Cool News
UPDATED!! ‘She Will Not Fail Us!!’ SciFi Launches The Last Episode Of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA Ever!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
UPDATE: At Monday's screening of the "Battlestar Galactica" series finale in Manhattan, series mastermind Ronald D. Moore fielded spoiler-rich post-screening questions. You can find Discover Magazine's report on that session here.
You can find Chicago Tribune writer Maureen Ryan's spoiler-happy discussion of the finale with Moore here.
I am – Hercules!!
Erin Fox of TV Guide.com, who attended Monday’s screening of the "Battlestar Galactica" finale at the upfronts in New York, says this:
"The first hour-and-a-half of the finale is so intense, you'll find it difficult to breathe. So many questions will be answered — including some you probably thought wouldn't be addressed due to time constraints."
I have many questions. Like who just keeps spare Starbucks lying around?
Around the 34-minute mark of the podcast for “Island in a Stream of Stars,” Ron Moore says Cylon model seven, Daniel, is not Kara Thrace’s daddy – nor does Daniel have any role in the series beyond explaining why there didn’t seem to be a seventh model.
Was John Cavil, or one of his agents, driving the car that killed Laura Roslin’s father and sisters? Did Cavil need to drive Roslin to pursue a political career, to become the leader of all humanity?
For the final scene of the Young Husker Adama webisode series, we inexplicably leapt ahead 40 years to see the devious undercover Cylon Doral arrange for Lee Adama to be assigned to Galactica just prior to the genocidal launch of Cylon War II. Why?
Why were the faces of Cylon resurrection scientists Saul, Ellen, Sam, Tory and Galen in the algae planet’s Temple of Five? The final five Cylons were born 2,000 years ago. The temple was built by the 13th colony at least 1,000 years earlier.
The Sacred Scrolls say that the Temple of Five was dedicated to the five priests who worshiped "the one whose name cannot be spoken." Who’s that Voldemorty figure? A hot young computer genius named Zoe Greystone, we will learn in the coming series “Caprica,” turned the Caprican Cylons into monotheists back when Bill Adama was still a preteen.
Why does Hera draw “All Along the Watchtower”? Why has Kara been painting The Eye of Jupiter since she was a lass? Why did Galactica happen upon the algae planet just as its sun was going supernova?
Why can Baltar stick his consciousness in environments the way the Cylons can? Why does Laura Roslin share dreams with Six and Eight?
What do the Cylons want with Hera? Are they slapping on tailfins and swapping out her carburetor?
Whether or not the series finale of “Battlestar Galactica” is good, it will be big. Ron Moore has said in interviews that he plundered the NBC Universal treasury to make the finale.
SciFi says of tonight’s two-hour “Battlestar Galactica,” titled “Daybreak: Part 2”:
As conflicts reach a climax, Cylons and humans face a stark choice.
Remember that this is end, but it isn’t. Jane Espenson’s script for the Cylon-centric prequel “The Plan” was shot last summer and will likely air this autumn. The pilot for the “Caprica” prequel series hits DVD next month
and the “Caprica” series proper begins shooting this summer.
Want to see somebody use the iPhone’s Cylon Detector app on the adorable Katee Sackhoff during her Q&A at KUFO-FM’s “Daybreak: Part 1” screening last Friday in Oregon? Beware spoilers and click here.
Note that tonight’s installment begins an hour early and runs two hours and 10 minutes.
9 p.m. Friday. SciFi.
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
60% Off GALACTICA!!
Season One: $23.99!!
Season Three: $23.99!!
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
60% Off GALACTICA!!
Season One: $23.99!!
Season Three: $23.99!!
-
+ Expand All
-
Anyhoo, I have to say, I was pretty disappointed with last weeks episode. Nothing seemed to happen. At all. So of course that have to explain everything in the first 30 minutes of this ep, because they've been lazy about doing it in the last several.
-
You will be missed
-
Agreed that last week appeared to be nothing more than filler but there's one good thing to come out of this series' demise and that's Edward James Olmos' skin will no longer be visible in front of my eyeballs! Some actors just dont have faces fit for hi-def. ...yeah, i'm looking at you Fishburne!!
-
a spoiler free review and the dude said everything and then some shall be answered. I'm getting fucking anxiety waiting to watch this thing......
-
They have been low after in recent weeks, but some of the comments from the reviewers who saw the preview are starting to get my expectations rising.
-
BSG will be remembered by me as one of the greatest, serious, and ambitious science fiction series ever. Thank you Ron Moore & Company.
-
The best show on TV in a long time. I am going to miss all of the characters so much. Heres to the ending !!!!!!!!
-
And look forward to the spin-offs.
-
See "Last frakkin" special" before entering 2nights final....
-
1 DOWN 2 TO GO.And what the frack we are going to watch after the finals of Lost and 24?
-
My thoughts exactly. I've already cancelled cable and am going 100% antenna after tonight.
-
Antenna?? hope you mean digital antenna!
-
Was driving the car that killed Roslin's Father and sisters. Why else was he later shown drunk? It makes perfect sense. As to other questions, some are more relevant than others. I hope most are answered tonight.
-
... on this ep as fast as possible after it finishes? I'm halfway across the world and need to be on the road somewhere at 7am GMT time. Ideas?
-
Hope it's all not some Virtual Reality/Vanilla sky explanation, where they have plugged themselves into some shared consciousness so as to forget losing members of their family.
-
Best show ever without Twilight Zone in the title.
-
The Cylon Basestar is sitting on the edge of a black hole. You just know they're going to use it to mess with time, shunt Starbuck and the five all over the place, and create the 'All this has happened and will happen again' schtick
-
While I didn't support the direction the series eventually took, I'm glad it was there to take the chances it did. It worked hard to elevate the genre to a more dramatic level, and that's what it will likely be remembered for.
-
Mar 20, 2009 6:33:58 AM CDT
Women, especially wives, are the "Red Shirts" of BSG
by kentucky colonel
Whilst being unemployed, and painting every room in my house, I ve been re-watching the entire series to get ready for tonight's finale. Upon doing so I came to a stark realization:
Just as in Star Trek where you wouldn't want to be caught dead wearing a red shirt (because you soon would become a burn out rotten piece of meat) the same can be said for the women, especially the wives, on BSG. Need proof?
Bill Adama's Wife, nuked on Caprica. Ellen Tigh, executed. Callie Tyrol, airlocked. Sharon/Athena/Boomer killed more times then I can remember. Caprica Six (and all the other Sixes) likewise. Deanna Boxed. Dee commits suicide. Laura is dying/near death/ been saved by cylon blood only to relapse. Kara has even bit the dust once. Cat, although in an act of self-redemptive sacrifice, did the Kobiashi Maru thang and ate it. And depending on your point of view, Mr. Gaeta (probably a "catcher") gets the firing squad treatment. Oh, and the one guy's wife who was shanghaied by Cain's crew who shot her between the eyes...not to mention Cain and the one gal (Kendra?) from the Razor episode. Who am I forgetting?
In fact, the only women who haven't died (at least once) have been Selix and the Baltar Babes.
If you ever find yourself on Galactica, pray you have a swinging dick, and for frak's sake don't fall in love with anyone! -
Why Caprica? Why not a show that comes AFTER the events of the series finale? Sigh...
-
In yerterday's STYLE section of the Washington Post there was a great article about a screening of the final episode they held the other day for some UN delegates and invited guests. During the session, on the floor of the General Assembly, Eddie Olmos intoned "So Say We All" and many in attendance replied in kind. How fucking cool is that. Whoopie Goldberg, who was a moderator, said "I can't believe you got to do that at the UN" (I paraphrase). I have to take the boy to day care now, but if you go to the Post's website I'm sure there is still a link. I'll post it when I get back...and I wouldn't be supprised if Ron Moore & Co. don't have video of it on the website sometime soon!
-
"and for frak's sake don't fall in love with anyone!"
Not a problem. While some are hot, they are all such loathsome characters.
-
http://www.un.org/webcast/SE2009.html
You just know AICN's crappy engine will have inserted spaces in that URL, so take them out.
On the page, check out the entries for March 17th.
You'll need Real Player, or something that can take an RM video stream. -
We’re talking about a science fiction show, we’re talking about the humanity we live in today. I still find it incredible that we still use word "race" as a cultural determinant... I detest what we’ve done to ourselves. Out of a need to make ourselves different from one another, we’ve made the word "race" a way of expressing culture. There’s no such thing — and all you high school students, bless your hearts for being here. You're a hundred champions right now that are going to go out understanding this. The adults in the room will never understand, even though they'll nod their heads and say "you’re right." They'll never be able to stop using the word "race" as a cultural determinant. I just heard one of the most prolific statements done by one of the great humanitarians, he’s really trying to organize and bring us together, and he used the word "race" as if there is a Latino race, an Asian race, an indigenous race, a Caucasian race. There’s no such thing as a Latino race. There never has been. There never will be. There's only one race, and that's what the show brought out. That is the human race, period.
The question becomes, why did we start to use race a cultural determinant? The truth is that over six hundred years ago, the "Caucasian race" decided to use it as cultural determinant so it would be easier for them to kill another culture. That was the total understanding. To kill one culture from another culture. You couldn't kill your own race. So you had to make them the other. And to this day, I spent 37 years of my adult life trying to get this word out, and now I am well prepared as the Admiral of the Battlestar Galactica to say to all of you: there is but one race. That is it! So say we all!"
(And the audience responded with "So say we all" )
Elmos: "So say we all!"
(audience bellows "So say we all!")
Elmos: "SO SAY WE ALL!"
(And there was much yelling and cheering) -
I've never wanted a fucking EDIT feature implemented on this site, as much as I do now.
-
Prepare to yawn.
-
thus triggering the Big Bang and resetting the universe. This has all happened before, and will happen again.I am kinda sad that we never got an Imperious Leader or Lucifer, but happy to see the show doing out on a high note instead of dragging out a slow death for years like so many other scifi shows.
-
Seriously this is the best sci fi series ever on tv. It's even better watching it a second time on the dvds. You can pick up on a lot of stuff you missed first time around.
Here's to a great ending. *toast* -
So say we all, muthafucka!
-
and I'll forgive the aimlessness of the past half season. I love that piece of music and think it should totally find its way into the finale.
-
Herc: Dude, it was a car accident. Why aren't you asking who put the pigeon in Lee's apartment? That's a far more compelling question.
-
The cops even said they have the guy who did it. People are putting way too much emphasis in a car crash.
-
And DOCTOR WHO probably won't air on Siffy again until 2010. Here's hoping Ron Moore and Co. can pull all these loose ends together for a decent finale.
-
Poison? Poison Gas? Stab Wound? Energy weapon shot? How does the Doctor bite it?
-
...I love BSG.... and I do not mean the above comment as a slight in anyway....
-
Feel free to join in the fun
-
If you believe The Sun, The Master is returning for David Tennant's final episode. Hopefully, he's over his fondness for birdcages by now.
-
As I will be watching my torrented BSG: The Last Frakkin special, followed by the series finale. It's been a fun ride... great series. Too bad it's almost impossible to get anyone to watch it because of the supreme geek-sounding name of the show. I got a few people into it, and they in turn got some of their friends into it too (some of which just recently and watched the whole series in a couple of days!). Now there will be no reason to watch ShytFy, except to melt your brain with shitty "originals" or those idiotic ghost hunting snorefests. You will be missed BSG! So frakking say we all!
-
Here's to the series finale!
-
Was she killed? She seemed to disappear.
-
I imagine those words will be uttered by the promised Gay character tonight.
-
Doctor can't die by gas.
Timelords can live for a short while in the vacuum of space too.
I would think he dies the same way Kenny did recently. -
After the resurrection hub was destroyed there was only one Xena model left. Once they found that Earth was a nuclear wasteland, the last Xena decided to stay on Earth where she presumably died of radiation poisoning.
-
How do know we didn't get an Imperious Leader? This is judt off the top of my head right now, but who's the old Hybrid guy who said something like the Cylons call him "God"? Could be. Even if he isn't referred to as such.
I've also got a pretty cool Pythia theory that I never thought of before but it just hit me as so obvious. But I don't wanna fool myself into thinking I'm right.I'd rather just watch it & accept it as entertainment, instead of wishing for my theories to be right.
Damn, I've gotta get off this talkback soon. I've got 2 days to wait until I can see the show. Torture. -
I forgot about that. Age and memory and explorations of the minds inner realms during ones younger days do not always quite jibe.
-
Mar 20, 2009 8:16:03 AM CDT
I think the Doctor Should Find the Key to Time Again...
by darfurontherocks
He should use the Key to unlock time-locked events like the destruction of Galifrey. The Time Lord Society should give him another set of regenerations a la Master in order to keep WHO going past my our life-times....
-
...even if the finale turns out to be dogshit. Fingers crossed.
I just want to say how rare is is to catch a great show while it is actually on the air and in its prime. BSG has been truly special, a mature show tackling adult issues. Even if the past few episodes have not lived up to my expectations, on balance this is still my favorite sci-fi series of all time. Good job, and I hope to see these writers and actors continue this standard of excellence. -
I know it means little to anyone else (and is a tad arrogant), but I enjoy that this is the finale for one simple reason: I can now freely read the script of the finale that I've had on my desk since frakking July. Long story short: good friend of mine worked on the set, got my picture on the memorial wall during the scene where Olmos took Hera's picture down. When I saw him last summer, he presented me with set swag. Among it, a set of Tyrol's rank pins and a script of "Daybreak". Needless to say, the urge to open it and spoil the whole damn thing for myself and my ladyfriend has been strong, but I managed to keep it alligator-clipped shut for the last 8 months. No more though. After tonight, it just becomes another pile of paper.
-
It is ludicrous that a view would be required to listen to a podcast to rule out red-herrings tossed into the narrative.
Herc, quit wondering about the Roslin family car-wreck. Cavil could not have known she would enter politics, nor that she would be in power being 34th in line of succession.
Last weeks ep was awful by itself, but might be acceptable as act 1 of a three part finale. -
Some will be disappointed because no matter what it may be, no one will ever do anything that completely satisfies everyone. However, I am confident that RDM will bookend this series well, and that it will be well remembered for a long time. Like Babylon 5 or LOST, this is another one of those series that will make a fine addition to the DVD collection, and probably will actually get watched again and again. Enjoy it tonight my fellow fans, and many thanks to all involved in creation of BSG, it's been a great ride. :)
-
...that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now, fight to survive, somewhere, beyond the heavens...
good. bad. I just hope I get to hear a big Stu Phillips flourish as the show FTB's. -
Mar 20, 2009 8:34:56 AM CDT
I still remember that scene from the first season...
by -guyinthebackrow
Right before the humans airlock that one Cylon (the one that likes to mess with Starbuck) he tells the President, and I quote, "Adama's a Cylon." Now, was he just fucking with the President? Or what? Was he talking about the Captain or Lee? Was he lying?
-
"Daniel Was Battlestar's Biggest Fiasco, Says Ron Moore" check io9.com front page for article. No, it's not kara's dad!
-
He'll get bitched slapped by a Dalek for sure.
-
Black Market was.
-
Mar 20, 2009 8:51:38 AM CDT
madam president to get ganged bang by the admiral and son
by greekloveropa
that dirty cancer whore
-
Or.. you could just watch the show and enjoy it how it's meant, instead of clowning around on the internet, looking for attention.
-
As much as I've had issues with the last season, I'm going to genuinely miss the show. It was regularly the best show on TV, and the characters and the old Galactica herself will be missed. I hope she gets a viking funeral.
-
Mar 20, 2009 8:57:44 AM CDT
To hell with the Emmy's forever if Olmos gets snubbed again.
by bigbaldpapa
The man is a force of nature and Bill Adama will go down forever as one of TV's best heroes.
-
...it's been an honor. Now...ROLL CALL, BITCHES!!! SOUND OFF!!!SO SAY WE ALL!!!
-
er... how about first reading why Ron Moore says Daniel is a fiasco, before redirecting that comment to whatever other pet peeve you have?
-
...this finale can be as good as the AMAZING, BEST EVER, should-be-released-in-theaters Season 2 finale. Do you remember that? Two hours, spanning years of time...more plot twists than I could possibly take in. CLEARLY the high-point of the series, however exciting this last season has been.
But nevertheless, I'm interested to see how Moore finishes up the show.
I do hope it's better than the—I'm sorry—horrible DS9 finale. I just finished watching that series for the first time, and was let down completely by the drab ending. Meh. -
Yes, I did read the article. My point still stands. As for live-tbing, I was just indicating to others that I will be here to join them in discussion during the episode. But you're not invited anymore. Sorry.
-
For the last time ... well, until Caprica. Although I somehow suspect the Caprica movie talkback will be *very* odd since it's being released on DVD, what, 9 months before shown on TV?
-
SO say we all!
-
Legend of the Seeker. After tonight, Seeker will be the number one show on tv.
-
I remember the old days, when we were discussing the first season of Battlestar long before it aired in America. I think that SkyTV deal introduced an entire generation of sci-fi fans to BitTorrent. I expect "The Plan" will be the same.
-
10,000,000 quatloos to whoever gets that reference
-
No...really. He is.
-
Er, I mean the "Caprica" talkback will be the same, not "The Plan."
-
The last few weeks this talkback has been full of bitching and pissing and moaning, and now everybody is getting sentiental. For good reason, mind you, because tonight is the end of one of the greatest tv shows ever. But wow, what a bunch of double minded people.
-
I really dug the last two eps. The only down note this half-season has been the Espenson episode.
-
Fair enough. Come to think of it, you seem to have been pretty constant, along with a few others. But the overall tone this week is just so different from the last few. Oh well. Can't wait till 08:00 tonight.
-
Hope it is epic, and if it's not does not matter show is still good.
-
Having been a fan of comics and science fiction for as long as I can remember, as I'm sure most of you have, I truly do not feel that mainstream media has ever seen a more well-rounded, easily-accessible, intelligent, relevant story anywhere near the capacity of BSG. I was not interested at first...and like so many people I have recently fought to enlighten, I mistook it for more SciFi channel/Star Trek-type cheese. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek and Star Wars, but I'm somehow more confident that one day I can sit and watch this show with my daughter...I'm less confident about that happening with the other aforementioned series. With the exception of Anders, every actor on this show has been at the top of their game, and destroyed any preconcieved notions about how well a SciFi series cast can be. And Anders only pales in comparison next to folk like Olmos and Callis and Sackhoff. I have laughed, wept, pondered intensely, gotten chills, and literally been afraid for humanity with this show. I feel I have gained a part-time dad with the Admiral, a cantankerous old uncle with Tigh, a brother I can look up to in Lee, and a crazy sister-in-law with Thrace(whom I want to frak badly.) I have faith in tonight's finale. I am certain this show is about to blow our minds and secure its legacy among geeks everywhere....and secure a whole new geek fanbase. Happy viewing, my friends. So say we all!
-
Moore does not explicitly say that Daniel is not Starbuck's dad, does he? I've not listened to the commentary yet but the transcript I saw and the stuff I saw on io9 only has Moore saying that Daniel isn't a big deal and that the character won't play a big role in the finale. That does not automatically mean that he is not Starbuck's dad. It may imply it and it may be the truth but to say that he explicitly says it is not accurate.
-
Mar 20, 2009 9:37:55 AM CDT
BSG is good, but not "best best ever"
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
You people need to stop with the big old circle jerk. There's going to be good stuff, bad stuff, stuff answered, stuff left unanswered. You need to accept that. If you are actually queer enough to get on-line and post while the show is going on, you are a loser. It's bad enough that here we are at the 10 and a half hour mark posting...
-
Since Baltar refused to cross the rose line/roslin (see what I did there? yep, I plagiarized EW.com's Recap) he's pretty much the only main character not going after Hera. I'm thinking that fact will end up making him the leader of the colonists when they do find a home. Of course, that prediction sort of presupposes the BSG doesn't make it back. Hmmm ... there's a thought chain here I'm not going predisposed to descend (or defend), so I'll just say Baltar's in charge and leave it at that.
Does anyone else wonder if the Cavil and his allied cylons are redeemable? Or is termination of Cavil et al. the only possible end for them? -
It's hard to believe we're finally at the end. It's been a great ride and I'm sure there will be plenty to discuss after the finale.As for CAPRICA, the DVD release is a little odd. Maybe they think it will help drum up interest or something by getting the word out early.
-
Ok, I'm sorry man. Sorry for expressing MY FUCKING OPINION. I will stop immediately because apparently it upsets you to see people giving remembrance to a show we've spent years watching. I do agree that if you're TBing while watching, you're addicted to the internet and need therapy. Give the show the attention it deserves.
-
All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again ;)
-
Adama, the elder, steps into the Raptor. Lee is standing off to the side watching. As the Raptor takes off, Adama looks out the window to see where Lee has written on the floor with pieces of scrap metal : I'm a Cylon.
Fade to Black. Cue revised Galactica March.
Roll Credits and then commercial for owning a piece of Galactica history.
-
I spend very little time on the Internet. I just spend the time I do have on *important things*
-
because everything after tonight will be considered fodder for when the channel actually jumped the shark.
bring on the law & order marathons in july. -
Mar 20, 2009 9:48:55 AM CDT
I didn't say your opinion was invalid.
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
It's just that, an opinion. I enjoy reading all the possible scenarios and foofarah and all that crap. Really. But, you understand that we need to take a stand and have AICN lock down the TB between 8 and 10:10 CST so that the techno nerds don't post during the show or even the commercial breaks. That's the stand we must take. Besides, who would actually be reading during the show. Give the old girl the respect she deserves. Have a 40 for your homies.
-
They know it means Syphilis in Eastern Europe (was it Poland?) so they're going to use it as an excuse to come up with an entirely different name that barely resembles Sci Fi (you know, just like the network)
-
Ha! Touche.
-
Look, no one is forcing you to be in the talkback during the two hours, just don't read the post afterwards if it offends your nerd sympathies. Just because you're incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time doesn't mean that those of us with more than half a brain should be denied the ability to.
-
Its a pretty old superstition, but I'm not sure where it comes from. But that's probably why its there.
-
Now, let's get on with the Mork and Mindy reboot. NaNoo NaNoo.
-
to clean up, and my inbox as well. I'll pop back in tonight for the big event. Be good to each other kiddies.
-
Mar 20, 2009 9:55:56 AM CDT
But, Bird pooping on you is good luck
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
And we all know how messy pigeons are. Damn gutter birds.
-
It's tough seeing probably the best television series ever go away - but bless them for not flogging a dead horse and milking another season. I'm certain tonight's finale will be spectacular, and I won't be surprised to shed a few tears. Thanks to everyone who made this fantastic piece of entertainment possible.
-
Waiting for the full on eventual Blu-ray box set for the series. Just couldn't get over Lt. Castillo from Miami Vice in outer space! ;-)
-
Mar 20, 2009 10:00:43 AM CDT
* Cues up Bear McCreary's "A Good Lighter" and raises glass *
by spyguy
It's gonna be hard to see the Galactica finally go down, but here's hoping the old girl goes out in a blaze of glory...
-
An end to all the EJO blasts on the Rome show.
(AM1300 on your radio dial 11-2pm in Austin TX, where it's sunny and warm and the girls are wearing short pants...) -
So Say We All.
-
So lame I can't even spell it right.
-
And by "good," I don't mean a finale stuffed to the gills with Michael Bay explosions, but a finale that's actually filled with excitement, great character interaction, and progresses the plot--which is basically what none of the episodes in S4 has managed to accomplish thus far (besides the Gaeta rebellion, which had very limited plot significance).
I'm crossing my fingers here and hoping that RDM can make this series end on a good note. I mean, he brought us S1 and S2 of BSG, which is probably some of the best TV ever made. . .I don't see why he can't make this series finale equally amazing. -
Mar 20, 2009 10:21:05 AM CDT
I'm giving up on BSG FOREVER if this episode is bad
by christian_bale_trashed_my_lights
Now, that's quite a threat.
-
After BSG gracefully leaves, I think we can all safely say that SIFFY is pretty much over. Really looking forward to this episode!
-
and it almost made me weapy. It's finally time for me to get off my cheap tightwad ass and buy the dvd's so I can start reliving it all from the begining to end.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08VCkyG_C2s
-
You won't be watching Caprica?
I know it's a different sort of show than Battlestar, but it still has Battlestar's writers.
I wouldn't write Syfy's obituary yet. -
SIFFY clings on!
-
I remember that superstition, but I thought it was when a bird flew into the window of your house.
I'm sure there's several variations. -
We're all going to at least give the pilot a chance. I just hope there's some good pussy in it.
-
V'Shael, we don't need more than one Elmo, thanks. Multiple "Elmos" are just too much!
-
Now with BSG going off the air can we get some love for Supernatural. Serious IGN even talks about it last nights episode scored a Ten on the reader review. Both actors and the show itself should be up for emmys .So when is this site going to have a Talkback for it I know alot of people would enjoy talking about one of the best shows on TV right now (the others shows being 24 and Criminal Minds for me). So please make with the TalkBack already
-
isn't 2 hours reall "1 hour and 20 minutes" these days? or is this actually 2 hours, spread across 3 hours, with 1 hour of commercials (20 minutes for each 40 of actual show). whatever
-
amazing last night and went places no network show has EVER gone (that I've seen)... give the damn show some credit and get it a talkback!
-
Since Party Down starts up tonight on Starz; that's Rob Thomas' other show besides the maybe already-doomed Cupid reboot. Has Enrico Colantoni in the premiere; Herc, hope you can post a talkback for that starting next week; putting in my request now.
-
As being some of the best television ever for about two and a half seasons. But then it turned into a muddled mess around the end of the third season and never really recovered. I think the writers somehow forgot that "character" works so much better on the page than on the screen. I mean, Moore keeps saying "it's about the characters." Well, that's true but when you're watching a visual medium you're seeing what the characters are DOING. How the characters interact with the plot points. When you take away the plot points, you're left with a lot of people just walking around and talking, which is absolutely boring.
-
The 'three hour' season finale is actually 130 minutes or so, with about 50 minutes of commercials. That's what we call 'feature-length.'
-
re cat licking paws, what drugs are u on?
-
An extreme closeup of Boomer's tight, pulsing asshole.
-
If you're DVRing, make sure you set it to record till 11:15. The episode supposedly runs 2 hours and 11 minutes.
-
Grace Park is yummy, whoever is fucking her is a lucky guy
-
Nice one
-
Slipping and hitting his head. That's how I was sure this incarnation would die when he referenced it in the x-mas special. It has lost its novelty now that Natasha Richardson has died.
I think it will be either a gigantic big deal death or something seemingly senseless like a bump on the head. -
Sounds like an AICN username if ever there was one.
-
everyone is a human, there is no distinquishment of cylon, badically the "humans" will have to give up this difference to ensure peace
-
Why in the hell did the noids at Fox not hold out the new Dollhouse? Ain't nobody going to be watching it opposite the finale tonite. Fox programmers are idiots.
-
So right. And where did the extra Ellen body come from? Cavil kept one around in his closet?
-
battlestar galactica, welcome to my all-time hall of fame.
-
if BSG was a sci fi in the first place the channel wouldve never whored itself to mainstream dummies. but BSG proved to them that its possible to have a pretend scifi channel---for the pretend nerds that somehow get laid more than they should. thats why stargate is respected by the scientific community and they enjoy it immensely. BSG is like a collection of diarrhea.at least that shit is over and done with.
-
..is the reason I will now make every effort to live talkback during the east coast airing.
-
I think I read or heard in a podcast that, you're to assume Cavil has multiple copies of each of the final five stored away.Remember, his intention was that they all get resurrected at some point so that he can show them the error of their ways.Its unfortunate that they didn't make this point more clear in the show itself. My guess is we're also to assume that Cavil somehow has an entire portion of a baseship or resurrection area off-limits to the other Cylons to store these bodies.
-
I think that's what the upcoming "The Plan" tv-movie is for.
-
amp up the bagpipes section.
-
Wonder what the hell is going on there. Also, wondering what the final shot will be? Will it be as rumored? Even though I have less than 8 hrs. the suspense is killing me. Here's to the finale.
-
...ejaculation at the same time. to symbolize the end of a shitty show.
-
Or better yet, a Blu-ray set?
-
by two cylons. thats the end. two dicks crossing swords, smashing into starbuck's rear. what a fucked up show this is.
-
Kindly troll a different tb, please. kthxbye!
-
Someday you might accidentally say something funny.
-
Im informing people on how bad this show is. and that there are better shows like stargate, that are actually scifi and not some tearfest balltwister.
-
here's the actual clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08VCkyG_C2s&feature=related
-
don't feed him.
unless, of course, you're feeding him with his mother's clit. which, I must say, is delicious... -
why not do a stargate talkback instead. BSG is like what they force you to watch in prison.
-
plays Anders? I heard that he was in an accident and BSG had to change the storyline. Any truth to this and if so what happened. Thanks.
-
Oh come the fuck on. What about Dualla? What about Adama? What about Number 8/Boomer? What about Number 4? What about Tory Foster? Methinks your grasping at straws. Although, its true, that the show is predominantly white, SO IS NEARLY EVERY FUCKING AMERICAN TV SHOW. Seriously.
-
Did you suddenly realize how UNBELIEVABLY STUPID it was?
-
the screen doesn't say, "The conclusion, of the end, of Battlestar Galactica will return next October."
-
is that the last 2 hours are very very good.
Not that the AICNTB hate machine won't bash it... -
Probably the most prominent would have been Elosha, the priest who was the President's friend and advisor in the first two seasons. Other than that on the show there's Simon, one of the Cylon models, and Skulls who generally flew Raptors with Racetrack as ECO, and special mention to Bulldog, the guest star who had a whole episode centred on him to the general disinterest of all. Given all the prominent Hispanic and Asian characters and other ethnicities represented, the lack of prominent black characters is surely just a coincidence and a sign of the lack of tokenism in the show's casting. But why let the facts get in the way of a good snide remark, eh Merrick?
-
haven't heard that theory. Never thought of it till now.
That would help to make sense. -
by season two BSG had already gotten way way too pretentious. Sure, at the start we all loved that a sci fi show was gritty and also getting some serious writing, casting and acting. It was the new Babylon 5 only done with HBO production values. Great, fantastic, loved it. But then the producers forgot that the drama enhanced the action and sci fi'iness of it. Without the action and Sci fi it was just another soap opera. Gradually all we got were very brief scenes of Raptors flying, a glimpse of a metal Cylon and a quick shot of Galatical (actual). Apart from that we had repeated shots of books, photos, picture frames etc with the corners sawn off to prove to us that it was 'in da fyoocha'. The last bunch of seasons was enterminable bouts of navel gazing, whining from the 'get the frak over yourself' likes of Starbuck. BSG started off great like Heroes but then went down the flusher real quick. I'm soooooo glad it's over. I don't think i could stand another season of frikkin whining from just about every single character. What a piece of garbage it became. I wanted a gritty as fuck all out space war with the Cylons with 'ala Aliens' great writing, acting and casting to make it even greater but all we got was bull . . . shit
-
your mom loved to play with your dick when you were just kid because she got no action from your dad. she almost put her tongue on it but came back to her senses...and ever since then she unleashes her anger at you to suppress her self-pity and guilt.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_TruccoAccording to that, he was in a car accident in December 2007 that resulted in them having to fuse some of his spine. No idea how this effected his character's storyline though, if at all.
-
"Why were the faces of Cylon resurrection scientists Saul, Ellen, Sam, Tory and Galen in the algae planet’s Temple of Five? The final five Cylons were born 2,000 years ago. The temple was built by the 13th colony at least 1,000 years earlier."----- In "No Exit" Cavil asks this question to Ellen, and she indicates that the image of the FF was not there when they stopped on the way to reach Earth.
This is one of many changes and prophecies generally attributed to God. -
Not that I really want to get flamed, but why exactly are you trolling this board when you have an obviously rather large dislike/hate for this show?You can't change other people's opinions of this show by posting here and, even if you could, its too late since it's ending tonight.
-
im happy its over too. now we can all sleep soundly tonight knowin fully that such a crappy show died like a rotten corpse waiting for the worms to consume it. but im sure some silly fan will still want to stick his stinky dick in that rotten corpse just for the memories.
-
"This is one of the many changes and prophecies generally attributed to God."So far... it seemed to me that she may have been covering something up with the way she said that.Perhaps the Final Five put into place some contingency plans in case the Colonial Cylons turned on them?
-
Mar 20, 2009 12:39:50 PM CDT
BSG is more than what we, and SCI FI Channel, deserve
by darfurontherocks
Seriously
-
I pulled my initial comment because I was attempting to reword it & expand upon it. Of course, many nationalities *are* represented on the show (and, indeed, there are several characters who are black on the show). All I was attempting to say...and perhaps I did it poorly...is that many of the black characters on this BSG iteration seemed occasional/subordinate (except for Dualla). In the original series, for example, both Tigh and Boomer were black - major players who were constantly there. Do any of the black characters in this iteration hold the same stature? Asking genuinely...NOT in an effort to induce flaming and attacks. I'm *genuinely* not trying to start some sort of bitter debate, or level any kind of accusation, and I'm not trolling around looking to start a fight on the day this series wraps up. I'm just mentioning something I've noticed from time to time on the show, as have people around me, as have people I know who work on the series.
I was really mentioning it more for discussion than degradation or insult. I'll really miss BSG - I'll miss its boldness (most shows on TV these days are far too chicken as far as I'm concerned). It was an institution - and, no matter how good CAPRICA may be (and I hear the pilot movie is quite well done, by the way) - BSG will still be missed.
-
Some spoilage...
http://news.bostonherald.com/entertainment/television/reviews/view/2009_03_20_%E2%80%98Galactica__journey_ends_with_uneven_finale/srvc=home&position=3 -
Trucco said specifically that he worked like crazy to be back in working condition before filming started. The fact that his character's bee in a coma was just an ironic coincidence.
-
believe me BSG after awhile will be forgotten and only remembered as a waste of time spent. it has a short-life expectancy. heck the fans almost forgot it existed when they split the season. however other shows like stargate, have high life expectancy and will live in your minds for a long time.
-
If BSG makes you cry, that makes you a pussy.
-
how can you say that BSG is good? its a racist show.
-
I think it would be cool if all this is happening in the future and us current earthlings are the ones that become the in-head people who are pulling the strings.
-
Through ups and downs - highs and lows - this show has always pushed the envelope. I'll miss the characters - but mostly I'll miss it's big ass heart.
-
BSG is for cunts like yourself. sad thing is you dont know it yet. let me guess, u like to hang out in night clubs just to rub ur penis onto girls and then go home in time to jerk off while watching BSG.
-
The insurgency on New Caprica was probably the most viscerally real and relevant TV in this genre since the original Star Trek - and yet far more powerful.
-
BSG is extremely racist, mainly because it is a nazi show. but stargate always had people from all ethnic backgrounds.
-
...you're right. But when it comes to science fiction shows the only one I can think of that had an African-American in a real position of power was DS9. So it's not just BSG.
-
DANIEL IS NOT KARA'S FATHER!!! Moore has said it explicitly. The show has made this clear with no less than three blood tests.
To whomever was asking why Leoben said "Adama is a Cylon"... Leoben is a liar. He's lied multiple times throughout the series to get what he wants. Is there any surprise he would want to sew a rift between the two most important humans in the fleet?
To whomever was asking about Michael Trucco/ Sam Anders accident. Trucco wrecked his Ferarri, causing a scar on his neck. The writers used this as inspiration to change Anders into the prophecying hybrid we see today. Rumor says this ended a reunion of Lee and Kara (pissing me off endlessly).
Oh yeah: diox, you're still a shitheaded troll.
-
Actually, first I watch BSG, then I go out to nightclubs to practice "frotage" as the experts like to call it. Then I come home, watch BSG again, and THEN I jerk off. Meanwhile, you just stay home and jerk off during stargate. Quien es mas macho?
-
All he does is spam BSG Talkbacks. I say, SUMMON THE BAN HAMMER!(For old times' sake...)
-
Who left Adama that note that said "There are 12 Cylon Models" at the end of the miniseries? Interesting.
-
u are a menace. i hope ur filth remains within the BSG fan community.
-
C'mon really? Just because there are no african american characters in power then there's no race balance or the show is racist? How many people, regardless of race, are really in positions of power, i know i'm not, i know i'm a subordanite at job, that doesn't offend me nor does it make me feel bad. I think sometimes people go way overboard with the political correctness of it all.
-
just witness any of the T2 related talkbacks I've been involved in. BUT, your trolling, dioxholster, doesn't really make any sense. make fun of the show all you want, take pot shots at the melodrama and exaggerated gravitas, but, don't be retarded. There is nothing even remotely racist about BSG. Thanks.
-
Will turn out to be God. What if Cottle was one us?
-
Aint it cool news, it says COOL NEWS not boring smelly ass BSG news. u fuckers still carry ur mom's ass-smell from when u got out of her rotten cage. i just want to enlighten you guys but u keep outting me as a troll. why? is it because im nice enough to tell you that what you like to watch sucks beyond horrible annihilation status.
-
You're comparing Stargate to Galactica and you like Stargate better.... You're 9 years old aren't you? I bet you like watching wrestling too right?
-
With Anders hooked into it.
At least that's one douche's thoughts. -
Fue mas macho.
What's the extra ten minutes for? Just to frak with one's Tivo, I imagine. I hope all is explained in the last ten minutes. That would teach me! -
do i have to spell it out to you: stargate is the G-R-E-A-T-E-S-T thing to ever be on TV!!! BSG is poor special olympics induced sport influenced by lack of brain activity in the anus regions of underwater stinkage.
-
I'm expecting to like it more than he did...but I just knew the Baltar religious cult was going to run into trouble. I still think they made a mistake with the character of Baltar who was great up until the end of season 3.
-
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-battlestar20-2009mar20,0,4379589.story
Seems like they really are going to explain at least much of what I'm hoping to find out about. -
Without, many won't be able to form an opinion or figure it out. "Gee, I kind of thought DARK KNIGHT made no sense, but I better check the internet to see if someone agrees with me before I say it in public."
-
Seriously? You're joking, right? Its one of the worst tv shows of any genre I've ever seen. To each his own, I guess.
-
The whole Stargate is better is just a joke to rile us up! Good one...ok next?
-
It was the same as Defender, but had a Stargate in it.
-
a windup. There is no other logical reason for his constant posts about how "crappy" Galactica is. No-one should take this dweeb seriously from now on. Let's all laugh at the Stargate fan. Ho Ho Ho.
-
I think 1. Next Generation
2. Angel
3. ? -
Hands down.
-
"You... are number 6."
-
Probably before the new version comes out.
-
The big bald gurning black guy used to crease me up every time I looked at him.
-
And a damn fine show as well.
-
Its essential viewing.
-
You're paranoid.
Black characters on this show I can think of off the top of my head (I'm not talking about walk ons or people who asked "Would you like some more coffee", but people who actually affected the plot in some way):
Bulldog: Titular star of the episode Hero." Chosen to spy on the Cylons pre-attack because he was the best pilot in the fleet.
Dualla: Recurring character throughout the entire series till her suicide in the season opener S4.5. Married Lee Adama, convinced Adama to put the fleet back together after Roslin's departure/mutiny. Had a fling with Billy till she dumped him for Lee. Adama's personal confidant on many occassions.
Elosha: Spiritual advisor to Roslin. Identified Roslin as the Chosen Leader. Told Galactica and the fleet of the 13th tribe. Died on Kobol, fulfilling the prophecy of "a price in blood." Appeared as a vision to Roslin in 4.0.
The Gemenese representative: Religious politician who supported Roslin when she became a prophet of sorts. Turned on her when Roslin outlawed abortion. Came back frequently to argue points of religion and morality (especially when it was suggested that Gemenese citizens were being treated unfairly/left to die). Killed by Zarek in "Blood on the Scales."
