Cool News
Oscar Michael Foxtrot Golfclub!! Fox Net Gives Joss Whedon's DOLLHOUSE A Second Season!!!
I am – Hercules!!
James Hibberd over at the Hollywood Reporter is reporting that Fox on Monday will announce that “Dollhouse” is getting a 13-episode second season.
Fox announces its 2009-2010 schedules on Monday.
Great news for those who remember that “Dollhouse” creator Joss Whedon’s “Buffy The Vampire Slayer” got a LOT better right after its 12-episode first season (with the introduction of Spike, Drusilla, Oz, Jenny Calendar and whatnot).
Maybe Summer Glau can join the cast as Foxtrot?
“Dollhouse’s” first season fared poorly in Fox’s Friday Night Death Slot, but consistently better than anything else Fox was airing that night.
Also, one suspects the execs at Fox looked at their pilots and muttered something like, “None of these is anywhere NEAR as promising as that show with the ‘Bring It On’ girl.”
Fox is reportedly looking for budget cuts on the series, but that may not be a big issue for Whedon, who made the DVD smash “Dr. Horrible’s Sing-A-Long Blog” for the cost of shoelaces and beer and reportedly directed an (as-yet-unaired) bonus episode of “Dollhouse” titled “Epitaph One” for about half the cost of a regular episode.
Find all of Hibberd’s story on the matter here.
Follow Herc on Twitter!
Dollhouse: Season One!!
Dollhouse: Season One On Blu-ray!!
Season Two On DVD & Blu-ray!!
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DS9, Voyager & Enterprise: $37.99 Or Less!!
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Dollhouse: Season One!!
Dollhouse: Season One On Blu-ray!!
Season Two On DVD & Blu-ray!!
$18.99 Complete Animated Trek!!
DS9, Voyager & Enterprise: $37.99 Or Less!!
SALE TREK!!
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terrible show
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Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles is infinitely more interesting a show, even if Dollhouse DOES feature Eliza Dushku half naked. Summer Glau in her bra and panties >>>>> Eliza Dushku and convuluted plot devices
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...kept getting better and better each weak. Oh, well.
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I got a cupcake with your name on it!
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Give this show a chance to blossom!
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But figured the show was toast so didn't bother to go back and watch them. Looks like I'll be watching on Hulu this weekend.
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What about Terminator?
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But I told you so. Probably back in the Death Slot though. Please bring on Summer Glau.
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Did it really get better this season?
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Sadly, Reaper is still a "goner". Sigh.
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I agree- I would rather see the Sarah Connor Chronicles. But even more than that, I would rather see both shows canned so we can see something different.
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Further proof of Whedon's pact with Satan.
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May 15, 2009 2:29:28 PM CDT
Yeah but Buffy the Vampire Slayer always had potential
by cotton mcknight
It was about a girl who could slay vampires, after all. In the first season you realized there was a serious tone to it and that a mythology was being created. Dollhouse though, I don't know man. It's such a retarded idea.
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Thats the Jesus version of Joss Whedon.
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Now you love it? You guys are schizophrenics I swear.
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If a shit show like Dollhouse could get renewed, then the best sci-fi show on regular TV should EASILY be renewed! Fuck Dollhouse!
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Man I still miss BSG.
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That's right I said it.
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but getting gloat-prepared! Hell yeah. This show has always had waaay more potential than Terminator, which is hampered by a burnt out franchise, a prequel/sequel setup, boring writing, dour, apocalyptic plots, one-note characters and wooden acting. Whereas Dollhouse has incredibly talented people behind the camera and on camera, an actual sense of humor (though not as much as Whedon's other shows), complex, PKD-esque ideas, and a fascinating meta-critique of the Hollywood system. This is quietly revolutionary stuff, and maybe, just maybe, Fox knew they had something special on their hands. As the 2nd half of the season proved, this show could become anything (like a doll). It's easily as interesting as Fringe, which also improved considerably in the 2nd half of the season. So suck it, haters! The Dollhouse (and the Dollhouse talkback) will go on! btw, I love Summer Glau as Foxtrot!
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This is so surreal. As a Whedonite, I still won't believe until I see it.
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Than the Terminator franchise has taken in T3 and two seasonf of a TV show. Terminator continues to jerk us off but always stopping just before we cum. God dammit GET TO THE FUCKING WAR IN THE FUTURE ALREADY!
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Confirmation tweet by Ausiello: "I'm hearing this as well. Probably 13-episode p/u"
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May 15, 2009 2:40:55 PM CDT
Budget Cuts: It will be an actual dollhouse... with DOLLS!
by yotzvonfrelnik
And it would still rock! Hey, it worked for an entire episode of Angel. Well, several dolls there.
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Fox figures it can make money back on DVD sales, and eventual syndication, thanks to the Whedon name...
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"Latest TV pilot buzz: Fox picked up the sitcom "Brothers," w/ Michael Strahan and Darryl Chill Mitchell; and "Dollhouse" will likely return."
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May 15, 2009 2:47:13 PM CDT
If it was with actual dolls, then at least the acting would be b
by hb_dad
There, I said it!
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Its toying with identity, free will, sex issues is amazing, and there was a lot going right with "Omega" (Caroline looking at herself from another body, Whiskey) even as the A-plot felt very rushed (Alpha escapes, Ballard joins DH staff w/little exposition). FOX is better with it than without. I think it may turn out to be among Joss' best work, because it's so cold, difficult and challenging - not warm and fuzzy like BTVS and Firefly could be.
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It ends tonight in all it's "put it out of it's misery" glory.
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Just wanted to correct this information. Check the ratings on TVBytheNumbers if you like, T:SCC got higher ratings than Dollhouse EXCEPT for the first three weeks of Dollhouse. Otherwise it always beat it. Dollhouse did beat Prison Break's final eps by a smidge however.
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http://tinyurl.com/odtqwk
"As Fox preps for its upfront presentation on Monday, the net is said to be on the verge of renewing Joss Whedon's frosh drama "Dollhouse," and it has added another laffer to its frosh slate for the 2009-10 season.
Word spread Friday ayem that "Dollhouse" is looking good for a 13-episode sophomore renewal and is likely to stay in its Friday night berth. The 20th Century Fox TV fantasy drama starring Eliza Dushku has delivered modest but consistent ratings on a low-trafficked night, thanks to Whedon's built-in fan base."
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They should shorten the season and not have filler.Plus wouldn't it be called T:JCC cause I don't want to watch Sarah on the lamb with the fbi guy for even half a season.
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if it continues to air.
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I thin everyone agrees they would have preferred to see this happen with any OTHER of Joss' shows. Oh well, maybe he's got a kickass ARC-heavy plan for season 2 that will interest me. Look at that, I didn't think I'd be saying "Oh well" about a Whedon RENEWAL, but here I am.
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I just hope that the narrative shifts away from Echo. Her "original" personality is annoying and Dushku is a pretty weak actress. Give more to Olivia Williams and Harry Lennix and I'm sold on season 2.
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Trying to scowl at people. Hilarious.
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Shorter seasons often mean better shows. It works for cable, it works for BBC. Tastes great, less filler.
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We probably won't hear anything regarding the series until the opening weekend numbers come out for Salvation. If the #s are good, I can almost guarantee it will be back with slight retooling (ie, they will try to tie in the movie with the series alot more...Cameron reimagined a la Marcus? Kate Brewster?)
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Fuck you, Whedon Haters! Fuck! You!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -
...with the worst actors on TV!
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1) Shirley Manson was on Craig Ferguson's show a few weeks ago and said that the show was over and she was unemployed again, so I see no chance of a surprise renewal for Terminator, though I did like the show and loved the cliffhanger season 2 ending.
2) oisin5199, a 13 ep order doesn't mean they will only do a 13 ep season. It most likely means they ordered 13 eps and if it does well enough they will order a back 9. With Terminator gone and Idol/24 starting in Jan., Dollhouse will prob start in the fall and if all goes well continue through with the last 9. Or end after the 13 for good. -
I'm sorry one note John Conner and his boring mom were WAY more impressive...*eye roll*
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Regardless of the un-needed hate, this is the SERIES finale. Bah GAWD!
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Dollhouse is worth saving. Given a choice, I'd rather have T:SCC; given even more choice, I'd rather have both.
But Dollhouse shows a lot of promise of interesting and complicated story arcs in the future. I hope that Fox execs take the long tail into account, and realize that, even if ratings aren't great, there is money to be made for potentially DECADES from the right type of genre show. "Lie to me" may be a decent show, for instance, with better ratings than Dollhouse, but nobody is going to be buying it on DVD three years from now. -
Stop lying.
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Never. Total viewers is not as important as the demo. Go to any ratings site and read for a bit and you'll find out the same thing.
