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Now it's Quint's turn to give his thoughts on TERMINATOR SALVATION!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Going into TERMINATOR: SALVATION Monday night I was optimistic. I didn’t like a lot of the things I was hearing as they were filming… The idea of a giant Transformers-like terminator made me laugh. In fact, we got a report in from someone working on the film describing this “building tall” walking robot that snatches people up and I thought it was fan-made bullshit.
But I liked the casting, I liked the look of the film as we started seeing pictures and then, eventually, clips at Comic-Con and BNAT. By itself, the Harvester sequence with the aforementioned “building tall” robot is actually quite good and add on to that the iconography of the Hunter/Killer ships I was starting to get jazzed.
And listen. I hate Terminator 3. Hate it. It seemed to take the things James Cameron (smartly) cut out of Terminator 2 and expand upon them. I’m talking about the goofy shit, teaching Arnie to smile, etc. Talk to the hand, the ridiculous-ass glasses… sight gags. They went too far, had a lame villain, but decent action and an ending that promised the movie everybody has been waiting to see since 1984.
McG, I knew, could handle action. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, the action scenes in the CHARLIE’S ANGELS movies are easy to follow and well executed. He doesn’t tend to over-cut his action or get in so close you can’t tell what’s going on.
So, my exact words to Harry pre-screening was that I’m sure I’d like this movie more than I did TERMINATOR 3. And I did. Kind of.
The flick didn’t offend me, but it’s the kind of movie that lets the air out of the room in the first 2 minutes. Remember that feeling of the energy just dropping at the midnight screening of THE PHANTOM MENACE? The room is packed, the movie starts, trailers run, the 20th Century Fox logo and fanfare, opening scroll… and then the movie starts and something happens. It just feels off.
The opening credits of TERMINATOR: SALVATION felt that way to me. It was like a high school band trying to cover Led Zeppelin. You could see what they were trying to do, but the tempo was wrong and it felt like an imitation of the good shit you remember.
A lot of the blame for that rests on Danny Elfman’s shoulders. I don’t know what has happened to him in the last few years, but this is possibly his worst score. If he didn’t want to use Brad Fiedel’s Terminator themes and cues, that’s fine. But if you only source those familiar beats twice in a movie (one is the opening credits and the second time is at the end when the big cameo happens) you have to fill the rest of the movie with more than just noise, which is all Elfman does here.
But it’s not just Elfman setting the wrong tone at the beginning. They try to do a similar title scene to the first movie, following super-close up edges to the words that ultimately form the title. It just feels off.
But that’s the opening titles. Who cares about that? What matters is the film. Our first footage is in a death row cell in 2003 as Sam Worthington’s Marcus Wright is being propositioned by Cancera Bonham Carter (you know she has Cancer because she’s wearing a floppy cancer hat that doesn’t quite conceal her bald head). She wants his body. For science.
He’s a bad man and he lets her (and us) know that, signs the piece of paper with the Cyberdyne letterhead and then dies by lethal injection.
Now we’re in the future as there’s a raid on a SkyNet target, a series of above ground satellite dishes in the desert.
That first scene with Worthington and Carter has zero spark or charisma, but what’s even worse is the raid on the enemy target is just as lifeless. There’s a lack of drama to almost everything in this movie. It’s a film of moments that just happen without any lead-up or real conclusion. Shit just seems to happen, there are no peaks and valleys, no beats to the action or plot that feel thought out.
Connor’s introduction is that way. We see a bunch of choppers land in the desert and then one shot follows his chopper in as it carefully settles on a half-broken terminator. A pair of boots hit the ground and two bullets go into the terminator’s head, pan up and it’s Christian Bale as John Connor. You’ve seen the shot in the trailer and it works in the trailer because we’re not sitting there in the middle of the other action and just lazily watching a helicopter float to its mark.
In short, it’s intended as a moment, but it feels forced and a couple takes away from being what I’m sure they were wanting it to be.
When talking with friends after the screening I kept saying that Terminator: Salvation almost isn’t a movie. It feels like someone completed a real, well-shot movie and then they put the whole thing into a schizophrenic editing computer that haphazardly lifted moments or full scenes, leaving us with a movie that gets the point across, but is constantly jarring.
I can’t say anybody in the movie was horrible. Worthington is the main character (wrong choice) and he’s got enough natural charisma to breeze through the movie. He’s also the only character that apparently has any real arc. Both Kyle Reese and John Connor are in the exact same place at the end of the movie that they are at the beginning, as personalities.
So, mistake number one from the screenwriters. Why is Marcus the main character? They clearly couldn’t decide if they were going to follow Connor or Marcus and as a result Marcus gets a few cursory character building scenes and Connor stands around squinting like he’s trying to see the 3-D image pop out of the Magic Eye poster on the wall and just can’t get it to work.
The talk about Connor being this messiah, leader of the human uprising is all well and good, but if they wanted to go that angle then we honestly shouldn’t have seen him. He should have been the voice on the radio that inspires others. If they did it that way, then Kyle Reese could have been the main character.
Which would have been great because out of everybody in the movie Anton Yelchin knocks it out of the park. I never in a million years would have thought that his performance would be my favorite in this film, but the kid takes enough of Michael Biehn’s mannerisms (a lot of talking through his teeth) to make Kyle feel like the one we know without mimicking Biehn’s performance.
But instead Kyle is a plot device instead of a character and we have our lead split between two people, just enough so neither actually gets to be a character.
The rest of the cast, outside of Moon Bloodgood’s Blair, are just there to give us enough dialogue to get us to the next plot point. The biggest waste is Michael Ironside as the militaristic leader of the resistance and boy does he hate that John Connor! He grumbles about him a couple of times in the submarine that houses the resistance’s top minds so you know he seriously doesn't like that dude.
The effects are fine. You can tell money was spent and some fine artists stepped up and delivered. It’s easy to turn the mind off and enjoy the Harvester sequence, but that feels like an island in the movie, one of the only times when it feels like they cared about pacing and how things might cut together.
The much talked about Arnold cameo is pretty neat, but feels tacked on. There was a kid at our screening that shouted out, “Oh, it’s the guy from the other movies…” when CG Arnold steps into frame. Completely innocently, mind you. He wasn’t making a joke. And when he did that I felt like he vocalized exactly what McG and the studio execs had going through their minds when they came up with this. They heard that reaction going on in every audience member’s inner monologue and started salivating.
As a moment, yeah, it makes complete sense that Arnold’s there and I have no problem at all with the cameo. I just wish they had more time to develop it and actually made it part of the finale instead of “Oh, my God! It’s Schwarzenegger! Look, another shot of him, that looks… oh, his face is blown off now…” I realize they didn’t have the time to do that (and probably not the money that would cost to pull off), but that doesn’t change the fact that it feels tacked on as it stands.
Ultimately this film feels like it was two or three drafts away from being ready to shoot. Everything is so surface and on the nose and the narrative doesn’t seem to have a real driving force. It’s like they set up a ton of options, but couldn’t decide what to do. They could follow Kyle Reese through the wastelands with this lost man, Marcus, who is trying to find redemption, building on that dynamic (which admittedly has one or two decent scenes, like the much ballyhooed shotgun strap scene) or follow John Connor as he struggles against those in charge of the rebellion, growing from foot soldier to leader through his knowledge of the war and ability to inspire those around him. If they had decided to go one way or the other this would have been a much stronger movie. But they don't, they wanted to go for both options. It doesn't work. Trying to cram all that into one movie only makes the whole thing a mess.
Terminator Salvation is not trainwreck bad, but it’s lifeless and mediocre, which is almost worse.
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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But you're waaay out of line!!
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I thought T3 was shit, but this had a pretty damn cool story.
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But can't hold a candle to the first two, but OF COURSE it can't, Cameron's one of our greatest filmmakers. The movie is worth seeing for the action scenes alone, they're out of this world and it has enough story to carry it through. I love the post apolalyptic landscape and all the nods to the other movies were fun. Good flick, not as epic as I would've liked, but good regardless.
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James Cameron is laughing, as he prepares to unleash Avatar on a world pummelled by shit summer blockbusters.
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man can Bale deliver a monotone performance...can he go away now?!?!?once again upstaged by the costumes/SFX....
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Take Bale as your savior instead of saying blasphemy against him.
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In your face!
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"A high school band covering Led Zeppelin" and the whole thing about Bale's look being that of a man trying to stare at one of those 3d image posters.
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O shit, wrong movie.
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laugh with those two too...
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T4 yet?
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its depressing how people just accept mediocrity. No wonder studios get away with putting shit out like this, they'll still make their money, and they'll continue to put out mediocre films if people continue to go. so people don't go!
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seems to be mindless but well executed action (ie NOT Transformers or anything by Sommers). Im fine with mindless action as long as its well exectuted (i liked Predator/Aliens/300). SUre, it looks like the humanity is lacking, but then i always felt like T2 was a bit too human. I'm thinking a may enjoy this.
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McG, born Joseph McGinty, was found dead today in West Hollywood aged 54 after a tragic accident at a skatepark while he was attempting to do BMX tricks. Although he found early success directing music videos for men with soul patches and frosted tips which he parlayed into the stupid but fun Charlie's Angels, in later life McG decided he was some kind of auteur and after aborted attempts to make a Superman movie he was too chickenshit to get on a plane to make (no seriously, I'm not making this up) and Hot Wheels: The Motion Picture he directed the most forgettable ham handed sports movie in recent memory that made Friday Night Lights look like the work of Bresson. In a last ditch attempt to be a director who gets paid a lot of money, he conned everyone into thinking he could make a Terminator film, a film notable for its utter shittiness and for tying in the Terminator mythos with Pizza Hut and mute token minority children (in his biography, McG would assert that it was a clever cinematic reference to the girl in Jurassic Park 2 who does the gymnastics to kill a raptor, a moment he described as "when I saw cinema as truth, as an intense divine rapture"). Following the 69% boxoffice dropoff the second weekend for Terminator Salvation as word spread of its shittiness, Christian Bale was found weeping, determined to never again work with someone who got their start directing videos for Smashmouth. After failed attempts to get to the screen such not very loved properties as "Fastlane: The Motion Picture" and "The OC: Imax Experience" and "Sectaurs: Salvation" McG attempted to return to music videos, not realizing that budgets for such are now about $2000 and involves shooting ironic douchebags on cellphones. Sadly, perhaps too old to BMX, he tragically died Wednesday. He is survived by his family, but had no wife, although he did tell sources that during the making of Charlie's Angels Drew Barrymore's boob brushed against him twice, and he had found some killer fake nudes of Lucy Liu on AOL.
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We have a great franchise that's now sliding into the gutter. What was once great Sci-Fi is now an expensive mess. Sounds like it's going to need it's OWN re-boot after this... Maybe JC will come back and re-claim his property...
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You could definitely get some pleasure out of the bang on the screen, but a word of warning... There's only one action scene I think was pulled off, the Harvester sequence. The final fight is cut to shit and makes no sense, but it does have one or two cool moments. I suppose any scene with a robot beating the shit out of someone has to have at least one or two cool moments. It's written somewhere. But don't expect this to be a summer action thrill-a-minute.
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which can't hurt things.
Good review Quinto, better than H's -
In that it's intelligent, well considered and free of juvenile emotion. Well done Quint.
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People kept saying the action was good, but i hate senseless or pointless fights, like the Neo Smith fight in Reloaded. If its shit like that I will pass, i dont care how cool it looks. I was thinking maybe it was just a tight action movie with no time for deep characters, which is cool with me.
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I really wanted this to be a good movie and yet everyone is throwing the words 'average' and 'mediocre". I love Terminator and I think Christian Bale is a good actor. This is heartbreaking.
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Not because it was bad - actually it was damn good - but because I have such Terminator Salvation fatigue after today.
Still, Quint's reviews are always the best on here. Good show. -
I definitely wouldn't call it a tight action movie with no characterization, but you should definitely make up your own mind about it. If you think you may like it, go watch it. I just wouldn't hurry. heh.
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kind of thought it would have played out as you say, however I still cant wait to see it. Bring on giant robots.
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May 21, 2009 4:11:32 AM CDT
i thought it was pretty badass even with stuff missing from orig
by beast2121
Im still trying to find someone with an answer for the badass water terminator that comes up behind john conner in the original trailer and where it was in the movie.
I like most people were stoked as hell for this movie and they ran one of the best marketing/ trailer series ive seen. But i agree with Quint that there were a lot of action scenes that just felt jumbled together. But oh well I still thought it was awesome and I thought Sam worthington was a good choice and was badass for the part but I dont have a man crush on kyle reeses character like the reviews on this site seem to have. The beginning didnt start off with the bang it needed for sure, and the ending definately ended on a dud with the choppers flying into the distance and in 15 seconds reminding everyone that even after talking about the final battle with skynet, world skynet was still powerful and thered be another sequel in two years. -
that's what I'm getting. not that the Marcus-centric storyline would have worked, but expanding a Connor cameo into a full role might have been the wrong time to do. Probably when Connor was just a cameo they had that Marcus becomes Connor ending.
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is pretty much right on. I pretty much thought - script - D; Action - B+; Acting - C-.
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It was poor. I can't be bothered to point out all the retarded logic holes in it, but there are millions of them. It just feels like it was written by people who didn't pay attention to Terminator 1 & 2.
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is NOTHING like Aliens or Predator.
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May 21, 2009 4:35:20 AM CDT
I wonder how T2 would fair if it were released today...
by righteousbrother
Would us Fanboys be screaming about:
Annoying Kid
New kind touchy feely Terminator
Terminator standing on one leg
'Why do you cry'
The fact that the T1000 disapears for about 40 mins in the film, so the rest of the characters can get on with character development/plot.
The T1000 getting Sarah Connor to 'Call John' - when he can perfectly mimic other humans.
The lame way in which he's finally destroyed.
The Thumbs up at the end.
I love T2 - but lets be reasonable here, it does have its faults.
It seems to me that we examine every single minutae and criticise it, but let a lot of films from our youth off the hook.
Maybe the next generation of film geeks will hail this film as a classic. Who knows?
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...I assume you're also pulling for Stephen Hawking to take down Usain Bolt, right?
I actually feel bad saying "I told you so" to anybody in this case. -
For some reason this film reminded me of Bale's other film 'Reign of Fire'. I WANT to like that film, it's just missing something... a lot of something. This movie needed to be written better and directed by a visionary. Unfortunately there are very few visionaries allowed to direct big screen films these days.
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...in the future there are purple lazers and large tank HKs. I know this because I watched the first 2 films. Apparently the creators of Salvation didn't.
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It would be rated Pg-13 and would have been seen as hokey, unintentionally hilarious, and disposable. But since its so family friendly, it would do well with the Disney crowd. It would probably do well, but it wouldn't be a blockbuster; just another summer movie.
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Bale and Worthington both do great jobs acting like badasses. Isn't that all that matters?
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Cause that's the only thing that's getting me into the theater this weekend. I have never been excited at all about this movie but I really want to see how well they do the Arnold scene. Is it Benjamin Button good, like putting Brad Pitt's face on a midget? Or is it like that episode of the Sopranos where they tried to put Tony's mom's head on some other woman's body?
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Must see... Amulet.. before eternal darkness..... In all seriousness though. I'm losing that love of film I used to have. Any of you guy experience this? You just don't really care anymore, your not jazzed to see anything that coming out or in development (except for Quint's The Home), and you are forcing yourself to see these new films, when really,you just don't care to see them but you feel obligated to do so, so you have something to talk about among your cinephile friends, and your going to sites like this hoping to read something that just juices your desire to see something new, and it's just not there anymore- not like it was... What the fuck is happening to me? I bet death is coming. Dracula still wants the Amulet though. So part of me is still alive.
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The T-1000 asks Sarah to "Call John" because he is malfunctioning after the frozen/break apart/back together. This is explained better in the Director's Cut, which i assume you've watched because that version is the one with the Terminator Smile, and the "40 minutes of character development time" none of which is the teartical version of T2 which is a lean, mean, monster of a movie, thats pretty much close to the perfect action movie, imo.
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Sums up my feelings almost exactly.
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Damn you to hell!
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all this talk about T2 being PG-13 if released today, is TOTAL BULLSHIT. 1. Knife in the mouth of the step dad, blood runs down knife. 2. T-1000 stabs a dude in the eye and he wriggles on the end of it for a good 5 seconds. 3. Arnie cuts the skin off his arm revealing a bloody metal skeleton. 4. Dyson getting shot to shit.
none of those moments would qualify for a PG-13 movie today. -
Congratulations, we all know that you hate T2, but christ man, move the fuck on. Do you really have to come into every Terminator talkback and bash it? We get it, you apparently don't like good action movies and/or James Cameron, but I think I speak for everyone here at AICN when I say no one gives a shit. I mean fuck man, its like you have a personal grudge against it. Its just a movie, and a twenty year old one at that. Get over it.
