Cool News
‘Not Anymore!!’ DOLLHOUSE 1.8!!
I am – Hercules!!
Last week we learned:
a) The Dollhouse is a subsidiary of the Rossum Corporation, one of the Big Evil group of companies that includes Weyland Yutami, Veridian, Massive Dynamic and the Gizmonic Institute.
b) Caroline, who used to be in Echo’s body, was a lot like Eliza Dushku’s character in “Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back,” rescuing helpless animals and the like.
c) Somebody in the “Dollhouse” writers’ room quite enjoyed the “Naked Time” episode of “Star Trek.”
d) Reed Diamond can be as funny as that Topher guy given half a chance.
e) Olivia Williams is not above doing her own stunts.
In tonight’s installment, “Needs,” yet another thing goes terribly wrong:
When Echo, Sierra and Victor awaken in the Dollhouse with most of their original personalities and memories intact, Echo leads the charge to free the Actives from their apparent captivity and escape the Dollhouse forever. Meanwhile, Ballard discovers the Dollhouse is closer than he thinks. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic; Miracle Laurie as Mellie; Teddy Sears as Mike; Emma Bell as Tango; Skyler Stone as Jimmy; Angel Desai as Sophie; Vincent Ventresca as Nolan; Joe Wandell as Adams.
9 p.m. Friday. Fox.
SHIPPING NOW!!
Herc Says This Prequel
To Abrams’ Movie Rocks!!
Also In April?
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
SHIPPING NOW!!
Herc Says This Prequel
To Abrams’ Movie Rocks!!
Also In April?
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
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+ Expand All
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FUCKING FIRST! FIRST FIRST FIRST! And on a Joss Whedon threat no less!!! Things are looking up!!!
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Fuck...a typo on my first "first."
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Well, I was one of you. But this show is really getting much, much better.
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but it's definitely improving. Maybe 'cause Deshku has less to do? Or just 'cause the plots kicking in? Either way, I'm looking forward to tonight.
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And notes for FOX!
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Don't let this be a giant fake-out episode. I'm hoping that this will shake up the status quo for the rest of the season (hopefully the whole season...)
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Damn Supernatural is good!!!!
Thank you to the rouge talkbackers that turned me on to Supernatural (and to Netflix for getting me caught up).
Man, Supernatural kicks all kinds of Russian Monkey ass.
I have no idea what they are going to do for Season 5. In one of the DVD commentaries the creator said something about wanting to end after season 5, but season 4 is non-stop balls-to-the-wall (a little more Bobby would be nice).
Shame they didn't have the budget for the arch-angel.
Damn
..
PS: Life on Mars (US) ending sucked. -
So they want to show us who these people are, so that we might root for them.
How do we do that?
Well, let's just have them wake up like that in the teaser. It doesn't matter. We'll hit the RESET button at the end of the hour anyway. And we'll blame it on the "mole". Yeah, that excuse is going to be our get-out-of-inconsistency card for the next while. -
I thought it was just going to be maybe a cute little nothing of an episode. But damn.
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My initial reaction was, that I was just stunned. And I thought "WTF?" and was all ready to hate it.
But on sober reflection, I realised I may actually like it. A lot. It was just so unexpected that I was thrown, and didn't really know what to think about it.
I like it for a number of reasons. Given the differences between the UK and US show, the coma explanation would not make sense.
Given the weird little things (like the miniature robots, the faces over faces, the shots of Earth outside the window, etc...) there had to be one very unsatisfying explanation, or one very fucked up but satisfying explanation.
And I think they went with the latter. It makes sense. It answers all the questions in a logical, consistent manner, with no appeals to god or fate. And it was a hell of a twist. Far better than anything M. Night has done. The closest I can think of was in D.O.A. when the narrator reveals that he's dead.
I think this ending is going to grow on people. I think the audience may have just been to thrown by it, to realise how good it was. -
Still on Season 1, but I was driven to check it out by, as you say, the frequent talkbackers who rave about it, and decry Herc for ignoring the show.
I think it's like a cross between Buffy and early X-files. Monster of the week shows, with a minor arc thrown in.
The thing is, it's not exactly lighting any fires for me right now. (Though neither did Buffy season 1.)
When, in your opinion, does the show really kick off and come into its own? To the point where a viewer is hooked? Because I don't think I'm there yet. -
Keep at it and you'll be rewarded. Season 2 kicks season ones ass. then season 3 kicks season 2's ass. And so on and so forth. Get the gist?
Great fucking show! -
V'Shael: Yes, I agree it was neatly done and well set-up. I just didn't like it.
Better than not letting them finish, however
That said, I never cared in the US (or too much in the UK) version about Why Sam was there.
What I really want was a cop show set in the 70s with those characters, especially Michael Imperioli's mustache. That mustache is a character all to itself.
Really Mike Imperioli made that show for me. And, I am not a Sopranos groupie.
So, I guess the ending left me unconnected. And the Obama reference was unnecessary and distracting. -
Well, they do eventually run out of monsters of the week. And, when they do you'll actually miss them. A "cute little nothing of an episode" kind of cleans the palette.
The Buffy/X-Files analogy is pretty good. But starting at the end of Season 1 it gets arc intensive. And now in season 4 it is all arc ... arc ... arc ... Oh, you thought this was going to be a silly filler?; No FU, arc! ... arc.
It is the only show I "wait for" during the week. (Sad state of TV that is.) I am actually unhappy it gone for 2 weeks.
It is good.
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I've been watching Supernatural from the beginning, but even though I enjoyed the first season, it wasn't something I'd ever recommend to anyone. It was a little too standard.
Tonight's episode even made fun of the episode Bugs, calling the writing bad outright. Ha! (Though I thought Route 666 may have been worse)
For me, the first episode that really made me sit up was "Devil's Trap," the first season finale. Ever since then, I feel like it's really found its identity and started kicking ass. -
Heh, and once it reached that arc-arc-arc point, you get people who gripe because they want that show about two brothers hunting a different monster each week back. And when the show takes a week off for a standalone monster hunt, then the other half of the audience complains. It has to be a little bit of hell for the writers, trying to please everyone.
I like it either way. I thought last week's managed pretty well to be both.
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Because last week's Dollhouse, with the Buffyish adventure on campus, and the groaningly unfunny stoned humor, has totally turned me off this series, and I was willing to give it a lot of chances.
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Not that anybody in power at Fox or Mutant Enemy is listening to me, but if they had, they would have had a much better, more clearly, defined series. Joss Whedon just appears to not understand the Spy themed format? Now, we're in 7 episodes, with 3 of the installments being poor to really bad, and 3 being, just okay, very good, and one great. As far as tonight's episode goes, this should have already occurred, in terms of plot, in the premiere episode, which should have been a two hour pilot...one made-up of "Man on The Street"...and tonight's episode, which I can only speak of its brief plot outline. I will judge the quality of the episode tonight, good or bad...but i think the series is as good as dead now, thanks to the inconsistent writing and plotting, from week to week, there has been spotty quality controls on this series!
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I've been ranting as much as anyone about Supernatural not getting a talkback here. My favorite parts from last nights episode addressed those complaints when they thanked the loyal underground following. They basically said screw those people that wont support this great show we are happy with the fans that appreciate what we do. That is classy.
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Come back BSG ...
Everyone see the Obama/BSG article at The Onion? Damn funny (and not partisan in any way, honest injun!) -
They just want to make dual-use pumpkins!
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Apr 03, 2009 5:28:14 AM CDT
Right.... how silly of Us, MM is in fact *smarter* than the writ
by champvinyl
fucking hell, get over yourself.
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Joss Whedon tried to cover all the important plot points in the pilot of his last series, and the Fox execs told him to do something else.
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In tonight's episode, Caroline spends her "awake" time trying to recruit the dolls to SAVE THE BUNNIES.
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It is a shit show. Let it go people.
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Apologies to Shermdawg, who I told I'd watch the show last night and live tb it. However, due to illness I was not able to do that. I am going to try to watch last night's episode on Hulu and then be around to discuss next week.
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I hope this week's gets back on schedule.
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Last week after I saw that Caroline was a pretty much a member of PETA I said let her stay a doll. I mean, Sea Kittens? Really?!?
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Supernatural is the best show on tv right now. Season 1 was a season of trying to find the right balance. From season 2 and on it gets better and better and the end of ass kicking has not yet been reached. Hang on there and you will enjoy the show more. That's guaranteed.
It's a shame that Supernatural doesn't have a talkback. It would be the busiest weekly talkback I believe.
As for people calling it a cross between Buffy & X-Files. Well, I would call it a cross between Angel & X-Files. Buffy is too pussy and Supernatural ain't none of that pussy shit.
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You're not the only one. The show they profile her as the PETA member again I might not watch.
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Haven't watched last night's episode yet, but I'm glad more people are checking it out. And Toby_FN_Wong is right, the show is like a cross between Angel and X-Files, not pussy ass Buffy.
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Without a doubt, with the exception of 24 and lost, SUPERNATURAL is the single most clever, witty, and jaw droppingly awesome show on tv right now, and has been for 4 years. Last nights episode, from the description, seems like a cute nothing of a show. Within the first act, I had screamed at the tv with delight no less then 4 times.By mid act, it had turned quite huge and epic within the mythology. By episodes end, I was beside myself I had watched, yet again, an episode of free tv that was that damn good.
Without a doubt, better written and planned then X-FILES and a huge worthy successor to things like KOLCHAK.
Utterly stunning. -
As bizarre as the 2035 mission to Mars ending is, it actually works with the earlier mystery teases like the nanobot and it's much more of a satisfying ending than the UK's "wake up from a coma, get bored with 2006, commit suicide to go back to 1973" ending.
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The M Night Shaymalan joke was one of the funniest things I've heard in a loooong time.
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if my memory serves me the animal rights activist Dusku in JSBSB was a cover, not genuine. She was playing Faith again. yeah
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The producers said this was the plan since the pilot. Going with that I think the ending would have been perceived better if they had more seasons to deveolp the mythos around it. It seems kind of a jump right now.
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Its certainly not on the level of Lost or anything, but its entertainment none the less. I do agree though that nearly every episode from now on has to be epic. They can't afford to do the Lost style 2 slow episodes, 1 fast episode thing or it'll be gone forever...
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Doesn't surprise me that they had that planned all along. So many weird little things make sense in hindsight.
I hope for its viewers sake, that Lost manages to pull off an ending that wraps everything up so neatly.
Ron Moore could learn a thing or two about plotting things out in advance, for that matter. -
Or Paik Industries?
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Doesn't need to learn shit. People need to learn that some art isn't going to agree with them. It doesn't take a whole lot of fucking googling to figure out that there was a plan in place as far back as season 2. You just didn't like it.
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I enjoyed the ending but can see why people would NOT like it. Even though the clues have been there since the begining (looking back now), the need to wrap the show up early made the ending felt detached from the rest of the show. It just felt like it came out of left field, even despite the numerous clues that were left practically every week. I think the ending would have fit much much better if the show would have been given a longer run and more time to ease us into the ending.
And I'm looking forward to tonights dollhouse. While people have already started bashing the memory return, they DID set up the possibility of something like this happening in the very first ep. I still think Dollhouse is a much better show than people have given it credit for, and that people are more shitting on it because they are comparing it to Whedons best through the benefit of hindsight. -
V'Shael, wait for it, s2 gets a whole lot better and the series keeps on upping antes every season. the arcs come into full effect. be patient, you will be rewarded. I emailed herc for a supernatural talkback, but it didnt happen, maybe if a couple more of you guys ask nicely, we might be able to get one, without have to resort to hijacking another tread. Also it would be nice if AICN, recognised the growing surge fanbase for this show and would actually create a thread. we don't all watch the same stuff, but it would be nice if we could at least talk about it HErc's email address is in the contact page.
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Or does Adama saying goodbye forever to his son just because he wants to be alone in a cabin next to the grave of his dead girlfriend seem plausible?
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Bring Back Firefly! http://tinyurl.com/dgub9z
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Is Joel Hodgson there as another guy in a red jumpsuit?
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A plan? "So, we sat around in the writers room and had to decide how we were going to get Baltar to the baseship. We came up then with the idea of the final 5 cylons." "So, we were getting far enough along in the series and we all had to sit down and decide - who were going to be the final 5 cylons?" "So, we were in the writers room and had to decide then who was the final cylon? We had a lot of choices but as we looked at it then we eventually chose Ellen at that moment. She fit best." "So, what was Starbuck? we all sat in the writers room, and debated and went down alot of paths. The more we talked about it, the less I liked it. We decided then that it should be unknown. You make from it what you want". Now thats some far reaching planning!
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Dollhouse is mediocre, but at least I laughed a couple times last week. Meanwhile, Terminator is winding down with its last 2 intense-looking episodes, and I have one question: How stupid is Fox for airing the final two entries in April instead of holding them until May when they could ride the coattails of the Terminator: Salvation hype machine? Answer: Deeply stupid. I highly suspect we're going to learn that Weaver was the T-1000 seen on the Jimmy Carter submarine in recent episodes, and her disappointment with humanity is driving her to create a new machine/humane co-society at any cost... albeit one where the machines are still in charge of the humans. That's my theory at least.
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Its not Art no know that human survivors who drank algee water and fought and dies forever across time and space would walk out into the cold, harsh neolithic wilderness with no medicine, electric, medical supplies, structures, weapons or planning except "I know something about farming" (Cry). They know NOTHING about this wrodl, its seasons, its dangers, its life...Hell, on earth in 2009 we have peanut alergy; Brown Recluse bite venom, Bee Sting allergies...And they no immunity yet to Small pox or any number of issues a MEDICAL BAY would provide you with medicine to solve. And in case the cylons DO return? Oh, lets drive ALL of our spaceships into the sun and destroy them! Lets not use them as spare parts for structures, building weapons, recharging heating sources, escape shuttles in case hibernating lifeforms that thrive in the cold and are buried under the ground come up to harvest on them in the winter --- lets not even talk about, yes, adama leaving his only son (And his apparently holy ghost girlfriend) to sit by a grave of rocks and build a cabin with his bear hands.....the ending makes so little sense it actually makes blood pour from a thinking mans ears!
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I needs en editz butten plezze
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Well said, sir. (on the topic of planning and art v. logic)
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The lack of credibility of this site is growing exponentially. Talkback for a show that NOBODY watches? Oh, but it's Whedon, so it's the best thing on TV. Vomit.
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I can't believe I'm getting bored
with watching Eliza parade around in
slutty outfits... -
to deserve no talkback?
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I am downloading every episode though... I just have no desire to watch them yet.
Right now I'm pretty satisfied with my weekly stack of shows that I watch: 24, Lost, Supernatural, Terminator, and shamefully... Heroes.
Has anyone heard whether Terminator will be renewed or not? The last couple of episodes have been good. -
It's not reality tv trash, and it doesn't have involvement from anyone involved with a Whedon show is my guess... although Lost, 24, BSG, and Heroes regularly get talkbacks so I'm not sure. I have no idea how Real World and Road Rules have gotten talkbacks, but I seem to remember only one that mentioned Supernatural (and it mocked its ratings). It sucks that we have to use other talkbacks to talk about this show...
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Let me put it this way...they moved it to Fridays where it was beaten by Howie Do It. "Hasta La Vista, Baby".
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Apr 03, 2009 10:46:57 AM CDT
dollhouse Theme Song: From a Feminine Hygiene Product Commercial
by darfurontherocks
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Apr 03, 2009 10:47:31 AM CDT
Can We Appropriate this TB as the unofficial Supernatural TB?
by darfurontherocks
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...Because I can't wait for this to be cancelled.
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Might as well. I'll start. Some awesome moments from last night: "Theres even a website! Man, for FANS they sure do complain alot! Look! Theres Dean Girls and Sam Girls! Whats 'SLASH'!" Was a howler! Shocker: "Hes a PROFIT! What he is writing now will become known as the NEW new testament called "The Testament of Winchester" !!!!! And how everything they tried to avoid came true anyway - broken rear window, flower band aids on his face! The corker was the sneaky "If the Profit is in danger, the Arch-Angel will protect him" plan of beating Lilith! Honorable mention: "I'm going to go kill myself" "Dont be so melodramatic - we would just Resurrect you anyway!" WHAT A SHOW!
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"Dollhouse Gets a Wake-Up Call! Plus Sexy Shower Secrets!!" TVGuide.com: Is it safe to say that with all these community shower scenes at the Dollhouse, all of you have seen each other's bits?
Lachman: [Laughs] Yes. Yes. The episode where Victor has a "man reaction," we had to shoot the shower scenes like continuously. I had pasties on and a thong, but the pasties kept peeling off.... We have seen a lot of each other. A lot." -
That's never happened on this show before. I mean it isn't as if every single episode has had this multimillion dollar company shown as totally incompetent and incapable of doing anything right or anything.
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In retrospect, I wish they had named the Prophet "Joss" just for another wink.
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a) The main characters are not chicks.
b) It has nothing to do with reality tv.
c) There is no one from the Whedonverse in it.
d) There is no sissy stuff in it.
e) There is no pussy music in it. -
It's beating stupid "Howie Do It" now, thankfully, due to recent small increase in ratings. I do hear its odds of returning aren't good, however, whereas Dollhouse's odds of returning are apparently better... even though the two shows are getting identical ratings now. How sad.
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The way that Supernatural moves from tension to comedy is effortless. Bravo. I am wondering if Lillith has her own prophet? How does she know that she was not gonna survive this war?
