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Alexandra DuPont Slices Into X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
X-Men Origins: Wolverine: The Version You'll See In Theaters: FAQ
(by Alexandra DuPont)
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"I have a memo for the naughty-minded Talk Backer 'Lickerish': You'll be delighted to read that [Hugh] Jackman makes for an extremely charismatic, hairy-chested Wolverine. Jackman speaks for the audience (or, rather, for whom the audience wishes it could be when it's having a bad day at the office), making fun of the code names and the uniforms and pretty much every other superhero trope even as he quietly relishes the fantasy heroism. It's a star turn, methinks; the first time Logan's claws shoot through the skin of his knuckles, it packs a thrill akin to one's first viewing of the T-1000 morphing his hand into a blade."
-- First impressions of Hugh-Jackman-as-Wolverine in my nearly nine-year-old review of "X-Men" for this site. (BTW, does Lickerish still post here? She was basically the cabaret vamp of TalkBack back in the day.)
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Q. What's the upshot?
As I'm sure the more seerauber-minded among you already feared, the final theatrical version of "Wolverine" is an overstuffed, chaotic clambake of a mess of a wasted opportunity. The screenplay (by David Benioff and Skip Woods) just wasn't in any kind of shape to come out of people's mouths -- it's so full of plotty comings and goings that it never pauses to flesh out a character, turn a phrase, or create a moment that sticks with you.
Here's something I never thought I'd write: "X-Men: The Last Stand" is a far better superhero movie than "X-Men Origins: Wolverine." Yes, "X3" is a continuity-challenged rush job that isn't nearly as epic as it should be -- the whole thing feels like a Canadian "Battle for the Planet of the Apes" -- but at least it concludes a larger story arc, has one provocative core idea (the Whedon-inspired dilemma of a mutant "cure"), gives Ian McKellen a couple of speeches, casts Frasier Crane as Beast, and doesn't make every single one of its special-effects shots look like a 10-year-old animatic.
In other words, for all its problems, "X3" is actually about something. "Wolverine" isn't about anything. It just kind of moves Logan around a bunch and expects you to go "squee."
I'm more sad than angry, though -- because several people in the film (especially Hugh Jackman) are working like maniacs to try and compensate; there was apparently a metric ton of set-repainting studio micromanagement; and there are a couple of cool ideas and characters that get thrown under the nonsense-tractor.
Ultimately, the film's failure boils down to three crucial mistakes by director Gavin Hood, the screenwriters and/or the studio: (1) "Wolverine"'s story covers too much ground too quickly and crams in too many characters. (2) Everyone speaks in brisk, boring cliches. And (3) Hood is really on-the-nose with the big emotional moments -- putting big fat cinematic exclamation points on everything to the degree that those moments feel like ZAZ parodies of big emotional moments.
Basically, I think there's going to be a lot of the wrong kind of laughter echoing through the nation's multiplexes this Friday. Thanks again, Mr. Rothman!
Q. How does the final version differ from the leaked workprint?
I have absolutely no idea; I didn't download or watch the workprint on general principle. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious to learn what was changed, though, and if they put the workprint on the Special Edition DVD, I'll absolutely watch it first. The TalkBack is here for your edification and enjoyment.
Major spoilers henceforth (if this movie is even spoilable, given what happened).
Q. What's the story?
"Wolverine" purports to explain how Logan became the cool loner amnesiac we met in 2000, and maybe the best thing is just to say "stuff happens, with too many cameos" -- because seriously, trying to sum the plot up in any sort of detail makes you sound like that guy from the FedEx commercials:
It starts in the mid-1800s when Jimmy Logan is a sicky kid and finds out he has a brother named Victor and an abusive dickhead drunk for a dad who kills Logan's kindly adopted dad and so Logan suddenly sprouts bone-claws and goes into his first berzerker rage and kills his father and runs into the woods with Victor and that's just the first five minutes and then Logan and Victor -- who both have healing factors and feral fighting skills -- fight in every major American war and that's just the opening credits and then Stryker recruits the brothers into a mutant black-ops unit that includes Deadpool played by Ryan Reynolds who's really funny for like five minutes and then Logan walks away after a My Lai-style incident in which Stryker kills civilians who know the secret of adamantium and Logan becomes a lumberjack and falls in love with a hot schoolteacher who talks a bunch of telegraphed mystical nonsense about the moon and wolverines and then --
*gasp*
-- Victor for some reason starts killing the rest of the black-ops team and maybe the schoolteacher and Logan swears revenge and goes back to Stryker and gets adamantium lacquered over his skeleton as part of the Weapon X project so he can kill Victor and then Stryker suddenly orders Logan's memory erased so Logan busts out and jumps naked off a waterfall and hides with an inexplicably kindly Ma and Pa Kent-style couple who give him their son's cool leather jacket and then there's a motorcycle chase and Logan teams up with the surviving black-ops guys and gets in a wacky boxing match with a binge-eating mutant and goes to New Orleans and meets Gambit and goes to yet another secret and shockingly poorly guarded military base to fight Stryker where every single mutant we'll see in the other "X-Men" movies is evidently being held prisoner and then there are some surprises and a big fight with Weapon XI that explains the Three Mile Island disaster but not really and there's also a lot of walking around in hallways and key characters inexplicably turning up in isolated locations exactly when they're needed and maybe there's also some silliness with adamantium bullets and oh right there are multiple "stinger" endings that are being shuffled in different theaters that are totally stupid and skippable until the DVD comes out.
And I left out a bunch of stuff. It's just an exhausting pigpile of silly tragedies involving family members and loved ones you don't get a chance to care about -- and it made me realize that the partial explanation of Logan's past offered in "X-Men 2" was plenty.
The story also kind of paints the filmmakers into a corner. I mean, where can they go from here, except to make a series of sequel-prequels in which Wolverine endures new tragedies as new doomed loved ones keep coming out of the woodwork and he keeps losing his memory over and over and over? It might be neat if they took Logan to Japan and played out that whole classic comics era where Wolvie fell in love with a woman mixed up with the Yakuza and started dressing in samurai outfits and monologuing about warrior codes and shit -- but the current Fox administration leaves me with zero confidence that they'd do the idea justice.
Q. What's good?
1. Several of the actors refuse to phone it in, no matter how addle-pated the filmmakers keep trying to make them look. This starts with Jackman, who plays Logan a little softer-hearted than usual, but who also looks like he strength-trained for the role this time by running marathons while wearing hockey pads over a sweater festooned with Russian kettle bells. (Lickerish, if you're reading this, you won't be entirely disappointed; Jackman is ripped.)
He and Liev Schreiber (a real live comics nerd who plays Victor/Sabretooth with an enthusiasm that borders on heroic) are pretty great together -- even if the script never really bothers to explain why Victor turns on his brother and his teammates. There are no relationship-building conversations anywhere in this movie. The closest thing to a psychological profile that the screenwriters can manage for Victor is when he suddenly decides to fight Weapon XI alongside Logan and explains himself by saying, "Nobody kills you but me." Uh, okay. The fact that Schreiber almost makes this line work is a testament to his craft, and I'd pay good money to see him sit down and discuss the nuances of Sabretooth with Tyler Mane.
Danny Huston also retains that whole ruthless-slimeball-beset-by-woe thing that Brian Cox pioneered with Stryker, and Ryan Reynolds is funny and cool as Deadpool in more or the less the exact same way he was funny and cool as Hannibal King. That said, I gather that Deadpool is a cult-favorite character among comics fans -- but the film has Stryker basically surgically transforming him into a shirtless, mouthless super-bitch (controlled by typed keyboard commands!) who looks like a badly-made-up cross between Kroenen, Darth Maul and Siouxsie Sioux. (The film shows this character so little respect, it doesn't even let the same actor play him for the entire film.)
2. The opening-credits sequence -- which sees the brothers having a jolly good time slaughtering their way through most of the major American wars -- is easily the best part of the movie. It's full of clever transitions and jittery freeze-frames and decent action choreography and lots of increasingly worried looks by Jackman at the increasingly bloodthirsty Schreiber. These looks convey far more honest emotion than all the melodramatic screaming that comes later.
3. I do like the idea of Wolverine reluctantly serving on a black-ops team with a bunch of wisecracking mutants, and would have liked to see more of that in the movie. Or at least I would have liked to see more of that than I saw of Logan being a sad lumberjack.
Q. What's not-so-good?
1. Along those lines: If I do have one beef with Jackman's character this time around, it's that he just isn't having any fun any more, even when he should be. In the first "X-Men," he's hilarious and unrefined in addition to being angsty and pissed-off -- he's calling everyone on their self-importance and making fun of everything silly about superhero comics and trying to steal the quarterback's girlfriend (and successfully stealing the motorcycle). Sorry, but I don't really want to see Han Solo cry and babysit -- and that's what the script has Logan doing for most of "Wolverine."
2. The special effects are shiny and unconvincing. They are a very specific kind of shiny and unconvincing -- where it looks like the studio realized the movie wasn't going to be as successful as they'd hoped, so they told every effects house working on the show to skip the last couple of rendering passes to save money.
Examples: The entire final fight on the lip of a Three Mile Island cooling tower, which looks like something out of "Spy Kids 3-D"; Wolverine's claws, which look less convincing than they did in 2000, partly because they're digitally rendered even when they could have been practical; and, most hilariously, a ridiculous surprise cameo by Professor Xavier in which the filmmakers once again try to de-age Patrick Stewart digitally (a procedure that worked rather well in 2006) and instead make him look like a botoxed Star Child.
The filmmakers also, for some inexplicable reason, feel the need to abuse green-screen projection for way too many of the driving scenes. I watched Fozzie Bear drive a real live car down a real live road 30 years ago in "The Muppet Movie." Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet?
3. The dialogue is declamatory and punch-card generic. It's the sort of verbiage an incurious writer raised on movie cliches cooks up in a hurry in place of actual human speech. This is the sort of flick where Wolverine walks away from Stryker and Stryker yells, "I know what you really are, Logan!" There are literally dozens of moments like this, where you hear the line and immediately think to yourself, "Wow. I have officially heard this line of action-movie dialogue too many times in too many movies to actually believe it any more."
4. But the unintentional "Wolverine" clichés aren't just verbal: they're also visual. For my money, the movie's single biggest crippling factor is the way Gavin Hood constantly embraces the easiest and most melodramatic shot choices in an attempt to a create a cool or powerful moment -- only to accidentally create an unintentionally funny moment instead.
What, you want examples?
How about the two or three separate occasions that Hood places his camera above a kneeling Logan so he can look up and howl at the heavens after someone dies -- only to have it look exactly like George Costanza yelling "KHAAAN!!!" in "Seinfeld"? How about the overly posed shots of the black-ops team walking down the middle of the street in perfect "Right Stuff" formation during a covert operation? How about the shot as Logan abandons the black-ops crew in the jungle, and we see the evil mercs standing in a row as the camera pulls away from them -- and then there's a giant lightning bolt to underline the fatefulness of the moment? How about the eighteen thousand different shots of a mutant in the middle of a fight flipping and landing in a perfect crouch and looking back over his shoulder with one hand in the air and his coat flapping just so?
I could go on and on. What's awful here is that these relentlessly stupid visual flourishes betray everything Bryan Singer was trying to establish in the first "X-Men." Whatever that movie's weaknesses, Singer always went for emotional truth first. He wouldn't hang the camera 10 feet above Hugh Jackman's head during a death scene; he'd actually get in close and trust Jackman to convey Logan's feelings without a needless piece of cinematographic punctuation that distances you from the character's face. This is the major failing of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" -- and all the motorcycle chases in the world aren't going to make you gloss over the laugh-out-loud awfulness of those moments.
5. Couple of nitpick questions: First, do you seriously expect me to believe that all of the literally dozens of mutant characters Logan rescued from a top-secret military installation failed to recognize him when he turned up at Xavier's school a few years later as an amnesiac? Second, how did the adamantium-bonding procedure as depicted in the film (Stryker just sticks Logan with a bunch of fluid-pumping needles) give Logan perfectly sharpened Ginsu claws, given the gnarly broken bone-claws he had before?