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.... oh well there is always more star trek
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.....cuz he aint wearing Hockey Pants!!!!!
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Yep, I've seen the Directors Cut, forgotten about the malfunction part. So thanks for pointing that out. I love T2 and The Terminator. But I still think that if it were released today, there would be people out there that would look for any excuse to tear it apart. I haven't seen Terminator Salvation yet, so I might hate it, but I'm going to give it a chance. Have you seen it?
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...and yet you still preferred it to T3? Silly man.
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May 21, 2009 5:52:25 AM CDT
Yes, today's audience would tear Terminator 2 to shreds.
by derlanghaarige
But it's not the movie's fault. It's just what today's audiences do. They just hate everything. Not just the bad movies. If they can't hate it (or at least pretend on message boards that they do), they are not happy.
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Point taken, but in the Uk the franchise has been going this way from day 1.
T1 = 18 certificate
T2 = 15 certificate
T3 = 12 ceetificate -
if it was released today. Because it's GOOD FILMMAKING. Can people no longer recognise the difference between good and bad filmmaking? It's not rocket science people.
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I'm not going to see T4. I'll maybe catch it on DVD.
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there are people out there, that would make it their mission to find flaws (no matter how minor) and tear it to shreds. That's just what certain geeks do nowadays.
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Termaintor 2 was an 18 certicate when it hit video in 1992, i have the VHS to prove it. When released it was a 15. The point being, is in the states the movie was a hard R when it first came out, by todays standards, its still an R, just not a hard one... but defaintly not a PG-13. In my opinion the lack of violence hurt both T3 and now Salvation, because Terminator was at it's heart a grindhouse movie with an A class director. Violence is a heart of this franchise, it's about murdering, cold blooded, killing robots... somehow we've got to a place where that's now marketable to children... who wear terminator faces and metal gloves... beat's me...
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correction, i ment, when it was re-released on video/DVD it was a 15.
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May 21, 2009 6:13:23 AM CDT
Aside from TREK and UP, it's a bad summer of movies
by the gospel according to bastardface
... And I'll be avoiding TERMINATOR SALVATION.
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i get it now
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I'm bloody annoyed by this
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one more thing, when it was released in the UK on video as a 15, they cut the movie, most of the videos/DVD's in the UK are still cut to get a 15 in the UK, they always cut the knife in the eye scene. I think the blu ray release was the first time the movie was uncut with a 15 rating.
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either just shut the fuck up, or just get over it. As you said we all get it, we all know how much he hates Cameron, and the serious personal vendetta he has against him...as well as good action sci fi movies, logic, fact, reason, anything intelligent etc...
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fuck..he's like a stuck record beating a dead horse...
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willing to give it a chance, but the bad reviews are sapping my will.....
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May 21, 2009 6:21:50 AM CDT
Hell...............the summers are always disappointing aren't t
by righteousbrother
I thought last summer was going to be the summer to end all summers.
What did we have?
Iron Man - very good
Hulk - hmmmm...ok
Indy - I enjoyed, a lot hated
TDK - awesome
Can't remember the rest. -
throw.yourself.in.front.of.a.train.
i can tolerate "had problems with". maybe even "didn't meet my expectations" but "hated" ? Dude, go watch Batman & Robin again, get some fucking perspective on the situation at hand here. -
...and save our summer!
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may have lead me to insult you without reason.
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"Can people no longer recognise the difference between good and bad filmmaking?" How ironic that YOU of all people would say this. Stand in front of a mirror and keep saying it until you realize that T2 was mediocre at best. It shouldn't take too long. Through you will be blinking through the tears of painful realization, you will make it through, and you will be a better, wiser, more intelligent man because of it. Now, go, kwizatzhaderach, and embrace thine destiny. Also: Hastla La Vista, Baaaaybeeeee! HAHAHAHAHA!!! OMG!!! Thats exactly what I need in my Family Friendly Robodaddy films -- more comic relief! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! NO PROBLEMO!!! OMG!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Thank Goodness. And neither are Cameron who has decided I guess to collect Beanie Babies instead of make classic SciFi. Nothing wrong with T3. Those are quibbles. Plenty wrong with T4. Buyer's remorse? Be careful what you wish for.
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Completely agree. My passion for film has been hampered recently...at least we have lots of old stuff that's great.
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You didn;t like the content of T2. I'm talking about the actual form of the movie. But I guess you probably don't even know what that is.
Enjoy your McG Terminator movie. You got the Terminator movie you deserved. -
Check out Moriarty's interview with McG on HitFix.com. McG shows once and for all that he does not grasp what the Terminator mythos is all about.
But hey, we have Avatar to look forward to. -
Ther eis no difference between the attitudes of the audiences today and back in 1991 when T2 was released. What happesn is that today there's more places to vent your opinions, positive or negative, about a movie, thanks to the ploriferation of the internet. That«s jsut it, there's more foruns for you to say your piece. This gives the illusion that audiences today are more "nickpicking". not so. Bascially, what the inernet allows is the post-movie viewing pub talk to be witnessed by many many others.But i would say that audiences do have reasons to be more disapointed about the actual state of moviemaking. It's not that 1991 was some soort of nirvana, there was lots of shitmade back then, but it seems that today the hack movies are more cynical and they don't even bother to try to pretend they are good anymore. It doesn't happen always, but it's happening more and more. Audiences do have valid reasons to be disastified.
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... how underrated T3 really is. And to LaserPants, no, it's not better then T2. Deal with it.
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Just because Wolverine and McG-T4 are bad movies do not another bad movie into a good make. This summer is absolute shit. Only ray of hope for the summer is Public Enemies, i'm affraid, and that's because The Road will only be released in October and who knows when Moon will be released theatrically, if ever.
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Wolverine. Terminator. Transformers (probably). We're seeing a trend here.
Summer 2009 seems to be shaping up as the year that "Lifeless and Mediocre" becomes a cliche.
Hell, I'd add the big television season finales to that. Lost, Fringe, House, etc. The finales were all "Lifeless and Mediocre".
Once is a fluke. Twice is a coincidence. This many times and we've got ourselves a trend.
What's going on? Why has the air been let out of Hollywood's tires this particular summer? Anybody got any theories? -
It wasn't funny the first time either.
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Couldn't have a day at AICN without one could we? I appreciate the perspective but conflating a Cameron-less Terminator prequel with the return of Star Wars is an epic reach.
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May 21, 2009 7:31:39 AM CDT
Why the fuck are chips in the head? Center chest safer.
by evilwizardglick
I'm so god damned sick of chips in the robotic head. It is the most stupid and pointless place to place them. Center chest behind the rib cage is much safer.
I know it makes it easier to do the double tap kill shot scene.
Sadly when our robot masters need killing their chips will be located in much more logical locations thus resulting in the deaths of anyone who ever watched a Terminator movie. -
In my previous post I meant, 'Indy I enjoyed, a lot hated. TDK - AWESOME!
Sorry, if my post wasn't clear, let me re-iterate LOVED TDK. FUCKING LOVED TDK!
Oh, and it's Grammar, not Grammer if you want to be pedantic. -
May 21, 2009 7:35:06 AM CDT
AsimovLives, Yep trek sucked. Seen Twinks vs Bears Trek comparis
by evilwizardglick
Probably can be googled. Interesting take on the movie.
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Are we now up to one million repetitive, useless comments about Terminator 2? Do we win some sort of prize as a shitty website community if that happens?
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...How Christian Bale has been telling us all in interviews, how good the Terminator 4 script needed to be. I haven't read one single review that doesnt make a big deal of pointing out, that there is no character development whatsoever in this sorry attempt to make a good movie. I havent seen it yet, but Im pretty sure I wont like. I do have an open mind though.
There was one talkbacker who pointed out that he is beginning to not care about all the new movies coming out. This I can only nod to. Movies are not film making anymore but money making. How to do the least amount of work and get the most money out of people is a religion which many people practice. Not that it is wrong to make money, but film making used to be an art form. And a well executed action movie like Raiders, Aliens, Predator and the 2 terminator films isnt just mindless action movies. They are art movies in their own right, because they fucking WORK. Its not nostalgia speaking here, its common sense. A good action movie isnt just stuff being blown up. Die Hard can tell us this...
The only thing nowadays that I really look forward to with the same enthusiasm are tv series. The Wire can hold my attention way better than any new hollywood-by-the-numbers crap action movie, that seem to think its audiens are retarded mongoloids only waiting for shit to blow up. The new Transformers trailer worries me.. There isnt a single line of dialogue! When do the film makers get, that action happening to people we dont care about, are boring and pointless?
Im from Denmark so spare me any grammer lessons. -
since 1984?" Uh, not me. Never cared. Thought the original gave us all we needed of the post-Judgement Day world. In fact, I happened to catch "The Terminator" on cable last night, and it just reinforced that impression - all you need is right there. That's why I don't really care about this film - Harry's hilarious pan yesterday made me the most curious I've been about it to date, although even that brief rush of interest has now subsided. I'm willing to bet that for all of the digital fireworks there isn't one single scene that has the energy and spirit of the original.
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it would still be regarded as a masterpiece. Don't kid yourself. Rock solid storytelling, character, and action all the way through. And more importantly, the underlying themes resonate, which is what truly gives a movie lasting power. In fact, since the blockbuster has become such a degraded currency nowadays, T2 would probably be even more appreciated.And Laserpants, give it up pal. You were once vaguely amusing, now you're just making a complete tit of yourself.
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If you are too young to have experienced it in theatres to know all the reasons why that's your own damn problem.
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saw the trailer for it with Predator 2 (I think) When they show the bit with the T1000 morphing into the police helicopter, my brain couldn't process what I was seeing.
If it was released today there'd still be haters though, that's just the culture we live in today. -
This movie sounds a lot like Transformers in that it has great action and weak character development. Since all I really want out of this film is to see future soldiers shooting robots up and I'm not interested in "Shakespeare", sign me up!
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My expectations are rising slightly.
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Shit is getting old. I wish I could stab you morons.
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T2 will never be re-rated because the director would have to resubmit it to the MPAA. Cameron wouldnt do that! you are wasting everyone's time by showing what a fucking idiot u are! if they rated psycho today it'd be PG! If Jaws came out today it'd be PG13. if sixteen candles came out today...BLAH BLAH BLAH shut the fuck up and swallow MCG's cock!
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will WILL still be talking about the first two films and their greatness in 2029. hopefully by then you will grown the fuck up and break thru those daddy issues!
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And you know it, internet nerds be damned this will make cash since reviews seem to mean shit to the general aud.
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I agree with you. It seems like most of these big budget action films are just trying to give us bigger explosions. Last year was a horrible year for movies. Even the contenders for "best picture" wouldn't have been considered 10 years ago. It's much like the current state of music...when it is all driven by dollar signs and corporate interests, there is very little room for true artistry. As a result, even the average stuff is hailed as brilliant. Incidentally, I watched the second half of T3 on AMC last night. First time since I saw it in the theaters. That movie sucks! I really didn't remember anything but the ending, from my first viewing. The FX look like something from a SciFi Channel Original and the acting is right on par, too.
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the great insults towards that retard laserpants. He can never be insulted enough lol. And no Kwis im afraid in repeated challenges to him, he has demonstrated that he has 100% fuckall film knowledge, so he could never understand form....
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what the fuck do you think is going to happen? obviously this movie is going to suck. as long as it's watchable it's gonna make coin. it doesn't have to make sense
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turdontherun...always one of the most intelligent talkbackers...All you guys are in one word... professional
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I am looking forward to "Up"...but then a big drop off.
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Man what a piece of shit that movie was. You know it's bad, when even though I saw it when it first came out, I couldnt remember a single scene from it...even the so-called "ballsy" ending. Give me T1 or T2 anyday with the relatively happy endings. Cameron will always be the Terminator franchise in my mind (and most logical people). Oh...and who the fuck thought Nick Stahl would be a good John Connor? Sad though, cause Bale wasn't much better of a choice. Still think Eddie Furlong was the best, he never came off as annoying to me, and he had some pretty badass moments. ATM theft anyone?
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"...How Christian Bale has been telling us all in interviews, how good the Terminator 4 script needed to be"It is funny; and sad, he had a great streak running. When he had his meltdown my hopes for this film went down, I'll admit, but that's another compliment to Bale; figured if he wasn't enjoying himself it was because he knew he'd gotten himself into a shit film. Why the fuck didn't he watch Charlie's Angels before signing away a large chunk of his credibility to someone who had no business touching this franchise? Just a shame, all around.
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wanted a great script first... Bale must have been drunk when he signed off on the final T4 script because the script is extremely poor.
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Eh?
I read somewhere it was scene with Bryce Howard, anyone who saw the movie confirm it? -
And would have done a great score for a future war, irrespective of the quality of the rest of the movie. McG's use of Danny Elfman instead just seems bone-crushingly stupid. Brad Fiedel was available, I'm pretty sure. What the hell?Frickin' Danny Elfman. I kind of feel about him the way Seth McFarlane does, at least according to the "Blue Harvest" episode of Family Guy.
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The worst bit for me, is when you see future John Connor played by Nick Stahl, he just looks terrible.
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is he serious? is he joking? is he gay? is he straight? does he hate you? does he love you?
YYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSS -
I hated the T-X and the script was pretty lame, but the scene with Arnold riding the tow truck is still one of my favorite ever. No real use of CGI, just a stuntman doing his thing.
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With Mori gone, Quint is the only guy I can trust for a non-b.s review.. Reese in T4 was damn near note-perfect. If they make thier kajillion dollars off this, I would love to see Anton for another round.
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unfortunately, it doesn't make them or their opinions in any way more relevant.
that being said, this movie blows. WHO'S WITH ME??!?! -
I'll give it that, and that tow truck scene is good - but the rest of it was pretty unnecessary.
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...all too well. It was so painful. I was as geeked up as anyone could be to see TPM, waited in line, the whole bit. Then we get this awkward scene, something's not right, who are these bland people, something's not right, pidgin English??, something's not right...there were a lot of interesting moments in the film that looked like they would almost pry the wreckage out of the dirt, but it never happened. That awful feeling of "oh no" lasted all the way to the end. It was heartbreaking.
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Who would make the leader of the resistance (John Connor) Nick Stahl? Utterly ridiculous. And I agree future Nick Stahl is even more of a joke. Do you see what you've done Cameron? By giving away your franchise you automatically doomed it, cause no one could ever match the greatness that is James Cameron!
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Don't worry, it's in good hands.
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was it, you know, PROFESSIONAL?
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but I have to hand it to him, I felt like I was watching a young Michael Biehn, aside from the teeth-talking, he mastered some very subtle Biehn mannerisms and as said, he knocked it out of the park bigtime. Yelchin as Biehn is the ONLY likeable character and believable performance in this film. Worthington really dropped his stock in this film, and it's his own fault, because he played this character CORNY AS SHIT from start to finish. From the first moment I saw him on screen saying 'so this is what death tastes like' in a fucking Clint Eastwood voice, I knew I was in for a corny ride.
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That joke just never gets old, not even after the 1,000,000th usage.
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Is dead. We probably all knew that, but one can only hope that along with all the shit running down our throats comes a sweet strawberry. Yes very poetic I know...
This summer, as usual, it's Pixar to the rescue. Up is going to dominate T4 and Wolverine both, because they were made fairly quickly and with no real love, other than: "What do the public might want? They are use to getting shit, so lets give them some more". The Director of Wolverine were a better pick than McG, but to many cooks will ruin the food as they say. The same thing happened with Indy, where it was obvious from the get go that Lucas were putting his fat finger everywhere even if it wasnt needed.
The Road Im looking forward to.. It looks interesting and fresh. We need more post-apocalyptic movies, because it is a good background for drama. If the world is interesting and feels dangerous, then action and explosions arent constantly needed. This has been proven by George A. Romero. -
It's getting better reviews across the pond. Maybe if McG had made The Terminators muslims you yanks would have dug it more ;)
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...because the one I saw last night, Terminator Salvation, was quite good... I loved it and enjoyed every minute of the ride... I don't understand the mixed reviews on this one... I loved the action, the gritty-ness and apocalyptic feel... and I'm glad they left out the campy-ness of the second movie... Go see it!
