May 8, 2009, 1:31 a.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 1:33 a.m. CST
by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl
Fingers are still crossed that there could still be a season 2 that Fox could maybe try tossing on another night that isn't Friday.
May 8, 2009, 1:40 a.m. CST
And while watching Echo do the tango sounds really hot I'm not so sure about the foxtrot. Gonna watch it though.
May 8, 2009, 1:43 a.m. CST
Beats the Saturday death slot which seems to have killed "Kings." Sigh. Ian McShane for frak's sake!
May 8, 2009, 1:48 a.m. CST
For some reason ep 11 won't stream to my 360 from my pc - it only plays 2 minutes. Goddamn microsoft piece of shite. I've grown to love this show, so I bet it gets canned.
May 8, 2009, 2:21 a.m. CST
Join us In The Zone!!! <br><br> http://tinyurl.com/orjzrd <br><br> Now back to your regularly scheduled House of Dolls talkback.
May 8, 2009, 2:43 a.m. CST
"Just hung up w/Joss-man listen up:if u want/need/desire more WheDush~Dollhouse finale 2morrow night 9p FOX. Tell your f*!in friends. xo" <p> The implication is that Joss has been told that tonights viewership will be a deciding factor in whether the show is picked up or not. <p> So it's possible the show isn't quite dead after all. <p> That said, I find it hard to believe that the show can pull out of its ratings dive. So it probably is as good as dead.
May 8, 2009, 2:48 a.m. CST
LIVE DOLLHOUSE LIVE
May 8, 2009, 2:48 a.m. CST
The second doll who has their shocking past revealed?<p> Has to be Whiskey (aka the Doctor). <p> Right?
May 8, 2009, 3:02 a.m. CST
Hulu is your new best friend. All the episodes are on there for free.
May 8, 2009, 3:39 a.m. CST
The show really needs to go to another network. Aren't there shows getting canceled on other networks leaving room for Dollhouse to take their place. And if we don't get a season two then we need a movie. Seriously this show is awesome and deserves a second season or maybe some tv movies during show hiatuses.
May 8, 2009, 4:31 a.m. CST
Wolverine was a boring piece of shit.
May 8, 2009, 4:42 a.m. CST
Was frakking awesome last week. I wasn't sure who I wanted to win lol. Alan T. had me in stitches.
May 8, 2009, 4:53 a.m. CST
Does he have anything to do with the show, apart from directing the pilot? (And I even heard that they pull a Dollhouse on Prison Break and dump the REAL two final episodes on DVD.)
May 8, 2009, 4:53 a.m. CST
I caught up with the episodes and still I just didn't care about any of the characters. Apart from Amy Acker none of them were likable. Not even Alan Tudyk who did a 360. I cannot see how this show will get a second season.
May 8, 2009, 4:55 a.m. CST
Maybe it will put an end to the Joss Whedon worship. When will people realize how over-rated this guy is?
May 8, 2009, 4:55 a.m. CST
...following me on Twitter? I mentioned Joss Whedon only ONCE and even in a neutral way. I didn't say that I like him or something, but suddenly these Dollhouse bastards decide to follow me, without even asking what I think about him!
May 8, 2009, 6:15 a.m. CST
...is going to be Victor. Shame because the actor who plays him is awesome. But when you get your face all happy slashed I guess you have to pack up your desk. I'm really liking this show, damn you Fox. Again.
May 8, 2009, 6:53 a.m. CST
Alan Tudyk was great in the last episode. Loved his twist, which I didn't see coming at all. Dushku and Mellie were also excellent.<p> Can't wait to see the finale!
May 8, 2009, 7:18 a.m. CST
Expect the worst, pray for the best, and if the former occurs, let’s hope Whedon never does business with Fox again. Although it would be reasonable to say he should have learned that lesson already with ‘Firefly’.
May 8, 2009, 7:19 a.m. CST
"Dollhouse ends its run - possibly for good - with a tense outing that reveals a few crucial "doll" secrets while pointing the series in a new direction. Never light to begin with, Dollhouse has evolved into a much deeper, more complex fantasy, and that's not necessarily a plus. Certainly, the show has yet to make a convincing case that either the story or the stars can carry all the emotional and structural weight that has been piled on top of them. Still, in the end, it's better to have a flawed Joss Whedon show on the air than no Joss Whedon show at all. So if he's still convinced he can make this one work, here's hoping Fox gives him one last chance to try."
May 8, 2009, 7:25 a.m. CST
or emote without cocking her head like a Labrador puppy that had just heard a high-pitched sound.
May 8, 2009, 7:57 a.m. CST
You know damn well Krod gets a season two. Maybe even a go Reno 911 with a movie.
May 8, 2009, 8 a.m. CST
though that's not saying much. <p> Buffy's sole "emote" move was to stutter and then blink really quickly. This did for shock, pain, surprise, fear, astonishment, etc...
May 8, 2009, 8:26 a.m. CST
This show rocks.
May 8, 2009, 9:02 a.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 9:05 a.m. CST
...and they like it.
May 8, 2009, 9:15 a.m. CST
He's an executive producer for the show (one of about a half-dozen). Is Herc hinting it is Prison Break's fault Dollhouse's 13th episode won't be aired? Tell me, what's on Fox Friday May 22nd that keeps it from airing then?
May 8, 2009, 9:16 a.m. CST
Written and Directed by Joss Whedon episode, myself.
May 8, 2009, 9:20 a.m. CST
is responsible (in part) for the bad ratings. <p>
May 8, 2009, 9:23 a.m. CST
The reason being that FOX paid for 13 episodes (which included the unaired pilot, *Echo*), reducing the number of episodes they could air to 12. <p> However, because the studio makes DVD deals based on the original number of 13, Epitaph was created as a standalone episode set after episode 12. FOX currently has no plans to pay for or air this episode.
May 8, 2009, 9:27 a.m. CST
Dollhouse is getting better and better though....
May 8, 2009, 9:29 a.m. CST
Fan, I am sure, would be interested to watch it!
May 8, 2009, 9:29 a.m. CST
Fan, I am sure, would be interested to watch it!
May 8, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST
By the time Dollhouse got to it's second half of the episode run, I was starting to really get hooked and by last week's episode, I was saying YES! this is the show I've been wanting. This is one of the most fascinating shows on the air right now. It would be a terrible loss if it wasn't given a chance to grow further. Make it happen, Fox!
May 8, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST
In the intro, when Echo is putting on those pantyhose and she is smiling, what is she thinking about?!
May 8, 2009, 9:35 a.m. CST
No, wait a second, they are all about superficial fluff. My bad.
May 8, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST
You have 666 in your name and you say Supernatural is for pussies. That's like saying you like girls but instead you get fucked by guys.
May 8, 2009, 9:42 a.m. CST
I still stand by Dollhouse and I think this show has really proven that it isn't the crappy, directionless panned show that people have bashed it for. I also suspect the loss of ratings is NOT because of the quality of the show, and more to do with the constant internet bashing from people saying it's just going to get cancelled. Why would any audience care about the show if everytime they look up info on it, all they hear is it sucks and will be cancelled anyway? Meanwhile, I agree that Fox doomed the show from the start by interfering so much, putting it in the Friday death slot, AND by making the idiotic decision to air the show with next to no commercials. If they wanted the show to at least be profitable, despite the death slot, why reduce the advertising opportunities by making the show a guinea pig for advertising? I think Fox needs to renew Dollhouse, even if for just another 12/13 eps, put it on at a reasonable time, and air it with normal commercials. If they still can't find an audience, fine, cancel it. Oh, and let Joss make HIS show, instead of worrying so much about your developmental contract with Dushku and trying to push the stand alone eps so much so that she gets so much alone air time. I personaly believe the show ALWAYS has been better than people have given it credit for. The episodes that build on the main idea have been just as good as anythig else Whedon has done. I will be disappointed if Dollhouse doesn't get a second chance.
May 8, 2009, 9:46 a.m. CST
Funny how she calls Kevin Smith Smithers and Nathan Fillion Fills.
May 8, 2009, 9:51 a.m. CST
I'm trying to convince him to go to a later show but...It's Trek! I like Dollhouse but Trek!! I'm such a bad Whedonite :( *torntorntorn*
May 8, 2009, 9:51 a.m. CST
I think Joss needs to make a movie to HBO or something. HBO seems hurting for new series lately, and I bet JOss could make one hell of a premium cable show. Plus, I am a HUGE fan of shows with shorter seasons because it means less filler and less need to drag he storyline out for ever.
May 8, 2009, 10:42 a.m. CST
She posted something on her Twitter that makes me think renewal is dependent upon tonight's audience numbers. It was something to the effect of "Just got off the phone with Joss. If you wanna see another season of Dollhouse, watch Friday and tell your friends."
May 8, 2009, 10:43 a.m. CST
Who's going to admit watching a show called "Dollhouse"?<br><br> They needed a cool name like, oh say "Supernatural". Well they also needed good writing and acting like that found in Supernatural as well.
May 8, 2009, 11:27 a.m. CST
my BF decided that we would be moving stuff tonight instead without consulting with me (this after I told him I wanted to stay in and watch tv tonite) This is exactly why I choose to be single for so long.
May 8, 2009, 12:07 p.m. CST
Tell your friends...
May 8, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST
As much as I enjoy Supernatural, Dollhouse has introduced and played with more complex concepts and nuanced characters in 13 eps than the entire run of Supernatural. Sorry, you know it to be true. Supernatural most often has one level of emotion throughout. Angst. And selling your soul to the devil and any variation of hell, apocalypse, etc. is not really that original. Supernatural is entertaining for what it is, but sorry, it's not the most complex, deep, or intellectual show. Whereas Dollhouse is working on a Philip K. Dick level of complexity and mindfuckery. Bring on that second season!
May 8, 2009, 12:34 p.m. CST
it made up for the rest of the season. Alan Tudyk reminds us why he's the most unappreciated actor in tv with his startling jolt from a harmless dweeb into an intense, imposing figure.
May 8, 2009, 12:36 p.m. CST
... Needs at least two more seasons regardless of ratings. FOX is a bunch of bitchass bitches if they cancel this show.
May 8, 2009, 1:03 p.m. CST
That would be my guess. However, it will remain in the Death Slot. If this doesn't get picked up by FOX, what about SciFi or FX?
May 8, 2009, 1:25 p.m. CST
All of them must be following you on Twitter, DerLanghaarige - all 12 of them, that is.
May 8, 2009, 1:29 p.m. CST
It's not coming back.
May 8, 2009, 1:40 p.m. CST
"What is the Dollhouse?" is not going to be one the the great questions of the 21st century. James joyce is intellectual.... Supernatural is not.....But neither is Dollhouse. This is not to say that both shows are not fun. However, I think too much credit is given to many shows (see LOST) where fans and even creators try to pass off as High Art....