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I'm going to watch more Supernatural. I think I'll try Fringe and Dollhouse while I'm at it.
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We need a TB for that also..... The dynamic between the various characters is very good.
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A lot of people are having trouble with that aspect of the Dollhouse. I am coming to terms with it however since, while we can assume that Dollhouses are succesful (20 of them!), we were NEVER told that it was a flawless system. They snakeoiled customers into believing it's a perfect alternative but I think with the Alpha incident, the continuous breakdowns and the fact that they even have a place named "The Attic" is pretty good evidence that whomever is running things (Rossum?)knows that what they are doing is flawed. In a business sense.
Morally kinda fucked up as well, but that's a different argument, I think. -
that this is Whedon's allegory on how Studios treat the talent it hires, right?
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Amy Acker, Amber Benson, Mercedes McNab, and I'm sure I'm missing a few others. Maybe Herc, just doesn't watch it. And he can be forgiven for that in the first 2 seasons or so. But the last season or 2 has rocked. Best thing on tv? Not really. But definitely up there.
I posted elsewhere that I had a real problem with the Life on Mars ending. Maybe if there had been more time, and we could have seen some hints of his actual life, but as it was, it completely negated everything that went on in 1973 AND 2008. We had no ground for the character. We don't know and aren't given a reason to care about the guy who wakes up in 2035. We have some vague sense that he has father issues and has a thing for his female co-worker. But that's it. I was pretty disappointed. Anyway, if Dollhouse gets renewed for a 2nd season, I'm going to come on here and laugh in all your faces. -
I *do*. I've said from the beginning how this show is a metacommentary on acting, writing, and the studio system. That's one of the things I find fascinating about the show, and Joss would only have been able to write it at this point in his career when he's grown a bit cynical about the system.
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Too many good lines from last night. And the others are right, the only reason Dollhouse has a talkback is whedon worship. If anyone elses name was attatched to this show it would go to its inevitable death completely unnoticed. This is the reason why this talkback gets hijacked every week by Supernatural, TSCC, BSG, and Life on Mars fans every week.
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Gaeta played a priest this week. Dualla played a girlfriend last season (although we've since found out she cheated on poor Ben while he was in jail for 10 days), and Tyrol was a messenger demon last year as well. Look for Hot Dog any day now.
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Edlund, who was a producer and writer for Firefly and Angel (including that puppet episode, Smile Time) is now a producer and writer for Supernatural. He's the guy who created The Tick, and has also written for Venture Brothers.
I kind of love the man. -
That's supposed to say 'You know what ...'
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Massive Dynamic? They're connecting Fringe and this? WTF?!?!
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Herc was just making an observation that a bunch of shows have corporations as the "big bad" (although again: Veridien attack 'bunnies' will only 'cuddle' everyone in a 2 mile radius, so how bad can they be?)
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why couldn't Joss Whedon have made her someone interesting, like say, FAITH for instance!
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but someone interesting like Faith. I hate these boring sincere do-gooders with their earnest expressions. Dushku doesn't know how to play that type of character and she's so fucking boring when she does. Some actresses can give a do-gooder some edge and make them interesting. Sadly, Dushku can just plays it the way it's written.
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i see cancellation a-coming.
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I can't wait for the NEXT time something goes wrong with their programming! WOW! I'm on the edge of my seat..
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more like SNOREhouse! amirite guys? huh? yeah? nobody?.......cough
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"Food Court Sorkin." OK, maybe not, but bear in mind Sorkin makes me wish I was deaf and had a TV with no closed captioning.
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Apr 03, 2009 1:53:03 PM CDT
Fran Kranz is Topher, Reed Diamond is Dominic - you moron!
by juansanchez
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Apr 03, 2009 1:53:38 PM CDT
Seriously though - I thought you were announcing cancelation
by juansanchez
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This show just isn't cutting the cheese for me. Its not as smart or as cool as it thinks.
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First season was two prep boys driving around, and walking around in dark rooms. Next.
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The climax of yesterday's Supernatural episode really conveyed the utter waste that was gonna happen if Lillith attack the prophet.
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All five of you who watch that show are in Dollhouses talkback every week.
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The folks that used to watch Battlestar Galactica have to talk about something...
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So we don't bug the four people who like Dollhouse.
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It's got a major buffyverse alum and tons of geek chic, so obviously it should get its own TB here.
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But frankly I don't think it needs a talkback. Outside of 'Will B&B do it?' or 'Will Angie and Hodgins get back together?' there's really not much to discuss. In other words, the discussion points are all chick-oriented. PASS.
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Really - how do you choose what shows to give talkbacks to? Eleventh Hour is a better show and watched by more people than Dollhouse will ever be.
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Because I've never been in a Dollhouse talkback and mentioned the show until now. Granted, I have screamed about wanting one in Heroes talkbacks of the past though...
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OSTS = Other Shows That Suck...
There are talkbacks for Bones,Dollhouse, heck...even Pirate Master. -
Does Thirteen take a dirt nap in Monday's episode? Discuss.
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Anyone know if Fox announced for sure whether or not Terminator: SCC will be coming back next season?
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Was a Sesame Street book where Grover was afraid that if you kept turning the pages the monster would get him. So (spoiler alert) at the end, it turned out that Grover was the monster at the end of the book. I haven't seen the episode itself yet but awesome shout out.
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Kutner. I doubt it's Taub because of where his character is right now (sure, he's despondent but still wants the job, and apparently he attempted suicide earlier in life ... and it would seem a reversal from his earlier suicide-directed anger). 13 was more likely earlier in the season, but again, it would seem a reversal (maybe if she fucked something up and Foreman dumped her? seems like it'd turn too many viewers against Foreman). Foreman can't die because the show ends if he does (since the show is actually Gant in Purgatory). Chase and Cameron apparently are having an engagement party later in the season, so they're out. House and Cuddy are apparently doing it later in the season, so they're out as well. Wilson's a possibility, but with the intro of his brother and the fact he is dating seems out of place. Although word that Amber is returning as an In-Head to House later in the season could be an argument for ... but I don't see why Wilson would do it.
That leaves Kutner. And I have no cognizant reason why it would be him, but I can't find any arguments against either. "Eliminate the impossible, and whatever is left, however improbable, is the truth" -
wow....i remember that one, damn i'm old. lol
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You're not old. I'm only 26 and definitely remember that Sesame Street book too.
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I would love to see a House talkback and talkbacks for Big Bang Theory and Its always sunny... but maybe its too hard or confusing for AICN to handle everyone's pet show. However, the reason I raid this talkback with Supernatural threads is because 1)its as good or better than anything Whedon has ever done. 2)the Dollhouse talkback comes up the morning after Supernatural. 3)there are at least a dozen shows that are more worthy of a weekly talkback. But once again because whedon did something cool 10 years ago and was able to convince some people that he was "one of us" (total bullshit) everything the man does gets a talkback on AICN (whether it deserves it or not). My favorite one was the "oh my god Angel got cancelled a few years ago" talkback.
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I really wish I hadn't heard of it beforehand. Apparently, it comes out of nowhere, but because of my stupid internet usage I'm already prepared for it, and won't be shocked whoever it turns out to be. And it would have been nice to be shocked.
Why can't there be more talkbacks, anyway? -
FFS.
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This episode surprised me. Not only because it so hilariously skewered the fans (some of whom need a skewering now and again), but it also just sort of exploded halfway through into this mytharc-heavy, mindfucky, genuinely entertaining and threatening meta-supernova.
For a show that's making us think about the conceptual "righteous man," free will and fate, and mythological archetypes...it's fairly wacky. We got LARPing, shoutouts to TWoP, swipes at the network, Wincest, slash, apologies for bad episodes, snarky angels, fangirls with tattoos on their asses. I really have a sense of WOW about this season and what they've been able to achieve. -
the best shows on TV. "I am the prophet Chuck!" You've got to love Sam and Dean. They actually seem like they are brothers in real life. The little jokes in between the action and horror are a nice counter-balance. Why it doesn't have a talkback is beyond me.
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I amuse myself to ponder that you guys think you are hi-jacking or raiding a Dollhouse TB when the majority of people who watch Dollhouse, also watch T:SCC and Supernatural. So far, NO ONE has made a stink or whined about such off topic discussion in the talkbacks to date, yet you guys continually think you are doing something rebellious and protesty. Makes me miss Corspie's rants actually...
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Apparently you just can't stand Kings huh Herc? Or is it that you think Joss Whedon is so great even though this show is only getting decent after eight fucking episodes? So fucking biased.
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although I don't know if he was supposed to be Dean or Sam.And for the House fans that don't know, Thirteen gets nekkid in Alpha Dog.
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It came up and some of us answered it. There are just some poeple that want to talk about Supernatural and this has kind of become the go to place. I think Supernatural is getting more posts this week because last nights episode addressed some of the complaints and frustrations we have about why this show doesnt get the attention whedon's stuff does (or even Heroes for gods sake). And it must be really frustrating for the people that work on Supernatural. They produce quality work every week and it goes unnoticed by the "cool" websites and the entertainment industry. So last nights episode addressed all of that and commented on the fans of the show. I dont think they made fun of the fans either just some of the wackier things in fandom like slash fiction. They were able to make an episode that talked about the past four seasons, the fans, their frustrations and were able to tie it into one of the best shows of the season. That deserves to be talked about.
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Cleaning my keyboard resulted in the previous 3 comments.
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I agree that Kings, Sunday nights on NBC, is far better than Dollhouse. However, Harry has not provided a weekly talkback for the show. Is it because there are no young, hot girls with big tits on Kings? Last week had some hot girls dancing around. Anyway, Kings is probably one of the best dramas on TV right now, and AICN is ignoring it.
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Does that get better after the first episode? Because I just couldn't hack that.
I think part of the problem was that Ian McShane crushes everyone else's performance. -
episodes. I watch both and I can tell you the first four episodes of Kings have been way better than all of Dollhouse's episodes combined.
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My apoligies. I thought that by "raid" you meant somehow you thought you were "invading", like Supernatural discussion is somehow unwelcome upon poor little Dollhouse talkbackers. Personally, I like the crossover. And last week's SN ep was hilarious. I didn't watch the first season because of how the CW promoted it like Charmed (I *hated* Charmed). But I'm all got up now and it is getting better.
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the priest (the guy from Oz) is very good. The scenes between those two are always my favorite.
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did they also mention "foxtrot" last week?
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Coaxial is all Herc's doing and he has a major hard-on for Joss Whedon. So even though Dollhouse is borderline garbage he's going to give the turd that Whedon built a talkback every week.
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i started with supernatural cus my bro said its like buffy/angel meets x-files and somehow smallville on rock & in every way more cool!he told me, cus he watched the first season before me, its cool shit with a lot of pop culture stuff and they hunt everything from ghosts over demons etc and every rock fan which i am, will love this show cus u hear a lot of tunes somany people allready forgot! nearly in every episode a new beautiful lady is in it also! the brothers dean and sam can pull of from being funny, a bully, bad ass or just jerks.
they have the believeable range for the dramatic stuff 2 and i started 2 watch it!
the first season was ok and the yellow eyed demon stuff got me hooked but medi hooked. i was really bored in the monster of the week stuff, cus i had that stuff 2 much 2 long in buffy, smallville etc.
in season 2 it started good went a little bit down, but in the end of season 2 i was really into it and mega hooked!
season 3 was a killer season!!!
season 4 and no bullshit fan talk is so far the best and in my opinion, supernatural is the only show that only gets better with every season that past by!
i watched it all, all the tv shows from 90´s til now...i was a x-files and buffy head, a lost and 24 freak but so far supernatural is the only series who tops themself with every sesaon.
about season 4 of supernatural the only series who had only 2 lame episode so far.
i dont know any other show who has that account.
u can name it lost, 24, prison break, heroes etc
they all have all in all only 6-12 good/great episodes in a season but supernatural has only 2 lame episodes in season 4 until now!
even filler episodes like the universal monster episode, beyond funny...fanboy, great stuff!
jensen ackles is pricless in this show, if u get his humor u`ll go on a pop culture ride surrounded by metal, rock and some lip sync "eye of the tiger" stuff u havent seen before.
really at first i didnt liked jensen, but after season one...it was clear he is the show, he is awesome...i want him for GREEN LANTERN for THE EXPANDABLES for BATMAN 3 name it, i want him in it!:)
if the brothers do a "wanted dead or alive" singing in the car u want 2 sing along.
this show is funny and dramatic there is all in it and the ladies, damn, some u love, some u hate, but most of them are babes...everything is acted well and
our watchmen fave the comedian is in it for 2 seasons, what more can u want?!
watch 2 season if u are not hooked, then maybe u will never?!
u can take away lost and i love lost, u can take away 24 and i love 24 but dont take away supernatural...this show has it all, it really roxx! -
its liquefied dullness in a bottle of wine. worst kind of sci fi.
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because no one cares that people discuss other genre shows in DH TB's, what's gonna happen when Dollhouse is over after episode 13 and then you REALLY have no where to discuss it where other people don't give a fuck? I mean, there was like 4 posts in the Lost TB about the series finale of LoM and the bitching was starting.
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mine feel on the floor upside down and i cant be bothered to touch it. something happened to ur mother.
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because it's a very weak show, nobody cares about it, so it's natural that people would come in and go "did you watch House the other day?". But Supernatural? wtf? are we all 15 year old girls now? really, go away.
Did you watch House the other day? -
No apoligies neccessary and I'm not saying Dollhouse is a bad show or Whedon sucks. I've had a love hate relationship with several of his shows. 90% of his stuff is great but his personal issues he puts in the other 10% sometimes ruins it for me. The bigger question is (leaving whedon and supernatural out of it) why does this show get a talkback every week? What is Dollhouse doing that elevates it to weekly talkbacks like BSG had?
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Is getting better. I hope it will be renewed. It has potential.
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Don't know what Herc is thinking. Probably have to ask him. Personally, I am enjoying Dollhouse and the Friday talkback. Maybe he is too? *shrug*
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No other reason. Even though I watch this show it's pretty piss poor and doesn't merit a talkback. Hercules kneels at the altar of Whedon and that's pretty much obvious.
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that I do not have but want.
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even if u hate it u must admit dollhouse doesnt hold a candle to great sci fi
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lifes too short and my tv hates dollhouse
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we can talk about how they examine the bones and the science behind it :)
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It was very reminisent of the MASH ep where the guy had the throat wound and it was his perpective. MASH broke some boundries, yo. (Shout out to MosDef). And I think Taub is going to off himself.
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You're right; Dollhouse so far doesn't hold a candle to great sci fi. Why did you mention Stargate, though, if you wanted to talk about great sci fi? Stargate doesn't hold a candle to Babylon 5, Farscape, or even MST3K.
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after they made Zach the apprentice and tried to explain it by "logic". And then they all still loved him. And then he didn't actually kill anyone but desecraded a corpse.
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The guy puts ads for Buffy and Angel in his talk backs all the time. It's kind of sad really.
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So sad Dickholder.
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but I still don't know what he's thinking :)
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He admitted that they made it up as they went along. Instead of googling how about you listen to the podcasts so you don't sound like a fucking moron. The Final Five, decided sometime before season 3 except for Ellen which they didn't figure out until before Season 4. That's way after Season 2 and the last season sucked much dick loser.
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with the BSG ending, if they the last shot was then seeing "earth" for the first time. I got very emotional at that part. The stuff afteward felt epilogue like a Harry Potter "19 years later" tack on to disgruntle fan fics.
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Stupid but pretty fingernails. Crown Royal doesn't help either...
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This break is shitty. I wanna see if this piece of crap show still has time to redeem itself.
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I believe, with a 2-hour opening. Then it will on before Dollhouse on Fridays, replacing T:SCC.
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I'm watching Triangle. So good. "He's not a ball of sunshine."
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any other character, but since it was Zack I was glad to see him gone. He went from looking like a kid just out of high school in a lab coat to, when he thought he should look more mature, a 12 year-old kid in daddy's suit.
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That was a fairly bad ass intro segment for tonight's TTSCC!
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Reese!
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If it ended with Zach just twisting logic enough to be the apprentice I think I would have been more at ease with it. But then he escaped and they understood and THEN we found out he didn't actually kill anyone. It just made me question why they didn't have someone else be the apprentice in the first place. I guess the emotional tugging of heart strings that they were going for didn't work for me. But they wrote themselves into a corner with it being an inside job.
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ain't all reset buttony
Didn't see that coming -
...will not be as good as TTSCC. Holy Shit!
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Dollhouse TB's are getting a bit "TwitchY", aren't they? But for TV, not movies. I wish Marv was here..
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Please?
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abrupt
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Free for all Fridays! If you want to talk about Party Down, you just go ahead, man.
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Geez, blurting it out like that..
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over the "trouser" song.
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Delusions of granduer...
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Garret Dillahunt should play Dar
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that Ballard is finally going to grab a clue that he is being spied on.
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Being know-it-all to the girl who has scars on her face from your fuck-upery.
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Tonight's episode was badass. Reese got plugged! No wonder he auditioned for a new show haha. I can't wait to see the next episode. I think Mrs. Weaver is gonna be laying down some serious T-1000 beats soon.
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Joss will *never* live it down :)
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He is so dead.
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Check the vent. It's *always* in the vent.
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Co-ed showers!
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Joss Whedon's crap gets a talkback at every opportunity (I swear, if the guy farts, there's a talkback about it) but there's no Terminator: TSCC talkback. Ever.