Seelix' raptor partner: recurring raptor navigator who apparently wacks off loudly in his bunk in between recon missions.
The head of the Black Market: killed Battlestar Pegasus Commander Fisk. SHot in the head by Lee Adama.
Simon: One of the Cylon skinjobs. Removed Kara Thrace's ovary on New Caprica. The doctor among the Cylons. Cool and analytical.
.... Merrick, you should take another look at what Olmos said at the U.N. He'd argue your entire point is moot. But hey, maybe they should have instituted a quoata, you think? After all, this show has done NOTHING to suggest that race is irrelevant or that people should ignore racial boundaries and work together to better humanity, right? THat's not even impportant, is it? It's about making sure the numbers are equitable among the races, right?
I know you said you weren't looking to get flamed, but you ARE complaining about a lack of representation. What I am saying (and what I feel Olmos was getting at yesterday @ the UN) is that the number of black characters on this show IS ONLY IMPORTANT in regards to the broader issue of ensuring fairness among all people regardless of skin color as well as treating and considering the races as equals or considering the idea of "race" as an unnecessary and artificial descriptor and skincolor as an aesthetic having nothing to do with content of character.
Keeping that in mind, has BSG promoted a message that upholds and does service to that criteria?
I think the answer is a resounding "YES" in a way that only a few mainstream shows in U.S. television history can claim.
Your complaint is, IMO, insignificant in that light. That there are comparatively few blackskinned actors on this show is incidental. -
Right on! Definitely one of the best finales of all time!
-
"Stuff happened, then credits rolled."
-
I don't want this day to happen.
I want it to be rescheduled, rethought, removed and recalled.
Tomorrow the story will be over, my tale having been told, and never again will there be the sweet anticipation of waiting for the next episode to be shown to fans and friends. The thought of it makes my heart ache even as swells with pride.
All I know is that today there is a show called Battlestar Galactica and tomorrow there was.
There will be joy in that too, I'm sure, touching the thread of memory and feeling it resonate all the way back to soundstages, locations, cutting rooms, writers' rooms, and sound bays where I lived for all these years and being comforted by the knowledge that a part of me will never truly leave those places. There will be reunions and retrospectives, special editions and extended cuts, interviews and seminars. Solace can be found.
We'd called the last season Senior Year and here, today, as I prepare to present the final episode to an audience of friends, colleagues, and family, I find myself feeling the same way I did on Graduation day at Chowchilla Union High, all those years ago. The mosaic of faces I'd grown accustomed to seeing day after day would regroup for one last event, one last celebration of our lives together and what we'd done, and then it would be gone but for the transcendent threads of memory waiting to resonant down through the years. I didn't want that day to happen either and fervently wished for it to be rescheduled, rethought, removed and recalled.
Somehow I get the feeling that today's wish will not be granted either. So this day, like that one, will wax and wane and all I can do is ride the wave and let it carry me where it will.
Thank you, all of you for coming here through the years. The shippers and the haters, and everyone in between; you've watched and you've posted and you've been a touchstone for my experience with the audience ever since that night back in 2003 when we first declared that the Cylons were created by Man and things were going to be different. It's been a genuine pleasure to surf your thoughts, rants, questions, snarks, complaints, praise, and humor as you watched our story play out and rest assured I will be here again tomorrow poring through the posts, laughing, cursing, sometimes just shrugging at what you take away from this crazy show.
It's been an honor to be your storyteller.
Ronald D. Moore
About to be former Executive Producer of Battlestar Galactica -
IT'S EVERYTHING A FRAKING FINALE SHOULD BE!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03202009/tv/star_dust_160365.htm
-
I think he fucked Starbuck, his brother's girl, and was upset about it.
Maybe he didn't, but was drunk and angry about not being able to have her.
Or, it may be that he was drunk after hearing of Zak's death.
I kinda doubt that he was the one who killed Roslin's family. -
for a few jars, and when I come back I might even stay up to watch this. 6 hours to go?
-
Worst last episode is sadly "Seinfeld". It was a horrible way to end a truly great show.
-
Mar 20, 2009 1:59:38 PM CDT
anyone catch the probable spoiler from EJO's UN speech
by murdermostfowl
I won't say it here...
Watch it on youtube if you want to be spoiled... it's the emphasis he puts on a particular statement he says a couple of times and makes some rumors from quite awhile back in the BSG universe sound definitive. -
I think the choice to make him a prophet was a good one, but the harem didn't really work that well.
It was only natural (the harem, that it). It's a way to play up Baltar's humorous side as well as provide a sense of authority to Baltar by giving him lackeys who can visibly react to him.... but it just didn't quite work. I think that it's partially the actors fault for playing it a bit too brainless as acolytes; and a bit on the part of the writers for writing it that way and not showing their doubts in the faith and personal backstories. -
Watched it, but didn't catch what you refer to. Got a time reference?
-
POSSIBLE SPOILERS POSSIBLE SPOILERS POSSIBLE SPOILERS POSSIBLE SPOILERS
What EJO says @ 1:21 - 1:29 on this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSFDrOxWCXY
He says this several times, through out his whole speech, and it just stuck with me. Like I said in a previous post on last weeks BSG TB ( which lasted until last night, is that a record? )
I might bee making something out of nothing, but this possible spoiler has been talked about to death in the past, so no major surprise if, in fact, it's true. -
It's got to be the Zak thing. No way Lee killed Rosiln's family. I figured it's either someone random that is left unexplained or it is a cylon model.
-
by the use of a Naked Singularity as a defense mechanism for the Cylons colony. I just read about those in Scientific American a few weeks ago. They did a good job using the theoretical qualities of a NS to create a near foolproof defense system. Maybe ya'll already know this but a Naked Singularity is like a black hole, but it doesn't have an event horizon from which no light can escape. A Naked singularity is a star that collapses in on itself to form a tiny singularity with near infinite mass, just like a black hole, however, the makeup of the NS is such that some energy escapes and from certain vantages the singularity is theoretically observable. So, in one particular model, light coming in from most directions will be sucked into the intense gravity of the NS, but some will escape in a certain direction. If the Cylon colony is situated in the "sweet spot" where energy can escape the NS, but all the other directions are subject to the gravity of the singularity, it would make a great defense. A regular old black hole with an event horizon would not work because there would be no sweet spot to put the base in. This post probably would have been better on last weeks talkback, I haven't seen tonight's final episode yet. I will surely miss this show.
-
EJO makes a *So Say We All* speech.
Someone got lost in a role -
Enjoy the finale!! Will miss this talkback, the theories, etc.
-
I think we're all trying to be too literal with the flashbacks, at least in terms of figuring out their plot significance. The problem with the 4th season is that it's been so plotless that the fans are trying to stitch things like Daniel, Starbuck, the Daybreak flashbacks, etc into parts of the narrative in order to fill the remaining plot holes. I think we should look to Ron Moore and what he's been saying lately about how the final is "about the characters, stupid." I think the flashbacks are just to give us a some kind of "closing of the circle" between where the characters were before the miniseries and where they are at the end of the show. I don't think there's going to be some "plotty" reveal here at the end ("Cavil killed Laura's family!" "Lee is a cylon who fucked Starbuck with Zak!") or anything like that. I thik we're just supposed to drink them in as more "fleshing out" of the characters. That said, I think so far they're totally fucking needless. The fact that we're trying so hard to fit them into some kind of plot is proof positive to me that there hasn't been ENOUGH plot for quite a while.
-
he was one of the 1st generation human form Caprican Cylons made by the Earf Cylons.
In other words he was Able to Calvil's Cain.
There is still a missing Earf Cylon -
Im very sad indeed:(..but cant wait for the finale. I predict that Adama(snr) will buy the farm, as will either Helo or Tyrol..or both! Anyway i dont wany any oif them to go..thats what makes this sucjh an amazing show, theres not one character i want to see die..like in Lost, which i also love, you know that if say Julliet or Miles bought it you wouldnt really mind and actually anticipate a few deaths for the drama..not on BSG.
-
This would be a really bad time for someone to explode an electromagnetic pulse over the skies of the eastern United States
-
while stargate is just getting warmed up. and pls dont insult my intelligence, im not here for the green, im here to save you from urselves. see, im a nice guy, and us nice guys like to see things clean. if i find someone messing around i straighten him out. in this case, its BSG fans who are delusional to the extreme. BSG blinded your tastes. it made fools out of your dicks, and has your dick in a headlock. stop whoring urselves to crappy storytelling. watch something pure, like stargate, which btw is having another spin-off coming out this fall called Stargate Universe--it is deemed to be the most anticipated event this year as it defies conventional storytelling in exchange for something bold and new that will challenge our minds as well as entertain it. once you go stargate, you cant go back.
-
It's called Stargate: BSG Haters...there is a Stargate in this big dark basement, and every week BSG Haters from all over the universe use it to gather together and sodomize each other repeatedly while desperately chanting "We Know Good Sci-Fi" over and over in a pathetic attempt to convince themselves.
-
Clearly spoken as someone ignorant of the travesty of the Mork and Mindy finale! Trapped in space and time due to space boots, my ass. Sheesh. Kids today...
-
I wouldve done the EMP thing if it werent for the stargate universe trailer.
-
Still one of the best damn mini series.
-
Thanks for posting the link to the Original Galactica Herc. Classic BSG was really epic and huge back in the day, so much so Lucas decided to drag em to court for copyright infringement. Brings back fond memories, even just the 10 minutes or so I had time to watch. I'll be returning to work shortly to finish up the day with a really geeky smile on my face.
-
certain episodes and stretches of the show were utterly brilliant IMO.
the irony is that the show never got bogged down in technobabble, but it did get bogged down in mythology-babble. traded one for the other.
maybe there is no possible good way to explain and wrap up a TV show this emotionally complex anyway b/c as soon as all options are reduced to just one then your imagination is forced to disengage. in other words, the journey is always better than the destination.
thanks to Ron Moore and an incredible cast and crew for some of the most gripping TV i've ever seen. at times i was a full on junkie. -
I took him to say there were no major "Black" cast members (Dee had a supporting role)and his opinion was that there should have been. What's wrong with that?TNG had Leforge and Worf (technically a Black Klingon); DS9 had Sisko and eventually Worf; Voyager had Tuvok; Babylon 5 had the Doctor to name a few.IMHO he was talking about diversity among major cast members like the aforementioned. Any flaming on this one is certainly misplaced.
-
BSG will live on as a WB sitcom!!!!!
thrace and Parker will be roommates and Gaius will be the investment banker who lives down the hall -
The Master will kill him............with a spoon.
-
Adama will eat Galactica!
"frack!! where's the tartar sauce?" -
For what it's worth, I had some posts in last week;s TB that might be of some assistance.BTW I read Scientific American too. Back in the day, it was reported that Ron Moore read it while working on Trek.
-
the underlying assumption is that you only get diversity with African-American actors. Hispanics outnumber African-Americans in the United States, but the latter are well-represented on television while the former are criminally neglected.
Wait, that was a serious point. Now for some levity: Tyler Perry was auditioning for a new film that same weekend, so there weren't enough inexpensive african-american actors available to audition for BSG. -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-giltz/embattlestar-galacticaem_b_176983.html
It says Sci-Fi said the episode is 2 hours & 11 meinutes -
he wasnt talking about just showing black characters but he wanted interracial sex preferably a black guy banging a white blonde or two black guys spitroasting this crazy spoiled blonde chick (starbuck maybe?). anyway in respnse, Merrick thats really disgusting BSG is not that kind of show, BSG is only about the 2 girls 1 cup stuff, not that interracial stuff. silly Merrick.
-
The Cylon God is MAXIMILIAN!
-
Which is why I hope they release a series DVD set.
I've heard such great things from you all...I look forward to purchasing such a set if it is ever released. -
Yep, and that was the real reason they airlocked him. Frakkin' homophobes.
-
BSG is a joke.
-
Do you really need attention THAT badly?
-
BSG is no good. stargate is ur answer. stay safe my friend.
-
Comparing BSG with menstruation (implying, of course, that menstruation is somehow negative or bad) is really amazing. It's amazing to see someone so openly attack women in that way. You'll make a really great father. I can tell.
-
He's over on tvguidemagazine.com, but he says he loved the finale. The only problem may be "finale fatigue" because the last 30 mintues go on for a bit.
-
Why the extra H? WHY!
-
Do you know how to keep a retarded eggplant in suspense?
I'll tell you next week. -
Oh yeah
-
who sent you here? WHO SENT YOU!!! you clearly have been castrated by the Menstruating Gods, but just for the record i also compared BSG's ending to ejaculation as it is relaxing to see it go away. and also BSG is sexist. stargate is the exact opposite though as it didnt objectify women in any way.
-
Oh man, I can not wait. Bacon cheeseburgers and some fine Kentucky bath tub hootch (Uncle Biscuit's recipe). I am all geared up for the greatest moment in entertainment history and man oh man, I better not pass out. Take care and see you after the episode. SO SAY WE ALL!!!!!
-
Trolls want attention. Responding to trolls give them attention.
Don't Feed the Trolls. -
For the most part the reviews are pointing to a very exciting finale. I'm becoming more optimistic that we'll get a lot of plot with a minimum of aimless character stuff.
-
and worth the journey. Nothing stupid like the bitch way Anya died.
-
I'm part of the VFX team.
Trust me on this, because I am not shitting you:
You guys are going to see some things you've always wanted to see. Things we've always wanted to do. It's mammoth in scale. -
We're getting a Boomer-Athena-Seelix threeway?!? WOO-HOO!!!!!!!
-
nice superficial stuff there and there but really nothing to ponder save for the final beat of the drums.
-
I think today thre is alot of love for BSG, due to the amazing first 2.5 seasons, when this show was brilliant, it was 100% on top of it's game- best sci fi show up there with the peak of Babylon 5. However as I have stated before, the show got so lost in the second half of season 3 that it went from a must see TV where I would race home to watch it, to something that became totally uninteresting and irrelevant to watch, and frankly that's sad. The show will go down with the matrix Trilogy and Neon Genesis Evangelion as concepts taht were incredible and kick your ass to this day for the first part of it, and then all ended with confused convoluted writing, and egos of the creators smashing the product that people loved in the first place. In all three cases I have been surprised that all three were so good, and yet got so bad/ confusing. And seeing all of the fans get upset on the talkback the last few weeks has been fun as well just from keeping up with the horrible plot turns and not having to waste the time watching the show - the whole final five nonsense/all along the watch tower had me punching out a long time ago.
However in the spirit of the amazing first 2.5 seasons of the show- farewell Nu BSG, you were really good, but you could have been so much more- a bittersweet ending to one of my former favorite shows! And I stand by my prediction that this finale will confuse and disappoint, and that SYFY will try like mad to rope everyone into watching more spin off garbage- damn their evil souls to hell. -
the final cylon is ///spoilers/// the statue of liberty.
-
like this talkback
-
Yes, even better than Firefly, says Browncoat Jedi.
-
while the Galactica explodes.
-
Really, I mean, some trolls are funny, even when they attack stuff I like (like BSG) -- but this guy isn't even remotely funny or clever. He's fucking annoying and I almost ALMOST wish he would just die.
-
you die first
-
they even invited Howard Stern and his crew to the screening, but they snub AICN?
-
perhaps they couldnt afford to go traveling in space when the attacks happen, and is a reflection of our society, stupid! haha
-
I'm stopping off at the liquor store on the way home and grab a good bottle of scotch. I'll drink to the 'ol girl and share a toast with Togh and Adama.
BSG lives forever.
So Say We All !!!! -
My typos are getting worse. I should see someone about that.
-
Im also going to celebrate with a bottle of scotch!!! because im gonna finallt see the Stargate Universe trailer now during BSG!!!
-
which ammount to around 120 minutes? makes sense, last I saw was ep 19.
-
which ammount to around 120 minutes? makes sense, last I saw was ep 19 (and frack me if the previous post went through)
-
Slow pan down street toward figure in red ... wait, it's not Six ... figure turns toward screen ... it's -- "Mesa bein bombad Imperious Leader, okeyday?"
-
Don't sweat it brother. He's like 9 years old and looking for attention just let him be..
-
i could be obama for all you know. word to the wise, its the big people in the world that act this way on the internet. but im here to convince people how disgusting BSG is. at first it looked like it would be a good show but now look at it. terrible waste.
-
I'm actually a fan of Stargate as well.. I didn't realize the trailer would be shown tonight.I find it difficult to compare the two series because they're just so different. Battlestar is much more of a drama than a SciFi. Stargate, to me, is a more light-hearted touch on SciFi with some heavier elements mixed in. I don't think either one is better than the other, just that they're both great in what they do.I'm hoping Universe is good but I'm hesitant to support "ScyFy" anymore than I already have.
-
You surely NEED a male black hole to stick into.. dontcha? Maybe you get your comeuppance t'night. Stick deep, bitch! And pllllease don't insult stargate by referencing to it all the time... unworthy!
-
I haven't had cable in about 5 years, so the internet has been the way that I've caught BSG, 24, and Lost. I actually watch the show while reading the TB from the night before, because I really enjoy the banter. Now, I realize that Lost and 24 are on over the air TV, but I hate messing with the rabbit ears to get the signal right, hate the commercials, and my computer isn't close enough to the TV. At least the way I watch it now, the show covers 3/4ths of the screen, and I have a couple of lines of TB underneath.
Thanks again for enjoyable TBs! -
http://tinyurl.com/c5rsrn
-
no, thank you!
-
I know what u mean, but these guys bashed stargate unfairly and now its payback time.
-
Mar 20, 2009 6:19:59 PM CDT
stargate is for forty year olds who think sat a.m. cartoons
by kenny_fuckin_powers
are deep.
-
just terrible shows
-
stupid article about BSG ending lol: http://tinyurl.com/c5rsrn
---i cant believe the media likes such obvious crap even BBC! -
Jesus! It's been like 5 hours since my last post and dioxholder is still trolling like a fiend! Dude, you are so a 9 year old! It's not even funny!
-
***Kenny_Fuckin_Powers says: "stargate is for forty year olds who think sat a.m. cartoons are deep."
my response: "Fuck You"
***lockesbrokenleg says: "Stargate and Dr. Who set sci fi back 50 years. just terrible shows"
my response: "Fuck You" -
We go back three seasons, and Adama wakes up from his coma. He looks around and just kills all the Cylons he can.
-
ur world is a joke. is that funny for ya?
-
Which drug is it you haven't taken? Stargate's good, Dr. Who IS almost 50 years old. What's your point? BSG has it's faults -imho - but I'm eagerly waiting for the finale, I'm simply more into LOST - the most intelligent scifi-show out there... BUT... don't insult other great shows! Just DON'T!
-
Fuck Off And Die dioxholster!
SO SAY WE ALL!!
I'm a little depressed, I won't be able to see it until the second airing tonight. At the same time I'm happy because tonight my son starts his hockey playoffs. Quite the conundrum... -
u guys here celebrating BSG ending. but im here celebrating Stargate Universe's trailer premiere. our destiny's meet. thats why im here fuckheads.
-
you're 9.
-
The paaaain. The paaaaainnnn.
-
"They bashed stargate and now it's payback time". Wow indeed.
-
would i write this: "Interestingly, the pre-modeling mechanism associated with beings and its influences according to the being’s mass in space shares similarities with the concept of Plato’s recollection, where one bears prior knowledge of everything that is only revealed once discovered through cognitive thought. The difference here is that recollection suggests the innate information is stored within before creation unlike Heidegger’s projection of being that explicitly depends on empirical and more clairvoyant influences."
-
Love the Bear but that opening overture from the original may be in the top five all time with Star Trek The Motion Picture, Star wars Raiders and Lawrence of Arabia
-
Love the Bear but that opening overture from the original may be in the top five all time with Star Trek The Motion Picture, Star wars Raiders and Lawrence of Arabia
-
I LOVE BSG's acting AND atmosphere (and the GREAT mcreary-soundtrack). The BSG-Family is great stuff! I simply think it's less scifi than soapy... Too much resemblance to our "today". That's where I cannot help but ask, WHY they have octagon-shape paper - whilst havin' pistols and jeeps and all natural american stuff... That's why it hasn't been my greatest SCIFI-Show. BUT to all the technobabble-haters out there: ONE Black Hole - and it's ALL SciFi BACK again... luv that!
-
and it's pronounced DICKSHOLDER...
-
But you could paste it. Get some rest. You've done all you can for the Stargate cause. Your work here is done. So say we all!
-
THAT's where you broke? Poor brutha... ;-)
-
thats low, really low. as low as BSG.
-
fuck you that was from an essay i wrote two years ago!
-
...in the collective unconscious?
-
Look. The long hours are getting to you. Look how irritable and defensive you are. Give it a rest already. I feel terrible. I should be talking about theories and stuff instead of giving you advise.
-
BSG: Black Hole??? ALL chronicon particles within tachyon parameters... WAIT!!!!
-
Gonna be sad to see her go. Thank you Ron Moore, for 4 seasons of one of the best science fiction series which has been done on film.
-
these things dont write themselves: "This is a progressive step in thought and ideas as nature itself is considered artful not only because of its posture and prevalence but also for its purpose and our dependence on it. All that also describes technology and such assimilation between two frameworks could be unprecedented. A factor worth mentioning that differentiates nature from technology is that nature is wielded by an unknown authoritarian force while technology is a figment or rather a strong extension of our imagination. There is no mystery there, knowing how data compresses or how clocks maintain an accurate time, even though it’s worth knowing it still pales in comparison with nature’s intricate or precise forces and its likely randomness. However, it is strange that humans always label nature as flawless when nothing in reality justifies that claim."
-
suck it up BSG fags.
-
Mar 20, 2009 7:15:24 PM CDT
"really bad time for someone to explode an electromagnetic pulse
by shan
Just out of interest, when would be a good time?
-
Duh ;)
-
We hardly knew ye.
-
bye bye, old fart.
-
*glares at dioxholster*
If the Ender Smites Foes were still here, he'd verbally nuke this guy. :) -
Somebody had to say it
-
I am telling you. Excelsior!
BTW, I have a naked singularity in my pants. Let's see if you can find it.
-
You've done a man's job, Adama. It's too bad Galactica won't live. But then again...who does??
-
lol, yeah man. I watched Stargate and my head exploded
-
Stargate SG-1 is indeed incredible. I've just started to watch it a year ago. I can't believe the times I've wasted when I younger watching the Star Trek series. SG-1 is the best implemented mix of well developped mythology, characters, action.
-
Enough with Stargate, Dr. Who and the other inferior garbage..they don't hold a candle to BSG..I may have the unfortunate lot in life to be dicksuckers er I mean dickholders whore of a mother, but I do have taste..LONG LIVE BSG!
-
because some goats crossed his bridge and he went home empty-handed. Well, not entirely empty-handed. He tugs on those two inches of swinging fury quite often.
By the way, Stargate is teh ghey. -
I found this very impressive timeline someone linked to from io9.com at:
http://airplanelandingfield.org/bsg/BSG%20SpaceTimeline.jpg -
I second the BanHammer request if his Mother can't control his faggotry he needs banning plain as.
-
Consider me properly chastised.
-
been a part of these BSG talkbacks. My dad and I are going to watch the finale, so that's why I'll only pop in here occasionally. It's been a great run, and even though I feel sad the journey is over, the destination part of it has been mostly exciting. I will sorely miss this show.
-
Believe me, I've tried to control his faggotry ways but to no avail..after tonight I'll be banning him from his boyfriends nutsack for talking shit about an excellent show that is Battlestar Galactica..
-
Finishing up Bones from last night. But I should catch up pretty quick.
-
Sad.
-
check this out: http://tinyurl.com/c5rsrn
-
I sure hope Cooper gets out of the Black Lodge this time.
-
...seeing the uninspiring and middling SG series mentioned in a TB for the Galactica finale I have to say. I concede it can be entertaining enough at times and has a good camraderie amongst the characters but it is formulaic and doesn't exactly push the boundaries does it now. Anyway...its frakkin starting!
-
that is awesome! i love that show!
-
Baltar's dad. "He was happy the last time I saw him", says Six.
-
Obama clearly hates the disabled... and Stargate. Yep, hates 'em both. In fact, I think Obama only likes one show - Uncle Festus' Wig Willy Chick'n Barn.
-
Adama hang out with drunks?
-
Nothing like a strip club to start off a series finale.
-
This chick is hot - she stands in fountains!!
-
where's my cyanide pill!
-
Hey, the SG franchise still is cost-effective fun in an otherwise dying genre.
Low budget, reasonably written sci-fi with a sense of humor is still better than no sci-fi at all. -
I don't have Sci-Fi cause Comcast doesn't include it in the basic digital. BUT, for some unknown reason, they show BSG on OnDemand at midnight. BUT that means I have to wait for midnight! DAMMIT!
-
A full of drunk fest at 5+
-
Adam meldowns to Adama barfing
-
seriously
-
me and all my friends watched it religiously. we cant get enough of it and we reference it all the time. BSG is so ego-centric to the level of being unwatchable. i mean they did the UN thing for fuck's sake! thats trash. but stargate is king of sci fi!
-
I will vomit all over myself at an alley while looking like a 3 year old grinning at the stars!! (TIME FOR SHOTS!!)
-
More damn flashbacks
-
they batter get moving, with the revelations already.
-
I would have bid for that on Ebay. (I KID! I KID!)
-
yeah... sure. why not miss first 7 minutes. I'll take you had some clock moving thingy in the last week or so...?
bah, would someone please be kind enough for a recap? please? pretty please? -
always liked that guy
-
heres the picture i made(believe me you will love this):
http://tinyurl.com/d4qsm9
its president Bush last year congratulating SGC for defeating Ori. and giving them medals and stuff. -
Time is money
-
that Adama put in charge?
-
Yeah! What he said!
-
He's the President?
-
Second best Hoshi in Science Fiction history
-
I must write that one down
-
to whom tigh said in last episode "you're never gonna make admiral this way"
great judge of character, that man... :) -
this is shaping up to be great!
-
"The crazy lawyer?"Exactly, he's like the perfect president! At least by current American standards :P
-
It's like BSG is putting their 3rd Team scrubs in when they're down (or up) by 30.
-
they're still wasting time...
-
Are apparently going to be back-to-back trailers.Not that I mind the one for Stargate and the new Star Trek movie... just sayin, it's like a big advertising night on SciFi.
-
It's about time he grew a real backbone
-
"its not too late to flush them all out the airlock"
-
Was complete, 100%, pure win.
-
Perhaps dioxholster would feel better were his medication better regulated...
And, dioxholster, let me save you the trouble of responding to me by doing it for you:
---
my response "Fuck you."
---
Don't we all feel better now? -
(oh, I'm caught up)
-
is only one magnitude less being in deep shit than handing a gun to Ben
-
OMG thats going to be cool.
-
But things seem to be picking up.
-
DVR went wonky and we started with the doc and Roslin. Can I get a recap og the opening flashbacks and any present stuff we missed? Thanks!
-
oops, wrong show.
-
watching the girl take that pounding
-
Frak Yeh
-
AT BLOODY LAST!
-
Colonial Troops and Cylon Centurions invading cylon colony....Frakking awesome is the only way to describe this.
-
HONEY I'M HOME!
-
Kara Thrace is in top form during this invasion
-
And it's friggin' awesome!!
-
ADAMA IS not PLAYING!!
-
ADAMA IS not PLAYING!!
-
oh yeah, the dvd will be mine
-
...and still awesome!!!
-
with a mild erection right now...frak me......
-
I couldn't even sit still, hahaha
-
It's Macross/Robotech Daedalus maneuver. Way to go Misa/Lisa!
-
my head was splattered by a giant rock"
-
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
The centurion choke out an older model cylon than blow his head off??? Holy Frak!!
-
feelin the chub are ya?
-
Wow ... oooh, first look at Caprica
-
But the CGI one was OK too.
-
get to watch it again tonight
-
looks like a shitty soap opera with robots
-
unneeded - yes, this is what we want "shiny things and exploding ships" Fuck "characters" shows
-
The scale of this battle is enormous. At least there shall be no bitching about a lack of action.
-
fuck you Boomer
-
Simon's line to Boomer is Tarkin's line on the Death Star.
-
*in awe*
-
it's "Boomer" that just broke math boy's neck, and athena (Hera's mother) who's with Helo and Starbuck, right?
-
Yeah I admit the preview looked like an episode of The O.C. but I'll withhold judgment.I've seen some reviews that say its actually very good.
-
Caprica will be crap!!! This is BSG!!!!! now and forever!!!
-
Yes, Boomer was the only Eight to stay with Cavil's bunch.
-
Umm.
-
Cavil in FINE form tonight
-
Stories can be terrific, especially mixesd with just the right amount of SPLOSSSIONNNNNS!!!
:) -
Gaius get some!
-
cavil ftw! :D:D:D
-
ANSWERS PLEASE!!!!
-
STARGATE STARGATE STARGATE STARGATE STARGATE STARGATE
-
Too late.
-
"The doctors in!"
-
I was still kinda hoping for her. Guess she found some redemption in the end. Wonder how Tyrol is going to react.
-
As someone who can't be saved. OK that won't actually happen but it would be balls if it did.
-
Mmmmm ... coffee ...
-
Not pigeons needed!
-
into the crapfest that was much of this season. Beause it's the combination of plot, character, and action that make BSG great. Not timeholder "character" episodes, that bridge the ones where they can afford to bring it all together.
-
You are the spoofiest spoof that has ever spoofed.
-
This is very exciting.
-
...& now all of AICN is pregnant.
Let's see the series-finale of "Lost" top this. -
"Fail!" (I dont know what that means either)
-
STARGATE RULES
-
I still say she'd been victimized from the beginning.
Calvil fucked with her programing.
She's had crisis'es from the first season -
We missed the first ten minutes due to a DVR frak up. First thing we saw was the Doc telling Roslin this was it for her. Thanks so much!
-
pppbbblllttt
-
Right, because we all agree in talkback. PHHT
-
So say we all!
-
Adama wanted to go out in a blaze of glory fighting, looks like he's finally getting his wish.
-
did anyone else shout out after they realized they both were seeing them and got interrupted by an explosion. So close to figuring out something dammit....still, 75 min left (including adverts I guess...dayum they're long tonight)...
-
RIGHT ON! Gods, the last 4 eps and the first 25 mins here were UNEEDED!!
-
oh man that looked AWESOME and non-stargatish at all
-
say it again Mike Golic still looks like a fatty.
-
So say we all!
-
was cool! best thing EVAR!!!!! BSG sucks balls!!!!!!!!!
-
becomes reality
-
Hmmmm
-
they're going to all die!
-
Music is awesome
-
...love it when composers have a sense of humor.
-
What is the exit strategy here?
-
@$%#$^$%&%*^%$^@@@#%#$^$@!!!!!!^$&$#&%$^%^#^##$ YAY!!!!!!!!!@%@^@@^@#6
-
#^#^&%$&@@@%$@^&**&^^^^I^&*$#@#%$@%@#&^$%&&*%^&$%^#$^#$^#%@#$!@@@$!^%%$&*^&(
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA@@@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
well played.
-
The Five!
-
reveals its ugly head. Eh, wouldn't be BSG, or any drama with action, without it.
-
Incredible payoff!!!!!!!!
-
Words to live by
-
Mar 20, 2009 9:04:45 PM CDT
%^%$^$@#$@$@%^STARGATE UNIVERSE is COOL!!^@!$!$#%$#$%#%#%!#^$$$$
by dioxholster
@!$@##$%^%$#&^%&*$%&$#^%@%$#%#@$^#@^$%^$ STARGATE IS AWESOME $%#$%##^#@%@#%@#$%#@$%@#
-
Another Lost reference.
-
This has all happened before...
-
it's approaching epic proportions.
-
threadjack?
-
God speaking to critical players on each side?
-
It's been too damn long
-
That she is a hybrid is just incidental symbolism. SHE'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE SHE'S THE LYNCHPIN FOR A CEASEFIRE/PEACE.
That's pretty fucking brilliant (even if the way it was explained is a bit ham-handed).
-
Will YOU PLEASE stand the FRACK down!
-
FTW = For The Win
-
no bewbs
-
WHat can they possibly do to fill it??
-
Head 'splodes!
-
with the opera house dream. Ron Moore is the king of BSG writing.
-
and I just have a feeling it is going to be the deal breaker on the entire series. I just don't think it's Caville that will do it
-
Diox is asking you to ban him/her. I suggest you oblige.
-
didn't they see the happening?!??
-
damit
-
Tory's experiencing Callum Regret!
-
He's truly a Bones McCoy scale cool character.
-
$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$^STARGATE UNIVERSE^$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$
-
Or not
-
the cowards way out
-
...at MSNBC, where he explains their use of the "naked singularity":
http://tinyurl.com/bsgguru -
OR THAT
-
Holy shit
-
$*$*$*$*$*$*$*$*$STARGATE UNIVERSE$*$*$*$*$*$*$*$
-
And was Racetrack dead? Damn :(
-
You better hope so Kara Thrace
-
Moore saves it from itself with shit hitting the fan! Way to go Chief!
I'm sure the hokum will return before we're done, though. -
Tyrol, we know your feelings were hurt but DAMN suck up for i don't know the whole fracking human race!!!
-
Tyrol, we know your feelings were hurt but DAMN suck up for i don't know the whole fracking human race!!!
-
$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$^STARGATE UNIVERSE^$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
-
Just had to say that
-
Isn't this what we knew would happen all along?
-
it ROCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Tip o' the hat to B5.
-
last week
-
nice touch
-
PAYOFF action in the mighty marvel manner!
-
Sweet.
-
LIAR LIAR
-
Or one with a continent that looks suspiciously like Africa!
-
Again??? Or for the first time?
-
Welcome to Earth
(not Earf mutha fuckas) -
Earth??
-
The time has come Dioxholster/DeckardBladeRunner, oh yes. Enjoy the show guys, I'll be with you soon.
-
Huh, didn't know he was in Wolverine.
-
I dont have enough jizz now for Jessica Alba tonight. Shes gonna be pissed.
-
other than that.....HOLY SHIT...50 minutes left...not enough
-
And jump in time as well as space?
-
Could they have travelled in time in addition to space?
-
No, he wasn't a liar. Reread EXACTLY what RM said. This is old news.
-
Did he get evacuated?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
-
So Moore didn't lie?
-
So now the handoff to Battlestar galactica 1980
-
...imagery from the original series... maybe.
-
Apollo 1 do you copy?
-
"Frakk it!" then eats a bullet fucking brilliant out for that character
-
I am sure you all caught that!
-
Otherwise, uh, WTF?
-
See if you get "the answer"
-
They WENT there guys. :)
-
They WENT there guys. :)
-
where's the naked 8 party?
-
Sorry Apollo
-
Am I watching BSG or frackin Animal Planet????????
-
using this ending... that took some guts.
-
Holy Crap!!??
-
Does Les Stroud come out and start a fire for Adama?
-
What a load of horseshit. LAME.
-
no way he died, no way
-
whoops.
-
....On Board Galactica!
-
.....from loincloths to Times Square.
-
FCC fines for naked 8 day
-
The last scene was very moving. Great writing and acting.
-
What do they do for the final half hour and 11 mins? :)
-
The show should come back next year as a musical
"Never knew...i could feel like this........It's like Im a hybrid...." -
What's with the "returning to nature" crap? Horseshit!
-
to all you halfwits who poo-pooed my insistence that the other planet was NOT our earth! Frak off bitches!
-
Drunk pigeon fighting!!!!!!
-
won't live,but then....who does?
-
Maybe Starbuck can cry? Roslin can give her dying speech? Please don't blow the momentum here guys.
-
nice...
-
Ask Simon how important that is
-
nifty!
-
Happy now
-
Yes!!!!!!!!
-
mutations on Earth
-
Back to the stone ages, with some self-important blather. What a way to end it.
-
STARGATE UNIVERSE is AwEsOmE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! better than BSG shit!!!
-
...don't make me regret that Ronnie Moore ;)
-
is make a still, even before Tigh
-
a 6 or 8 as a stripper in the flashbacks......
-
from the original to come into play. If life here "began out there", where did the spaceships go? Into the sun. This bunch of people is just dumb enough for that to make sense.
-
Moore should re-imagine Gilligan's Island now
-
Mar 20, 2009 9:39:31 PM CDT
All those who predicted that they would go with "we're all cylon
by gawdfather
Yes, they went there. And props for predicting it years ago, as some of you did. Lamelamelame.
-
More drunk pole dancing!
-
WE WILL WATCH! throw away BSG coz it sucks like that dog that sniffs for drugs and finds BSG shit around.
-
Galen becomes Santa Clause?
-
Ellen needs her lubrification
-
...have cylon DNA mixed with human, etc.
-
actually Golgafrinchans, the answer has always been 42!
-
... there are those here who believe life began out there.
-
Not bad. I'll have to watch the replay to get a better handle on it.
The thing is, I used to experience this show with my heart in my throat. That really hasn't happened for me since Exodus.
That said, I hope they can make something out of Caprica that defies expectations. -
@#%@#%#@#$^@#^#$FUCK BSG@^%@$%@#%#@WATCH@%#w$^%#$@^#6234#$^#@STARGATE%@#%@#@##^#@^#UNIVERSE$#%@#%@^^$#@IT ROCKS$#%^$#@^@#$^HARD#$^#^@^@#$^#@$
-
Or is that Moses I'm thinking of?
-
What is Apollo? Where did she get the ship! Who left the note in adamas room about the cylon models in the mini?
-
Pretty much.
-
With .Ron Moore believing the characters deserve some happiness fore there struggle. Something not perfect, but a new begining.
-
With .Ron Moore believing the characters deserve some happiness fore there struggle. Something not perfect, but a new begining.
-
Is hot in the Flashbacks...MILF! -
worse than sopranos. too bad. BSG that is.
-
...over the past couple of years took up a hell of a lot more episode time than the actual scene.
-
noooooo hellpppp squish stab gore rip tear!!!!!
-
A man. Toy R Us. The Maid.
-
what I think he's doing. Is he?
-
Shit, what a waste.....
Talk about a Seinfeld ending -
watch it or be square!
-
Last time I'll be saying that.
How sad -
STARBUCK THE WHITE!
-
Everyone had in head Kara
-
SB gone....FTW!
-
She's an In-Head!?!?
-
This is making the end of the Return of the King film looks short by comparison!
-
I hope no one flew in that thing because I can't imagine in-head vipers are air-tight.
-
real pigeons crap before they take off to lighten the load
-
To everyone? So she never returned after she died[?]
-
pimp doggy laura
-
Kara disappears, the pigeon flies away....howlingly awful.
-
Those things will kill ya
-
EVERYONES head? An Angel that can touch, shoot, and jump the ship?!
-
To the past from th future
-
You can pull a fucking Ghost bullshit ala Cordelia for an episode, but for an entire stretch run of episodes? FUCK YOU.
-
you need to put a cigarette out on your pecker, like right now
-
that need explanation in the next say ten minutes.
-
Hmmmmm
-
So I've been thinking for a while that the whole "you'll lead them to their end" might be the goal they desired and not necessarily mass death.How though is she the Harbinger of Death?
-
Amanda Tapping is totally hot, eh?
-
If she was in-head or was just resurrected to help the complete the journey, and like the original Starbuck, gone to that great big ship of lights. If anyone read the original ending for Dirk's Starbuck. Possible nod there.
-
She could've just ascended. It's happened before, er, later
-
satisfying yet by far. Don't expect any more revelations or answers from this dung-heap of an ending.
-
I wasted 6 years of my life
-
Maybe destruction in that that humanity in it's current form will cease to exist due to breeding with Cylons and the natives?Speaking of the Cylons, exactly where are they? I don't think I've seen any of them since they landed.
