Cool News
Seven Clips From CAPRICA!!
Merrick again...
For reasons not entirely clear, these clips have been pulled. HOWEVER, I'm told they'll be replaced with new material by the end of the week. We'll let you know when the new material comes around...
Merrick here...
Now that BATTLESTAR haas wrapped up, Universal & Syfy are beginning their push for CAPRICA.
This is a GALACTICA prequel series which, strangely enough, seems to be going out of its way to disassociate itself from GALACTICA (i.e. not being sold as "a prequel", "how the Cylons were born", etc.).
Seven clips have been released for your consideration...
The CAPRICA into movie will arrive on DVD April 21st - which'll presumably be aired on Syfy before the series itself ramps up. Click the box image to pre-order.
Merrick here...
Now that BATTLESTAR haas wrapped up, Universal & Syfy are beginning their push for CAPRICA.
This is a GALACTICA prequel series which, strangely enough, seems to be going out of its way to disassociate itself from GALACTICA (i.e. not being sold as "a prequel", "how the Cylons were born", etc.).
Seven clips have been released for your consideration...
The CAPRICA into movie will arrive on DVD April 21st - which'll presumably be aired on Syfy before the series itself ramps up. Click the box image to pre-order.
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The more I see the less interested I become
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I'll give it a bash but not that bothered. I'm still a bit gutted at the ending of BSG.
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I like the cast, but if I don't see this as good a follow up to BSG, let alone to the prequel.
Coming soon: Caprica 2-The Colbys -
http://tinyurl.com/d5b8v2 << Amazon exclusive clip... a bit more detail about the storyline
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We know what happens right? Most of them die!
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Mar 23, 2009 6:59:37 PM CDT
I really like the actors in this, but I'm still iffy about the s
by prof. pop-cult
I think I would have preferred it if the same actors were cast in a completely different show for the SyFylis network.
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now that we know that it's all about magical people who have visions and can dissapear and all that crap, who cares?
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Congratulations, Prof. Pop-Cult! I predict "SyFylis" is going to catch on. You've effectively ruined the network's new name.
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...the daughter from the old 70s Swiss Family Robinson series. I keep expecting a young blonde Chris Wiggins to pop up out of a bamboo treehouse.
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The success of BSG has set the bar high, maybe too high, it is a masterpiece, people have been comparing it along side The Wire, The Sopranos & Deadwood.
However, it has also made SyFy realise there is an audience for intelligent science fiction, no other channel would dare do what Sci-Fi let BSG did (Maybe HBO or Showtime) with the genre, it was risky, and it paid dividends.
Now Caprica, its a bold move, to create a prequel but make it in a different genre again, sci-fi but with lots of drama.
It could bring those people to Sci-Fi who didnt even go to BSG.
This could be unique. -
I'm going to give this a shot but I'm very doubtful.
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...that came up with this one?
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See how it unfolds
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Aside from the novelty of seeing the "reimagined" future technology, I don't see myself getting into this at all. Its mostly drama and soap-opera stuff from the looks of it, and that was always the least interesting stuff about galactica.
Plus, as mentioned, we know all these people are gonna die anyway in 20 years, so whats the point?
Although the daughter in this is very hot, I'll give them that. -
Or is it 100% planet bound? If so, I'm out...
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Everybody's mortal, does that ruin drama? We know the Titantic is going to sink. If this show is about interesting characters and the audience is spared heavy-handed foreshadowing it could work.
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We already know everyone is going to be killed or end up back in the stone age, so who cares...
You could pretty much sum up every plot point, twist and turn this show would have to offer with.. "Oh well, doesn't matter, they're all fucked anyway" -
the plan might be good (at least it'll have galactica actors), but this... no.
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Edward James Olmos takes cast and crew of Caprica hostage.
Delivers 14 hour *So Say We All* speech.
Collapses into tooth showing slobbering mess.
Releases hostages.
Exits stage center saying *See ya'll tommorow* -
more like "in 50 years", but yeah... they'll all die.
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You guys were probably upset that Galactica used bullets instead of lasers, too. Fuckin' geeks.
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They still have the same cell phones and rave music they had in the pre-fall Caprica finale? Talk about lack of progress. I hope that it doesn't suck, but it isn't lighting a fire yet.
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adamavomit and have more of it. that is all.
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The disappointing last few years of BSG, culminating in the very disappointing finale are all on RDM's shoulders. If you listen to the podcasts he states several times that he didn't quite know how to end the show and they never really figured it out until the end.
When SciFi greenlighted the series he should have had it all worked out. Who the Cylons were. Who the Final Five were. etc. Not just make things up as you go along and hope you can pull it all together in the end.
A good story NEEDS to have a good ending or else the whole series is tainted.
Chris Carter did the same thing with the X-Files. Great concept; great mythology; but with no coherent plan the show collapsed in on itself in a very unsatisfying way that undermined all the good work that had gone into the first 5 seasons.
And RDM did the exact same thing with BSG.
No wonder J. Michael Straczynski and Joss Whedon are so revered. These guys had series plans from day one and knew exactly where there shows were going.
And now RDM wants us to invest in ANOTHER series? -
Looks like the OC meets BSG. Where is the guns, robots, space battles, and punching people; that made watching BSG fun! No thank You! Well at least it can not be as bad as that new Stargate.
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Show what happens on this Earth during the future. Do the Cylons come back? What if aliens invade?
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Why do they have ties and tennis raquets?! And shirts with buttons and pant legs?! Makes noooo sense.
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And while I have faith in the show runners, one thing about BSG that was really great was how "low tech" it was... sure it was a more technologically advanced society than ours is today, but it did not fetish the technology on screen like the Star Trek series used to... I fell this will look very dated in a few years whereas BSG with its stark military look will age well visually.
Also, is that copy of Zoe a skin job? I thought the Colonial made Cylons before the final 5 showed up were chrome "toasters", or do I have my BSG chronology mixed up... anyone know? -
what waste of time
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Shit
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it also means "Fried Chicken" in Icelandic
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It was a show on the Sci-Fi channel that couldn't be summed up with "Giant CGI-[blank] Attacks!" It had nuanced characters and interesting plot developments. You weren't quite sure where it was going from week to week, and it closed on a strong, touching note.
I liked it, didn't love it (I save my love for HBO). It certainly entertained me for an hour every week, and sometimes it showed strokes of genius.
Were you guys expecting ... what? I'm trying to think of a good (non-HBO, cause there's no comparison) TV show - sci-fi in particular - that clearly just blows BSG out of the water. And I'm not thinking of much. I liked DS9, but not enough to watch all nine seasons, or whatever they had. Star Trek is fun every now and then. TNG gets really tedious, even if it's clever sometimes. Voyager, meh. And then you get to the real B-grade stuff that populates so much of the Sci-Fi Channel otherwise.
It wasn't Sopranos (I'll say, "at its peak," since even that masterpiece of a show has a lynch mob ready to rile against it). It definitely was NOT Six Feet Under ... maybe television's greatest triumph. It wasn't Twin Peaks.
But hell, it was a good hour of television ... OF TELEVISION. How much TV do YOU watch that requires rubbing two brain cells together to form a thought? -
Then I'm assuming it'll build to the first Cylon war?? Adama's just a kid here and we're years from the war, but they could jump forward no problem. Caprica's cast seem pretty good. Does everything have to be sci-fi, no it doesn't. Most of Galactica didn't rely on sci-fi, just human drama.
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the Byrne Krypton mini-series back in the late 80's (maybe early 90's)
People divided over cloning (cylons) in the pursuit of immortality / extended life -
I'm not convinced, but I'll at least test the waters. Could be cool.
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why do people keep making posts, over and over and over, about the fact that moore was doing it on the fly. THIS IS NOT NEWS. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. WE DON'T NEED TO BE INFORMED. One guy in this talkback summed up the 'non-fans who call themselves fans of bsg' -- He said: "is there space battles? if not, i'm out." The irony is that--if all you want is space battles, than bsg was NOT the show for you. Week after week of bitching because the haters had no clue what the show was about... it puzzled me how so many of these people complained since like the 4th episode of season three, only praising it when there were big action scenes and space battles. Moore might not have known where the plot would go, and the show was NOT ruined because of this, but i'd be willing to bet he had a much clearer idea of the paths the MAIN characters would take over the course of the show. Don't watch caprica, because i don't want to sift through a talkback ignoring the people who bitch cause they don't know what a show is trying to do. alot of these self proclaimed 'sci fi fans' don't even understand the genre in ALOT of ways. The foundation series, which had some problems (and would make a TERRIBLE movie/show) would, without a doubt, baffle these 'sci fi' fans.
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And sorry, but X-Files and Millennium stomp all over Buffyverse or anything by J. Michael Straczynski.
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I'd like to know, so I can set my Tivo.
For some other show...one that doesn't insult my intelligence and drag me along with false promises of greatness for four seasons... -
ly retarded.