6. I know I mentioned that Stryker controls Deadpool/Weapon XI with typed keyboard commands, which is just hilariously '80s. I don’t think I mentioned that one of the commands Stryker slowly types during the big climactic fight is "DECAPITATE."
Q. What did your fellow screening attendees have to say afterward?
"R.P.," console-gaming engineer: "I think we should probably found some sort of post-traumatic stress organization for comic geeks who saw 'Wolverine.' We could sit in circles and share our feelings, and maybe knit or do other calming exercises. I think we could really help a lot of people through what's going to be a very difficult coping -- and, eventually and hopefully, healing -- process."
"P.H.," telemarketer: "I feel very bad for Gavin Hood. Very, very bad. I'm not even being facetious, I'm just ... like, you come off of 'Tsotsi,' and then Fox just straps on claws and doesn't stop 'til they stab your movie in the back of its teeth? I'd feel bad for Hugh Jackman, but his sing-song bullshit during the Oscars was really irritating and I am really petty so fuck that guy."
"Andre Dellamorte," CHUD writer: "The problem with prequels is that they can only be tragedies."
"V.Q.," policy analyst: "Emma Frost, a brilliant character, basically got the same treatment as Bane in 'Batman & Robin.'"
"E.C.," ambassador: "As the final credits rolled, I half-expected Tim Curry to pop up and say, 'But here's what really happened.' That was so confusing and ADD, even John Byrne couldn't retcon his way out of it."
Warmest, Alexandra DuPont.
AlexandraDuPont@yahoo.com
Arm yourself to attack my critical judgment! It's easy and fun! Visit The (recently updated) DuPont Bibliography!
(by Alexandra DuPont)
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Wolvie movie should be like first blood. not this crap. what a insult to the character.
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I was wondering the same thing.
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It sounds terrible.
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I work with who liked it are fucking morons.
I'll still see it but it sounds awful. -
Is Alexandra DuPont no longer good enough for the main site? I wish you reviewed more often, like the old days, Miss DuPont.
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... then how will I have maximized my incentives from the Papa John's enormous, colon-stopping XXXXXL cheese pizza, now with 598% more cheese and 154% more despair?
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looking forward to this summer..keep bringing the pain
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Are they familiar with wolverine from the comics at all? because if your not, then i can see how they could like it. But god it sucks.
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You are, by far, the best reviewer AICN has or has ever had.
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He's acting like a fucking child. Go dry hump The Spirit, Mummy 3 and Twilight and stop whining like a prissy girl.
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Seriously, who in the hell watches a film where mutants deflect bullets with swords and have alloy infused into their bones and then whines about plot holes and logical missteps? And this quote is classic: "Whatever that movie's weaknesses, Singer always went for emotional truth first." While I agree Singer's films were better, you're flatly delusional if you think there is a large gulf of quality separating X1 and X2 from this film. Neither of Singer’s films has aged particularly well and both had many of the same problems you verbosely ramble on about in your specious little editorial. Again, as I've posted in other forums, this film is very flawed but the way it's being systematically targeted for evisceration is strange. There are and will be plenty worse films than Origins to shit on this year, so really, what the fuck is going on here? Lastly, placing a word in your review that many people may not know is fine but actually linking that word to the definition is painfully condescending. I think most people have the requisite skills to use a dictionary if they need one.
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they certainly are a literal bunch of programmers aren't they? Put that together with the "mindwiping bullet" and we have cinematic gold.
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May 01, 2009 1:24:14 PM CDT
I am so very tired of the "they have superpowers so it's critici
by anakinsdiapers
Really, it's a lame rebuttal. Superman existing in ones created reality doesn't mean sloppy writing gets a pass.
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...but for a $6 matinee on a rainy Friday morning it was jolly good fun. Everything above, positive and negative, is true. It will still make a boatload of dough. $75 mil opening weekend, $150-$175 mil domestic in a month.
Could have used some titty.
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talent squandered
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These just turned up in my mailbox from more fellow screening attendees, so I'll add them here:
"V.Q.," policy analyst: "Emma Frost, a brilliant character, basically got the same treatment as Bane in 'Batman & Robin.'"
"E.C.," ambassador: "As the final credits rolled, I half-expected Tim Curry to pop up and say, 'But here's what really happened.' That was so confusing and ADD, even John Byrne couldn't retcon his way out of it."
That is all. -
What i meant to say was the existence of the fantastical does in no way make lazy writing and nonsensical behavior acceptable. That's a lame rebuttal of criticism that always rears its ugly head.
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Good review as usual Miss DuPont.
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I think the guy is seriously fucked in the head and he's spat his venom in my direction before, but come on, at least it was fun with him around to bait and he was awfully funny albeit a very, very sick puppy. BRING BACK THE DICKBLOOD!
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..is the biggest mistake they could make. Not knowing his past and letting the reader wonder was part of what made Wolverine so interesting originally, it's like the great TV almost-romances, once the characters hook up no one cares any more.
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and she liked it.
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You've done an elegant job of talking me out of seeing this film (I especially like the unflattering comparison to THE MUPPET MOVIE). I'm dying to hear what you thought of STAR TREK.
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I totally agree. Yet another waste of a concept, cast, and time from 20th Century Fucks. BTW, I'm sure Hugh will be ecstatic to know he looks just like George Costanza. BTW#2, what's with all these reviews saying his name's "James Logan"? It doesn't give him a last name in the credits, but maybe that's how they justify everyone except Creed calling him "Logan" in the film, because they never address the on-screen, not surprisingly. BTW#3, I was going to open this post with "RAAAAAAAAPE!", but I'm saving that for next week.
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between this shit and the 1st 2 xmen films. if you don't see that...well...fuck you it's true. those were good films..this is not. simple as that.
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I agree with this review. But it's still fun to watch the film. But then again... I watched 17 Again out of desperation to watch something at theaters that I hadn't seen already. So.
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May 01, 2009 1:37:09 PM CDT
DANNY sleeps during the day...as do all of Bales's true minions
by six demon bag
Bale commands it
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talk about torture porn
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Wow, I could almost stand up and cheer after hearing that this line exists. That's the Sabretooth I know and love.
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Fuck you, Tom Rothman! This movie should be absolutely fucking great and instead we get utter shite! Well, Fox didn't get my money for X3 and they won't get it for this turd, either. I'm going to the James Bond marathon at The Aero this weekend intead...
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for actually giving a spoiler filled review to PROVE I'm not going to see this this weekend... God this sounds horrible...
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First, I'm not a Wolverine or X-Men fan. Previews/Trailers of this make it look pretty good. Sad to say I almost fell asleep during it. Maybe I was expecting something as good as Iron Man or Dark Knight, whatever I was expecting it didn't live up to it. It had it's good points, but many more poor points.
Cut out Gambit, extend the Mutant Black Ops stuff, and end the movie after Logan gets the Admantine/mind wipe; have one final showdown with Victor and have Logan get knocked off the waterfall - THE END. Would be a great way to have it lead into X-Men 1 or a sequel. -
to X3? Not a story sequel per se but why couldn't the Wolverine stand-alone movie take place after X3? If they want to throw in some more weapon X stuff in flashbacks, so be it. Even if they want to make Wolverine and Sabertooth half-brothers, so be it. But keep it short, keep it in flashback. A sequel allows you to not have to worry about doing a half-assed job of matching up the continuity with the X-Men trilogy. Thanks to Lucas everyone went prequel crazy...I hope this disaster of a movie officially ends the prequel craze.
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Put it in your facebook status, tell your friends, do whatever you have to do and maybe we can kill this franchise and reboot it.
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May 01, 2009 1:41:33 PM CDT
I dont trust anyone who says X3 is better than Wolverine
by mysterious_volvo
what kind of retarded fuck would say that?
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*Shudder* DANNY would be the strongest man on Bale's green earth if he could make it through that.
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The way this movie is being targeted universally by dweebs is curious. Like any "critic", Miss DuPont will only use logic in her review when it makes her look smart, not for consistency in addressing the faults in a film. And yes, Miss DuPont, I have a dictionary and use it. Don't be so fucking condescending.
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And bringing along for a quote the only reason to ever even click on CHUD Andre Dellamorte. Fuck Nick and Devin up their stupid asses with Deadpool's retarded sword claws. This movie is a disaster. I got more satisfaction from the disappointment that was Watchmen. So if this movie makes a shit-ton of money which it will despite being crap because the mainstream loves their Wolverine (he's obviously not OUR Wolverine anymore) then I wonder how they are going to do X-Men:First Class. Cyclops, Jean, Beast, Emma Frost,and Quicksilver? Bah. I don't even give a fuck anymore. We certainly won't get the Deadpool movie that we deserve now ( Yes yes I know..."Shhhhh!" Whatever.)In conclusion I'll read anything AdP writes as once again, she hit every nail on its head.
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Way to spoil the party, Mr. Ambassador.
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You pretty much could nailed everything that was horrificly wrong with the movie. I sent this review to all my friends that enjoyed the movie. I don't understand why you get so much flak on this site, but I generally love your reviews. I think they are great. You need to post more often.
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"The filmmakers also, for some inexplicable reason, feel the need to abuse green-screen projection for way too many of the driving scenes. I watched Fozzie Bear drive a real live car down a real live road 30 years ago in 'The Muppet Movie.' Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet?" - Insightful AND witty.
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May 01, 2009 1:45:08 PM CDT
"Is there a reason that Jackman is denied the privileges afforde
by d.vader
"Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet?" Now that's good humor.
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Hearing about everything in explicit detail has me prepared. Maybe now I know what I'm going to hate I can go in and possibly find something to love.I won't, but I'll try.
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the "Logan-in-japan" one, the "Wade wasn't really weapon 11" one or something we haven't heard about?
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I agree completely - that Muppet line is priceless.
There's no way in hell I'm going anywhere near this fucking travesty. Let us remember Wolverine as he was. -
I lol'd whilst I cried, which always helps. Thumbs up.
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...enjoyed this movie, I wish to address a couple of points in tha nitpick section of the review.
i) re: the nice, smooths claws laid over gnarly bone claws - Taake it up with the comics. That's exactly how it happened in the comics. And seeing as how all the tossers squeal:"They fucked with the comic history!" it seems that the filmmakers were damned if they did; damned if they didn't!
ii) Why didn't the attendees at Xavier's school recognise the amnesiac Logan when he turned up years later? Well, as far as I could see, Cyclops was the only person who appeared in both eras and he never saw Logan. There is absolutely no reason why the handful of mutants broken out of the facility in Origins would necessarily remain at an institution set up by Xavier years later (for example, there was Emma Frost and a young Banshee in the group who did not appear in the subsequent X-films.
There seems to be a case where people who have already decided to hate this movie are throwing out any logic that may actually contradict their well composed rants. -
Seriously. This is what you get when theirs no passion behind a project. Shame on anyone who still shits on Watchmen. You deserve X-Men Origins Wolverine.
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No you have it totally wrong. It is "Thanks again everyone who paid to see X3 and who is paying to see Wolverine when it's clearly awful". YOU are the motherf'ers who are to blame....supporting these kind of movies, not Rothman who is just trying to make a buck. If you pay to see this movie, you are the problem.
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fantastic review, loved it, very good job.
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X2 was so good. For better or worse X3 was the end of a pretty good three story arc started beautifully by Bryan Singer and ended averagely by Brett Ratner.
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Friday afternoon matinee' FTW. I've been collecting/reading/loving Wolverine comics for over 2 decades so we'll see... we'll see. I've been reading a lot of interviews, skipping most of the spoilery stuff, and weighing more on the side of reviewers who are actually familiar with the source material. So, like I said... we'll see.
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I mean really, how the fuck do you fuck up Wolverine? Did I eat the blue pill? Fuck
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from a recent dvd.
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I agree with those who say Ms. DuPont is and always has been the best reviewer AICN has ever had. But, really, with all due respect, Ms. DuPont: Nobody gives a fuck about your friends, their opinions, and/or particularly their occupations.
