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If There's A Sequel To TERMINATOR SALVATION, Here's What It's Probably Gonna Be About...
Merrick here...
TERMINATOR SALVATION is still a few weeks away from release, but McG & minions are already mulling the TERMINATOR film that'll follow it:
McG is already looking ahead to the next chapter in what the studio hopes will be another trilogy. "I strongly suspect the next movie is going to take place in a [pre-Judgment Day] 2011," McG reveals. "John Connor is going to travel back in time and he's going to have to galvanize the militaries of the world for an impending Skynet invasion. They've figured out time travel to the degree where they can send more than one naked entity. So you're going to have hunter killers and transports and harvesters and everything arriving in our time and Connor fighting back with conventional military warfare, which I think is going to be fucking awesome. I also think he's going to meet a scientist that's going to look a lot like present-day Robert Patrick [who famously played the T-1000 in Terminator 2], talking about stem-cell research and how we can all live as idealized, younger versions of ourselves."
..says McG in THIS INTERVIEW with Film Journal International.
I guess we're getting into alternate timelines and what not, as I sure don't recall this kind of idea being mentioned in previous TERMINATOR mythology (or did I miss something?)
Still, if approached like a GODZILLA movie...with future tech invading our time a la giant monsters...and modern tanks/jets rolling out to get crushed by it as our cities crumble? The Geek in me wouldn't mind at least a little of that...
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terminated.
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I will decide if I like this idea after seeing Terminator Salvation first.
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But this sequel premise sounds meh to me.
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Let's have umpteen sequels like 'Friday 13th' until no-one gives a shit anymore.Then we can get Rob Zombie to piss on the corpse.
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Let's see how good this next
Terminator flick is before we get to excited about convoluting the Terminator timeline even further with a sequel-prequel-whatever. -
but this idea is plain wrong. I thought the point was to break the old Time Travel cat and mouse formula. Not to mention the problems it will cause to the continuity.
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I think I already read this...the Frige told me earlier today.
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...to be as successful as Transformers and Star Trek.
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As in Summer Glau? And even better, as in naked on all fours Summer Glau? Goddamn if she ain't the hottest hunk of metal going. Too bad we won't get to see her weekly next fall in T: TSCC. The braintrust at Fox has already likely decided to pull the plug on one of the best shows on TV, hot on the heels of the likely success of this film too. Idiots. How about using the money you save on wrecking more marvel properties? Burn in hell, Fox.
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Actually, T:TSCC has delved deeply into the Alternate Timeline idea quite a bit. Hell, the season (hopefully not series) finale dropped the mother of all alternate Terminator timelines at the tail end.
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...bring on TERMINATOR 5 and 6 :)
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Nooooooooo!!!!
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or M. Bay
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May 05, 2009 10:57:52 AM CDT
Word is the dump i'm about to take is better than Transformers 2
by white goodman
I have no doubt.
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Despite all the warning signs, I was still eager to see Terminator Salvation. I liked that they were finally getting to the future war, and the trailer looks great. But this officially shows that McG and company simply don't get it. And that's what's gonna be doom for every movie they're involved with, including Terminator 4. Guess I'll have to be content that the first movie will be the only movie in the entire series that'll ever be worth a damn.
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All you 'know-it-alls' who think that T:S will fail, just remember this. YOU ARE the same people who vocalized their displeasure at the new BSG back in 2003. The VERY SAME PEOPLE who know eat Ron Moore's turds and claim that they 'always' loved BSG. Go hate on something more useful...like yourselves.
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It's ideas like that, that kept James Cameron from returning to this well. He finished the story in Judgment Day. McG isn't doing anything but cooking up gumbo and tossing everything his feeble little mind can concoct into the pot. The Skynet War is supposed to begin now, you don't need to introduce anymore time travelling into the Terminator universe. You don't need any alternate realities when the war itself is what's most interesting aspect of the entire franchise!
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Terminator and T2 are action sci-fi classics! Tow of the finest examples of the genre. I even have a soft spot for T3 just because of that lovely ending.
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Not MORE time travel for god's sake. Not EVERYTHING has to be explained, McG. You doof.
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...another trilogy padded and force-fed meh-biscuits with unnecassary expositional contrivances purely for the sake of fapping out whatever the latest "installment" just happens to be.
It's not as if there can't be spontaneity in the moment, or creative genius carved from extenuating circumstance, but what happened to this overall arc? To taking some ideas and exploring them to their fullest? What about this world during, or, even after Judgement Day?
Delaying a full-on Judgement Day-based film may make some kind of sense if you're on the production side of these things, but it feels a little cheap and lazy from my side. And more over, cowardly from a storytelling POV.
Yeah, so uh, take note, Hollywood. I am mildy, momentarily peeved. You have been warned. -
In any case, I'm happy that they're at least trying out new things with this franchise rather than simply remaking the original over and over again... seriously, that was my biggest problem with T3, that story had already been done twice before.
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Alien I just wanted to point out that SCC is not considered cannon to the movie universe. Whatever is happening there is not supposed to indicate what will or will not happen in the movies. That said I really like the show and pray for a miracle that Fox will bring it back. If they end on that season ending bombshell I will be pissed.
Bill, sorry that people are hating on this movie, but they have reason. McG has not done a good action flick yet. I did enjoy We Are Marshall so I am willing to give him a chance, but I am pessimistic about the movie. The PG-13 alone scares me, but the transformer type robots really scare me. I hope I am proven wrong and even as a PG-13 McG flick this blows me away. On an aside I don't think anyone thinks this movie will fail, it will make BIG money. Just because it makes big bucks though doesn't mean it's a good movie.
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That would be original.
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Can we NOT WIN in the future? Cause fucking with the space time continuum doesn't seem to be helping.
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I think this sounds like it could be a bit conventional and dull going back to "present" day again.
I had assumed the new trilogy would all be future wars based, essentially following the story Reese laid out in Terminator 1, with incinerators running night and day wiping out mankind, with John Connor then rising up and defeating Skynet. Essentially the last frames of the final movie should be Connor sending Reese and the re-programmed T-800 back... -
he also mentions getting Linda Hamilton back to meet her older-from-the-future son.
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but I think it's too similar to The Terminator, overly preachy, and its theme of "no fate" is contradictory to the rules set forth in the first movie. But yeah, I was too harsh. I don't HATE Terminator 2. However, Terminator 3 shat all over the first movie, and McG is clearly just going to continue that trend.
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You wrote: YOU ARE the same people who vocalized their displeasure at the new BSG back in 2003. The VERY SAME PEOPLE who know eat Ron Moore's turds and claim that they 'always' loved BSG.
What are you even talking about? How would you know if these are the same people who made comments in 2003? You're talking out your ass. -
It's not too late. As long as the body is still fresh, they could take Bill Hicks advice, and have him as a stunt man.
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Is being taken out of the franchise? I mean...I think the only reason T:S excites us is because we're finally getting to the war with skynet in the future. We will finally SEE why John Connor is a big deal. Its the only reason I am excited about this film. And they are going to take the sequel and return to the "terminator goes back to stop the future" bullshit? Give me a break.
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May 05, 2009 11:09:49 AM CDT
Remember when the Terminator timeline was nice and simple?
by mr nicholas
All this just makes my head spin.
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I expect nothing less from McG
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Having John Connor send back his own daddy to impregnate his mom was simple? lol. I don't think so.
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Dude. I'm actually excited for Salvation but every time you open your mouth it takes it down a notch. Also, this idea is fucking terrible. YOU'RE IN THE FUTURE. I know you want to copy Cameron and have a third film taking place in 2029 and Reese being sent back to 1984 so take the second step in getting their. Have the second film be about SkyNet's evolution. They still haven't recovered enough that they can pump the T-800 out early but they're developed plasma weapons and are upgrading their overall machines. Let Reese develop in the second film. Have the TDE turn turns blue like Cameron.
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Movie 1: The movie opens with John Conner leaving the bunker and life in a post-Judgment Day world begins. He encounters the survivors and the Skynet threat and builds his army.
Movie 2: The Skynet army crushes the human opposition and John Conner's knowledge of Skynet & Terminators will serve as mankind's salvation
Movie 3: Skynet and John's army have a final battle and the finale could focus on the state of the world in the aftermath of an extinction-level event.
I don't know what the final product will be like but I doubt it will touch on the themes that Cameron introduced and I'm more interested in that then seeing a giant Transformer tear the roof of a building. -
is where the Terminator story ended. Everything else is a cynical cashgrab.
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But they're always looking to dumb down.
The "future" is too complicated a concept for the desired demographic.
Let's put John Connor in a shopping mall where he can scavenge weapons at a hardware store. Yeah, that'll be cheap to make. Don't forget: PG it. -
All they would have to do is after Sarah killed the Terminator is go back and get back the remains including the chip and it would be over. Or kill Miles Dyson when he was a kid. Or help Sarah to blow up Cyberdyne in her attempt before she was institutionalized. Why go right before Judgement Day?
Sorry I have hopes for Terminator: Salvation, but the idea for T5 sounds hokey. -
I had thought/hoped that a trilogy story had been already worked out before Salvation was even made. There's just something about doing trilogies on the fly that doesn't work/sit well. Remember how they fucked up The Matrix? Remember how they fucked up the Naughty Island Babes Trilogy by adding all the MFM scenes? FFM was enough. It fit the plot. The most dangerous thing about doing a trilogy in piecemeal is that somewhere in the middle of it you get a "good" idea that just doesn't fit the trilogy, and sometimes even contradicts earlier story.
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is that nothing in Salvation is going to matter because John is going to jaunt back in time anyway and redo the future, because this one was like way too hard to fix by actually fighting a war like he's fucking supposed to do. Just Time Travel again and again till you get it right, why the hell not.
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A story around how they get Kyle to go back. The way it sounded in the first movie (although never fully explained) that the human rebellion may have attacked a Skynet facility to send Kyle back with Skynet's time machine. That mission might make a better movie than what McG is proposing which kinda trivializes the who franchise in my eyes.
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Ahhhnuld can come back from the future as a Terminator and fight himself fighting a Predator!
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May 05, 2009 11:22:43 AM CDT
Sounds cool, maybe you can review a draft & kill it
by regicidal_maniac
I rest now.
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They can't go back to 1984 and retrieve the chip because they weren't there in 1984. You can't have them go back to 1984 because that'd violate events in The Terminator. Similarly, they can't kill Mile Dyson when he was a kid, because Miles Dyson wasn't killed when he was a kid. The single most damaging thing that T3 did was have a Terminator go back in time and ACTUALLY KILL ITS TARGET. That can't happen, not within the conceptual universe set forth in the first movie. If a Terminator (or anyone, for that matter) manages to go back in time and kill its target, then how the fuck did that target end up on a list of "people to kill"? Any movie in the series that violates these rules has fucked up and has failed to get the point.
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I was worried about the PG-13 rating for Salvation but two things have me convinced it won’t be a problem: 1) The footage looks dark, nasty and generally fantastic and (2 films like the Dark Knight and more recently Taken prove that you can make a seriously violent and mature pg-13 flick. Nothing about the preview looks kiddy or family friendly (that scene where the captured Terminator insists he’s human and then looks down and sees his mechanical innards is downright chilling) so I’m going in with high expectations. As to this potential sequel, I agree that time travel is played out but if handled correctly it could be awesome. I mean, if we are going to shit on the time travel concept then I assume that means the upcoming Star Trek, which from what I understand uses the concept liberally, should also be derided.
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take some lettuce, tomatoe, kale, peppers, onions and fling them around a little or ..."TOSS SALAD"
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Logical step up from T1's concept a'la Aliens. I'm glad they changing it up from the simple Future War of Salvation. We don't need 3 of those, like we didn't need 3 "Future machine comes to kill the Connors" movie. Was there an "Invasion from the future" movie before?
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aka robots jumping in the air and doing corkscrew spins in slow motion. I'll still go see it simply for the effects, but Bay is on crack if he thinks Transformers 1 & 2 are quality movies beyond the explosions and aformationed slow-mo corkscrew spins. That man is so shallow and empty inside that even when he for once has a script with depth and gravity, aka the Island, he still turns it into a 2-hour Lexus commercial.
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Anyone else hear this yet? I hope its not true.
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May 05, 2009 11:27:21 AM CDT
"Remember when the Terminator timeline was nice and simple?"
by david cloverfield
No, it was mess from the start. That's kind of the point.
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I have no idea where this is going now. This is totally different from what the planned story arc was. While this does sound kind of cool, it seems like they are losing focus...
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.the future invading us is so fucked up it might actually work.Of course it would take BALE to save the world if this ever happened so we are in luck.The idea has balls though - I'll have to see Salvation before I know if McG can give it legs
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This sounds like salvation has a stupid ending. It even has the requisite stupid prequel idea where everything is connected anakin style. Which means well find out a teenage john Connor created skynet and Sarah Connors sister dated miles dyson I still think the killer killer ending to salvation would be a defeated dying john Connor willingly becoming cyborg in order to continue the fight.
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I'm going to see Salvation
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try to figure out if this premise makes any more sense than it does right now.
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May 05, 2009 11:32:41 AM CDT
So what happens to the John Connor that lives in 2011?
by my_blue_penis
Does he just hide somewhere?