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If I were to make a Terminator movie, he would be the first I would approach. Mainly to get him to make the movie instead of me, because I would probably just make a mess out of it...
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Dear Laserpants,
I understand you feed off the attention, have awful taste in movies, and love stirring people up, but T2 is universally praised as, not only one of the greatest sequels of all time, but one of the greatest action movies of all time - your opinion and the opinions of the three people that agree with you don't mean shit. That's like saying "Casablanca" or "The Godfather, Part II" is a shitty movie. You can take all the sci-fi and action out of T2 and it would still be an interesting movie. It would be a totally different genre, but it retain it's themes and story. That is what makes a good movie, regardless of whether you like the themes and story, or not.
T2 has more than one use of the word 'fuck', so it would still be rated R today, what don't you understand about that? I don't care really about the rating, but you are seriously mentally handicapped if you can not grasp this simple simple concept. If you are seriously retarded or something, its okay, I can understand that, and I apologize for giving you such a hard time about it.
Regards,
Captain Howdy -
Oh, how I long for the days of Batman and Robin, Star Trek: Insurrection and Lost in Space, nowadays what do we have? Iron Man, The Dark Knight and Star Trek.
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Hemdale, who financed The Terminator, acknowledged that James Cameron's movie drew from material from Ellison's two Outer Limits episodes: Soldier and Demon with a Glass Hand.
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don't kid yourself - TDK had almost universal acclaim as well, with some gripes, but very few dispute its greatness. T2 is still talked about TODAY, not through the lens of adolescent kids as the detractors always say: Here, Now. Its on TV ad infinitum, and people still think its a great movie. The lunatic fringe aside, T2 would have thought of just as highly today
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one mississippi... two mississippi... three mississippi...
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Fair point.
But I dont recall Star Trek: Insurrection and Lost in Space being BIG movie spectacles?
I DO recall Batman and Robin getting a fair bit of attention on its release though, but it is still a mind blowingly bad movie...
What I meant was that there were a time where that would come one or two really big movies out that would cause a stir. Not four every month of the year, one more horrific than the other. That being said, theres alot of terrible movies from the 90's. Not every movie can be a Jurassic Park or Terminator 2 of course...
And there is still very good movies being made. Gran Torino, Milk, The Wrestler and Slumdog Millionaire to name a few... But they are hardly what we would call The Big Summer Blockbuster.
The Dark Knight had alot of hype. Not all of it can be justified, but that probably is a matter of taste... Iron Man was okay, but nothing in realm of Hellboy 2. Star Trek just sucked big time. Beam me far far away please -
more or less what i expected...some decent action, but overall a forgettable movie experience that won't resonant past the exit doors of the theater...
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I think Iron Man was more than okay: I think it was a superb example of how to make an enjoyable summer blockbuster movie.
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more than my somewhat jokey response required. I thought The Dark Knight was phenomenal and really enjoyed Star Trek. I guess I'm talking about genre movies more than Milk's and Slumdogs. If I had a list of bullet proof genre movies, off the top of my head (I'm at work right now) would be; The Good the Bad and the Ugly, The Empire Strikes Back,
Raiders of the lost Ark, Aliens, The Terminator, Robocop.
I thought Hellboy 2 was ok, but not great, especially after reading all the raves on here. I shall give it another go. -
hes talks ignorant shit and then runs.
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that is hating on this flick?
Empire gave it 4 stars!
I read Harry's review yesterday & had a knee jerk "fuck you, McG" but the more I hear, the more I think he's just pissed he didn't get his cock sucked by the studio.... -
When a reviewer pisses and moans about a fucking opening credit scene, he obviously has already made up his mind no matter how objective he may claim his opinion is. Most detractors already went into this film deciding it was mediocre so it's no surprise that's what they think of the film after the fact. Now, it's their right to do so but let's quit acting like they were ever going to give this film a chance. The very fact that McG went in his own direction was enough to label him and this endeavor a failure, so why don't people just stick to their precious T1 and T2 and admit that nothing short of a Cameron/Arnie wankfest would please them.
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His batman sucked ass and he doesn't look or sound promising in T4.
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'sucked ass'?? Fuck me, what does that even mean?
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May 21, 2009 10:04:05 AM CDT
T2 would have taken some serious hits if released today
by thelastcleric
Furlong's performance would have pissed off the geek masses (It is easily the weakest aspect of the film) and Arnie's thumbs up at the end as he melts away would have been much-maligned. "Hasta La Vista, Baby." wouldn't have gone over too well with the poser-elite either. I love T2 but I also know how this shit plays out on the glorious, everybody's-a-critic-interweb.
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I don't know where you're getting your info from, plant *cough*, but there are a lot of bad reviews for it on RT. So you see one good one and think everyone here is fucked in the head, *cough* plant *cough*, reallY? if you would pay attention to the fucking site you would know the studio DID try to SUCK HARRY's cock and he still panned the flick. I'm not trying to overtly defend Harry but dude at least get your facts straight before spewing nonsensical bullshit.
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Christian Bale is like Keeanu Reeves better acting older brother in Batman. But not much better. Figure than one out.
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Hands-fucking-down! Terminator Salvation is a fucking joke. I never thought in amillion years that I'd agree with the tubby ginger but he's right....
FUCK THIS MOVIE!!!!
And I was looking forward to it too. Stayed positive right up until the lights dimmed. Fuck Brancato and Ferris for thier POS scipt... I want my fucking 2hrs back cocksuckers. -
I haven't seen Terminator: Savlation yet,
Better or worse than Wolverine?
(I hated Wolverine) -
Despite not being a Trek fan Abrams pulled his head out of his ass and delivered with the CHARACTERS and script being at the forefront of his mind throughout the process. Quint's interview clearly shows why he won out. He was like 'effects schemecks, leave it to ILM' which was totally the right move. Directors fucking DIRECT actors!! McG was like a pussy with Bale, you could tell that from the rant clip. McG should have been in his face every day telling him to up his game, but he let Bale run himself into the ground. Damn it. Another franchise screwed.
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I actually enjoyed the film but it is redundant as hell and adds absolutely nothing to the mythology (save the coming of Judgment Day) where by contrast T4 adds a number of interesting components, including John Conner using his mother’s tapes as a divining rod for the future (and clearly becoming distraught as they come to an end) and his fledgling support among the human remnants. T4 is far away a better flick and a much more relevant one.
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I've just watched the trailer again, it can't be that bad can it?
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There! I said it and you all know it to be true.
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I loved the film and while I can understand that not everyone does, all this talk of it as a "steaming pile of shit", etc. etc. is just ridiculous. The action alone is worth watching because unlike just about every other director out there, McG actually shoots his action with a steady hand, a great sense of pacing, and he keeps things intense without letting any of the action overstay it's welcome. No shaky cam bullshit and incoherent shots.
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so terminator is the piece of shit everyone thought it would be - so what?
the real question is why aicn has noone on the cote d'azur covering cannes (interesting movies, you know?). -
That documentary does a good job at holding up a mirror to the internet community at large and demonstrating just how nasty and hyperbolic we have become. When terms like "cocksucker" are getting tossed around over a summer sci fi flick, it's safe to say perspective has been lost. There were plenty of critics back in the day who thought T2 was a big, goofy summer action flick that was overtly reliant upon special effects. Fast forward to present day and T2 is treated like Citizen Kane.
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Skynet sends terminators back in time to kill McG and prevent Terminator 4 from happening.
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I think Star Trek's achievement is that Abrams shot a good, not great, movie from a terrible script. I think the movie works, and is very re-watchable, because you like the characters and their interactions so much. I saw it twice and the scene where Kirk tells Spock he's going to transport on the enemy ship with him and then smacks him on the chest, still got a laugh out of me. Knock Abrams all you want for his shaky-cam action scenes, and that did get annoying, but at least he knows how to pull a good charismatic performance out of an actor, unlike McG apparently.
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You really liked the pacing? Really? That was the weakest part IMO. Everything felt rushed so they could get to the next explosion. I agree that McG at least stays steady during action (which i love), but his stuff was so repetitive. how many helicopter crashes does one movie need?!
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Finally some perspective.
I'll give the movie a shot, if its no good, then no big deal, I've still got the original Terminator. -
And was severely dissapointed. I went in under the impression that this would be a Terminator Movie, not the Matrix Reloaded. They built this movie like they were already filming the sequel. Which of course they are not, and with the way things played out in the movie I am not sure even what the hell the plot was???!?! I take it to be kinda like "This is how john connor gets his scar". Type of thing. Only wish they had the balls to give us the movie we wanted with Skynet, and the time travel machines. Overall 6/10 I rate it worse then Terminator 3.
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As the reviewer says:
"It’s a film of moments that just happen without any lead-up or real conclusion."
However, I haven't seen it yet, so I can't give a verdict. My hunch is that I'll like it, despite flaws. -
You really are reaching here buddy, Total Film is about a reliable source of quality film journalism as that other leading UK media establishment, The Sun. Yeah, I loved it 5 stars all the way by "Paul Ross"
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furlong is supposed to be annoying in the beginning. hes not yet hardcore. he hasnt been training like his mom has. he thought she was crazy. he's just being a normal teen from the 90s
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the next in that series got progressively better. Let it be so with this Terminator series.
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Can we look forward to something with soul and verve, such as Transformers 2. Megan Fox. Megan Fox. Jizz my pants. Megan Fox.
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"And listen. I hate Terminator 3. Hate it. "
Geeze, how does one hate T3. That movie was better then T2. Mostow had the balls to end the film the way T2 should have ended.
I have no faith in McG, but I'd be much more excited about T4 if Mostow was at the helm. -
May 21, 2009 11:04:07 AM CDT
And you can all fuck off. Phantom Menace owned my ass.
by alucardvsdracula
And still does. Painful. Very, very painful.
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Easily the worst movie I had seen this year. And I walked in hoping to find an enjoyable, but generic action film. It didn't even hit those expectations. Nothing was on a large scale (SO obvious they're holding shit back for another movie), character relationships made no sense, there was ZERO depth to the characters, Helena Bonham Carter was outlandishly wasted, the acting was all around AWFUL (even Bale, who's my favorite actor) though that may be because of some of the dismal writing. What a shit film. Fuck you, McG.
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May 21, 2009 11:09:26 AM CDT
T3 ending was the best thing in the entire franchise.
by alucardvsdracula
Yep. It's true. The nuke the fucking world to smithereens was ace. You can't top that. You just fucking can't. What? Fuck off you can't. No way. Not ever. You can't. It's a proven scientific fact. Okay wiseguy: T1 4.5/5. T2 4/5. T3 2/5 (with best ending EVER). T4 2.5/5. So there you have it, amidst the law of diminishing returns (again we're talking fucking science here so fuck off) the nuke scene at the end of T3 is the best thing of all time, ever. Fact. Mouth dry. Must have titties. Need titties.
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At least the kid seems to have watched the first one, but these kids these days still need to get EDUCATED. They need to watch Predator and Total Recall and Conan until they know the name AHNOLD!!!
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Born 1947 to parents Jeff and Stephen Carter she had her first starring role in Michael Mann's Miami Vice Movie (1984). After that (aged 14) she made a shit load of period movies and is quoted as saying "I had to stop making them in the end 'cause there's only so much blood in me fanny." After retiring from the motion picture industry in 1996 she met Tim Burton in a hot air balloon whilst location scouting for Planet of the Apes (1962). After realising that they both shared an erotic fascination with monkey's they got married in a zoo. Now is it any coincidence that her career has been fucking dead since she let that mad goblin stick his wand in her. I think not. She used to look quite hot when she was about 11, but after that she turned fuck ugly and made shit films, like Terminator 4. I'd still do her though. Would have to vaccum Burton's spunk out of her vag first though. There's no way in hell I'm sticking it up there with if he's been shooting his load. Fuck that. Shouldn't drink this early in the day.
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So T4 doesn't even work as a generic, shoot-em-up action movie? Geez, that's bad.
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Funny. See u in the queue for T4! You know it makes sense!
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I'm a fan of Danny Elfman...but the score didn't feel inspired. And maybe that's a product of what we witnessed on screen, because it feels as though Elfman found no inspiration, here.
Quint, you are so right on many levels,...though, overall, I'm less harsh. There really is something to be said about having low expectations. (Thanks again, Harry!) This gets a C+ to B- from me, just enjoyable enough for the summer outing it provides.
And also, Quint, the idea of John Connor just being a voice on the radio, in being both a mystery and a legend, is a REALLY GREAT idea! THAT could have been a HUGE BOOST in a great script,...placing the focus on Kyle Reese and/or Marcus Wright. (If I was making movies, I feel that...THAT...is something I would gravitate towards.) And why is choreography becoming a dying art? The THING that I really LOVE about James Cameron...is that he is able to RELEASE the built-up drama in very satisfying, exciting ways. THERE IS THIS INTANGIBLE ENERGY that only the BEST directors can harness. And in my opinion, nobody does THAT better than James Cameron. AND THAT is the #1 reason why James Cameron is my favorite movie director. (I've witnessed this ability in Mel Gibson, too.)
Remember in Nolan's THE DARK KNIGHT, when the Gordon family is notified of Jim's (supposed) death, and Mrs. Gordon shouts at Batman? Remember the next camera-shot, at the Bat-signal (if I may refer to Nolan's spotlight as such)...and though I forget the exact words, do you remember that FEELING, that ENERGY before we cut to the club, where Batman attacks? Remember that RELEASE of dramatic ENERGY??? THAT is what was missing, here. It was THAT touch of magic that does not happen here, nor does it happen ENOUGH in Hollywood.
In Mel Gibson's BRAVEHEART, after the (secret) wife of Wallace has her throat slit, Wallace comes back on horseback, appearing to give up, hands off the horse reigns. THAT SCENE is a HUGE release of those feelings, an explosion of that drama. (Any man who knows love would understand that rage, under such circumstances.)
The talent for converting drama into action is ALL OVER James Cameron's work. I absolutely LOVE THAT about the man. And he pays off (that drama) with CHOREOGRAPHY and ARTISTRY, within a story you care about. (Note to Jim: My eyeballs are ready for AVATAR.)
The brief scene with Schwarzenegger was jaw dropping, in the sense that it really is AMAZING how far we've come with effects, in this digital age. And again, I agree with you Quint, in that the scene SHOULD have been so much more! Instead of building on that tension, what did they do? They CUT AWAY. --Cameron would have LOCKED on this scene and knock it out of the park.
Despite all this, I think we can all imagine that there is a diamond in the rough, though (unfortunately) not captured for the movie screen. With a few changes here and there, this movie could have been something special. So let us not put an end to these TERMINATOR flicks, quite yet. -
Doesn't make sense!
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I think he over-played the helicopters but most of the other actions scenes I thought worked really well. Overall I felt the film was a prologue to a much deeper flick to come, but even that aspect seems to really be pissing people off.
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The fact is, a lot of the people on here, haven't seen the theatrical release, which as has been said before, is a lot leaner, meaner and effective. The director's titanic cut is too heavy with the melodramma. So people who say, it was okay, should probably stfu and watch the theatrical version.
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http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.12/ragingboll.html
Hoping to see it tonight. Disappointed to hear that the score isn't any great shakes for most people. Elfman does seem a uninspired choice (when was the last time he even appeared interested in one of his scores?). -
Had McG stuck to original script instead of getting Bale involved..
http://tinyurl.com/pz5yu9
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Nicely thought out post bro.
I've heard there's 40 mins of material didn't make the theatrical cut so maybe well see 'a few changes here and there' to the inevitable Special Edition when TS comes to DVD and Blu Ray. -
May 21, 2009 11:42:12 AM CDT
Thabk you Quint Awesome review , JDanielP => right on brother !
by paulyd30
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This "film" WAS a trainwreck.
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Bye-bye Geordies.
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I'm not expecting a classic here. So, hopefully I won't be disappointed. It looks like the special effects work in this new TERMINATOR entry will kick ass, so it won't be a TOTAL loss!!!
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...which is kind of a plus...I guess.