We just had a big episode where one main character was killed, one was arrested, and the story was pushed forward in a big way... Yet here we are, instead getting a talkback about a show that is FAILING in the ratings and with critics (Whedon fans included). Jeez! Only the most die-hard Whedonite can defend Dollhouse at this point. -
Nah....Alex Skarsgard is THOR!!
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I think you should bitch more instead of discussing the episode. It helps, truly.
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The Dollhouse sucks. And T:SCC needs a freakin' talkback already.
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It's like the disk with Angel's soul-restore on it! Seeing it again before the end of the series, I wager.
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So actually talk about it instead of bitching. Who's stopping you??
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We can't see more of this?
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If AICN had as much coverage about TTSCC as it does Whedon's most recent venture, we may have had the *SPOILER* totally fscking unexpected death of Derek Reese *END SPOILER* spoiled for us! HOLY SHIT, he didn't even go out in a blaze of glory. He went down like a no-name red-shirt rent-a-cop! That was one of the most shocking deaths of a show's main characters that I've seen.
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"What do you think your gonna do?" Oh Joss, I lurve your activism.
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Fucking takes her legs out but then covers her bleeding face with a towel. That's conflicted, man.
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You heard it here first....
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Has anyone seen the outtakes? Hilarious stuff!
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and then they start getting worried? It's been flickering all episode...why was that outage more important than the others?
And Mellie is creepying me out. It's like she is going to kidnap a child or something. -
$10 says he's never been to a rave in his life.
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Do it! C'mon, good for the goose and all that. It will learn him. Or make him worse.
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Those are the things that shape you. Wipe those and you are not who you are supposed to be.
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Was that to be taken literally? Cuz, like, umm,... there's not a lot of dollhouse talking going on here.
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A song montage. It's not Whedon without a song montage.
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Or maybe just not a bit. Sad now.
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Good thing Ballard is all pervy for Echo so he recognizes her voice already :) HA!
Seriously, good pacing tonight. Flew by and changed up my perceptions of Acker and some of the dolls. Topher is still Topher.
*glow stick* tuch. -
Yup, Hysterical. When Dean is singing EYE OF THE TIGER and doing a music video in his car its WAYYYYYYY too cool. Thats some funny shit! So, yeah, I guess we will all meet back here next FRIDAY morning for our House\T:TSCC\Supernatural Talkback\Galactica ended like shit evidence gathering party.
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but he's going to wait and see what everyone else thought before he gives his opinion.
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Finally an episode where the Dollhouse people aren't totally incompetent! They really should do more episodes where you think things are falling apart but it is all really part of the plan. Of course it could be that everything we've seen so far is part of the big plan.
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you people are pathetic, bitching about talkbacks for Whedon shows, when he has done more for the scifi/fantasy genre on television than any of the people behind the other shows you mention. If you don't like it, get your own website! Rock on, Dollhouse!
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This is a multi-kajillion dollar facility, with state-of-the-art surveillance equipment, apparently fully under the radar of any law enforcement agency, with the capacity to study, perfect, produce and implement the technology to turn human beings into Tabula Rasa and then into programmed operatives, with over 20 'Dollhouses' all over the world, operating in secret, creating all kinds of mayhem and yet able to throw enough money at most any mess to clean it up....
AND THEY DON'T HAVE A FUCKING BACK-UP GENERATOR?!?!?!? -
Are you on the Dollhouse's side and not the Dolls themselves? I ask this with no snarkiness intended. Is it because the Dolls themselves are less fleshed out storywise than the corporation itself at this point?
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got even creepier this week
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boss lady tells Echo that everyone there signed on freely because they couldn't deal with their real lives.
Yet Sierra was abducted into sexual slavery and is basically kept in a state of perpetual serial rape -
Wasn't it all just a "reboot" scenario to get the Dolls from glitching? Acker said they had to "finish things" in their other lives so it didn't keep interferring with the wipes. I thought the power outtages were just part of the scenario to let the glitched Dolls "escape" to do what they felt compelled to do, then they were triggered to return when that need was finished.
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I know. The other Dolls might have been there of their own free will but Sierra was *sold*. Shady fucking snakes, the lot of them.
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I think Joss Whedon should talk to George Lucas and put together a Boba The Fett television series. I think it would be a match made in Heaven. Plus, who wouldn't want to see that badass hunt across the galaxy.
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'cause there is no coming back from that."
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Was I the only one who, after Derek's death, thought, "Okay, guess this is all going to be a dream. Okay, time to wake up. Wake up. Wake up? Hmmm." I'm guessing 90201 guy *really* wanted to be free of this show now that he had established he actually can act.
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You can honestly see how since she got her face ripped off last time, how she wouldn't want to see the Dolls glitching anymore.
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... not as lame as last week, not as good as two weeks ago. Let's just get to Alpha already and put this thing to bed.
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I was ready to give this show up but a few good episodes have stalled that. Still it's criminal that this show gets a talkback and Supernatural doesn't. It's a good show and could use some press.
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It's not too late, man...We take all.
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So the underground IT guy Ballard goes to is Alpha, right? That would be the consensus?
Bit of a coincidence, eh? -
Are you talking about the Fox's "April Fool" promo or something else?
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Apr 03, 2009 10:23:21 PM CDT
And yeah, I wasn't expecting much from last night's episode.
by shermdawg
But man, did it take a swerve! I will say this though, Cas was very close to getting out of character there for a second. If they screw him up like they did Ruby I'm not gonna be a happy camper. Rubes used to be a strong, confident character, and when they recasted her, they turned her into a annoying whiny coward. THAT and the lack of Bobby have hurt this season greatly......but it STILL remains one of the best shows on tv at the moment. Keep the support and word of mouth going. Maybe, just MAYBE, Herc will give us a weekly talkback for the final season. And even if it has to share the spotlight with Smallville which is also going into it's expected final season, I'm alright with that. We'll take what we can get, and if we can't get it, well....looks like we'll take it.
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Fuck you herc for no terminator tb! They just killed Douche BAG.
You are the Nazi of talkbacking Herc, you build your perfect Whedon-Arian tb society while Terminator suffers.
Hitler Herc. -
Hasn't been gased yet
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Douche Bag pissed of a lot of people, first and foremost John Henry, or as we know it Megan Foxes Labia
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Ruby does seem less competent doesn't she? Then again I think we're going to see a turn for the worse in Ruby. That smile on her face when Sam was drinking her blood hinted at something...sinister like maybe she's actually an agent for Yellow Eyes or something. See this is exactly the kind of speculation and discussion that would be nice in our very own Supernatural talkback.
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Kindly go fuck yourself.
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You guys see that right? How it looks when you just bitch and you don't even TALK about the show you really want to talk about? And no one is stopping you?
It's like you're crazy people. -
Green has a new show called D.O.U.C.H.E.B.A.G., or DELTA OPERATIONS UTILIZING CAMPY HOMO ENTERTAINMENT Featuring BRIAN AUSTIN GREEN.
Megan Fox's Labia as Commander Air Wolf
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Shit talking tb'ers, get off my lawn
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"Get off my lawn" all Clint Eastwood growly.
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Apr 03, 2009 10:51:43 PM CDT
FookU, when did Hercules take over Harry's web site?
by leafar the lost
FookU wrote, "Leafar, you can't blame Harry it's Herc's fault. Coaxial is all Herc's doing and he has a major hard-on for Joss Whedon..." So, Harry can't tell Hercules what to put on his own fucking web site? Has Harry's 22 year old wife taken away his balls? That shouldn't happen for at least 10 years. Last week we saw an incoherent review of Marley & Me from Harry, who was spaced out on back meds. If he can put that on his web site, then he should be able to put on a "Kings" talkback. "This site is © 1996-2009 Harry Knowles." Harry is the H.G.I.C. Until his 22 year old wife gives him a heart attack from too much humping in bed and/or kitchen floor, Harry owns AICN, it is his decision, and alot of people wants a KINGS talkback, because Ian McShane is kicking ass every week on that show. He demands your respect!
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Man, I mean Alan Tudyk.
Also, I regret that I could not join you in your one-person liveblog. You look a tad lonelier way on up the ol' talkback. -
Seriously, they are going to show a glimpse of him before the Prison Break...er...break and I'm going to go out of my head for a week. Alpha-tease.
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Terminator is pretty good. I enjoy the show for what it is: the "Generic Cola" of soapy actioneers in primetime.
Plus a Douche B A G execution, hahaha comedy gold!
Keep cupping the whedonnuts, Herc, LOL. If your gonna like a crap show be a man and make it Sarah Connor -
? No one has cool theories for Terminator, wheres all the BSG guys? What do they obsess on now?
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sorry super post there stupid AICN servers making me click more than once
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Those of us who know that supernatural kicks godly and ungodly kinds of ass are vocal about it for a reason... i was thinking, 'alright, nice concept for a show' and then SPOILER---------------------------when the author was a PROPHET OF GOD! fuck that was awesome... then, as if that twist wasn't awesome enough, the prophet is protected by insanely powerful arch angels! man... and to those of you who won't give it a chance because of the plot description, the ambercrombie and fitch looking stars (who are fantastic actors) and the fact that its on CW need to open your mind like alot of talkbackers did for veronica mars... and on another note--SPOILER ABOUT TERMINATOR---------------------They killed reese, just like that, in a millisecond... that was a BALLSY way to kill off someone who's been on the show for two years... his character had grown on me, but man if heroes knew how to kill off people like that it would have at least one tiny shred of coolness in it.
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That one has been around for a bit - although sites have not been reporting it wide spread to keep the surprise a surprise. But I was talking about the clip that Fox aired on national TV on April 1st. I mean, it could have been pretence or a "dream" or some such but it was a fuck up tease they NEVER should have given away.
PS: I don't mind being by myself because then I always know I'm hanging with someone cool *fart noise* -
I blame long nails and booze. And Herc, of course. Always blame Herc.
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I could post my thoughts about Supernatural, Sarah Connor, House, Gossip Girl, 90210, Smallville or my other favorite shows on TWOP or appropriate threads in AICN's Zone, or any of the thousands of sites dedicated exclusively to Supernatural, Sarah Connor, House, Gossip Girl, 90210, Smallville or my other favorite shows.
But instead I'm going to post my thoughts on these shows in a random Dollhouse thread where most of my fellow fans won't be able to find it.
A genius, I tell you!
While Herc's column is admittedly hugely popular and entertaining, I think we need to learn that it's not the Internet's only column covering TV.
As for Dollhouse, I'll admit I'm still mostly underwhelmed - but would hate for Herc to discontinue these talkbacks before the season-one finale, especially since the final three episodes are written by Firefly veterans Tim Minear, Jane Espenson and Joss Whedon. -
no,its not pathetic that we have to choose this talkback by default to talk about what we really are enjoying. Its a perfect talkback for TSCC and Supernatural, because barely anyone here stands up and gives a comprehensive explination as to why they love it so much...and media messiah doesn't c ount. Its quite clear thaty waaaaay more people are loving supernatural and enjoying tscc than the dollhouse fans... go ahead, talk down to the 5 or 6 (apparantly) of us who love supernatural... i don't even need to go through this tb again to see if dollhouse has more fans than supernatural--its no contest. even more people are liking tscc and defending that instead of this. The only pathetic thing about this talkback is that a shitty show that so few like, gets weekly talkbacks because of its showrunner... yeah, buffy angel and firefly were incredible, but i have the 'what have you done for me lately' attitude... its like saying that the packers should have kept brett favre, and there are fans who will never forgive the packers and their whole argument is that 'the packers let a hall of famer go'... well brett favre was not the hall of famer he was in the nineties when he went to two superbowls. He 's one of the greatest quarterbacks to have ever played the game, but he just couldn't play a full season anymore, and tanked at the end, which is why the packers didn't want him back. So that's my analogy about dollhouse. It is NOT pathetic talking about supernatural and tscc because, clearly, more people are enjoying them than dollhouse.
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Apr 03, 2009 11:44:17 PM CDT
Why did they cast an ugly fat chick as the Fed's neighbor?
by juansanchez
Seriously - the rest of the show is all pretty people - what's up with uggo?
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Actually, if you look at the ratings, you'll discover more people actually enjoy Dollhouse than SCC or Supernatural.
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In case there are any BSG fans out there that don't know, Bear McCreary does the music for "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles". He was also the composer for the music in "Battlestar Galactica".
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She's no fatter than the redhead on Mad Men.
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the zone sucks... there's just something about the aintitcool talkbacks that makes me want to do my tv geek talking here... it has a certain quality. and a show about boba fett??? sorry, i'm more of a star wars guy. and for those of you who obsess and lament over the fact that moore and bsg didn't have a plan, well check supernatural out, because it has a five year plan and it is quite clear that that is the case, because it is obvious to those watching that it knows where it is going and is building to the ending quicker and quicker and with the most awesome twists and the mythology of the show is second to none. I'm still holding out hope that smallville (now that the incredibly terrible lana arc is over) will finish strong and will have an even better next season and lead into 'metropolis' and just go all out with the elseworlds kind of superman tale it could easily be... i mean, who wouldn't watch that????
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i can always rely on getting a good laugh from media messiah, as he continues to think he can write a better dollhouse, or thinks that they should have used his ideas (nevermind the fact that they had already filmed a ton of episodes and had the season practically written by the time MM was able to give his suggestions to the writers on how to make it better.... i was suprised to learn he was gay (but bailed from the talkback when it was revealed) because MM seems to be in love with dushku because of that one article he read... nothing against gay people.
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wrote for Angel and Firefly. And TSCC's Summer Glau was the star of Firefly. So I guess Herc never bothers with Supernatural or TSCC talkbacks because those shows suck.
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They must pack her into her dresses on the show, because I saw her on TV in her normal, modern clothing, and she looked really fat. I don't mean just curvy, like Beyonce, I mean FAT. BTW, I think that girl who is hot for the federal agent is not as fat as the redhead on Mad Men. She is not fat, just curvy in a good way, and she has nice, big tits.
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Just doesn't fit on the show. Who in the world would pay insane money to get a blowjob from here?
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That sarah cornner chronicle, which is just before Dollhouse here, was really good! heart breaking that there is only one episode left.
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Imagine if Fox had ran episodes 6, 7, 2 and 4 in that order, and redacted all the other episodes that we have seen so far, people would be praising this show right now.
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Women on television are not up to the exacting standards of prepubescents! Why is the world so cruel?
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And I say that as a long-time fan of the Whedon (saw Buffy in theaters when it came out). Dollhouse is extremely uninteresting.TTSCC, on the other hand, is a decent as shit. It's no Angel or Twin Peaks, but it's certainly better than Dollhouse.(Pains me like a motherfucker to say that 'cause I'd watch Dushku watching grass grow - which is actually kinda like watching Dollhouse - which is probably why I'm still watching it.)Did I mention Dollhouse sucks?
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The last 4 episodes or so have been brilliant. Is it confirmed canceled? God I hope not.I was hoping it would get a boost in interest from the new Movie. I can't believe FOX didn't throw some more weight into this show... a cameo from Robert Patrick maybe would have been cool, and how about some better advertising. I know those are all minor little things, but another thing I wish they could have done is spring more money to let them use some of the atmospheric music from T2. They allude to it alot, but they never actually play any of it, and have played the main theme only a few times I think. The writing is so good on this show, and I actually ended up liking 90210 boy even, whch I originally thought might be a shark jumping moment. All the characters in this show, even minor ones have ended up great. I love that we now have extremely gray area relationships going on on all sides... awesome stuff.
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Herc does all of the TV talkbacks so I'd guess he is the one who decides it unless Harry were to overrule him. Get what I'm saying?
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Jesus... learn to space out your spoiler warning a little better. I watched the show already so no big deal for me, but come on... especially because you're right ... that WAS a very cool thing to do to that character. I love how it didn't get any fanfare. The ending of tonight's episode was haunting and creepy. At first I thought the casting of the Garbage girl for the T-1000 was bad, but I was so so wrong. She is sooo cold and creepy, and yet has those great moments where you think she might actually be trying to help the human race, or might be learning compassion. Or maybe not...
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Being a healthy size makes you "ugly" and "fat" in TV land. Really pathetic. She's beautiful. I suppose you like the emaciated starving-orphan 14-year-old-boy no-curves chick that plays Sierra?
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wixmm, yes it IS pathetic. As has been said, there are many other forums on other sites to talk about those shows. It's like losers interrupting a conversation because they want to talk about something ELSE. It's fucking rude. This site does NOT 'owe' you a talkback on whatever show you want. Especially when there's fucktards who post spoilers for these other shows without any warning for episodes that have just aired. Now I am a Supernatural fan, even when their stories are often ridiculous and badly researched. It's the characters that bring me back. And Terminator is an okay show, but mostly boring and it takes me a while to get it on my DVR. Every now and then there's a good moment, which makes me stick to it. But I'm posting on Dollhouse because this IS a Dollhouse talkback, whether you like it or not.
I thought tonight's episode was brilliant. Especially the bit where everyone got their 'closure loop.' I've never heard of the writer, but she penned a stellar episode. And more Amy Acker is always a good thing. And November remains my favorite doll, even more so after tonight. -
and it did kick ass
but was it too late to save the show? -
you WISH you could get a woman as 'ugly' and 'fat' as Miracle Laurie. She's the most natural non-anorexic, non-plastic surgery woman on that show. And she's gorgeous. I would fall for her in about 2 seconds.
