Hi Herc, Thought I'd send you a few thoughts about the magnificent return of Red Dwarf, courtasy of the Dave Channel in the UK. But as it wasn't all that magnificent.... That's not to say it was a total loss. It was great to see the guys back but it was just a little dull. 9 years later. Lister is grieving for the loss of Kochalski. He spends hours thinking and executing plans to wind up Rimmer. A giant inter-dimensional squid...... yeah I thought that too, appears in the last water tank on board, threatening the long term survival of Lister and the Cat. Hilarity ensues...... Not really. Mild amusement at best and a plotline stretched to breaking point in order to get the guys Back To Earth for tommorrows episode which is where fun hopefully starts... The plus points: Red Dwarf is back. The SFX are very good. The minus points: It's not very funny. Still, will be watching it tomorrow night. If this reserection proves popular, a full new series is likely. If such an event should happen my advice to Doug Naylor is to get a new writing partner. You need some fresh ideas....Supertoyslast says:
Nine years after Red Dwarf VIII, and the non-appearance of a movie version in the meantime, we finally get a new 3-part story courtesy of the small digital channel Dave. A basic outline of the storyline of Back To Earth Part 1 is as follows: The mining vessel Red Dwarf. Nine Years Later. Lister's main hobby is inventing schemes to annoy Rimmer. Kryten is taking a holiday in a store cupboard on V Deck. When the Cat reports a sighting of a huge creature in the ship's main water tank, the boys must investigate in order to preserve their water supply. After a brief encounter with the creature in a diving bell, a hologram in the form of the beautiful Katerina Bartikovsky suddenly appears... The main spoilers for Part 1 are: ***SPOILERS*** - Kochanski is dead, as revealed in a visit to a memorial by Lister. There is no indication of how she died. - There is no resolution of the cliffhanger at the end of Red Dwarf VIII. - Rimmer is a hard light hologram. There is no explanation of why he is a hologram again. - Holly is offline, thanks to Lister having left a bath running and flooding Holly's systems. ***END SPOILERS*** I was worried that this new 3-parter would turn out to be a huge mistake. The good news is that this still has the 'feel' of Red Dwarf. Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten are the same characters that we know and love. The actors turn in good performances, true to their characters as we remember them. (The weakest in this regard was Danny John-Jules, whose Cat seemed just slightly 'off' without a studio audience). The CG effects range from poor (some strange CG corridors) to pretty good (the memorial in the glass dome jutting out of the side of the ship). And the traditional music cues help to make this feel like 'proper' Red Dwarf. Unfortunately, the thin budget results in a pretty thin story. Not much at all happens in this first part. There's a creature in the water tank and the boys go and see what it is. Then a new hologram appears with very little explanation, marking a too-sudden shift in the story. That's pretty much it, apart from a sorta-cliffhanger to set up Part 2. Humour is quite thin on the ground, too. Although I did quite enjoy the diving bell sequence. Characters oblivious to something dramatic behind them is funny, more often than not. Aside from that sequence, the episode plays like an ok installment of Red Dwarf without many jokes. But I will leave you with my favourite of the few which were available: "In my country, we have a word for people like you." "In my country, we have several."
April 10, 2009, 9:28 p.m. CST
feared it might be dull and a little free of jokes. Red Dwarf VII and VIII were patchy. Glad it still has the feel though. Will definitely catch up and watch the next two eps with fingers crossed.
April 10, 2009, 9:28 p.m. CST
it really smeggin did.
April 10, 2009, 9:29 p.m. CST
April 10, 2009, 9:29 p.m. CST
Anybody have this downloaded yet?
April 10, 2009, 10:03 p.m. CST
by Barrymore Yorke
Needs to be considered as the first 24 minutes of a 76-minute story.
April 10, 2009, 10:31 p.m. CST
so far, it had moments, minus the studio audience/canned laughter it felt rather like one of the novels
April 10, 2009, 10:34 p.m. CST
It's completely different format to normal Red Dwarf, shot single HD cameras with no studio audience, like a mini movie. The thing is, it seems we need to see it as one complete episode, the first 24 minute part not feeling complete at all. Just as major things start happening it ends! My advice would be to wait and watch it in one sitting.
April 10, 2009, 10:56 p.m. CST
April 10, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Red Dwarf is the perfect example of a show/story written by two people that becomes half as funny, half as interesting, half as entertaining... just plain half as everything when it lost half its writers. I think that happened after the 6th season. Been Red Dwarf lite ever since and I'm not expecting any different now.
April 10, 2009, 11:42 p.m. CST
April 10, 2009, 11:54 p.m. CST
Surprised no one said Smeg yet in a subject. Anyway any Red Dwarf is good Red Dwarf, right?
April 11, 2009, 12:09 a.m. CST
I know they're doing a 3 parter, plus a making of..but still. <p> I wish they did do a movie, some of the books were great..Danny John-Jules was awesome in Lock Stock...but besides that and Blade II..he's done nothing else I've seen..
April 11, 2009, 12:18 a.m. CST
I agree that theres been a real dropin quality since Grant left. Series 3-6 were the epitome of great comedy writing. Why the hell does Naylor think the series needs to look "filmic?." It doesn't - the shoddy effects just made it funnier and I want my damn guitar solo theme tune back. I love playing that on the guitar - played it once in front of 200 when our backing track died. It went down aweomely.
I didnt catch the episode tonight, completely forgot but am not surprised to hear it wasn't great. Perhaps tomorrows will be better when they visit present day Earth. A Red Dwarf movie always sounded like a bad idea to me too. Get Grant back and give us a Series 9 BBC.
April 11, 2009, 12:27 a.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
As one of the creatures that could take their heads off - and wanted Sarah to take her head off too.
April 11, 2009, 12:46 a.m. CST
They'll get back up to speed if another series happens.
April 11, 2009, 1 a.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
If Rob Grant won't do it, just end the whole thing.<br> Series 7 & 8 were awful.<br> I'm downloading this tonight, but not expecting much.
April 11, 2009, 2:02 a.m. CST
i was not impressed, hope it gets better
April 11, 2009, 2:17 a.m. CST
Because our local PBS station plugged the hell out of it years ago. I watched several episodes, and never laughed even once.
April 11, 2009, 2:22 a.m. CST
written by Baldrick (who played the Sheriff). I think he played Barrington, the only Rasta in Sherwood.<p> It was shown on the kid's slot on BBC, but it's definitely worth checking out if you can't get enough of British comedy from the late '80s and early '90s. You haven't lived until you've heard Danny's rap about pancakes. Smeg it, here's a youtube link (get rid of the spaces and all that jazz): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj_aHCpZl4k
April 11, 2009, 2:23 a.m. CST
and it wasn't awful, by any means. <p> What was good: the actors slipped back into the characters like they'd never been away. Also the CGI - pretty smart. <p> What was bad: no studio audience (the actors used to feed off them to great effect), and that stupid poxy film look. Also, the direction was clunky, and detracted from the comedy. <p> Still, looking forward to the next two installments, and I hope it goes to another series.
April 11, 2009, 3:39 a.m. CST
Apart from that one gag at the beginning where Lister comes up with a novel way of conserving water. Everything else felt so laboured and forced. Having said that it was lovely to see them back-- I grew up with those characters.
April 11, 2009, 3:46 a.m. CST
But is was very much Red Dwarf lite. It misses the studio audience 'live' feel that the early series had. But like I said the first part plays very much like a set up to get them home. I'm looking forward to tonights episode where they end up on Coranation Street (UK's longest running soap, think it might be the worlds) where Craig Charles new alter ego now resides. Plus the custom Smart car that Starbug becomes looks great. Will post my thoughts on the second part tonight when I get back from my 13 hour shift. Some of us have proper jobs....
April 11, 2009, 3:48 a.m. CST
To paraphrase Ricky Gervais: if you don't think the show's funny, it's because YOU'RE Arnold Rimmer.
April 11, 2009, 4:09 a.m. CST
YES! In your FACE Supernatural! <p> Just kidding ;)
April 11, 2009, 4:18 a.m. CST
as funny as testicular cancer.
April 11, 2009, 4:20 a.m. CST
...better than some of the 8th series episodes but I have to agree that they need to somehow get Rob back. 7 and 8 had some decent stories but just weren't classic Dwarf. I hope viewing figures are good enough to bring this back.<p> This episode had some good gags..not just the ironing scene (which made me laugh out loud) The Squid attack (someone should cut that and put it on the Watchmen Dvd) was great, and Kryten wasn't his usual whiney self. "activating innocent whistle mode"<p> Do we get a talkback for each episode?
April 11, 2009, 4:38 a.m. CST
that the Kochanski that's dead has been gone for a lot longer than 9 years? What if this isn't the "prime" red dwarf universe, it's an alternate reality where Kochanski never came back and Rimmer remained a hologram. Whatever the case, it's clear there's another force at work here, Katerina appeared just as the squid vanished, methinks some smegger is manipulating the crew for some reason.
April 11, 2009, 4:44 a.m. CST
No cliffhanger resolution, Kochanski's just gone (shame, 'cos I loved Chloë Annett) and almost no laughs in part 1. Let's hope it gets better - although on the plus side the CGI in places makes Dr Who look like it hasn't progressed since the 60s.
April 11, 2009, 4:56 a.m. CST
The whole episode felt a bit flat, and stretched out to fill the half hour slot. The jokes were few and far between, and the ones we had weren't all that funny. The episode didn't seem to fit in to the timeline of the other 8 previous series, and without continuation of the storyline from series 8 it just seemed as if the budget couldn't accommodate more than 5 actors. Robert Llywelyn didn't appear comfortable playing Kryten again. Chris Barrie wasn't Arnold Rimmer, there was something missing from his performance which I just can't put my finger on. With Lister, a lot of the cheeky/mischievous personality was missing. I'm wondering if part of the problem is that too much time has passed. They should have let the series rest in peace.
April 11, 2009, 5:07 a.m. CST
Considering it's been a decade since the last episode of RD was broadcast I have to say this instalment ticked most of the right boxes for me.<br><br> Sure, there's plenty of unanswered questions left over from the truly dreadful, unfunny and incoherent final episode of RD8 (which was a shame because I thought series 8, on the whole, was pretty darn good) but considering this is just a 3 part special set a decade later I think any resolution would have merely come across as forced exposition.<br><br> ("Hey, Cat, remember 10 years ago we were all in prison on this very ship, the entire crew was resurrected from the dead, Rimmer was still alive, there should have been 2 Kochanskis onboard but there wasn't, and Red Dwarf visibly changed shape... and now none of that is the case?"<br> "Err... yeah...??!") <br><br> So hopefully there'll address this succinctly and naturally during the course of the special although I wouldn't hold out much hope and I won't be too disappointed if they don't. If Dave do greenlight a series 9 (I hope they do) then perhaps they'll address it there but considering this is a 3 parter called "Back to Earth" and we're a third of the way through already and they're not I can't see it being high on the storytelling agenda. <br><br> Anyway, with that out the way, here's what I thought of part 1: <br><br> GOOD<br> - The actors slip right back into their performances. These WERE the Red Dwarf characters; not aging actors playing at being them.<br> - The CGI. Loved it. It gave RD a sense of scale that was only previously seen during RD8. The composition was noticeable at times but so what? It always has been. And while probably the result of a budgetary constraint it made the show visually impressive. - There was a skutter - It was the original (series I-V) RD exterior - No fake laughter. Studio audience = good. Laughter track = bad. If I have to be prompted to laugh then it ain't funny. - Opening title sequence was great and you gotta love that theme tune. - There were no tired Space Corps Directive jokes - Duane Dibbley wasn't trotted out yet again to please the crowd - It was a joy to see brand new RD on TV again <br><br> BAD<br> - No Holly. With RD7/RD8 re-introducing the ship and (original) Holly again it felt like the old team were finally back together. It's a shame Lovett no longer wants the role (according to Wikipedia). I wonder what Hattie Hayridge is up to these days...? Haha, you know I'm kidding. - As others have said, it wasn't *that* funny although there were moments of genuine humour even if they weren't "LOL". I agree, Grant's absence has been noticeable for a long time (15 years?) and Naylor needs some help with "the gags" but, still, I had a smile on my face while watching even if I wasn't holding my stitches together. Besides, some of RDs humour was crap anyway. "Smeghead", "Fishbreath" and jokes about Kryton's head might be funny to a 12 year old (hey, they made me laugh) but I'm 31 now. I prefer wit these days. - So that female hologram showing up just after the squid disappeared. Any thoughts on that? Yeesh...!! <br><br><br> So, it wasn't great but it wasn't a let down. It was part 1 of a 3 parter (although so was "Back in the Red - Part 1" and that was funnier). I enjoyed it and providing it doesn't go all post-modern on us, like Lister getting a job as a cab driver in Manchester, I'll be content. Let's see what tonight brings. If they do end up on Coronation Street as has been suggested (and publicity photos imply) then "Red Dwarf: Back to Earth" will be officially SHIT.
April 11, 2009, 5:10 a.m. CST
Really, it was poor. Whatever strengths Doug Naylor might have, he can't write jokes anymore. It was flat and unfunny throughout, and straight after they showed Quarantine and Gunmen of the Apocalypse, which just rubbed salt into the wound - two of the show's funniest episodes. If they really want to carry on with Red Dwarf, they need to do (for starters) 3 things: 1) Get Rob Grant back to write. 2) Film it in front of an audience. This is one of the few shows that really suits a laugh track. 3) Stop fucking around with CG. Red Dwarf was never about how cool the fucking ship looked, it was about JOKES. Irreverant sci-fi bashing that we were all in on. As Lister says in series 3, "Oh, don't give me this Star Trek crap, its too early in the morning".
April 11, 2009, 5:19 a.m. CST
i fucking loved the pancake day rap, smegging brilliant.
April 11, 2009, 5:26 a.m. CST
I didn't notice it during the episode but I watched Quarantine later in the evening and the Dave logo/watermark had "Lister" appended to it. I quite appreciated that little touch. They're clearly making an event out of this; their first original programme. Let's hope their efforts won't be in vain.
April 11, 2009, 5:46 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
Because seemed like canned laughter to me back in the day when it was aired or was a studio audience watching the episode in a screening room. Never had the feeling of being filmed in front of a live studio audience. <p>It was the worst part about it anyway. glad they dropped it. I don't need cues when to laugh or what other people think is funny. Do you? The whole idea was ridiculous in the sitcom era I thought.
April 11, 2009, 5:56 a.m. CST
Look at what the show had working against it: the last two seasons were weak and uneven 10 years ago, it comes back to TV with almost no rehearsal time, a tiny budget, the show is shorter to accomodate adverts, everyone is out of practice and the first episode wasn't designed to end where it did because the story was written as a two-parter, not a three. But here we are, somehow the show was better than it has been since season 6. <br><br> It felt like real Red Dwarf to me! And I think we have to evaluate all three parts together as a whole. Not long to wait - more tonight and tomorrow!
