Cool News
‘Keep Your Mouth Shut And Quit Asking Questions!!’ LOST 5.11!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules.
Helpful young Ben Linus was shot in the chest on the island that heals people, so I guess adult Ben will just vanish before Sun’s eyes three decades later.
Oh, except Daniel Faraday has told us repeatedly that only Desmond, and not Sayid, can alter the future.
ABC says of tonight’s installment:
Kate goes to extreme measures to save Ben's life when Jack refuses to help. Meanwhile, Kate begins to tell the truth about the lie in order to protect Aaron. Guest starring are Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Kim Dickens as Cassidy, Doug Hutchison as Horace Goodspeed, Susan Duerden as Carol Littleton, Sterling Beaumon as young Ben, Patrick Fischler as Phil, Jon Gries as Roger Linus, William Blanchett as Aaron, Sebastian Siegel as Erik, Candace Scholz as Debra, Susan King as sweet young woman, Miko Franconi as grocery worker, Scott Moura as manager and Olivia Vickery as Clementine. Written by Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof and directed by Bobby Roth.
It looks like we finally learn this week about the secret Sawyer mission that broke up Jack and Kate back in Los Angeles. Cassidy Phillips, some will recall, was James Ford’s old grifting partner. Clementine was the daughter precipitated by Ford’s seeding of Phillips.
After tonight only six more season-five hours remain.
9 p.m. Wednesday. ABC.
Blu-ray Lost Sale!!
Herc Say Damon Lindelof
Comic Make Herc Happy!!
Blu-ray Lost Sale!!
Herc Say Damon Lindelof
Comic Make Herc Happy!!
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+ Expand All
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http://www.theonion.com/content/news/obama_depressed_distant_since (remove spaces)
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This one will be a little better than last week. We need some more reveals.
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Can we please start getting this TB posted first thing in the morning? Please?
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is spot on!
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...is going to be amazing. Tonight's gonna be good, but next week's gonna be better.
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... where is he? We miss him...
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Apr 01, 2009 3:07:24 PM CDT
‘Keep Your Mouth Shut And Quit Asking Questions!!’ Whatever Happ
by cory849
BSG, Heroes, Lost... I'm pretty sure that quote is the message all the writers want to convey to all of us. I read you loud and clear, fuckers. Loud and clear.
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Could you be any more of a virgin, Herc?
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all must be pretty tight considering they've been on the island for 3 years. why the fuck doesnt hurley bitch slap miles for calling him tubby. come on hurley stand up for yourself man!
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I really, REALLY don't want Penny's death to be Desmond's reason for going back to the island (to kill Ben, perhaps?), but the writers need to get him back in the thick of things again.
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is what fox execs are saying after the workprint of wolvie is out.
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Very uncharacteristic move for Jack...interesting. Yes, I know he refused to help Ben in S3 as well, but things were different then. Right now, Jack has just received assistance from Ben in getting back to the Island, and considering that the Losties still don't have all the answers they're looking for, it's hard to believe that ack would take that stance. Either way it shakes out...it's Wednesday bitches!!! Gimmie some Lost!!!!
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im getting a bit pissed that this might be the 3rd week without Locke and Older Ben. And no Desmond eather! Comon Lost! The less Jack and kate the better now we are getting heapfulls of the douchy duo.
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to desmond, the rest of the losties in presnt day and the next gen losties with locke. answers people, i need answers!
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im getting a bit pissed that this might be the 3rd week without Locke and Older Ben. And no Desmond eather! Comon Lost! The less Jack and kate the better now we are getting heapfulls of the douchy duo.
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Read Jeff Jensen's theories on Lost's relationship to Castaneda, which was featured i nthe last episode. The simialrities are intriguing. The "warrior-travelers", the "other-worldy beings" or "Allies" aiding in the warrior-traveler's journey that come from their sub-conscious, the inorganic entity called "mud shadow" or "flyer" that Castaneda says are "an essential part of the universe...and they must be taken as what they really are — awesome, monstrous. They are the means by which the universe tests us."
More on "mud shadows"...
"the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called the predator the flyer (italicised by Castaneda) “because it leaps through the air... It is a big shadow, impenetrably black, a black shadow that jumps through the air.”
In The Active Side of Infinity, Don Juan tells Castaneda that “the predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind.”
The sorcerers of ancient times “found out that if they taxed the flyers’ mind with inner silence."
"The main effect of the flyers upon our mind is seen in mental conditioning, brainwashing." Rousseau's group anyone?
Check out this link for more: http://tinyurl.com/cpxuty
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by not operating on Ben.
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Sorry if I didn't tag that last post with a spoiler warning; I know that some of you go so far into wanting all the plot points to be a surprise that you don't even read Herc's synopsis. My apologies.
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I like the Miles clip where he explain determinism. Something tells me that just might be the most relevant clip of the entire show.
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You could watch gia for more juliet
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I have often heard people refer to the Prisoner and compare it to the whole Lost mythology. I have never seen the Prisoner and I am looking for someone to empahtically tell me the whole series is worth the money or steer me away from it. I went to message boards on IMDB and someone asked on the Prisoner boards if it would be to a Lost fans liking. The venom that came out of the fingers of the Prisoner fans on that board was unbelievable. What a bunch of pretentious pricks!! One or two people talked aboput hoe the two differ from each other dramatically, but they would make good companion pieces anyway. Just about everybody else who commented stated that no fans of Lost could possibly like the Prisoner because Lost is a popular series therefore no good and shallow. I'm dead serious, look it up yourselves. So in just a few words so as not to highjack this board, could some of you feloow Lost fans tell me just how good or bad it is, and please, no straight up comparisons, it'll only get ugly. Thanks
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Honestly (other than Rose and Bernard), he's the only one I don't know where he is right now. He ends up at the building of the Swan, but how come he's not at the camp? What's he doing in the jungle?
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It's not worth buying, let alone viewing. It's utterly pretentious and makes no sense in the end. NONE.
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but you don't have to pay for it.
You can currently watch the whole series for free on AMC's website:
tinyurl.com/a23cyk -
I'll ceck out the first episode tonight after Lost
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The Prisoner doesn't hang together plotwise. It's cool as shit but don't expect it to make consistent sense from episode to episode or to have a satisfying series resolution. If you go in understanding and accepting that then you'll really enjoy it I think. It's an extremely watchable, very cool piece of period television - and yes, you can definitely find some debt to The Prisoner in Lost... but don't go in to it that way. They are very very different.
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Just read that ABC is pre-empting LOST to show a special on President Obama's vist with the Queen. Seriously...WTF?!?
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Sorry, it looks like this is gonna go way off track, so I'll only ask the one more question. A buddy of mine told me that they weren't aired in America in the right order and the DVD sets aren;t in the right order. Are they listed in the correct sequence at AMC's website?
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That better be a fucking April fool's joke.
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is probably in the Orchid station, conducting experiments on how to bring the Island back to before Charlotte ate it- I'm guessing.
Here's hoping he doesn't get killed in some gratuitous and ridiculous way before he can explain what the hell he's been doing for the last few episodes. -
I don't want rape and murder if I don't have to, but if it's true, and ABC Pre empts because of Obama and the Queen than I have no choice. And I'm starting with you
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Lost is like a sperm dumpster, such crap should fade away. stargate is like way better than that mysterious mind fucking shit.
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So just to clarify, you don't like it? LOL!!
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I say you. I mean me.
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The last time I checked a "sperm dumpster" is a girl. And I love girls. I also happen to love dumping sperm into them. I suppose you're thinking of dudes. Because dudes that take sperm suck. So maybe you are right...
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What I said on my last date!
That might be why it was my LAST date.
Hello friends! Good to be back. Feel like I came back to the island. And you all are wearing 70s era Bell Bottoms. SWEET! -
1) Juliet and Kate on RedTube, we need that NOW!; 2) Next Gen Losties, I like that; 3) Im still wanting to know HOW Locke, Sun, Older Ben are EVER going to hook backup with the rest of the LOST gang considering they are 20 years apart?; 4) Kessler, IF ABC really DID something like that, I would pick up my 50 inch flat screen and throw it out the window...wait, no I wouldnt. Still, Id be pissed for months.....Hurley needs to be the piss out of miles, and right quick
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Don't despair! One of the upcoming episodes (I think in a couple weeks) is called "The Variable" and is supposed to focus on Faraday, so you know we'll see some Desmond in that one.
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If the island is not done with him, I wish it would get shaking and get his Scottish ass back (easy Barfy and Fish).
I think "The Variable" is Faraday and Des heavy but still - it seems like it has been another life brutha since we saw you. And more Danny boy would be cool too. -
even still on the show? It feels like forever since we've seen either of them. Has Henry Ian Cusic been relegated to guest star status, or is he a regular member of the cast?
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Bell bottoms are a nice touch, my friend.
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Sopranos invalidated itself with that god-awful ending - you know, not a planned out ending befitting an epic show whose writers knew for at least a year it would be the last season - no, and ending befitting a show that got unexpectedly canceled, without any advance notice to the writers - as if the last episode wasn't meant to be the last episode. Cut to black, my Italian ass.
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Katie ate Aaron
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It must be bizarre to be Dioxholster and have an autistic need to compare everything to Stargate. "Yuck! this burger tastes nothing Stargate", "God baby sex with you is almost as good as Stargate(well... Atlantis anyway)", "Yeah man! You're Stargate in my books...!" Just bizarre.
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Just wanted to say thanks for posting that Onion story, I probably would've missed it otherwise. Really brightened up a pretty shitty day I had. I love the part where it says he used to playfully call his aide "Billy" Anyway, I figure you'll be back on here before Lost airs tonight, so I thought I'd let you know someone read it and loved it. Thanks.
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Quicksand. Where the hell is all the quicksand? Shouldn't there be some on a tropical island? Wouldn't they have used quicksand to dispose of polar bear droppings?
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Awesome.
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"the ending was like life -- not so neat and tidy and you don't always get an explanation for everything" In other words, David Chase had no idea what the fuck to do so proceeded to the most epic cop-out in recorded history. If the ending of the show was "like life" - as in realistic - then it was the only thing on the entire show that was. It was not a realistic show, but it was entertaining, until Chase royally screwed everyone out of some sort of conclusion, good, bad or otherwise.
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is NOT hot. That's just weird. Unless exhausted looking mom types are the new hotness? Did I stumble onto a MILF site by accident?
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the producers have no respect for their fans. the whole thing is a big joke and believe me it will feel like you've been punk'd at the end. Stargate on the other hand gives the audience what they want, and more. I gotta say, i was first a lost fan but after a couple of seasons i found it pretentious and stupifing. i called it sperm dumpsters because it is exactly that, the producers dump their sperm onto the show and then the show snowballs it into our mouths and we end up swallowing it. this is disgusting and even though i like J.J abrams i think he himself finds lost repulsive and he regrets making it. he also probably wishes he done something like stargate because its superior yet modest in its presentation.
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Just Throwing it out there: Homicide; Oz, The Wonder Years...just to name a few. I know Im gonna get flamed for this, but I also think Magnum PI was a show that had a chemistry between the 4 main characters that rivals anything ive seen on TV. Ok, im done
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it's really not very open ended. If you want to play the clues game(3 oclock and all that nonsense) than you could very easily make the arguement tonys dead. If you don't want to make that argument, well then its still pretty simple and nobody ever seems to bring it up. Carlo flipped, that's the nail in Tony's coffin, couple that with the gun charge that would go away until he got busted again, its all over. It seems open ended, but it really wasn't.
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I liked the ending a lot. And I like David Chase's reasoning for it too. He said he didn't want to send a message, either "Crime pays" or "Crime doesn't pay". For me, the worst part of the ending had to do with Melfi and her peer pressured decision to stop seeing Tony as a client. That was cheesily done. The actual last scene though was phenomenal. You can fill in your own blanks so well. Tony shot in the head. Whole family shot in the head. Tony arrested by plain clothes. Or they all just eat and go home. Awesome.
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The finale of "Quantum Leap" was originally written to be a standard cliffhanger episode, when they weren't sure if it would be picked up for another season. When the cancellation was confirmed, they tweaked the episode a little and it "served" as the end of the series. They also added a bit of text at the end of the episode (changing the originally intended ending) which was just inexplicably wrongheaded. It was an awful, clumsy way to end the show.
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loved Sopranos ending as I said. Hated BSG ending. It stank.
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i wonder if hurley's still fat. and if kate will pout. and that squinty guy will lie. i need to get more weed.
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we are supposed to be talking about lost here yet all you do is talk about this great show named stargate. whats up with that. the problem with LOST is that all its characters suck hard, no other words to describe it. add to the suckness that they are stuck in a sucky island. thats too much suckyness i can take. i hope to god that it ends by having the island drown and get drifted into an alien world. that should should stop the suckness. but the ending will definitely having the island sinking back into the abyss, that i assure you. i know people.
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dont blsme me fior suckky tuping as it is my kepbourd that is... im sleepy okay.
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Fucking sad ending. I loved the idea that it was him that kept himself jumping, because he wanted to help people.
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Imo The Prisoner is a great show with a weak ending... I would highly recommend it to Lost fans. It was definitely one of the first shows which attempted to tell a story focused around a long running mystery. Unfortunately, imo the ending was disappointing. Regardless, if you go in knowing that the show ISNT as good as Lost, it's still got some great episodes and was a forerunner of modern jigsawed shows like Twin Peaks, X-Files, and of course... Lost!
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no need to drop into quick sand. it makes excellent fertilizer, and the scraps make stargate epsiodes.
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I always that it sucked Al will never even know him now in the new timeline he created. If Lost has the same kind of ending that would suck balls- I don't mind leaving somethings open ended but I want a definite ending for the most part maybe wrap everything up and then show Bernard Rose hanging out in the cave or something like that
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If Stargate gives the audience what they want, then what they want must be a bunch of cheap Canadian actors walking round the woods outside Vancouver pretending its another world. People always defend Stargate, of course it has SOME good eps, they made the thing for like 12 years! Its got nothing on Lost.
Anyone else think the last ep was a bit off compared to the rest of the season? No Locke, Faraday, Miles or Desmond. Just Kate and her stupid stupidness. -
let's face it, we're fucking spoilt by lost. last episode was average, but compared to half the shit out there it was brilliant.
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I'd like to take her over my knee and spank her with my Linux Administration Handbook 3rd edition. and as every motherfucker knows, thats a fucking huge book.
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i jus walked around after that epsiode, i just couldnt beilve he was gonna leap around for ever. I missed that program. I fucking miss journeyman more though. everyone thought it was a quantum leap rip off, but it was fucking brilliant. just brilliant, and cut off before its time thanks to those fuckers at NBC
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Did Stargate get dragged into a LOST TB? I loved Stargate, but hell - apples and oranges. I never sat around trying to unravel Stargate mythology. Lost is a whole new animal and one I go past fandom for.
And Diox - enjoy another snowball since your into that kinda thing. Good God.
Chief!! Dude good to see you and the HoboNODE here. Throw on some Geronimo Jackson and lets BOOGIE! -
that someone created and I posted
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
Again, its a cop out. There are plenty of ways that the show could have ended, that would have provided a sense of conclusion to the story but leaving plenty of ambiguity, that would have given us plenty to think about. IMHO, cutting to black mid-scene was not the way to do it. That's not brilliant, its just ballsy and arrogant. I'm not saying that there had to be some sort of finality - that is not at all my point. Tony didn't have to die, or go to prison, or anything of the sort to satisfy me. Chase didn't have to send the message that crime pays, or that bad guys always get caught in the end, or whatever. Look at the ending to The Shield... it was almost as ambiguous as the Sopranos ending, but it was much, much better done, didn't leave the viewer literally hanging, but sure as hell left them thinking. And it also brought the story, if not to an ending, at least to the end of one chapter in Vic's life and the start of the next. It was everything that the Sopranos ending could have and should have been. Your ranting about how everyone who doesn't like the Sopranos ending because it wasn't some sort of pre-packaged, spoon-fed ending meant for an idiot does not make everyone who didn't like the ending an idiot. It makes you a snobby, elitist dweeb who equates himself (but not everyone else) 'getting it' with it being good, and who thinks anyone who didn't like it must not be smart enough to 'get it'. I 'get it' just fine, I understand the intent just fine, and it was a horseshit way to end the show and it sucked ass.
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Apr 01, 2009 5:19:02 PM CDT
Ed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
Great to see you around again Brother!
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I thought the Sopranos ending harks back to Bobby and Tony's talk on the river in the first ep of season 6. Bobby says that when you die, he reckons it all just goes black and you never know exactly what happened. So, David Chase posed the question, did Tony die? Its up to you. So if you think the ending sucked its because you can't think of a good enough one.
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it is an honor to watch you humiliate urself by supporting such a horrible show. LOST is nothing more now than a glory hole in a stinky bathroom. it is the equivalent of a wedding cake, where the newly wed couple never get a chance to eat it. the audience are that stupid couple and they are celebrating something that will end in 2 years of pain and betrayal. LOST is lost on all of us and sad thing is, its deliberate. stargate is far better but i know its not everyone's cup of tea, im just using it to make you mad.
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can i have your Linux Administration Handbook 3rd edition for awhile i need it for..ummm..like...work. i promise i will give it back :)
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if lost could take those stargate elements and incorporate it that would be great. but all it does at the moment is watch the sands in the hour glass.
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april fools.
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Sounds like your a pretty big fan of Days of Our Lives. Why don't you go watch it and leave us alone?
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So if Ben killed Penny then Desmond can go back and save her, right?
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...and even I think the ending was a sad fucking piece of shit cop-out. The mid-season hiatus was a more effective ending. Shit, Tony bleeding on the floor in S6E1 would've been a better ending.
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why dont you go watch ur mother get undressed.
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I didn't hear the entire discussion, but my understanding was they were discussing the recent AOL list of the best TV dramas, and that publication had Lost at number three. (Sopranos was one, and NYPD Blue was two.) To my knowledge, none of the main personalities on Howard are Lost fans, and I heard them say as much when they were talking about the article. They did agree that The Sopranos was the best.
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does anyone still watch? its kinda strange. but expected. its no stargate thats for sure.
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Yeah, I thought it was great, that's why I had to share.
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reminds myself when I was 12. Filled with unwarranted and unsupported opinions that confuses passion with fact. He'll grow. Let him grow (most likely after he watches The Wire or reads Gravity's Rainbow for the first time).
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Hell, they filmed and showed us two better endings - then the series kept going. 1) the end of season 4 I think, when Carmela and Tony are thinking of buying the house on the shore, then Carmela catches Tony, kicks him out, and then we see Tony lying on his back, on the floor, of this vacant house, alone, his marriage in shambles. Or 2) one or two episodes before the finale, ends with Tony lying on his back, in hiding, in some hotel room, machine gun by his pillow, hoping and praying Phil's guys won't find him, Bobby dead, Syl in a coma, family in jeapordy. Either of those would have been better to what David Chase ended up giving us.
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Thought it was one of the better constructed and tense endings ever produced. Initially hated it, but after watching the series over again with my roommates, I have come to understand and subsequently love how it ended.
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anywho, if anyone clicked on my fake spoiler in the last talkback but didn't bother to look at it for more than two seconds, it was an April Fool's. I know, it stinked as bad as my theories.
I didn't watch those clippies but I'm sick of looking at Ben. If it's just little kid Ben tonight fine but, I'm really thirsty for some Des. I worry that we're not gonna see much of him and then he's just gonna be dead. -
That is all.
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#1 Two And Half Men
#2Becker
#3 Manimal tie Hardcastle and McCormick -
Des is more interesting then Jack (Sorry BrightEyes)...and hell - less Sayid and more Des PLEASE. Or more Sayid Des bromance activities...
What is UP Paul! Yah man - Room 23 is a juggernaut now! I can hardly contribute. I will try to beat you in the morning. -
nice to see you all. i gotta catch up bad. i haven't been online much the last week
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First of all I "get" the ending, everyone "got" the ending. The fact remains that Sopranos was a television show, not an interactive experience and not one those Choose Your Own Adventure books we used to read when we were little. Chase couldn't wrap it up, that's the bottom line in my opinion. I think that statemnt is proven by how as the show went on the characters regressed and their arcs grew more and more tired and cliche. The show went on for too long and Chase copped out with the ending. Sure, life is open-ended and isn't wrapped up in a nice little bow, but chapters of our lives close and new ones open. For Chase to drive us through years of these characters lives and then pull the rug out from beneath our feet at the last moment and say, "you guys decide what happened" was a cheap ad lazy cheat. We look to storytellers to tell stories and I don't mind thought provoking endings, I actually prefer them. Stories have endings; even an open ended conclusion is still an ending. I guess the main point of what I'm trying to say is that.....
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I know, it stinked as bad as my theories.
You should be ashamed... -
Yes, it did win, along with SNL, Breaking Bad...and fucking ENTOURAGE??? http://tinyurl.com/cn4m7t
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Apr 01, 2009 7:19:56 PM CDT
Dancetothebeat - though I thought the Sopranos ending was ok
by miyamoto_musashi
Soprano's wasnt a mystery show like Lost or full of purpose and prophecy like BSG, it was a look inside the life of a gangster, his family and colleagues. Basically when the screen went blank our look was over.
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are these talkbacks going to be posted before 4 PM Central? Gee-Dee Heroes is up when I wake up in the morning!
Grouch grouch grouch, sorry everbody. Quit smoking yesterday and I am in a mood. At least I have Lost tonight--it's a Kate episode? NOOOOOOO!!!!!! -
you little pansy pennsy
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Team Saymond needs a comeback. Or better yet a Comeback Special. Bet they'd look superhot in the tight black leather... Mmmmm....
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Apr 01, 2009 7:29:04 PM CDT
Yes for Team Saymond or as I also like to call them...
by miyamoto_musashi
Team Kick Ass
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Again, I understand that, I get it and respect it. To me, and this is just my opinion, Chase cheated on a P.T. Barnum level. I actually liked the ending the night it premiered, I had a lot of people over that night and they were all screaming and pissed but I laughed. The longer I think about it, however, the more I feel that Chase just didn't know what to do with the characters. I honestly feel as if Chase just couldn;t come up with anything so he conned everyone into thinking he was clever with the blackout. Anyway, this discussion will never end and it's Lost night so let's get on with some Lost.
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You should have left well enough alone. Your BSG performance ran the gamut from annoying dickweed to brilliant Borat-style needling. Now....now you're just repeating yourself. Bad form.
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I know its all Google Alerts fault. Sometimes its a headache all the work, but its cool also. Please though let me if theres something that you want to post just tell me what and I'll keep hands off.
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...Season 5 ends with the '70s Dharma Losties causing/involved in the incident and getting 'time jumped', or whatever, to where Locke's Ajira crew are, just in time to see a plane crash, or boat land. A blond 20-something guy scrambles out to encounter, I dunno, Jack.
"Who're you?" says Jack.
"I'm Aaron. Jei Yon! Charley! Clemmy! It's safe, you can come out!"
316 DID travel in time...they just went the opposite direction Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid did. -
sayid doesn't check he killed baby hitler, jin doesn't bother radioing he has a kid who's been shot (who isn't bleeding), no one in the past 3 years has bothered asking who the fuck the hostiles are....
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"Sawyer sent me."
NO! Really? -
and quit asking questions!!!
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Never even a single "groovy"
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a Kate Ultimatum
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and quit asking questions!!!
(that's the last time, I promise) -
Will it even last six episodes?
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Sawyer: if you don't help, the boy will die!
Jack: wow...sucks for him! -
and fuck Kate, the brainless cunt.
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I thought they were using a guy as an arm double.
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I think that conversation with Hurley was just a transcription of two Lost writers talking. "Huh, I hadn't thought of that."
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...the producers have been reading the time travel theorise on this talkback! Hahaha
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Geek minds think alike. :)
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is why people who don't like the show waste their time to watch it
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Ben yanked her around over Aaron.
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Is awesome. Although I'm starting to wonder if the whole time traveling thing will become a Forrest Gump-y "Maybe it's both?" scenario.
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I'm curious as to how they explain things, as they've gone on record (okay, TV Guide) as saying that it's not a coma in this version.
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the loss of blood from the gunshot wound causes young ben to have amnesia, forgetting everything before he recovers....yeah lets go with that one!
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That's awesome. Feels like last Wednesday night. And how much of a douche do I feel like that my side of that arguement is being fought by Miles? I could never argue with Hurley!
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We already tried, Miles! It's hopeless.
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Ben holds so many secrets and only reveals them when it suits him or to save his life.
He's a pathological liar and consumate actor.
So who says Old Ben doesn't remember Sayid shooting him as young Ben -
Why are the LOST talkbacks always so late? Why don't you do invisotext anymore? Why does it sound like you haven't seen the episodes whenever you put it up? Did ABC stop sending you screeners?
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and thats probably the right answer
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they shot this in January, before any of us had seen the new episodes, and were smart enough to anticipate our questions and theories. Kudos!
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i had the over-under at 3 episodes before James removed the specs to bring home the gravitas. Looks like i lose.
siggh...models-turned-actors need such crutches, i suppose -
Creepy. So what are they using to revive Ben, ancient Black Rock secret of life?
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If George Lucas were on the writing staff, that would happen.
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relates to Jack? "fuckit, let the bastard die. Whatever happened, happened" ?
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I can't believe no one feels sympathy for little Ben. The actor who plays him really makes you feel sorry for his life, and I even felt a little sorry for Roger. It doesn't forgive his behavior towards Ben. Life is difficult. I've even felt bad for older Ben at times. A lot of tragic characters in this show.
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...talk about obese abuse. :D
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i hate Katie's character so much,, all she has been good for is the damn love triangle but damn she cleans out good
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because she doesnt want to see a kid die. I love Lost, but...shiiiit.
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Even as though he's a kid I'm looking at him like a manipulative son of a bitch!
Ben to kate, "Please tell my daddy who I love sooo much that I'm sorry I took his keys....can't kill an innocent little boy with such a nice demeanor, now can you Lostie lady"haha -
I literally spit out my beer at that. Brava.
Cue manliner! We need some Alpert to get us to next week and story reveals, STAT! -
You guys are having an interesting discussion regarding how to do a series finale. My father told me one time that while THE FUGITIVE was very successful in its original network run, it was a flop in syndication because everyone already knew how it ended. I think shows that make you THINK should go on making you think even after they're over. Would THE PRISONER be a better show if Number 1 turned out to be some evil guy behind a desk? Would TWIN PEAKS be a better show if Agent Cooper and Annie drove off into the sunset smiling? Would the X-FILES be a better show if Mulder and Scully exposed all the conspiracies, got a medal from the President and caused the aliens to go invade some other planet? And THE SOPRANOS ending made perfect sense to anyone who knows anything about the Mafia. You live your life from day to day, knowing full well you could die or go to jail for the things you've done. That neither happens to Tony Soprano when either or both of them could happen is precisely the point. We get to decide for ourselves if that's his last day or just another day in the saga. However they decide to end LOST will hopefully just send us back to watch it all over again. I don't need everything wrapped up in a bow. DENOUEMENTS FOR DUMMIES? People who want those kind of endings shouldn't be watching a show like LOST (or BSG or the others I've mentioned) in the first place. When you know how all the Tricks work, you lose the Magic.
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i just wish that the response to "Why would you leave her there?" was "Lady, some crazy fucked up bullshit was going on, that dictated only 6 of us could leave, so...."
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....we left her there because SHE'S FUCKING DEAD. Or at least lost in the woods, appearing very spookily in a "Black Lodge" sorta Cabin
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Survivor Guilt
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to FUCKING EXPLODE! Get out!!!!
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ZOMBIE!!!!
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There it is!
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hitting the same two notes over and over again....trying to make it tense.....really taxing the bow-men....
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And the verdict is ..guilty. So he is already dead, so he will be..deader.
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does that mean he's like the little boy in Pet Semetary?
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where are you guys?
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Which is it? Or all of the above..
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it's like the improvising writers realized ben should have recognized sayid (just like we did) so they conveniently had alpert and the temple be the cause of ben 'forgetting everything and being one of us forever' and they stressed the fact ben would forget.
lazy, lazy writing. like trying to wipe an ass several seasons after you've taken a shit. none of the 'others' or alpert have amnesia. they all know who they are. -
I don't really have any real basis for this hypothesis other than, and help me out with this.... have Richard and the Smoke Monster ever appeared on screen at the same time? Think about it..
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Wow, I certainly didn't see that one coming. Along with Sayid, 3 castaways created a monster. Though he won't remember Sayid. I feel like that's kinda a copout, but it throws out the theory that Ben knows so much about everyone because he grew up around them. But next week's trailer-- Present day Ben steals Alex away?!? Insane!
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and I still wont be able to tell you what he did to Ben
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Very possible on the Zombie Ben front (hah! collect them all! Zombie Ben, Li'l Ben, Combat Damage Ben, 'Henry Gale' Ben w/Smiley-Face Balloon! There's a fortune in merchandising to me made), but I think Ben will officially be considered an 'Other', or Hostile, or Atlantean/Magical Ancient Egyptian/whatevah. Unless they're ALL technically zombies? Maybe this is what happened to Claire? I'd say Christian and Locke as well, but Christian popped up right after the plane crash and 'current Locke' hasn't even been to the main island yet.
How much you wanna' bet that Beard-O Assisstant Other guy at the end there was named Tom. Friendly, that is.
HEY! Locke, ol' buddy ol' pal. Missed ya', Mr. Quinn. I really wanted his last line this episode to be something along the lines of, "You and I are going to have a little chat." WANT NEXT WEEK NOW!
And can I just say, I think Evangeline Lily gave an amazing performance this episode. I just wish I liked the character of Kate, like...at all. Ah well. -
That's my guess. He moved out of the Temple for a more comfortable environment,
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Stargate. srsly.
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Apr 01, 2009 9:17:12 PM CDT
SO, bets on Jacob being introduced before the end of the season.
by fleckdog
I put the percentage as high. As high priest of the Atlantean Egyptian Zombie Cult of Smokey Temple.
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"Excuse me. I need to borrow that pillow for a sec."
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The only Other we know for a fact has her memories from the time before she became an Other is Juliet, and she's a special case anyway. Aside from her, Ben (and I suppose little baby Ethan) we know nothing about the pre-Other past of any Others.
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I love Kate Austin...again. There. I said it....and NO! I'm NOT crying!!...I just...I just have a lil something in my eye!
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Until her meeting with Claire's mom. I thought her acting in that scene and her farewell to Aaron were extremely well done and heartfelt. And her reasons for going back to the Island? SO glad it wasn't for Sawyer. Her scenes with him at the pylons and at the creek were very well done do. I'm glad it seems the love triangle is over. Sawyer has moved on.
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take off your glasses while you say that, it gives it a certain...something.heheh
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he was telling the truth. From a certain point of view.
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Apr 01, 2009 9:21:13 PM CDT
IT PUTS BEN LINUS IN THE TEMPLE OR ELSE IT GETS THE EYELINER AGA
by ryanmurray
So say we all.
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And so was Locke. So when do we learn about Christian Shepherd's relationship to the Others?
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damn cutoff.
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or down the well you go.
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because that's what I do... Anywho, I didn't like the little tidbit where the Other guy was talking about other Others like Richard needs to ask them for permission. It means Richard's not even vice-Jacob. I don't want Richard to wind up being a goddamn secretary or something.
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Kee-rect. Richard was obviously an 'Other' by the '50s. Who says he doesn't remember anything from before he was an 'Other'? And another thought...if Ben is coming back to the island to be 'judged' for 'breaking the rules', does that mean Widmore will have to face the same 'smokey' prosecutor? And, PS, Widmore and Elle are STILL on the island as of '77? Hmm. WERY interesting...
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Apr 01, 2009 9:23:52 PM CDT
Kate's motivations for saying widdle Benny's life still seem unc
by axel fff
or nonexistent. This episode is the first where I really felt like the writers were lazy about answering questions. If they're going to be lazy about how they answer the damn questions, don't answer them at all.
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that should be "saving" not saying and "unconvincing" not unc. lousy 90's discussion board.
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Alpert and Smokey aren't the same cuz Alpert bragged that the sonic fence couldn't stop him while the monster IS stopped by the fence.
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That's what he's always been. I don't mean to pull out the 'Lindeloff and Cuse said it' card again, but in commentaries they describe him as a Panchen Lama, the guy who chooses the next Dali Lama. He's the man behind the power, putting in control who he thinks will work best...possibly for his own purposes. He might end up being a secretary, but he's a secretary with his hand up the president's ass like a puppet.
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In that supermarket scene. Totally shagadelic. Even her eyes looked better somehow.
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Seeing as none of us have seen what is going to happen to Ben means we probably shouldn't jump to any conclusions as to why, or why not, he has amnesia and other people don't. That's impatience. Also, when emphasizing lazy writing done by others, it would be wise to try to write properly punctuated sentences along with capitalizing the first letter of every sentence as well as proper nouns. And it's not called "lazy writing" if they take weeks or months to flesh out a single episode and have it tie into past ones while sometimes spelling things out in gigantic letters. Making it easy to read, so to speak.
And, dude (dudette?). If you're going to let something like this ruin an episode or season for you, then you didn't have too much invested in the show in the first place. Take a deep breath. Exhale. Wait until the whole show has run its course, and then we'll complain. How about we all just enjoy the ride, hmm? I don't think, at the very least, anyone in here can say that Lost is a bad show. It's got problems, but last time I checked, so does everyone.
Oh, and, gigantic spoiler, IT'S A FRIGGIN' TV SHOW!!!! -
Man, the talk in the show about time travel was almost exactly repeating what's been getting said here for weeks.
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but isn't that dude like second most important? Richard is too sexy to be way down the totem pole.
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He's no Panchen Lama, he's a Dick Cheney. Ha, put me on the Daily Show staff.
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I still don't get it. But I don't care anymore. I'm not paying attention to it, or Juliet/Sawyer. I'm just concentrating on the pretty from now on. That's best for all of us.
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We find out Ben is dead too, as is Claire. And Dead Locke leads the army of deadites including Christian, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Claire, and the entire DI against the forces of evil trying to take over the Island!
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is vice president. I'd have no problem with that. That's what I thought he was. It's that they started mentioning all these other people like they were Richard's superiors. That bothers me.
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believe in determinism 2. The whole ep was about her leaving Aaron behind so I can see the whole motherly instincts/guilt kicking in 3. She met Roger and he seemed like a sympathetic character...Although if I were her I still would have let the little bastard die
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I was thinking that tonight meant this season is zombie season.
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I thought that conversation implied as much. Didn't Alpert say something like, "I don't need to wait for Charles' (Widmore, I'd assume) permission". All the other Others (man, I've been waiting to write that phrase) seem to go on the presumption that they should follow the 'leader's' rules, but they know who's really in charge. Hells yeah, Richard's important. Just not on paper.
Oooh, and fleckdog...can I be a high preist of the Atlantean Egyptian Zombie Cult of Smokey Temple? I'm still out of work; that's be KILLER on a resume'. -
In Season 4. Theyve been onscreen at the same time. Duh.
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Well, no worse than any other theories
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Goddamn no edits.