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Can prevent a young john Connor from unleashing skynet via hiverboard chase only to bring hunter killers to the old west!
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Once you realize that Kyle is John's dad, the whole chicken and the egg thing starts up.
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May 05, 2009 11:34:31 AM CDT
Hey..you hire shit you get shit..but go on likeing McG
by glory_fades_immaxfischer
losers
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I guess we'll have to wait and see after T:S though it doesn't sound good at the moment.
Has Hollywood forgotton the power of leaving a bit of mystery and letting the audience think for themselves. Maybe they don't want us to think at all...Maybe Hollywood is a cover for Skynet.
There's another plot for you McG...free of charge buddy. -
and god bless you dom, rest in peace
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May 05, 2009 11:40:10 AM CDT
Harry you gotta post this for the Dom Deloiuise tribute.
by orionsangels
http://tinyurl.com/dnjhnl
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May 05, 2009 11:40:35 AM CDT
What purpose would it serve for Skynet to invade the past?
by darkartist
Skynet conquered humanity and rules the planet, right? What would it gain from wiping out us in 1980-something that it didn't gain from kicking our ass in later centuries? If it seeks to dominate a world without nuclear winter, then why is that important? Skynet wants to run off solar energy or some shit? Maybe I'm stupid but I don't get it. Sounds retarded.
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This is how McG and Bale will repay us for our leniency?! Nay, I say. Keep it in the future or step down.
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You almost had me convinced.
Then I remembered who's directing it.
Not saying that McG isn't capable of giving us what we REALLY want.
It's more of a matter of us A) not getting what the STUDIO really wants, and B) not getting the dark version of "Charlie's Angels".
According to Fandango, the theatrical cut is 130 min. -- a plus instead of being cut to 90-110 min., which normally would allow for that additional showing per theater per day to in increase sales at the risk of compromising quality.
But it's still PG-13, which means I can probably wait for the "Unrated" Blu-ray/DVD release. -
May 05, 2009 11:41:43 AM CDT
Any ideas for sequels before the next film has released...
by rbatty024
is obviously going to be completely different than what shows up on screen. Sounds stupid, though.
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I think you are confusing the Lost continuum with the Terminator continuum. The mantra of the Terminator movies were always "The Future Is Not Set, There Is No Fate But What We Make For Ourselves". The trailers for Terminator: Salvation seem to back up that McG is living by that mantra because John Connor in the voiceover says that "This is not the war my mother told me about and I don't know if we can win this war."
In fact, James Cameron's original ending in T2 had the events of that movie actually causing Judgement Day or the rise of Skynet to never happen. -
To make the third part a desperate last ditch attemmpt by the humans to travel back in time to stop the nuclear war with john Connor now a terminator going to the past to create a fugue he wants. This stupid idea sounds like mcg wanting to shoot the final third of transformers.
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Rest in Peace you funny bastard
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Basically T:TSCC explains why, ultimately, the idea of changing the past is flawed. There are seperate timelines, and a person from timeline A going back in time and changing the timeline so it's now timeline B will not make the dude from timeline A vanish. It just means he came from a timeline that is no longer linked to the new timeline he has created. The Reese + Jessi storyline illustrated this quite well: Reese never knew about that human traitor, because in timeline he didn't exist. It was only due to Reese mucking with the timestream that the traitor did exist, which caused him to torture an alternate future Reese and which made Jessi want to kill him. It sounds complicated, but the simplest way to describe it would be a switching train track. If I take a train from a switched track, travel onto a main track, then the track is switched, the original track I came from still exists, but I have no way of getting back to it because the track we must follow now leads to a new track.
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I assumed this was a joke, but all the film sites are running this story.
Terminator 3 is likely better than TF 2 will be. -
This sort of shit fills me with forboding for the Salvation movie.
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Like its going to make bank. Only full retards and 8 year olds are gonna see it anyway. Most people will just skip it and go to torrents. Its not like the world needs another Terminator movie is it. This is 95% confirmed a 2009 Speed Racer from WB!!!!!
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That's the only reason it invented Time Travel. Humanities fate is to create Skynet and suffer the consequences, and Skynet's fate is to suffer a defeat from Connor's forces. That's the only constant that they seem unable to change even with Time Travel.
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Given that we have a vote of no confidence in mcg. If salvation is good I'm crediting the script. Mcg keeps talking like snyder about watchmen. "I like the philosophy part". but no substantiave dialog about free will and quantum mechanics. Though I'll give snyder he's a lot smarter. He'll I'd rather see him do the next terminator than mcg. I seriously wish WB would let Duncan Jones of Moon have a shot.
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so WTF man? Like why do it? I mean if Judgement day was 1997 as T2 said it was what is the world like in 2011 and more importantly why can't we stick in the future dammit!
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I was hoping it was gonna be about bunnies.
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All the goodwill McG had earned from me based on the latest tv spots and trailers was just wasted as soon as that moron opened his fucking mouth. Way to go, asshat.
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would be to have a scenario that shows that the original John Connor was NOT Kyle Reese's son, just a guy that rose to the task and helped defeat the original Skynet. When Kyle Reese came back and changed the timeline by essentially making a different John Connor, co-incidentally an even stronger and more prepared John Connor. Which ends up being pretty necessary because Skynet's acts of sending itself back into the past also have the effect of making itself even stronger. So basically you have an original timeline featuring more normal John Connor vs the original, regular Skynet, and the time travel replaces that with a tougher, more prepared John Connor vs a more advanced Skynet. It fixes the Paradox, and if I don't say so myself, the idea kind of kicks ass.
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Can't we just concentrate on one freaking movie at a time?!
http://drivein77.typepad.com/drivein77/
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May 05, 2009 11:57:10 AM CDT
"Comedic Actor and Cookbook Author Dom Deluise Dies at 75"
by sifodyasjr.
now there's a headline!
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By having time travel in the mix you could theoretically make Terminator movies forever...or until the public get piss bored of the franchise.
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he could technically have original timeline Connor fighting alongside the Reese-spawned Connor. How fucking awesome would it be if the final 'come with me if you want to live' came from Future John Connor himself? I'm not a fussy man McG, 10g and the idea's yours. Oh, and one of those glowy-eye terminator masks. Yeah.
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No worries here about altering timelines in Terminator. Messing with timelines is what the series is all about, if I remember correctly. Time is very flexible in this series.
But first let's see what McG has in store for us this time around. I'm open minded. Terminator is no holy grail for me. -
Like they can't be fucked going to the trouble and expense of creating a post apocalyptic future world again so they come up with some contrived way to set the saga in present day. And shoe horning Robert Patrick into it seems exactly that - shoe horning someone into it unnecessarily.
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Why is McG now responsible for Terminator movies. I feel sick just thinking about this sequel. And I'm not a hater.
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YES!AWESOME!TIME TRAVEL!HEY KOOL-AID!POW RIGHTnTHE KISSER!douche
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nor any future sequels will be the "future terminator war movie" we've imagined in our head as kids. I would appreciate, if T5 didn't even try to be that.
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Going from working with Nolan to McG. No wonder he was so on edge.
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But I don't hate that idea. It actually sounds fairly intriguing and a decent place to take the story. Who says they can't send things back to a different time and try to stop it then? I dig it. Surprisingly.
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May 05, 2009 12:07:39 PM CDT
I'm starting to believe Skynet is no more intelligent than a sel
by darkartist
Thanks David Cloverfield but what kind of supreme intelligence allows itself to continually employ a tactic that has failed with every attempt? Maybe Skynet should use time travel to infiltrate our society and destroy it through politics like the Bush administration instead of seeking the immediate gratification of nuclear war. If McG wanted to create something special he'd focus on Skynet's programming evolving beyond crushing humanity with robot soldiers and time travel.
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this "news" broke on april 27th, and, over the last EIGHT DAYS, has already been reported by oh, EVERY OTHER FUCKUNG MOVIE NEWS SITE ON THE ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET!
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I disagree. The point of The Terminator was exactly the OPPOSITE. For all that anyone wants to talk about Kyle Reese's comments regarding "no fate" and "a possible future from your point of view", youy have to take that in the context of the character. Reese also says "I don't know, I'm not a tech guy". He has absolutely no reason to know how the hell the time continuum works. And the entire "no fate" theme is completely and utterly reversed by the picture of Sarah Connor. Sarah Connor ends up in the desert driving to Mexico, and THAT is when the picture was taken. The consequences of this are extremely important, arguably the most important theme in the movie. Sarah Connor would not have been there to have the picture taken if Reese and The Terminator had not gone back in time. The picture shows that the future is preceding on a path directly towards the EXACT same future from which Kyle Reese and The Terminator came. Everything is a loop. No one travelling back in time can "change" ANYTHING, because any "changes" that occur will have ALREADY been a part of the past leading towards this future. Moreover, this means that even during the course of the original movie (and by extension, Terminator 2), NOBODY had ANY choice over their own actions. The Terminator outlines a universe in which free will simply does not exist. It's not even a matter of whether or not there is or isn't fate, the implication is that fate IS ALL THERE IS. No choice, no personal power to affect anything. Just fate being a big mindless machine with every entity merely being gears. Could Sarah Connor have aborted John Connor? No, because in this world the future IS the past. The future war has ALREADY HAPPENED as evidenced by the existence of John Connor and The Terminator. And just as The Terminator could not possibly have killed Sarah Connor, John Connor can not possibly lose the war. Everything that John Connor does has already been decided. John Connor is just as powerless as everyone else, he only does what fate has already decided that he must do what he will do/has done. Now of course, the characters do not have to be AWARE of this. John Connor can certainly TRY to stop Judgement Day by destroying the remains ofd the first Terminator. But he must FAIL in stopping Judgement Day, because everything he does HAS ALREADY HAPPENED and leads inexorably back to his past. If John Connor destroys the remains of the first Terminator, it doesn't matter. That was ALREADY part of the historical background of the future from which Kyle Reese came. THAT'S the necessary consequence of The Terminator, and nothing that anyone does or says in any of the sequels changes that. Any changes made to this theme are simply shitting on the original classic.
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i think a few more tber's need to post that bit of info in case someone's missed itdumb shits! you know AICN isn't always first to post that kind of news! stop shoving it down everybodys throat! "hey Harry, Dom is dead!" Really, wow, I was wondering why a dozen of you motherfuckers keep posting that.Good job YOU broke the news FIRST!
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Or does this plot sounds like a giant Michael Bay explosion fest? I mean, you have lots of giant robots rampaging in cities. And you have militaries mobilizing against some impending robotic threat. Fighting (including massive slo-mo explosions and melodramatic screaming) ensues. How is this NOT a standard Michael Bay-esque venture?
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The end.
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PG-13 attempt on R rated source material.
Really stupid sounding premise.
A beloved actor from a vastly superior prior movie makes appearance.
Hilarity insues. -
There's no getting around that. Even if we allow that alternate timelines can exist, that doesn't change the fact that time as depicted in the timeline of the first movie IS a circular loop controlled by fate.
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And how the first movie was awesome...the second movie was decent though a bit weird that it could happen as it did...then the third film obliterated the storyline completely...then they did the series which ignored the timeline of the movies simply because both MacLeods were alive during periods in which only Connor should have been alive....then they made the 4th movie where he dies meaning that he couldn't possibly have won the prize in the first film...negating the storyline completely....yeah...this Terminator crap is starting to sound like that. That's why if you're going to set an end of the world scenario, you do it farther in the future so sequels don't have to change dates to appear relevant.
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I thought he died in the nineties.
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McG u dick, being a Terminator fan you are definetly going to rape my childhood if you go with that dumbass story line!!! Listen to the fans keep the movies in the future and stick to directing and not fucking script writing!!!!!
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I agree. Actually, that was the only reason I've enjoyed Sarah Connor Chronicles - the writers seemed to realize that Skynet behaves like a fucking moron, trying the same thing again and again, so they created this whole temporal Guerilla war, with dozens of resistance fighters, evolving AIs with different goals, and lots of mysteries surrounding Skynet. That show missed a lot of opportunities, but they saw the problems the franchise has even at T-2.
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Sounds like another way for Hollywood to smear its agendas in peoples' faces. I don't want to see a Terminator movie with a PSA about stem cell research. Spare me. And he better keep it in line with the rest of the series.
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At a few other sites.
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I'm amazed that people are getting this upset about this. These movies have never, EVER been consistent. And they were fucked up - by Cameron - long before T3 and Salvation. There is absolutely no way they could ever have defeated Skynet before Judgement Day, because it already happened. But, it doesn't matter, because the whole fucking thing already fell apart the minute Cameron said Reese was John's dad. Let's just face it - Cameron didn't put any thought into the time travel element. He just wanted to make some kick-ass sci-fi action movies with robots from the future, and that's all we can expect from them.
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Just have Terminators fighting Connor in the future. THAT IS WHAT WE WANT!
Fuck. -
Not the least of which Reese going back in time to have been John's father. Newsflash - the son can't exist before the father even does.
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I don't recall anything CLEARLY being changed during T2. There is certainly the whole subplot where the characters TRY to prevent Judgement Day, and the subplot annoyed the hell out of me. But it's certainly conceivable that John and Sarah Connor's thinking that they stopped Judgement Day was merely an illusion. I don't recall T2 ever explicitly saying that they ever managed to change the future.