April 11, 2009, 6:03 a.m. CST
I haven't read any reviews or spoilers of the next two parts, but I have heard a couple of things from interviews. 1) In the alternative universe, the crew steal a car which has been remodelled to look like Starbug by an obsessed fan of a TV show called "Red Dwarf". 2) Doug Naylor says that they might make a Series 10, but Series 9 has been 'retired' in a way which will be made clear in the specials.<p>Unless the first piece of info from the Radio Times is incorrect or due to crossed wires, it looks like this is a case of fictional characters crossing over into the 'real' world ala Last Action Hero. Or maybe into other fictional worlds such as Coronation Street. Either concept sets my teeth on edge. I want Red Dwarf, not a show about the characters meeting their own fans asking questions like "what happened after the end of Series 8?"
April 11, 2009, 6:03 a.m. CST
but not that surprising. One very funny exchange though: CAT: And then this enormous testicle appeared out of the water. LISTER: He means tentacle. RIMMER: I hope so.
April 11, 2009, 6:05 a.m. CST
That alone makes it better than the last three seasons.;
April 11, 2009, 6:07 a.m. CST
I have the book by the actor who played Kryten (Robert Llewellyn) and he talks at length about the various shoots in front of the audience, and some of the trouble they had with noise levels if the joke was "a woofer" (great).<P> For the record - the new episode was the television equal of Phantom Menance. Same certain things - but kind of Invasion of the Body Snatchers in terms of not being the "real deal".<P> So down about it - I was expecting the superfunny, and I got what looked like someone had filmed a play / panto of Red Dwarf. <P> I am guessing that maybe a good director and producer could have brought this in with the funny.
April 11, 2009, 6:28 a.m. CST
Craig Charles looking like he's still on crack, Chris Barrie gurning for 1/2 an hour, Danny John-Jules trying his best and Kryten polishing a turd. The story was good with typical Red Dwarf style exposition that felt right and set the scene well. <P>Means fuck all though if the jokes aren't funny and I hardly laughed. Granted I was pretty toasted but felt it was weak. Hope tonights better
April 11, 2009, 6:29 a.m. CST
split into 3 episodes in 2010. last nights episode was perfect, but red dwarf has always been hit or miss. <p> i was still able to enjoy it on some level. and it beats the hell out of shitty reality tv.
April 11, 2009, 6:43 a.m. CST
i kid you not, i was babysitting my little cousin and he was on some cbbc thing. i just kept thinking. fuck! you were in blade fella!
April 11, 2009, 7:19 a.m. CST
Like you, supertoyslast, I've not read any reviews or spoilers so don't know what to expect but the signs are certainly there. I'm hesitant to say the least as to where this might be going.<br><br> The Red Dwarf crew walking around Coronation Street? Sounds too much like that shitty "Children In Need" Doctor Who / Albert Square cross over for my liking.<br><br>The thing is, post-modernism was done to death in the 1990s. Last Action Hero did it pretty well, I thought, but the Scream movies and others pretty much re-invented it and flogged it to death at the same time. J&SBSB was dreadful and I was less than impressed with TLoG's Apocalypse. Personally I would have preferred it *had* the residents of Royston Vasey all gone on holiday together to Spain, as suggested by Pauline. It would have been far funnier and less masturbatory. If Red Dwarf does it too now then it really will have scraped the last of the originality barrel.<br><br> I wouldn't be surprised if this squid creature turns out to be like the Despair Squid in RD5 - the crew are returned back to reality/Earth and are forced to rethink their very existence. <br><br>As a sci-fi show it could almost get away with it were it a new and original concept but it's been done to death over the past 15 years.<br><br> As for Chloë Annett's absence, I really didn't mind her too much. She was less irritating in RD7 than Kryton (oh God, that was painful) and added an extra dynamic during RD8. She was also more than pleasing on the eyes. I'm afraid the same can't be said about Fizz and Gail Platt (or whatever her fkn name is nowadays).<br><br>Kryton buying a newspaper from Rita Fairclough? The Cat having a pint in the Rovers? Does any of this sound good?<br><br>Still, I'll reserve judgement. I've got a bit more faith in Naylor's integrity than that. The opening titles indicate there's more to look forward to than dread. I'm still looking forward to tonight's episode. Let's just hope there's a few more jokes.
April 11, 2009, 7:24 a.m. CST
I hate to be completely negative but Back To Earth was so far removed from a comedy it was sad. The trouble is the lads aren't characters any more, they are caricatures <p> It wasn't funny nor relevant and failed as either a story or comedy. Let it go. <p>
April 11, 2009, 7:26 a.m. CST
Last nights ep was more like Red Dwarf than anything in series 8 and the latter part of series 7. I've heard comments such as "not much happens" and "the sfx weren't great". Thats Red Dwarf! Back in series 1 and 2, not much happened for 5-10 mins because the characters would be interacting with each other. Ok, so series 8 tried to gt this back, but it felt forced. Here it was almost like the old days - Lister amusing himself and winding up Rimmer, the Cat wandering off around the ship and Kryten going on a holiday to another deck, a nod to Rimmers holiday tour of the ships engines in series 4. The ship felt big again, lonely and felt like a cross between series 1 and 2 with the visual improvements of 3 onwards. It wasn't laugh out loud funny I agree, but it also didn't try and cram loads in like an average episode of series 8. Remember the T-rex? Nuff said. And the laughter track in series 8 was terrible (although I am aware the bunk scenes were filmed infront of a studio audience, that can be seen on the outtakes on the DVD). I liked it and hope that once the whole thing is revealed, this ep will be seen as a return to what made Red Dwarf great - the original four characters, no ott sfx or story (well not until the middle for 5 mins with the squid, but I'd take that any day over series 8's reliance on crap sfx that got way to much screen time)and good interactions between the characters. I'm not looking forward to the next ep with a visit to Coronation Street, and hope that it can carry on with the great foundations that were layed last night. "They've taken Mr Rimmer, Sir they've taken Mr Rimmer!" "Lets get out of here before they bring him back!!!"
April 11, 2009, 7:36 a.m. CST
This got just over 2 million viewers on Dave! (Not including repeats or +1). That meant more people were watching Red Dwarf than BBC2 or Five. Hopefully that's good enough for a full-blown series. The BBC should sit up and take notice.<p>As for "not much happens", that's fine when it's the characters interacting for 5-10 minutes. Much of what's best about Red Dwarf is when not much is happening. Not much happening for 5-10 minutes is fine. Not much happening for 30 minutes, padded out to fill the timeslot is something that worries me. Hopefully the plot will kick in during part 2.
April 11, 2009, 7:36 a.m. CST
tonight. Tennant, Michelle Ryan, and lee evans in a bus. hmmm...
April 11, 2009, 7:57 a.m. CST
But i loved it. Not sure if it's me and I've grown out of it, but this new one wasn't very good. Didn't the old show have a laugh track? Maybe thats what this one needed to point out which bits were supposed to be funny.
April 11, 2009, 8:17 a.m. CST
And hardly any whiney abusive posts.
April 11, 2009, 8:33 a.m. CST
The first six (of eight) series were filmed live in front of an audience, and the way the talented actors fed off the crowd was brilliant. It also lead to the two excellent bloopers compilations, Smeg Ups and Smeg Outs, sometimes with entire improvised routines in front of the audience by the actors. When series 7 introduced 'canned laughter' tracks and the actors acting dry in a studio but leaving pauses for the expected laughs it made the whole thing feel horribly forced and unfunny.
April 11, 2009, 8:37 a.m. CST
and I miss Kochanski (fuck you all series 8 was funny)
April 11, 2009, 8:50 a.m. CST
I was glad to see the crew back, and the effects were great, and I enjoyed the new hologram...but here are my problems with it:<p> 1. They NEEDED the canned laughter. There were really awkward pauses between lines where the actors were expecting the laughter to fit. Without it, it seemed disjointed.<p> 2. The cat just wasn't funny. Whether that was due to lack of canned-laughter or not I don't know, but I'm fairly biased as I don't think he's been funny since season 1. He's the only character that hasn't reached any kind of potential for gags.<p> 3. The dimension squid was an alien!! Red Dwarf doesn't do aliens, yet straight away that rule got thrown out the window.<p>
April 11, 2009, 8:59 a.m. CST
David Tennant was on BBC breakfast today. He said the scripts for the specials are some of the best so far. He also told a good story about how the bus in tonights special wasn't supposed to look beat-up but they dropped a box on it at the dock in Dubai!<P>Also Michelle Ryan brings out the giggety-giggerty in me. Alright.
April 11, 2009, 9:04 a.m. CST
... was Dr Big Suze's long monologue. My jaw hit the floor at the end of that...
April 11, 2009, 9:09 a.m. CST
er.. what about Gelfs? pretty sure they were aliens. or the 2 xenomorphs? agreed about Cat - he seemed very stilted... suffered without the laughter track to pad his moments out. Also, Rimmer / Chris Barrie really hasn't aged well. Yea, i wanted this to be Great, and it was a major disappointment: admittedly they were all very much the same characters as they ever were, but it lacked a freshness that shiny cgi couldnt replicate. the non-sequitor of the squid turning (?) into the hologram of Peep Show's Big Suze made no sense; the "jokes" were all quite laboured and drawn out (ie: Kryten holidaying in the broom cupboard) i will be watching the final 2 parts and hope it'll get better, but part 1 has got me set up to not expect much after all. one question - who was the bloke in the photo next to Kochanski's? im sure someone out there will know - i was wondering if it was the other co-creator of Red Dwarf?
April 11, 2009, 9:26 a.m. CST
..was always a sort of running joke in the earlier series. Rimmer is obsessed with meeting them and they always talk about nearly being eaten by them but most of plots don't have them (dispair squid and psirens the only exceptions I can recall)<P> Gelfs, including the polymorph and the emohawk, were created by humans - hence the intense hatred. They were always running into temporal disruptions, mad computers and their own psyches most of the time
April 11, 2009, 9:27 a.m. CST
Gelf = Genetic Engineered Life Form.<p> Every monster the Dwarfers encountered was man-made.
April 11, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST
were man-made. Watch the dispair squid episode again. And the Psirens and Poloymorphs were gelfs. technically. It was a catch-all term. The ones you see in the series called 'Gelfs' are just one kind of Gelf. Admittedly, the most numerous kind. And there were Simulants of course.
April 11, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST
How could you forget about the Quagaars (double a) Those pesky chickens need to make another appearence
April 11, 2009, 9:32 a.m. CST
the aliens that communicate by breaking legs and doing jigsaws. It's time they made a comeback :)
April 11, 2009, 9:36 a.m. CST
classic, that had me belly laughing. What a great programme this used to be. Thought last nights ep was terribly weak
April 11, 2009, 9:40 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
thank you. yeah maybe it was the later season 7 that I remember being that way. It's been a longtime since I've seen it. in fact only when it first aired, haven't been back to revisit it.
April 11, 2009, 9:45 a.m. CST
Thanks for confirming the polymorph-are-gelfs thing and the rest - I was going to call a Stewards and check the DVDs ("There was only one problem - IT WENT MAD")<P> Might have to stick them on anyway thanks to thewiseman! <P>"Its spelt QUAGAARS with TWO As" Classic.
April 11, 2009, 9:47 a.m. CST
.. of watching Red Dwarf and Vic Reeves big night out and feeling you were the only one who new they were on TV ... when Friday night TV used to kick ass. RD - funny for 3 seasons then very mehhhh.
April 11, 2009, 9:50 a.m. CST
Even worse than the godawful season 8 (which, in turn, was even worse than the lamentable season 7)... It's a shame that since the Doug/Naylor split, Red Dwarf has consistently gone from bad to worse, as it used to be one of the all-time greats. Ah well...
April 11, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST
Red Dwarf I and II - Genuine pathos, great premise and feeling of solitude. Very rewatchable and characters that feel like relatable people. Comedy thats unforced and funny. It's a sitcom ultimately but felt like so much more <p> Red Dwarf III to V - more conventional in terms of sitcom but regularly funny and some great philosophical ideas and critiques of everything from religion to A.I. The peak of the series that deserves its place in U.K great comedy lists <p> Red Dwarf VI - the most divisive. Many consider this a great series but for me whilst it was still alive the wheels were falling off. The jokes were reused throughout the series (see Space Core Directive gags), the setup felt more forced and...I don't know. I remember at the time even the much praised Gunmen episode fell kinda flat. Its redemption was the last episode. The meeting of their Future Selves, what they'd become and the reaction of the crew to that was just perfect. Despite ending somewhat unresolved by itself, the heroics and ultimate redemption of Rimmer would have been a beautiful conclusion to the show. <p> Red Dwarf VII - Stretched out, laboured, unfunny for long stretches, out of place CGI, unsure whether it was a comedy or drama and just all over the place with characters that had become facisimiles and parodies of themselves that were written to fit in with the jokes and not play them out naturally. <p> Red Dwarf VIII - see VII, maybe a little more earnest but no more funny or likeable. <p> Last nights effort - an attempt to just strip down to the basic crew but embarassing in many ways to watch. Despite the particular details not being important to a show like this, the fact they chose to resolve nothing from VIII's finale and seemingly ditch continuity (I know these specials arent over yet, but with only 3eps to cover it the next two face an uphill struggle <p> I dont expect a return to the glory days - one sole genuine laugh would do
April 11, 2009, 10:41 a.m. CST
end up on coronation street in this dimension jump im going to never watch anything on Dave again <p> Which won't be a stretch since repeats of RD is the only shining light on the station
April 11, 2009, 10:45 a.m. CST
They seem like totally different shows in some ways nowadays. If they could just go back to the "Bums in space" idea and bring back Holly, and (dare I say it) lose Kryten. Even Kochanski could return as another actress. What's Clare Grogan doing nowadays?
April 11, 2009, 10:46 a.m. CST
Bitchy, moany people are seriously over doing there own self importance, it was a funny and enjoyable Red Dwarf episode, felt like an old school one, Lister and Rimmer's banter, Kryten and Cat as comedy relief, nifty FX, cool re-design of the ship and some laugh out loud moments. Maybe people don't realise that in 10 years they have changed too, seriously all I have heard is self important people bemoaning a 20 minute sci-fi sitcom, maybe they should soul search as deep as they do with there TV.
April 11, 2009, 10:56 a.m. CST
You can either like the episode or not, but calling people who don't and offer reasons 'bitchy moany self important people' isn't really the point of coming to a TB that has been otherwise good natured and constuctive
April 11, 2009, 11:02 a.m. CST
Guess I touched a nerve with you eh. If you saw last nights show as something to feel embarrassed over it says a lot more about you than it does me, its been 10 years since the last episode, of course it is going to change, and I think it changed for the better, go push your pseudo intellectual reviews elsewhere, I'm tired of UK talkbacks being snobby, elitist and mostly shameful affairs to read, people here really do see themselves as a cut above, why I do not know but that is the vibe you give off, guess its all that insecurity covering up.