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Me neither...I agree with those above who questioned everyone's insistence that since 1984, the entire fan base of Terminator has been salivating for a "Future War" movie. I have not. I only ever wanted the further story of Sarah Conner and her son, John Conner. To me, the entire context of the story revolved around them and THEIR struggle. The moment you include the entire human race in the forefront of the story, the severity of the events in the early movies loose context. And I loose interest. Think of it like finally getting to take that girl you really like out on a date but you end up having to take her entire family with you.This was most notable in T3 when the "Terminatrix" (holy shit do I hate that fucking impossiblly stupid name) went to that house party and killed Conner's 'future lieutenants'. I truly believe these are character driven dramas sitting within the genre of science fiction. Don't forget that the concept of "action movie" as a pure genre wasn't really present until a few years after Terminator came out (it was shot for like 6 million IIRC, practically making it an independent movie! testament to Cameron's and Hurd's talent even if you haters disagree)The end of the first movie was very bittersweet for me as though Sarah and her unborn son survive, their future is about as uncertain as it gets. Recording a journal..the obvious metaphor of the approaching storm. It worked so well because it didn't show it..didn't uproot your imagination.I loved how JC took it to the next logical step in T2 by having John say stuff like "..yeah, that was before we went into hiding in Nicaragua..." or "..she'd hook up with anyone who she felt could help me be this 'great military leader'...(paraphrased).But then T3 came along and all of the sudden there were a number of side characters. This would be fine if in the hands of more competent writers and directors but all that came across to me was just noise. Irrelevant and pointless noise. Even with Claire Danes, who I think it great (and beautiful) was basically just non-essential noise...husband and wife? Really? As in an actual marriage ceremony? wtf?!So, no, actually...not EVERYBODY wanted to see this 'future war' movie which makes it all the more shitty that McG apparently failed whit his take on it.Just like the "Clone Wars"..by having it a recurring but unseen theme in the OT, it became something in your imagination and even the most talented film-makers can hardly create something that inspiring...it's a herculean task and tho possible, very unlikely to succeed. McG was very enthusiastic and very salesman like about T:S and I'm not a McG hater even if I think his name is stupid.If I wanted it to fail, it was only from the viewpoint of not wanting to see fifty million derivative Terminator sequels...even if they manage not to suck giant donkey balls, they take a little out of the concept each time. Like listening to your favorite song over and over...at some point it starts to loose the original and very personal impact it had on you. Against everything...that fucking "Ani" character has almost ruined the iconic David Prowse performance as Darth Vader in the OT (still one of the greatest 'behind a mask' performances that I've seen). If I see Vader in the OT now, I almost can't help but think of that whiney douchebag screaming "It's all Obiwon's fault! He's jealous! Wah! Wah!" (hence my retired TB alias "Darth Macchio", etc).I'll pass on spending any overt coin on this and catch it on cable in 6 months...I guess the question is now this:If the movie makes a mint, do we think McG can or will (or has) matured as a director to make a competent sequel?
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You are terminated!
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...and we didn't have to hear about how it raped his childhood. Even though Knowle's review was right, eading about his perspective made the review useless. You have to look at this film as a new franchise. And as a new franchise it sucks.
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I LOVE YOU! You've developed into my favorite writer here on AICN and I would love to shake your hand. But enough is fucking enough. Leave the Prequels alone. Have some class and leave those poor films alone!
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May 21, 2009 12:35:08 PM CDT
When Helena showed up I thought I was watching Burton
by lockesbrokenleg
movie for a second. I got scared.
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I heard someone write that movies havent changed it's just that people nowadays just hate everything. Thats not true. Movies arent the same. Craftmanship, artistry, and the general sense of "magic" is just gone. What I cant stand is these underaged twats (no offense lazerpants) telling us that movies like T2 would be ripped to shreds todays as well. They have no defense as to the quaility of the modern movie so their only tactic is shitting on the pre heavy cgi masterpieces that we all know and love.
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I just wish people like you directed movies.
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I didnt like The Dark Knight. Am i alone in saying it was too long, boring, convoluted, lack of satisfying action and a villian in harvey who transforms two thirds in and dies at the end with next to no time to make an impact. It kinda frustrated me last year when it seemed that i was the only guy on the planter who didnt like it. I loved and much preffered Batman Begins, a film abt bruce wayne/batman, a film that promised to concentrate less on the villians and more on our hero. batman begins was seriously entertaining and it was the last film i saw that had me dying for more, that ending where gordon hands batman the joker card left me salivating at the prospect of what we will see next. fortunately for most that promise was delivered brilliantly but for me i was very dissapointed. the jokers plan seems far too intricate to be believable, bruce wayne compared to batman begins barely gets a look in, scenes felt flat and boring, the opening reminded me of point break and heat which meant i didnt enjoy the opening because i felt it was done better in the other 2 movies. the film as a whole just didnt do it for me the way begins did. anyone else agree. and please dont jump on my ass with hate. its just an opinion.
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Hey, I liked the action and everything. By this point, we know so much about Connor, there's hardly anything new to learn about him.
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Anyone else hate the way cinemascope films are shrunk in a multiplex? The screens at my local multiplex (apart from 1 screen) is shaped at 1.85:1 so 2.35:1 films have to be shrunk down to be played on the screen. That really pisses me off, why bother shooting the film in scope?
Apologies for the off-topic grumble. Fuckin' multiplexes. -
You are not alone. I didn't see TDK at the theater, but rented it when it came out on DVD. I watched about 1/3 of the movie, but it was boring and I turned it off (and I'm a big comic book fan).
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For what it's worth I agree with you. I'm a big Nolan fan and love some of The Dark Knight, the opening in particular but it just didn't do it for me. Somebody nicely summed up why when they said that the characters don't converse, they just make statements to each other. It's a well-made film, brilliant cast, nice photography but something is missing for me.
But hey, what do I know? I thought Star Trek was wack too. -
It's fine to not like Dark Knight but I would point out that some perspective is useful here. When genre fans were subsisting on any number of inferior works and fatally resigned to never seeing their favorite characters adapted thoughtfully, something like TDK (in goddam IMAX no less!) was pretty much an impossible notion. That we are so gorged now that people can be dismissive, even in qualified ways, shows that movies have given people at least a bit more of what people want than they typically seem willing to admit anymore. I'm not saying people shouldn't be discerning, especially since we have so many more opportunities to, but this odd default posture of anticipating letdown is kind of new and odd and frankly tears down even the smallest amount of enjoyment that might be gleaned from almost anything. I guess my question back would be when was the last time anyone had fun at the movies?
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My biggest gripe with TDK was the fact that the second act was far superior to the third. The batpod chase, the Joker in prison and the race to save Rachel and Harvey; are far more dramatic and exciting than anything in the third act. I personally don't buy the ferry scene and Two-Face is shortchanged again. Eckhart and Nolan get the characterization of Dent far better than the crap that was in Batman Forever. However, Two-Face shouldn't have died. It felt like a similar tease to Venom in Spider-man 3. This is why I love Cameron. He gets you right into the story in act 1. He slows it down and lets you know the characters in act 2 and then makes a balls-to-the-wall third act.
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That's a good way of putting it. You're right, the second act of Dark Knight is the best and the third a let down.
And yup, Cameron has structure mastered. I wonder if Avatar will have one of his triple-decker action climaxes? -
Your review sounds like you loathed it
Which is it Both?? -
No JackGraham, it isn't just you. Good but not great. At least 20 minutes too long and then a HUGE mistake in trying to cram in Two-Face. I didn't even like it as much as "Batman Begins." I roll my eyes every time I happen upon that IMDB rating. It's just one of those ridiculous things that you eventually just stop and accept, much like Best Pictures for "Shakespeare in Love" or "Crash."
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which is unusual because until now i havnt known of anyone who didnt love The Dark Knight. Everyone i knew loved it, one friend said it was the best comic book movie ever made, another said it was the best batman movie ever made and others said it was excellent, brilliant etc. for me it was always just plain ok, good in places but too serious and a tad dull to ever be great enjoybale entertainment. when was the last time i enjoyed being at the movies? Batman Begins, summer 2005. i loved it then and still do. i'm a big nolan fan myself, with the exception of my own hangups with the dark knight nolan to my tastes hasnt made a bad film. memento, insomnia, batman begins, prestige, i liked them all, i havnt seen following, perhaps i expected too much from the dark knight, perhaps in time ill see it differently, bit for now its just kinda refreshing to see not everybody considers it an amazing work.
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that is McG and Hollywood who has been tarnishing established franchises because they are unoriginal. What's next? a new Indiana Jones or Ghostbuster movie? oh, wait...
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And that was from our resident nerd who slobbers all over even crappy sci-fi/robot movies.
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It wasn't even a superhero movie! It was a crime drama with Batman in it for a few scenes.
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"We can eavesdrop on everybody in the city but we can't ID a criminal, who appears to have come out of nowhere and whose plans always work despite the millions of variables that go into them." Gritty 'realism,' my ass.
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LOL! What's funny is whenever my kids see news footage of the Gov, you know what they say "Its that guy from Jingle All The Way"! I kid you not...
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It was supposed to be released tomorrow, but theaters around here are already playing it! I want to see it sooo bad as I do believe the reviews here are being filtered from blind fanboy eyes that refuse to acknowledge many of T1 and T2's weaknesses as well. The only weakness I've heard so far is about the fact Skynet knows Kyle Reese's significance. I also don't like that Conner tells Marcus (who he apparantly doesn't trust) about skynet's plans to kill his mother- Sarah Conner and his father - Kyle Reese. You would think he would keep his father a secret since he is in harm's way. TSCC showed the characters as being more secretive about John's dad.
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it made a bajillion dollars, won awards, and was loved by huge numbers of critics, comic geeks, film geeks and movie goers. yes, we all know some people didnt care for it. Its safe to say you are in the minority. you dont have some unique insight into the film that no one has thought of. no one cares. Compare your pathetic lives to THE BALE and then kill yourselves.
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The problem is that people want to believe that their opinion is definitive and rather than merely state that they didn't like something they escalate and call it shit, overrated, etc. Something like TDK, whether you personally enjoyed the film or not, does a great deal right so when I read somebody calling it out as overrated crap, it's a bit irksome. TDK came out a year ago and it's one of the most critically and commercially successful films ever made so if you personally didn't like it that's fine but at this point I hope we can move on because arguing the merits of such a film is pointless. I personally don't care much for the Godfather films but I'm certainly not going to call them out as overrated shit just because the movies don’t appeal to my personal tastes. I guess my point is that you can appreciate and respect something even if you don’t personally fawn all over it.
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... you have your movie geek credentials revoked... for life.
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About Total Film, don't forget those were the same who gave Pearl Harbor 4 stars and ID4 5 stars. I still buy the magazine, but i take their ratings with a bit of a pitch of salt. I'm yet to identify who's the fool who's always giving shit blockbuster movies such high marks.
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It's true. Google that shit.
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That's what the Arnie CGI head should say at the end of this bullshit. That may be worth the $10 alone.
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Whether or not some of you think that T2 is a great movie per se, you can't deny that James Cameron is pretty much a god at action choreography. The truck chase scene in T2 is just burned into my mind, all of the beats and shots in that sequence are PERFECT. Remember the way Arnie would flip his shotgun to reload it? Arnie soaring down into the flood canal to grab John Connor off his little bike before T-1000 ran his ass over? Fucking ICONIC. And it was filmed in such a way that you could see everything perfectly, no shakycam work or jarring editing. Just perfect. I also love the moment towards the climax when Arnie climbs out of their shitty pick-up truck, climbs on top of the cab of T-1000's truck, breaks, the window, and unloads right in Richard Patrick's chest with a full clip from an automatic rifle. God, those exhilarating action moments are so rare these days and Cameron was such a master at them.
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i've probably used that word before, but then i realised how completely stupid it is.Not liking something that is liked by most doesnt mean its overrated (assuming there is some sort of rating system that keeps track off this shit), it just means you didnt like it. And if its loved by most people from hardcore film critics to lowly general audiences, chances are you're just fucking wrong anyway.
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If blinding blowing The Dark Knight is what it takes to keep my "movie geek credentials," you can have 'em. In truth, they never did that much for me anyway. I like what I like and don't need any credentials for that, and that's enough for me.
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It’s not often that a studio can put out a movie and two sequels and not have at least one be a worthless rip-off.
Spider-Man 3? Worthless rip-off. Alien3? Worthless rip-off. X-Men 3: The Last Stand? Worth renting for the scene where they destroy the Golden Gate Bridge, but otherwise …
In that way, the Terminator series — which continues this week with Terminator Salvation — is an anomaly. It’s close to being the action movie version of The Godfather saga: The first Terminator was a masterpiece, the second was bigger and better and the third didn’t measure up, but is still a better film than most people give it credit for.
In that way, the Terminator series — which continues this week with Terminator Salvation — is an anomaly. It’s close to being the action movie version of The Godfather saga: The first Terminator was a masterpiece, the second was bigger and better and the third didn’t measure up, but is still a better film than most people give it credit for.
With that optimistic outlook, we watched the movies again, and started handing out The Arnolds — awards for the best and worst of the minutiae from the films. Congratulations to all the winners. Unfortunately, most of them aren’t around to pick up their awards …
BestTerminator line
“Your clothes. Give them to me.” (The Terminator)
Arnold Schwarzenegger got a lot more mileage out of “I’ll be back” and “Hasta la vista, baby.” But the coolest line came during the Terminator’s first few minutes after being transported to the past, when the naked cybernetic organism approaches three punks and demands the clothes off their backs. The look on lead punk Bill Paxton’s face is priceless, and it set up the Terminator as a no-nonsense badass for the rest of the series.
Honorable mention: “Come with me if you want to live!” (Terminator 2)
Most undeserving Terminator death
John Connor’s foster mom (Terminator 2: Judgment Day)
Janelle Voight is a freaking saint. Already dealing with a beer-swilling, half-wit husband, she agrees to take a 10-year-old motorbike-riding, ATM-thieving juvenile delinquent off the state’s hands. And how is she rewarded? A liquid metal Terminator from the future comes into her home, kills her and then turns its arm into a giant stalagmite and impales her husband’s head.
Honorable mention Sarah Ann Connor; Sarah Louise Connor (The Terminator — killed because their names came before the other Sarah Connor in the phone book.)
Best Terminator escape vehicle
The hearse (Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines)
It seems as if the inhabitants of the Terminator world are always driving away from something. Easily the most outstanding escape vehicle was the shabby black “Valley of Peace” hearse that the Terminator T-101 (Schwarzenegger), John Connor (Nick Stahl) and Kate Brewster (Claire Danes) use to escape the new Terminator T-X (Kristanna Loken). The late-model American-made hearse endures a couple hundred rounds of automatic weapons fire, a circular saw attack from the T-X, several off-road excursions and a high-speed collision with a semi truck — and the hearse still reaches its destination.
Honorable mention The SPCA pickup truck (Terminator 3)
Most awesome Terminator special effect
The T-1000 gets hit with a grenade (Terminator 2)
There are so many great sequences to choose from — the first two Terminator movies featured huge innovations in makeup and digital effects. We’ll take the scene where the T-1000 (Robert Patrick) gets hit by a grenade, explodes into what looks like a ripped-apart aluminum can, then morphs back into an unstoppable man/machine. The rewind button was made for times like this.
Honorable mention Terminator gives himself eye surgery (The Terminator)
Most worthless Terminator protagonist
Kate Brewster (Terminator 3)
Terminator 3 didn’t miss James Cameron as much as everyone thought. The script was surprisingly effective, and Jonathan Mostow capably shot the action scenes. Arguably the biggest problem was the casting, including Danes as Kate Brewster, the future wife of John Connor. Danes mostly just panicked and moped a lot. And the actress looks like she might have a hard time lifting a half-full can of Pringles, much less an automatic weapon. This is a future leader of the resistance?
Honorable mention John Connor (Terminator 3)
Most completely random Terminator cameo
Danny Cooksey (Terminator 2)
We have no idea how this red-headed kid went from being cast as Sam on the death throe final seasons of Diff’rent Strokes to getting a speaking part in the highest-grossing film of 1991, playing John Connor’s juvenile delinquent friend. That’s like going from batting seventh on your beer league softball team to roaming center field for the New York Yankees. (And unlike any Yankee, Cooksey got to wear an awesome mullet!) The kid nailed the role. Bring him back for Terminator 4.
Honorable mention Bill Paxton (Terminator 2)
Hottest Terminator moment
Linda Hamilton does a chin-up (Terminator 2)
The consummation of Sarah Conner and Kyle Reese’s love may have been the romantic peak of the series — and sex is always best after making homemade explosives out of moth balls and laundry detergent. But this love fest was trashy in a bad way, taking place in a really sleazy motel when both characters hadn’t showered. The scene we freeze-frame the most is Sarah Conner’s insane asylum pull-ups-on-the-bed-frame sequence. If you grew up in the 1990s, it didn’t get much hotter than Linda Hamilton’s well-defined triceps.