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Major bummer!!!! Who will save us from poorly driven blinged up ambulances and crappy toupe's now? RIP peace Dom.
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I've never watched the Sarah Conner Chronicles. Those ideas you wrote about are intriguing. I might check it out now for a worthy robot fix since BSG is done and Salvation will be garbage.
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Yes, but it's a circular loop with no entry point, and it requires a belief that fate is not only a supernatural, guiding purposeful force, it requires a belief that it actually decided to create a being that would not have occurred naturally to fight the fight. Guiding is one thing, flat out cheating and saying 'you can't fix this problem yourself? poof, I'll create a guy that can solve it.' is another. My idea doesn't remove fate from the equation, it just makes it so that fate gets to remain an ambiguous thing, where we're never sure if what happened was guided, or simply happened because it could have only occurred that way. The current Paradox removes that ambiguity, because there is no initial circumstance prior the timeloop that would have caused this guy to be fathered by someone from the future. IE he initially never would have existed to be able to send back Kyle Reese in the first place.
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You're getting it with Salvation. You want to get it twice?
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I almost thought he was being sarcastic as he described that. I don't think that can be real. What director lays out his plans for a sequel in detail before the next movie is even out? Please, if this is real, someone stop this TERRIBLE idea. It doesn't make sense on any level, or jive with the logic that's been set up through all the previous movies. Ugh.
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and stay away from the drugs. Then maybe he'd still have a career.
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As TheSeeker7 just pointed out, Cameron's first Terminator, as awesome as it may be, was based entirely around one enormous plot hole.
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Don't take my word for SSC. For example I'm very much looking forward to Salvation, and I like McG (enjoyed the hell out of the stupid ass Charlie's Angels movies) so my taste may not be a good indicator of what you'll enjoy. :)
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Again your theory is shot since James Cameron had the original ending of T2 end with an old Sarah in a world where Judgement Day never happened talking about how they did in fact change their fates. The only reason that ending was cut was because the studio wanted an open ending for more movies. Unless Kyle was a guy who made up Judgement Day in his head and sent back three Terminators on his own, at least by the end of T2 Cameron did believe that Sarah and John had control of their own fates and did avoid Judgement Day. Now you can make your arguments about the first movie since sending Kyle and the Terminator created John Connor.
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May 05, 2009 12:36:26 PM CDT
What would be the point of sending a hunter killer back...
by retroactive
When SkyNet can just launch a global nuclear war instead? It's that a little more efficient? Stay outta the past. Maybe he's just screwing with us, but this worries me into thinking McG's ultimate plan is to rewrite the series completely. Ugh.
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It's more like a simple utilization of the old-as-hell "grandfather paradox" scenario. Realistically, ALL time travel movies have to deal with this issue one way or the other. If you go back in time, and manage to interact with ANYONE in the past, there are really only two ways to reason around that. Either the past can be changed, or it can't. If the past CAN be changed, that allows for causality to become unravelled. If the past CAN'T be changed, then the necessary consequence is that the time traveller WAS ALWAYS THERE. That's only a plothole in the sense that time travel itself is a plothole. And once you accept that in the movie's universe it's possible to go back in time, the "I'm my own dad" scenario is perfectly acceptable. No, time as shown in The Terminator is fine. The only real "plothole" is the utilization of time travel at all. And that's not really a plothole either, as it's the basic premise of the entire movie. The Terminator used time travel as part of its setting, and like all time travel movies it set forth the rules of time travel within that world. The annoying thing is just how sequels blatantly ignore/change those rules simply for the sake of allowing another sequel. I'm fine with Back to the Future time travel rules as well...within the world of the Back to the Future movies. If Back to the Future 2 had suddenly gone to using The Terminator time travel rules, I'd be equally as annoyed. Do time travel however you want to, just keep the rules consistent within the the world already laid out in previous installments.
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I typically hate when talkbackers bitch about a movie before it comes out but when it comes to McG you don't have to be a psychic to predict some suck. Just listen to the bullshit that has spewed from MCG since pre-production and tell me he's not hammering nails into the Terminator's coffin. I challenge anyone to find one cool, smart or original idea McG will bring to the franchise.
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...that about sums it all up. AMEN!
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Sure, you may be right if you accept only the first Terminator movie and not even the second one. But the second movie puts it clearly that the future is in fact NOT set. And that was a Cameron film after all. So what's the point in putting your fingers in your ears and stubbornly insisting that the future is meant to be "set" in the Terminator franchise when the second film in the series, filmed by it's creator, specifically states that you're wrong?
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If Cameron's idea really is that they prevented Judgement Day from happening, that just goes to show that he missed the point of the first movie as well. And if even James Cameron doesn't understand his own creation, then there's probably no hope of ANYONE ever making a worthy sequel. However, having said that, it doesn't matter how Cameron INTENDED the movie to end. It wasn't in the movie, so fuck him. I can interpret a work of art with the artist holding my hand and walking me through it, and Terminator 2 DOESN'T definitively establish that Judgement Day was prevented.
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I'll give him one. finding an actor who's believable as a leader of man against machines.
Does anyone honestly believe that Nick Stahl or Edward Furlong even with their combined powers, could fight their way out of a wet paper bag?!! -
We definitely have different tastes because I couldn't get past the first ten minutes of Full Throttle or whatever the fuck they called that United Colors of Benetton commercial. You gotta tell me what you liked about Charlie's Angels because I wanted to strangle Cameron Diaz every minute she wasn't shaking her ass
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I remember reading that Cameron always contended there were no plot holes created by the time travel. He said everythign was straight forward. Kyle is John's dad, and he always was. But since that generates the circular logic, it was likely just a case of Cameron being unable to admit he created a plot hole.
I also remember someone trying to tie up the plot holes via the "Train Track" alternate universe theory: John's original father was not Kyle. John beats SkyNet. SkyNet sends a T-800 back and then Kyle becomes John's father in a new timeline. Every subsequent time travel occurence generates a new timeline. It's the only logical way to explain the plot holes.
And remember that SkyNet is the one who keeps trying to use time travel to win. Kyle said it before, and it's held true all along: the humans had already won. They keep winning no matter what SkyNet tries. -
I think it must've been very shortly after I saw T1 in its entirety (which I actually saw after T2), I had it all clearly figured out, but I'd probably need to review T1 to remember it all again, what exactly the plothole(s) was. Something about the arm being left back... and the 80's people studying of that is what leads to the creation of Skynet... but hello, in the future from which the first evil Arnold traveled, skynet obviously already existed, so it kinda negates the logic of the whole movie...
err, *something* like that. It's still fuzzy. But yea, I just remember thinking at the time I had it down iron clad that it would've been impossible. -
Whenever you as a storyteller are using time travel as a significant device in your tale, invariably it's virtually impossible to do so WITHOUT you creating at least one major plothole. Just the nature of the beast. I suppose the idea is just to minimize them and have as little suspension of disbelief required as possible.
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I agree that Bale was the only smart choice about another Terminator sequel but for all his on-screen charisma, even Bruce Wayne can't stop a grenade from exploding if the pin is missing.
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Bale obviously can time travel better than the Amateurs in T1- T3 (although T3 was near professional levels with the bitch-nanocannon-morph bullshit).
Professioanlly time traveling means you can bring anything through, anywhere, even if it means raining down Wii's on Dinosaurs just for fun, or going back in time and stopping Jesus from being killed and inserting Bale in his place thus making Bale our Lord and Saviour.
Thats professional, bitches. -
Use Robert Patrick as a t1000 or don't do it at all. And I am not even going to pretend i understand what he's talking about anyway. I thought the last piece of shit Terminator movie made it clear that time travel isn't going to change anything.
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is that it requires a potential infinite number of DIFFERENT 1984s. Now...how does the Terminator know to WHICH 1984 it travels? Furthermore, why would any given 1984 bear ANY resemblance to any other? This actually makes it equally likely that Skynet could accidentally PREVENT its creation in a universe in which it would have otherwise existed. Suppose that in a hypothetical 1984 robotics had become significantly more advanced than in the 1984 of the first movie. Can you imagine the extent to which robotics and AI would be hindered if the major news channels started showing footage of a killer robot from the future shooting up shopping malls and police stations? That's to say nothing of The Terminator and Kyle Reese going back to a 1984 in which Sarah Connor is a drug addict and had died 2 months earlier from a heroin overdose. I personally just find the alternate timelines theory to be too much of a plot contrivance, since it requires a potentially infinite number of different worlds to be EXACTLY THE SAME for absolutely no discernible reason.
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Hopefully Salvation is still badass though.
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My hope is that the film manages to navigate through the clusterfuck meachine that is Hollywood. The footage continues to look very good so that's what fuels my hope.
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We've been waiting decades to get to "the future" and finally this movie is supposed to take us there, so this idea sounds like a step back.
Also, why does everything need to be a trilogy? Just wrap it up and move on so we can open floodgates of money for another franchise. Hopefully one that isn't based on crap cartoons and toys from our collective youth. -
Lol, is JC....JC?
Maybe in a last ditch effort, Connor sends himself back to the beginning of humanity to preach peace and love, in the hopes that we never develop the nukes that eventually wipe us out, Skynet has no way of killing us without WMD's around. -
McG can ruminate all he wants about the plot for movies 2 & 3.
The reality is that BALE has standards. HIGH FUCKING STANDARDS.
He refused to do TERMINATOR: SALVATION unless the script worked when read on a bare stage with no props or fx.
He's also rumoured to have spent four hours a day after photography with McG in the editing suite.
The man's a professional and quality control is his watchword.
If he gets the whiff that film 2 is going to be dumb nonsense then he will not participate - simple as that. And no Bale, no movie. -
In the original, while being grilled by the police about time travel and showing them proof, Kyle explains that only organic material can go through the time portal. So an inch of synthetic skin allows an 800 pound metallic skeleton to go through? If that's the case, why doesn't Skynet wrap weapons up in synthetic flesh so they can accopmany the terminators? Why not wrap a plasma rifle up in some steaks for Kyle? My point is that the logic of this franchise has never been it's strongest asset.
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jesus. makes sense.... :)
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May 05, 2009 1:08:27 PM CDT
The 6th movie will have a HK clip the wing of Flight 815...
by turketron_2
THIS WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!
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It was a movie, where Demi Moore could just take off in a flying suit at the end of the movie, and nobody even blinked. It had George McFly as a crazy assasing, who's theme song is "Smack my bitch up". The cinematography was awesome, yeah, every single scene had a reference to a classic scene from other movies, but in a subtle way, not like Epic Movie for example. It was self referential and meta textual but in a good way (hey, if we talk empowerment, I'll take Demi Moore executing Bruce Willis any day). The action scenes were insanely over the top (no kidding) in the same way Vin Diesel's action sequences are (see XXX), but instead of "How badass this guy is" it had this "yeah, why is it more ridiculous when Cameron Diaz is doing it? it's equally impossible." feel to it. I actually don't understand the hate for it. It's the opposite of Michael Bay's direction, the action scenes have geography, you can tell what's going on. It was the BIG DUMB POPCORN MOVIE. It's everything Bad Boys isn't for example. I welcome a movie not being dark-broody-serious. It was almost like an light hearted adventure film from the 60's, but with modern technology and sensibilities. It didn't try to say anything more than "Hot babes kick ass!". And I love it to bits for it. Read Vern's review, he can say it a lot better than I can.
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It's because they weren't professional enough. Bale will discover how to show the Amatuers how to use the equipment properly, and send Optimus Prime back to the Middle Ages.
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Your T1 time travel model is EXACTLY how I have always imagined it working if it ever was a reality. If time travel is ever invented, where the hell is everybody?But it was T2 that fucked with that. Not Mostow. Not McG. If I could go back I'd stop watching after T1
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I was actually under the impression that only LIVING organic tissue could go through time. Hence why Kyle Reese has to go back naked. If any old organic material would work, you'd think that Kyle Reese would at least have brought back some cotton underpants or something. Thing is, if only LIVING organic material can go through, then shouldn't Kyle Reese be bald and in great pain after having just had his fingernails and toenails ripped from his feet and hands?
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Does anybody else think that Terminator Salvation would have been better if they dropped the whole John Connor storyline? You still have Bale of course, the trailer would simply change to have Bale saying over the radio "This is Christian Bale, the leader of the resistance, and we are going to FIGHT BACK!" I would much rather follow Christian Bale into battle rather than the whiny John Connor.
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Time travel needs fine tuning on the other side. Skynet can calculate better, that's why it has no problems sending back organic AND inorganic material. The resistance is not quite there yet.
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.. because Summer Glau is fit. And the John Henry stuff was brilliant as well.
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Captain Kaos is dead.
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The point you made about Demi Moore in a flying suit was funnier and more entertaining than anything I've seen McG do in his career. I'm convinced I got more out of your description than I'd get watching the scene for myself. I dig big dumb popcorn movies too, and maybe I'm too old, but I remember them being made better in the 80s and 90s than these days. THE HIDDEN, I COME IN PEACE, NAKED KILLER
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The point you made about Demi Moore in a flying suit was funnier and more entertaining than anything I've seen McG do in his career. I'm convinced I got more out of your description than I'd get watching the scene for myself. I dig big dumb popcorn movies too, and maybe I'm too old, but I remember them being made better in the 80s and 90s than these days. THE HIDDEN, I COME IN PEACE, NAKED KILLER
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SkyNet was supposed to be on the verge of collapse in 2029 when they sent the T-800 back and the resistance sent Reese. It was a big enough stretch that they had time to send the T-1000 and another T-800 but now Connor is traveling back as well? Possibly before 2029? And why the fuck would he travel to 2011? And what the fuck is with HKs going back? It sounds like they're going to have fucking jumper devices instead of TDE.