April 11, 2009, 11:20 a.m. CST
Hope it steps up a notch. And hope to god Doctor Who doesn't suck like the Xmas one did.
April 11, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST
And Doctor Who is missed sorely. I can't wait for the regular season to start again!!! And when's Torchwood back? <p> With TSCC being (likely) canceled, and Heroes basically sucking, and BSG canceled and sold out for a bad finale, there's no decent SciFi on TV nowadays!
It was ok..it looks very nice. I was surprised how good it looked as doug naylor said the budget was wafer thin for it. The fx were pretty damn good mostly and much much better than Rde dwarf of old. Th main prob was that it just wasnt funny. i didnt laugh once. it felt like everyone hadnt been away but if they wanna continue they gotta make it more funny.
I think the fact they put old/classic red dwarf eps on last night in and around the new one, just highlighted the fact they'll never be that funny again. I think I found the last 2 series (where they went from studio mode to film mode) just as unfunny as this one. Gunmen of the apocalypse was one. Im actually only tuning in tonight to see if they show polymorph or the one with ace rimmer
April 11, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST
about saying the shows gone downhill and offering reasons for this point of view other than 'it sucks lolz'? <p> I'm tired of seeing talkbacks generally where people get personal or attack others for just offering their opinions, but it seems that ain't going to change.
April 11, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST
that look really haot in black and she looks really hot.
April 11, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST
It's Red Dwarf!!!! Just be happy they made 3 new episodes!!! I was convinced I would never see any new Dwarf during the past 10 years but am happy to be wrong. It wasn't great but do people usually critique a play during the first act? No they watch the whole thing in context then moan if they wish. It wasn't classic Dwarf but it had it's moments.
April 11, 2009, 12:34 p.m. CST
All the actors seemed a little uncomfortable in places, and the dialogue was often poor. I don't think I laughed once, sadly. I like that they've hired Sophie Winkleman though.<br><br> I'm not sure I like that the cliffhanger to season 8 has been ignored. In fact it seems the whole season has been ignored with the rest of the crew gone, the senile version of Holly gone (wasn't he existing in Lister's watch?), Rimmer a hologram again and no explanation of how they resolved the cliffhanger.<br><br> Personally my favourite seasons of Red Dwarf are seasons 1, 2, 3 and 8. Most people hate season 8 but I always really liked it, especially some of the new crew they introduced. It's a shame all that has been thrown away. :(
April 11, 2009, 12:51 p.m. CST
April 11, 2009, 1:35 p.m. CST
...Danny John-Jules, enemy of binmen everywhere, was one of the Doo-Wop group singing during Da-Doo that Rick Moranis tries to immitate just before the eclipse. Surprised hardly anyone ever seems to catch that.
April 11, 2009, 1:50 p.m. CST
Really impressed. Certainly for a Russell T. special. Even if it did steal a bit from Pitch Black. The Next special looks like a good horror type one.
April 11, 2009, 1:52 p.m. CST
Yeah, I know this thread ISN'T for the latest Dr Who special but I was completely underwhelmed by the lame plot, which could've of been written by a 10-year-old apart for the authorship being given to a certain Russell T Davies and Gareth Roberts. At least the water-dripping zombies in the next special look a little better.
April 11, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST
The plot wasn't that good, and I'd like to see a little continuity with these specials, but it was carried out really well. It's better than that last Xmas special and most of the last season.
April 11, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST
They had better tie up the River Song story or this show's credibility will be out.
April 11, 2009, 1:57 p.m. CST
excellent. it began as crime caper. but the final line "he is coming and he will knock 4 times." was errie. The 2nd of the 4 final tennant whos is called the waters of mars. stars lindsay duncan. appears to take place on space station. looks great. recently it was revealed that martha jones, rose tyler and Donna noble will be in Tennants last ever Dr who to air at christmas. Planet of the dead had great cinematography. Lee evans was not as annoying as I had thought. Ryan was hot. I loved the drs matter of factness when she begged to with him. A brilliant episode. but that final ominous line he is coming and will knock 4 times winds the dr.
April 11, 2009, 2:01 p.m. CST
another shite fest!
April 11, 2009, 2:21 p.m. CST
It was quite clear to me that RD stopped just as the plot was kicking in and that it needs to be judged as a whole. <p> Dr Who, however, seemed like a retread of ideas we've seen before. People stranded on a bus was just like the episode that Donna didn't appear in last series (except that one managed to be really creepy). Aliens with rubber heads as per usual, although locations and SFX were great. Ryan bending down to sit on the edge of that shaft - hmmmm pervy director methinks. Good on him. <p> as for the lines from the old woman - the best bit by far. Reference to your song ending - wasn't that woman called River Song? furthermore, are we looking at The Master returning?? or maybe the return of the Time Lords??? lots of speculation to come..... <p> one final question - what is this Red Dwarf cliffhanger people keep taling about? I swear I can't remember for the life of me.
April 11, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST
by Joe Mannix Jr.
Thanks for the link. Having a hard time searching for this earlier.
April 11, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST
and her gift was that she could hear voices. There was a thing about the two girls?Martha and rose? they are in the final with with donna noble. hmm
April 11, 2009, 2:53 p.m. CST
At the end of the final series nearly a decade ago at the end of the end credits. The words The end appeared quickly followed by Like smeg it is.....Then there was all that hot air guff about the movie which never happened.
April 11, 2009, 2:53 p.m. CST
tennant either gurns or shouts. no range there whatsoever.
April 11, 2009, 2:54 p.m. CST
talkbackers are a tough crowd.
April 11, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST
I agree with you about who being shit for two. Every ep had the same scenario. It was getting tiring. all that running. martha was card board character. stiff as a bloody plank. I hate john Barrowman. I find his talking really loudly annoying. and that loud laughter really grating.
April 11, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST
the dwarfers are just characters in a tv show? are they really stretching credibility that thin?!? this is absolutely fucking awful.
April 11, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST
Really? What's that all about then?
watching part 2 now. this is killlllling me. cringing.
oh god. now there are kids in it progressing the story line. noooooo. they are plugging the dave tv channel within it. nooooooo. someone stop this asap
now they are ripping off blade runner. someone seriously make this stop.
coronation street. no. my.fucking.god.
April 11, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST
that was absolutely fucking awful. i don't think anyone could have predicted anything that bad. to take 8 seasons of inconsistent quality that reached some seriously good highs when it was on form and reduce it to this is a crying shame. they've shoved the whole show up their own collective arses.
I cant believe they are ending the show like this. It takes selling out to a whole new level. They were even plugging shitty cable channels, coronation street and SFX magazine ? ! Terrible Terrible Terrible
April 11, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST
Quite an acomplishment never the less. The cast all looked the part, the new effects did the trick for me, infact I thought it was way better than the last two series. I enjoyed it as a light bit of fun nostalgic sci-fi. They should deffinately make more, I'd watch em.
April 11, 2009, 3:38 p.m. CST
i'm usually pretty respectful of others opinions but that was an absolute fucking train wreck of a show. i've never seen a co creator of a show tear his work apart in quite such spectacular fashion.
April 11, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST
The song seemed to sum it up quite perfectly: "There's no kind of atmosphere." Yep, you can say that again. The Coronation street climax just about killed it stone dead.
April 11, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST
I say in the name of professionalism we go over there and trash their fucking lights.
April 11, 2009, 3:43 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
...they basically ignored Series 7 & 8. And that's a good thing.<br> Chloe Annette and all those new characters from series 8 sucked.
April 11, 2009, 3:44 p.m. CST
by Chris Elms
Didn't anybody read the damn script?? I never thought i'd see one of the best British shows of all time reduced to this. It's like those crappy one-off Comic Relief specials you used to get.
I cant see how anyone liked that? Even this crappy "smeg ups" outtake show was better than both the new ones. Red dwarf jumped the shark when they ditched the live audience. 1996/7 wasnt it?
April 11, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST
Daves disabled registrations, every username I enter is taken, every email I enter is already used, fucking site is as amateur as back to earth
I'd rather watch the fucking brittas empire. seriously.
April 11, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST
i hear ya brother. i am fucking livid that that bollocks got through quality control. fair enough if they wanted to make a shit episode, part one was mediocre at best, but it didn't take the entire mythology of the show and flush it down the crapper like part two.
April 11, 2009, 3:53 p.m. CST
"Will there be any more episodes of Red Dwarf?" pondered Dave Lister on a London bus. No, Dave, I somehow suspect there won't. And you know what, that will be no bad thing.<br><br>After part 2 I don't think I can even bring myself to watch the "conclusion" tomorrow. Cult TV/movie shops still stock Red Dwarf merchandise? 10 year old children know who these characters are? Red Dwarf got a 9th and 10th season? In your fucking dreams Doug Naylor.<br><br>R.I.P. (again) Red Dwarf. 1988-1999.
April 11, 2009, 3:54 p.m. CST
As she's oh so topical right now, like fucking jokes about the credit crunch. hardy fucking har, soooo fucking clever Doug, you're the man.
April 11, 2009, 4:02 p.m. CST
$29.99 and you too can script and film your own special featuring the actual cast of Red Dwarf.
April 11, 2009, 4:03 p.m. CST
....I have no words. I admit I like a couple of the gags though (the one about video cassettes, and the Blade Runner gag)
April 11, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST
I would put money on that being better than the scripted, turgid abortion we just got to watch.
April 11, 2009, 4:05 p.m. CST
To make Wolverine look better!
April 11, 2009, 4:10 p.m. CST
and post it here: Red Dwarf script improvement suggestions, UKTV Viewer Liaison, UKTV PO Box 4307, Manchester, M61 0AH
April 11, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
Part 2 hasn't hit BitTorrent as I type this. :( <br> As an American, I probably won't get all the product-plugs you guys mentioned either. Maybe that's a good thing?
April 11, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST
Seriously, as if we needed any more proof that the channel Dave was a pile of wank. At least Dr Who was good (apart from the flying bus). Some dark moments. I guess John Simm is coming back then?
April 11, 2009, 4:21 p.m. CST
April 11, 2009, 4:23 p.m. CST
April 11, 2009, 4:26 p.m. CST
As an American, I doubt you'll get much aside from a joke about DVD's and a blade runner gag or 2. Craig Charles is in a UK soap opera called Coronation Street, which is what comatose patients, the mentally ill and the generally infirm watch to quicken their journey off this mortal coil. Looks like part 3 is actually going to be set on Coronation Street itself. It's the equivalent of Firefly doing an episode in Central Perk. it's bollocks. Not with 10,000 men should they do this, it is folly.
April 11, 2009, 4:55 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
Thanks for the warning.<br> So I gather they go to a universe where Red Dwarf is just a TV show?<br> I think I've seen the same plot used on Darkwing Duck.
April 11, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST
And, i want to see , well, very soon!!!!
April 11, 2009, 5:10 p.m. CST
cheap and shoody looking. That was my only quibble in another was cracking ep. cant wait for Waters of Mars. if you want to see what a great actress can do. watch lindsay duncan. shes a really class act.
April 11, 2009, 5:14 p.m. CST
hooked and I kept wathching. so it worked. those complaining about the fly aliens. it was 6.45pm on a sat afternoon. dr who is a kids show. actually family. I thought Lee evans was great. It made me laugh.
April 11, 2009, 5:29 p.m. CST
...the League of Gentlemen: Apocalypse movie? (The comedy, not the superhero movie). It's almost the exact same plot. Established and well loved characters discover they only exist in a TV show. Heartbreaking.
April 11, 2009, 5:35 p.m. CST
...this ranks as the worst episode ever. My God, I have really lost my faith in Naylor right now. The final part will have to pull off a miracle to make this three parter work now.<p> My guess? The whole thing will have been a defense mechanism generated by the squid. But clearly the budget has been spent already. Bobbyllew has promoted this on twitter, and I hope his opinion of this being "best RD ever" was a joke.
April 11, 2009, 5:44 p.m. CST
quick snapshot.... Oh Dear. Will add it to TB if Herc's just leaving it as is.
April 11, 2009, 5:46 p.m. CST
by Chris Elms
Donkey_Lasher, I never thought about the squid. It won't save these horrible episodes, but it won't piss all over the series anywhere near as much.
April 11, 2009, 5:46 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
No, I've never seen it. Hardly any UK television makes it over here intact; we Americans always have to remake your shows for some reason.<br>
April 11, 2009, 5:57 p.m. CST
I think you're right. Ratings have shown that there are enough Dwarfers out there. Just seen Llewelyns (?) comments on it and he's hinted at a imaginative finale. The new hologram appeared too conveniently and the talk of series 9 and 10 are a ruse. This might work, but I doubt it. As soon as they previewed the Earth segments I had low expectations, but this was very low on laughs. The first episode is much much superior.
April 11, 2009, 5:58 p.m. CST
Bullshit. He was in it, he has to plug it. <p> Fucking hell, I remember the douchbag who played Sybok in Trek V telling interviewers that it was the best Trek movie ever. Actors can hype their own shit with a straight face. It's part of the job description.
April 11, 2009, 5:59 p.m. CST
Doug Naylor in 1996. It might be a suicide mission. It might be a one way trip. But I think it's necessary. <p> Any volunteers?
April 11, 2009, 6 p.m. CST
of Brits? Whatever...kudos for the civilised talkback. All of you are a credit to the fanbase, despite what we have seen.
April 11, 2009, 6:02 p.m. CST
Harsh. Rob Grant needs to take some blame for this. Especially after what he has done since.
April 11, 2009, 6:02 p.m. CST
But only because I'm holding back complete judgment until after the bit I've been dreading since seeing the pics - Red Dwarf on Coronation Street. Anyway, if this is our 2009 (apart from two more series of Red Dwarf being broadcast) how come they can just drive onto Coronation Street? All of the clips I've seen appear to show the characters treating the Rovers, Kabin etc as if they're real places. Is this a world where Coronation Street is real? If so, the concept of Red Dwarf in the real world has been set up only to be abandoned immediately.<p>Either way, the concept is terrible. I'm glad that it seems people agree with me. I thought plenty might be in favour of such crossovers after I was the only reviewer on AICN to hate how Big Brother, The Weakest Link and Trinny & Susannah were used on Doctor Who.
April 11, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST
just people with manners.... :-)
April 11, 2009, 6:04 p.m. CST
April 11, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST
'cos mine ain't...
April 11, 2009, 6:11 p.m. CST
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
.... was a dog turd. Characters in a tv show aware they're characters in a tv show NEVER works. It's a horrible idea that should never, ever be used.