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everything about it is better than Dullhouse
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"Sources tell TVGuide.com's Matt Mitovich that Joss Whedon's Dollhouse is "looking really good" for a Season 2 renewal."
The buzz is getting louder...*squeak* -
I think you're right about costs. Dollhouse _should_ be a very cheap show to film.
If they bring it back, they need to redo the opening credits. I think that is actually one of the single biggest factors contributing to low ratings. Keep the teasing semi-nudity, sure, but make it a little less Lifetime-Movie-For-Women-like. -
That Matt Mitovich is following everyone else's twitter. ;)
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is all to soft core pornish for me
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Everyone is just re-tweeting their asses off! Dollhouse has become a trending topic again, even if it is just the same info being repeated.
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I can't wait to see this trainwreck hit season two. Well, I can wait to see, I won't watch that boring POS, but with how it is already tapering off into CW territory, it's going to be hilarious seeing what it posts in season two.
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http://tinyurl.com/pwswwr
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Is it any good?
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Just saying.
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Fox knows whether they will renew the show or not...they new weeks ago!!! Seems like a nice publicity stunt to up fan interest? I'm all for it if that is the case.
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It's not about the ratings - or at least, not only about the ratings. If it was, the show would be dead, dead, dead. This is about Joss being able to produce a TV show on a budget of shoelaces and bubblegum and make it sell. That is very appealing in these economic times.
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Fox knows whether they will renew the show or not...they knew weeks ago!!! Seems like a nice publicity stunt to up fan interest? I'm all for it if that is the case.
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Jesus. That's not a good way to make a series. Yes, most importantly, you need to have talent behind it - but if you go cheap, it ends up looking/feeling like a cheap show.
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Aarrgghh
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They're not basing the decision on the ratings, but rather on Joss's Season 2 pitch.
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May 15, 2009 4:09:57 PM CDT
The whole Alphabet thing is getting OLD (WTF, YIKES, etc)
by shiftyeyeddog2
seriously, Whisky Tango Foxtrot was funny ONCE, and lame every time since. and adding this to this post as well is just as lame.
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You know Fox needs to make up to Joss by giving him Season 2 of Firefly which if they hadn't messed it up in the first place could have been as successful as Battlestar...
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Angel season 5 was made with half the budget of the previous seasons and I thought it worked great. Spent a lot of time at the WRH office though :)
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would take some of the sting out of losing TSCC. Ummmm, Summer in the unisex showers... Besides, I think that TSCC ended the season at such a level of awesomeness that they couldn't have lived up it. How's that for bitter grapes?
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Sometimes lower budgets mean more work is put into scripts and characterization. Sometimes it just means cheesy special effects. In Whedon's case, I think you get more of the former, although some effects from BtVS still make me shudder.
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To something worthy of his time instead of this piece of crap. Not watching it anymore if it comes back. Gave it 12 episodes, it sucked 85% of the time.
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They didn't even ask Friedman in to pitch for a third season. Disappointing that. I think they knew long ago that it wasn't coming back. Dollhouse on the otherhand, wrapped principle shooting in January and they still kept the sets around. Both Peters and Murdoch like Whedon too.
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Check out this link http://tvcocktail.ivillage.com/entertainment/archives/2009/05/whats-the-future-of-fall-tv.html?nlcid=et|05-15-2009|
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Amber Benson was in the Buffyverse too, now she's in a movie about Ron Jeremys Dick. I'm just sayin'...
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Fuck! The only problem with that show is Sarah Connor. Drop her and it'd be great!
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The ratings were abysmal.
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otherwise, a fine piece of Friday night schlock. Glad to hear there will probably be more.
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not that I think that terminator and dollhouse are exchangable ("OMG, they should cancel this and bring back TSCC!!1"), like one has to live and the other die, but why no news at all? I kinda liked both shows, and I'm still looking forward to watching the unaired pilot of dollhouse.
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So thats why the rating was shitt.
episode 11 and 12 were great fun, that ginger pirate from dodge ball was wicked as alpha.
I do feel for tscc though, that show even though it had shit ratings it did have some good qualities. -
It's simple: Dollhouse got better the longer it was on, TSCC (with the exception of the last ep) got worse.
Dollhouse's main problem is that it's straitjacketed by that high concept. All the characters are either slimy or blank slates. Ballard was our guy to root for, but now he's part of the 'house. -
May 15, 2009 5:15:23 PM CDT
MM: what part of 'ongoing negotiations' do you not understand?
by oisin5199
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Fux could start to reverse their (well earned) reputation as being Sci-Fi unfriendly by renewing Dollhouse.
It's not a full-on support, where they would order new seasons of T:SCC and finance a new tv-movie of Firefly/Serenity, but it's a start.
A Start.... -
Jenny Calendar was introduced in season one of Buffy, not two. In that terrible literal interpretation of a computer virus episode with the even more reprehensible title "Me Virus, You Jane" (or something to that extent..."), now "Passion" in season two, featuring Calendar. THERE'S an episode.
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LA Times article:
:The network won't officially say so until Monday, but several sources close to the show say that the deal is being worked out now."
http://tinyurl.com/q9cjkq -
Find a new place for your Supernatural TB when Season 2 rolls around. Let me guess, will Season 5 involve Sam and Dean actually 69ing to save the world from opening the gate to hell? That's the only way I might watch it.
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Ok, I know its never been a Talkback regular, but since tonight is the series finale of Prison Break, can we get a talkback to mark the occasion. Would like to reflect on the whole show with my fellow AICN'ers.
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That's all I get off that show when I see the last two mins before Dollhouse.
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"It's called Prison Break, I know, let's have them break out after one season! Oh snap, who could've anticipated that our show entitled 'PRISON BREAK' would lose direction when the characters BREAK OUT OF PRISON? Now it's like 'LAND BREAK!' I know, let's put them back in prison AGAIN, once again they will have to BREAK OUT! It's gold, Jerry, gold!"
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Prison Break was only meant to be a 13 episode mini-series, that would have ended them breaking out, and that'd be it. Ratings were huge, so the middle of the season was tooled around and 13 episodes became 22, a mini-series last four seasons long, and yeah, it lost direction.
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Wasn't paying attention.
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Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Seriously, it's got better the more arch-y it got. Second season it's going to hit that full stride, but only like 1000 people know what's going on and anybody else that tunes in will be expecting cum receptical of the week like early last season. I think Buffy's second season gained so much momentum because the first season was totally episodic and the second season was the arch builder.
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Prison Break was actually conceived as a 2yr 44 episiode story - but went wildy off the rails once Fox decided to renew itfor season 3.
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suck on it
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I'll wait 'till Monday to start any actual celebration...but if the last few ep's are any indication, I'm am SO for Dollhouse keepin' on keepin' on.
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Make the season premiere from the point of view of a new Doll, coming in to replace November. That could explain everything in one hour.
I humbly suggest Summer Glau. -
Send him to Japan after his stepsister. Ben can pine for him (to Nina's annoyance) and he can guest star occasionally. But Labine has another show now so it's time for him to go.
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I hope it gets another chance. If you look at Angel, which has some of Joss' best stuff in it, very few good episodes were made in the 1st season. Anyone remember the ep "I fall to pieces"? With the guy who could detach his body parts? Sheeet. Its one of the worst things Whedon has ever been associated with.
Considering they've only been 12 episodes so far of Dollhouse, it does show promise. The last few episodes (excluding the very end of the finale) were great.
Toonol is right through, they should really change the title sequence. Maybe, you know, feature some of the other actors perhaps? -
Why is it that TV shows' opening credits for the past 10+ years don't show the actors' names over their pictures like they used to?
There are shows airing these days where I have know idea who is playing whom. -
I'll watch it out of respect for the greatness of the first two seasons. Also Terminator left off with a hell of a cliffhanger but the show had a lot of boring episodes people seem to forget in retrospect. Still the great moments here and there make me hope it comes back. Dollhouse has those same shining bits of brilliance but at the end of the season Echo was just echo once again, back to the same old boring crap. Well it's Whedon so who knows, he may have something up his sleeve.
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I bet the guy that plays Victor is wondering the same thing.
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...entertaining!
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..."Dollhouse" will not be renewed. As reported by ME in an earlier talkback, this is the lowest rated show on FOX, and one of the lowest rated television shows on all of English language prime time television. There are plenty of shows with "promise" and "potential" that get canceled all of the time. FOX isn't going to make any special consideration with this show jsut because of Whedon. Fewer and fewr people watched this show every week. That has nothing to do with the timeslot...and has everything to do with people just not likeing or wanting to follow the show. You really think that a summer hiatus will suddenly revive viewer interest in this show? Come on. The show is dead, and thank god these "dollhouse" talkbacks will be gone forever come monday when FOX confirms it.