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It became OBVIOUS in the bsg finale who values what-- during the action/space battle, the talkback was FLOODED about 'geek boners' and other phallic nerd phrases, but when that died down all the bitching started. To those people, i ask this: what would you take-- tons and tons of free lap dances, or one LONG night of banging a perfect ten. That's exactly why the early episodes were 'filler,' so they could go out with one, epic space battles that made geeks across the country blow loads in their collective pajama pants and socks in their parents basement
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but decent. Really, it tied up stuff, but it wasn't OMG! Amazing.
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Ultimately BSG was many times more drama than it was 'Sci fi.' The 'Scifi' part of BSG was basically limited to the scenes and technology available to the crew. There were no aliens, no time travel, no super-powered laser weapons (when they had guns the guns shot bullets) and the humans were no different than you and me. It was a LOT easier for wider audiences to relate to BSG after they actually sat down and watched it.if RDM & Co. can pull off the same level of drama/character development than he will be successful. Otherwise this will be another throw-away basic cable show.
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who really thought bsg would SHOW us the true god, or spoon feed some spiritual conclusion-- there is NO WAY that they could approach that subject and give it a blatant explination, that more than twenty five percent of the viewers would like... that whole spiritual arc ended like it should have--giving us bits and pieces to forever speculate the role god, or in some interpretations--the devil, had in the story of the show. BY THE WAY-- if you've followed bsg enough to be able to make several legitimate reasons the finale didn't work for you--don't bother--you're not the type of viewer i've been referring to.
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For me Caprica is bad news. Again money is wasted of something I do not need. I'm waiting for SG-Universe. At least it's premise is one of a SciFi-adventure show. And that is what I like to watch. I hope for another Star Trek show too and that the Star Wars show will rock too.
But Caprica seems boring to me. -
I enjoyed the series that just finished, I don't love the finale as some people seem to, and I don't hate it either, but ultimately don't think I have enough vested interest to care about this prequel given how events unfold.
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Mar 23, 2009 9:14:50 PM CDT
Ya honestly, I wish Sci-Fi would try some new ideas in a new uni
by bullet3
They clearly have the budget to do some of these more expensive special-effects type shows, why not take a crack at something original. Instead of spending money on anothe r show in the BSG universe, or yet another fucking stargate show, they oughta start fresh with something interesting/totally different. Lets face it, there's TONS of cool ideas/books/stories/concepts that could be adapted into many different cool sci-fi series, and with the criminal lack of any good sci-fi on TV (with BSG gone), I really wish Sci-fi channel would get their priorities straight.
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FRAK! *eats gun
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I loved BSG, and while I think they copped out on the finale, it was an ultimately satisfying ending for me. I was pretty happy with how we said good-bye to our favorite characters, but they made me long for more stories in the BSG universe. If they can come anywhere near the quality of BSG then I'll be there every week.
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or the clone wars cartoon, which is surprisingly bad-ass
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I reserve judgment until I see it. But it doesn't look promising.
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There. It was only a matter of time... And congrats Pop Cult! I had called Syfy Syfylis this afternoon in a phone call to a friend, but you posted it first- I bow to you and give you props.
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Looks really awful to be honest.
Syfylis is flogging a dead horse. Sure, it only just died, but it's still dead. -
Looks boring as hell.
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courtesy of the boys over at TheCinemaSource.com!
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=72388138472&ref=mf -
But I want to see Sci-Fi I whatever they are called try something new bold like BSG, and not just a Star Trek Voyager clone (Stargate Universe).
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God did it, so just stop trying.
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and loved it. Very creepy sad. It's not really as teen centric as it might seem. It really focuses on Joe Adama and Daniel Greystone. It's better than the promos. No spaceships.
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So, by that reasoning, no historical figure who is now deceased has had any appeal as a narrative, because they were just going to die anyway? "That John Adams sucked! Sure he helped form a nation, but he was just going to die anyway!"
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He shaped the nation, but we know how the Caprican story ends. The robots revolt. We know Head Six and Baltar were manipulating everyone. Why do I want to see how some dude thought up a Cylon?
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Since this is set before the time they were a united civilization, think we'll see any conflicts between the planets?
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Was John Adams real name John Adama? If so, then you may be on to something my good man. As for what the point of this show is, watch the show and find out. RDM has said this story will give us insight into Daniel (the cylon model Cavill killed off), plus I'm sure there are other reasons for this show (apart from milking the BSG cow) we'll just have to watch to see what they are. Regardless, I have to admit that those clips have me intrigued.
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Since "The Plan" is airing after the BSG finale, does it serve as something of a bridge for Caprica? I figured it was an elaboration on Anders' babbling exposition, but I have found very little about the plot period.
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I will check out the DVD, but if it doesn't really interest me. I don't know if I will watch every week.
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Great point. You should send in your resume and get a job as a staff writer ;-)
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Beat you all to it. Go check the original skiffy name change talkback. owned.
meh. I don't care really. -
Smoking joints at raves? I'd rather watch Adama puke and drool. FUCK THIS SHIT.
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on Mondays show, a caller asked Howard what he thought of the finale. Howard said he hated it, it didn't make sense and he was disappointed by it. Robin agreed cause she attended the screening.
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I'd much rather see a series on the First Cylon War starring a young Adama/Tigh combo. It could be like WING COMMANDER: THE SERIES.
However, after the BSG finale, I feel a bit mixed on BSG prequels in general. We now know that the generation after CAPRICA eventually chucks out all technology and starts over as cavemen. As a result, a show about the last big tech push by this civilization makes this storyline feel a bit uncomfortable to me. I don't know. It's one thing to know that some characters die, but it's another to know you're watching a walking corpse of a civilization. Specifically, we know that their inventions will destroy most of them, as well as that the few survivors are going to abandon most science and technology and go through the pain of total rebirth of humanity, which is in fact the horrendously difficult life on pleistocene Earth when most of them will probably die brutal deaths.
The thought creeps me out, to be honest. -
Another show that doesn't play to the fanboys just like its predecessors. No silly aliens, week to week ray gun fights and space battles or corny one-liners after a narrow escape. For years scifi has been formatted to stimulate the low brain cells of single t-shirt wearing, socially inept that desire their movies and Tv as fast as their food and with as little quality! BSG re-imagined one of their old favourites that literally was a repetitive space battle joke, and revolutionised it into a TV modern day classic. CAPRICA will go on to weed out some more of those still waiting around to see yet another brainless space battle or jerk off over fantasy sci fi women with guns! Intelligent scifi is finally making its way to the small screen with some real success and it will eventually start attracting wider audiences who are not intellect-challenged fanboys who just want to see a space ship crew go at it with aliens week after week in as much variations as conceivable! Science fiction IS drama, it is about humans and their advancements in technology. CAPRICA as a prequel to all the came before, looks like a fascinating story of how and why the cylons came to exist in the first place. All those not interested, go watch DS9 repeats and blow your wad over 7of9 yet again!
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it looks pretty good. why is the cry of "eh. it's barely sci fi" hold any water? isn't that cool?! i love the idea of a show with traditional elements of a drama that just happens to set in a cool futuristic world with paper thin touch screen hologram thingamajigs and talking tennis robots! how is that not totally cool!?
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I am getting Blade Runner vibes from this, in a good way. A lot of different plots in there that can keep writers (GOOD writers) busy for many seasons.
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I'll admit....I was wary at BEST in regards to Caprica. Now, don't misunderstand, I loved the BSG finale. It had everything great about BSG in there. It felt concluded, and it was an emotional roller coaster even IF I didn't 100% agree with some things, "God" in particular. But I digress.First off, if this Zoe is actually a "skin job", created by Daniel Greystone, then it totally throws off continuity, as we're told in Caprica time, that humans had only gotten as far as Centurions, who in turn got as far as "hybrids". "Skin jobs" didn't enter the picture until the 5 came from Earth-1, trading the info to the Centurions to end the war.
I'm not convinced Zoe is a skin job at all...it seems that at least in those clips, she's been downloaded into that VR club. Supposedly there's a Zoe-R as well, but even then, it may not be (I hope) a Skin-job, but perhaps a mobile hologram style deal that can interact outside of the VR.
Regardless, I have to say watching those clips, I was really pulled in. I love the idea of this "Soldiers of the one"...a cult based around "God". Maybe we'll get alot of stuff to back up the one-true god routine in the finale...kind of add something to it to make it seem less magicky. I'll check it out now that I watched those clips. -
they took a show from the 70s that - well pretty much sucked - and reworked it into one of the better shows in recent memory. AND WE ALL KNEW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST SHOW! Given that - why is everyone so negative about Caprica? There are limitless posibilities. They could take a whole fleet of ships, send them into space 20 years before BSG and have them come back 5 years after everything explodes. They could try to rebuild Caprica, fight the toasters let go at the end of BSG, or go in an entirely different direction. With a little imagination they could do anything they want with this show - incuding fleshing out several backstories that eventually tie back to BSG on earth 2. If you liked BSG give Caprica a chance before you decide you know everything about it - unless of course you're one of the 5 or 6 people still upset that Starbuck was a chick.