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he jacked off multiple times per day by looking out his window at Lucy-Lui and Cameron Diaz trailers while working on Charlies Angels.And also that his naked mom fed he and his buddies lots of pot while she and her girlfriends has naked Aura readings.
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I remember dumb movies from the past 20 years being more creative and violent than all this PG13 rated bollocks. Have you ever seen Full Contact with Chow Yun Fat? That's the kind of shit I can get excited watching. I'm not above watching exploitative material but Charlie's Angels was so lifeless and creatively bankrupt.
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May 05, 2009 1:30:02 PM CDT
I think I'll reserve judgement on a sequal after I watch T:S.
by il_deuce
I really have high hopes for Terminator: Salvation. Mainly because I know that if anyone can bring the level of bad-assery and PROFESSIONALISM of this serious back to where it should be... it's Lord Bale.
Seriously though... Bale wouldn't make a bad flick. (Newsies doesn't count. They made him sing.) I'm hoping and I'm pretty sure that this flick is going to melt my balls off while it fucks my eyes with a cybernetic cock full of awesome.
The trailers look fucking great. The story sounds intriguing. And Christian Bale is just a damn ruggedly handsome man. There's really no way this film can suck. (Famous last words...)
As for a sequel, though... I dunno. If this flick works, they could probably make the next one work. Now... if the rumored ending does happen (reprogrammed Terminator wearing the latest in John Conner skin fashion) then... will it be THAT John Conner going back in time to show the people of the past how to be FUCKIN' PROFESSIONALS?! -
Wish I had one o' those.
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"A jock crashing our geek party."Truer words were never spoken. Do you remember the first time an adult said the word "Not" in it's modern usage? Probably with buggy eyes and waving hands? Proving they didn't get the whole "not" thing? That's McG top to bottom.I admire the guys' enthusiasm but he has this apparent unwillingness to hold himself back from ideas that sound great until you think of them for more than 5 or 6 minutes straight.I mean, how cool would Star Wars and Star Trek be if all of the sudden, Jedi were fighting Borg, etc...totally awesome and something each and every one of us have wanted since we were kids right? Wrong. I saw some of that shit were Trek mixes with Marvel...what the fuck were those snapperheads thinking?Must it even be said? Going back BEFORE the 'Judegement Day' war and having Terminators and all the goodies come back in time totally fucking NEGATES the entire story line...even that shitty T3 movie is fucked by that idea. It's on par with having aliens on modern day earth fucking over completely the notion of an Alien, Aliens, Alien3, Alien Resurrection, etc...Why even have different sets? Why do anything with time travel? Just have a story-fied football game of death between humans and cyborgs with lots of red eyes, blood and exploding people, skin masks hanging off shiny chrome endoskeletons...and loud noises, flashes of light and war.You guys realize this is like our version of Idiocracy's "ASS" movie right? Meaningless, pointless, nothing changing, just idiotic spectacle for 2 plus hours.I didn't think McG could fuck up Terminator that bad until I read his plans for the next one. This guy is Michael Bay...if he's watching Discovery channel and some really awesome Mayan ruins show up, he immediately thinks "That would be an awesome set piece!" instead of thinking why it would even happen. McG sees 'The Thing" and thinks it would be awesome to have Terminators harvesting people for their skin because it makes them horrific (even though the human tissue was grown for the terminators, not taken from living people). Well, that's bullshit. What is horrific about Terminators isn't that they're as cold and brutal as humans can be...what is horrific is that you do NOT matter to them. You are either cattle or pestilence, as easily dismissed as removed. But when McG comes up with some of the worst bullshit to justify taking the story to pre-armageddon America, perhaps some of you apologists will stop bending over for mediocrity and the insulting those of us who never did in the first place.All that said, I still hope I'm wrong on Salvation. Fuck the sequel, it's an hopelessly stupid idea and I'm hoping he's similar to Rodriguez in announcing all this bullshit he wants to do but will, thankfully, never get the chance.
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Well, whatever. The only thing I'm miffed about is that according to T3, Judgment Day happened in 2003 (at least I assume so, were there ever any date mentioned in the film). But I think according to TSCC, it happened in 2011. Anyway, another time-travel movie wouldn't be as cool as a future war movie, but let's see where this goes. If you just unplug and go with a military vs. Terminator modern day blow out, why the hell not?
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Then how to explain all the hate for "Reign of Fire"? (I personally love that movie but it has indeed been beaten senseless by the AICN cast & crews).I think it's more accurate to say Bale isn't bad even in bad flicks. Which, doesn't help the 'Terminator: Salvation going to be awesome no matter what cause of Bale' theory...again, hope I'm wrong.
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this sounds incredibly dismissive of the original films.
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Salvation looks good, but I hope the ending in no way steers the franchise toward that shitty shit idea. It looks like McG may have done a good job this time out, but remove him now if he's gonna skullfuck us all. This makes me believe that that old rumor we heard about Connor dying and his skin being worn by a terminator was actually true, and was actually McG's shitty idea -- before fans put him in his place. Sounds like he needs put in his place again. Why can't he just make a 3 parter about the WAR without going all Battlestar Galactica 1980 on us?
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I think "Bale isn't bad even in bad flicks" is closer to what I meant. I completely forgot about that. (I was actually dragged to that flick by the GF at the time because she wanted to see all the "man-candy" running around killing dragons and shit.)
and I'm pretty sure they're harvesting the humans to do research on them to be able to duplicate skin. Not to "Bufallo-Bill" them and make people suits. -
Why did AICN decide not to run with that as headline?
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Keep it simple, stupid. All this talk about more time-travelling and Hunter Killers assaulting modern man is well and good for fan fiction but that dog won't hunt in the cinema. Fans have sat through 3 films to watch the war with Skynet. Focus on that and leave all this other shit where it belongs, in the toilet.
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Terminator 3 actually failed to turn a profit domestically. Sarah Connor Chronicles is probably going to be canceled. Outlook not good.
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...I LOVE TERMINATOR, but haven't we seen enough time traveling dudes running around L.A. trying to stop Skynet?
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I mean, he expects to run around in pre-judgement day time ranting about killer robots and be treated different than his mum? I hope Doctor Silverman gets to treat John as a patient will shock therapy.
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Will Connor arrive in New York in a time travel sphere in order to speak to the United Nations? "Galvanize the militaries of the world". That shit cannot be done before a disaster. That's the beauty of the future war -- the future war is what galvanized humanity together to defeat the machines. Not Jesus Christ Connor pre-Judgment Day. Will McG have him give some stirring speech to the president in 2011 about how we all have to work together for our common future, ending the speech with "no fate but what we make" and the audience gets goosebumps and tears sting our eyes. And 2011 sounds like McG is trying to tie Judgment Day into the year 2012. What a convoluted douche.
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I didn't even bother with T3 since it looked so effing awful. If T:S is actually good I might be interested in this news.
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...but hey, he thinks it's "fucking awesome". What do I know?
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I liked that flick. The ODST troops that jumped from the choppers to capture the dragons were completely badass. That whole scene makes the movie totally worth watching. You can tell from the Star Trek previews that JJ Abrahms totally stole the idea of Kirk orbital jumping from Reign of Fire. The only bad part of Reign was wiping out the army in one fell swoop.
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May 05, 2009 2:14:19 PM CDT
Fuck him, fuck PG-13 and leave the series THE FUCK alone!
by motoko kusanagi
My goodness, already another PG-13 fuckfest in the works? Fuck that!
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I really really REALLY hope it's a good movie... Regardless of the PG-13 rating...
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Salsbury fucking steak.
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McGinty, we all know you read any Talkback that has anything to do with you or Terminator. So just listen to us when we say your idea for the second film SUCKS!! We don't want to see any more time travel plots. The whole thing is one BIG cliche now. Please come up with a better idea if you truly want geek cred and respect. I came up with that idea when I was 13. I'm sure you can come up with something a little more mindful than that right?
By the way, this isn't me ripping on you, ok maybe a little but we're still trying to get the bad taste out of our mouths that was Charlie's Angels. We are Marshall was a better film, albeit a noble failure. Just give us to great movies in a row, study some brilliant action directors like Cameron, McTiernan, and yes even Lucas and Spielberg for their visual talent. But make sure to come up with an ORIGINAL story idea that would fit into the Terminator universe that hasn't been done before but comes together in a cohesive manner as to make the movie better. That is what you and this community seeks for the betterment of all cinema, not to mention your career -
I like aicn but speed it up fellas Don't be so fuckin amature
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at all.
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If the machines nuked the begeezus out of mankind already why send back "conventional" military assets when they could be put to better use in the future? Really though once you can send back machines in full just send back bigger and badder nukes to selectively target sites not originally wiped out on judgment day. Leave behind a little Asimo - bin ladin in a cave somewhere hooked up to a renewable power source. And he can go on to build Skynet to rule over the cockroaches.
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This is the beauty of a Time Travel baseline.
ANYTHING is possible.
No two travels will be the same, timelines can be rewritten, destroyed, discovered, created, etc. With not one ever crossing another.
This is some major scientific, mind gassing, shit!
Enjoy what Terminator vs Transformers will become! -
May 05, 2009 2:58:19 PM CDT
Unless, hopefully, this bombs worse than "Speed Racer".
by jackpumpkinhead
So go and make it so.
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If Skynet want's to travel back in time to take over the world why is it going back to 2011 with its army? In 2011 it has to contend with Tanks, and helicopters and nuclear bombs e.t.c.
Why doesn't it go back to 1000AD where it would only have to face men on horseback, swords and bows. -
The time travel cat has been let out of the bag, now anyone can go anywhere and fuck up the timeline. Skynet made a tactical mistake originally by creating time travel to try to save itself. Now John is willing to travel in time to try to save humanity and also is making things worse. In the end, both Conner and Skynet while still rivals realize they need to find a way to stop the time travel from occuring in the first place. Its like the successor to the nuclear arms race. However, both disagree on who comes out on top...
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This brain fart by McG is not cool news.
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I'm excited for the idea of a trilogy in the future, just that.
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And we can get Terminators vs. Transformers. vs. GI JOEEEEE....
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The further it goes back, the more energy it takes. That's why he could only send single Terminators, into the 80's and 90's but able to send an army to 2011. How's that sound?
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I mean, get a grip. This would be the 5th film in a series about freaking killer cyborgs. Not everything is sacred. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING decently done after the 3rd film would fit the coninuity. They already established in the 3rd film that they can change the past, but SKYNET will still arise in the future. So If a victorious adult John Connor travels to the past to save the world from nuclear war, it would change the future, and result in a future where SKYNET arises with no John Connor (he is in the past), no nuclear war, and a perfected time machine. Even if the continuity makes no sense (they fubar'ed the continuity in the third movie anyway, and even ruined continuity and a broken plot would make more sense than other similar fare like TRANSFORMERS), the action is such a film could be completely bad-ass. And even if it offends by geek continuity-centric sensibilities, I (and millions of other Americans) would watch such a film, just for the epic ass-kicking. Which is exactly why the third and fourth Terminator movies even exist!
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I mean, get a grip. This would be the 5th film in a series about freaking killer cyborgs. Not everything is sacred. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING decently done after the 3rd film would fit the coninuity. They already established in the 3rd film that they can change the past, but SKYNET will still arise in the future. So If a victorious adult John Connor travels to the past to save the world from nuclear war, it would change the future, and result in a future where SKYNET arises with no John Connor (he is in the past), no nuclear war, and a perfected time machine. Even if the continuity makes no sense (they fubar'ed the continuity in the third movie anyway, and even ruined continuity and a broken plot would make more sense than other similar fare like TRANSFORMERS), the action is such a film could be completely bad-ass. And even if it offends by geek continuity-centric sensibilities, I (and millions of other Americans) would watch such a film, just for the epic ass-kicking. Which is exactly why the third and fourth Terminator movies even exist!
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That does make sense, I haven't seen any of the films in years so didn't know.
I think the story could be done far better though as a prequel to Terminator:Salvation, just show John Connor in 2011 forming his army against Skynet using modern day tanks etc, without all that time travel Stuff. If it has to be shown you could set it after T:Salvation with half the movie comprising of flashbacks to 2011 Godfather II style. -
I want to see John Conner defeat Skynet in the future......this whole thing just sounds like a big cheat. Is he going to encounter his past self? Will Nick Stahl come back to play his past self?