May 8, 2009, 2:01 p.m. CST
The "quality" of this season is more of the season 6 or 7 variety, not of a season 1.
May 8, 2009, 2:16 p.m. CST
I love BSG and I do think that they explored a lot of thought-provoking issues. However, one chapter of Foucault covers similar issues that BSG took 4 years to elaborate on, and even then not on the same level....
May 8, 2009, 3:02 p.m. CST
How can he still work as an active with those scars Alpha gave him? Saunders is proof they leave a mark, and she probably had help sooner than Victor had. This sucks because I liked Victor. I actually think Sierra is more expendable.
May 8, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST
I've been watching but if it got canned I wouldn't cry about it. Supernatural on the other hand...kidding I know this isn't the place for that. I dare not walk through that door...or I'll never be able to come back!!!
May 8, 2009, 3:43 p.m. CST
I thought ratings were determined by viewers selected to participate in the rating surveys. Is that no longer the case?<p> Asking everyone to watch it is fine, but if everyone in the country watched tonight's episode except for those who record their viewing habits for Nielsen, etc...the show would score a 0.0. No?
May 8, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST
--whatever the channel's calling it. That is, if Fox is stupid (was that a redundant statement?). Memo to Sci-Fi lose most of those stupid, stupid monster movies and ghost hunter marathons. Back Farscape TV movies, more Stargate TV movies and cool series. Hell, invest in new Moonlight eps - the show's drawing bigger numbers, demo-wise, now than it did on CBS (yeah, it's the Twilight factor, but who cares). And bring back Dresden Files.
May 8, 2009, 3:54 p.m. CST
and carved up Whiskey's face. Whiskey was then imprinted with the doctor's personality.
May 8, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 4:17 p.m. CST
Come on now people. Everything from the bad acting right down to the stupid sleeping pods, this show tries to get by with naked (yet obscured) women walking around taking showers together. Its a gimmick! The story sucks! Hell Tru Calling was better than this shit and it sucked too! Fox, kill this and instead use its budget to keep the excellent Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles going!
May 8, 2009, 4:33 p.m. CST
What is it with Whedon and his obsessive need to give characters really stupid names. Angel? Buffy? Alpha? Willow. Xander. Inara Serra. Echo. November. Adelle DeWitt. Half of them sound like My Little Ponies, the rest sound like they're the invention of a high schooler. A name is important to fleshing out a character and giving them some credibility, which is why John McClane is not called Gaylord or Rupert, and John Rambo isn't called Angel. Its only the start of the amateurish nonsense that comes out of his head.
May 8, 2009, 4:51 p.m. CST
Cancel this horrible show! I can't stand the (mostly) awful acting anymore on Dollhouse. Enough already! Renew Terminator instead!
May 8, 2009, 5:12 p.m. CST
You're a stupid character name...but seriously...i can't speak for the Buffyverse b/c i never watched the show but the names of the Dollhouse characters correspond to the phonetic alphabet. Each doll is a different one...I guess that means that each Dollhouse has 26 actives? I don't know but Echo, November, Alpha, Sierra, Victor etc...all part of the phonetic alphabet
May 8, 2009, 5:56 p.m. CST
I just got my sister the Adelle DeWitt My Little Pony for her birthday. It has a detachable friend that falls off and dies. Stop belittling my purchase. <br> </br> And there WAS a character on Buffy called Rupert, and he had a lot of crediblity. This show has its flaws, but not having action-hero-cliche character names is not one of them.
May 8, 2009, 6 p.m. CST
cking hell. I live in the UK and cannot wait for when I wake tomorrow and can watch this sick filth.
May 8, 2009, 6:09 p.m. CST
I like Saturday mornings for much the same reason.
May 8, 2009, 7:24 p.m. CST
The only episode so far that was remotely good was last weeks, and only because Tudyk as Alpha was amazing. Such an awesome twist; and down right scary when he is cutting faces. It is such a shame that it took them 12 episodes to get a good actor on the show.
May 8, 2009, 7:28 p.m. CST
The Save Our Shows campaigns were forever damaged by the "Jericho" disaster. No network will ever take them seriously again.
May 8, 2009, 7:41 p.m. CST
No "Firefly" resurrection for thee!
May 8, 2009, 7:45 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 8:05 p.m. CST
The scar chick is a doll...who knew
May 8, 2009, 8:18 p.m. CST
except a large stock of anal lube
May 8, 2009, 8:22 p.m. CST
Ok, this is the talkback for genre show discussion. I would say Lost, but the problem is that talkback is so active and big, i won't get an answer for this (no, i'm not going to say what you think i am) I just watched 'The Lost Room' miniseries. I was SOOOOOO disappointed with the ending. It was a good ride, but, come on! That could have become an awesome show... and now that BSG's done, there are no awesome shows on Scifi... what the fuck happened there? it was PERFECT to continue, and could have had such a deep mythology to it... i was hoping they'd answer all the mythology related questions they set up because it was a mini series... but, i mean, FUCK, with an ending like that, you just GOTTA turn it into a series. BOOOOOO SCIFI!
May 8, 2009, 8:35 p.m. CST
Should we look up Alpha's original self? "NO THAT'S RIDICULOUS WE COULDN'T POSSIBLY SPARE THE FIVE MINUTES!!" I thought they were smart.
May 8, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST
who keep the original imprints and the backups in the same place; not to mention keeping the copies of the true personalities lying around instead of in a vault somewhere. Is there a reason Topher needs them handy?
May 8, 2009, 8:42 p.m. CST
by Dradis Contact
but wait what about Boyd Langton and Topher Brink...Holland Manners...crap you're right
May 8, 2009, 8:44 p.m. CST
this goes far beyond stupid
May 8, 2009, 8:46 p.m. CST
and sophistication of the hulu commercials shown during the breaks
May 8, 2009, 8:46 p.m. CST
She pobably has some emo story why she doesn't want to go back to her old life that we haven't been made aware of yet.
May 8, 2009, 8:51 p.m. CST
is the only one acting worth a crap this ep,
May 8, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST
Tahmoh Penikett is doing a fair job also<p> The rest are weighed down with hideous dialogue and old and dusty cliches
May 8, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST
He should've just shot her kneecap or something when she started giving him attitude. Aren't there usually more people in this talkback? Are they ALL watching Star Trek?
May 8, 2009, 9 p.m. CST
They'd fix up Victor like new.
May 8, 2009, 9:01 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 9:04 p.m. CST
Not bad, a 7/10, but the ending with what's her face all zombie'd out again. I'm done. Put me down for the cancel this and bring back Terminator section of the talkback. (like one other guy I think)
May 8, 2009, 9:17 p.m. CST
by Bouncy X
that was the little sister from Growing Pains, i thought it was her when i saw the name. nice to see she's still getting work.
May 8, 2009, 9:18 p.m. CST
by UCB Agent1
I've liked the show, but this was a pretty lame resolution. Alpha's past is that he was a criminal on his way towards becoming a serial killer? That's such a cliche it's embarrassing. Also, he essentially had the entire Dollhouse by the balls but chooses to work with them instead? And no one though a psyche profile for the dolls was a good idea? It's just a bit too much to swallow. As "Omega" says, no one can sign a contract to become a slave. I don't mind that show is probably going to canceled if the creators have no interest in actually ADDRESSING the moral questions the show raises. RIP Dollhouse.
May 8, 2009, 9:42 p.m. CST
and Dollhouse will be replaced by a reality show where people swap places with their pets. They live in the dog house and use the kitty litter and the family dog goes into the office every day as head of programming at Fox. You'll like that show.
May 8, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST
Who are unable to appreciate this show are reminded they can always log into The Zone and discuss their favorite moments from last night's Smallville or Grey's Anatomy.
May 8, 2009, 9:51 p.m. CST
But I'm COMPLETELY fucking confused as to why Echo would voluntarily go back under the wipe. That makes no fucking sense. But otherwise, there was quite a bit to enjoy here. This ain't a show that's going to withstand repeat viewings, certainly, but as a one-time plot-heavy drama, the last couple have been pretty decent and posited some interesting questions. But I certainly won't be shelling out for a DVD copy of Season 1.
May 8, 2009, 9:59 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 10:13 p.m. CST
For me, that was the second best episode of the season. The 6th was the best for me.
May 8, 2009, 10:46 p.m. CST
imho Tim Minear is the real talent, not joss.<br> It looks to me like everything people think they like about Joss Wheadon is actually the talented writers/directors that take Joss's corny source ideas and do something with it. Angel: sucked before David Greenwalt and Tim Minear took over. With regards to the dialogs, the writers trying to imitate what they think is joss's style actually end up making better joss wheadon than joss wheadon.
May 8, 2009, 10:53 p.m. CST
Tonight's finale was the best I think. But.. it all depends on what your expectations were. me, I didn't want to be watching a "quantum leap"-type or Hulk-type of show where someone fixes someone's problem every week and moves on.<br><br> I'm more interested in the ghost in the shell, or cyperpunk, idea of people being downloaded into bodies, and what happens around _that_. I'm interested in crime and punishment. <br><br>However, I truly hated the Bonny and Clide personalities, especially Bonny. How cheap and cliche -- like 80's Trek on an Al Capone era planet.
May 8, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST
Kind of brings Lynch to mind, wot? And the excessive camera-tracking brings a lot of other current shows to mind. But it seems like a valid series to me. To bad...
May 8, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST
Alright; back from Trek with a semi and ready to get a full on geek chubby with the series finale. I lurve you time shift TV! <p> (Can't *believe* you guys left MP in here all by himself; he's all depressed now.)
May 8, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST
I agree. Joss was born for HBO. That truly would be a thing of glory.
May 8, 2009, 11:03 p.m. CST
Spinning camera shot! Just like Angel, "Hole in the World" with Fred.
May 8, 2009, 11:04 p.m. CST
He said Togs! That is the best words for clothes ever. And Flipvert! An Angel flipvert; how I missed you.
May 8, 2009, 11:05 p.m. CST
Are "shuffling". Like deck of cards, flipping through personalites...
May 8, 2009, 11:07 p.m. CST
Is this all digital or is a mixture of film & digital? Looks great...
May 8, 2009, 11:09 p.m. CST
Twisted fucker. Holy shite. Acker is....fuck that's twisted.
May 8, 2009, 11:10 p.m. CST
placards if you are going to get Ballard to understand things. DUFUS!
May 8, 2009, 11:12 p.m. CST
To get Badger to believe him...
May 8, 2009, 11:13 p.m. CST
Boyd isn't the replacement Dominic, Ballard is.