The polling-the-Benetton-buddies bit is a tic that AdP has added relatively recently, and it's been irritating every time. More so when the right-wingers in the stable say patently idiotic, easily refutable things about the Cold War (*cough* Watchmen), but even when politics isn't involved, I could frankly care less what your crew have to say about the film in question, and/or what they do for a living.
Otherwise, another excellent job. Carry on. -
Your reviews are always a welcome pleasure. A ray of sunshine in the sewer of the internet.
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Just the other day I was wondering (as I often do) if there is any really good reason to bother with this site, and then I come across another one of your fantastic reviews. You are entirely too good for this site.
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The leaked work print would only have heightened anticipation for the finished product.
But you know what, I think they knew it was shite.
They knew it was so bad that anyone seeing the work print (anyone with an ounce of critical ability) would realize how bad it was.
When Lucas made the first actual "Star Wars" movie, he used footage from WWI dogfights, and guess what, it DIDN'T MATTER and people liked it because the plot, acting, script were so good.
Lessons can be learned from this.
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It's pretty tragic, if you ask me. Everything Fox touches turns to shit--from their faux cable news network for Republitards to their Whedon-punking broadcast network to their shitstain of a movie division.
Fuck you Rupert Murdoch and your hot piece-of-ass Chinese wife! -
flay Harry alive for not writing a review to being drowned in them from all other AICN contributors I think. This is one smelly internet hogpile already though - - makes it hard to resist wanting to see for myself at this point.
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I've seen it and it's not completely terrible because I like the characters too much. But as said above, the big problem is it's not character driven, though Hugh and Liev especially sure try. That was Singer's problem in in Superman film - it wasn't character driven and a cold-distant Kal/Clark did not work at all. His two X-films were character-driven first, all the way. Jackman's Wolverine could've tapped into all the Marvel pre-history laid down (And as James Logan Howlett, thank you, not Logan as last name, dammit). I don't mind the multi-character cram, but Ryan was wasted on the role (better to see him again in another Blade film as Hannibal King, no?). My wife liked it though acknowledged the flaws, while I had too many moments of "if only they'd..." but of course, they (Fox) didn't. So a B-minus at best here, probably a C-plus. I know I'll end watching it again reruns years down on the road on FX Channel, but Trek, Terminator, Potter will all likely be genius compared to this one. And don't get me started on the fuck-you-to-comics fans X3. From the offing of Scott early on, they pissed me off and made me sad for the franchise of films.
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Thanks much for this. Everything you said was spot on. I so wanted to like this movie but was seriously disappointed. The one good thing that came from thisa is Liev played victor awesome.
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As long as Fox continues to shit out an X-Men flick every couple of years and make sure the words "X-MEN" are in the title somehow. That's per the contractual agreement that lets them keep the rights, I imagine (and think I heard somewhere).
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Gavin Hood, go ROTH in HELL !
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Best review I've read, but I disagree on fun factor of the opening credits. Am I to believe that these Canadians citizens served the American military for two centuries??? That's D-U-M-B.
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I've had the workprint for a while and don't have the heart to double click it and waste time watching this shitfest. I have friends and a roommate who are going to see it tonight... but I will not be joining them. The sick thing is they'll probably end up saying, "durr, it's what I expect from a comic book movie".
If I hear that, fuck them. I'm putting my foot down... if I know that I have a 90% chance of hating a movie, there is no way that I'm wasting time or money going to see it.
Great review by the way, best one I've seen on this site in a long time. -
I'm almost toying with idea of going to see this today... hmmm?
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...that was the dumbest comment I have ever read! How can u applaud the review of a movie you have not/will not see? Duh! Trying living a life firsthand instead of through your friends/internet posts
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Just not in the mood... I'd have to do a shot of everclear before walking into the theater. If I want something that I can laugh maniacally at, I'll go dig up a rip of Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun Li
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It was not as bad as everyone went on about and Ill bet you my storm blow up doll Wolverine is not that bad either. This blind hate for fox is dumb. Every studio makes shitty movies. Hollywood in general makes shit flicks. Some said it was strange the massive hate for this movie before it even came out. I hope this isn't about fox news. That would be like being angry at Obama for what OJ Simpson did.
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When everything I have read about this movie screams epic fail, there's no way the assholes at Fox are getting a dime from me.
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This movie feels EXACTLY like the Wolverine comic. In fact, in terms of tone, its probably the most accurate comic movie to date. Wolvie, in his solo book, is a flat, violent, overpowered action piece with crappy supporting characters. Base a movie on a mediocre book, get a mediocre movie. What else were you expecting? Just add in another crap 'modern day' story featuring Wolverine's two estranged children and an unbreakable Katana (why does he need this?) and it'd be just like the Origins book.
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Someone else made this clear as well, but is HAS to be said again - existence of the strange or fantastical in a movie does not excuse poor quality. Also, there is a difference between actual reality and the reality of whatever you are watching/reading/listening to. So yes, there is a normality within the reality of the Marvel Universe that this movie completely shits on. There is a level of quality that this movie completely falls below, and NO, it shouldn't be excused because it's 'just a comic book movie'. We've had good enough movies based on comic books that we shouldn't even HAVE this uneducated point of view, still. There is no sliding scale of quality when it comes to movies, goddamn it. Stop grading movies on a fucking curve.
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It entertained me and was well written. Can we only enjoy reviews to shit we have seen? Get the fuck out of here.
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I have no idea what Mrs. Dupont actually looks like, but her writing alone makes her 100X more attractive than Script Tits. Great review.
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You must have read the book when it was mediocre, but it hasn't ALWAYS been like that. All of the major books have low points that we'd like to forget.
Also...unless the Origins book had Sabretooth as his fucking brother and Deadpool with laser eyes...
Christ, I just reminded myself that Liefeld created Deadpool. I just threw up in my mouth a little. We got the Liefeld version of a Wolverine movie. FUCK. -
He actually enjoyed it a helluva lot. And I dont think he knows who Deadpool is.
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time to quote bitching about Wolvie because this looks like the worst movie ever.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=56665658
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What kind of moron puts that much thought into a review of an obviously crappy film?
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deadpool was a tragedy...besides that the movie wasn't so bad- but like X3 too short and overstuffed...I'm hoping that unlike X3 there will be an extended version on dvd that will make it a better movie. Kinda like what happened w/FF and Daredevil, both waay better on dvd...
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COMPLETE WITH A "DECAPICATE" COMMAND.
shit.
They might as well let someone control him using a wireless Xbox 360 controller... Hell, I would find that more believable!!! Then they could tie it into the Wolverine Origins videogame and sell more copies of that! FFFFUUUUUCK! -
Let me know if that worked.
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Ahh, success!
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May 01, 2009 2:44:20 PM CDT
continuity error in bullet holes in wolverine's head?
by mike allegretto
When wolverine was x-rayed by professor xavier in X1 i don't believe the two holes caused by the adamantium bullets were shown.
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What would happen if Stryker misspelled a word?Or if he used slang..."Whack Logan"... wtf?
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and the script writers. And the lack of people in wHollyweird who don't know these genre properties front and back and are also fans.
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in X1 Wolverine had a huge laceration that covered the areas he was shot in this film. again, no holes in his skull from the bullets.
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-1990's X Men Wolverine
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Healing him, helping him to forget the painful memories? Isn't that how its supposed to work (in tandem with memory wipes/residual false implants from Weapon X program).
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crucial story and art design decisions. There are people here in TB's who work in the industry who would could probably conceptualize a more faithful, crowd-pleasing version. If you please the long time fans of a property with the characterizations, milieu and aesthetic, and get a solid director and writers and cinematographer to show the fans and the non-initiated what they didn't know that they needed, you'll have a recipe for success. And lack of studio interference would help, as well. And not having 20 c. Fox be that studio would really really help.
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To say this movie gets a pass because it had good action is the opinion of a plant or a total fucking moron. The movie had neither a good story nor good action. The action scenes were horribly choreographed unless you call ryan reynolds twirling a baton, that is supposed to be two katanas, and and doing wire work from 90's HK flicks as good.
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im talking Godzilla bad, (billy zane, not menace) phantom bad, the shadow bad. At least SPeed Racer was entertaining.
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do you contribute to Television Tropes & Idioms?
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Can't wait for Star Trek.
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In previous movies they showed the officers toasting each other with champagne. this was missing. also in previous flashbacks the lab techs were wearing elaborate suits. they were missing also.
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Very concise and well written.
Haven't seen the movie but have basically heard all the worst...and now I'm torn. I'm a giant comic nerd, LURVES me some X-Men, and the problem with SO MUCH happening is because they're trying to squeeze too much of Logan's history into one movie. 'Cause from the FedEx Fast Talker Recap (NICE, by the by)...that's pretty much a good description of what's happened in his past.
They're holding on to a LOT of the key points from Logan's actual continuity past ('Origins', fighting in the wars, Team X and even some of Morrison's Weapon Plus). They crammed so much in, though, it they've overloaded it. And the laughable (or so I've been told) script can't help matters either.
So I dunno...love Jackman as Wolverine, love Schreiber as an actor (and fellow comic nerd!...and he looks VERY similar to how Sabes was depicted in Teiri's 'Weapon X' book), and LOVE Reynolds being Deadpool soooo much IT MAKES MY BRAIN HURT!!
But how can I justify spending money (that I don't really have) on seeing something to which I love the source material and many actors involved so much when so many people are saying it's crap? -
May 01, 2009 2:58:45 PM CDT
for all you people coming from WOLVERINE saying "that sucked"
by six demon bag
you have no one to blame but yourselves
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Wait, is Eccleston Destro? Maybe the one reason to see this still, besides the surprising number of good actors (Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, Dennis Quaid). Looks nothing like a G.I. Joe movie, so far.
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They should've hired a worse actor to play Sabretooth cause Schreiber totally overshadows Jackman in this movie to the point that you want to root for the guy cause hes such a damn badass.
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its the kind of movie you won't even watch if its on tv at 3am and you're stoned out of your mind.
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Is 100 times worse than x-men 3!!! i am dead serious
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I had a terrible feeling in my gut that the workprint was the actual movie. Like the feeling you get from eating a taco at 4am and you have class in two hours feeling, like you have to take a good shit but your girlfriend is on her way over for some mind blowing sex. Fuck you Fox.
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theres a big diff between going to a film fresh and the outcome might be bad/good...with wolverine, there has been nothing but BAD reviews and word of mouth, snowballing since the workprint..Harry might not have seen it (i havent) but im sure hes gotten the gist of it (i have). NOT GOOD! further insult is that the studio (FOX) has blatantly lied and said this new (8th?) version is completely different, suckering millions of people into going. Hence, no free screening cause the fans wouldve called BS. I hope if Harry sees the film his review looks like this---"Sucked" he neednt waste anymore time on it and we should all thankfully move on to next week. praise Bale.
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Informative, snappy, and easy to read. Kudos for the flashback to your first impression of Jackman as Wolverine. It brought back the excitement of that first 'snikt'.
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"its the kind of movie you won't even watch if its on tv at 3am and you're stoned out of your mind." perfectly sums up what this movie is...no need to go into detail....it's crap
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but the big-titted hottie latina I work with wanted to see it at midnight. The movie is obviously flawed, but I don't want my $12 back or anything. And no, she didn't fall for the dick in the popcorn trick.
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Except instead of your girlfriend, it's a super hot girl whose number you got a few nights ago, and who is coming over to your place for the first time to "watch a movie".
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the real reason of the release of the workprint was liability. they knew that the movie would fail and needed a "fallguy". this was why the workprint was released, so they could point their fingers at the internet and say "this is why noone saw the movie. they OBVIOUSLY all saw the pirated workprint."
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Good thing that cop in X2 didn't make it into one of those holes. Wolverine would have woke up not knowing who anyone was. Then he'd have to cry and go to Japan.
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what happened to them? aren't they at risk of being dislodged and further shredding logan's brain every time he takes a hard hit?