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I have no idea who plays him. The only one I know is Dushku, because her (somewhat humorous) name is hyped so much.
If I were the Screen Actors Guild, I would demand that TV shows go back to their old style of credits. (Either names over over pics, or "SO-AND-SO as SO-AND-SO" -
Well, you better call all these Fox execs and industry types who seem to think it's being renewed! They'll be as embaressed as shit!
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This show is bad, real bad.You need someone Megan Fox to make this show watchable. In fact why there is no Wonder Woman tv show staring Megan Fox and directed by Weedon is beyond me. That would at least be the logical show for him to do after already doing a mega-hit female superhero tv show like Buffy.
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Still don't have a FUCKING CLUE who plays him though.
His name is Enver Gjokaj, thanks IMdb. -
I kind of lol'd
To Mr_X_v2: Supernatural kicked my ass with its finale. Best show on Television. -
Yes, there's alot of extras and expansive locations, but it doesn't look epic. It's a character drama, and it works well that way, but I've never watched an episode and been like "Damn, they poured some cash into this!" 24 and Lost look like epic, expensive shows. Dollhouse doesn't. Cutting the budget would probably have minimal impact. So Echo doesn't go mountainering anymore, big deal. I like the show a lot, personally I'd rather see Terminator come back (only because it has killer robots from the future) but I'll take Dollhouse. But I only watch it in multi-episode chunks. Aside from Lost and 24, I don't watch stuff week to week anymore.
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...a network has misled the media about their schedule, to keep their rivals in the dark until the last minute. Best case scenario---it's another midseason replacement, though that would make absolutely no sense either since the show has already failed as that. I will offically eat crow and suffer the wrath of all of the Whedon-ites on this board of I turn out to be wrong. (As a side note, I actually enjoyed th 5-11 episodes very much, but loathed the series fianle. It was shit.)
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Now that was an awesome show with great potential if either Fox or the Syfy channel had given it six seasons which it truely deserved.
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And vice-versa on the eating crow if it isn't.
Briar Rose flipped my shit, and I honestly loved the finale. I thought it tied a lot of threads together and made it so it could go out on that ep or continue on to bigger and better things. Still need to see that extra ep though... -
I hate to be one of those guys but, but what? RogueScribner posted that Jenny Calendar was in Season 1 of Buffy!!!
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I really looked forward to it. But Alpha was too much of a tweaker to be scary, and Dushku too easily kicked his ass. He hardly even seemed a threat and the climax on the catwalk was cheesy. If that was a preview of what their reduced budget would look like, then they really shoudln't even bother.
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I'm not averse to another season of Dollhouse at all, in fact I'd be happy to have another season. But Terminator deserves to be brought back much more than Dollhouse.
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Great job as usual FOX.
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but is it worth it? it sounds like its just 'evil terminator of the week' or something with a douchey john connor... and i liked dollhouse, some of echo's "missions" were fast-forward-to-the-action-scenes kinda boring, but the general concept is cool and the last few eps dealing with the actual dollhouse were great.
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Hey Einstein, the STUPORNATURAL TB is listed in the Coaxial column, right under where you found this TB!!! Kwitcherbitchen!!!
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Abbreviations are out of hand. I saw a million headlines for SAVE TSCC and I honestly had no idea what the fuck anybody was talking about. Get your point made clearer.
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DOLLHOUSE LIVES
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Just getting the template in place ;-)
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Who said 2 weeks ago that Chuck was already renewed and it will be "Announced Monday"?
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I have a MM gag all set up.
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and T:SCC, and I am set.gotta keep those Fox Suits from meddling in the scipts, too.
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I know but it's the finale, cut me some slack. T-Bag made this episode so far with that one scene. Good stuff. Anyone watching this? It's not great, but here's hoping for closure.
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I watched and somewhat enjoyed Terminator but it slept through most of last season, had much worse ratings than Dollhouse (and Dollhouse had it as a lead in) and after 3 series the ratings could only continue to slide unless they could find some way to hone in on the Salvation hype which would be difficult as they use different timelines. Dollhouse deserves another season and a decent slot to find an audience, I didn't discover Buffy until season 3 (having seen the movie so skipped the show) and it is my favourite series ever so hopefully more people can discover Dollhouse which has potential to be a great series. I said in another post about Glau being a doll - this would be ideal for next season.
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That's how DH is best. I'd kill to see more of the other Actives on missions.
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Maybe in season two their will actually be an episode that is good ALL the way through. All of season ones shows all crashed and burned after the 30 minute mark.
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TTV. But that's not saying much. Why I kept coming back I don't know? Also Glau as a Doll would be the smartest thing this show could do if they aren't going to work on making the stories better.
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It's called "Lost". Pretty interesting so far, they just heard a message in French from 16 years ago. And that Hurley character is pretty funny.
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Yeah, he's funny, but I prefer Sam a lot more. And Andi. Sam can move into a place with Tony. It'll be great.
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I know I know... Whedon's stuff doesn't get good until you've watched it for a season and a half... Then it's AWESOME, right?
Seriously, FOX... Cancel Dollhouse and give us back Terminator TSCC. It's stupid to beat the dead horse known as Whedon's writing, and it's even more stupid to miss the fanbase coming off of the Terminator Salvation movie.
But then, you're FOX... You live for dumb decisions. -
I am laughing my Whedon-loving ass off right now. Suck it, Whedon-haters. Suck it like the big schlongs you love in your mouths.
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Fuck it.
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Now that I know the show's not already over, I'll invest a little in it. I'll buy the dvds to show my support, and once I'm caught up, I'll DVR the new episodes next season. Thank you, Fox, for not doing something stupid. Refreshing change of pace, isn't it?
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That's two series in a row (Tru Calling being the other) where she gets an out of nowhere renewal for a mediocre show. And I type mediocre painfully cause I'm a fan of BSG alum Penikett.
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...time to start munching!!!!!Heard it from you first huh!!! Where does the line start?
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Have no love for it, but it's a missed opportunity considering the film is being released.
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Is it because the people who enjoy his stuff seem to just LOVE it, so it needs to be trashed to no end? Whedon writes GOOD entertainment. Buffy, Angel, Firefly = all great, in my opinion. And it's not all just silly-twists of dialogue that make it enjoyable, as some claim, but that the shows are actually very engrossing, intruiging, captavating entertainment.
The characters actually grow and evolve (gasp!) as characters. The narratives, both over seasonal arcs and in individual episodes, are exciting, page-turner-quality writing. It's not all just strangling-you-with-the-clever gimmickry, as I've heard it accused of being. Whedon's shows are every bit as enveloping as Lost, and MUCH better written than Smallville or Heroes has EVER been.
So, really, isn't it just because those of us who like Whedon's work LOVE it? Is it because it's not your type of humor? What's the deal?
Don't get me wrong, Anti-Whedoners, I'm not hating on you, I'm just asking why, when there's so much thoughtless, meaningless crap on TV (though not as much of it as when Whedon started, I'll admit,) why hate on shows that are actually well-written, entertaining, quality programs? -
No matter what you've "heard". Not sure why they are waiting so long. But I've seen multiple credible sources saying no decision "yet". And, yeah, Dushku is not near as hot as she used to be. Not sure if it's the years or what... but she lost what she had unlike Alba and others.
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For a cynical man, my heart breaks so easy. I must protect it whence I can.
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I mean, sure, I enjoyed the show. But it's just like me and three other guys watching. Why bother?
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Khhhhhtt!
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...and L|GHTST0RMER, it ain't Whedon or his work some of us take umbrage with, it's his legion of worshipping disciples who've built up this cult of personality around him that Mussolini would envy. It makes Goddenberry's look positively like the Dwight Schrute Army of Champions in comparison. That said, I'm certainly looking forward to where this show goes in a second season...
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I just rewatched Omega for the first time and now I reaaaaaally can't stand not being able to see Epitaph One yet even though it's finished and sitting in a room as we speak. A world that has been infected by the Dollhouse technology could be the most frightening dystopic future yet conceived.
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especially after those embarrassing episodes
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Who wins the catfight over the pearls and the purses?
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Angel's fifth season had it's budge slashed. It was also the show's best season. Bring on DH Season Two!
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Wait till Monday...Rule of thumb...when your show is dumped on a friday night...when your show is pulled in the middle of sweeps...when your show has unaired episodes sitting in the can.....maybe, maybe just maybe...your show will be canceled. No I'm not a Whedon hater, I was actually okay with the show. But the TV business is a "business", and from a business standpoint the show was an unabashed failure.
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See above "suck my Whedon loving cock" post.
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You say anything slightly sideways it's a really petulant baby-ish WEDOMSZ ISZZ AWESOMEZ YOU ARE SO FUCKIN STOOPID!!! It's a shame, I like Astonishing X-Men, Firefly, and Dollhouse but looking at his fans posts makes me want to take a shower.