May 8, 2009, 11:16 p.m. CST
That was awesome! And Victor had a Joker smile :/~~
May 8, 2009, 11:17 p.m. CST
Caroline just walked by Alpha and he *smelled* her. That was great fucking acting by Alan.
May 8, 2009, 11:19 p.m. CST
Is Alpha just fucking ACTIVATING people off the street!!
May 8, 2009, 11:20 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST
Took me back to my old LSD days of long nights spent contemplating the nature of the psyche and holding conversations with my various selves. Some wacked out dialogue too ... "I'll blow your brain out!" (Holding a gun to the hard drive) ... "I'm not bluffing -- I am! -- Well he may be but the rest of us aren't!" ... "I kick ass!" LOL
May 8, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST
for the secret kissies.
May 8, 2009, 11:22 p.m. CST
Ballard Furniture burn!
May 8, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST
Figures Topher would come up with that lame but tongue twister-y. Seriously, try saying that five times fast...
May 8, 2009, 11:28 p.m. CST
Dude, talk about holding up a mirror...Alpha is going for some extreme rehab on Caroline.
May 8, 2009, 11:30 p.m. CST
Ascenion leads to big Mayor snakes!
May 8, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST
Alpha is making more of what happened. Everyone is dressed in black and white clothes. His accentuating what he did...
May 8, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 11:34 p.m. CST
is way better than thatn Dufus!Ballard.
May 8, 2009, 11:35 p.m. CST
May 8, 2009, 11:36 p.m. CST
Oh Gods??? Oh GODS??
May 8, 2009, 11:38 p.m. CST
Alpha & Omega (Echo) should totally have a dance battle but instead of kicking dance move, they should use sledgehammers! <p> I don't know why you guys didn't like Alpha making "Caroline" watch her own fuckuppery. That was twisted as fuck.
May 8, 2009, 11:40 p.m. CST
Looking for a little nuance.. *squee*
May 8, 2009, 11:41 p.m. CST
because we're EVERYBODY". Soo much...later..
May 8, 2009, 11:44 p.m. CST
That is some serious self realization...
May 8, 2009, 11:46 p.m. CST
Dude, that shit, Alpha point the gun at a MOTHERBOARD was extreme geekasm! *geekgeekgeek* tremble *geek*
May 8, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST
I think Minear is using "Drive" green screen *giggle* That was the worst!
May 8, 2009, 11:48 p.m. CST
He wants to kill her again, and again, and again..
May 8, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST
I am totally going to miss a Ballard/Boyd team up next season.
May 8, 2009, 11:51 p.m. CST
Buffy season five Tower!
May 8, 2009, 11:54 p.m. CST
Doing some adjusting, are you? Do you love her? You poor, poor, sap.
May 8, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST
You are saving November. Goddamn, I'm a sap...
May 8, 2009, 11:56 p.m. CST
... not to trust Fox. Ever.
May 8, 2009, 11:56 p.m. CST
May 9, 2009, midnight CST
Dushku never looked more like SMG in that moment. Even when Faith was Buffy. Eliza gave off the BURDEN that they were trying to give to her from the beginning of the series. Most likely too little, too late but that was excellent on her part.
May 9, 2009, 12:09 a.m. CST
but was in NO WAY "closure" that others - Sepinwall, MoRyan - were suggesting. And that gives me the very uncomfortable feeling that the 13th ep on the DVD might do that. But fuck! I seriously don't like to be jerked the fuck around in that infomercial "BUY THIS & FOR NO ADDITIONAL COST!!" way. It's fucking hackneyed and lame. And until I hear what the commentaries are on the DVD, I'm holding out. <p> PS: Thank you, Tim, Dushku, you fucks at FOX and Whedon for the ride.... <p> *blipvertmindwipe*
May 9, 2009, 12:35 a.m. CST
So they have technology to erase minds but knife wounds can't be fixed? Really? Also, the lollipop gag with the Dr. would have worked so much better if she did it all season long not just one episode. If the series gets a second season there's potential......
May 9, 2009, 1:26 a.m. CST
"the complete series". what I want to know is: does it include the original pilot? I've dying to watch that. <p> and buffywrestling, you know there's a thing called "twitter", right?
May 9, 2009, 1:41 a.m. CST
worse for a series finale.<p> Who was sending Ballard messages thru dolls?<br> Why did he bail Mellie out instead of Caroline?<p> Instead of answering questions it added more.<br> Why did Topher program Whiskey to despise him?<br> How did Alpha end up being such a lame villain?<br> man, to suffer such villain decay in one episode...
May 9, 2009, 2:56 a.m. CST
Everyone else is a doll.
May 9, 2009, 4:30 a.m. CST
Two very different variables. Just because they have they tech to mind-wipe; you can't assume they know everything! <p> And besides, physical damage is not repaired immediatly. They aren't friggin robots....You are watching the wrong show! T:TSCC ended already! <p> PS: Kojak gag would have sucked. And not in the good way.
May 9, 2009, 4:41 a.m. CST
The pilot episode - that is the first one they filmed - was broken up and scattered throughout the series. You will NOT be seeing the first episode in it's entire (it's a completely different situation that what happened with Firefly). <p> However, there is another episode of Dollhouse never before seen that will available on the DVD only. This is the mythic 13th episode called "Epitath One" that is in a word...'Apocalyptic'.
May 9, 2009, 4:49 a.m. CST
All the ass kicking you've taken has made you one sappy sumbitch.<p>Well thank god that mediocre crap is D-O-N-E DONE. Now I'll have more space on my TIVO for the new mediocre crap come September.<p>Wash is yoked I'll give that twitchy mother that one.
May 9, 2009, 5:12 a.m. CST
Alpha was sending messages through the Dolls. Why? Because Ballard was the perfect distraction. He was *willingly* enough to be lead and that got Alpha inside him blowing his cover. <p> Ballard bailed out Mellie (November) because he HAD to. Look, Ballard from the beginning was established as the "hero" the piece. Then he turned into a douchebag when he fucked Mellie when he KNEW it was fucking wrong. (I still hate him a bit for that). Not only did he OWE her, the character had to re-justify his actions to level himself with Boyd. ( And, yes, we still don't what Boyd did; but you don't get to where Boyd did without some serious gray matters). <p> And Topher...Topher is such a child. He's a Peter Pan trying to pin down his own shadow. The fucked up thing is that Adelle and the Dollhouse "conglamerate" totally fucking have confidence in the "science" of the Dollhouse. There is no sum of the equation that will be constant because of the variables! But the Dollhouse continue act on the misguided tech notion of a formula. <p> FUBAR
May 9, 2009, 5:28 a.m. CST
Thanks for watching the mini-series from wherever you are stationed. And thanks for kicking ass and taking names. Bale would be proud...
May 9, 2009, 6:19 a.m. CST
Fox can play my skin flute if they cancel this. I was skeptical of the show at first, but now having seen the season finale I can easily say that season 2 is well warranted.
May 9, 2009, 6:32 a.m. CST
Love these two. They're the best thing this show had so far. Amy Acker was incredibly underused since the show started.
May 9, 2009, 6:37 a.m. CST
One of the best episodes of the season. I also was skeptical, but I'm now looking forward to a potential season 2. Glad to see Mellie gone. Hopefully they will stop using Victor too and bury him in some office. And if they also get rid of Sierra, I will be one happy camper. These were some of the most uncharismatic actors/characters in a Whedon/Minear show ever.
May 9, 2009, 6:44 a.m. CST
When the dolls get off the chair after an imprint, they're always ready for action. I'd expect them to be slightly confused, at least for a few seconds.
May 9, 2009, 7:09 a.m. CST
Was some the most twisted shit I have EVER seen on a TV show. And am I getting this right...The guy asked for it? He PAID for it? Cause that was sex and Hostel. It felt like the movie Hostel having a three way with Whiskey & Alpha. <p> Fucking twisted.
May 9, 2009, 7:14 a.m. CST
By all means aim to echo a movie that clearly influences your show, but to out right steal it's musical signature? <P> Oh Dear.
May 9, 2009, 7:16 a.m. CST
I appreciated the musical cues.
May 9, 2009, 7:39 a.m. CST
Considering his track record with Fox, I think Whedon should have made the effort to close the story off without precluding the possibility of a season 2.<br><br> That's tricky to do I know, but I thought Chuck and Terminator both did great jobs of ending with closure yet leaving things open for continuation.<br><br> Given the undoubted likelihood of cancellation I hope Epitaph One offers more closure to the series...
May 9, 2009, 8:05 a.m. CST
Eternal Sunshine & Blue Velvet?? You guys did get that they did that on purpose, right? God, before it even aired, we were talking about Eternal Sunshine and the parallels... <p> Sunshine I think grasped the concept better but it didn't even approach the darkness that D'House did. Lots of angst in Eternal but Dollhouse set moral standards on it's ear. <p> Seriously, if anyone thought Dollhouse was just about tweak out whores, you didn't watch enough and you probably thought the HBO series "Oz" was just about some guys in prison.
May 9, 2009, 8:13 a.m. CST
There is another episode of Dollhouse. It is available on DVD only. Yes, the fuckers are starting to do this now - not just with Dollhouse but with various other series - to get you to buy the DVD's. It sucks stinky cock! Like I'm not held hostage enough by television and I have to buy series DVD's to hear commentary and they are actually holding out on actual *episodes* of the show too?? <p> Wankers.
May 9, 2009, 8:13 a.m. CST
into a Wedon show, put it on the death slot, then cancel the show and hope to make money from the DVDs. Hopefully they will wise up and realize that the series took a little while to get going and at the very least deserves a second season to see how well it can do at full speed. <p> I thought this was a great season finale that managed to answer a good number of questions but also changed the game enough so that I'm looking forward to the possibility of a second season. It will be interesting to see Agent Ballard try to balance working with and against the Dollhouse from the inside. It reminds me of when Angel and company started working for Wolfram and Hart. <p> Also, the music choice for the last couple of episodes has been great. Roy Orbison, Beck, and Dan Auerbach from the Black Keys. I hope they keep this up.
May 9, 2009, 8:19 a.m. CST
Yes, i get that they did it "on purpose". I still think it was a bad decision and it looked lazy to me. Maybe stealing someone else's signature is in keeping with the dollhouse ethos and works on a meta textual level and i'd have preferred it if they just got someone to make something NEW that did the same job.
May 9, 2009, 8:23 a.m. CST
As Buffywrestling already pointed out, it is an allusion to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind which dealt with similar themes. Also, music can be used more than once. Think about how many times Martin Scorsese has used the Rolling Stone's Gimme Shelter. Now, I do think some songs have been overused, especially songs from the 1960s, and this can be a lazy shortcut. But, in this case, I don't think this was lazy. I think this was deliberate.