April 11, 2009, 6:21 p.m. CST
Maybe I'm just used to the trolls on here. Good to see a AICN talkback with manners as you say. :D
April 11, 2009, 6:22 p.m. CST
is the worst type of fan-wankery writing. I could believe that this episode was written by a 6 year old Blue Peter winner. With mental problems. <p> Donkey Lasher, you can't blame Rob Grant for any of this shit. He's had nothing to do with it. <p> Doesn't matter WHAT he's done since, he's had no hand in this undercooked whores abortion with a side salad of cold vomit. <p> What's for fucking desert Doug? What the fuck are you going to inflict on us tomorrow night?
April 11, 2009, 6:22 p.m. CST
The channel Dave, the cast and the production team have gone all out on this three part 'toe in the water'. It is obviously low budget, and lack of a studio audience has made the show feel different. That said, it's still Red Dwarf. The jokes seem fewer, but I laughed out loud a number of times during the second part. As for the complainers on the premise, switch your brains off and try to enjoy it for what it is. The crew have hopped into many different dimensions and universes so it is inevitable they accept this universe and adapt quickly, however silly and far fetched. I'm treating these episodes as more of a homage to what Red Dwarf is and hoping they get the proper series they deserve. If they do, some fresh writers would help get things back on track.
April 11, 2009, 6:34 p.m. CST
Not at all funny which was why I hated everything after series 6. Why would it be anything else though? It's the same hack writing it.
April 11, 2009, 6:46 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
Please don't give me the "switch off your brain" cliche. It's one of my pet peeves. I think the line was invented by Hollywood plants to justify their substandard product.<br> Whenever people say, "Switch off your brain" it always means "it's crap" (in my experience).<br> BTW, I just remembered reading an old Star Trek novel that had the "alternate universe where Star Trek is just a TV show". So I guess the idea is not new.
April 11, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST
Red Dwarf was always at it's most hilarious with cheap effects, ropey model work and not much happening. The dialogue was what we all loved back in the early days. I guarantee the improv show will be funnier than the three parter, proving that Dwarf is funny on zero budget. They just couldn't decide what they wanted this to be. I hope to god it's a despair squid situation as this situation needs to get unfucked, and fast!
April 11, 2009, 6:50 p.m. CST
sooooooooo awesome it hurts
April 11, 2009, 6:50 p.m. CST
Bastards! Why did they feel to do that to Red Dwarf? The previous two seasons were patchy enough, we didn't need to see more nails hammered into the coffin. Coronation Street? Goodness me. I agree with an earlier post that the show has never been consistent but had some very good high points indeed and this is a total betrayal of its sci-fi roots. They've done alternate reality eps before and they have always been fairly decent. This was just lazy, the cross pollination of British low culture into fairly established and cherished sci fi shows like Who and Dwarf is so disappointing. Bastards!
April 11, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST
Tonight's Doctor Who special didn't turn into full blown AIDS like so many episodes have a tendency to do when RTD is writer. I nearly enjoyed it, apart from the flying bus which looked tacky. For once though I thought it was grounded in some solid if unremarkable sci-fi, the new aliens looked okay, and it didn't end in that horrible crescendo of mugging and noise that most of RTD's episodes do. Waters of Mars also looks okay. Crikey, what's happening?!
April 11, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST
The main creative force behind it, who was once good is now shit but doesn't know and probably will never accept it because their ego won't allow it. Fuck knows what happened to Lucas but with Red Dwarf you don't hgave to be a genius to work out that as soon as Rob Grant left the whole thing curdled. As long as Naylor continues to write it on his own without either getting Grant back or some new writing blood in, it will remain fucking crap and embarrassingly unfunny.
April 11, 2009, 6:56 p.m. CST
The end of series five was awful when they thought they were characters in a computer game......:-/ Tonight's episode was great fun. Nods and winks all over the place, I loved it.
April 11, 2009, 7:01 p.m. CST
I agree. I loved the earlier stuff. Maybe my expectations of the 3 parter were lower than yours but it did have some great gags. The comic book guy 'not' listening to music, Kryton's rebuke to the shop assistants opinion on 'techno-babble' and also the 'over-long' analysis of the photo to get the address of the nose-guy (Typical Red Dwarf, and a great dig at other shows that constantly flaunt and rely on 'impossible technology' for clues.)<P> 'switching your brain off' and 'lowering your expectations' should have been including in the Tv guide descriptions to allow everyone to enjoy this last ditch attempt to revive one of the great sci-fi comedies of the last few decades. I'm just glad I was prepared because I've enjoyed 'Back to Earth 1 and 2'.
April 11, 2009, 7:04 p.m. CST
Back to Reality is a brilliant episode. It has sci fi themes that are still being explored today, in Dollhouse for instance. Comparing one of the best episodes in the shows history with the episode that sees the crew taking plot cues off kids on a bus in london before popping off to Weatherfield displays a level of intelligence or lack of understanding that explains why you loved tonights monstrosity. I bet you liked Phantom Menace as well.
April 11, 2009, 7:06 p.m. CST
was just another scene ripped from Blade Runner. Almost everything Rimmer says is riffed from Decker's analysis of the picture that leads him to the snake seller.
April 11, 2009, 7:07 p.m. CST
Just watched it on Dave Lister ja vu. The credit crunch line was one of the worst lines ive ever heard on TV. Pure embarressment for the actors and i hope the writer
April 11, 2009, 7:13 p.m. CST
Fair dues, long time since I've seen Blade Runner. Don't even remember that scene. Naylor will obviously need help if a new series is to work, but I'm just enoying seeing these guys in the roles again. Apologist? maybe... I just want to see a new season put together with budget and writers to match the best of yesteryear... and these 3 episodes need the ratings for that to happen
April 11, 2009, 7:15 p.m. CST
April 11, 2009, 7:16 p.m. CST
they'll just give you more of the same if they got a new series. Be honest in your criticism. <p> Let your hatred flow through you... yes...
April 11, 2009, 7:20 p.m. CST
A new series with decent writerswould be awesome, but unfortunately I think all the inoffensive part 1 did was ensure 2 million people were watching when part 2 came off the rails and into the annals of sci fi history as the one of the biggest fuck ups ever. sad times.
April 11, 2009, 7:21 p.m. CST
and i'm about to hit the sack, but i just wanted to say it's been a pleasure chatting with you lot tonight, cheered me up after seeing part 2 anyways.
April 11, 2009, 8:04 p.m. CST
was having it as a "so we're TV characters - we're not even real" scenario, when really all it needed and what would have made it funnier was just to say "we're in an alternative universe where our lives are a TV show". Perhaps all will be resolved neatly (I'm thinking that Coronation Street will be real - so whats real is a TV show and whats a TV show is real in this universe - or something) but am I the only who thinks theres going to have to be some very speedy resolution to all this? With just one episode to go it seems like theres a hell of a lot to cram in.
April 11, 2009, 9:01 p.m. CST
I mean, I was very, very gutted about the weird feel and lack of funny in part one, but I thought the second part was in a different league. It had moments that didn't quite do it, but for the most part it had some of the classic Dwarf style... and after 10 years I am grateful for that.<P> Yeah, they broke the 4th wall, but than can work, and frankly it can be fun when the whole thing collapses in on itself. See the finale of Moonlighting for that...<P> Hopefully Part 3 has the funny as well...
April 11, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
I just saw it and was shocked to see Hong Kong actor Richard Ng in there as Swallow. He was in a lot of great oldschool Jackie Chan movies.
April 11, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST
The only thing about Part 1 was when the Ruskie science officer showed up and no not just for the eye candy she actually seemed to bring a bit of life into what had up until then been some of the dullest tv ever, the way the actors were forcing every line was so goddamn cringworthy.<BR><BR>Part 2 I feel so sorry for everyone of the actors involved, throughout it I just kept praying it would turn from full train wreck mode to just being very fucking awful and maybe with a major miracle improve to rather terrible.<BR><BR>Doug Naylor is either a very twisted hack of a man or some evil genius who realised some series back that the natural progression of the show was to bring it down to the level of your average Dave viewer and thus setout to do just that.<BR><BR>They should never have agreed to this shit its just flogging the dead horse even more and whereas the first few times you might have got a sadistic laugh out of it, now its just pathetic.
April 11, 2009, 10:18 p.m. CST
The feel of the show has certainly changed without the audience, and while a bit ropey, some of the effects have been pretty ambitious and (dare i say) good. Lots of effects shots in here ... LOTS. I have to say, I felt Part 2 was pretty smart ... they've traded on the series' history and I think they've done so quite well. The comedy was pretty average at the start of part 1, but has picked up ... maybe a big finale is in order. Not really sure I want to see them meet Doug Naylor though. Naylor's comment in a recent interview makes a bit more sense now "I think we'll skip series 9, you'll see why when you watch the show"
April 12, 2009, 1:29 a.m. CST
Up to the end of series 6, there was at least three belly-laughs in each episode. That disappeared when Rob Grant left (apart from the genius creation that was Kill Crazy in series 8.) Robert Llewellyn, on his Twitter feed, says that most of the comments directed to him have been positive - maybe they were just being polite?
April 12, 2009, 1:44 a.m. CST
April 12, 2009, 1:59 a.m. CST
Search your feeling's you know this to be true.<BR><BR>As for RL well maybe they not being polite as Dave viewers usually drool at the mouth and think most things are awsome.<BR><BR>I can see alot of them actually liking it, btw anyone know what the viewing figures were like?
April 12, 2009, 2:07 a.m. CST
Coronation Street actually is seen here in the Washington State, and in Michigan and Vermont. Year old reruns play on Canada's CBC, which is on basic cable here.
April 12, 2009, 2:10 a.m. CST
PBS in America since the 80's.
April 12, 2009, 2:29 a.m. CST
First off, I just want to say that, like cool_britannia79, I'm enjoying chatting about these episodes with fellow fans. Irrespective of peoples' views on their quality, I'm enjoying the civilised and informed discussion (a lot more than the episodes, I'll tell you that). We clearly all know our Red Dwarf. <br><br> Anyway, I TB'd earlier about the possible "despair squid" scenario. I think that will probably be the resolution. They're still on RD, they're not really back on Earth. The whole thing is an illusion... which begs the question... why bother doing this story then, especially after a 10 year absence? It worked well as the finale of RD5. I remember watching that episode as a kid, jaw dropped, not knowing whether they were being serious or not. The main difference with that story though was that it was FUNNY and on the back of a pretty strong series/season. This? It just seems a bit ill-conceived especially after so long from our screens. <br><br> Imagine an Easter special of BlackAdder where Tony Robinson, after digging around for coins and shit on Time Team, is magically transported to the trenches of WW1 and finds himself alongside Captain BlackAdder et al. He could then tell these characters that not only are they fighting in a futile war, in which they all die, but that the war itself isn't even real - they're just charcters on a TV show! Oh the laughs we'd have watching George trying to comprehend the situation while SlackBladder sticks a pistol in his mouth and pulls the trigger. This is how these episodes feel to me. We are witnessing the suicide of Red Dwarf.<br><br> <br><br> But I think you raise a good point, Cedar_Room: "Perhaps all will be resolved neatly (I'm thinking that Coronation Street will be real - so whats real is a TV show and whats a TV show is real in this universe - or something." <br><br> There certainly could be something in that. The whole story could be a dig at TV's ongoing obsession with "reality TV". The despair squid scenario / parallel world is a place where reality and fiction/unreality have become indistinguishable. The Red Dwarf crew wouldn't be the first people to have their lives broadcast to the nation. For those people, where does reality end and fantasty begin? It could also be a dig by Doug Naylor at TV execs: he couldn't get the funding for a new Red Dwarf series because it was too expensive to make compared with dross like Big Brother. After all, these shows have a massive cast of characters and you don't have to pay any of them a penny or write any scripts. <br><br> We could find out that the resolution is somewhat satisfying... or at least not the abomination it currently appears. Doug may pull it out the bag with a big "fuck you, BBC! - with your cheap, low-brow, dumbing-down reality TV agenda. You and channels like you have killed the traditional British sitcom in favour of this shit". <br><br> But all these points could have been made quite easily without a drive down fkn Coronation Street! My mum watches Coronation Street. She doesn't watch Red Dwarf. Who are you trying to appeal to here???<br><br> Besides, all this wouldn't matter one jot if these episodes were actually funny. If the scripts were actually witty. Sadly, they're not. There are no jokes, no gags, no punchlines. A few chuckles here and there (like the dvd/video joke and the long-winded CSI photo gag) but there's still too much situation and not enough comedy for my liking.
April 12, 2009, 2:39 a.m. CST
Nicely done - solves any issues about unresolved cliffhangers nicely...
April 12, 2009, 2:57 a.m. CST
I guess it makes more sense to keep this TB going than start a new one with each episode. I'm sorry about it being in one big block. 10 years of coming to AICN and I still don't know how to paragraph in TB. Here goes..... Hi, Herc.....Oh Dear. I like shows making a bold statement. To make a change to the order. To shake it up a bit. To say something new.... What this said was .... 'We haven't got a fucking clue'. A dimensional portal is opened up, returning them to 21st century Earth and exposing the fact that the guys are really characters in a TV sci-fi comedy show called...... Red Dwarf!!! And apparently there was a series 9 which conveniently time wise (and budgetary) dealt with the loss of Kochalski...... I wish I was making this up. It IS an interesting premise but its one that should be dealt with in an 'expanded universe' way. By having it in the show it is now canon so to speak. There is now no way any future shows can be seen as a further adventure of the crew of Red Dwarf, 3 million years from Earth. It's now just a TV show. We know it and they know it. The bubble has burst. Maybe there is some incredibly clever writing coming in the third part. Maybe Naylor has a trick up his sleeve to make this an aberration of Red Dwarf's own timeline and reality. But on the evidence of this second part I don't think that's likely. The irony is that this part was funnier than the first part. Cat was back on form, Kryten attempts to blend in, Rimmer edging towards the true smeghead and goit we all know. I will watch the last part tomorrow. But I now feel what I'll be witnessing will be the last few breaths of a beloved pet, who's just had the needle to end its suffering and I'll be stroking its head saying I'll miss it, feeling the last warmth of its body on my fingers..... And then I'll get a new pet. That new Star Trek looks promising..... Gabba-UK
April 12, 2009, 3:18 a.m. CST
Hey Gabba, you can use HTML line breaks to create paragraphs. If you want to start a new line enter < br > after your text (remove the spaces so it's 4 characters long). If you want to create a new paragraph enter two of them: < br > < br > (again, without the spaces). AICN doesn't support paragraph tags for some reason.
April 12, 2009, 3:26 a.m. CST
..although I did chuckle at the comic shop owner and the photo gag. Overall a rip off of League of Gentlemens Apocolypse - which did 'breaking the forth wall' much better
April 12, 2009, 3:55 a.m. CST
totally agree mate, League did all this much better years ago. I'm intrigued to see if Naylor can save the day tonight, fingers crossed for the despair squid! I'm almost expecting a phoneline to pop up after the end of act 3 asking the audience to vote if they want to see series 9 and 10....