-
this poor bastard in the backtaxes commercial looks like someone glued a dead gerbil to his forehead....anyone else seeing this commercial, or is it localized?
-
BAM!
-
... it is ending the only way it possibly can.And for morons saying this is worse than David Chase's or Larry David's epic fuck you to their fans... well... FUCK YOU!!!You dumb as shit fucking talkbackers, you'll never get it, and you'll never be worthy of the greatness and peace the ending of this show can bring you if you weren't so fucking cynical.Fucking get over yourselves, and enjoy something for once, you fucking morons!!!
-
awesome
-
HELO!
-
BSG gone hippie.
-
Nail on head.
-
for a hit it and quit it kinda gal.
-
They set all this up just to piss you off. Comfort yourself with the knowledge that 95% of these people would die in 2 days in a neolithic wilderness with just a suitcase and the clothes on their back.
-
That was awful.
-
that might keep me alive for a while longer.
-
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
WHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
What a pile of shit. This show will have zero rewatchability. -
...needs lifts....nice nod to what happened to the original Baltar too lol...still can't see it ending well for them two after all they were responsable for...
-
Totally and completely unsatisfying on every possible level.
-
Ended up being completely meaningless...do I have that right?
-
Gauis is responsible for wiping out 99 percent of humanity and he gets to live on?
-
Moment when Baltar realize how much he actually did learn from his father.
-
Moment when Baltar realize how much he actually did learn from his father.
-
that was beautiful. Lost won't even come close to this.
-
or something seriously creepy
-
Can we not just got onto #BSG and chat there?
-
ron moore!
-
I'll miss you BSG.
-
Was that him?
-
that is rather exquisite an ending...
-
Good God...
I'm my own Grandpa -
better than this shit! haha! SGA totally had a cooler ending than zoo watch!
-
Is just what I was ABOUT to say before that epilogue! Seriously, if it ended with Adama on the hill- thumbs down. But that epilogue FUCKING ROCKED.
-
hendrix is the savior of the mankind/cylon hybrid megarace.
-
yes that was he at the news stand....
-
that is all.
-
a product placement for MSNBC.
-
still tops my list.
They had a almost no notice to pull that last half season together.
This is sitting snugly at #2 though.
If I live to dee Losts finale, we'll see... -
Jimi's "All Along the Watchtower" kicks ass! Awesome end with the robots!
-
I owe you one.
-
reading the magazine.
-
live to *see...
-
"You know it doesn't like that name"
Jimi Hendrick, and we are out of here ... -
"You know it doesn't like that name"
Jimi, and we are out of here ... -
...thanks for the miniseries and the first two seasons. And the second hour (tonight's first hour) of the three hour finale.
Otherwise, thanks for nothing.
That last hour was an abomination. Screw The Plan and Caprica, I sure as hell won't be watching. -
Was that the inference? Or were they both angels? What was the line Baltar said about God- "You know he doesn't like to be called that."?
-
stargate can bite my shiny metal ass...seriously....i'm part Cylon you know...
-
Et tu, AICN?
-
...before the nuke us to hell. See you at Radio Shack!
-
Will man every learn?
-
That's my grade. The Kara resolution sucked ASS. Ultimately, Hera is pointless and the Caprica/Baltar stuff felt shoehorned in. BUT...Tyrol fucking up the truce was glorious, the no-debate execution right after getting Hera back was the kind of thing that has separated this show from lesser ones, and ultimately finding 'Earth' was where we all knew it was going to end up anyway.
-
What are those two exactly?
-
So say we all!
-
did i miss that?
-
we have to change the name if this planet to earth2?
-
As I said - IN HEAD = Angels? What was Kara? She will lead humanity to its end and is the harbinger of destruction? Who left the note in adama's quarters? Karas dad trained her on the "swirly" and the notes for a perfect jump to a new earth?
-
Frakin' hippies.
-
and by "this", I mean "starting with the miniseries"
-
Thank you. That was great.
-
As I said - IN HEAD = Angels? What was Kara? She will lead humanity to its end and is the harbinger of destruction? Who left the note in adama's quarters? Karas dad trained her on the "swirly" and the notes for a perfect jump to a new earth?
-
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
-
To a great show. It can hold its head high!
-
There's nothing more I could have asked from this finale. It's something that I could watch over and over again. And chrth, dude, you are 100% right about the In Heads! MORE! MORE! MORE!
-
Seriously I felt that the last couple of episodes felt kind of anti climaxtic, this puts it all in perspective. This 2 hours cements BSG as the best TV I've ever frakking scene. Period. Oh and we'd better watch out for those japanese robots. Think that's why boomer was Asian?
-
Just wipe, flush, forget and move on......
-
Don't tell me I can't be in the last scene with the english dude and the hot chick
-
not as much as this finale for sure. I stopped caring about those characters. I'm still interested in the show, but I was more invested in BSG. Plus I think the Lost guys are a bunch of fucking wussy bitches. Tom Hanks had to stay alone on an island for 3 years. These wimps are on there for 3-4 months with supplies and hot bitches.
-
If it's a Terminator prequel, then BSG is linked to Terminator like Terminator is linked to The Matrix.
-
If it's a Terminator prequel, then BSG is linked to Terminator like Terminator is linked to The Matrix.
-
Or are my eyes all wrong.
-
AHAHAHAHA
-
At least the season limped to an awsome final.Could not have asked for more.
-
Katee Sackhoff has girl germs.
grr-rowl -
the serious nod to 'alien' music throughout
-
Holy Crap BSG went out with a turd. Worst 2 hours of television in recent memory to cap off the worst season of a great show.
If I ever watch this show again, I will stop at the end of the third season. -
After 33 the Iraqtica episodes are the best of the show, and those are season 3 episodes.
-
... was pretty unexpected. But definitely not supposed to be gay, right?
-
means there's a chance that tigh is my ancestor.
would explain my alcoholism as genetically-determined... -
Even the last season of Lost is going to be tainted for me, especially now that it's obvious it's just one big predestination paradox.
Time to give up TV I think. -
So did anyone notice bits of the "Alien" score? Two people I know of thought it pretty obvious.
-
I mean, with the Cylons still out there.
Caprica sounds interesting but it's just this side of a straight TV drama... Why bother putting it on the Sci-Fi... excuse me.. the SyFy channel (how gay) -
You mean God? That's what I missed- Did 6 refer to it as God, and that was Baltar's response? Or did she say something else?
-
Greatest show ever. Haters can eat a dick. SO SAY WE ALL!!!!
-
it's not going to need to explain everything. Part of this show has always been about ambiguity. And yes, it's science fiction that deals with the fact that a lot of existence is fuckin answerable. So fuck you say we all, fuckin haters.
-
Epic. Sensational. And the Emmys will stay away from honoring this show as far as they can because they're turds of the lowest order. Nice homage to the original series music when Anders sent every ship into the sun. I am in awe. Mother-frakkin' awe at that.
-
A Great Ending!!!
-
...and put the show on the glide path to the craptastic season 4 we had to endure. They literally lost the plot with that shit.
-
I thought that was a great moment. I dunno what the last Tigh/Ellen flashback added though. Or the last Roslyn flashback. But hey, I'm not a diehard fan of the show. Like I said, the epilogue made up for it.
-
Hera dies as a child with her parents? That's fucking swell. And give me a break, there is no way these people would not have used their tech to build a city. Awful, a complete wast of my time.
-
Best series finale of any show I have personally followed and watched regularly. Every chord struck, every note perfectly played. Gods bless them, they didn't frak it up.
-
They never said she died as a child.
-
I know in my head that The Wire is a better tv show on some sort of quantitative level, but my fuckin balls and my fuckin crybaby ass tell me that Battlestar Galactica is my fuckin favorite show of all time.
-
It's been done about a million times before in all sorts of pseudo-deep sci-fi.
-
Yeah, I said it.
-
idiots can keep your show. You know that you'll forget all about in 5 years. Who would want to reinvest any more time in watching it again, knowing that the ending is the worst sort of mindless dribble imaginable. I want nothing more of it.
-
man feel sorry for the BSG fans. oh well at least ou guys have STARGATE UNIVERSE to look forward to.
-
Look for my post a few comments up! I totally agree on the "Alien" bits. Thanks for confirming.
-
..the 'angels' speech at the end, but I did like the 'that's not what it likes to be called' line. I just would have thought it would have been cooler to jump to the present, show the news reports or something, and then pan to the TV with a buildup to Jimmi...dunno..just me.
-
Wow... just, wow. Tonight marks the end of a GREAT series. And next year, when Lost S6 ends... we'll have reached the end of an era.
-
Perhaps one of the most fulfilled I have felt since I finished the Harry Potter series. What a stellar piece of work.
-
...Damn, those commercials made SGU look like a cheap BSG ripoff.
-
Amazing ending to an amazing show. Awesome battle followed by a bittersweet wind down. I loved every bit of it and I'm glad that it was an upbeat ending. Ron Moore has done us proud.
-
The remains in the newspapers sure looked like those of a child.
-
And I dont know when any equal will come into being.
-
Anyone notice at the very end of the slo mo walk where you see the back of 6's head? Look to her left and you can see some Indian dude checking out her rack as he passes by! Classic!
-
SO SAY WE ALL!!! Well.... until The Expendables comes out.
-
...we get you didn't like it. Having said your piece, how about exiting stage left? I won't call you an idiot for not liking the show, but I imagine the greater majority will, as I did, thoroughly enjoy this episode. Now we know why they showed Baltar's In-Head physically lifting him up - to set the stage for Kara being a PHYSICAL IN-HEAD that everyone could see! Nice.
-
Take note, that's how you end a series. You've got your template, now improve on it.
-
I think that's the best explanation we'll get for Starbuck and in heads. God exists, doesn't take sides, and is a mysterious force of a nature. The need to take a leap of faith that there is some higher power guiding things. The scientist finally realizes he can't explain everything. Probably will upset the atheist crowd. Still, Hera ends up being a McGuffin for the big battle. She already served her purpose, proving cylons and humans could interbreed.
-
Sorry, damn enter key. Do you think that they came up with the premise of the show's ending based on "All Along the Watchtower?" Just find it ironic that most of the lyrics to the song basically describe what happened to all of them over the past 4 seasons. Food for thought.
-
Probably the worst written finale ever.
-
if you don't have any children. She must've taken a homo erectus(?) husband
-
Hahaha, we did too - I'm sure the set direction was "everyone ignore our two actors" followed later by "we don't have time for a reshoot, tell the indian guy he's not getting paid!!"
-
Absolutely perfect in every way possible. Anyone complaining about this finale is an asshole.
-
I actually heard cues from Star Trek Generations when romo was counting everyone walking in the field with Tigh/Ellen bringing up the rear.
dunno. -
Well, yeah. Duh.
-
it will all happen again.
-
... think about it on a deeper level you fucking morons who can't appreciate the awesomeness that was GalacticaThink about it!It took the 13th Colony on the "original" Earth only 1000 years to destroy themselves.It took the Colonies 2000 years (plus the extra thousand they stayed on Kobol after the 13th left) to destroy themselves (obliquely speaking, by creating the Cylons and treating them as slaves, not equals, they sealed their fate).By giving up everything, by abandoning technology and weapons, and everything, the Colonials and Cylons, and their human forebearers have lasted 150,000 years!!!The cycle may not be permanently broken, but it lasted much, much longer.
-
you haven't mapped out your objectives.
Or you start letting your characters write the stories
Or in some instances (i think) you let the actors start dictating to you. (so say we all guy) (he must have really shot a wad at the un)
It was fantastic right up until Calvil blew his brains out
After that it was like having to cuddle with a chick that you fucked but don't really know or like that much. -
Can't take the criticism, so tell the dissenters to shut up. Ask yourself, would you be so defensive if deep down you didn't also realize this ending failed to meet expectations.
-
It was fucking awesome!
-
...turned out to be completely justified in our criticism of the useless flashbacks.
All the political bickering on the show over the years, and Lee Adama decides, "let's ditch the tech and live off the land." No dissent? No discussion or debate? So incredibly stupid, and unearned from previous series norms and behavior. -
i'm going to crawl in a hole for a while now. wow...
-
Satisfying ending for me. However, I would have had some ships from the fleet settling on different habitable
planets (essentially seeding nearby star systems). Maybe the birth of a new 12 colonies.
I would have liked to have seen the 'in-heads' talking to their boss.
-
Athena + Helo was compatible. Hera + Homo Erectus was compatible. If Hera is unable to breed with Homo Erectus (or whatever the stage was), then the Cylons and Colonists do not survive (genetically) into modern times.
-
In regards to the gunfight in the CIC after the truce: "Well that went well. "Or not."
-
The Opera House. Seeding the planet with human life and civilization... for the FOURTH time! Mind Fuck!! WOW!! Kara was an In-Head for everyone! Hera the Mother Gaia of all human history! WOW! Its gonna take me days to soak all that in! WOW!!
-
So they all went survivorman in the end? Nice. So say we all.............................
-
u wait and see. BSG will turn to dust when stargate makes its way over to ur stupid heads.
-
"I was told that a robot holocaust was coming."
-
I am not sure what that meant. From what I saw Baltar is immortal same with six. Where they god and the devil. Was Baltar gods son? Im a bit confused about that last ending scene. Any help?
-
I think you should really be addressing Damon Lindelof here. J.J. Abrams abandoned Lost a long time ago, and definitely shouldn't be getting the credit for anything great that show has done for the last, oh, 3 seasons.
That said, I agree - if Lost's finale is half this satisfying, I'll be pretty happy. -
so say we all... -
It's funny because I'm reading a book "The World Without Us" and they touch on a bunch of the ideas here.
-
Agreed! Good post, man.
-
Now I have to clean up all this jizz all over the floor
-
I got the impression they were angels or whatever analogy / label you want to apply
-
They were angles at the end?
-
I'm trying to tie it all together. so battlestar galactica: for many years, a group of mostly white people and robots fly around space drinking a lot of alcohol – sometimes, they vomit; they also like to box and they play bagpipes when somebody croaks. at one point, they decide to land in Africa with a creepy young girl-thing who goes on to make love with many apes; the end...? wait did I miss something?
-
that makes sence now, thanks!
-
to break the cycle.
-
Think about it!!!She wasn't an angel, like IH Balter and IH Six.But she was obviously half-human, half-divine.She had a loving father and knew of pain and experienced more pain and suffering than any normal human should.She died, and she was resurrected through the power of God.She came back, and was tangible, and could be seen and felt, hugged and kissed.When it was time for her to go, her journey complete, her flock safe, she ascended into heaven to be with God and her loved ones in the afterlife.Starbuck is Jesus!!!
-
It wasn't horrible, but I really wanted a finale that proved that they really didn't lose their way the last few seasons. I don't think that we necessarily got that.
-
the two beings that manifested as in-head baltar and six were some kind of servants of god, but weren't actually baltar and six. thats just how the real baltar and six had perceived them.
-
I feel like I just finished watching Touched by an Angel. 'Give up your technology, get back in touch with nature and trust God." That's what this show has been about this whole time? I guess I didn't understand it before, because I thought it wasn't pretentious horseshit until this episode...
-
Are you missing something? Hera was the mother of all humanity! The final news story was the anthropological discovery of who we call 'Eve', the original ancestor we all can be traced back to. IOW, we are all descended from a Cylon-Human hybrid.
-
Flashback Laura sure likes telling people to let themselves out of her house.
Also, Kara was the pigeon! *NOW* I get it!!!!!! -
Wow.....her life blows.....then she finally gets to Earth and gets to be with her parents with no problems and then BOOM she dies young and is discovered as a little girl skeleton in the future. lol. ouch.
-
thats what i get for getting a snack before i typed a response
-
She had children people!
-
But there were already humans on Earth - and what stopped the Galactica crew from procreating? That was a bullshit throw away at the end to try to make it seem like Hera mattered.
-
Mar 20, 2009 10:37:32 PM CDT
InHead 6 & Baltar are the "two riders" who "were approaching"
by d.vader
-
...too. Looking forward to your final BSG posts in this final TB.
-
If Hera dies as as a little girl, as evidenced by the little girl skeleton, how did she reproduce at all?
-
Please all you haters, hate all you want, wine and gripe and moan and berate and spew bile and call shenanigans and be miserable. Exercise your free speech rights all ya want, and say how the series should have done this or that or gone this way or that way. Ya know why? Cause I could care less.
All I care about it what I just witnessed, and I have just witnessed perfection. I could not have asked for a better finish.
It was so, SO true to everything galactica. Characters came first. Action, while amazing, served the characters, not vice versa. And whether or not you adrenaline junkies what to admit it or not, this show has always had a spiritual/metaphysical aspect to it, which is just as vitally important to the fabric of the show as the action/characters.
There's always been something slightly mysterious about the show, not everything resolved nice and tidy, wrapped all pretty with a bow on top. And the finale was absolutely true to that. What a beautiful finish. I am so happy that these people finally found some rest and happiness. Words don't do this finale or this show justice. What a genuine treasure this show has been.
By the way, ya know that rumor about the final scene that came out a while back. Well, somebody opened their frakking mouth! -
I *knew* it was VALIS
-
people are forgetting that the point of the last five years was to get the girl to have apesex. alcohol and strip bars were also involved.
-
It's possible that only a human/cylon hybrid had the right genetic composition to procreate with the hoo-man ancestors.
Of course, the article is complete bullshit because you can never "find" mitochrondial eve. -
maybe Hera's genes were needed to make the final evolutionary jump to modern humans.
-
They're saying that all this time, they have not been projections, but true angels not bound by space and time... I suppose we are to believe that Starbuck is one of them too.
It actually is an interesting pre-christian ancient greek view of angels/minor deities, which we've sort of been following in the Galactica mythos anyway.
The RDM cameo at the end was a cute touch too -
Didn't both dying leaders, the Galactica and Roslin, complete the journey? And how was Starbuck a harbinger of doom or death or whatever?
-
she could also effect the world around her. The physical world.
And when she wasn't needed anymore *poof* -
Even though it's been 150,000 years hera has yet to fulfill her mission and purpose....
-
are going to really have to struggle with this one!
-
the little skeleton was the offspring of Hera and the monkeyman
-
If you think about it. Not saying religion is right, but that there IS a Force in this Universe. I can dig that.
-
she was diferent that the 6 and Baltar in heads
-
Crap ending with all the religious nonsense needed to explain stuff. Ditching all of the technology with no dissent whatsoever? Bull! Glad I didn't invest a lot of time in this show.
-
It was good, but it fell into an old sci-fi cliche. "Humans have a chance to start over but will mess up the same way... unless the viewers realize that OMG it's our present day timeline!" If you don't know that it is a sci-fi staple you need to read a lot more. Points for delivery, none for originality.
-
Oh frak yeah. They made every single scene they were in ten million times better.
-
In the exciting new Sci-Fi series Caprica.
It may not suck, but I'm fairly certain it's going to be low-risk venture.
-
it's just that on a biological scale, Hera's decendants came to dominate the population. Perhaps she has a superior immune system, whate have you. All they're saying is that every surviving genertic line eventually mated with the line of Hera.
Also remember that Helo and athena (and all the other cylon+human groups ) could just keep trying to mate anyway... who knows maybe they procude more children. Obviously they impled that genetic variation of humans comes from where the colonies landed as well -
the very last second of BSG was the big shiny back of a bald guy's head.
-
It said young woman, did it not? What, you think she'd stay abstinent without birth control back then with teenage hormones raging?
-
about the cylon models in adamas quarters?
-
hmmmm?
-
But what about her viper?
-
Except Christian knows what he is.
-
So Hera meant nothing then right?
I don't get it. How did she hold the key to anything? Members of the fleet weren't infertile.
And what were the in-head balter and 6? we still don't know how they were 'in head' at all.....
And why did Roslin have visions? -
Is the Cylon God.
-
She was a manifestation made real to complete the task. Like Gandalf or Christian Shepherd.
-
although slight correction: every single line mated with a female descandant of Hera's line.
But you could never actually 'find' mitochondrial eve. -
Remember, cavil's cyclon's never acquired resurrection technology.
So they'll all die out within 50 or so years. Kara was the harbringer of death for the cyclons and brought humanity to its end (Earth). -
but I'm looking at a freeze frame of the skeleton. I'm not an expert, but I'm not seeing anything that screams pre-adolescent. "young woman" is a vague term and the kind of shoddy reporting I'd expect from msnbc, so its realistic that way.
-
...but what did in-head six help Baltar do that really effected the outcome.
-
He saw Adama kill Hera. He was right
-
Did the Centurions eventually go back and destroy the other cylon colony?
-
But heck, it could've been In-Head Six.
-
expert40: Interesting theory, especially since Anders told her he would see her on the other side before she left.
*But* how did Starbuck die for the Colonial's sins or for any redemption of those left? (That's kind of Jesus's whole deal)
Also Jesus was a rabbi/teacher, so I vote Roslin for the savior. -
it's the monkeyesque toaster baby chick that dropped out of Hera after she got boned by apemen... are we clear?
-
Just because humans were already here, it doesn't mean that their blood lines didn't eventually die out. According to the news story at the end, Hera was the only one to have a line of offspring that thrived and ended up populating the Earth.
-
Until human (and Cylon) frailty screwed things up for everlasting peace. HOWEVER, that very short peace is what led to Tyrol going nuts, which is what led to the shootout, which is what led to Starbuck entering the coordinates for Earth. It was all part of the plan. Which is what we'll be saying on LOST too.
-
To say God is real in a country where 90 some percent of people already agree with that. In science fiction, though, maybe it kind of is. I would like to believe I would have liked it, even with the God stuff, had it been done better. But as such a big fan up to this point, this was painful.
-
Where they are all bobble-heads and...hah, made ya look.
-
a couple times. Put it in a couple times, true, but also out.
-
Mar 20, 2009 10:47:53 PM CDT
My favorite moment... The Chief realizing that bitch killed Cal
by murdermostfowl
Oh fuck that was awesome. I had thought that was the biggest travesty of the show that Tory was going to get away with Murder. OH SNAP!
Oh and the fucking awesome Raptors jumping within the Landing Bay, that was on par with the atmospheric jump in from way back. -
She was the mother of modern civilization on Earth. That was made pretty clear
-
Starbuck was an "angel" of god, and when her mission was complete, she vanished (since the real Kara Thrace was dead anyway - of course, if that's the case how'd her body get to first-Earth? Didn't we see her ship explode in space?). Never mind that there's no explanation of her being the "harbinger of death" or anything.
Hera apparently died as a "young" woman but presumably old enough to bear at least one child after mating with one of the primitives, and that child was the ancestor of all of current civilization.
The Six and Baltar at the end aren't the Six and Baltar that were on Galactica, but rather were the "angels" that the live Six and Baltar had been seeing all season.
Does that sound about right? -
was Starbuck VS The Baltar and six
-
Mar 20, 2009 10:48:40 PM CDT
The Hybrid that told Starbuck she would lead humnity to it's DOO
by zillabeast
Was obviously fucking WRONG! Lol.
-
Mar 20, 2009 10:49:48 PM CDT
thanks for 3.5 great seasons Ron Moore/cast/crew, but...
by abandonedstation
This finale was awfully cliched and wasn't particularly interesting or revealing. (I pretty much signed up onto aintitcool to say this) Then again, these last ten episodes save the mutiny two-parter were awful. I'm going to pretend that the series ended when the humans and Cylons landed on the nuked earth. Much gritter and closer to the overall feeling of the first three seasons.
-
...cause he's NOT a cylon, right?
still-- wish I could know more than I got to learn with the wind-down... lots left to OUR imagination instead of writing it into the episode... Kara just disappears? She's angelic? They just up and decide to dump all their ships into the SUN? REALLY? no plan B? No need to use what they have to help them survive? They decide to WALK? The purpose was for humanity to SURVIVE, right? --so they purposely make it as HARD as possible once they make it to their (our) new earth? --I realize it was easier to fit it into our past like that so that it would lead into our history on present day earth... but it would have been COOLER to have that stuff around for possible discovery later... STILL, totally dug the series-- great work to all. Obviously we all LOVE it since it matters enough to bring about debate on so many levels:) -
Those toasters fucked shit up! Loved the "on me muthafucka" signal to Apollo.
-
Top 5 death scene's ever!
-
No, Hera doesn't die as a child, since she's the ANCESTOR OF ALL LIVING HUMANS.
-
There comment that "it doesn't like to be called that" seems awfully sinister to me. Maybe all along the cylon god was in fact Satan?
-
humanity was led to its doom by the arrival of Kara Thrace
-
But anyone could have been the mother of civilization on earth. Any woman. Why hera?
If she got eaten by a Lion after they landed on Earth, 150,000 years later people would still be here. So why was she important? -
her purpose was to write down the jump co-ordinates for our earth in music note form.
-
... not the same exact situation.Jesus, the way I believe in Jesus and Christians do, is the divine man who came from God to deliver us from sin, which was what was destroying us.Unfortunately, many listen to the message and interpret it to fit their means.Meaning, if we REALLY believe in Jesus, we wouldn't kill, we would love. We wouldn't hate, we would love. We wouldn't covet, we would love. The Beatitudes did away with "eye for an eye" and even the Ten Commandments. If we love all others as we love ourselves and love God, we would never steal, covet, kill, any of that.Okay, back to Starbuck. She delivered the Colonists and Cylons to their salvation, like Jesus has done for those who believe in Him.She was half-human and half-divine, as Jesus is.She suffered as no human being should, as Jesus did.She was resurrected by the power of God, as Jesus was.And when it was time, when she delivered her people from death, she ascended into heaven, body and spirit, just as Jesus did.Starbuck = Jesus.
-
it's saying that there's a lot of shit out there in the universe that can't be explained. there are no answers, only struggles to attempt to comprehend what happened.
-
Congrats to the crew/cast for a great 4 seasons of television
-
This was a perfect bookend to the whole series and the creators over at Lost have their work cut out for them if they want to tie for 1st place. Some excellent speeches about the nature of mankind and whatever the final budget for the finale was, it's up on the screen. Easily in the top .1% of all quality television genre episodics ever made. Ron Moore should just write finales to everybody else's series from this point on. It takes a minute to appreciate how everything ties back together to previous foreshadowing and dream sequences, etc. but otherwise, like I said, this was as close to narrative perfection as television gets.
I feel sorry for Joss & Dollhouse, though, Fox's scheduling department fell asleep at the switch tonight. -
and colonists helped humanity survive those 150,000 years? Maybe they brought along some trait or immunity that made the difference?
-
Mar 20, 2009 10:54:26 PM CDT
Ron, Douglas Adams' ghost called and said he wants his ending ba
by spyguy
Cylons are the new Golgafrinchans? FAIL.
-
everything after Cavil shot himself is a fantasy from different perspectives from different characters.
They are in a perpetual state of freefall into the naked singularity.
Due to time dilation, they will never actually enter the singularity and due to the fact it doesn't have an external event horizon they will never be destroyed.
So they're all locked in a moment, reliving, fantasizing something better than their miserable existences. -
Mar 20, 2009 10:54:34 PM CDT
Although the Racetrack Nuking was way out of left field.....
by zillabeast
Way fucking cool.
-
the legendary mansize of Jimi Hendrix and the effect that obviously had on young Hera. you know, musically.
-
Maybe we can actually be shown, instead of TOLD, their story? About the Cylon scientists who worked on Resurrection Technology, saw their planet destroyed (by who, Centurions?!) then traveled light years to warn the other HUMAN colonies about the Centurions, only to find the First Cylon War raging... So they offer Resurrection Tech and Skinjob tech in exchange for a halt to the war... and then we see Cavil screw things up... and then that gives us "The Plan". Or maybe all that WILL be in the beginning of the new movie...
-
The books, not the horrible movie. As Gorehog and LordTwinkie pointed out... The colonists arrive and wipe out the indigenous primates despite Arthur teaching them how to play scrabble. :)
"The human race is descended from those cretins over there!" -
I like that ending much better than the one we got...
-
Still better than most shite on the telly-and the dimbass president died so that was cool, however-
That finale made me glad I blew the whole series off this season.
I would rank it as better than the sopranos finale.
-mlb -
I am fucking drained!!!!!!!!!
So many moments. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Like I said to RumpleWho above: No, Hera doesn't die as a child, since she's the ANCESTOR OF ALL LIVING HUMANS.
-
I still dont understand the history of the 12 colonies, Kobol, First Earth, and Skinjob/Centurion repeating cycles...
-
how come they didn't run into Zefram Cochrane's ship?
-
...but as I loved the series, I thought the finally was just okay. Bill and Laura were handled wonderfully, but shame she couldn't enjoy a little bit more time, tyrol gets shafted, lee gets shafted, and that's basically it. It had to end, and for that I applaud the fact they gave a conclusion, but I thought it was just okay.
-
were the ones at the end. Not Caprica Six and Baltar
-
see you on the other side.
-
Just returning and wanted to respond to your earlier post regarding Merrick.I get your point, but no one said it had to be an issue of promoting any one group at the exclusion or expense of another, trading places or even taking turns to be the Big Cheese based on Census data. It's supposed to be about including every part of the human race in the best of the human experience. Merrick just seemed to be saying that was excluded from his perspective and I saw nothing wrong with his position.Clearly, I'm a big fan of the show so it wasn't an issue with me - for what it's worth.Now to the regularly scheduled re-broadcast!
-
Time will tell. TNG finale is near and dear to me heart. I'm content letting them share 1st.
-
We got the Hendrix version at the end... The dylan version is from the "real eatehr", while our world has the Hendrix version ...a clever nod to "all of this has happened before and will happen again"
-
"Hera could have had kids" -- COULD have?? The show said she definitely DID -- namely all of out ancestors. That's what "Mitochondrial Eve" means (Google it).
-
Get over it!
-
THE CYLON GAAAAAWD-UH!!!!
Wow. That was probably the most intense & smACKtack-ular 2 hours on the tube that I've been sucked into in years. I mean...I'ma huge fan of the show...but that...that was just loverly. Me & the fie-ance had a Galactica Dinner Party of sorts to celebrate the end...& truthfully...they could'nt have hammered the lid on this one shut any other way. I was thrilled shatless. So...I have'nt read everyone's theories...beause I am sure that there were alot...but am I the only human that felt like Baltar was indeed THE CYLON (or a higher powered Cylon of sorts) & was actually a guiding force in the battle of human/cylonish cultivation through the will of God...himself? No? Yes? Well...whatever...but something was up with him. He was indeed something more than the sum of his parts. The whole pigeon/Lee/Kara thing was a bit weird...but it kinda nailed shut the thing for me that Kara was indeed a "being of light/angel" of sorts. You know...this thing replays in about another 5 or 10 minutes...so maybe watching it off the bottle & all by me lonesome...might make for a bit more...logical thinking. Either way...I'm proud to say that I was/am/will be a fan of the show. It was a B-E-A-U-Tiful way to bring the bang for our bucks. Totally 100% down with Cavill shooting himself & can't wait to see if the Centurions come back to make it "all happen again...again...again...agian." -
"every surviving genetic line eventually mated with the line of Hera" -- Most likely because the BSG group had extra prestige because they could maaake things gooo.
-
I thought all we'd heard so far was the Bear McCreary version.
-
I wonder where they went.
-
Here's what really would have happened.
The humans would have died trying to kill the Toasters.
Baltar would not have lived past episode 3 of Season one.
In actuality, if the creators had the gumption, th e series would have ended at the space battle in the sky, with the cylons eradicating the humans utterly.
The epilogue would be 150000 thousand years in the future where the cylons succumb to self-destruction.
THAT would have been a good ending.
Baltar...
That dude would have been pushed out of an airlock...
Oh well,
-MLB
-
The flashacks give the characters their ultimate motivation which they get on Earth. Hera is important because it allows humans genetic recombination with Cylons. She is the key. And that's later proved by our present day calling her Eve. She DID NOT die young. Maternal mitochondrial DNA is passed in the ovum to all children born from that woman. Since it all traces back to her, she HAD TO have given reached puberty and given birth.My verdict I don't know what the haters were looking for but for me that was light years ahead of The Sopranos, above Star Trek TNG, way above DS9. And in three words. It. Was. Brilliant. Well done Ron Moore, cast, and crew.
-
expert40: first up, your statement "Jesus, the way I believe in Jesus and Christians do, is.." is absurdly broad. There are many ways to understand Jesus: philosopher/teacher/religious leader/Son of God/Son of Man (as just the tip of the iceburg). Also there are many, many, many versions of Christianity, but this ain't Sunday School.
To get back to Starbuck as Jesus: where is the suffering for collective sins? She had no moment on the cross, no persecution, no rejection of her flock. It just doesn't fit. IMHO. -
I think they could have been shortened or something. Didn't do much for me, not having seen every episode. bserkrl- I am saying Hera DID have kids. I've never suggested otherwise. I was offering up evidence in favor of our argument. Sheesh, fight with someone else.
-
My Problem was with the shitty special effects, they looked cheap cartoony and unfinished like that damn airplane crashing in the ocean in air force one. Is it really that expensive to get some comicon or dragoncon fans dressed up like centurions, they would fly there for free.
-
I am saying Hera DID have kids. I've never suggested otherwise. I was offering up evidence in favor of our argument. Sheesh, fight with someone else.
-
"How did she hold the key to anything?" -- Without her we wouldn't all be descended from Cylons.
-
In a manner of speaking, Kara first led them to the dead original Earth, which was the site of humanity's doom.
-
Mar 20, 2009 11:04:35 PM CDT
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Battlestar-Galacticas-Ron-1004256.as
by zeroscum
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Battlestar-Galacticas-Ron-1004256.aspx?rss=breakingnews&partnerid=imdb&profileid=01
-
Thought this ending was great. Tied up all the loose strings, more or less, looking at you Starbuck. Hera was obviously important in that she ended up being the cradle of life for all of us now. The in-heads were explained to be angels of god, sure it was a conclusion come to by Baltar but I think we as viewers have to accept it to be true. And with Starbuck Ron Moore needs to give an explanation of this. Either she was an in-head angel like 6 and Baltar, or an angel sent back in physical form. Shitty writing on Moore's part to explain this.
All in all, great ending to a great show. Thanks to all involved for 4 seasons of amazing television -
who wins?
-
Mar 20, 2009 11:05:47 PM CDT
Would've been slightly funny if they sent all D'Annas...
by murdermostfowl
If they sent all the D'Annas to New Zealand.
-
and the talkback is way too noisy for most to follow the conversations.
In other words, a fun time. -
"real Kara Thrace was dead" -- The real Kara Thrace was the same as this one; she was an angel (or whatever) all along.
-
Starbuck just vanishes into thin air? Lame. Those fuckers wouldn't last a week out there with no shelter and no food. Where are they going to get the seeds to plant crops? I like that they made it to Earth, but blowing up all their ships? Dumb. Woulda made some nice condos outta them big ass boats.
-
Man such a great ending to a great series.
-
The only way to fix all the inconsistencies and holes in the story was just use a 'divine' explanation! Should work because people lap that crap up every day anyhow in their daily lives, should work for a tv show!
Dont look behind the curtain folks! Nothing to see!
So all the people who've been running for their lives from the everpresent threat of annihilation, after having all their relatives and worlds DESTROYED, are now going to be cool with just parking in a field, throwing up a lean-to and doing away with the only means of defense they have (their fleet)? LOL.
BTW, now that they committed to a divine explanation of the in-heads, see if that fits with all the previous advice and motivations they purported throughout the series. I bet it fits perfectly! LOL.
I've never seen such a hokey showdown. At CIC im surprised Cavil wasnt twirling his mustache as he tried to sneak out with Hera. "I'll just be going now thank you" or some other cornball nonsense. BTW, why did he kill himself? Seemed rather convenient! -
No, it's not Baltar who's immortal, it's the Baltar-appearing angel who is.
-
What movie had someone punching in codes on a keypad and the different tones played a song? Not much to go on but it's driving me crazy trying to remember what movie or show it is from.
-
They were my favorite part of the show, though they dont like to be called In-Heads.
-
I didn't see anything to make me think she was an angel all along. Although in-head Leoben did lead her to her death. It's all so confusing.
-
I am very gratified that RDM and company managed to create an ending that not only is worthy of the series, it is arguably the best episode of the series. Great action and emotionally satisfying character development. No time travel cop-out. All the answers I needed. It built on pretty much all that came before it, not just the last year or so. All the suffering and fighting turned out to be worth it. Even Cally's death was not in vain. Satisfying on so many levels. The use of the classic Centurians was great. And one of my favorite moments was the beautifully scored scene where the rag-tag fugitive fleet flew into their sunset with the original BSG main theme. Sweet. And the open question of whether this will happen again is far better than a forgone conclusion that it would. Loved the concluding robot montage that turned happy new technology into a possibly (but not necessarily) forboding vision. I could go on and on, but I'll leave that to others and go get some sleep. Thanks to all at BSG. Well done.
-
Kara was always connected to her destiny, but I don't think she was an angel all along.
-
Instrument of god. Makes perfect sense to me.
-
But everyone involved with the show didn't.
God and angels? Kara just disappearing? I'm not an action person just to let you know, I'm a story person and they took the cheap easy way out on the story. And yes I've heard the "it's all about the characters" line, but isn't the true mark of great tv the ability to combine both story and character?
I am prepared to be called a hater, but just know you are an apologist. Want proof? Look at everyone's post and I mean everyone's during the middle of the show calling it the greatest thing ever. Now look at everything after that. And did you notice the lack of enthusiasm? -
Or Leoben?
-
When you listen to Gaelin Tyrol talk about what he's going to do with his life, and he explains the land he's going to as being an island with highlands and very northern where it gets cold. When he's saying all this there's celtic music playing in the background. Did anyone else think that perhaps he's talking about what is now Scotland. Perhaps he begins the culture of Scottish people.
Think about it, Gaelin...native language is Gaelic. Gaelin>>>Gaelic, eh? eh? eh? -
Yes, I mean that version. I never even knew there was anything other than the Hendrix version before BSG, so I'm ignorant there... but my observation still holds... we get a different version of the song for a different iteration of the human experience, or whathaveyou. :)
-
When Roslin died she shoulda voided her bowels and Adama shoulda gone *phew* and made a stinky face
-
Mar 20, 2009 11:10:06 PM CDT
zeroscum, thanks for the TV guide link...Ron Moore reveals all
by zillabeast
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Battlestar-Galacticas-Ron-1004256.aspx
-
Close Encounters of the Third Kind? If so, you lose one (1) internet for not knowing that film by heart.
-
With Charlie in the Looking Glass. As did Short Circuit 2 (which had toasters!) if my memory serves correctly?
-
Hera the mother of humanity on earth. That is her purpose. Kind of like what Lucy is in real life.
-
And she was the only copy after Resurrection was destroyed?
-
... does anyone else find that frakking awesome?An island in the northern continent, he says uninhabited, but not for long.GALEN goes to Scotland, and from him the Gaelic people spring.
-
There is a Leoben talking with someone ( Adama maybe? ) after the colony ships make the jump to "new" earth.
-
The way I see it, Starbuck was human, and then an angel. Angels took the form of Six and Baltar out of expediency(effectiveness in conveying what they needed - human Baltar and cylon Six would listen to them in the forms they took because of their corporeal relationship) and perhaps an affection for them.
-
My friend pointed out to me that since all the Sharons are exact duplicates, they would have passed on the same genetics. Possibly the Sixes have the same basic genetics.That means that the remains may not have been Hera's although I do think they allude to it heavily.
-
no, no, no
Like someone said up thread, he became Santa -
See topic.