May 9, 2009, 8:25 a.m. CST
A bit of a let-down after last week. I was expecting something epic, what we got was just good. Great in parts though. Seeing Caroline in another body was cool, and Wash does creepy psycho guy quite well. Just a shame there wasn't really any sort of ending. Two ex law enforcment guys can't track one limping nutcase through an empty factory? <br> </br> Will it get a 2nd season though? I doubt it.
May 9, 2009, 8:27 a.m. CST
not a factory. One day I will proof read.
May 9, 2009, 8:38 a.m. CST
So you didn't like it. I get that. I personally like "nods" and callbacks. And I don't think it is "lazy" when it actually pertains to situation. Perhaps "hackneyed" but not lazy. They went out their way after all...
May 9, 2009, 8:46 a.m. CST
deliberate and lazy are not mutually exclusive concepts, <p> As far as i know, that version was recorded just for the eternal sunshine movie,so it's more like using someone else's theme song as your own. If you thought it was one thing and i thought it was another, that's cool.<p>
May 9, 2009, 8:50 a.m. CST
The final episode didn't quite live upto the expectations of the previous (and the chase at the power station was like something out of Magnum PI in terms of awfulness...no budget perhaps?) but the themes that were being thrown up were great and the show has a lot of potential to delve even deeper. Here is hoping for a renewal.
May 9, 2009, 8:51 a.m. CST
I was hoping for more surprise revelation. Most people figured out the Whiskey thing so I was hoping for more revelations. It was still entertaining.<br><br>If there is a second season I'm guessing Mellie/November will still be in the cast as she has elements of her time as a doll surface as she tries to reestablish her life.
May 9, 2009, 9:07 a.m. CST
I'm still waiting for this to reach the UK, and am so disappointed to see another Whedon series on the rocks, thanks to Fox. Why does he do this to himself? Abrams and Kring can probably do whatever they please on television and Whedon's right up there with them, if not higher yet his shows are continually relegated to unpopular slots to die off. Then again why do fox even greenlight his shows if they don't like them, or don't know how to pidgeon hole them. Is he in some kind of hell?
May 9, 2009, 9:07 a.m. CST
May 9, 2009, 9:08 a.m. CST
Perhaps when the show is dead and buried Universal will back a film spinoff?
May 9, 2009, 9:21 a.m. CST
kept going through my head every time they said her name. I don't think that specificly was his fantasay because from the way I percieved it it was a fantasay gone wrong. Alpha saw the Handler vans and got spooked and went on the lamb. I'm thinking whiskey was originally the girl that Topher put into Sierra a few weeks back. for some reason or another He feels guilty for her being a doll and being attacked which is why she has the extra computer skills and hates him. I knew ballard was counting on Badger to not believe him and call off the search for the bomb. It made perfect sense.
May 9, 2009, 9:24 a.m. CST
That seems pretty obvious to me, and I'm glad it happened. He feels still feels affection for Mellie and feels really bad his relationship with her. He has no real connection with Caroline, except a professional obsession. <br><br>Carolin needs to stay in the dollhouse to bait Alpha.<br><br>Perhaps Ballard knows that Caroline has been corrupted by Alpha.<br><br>Also, Mellie's not the star of the show ;)
May 9, 2009, 9:24 a.m. CST
I'm 16 minutes into the entire Homicide: Life on the Streets series that I bought from a Herc's `head's up`column and there has been 8 (EIGHT!!) hard up classic lines. The first being John Munch (Richard Belzter) telling a suspect not to lie to him like he was Montell Williams and the last, between Pembleton (Andre Braghauger) and Giardello (Yaffte Koyto) saying it`s not about black; it`s blue. <p> 16 minutes in. Very hard to find a cerebral police drama like that anymore and I compare it to others I watch like the canceled "Life On Mars" or "the Unusuals" or "Southland"
May 9, 2009, 9:28 a.m. CST
I am just wondering at this point. It will lose to ALL the CSI's and Law and Orders... Heck, the CW lineup would take its lunch.
May 9, 2009, 9:33 a.m. CST
into Seirra. Not only was it this weird mastabatory thing that MP pointed out last TB but I also found it sad that Topher only gets along with himself.
May 9, 2009, 9:34 a.m. CST
It's a fucking crime that they're considering canceling a great show like TTSCC but they're being forced into keeping this pathetic Whedon-vomit on the air because the Whedonites will throw a hissy fit if they put it out of its misery. <p> Damn, Eliza Dushku can't act. <p> Damn, this show sucked. Kill it already, and next time just make Joss send his shit straight to video.
May 9, 2009, 9:39 a.m. CST
" Still, in the end, it's better to have a flawed Joss Whedon show on the air than no Joss Whedon show at all." <p> See? Now that's pathetic. Whedonites would rather have a crappy, unwatchable show by their hero than NOT having to watch a crappy show at all. <p> It's called addiction. Seek help.
May 9, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST
were barely hanging on with an average of 1.4 in the demo (Still better than T:TSCC) until ep 9. Then it took a signifigant dip after a week off and a new lead in (this is why Herc is disgruntled with Fox & Prison Break; it's the scheduling NOT the quality he is trying to point out). It went down to a 1.2 *gurgle*. Any - and I mean ANY - fucking chnace Dollhouse has is if the score their series premire rating of a 2.0 in the demo. And with a Trek weekend; that's just not happening.
May 9, 2009, 9:43 a.m. CST
Have you watched it? Which episodes?
May 9, 2009, 9:53 a.m. CST
"The episode, "Omega," does all the things that Whedon's shows do at their best: It delivers action, suspense, quippy dialogue and a tangled set of relationships, all while asking thorny questions about human nature. <p> Around Episode 4 of "Dollhouse," I was doubting whether this show could overcome its rather strained, repetitive beginnings. My doubts are gone now; the most recent bunch of episodes have been stellar. <p> I challenge you to find another show that overtly discusses the malleability of the soul and is also chock full of witty dialogue and bone-breaking action. The TV world would be a much less interesting place if "Dollhouse" weren't in it, though I wonder if one more season of the show is all fans should hope for -- at most." <p> Rest of the article here: <p> http://tinyurl.com/d6toov
May 9, 2009, 9:59 a.m. CST
but was it implied in this ep that the messages Ballard was getting from the dolls were coming from Alpha? Seems unlikely considering he was a nutjob. Its a bit odd this plotline didn't figure in the finale.
May 9, 2009, 10:09 a.m. CST
What you call "nutjob", I call "glitching". It was like he had 43 browsers working at the same time! But I do agree, it was one of the most open-ender season(series) finales of a Whedon production. However, there is still that pesky 13th episode that will be shown on the DVD only. It might cap that sucker tight.
May 9, 2009, 10:22 a.m. CST
I'm not bluffing!<br><br> Neither am I!<br><br> I am!
May 9, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST
The more I think about this episode, the more disappointed in it that I am. I think what disappoints me the most are the amount of missed opportunities in it. First, Alpha (though played well by Alan Tudyk) came across as a rather lame villain. After all of the buildup and his appearance in last week's episode, I was expecting an active who was brilliant and practically unbeatable (thus explaining why Adelle and Topher were so terrified of him). But, the show made the mistake of having him only appear in one full episode (last week didn't count since the Alpha personality didn't appear until the last 10 minutes, the rest of the time he was in his stoner persona). As a result, they couldn't have him appear and display his brilliance and toughness. By the necessity of design, they had to have him defeated (of sorts) by the end of the episode which them relegates him to just a standard villain-of-the-week, not some arch villain whom we should dread appearing. Also, they failed to do anything with Alpha/Echo. You have the scariest of the Actives (according to the Dollhouse) and they're best current active (as seen in the season) out on the loose and, outside of kidnapping a store clerk, they don't really do much except talk most of the episode (with the exception of a brief fight at the end). It would have been far more interesting to actually see the villains act "villainous" and go on a true "Natural Born Killers"-style rampage. That would have made the finding of them by the Dollhouse to have greater impact and would have further justified Alpha's buildup. Also, the last 20 minutes felt far too cliched. As with most bad action movies, you have the villain explaining his master plan when, in reality, he would just kill the hero. Also, you have a chance on the roof for no particular reason complete with a gunfight (I almost felt like I was watching an episode of TJ Hooker for a moment). The entire final fight outside of the building felt very forced and didn't play on who the characters were (see "Becoming Part 2" of Buffy for how to stage a final fight between characters). And, add to that all of the RIDICULOUS implausibilities (the drive lands just right on the beam and Ballard happens to be standing exactly under it at just the right moment. I know we're supposed to accept some things for the sake of the story but that felt like lazy writing and I expect more from a Joss Whedon production. Another bothersome thing is that when Caroline woke up and saw herself, she reacted way too calmly. Imagine waking up after 5 years and suddenly realizing you were in a different body. Would you be calm and cool about it? No, you would react the way the Dominic persona did last week and be confused. Even if you understood the process, it would still freak you out a bit and they missed that chance here. Another flaw -- Ballard's saving of Mellie/November at the end. We're not sure what exactly he gave up but, apparently, it was pretty big. The thing is that it makes little sense that he would do it for November as opposed to Echo. Throughout the entire season, we're told that his obsession was with Echo/Caroline and she was his driving motivation for bringing down the Dollhouse. Just last week, he made it very clear that he would first rescue Caroline and then he might try to free the others (including November) if he could. As for November, it was clear his feelings for her changed the moment he realized she was an active. Thus, for him to suddenly make a noble gesture for her made little sense. It would have been far more logical for him to do it for Caroline. That scene could have been saved had they either built up his feelings for November more or if they had a few extra lines of dialogue where Adelle said that she would never free Caroline early but she would allow November to appear. By omitting both things, it dampened the impact that scene should have had. But the biggest gripe of all is the lack of closure. If it was certain the show was returning in the fall, then the open questions (what did Ballard give up? why does Saunders hate Topher? Who was the inside person at the Dollhouse? What is it's true purpose?) would be acceptable. But, because that was far from certain, it feels insulting to not attempt to end it with some sense of finality. What bothers me is that Joss Whedon knows how to do that. Watch "Prophecy Girl" of Buffy Season 1 again. In the commentary, Whedon says that he designed it so that, had the show not been picked up for a second season, it would have worked as a series finale and it does. It was open enough to allow for future episodes but, had the show ended there, it would have been a satisfactory end. "Omega" is not even CLOSE to satisfactory and that is bothersome since, unless Whedon knows something about the show's chances of renewal that the media doesn't, that's insulting to the fans to not give it a sense of closure. But the show wasn't all bad. The only strong part was the backstory on Whiskey/Dr. Saunders. Even though I was suspecting her being an active, her sudden appearance at the beginning was very well done. And, they did handle her realization as to what she was quite well. Amy Acker played the character with a realistic sense of sadness and numbness which is believable and made me wish that they had devoted more of the episode to just her character. Imagine finding out that you're entire life is a lie and that it was just programmed into you along with memories and feelings. It's more than plausible that you would react like Saunders did at the end and that was very well done. Overall rating (out of 100) -- 60/100
May 9, 2009, 10:26 a.m. CST
I'd program Amy Acker to do all kinds of stuff! I hope this show gets renewed just for her.