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Apr 04, 2009 1:07:34 AM CDT
I swear every chick on TV has crazy fans that think they're perf
by juansanchez
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Apr 04, 2009 1:08:32 AM CDT
And no - I find the skinny Asian chick even more off-putting
by juansanchez
But she fits the concept of the show.
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As a Supernatural fan, I comment here at AICN because:
1) Other people started it!
2) I'm too lazy to click the "next" button after reading only 10 comments.
3) There's more people here than at other sites.
4) ...Unless it's a website crammed with fangirls whining that Sam and Dean don't hug enough.
5) 'Cause I love you guys! Come here, gimme a hug.
6) It's the easiest place to say whatever stupid thing you want to say.
Thank You. -
Big Reset Button at the end of the episode. This whole hour of dollhouse was a waste of everyone's time, and kinda overall boring for me. Nothing happened, really no thrill in the escape, what caroline did made no sense, etc.
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Sorry, MurderMostFowl, I guess that my exuberance got the best of me! I was shocked, because I really liked the character. I really hope this show gets a third season (there have been recent posts indicating that the show's been canceled), and that they're not just killing everyone off to reset the mythos to Sarah+John and ending the show.
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they brought it up on the last ep of Supernatural.
I'm safe from slash fic here
brrrr -
They promised "The episode you have been waiting for" and they delivered nothing. Imagine where the series could have gone if what we just watched was not manufactured by the Dollhouse. Instead, the show wasted an entire hour to go nowhere. Sorry Joss, I'm out. I just can't even comprehend how the same network canceled Firefly so quickly, yet Dollhouse is still on the air. Looks like I won't have to make room for Dollhouse on my DVD rack.
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Anybody who doesn't like her must be called Massengill--because you are a douche.
But, hey. You don't like her? That's fine...more fandom for me! -
You ever think for a second the reason why we want a Supernatural talkback here is not only to help give the show a little exposure, but the fact that this side of AICN is a community and actually wanna discuss this show, as well as others as a community? Talkbacks are given regularly for any geek-related flicks regardless if it's attached to a review/news or not. Why can't this be the same for shows? Here on the actual site and not having Herc pop in once in awhile and tell us to go to The Zone (which is a fine place btw, but not my home). If Herc doesn't want to spotlight anything other than the shows with writers he either knows or is partial to, then for god sakes start a generic "What's on TV tonight" talkback and let us have at it. Still, it's ridiculous that certain shows get regular talkbacks, even shows that rehash elements from recent favorites just as much as Supernatural may or may not do, while one of the best sci-fi related offerings isn't given a spot on a site that it's perfect for.
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I actally thought they cast her too hot. I pegged her as a doll two seconds after she walked out of her door due to that. Cliche #157 is the hot girl next door that you don't really react to has gotta be evil or not what she seems. Last seen in the first episode of Heroes when the Elf looking chick that could talk guys into doing anything walked in Mohinder's hallway.
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Of all the talented Asian-American actresses we get Sierra in the Dollhouse. She must be a casting couch talent or very good with her mouth. Man, is she ugly.
As for Supernatural. AICN is for cool news, but it amazes me that the coolest show on tv Supernatural doesn't get the cool approval from the editors here.
No matter how much I like Dushku or Whedon's Angel & Firefly, Dollhouse is a piece of shit. I will keep watching though, but Supernatural will be talked about and I am glad I am not the only one talking about it. -
I do have long nails, and was on the booze, creepy. And like totally dead on. Was spitting a nail I chewed off into a empty beer can as you wrote that. :p>
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How was tonight's ep of craphouse Whedonites??? Following BAG's dissapearing brain trick is tough, what an act to follow.
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Has potential. John Henry is the shit, he plays with legos but he 'll still whoop your ass. And when he is in that Conan get up THAT SHIT IS LOL.
Liquid dipshit Tqueef-1001 Manson edition is getting stupid and I am tired of her character acting not like a robot but good robot drama is good robot drama (see ALL MY CIRCUITS for further evidence)... -
He would drink up and show these pussy ass queerbots how a real robot gets down, then he would rob them and blow the money on hookers and booze.
Bender then bends some bad guys in cool CGI and rounds up some floozies. The bullshit fucking made up metal that Cameron is made up of apparently doesn't stand up to bending, and Cameron is defeated.
Damn this is good writing -
Whiny drama involving robots.
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November is really, really, attractive. So is the red-head from mad men, for that matter.
Tonight's episode was good, but not great. A decent stand-alone episode. -
You guys are STILL arguing about a headline - even though we have been talking about every show on fucking Television in this TB - does the fucking headline mean more than anything? I just don't. Get. It.
I am so glad I am not in your position. Herc posts a talkback for every show I like. It must suck to be you.
(As you can tell, I have no sympathy for people who don't take advantage of the opportunities that they have and reduce themselves to whiny blah, blah blah, bitchcakes.)
PS: Thanks for raising the hit count, weepy fucks.
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You are by far, the funniest fucking fuck that I never actually fucked on talkback.
Drama robots *snirk* -
Haha ya, when Derreck died I was thinking "Wow, there's no way he wouldn't just flat out died like that?". But he did. That took some balls, because at least it's realistic. Next episode looks to be epic badass...Cameron on a rampage vs. cops. Plus the teaser trailer before the season started showed John going horizontal with Cameron. Bout time!
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...I just want to say, I love you guys. Even Herc. Thank god Coaxial never gets THAT extreme.
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(and laughing my ass of, by the by) but had to say quickly...
Oh no! Diox is in the Dollhouse TB TOO?! And still talking about Stargate?!? It took all my energy to ignore him over at in the Lost TB...must...control...urge to mock... -
So the rest of my Saturday will comprise of watching Supernatural and catching up on T:TSCC.
But Dollhouse! Yeah, this episode felt a little bit like a cop out. I still enjoyed it, don't get me wrong. But the last two weeks were much better, even though this epi was still leaps and bounds above the first few. And I understand what the higher muckity-mucks were trying to do and I would have been fine with the whole 'not actually the big change we promised in the preview'...but the explanation the lovely Ms. Acker gave at the end killed it for me. "A seditive will be released into their brain when they feel closure." Whaaa? When they FEEL CLOSURE?!? Sorry, Joss, I love ya' to death, and I know you didn't actually write this episode, but that pseudo-science is stretched a weeee bit too far for me. Felt like a quick fix that made no sense.
Other thoughts: Alan Tudyk + playing Alpha = I will always watch this show. I'm one of the straightest men you might ever meet...but that man has a twinkle in his eye, he does.
And I'm sure it's been said, but...Caroline's last name's DeWitt, right? Adelle's gotta' be her mother, yes?
And, it just kinda' depresses me how douchey some people are. Personally I find Miracle Laurie (November) to be INCREDIBLY hot, while feeling the opposite for Dichen Lachman(Sierra). But you see how I did that? Without being an insulting, disgusting asshat? It's just a talkback, I know. Just gets my goat how stupid and insensitive people can be about another human being.
Bah. Enough rambling. Supernatural 1x01 it is! Wish me luck. -
...anyone watch How I Met Your Mother this week? Seems I AM getting old, as I woke this morning from last night's drinking and felt like Ted with that bucket. No Murtaugh List for me, thank you.
And yes, ridicule as you will. But I think it's a damn funny sitcom. -
But I do understand the "cop out" argument. P.S. I HATE when Eliza is Caroline. Caroline is SO annoying.
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I too think your a funny fuck.
I feel sorry for YOU that Herc makes TB's for your favorite shows.
That's like shit quality right there bro. Herc makes TB for MOSTLY shows I don not like, hahah. With the exceptions of South Park, and the now defunct and cancelled BSG (yes it was cancelled). -
If you are in China and sample the local menu (comprised of an almalgamation of small creatures), are you eating this said cake? Whedonwrestling, if there was female dog in my chinese rice cake is it a bitchcake?
~thnx -
Then I do enjoy 'bitchcake' and it is irrelevant to my Whedon campaign (my quest to destroy his balls)
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Bitchcakes are served free! And they are a plentiful handful. Like Whedon's balls. Good luck on your quest!(^.^)/
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I cannot believe the piss poor quality of this show, crappy choice of actors, dumbass scripting and Foxes 60 and 90 second commercial breaks every 360 seconds. And, I am sorry, but with such a pool of beautiful actors to draw on these days where'd they get that Japanese chick? Sarah Jessica Parker's got nuthin' on her.
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Any aisan must be Japanese, I guess.
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Australian and Tibetan. Pretty interesting and unique combination.
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Pathetic.
Amateurish acting/writing when the dolls were making their escape.
Paul Ballard seems to be part of a prequel time-line.
Twice as much Topher as any masochist could want.
Way too S . . . L . . . O . . . W.
Whedon should find a job lettering a comic book. His day is done. -
Episode 1 - 4.8 million, 2.0 in 18-49 demo.
Episode 2 - 4.3 million, 1.7 in 18-49 demo. 5% share.
Episode 3 - 4.2 million, 1.6 in 18-49 demo. 5% share.
Episode 4 - 3.5 million, 1.5 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Episode 5 - 4.3 million, 1.6 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Episode 6 - 4.1 million, 1.5 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Episode 7 - 3.9 million, 1.3 in 18-49 demo, 4% share. (In the finals it was 1.4 in 18-49 demo).
Episode 8 - 3.5 million, 1.4 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Cut/Paste courtesy of whedonesque[dot]com via gossi
Still better ratings than T:SCC but not near enough to get either show renewed. But Dollhouse is still running for the entire 13 scheduled episodes. Full ratings lineup for friday at mediaweek[dot]com.
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Caroline signed the Dollhouse contract because no one would talk to her anymore after they'd get their fill of her self-righteous sophomoric SAVE THE BUNNIES motif.
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another really good episode. the war is hotting up, not quite sure why dean warned lillth what was going on. why not dump chuck in the room, grab sam and get the fuck out of there so the arcangel could do their thing. what did chuck see at the ending!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nice to see that bsg baltar chick get some work. and i hope the demons keep on possessing hot chicks
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Oh man, some of you people. Anyone claiming Buffy was "pussy-ass" needs to seriously consider taking meds for their overworked ballsack. Is it because Buffy featured a strong female protagonist? Is that scawy? Angel was great, too, but "pussy-ass"??? You're out of your testosterone-filled brains. I don't always agree with PETA or their tactics, but A) she's not actually with PETA B) the acronym is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. How is that fucking objectionable? C) Are you all just Nugent-worshipping troglodytes that a character who gives a shit about animal rights in scientific testing is somehow anathema? Supernatural IS f'n awesome. It admittedly has some clunker episodes, moreso than "pussy-ass" Buffy, but it's still an incredibly solid show. This Dollhouse episode was amazing. I get the cop-out criticisms, but I think that's sour grapes on the part of people who got tricked as the episode intended. You were meant to believe that the actives could escape. Goal achieved.
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The burgeoning relationship between Victor and Sierra is thus far my favorite aspect of the show. I really, really hope that it doesn't get dropped. Being a Whedon show, it'll probably end in bitter horror, but I'd like to see the happy stuff that leads up to the bitter horror.
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And to hell to anyone who doesn't think Miracle Laurie isn't fucking hot.
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I did like the episode (again, not quite as much as the last two). I just felt it was a bait and switch. The preview from last week implied 'everything would change' and it was 'the episode we'd been waiting for'. But I guess that's just naitivity on my part since that's probably the marketing machine kicking into overdrive, so I understand. I read comic books, fer Christ's sake, so I know about creators claiming any given issue/episode will 'change everything forever!'
And anyway, the only thing I was really disappointed about was not the fact the whole 'Awakening' was rigged; hell, they spelled that out half-way through the episode. What I was disappointed about was the explanation they give. How can you scientificaly determine when someone 'Feels Closure'? And if it's that Topher's Magic Brain Chair and Computer Skillz are leaps and bounds above modern technology (which, granted, was also flat out told to us this episode), and that he can gauge shit like that ('nerves talking to the brain', I believe Topher said), then why'd they have to 'naturally' induce it? Couldn't he have just induced it himself, if he could gauge what the brain would perceive? Is any of this making sense? Because I think I confused myself in there somewhere.
Well, at least it's not time travel. *sneaks back over to Lost TB* -
First off, can't believe you addressed the BtVS "pussy" slur - I so wanted to but at that stage of the TB, I just wanted everyone to get along. (gloves are off and were thrown in the bin while ago).
I also think that just because we saw Caroline on Campus, it could mean she was planted there to begin with. Last week, I mentioned I felt there was this strange kinship between Adelle and Caroline and someone mentioned on this TB that they could be Mother/daughter. I had that same feeling. And the "ginuea pig" shit..I just felt like it connected in a mad scientist bringing back their own dead type of way.
PS: SOUR GRAPES! -
I don't know man, your brain can induce hunger, laughter, breathing, crying...maybe there is the sense of satifaction as well. And I honestly think that the Dollhouse is built on a house of cards and those cards are lies.
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So I'm guessing that this episode was how studios let artists go off and do thier wee independent film/theatre pieces but they will always feel compelled to go back to the studios where the big funding is.
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the brain INDUCING closure, BW, it's the fact that they seemingly could gauge when the brain had experienced that sensation. And if Topher could gauge that, why couldn't he just tell their brains they'd had closure? Why bother with this whole costly charade that could have ended up with a dead Active (hell, they completely lost Echo for a minute so they weren't under total protection/survaillance) when he can send those magical talking nerves to theier brain and tell it what to believe/feel/experience? Just didn't seem to make sense to me. But then again...it's the whole concept of a 'glitch', I guess, isn't it? Maybe there are certain innately human sensations they can't control. (a Whedon show about the indomitable will of the human spirit triumphing over all? Who'd a thunk that?)
And I'm glad you agree with me on the mother/daughter angle. Caroline DeWitt. Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? ;) -
Bad casting.
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How darest thou speak an unkind word about Christina Hendricks! And in a Whedon thread no less. We like our Yosaffbridges with a little meat on their bones. bOObies!
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I dunno if that's even remotely confirmed (Tudyk = Alpha). I just heard someone mention it as possibility or maybe just a rumor.
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GET OFF MY LAWN KIDS!
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Ok, you guys have talked me into it. I remember watching some of the episodes from season one and not being very impressed. I’m gonna give a shot through season 2 though and see what’s what.
On a side note, is Coaxial just about the things Herc likes? Seems to me that proper coverage should be things liked and disliked but perhaps I got it all wrong.
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It’s been seven episodes leading up to this week’s episode and all I can say is it’s about fucking time. Episode 8 is just about everything I could have hoped for in an ep. of Dollhouse……except for the last two minutes, but I’ll get to that in a minute.
First thing that put this far and above the previous episodes is that we finally get to see the dolls with something other than a goofy Forest Gump look on their face. There’s finally something there to root for. Dichen Lackman (Sierra) continued to show she has twice the acting chops of Dushku and that she should have been the lead all along. Victor was great and I really liked the story best when it was between he and Sierra. When Echo has Topher at gun point I kept thinking, shoot him!! Shoot in the head!! Do it!! But, alas, she didn’t. I think I figured out why I don’t like the guy so much. He’s obviously supposed to be the trademark Whedon comedy relief of the show. But for whatever reason, he comes off as a smartass instead of being funny. Not sure if it’s his delivery or if it’s just that he is so naturally annoying.
Ballard finally picked up something interesting this week too. And Wash!! Geek-gasm. It was good to see him in a role.
In short, I was really into this weeks episode instead being generally critical of the thing from minute one. All through the ep. I was praying, please sweet baby Jesus, don’t let this be some big misdirection and have things go back to where they were before. Unfortunately the baby Jesus did not answer my prayers and it was all a dream…..I mean it was all just a ruse to give the dolls some closure…..groan.
This ep. showed what the show can be, but I fear we’re going to be back to the same ole boring doll adventure of the week with the less than capable Dushku. Sigh. The previous seven episodes feel like they’ve been solely about laying the groundwork for this episode. That’s a really long time to set something up but I could have lived with that where it not for the “it was only a dream” ending we got. I sincerely hope I’m wrong about that, but I fear I am not.
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Sorry if talk about Tudyk got people up in arms, but Wash wasn't in this episode. He hasn't been on Dollhouse at all. Skyler Stone played tech guy Jimmy that Ballard went to with the device he found in his vent.
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The commercial preview at the end of last weeks episode was one of those ones where they say, "It's the one you've been waiting for: THE AWAKENING" when in reality it was all a scheme. I actually would've thought that the show would've taken a better direction if the actives actually did remember and they followed that story line for a few episodes, like a prison break or fugitive type thing. Also it seems to me that this show's production design or art direction is about 10 years behind. They use these huge dell computers and the psuedo asian motif of the dollhouse itself seems dated. I know there's budget considerations but when CSI MIAMI has touch screen technology and huge futuristic sets and computer technology it seems 10 years in the future while Dollhouse should seem like it is in the future unless that's some twist to it. Also, the story behind how dollhouse was created seems like Dukshu just cornered Whedon at a lunch meeting because she really wanted or needed a job and wasn't going to let him go until she got a series. Seriously, she always talks about how they had this four hour lunch and she was pitching ideas then he went to the bathroom and came back from there with the idea for dollhouse as if by miracle. He was probably just like, "Alright, Dukshu here's something I just made up but we can probably get it made if you really need a job." From what I gather some serious work has been done on it since original pilot and conception making me believe my theory that it was put together fast even more.
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I think the problem with "inducing" closure is that they were unaware of what experiences the dolls needed for closure. They needed to let the dolls loose so they could discover it on their own.