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You could have fired up your 360, thrown in a jump drive, and had your latina hottie join you on your big comfy couch/bed/etc, with a bottle of Patron. Hopefully this happened anyway, but at least that way you could have gotten away with only seeing the first 10 minutes of the movie...
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you know i never thought of it. But remember in x1 when they look at the x-ray. shouldn't there be holes in his skeleton. I mean adamantium covered bones would not heal right? Who in there right might thought that shooting him in the head was a better way to lose his memories then the way it is done in the comic. God this movie sucks.
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Thought it was better than X3 and on par with the latest Hulk.
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yes now die..BALE commands it
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i posted that thought too a few posts back. there are at least a dozen continuity errors brought up by the shooting. fragments, the holes, did they heal up with regular bone, why werent they on the x-ray in X1.
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Listen to what you just said on par. The problem is this film should have been Epic. I mean how do you fuck up this movie. It's all right there for you. There are a hundred other films that follow the same type of story and do it better.
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Don't worry, a couple of poops over at SuperHeroHype thought it was "da koolz" or something similar.
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"...the whole thing feels like a Canadian "Battle for the Planet of the Apes". So it's good then? I'm checking it out this weekend.
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May 01, 2009 3:43:00 PM CDT
They were in Africa looking for Vibranium, not Adamantium
by chickentonight3
Adamantium being an alloy trying to artificially reproduce the strength properties of Vibranium, the rare metal from a meteor in the small African nation of Wakanda, home and kingdom of the Black Panther. That was one comic reference in the movie that I kinda enjoyed, even if it was fleeting. Marvel Studios apparently retains the rights to a Black Panther film.
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Seen the movie twice now and both times it was entertaining. Is it a masterpiece? No, but it's what I wanted it to be, which was NOT BORING for 90 minutes. And I don't give a rat's ass about the comic origins or stories, so none of that bothered me either time. These higher than thou internet critics need to sit back and reassess some shit. Stop attacking a movie because it's from Fox or isn't Singer's X2. He did also direct SUPERMAN RETURNS. Not exactly a shining moment.
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Look like one of the best super hero movies ever made. I never thought i'd say that! Although i do have a soft spot for Superman Returns despite its faults.
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Lamer than Rene Zellweger's "British accent"!
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Would it be better than the Dark Knight which was 45 fuckin minutes too long...Like "No one could take the place of Liev Schrieber as Sabertooth!!!!"
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he makes a direct statement in the movie that he IS canadian. Strayker says to him "do it for your country". Logan replies curtly "i'm canadian".
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You know full and well that's not why people love the dark knight. stop being a dick. This movie would still shit no matter who was in it, and died.
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It's a fucking joke...the reason everyone loved the Dark Knight was Eric Roberts...
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I thought that one had the best slam-bang action of the 3. I don't go to a superhero movie for deep character development I wanna see some super MoFo's fuck some shit up, hopefully each other. Singer's X-Men movies are as overrated as Beyond Good & Evil, shit-ass sneaky-sneak bullshit...
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Hey i love Eric Roberts.
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As do i...in the end Fox fucked us, plain and simple.
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WTF? Superman Returns was fucking the Godfather compared to this sack of shit. At least Singer tried. This film shows a lack of effort from anybody. I couldn't care less about the continuity or shit. Hell, I'll even say story is not really essential, but even the action sequences were EXTREMELY DATED AND DULL! If you found this moving so entertaining as to see it twice, well then good for you, but the overwhelming number of both critics and fans who have panned this movie trumps your one opinion and makes it almost ridiculous. Your title by "CALM THE FUCK DOWN!" because this movie sucks means what? People shouldn't bash a shitty movie? So it didn't bore you during the entire 90 minute run? I'm sorry I can't be fascinated by a steaming pile of Rothman shit for ninety minutes. Some of us have standards.
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That clenchy-jawed loser was a riot.
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ended up having a correspondent post a needless review the wp is the final cut, except for finished effects and music...and an addon ending couldve saved alot of time on this review with one sentence....THEY FUCKED THE WHOLE THING UP
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Was it ever released??? I only thought it premiered on TNT and straight to DVD...
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"I watched Fozzie Bear drive a real live car down a real live road 30 years ago in "The Muppet Movie." Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet?"--Best line from a review this year, lol
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after x2, which did indeed have both character development and a cohesive storyline, people were expecting much more from x3 what they got was a ratt special check your brain at the door, and you will have a good time....shouldve been much more than that
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My Tums!!!! They cut of my fuckin tums!!!!!
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X3 get's hate because coming off the promise made at the end of x3. It should have only got better. But instead fox rushed at we got weak sauce. While not the worst movie ever, it has alot of issues.
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But the trailers have looked like yawn inducing, generic crap, so I just haven't been excited about it. Could I finally be--gasp--outgrowing this type of film? Please God, tell me I'm still a geek!!
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You resigned, loudly and publicly from this site... YET YOU KEEP INFLICTING YOURSELF UPON US! I'm so sorry that the rest of the slackers you work with at Burger King refuse to listen to your piffle, but that is NO reason to take it out on the rest of us. For the fourth time at least, I quote DESTROYO from The Tick: "CONFOUND YOU, YOU IRRITATING WOMAN!!! DO YOUR PRATTLINGS NEVER CEASE!?!?!" Now, go make the fries, your break is over.
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May 01, 2009 4:04:54 PM CDT
I was saying Superman Returns was great compared to this shit!
by albino_ewok
Sokitome. I wasn't saying wolverine was better, quite the opposite in fact.
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bet when you were a toddler, your parents handed you a pot and spoon for an xmas gift
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as drawn in the origin story, the bone claws are not gnarly...but sharp it was during the arc where magneto removed the adamantium from wolvie where his bone claws are twisted and gnarly...readers got the impression that the adamantium and excraction did a serious number on the appearance of the bone claws
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Spy Kids running around with those fuckin suits on
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I was saying the same thing. I was responding to vwantsrevenge critique of bryan singer. I totally agree with superman returns being better than wolverine, which isn't saying much...lol
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May 01, 2009 4:14:50 PM CDT
That's exactly how I would imagine a telemarketer would speak.
by rbatty024
Who knew.
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GI JOE looks so bad. and not in the bad ass kind of way. Who the fuck would green light that shit. It can go 2 ways. So ridiculous it's awesome or so ridiculous it's hurts your eyes too look at it. I am thinking the latter.
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May 01, 2009 4:29:31 PM CDT
Wolverine should be one of those benchmark films like...
by industrykiller!
Pearl Harbor. If you meet someone one the streets who likes it you immediately know you are dealing with someone who you shouldnt care to know. Morons defending this please go away. As far as talkbackers go you are beneath contempt and active in the total ruination of comic book films as a genre. If you DON'T WANT character development in your comic films then it indicative of a greater flaw in your character and probably of an overall stupidity. Just accept that as a fact, whether your tiny brain and comprehend it or not, and just get the fuck out of here.
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I think it's going to be on a par with the OSI agents we saw in this past season of Venture Brothers (Shore Leave & Mile High)... Only gayer, if such a thing is possible.
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I'm starting to think that GI JOE is an easy target for fanboys. The trailer may not be the best, but it looks like fun. Not the ideal GI Joe but at least it feels like they have something going with it, unlike Wolverine.
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Although I'm glad to hear that Jackman and Liev are trying. Between this and Babylon AD, it makes it hard to imagine many other well-regarded foreign directors will take the bait on a big Fox blockbuster deal, thank merciful heavens. If this does tank, I hope Hood comes out with his story the way that Mathieu Kassovitz did, just as a bridge-burning cautionary tale to others...
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yeah it has Sienna Miller's and Rachel Nichol's tits...
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the bone claws got twisted and gnarled after Cyber snaped them off.
They grew back twisted and slowly because his healing factor was on the fritz from having his metal ripped out of him by magento -
I mean, gasp
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I don't get why they hire hollywood script writers to try and interpret comic books, wouldn't these studios have better luck just hiring the comic book writers for these movies? seriously, they'd turn out soo much fucking better.
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Trust me. Both actors have a natural charisma typically so I can see how Alexandra may have felt otherwise but here they are as wooden as popsicle sticks. Jackman isnt even playing WOlverine in this movie, he's just.....some guy....or something. He's not really playing anything. He just floats through the movie sort of guided by the actions of others. Schreiber on the other hand is both hammy and too generic to be playing Sabertooth. He just Liev Schreiber is a dickhead. he's not ferocious or dangerous he's just kind of a douche bag, but a really hammy douche bag. It's the worst screen performance of his career easily.
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Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet? BWahahahahahahahahahaha!
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I've written a keyboard macro so I only have to press Ctl-D to Decapitate.
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Once again I'll say that the hatred for this movie has been overblown. I saw it, and Liev as Sabretooth is just incredible, as is the guy playing Gambit. The movie is way too busy, with a ton of cheesy shots and dialogue. Also, the anti-wolverine bullets were stupid as hell. The thing had major problems and sets up sequels poorly, but it isn't an abomination to be avoided at all costs.
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this time rather than trying to say they were her circle of friends. It's still extremely obvious that those are your own words being credited to made up people, but at least it's more plausible than your circle of friends being a ridiculously diverse group that conveniently spans all social tiers. For example, the last time I went to the movies, I went with my co-workers. Another time, I went with my best friend and a co-worker. I have never gone to the movies however, with; The executive VP of Toys R Us, a retired Admiral, a book cover designer, a cinematographer from the porn industry, a Dairy Queen employee and a gravedigger.
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one was black, one latino, one chinese, one japanese, one was arab, and the 6th was an exactly equal mix of the previous 5 races.
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Pretty good group, otherwise.
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May 01, 2009 5:21:53 PM CDT
And you'd be lying if you said you DIDN'T watch the download
by professor_monster
EVERY SINGLE person who writes for AICN downloaded that movie - and if you didn't, you are not real journalists.
Okay - maybe the ladder. -
May 01, 2009 5:24:40 PM CDT
"comic book writers need to start writing these movies..."
by professor_monster
Worked out so well for Frank Miller. Comic book writers can't write for film - two different mediums. Hell, screenwriters can't write for film either - and this is because every single person on the movie has more creative control than they do - execs, director, studio heads, actors - people who blame the writers really have NO IDEA how movies are made.
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Well, at least I do. You should definitely write more for this site.. save it from mediocricy
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I'm still pissed about Australia. Just Awful. He has such potential, but he just does such crap movies.
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That's a bad example, because Frank Miller can't write comics either. His writing has been terrible from square one, it was an emperor has no clothes thing. Yes, even Dark Knight Returns was terrible. The only reason it was such a sensation was because it was dark and gritty when people weren't used to comics being dark and gritty. Having hookers, cursing and over the top violence doesn't equal good writing, just sensational writing. Frank Miller's writing is precisely equivalent to the writing of a 13 year old boy. My old notebooks from junior high are full of Frank Miller quality stories.
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well then the comic writers should at least provide the general ideas and stories for the films, rather then leaving up to half-ass studio screenwriters.
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is fantastic writing. Probably the best Miller ever did and one of the best Batman stories ever. Don't underestimate him.
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There´s sure a lot of talent needed to make a 150 million dollar production look and fell worse than most of the DTV-shit coming out. Hell, even Uwe Boll could have shot something like that crap in his backyard! Another poor movie based on a cool comic (like F4) and another ruined franchise (see Alien vs. Predator). Great way to go!
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...after reading the reviews, am kinda glad I didn't bother with the bandwidth. Perhaps the question that should have been asked here is, "After 'Wolverine,' should film piracy be encouraged?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/01/wolverine.movie.piracy/index.html
Don't get me wrong, I've dl'd a few movies before they came out but did not watch because I wanted to see them on the bigscreen. "The Dark Knight" is a good example. I could have watched it a few? weeks before it premiered, but from everything I read, it sounded like it deserved to be viewed properly. It did not let me down.
This pos, sounds like a typical watered down, "let's make as much money off the loyalists as we can before they find out how bad it is" movie and that's not acceptable. -
without a doubt Miller's most restrained work.