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Loved BSG, and was satisfied although not blown away like I'd hoped by the finale (I found myself naturally finding poignancy in the Colonials giving rise to a whole new civilisation). I find it hard to muster much enthusiasm for this though. Prequels have to work quite hard to fully engage me - they need to embrace the dire inevitability of the story and, as suggested, make it very character-driven. I do agree pumping the money into something original appeals more - as someone who doesn't read much sci-fi, Virtuality sounds quite original. Maybe they should've gone for that.
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@CeejayNightwing
100% agree. Couldn't have said it in less words.
I guess as a mid 30s guy, who has watched a lot (maybe too many) of Sci-fi Tv-shows and movies, I am tired of exactly what you have described. The narrow wit and the brainless laser gun fights of ongoing Sci-Fi franchises don't really entertain me anymore.
I will give it of course a chance, it looks intriguing, the clips seem randomly selected though. But I doubt it makes me "awe" like the BSG miniseries. I still can't believe it was the end of 2003, when I first watched it. It sure inspired, for good or bad, a lot of reboots of old shows or movies. -
Wake me when that happens...
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After the way BSG ended, you'd have to pay me to watch this series.
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Or did they bring in someone else?
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"RDM made it up as he went along! Waa waaa!" Guess what? So does EVERYONE. Not a single writer knows exactly how a story will end. Often, even if they do? They have to go back and revise it. And if you could not care less about Caprica, go some place else!
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"I'd much rather see a series on the First Cylon War starring a young Adama/Tigh combo"
not really a possibility, is it?
because, you know, tigh kind of wasn't in 1st cylon war...
but now that you mentioned it, I do think that series like second set of webisodes would be more fun then caprica.
I guess it's up to rdm to prove me wrong. -
40 years later. Music & Fashion tend to go round in circles, each generation. I assumed Adama, Tigh and Ellen were hanging out in a cheezy reto club, the equilivant of an 80's throwback club you get now, for out-of-touch people to go to, called something like 'Club Tropicana' or 'Ritzys'. Or who knows, maybe it's set on a planet where techno never goes out of style. It's sci-fi, baby.
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I realize Wikipedia is not always acurate. However, this is from the Wikipedia article on the Caprica series:
"The Graystones include father Daniel, a computer genius; mother Amanda, a brilliant surgeon and unfaithful wife; and their daughter, Zoe, who is martyred to her boyfriend's religious fanaticism – but not before she installs the rudimentary elements of her personality and DNA into a machine, creating a digital twin of herself, Zoe-A. After the human Zoe's death, Daniel uses these raw materials, some stolen technology and his own grief to cobble together "a robotic version of his dead daughter." This robot version, known as Zoe-R, is a Cylonic Eve, the first of her kind."
It sounds like he makes a skinjob, at least 10 years before the Final Five could have ever showed up, thusly, IN THE PILOT the writers are nullifying the entire continuity of the BSG storyline as we know it.
Again, Wiki can be wrong, and of course, I have not seen the pilot episode. But if you watch the clips and the trailer on the Syfy website and the trailer on Youtube, it seems to pan this out. I have a bad feeling about this... -
Hmm...then again...We know that Capricans made Centurions...I suppose that perhaps they may have made one skin job first...maybe that's what made the Centurions go on this quest for bodies, maybe they learned that Greystone did it once, but can't find out how to do it again. Doesn't really have anything to do with resurrection hubs or whatnot, just the memory transfer they already had on Kobol.
In fact, if you follow the lineage, it seems like Centurions were never created on Kobol at all. They speak as if Kobol Cylons went straight to skin job. Perhaps this is the "Stolen tech" that's referred to? Greystone learns of this "memory transfer" from Kobol that Anders talked about? Maybe Zoe is made, then the Centurion tech is based off of that process? Maybe it will actually fit...IF they explain these things.... -
I get what you're saying, but no, that doesn't work, and still ruins the continuity. The whole point of the twist at the beginning of the BSG miniseries and the story was the reveal of "Whoah, cylons look like us now. They could be anyone..." And this was shocking because (1) no one had thought of this before and (2) no one thought is was even possible (to make a robot that seems like a convincing human). In the trailer for Caprica, Joe Adama sees Robot Zoe and is appalled by her, but Graystone offers to make a skinjob copy of Adama's dead daughter as well. That would be Bill Adama's sister. That fact that this even comes up should make the skinjobs not that much of a surprise when they are revealed after the fall. It should have been "Wow, I was afraid this would happen someday." Not, "Oh my Gods, cylons look like us now!!"
It ruins it all for me, because the tech should not even exist at all until the Final Five show up. That's the whole point of the FF story. If Graystone makes a convincing skinjob 50 years in the past, including a form of "organic memory transference", then the Final Five mean nothing at all and this nullifies their entire presence in BSG. Even the scene in the CIC in the finale where Saul offers to give Cavil resurrection means nothing, because a human basically already created this so many years ago, or something akin to it. Cavil could've just said, "Sorry Saul, don't need it. After the fall, we raided a bunch of offices on Caprica. We found some hard drives we traced back to a Daniel Graystone. We already pieced together our own new form of resurrection. Bye."
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McCreary's on board.
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Is God the Imperialist Leader???
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Mar 24, 2009 8:05:35 AM CDT
What happened to the cylon and human survivors on Caprica?
by unfaithfullyyours
I know whatever story there was to tell there was probably repetitive. But when all was said and done, isn't a little cold to just fly into the sun and not send at least one ship, someone, back to check on, help, bury them? -
Sorry to be picky, old son, but indulge in a bit of proof-reading next time!
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it's just not quite what i expected. I can promise, the last 45 mins is worth the watch. The tie in to BSG lore - love it. And no you frakking idiots, they don't create the first skin job - only the FF were responsible for that. What's not explained in the 2 hour pilot (but hopefully during the series before its canceled) is how the centurions gained knowledge/belief in the one true god. And ultimately how Adama's dad was involved in their creation.
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It's been said in a few places that Syf, or Syfy is actually Polish (or Polish slang) for syphillis.
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We already know almost all of your descendants get blown up and the few survivors throw all of the amazing technology you invent into the sun so why should we care about anything that happens?
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I will check it out and make my own mind up. I too wasn't thrilled with the BSG finale but the series as a whole was fantastic.
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Actually, nu-rave might be done already too. But the likes of Crystal Castles and M.I.A. are often grouped under the loose sub-group nu-rave. Usually stuff is over once it becomes mainstream, so, we'll see...
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This is what passes for bold science fiction? Family melodrama with extra filters on the camera lens? Extra lines on a tennis court? An electronic "drug" that was best depicted in Strange Days (or Red Dwarf, for that matter)? Judging from those clips, this has "Earth 2" written all over it.
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Nice.
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After the surviving Colonists agreed to give up their technology and settle on the New Earth, I would wager that the majority of them died within 1-2 years. After they ran out of ammunition, they would have to fight the prehistoric animals of that time with just stone age weapons, and that would result in most of them getting killed. Also, they would eventually run into other tribes of Humans, and since they are outnumbered they would be slaughtered. Well, the adult males and children would have been killed, and the adult women would be captured, raped, and forced into a slave status. That is probably what happened to Balter and Six. Unless Six killed herself, she was probable some caveman's sex slave until she grew too old to bear children, and then she was killed. Truly, it was a horrible fate for the Colonists, unless you think that seeing Balter and Six 150,000 years later as Angels working for God (or "It", because It doesn't like being called God) was a happy ending. It was a depressing ending for BSG, and it was very similar to the ending of Babylon 5 when the space was blown up. Ron Moore had an epic fail with the finale, and it makes me not want to see Caprica. This prequel is about the last generation of the 12 Colonies, and I am just not into watching Apocalytpic television on the Syphilis Channel.
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has replacing 'i's with 'y's become the new thing? Because it seems kind of douchebaggy. Oh well, I survived Crocs, I can survive this...
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is the equivalent of saying 'no car chases in this film? I'm out'.
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People who think god has no place in science or scifi, should be forewarned.
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Sorry, but the hatred towards those that choose to believe in God by some devout believers in Science just smacks of irony...
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We already know that "god did it" and that the reason nothing makes any real sense is because "god works in mysterious ways." After that shitty BSG "finally" I don't think that many people will be back for another bullshit soap opera in the same universe.
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Not sure where all this "IT WAS ALL ON THE FLY THAT BASTARD!" stuff is coming from. The actress playing Ellen knew she was coming back not too long after her death in season 3, and I've seen quite a few indications in interviews with Moore and others that there were plans in place back in Season 2. The "on the fly" argument is dumb. It's ignorant, at best. Go google some shit and get your facts straight. You're on the fucking internet all day anyway.
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That hate is doubly fucking stupid. Get out and go do some reading, kids. A serious discussion about the past and future of humanity MUST deal with our religious side.