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Wait 'til the upfronts, when all the DOLLHOUSE fans are gobsmacked by the FACT that DOLLHOUSE won't be returning to TV - or, if it DOES come back, it will be hatcheted in a single or two episodes and replaced by a show with a title like WORLD'S MOST DEADLIEST DRUNK DUDES. Guaran-damn-teed. The era of sci-fi on tv is OVER!
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You understand that "very engrossing, intruiging, captivating, and entertaining" are subjective, right? Some people love The Golden Girls. Others think WWE is da shit. Still others worship at the altar of Whedon.Personally, I liked Buffy, loved Angel, and loved Serenity. I saw the Buffy movie in theaters the day it came out. I collect both "continuing seasons" of Buffy and Angel in comics and have most(if not all) of the tie-in comics from all Whedon series.Does that establish my bona fides?That all having been said, I find
"Dollhouse" about as interesting as a root canal.Although I continue to enjoy the Joss, upon repeated viewings of Buffy, in particular, I find the cute-speak fucking annoying as shit and understand why that (and some of the maudlin nature of some of the show and the characters) could be offputting.Does this help you understand? Just 'cause *YOU* find Whedon's stuff "very engrossing, intruiging, captivating, and entertaining," doesn't mean that everybody does.Shit, dude, Uwe Boll still makes movies 'cause somebody still watches them. That ought to be 'nuff said.' -
May 15, 2009 9:00:22 PM CDT
Myself, I have no problem with Whedon, but with Whedon worshippe
by prof. pop-cult
It came to a high (or low?) point with Firefly. That's when the Whedonites started becoming scary. I watched and carefully followed both Buffy and Angel, but creatively I think things started to get a bit too quirky and uneven with Whedon's stuff starting with Firefly.I really wonder if there are in fact two camps of Whedon fans: The "browncoats" who love Firefly first and foremost, adore Dr. Horrible (which I found pretentious and boring, actually), and are sticking with Dollhouse no matter what. And people like myself who admire and respect Whedon as a working screenwriter in various forms of media (movies, TV, comic books); we tend to like Whedon for Buffy first and are kind of so-so about everything associated with him after Angel. And we're also the less vocal Whedon supporters.
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And the cutespeak gets old. That's why Dollhouse is a breath of fresh air for me - it divests the Whedonites of their comfort zone.
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Please, tell us some more about subjectivity. We're unfamiliar with the concept.
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Please, tell us some more about subjectivity. We're unfamiliar with the concept.
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there is real promise buried under the more-than-comfy first season douchery of dollhouse. Let's see if it grows up a bit...
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was awesome. Better than Buffy by a length or two. Doesn't mean dollhouse is flawless or even tolerable, though.
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Sounds silly to me.... Dollhouse was on a definite upward trajectory....
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In other words, there's fans like you, who are intelligent with good taste and emotional balance, and fans who are different than you, who are scary and pretentious?
Hey, who can argue with that? -
That song made the season for me.... We need more T:SCC.
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...in a subjective fashion.
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May 15, 2009 9:20:41 PM CDT
i was going to post a reasoned responce to Lightstormer but...
by mr. smith
Tallboy pretty much summed it up.
and for t he record, I too like AXM and Firefly (even if I thought Serenity blew chunks all over a cool legacy) -
What is Echo thinking about when she smiles while putting on those pantyhose in the intro?
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Gettin' some.
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May 15, 2009 9:23:19 PM CDT
Good news!!! Joss you better go balls deep with the action!
by hollywoodhellraiser
You gotta come out swinging!
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She's thinking "I so love mister [INSERT NAME HERE]. He's absolutely wonderful. I love his cute little [INSERT BODY PART HERE], and he even shares my interest in [INSERT OUTLANDISH FETISH HERE]. I'll love him for the rest of life."
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very nicely with the Beck song they used in the last episode. You can play the woman's vocals over the Beck chord progression. Makes me wonder if we might be able to put Angel audio-dialogue over the Dollhouse visuals and make an actually good show.
Anyway, hope they don't stuff up season 2. I think the key is to remember the show is called Dollhouse, and not The Dushku Show. -
who could stand such a show? the concept is bland
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Re-Canceled if it hasn't been once canceled? You can't re-do something that hasn't been done once already.
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in this post-modern day I'm sure some have tried...
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I go out for dinner and *this* is what happens. Holy fuck, I can't believe it!!!
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hopefully she'll keep those pantyhose on while doing the dirty!
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Yes, it didn't get into the hands of blue and Shepard Book, I get it. Killing off Wash and Book were just throaway wastes, I get it (although since this is probably the one and only Firefly-verse movie, I guess it works emotionally as an ending). But, if you look at the series as a whole, it's really about Mal losing his faith, and why River is so screwed up. This movie wraps up those two ends nicely in a bow. It feels complete. Good, almost entirely complete ending, which is something that most shows get. Also the Operative was badass. That guy's a good actor. I can't spell his name (Ch-something Ef-something-tor) but he was awesome in Redbelt, too.
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One were to Use Echo's body as a projector screen..... while playing Buffy..... As soon as Faith appears... BAM!
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The show has low ratings - ratings for shows are down overall - and that hurts revenue. Toss in the tight economy, and a lack of new shows to put in DH's place, the best option is to try to bring DH back at a lower budget. It has a small but devoted audience, and likely would do better than any new series they stuck there, plus with JW's pedigree there is every reason to believe it will get better with age.
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May 15, 2009 9:50:53 PM CDT
It just seems that they are setting it up for failure
by darfurontherocks2
Did Dollhouse appear to be expensive? I am not sure, where the saving are to be had?
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up the ass and hard.
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"Good on you, Joss, Fox, dolls, houses."
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"TSCC is, from all I've heard, not coming back.
Remember Dollhouse is from Fox sister studio 20th and TSCC is WarnerBros., which changes the cost-benefit equation.
Still ... this year though ... man ... it's like George Romero movie out there. You can't trust that any show is dead until you've seen its severed head."
I think there is still a bit of life. Twitching?
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Chiwaliti Effitor. That's the best I got. I think the last name is close.
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That was his name, and he was gods damned good in Serenity.
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I want to know if Terminator TSCC is renewed.
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Be honest now.
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Makes perfect sense Fox, and maybe I'll even consider watching Fringe if you do!
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draw a bubble bath, light a candle, put a rose on the counter, relax yourself into the warm jets and soothing aromatics, put the dollhouse opening credits music on the stereo and beat the hell out of their own penis?
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...Renewing it for second season than inexplicably not airing it at all. No no, don't do that Fox. DON'T!
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is because THIS SHOW SUCKS!!! It's like Aaron Spelling at his worst! The only reason why it got renewed is because of Whedon! Remember folks this is the same network that brought you Herman's Head & When Animals Strike! This is also the network that cancelled Alien Nation after only one season!
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Joss Whedon's track record suggests that his shows really find their footing in their 2nd seasons (sad we never got to see that with Firefly), so Dollhouse, which is already pretty decent, could be headed toward greatness territory. But I agree that if that's gonna happen, they need to pull the focus away from Echo. Because Echo/Caroline/Eliza Dushku is BY FAR the weakest element of the show. Good thing the show's not actually called "Echo" so they're free to make the necessary adjustments. As long as Producer Dushku lets them, that is.
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This is hinted at towards the end of the season finale since Ballard starts working for the Dollhouse. I think there is plenty of tension to exploit between his need to undermine the organization while still working under it.
If you're interested in a full critique of Dushku then I would direct you to Salon.com's Heather Havrilinsky who expertly takes her to task for being to similar from week to week while praising the rest of the show. There is a reason why the standalone episode where she played a dead woman was my favorite standalone, it's because Dushku actually played someone other than herself. -
than Dollhouse? Seriously? I enjoyed TSCC, and it was a show that slowly started to understand itself, but it was also very hit or miss. Which is similar to Dollhouse, but when Dollhouse was on, it was heads and shoulders above TSCC. The moment we discover who Alpha was is far and away better than any single moment in TSCC. Maybe Sarah Connor would have improved in its third season but I guess we'll never know.
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Seriously. I thought for sure this was dead. Let's hope it builds on the better elements and turns in a strong sophomore season.
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It wasn't a big deal. I thought EVERYONE knew it, going in to the story, since it hit the web back in Jan or Feb of this year when Alan was at the wrap party.