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It is a prerequisite, plus you need to know how to light a kerosene lamp in a cabin, give a creepy eye stare through a window, and read atlantean hyroglyphics which give instructions about secret doors into temples, and smokey cages and whatnot.
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Hell, I already do all of that (except for the manliner) in everday life.
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I was thinking Kate/Roger was either another nod to how she likes guys like her dad or that Roger knows her from sometime. Which could be anytime I guess I dunno. *focuses on Jack's lack of chest hair*
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He was "born again" like all the castaways, but the Island has the power to heal. He was probably just dying, not dead, when Smokey/Jacob got ahold of him.
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theyre alive! alive!
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He broke the rules (killing Penny?) LONG after he killed Locke and planned to go back to the Island.
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is the prefereed nomenclature, I think. PC, people; these Zombies have FEELINGS...about eating brains.
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Just how old are Penny and Faraday supposed to be? Were they going on and off Island all the time? How the heck did Widdy build his fortune already? And where does Mittleos fit into this equation...
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That's an old joke. Next season is the Zombie Season.
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wait...there is too much...let me sum up.
Jack came back for HIMSELF...although he does NOT know why...Sounds like Locke circa Season 1.
Kate came back for CLAIRE...Thank God somebody else wants to see her again! Creepy look-a-like Claire just won't do!
Sayid came back to...KILL BEN? I don't think so, Jarrah...Methinks the island has other plans for you.
Sun came back for JIN...well, sort of...She does want to get him back...but the reality is...she there to get them ALL back to 2007.
Lapidus came back...cuz...we'll somebody's gotta fly the goddamn plane! Provided Locke doesn't blow it up like he did the sub!
Speaking of which...Locke came back to lead THE OTHERS? Hmmmm...I see trouble in the future for an eyeliner equipped dude's. Will 'the immortal one' perish? Stay tuned...
Hurley came back...to EAT? So glad the big guy was checking his fingers to see if he was disappearing. Glad Miles was there to set him straight...but...isn't that really Faraday's job? Where IS Desmond's constant?
I LOVED tonight's LOST, folks.
JACK: I did it for you, Kate.
SAWYER: I did it for HER, Freckles.
So the love quadrangle's all sorted out...I guess. Until...it becomes a TRIANGLE again.
GOD DAMN YOU LINDELOFF AND CUSE! I WANT MY VINCENT BACK!
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What about midget zombies who illegally crossed the border into craphole island looking for work? what do we call them?
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Take Ben to who? And he didn't care what Charles said?
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commiepinko, I think you completely covered Kate's motivations this episode; I am in agreeance.
D.Vader, I agree w/you about Ben not being necessarily dead (but really, how else can we have 'Fun with Zombies'?), but him killing Locke didn't necessarily mean he planned on going back to the island. A poster last week suggested that perhaps whatever Island Voodoo that brought Locke back to life couldn't happen if he killed himself; maybe Ben was trying to help? Yeah, far-fetched, I know, and Ben seemed to be plotting from that moment on. Just a thought... -
Unless they do another birthday mess up (like Charlotte) she has to have been born, at the latest,by late 70's.
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You don't find that combination of cheekbones and biceps twice.
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Wrong show dude. Garbonzia..
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Meaning he is NO damn secretary. Charles may be the leader but Alpert is above the law or behind the power or something.
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Too bad its gone..
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Who did he say to take Ben to?
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Thanks.
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As in Lil Miss Hawking
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that all this time Richard has been top dog to us. Now suddenly they introduced Widmore as his superior and I think that guy also mentioned Ellie, meaning Faraday's mom. So I'm just saying it's one of those things writers do when they make you think it goes Jacob, Richard, Ben. But then they start sticking other people in and you're like 'what the hell?' In fact there was a time when we thought Ben was top dog. So now he's like, what, 5th?
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Btw, how are you?
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There's no cure for that.
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and missed the same piece of dialogue. :) Thanks for the answer Cheif
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Weird to see an ending like this to such a short-lived show.
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Heh.
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Nope. That didn't work.
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How you doin?
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He said take Li'l Ben to ELLIE! As in MS. HAWKING! Did I mis-hear that?
US Life on Mars any good? US of Tara is over, so I was figuring I'd go ahead and watch it. -
Great freaking ending
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LOM. Seriously?
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Is that a fucked up STUPID way to end "Life on Mars" or what? I hope the transmission to Britain got disrupted. They'll be chuckling so hard, they'll drop the dick of their schoolmate out of their mouth.
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You were asking about Jacob.... I've been slightly spoiled about this season. Go to pa's room 23 and check it out.
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At least they kept their "he's not in a coma" promise.
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Ellie = Eloise?
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He just took him and ignored Kate when she asked where he was taking him. When he picked up Ben, the other Other spoke up saying "What would Ellie think? And Charles?" Or something like "They're not gonna like this," to which Alpert responded "I don't answer to Charles." But he never gave any indication of whom he was taking Ben to. My money is on Jacob.
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I'm not looking forward to the Temple stuff. I don't know why - it's just ... too creepy!
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Apr 01, 2009 10:01:24 PM CDT
I try to keep away from major LOST spoilers - its too much fun t
by fleckdog
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I'm not sure whether I liked it or not but I was NOT expecting that ending! I'm still going to miss it, epecially the acting and the music.
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Anyone got a quick recap of the series finale? I'll rent the show on DVD eventually, but just curious how they finished it off. Did he get back?
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Jacob= Others God Ben/Charles= High priest that talks to Jacob and relates his word Richard= Higher priest, immortal, who knows much (sometimes more) than High Priests, and leads in times when a leader is absent. Is responsible for finding said leader.
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Dan's Mommy...and quite a looker in 1977.
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He woke up on a spaceship landing on Mars in 2035, and everyone in the police force was in a cryosleep, and he had glitches in his "neurostim chip"
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I think there's some confusion there.
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Just accidentally flipped over and caught the end of US LoM! Now...don't feel a need to watch the show. Hurm.
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Harvey Keitel was really his dad. Gretchen Mol, Michael Imperioli were fellow US astronauts...
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Every week too.
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Sorry...damn time travel!
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She was in the credits, but I didn't see her in that episode, unless it was really fast. Maybe it was a clever ruse, or they filmed an alternate ending and didn't use it?
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Dan could have been born on the Island also.
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Jack...
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Supernatural has a great soundtrack too.
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That's how I thought it was. But if Richard was a higher priest than Charles then would that dude give him crap about asking Charles (and I swear he said Ellie) like he needed permission? I'm going to rewatch it in a sec.
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That doesn't make ... sense. Why was he going to Mars?
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Not quite as much as last week's (how can I, with that fantastic drugged Sayid scene?), but still more than two weeks ago. Completely DIED during the Miles/Hurley arguement. Any predictions for next week?
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"Sorry Mom, I'd love to stay but I kept a promise to my imaginary friends, so I'll just jump off the roof."
(I know, Ashes to Ashes makes it more complicated than that.) -
He requested to be a cop for his dream, and the chip got messed up. Honest injun.
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...and John Locke was the most interesting character in Season 1. You following my pattern here?
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I miss those guys! Are we going to see them next week, or soon? I'm still not accepting that Miles is so complacent on the island, gladly working for "boss" Sawyer. Why did he ask Hurley to shoot him? His time travel theories wouldn't hold up, would they?
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for a lets change all the rules to really screw with your head episode...
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Cheif, we have new Lost episodes until when? Do you know what the plan is. Any more skipped weeks?
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What a waste of a terrific, hot actress. :(
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Same reason he didn't interfere with some of Ben's finer work in the earlier seasons - once a leader for the Others is in place, Richard problem doesn't do much to override their decisions.
Does he have veto power? It appears that way. -
I'm sure going to miss this show. Crappy ending though. It seems like they just threw it together. I thought it was the best show on this year.
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And one of Obama's daughters is president (I was hoping it was still Barack as a disembodied head a la Futurama)
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but I liked him much better when he was crazy and trying to fix everything. If this is supposed to be a better version, pffft. Because the turn Jack's character has taken is one of a cult member. The kind that when they drink the Kool-Aid, no one from their past can believe it because he used to be so strong and in control. I'd hate to think the message of this show is going to be to be a follower instead of a leader.
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So was he a cop originally in 2008, or was all that imaginary as well? I know, back to Lost, just curious how they wrapped it up. Should have recorded it. Is it on abc.com? I guess we're seeing Smokey again next week on Lost, yes?
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He said Ellie first, like "What would Ellie think? And Charles?" Perhaps Charles and Ellie shared power bc they were a couple (making Faraday and Penny siblings perhaps?). I think Richard's power comes from being so old and from knowing so much. He has the power to pick the leader who wields more power. Therefore making him quite powerful in his power, right?
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Judge Smokey.
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If Hurley HAD shot Miles...There was a surgeon in the shower. What else is Miles SUPPOSE to do? He can't leave the island...at least he's on the security team...not a stupid ass workman...He's probably up to his ears in hot 70's chicks!
What does Miles have to go back to in the outside world? In 1977? Pa said we were soon to get a big Miles story arc...I guess we'll find out then! -
And barfy, I think it's straight thru until May 13th for the finale, except for perhaps a clip show in the end of April, giving us a 2 hour finale on Wednesday the 13th.
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Because Charles IS the leader, just as Ben was the leader and Richard did what Ben wanted. It seemed unorthodox to the Other to bring in one of the DI's kids without running it by the "leaders" first. Alpert basically said "Fuck 'em," because he knew Ben was special, having run into him 4 years previous. He musta know he was supposed to be an Island leader and was important.
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Apr 01, 2009 10:15:38 PM CDT
Hurley and Miles conversation ripped from our talkback!
by dapper swindler
Don't make me point out which one of you were the Hurleys
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I think its fine for him to be passive now, bc he knows his destiny awaits, and that destiny will force him to be a leader and he'll accept it for once.
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Jacob, Charles, Ellie, Richard...and I don't see what's to stop them from coming up with like 10 more people who are more powerful than him. *grumbles*
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Dan and Penny. Charles being Dan's dad would help explain the funding of his research. Of course so could a lot of other things.
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I think Charles WAS their leader, and that Ben being 'inducted' (or whatever the hell Alpert's gonna' do to li'l Ben in that temple and halfway through this sentance I realized how creepy it would sound) kicked Widmore out. And maybe, as I think some people have suggested, what if Widmore is Farraday's dad? What if Widmore AND Ellie are the 'chosen couple' as it were, and therefore 'above' Richard?
Also, Farrady wasn't born on the island; he'd never even BEEN to the island, since he was the ONLY Lostie not to get a nosebleed during the time-jumps. Well, and Jin. But he's Aisan and, as Cherry's pointed out, has impecible pecs. (Wordplay!) Either that, or he's a natural-born 'Other' (we of the Atlantean Egyptian Zombie Cult of Smokey Temple) and isn't effected. But then he shouldn't have jumped like Richard. Brain...hurts...
Oh, and midget zombies, Cherry? They'd be Undead Men From Another Place, or Kevin J. Anderson-Americans. *said backwards* E-Lec-Tri-Ci-Tee! (PS: If that didn't make any sense, I'm either drunk or you should watch Twin Peaks; Worth it!) -
But knowing how crafty Miles is, perhaps he'd go back and con people / win bets / make money like the big lunkhead Biff from Back to the Future did in BTTF2. I don't know - placed in an extreme situation, people try to make the best of it, I suppose.
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*shrug*
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Penny's mother?
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But the program screwed up and made him a cop in 1973 but with the memories of his original 2008 cop programming.
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Faraday's Dad? Signs are pointing to yes on both fronts, barfy!
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Widmore and Eloise Hawkings.
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You're 3 points up on my bracket.
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I dug your rap.
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Forget Jacob. Jacob's the leader but for all intents and purposes, he's God and hands-off. That leaves the leader of the Others and Richard standing behind him. When there is no leader, or when the leader can't lead (like when Widmore was 17- too young? One has to be patient...), Richard is in control. In S4 Ben told Hurley the decision to kill the DI was not his, but their (the Others') "leader's". But perhaps he meant it as plural- "... their leaders'". Maybe Ellie and Widmore share power, making them still top dog and Richard still 2nd in command (when you make Jacob an entity the Others know of but have no proof of, only faith in).
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Do what now?? At CBS?
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I think I'm all up to speed on the LOM finale now. Reminds me some of the movie Vanilla Sky, with Tom Cruise. HATED that film. They didn't play fair with the rules in that movie. LOM was a cool cop show with great costuming and an awesome soundtrack. Sorry it's gone - a fitting show to follow Lost. Better than Eli Stone!
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Somehow going further back in time to the Island at the end?
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Jack's suddenly a 'follower'? If so...who is he 'following'? He basically told Sawyer to stick it tonight...certainly not following him!
Jack is EXACTLY like Locke from Season 1. When Locke stood up on that island...he KNEW he was in a special place...Jack did not. Locke knew he was 'destined' to DO something on the island...Jack did not.
As Jack said tonight..."All I did was STOP the island from doing what it wanted to do".
THIS time is different. Jack now 'believes' in the island...that they're "ALL HERE FOR A REASON"...a line Locke spit in Season 1.
Jack isn't 'following ANYONE'...He's waiting for the island to tell him what to do. And if Locke was there to see it...he'd be laughing his ass off.
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I take a minute to post and everybody already made my points! Kudos, y'all. Man, I love these talkbacks. Makes my shitty life a little brighter knowing there are others out there as obsessed with a TV show as I am. :)
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Look 6 posts up from your last post!
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Ah well, "Great minds," eh? How ya doing E?
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Lol!!
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Except for the cool empty Times Square scene that had the Kubrick-esque continuous shot.
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while Jack was taking a shower;what was that about?Is she really upset(and looking really hot) because Jack didn't help her with young Ben?Or,because she knows Sawyer and Kate are going to get back together so that leaves Jack for her.
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Foiled AGAIN!
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On yahoo
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You're slow on the posting tonight!
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Heheh.
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1. Wasn't Clair's mom in a deep coma (from the goth Clair flashback)? Were we ever told or shown how she came out of that coma?
2. Do you think the show answered Hurley's question about Ben not remembering Sayid, but Richard saying "he will forget this ever happened"? -
That wacky Doc.
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I am in LOVE with your Locke/Jack parallel. Makes me want to investigate the 'mirroring' idea of the seasons reflecting each other. Shit, I'm gonna' be stuck thinking about that and comparing everything all night, aren't I?
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I was expecting a little tension there too. Juliet and Jack getting back together? Naw. Sawyer sounds pretty committed to Juliet in 1977. So she'll probably die. So why did Kate hook up with Jack after dropping off Aaron with Grandma? Just wanted to be loved, forget about what she did? I don't think she was trying to make a baby, as others have suggested.
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Just read it on a blog....he had Season 6 all done and Star Trek XII notes and other stuff on his laptop and got hit by the Conficker viurs and he got wicked pissed and walked off and quit...so now season 6 might not even happen......
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I forgot which bracket was which. So you're on there too?! Ya know I never put 2 and 2 together and figured you were "Barfy" on there. Damnit. Makes sense =). GO HEELS!
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I'm going back and forth between catching up and trying to stay with the pace =).
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I think the show did answer Hurley's question, for sure, about the Sayid memories. I forget how they resolved Claire's mom's coma, from the auto accident. Anyone? And Vader, I thought the same thing during the shower scene. Juliette's eyes, and Jack putting the shirt on while wet!
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not Sawyer. I know I say weird stuff sometimes, but sometimes people read stuff into my posts that I didn't say. I didn't say anything about him following a person. Remember Jack and Sawyer and the "that's why the Sox will never win the series" conversation? Well if Jack now believes in the island that old Jack, make-your-own-destiny Jack, is gone. Which, imo, makes him a follower. A Kool-Aid drinker. An ex-Jack.
But just for shits and giggles, let's all think about the amazing things Locke did when he was following the island. *thinks* *thinks harder* *burps* Nope can't come up with anything but a lot of fuck-ups. -
I didn't bite on that!
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She took Aaron to (in one way- I don't buy it being the only reason) make up for her broken heart bc of Sawyer leaving. I imagine its the same way with Aaron. Broken heart mended by jumping into the arms of another man.
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May your brackets all get busted, Vader and Barfy! Go MSU! It's destiny for the Spartans, the city of Detroit, and the state of Michigan!
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Although...I think THIS season is suppose to be mirroring Season 2...Jack still has to find his 'hatch' (figuratively speaking).
BigE...Kate NEEDED Jack...she just gave up the thing she THOUGHT she needed. So...at that moment...she needed Jacky Boy. And No...she wasn't TRYING to get knocked up...But I think she's gonna be puking in the am here pretty soon. -
He helped Charlie kick his drug habit, found a lost Vincent, strengthened Michael's relationship with Walt, guided Jack into a leadership position... that's off the top of my head.
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this is from the post i read...
In a bizarre series of events, not unlike many of the plot-lines in the veteran island mystery drama, LOST co-creator, executive producer, showrunner and writer, Damon Lindelof, has abruptly broken all ties with ABC and quit the show, just a few weeks before the hit series' fifth season finale. The unexpected departure has left ABC executives and LOST producers scrambling to quiet concerns over the series future
Reports from Hawaii indicate Lindelof went into a frustrated rage on the set early this morning after the Conficker Worm severely corrupted his laptop. Doogie Knarp, a miniature model builder working on the LOST set, reported hearing Lindelof scream at a cowering grip, "Don't you get it? It's gone! All of it! There is no backup! We got conf*ckered! I can't take this anymore, it's just like Y2K!" Doogie described what happened next as "unbelievable". "He just snapped. He had this crazy look in his eyes. He took his laptop and threw it on the ground, then jumped in one of the prop-buses and repeatedly drove over the computer - back and forth. After that, he picked it up and threw it into the ocean. All the time, with this odd laugh and those eyes. Then, he just walked away, saying that he quit."
Tan Leer, a local non-union seamstress, was sewing a patch onto a jumpsuit when she heard the commotion. "I was just finishing up the Dog Catcher uniform, when I heard all this yelling outside. At first, I thought it was Carlton and Damon arguing about another continuity error, but then I realized there was none of Carlton's usual high-pitched crying - so I went to see what was going on." Tan found Lindelof bashing a script supervisor repeatedly in the head with a rolled up screenplay, and immediately tried to pull him away. According to Tan, Lindelof shoved her back, and then turned his fury on her, "I was scared. He looked crazy, and I knew he had some Parker Jotters in his pocket. You could really hurt someone with one of those!" But instead of physically attacking her, Tan says Lindelof broke down and started to weep uncontrollably, "You don't get it, do you? I lost everything. Season six, gone. Dark Towers, gone. All my notes for Star Trek XIII, gone. The scripts for my upcoming 12 issue miniseries Ultimate Gambit vs. Mole Man, gone. Nash Bridges - The Motion Picture screenplay, gone. It's all gone, all of it. Years worth of work, gone. I'm finished!"
Two hours later, Lindelof allegedly called into a morning radio program on WFTW hosted by Chet Waller. "We were talking about the rumors, about Lindelof... you know, having fun - and all the sudden, he calls in", Chet described the occurrence. Recordings of the program feature what appears to be a very subdued Lindelof making a brief statement about his actions earlier in the morning. "I just want to say, I'm sorry for what happened this morning. I lost my cool, and that isn't acceptable. I've just been under a lot of pressure lately, not that that is any excuse. Now that I've had time to think about things, though, I realize this is all for the best. I just don't need that kind of stress in my life. And, to be honest, we didn't know what the hell we were doing. I mean, Charlotte's on the island five years before she is born. The runway was built for the plane to land on, but they didn't know to build it until someone from the plane went back in time and told them. It's all chicken and egg. We were just making it up as we went along, and I have no clue how we were going to reach a logical, rational ending next year. I think this whole Conficker thing just helped me realize I don't need all this. Someone else can figure it out. I really just need to simplify my life right now." When asked if he would be returning to LOST, Lindelof replied, "Never. Never, never, never. I left the island, and I'm never going back!"
I really hope that it is an april fools joke....i really do!!!!! but if it's true....we're all screwed -
And the Heels meet them, history is on our side. Lest we forget the game in december in which the Heel and Spartans met in the same area and who came out on top then...
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Jack, Sun, Sayid, Kate, even Locke and Ben, we know why they returned to the island. Why did Hurley? Charlie told him to, but he wanted nothing to do with Ben, or anything Ben suggested, correct? So are we going to get another Hurley ep here soon?
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Saw you guys take down the men of Troy and that was cool. (Bruin here.) That's all you get. Tar Heels all the way or else my bracket goes down down down to pieces.
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have explained how/when she woke up from the coma. But in the first Claire ep (season 1) she says something about telling her mom about being pregnant (which I originally thought was a continuity error when I saw the coma episode), which means she was already out of the coma before Claire left the island. I think.
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Plus MSU was without their big guy that game.
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Yeah, if someone has the answer, please post, but I don't remember it being resolved. They made a big deal in that episode about how it was the kind of coma you don't come out of, so I don't think they would just have her come back without explanation.
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Because that would mean Goran Suton's knee would magically heal itself before the big game... And right now that's not looking too likely. I'd be out looking for a vine-covered temple or wooden cabin right about now if I was MSU, E =).
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That is an EPIC April Fools Joke. Almost had me 'till they quoted him as saying he had an "upcoming 12 issue miniseries Ultimate Gambit vs. Mole Man" comic. Hah!
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Per Lostpedia
Claire decided that she could not go through with it, and Carole was kept alive for many years. She was still in the coma when Claire became pregnant and boarded Oceanic Flight 815. ("Par Avion")Carole revived from her coma sometime after the crash.
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Was still in a coma when Claire jumped onto 815. The line commipinko refers to is attributed to Claire's boyfriend. Claire said her mom would disown her if she found out she was pregnant (at the time she was still in a coma). Her boyfriend replied "She practically has already," referring to either the poor relationship between the two of them, or making a bad joke regarding the coma.
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I can appreciate religion, but too much faith can be scary. By the way screw you guys GO UCONN!
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I think MSU will win that one. Sorry, pinko.
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It's Michigan - you can throw a rock and hit a wooden cabin! MSU has their magic - Magic Johnson! They will be led by Travis WALTon - their boy with special powers - to a championship!
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boyfriend said it. Or that Darlton changed it after the fact?
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So did Claire's mum even know she was pregnant? I'm sure she would have found out after she revived? She looks pretty good for someone that's been comatose so recently!
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he killed Boone, blew up the Flame, blew up the sub, turned the donkey wheel the wrong way, got the Oceanic 6 to come back for no reason, trusted Ben so he could kill him, made Sawyer kill his dad, loads of things.
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Locke DID nothing but fuck up?...It would appear that way, wouldn't...Got Boone killed ('a sacrifice the island demanded')...Found a weird hatch...was tested by entering the numbers...fucked up the hatch (But the end result? Locke MADE Desmond 'special')...
What I'm saying is...while Jack was doing everything in his power to keep the island from doing it's will...Locke was always there to try and help it do the things it NEEDED to do.
He didn't help with the raft cuz he knew they weren't suppose to LEAVE. He blew up a sub...because they weren't suppose to LEAVE! He threw a knife in Naomi's back...cuz they weren't suppose to leave!
And how did the island REWARD Locke for doing its bidding?
Nothing. Just one embarrassing kick in the crotch after the next. Couldn't kill his father...had to get Sawyer to do it. Got shot in the back and landed in a Purge Pit. Gee...thanks island! It even led him back to LA...at the end of a noose.
All by the island's design.
Locke was correct in Season 1...he WAS 'destined' to do 'GREAT THINGS' on the island...He WILL be rewarded by the island...
In 2007...NOT 2004. -
Apr 01, 2009 10:50:50 PM CDT
So who has Richard met in 77 that he has also interacted at with
by gordon bombay
Because I think the writere were making it clear that Ben would remember Sayid if not for "forgetting the whole thing".
He meets Locke in the 50's. But we know he always recognized him. Who else does he encounter in the 50's? He so far has encountered at least Sawyer and Kate in the 77, you have to assume he was around when they were trapped in the cages season 3. So that means he recognized them then from the 70's, wouldn't he have been pretty interested in them? Getting confusing... -
I remember that. He said "She (your mom) practically has (disowned you) already."
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May the power of Bale be with you!
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He made the deal to let them off the Island in exchange for helping them save Ben from Keamy and his men. But did he remember them from one random encounter with DI pple in 1977? Doubtful. That man has met a LOT of people in his very long lifetime.
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I'm saying Darlton's message looks to be a Christian don't-rock-the-boat, you'll only be healed by faith kinda message. I think many of us don't dig that. We thought it was science. Jack was our man of science. They're turning him into a man of faith. That sucks, imo.
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Does Richard Alpert really seems like someone who forgets a face. Kate? MAYBE. Sawyer, no way, with multiple meetings, especially the first one on the bench. All I'm saying is, the writers better not start playing the "it was one random meeting 30 years ago, he just forgot" all the time.
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Haven't scoured the talkback but has anyone mentioned Kate singing "Catch a falling star?" This was the song Claire wanted the adoptive parents to sing to Aaron. As far as Carole's coma she says in "Theres no place like home" That she was still in the hospital when Christian came to visit Claire. That's all the info we've really gotten about it from her.
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But for my memory, Alpert never came across Sawyer when he was in the cages. Then again, I think the Temple will make Ben forget he was shot and the trauma around it, but I'm sure he and Alpert will definitely remember Sawyer as LaFleur.
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EVERYONE will have a bad case of amnesia.
Cherry...YOU better start drinkin' the 'cult Kool-Aid'...or LOST is gonna start turning into a show up don't like very much. ;) -
Or show up...either way.
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WOW. Impressive. Most impressive.
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it already is... *sobs*
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Just like Claire did! Goes to show ya...even if ya sing the same song as mom...the turnip head has Claire's face/hair imprinted in it's mind. Kate realized he'll NEVER really be 'hers'.
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Apr 01, 2009 11:11:13 PM CDT
Yeah, it's those little things that make dig the show
by gwarwilleatyou
that and the Miles Hurley banter. Great considering they wrote this a couple months ago.
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Um...anyone else think there might be some collateral fall out from Kate telling Cassidy & Claire's mum about "the lie"?
Who is to say that Claire's mom won't have a DNA test done on lil Aaron...PROVE he's Claire's kid...and DEMAND answers from Oceanic? And...it would appear that single mom Cassidy might want some of that Oceanic settlement money for her and her kid. "My baby's daddy...James Ford was on Flight 815...Now...give me some money...or I'll tell the whole world about your big fat lie!"
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I just am interested how many other people Alpert will meet while the Losties are still in the 70's.
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...but the ending was ok. Preview for next week rules! Should be a good one.
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Apr 01, 2009 11:19:08 PM CDT
If I were Richard Alpert, and I knew Sawyer was from the future.
by pizza the hut
...first thing I would be doing is asking Sawyer what happened in the future. No interest by Alpert apparently.
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If Ben isn't going to remember anything before he goes into that cave, then does he forget everything about Dharma? his mom? his mean dad? Annie?
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or if during season 3, alpert caught wind that sawyer was being held in a cage.
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So does that mean we'll see him turning the wheel in the season finale? Maybe that wheel turn gets the Black Rock on the island? You know they're going to show that sometime, why not the season finale?
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If during the Hurley/Miles time travel arguement, Miles had said:
"No, no, no, Lardo! It's NOT 'Back to the Future' time travel... It's '12 MONKEYS time travel!" -
I just took it to mean he would forget everything involving the whole shooting incident. But if that was the case, wouldnt he still remember meeting Sayid and bringing him sandwiches before breaking him out.
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Its really good.
Portia de Rossi is brilliant in this show. -
Soooo, that's why he hasn't done it yet.
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He just wont remember the shooting, is what I took from it. Of course he remembers Annie- he still has her birthday present from him. And of course he remembers his dad and the cruelty he suffered from him- "For as long as I can remember I've had to put up with you..." I think the Temple will just block out the traumatic event is all.
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Remember when Ben said he was born on the island? Well...we all know he WASN'T born on the island...he arrived there as a young boy.
I think lil Ben will be given a 'new' past by Richard when he recovers...and Alpert will HAVE to return him to his DI friends or 'risk' a war. But Ben will never 'really' be a DI member again...he'll go back to resenting his Dad, but for different reasons now...this will lead to his betrayal of the DI in '92...and the death of his father.
So...when Ben said "I was born on this island"...for the first time on LOST...he doesn't KNOW he's lying! -
he's a replicant?
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over the possibility of Ben's amnesia (or...Benesia, as I've just decided to call it) until next episode. I think we'll get to see what happens in that Temple (Nestor's credited next epi, right?). We'll find out then how much Ben does/doesn't remember.
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What's a replicant? Can I have one?
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on the island, did he not? Can't remember the specific episode.
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you are one, fain
This show seems to be getting more complicated. I mean it's almost over and there's all this math and stuff. I dunno. I kinda just wanna read how it turns out to get it over with. If someone had total finale spoilers, I'd read them right now. -
At least gimmie a hint...are they bigger than a breadbox? And why do you wanna' skip to the end? The journey's the fun part! ;)
And when did we start doing math? I don't mind; I think math's actually pretty fun! (Nerd, I know) Are you just talking about the confusedness of the whole time travel thing? I just didn't know any math had been applied to it (although, we've already got a Constant, and in three episodes we'll have a Variable, sooo...) -
Ben regularly lies to other people and his own followers about the fact that he wasn't born on the Island. Claiming that he unlike everyone else whom was brought to the Island by him, Ben himself was born there on the Island. ("The Man Behind the Curtain")
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Ben won't be a replicant...(emphasis on CANT)...he will just have a 'revised' island history, provided by Richard...his 'birth' there...he will tell Ben he's 'special'...he's destined to do "GREAT THINGS" on the island...but now he has to go back to his father and The Dharma Initiative...and wait for his chance to become the 'leader of the hostiles'...
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I know I know... Jack is the new Locke... I thought the most shocking part of tonights ep was the scene where Jack does nothing to save Ben... Every single time any one was in danger before Jack would go running full speed to save them... Now he's waiting for the island to give him a sign... To give him purpose... Its really cool to see how Jack has changed throughout the show... Even tho hes not doing much right now, I dont think hes ever been as interesting as he is now... But if Jack is the new Locke (and it seems like Sawyer is the new Jack), what does that make Locke???
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all the time and dates, and who's how old, and who could be their mom, and whatever this sort of resurrection business is with Ben. It's seeming kinda scattered. Like the cast. They've lost Des and Daniel. Locke's just appeared at the very end. It's like they've got so much going on that they can only concentrate on a few people at a time so other characters get lost for weeks, and it's getting messy I think. I mean I'm on here getting confused and asking you guys. But what about the people who just watch it and don't discuss with other fans? The ratings are going down.
But if you want to know about replicants, you're going to have to ask this man: http://tinyurl.com/cllpzx -
who had to think for a second to remember the whole "Cassidy" storyline... (Even with the recap in the beginning...)
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The Miles/Hurley discussion was fantastic. When he mentioned "Back to the Future" I shouted loudly and frightened the landlord's dog. Bloody. Brilliant. And I'm glad they've at least partially addressed the whole "why doesn't XXXX remember YYYY" issue, at least as it relates to Ben. But: if Ben doesn't remember anything up to this point, does that mean that something is going to happen to the Losties soon (before Ben gets back to Dharmaville, all Other-carnated)?Speaking of Other-carnation, raises a bunch of interesting questions. Do the Others in 2004 still practice the Temple Baptism, or has that been replaced with a brainwashing room of Dharma tech? Did all "outside" Others go through that (I'm thinking of Juliet in particular)? "What happens in the Temple?" just rose to the #2 question I want answered on this show.
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he gets healed.
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IF the reincarnating thing were to remove all your memories and Richard WERE to give Ben a new past, then that's probably what room 23 is for right? Giving you memories, like a replicant?
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Desmond : I GOTTA GO BACK!!!
Brutha... -
Yeah I just talked to a friend who is more of a "normal" viewer and he's getting confused. After this episode he asked me, "Is that it as far as jumping around in the past goes?" I feel bad for him because even I forgot about Kate's relationsip with Sawyer's girl.
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This is indeed a massive show with MANY different characters and plotlines, and not all of them can be included in every episode. But that's how it's ALWAYS been! Remember, all the way back to season 1, when three weeks would go by without a line from Jack or Kate, they'd just meld into the background? Or Locke would go slink off into the jungle for a couple episodes? The show is always bouncing around to different characters; but that was always something I liked about it. Don't like the Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle? Wait a week, weather might change. That might also be because I was raised in Missouri, though (PS: Go MSU!)
Des'll be back next week (unless Penny's in an episode w/o Des, ie: unlikely). They mentioned Daniel was not there, probably off in the real world or on the sub, which Juliet reiterated tonight would be gone another month at least; but, he should be back by 'The Variable', I'd assume. Don't like '70s Dharmaville? Wait a week. Weather might change. :D
Hey Trumpy! Other-carnated. Love it. Aaaaand stealing it. YOINK! -
and I totally dissed you on your question about LOST's Schedule...
I think we're coming up on a clip show/season recap April 22nd. I imagine the reason for this is an awards show or something stupid....but also to sttttrrreeetttcchhh out these 17 episodes so they make it well into the May Sweeps! -
just getting healed from the gunshot wound. now, he has a "debt" to richard or the island. therefore, he has to help the hostiles. whether he wants to or not now it seems. but, as we have seen he already has motivation on the "helping" them part lol.
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Could someone please give me props for the LINEAR time travel argument. EXACTLY like Miles said...
Or did I just imagine being right...I was so wound up in the Back to the Future reference...I may have been a little light-headed...Thx -
"You didn't like the old me, Kate." OHHHH!!! you got served you fickle bitch! I like the new Jack.
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So if Kate knew that she had Universal Blood type then why in season 1 when Boone was dying and Jack was looking for someone that shared Boone's blood type, but give his own blood since he was universal. Why didn't Kate pipe up and say I have Universal I can give blood. Instead she let the one surgen who could save Boone do it instead and almost pass out. I know that sometime in the episode she was helping Claire deliver, but not the whole time. Anyone remember the timeline of that episode in order to rpove that she did have a chance to speak up?
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Although..I did grow up in the middle of that S.E Hinton novel (Westie)..and was an extra in the movie..neither here nor there..
I sympathize with your perturbation over the over-arching religious elements of LOST..but in the end what difference..
Christian, Hindu, Dharmic, Islamic..Shinto..Science in the atheistic extreme, how ever the divine manifests in the human mind..it's all the same; great good and evil can be born from the exact same womb. It's all the same..No one knows where 'you've' been. The Kikuyu say 'Ngai', God lives on a shining mountain...and are there not infinite ways to climb a mountain? Every foothold and hand placed to rock is slightly different for those with the will or fate to dare seek the summit. Someone said or wrote.."When man (or woman) climbs the last mountain of knowledge, he (or she) will find God was waiting there all along." Maybe the Kikuyu
knew something..Maybe Oober-scientist Heisenberg knew something....meh, who knows.