May 9, 2009, 10:27 a.m. CST
This was a copy of a post I did on echo alert forum and I didn't realize that it didn't copy paragraph breaks. The post reads better with them.
May 9, 2009, 10:29 a.m. CST
get out of the way.
May 9, 2009, 10:29 a.m. CST
From what I heard, "Epitaph One" isn't a series ender either. It's a stand-alone episode that just imagines life 30 years in the future if Dollhouses took over the world.
May 9, 2009, 10:34 a.m. CST
still reading (and it looks good so far!) but for such a large block of commentary, it is easier to read if you use paragraph breaks. It's basic hmtl on this site: <p> < p > (remove the spaces inbetween characters) <p> Cheers!
May 9, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST
Two faces from way back, nice to see them again. :)
May 9, 2009, 10:43 a.m. CST
The more I think about this episode, the more disappointed in it that I am. <p> <p> I think what disappoints me the most are the amount of missed opportunities in it. First, Alpha (though played well by Alan Tudyk) came across as a rather lame villain. After all of the buildup and his appearance in last week's episode, I was expecting an active who was brilliant and practically unbeatable (thus explaining why Adelle and Topher were so terrified of him). But, the show made the mistake of having him only appear in one full episode (last week didn't count since the Alpha personality didn't appear until the last 10 minutes, the rest of the time he was in his stoner persona). As a result, they couldn't have him appear and display his brilliance and toughness. By the necessity of design, they had to have him defeated (of sorts) by the end of the episode which them relegates him to just a standard villain-of-the-week, not some arch villain whom we should dread appearing. <p> <p>Also, they failed to do anything with Alpha/Echo. You have the scariest of the Actives (according to the Dollhouse) and they're best current active (as seen in the season) out on the loose and, outside of kidnapping a store clerk, they don't really do much except talk most of the episode (with the exception of a brief fight at the end). It would have been far more interesting to actually see the villains act "villainous" and go on a true "Natural Born Killers"-style rampage. That would have made the finding of them by the Dollhouse to have greater impact and would have further justified Alpha's buildup. <p> <p>Also, the last 20 minutes felt far too cliched. As with most bad action movies, you have the villain explaining his master plan when, in reality, he would just kill the hero. Also, you have a chance on the roof for no particular reason complete with a gunfight (I almost felt like I was watching an episode of TJ Hooker for a moment). The entire final fight outside of the building felt very forced and didn't play on who the characters were (see "Becoming Part 2" of Buffy for how to stage a final fight between characters). And, add to that all of the RIDICULOUS implausibilities (the drive lands just right on the beam and Ballard happens to be standing exactly under it at just the right moment. I know we're supposed to accept some things for the sake of the story but that felt like lazy writing and I expect more from a Joss Whedon production. <p> <p>Another bothersome thing is that when Caroline woke up and saw herself, she reacted way too calmly. Imagine waking up after 5 years and suddenly realizing you were in a different body. Would you be calm and cool about it? No, you would react the way the Dominic persona did last week and be confused. Even if you understood the process, it would still freak you out a bit and they missed that chance here. <p> <p>Another flaw -- Ballard's saving of Mellie/November at the end. We're not sure what exactly he gave up but, apparently, it was pretty big. The thing is that it makes little sense that he would do it for November as opposed to Echo. Throughout the entire season, we're told that his obsession was with Echo/Caroline and she was his driving motivation for bringing down the Dollhouse. Just last week, he made it very clear that he would first rescue Caroline and then he might try to free the others (including November) if he could. As for November, it was clear his feelings for her changed the moment he realized she was an active. Thus, for him to suddenly make a noble gesture for her made little sense. It would have been far more logical for him to do it for Caroline. That scene could have been saved had they either built up his feelings for November more or if they had a few extra lines of dialogue where Adelle said that she would never free Caroline early but she would allow November to appear. By omitting both things, it dampened the impact that scene should have had. <p> <p>But the biggest gripe of all is the lack of closure. If it was certain the show was returning in the fall, then the open questions (what did Ballard give up? why does Saunders hate Topher? Who was the inside person at the Dollhouse? What is it's true purpose?) would be acceptable. But, because that was far from certain, it feels insulting to not attempt to end it with some sense of finality. What bothers me is that Joss Whedon knows how to do that. Watch "Prophecy Girl" of Buffy Season 1 again. In the commentary, Whedon says that he designed it so that, had the show not been picked up for a second season, it would have worked as a series finale and it does. It was open enough to allow for future episodes but, had the show ended there, it would have been a satisfactory end. "Omega" is not even CLOSE to satisfactory and that is bothersome since, unless Whedon knows something about the show's chances of renewal that the media doesn't, that's insulting to the fans to not give it a sense of closure. <p> <p>But the show wasn't all bad. The only strong part was the backstory on Whiskey/Dr. Saunders. Even though I was suspecting her being an active, her sudden appearance at the beginning was very well done. And, they did handle her realization as to what she was quite well. Amy Acker played the character with a realistic sense of sadness and numbness which is believable and made me wish that they had devoted more of the episode to just her character. Imagine finding out that you're entire life is a lie and that it was just programmed into you along with memories and feelings. It's more than plausible that you would react like Saunders did at the end and that was very well done. <p> <p>Overall rating (out of 100) -- 60/100
May 9, 2009, 10:50 a.m. CST
Wanda from E!online - the only person to deliver that "breaking" 13th epiosde news (And there was NO second collabaration; just the re-telling of her story spread throughtout the internet) that it is not 30 years in the future and it does feature the original cast. And I know Whedon has been backing this up. <p> But Whedon is old school when it comes to spoilers and he has said - recently - that he is willingly going to spread misinformtion about his projects. <p> Kinda one of the things I love about him. It's a *total* douchebag move but he's doing it for the sake of spoiler whores, like myself. Tough love and all that. <p> If the 30 year scenario turns out to be true, I'll like it. If it doesn't, I'll probably love it.
May 9, 2009, 11:01 a.m. CST
@buffywrestling: The most open-ended season ender was Angel Season 3. Damn. <p> @syoungkin: Alpha's monologue was perhaps stereotypical, but it wasn't as bad as telling your plot to the hero -- he was telling his plot to what he thought would be his partner for the future, which would make sense if Echo turned out the way he planned. I do agree that stretching out the Alpha arc would have been nice. <p> Agree largely with your middle points... <p> Ironically, I have the reverse position on you regarding Ballard saving Mellie. Your edits would make it seem obvious that Ballard would save Mellie or that it was his only choice. What is distinctive about Ballard saving Mellie was that it appeared as if he *had* a choice, and he chose to rescue Mellie. He couldn't rescue November, because November could have killed him. I think someone earlier had put it best in that Caroline was a professional obsession, but Ballard actually cared for Mellie/November (which makes the whole taking advantage of scene more horrific and more painful). The bait and switch was intentional, because we were supposed to suspect he was going to free Caroline, but it should have been an "ah-ha" moment, seeing Mellie. That said, if the show didn't pull that off effectively, then I would agree, they messed up somewhere -- but I think they messed up in the preceding story arc rather than in this particular scene. <p> Amy Acker is great.
May 9, 2009, 11:08 a.m. CST
Who ever he downloaded into sierra wanted to play with the "sleepies" as she called them. I think Topher knows better than to do something like that. There has got to be a reason he programed the new Doctor Saunders to hate him and I think thats why.
May 9, 2009, 11:15 a.m. CST
Amy Acker portrays "numbness" in a credible and interesting way. Eliza makes "numbness" look too blank and stupid. <P>
May 9, 2009, 11:22 a.m. CST
Buffywrestling--Joss is very good about screwing around with spoiler sites as shown with shows like Angel so it is more than likely the, admittedly, unsubstantiated rumors of "Epitaph One"'s plot is bogus. I am definately getting the DVD because I am intrigued as to what it exactly is (and to complete my Whedon tv series collection). <p><p> Arguendo -- You make very good points about the Ballard scene. My edits would have made it obvious and take away the "aha" moment when Mellie (and not Caroline) walked into the room. I think my problem was more in the arc than in the actual scene because I didn't feel the character's emotional investment that would result in him choosing to save Mellie as opposed to Caroline. If they had rewritten episodes earlier in the arc, to make it clearer that he loved Mellie than that scene could have had the "aha" moment (the way the reveals of Whiskey and Alpha did) but still feel justified.
May 9, 2009, 11:23 a.m. CST
from Live Feed: <p> May 09, 2009 'Dollhouse' finale ratings delayed... <p> Should be in later today, says Nielsen ... will post them here when they come in."
May 9, 2009, 11:26 a.m. CST
twaddle and a bag of piss. I need my ratings fix!
May 9, 2009, 11:29 a.m. CST
I agree. The saddest thing about the series is that it displayed the limits of Eliza Dushku's acting abilities. <p><p> With the exception of "Haunted" and "Omega" (and, briefly, the housewife at the beginning of "Man on the Street" which, while funny, was WAY overplayed), she was basically playing the same character each time -- the tough chick. Dichen Lachman (Sierra) and Enver Gjokaj (Victor) had a wider group of characters to play (particularly Enver). It might have been the writing or Eliza's acting abilities but her characters tended to come off as one-note and not very interesting after a while. <p><p>As a proof of the difference, Acker's performance as Alpha's girlfriend (in the flashback) proved to be more interesting than Eliza's performance of the same character.
May 9, 2009, noon CST
I'm not surprised Alpha had flaws. Not only becasue he had so many downloads into him at once but they established early on - first ep? - that they tried to retain some sort of balance. It's why they couldn't make a "perfect" doll that was a kickass machine (Top Gun > Asthma). And I thought that, given the time retraints, that Alan pulled off a great - no, fanfuckintastic - two eps. But I will say, if they had would just jumped into the Dollhouse storyline entire instead of doing those stand alone ep in the very beginning, I would have been much more pleased. But I guess as exec producer and it was her development deal, Eliza was showcased in the first five episodes. The focus most definatly changed after the 6th ep though and became a more ensemble piece; all the better for, imo. <p> I think there were too many recalls to Mickey & Mallory. It was getting to a point where I was close to eye-rolling if they were going to push that envelope anymore but Minear twisted out with a rebellion disguised as a lover's spat. <p> Ballard OWED Mellie. Not November but Mellie. And maybe the girl she ws before she signed on to the D'House. He weaponed-sexed her. And yes, she asked him to sleep with her but he knew she was compromised. That not only makes our hero conflicted but also a bit of a douchebag. <p> Whiskey!Saunder was the most telegraphed and suspected storyline of the Dollhouse from the beginning. The most fleshed out stories, imo, belonged to Adelle, Seirra & November. They set all three of them up with strengths & weaknesses with very little screen time but they made each one count.