However, the moment in Terminator when BAG was shot in the head? Awesome. Did NOT see it coming. -
I enjoyed the hostage negotiator, the dead woman, and Patton Oswalt's wife, as well as the blind girl and the spyhunter. But I think the most fascinating character she plays is the one everyone complains about - blank slate Echo, developing a burgeoning new type of consciousness and personality. People complain that we can't "connect" to the Actives or root for them, but I thought their growing moments of self-actualization are some of the most fascinating in the series, especially when Echo approaches Topher in "Spy In The House Of Love" to request to be imprinted so she can help. I also think the show needs much more of Sierra and Victor, and other Actives. "Omega" felt jampacked when it should have been a 2-parter, and I would've killed to see Sierra and November's bounty hunter expedition to capture Alpha.
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I'll admit that Reese's death was well handled in TSCC and that I enjoyed the show in general. I guess I just preferred Dollhouse. I watch very few television series these days, so I wish it was renewed, but if I had to make a Sophie's choice, then I would easily go with Dollhouse.
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I can't believe I'm actually kind of bummed to hear a Joss Whedon show is being renewed - but Dollhouse is a huge mess, and Terminator: TSCC is awesome.
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1) Firefly
2) Buffy the Vampire Slayer
3) Dollhouse
4) Angel
In my opinion, Whedon didn't know what to do with Angel at first, much like Dollhouse. However, he figured the show out pretty quickly and I think that is what has happened with Dollhouse. -
Firefly
Dollhouse
Angel
BTVS
And I thought Angel S1 was ROUGH. -
when the vampire turns out to be the scared girl was pretty much the thesis for the entire show. The production values weren't great and the writing had yet to reach full steam, but I think it was an original show out of the gate.
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Which is IIRC the only really good episode that year, but it's very good. My memories of BTVS Season 1 are hazy.
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A low rated cult show getting a mini second season?
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which gave it an edge, so I can see where you're coming from reflecto.
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Can TSCC and bring back Dollhouse, just because its cheaper??? Next winter only 2 reasons to switch on the tube: Lost and 24...........
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Honestly, I stopped watching this show as soon as the finale of Terminator aired. TSCC as a lead in was the only reason I was watching Dollhouse, and the fact that Dollhouse's ratings plummeted as soon as Terminator ran out of episodes should be an indicator of which show sci-fi fans were REALLY tuning in for. I appreciate Whedon and all, but if you were to ask me which show was my favorite since firefly, I'd say Terminator in a heartbeat. Dollhouse-- not so much.
GIVE ME THAT FREAKING THIRD SEASON, FOX, or I will stop watching your network altogether! It's not like there was anything else on I was tuning into. -
Admit it. You may love that show, but it wasn't very good. Did it deserve to be canceled? Probably not. It was still better than most of the shit on the networks, but the writing was just redundant and cliched, while the acting was sub-par. I liked TSCC, but I'm not dumb enough to start getting indignant and shouting about how unfair it is that the show was canceled. It was a decent, fun show, but just never broke out of its middling quality to make it big.
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Don't need to buy another for Season 2 (maybe Fox just don't them, "Don't blow it up").
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May 16, 2009 1:11:15 AM CDT
Not sad if TSCC is gone; but slightly optimistic for Dollhouse!
by tomonicker
Truly, I stuck around for The Sarah Connor Chronicles a bit, and I think, it had great potential. Hell, I'd rather have it that what I expect to be Piece of Shite Termie movies... Screw PG-13 Terminator. The TV show at least had an excuse... Although, I used to LOVE Garbage, I wished that they had never brought Manson onboard... From the first transformation from urinal, I thought, come on!!! Lena Headly was HOT, and I think pretty damn decent, but I checked out about the time she got her ass involved with that Dude/Chick... blah. Dollhouse is flawed as hell, but I enjoy it a heck of a lot more than hamstrung Terminator. Joss, step it up next season, take no freaking prisoners. Make Amy's character the next psycho... I need my psychochick fix!!! ;-D Seriously, I do hear what people are saying, about there being no one to root for... Do a LOST Sawyer/Juliet thing, but don't chicken out the the end. That "Gunslinger" nod was pretty powerful til the Juliet epilogue. They should have saved THAT for next season. My humble opinion only... ;-)
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Should not be brought on... Too much mulah, me thinks. $$$! Plus, Amy is already similar enough to her, in my opinion! :-)
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Joss FINALLY gets treated well by Fox, as do the fans. Numfar! Do the dance of joy! Woo-hoo!
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May 16, 2009 1:46:40 AM CDT
ToMonicker - Looks like Amy will not be able to be in Season 2
by slayme
At least not much - her pilot "Happy Town" was picked up by ABC. Maybe they could imprint new doll Summer instead since Amy won't be there.
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Now that's something that doesn't get said very often. I'm surprised they're keeping it on Friday, but it's still a leap of faith on their part, and I wish them every success.
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I don't want to see it renewed even if TSCC gets its 3rd Season.
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As much as I like Dushku this show was not so good. And I still hope to see a Faith show, but renewing Dollhouse doesn't help.
And Dushku should definitely have a guest appearance on Supernatural.
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It was no secret that the big spa that is the Dollhouse set cost a fortune and was by far one of the biggest expenses for the first season. I mean, literally, HUGE cost.Making S02 cheaper than S01 shouldn't be TOO difficult. Now we just need them to focus more on Topher and Ballard/Helo and a little less on Echo. ED can act, but her character isn't as interesting and cannot be developed as well as the surrounding 'supporting' cast.
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But even if it does, a niche show for a niche audience is difficult for a major network, so it's gonna have a gun to its head again in about a year.
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May 16, 2009 4:03:16 AM CDT
Make American Idol, Dollhouse's Lead-In, & Fox Will Have A Hit
by media messiah
It's either got to be Amercan Idol, The Simpsons, or Family Guy--but Dollhouse needs the right lead-in for cross promotional and ratings growth purpose, if only to be featured in such a time slot for one time...special promotional nights.
Note-The Advantages of Lead-in Programming: It is a inside industry secret that show's that have strong lead-ins (we'll call them parasite series for the loss of a better term) benefit when an anchor show with great, or good ratings, i.e., a lead-in show, plays before them...as, of course, a large amount of the lead-in show's audience will stay and watch the following program--that is the part that is well known, yes, but here is the part that isn't well known--take a seat and read. Many viewers who watch lead-in shows, tend to fall asleep, or get destracted after the lead-in has concluded its broadcast in its respective timeslot. Those viewers, Nielsen Families, often don't turn-off the tv, or change the channel, etc., after the show's they have watched end...and as a result, the following parasite series are recorded as gaining a segment of the proceeding show's audience, whether the following show deserves it, or not--the Neilsen equipment still registers the TVs of the persons belonging to their ratings polls as being locked onto the same station and network, and hence, the following series score higher ratings as a direct result of that accidental viewer overlap which I have just highlighted. With that being a known fact among industry insiders, Fox owes it to Dollhouse and Whedon, to place the show in areas of its schedule so that it can receive that cross audience overlap... whilst, gaining new converts to the show...and thus, ultimately, a higher profile in the marketplace, as well as an upswing in media attention. It is only smart programming, and common sense! -
May 16, 2009 4:10:34 AM CDT
I don't know why I'm always surprised at all the hateful posts
by slayme
I guess it's cause Joss Whedon kicks the ass of whatever shows the haters wish were as good as his. Joss at his worst is better than most at their best.
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Read it and weep haters! Dollhouse kicks major ass and now its coming back for more.
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oh shit, banned.
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May 16, 2009 5:46:21 AM CDT
I'm going to start a campaign to get it cancelled!
by christian_bale_trashed_my_lights
FOX will be so stunned by such a bizarre move that it will drive them all insane. I'll then take my place as head of FOX and get "Firefly" renewed whilst starting my own new tv series "Bale Christian: Cockpunching Bad Ass Detective".With me as Bale Christian.
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There's been nothing but criticism since day one from fans of other shows. Meanwhile, TV critics and the people actually watching Dollhouse have seen the show improve dramatically and get into some real interesting territory.
I'm as surprised as anyone that there's a renewal on the cards, but at least I watched the show enough to know it has bags of potential. Sidenote: Fox realise that there won't be a better vehicle for their signed star, Dushku, anytime soon - if they value her contract at all, it makes sense to keep the show alive. -
...than failing upwards.
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what that weird shared look between Echo and Sierra was about did we?
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...was great. Stop comparing it to Dollhouse, which had a very, very weak first season.
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Like who was sending messages to Ballard.
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that dollhouse was stunningly mediocre and will get a 2nd season, but firefly which was far superior and more original, did not.
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If I remember rightly, Angel S1 was just bad, bad, bad. The only good episodes were in the latter half with the Faith 2-parter and the ending ones that focused more on Wolfram and Hart. Pretty much all the Doyle eps were awful, especially "I fall to pieces" and the one where Doyle sacrificed himself by jumping onto a big ball of light(?). Pretty much the whole first half of that season is a total misfire.