In the immortal words of Dr. Harry Wolper: "..one of these days we'll look in to our microscope and find ourselves staring right into God's eyes, and the first one who blinks is going to lose his testicles."
just to say.. Kate haters..I thought Evangeline Lily brought her A-game. Fair play to Evie. Well done. -
Answer..Kate was off in the Jungle helping Claire birth Aaron..remem..one died, one was born..freaky yeah?
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I similarily went, "DAAAAAMN!" at that line. In a good way.
And yes! That universal blood donor thing made ME think of Boone as well. Ah...just another reason to not like Kate. Le sigh. -
But didn't Jack SEND Kate to help Claire?
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This man has saved everyone's life on that island at least twice each, he falls in love with Kate who doesn't return his love because ...he's too good for her? So, she fucks Swayer and only hooks up with Jack when they get off the island ...then breaks up with him. Jack falls for Juliet, and what does she do? She fucks Swayer too! Jack has been shitted on this whole series by practically every character on the show just because he's a good person. So, this season, particularly this episode, he FINALLY gets to think about himself. I almost stood up and appluaded when he finally told Kate off. "You didn't like me on the island either, Kate". Translation: "After everything I did for you, you still fucked the asshole that lied and endangered all of us several times you cold-hearted bitch!" But, of course, he gets chewed out by Juliet, the other chick who banged the asshole that lied and endangered them all, for not helping her, Swayer, and Kate basically MAKE Ben Linus into the crazy sadistic fuck he is. God, I hope they continue making Jack a prick. Seriously, just have him sitting around giving everyone the finger while everything falls apart. It would be so sweet. Those bastards deserve it.
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Hurley argued for the 'Back to the Future' time-travel logic. Miles argued for '12 Monkeys'. And I think they were implying that Miles was right.
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What did you think & favoate moments
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Do_No_Harm
I guess that your partly correct MacFaux She was off getting alcohol from Saywer at that moment when Jack was looking for blood type. On the way back she ran into Claire. -
"Hurley..I SWEAR TO GOD!..if you faint!?!"
Jack sent Kate to the Beach to raid Sawyer's stash for meds and Alcohol. On her way back she met up with Claire..Baby Time! Claire: "Don't Leave me!"..Kate sends Jin (who responded to Kate yelling for help)..to get Jack. HELLO, Msr. Irony! Jack sent Kate off before Boone told him his Blood type..A-. So Jack needs A- or O- ..Universal Donor..which by the way was..wait for it..also Jack's Blood type. CUT TO: Jack and Sarah playing Heart and Soul on the piano. wow.
The creator's (hee.funny in passing) of this boomble-dee-fook show are brilliant..you watch an old episode after a new episode after an old episode..The Aristocrats.
just awesome. (emphatic golf clap) -
Fair enough. :^) And I agree; the awesomeness of this show makes my head ache some times (again, in a good way). I was rewatching season 2 w/some friends who were watching for the first time and had to keep biting the inside of my lip to reference something...because every other event or line in most episodes either echo something coming or fits in perfectly with the meta-plot. Brilliant!
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Island time travel is LINEAR. Anything they try and do now will NOT effect the future.
A - Dharma arrives on the island
B - Losties arrive in the 70s
C - Dharma wiped out
D - Losties crash on the island
E - Ben jams the time wheel
F - Locke reunites with 70s Losties
My argument was that things that happen...and are connected to the island...are LINEAR...and NOT A-F.
ACDEBF is the way that the past, present and future will always be. Hurley is obviously going to put the numbers on the hatch at some point...hoping to warn himself of the danger...or to save Libby's life. He tries to send a message to himself in the future...and it obviously fails, because there is nothing they can do to change anything about ACDEBF.
The B comes before D in real time, but AFTER B in Lost time. That was the well received point I was making...which is why Russo had met Jinn for the FIRST time at Beach Camp...NOT at the temple. -
People hate heroes. They love the villains. That's why people suck. Even this show started out with Jack as the lead and kinda switched to Ben because the writers fell for him. You could say the same thing about Star Wars. It was about Luke but then they had to make the prequels about Vader in order to change the whole saga into Vader's story. I watch LOST while talking to a bunch of chicks online. And I'm the only one who likes Jack. They're all in love with Ben. They even started to hate Sayid last week. You'd think they'd have the good sense to like the better looking guys but no. People want the righteous to get abused. Sayid tries to kill a really evil guy and everyone hates him for it. So dumb. Jack doesn't want to save someone he knows is responsible for so many deaths and Jack is somehow evil. Really dumb.
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I like how this season they're revealing the new secrets a lot quicker than they have before. We still have the flashback structure, but we see why Sayid, Kate (and I assume we will with Hurley) got on that plane. Next week, we'll see what happened with Ben. I'm so glad that even though Juliet had a moment when she hears Kate and Jack were engaged, Sawyer makes it clear that he and Juliet aren't going anywhere. And Kate - my god, the scene with Claire's mother - she has never been that honest. Ever. Not only did she tell the truth about the situation, she spoke to the emotional truth ('I needed him') - something she never does. And I love that Hurley is the voice of the fans, as usual. Do you guys really think the writers put the line in about Ben and Sayid because they thought 'oops, we screwed up.' They know damn well people are saying that, so they're giving us a tease. With the Desmond and Daniel situation, they made it clear that people only remember stuff after it has been changed.
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here's your props....Now shut up before you confuse EVERYONE with that A-B-C shit! Lol!
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SPOILERS: gotta say, I did NOT like that ending. And I've been loving the show all season. For some reason, my wife loved it (saying she preferred that it was all an internal process and that he wasn't being controlled or manipulated by anyone). For me, it completely negated the very real story of Sam saving his own life, his childhood and relationship with his parents. The Sam and Annie that wake up on the spaceship - we don't know them, so why should we care? And making Keitel his Dad? Too much. Plus, I thought the poignancy of the space travel metaphors were lost by making it about actual space travel. A little TOO on the nose, if you ask me. It's almost as if a cheesy 70s cop show woke up and it was a cheesy 70s space show (like those Sat. morning shows with Star Trek and Lost in Space alums). Interesting side note - Tom Waits did not like this show (he read the script or something), which is why he did not give permission to use his song in the episode where they actually talk about it.
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I thought Alpert was carrying little Ben into Jacob's cabin...but reading the talkbacks it seems everyone says he carried him into the Temple...is it the Temple or Jacob's cabin?...it looked to me like the cabin although I did hear a strange roar when Alpert opened the door
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These episodes were written MONTHS ago...even if they royally DID screw up something...we wouldn't see the 'fix' for months.
If they could 'fix' errors in the show immediately, they would have corrected Charlotte's age quagmire. It's not like they are writing next week's episode while reading this talkback. -
That was the temple...where Smokie dwells. Not sure how you could mistake a stone structure for a wooden cabin.
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That cabin was built by Horace, probably after '77, since he mentions his wife and child in the dream conversation he has with Locke. I don't think the cabin existed in '77, and I'm pretty sure that was the Temple Alpert carried li'l Ben in to.
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'Life On Mars'. (British version was only 16 episodes for a REASON).
BTW...I think I typed this same exact sentence when ABC scrapped 'Invasion'. -
that episode was AMAZING. one of my new all time favorites. the scene with hurley and miles discussing time travel was great
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But just think...what if C came after A and C followed D...??
Answer in 10 minutes and it's the LAST time I will ever use "The Letters" (of doom...or something...) -
BEFORE they started all this time travel business! First...he just has to keep track of our 12 core Losties...then all their family members off island...then all The Others...THEN everyone goes back in frickin time!!!
Good God...If he wasn't a drinker before LOST...he is now! -
The Peoples hate heroes because heroes make the Peoples feel small, judged and insignificant. It is beyond our nature..The Peoples identify and appreciate villains, or rather, in this case, anti-heroes because they identify with the imperfection, they live for the baser nature of the better selfs..it is easier to hope and wish and pray the Great regress to their mean..than they rise to the example of the great..
What most of the Peoples skip by is that every journey a hero takes is impossible..in and of itself. impossible. It is that willingness to at least attempt to transcend the impossible that makes one a hero.
Jack was/is/shall be a hero..Look little one..Heroes..are not..just..super..it requires the Journey, Failure, Redemption, and Tears...especially tears. -
I just wanted to know if you at least looked for a second at my previous post...or just blew me off...or was the joke just too obvious? I know you've helped me a lot...but...
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But we know the temple no longer exists in our present. So maybe the incident is something like the Temple blowing up and that's why Smokey's on the run?
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I'm still missing something here...
LINEAR means straight line, from beginning to end. Point A, through B, C & D, to E. Right? So if...
A = Russo's boat wrecks
B = Russo pulls Jin outta' the water
C = Whatever the heck happened with Smokie and her crew, 2nd time Jin appears
D = Losties crash
E = Wheel gets pushed, sends Jin back to 'B'
Now, what I think you're trying to argue is that 'B' never happened, until 'E' happened to send him back there. But I don't think that's true. When 815 crashed (in, what, 2004?), AKA 'D', 'A' 'B' and 'C' HAD already happened, because time flows like a river, or time is a string. Starts at one end, goes straight across (A-E, or whatever) to an endpoint (granted that beginning and ending are not perceivable or infinite). While the Losties, as individuals, have moved from points 'E' back to 'B', or whatever, 'A', 'B', 'C', and 'D' HAD to happen as they're happening to get to piont 'E'; nothing can change. As Miles said this episode, "That is what always happened." Or, to quote the title of the episode, "Whatever Happened, Happened." -
Which post are you accuse me of blowing off? The long, rambling Bingo Game post...or the last one with "The Letters of Doom"?
Both were funny...in two completely different ways! But I have my head wrapped tightly around your time travel theory...and yes...I agree completely...100%.
But let's see how it holds up when a 'variable' gets introduced. -
Hey CherryValance, you do realise that Locke didn't turn the FDW the wrong way. Ben pushed it right to left, Locke pulled it from the right to the left.
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Don't make me get out my Time Travel Chalkboard...or it's gonna be a LONG night, brutha!
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Sorry, my last post even confused me.
Jabba, let me just ask a simple question; do you believe that li'l Ben was always shot by Sayid? -
That's where Ben sent the others before he went off to get his ass handed to him by Jack at the end of season 3. We haven't SEEN it yet but it's still around.
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James: "Where'd you come from?"
Richard: "You asked for me so I'm here..."
or some such... -
People don't look up to anyone anymore. They have no heroes left. The media and the internet suck onto ANY person's success and do all they can to prove no one is worthy.
Everyone has forgotten that humanity is deeply flawed...and that's as good as it gets. People are bitter about anyone who seems better than them. The media used to protect Hollywood stars to a certain extent...especially when it came to their marital (wink) arrangements. Gossip was one thing...but total destruction of people and their family's? Never.
I have no political bent AT ALL...but we just elected a former drug dealer as a president. As far as I'm concerned...this should give EVERYONE on planet earth a pass...and bring down any person's expectations of others to a reasonable level...don't you think.
It's hard to like heroes...and easy to connect to villains...because villains do and say exactly what we wish WE could have done after a roofie or a date gone horribly wrong or in any of the millions of hopeless situations which we must ENDURE for a lifetime...rather than strike out and seek the justice we play in our heads...every day...of that one moment when he or she just DESERVED to get what was coming to them...instead, a life-long regret. Ciao! -
I think there's gonna be a huge battle at the temple somewhere down the line.
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Deja vu..
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That would be cool.
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"You asked for me so I'm here."
Does that make Alpert the Candyman?
"Just look into a mirror, and say 'Manliner' five times..." -
Where your logic is going off the rails is that it doesn't matter if Sayid always shot him.
Let's put it this way: Let's say that in the future, Ben's cancer was caused by a bullet striking his spine. Then, let's say that Jinn stopped Sayid from pulling the gun. The island WILL make sure he still gets shot in the spine...accidently (Sawyer trips and his gun goes off while Ben is playing) or purposely (Jack takes matters into his own hands...leads Ben into the jungle and guns him down)...ALL leading to the point in the LINEAR timeline where Ben has cancer. Three ways...same result.
If Sayid didn't shoot Ben...he would have been shot somehow...NOT saved by Jack...and ended up with Richard. Make sense? -
A-OK in my book for NOT helping that future manipulator asshole Ben Linus!BTW like Hurley and that dude talk about time-travel and all the confusion surrounding it. I mean if we're confused, why shouldn't the actual characters be as well. LOL
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I completely understand you and am in complete agreeance with this. "Course correction" and all that, yes? :D
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Guess you are gone...but the joke was in the "Letters of Doom"...
C came after A and C followed D (AC/DC)...
And anyone who doesn't think it's clever after BINGO!! time travel can suck it... -
It doesn't matter if Lil Ben had never freed Sayid and gotten himself shot. If Sayid was not there...the difference would be...One barracks and VW bus would have been saved...and Ben would have gotten his injury some other way.
So...earlier I ran down the list of why everyone came back to the island. Hurley's STILL the odd man out...But I think Chaw-lee will fill in those gaps a few weeks from now.
But I just had a thought about why Juliet & Sawyer got sent to 1977...
Sawyer...said it himself in THIS episode..."I did a lot of growin up". Getting stranded in '77 let him get a fresh start in life...Sure...he's still in a 'con' with The Dharma Initiative...but with Juliet, he finally got that 'white picket fence' life he was tryin to get with Kate. And BECAUSE he was such a good con, he NEEDED to be there when the rest of the 0-6 showed up and started wreaking havoc, to keep their covers from getting blown...and...even delivering lil Ben Linus to Richard Alpert.
Juliet is getting to finally do what she came to the island to do in the first place...deliver babies! But she also got Sawyer...who, as gruff as he is, is a far cry from the douche she WAS married to. Frustrated and powerless to help her sister off island...here she has been a healing force.
Until she couldn't heal lil Ben...which I think was more her motivation to chew out Jack in the shower. But...as Sawyer said last week..."Yer here ONE DAY and there's a bus in a house! Been here 3 years and NOTHING like this has happened until YOU showed up!"...I think Juliet was giving Jack that same speech in a different way.
I think now the island is trying to tell Sawyer & Jules that they're 'lessons' are complete...it's time to move on. -
My favorite band of all time by the way.
Sorry you had to 'spell it out' for me. Huh huh...see what I did there? Good Jacob, it's late! I gotta hit the hay! Namastzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. -
to Miles? I didn't catch it. Is there a clip of the last part of their conversation somewhere?
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...doomed the kid to be a soulless manipulator. Richard all but told them, "you won't like what you get back".
Maybe the reason Ben hates the Losties is because he knows it was them who made him what he is.
BTW- Anyone remember offhand which episode it was that had all the Ben flashbacks? I wanna rewatch that and can't find it. -
The last line was said by Miles, not Hurley. It was "Ask me more questions about time travel".
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Jack couldn't have saved Ben, it would have changed history. You cannot change what happened, if Jack had saved Ben it would have changed the future.
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the proportion of talk about this episode vs. other crap means that it wasn't that great, or interesting. The Miles/Hurley chat was fun though; it seems they threw in a lot of winks to the audience in this one.It appears that we'll be leaving the Dharma camp next week, which is good. Aside from young Ben, they all seem about as important as red shirts.
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good episode, like others have said highlights, Miles/Hurly convo, and Lily's acting. No real revelations from my perspective nor no new theories
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using Hurley and Miles to hash out the same conversation that routinely goes in these talkbacks was just terrific. And the final seconds with Ben and Locke were probably the best acting on the series to date. Until that final scene, we've never seen Ben scared or not in control ... and with just his eyes, Michael Emerson conveyed a sense of panic and fright when he saw Locke sitting bedside. By all accounts, next week's episode should just be incredible. For all the bashing Lost took for Season 2, they are hitting home-run after home-run this season.
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Was it just me, or was she looking even more fuckable than usual tonight ? That is one seriously beautiful chick there. They need to keep her in a tight t-shirt in just about every scene that doesn't involve her going for a swim.
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That everyone here is finally on the same damn page, Hutt, fain, brody, etc... are all on the same theory (aka "the right theory")
the linear timeline has finally been explained, and the conversation between hurley and miles was great, would be sweet if they continued to try and figure things out, Ones a comic nerd with strange ideas about fate (the numbers, etc) and who occasionally sees dead people; the other, hears dead people and has been living on the island now for 3 years with the DI. They could be Holmes and Watson to us Fans... Maybe they track down faraday to figure shit out???
I loved that Jack *not* helping ben is what actually leads him to being the evil bastard he Is, now, according to our time theory, if jack wasn't there there would have been another doctor around either unavailable or unable (ala juliet) to save him... however *IF* jack had tried to save young Ben he may not have been able to do anything leading to him going to the Others anyways... *JUNGLE TRUMPET*
I can't fucking wait for next week because this Ep pretty much ended at the mid point, next weeks installment will be *mental*.
also would it be sooo much to ask for people to wait till 8-9pm pacific to start posting obvious spoilers from the current episode? I know they get it super early In the UK (for some reason), but it really sucks catching a spoiler like 5 posts into the talkback.
THANK YOU JAGOFFS FOR SPOILING LoM FOR ME... dickheads.
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That everyone here is finally on the same damn page, Hutt, fain, brody, etc... are all on the same theory (aka "the right theory")
the linear timeline has finally been explained, and the conversation between hurley and miles was great, would be sweet if they continued to try and figure things out, Ones a comic nerd with strange ideas about fate (the numbers, etc) and who occasionally sees dead people; the other, hears dead people and has been living on the island now for 3 years with the DI. They could be Holmes and Watson to us Fans... Maybe they track down faraday to figure shit out???
I loved that Jack *not* helping ben is what actually leads him to being the evil bastard he Is, now, according to our time theory, if jack wasn't there there would have been another doctor around either unavailable or unable (ala juliet) to save him... however *IF* jack had tried to save young Ben he may not have been able to do anything leading to him going to the Others anyways... *JUNGLE TRUMPET*
I can't fucking wait for next week because this Ep pretty much ended at the mid point, next weeks installment will be *mental*.
also would it be sooo much to ask for people to wait till 8-9pm pacific to start posting obvious spoilers from the current episode? I know they get it super early In the UK (for some reason), but it really sucks catching a spoiler like 5 posts into the talkback.
THANK YOU JAGOFFS FOR SPOILING LoM FOR ME... dickheads.
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somehow firefox resent the damn post (i may have accidentally clicked it, actually). And now i can't delete it!!! noes!!!
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Waking up in 2035 from suspended animation on the first mission to Mars > Waking up from a coma in 2006, being bored, and then killing yourself to "go back to 1973."
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... although the Uk version is great as well, they both work good together which is at least a positive.
I still have no idea though how a fresh period crime procedual involving time travel, a kickass 70's soundtrack, and Harvey Keitel in stylish loafers, didn't at least get another season to flesh it out a bit. T.V. Execs are fucking retarded. -
I loved the Time Travel dialogue more than anything in this episode. I liked when Hurley asked the question we all have been asking, "Why doesn't Character A remember Character B when they meet them again in the future/present?". BUT... when they showed Ben waking up, it felt almost like when they show Desmond waking up from one of his *time travel dreams*. Does present Ben now remember interacting with the Losties in the past?
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awwwwwwww....always did like you.
;-> -
Did I mention that I still have 4 teams alive in the Final 4? I did? Oh well...Go Heels!!
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I think it was S3 during my parrallel universe thought pattern where I said Ben doesn't lie because all things happen just not necessarily in this universe.
Silly me.
But I'm beginning to think when he told us he was born on the island he wasn't lying....at least not in a religious context.
He's still the lying bug-eyed bastard we now know him to be...even Ms Hawkings answered Jack's question about is he lying as probably...but he may not be lying about this.
At least not from a religious point of view. -
I've finally got it! It's not Back to the Future time travel or 12 Monkeys time travel - it's Austin Powers time travel!
Austin: Wait a tick. Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumeably, I could go back and visit my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and traveled back to...
[goes cross-eyed]
Austin: Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.
Basil: I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself.
[to camera]
Basil: That goes for you all, too.
Austin: Yes.
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They're the team of Destiny this year! Led by Travis WALTon! Come Tuesday morning, the Heels will have ... LOST!
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I was going by Christian's direction. He said it only needed a push and Locke pulled. *shrug*
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awesome.
Lost timetravel is a *tad* more complicated but there are some people who could do with that advice.
"I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself."
hahHAH!1... Priceless. -
the way real scientists think it works or is it time travel rules they made up for the show?
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I didn't read all of the posts after the episode ended, but I read the first couple of hours of posts. There seems to be some nagging questions flying around that I feel have already in some ways been addressed or answered. 1.Cherry, Widmore and Ellie are not above Ben inthe hierarchy, Ben became leader once Widmore and Ellie left or were kicked off the island. Richard in some respects stands to the side of the hierarchy. There's Jacob (in the original storyline) and then Ben. Richard's place doesn't come between the two of them and as proved tonight, isn't below them either. Widmore held Ben's position in the past (77 era) and was exiled for a reason we haven't learned yet. Ben took his post. I don't knbow if anyone has mentioned this yet but could Penny and Farraday be twins? Think of the writers mad love for Star Wars. The Luke and Leia aspect doesn't seem like a stretch for this show. Sorry off topic. Anyway, Richard is the Other responsible for unseating Ben and welcoming Locke. Ben knew the path Locke was to take and scared him off with the order to kill his own father. Richard went to Locke and told him tat the Others weren't happy with Ben's obsession with fertility and everyone felt a change was in order. Richard seems more like a guide than an actual other. What incredible foreshadowing by the wirters on all the theories we would be arguing over. They even got the Back To The Future in there months before we would argue it amongst ourselves. The writers have always had an incredible connection with the audience, something that can only be fuly appreciated with multiple viewings, now if only they had metioned 12 Monkeys...They even dropped the argument on the one aspect of this whole crazy ass thing. It seems almost everyone on this board came to a consensus on the time travel with the exception of a few stragglers. The one thing that we didn't all agree on was Ben's memory of Sayid. When Miles threw his arms up in the air over that question I laughed out loud. Then we got instant gratification as it was partialy explained at the end of the episode. There should be NO MORE arguments for the Back To The Future crowd. All in all, I thought it was a pretty good episode, especially the way that Jack finally giving in to the Island and refusing to help actually created the Ben that he wanted to let die. Beautiful. One complaint though, Kate's reasoning for wanting to go back was handled sloppily I feel. I know Kate's always running and wishy-washy, but I think it have to be something incredibly monumental and epic to get her to run away back to only place on earth (?) that she couldn;t run away from.
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And I am still laughing. You were a juggernaut buddy. Big E - good to see your MSU loving ass as well. At least you are still in it. Represent the big 10 well my friend.
Great ep for being a "Kate" ep. Those are consistently weak. Not this week.
Love the TB gang...finr work. Fine work. -
Lost is a heavily dependent on ambiguity of its ideas. that way it can be anything until the last episode of course. once again, audiences like shows that give them the cold shoulder as long as it delivers them all the twists and edgy characterizations and the WTF moments. some say its great TV, others know better. Lost is like the kid that cried wolf too many times. the jig is up guys we all know what a mess this show has been.
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The Lost time-travel theories are scientific and mathematical. Time travel can hold water as a theory but not a truth. Most scientists like Hawking and Einstein who looked into time travel explian it somewhat like the Lost version.
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that's a long name :) That means it's Hawking's and Einstein's butts I have to kick. Somehow, I think I can take them.
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Go find a Grey's Lobotomy or American Idol TB to annoy. You know you just LURVE them. You are a gnat in need of swatting. Once again...piss off.
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Wheelchair bound and Einstien is quite dead. I put my money on you Buddy. Vegas has you as 3 to 1. I'll take that bet.
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it got the most uninteresting characters i have ever seen. BSG had more interesting characters than that. i dont know why, maybe its the boring flashbacks that barely have any ties to the episode or maybe its the fact that they are just plain old boring to begin with. they are the same as ur pet dogs that play around the house. do few tricks. get excited when ur back from work. but at the end of the day all they do is eat and shit. u look into their eyes and u realize---they got no soul.
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Everybody has been trying to swat that fly for two days now, and all who try to swat give the little pest exactly what he wants: attention. Just ignore it like its parents did and it will go seek out another board or outlet for the maternal love it needed and didn't recieve while growing up a slimy maggot
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*cues Terminator music*
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Good to hear from you - take care, buddy. And I agree on Brody's posts - always look forward to his theories and comments! Last night was the first episode I got to watch live as it aired in a month, so it's great to be able to post at the same time as everyone else!
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Not worth the bandwidth. Thanks.
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From 2000 when Mateen Cleeves knocked Bucky out of the final 4. I can hold a grudge buddy!
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SG-1 sucks because it had that 'Made in Canada'feel to it. Ex: The music during the show sounded like it was done on a 80's Casio Keyboard.
The set peices looked half assed and the acting, RDA aside sucked.
It could have been "Little Mosque on the Praire" in space. Would have looked and sounded the same.
Hmmm, that's an idea, Beachcombers in space!
I'm going to email CBC right now and get our tax payer dollers right on it!
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I can't wait till State fucking punks UNC and Tyler Hansbrough back to their hick state.
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not here to flame but im here to say why i disliked the show. or do u want to hear the expected? btw this show is not as bad as most shows, but it totally took a different shitty direction and missed its chance to be awesome. the characters are really bland surprising, they realised that and shifted focus on the plot but then the plot is nothing worth watching since it all revolves around uncovering the island's mystery, which is highly unoriginal and bogus--- like a virgin artist.
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What money you may ask? Umm...the commission off the $10 million Sawyer stole for the Warden while he was in jail and had put in an account in Albuquerque in Clementine's name. Sawyer might have wanted to mention that to Kate before jumping out of the helicopter. WTF?
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Jesus, if I have to hear one more bullshit statement about how grandiose BSG is I will kill children. I tried watching BSG, it bored me. People that like BSG are the same people who are clutching their BSG underroos and crying themselves to sleep now that the "grand epic" is over. Yeah, shove another cupcake down your throat and shut the fuck up you aesthetic heathens.
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Hobo you are correct. Weather is good and the golf is awesome but in the end...it is Fletch discussing ball bearings. Sucks to be a Wisconsinite here.
Go Big Ten! -
The characters are bland? Please shut your mouth. A torturing badass former Iraqi Republican Guard, a fugitive on the run for killing her own father, a ghost whispering psychic, a spinal surgeon with a drug and alcohol problem, a former hostile tryign to get off the island at any cost, a lottery winning jinx, a future flashing Scotsman, a brain-fried physicist, a pathological liar who holds the island's secrets, a conspiracy theorizing commercial airline pilot, a conman turned hero, a heroin sniffing rockstar, a beleagured Korean couple trying to reunite across time, and oh yeah, the resurrected from the dead former loser turned spiritual warrior.
Talk about BLAND. -
I'm glad you're supporting state despite the Ryan/Izzo feud. Let's root on Penn State in the NIT final tonight boys! BIG TEN!!
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it had all the elements in a story that i liked. i wish i can come up with something similar in brilliance and i tried but it will never match such a cool concept show no matter how much i tried. it is not appealing to the masses because its not trying too hard to make you watch, its indifferent to your needs. the 'Made in Canada' feel is what made it unique and great. it made it down-to-earth and cheerful. instead of falling into the trap that is style-over-story, they instead weaved stories that unintentionally made it what it is today. sure u might get turned-off by the consistent tone of the show, we all know how u got so used to shows being superbowel ads. enjoy the 43 minute commercial, that features some crappy characters on an island.
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Nice one.
You sound like hurley sitting at his mother's dining room table. :P -
damn she was looking hot in that supermarket scene," supermarkets - a great place to see MILFs"
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I find them bland, im not so sure why. they are just to preachy. too talky. and they all look like idiots. like what the hell was the Iraqi doing with malibu barbie? why is the rockstar seem so trivial? i could go on. its all a mockery of real people. they feel written not acted.
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seemed a little too convenient and obvious for Lost. We normally have to wait for explanations.
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If Widmore is still on the island in the '70s, and it is Ben who gets him kicked off the island, can we assume that it's Widmore who turns the wheel and sends the Losties stuck in the '70s back to their own time?
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STARGATE the original movie was a Masterpeice.
This is just a Canadian made copy.
Remember Robocop: The TV series?
Same production style, same crappy acting and setpeices. Gotta love that 80's Casio keyboard, surely milking that one. -
You could probably have a more intelligent conversation with Vincent, actually scrap probably, you definetely could
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*Woof*
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I guess that's possible right?
I also wondered about the money Sawyer set aside. I doubt if they'll go back and explain that. So it will probably be another thing that we just have to accept. -
Make me happy and sad at the same time. Love the passion, but hate the content.
And SpyGuy - fuck you for almost spoiling the Life on Mars finale in an unrelated TB. -
Make a great show full of references to other pieces of fiction and your viewers will want to buy or rent those other pieces of fiction. Lost got me to read VALIS, these TBs have got me to rent 12Monkeys
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Is what the 1st part of that post is about.
But mainly, SpyGuy is a douche. -
well the american feel is when each scene ends with a crescendo i guess. canadians made stargate subtle which fitted the subtext, where humanity slowly and wisely rises up to face a new challenge. and through that they earn their place in the universe.
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It's possible she already has the money. Sawyer set up the account so there was no way she would know it was from him. Perhaps that means she'll get it on her 18th birthday or something.
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I've actually read books because of this show. LOL Seriously though, I read Watchmen because of this show a few years back because of LOST.
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helps me write sentences. :/
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There's no LIFE ON MARS final talkback, mastermind, and people were already talking about the finale. Take your knuckles off the ground while you walk and scroll up to previous posts.
By the way, you can't spoil something after it already aired. Otherwise, Wikipedia is nothing but a spoiler site. You get that, Douche, or should I type smaller words?
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I loved the heart-to-heart between Kate and Sawyer and Hurley's questions. I thought the whole "He won't remember any of this" was a bit TOO convenient. But, I think it meshes with what Ben said, "I was born on this island." Maybe he really believed it. Or, maybe he meant it metaphorically. I wonder...remember when one of the costumers, or whatever she was, said that they had to dig an old outfit out for a character she was surprised would be back, but it was for another actress? Maybe she meant that Claire-from-behind (happy thoughts!) shot in the store that just turned out being a woman who looked like Claire-from-behind.
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First off, UNC already kicked the shit outta MSU back in december, so you'll probably be waiting awhile for that outcome. Secondly, I'm from that "hick state" and while we do have a lot of them around here, I still take offense to that statement, you asshat.
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LOST mentioned watchmen? when?
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coz this lost got drained years ago.
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I just read over his posts, they offer nothing of substance. I feel sorry for you guys that continually take his bait.
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Yes, cause WISCONSIN is so vital and progressive :(
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Was Henry Gale's balloon.
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Yeah but didn't the very end of Hurley & Miles conversation actually leave an opening to the possibility that Ben might still remember everything?
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...but you did, didn't you? Guess I'll have to go over this yet again.
In NC we do not have cars on cinderblocks in our front yards. We put them around back where they're supposed to be.
I have never had sex with a female family member...mainly because I don't have a female family member.
My brother is not my cousin too. He's my uncle.
Our moonshine does not taste like kerosine. If it did, why would we need to make it since a gallon of that shit is cheap?
We do not all live in Mayberry, Mt. Pilot or Silar City. Too many northern tourists there.
We do not all have guns and gun racks in our trucks. Explosives are a whole bunch more fun.
And lastly....well, I'll hold off on lastly until Tuesday after we whip UConn's ass.
;-> -
i dont watch LOST. i rather watch FOUND
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No....I didn't just say the spurtans wouldn't even make it to Monday night....did I?
;-> -
Sorry to ruin the harmony, but I'm not really buying the course correction thing. I'm firmly in the "whatever happened, happened so rousseau fucking ALWAYS met Jin" camp rather than JabbaTheMutt's "whatever happened, happened...overall, bigger picture wise. course correction n stuff...if it wasnt sayid who shot ben someone would have". Unless I'm not understanding this theory, still.
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go to and check most popular petitions --- http://www.petitionspot.com/
u will find that stargate is second after harry potter. -
one of the Darltons I think it was Damon said it was a huge influence on him and back in the Walt & the comic book days a lot of people were talking about it. I still think it holds if Alvar Hanso is like Adrian Veidt.
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I reposted the results of the 316 poll about what Kate did with Aaron. http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
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being lost in an island usually gets someone raped. that iraqi shouldve been the rapist.
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being lost in an island usually gets someone eaten. that asian shouldve been the cannibal.
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being lost in an island usually gets someone diarrhea. that fatboy shouldve been the diarrhea.
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being lost in an island usually gets someone STDs. that Kate shouldve been the STD.
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sheesh, what a waste of valuable LOST space.
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dang, i suspect we're gonna have to wait until the finale. really great to see you back on the boards ED! and greetings to all room23 visitors. you should come by next week to watch the show with us. we only chat during commercials mostly. :)
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Oh shit- I just thought of it. THAT'S the sickness Rousseau was referring to. THAT'S what happened to Robert and Montand and the other Frenchmen when they came back from the Temple- They lost their innocence, just as young Ben is about to. You go in the Temple, you come back different, you come back changed. Rousseau blamed Smokey and the Temple. She said it was a sickness. Robert and the others became... Others, and Rousseau didn't like it so she shot them. Could this be the sickness? Its a loss of innocence? If so... I'm amazed.
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this is phase 2. do want to know more? http://tinyurl.com/yo3ndz
end of transmission. -
we lost our innocence when we went through the stargate.
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We are here to make this world a better place
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wow, this is why he's always bitching about Lost and BSG. He misses Stargate SG1! My gods, anyone who prefers SG1 to Lost or BSG seriously needs their head examined. I mean, are you fucking kidding me? 2 of the most groundbreaking shows in the history of television vs. syndicated tripe? Come. On.
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what a dickbag. The asshole causes the whole problem with Ben by being a dick and NOT helping him. If he wanted to change the future, he should have said he would help, opened up Little Ben's chest and then taken a page from Paolo's book and taken a huge, steaming shit in it. Problem solved. Basically whatever decisions Jack has made since Oceanic crashed have been dead to fuck wrong.
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You can never know the future. And if you're ever in this type of situation where you think you can change the course of time and fate, change the future by acting or through inaction- it turns out you can't. Doesn't matter your choice- the choice has already been made.
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we're out there now, we might not be ready for a lot of this stuff, but we're doing the best that we can... we are a very curious race.
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I'm not so sure; I thought that too at one point, but now I think that it has more to do with babies. I think, and blow this all to hell guys, that the baby problem pops us, Ellie gets pregnant with the twins (Farraday and Penny) and Widmore makes a decision to bolt with Ellie to save the lives of his children. Once gone, he can't find his way back. Remember, he tells Ben that the Island is his, if Widmore made a conscious choice to leave the Island and come back with his children, he would still believe the Island to be his. If he was indeed thrown out of the Others camp and exiled, would he still make the claim that he was the leader and the Island belonged to him? Lost blows my fragile little mind.