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...was that the Human Resistance had destroyed the 'time displacement' equipment after Riese (Reese, Reece?) and the first Term went back in time. "The lab was smashed. We'd won! Killing Conner then didn't matter." Cameron played a bit by having Sarah narrate "Now I know that Skynet sent back two assassins." even though it was implied as technically impossible during the first film.But now that McG has granted himself the golden goose of story telling, "Time traveling" he can just retell any number of superior action movies or stories all set in a pre-conceived universe. I was holding out for a variety of reasons on T:S. McG's constant part "infomercial salesmanship", part "unbridled enthusiasm" starts to wear thin when you realize the ideas this guy seems to be bringing to the table.I don't even give a shit about his stupid name anymore (would you guys please call me "Tiger"? My folks called me that as a kid and I'm kinda partial...I know we don't know each other and this is a professional talkback but still, I was called Tiger in the womb so kick my mom's ass and fucking call my after my nickname whether I know you or not) but he's beginning to demonstrate his singular lack of restraint.Which is the hallmark of all FAIL directors. Even directors who have talent fail when they do not restrain their more cavalier story ideas. Lucas is a perfect example and yet the non-geek film world considers him a god of cinema and science-fiction (hint: the "God" of cinema and science fiction cannot also be the guy who created JarJar Binks. The Universe as we know it would unravel.I find it funny how McG is described by basically all of these sappy gushing fanboy cunny mags and blogs as being a self-professed "Terminator Fanatic". Now, I wonder who McG is trying to convince...us? Or himself?Whoever called McG's idea of a 5 T:S movie with the whole future war coming to modern (or near future) America "shitty fan fiction" is exactly right. The problem is that McG's shitty fan fiction idea won't sit rotting on some forgotten url...it's going to get a budget of $200 million and will be slinging it's Terminator storyline destroying shit all over us. And I'm sure the asshats who bring it to us will convince themselves that we love every moment (if it hasn't already happened).
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I'm skeptical to this. Seems they are going a bit over the top. But time will tell.
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As in LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR you fools! "It's a movie about cyborgs and war!"..."Not everything is sacred"....both true but have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not this or any movie sucks giant rabbit balls.Please, go watch Idiocracy immediately. You are pushing for that undemanding, unrefined, and unrequited movie going public. You are clamoring for droll, trite, and boring...provided there's loud noises and explosions and blood "n shit!".Were you born in the late 90's or something? Did you not see the most very excellent and pure action movies that actually told a great and investing story? AND had great explosions and cyborgs killing each other? But no...that's too good for us. We can't take that quality and would be very happy with an ass throbbing shitty movie. Yes sir! Don't count us as remotely discerning! We eat up shit and ask for more Mamma!And you guys call yourselves Geeks? It's people who *want* to be called Geeks by other geeks, ie poseurs who think that the only thing that matters is a threadbare napkin idea like "giant robots kicking ass".Of course that's a generically great idea for a SCENE (which is probably how Bay writes his pap...comes up with what he thinks is a "cool" scene and then shits out an entire 2plus hour movie around it...hence the next one in Egypt with pyramids, etc I bet the third one features the very "Autobot" logo-looking "face" on Mars. You heard it hear first folks! Transformers 3: Gods of War! Taking place on Mars with Astronaut Sam and his buddy Bumblebee).But a scene does not create a movie unless you're really REALLY talented. A scene can make a movie...but in the hands of medicore talent, it doesn't do more than become a paper thin stretched out excuse for more idiotic action.Seriously. As I thought about how the cinema-going audience would devolved into watching a guy's ass farting on screen for an hour and a half I was like, "Never happen" but when I read comment after comment not only arguing for removing all appreciation of quality but an actual argument against quality in and of itself!But go right ahead...argue away all quality. After all, it's just giant robots with big laser guns...just show that for 2 hours plus and you human-canine crossbreeds will be happy eh?I'll take my giant robots kicking ass or cyborgs killing each other with some good story as well.Thanks for the offer tho.
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http://io9.com/5236443/its-not-too-late-to-save-sarah-connor#shimmer
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http://io9.com/5236443/its-not-too-late-to-save-sarah-connor#shimmer
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Probably the weakest thing he's done and honestly it wasn't that bad.
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May 05, 2009 3:47:01 PM CDT
BRING BACK THE T-800s and T-1000s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by gibsonusa returns
Enough with the new Terminator models. Those are the only ones people want to see. Just get the Robert Patrick and Arnold ones back. No need for a new version every movie.
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Time travel back to WW II with your Terminators and try to take out Sarah Conner's grandfather, Scruffy O'Toole, as he assaults Normandy beach?
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The Terminator story did indeed end with that black highway at night. T1 and T2 are a perfect dichotomy. You don't need to see Judgment day or what happens thereafter. All this subsequent cheese is a violation of the logic and themes Cameron set out. McG and his ilk are just making a giant clusterfuck of the whole thing, not only violating the internal logic of the story, but rendering any of the themes/emoional content utterly redundant. Let them. Cameron will stick two fingers up to them with Avatar and Battle Angel, two trilogies he will have complete control over. Fuck you, McGinty!
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This 'news' is several weeks late. It was reported elsewhere ages ago. Way to go "Ain't It Late News!"
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might be refreshing. Skynet obviously had more than one skin for their Terminators.
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"Hey McG, this time travel shit is fucking distracting. Clean it up or you'll be in the welfare line with the Village Cunt Hurlbut."
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And yeah, enough with the time travel. Move forward, not back please.
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and Bale has control over this script. I think he'll have alot of pull. They changed alot just to get him in the film, and now that they did they'll have a big fat payday.But it puts Bale in a good position. They'll be 100% screwed if he doesn't do the next one, and he can throw his weight around for some decent story ideas if he doesn't like the script.Man, I hope this is a just a McG joke. I think it's probably not, and I just hope and pray that Bale and John Nolan can clean up his crap like they appear to have done with T4. I was against pg-13 from the get-go, but the footage does look great. Everything they release looks ace. But if all goes well and we have a solid flick to stand up there with T1 and T2, WB would be wise to fire this n00b and put in somebody else.As long as it isn't Ratner or Bay or somebody. Heck, I'd like to see Bryan Singer do it at this point.
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Here is an idea for a terminator sequel/prequel no less ridiculous than McGinty's idea. He could do this and further fuck up Cameron's stuff, since he's practically ass-raping him anyway..Skynet sends a T-800 back to 1912 to assassinate Sarah O'Connor, John's Connor's Irish immigrant great-great grandmother, who is bound for a new life in America on the maiden voyage of the Titanic. Terminator arrives at Southhampton docks, and kills some labourers and steals a tweed coat and a flat cap, along with some tickets for the Titanic. During the voyage terminator steals a pistol and has to systematically hunt down Sarah O'Connor. Then the Titanic hits the iceberg. Amid the ensuing pandemonium, termiantor pursues her all over the boat, trying to get a shot in. But the boat splits in half and sinks, and the terminator goes down with the ship to the bottom of the atlantic. Meanwhile Sarah O'Connor manages to escape on a lifeboat, and gets to New York where she has children, and thus begets Sarah Connor and John Connor decades down the line. Circa 1997, post judgment day that of course didn't happen, Bill Paxton and his crew, on a deep dive to the wreckage of the Titanic to look for a diamond belonging to Rose, happen across something unusual. The ROV recovers something glinting in the darkness - a terminator endoskeleton arm caught up in the tangled wreckage. What a find! They sell the arm off to a computer company in return for a huge paycheck (cause they never found the 'heart of the ocean') and thus begins the cycle of nefarious technological tinkering that leads to the creation of skynet and a new judgment day! Oh, the irony!McGinty, call me, you hack! It could work! Just think of the box office returns from combining these two iconic movies, eh?! Get the lube out, we'll show 'Iron Jim' who's boss!!!
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I read the TS novel and it was amazingly good and fell in line with the spoilers and trailers. It in no way matches up to that horrible joke of a sequel pitch. This is about as true as Connor dying at the end of the film and being made into a Terminator.
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Right on. I'm sick of clowns saying "It's a movie about killer cyborgs, cool it." Screw that. Go to a fucking Michael Bay fansite if you're content with just anything studio bosses will shove down your throat. I want quality in my films, which is exactly why I don't go and see shit like Tranformers -- just because it's got loud noises and explosions doesn't mean shit. That movie was crap. And it sounds like McG wants to take Terminator in that direction (modern military vs. big machines) after Salvation. I won't pay a penny to see that garbage and I doubt Bale would want to star in it. It seems like the whole idea was conceived around McG's desire to have Robert Patrick in the movie. Enough with trying to find cameos for Hamilton, Patrick, or Arnold! Especially if an entire movie has to be written around it. Move forward!
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They both suck
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Let James Cameron do that!
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Er ... isn't the whole CONCEPT of the TERMINATOR movies about having the ability to change the past? I mean, pretty much every single one of them, including and especially the first one? Not that I'm defending the concept for this new one, mind you, it's a completely shitty idea, I'm just saying that bitching about "people and killer robots going back in time where they aren't supposed to be will completely ruin the continuity of the franchise" is a pretty dumb argument.
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But who am I to judge. My least favorite incarnation of ALL terminators (T1, T2, T3, and the Sarah Connor Chronicles) is T2.
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in T2, not a scientist. That doesn't even make sense.
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The basic premise behind the Terminator films has pretty much been played out. We all know the fundamental points to it all. All that is left is to do variations or twists on the existing canon. Soooooo, that means less emphasis on original or compelling storylines and more emphasis on whiz-bang effects and action setpieces for the sake of having whiz-bang effects and action setpieces. Like junk food, it tastes good at first but ultimately isn't very nourishing.
Next thing you know, movie makers are gonna start tailoring their movies to specific regions of the country -- they will take the same movie and use CGI to insert regional backgrounds to appeal to viewers in that region, like putting the St Louis Gateway Arch in the background for the midwest, the Atlanta skyline for that part of the southeast, the University of Oklahoma football stadium for that part of the country, etc etc etc etc etc. And of course, a separate version for DVD release, at least until they can come up with a way to create a DVD bonus feature where you can insert your hometown as scenery in the movie. I'm being a little sarcastic, but damn if some suit in Tinseltown doesn't read this and say "HEY!" while he scratches his chin and dollar signs go off in his eyes. You read it here first, guys. May 05, 2009. The name is Jawsfan. I want the credit! -
Only Bale could crack that skull!
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You read the novel? Any good spoilers to post?
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He will go back to the 1950, buy a house in Hill Valley, change his name to Doc Brown, try to recreate the time machine from 50s technology, name it the flux capacitor, and only then will the real adventure begin.
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Assuming time travel is possible, if you send somebody to change something in the past do you think that suddenly in the present, whatever you were trying to fix will change?
Of course not, you simply altered the course of the past. If you believe the "experts" on this type of daydreaming pseudo-science, then you have made but one more alternate timeline of which there are an infinite number.
Terminator movies serve a purpose, the same purpose as Transformers which I see is getting lumped in with the hate here. The purpose is to entertain you and get your money in return. I guarantee you this film will be as entertaining as the last 3 so you have no need to worry unless you need something some deep and meaningful new understanding of life, in that case Terminator Salvation may not be your type of movie.
One final nugget to chew on, or swallow whole whichever you prefer:
If at any time in the future, time travel to the past were invented, then we'd have been visited and told how to do it by now. Also, since the earth is millions of miles from where it will be in the future, if somebody zapped backward in time to the same location, they'd probably just die within seconds in the vacuum of space.
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Not really, what did you want to know?
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I just saw the movie and i definitely think that McG is pulling your leg with this one.
I won’t get into any spoilers, but the movie is definitely a good reboot of the franchise. It’s quite loyal to the two first movies and does include quite a few elements to honour those two movies. It is not as “epic” a reboot of a franchise as The Dark Knight and Batman Begins, but I comes pretty damn close to it. Bale and the other cast members are doing a great job! The universe is dark and grim and does portray the post apocalyptic earth in the right way. The only thing I can really lay a finger upon is some of the scenes with the new robots (it doesn’t look quite right in some of the scenes, especially the large human harvester thing) and a few small story elements which are a little too far fetched. But all in all, a very good action movie.
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But a sequel should stay in the future, and not hop around in time. T-5 should end with an army of T-1000s closing in on a camp of survivors, or something like that.
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I don't think it's a reboot. It's just a sequel. It doesn't really change anything from the first 3 films.
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Why not have the Terminators go back to 1911, they'd have no opposition then? But then John Connor could go back to 1910 and oh, this could go on and on and on...
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[quote=Spoiler! Highlight to see][color=white]This is a spoiler[/color][/quote]
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That idea sounds fraught with potential pitfalls. Goal for that day, use fraught in a sentence. Complete.
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Except for two hours. Still, could be kind-of cool. Although I agree that it's enough with the time travel...we've finally gotten something different with this installment, let's not toss it away, shall we?
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MrEndoskeleton, pls don't get into any spoilers but can you tell us anything that backs up the fact that you have seen it?
What you wrote's pretty vague and could easily be bullshit. Not saying it is... but it could well be.
For example, describe the opening shot. -
Mostly just wanted to know the major beats in the film, as far as what happens to the main characters by the end. And where it leaves things for the next one. Mr. Endoskeleton, if you've really seen it then dish. Your "mini review" is pretty generic and has no real info to it.
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Mostly just wanted to know the major beats in the film, as far as what happens to the main characters by the end. And where it leaves things for the next one. Mr. Endoskeleton, if you've really seen it then dish. Your "mini review" is pretty generic and has no real info to it.
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The day the pilgrims landed in America, and kill them all, and that's that. The more films they make the further they destroy what little bullshit they can play out. I get it! Skynet has to preserve the history time line that leads to itself being invented. We've established this so well that going back again seems retarded.