Now Dollhouse is far from brilliant, (ep3 was shite-tacular) but the premise, ensemble and overall more serious tone elevate it above s1 of Angel. Now s2 of Angel is awesome though... -
May 16, 2009 9:18:59 AM CDT
I almost stopped watching Angel halfway through the first season
by rbatty024
Good thing it picked up in the second half. The only show of Whedon's that was great right away was Firefly. In fact, it is very rare for any show to hit its stride right out of the gate.
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This is not to say that Dollhouse is not shaping up.. I am just saying that Fringe seems like a more natural comparison to Dollhouse than TTSCC
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Get over yourselves, it's renewed.
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But I agree with you. That Fringe finale blew me away.
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Are you serious? It's all that gets thrown at them. If they couldn't take it, would they keep popping their heads up out of the trenches to even take a look around? No. I'm thinking the shoe fits the critics a little better. A common theme here seems more often to be CRITICS who cannot handle it when everyone doesn't agree with THEM. But that's just an observation from someone smarter than you, so take it for what it's worth.
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But the shock moments of people turning on other people for no visible reason are getting ridiculous (The guy hunting Echo in the woods episode had like four of those.) I'm gonna watch the first season, but Whedon's strength is coming up with simple iconic concepts. 1. Buffy, the vampire slayer-school is hell, 2. Angel, the vampire detective-the underworld is a literal Underworld. 3. Firefly - Western in space - the new frontier is really like the frontier 4. Dollhouse - secret agents getting their memory wiped and replaced and ... wut? But if they can truly make the concept work by the end of the season I'll be impressed.
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As others have commented, Joss Whedon shows tend to improve after their second seasons. And it's nice that Fox is having some faith in a show like Dollhouse and allowing it a chance to grow and improve. Hopefully, Joss will take advantage of this opportunity and the second season should be awesome.
My only fear is that this might go the way of "Tru Calling" and the network renews the show and then cuts it back so severely that the "renewal" becomes more of an insult than if they had just cancelled it in the first place. I remember how happy I was when that show got a second season and then the season premier got pushed back and the number of episodes got cut down and, finally, it got cancelled before even airing all of the produced episodes. Hopefully, the same thing won't happen here. Hopefully, Fox will promote and pair it up with a strong show like 24 or American Idol to allow it to build an audience they way they did with Fringe. -
I'm glad that Fox are giving it a renewal. The initial episodes were weak, but its gotten consistently better as its developed and certainly justifies further investment. The only troubling thing is that they will have less of a budget that before. I wouldn't of said the budget was that stellar as it was. Don't remotely understand the people bitching and whining because their favourite show probably aren't getting renewed, it's not like the shows are directly competing head to head for ratings here.
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Everything you just described happening to tru calling has already happened to dollhouse. It won't be renewed. Sooooory.
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"Any thread that contains both "Shpadoinkle" and "Yub Yub" is truly exciting. And anything that reunites me with my stunning cast and my crazy staff (or "room fulla Tophers", as I call them) is nothing short of a gift. Heady times, indeed. We're two weeks away from finishing "Cabin" and now it looks like no summer vacation after all. But oh, the terrible things my brain is brewing... Just wait. We'll make it worth it.
Thanks for hanging in.
joss | May 16, 08:49 CET"
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How's the weather in your world?
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with Dushku.
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Lol just fine....can't wait till monday...god I love being right. :)
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I know I'm gonna sound like a sniveling fanboy when I say this but despite the show's rocky start and it's inconsistency from start to finish I'm REALLY excited about its return. Maybe I'm reading into it but I feel like in the wake of Serenity/Firefly and Dr. Horrible, Whedon and his brand are actually making a tangible, measurable impact on the way network's do business. Which is encouraging. I mean, they'll always be looking for the bottom line, [read: bucks] but I love that they're allowing for the possibility that it isn't necessarily found so quickly or so easily.
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You & MM should go grab a cup of coffee together.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6qoQ7UvEBk
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Except that he's right - DOLLHOUSE is gone, guys. I honestly doubt it will be renewed, but if it IS renewed you can GUARANTEE that no more than an episode or two will actually air before Fox chops it down and replaces it with 'TIL DEATH repeats or the remaining balance of SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP while trying to figure out what to repalce it with - only to finally make the decision that THE WORLD'S MOSTEST DANGEREST DRUNK GUYS is a better fit for its Friday Night slot - cheap reality shows are the only future of broadcast televisino people. Cheap reality shows. They cost next to nothing, require no actual "writers" with any talent and have zero visiion and zero art, and within five years - if broadcast television even still exists - it will ALL be reality shows. All of it.
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... just reeked of the kind of pretentious worldbuilding you get from a trio of guys "writing" a "pilot" for their own sci-fi tv show that will never get made, or the roleplaying universe they're going to introduce to their friends in a week based on a root model of TRAVELER, meaning they throw around Funions and say "What if everyone speaks half-Chinese?" or "YEAH! IT'LL BE LIKE THE PAST AND THE FUTURE, SO PEOPLE WILL CALL spaceships 'boats.'" Well, guess what, Dingus? Nobody will ever - ever - ever call a spaceship a boat unless they're mentally challenged.
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You can make it a threesome for that coffee date.
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Well, I guess agree to disagree on that one. We'll hopefully have a definitive answer on Monday as to whether you are right or wrong on it 'definitely being gone' (despite, y'know...EVERYTHING that's been said by industry insiders and reporters and Joss himself that says otherwise). And even if it is, I guess you can still fall back on claiming it won't air or only air a handful of episodes. But I think you are wrong.
So, neither of us can be proven true...where do we go from here? -
I literally don't get, like, ANY of the complaints you list there.
"... just reeked of the kind of pretentious worldbuilding you get from a trio of guys "writing" a "pilot" for their own sci-fi tv show that will never get made, or the roleplaying universe they're going to introduce to their friends in a week"
'Writing' a 'pilot'? Are you implying it wasn't a pilot, or wasn't written with those quotation marks? A role-playing universe they're going to introduce to their friends...actually, thinking that way EVERY sci-fi/genre show could be attacked this way (BSG, Lost, Doctor Who, Farscape, Supernatural, hell, even Eureka). I mean, I don't even really get what you're complaints are...that they did worldbuilding and created an original environment? (And granted, 'original' is very subjective here as he admittedly borrowed heavily from Cowboy Bebop)
Everyone speaks 'half-Chinese' as you put it, because that's one of the main conceits of the 'worldbuilding' you were complaing about. It's the idea that the Chinese people are, as far as ratio goes, the most populous people on Earth. Give 'em another hundered years and the option of colonizing other planets, and they'd explode like crazy (not, y'know...LITERALLY). It just makes sense.
"LIKE THE PAST AND THE FUTURE". Yeah. Events and experiences are cyclical; fashion's a good example of this. Or why would anyone ever wear bellbottoms again? To put it another way, we should learn from the past or we're doomed to repeat it. In this case, it not so much about the 'doom' as it is about the 'repeating'; experiences are cyclical.
But again, overall I don't really understand what your main complaint is. I only ask 'cause I loved me some Firefly, actually thought it was the best thing Joss had done. Amazingly complex and interesting characters combined with wonderful performances all around, and very original and interesting concept for a universe, and an over-all story arc (the rebels who lost the war trying to rise up again against the evil Powers that Be) that couldn't play out and given a chance to breathe the way it should (Serenity, anyone?).
Sooo...what didn't you like about it? That they were actually creating a world? How is that 'pretentious' or otherwise different than any other sci-fi/genre show out there? -
Who cares if they slash the budget in half? I hope TSCC gets renewed as well. If Whedon has to work with a Dr. Horrible like budget it'll just force the geniuses at Mutant Enemy to write all the more intuitively. I was surprised by this news. I really thought this show was DOA before it ever aired and I watched every episode twice. I think I'll probably buy the Blue Ray now. Can't wait to see Felicia's episode.
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DOLLHOUSE is a show unable to find a more substantive premise than "Something goes unexpectedly wrong with the Doll(s) that we're treating in ethically dubious ways." TERMINATOR: TSCC, at least has a straightforward premise of trying to prevent an apocalyptic future that suits a weekly series format far better. Cut TSCC's third season down to a tight 13 episodes if you want, but it deserves extended life far more than DOLLHOUSE.
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I knew it. I knew Terminator would be cancelled and Dollhouse renewed. I said it weeks ago. Fox finally does something right. Suck it, haters!!
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The show took a while to get going but finished great. I'll miss November since she wasn't a typical hot girl but was still hot in her own way. Plus once they revealed her as not just the nice neighbor but the kick ass active she was one of the best characters. Sierra though, wow she is the coolest. They give her the best profiles and she has the best snide remarks for everyone. Echo is cool but Sierra is cooler and more entertaining. She is Faith to Echo's Buffy. Dollhouse like Buffy takes a while to get going because Joss was building the mythos as well as doing single episodes. It took a while to get there but once it did the show got way better. I'm very interested to see where he goes now.