I'm actually started look forward to this series every week. Now they need to move the show to a decent day and time. Thank god for Hulu because I'm rarely at home on Friday nights. -
Liked the EP. Thought it was a good way to flesh out the backgrounds of the other Dolls a bit. That November had lost her daughter I thought was a very interesting reveal (did she flee to the Dollhouse to escape the grief?), and that Sierra was forced into it, rather than persuaded was also no small potatoes (the girl has no luck it seems..). Looking forward to future EPs.
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All that churn with character development payoffs of only 2-3 history points. And Topher at gunpoint, but no joy.Joss should kill that guy, and one or two other characters to keep the threat real, not just another dollhouse game with a reset button.A big letdown after last week's episode. This could have been a turning point in the entire show--Actives escape, on the loose, the "science guy" dead and gone, and the dollhouse scrambling--new management brought in to replace the failure-prone folks--but no, just Wipe and Reload.
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Convergence of the Connors and Garbage Girl!! Well done!Brian Austin Green loses Megan Fox and his gig on Fox. Maybe he can score a gig on a syphy original movie....
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THAT would SUCK. Let him be forever gone, and let Topher follow him to the unemployment line....
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Doesn't understand why Western guys dig Asian girls. She sticks out like a sore thumb in the "doll" house.
But I can understand why they they hired the motherly Miracle Laurie to play the insecure neighbor, I mean she had to be obviously insecure about something right, and that thing is her appearance, so it's not much of an argument to say she's attractive and everyone who doesn't dig her is nuts, her role is the slightly less attractive than everyone else neighbor. -
I expected everyone to turn to Sierra and say, "There's one now!" You'll have to admit she doesn't have one of those every day faces.
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Supernatural doesn't really get on a roll until midway through season two, season three though....wowzers.
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The two shows are very similar and they both have their own strengths. The reason Buffy is called a pussy ass show or Supernatural is called Buffy with balls is because Buffy is female dominated and Supernatural is male dominated. My problem with Whedon is he brings his personal shit to his shows like his daddy and mommy issues, his highschool issues, his kitty pryde fetish, and his political views. Supernatural just lines up more with what I want from a show then Buffy did. Supernatural just doesnt beat me over the head with an agenda it just tells good stories. To me Buffy is like the best steak in the world with a thin layer of shit on top. For me Supernatural is the same steak without the shit.
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Hi-larious. And ain't it the fuckin' truth.
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You were a badass. Also, I always end up feeling awful for Savannah. Sarah should adopt her or something.
P.S.- If Lilith is afraid of archangels, how come they just don't send one to kill her?! Duh.
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I can see dollhouse canceled in a few episode.
Nobody on this show has any passion for it.
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Ha! My new name for him.
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I'll definitely give it until all the way through season 2. If it can give me even the slightest reason, I'll move on to season 3.
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The impression I had from the "good" episode was that she was willing planted into the program. The "stoned" episode undercuts that idea. Thus I suspect the "Caroline" that we saw was in fact a programmed "doll" persona, done to give her a cover to get her into the program with minimal suspiscion.
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Watching JH sing that sone with Savannah was pretty cool...the last few episodes have rocked..they should have had these kind of stories from the beginning instead of some of the crap that came before. Dollhouse is boring at times , other times not so bad. Not enough of the black dude and too much Dushku ( though not enough of her legs and ass )
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She may think she's all that but really she only rates a smiting when a prophet is threatened.
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Apr 04, 2009 8:17:51 PM CDT
Christina Hendricks has breast implants and she is fat!
by leafar the lost
I checked on some other web site, and in the picture I saw her breasts looked too round and perfect. Christina is a big girl, so her breasts should look more like Miracle Laurie's boobies. If I had to compare the two right now, I would say that Miracle looks bigger, but these girls can drop 20 pounds in a week with the right combo of medications and diuretics. Here is the web site with picture of Christina's perfectly round implants. http://www.makemeheal.com/news/christina-hendricks-breast-implants/584
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OMFG that TONGUE!!!!!!!!
Now that should be the entire premise of the show. Hulu Dushku licking things with that looong alien tongue. -
Season three was the best and most consistent season the show has had. It finally came close to the level of the show it obviously has been trying to emulate (X-files) and quite a few times surpassed it (the christmas episode). Very few "stinkers". It had the perfect mix of humor and some of the most brutal imagery I've seen on network tv. But considering where the storyline was going last year as opposed to this season, veering off course and doing some lighthearted stuff was believable. This year though, without ruining anything, a bit of a conflict is heavily hinted at in the season four premiere and for the most part dropped in favor of the comedy eps, and then picked back up. As much as I love the lighter side of the show, with what things are leading up to, it just hasn't worked all that well. Not to say it's gotten "bad" (although I did not care for the Universal monster themed episode at all), just like I said before, not very consistent. But over the last few weeks seems to be back on track building up to the season finale and it's final year, a year, I just don't see how it could do many comedy eps. Season Three had the best supporting cast. Bobby is around A LOT (always a good thing), and we're introduced to Ruby, a character that made such an impact the original actress became such a hot property, she was too expensive to bring back for season four. Which led to the role being recasted and raped this year, though, their could be a twist involving her. I'm not entirely sure that IT IS her. And if the writers are smart given the reaction she's got they'll maybe fix the situation, because right now, that's the only real downside to the show. What they've done to Ruby. Season Three also gave us Bella a british hunter/cat thief that was an enjoyable addition to the show, despite Kripke's gripes with the character and writing her off too soon. And another rival hunter that that brings out the most violent side of Sam we've seen on the show yet....even with some of the stuff he's doing this year, it doesn't compare to what goes down in the closing moments of "Fresh Blood". And the real seller of Season Three? Track down the episode "Jus In Bello" an ode to "Assualt on Precinct 13" one of the most enjoyable episodes of the show period, and a good example of how cool Supernatural can be.
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wow....and they wonder why so many girl have body issues. if she's considered big than man, i guess everyone else is a skeleton or non-existant.
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Seriously. Terrible show.
TSCC on the other hand had the goodness of seeing the douche BAG get shot in the head. Good TV right there. -
Man on the Street is still the best episode thus far; everything else--including this episode--has been pretty much forgettable.
I will admit, however, that there were a lot of elements that worked--the Doc's idea to resolve the glitches was pretty inspired, and Caroline's/Echo's ability to adapt and go outside the parameters was pretty well demonstrated by her being able to leak out a call to Helo. It's just that everything else in the episode was kind of silly. -
Apr 04, 2009 9:46:22 PM CDT
Yes, Christina Hendricks is big by Hollywood standards.
by leafar the lost
Miracle is also a big girl by Hollywood's strict standards of femine beauty. I did not create these standards, but they do exist and we must live with them. However, by any standard, both Christina and Miracle are fat.
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"I did not create these standards, but they do exist and we must live with them. "
uh... really? I do? try being less of a fucking sheep. -
It's called a pushup-bra love. Also, and I don't mean to be patronising but, different women have different breasts. Really. Of different shapes and sizes too. You know, like different men have different shaped and sized penises (or is that penii? nah, that sounds like pasta). I know that might be a bit of a revelation, perhaps a bit much to take in - ok I am being fasicious now, and I think I did a pun there somewhere. It may have been intentional.
Also if you think either Christina Hendricks or Miracle Laurie are fat, or even over-weight, then you may not have created the Hollywood standards of beauty but you certainly seem to have been conned by them. Either that or your standards are unrealistic. Women (and men for that matter) can be perfectly healthy when they have the right weight for their height and build. Christina Hendricks is about 170cms and a curvaceous build. She's probably a size 8 or 10. 12 at the utter outset. Let me be clear: THAT IS NOT FAT! (ooooh, get's me a little cross having to point that out) and may I also say that the only people who have to live by Hollywoods standards are people wanting to work in Hollywood. Everyone else doesn't, shouldn't and for that matter neither should the people in Hollywood. -
but you didn't shoot the deputy. (Jus in Bello--quite possibly the best episode of the series.) I really am liking season four ALOT...the stakes are clearly raised (as is the bar for the standard the show has set), but what i LOVE about the show is that what was started in season three for dean and sam has built and built ontop of itself many times over. The Dean plot gets better and better, and the sam plot (especially after last week) has gone in a completely different direction... both paths sam and dean are on are so compelling and incredibly original, each in their own right.
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remember the whole "you're not my jesse" diatribe they threw at us like five episodes ago? I bet you another reese from the future, JESSE'S Reese who she left behind shows up with knowledge of the changes in the timeline. Time travel is such a wicked thing.
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They kill off Riley, then Jesse, now Reese. All they have to do is get rid of Cameron, end the Cromartie story and Sarah & John can ride off into the sunset. Or the nuclear fallout, which ever comes first.
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I can't argue what you do or don't like, but steak with shit on it? C'mon. I think one of Buffy's strengths is that it DOES delve into personal issues. And it's not just Joss, so let's stop that nonsense right here. Joss determined much of the direction of the show, but it was written by a staff. Most of Buffy's relationship drama with both Angel and Spike, for instance, was due to Marti Noxon's influence. Supernatural is a great show, but it lacks the depth of Buffy. Is simpler better? Sometimes. But I'll take Buffy's "agenda" over Supernatural's simplicity any day.
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Miracle is bigger than Dushku, sure, but fat? Seriously? You want to use that word? I do think Miracle was purposely cast as the "less glamorous" gal on the show, but fat? You should get kicked in the teeth and sat on by Rosie O'Donnell.
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...that he realized that women like jerks, so he decided to become one in order to get a woman.So his comments here are consistent with his self-admitted, self-chosen Jerk status.Gotta pity the woman he 'gets' though....
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"I will admit, here, that I used to be the nice guy that girls would complain to about their asshole boyfriends. I was a massive geek, and I silently wondered why these beautiful women stayed with these assholes? Finally, after too many years of being alone, I made the decision to become like one of these guys. I didn't want to hit women, but I found it very easy to act like a jerk. After making this mental switch, I soon found a woman and I eventually married her. "
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Apr 04, 2009 11:37:27 PM CDT
buffywrestling: Fox Is Running The Full 13 Episodes...
by media messiah
...so it can establish a fan base big enough to buy and or rent the DVD set of Dollhouse, when it comes out. And as a bonus, they'll include the original pilot episode. This is all calculated.
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... that the dolls find out they're being programmed by a big evil corporation and start to rebel?
Wow, didn't see that coming. -
Apr 05, 2009 1:48:09 AM CDT
I was thinking Christina Hendricks and Miracle Laurie...
by domi'sinnerchild
had the best racks on TV before this talkback. Does that make me a telechubbie chaser?
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Stop overanalyzing things and let the story play out. I am, and I enjoy myself for an hour each week. For reference, my top 5 (currently airing) dramas:
1. LOST
2. Kings
3. Dollhouse
4. Gossip Girl
5. 24
And I watch the only four comedies of note on TV currently: 30 Rock, The Office, The Simpsons, and South Park.
So take my opinion for what it's worth, but that's 5 hours of entertainment that I get for free each week, and I enjoy almost every minute of it. -
how good is it at the moment. they almost lost me.. i think that tranny episode was the biggest piece of shit ever. but the last 4 episodes have been marvelous. i hope its just john and hot robot bitch next season. call it the john conner chronicles. sarah can just spend the season drugged up in a mental hospital again. the season could be the evolution of john. would be cool.
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Dollhouse will get a season 2. You heard it here first. Supernatural is great, best enjoyed as a DVD binge. Fellini it ain't but fuck pretension.
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I very much agree with that list...except maybe Gossip Girl (never seen it, have no real interst). I'd replace that with Fringe (and move it above Kings too), then shoehorn in How I Met Your Mother with the comedies listed. Adult Swim as well, but..that's cable. Who counts cable?
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"Jus In Bello an ode to "Assualt on Precinct 13" one of the most enjoyable episodes of the show period"
damn right!!!!
plus i`m with u on this one, ruby in the third season was way more cooler and hotter than in 4th, really the only downer of supernatural!
supernatural always has this "ode" kind of thing pro season another reason why this show is NO#1 in the fantasy genre!
my top 5 shows now:
1. supernatural----
2. lost----
3. 24----
4. dexter----
5. i would love 2 say heroes, prison break or smallville but they screwed these shows up!so i goes for tscc!
supernatural rocks!
jensen ackles for every superhero possible from "green lantern" over "captain america" a new "dare devil" or "flash"!:)
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I'd put Fringe on the List, but it's not currently airing...Ye Gods, Tuesday can't get here fast enough. Here's my overall 2008-2009 top ten:
1. LOST
2. Battlestar Galactica
3. Fringe
4. Kings
5. Mad Men
6. Dollhouse
7. House
8. Gossip Girl
9. United States of Tara
10. 24 -
But yes, I'm totally there with your list. Again, no Gossip Girl, but to each their own :). And please, let it be Tuesday soon (and Wednesday is right behind!) BUT! I also forgot Flight of the Conchords and Psych. Comedy lives, I tell's ya.
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And Breaking Bad's gotta' be in there somewhere, too.
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It was probably one of my favorite episodes of Supernatural ever. This season three Groundhog Day tribute is hands down the funniest installment to date.
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Most of the people commenting on the issue don't think the actresses are fat; therefore, there is no possible way Leafar could be correct in saying they're fat by any standard.
Q.E.D., and develop a more mature appreciation of women. You'll be happier. -
Dollhouse = always cold. Lets get rid this talkback
T:SCC = sometimes hot sometimes cold. Last few weeks fucking HOT!!! Where is the Talkback? -
People sell themselves into slavery in order to forget some past trauma? Ummmmmmm, bullshit.
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Whoa!
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I really don’t see the appeal of Kings. Sure It’s got Ian McShane but not even he can make this thing interesting. Of course that may be because I didn’t find the story that intriguing the first time I saw it……..in the Bible.
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while calling him hoople-headed cocksucker. I'd pay to watch that.
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Apr 05, 2009 10:12:20 AM CDT
Actually, Chromedome, I'm married with children and I'm fat too.
by leafar the lost
In another talkback I wrote that years ago I became a jerk in order to get girlfriends, and it worked. If nice guys finished first, then a jerk like me would living alone in his mom's basement (like Warlock in "Live Free, Die Hard"). Unfornuately, it is the exact opposite. In fact, I have to literally escape my home in order to get some time for myself. If one of my kids sees me trying to leave, they will grab me and want to come with me. Honestly, I wish that quiet, nice guys would get lots of women, but it is not true. I want to reach out to my geek brothers out there who are alone right now playing WoW in their parent's house. I was the same way, a fat, nice guy who spent every night by himself in front of the computer playing games and wishing he was not alone. I then saw the types of guys who were dating, and typically they were arrogant jerks. What I discovered was that being a jerk empowers you. It made it possible for me to accept rejection, because I could say to myself, "She's a bitch. Next!" If you are a lonely, fat geek, and you want to go pro-create with women, then you need to accept "self-admitted, self-chosen Jerk status". Don't listen to women like Amy Chasing. Use the internet to reach out to women. Set up as many dates as possible. Get a good picture of yourself. Clean yourself up as much as possible. Get a good haircut. Shave. Get some good cologne. Once you start meeting women in social situations, then prepare yourself for rejection. But, since you are a jerk, it will be okay. Oh, and a little alcohol always helps. Don't drink too much, because it is never good to throw up all over your date's tits. I did not make this shit up. Sorry, Amy Chasing, but I did not create the rules that we live by. I have nothing against fat people. I'm fat too by Hollywood standards. However, those standards exist because the audience demands them. Would any of you be watching Dollhouse if Miracle Laurie was playing Echo, instead of the ultra thin Eliza Dushku? I know Amy Chasing would say that it wouldn't matter, because Miracle is beautiful, etc. Then Dollhouse would definately not be renewed for season 2. With Eliza, it probably will be picked up. For example, women in America (a country I love btw) complained for years that too many ultra thin models were on the covers of magazines. So someone decided to put out a magazine with plus size models. Can you guess what happened? The magazine folded within a few years due to a lack of sales. Interesting...why would women complain about ultra thin models, and then not buy a magazine with normal sized models? Why do women complain about abusive boyfriends or husbands, but they refuse to leave them? Why do women say that it doesn't matter what you look like, it is what's inside that counts. Then, they spent thousands of US dollars on diet pills, gastric bypasses, and plastic surgeries. Maybe the truth is that I'm right, and women are lying to themselves.
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If we were going with a Hollywood studio/actor interpretation for this episode, it would be more like the actors (Dolls) want to escape the studio system by doing an indie movie, but they find out that in order to get a distribution deal they have to deal with the same slimy bastards they were trying to get away from. There is no escape from the Dollhouse system, only illusory escape. You only think you have freedom by getting outside. They're more than happy to let you have your little excursion. The corporation is always in control.
I like the contrast between Topher and Dr Saunders. Both are engaged in a morally shady business, since the Dollhouse is blatantly unethical, but they sort of have a Good Angel/Bad Angel dynamic. Note that when Alpha went on his killing spree he slashed up Dr Saunders but didn't kill her. Is that because she cares for the Dolls and tries to help them? Topher could be a genuinely scary character. Combines cavalier trust in technology with total disregard for the rights of others. When Echo told him to get in his own chair and he quaked in terror... that alone made the episode worth watching. -
This is the saddest thing I've read all day. It's sad that you have become a 'jerk' to get girls. It's sad you feel you have to be an asshole to get anywhere in life. It's sad you can't be happy in your own skin without becoming arrogant. It's sad you think nice guys don't get laid.