Honorable mention Ginger and Matt’s phone sex (The Terminator); Schwarzenegger’s first naked trip through the teleportation plasma ball from the future (The Terminator).
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...and I'll post it again here because I'm too lazy not to re-use it... but I think they should have just gone all out and have a cross-franchise twist where it turns out that Skynet eventually does win, despite John Conner heroically dying after removing their only power source by scorching the sky. Then a few hundred years pass, and Skynet has learned a bunch of big words and studied MMORPG's and creates a Matrix to house it's oblivious living human batteries, giving them a world where everything is as they expect it, but the one weakness is the Skynet Matrix's lack of comprehension of human emotion, so Matrix-world laws dictate that everyone must take the blue pill everyday to suppress their emotions. And Matrix cleric John Presconner, the most gifted Bat-fu enforcer in the whole Matrix, is tasked with keeping the peace, but he starts to doubt his identity and refuse his pills when he is tormented by hallucinations of leading a double life as a serial killer, which leads him on a twisted path to discover he is the reincarnation of the Lord Bale... leading to the ultimate scene where he puts on a cape and storms the Skynet Matrix mainframe to confront its sheepishly muttering Central Light Mainframe Architect and proceed to utterly trash the lights that power the entire Skynet grid, restoring natural light to the world and freeing the emotionally repressed human batteries and showing them how to feel human emotion again by screaming holy obscenities. Roll credits. Nash out.
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Not a lot, but some. Enough to nag at me and cause me not to fall in love with it like some people. Of course, if asked, I would say it is a damn good movie and I can totally understand why other people love it. It just has enough "flaws" if you will to prevent me from ever getting into it.
Plus, I realize, you can never have a truly perfect Batman movie. The character has been depicted a 100,000 different ways in the comic, so there is no absolute 100% correct way to show him in the movies. And you know what? That is cool. I can handle Neal Adams, Steve Englehart, Morrison, Miller, Bob Kane, Julius Schwartz, Tim Burton and Adam West all had different takes on the character, I can handle the fact that Chris Nolan's take is different than mine. -
Are you seriously trying to call me a plant?
Fuck off if you are! (If I misinterpreted your coughs, then sorry)
Is RT rotten tomatoes? If so - why should I care what they say?
I've never visited that site.
Harry slated this worse than anything ever.
I haven't seen it, and prob won't for a while as I'm skint, but when a UK mag I trust a hell of a lot says it's a 4 star film, I'm inclined to wonder WHY Harry and this site are so pissed at it.
If your other comment about the studio wanting to suck his cock is right, then I take that back, but I'm seriously not gonna bother doing a CSI style investigation just so I don't get flamed on a bloody talkback!
Have YOU seen it? Did YOU hate it?
I refuse to believe it's worse than Wolverine, surely that can't be possible?!!
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I'm done with him professionally.
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...as a TERMINATOR lover. But I can't seem to muster one...I suppose that's the problem in a nutshell.
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May 21, 2009 1:56:38 PM CDT
I bet this fucker makes more than Star Trek Shit Fest at the box
by scriptgirl_nipples
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Haven't seen it since my childhood. It's good, but it's not as great as everyone makes it out to be, and I believe whole-heartedly that this is a direct result of simply looking back on old things (like movies) more fondly than they deserve. It's not like it's just with movies, people do it with everything. It's natural. The other problem today is that people have high-standards, atleast people like most of us. IE, people that follow movies, watch lots of movies, and are generally film geeks, we're looking for more than we should. Honestly, were there that many people that expected this movie to be that great? With a director like McG, the writers of the last (terrible) Terminator, a long with off the set issues? I'll admit, I was hopeful too. The casting of Bale seemed positive, the guy may be an asshole, but he picks decent movies. He really hasn't made anything terrible until this, possibly. I'll still see it, and I'll go in with an open mind. I like Terminator, I like action, I like Bale, and I like the look movie. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not holding breath.
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My reaction was the same. I liked it. But it's flat. Wasn't ready to shoot. Cool action, Yelchin is great, the score was AWFUL. The only part I disagree with was that I thought Worthington was pretty bad.
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To recap: Some of you like this film and some of you think it looks good; the others hated the film or think it looks bad. Hmmm, which side is right.
WHO CARES?!?
I've got news for people here, it is a fucking movie about people fighting robots in the future. This isn't Chinatown or There Will Be Blood folks. And for anyone worrying about tarnishing the Terminator Franchise name, that franchise has already been compromised thanks to T3 (you may like that movie, but it was made purely to profit off of name recognition).
Personally, I think this movie looks and sounds dumb and don't plan to see it, but I am not going to go out of my way to make others try not to see it if they want. I am an admitted movie snob when it comes to what I see, but Jesus Christ, if some guys here want to watch dumb man-on-robot action more power to them. To each their own (Fuck, I think Last American Virgin has the most poignant ending in a movie ever so who the fuck am I to talk).
In closing - healthy debates = good; turning Terminator Salvation into the new Roe vs. Wade = time to move out of your parents basement. -
May 21, 2009 2:07:18 PM CDT
The Terminator Sequels are Crap...
by the_floating_skull_of_robert_loggia
Terminator 2 was an embarrassment. All catch-phrases and cheap stunts, with nary a hint of the suspense and thrills of the first film. It also introduced the world to the pox on humanity that was Edward Furlong, before he morphed into some sort of monstrous, bloated, and greasy hybrid of Eddie Munster and Paul Reubens. Terminator 3 was a joke. All of this talk about how Salvation lacks the characterization and heart of the previous films is a laugh riot. I love how fans of these films look back at them as though they were anything more than loud distractions from their otherwise mundane lives in their parent's basements (where most of them probably still reside, dusting off the packaging of their Qui Gon Jin action figure). These movies are loud and dumb and Salvation looks louder and dumber than any of them. Go suck a bag of dicks, McG haters.
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WTF?
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and yeah, it does feel good to be right...again
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May 21, 2009 2:18:16 PM CDT
If JJ Abrams directed this EXACT same film...
by the_floating_skull_of_robert_loggia
This site would be proclaiming its brilliance, and half of the talkbackers would be lining up to fellate Abrams' circumsized manmeat. They'd say "It's so action -packed it doesn't matter that the characters are cardboard caricatures, Abrams is a genius!" Then they'd go and watch fucking Firefly for eight hours while their mothers fold their laundry.
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I still haven't forgiven him for the concentration camp of the mind that was Cloverfield, and if he had directed this it's true, Harry, Massawyrm, and the rest would be fighting like two kids over the last mayonnaise packet just to perform analingus on JJ Abrams dog. You don't like McG? No problem, just to watch Cloverfuckingfield again.
Star Trek was cool though, way better than Firefly. -
stop typing "knock it out of the park." This was a dull cliche the first time anyone used it. 1950-ish.
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My movie geek credentials are impeccable :)
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Praise him people! Without him and possibly the Wrym this site wouldn't be worth shit! Moriarty has gone and Harry seems to be getting more feminine by the day
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i think technically it was pretty good. Kinda hit the right notes. But it was just a pointless rehash of 2 and didnt add anything except Connor's girlfriend. It was just so completely unnecessary.
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was a perfectly reasonable straight to video-level action movie with a cool ending. Unfortunately it was following up two of the best and most iconic sci-fi action movies ever made.
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May 21, 2009 2:30:07 PM CDT
You Know what would have made Salvation great?
by the_floating_skull_of_robert_loggia
If it were directed by Joss Whedon, and it starred Nathan Fillion, and all of the Terminators were replaced by space pirates. The whole script would be chockful of awesome pop-culture bon mots that will make next to no sense in three years, and make repeat viewings excruciating. It amazes me the things the denizens of this site get behind and the things it attacks with extreme prejudice. I'd like to open Joss Whedon's skull and take a shit inside. Maybe that would elicit a decent idea from that hack.
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Yup, I said it. T2, one of my favs and many of yours as well, has one of the BIGGEST flaws of logic EVER in a movie. They set up the rules in T1, "Why not bring back a ray gun?" "Nothing dead will go" "...covered by living tissue..." etc... Then we get T2, where the bad guy is made of liquid metal, yet makes it through just fine. Again, I love that flick, but that was a real Whiskey Tango Foxtrot aspect of it. As far as this one, Peter Griffin and I agree, "I just don't see why they need another Terminator movie..."
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Well, as applied to Bale's Batman, "sucked ass" means Bale got hoarse from drawing the air from an ass forcefully through the throat. Less a description of his acting than an explanation.
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The trailer pissed me off, though.
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Lol. Agree on the Last American Virgin. I was wishing some hateful shit on that bitch. Then again that boy was a sucka!
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How many times does this need to be said..the T-1000 is capable of mimicking the composition of substances, including flesh, at a molecular level, which is clearly enough to fool the time displacement machine. That's all the explanation you need, particularly since it is a largely irrelevant point to the main narrative.In fact, Cameron actually considered showing that the T-1000 came back in a covered outer 'skin', which it would then shed, snake-like (the cop would find it moments before he was struck down), but he discarded the idea because a) it was potentially too confusing to the audience, b) tonally out of place (too much like something out of alien) and c)would reveal that the T-1000 was not human right from the start (which, like Arnold being the protector, was supposed to be something of a surprise). He made the right call, because all this nit-picking shit doesn't need to be explained. the viewer can fill in the rest for him/herself.
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like T1 or anything else you want to pick is just that. The first movie came pretty much out of nowhere when it arrived but people were excited and responded to it. I don't really expect people that watched it for the first time as a kid on VHS and rewound it for boobies several times to understand its impact and the more resonant impact of its sequel but reinventing it as something that barely can hold your attention anymore because a couple of decades of glossier knockoffs and riffs came around when you could buy your own R rated tickets.
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Which makes T2 a pretty jarring shift tonally. T4 is actually the darkest of the franchise since the original because they go back to making the Terminators into monsters, which I really liked.
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then the period
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is a flaw because it doesn't make sense on any level. If the computers can be tricked into sending back organic matter then why not wrap weapons in flesh? And why would a thin layer of organic matter hide 400 lbs of metal endoskeleton from a machine that otherwise can't send non-organic matter into time? Don't get me wrong, it's not a huge deal, but the logic is flawed.
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Skynet gets frustrated and sends 5 robots back in time at once to finally kill John Conner. Then we'd have Arnold going up against 5 terminators. How bad ass would that have been?
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If only they'd taken some time and injected real science into it. Dragons wouldn't wipe out a planet of humans, but a passel of super-viruses that the Dragons carry in their saliva would. That's the trouble with mainstream sci-fi, light on science, heavy on special effects, and what's this character arc stuff anyway?
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...T23D at Universal Studios in Florida.
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Yeah, when I was younger I thought "God damn, what an ungrateful bitch." But as I got older I started to seeing it her way: yes you helped me but lets be honest, you are a loser and I am not attracted to you, I mean, if a fat, ugly girl helped you out during a big crisis would you go with her or the super hot bitch who got you in trouble the first time?
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I wouldn't, but my friend did. He married her. LOL
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annnnnddddd still not interested. what a shame. well maybe this will encourage bale to get back to Batman3.
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although designed as a theme park ride, and probably not cannon, was 100 times more inventive and entertaining than anything in T3 or 4. Makes one weep for a Cameron future war T3.
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I like you McG, you'll nail the next one - right?
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who the fuck cares about box office???? the film opened on a thursday and has a MEMORIAL DAY weekend. And i still think Night at the Museum will open bigger. But the big question is will you remember it?
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2002? 2007? 1998? 1995? 2008? exactly.
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it was all back story. a mcguffin if you will, to get the plot rolling. he coulda done an opening crawl if you wished. thats what made it kinda cool. Just as Lucas INITIALLY only referenced the clone wars. it left you wanting more when its mysterious like that. it was so badass when Ben talked about the old days. i miss them too Ben
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HORRIBLE.
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Still it WAS better than partIV "Dick in the box."
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GO AHEAD! RAKE ME OVER THE COALS! I DESERVE IT. it is sad, though...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6vjT_P0gg&feature=related
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No, he didn't NEED to do the future war, the story wrapped up nicely with T2...I 've said this myself on many occasions. HOWEVER, I'm pretty damn sure that he could have pulled off something pretty spectacular with it if he had chosen to do a T3 and shown the future war (where else would the 3rd movie have gone?)-Cameron isn't Lucas. Moreover, he would have done something that was thematically consistent with the first two movies - it would by no means have been big battles and explosions with no underlying point. It would have complemented the other two - if T1 was Kyle's story, and T2 was Sarah's, T3 would have been John's. Then the end would have been the protagonists coming back in time to 1984 (none of this spin it out for another trilogy bullshit) - that would have made for a dramatically satisfying and unified trilogy.
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TheLastCleric -- The science of that was not properly explained. Maybe when the T1000 mimics something he mimics the living fuck out of it and can apparently trick the Time Displacement Equipment (TM).
T2 is flawed because it's basically a remake of T1 pretending to be a sequel. A good guy and a bad guy travel back through time to make sure John Connor never becomes the Resistance leader. Both guys encounter John/Sarah at the same time and have an ineffective gun battle. Reese/Arnold go on the run with John/Sarah while the bad terminator tracks them down. In both movies, the good guys try to stop judgement day by destroying cyberdyne's research. Yes, even in T1 if you watch the outtakes. At that point in both movies, the bad terminator picks up their trail again. Then there's a heated chase where the bad terminator is chasing them in a large tanker truck, which crashes. In T1, the terminator gets his flesh burned off by the burning gas, in T2, the T-1000 is frozen by the liquid nitrogen and shot into a million tiny pieces. In each, the bad terminator gets up from what the heroes and audience hoped was total destruction and begins the final chase into the obligatory industrial center. Both Reese and the good terminator die at the end.
It's the same fucking story done twice.
T1 revolutionized sci-fi movies, especially with time travel as a plot device. Arnold's defining role was as the T-800.
T2 is a rehash with a family bonding side story thrown in. However, it is one of the best sequels ever made, but IMHO inferior to the first movie. -
"Only ray of hope for the summer is Public Enemies"What about "Up"?"District 9"?
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You fucker, where's script girls nipple? You lied just so I'd read your non tittie text. I will have my revenge. I will have vengence.
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Ive heard such intelligent debate such as "no one gives a fuck what you think of the dark knight" ... "You guys who have problems with TDK, you're movie geek credentials are now revoked" ... that one is my favourite so far. anyway going back to my original post, i knew stating my opinion on The Dark Knight would kick up a shit storm the size of Judgment day. the way im seeing it, and tell me if im wrong here guys, but this is a movie site which allows us movie lovers to post opinions etc. so if certain people wish to debate over the meriots of the dark knight thats fine, i welcome it, but keep it intelligent, unlike the above which just makes you look, well dumb. one more thing, one of you guys, hmmm who was it, oh yeah the last cleric, you said i called the dark knight "over rated shit" i didnt say that at all, i asked if anyone thought it was over rated but not once did i say it was shit, i actually said it was ok, sometimes good. read before you jump on the bandwagon. peace.
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Ha. Fuck you. There ain't nowt here cept me and my evil mind. Hurts doesn't it? Now back to the pussy trail....
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See Harry's review thread. It's a filmm that takes characters and develops them from where they were n the original, Arnold plays his opposite number, there are inversions of the themes found in the original, and it deals with things, such as the nuclear war and judgment day, that were barely dealt with in the origianl. Even those deleted scenes(which were not included in the original cut anyway and are therefore non-canonical) are just germs of ideas which becme major plot points in the sequel. T2 is categorically NOT a remake. It is a true sequel. (Its structural echoes are quite deliberate and do not themselvesmake it a remake, but a deliberate echo and companion piece).
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We've already survived through Mclol's new failure of a film. Now we have to fucking sit through new films from Bay and Sommers. /p/ Fuccccccckkkkkk.
At least we have Up to look forward to. In 3D it will fuck my eyeballs with balloons! -
will do the trick - just without the underlines.
Glad to see others agreeing about T4. So much potential wasted... -
When walked into the theater to see T3 I was stark raving mad. The absence of Cameron had left me jaded. The only reason I went to see it is because (surprise) my GF wanted to see it. Despite having a lame villain we really enjoyed the movie. For the life of me I couldn't understand why I enjoyed the movie despite all of the things that were missing. So I'll go into T4 with the same expectations I had for T3, which were none. That way I can just enjoy the mindless eye-candy along with my stale under buttered popcorn.
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have now veered into self-parody. That is the norm here at AICN. Generally good discussion for a day or two, if somewhat infantile with the flying insults, followed by a steep dropoff into numbing goofballery. Time to abandon ship.