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If you've got the patience, stuck around until after the credit is rolled. "Bernice Ilg" pops up as a Japanese waitress (I believe she's half Czech half Japanese) serving Logan shots to "remember" his past. She might have the choice to be the next Jennifer Garnier for Vancouverites.
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If you've got the patience, stuck around until after the credit is rolled. "Bernice Ilg" pops up as a Japanese waitress (I believe she's half Czech half Japanese) serving Logan shots to "remember" his past. She might have the choice to be the next Jennifer Garnier for Vancouverites.
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There are plenty of well-known comic book writers who write for TV shows like LOST, and for animated shows. Not a great leap.
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You know the comic greats: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Daredevil, Howard the Duck, at what point do they dive in the shitter? Are they doomed from the start with a bad script, is the production half-assed, does the director deserve the ultimate blame? There's really nothing else out there this weekend, Wolverine will make bank on the bored and curious no matter what all these clever critics say. It's all just filler to sell concession until Star Trek comes along anyway.
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Thank god at least Sam Jackson didn't turn up as Nick Fury at the end, at least Marvel's got the sense not to taint their other golden properties.
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Miss your reviews. Are you gonna do one for "THE IMAGINARIUM OF DOCTOR PARNASSUS?" Would love to hear your take on that.
Excellent point by point examination.
Thank you… -
"I watched Fozzie Bear drive a real live car down a real live road 30 years ago in "The Muppet Movie." Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet?" - just a great bit of writing there!! I too watched Wolverine and was left feeling 'Why did I bother?' The story just seems non-existant. It's just Logan going from one event to the other with little in the way of a purpose. A big disappointment.
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Wolvie and Wraith go looking for Gambit and find him in the first bar they walk into! Surely having escaped the Island Gambit would be keeping a low profile so he wouldn't be recaptured/silenced? No he's found at the poker table doing his magic mutant card tricks, wtf! Then Sabretooth for some unkown reason is hanging about outside next to the trash cans! Um why? How'd he get there, how'd he know wolvie had gone there looking? And why after being knocked out by Wolvie did Gambit then feel the need to climb onto a rooftop and jump down into the fight, couldn't help but think he should have taken the opportunity to fuck off! Oh and another bit I hated was why did we have Stryker informing Wolverine on what he was planning to do with him after he had him all strapped up in the water tank? Can't help but think he should have asked these questions first! Dumb and stupid, it's little things like these I hate the most.
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"Is there a particular reason that Hugh Jackman is denied the privileges afforded a Muppet?"I tip my hat to you, miss.
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"Seriously, who in the hell watches a film where mutants deflect bullets with swords and have alloy infused into their bones and then whines about plot holes and logical missteps?"
Every time I read this particular piece of "reasoning", I'm reminded that exactly half the world's population have an IQ at or below 100. -
Having Wolverine do that in "X-Men" was a total fuck-up on Singer's part DuPont, not a positive. Singer is a hack who has absolutely no understanding of superhero comics. And I can't believe all of you fuckers paid money to see this latest Fox travesty. You fucking chumps. You knew it was going to be awful, yet you handed Fox your money anyway, just so you could see your beloved Wolverine on screen one more time, you fucking weak-willed fanboy pussies. Keep paying to see this garbage and these studios will keep pumping this shit out, you goddamned idiots. They only thing the studios respond to is box office. You got the Wolverine movie you deserved. Stop paying to see these shitty fucking superhero movies! A nation of retards...
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and I thought the movie was enjoyable and entertaining and nowhere near the crapfest that people here are whining about. The people I went with enjoyed it and the people in the theatre enjoyed it judging from reactions at key times. I enjoyed it WAY more than that pretentious overly self-aware movie called "The Watchmen". But then, The Watchmen was never a favorite of mine. I was into Miller's Dark Knight, Arkham Asylum and all the Wolverine stuff when it came out. I always liked Rorschach (sp), he was interesting but really, Watchmen was a story pretty much about unlikable people. So back to the Wolverine movie. They took some elements from the Marvel origin story, elements from Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X. I think they did a good job of humanizing Logan making him want the everyman life with a wife and kids. I think that element adds to his melancholy, and Logan certainly can be that in the comics; it's almost as though the melancholy at times fuels the rage and anger along with the lack of recollection especially knowing at one time he probably had a life. And now we have a reason and I can appreciate that. I liked the twist of Silverfox and Victor working with Stryker. I didn't think the adamantium bullet was lame. The bullet can pierce his adamantium skull and scramble his brains. It seems his brain can heal from some amounts of trauma and some it can't, it was a plot point that didn't phase me. After all. I've been reading these comics for a long long long time and, well, it's just superhero stuff, so I can believe it. People get trauma amnesia for different reasons. I always thought that Logan was created to kill other mutants, I had that feeling way way back before the movies were ever introduced. Oh, and not being a Deadpool fan, I can't really comment on that. Deadpool always annoyed the crap out of me although I did try to read those comics.
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even x2, so i am not suprised by this crap.
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Which is a cynical, paint by numbers, overly simplistic take on Batman.
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This review hit the nail on the head! Stay home, wait for the cable airings and hope that they reboot X-Men! The packed afternoon audience seem less than thrilled too!
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The TWIST of Fox working with Stryker??? You mean the unearned bullshit obvious Hollywood cliche??? Wow I cant believe there are people out there who just cannot discern quality from obvious garbage. They must be born without a certain gene or something.
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So I can forget this cowpie of a movie.
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Face it, the movie will make a shitload of money from the casual-i didnt know who the hell Deadpool was before the movie-fans to ensure another turn. Thats the Fox way these days.
The sad thing, the Fox suits dont even realize that a decent or, dare we say, excellent movie would bring even more money (as in legacy collection). Truly sad... -
basically, and obviously what you think means little to me. Many people on this website are notorious haters. And perhaps once in awhile you guys have a collective opinion that is close to correct, but it's like the boys who cried wolf. It's hard to separate the truth from the constant hateful spew which taints an opinion that may actually be true. I enjoyed Wolverine. I didn't like it as much as I loved Iron Man (which I liked more than TDK)but then, I've never been a mainstream kinda gal. I've never followed the pack and I've always been one for making up my own mind.
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please read allykatD's post, for he is what is wrong with the marvel fanboy during the 90s, marvel put out all kinds of shit, lacking in logic and continuity...but the fanboys didnt seem to care, cuz it all came with pretty pictures, blood, guts and t&a we arent in the 90s anymore, and most of those fanboys have grown up...and most (except for those like allykatD, would care for a little more substance) so when a character gets knocked the fuck out, they are a little bit miffed when that same character is seen jumping from rooftops 30 seconds later when a character sends another to kill an industructable man, they dont expect him not to use...THE FUCKING ADAMANTIUM BULLETS THAT HE HAS JUST FOR THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE when you have been provided flashbacks from other movies that apparently show a horrific operation that has caused the person experiencing it such trauma that he has blocked the entire incident from his mind, you dont expect that operation to become wussified and have nothing to do with the characters amnesia i could go on, but what is the point...except to say that comic and movie fans have the right to a little bit of internal logic and continuity
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great review, fuck it was more entertaining than sitting down in a cinema like i did last night to watch rothcock and co somehow fuck up weapon x and origins story, when will fox ever learn you cannot make good marvel films, period!!!!
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i agree bacci40, when stryker said his speech about what the bullets would do to that doctor i think most of the people in the cinema including myself nearly threw up with laughter, i can see that scene being put on youtube for comedy value.
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Ya know, its very easy to criticise. How fuckin dare you even compare X3 to Wolverine! X3 was a fuckin abomination that killed off the most important characters in the franchise. Fair enough the Wolverine film didn`t stay too close to the original story, but guess what... Its a fuckin ADAPTION. Not a fuckin religious depiction like Watchmen (And by the way how did that turn out?) You should be happy that this film ever got the chance to be made after what X-Men 3 did. Its not that bad! Sure, it might have a few cliched lines, or not the best in-depth character development (Deadpool was treated really badly), but fuckin hell like, where do you get off criticising the hard work of a dedicated team of writers,actors, etc? Fuckin be grateful that Superhero movies are being taken as a serious thing these days, they may be hit and miss, but regardless, wouldn`t you rather they were tried rather than not bothered about in the first place. Wise up and stop rippin everything to shit for once.
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May 01, 2009 8:59:14 PM CDT
I got shot in the head with an adamantium bullet once
by joker gordon levitt
...i think.
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He should be sodomized with adamantium claws
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It falls much closer to your 7 year old sensibilities (just like the word "hater"). I could have told you that.
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and come to your fucking senses. We dont OWE Hollywood gratitude just for making a film with the title Wolverine. It maimed everything I love about the character and I should be THANKFUL for that??!! And adaptation my ass, it doesnt even resemble what makes the character work. Thats not an adaptation, its a sick cash grab. I see we've entered a new phase of apologizing now that the corporate apologists have shown up. Disgusting.
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not a guy... and I'm not really an X-Men fan. They're okay. I've always been a Wolverine fan. The others irritate me except for Gambit and Nightcrawler. I'm female so the whole T&A in comics actually bores me, so you're off the mark on that. The the real deal is this: I make up my own mind on what I like and won't have my opinion dictated to me by a bunch of people who talk like they're suffering from a lifetime of bad hair days. However, the insults on my intelligence were expected. It's business as usual for the AICN talkbacks. It's always been like that here. If your opinion deviates from the norm, you're a moron/idiot/stupid ass etc.... Yeah yeah. Got that. Whatever. So, moving beyond the insults, was Wolverine a perfect movie? No. Was it a masterpiece of comic book to film perfection? No. (I save Iron Man for that award) Did it have some logic problems. Sure. But I found it entertaining *enough* that it was worth my time and the 7.50 matinee ticket. I go into a movie for one purpose: to be entertained. Example: Schindler's List was NOT entertaining. How could anyone be entertained by a movie about the holocaust? The acting was stellar, the writing fantastic, but not entertaining. And BTW, Bacci40, I think you're ranting diatribe on 'fanboys' is bullshit. But hey, this is AICN talkback, so I can say that.
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think the fox people did to man and look what happerned....they came up with wolverine and i never criticise a movie unless its shite which by fact and the fox proven record is man, infact compare wolverine to a good marvel movie like iron man and ull see what i mean, wolverine should of been awesome and brutal instead its was a limp dick tryna fit in a small hole so tell me whats the point of a shit film made that ill try to forget about 24 hours later?????
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So, you are saying the LADDER is a real journalist? WTF !!!
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Get off your fuckin high horse and wise up. Why don`t you go and make a better Wolverine film? I`m not sympathising with FOX (Of all fuckin companies). I`m merely pointing out that not everybody has to be a fuckin sheep and say "Oh, I can`t believe they did that, thats not what I would`ve done" Grow up and just like it for what it is, the comics will ALWAYS be there when you want to go back to read them. This is one interpretation, maybe not the most dead-on depiction, but atleast it`s out there for fans who want to see some live action version.
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I saw the movie and am playing the game. While I am upset with the raping of Deadpool and some of the direction of the movie, it was a decent movie if you toss the comic history away. I also do a weekly podcast on movies, games, etc at http://logansrun.libsyn.com or search iTunes for Logan's Run The Podcast. I just uploaded the newest episode, where I review the movie and the Wolverine video game, plus some other gaming news. Help me out with some feedback on the podcast please. Thanks
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Absolutely brilliant.
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If you are going to put allykatD in the moron category, go ahead and put yourself in the ASSHOLE category. To be more precise, the POMPOUS ASSHOLE only my opinion counts category!!!
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Cool, concise, and well-written. What the fuck are you doing here?
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When did it become common knowledge that Alexandra du Pont is a guy? Any facts to back up this claim? I've always read that it was Alexandra or Miss duPont.