May 9, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST
I had no problem with Alpha being flawed and slightly psychotic. All villains have some flaw that eventually brings them down, whether's its insanity, hubris, or some hidden affection for a person. Also, I had no problems with Alan Tudyk. I agree that he did a really good job with what little screen time he had. <p><p> My problem was with how the show treated the character. He was mentioned briefly at the beginning of the series and then ignored him until the end (with the exception of a VERY BRIEF mention in "Grey Hour"). As I mentioned in my earlier post, if we had heard or seen some of his earlier exploits then it could have built up the character more as a Big Bad. Buffy and Angel did much better jobs with their arch villains (Angelus, The Master, The Mayor, Glory, The Beast) so it surprised me that they fumbled so badly with Alpha. <p><p>As for Sierra, I REALLY wanted more of her backstory. Just the brief glimpse we got in "Needs" (where we found out that she was basically sold to the Dollhouse by an ULTRA sleezy rich guy) teased me enough that I wished we had seen more. Who was the guy? Why did he sell her? Did she agree to be sold or was she forced? How did she know him? They could have played on these stories and, should there be a second season, I hope they cover that.
May 9, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST
It just occurred to me this morning but, where did they get the personalities for the actives from? With the exception of "Haunted" (where we're told the woman willingly downloaded herself) and, perhaps, Briar Rose (where the little girl was probably told that she was undergoing a study when she was downloaded), where did all of the other ones come from? <p><p> One explanation is that they came from real people (as mentioned in "Ghost"). My problems with that is: 1) Why did the people react so normally when waking up in another body? Was it programmed so that they didn't realize they were in a totally different body? 2) How did they get these real personalities? Did people come in willingly and give them up (so much for a "secret" organization then!)? <P><p>They were made up personalities. This would cover the questions for #1 and would allow for great freedom of change on Topher's part (to allow him to add special skills, etc) but the episodes appear to lean more towards theory 1 than 2 so I wished they had made that clear as well. <p><p>Who knows...maybe if it gets renewed, these nagging questions can get covered?
May 9, 2009, 12:30 p.m. CST
Did I read your off topic post correctly above, did you compare The OC Cop Show to the sainted Homicide: Life on the Street? Now I enjoy Ryan Atwood Cop for what it is, but please tell me I misread that becasue Atwoods show is not in the same league as homicide.<p> For what it's worth Life on Mars and The Unusuals aren't either, but like The Atwood Show they are decently entertaining outings. Homicide is in class all by itself, except maybe for the last two seasons but up till then...
May 9, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST
I always thought it was implied that the personalities were ONCE real people, and that (with the exception of the dead woman in Haunted) there was some "tinkering" which prevented them from realising they were in a new body. To them, they were just living as normal. <p> Of course there is the possibility that its just left vague on purpose, so the writers can fill in the blanks as they go. If this does get a second season, I'm sure this type of stuff will be delved into.
May 9, 2009, 12:48 p.m. CST
Somewhat muddled and anti climactic... Kinda like a "Fuck it - we're fucked anyway let's not bother..." Someone make sure and upload the other episode when the DVD comes out... if I still give a shit by then...
May 9, 2009, 12:48 p.m. CST
It's because the aren't one whole memory download (with the exculsion of the woman in "Ghost"). Dolls are wiped clean (supposedly; we know this is false but that is the snake-oil that the company is pitching). I had the same question as you - How come the wife in "Man on the Street" didn't remember that she died if the woman in "Ghost could? <p> Then I was reminded that early on they established that it was bits & pieces of memories downloaded that made up the Doll's imprint. That also connects to the flaw that they have to intergrate because they can not make a Doll "perfect". <p> I don't think they gave much of a background on who or why some people get archived. I suggested a couple of talkbacks ago that they could get military, industry & political leaders archived in case of assasination attempts. Like a livejournal for heads of state! And if Dollhouse is as big as they suggested (20 Dollhouses worldwide), this could not only lead to neferious practices like blackmail but terroist activity and Buffy-like apocalyspe. That is why when I heard about the "30 years in the future" thing, I didn't question it until a reliable plant on whedonesque[dot]com refutted that scenario.
May 9, 2009, 12:59 p.m. CST
I came off a bit sluggish but I was trying to compare a true dramatic murder police series (Homicide) to what we have now-a-days. <p> I mean, I "watch" the others in the same way I watch "Heroes"; I have it on in the background while I do something else. I liked the Shield. But you could tell it was trying to be Peabody award winning Homicide but just couldn't reach it. I mean, could Dutch be anymore like Bayliss? Please...
May 9, 2009, 1:08 p.m. CST
Is it Christmas?!
May 9, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST
From the GoldDerby Emmy forum: "Fox's Dollhouse hit its lowest rating ever for its season finale. <p> "Joss Whedon's series was seen by 2.8 million viewers and earned a 1.0 preliminary adults 18-49 rating. That rating could improve in the nationals as the show had a minute of Prison Break overrun, which pulled a slightly lower number - 3m viewers, 0.9 rating. But that would mean, at best, matching last week's season low of a 1.1. <p> "The chances of Dollhouse getting a second season are extremely slim at this point. A couple months ago, the sense was that Fox was hoping to bring back either Terminator or Dollhouse. Then Terminator fell out of the running. But I now don't see Fox bringing back Dollhouse either, with its numbers sliding with each episode (see full season chart below). A 1.1 is a bubble show - on the CW. It would take some very creative financing to make a renewal work and a giant leap of faith considering that ratings for serialized shows tend to drop between seasons."
May 9, 2009, 1:12 p.m. CST
Why the deux, dude?
May 9, 2009, 1:25 p.m. CST
I asked for a Party Down talkback last week in the DH one, then I found out I was 'blocked'. No worries. Turketron and Xiphos also sport '2's so why not go the Hot Shots (remember that w/Charlie Sheen?) route. :)
May 9, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST
...just what the fuck is it with you and Fox? Why are you seemingly tied at the hip with them and can't take your shows elsewhere - Dollhouse finally kicks in at the finale, and after all the really sub-par, cheap-lookin crap episodes at the start, it looks like it won't be renewed...<p><p> Sheesh, man, do Fox own you or something?
May 9, 2009, 1:32 p.m. CST
Agreed. Evidently there's some latent training in the dolls outside of the personalities which I assume includes some underlying script that explains where they are in the first place and blocks out specific knowledge of where they are, e.g., Mellie thinking she is in the airport, as well as all of their great willingness to get a "treatment." <p> Still, I do find it interesting where they get all these personalities... but I also did presume it was something they might have delved into in the future. I suppose they might keep back-ups of old dolls. <p> Investigate their purpose! <p> Wait what? We still don't know what that is... if you are looking for an open-ended ending.
May 9, 2009, 1:33 p.m. CST
http://tinyurl.com/pbl8vx <p> Check it out compared the the DVD cover in Herc's article. There are two major developments.. <p> (Fucking FOX..*snort*)
May 9, 2009, 1:36 p.m. CST
was "Everybody's got to learn sometime" originally by the Korgis in 1980(it's better than the one in the show). I spent 20 years looking for that song and couldn't find it 'til the internet came about.
May 9, 2009, 1:36 p.m. CST
WHEW! that's a relief you had me worried.
May 9, 2009, 1:38 p.m. CST
Is this your first banning? When you get up to thirteeen or fourteen then we'll talk you piker.
May 9, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST
That sucks, man. I think too many people stooged about getting spoiled in the DH TB and we got maderated. I contributed in the "free-for-all" friday thing but I didn't know it was going to inconvience anyone. Sorry, man.
May 9, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
So I wander how many Gigs you need to hold a human soul?
May 9, 2009, 1:51 p.m. CST
...and no, that's not an opinion. It's fact. Fuck you, you fucking know-nothing morons.
May 9, 2009, 1:52 p.m. CST
Although PD was excellent as usual last night, this day isn't; it's the 5th anniversary of my mom's death - she died on Mother's Day 2004 from congestive heart and lung failure. You know the thing 'time heals all wounds'? It's bullshit when you care about and love someone as I did with my mom. I wish everybody had a mom like mine. :)
May 9, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST
eliza dushku is not on screen, i really like the idea, and the other actors are great. she just annoys me though.
May 9, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST
Fux is basing a renewal decision on ratings from the night a highly-anticipated motion picture (Star Trek) opens? That's just dumb planning... <p> <p> Or, maybe not. Could be shrewd if the suits <b>wanted</b> the show to get low ratings!
May 9, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST
I know it sucks when one of your shows ends but it's Whedon and you should be used to it by now.
May 9, 2009, 1:58 p.m. CST
I know it's hard. Especially this weekend. Big hugs to you and your family [[[HUG]]] / high fives to Moms
May 9, 2009, 2:02 p.m. CST
makes YOU a douchebag FACT. You should aspire to a higher calling then to be the asslicker, it's an unhealthy pursuit.
May 9, 2009, 2:07 p.m. CST
There is ALWAYS going to be something (Event movies, play-offs, etc.). It either hangs or it doesn't. I wish Fox would have kept it's orignal plan and left it on after 24 but then we might not have got the full 12 season order. Other side of that, is that more people could have watched it live instead of having the high DVR numbers. But total BOO! on Fox for the PR fuck ups. Along with the "Friday Night Death Slot", it was like sending a batter in with no helmet and throwing pitches high inside.
May 9, 2009, 2:15 p.m. CST
...it was painfully boring. The only interesting twist was the revelation of "Whikey," but even though it was INTERESTING, it was also STUPID, because at this point I'm fucking sick and tired of EVERYONE ON THE SHOW BEING A DOLL. Jesus, that twist is getting old. It was just amazing how the big final confrontation was so incredibly bland and low-key. With three good episodes this year and 9 that were bland, this show is the kind of sub-par TV we need less of. Sorry Joss.
May 9, 2009, 2:25 p.m. CST
Did you post last week how you liked last week's episode or do just post when something sucks?