Perhaps it's the sort of women you want - perhaps your view of women is skewed.
I'm going back to my soon to be wife now - signed a nice guy.
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I pity whoever he ended up with. The truth is women don't like jerks, but they do hate doormats. You can't respect someone who lets you walk all over them, and if you don't respect someone you can't love them. Contrary to what geeks like you might think that doesn't mean all men have to act like jerks to attract women. It means you should be a normal guy who treats women like human beings instead of putting every woman on a pedestal for having a vagina. Some women have low self esteem and go for jerks. In that equation the jerks get what they deserve: a clingy, codependent fuck-up. Acting like a jerk only gets you places in life if you're a sociopath, and you are not one -- which is good news for your kids. Your tale of personal grooming and social skills sounds more like the steps a normal person would take to attract a mate, not some ineluctable crusade of assholery.
As for the weight issue, our culture has currently decided thin is beautiful. 300 years ago fat was attractive. The beauty standard is simply whatever is difficult for poor people to attain. (Within reason. Beauty also requires healthiness.) When people frequently starve to death from famine, Rubenesque curves are the epitome of beauty. When people sit around all day watching TV and stuffing their faces, thin is in. A single magazine of plus-sized models is not going to change an entire culture's standard of beauty. Women are not lying to themselves, they just live in a culture where 98% of media outlets constantly push the thin ideal. Railing against people who want to encourage a more realistic and healthful depiction of women is ignorant and absurd. -
Reese died like a soldier going into combat. I find that heroic and meaningful enough. Plus, it added to the shock factor.
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I'm not saying Buffy and Dollhouse are shit. I'm sure there is shit in Supernatural people dont like. I'm saying for my taste there is not shit in supernatural and whedon's shit ruined his shows for me. Also, I dont think good stories means a show can't be complex. Supernatural has a five year plan that so far has stayed right on track. They explained the rules and stuck by them and tackled alot of issues Whedon never had the balls to. I've drifted in and out of most of Whedon's shows and they can all be summed up with "small girl can fight", "Dads are evil" and "life is hard if you are a girl."
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Given that TSCC doesn't have too many characters to begin with, it seems like they're wrapping up the show. But then, did they know, back when they filmed this, that they weren't coming back? Has it been confirmed that they're not? For any other show, I'd say it was a bold choice, but now I wonder if they have enough characters to carry the show.
That's why I'm not a huge fan of Supernatural. With only two main characters, it tires me out somewhat. It's good enough to watch, but not good enough to excite me. But then, I'm only halfway through season 3.
Oh yeah, Dollhouse. Still not doing it for me. Given that Echo doesn't really have a personality, they could have at least given one to Caroline. At least I won't have to suffer too much when they cancel it. Not like I will when TSCC is off the air. -
Heh! That might actually make it worth watching.
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Supernatural has a five year plan? I'm only halfway through S3, so please don't ruin anything for me, but is that true? That's what made B5 such a great show for me and I'd love to hear that's true for Supernatural as well.
But I'll have to say that Buffy trumps Supernatural for me because the monster of the week stuff was off to the side. The monsters tended to be metaphors that served the interest of the main story. Supernatural has a pretty good main story, but the monster of the week stuff tends to dominate each episode. Plus Buffy had more characters to play with. You can only do so much with Sam and Dean. -
What issue has Supernatural tackled that Whedon didn't have the "balls" to? I love that Dean actually was in Hell, that they didn't cop out on that story. But in Season 6 of Buffy they reveal that the Scooby gang ripped Buffy from Heaven (or a Heaven-like dimension) for selfish reasons. That's not balls? When John Winchester died, it was rough. A great episode, very emotional. When Joyce Summers died, that episode destroyed. Utterly. That ep has way more balls than Supernatural's "death of a parent" episode. What Supernatural creature or episode is creepier than the Hush episode of Buffy, with the Gentlemen? Here are some other themes besides "small girl can fight", "Dads are evil" (which isn't the case, because Giles was a father figure and even though they had tension, he wasn't "evil"), and "life is hard if you are a girl": "some people need pain in their relationships", "don't do what's right to get appreciation, do what's right for its own sake and it will be appreciated", "family is how you define it", etc. And now we have Dollhouse, which is dealing with issues of human trafficking, personal identity, the ethical responsibility of scientists, etc.
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Sorry, sorry, sorry people. Hopefully that post didn't ruin anything for anyone. I'm a jerk, wasn't thinking....
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Leafar, that is the most pathetic thing i've ever read. you have no idea what you're talking about--i was a jerk myself. I have only had one girlfriend but have slept with more that i can ccount and remember even less of their names. I was a basketball playing, fraternity jerk. But being a jerk had NOTHING to do with how i actually got in their bed. Anyone who hooks up regularily with new girls knows that each girl responds to different kinds of guys...my job was figuring out which of those kinds of guys she goes for, or what type of things guys say that make her attract to a guy. You also need to figure out a way to learn this kind of information without revealing which type of guy you are too early. Being a jerk is rarley the case with regards to what women wan. What made me a jerk is that i'm a good looking guy would come off as that kind of guy the girl is into and then, except a few, i would literally hide from in the future...just because. that made me a jerk. or i was a jerk because i would spend the whole night fishing for a girl, and if i didn't catch one, i'd go up to onbe of my regulars at the very end of the night. Eventually a girl will start demanding a boyfriend, so i would end it righht then and there. once i had a girl refuse to leave my room until we had a relationship talk and i litterall slept on the front porch wearing nothing but a robe too small for me. Thats why i was a jerk--i wasn't a jerk to get girls, i was a jerk to push them away. Also, girls like guys who have little geeky habits--provided you're not obsessed with them and have no b alance in your life. for in stance, me and my friendsw in highschool called what we did on friday nights 'tgiftpca' or - thank god its friday to play computers already. we'd network computers and play till midnight, then go out to the club and sit in VIP (i went to highschool in mexico) girls got a kick out of it when they realized what we did on fridays and what that anacronym meant. Don't listen to my advice, but man DO NOT EVER listen to leafar's advice... he's a fat geek from the outside looking in, and has no clue about what he's talking about. BTW i made some very big changes to my approach with girls because ultimately, what i was doing became very, very unfufilling... but it was fun while it lasted, no joke.
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I think I said last week that all the major characters except John Connor have to die to fit into the T4 Salvation movie. We know Summer Glau and Brian Austin Green aren't in that movie. I think it's cool though. That's the way of the hero, they don't live happily ever after, they die in combat.
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Apr 05, 2009 11:59:44 AM CDT
And since when do geeks give each other relationship advice?
by johnnyangel
Hey to us guys, relationship = internet porn. Enjoy.
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I'm friends girl who always goes for jerks (ie, players/bad boys). She is very beautiful, but even her female friends agree she makes shitty choices in men. She likes some aspect about them, like their looks or how charming they are, and she thinks she can wrangle in the badboyness. But they end up cheating on her, or letting her get drunk while they stay sober so they can make her do whatever they want, etc. Then she feels like shit and can't understand why they did those things, when it's clear to anyone else they are just douchebags. For whatever reason, alot of girls think being a dickhead = swagger. There is a certain class of girls that DO like jerks, or at least what nice guys perceive as being jerks. I have fallen for them quite a bit. However, there are people who want a nice guy. Btw, fun fact: There have been scientific studies that have shown a link between what sort of man a woman is attracted to can vary depending on where she is in her menstrual cycle.
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Apr 05, 2009 12:16:49 PM CDT
Dollhouse talkback getting highjacked by Supernatural and Termin
by johnnyangel
getting highjacked by Dear Abby, not so OK.
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how 'bout some I'm-'bout-to-truncate-the-hell-out-of-your-subject-header heads up?
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no one posting on an aicn talkback is in a relationship, and no, your invisible girlfriend Claire, doesn't count. Even if she is invulnerable. The only reason you're here is because you're waiting for your pron to finish downloading. Come on! The truth will set you free. Anyway, I'm calling bullshit on all you relationship advice givers.
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Half-way through season one, ya jerk! ;) Buuuuut I agree with you on your Buffy analysis, so no harm no foul.
*Repeats exactly what Crashbang said to Leafar and adds*: I'm told by most of my friends I'm one of the nicest guys they know, and I'm not trying to brag or be a jerk or anything, but I've gotten quite a lot of action from the ladies. Anyway, I feel it's more about being sure of yourself than how you treat others (although, intentionally being an asshole just seems wrong to my brain). The way Leafar's described his decision to act this way, especially in respect to being a nerd, reminded me of a line from the song "Admit It!!!" by Say Anything:
When you walk by a group of quote-unquote normal people you chuckle to yourself, patting yourself on the back as you scoff. It's the same superority complex shared by the high school jocks who made your life a living hell, and it makes you a slave to the competitive capitalist dogma you spend every moment of your waking life BITCHING about!
Meh. To each their own. And that also goes for the Buffy/Whedon v. Supernatural debate going on. Geeze, Dollhouse really IS the free-for-all TB. -
I'm engaged, to a woman I've been with for nearly four years. Sooo...no bullshit here. :)
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That show is getting rough to watch, man. Dollhouse continues to be a decent, forgettable way to spend an hour, and again the shows best parts are the ones not involving Dushku.
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i wasn't giving advice... i was just saying its bullshit if you think you will go from not getting any to getting alot just because you decide to become a jerk. There's a difference between bad boy and jerk... bad boys do attract girls, i'll admit that.. but to admit that you're fat and started getting some just because you became a fat jerk is laughable. you can believe my story or not, i could give a shit... its true, and i know it... and had a hell of a time living it.
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I got caught up in the debate and wasn't even thinking. But trust me, halfway through S2 you won't care. I mean, you'll care because it's hard on the guys, but enough crazy shit happens to make it not nearly as important. All I ask is that my destruction involve fireworks and the music of Tori Amos, The Ramones, Jethro Tull, and Glenn Danzig-era Misfits.
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...at least the talkbacks won't be full of TSCC talk. http://www.fmqinc.com/terminator-cancelled/
So! More chance for a Dollhouse renewal or will Fox sweep the decks? -
I keep seeing that link, but it's a little too vague and a little too "I r internetz detective!!!". For instance, we know why BAG is off the show now, yet he tries to use that as evidence. Until there's something official, I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
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Apr 05, 2009 3:53:26 PM CDT
Whedon would never do the current Supernatural story
by a for aristocrat
He never had the balls to do angels and god. Granted its because he doesnt beleive in it and didnt want to support it but Supernatural is owning that now. As too what was creepier than Hush? The last five minutes of last Thursdays episode was far more horrific and creepier than the Gentlemem. Prophet Chuck having write the future, not able to do anything about it, and cant even kill himself because the Angels will bring him back to life. Now for Giles, he was a father figure not a father. Give me one example of a good biological dad in Whedons work and I can give you 5 or more asshole dads. Now obviously you get alot out of Whedon's work, his themes and allegories but there is just as much of that in Supernatural. Sacrifice, dependence, addiction, taking the easy way, faith, god, Family, destiny, loss, death, hope, its all there if you look for it. And I also disagree that Buffy's mom's death was worse than John Winchesters.
A couple of random comments from some of the other posts. They keep saying there is a five year plan. I hope they go on but I dont think it will happen. It kind of sucks because we lost 6 episodes from season 3.
As for not enough characters, character creation is one of Whedon's big strenghts. He can create dozens of them that people want to see week after week. The trouble is that the characters that drew you in to start get lost in the background. Supernaturals big strength is that they can focus on two characters for 4 years and still keep them interesting. -
Is wrong in so many ways, e.g. Nielsen ratings don't include international audiences; the sets have been taken down because they've just moved house on the show; Obviously BAG is looking for work, likewise the Weaver/John Henry arc might be finished this season, etc. Doesn't mean it won't be cancelled though, just that that blog is wrong.
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of TSCC. Granted, the show does two steps forward and one step back. For every two good episodes there's usually a crappy one. I do think it is a decent show and deserves a chance. The Friday time slot is killer, though.
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didn't the producers themselves say the show has no connection to the new movies and is in its own alternate continuity?
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A few more things wrong with your comparison. Especially your complaint about Whedon bringing in "personal issues" - you CANNOT tell me that the Winchester boys aren't chock full of mommy and daddy issues. Dean's issues with women (which really came home in that awesome high school episode), for instance. The idealization of their mother that both the boys had - which was interestingly undercut by making Mrs. Winchester a kick-ass Buffy type in the flashback. The whole 'sense of duty' thing with the father. But believe me, Supernatural would not exist without Buffy. Or X-Files. Or Kolchak. The reason why the show works is that it takes these shows' formulas and does something different with them - at least creates a different dynamic. This angel storyline is NOT terribly original - it's been done for years in comic books (Preacher, Ghost Rider, etc.) and, of course, the Prophecy films. But it is a neat departure from Monster of the Week. The other thing is that Joss would never do a show about Sam Hain, a Halloween demon. Frankly, because he's not that stupid. But yeah, I get that it's more urban legends than actual research. Ok, you got me. We need a Supernatural talkback. Anyway, Dollhouse will get renewed, but not Terminator. I guarantee it. And thanks for spoiling Reese's death, assholes! I haven't watched the episode yet. This is the main reason why I'm against posting about other shows in talkbacks. At least use spoiler warnings if you're not a douchebag. Terminator is decent but nothing special. I won't miss it when it's gone. Plus, what's the point when they kill off everybody?
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joyce summers died...and it wasnt even nearly the same league as when john winchester died!
sorry she just was dead on the couch and smg did the work dramatic wise.
john sacrificed him self for his son thats story/dramatic wise another level!
dont get me wrong i loved buffy it was really my favorite show in the 90`s beside the x-files and yeah josh had written a lot of good/solid characters but most of them had their 2 jokes pro episode and that was that.
true supernatural is about 2 main characters and had 2 seasons with a great third in john winchester! that part went 2 bobby in the other 2 seasons. some may say its a guest character i would say this goes 2 ruby!
anyway buffy needed 6-9 main characters so the show could work, supernatural doesnt cus the brothers fill all those parts on their own. they can be funny, bully, wisecrackers, goofy, bad ass and dramatic etc.
truly if buffy would have been just 2 main characters with lets say buffy of course and maybe willow, cus her part is more important than the xander character than the show wouldnt survive 2 seasons. cus only those two never could have pulled off all those acting levels like the brothers can do on supernatural.
therefor the acting range of smg and alyson is 2 limited!
another reason why those 2 ladies are in neverland movie career wise.
both had their 1-2 ensemble movie hits when they were at the top with buffy and where are they now?!
if the show wasnt that good written smg would have been faraway from being funny, without her 1-2 good written lines, she would bring coldness into a fridge!
dont believe? in case of buffy pick any character and i tell u what they cant be....act!
example... nicholas brendon he never could have pulled off a believable bad ass or a bully, he tried in some episodes and failed hard! he was always the funny dude/nerd whatever?!
about the winchester brothers...they can play it all and believable.
i tell ya...and u can read a lot of talkbacks its not without a reason people always bring up jensen ackles name if a superhero needed 2 be casted like green lantern etc
this dude will make it big someday, he is of course better than jarred even jarred is good himself, but jensen is the fan fave and the chick magnet!:)
about the stories/villains...pro season... the main theme, another win for supernatural.
nearly in every main story the villains in buffy were over the top or grotesque, so that was always a downer! in supernatural the main villains are freaky bad ass but never over the top.
so far supernatural always topped the season before that never happend with buffy.
buffy season 1 was shit, i hardly survived it, 2 was ok, 3 was great, 4 not so great, 5 was the best, 6 was lame and then it went downhill!
if we can talk about a kind of reality in both of the shows...well its a another win for supernatural.
supernatural has a more realistic look monster, ghosts and vampire wise.
in buffy some creatures were beyond believable or grotesque in their suits.
all in all supernatural has atmosphere its better written story and character wise, it has the better music and the better cast.
its more serious in the dramatic stuff and more goofy in the funny stuff!
winchesters 4ever! -
Just to spell it out for the Whedon haters: how Whedon changed the genre? Simple. The high school is hell concept. During the first season, the execution was inelegant (sometimes a bit too on the nose) but still brilliant ideas. By making the monsters metaphors for teen problems, Joss took the horror genre, myths and legends, etc. and made them immediate for a contemporary audience. X-Files did this a bit, but the themes were much more about belief, faith, and skepticism (at first about phenomena, but eventually about 'love'). Now obviously, literary monsters have always been metaphors - especially Stoker's Dracula and Shelley's Frankenstein's monster. But Joss made them immediately relatable to everyday issues that anyone, women and men, high school age and waaay past high school age. Though I do believe that one aspect of Aristocrat's comparison is correct: Supernatural does explore masculinity and male homosocial (it doesn't mean gay, look it up) relationships in a way that Buffy never did. But I don't agree that it's necessarily better because it's about men. Angel also did similar things (esp. with Angel, Wesley, and Spike). But what makes Supernatural unique is that it's about brothers. There's no surrogate family, as in Joss's shows. There's actual family, as fucked up as it is. And what also sets the show apart is the 'folklore' aspect of it. X-Files and Buffy certainly drew from folklore, but Supernatural is entirely about that - more specifically, how American culture engages and reproduces folklore. And it continues a trend that Blair Witch Project re-ignited back in 1999. That sense of 'the occult' in everyday life within suburban and rural American culture, as opposed to the more heightened, rarified culture of a fictional Southern California in Buffy. Buffy, I think, owes more to fantasy novels, literature and comic books than to folklore. But with Supernatural, it's all about oral tradition. It draws on a similar energy as what's known as 'legend-tripping' - when young people go to 'scary places' like graveyards and abandoned houses to tell stories, dare each other, and prove their bravery (manhood when it's specifically males involved) by engaging in certain rites of passage. Ok, so maybe I've thought about this a bit too much. But I think there's room in the pantheon for both shows. Now, Dollhouse - that's much different, more part of a Philip K. Dick/Gibson science fiction, more postmodern, more uncertain and uncertain in terms of identity, power and society. Fits much more into a context in which shows like Battlestar Galactica, Terminator are on the air.