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the way I do, Alexandra. Case in point:www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/39576#comment_2424444Then again, instead of my prediction being correct,maybe you noticed it before the fact and reappeared exactly then(now)simply to amuse/toy with me. God knows it wouldn't be the first time.That said, I believe I'll hold off on reading your review until I see the movie Sunday or Monday evening. So, are you ever going to leap across the chasm of your reticence and become a professional film critic, or are you still doofing around with that comic book endeavor? Do tell.
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May 01, 2009 10:17:06 PM CDT
My Mom & Brother Clapped @ The End. BTW, Stay 4 The Credits
by media messiah
I was luke warm on the movie, which felt like the X-Men trying to be The Matrix...which has been a problem throughout the X-Men franchise. I was pleased though, that the film taps heavily into X-Men lore. I won't spoil the film, but there are some sweet surprises that tie the story arc in with the other X-Men films, and very heavily so!
Lastly, there are two clips of extra footage at the end of the film. One about 30 seconds into the credits, that is so, so...and the other, simply wowed those in the audience who were smart enough to stay and watch the end credits. Only 10 percent of the audience I saw the film with did, and they were pretty happy with what they saw!!! -
Quit the sensitivity and Make a real argument or fall by the wayside
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The last time you posted an article, one that I recall...it was your review of The Watchmen. Thanks to my dyslexia and very bad eyes (I have a very rare eye disease--1 in 20,000), I misread your words, due to a cursory read of your work, by me, and I criticized your efforts, in part, with a false assumption about your political views. I was wrong, and I apologize. You are a great writer and thinker, and a tremendous asset to AICN.com; simply put, you are the best writer they have, pro-magazine quality, and they have some very good writers. Sorry again for my misinterpretation last time. Take care.--MM
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The film was produced primarily for entertainment purposes, with an obvious general audience target in mind. The film wasn't made to appease the sensibilities of fan-boys and comic book purists. This is the basic problem with the Fox approach, reaching a broad audience-that did not give a shit about Deadpool in the first place- by any means necesary...
BTW Fuck Rothman -
Wolverine bores the fuck out of me now. What a silly, unnecessary, self-involved, humorless douchebag. At the urging of my roommate, I even read "Origin," the graphic novel that some of this movie is hopefully based upon, and was left shaking my head.
Wolverine just isn't that cool. He's one-dimensional, impervious to all real drama, and just silly.
I'm sure "Wolverine: Whatever It's Called" will make lots of money off geeks and breeders, but I'm going to skip it. -
There were only 3 of us that stayed til the very end when I saw Wolverine. I've read of different endings and wondered if what was said after the credits was true or not. But not knowing the history of the X-Men I was wondering.... Where do you live? Is it possible that different parts of the country (world) had different clips at the end? Like you, I don't want to spoil it for others. Maybe some other time we can discuss it.
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although when I saw it today, I'd lowered my expectations dramatically and simply saw it for what it was; a decent early afternoon distraction. I actually argee with Devin's CHUD review; first 20 mins or so were pretty good, then it jut got cheesy and silly...but I was mildy entertained. I never gave a fuck about Deadpool; alwys kinda liked the DC comics variation better ( the dude who fought the Teen Titans all the time). It just stuck me as being a lazy way to give then a Boss to fight at the end. I would have rather seen the 80's Wolvie miniseries on film myself, but guess what? they didn't make it, maybe they will, based on what some folks are seeing in their screening. ( I saw apparently saw the rarest version...Deadpool digging up from under the reactor tower and claiming his head; which then goes "shhhh" to the audience.) But DuPont is right on; I just stopped caring about Fox quality after X3, and just learned to enjoy th film for what it is. Thought some of the action was solid (chooper battle), though next time a watched it, I'd play a drinking game regarding how many tmes Logan and Victor squared off and took a run at each other. Theater I saw it in laughed at the good jokes, were silent on the bad ones, probably had little to no idea about the geek issues, and at the end, most people were saying thy enjoyed it. It's X Men diluted for the masses, folks; unless the rights go back to Marvel, it will be this way, and you can do fuck all about it. Either protest with your dollars (or lack thereof) or wait for Iron Man 2 and the promised Marvel flicks. There's whree you get what you want. And actually, the better this movie does, the more studios in general will take a chance on getting the flicks you want to see done right. As long as the superheros genre in general keeps doing well, Marvel, Warners, et al can make decent flicks. Fox is diseased cock on toast, sure, but sucessful Wolverine begets more money in Iron Man 2's budget. I know, not the same studio, but they're all watching each other's success/failures, and That's how it is. Just hope they get made at studios who respect story and talent.
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This is why people snicker and laugh at you nerds and geeks. Get a life bro. It's just a movie based on a comic. It's truly not that serious. If you morons want something more true to your geekdom, why don't you all get together and put your money together and try to make something better. If not shut the fuck up and go get some pussy.
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Or as I like to call it, the Twilight Zone.
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You've obviously missed the point of talkbacks, and of this site, in general. But that doesn't surprise me, because you sound like an absolute moron. This isn't high school in the 1980's. People no longer give a shit what other people are into, nor do they laugh and snicker at others.
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for not trashing you some more over your terrible watchmen review, lol, but this review was pretty funny.
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This bitch is annoying as fuck.And you're not funny. Please join your twin sister Script Girl, and see your flat, talentless ass out the door.
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Why do you feel the need to be so patronising? Like mentioning a German word & giving a link to wikipedia so the normal people can understand it. You do that kind of thing a lot.
Notr to mention the fact that the word has a perfectly well known English version, so there's no reason to use the German. It's like "Look at me everybody, I know a German word. I'll teach you what it means."
Oh & Wolverine's name wasn't Jimmy Logan in the movie. But feel free to conduct interviews with your crack addict porn star friends. & the Lesbian film-maker! Or whatever the fuck she is.
Yours sincerely, Dark Shite. Heterosexual TB'er. -
Same thing that always goes on here: Herd-think.
Combined with internet Nerd-Think, which is "my opinion is exactly the same as everyone else's except I am snarkier and pithier and must demonstrate it with the kind of humor Generation Dumb licks up off the bottom of their bowl (where's my Thesaurus?)"
Combined with a truly bad movie, that, deny it or not, perfectly captures a really bad group of Marvel Comics characters.
At least I think that's what's going on here.
WOLVERINE will still make more money than WATCHMEN and be less of a poke-you-in-the-eye-see-if-you-like-it experience than DAWSON'S TREK. -
Is it someone who makes Lesbian films, specifically for Lesbians?
Or someone who makes standard films but feels the need to constantly remind people that she spends her free time way down in Wookie town?
Or both? Please tell me Alexandra, I'm so confused. Maybe because I don't move in the kinda circles where people shit on a toothbrush & sell it as a masterpiece.
Yours sincerely, The Dark Knight. Heterosexual Tb'er, Ladies man. -
May 02, 2009 1:37:34 AM CDT
Oneragga Wolverine doing well is NOT good for comic films
by industrykiller!
Comic book films already proved their financial prowess long ago, and especially last year with Dark Knight and Iron man, NONE of that is in question. What is ALWAYS in question is what content people want from their summer action films and the more money films like Wolverine make the less likely a studio is to take a chance on a Dark Knight or think its some kind of anomaly. I'm not trying to blast you, but "taking it for what it is" hurts films. If audiences speak with their wallets, Hollywood will ALWAYS follow the money.
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alexandra delivers the best review. Does she have her own website? Damn This girl can write. She's the best reviewer on this site, hands down.
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Keeping in mind that a) I was a total X-Men n00b back then; and b) the last major comic movie prior to that was Batman and Robin, as many of you remember...as I walked on home from the theater I kept thinking back to that opening scene with young Eric Lensherr/Magneto in the concentration camp and couldn't stop wondering about all the myriad ways in which Joel Schumacher would've completely fucked that up. Not that I plan on seeing this movie, of course, but I guess now we don't have to wonder anymore.
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Wolverine is a "silly, unnecessary, self-involved, humorless douchebag" and "one-dimensional, impervious to all real drama, and just silly"? You said you read 'Origin'...have you ever read anything else? He's one of the most complex, conflicted characters I've seen next the 'Goddamned Batman' (TM Frank Miller). He's been to one end of the human spectrum and back, as a wild, savage berserker and noble samurai, a loner who longs for human connection he knows he doesn't deserve and a trusted teammate who puts himself in the line of fire for his friends, a teacher and mentor for the children of tommorrow and a cold-blooded killer who hates himself for doing what he knows no one else will. I say this as a complete comic nerd, and one that actually hates his overexposure and the fact he stars in 8-10 comics a month; but one can't deny, he's an incredibly complex character.
Geeks and BREEDERS? What the hell does that even mean? -
She isn't so great. Kinda standard actually. Average reviewing, averagely written. Nothing too fancy, although she obviously enjoys being the genius of AICN, the big fish in a small gene pool, & has let it go to her head a bit, hence the patronising links & explanations she gives.
Truth is, she just looks good compared to the rest of the writers on this site.
Because she can spell. -
SHUMACHERED ! what a crap film, they could have just adapted the original miller mini series and would have had a 500 millions + blockbuster, even rated PG-13. MORONS.
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Unfortunately I think he is unnecessarily complex. So much so that he just shreds any sense of suspension of disbelief and makes no sense at all anymore.
He is as as mutant born in 1845 to a rich family who turns out to be immortal; fought in WWI, WWII, Korea and even Viet Nam apparently; trained as a Samurai and a ninja; is a master of martial arts; became a spy for a super-team called Weapon X; had adamantium bonded on his bones and claws (bone claws I might remind you); became a savage, wild animal in the woods of the Canada; becomes a spy and super-hero for Canada; then joins the X-Men where he regains his humanity; then joins the Avengers; happens to have a son who has the same powers as him and and happens to be having a feud with another feral, immortal mutant who may or may not be his half brother.
Talk about overkill. Wolverine is literally has more life experience than Batman, Captain America, Nick Fury, the Punisher, Daredevil, Shang-Chi, Jonah Hex, Tarzan and James Bond all put together. -
FRIDAY 10 PM UPDATE: Sources tell me that Fox's X-Men Origins: Wolverine had a stunning $35 million debut Friday thanks in part to the studio's widest release ever into 4,099 theaters. That number includes the $5 million midnight shows at 2,000 venues.) It's now possible for the franchise prequel to scoop up $90M this weekend if moviegoing stays strong, though a safer bet might be $85M.
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Like you said...he has had a VERY long life. I've only lived 27 years, and I've had a HELL of a lot of shit happen to me, and gone through many different 'phases' where I've believed one thing or another. Imagine having OVER 100 YEARS!! I try to wrap my head around it sometimes...and I just can't. So I can understand why the man has had so much happen in his life.
BUT! He is a fictional character after all, and a large part of how he 'acts' or what his 'history' (or what parts of said history are applicalbe) is based solely on who might be writing him at any given time (comic writers, cartoon scripters or movie types just as a few examples). So any claims I make can be taken with multiple grains of salt.
But I do hear what you're saying. I'll say...it's multiple writers dealing with the same character in whatever way they see fit (continuity be damned or not). And I'll admit; too many cooks spoil the broth. -
My problem with Wolverine's long life is that it just makes him ridiculous of character. He outdoes every super-hero out - some heroes are immortal, some heroes are experts in martial arts or have skills, some heroes have been in war and have been skilled soldiers, some heroes have been or are spies, some heroes are mutants, and some heroes have been altered. Everything has happened to him! They literally threw in the kitchen sink with him.
IMO the entire 100+ years old thing is such a drawback for his character, and as the years past it will become an even greater drawback that makes him even more ridiculous. Originally he was intended to be older than the other X-Men; then he was intended by Byrne and Claremont to have been a WWII vet (which at that time was only about 35 years ago so he would have been in his 50s), then someone said "hey, he should of fought in WWI"; then someone else said "Wouldn't it be cool if he fought in the Spanish American War or even the Civil War"; until finally someone said "Hey lets say he was born in 1845 so he is over 150 years old now! Wouldn’t that be cool?”