The first 2 films lead us to believe that Skynet doesn't want to die or jeopardize it's own existence. The 3rd film tells us that Skynet deems us a virus/self destructive, so that's why it begins Global Nuclear War.
So again what the hell does Skynet want? To survive or cleanse?
I guess in the end if Skynet could figure a way to transfer itself into an organic host or wrap itself in enough skin to time travel. If what we are dealing with is a computer that wants to survive/live.
It could back in time before man or some shit and avoid all this drama.
I'm pretty much done with this cash cow. McG isn't cool or intelligent. He's smart but not the same kind of smart I care to waste my time learning from. He's lame, and he's trying to act all bad by saying "fucking" in an interview. He's bullshit. His film will be as well.
Stem cell regen huh. Takes 3 Phases of Clinical trials to bring a drug to the market. 15-20 years. Dolly was back in 1996, and you need to add 5 years or so to that to get to the starting stages of the technology you are talking about.
So now we are going to get an organic matter based regenerative/morphing terminator. *sigh* -
Umm... It's pretty hard to describe a opening shot of a movie without actual getting into spoilers. But here goes: We see Marcus in 2003 before his execution for being a murderer. After the execution we cut to a little text part which describes the war with Skynet. We are then taken to 2018 where the resistance is in the middle of assaulting a Skynet base of some sorts where they discover that there are human prisoners and the plans for the T-800’s (and something else). John Connor is not the leader of the resistance but a colonel in the resistance.
Sorry about the last post. Was a mistake. -
Mainly it splits between Connor finding out about the T800s and warning command and his trying out a new weapon command found that can shut down skynet. Marcus Wright meeting and getting saved by Kyle and Star and then trying to get the resistance to help him save Kyle and Star when they get grabbed by skynet. Blair gets shot down trying to help them all escape(Bridge Scene) and meets up with Marcus who takes him to Connor. The endgame is rescuing Kyle Reese from Skynet Central in San Francisco.
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if the T800 can travel trhough time because it has skin around it (how's that explain the t1000)
Why not just take the weapons of the future and imbed them in bodys. If the body has to be alive. Then you peace meal the parts of those weapons throughout the body. That or you send some future skynet based computer back in time, via the same method, and you hack and destroy the real skynet. -
has all these metal parts inside him, but he can't travel back in time with future guns inside his body, and the reason for this is???? Again this series always had flaws.
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They did that in the first episode of TSCC. A T888 with a gun in his leg. Also, somehow the T1000 Can mimic the bio-field of a living organism and is able to travel through the TDD.
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You've never seen no giant Robots--I've never seen no Giant ROBOTS--no one sees no GIANT ROBOTS--they don't make no Movies w/ GIANT ROBOTS---McG don't make no movies w/ GIANT ROBOTS----There's NO GIANT ROBOTS---
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Hmmmm... i like the idea of Connor time traveling back to the past where he works to build an army (or helps to train his future army), but on a flight to LA, he and his team crash on a island, where he encounters a smoke monster that resembles skynet. Eventually he turns a frozen wheel made from salvaged terminator parts which causes the island to skip through time. Eventually, they wind up 100,000 years in our past and decide to throw away technology and mate with the cave people. With only one terminator surviving, which happens to be Marcus who eventually impregnates a cave women.. The last shot is 150,000 in the future at a strip bar where a young Kirk meets sylar who happens to be the last hero standing.... I think that could work...
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I posted this on my Myspace page. I don't think they need to do time travel anymore, not even sending Reese back.
_____________________________________
Some ideas I have for explaining the complicated effects of time travel in the Terminator films. (Yes, I have too much time on my hands). I especially think it's necessary to explain John Connor's existence without invoking a causal loop. In order to do this I posit the existence of alternate timelines that lead up to the events in T1. The idea of alternate timelines is invoked to explain the later films as well.
EDIT
A consequence of my interpretation is that the time travelers in each of the films came from a different future. For example, the T2 time travelers came from a different future than those of T1. The T1 time travelers came from a future in which the past events of T1 did not occur, the T2 time travelers came from a future in which the events of T1 did occur but the events of T2 did not happen, and so on. I think this is consitent with the films, but it runs counter to the impression that the films give. This is also frees up the narrative from any requirement to show the time travelers being sent back in the current films, since this is a different future.
End EDIT
Original timeline.
John Connor does not exist. Cyberdyne Systems is founded in 1984. In 2004, Skynet goes online and launches a nulear assault on humanity, followed by Terminator fueled genocide of the remaining humans. The human resistance is failing. As a last ditch effort, human scientists invent time travel and send Kyle Reese into the past to destroy Cyberdyne before they can develope the Skynet AI. A Terminator infiltrates the resistance, gains a working knowledge of time travel, and pursues Reese into the past. This gives rise to the first altered timeline which I'll call T0.
T0 timeline.
Kyle Reese arives in 1984. He meets Sarah Connor, falls in love with her, knocks her up. He attempts to complete his mission, but is intercepted by the Terminator at Cyberdyne. Reese manages to destroy the terminator, but is killed in the process, and fails his mission. Cyberdyne's recovery of the Terminator's spare parts accelerates their development of tactical AI and cybernetics. Also, the Terminator's files on the fundamentals of time travel are recovered. Sarah Connor names her baby John and tells him about the future war. The accelerated development of Skynet causes it to go online in 1997, and causes judgment day to occur then. But the human resistance now has a tactical edge with John Connor, whose knowledge of Skynet's strategies allows them to defeat the machines. The roles are now reversed. Skynet decides to use its information on time travel to kill John Connor before he is ever born. Kyle Reese is sent back to stop this, givning rise to the T1 timeline.
T1.
Terminator and Kyle Reese arrive in 1984. Terminator tries to kill Sarah Connor, but Kyle Reese protects her. At Cyberdyne, Terminator Kills Reese, Sarah destroys Terminator. Sarah realizes that she's a target, and goes into hiding. She gives birth to John in secret, and tells him about the future. Around 1994 she attempts to bomb Cyberdyne. She is captured and put into a psychiatric hospital. John Connor is in foster care. He meets Katherine Brewster as a teenager. Her father's military carreer puts him in contact with resistance fighters after judgment day, which occurs in 1997. Once again, the strategic edge provided by Connor results in the victory of the humans. But this time, since Sarah Connor went into hiding before giving birth to John, Skynet's earliest records of his childhood start in 1994 when he was put into foster care. Thus Skynet send a T1000 to 1994 to kill him. The resistance captures and reprograms a T-800 and sends it back to prtotect him.
T2
T800 protects John Connor and destroys T1000. Sarah and John recover and destroy the Terminator parts from Cyberdyne, believing that this will prevent Judgment Day. they don't realize that the existence of these parts did not cause Skynet. They just accelrated the development. So by destroying them, Skynet's development has simply been reset to the original timeline. John Connor is still skeptcal, and lives "off the grid". In 2004 a motorcycle accident brings him in contact with Katherine Brewster, right before judgment day. Once again, John Connor enables the resistance to defeat Skynet. This time, since he's been in hiding for the whole time before Judgment Day, Skynet can do nothing but go after the other resistance fighters, including his spouse, Katherine Brewster (Kate Connor). Skynet sends the TX back to 2004 to eliminate John's lieutenants. Kate Connor reprograms a T850 to protect her and John.
T3
The TX kills John's lieutenants, but the T850 manages to protect Kate and John. When the T850 tells John that Judgment Day is a few hours away, he and Kate try to prevent it. They are unsuccessful, but their attempt leaves them in a government fallout shelter with direct contact with the military. Given the facts that the TX was successful in her primary mission, and that John managing to stay off the grid for his whole life, time travel should not be an option for skynet. But the future of this timeline is uncertain. If the humans win again, skynet cannot use time travel. But if they lose, what happens? If they try to use time travel again, does this just start the cycle over again? I kinda hope the new movies won't go there. I think that time travel is no longer necessary, and this timeline should be decisive. No causal loops. No infinite succession of timelines. -
All I know is the last movie needs to end with Kyle Reese being sent back in time to protect Sarah Connor.
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Umm... where do i post spoilers if someone would like to read them?
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Post them here with a warning.
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no offence to the (legitimately) mentally challenged but that just sounds fucking BEYOND IDIOTIC!
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Probably going to pick up the novelization myself, just for a good read. Have to be careful with those, they are often based on older versions of the script. Or, if we're talking about the PT, the dang novels turn out to be more epic and dramatic than the film, LOL!Your little synopsis gives me a good feeling about this film. Here's hoping it comes to the screen that good and is a winner.
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It's a fast but good read. All the lines from the trailers match up with the books lines as do the visual descriptions and movie screens. They said he had to rewrite the entire book after seeing a update copy of the script. So with the exception of parts of the very end. I think it is pretty accurate.
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McG did say it's "elliptical" and could bug some fans...so what happens?
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"My god. Does that suck".
Just give us the man vs. machines war flick everyone has been waiting for. Never mind getting cute with the time-travel twists. -
can shut the fuck up, until people get to see Salvation. NEVER forget, that this cunt did Charlies Angels, and so far had nothing under his belt, which is better than Big Mommas House. The cunt.
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can shut the fuck up, until people get to see Salvation. NEVER forget, that this cunt did Charlies Angels, and so far had nothing under his belt, which is better than Big Mommas House. The cunt.
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can shut the fuck up, until people get to see Salvation. NEVER forget, that this cunt did Charlies Angels, and so far had nothing under his belt, which is better than Big Mommas House. The cunt.
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It's a damn shame how some of the greatest action movies of all time are being remade into PG-13, pussified kiddie fare. "Speed 2: Cruise Control": Crap. "AVP": crap. Now comes a family-friendly sequel to the "Terminator" which will also be a "war" movie. This is a pretty sad reality because I always thought an all-out war between humans and Skynet would be at least visually fan-fucking-tastic - what with the machines mercilessly ripping humans guts out and whatnot - but not anymore. What we'll have to look forward to with "Salvation," I predict, is an assload of choppy camerawork, Bale over-acting as JC and an enormously weak plot concocted by the same hacks that did such a terrible job with "T3"; but at least "T3," in spite of it being the disgusting travesty it was/is, was funny as hell - "she'll be back"; "talk to the hand"; Arnold beating up on a male stripper then talking into his hand. Hilarious.
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It's a damn shame how some of the greatest action movies of all time are being remade into PG-13, pussified kiddie fare. "Speed 2: Cruise Control": Crap. "AVP": crap. Now comes a family-friendly sequel to the "Terminator" which will also be a "war" movie. This is a pretty sad reality because I always thought an all-out war between humans and Skynet would be at least visually fan-fucking-tastic - what with the machines mercilessly ripping humans guts out and whatnot - but not anymore. What we'll have to look forward to with "Salvation," I predict, is an assload of choppy camerawork, Bale over-acting as JC and an enormously weak plot concocted by the same hacks that did such a terrible job with "T3"; but at least "T3," in spite of it being the disgusting travesty it was/is, was funny as hell - "she'll be back"; "talk to the hand"; Arnold beating up on a male stripper then talking into his hand. Hilarious.
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Sorry.
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May 05, 2009 7:37:05 PM CDT
wehat the hell is wrong with my login
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
this dumb site one mintue says im not logged in and i try to log in and it says my account is blocked or hasnt been activated then i come back to the site later and all of the sudden im logged in?!?!?! then later im not!?!? AWFUL
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NO!
NO, no, no, no, no NO NO!
We want to see the future! The battle to destroy Skynet that LED to all the time traveling terminators! No more fucking around with time travel until Skynet is smashed and it sends back the 800, the 1000, and the X!
...*sigh* Naah, let's fuck around with time travel some more. :P -
Sounds like bad fucking fanfic to me. I was already going to wait for dvd or blow-ray for the pg-13 Salvation, but if this is the kind of dumb shit that McG thinks is genius then I might have to skip Pizza Hut Terminator all together!
And then Robert Patrick walks in! And people in the theater whisper to each other, he played the T-1000!
What a dumbfuck idea. -
For people bitching about Terminator time travel plot issues, go watch that one old episode of Seaquest. Worst fucking interpretation of time travel ever. They had to make sure the future happened, or the past would be erased. Wait, what?
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...if you just stuck to Cameron's storyline (films 1, 2 and the 3D ride) which explained all the varying time paradoxes. Or did I miss something?
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You sound like an idiot if you say it does.
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Cameron>God
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Oh wait, Terminator is always about time travel. DAMN YOU, LINEAR TIME!
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John Connor clones himself so he can simultaneously defeat Skynet in every alternate timeline created by each TERMINATOR film. The end.
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I don't believe the end of Terminator 2 was to imply the series had a tidy ending. Terminator 3, which I enjoyed immensely, was to kick start interest back into the series. The Terminator makes a point to John about Judgment Day and how they only prolonged the inevitable. There always has to be a Judgment Day or John will never exist. Essentially, the universe correct the paradox by having judgment day take place eventually, so that John will send back Kyle to create him. Without judgment day, John does not exist, and thus creates a paradox that, uncorrected, destroys time (although there are other plot contrivance paradoxes, this is the biggest and is addressed by Terminator 3). I think the real haters of Terminator 3 are so upset with the movie because is made them rethink their happy ending... Also, at the end of the day, did you really want Edward fuckin' Furlong as the lasting impression of John Connor? That half-a-cunt couldn't hold Nick Stahl's jock, he was pretty dorky, too.