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Mar 24, 2009 10:58:46 AM CDT
Darfurontherocks: The only people who think Science is a god to
by v'shael
The only people who think Science is a god to some, are theists who don't understand science.
A god, by any definition, is not constrained by the rules of nature, and in most definitions, can do anything.
Not only does science not claim any such thing, thanks to the Godel theorem, we already know that there are some things that may be true, but which can never be proved. -
and then at the end they will say "God did it!" NO THANKS!
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Listen to his own words on his own fucking podcasts.
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Peter Krause and Julianna Marguiles aren't doing anything right now.
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just because of my love for BSG, but let's just say I'm not expecting too much. I just hate "Prequels" as a general rule. Why can't anyone just be linear ? I'd rather see the BSG crew AFTER they got to Earth.
I hated Star Wars I - III for pretty much the same reason ... where's the suspense when we KNOW what's going to happen ? -
But that would probably bust the SyFylis' budget. Am I the only who is dying for a series where that guy who played the younger version of Adama goes on 24-style missions and blasts lots of Centurions? Craprica (yeah, mature of me, I know) looks to be nothing but the soap-opera angsty drama that was barely tolerable this season on BSG. The biggest special effect will be sweep aerial shots of downtown Caprica.
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We LIKE our scifi to have all elements in it. What we DO NOT appreciate is when "God" or some other "mysterious higher power" is used as the answer and solution to every plot thread.
Our problem with the BSG finale isn't that they brought God into it. Our problem with the BSG finale is in the WAY they brought God into it.
The finale pissed me off, but not near as much as the assholes lecturing us about how "all good science fiction has God in it" or how we should "get out there and do some reading." -- Fuck you! I've been reading scifi since the early 70s, and I think I've absorbed enough, both as a reader and a writer, to know that having the mysterious god-like force solve all the story's problems in one fell swoop with little or no explanation beyond "God's will" is JUST BAD WRITING.
Why put all the plot threads in place? Why tell us about Kara's father if he wasn't significant except as the instrument God used to teach Kara the holy Earth2 Coordinate Song? Why go on and on about all these interconnected things when it all boils down to Kara punching in those numbers and everybody acting wildly out of character and going their separate ways?
We wanted the story to make sense. It didn't. It just traded one bunch of mysteries for one big mystery, and dropped ALL the science (figurative and literally) in favor of a divine, supernatural, seemingly magical answer.
Because of that, my interest in Caprica is at an all-time low. Three weeks ago, I was stoked to see it, but now I don't want to go through all the great hours of reality-based scifi only to have the writers cop out in the end and say "It's magic. It requires no explanation beyond that."
So seriously: Fuck you to all those people who say we "didn't get it." -- It's YOU who don't seem to get it; We wanted answers, not non-answers. We wanted more than just the reaffirmation of everything in-head Six said four years ago. We wanted to hear REASONS, and DETAILS. We wanted good theology-tinged science fiction , not outright fantasy, not magic. If YOU are happy with the ending, then ENJOY CAPRICA, but be aware that the ratings WILL suck, because they pissed away half of their science geek audience in one hour of rampant stupidity. -
missa no watchin'
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"It's magic. We don't have to explain it."
I believe the phrase we're looking for, is "Fuck you" -
after a final episode that splits people down the middle, followed shortly after by STARGATE DYNASTY which will be about stargate family drama
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that during capricas run nerds will bitch and moan here whenever an episode goes by that doesnt feature illicit sex with robots. "COme on this is lame the season finale is only episodes away and i havent seen any sideboob in weeks"
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As a major scifi fan I don't mind a dab of religion here and there aka the prophets in DS9, who happened to aliens anyway! However as far as BSG goes I think they compltely lost direction and opted for the god card as a nice easy it'll explain everything way out of all their problems.
Personally I felt very letdown by the BSG finale, afterall lets not forget it was angel 6 who persuded Baltar to steal the nuke for Natalie etc etc, not very angel like of her. Oh and Baltars little cult subplot ending with him putting them on the shuttle and waving goodbye. Oh oh oh and all those Opera house visions culminating in Baltar and Caprica picking up Hera and taking her to CIC. As for Kara simply vanishing, for me that ruined the entire episode and series.
So no, I didn't like the finale. Which is a pity because I think that the series started really well, the battles were great, and they had some good ideas like the final 5 and the cylon civil war, but in opinion the religion theme ruined it, at least for me.
What I would like to see (probably my ideal scifi series) would be an amalgam of the best bits of BSG and DS9. The darker style of BSG coupled with the better storylines and technologies of DS9 would be great. A section 31 series for example could be very fun. The actors in BSG were good too, you get real character development which is usually lacking, especially in comparison with Enterprise, where they got just about everything completely wrong, apart from the hot Vulcan.
Anyway thats just me, I will of course give Caprica a go, but I can't see myself enjoying it that much at the present. -
You summed up the boiling rage i've been feeling for days. Haven't had the stomach to engage with all the idiots saying "best thing ever" and following that up with "you just didn't get it!" Dude, i got it, and i didn't like it at all. Sloppy writing that invalidated almost everything that came before it by waving a *poof its magic* wand of GOD over everything. What crap.
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Amen, my friend. My sentiments exactly.
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Great screen name. made me LOL.
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equals LAZINESS and BAD PLANNING. Fuck you Ron Moore! And the pegasus you rode in on.
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My name? It's funny to you? Well I hope you're laughing when I pop your fuckin eyeball out with a 102 mile per hour fastball. Bitches be jealous of my sweet Denali.
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...is trying to disassociate Caprica from BSG. BSG was an embarrasment for them. There was now cute kid and robot dog. It was all that nerdy, mouthbreathing science fiction stuff. Like, gross!
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BSG apologists are now the most sad, pathetic creatures in fandom. Fans of Joss Whedon and JMS can now breathe a sigh of relief.
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Each week a new person comes to Silent Hill?
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Nice. Ha ha. I never really "got" that term before, but now I know what they mean by apologist.
Hey, now I'm going to start using the term "licorice moment". -
Are right and you know it.
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its COMPLETELY UNWATCHABLE
Just bad all around
I cant even believe it has anything to do with BSG its so so terrible. -
you clearly didn't get it. Maybe the 14-16 years olds were mad about the finale but anybody with more than half a brain was behind it.
And you claim to be a writer? Talkback posting don't count chief! -
Comparing BSG to The Sopranos or the Wire is fucking insane. After the first two seasons, it was possible after the third, nope.
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Special cameo by Fruit Brute cereal, Caprican re-christened "Daggit Smacks" and shown eaten by an adorable little boy with a vintage Joey Laurence haircut.
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Your whole post points you out as being sad and pathetic. Does it bother you so much?
Here's a hanky. -
The phrase "clearly didn't get it" and insulting Nix doesn't invalidate any of the points he made. If you have a different opinion than someone, it doesn't mean they're stupid.
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Please people learn to use a dictionary
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Mar 24, 2009 2:56:22 PM CDT
Even believers dislike the way BSG handled the divine at the end
by royston lodge
One thing that intellectually-honest believers tend to agree on is that faith cannot be proven. It's like that line from Hitchhiker's Guide - God: "Proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." Man: "So if I prove you exist, that means you don't?" God: "Shit, I didn't think of that." At which point God disappears in a poof of logic. Yes, I know I'm paraphrasing. The point is, believers liked that BSG brought religion into the writing and was able to do so without proselytizing any one faith and without denigrating religion. It was quite a feat. At the end, by "proving" that "God" was the one behind everything, it destroys the idea that the writers were celebrating the CONCEPT of "faith". DS9 did the same thing when they revealed that the Prophets were simply aliens. If a writer wants to treat faith with respect, they CANNOT try to provide a "rational" explanation, one way or the other. It's the same reason why the Midichlorians are so annoying in Star Wars. Writers that try to create a "rational" explanation for faith cannot help but end up undermining faith.
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Just because Daniel created skinjobs doesn't mean his skinjob creations were widely known throughout the mainstream population.
If he did use stolen technology, wouldn't it be prudent for him to keep his skinjob creation a secret, for fear of being branded a thief and a criminal? Plus he had no idea how society would view his creation. If Adama rejected it as a monstrosity, how would the law and the mainstream public view it?
Besides, it seems Greystone's motive for creating Zoe were personal, and weren't spurred on with any regard for the public good. If that is the case he may not have felt the need to share his skinjob idea with anyone else apart from Adama who knew exactly the pain he felt.
One other concept to consider: how do we know the final five didn't create their own skinjob children using Greystone's own designs? Of course that would be a major retcon, but it would solve at least one continuity conflict that the new show would create. -
...those posting on these talkback boards are even worse. Honestly, people, what the hell??
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You just covered pretty much every reason that I - and most of the viewers I know, it now seems - thought the ending a disaster.