The other problem is by saying he is involved in these historical events means that as Marvel’s sliding time scale goes on, and the years pass and other characters maybe only age a year or two, Wolverine will progressively get older. In a years Spider-Man might be only 27, but Wolverine will be 164 years old, and in 10 years Spider-Man might be 28 but Wolverine will be 174 years old.
And yet here is a character with not nearly the maturity or level headiness of his age. I would imagine that a 174 year old man would finally put his demons to rest or figure out how to operate, but Wolverine is still the same rough and tumble jerk who once in awhile loses himself to his berserk rage. And yeah, you could argue he has lack of self-control because of the memory loss, but than wouldn’t he also loose all of his skills he has gathered over the years? He seems to still possess nearly every damn skill under the sun (save for self-control).
The thing is, I don’t dislike Wolverine. I loved him as a kid, but as more and more writers added things to his past he turned into this Christmas tree with too many ornaments – the branches sag and it just looks clustered and ugly now. I was hoping that at least the Wolverine movie would do what Nolan did with Batman and exorcise a lot of the excess from the character and just focus on the essential elements, but apparently that was not the case.
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Fine by me, as long as it didn't start a flood of gay men movies.
I get your point about Liam Neeson in Taken, but I wouldn't wanna see Liam Neeson in Taken 2: Right up the arse. -
Well said. And yes, Marvel's 'comic dog years' as I like to think of it is getting more and more ridiculous and unexplainable as the years roll on.
Y'know, a lot of that could've been explained away with the 'fuzzy memory' aspect of Logan, in that he had all these experiences but they'd only come out in bursts and spouts, if at all. Sure, he's the most knowledgable son of a bitch around, but on any given day he might not remember something (again, subject to any given writers need for a story); that fixes the 'Ultimate Jack of All Trades' moniker. And that worked just fine.
But recently, with House of M, they gave him ALL of his memories back. ALL of 'em. I felt that was a major downfall in the character, for the exact reason you cite; he was just TOO MUCH! How can you cover all of that history concisely in one story?
And I think Marvel realized that too; they've started giving him OTHER 'fuzzy memories'...from past lives! (see Loeb's 'Evolution' arc from the 'Wolverine' comic) The character was most interesting when he had that mystery about him, and wasn't the ultimate weapon with all the knowledge of his many years right at his fingertips. -
I don't think any of that can detract from the fact that he is an amazingly complex, interesting character. :)
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Not only would he lose his skills along with his memory, but he'd also forget where he left his new cool Jacket that he took off:-).
I wonder how he found it in time for X-Men? Maybe he bumped into some more old people who lived just long enough to give him stuff.
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He'd forget he even had a jacket.
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He wouldn't even know what a jacket is. Or what anything is. He'd try to have a wank & chop his own cock off.
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Thanks ADP!
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was initially inconsistent with the Marvel U, as mutants were supposedly a product of the excess radiation of the mid 20th century, instead of just a natural evolution. Though I suppose they've retconned that, now.
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when his name wasn't fucking JIMMY. Jimmy? Really?
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Maybe I'm wrong (I haven't seen it for a long time), but wasn't there supposed to be some kind of history between Wolverine & the chick with the claws from around the time the movie is set? What was her name again..Deathstrike or something?
I'm probably wrong. I don't really care much. -
Yeah, what happened to the whole "Children of the Atom" angle?
Sure, there where mutants before Hiroshima (Apocalypse of course, and Magneto and even Prof. X if you go by the old origin that he fought in Korea) but they were very rare and the idea was that background radiation caused them to be born that way, but the excessive radiation from nuclear testing, dropping the bomb, reactors and the depletion of the ozone layer was causing more and more mutants to be born each year, making it a possible threat that they would replaced humanity. Now it just seems to be something that "happens." -
Yeah, mystery was what made Wolverine cool. But once you start answering all the questions, all the mystique left him (see Darth Vader for an example of that).
Personally I would love some writer to come along and have the balls to do the unthinkable - say that all of Wolverine's memories are fake - that he never was James Howlett and he never even served in WWII. I know a lot of the diehard Wolverine Fans would have a conniption, but to me it would be great if someone just said that "Logan, you used to just be some loser mutant who got into bar fights once in awhile and could heal real fast, and that is why we chose to make you into Weapon X. You were a nobody before we gave you those claws and adamantium bones. Oh, and by the way we lied about your age. You are really only 55 years old, and your mom was truck stop hooker and your dad was the town drunk. Any other questions?" -
In the comics, at least, Lady Deathstrike was the daughter of the man who invented the admantium bonding process (essentially, the process by which an 'indestructable' metal like adamantium could be smelted for use) that gave Wolvie his fancey-shmancey metal skeleton. She was always after Logan because she felt he was walking around wearing her father's legacy...when it should be hers.
Continentalop, Dingbatty, retcons are unfortunately a fact we have to accept. But I don't see why the impetus for mutations to become the norm means they cannot continue. Nuclear usage and reactors have long reaching effects, and the depletion of the ozone layer is still happening. One could argue mutation just 'happens' now because all of the 'Children of the Atom' elements were set into effect.
And there have been MANY mutants revealed to be about before that stuff (I'll add Namor the Submariner, Mr. Sinister and the Externals et all to that list). But true, they hit hard in the 'loose 60s' of Marvel. They became more and more prevelant as the years have gone on, though; a comparison could also be made to evolution in general, which is a major element for the whole idea of 'mutants', X-Gene positive or otherwise.
Doesn't matter anywho, after House of M. Scarlet Witch layed down some major mojo and put a big fat kibosh on mutants in to to. -
That would be SIIIICK! Throw everything out the window and start from scratch, Logan. Oh, that is your real name by the by. John Logan. You're nothing special.
Make the man acheive whatever success he wanted on his OWN fucking merits, not the faded memories of past glories. That'd be a nice twist for the character.
If not for that effing House of M. 'Cause he got all his memories back. Damn you, Bendis! And damn you, Scarlet Witch!
Waitaminute...she did this by 'warping reality', as she is want to do. Maybe there's so hope in that idea yet... -
May 02, 2009 5:03:16 AM CDT
Continentalop let's just retcon all Marvel the last 15
by industrykiller!
years or so. Especially everything with Wolverine and SPider Man, two characters that have been totally butchered. I remember reading Origin when it came out and recognizing what utter crap it was while people were praising it. It's a terrible story that seems to have been culled out of thin air with no regard for the character whatsoever. Wolverine, invincible mutant, used to be a SICKLY CHILD and a coward for most of his youth!! Get it??!! IRONY!!!! No Marvel, cheap plot device.
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May 02, 2009 5:03:21 AM CDT
"A badly-made-up cross between Kroenen, Darth Maul and Siouxsie
by biggusdickus
Folks, I swear to God I've dated several women fitting this description.
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You obviously are still following the X-Men, I gave up on them in the late 80's after the entire Fall of the Mutants crap (living in the outback with an Aborigine and invisible to all cameras? WTF?) but I have a question about decimation:
If there is only 198 mutants left, doesn't that just end the entire mutant persecution thing? Why would the world "fear and hate" the X-Men if they represent and defend only 198 people?
It is like the entire gay marriage/rights dilemma: you can be the biggest homophobe in the world, but if tomorrow there was only 198 homosexuals left in the world I think you would stop worrying about gay marriage eroding America or how the gays are trying to corrupt and convert our youth. It is like imagining a Jewish conspiracy if there are only 198 jews left in the world - not much of a sinister cabal to worry about. -
fain88, I thought I'd seen or read something like that at some point. Yet she isn't in the new movie at all.
AsimovLives, you're not wrong! I live in Japan, it's not just teenage girls, but grown women too. They love a bit of knob on knob manga! It's fucking weird. -
...of Conan the Fucking Barbarian. No great pedigree, no royal blood. Conan was "the son of a blacksmith and a Cimmerian" who thanks to his tough life rose and took everything he could and MADE himself a king.
The other character who comes to mind when I think of Wolverine is Violent Marv. Remember the line Dwight said about him? "If he had been born in a past era he would have been a gladiator and had women given to him" or something like that. That is how I imagine Wolverine; a man living in the wrong era, whose savage nature and anti-social tendencies make it hard for people to look at him as someone they should admire or someone who can follow the rules of civilization. That is why the entire commando thing from 1945-to-whenever-he-got-the-adamantium never worked for me - if he has been trained to be a commando and spy all those years why is he so anti-social and unable to operate around other people? Commandos might be willing to kill, but they are far from beserkers. -
It might be different if those 198 Homosexuals could shoot laser beams out of their eyes, or say, pick up tower blocks with the power of their minds.
On a planet full of normal mortal people, that would be more like 198 Homosexuals, all moving into your town, which up until that point, had a population of 2. Just you & your dad. & you both have moustaches & work in construction. -
After the last decade or so and especially Morrion's New X-Men (definately worth a read even if it did have some continuity issues), the mutants kept expanding and expanding to the only logical endpoint:
Given another 10 years, the human race, homo sapiens, would be extinct, falling to the upswing of homo sapiens superior--mutants, their natural successors.
So it got to a point that Marvel (as a company) decided they couldn't swing their 'world' that far (and there were too damn many mutants running around anyway!), so they had Scarlet Witch magic-mojo a solution. Three simple words, it seems, for a Chaos Sorceress:
"No More Mutants."
Many, many, MANY mutants were depowered in the 'Decimation'. 198 was the very 'rough' count of the mutants left (there's actually most likely a lot more). But the REAL impact was what Scarlet Witch's words implied...no NEW mutants could be born, no one with the X-Gene (save one girl currently being raised by Cable, the mutant messiah ironically named Hope). Beast's been working hard on this, as they're no longer a threat of human kind going extinct...it's the mutants who verge on the brink of extinction.
So basically, they've gone from being a threatening 'majority' to what they were when they started...an actual 'minority'. And we've seen in the world, that's just what those in power want, or need, to create a whipping boy (re: homosexuals). In fact, Cyclops recently re-located the X-Men to San Diego (of all places!), and has set their home base up not so much as a 'school', but a peaceful environment where the remaining mutants can escape persecution and scrutiny. Because, as opposed to gays or blacks or jews, 200+ mutants each with a superpower or two each is still considered by the right-wing human rights activists as a 'threat to our way of life.' -
There are plenty of non-homosexuals in the world who can also shoot laser beams.
I mean the FF, most of the Avengers, Iron Man, DD, Hulk, Spider-Man, etc; none of these well known heroes are mutants. Plus, you've got SHIELD (or HAMMER know), Mandroids, Sentinels, Guardsmen and who knows how many other things to protect us. Plus thanks to the Avengers Initiative you've got a super hero team in every state.
All 198 super-powered homosexuals can move to my home town, but they will always be outnumbered by the super-powered straight people thanks to Decimation. -
For purposes of this discussion
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You beat me to my point! And made it much more concisely than I did. Well done.
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Ever think of killing Joe Quesada and claiming his throne as your own? I'm sure Marvel would be FAR better off with you editing. Just do me a favor and fire and maybe maim Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Millar in the coup.
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May 02, 2009 5:27:40 AM CDT
Hasn't this been out for a while? Why the reviews now?
by the penultimate gunslinger
I saw it the other day: thought it was better than X3. It was a fun film. An enjoyable film, not a great film. And SPOILER***** Deadpool was awesome in the first half of the film (even though his sword skills were slightly ridiculously OTT) and they fucked the character royally at the end. A real shame. But apart from that it ok - I didn't expect too much and didn't get too much.
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First of all, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! to Homosexuals = Mutants. Nice.
That's the thing about the regular joes of the MU; they're all pretty much stupid like that.
"Reed Richards saved my life! He's such a hero!" "Captain America, I'm saved!"
"Wait...STORM? She's a dirty gene-freak MUTANT! Hit her with a ROCK!!!"
It's all about prejudices that are ingrained into us, and the 'popular voice' that states what is and is not 'right'. Yet another arguement for why the MU is much more reflective of (or an analogy for) the real life world in comparison to the DCU. ("WOW! A STUPER HERO!!! Can I have your autograph?!?) -
They're essentially mutated. Their Genes have been mutated. To me, that kinda makes them Mutants, just not with the X-Gene.