-
Cavil, who was obsessed with survival, just frakking offs himself? That made no sense to me. I suppose not explaining Starbuck's situation was supposed to lend an air of mystery? For the last ep ever, I think we needed more there than just innuendo. And what's with Athena's reaction to Boomer? I understand the whole being pissed off at the kidnapping thing, but Athena's reaction seemed a bit harsh given the evolving circumstances. At least it was a somewhat positive ending. The way the last couple of seasons have gone, I really expected them all to die.
-
That's what I was thinking about, It made me think of Starbuck punching in the FTL coordinates. which happen to be: 112365365321
-
I wonder where he and the rest of the Skinjobs settled.
-
Agree with BigMick...cept for the "shitty writing" bit...but opinions are for the making. I agree with the loose strings all being knotted, Hera being the COL, & tied & that it was a great ending...my take on Kara is that it's a "leap of faith" scenario. I loved the open ended answer for her...more or less that we are SUPPOSED to keep asking ourselves what she was in the end & how we take away her meaning with us...for ourselves. I keep wanting to latch on to her being a Cylon...that seems only logical...Final Five or not...or Angel...whatever. In the end...she had always been there from start to finish & was part of the Cylon prophecy...so what else could she be, right? Wrong. Now there's the immortal angel bit. I find it hard to latch on to her being in everyone's head...because she was too physical in Hera's liberation & the interaction between the two that followed the "jump co-ordinates" that were tuned in to "The Watch Tower."
Alright...it's back on...so...TOOTLES!!!
Have a loverly evening gentles. -
I was never convinced that the post armageddon 'Earth' was our Earth. And now we know it wasn't. (insert drumroll) Told ya so! :-)
-
The ending certainly had its high points.
I liked how they resolved Helo, Athena, Hera, Boomer, Cavil, Adama, Anders, and Roslin (I guess that the whole "won't live to see thee promised land" thing meant she won't get to enjoy it. Hey, even Moses got to look at the promised Land for a few minutes. I'm not upset with that.)
What I did NOT like was how the series resolved Lee and Kara. Particularly Kara. I get what they were going for, but I don't think it was written particularly well. I liked the pigeon motif, but I don't like that Kara just disappeared at the end and that Lee was cool with it. It didn't ring true. I think just letting her live would have made everyone happy and would have at least had as much impact.
I just didn't care for Tyrol's resolution. It was too plain. It gave no sense of who he was going to be and how he felt about Boomer or the death of Tory. ....Tory. Bitch got what she deserved.
I also didn't like Ellen's contribution. While I liked how it ended for Tigh and Ellen, I feel a bit cheated on the setup they gave it in RAZOR.
I guess the whole prophecy about the Fifth Cylon was deleted FOR A REASON, and isn't supposed to be taken as canon... still, I wish I had been given some warning. The whole "and the fifth, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering" prophecy WAS A DELETED SCENE, yet it was in the extended version on DVD. RDM never mentioned that fans should ignore it, so my expectations weren't met on that front.
On the topic of prophecy, we didn't get an explanation as to hoiw/why Kara is the harbinger of death. Was the prophecy nixed when Starbuck realized that her dad's song was the way to Earth? Was she the harbinger of death because she lead them to Earth 1 and found everyone dead? Was she the harbinger of death because she HERSELF had died? Did the "lead them to their end" mean lead them to New Earth, and not "to their detruction"? Does that make her the angel the hybrid prophecied about ("they will reach the promised land gathered on the wings of an angel")? I think that WAS left too ambiguous. I could probably live with the ambiguity a little easier if I felt Starbuck had been given a better sendoff than simply disappearing at the end.
Other gripe is that the whole "let's abandon technology!" thing played off a little too easy. I think the concept could have worked, but the execution was poor. I also don't know what the hell happened to the 8s, 2s, and 6s. They explained it so fast I didn't catch it.
What I thought worked GREAT were the Adama, Tigh, Lee, Kara, and Anders flashbacks (Roslin's was truly pointless). Adama drunk looking up at the stars was a great moment. So was telling that suit to frak off. I loved how the Opera House motif played out. I loved the revelation of why Hera was important. I loved the ending with the Angels commenting on present day Earth. The clips of robotic technology was also a great touch. The action scenes were done very well. I was very impressed by Galactica ramming the colony and the invasion afterwards (best battle sequence in the series is still Pegasus saving Galactica). I liked that Cavil shot himself, but the breaking of the truce could have been directed a little better.... was the colony destroyed?... hmm.
Loose ends recap: Starbuck WTF; What are God's motives (funny to write that thought)? Were the prophecies of the Hybrid fulfilled, or werethey ignored? Who were the Lords of Kobol?.... really, that's it. There may be a few minor questions, but those are the only biggies.
Logical assumptions: AATW, Kara's visions and music and painting, Hera's drawings, the visions of the Temple Five and the Operahouse, and Kara's resurrection were all orchestrated by God. All the Daniel's truly did die as suggested. Doral's suggestion to have Lee fly the cap was just Doral's way of faking human sentimentality (which he had none of, the series proves). -
like most bad guy leaders, he is a coward.
He offs himself to escape.
The final escape -
"where is the suffering for collective sins?" She loses Anders the man the she loves (equal to Lee) and her constant searching for meaning in her life and the realization that she's not human."She had no moment on the cross, no persecution, no rejection of her flock" How about when she disappeared into the vortex which is analogous to the 40 days in the desert and when she returns Gaeta and the rest of the Viper squadron totally disown her cause they "don't even know what" she is. She used to be top dog, now the fleet and even Adama early on thinks or thought she might the enemy.
-
Moonraker-james bond movie has a keypad gag that plays the close encounters theme.
-
... "woah" when they jumped to the future. This was VERY satisfying. They have set the bar high. Anyone not expecting some kind of religious elements to the finale didn't pay attention to the source material. This was moving, exciting, final.
-
That shit is frakkin hilarious. "And the Elves were from the red planet. And there was much defecation."
-
You either jump, jack. Or you don't. That's how it is. RDM and Co. have given it to you to decide. You either accept their conclusions, or you do not. Nevertheless; everyone theoretically survived. Tory died for killing a kick ass woman, and Gaelin moves Scotland. While Bill gets to live in a beautiful place. Good times. Good times all around.
-
I hope the ghost of Douglas Adams invades Ron Moore's bedroom and violates him! This was clearly a rip-off of the end of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (as many other posters have also noted). I, also, couldn't stop thinking about the scrabble bag as Galaticans were watching homonids. Come on Ron! Don't you have ANY original creative ideas in that swollen head of yours? I also thought of the third Matrix movie towards the end ... multiple re-iterations of the Neo anomaly and the repeated death and re-birth of Zion. And I guess the whole Opera House thing was right in front of us all along ... OPERAtions center.
-
but I don't think he's inventing the bagpipe or anything. I think we are supposed to think he really spends the rest of his life alone. Besides, the celts originated in mainland europe and didn't hit the british isles till relatively late (last millenium of the bce). But I still like the idea of it.
-
erichaislar, you're explanation makes perfect sense. And is very simple, Starbuck has been an instrument of God. The whole meaning of her being from birth has been to bring humanity to peace.
D.Vader did you actually have your eyes open during the show or are you retarded? Leoben was standing in the room with all the characters when he told them that the cylons, 2's, 6's, and 8's would stay on earth and see if they can possibly contribute to help building a new culture for everyone. And D'anna stayed on the first Earth they found, they established that in the second episode of the second half of the season. Jesus christ! -
Except that the Gaels were descended from Indo-Europeans who migrated into Northern Europe from Central Asia far more recently than 150,000 years ago.
-
Just so you guys know.
-
Kara killed the Cylons. She brought about their end, and found humanity a home. Journey complete. Kara Thrace advances to HEAVEN!
-
"can some explain why Cavil, who was obsessed with survival, just frakking offs himself?"---- Cavil was fucked any way you slice it. The Colony was nuked, and he was in a room full of Galactica's crew with guns trained.
-
If he lived there by himself and then, you know, died, why would anyone pick up the name Galen?
-
Angels in many mythologies have taken a physical form that can interact on our level. They are not always merely visions. So it is not a problem for me that Kara was human and then died and came back as an angel that took physical form. And the confirming of the existance of a caring God makes anything possible, including the sparkly new viper and the other 'miracles.' Not a problem.
-
Just finished watching and I wanted to take a sec to extend a big THANK-YOU for all your insight and ideas over the years. It really has made this a more enjoyable viewing experience. BSG will now take its rightful place near the top of the list of my most favorite television shows/experiences. Lost is now officially the best show on tv.
-
A few things strike me:
In the last scene, Baltar says he doesn't like that name (God). The last entity in the temple was he that could not be named.
Also, it wasn't a coincidence that Doc Cottle remarked that the natives buried their dead. In the magazine, Hera (adult obviously) was ritually buried. -
do we know for sure that either Galactica went back in time or that somehow there history predates ours? are they are antescedants?
-
Early season, really liked his char.
But he kinda became the misery dumpster the final season.
His avenging Cally felt hollow after his speach about having to settle for her.
I like the Cally char and looking forward to seeing Nicki Clyne in future performances -
and 2 super fuckin hot cylon wimmen, i bet he also made up some fuckin cyborg reindeer and shit and then made his own boomer and six and shit to party with
-
I don't think he was a coward, I think Cavill was fed up. He was like, "So i'm stuck in this biological body forever and all this BS with humans and Cylons can just go fuck themselves. Remember, how irritated he was when he said, "Thank you for expalining the obvious. It makes me feel so much better." He started to get pissed at his own people (nice Boomer). So I just think in his mind he had two choices 1)fight and live in a world where everything and everyone disappoints him or 2) say "Fuck it!" and call it a day. He chose #2.
-
I knew it from the moment we saw it.. they never showed the planet from orbit in any way you could recognize. And I had been all over the TBs pushing the connection to the BSG original series "Terra" story parallel. I loved this ending... yes there were a few nitpicks of course, but I loved it.
-
Starbuck crashed on earth, so God said, "we cant have that!" God then popped into existence a new pristine ship, made a copy of her, and sent them back to the Galactica! WOW, that is really dumb! Think through all the 'revelations' in this episode and how they then fit or dont fit into the series itself. Its horrible.
What was revealed, what was the truth? I think its that they were making it up as they went along, and used the ultimate deus ex machina, GOD, in the end to try and tidy it all up.
Come on folks, you are smarter than this. This is not quality writing. For ANY GENRE. -
"I think you could call her an angel, you could call her a demon, the second coming or the first coming, I guess, chronologically speaking. You can say that she had a certain messiah-like quality, in the classic resurrection story"
-
don't you know it's cooler to say something sucks, so that you can stand out as a critic? I thought it was good. First half made up for all the lack of action we've had this season. If there was one flaw, it was that the scenes with the "angels" Gaius and Caprica 6 felt a bit awkward. I guess they were acting that way b/c it turns out they're some kind of super intelligent trans-dimensional beings and that's how they talk when they're not trying to convince people to listen to them (I'm referring to the way they talk at the end.)I don't understand the whole Lee and Bill parting. I couldn't imagine leaving my son like that with no way to know where he is or what happens to him. Unless, there was a pre-decided location for a village? I guess the second viewing will help it digest.
-
to be one of those colonial fleet guys right now.Think about it. You've spent years struggling to eke out a living in the stars, toiling hopelessly. Then, all of the sudden, after what seems like an eternity, you find an eminently habitable planet that you must repopulate. And who must you fornicate repeatedly with to bring about said repopulation? A whole bunch of Tricia Helfers and Grace Parks.Life could be MUCH worse.
-
Mar 20, 2009 11:23:43 PM CDT
Ron Moore could produce a hell of a Galen Tyrol Santa Claus seri
by zillabeast
Better than that Tim Allen shit.
-
a'right, now we're havin fun
-
We got resolution with EVERYONE on Earth as far as where they were settling EXCEPT for the Cylons (minus the 5 and 6/Batlar). It's a just question. I've said before I haven't seen all the episodes this season.
-
let me say this...
if they're saying that somehow god made humans also evolve on two different planets, thats bullshit. thats crappy and lazy sci fi -
Remember the In-Head Leoben? I think God wanted to make sure the colonials found Earth destroyed as a message. If they never find it, and stumble upon some other planet to live on, the cycle can not be broken (Lee never has the idea to go native).
-
He became Sants Claws
Chiefs all fucked in the head after what he went thru -
That was worth at least 20 minutes of exposition, if not more.
Don't get me wrong - love the show. Sad to see it go.
-
His moment was spectacularrrrr
-
Boomer flashback to telling Adama he would pay him back would have been way more effective if they had shown that in the previous episode. We would have all through she was foreshadowing her eventual attempt on his life. Then they could reference it again... at the beginning of this episode, and it would have made her final scene more powerful.
-
Has a resuurrection ship
-
kara thrace's ending? sackhoff maybe upset because it means she's been playing not a human but something else all these months. but the great thing about is it says that her death was NOT a cop out. even back then, when tv shows cheaply kill characters for ratings and then ressurect them through ridiculous plot twists.. thrace's death still maters at the end. it can't be avoided, it has a cost. and callie's death, I thought abandoned, mattered crucially. moore always seemed to want to avoid what the predictable thing was, and for all these seasons there's been so much focus on the chosen one kara thrace, her special destiny... he gave us exactly what we wanted even though it fuckin hurts. and furthermore, didn't anyone else get that all these character beats and flashbacks and resolutions had to do on some meta level who the actors were? boomer's insecurity and time with the older seasoned vets and whether or not she can hack it with them but needing them to be family, katee sackhoff's fearlessness but need to be remembered, edward james olmos' care for what's right as opposed to what's necessary, bamber's idealism covering up flaws and cynicism... kinda deep shit.
-
Great band, I wonder if that's how Six got her designation? Cause it's like Caprica Gaius was Adam, she was Eve, and the mainframe codes were the apple? Ah yes the things we do for love... After the fall...
-
When Wildstar decided to ram Desslok's flagship with the Argo, which led to fierce gunplay. I loved SB and I'm not sure if Moore thought about, or even saw the show, but that's what I thought of at that very moment.
-
Good call So-Crates for reminding us of such an awesome idea that got lost there at the end. Shoulda had a shot of all those women grabbing hands with random humans.
-
When Jean Luc "dies" and Q says he's God. It was inspired writing, particularly Jean Luc's immediate dismissal that he is not god, like it would be more convincing to him that Wesley was God than Q.
-
and when I say Jesus, I mean my hispanic neighbor.
-
That he threw at all the hominid children that came near his cave.
-
And they go make him a frakkin Admiral! Love it!
-
Calvil had always treated everyone with at the best contempt while manuplipitating them. Middle, tortured them. Worst, he fucked with them on levels we can only guess at.
He couldn't concieve anyone treating him otherwise.
He whined about pain on new caprica.
You bet your ass he took the cowards way out -
I'm done for the night. My bracket is inexorably destroyed. And I need sleep. So say we all.
-
An episode with different EVE models.
-
And you know it, too.
-
I forgot how quickly Picard dismisses Q and his God-talk.
-
Anders is used as a weapon like the frozen telepaths in Babylon 5.
-
It was a great ride, was it not?See you around some other TBs, no doubtCaprica and The Plan for sure....
-
Could there have been more plot holes, leaps of logic, deviations from established character and story?
Lots of deus ex machina (emphasis on deus, haha).
Baltar's cult? Total waste of time. Kara's arc? Joke of a resolution, as there was none. Decision to ditch tech after fighting for survival for four years? Makes no sense, of course, but had to be done so writers could execute lame "exit logic so it can line up with our history" ploy. -
Grace Park on Attack of the Show.
-
I just wish they'd have explained it in a more pragmatic way. Like as in the long run the tech wouldn't help them and would be a crutch. Sell it like they're the conquistadores burning their ships so they could commit to survival. "QUEME LOS BARCOS"
-
'nufs, 'nuf
Might watch the plan.
But the BSG 'verse, for me, ends here. -
Mar 20, 2009 11:37:01 PM CDT
zillabeast... yeah I thought it was cool he got something in the
by murdermostfowl
I mean when your boyfriend (ol'
stumpy) betrays you and sends you off to be executed, and you still manage to hold your composure till then end, you should get a medal.
It was a fun scene to have two nobodies be given thei highest titles possible after everyone else is elaving going on a suicide mission. To me that's the real cleverness of the show. You can sit back and feel that scene... where they're saying to themselves... what the hell am I going to do being the president of the colonies? And yet they know you have to do something. -
D.Vader, I apologize. I got way too carried away in my post in response to you. But that is what happened with the Cylons.
Berserkl you are probably absolutely right. All I know of my Scotland history is that the Scottish culture was started by the settlement of vikings centuries upon centuries ago. However the gaels, who were there beforehand probably were there less recently than 150,000 years. I just don't know. However, let's not kid ourselves we're also talking about a show which states our ancestory is all because a bunch of humans couldn't get along with their robots, hahaha. So I think in the context of the show they can be a little creative with how they explain things. -
Thanks for the props. And thank you for your thoughtful posts - I've enjoyed them - and way to go on the Terra parallel. And you are spot-on about the Boomer flashback. It worked OK for me, but would have given more resinance to her last scenes if the flashback had been used as foreboding in the way you suggested.
-
All you have to do is look more closely. Open your fucking eyes. Baltar's following led to monotheist. Kara is pretty much Jesus. While giving up tech is what MAKES US EXIST LONGER THAN THE 13 TRIBES EVER DID.
Add it up man. Lee had the right idea to break the cycle. It kept us going longer than they ever did. -
No Worries, no harm done. Just a kneejerk reaction on both our parts. Thanks for the info though.
-
but uh, who does he fuck up there? can the final five jerk themselves new people? or is moore saying that scotsmen are fucked up tools who let women get the better of them, but they're good engineers. like scotty? ahahaha. http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
-
Tune in and soak in the FX
-
...and say that it was horrible, etc. Let's just say that I was very disappointed. Given the past few episodes, my expecations were already low...and reality couldn't even reach that level. At least I'll save a few hundred bucks...since I'm not going to buy the DVD series now.
-
Damn brackets.
-
Or is this show actually good and worth watching one day?
-
The Best series I've ever seen. Here's my ranking: BEST SEASON (tie) Seasons 1&2. 2ND PLACE: Season 4. 3RD PLACE: Season 3.
Episode ranking: THE AMAZING (some of the best television I've ever seen)---
1. Unfinished Business
2. The Captain’s Hand
3. Sometimes a Great Notion
4. Blood on the Scales
5. Razor Flashbacks
6. Resurrection Ship Part 2
7. Resurrection Ship Part 1
8. Exodus p2
9. Pegasus
10. The Hand of God
11. 33
THE GREAT------
12. Daybreak Part 2
13. He That Believeth in Me
14. The Oath
15. Crossroads P2
16. Occupation/Precipice
17. Scattered
18. Home P2
19. Flesh and Bone
20. Litmus
21. Revelations
22. Six Degrees of Separation
23. Miniseries
24. Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down
25. Razor
26. Islanded in a Stream of Stars
THE GOOD-----
27. Dirty Hands
28. Maelstrom
29. Exodus P1
30. Ldybp2
31. Sacrifice
32. Fragged
33. Scar
34. Crossroads P1
35. No Exit
36. Someone To Watch Over Me
37. Daybreak P1
38. Collaborators
39. Valley of Darkness
40. Act of Contrition
41. Flight of the Phoenix
42. LDYBP1
43. Home P1
44. Black Market
45. Sine Qua Non
46. KLGP2
46. Daybreak Part 3
47. The Passage
48. YCGHA
49. Water
THE "MEH"-----
50. Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?
51. Escape Velocity
52. The Son Also Rises
53. The Eye of Jupiter
54. Colonial Day
55. Faith
56. Hero
57. Webisodes: The Resistance
58. The Hub
59. Epiphanies
60. Disquiet That Follows My Soul
61. Rapture
62. Six of One
63. The Ties That Bind
64. Final Cut
65. Resistance
66. Torn
67. Bastille Day
68. The Road Less Travelled
69. KLG Part 1
70. Taking a Break
71. A Measure of Salvation
72. Downloaded
73. The Farm
THE BAD------
74. The Woman King
75. Deadlock
THE GODAWFUL, PLEASE MAKE IT STOP SHITBURGER------
76. A Day in the Life
77. The Face of the Enemy
-
The more I think about this the less happy I am about the ending to the series. So the point was to bring one person to Earth to be our common matrilineal ancestor? couldnt one of the Homo Erectus been "chosen" to fill that role? If it was so critical the cycle be broken why didnt God just scrap the whole thing and start over with the Earth2 proto humans? I just dont understand what bearing having the Galactica crew on earth had other than to have a happy ending with the Galactica crew on earth.
-
Mar 20, 2009 11:45:47 PM CDT
i want a two hour movie about adm hoshi and pres lampkin
by kenny_fuckin_powers
the second gay admiral! and his siimy president!
-
The reference to "It Doesn't like that name" is referring to Satan. Note the colors that Six and Baltar In Heads are wearing. Black and red, colors that represent darkness and hell. Demons, a.k.a. angels of SATAN, usually temp a singular person in the history of demonolgy. Angels, represented in the bible, usually appear before many. That might be stretching it a bit. BUT, regardless, if you read in between the lines and look for the clues, they represent demons of Satan. Satan fucks with man's free will. Thus, he always manages to prove that humans are a faulty creation. Satan and his followers in heaven (He was previously Lucifer, second to the throne of God) didn't take to God's love for humans. Hey, sound familiar? Cylons hated humans.So Cylons are Satan's own creation. He tempted human's knowledge and intelligence. Thusthey created Satan's creation that always seems to wipe out humans. Over and over and over. It's the constant battle between Good vs. Evil. Light vs. Darkness. God vs. Satan.
Kara was an angel sent down to tip the scales a bit because in the end, according to the bible, God always prevails. -
6 years of my life!
-
The original BSG was based on Mormon theology/mythology for the most part, right? All Moore did was bring it back to its roots as an Exodus story. "They say that life began out there," indeed...
-
MASS HYSTERIA!
-
To those trash talking this-- get a life, really. YOu're the same people who have been bitching forever, trying to prove you could have somehow done it better or just trying to get a flame war going. What would have satisfied you? future earth--lame. modern earth-lame, tribal earth-the only way to do it. All the greek mythology names now have meaning. But you haters are FUCKING TRANSPARENT. Where was the hate with all the explosions and action? you all were jerking each other's boners off, proving that you are only watching this show for the effects and action, the two things the show isn't about. They clearly saved their budget for the big final send off in a crazy action scene--like all you bitches wanted. What would you have preferred: little bits of action over season 4 and a final action scene with a little space but mostly marine stuff? As anyone who is a true fan of the show knows--its about characters. We (the real fans) been watching (and enjoying) the character centric show, so when this episode came around, you could go balls to the wall action and it would be grounded in our appreciation for the character development. All those 'filler' episodes created the backbone for the final action... making it mean something. Its a joke--you haters made it sooo clear that, without a shadow of a doubt, you watch this show for the wrong reasons. Go rewatch the action and jerk off while the true fans take in a very satisfying ending. Get over yourselves, you have sad, sad lives.
-
Awesome bringback! I hadn't thought of it (Anders=frozen telepath from Babylon 5) until you just posted it. Way to go!!! Yet another 'borrowing' from B5 by RDM. I'm sure you know that DS9 owes it's last four seasons' excellence to learning from B5. And they borrowed so many ideas, even to the point of re-using titles of episodes. And, I'm OK with that. DS9 needed the infusion. Just goes to show the depth of B5. Great show, even with its flaws. (and if anyone is not familiar with B5, make sure you watch it from the very beginning and watch it in order. The first time you do, watch the pilot and then Seasons 1 through 4. Skip all of Season 5 except for the very last episode, which was filmed at the end of Season 4. "Sleeping In Light" seen right after season 4, as originally intended will be one of the best times you'll have. It gets you right where it counts, deep down.)
-
You made a great call. I think I have to go back over all the old TBs and give people their props where it's due. There have been some really great analyses, theories and debate that has gone on here, and I've always been impressed with what people have gotten right.
-
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/03/20/battlestar-galactica-watched-the-finale-still-got-questions-weve-got-answers/
-
I had forgotten that his former commander caught teh Ghey as well.
-
The jury is split on this episode! Holy hell. Half the people love it, half the people hate it. At least that means BSG didn't play it safe.
-
She is the proof that not only can Cylons and humans coexist in peace, but that doing so will result in a new race, the human race.
-
Excellent post- way to take the angel angle to the next level. Very thought-provoking. Props to you!
-
That quote is so over used, I wonder why they put that in there.
-
no doubt I will be thinking on it for some time.
it will be the 4th serirs I purchase on DVD.
1) Firefly
2) Angel
3) InuYasha (i'm such a girl)
4) BSG
-
...fucking time. I am a casual viewer. Watch it pretty regularly with my friend who is a die hard fan. I know enough to understand what has been going on. I hope you all realize this ending was a big joke on all of the die hards. They could've ended this any number of different ways...but they (Moore) went with a generic philisopical/controversial/conspiracy thoery that totally DODGES answering the question everyone wanted answered; i.e the easy way out. Unfortunately, Lost will probably take the same approach. You all got fucked and screwed by Ronald "Patel."
-
Thanks! One other thing- did it seem to you that some of the cylon guns (exterior- shooting at Galactica) were a lot like Babylon 5's guns?
-
At least I have only seen about 2 references to masturbation. I think that is a new low for this site.
My bottom line is this: I loved that there is happy ending to this show. This contrasts to a much much inferior show ST:Voyager. On Voyager I just felt they should have just been destroyed in the last episode. They had not earned a happy ending. I am happy that the people in BSG found earth and (at least one person) got busy.
For me, BSG was the perfect way for viewers to digest the problems of our times. I love that it attacked problems like abortion, torture, and execution without the PC blinders on. I love how the decisions were hard, and the characters suffered for them.
All told, the last season or so hasnt been very good, but the miniseries and first couple seasons were sensational and for that, I am glad that they got a Happy Ending. Goodbye BSG! -
Nope. Just feeling a little exploited after a substantial investment.
Be sure to catch Caprica on Wednesdays at 9:00, followed shortly by Fridays at 10:00.
-
who wins?
-
But the human race, or at least one similar enough for reproduction (as i am not sure they are actually refered to as humans, but I believe they were) was already on Earth. Also Cylons and Humans had lived in peace before, they just never reproduced together apparently. Hera was no guarantee of permanent peace anyway - look at all the violence and destruction getting her back caused!
-
Because by the time you get to "these are the voyages" it'll be a little silly.
But, um, I think Daybreak wins. Both work really well for their universes, though, so its hard to compare. -
Obviously the Canadians are cylons... the series was all a prequel for south park: the movie
-
What are you talking about? This was an amazing ending--exactly what many fans wanted. I'm not at all sure what you're talking about with fans being fucked--this episode was a love letter to fans of BOTH series.
-
Daybreak, hands down. DS9's ending was good for that show, but it still suffered from the Brannon/Braga influences. Sisko's ending was less than satisfying. BSG had a lot more to it. And it was grittier, more tangible somehow.
-
no ship of lights, no count iblis, a supernatural cop out ending
The colonist and cylons raiding the proto human camps for big time rape partys.
Yeah, thats a story book ending
Unicorns and all -
both of them ( and starwars guns ) are all modeled after WWII guns, so this didn't bother me at all.
-
She ended the cycle and ceased to exist. Hmmm...wasn't Roslin in that flick?
-
And thanks to Herc for his faithful BSG coverage.As Chromedome said, hope to see you in other TBs.
-
There were some things I didn't like: Starbuck, lack of any discussion of how they will survive, the lameness of what Baltar and Caprica were seeing that vision for. I was kind of hoping for a more explicit original Galactica "ships of light" and such but that might be a bit much but on the other hand unlike most television shows this seemed to have a real end and I don't have any desire to see what happens next or to see a reunion.Moore was right though when he said that no one had guessed the ending. I know I didn't guess that it would end with a montage of robots! (although finding "another" Earth was predictable)And If I want to think Daniel was Starbuck's dad then I still can because nothing in the show directly contradicted it.
-
Let's face it, Firefly sucked
-
i don't need to be told that i 'got fucked and screwed by ronald' Lots of us don't feel that way... what are you proving? ok, you didn't like it, no big deal... but where do you get off telling me how i got fucked and screwed? i was only fucked and screwed because it was great while it lasted and now i am satisfied--its what happens after you have sex, but i have a feeling some of you only imagine what sex is like and still think a breast feels like a damn bag of sand. If you didn't like the ending, come here and tell us... it doesn't bother me at all. who the fuck do you think you are to assume that we all feel like we got fucked with this ending? what's completely PATHETIC is that you a) think we all were let down and most importantly b) you get a twisted sense of satisfaction by thinking we were let down. I mean, really, to think you know what we felt about it, that's one thing... but to laugh because you think we all were let down is BEYOND PATHETIC. Fucking talkbackers... i can see why harry and herc and everyone doesn't want to be seen as 'fanboys' because the definition of a fanboy has changed since this site was made... fanboys have become the most immature people who have a false sense of entitlement and get off on hating shit. Seriously, for the third time, you are pathetic. I wouldn't want to be associated with any of you fanboys--i now completely understand why the runners of this site want to have nothing to do with any of you...
-
That commercial was out of nowhere. Sooo... anyone have the scoop on this? I assume it will be like razor.
-
Absolutely- you are right. I wasn't complaining - just noting another B5 simularity.
-
It's all there in front of you. Go watch it again.
-
That would be Short circuit 2 that also had a punching in numbers to a keypad music scene.
-
A fine ending to perhaps the best science fiction series of all time. Damn near broke my heart seeing Galactica pounded and broken, groaning under her last jump. Very emotional. A beautiful send-off to a show that I was absolutely convinced would not have a happy ending. I hope all of you out there who, like me, felt angered or disappointed by the last few episodes leading up to this, were able to put aside their cynicism just long enough to shed a tear for the old girl. Here's to Battlestar Galactica. So say we all.
-
But you have to remember the history between the two races before Hera. It was a cycle of violence that ended in genocide.And it was not a peace that existed between Cylon and human, it was a truce. A truce that was broken time and again. After Hera there was peace between Cylon and Human. Not a truce, but real peace as evidenced by our present day existence.
-
so many holes in the final season it was distracting.
-
So say we all!
-
Firefly was aborted prematuraly.
I don't know why, but someone in the network seemd to have a beef with either the guy behind the show or some aspect of the show.
And did everything in their power to make sure it failed.
Don't consider myself a browncoat or a whedonite, but I'd loved to see that series play out. -
Has to provide explicit point-by-point reasons why they think it sucked. If they can't do that, they are simply poseurs full of shit and not worthy of recognition. Next.
-
DC-8's and volcanos.. obviously the colonists should have been lined up around the volcanoes and nuked.
Oops... sorry... wrong fake religion.
-
That would explain all the square wheels on cars in Vancouver location shooting.
-
That makes god one evil frakker to make his creations suffer like this and then rinse, wash, repeat.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
--Epicurus-- -
I'm a BSG basher, and didn't hate the finale. Most every plot thread was given some sort of ending, even if those endings sometimes lacked explanation or logic. The assault sequence was cool (except for the eternally comic pretentiousness of the "Opera House"), and Baltar's religo-babble speech was well delivered. Eh, I could go on, but no one gives a shit and I don't want to rain on you BSG lovers' parades. Congratulations on having a series finale.
p.s. Your show is still second-rate compared to Babylon 5. :) -
Correct me if im wrong, but the exterior shot at the end of when they first revealed Earth (1), clearly showed 'our' earth (end of S3). Clear as day show of North America.
So then we now learn in the finale that nope earth 2 is 'our' earth. Both were the same, or is this just retconning/poor writing?
-
Mar 21, 2009 12:16:05 AM CDT
It just wasn't right for the ending of something so great.
by pooroltintin
I loved the tone and the great epic battles and the earth 2 reveal. But... as a series finally is was not so much. I think all of Ron Moore's talk about how all this open ended stuff would create room for fans to "play it out in their imaginations forever" (i.e. fanfic, spin offs, cash grabs) just really feels like a dissapointing cop out for not really explaining that much. I mean, I get it, Angels and destiny and powers greater than us playing a little chess of their own, sure. But, I read one post that said, like, J.J. Abrhams take note, this is how you end a series. No. No. No. If anything, it's J.J., this is the pacing and scale that MI3 needed. But don't you dare go near my Lost waving that shit around. No. It was Epic and Cool and had many positives. It just was not a Series ending. More of a season finale, season premire. I'm sorry Ron, I do not want to write my own ending, that's your job.
-
Still no real explanation about the Lords of Kobol and whether the "jealous" Lord that led to the destruction of Kobol was the Cylon God. Some would say that the deity analogue of that god would be Satan but I'd say it would be Yehew. Our Judeo-Christian God Yeweh (or as the J-Dubs refer to as Jehovah) originally was one of several deities worshiped by the Semitic peoples. Originally, he was thought to be a trickster and he wasn't even the supreme god of that pantheon which was "El" and his goddess wife. But several thousand years later, most people only know of "Him" and the other deities of that pantheon are almost totally forgotten. Now if we were to invoke the original series then the Cylons basically were followers of Count Iblis and there you would have your Satanic stand-in. I say the original series Cylons followed Iblis because their Imperius Leaders shared his voice and it was implied that he had played a hand in their rebellion against their reptoid Cylon creators.
-
You never get to see the Earth they land on from orbit showing geography. You do see what seems to be recognizable landmarks like the brooklyn bridge, but not the geography. When Starbuck gets several visions of Earth she sees the real earth though.
-
For me were Lee discussing just doing something HAPPY and adventurous, just enjoying the second chance at a real life. You get the feeling he never rally had that on Caprica, before and you feel he EARNED that type of ending. It felt honest, and you get the feeling he is honestly humbled and grateful and will do his best to enjoy the rest of his life.
As I mentioned above, Balter realizing the life his father provided him as a farmer had value,and that he shouldn't have felt ashamed. Great acting with the look on his face. -
There wont be another cool ass space show in a long time
-
...that tonight it was obvious they had NO idea how they were going to end it, and this was the "best way" to do it. There was no "plan from the beginning" like many of you seem to think. So don't tell me I'm out of line for thinking its humourous that a bunch of BSG geeks who lived and died for every episode of this "groundbreaking" show got a stereotypical studio influenced, "straight out of the handbook" ending. Don't feel bad, Sienfeld and Sampranos did the same thing and fucked me to. Lost more than likely will as well. I was laughing at at the Hubris of mainstream entertainment media moguls,; not you...you pathetic fucks!
-
That's what I always thought.
-
Kara/Apollo - It proved that they had been an item even before the death of Apollo's brother. They had chemistry. And that night was a precursor to what would come.
ROSLIN - It proved that she could have went down a very different path after the death of her family. That last call when she said she would partake in the mayor's campaign...that was a choice that lead to her eventually getting into politics. Without that choice. No Adama for her. No president Roslin. No Earth because she would have been dead during the initial attacks.
ADAMA - Same goes for him. If he would have taken that job, he wouldn't have been on the Galactica that fateful day. He'd be dead.
TY - The weakest of the bunch I admit but technically it was part of Adama's flashback. BUT, they said they wanted to retire and just be together, living in a tent or homless. Doesn't matter. Well, they got that in the end. -
and the In-Heads of Gaius & Six were agents of the Devil? am i rite?
-
Are there clones of every fucking character? I've seen the same people die six different times
-
like can you even imagine an ending for its current characters that would be true to them, offer a sense of truth about who they were?
-
I totally agree with what you said... that look was awesome. He realizes that his father truly had value in his life and is humbled by the full reality of it.
-
get out of this TB and sign up for netflix. If you watch this backward you're going to have some serious disappointments.
of course you're probably just trolling....
-
Latest in the line of mistakes of argumentation: if you type "haters" enough, like a petulant 12-year-old, all criticisms made by said "haters" magically disappear.
-
the characters don't mean much these days. Fucking show became quantum leap all of a sudden.
-
It was embarrasing for me. And then Baltar had that sad moment at the end about his father? I was a fucking wreck after this episode.
-
...into all this. Prattling on about deep meanings and other pretentious nonsense. Ron Moore & Co simply had no idea what to do since they had written themselves into a corner. I think they put a bunch of ideas for the finale on a dartboard, then blindfolded themselves and let-fly. Some stuff worked...most did not...sadly.
-
that's a plus!
-
A harbinger is a sign of things to come. Throughout history and literature, harbingers and omens figure prominently, and are responsible for major decisions which have altered the course of both. It seems to me as though alot of us got bogged down with kara being a harbinger of death. But a harbinger is a good or bad thing and death doesnt always mean to die. Sometimes it means to come to an end. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing. All things come to an end. I for one loved the finale. I loved the show and I am going to miss it.
-
For those who didn't, I will geekily quote from Han Solo: "Well, what WOULD you like?"I wondered, too, if in-head Six and Baltar were more like fallen angels, the devil, etc. A temptress dressed in red? Didn't Baltar have some red on him, too? But I may just be overthinking it.
-
It's been very true to the characters
-
Saw that finale coming..you just can't loop, "All this has happened before..." and not expect to give away the prestige...but it was, still, some such greatness. Well done you frakkin hippie PTB and every last cast and crew who put in a day on some great TV. First Class. Top Shelf.
Flatulent Marges:
*"Don't tell her the plan.." awesome.
*Starbuck at the console entering musical notes into the FTL..Charlie in the Looking Glass. Hat tip? "It was programmed by a musician.." radical.
*Ah, the whole...Die Frau ohne Schatten..you kids dig on some Strauss now. The Opera House musical cues, motifs and scenes are remarkable.
*The sublime brilliance of self-puking EJO.
*The slight creep factor, metaphor, irony, what have ya..felt by seeing scores of thousands of white peoples (and particularly blue-eyed blonde cylons) coming to new African shores and settling down to 'civilize' the indigenous 'dark tribal' ...humanesque? folk..hmmm. "all my life I dreamed of one thing...white women!"..soul man, indeed.
*Wonderful set-up for 'Galactica 80' re-imagined..
*And the final schwerpunkt..funny to conjure that even now..this show might simultaneously inform the inspiration of some gearhead kid to build a better robot that will exterminate man and some Gaius-type kid to make of list of Robotics, AI, nanotechnology, genetic engineering, life extending.. pack alphas to put down...they will probably start with Kurzweil. Moore's the pity.
We are done. One. Maybe, two generations and it will be 'welcome to Vinge-welt'
http://tinyurl.com/vinge
"It is in your nature to destroy yourself..." - said the Hacked Cyberdyne Systems Model T101 to the boy.
BSG. What a grand, great bit of TV it was. -
been led down the prequel path by another bearded wonder.
-
My recollection was that there was a CLEAR shot of 'Earth 1' at the end of Season 3. It showed North America clearly. It was right after starbuck showed up (after being dead) in her spiffy god created pristine Viper and said she knew where earth was and was gonna take them to it. Someone verify this please.
-
theoldgunslinger: first off--is your username referring to favre? mainly-- you ask some good questions, but that in itself is the answer--the show MAKES YOU ASK THOSE QUESTIONS... that's whats so great... you can't make god a direct reveal with no mystery surrounding it... you just need to make the viewer ask those questions and give them tools to answer the questions themselves.
-
...fine. Humanity is dead. They are all Cylons...everyone. And the self aware Cylons, having become aware of the abomity that they are, realize that the only way to spare the ideal of humanity from the fleet (who mistakenly think they are really humans) is to destroy them before they stumble upon the horrible truth that they are exactly the thing that they loathe the most. Thus the Cylons become noble, sympathetic characters, and the fleet are seen as deluded fundamentalists. Everything is turned on its head, the series wraps with a twist, with a reasonable conclusion, and a philiosophical conundrum to be discussed for years to come. Everyone's happy. Not some "we never landed on the moon" 3rd grade syfy concept.