Caprica... We now know these people live in a Magical Universe. Unexplained supernatural events occur. People die and reappear. That's fine in the right genre. But I'm not sure I'll care about the Capricans building intelligent robots when, for all we know, Harry Potter could be about to Apparate in Caprica City. -
I see your point. But as it turns out, he did not end up making a skinjob anyway. He made a robot, but not a skinjob. So, my bad, my mistake. I got all excited about something that I did not fully research. I'm the idiot for talking about a show that isn't even out yet.
I'm only human, after all...or am I..? -
Good sf can have faith and religion as themes. But when the entirety of a years-long saga comes down to, "God wanted it to happen that way," we have left the realm of science fiction and entered a fantasy world. If RDM wanted to explore how religion affects a high-tech, futuristic (not future, though!) universe, he should have had more conflict between the Cylons and the humans come down to their respective religions. Why would the Cylons want to exterminate the humans? Maybe because God told them to? Why wouldn't the humans care about enslaving sentient creatures? Because their religion told them they were masters of the universe, perhaps, and so had dominion over all creatures? These would have been reasonable religious themes, as would fringe groups like Baltar's cult. Instead we got God's angels and messengers (Kara included) - who seemingly directed the entire course of the show and are reading Newsweek 150,000 years later. That was weak, IMO.
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i can't wait for dr. frankencylon to start hearing that mysterious song in his head- ina godda davida honey-
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DennisMM, I agree. If you want to go bald in about 2 hrs and 11 minutes, listen to the RDM Podcast of the finale commentary. You will pull your hair out when he tries to justify how if you make it up as you go along it is justified if the end rings as "true", etc.
Well, you gotta admit that it is pretty cool that all along he and the writers did admit that they were making it up (at least mostly) as they went along. But what is the real tragedy? What is worse? Is RDM a mostly talented writer who just dropped the ball and just quite couldn't finish the show he started, and better luck next time? Or did he really think this ending was "true" to the story and worked on all levels, etc? -
...is the evolution from robot slaves to robot warriors, as we should see in this show. The Cylons were supposed to have started out as things like butlers and chefs and such, and at some point the humans decided to create the Centurions to do their soldiering for them. We see an example of a butler-bot thing in the clips above.
This is interesting for several reasons:
1. Who are the Colonies at war with/why do they need warrior bots? We know Caprica is reviled by the "poor" colonists, so there's some interesting possibilities there. Maybe some young Zarek action?
2. Where do the Cylons get there ships? From humans, yes humans created the Baseships and Raiders, only thing that makes sense, and maybe we'll get to see Greystone give a proposal to the Colonial military about the bots and their gear.
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RDM and the writers probably did the best they could considering the plot points they had introduced and how much time they had left to wrap it up. My point is - if he has all the major plot threads figured out at the get-go, he could have made a satisfying conclusion that would have appealed to more fans and ended on as high a note as the original mini-series. BSG was good but it not nearly live up to the potential shown in seasons 1 and 2. Hence my comparisons to X-Files and Chris Carter.
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When the planet is going to get nuked to shit anyway. I'm sick of fucking assholes who think that we would rather see prequels rather than sequels to things we like. Fuck them.
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they all need a good flush down the toilet. BSG sucked monkey brain balls and now this will suck chimpanzee brain balls. Caprica should be renamed Craprica, to better represent the shitty elements in it.
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Why everybody is dogging Moore and company for "Making it up as they went along." Making it up as you go along is pretty much standard operating procedure for television writing. Other than B5 how many shows had a clear idea of where they were going. Most shows have difficulty maintaining their internal logic with each episode.
I think Moore and company did a pretty good job compared to most other shows, especially shows with complex mythologies. The end of X Files sucked, Heroes is a mess, Lost may get to the end ok but it is starting to look a little dicey and in my opinion even Moore's ST:TNG Finale is waaay over rated.
Television writers don't have the luxury that a novelist or movie screenwriters do of going back and revising their work. -
I agree man. Overall the BSG reboot was a standout series and I think it will be well regarded as more and more non SF fans discover it on DVD.
There are a few things here and there that are continuity miss steps and I personally would have liked to have seen a better resolution to the Kara Thrace and Head 6/Baltar threads, but overall Moore and the gang did great work through to the end.
Certainly before the mini premiered, I was one of those people who was expecting total disaster... while I enjoyed TOS BSG as a young kid, I has seen it a year or 2 before the BSG mini reboot and was very aware that TOS was very much of the late 70s and I could not see how Moore and his team were going to update this franchise.
What I got was an adult drama set in space... and I loved it. I was simply amazed at how well made it was. The changes made to the reboot were logical and helped the narrative extensively.
BSG will go down as one of the better examples of the TV medium... up there with The Sopranos, Roots, Homicide Life on the Street, The Wire, The Larry Sanders Show, 6 Feet Under, The West Wing etc.
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Sun Tzu would disapprove
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it will rape your childhood.
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Working links
http://tinyurl.com/dmx4xf -
While the BSG finale was stunning and took a few days to digest, the mythology ( and to some extent technological drift and fashion) was a big muddle.
I imagine those points get overlooked because of the quality of the final episode.
The Six Angel Baltar Devil , the Opera House bridge, the convoluted history of Cylons and Final Five, the God's plan, all of those seemed a bit vague and filled with holes.
The Opera House bridge was the best cobbled together explanations ever. I wish LOST could pull something like that off with their patchwork approach to plotting.
The whole cycle of man/machine creator/created aspect was amazing. While that made the utmost sense, the Final Five looks very weak in comparison.
And Starbuck's disappearance although mysterious was totally unnecessary. We never even had any type of explanation about her rise from the dead. We got one for Baltars six in the head, one that fit the plot and made a certain sense. So why none with Starbuck?
In the end it was probably the best finale I recall on television. -
Well that is diplomatic. How about the fact that they were basically non sequiturs?
Most times a show releases a preview clip, it contains a full scene or shows you an idea - or it's a trailer put together with several sources.
Those literally seemed like they were plucked randomly out of the show. They gave me no sense of what this show is about or who these people are.
Maybe they'll repost something that gets to a point. -
well i see the bsg haters here doing one big circle jerk about how terrible the ending was-- guess what guys--there were alot of us that thought the ending was great... we shared that sentiment and have since MOVED ON. You are absolutely pathetic if you're still bitching about it ending. You should have stopped watching bsg years ago as it was never and will never be the show you want. Look at some idiot saying the new series should be an action series about adama--get it through your heads, you idiots--they have no interest in doing that... no matter how much you want it. Same reason they had no interest in action all season so they could end it with a big bang. And it wasn't 'all god' the series tied up the endings--they didn't go straight from battle to 'god all did it.' They took their time, and what you fuckers don't realize is that the ending WAS satisfying--why? because the CHARACTERS we've grown to love FINALLY found happiness. The whole series has been completely depressing and so much shit has happened to their characters who have been getting beat down for years...as much as people have said it, its true--this show has always been and will always be about the CHARACTERS-- for me, i wanted to see them finally relax and have a chance to enjoy life. I could give a shit about the god influence... this ending made sense and gave us what we have always wanted--not mind blowing answers to geek quesations, but a conclusion to the lives of all the characters. some of you seriously 'don't get it.' its been said, and you've ignored it, but it is still true--bsg was never the show you wanted it to be, so your critique of the show is right off the bat skewed because you only saw it through the lens of what you wanted it to be. By the way--why do you morons keep calling it an 'epic FAIL'??? Are you seriously too stupid to call it an epic failURE????????
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Shit, Even New Caprica was better than this
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http://tinyurl.com/c7hrf8
They weren't pulled -
No worries man. To tell you the truth I actually felt like I was writing some plot points for RDM. How much of a plot twist would there have been had the final five created their skin jobs using Greystone's own plans and designs?
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a young Cally? ZOMG, TEH PLOT TWISTAH!!!
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Yes...it's just you.
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See topic.
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Very well put. I too enjoyed the ending although I had a few nitpick moments...the series will go down as one of the best adult dramas out there. It ruined me for sci-fi. Hell not just sci-fi, for any new drama series. BSG had everything I ever wanted in a television show. I just wish it caught on more with people. The title alone kept many people away. My brother hates sci-fi. He immediately thought it was going to be as corny as the original series. I forced him to watch the miniseries 2 months ago and he's totally addicted. He watched the entire 1st season in one day. I guarantee you if it caught on and was as popular as Lost, the show wouldn't have ended.
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And better plotted.
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It..... wasn't meant to be taken seriously..... oooooh, this is awkward....
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Having just watched the awesome final episode, I just wonder is Caprica will always be in the shadow of it's mighty brother. It's way too early to tell, but I'll give it a shot. Hope it's what Fraiser was to Cheers instead of what Joey was to Friends.
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The crew deserved a happy ending (well, apart from Roslyn) - even Baltar! And I loved that the 2nd Earth that found became "our" Earth. It ended on a big high for me. Thank you Ron Moore!
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So say we all ;)
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Series finales (as opposed to season finales) which were (IMO) better than the BSG one.