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Well everyone was fine until your UNC arrogance arrived proclaiming your team's superiority. You can brag about UNC's victory over MSU on a neutral court with fan's 20 rows back, without our big man, and with Carolina bullshit calls putting Raymar Morgan on the bench within the first two minutes...but you would just look pathetic. You know you fear the rematch. This time with our fans configured in seating closer to the court, our players healthy, and our coach that wipes his ass with Roy "I wear my caps sideways yo!" Williams eager to bring a championship back to his home state.
P.S. Sorry RB. We can't all be as classy as you are my friend. -
My memory isn't what it used to be (Goddamned crack!) but I think Sawyer told the warden to put the money in a trust fund for Clementine and i do remember for sure that Clementine and Cassidy were to never know where it came from. That's why Sawyer didn't tell Kate to tell them where itr came from, and if it indeed were a trust fund, Clementine wouldn't get the money until she reached adulthood.
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That's a great theory.
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I've decided that the Lost Creators really hate doctors. I mean, really hate them.
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I think who the wardrobe director was talking about was Horace Goodspeed's wife. Think about it, she was a cameo in Season Three, an afterthought, and then all of a sudden she reappears in Season 5 being played by a new actress (Michelle from 24). To me that makes the most sense, it's already common knowledge that Claire will be back in part for Season 6, so it would not be a shock that they would have to wardrobe the character of Claire again. Most of the main Losties who have been killed off have been back in cameos or flashbacks, so the only type of character that would surprise the crew in reappearing would be a minor character, right?
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Could be. Although Sawyer just set up a bank account in her name, not a trust. I'm inclined to think they already had the money though. Cassidy was broke and running small-time scams the last time we saw her, and now she seems to be living quite comfortably in the burbs in this last episode. It's possible she had the money but it's mystery to me as to how she found out about it. Perhaps the bank informed her. And would Cassidy be able to access those funds if the accoutn was in Clem's name? Where is a banker when you need one? Oh right, they all fled to S. America a few months ago with our money.
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We don't know Olivia was Horace's wife. They could have been siblings. Hell we never even got her last name on the actual show.
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Yeah, I wasn't sure, I just thought I remembered him saying it was to be a trust.
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Seriously, we used to be cool, chatting here at the LOST tbs and at Twitch, but now you're just acting like an asshole? When did I come in here proclaiming UNC arrogance? When I shouted "GO HEELS!"? Was that it? Then how dare you come in championing MSU's superiority like a fucking twat? And since when was Detroit a neutral court? I guess you forgot that's where we played back in December?
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You're right, but stil, I don't think the wardrobe person would be talking about a main character. I mean, if any main character who has died showed up next week, would any of us really be surprised?
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Which is unfortunate for you guys. But let's just settle this by saying if we both win saturday, monday night will be interesting.
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When Richard Alpert told Sawyer and Kate that once he does what he needs to do Ben will be forget and be forever one of them, I started thinking. Is this what happened to Claire? Remember in season one she lost her memory and it was never really explained. Then later one she kinda of just abandons Aron with no reluctance.
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They went to the Temple and came back changed and "sick". In reality they lost their innocence and became Others. Rousseau didn't like it and shot em down.
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Now that would be one crazy flashback... :)
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Apr 02, 2009 12:31:17 PM CDT
Remember when we saw that video of the Time Travelling Rabbit?
by dhaemon
Who's copy also showed up in the video and everyone freaked out.
I wonder how that works with Sawyer and the bunch. -
Sorry if I was harsh. I overreacted and apologize. But I am sick of UNC fans. Tired of your bandwagoning nongraduate fans that are utterly ubiquitos and unavoidable. Tired of seeing that baby blue everywhere I go and taking over my regular bars. Tired of assholes who have them winning it all in their pools cheering for the overdog as if their lives depended on it for a measly $200 bucks they might win. Tired of them bragging about their win over UNC last year to a tea mwithout two of its best players on YES a neutral court. Detroit issn't Breslin. There were probably more Heels "fans" there than Spartan fans knowing Detroit.
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That would be an instant classic.
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We really don't know what "loss of innocence" means yet. You guys are applying the phrase to all the adults, but that's just the phrase Richard used in regards to Ben, who was still a child. The phrase might have only applied to him. But whatever the process does, I'd agree that it's what happened to Claire. Anyone else find this profoundly creepy, in a "body snatchers" sort of way?
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Who said goran wasn't playing?
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But you know if it weren't UNC, it'd be whatever team was number 1 at the moment. It'd be Duke (Bleh) or UCLA or, well, you get the picture. And I can understand somewhat. That's how I feel every time a Boston team is doing well, no matter the sport.
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Thought I read somewhere that his knee was bothering him again.
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Jesus I almost shit my pants. ;-)
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Feels like home again now.
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While it is entirely possible that Widmore holds the title of leader, I'm not sure how the one Other asking him to run it by Elle and Charles is much different from one of the survivors asking Kate if she should consult Jack or Locke before taking an unusual course of action. Most groups have a dynamic core of decision makers/leaders that generally work together, not independently. I mean, it's not like Richard had to restrain the dude after brushing off his assertion. So, I think his fear level of Charles and Elle is fairly low. Plus, as we saw in his proding/awakening of Locke, Richard seems to make his own decisions at the important moments.
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Got a little riled up =).
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I'm sure he was captain of the Black Rock, and some of the Others are his crew. Or maybe he was a crew member that rose to prominence among the survivors. BTW, I'm not sure the timing matches up, but perhaps the crew of the Black Rock learned the Dharma Initiive kill/pretend to be them trick when they wiped out the indigenous population of the island. Think some of that dynamite got used on the statue?
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I'm about halfway through Season 1 in my rewatchings. Couple thoughts. First off, poor Charlie. The dude almost dies a hundred times in the first five episodes, and this is before Ethan hangs his ass. Second, has anyone noticed how many of the survivors from 815 weren't actually supposed to be on that flight? Kate coulda ran and got away. Sun is supposed to ditch Jin at the airport, and I'm sure he wouldn't have boarded without her. Jack begs to get himself and his father's body on the plane. Claire gets tricked into the flight at the last second by the fortune teller. Locke would've been on the walkabout. Was it like this for everyone?
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I think the Others are different, there definitely is a more regimented system, and a true appointed leader. Richard even says as much when Locke went to him earlier this season and told him that he was to be their leader. Richard said something along the lines of, "We have a very strict policy on finding/choosing a leader, it starts from birth/childhood." Can't remember the exact words he used, so I'm paraphrasing. The Losties on the other hand, simply looked to Jack as a leader, and Jack reluctantly took on that role. The Others have a true leader in acob and a true second in Ben/Widmore. Richard is the exception in that he doesn't answer to Ben or Widmore. At the same time, however, I don;t remember Richard or anyone else ever making the claim tat he speaks directly with Jacob. The producers have stated that Richard is the one charged wth finding the new leaders. The unnamed Others from last night, I believe, asked Richard if they should run it by Ellie or Charles because Ellie and/or Charles is the definitive leader of the Others, again, Richard being the exception responded by saying he doesn't answer to them. So if Richard doesn't answer to the leader, and it hasn;t been stated yet if Richard can see or hear Jacob, where does Richard get his inspiration or orders? I hope we don't see a backstory on Richard, of course we want to know more, but the writers have kept him so shrouded in mystery over the last few years I think he should remain that way. Tell us just what we need to know, but leave us guessing as well
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I agree with your idea about the French. Is this possbily what happened to Cindy the flight attendant? She seemed a little "creepy" too.
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Good question. In JUGHEAD, it seemed like Richard was the one calling the shots. Suddenly, in 1977, Ellie and Widmore are top dogs? What happended? And why would the island choose Locke or Ben to be leaders too? Does this have anything to do with Jacob? Perhaps Jacob is the true leader of the Others...but they need Jack to free him?
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...on the subject of basketball...Go Stanford!
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I think you're right. But when we saw what happened to Danielle's people the sickness seemed like they were possessed. And last night when Richard said Ben would lose his innocence and all that it reminded me of Pet Semetary. So with the Egyptian stuff and everything, I'm thinking they are taken over by something. Could be the island, gods, someone's old dead cat. They're no longer them. That's why Dani killed her peeps, and that's why Ben became the kind of dude Sayid should kill. Ben owes the island, that's why he does it's bidding. He kills without remorse and won't let anything come between him and the island. The Island is EVUL...
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Maybe that's what they do to Others' they didn't recruit on the mainland. They send them straight to the Temple? Though I'd like to think they just laid some heavy truths upon her and the Temple is something far more sacred.
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Here's what the scene means. Back in '99, there was a great John Sayles film called "Limbo" (beware, I'm going to spoil the ending). In it, a man (David Strathairn), his new girlfriend (Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio), and her daughter (Vanessa Martinez) are all stranded on an island and forced to unite to survive. For reasons too complicated to get into here, they're hiding from a group drug runners that wants them all dead for witnessing an execution. In the middle of the film, Kris Kristofferson miraculously finds them, but must go back to the mainland alone to bring back help. However, Strathairn accidentally killed Kris' brother years back, and there's a chance Kris may be scouting for the drug runners anyway. Long Story Short, the final scene of the film is a plane returning. Did Kris get help? Is it the drug runners? And then, before the plane lands, the film goes to black. No answer. The two audiences I saw it with nearly rioted. Even the film's DP, the great Haskell Wexler, didn't understand it!! Of course, the title tells you being in limbo, not having any answers, is what they were building towards. THE POINT IS THAT WHATEVER HAPPENS THEY WILL DEAL WITH IT AS A FAMILY. David Chase was clearly aiming for a similar concept with his ending. Perhaps something that was so cinematic or nuanced was a little too much for TV, clearly it was for MachThree. I agree, all the close-ups seem to hint that SOMETHING is going to happen. But I feel those shots suggest the families' heightened awareness, due to the fact that all of those plots and loose ends and NOT been tied up. The final moments show this family gathering to create the show's most consistent image and theme - the family at the dinner table. So, whether the FBI comes in and busts Tony, a hitman kills one or all of them, or they go on living happily ever after (not an easy task for this lot), THEY WILL DEAL WITH IT AS A FAMILY. If there's any doubt, Journey's "Don't Stop" lyrics are almost as obvious as AC3's from the opening ("You woke up this morning, Got yourself a gun,
Mama always said you'd be
The Chosen One,") - hear them tell it - "Dont stop believin', Hold on to the feelin', Streetlight people." "Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard," "Streetlight people, living just to find emotion, Hiding, somewhere in the night," "Some will win, some will lose, Some were born to sing the blues Oh, the movie never ends It goes on and on and on and on." -
Jack and Kates baby that they concieved off island.
Just wait and see... -
I like this theory, guys. That's what happened to the French, that's what happened to Claire, that's what happened to Cindy and the other 815ers taken by the Others. And PS, when are we gonna' see some more of all those folks? I've been waiting for an explination on Cindy and the kids for a couple seasons now. Again, though, I'm reserving full thought on this till next week; I've got a feeling we're going to get a few answers on what's being done to li'l Ben.
dancetothebeatofthelivingdead & keter, that is a SICK theory about why Widmore left the island, and why he'd still think of it as 'his'. Absolutely awesome. I'm now convinced we're gonna' see a younger Widmore turning that wheel in the final episode this season and causing an, oh, I don't know...INCIDENT? -
...for Cheif and anybody else who doesn't look ahead.
I was struck with something; what are the 5 biggest questions on Lost right now?
1. What the hell is Smokey?
2. What the hell is the Frozen Donkey Wheel (and by extension, the Statue/early island culture and society)
3. What the hell is up with Time Travel?
4. Who the hell are the Others?
5. What was the Incident? (m'kay, maybe not the BIGGEST question, but something they've talked about since Season 2)
Now, what are the remaining titles of the episodes left this season?
1. "Dead is Dead" (most likely about what Smokie is, from preview clips and description of the episode)
2. "Some Like it Hoth" (a play on words, turning 'hot' into 'hoth', somewhere cold; isn't the room the FROZEN donkey wheel in, well...Frozen?)
3. "The Variable" (A confirmed Daniel episode where he talks about 'what he knows', aka Time Travel)
4. "Follow the Leader" (which I interpret to be about the Other's leadership, aka The Others)
5. "The Incident" (self explanatory)
I think we're gonna' get some SERIOUS shit dropped on us for the rest of the season. -
A lot can happen between 1954 and 1977.
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Got an audio review up for it, if anyone cares. http://tinyurl.com/d46knv As for the episode itself, does anyone NOT think Miles is Chang's son at this point? There's moments in the talk with Hurley where Miles has the exact same mannerisms that Chang does.
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And you KNOW we're gonna get the Mother of all flashback eps with Widmore eventually.
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We Lostophiles are a gabby bunch, ain't we?
Mr.Zeddemore, there are SEVERAL flashback eps I'm waiting for. Widmore/Hawking, Alpert, LIBBY (for goodness sake!). Season Six is like Trashcan Man's fabled city of Cibola in 'The Stand', tantalizingly shimmering on the horizon but oh so far out of reach... -
Dude, they'll never do a Libby ep. I'd imagine she'd factor into the series finale (where we get flashbacks to how everyone was manipulated onto the plane.)
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I had faith when she showed up last season. Just always bugged me that there seemed so much left unanswered with her. Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, hell, even Eko I was cool with not knowing any more. Maybe it's because I identify with Hurley and had a sympathy crush on her. Hrm...
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Just as I suspected, everything Kate did made sense, was logical, normal, reasonable. Excellent writing revealed it all. Kate, I'm sorry for calling you a massive bitch. As for the naysayers, I don't care if you want to make jokes about her "crying on the couch" or whatever. What was she supposed to do? She cared for Aaron like he was her own for 3+ years, every single day. It was a bold and noble sacrifice for her to go back and try to find Claire for Aaron's sake, relating to Claire as a mother.
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Why did she sleep with Jack? Especially as she clearly preferred Sawyer, and even Jack said 'you didn't like me.'
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...just watchin it - AND THAT'S NOT WHERE THE DAMN BULLET WENT IN!!
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Unfortunatly Darlton has said on more then one occation that we won't get a Libby story, that there is not enough time. They say that "her story is finished". I don't agree with that, but unfortunatly no more Libby.
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She needed someone to fill the void that Aaron left. And that was Jack.
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...Hurley and Miles, heheh... "say that again?"
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Um, you're not getting it. If Jack would've gotten involved, whatever Jack did, it would've resulted in Ben living, because Ben is alive in the future. So whether Jack participated or boycotted will result in Ben living. That's how this time and course correction stuff works. Some people are mad at Jack for not helping, others are happy he didn't. Either doesn't really matter. Ben lives, and is changed by the Others and the temple. It always happened this way. So Jack always refused to help, including ensuring Ben would die. Get off Jack's back. Why aren't you mad at Kate and Sawyer for helping Ben? Or Richard Alpert?
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poor wee Ben, his later life antics is down to a part of him being taken by the island to save his life....kinda like teh sacrafice of Alex to call Smokie, Ben had to give up his good side to live.....
has this been covered already, am i rambling, I dont know...but give me more Alpert and i'll be happy...fucking legend -
poor wee Ben, his later life antics is down to a part of him being taken by the island to save his life....kinda like teh sacrafice of Alex to call Smokie, Ben had to give up his good side to live.....
has this been covered already, am i rambling, I dont know...but give me more Alpert and i'll be happy...fucking legend -
apart from miles and hurleys interplay. jack and kate = super boring, sayid is the best and most interesting character for me.
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I don't quite get that just from the episodes where little Ben told Richard that he wanted to join the Hostiles and from last week where he kept hanging out with what he thought was the evil Hostile Sayid in prison and breaking him free it seems like he was was already starting on the path to his evil ways. What more can Jacob or Smokie etc do to actually take away his innocence more then he (& his Father) has already done?
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He was still looking for someone to save him. It was less about being evil, more longing to get away from his Dad. I imagine, after this, that he ends up wanting pure bloody revenge.
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was pretty pointless. Honestly, by that point, you knew she was going to give up the kid. Pointless.
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Doesn't anyone remember Sun calling home and talking to her daughter, and telling her that she has a new friend for her, and the camera lingering on Aaron to tell us what she meant? I thought that meant that Aaron was going to be taken care of by Sun's mother/babysitter (or was it Jin's mother in that scene?) Anyway, that kept bothering me when we get this scene with Kate giving Aaron to Claire's mother. It felt like a rewrite.
Also, didn't anyone feel like this episode rather blatantly was fixing a continuity error, with Hurley raising the objection "Why doesn't Ben remember Sayid shooting him" (and Miles going, "hmm, good point", as if Miles was in any position to know anything about whether Ben remembered or not... Miles wasn't around when Sayid first met Ben)?. And then, of course, in the same episode, we have Richard Alpert answering that objection, saying "He won't remember any of this ..." Gah, bullshit, you screwed up, writers. Oh well, but you fixed it now, fine. -
Sun brought Aaron to the meet. Then Kate drove off with Aaron. Sun couldn't follow her, if she took her eyes off Ben then chances are he'd kill her instantly. As for that 'why doesn't Ben remember' - well, it's obvious... he's hardly gonna tell Sayid that story. If he says 'you shot me', then Sayid's going to know he's not 'Henry Gale from Minnesota.'
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What no one seems to realize is that Ben was going to become an Other no matter what. It's like a choose your own adventure story.
If he follows Said into the forest, he'll join the Others
If he is left to his own devices, he'll run off and join the others (presumably)
If he's shot, and needs help (evidently), he'll become an Other
If Jack fixes him, he'll presumably be cast off because he helped Said, and then alienated and join the Others just like before.
So, it's like Miles said - it doesn't matter what they do, it'll still happen, because it has to. It's like Final Destination, or why the dude can't save his fiance in The Time Machine. -
I mean, maybe other fans have noticed lines that indicate that Ben doesn't remember Sayid shooting him. I never thought there was a problem myself. So why raise the issue, and then answer it in the same episode?
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if it was a main character, it'd be no shock, seeing as how no one seems to stay dead. I reckon Kate slept with Jack, thinking she would just settle for what she could get. Thanks, D. Vader, I should have thought of the whole temple Rousseau-Ben connection, that is, the temple being what made Ben what he is, as well as being what made Rousseau's friends sick. I am also pretty eager to find out more about that statue, as in who built it, who it was depicting, etc. Is Richard a god? An alien? I know others on here want him to stay shrouded in mystery, but they could always give us some bit of information that could imply what he is without ever confirming. I mean, c'mon, you mean to say no one on the island has ever looked at him and said, "Gee, Richard, you always stay so young. What is your secret?"
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Hurley raised it as a way to contrast with Miles theory. It's only there so that they can have Desmond course-correct some future events. The comment raises some doubt, so people will shut up about the whole Rousseau doesn't remember Jin thing.
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I don't believe he was what anyone would consider "evil" at that point. In fact, maybe he felt a bit of guilt about what had happened to the hostiles. After all, if the person telling you someone else is evil is the person who is always hurting you, would you believe him? The hostiles, as Mr. Zeddemore said, were an escape, people who could save him.
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You realize that, right? It was something we made up as another measuring system.
To time, things just happen the way that they are happening. It's never... NEVER... "Oh, this didn't happen in the past until the person from the future went back to the past and affected the future."
The way you guys are describing it is, to put it simply, retarded. If someone goes back, changes something that will affect the future, that effect won't happen in that instant in the future. Ben wouldn't simply cease to exist. IT ALWAYS HAPPENED THIS WAY. (Unless, of course you're Desmond... and I'm not even completely sure of that.)
Basically, Ben has ALWAYS been shot by Sayid. The Losties were always in '77. It happens the way it happens. Think of it like this: You're Richard Alpert... you come from where ever the hell you come from... you're on this island hanging out in the 50's wondering what you should do about this big bomb... some bald dude and some other weirdos just show up telling you stuff about how you should be doing this because they are from the future then dissapear... now you're in 77... this shaggy, funny-jawed dude tells you that he knows that you were visited by the bald guy in the 50's... you're wondering, "WTF happens in the future where all these assholes keep coming back to tell me to do stuff?"... you say "OK, whatever, fine."... FAST FORWARD BECAUSE I DON'T FEEL LIKE TYPING ANYMORE... you're in 2004... this plane crashes and it has all these people that you recognize... you realize that they don't know who you are because they haven't met you yet... you act like you've never met them, but you already know everything about them... you just do your thing, because you realize, "Whatever I do now, whatever that is, will move these people to the past where they will affect me and my future and the island. SO, WHAT I DO RIGHT NOW AFFECTS THEM AND IN TURN THEY AFFECT ME AND THAT AFFECTS THE ISLAND AND THEM AND... AW, SHIT... I've gone cross-eyed."
It's a loop assholes. -
Was it me or did it seem like Ben was pants crapping surprised to see Locke back in the land of the living? It supports my theory that Ben killed Locke due to that Locke knew the name of the person who could get them back to the Island. And Ben killed Locke so it would be Ben not Locke who would be the leader of the others. Ben was not even supposed to go back. I dont think Ben thought Locke would come back to life..OR now Locke has changed like ben did..crap..thinking about lost makes my head hurt
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"TIME" is happening right now. Like, right now, an older me shows up and tells me to start working on time-travel. I say ok. I start working on it and twenty years from now I go back in time and tell myself to start working on time-travel. This always happened. It doesn't matter if you're looking at it from point A or B or anywhere in between. Time is not a loop or straight line or anything. The only thing that is a straight line is our lifespan. We're born, we grow up, have some sexy time, eat some delicious burgers, then we get old and die. Time or the passage of time is an afterthought.
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He wasn't attracted to Richard and the Others because they were "evil hostiles". He wanted to be with them because they were mysterious and different- they weren't those people his father was apart of. Its typical- child wants to run away from oppressive household and take up with people he'll feel normal around- the ostracized.
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No one knows ANYTHING concrete about the way time works, so for you to declare that the way people are talking about it on here is "retarded", as if you're a time traveling expert, is, well, douchey.
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The last line of your fist post is, "It's a loop, assholes." (thanks, by the way) Then half-way through your second post, you say, "Time is NOT a loop or striaght line or anything."
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Watching the scenes though in the previous episodes reminded me of the the young Riddle flashbacks in the 6th Harry Potter book. Ben was acting exactly the same as young Riddle. Not saying that he was there yet, just on the path.
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Riddle was not someone who lived life afraid. Riddle lived a life where he delighted in the suffering of others- and that was his only delight. He was never happy at any time. I don't see any of that in Ben. He doesn't want people hurt, he just wants to escape. And he's happy when he's with his friend Annie- whom I would REALLY like some backstory on.
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the concept of "Time" was created by man in the same way the concept of "Gravity" was. Asshat.
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It's normally Ben's theme, but it only started playing upon Locke's reveal.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI
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finally a Kate-centric episode that was more than just merely... alright...
So Richard is totally an "Ancient" like someone postulated weeks ago - I think the idea sprang from the eye liner?
And young Ben gets "replaced" like Rousseau's team, after encountering Smokie? Or will we be seeing the 1970's version of Room 23 next week?
Just one thing keeps bugging me - WHERE'S FARADAY??? -
Apr 02, 2009 5:58:29 PM CDT
Trailer for "Dead is Dead" Spoiler if you don't even watch the a
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
I just posted the trailer for next weeks episode and did anyone notice that about halfway through through theres a quick glimpse of Young Rouseau and Ben tells her "Be greatful your still alive." So it looks like when Ben gets judged we get to see Alex being babynapped!
Then there was a scene right after where Illena punches Ben! Looks like an awsome episode! -
Well we saw him in the premiere in the Donkey Wheel Cave so my guess is that he's working on the Orchid construction in order to help the castaways return to 2007.?!<!?
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that he would get ALL of the 0-6 back to the island. I mean...he was under a 72 hour window of opportunity...Hurley got ARRESTED to avoid going back...Kate ran off...as did Sayid...Locke was dead, so he had no choice...Desmond ran off...but he wasn't even ON flight 815, even though Eloise told him the island wasn't through with him yet.
It was almost like what we have going on on the island now...in 1977...you shoot Ben...you know he wont die...cuz he's alive in the future....
I think Ben wasn't concerned about all the pieces of the puzzle falling miraculously into place...Cuz he already KNEW everybody would be on Flight 316...as if he'd already SEEN the outcome. He knew Hurley would be released from Jail...and possibly be visited by Ghost Chaw-lee...He KNEW Kate would wind up telling Claire's mum about Aaron and 'the lie'...He KNEW Jin's ring was all he needed to sway Sun...He knew Jack had reached his 'anywhere's better than here' breaking point. He knew Ilana would snag Sayid...and he knew Sun wasn't gonna pull that trigger at the marina...cuz he KNEW he'd also be making the trip back.
Anybody else think Ben's already been on this 'Groundhog Day' once? That the trip back to the island was destined to happen...cuz he knows it already DID happen?
I think he and Widdy have a future game going on...and Widdy broke the rules once...and so did Ben. I think it explains their little convo when Ben showed up to meet Charles..."I can't kill you"...Why not Ben...cuz you know he's still alive much further into the future? And he threatens Penny's life cuz somehow Widdy cheated the game when Keamy was allowed to murder her (unexpectedly) in front of Ben.
Somethin fishy is brewin here, folks...and it's not all in the PAST. -
Not to mention lots of Indiana Jones type Temple action, Ben falling in a pit/trap, etc.
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What I'm saying is...remember how they jerked our socks off when Jack's Flashback at the end of season 3 was actually a flash FORWARD?
I think they are doin it all over again folks...only now it's enhanced by time travel. I'm convinced we'll see a LOST scene next season that is happening in 2030. -
If Ben is telling young Rousseau ANYTHING (if they meet in any way whatsoever), isn't that a major continuity error?
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And get all those baby-next-gen Losties growed up so they can get to the island!
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ago. Now I'm not too sure. Ben didn't seem to know that Locke was alive. Also when he turned the donkey wheel he wasn't sure what year it was when he got to Tunisia. Also if this is his past where is the other him from the present that should be living this for the first time, unless he was jumping within his own consciousness?
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No, Rouseau told Sayid that that the Others had kidnapped Alex. Later she confirmed that it was Ben. Also there was a season 3 deleted scene where Ben is taking Locke to see Jacob and Ben relates to him about how he kidnapped Alex.
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that isn't Ben she's clocking with the gun, its Lapidus. Look at his hair
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He doesn't wear eyeliner. Nestor Carbonell's eyes are like that in The Dark Knight and in the Tick and in Suddenly Susan. Michael Emerson also shot down that rumor. Those are his eyelashes, its not a hint of Pharoaism or anything
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childhood show that the time line is not linear from anyone's perspective or am I just confused again?
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No, it wasn't pointless; Kate learned from it. Characters have to have learning arcs and motivations, otherwise they're just puppets of the plot and one dimensional. What she learned from losing Aaron was: "gee, as bad as I felt losing him, I felt like I deserved it and why had it taken so long" also, the lady that had him looked EXACTLY like Claire.. which gave her the idea to go to the island to find Aaron's mother, on behalf of Claire, having empathy for a mother losing her child.
Sorry dude, nice try though. -
Your probably correct, I just got so excited to see they were actually going to do the kidnapping and not just leave it where they left off with Danielle that I thought it was Ben since it is a Ben episode.
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Man thats a nasty animation. anyone know what its from?
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She took on the responsibility of raising Aaron but she couldn't handle it. The grocery store scene not only guilted her about Claire but it also showed that she's 100% paranoid about someone taking him. She couldn't hack having whoever was after him being after her. I mean we know it's Ben now but at the time she didn't know. So I thought she was running from resposibility and her conscience. The cure for both is to go find Claire.
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So you basically kidnap a kid from someone, leave them behind, and then later own up to that, keep the kid safe from a crazy magical wacky island thats EXTREMELY hard to get off of (if ever) by delivering him to his biological relatives (next of kin) and go back to that dangerous island that you hate and never want to be on again, to find the kid's missing mother, which does NOT benefit you, to make it all right..., to the point where we see you physically suffering and crying by giving the kid up.. and you should feel guilty and ashamed.. because you're doing something selfish and wrong and avoiding responsibility? Huh???????
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insisting that time travel works a certain way, the way Miles said, be 100% sure of it, and then in the same breath say "except Desmond". Either there are rules and they apply to Des, or Des disproves the whole thing.
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I'm not going to answer you because I didn't say any of that. You want a fight, pick one with someone else.
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An agent of Ben/Widmore or just an ordinary lady ?
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"she couldn't handle it" "paranoid about someone taking him" "She couldn't hack having whoever was after him being after her" "she was running from resposibility and her conscience". Sorry, you did say those things. You said absolutely nothing about her bravery, owning up to responsibility of taking him, getting him back to family, or going back to find his mom. Maybe you didn't intend to make her look bad, but that's how I and many others interpreted what you said.
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you said nothing about Kate being unselfish, from your comments its gathered that once again, she's self motivated, not doing something for someone else. You're making her out to be what they said about Sawyer; his jump off the copter wasn't selfless; he was running from responsibility. Kate OWNED up to responsibility and did the right thing, and it killed her to do it. She hates that island, she loves Aaron, and it tore her up to give him up. She told Roger Linus "I have no children".
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She told Claire's mum about going back to find Claire.
Made it sound quite noble really, but really her going back was about her. Kate has been running for a long time.
This issue of perspective i.e. Kate looking noble, but in reality is doing it from fear is of course comparable to Sawyer, jumping out of the helicopter, we originally saw it as saving the other Losties, now Cassidy brings up the point and Sawyer confirms that he was afraid to be a father and a partner of Kate's. -
Kate ALREADY knew Ben was behind the mysterious Aaron-threats, because she told Cassidy that Jack and the rest are going back to the island. She learned it was Ben when Jack told her they're going back. She gave up Aaron AFTER that. And she lost Aaron BEFORE that. If I'm wrong on the timing, just call me a HEROES fan, that will hurt me pretty deep :( heh
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So Kate kidnaps a kid who isn't hers, leaves the mother behind, and then decides to fix that... what is she running from in that scenario? Continuing a lie and playing Aaron's mother, who isn't her kid? And leaving Claire in the dust? That's the "responsible noble" thing she's running from? Really?
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I thought the animation had something to do with Poltergeist II, where the guy pukes up the worm demon from the tequila, but that might be pushing it. All I know is my 4 year old son was watching it behind my back and didn't want me to scroll away from it - he likes the "funny cartoons with that guy." Yeesh - I need to stay off AICN when my kids are around.
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... I liked this week's episode, because it did a couple of interesting things. It positioned the 815 passengers to have the upper hand on Ben (he doesn't remember certain key facts... and either doesn't know that he actually murdered his father or has long been too dissociated to grasp what that means). It also allowed Kate to begin a search for redemption and Jack a chance to take Sawyer's advice and simply "think." Not surprisingly, when given the time to plot things out, he can be veeeeery intentional. The Hurley/Miles comedy hour was also pretty good... just as long as this doesn't become an on-going thing (a simply Hurley is good, a stupid Hurley is not). Also... at this point, I've become even more convinced that Aaron (and at least one other kid we've seen to-date) is all grown-up and on the "future" island with Locke, Caesar, Ilana and Ben.
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The rules of LOST time travel have been established. However...Desmond is a 'variable'.
Meaning, while he is bound by the TIME travel restrictions...he is NOT bound by his CONSCIOUS travel abilities. Locke made him special when he trashed the Apple II Plus in the Swan...and forced him to turn that fail safe key and set off a huge magnetic pulse in his own face that was so powerful it ripped an airliner into 3 pieces.
Please, Cherry...you'll enjoy the show more if you just sit back and enjoy 'the ride'. By the tone of your recent posts, I can tell you are MORE than a little frustrated by what's going on with LOST at the moment.
I don't know if it's trying your patience...or if you feel LOST has jumped the Dharma Shark by taking this current path...and you are just trying to stab holes in it any way you can...cuz...well, you're pissed off at it right now.
My advice. Relax...step back...take a breath...stop over-analyizing...just try to let the story evolve. There's SO many time travel questions that are NOT answered completely yet...it's NOT black and white...there will be gray areas...and, I'm telling you, those are there for a reason.
Your patience WILL be rewarded...everything will become more and more clear as the story unfolds.
If you've LOST your patience with LOST...perhaps you need to take on a show like 'CSI'...or 'Medium'...that have nice tidy little mysteries that all get wrapped up in 60 minutes every week. LOST is a 'long haul' show. If your not in for the long haul...
Perhaps you are in the wrong talkback? I hope not...but it's really starting to sound like you are. -
"He'll have no memory of what happened." is a cheap trick. I could totally buy that Ben knew who Syaid and Co. were when he got thrown into the Swan Prison in Season 2. All he does is lie! And he knew everything about these people! Anyway, my guess is that Kid Ben gets his island "rebirth" as Evil Ben, then he's hanging with the Others/Hostiles until the Losties time-warp out of there, conveniently allowing Ben to come back, spend the next 20 years as a DHARMA Janitor / Ohters Deep Throat Mole and then kill everybody in the purge. That makes sense, I just wish they hadn't thrown out the memory wipe bit. It was cool to see Miles and Hugo have a time-travel discussion that everyone has been having. Great ep, I liked Kate's flashbacks (forwards, whatever) giving her an emotional reason for saving Ben (The flashbacks are important for character's actions to have resonance), it was just that little memory part that irked me.
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Apr 02, 2009 8:13:03 PM CDT
Oh, and why did Richard's clothes/hairstyle change over the year
by tallboy66
Yeah, I know in S.5 he's been all prim and proper, but in Ben's S.3 flashback (Man Behind the Curtain), he was all scraggly and long haired and wearing the standard "Others" rags (in the early 70s when Ben first showed up, and in the early 90s when the purge happened). More of the Others' spirit-gum / hobo clothes / pirate theatrics? That's the best No Prize explanation. Real explanation: they haven't thought about that minute a detail back in the heady days of Season 3.
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For Episode S5E12! http://tinyurl.com/dgub9z
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She isn't "running" from that, she can not deal with her insecurity and fear that because Aaron is not biologically hers, he will be taken away, and she doesn't deseve to look after him. Through the lawyers, Ben helps drive this to get her back on the island.
We have seen throughout this series that most if not all the characters were "running" from something that brought them to the island, at least the guys from flight 815. We then saw that for the O-6 when they got off the island, things didn't go well for them, they hadn't yet addressed their fears, what they were running from and of course those fears came back. -
There are many TV series such as Quantum Leap, The Prisoner and Life On Mars (both UK), that were written with a definite ending in mind. These series, like others, unfortunately were not given the "breathing room" to fully develop their eventual ending in the way the writers wanted to.
Quantum Leap was hankered by poor ratings in it's penultimate season and was thus forced to end prematurely. The Prisoner, whilst it was decided that the series would end at the time it did, could not afford to keep the same writers throughout the series as would be the situation today. The writer of Life On Mars (UK) had wanted give the series more episodes (amazingly only a handful more) but the BBC were too strict in their programme scheduling.
Thank god that Lost has not fallen victim to such travesties or we would all have been deprived of a true TV gem.
I would like to say at this point that it is not my intention to offend anyone who has posted any message on Lost; it's the reason I look at the talkback after every episode. The guesswork and theories have always been the best part of enjoying Lost. The friends I know that watch the show all check AICN for talkback and we chat about the theories ourselves.