April 12, 2009, 3:58 a.m. CST
it's just good to watch
April 12, 2009, 4:21 a.m. CST
I remebered why I hated the show the first time around. Bad telly, bad boy.
April 12, 2009, 4:46 a.m. CST
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert! Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb. - classic
April 12, 2009, 4:48 a.m. CST
Fucking. Hell. Say goodbye to Red Dwarf for ever people, 'cause after this there will be no more. Naylor has just nailed down the lid on the coffin and shat on it for good measure. It says alot that we can actually put aside the fact there were no laughs as not being the worst thing about last night's episode. Naylor ripped off the League movie's plot (which was fucking shite anyway) and reduced the characters to hawking the DVD release and, unbelievably, the Dave channel itself IN-SHOW. RIP Red Dwarf. No one should have to die like that.
April 12, 2009, 4:52 a.m. CST
...because its sad to see them in such a terrible on-screen car crash, but did none of them think when they read the script that they should have kept well away?
April 12, 2009, 4:58 a.m. CST
...sorry to go on, but anyone who uses the argument, "It's been 10 years so just be grateful you're getting more" really can fuck off. A starving man will not thank you for a turd sandwich. Was anyone really happy when Lucas strained out his prequels, or hacked up the new Indy? No. Because they were shite. And if you can't come up with something worthwhile, then leave it the fuck alone. Leave these things with a good reputation and some dignity, instead of fucking them up for no reason.
April 12, 2009, 5:01 a.m. CST
That's exactly how I feel. And the fact they're showing old Dwarf immediately afterwards just highlights how shite Back to Earth really is. Why didn't anyone involved in the show pipe up with the fact that it's lame beyond belief? Were they given the script on the day?
April 12, 2009, 5:12 a.m. CST
Part one was chuckle free, slow until Big Suze turned up and generally seemed a bit superflous but I really enjoyed part 2. Again it wasn't actually very funny but at least it was clever, if not original.<p>BTW what happened to Holly?
April 12, 2009, 5:20 a.m. CST
...is incredibly depresssing, because it really drives home how far the show has sunk. I think one of the problems with Doug Naylor is that he's not actually interested in writing a comedy. It seems like he wants to write serious sci-fi, hence the glossy effects & post-modern plotting which disappears up its own arse. Hence: a Red Dwarf with no laughs. Anywhere.
April 12, 2009, 5:25 a.m. CST
I failed to see any sign of clever. Funniest character was the new Hologram they just killed off. Her saying Rimmer was 'bit crap' genuinely made me laugh, that was the only time i chuckled though.
April 12, 2009, 5:29 a.m. CST
...talk about damning with faint praise. This is a comedy program which you say "wasn't actually very funny" (and that's really understating it). And clever? If you count ripping off the entire plot of one bad film and carbon copying scenes from a classic film, then yeah...
April 12, 2009, 5:30 a.m. CST
Yup, Rob Grant brought the humour and Doug Naylor brought the Sci Fi, as far as I can tell. Knowing that this was a Grant free zone I expected it to be light on laughs.
April 12, 2009, 5:33 a.m. CST
God is disappointed with all of you here.
April 12, 2009, 5:34 a.m. CST
God does not exist in this dojo.
April 12, 2009, 5:43 a.m. CST
Yeah that's about right! I enjoyed it and am looking forward to the conclusion but I'm not saying it was outstanding or anything. It was just like finding a pair of old tatty comfy shoes. I understand the criticism, hell I was trying to find things funny in episode 1 but failed. I dunno, I just 'liked' the second episode.<p>What was clever about it? OK well maybe clever was not the right word but it was an interesting take on the concept. Like the way they explain why DVDs become obsolete, whereas its actually because they just used videos in the show which was made before DVDs were invented.<p> I totally agree its not a patch on the earlier series or some of the books but I still enjoyed it. So sue me. Can't wait to see Dave meet Craig Charles on Corrie :D
April 12, 2009, 6:07 a.m. CST
But I'm not going to be watching this. Any of it. As soon as I heard that it was being made by 'Dave' and not the BBC, i became wary.<p>Hearing that the characters would somehow end up in Corronation Street was enough to convince me not to watch. I'm happy with my memories of the old show and now just want to let it die peacefully, like a kindly grandmother on a life support machine. Turn the machine off Doctor, she's had her time. Let her go.
April 12, 2009, 6:08 a.m. CST
I can wait until the sun supernovas and destroys the earth before i see that. That's absolutely not what red dwarf is about.
April 12, 2009, 6:25 a.m. CST
In case Herc chooses not to post the reviews sent in for part 2, I'll follow Gabba and post mine here.<p>But first a test of paragraph breaks (they used to work for me).
April 12, 2009, 6:27 a.m. CST
Assuming, of course, that cool_britannia79's post is still directly above me.<p>If not, I may or may not agree with the above post.
April 12, 2009, 6:28 a.m. CST
The crew succeed in opening a portal to another dimension. Just before they go through, the machine tells them that their own dimension is "invalid". Lister, Rimmer, Kryten and Cat are then sucked through into a version of Earth in 2009. There, they discover that they are in fact fictional characters from a TV show called "Red Dwarf".<p>When I heard that the new specials would be mainly set in our own 2009, I really hoped that this would not be the basic concept. As soon as the programme starts trying to be a clever exercise in intertextuality, it ceases to be Red Dwarf. This part only has a few laughs and operates almost as a straight drama, purely in order to push the plot forward.<p>Even though I dislike the concept of the Red Dwarf crew discovering that they are fictional and exploring our own world, I will admit that it works on its own terms (just not as an episode of the Red Dwarf I know and love). The story flows much better than Part 1, which kept changing pace abruptly. From the sleeve of a display case for a "coming soon" DVD of "Back to Earth", the Dwarfers discover that their current adventure takes place after Series 10 of Red Dwarf. The plot of this forthcoming DVD is that the crew discover that they are not real and are about to be killed off in a final episode by their creator. They then "embark on a Bladerunner-like quest to find their creator in order to beg for more time to live". (From preview clips, I expect more direct references to Bladerunner in the next episode).<p>This, of course, is what proceeds to happen in our own "Back to Earth". With the help of a mildly insane comic shop owner and a stolen Starbug car designed by the obsessed chief of the Red Dwarf fan club.<p>To place this story in context it must be noted that, in this universe, there has been a Ninth and Tenth series of Red Dwarf. Kochanski was (apparently) killed off in Series 9. But fans speculate that she's not really dead and simply left Lister, because Kryten was the only witness to her "death". They think he may have lied to Lister to protect his feelings or stop him going after Kochanski. Nothing is said about Series 10.<p>I found the performances in this episode to be stronger than in Part 1. The actors are now fully inhabiting their characters. There aren't many laughs, but what humour there is is quite strong. I particularly liked Lister attempting to explain that he isn't Craig Charles to the comic shop owner. And the best bit was near the end when Rimmer outwits the new female hologram in a wonderfully brutal manner.<p>The episode ends with the set-up for the next episode of the Starbug car driving onto Coronation Street. I'm hoping for more laughs next time, but Red Dwarf meets Coronation Street is not something that I have been looking forward to.
April 12, 2009, 6:34 a.m. CST
close, but no cigar friend!
April 12, 2009, 7:06 a.m. CST
Thank you, you're professionals all. I still say we should trash dave's fucking lights though, fuckin' amateurs.
April 12, 2009, 7:45 a.m. CST
But I figured that if there was ever a time to go full-on geek, it was over new Red Dwarf episodes :-P I have to say that I was hoping for something a bit different myself; I mean, there are so many possibilities for a Sci-Fi show, that spending the majority of time on Earth in 2009 seems like a waste... despite the lack of jokes in the first part, seeing Lister and Rimmer sitting in a new sleeping quarters still made me smile... but it's not fair to rate a new show based on nostalgia.... I agree with a few of you regarding the 'despair squid' scenario; it all seems a little too convenient... the only thing that makes me think otherwise is the fact that they dealt with the shock of not existing way too easily; I mean, in a half-hour ep in season 5 they still managed to convey some emotion when they found out their lives weren't real! Anyway, the main thing I wanted to say was this: who else has noticed the Cat leaving little rockets behind in a few of the scenes? It reminds me of (big geek reference) the 'Better Than Life' book where Lister has 'Dying' tatooed into his arms in real life, so he could find out he was in a game... obviously leaving little rockets behind is slightly more TV friendly :-)
April 12, 2009, 7:56 a.m. CST
Cat's little origami references are again directly lifted from Blade Runner. I don't think they mean anything except to point out part 2 is ripping off Blade Runner. The season 5 finale you're referencing is Back to Reality, the same episode I referenced last night. That episode was brilliant, the 'reality' they discover is so facist, the future world so effectively conveyed in nothing more than a car park, and the car chase that's actually the boys sat on crates is so hilarious, it's my favourite episode. They tried to kill themselves after discovering their life back on Red Dwarf wasn't real, in Back to Earth, they just shrug their shoulders and go 'meh'.
April 12, 2009, 8:14 a.m. CST
Seven and Eight were bad enough but this crap is embarrassing. How is forcing the four men together, in the exact same scenario make any sense? Rimmer is a hologram again? Ok. Lister single? Ok. Red Dwarf crew dead? Ok. Scutters back? Ok. Old music from season 1? Ok. Looking at Craig and Barry was depressing. They look sooooo old, weary and over this. Putting them in this old scenario in the old suits with really bad script is just appauling. Why on earth would they torture the fans and characters of the show like this? It would be like getting the old Seinfeld cast out to do the puffy shirt episode again. Tired, unfunny, weak, and contrived. Let's hope they either get Naylor and Grant back together and write a decent story or just let the series die a miserable death (which it already has). Pray for a part 2 of season 6's finale when Starbug appeared to be destroyed and Red Dwarf was still missing (fans no what I mean).
April 12, 2009, 8:19 a.m. CST
Well, critical though we may be, no one could accuse us of not caring or indifference. This is good work, sirs.<br><br>Back To Reality: Great episode full of classic moments. We all know and love it. If this is a despair squid episode then it's inferior to that episode, just as Emohawk was inferior to Polymorph. That said, at least Emohawk TRIED to be funny even if it was a rehash.<br><br>So we're all in agreement it's a rip-off of LoG's Apocalypse with so many nods to Blade Runner it's developed a twitch but maybe we'd all be a little more forgiving if it just had some fucking jokes. JOKES, Naylor! Make me laugh will yer! That testical joke was great (if a little old - c'mon, who hasn't heard testicle/tentacle before?!). There were a few more nice moments too but strip them out and there isn't enough comedy in this "special" to make a 30 second YouTube compilation.<br><br>BIG disappointment.
April 12, 2009, 8:25 a.m. CST
Sorry, had to do that. This wouldn't be an AICN talkback without at least one of those. <br><br>Now back to the intelligent and civilised critique...
April 12, 2009, 8:28 a.m. CST
It took the original idea and was much funnier. Rimmer without his bitterness? Cat without his cool? Gold!
April 12, 2009, 8:37 a.m. CST
but they're both great episodes. I just had a thought, with blade runner and Kochanski being referenced to death, could we see a showdown with the creator featuring 'the actress who played kochanski who is still alive in this dimension' playing sean youngs role?
April 12, 2009, 8:59 a.m. CST
I have to say, I really enjoyed Red Dwarf VIII and was surprised a series IX didn't follow hot on it's heals. <br><br>I think most fans are pretty divided on the various post RD II seasons/series. For example, I thought VI was generally awful - a tired rehash of V, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Gunmen: I never liked it. I didn't like it when it was first broadcast and I didn't like it when I watched it again on DVD. Psirens was pretty good and I enjoyed Legion but every other episode was below par. <br><br> I thought VII was a vast improvement over VI. Tikka to Ride was a great comeback episode and very funny ("Where'd you find this chicken, Kryton?" "It's not chicken, sir, it's that man we found.") I thought the original Rimmer's departure episode was both funny and poignant. AJ actually evolved (albeit somewhat rapidly) into the person he always wanted to be and ventured off to fulfil his destiny. His departure was both true to the series and the character. His return in VIII as the reincarnated version of his former self was nothing short of genius and respectful to that story. Like others, the live audience and Rimmer were missed. Kryton became annoying. But there were also some good sci-fi stories in there. I particularly liked Ouroboros and the final episode which marked Holly's return. Lister trying to pick up that ball was funny as was Kryton trying to explain the Nanobot resolution to the crew. Not a great series but I think better than a lot of people give it credit for.<br><br> As for VIII - I can only think of 2 duff episodes: Pete part 2 (Pete part 1 was actually very funny) and that dreadful finale. The other episodes were entertaining and the new characters, such as Killcrazy, added extra comedy foil. I think VIII was RD's strongest series since V. It was brave to shake it up a little, the return of the captain and crew, and while moving away from the original premise, at least brought the dialogue based humour and monster of the week comedy of previous series together nicely (for me at least). I can't really knock VIII. I find it far more re-watchable than VI.<br><br>So I was surprised there was no IX a few years after - a series that would wrap up the resurrection storyline and leave the 4/5 characters and Holly alone on the ship to continue once more. It was a shame it never happened. I didn't know exactly what to expect from these specials but this definitely wasn't it.
April 12, 2009, 9:02 a.m. CST
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
... is the arrogance of that second episode. The crew seem to have ended up in a universe where Red Dwarf is shown and loved everywhere. Kids talk about it, comic book shops sell only Red Dwarf merchandise (and a single Silver Surfer toy, I noticed). In fact the one person who criticises the show is made fun of for having a "small penis". There were no mentions of the show losing its way in the later seasons or any self-depreciating stuff like that that might have warmed me to the idea of them being real world. I think Doug Naylor has got lost inside his own arse.
April 12, 2009, 9:06 a.m. CST
i said the same thing yesterday. the show has definitely crawled up it's own arse.
April 12, 2009, 9:09 a.m. CST
VIII was much better than VII which is very bad. The new episodes are even worse. Season IV, V, and VI were the peak. Consistently hilarious.
April 12, 2009, 9:11 a.m. CST
On reflection, it wasn't *that* bad - it was far better than that Jane Austen episode of VII (which was absolutely dire) - I just remember feeling at the time it was more of an excuse to get Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbly back than anything else - so in terms of rehashing I suppose it was 3 for the price of 1. A few good gags but a rehash nonetheless.
April 12, 2009, 9:19 a.m. CST
Even though it isn't funny. I've lost count of people saying this is good even though it is light on laughs. ARE YOU F***INK KIDDING ME?! The whole point of Red Dwarf was the laughs. It was mostly a very creative and funny show that had a high re-watch factor. I don't watch RD for a science fiction story or drama. It was NEVER that. It only became that in season VII which was univerally hated.