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I think you're confusing 'action' with emotional resonance. And I think you missed the point of The Body episode entirely. The whole point of Joyce's death was EXACTLY that it wasn't dramatic, sacrificial or anything. It was mundane. Could happen to anybody. Buffy could fight vampires and demons, but not a simple brain aneuyrism. Thus it was more real, naked, and striking than any kind of 'death by demon' story could ever have done. It was a decent story when Mr. Winchester died. But I didn't feel a thing about it or did it resonate. It was important for the story and affected the brothers. But it wasn't a universal experience. And most of the things you state are 'better' about Supernatural simply reveal your personal taste - they're not objective comparisons. With my comparisons, I try to look at how the two shows are different, but I'm not arguing about 'better' (personally, I think Buffy is always going to be better as a whole, but I probably have different criteria than you. Though I would definitely concede that some really good Supernatural episodes are better than some mediocre Buffy episodes).
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the other reason why Whedon would 'never' do this Supernatural storyline is because Supernatural was always established as a Judaeo-Christian world, even if that world is a bit different from what Christians are taught. They talk about God and Lucifer and the war between heaven and hell. The Buffyverse never had any of that. It was always a more Lovecraftian world. But there was no supreme deity or devil. There were only vague 'powers that be' and various kinds of hell dimensions. But there wasn't Hell in the traditional sense. So Supernatural's current storyline would never have fit in the Buffyverse as it was established. So another unfair comparison.
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I consider myself a fundamentalist Agnostic - I firmly believe I have no idea WTF is the theological truth. But if I lived in a world with Vampires, and those vampires could be killed with holy water blessed by Catholic priests, and are repelled and burned by a cross... I think that'd have me pontificating about the truth of Christian mythology.
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On one level, the holy water and crucifix are leftovers from vampire mythology. Now even though the cosmology of the Buffyverse was not a Christian one, it did acknowledge that there were Christians. I especially think of the Buffy/Faith switch episode where some vampires take over a church and ask 'what were we afraid of'?, implying that belief and superstition were a major part of the power of those symbols. Oddly enough, they are spurred on to do this by the ironically named Adam, who puts forth a godless, rational and mechanized view of the universe and encourages the vampires to empower themselves with Reason. Anyway, on the show, it becomes clear that the effect of crosses (not crucifixes, no guy hanging there) and holy water is more a magical one than a religious one. There were still the trappings of Christianity, especially all the Latin in the incantations. But the show was drawing on the history of medieval magick, which was part of Christian culture. But folk practitioners would use the Bible and communion hosts for magical purposes, separate from any Christian belief or dogma. Again, this is very different from Supernatural that very clearly deals with a Christian cosmology.
one more thing about Buffy vs. Supernatural. Again, the whole point about Buffy was not that the gang was some badass demon strike crew. Rather, it was about how the most unlikeliest people were fighting back the forces of darkness: a former cheerleader, a nerdy average guy, a brainy computer geek, and a stodgy British librarian. So totally different purposes and intentions. Now there's some connection with Buffy's 'calling' as a slayer, and Dean and Sam's 'calling' as hunters and that it's always going to be a losing battle - especially that death seems the only way out for both Buffy and the Winchesters. And sometimes, even death doesn't take. Even the fact that both shows have 'apocalypses' is different. Buffy had multiple apocalypses (as the show eventually joked about), undercutting the Christian notion of One apocalypse and end of time. But just because both shows have demons and witches, doesn't mean they are the same. They have very different core philosophies and purposes. -
Very true - it is sometimes a fine line, and other times just difficult at first to tell the difference, between confidence and arrogance.
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I find myself agreeing with both sides of the arugments... i gotta admit--i thought johns death was better and more powerful than joyce's death, but changed my mind when the point was made that joyce's death came out of left field and was unavoidable, but ultimately, more true to reality. There was no long, drawn out setup in the name of creating conflict and tension like 'will she/won't she... will buffy save her... it just happened before any of that (what would have been) lame set up and more of a gimmick death than a shocking and powerful one. On the flipside, buffy coped and eventually got over it, whereas supernatural managed to BUILD upon the death of john. he died, sacrificing himself--it was done...but then, like a season later, we see him released from hell, smiling and proud of his son's. So that gave closure... but then, like another season down the line, it continued to build, when we realize he was in there for 100 years... A HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS in hell, and was not corrupted and never gave in. I thought he was badass since the start, but learning that fact made his badassness go through the roof. I think both deaths were powerful and were handled two different ways, and both worked fantastically for both shows. Both shows are some of the best tv i've watched, and yeah, they can be compared, but they ultimately are fundamentally different stories with complex mythology and shed light on all sorts of character conflict, relationships and situations. Any buffy/angel fan has no excuse to not watch supernatural and vice versa. It is pointless and stupid to fight over which is better (which suprisingly isn't really the case in this talkback, for the most part). Buffy is allegorical, no doubt, and we're talking serious allegory on tons of topics, but supernatural isn't... that doesn't make buffy better, it is just a difference in goal and what needs to be done to make each show continue to get more and more compelling... both succeed brilliantly in what each show sets out to do. I don't think any level headed person could read this talkback and argue that supernatural should not have a talkback... it needs one, and yes, it is a travesty, as (especially at the bottom herE) we CLEARLY have the desire to talk about this brilliant show and all have valuable insight.
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It's interesting, how much Supernatural and Buffy are reflexes of some of the same stories. That's the nature of myth, I think, anyway. I think you're right that the devil, so to speak, is going to be always be in the details. I haven't seen enough of Buffy to make a proper comparsion, but I would argue that John's death was a driving factor in all of the boys subsequent choices, Dean going to hell, Sam's actions with Ruby. Everything. I think John's death had such an enormous impact - a devastating, emotional impact that we still aren't even aware of the full measure of the damage.
He warped his boys with his choice to become a hunter, stole their childhoods, depended on them for emotional support, demanded obedience, kept them insecure and nomadic, put Dean in a caregiving role since he was four years old, cast Sam out for the audacity to want permanance and social acceptance and otherwise was a shitty parent.
And yet, he was their dad. Their life. Their protector and hero. Dean's freak-out on the car was just one brief outlet of the emotion he felt after John died and the desire to stop that gaping loss lead to his crossroads deal to save Sam and the unfolding of events as we've seen.
If high school is hell for Buffy, family's hell for the Winchesters. In that conceit, I find so much material that I just dig this show so much.
Not that someone getting their hand ground up in a disposal or a vampire decapitated by razor wire isn't reason enough. I just find a lot of depth here and I think it stands up next to Buffy, different, but in that league. -
Christina Hendricks/Miracle Laurie are not fat, obese or whatever. Both have amazing sets of cans,. FUcks me off that the supposed ideal is a fucking skeleton or a playboy bunny. WTF! it's complete bullshit.
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'a dollhouse aside' that's just funny... talking about the show the talkback was created for is now considered an 'aside.' i like that.
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I wish I could like Dollhouse because I do like Whedon and want everything that he does to succeed. But, it's just that the premise behind Dollhouse sucks and everything about it sucks right now. The morality of the show is just too nefarious to buy into; someone gets busted for breaking & entering and then they get turned into a programming zombie to be pimped out? That sucks! Their "handlers" care about them? Everything is just too morally retarded to latch onto and I'm no bible thumper. I do have something against forcible prostitution or zombie slave labor. I can't watch that stuff for entertainment, I'm sorry. Why didn't he just make the show about programmable spies that learn a new skill every week? I could watch that. The whole 'Urban Legend' aspect of the Dollhouse is just wretched as well given that the Dollhouse boils down to forced prostitution/zombie slave labor.
I do like how AICN gives Whedon's new show it's own talkback a priori given the greatness that was Buffy & Angel. However, the show just sucks.
If the Dollhouse forum keeps getting hijacked by Supernatural, then AICN should give Supernatural its own talkback. Whedon's new "pimped-out" show deserves to walk the back alleys, not get center stage. -
I've read this entire thread and wasn't planning on posting because everyone's said pretty much everything, but wixmmm and laivine's posts above me just nailed on the head what I was thinking with respect to****SPOILER IF YOU'RE JUST STARTING TO WATCH SUPERNATURAL**** Joyce's death vs. John's death. There aren't very many, if any episodes of any shows that can match The Body episode from Buffy. I think that was tv at it's finest and everyone turned in a great performance. But I believe John's death had more resonance, and not just for the reason that he died. Everyone loved Joyce. She was a great mother and a nice, good person. John, on the other hand, was a bit of a jerk who had messed up his kids before he died and left a whole lot of unresolved issues for them to work through, which they're still doing.
Immediately after his death, Sam is suddenly gung ho about hunting because he's trying to make up for despising everything his father taught him and how he treated him. And then, of course, there's Dean, who's alway's had a low opinion of himself and, I think, a slight death wish, who can't understand why his father would sacrifice himself for him, coupled with anger at the whole "if you can't save Sam then you have to kill him" bit. I loved how the boys would alternatingly go back and forth between loving their dad and missing him, to cursing him for being who he was. It's like 2 1/2 years later and the demons can still get to them by bringing up their father. In that respect, I think his death (not the particular episode it happened in) was more poignant than Joyce's, just because his memory still holds such a sway over their lives that almost everything they do has a sense of "what would dad do?" to it.
As for the whole buffyverse vs Supernatural thing, there doesn't need to be a versus anything, they're in 2 separate worlds. Just because they're fighting demons doesn't mean much, it's always been about what the creators were going for. I think Supernatural made the bolder choice going for the angels and demons thing, only because the powers that be angle on Angel always bugged me. "Here's some visions, mere mortals, now go fight all that insurmountable evil, and we'll watch." Kind of no point in introducing them as a concept other than the visions. -
If it hadn't been for the Wolverine debacle, that show would've been the most discussed thing on AICN this weekend.
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Gotta admit, the 'powers that be' - at least how they were presented - were pretty cheesy on Angel. But one of the reasons why it worked is that Angel's mission was never about getting some kind of heavenly validation, some 'ultimate' good or evil, but rather what you have to do to save people at the end of the day. No grand plan. Now with Supernatural, there's this carrot being offered about a heavenly plan and reward, but my guess it is ain't gonna turn out that way. I have to say, Castiel's one of my favorite Supernatural side characters. I just like how the actor plays him and the fact that he has started to struggle with his faith. And although the demon thing on Supernatural never really worked for me, I definitely liked the whole angle where Lucifer is a matter of faith, and the demons used to be human. Unfortunately, those interesting aspects have been left aside for 'the grand plan' (I swear, I'm so sick of the 'there's a war coming' cliche on all these shows). This whole thing with Lilith being the big bad, in the end, I really couldn't care less about it. Doesn't really work that great as a story arc, the seals are just macguffins, and it's all been done before. Sam's descent into demon-ness and Dean's redemption are all that I really care about. And maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the Joyce vs. John thing. I guess what I mean when I say resonate, is resonate for the audience. I think most of you are talking story points. And I already admitted that John's death has greater significance in the long run for the characters and the plot. But as far as how the deaths were presented, there's no contest. John's death was predictable and inevitable. No surprises there. Whereas Joyce's death and how it was presented was a sucker punch that removed the ground from all the characters. I've seen 'The Body' probably 10 times, and every time it gets me like a kick in the balls.
btw, there's no comparison between Supernatural and Dollhouse. In other words, you're comparing a first season show with a veteran show that has had plenty of time to find its legs. Supernatural in its first season was pretty weak, with some awfully cliche writing and amazing plot holes. Plus, Supernatural is a pretty straightforward and simple concept - it's not really an 'idea show' like Dollhouse is. -
I totally agree with your take on Buffy vs Supernatural. Ackles and Padalecki can do it all acting-wise. Also, the family card is played much better in Supernatural than in Buffy. You pretty much summed up why Supernatural is such a great show.
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You are absolutely right about there being no Supernatural without Buffy. Whedon perfected shows before it like X-Files and Kolchak. I would say that Supernatural perfected what Buffy did which is why we havent had any clunker seasons yet. I would hope that when Supernatural is off the air someone will pick up the torch and elevate the genre even higher. I think both shows just cater to different needs even though its the same genre.
As for Sam and Deans mommy and daddy issues. There are plenty of reasons for Sam and Dean to have them. You could say John Winchester wasn't a good father but you can't say he didnt love his sons. In fact, the show has gone out of its way to show how much both parents loved their sons. I think Whedon brought in his outside issues because I have the impression that all dads in Whedons work are evil and all mothers are saints.
Another thing that began to lose me as a buffy fan was the episode where mister trick held slayer fest. In that episode they had a yellow demon that threw things out of his arms. At that point I realized that they gave up on explaining their monsters. Whedon decided it was about the characters and not the mythology and decided to create demon/aliens like from the star wars bar. They just come over from other dimensions for some reason to raise hell on earth. It kind of cheapened the whole thing for me.
Oh and to keep the what was as creepy as the Gentlemen thing going, I would say the Changelings, Rougarou, shadow monsters, and Doc Benton were also as creepy. -
It's an awesome show. This season and season 3 rule. I for one am glad that they introduced Angels into the mix. It adds a whole new dimension to the show. Although we need more Bobby. The prophet Chuck?! Freaking hilarious. I liked the line where he thought writing himself into the prophecy would've been an "M. Night level of doucheness" or something to that effect. On a side note, CHUD reviews this show every week and it routinely scores 8's and 9's. It's a quality show. Also, on the TSCC tip *Spoiler* Although, I admire the ballsiness of the "Red shirt" like death of BAG, his character deserved a little more respect then that. Maybe a lil slow mo death or sad music or something. I mean the dude had episodes devoted to him for crying out loud. Doyle on Angel went out with more dignity that that...and he didn't even make it through the entire first season.
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She is a fatty folks. She even has a little gut. I mean if you like that sort of thing that's cool but liking it doesn't make her skinny. She's not grotesquely obese or anything but she is most definitely overweight.
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Idiots.
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Firefly, Profit, John Doe...sigh.
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I loved Firefly and Angel, but come on. When I've seen Reynolds or Alexis Denisof on the TV, I knew every scene they have is awesome. Dollhouse totally lacks that kind of charisma. Supernatural on the other hand has tons of it. Ackles as Dean is awesome (I hated him in every other thing, but this character, he nails) and I haven't seen a single boring scene with Castiel. It's just weird that Herc seemingly dislikes this little show, when it sounds like something right up his alley. Can't be the pretty boy factor of the guys, he had no problem with Boreanaz. I think when we finally get a talkback, it'll be a "funny one" about the show's cancellation.
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I think it can be. I've read dismissals of this show as "for tween girls" due to the two leads being good looking guys. Fairly certain if this show's main characters were Samantha and Deanna, it would be right up Herc's alley. That gives me an idea for Season 5 - please do an alternate reality Supernatural episode where the Winchester boys are girls, played by Kristen Bell and Eliza DushkuIt may not be that Herc has a bias against good looking male leads as a rule, but perhaps he has one against these two in particular. I could be wrong but I do believe he was not a fan of Padalecki when he was on The Gilmore Girls; and did anyone like Ackles on Smallville?
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...I've watched over the years. I couldn't fucking stand him on Days, he was pretty good on Dark Angel, on Smallville....well, the writing was all over the place that year, so I'm not gonna hold that against him. I'm no expert on the guy, but one of his final scenes on Days was him trying to outrun a train, and I'm pretty sure it was around the time Smallville was being cast. After finding out a few years back it was down to him and Welling for the role of Clark, I've been wondering if that scene was related to his potential casting.
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When he was on Smallville, I hated his character. Thought he was terrible, and I was really unsure of how he'd be able to carry a whole show. But after a little bit of Supernatural, I was relieved at how layered and likeable his character was. Guess it was just the bad writing on Smallville (and it was part of a Lana storyline, so of course it was bad).
FookU: Newsflash: Most people in the world are not pencil-thin Hollywood waifs. Heck, I remember when Dushku was not a pencil-thin Hollywood waif. People only get that way through extreme dieting and surgery. Remember when Christina Ricci had a woman's body, not some anorexic board? Miracle Laurie is a REAL woman with curves, as is Christina Hendricks (who is the hottest woman on television, hands down). That plastic surgery site is full of it. She is ALL natural. Doesn't need surgery. It's the dress and bra that defy gravity, nothing else. -
Just because some women aren't anorexic or have 6-pack abs, does not mean they are fat. You're the kind of person that helps foster eating disorders in women.
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Dean=Ackles. Sam=Padalecki.
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While you have to have a warped perspective to think Miracle is fat, she is "fat" and plain by Hollywood standards. The character even admitted that on an earlier episode that she was far from hot by Southern California standards.