Fall Out (The Prisoner)
Blake (Blakes 7)
All Good Things (ST:TNG)
Made In America (Sopranos)
Everyone's Waiting (Six Feet Under)
Sleeping in Light (Babylon 5)
Mirror Image (Quantum Leap)
The Judgement (The Fugitive)
and I don't even include things like comedies, though some might find the end of M.A.S.H or Frasiers "Good night Seattle" to be a more enjoyable time than BSG's finale.
Your milage will no doubt vary. -
A higher power made it happen.
That should be enough of an asnwer for you, right?
Man, you guys JUST DON'T GET IT! -
...there's really not much more to say to such people except "Go read some real SF"...
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you are correct but when the setting is on a space ship supposbly at war with someone, you expect a space battle. not soapy stuff.
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So says I. We all have different opinions.
I find Lost's use of time travel and that fucking annoying Jack's dad really irritating. I think they dropped the ball with this season. People say it's a return to form. I say it's sloppy and uninteresting. I'm still continuing watching it out of curiosity since I've followed it from the start. But the direction they went with is horrible IMO. And the characters were more interesting in BSG to me. -
then why bother with the ships, special effects, or even plot. You could have shot the whole fucking series in a plain white room if thats all it was. Give it time. All you apologists are on the defensive right now. I call it the "Phantom Menace" syndrome. In a few months, you'll come around, even if you don't ever admit it. It would be interesting to see how the year to date DVD sales a year from now rate with some of the better series' out there.
Since many of you seem determined to compare this miserable show to Lost, let's wait and see if Lost makes the same mistake with their finale. -
By making it up as they went along, without any real plan in mind.
Don't expect greatness from their finale, or all of their questions to be answered. -
Lost is having the reverse effect now. Lost did make it up as they went along, at first. But then when they set an end date for the show, it's now all about the plot. But as a result, they are not focusing on the characters. So, cool plot (if you like that kind of thing) but less character development. I think people are unhappy with BSG because when they set an end date for the series, and started focusing on the end, so to speak, they still kept their focus and energy mostly on the characters (per RDM's podcasts), thus the plot resolution felt lacking and unearned.
I know that sounds oversimplified, but you know what I mean. -
the casting just screams cheap...i'll give it 3 months before cancellation
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Really? You're not excited by the casting? I've really been waiting for an Eric Stoltz vehicle...
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"a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc."
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Yeah, hey...I'm gonna need you to apologize for writing that just now. (Ha ha)
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Some people REALLY don't get it. Either that, or they different tastes in Sci Fi. BSG was one damn good series, and when the plot went out of the ordinary (Final 5, Starbuck) the haters started jumping up and down and crying "lame", but when the finale ended, those same cunts were here saying the same thing about the generic plot devices.
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Ron D. Moore better just hope there are enough sycophantic apologists left to give him a Caprica audience. I have my doubts. I didn't give much of a fuck about it before he screwed BSG's plot. I'm definitely not getting fooled twice.
That actually goes for television serials in general now. X-files, Lost, Heroes, whatever. I'm tired of being told its ok to be promised a coherent resolution only to be told that I shouldn't want one and it's ok not to give one. I'm going back to well reviewed books. Television can kiss my ass until they get a code of creative ethics. -
why's everyone bitching about the BSG finale? it had one of the best action sequences i've ever seen on a TV show, a final reveal that tied the ends of the man vs. machine vs. god thing together, and otherwise answered every question, whether ambiguously or not, that was left in the show. Characters got their heartfelt goodbyes, and they played Watchtower in the final moments. What else do you want? Seriously, watch the first 15 minutes again and you'll see that there is literally not one line of dialogue that doesn't serve to put a rocket booster on either character development or plot.
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Because "God Did It" is a cop out and not a satisfactory answer. You could have gleaned that from reading the talkback (or the last talkback) though. Also, that's only the most egregious problem so it's gotten the most attention. Re-listing the things that have made critical observers roll their eyes in the last half season would take more energy than I'm willing to exert right now though.
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And I have watched this show religiously. I love the religious themes that run throughout (and he hates to be called God), the ambiguity of it all. I love their political allegories. I love that God's hand was present because it was throughout the entire show - watch it again if you care enough to come on a talkback and trash it. It might not have been planned the whole time, but it was laid out in such a way that it is true. Plus, Watchtower was sent by God to the FF, Dylan wrote Watchtower. Therefore...
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He was playing around with his dad's computer, looking at pictures of Script-Girl, when he "accidently" pulled all seven Caprica clips and sent them to the recycle folder. He then "accidently" deleted all of the contents of the recycle folder, and then he "accidently" erased the History of that day's activies on the Internet.
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because after 4 seasons of the characters surmising that God was leaping Sam around, it was proved at the end that "God did it"
LAME!!!!!111 -
Only saw the Finale 1 time so my memory is a bit fuzzy about certain details...
1. Was Leoben in the BSG finale? I remember him in flashback when Kara is about to Jump the Galactica, but did he appear in "real time"? Or, did I miss where his character was killed off in a previous ep like D'Anna was? Where was he during that entire battle royal?
2. My second question is about Earth... was our "Earth" and the Cylon/Nuked "Earth" the same planet? I was in a water cooler conversation today where a coworker was explaining that because they jumped the Galactica close to a black hole they went back in time several hundred thousand years before Earth was nuked?! So, the nuked Earth from the end of season 4.0 and the Earth found at the end of the BSG Finale are one and the same.
My interpretation is that the Cylons and Colonials just renamed our previously unknown planet "Earth". Sort of like the planet Caprica and then New Caprica... technically we are living on "New Earth".
What do you guys think? Would love to hear from someone who is more up on this than I. -
I've heard this idea that God has always been in Battlestar from a few places now. On its face that is literally true. They can say that. When Baltar has his "what are you" scene with Head 6 she specifically says "I'm an angel of god just like I've always been" or something like that. The problem is that the way it was said nobody believed for one second that she was telling the truth. We saw it as a non-answer that would be answered in time. Similarly, the issue of the prophecies and Kara were put in place with the general understanding that this God was, in simplest analogy, like the monsters were in Scooby Doo. You know how in original Scooby Doo there's a monster but at the end the monster is revealed as a very human crook? Well there's a similar expectation throughout the mystery of Battlestar. Yes, yes, this looks divine but what is it really? The expectation is that either it will be revealed as something less than godly. Why? Because this was sci fi not fantasy. Because Deus Ex Machina string pullers would be dumb in a post-apocalyptic world about the last remnants of a civilisation surviving using only their wits, grit, discipline and rusty bucket ships. You can say what you want but I bet money you didnt see head six say she was an angel and think "oh that explains it. cool. Now I know." Cuz that sure as shit wasn't the look on Baltar's face. It was supposed to be a non-answer.
But to just dangle along the expectation of such a reveal until the end and then say, PSYCHE! we told you right at the front it was all magic and gods and unknowable, is wilful blindness to what was really going on.
The truth is, as I said above, RDM DID NOT have a plan to have the series be about God. RDM had no plan at all other than to create cool scenes. He'd figure out what they meant later. At the end they sat down and tried to figure out a good explanation, failed, and only then said "fuck it. God did it." Total cheat. Period full stop. The show was about things like human persevence and politics and free choice and even forgiveness. Having an ill defined god pulling strings cheapened it. Maybe it could have been done well if structured and planned deliberately from the beginning but it wasn't done well here. -
1. Leoben was conspicuously absent for no good reason.
2. Your friends are wrong and you are right. -
Holy crap, it only occurred to me now that the guy played virtually no role all season.
Simon the forgotten Cylon got more to do than Leoben in Season 4.5. Wow. -
The colonists all just deciding to destroy their ships and essentially live in the stone age spread out all over the planet is utterly ridiculous.
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would have been earth circa 10000 bc. They start a new colony on an island in the Mediterranean or somewhere and it is the basis for the Atlantis legends.
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Not true, he made a brief appearance on New Earth. Brief, but an appearance nonetheless.
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Leoben was with the Cylons who left Earth on the baseship. It cleary depicts this.
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it's starting to become clear that half the haters had their eyes shut all the way through this.
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I missed a glimpse of Leoben, therefore my criticisms are all invalid. U R good @ thinking! YAAAY!
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BTW: Your post is interesting.
While overall I liked the BSG Finale, as an atheist, the "God did it" explanation was surprising. I too was expecting somewhat less spiritual or less divine answer. But, my guess is that the ending sat better with people who are devout.
I also agree about your Head-6-is an-angel point. It seemed at the time that her answer was more of a smart assed quip to Baltar. Further, during seasons 1&2, Head 6 is clearly working for Cylon interests and not for the more neutral "God". At least that is how I interpreted it.
This leads to Kara's story thread. I think RDM was going for simple elegance with Starbuck vanishing... but it didn't satisfy.
My problem is that BSG was not set up as a work where fantastic/supernatural things happen. I can accept that in Star Wars and other fantasy stories, but BSG was most satisfying for me when the Colonial Fleet was following a trail of interstellar breadcrumbs left behind by their ancestors... the supernatural stuff made it overly convoluted.