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May 16, 2009 1:25:38 PM CDT
That post by Joss makes me glee like a schoolgirl!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Thanks Buffywrestling! I'm even more excited for DH return now!
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Fuck all you Whedonite whores! Bale shall smitehth you down with his professionalism! Lord Bale will hear of your tresspassess, and fuck you too Herc you lying twat!
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"Man, I like balls a lot. One of my Whedonite staff, Buffywrestling, can gargle my balls like a disabled cambodian hooker, damn he's good. My room full of sukkas' (I call them that because they suck my balls too) totally agree that Buffywrestling should just always have my tadpole loaded man yogurt all up in his gizzle, fo shizzle (see I use cool wrods cayse I'm a dochey trendbag writer)."
Originally posted 5/12 -
Further proof of his dochebaggerY!!!!!!!11
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when this show is cancelled in mid season. All of the so-called lovers will turn on it, bitch about FOX not giving the show a chance, and suck JW's dick. All at the same time.
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MegaBaltar5000's a cranky pants!
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in that they are incredibly sterile, soulless shows with uninteresting casts (except for Walter of course) that are only staying afloat because the high-concept sci-fi is interesting.Let this be a lesson for Fox: your audience is not dumb, contrary to what you've believed all this time, they're actually quite smart, and if you make smart shows, they'll get ratings even if they are flawed.
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There is honour in Victory. There is honour in defeat. And sometimes there is honour in just staying alive...
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IF...and that's a big IF this show is renewed, it will be gone before the November sweeps. Dushku must suck great cock to get not only a production deal with FOX, but also a partnership with Whedon, a starring role and even the suggestion that Dollhouse would be rmoved with it's cellar dwelling ratings really makes me wonder, wtf? Who actually think this chick is actually qualified for any of that shit? And the show got better the more peripheral she became.
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even when the show's renewed, we hear 'it won't last.' waaaah. When are you just going to deal with the fact that people like Whedon's shows? Even with low ratings, DVD sales are always going to make the network money. You think his shows suck. Most people disagree with you, including, apparently, Fox. So live with it. We're not going anywhere. Bring on the season 2!
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You don't give Firefly a second season but you gave this a second season. Now I guess Firefly did cost a lot more but COME ON! Very happy shows like this are surviving though.
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Personally, I couldn't get into DOLLHOUSE at all. It was just too boring for me. But for those who DID like it -- hey, to each their own and glad your show gets another shot. In the end, Fox may have figured that some eventual DVD sales might return costs due to it becoming a cult show with consistent sales. Hell, maybe they told Whedon "You can have another shot so long as the girls slut it up each week and we can attract better ratings."On the other hand, I wouldn't get TOO excited even if they announce a 13 episode second season. Let's remember this is Fox, so there's still a chance it will come back next year and even in a re-tooled state STILL bomb in the ratings, at which point Fox will pull another DRIVE and cancel it with episode 4 and say "Shut it down right now. It's not even worth doing the 13." So, I guess we'll just have to see what actually happens next year if it actually does come back in an all-new incarnation.
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i really hope its true so i have a reason to watch dollhouse without worry of falling in love with it and ending up disappointed it'll be cancelled
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I really loved how TSCC ended and the potential for the future of the show, but I'd rather see a second season of a whedon show than a third of TSCC... we're getting three terminator movies. Buffy was not great at all in season one when you compare it to how good it became in season two and onward. I think Buffy showed a little potential, but showed no signs of being the truly epic show it became. In a perfect world we'd see TSCC, Dollhouse, Supernatural and at least one season of Smallville where clark is actually superman all continued... and a talkback for all four wouldn't hurt either ;)
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Is this really even a question? I ean, come on people, 25 years of mythology, versus 12 episodes of a halfway interesting concept, that, like the Dollhouse itself, is fatally flawed. First, the premise of the show and the organization: there just isn't a large enough clientele to keep a business like this going. How many people are out there, really that would be willing and/or able to pay for a customized best friend/bodyguard, hostage negotiator, child psychologist, pretend wife, dominatrix, fun-motorcycle-riding-birthday-date chick, etc., when it would be far less unpredictable, expensive, and pointlessly complicated to just hire people with those real abilities naturally? And, oh yeah, I need for someone to make a "doll" for me to deliver a baby? Come on---lame. Terminator is a much more worth show of saving, with a built in fanbase, that extends beyond a love for James Cameron, and it also deals with lofty issues such as fate and destiny, in addition to personality and free-will. The second problem with Dollhouse is this whole notion that Echo is somehow "special". What makes her special? Her hippie, PETA, animal-saving backstory? I don't think so. And this alleaged "specialness" is exactly what should be causing them to send her ass to the Attic, especially given what they have now gone through twice with Alpha. How many times can they ask the computer guy..."Did you wipe her clean? Are you sure? Did you get everything?" And then the next episode she's exhibiting free will again? How long could a business such as this survive which as many "glitches" their product has already demonstrated in just these few episodes we've seen? IT's just plain stupid how they mmarver at Echo's re-surfacing of Caroline's personality traits, as if this is some sort of amazing quirk, given the disater that turned out with Alpha. And don't get me started with the doctor randomly discovering she is a doll herself, and Topher stands there and has a conversation with her and just looks over at her later, instead of immediately alerting security and throwing her ass into that chair for a treatment. Dollhouse is more a show of high conept ideas that, when looked at long enough by anyone hungry for some shit that has an internal logic to it, wears out, and gets pretty old, pretty quick. Sure there is a place for nichey shows,with small, cult-like followings--it's called cable TV. Fuck, ore people watch The Closer on TNT than this show, and The Closer has a budget of nothing. Whatever loose ends that anyone believes this show has could be wrapped up in one action-packed dirct to video movie that they could release with the series' 13 episodes. Let this show die already. It was interesting here and there, but Terminator is a show with far better "legs" than this shit.
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I've just been renewed for another season.
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This is incredible news...now please pair it up with Fringe and give it a real shot. It's a great concept and really well put together. The cast has been incredible! It's just a shame the first episode was weak and maybe lost some people out of the gate, but by episode two it has already leapt light years ahead in terms of quality storytelling.
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...The way that kid moved.... :)
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It's not that they built a world (they didn't) and it's not that they "didn't" make a pilot (they did). What the problem is - which is common in geekgasmfantasycallingitselfscifiwhenit's notscientificatall - is that the worldbuilding comes FIRST, instead of the desire to tell a good story. Character/plot/etc. all go by the wayside in order to get the "weird interesting new world" thing, where they tweak little changes on the modern world and say "Wow, isn't that neat? People call spaceships boats here, and wear Hawaiian shirts but speak half-Chinese." Such crap! At the same time, you've got an episode where - literally, I kid you not - the first moment I saw FIREFLY featured a guy who was supposed to captain a ship - refusing to captain the ship (thereby dooming his wife) so he could be in medical bay to care... for ... his wife. The characterization there made NO SENSE WHATSOEVER - BECAUSE HIS WIFE WAS SURE TO DIE IF HE DID NOT FLY THE SPACESHIP - THEREBY MAKING HIS DECISION INCREDIBLY EASY ... not even worthy of consideration. It'd be like someone telling me they desperately need me to give blood so my boyfriend can live, and then me saying "Nothing doing - I've got to stay here and make sure my boyfriend lives!" Then they'd say to me "Um, we NEED YOU TO GIVE BLOOD SO YOUR BOYFRIEND LIVES!" and I reply "BUT I HAVE TO STAY HERE TO MAKE SURE MY BOYFRIEND LIVES!" It's like frikkin' AIRPLANE! "The cockpit? What is it?" Add to that the dialogue for this scene, which was something liek "Quee'Zahhh, (guy's name!) I'M THE CAPTAIN OF THIS HERE BOAT!" And, within a two-minute time period - that scene - I'd seen enough to know that the world building was failed (fake slang = FAIL every time - universally) and that they hadn't bothered to write a character who was worth a damn for anyone.
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Excuse me, the guy who was supposed to captain was actually SUPPOSED to PILOT it and was fighting with the Captain. Quee-zah!
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We'll cut the budget in half. And we'll put a dog in it. A psychic dog.
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Drive be shown?
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Fake slang, right? And BSG is considered one of the best science fiction shows of recent times, yes? Making an easily refuted argument = FAIL every time - universally.
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Yeah, people have been saying that for 10+ years and it hasn't happened. It will NEVER happen. Reality TV may always be popular, but it will never be the "only" thing on. Because even though it's cheap to produce, not everyone likes it. Scripted drama and sitcom will always be around. Your argument smacks of a hipster cynic or angry at the world youth with little grasp of the actual TV industry in either a historical or psycho-social context.