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I might be one of five people in the world that actually know what you are talking about. That show gotta big What the Fuck? when it did that. No wonder Lucas killed himself.
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This film could be the flop of the year. This "the inside word is" bullshit is typical of people who know absolutely nothing and make shit up in their own heads. Transformers 2 will rock the foundations off every record in history. It will be the biggest opening weekend ever if you ask me. I tip 100 million in the USA by the close of the weekend box office. Anyone who thinks Revenge of the Fallen will tank needs to get a reality check. It looks like it will be the action spectacle to end all action spectacles. McG might want to reconsider the time hopping thing. Connor and the rebellion triumphing in the post Judgement Day future is what the fans want to see.The actual idea of rebuilding society from scratch is just incredible when you acutally think about it.
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So will John Conner make a beeline for Pizza Hut when he gets to 2011?
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I mean, Terminator has always had that element of time travel and the "future war" theme, I think it makes sense that in the next trilogy, we get to see the actual WAR...And it also makes sense that things are different from the "future" that John was expecting, because, both the TERMINATORS and the humans elected to send someone or thing back in time to ALTER it...good or bad, that HAS to change something...WHO knew that by doing that the terminators were creating their own enemy numero UNO...and I agree with nicegoogly on one thing, Furlong was sooooo NOT the John Connor I had envisioned when lining up to see T2...Stall was better, still a bit wimpy, but dang ,I'll take Batman as Connor any day of the week...Just don't ask me to move any lights around him...
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May 05, 2009 9:46:59 PM CDT
surprised it took me this long to post on a Terminator talkback
by t 1000 xp professional
sounds interesting, but I do believe that a future war should not be X'ed... for my next post...
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It'll be about 115 minutes. POW!
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May 05, 2009 9:49:14 PM CDT
Ain't it cool Brothers! just finished a music vid!
by t 1000 xp professional
http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102723436054&h=eGOnH&u=czbIw&ref=mf .... Rockit Sauce- "my quick fix".. Lemme know what you guys think. it's my first music video. hopefully the first of many hehe Maybe i'll even get to be mutilated by my own kin one day. Enjoy!
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McG's idea sounds stupid.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzJ3tTumSBo ...Everything's always better in HD :)
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First, if you feel Cameron didn't get his own movie that he wrote and directed, maybe you are reading something that isn't really there. Second, technically the avoiding ofJudgement Day and Sarah and John changing their fate was in the movie. If you rent or buy any one of the latest T2 DVDs or BluRays they come with the director's cut that includes a scene set in the future from the movie with an old Sarah in the park watching kids play with a voice over how Judgement Day was averted. Just because the studios overruled Cameron in the final cut doesn't mean Cameron's intent was any different.
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please please let it die dude. I know you're all excited because so far people haven't trashed your film, but is there no other plot lines you can think of?
If everyone masters timetravel, there's going to be some major unraveling real quick like, and eventually you'll have to pick your own adherence to time paradoxes in movies... which is it going to be, singular universe or endless number of universes?
If it's a singular universe, if the terminators take over too much of the world, they'll eliminate their creators and disappear in a puff of logic.
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That's about the only way this would be impressive... anything else and it's just going to be Transformers. I personally would love to see a character driven story even further back in time... send a terminator back to the mid 19th century maybe. It would have to be very carefully done with a compelling story, which McG obviously could never pull off.
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Going way off topic...so I finally saw that movie and I was astonished that such a bad movie could come out of such a good idea. It's almost as if everyone involved just kind of lost interest and they edited what they had already shot into what we saw. Attack of the Killer Tomatoes had better story flow. How on earth could this happen? Mike Judge nailed some of the characters and some of them were amazingly lame, with even worse dialog. How on earth could you get an amazing story idea like this and not be able to come up with better material?
I know there were supposedly problems with the movie and the production company etc... anyone know if the full story was ever told? There's got to be a reason.. .it just doesn't make sense.
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And now he has no fucking idea what the second movie will be like??
WTF? -
being planned before the movie is released. Seriously, can these execs not wait a month to see how the fucking thing does??? They might be surprised. Probably not
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How's he gonna buttonhole Beyonce in as mama Connor?
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it has Pepe LePew in it
I have no desire to see this movie -
Doc Brown should Intercept John Conner for a new mission in which they must prevent Gibbons from taking over the world.
While John Is In the garage mulling over a Black Truck that may or may not be his, Doc Brown shows up and gives him an ear full.
"WE HAVE T DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR KIDS JOHN!" Doc exclaims.
What--- Are they ass holes or something? John asks.
"NO!" Screams Doc, "Worst---THEY'RE FUCKING GIBBONS!"
And So Doc And John Hop into the Delorean and go Back to the year 2012 To prevent John from sticking his Dick in a Monk---
This Is the Back to the Future talk back right? -
May 05, 2009 11:54:23 PM CDT
wow...The Terminator franchise is getting as silly as Lost is!!!
by labattsbleu
I mean, its getting a bit ridiculous...I still have some hopes for T:S based on the commercials I've seen - it looks like it might be ok. BUT this silly notion of sending more machines back into the past again?! getting around the idea of the "field created by living tissue"?! Soon all the tenants that made the first Terminator so interesting are being lost...Its just becoming a transparent cash grab by the studio and, really, a talentless hack of a director "re-imagining" a property that he wasn't creative enough to do himself...Really, really dumb idea...
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May 06, 2009 12:04:24 AM CDT
lost is great, the smoke monster rocks!!!
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
"i love you back" greatest line of dialouge EVER. right? RIGHT?
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Hey, i love Lost, but all the time jumping they were doing for a while there got a bit silly...and I hate the idea of the Terminator franchise falling into something like that...with the "Time Travel Door" now open to everyone and everything, you can send terminators back ad infinitum, until they finish the damn job...
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May 06, 2009 12:08:33 AM CDT
Lets be realistic about the Terminator Franchise....
by theycallmemrtibbs
They were ALL POINTLESS Transparent Cash grabs by the studios after the FIRST One!
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Whereas Skynet sent a Terminator after Sarah at the exact time when she was giving birth to John......
Cant remember how it ended -
Is he dumb enough to think he knows how to spread disinformation?
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Bullshit. If we can call out George Lucas for fucking up his own creation, then we can do the same for James Cameron. And no, I didn't see any "director's cuts" of T2. In the THEATRICAL cut Judgement Day was never explicitly averted. If James Cameron changed that with a director's cut, then I'll take your word for it. But if that's the case, then he DID shit all over the first movie, and the entire idea of changing the past (and by extension, the future) IS fundamentally inconsistent with the first movie. And yes, I can absolutely say that if James Cameron does not understand this, that he either doesn't understand The Terminator or just plain doesn't give a shit that he rendered it irrelevant. If James Cameron says that Judgement Day was avoided, then he's treating the first movie as a load of shit that can be ignored and changed at will for no reason. And if James Cameron himself gets a pass for treating his own creation like that, then no one has any call to complain when Johnathan Mostow or McG shits on T2. Cameron set the precedent for shitting on previous installments. And if that gets a pass, then everything anyone does to disrespect previous installments is fair game.
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I remember the Dark Horse comic too. I can't remember anything about it though, other than that the Terminators were of differing races & genders, which at the time was cool to me, after 2 Arnie films where you kinda expect a certain look.
I liked the fact that they could look like anyone you'd see on the street, albeit muscular as fuck. Must have been a pretty dull story though, or I'd remember it. -
I disagree to an extent - i think the second one actually closed the loop like others have suggested...I don't disagree with veebeeyes, that there is an inconsistency in both theme (not being able to change the future) and logic (the smashed the machines after i was sent back, nothing can go forward, nothing gets sent back...) Where I do disagree with veebeeyes is the notion of 'shitting on one's work'; the inconsistencies in T2 are no where near the liberties taken on T3, possibly T:S, and definitely (if the McG qoute is right) T5...
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Cameron lost the rights to the Terminator franchise, so anything that occurred after T2 is not under his watch, and therefore much different than the Star Wars prequels...
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May 06, 2009 12:39:15 AM CDT
I love Bale as much as anyone (who doesn't worship him, of cours
by optimuscrime
But the guy did star in Reign of Fire. Granted, his hits outnumber his misses by a large margin, but the guy isn't batting a thousand.
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The subject line needs to let you know when you've exceeded its limit.
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May 06, 2009 12:44:34 AM CDT
The whole point of this was to delve into the future war
by juansanchez
I don't want one future war movie and back to the past. I had an inkling they'd go back to the past in the end and avert Judgment Day - but at least give us two future wars movies to really explore it.
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..that the war will end here in our time (tonight, as the T1 tagline has is).The future war was never the main event to JC which is why it only ever made a theme park ride and not a whole film.
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..but 3 whole films of future war would not sustain my interest - maybe 2 at a push. Bring it back to the now and finish it here, tonight.
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"brain harvester"? NICE... here: http://tinyurl.com/dcjz8p
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Back when I first caught all the rated R movies, I wasn't cool enough to sneak into... perhaps, I should never re-watch Terminator again, because, I remember it being a dark, cool movie. This "Salvation" looks to be Angry Robots that get slightly medieval, but hold back on calling in the pipehitting *@*&#@! Lame. Please don't reward chickenshit.
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WE ARE FUCKED -- MCG TROLLED US !
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T:S:2 sounds very similar to what I'm watching. And it's shit.
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Is a masterpiece. Number 1: It starred Dolph Lundren. Number 2: It was heman. Number 3: It's better than a majority of big-budget fantasy films.
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May 06, 2009 5:47:48 AM CDT
So in other words Robert Patrick will be playing Aubrey DeGrey
by benito
Great... just what the world needs. More paranoia about stem cell research. What the hell does the t1000 have to do with regenerative medicine. This will either set back public interest in the work DeGrey is doing to cure aging, or benefit it by way of publicity. But I think it's too conspicuous not to be modeled on him.
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May 06, 2009 6:04:16 AM CDT
"This is about as true as Connor dying at the end of the film, e
by benito
"...This is about as true as Connor dying at the end of the film and being made into a Terminator." To the guy who said that - dude, that WAS true. They had to can the idea when the story leaked and the fan response was so negative. They deny it now. But trust me on this - that was the original script. I know you have no reason to believe some asshole in a talkback, but just trust me. I speak the truth. ...For one I'm glad they ditched it. The idea behind it was that 'John Connor is a symbol' and he can live on to inspire even after he dies. I say screw that. Batman is a symbol. John Connor is a man. A man who leads an army because its what he was born to do.
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Seriously, what a numpty!
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The Machinist
Harsh Times
Equilibrium
Laurel Canyon
the Shaft remake
need I go on?
all except for the last I believe went straight to video...
oh did I mention Velvet fucking Goldmine?? -
..got a cinema release here in the UK - and I thought it was greatAnd if you are going to slag of Equilibrium this could get messy.
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he played Batman and was upstaged by the clothes..why the love for this piece of shit?!?!?!?
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T2 has a lot of flaws.. namely logic. Arnold went from bad ass killer from the future to hugging loving robot from the future. Talk about pussying a sequel. Not to mention that James Cameron had to show his wife in long shots for half the movie and the nuthouse scene ran way but way too long. We get it.. she's half-nuts half-right. Geez, early 90is cinema crowd had fucking low IQ or what? But.. Robert Patrick was dead on as a I-don't-give-a-fawk terminator.
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He actually says trying to be deep that Christopher reeeve was not less human because the soul is not in our hands or feet. He tries to take credit for the story. And he says he grew up on action films when he used to say he grew up on musicals and his dream film was an evil kenievil biopic. plus he says he and cameron are directing colleagues Which is like l ron hubbard saying he's on par with Jesus. Douche. Such a douche.
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i.e. fucking garbage, not fit to lick James Cameron's ballsack. When that fella gives you a movie, he gives you a MOVIE. McG gives you watered down shit by committee! Think I'll give this one a miss and just watch T2 on dvd again.Fuck the pretenders! Avatar - Fucking Eyeholes, Pussyholes, And Assholes, This December! Nothing else matters!!
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T2 is entirely consistent with T1. What, it has to explicitly spell it out for you that Judgment Day has been averted or not? It was meant to be left ambiguous; why do you think he used that highway ending, instead of that ending with Sarah Connor as an old woman -because it was more relevant and appropriate to the themes of the first two movies, and he had the good sense to realize that, instead of obviously tying things up with a neat bow for the cheap seats. Whether Judgment Day has been averted or not is irrelevant -T1 and T2 are philosophical paradigms about people in the present facing an unknown future. T3 destroyed that by spoonfeeding it to us.
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[spoiler]Testing(DO NOT MODIFY THE TEXT IN HERE)[/spoiler]
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That does sound lamely short. Hell I'm still waiting for a fucking extended cut of X1.
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according to Fandango.com, where you can already buy tickets in my area. So where are you guys getting 108 minutes from?
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http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=57405.html
This site only gives official runtimes. Fandango got it's 130 minutes from imdb.