May 9, 2009, 2:30 p.m. CST
I blame Fox, for withholding the actual last episode--"we won't air it--buy the dvd"<p>Whedon should do direct to HULU HD shows, followed or in parallel with dvds. We don't need freaking networks anymore--they drag the shows out, split the seasons, cancel in the middle. Break the business model of the networks.<p>This episode was a good episode for building backstory, reveals, etc. but not as either a season or series finale. I hope it gets a second season so there can be some follow thru and closure, but I am not hopeful.<p>Maybe, since Fox signed the development deal with Dushku and not Whedon, they are committed to spend some money on her anyway, and that will push them to give it a better shot.<p>But the suits effin with the scripts, changing the order of the story, and shelving episodes--well, tools they are, one and all.
May 9, 2009, 2:34 p.m. CST
Felt like a 22 episode season cut in the middle. Ah, well.
May 9, 2009, 2:59 p.m. CST
I thought it was a good episode, just hate that it most likely get chopped. <p> Fox will never learn.
May 9, 2009, 4:25 p.m. CST
...the best show on TV.
May 9, 2009, 5:18 p.m. CST
Reading a JLA book, thought you Whedon guys might get a little kick out of the line (said to a vampire, Crucifer): The only thing worse than cheerleaders named buffy, are slayer girls named Faith.
May 9, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST
"...and no, that's not an opinion. It's fact. Fuck you, you fucking know-nothing morons." Well well, we've certainly found our high horse this fine day. I enjoy a good deal of Whedon's stuff (Dr. Horrible and Firefly, both just fucking fantastic) but you can't blame people for disliking him or his work. Its not everyone's cup of tea. Especially here at coax where people treat him like a demi-god (or at least did at one point). Its why my life's mission is to see Chuck get cancelled.
May 9, 2009, 5:58 p.m. CST
http://tinyurl.com/qbts5t In my opinion, it's much better with the extra scenes. For one thing, the scene where Sierra and November get imprinted makes sense, and Alpha's disappearance is better. Here's hoping they filmed the scenes and they'll be edited in for DVD.
May 9, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST
I thought this episode was going to touch on that... And who was sending the agent dude signals from inside the dollhouse? But no, they ignored all of that. No cliffhanger or anything, quite lame as far as season finales go.. and especially lame as far as show finales go.
May 9, 2009, 6:36 p.m. CST
So, they state to Caroline that five years will feel like an instant. It seemed November (forgot her *real* name) became a doll to avoid dealing with the loss of her child. So, how is it supposed to help her (presumably deal with grief, etc.) if it feels like an instant? It makes as much sense as freezing the convicts in Demolition Man. ("For your crimes, you are sentenced to wake up tomorrow in a high-tech future!")
May 9, 2009, 7:07 p.m. CST
"awakened" a little earlier than scheduled. Otherwise she's going to walk out of there thinking it's a year or more later than it is.
May 9, 2009, 9:09 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
May 9, 2009, 9:10 p.m. CST
I'm in the process of writing a paper about blogging, fandom and textual poaching. I've bought a handful of books on the subjects (and how they are inter-related) and have been using alot of stuff found in Henry Jenkins books. But the reason I'm posting is that a long chapter in Jenkins' 'Fans, Bloggers and Gamers' is called "The Monsters Next Door:" A father-son dialogue about Buffy, Moral Panic, and generational differences. Good read.
May 9, 2009, 9:54 p.m. CST
I almost forgot to ask (which would suck given this is the last talkback) As I said last week, I was waiting for the season to end, so now that it has-- did they tie up enough loose ends to enjoy the season even if its cancelled? I REALLY want to like this show, and I really want it to get a second season because buffy's first was quite mediocre, but damn it got good in season 2, and then we all know the rest. Now, even if it is cancelled and doesn't tie up loose ends, is it either so good its worth watching even though there's no conclusion. or is it mediocre enough to enjoy but not care that it doesn't get an ending? The absolute worst case scenario is that its so good that i fall in love with it like firefly only to have my heart broken because of untapped potential.... and i am highly doubtful it gets a movie (understatement). So now that the season's over, what's the verdict?
May 9, 2009, 11:14 p.m. CST
Holy molly! Check the photoshop job there! They reconstructed Eliza's face and boobs completely for the final DVD, even removing the hear of the dummy. It's practically hand-painted at this point
May 10, 2009, 1:52 a.m. CST
Fist, can someone tell me how or why Eliza Dushku even has a developmental deal wit Fox? Who did she have to blow to get that? What are qualifications that warrant it? Why in the hell was there a mandate to create a show at Fox, where she is not only the star, but also gets a "producer" credit? WTF? Don't get e wrong, I really enjoy looking at her- she is a sultry beauty, thin but not skinny, large rounxd eyes, full pouty lips. I could pleasure myself to the opening title sequence to the show for god's sake. On another note, I'm about 60/40 for this show. I like it more than I don't. But will it get renewed? Absolutle not. My biggest problem with the show was the preise with the dollhouse itself...why would soeone need to pay huge money for a midwife, a child counselor (I didn't buy the whole, "this is a compositie of her future self" bullshit, since the kid was completely forgotten about by the second half), a kidnap negotiator, a fun outdoorsy chick, a dominatrix, a back up singer/bodyguard, etc. Like Herc once said, there are people found with these simple abilities available for hire at much reduced fees in real life. Who would go to a "dollhouse and spend, how much, 10K, 50K, 100K or more for a midwife? Come on.....But if you can get past this one (admittedly huge) flaw, the philosopical questions raised by the show were complex and intriguing, but this show should never been a show- maybe a movie, or a limited run series (which it turned out to be anyway) like the under-appreciated "Daybreak" with Taye Diggs. Dushku is not a very versatile actress and I'm sure that has as much to do with anything with why the show veered away from the obnoxious "engagment of the week" format to the more interesting and complex ensemble piece that it became. Alpha turned out to be a weak non-threatening villain. He was too much of a tweaker to even really be scary, and any guy that buff that can get has ass kicked by a 5'5" 105 pound girl with a manicure deserves it. Just my two cents though.
May 10, 2009, 2:42 a.m. CST
For a midseason show i thought it did ok, not great, just ok. I feel that if it got a full season order it would have time to grow and find itself. I just dont think Fox will give it that chance.
May 10, 2009, 3:34 a.m. CST
Run it through an app called "DivFix++". That fixed it for me. Hope it does get given a change and a second season!
May 10, 2009, 6:13 a.m. CST
I swear this show hasn't delivered one genuine twist or surprise so far that I didn't see coming. And the much bally-hooed two part season finale? Mediocrity, as usual. Sure, there were moments where it showed glimpses of something better, as have happened ever so rarely throughout the season, but mostly it's just more of the same paint by numbers and painfully episodic storytelling that goes nowhere and ultimately achieves nothing. Firefly deserved better than it got, Dollhouse has already gotten more than it deserves. When cancellation comes, this time it's a mercy kill, freeing up a whole bunch of talent to hopefully go back to their creative wells and come up with something better, something that works, something that isn't a 'high concept' pitch idea realised in the most unimaginative, unentertaining and flacid way possible. Because you know if they do bring this flatliner back for another go around you know that the eventual big reveal, which will be dragged out for as long as possible, is that they are all dolls. That's everyone's 'secret' history. Yeah, it's just that original...yawn.
May 10, 2009, 7:26 a.m. CST
by Vir Cotto
and hopefully it will never come back. Whedon is so overrated...
May 10, 2009, 8:03 a.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Fringe is a better overall show. <P> ... <P> (never thought I'd write that about a Whedon project)
May 10, 2009, 8:43 a.m. CST
by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl
As far as people saying it's the worst thing that Whedon's ever done, they should really pop in a copy of Titan A.E. into their dvd player and try watching that again. <p> As far as Dollhouse is concerned, yes I'd love to see how things would play out in a second season but I think I could be satasfied enough by the faux-finale (still have to wait until the box set is released to see the true finale). <p> I also keep hearing rumors of a new Buffy movie possibly being fast tracked and as a Buffy fan I hope it doesn't happen. If anything I'd rather see something like a movie version of Fray where it's somewhat of a clean slate. However things play out I'll be looking forward to whatever Joss and company puts out next.
May 10, 2009, 12:10 p.m. CST
bloody hell, upon first viewing I thought it was some dodgy acting/bad writing when he imprinted Alpha with 49 personalities and oh noes it went wrong? Well fuck, of course it went wrong. Topher planned it all, Alpha didn't even glance in his direction after the accident. So his first act is to destroy his original personality, strikes me the first thing I'd do is carve up the only other genius in the Dollhouse that can pose a threat, Topher. But Alpha didn't. Shame we'll have to wait for the inevitable Dollhouse season 2 comic book for the answer.
May 10, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST
Topher is the evil genius behind all the big badness? Too bad Whedon doesn't hire you, that would be a great story line. I wish Dollhouse could get 13 more episodes to just wrap it all up.
May 10, 2009, 5:53 p.m. CST
he was acting in a Batman episode from the 1960's! I was expecting Adam West as Batman to charge in to save Echo! That's how campy his acting was as Alpha.
May 10, 2009, 9:32 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
was directed/over-seen by Don Bluth, while Dollhouse is over-seen by show-runner Joss Whedon. So I think it's still safe to say Dollhouse is the worst thing Whedon's done in his own right (which compared to alot of other stuff on TV is still pretty good). I don't think the alien-kangaroo in Titan A.E. was Whedon's fault, but the choice of Dushku as a leading actor probably is.
May 11, 2009, 3:27 a.m. CST
by The McPoyle Clan
Where his bad work outweighs his good? I know his cult will always worship every character he types, but how about everyone else? Even if he manages to do another good project, will it, and he be pigeonholed as a niche dweller?
May 11, 2009, 7:33 a.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
To have a near-miss with Dollhouse and Serenity doesn't mean he makes bad stuff now. There are plenty of worse show-runners in the industry. cough*Tim Kring*cough
May 11, 2009, 7:47 a.m. CST
...probably the worst trainwreck on tv. <p></p><p>I wrote my first post on Opposite Day</p>
May 11, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST
Didn't catch up on "Briar Rose" until this Friday, actually, so no, I didn't post last week. I was putting it off due to apathy, but when I watched it I was like "HEY, this is pretty damn solid."
May 11, 2009, 10:59 a.m. CST
Which was his attempt at characterization in "Dodgeball."