Sometimes, however, I chuckle to myself at the expressed need by some talkbackers that feel the need to predict EVERYTHING. At some point in the Lost-future, we will know everything that the writers want us to know and on that day we will all sit back and feel as though we've been part of something special (a truly great and epic journey).
Anyway, back to the reason I posted this message. How good has Season 5 been so far?!!
I personally think that the rewards in this episode were fantastic, if only that they were in the final few minutes!! "Ellie", "Charles" and the temple entrance made me punch the air with excitement!! Previously my fave moment of the series has been the look of anguish and terror on Ben's face as he turned the donkey wheel (it still is), and when we find out why he was so afraid and fraught about leaving the island it's going to be part of the reason we all love this show.
I every great story there's the villain we love to hate. He's Ben. Right there in all his glory. There's a reason we're being shown his life from beginning to end (?) and that is because he is OUR hero. Not the hero of the characters because he is a killer, but he's OUR hero because he loves being on that isalnd as much as we do.
This episode showed us the real beginning if Benjamin Linus. If only the beginning, that's good enough for me.
Bring it on. -
Said earlier about this and agree with you. Seemed too blunt for Lost.
For me it would have been better for a later episode in which Ben and someone else (maybe Sayid) interact and speak with him about his memories of those events, perhaps Ben providing a vague answer that leaves the possibility open that he could remember and is just being tactical. -
... but don't you love the fact that we can now understand why Ben lies about his past (e.g. his line that his mother "taught" him how to read)? He seems to know that the 815 survivors are tied to his past, but doesn't get the full grasp of how. In response, he tells them lie after lie in order to manipulate them, and to find whatever truth he's been looking for. This may also help explain the rabid enthusiasm he displayed when he first saw their plane crashing to the island. Strange thing about the island is that the longer this story goes on, the more we see that it's trying to help each of the key characters find their way, so to speak...
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Your voice sounds like sexman on filmdrunk.com. That haircut is early 90s and your face has too much fat on it. Not cool linking us to a dumb Jack Ryan dvd review. No one cares.
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It's a misdirection.
Richard was already laying the groundwork with the D.I. that "he won't remember anything" for a reason. He's already prepping the D.I. not to expect Ben to 'be normal'...but I don't think it's because he doesn't remember anything...it's because he will have a NEW history when he comes out of that temple.
So when he says "My mom taught me to read"...people will just think "That's lil loopy, Ben...Sure kid...your dead mom taught you to read!"...
Alpert will have already prepped lil Ben for his ascention to become the new 'Leader' of the Hostiles...to REPLACE the OLD one...Charles Widmore...who will soon be 'exiled' from the island forever....with Richard & 'older' Ben's help.
It's not that Ben will be 'Mind Wiped'...it's just, he'll have NEW memories....to prepare him for his 'future'.
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When Ben first met Richard...it was 1973. In 1954, Richard was the LEADER of the Others...and a young Charles Widmore a mere 'foot soldier', who was at odds with Alpert's handling of Faraday, Charlotte and Miles...and later John Locke.
It would seem to me that Widmore became more and more infuriated with Alpert's leadership. And possibly, with the help of a similarly pissed off Ellie, caused a coup, ousting Richard from his leadership position and taking over control of 'the hostiles'.
Alpert (and possibly his 2nd & 3rd in command) was cast out...or, possibly escaped certain death by Widmore and had been living like a nomad on the island for quite some time...without a change of clothes and a razor when he met Ben in '73.
Now it's 1977...5 years have passed...and obviously Richard has restored himself as a member of the others...Perhaps he had some help from a little fellow named Jacob to do this.
But, whatever the case...He no longer cares what Charles & Ellie thinks...cuz he just carried his 'savior' Ben into the temple. -
So when Alpert says "he won't remember any of this" in the SAME episode that Hurley asks Miles why older Ben doesn't remember Sayid shooting him, you interpret it as "dude, of course he'll remember all this stuff, it just means he'll get new memories!" Really? So when you hear "you won't remember any of this" you're thinking "ahh, yes, I will remember all of this, but just have memories added in.." ?? Really dude, I'm not trying to be a dick... but comeon, you're better than this.
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questioning (like old Jack). I may not agree with everything you say, but you keep bringing up interesting points.
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Anyone else wanna give it a shot?
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Probably on any other show I would say thats an apologists explanation for some poor writing, but will give them the benefit of the doubt...for now.
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I think Kate is a cunt, seriously.With all the knowledge she has of Ben, she still saves his life. I'm sure if Hitler was an infant, she'd find food to feed him... or not and cause him to be a misanthropic dictator.I dunno, but this latest episode made me mad. At least I like Jack more for his 'fuck it' attitude, but I must say that Sayid is a piss-poor hitman, you always shoot them in the chest AND the head.
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the Island then he is always more or less the second in command and in charge of picking number one. He most likely put Charles/Ellie in power then soured on them like he did with Ben for whatever reason, setting the scene for Ben.
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do you see what I mean about you thinking you're the authority on LOST? Reread your post to me. I didn't ask for your advice. I didn't ask you to recommend a show to me that you think is more my speed. It's fans like you that are making me sick of this show. Because you think you have all the fucking answers. No one else on here acts like you. You're so fucking arrogant. In fact read your posts that aren't addressed to me. How about the one that starts "Trust me". You're constantly explaining the show to people. And the fact that some people thank you makes me want to puke. You don't know any more than anyone else about how this show is going to turn out so what makes you think that you can tell people who have seen the same number of episodes as you what's going to happen or what anything means, or that anyone's going to be rewarded? Clearly you didn't understand the first time that I told you to get over yourself. So I won't bother a second time.
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He never talked to John or Ben about the Wheel....but he says, "When Ben turned that wheel"....When Ben was turning the wheel he was back at the camp. I don't think Daniel even knew there was a "Wheel"
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Apr 02, 2009 10:05:57 PM CDT
Yo, Brody, wasn't Alpert raggedy-ass in the 90s Purge too?
by tallboy66
Been awhile since I watched the "Man Behind the Curtain" episode, but I think Alpert in the 90s purge (after he took off his gas-mask) looked the same he did in 73. Shaggy hair, messed up clothes, unshaven, etc. etc. Not that I dispute what you're saying, it sounds kind of cool, I just think the easier explanation is that he was indulging the standard Others-"Hobo Wear" that they usually do when they're out and about.
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You're an idiot, Dum Guy.
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I think the other Losties would have explained it to him. Plus, Locke told them it started with the Orchid. He may have explained the wheel.
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He was wearing Others' hillbilly clothes, yes, but he was NOT shaggy. He was only shaggy in 1973, and he was wearing an entirely different outfit- not the Banana Republic Richard we've seen lately, and not the Others' hillbilly clothes either. It was like a 70's pirate look. He had shaggy hair, and was kinda clean-shaven.
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Mr. Zeddemore's new Lost podcasts over at www.mymavra.com. In case anyone doesn't know, that's the website all the AICN talkbackers started.
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Didn't know you where a big Hitler fan.
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I agree with you.
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That bugged me too. And Vader, what other Losties have seen the wheel? Ben and Locke, and Christian I suppose. Hell, Locke hadn't even seen the wheel when he was talking about the Orchid, so he couldn't have told them 'off-screen' then.
I've justified it in my mind that they HAVE been there for three years, and we know for a fact from the first scene that during this time they were there was when the Orchid was dug; he probably knew because the DI probably knew. Now, how HURLEY would have ANY idea what he was talking about (unless, again, explained off-screen during a continuation of their discussion), I have no answer. -
Of this season, that is.
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Its the fact that you can't seem to wrap your head around the idea of a woman wanting to save a child, no matter what he'll grow into. Besides, Kate probably doesn't wholly subscribe to the idea that the future can't be changed, as that's a really heady concept to believe. As if being back in the 70's wasn't weird enough. The idea that whatever you're going to do has already happened... well, some pple are too proud to believe it.
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People keep asking why the people in the past (Ben, Rousseau,Richard etc.)don't remember or recognise the people from the plane who've gone back to the past (Sayid, Jin etc )when they meet them again in the future. Nobody's brought up an easy explanation. If you met someone briefly when you were in your teens or twenties and then met them again briefly 30 or some odd years later, would YOU remember them that vividly? There were people at my 10 year high school reunion that I had ALREADY forgotten spending time with. Granted, none of them ever SHOT me back then or DISAPPEARED right in front of me and then REAPPEARED months or years later, but still. The longer LOST has gone on, the more we realize that HUNDREDS of people have come and gone on this island over the years. The people from the plane had trouble keeping track of EACH OTHER in their own time frame. It was an ongoing joke in the early seasons that our main characters occasionally forget the names of the other survivors who live right down the beach from them and stand around in the background every time they used to have a meeting. When Locke met Richard Alpert on the island was he thinking to himself "Hmmm. You look exactly like a mysterious stranger who came to see me 4 decades ago. And you haven't changed a bit." Why would he? It was just someone who interrupted his TV watching one night. And we're never going to know what Ben knows or doesn't know or remembers or doesn't remember until the Series Finale. If then.
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Sorry, Tallboy...was talking on the phone and trying to type with one hand!
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Huzzah!
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But, that is why I think she is a cunt, because she doesn't seem to realize that some kids might be better off dead than growing up... or at least other people would be better off from them dying.I actually have more of a problem with Sayid doing a half-ass attempt of killing a twelve year old. The guy was in the frickin military, and he can't kill an unarmed kid!!!Oh, I hate Ben, so that is one reason I didn't like how things worked out. I think if somehow Ben died in the past and still lived in the future, that would have been more of a mind bender.
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Fate made sure Sayid didn't shoot Ben in the head. Made him feel comfortable enough or guilty enough to not bother shooting him in the head.
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if ben wasn't supposed to die the island wouldn't let Sayid, someone who isn't even supposed to be there blow his 10 year-old brains out.
Kinda like Micheal not being able to kill himself :P -
The fact that he wasn't truly professional in killing Ben, i.e. no attempted follow up shot to the head for me, said that Sayid isn't 100% cold, or 100% certain of what he was doing, he was a little conflicted.
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...that I've been kicking around for a little while, with all the talk about Kate running and why people came back.
Everyone who left the island saw their life turn into a literal worst possible scenario, to the nth degree:
JACK became his father, but wasn't just a drunk--he we a druggie, too.
KATE couldn't run, but even worse--she was a horrible mother (little bit of a stretch, I know. But c'mon, when she dropped that kid's hand this episode I said, 'You're fucking KIDDING me' out loud. I really thought that's how she lost him.)
SAYID started hurting people again, but moreso--he started killing. For Ben, the man he tortured and hated!
HURLEY went back to the nuthouse, but after seeing all these dead folk--he actually thinks he MIGHT be crazy.
SUN became HER father--and doesn't even seem to realize it.
AARON was 'raised by another'--even though Kate KNEW who and where his grandmother was.
Heck, you could even go past the O6--
LOCKE failed his mission, thinking he truly wasn't special--and then he got killed, by BEN!
BEN (as we've seen from the previews for next week) changed the rules--and then John came back!
LAPIDUS actually DID wind up being the pilot of a plane headed to the island--and we all remember what happened to the pilot, yes?
WALT lost his dad--figuratively AND literally.
DESMOND's the odd man out, but considering he might be 'special' in some regard, that might be the reason. Also, I'm not feeling so good about who Ben (again, in the preview for next week) might have been pointing that gun at on the dock. (PLEASE don't kill Penny, please please PLEEZE)
SO! If all of these 'Worst Case Scenarios' happened to those who left the island, maybe in coming BACK we'll see a 180, a 'Best Case Scenario' for all of these characters--already we've seen:
JACK is not only accepting his destiny, he's putting his full faith in 'the island'--he's become a man of faith.
KATEis not only finding her motherly instincts, she's finding a goal--she's stopped running FROM things and is now running TO something (Claire)
BEN, from the preview for next week, is not only accepting his faults and misdeeds--he's actively pursuing judgement for them. (A kinder, gentler Ben? Maybe, regaining his innocence?)
So then what about everyone else? 'Cause when you look at Sayid, what's his big reward--getting lost in the jungle after failing to kill baby Hitler, err...Ben? Or is there another destiny waiting for him out in that jungle?
I dunno...just me rambling. -
Well Sayid knew that Dharma had been called and was coming any minute. Also that wasn't the first time that Sayid shot someone and they ended up surviving. (Keemy)
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was...in hindsight...it seemed pretty ridiculous that Ben...the 'leader of the Others'...would put himself in such a risky proposition as getting himself captured by Rousseau, and subsequently get imprisoned and brutally tortured by the Losties. I remember writing "why would Ben risk getting himself KILLED at the hands of the very people he has been kidnapping and terrorizing since 815 crashed on his precious island?"...I mean...Danielle shot him with a frickin arrow, fer cryin out loud! How did he KNOW he wouldn't get himself killed?
Um...back to the theory that Ben and possibly Widdy have advanced knowlege of their fates. He knew all along he would not be killed by Sayid in the Swan...or by Ana Lucia...or by Locke...or by Jack...or even by Danielle's trusty, non-lethal arrow.
He knew because he knows he lived past that point in time in the future!
ACK! My head hurts! Could that mean he was able to lie and cheat and manipulate the Losties so much, because no matter how much he fucked with them...he knew Jack would fall out of the sky and STILL pull that pesky tumor out of his body when Ben needed him to.
It's fucked up is what it is!
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What do you base your theory that Ben and Widmore have advanced knowledge of the far future? There's the conversation they had where he told Widmore he couldn't kill him, but could that also be because Widmore's gone through the same Other-carnation (can't even remember who I stole that from...thanks, though!) li'l Ben's about the go through? Maybe they can't be killed...by each other?
The reason I ask is at the end of this last episode, Ben seemed GENUINELY surprised that John was there, or alive, or both. I can see Ben having advanced knowledge or 815ers, and getting off the island. But now that he's come back...I don't think he's got a Future Timeline Playbook anymore. And I base this on the fact that anyone who went back in time, as of right now, only lived through the timeline up to Ajira 316 coming to the island. How would he have anymore advanced knowledge of the future? Any other theories/proof? -
Is he like Desmond ?
Does he think he can change the future, i.e. the death of Alex, why wouldn't he have got Smokey going earlier if he knew that could happen and why would he be so emotional about it. Or did he see a future where she lived, and when it didnt happen that way is thats why it was against the rules ? -
Apr 03, 2009 12:18:13 AM CDT
Pa - just read your blog, first time I had seen the word GILF
by miyamoto_musashi
On that article by Jennifer Godwin, describing Claire's mum as a GILF.
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I think that in the temple a few dormant smokies are buried in there. When awaken by Richard they take over a human body. Some of the smokies are drones/protectors like the ones which may have taken over the French crew.
Some of the other smokies are leaders and they live in Widmore, Richard, Jack's Dad -
We know that some people don't follow the 'rules' and can change things to an certain degree, but some things must happen anyway, i.e. the hobbit death.My thing, that bothers me, is that some people can change the 'rules'.So, I wonder if the whole thing isn't "Time Travel", but it is a change in dimensions (which would bring a whole different paradigm in LOST thought... maybe Cloverfield is connected to LOST?)I still say kill baby Hitler when you have the chance, at least my ancestors where alive despite his existence.
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To answer your question, yes Alpert would be thinking that Locke looked exactly like some mysterious stranger who visited him decades before. Don't give the writers an easy out by saying no one remembers anyone else cause they only met once or twice years ago. That is dumb, way too dumb and lazy for a show this good and smart.
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I could be fulla shit (as some have pointed out). Perhaps he was so surprised to see Locke alive cuz Charles broke another damn rule! But, I tend to lean towards Miyamoto's explanation...that somehow...somewhere Widmore and Ben got a special trip into the future...at least 2007...that made Ben so frickin confident that he could terrorize Jack & Co so mercilessly and STILL expect the surgeon to want to perform a surgery on him.
Instead of just walking out of the jungle...extending his hand and saying..."Hey, name's Ben Linus...let me know how my people here can help you guys get adjusted...Mi island, su island! By the way...any spinal surgeons survive the crash? I kinda need a tumor removed". Why the fake beards and spirit gum routine? The kidnapping and killing? Wouldn't you WANT to get off on the right foot with the 'leader' of this group you need to save your life?
Personally...I REALLY hope I'm fulla shit on this one. Maybe he doesn't know EVERYTHING...like...he didn't know what year he landed in after he turned the wheel...but he knows SOME things.
That Miles question has my head spinning, too. "After Ben Spun the wheel..."...Ok...Ben was ALONE when he spun the wheel...there were no witnesses. Locke had no idea what the hell was down in that frozen hole. And there were no witnesses (save Christian) when Locke gave the wheel a spin. When and who would have been able to tell Miles about the wheel? Faraday? Did he and Faraday have a discussion about this off camera? That's the only person I can think of who might know how Ben made the island move..and started the time flashes.
But it seems odd that we wouldn't be privy to that scene prior to Miles so off handedly tossing 'the wheel' line out there. -
Get thee back onto the island.
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...in 10 or 15 minutes...or an hour...or two...crap...
ANYWAY, Cheif...this is the first time I remembered to post this...and I have you to thank:)
I have said before that this island/ship is the answer to all ancient mythology. Now, some people may not believe that the early parts of the bible are myth, but there is a pattern of the exact same stories popping up in a myriad of different cultures...and the Garden of Eden is one of those myths.
Why were Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden? Sure, sure...they ate from the Tree of Knowledge...but that's NOT the reason they were booted. The were given a life of blissful ignorance...a utopia. In 'other' words...they were innocents. They 'Lost' that when they acquired knowledge. Ben is about to be reborn into a life of knowledge...thus losing his innocence.
Is it that far of a stretch to believe that he is going to be infused by smokey with the only true knowledge which is important in life? As the philosophers repeated, "Know Thyself, as it is only with this knowledge, that you may truly know OTHERS"...
Hope this gets your attention Cheif...and thanks for reminding me...so put away your Time Travel Chalkboard...and put your mind to the grindstone...
P.S. Chime in if you are a hater...let's tussle... -
Which characters have actually traveled FORWARD in time? Even Desmond's ability seems to involve his PAST Self and PRESENT Self switching places somehow? He never went into an actual FUTURE that his PRESENT self hasn't already experienced. And his precognitive visions aren't always accurate to the way the events play out. We've seen alot of jumping around between Past and Present and if Ben and Locke jumped ahead in time when they left the island (I'm starting to lose track) they've stayed wherever they ended up. If anyone has traveled beyond the current year on the show (2007?) and somehow gone back to their own Past or their own Present with knowledge of their own FUTURE, I haven't seen it. Or I've forgotten. Assuming that Ben or Widdemore or even Richard has that ability is a pretty big leap. We've seen the Present Desmond remember something the Present Daniel told him in the Past. We've seen the Present Daniel remember something Desmond told him when he was "unstuck" in the Past. But we haven't seen a FUTURE anybody tell themselves or anyone else something that the Show itself hadn't already demonstrated. Even when the "Present" Desmond met Farraday's Mother when he was trying to change his own Past, it wasn't some weird FUTURE version of that character going back to make sure Desmond did what he was supposed to do. And if it WAS, she didn't tell him what was going to happen beyond his (or her?)PRESENT. She told him he couldn't change what HAD happened in his (and Her?)own PAST. She seemed to have exactly the same ability he had and to be more in control of it. But once again, that would be her "Present" Self relaying knowledge through her "Past" Self. Not some "Future" Self we have yet to see. I may very well be wrong about this by the time the show ends. Maybe Farraday's mother is "The Variable"? But I have yet to see someone on LOST who knows their own destiny, much less someone else's."Whatever Happened, Happened." The FUTURE hasn't happened. Yet.
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Yeah I was trying to figure that out also. Im guessing that its Texting abreviation, not sure what it means though.
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allowing himself to get caught.
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Apr 03, 2009 1:35:23 AM CDT
Desmond is the only one who is not enslaved by space and time
by dapper swindler
He is the "variable" as we will see in 12 days.
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One thing that frustrates me is that Sawyer and co. have been with Juliet for 3 years now and she's in love with him. Why hasn't she opened up about who the hell the Others actually are. Why are they the way they are and what is their motivation? She presumably knows some of these things--shouldn't she have shared by now?
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Actually your example REVERSED my example. It WOULD make sense that an adult Richard Alpert who never seems to age would remember interacting with an adult Locke or an adult Sawyer if he met them three decades later. But it would also make sense that a teenage Ben who is just as self absorbed as the adult Ben might have FORGOTTEN interacting with an adult Sawyer and an adult Jack and some other Dharma people who were just like all the other Dharma people he eventually PURGED. Little Ben isn't hanging around on the dock welcoming new arrivals. Once again: there are dozens if not hundreds of people coming and going on this island in the 70's. And apparently prior to that. Ben shows no interest in them. He's interested in Sayid because he thinks he's an Other. And I have no problem believing that the PTSD and generally mentally damaged Rousseau they met years later might have decided that the Jin she met who was there one minute and not there the next might have just been another example of the Island messing with her head. Remember: the Jin she met in the past spoke ENGLISH! :^P
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Or he becomes it. Just a wild guess. Kate is hot, Juliet is ok, but the pursed lip thing is really annoying.Rousseau had the same thing. Really annoying.
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Farraday's Mother already TOLD Desmond about his future...unless you are forgetting that she was the woman in the jewelry store when Desmond turned the hatch key and was (mentally) thrown into his past.
She knew all about his future and told him as much...which is why he ended up throwing Penny's ring into the river.
So either she has been to the future...or was told about it by someone who HAD been to the future. Sorry... -
Religious mumbo jumbo? I'd rather LOST go with flyin' frickin DeLoreans...than go all 'burning bush'/'talkin snakes' on me!
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You don't wanna know what a GILF is. It's a MILF...just a lil older.
If you don't know what a MILF is...man...you REALLY are not using the internet correctly! -
Once again, she told PRESENT Desmond who was trying to Change his PAST, that he Couldn't. The PAST happened. And the PRESENT was going to stay the same. She never said "Oh by the Way, eventually Penny will rescue you. And Ben Linus, who you've never met will kill Penny to get revenge on her father Charles Widdemore. Who may or not also be the father of my son Daniel Farraday who you're going to meet the next time you return to the past. And then..." She didn't tell Desmond anything he didn't already know. She REMINDED him that things were going to happen the way they ALREADY had. Not exactly the same as predicting the future....
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Thought it was Gran I'd Like to Fuck,pardon my French. Yeah the Internet is being used the right way at my place, my wife smiles at me when she sees retube .com high up in the cache
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HOWEVER...cuz Jabba's just GOT to get the last word...John, Benjamin, Jacob, CHRISTIAN...all's they need is a Moses and they can part the damn island and find the other two hatches.
Lost has been neck deep in the Good Book since episode one...didn't you notice John in the crucifixion pose with Ben washing his feet.
You ARE familiar with The Bible...aren't ya...jeez...sometimes I believe that some of you posters are penguins...pecking at an automated keyboard...
And I wasn't referring to you Cheif:o...burn... -
Maybe I'm wrong about all this. Maybe our heroes spend lots of quality time with Ben hoping he'll be nicer to them in the Future that's Already Happened. Maybe Ben and Hurley become Dharma Pals. Which is why Ben sent Hurley back to the Beach and kept the people who brought him to Alpert so he could thank them by torturing them. Maybe Widdemore is Voldemort or The Master and Ben is Harry Potter or Doctor Who and they've been fighting a never ending battle across Time, Space and Dimension for millenia.Maybe they told us they're done with Libby's story because they don't want us to figure out that Libby was actually a Sydney Bristow Double Agent who was working for Ben AND Charles. She was Widdemore's Mole in the Loony Bin, keeping an eye on Ben's Dharma Pal. And she was Ben's Deus Ex Machina giving Desmond a Boat so he could beat Widdemore to the Island and Ben would have yet another way to piss off his nemesis. See, I can spitball this stuff till the cows come home. Doesn't make it True until the show says it is...
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in The Book of Frogurt, "Ye who fails to push the button, shall be cast from the island...er...Eden, only to be murdered by a bug eyed dude with a foot fetish in Los ANGELes and be resurrected to lead the Others unto the promised hatch."
So it is written...so it shall be done. -
in this gallery show. scroll down about 4/5 of the way for a great hurley painting. a lot of really cool pop art in here
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If you understood what has NOW been widely accepted as my LINEAR Lost time theory...you would know that Desmond was not reliving events in his life...he was there changing his path. He was there LONG after that actual time in his life...which precludes how she could have possibly know what choices he was going to make. He took the damn ring...didn't he?
A - Desmond meets Faraday's mom
B - Desmond blows off Penny
C - Desmond goes in the hatch
D - the losties blow the hatch
E - Desmond detonates the hatch
In Lost time travel, Desmond met her twice...the first time he walked away. Went back...and tried to buy the ring. His timeline is BCDEA. "A" didn't happen until AFTER he blew up the hatch...therefore, Daniel's mom HAD to have know of future events...unless you believe that Faraday's mom can jet around mentally as well...which is patently ridiculous... -
How does Miles know about the FDW? Two possibilities. 1- Widmore hired him originally. He could have known the island schematics before going there. 2- He's living in the same time with the people making the Orchid. Maybe he's seen something by the time three years have passed.
I thought the better question would be why didn't Hurley ask what freaking wheel he was talking about. Also, the stuff about Desmond being the variable is a bit presumptuous. Isn't he "the constant", brutha? He can't be both. Love the talkback, guys.
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About the hemmorage inducing "LETTERS OF DOOM"
Great post again...and I believe the promised hatch is filled with all the people who died on the island...with Shannon pimpin' out her brotha...Studio 54 style...yeah...
I mean, "Yea...God rained fire upon the twin hatches of Sodom and Ghonnerea...as there wasn't a single righteous man amoungst them.
"Yea, however the music WAS righteous...and was bestowed on the prophet Desmond. Thus smiting the lowly weakness of The Driven Shaft." -
But why is MY theory that the PRESENT Daniel's Mom has the exact SAME ability as the PRESENT Desmond but has been doing it longer and can actually control where she goes and who she talks to in her OWN PAST or PRESENT and sensed that "Past" Desmond had gained a similar talent and was trying to misuse it any more "patently ridiculous" than the alternate possibility that the FUTURE Daniels' Mom somehow physically or mentally went BACK in TIME just to contact Desmond's PAST Self Somehow KNOWING that He was Occupied by His PRESENT Consciousness trying to CHANGE his and her's and EVERYBODY ELSE's PAST & Told Him Just enough to Get Him to Do What He'd ALREADY DONE in the First Place? That theory is even more convoluted than mine and has much less support from WHAT WE'VE BEEN SHOWN UP TO NOW. Once again: We've seen these people travel between the PRESENT and the PAST, both physically and mentally. Their PRESENT can give them knowledge of their own or someone else's PAST. We have YET to see someone travel into their own FUTURE and then come BACK from their own FUTURE with information that nobody else has yet.Including the Audience.
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"No, Rouseau told Sayid that that the Others had kidnapped Alex. Later she confirmed that it was Ben." --- Rousseau also told him she'd never seen any of The Others. And, although she was adamant he was one of them when he got caught in a net, she showed no recognition of him being the one who stole her kid. If she did do you really think she would have just walked away and left Sayid to it? As for the bit about the deleted scene, I only count stuff that's actually part of the finished show. I think (might be wrong) there's been a few over the years that were eventually contradicted by later developments in the show? To me the error still stands, unless there's a hella good explanation for it in the next ep. I suggest a convenient line by Ben "she won't remember any of this" - that ought to sort it all out.
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I have absolutely no recollection of Danielle independently confirming Ben as the kidnapper at any point before the losties practically wave some Maury DNA results in her face. I could be wrong but I only recently went through the whole show again and can't remember that. Also, if it did happen that in itself would be a continuity error, going back to the bit where said she'd never seen an Other.
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Apr 03, 2009 4:13:38 AM CDT
I loved Hurley pointing out that Ben should have known Sayd
by the penultimate gunslinger
shows the writers know exactly what they're doing - they're saying "yeah we know it doesn't make too much sense at the moment, but you'll get your answers!" and I have every faith that we will. For most of the big questions anyway.
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When Desmond's PRESENT (2004)consciousness originally flashes back to his PAST (1995-1996) body he is NOT trying to alter his PAST. He thinks his FUTURE/PRESENT "memories" are just hallucinations. He thinks his PAST IS his PRESENT. The PAST Eloise, who already has the same PRECOGNITIVE visions that the PRESENT Desmond has had since the Hatch blew up REALIZES that Desmond is not doing what he's SUPPOSED to DO. She doesn't have to travel back in time physically OR mentally to KNOW this. She just knows it. The Same way PRESENT post Hatch Explosion Desmond knows Charlie is going to die. She's more centered and attuned to her precognition than Desmond is. She's better at it than he is. But she hasn't necessarily BEEN to the FUTURE to gain this knowledge.Or travelled BACK to the PAST or PRESENT to reveal it. Why does this theory make sense? Because the PRESENT Eloise isn't any better at convincing the Oceanic 6 that they ALL have to go back to the Island than Desmond was at convincing Charlie he could see the FUTURE at first. If she was FROM the FUTURE or had BEEN to the FUTURE and COME BACK to ensure that the FUTURE HAPPENS and she WANTS them to go, and KNOW'S what's going to happen if they don't all go, why would she lie about NOT KNOWING. She told them flat out she DOESN'T know what will happen if they don't all go back. And if she was secretly trying to PREVENT them all from going, that didn't work EITHER.So,not to flog a dead horse, but there are ALWAYS more than one possible explanation for things we see on LOST. And the simplest, least convoluted explanations about things we've ALREADY been shown make more sense to me than constructing elaborate convoluted theories about things that haven't happened and may NEVER happen just so we can try to predict how it's all going to come together instead of just letting it be revealed to us episode by episode. I have no problem with Jabba's Linear Letter Jumbling. But HE has a problem in his own post because he can't decide WHY or HOW Eloise knows and he doesn't remember WHAT Desmond was trying to do or WHY he was trying to do it. And there's nothing wrong with that. I had to click over to lostpedia and re-read Desmond and Eloise's sections to refresh my own memory.
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So...who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. With flowing robes, grace, bald, striking. So..I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one. Big hitter, the Lama. Long! Into a 1000 foot crevice right at the base of this glacier! Do you know what the Lama says? "Gunga galunga. Gunga gunga da gunga." So we finish and he's going to stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama! "How about a little something, you know, for the effort?" And he says, "There won't be any money...but when you die, on your deathbed...you will receive total consciousness."
So I've got that going for me...
...which is nice.
*Richard Alpert saying that Ben would lose his innocence..take that to mean that by saving Young Ben..Ben actually dies and is reborn..and Young Ben will be entirely self aware of his entire life, everything that will occur from that moment he is '-reborn' on the island. He will be shown his life; Alpha to Omega. His whole life will 'Flash before his Eyes' and he will be confined to 'LIVE' by that revelation..what he can remember from that point is well..variable..Say you lived 40 years..how much do you remember of your life..and with how much specificity? Major events yes..but how much nuance? Now conjure you have the ability to remember the next forty years you are fated to live? hmmm.hmmm.hmmm..Judge Smails asks?
Thus he knows he can't kill Charles Widmore..because he didn't/doesn't kill Charles Widmore..who changed the 'rules' because Old Ben did/does not remember Alex being killed in his revealed and future remembered life...and now we have ourselves a ballgame..etc, etc..somewhere in the recesses of his remembered future memories..perhaps Ben has the itch of a future memory that he IS going to kill John Locke...he just can't recall how or when or why..hmmm. Kind of gives flavor to the "we can't do that, Michael" line from Beatrix Klugh..if you have to die to be reborn knowing the whole of your existence from that moment on..on the island..Speaks to how Ms. Hawking knows what she knows..what of Juliet? You have to feature that there are stages or levels to Otherdom.
*It would follow that 'The Variable' is not necessarily Desmond or Faraday..but rather who knows what is going to happen when..and Faraday's eidetic memory holds awesome possibilities there, da? Richard Alpert and perhaps 'Others' know/s 815 is going to crash..but apparently are limited by the 'rules' from either preventing or informing anyone of the event...because they didn't. Silliness..you have free will until you know and BELIEVE you don't...
*Of course, you know everyone has to die now...
*And this truly makes 'visiting the past'..hee..episodes all mindbendy, cause we know now that Sawyer was never in any danger from Pickett's bloodquest for revenge..etc, etc, etc..or was he? hmmm..hmmm..hmm.. -
I wondered how Miles would know about the Frozen Donkey Wheel too, so here's what I theorize: John Locke, while under the name Jeremy Bentham, went to visit Hurley and co. back in the US. Since he and Ben were the only 2 to actually see and move the FDW, Locke must have mentioned it to one of the O6 when explaining how he got off the island - probably Hurley. So Hurley, Jack, and Kate must have had some conversation with Miles before Hurley and Miles' BTTF chat in "What Happened, Happened" the other night. Therefore, Miles knows about the FDW - he had just found out from Hurley. Not much of a stretch there, and really the only way for Miles to know.
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One of those things about the whole "Killing Hitler" theories. If someone did go back in time and killed baby Hitler, would it have helped? WW2 never happened, the Holocaust avoided? Who is to say that something worse wouldn't have happened? Maybe an even MORE deadly leader would have taken his place, one more ruthless and despicable! It's like studying for a test (since I'm a school teacher) - I get kids that say "well, I didn't study and I still passed that test with an A" and I want to say "maybe if you'd studied you'd have gotten an A+, maybe that would've brought your overall grade up a notch and you would've gotten a better final grade in the class, and you would have brought your overall grade point up enough to get a scholarship." Or people that say "my dad smoked cigarettes every day and he lived to be 85" well - maybe he doesn't smoke and he lives to be 95! And now I'm rambling ... hope you get the idea.
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Guys, it isn't that hard. Locke was around Miles before Locke turned it (recall the flashes that happened before he turned it?) Just because you didn't see Locke explain it to Miles didn't mean it didn't happen. Miles had to understand why the flashes were happening.
And on Kate - she didn't save Ben because she "couldn't kill a child." She saved him because he is her best chance at finding Claire. Duh. -
Stranger Danger young Ben...Stranger Danger!
Look at the signs, carries a unconcious Ben away, states that he won't remember anything and that he'll loose his Innocence!
Then he brings him to some creepy place.
We need that guy from Dateline on the island, stat! -
So is Ben's list from season 2 the people who traveled back in time & were on the island in that present time (minus hurley, cus he didnt do anything important in the past?)
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Maybe he'll be back w/ some of those African Polar Bears?
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Why didn't she spend the last three years updating Sawyer et. al. on who the Others really were? She doesn't know. I'm willing to bet that she wasn't privy to their deepest secrets. She was still technically an "outsider" who was brought in to help solve a problem. I imagine she falls well outside needing to know most of the big reveals.