April 12, 2009, 9:23 a.m. CST
And had some very nice nods to Blade Runner i.e. Nose World and Cat's origami.
April 12, 2009, 9:25 a.m. CST
Is a very bad sign. Seriously, it would be like watching a new SW film with Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher flying around in the Millenium Falcon. Really, really, depressing. Nobody wants past glory tainted by desperation. That's how the new RD feels. They should have just made a sequel to season 8 but made it funnier.
April 12, 2009, 9:26 a.m. CST
I agree: I think V was the peak and VI managed to capture some of the old magic but on the whole I think VI also demonstrates the show was beginning to run out of ideas (hence the rehashing). I think VII made a decent attempt of recapturing the essence of earlier series with a new direction (even if it didn't quite pull it off) and VIII thought it would try to do something new altogether, with understandably mixed reception. <br><br> Now it seems, sadly, the show's run out of both original ideas AND jokes. A crying shame because this was a good opportunity to revive it. I have no problems with them going back to Earth because of budgetary reasons - they went back to Earth in Backwards, afterall - but the story and script for this special is so bottom drawer it's devastating.
April 12, 2009, 9:34 a.m. CST
Part 1 got just over 2 million. Part 2 got 0.9 million. It was up against Britain's Got Talent, but that's still a pretty big plunge.
April 12, 2009, 9:44 a.m. CST
we should have watched britains got talent too! only joking, i'm not retarded.
April 12, 2009, 9:51 a.m. CST
That's a 50+% plunge! I'm going out in an hour for the evening so they'll be getting one less person watching it tonight too (and my friends who I'm seeing obviously won't be watching it either). No doubt we'll discuss it briefly tonight and come to the same conclusion we all have. I'll watch the repeat tomorrow along with the "making of" I guess but more for a sense of closure rather than expecting anything miraculous.
April 12, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST
about the new shows is that it has made me watch all the old episodes again. Rimmer "I was Alexander the Greats chief eunuch" priceless.
April 12, 2009, 10:43 a.m. CST
Thanks for the explanation about the Blade Runner references; I only saw it when I was young, and I obviously wasn't paying enough attention to it at the time! Still, if that's the case I don't really get who they're trying to please by putting in a reference to a classic film for no real reason... but then I guess there's a lot about this 3 parter that I don't really get...
April 12, 2009, 10:53 a.m. CST
In Blade runner the simulants know their expiry date and track down their creator to extend their life. The cold nose shop, the snake skin in the bath, the photo analysis, the origami, even the temple style building in london glimpsed in the opening credits are all directly ripped from blade runner. i'm not sure why they're riffing off such an old movie. Surely blade runner jokes are SO 1980's?
April 12, 2009, 11:08 a.m. CST
Consider me utterly humiliated in my knowledge of all things Blade Runner... I'll definitely have to go back and watch the film again....! but anyway... was that the case just for the second episode? If so, did the first episode riff off anything else? Another question I have, for any Dwarf fans, is which book they preferred out of 'Last Human' and 'Backwards'? I know it doesn't exactly relate to the TV show, but seeing as people are saying Doug Naylor and Rob Grant are only funny together, what are your opinions of the two separate books?
April 12, 2009, 11:11 a.m. CST
i just bought the blade runner hd-dvd for £3 from gamestation. i've watched it 3 times in a month, bloody amazing. I didn't see any references in part 1 at all. There must be some still to come in part 3 from the glimpses in the opening credits though. Now you have one over me sir, i've never read the books. I did make a panthro costume for a fancy dress though if that restores my nerd points?
April 12, 2009, 11:12 a.m. CST
No, that's just creepy ;-)
April 12, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST
April 12, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST
I'm still kind of hoping that when the 3 episodes are taken in context, then it will feel more like a proper Red Dwarf show - between it being divided up into 3 pieces (just like other programs such as Family Guy and Futurama, they probably have an eye on the DVD release), and the adverts which, bless the BBC, we really take for granted being without sometimes - it's hard to take in the effect the full show will have.... as it stands though, and with the next episode being set in Coronation Street (!) it does seem to come off like the mini-programs that were created by some shows specifically for Comic Relief and Children In Need, years ago.... or maybe that's just me!!
April 12, 2009, 11:24 a.m. CST
Dude.... that's so wrong!! :-D
April 12, 2009, 11:27 a.m. CST
It fits with the first two books far better as a trilogy. Typical really as it's the Rob Grant one and Naylor did Last Human. Doesn't show much confidence in his penmanship does it?
April 12, 2009, 11:36 a.m. CST
...since I read the books but I think I preferred Backwards. Out of all o fthem though I preferred the first book, that literally had me laughing out loud.
April 12, 2009, 1:18 p.m. CST
rebirth or a death i wonder?
April 12, 2009, 2:20 p.m. CST
The first book was a gem and probably the nearest anyone got close to being funnier than Douglas Adams. Watching the 2nd one again on the PVR - great psiscan gag so far but this fictional character crossover shift won't fly with Red Dwarf like it did with the hyper-real league of gentlemen. Dave Lister is the last man alive, if he aint then its not Red Dwarf
April 12, 2009, 2:37 p.m. CST
I can remember reading the first book on the tube on the way to work, and I was in stitches and really laughing hard during the "They're dead Dave, everybody's dead" chapter at the beginning and made myself look like a right plonker as I was pissing myself so much :D<p>As for the resolution, it HAS to be some kind of variation of the despair squid because if not then they just invalidated the entire history of the show, which is not something you want to do after ten years.<P>That would be like having an Only Fools And Horses special where it turned out that Del Boy was a Millionaire all along, but he was just pretending to be poor.<p> Oh well, 20 mins to go, lets see if they pull it off. Swift half at the Rovers, anyone?
April 12, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST
They just wasted the H big suze without explaining how she got there in the first place. That totally took me out of the lame BR reference that wasn't funny anyway and now that starbug turns out to be a fans creation. I might not be back from that swift half Lloytron. Smoke me a kipper...
April 12, 2009, 3:07 p.m. CST
The rest is still shite.
April 12, 2009, 3:09 p.m. CST
watching the last one now. Craig Charles meet in RR actually worked Ok. Steve McDonald on crack as well it seems! I hope you're right Lloytron about dispair squid though
April 12, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST
odd start to 2nd half....
April 12, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST
..its another BR reference. Whoo.
April 12, 2009, 3:20 p.m. CST
..well called Lloytron
April 12, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST
sean young! they actually pulled that back from the brink. That last episode was watchable at least.
April 12, 2009, 3:30 p.m. CST
by Chris Elms
That was actually ok, here's hoping for a new series with some new writers.
April 12, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST
Way too many Blade Runner references, and some of the ideas were just clunky as fuck. Ok, so Craig Charles exists in their universe, but where are the film crew for it then? The last idea that maybe we're in a parallel dimension was OK but mostly it was just a trainwreck.
April 12, 2009, 3:32 p.m. CST
splitting it into 3 did them some real damage when as a whole it was actually passable.
April 12, 2009, 3:36 p.m. CST
Well again I liked it but it was nothing special. The TBers here were right about the squid (I can't take credit for that!)<p>It was funny in places but you don't resurrect a popular franchise after so long to make jokes about Steve McDonald and Craig Charles's alcohol problems or to have Chrie Barrie repeatedly cause himself groinal injuries (Which admittedly did make me laugh :D).<p>I was defending it after the second episode but the third went nowhere, and cause a whole string of problems. I mean come on, WE are the fictional reality because they had a hullucination? FFS!?<p>I just don't get why they brought it back, if that's all they had to offer.
April 12, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST
does that mean the facist reality from back to reality exists out there somewhere now?
April 12, 2009, 3:46 p.m. CST
It was the only thing it could be. I still say the bubble was burst but that was a better effort. I actually laughed out loud a couple of times... which is 4 times in 80 min of TV. Not a great ratio. The last episode didn't kill it.... but its on life support. I'd like them to have another crack at a full series but Doug Naylor really, really, REALLY needs to stop writing 'em.
April 12, 2009, 3:46 p.m. CST
"Somewhere out there are people that think we are a TV show and they are watching and laughing" - that's not this reality then as even the people that liked it said it was pretty devoid of laughs :D<p>They must have had a hell of a PR agency to put promo DVD cases and posters that take up entire stores when the script hasn't even been written yet.
April 12, 2009, 3:47 p.m. CST
"Your guitar was made from camphor wood"<P>Genius
April 12, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST
April 12, 2009, 3:51 p.m. CST
Viewing the show as a whole would have been a lot more enjoyable; at the very least we wouldn't have had the chance to come on here and whinge about what was going on at the end of every episode! Also, I think Lloytron makes a good point - surely there could have been a much more worthwhile plot after a 10-year hiatus... I mean, the 'and then I woke up, and it was all a dream' explanation is a pretty easy way out (don't get me wrong cool_britannia79, I loved 'Back To Reality' too, but I think we can both agree that it was handled slightly better!) Oh, and at least there was a point to the Cat making rocket ships;Blade Runner reference or not, it still seemed really weird!!
April 12, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST
turned out to be relevant lion-o, nice work! it was a wasted opportunity though. 10 years of stories bouncing around and then decided to recycle back to reality with a strange comic relief special vibe to it. naylor needs to stop writing the episodes if they do anymore. i reckon the guys on this talkback could do a better job.
April 12, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
A rehash, I take it?<br> Did they at least mention their previous encounter with despair squid?
April 12, 2009, 4:02 p.m. CST
it got a pretty decent link back to the despair squid, to be honest i think they saved it. nothing that happened had any relevance so in a way it doesn't matter how ridiculous or shit it was, it was all a hallucination. doesn't excuse the fact it had maybe 3 jokes in the whole hour and half, but i'll admit it wasn't the final nail in the red dwarf coffin i thought it was going to be.
April 12, 2009, 4:05 p.m. CST
Yeah, they talked about it at the end, it was a 'joy' squid (although even that's a bit strange; only Lister really mentioned that he had been feeling elated right at the end of the show, and it didn't have a bearing on the plot).... now going to watch 'Back To Reality' on Dave; although I'm not sure if it's a good idea for them to put on some of the best episodes right after the new one!!
April 12, 2009, 4:05 p.m. CST
Too many people were willing to write this off completely before the final episode and theyre quickly backtracking now. If this was a single episode in the course of a series i doubt it would have anywhere near as much hostility. Really, people are too harsh, this was a one off special for a series that was dead and had no future, made on a shoe string budget. It had everyone guessing wtf was gonna happen (whether they accepted it or not) and was much closer to red dwarf than the new doctor (everything that goes on in the universe happens in cardiff) who. Im glad they came back, im glad they made an effort and im glad it still felt like red dwarf. I just hope they get a full series out of it.
April 12, 2009, 4:07 p.m. CST
If you didn't like Part 2 then this, at best, was merely a mild improvement. Having the alternative world turn out to be a squid-induced hallucination does not excuse doing all that postmodern crap in the first place. I hate things which try to have their cake and eat it like that.
April 12, 2009, 4:09 p.m. CST
<br>when they were on Corrie with their crappy manc accents and when Prime Craig Charles made his 'I need to check back into The Priory.<br>Only problem is now their showing Back To Reality which is really just showing up these new episodes as very poor....
April 12, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST
Not my fault they decided to break it up into 3 seperate episodes and make at least 1 of the 3 the worst thing i've ever seen in my life is it. Looking at the viewing figure drop from episode 1 to 2, it was a mistake on financial as well as critical terms.
April 12, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST
and they're the 3 bits I laughed at too. I also liked cat slipping back into season 5 mode with the 'i'm gonna getcha little fishy' thing.
April 12, 2009, 4:16 p.m. CST
...I'm as happy as anyone to have Red Dwarf back on TV, and I'd also love to see a full series, with a better resolution to the story. However, I don't think its flaws can be blamed on the budget (it was never a problem in the past!), and just the fact that it was the first ever feature-length Red Dwarf meant that they had a great possibility to flesh out a good story, instead of taking from Blade Runner, and rehashing an old story... again, it was great to see the four of them together again, but even then, we didn't really get much time to see them interacting; it just seemed like a lot of exposition right until the end. Btw, does anyone know why Grant and Naylor stopped working together?
April 12, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST
at the creator's building were quite funny in a surreal way too :-)
April 12, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST
was that though?
April 12, 2009, 5:18 p.m. CST
by WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR
April 12, 2009, 5:21 p.m. CST
by WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR
I just watched all three and they weren't very good at all. My expectations were low so I wasn't disappointed, and it did genuinely raise a couple of laughs, but overall it was very weak. You'd have thought they'd have had some better ideas and jokes after all this time. But I dunno, credit for Dave for getting the thing back on the air while the BBC sat with their thumbs up their asses - if this can lead into a successful resurrection for the show then it works for me.
April 12, 2009, 5:22 p.m. CST
Actually I was defending it and then backtracking when I saw how it all turned out...<p>This was like bringing back Fawlty Towers, where Basil has been through anger management and patched things up with Cybil and their hotel is a nice little family getaway in Torquay.<p>Having watched Back To Reality and Marooned afterwards just highlighted how short of the mark this was.
April 12, 2009, 5:23 p.m. CST
It was alright, overall. Good enough that I stuck around to watch some of the older re-runs afterwards, and good enough that if they do commision anymore I would quite probably tune in. <br><br> Also, I used to have an account on here but for some reason it disappeared entirely and the option to create a new account was nowhere to be found. Suddenly it has reappeared and now O Goncho lives again! Hurrah. <br>I know no-one cares, but this is a big moment for me.
April 12, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST
April 12, 2009, 5:40 p.m. CST
just wanted to say to any one "on the fence" Re: watching this, Ok its not as good as some of the older classic's but when watched back to back as whole i think its quite good! it is no was as bad as X3 or the new x files movie!! odd comarisons i know but they are the last 2 things i saw that were total let downs, and as a BIG Red Dwarf fan i feard this would become "one of those". i am all for new eps, tho i admit it could have been funnyer i thorgt it was grate to see Lister being mature and realy fealing some emotion. I am not sure about all the Blade Runner bits, maby a nod hear and thier but i thing it was a bit much, notice how they riped off the music as well? i wonder if Sir Ridly will be pissed off??
April 12, 2009, 5:43 p.m. CST
It wasn't classic Red Dwarf but it was never going to be. But watching it all in one go I really quite liked it. I hope they get another shot at this and somehow persuade Rob Grant and Ed Bye to come back for one last great series. There is still life in the Crimson Short One.
April 12, 2009, 5:51 p.m. CST
Some of us care.<p>We're not all dickbloods.
April 12, 2009, 5:56 p.m. CST
first the despair squid and now ogoncho, it's a night of comebacks
April 12, 2009, 6:04 p.m. CST
Everyone loves a comeback
April 12, 2009, 6:07 p.m. CST
they fucking hate them.