That said I still enjoyed the series and it is definitely one for the DVD collection. -
Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the shit out of the series, warts and all. It was awesome. I would watch it again. I would just stop watching the minute Gaeta met his end by firing squad. (Loved that fucking mutiny arc).
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Andyb77: Very clever idea for the ending... I guess that could still be the case, even if it was not specifically mentioned in the exposition of the series finale.
I think the destruction of the fleet was in reference to Cortés burning his ships when he landed in the New World around 1520AD. So the idea is based on historical precedent (http://tinyurl.com/2h3k9n.
Donkey_Lasher: Can you refresh my memory and describe the scene? Did Leoben stay on the Baseship in the first part of the 2 part finale? My memory fails me.
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Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Perfect ending for me. "Phantom MEnace Syndrome"? Funny term but totally untrue. The finale definitely split people apart, but I'd say over 75% loved it while 25% hate it. Nobody loved TPM.
It's great that the few that dislike it, get sooo angry at the notion that fans that truly felt satisfied with this ending. Again, I loved it but that must suck to have watched BSG for 5 years and then to get chumped in the end. Hilarious -
I was going to say it doesn't anger me but realised I'd be lying. It does, and after thinking about it I figured out why too. It's because it makes it ok for writers to write this way. Which is ok for people who for some reason can't see the obvious cheating and bad writing going on in front of their faces, but is bad for those of us for whom it is as plain as the nose on our faces. It makes it hard to risk watching other dramatic properties. It's too bad.
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There are a lot of them currently being shown, and this is more a fault of the format than the writers. With shows having varied lifespans, how can writers stick to a plan? Imagine if Lost had been cancelled after the second season and given a TV movie to explain and wrap things up? It would have bombed.
Overall, I think the writers did an EXCELLENT job in patching together this last season. -
i agree with the guy who said 75% of the fans liked the ending-- you have to factor in the viewers that do not post here--most of those aren't geeks who act like by watching the show they are entitled to things only geeks care about. Then there were LOTS of people posting here satisfied, but it doesn't look that way because the haters post and post and post trying to drive home their frustration while the ones who liked it merely stopped by the talkback, said they liked it, and left. It was said above, and I think it was a brilliant comment--it must suck for you guys who have watched this show all this time only to get a finale that angers the hell out of you... as far as i'm concerned--it serves you right. joke is on you. Myself and many others have been very happy about the ending, and our types of viewers were the ones who deserved to be happy, not the haters who don't get it. I also love how some have the audacity to post here saying: hahaha, i've been telling you guys the ending would suck and sure enough, i was right...lol the ending was awful, sucks to be you guys" -- I mean, who are they to tell ME about how *I* felt about the show???
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certain parts were excellent - especially the wrap on Anders/Kara. not perfect, but actually much more complete than i'd expected. poor Chief. dude cannot get a break.
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I loved it. So did many of the people that I know. Nobody I know liked the BSG finale though.
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in BSG-TOS, the voice over in the pilot ep. the characters were talked about as the origins of the gods of the Mayans, Egyptians.. etc. The RM's BSG takes it's concept from that. This has been one big space opera. It's not science fiction in the traditional sense. For that look to Asimov and Clarke for that. This show was space opera pure and (not so)simple.
Anyone with a passing knowledge of Egyptian or Greek myth stories knows of their operatic nature. This show was just that. It told the story of how we came to be. A myth. Just like any other origin myth throughout mankind's history. The gods of those stories did shit that was stupid and didn't hold up logically. The concept of god, gods or a higher power was present from the mini series.
I thought RM's team handled the science vs faith in a thought provoking manner. Science today is looking for the"God" particle. Even Einstein entertained the idea of a higher power. Just not the higher power of traditional religious view.
You hater's need to fucking lighten the hell up.
Why so Serious? -
I guess you guys missed or forget about the epsiode where they went out of their way to establish that Head 6 was not the result of a chip in Baltar's head or anything else, and then she told him dhe's an abgel! Or maybe you guys missed the episode where Caprica 6 was seeing a Head Baltar as well, certainly also not the result of a chip or anything else.
You guys wanted the show to end your way, the reality is that the mystical elements of the show have been there, rooted in bedrock, from the mini-series on. Fucking deal with it you goddam wankers. -
I can't comment if I can't watch the clips..
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Head Six working for the Cylons in seasons 1 and 2? I honestly think you're misremembering.
Remember that in the miniseries, she pointed out the Cylon device in the CIC. In '33' she tells Baltar to destroy the Olympic Carrier. The list goes on.
Rewatch the show, assuming that Head Six is an angel, working for the eventual survival of the Human and Cylon races, and I think many scenes will make more sense to you.
As for me, I've been fairly sure Six was an angel of the one true God since the end of season 3. So I was happy to see the series end confirming that. -
Hmmm... Interesting that we remember Head 6 in different ways.
From my point of view, having Baltar point out the Cylon smoke detector to the Colonial Military puts Baltar in a position of authority and trust within the fleet and gives him access to sensitive information and critical systems once again. Something that works to the advantage of the Cylons no?
As for the Olympic Carrier, it does the same thing for Baltar with the added advantage of striking fear into the hearts of the civilian fleet.
Which bring me to a new revelation... with the destruction of the OC, and the deaths of the flight crew and passengers, I guess the God of BSG is not a compassionate one... although there is no reason it should be I guess.
Perhaps one's perspective on the Head 6/Baltar relationship depends on your world view... but I am more then happy to watch this series again and take a look at the issue your way - dropping the Miniseries in my DVD player now... Nothin like enjoying a bit of BSG at the end of the day.
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I'll be interested to hear your further thoughts. I too have started a rewatch of the series (currently on 'Water'). Will probably make a blog post of it when I'm all done.
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It appears that the finale was Simon's swan song though.Leoben is in THE PLAN BSG TV movie whereas Simon is not, based on the credits.
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I don't think it's remotely 75% approval for that final arc, by the way. I'm a bit shocked at people who actually can't tell when they are being fucked with, even if the series was mostly awesome up until that point.
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Cool. Be sure to post your blog URL on the CAPRICA talkbacks that are sure to come. I'll be watching or email your blog to me at matt dot cody at yahoo dot ca.
One other thing that I think influenced my perspective: I can't remember if it was from a DVD commentary track, RDM blog or podcast, but Moore explained the reason he wanted 6/Head 6 to have platinum blonde hair. He said something like: "I wanted the audience to feel a sense of danger and foreboding when she was on screen... and instantly recognizable... As soon as you see the woman with the blonde hair you know they are in trouble." I'm paraphrasing, but you get my point. I think he also goes onto say that is why he had her kill the infant in the first act of the mini.
Anyway, I can't really fault Moore and the way the story unfolded isn't "wrong" by any means. I was just basing my expectations based on his early comments and concepts. Really, what large project doesn't change and adjust mid stream? I work in TV news and that happens all the time with the stuff I work on... I can't imagine a narrative that runs 75 episode + webisodes + a miniseries + a MOW that doesn't change... that's next to impossible.
RDM did a great job. Loved what he did with the 70s concept. -
You're being reductive again. It's not the "mystical elements" of the show that are the problem. I personally love mystical elements. It's the fact that mysticism was used as an *excuse* for incredibly bad writing. When mysticism is used to great effect, like say Star Wars or The Matrix, it's fantastic. On BSG it was used to cover up the fact that the show's creators didn't know what the fuck they were doing and had to figure a way out. Their solution was "god did it" because they really had no idea of how to end the show.
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...was never part of "The Plan."
It makes me wonder why he bothered to cut out Starbuck's ovary in the first place. What was THAT all about, anyway? Was Simon just the Cylon Jack the Ripper? -
There's only one thing god did in this show, send his prophet(Kara Thrace) and some angels to help the humans and cylons finally find peace. That's it.
Every single action and result, other than Earth's jump coordinates, can be traced directly back to choices made by humans and cylons, whether good or bad, the show and its outcome were driven by choices made by mortal beings.
At no point do we see direct intervention by god forcing anyone to do anything. -
Want to hear your thoughts on finale.
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I made the same comparison a couple weeks ago. Fortunately, he didn't drag it for 4 season too long.
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If he did, you know there'll be a shitstorm.
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then the finale would have been great. Finale should have ended with that shot of Galactica flying towards Earth. Perfect.
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I will happily give this show a chance. Moore and co. have earned my lifelong support on all future projects (an honor shared by Joss Whedon - - keep tryin' Abrams).
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...I think it's just a simple fact that the mystery and the questions are always so much more fascinating then whatever answers are offered by the creators. This is true of all shows. Look at X-Files. Look at Lost. By the time the answers are revealed we've already come up with a million and one alternatives that we're more married to. It's a tough act that these shows set themselves up with - being the one with "the answers." It tends to take on a life of its own. I'm not so concerned with the answers. It's the journey the show took me on that really matters. In all honestly, I think it was wise to just have Starbuck "blink" out of the show. All in all: I think BSG actually did an admirable job of bringing everything together and offering intelligent "answers." Those of you who claim the show is "shit" because it didn't offer a powerpoint presentation of how Starbuck was ressurrected need to stop expecting a TV show to answer your life questions and head to therapy or the local book store and pick up a bible to answer your conundrums.