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as a possible way that they were able to tell Miles how it all went down. But we know it wasn't Hurley...unless he had ANOTHER visit to the big guy AFTER Abaddon spooked Hugo off...I think we saw most of his convo with Sayid, but Miles and Sayid have not interacted in 1977 yet. I guess it could have come from Kate...as we entered Locke & her's little chat in mid-stream in her kitchen. That leaves Jack...and we know their meeting didn't go into much detail...Christian was mentioned...but NOT the wheel.
I dunno...that's a pretty big matza ball hangin out there. Hope Damon & Carlton can explain Miles knowlege of the wheel somehow. There had to have been MORE contact than what we've seen between Locke & the O-6. Not to mention, the O-4 have only been in 1977 for a day and a half...and Miles has been running around a lot...putting out fires and what not....not much time for a "Hey, let's catch up" talk with any of them.
We'll see.... -
is that every speculation or theory creates more Questions than it does Answers. You guys are trying to figure out how Miles and Hurley know about Locke turning the wheel. You're watching a show that constantly fragments narrative by flashing back or forward to impart information. You're watching a conversation between someone who's been ON the Island for 3 years in the PAST and another person who's been off the Island for 3 years in the PRESENT (which ironically or not is still the PAST to the audience...My Brain Hurts.) And unless I've missed it, noone has mentioned that Miles can commmunicate with the DEAD, and not just the warm corpse of someone who died that day (Naomi) but the ghosts of people who've been dead for much longer.(the ghost in his initial flashback). He can sense bodies in the ground underneath him. (Danielle Rousseau). These people don't appear to him visually like they have to Hurley and some of the other characters. We never hear what they have to say. But Miles does. So if anyone buried anywhere on the Island at any time knew about the Donkey Wheel, Miles could potentially know about it also. If he walked over Nikki and Paolo or Boone and Shannen or whatever fragments of Dr. Artz were left when he went boom he might learn something. If he went anywhere near "Adam and Eve", he might even know who they are? He could have explored plenty of places on the Island during the 70's looking for more corpses to gain info from. Or maybe some other character told him in a scene we just haven't seen YET, which is the easiest, most obvious and least convoluted possible explanation.And just because Hurley hasn't done anything important in the past SO FAR doesn't mean he's not going to do something important in the FUTURE which is still the PAST even though it seems to effect the PRESENT blah blah blah. Hurley seems to have abilities of his own since Charlie and Ana Lucia have appeared to him to advise and protect him, and he definitely has a connection to the Island since he's had experiences with finding Jacob's Cabin that seemed to come as a surprise to Locke and Ben. Has Christian told Hurley anything? I forget. Who HASN'T he appeared to at this point? HaHa. Maybe Hurley is destined to lead the Others? Who the Hell Knows?
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I realize Miles has backwards talks with the dead...and somebody 6 feet under told him about a mythical wheel in the ground. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough...I'm just merely confirming we haven't SEEN that convo yet.
And perhaps sofaking is correct about Widmore telling him about the wheel...perhaps he told him he'd give Miles exactly $3.2 million dollars if he'd find it and turn it and bring Charles back there? All part of the fun of theorizing. -
that Miles talks to ghosts. We will probably see a Miles flashback when Christian or one of the other island's dead inhabitants explains things to Miles.
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Sorry, but I think you're wrong on Miles and the FDW theory. Locke knew he had to go down and fix things, but did he know WHAT he had to do? He hadn't seen the wheel before, and Ben hadn't told him what had to be done, did he? So did Locke know in advance what he was doing down there? I think not - Christian told him when he got down there.
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Okay so Christian really isn't dead just like Locke isn't dead anymore right??? Or is Christian still dead? What is the connection between Christian and Jacob (if any)? I know they haven't really told us but I'd like hear your theories (if your interested in sharing them). Also, with the events of the last two episodes shouldn't that affect the future Ben Linus? His dad shouldn't be dead now right or did the mind wipe of Ben keep everything the same in the future? Thoughts?
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I'm pretty fuckin sure we are going to see/have that explained to us in a flashback.
I for one, would like to see what transpired in the 3 years Sawyer and the gang did working themselves into the status they have in the DI.
And in that light, we should see what happened to Farraday. It's possible since they are all sticking together with their covers, Daniel learns more about what happened at the Orchard and keeps Sawyer & co informed.
The writers threw us a bone this week with the time travel exposition. So, I'm sure they know Miles wasnt there. And last we saw Farraday, he was in the Orchard.
Well, technically, we saw him in a DI jumpsuit....the time period storyline we are going thru currently. (cause I know we last really saw him was the night he saw Charlotte) -
#1: earlier in the season, we saw Danielle Roussau's French team go into the Temple and after the flash, we see them dead and attacking Danielle.
#2: Ben goes into the Temple, (carried) and Richard tells Sawyer & Juilet BEN will NEVER be the same. Going into that place changes you and it doesn't look like for the better.
In fact, going in there is probably the main reason he helps in the purge with NO REMORSE.
Ben will not remember the shooting, which is why he (supposedly) did not recognize Sayid in season 2. However he still knows his dad's abusiveness and about being part of the DI.
I do wonder how Sawyer and Jules will explain the healing of Ben. Horace is a smart guy and I cant imagine them not knowing how long they were gone. -
A Senate Subcommitee asking all the Characters WHAT did you know and WHEN did you know it! Haha. Miles is one of those characters who seems to know more than he's telling (He knew Michael wasn't Kevin Johnson, He seemed to know Charlotte had been on the Island before)but also seems genuinely shocked or confused about other things that happen (He didn't know Keamy was going to kill Alex, He didn't know the Oceanic 6 were going to come back). If he's Widmore's Wild Card he doesn't seem to be a very good one. Or like Ben, he's very good at doling out info only when he absolutely has to, or when he stands to gain from doing so. Portentous Voice: "His TRUE Agenda has YET to be REVEALED..."
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Thanks for hosting this Talkback dude, and for knowing all the answers to everyone's questions. I think you're SO awesome.
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... filled with changing character motivations brought on by absolutely nothing. Why doesn't Jack help Young Ben? Because the writers don't want him to. Why did Kate go back to the island and abandon her adopted son? Because the writers needed her to. LOST had been getting better, but now its terrible writers have ruined it again.
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Has become so complacent...playing second banana to Sawyer's LaFleur...He has hit the motherload of the spirit world on that island. I don't think Straume's just been playing dominoes with Hurley the past 3 years. I think he's also lured to just hang out there because of the island's mysteries.
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Would you do it? JOKE!
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or what?
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Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman...you know...so the Juice wouldn't get 'framed' for it...so...he could spend more time making 'Naked Gun' movies...and playin lotsa golf.
You know...instead of hunting down Nicole and Ron's killers and roughing up memorabilia collectors all day.
Wait...he's in JAIL? When did this happen? Oh, nevermind.
Well...I'd probably just kill Kevin Federline. THAT will change the world! -
Miles is a DHARMA sheriff. They get run of the place. DHARMA found the FDW before '77 (see Faraday flashback that kicked off S.5). So they security would probably know about the FDW because they would know about everything. They Also, Miles speaks to ghosts. He'd also know that way too. So, yeah, I'd go with the former instead of the latter.
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I'm of the belief that Kate hasn't changed her tune. If you really think she came back specificly for Claire, well I guess so. I think she came close to telling Claire's mom the truth; she has no confidence in her ability to take care of Aaron and she was overwhelmed by guilt over keeping him in the first place. Now, I'm not saying that her Claire sightings aren't feeding into her negative emotions, but the real reason she went back was to get to Sawyer. After watching her fawn over him for two straight episodes you would think this would be obvious. I mean, has she even mentioned Claire to anyone? She felt she was a failure as a mom and wanted to get away to the one person who really can't get all judgemental on her. Maybe the writers wanted to hold off on the subject until after showing this episode and I'm reading it wrong, but Kate doesn't seem to remember why she came back.
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Apr 03, 2009 2:09:52 PM CDT
A little late for April Fools but still funny
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
Or scary depending on your opinion.
M. Night Shyamalan (April Fools)
by Blue eagle islander at 12:47:00 AM
In a shockingly quiet press release yesterday, executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, revealed that the director of the series finale would be none other than acclaimed director M. Night Shymalan. The content of the finale still remains a secret, but Lindelof and Cuse stated that they wished to "get a hold" on the most important episode of next year, to make sure that everything goes "without a hitch."
Shyamalan, director of such films as The Sixth Sense, Unbreakable, and Lady in the Water says that he is more than up for the challenge, and will begin working with the producers as soon as his newest film, The Last Airbender, completes production. It is also rumoured that Shymalan's newfound experience with 3D (after working on Airbender) will be involved.
Shyamalan, an avid ''Lost'' fan, said that he was already working with Damon and Carlton on an early draft of the episode.
I have mixed feelings about this. We could end up with something Sixth Sense-ish, or something like Lady in the Water. Only time will tell, and hopefully it mainly remains in Darlton's hands.
UPDATE: It's an April Fools joke. Don't worry, the finale is in safe hands. :)
http://blog.lostpedia.com/2009/04/m-night-shyamalan.html
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I don't mean that Kate was neglectful or abusive. The fact that she saved the child is noble, but the fact that she then kept a child that wasn't hers for admitedly selfish reasons and then lived in constant fear that someone would take him from her in the same way...well that's not a healthy or truthful situation to raise a child. Simply put, after resucuing Aaron, everything Kate did was wrong on one level or another. The kid has a family, you know, and I don't remember anyone asking Kate to conveniently forget that when she returned.
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I love his movies. Screw the haters.
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Actually your correct, Danielle only said that it was the Others that kidnapped Alex. But in Maternity Leave Kate puts 2 & 2 together that Alex is the girl that the Others stole from Danielle. in Tricia Tanaka Is Dead she tells Danielle about the connection. Then in Log in to edit History Article Discussion Theory Through the Looking Glass Ben tells Danielle that Alex was her daughter that he had stolen.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Danielle -
I've seen all but Happening & Village.
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Definitely see The Village. It's drastically underrated. The Happening is good but the cast phones it in and hurts the film a little bit. Still enjoyable.
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None of the deleted scenes have ever been proved incorrect. in fact a lot of times and idea that is in a scene that gets cut usually surfaces again late in the season/series. Like for instance there was a delete scene where Sawyer is busting rock and asks Sawyer if he wants to know what he's building. Pickett tells Sawyer that they are building a runway. Later that idea is actually used when Juliet tells Sawyer that they were building an alien runway. Then later with Frank actually landing on it.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Deleted_scenes -
So Im looking forward to see how M. Knight handles it.
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So Sawyer from 2004 asks Sawyer from 1977 what they are building? Neat! But..which Sawyer did Pickett acknowledge...1977...or 2004?
Just f'in with ya, brutha.
Gotta say...M. Night lost me after Signs. Glad he's working on a story HE didn't come up with for once. -
Only had one bullet in it, taken from Jin. This is the official word from both Darlton and Sterling Beamoun, who played young Ben. Those guns are only for safety, not war, and are typically only loaded with one bullet. The guns are not designed for a standoff or extended attack. They don't need Jin or anyone of his rank staging a war, they just need him to keep the peace. Besides, Sayid shot him dead-on to where the heart should be, 90% accuracy. The kid actor is convinced the Ben that he was dies. Next week will show some kind of supernatural resurrection or possession or something akin, so all of us debating Sayid being a poor shot is sort of pointless and unnecessary.
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LOL. You've been exposed for the freaking idiots you are. Lost is the best show on TV right now. Period. End of Discussion. It's right up there with Rescue Me and Mad Men (which aren't on right now, though Rescue Me is coming soon).
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I think it's like here in the UK. Richard is the Queen (no decision-making power, job for life, no election process, doesn't answer to anyone). Then you have a Prime Minister (main decision maker, appointed via a process, ultimately answerable to the crown).
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I think the Other's Power Structure is set up like 'The Mob'...You got a Don, a consigliere, and family foot soldiers.
I think it's way more 'underworld' than the British hierarchy. -
From IMDB: Lost Bosses Eat Humble Pie
3 April 2009 12:10 PM, PDT
Lost TV bosses were forced to apologise to actress Rebecca Mader after blaming her for an error on the hit show.
Fans of the cult series flooded the internet with complaints after a recent flashback scene showed Mader's character Charlotte Staples Lewis in the 1970s - because a previous show had listed her date of birth as 1979.
According to the National Enquirer, Lost bosses Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof recorded a podcast shortly afterwards, in which they blamed Mader for the mistake.
The enraged actress struck back with a posting on her Facebook page, which allegedly read, "I just wanted to say that I Never changed my age on the set of Lost as Damon and Carlton accused me of on the most recent Lost podcast.
"Charlotte Lewis was Always meant to be 28 and born in 1979.
"They made a mistake. They are making it My fault. Not Cool."
Castmates feared the 29-year-old old Brit's outburst would jeopardise her job, but instead it forced an apology from Cuse and Lindelof.
They have now issued a statement that reads, "Rebecca is absolutely right and we apologize to both her and the entire fan community for screwing up the story. The mistake was Ours. Our first mistake was the timeline gaffe, but the much more significant one was wrapping Rebecca up in this when she had nothing to do with it. Not her fault on any level. It was our bad. One hundred percent." Strange and interesting development there. -
Loved the bomb he dropped on Kate. "You didn't like the old me Kate." Milo and Hurley going back and forth about time travel conundrums was great. Locke should have flipped Ben's bed over to wake him up. What is Richard's moisturizing regimen? I agree with some other TBers about him being a member of the Black Rock crew.
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Loved the bomb he dropped on Kate. "You didn't like the old me Kate." Milo and Hurley going back and forth about time travel conundrums was great. Locke should have flipped Ben's bed over to wake him up. What is Richard's moisturizing regimen? I agree with some other TBers about him being a member of the Black Rock crew.
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Loved the bomb he dropped on Kate. "You didn't like the old me Kate." Milo and Hurley going back and forth about time travel conundrums was great. Locke should have flipped Ben's bed over to wake him up. What is Richard's moisturizing regimen? I agree with some other TBers about him being a member of the Black Rock crew.
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Wow..thought we covered that one 2 talkbacks ago!!
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I don't recall hearing anything 2 weeks ago about Darlton apologizing, saying it was their fault, NOT Rebecca's. And I was here 2 weeks ago! Bizarre. Oh well, IMDB is just now reporting it.
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while we were nesting for 2 weeks in the LaFleur TB!! Lol!!
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WHo Miles Didn't learn it from:
Hurley - We saw all of the short convo between Hurley and Locke when Locke got back.
Jack - We saw his convo with Lock also.
Sawyer - He never knew what Locke had to do.
Faraday - He has never seen it.
So it just leaves Kate. We would have to assume he explained it to Kate(off screen), and Kate explained it to someone (offscreen). Thats too many off convos about this type of slip for this show....
Only other thought, maybe Widmore told him, since we dont have the complete history of Miles.
Also the only other person that knows about it is Ben, and he has only talked to Jack. and that convo would have had to take place off screen. And Ben doesnt tell anyone anything. -
The dude talks to dead people for a living.
THAT sentence belongs on a T-Shirt! All we DO know is...it happened off screen...or Darlton screwed up again...and will blame it on Ken Leung...who will deny their accusations with a Twitter rant. -
We've already seen the premiere sequence where Faraday is aware of the frozen donkey wheel, so maybe he's told Miles and the others about it over the last 3 years? We need more data before we make accusations about holes in the show
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Apr 03, 2009 8:00:36 PM CDT
Castmates feared the 29-year-old old Brit's outburst would jeopa
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
Charlotte was already dead by the time the podcast came out. So why then would castmates fear for her job? Is Faraday going to be able to actually save her or was line a mistake in reporting? Ether way I believe Darlton more then her.
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Castmates feared the 29-year-old old Brit's outburst would jeopardise her job
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Darlton has said in a Podcast that their power structure is comepared to the Pachi Lama or however you spell it and the Dali Lama. The Pachi Lama finds the next Dali Lama when the current Dali Lama is ether dead or unable to serve. Richard is like the Pachi Lama.
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I Choose Manliner! Well...yes...Mader's rant came a few eppys after the continuity error was discovered...But just because she 'died' a few episodes back...doesn't mean she's 'done' on LOST. Ana Lucia keeps popping up...Libby...Charlie...Hell, LOCKE keeps popping back up!
If 'ol special Desmond was ever gonna 'break the rules' again for Daniel Farraday....wouldn't it be to save the red head's life?
I think the castmate's being concerned about her little FaceRant, was over her being REPLACED for being an idiot to the producers. But, luckily for Rebecca, Darlton more than graciously fell on their swords and offered their generous mea culpa...as to not rock Mader's flimsy boat any further.
Cuz...if the overall story arc has Desmond warning Charlotte not to come back via a 'consciousness trip' (when Dan's own warning had no effect) DOES keep her from returning to craphole island, and when Dan & the rest of the people who make it out of there again...and step off 316 safely back in civilization...and Charlotte is standing there on the tarmac...and she runs up and gives Daniel a great big hug...
Well...if Mader gets booted off the show for her little 'outburst'...we get denied that wonderful closure moment for Daniel in the series finally.
And that would be...
'Not Cool'. -
Apr 03, 2009 8:58:28 PM CDT
"Locke should have flipped Ben's bed over to wake him up"
by hollywoodhellraiser
That would have been even funnier then when Ben was bitching out Jack in the van. LOL
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u know what would have made the hurley/miles discussion funnier? Hurley arguing that their future (2007) is now their past. duuude like how is our future our past now since we havent been there yet? lol
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In that Premiere sequence....Didnt Faraday just say..."Whatever Ben did...etc" as in he knows Ben did something, just not what......How would Faraday know there was a wheel down there?
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an actor has left LOST a lil on the perturbed side. Harrold Perineau came out on Kimmel after the Season 2 finale and flat out said "I'm pissed", that he was told he was free to pursue 'other work' when he wasn't asked back for Season 3 of LOST. He was upset the he and the fans had invested a lot in his character Michael...and he was just told he 'wasn't needed' without much of an explanation. He was really hot at Darlton on that Jimmy Kimmel show that night.
Now, of course, it makes total sense WHY they didn't need Michael for Season 3...as "Kevin Johnson"'s fate was tied into the arrival of the Kahana freighter to the island...which...in Darlton's defense...COULDN"T HAPPEN until they got ABC to agree to their 'end date' plan...which didn't happen uptil early Season 3. Darlton knew that the introduction of the freighter folk was "The Beginning of the End" of LOST's story...but at the time they unceremoniously 'dismissed' Harrold, they thought they were gonna have to keep 'vamping' on LOST indefinitely...delaying the arrival of the Kahana, until ABC said..."Fine...you can end it in 2010".
But I think Harrold's little 'rant' on Kimmel, may have lead to Michael's 'less than stellar' return to the show in early Season 4. Which Perrineau ALSO complained about...that he felt like Michael's 'closure' wasn't given the kind of gravatis Harrold was expecting. "Basically, I came back for two episodes and exploded!"...
I dunno...I'm just happy Emilie de Ravin is keeping HER trap shut as this season unfolds without her.
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Apr 03, 2009 9:39:45 PM CDT
Well Emilie is keeping quite busy with out Lost
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
Its a good thing they got her on contract to return.
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Apr 03, 2009 9:45:08 PM CDT
I can't think of anything that Harrold has been in
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
besides Lost and the new Unusuals. I wonder if there was more to him getting role, like ABC trying to shut him up or something.
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as "Link"...replacing Marcus Chong as "Tank"...who apparently had a similar feud with the Wachowski brothers over HIS limited role in Reloaded. Tank got tossed...and Link was in.
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... "Law & Order" "The Best Man" "The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions." These are all project that HP has been part of, so his resume really isn't slim.... and his face pretty recognizable (as far as non-A-list actors go).
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... HP didn't "cry" about racism. He expressed frustration about the way Black characters were written in the series to-date. He *never* claimed anyone involved with the show was racist, never claimed that his wife was mistreated, and conceeded that the producers/writers had the best understanding of what to do with *their* characters. You're title line is a gross oversimplification of his words.
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[Sawyer slaps Faraday.]
CHARLOTTE: Oi! What in bloody hell do you think you're doing?
[She moves forward to defend Faraday.]
SAWYER: Shut it, Ginger, or you're gettin' one, too. Now talk!
FARADAY: The Island... [sighs] think of the Island like a record spinning on a turntable... only now, that record is skipping. Whatever Ben Linus did down at the Orchid station... I think... it may have... dislodged us.
MILES: Dislodged us from what?
FARADAY: Time.
JULIET: So that's why our camp is gone? Because the Island is moving through time?
FARADAY: Yeah, either the Island is, or we are.
No mention of a 'wheel' at all. Miles either talked to a dead guy, Widmore OFF island, or a player to be named later.
Funny all this talk about killing Hitler...THAT issue was addressed in the 2nd scene in the premiere:
CHANG: Under no circumstances! This station is being built here because of its proximity to what we believe to be an almost limitless energy. And that energy, once we can harness it correctly, it's going to allow us to manipulate time.
FOREMAN: [Chuckles] Right. Okay, so, what? We're gonna go back and kill Hitler?
CHANG: Don't be absurd. There are rules, rules that can't be broken.
Thanks, Pierre!
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This is the best pic I'ver ever seen of Rebecca.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/6/6f/RebeccaMader.jpg -
Actually Harrod said that only black people get killed on the show. And so in response Darlton said that they were equal opportuniy killers.
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he was complaining about how all the minority characters were killed off and were'nt given better storylines. last i checked alot of the non minority characters were dead too. it was just sour grapes and he bluntly assumed it was because of color. i mean eko wasnt killed off because of race he quit because he wanted to make a movie about his parents i think. and he was shaping up to have a pretty killer story arc. i miss me some eko.
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... you *know* he didn't say that only Black people get killed on the show (especially knowing that his character had already killed 2 others). His main point was that he wanted to see his character reunited with his son, and that he was dissappointed it didn't happen. At least, not yet.
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... ah, no. Feel free to show me the direct quote of him bluntly using the term "racism" or "racist." After that, please share the quote where he claims that "only Blacks" or "all" people of color were killed in Lost.
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i was just pointing out his overall theme of his interview. why are u so testy with the basic point of his interview. ill try to find it since ur lazy. damn
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... as an aside, this "may" be a testament to HP's character. Keep in mind that his was the only character to overtly make an angry racial comment (some of Sawyer's cracks have included race, but they didn't have the level of invective as Mike's words about Jin). Perhaps some here at AICN have inadvertedly confused the actor's statements with that of the character (something that none of us are above)?
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Here's Harrold insane rant about being killed off LOST.
"I'm disappointed...I felt like it was sort of pandering to some fans who wanted to see Michael punished because he betrayed people... I honestly feel like Michael's death served a really weird bloodlust for the fans. Listen, if I'm being really candid, there are all these questions about how they respond to black people on the show. Sayid gets to meet Nadia again, and Desmond and Penny hook up again, but a little black boy and his father hooking up, that wasn't interesting? Instead, Walt just winds up being another fatherless child. It plays into a really big, weird stereotype and, being a black person myself, that wasn't so interesting".
Carlton Cuse responded in the publication, saying, "We pride ourselves on having a very racially diverse cast. It’s painful when any actor’s story line ends on the show. Harold is a fantastic actor whose presence added enormously to LOST".
All that said, Perrineau told TV Guide he’d consider returning to the show if asked — so long as he knows the storyline first.
Eko, Klugh, Abaddon, Michael. Any other black characters I'm missing that were killed off? 4? Maybe 6 if you count red shirt Losties, Others and Freighters? How many white, hispanic, asian, etc characters have died? Too many to fuckin count in my book. ,p>
Sounds like a whiny ass actor with an axe to grind to me. Good luck with "The Unusuals", dumb ass.
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But, some people don't have to follow the rules, and it would've been cool see Sayid as one who could change the rules. So I still think that if they had killed child Ben, but still had adult Ben live, then that would have been a huge mindfuck... esp. after the whole Hurley waiting to see if he'd disappear ala Back to the Future.I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I want to see Ben offed before the series ends.
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... unfortunately once you find the interview, you're going to find that you're nearly 100% wrong. I've already pointed out his main point about his character reuniting with his son (and haven't even touched on the possible reasons such a thing could've been so important to HP at that particular point in time). For the record, I'm not "testy," but have to say that your argument--- with no direct quotes--- is the only thing here that's lazy. Look, it's cool for each of us to talk about the fictitous characters of Lost, and joke about Mr. Eko or Anna Lucia. However, misquoting real people in a public forum just isn't cool. That's my point... and I hope you know that I'd take the same stance were I to see someone misrepresent *your* words. By the way... the ACLU line was funny. I'll give you that.
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... you and I both know that HP's wife (whose done some work on the show) had just delivered another baby. Can you blame any guy in that situation for expressing his thoughts about the image of his character's father-son relationship? I mean, this *is* a show that explores the notion of "daddy issues" on quite a deep level. Moreover, while the notion of a fatherless Black boy *is* currently a stereotype, HP never used the term "racist bloodlust" and the man is not "insane." Now you're just embellishing. The Mike/Walt story likely isn't over, though. Heck, I could see "Darlton" trying to bring HP's character back on just to satisfy you and Jay by killing him a second time. :-)
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... I know you don't mean any harm, and neither do I. I guess I'm just saying we can cut the guy some slack for being frustrated.
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i just get upset at freaking baby actors. they are paid to act out what the writers tell them. thats it. if ur character arc is up then its up. dont try to put sterotypes in where they're are none. shut up act do ur job. dont like it develop ur own show. rrrrrrrrr lol
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That's like wishing they killed Darth Vader at the end of "Star Wars"....then we never would have gotten "Empire Strikes Back"!
Ben will meet his fate...but not before NEXT season!!
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the lil bug eyed dude ends up very much ALIVE when LOST's all over. Just sayin...as much as you despise him...there are many, many FANS of the shmuck.
So...I'm guessing you don't wanna buy one of my "I Love Linus" T-Shirts?
http://tinyurl.com/csd7u2 -
Apr 03, 2009 11:36:52 PM CDT
They need to fix the continuity error with a throwaway line
by dapper swindler
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Oh...I'm TOTALLY on board with what Harrold was saying...I remember writing over at The Fuselage (where I hung out before I met you guys):
"You watch...They will bring Michael back...and they will set things straight...he will REDEEM himself, in front of his castaway's eyes...but more importantly, his SON'S eyes".
So...I was just as frustrated as Harrold that it didn't turn out that way. I felt MICHAEL got the 'short shrift', too.
Now, had Harrold said "I kinda wish they had let Mike & Walt hook up again at the end of Michael's arc...I was disappointed that they didn't 'finish' that father/son story". That would have been fine.
But to go on to say that the way they left it played into some "weird stereotype" IS insane in my book!
Look...NOBODY has a good relationship with their father on LOST...NOBODY. Why should Walt & Michael be any fuckin different?
Harrold projecting his disappointment in the 'racial' aspect of Mike & Walt's relationship status was WAY off base.
I'm sorry if we disagree on this, but that's my opinion...it was an unnecessary jab at Darlton for not telling Mike's story the way HE thought it should have been told.
Reminds me of seasons 1 & 2...without the L-T at the end...
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! -
He has a fucking point. Yes, lots of white pple have been killed, and yes, lots of minorities have been killed, but look at this: How many black people are on the show now? Zero. If there's any point to be made- its that. Yeah, lots of white characters have been killed, but there's been so few interesting black characters that when each one dies, there's not much left. Rose is the only one on the show now, and shes been MIA since the first 2 episodes. So now let's drop the whole fucking thing. He's not being a crybaby. He's got a fucking point.
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Apr 04, 2009 12:00:44 AM CDT
Say what you will, Brody, it DOES play into a weird stereotype
by d.vader
I'm sure it was unintentional but it doesn't make it any less true.
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But he's STILL a crybaby! Ok...I'll shut up now. Next Topic...
What the FUCK is Farraday DOING?!! -
hes prolly wandering y all the white characters are dying off. BADA BOOM! lol try the roast beef please! i kill me
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Im just so sick of one whiney actors, I try my best to not pay attention to what they say or do because most them are messed up in the head anyways. Just act alreay, I don't care about your life. The other thing that I dislike (and I know that Im going to get jumped on for it)is how people keep playing the race card like its still the 60's and theres separate drinking fountains.
Darlton cares about the story and thats it. If there a death then its because its needed for the story. Not because of any vendetta. if someone wants interesting black characters then he needs to go out and create his own series or find someone to do it for him. -
It is true that black people haven't fared well in Lost. The Walt/Michael story line seemed to have been squelched because Malcolm David Kelly grew up fast. They found a perfect resolution for it but they seem to have decided to leave Walt out of the rest of the story. And certainly, Michael was a wasted character. There have been a few other wasted characters on the show (Libby, Shannon, Charlotte, Alex and Danielle come to mind come to mind... maybe the show is sexist too?)
Another one of course is Eko. It seems they wanted to make him a much bigger part of the show but the actor decided he didn't want to stay in Hawaii to complete the show, so they killed him off. Regardless, they could have written something more elegant to end the arch for what is still one of the shows best characters. Still I don't think you can accuse them of not doing right to the character because he's black.
But so what? If all the characters were white I'd probably be harping on it two but this is a rare show to feature an Asian couple and a sympathetic Iraqi Republican Guard character (albiet one played by an actor of Indian descent). Jorge Garcia is a white looking Latino dude but they kept the character Latino. Usually if a show has a token Asian character (or couple in this case) they'd be done but now we've been introduced to a sarcastic, wise cracking ghost seeing Asian dude with an American accent (this is REALLY rare).
The point is Lost actually has a pretty diverse cast so if Harold Perrineau thinks it's racist maybe someone should ask him if he's aware there are more than two races. -
Nobody listens to your 7 foot, asthmatic ass! Lol!! I completely agree with you, Hoichi.
I also agree with Vader that blacks are substantially under-represented on the show at the moment. Rose being the lone hold out. I also found it interesting this is the first season of LOST where no NEW cast members were added a 'REGULARS'...So, it doesn't appear we'll have any new black characters appearing in any significant role in a while.
I was also sad to see Naomi get killed off (Played by the absolutely gorgeous Marsha Thomason, of Jamaican and English descent)...I really wanted to know MORE about her character. Funny, the title of Naomi's 'centric' episode was "Confirmed DEAD"!).
Oh, well...sorry, Vader. Race is a pretty hot button topic...hard to say "just drop it" and expect silence. But I am happy to see everyone controlling their tempers here while discussing such a polarizing topic. Namaste! -
but in the Cincinnati area there is a billboard campaign begging black fathers to raise their children, or at least be in their lives. So, I can see what stereotype he is referring to but I do not agree it applies to his arc on Lost.
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Please. Everyone gets the short end of the stick on the show at times, male or female. Kate, Sun, Juliet, and Claire in particular have had multiple episodes and events to their credit. If anything, Lost is guilty of creating too many character of both sex. Why do you think you see Hurley scoring Libby? Because people fucking love the guy, yet would scream bloody murder. Another "problem" is that they get such good actors that sometimes you read a bit more into their presence than intended.
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I meant to say ppl would react badly to Hurley hooking up with a regular female lead (not that there were many, if any, logical options), but its hard for writers to ignore the romance angle for too long, so you get people like Libby and Ana Lucia in the story to interact with the multitude of strong male leads. It's not sexist as much as necessity.
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They intended Walt and Michael to be part of the show. Michael grew up too fast, so they had to drop that storyline, but they wrapped it up in an interesting way (Micheal unable to kill himself). The had Mr. Eko, but, from all accounts, the actor didn't like being on the show, so they had to write him out. Can't have a black character without the actor playing him. (oh, and the loss of Mr. Eko meant all the supporting cast that went with Mr. Eko's backstory are gone as well, including his brother). They have an interracial couple, in Rose and Bernard, they had the interesting character of Abaddon ... The show was planned to be stuffed with black characters.
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Remember that whole storyline when they crashed about Kate going after that locked briefcase with the toy plane in it. Always bugged me how much that didn't make sense. All that fuss over a toy plane. Anyone think that storyline could somehow be relevant knowing what we know now? Kate consciousness time travel? A 2nd Kate travelling back in time? Completely irrelevant?
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That toy plane belonged to her dead 'first love', Dr. Guywhosenameiforget, whose death she felt responsible for--he got shot up in a car while she was running from the cops. I think 'What Kate Did' was what revealed that?
And from a little ways back, does nobody remember Perrineau as Mercutio in Baz Luhrmann's 'Romeo + Juliet'? -
I tried the site this morning and it trumps AICN with its reviews..
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she is really annoying and just gets in the way all the time, Jack is muuch better as a broken prick of a man!
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*Richard Alpert to James and Kate - "..he'll never be the same..He will always be 'one of us'.."
*Ben Linus to Jack Shepherd - ..No matter what you think Juliet has done to help you ..she will always be 'one of us'.."
*Isabel to Jack - "yīng jī cháng kòng ..He walks amongst us, but he is not 'one of us'..your tatoo.."
Jack: "That's what it says..That's not what it means.."
Mao nods in approval..Orders Jack to Room 23...for re-education.
You just know that Sawyer had been to Room 23 before he rescued Carl..the familiar was too.. familiar.
So, as an 'Other'..you die and are reborn with a clean slate..Tabula Rasa. As Richard Alpert said of Ben "He'll have no memory of this.." But, alas, it is experience that informs human existence. What we have done is who we are. Outside of supernatural or spiritual or divine notions of character, the trial and errors of life build the moral base upon which our actions are constructed. In losing all knowledge of things you have done, what kind of a person would you be? Those memories and experiences would have to be ..'re-programed'..in lieu of technology via familial or tribal instruction..dogma even. With technology: Room 23. And the only way to do that proper, to gain a full accounting of one's lived life..would be. Confession of one's deeds, joys, sorrows..sins.
Ponder..is there anyway, outside the supernatural, that Richard Alpert could have the information of Sawyer ACTUALLY killing Shrimpman in Australia (in his red manila folder 'book of life')..if James Ford had not at some place, at some point 'confessed' that act to some one..to something (i'm looking at you Smokie). Which at the time of Richard Alpert's revelation to John Locke..had not occurred ..in Sawyer's present.
*Of course, again, this means they are all going to die..and Bravo JJ and Darlton. Not purgatory indeed. Resurrection and reincarnation and second life. Awaiting the smokie mechanism reveal soonest.
They gonna wash away..hmm. -
Your partialy correct that they haven't introduced any new characters that have become regulars. This is mostly on account of last years writers strike. They would have given the Frighties a backstory and killed most of them off last season, but now thats happening this season. Charlotte is dead and Im betting that one or two of the others will die. So room for any new characters and their stories is eaten up by the Frighties.
But we have actually gotten a number of new characters. Illena & Ceasar are becoming intregated into the 2007 group and are starting to become regulars. Im betting that at least one of them will carry on to the next season.
We have also been introduced to a few new characters. in the Dharma Initiative. Like Amy & Phil (I think its Phil, the black haired security guy) Plus finding out more about Horace, Candle, Roger & little Ben. But Im guessing that by the time the season ends DI time will be a memory. So the new characters are lesser, but not non existant this season. -
Oh my goodness, I just looked that up and Im a little shocked. I knew that would be a mistake.