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May 21, 2009 3:36:49 PM CDT
ganymede3010 - That is the required mindset for enjoyment.
by vic twenty
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Thank you, one and all, especially all the Cameron Fags, who would gladly eat an entire bowl of his shit and ask for seconds, for not only proving me 100% Right, but keeping me entertained. You've been a lovely audience and I look forward to seeing all of you at the theatre this weekend as you will all no doubt be watching Terminator: Balevation at least 10 or 12 times. Just once will be good enough for me, but I know what your flavor of "hate" actually entails -- a borderline schizophrenic obsessive love. Cheers, Bitches! Have fun defending your Family Friendly Robodaddy Movie! Theres blu tints, buttcheeks, and 'splosions! Thank gosh the violence is turned down and the comic relief ratcheted up! Cause lord knows nothing spells APOCALYPTIC TERROR like a Aryan Robot Man from the future saying "Hasta La Vista, Baybeee!" OMG!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! THATS SO APOCALYPTERRIFIC!!!
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when the Matrix trilogy first came out to me it always felt like a natural narrative evolution from Terminator to Matrix, Matrix is basically the aftermath of the robot uprising/Skynet war.
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Yet again people dismiss any possible ways in which the T-1000 (the liquid metal guy) could time travel. Tho you won't...read my "T2 and time travel" comment in Harry's review thread...it makes perfect sense to me if you take the time to piece it all out.Now, I can hear your response from all the way over here through my screen..."Why should I fucking piece it all out!?!?!"...Good question...You know why you have to? Cause if you don't we get stupid ass shit spelled out to us and absurdly convenient plot elements in place to explain each and every possible thing that might befuddle the average lazy thinker. I'm not saying I'm right....but a guy like Cameron is, for the most part, quite savvy with the logic of the sci-fi tech he portrays in his movies. For Bale's sake, the guy thinks he's an undersea oceanographer or whatever! Jackass tho he may be...if you think he missed a plot hole as big as 'nothing living can go' then I think you're the one either too quickly dismissing the possibility or are just in desperate need of having everything telephoned to you personally so you "get it". Perhaps you should listen to commentaries...I'm not sure if he mentions it there but he does discuss the other plot hole you guys love to point out...the one where the T-1000 pins Sarah and commands her to call to John (or die by pointy metal finger of death) when he actually does mimic her only a few moments later. Why? Why have this gaping plot hole? Well, it's simple really...the T-1000 is not immortal or omnipotent and was damaged by the CO2 freezing and "destruction" and wanted to conserve energy by not having to morph into Sarah's form. In the extended cut, you see more malfunctions. But of course, that's me just readint to much into it...I'm sure you guys are right.But, can I blame you personally when, in 5 years, there's a convenient person present to explain everything a much better screenwriter would leave to our imaginations.My 2sense
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Definitely true and no doubt the weakest points of the movie. Furlong was mostly cringe inducing and anytime he said any slang I can't help rolling my eyes. But for me personally, those scenes are balanced out by every moment Robert Patrick is on screen. He so totally kicks ass in every way as the T-1000 that it more than makes up for Arnie's and doofy kid's dialog.But still...there are some plot holes in everything but many of the ones you guys complain about are only plot holes if you don't actually consider what's happening that Cameron doesn't show you.I'm sure you don't want everything telegraphed but again...can I blame you when it is? I mean we can blame some of the Transformer apologists and the broken record "its a summer movie dude! it's not some art house film! giant robots! boobs! yeehaw!" idiocy. As if the only choice was dumb shit and explosions or no action movies at all.
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i'm gonna start the ball rolling by saying Superman Returns : supes, who's just flown to the north pole or wherever his home is, pushes the giant kryptonian rock out of the ocean and up into space, and then falls back down to earth, miraculously landing back in his home town of metropolis. duh.
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Bone Collector. That any cop in NY would be as hot as Angelina Jolie.
Runner up: Fantastic Four. Jessica Alba as a scientist. -
bummed.
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http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6318/t3pg.jpg
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but what takes the top spot is this, ellen brody and family decide to get away from amity and its shark inhabited waters by taking a trip to the bahamas baby, but whatdya know, that darn shark must have overheard their holiday plans and decides to book a 1st class trip to the same destination, its got a grudge you see.
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Right now for me the cup is half empty but if I catch it on FX at 2 in the morning it might be half full. I'd give it ** 1/2 but who really wants to see a ** 1/2 Terminator movie, right?
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Denise Richards as a big boobed nuclear scientist. Top that.
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or should it just be trashed!
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May 21, 2009 4:34:07 PM CDT
JackGraham, Jaws the Revenge's biggest plot hole is...
by tylerdurden3395
Hoagie's airplane sinking underwater and then he shows up on the boat minutes later and his clothes are DRY. I would believe a shark could make like Charles Bronson and go on a Death Wish. I believe a shark could swim in the warm water. I DO NOT believe that Hoagie has the ability to remain perfectly dry while nearly drowning in the Carribbean.
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they are just bad casting decisions. Superman 4 ... luther man or whatever his fucking name was storms into the daily planet and kidnaps mariel hemingway or whatever her name is. he then flies her to space and somehow she's able to not die of a lack of oxygen. maybe shes supergirl in disguise.
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But what about a guy with a thick German accent being an All-American special forces operator (Predator, Commando)?
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talk talk talk... Ledger's joker performance is more annoying than Bale's batman voice, Try watching it again you will agree.
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Have listened to the T4 Score about 5 times in a row now to saturate myself with what he was trying to do. It's actually VERY strong thematically...and layered...but he went downhill after the original batman. I won't have it played at my funeral like I plan to do with Fiedel's. DUN DUN DUN DUNDUN...as my casket is lowered hahah
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You've got this giant killer ape on the island and the only thing protecting the natives against it is a huge wall. So what do they do? Build a friggin' huge door big enough for Kong to use. WTF?
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I watched it again and still love it...what do I do now?
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will take a closer look at that scene the next time i decide to revisit it, which might be many many years from now, unless i happen on it on t.v. CASTAWAY, love that film but one thing irks me, when the plane goes down, our hero drifts to a small island where he spends 4 years eating cocunuts and talking to a ball. all very good indeed. however, i'm assuming that certain authorities would have made some kind of search for the aircraft and its passengers, and im sure with todays modern technology they would have had a good idea of where the plane went down, so it makes sense then for these authorities to check the surrounding little islands that occupy this space. i mean, if there are gonna be survivors surely they would realise where they would be, on an island. those darn survival searches, they give up too easily.
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but the one that i shall share with you movie lovers and haters tonight is this one ... the aliens have attacked and L.A is rubble. will smiths stripper girlfriend is sitting by a fire with the first lady (coincedence but one that i can jst abt swallow) what i cant swallow is that will smith decides to grab a chopper and go find her ass, and he succeeds in finding her very quickly because L.A is a very small village, that now lays to waste in the dark. what did you do will, tag her with a homing device.
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In which a character who can levitate dies from a fall off a roof. Yeah, you, Andrew Stevens.
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The first one is destroyed, fucking popped like a Helium Balloon and what does the Empire do in the Return of the Jedi?
Build another one?
What The Fuck?
Its kinda like the new Superman, where Luther's master plan once again deals with cornering the Real Estate market. -
in which the con revolves around the character played by Julia Roberts is used as a double for the real Julia Ro... ahh, I can't even type the words.
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It is logical. The orginial death star was invulnerable except for one flaw. Why wouldnt they rebuild it? Besides The Death Star in ROJ was the least of that films problems. And also the Dark Knight is far from a perfect film. In fact when comparing it to a film like T2 it looks rather convoluted and clunky.
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I'm calling it early. Public Enemies looks like it could have a shot at being good. But everything else looks like mindless blockbuster junk.
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I haven't seen it yet but I know this much: this is NOT the Future War that is alluded to in the previous films. It's about 9 years EARLIER than the time where JC beats the machines and then he and skynet start time-traveling Kyle Reese and a few Terminators back in time. They want this to be part one of a new T-trilogy. They're already planning T5. The only T-film I'm interested in is the one with the FINAL future war that sets all of the previous films, T's 1-3, in motion. I really just want to see what James Cameron planned to use at the beginning of T2: Connor sending his Dad, Kyle Reese, back in time to conceive him and then die. That would be cool. All this noise before that happens? Not interested...
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In Commando Rae Dawn Chong is so afraid of Matrix that she sicks mall security on him. Then after watching him destroy like a hundred guys she jumps back in the car with him.
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cuz thats all studios care about..bad reviews on money making movie don't mean shit to them.
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But I never really thought Salvation would work. The entire war aspect of the Terminator franchise was actually very small. The important thing was skynet sending robots back in time the war was the aftermath. For me T1 and T2 are it and I'll watch T3 for laughs. This movie from the start seems pointless because we know the war can't be won it will be won back in time. That is why I like what McG said about a sequel where skynet would send larger machines back in time to win. That sounds cool to me but whatever this movie might not be a hit if everyone hates it this much.
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In star wars as they are waiting to clear the planet (Yavin) to destroy rebel base, why not just blow up the planet and then moon? done and done.
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as JOhn Hurt says in CONTACT, "why make one, when you can have two for twice the price?"
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you make my day fun. just like shooting dipshit fish in a barrel. i only plan on seeing T4 once, thanks, and thats cause i already made plans, but i know something you dont know. im seeing it on Star Trek's dime and sneaking in. and im not left handed either.
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agreed that IF Cams made a sequel it would be kickass. hes so meticulous and crafty.
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Harold's was just SAD.
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... to me this film is a masterpiece and exceeds The Dark Knight in almost every way. Anyway, back to plot holes, The Lost World, JP2, 2/3 rds in and the t rex is captured alive and thrown into a ship for transportation to the mainland most probably to be stuck in a zoo, so the ship is nearing the dock but before you can say i told you so the ship doesnt stop and crashes into the dock and the trex breaks free of its hold and runs amok. ok, firstly, the trex hasnt escaped yet when the boat crashes, but it somehow very easily breaks out of its hold when it does, so why didnt it just escape mid voyage and go for a swim, and secondly, how is it that the ship crew members are dead, with one unlucky guys severed arm resting on the wheel of the ship, did the trex break free of its hold, creep along through all the thin corridors and eat a man while he was driving his boat and then go back into its hold and lock the door after it. hmmm, thats one smart t rex.
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In the original Star Wars the Empire did not embrace the Force, they in fact looked at it as bullshit.
Lets not forget the conversation in the beginning of the first one In which Vader and crew had a conversation on the Deathstar.
'Don't try to frighten us with your Sorcerer's ways Lord Vader, your sad devotion to that ancient religion----ackkkk"
Thats around the time Vader made his Bitch ass tap out with a vicious choke hold from across the room.
Yet when Return of the Jedi comes around we find out that The Emperor himself was a Sorcerer? -
i dont think Trexs can dog paddle dude. at least thats what my old lady told me.who's that old lady?that's my old lady.
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That never bothered me as much because I could see The Emperor secretly pushing that belief. That way only him and Vader would actually follow it instead of having to worry about a bunch of other guys learning the Force and becoming a problem.
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Vader chokes one of the commanders on the screen (guy is miles away), so why didn't he do that to Luke in his X-Wing Fighter during Star Wars: A New Hope?
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maclane is meant to be afraid of flying but now he can fly a chopper, not really a plot hole more a plot helper, and one that destroys our heros credibility in a single swoop.
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i can see it now. Luke just flies right into the Death Star like Earnhardt. damn thats the coldest one.
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have they ever actually SAID that Kryptonite kills Superman? ive always been under the impression that it just neutralizes him. our sun is what makes him more powerful than us and the lack of Kryptonite. maybe im wrong. idunno
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They couldn't destroy the planet, and then the moon, because the original death star took an hour to re-charge its super-laser. Jedi's improved death star can re-charge its laser in mere minutes.Damn, I feel pathetic for knowing that (it was in one of the SW technical manuals that came out in the early 90's).
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took lessons to overcome his fear. think he explains that in film. i was drifting in and out so i dont blame you. next.
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and they were free. Now I don't have to waste my dollars on the whole movie. Sounds like the trouble here is the director and the writers. I don't feel I can blame the actors.
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i know they cant swim. actually i dont know that but im willing to bet they cant. THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION. one of my all time fav films, a masterpiece, frank darabont is a genius for making this one film, something i never thot id say abt a man who made The Majestic. anyway, here goes, andy du fresne keeps the same cell for 20 odd years, is that really believeable, im no expert on prison procedures but i doubt very much a man would keep the same cell for that long. secondly, when andy escapes, how the hell does he get into that shit pipe. the hole he makes in it is tiny and how did he make that hole anyway, a few bangs with a brick doesnt make a round hole in a large pipe, i dont think.
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Is Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman as friends. Black guy and white guy hanging out as friends in prison? Sorry, ain't going to happen.
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is overrated
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Where did he get the brick from?
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Star Trek is not a good, great,fun or entertaining movie.
Star Trek is just not as horrible as the rest of the shit that has come out yet. So please refrain from saying other wise. Here is a list of acceptable adjectives for describing the new Star Trek movie: arid, bromidic, characterless, cloying, colorless, commonplace, drab, drudging, dull, flat, humdrum, insipid, interminable, irksome, lifeless, monotonous, mundane, platitudinous, plebeian, prosaic, repetitious, routine, spiritless, stale, stereotyped, stodgy, stuffy, stupid, tame, tedious, tiresome, tiring, trite, unexciting, uninteresting, unvaried, vapid,and wearisome. -
They hail shit like Watchmen and the new Star Trek but shit on this movie? Let me tell you something, I could not give two shits about Terminator, but reading this review, you could say the same things about Watchmen and Star Trek. This site is in the tank, for some reason they've decided to hate this movie, for who knows what reason. But as always, they have an agenda, which in this case is probably trying to kiss JJ Abrams ass a bit more and try to help the grosses of Star Trek, but it's definitely something. This site makes no sense anymore.
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if you have working plans for a space station that can blow up planets, you're sure as fuck going to keep on building them. I mean, if you built say...a time machine...and then Bruce Willis or some asshole comes along and smashes it, are you gonna be like 'oh well, I guess I don't get to have a time machine' or are you just going to start right over with the only difference being you now have a guy guarding the door to your basement for six bucks an hour with a crumpled up picture of Bruce Willis in his pocket?
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Was it professional??? I heard it may not be.
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who can eat at a time like this?
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Wouldn't you at least but safety measure in place to keep assholes from flying in and blowing your shit up?
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Wouldn't you at least but safety measure in place to keep assholes from flying in and blowing your shit up?
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It has no horrible Jar Jar or annoying Jake Lloyd. Other than that though it's a throwaway story that doesn't gives us further knowledge of the war of man vs. machine. It's the story of Marcus. Who a character you will meet and then never hear about again since he has no further use in the story.
As a single film it's not a bad film, nothing great but still good. Just as part of the Terminator franchise it's a very bad addition. -
than his acting. So next time Bale interrupts Shane's lighting with his acting, Shane needs to go all 'guy who did the lighting on Scarface' on his ass.
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.... from red, cos he's the man who knows how to get things, prob cost him a pack of cigaretts but im sure he got his usual 10%. SPEED, again not so much a plot hole as a plot inplausibility, a bus full of passengers could blow up at any moment if the bus drops below 50 mph and once the driver is shot who takes over the driving duties, a civillian, a woman civillian, not the smart experienced tough cop who just jumped onto the bus to try save the day, only in the movies.
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They got rid of the hatch that triggers the entire destruction of the Death Star when you kick it, which imo was a pretty silly thing to put in in the first place, regardless of how Feng Shue it was. Let me ask you this, when they built the Internation Space Station, did they design it so that ships couldn't penetrate it and fly around inside, or did they just assume it wouldn't happen because that is some crazy shit.
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May 21, 2009 6:09:57 PM CDT
Jackgraham, I thought you needed a special license.....
by theycallmemrtibbs
to drive a bus.
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Did anybody notice how Skynet's plan in Salvation was eerily similar to that of Palaptine's? Both of them let "vital plans" leak to the rebel forces with the intention of getting all the rebellion's forces in one place and make them think that the shields (or in T4's case, the robots) were out of commission.
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Obi-Won says "Look at these blast marks. Only Imperial Storm Troopers could have such pin point accuracy."
Yet they can't hit the broadside of a Star Destroyer in the rest of the damn movie. -
It's a powerful disassociative that makes him come to terms with the futility of trying to protect what is ultimately a self-destructive race from themselves, and then he keels over in enrue.