-
Hammer came off so stoooooopid: "A girl president? whee. Starbuck's a girl? whee! I also wanted a dog or a puppy in the beginning, but I lost that battle."Hatch was still doing his protesting of the offense to the fans of TOS--his one claim to fame before this: he oughta be Thanking RDM for giving his lameass another shot. He did a good job in the show, but is still petty and self-important, like he has special cred or something.We should ALL thank RDM for not stuntcasting Dirklon Facelon.
-
http://tinyurl.com/dmkbaq
-
What if Earth still had dinosaurs when they landed and the fleet got to go dinosaur hunting with vipers and raptors! Raptor versus Raptor! Admit it some of you got wood there.
-
I bet he liked it. But after reading his list of questions, I wonder if he's down with the "divine power" explains all answer.
-
You don't get it.Starbuck is Jesus. Ron Moore confirms this possibility.Not "our" Jesus, but a Messiah, who is part-divine, part-human, who's destiny it is to lead humanity to their salvation.She died. We know this is true. It was proven through her necrotic blood.She died. She was resurrected by God, or the Divine Will that guides the Universe.The In Heads are Angels, seen by a select few, but intangible.Kara, like Jesus after the resurrection, was body and spirit, tangible to everyone.After her journey complete, like Jesus, she ascended into heaven body and spirit, or the ether, or whatever is on the other side, as Anders said at the end.You just don't get it. And if you hate it, I seriously pity you.Kara had to take them to "original" Earth so they can witness the proof of the Cycle of Human-Machine Violence, so Lee would be able to come to that point to abandon it, the technology that out-races their souls.Seriously, to hate such a hopeful and wonderful and peaceful ending, that you can have science and technology, but there are still things out there that are unexplainable by our science, a Divine Presence, God or Gods, what have you, that guides us but lets us have Free Will to either make the same mistake or to finally make the right decision...... it's so hopeful, and not at all the fatalistic world-view of those like Cavil, who had no faith in a life after death, so he killed himself to avoid the pain of death, because all he had was his life. Cavil was empty and fatalistic, much as someone like me sees Richard Dawkins.To have no faith, whatever your faith is, is to have no hope. Those with faith were delivered. Those who didn't, weren't.This show outstrips ANYTHING that Star Trek ever was, because it is unafraid to admit that there is something out there greater than us, who guides us, that it isn't some alien sowing the seeds, or a cosmic coincidence, that there is a Divine Will, or Wills.This show is the greatest, because it wore it's declaration of faith squarely on it's sleeve.If you hated this ending, you are Cavil.
-
This was about on par with the last episode of "Seinfeld." Let's just run down the list: Who the fuck is Admiral Yoshi/Toshi? Why did Cavil shoot himself? What the hell happened to any sense of unity of time, place, and action during the climactic battle? If they're on Earth, where were they before? If Anders flew into the sun, does that mean Bob Dylan is one of the Final Five? They're really going to have sex with cavemen? They're really, really going to have sex with cavemen? They're really, really, really going to have sex with cavemen? When did Apollo become a hippie, bra? Where the fuck did Kara Thrace go and what was she? I mean, one thing that is definite is that the robot uprising will start in Japan. That's about the only loose end tied up. Everything else was washed away in lazy deus ex machina and the few really cool moments weren't earned or pulled off, except for Tory finally, FINALLY getting what she deserves. Bottom line: criticize him all you want, but George Lucas actually successfully completed one masterpiece before launching into an unnecessary and unwanted prequel. He didn't just phone it in and pad the thing forever. This was more along the lines of "Return of the King," which, while way too long, at least made you reflect fondly on the journey that lead you to that point. This just marginalized everything that lead up to it. It's like having a five course meal, where the first four courses are the best food you've ever tasted, each building upon the flavors of the previous dish in exciting, unexpected ways, and then for the fifth and final course, the chef comes out of the kitchen, pulls down his pants, and shits in your mouth.
-
Mar 21, 2009 12:40:40 AM CDT
All 36,000 survivors don't want indoor plumbing or penicilin?
by jacobdaly
I really liked BSG, but *geesh* that was a train wreck. --- All of the big questions? It's MAGIC! --- just weak work all around.
-
Did not need to see another drunkass drooling Olmos scene--WTF is up with so many of those lately? Once was compelling drama, twice was okay, we got it. But again and again?I agree that the abandonment of tech was too easily accepted, came off a bit too contrived. But in concept, it was fine--just not enough time in the show to build it up.Someday, after having found Hera, they are gonna dig up Adama's Raptor--a mind blower that would be!
-
Battlestar officially redeamed itself from some lackluster season 4 episodes. Seeing the characters in such a strikingly green place really blew me away.
-
I liked it. It was a satisfying ending. But it was hardly "revelatory". I had always thought that the Capricans were either our future selves or our progenitors. With the discovery of the nuked "not-our-Earth" it seemed they were OUR progeny, but that was ultimately a bait and switch. (an effective one, too!)
So Hera is "Lucy", or "Eve". And Africa was a green, lush savannah, a "garden of Eden". And Adama = Adam? (Too much?) Best part: Cavill saying "Frak!" and eating his gun. (Second best? The dead pilot firing the nukes on The Colony. THe hand of God, indeed!)
Well, I was very entertained and enlightened by the show and will miss seeing it: so say we all! -
"Baltar: God of the Forest" with Marius and Cyman.
-
The commercial for "The Plan" didn't come out of nowhere--it's been common knowledge for several months now, and has been widely discussed by all members of the cast. Just look it up online.
-
They Rhyme.
-
What do yu mean, who's Yoshi? He's been on the show for a long time now.
-
I think that became an easy fallback for the writers.
Kind of like Spock raising his eyebrow.
-
Best bad guy death ever.
-
I love how a bunch of these self-proclaimed SF fans deride the presence of spiritual themes and interpretations being utilized in the finale...SF has always been about the conjunction of technological issues and moral or spiritual conflict. Maybe those of you who actually profess to being SF "fans" should read more in the genre before criticizing what you don't understand...
-
Seems to make sense.
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Ship_of_Lights
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light -
Really, he's been around, huh? That's great, he's still a bland douchebag. Also, I forgot one of my favorite parts: Rosslyn is drugged up and barely can see straight, so of course they put her to work in the infirmary. I mean, all hands on deck but come on.
-
But the ending you describe would be ridiculous. I'm glad they went with the ending they used, and not the one you came up with.
-
Opera House-CNC, Final Five view.InHeads were Angels, just as InHead Six said openly from the beginning.Angel Six and Baltar walking among us today, at the end."you know He doesn't like to be called that..."Kara's Hera's Musical Coordinates to Earth."wherever we are, this is where we stay" and the revealGalactica's jump and and ram at the colony.Boomer's "I owe you one"Kara's Ascension. (and she DID take them to Earth, twice, in fact, as she said she would when she reappeared after Maelstrom). And her at Peace, journey ended, work done.Old Centurions--and the new centurions battling themRed stripe centurions.Ander's "see you on the other side"Baltar in battle.Baltar and CapSix's dual angel inhead moment!
-
...was the fact that I had almost no emotional response to the finale. The closest I got was when they played the old BSG theme when the ships flew into the sun.
-
He was the Comm officer on the Pegasus. He's always been on the CIC in the background since then, particularly prominent on the Gaeta Mutiny episode(s). The point of that scene though was to show just how desperate they had become. He was basically promoting the last guy even remotely capable of the job.
-
MR: We got so much mythology about Hera and how important she was. In the end, was she important just because she was a living, sentient being and not just a lab rat or an oracle?
RDM: There's all that, but she's also literally the embodiment of the human and the Cylon race and that literally becomes who we are. In the end, all of use are the children of Hera, which means we're the children of all these people we've witnessed throughout the show. Their humanity survives through us, so do the Cylons.MR: I guess maybe from an aesthetic standpoint or a journey-ending standpoint, part of me thought it would be really beautiful to end the entire series on that shot of Adama on the hillside with Laura Roslin's grave. Was that ever a thought or did you have that image of Caprica Six in Times Square and that was what you wanted?
RDM: We had that image a couple years ago. I always wanted to get to there. That image -- Times Square in the modern day -- only works in terms of servicing the Hera story. It really is about paying off Hera's story. That last scene is really all about her, why she was important, who are we, "Oh my God, we're connected to her and the Cylons," and the cycle of time and will it repeat? It seemed like that sort of grander arc in the show demanded that it also sort of be resolved and it be resolved on that note. -
This. "You know it does like to be called that.."..brilliant.
And who is gonnee make the:
"I found Husker's Viper" T-shirt..
Oh, and cheers TPTB for giving the Stu Phillips flourish. Old school, babe, old school.
Now all you university sci-kids..go 'flix the NASA documentary 'For All Mankind'..and then put down bongs both cannabis and beer for a bit so you might get to work gettin us off this frakkin rock..
..for even now..."there may yet be brothers of man who even now, fight to survive, somewhere, beyond the heavens..." -
..."cliche" in the dictionary.
-
eskimo that was the most godawful suggestion about how the ending could have been better... seriously, i would be furious if the whole 'oh no, we're ALL cylons! we need to stop all this shit' ... that's not even a big plot twist... we basically learned already that we are all cylons, and there was still tons of plot and twists to go... your idea would regress the show into a blatantly obvious and terrible story about nothing.
-
if it were me, i'd do everything the same--but i would have a shot of adama creating stonehenge with the raptor. that would have kicked ass.
-
Get bent. The problem isn't the presence of spirituality. The problem is that throughout the entire show, it was well-handled and interesting. The idea of monotheists as the bad guys and polytheists who specifically worshiped the Greek Pantheon the underdog protagonists just fighting to survive. There were always two explanations (Baltar is seeing angels or is just a schizophrenic) and it never was just a clear-cut answer. But in the finale, it was heavy-handed, vague, and dull, three adjectives I never thought I'd use to describe "BSG"
-
Its clear as day, after stabuck returns from the dead, they zoom out to a galactic viewpoint, then zoom back in to Earth, with a CLEAR shot of north america. This is right after Starbuck says that she knows where Earth is and she will take the fleet to it. I guess they forgot about that little tidbit when they wrote the finale eh? Goto youtube and look up the season 3 finale if you dont believe me.
This show wasnt even consistent from the end of one season to the next. -
...and I've never used the word fracken, on these TBs, so that's my tribute to the greatness of that finale. As I generally only care for a few episodes a season, I was totally blown away by that. One of the best finales for any show and it was worth sitting through the rest of it for that. I'm glad I was wrong in my expectations.
-
i'm not even going to waste my time arguing with you... i'm going to go watch dvred basketball and sleep easy knowing i was happy with the ending of one of my favorite shows.
-
yes, that was earth--but who's to say that just becasue there was a shot from starbuck across the galaxy to earth, they showed us the earth they would find in the finale--not the earth they found destroyed. face it: you're looking to find a plot hole that isn't there so you can pat yourself on the back for seeing something that even the heroes writers wouldn't have overlooked.
-
She DID know where Earth was.She's known where it was since she was a child.Music is mathematics realized in melody. Spacial coordinates are mathematics.She ALWAYS knew where our Earth is, the Second Earth.But they had to go to the First Earth to offer more proof of the cycle of violence so it could be broken.You just don't get it. You can't see the forest for the trees.
-
Basically, he said that Kara was the harbinger of death for bringing them to the scorched Earth, but was also the angel who brought them to the promised land (note that he DOES NOT actually call her an angel).
-
Again, that's nice. Who gives a shit? He's boring. Make Doc the Admiral or someone we actually care about. And even if it does have to Yoshi, I don't know, give him something to do or better dialogue or maybe some insulin.
-
Mar 21, 2009 1:05:21 AM CDT
If a lot of people didn't 'get it' that means the writing failed
by jacobdaly
Pretentious douches say "you didn't get it". --- Good writers create stories that people that people "get".
-
I don't think that would work because Cavill was created by the Final 5 at the end of the first 12 Colonies Cylon War nearly 50 years before the series. The fall of Kobol happened 3,000 years or so prior to the series. So unless the Final Five created Cavill in the image of the jealous Lord of Kobol, then that wouldn't work. Plus, Cavill is an atheist so if he were patterned after a Lord of Kobol that would seriously make him an idiot for being an atheist. Then there's Athena's talk about the Lords of Kobol having existed and that they were something but they weren't gods. That has not been answered at all.
-
I liked the ending, but disagree with the idea that we should all walk away fearing or even SLOWING technology. I'm not sure we can afford to slow progress at this point. We must either stop using power or optimize power generation, fast. Yes, we may be closer to a convincing humanoid with powerful A.I. and better access to deep knowledge/data than we have. It may even happen much faster than anyone assumes (except maybe Ray Kurtzweil)
Ray - http://tinyurl.com/ckh23g
... but I don't fear it.
"I may be crazy(mad?), but that doesn't mean I'm not right."
Anyone who says that should be slapped silly. THAT SAID, it was a great moment for the character. How it applies to your average delusional real life human is deeply frustrating, part of one of the only aspects of mankind that we SHOULD fear being capable of destroying us all, and for the most part one of the most horrific COP OUTS ever. "Call me crazy, but WHAT IF I'M RIGHT??!!" Anyone can say that, and do(and have), and we give said crazy people money.. power... etc.
Having seen the BSG folks talking at the UN, I was with them until the end, when they had the lady there talking about religious intolerance. Sorry, if intolerance is built into your doctrine/dogma, you don't GET TO CRY intolerance. At least not at the same level that people who do not practice such things do. That's not to say religious intolerance doesn't exist, of course it does. And it's horrible. There's not much in the world more despicable that hating/torturing/maiming/wiping out others that believe something you do not. Or something in a slightly different way, which is usually the case. But there is so much intolerance being ALLOWED in the world right now in the NAME of tolerance itself. And that's just so ridiculous, so simply and completely stupid, that many just don't notice it. Or they "feel" better about themselves, or safer, for ignoring it. Then again, as much as I respect the UN, this is the same UN that recently said in response to someone who brought up the idea that the drug war itself may be damaging lives more than drugs...
"We're not here to debate, we're here to solve the drug problem."
Real sharp. It may have been a slip, but if so it was DEEPLY Freudian.
It may seem unrelated, but at the core of BSG this whole time was the idea of righting wrongs, avoiding the BIG mistakes. The mistakes we all see as necessary in particular situations. Situations that always have one thing in common...
FEAR.
Fear of the big mysteries (technology), fear of the unknown, fear of the OTHER, fear of what we do not fully understand. Fear blinds us with truth in the guise of RESOLVE and SECURITY. Fear gives us reasons, excuses. Fear can save us, too. Sure. But it's such a fine line, the question we all must ask ourselves is... what are our prejudices? What line are we buying? Who are we listening to and if we are NOT listening to someone... why? We should be putting all this ultra-fast information in context, always.. critically. In a world where stupidity is almost rewarded, looked up to, worshiped, what hope do we have? Just yesterday, I heard a commercial on the radio for McDonalds. In it, a young woman was explaining how she was culturally sophisticated before. And since drinking McDonalds coffee instead of (I assume) Starbucks or some other specialty coffee shops, she now watches reality TV. (not documentaries, she specifies... REALITY TV) It's been going on for years. JUST do this (don't think), JUST say no to that (don't examine truths or question us, we have the answers so you can do your job and breed)... JUST do what we say.
As a whole, BSG seemed to capture all of these issues and more. Without being preachy, or stupid about it. Always leaving us sitting there questioning ourselves. Are we rooting for the right people? Was it realism, or message TV? I think if you already spend a lot of time LOOKING for messages in your entertainment, you may lump this in with other, preachy, message dramas. Then again, it might be good to ask yourself if anything that doesn't have something deeper to say about life, love, society, culture... is it worth wasting your time on? Maybe you'd be better off with a regular dosage of reality TV.
I love that this whole thing, now at it's conclusion, has sparked so much in me. Got me thinking about so many things. Even some of my own prejudices. I hope it did the same for the rest of you. And if it didn't, maybe come back and watch again in a few years. I believe there's something in there for you.
BSG?
..I owe you one... -
I'm sorry, but Richard Dawkins is CavilHe has no faith. None. He believes in nothing that cannot be explained, is willing to codify the wonderful miracle that is life as a cosmic accident. He is fatalistic, believing that what he sees is all there is.That is Cavil. There is no Divine Will, or Wills. There is no greater force guiding us. There is only what is, and to avoid a painful end, he offed himself.Because like Richard Dawkins, he has no faith, which means he has no hope.Those who don't have faith in anything beyond the mortal are fatalistic and ultimately, without hope by definition.They may be hopeful that they'll have a nice long life and all that, but in the end, to not have faith that there is something after all of this is over, after we shuffle off the mortal coil, is the most hopeless declaration a person can make.So, the teachings of Cavil, as it were, lives on in people like Richard Dawkins, who I believe would definitely eat a bullet than die a painful death because he doesn't believe in anything after death.And the teachings of Kara and Laura and even Gaius live in in those who have faith.This show is so great, the greatest there has ever been, because it's not afraid to say that.I pity those like Richard Dawkins, who live life with no hope.
-
And Vipers?
-
stop living in an atmosphere of their own farts
-
Again, let's not gloss over this point. Honestly, if the last half-hour was a Zulu style standoff where the surviving Colonial humans and cylons were outnumbered and overpowered by the indigenous primitive humans, that would have been good television.
-
Why did it lead them to shitty Earth?
-
but with a massive SUCK.
The End. -
Widespread understanding is not a good indicator of quality, and it doesn't make me or anyone else pretentious. But it does mean you have to acknowledge that there are people who just don't get much of anything, ever. And if that makes you uncomfortable, or hits home, fine. And if it makes you feel better to call others that see these truths clearly douches, good on you. Wouldn't want you to walk around all unhappy and "emo".
-
not having a plan when you start
And best retconning within a series -
The Earth-with-North-America they showed at the end of season 3 was not the planet they found in the middle of season 4. We never see any identifiable features on *that* planet (as many fans noticed at the time).
-
The "Six" got her designation as a double reference, first to the Nexus Six replicant model from *Blade Runner* and as a reference/homage to Number 6 of *The Prisoner*. The homages to *Blade Runner* have been an ongoing part of BSG and not just limited to the casting of Edward James Olmos. Unless proven wrong, the band Eve 6 has nothing to do with it; they themselves are named after the clones from *The X-Files*.
-
3 different views of Earthlike planet from space: a) at end of season 3 (we see N. America); b) in middle of season 4 (we don't see any features); c) at end of season 4 (we see Africa). (b) = 13th tribe's Earth. (a) & (c) = our Earth.
-
retcon so much? its called "adapting to what you're creating".
-
more's the pity....The Final Battle was Great, and the Final Journey was Great, and the character arcs and closure were Great.Angels walking in our present day was a terrific ending. 154,000 years (at least) of knowledge/history the Inheads have--some interesting chapters could be written, developed into mini's here and there.And, would it not be cool to see them pop in not only in The Plan, but also now and again in Caprica? They explicitly mentioned "pre-fall Caprica" there at the end :-)
-
..the Best you can FRAKKIN offer me is 42?!
Of course this has happened before, because you frakkin ripped off douglas Adams again you hack! -
"Good writers create stories that people that people "get""
..Apologies..too much to ask. You will most certainly misunderstand it in next year's class..."least useful, least advanced, or similar member of a class or set which is common to things that relate to members of that class"
You can't superior yourself out of something that is superior to yourself by decrying the lack of regression to mean of that which is superior to yourself..
Forget it..Go watch some 'Mericun Eye-dull, doode. Everything will be all-right.. -
There was only one way to go...down.
And by my count, they only answered 1 question - what the prophecy was. Sure, Sex -- erm, Six -- and Baltar both share visions, but we knew that already...what about the WHY???
God this was a creative implosion. Hera, Kara, and many, many other things left hanging because they didn't have the fuel or balls to explain.
Glad this show is over. The 4th season was truly, truly low quality TV. I give no creative props for a retarded allusion to current technology, that was the easiest way out Moore and co. couldve taken. UGH. -
What's great is that in trying to teach some great lesson about the power of faith and hope, Ronald D. Moore has actually made me lose faith. This whole time I kept telling my friends, "Nah, he'll pull it off," and it was a fair assumption, given the bar set by most of the series leading up to this. Then he screwed the pooch.
-
...gives you MASSIVE, RADICAL, UNDENIABLE THREAD CRED, and all your words are then received as gold coins manifested from pure vacuum, as manna from heavenor, you think it does, anyway....
-
MISSED OPPORTUNITY
-
Utter and complete horseshit. You, and others who believe that you have to believe certain things to have hope are some of the most deeply intolerant people living today. If anything, Cavil was more like Islam. Complete disconnect with the natural and humanistic. Even their decorative style is shapes, forms like the cylons. But never human or elegent organics. Only designs, math, patterns. Despise of one's self, one's nature being disgusting. Let's face it, you completely missed it. Same could be said about many religions. More in common with Cavil. Self-hate in the form of "sin", hatred of his given form. Some could even say he has more in common with the greatest fallen angel. God's favorite, fallen from grace. Cavil didn't reject the existence of "god", he rejected his form given to him by his creator.
Listen, I believe in none of the gods of this world, of which there are so many we can only know one thing about them. And we all know what that one thing is. But I'm not here to crap all over anyone's beliefs. I'm here to crap all over the selfish, incoherent, self-righteous nonsensical concept that people who believe in fluffy, bearded sky-daddies think they are the ONLY people in the world capable of what we've come to know of as morality and hope. I have plenty of hopes. I hope someday we can all believe what we want without the desire to make everyone else believe the same as us. I hope that someday, this eternal life and happiness we all think will be handed to us without doing anything but denying our desires and needs will come to mankind through science and technology. I have FAITH in mankind. I have hope for science. I have hope for our future. I'm so full of hope, I sometimes turn people off with my optimism. I believe that people WANT to be good and do the right thing. But what I do NOT believe is that we can count on anything but ourselves and each other. But you believe whatever you want. -
I liked the Six Baltar thing, but the shot of the commercial sucked
-
The answers to your questions all seem fairly obvious, but here they are: "Who the fuck is Admiral Yoshi/Toshi?" Hoshi's been a character on the show for some time. (And did you see the Gaeta/Hoshi/Eight webisodes?) "Why did Cavil shoot himself?" Because he'd just lost all hope for getting either resurrection or Hera. "If they're on Earth, where were they before?" – A different planet that had previously been named Earth. "If Anders flew into the sun, does that mean Bob Dylan is one of the Final Five?" no. "They're really going to have sex with cavemen?" They will teach them to speak and bathe. Later on their descendants will forget the bathing bit and have to relearn. "When did Apollo become a hippie, bra?" He did it to break the cycle, not because he was a hippie. " Where the fuck did Kara Thrace go" The other side. "and what was she?" An angel.
-
I don't know about this Kurtzweil fella..but that Ray Kurzweil fella is one smart world-ender..I keed, I keed..I only gig ya to point out, what ya wrote is some good stuff, mano. Here. You can get me back. Your brilliant to think that is were we are.
-
For daring to do something great and different.For succeeding.For giving us a show, a series, that demands attention, demands thoughtfulness, contemplation, rumination... and that invites conversation on diverse and divisive topicsFor raising the bar, setting a new standard that will not soon be met, much less surpassed.Thank you all.
-
Also, I'm drunk. That is all.
-
archaeologists finding a viper
-
"Good writers create stories that people 'get'." -- So most of the people we consider great writers today weren't great in their lifetime but became so retroactively? Or what? Great writing is not spoonfed pablum.
-
No. But certainly absorbing, fascinating and quite watchable. The ending actually was somewhat predictable, really, the Hendrix/Dylan thing sheer affectation, c'mon.
No hate here, but no delusional love either. Though I did her "What if god was one of us" on the radio today...Then again, I'm an agnostic verging on atheist many days. So if we're all Human/Cylons 150,000 years later, what we're the original Humans like genetically, not as tough? Tougher? Cold-blooded, not war (oops, wrong show...). Anyway. more power to you loyalists and the sheer naysayers, ease up on those folks. I'll side with the camp that doesn't thing this was the greatest show ever. Too often I found it bleak, without much hope, and no humor whatsoever. But that doesn't mean I didn't like a lot of it. And it'll make for a lot of interesting debates for a long time. Meanwhile, ponder this: Moore wears his hair Hey-Zeus style, don't he? -
No. But certainly absorbing, fascinating and quite watchable. The ending actually was somewhat predictable, really, the Hendrix/Dylan thing sheer affectation, c'mon.
No hate here, but no delusional love either. Though I did her "What if god was one of us" on the radio today...Then again, I'm an agnostic verging on atheist many days. So if we're all Human/Cylons 150,000 years later, what we're the original Humans like genetically, not as tough? Tougher? Cold-blooded, not war (oops, wrong show...). Anyway. more power to you loyalists and the sheer naysayers, ease up on those folks. I'll side with the camp that doesn't thing this was the greatest show ever. Too often I found it bleak, without much hope, and no humor whatsoever. But that doesn't mean I didn't like a lot of it. And it'll make for a lot of interesting debates for a long time. Meanwhile, ponder this: Moore wears his hair Hey-Zeus style, don't he? -
RDM has basically admitted he pulled the final five out of his ass.
Which we have recently learned was the whole point of the story.
And I'm supposed to ignore the significance of this.
OK, fine. But just barely. -
I think that science is more natural and selfless than religious faith. In science, we can seek eternal life, paradise. But not just for ourselves. For the future, for others. Trust me, anything we start working on now in nanotech, brain science, organ repair, cryogenics? We will not see the benefit of such things in our lifetimes. It's for our sons and daughters, and their sons and daughters. What do they have to offer? A few old books, some promises and a "trust us"? Don't misconstrue this as an attack on religious people. When you compared Cavil to a well known atheist, you needed to be taken down a notch. It's just inaccurate.
-
Tech bad, living off the land, being organic, etc. is good. Which means those of us who can't farm, built wood cabins and so on are fucked, huh?
-
First, you have to use the word retarded...
And, then, B, you use the old '3' as 'E' in your name..Ola, Pot? Kettle here.. -
Well said, in far fewer words. Thanks for your economy, something I'm painfully unfamiliar with at times.
-
LOL Your outta your frakkin mind, Im glad you found your new bible to ge next to that other work of fiction. Its a tv show you dumbass. whatever gets you through the night hehehe
-
Well ...
Considering the story didn't provide any direct answers to the questions, I'm oddly very satisfied with it.
Still kinda sifting it ...
So ... they just chill out in the forest, live out their last days, start populating slowly, giving us our world. Hera is our great(est) ancestor. Yet inevitably, our descendants start over again. I guess we're all part Cylon.
And Kara ... well, she was, what, an Angel? An illusion that believed itself real? She somehow didn't seem connected to Head Six and Head Baltar.
I suppose we're to take it that they arranged events to insure the survival of the human and cylon races. And they can see beyond time, the future, so they knew Hendrix's The Watchtower, from their future, the civilization the survivors create. Yet, they talk about the future of our Earth as if it's uncertain to them. Hm.
Perplexing, satisfying, ponderous, wonderful, frustrating ...
OK gotta watch it again. -
Really the only logical way I could've seen it ending. There being an actual god to some people (including myself) on the surface is silly, but the show has always been about that, so going in you have to expect certain fantasies. And even more so its never said what god is. He could be a highly evolved organic being (The Q from Star Trek) or he could be the metaphysical god we know from our religions. Angel Baltar even says that God doesn't like being called that. Besides the whole point of the show was like any episode of The Twilight Zone. To examine humanity through science fiction. And the final scene is a prime example of that. Oh and if you had listened to anything Moore had said about this show you would know that it was never planned out entirely. Barely any show ever is. And why does it matter?
-
I didn't get that from it. I just got that the characters felt that way and that to them it was actually the most logical thing to do. For them. They're still aware that technology will progress again, no matter their decision. I think it was just a purely selfish but logical decision. They wanted the remainder of THEIR lives to be simple, uncomplicated. I didn't take it away from the end as a message for us all. I thought it was kind of ambiguous. In a way, it almost felt like they were saying the progress is naturalistic. Instead of fighting it at every turn, step back and think about it. Sometimes the fight itself is what leads us to ruin. This has all happened before and it will happen again. Certain mistakes make certain things happen. Decay is part of the natural order and rejecting it/fighting it can be just as bad as accepting it without reservations.
-
A lot of people are bitching about the ending.
Fuck it. It was great.
Details, details, details. This show has always - always been about the characters.
Ron Moore has broken the cardinal rule of writing. He fell in love with his own characters. He put them through hell, as a good author should, but at the very last moment he felt too much love for them and gave them their happy ending.
And, because he's a frakking genius, he managed to pull it off.
The writers have put these characters through six years of hell, and at the last moment gave them peace. And, they made it work.
And the details! A few quibbles...
Baltar's not "responsible" for wiping out 99% of humanity. He was stupid, and was manipulated by the Cylons, but if it hadn't been him, it would have been someone else. No, Baltar's greatest sin was giving a fucking nuclear weapon to a Number Six (Gina) which directly led to the deaths of about 2000 survivors over New Caprica.
Galen basically damnning a civilization by freaking out and killing psycho-whore Tory. Priceless. And, to all the Cally haters - who would have thought that the murder of Cally would ultimately lead to the extinction of the "bad Cylons"? I have no doubt that the first thing the "Free Centurians" did was go back and mop up the mess of any remaining Dorals, Simons and Cavils. They know that those are the models responsible for their enslavement.
Baltar breaking down realizing that he was going to return to his farming roots - perfect.
We all know that Cavil would have gone back on his word and killed the humans eventually - that's what he does.
Classic - Cavil, the most machine-line, nihlistic souless prick - killing himself. That was profound. Although, come to think of it, perhaps Simon is more machine-like; he is logical while Cavil just hates with a passion.
Boomer, going to her death, knowing it, and facing it. Great stuff.
WTF with Kara? God knew we needed a little help. I'm cool with that.
As for the liklihood of humanity deciding to rejoin the cavemen? After seeing your entire civilization destroyed, I can think of more unusual things for them to do. Hell, there's lots of people today who reject a complicated life and decide to forsake many modern inconveniences.
Once, a long time ago, I read an interview where Ron Moore said he admired the way the Sopranos ended. Since then, I've been living in dread of an artsy-fartsy, ambiguous ending. Instead, Ron Moore gave us a happy ending. Good for him.
And finally, good for me. I had figured that if it did have a happy ending, it would end like this - I was just off a bit on the time frame. I thought the ships would be shattered and the survivors land and create ancient Greece. Didn't think they'd colonize the whole damned planet.
A worthy ending to a great show.
-
The robot Cylons left! What if they come back?
-
sort of too easily implemented within the final hour, it fit into the larger scheme/theme of BSG very wellThe conflict that forms the basis of the story has been human vs. technology all along.Some of the first scenes had to do with Adama refusing to allow newer tech on the Galactica, some of the final episodes had to do with Adama accepting "organic" tech on the Galactica, and allowing, even needing to have Anders wired in.and, the tech was still inevitable, but what we do with it is up to us.
-
People seem to think the In-Heads are flat out "ethereal" extensions of Baltar and Six. I tend to think, going with the story that this was all god's plan -- breaking the cycle once and for all that is -- the In-Heads WERE simply angels taking on forms most suited for manipulating the events that eventually lead to the cycle being broken (finding earth, cylon and human together, abandoning their technology, spawning modern man, etc). This could not have been done without Baltar and Six being manipulated or guided by their respective In-Heads. So no, In-Head Baltar does not mean real Baltar is all powerful or immortal, nor does In-Head Six represent such for real Six. They were simply angels, using their likenesses for convenience.
-
"They're really going to have sex with cavemen?" They will teach them to speak and bathe. Later on their descendants will forget the bathing bit and have to relearn."
My friend, that just sent whiskey, sexy, freedom through me nose...outstanding. just Outstanding! The only thing that would have made it more better was if you could have worked in a gratuitous, unjustified shot at the French there...C'mon, who doesn't like to take down those arrogant cheese eating surrender monkeys a peg when given the oppo..'cept maybe the French..and I am not so sure about that...still laughin -
cavil fed up with all the bullshit just says fuck this and eats his gun. lol. priceless.
-
They still flew around in Vipers and Raptors.
-
Mar 21, 2009 1:51:10 AM CDT
I agree that most episodes of the Brady Bunch were better than t
by jacobdaly
Why is Jan Brady so sad? Because everyone ignores her when Marsha is around! --- Why is Lee Adama so happy? Because his perfectly healthy father went off to die as a hermit? Hmmm... maybe because he gets to go explore new lands that he has precise surveys of? Hmmm... maybe becuase he's blissfully ignorant of the genocide Baltar committed and was never held accountable for? People are happy when they're ignorant, right? Right. --- Ok - maybe that was a bad example. how about: Why does Cavil commit suicide? Because two minutes after using a three year old as a human shield he just doesn't want to deal with the pressure anymore? Hmmm... How about after decades of doing evil and having the 'good guys' outnumbered 10 to 1 he suddenly realizes that "Hey 0 it's inconvenient if I'm still alive!". That's the ticket!! --- MAGIC! ;o)
-
Her life, death, resurrection and ascension do not fit the InHead Angel's pattern/mold.The InHead Angels appeared to the Five, were around Kobol, pre-fall Caprica, First Earth, Second Earth--150,000+ years at a minimum.Kara led a real life, suffered a real death, returned via a real resurrection, and an ascension.She is somehow different than anyone else, and probably most directly connected/related to that which hates to be called God.
-
You can't call me a hater cause I almost never post, and I generally have liked the show. But that was a lazy ending. Some nice moments, but it did not in any way live up to or resolve the story it had set up for 4 season. I think once the people who loved this finale have had time to digest it and see it again with a clear head, they are going to see how lazy the writing was. My expectations were lowered based on the last few episodes, so I am not severely disappointed, but it was mediorcre at best. Lazy, lazy plotting and writing for the last half of this season. Not clearly addressing the Kara situation was inexcusable since it was not set up as an "ambiguous" situtation. None of the setup made any sense in the long run. Having Kara just disappear was absurd. That was the biggest cheat to the audience. What happened to the cylons, both the colony and the centurians? What about the prophecies? The final five? Hera? The operahouse vision? It meant nothing. The use of "All Along the Watchtower" made NO SENSE at all. It just ended up being stupid. In head Six and Baltar? Stupid and just plain lazy. The more I really think about it, the less I liked it. Adama and Roslin was the only satisfactory ending, mostly because they are portrayed by good actors. But we still didn't need to suffer through Roslin's pointless flashbacks, especially about her date. And Lee and the pidgeons? Wtf? And even the whole bit with Kara and Zack was a waste of screen time. None of the flashbacks told us anything we didn't know about the characters. Cavil agrees to a truce after about 2 seconds of persuasion? Then the cylons freak out because Tyrol starts strangling Tori? Lame and lazy writing. It is painfully, painfully clear that Ron Moore had no clear plan for this show. Say what you want about Lost, but it is holding together and has had far fewer missteps and stalling episodes. BSG falls somewhere between Lost and Heroes, and is unfortunately slipped a few notches down towards Hereoes in my book after the finale. Still, I will end on a positive note in that I have enjoyed the ride overall and am glad for the 60% of the show that was superior to most anything else on television. It just should have been much better at the end.
-
I agree. that was awesome
-
Guy cant get a break
-
While I'm thinking about it. I've been reading these BSG talkbacks for a LONG time. (back when we were helping people find torrents, when it wasn't being aired here) And I have had a blast reading everyone's posts/articles/essays/rants/hate/love. There's a lot of substantial brainpower here and I just wanted to say a huge thanks for all the inspirational ideas, funny bits and arguments. We may not always agree, but damn. If all your brains were merged into one hybrid, you would be one unstoppable Cylon threat.
-
It made sense
-
The hope that comes from faith.You guys aren't really understanding... I'm using our concepts of religion to try and make the point, but really, it's believing in something, anything that guides us, helps us, that we're not a cosmic mistake, that this life isn't all we are, that in the end, there is something else.That is the hope that comes from Faith.Cavil and his ilk are about the fatality and hopelessness that is defined by believing in nothing beyond this life.That is what Richard Dawkins espouses. He's not just against Christianity, but any declaration of faith in any kind of Divine Will or Wills. And to make it worse, he's not respectful at all in his disagreements, so why should I be towards him? I do believe he is utterly without hope, because what he sells is the hopelessness of nothing. There is nothing after this.I am thinking that many of you who don't understand, or cannot appreciate the hopeful ending that BSG gave us, that there is a Divine Will out there willing to let us have free will, even at the cost of everything (as with Kobol, Original Earth, and the Colonies), trying to guide us to make the right decisions, as Lee came to... you are having this reaction because like Richard Dawkins, you are ultimately hopeless. You don't believe in a Divine Force or presence or God or Gods or angels or demons or anything beyond the mortal life you now live.Again... you are Cavils. You are Dawkins. And just like Dawkins, you are violently vicious in your attacks on those who choose to have hope, to have Faith, any faith, no matter the dogma. Because like Cavil, Hawkins is a total a-hole. He could just believe what he believes and be done with it, inviting a mutual respect, but instead, he attacks those with Faith.I see it as a subconscious reaction to his lack of ultimate hope. He doesn't have it, Cavil didn't have it, so they both hate those that do, and at the same time, see themselves as superior to those who do.So to the hater who thinks I'm full of shit, well, that's your opinion, but I've pretty much well-argued my position, enough so that I'm comfortable in my interpretation. You believe what you want to believe, but don't tear me down.
-
my gods I was shaking that entire two hours, and not just because I have a cold. How can anyone complain about this? You've got your space porn, your emotional character resolutions, your callbacks to the original music theme, your philosophical/theological discussions. I have to admit I was surprised. I was expecting a much darker ending. And I'm so glad there was resolution for everyone (mostly happy). But it was brilliant. I can easily say this was the best finale since Willow activated the Slayers.
-
So did they actually write the finale or just compile internet theories into a script?
-
Maybe with their limited resource it wouldn't be possible to keep the techology going for very long. Once stuff started breaking down and they lost their energy sources little by little, where to fabricate enough parts to maintain it for more than a generation or two? Actually when they were first on earth, watching the natives via binoculars, I was expecting they'd go the "Gods from Outer Space" route (cf. Nephilim). Maybe there was some of that involved but the episode didn't have time to show every detail. There would have to have been some legends of a strange, white tribe suddenly appearing out of nowhere...but then how many legends have actually survived from 150K years ago?
-
Sol Tigh's Crazy Crazy EyeBaltar's Crazy Amazing Self Preservation and Rationalization skillsStarbuck's fierce glow and fire.Doc's Crusty Curmudgeon Chain SmokingChief's sly grin and barely being able to comprehend what is happening, but hangin in anyway.The depths of the Six characters (and the shining surprise that is Tricia Helfer)and last, but Never Least, the ever luminous Grace Park, a ten out of ten playing an eight out of twelve.
-
"And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' " I think that's from the Book of Enoch or some such apocrypha.
-
I don't see why folks get so worked up about the terminology. I just interpret "it" as some sort of advanced being(s), a la "Q", that (as Arthur C. Clarke wrote years ago) is so advanced as to appear magical to us. Maybe not exactly "infinite" by the dictionary definition but far enough beyond our experience that it/they might as well be.
-
Mar 21, 2009 2:13:50 AM CDT
The ending proves at least the christian god isnt real.
by theoldgunslinger
Or if you believe it is then all the survivors and there children,( and all the animals except for 2 of each) will be wiped out by the great flood. LOL
-
I loved the remarks about soil perfect for growing food, all the game, and the land teaming with life. It seemed to be a wonderful juxtaposition to the other irradiated, ruined Earth.They HAD to go to the other Earth and then experience all that happened in between to fully grasp the concept of fresh start.Very well done IMO.