If the argument is that by Hollywood standards she is fat, I accept that. If the argument is that she is objectively fat, you're out of your fucking mind. -
what-the-fuck-just-happened-I'm-sure-that-he-got-shot-in-the shoulder-but-no-there's-a-red-dot-on-his-head moment! Even though I agree with MisterE, I kinda like the fact that it was a fast shot with no blazes of glory included. And, the fact that it was COMPLETELY un-fuckin'-anticipated was just great! No one liked Ackles on Days? I'm embarrased to say...I kinda did. I was home-schooled, they let me off the chains one hour a day to look at the normals, and used to be a big Days fan, for all the melodrama and silly scifi-ish crap. So, I guess when I saw Ackles on Smallville, I carried over that hetero-fondness for the actor. I think, though, that you weren't supposed to like him. He was a sleaze, anyway, dating a high school girl while working there as a coach. I agree, though, the writing ruined it, too. Especially the way they wrote him off the show. Complete shit.
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Are you a dude?
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Shermie, I knew that. Just had a brainfart.
Derek's death being "COMPLETELY un-fuckin'-anticipated" - yeah, too bad I'm going to miss out on that when I watch the episode, because somebody posted it here without a SPOILER WARNING. Having something surprising happen on Terminator would have been a nice change. Oh well. -
Come on man... forgetting to write a spoiler warning is lame as fuck, but TO PUT A HUGE PLOT TWIST in the SUBJECT? You're a douche for doing that (i don't know if you're a douche in other ways, but you are for this) Not only did you write that he dies, but you gave away the way he died... you should realize you're a dick for ruining the best plot twist of the series. Think before you write, idiot.
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Ignore Herc's bias and discuss your favorite shows in The Zone! That's what it's there for. It seems like less effort than trying to forcibly take over a DOLLHOUSE talkback.
http://zone.aintitcool.com/index.php -
zone sucks. the discussions are inactive most of the time, which makes good discussion impossible. I posted a day after supernatural once hand only two posts followed mine, niether of them replying to me. Talkbacks are in a whole other league than the zone.
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and it didn't take much force, if any, to take over the dollhouse talkback...it was pretty effortless, as people simply have more to say and care more about a far more compelling show. its a testament to the show that supernatural comparisons to buffy actually showed intelligent incite and didn't result in a immature flame war over buffy vs. supernatural, when whedon/buffy/angel comparisions seem to get people riled up sso much of the time... but the lack of flaming shows that buffy fans and supernatural fans are one in the same, which is yet another testament to supernatural.
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I wasn't referring to Gaius (not to be confused with the Mr. Nice variety), as someone spoiled the Terminator episode without warning early on in this thread. And I think people have more to say about Supernatural because it has been on for 4 years, as opposed to Dollhouse, which has had 8 episodes. It's not because Supernatural is inherently more compelling. I stand by my assessment that Supernatural is good storytelling with strong characters with some interesting psychology and entertaining action, but it ain't that deep. Dollhouse is FAR more ambitious in its complexity and ideas (like all Whedon's shows), even at this early stage. Nothing like praising the talkback for avoiding 'immature flame wars' right after knocking the show this talkback is supposed to be about. Just thought I'd offer that 'incite.' Snort.
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That episode was the one that hooked me. The sheer randomness was absolute brilliance and I can't get that damn trouser song out of my head. I almost regret seeing it since next week may very well be the last episode of the series.
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------@oisin5199:
first of all i like how u work a lot of things out and u are right at some points thats for sure and i`m no whedon hater at all, i love the man for his work on buffy & angel...a lot of it!
joyce's death was mundane and without a sacrifice true and it was a great episode, damn right! in the buffy universe maybe the best thing 2 do, cus in this show we had it all, buffy died before, apocalypse was knocking a third time or fourth? cant remember it that well, we had a lot of those apos on buffy!;) buffy killed angel, angel came back, school burned down, angel left etc
on the dramatic level we seen it all. so joyce went away in peace, without a bang, a good choice, story wise it didnt lead nowhere, some episodes later joyce was gone no one cared really, another season later who`s joyce? ok it had some blabla talks about her and she came back as a ghost...but it had no impact at all on the story, on the characters! they all still had their goofy moments, buffy banged spike, they still thought about parties, school, college etc. there was not a lot of questioning there. i mean on a realistic note, ok we are still in mystery tv land, but when u are a slayer/hunter and u know the world is full of shit would u still do school or the college, or would u give it up? knowing the fact that the world is full of shitty demons, vampires etc?
on supernatural sam does it, he quits college and goes on a revenge trip. i mean it is was it is, the world is full of demons and u know it, why the hell would u need a diploma when a demon can set ur girlfriend on fire anytime he wants?! supernatural did that right, but not buffy! that was always a part in buffy that was so over the top, she kicks a vampires ass and goes 2 a party 2 find a new lover, cus the last one didnt survived an apo. or was kicked into neverland by herself. after that we see buffy brave and with the best haircut at school, yeah right!
there was always no point at all that buffy went 2 high school after knowing the fact she is a slayer, what about all the slayers before, they were slayers they didnt do high school they tried 2 save people but buffy was always a ego head, she needs parties, friends, lovers etc i mean this storyline when u have a mission and a responsibility cus ur good at something or really special, do we need 2 see a gucci coated slayer?
who only thinks about her lover, her graduation i mean sounds kind of trivial when u know the world will end soon if u dont get ur shit together isnt it?
supernatural...the boys know what it takes, they know they can save a lot of people cus they are good at something, but they also know they have 2 give up a normal life 2 get there. thats always the mission of a hero 2 give up something u would like 2 have a normal life or a normal realtionship etc.
buffy was never about that and thats not nearly realistic on a monster show level!;)
never worked for me on buffy u cant kick a vampires ass when u r in red leather pants with highlights in ur hair and have party date in ur mind, thats sucked always!
the winchesters sleep in their outfits they nearly always have the same outfits cus this doesnt matter, they are on the road, the have a mission and if u do want 2 have revenge or save the freaking world it doesnt need 2 be a freaking brand name on ur outfit.
well some say its a chicks show because we have 2 good looking guys in it, well then buffy was always a chick show cus its a female lead whos trendy, funny (written) we have the real source for edward in twilight, ANGEL! through and through a chick thang and spike for the more rebel chicks and xander for the chicks from right next door and willow the bff kind of thang!;)
i mean u cant say supernatural is for girls and say on the same level buffy is for males...lol
(this part wasnt for u oisin)!
lets move on...u have written buffy is metaphor for school, love, sex, growing up etc
well if u see it that way then its nearly the same thing on supernatural.
the boys are on their own, lost both mother & father...they are always on the run, on the road, heading 2 an unknown future...whats that all about, maybe a metaphor for growing up, living their own lifes, away from the parents, about life how it is for all of us after school? taking the responsibility for our selfs, we all drive down this road into an unkown future with all these ups and downs, with fun and sadness and on the way we lose some of those we love and we all fight monsters 2 get where we want...sounds like a big metaphor 2 me!;)
well sounds like a "personal taste" 2 me that as ******SPOILER****** mr.winchester died u were not that move? 2 me i was more moved as buffy jumped the gun in season 5 as joyce died.
i was never that into buffys mum at all and she really wasnt a main charcter in my opinion, but john winchester was! he is a driving theme in this whole freaking show supernatural and joyce never was in buffy!
i try 2 name it in better or worse cus thats how i need 2 feel/see a show, that doesnt mean its all about beating buffy down. like i`ve written i loved buffy and was an addict once and true without buffy there would be no supernatural but on the other hand...some said without buffy this and that wouldnt happend. FIRST OF ALL THERE WAS ALWAYS A VAMPIRE HUNTER CALLED VAN HELSING HE WAS THERE WAY BEFORE BUFFY!!!!
its not like buffy invented that freaking sport!
and i think that the really good episodes of buffy can keep up with the mediocre episodes of supernatural!
i also think that in a whole supernatural and buffy are not in the same league, sorry! 4 seasons of the winchesters are way more fun and more dramatic, way more pop culture one liners and a hell lot of bad ass brotehrs going beserk on demons any buffy season could keep up with.
buffy needed 8 seasons 2 have 3 good seasons. supernatural just needed 4 season 2 have 3 fantastic seasons!
@Toby_FN_Wong
thx man, i just see it the same way!
@Goody2shoes, damn righT!
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Before i respond to your points, i gotta say--dude, what's with the txt message form of writing??? is it REALLY that much easier to write 'to' instead of 2??? if you're an average typer, it should be quicker to type the word, 'to,' and i assume you're a decent typer based on how long that post was. But you're style of writing is jarring and makes it hard to respect your, or take you seriously. and Use ling breaks--just type '' (without the apostrphes)Now, i agree with a decent portion of what you said, but i don't think you have a clear understanding of what a metaphor and allegory really are. the examples of 'metaphors' you said supernatural has aren't metaphors at all--those are just normal, straight up subject matter of the plot.
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just type -- without the dashes.
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someone tell him how to do line breaks... it disappears the way i try to type it.
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bla bla bla
bla bla bla
bla bla bla
See? -
inserts line breaks, remove the spaces
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muri's post was unreadable
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That's what everyone had to put up with here until they gave us line breaks two years ago.
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Enlarge the visible comment form so we can easily check our post before sending. Eliminating the return key for sending the post. And add automatic line breaks. It's not that much to ask, and it would eliminate posts like his, as well as the multiple posts from those with twitchy fingers....or those cleaning their keyboard like one guy recently explained.
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Apr 06, 2009 10:42:07 PM CDT
So I just visited The Zone, and did a search for Supernatural.
by shermdawg
Only 45 results came up, and the last mention of the show was on Dec.28, in a listing of return dates. So no, that awesome thread I keep hearing about appears to not exist. There's more discussion of the show on the actual site than over there.
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zone sucks. never active conversation. that's what i've been sayin...
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I said it was a place that the people here complaining of no tb for the show could go to discuss it. There are also other places on the worldwide web people can go to discuss it. They don't need to hijack a tb for another show.
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...and it turning into a non combative discussion "hijacking"? Until the majority of this community moves to another site, they'll always end up talking about things no matter what....regardless if it's on topic or not. That's the way it's always been here.
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Several people over the last few months have been speaking of some awesome Supernatural thread going on over there. Which there's not. And even if there was, it's still, OVER THERE, and not here.
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You're bringing champagne to a beer party, only to find that they're drinking wine coolers and Zima. You come to discuss advanced mathematics.... and they're still eating paste and finger painting.
It's all good. Someday they'll walk upright even. -
Anyway the replies aren't as speedy, but on the plus side, they're also generally less stupid
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I like The Zone, I dabbled a bit over there last year, but until the majority of the community moves over there, it's a whole different place altogether. Hell, I'd be over there right now discussing AI, if I was watching it this year. My Fox affiliate killed the analog signal on the original date, and I haven't picked up a box yet.
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Apr 06, 2009 11:28:56 PM CDT
The majority of this community that doesn't suck, I should say.
by shermdawg
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Get some box. And get a box for your TV, too. You're not missing anything on AI this season - total sausagefest.
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and I was one of the people who was invited back when it was super secret. I'm just not one of these people that lives online. I don't have a Facebook or anything. Between some surfing, emailing for work and personal, and this site, that's it. AICN was more instant gratification, and I could barely keep up here, so I just didn't have time for another site. But I certainly invite Zoners here to make the conversations more lively and intelligent. But seriously, Shermdawg. This thread was hijacked. Just because it turned into an interesting discussion doesn't mean it wasn't hijacked. Aristocrat, really last Friday's Terminator hooked you? It took until the end of the second season?
Muri71, sorry dude but I just can't get through your post. You seem to be just repeating what you said before, in even more incoherent sentences. Line breaks would be an improvement, but you gotta work on your clarity. I do disagree about Joyce not being important to the show. When she showed up a season after her death in the alternate reality of the Normal Again episode, and as a "ghost" in the Conversations with Dead People in the last season, it was heartbreaking. And you knew the loss was there, even if they didn't talk about it. And btw, Conversations with Dead People (especially the Dawn scenes) was scarier and freakier than anything Supernatural has ever done. -
With the Zone,Chat,and TBs all intermingling in geek harmony.
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sorry guys, i really tried my best! first of all english isnt my mother tongue and second i really didnt knew how 2 make those damn line breaks, i`m not into computer stuff at all!
i like 2 write yeah, always did but in german! i struggle with every sentence how to translate it for me /you so it makes sense, not always that easy! thats why i write pretty normal/easy instead of a solid good writing like yours oisin. in german i`m able to do that and not write like a 14 year bully!:)
another reason why my gramma, punctuation, comma placement sucks, cus its really different than in german esp. comma placement! i pretty much understand everything and i can talk well (i do watch my fav. shows in englisch, cus here in germany we get synced every show/movie sometimes that really sucks, cus about supernatural both have bad voices nearly unwatchable, the original voices of the actors are unbeatable and a lot of the funny stuff is missing in the synced version) but about writing, its another thing you know! hope u guys understand?!
maybe i learned something today... lets see i hope its works?!
so long have a nice day guys! -
i`m a line breaker
now!:) -
Oisin, it was on my DVR list but it was always something I didn't think about. I liked the episodes but they were kind of just there. Friday's ep really made me want to see next weeks ep and that the first time I've felt that from this show. and thanks to everyone about the line breaks...hopefully it worked. As for what is creepy, it goes down to personal tastes. If you really relate to a show and are invested in the characters then its much easier to get scared or freaked out. I've gotten more scares and creeps from Supernatural then anything from Buffy.
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well its always a matter of taste but i was more moved as **********SPOILER********SUPERNATURAL******* john came back!
people always will have another taste which is good, some people are moved by this and others are moved by that.
i think johns whole being is more relevant to the show than joyce in buffy. therefor i think it is another level if we lose someone who has a constant impact of the characters and the story or if we lose someone who is just an likeable accessory, which joyce always was!
i really do like how u have everything in mind, nearly every episode of buffy i mean. i rewatched some of my favorite episodes of buffy as well, but i dont have it that clear in my mind anymore, like u have. to be honest i think its over 5 years ago i rewatched them!
but about "the body" which was a really good episode i remember that, i was pretty shocked about her being dead etc but she never was that relevant to me, i liked her thats all! i think it would have been really something different if they had killed giles in this season where joyce died. that would have been something like bobby ewing comes out of the shower and it was al a dream kind of shock!.)
john is the reason why the brothers are so messed up, why they are hunters why this whole show exits etc to compare it with a passing of a charcter who was never someone that important i think that wouldnt be fair?! -
well its always a matter of taste but i was more moved as **********SPOILER********SUPERNATURAL******* john came back!
people always will have another taste which is good, some people are moved by this and others are moved by that.
i think johns whole being is more relevant to the show than joyce in buffy. therefor i think it is another level if we lose someone who has a constant impact of the characters and the story or if we lose someone who is just an likeable accessory, which joyce always was!
i really do like how u have everything in mind, nearly every episode of buffy i mean. i rewatched some of my favorite episodes of buffy as well, but i dont have it that clear in my mind anymore, like u have. to be honest i think its over 5 years ago i rewatched them!
but about "the body" which was a really good episode i remember that, i was pretty shocked about her being dead etc but she never was that relevant to me, i liked her thats all! i think it would have been really something different if they had killed giles in this season where joyce died. that would have been something like bobby ewing comes out of the shower and it was al a dream kind of shock!.)
john is the reason why the brothers are so messed up, why they are hunters why this whole show exits etc to compare it with a passing of a charcter who was never someone that important i think that wouldnt be fair?! -
Don't worry about your English. I would love to see the non-German talkbackers over here try to write some German. Now that would be a big laugh.
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Ich verstehe kleine deutsch.
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That right there just reveals the dismissal I was detecting all along. Cuz Racist Ghost Truck is definitely scarier than floating silent skeletal dudes with face-splitting grins and scalpels... That said, Supernatural has had more scares than Buffy. I will absolutely cop to that. That's what it is trying to do. Buffy was never meant to be a horror show. But when Buffy WANTED to do horror, it was just as good as Supernatural. And for the record, Supernatural Season 1 was largely a clunker. It gets better as it goes on, but it takes a while. AND on an individual episode basis I would say (again, just personal opinion) that there are more clunker individual episodes of Supernatural than there are of Buffy. And I would attribute that largely to the design of the show. If the monster doesn't work or if something about Sam and Dean doesn't work, you have very little if any tertiary character plot to rely on. Whereas the worst Buffy episodes often redeem themselves because they have more characters to concentrate on. If Buffy Season 5 was just Dawn and Buffy the way Supernatural is Dean and Sam, I would have given up on Buffy. I hate Season 5 Dawn. A shrieking tween drama queen...
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WTF happened? I thought it was common knowledge that there were only 2 fans (cousins somewhere in Jersey) of this TURD sandwich. Now its up to 5, or even 6? Somebody please hide the bread!
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Try 1 less than enthusiastic fan, 1 undetermined fan, 1 questionable fan, 28 OFFICIAL FANS, and at least 3-4 willing to give it a shot thanks to the good buzz the talkbackers have been generating for this under appreciated gem.
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you can move one more from the 3-4 willing to give it a shot to OFFICIAL FANS, 'cause I'm already enjoying S1 (especially the soundtrack! Does it stay this 80s-rockin-riffic through the whole show?).
BUT...I still like Buffy/Angel better. :) -
Probably due to budget.
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Ha,ha, you funny dude. You exactly prove my point.
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Deal with it.
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is a really good show and I dont get why so many people trash it. I think the way they overlay slow music over extreme violence is effective. And Shirley Manson is as hot as ever
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