We're fucked. -
...silly Hollywood, only believing (or understanding) in a linear flat Universe where space and time are individual physical realities...I still love that line in Contact "Ask for some of that Hollywood money...they've been making millions off aliens and ET for decades" (ironic in a few different ways I suppose). I could bore you with the details but for a quick study, read up on "Schrodinger's Cat" (the general idea being that all possible outcomes of a single event do in fact exist and do so in their own space-time frames but the "you You" only perceives one of them, the one you're in (I say the "you You" because the other "yous" perceive the respective outcomes in their own 'separate but connected' space-time frames!).Theoretical/mathematical "time travel" is such a profoundly excellent, cool, and exotic aspect of physics so utterly captivating as to inspire both creative and academic thought simultaneously! I geek out on this stuff on a daily basis as what good is a pure appreciation of sci-fi without the appreciation (or love) of science?And as to why scientifically, if time travel exists in the future, have we not met these travelers? Why would you not pop out into the vacuum of space due to the cosmos always being in motion?The answer is sublimely simple: time isn't linear and the Universe isn't flat (or, more appropriately, space-time is curved).Yes there's some counter theory but the bulk of the more likely theories all point to the furthest distance in the Universe from your present location at any given point in space/time is the back of your head.
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"And as to why scientifically, if time travel exists in the future, have we not met these travelers? Why would you not pop out into the vacuum of space due to the cosmos always being in motion?"Does this mean that if we never meet people from the future we can assume these good-old newtonian problems are insummountable?If so you are going to have a hard time proving your quantum multiverse time-travel theory over our 'linear-thinking' my old chumScientific Fact is what you can test and what you can measure. Otherwise its a Scientific Theory. What proof do we have that all these quantum outcomes really exist simultaneously? What if reality is no more than the aggregate collapse of all the function - what if there was only one cat all along
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support T1000 xp .. What do you guys think? ;) enjoy
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support T1000 xp .. What do you guys think? ;) enjoy
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May 06, 2009 12:28:02 PM CDT
make sure you take out the spaces in the last link
by t 1000 xp professional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzJ3tTumSBo ... here it is again just in case
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There are two aspects to Terminator: Salvation that have me excited about seeing it.
1) It looks like it will drive the mythology forward rather than simply repeating what's been done before. Story-wise and production-wise, it's vision seems to face forward. (Unlike Transporters, which is happy to wallow with whatever bare minimum will create a return on investment).
2) The idea (and glimmer of hope) that McG has taken the temporal paradoxes that are endemic to the Terminator films and, more than simply explaining them away, has managed to turn them into a viable plot-point. That would be a really neat feat!
As such: This idea of sending Connor back to a point somewhere before Judgement Day, putting it into serious conflict with what's already been seen on-screen, really throws a monkey-wrench into both of these aspects that I'm looking forward to for T:S.
First, it drives the mythology backwards instead of forwards. I don't care about prequels or quasi-prequels. I don't like the Sarah Connor Chronicles. I want to see what comes NEXT. Secondly, it creates such serious time-travel paradoxes that I can't see any feasible way of sorting it out without resorting to some bullshit people of dialogue, a la, "it sure is a good thing we invented this doohickey that allows us to smoke cigarettes in space."
I vote, "no". -
anything mcg says or does doesn't mean shit because he's a fucking hack.
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Equilibrium was fucking great. The Machinist was good too. Suck it.
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Your question: Does the absence of visitors from the future mean we never overcome the physics? Of course not. Why? Any number of reasons not all of which even relate to science.Namely a 'Timecop' or maybe "Prime Directive" type reasoning that says you cannot..must not..alter the past for fear of not only destroying the future but the universe itself. Plus, do not think of your own lifetime as momentous in a historical context. Yes, amazing things might happen in your life but compare them to the scope of things that have occurred since the beginning of time. Or, to put it more accurately, if you were a scientist and you had a working time machine...why would you come back now? What is there to see? Why not witness the demise of the dinosaur or perhaps early man? Or, if you prefer, all of the religious stories as they're told in the various texts?The same question is put forth to those who believe the universe teams with intelligent life. If we've been pumping out EM radiation in the form of radio waves that could be intercepted by intelligent life in the galaxy, why have we not run across even a single unambiguous non-naturally occurring signal? Again easy -> I'll explain via analogy: imagine being in a hot air balloon about a thousand feet up and you were supposed to drop a ping pong ball into a dixie cup. Impossible right? Well, detecting a radio signal is like that but multiply it by about a thousand in terms of the odds.So many variables come into play that actually hearing a signal would be miraculous but not so much finding life in terms of odds. If we KNEW there was life it would still basically be a miracle to hear their radio signals. Even if we knew the general area in which to look! Presuming, of course, that they ever even used radio signals!Though I'm sure you know, it's not remotely "My" quantum universe theory...quite a few guys have discussed it at length...Einstein, Hawking, Schrodinger...and those are just a tiny fraction of the more well known guys.Lastly, science fact comes *after* testing and measurement and, technically to me, never "truly" occurs cause we always work from the notion that we know everything about a particular event when there could be a whole level of stuff going on. Even a scientific law (say F=ma) can be disputed if someone can repeat the experiment. It's just that for hundreds of years the data is exactly predictible in all systems but yet, get to the quantum states and all bets are off! Newton's Laws no longer are "laws"! But my point is that human arrogance acts as if only what is perceived by our meager and primitive senses is the end-all be-all of stimuli release by any given event. That could very well be the case. But it also might not be the case at all. Whole worlds of stimuli could be occuring "under our noses" but we just do not have the 'tools' to perceive them. I sum this up with the most arrogant and self-aggrandizing anthropomorphic nonsense of "If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Oh sure, as if the mere presence of a human being means physics works and the absence of that human means physics takes a breather? Unless of course you believe the Matrix is real. (and even then, in some form, it could be! I just have trouble thinking that human beings are the 'point' of the universe and not a part of it)The linear universe model doesn't explain some of the observable aspects of cosmology. But, you're right in context as it is only a theory and will remain one until more study or more mathematical understanding comes about.Personally, I see so many of the Universe's riddles as a bolt waiting to be twisted open...we just haven't invented the adjustable wrench yet.
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There are at least three (or four, depending on whether you count two closely related theories as separate or not) theories about space time and alternate universes that allow the Terminator kind of time travel to happen without making actual plot holes (well, at least the way the timeline works - none of the theories would seem to allow for the technology to actually send something through time without having to do it far, far away from Earth and with planet-sized machinery to get it done with). Start with Stephen Hawking and Brian Greene's explanations about spacetime to try to understand how it works, then move on to Everett's Many Worlds theories that have since been expanded upon. It's way too difficult to adequately explain (plus I'm not nearly smart enough to simplify it enough for a message board), but I am certain that there are at least a few interpretations of space time that allow for things to work out in the Terminator continuity without even having to resort to the "it's science fiction - obviously some stuff won't be that realistic" point.
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and it's probably already been said, but they better get the lighting right on this one. the last guy was nice and all, but...
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Sure, it sounds cool, but why not just keep the story in the future? I'm sick of the time traveling to the present. Also, T2 is a terrible film.
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Most movies are only about 95 minutes these days. Remember 108 minutes means 1 hour 48 minutes... NOT 1 hour 8 minutes like I believe some of you may be reading it as. As long as it is a half hour longer than Cloverfield's short 70 minute playing time, I think all is good. Admittedly, I would've loved this to be a 2.5 to 3 hour movie...
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if I leave that off the list, there's still a helluvalotta suck remaining but hey I don't think anyone really believes Bale hasn't done a shit movie...
hafta say, enjoying the discussions about time travel - the multiverse ideas (a la The One) and people trying to wrap the Grandfather Paradox around their minds...
anyone heard of the Novikov self-consistency principle? it's to do with determinism or "destiny" - basically, sure there's the potential for an infinite number of timelines but all those which are not entirely self-consistent basically collapse in on themselves and.. well, don't exist... so only timelines with no paradoxes are possible - no killing your own grandfather and NO doing ANYTHING to PREVENT the TRIP BACK IN TIME in the FIRST PLACE!
such timelines cannot exist (according to the theory)
if those T2 lovers out there (usually also T3 haters) can just take a moment to think about that
thought about it?
take a little longer...
ok, you with me?
you CANNOT "prevent" Judgement Day from happening because that would erase the timeline in which Arnie and Reece time-travelled to 1984 in T1!
so, like some people have been trying to say, T1 was totally consistent with no plot holes - UNTIL T2 CAME ALONG -
"Which I think is going to be fucking awesome!" Who the fuck says that, he sounds like a child in a man's body.
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Got a very, very small theatrical release. Shit, the trailer was really, really tiny on the internet, too, you could hardly make out what was going on. I had to find one of two theaters in New York to go see it. Got all my friends hooked on the DVD.
All the movies mentioned, including Laurel Canyon, had theatrical releases. -
That echoes my post from earlier, so right on! Also, there was a post about the director's cut and Sarah playing with her grandchildren while John Connor was President. I have every incarnation of the the Terminator VHS and DVD's, and that scene was never part of the actual cannon. It is a deleted scene on the director's cut, not incorporated into the movie. The end is the black road, leaving it open to sequels. Cameron made that choice, not the studio. Sarah acknowledges that their future is what they make at the end, not that the crisis, in its entirety is averted. It would be too much of a departure from the end of the Terminator. Cameron is famous for mirroring the big moments in the first two films, from the private moments to the chase scenes. This includes the end. Sarah only had an idea of the future at the end of the first movie. Given how Sarah handled her knowledge at the end of the first film and made her who she was in the second film, it is highly unlikely she would suddenly not be paranoid about the future still. T2 can make sense with Terminator and Terminator 3 if you let it. The end of Terminator 3 is great. John Connor finds his change purse and accepts his responsibility. How fuckin' cool is that. My one major complaint (the movie is not, by any means perfect) is that lack of a music track during some of the action sequences. Just does not seem right.
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Reading your posts and replying really makes my brain sing! Good comeback re: future travellers!Your original post (2nd para) seems to be implying spacetime and the quantum-multiverse are the same thing. They are two independant ideas that have , so far, resisted all attempts to combine them adequately and both Eintein and Schrodinger had their doubts it could be done.The truth is that in 100 years of quantum theory we have yet to witness any quantum event happening on anything larger than a photon. What if we never do? You say that our 'meager and primitive senses' prevent us from percieving the reality. But what if the extremes of quantum theory ARE correct and an observer is EXACTLY what is required to collapse the infinite variations of quantum outcomes into a macroscopic subjective reality? Where then the multiverse? Or could you or I just be a Boltzman event.We still have massive problems with cosmological observations WITH our existing models. With dark matter, string theory etc. theoretical physics is beginning to resemble religious dogma with constant tweaking and vested interests defining its course. Of course any student pointing this out to their physics professor is going to be labelled argumentative or disruptive (or even worse - not clever enough to grasp the concept) but we must continue hounding quantum physics until a) it is proved b) replaced by a new paradigmAnd as for the age old question 'If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?' there is only one scientific answerNot in a vacuum
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..I managaged to typo the name of one of history's greatest scientists.After Newton
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That's what makes quantum theory so interesting. I personally like string theory much better! And, of course you could be 100% correct that our senses are sufficient only our understanding is not but then that wasn't specifically my point (as I'd never argue with either validating or invalidating scientific theory by using science!) but more specifically human beings invalidating potential scientific discoveries without having anything other than a lack of evidence or even a preponderance of evidence pointing in a different direction than the theory.That's why I brought up that silly notion of the tree falling in the woods. It's been my experience that people, including scientists, have a tendency to let their egos get in the way of their objectivity. While it may be true that there is no such thing as an unbiased human, these people don't even attempt to try or apparently even acknowledge their inherent bias. The same fools once said we'd never fly, never develop working nanotech (pre-transistor), never split the atom, never travel through the air faster than sound and even never drive a land based vehicle faster than sound (they were wrong on all counts).And today, even scientists will say we will never travel faster than light or discover anything else that does (already proven false), never have any 'Star Trek' type technology (we've already 'teleported' a sub atomic particle in labs) and so on...and even if we hadn't actually disproved those scientific cynics (no, not skeptics..skeptics doubt, cynics say 'not possible') to have the arrogance to say that this will never ever happen with the infinite horizon of the future before us just smacks of the worst form of asshole human arrogance. To get that childish bullshit from a scientist, of all people, is just annoying.In my reading, I would agree with you that some of the quantum stuff seems more likely to be 'intermediate theory' bridging the huge gaps between classic physics and what I hope will be the GUT (I consider quantum to be in line with modern but not the end results with which the unified theory will give us).
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..all the way. Thanks again for the enjoyable posts. We may sit on either side of the fence about todays scientific theory but we can both agree that, while we may never have all the answers, we should appreciate the journey that trying to find them takes us on. Here's to the new paradigm - whatever it will be!NOW GO SEE STAR TREK!
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My expectations for Terminator Salvation just went down after reading that paragraph.
Seriously McG? Enough with the traveling back in time shit. Its old and played. Didn't you learn anything from T3?! -
... aren't those FTL particles you mentioned the ones that effectively time travel? I remember there being certain particles that move so quickly that they arrive at their destination before they leave - meaning they actually do travel in time. I just can't remember what they were called (I was just in a coma a couple of weeks ago so my memory is still a little fritzy...)
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They move backwards through time. And I hope you make a full recovery mate - glad you pulled through
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