-
The Sixes, Eights and Leobens (who just vanished apparently) ... where did they go? We never see them on the surface of "Earth." Are they buried 150,000 years down in the Earth too? We never get a clear answer. I'm hoping "The Plan" elucidates some recent events from their side.
-
Equals FAIL
-
The missing link was a 6. What a disappointment. A bunch of coincidental stuff happened. Then the big bad turned out to be something of a pussy. Then Chief pulled a chief. Then some more coincidental stuff. Then all the Hobbits kissed. The end.
-
It was a warning. "This is your fate if you repeat the same mistakes".
They realized that, and that's why they flew the fleet into the sun. This really is a fresh start on a new pristine world.
Humanity has survived for 150 000 years since then. -
first, they did say where the 6s, 8s, and 2s went, but it was quick. I forgot. Anyone?
Also, calling the In-Heads demons misses the point entirely. They say at the end that they represent an outside force and are beyond good and evil (though obviously the show portrayed them both ways, even with the dressing in red and all that). But it makes sense that our notions of demons and angels might come from collective stories about these in-head characters - because really, there's a fine line between angel and demon. -
"I think that science is more natural and selfless than religious faith."
Yea, sure, selfless science..like natural selection, like Eugenics..lotsa a sacrifice there, Jesus Goddamn Christ..even Spock got it in Wrath of Khan
I have to proffer... I have felt..whoops, apologies for being metaphysical there..imagined, some ghosts on the skin on visiting Buchenwald (ironically mostly thinkers and artists) that might not agree a hundred percent with your philo police work there..
Ah, but, MAN! in all his non-divine happenstance bio-chemical demonstrated wisdom, outside of all things conceived greater than himself, proofs his compassion for the least among us. Again and Again and Again. Shall we type those things base, common and popular..is this not where you trot out holy war body counts.. I salute you survival of the fittest and to each according to some such need..Science uber alles..screw that whole divine ethic of reciprocity, Karma, Golden Rule, Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths...selfless science , indeed. I think, not to pirate and parrot Inigo Montoya, but, I think that word selfless does not mean what you think it means.
I think you meant science is more naturalistic and self-interested than religious faith. Yes, self-interested, you see because science, grand that it is, does not answer too ANY higher power other than the truth of the understood moment. But, heh, you are as MAN!, the arbiter of your own understanding. Bueno! arbite..or arbeit..heh..full circle, there ya go..man of science:
"Arbeit Macht Frie"..how very nobly human. -
didn't really add a thing to the story, in my opinion: seemed almost self-indulgent, like a chance for Mary to get some younger, healthy-looking footage... was a weak, unnecessary exposition to take her to the decision to go into politics.That, and the drunken ralphing Adama were unnecessary. Adama could have been enjoying the stars without being covered in his own vomit.... But I guess olmos has a lot of drunken drooling emmy reel material now....Those were about the only wasted moments in the finale....
-
...blended society and contributed to its advancement.
-
and I don't see what all of the "Oh no, it's God!!!!!" bitching is all about. It's a frakkin' mythology. Mythologies tend to have gods in them.
-
[salute!]
-
...but the flashbacks reminded us (and producers of fuure projects)that Mary's still got it (which she does).Good point, Chromedome.
-
Mar 21, 2009 2:30:08 AM CDT
Early thoughts of the guy who said "Fuck you, Ron Moore" last we
by happyhamster
I gotta say the finale was better than I expected. NOT as good as I was expecting at the end of the mutiny arch, 3 or 4 weeks ago. But after the total nothing eps of the past couple weeks, this was decidedly a step up. And a few parts were genuinely moving ( Roslin dying kinda got to me a bit. Kara disappearing got to me too).
Overall, this was a "solid" (not great) ending. Why? Tons of things simply make zero sense. Why the urgency in saving Hera again? Why exactly was she the key to human survival when there are tens of thousands of human beings on the ships, and hundreds of thousands on Earth? The whole rescue thing just seemed like an excuse to "go out with a bang". It felt empty since, when you really think about it, it was pointless. And the whole Kara piano notes thing was borderline dumb. The implications she was an angel screams cop out (that said, it was an almost cool cop out with her disappearing act). Lotta writer laziness/cut corners and lack of respect of the audience at the end.
OK, negativity aside (perhaps I'll add more later), this *was* at one point the best show on television. So when BSG was really rocking, it had no peer. Too bad they couldn't maintain that head of steam, but I'm grateful for the entertainment it provided and hopefully it opened people's eyes to a different way of doing sci-fi.
Anyway, I'd love to hear Herc's thoughts on the series as a whole. -
really?
Admiral for a day... LOL -
i mean come on all, RM's version is lock step with the original 1970s, "chariots of the gods " meets "star wars" pitch that started the whole "galactica" shebang.
"There are those that believe, that life here, started out there...tribes of humans, forefathers of the mayan, the toltets,the "scots" it seems...lol etc. And even today some may still be ..out there.."etc etc
i did tell you all this, right down to the 12 tribes and hera as the mother( greek anyone) of us all.
geez.. "beings of light" battling on higher levels of existance.... etc etc.
i mean geez net kiddies, just use that hulu you google tech borg teens love so much:)and learn a little about whats so clear before you blog post like little machines.;)
It was a good TV show. And a much better run/finale than Moore was allowed to do as part of the DS9 Trio.
Yeah kiddies, time to google- you tube DS9 as well from the previous century;) You'll find many of the similar ideas that should have been no surprise in what the finale would be, just wrapped into the TREK previous lore as opposed to Glen Larsens.
Overall as sophisticated as most TV writing can get. Even if its on SyFy;)
hey Moore, try a movie.
-
You are wrong about Dawkins.
You are wrong about religious faith being the only source for hope in life.
You are wrong about at least MY impression of the ending. Which I loved and would not have changed a note of.
You are wrong about atheists being without hope. I am full of hope. And for you to sit there and say otherwise, without knowing anything about me (or the others you accuse this of), says a LOT about you. You of faith, and peace, and hope. Filled with so much prejudice, you have embraced the opposite of this show's ONE real message. (and perhaps even a core message of your religion, whatever it may be) That we should do our best not to let the fear of the unknown or the other destroy us or prevent us from achieving peace. Your lack of understanding when it comes to atheism in general is BASE. One really important thing to observe in this discourse is that I have not once asked you what your religion is. If I did, I would not try to tear it down, or tell you that *I* have all the answers and you have none. I would simply say that I do not believe. When you break people down, tag them a thing like "athiest" and then attach all your pre-conceptions to them, you reduce them. You start BELIEVING that we are incapable of having things like HOPE. We are lesser in some way. Or you adapt the self-righteous way and proclaim that if we become like you, we will be complete and human. I am full of pure, real and true hope every day of my life. And I do not believe in any of the gods. There are too many, their religions are too convenient and almost virally designed to replicate and secure/defend themselves at any cost. I just don't buy it. But that doesn't make me any less human than you or any more hopeless. I am also not without faith. But I put my faith in the future of man. Even when it comes to achieving eternal life and happiness. -
The Hybrid Theory - with certain but slight modifications (i.e. Anders in the CIC - Lives!!!
-
nothing a little "retconning" couldn't cure! LOLI would still like to know which of the Five was the one D'Anna apologized to.... If it was Anders, I was not as far off as I thought!
-
Piece of shit ending.
-
There hasn't been any "oh no, it's God" hubris. In my case, I was reacting to the easy, un-thought-out comparison of Cavil and Dawkins. I really haven't seen a lot of "oh no , it's God" talk. I am perfectly comfortable and satisfied with those elements of the show, myself. And with it's ending. "God" was never defined as anything expect maybe some(one?) far advanced, distant and uncomfortable with labels. ;)
-
are you drunk-posting, kiddie?
-
Did you notice the response from the other hybrid when Anders got connected to their network? She finally saw the light in the end.
-
Absolutely the best series I have watched on television. I'm really going to miss BSG but I am excited about the new various series! Edward James Olmos for President!!!
-
she eventually turns into a giant slut and has caveman gangbangs.
-
Boxy?
-
stationed at 10 foot intervals in White House Hallways.
-
Actually, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Hmmmm....I guess that's kind of boring. I do think some others have been bitching about the potential theological elements of the show, though I'm too lazy/drunk to go back up the TB to back up that claim. :)
-
Was Fred Astaire a Cylon?
-
Well said man.
-
Mr. Scott!!! Scottie!!Did anyone actually SEE the Galactica's guns fire after the jump to the colony? Adama told em to fire until they were out of ammo, then throw rocks, but I only could see weapons firing from the colony toward Galactica....
-
Yeah, that is kinda dull. Maybe we should disagree? I'll try one. Sexier? Six or Boomer? I say Boomer. Booh-ya. Represent and such things. How you like me now?, etc.
-
and good to see her happy jump-face again
-
You are ALL frakkin unbelievably large brained cybrids. (not my term.. but I forget who came up with it) Have a great night discussing one of the best things on TV, ever.
-
So it might have been him. I'd like to think so.Remember that both Anders and Kara had wings. She was an angel and he flew Galactica into her destiny. I'd like to think Anders was SUPPOSED to be THE Hybrid of the Hybrid Theory - so its not really retconning but based on what was later revealed about the final five's destiny and purpose.
-
It was good.
-
... your reading skills are unfortunately lackingI never said atheists are not without hope, of a kind.I said they are without ultimate hope, in the end, because a belief that everything we are ends the moment we die, as Dawkins believes, is a kind of unfathomable hopelessness.As far as Dawkins goes, have you ever heard him speak? He is not only dismissive of those with Faith, he is pathologically insulting when talking about those with any kind of faith.You, like Dawkins, allow personal feeling to enter into the fray. You wanna be an atheist, fine by me. You don't have to believe in anything beyond what science can explain.I believe there are things in this world and universe that science cannot explain, and these are things guided by a Divine Purpose, that for me personally, takes the form of God, for a Muslim, takes the form of God as they see him, etc, etc.To believe that this is all we are, is the ultimate lack of hope. That in the end, your life ends, forever and ever... is a very, very fatalistic view of reality.You are welcome to it. You may see it as realistic, I see it as a lack of ultimate hope. But I do not expect to change your mind, nor do I wish to. You have free will, which I believe was Divinely Inspired, and you believe was a cosmic coincidence or accident.To each his end.But the fact remains, Richard Dawkins is not only a dismissive a-hole, he's an insulting, disparaging a-hole, because in the end, he cannot comprehend the kind of ultimate hope that comes with faith, so he props himself up as a superior human specimen against those who have faith.Bill Mahr, too. There's one thing to not have faith, there's another thing to be a total a-hole about it, which those two gentleman are.Sorry if you're so busy agreeing with their insults to see the kind of asses they are.
-
Six is my one true bitch and I'll not stand for anything else!!! YYYAAAAARRRR!!!
-
And, it doesn't make any better sense once you've figured it all out.
-
Here's URL to the review (much easier to copy and paste than the one posted above): http://tinyurl.com/c4swl5
Choice quote:
"I must go on record with my unhappiness regarding the resolution of the mystery surrounding Kara Thrace (Katee Sackhoff). She deserved better and so did we. Hera’s grand destiny, on the other hand, seems to be much ado about hooey."
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
This ending, while not horrible, does not cut it. I know a lot of people hate to hear that, but sorry guys. There have just been way too many *truely* great eps of BSG for me to honestly say that this was amongst those. -
The sound she made was absolutely otherworldly when Anders linked in. She'd never done that before!In hindsight, it was as if she was releasing power through the network back to both Anders and the Galactica (inluding the resin and all other Cylon upgrades/additions) for the final jump.
-
One person's fatalism is another person's lack of wishful thinking. For somebody who is all up-in-arms about the arrogance and dismissive attitude of Dawkins, you sure do display quite a bit of the same traits yourself.
-
and ignore the punctuation, its just like the dots on Hera's page.
all perfectly clear, and one day hopefully, many will "owe me one"
"one day when it really matters"
or not.;) -
I have just finished watching the best and worst of BSG in a two hour headfuckathon. My overall impression is that I liked it, the action was awesome, and so much emotion went into this finale. Sure, the last half hour was slow, but it was necessary to get closure on the characters.
This show, as a finished product tops Stargate on EVERY level and I see that SGU's biggest fan managed to stay up way past his bedtime to deliver some hilarious insights. Seriously, has this been done before? Has anyone actually stayed on a talkback about a show they hate for so long? This will go down in history and forever be referenced as "doing a Dioxholster". Not that anyone would want to.
Thanks Ron Moore, I don't know If I care for Caprica just yet, but I'll check it out. -
no, I think you're wrong about Roslin's flashbacks. This is probably one of the problems with dividing up the three hours. I think this is clearly Roslin deciding what she's going to do with her life in the face of her family's death. She can have embarrassing meaningless hookups with former students or she can make a decision to go into politics, which leads her to Galactica. The reason for all the flashbacks is that each person makes a choice about what they want to do, who they want to be. I'm actually relieved that we didn't find out that the drunk driver was Cavil or Lee, or any of the other theories. There was no manipulation of the main characters. They each made their own decisions based on free will.
-
... again, proof that he IS such an a-hole, is in the pudding of South Park.Matt and Trey went after Dawkins not because he's an atheist, but because he's a complete douche bag about it, much in the same way they went after Par Robertson.So I'm sorry, Dawkins didn't pass the South Park test, so you are quite wrong about his noble intentions. He's a douche bag a-hole, all praise Matt and Trey.
-
One thing I wanted to address. I think the finale made clear that polytheism and monotheism, in the end, don't matter - they're human constructs to explain the divine. And the inheads' conversation even acknowledges the compatibility of evolution with 'divine plan.' Nowhere in the finale was dogma an issue, nothing about 'follow us or go to hell' - people can choose to have faith or not. Like Shepard Book says in Serenity, 'why do you assume that when I mention faith, I'm talking about God' - have faith in something. Even if you're atheist - faith in the human race, perhaps. Or the power of the mind, or the heart. I am convinced that you can be atheist and still be absolutely spiritual. Especially if you believe in the connections between people.
-
You're giving Ron Moore and company WAAAAY too much credit by spending this much energy discussing (and just annoying the rest of us). It was all a big fat red herring.
Please give it a rest. -
... I am dismissive of Dawkins because he is dismissive of me.I am trying to say to gotlik that I'm not trying to be dismissive of him and his beliefs, just relaying how someone like me who has faith interprets the idea that there is nothing beyond this life, that it all ends when we die.For me, that interpretation is a lack of finality hope. Hope in faith rewarded, hope in faith of a life beyond the mortal coil.I see that interpretation in the whole series of BSG... those with faith, either in Gods or One God, it ultimately didn't matter, were rewarded. The very fact that they had faith and ultimate hope was what was important.Again, someone like me sees a kind of awful fatalistic view of the world in the belief that their is nothing beyond what we can measure or weigh with science. Science doesn't account for beauty, or miracles, or Divine Presence. Science is real, but it cannot account for everything, and just as Faith without science is a kind of unbalance, science without Faith is as well, and that's what I'm seeing in the message of all four seasons of Galactica. The over-arching theme as it were.Guys like Dawkins and Mahr are total a-holes. I'm not saying gotlik is, I don't know him from Adam(a).Even in trying to explain a viewpoint, things are misunderstood, and it's unfortunate. But I do, 100% stand behind Matt and Trey in our shared view of Richard Dawkins, a-hole and douche bag. Haha.
-
Sorry , for some reason I kept missing all your posts. See, you have a point there. Of course science is going to have some areas of ethical TRAGEDY. I'm just saying that it's less selfish in concept. In a religious sense, we are all expected to have faith that there IS a thing for US when it's all over. With science, within the right boundaries, we are expected to have faith that WE will achieve the very same things someday. He hope. But not for US. For the future. Do you see the difference there? I mean, I'll be the first to agree with how you have criticized science/technology above. But what I was getting at was that religion is for US NOW. Science is a less selfish hope and faith for the other and for the future. All things taken to their darkest extreme will result in suffering and death. Science just gives me hope that someday, we will achieve the "magic" of eternal life and paradise-like happiness.
-
No valuable lessons are learned and passed down through the generations. The cycle of violence will simply continue like it has throughout our history. (They only imply that god lets it continue to happen and the horrible struggle of humans is entertaining for him(and you) to watch.)
-
Get to Earth and, less than a minute later, the show ends. At least Galactica took the time to let them deal with what they found, and give all of the major players some closure.
-
Just didn't think they added 'value' to the show. We already knew she went into politics, and a one night stand with a former student was just a silly way to spend time showing us her decision "moment" that we really didn't need to see.Conspiracy Theorists will still see the hand of Cavill or some such in the car accident, and who knows what "The Plan" will do with that, anyway. I think it was a vanity segment, to put a little bit of Milfy Mary back on the screen in the final episode.take that out, replace it with a little more on Kara's end-story, would have been an even better way to go.
-
I think you hit my problems, point-for-point. Really the only truly satisfying part of the ending was General Adama/Roslin resolution. The rest actually kinda sucked a bit. Like you, the more I think about it, the lower my opinion of the finale drops(not exactly high to begin with).
But also like you, I appreciate the BSG high points. It was an amazing show when it was going on all cylinders. -
...really super advanced technology dating back to Kobol IMHO.
-
Let this talkback be a tribute to this great show :)
-
I really hope that they explore the history of Kobol in the new Caprica series.
-
I, as well as others (Dawkins, Maher, whoever) are so often misinterpreted. OR they rely their heroes to form their opinions for them based on bad information. And expert40? My best suggestion if you want to see how Trey and Matt (as much as I admire them) and you are wrong about Dawkins, would be to actually read his words for yourself. Or not. But don't pretend to be informed about him without actually reading his words. Have an opinion about him, about me, whoever you want. But it's clearly not informed. I think what turns people off about Dawkins is that he comes at his ideas and other's ideas with a little bit of fury and humour. And he is unapologetic in his view of what is real and what is not. But if you think the man is without hope, without faith in man, you're just not familiar with him.
Just to note... I thought that episode of South Park was hilarious. Spot on with the disagreeing athiests battling it out against each other. -
Nope, it's not from the Book of Enoch, it's from frakkin' Genesis. (Gen. 6:1-4.)
-
And imagine trying to explain to people who had never seen BSG, just what Caprica is?
"Uh, it's a show set a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" -
The jump to Earth was likely possible because of the Black Hole and the naked singularity which means the Colony was placed at that location in the BSG universe to allow the fleet to make their way to the "new" Earth.Just a thought.
-
is tyranny or "might makes right" and that's something I personally am fighting against because that's a crummy attitude for an individual, religion or government. What the heck is this show pushing?
-
geez.
listen to uncle Baltar... who gets to write the story:)
Its not about any "god" /or no "God"..
Its about "us" and do we choose to "live in HOPE or FEAR".. we decide to break the cycle or not....
Cavill even got it:)
"damn hippies"..lol EZ rider.. -
Okay, gotta leave for real now. Can't be late for work. Everyone. And I do mean EVERYONE. Have a great talkback.
-
What happened to Starbuck - does that remind anyone of what happened to Cordelia in Angel.
-
It would be cool if some of the Kobol mysteries are explored, but I'd be happy if TPTB saved Kobol for another, better spin off that deals with the war on Kobol or the 13th tribes exodus/journey to the other Earth.
-
...In-Head Six (and Shelly Godfrey)has done throughout the series.
-
The InHead Chronicles: Kobol The InHead Chronicles: The Twelve TribesThe InHead Chronicles: The Thirteenth Tribe The InHead Chronicles: Earth 1 (Earf) The InHead Chronicles: Caprica The InHead Chronicles: Cylon Homeworld The InHead Chronicles: Earth 2
-
... it's not about religion, it's about faith in the divine, whatever form that takes for you, and the hope that comes from that faith.It's not about dogma, or my religion is better than yours, or my God is better than your Gods. Just faith.Those who had faith in the Divine, the Rebel Cylons and the Colonials, were delivered unto salvation.Those without faith, like Cavil, groped for "resurrection" and immortality, because they did not believe in a life after this mortal life.Kara's resurrection and then bodily ascension was proof, in the BSG universe, about the hope of faith rewarded.It's not about religion, it's about FAITH.Think what Rufus, the 13th disciple said in dogma, and you'll get the idea better, maybe.
-
Verdict... the most overly hyped show ever.
-
Just take a look at all the interpretations floating around, each insisting they're the correct one. This wasn't artful ambiguity. This was: Throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. It will all stick because shit is sticky. "What were you writing about all along?" "Uh, whatever, what do you think we were writing about, again? Yeah, you're right!"
-
that the old theory of "Earth" being revealed as the home of humanity, and Kobol being a colony would lead Galactica coming into contact with perhaps a more evolved human race that points out that the survivors are all "Cylon". But this ending will do :)
-
In Search of another Naked SingularityThe Centurions and their BasestarThe Return of the Galactica, Adama and Crew
-
Mar 21, 2009 3:46:36 AM CDT
"biggest travesty of the show that Tory was going to get away wi
by shan
"Biggest travesty of the show that Tory was going to get away with Murder."
No, that would be Baltar getting away with giving away the nuke that blew up Cloud 9 and killed several thousands. What else did he think someone was going to do with a nuclear bomb? -
(to paraphrase) ... any science sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from science. Does that help with what the In Head people were/could have been?
-
... I'm sorry, what you see as humor, I see as insulting. Again, you infer I'm saying without any kind of hope, which I'm not, I'm saying being without the ultimate hope, the end hope, not ultimate as in "best," but ultimate as in last, that in the end, we're more than this life and will live on, on the other side, as Sam said.Again, I've read Dawkins' words, and my best friend who's an atheist, went to a lecture Dawkins gave at the U of M a little while ago and told me what and how he said the things he said.I'm sorry, but I can recognize a-holes on both sides of the issue, like with Pat Robertson. And yes, Mahr and Dawkins are a-holes on their side of the issue. You don't seem to be, and for that I respect you, but they are, so I don't.And again, I love the dichotomy that comes from having Faith in a Creator who has also given us Free Will. Who guides us, not uses us like puppets. That is what Moore is putting forth. The Divine Presence that sent forth the in-head Baltar and Six, the angels, wants humanity and machine both to come together and stop the cycle of violence, but we have to do so on our own, make the right decisions that will lead us to that point.Again, I put forth that the finale works because it shows us how far humanity has come through faith. The 13th Tribe only lasted 1000 years before destroying themselves, because they WERE technology who let their science outrace their souls. The 12 Colonies lasted 2000 years after leaving Kobol because they let their technology outrace their souls, let their science replace their faith... again, no BALANCE.But the remnant of humanity and rebel cylons that found Second Earth have lasted for 150,000 years! And only now are getting to the place where we are today, letting science and technology outrace our souls, replacing our faith in the Divine fall away and be replaced by science, leaving us with no BALANCE.It doesn't matter if it's Allah, or God, or Vishnu, or simply asking the moral question of "Why should we invent AI, or why should we allow ourselves to perform cloning?" What is the purpose? Our own selfish ends? That is the path that starts the cycle all over again.Faith keeps science in check, for the betterment of humanity. To create life outside of procreation is stepping onto a divine stage where we have no place because we cannot be trusted not to use the life we create for our own selfish purposes.That's the message of the show. That's what Lee said to his father at the end. Letting science supplant faith 100%, leaving no balance between technology and soul has been the downfall of the human race three separate times.How will we proceed?
-
Here's a hint: If you want people to take your religious babble seriously, don't use Kevin Smith or the creators of "South Park" as your go-to guys.
-
http://tinyurl.com/dncd72
Also, look up the Ship of Lights and Beings of Light on battlestarwiki.org -
I thought it was magic...
-
This show is lame and boring and Ron Moore is a hack...
...period. -
I am so glad that this show is over. For five years, I have been wrestling with what I expected based on the great mini-series that started the show---and the constant depression associated with that the show became.
Now, it is over--and I no longer have to think about it, or the incredibly lazy choice of making every plot hole wrap up "by Miracle". Talk about a literal Deus ex machina!
I haven't been this annoyed with a "science fiction" project since SIGNS and the last episode of QUANTUM LEAP. It is all just magical religious/mythological fantasy bullshit wrapped up in Science Fiction clothing.
Frak it. -
wtf? were they in-heads? whos head were they in? were they real? how did they live that long to be real?
i wouldve bought that scene if 6 was talking to a stranger about getting security codes. -
I thought I saw word that the DVD will have a Director's Cut. Is it known how much footage is added?
The ending - you know, there's this bleek aspect to them scattering across the globe. So what, Lee just wanders off, dies alone somewhere, never sees his father again. Why not live with him in his cabin and explore around there? If they plan to introduce language and their better selves to the indiginous humans, shouldn't the central group stay together, organize?
-
I'm not sure of the exact quote, but basically "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it..." ...but occasionally luck beats out the odds and things might not go according to math. The whole 'angel' point of optimism was that maybe, just maybe, this round (OUR round) of humanity won't be smart enough to create another breed of cylon, and the war between man and machine will finally end. I thought that was a great 'leap of faith'- especially with the smug remarks from the 'angels', as if- IF this were to happen all again, they'd be willing to weather the storm, watch it all build up and break down again, then observe the NEXT set of humanity that took the stage. It was both a bleak, yet hopeful, ending, and I think that's what made the entire series worthwhile for me. 4 stars out of 5.
-
S-RORasch, don't think about too much. Your head will hurt ...
-
Far beyond the world I've known, far beyond my time. What am I? Who am I? What will I be? Where am I going and what will I see? Searching my mind for some truth to reveal. What thoughts are fantasy, what memories real? Long before this life of mine, long before this time? What was there, who cared to make it begin? Is it forever or will it all end? Searching my past for the things that I've see. Is it my life or just something I dreamed...
-
instead of the flashbacks, how about flash-fowards of each of the characters right before they die in the future. 'Six Feet Under' did it nicely.
-
and torrent is as slow as frak...
but how did the rest of the fleet find galactica/earth?
-
So, Hera was special, very special.
In the epilogue, 150,000 years later, Hera's discovered as our forebearer. That she's special, essential, implies that the genetic make up of the others didn't survive, couldn't, that it needed to be Hera, her hybrid cellular make up, whatever.
If any of the crew could create life to populate the planet, then why would Hera be so essential? So her DNA creates our world. But the others, who got here there, just perish, long buried, though we're to understand they would make contact with the indigineous humans, teach them language, jump start their evolution. So they are our prehistory aliens that accelerate us, all that fascinating stuff.
-
The explanation was that while Galactica was stuck at New Earth they were able to have a raptor jump to the rendevous point and hook up with the fleet.
-
ok I get it now.
-
you are an annoying asshole. you know what you've earned. each and every crappy episode of stargate universe i'm going to come on the talkback and paste bullshit $$$$BSG crap just like you did to this BSG one. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. idiot.
-
I have to say, Baltar got many a good line, both dramatic and funny. His reaction to the news that God's plan is never complete... awesome. But my favorite line that HAD to be on purpose is when he tells Caprica Six in the flashback, "If my bosses knew I was doing this they'd cut my head off." Awesome. A comment in a flashback to the moment Baltar betrays humanity that references back to the very very first incarnation of Galactica - the feature film - and Baltars fate for having betrayed humanity. Awesome.
-
Just watched the episode, and man, it seriously got me wondering...especially since the original series by Glenn Larson was based heavily on his Mormon beliefs (another controversial belief system).
Bear in mind I don't particularly begrudge that lot and their beliefs (I've even stuck up for Tom Cruise here and there), just curious if anyone else caught an L. Ron Hubbard "Space Opera" vibe... -
Is frakking HIlarious.
-
Let the haters hate. I have been fully engrossed with this series from the beginning, and I can say that I am completely satisfied with the ending. I was initially feeling like I had a bad taste in my mouth with the whole added ended in present day, but then the magnitude of the importance that Hera held set in. Could have done without Roslin's flashback, but that's cool-all part of her journey. When the prophecy (in my mind) was fulfilled in that she did live to see HER promised land of her and Adama's dream cabin in the valley, I have admit I got a little emotional. In my mind the best TV series ever made.
-
Mar 21, 2009 5:59:08 AM CDT
The In-Heads (Six, Baltar and Starbuck) were Angels of God...
by prof. pop-cult
Yes, that's what they were, everybody. (And Starbuck was in-head to EVERYBODY.) This is the one supernatural (or should that be "spiritual-natural"?) element that I'll let Ron Moore have. I see the in-head characters, and the Opera House, as Moore's homage/reference to the Ship of Lights from the original series.So, if you're willing to accept the existence of God (who we learn doesn't like to be called that) within the context of this series, then this finale did in fact explain everything. I'm satisfied, and impressed by Moore.
-
Adama places Earth(2) one million lightyears from Caprica. The end of Season 3 shows Earth(2) within our/Caprica's galaxy. Our galaxy is about 75,000 lightyears in length.
That's the bitch with writing science-fiction, all that damn science you have to deal with. -
(...And it may actually be closer to some Hindu concepts, so no big woof)
Really didn't dig Apollo's assertion that "We allowed our brains to get ahead of our hearts".
This was after Tyrol wrecked the armistice with Cavil's Cylons by lunging at Tory...talk about putting your "heart" ahead of your "brain".
Last I checked, impulsiveness, hunches and skewed beliefs (hearts) have been trumping rationality, reason and considered decision-making (brains) for most of mankind's violent existence...
Correct me if I got his quote wrong... -
Starbuck was not in everybody's head. I mean... she was on par with the "in head" angels but she and the fighter she came back in had physical form. To go extra geeky... like when Cordelia came back from the grave on Angel just long enough to do finish what she needed to finish. Splitting hairs really but...
-
So the real Kara Thrayce died in "Maelstrom" and the Kara who reappeared at Season Three's conclusion was a ghost all along.
That's how I interpreted her final scene with Lee? Any thoughts? -
Season 3 was a bust, retconning didn't stop even in the finale.
Yes the battle was good, old school cylons were always welcome, but remember razor when Sharon expressed surprise because those models had been decommissioned long ago, yet they're there all the time.
It was an unsatisfying end to an unsatisfying 3rd season.
Return of the King ending... sappy and silly.
I just hate we didn't get our centurion civil war. Or a true resolution of so many plot points.
ah well...
-
I think the finale was a strong sendoff overall. Although I thought the ending was a bit long and could have done without the overlong explanations and exposition.
My main complaint with this show has been its proclivity to preach, and the very ending of the finale was simply that. and it wasn't very subtle or creative about it either.
I don't really understand the importance of Hera to the human race. Clearly I missed something important there.
I also have a hard time believing the idea that everyone would just give up everything they have to live on the land.
-
... was essentially Eve to our version of the human race. Not sure who Adam was but my guess would be that punk kid from down the street who probably knocked her up. Or a calculator. Kind of a toss up.
-
I forgot that raptors can still jump, although battlestar no longer could...
I think couple of repeated viewings of this 2 hours will be required. -
Ever think it was maybe used as an expression? And how many light years of travel does it take to visit the 100-400 billion stars in our one galaxy alone? The science of Galactica was fine...
-
First off, for a show that basically "made it up as it went along," this was about as strong and satisfying a finale as could have been hoped for. And I'm just talking story here. The actual ART of the editing, music, acting, cinematography, etc., etc., was at the absolute top of its game and has ALWAYS been incredibly strong.
My favorite moment was when Chief went ape-shit on Tory and destroyed the truce, and the antics that ensued. Incredible and unexpected, bucking so many cliches that I thought they were about to fall into.
But here are some of my issues. The in-head explanations were rather lame, really. So they're angels, or "messengers" of "God." Seems to simple an explanation without FURTHER explanation of this "God" or force that they represent.
And btw, I don't believe for a second that Kara was an 'in-head to everyone.' That strikes me as re-gods-damn-dickulous. She was absolutely real and flesh. She was resurrected by this unseen force and returned to finish her "mission." I actually like the feeling that her disappearance at the end left me with. Not fully answering what happened with her actually works well, I think.
My other main issue was Adama just checking out on his son and his people. We're to infer that he left for good, I suppose, right? Became a hermit with a cabin and a grave to keep him company? I understand his love for Roslin was strong, but strong enough to make him leave his ONLY SON forever with a very brief goodbye? I have to imagine that he would eventually return, but the whole "he's not coming back" line refutes that. That is just not buyable. Go away for awhile to grieve, sure, but to just suddenly cut out on the last family he has or ever will have because the woman he's been in love with for just a couple years has died?
Also would've liked to have seen some sort of goodbye between him and Saul. Their relationship was just too strong to have them simply go their separate ways without so much as a word to each other.
Still, it was a beautifully put together piece of television. It elevated the art form, and it was like nothing I've ever seen before. I'll be thinking about it all weekend, I'm sure, and will probably go back to the beginning and watch it all over. What a journey it's been.
-
Death in Taro Cards Means Change.. so Kara Was Actually the Harbinger of Change. There is your answer. On a side note, the action in this episode was great. But I'm still shocked that they went with the whole... we are all hybrids storyline. Not sure how I feel about it though. I think it made no fucking sense to give up the technology like that and I doubt many would.
-
While we didn't get any details about the jealous god etc., I think we understand now what happened on Kobol: the colonists were survivors of yet another human/cylon conflict. At least, that's what the comment at the end suggested to me.
-
...Lee finally completed his transformation into Ace Rimmer.
-
she was obviously based on the Towelie template. "Wont you take me to....Funky Town?" Get that code in Starbuck! And don't forget to bring a towel! In all seriousness, good ending.
-
I think those saying that are right. Kara was an Angel, but the Six and Baltar were Demons working for "it" who doesn't like to be called God. I bet that was the big problem that happened on Kobol.
-
It was our Earth that we saw first. The post armageddon 'earth' was a different planet.
-
...the more I think the "in heads" aspect will be touched upon in "Caprica".
And Torrent sucks. Try an alternative. -
Which really explains a lot when you think about it. I loved the ending! It was perfectly satisfying to me. The mystical stuff is far better left open to interpretation-- my take on it as an atheist is that the In-Heads are part of a super evolved lifeform that created humanity. And my theory is as good as anyone else's! Who cares? It was a lovely send off for all those great characters.
-
BitTorrent rules, I got the episode from MiniNova using BitTorrent in Beautiful HD... no problem.
The first Earth was not our Earth.. that was the 13th Colonies Earth. Earth II if you will... is ours. -
In-Head Leoben led Kara to Earth. In-Heads told the Final Five that Earth was going to be destroyed.
While they're agents of a higher power, I think we have to assume the power is essentially neutral (otherwise having intervened some, could've intervened a lot more -- although "when you've done something right, people aren't sure you've done anything at all"), but is biased towards existence. -
Great. Now write that into a two hour television event that isn't a huge the sci-fi equivalent of the last episode of "Seinfeld." Also, fuck Yoshi.
-
The in-heads weren't demons if you assume that there is a consistent thematic message to the writing. It wouldn't make sense. You give Baltar a huge moment where for once he's not bullsh*tting and says, look, there is a higher power at work trying to lead us to a destiny, all the good and evil stuff comes from US, lets try something better. Then on top of that they put an exclamation point on that idea. Baltar gets everyone to work together and it all falls apart because evil deeds by one character cause another character to bad deeds of his own and it all goes to hell. Not because of anything the in-heads did but out of the human (and cylon) condition. So they say evil comes from us, they show it come from us... why would they then say, "the characters trying to foster peace and lead everyone to a new home are demons"? It doesn't track. I think the, "He doesn't like to be called God" thing was just a hedge, pulling it back just slightly back from full religion. Like how on Quantum Leap as much as possible they avoided full on saying, "God is leaping Sam around." Even when they would pretty much say it they'd still just point heavenward and say "him", not usually God. Futurama also did an episode with an all-powerful being who could in a way be considered God but who was framed so that he could also just being a being so powerful he could be considered "God". I think that was just to give those wanting sci-fi not faith something to hang their hat on.
-
Only Head Baltar and Six were Demons. Kara and the other In Heads that warned the 5 were Angels.
-
think about it...
-
Saying something like it's profound while fake Celtic music plays in the background doesn't magically make it so. And doing that over and over and over again for like a full half-hour diminishes the impact greatly.
-
I was never a fan, but my wife had a great time at a "Finale Party" last night. I get it : if sci fi can posit the existence of hyperspace travel or laser beams then why can't it posit the existence of a god / gods or spirituality? I get it, I just don't like it. Yes I am an atheist and prefer my sci fi more on the sci side, is all.
PS: we are all allowed to believe what we choose but some of you god-believers are pretty dang intolerant. If you want to believe in Jesus the Magic Man why don't you try acting a bit more like he allegedly acted? Just a thought.
Now somebody tell me if Gil Gerard is pushing for a new Buck Rogers? -
Then, you know what, good for you. "Caprica" looks every bit as good as this melodramatic, syrupy garbage and "The Plan" really looks like it's half re-edited footage from the run of the series repackaged so they could squeeze one last dime out of it (sort of like that Timon and Pumbah movie, except that one was at least kind of funny). So have fun keeping those blinders on and continuing to be used by creators who don't respect you. I personally have better things to do with my time, but, you, you go on ahead. Have a gay old time, retards.
-
better things to do with your time, like watch it all, and then come here and bitch about it. hahah. fuckin loser.
-
I just watched it, I stayed away from the talkbacks, and I'm shocked by the negative feedback. They've wrapped everything up. You wanted some fucking alien reveal himself as God, pulling the strings, or what? I was entertained, and I got a satisfying ending to a show that's ran it's course. (I admit, I skipped a big part of the last season, but came back for the endgame.) I really don't know what you guys expected. Most satisfying finale to a show i saw. (DS9 loses for the lame showdown with Dukat, Angel loses for the lame death of Wesley)
-
Again, the entire point was that the evil that men (or robots) do is from THEM not from some evil devil figure. We create the evil all on our own. Why would demons help inspire the show's "bad guy" to give an empassioned plea for peace? And if they didn't inspire it, why when he was making that plea would they watch with smiling approval? Again, it doesn't track.
-
through the episode.
-
It shows too since the finale was very sloppy . Didn't Moore himself acknowlege they they didnt know how it was going to end and that was during season 3 ? The Opera scene is evidence of this . All those Opera dreams were being built up to have some importance and in the end all that happens was that Baltar and Six took Hera into the CIC. That was weak. I dont buy the humans, just giving up all their technology. Why would the Centurions not want to stay on earth as well? What happens to Adm. Adama, does he jump off the cliff? Just stays there to live by himself?
-
At last count, there was a minimum of 4-5 baseships still out there. Are we to assume they died out looking for Earth? Did they destroy themselves? What about the centurions on those baseships?
-
Read the links updated in the original post. Ron Moore talks about the in-heads a bit and what they kind of assume that they are.
-
It's official now, Ron Moore owns you -all-. Biggest series finale ever made. And the last scenes were just plain sweet.
-
...there's a deleted scene in which he returns to Lee. Poor bastard Lee, he probably thought he was going to live out his days frakkin Starbuck and then she bailed on him too.
The opera scene was pretty much open ended to begin with, but it made sense. The CIC was the stage for which Humanity's future was decided. -
Pay attention to Baltar's speech to Cavil. He referred to God as a force of nature. It is beyond good and evil and does not take sides. That is what nature itself is, and when you hear of people like Einstein and Stephen Hawking talking about touching the face of god, they're not talking about "the one true God", they're talking about nature and the way of the Universe itself. So whoever "it" is that in-head Baltar and Six are working for is not the Anthropomorphic god all you suckers worship. So stop trying to bring your religious garbage into this and stop comparing Richard Dawkins to Cavil you fucking stupid idiots!
-
Nice Futurama reference.