April 12, 2009, 6:22 p.m. CST
I sent Herc a review, but won't post it here as it's pretty much all been said. But I just gotta say that I don't mind some kind of follow-up to BTR - as long as it avoids all this postmodern bollocks (which really isn't Red Dwarf at all). BTR made sense on its own terms because a collective hallucination was created to drive them all to suicide. But finding out that they were fictional characters was the best way to make them happy? There was a far better "return-home-but-not-really" story to be told than this one. But if there is to be a full series, can we please have a lot more humour?
April 12, 2009, 6:23 p.m. CST
no squid! no squid!
April 12, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST
Just thought I'd point out, what with people saying that this RD lacked ambition for being 'feature length' that it wasn't really much more than a 2-parter in length. When shown on the BBC, a Red Dwarf episode was 30 minutes with no breaks, whereas the Dave episodes had quite sizeable ad breaks. I've not timed it, but I'd guess 15 minutes or so of the total 90 minutes was gobbled by them. Oh, and for those people worried about the whole 'our reality is a hallucination' thing- firstly, it wasn't our reality, merely a similar one with RD's importance over-hyped by the Squid. Secondly, this piece of dimensional metaphysics came to us courtesy of Kryten, a droid designed to clean toilets who has displayed manifest incompetence in all fields of scientific endeavour- this being something which, in his own words, "they obviously neglected to teach at Toilet University... OK?!?"
April 12, 2009, 7:07 p.m. CST
Indeed, because even though its been a few months since I've been to London, I don't think they've built a huge fuck off Tyrell Corporation style building next to the Houses Of Parliament.<p>Having said that, if it's not our reality, which is plainly isn't, that makes the final scene even weaker as the reality where they watch Red Dwarf on TV wasn't even ours? Which means there are at least two universes where Red Dwarf is a TV show, one of which wasn't real until they ... man I can't even be arsed to finish the sentence, the conceit is so bad.<p>I mean come on, I could write a better story than that. Perhaps I should. Anyone got a contact number for Dave?
April 12, 2009, 7:11 p.m. CST
"BACK FROM EARTH" by Lloytron<p>Lister and Rimmer sit down in their quarters after returning from their hallucigenic trip.<p>LISTER: "That was fucked up"<p>RIMMER: "Yes, it was"<p> They sit in silence for 90 minutes.<p> FADE TO BLACK.
April 12, 2009, 7:49 p.m. CST
I liked it overall (LOVED the BR references...) but they could have had the crew going their separate ways to trace and "outdo" all of their "real world" counterparts.... - Craig from Corrie (alcohol challenge, ending in Lister winning and the real CC checking back into the Priory) - Robert from Scap Heap Challenge (where Kryten ends up making the Car-Bug out of junk, thereby winning the show) - Danny from some dancing stage show (a dance off with him and the cat) - Chris from "Chris Barries Massive Engines" or some classic car show (where they try to out-nerd each other about classic cars - nice nod back to the scene where AR is reading that magazine) Having "beaten" their "real world" counterparts, they return to Red Dwarf to find that it was Holly's doing all along - revenge for Lister leaving the tap on. I would've laughed...
April 12, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST
by Joe Mannix Jr.
Given, the first episode seemed a bit awkward. But by the third, I really think they got it. Seemed almost like a proper episode.
April 12, 2009, 9:06 p.m. CST
The blade runner stuff was funny. It was ok other than that. Nothing special.
April 12, 2009, 11:08 p.m. CST
I loved this, whole-heartedly. <br> <br> For everyone complaining on the lack of laughs...it felt to me like that was intentional. This was a eulogy for a long dead show drawing comparisons to when the fans and the laughter go away, down to the lack of of a laugh track (which I think threw everybody and made it SEEM less funny, which is surprising since I usually HATE canned laughter; but it not being there made me realize how much I missed it). It was, in many ways quite literally, an allagory for how to deal with 'killing off' some of your most beloved creations in a world that has soured on them and left them forgotten (the posts above decrying the popularity of RD proves that). The 'joy hallucination' wasn't any of the characters; it was Naylor's. That wasn't our world, of course; it was HIS dream world where RD was embraced, and went on to have a season 9 & 10. Where 2 random kids on a bus not only know who Dave Lister is, but understand him whole-heartedly ("I'm pretty cool. I don't take any smeg. And even though I'm disgusting, sometimes I can be quite brave." I had a goddamn tear in my eye!). It was a love note to a near and dear universe and characters, and a longing to continue that story in a world that's since lost interest and moved on. I could really see how people might feel that's 'light' on laughs. Because it was fucking bittersweet.<br> <br> And you know if I told you that truth, you know what you'd probably do? <br> <br> Laugh?<br> <br> Yeah...heh heh heh...they probably would.<br> <br> If only.
April 12, 2009, 11:11 p.m. CST
April 12, 2009, 11:34 p.m. CST
for a genuinely moving performance. Dave Lister. Who'd a thunk it?
April 13, 2009, 12:31 a.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
As a gag, Rob Grant burned Doug Naylor's wooden leg.<br> The wooden leg had been given to Doug by his father and was made of rare Javanese camphor-wood.<br> Doug Naylor has never forgiven Rob Grant for this.
April 13, 2009, 12:58 a.m. CST
<br><br>never watched the show before<br><br> Just watched it on Youtube... the first part was cringe-worthy and unfunny, almost gave up.<br><br> Second part was very good. Probably used too much of blade runner.. <br><br> I'm glad they were essentially dreaming all of this and not actually in our 2009, and didn't waste too much time with future-men-in-today's-word jokes
April 13, 2009, 1:13 a.m. CST
Torrents of rain today... ;-)<p>Anyhow, I thought it was funny, and poignant, but not overly so, as RD shouldn't be. Will buy the DVD when it comes out, and will try to make the effort to put the disc back in the case. Now they need a proper series in front of an audience.
April 13, 2009, 3:08 a.m. CST
yeah right. i know lots of comedy shows that are intentionally light on laughs, especially after a decade hiatus.
April 13, 2009, 3:28 a.m. CST
You've put my feelings into words nicely.<br> <br> I don't care if it was a bit light on laughs and I don't care if it was a bit of a retread, I still loved it.
April 13, 2009, 4:02 a.m. CST
loved is a very strong word.
April 13, 2009, 4:34 a.m. CST
I took my own advice and didn't comment after watching part two until I'd seen part three. Which was good, because I was in full-on 'the show is ****ed!' existential crisis. By the end, I was back to enjoying it as a proper Red Dwarf story - right as I was expecting it to be, and to want it to be, the last ever RD made.<br><br> Now I wouldn't mind just a little bit more, please? ^_____^<br><br> I gotta tell you though, during most of the 'okay, we're TV characters' and Coronation Street parts I was cringing so badly I was using facial muscles I didn't know I had. Like the Arrested Development series episodes with Charlize Theron before you know she's mentally retarded. Second time around I watched those and was in on the joke, they were great. I think BTE will be MUCH better on a second viewing for the same reasons.<br><br> (Where's the trust, eh?)
April 13, 2009, 5:22 a.m. CST
Thank God they reversed what was going on and went back to more traditional RD. Next time, show it as one TV movie. The second part will just have been switching off in droves otherwise.
April 13, 2009, 5:24 a.m. CST
..it's just we are the imagined universe, not them!
April 13, 2009, 5:33 a.m. CST
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
That's my review.
April 13, 2009, 5:42 a.m. CST
they weren't in our 2009, as our 2009 doesn't feature rimmer droids that answer the door, tyrell corporation buildings next to tower bridge and a tokyo cyberpunk district of london. if they'd just said it was all a dream, and left out the bollocks about the episode creating a new universe (which admittedly might be bollocks as as one talkbacker pointed out, it was kryten that said that) it would make sense.
April 13, 2009, 5:42 a.m. CST
As Lister was getting out of the car to return to reality, he should have paraphrased Bladerunner by saying to Kochanski something like: "It's a shame you're not real. But, then again, who is?"<p>There's no way they could have been in our 2009. As pointed out above, there's no Bladerunner-style buildings on the Thames. And there's been no Red Dwarf 9 & 10 in our universe.
April 13, 2009, 5:52 a.m. CST
i really liked it and hope they make some more. i do think Naylor needs to team up with someone else to write with.
April 13, 2009, 6:32 a.m. CST
You might be able to undo series 7 and 8 in that backwards universe, but not in this one (in joke, in joke). Wind it up quickly and neatly and get the heck out while you still have your last scrap of dignity, people.
April 13, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST
Naylor says that Series 9 has been 'retired'. So this means we will never get a resolution to the cliffhanger from Series 8. Saying that there was a Series 10 (even in an alternate universe) gives Naylor 2 options should there be a full series. The first is to do the Series 10 which precedes Back To Earth without Kochanski. The second is to continue from where Back To Earth left off, either searching for Kochanski or having found her before the series kicks off.<p>If they must have Kochanski (which Naylor seems determined to do, considering she turned up after all in the specials), then my preference would be to have a six part series. At least two episodes without Kochanski and find her in episode 3 or 4.<p>For me, these specials have been a mixed blessing. Besides them not being very good, it was disappointing not to have the Series 8 cliffhanger resolved. The only reason I welcomed more Dwarf was so that the show didn't have the indignity of ending on a cliffhanger.<p>So the good thing about the specials is that at least it didn't have a cliffhanger at the end. This would serve as a fitting end. I do hope for more, because I think half-hour stories with a studio audience could still work. But I really wouldn't want it to be dragged on for too long. 2 more series would be enough.
April 13, 2009, 6:41 a.m. CST
This could have been RD the movie, if put together. The second part really didn't work on its own.<p> Come on BBC, show some balls and give this another series.
April 13, 2009, 7:46 a.m. CST
the BBC or Dave?
April 13, 2009, 7:51 a.m. CST
The BBC own Hyperdrive though *hahaha*
Seems like not many folks dug the new episodes. Losers. If you're bitter about the world in your everyday life (yeah YOU) then there's not much you'll find funny. I waited til I had all three episodes and then watched em. And guess what? I laughed out loud from the very first minute. I was in the company of old friends. Haters, you can FAR COUGH.
April 13, 2009, 9:06 a.m. CST
to laugh out loud from the very first minute. you've made yourself look very silly in front of the nice British talkbackers.
April 13, 2009, 9:17 a.m. CST
Just a quick word to point out to those who may have forgotten, or conveniently ignored the fact, that practically every single new series of Red Dwarf largely ignored whatever was left over at the end of the season before it, or quickly brushed it aside. It's almost a Red Dwarf trademark and all part of the joke at this point, so to complain that this didn't continue on directly from the last season seems to be a little silly really.<p>As for the show, I just watched all three, and I've got to say that the first part felt very flat to me, but the show picked up during the second and third eps nicely enough, and while it wasn't classic Red Dwarf, I enjoyed it enough that I'd personally welcome another series of the show, especially now that they've have a bit of time to work themselves back into the groove. They do seem to work better performance wise in front of an audience though, it must be said.
April 13, 2009, 9:38 a.m. CST
Anyone who thinks that there will be any more after this, be it specials or a series, is kidding themselves. Naylor has just dropped a career-ending sized bollock. It was a unmitigated disaster and no one will want to touch Red Dwarf with a ten foot pole after this. Don't kid yourselves, and please stop with the "well, it wasn't that bad" bullshit. Its all over - RIP.
April 13, 2009, 10:20 a.m. CST
Yeah, I'm mentallllllly ill, what of it? And yes I laughed at the egg whisk joke that was in the first minute. I liked seeing and hearing the trademark Rimmer delivery again for the first time in a decade, didn't you? Unless you're able to make your own episodes, why not enjoy new Red Dwarf? Oh, and I'm from the Ministry of Silly Walks, so, I would look silly.
April 13, 2009, 11:27 a.m. CST
"He means 'Tentacle'" "I certainly hope so."
April 13, 2009, 11:43 a.m. CST
that sounds like one of those really ironic suggestions you get in shitty holiday brochures. why not enjoy a gentle stroll through the streets of beirut? or marvel at the wildlife in chernobyl.
April 13, 2009, 12:06 p.m. CST
Attempting some dramatic pathos.<br> <br> I think I mispoke when I said that. I didn't mean to intimate Naylor was sitting around going, "Well, I can't put TOO many jokes in here..." I meant there might not have been enough room to do the heart-felt good-bye he thought RD deserved and still have room for as many 'jokes'. I did feel it was rushed, and that there were many other avenues we didn't go down...because he was only given a three-parter on Dave, with a limited budget (overall, I thought the production quality was fantastic, though...minus the CG scutters). <br> <br> But c'mon...who didn't laugh out loud, long and hard, when Rimmer started dancing and singing then repeatedly slamming his crotch into the corner of the table (it's Barrie's reactions that were what killed it for me). <br> <br> "You get to hop me stoop him, sir..." *shrugs* "Hop me stoop him!"
April 13, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST
Don't forget it was two scripts stretched into three for the sake of the story. If it had been designed as three, the joke density would probably have been higher. ^_^<br><br> I miss Rob Grant's input as much as the next smegger, but Doug Naylor had a lot of things working against him here: a budget too small to afford an audience or multiple sets or a even a ****in' smart car, no time to rehearse, no time for reshoots, no Ed Bye in the director's chair, his material was stretched to three separate shows as they were shooting it... It's a wonder that anything even barely coherent came together. And at times it was quite a bit better than that.
April 13, 2009, 12:21 p.m. CST
Excellent points. :)
April 13, 2009, 12:26 p.m. CST
I was getting ready to prepare that exact argument. Laws, yes!
April 13, 2009, 12:27 p.m. CST
by monster man
any real red dwarf fan would just love the fact that they were all together again , it wasnt perfect but who cares , there were some great comedy moments and i hope this leads to a new season. SMEG ON
April 13, 2009, 1:16 p.m. CST
Yes, Red Dwarf has always brushed over cliffhangers in the past - from Lister passing the chef's exam onwards. But they have never been ignored altogether. I guess a decade-old cliffhanger was ignored by necessity and is purely an invite for fan speculation. But would anyone really have been happy with the last RD ever ending with "The Smeg It Is..."?<p>For that reason alone, I was of the opinion that any new episodes - no matter how bad - would be worth it just to give Red Dwarf a different ending. Now that the most recent Red Dwarf is no longer a cliffhanger, I cannot now say that bad Red Dwarf is better than no Red Dwarf. I would like to see what they could do with a full series, a proper budget, a decent shooting schedule and a studio audience.<p>This may yet happen after getting some of the highest ratings for a show on a UK digital channel. But unless it's better than VII & VIII, I wouldn't want any more after that. These specials may have been shot in a hurry, but Naylor had a decade to come up with material and jokes. If this is the best that he can do, then Rob Grant needs to come back in a hurry.