May 11, 2009, 12:22 p.m. CST
The point is not so much that those of us who LIKE Whedon's shows think he is some sort of God who can do no wrong - if that's how you want to characterize us as a group, fine...but you are, of course, wrong. The point is, there are demonstrably shittier shows on television which continuously get renewed over and over again due to most networks' shameless pandering to the bloated attention-deficit masses, or to the fact that their CEOs belong to that same pathetic category - for instance, anyone who argued that Firefly's SF future meets Western frontierism "makes no sense" clearly never studied SF or genre-transcendent storytelling. Though I have liked most of Whedon's work, I would never claim he is a "flawless" storyteller - no one is, no one can be, and to expect it is patently stupid. The point is, television should be long past the point of commercial obsession as a measuring stick for quality: with the proliferation of channels tailored to specific interests and audiences, there is no reason for television not to be recognized as a viable experimental medium for telling stories to different audiences, whether they gain large audiences or not. The introduction of online sites such as Hulu and the rapidly growing addiction to DVRs and On Demand basically throws "viewing" numbers on a weekly basis out the window in terms of what they actually mean - to argue they are valid reasons for cancellation in this day and age is ludicrous. "Dollhouse" is clearly a more challenging concept than, say, the first season of "Buffy," and even as a "Buffy" fan, I would find it hard to argue that "Buffy" should have been renewed and not "Dollhouse." Like most television shows, 13 episodes is hardly enough time for a series to "find itself" creatively - X-Files during the 1st season, anyone? The argument should not and never should have been "Whedon is God" or "Whedon is Shit" - that kind of moronic arguing is not even worth paying attention to. The point is Whedon makes for a useful example of why network-run television pretty much sucks in terms of telling complex and challenging stories - the mindset is one of money and numbers rather than art and storytelling. Unless that shifts somehow, storytellers like Whedon will never be rewarded for their efforts.
May 11, 2009, 12:26 p.m. CST
...and is therefore about a million times more credible than anyone writing on this forum, including myself, try this article: http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/05/11/dollhouse-watch-pleased-to-meet-me/
May 11, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST
Because, you know, American can't get enough fart jokes and Scary-Movie imitations of actual pop culture...two seasons out of the box. Two seasons. Before. A. Single. Episode. Airs. Next up: a 47 season deal for Stargate: My Asshole. In which a military officer, a scientific geek, and a gorgeous somebody for eye-candy reasons end up in my toilet week after week.
May 11, 2009, 1:59 p.m. CST
May 11, 2009, 2:04 p.m. CST
anyway...to the haters: Joss Whedon is a lot like Aaron Sorkin in that I'd rather see any show by either of them than some shitty cop show procedural or reality thing. They both have their faults (Sorkin loves his soapbox, Whedon his cutesy dialogue) but anything by them has a certain charm and craft than most other dramas that get continually renewed. They both have distinctive styles, and although th subject matter can change, thats what makes people keep coming back to their work. <p> <p> And fanwank over. Ahh.
May 11, 2009, 11:40 p.m. CST
I was unsure about Dollhouse at the beginning, even as a Joss fan. But by the 2nd half of the season I was sold. And these last 2 episodes have been fantastic. Fox MUST renew this show. The last scenes with the Beck cover (and yes, I totally got the ESotSM reference) were just so well edited, with emotional moments from each of the characters, especially Topher (suck it, haters). I was a bit disappointed they went the more obvious route with Whiskey - I was hoping Saunders had been a doll but decided to stay after the contract was fulfilled. But what they did was still interesting - a self-aware active personality that still works within the imprint. That can be pretty interesting, too. And of course, Tudyk was beyond amazing. Hope to see more of him in the future. Nothing to do, but to renew. Nothing to do, but to renew. <p>wycklen, Jenkins is definitely THE man when it comes to cultural theory and pop culture. I've used the whole 'poaching' idea in my stuff a bunch of times. He was doing it back when Twin Peaks and Star Trek was the only tv being written about (or worth being written about) by scholars.
May 11, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST
It strikes me that Nielsen is unlikely to fairly represent viewership of a Joss Whedon show, as Joss fans are much more likely to see his programs through non-traditional channels. But this is probably becoming more and more of a problem with edgy programs (i.e. Reaper.) Because of the culture of technology, over time Nielsen figures will skew to programs favored by older viewers. If network decisions are based on them, we'll see many more Ghost Whisperers, and the major networks will become less and less relevant. I agree Dollhouse was a deeply flawed show, not nearly as good as Firefly. But the first season of Buffy was no great shakes either. Joss' genius is in character development over time. Next season would be better.
May 12, 2009, 3:45 a.m. CST
by The McPoyle Clan
I'm no hater; I was actually quite fond of some of his earlier work. But I do think it's fair to say that the perception is that he's a niche writer. But when his epitaph is written, will he be remembered more for his hits, or his misses?
May 12, 2009, 9:04 a.m. CST
in the words of Granny Weatherwax, "i aten't dead" <p> Eliza had this to say via Twitter. "DOLLHOUSE talk's are goin' on~ it'd be an extravaganza bonanza to return 4 rnd 2!" <p> So if they're still discussing a second season, Fox clearly didn't think a 1.1 was enough to cancel the show. <p> I think that spells the end for Terminator though
May 12, 2009, 9:34 a.m. CST
Please do not be false hope.
May 12, 2009, 9:46 a.m. CST
And it works on so many levels. Anyone who didn't give this show a chance at the beginning should watch the last 2 episodes and give it another shot. Then again, it may just depress you.
May 12, 2009, 10:03 a.m. CST
is actually a Jon Brion song, sung by Beck. But I'm just nitpicking. Wouldn't want to question "credibility". All I'm saying is when Barry Manilow covers Dylan, it's a "Dylan Song", not a "manilow song". It just bothers me when credibility is thrown around like silly putty in a room lined with newspaper and everyone YELPS with joy when they see newsprint on the putty. I prefer to hand out credibility on a case by case basis, because no-one ever lives up to it. More than anything it's just a license to take people down when we collectively feel like it's "time". Or it's a way to get away with saying inaccurate, idiotic nonsense when you have the "credibility" to get away with it. Maybe I'm just bitter this week.. a week in which the newspaper industry is trying to get paid for people who LINK to their content by "reforming" copyright. The things people do and say when they look down and realize their on fire. Amazing. Scream for a blanket? A fire extinguisher? No. Instead, open a window and yell at the caterer for not bringing the donuts on time. Makes.perfect.sense. end rant.<br> <br> Save Dollhouse.
May 12, 2009, 10:16 a.m. CST
fuck off fox. unless you renew Dollhouse. Then I'll watch your crappy shows, too.
May 12, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST
Dream Academy (the 'Life in a Northern Town' band from the 80s) covered the song on their 2nd album. I don't think I ever heard the original version. <p>I'm prepared for the worst, but I really think there is hope for renewal. If it happens I can't wait to get on here and gloat to all the haters.
May 12, 2009, 10:38 a.m. CST
as someone has already stated, it was done by the Korgis in the 80s (written by James Warren).
May 12, 2009, 10:54 a.m. CST
You're right. And I used to have Stackridge albums when I was a kid. Well, I guess I'm not credible either. lol. Thanks for the info.
May 12, 2009, 10:56 a.m. CST
and save dollhouse.
May 12, 2009, 12:32 p.m. CST
I thought 'Dollhouse' came back strong after a very poor start. That revised pilot stunk something fierce, IMO. I was really worried, but stuck with the show.<br><br> I've been a Whedon fan since Buff, but do not suffer from blind devotion. 'Dollhouse' is still a cool concept that needs some improvements to rival top quality shows on the dial. Some more action would be nice, although the Langton vs. Ballard fight was brutally epic! Strange to see them working side-by-side after that, still sporting the scars. Although, I found it funny when they went to question Alpha's original victim and she shows up with bigger scars then they had. I was wondering what a normal person would think when the "FBI" showed up at your door one morning, and they looked like Balboa and Creed after the 12th round! HAHA!<br><br> Overall, a good show that I hope comes back. And not in comic form as DrLektor so humourously suggested. Nice line my friend...<br><br> In the end, I thought "Victor" and "Sierra" were the coolest characters, with Enver Gjokaj really impressing me each week, especially with his Reed Diamond impression in "Briar Rose"!<br><br> Just a question for anybody who can set me right about something in the finale...why was Topher sad at the end of the ep, after he wiped Echo? Not sure if I missed something small, or big, and wondered why he seemed sad, especially after Echo noticed it too. Thanks in advance, and hope we're all back again for another season!
May 12, 2009, 2:06 p.m. CST
I think it has to do with the whole 'Whiskey' situation, and his culpability there. A big hint was Whiskey/Saunders questioning Topher about why he programmed her to hate him (a clue about how, underneath all the wild justification for what he does, there's perhaps a hint of self-loathing). Could also be about his finally realizing how he was responsible for Alpha and everything he did. Whatever it was, it played beautifully through the Beckettesque ritual dialogue - 'did I fall asleep' etc.
May 12, 2009, 9:02 p.m. CST
Which is a shame, because the show had really been going from strength to strength since Ep 6 (with a bit of a blip with Ep 7). It did have some really good stuff, like some of the ideas with 'Echo' meeting Caroline, but Alpha was a bit disappointing (but then it is almost a Joss trademark to do anticipation much better than reveal - happened countless times on Buffy, awful CGI giant snake anyone?). I also found his 'psycho' stuff to be pretty tame (with the possible exception of the fingers in the eyes moments) - if you really must go down the 'twitchy psycho' route (and I wish they hadn't), at least REALLY go down it. I still overall loved the series though and really hope it gets picked up. My girlfriend bumped into Olivia Williams today randomly (Adele DeWitt), but apparently the cast still don't know if there'll be a second season or not yet either... I think they're hoping for a change of slot (understandably).
May 12, 2009, 9:03 p.m. CST
I mean, seriously?! It seemed so unbelievably crowbarred in there and out of place.
May 12, 2009, 9:04 p.m. CST
(just to finish off that title). I guess someone had their patriot hat on a little too hard when writing that one.
May 13, 2009, 9:08 a.m. CST
Thanks for that. I wasn't sure if it was something obvious or if I overlooked a twist in that final scene w/ Echo.
May 13, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST
From James Hibbert @ THR Live Feed: <p> "Sources say fans shouldn't lose hope; that despite the show's recent ratings, Dollhouse is still alive. Whedon pitched the network on his vision for season two late last week. Discussions have commenced between Fox and the studio about how to make the show work financially. Not trying to spread false hope here, merely saying the finale rating has apparently not scared off the network and negotiations are ongoing." <p> So why is this good news? First, they let Whedon pitch in the first place. They could have easily, easily told him to go fuck himself, especially with those ratings. Second, no one pitches a show like Joss (Okay that was fanwanking at it's worst) but seriously, he comes prepared for these meetings. He brings in homework - not only treatment guidelines or plot premises but actual freaking scripts and the like. For a showrunner to this is an extremely rare thing. You may think this would just makes sense but it's true. <p> I still don't think it will get picked up. This has to make financial sense for Fox and no matter how good the pitch, if it's not a good business risk, they just won't do it. <p> But things like this, and it being an in-house production and the surge in DVD sales just gave it a slim chance at sticking around.
May 13, 2009, 11:41 a.m. CST
Great finale. LOVED IT. I want more!!!