-
Scotch, cigars and refrigeration too."Tech is bad" ending sucked. Bucky got fucked, as well as Lee. This show never recovered from the final five.BTW, toaster on toaster violence is hilarious.
-
That's Catholicism. If that's what Moore was going for, I don't think Super-Mormon BSG originator Glenn Larson is gonna be too happy.
-
That's the show in a nutshell. From beginning to end. If you've ever read it the whole thing is Milton's Paradise Lost.
-
There was speculation if Ronald Moore would ever reference the Ship of Light from the original series. But it looks like the references to this spiritual element was right in our face all along -- the Opera House and the in-head characters.And I think Ron Moore's take is that the in-heads can be either demonic or angelic -- it's a yin-yang thing.As for the argument that Starbuck was not an in-head: The theory works so long as we accept that everyone (human and Cylon skinjob) was affected... and, yes, that means her Viper, too, was "in-head" to everyone. She and her shiny new Viper never physically existed. (And to say that instruments used to examine the Viper said it was "there", you have to remember that a person has to be using and reading said instrument.) Finally, we have been shown a few brief moments throughout the series where the in-heads physically interacted with people -- like the time when In-Head Six lifted up Baltar.
-
It needs to be bumped for at least as long as the Watchmen talkback.
Go on Merrick! -
The one eyed Norse god. I think some of the Galactica beings live on to become the gods of our mythology. And they're still around.
-
go watch 'war of the gods' and "experiment in terra' of the original bsg. they are angels, or advanced beings. my only complaint about last nights show was that this was not directly shown.
for all the bitching about the original series...many of the concepts from that series were used here. but in a way that is not so obvious...both series were great. i finally feel like i watched the finale ive waited decades for -
'cause if anyone on the show loved EVERYONE, it was her. She would get on her back quicker than a turtle on an incline.
-
I've loved this show since the beginning and even when there were moments I thought were weaker than others, I went with it because I knew the show would always pick up. But this time it's not the case. The action in the first half was exciting but I never felt as involved as I did even for "The Oath" not too long ago. Once it got to our Earth... Maybe it's because I considered the possibility that the nuked Earth was not "our" Earth and felt that would be a cop out in the making... The impact of the nuked Earth twist feels cheapened. And finding our Earth needed to work for the finale to work. Instead I watched the final half hour waiting for some kind of twist or pay off... the epilogue provided one to an extent but it was not an unexpected one, given the extended set up. The flashbacks did not work for me either. I'm not going to insult those who loved the finale. I wish I loved it... I'm envious. The ones who loved the finale are lucky...
-
I watch BSG I want to play the fuck out of Mass Effect.
-
Never gained any reference from the new show? Sweet.
I might go and watch the old BSG now, just to put this into perpective. -
If you read this...sorry I didn't see your original post first. Don't know if it was on purpose or if it meant anything or not, but it sounded like Jerry Goldsmith to me!
-
My frakking dvr didn't record it! Frakking Comcast! Does anyone know if Sci-Fi will be showing it again? Or it will be online anywhere?
-
The finale was pretty well done in my opinion and seemed to tie everything up reasonably well - though I did get a "LOTR multiple endings" vibe at the end, and that last exchange with Baltar and Caprica Six screamed self-indulgence from Ron Moore (the cameo was cool though!)
The highlight of the show for me will always be the "Pegasus" story arc in the second series! -
damn that was amazing, i've been waiting years for that and it didnt disappoint, its nice to see a show come to its natural conclusion without being dragged out for too long (hmm hmm Lost) kudos to moore and team, man tears were rolling down my cheeks
-
The usual AICN talkback bickerfest between Lost and BSG fans is dumb as fuck... but I'll say Lost has been more consistently on the ball though at their high points I have loved both equally. I sure as hell hope the finale of Lost works for me better than this one.
-
I think they’re both. We never try to name exactly what the “Head” characters are—we called them “Head Baltar” and “Head Six” all throughout the show, internally. We never really looked at them as angels or demons because they seemed to periodically say evil things and good things, they tended to save people and they tended to damn people. There was this sense that they worked in service of something else. You could say “a higher power” or you could say “another power,” [but] they were in service to something else that was guiding and helping, sometimes obstructing, and sometimes tempting the people on the show. The idea at the very end was that whatever they are in service to continues and is eternal and is always around. And they too are still around…and with all of us who are the children of Hera. They continue to walk among us and watch, and at some point they may or may not intercede at a key moment.
-
The best TV finale I've ever seen. Possibly a better send-off than the show deserved. Wrapped up everything perfectly. I don't know how anyone could dislike it.
-
how Lost at this point has an endgame and / or could possibly have some kind of emotional resonance for the main primary characters we began the show with. and now the Lost writers are probably going to be like "fuck, BSG did the there was some kind of higher power involved before we could, now what?:"
-
'I thought I'd leave it ambiguous' Bullshit, you couldnt write yourself out of the crap. The head balter and six i can buy being angelic, part of the cycle and faith. But to not even attempt to explain kara thrace and her shiny viper, the music or how the 5 all survived the destruction of the colonies is just utterly weak and ruined it all for me. Dissapointed. Season 1-2 will remain some of the best tv ever, seasons 3-4 will be forever pointless crap, lets make it all much grander!! but not even know why or how. As a comment a little bit up said, I'm envious of those who will love it but it was all a bit hollow for me
-
This episode was spectacular. I don't care for the hastily answered questions, or open-ended reasons for some things. Every character got a perfect resolution, mixed with some of the greatest action BSG has put on screen. I thought Starbuck being an angel was perfect - there's been this intense mythological core running through the series, why shouldn't an angel appear to help them? The resolution of the opera house wasn't anything groundbreaking, but it made sense and Tyrol's reaction to discovering his wife's death was amazing.
And that last hour? On the new Earth? WONDERFUL. Tigh, Lee, Bill, Laura, everyone... what a GREAT way to wrap it all up. Gaius breaking down after saying, "I know about farming" was touching. All in all, this pretty much ended on a perfect note for me. I'm sad to see BSG, one of the greatest series in decades, go - but I'm satisfied with the spectacular ending it provided. -
Ron Moore was just like the rest of us. He had no idea why Balter had a six in his head. He had no idea why Starbuck came back from the dead. He was making it up as he went along, in order to produce shocking reveal scenes that would keep the audience coming back. He knew the ending not long before we did. No wonder Starbuck got to be Jesus.
-
Say goodbye to your dad forever, and then have the girl you're in love with disappear 2 minutes later. Didn't like how that ended for him. Also, why won't Lee and his dad see each other again? It was kind of a unnecessary goodbye.
-
Anyone who believes this wears his ass for a hat. Seriously. There is no effing way she was an "in-head" to everybody. She might have GIVEN head to everybody, but that's a different story.
The in-heads knew what they were. They knew what their purpose was. They knew they were not humans or cylons. Kara had no idea what she was or what her purpose was. She was the literal Kara Thrace resurrected and returned by the same force that controlled the in-heads, but she was not an "in-head."
Tests were run on her, BLOOD TESTS, she piloted a ship, she killed cylons. You sad, pathetic pack of FOOLS who believe this. May Odin smite your taints. All of you. That is literally the LAMEST notion I've ever heard for any element of this series.
And btw, in Moore's podcast, he wasn't very happy with in-head six picking up Baltar. It didn't seem like it was meant to in any way suggest that these apparations could interact with their environment. And slowly lifting Baltar is a FAR CRY from flying vipers, piloting a large garbage scowl, killing centaurians,etc., etc., etc.
I say again, may Crom send legions of helgramites to infest your lower haunches, all who cling to this stupidity. -
Right. I'll find some article in which Ronald Moore can explain what his TV show never conclusively explains. Because I'm the type who prefers to READ rather than SEE my television. "The in-heads are angels." "The in-heads are demons." "The in-heads are plot devices." "The in-heads are hopes and dreams." "The in-heads are faith." "'The in-heads' is a really stupid expression." "Kara was an in-head." "Kara was a ghost." "Kara was a figment of everyone's imagination." "kara was a poltergeist." "BSG was the greatest thing ever." "BSG was the most over-rated thing ever." "You're stupid." "No, you're stupid." I'M TELLING YOU ALL - IF I HAVE TO PULL THIS CAR OVER...
-
Just what I always wanted from my favorite scifi show, let's turn it into Little Frak on the Prairie. No, we don't need space ships and guns on our scifi show, we need Amish hats!
I HATED this finale. Anything would have been better. Put them on a planet with hostile Aliens. Give them another dead Earth and have it end with them realizing that everyone really is dead everywhere.
This preachy sappy ending was nauseating. -
The finale is either the greatest creation in human history to some folks or an epic fail to others... there seems to be no middle ground.
-
Mar 21, 2009 10:21:05 AM CDT
It seems to me that Racetrack was the harbringer of doom...
by santiagoatez
She nuked the whole colony and she was REALLY dead when she did it....Try that, Starbuck!
-
Baltar plainly stated at the end "he doesn't like to be called that". I think if you really pull apart their conversation it's implying that this entire universe is an artificial construct of some kind being guided by an intelligence outside it. The key is when Caprica said "repeat an algorithm long enough and something interesting is bound to turn up". The "angels" were real in a sense, only seen by the characters that outside intelligence was using to influence events. The universe in BSG is just a science experiment.
-
Seriously are we meant to think that Angels exist in the Galactica universe? This is the science fiction show which prided itself on it's attention to character development and realistic drama. Ronald D Moore and company kept telling us how adult their show was without the "hokey" premise of aliens and intergalactic civilisations yet they have no problem with the notion that 'Angels' are real, really? So in the spin off show 'Caprica' can we expect to see Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns and Vampires because they are just as fictitious as bloody Angels. The finale was a great piece of TV, but the "Angels" thing was too much. Which brings me to the question...Why the fuck do so many Americans believe Angels are real?
-
Apples and Oranges. Both taste great. Nothing wrong with loving them both. Now where are those Fringe grapes?
-
I think the angels thing is more of a fan construct. Just the closest people could come to describing forces intervening in the form of humans. Could be some kind of spiritual thing, but it very well could be a technological projection of will. But to answer your question? Same reason why most people know more about "Rock of Love" and American Idol than BSG. Some things are sad AND true.
-
Though it would have been nice to see Tigh get his revenge, the suicide works for his character.
-
http://tinyurl.com/crdpk5
-
For the most part, I did like the finale... The last 1/3 or so was perfectly paced, and what I wanted... but the previous 2/3rd felt rushed, almost forced. And while I really enjoyed seeing the old Centurions, the special effects looked very cheap and low budget. They looked like toys, or just poorly rendered. I also had some problems with a few of the interjected plot points: For one, Romo Lampkin as president? WTF, seriously? Listen, I loved his character, and I did want *some* level of resolution for his character... but his being President? Come one. That instantly broke my suspension of disbelief, and bothered me for the rest of the show. They would have been better off just letting him board the Raptor saying his good-byes. And what's-his-face as Admiral? Frankly, I would have chosen even Doc Cottle over him. As an audience, we just didn't know this guy well enough. And Baltar's speech on the bridge of the ship was just a little too... perfect. And Cavil shooting himself was retarded. Absolutely retarded. That whole scene was just bad. It felt rushed, and like the writers needed something to happen in 20 seconds to tie up a few loose ends. Personally, I think that scene should have been an episode unto itself, and a little more complex than it was. And my biggest gripe: The idea that everyone, EVERYONE in the fleet, would agree to do away with their technology, and send their ships sailing into the sun, intent on "roughing it" was just awful. AWFUL. There *should* have been a final battle in which most of the ships (and humanity) were destroyed, and the survivors were marooned, forced to rough it, and found that they kinda liked it. That would have made *sense*. But now that I've got my gripes out of the way, I did enjoy the rest. :) I did like Baltar's resolution... When he told Caprica "I know something about farming", I nearly choked up with him. That was a great moment, and a great way to leave off his character. As for Galen... I really wanted more for him. He'd suffered so much, and I wanted him to find happiness. But, I guess that was a little too much to hope for. Ok, I bitched a lot here, but I did like it, I swear! :P
-
Give me a fucking break.
-
Mar 21, 2009 10:40:04 AM CDT
Bottom line: Very disappointing considering the level they start
by biggie kaiju
I love the show. The miniseries and the first two seasons are as good as anything I've seen on television. The acting, the effects, the storyline; everything worked like gangbusters. But somewhere between the one-year time jump and the Final Five temple supernova things went astray (exempting "Exodus Part II," one of the shows greatest episodes). The reveal of the Four just confused the shit out of everyone, and from there there was no going back. Season 4 overall has been a mess. "No Exit" was an absolutely ridiculous info-dump of an episode that succeeded in making the show's mythology utterly incomprehensible (borne out by so many posts after broadcast with different timelines and interpretations). Last night's finale was excellent up until the Opera House/CIC confrontation. Seeing the old and new Centurions in action was a little slice of geek heaven. But the last half hour was a complete failure. It was absurd to have them decide to send the fleet and Galactica into the sun (And no money shot of Galactica melting and breaking apart = fail). It was absurd they all unanimously decided to abandon all technology and live as farming cavemen. It was truly absurd that after all they've been through, and the bonds they've forged, everyone pretty much decided to go their own way (Adama, Lee, and Galen all going off to wander and live all alone was fucking horrible. What human being would ever make that choice, given the circumstances? No goodbye between Adama and Tigh = fail). Starbuck vanishing was a complete cop-out, and the "she is whatever you want her to be; not everything in life is explained" bullshit is just that; bullshit. There are a hundred questions I could post regarding small unanswered issues that add up to large unanswered mysteries. It's a great shame they didn't plan this show's trajectory out ahead of time. I sincerely hope "Lost" can avoid such a frustrating and silly end. The Times Square epilogue was completely unnecessary. It's a low-down dirty shame, but tomorrow is another day, and we'll always have the best of the show to enjoy.
-
Personally, I loved the ending. It requires a leap of faith though not one as grandiose as “Kara is Jesus.” Kara was an angel of sorts to bring them to their destiny. She did not walk on water, heal the sick, or turn water into wine. She was arguably not even "alive" aside from an angelic completion of prophecy, and when that ended, she was gone. No she was not a mirage “in the head of everyone” because unlike Baltar’s in-head six she could actually do things (like activate Galactica’s final warp jump) so yes she was really physically there. Suffice to say: “it’s a miracle,” and to anyone who doesn’t buy that: well, there’s the explanation, anyway. As for the rest of the finale; I loved how they found Earth, I loved “when” they found Earth (so to speak), I loved the way the original theme song subtly played in the background as the ship was sent on its final voyage, I loved how the final fate of “evil Cylons” began with a schmaltzy “why can’t we be friends” kind of ending, then escalated into a “frak that they’re evil and paranoid” moment where Cavil shoots himself in his own frakkin’ head. The only *nitpick* I have is how the Galactica warped to Earth and didn’t leave a scratch on the Cylon mother ship; didn’t Boomer’s raptor warping away too close to Galactica nearly crack Galactica in half just a few episodes ago? Though…whatever. My only REAL gripe: that I was busy last night and could not see the finale “live,” which would’ve been fine except: my local cable service thought it was a two hour finale and not two hours and ten minutes, which meant that I had to download the finale from iTunes this morning to see the final minutes (which I was going to download eventually anyway, but still…). My only request is that Sci-fi (or syfy or whatever it’s about to call itself) let Galactica gracefully GO. Caprica as a prequel series is okay, though do NOT follow this up with an “After MASH” style catastrophe, or worse yet, a trio of movies called Galactica: Generations, Galactica: First Contact, Galactica: Insurrection and Galactica: Good Heavens I’m Glad TNG was Put To Pasture After That Final Frakkingly BAD Movie. This was as perfect a finale as could possibly be hoped for, so pretty please no epilogue mini-series showing what happened to them as they became the fore founders of the Egyptians and the Toltecs and the Mayans, to quote the original series’ prologue. In short: great ending. Leave it that way, please.
-
A side note here. But some of the strands of music you hear ( the scene where they are laying in the grass for example) are lifted straight from Alien. Bugged me like hell when i first saw it last night. I knew i knew it from somewhere. . then this morning when I was rewatching it , it hit me.
As for the finale as a whole...Loved it. Was it perfect? Nope. But still loved it. -
Like it or not the parallels of BSG and Matrix can be drawn with this whole "didn't get it right the first time" thing. Whether or not you can draw any real conclusions (especially after reading RDM's interview) this is my take: The forces are at work and maybe as humans have painted them in one culture or another there is a "God" and a "Devil" - as humans have painted them. Its evident that Baltar and Caprica are far more than they seem and the in-head constructs were there to guide and nudge when needed - oddly enough Baltar became the linchpin to everything. "It" what does not like to be called God may be the one higher force guiding this in much the same way as the Architect did, getting stuck on that scratch in the record with the Human/Cylon race experiment. But, was "it" the benevolent God that we think about? "It" doesn't like to be called that may or not be as we see it, but you need to consider Kara's part in this and was her guidance part of that or someone/something else's "hand"? I'd tend to believe there's more than one "force" at work here and hers was the one trying to keep it on track while the other was less "involved" - maybe . . . Maybe she was guided to show the mistake from before on E1 before going on to E2 and making the big decision to cast it all away and merely slip into the gene pool and start again. IMO, RDM's going back to the STTNG finale and fixing some of what we all didn't like. RDM's resurrected the same "guiding force" concept and modified it in BSG and left it more "less" answered. I think STTNG revealed too much about the origins of it all and this was a way to tell it right. I do like the idea of the "it" and not revealing too much as we all wonder about it to some extent and many adopt a religion to try to cope with that lack of understanding. Religion to me was created from that need to put a face on things and RDM saw that when its all said and done we all come from the same place and there will be chances to get it right again and again. That guiding force represents more than we can ever really hope to comprehend on this level, but it can't be denied that decisions made affect more than yourself and that "Butterfly Effect" is something to consider. If mistakes are made its good to know that something's watching somehow, someway. "Let a complex system repeat itself enough times and something surprising might happen". Can't wait.
-
I think people for some reason, write off an dialogue in past episodes or this one as crazy babblings of delusional characters. At one point, we flashback to Leoben literally calling Kara an angel, etc, etc. Why cut back to only that one line if it's not true? But remember, when they say "angel" they don't literally mean "an angel as known in the Christian religion." And Baltar's revelations while speaking to Cavil explain it as much as anything else.All this time, the show has discussed god and gods, etc. I guess lots of people just assumed -- which I suppose is what it first seemed like -- all that talk was just ravings from crazy people. This isn't the typical Star Trek template of saying any faith or religion is for dumb, backward people living in the past. But the only not 100% crazy religion Star Trek gave us was the one of the Bajorans on Deep Space Nine. A series Moore was a big part of. Makes some sense. Granted, DS9's prophets were proved to be aliens, but the show still included people of faith.Bottom line, this show's constant discussion of religion, or higher powers controlling things was not a bunch of bullshit as many assumed.
-
Like after the Babylone 5 finale, where it is shown that everyone has forgotten our heroes, I get the feeling that fight the Capricans fought was all for nothing. They're on earth now, but humans were already there. They gave up tech and everything they like (culture, music, etc), and lived to do what, exactly? What does it matter to reproduce with the native compared to letting the native do their thing?
-
Anytime a writer needs to have a mcguffin to end their story and save the day means that they are lazy, and didn't think it out well enough. LOST is on track to bury this finale, since the writers on LOST have known where their story was going all along. (even with a coupld of cast hiccups that had to be explained)
-
Mar 21, 2009 10:54:19 AM CDT
When was the last time we saw anything supernatural on BSG?
by fanboy71
And Kara just vanishes into thin air. D'Oh. And then it's all explained away by GOD! That's the same way cavemen explained lightning and thunder! Very weak. Ruined the series for me, and I've been there since the mini. I'll never watch anything else Moore does. Especially Caprica.
-
I don't think that's their point. There are 30,000 BSG-humans on the planet, spread out onto all the continents. Some of THEM will get together and have kids, etc. And meanwhile, they will help the caveman types along as they evolve over time. I don't really think we're supposed to believe Lee is just gonna wander around the plains by himself until he runs into a sexy cavewoman. Weren't he and Starbuck just a fairly short distance away from the little tent city headquarters as the watched Adama fly away.Sorry folks, but there are just shows and/or writers that are not interested in spoon feeding you everything. I would have liked some more concrete explanations, but I liked the ending they came up with. Honestly, I was expecting much worse. The ending we were expecting before the Chief did some strangling would have been much less satisfying to me.
-
I hope you're not comparing Baby 5's ending with this pile of shit?? And In Baby 5 they weren't forgotten.. the planet was dying and and the super evolved human said none of you will be forgotten.
-
Seriously, it's a different type of show and it better have a different finale...
-
Mar 21, 2009 10:58:01 AM CDT
Metaphysical,quasi-religious,new age, paranormal plot points..
by conspiracy
have become the cop out of writers with great ideas but no clue as to how and implement or complete them. Was this really all needed? Could not have we just had a good grounded Sci-fi show without it veering off into JJ like meandering? What was wrong with just having a deep, emotional story of the Humanoids and Cylons murdering, hating and generally kicking each others asses until they all realized how futile their struggles were and how it drug them all down to a base level, and made them all the lessor for their efforts? THAT would have had alot more weight and resonance at this point in history.
-
My family and I talked about this for an hour or so after the show ended and some of the ideas you put foward in your comments were ones that we considered too. I suppose it could have been a higher power at work, and as some have suggested here the Matrix hypothesis seems plausible if we're to think that nature intervened guiding and shaping events that would conveniently produce this outcome. As for your answer to my question, you're absolutely right. I guess the problem lies with me I give people too much credit for having some kind of intelligence when in fact a lot of them watch brain rotting shit like "Rock Of Love" and "American Idol"
-
Now, something I haven't noticed anyone bringing up was the likely fact that our heroes may have brought their gods into our culture. Apollo, Athena, Hera... all ancient gods whose presence on our world may have been influenced by these folks. Even the names for the constellations. Caprica, Saggitaron, etc.
-
The question on why Hoshi was given an important part? Easy. Because they didn't have many more known characters left to use. And the writers wanted all the major characters to be involved in the epic battle. Same reason we had crazy lawyer guy become the president. They just wanted to find a spot for everyone.
-
http://www.blogy.com.ar/battlestar-galactica-4x20-daybreak-part-2-download-season-4-episode-20-s04e20-series-finale/
-
It all happened before...it will happen again. Like a period in time stuck in a loop. Eventually technology will evolve and the earth will destroy itself..again..and again..and again. They were the Gods from which our beliefs sprang...and it is all driven by a higher power..blah..blah..blah. Not inventive...weak. You kinda knew where this was going after season 3...the only thing in question was how they were going to get there...and off into angels, demons, and higher powers we went...
-
I understand that he took her for a last ride, but why would he never feel the need to come back? What happened to the Raptor?
-
Moore could make the idea of them as seed for the Gods Mythology work. Gods in ancient times lived on the earth...but no evidence of them..blah, blah, blah...; And you know Jesus was a Cylon...belief in ONE God, resurrection...etc.etc. Eventually the cylon belief system became the basis for the modern monotheistic religions...etc. Get it? Sure them ditching everything makes no sense...but it was the ONLY way this mess could work.
-
There's a lot of it in this thread, where piece of shit apologists simply cannot understand how badly Ronald Moore fumbled, dropped and then fucked the ball.
They'd rather not believe that something they've loved for the last 6 years, something they told their friends about,something they invested so much of their personality and reputation in could actually suck so bad as the final season that last fucking episode.
The entire quality of the last episode was laid out for me in a single instant:
"Oh look, that Indian guy is checking out Tricia Helfer."
They didn't give a fuck, they just threw the worst possible episode out there to finish off the worst season they could do. They lost touch with every single fucking thing that made the show worth watching. But for those who won't or can't accept that, I guess it's another round of blowjobs for Ronald Moore for creating "perfection."
Fuck that, fuck Ronald Moore, and fuck the sycophants. -
It amazes me how many people believe they have the definitive opinion on this show, or anything else. If you liked it, you're an apologist who doesn't REALLY like it?
-
If people enjoying something that you didn't really makes you that enraged, you should probably consider seeking clinical help.
-
Re: slder78 & expert40. I just read Mo Ryan's write-up and I tend to agree with her comparison of Adama/Apollo/Starbuck as the Father/Son/Holy Ghost, rather than Starbuck as the Colonial Jesus. The Starbuck I've watched in BSG was no Jesus. They told us she was a harbinger of death, more in line with the old testament view of a messiah (a tool of God), instead of the Christian understanding of "The Messiah."
It's a wide world, with more than one way to understand God/Nature/the Divine. The BSG writers obviously drew from many religious traditions for allegories, and not just from Christian tradition- hello Buddhism's karma? "All this has happened before & will all happen again" -the big wheel of Hinduism, anyone?
One of the tip-offs of the cycles of violence is religious intolerance. Someone is missing the entire point of the show if they don't look at what they are doing to continue the cycles of violence. Open your minds, it can be fun. Just saying. -
"Alright, okay, I just want everyone to know before we all put our hands in this goo here, well... some of us may have done some wild and crazy things in the past, but, uhh... I mean, nothing personal and let's all just try and stay calm."
-
Where were all the basestars? How did a few nukes destroy the whole colony when we've seen nukes hit the Galactica and Basestars before with not the same effect? How come the battle for the tylium asteroid from season 1 seemed much harder than attacking the Cylon colony?
-
Mar 21, 2009 11:31:30 AM CDT
Starbuck not forgotten... There are Starbuck's EVERYWHERE!
by turketron
poom
-
Also... Racetrack killed the Cylons? Show me one person who predicted that.
-
It was established when Boomer kidnapped Hera, that FTL jumps too close to the ship damage the ship. But in this episode 4 raptors jumped from within the ship, the museum wing...
-
LOL at Indian guy checking out Tricia Helfer. I don't blame him, if I was walking down the street and saw her in that dress, I'd stare, drool and probably run into something. However, couldn't the producers get another shot without that? Just one of the many problems I had with the finale, however it's the one I can actually laugh at.
-
The nukes didn't destroy the colony outright so much as they did push it out of the "sweet spot" of the singularity, thus destroying it. That was really conveyed too clearly in the episode, but RDM said in an interview somewhere that that's how they scripted it.
-
My previous post should read "That was NOT really conveyed too clearly..."
-
I don't think any group of humans would ever walk away from technology and knowingly put themselves into a future where their kids can die from something as simple as an ear infection. I would have been happier to see a group of Federation ships surrounding earth, ready to meet them.
-
that cannot be explained scientifically. Gods, ghosts, the supernatural, all have scientific explanations. We just haven't found them yet. I would never discount the possibility that something created us, but I also believe if that's the case, that something created that being, and so on. I believe that what people call the soul is simply energy, the same electricity is. We are just machines made of meat. Without the energy that keeps us going, we stop going. Same as with any machine.
One of the things I liked best about the ending is Head-Baltar's "It doesn't like being called that" line. Gods are the stuff of primitive minds. I think of the Head-Six/Baltar (and even Resurrected Kara) as agents of something else. It isn't a god, but it is conscious. However, to explain itself to something with as limited intellect as our species (and I'm counting the Cylons in this), it would use a term we'd understand, and simply have its agents use the term "god." While my old nemesis, Expert likes to see his religion boosted in the finale (and rant about someone no one here gives a shit about), I see my belief in science. I love that the ending was written in a way that two different view points can both take legitimate claim to it.
All in all, I loved the ending. Few series go out on a note as good as this one. I must admit, I found some of the initial robot images silly, until I got what they were going for with the additional ones. -
"were they in-heads?" Yes. "whos head were they in?" They're angels, they're not *essentially* in people's heads. "were they real?" Yes, in-heads/angels are real. "how did they live that long to be real?" They're incorporeal; they're the seraphs from the original series.
-
as long as you're a right-wing, bible-thumping nut-job who can't tell the difference between good writing complete and utter bullshit. This is going down in sci-fi history as the worst finale ever to a series that was already on a tragic downward spiral. It went out not with a bang, but a whimper. BSG just never came back after its huge shark-jumping at the beginning of season three, and the reason is that the people in charge of making it didn't "have a plan" for what they were doing at all. The "BSG apologist" who defends this ending is going to become the newest and saddest character in fandom. At least until the LOST finale... then, who knows?
-
... But you'd probably be doing yourself a favour by reading them here, rather than watching the show.
In the first half hour of the finale it was the little things that were bothering me.
They'd shoot a cylon, or five or ten dead in the hall, change camera angle and there would be no dead cylons anywhere. This lack of consistency happened like a dozen times, and it killed me each time.
They'd do sudden jump cuts to leave out having to explain how the hell the assault teams got to or from their objectives. Just "commercial break, here we are! LOL!" Sure helped deal with that pesky "having to write something believable to show our audience some respect" issue...
It was also pretty pathetic to set up flashbacks simply for the characters so they could later nostalgically flashback to the flashbacks in the same god damn episode (or to the episode before - Anders "perfection"). That's pathetic and it's not character development, it's character re-writing at the 11th hour to make up for the missed opportunities in the past.
That, largely, is my criticism of the first half.
My criticism of the second half is that it was pure, unmitigated bullshit.
Despite Adama's "clean slate" nonsense, does anyone, ANYONE, actually think that 30000 people would just agree to live like cave people and send their ships and technology and everything into the sun.
It was pap. Pure and simple. Contrived, garbage.
The nonsense about Hera was also garbage. Mitochondrial Eve is a statistical invention with no real meaning. It's an accident of circumstance, and if she wasn't there, then there would simply have been a different one.
Making Head 6 and Head Baltar into angels? WTF. Go back to season 1 and 2 and tell me head 6 is an angel. I dare you. This was simply a casual re-write of one of the most interesting parts of the early show.
Head 6 was my favourite part of the first 2 seasons. They kind of forgot about it in season 3, and resurrected (lol!!!) it for season 4. I wish they had just forgotten it, because their explanation doesn't make any sense.
Kara, now there's a contrived bunch of garbage. She's some kind of space Jesus? Die for them all and come back to life to lead them to Earth? What happened to the angel of death stuff? I guess it was too inconvenient to reconcile with the "let's all hug and have sex with those proto-humans" ending.
The entire finale was summed up for me in the last scene where an Indian looking extra totally checks out Tricia Helfer. It was like "that's it, we give up, just print that crap."
I would like to think it was the writer's strike that killed the show, as the first two seasons really stand out as among the best in sci fi television.
It seems that from there they lost touch with who the characters really were. There's simply no way to develop the Season 1 Starbuck into the space Jesus of the finale. There's no way to develop Apollo into the Lee "let's send the ships into the sun" Adama of the finale. There's no way to develop Gaius Baltar into whatever he turned into in the finale.
They spent a lot of time and craft to develop flawed characters with internal and external conflict and then just pissed it all away with sloppy writing that didn't give a damn.
I said I would like to think it was the writer's strike, but having heard a few minutes of the BSG special that aired before the finale, unfortunately I would have to name Ronald D. Moore as the problem. The most telling part, to me, was when he was discussing his idea for the final five (something that wasted untold numbers of episodes with no real payoff that couldn't have been done with the rebel cylons). He was basically saying thins like "and then I told these people, and they were all like 'that's a bad idea' and I knew I had a good idea!" and "I couldn't make it that character because it was too obvious, I had to find something more shocking!"
He wasn't coming up with ideas that made sense given the rest of the mythos he had painstakingly crafted, he was trying to shock and surprise people for the sake of shock and surprise. In the end he sold out his own show for the kind of "SURPRISE!" that M. Night Shyamalan would be proud of. He sold out the story and the characters for an image. An image of four characters looking at each other and going "we're cylons!" That was the beginning of the end, and it was a pretty crappy end.
I guess this is what happens when you don't have the story laid out like J.M.S. or at least the dubious quality control of Paramount Studios to keep your own bullshit in check. -
This is pure non-sense. Why would they walk away from their tech/comforts? To break the cycle! To get a clean slate... have you been watching? Have you looked outside your window? How do you not get the point? It DOESN'T have to be like this. It's positive ending. And no scientific ending/explanation for the visions or starbuck would ever be satisfying. Why do you need to be spoon fed? There is something at work in our universe, but it is beyond our understanding. That's the point, I think.
-
My friend keeps asking me that question... the scene that they show during the opening credits where the shockwave hits him and Six.
-
I wish it had paragraph breaks, but good rant. I think you've hit the nail on the head.
-
When your reasoning is that it isn't afraid to show faith. I'm looking at you, expert.
-
However, it is a fun parlor game to look at the religions/historical traditions/philosophies that the writer drew from to create this mind-blowing new story. Also, I think one of the gifts that Ron Moore has is his ability to explore the tension between religion/belief and science, as shown by BSG & DS9.
-
How would YOU have ended the series? Positive? Depressing? I've seen a lot of commentary, but no viable offerings of what anyone wanted to see.
So...how about it? -
I don't think they meant to simply throw everything away and live on berries and wear skins. They clearly took some tech with them. It was just the most advanced stuff that they got rid of. Medicines and maybe weapons may have been kept, we see the tents....that's technology right there. I bet Baltar's farm became a great trading point. *sigh* I'll miss this show.
And as for Lost..sure, they have a lot more to reveal, but the Time Travel aspect is really the major thing. I'm not sure they can top that. All that seems to be left is "Oceanic 6's adventures through time".
-
They had arranged to rendezvous with Admiral Hoshi at a certain location. After Galactica got to Earth2, they sent a raptor to the rendez-vous point. Hoshi mentions this in dialogue with Adama.
-
This last season had some less than stellar episodes, especially towards the end, but this two hour finale was a terrific send-off to one of the best shows on television. I loved the way it ended and I'll admit that those last ten minutes or so had me tearing up like a baby. I don't think I can remember the last time a television series was able to illicit that kind of emotional reaction from me. I was a little surprised at how they handled the explanation of Starbuck's resurrection but the religious themes where always a big part of the show. I'm glad it was her that ended up saving the Galactica and leading them to salvation, they gave her return a purpose and made her a part of something greater than anyone could have imagined. I thought the spiritual angle was actually a surprisingly satisfying way to wrap up some of the loose ends that I honestly thought they wouldn't have time to resolve. I'm pretty happy with the way everything ended. Hell, the scene where Tyrol chokes the shit out of that Cyclon bitch Tori after discovering that she killed his wife (I miss Cally!) made up for the few mediocre episodes we've had to sit through this last season.
-
Mar 21, 2009 12:09:44 PM CDT
Fuck....Supernatural elements were in BSG since the beginning...
by darfurontherocks
Go watch first season and tell me BSG was bereft of the unexplained.... Adama says that the people are going to Earth.... He was lying but all the coincidences to follow was indicative of a supernatural force..... However, if we subscribe to the narrowest definition of Supernatural....BSG was not supernatural because Jensen Ackles was not in it.....
-
So Hera's descendants (us) are actually a triple hybrid -- Cylon, Colonial human, and indigenous human.
-
By the finale it was too late. For the way Ron Moore was approaching things, he did ok and pulled out about as good a finale as you might expect. But really, the problem is throwing in plot twists for their shock value without knowing in your mind what they are already. The idea that he was sitting there trying to figure out why Kara Thrace died and resurrected AFTER he had filmed that is pretty cheap.
-
I assumed Adama's "one million lightyears" was metaphorical.
-
I thought they made pretty clear that there was just one Kara Thrace. (Otherwise the backflashes to Kara 1 would have been irrelevant to Kara 2.)
-
Having just watched the last episode I honestly feel it was a mild disappointment. The questions that were raised in previous shows being answered with a “God did it” response was underwhelming for a show that spent most of its entire run overwhelming me.
If we’re all capable of understanding concepts like multi-theist and mono-theist extra-terrestrial religions, sentient cyborgs, human-hybrid-robot breeding then why are we not given an explanation that fits the story-arc. It just goes to show that sprawling series like Battlestar are not created with a conclusion in mind. Like Lost it’s easier to hook viewers with amazing questions and quandaries than it is to try and provide satisfying answers.
They were lucky to get past the initial mini-series so I’m still eternally grateful that this show even exists in the first place and I’m still surprised it was allowed to have it’s conclusion but it left me feeling a bit empty. I hope that Caprica is as well made, written and performed as it’s big brother but it will not be the same. I’m going to start watching the series from scratch again next week and see if it’s as good the second time around.
-
Mar 21, 2009 12:15:35 PM CDT
After 12 planets get fucked over ultimately by the Technology th
by darfurontherocks
Perhaps it is not a huge leap to see a arguably reactionary move to get rid of the tech....
-
Yeah, How do I do paragraph breaks?
I put the spaces between lines using Enter in the "Your Comment:" box, but when it posts, it just mashes all the lines together.
What's the deal? -
Plus in-head Kara's-dad gave them the coordinates.
-
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are in the Bible, and therefore in all versions of Christianity, including Mormonism.
-
"God did it"
Did the show that just finished actually come out and say that? Apart from the In-heads, the whole concept was ambigious. Even at the end, Baltar gives us reason to believe that it may not be God behind it all. -
The new series is *filled* with Galactica 1980 references. Everything from human-looking Cylons to Starbuck's connection with the Seraphs.
-
All the episodes can be downloaded from Amazon for $2 each.
-
But no hover bikes :(
Paragraph Breaks are all put together. -
I'm not the biggest fan of science fiction tv nor am I new to it having seen Star Trek and it's other incarnations.
I don't think I'll ever like a show as much as I liked this one. It was a really interesting look at the life of a doomed civilization.
I may have not received all the answers I wanted but I really enjoyed the finale. It was everything science fiction should be. -
Did you ever see the original series? Angels (or something that humans perceive as such) have *always* been part of the Galactica backstory.
-
When was the last time we saw anything supernatural on BSG? Um ... almost every week.
-
This time it's paragraphy!
... But you'd probably be doing yourself a favour by reading them here, rather than watching the show.
In the first hour of the finale it was the little things that were bothering me. They'd shoot a cylon, or five or ten dead in the hall, change camera angle and there would be no dead cylons anywhere. This lack of consistency happened like a dozen times, and it killed me each time.
They'd do sudden jump cuts to leave out having to explain how the hell the assault teams got to or from their objectives. Just "commercial break, here we are! LOL!" Sure helped deal with that pesky "having to write something believable to show our audience some respect" issue...
It was also pretty pathetic to set up flashbacks simply for the characters so they could later nostalgically flashback to the flashbacks in the same god damn episode (or to the episode before - Anders "perfection"). That's pathetic and it's not character development, it's character re-writing at the 11th hour to make up for the missed opportunities in the past.
That, largely, is my criticism of the first half. My criticism of the second half is that it was pure, unmitigated bullshit.
Despite Adama's "clean slate" nonsense, does anyone, ANYONE, actually think that 30000 people would just agree to live like cave people and send their ships and technology and everything into the sun? It was pap. Pure and simple. Contrived, garbage.
The nonsense about Hera was also garbage. Mitochondrial Eve is a statistical invention with no real meaning. It's an accident of circumstance, and if she wasn't there, then there would simply have been a different one.
Making Head 6 and Head Baltar into angels? WTF. Go back to season 1 and 2 and tell me head 6 is an angel. I dare you. This was simply a casual re-write of one of the most interesting parts of the early show. Head 6 was my favourite part of the first 2 seasons. They kind of forgot about it in season 3, and resurrected (lol!!!) it for season 4. I wish they had just forgotten it, because their explanation doesn't make any sense.
Kara, now there's a contrived bunch of garbage. She's some kind of space Jesus? Die for them all and come back to life to lead them to Earth? What happened to the angel of death stuff? I guess it was too inconvenient to reconcile with the "let's all hug and have sex with those proto-humans" ending.
The entire finale was summed up for me in the last scene where an Indian looking extra totally checks out Tricia Helfer. It was like "that's it, we give up, just print that crap."