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Ron Moore fucked himself in the BSG finale by not leaving open an option to do a movie. Why the fuck wouldn't he want to do a major motion picture of BSG? He could have ended the finale by having the BSG reach the New Earth, and then end it. Yes, you would have a lot of pissed off fans at first, but within a few days they would be looking forward to a BSG movie that would answer all of the lingering questions. Personally, I would have loved it if the BSG showed up to Earth in our modern age, similar to Star Trek IV. Moore has gone from kicking ass to kissing ass with one episode.
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You could always just watch the original, where they show up on 1970s earth and hang out with Wolfman Jack...
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You're very literal. So, you love BSG and you dress up in costumes and you can't admit that the ending sucked even worse than the last two seasons and that the writers obviously had no idea at all what they were doing. Fine.
As far as "Why the fuck wouldn't he want to do a major motion picture of BSG?" goes, well, that's because nobody would pay to see it after the television series went into a downward spiral in season 3 and crashed with its shitty finale. Remember Serenity? No? Neither does anyone else. Crapica will fail, but that's O.K., because it'll just make room for new Farscape. That's the best series ever, which definitely needs a movie. -
Dude has been a BSG TB mainstay since the beginning and he's been balanced (key word there) in his assessments even as a fan. He has his perspective as you do yours. But a little balance does go along way in these TBs IMHO.BTW if Caprica fails, TPTB will bring back another BSG spin off before they bring back Farscape.
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I'm sure that Hairy appreciates you coming to his defense.
What's TPTB mean? Pardon my ignorance.
Farscape is already coming back, there's a new comic book and new webisodes on the horizon. Both are designed to prime the pump for a full-on return. So, it's in the process of happening just as BSG gasps its death-rattle.
Farscape is a ten year old series being revived due to fan demand, because people want more of something that's so incredibly great. On the other hand, in ten years nobody's gonna give a shit about BSG or want it back, except for the most maladjusted adults attending sci-fi conventions in their Galactica uniform to get Olmos' autograph. -
I think you go to far. RDM may have screwed up the resolution, but the series was still truly excellent. In some sense it's actually in a class by itself. It'll be raved about for years to come. The worst anyone will be able to say when passions cool is "the ending is controversial but you still have to see it" and this is coming from someone who has been very critical of the resolution.
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Admitting you liked Phantom Menace is no help to your credibility. That piece of shit was truly truly incompetent. ;)
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At least you admit that the ending was crap. Good for you.
Here's how I see the BSG trajectory, as someone who watched the entire thing:
Miniseries: God awful, almost unwatchable garbage.
First season: Shows a lot of promise and interesting new ideas, but still pretty bad.
Second season: Rocked the hizzy. Definitely the show at its best, bringing up intriguing plotlines.
Third season: Starts off strong and then jumps the shark with the boxing episode, setting the bar as low as it could possibly go.
Fourth season: Irritating to watch. Meanders everywhere. Interesting aspects of the story completely dropped in favor of boxing-episode style, soap opera bullshit. Ending with one of the worst finales ever.
So, basically it had a high point in the middle there but basically came full-circle in its suckitude. -
Makes The Phantom Menace look like fuckin' Shakespeare.
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Farscape, on the other hand, never had a bad episode. It's trajectory was always up, constantly getting better and better and never faltering.
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The few human survivors left in the 12 colonies are descendants too. We really don't know what they decided to do with all the technology (or what happens at all, especially the regarding other Cylon models) after destruction of the Colony.Come to think of it, that might make a good spin off if done well.
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TPTB means The Powers That Be.
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You whine and cry about god doing everything in BSG blah blah blah, but when I point out that god did not in fact do everything, that god in fact did very little, your only response is that I should think the ending sucked? Yeah that makes sense, how about commenting on my response instead of dodging it.
And while we're at it, any other bullshit, untrue gripes that you think made the finale suck? I'm sure there must be something else you can come up with that I can summarily destroy because you really don't know the show very well.
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And you're dead on, there's been plenty in this show that I have openly criticzed.
Black Market, much better if the cut scenes had remained.
The whole concept of Cylons needing "love" in order to procreate? Schyeah right, whatever!
Lee and Kara's psuedo-affair after they boxed the crap outta each other? BLECHHH!
I've got a long list of stuff I could sit here and criticize the hell out of the show over, but in the end the show, when taken as a whole, was a fantastic journey that IMO surpassed any sci-fi we've seen before, and most everything on television besides.
And Sector, saying ridiculous crap like "Farscape, on the other hand, never had a bad episode.", well what can I even say to something as ridiculous as that? Quite the subjective opinion there offered as fact. WOOSH - credibility tossed right out the window. -
The reality is that BSG is a success. All this talk of "BSG gasps its death-rattle" is silly in light of its spin-off show coming out and another TV-movie on the way. It has a lot in common with Farscape actually in that it's a critically acclaimed, award winning show with alot of fans.
What you (and others) seem to be missing is that the style of BSG is different from Farscape (or Stargate for that matter) and while you may think BSG is crap, which you can if you like, it's just not really your thing but is alot of other people's thing. Not crap, just different. Science fiction rarely has something that is totally crap. That's the beauty of it and why we love it so much. -
I'd love to get into everything that sucked about the BSG finale, but I don't have time to write a bible-length book for you.
Maybe you could come up with some untrue gripes about Farscape that I could blast you for?
As far as "not knowing the show very well" goes, maybe you didn't read the post where I gave the breakdown of every episode except "Razor"? The reason I didn't do "Razor" was I'd momentarily forgotten about it because it sucked so bad. BSG at its ultra-conservative worst. That's probably why you like it.
We get it. You love your ultra-conservative, anti-sci-fi sci-fi soap opera. It's the best thing ever.
Get it straight though, I never whined or cried about anything. You're the one whining and crying because I said your precious show sucks... which it does.
"You're so literal" WAS my response to you. Obviously "God did it" is a glib way of saying that the awful writers used metaphysical bullshit to cover up the fact that they didn't know what they were doing or how they were gonna end the show.
Now I'm gonna disappear like a poorly written angel character on a bad soap opera with sci-fi trappings. -
I love the positivity of your post to me.
It almost makes me feel bad for tormenting retards like Hairy Nutsack.
No, not really. But I apologize for any distress my comments may have caused you because you seem O.K.
I guess my two biggest problems with BSG were:
1. The fact that you could tell that the writers didn't really have a plan and were just flying by the seat of their pants, making the show soapier and soapier as it went on until it became almost intolerable to watch
and
2. The simple fact that it's such an ultra-conservative show. I guess that helped make it popular, but it kind of grates on me. I prefer Farscape's anarchistic, chaotic nature rather than Laura Roslin and Bill Adama's fascist rule.
Peas. -
Wow, that's quite a post. I mean...umm...are you fucking insane?
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Yes. At the end of season 1 the colonists were still headed to Earth and still running from the Cylons. "Galactica 1980" was really an entirely new show, and it ended up being one of the worse of all time. I don't Ron Moore even considered that the best ending could have been to NOT end it. He could have left it wide open to intrepretation, and then leave an opening for a "major motion picture". He really fucked himself with the BSG finale. The "Caprica" prequel show is not something I want to watch now. I will refer to it as "Craprica" from now on.
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You type like an eight year old. And your argument smells of hot trash.
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Acutally, Leagar's ending makes sense. Maybe a non-ending would be nice. Like Angel, where they never even show the last battle, the whole point was "the fight goes on"...They could have just kept searching for Earth, then the show ends and you end up feeling that the search just goes on.
I don't really think that fits in with the point of the whole show, but I do think that is a provocative ending theory. -
The question is: Are you so conservative that you don't even realize how conservative BSG is?
I believe the answer is: Yes, you're a totally conservative douchebag. Otherwise you'd have realized as you were watching the show that it's politics were fucked up.
Try to make a case that BSG isn't conservative. I dare you. Being a conservative yourself means you're probably not smart enough to do it.
Better yet, make a case for how the ending of "Razor" wasn't some of the most ultra-conservative bullshit in a sci-fi show, like, EVER. Good luck, you'll need it. -
...but I did not install any kind of smell into my talkback post, so that just tells me that you are a lying-motherfucker. Also, my non-ending would have been a better BSG finale than the abortion we saw last week, and you know it!
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because I read your post about Grant Morrison in the comic book talkback.
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If Greystone did this and the climate of the time was terrorism,religious upheaval and the like then it would explain why there were no more skin jobs made....but it may also explain resurrection which the humans of BSG had no idea of also when the attacks began.
As for BSG mythology/time line being disrupted by this series...well myths and legends have to start somewhere and Caprica may shed some light on the truth and show why myth and legend began.
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