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Yeah, Herc locked the Supernatural post. So no, we CAN'T actually talkback. It's a ridiculous bullshit tease on his part. Supernatural fans, I encourage you to continue talking about it in other Coax posts.
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Thank you. The zone sucks, even though there are a few that defend it. I don't want to have to write 2 long paragraphs off the top of my head just because I know there will only be a few people in the next three hours who even read the post, and less who write it. But in a talkback, i don't need to think long and hard, because there is an active back adn forth which makes me come up with comments that i simply cannot on the zone off the top of my head. That was in NO WAY a concession on herc's part. It was a royal FUCK YOU because he actually WENT OUT OF HIS WAY to lock a talkback. Its childish, and makes the worst hijackers on coax threads (me included) look like saints. What a tool.
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I'm happy to read this. After "Firefly," and thinking where that show might've gone, this is great news!
Dushku is doing some of the best acting of her career, converting even a skeptic like me, too. I'm really enjoying this troupe of actors. Whedon chooses well once again.
Plus -- I want to learn more about the story. It's got far-reaching science fiction coolness wrapped in drama. The show budget's been cut, which sucks a little, but I think the result won't diminish. Can't wait.
I'll definitely tune in next season. -
I disagree with pretty much everything you've written. Just so you know.
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FRAK is just as dumb, and so was BATTLESTAR.
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Dollhouse started off terribly, no thanks to Fox execs forcing him to redo and change the first few episodes from serialized drama to stand-alone episodes. They're at fault. Episode 2&3 were atrocious to me. Episode 4 worked better. Episode 5, improvement. From episode 6 to 12, i was enjoying. I still think episode 12 shouldve been a 3 parter. Too much information was jampacked in.
People need to realize something about Eliza Dushku. She's just like Keanu Reaves, she acts with her body, not her voice or appearance. Her voice is way too distinct, and while gorgeous, her look is unchangable, very stagnant. So all she has to work with is her movements, and she PULLs it off. Yea, her acting wasnt superb in the fist episodes, but she got LOADS better by episode 5. And everyone knows she plays tough girl pretty damn well. Just ask Faith. I enjoyed episode 10, Haunted, which was her portraying an older woman. Very good job. -
For somebody who hates the living shit out of Firefly, you sure do have a strong memory for it. I'll be honest, I dunno what exactly you're talking about with the nit-picking of that exact episode ("Our Mrs. Reynolds", I think?), so I'll have to go back and re-watch it (actually, good excuse to re-watch Firefly, it's been a year or two since I've sat down with it). Again, personally, I feel like they did create an interesting new world, and then populated it with VERY interesting characters (your one, again admittedly nit-picky analysis of one episode to the side), who not only are well developed entities by grow as the series develops itself (granted, only a little more than a dozen episodes).
But the fact that they have distince points of reference for how this 'universe' is different fron the here & now does not automatically make it a 'bad show' with no emphasis on character or plot (that was the great thing about Firefly; the characters!).
I've heard you make the 'not real sci-fi' arguement before, and just for a point of reference...what is 'real' sci-fi? What do you actually like? And who do you post on these forums about shows you obsess over yet obviously hate? -
That is. :)
And 'FROM' for that matter.
Gah! And 'WHY do you post'. Geeze. Beer Bad. Whoops! Whedon reference. -
The original STAR TREK was a good show - some of the time. It was about ideas and concepts relating to humanity, about idealism of race and culture.BABYLON 5 was about people and built a world that was explained a bit at a time, without people having to say "Quee-Zah!" to identify itself as a different world and culture. It fell apart a few times, but its heart was in the right place.JOE 90 was a favorite, too.
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As far as hating FIREFLY, I'd heard a ton of stuff about it - and then saw that for two minutes and wanted to puke because of how far sci-fi has fallen.
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Oh! Well if you only like sci-fi with wooden puppets, like Joe 90 and Babylon 5, it's not hard to see why Firefly went over your head.
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so there is people here that liked the Terminator show? Oh you wacky Yanks (for "wacky Yanks" read "autistic mud-fuckers". Thank you).
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It went 7 seasons and has spawned 3 movies with a possible 4th one.
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and yet every week I want to see more. Almost all science fiction is largely absurd, much much more fiction than science. It was actually pretty funny when Topher and his alter ego listed the most famous science fiction absurdities. But that's the kind of self-aware humor than makes a Whedon production better than most.
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I'm a wacky, autistic mud-fucking TEXAN, and don't you ever forget the difference!
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And I have not once correctly guessed the number of gumballs in a jar or wallowed in any sort of mud-puddle, I'll have you know. Also loved Dollhouse. And Texas.
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But if it's not voiced by Bob "bobcat" Goldthwait, no vote.
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Dollhouse is entertaining TV that keeps me happy, more is better.
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Puppets/animation/live-actors ... I'm not limited by an understanding of the media. JOE 90 posited the iea of a new technology and had some lighthearted fun with the notion - it's pure science-fiction, with actual pretend science - postulating an idea (instant knowledge). It was fun. Whatever. I certainly think the actors in JOE 90 were far less wooden than on, say, ENTERPRISE or VOYAGER.
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I'm unclear on this...what exactly is it about Firefly's universe that is "pretentious worldbuilding"? What would differentiate "pretentious" worldbuilding from "superior" worldbuilding, in your opinion, within the SF genre? Please give details...this really is confusing me...
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...with absolutely no details to backup your opinion, so I'm doubting I'll get a response to my question about Firefly...perhaps you are yet another of the unfortunately increasing examples in American society of those who think "opinions" are "facts" just because we say they are...sigh...
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And it is a keeper. Lots of potential there. I'm still waiting for example to see multiple actives imprinted with the same personality (or Alpha starting to duplicate himself in his dime store chair). Most of the questions and situations that made the Altered Carbon series so compelling have perfect place here, with an added "soul" twist.
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Morgan did some very interesting things with Altered Carbon, and the question of immortality has already arisen in Dollhouse. I would think that the quest for immortality would be more compelling to the super rich than the quest for a good lay.
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I'm pretty sure immortality, and what people will do to be downloaded into a doll will come up later. The government is after the Dollhouse tech and there's this "mysterious goal" the company is working towards. But memory download doesn't work in Dollhouse the way it did in Altered Carbon. When the dead lady was downloaded into Echo, she was a lot more capable, than in life. Not to mention the whole finale. The whole point of Dollhouse is more similar to Dark City. You can interchange the memories, but you can't do it with the soul. Alfa will always be a killer, and Echo will always be a hero, no matter who's "riding" them.
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Whedon gave in to Fox, changed the show around as they wished in the first few eps, now he gets the second season. He's playing the game now. It was worth the terrible first episodes. (Still can't get over the "Hunting Echo with a bow" episode. That was like a cataclysmic evolutionary event for the audience. Only the strongest supporters were left, to come back next week.)
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...and you're not the only one, it's cruel, cruel Summer...leavin me here on my own...
I digress. Whedon really needs to draft her for the role of Foxtrot, though, Herc's 100% about that. Especially with Acker possibly moving to Happy Town (?? - poor man's Twin Peaks?), Dollhouse could use more on-screen alumni to gell with the writing room.
Also, the new Star Trek film is beyond awesome. -
Whedon to me is a good storyteller in various mediums. I never jumped into Angel or Buffy, but I thought the world of Firefly. Dollhouse is boring and doesn't deserve a second season.
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She's already played plenty of mentally unstable or socially awkward characters already. Cameron is easily my favorite of all of them, but if Terminator really is canceled (which we will find out today), then I think it should be her last, at least for a while. If she wants to be forever typecast as "that blank faced chick who's really good at being emotionless," then I can think of no better move than joining Dollhouse. Fortunately, the budget cuts for Dollhouse likely put her out of the show's price range, so even if TSCC gets canceled, I think she'll transition into movies quite nicely. She's quite the fan favorite to play Lara Croft in Warner Bros' Tomb Raider reboot, and given that Terminator is also produced by Warner Bros, she may already have her foot in the door.
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I liked the show and i cant wait to see the second season. If its anything like Whedon has done before the second season will be way better than the first.
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"It's a bet on creativity... It's a bet on Joss," Kevin Reilly on the renewal of "Dollhouse."
"Terminator" had completed its run, Reilly says. Adding this wasn't an either/or decision with "Dollhouse."
"If we'd cancelled Joss's show, I'd probably have 110 million e-mails this morning from Joss' fans." - Reilly.
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http://tinyurl.com/pzmofx
Fox Friday: Brothers & 'Til Death a lead-in for Dollhouse (???) -
I love Hercules the Strong and his completely fair behavior and policies. He is not at all a giant douchebag lording administrative powers on a website over people who disagree with those behaviors and policies.
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I've read today.
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