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The episode before Season 4's two hour finale we got a major Locke flashback. The episode before season 3's Finale we got Ben's flashback. So if the pattern sticks, what major character do you think that we get a flashback? Widmore, Richard? Or even better Candle or Horace which would show us history even further back? I believe that episode is Follow the leader so it could be any of them since they are all somewhat leaders. Probably Richard or Widmore though. Speculation?
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with that 'Follow the Leader' title. Hell, like I mentioned earlier, EVERY episode title left this season seems to hint at specific 'Big Topic' Lost questions, so I'm thinking (well...hoping) that some major revelations are coming our way. Richard's been very present this season, as opposed to any other season where he'll pop in for maybe two or three episodes the whole year; my money's on him getting a flashback.
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NOW! Show me that frickin Black Rock IN the damn water in a HUGE storm...getting thrashed about...Alpert running up to Captain Hanso...Begging him to turn away from the storm...Magnus refusing...citing the need to protect the precious cargo the ship holds in it's belly...The fore topsail of the Black Rock snapping like a twig...a huge rouge wave builds behind her and eventually swamps the ship sending it crashing deep into the island...
God...I want that flashback so bad. -
Jorge Garcia talking about how primary shooting is done for the season, TMZ's minute for minute accounting of Whatever Happened Happened & the opening of Daniel Dae Kim's Hamburger Restaurant in Hawaii. http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
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But if season 6 is being set up at the big final battle between Widmore & Ben we might get a Widmore Flash. Maybe a Richard next season. But who knows, I don't.
So what do you think is the "precious cargo" in the Black Rock CB? -
Here's another thought my fiance' and I were batting around in our weekly post-Lost discussion. We keep thinking of Alpert and the Others (again, would be a great band name!) as essentially the same, having undergone the same procedure/rebirth/other-carnation/whatevah. But there's one major difference with what's going to happen to li'l Ben in that temple (which is what was also possibly done to Juliet, and Stewardess Cindy and the kids, and Rousseau's crew, etc,) and whatever might have happend to Richard--everybody else ages. Richard's the only one who doesn't. So why is he different? What happened to Richard? If he was on the Black Rock, what was done differently to him when he arrived on the island? And if we go with the 'Black Rock Richard' idea, were the statue and frozen donkey wheel already there when the Black Rock arrived? Was there already an Atlantean/Egyptian society established on the island, or was the Natives/Others/Hostiles' society established by the Black Rock folk? All conjecture, and nothing but questions. Welcome to fuckin' Lost.
And for the last three days whenever I think of Richard all I can think about is the Jewish legend of the Golem, a guardian made of clay. Absolutely no basis or proof for it; it's just a lingering thought that won't go away... -
Faraday has had 3+ years to learn about and study that Frozen Donkey Wheel. Everyone is assuming he hasn't, I'm assuming he has. Let's see who's right
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currently on LOST we have american waspy types, irish (or is Des scottish?), Australians, British, africans, Asians, Portugese, etc.
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Which came first...The chicken or the egg...By that I mean...The Swan or the Orchid?
The Swan (Station 3) hasn't been built yet in 1977. Who is to say The Orchid is even built yet?
In other words...we don't know WHEN Faraday was flashing back to when we saw him in that tunnel with Chang, where the drill bits were melting. Was that '72 or '82? The Orchid is Station 6...were the stations BUILT in the order they are numbered?
Halliwax (Chang) specifically mentions the Island's creation of a " Casimir effect" in the Orchid's Orientation film. The appearance of such a pointed reference implies that the Orchid plays a specific role in the unique space/time properties of the Island.
BTW, Pa...I think Magnus Hanso's "precious cargo"...is what was melting those drill bits.
I don't think the D.I. has yet discovered the island anomoly that will become The Orchid Station...home of the FDW...which is actually a part taken off the Black Rock.
I think the Dharma/Hostile clash will come when...uh...SOMEONE...tells them there is a huge natural power source located in the Hostile's territory.
The D.I. will seek it out...thus causing a war between the two parties.
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where are we getting this line about "precious cargo"? I'm not recalling the episode reference...
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The question originally arose as: how would Miles know about the FDW? I offered up the idea that Daniel told him. Someone said "how would Daniel know about it??" And my response was "he's had 3 years to find it and study it".
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Unfortunately we dont know WHEN we last saw Daniel at the Orchid.
But, considering he's a time travel expert and Candle is onto time travel (from his comments) I'm sure he relayed shit about the wheel (and it's properties) to Sawyer and the others that are sticking close and keeping up the guise. -
I'm saying, the FDW isn't THERE yet for Dan to explore....thus he is unable to pass words like 'the Wheel' on to Miles in his argument with Hugo.
Similarly, there has been NO line about the 'precious cargo' the Black Rock was carrying when it crashed on the island...that's just my theory. -
So again what is the precious cargo in your theory?
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I don't think Candle knows about the "limitless power" in 1977. That is still to come, IMO. Ergo...he knows nothing of the 'wheel' yet either. The only two people we know about that wheel that we know of right now is Locke, Ben and Christian. Certainly Chang WILL know about it...just not in 1977.
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in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction? The 'precious cargo' is just like that.
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Actually we can fairly safely assume that the opening scene of the season is sometime during the 3 years between 74 & 77.
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Safely or not.
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Lol!!
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pa, the language will curl your toenails, but it's excellent storytelling. By the way, here's a T-shirt for you! http://www.bustedtees.com/gilf
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Arzt Go Boom just sent me a link to an artist blog with a few Lost paintings. Its fun to see what other artists come up withwhen doing Lost themed art.
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
I think I was the one that first posted that whole Rebecca Mader age thing on a Lost TB here a few weeks back ... they had the story on ew.com. You're always just one step behind me, dude!
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Now Google "GIMP".
That should tell ya all you need to know about Pulp Fiction!! Lol! -
Heh.. what episode does the line "precious cargo" come from?
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I'm riding you like you do Cherry and me and just about everyone else.
You said "I stopped assuming", um, no you didn't. You assume Daniel hasn't done any research on the FDW between 1974-1977. Keep in mind, that baby, who everyone thinks is Miles (I agree) was a baby in that scene of the premiere.. not a young adult or teenager, which Miles or Sun or whoever would've been in the 90s when you want to place that scene. Or is that where you want to place that scene? You can't really put Miles or Sun as a baby in the mid to late 80s either. Miles has grey hair and looks alot older than 20ish, same with Sun. Someone born in the mid to late 80s would be alot younger now than Miles or Sun.
You're assuming that premiere scene is much later than 77, and have absolutely nothing to go on for that.
So yes, you still assume. -
Well we've had this bit of scoop on Miles being the baby, or Ben and Locke being brothers....
"You remember Marvin Candle’s kid in the beginning of Season 5? I believe that’s Miles. And I know one of those [two theories] is true, because I once ran into Damon Lindelof, and asked him if any of these three theories is true. The first one is that Annie is Charlotte. And of course now we know that’s not true because we saw Young Charlotte at the age of three when Annie would be my age. So the only two left are “Ben and Locke are brothers” and “Miles is Marvin Candle’s kid,” and Damon said, “One of those is true.” " -
I do not assume Daniel has had 3 years to go find out what Ben did down in the Orchid...
I have a THEORY he can't do that cuz it ain't been discovered yet.
There's a difference. Cuz I'm not drawing conclusions on anything....which is what you do when you 'assume'.
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and I asked him if "Alvar Hanso is really Richard Alpert"...and "Is the smoke monster a bunch of evil pissed off island demons"...
Bigfoot said one of those was true. -
fair enough sir. What year is the frozen donkey wheel discovered?
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Is the shit. Every other scene had Harry Dean Stanton giving out beer to an underage Emilio Estevez. See that film.
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But I have a THEORY that the D.I. has to launch a bloody war against the Hostiles to GET to find it. Which leads to 'the Purge' in '92 as the Hostile's retaliation for that war.
So...if ya wanna pin me down...I'd guess somehwere between 1980 and 1990.
Don't worry...HOW Miles found out about Ben and the 'wheel' will be explained soon enough. -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP
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Rent, Buy or Steal Repo Man.
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Not "Wiki" it! Lol!!
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on what happens to Ben in the temple. Him being simultaneously aware of all time, I mean. Of course, that poses a lot of new questions, but even if it turns out to be incorrect, it's still a fascinating concept. That means the Others are Tralfamadorians! God, I love this show.
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Apr 04, 2009 5:52:22 PM CDT
btw, I think you guys make way to much out of Miles and the FDW
by colonel_blimp
IMO, it's either a) a writing/continuity glitch (and a rather minor one, I would say), or b) he was told about the FDW off screen, by for instance Jack, who was told by Ben. I don't really think that's too much of a stretch. Either way, I can't really imagine the show addressing this later, or that it has any major significance. I'll probably be proven wrong though.
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Quote: "I'm saying, the FDW isn't THERE yet for Dan to explore"
It exists in the same time as the statue being whole, which seems like quite some time ago. The well might not have been built, and the DI might not have uncovered the FDW yet, but the wheel itself has been there for a LONG time. -
You 'assume'.
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No assumption there from Eats_sandwich. Sawyer, Juliet and the other time-jumped Losties were in a time period where the statue was whole and there was no well; at this same time Locke is down in Hoth, pushing the FDW. The well is not only built but actually fallen into disuse when the land in '77. So, the FDW has been there since at least before the DI.
But the whole thing's so damn nit-picky. Why are we arguing about it? Why am I answer? Who are you people? -
that is. Heh.
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and you assume its somewhere between 1980-1990, with zero proof. Thats called an assumption. My idea that its somewhere between 1974-1977 at least has some merit since the baby shown with the Candles (or Changs, whatever) is going to be someone we know who is obviously in their 30s. If the person was say, 32, you could put their birth in 1975.
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we have no idea what time period Locke was pushing that wheel. You can't say he was for sure underground at the very moment they flashed to the whole-statue time.
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All the time-jumping Losties were bound together, always jumping to the same time period. To the point that Jin out in the ocean was even in sync with them. Ergo, Locke was MOST LIKELY in the same time period those above ground were. Deductive Reasoning to the rescue! :)
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um wrong on both counts.. jack refused to help young ben, because hes evil in the future, and as he said its not what he's there for..everything obviously has to happen the same way it did before...if jack helps young ben, kate (who has baby issues and obviously didnt want to leave aaron behind but didnt want to take him back to the island either and chose the best place for him to be)doesnt bring him to the others, where he becomes the evil SOB he is now..and dies of blood loss....i dont see how "the writers need them to" figures into any of that..the losties are creating their own future circumstances, because they all know things cannot be changed...explains sawyers "playing house" with the DI instead of trying to change things...in case that was on your mind too...nothing is just because the writers need them to, each of the oceanic 6 came back for a reason...the ending has already been planned so everything is moving towards that finale.
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gotta love the look on ben's face when he wakes up and locke is sitting there smiling at him..
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That must be the same look fanboys give to chicks the next morning who are sitting by their matress on the floor in their parents basement, just a total "WTF???" moment
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and to your Spartans.
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Good job there. I won't try to refute that. :)
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pretty much everyone is wrapped for the season.. and then he got his "aww shucks" moment and needs to be on set to do a few pickup shots. Oh well :)
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You are a scholar and a gentleman. Well...you are a hobbit and a bounty hunter, anyway. ;)
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You were right earlier. It IS nit-picky. That's one reason I love this show so much. They've given so much attention to detail in the past that we assume (and make an ass out of Uma Thurman) that they'll continue to do so, which means we'll all be in here debating it probably long after the show ends. I will say that at least on this talkback (for the most part) we can debate without turning in to a bunch of trolls. That's cool with me.
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Very much agreed. I think it was at the point I noticed Ms. Hawking in the photo on Brother Campbell's desk I first realized that I should be taking a magnifying glass to this show. JK with the nit-picky stuff, anwho; I really do love spit-balling any theories, hair-brained or otherwise with you kind folk. My real-life friends (off the island, ba-DUM-dum!) usually yell at me when I get this in depth with postulation. Nice to have a corner of the web with like-minded individuals up for spirited debate.
Awesome handle, by the by. -
But ...Tralfamadorian as in Sirens of Titan or Slaughterhouse-five. Who knows probably both.
"..If you're ever in Cody, Wyoming, ask for Wild Bob!"..I just hope Locke winds up in a dome with Montana Wildhack.
*As for the precious cargo of the Black Rock..not what they were carrying..maybe what they were after, eh? .."Catch a falling star and put in your pocket..never let it fade away.." And, feature..what if Locke was wrong..what if it tweren't a slaver at all..what if those were crew in the chains..suffering the same sickness, and confined in much the same manner as Minkowski. hmmm? And I do not think 'jughead' was test..that maybe the cover..but I still think those soldiers and that big bomb were sent there for a purpose..to 'torch the island' once and for all...
UNC sucks..I'm going to the Pub! -
my state team aint to bad for a bunch of "hicks". sheeeet.
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How funny is it that I'm dressed in my blue custom made dr who suit (maroon cons too) watching this shit in the east village NYC. Beers!
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I did google GIMP and it gave me a Wiki page as one of the first entries.
Is Repo Man that 90's movie with Clint Eastwood & Charlie Sheen? -
I cut out a lot to mostly focus on Island history
Indeterminate time in past"Official Lost Podcast/May 26, 2006" Unknown dates
The statue is built.
A structure now referred to as the Ruins is built.
"This Place Is Death" and "LaFleur" Unknown dates
The fourteenth time flash occurs sometime in the Island's distant past, between the Four-toed statue's building and destruction, and before the Orchid well is built.
1845"The Constant" 22 March
The Black Rock (believed to possibly be owned by Magnus Hanso's company, New World Sea Traders) sets sail from Portsmouth, England on a trading mission to the Kingdom of Siam, and is lost at sea.
1852"The Constant" Unknown date
The Black Rock ledger is discovered among the artifacts of pirates on Île Sainte-Marie, an island off the coast of Madagascar.
1882The Lost Experience Unknown date
Magnus Hanso's New World Sea Traders is bought out by the East Ocean Trade Group.
1894The Lost Experience Unknown date
Alvar Hanso is born.
1954"Jughead" Between September and December
In September 1954, soldiers of the United States Army arrive on the Island and prepare Jughead, a hydrogen bomb, ostensibly for a nuclear test detonation.
Within the next month or two, a group of Others led by Richard Alpert attack and kill the soldiers, assuming control of their camp.
One month later, the fourth time flash occurs.
Between 1954 and 1964"House of the Rising Sun" Unknown date(s)
"Adam and Eve" die in the caves.
1965"The Man Behind the Curtain" 19 December
Emily Linus goes into labor prematurely (being only seven months pregnant) while hiking 32 miles outside of Portland, Oregon with her husband, Roger Linus. Horace and Olivia Goodspeed come upon the Linuses on the side of the road with intention to help. Emily dies after having given birth to Benjamin Linus.
1967The Lost Experience
Alvar Hanso addresses the UN Security Council.
1970"Orientation" Unknown date
The DHARMA Initiative is created.
1972"Namaste"
First known team of DHARMA Recruits arrive on the island, according to Christian Shephard and the photos of the recruits.
"The Man Behind the Curtain" Unknown dates
Ben and Roger Linus arrive on the Island with the DHARMA Initiative, where they are greeted by Horace Goodspeed.
Ben meets Annie.
1973"The Man Behind the Curtain""He's Our You" Unknown date
Ben meets Richard Alpert in the jungle.
1974"LaFleur" Unknown date
The final time flash occurs after Locke turns the frozen wheel putting Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Daniel, and Miles among the DHARMA Initiative with whom they stay for at least three years.
Between 1974-1977"Because You Left" Unknown date
During construction of The Orchid, workers discover an underground chamber that Pierre Chang warns them not to open. Daniel Faraday clandestinely observes.
1975[source needed] Unknown date
The Lost Experience Unknown date
The Sri Lanka Video, featuring Alvar Hanso, was made.
1977"316" "LaFleur" "Namaste" Unknown dates
Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and Miles are working amongst the DHARMA Initiative.
Ethan Rom is born to Amy and Horace Goodspeed.
Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid arrive on the Island after disappearing from Ajira Airways Flight 316.
1977 or later"Secrets from the Hatch" "Namaste" Unknown date
The Swan Station is built.
"Orientation" Unknown date
"The Incident" occurs.
1980"Orientation" Unknown date
The Swan Orientation film is copyrighted.
"?" Unknown date
The Pearl Orientation video is copyrighted.
1981
"Lockdown" 7 December
The H.G. (Hanso Group) Delegation inspection takes place.
1985"Lockdown" Unknown date
The AH/MDG incident occurs.
1987The Lost Experience Unknown date
Hanso Foundation funding of the DHARMA Initiative ended.
1992
"The Man Behind the Curtain" "Cabin Fever" December 19
The Purge takes place at 4:00pm during which Benjamin Linus kills his father.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:Pre-crash
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Between 1974-1977"Because You Left" Unknown date
During construction of The Orchid, workers discover an underground chamber that Pierre Chang warns them not to open. Daniel Faraday clandestinely observes.
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Emilie De Raven?
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Not a bible.
That said...if you look at the page for "Because You Left"...the opening scene, including Chang and his wife talkin about the baby, and the following scene featuring Daniel in the tunnel is dated "1974 OR AFTER"...NOT 1974-1977, as you put it.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Because_You_Left (mind the spaces)
"AFTER" could be a long time AFTER 1977, could it not? All I'm saying is...we have NO pin point accurate way to know exactly WHEN Daniel bumped into Chang in that tunnel.
Billboe...No...still not an "asumption" on my part...you asked me 'when'...I gave you a 'GUESS'...not based on ANY deductive reasoning...just a simple guess. Still not drawing any conclusions.
But thanks for playing! -
BEFORE the D.I., I was merely speculating that it was not DISCOVERED by the D.I. before 1977.
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Think you're confusing Clint Eastwood with Harry Dean Stanton...also think your confusing Charlie Sheen with Emilio Esteves. But there's a glowing Chevy Malibu in that film...which also features "backwards talking"...and whereas in LOST, lots of the characters names are stolen from literary folk and philosophers...All the repo men (except Otto) in Repo Man are named after beers.
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With the name "Joe" on it in that tunnel scene?
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Apr 05, 2009 1:44:39 AM CDT
speculation on Future Episode (Spoiler because of title)
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
Some Like It Hoth
I was thinking about this title. In Empire Strikes Back when the Rebels were hiding out it is reported that Luke is stuck out in the frozen wasteland. Han wants to go out to find him and some rebel tells him not to, that he'll die and Han says "I'll see you in Hell!" or something like it. Some like it Hoth is a play on Some Like It Hot, which Hot & Hell are hot places. Not Han said this going into a freezing place which is an interesting Juxtaposition Hot & Cold.
"Some Like It Hoth" Press Release - Suspicions about a possible breach intensify after Ben is taken from the infirmary, and a reluctant Miles is forced to work with Hurley when he's asked to deliver an important package to a top Dharma official, on "Lost,"
Miles & Hurley is going on a trip to take a package to a top Dharma official. Doesn't say where they are on or off island. But could their journey somehow mirror Hans trip out in the cold to save Luke. Or does it possibly have something to do with Horace realizing that Ben has been taken from the infirmery? What are your thoughts? -
But its pretty darn close. They only put stuff there if they can find it on the show in a Podcast or something else that Darlton has had a hand in. Plus they site everything.
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It's all up in the air, isn't it? I personally think that the DI knew it was there before they even went...they might not have known the form of it, or exactly where it was, but I think that's one of the main things they were looking for on the island.I guess his jumpsuit was dirty. I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with significance for Joe and I'm coming up short.
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"Baby, I'm tied to a tree in a jungle of mystery and I just got tortured by a spinal doctor and a genuine Iraqi. Of course I'm serious." Genius.
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Lol! reminded me of the line from "Anchorman"...after Jack Black punts Baxter off the bridge:
Ron Burgundy: [In telephone booth] I'm trapped in a glass case of EMOTION!
My ALL TIME favorite Sawyer scene takes place when all the Losties descend on the food supply drop...and are ransacking it in "Dave".
Charlie: Risotto. Nice.
HURLEY: No.
LIBBY: [to Charlie] Where did this come from?
CHARLIE: Locke said some kind of blast doors trapped him in the Hatch. Maybe it was because of this -- so no one would see who dropped it. Any of you guys see a plane last night?
SAWYER: Yeah, I saw it, Tattoo. I just decided not to tell.
[People start arguing over the food, sort of in the background.]
REDSHIRT #1: Hey, give those back, man. Those are mine.
REDSHIRT #2: No, man. I saw them first.
SAWYER: Hold on, take it easy. You guys are like locusts. How about a little order here?
CHARLIE: Shouldn't we let someone a little more trustworthy take care of this?
SAWYER: Like you, babynapper?
CHARLIE: No, like Hurley. Why not Hurley? He's done it before, he can do it again.
HURLEY: No. No way! Not me, no. Not again, no.
LIBBY: Okay, hey, hey, guys, guys, how about no one's in charge, okay? I'm sure everyone can manage to just take what they need.
SAWYER: Great plan, Moonbeam. And after that we can sing "Kumbaya" and do trust falls.
So many juicy tidbits in there!
Pa...I realize LOSTPEDIA is 'damn close' to a bible...why do you think I cite it every other post...I was just CORRECTING your post where you 'confined' the tunnel scene between "1974-1977"...which is incorrect...On Lostpedia...it's much more vague..."1974 or AFTER". That's all. Also...Some like it "HOTH"... I think it has nothing to do with following the plot points of "Empire"...Rather...I think it just means Miles is headed somewhere COLD on the island. Somewhere you might need a parka for.
Eats Sandwich...the Joe Jumpsuit...I think Danny boy STOLE that jumpsuit...Notice how he's walkin by everybody with his head down, acting like he's tryin NOT to be noticed? He even bumps into Candle cuz he's walkin with his head down...as to not be recognized by anyone. I thnk Dan heard about the Orchid excavation going on from someone...stole a jumpsuit and headed that way pronto. Notice how Chang doesn't recognize Dan when he chastizes him?
I'm startin to think after Charlotte's death...Dan decided to take a lil sabbatical from the rest of the crew in 1974 or thereafter. When Saywer told Jack..."He's...gone"...I don't think he was assessing Dan's mental status...I think he was serious....he's actually GONE. Ran off somewhere to collect his thoughts...possibly to AVOID running into the lil red head again. I think Miles may run into Dan in "Some Like it Hoth"...Miles warns Dan he's in Hostile territory...he better stick close...and they end up finding the only cold place on the island...the FDW room.
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Solitary, who doesn't think her and Sayid don't have some unfinished business?
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The Shape of Things to Come? Here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/dhke2f
Thoughts? You know who he's seeing there... right? Note his parka, light blue jeans, shoes, etc. then watch this: http://tinyurl.com/d7bzt3
I for one think they deleted this because it was introducing time travel too early on (before Ben even turned the frozen donkey wheel in the finale). Don't give me no nonsense about a person not being able to be in the proximity of themselves because 2007 Locke did it by seeing Dezy light up the very hatch 2004 Locke was on top of, and 2007 Sawyer witnesses Claire giving birth when 2004 Sawyer is on the beach at the time. So, here's the question? We had all assumed the Ben who goes to the hotel with the visas, sees the Sayid info on the TV, asks the girl for the date... was the Ben who had just got done turning the wheel... but that Ben is still lying there when the "other" Ben is getting his visa stash on the horse... so what's going on??? It calls into question everywhere Ben has been and what he's done. Some people thought one of the Bens flashed to Tunisia there from when he went into that secret side door and summoned smokey; he could've flashed forward 11 months, done whatever, summoned smokey, came back right to that scene in 2004, after they killed Alex, and he summoned smokie. I don't entirely agree but you can see where this is going. -
So the island is a "falling star" that Widmore tries to put in his pocket? Hm.... That damned song has been stuck in my head for days now. Can any of you guys remember a movie where some toddlers were singing it, doing hand movements to the lyrics? It annoys the hell out of me that I can't remember what movie that was. MacFaux. Haven't read Sirens yet, are the tralfamadorians there different from slaughterhouse?
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eh, the only recent movie I can recall is Hudson Hawk.. Bruce Willis and Danny Aiello singing it.. blah. You might try googling it
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and there were kids singing it. It may have been a tv-show. And google wasn't very helpful. Crap, I hate when this happens! But seriously, this could be a hint that the island's origin is extra terrestrial.
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Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, Never let it fade away!
Catch a falling star an? put it in your pocket, Save it for a rainy day!
For love may come an' tap you on the shoulder, Some star-less night!
Just in case you feel you wanna? Hold her, You'll have a pocketful of starlight!
[Repeat Chorus]
For when your troubles startn? multiplyin?, An' they just might!
It's easy to forget them without tryin? With just a pocketful of starlight!
[Repeat Chorus]
- - - - - - - - - -
Not a whole lot of hints in that...But, yes...I DO think Magnus Hanso may have brought something on the extraterrestial nature to the island in the hold of his ship.
But NOT a being...a "thing"...
A giant super-magnetically charged meteorite...or...A falling star he picked up and put in his pocket (Black Rock).
But the damn thing made everyone sick! And crazy as a shit house rat! Except for Richard Alpert...
It just made him ageless. And he took the damn meteorite and buried it deep within the island....to save it for a rainy day?
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And also my favorite scene of my favorite movie! (yeah, I know, I'm a depraved moron.)
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have I mentioned lately how archaic and retarded this site is?
why the fuck do i still come here. -
I was defintely thinking an object, not an alien. Either something that was on the Black Rock, or the island itself is some sort of falling star/metoerite with special properties...maybe even a consciousness...
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I think that he brought a crystal alien skull with magnatic properties. Now the castaways need to reunite it with it body and all of the other alien skeletons in south america.
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I got "1974-1977" from the Lostpedia TImeline.
I don't think that Faraday would run away from little Charlotte. He would try to styay around just to ether warn her & change things or warn her because he knew that was what he had already done in order to keep the timeline strait. I think that when Sawyer said that He's gone he ment that Faraday (Who was placed in Dharma Construction) was so wrapped up and focused on Orchid construction. Or it could also mean that he was killed. -
I think your theory of time when Locke was turning the FDW is spot on. I also tried to argue something similar with Cheif about how the O 2/3rds got back to 1977 - but he disagreed with me on that. I'm sure all will be revealed soon! I hope. Only what - 23 more episodes remain of our favorite show?
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Let's hope not!!
Well, I actually have two theories on the super charged chunk of space rock. Either Magnus brought it with him...or it fell out of the sky and hit the island millions of years ago. I just don't think they would go to all the trouble of mentioning Magnus (and Alvar before him) so often if he didn't play SOME part in all of this.
As for Lostpedia...the "Because You Left" link I sent you has a different timing for those first 2 scenes in the premiere that the timeline YOU provided. Which is why I said LP is not a bible...there are always little inconsistencies because MULTIPLE authors are contributiong to different pages...(hey...just like the BIBLE!!)...anyways...There has not been ANY canonical LOST related mention of exactly WHEN that tunnel scene happened. NONE. No podcast...not time cards in the show...No interviews with Darlton. I believe that scene was left VAGUE for a reason.
Just like they keep going back to fill in the gaps with how the O-6 all made it on Flight 316...I think they will evenyually show us how Dan got the "Joe Jumpsuit" and bumped into Chang in the tunnel...but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like 1980, instead of the timeline we've been following. -
"instead of being INSIDE the timeline we've been following"...cuz...there's only ONE timeline! Lol!!
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talking about the deleted scene from The Shape of Things to Come, please
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The clothes match, i suppose. But still, it is a bit confusing. So ben awakes, beats up the horsemen, rides away from the place he woke up, but somehow returns to the place he woke up, but earlier in time? I don't get what that's supposed to imply. Or are you thinking that the ben lying on the ground is from another of his time travels? For one, I'm pretty sure Ben has never turned the wheel before he did it at the end of S4, so that would mean he'll do it in the future...but if that Ben is from a different time travel, isn't it odd that he's wearing the exact same clothes? Also, that is a different place than where Ben woke up, isn't it? I would assume the wheel turners all appear at the same spot in tunisia, no?
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I've asked around on several LOST forums, live chat, over and over, and 99.99999999% of everyone says its Ben. He's wearing Haliwax's Hoth-parka, for one. Yes, I think its Ben. I'm saying that the Ben lying on the ground is from another time travel. The Ben that gets the visa stash is from something else--and he's the one who goes to the hotel and checks in. We don't know what the Ben lying on the ground did. Since there is no off-island mechanism of time travel that we know of, we have to say that both of those Bens turned the wheel or used that time elevator thing.
Since its a deleted scene, I guess its not canon, but you have to get an idea of what the writers were going for and where the show may be headed. For example, when Ben is with Locke and Hurley, Hurley eating crackers, and Ben signals with a mirror an Other atop that mountain (apparently close to the temple location), some are saying he could be signaling himself. It would be Ben from another time. The timeloop thing. Miles said all of this has happened before. -
and it sure looks like Ben. Still a bit strange that he wears the excact same clothes both times he time travels... But: (I don't mean to sound negative here, it's a perfectly sound theory, and I'm all for speculating) I really don't see it explaining anything. It's not like anything Ben did off island can only be attributed to there being two of him, is there? It's just a theory, based upon one shot in a deleted scene. Is there anything in the actual show that supports or is explained by this theory?Sorry if I sound negative.
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But I won't spoil it. Check spoilerfix if you are interested. I will say that this character has never had a flashback before.
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So much talk about his age, but isn't it also interesting how his personality is so... normal? He doesn't have a trace of an accent or any old-timey language or behaviors. Which is strange if he has spent most of the last 50 years on an island. In fact, if you remember we first met Richard in Florida in Not in Portland. We didn't even know he was an Other until the end of the episode. He fit in perfectly in modern society.
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The frozen donkey wheel existing in the cave before the well. We saw this conclusively in LaFleur. I repeat, the wheel was down there before any entrance was made in which to put it down there. Wrap your heads around that.
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How will they be portrayed in 1977 or up until 1992. Go with their old actors or young actors or new actors entirely
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for Charles and Ellie in 77. In '92 - they could go with the current actors, in makeup. I hope not the cheesy stuff like Ben had during the purge, but something simple.
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That man lying on the ground when Ben is in Tunisa is NOT future or past Ben - it's the local Ben stole the horse from after knocking him out! What's with this 99.9% of TB'ers think it's Ben stuff?
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anyone else get the impression (I think someone up above? Il Deuce maybe?) that when Ben woke up in 2007 - having been SHOT (again) - just before he saw Locke - I got the distinct impression (also from the timing of the editing) that he REMEMBERS EVERYTHING...
also, to put in a couple of cents about Time Travel, without wishing to sound like "an authority" to anyone in particular... Way back when Desmond turned that key and went back in time to meet Ms Hawking in... season three I think? ...I put forward the idea (more of a hope, really, at that point) that this show will do time travel in the same way that the great cinematic masterpiece that is 12 Monkeys does time travel - let me repeat once more the KEY central idea to this:
cast your minds back to the scene in the movie theatre when Cole "figures out" what is going on and uses the MOVIE as a metaphor for time travel...
the movie ALWAYS plays the same way - in other words, WHATEVER HAPPENED HAPPENED
you may "go back" and revisit a movie and maybe see things you didn't notice before or interpret them in a different way from the first time you watched that exact same movie (especially since now you know how it plays out) - but importantly THE MOVIE IS STILL EXACTLY THE SAME
and so please just refer to this metaphor every time you have trouble not quite wrapping your mind around how time travel works on this show - talking about "if Jack hadn't done this" or "if Kate had only done that" or "if it wasn't Sayid it would be someone else" is meaningless... We've all watched it now and we know how it goes - it was ALWAYS Sayid that did this and Kate that did that and Sawyer who did whatever and Jack and Ben and Richard and Ellie and so on and so on - there's no "OTHER" timeline (show) where it was someone else or it happened differently, THIS is how it happened and whatever happened happened LIKE THIS...
again, apologies if I sound a little... authoritarian...
um... oh yeah - about the Black Rock, not that I subscribe to the Richard-is-from-that-boat theory, but if they DO go the way described above then the only possible "precious cargo" the ship is carrying must be.. BYZANIUM!
(wiki it) -
It's a character who has never gotten a flash back or forward before!
http://tinyurl.com/cyl9qc -
because Michael Emerson said it was him... because he's wearing the Edgar Haliwax Parka Ben was wearing.. same blue jeans, same shoes... laying in the same place.. the exit of the Orchid.
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is dressed the same as one of the guys that he beat up in the deleted scene.
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Um...first off...let's remember...it IS a deleted scene.
Secondly...yes...that is BEN...or should I say, Michael Emerson in character as Ben...wearing the Halliwax parka.
That was also just an 'insert' shot, that was suppose to be filled with an effects shot of the Sahara Desert...possibly showing the 'city' off in the distance that Ben eventually rode off to.
You can tell they just threw that shot in as a 'filler'...as
1. No effort was made to remove the Hawaiian mountains in the background. (As was done in the FINISHED scene in the second clip you posted).
2. Also, no attempt was made to remove the power lines/poles in the distance for this DELETED scene. (Ditto)
Basically...they just threw in a spare shot of Ben, right after he woke up in the desert, that they planned on covering with a matte shot of the surrounding desert Ben is in. In other words, had that scene MADE it into the show and over the airwaves...that shot would NOT have been there. But because the scene was DELETED, they didn't spend the time or money to insert the effects laden shot.
That's my thought...your mileage may vary. I think Ben would be a little more curious if he saw HIMSELF laying alone in the desert. In the deleted scene...he barely makes notice of it and continues getting his stash. That's because Emerson wasn't suppose to be SEEING himself...just empty desert with a city far off in the distance perhaps. -
all of the new Spoilerfix Spoilers under a shiney orange button. What if the person that gets the flashback in the second to last episode for the first time dies also? Oh and Cheif, Yeah right.
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Lol!!
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I think that it was an old box with a furry creature in it. Things go bad when Hurley finds it years later and gets its wet and then feeds it after midnight. Which is "The Incident"!!! Its true!!
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I'm tired of debating right now. Just remember what I said, is all I ask.
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Locke was meant to leave the island to get the Oceanic 6 to return, this was part of his destiny given to him by Jacob. He spoke to and invited back Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley. He never told Sun she had to come back. He didn’t tell Ben or Frank Lapidus either. That’s why they didn’t go to 1977, because they, like the other passengers of 316, were never invited to the island by Locke.
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Just remember what I said. Search your feelings...you know it to be true.
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Apr 05, 2009 10:55:51 PM CDT
Cannot contain my excitement for upcoming character-centric epis
by dapper swindler
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Because, honestly, that aspect of time travel would make absolutely NO sense at all.
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Thats probably the best explanation that I have heard about why who went when.
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That makes a lot of sense. Gotta be invited! But...uh...How come Locke HIMSELF didn't go back to '77? He forgot to invite himself?
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to prepare them for an invitation? Or maybe Jacob needed Jack and crew to do something in the past and Sun & crew to do somethingin the present?