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And he was trying not to shit his pants?
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New internet catch phrase!!!
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Han Solo goes from being a bad ass in ANH and ESB but in Jedi he has all the authority of a cuckold Nerf Herder. (Although his loss of masculinity may just be a side effect from the Carbonite Hibernation Sickness.)
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but before i fuck off to bed one last plot hole to chew on. BACK TO THE FUTURE ... marty travels back to 1955 and he must get his ma and pa to hook up to ensure his birth. mission accomplished, but isnt it odd that when martys back to 1985 ma and pa are not in awe that their son looks alot like their old friend from the 50's calvin klein, they guy that hooked them up and rode around on a skateboard, if i were george id be a bit worried as to who martys father is.
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Christian Bale doesn't generally sign on to hack jobs. Especially now that he's got Batman money. I'm wondering if the editors were told to hack this up.
I've heard reports that a "director's cut" on DVD would be significantly different, according to McG. I can't recall the original source, but IMDB ran a small piece with McG saying this. And not just the tiny cut he said was needed to get a PG-13.
Almost every review seems to be saying that it's all a jumble and I'm smelling "studio mandanted edit" here.
If you're reading this Quint, what do you and the AICN gang think? Could this be what happened? -
I love Star Wars, especially the OT, but Jedi is such a turd. There are good moments -- like the whole Luke / Vader resolution and the Final Space Battle -- but most of it is silly crap. Still, I have a fondness for the whole shebang mostly out of nostalgia. So, I do truly understand the love some of you have for T2. Your looking at through blinders -- the blinders of nostalgic love -- rather than the cold, critical eye. But you know, as much as I bust on it, I do understand and to some degree empathize. I just honestly think T2 is lame.
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And I think it was ok. Not great, like T1 and T2; not ridiculous, like T3.
It was an entirely different movie than it's predecessors, but set in the same universe. It's not a time-travel movie, it's not a man on the run movie, nor a horror movie. It's a science fiction war movie. If you wrap your mind around the fact that it's the characters and world you know, but an entirely different genre, you'll like the movie a lot better.
Still, lots of clunkiness in the story and dialogue. Seemed weak in the script more than the direction. And I don't believe that a second unit filmed the action because 80% of the movie was action. -
There was one for The last Die hard, not that it made the movie any better but I'm just saying.
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and I really liked it. It's biggest flaw is it had too many named actors in the character roles. If Barns and all his other lutenants were no name actors, we wouldnt give a shit about their character arc.. Don't believe the hate hype, go see it, it's a good film.
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YOU'LL BE DISAPPOINTED WITH SALVATION. McG did pretty damn good job in keeping the lore of Skynet and the ressistance. FUCK THE CRITICS !
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My thoughts almost exactly.
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So we are expected to believe that a teenage Reese can push a T-1000 and knock him to the ground to avoid the gunfire of the T-600. Good job Mccrap. 1 of a 1000 shitty things in your two hour waste of space.
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He didn't since there was no T-1000 in the movie.
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with 5 minutes footage NOT SAFE for theater viewing.
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Terminators in do-rags. What the fuck was that about?
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is a fucking idiot.
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They did make improvements like the energy shield, they just didn't think a bunch of fucking teddy bears would attack and WIN.-----also. to the LAST BOY SCOUT...ummmm it's not just this site that's loving Star WArs and not liking this movie...a lot of sites are.......SHAWSHANK--he got the brick cause hello he just tunneled through a prison wall I'm sure there was a brick in their somewhere.
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sorry, I'm drunk
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FUCK i'm wasted.
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RT tomatoes is an amalgam of different reviews throughout the country. It doesn't just rely on one review. If you read one review and always go by the reviewer then more power to you but don't say this site is the only one ragging on this film. That's why I was griping about your post. No, I haven't seen this movie but the rating, director, reviews, and the fact that John Conner is not the main character really turn me off on it...I can wait for blu ray or cable thank you.
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sucked. flat. dumb. not a Terminator movie.
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It brought us closer to Judgement Day than we had ever seen. The villain was crap, but Stahl had actual emotion. Bale's Conner could have been replaced with a mannequin and a tape recorder and no one would have noticed. There are many more cringeworthy moments in Terminator Stagflation, than T-3. Take my heart please.
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i wish to join the church of bale,where do i sign up???
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I just got back from seeing it and honestly I loved it...are there plot holes..sure are...there are plot holes in Star Treck and everyone has J.J.'s balls in their mouth so you can't speak...I have a feeling this site, Quint, Mass, Harry all wanted to hate it, went in knowing deep down you wanted to hate it and you did. I for one found it great...as you guys were talking about it, i excepted the film school verson of T4 and it's not.
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news flash - the majority of those people ARE NOT FAN BOYS...the idiots talking about how its impossible to 'please jaded fan boys' are talking out their asses. Those critics are as mainstream as any sample off the street in any city in the nation. Yes, its sad to say, but the reason why its 33% is because people think it sucks! ORDINARY PEOPLE. Just accept it.
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May 21, 2009 8:18:28 PM CDT
List of Part 4's that are better than Terminator: Salvation
by tylerdurden3395
Star Wars (Technically a Part 4)
Rocky 4
Land of the Dead
Rambo
Bride of Chucky
Return to Sleepaway Camp
Citizen Toxie: The Toxic Avenger 4
Alien: Resurrection
Thunderball
Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home
Friday the 13th 4: The Final Chapter
A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master
Live Free and Die Hard
The Substitute 4: Failure is Not an Option
Lethal Weapon 4
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers
Death Wish 4: The Crackdown
Police Academy 4: Citizens on Patrol
The Devil in Ms. Jones 4: The Final Outrage
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Y because a guy named fucking Mc G was in charge. Wow, way to blow it smart guys. EAT DICK.
In a way tho I feel this steaming turd redeems the mostly awesome television show that often captured the spirit of the films and even built on them.
and had Summer who is a fucking goddess and will hopefully play WW someday. -
They did that shit three times already. It's old, it's stale, and T3's use of time travel both ruined the entire series' continuity and INVALIDATED Terminator and T2. Do you REALLY want to see ANOTHER tired old time travel story line? How many times do you want them to keep on churning out the same old future protector bullshit? Getting rid of time travel (and Arnold) is the best fucking thing that can happen to this series.
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Terminator Salvation
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i love the Terminator series, I love the stories and the characters. T3 was okay but wasnt the greatest.
T4 I thought was really really well done to be honest. I saw the midnight showing and the place was sold out. Lots of people liked it and cheered. I love the Arnold moment. I love Sam Worthington's acting too, he did a good job, as did Anton and Bale. Ya some parts were a tad flawed but it kept me on the edge of my seat and I didn't want it to end. I can't wait for the next one.
Actually... I wanna go see Terminator Salvation again. -
New shitty website!!!
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great moment. Screw the haters. I loved the movie.
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The terminators are giving John Connor an a$$ whuppin. So he goes and trains in Afghanistan with the Jihadis.
He brings the Jihadis to America and they give the Terminators an Ass-whuppin.
MC G is not involved. -
And not the good hum you want from a ho.I felt like going to sleep near the end, except when they nuked the Skynet place (I was wondering why the EMP didn't make 'em crash).
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but if theyre gonna do it right, they need to show Reese going back. at least stepping through chamber. in an early T2 draft, there was an extended FUTURE scene that had this. it was interesting but wasnt essential to that story. if they "must" do future war trilogy, then they need to show Reese jumping, to come full circle.
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Ten seconds later he was gone. Seriously, he was in The Rundown for longer than that. Was that digital face painting THAT expensive that they could only do it for ten seconds. Weak.
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Was used pretty well in the movie. I wish the Arnold scene was longer too. I didn't need another metal robot attack at the end. With all those fucking robots in the factory only ONE attacks?
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thats gonna really crush LaserPants. thats a shame.
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did kyle reese know that he had to fuck sarah connor when he went back it time? was that part of his mission?
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But I laughed when I heard it. It's in a cool scene, actually.
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I just got back from this aborted fetus of a film Terminator. yes. It's THAT bad. I can't recall the lst time a film left such a bad taste in my mouth, maybe Stop or My Mom will shoot. Yes. It's THAT bad.
No tension, no drama, no build-up, Bale isn't even at his A-game. Hell, it's fucking sad when the biggest moment of the movie is a CGI fake Arnold for 3 seconds.
A guy yelled THAT SUCKED when the credits rolled. He expressed what the other 5 of us in the theater were thinking. -
I don't think so, but... imagine Connor telling Reese "Alright buddy, time to come clean. I am your son, so make sure to fuck my mom (rape not allowed) in order for me to be here... and you most likely are going to die. Bye-bye."
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cant wait to see it again.
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T1 is my favorite movie of all time, and T2 is my second favorite. I even registered on this site almost 4 years ago, just to post on the Terminator forums. I've been posting on Terminator boards here and over at TerminatorFiles.net for a long time now. Don't even bother calling me a plant.
Anyway, I thought T3 was awful, and a terrible follow-up to T2. T3 basically created a bunch of stupid new plot holes just so they could re-hash the same "Terminator goes back in time to kill a Connor family member" formula. In T2, you grew to really like the T-101, and when he had to terminate himself at the end, it was an emotional moment, especially with John crying, begging him not to do it. T2 had heart. T3 had no heart. Arnold had some funny moments in T3, but for the most part, the new T-101 was not likeable, and you didn't feel much connection to it, and the ending was emotionless and bland, whereas T2's ending was powerful and moving.
T4 brings back that emotional element, and I think it worked well. You can feel the desperation the resistance members have, in their war against the machines, and the characters are more likeable and vulnerable, whereas in T3, Kate Brewster was not likeable at all, and John Connor essentially turned into an annoying whimp. When Marcus decides to sacrifice himself to save John Connor, that was a pretty powerful moment there, and it reminded me of the ending to T2. T4 is already underrated, on the day of it's release. It's a shame. The exaggerating, negative fanboys are ruining it for everyone. I saw this smovie, and as a hardcore Terminator fan, I was blown away. When that iconic theme played an the Terminator logo flashed on the screen, it was just... incredible.
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Time travel is awesome. It separates the story from all other killer robot futures and could have been used differently than before. Even just conceptually as something Skynet is trying to achieve. The Terminators and the Conners have never absorbed the fact that they can't change their origin time line, only create alternate timelines. I always wanted this to be addressed. The proof for this argument is that John did not vanish at the end of T2.
I would have loved a great movie that takes place in the future-horror of robo genicide, but they fucked it up. Alternate timeline Terminators appearing from even farther in the future trying to stop themselves from destroying their makers? cudabeencool. -
I would watch this every week, instead of that shit "The Turk". AHHH Every week "The Turk"! WTF!!!
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DUMBEST MOVIE PLOT HOLE EVER - all skynet has to do is shoot kyle in the head when he is captured and verified!!! Dead Kyle = end of movie-John doesn't exist fade to black. I was sitting there thinking hmmm this could be interesting when they kill Kyle how will they explain all of this but noooo = Que explosions and some stupid heart to heart transplant. COME ON GUYS!WAKE UP!
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Maybe the Termunators planned to perform the same procedure on Kyle they did to Marcus?
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May 21, 2009 11:59:47 PM CDT
The Terminator chronology makes sense, if you think about it
by neodevilbanex
My thoughts on the Terminator chronology:
Way I see it, everything beyond the ending of T3 is pretty much uncharted territory... we're in a new timeline now. I mean, the events of T1, T2, and T3, and even TS in the "present day" all happen exactly as we saw.. but the future timeline changed as a result of the time-travelling in T2 and T3.
The events of the timeline can't be rectified into a singular timeline. T2 changed the timeline, and T3 changed it again. What we have is a bunch of alternate timelines being created every time the movies mess with the future again.
In the first timeline, SkyNET went live in 1997 via CyberDyne Systems, nukes and countermeasures exchanged with Russia, Judgement Day. Kyle Reese is sent back in 2029 by John Connor.
In the second timeline, Judgement Day is averted, postponed until 2004 where it goes via Cyber Research Systems/CRS (instead of CyberDyne, destroyed in 1994/95 in T2). In 2032, John is killed by a T-850 just after he and his top lieutenants score a triumphant victory over SkyNET.
In the third timeline in the aftermath of T3, Judgement Day really did happen in 2004 via CRS, John may or may not still be killed by a T-850 in 2032 (probably not, since he would certainly see it coming this time), but now all of his top lieutenants are dead (killed by the T-X in 2004).
It's not clear if John sending Kyle back in time to meet his mother still goes on schedule in 2029 in either of the latter timelines (it's possibly everything that happened in 2029 just got bumped to 2032, happening more or less the same).
What we DO know is that even if John, now, in the current third timeline, sends Kyle Reese back to 1984 to meet his mother, it wouldn't play out exactly as it did in T1. Kyle would tell her Judgement Day happens in 2004, not 1997; Kyle would tell her Arnie is a Cyber Research Systems T-800, Model 101, not CyberDyne, etc., etc..
Further corrupting the issue would be this : In this new timeline, the T-800 in T2 would tell Sarah Connor that Miles Bennet Dyson was NOT responsible for the creation of SkyNET (and in 2004 rather than 1997) but rather Robert Brewster, and CyberDyne systems was NOT responsible but rather Cyber Research Systems. So Sarah would go after CRS in T2 instead of CyberDyne, meanwhile CyberDyne would STILL have the arm and chip from T1, even in an altered timeline. So, Sarah blows up CRS instead of CyberDyne in T2 (in this new timeline), meanwhile CyberDyne goes on to launch SkyNet on schedule in 1997 potentially!
As such, it's really almost easier to rectify if John does NOTHING in this new timeline -- doesn't send Kyle back, only watches his back for T-850s in 2032. I don't believe time travel is such that if John doesn't send Kyle back he'll just vanish in the present (that implies there's some kind of time police Force that knows who is supposed to exist or not and then erases them like in Back to the Future, which is absurd)... what we have here is alternate timelines, branches if you will, each one with different events.
An endless loops of 1997 => 2004 => 1997 => 2004 => 1997 and on and on. It actually works if you really think about it. -
May 22, 2009 2:19:10 AM CDT
Continentalop:Here's how Vader force choked someone from afar!
by ganymede3010
It takes an astronomical amount of hate pull to off that particular maneuver. Vader couldn't conjure the emotional rage needed to force choke Luke from afar, why? Because he knew it was his Son. Vader killed everyone besides Luke and Leia. Coincidence? I think not.
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Well, I just came back from seeing the movie. And it wasn't AS bad as Harry made it out to be, Although I do agree that "empty spectacle" could be thrown at it. But it was an entertaining film. and I could see what McG was TRYING to do. He just ended up doing what Lucas did with the last three Star Wars films.
If you folks go and watch the making of for "The Phantom Menace" you'll see Lucas spending a great deal of time on one scene on the bridge of Queen Amidalas ship. He spent quite a bit of time on getting Capt. Panaka's position on the bridge juuuust so.
And in doing so totally lost site of the bigger picture.
And I think that's what happened here. McG spent so much time on getting the explosions and effects just so, he forgot to tell a story. So That's why the movie feels so empty at the end. Although I do have to congratulate McG with the Arnold terminator. I for the life of me couldn't detect the CGI that went into that.
And to everyone here who feels that this movie let you down and totally destroyed what had happened before...
Well now you fuckers know how the Star Trek movie made me feel.
Welcome to the pain. -
Vader didn't know Luke was his son in Episode IV. He just thought he was another pilot in an X-Wing Fighter.
By the way, definition of film geeks: two guys debating why Vader couldn't use the Force to choke Luke from a distance. -
Damn you, McG!
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Yes it's a plot hole. But if you only realize just then, the joke's on you. Ask yourself this. Why if Skynet did kill Reese? John Connor would immediately vanish (like Back to the Future movies)? Of course this makes absolutely no sense. Killing Reese before he goes back in time would mean John Connor WOULD HAVE NEVER EXISTED in the first place. That is the plot hole and the paradox of all time travel stories. That is also the plot hole in T2. If they were able to stop Skynet all terminators would NEVER EXISTED. No Arnold, No T-1000, No Kyle Reese, No John Connor. The only thing good about T3 is saying Judgment Day is inevitable.
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If you dig Terminator and dig music, by all means, check out the Terminator #1 soundtrack. It is awesome. Maybe half of it is very dated 80s synth-and-guitar music, but that ain't bad. There are some really greate variations on the main Terminator theme. Fidel rules.