Or are they confused Homosexuals? Like Spiderman says "I'm not gay. I just like cock"..
???
I think I've lost track of the conversation now:-). -
May 02, 2009 5:30:40 AM CDT
In fact I'd like to direct EVERYONE to Continentalop's posts
by industrykiller!
Maybe then you people will understand that these characters are as rich and nuanced as just about anything else in great literature, and they DO have definitive traits that must be included in any decent portrayal. This is why making films like Wolverine out of them should be a crime against art.
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First off, thanks IK, but I don't think I could ever take over Marvel. I am the first to admit my taste are way to limited and I am way to stuck in the past (I'm probably the only guy still upset that Bucky came back as the Winter Soldier and I hate that the FF have a daughter as well as a son).
Fain: Yeah, I always laughed at that in Marvel. But I will ask, have you ever seen Warren Ellis newuniversal? I haven't really read it but there is a scene where Voight (sic) explains to Spitfire what the danger of these altered people are to the world and how they are different from just being mutated people. He gives an analogy between early humans and neanderthals. I have to say, it is the best description of why humanity would hate mutants I have ever read (similar arguments have been said before but I have never heard it so eloquently put) -
I think we have all gone off target here.
AICN always means at sometime one or all TB will talk about homosexuality and cock!
Maybe we are all in denial? -
I'm not in denial.
And that's NOT a denial.
This is. -
Notice no one is insulting each other because we might disagree slightly or have different opinions? This is none as Professionalism people - being able to understand someone else's point of view and not be a douche!
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Talk about amateurism. Or maybe it is just getting late.
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The time on your last message says 5:40am. is that the right time where you are?
That's not late man, that's early! -
Yes! newuniversal was/is (is it still being published? Never can tell with Ellis...) a GREAT read. Actually, what he did was take an alternate reality Marvel created in the 80s and revamped it, integrating MANY aspects of the 616 MU; that description you site is a direct analogy to mutants. If you like that, again, check out Grant Morrison's New X-Men; he discusses that in his very first issue in extremely blatant detail (and a good 5 or so years before newuniversal!).
Must say, very nice to have a chat like this with you, sir. I'm off to bed now, but you keep on keepin' on. You're always an open-minded, congenial voice on these TBs. And the Agent +0 stories still crack my shit up. -
it wasnt done so well. I think it's a bad IDEA, but the EXCECUTION is just so spot on. I'm more angry about how anti climactically Steve Rogers died and that it had to happen during Civil War, which I maintain, without hyperbole, is the worst crossover Marvel has ever done, EVER.
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It is 3:47AM where I am.
I would have gone out tonight but I advanced a friend $1,300 for rent. I have a feeling it will take awhile before I see that money again. -
These are incredibly nuanced and interesting characters, and no matter what writer might get their grubby hands on them, comic characters can rise above that as they are as timeless as the mythological counter-parts of ancient Greece and Norse mythology that inspire them.
And Joe Q....just no. No, no, no. I'll never forgive him for 'Brand New Day'. Talk about back-pedalling. I long for the day when continuity itself can speak through an editor. Only then can comics become truly great. Ahh...as a writer, I can dream, can't I? -
Yeah, you can kiss that goodbye. I did the same thing, for my cousin who needed a deposit for a house. That was almost 4 years ago.
I'd hire a hitman to get it back, but now I'm broke & he's nowhere to be seen! Being nice gets you nowhere. -
May 02, 2009 5:52:15 AM CDT
I'd love to know just what the studio interference was like.
by mr nicholas
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Brubaker = VERY fucking professional. Bucky as Cap? NOOOO! Wait...he did what? And how?
....
Ok. I'll buy that.
Even fighting against the anti-ending that was Civil War (and Secret Invasion in many ways...), the man does great work. Him + Fraction on Uncanny is the best it's been in years. -
Gays!
and Cock!
My job here is done. Sleepy time! -
Fain: Thanks for being a fan of +0. I am trying to write the final great chapter in his saga but I haven't really been in the mood of late. But I am thinking of sending it DGDB's site when I am done.
Not to date myself, but I used to be a fan of the New Universe and used to collect Star Brand, DP7 and Psi-Force when I was a kid. I don't read as many comics as I used to, mostly because I freely admit that my preferences are for older style of comics (I guess I am a Jazz fan in a world of rock and roll).
Industry: No, I admit that the execution was great, and some of these Brubaker have just the right feel - remind me a lot of the Stern/Byrne and even the Englehart run where you don't know what is going to happen next. My problem is when I was growing up, I always assumed that Uncle Ben, Bucky, the Green Goblin and Jean Grey would stay dead for ever. Well, first Jean Grey came back (and then died again), then they brought back Osborn, and now we got Bucky back. That just makes us one step closer before Uncle Ben returns. NOOOOOO! -
Yeah, being nice is a mistake. I forgot an important lesson my mom once told me:
"First you take care of yourself before you take care of others."
She always told us that before she would share her kilo of white vader with us.
Goodnight y'all. -
The whole back from the dead thing. At this point its a comic staple and its probably natural given that its serialized and people get nostalgic fast. I think all you can hope for is that the way they do it is respectful and earned. Norman Osbourne? Not at all. Bucky? Sure I'll buy that for a dollar. And man I can relate being a Los Angeleno myself. I had to write the big check this month for my two roommates. No bueno. Ehhh that's alright, North Hollywood is cheap.
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Well, the thing about him is that he's basically become Lex Luthor. Not only that, but pretty much the entire Marvel Universe revolves around him now. My cousin and I were discussing that, actually, and the implausibility of it. I mean, sure the world thinks of him as saving it from an alien invasion, but if say, that happened in real life, and, oh, I don't know, somehow Charles Manson saved us all. I don't think they'd suddenly make him the head of the CIA. He'd be lucky to get a pardon for his past crimes. Osbourne has quite a history and I don't think people would just forgive that.
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I wish I could rite this goodly.
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How does that work? Is he a mutant Atlantean?
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You know it's true.
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Namor has long been considered to be the marvel universe "first" mutant. Not accounting for the actual age of wolverine and sabertooth, obviously.
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http://tinyurl.com/cnxd7x I guess the other one wasn't Japanese enough?
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fer that matter davywankenobi. Yes, Namor is considered a mutant Atlantean/Human hybrid (so by his very nature, he's considered a mutant). But, he has many 'mutations' that go further than gills on a human or a white-skinned Atlantean: his wingey-feet! Plus, he can fly, and for while waaaaay back in the day he could exude electric pulses like an eel.
He's actually going to be the field leader of a new team of 'Dark X-Men', led by Xavier, with Emma Frost, Wolvie's kid Daken aka Dark Wolverine, The Mimic, Weapon X aka Weapon Omega aka The Collective, and Cloak & Dagger (who also were always mutants!). Will it be awesomeness or lamitude? Only the Fraction knows...and he ain't tellin'. -
I had posted on Harry's review that the yelling at the sky when someone buys it needs to be put to bed permanently.
Ryan reynolds always plays the exact same charecter in every mnovie - the smart ass.
While I found Liev Schrieber's portrayal of Sabretooth to be evil, I didn't find him as menacing as Tyler Mane's version in X-men somehow. -
The radar sense of the blind cave fish and the ability to expand like a BLOWFISH! I think he used the last power only once, I wonder why?
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Always forget about those.
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This is the most poorly constructed film review I have ever seen. There's my review review. Learn to fucking write.
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don't get it..
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Aside from the lame ass "I drink to remember" bar scene?
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...you guys at AICN have GOT to realise that you are doing Fox's (and Rothman's) job for them.
Don't get it? Well, all these negative (and I can't remmeber ever reading such negative) reviews are m,aking curious fans go to the flicks this weekend and see the film. $35 million FridaY? Probably the same Saturday and $20 on Sunday? You're looking at a $90 million opening weekend. Even if it halves next week, it's good for around $220 north american gross, double that worldwide.
That's going to greenlight a sequel before the end of May, no doubt. And Fox (being Fox) will say "Well, the kids must have LOVED that film to pay that much greenback to see it, let's make another one EXACTLY the same."
So unless you want a Wolvie 2 made in the same mold with the same apparent (and I haven't seen it, so unfair for me to judge) lack of attention to detail - sorry folks, Wolverine is CANADIAN, like the Shat) then keep griping. -
Not because of some negative review. Or some positive review. I saw it because I make up my own mind. I like to read others' thoughts and opinions, but, in the end, I'm my own final arbiter.And my opinion (fwiw)?Horrible piece of shit. Absolutely horrible.
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REALLY? How damned desperate do you have to be I ask you? You're reaching so far for an insult they should call you fucking Mr. Fantastic. What-a-douche.
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Who's this Daken guy you mentioned? I'm out of the loop. I was always a DC guy anyway (Batman). Funnily enough, I first heard of Daken yesterday on another movie site, which had an article on potentially great villains for a Wolverine movie.
So, he's his son right? Ok, I didn't know about that. & what does Daken mean anyway? I assumed it was Japanese, but according to the guys I just asked, it isn't. -
Everything he touches turn to excrement
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Such a shame. I'll never forgive Fox/Singer/whoever is responsible for Singer not doing X3. He could have made an amazing film - even with the same script. GRRR!
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your reviews are totally one of the few remaining reasons to keep returning to this site - keep up the good work
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This week on Wolverine:
Logan: Oh yeah, Stryker? Well the jerk store called and they're all out of you!
Stryker: What's the difference? You're their all-time best seller! -
(sorry for above, my fingers 'a slipped!)
Daken, according to his wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daken -- mind the spaces!) and his origin story in Wolverine: Origins (the comic), both claims it's Japanese for 'bastard' or 'mixed blood' or 'mongrel', something like that (the wiki entry even gives the Japanese symbol!).
His mother was Japanese, his dad was the ole kanuckle-head himself, so he's a mix-blood. His non-biological father hated him severely for this, and hence shackled him with the name.
Daken's very similar to a younger Wolverine, minus the adamantium and plus a bitching sleeve tat (which never made sense to me...wouldn't his healing factor just kick in and heal the scarred tissue? Eh). Heightened senses, healing factor, and three retractable bone claws, two on top like daddy and the third that pops out from underneath his wrist, right below his palm.
He ALSO secretes these phermones that he can use to heighten or deaden emotional reaction and response in others (making them feel safe, frenzied panic, etc), that can also be used to make anyone 'not notice' him (like their eyes can't recognize the fact he's there).
Pretty interesting character. -
Not so sure of the "bastard" thing. I live in Japan & when I asked them, they said there's no such word.
Having said that, the Japanese are kinda coy about anything that shows their bad side. I once read the word for "fuck off" & asked someone & she said "I don't know what you mean." They hide it. So I'll endeavour to find out, one way or another!
He sounds like a pretty great character! -
...this ain't. Wolverine goes in the Daredevil/Elektra/pick any Punisher movie/Fantastic Four/Spider-Man 3 bin. Poof fuckin Hugh Jackman; you can tell he busted his ass for this. BRING BRIAN SINGER BACK!!!
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You were kinda right about the Bastard thing fain88.
Basically, Daken is a combination word & it isn't really used in normal cobversation. In fact, the people I asked about it couldn't gimme an answer until we sat down with a dictionary & worked it out.
Literally it's Da (roughly meaning a bad thing, as in the word "dame" which can mean stuff like "don't" or "no way") & Ken meaning dog. The simple translastion however is "Mongrel Dog".
So, Daken kinda means Mongrel. -
never saw. Don't plan on it. The videogame looks fucking awesome though. Rated M. Blood every where. Decapitations Wolverine style. And you get to see him heal in real time. Cant wait to play it!
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They're inclined to focus on the bad stuff in the movie, just because they didn't get invited to the press-screening and Harry is too cheap to pay for a ticket himself. I saw the movie yesterday - it's a a good movie! Not as good as X2 but better than X3, and it certainly playes its role as a tone-setting prequel better than any of the Star Wars movies did!
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