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per christian, speaking for jacob, locke was the one who was supposed to turn the wheel and move the island. ben conned locke out of it. thats why the island was moving in time. ben fucked it up. he "broke the rules". thats y the wheel was skipping. remember when locke was in the chamber and told christian that ben told him that BEN was the one supposed to turn it not locke. locke was supposed to be the leader of the "others" now. christian said basically.. why do u trust anything he says?? meaning the island NOW does not "endorse" ben anymore. hes just trying to bend the rules some more for his benefit. hence the "judgement" from the smoke monster.
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once u leave the island u cant manipulate anything thats already set. meaning, u cant kill my (ben's) daughter if shes supposed to stay alive. or once u leave the island by the fdw u cant be fucked with. so ben was killing two birds with one stone. he tricked windmore off the island knowing that widmore cant mess with time by island standards anymore. but, windmore "changed the rules" by killing alex. that wasnt supposed to happen. so ben conned locke into ben turning the fdw and getting off the island. now, windmore cant fuck with ben and ben cant fuck with widmore (hence the "u know i cant do that" ). but, ben can now pull a "alex" to widmore's penny (or at least try) with no reprocussions. hes "outside" of the islands course correction now.
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nobody was. that was the point. BEN is the one who messed everything up. thats why locke was trying to get everybody back. thats why the "timelines" are fucked up. ben has some 'splaining to do lol. hence, the judgement next week!
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Locke was supposed to doesn't meen that that was one of the rules. It could be, but theres nothing said that it is. Only thatLocke was supposed to move the island to hide it. Also If that was a "rule" that he broke by turning the wheel it would seem that he would have less freedom to do things (Kill Penny, etc) then more. We already know that Jacob and/or the island has a strong influence on things off island.
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you didn't dump over anything. I understand that a deleted scene is a work-print with unfinished effects. That means absolutely nothing. You don't completely discount everything in a deleted scene because it has unfinished effects. The point is, the concept was made, the script was written, it was shot, money was spent. Michael Emerson talked about the 2 Bens. Its not an insert shot. It's time travel. Ben thought nothing of seeing himself, because its business as usual. D. Vader.. that aspect makes no sense? Did Locke being near himself in 2004 when Desmond turned on the hatch light confuse you? Or Sawyer being near himself watching Claire give birth make no sense? Its the same exact thing. This is a loop. All of this has happened before. Ben is time traveling all over the place. The deleted scene isn't canon, but it shows you what they were going for. Michael Emerson confirmed that was him seeing himself, no placeholder. This is the last time I'm going to address this. I'm not responding anymore to this topic. Just remember what I said back here. Keep an eye on the show.
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I really like the way you think about things. Very rational and unbiased and you clearly look at all sides, as best you can. I often find myself simply agreeing with your cool and intelligent approach. Its appreciated sir.
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ok ben turns the wheel--everything fucks up--john turns the wheel everythings better..see a pattern? ben and windmore are like opposites now. like a magnetic charge. ones a plus and ones a negative. they both repel. thats y they cant do anything to each other--they NOW cancel each other out. think-- why wasnt charles on the freighter to the island? he cant "normally" return to it. the same reason ben wasnt supposed to be on 316. hes still manipulating for his advantage. thats why ben and sun are in a diff time. hes not supposed to be there.the islands "rejecting" him so to say. plus, he would have more freedom to kill penny with no "outside" influence from the island. also, whos to say that jacob didnt turn the wheel the first time it was ever turned?? now hes trying to get back?
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pretty cool.
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its Widmore, not windmore :)
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people always call him windmore for some reason and its gets old/annoying. Sorry man.
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i type that way too. from my little brain lol. i said widmore but it windmore. guess my buddy busch light won lol. thought i done pretty good on the theories though...
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It was you who requested we reply to your double-Ben theory. And now you won't discuss it anymore because someone here is sceptical? As I said, I think it's a valid theory, but to me, there is so much arbitrary theorizing from fans of this show that I would really like you to come up with a) something from the canon to support your theory, and b) something this theory contributes to or explains in the show. Because to me, if it doesn't explain any of the current unanswered questions, but rather pose a lot of new ones, the theory seems rather random. Sort of like those who think the show will end on a loop, with Jack waking up in the jungle when the 815 crashed. Fair enough, but that's just an ending. It doesn't explain anything. Feel free to not discuss this anymore. We'll find out who's right eventually. :)
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saying Ben was looking at himself in that deleted scene, Billboe? I'd LOVE to read about that...cuz that puts a very interesting spin on everything! Thanks in advance for posting the link!
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Like we got in that mini episode with Christian
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totally fits with everything we've seen - and logically, without the need to fetch from afar...
I think the reason Locke didn't go to 1977 as well was not so much that he didn't invite himself, but because they ("his people") already have a leader in 1977 and most of the 30 years hence - but his services (as pathetic as they may turn out to be, based on past performance) as leader are required NOW - in 2007 - it is HIS time now...
...and his first task looks like it will be dealing with Mr Linus...
someone mentioned before about The Others taking a scary, hostile stance with the 815'ers instead of a more friendly "hello, we've been expecting you, won't you come this way" approach - I suspect we will see a somewhat different style under Locke's leadership and indeed he has already been quite open and forthcoming with his new found friends, the 316'ers -
-although SOMEBODY shoots at Sawyer in that canoe so who knows?? -
that is all, please continue.
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I don't know, if it's Ben lying in the sand while anOther Ben riding to that secret stash. BUT what the deleted scene tells us is Ben KNOWS there's a well with a secret stash of passports and money. That means he either WAS there before (meaning he probably left the island via FDW before) or someone prepared the stash AND told Ben where to find it. The simplest explanation would be that it was HIMSELF hiding the stash there before, because it looks like the passports are ones only HE can use (with fake names on it?) with HIS foto on them. Why would he know where to search and what to find unless he's been there before. That scene - albeit NOT used in the final episode - may have given some great hint of what to expect for us viewers. Maybe just too early for us to know...
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I'm going to take it one step further, though. Not only was she not invited, when she left she was with child...a child bore on the island. Mothers die when that happens. Sun escaped death by leaving the island.
I've been staying away to be spoiler free, but I have caught a thing or 2. (Spoiler coming up that I know about, so look away.) I don't know who dies, and I want to keep it that way, but I can't see the island allowing Sun to come back unscathed.
See you when I can.
rb -
both seem to have arrived on the island and resurrected at points in time different from the living passengers on their flights.
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Need a SPOILER tag in your SUBJECT line, dude! Not buried in the middle of your post! Lol!!
We can only hope, Miya & Fishy...Every dog has his day!
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So look away!....Just as I suggest Locke invited them back to the island which allowed them to return, we will find out in the season finale that another character originally invited the 815 characters to the island in the first place.
Let me put this in the context of a larger theory. The island has something I call “fate powers” – you can give it a wish and it makes things happen through seemingly random manipulation of events. I’m sure this is also connected to the magic box (probably The Temple). Locke wanted the Oceanic 6 to return, so they did through whatever circumstances. For example, I don’t think Ilana works for Ben at all. Sayid was on that plane because of fate powers. No one forced Kate to return to the island, but her seeing the Claire look-alike kind of tipped the scales – again fate powers.
Want Juliet’s husband to be hit by a bus? The island will make it happen. Ben told Locke that Locke brought his father to the island, I think there is at least some truth to that. This has been going on since day one. Charlie wants his guitar? Oh look, it’s in a tree! Miles wants $3.2 million, Ben knows how to make the island make it happen.
Someone wanted the original cast to come to the island. Events were subtly manipulated by fate to get them on flight 815. And fate made it crash – Desmond was merely the vehicle through which fate manifested. The strange coincidences and connections among the characters and their pasts are the seams of fate stringing together events.
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Whatever the result, it is sure to be a classic.
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While watching the scene where Ben visits Widmore in his apartment it seemed to me that Ben & Widdmore couldn't kill each other because that was a rule from the begining. Not something that Ben obtained through turning the Donkey Wheel.
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Sound right to me!
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Hope they both show up to play and it's a good one.
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I'm not saying anymore, Colonel_Blimp, because I'm tired of talking it about in chat rooms, not here. I've already exhausted it as far as I'm concerned. I'm letting it stand, we'll see if anything develops.
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You can't kill another Other or any family belonging to another Other. That's why Ben thought Alex was safe. It had nothing to do with time travel and everything to do with established rules within their "enlightened" society. Ben thought Alex was safe bc Widmore gave Keamy strict orders not to kill Ben OR Alex. That's also why Ben said "You and I both know I can't do that," in regards to killing Widmore. However, he was willing to break the rules and kill Penny- which is why he tells Locke he "broke the rules" on this week's episode. That's my take anyway. (Its also why Juliet was almost executed for shooting Pickett).
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In the preview for the upcoming episode. Ben is going to be “judged” and he “broke the rules”. Sounds like the rules have to do with conduct rather than physical laws. Makes sense. I don’t see how physical laws regarding time travel could keep bullets out of Alex’s head.
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Present Day Locke can be near Hatch-obsessed Locke bc Present Day Locke went back in time. Desert Ben riding a horse and nursing an arm wound can NOT be a time-travelling Ben while other Parka-Ben lies on the ground. It doesn't make sense bc Horse-Ben IS Parka-Ben only a few minutes later. That's why it doesn't make sense. We've seen the episode. Ben beats up a Muslim, takes off his parka, nurses his wound and steals a horse. In that deleted scene, Horse-Ben is the same Ben that we see leave the desert in the real episode- same clothes, same horse, etc. It makes no sense that one of them is a time-traveling Ben bc where did it happen? Ben appears in the desert and a few minutes later ANOTHER Ben appears in the desert in the exact same spot in the exact same way? I don't buy it. I'm not saying its a bad theory- it just doesn't make sense to me and isn't something I could see the writers intentionally writing. Its too confusing. Its not easy to understand like the Locke situation mentioned above.
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...cuz...for the life of me...I can't even remember what we were arguing about! Lol!!
How's that link to Emerson saying he was looking at himself in the deleted scene coming? -
Damn I can't wait for Wednesday!!
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we shall see brotha! lol
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Heel yeah!
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Hobocode, you're gonna love this. I can't wait for tonight. But here's the funny thing: The bar that I've been going to- where all the UNC alumni go to watch the games... is coincidentally the same bar where all the local Michigan St fans go to watch their games.
It was insane trying to park there 2 weeks ago when MSU beat Kansas and we beat gonzaga. I can't imagine what tonight is going to be like.
But what a freaking coincidence. Both teams' alumni at the same bar for the championship. Its gonna be NUTS. I can't think of a better atmosphere to watch tonight's game in. -
I did not catch where this came up recently but this is the same song Claire said her father used to sing to her as a child. This is right before she walks out on Aaron's soon to be adoptive parents (and right when every pen in the room conveniently stops working to boot) durring her first flashback "Raised By Another".
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my dad and little girl are also UNC fans. so, uuuuhhh... GO HEELS! damn, i hate the sound of that! lol
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It also was the tune that played on the baby mobile above baby Aaron's crib.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Plane_mobile
Mind the spaces! -
Do you think her and Charlie got a bit of the same treatment Ben is about to get? As fast as the Others move you would think Jack and Kate wouldn't have caught up to Ethan, who had a nice head start. Granted, he's dragging 2 people, but he's a beast. So maybe he made a pit stop in the ruins. Neither Charlie nor Claire could remember anything that happened when they returned. And poor Charlie, I think this is when he got caught between life and death and Jack did it to him. I've long been of the opinion that Jack has some sort of healing touch. It scares and confuses him and it is a big reason why he struggles to reconcile his medical knowledge with his unique talent. If you watch the scene where he revives Charlie, he doesn't come back until Jack really loses his cool and just uses his power. It's a great scene. Flash forward to Ben, when Jack fucks him up worse than intended in surgery. Again, once he really puts his mind to it, the impossible happens. Then there is the case of Jack's ex-wife and his miracle surgery on her. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems like he's got a little Ben Hawkins in him.
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He had all those passports in his "secret room," plus that picture of him in an airport that Keamy or Miles had. Forget which. Anyway, it stands to reason that he's been off-island before, just not through the FDW. He knew he might need to someday, hence the $ hidden in the well near his appearance place. The question - did Widmore not know that Ben would appear there, and if not how did he know Locke was coming? Anyone find that interview where Emerson said it was a second Ben? Cause he sure looks like he's wearing a turban to me.
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Squash those messy Tar Heels! And we got 1000 posts on this week's TB - not bad!
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When you guys theorize about the tapestry
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Yes, BigE. No disrespect to the beautiful state of North Carolina or any of the basketball programs that've been built there... but win or lose, tonight is all about the Michigan State Spartans!!!
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My guess is that the two Thugs were only knocked out and they ether spread it around that someone wearing a blue parka had just appeared out of no where and started spreading it around and Widmore or Abbadon heard about it or the two were even working for Widmore. So since he probably appeared there himself when he ether heard the rumor or his spys that had been there since he appeared he put out cameras in case Ben came back or someone else appeared there.
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I can't recommend it enough. Ya gotta listen!
http://tinyurl.com/cpd6pw -
is he a little prince?
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In anticipation of that podcast :)
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were u talking about the 1st half of the UNC game?? lol sorry BigE
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Is this years "Frozen Donkey Wheel"
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O & A's with both old & young Ben & Emilie De Raven
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Apr 06, 2009 11:06:33 PM CDT
Comments made me think it revealed something interesting
by dapper swindler
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Not the ending I know you guys hoped for. Looked like the team as a whole couldn't get anything to fall in. We've been there before (last year's Final Four), so I know how much it sucks to not play your best. I'd say "good game" but I don't think you guys would agree. And now... Go Heels!
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I probably shouldn't bother, but.. how many other podcasts have you listened to? They don't really drop spoilers, and once in awhile they give you some insight to things, this one was mostly just fun. That's why I enjoyed it so much. They were talking about all the current things I think that LOST fans are dealing with. I liked how they pointed out that the writers are all from diverse backgrounds and not all just comic book fans. I like the fact that they anticipated all our questions and debate about time travel and wrote it in before the new season began. Anyways, with my recommend, I was mainly appealing to the hardcore nuts who've listened to most of the other podcasts already, saying they will probably enjoy this one a ton. I know I did. People who don't listen to the talkbacks normally, tend to think they're silly and kinda pointless. Sorry if you were expecting something epic or revealing dude. Here's something cool, however, that I learned from the podcast for "This Place is Death": In the Official Podcast for "This Place Is Death", the producers confirmed that the walls seen in the episode were merely an outer perimeter, and that one would need to hike past the walls to reach the actual Temple itself. They also referred to the area where the monster dragged Montand as 'the declivity of the Temple wall'.
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Node/Hobo told me I was nuts for picking MSU to go to the Final 4 in my brackets. While I'm very proud of and happy for my Heels, getting where you got to this year is a feat for any team, and you should be proud of them too.
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... yes, UNC continues to have an excellent program, and the states of Missouri, Maryland and California should be particularly proud of their players.
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I was invited to a threesome with Rebecca Mader and Elizabeth Mitchell, but I declined so that I could listen to that podcast.
For some reason I don’t usually listen to the podcasts. Which is odd because if it’s a hardcore nut thing then I feel that I must defend my reputation as the nuttiest of all Lost fans.
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I listen to the Podcasts on a regular basis and they actually do drop quite a few hints and answers to things. You just have to look past the jokes. Usually during the Q & A they give out little things here & there that will give you an idea of where the show is headed next.
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How about that link, dude? Still waiting.
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sounded fuckin fantastic! Love Damon mentioning "Smokey" while vamping for time.
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I can't wait to see it! They may have screwed up Wolverine, GI Joe & most likely Transformers 2 but at least we get an awsome Star Trek along with the possibility of a good Harry Potter 6.
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Can't wait either. Glad J.J. nailed it.
Listened to the latest LOST podcast, those guys are hilarious. Great questions, too. Like when they sarcastically added to the list of unanswered questions, as if they've 'forgotten' all those storylines. Also like how they were nebulus as to whether anyone will be able to 'alter the future' from the past. Definitely left that possiblity open, didn't they? (*cough* Desmond *cough*).
SO lookin forward to tomorrow night's episode. Can't think of a better birthday present...looking forward to 'unwrapping' it! -
Pick what you think is the real one from 1-10. http://tinyurl.com/d2lbqx I think it might be #6 because someone apparently figured out the asterixes: "none other than Glasglow's own mr. Hume".
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Joyeux anniversaire! How old? Can't wait till tomorrow's ep. Got a feeling it will answer some questions. And probably pose a lot of new ones...
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You guys are worse than little kids about your b'days. :)
Have a great one. You deserve the best! -
My family is a bunch of Trekkies. They can't wait for the new Star Trek film next month. Me, I'm seeing it because I love the stuff JJ does. Unfortunately, it's the same week as the season 5 finale. Not sure if I can handle that all sci-fi pop culture smorgasbord in one week!
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When evening twilight pales... It was a tough game last night, but an enjoyable ride. The better team won, no doubt. At least my brackets looked pretty good - I picked an MSU-UNC final 3 weeks ago! I guess time to direct my attention back to Lost. Can't wait for a new ep tomorrow night, and we get a new Fringe tonight too!
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I roll the 'Hard 8' tomorrow! And Blimp...it wouldn't be a great episode of LOST if it didn't RAISE more questions than it answers!
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I listened to the podcast and they're going with twelve monkeys time travel. So I guess that means the show is going to stay the way it is, and I don't like it this way. So I'm done. I'll watch it, but it amazes me that 5 episodes ago I thought this was the best show ever and once they stopped time jumping and landed permanently in the 70s, it's been awful to me. Have fun.
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I felt that when they jumped ahead three years, it changed the characters too much. So I liked the show and characters the way they were before. It's a different show now as far as I'm concerned. :)
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i mean the show would get mind-numbingly boring if we kept having the same flashbacks. the show could not go on in that format-- think about it. we exhausted the character arcs in that format- now we have a great new one. just give it some time.
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For you to trust that there will be changes and payoffs and things will sit better with you later.. its getting there that you're not enjoying right now. Don't turn your back on the show that's consistently rewarded you over and over for the last 5 years of your life. Sure, theres things that aren't the best, stories that sucked, people we didn't like, but overall its always redeemed itself. Its the roughest right now for some fans, but I'm putting in my plea for you to hang tight. Please. I think you're be glad you did. People hated those first 6 eps of season 3, and I think every single ep was necessary for where the show had to go. It wouldn't be the same without them.
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Apr 07, 2009 10:09:20 PM CDT
cherry's just a little mad she (or he??) will be ok hopefully lo
by jay2517
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Sorry to hear you don't like the direction the characters have taken, Cherry. I was talking about the 'negative turn' all the characters who went off the island took, but it looks like now that they're back on the island they're changing again, and not just reverting to their 'old ways'; they mostly seem to be moving towards a more positive personality spin. Jack's accepting his destiny, Kate's taking responsibility, Hurley's asking questions. (Sayid I dunno, but in his mind he was doing the world a favor). I've said before, though, to each their own; if it's turned into something you're not enjoying more power to you. I know I'll miss chatting with you on these TBs. It's just those jerk faces that come back anyway to tell us how shit the show is that piss me off. And I'm really, really not trying to be mean or jerky at all, Cherry, but how does a confirmation on the mechanics the show uses for time travel have anything to do with character development?
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So I rewatched Season 4 this weekend and seeing it all in sequence made me realize something. (If this has already been talked about, feel free to throw fruit; I AM relatively new to these TB thingies)
In Daniel's flashback during 'Confirmed Dead', we of course all remember he's watching the 815 recovery footage and crying. His female companion or caretaker asks him why he's crying, he says, "I don't know."
Jump to 'The Constant'. Present-day Faraday tells 'Billy Pilgrim unstuck-in-time' Desmond to go met with him. When Des meets him, Dan says, "Well, I obviously mention this meeting." When Des says No, Dan is seemingly so distracted by writing on his chalk board the oscillation info his future self just passed along via Des, that he brushes off this assertion by Des by simply saying, "You can't change the future." But Des does tell him some info about the island, what's happening, etc.
Jump to this season, when Dan meets Des outside the Swan and tells him he's special, he has to save them, see his mother yadda yadda yadda. Des wakes up, with this memory in his head, having full recall of what Dan had said.
What if Des isn't just special in that he can be an instrument in changing the past (and it's not just Des, I think he can be used in this way like an 'instrument' if others are aware of his 'specialness'; keep in mind, in that scene outside the Swan Des didn't instigate anything--DAN was the one who 'changed the past')...what if Des is also 'special' in that he's the only one who can remember or be CONCIOUS of these changes? I postulate, therefore, the reason Dan was crying when he saw the crash footage because he KNEW, maybe at some unconscious level, what was about to happen...because Des had told him in the past. But he's not 'special' like Des and therefore couldn't consciously know why his brain was becoming upset...because it knew this was the inciting incident that would send him going where he 'knew' he was going. I'm rambling again, aren't I?
Also, if it hadn't been mentioned before, Dan's obviously been experimenting on himself the way he was on Eloise and the coma girl Des goes to see. In 'The Constant' when Dan is blasting Eloise with the radiation, Des asks what he used to protect his head. Dan just chuckles and doesn't answer...because he's been blasting his head directly with that same radiation. That same episode Dan on the island conducts an experiment with Charlotte where he tries to guess playing cards, essentially the same principle as the experiment with Eloise the Rat and her future knowledge of the maze. So maybe he was experiencing fugue states like Minkowski, or Desmond in 'The Constant', or coma-girl, or near-dead Charlotte were having, hence the need for 'caretaker lady' in 'Confirmed Dead'. But somehow Dan's found a way to balance himself out and stop those from happening (or maybe just minimize the effect...we've all said Dan's a bit spacey; what if he's jumping and we just don't know it? The way Charlotte asks for her mommy was a memory she was re-experiencing, could be the way Dan says crazy things like 'You see how the light scatters?', then shakes his head and comes back to the here and now). And because Dan's brain's been jumping back and forth, it's more in tune with changes Des makes in the timestream, but can only express itself in bursts of emotion...like his crying fit. -
Room 23 is now bigger. The main page now leads to 4 other pages. There is now a page for Spoilers, Media Mentions, Theories and for Artwork, Fan Fictions, Video Edits, etc. Im very excited about the changes!
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
Sorry for the exceedingly long and wordy post. (if anybody's still hanging around here and not anxiously waiting for Herc to post tomorrow's talkback 'round, ooh, say, four?)
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Apr 07, 2009 11:46:31 PM CDT
i agree remember the card test charlotte was giving him on the i
by jay2517
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the woman that was behind him was prolly eloise! she was his "caretaker". what u think??
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I, too, am under the impression that Dan has been experimenting on himself. These experiments are making him 'special', too...just a whole lot slower than Desmond's 'fail safe' way.
I really think Desmond's incident with the magnetic pulse gave him the ability to become 'self aware' in a big way...whereas poor Dan is still struggling to fit the puzzle pieces together.
You are definitely onto something...with those two 'constants'. ;> -
maybe eloise has been manipulating dan for her a charles benefit. they made a point of NOT showing the lady behind him. sorry about posting what u did about the card test. i was reading quick and posted before i read EVERYTHING in detail lol. sorry.
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I hope you find something else as good to watch on TV as LOST at the moment.
My favorite football team The Tampa Bay Buccaneers just fired Jon Gruden, 5 key 'old school' players...MR. DERRICK BROOKS for cryin out loud! They hired a new coach nobody's heard of...they keep drafting young players nobody's heard of...Long story short...
The Bucs just completely flipped the script on me. I was so pissed...I wanted to kill someone.
But, ya know what? I'm still rooting for them to do good. I'm not turning my back on them...I'm angry at what they've become...but they are still MY TEAM. Who knows? Maybe they WILL be a better team in this new incarnation...
I'll just have to wait and see. But I'll keep watching them...through thick AND thin. I hope you give LOST the same 'fair shake'...
It is, afterall...just a TV show. -
Seemed a little too young for Ellie, considering she looked pretty much the way she did before the 815 crash (remember her meeting Des in 'Flashes Before Your Eyes'?).
And thank you very much, CB; I take it as a badge of pride on these TBs that you approve of a theory of mine. :) And that's something I didn't even think of, that Dan's experiments are essentially turning him into another 'special' person like Desmond...maybe that's why he's the only one who could talk to Des outside the Swan? But one thing...I don't think they're 'Constants' at all...I think they're both 'Variables'. Which gives the statment Dan finds in his journal at the end of 'The Constant' a wee bit of forboding... -
it seems that there is a REASON they didnt show his caretaker. might be a season 6 new character. u never know lol. but, she IS his MOM and he is turning out to be important. they kept the caretaker out of view for a reason dont u think??
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I thought it was blatantly obvious they didn't show her face for a reason. I was just saying that if Ellie from the ring shop in 'Flashes' was already looking that old, there's no way she was Dan's caretaker if that happened after the 815 crash.
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Is not to attribute Daniel some kind of crazy talk, but its a direct phrase from the type of physics he is studying that ties into time travel. For further info, take a peek at his journal and the lostpedia notes regarding it: http://tinyurl.com/d5kz7a
"The metric proves time travel in general relativity as opposed to the Minkowskian metric which is meant for 4-D real linear space. Physically, the tipping of the light cones [which are traced out by null geodesics (a coordinate invariant idea)] is an indication that timelike observers traveling across the horizon cannot escape back out beyond the horizon. In general relativity, an event horizon is a boundary in spacetime, an area surrounding a black hole, inside which events cannot affect an outside observer. Light emitted from inside the horizon can never reach the observer, and anything that passes through the horizon from the observer's side appears to freeze in place, with its image becoming more redshifted as time proceeds." -
http://tinyurl.com/ddwjvt
is going to impact in a big way coming up -
But I wasn't saying Daniel was crazy or even incorrect. I was just hypothisizing that maybe that was a fragment of a memory 'flashing' from when he was first studying this stuff that we had always written off as him being flaky. Like biscuits. Mmmmm...buscuits.
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Theories: TV Guide speculates Death, Spoilers: Who won't die this season & Finale set report, Media: Article on Lost Cinematographer & Polls on if you like Fringe & plan on watching The Unusuals, Muses: Miles Design
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I think Daniel was looking around on the island and noticing how the light scatters...
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Love the new format...you, Ed & Ana are doin some great work!
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Wow, your birthday AND you get a new episode of LOST. Sounds pretty good to me.
sorry i haven't been around much. with all the spoiler speculation and arguing going on.... sheesh
pa, Room 23 Looks great! Congrats PA! -
Fishy beat me to the punch on you getting a new LOST for your b'day, so I'll add it's a Ben-centric one where looks like we get a lot of answers.
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I like it Pa. One question though. When we make posts how do we choose which page to put it on?
Forgive me if you put the explanation in the email you sent. Saw it but haven't had time to read it all. -
2:42pm ET.
Thank you, Fishy & rb! Can't wait to dig into my Dharma Birthday Cake! -
perhaps over the imminent death of a loved one - but he hasn't yet taught himself how to run the maze so he won't be able to tell her to stay away, when he meets her for the first time...
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When you have signed up for more then one blog there is a screen that gives you acsess to all of your blogs. Barfy, Ed & Red know what Im talking about since they are also doing Their Farscape & Fringe blogs. Im just waking up so I can't think, But I'll try to figure it out from your point of view later.
Oh and don't be scared about what I said about posting regularly. I just want a little more from everyone and Im leaving that to your own abilities and what you feel you have time for.
And for anyone thats not already part of Room 23 send me an e-mail paburrows@hotmail.com the more help the merryer!
Ether way though go check out Eds video edits on the Muses page, they are awsome! -
Quite an agressive post time there. I'll go with 5:00 pm. EST.
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I figured with all the STAR TREK news on the front page, Herc might want to remind everyone about JJ & Lindeloff's little 'side project'. Let's hope we don't get another FIRST poster who just wants to remind everyone BSG is over. We get it. It's over!
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flat out don't feed any trolls. They wanna talk, go right ahead; I just won't egg them on any further.
My Herc call's for 5:45 PM EST. And happy b-day, CB! -
Well...in chrth's defense...he probably had no idea he was going to be first...But completely off topic AND first? Pathetic!
Wow....you guys are going for really late in the day on yer Herc predictions. I dunno...I think herc has a boner for Locke & ben centric episodes. We'll see. Thanks for the B-day wishes. -
I figured that to some those are spoilers. If someone wants them in a different place let me know.
http://lostroom23spoilers.blogspot.com/ -
those two previews will be embedded in Herc's lame late TB, Pa! ;>}
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I found this over at DarkUFO. This guy sounds like he's thought about this a lot... and he's not a raging moron about it. It touches on a lot of stuff that everyone in here has talked about, but it's just a bit more concise than we've gotten in here.
Enjoy
My Craziest Theory of All Time
The future does not exist without the past. Even though we live in the present, we actually spend more time thinking about the future, and thinking about the past. So how often are we really present? What is the present anyway? If you were to think about your own time line with you being a fly on the wall there, you would see complete versions of yourself and the people you interacted with. It would be the present to those there, and if you traveled to the future as a fly on the wall to watch yourself and those you interact with, it would be the present to that version of you and yours. To yourself, you would be seeing your future, and it would still be your present.
One thing I have always wondered about since somewhere in season 2, was whose perspective is the show being told from? We often see character centric episodes, but it does not appear to follow one person over anyone else. Which made me realize how open the story telling can be. Most stories are told in the present time, or they may have a narrator reflecting back on a past time. What if the Narrator couldn’t speak? What we could be watching could be the past. We only assume, this is being told in the current time because it began on TV the same day as it is in the show. But we also know that 3 years went by in the watching of the story telling process but it was only 3 months on the show.
What I am getting at is a bit out there, and feel free to think I am nuts (I already know I am and am quite comfortable with it) To explain what I mean about perspective I will use an example of a movie called Il Mare. Which is the original version of what you may have seen as a piece of crap called the Lake House (sorry if you liked it, I like pieces of crap too sometimes) the Lake House only sucked because of the paradox in it. The original, avoids the paradox if you think about it in a certain way. So for anyone who has no idea what I am talking about, Il Mare was about 2 people living 2 years apart, Korean versions of Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves. So for the rest of this explanation I am will just refer to the Characters as Sandy and Keanu. Sandy is in what would be considered our time, the present, she would be Keanu’s future, he is in her past. The whole plot is unimportant; they fall in love via letters to each through the mailbox, from a house they both lived i! n but 2 years apart. (She moved in right after he moved out in her time) So say it was 2009 for her, it was 2007 for him when he is living there. At one point they are going to meet, this would be maybe the next day for her, he has to wait 2 years on top of that. He doesn’t show up, she is bummed, and then finds out he died earlier in the year around the time she first started corresponding with him. So Sandra warns him about this impending accident that will happen to him a year or so in his future, so he will not be killed. But for her, it already happened and he will never be with her in her life. Because it’s the past and you can’t change what happened (plus she doesn’t have a time machine, just a magic mailbox) but for him, since he is in the past (to her) he avoids the situation where he would die and since he knows when she is moving into the house, he knows he can meet her. So they get to be together in his time. The movie ends there; with him showing up at ! the house the day she moves in, she has no idea of course who ! he is.
What does this story have to do with LOST, well, maybe nothing, but it can help explain what I mean about perspective. OF Keanu’s perspective. For to Sandy, whatever happened happened she could not be with him. Nothing changed, but for him he can have a whole story about it. If you wanted to follow that, follow what an altered past would be like. Because from his perspective this is the present. But for the Sandy’s side of the story it is the past and if can’t be changed. But if you saw the story from his point of view, you are just following his time line.
Are you with me so far?
So what if everything we have seen so far on the island was really the equivalent of this Keanu’s perspective of the story (present for him, but past to the girl) The majority of our characters would be Keanu and the island’s perspective is Sandy. Then I had another idea
Ben = Rat = Eloise = learns the maze – then runs it
What if Ben was able to send his consciousness to the future to learn how to “run the maze” of what we have seen. I am not guessing why, there could be many reasons. So for arguments sake the story actually begins in 2009 or 2010. We have never seen the present on the island. He in that time period lives through this, turns the wheel. And then returns to the island at a time before he turned it, before 815 crashed, could be long before also, and now he has the power to have everything go the way he wants, in an attempt to change something. But he can’t change anything in the future, because it already happened. But maybe he could change the past/ present and live there, because it would be the present for those in it. Now, he would of had to do something with himself, not sure on that, but we all know how twisted he is. Let you imagination run loose with that This could be breaking the rules of TT.
So when Hawking was talking about the unpredictable results, and we know some of them went to 77 and Sun, Frank, Ben and the others landed on Hydra Island in 2007, and it looks like an altered future. But maybe it’s not an altered future. Maybe they landed where Ben actually came from, and that is the way it always was, and what we were watching was an altered past. (watching Keanu in Lake House)
So its possible the others never did take over the barracks, and Danielle never made the message. Perhaps in this future, a lot of things are the same, but not good for Ben. Perhaps in that future, Alex was alive, and this is why he was so surprised she was killed. OR she was dead there too, under different circumstances. And this is what he was trying to change. So he’s going back to the island a 3rd time, maybe he is going to be judged or maybe he is trying some more.
The perspective of the story though is not Ben’s, I think it is likely he would mess around with time to suit his needs. Really makes you think about why he was so worried that John heard Jacob, and how he knows everything. The perspective would be that of the island, telling it’s story, and it would teach us no matter whether you believe in destiny or free will the only thing that matters in the present.Theory by theynameditright
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That's it...case closed.
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Yup... Let the sexy time commence.
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So when Hawking was talking about the unpredictable results, and we know some of them went to 77 and Sun, Frank, Ben and the others landed on Hydra Island in 2007, and it looks like an altered future. But maybe it’s not an altered future. Maybe they landed where Ben actually came from, and that is the way it always was, and what we were watching was an altered past. (watching Keanu in Lake House) So its possible the others never did take over the barracks, and Danielle never made the message. (IL_Deuce here: That would explain why we hear the numbers the way Hurley's Lenny heard them!) Perhaps in this future, a lot of things are the same, but not good for Ben. Perhaps in that future, Alex was alive, and this is why he was so surprised she was killed. OR she was dead there too, under different circumstances. And this is what he was trying to change. So he’s going back to the island a 3rd time, maybe he is going to be judged or maybe he is trying some more. The perspective of the story though is not Ben’s, I think it is likely he would mess around with time to suit his needs. Really makes you think about why he was so worried that John heard Jacob, and how he knows everything. The perspective would be that of the island, telling it’s story, and it would teach us no matter whether you believe in destiny or free will the only thing that matters in the present.
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I have to invite you and you have to acept to blog on the new pages. So just send me an e-mail and tell me which ones you want or all of them and I'll send you an invite. paburrows@hotmail.com
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So it's 2:50 EDT now. I'll say 4:23
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Well if Fan Speculation is correct that would be Incest
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Anything else on Wednesday nights? I Kid. 3:53pm
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last thing I need is even MORE speculation about what the episode is going to be about and blow-by-blow commentaries...
6:50pm
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