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Alright, WHEN did the "original" timeline diverge into an alternate timeline? When Kyle Reese and the first Terminator went back? No, the first movie states exactly the OPPOSITE. Reese and the Terminator travelling back didn't cause an ALTERNATE timeline, it caused the ORIGINAL timeline. There are no alternate timelines, because there is NO event that could set our characters onto an alternate timeline. The presence of the arm and computer chip doesn't do it, because the arm and computer chip were ALWAYS there just as Kyle Reese was always there. Destroying the computer chip doesn't do shit either, because that happens IN THE ORIGINAL TIMELINE. Alternate timelines DO NOT WORK. If we're in an alternate timeline, then WHEN did that occur, and WHAT was the event that set eeveryone onto an alternate timeline?
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You're confusing "plot holes" with paradoxes. They can't destroy skynet because it's a paradox but killing kyle reese would not be a paradox because the existence of JOhn Connor never effected wether or not skynet would be born or not.
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I do understand the arm and chip left in T1 influenced Dyson to build that shit but t3 goes on to say it was something else. I believe it is the point that skynet would exist no matter what.
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WHAT A SHOCKER, ANOTHER FAILURE WE CAN'T ADMIT IS BAD
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1. Why didn't Vader force choke Luke when he choked the guy on the holo-screen miles away? Simple, at no time in SW does he actually SEE Luke face to face and by the time Empire comes around, Luke has some skills and perhaps the Vader at that time wouldn't force choke a worthy opponent? (that was knocked when he force choked his wife in the prequels but I ignore those crappy shit films).Shawshank: black guy and white guy as friends? Today? Yeah, likely never happen but in the 40/50's? It's possible (yes even in the midst of all the racial bullshit and you'll notice it was really Freeman's character hanging out with a bunch of white guys the whole time...perhaps he pissed of the wrong person and was exiled? IIRC the book talks about that a bit here and there).Superman Returns plot holes: uhh..totally correct and this movie sucks giant ass because of them. Get's stabbed with a 4-5inch thin kryptonite "knife" but yet 10 minutes later he's magically impervious to a whole continent where kryptonite crystals are growing right into his face but yet he manages to ignore them and lift the continent into space? And that doesn't bring up the lotto like odds of falling right back into Metropolis! Bad plot holes!T2: I've discussed the supposed "plot holes" in this movie before and I will argue that the "plot holes" you perceive are really you're hesitancy to imagine how it might be possible (as were talking technology that doesn't exist and was built by artificially intelligent robots). But the issue off actual story plot holes is far more relevant. After the "Terminatrix" they screwed themselves because of the most glaringly obvious: why not send a mobile 'walking' bomb encased in flesh? Locate Conner and blow the fucking city up. Problem solved. But I feel many of those plot holes only became apparent after T3 came in and totally screwed the entire storyline over. The T-1000 had limitations and though part of my 'plot hole' argument that the skin he uses is real skin stored and maintained within his "body", he was still seemingly incapable of bringing back plasma weapons, etc. Other plot holes would likely be related to competing theories of what might actually happen when you travel through time. Is it the Doc Brown linear model? Or the Schrodinger infinite universe model?And arguing plot holes in these movies is very much a movie geek thing to do which is exactly correct...aren't we all movie geeks? There's no room for geek self loathing and there absolutely IS a difference between discussing whether or not Vader could force choke luke in his X-wing versus dressing up like a Jedi with a lightsaber purchased from Thinkgeek and camping out for a week for the prequel films. I think all of us are movie geeks but these movies do not define us as people...that is left to the nerd and dork crew. (how do you tell the difference? nerds and dorks are obvious..you only know if someone is a geek when you know it).
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equals "making shit up." If it's all in the viewer's imagination, it's not a fucking explanation. Try hard enough and you can come up with a hundred different scenarios for why "it might be possible" for the T-X to not use its nukes to kill John Connor. And all of those explanations will be bullshit.
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this movies sucks, no you're wrong it's great, no you suck for thinking that way diatribes. I'm not even going to post something different on all the talbacks on T4. I'm going to write this, copy and paste once and be done with it. There are spoilers so be careful. I don't have time to read all the comments, so excuse me if I'm repetitive. First, I'm glad TSCC was cancelled right before this came out. I had hopes for the show. It's not a bad show, but I just can't get over them changing the canon of oh wait well now machines really can travel to the past, oh by the way we put our own cells in the fifties, and instead of having them find Sarah and save her they'll just sit around. Having said that T4 is visually a good film. We expected that from McG although there were moments when it did look like we were watching Transformers or The Matrix. This was a kick ass action film. But, is that enough for Terminator fans. I suggest no one spout off on this movie until they see it. The one point that really bugs me is this. If Marcus was programmed to infiltrate the resistance so he could kill Reese and Connor why didn't he just do it when he first met them both. He had the chance. He didn't have to lure them back to skynet. The only thing I can think of is maybe his programming could not go that far. To make him believe he is human, which he is I suppose, they couldn't have him side with the machines and kill them outright. Another thing that bugged me is the fact that all of a sudden the machines know Reese is the father of Connor. That means they know they will invent time travel. They didn't know Reese was the father before, so why do they know now. And, if they did, why didn't they kill him when they first captured him. Look fellow nerds is it a perfect movie, of course not. It is a good movie with a few sticking points. I don't see any of you going out there and making a movie.
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In a word: duh! Of course it's 'making shit up' it's how these things happen. You have an idea for a story you made up...you write it...and viola..hopefully it doesnt suck and others get to enjoy it. Sometimes, a greater degree of enjoyment can come from putting yourself inside the story and understanding motive and even the outlandish side of sci-fi tech.I won't argue opinion and I wasn't involved in production so you could very well be right in your implication that Cameron completely overlooked the riidiculously obvious concept from the first film of 'only something alive can travel through time' and created a T-1000 terminator covered in flesh and cloth looking metal. Yet when the T-1000 just decided to "turn into a silver guy" since he's just a blob of liquid metal? Why? Why ever change color if he's 100% liquid metal? As in drops of metal working together how? Or maybe far more likely nanotech? Listen to the commentary and you'll understand more. I immediately thought of the T-1000 as a kind of tech version of the metamorph alien in The Thing. But I'm sure you think that's stupid and impossible too as nothing on Earth can shapeshift so completely, etc..we can't do it so neither can they, etc, etc.Again, I state my case not to prove you wrong but to avoid the devolution of cinema into something that never ever requires you to think. This neo-cinematic experience would presume that you will never "get" anything they show so each and every thing has to be explained so the viewer is not lost from the story (anathema to the cinematic experience obviously). So your high maintenance 'suspension of disbelief' can be held aloft by constant exposition.And then you'll come here after seeing the movie and complain how everything was conveniently explained by the most awkward and idiotic plot exposition. Some directors will just have a narrator talking the whole time.You'll disagree with me of course and that's how a 'geek' debate goes but I still think there's a fine line between true plot holes and people not bothering to consider how something might occur that's not overtly impossible given character motivation or previous tech exposition.
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that SUPPORTS your idea. There is none. The T-1000 is EXPLICITLY described as liquid metal. It is very clearly stated that metal cannot go back without being covered by living tissue. That IS a very clear and direct contradiction. And without THE MOVIE providing any indication for how this could be, IT IS A PLOT HOLE. Making up your own fan-fiction does not change that. Try hard enough, and a viewer can explain away ANY plot hole or inconsistency. But it is the FILMMAKER'S job to make a movie make sense. ANY time that you have to make up your own bad fan-fiction in order to explain away an inconsistency, then the filmmaker hasn't done his job. And there is a huge difference between making shit up and interpretting the available evidence a certain way. For example, Terminator Salvation's plot hole about how Skynet knows about Kyle Reese. That is a plot hole. It's not a plot hole because they failed to explain how Skynet knows about Kyle Reese. It's a plot hole because Skynet should NOT know about Kyle Reese. Now I am certainly free to imagine scenarios in which Skynet somehow could have learned about Kyle Reese, but that's STILL a plothole. Because what's IN the movie is contradictory to the series, and my pseudo-explanation is NOT part of the movie.
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nice point on Danny Elfman
http://tinyurl.com/os54rw
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I'm sorry but you are wrong. The existance of John Connor depends on the born of Skynet. The ending of T2 suggests Skynet would not exist in future, thus Kyle Reese would not be sent back in time to protect Sarah Connor, and thus no John Connor.
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May 22, 2009 12:04:57 PM CDT
Plot Holes Part deux ... Rise of the plot holes ... again
by jackgraham
Superman 2, so clark has given up his powers to be with lois, and then realises what a big mistake he's made after being beat up by a junk food guzzling red neck and witnessing on t.v zod and his gang on earth causing mayhem and destruction. so clark decides he must go back to his kryptonium ice pad and regain his powers to defeat zod. you know whats coming dont you. clark walks back, seemingly very quickly and still alive, despite having walked thousands of miles through zero temperatures .... also, at the very end when lois asks clark for a burger and an orange juice, freshly squeezed of course, our hero winds up at the same grill wearing the same clothes he got beat up in and decides to harm a civilian just to get even, very un civilised mister saviour of the earth and hardly super behaviour, shame on you, still glad you did it tho, i hate red necks.
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Harry tells Doc Ock that in order to find Spider-Man he must find Peter first. Doc Ock finds Peter with Mary Jane in the cafe and throws a car through the window straight at them. Any normal man would've been killed instantly, and Doc Ock doesn't know that Peter is Spider-Man. Given that Peter is his only lead on Spider-Man, it makes no sense that Doc Ock would effectively try to kill him by lobbing a car in his face.
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I just can't buy it. Yeah, it was in the 40's and 50's before the prison gangs took over, but it also took place in a time when America was more racist and segregated. And even if Morgan was exiled I couldn't see him hanging out with some white guys because one of the black inmates would have shanked him. Plus, never once was race ever brought up in the movie? Jail and prison is the most racist place on earth, bar none.
Personal note, I was in LA Country jail for 30 days and that ended up being in a mini-prison. In jail the whites, blacks and mexicans would forceable segregate us and we were not allowed to talk or interact with members of the other groups. If I did, the white guys would have pounded my ass and than after that I would have been left open to be victimized by the blacks or one of the two Mexican gangs (one is connected to La Eme and reps the US born mexican and latino immigrants, the other is connected to Nuestra Familia and represents the recent immigrants). You hanged out, talked and interacted with only members of your race. And being a white guy means you are on the bottom of the totem pole - our group was forced to line up last to get food and if you wanted to use the shower after a black guy used it, you had to ask his permission first (he was obligated to give it but it was set up so the black guys could finally put the white guys down a little now that the power situation was reversed inside). And this was jail, not prison (although I did find out later that many people think LA County is worse than most prisons).
I know the 1940's might have been different, but not so different that race had to be ignored. Shawshank is a great movie, but the lack of recognizing race is a huge gaping plot hole. -
You know how the machines are harvesting humans to use our body heat as energy? Well, considering that the machines still have to FEED the humans, aren't they being a bit inefficient? Wouldn't it be better to kill off the humans entirely? Then they could take what they are FEEDING to humans and find a way to convert THAT into energy.
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actually, it makes more sense if you believe the humans working the time displacement machine didn't know how it really worked.
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--Where a Terminator was sent back and tried to kill Sarah while she was giving birth to John.
Sky-net sent back a bunch of Terminators to randomly attack them in different periods of they're lives.
I guess that's why it was easy for me to digest the events that occurred in T-3 because I enjoyed some of the concepts that were played around with in the comics.
Being A fan of the Terminator, I allowed myself to open up to different interpretations of the genre.
True Sky-net was technically destroyed in the second one, but why wouldn't Skynet send the T-X back for a different mission right after sending back the T-1000?
T-X's mission was different from the T-1000's. He was sent back to kill John. Sky-net also realized John's Lieutenants as being potential threats so the T-X was sent back to kill them.
John was considered to be dead " Off the grid", The T-X assumed John was dealt with because right when she sampled his blood on that piece of gauze she went ape shit.
So with that I enjoyed the movie as much as the others.
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Because...it's impossible to build better time machines that don't have that restriction, right? Sort of like...how back in the 1930s it was impossible for cars to drive themselves, or go 180mph, yet now it is...see the connection here? If the statement that only living flesh can pass through the time machine was made AFTER the T-1000 came through, then it would be a contradiction. The only thing we know for sure is that the time machine that sent back the T-800 could only send living tissue. And that's a fact. Obviously we can see they've made some enormous technological advances, I think it's safe to assume they might have tweaked their time machine technology a little. Besides, there is no scientific reason for a time machine to only allow organic material to pass through anyway, so they should have never said it in the first place. It's like saying 'I have a time machine that only legos in the shapes of pirate ships can pass through. Legos in any other configuration will not work. Don't blame me, blame science!'
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have nothing to do with it. The audience is quite simply not supposed to think that hard about it. If the Terminator had gone through in Silver Surfer mode, then the audience would have called BS. So if the T-1000 has living tissue in it, or otherwise does not NEED to have living tissue, then why does it go back naked? We're supposed to look at the T-1000, see that it LOOKS like a naked flesh-and-blood human, and then not put any more thought into it. If it still needs living tissue, then it shouldn't be able to go back. If it DOESN'T need living tissue, then it shouldn't have gone back naked (with it being an infiltrator, a naked dude sort of stands out).
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the machines liquefied the dead to feed the humans...so it actually was the perfect closed system - nothing needed to be added...
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assuming that we are talking about humans that do not grow, have no metabolism, and do not expend energy. Take a closed system of humans, feed dead humans to the living humans, and the population of living humans declines exponentially. Life cannot exist in a closed system, that's why we need the sun.
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well, not to get too into that argument - it is a movie afterall, but if machines are intelligent enough to have consciousness, then I am sure they'd figure out a way to balance it out...The sun is part of our 'closed' system.
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I enjoyed this movie from start to finish, much better than that campy hollow bag of shit called star trek. The action scenes were great; the Marcus character stole the show, though Bail seemed like an after thought. The kid who plays Reese is too wimpy; he screams high school thespian. I’m sick of Hollywood promoting feminine males as action heroes. I just picture this fruit getting his nails done before the shoot. Other than that, the movie was great, better than the last film with the even more wimpy portrayal of John Connor by Nick Stahl. Stahl is just plain terrible, a shia lebuef type. No, I don’t care how to spell their names.
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But this film is hardly hollow and lifeless. The action was impeccable, Digi-Arnold looked great, Yelchin nailed it, Bale was excellent. I found the story to be well executed for what it was: A first chapter. This is an origin story. Yes, we all know the history of the characters- but this is clearly the set up film of what they say is a trilogy.
We can nitpick and say that Connor or Reese should have been the protagonist, but they weren't. We did not write the movie, others did. This is easily the best thing McG has done. I thought it was far superior a film than #3, and it was definitely knocking on the door of #1. Still love ya though Quint. -
I actually thought he nailed it. I was worried that he'd be wimpy, but he did an excellent job of channeling Michael Biehn's attitude and mannerisms without coming off as mere impersonation. As far as I'm concerned, he truly BECAME Kyle Reese, and I absolutely look forward to seeing more of him in the role.
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Thank you to everyone who understands that you can like a bad movie but that doesn't mean it's not flawed, and vice-versa. People tell me they loved Transformers - fine. Just don't try to sell it to me as a "great" movie. Watched JAWS this morning and while counting the seconds of silence as Brody pours the wine, thought, are movies allowed to have such moments anymore? Seems few and far between. Oh, heh, and good review Quint. Haven't seen it yet. (Man, just realized Quint's review and I watched JAWS. Oh that's rich! Oh irony!) Damn I suck. Lol!
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I will admit to those who go on about haters, that yes, after Episode II (really before but after, "hey, let's replace Maul with someone older than Palpatine himself, that sounds just peachy - if not mysterious, lol!Clone sith? Why, when we can clone Bob from accounting!" And let's have a mercenary in disguise use his real name, Jango! "What are you?" "I'm Bruce Wayne!"), I had had it. I enjoyed ripping the hell out of that movie. And many since. I am addicted to it. Sad, but true. I am sick of liking (if not hating) these movies. I used to LOVE these movies. So, if I can't walk out of the theatre with the feeling of not getting back quick enough and looking forward to the blu-ray release, I would rather hate it. At least then my friends and I can sit aorund with some beer and just vent. Thank God for Jackson and Nolan and a few others. "Did you want Hamlet?" NO! I wanted what I got when I was nine and went into Raiders. I hate that argument. And I hate that we have to glean the good stuff and make ourselves believe something is good when it isn't. Again, if you truly like something, that doesn't apply. Okay, end of speech.