April 13, 2009, 1:18 p.m. CST
And it was a vast improvement over episode 2. It actually made me laugh and provided some of the material promised by episode 1.<br><br>The writing scene - nut whacking on desk, etc - was funny and I loved the little Robo-Rimmers. The Despair/Joy Squid was predictable but welcomed and I'm glad Kochanski made an appearance the way in which she did. I didn't mind the Blade Runner homage and as a conclusion it was pretty satisfying. Self-referential, but not in the cringeworthy way that episode 2 was, and wrapped the story up nicely. I appreciate the budget/time constraints of the show so will overlook any shortcomings in those respects.<br><br>Viewed as a whole, it is probably greater than the sum of it's parts considering everything and it was great to see Red Dwarf back on our screens for the first time in 10 years. If RD IX were to be made then I'd warily welcome it but Naylor seriously needs to get some other writers on board. I think the guys has completely run out of original ideas and jokes.
April 13, 2009, 1:26 p.m. CST
That's not to say that I think "Back To Earth" was good. It wasn't. It was bad.<br><br>Most of the jokes fell flat - that's when they arrived - and while I enjoy RD's quieter moments of reflection and pathos (such as in RD I and II) they still need to have humour. As many acknowledge this just wasn't funny. I wouldn't mind so much if Doug made a concious decision to have no comedy in it but he clearly tried and the vast majority of the jokes failed to raise a smirk let alone a chuckle.
April 13, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST
Spot on, my friend. Spot on.
April 13, 2009, 1:40 p.m. CST
I respect your opinion and I'm glad you enjoyed this special but I think you and your friends might be too easily pleased. Maybe you benefited from watching them all back to back but don't slate us for reviewing the special in 3 parts because that's exactly how Dave decided to broadcast them. I see no backtracking on this TB, just fans giving honest opinions of the show they saw as and when they were broadcast. "Back in the Red" was also a 3 parter and I found each of those parts entertaining as both individual episodes and as a whole. This didn't come anywhere near that.
April 13, 2009, 1:55 p.m. CST
Coronation Street. WTF was *that*? Why did they feel the need to do that? It was dreadful and I dare say I would have rated the whole special far more if that had not been included. It was an absolutely terrible, nonsensical and contrived way of shoe-horning in a "clever" encounter between Lister and Craig Charles.<br><br>For a start, and this may sound like nit picking, Manchester is probably about 200 miles away from London. So, in an effort to find out the identity/address of the Red Dwarf "creator" the crew - four grown men - squeezed into a customised Smart car and drove 200 miles to the set of a fictional TV show, somehow got past Granada security and on to the cobbled streets of the Coronation Street set. They walked into the Kabin, which is JUST an exterior - the shop is filmed in a fkn studio! - then back out again. Kryten talked to a letter box. They know about the Credit Crunch but don't know what a fucking post box looks like? Right. And it contained letters. Who the fuck are posting those?? Do they expect them to get delivered?! They then walked into the Rovers Return... which is ALSO just a facade! The inside is, again, in a studio elsewhere. But whatever...<br><br> They meet Craig and Steve MacDonald. They find out the location of the creator - London - and then squeeze back into the smartcar for another 200 mile trip back to London. Fuck me. Wouldn't it have just been easier to Google it??? Utter shit.
April 13, 2009, 1:59 p.m. CST
Hey, I watched this online, and really, I enjoyed it... The middle episode pained me a little when it went all META and frankly I was glad they took the SQUIDY way out of that scenario, but all considering it was fine. Now, a new series would need some fresh ingredients in the stew.
April 13, 2009, 2:08 p.m. CST
does appreciate the fact they are together again, yes. However, any real red dwarf fan also appreciates what the show used to be, what it is still capable of delivering, and would be rightly critical of such a wasted opportunity. looking back, the blade runner references were ok, the last episode once they left coronation street was ok, and i've already said 'bit crap' was the funniest moment for me. did anyone notice when they were falling through the blade runner glass, they kept slamming into glass that didn't break? lister and kryten both stopped dead and looked in pain before they moved to the next shot with everyone moving forwards again.
April 13, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST
Geeks desperate for stuff on the level of the Pythons and Douglas Adams have painted this series as far better than it actually ever was.
April 13, 2009, 4:49 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
... ignorant comments like "it was never funny" "overrated and unfunny".<br> We have the same problem in the States with the Simpsons. People saying that the "show always sucked, Family Guys is WAY better LOLZ"<br> I have to always jump to its defense with the, "Well, it WAS great" response.<br> That is why TV shows should quit while they're ahead. Seinfeld really wasn't the "Greatest TV Show Ever" like TV Guide claims, but people remember it that way because it ended when it was still on top.
April 13, 2009, 4:50 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
I'd like to plug the Red Dwarf entry on Bone the Fish (the replacement for jumptheshark.com)<br> You can vote for when you think Red Dwarf went downhill:<br> http://www.bonethefish.com/viewtopics.php?651
April 13, 2009, 5:04 p.m. CST
It was never funny. On the scale of UK humour it's slightly more clever than Benny Hill.
April 13, 2009, 5:16 p.m. CST
fuck you with a smegging kipper wrapped in 'oik'. early dwarf was never short of good, and at it's highest points was amazing. i'm aware i may have offended you there, so fuck you again just to make sure i really did offend you. on the scale of uk humour? what the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway?
April 13, 2009, 5:39 p.m. CST
April 13, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST
i get it now.
April 13, 2009, 5:53 p.m. CST
Even so, it's completely true that Red Dwarf is overrated - and unfunny.
April 13, 2009, 6:24 p.m. CST
No. You are wrong.
April 13, 2009, 6:25 p.m. CST
This 'episode' (if you call it one ep in 3 parts) was disappointing to say the least. I get the self-referential stuff and of course the lack of jokes was intentional (its not like he simply forgot to include them), the problem was it just missed the point of Red Dwarf. It was never about CGI or realistic sci-fi concepts, it was about the characters, and just happened to be set in space. <br> </br> Just because Naylor did something different with this 'last stand' (and lets hope so) don't get confused with thinking it was good. Some stuff was funny, but there was more stuff that was just so painfully bad (the banks joke, the fact that in this alternate earth Red Dwarf is everywhere, Craig Charles'priory gag) that it just took you out of the show completely. Rob Grant must be wondering when he can die so he can start spinning in his grave.
April 13, 2009, 6:34 p.m. CST
People who are complaining about the postbox, the Coronation street set and the continuity are missing the point that its obviously not 'our' earth, otherwise no 10year old kid would know who Lister is and Doug Naylor would appear as himself. Imagine how bad it would have been then.
April 13, 2009, 7:36 p.m. CST
by Mr Writer
I've been a diehard Red Dwarf fan from Series One. I absolutely love show and I was near heartbroken when it became deeply unfunny in Seven onwards (When Rob Grant left the writing team coincidentally). Series 1-6 is gold and always will be. Classic situation comedy combined with ingenious Sci-fi. I was cautiously looking forward to the new episodes, but fearful we'd get more of Series Seven and Eight. Thankfully, I was pleasantly surprised by Back to Earth. The first episode was Dwarf by numbers, but I got the feeling that was the intention. The second episode I probably liked the least because I wasn't keen on the idea they were really fictional characters at all although the Blade Runner references raised a smile. I also liked the references to events in Series Nine and Ten, which of course never happened. However thankfully the last episode and the reveal that the whole thing was an hallucination brought on by the 'joy' squid saved the day. It really turned the whole gimmick of these episodes around for me and although overall the three parter was a little light on laughs it was a huge improvement over the last two series and a definite step in the right direction. If that's the last Red Dwarf we ever get at least it's a solid end as opposed to the dire Series seven and eight. Red Dwarf is back and I've got to admit that watching those episodes put a smile on my face just like the classic shows did when I first saw them as a 10-year-old. Boys from the Dwarf I salute you!
April 13, 2009, 7:57 p.m. CST
That's all that matters. Red Dwarf doesn't come close to the amount of fun that's going to be dropped on us then.
April 13, 2009, 8:08 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
"On the scale of UK humour" would seem to indicate he's not from the UK. The "humour" spelling rules out the US (thank goodness he's not ours.) So I blame Canada for this Decimus idiot.
April 13, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST
A profoundly stupid show with nothing to offer. Much like AICN. It needs to be dropped like a piece of road kill. Stupid premise, extremely poor execution. Speaking of execution, let's try that with the cast.
April 13, 2009, 9:13 p.m. CST
by Chief Joseph
It was nice while it lasted.<br> I'm out of here, guys. It was fun while it lasted.
April 13, 2009, 9:13 p.m. CST
people who get on to and post on AICN to say it is stupid. Just seems like you're biting your own ass when you say something like that.
April 14, 2009, 1:22 a.m. CST
i fully intend to keep this talkback going to 10,000 posts chief, i'm gonna need your help! one thing i still don't get, how would learning you're a fictional character tand that everything you've ever suffered, loved or lost was for nothing and that you only had 1 episode left to exist leave you feeling joyous? If anything, it's despair (again).
April 14, 2009, 1:24 a.m. CST
The trolls and adolescent keyboard warriors have awoken from their Easter slumber. It's going to be down hill from here.<br><br> It's been fun and nostalgic chatting Dwarf with you all these last few days. Hopefully we'll all find it far more enjoyable in a year or so's time for a repeat viewing.<br><br>Irrespective of the things we loved and hated about this special, it was great to see Red Dwarf back on our screens. If it's the last episode ever then it's not entirely what I would have liked to have seen but at least better than the RD VIII "cliffhanger".<br><br>I'd like to see more specials, even a series IX, but I think Naylor is going to need assistance with the scripts. Until then, smoke me a kipper lads. It's been fun.
April 14, 2009, 1:34 a.m. CST
Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense... and the only person who felt joy was Lister right at the end and even he didn't look too overjoyed about it. It just didn't work; too contradictory.<br><br>I'd be happy to keep this going to 10,000 posts but it's going to be hard work between half a dozen of us who all agree it was lacklustre. Still, I'll keep coming back to see if any new *genuine* talkbackers / RD fans offer a perspective.<br><br>I'm certainly enjoying discussing these specials a lot more than I enjoyed watching them.
April 14, 2009, 2:36 a.m. CST
I watched it episode by episode, and on the initial viewing of each, I didn't like it. Not one bit. But after watching the first episode and being bummed out, a few hours later I watched it again... and laughed and enjoyed it. Same with 2 and 3.<br><br>It reminds me of when your favourite band come out of retirement and you listen to their new album... and it's not what you expected. You get a sick feeling in your gut. But after a few more listenings, your preconceptions go away and you realize it is good. Same thing here for me. It feels like proper Red Dwarf now.<br><br>I personally still dislike season 7. Somewhat dislike season 6. Don't get the hate for season 8. It was very much like the old Red Dwarf to me. Seasons 1 and 2 are the definitive Red Dwarf. 3-5 were awesome.
April 14, 2009, 6:31 a.m. CST
by Lost Jarv
it wasn't good either- and it's better viewed as one episode. <P>5/10.
April 14, 2009, 7:56 a.m. CST
by Tony fucknuts
Yeah, someone else mentioned it, but the genius of red dwarf was always the fusion of a basic science fiction premise with humour. Trying to inject too much sci fi and special effects was a huge mistake, and completely misses the point of why people watched it in the first place. I missed the old minature spaceships, and i don't buy the CGI nearly as much. Trying to make it more like a modern Dr. Who episode was pointless, and rehashing the plot of the most beloved episode was just plain lazy. If Naylor had any balls at all, he'd have finally finished the story, brought them back to Earth, had lister marry Kochanski in accordance with wahat they set up in the early series and just said a respectful farewell to a series that had its day a long time ago. Instead, we have an open ended conclusion that leaves the door open for more crappy "specials" in future. A complete and utter waste.
April 14, 2009, 11:05 a.m. CST
The entire scenario leading up to killing the 'Creator' and taking his magic typewriter was to get them to a point where they could create endless joy for themselves; I believe Rimmer's line--"Now we can live out the rest of our lives in hedonistic fantasy!" The problem was, they'd already built an immunity to the squid ink (joyous or despairing) from their last encounter in 'Back to Reality'.
April 14, 2009, 11:06 a.m. CST
Damn lack of edits...
April 14, 2009, 5:38 p.m. CST
Building an immunity to the "joy illusion" is a good point. But getting a magic typewriter doesn't seem like a recipe for joy. In Back To Reality, every facet of that world was drawn from their subconscious to create something they could not live with. So a joy squid should draw on their *unconscious* desires too. Not put them in a situation where they can live out their *conscious* desires. Otherwise they may as well just have imagined a Better Than Life device.<p>If they were going to explore the concept of happiness you know isn't real versus loneliness in reality, I would have preferred something closer to the BTL segments of the first two books. Now that really was poignant.
April 14, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST
I guess no-one's reading now that this has gone from the front page. But the ratings run something like Part 1 - 2.2m. Part 2 - 0.9m. Part 3 - 1.0m. Pretty big plunge, but I'd like to see how Monday's repeat of all 3 parts did. I haven't been able to find that yet.
April 14, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST
Interesting theory, and I appreciate at least one Red Dwarf fan not resorting to labels, curses and insults when confronted with a contrary opinion.
April 14, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST
and biased, unfounded LABELS and INSULTS.<br> <br> QED
April 14, 2009, 11:39 p.m. CST
Very good point (and really, the books WERE always a little bit better than the series). Maybe it's a difference in the two genders of the squid?<br> <br> The arguement could even be made that the 'joy squid world' WAS pulling from Lister's unconscious desire to feel fullfilled as a decent human being ("You're pretty cool...you don't take any smeg...and even though you're disgusting, sometimes you can be pretty brave") and the chance to find Kochanski, as well as Rimmer's desire to be the stand-up, brave smegger who openly defies his creator...but I got nothing for Cat and Kryten.<br> <br> I still hold to the idea that this WAS very meta-fictional in the end, in that the 'joy squid world' wasn't the hallucination of the characters, but of Naylor himself. Just a thought. :)
April 14, 2009, 11:40 p.m. CST
Needed to get one more capitalized 'WAS' out of my system. Oh, that's two actually!
April 15, 2009, 4:16 a.m. CST
...for a digital cable station named Dave? The STARGATE shows have run for over a decade with about 2 million viewers an episode on the US SCI FI Channel, and that's out of a nation of 300 million people.
April 26, 2009, 8:57 p.m. CST
It was a little heavy-handed with the Blade Runner references, but it worked as a whole. <p> I would love to see the original Kochanski back. I always thought she was hotter. But it was nice to see Kochanski Ver. II show up in this one. <p> All in all, it was a good effort for a show that ended on a very bad point. It essentially erased Series VIII, which is fine with me.