I would like to think it was the writer's strike that killed the show, as the first two seasons really stand out as among the best in sci fi television. It seems that from there they lost touch with who the characters really were. There's simply no way to develop the Season 1 Starbuck into the space Jesus of the finale. There's no way to develop Apollo into the Lee "let's send the ships into the sun" Adama of the finale. There's no way to develop Gaius Baltar into whatever he turned into in the finale.
They spent a lot of time and craft to develop flawed characters with internal and external conflict and then just pissed it all away with sloppy writing that didn't give a damn.
I said I would like to think it was the writer's strike, but having heard a few minutes of the BSG special that aired before the finale, unfortunately I would have to name Ronald D. Moore as the problem. The most telling part, to me, was when he was discussing his idea for the final five (something that wasted untold numbers of episodes with no real payoff that couldn't have been done with the rebel cylons). He was basically saying things like "and then I told these people, and they were all like 'that's a bad idea' and I knew I had a good idea!" and "I couldn't make it that character because it was too obvious, I had to find something more shocking!"
He wasn't coming up with ideas that made sense given the rest of the mythos he had painstakingly crafted, he was trying to shock and surprise people for the sake of shock and surprise. In the end he sold out his own show for the kind of "SURPRISE!" that M. Night Shyamalan would be proud of. He sold out the story and the characters for an image. An image of four characters looking at each other and going "we're cylons!" That was the beginning of the end, and it was a pretty crappy end.
I guess this is what happens when you don't have the story laid out like J.M.S. or at least the dubious quality control of Paramount Studios to keep your own bullshit in check. -
So you think "right-wing, bible-thumping nut-jobs" are big fans of New Age religion and of gods who don't want to be called God and are beyond good and evil? Um, right.
-
Ok, have been doing a lot of ruminating on this point. As I said above, I view (and I believe RDM's comment supports) the position of "God" as a neutral observer with a bias towards existence. In other words, It wants humanity in all of its incarnations to survive but doesn't care what happens to it as long as it does. Thus it is more of a Watcher presence than anything (heck, I'm going to call it Uatu from now on).
Uatu doesn't want to be called "God" because "God" is an object of worship and devotion (or fear and avoidance, depending on your current mythological development). Uatu doesn't want humanity to even recognize its existence, because recognition denotes the possibility of subjective changes to behavior. Uatu would want Dawkins and "Mrs." Garrison to succeed with their atheist vision because then humans would act unburdened by his presence.
But given the choice between action and hiding, Uatu will always act (through its instruments, the In Heads) when it's the difference between extinction and survival, because (and this is conjecture that it's limited to humans and similar) without anything to watch, what would Uatu's purpose be?
Re: The Matrix
It's inescapable to avoid bringing the Matrix into the discussion, because they have extremely similar themes. The only differences are the cycles are brought about deliberately in the Matrix (not something that has happened before and will happen again) and that Neo is not a person in BSG but the concept of civilization. Neo's sacrifice in Revolutions is analogous to the decision not to build a city. At the end of the Matrix, we do not know if Zion will need to be destroyed again; while it appears to be a positive ending, the fact that they believe they'll see Neo again indicates that the cycle is not over, just possibly delayed. So instead of destroying Zion and rebooting the Matrix every 50-100 years or so, it may be several centuries before that event recurs, if it ever does. Similarly, Humans and Cylons appear to destroy each other on a 2000-year cycle until the decision is made not to be civilized -- and instead are granted a 150,000 year rest period from the cycle. And the question as to whether it will all happen again remains in the air. -
kara's dad is god,kara=jesus
-
Personally I wanted the revelations and developments to be either surprising or have some emotional resonance. That's purely subjective and for me it did not. That's the bottom line, no one needs to be able to write better endings in order to justify that they didn't like it. I did not like that nuked Earth was basically a big fake out. I didn't think the flashbacks added enough emotional resonance to the new Earth scenes which was obviously what they were intended for. The ending was TOO idealistic which clashed with the tone of the series... I'd have preferred a more subtle hopeful quality than the rainbows and daisies and daffodils. The prophecy of Roslin being the dying leader was that she would die before they found Earth. I feel this type of show should have let that bitter tragedy play out. Now if I had to write something, perhaps the final five attempt to bring back resurrection fails in it's intent, but an unintentional result is a regenerative matter that can restore nuked Earth to support life, perhaps too slowly for the characters to enjoy it, but enough so that if humanity can hold on long enough, they will have a planet to call home in a generations time...
-
Yes, in fact -- Head 6's being an angel (in the BSG/Seraph sense) has been one of the dominant theories in fandom since the beginning of the show.
-
The concept of the "Trinity" is an interpretation from which evidence can be found in the bible. However, there is no declaration of it as a truth in the bible, and there are some (many?) Christian groups that do not support it.
-
Reading some of these angry rants, it's like no one ever paid attention to this show beyond the space battles. Religion and prophecy was the backbone of BSG since the freagin' miniseries! If you thought they were gonna scientifically explain everything at the end, you never understood this show to begin with.
-
... since Ron D. Moore himself is obviously the intelligence beyond good and evil who has been manipulating all these events.
-
Simon quoting Tarkin from Star Wars?
-
Baltar may have indeed given us the idea that there may be some entity pulling strings at certain points but that is a pretty unsatisfying way to end a show, with yet another question. Isn’t there a point were we can just drop the ambiguity. For Gods sake it’s all made up anyway, they can write it whichever way they want you. Just leaving things for us all to decide ourselves when they introduce unexplained, weird occurrences like Baltar getting hoisted up off the ground in full view of those around him by something that may or may not exist inside his own head begs for an explanation. I don’t want to sound like an eight year old tugging his mums skirt demanding to know why the sky is blue but come on. Also why did the hybrid say that Kara Thrace was the harbinger of death and not to be trusted when she eventually led them all to safety?
-
All I said was that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are in the Bible -- which they are. How that is *interpreted* varies from one version of Christianity to the next. I didn't use the term "Trinity."
-
Simply great.
-
Are the parts that are better off as left as mysteries. You can't remove ALL of what makes the show so great. Moore could have explained himself into oblivion and done the show a disservice ruining the magic of the last four seasons.
-
The Opera House was some BULLSHIT. It was the verything it appeared to be all along. Bullshit. Bullshit Bullshit. The rest was awesome tho.
-
Mar 21, 2009 12:55:17 PM CDT
"but there are just shows and/or writers that are not interested
by bjornegar
And then there are the shows interested in feeding you nothing. It breaks down to this: Apologists are bringing all their own interpretations to this hole-filled mythology and giving Ron Moore and his all the credit. Anybody with any reasonable expectations is shot down as a Hater. No wonder the right-wing brigade are such fans of this show: Might is right, even when it's wrong, and "God" fixes everything in the end. That's original?
-
But effective. Rewatching the show is going to be so much more satisfying now that everything is pretty much cleared up. But the magic is still there.
-
Than the structure of Father-Son-Holy Spirit is meaningless as an analogue. It could be Father-Son-Mother-Holy Spirit-Doubting Thomas as an analogue group, or Father-Son-Simon Peter. Or Father-Moses. It's only when the concept of Trinity is invoked that the Father-Son-Holy Spirit connection has any meaning.
-
MAKE IT HAPPEN, FUCK KIRK!!!
I am gonna miss this show...masterpiece... -
Thanks Ronald D Moore, you entertained me for what, 5 years? Absolutely brilliant stuff. Stargate doesn't warrant a mention in this talkback, it's not fit to lick Galactica's landing decks clean.
-
I'm actually angry I bothered to invest time in watching this show now.
"Hey Ron!"
"Hi!"
"So what's Head Six then?"
"Umm... an angel? Yes, an angel. From God."
"Ok... who resurrected Starbuck in a new body and with a new Viper?""
"Umm... God did it! Yes, god!"
"But that's stupid. If God's behind it all, he could have come up with a much simpler way of getting them to that planet. Why was everything so mysterious and bizarre?"
"Because God works in mysterious ways!"
"Isn't it because you were making it up as you went along, couldn't think of a decent explanation, so just used the God reason as an excuse?"
"Do not question God! Who is ME!"
"Thanks then you speccy fuck!"
"Amen!" -
as a separate entity is actually a debatable point. In the Acts, the Holy Spirit arrives after Jesus has ascended. However, in one of the gospels (John?), Jesus breathes upon the Apostles and tells them to receive the Holy Spirit. So which account is correct? Both? Is the Holy Spirit part of Jesus or a separate entity?
In other words, there's a reason they had to have a council in the 4th century to figure this all out. -
then who wrote all along the watchtower? did dylan rip it off from an alien civilization? I KNEW IT!! that hack...
-
I wonder if the people who are bitching about the 'god did it' stuff are the same people who get really uncomfortable and angry when someone or something makes them question their existence or their reason/place in the universe. As many have said, the 'supernatural' elements have been in the show since the beginning AND were part of the original show. What made it so interesting was the contrast between the supernatural and the gritty reality of the battlestar. Why are people more comfortable with the idea of a chip in Baltar's head than with the notion that he actually was being visited by an otherworldly force like so many mystics and visionaries have reported in the past?
I do agree with Ckuouka that it's ambiguous and could be science or religion - and I like that - but I also agree with expert that it's about faith, not religion. Gotlik, my earlier post wasn't celebrating atheism, but rather pointing out that atheism doesn't have to be nihilistic. But the truth is that many atheists like Dawkins, Hutchins, Maher, etc. do live in a self-important world where they are NOT spiritual. It's not just about misconceptions of atheism. It's about atheists who arrogantly cut themselves off from spirituality. Spirituality doesn't have to be 'belief in God.' Besides, those who worship science and reason are often guilty of the same things they accuse religious folk of - following something blindly. My point is that, like on Firefly and BSG, faith in something - gods, humanity, love, etc. is what makes us not destroy each other. Cavil had faith in nothing - he wanted to destroy everything he came into contact with, including himself. So he does not survive. You can say that Adama never truly believed in the gods, the prophecies, or anything like that. But he believed in humanity, the dream of Earth, in hope. Starbuck never professed a faith in God or the gods, but she believed in herself, in music, her instincts, her dreams - the last FTL jump was a literal leap of faith. Helo believed in love and family and never gave up, even when Athena was ready to. The characters who survived and flourished never give up hope and believing in something. Those who completely lose their faith and hope: Dualla, Gaeta, Zarek, Cavil do not. The one exception is Boomer, whose faith allowed her to sacrifice. I am going to miss this show. -
As I mentioned in my initial post, there are just tons and tons of stuff that make ZERO sense when given even a tiny bit of thought. What made BSG great was that it was a show, that while "unconventional" in many regards, still made a lot of sense and thus made you appreciate its unconventional nature.
But at the end, the writers just seemed to say fuck it, let just end it. Seriously, that's what it felt like... -
...any Tech that they had taken to Earth would have rotted away tens of thousands of years ago.
-
Mar 21, 2009 1:28:59 PM CDT
Cory849: Yes, Ron Moore's cluelessness about his own show...
by happyhamster
...Ron's cluelessness about what was going on with his own show just got unbearable and groan inducing.
It's amazing he thinks people are going to stick around and watch Caprica in any significant numbers after this tripe. -
in Season 1....Guess you who think that they just made that up out thin air at the end were just not paying attention.She said it more than once throughout the series.
-
That cycle was Eons.
-
LOL! " Thanks then you speccy fuck"
I nearly choked on my coffee reading that. -
You sir, are spot on. Forget Caprica. I'm not going to watch 4 seasons of that, get invested in a character just to have them walk into a field at the end and disappear.
Even typing that out, it sounds ludicrous. Starbuck disappearing couldn't have happened -- I must have dreamt it. I refuse to believe it was that bad! -
Thank you Ron & David. I'm in tears now! lol And what a fantastic end. LOVED IT!!!!!!!! Thanks BSG, Im really going to miss you. Best sci-fi show, and quite possibly the best TV show ever.
-
lol! Hope the coffee wasn't too hot :)
-
By far the best finale since Angel. They actually eneded it with hope?? now thats a twist for this show. LOVED IT
-
The finale could have gone from stupid to perfect with just a few more scenes. Namely some info about Starbuck, what happened to he Centurions over 150,000 years, the fleet not being destroyed. Just some tasty final details. I feel like there was no emotional payoff for the fans. There was plot closure but no satisfying character closure.
-
if you consider 150,000 years to be the world's longest and most difficult game of "telephone", then misinterpreting frak to fuck really isn't that bad! go humanity!
-
Tigh: "Chief, if that had happened to Ellen, I'd've done the same thing." Um, really? Didn't you kill Ellen once? And when did Callie become the love of tubby's life? Didn't "sister" Tory actually save "his" son? You know, back when Callie thought it was a half-cylon baby, back when she forgot it wasn't even tubby's kid? Thinking back on six years' worth of episodes, I am struggling to find one "wow" moment that doesn't hinge on some character inconsistency or other. Guess that's what the apologists mean when they say "character-driven." Driven off a cliff.
-
Does he live the rest of his life alone? Does he jump off the side of the cliff? Do the humans have any of their technology with them ie. weapons to defend themselves,medicine, tools? If not why would they give them up? The last great episodes of BSG were the Mutiny eps from this season. Downhill from there.
-
So, an arrow back in season 2 showing a star map was okay, but Starbuck disappearing wasn't? Jesus... It was a MYSTICAL and MYTHICAL tv series from the miniseries! Get over yourselves! By the by, I'm sick of the argument too about "atheists not getting it". I'm a 'devout' atheist (hee hee) and I loved it...
-
As possibly misguided as what Tigh did, he did it for love.. he euthanized her out of fear for her continued suffering and slavery under Cavil. Regardless of whether tory technical may have saved the child from an unstable mother or not, that still is flat out murder. In the chiefs eyes, Tory took away the only love he ever really had. And remember... the Chief discovered her *actual* thoughts, not just his view of it, so you can't say that its inconsistant there.
-
Mar 21, 2009 2:10:09 PM CDT
Kara Thrace IS the Harbinger of Death, for fuck's sake!
by irishraidersfan
FOR THE CYLONS! It was a hybird that told her! Why does no one get this?!? It's fairly simple, sheesh...
-
Every single character, even minor ones like Hoshi, got closure. You may not have *liked* what we got, but to have gone further wo0uld have been boring as shit. Just like the in-heads said to Caprica Six and Baltar... your lives will be less eventful now.
-
Why does Adama said A Dieux to his son? Why does he go live alone? Wouldn't that suck horribly?
Why isn't everyone on earth white since most of the people in that colony are white? Are we suposed to think that the asian all descend from Sharron models? -
I'm pretty sure one of the other things the hybrid said was "[Kara] will lead humanity to its destruction"
-
IT"S A FRAKKIN' TV SHOW!!! It's not some bible telling people there is a god. It's a self enclosed work of fiction. I could care less if they introduce god into their story, as long as its consistent with the with the world of the show, which it mostly was. It's not making a case for God or Intelligent Design. It's simply offering an explanation for the events of this story. Get a grip.
-
Seriously? what does sort genius plan is this? I didn't think any of this was an happy ending. Every one ends up alone (ex: Apollo, Adama), gives up technology and probably medecines (since humanity doesn't have it later), etc. Cylons.. also gave up technology and stayed on earth, miserable and in their case also unable to reproduce? Number 6 belon on catwalks, not prehistoric gardens, eaten by gigantic bugs..
-
I can only speak for myself, but I am fully aware the show addressed all manner of religious ideas and motifs from the very beginning. It was also interesting to see the storylines play with the dichotomy of gritty realism and themes of a supernatural/spiritual flavour. I am not against any work of fiction that raises questions about our own existence and place in the universe and I certainly don't get angry or upset about such things either. I do however reject the notion in the case of Battlestar Galactica that all visionaries within the show found the ultimate truth in a monotheistic deity and that divine intervention is their true salvation.
-
It wasn't spectacularly bad, and it didn't save the show. It was very typical of this season, really. A couple decent bits but a lot of stupidity.
-
Chief said as much in his drunken rant to Adama, saying basically "we have to settle for others when the ones we really want leave or die," and then there was a shot of Boomer.
So saying Cally was Chief's "only true love" is way off base. So yeah, I was a little surprised by his intense reaction there. Angry? Yes. But killing Tory? Maybe, but I don't know. Either way, it worked tremendously for that amazing scene and sequence of events. Cavil blowing his own head off is an image that is still stuck in my head ... the look on his face was so disturbing and twisted. -
Is Uatu omniscient? It's an interesting question in my mind. The argument for is that It directed things to a "satisfactory" (herein defined as no genocidal conflict every few thousand years) conclusion. The argument against is that it took several cycles of genocide for It to figure out how to make a satisfactory conclusion occur. It also failed to foresee the events it set in motion with the Final Five would only delay the inevitable insteads of circumvent it (would not an omniscient entity had predicted the actions of Cavil?) ... unless one argues that the old cycle had to be completed and the next cycle never begun in order to break it. And what if the Final Five didn't appear to the Cylons? Can we presume that it just would've been a slog until one side or the other was wiped out? Did Uatu know that the Final Five would change the mechanics of the genocide without eliminating its arrival, but in such a way to help prevent the next cycle from occuring? Was the change brought about by the Final Five and Cavil a necessary evil that Uatu was aware of?
Tied into this is the idea of whether or not the InHeads (and you can actually extend this discussion to include Starbuck) have Free Will. The conversations that they have (both among themselves and with non InHeads) and their actions demonstrate an independent streak ... but if they're being directed by Uatu, do they not have a choice in what they do? Could the In-Heads have failed? What if the reverse psychology of In-Head Six didn't convince Baltar to stay and fight?
On the plus side, I think it's pretty safe to say that regular old humans and cylons *do* have Free Will. If the universe was deterministic, there would be no reason for Uatu to intervene with the In-Heads. While those who find themselves in the company of the In-Heads seem to have a diminished free will (but not completely removed -- Baltar defies In-Head Six early in Season 1 and almost pays for it), that's a small number of characters. -
finally got the stink out of TV
-
IN MY OPINION an arrow showing a star map in season 2 is not the same thing as a major character simply vanishing in the show's final. Hell, I thought the writers had some kind of a plan back in season 2; obviously not.
If you liked the finale, then cool. I'm not here to argue with people who liked it. I'm here to express my extreme dissatisfaction with a literal Deus Ex Machina ending, which I think is on the same level as "it was all a dream".
Now I'm going to walk into a field and disappear.
*ping*
-
It made no sense. Why would he choose to leave his only remaining son and go live alone with a ghost?
-
... I guess that means he's leaving, never to return!
-
It's amazing. Some of you people would complain about the second coming of Jesus. This finale was AMAZING. It was the perfect ending to such a dark and brooding series. We needed this ending. It was pitch perfect. I'm so glad that I don't know what it is like to watch something and look for things to complain about...
-
Fuck You! AICN doesnt deserve a Stargate Universe talkback. u fucks arent worthy of excellent TV.
-
American Gods. I won't spoil the book for those who haven't read it yet (although what are you waiting for?), but Shadow's decision towards the end is similar to Adama: removal from existence. The difference is that the work Shadow was a part of wasn't completed, while Adama's was.
-
... among other things. The idea that THAT is why our telephones look the way the do is idiotic. It would have played a lot better, in fact, if their gear wasn't almost exactly like ours. I actually like the GENERAL idea that they came here way back when but like a million other things on this show the devil is in the details.
-
That really sucks.
-
Could Frodo have remained with Samwise et al. in Bag End until the end of his days? Yes. But the journey had so deeply cut him (in one case, very literally) that staying around wouldn't be enough. Ditto Adama. He had earned his rest from the rest of the world, and was going to take it.
-
For example, pages in a book do not have their corners cut
-
"Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death. She will lead them all to their end. End of line."
Nothing about humanity in there, necessarily. I took it to mean the Cylons!
-
...according to many Bible scholars and they cite Genesis where Genesis 1:2 states "And the Earth was without form and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD God moved across the waters."Also, it's notable IMHO that in Gospel of John, Jesus calls the Holy Spirit the Comforter who the Father will SEND "in my name, he will teach you all things."
-
This could mean many things. He was popping pills for a reason. A reason that I do not know. It seemed recently that Bill Adama has become overly emotional. It could be pressure or it could be that he was dying and it fears for his people or etc. Remember, the dying leader will take them to their end. I am pretty sure that Roselyn did not take them to their end and Starbuck already died and vanished. Starbuck was not a leader in my mind. It was Adama with the drive, motivation, and the plan. Honestly, I feel that Bill was slowly dying and that is why he said that I do not have much time.
-
My point was simply that unless you recognize the Trinity, the Father-Son-Holy Spirit analogue is simply a random grouping.
I would also like to state I'm not aware of any Jewish Scholars that submit to that interpretation, but, granted, I haven't read many Judaic scholarly works. -
...after seeing the finale. It explains alot. That's the episode where Head Six says she is an angel and tells Baltar his is an instrument of god.Clearly, there is supposed to be a power or force in the BSG universe that had created the In-Heads and previously mapped star patterns, black holes, planets, moons, asteroids and the like.
-
"It's only when the concept of Trinity is invoked that the Father-Son-Holy Spirit connection has any meaning." -- Why? I don't get it. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are already singled out in the Bible as some sort of special trio; it's just the specific theological status of that trio that's post-Biblical and subject to dispute.
-
Not since Tim Burton "re-imagined" the ending for Planet of the Apes have I been so DISAPPOINTED in the finale for a show.
I can not imagine the 30,000 survivors all wholesale giving up all technology. Does anyone realize what they gave up?
They gave up roofs, nails, soap, insulin, Playstation, couches, all recorded songs, all movies, all books, concrete, tobacco, schools, football, cancer treatments, hospitals, libraries, churches, lawn mowers, fresh orange juice, and a billion more things.
Why did they give all of it up? Because maybe it would end the cycle of violence. MAYBE?
You want me to give up my MTV, I'm going to need more than maybe.
You want me to give up hospitals, hot water, and a stable food supply and I'm going to need a LOT more than maybe.
How about the Cylon toasters? What if they come back and nuke us? Oh don't worry, that probably won't be a problem.
MAYBE!
Folks, it is easy to say "Tech is Bad". Let's all go back to nature. But roughing it for three days on a hunting trip and abandoning all art, science, and literature for all time is quite another matter.
Yet we are expected to believe that that is exactly what all the survivors did because it was the ONLY WAY TO BREAK THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.
Galactica is a Re-imagined series? I see no evidence of imagination whatsoever. I just see a bunch of idiots who threw everything away.
Frankly, I think the whole episode was a sorry sendoff for a show which started with such promise. -
"Starbuck disappearing couldn't have happened -- I must have dreamt it. I refuse to believe it was that bad!" -- That was one of the best scenes in the entire 4-year series.
-
..but I'm just referring to them (one of them is called St. Paul BTW). I'm no bible scholar either. I just read (and watch)everything.No debate intended. I just thought is was notable in light of the issue that you brought up.
-
how did baltar and the cylon blonde chick see "angels" of each other when they were both still alive? FUCK IT. THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN CAVIL A GREAT ENDING. HIS SUICIDE WAS LULZ AND LAME. IF HE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE LUCIFERIAN, THEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEFEATED AND DRIVEN DOWN BUT STILL DETERMINED FOR HIS WAY TO BE JUSTIFIED.
-
"Why isn't everyone on earth white since most of the people in that colony are white?" -- a) That doesn't mean that most of the inhabitants of Earth2 (including the indigenes) are white. b) The current division of races in the human population occurred over 100,000 years after the Colonials landed anyway.
-
thats a good comparison.
-
Not arguing with your point about Cavil not having faith, but how do you reconcile that with the almost poetic way he described wanting to interact with the universe, minus the constraints of being trapped in a meat bag?
-
harder than a pornstar
-
I like how they connected Baltar's new/old, convenient skill set with Lee's new/old, convenient lawyerly aspirations. Or was that me did the connectin'?
-
That's where all the answers are.
And when did Stargate generate such adult theological debate on these talkbacks? Never?
Actually I have just been reading up on SG:Voyager, and laughed at this on Wiki:
"The writers have discussed the possibility that each season represents a voyage of the Destiny through a different galaxy"
-
Are you confusing angels with ghosts?
-
...carrying that show.
-
so she disappears; whatever - at this point I don't care. But how fucking rude to just disappear right when he starts getting excited describing what he wanted to do. "Yeah and then I'm gonna explore the ... Oh no you dint!"
-
any single watchmen post, and the bale post. it took the bale post forever to hit this many. that is a testament to how awesome this show was.
-
The technology thing was based on having a fresh start. It is likely that some forms of technology began creeping in not long afterwards if we are to assume the fleet blended in with our history. It leaves the door open for all the Lemuria, Atlantis type of cultures which some TBers have mentioned in past TBs over the years.
-
Watch what happens to that flight pod - it buckles and almost explodes!
-
"But how fucking rude to just disappear" -- My impression was that she didn't have complete control of it.
-
the extra H is for the ladies?
-
Well of course she didn't, but the writers did - that's really what I'm cracking on. It was for dramatic purposes, but seemed a little unnecessary to me a little dare I say contrived.
-
I respectfully disagree :)
-
Just for today. The extra H is for you, my friend.
-
Just because Lee thinks he'll never see is father gaian, doesn't mean he won't. He set down only a few minutes by Raptor away from where he left...What he was saying was a proper goodbye. That Lee will have to someday let his father go, and now Adama had to go off and find his peace.
Just because he said he won't see him again doesn't mean he can't trek over and have tea with him someday.
-
Well, if they're trying to echo religious references to ascension, it tends to be pretty abrupt: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. ... Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. ... Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
-
The idea behind it is immaterial if the execution is suspect. I like a lot of what BSG has TRIED to say, but they often get in their own way in how they go about saying it. I feel like you could tell almost the exact same story raising the same intriguing issues, but just do a much cleaner job and it would be that much more satisfying.Fwiw, I was really just making a joke and it didn't bother me that much, but it is a case of "let's have her disappear in the middle of a sentence for dramatic effect" when there's no real obvious reason for it to happen.
-
Love the Gaiman. (Please note the spelling. Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
-
Best 2 hours of on screen entertainment ever. i read a bit of the bullshit some of you said and i lost my last shred of hope for the vast majority of humanity, because that was fucking beautiful. Ronald D Moore, thank you.
-
During the Razor webisodes the young Adama met a hybrid that said that Kara Thrace was not to be trusted and would lead the humans to their destuction. He ran from the craft before he could hear this but it was said.
-
Mar 21, 2009 3:25:54 PM CDT
No one noticed they had already run out of creature comforts?
by col. tigh-fighter
Its been mentioned that there is no toothpaste, medicine was running out. Their modern engergy comes from that mining ship, so they will run out of fuel for that soon. The fleet had no real infrastructure to recreate a life comparable to the ones they used to have. Hell, they couldnt even protect the civilians from bandits steeling the food anymore. The fleet had already become tribal and less civilised. Its no stretch to seeing a regular supply of fresh food and water, and no real threat of death being a nice incentive. After 5 years the survivors have become used to a new way of living.
-
Actually, I think the main thing missing from the finale was one last Bill + Tigh moment to say goodbye. Maybe they did one and it ended up on the floor, but I think it is kinda something important to include.
-
i thought it was great. im gladaction hour was put in place and wasn't scrimped on ala heroes finale. it was all a bit conusing. i eventually got it. i read the piece here http://tinyurl.com/dmkbaq which clarified a coupel of things. but in all honestly i got bogged down with the mythology the 12 tribles and whatnot. i still have no idea what half of that is about. all in all. a satisfying conclusion.
-
'it was good, it was good lalalalallalalalala not listening not listening'. few years later..'actually, that was a bit of a cop out wasnt it, and pretty crappy' in response to those asking 'the haters' what would you have done with the finale, its hard to answer because the problems all started way before, when the main writer says 'hmmm what shall i do now, dunno. OOH!! 4 randoms are cylons!!! YES, SCORE!' 'I know it MUST be right because everyone says its a stupid idea'
-
Now come on, that is a gross over-simplification considering that no one really knew what is going on. I would rewatch Baltar's speech to see that this force is not defined....
-
"not listening not listening" -- Um, some of us (on both sides) are trying to engage in reasoned debate here.
-
You're absolutely right about the problems starting before. The finale wasn't some kind of abject failure in and of itself; the die was already cast.
-
it was a good ending for a crappy show.
-
I am sorry. It is turning out to be like all the George Lucas hate, where everyone is chiming about how shit his ideas are, but fumble to come out with something that is universally accepted as good.
-
Mar 21, 2009 3:57:29 PM CDT
phantom menace is gettin worse with age
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
to me anyway. maybe its because i was 11 when i saw it for the first time. always liked darth maul though. awesome fight at the end
-
Image if you were suddenly thrown onto an island, cut off from the rest of civilization. Your notebook, cellphone and iPod would soon run out of battery power. You would still have these technologies around, but they would be useless without a new power source.And, furthermore, considering the Fleet ships (which includes the Vipers and Raptors), weren't they all powered by a fictitiously named mineral? Well, of course, this fictitious element doesn't exist on our planet.
-
Here's another bit to think about. Tyrol killed Tory for killing his wife, who was a cylon hating bitch that Tyrol actually himself hated at times, and punched in the face several time. But, Tyrol also used to be 'Madly in love' with Tory, 2000 years ago on earth 1, according to an earlier episode. Isn't it stupid that at that moment when the final 5 connect and share all of their thoughts that he wouldn't remember his life with Tory, rather than freak out and kill her immediately for Callie?
-
"this fictitious element doesn't exist on our planet" -- But, to play devil's advocate: they could have gone looking for it and brought it back to Earth2.
-
I was reading on tvshowsondvd.com that the entire series will be released on blu-ray on July 28, 2009. Does anyone know if that's really the case? I gave my DVD sets of BSG to my sister in expectations that this show gets the blu-ray treatment this year.
-
Mar 21, 2009 4:07:27 PM CDT
"already singled out in the Bible as some sort of special trio"
by chrth
I'm not aware of any passage in the bible that does that. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but you'll need to find it and quote it.
-
You mean like booze and cigars and... oh, waitaminnit...
-
If you didn't like the exceptionally bad BSG finale then you just don't realize that, you fucking heathen! Seriously though, this show's probably not gonna be defended much beyond the people who based their talkback name on it. Sometimes it can be really hard to admit that you were wrong and that you were played for a fool by the writers of a crappy, directionless soap opera. Caprica is gonna flop BIGTIME.
-
Anyone else think Lee is going to take up with Hoshi? Think about all the women in his life: his relationship with a prostitute resulted in the worst episode of the series; Dualla ate a bullet after a date with him; and Kara just disappeared in the middle of his big life-affirming speech. If I was him, I'd start increasing my options.
-
who else was expecting Apollo to tell Starbuck "I WANNA DANCE!!"
anyone?
nobody?
Well it was worth watching on the big screen for the space battle - I can see why they wanted to save money with nothing but fillers in the lead-up, but talk about your Lord-of-the-Rings-ending! They could'a wrapped that shit up in five minutes, not thirty!
And then, it came BACK again! And again! It just didn't know when to quit!
and Ron Moore just can't help mining the Star Trek shit for material can he?
RAMMING SPEED!! -
They land on Earth 65 million years ago, and some advanced Hadrosaurs overpower them and steal their ship. Final scene: a large meteor crosses the sky while the series regulars watch, and Tigh ends it with 'Oh Frak'
-
Wow, I'm really surprised by some of the outraged responses on this talkback. I'd almost think that a lot of you hadn't seen sci-fi before. 2001: A Space Odyssey, Babylon 5, quite a bit of Star Trek, Star Wars (with The Force, which surrounds and--please don't forget--BINDS all living things and allows Jedis to see the future) all use deus ex machina storytelling tools to, um, bind, their stories together and give them mythological resonance.
Personally, I didn't think that there could be a satisfying ending for BSG and I thought that the writers and producers did a great job. I have quibbles, but they satisfied my quibbles and gave a happyish ending that wasn't maudlin or lachrymose.
We didn't have to watch weepy death scenes for all the characters or the characters start another cramped tent city without a sewage system ala New Caprica.
And, Ron Moore and company mixed in 2 anthropological truths for fun. One is that all our mitochondrial dna comes from a single source. Even, if you think about it, in Moore's world, this is by accident. It just means that everyone eventually bred with everyone else.
The other is that neanderthal man appeared about 350,000 years ago and had completely disappeared by 30,000 years ago, replaced by homo sapiens in an evolutionary move with plenty of guess work as to what happened, but no concrete story. Now, I read through quite a few talkbacks (though not all) and didn't see anyone refer to disappearance of neanderthals, which is strange to me. But, I will admit to not having read through all your posts.
Unfortunately, most talkbackers seemed to find the presence of a primitive form of human on the New Earth to simply be some sort of storytelling convenience.
The fact that we all have one mitochondrial ancestor has seemed weird to science. There are theories, but no explanations. Ron Moore's is as good as any.
As far as the "angels" go, there seem to be a lot of talkbackers for whom that word HAS to be taken literally and seems to have inspired hasty screeds that do nothing other than miss the point entirely.
Angel is a word for something Gaius doesn't understand and knows he doesn't understand. He uses the word angel when none other makes sense, but BSG has ultimately been about nothing so much as reproduction, evolution and species survival (something we should be thinking more about as a species anyway). What BSG has said is that humanoid civilizations have been cropping up for thousands of years and keep destroying themselves when their amazing, swiss army knife brains create a tool that they can't control.
BUT, this doesn't mean, by any stretch, that some species hasn't survived and gone on to evolve into something much more powerful than us simple homo sapiens. These "angels" that Baltar sees might just very well be something that's trying to guide us. This isn't a new idea. This is an idea that both 2001 and Babylon 5 used even more directly without some of the vehemence we see on the BSG finale talkback.
In all, I think that Ron Moore and company has created a finale that's thoughtful, satisfying and has both scientific and poetic truth. If Hera is my ancestress, so be it. Someone is. Why not Hera? So say we all?
-
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." -- Matthew 28:19. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." -- 1st John 5:7.
-
People are writing about this as if the Head Folks controlled everything. They didn't. These characters had free will at every moment. The Head Folks nudged them in the right direction, but it isn't as if they were instructing our characters at every moment. There was no Big Reveal of The One who says "ok this is what you'll do now." The Head Folks seem to know Hera will be the key to accelerating Human Life on Earth. They are helping Human and Cylon to survive, through Hera, in our world. Perhaps without Hera's DNA, the tribalistic humans would have died out.My guess is the Head Folks know that without assistance, Human and Cylon will destroy themselves, wither out in the void of space or mutual destruction. Life is rare and precious. Perhaps Human and Cylon are the only life left. The universe presented, as has often been noted, has no aliens. We see the chain of Kobol, Earth I, Caprica, all leading to this last group of beings, our characters, shepards of life's spark. Perhaps Hera is, literally, the last hope of life itself.
And, thus, so are we. -
We've gotten to the bible-quoting stage of defending a crappy television show.
-
Remember that episode in which they came across a planet that had this valued mineral? It seemed like it wasn't an element you could find much of. And, furthermore, maybe all the fleet ships were dangerously on the verge of running out of power/fuel anyway. (As another poster pointed out, the fleet lost its mining ship a while ago.)To put it another way: Your electric car is about to run out of power, but there's no charging station nearby you can drive to before your car is drained. And there's no lithium to be found either. And, anyways, even if you did find lithium, you don't have the means to process it and turn it into a battery usable for your car.
-
Is it called tillium?
-
i was expecting a shitfest but it turned out okay.
-
Lee's life in 4 seasons: 1)brother gets killed, 2)gets arrested on orders from dad, 3)sees his dad shot and almost killed, 4)gets shot by Starbuck the girl he loves, 5)ejects and almost dies again in a chair in space, 6)gets promoted and gets a battlestar, 7)gets fracked over by Starbuck, 8)gets married and fat, 9)crashes his battlestar and gets demoted, 10) loses Starbuck I, 11)becomes a frackin' lawyer, 12) becomes a frackin' politician, 13)wife kills herself, 14)says goodbye to dad and loses Starbuck II within 2 minutes, 15) dies alone Seriously...he could be annoying, but damn he had it rough
-
Not all of this hippy "we are destroying the earth! Noos!" garbage. Whatever changes you make in your life to "help the environment" don't mean crap, it's a simple matter over overpopulation that's killing the planet. You want to help the Earth? Start WW3, because that's really the only thing that's going to get rid of the population.
-
I don't think my discussion with chrth on the Trinity has much to do with defending or attacking BSG (since we both liked it).
-
It's called tylium. I assume it's the same stuff as dilithium crystals ...
-
Supposedly several clues were hidden in the "Last Supper" Galactica picture. Has anyone from the show explained the clues yet?
-
Lee's argument for going back to nature wasn't an environmentalist one.
-
Mar 21, 2009 4:49:05 PM CDT
Two things Moore should have done prior to the finale...
by prof. pop-cult
He should have had episodes written where it was emphasized that the entire fleet was running out of fuel. And, secondly, there should have been a couple of episodes that mentioned a growing Luddite movement among the humans. Thus, the fact that the humans dumped the fleet ships and their technology would have had a stronger basis established. But unfortunately, most of the episodes in the last half of this season were wasted.
-
Well, Tyrol's holding a knife in the picture makes sense -- since he kills Tory (and indirectly kills off the Cylon race).
-
Still can't get over that, i guess i'm a little bitter. For me it just went way downhill in planning and quality since they left New Caprica. But I think the finale overall was very good...besides ending with dancing robots on TV (which was retarded)
-
Many of the other clues have already come true -- Roslin burning something (the prophecies), Lee in business suit (predicting his political career [now over!]), empty space next to Tigh (final cylon). I wonder whether closed book next to Tigh and open book next to Athena means his kid dies and hers lives?
-
It's clear to me and should be to you that a lot of these angry talkbackers are people who just heard of the finale a few weeks/months ago, decided to pick up the DVDs to get caught up for the final act, and really didn't take the time to get accustomed to the characters and mythologies of BSG. They watched it so fast a lot of the nuances and resonating themes of the show flew right over their heads. This is no more clear than in the fact that many angry talkbackers were expecting some sort of Scooby-Doo-esque reveal of the cylon "god".
I've been reading some of these posts, and some people really have an inexplicable inability to understand concepts that have long been gestating on the show, and wrongly seem to think these concepts just popped up in the last episode -- such as abandoning technology to help break the cycle, or thinking that the fleet was overruning with creature comfort prior to reaching this new earth, when in fact they'd run out a long time ago.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE 2001 and I don't pretend to understand a lot of that film and BSG definitely explains its mythologies more clearly than that movie ever did, by leaps and bounds in fact. But there are just some people who needed Ron Moore to sit down and spoon feed them. I remember Quantum Leap had a similar theme of some unknown being controlling Sam's destiny. This show did that but on a far larger scale. And just like Quantum Leap never spoonfed me that mythology, I didn't need nor did I expect BSG to spoon feed me theirs.
I loved the finale. Thank you Ron Moore and company for a great show and an unexpectedly hopeful finale. -
Good point. And I just noticed that the three angels or deities or whatever are in the middle.
-
The ending really surprised me. I know there were some religious overtones but I really don't have a problem with there being a more advanced something out there manipulating the circumstances.
Great ending! Touching at times. If they had just killed everyone at the end that would have been predictable and easy. I'm finding it difficult to say goodbye to this show that was so different and not afraid to take chances. Thank you Ron Moore! -
but THANK GOD they didn't feel compelled to explain everything that happened in the series. "Oh, I'm seeing things because there's a chip in my head." THAT would have been fucking lame, in my opinion.
It baffles me that, despite the fact that life offers very little to us in the way of explanations (why are we here, what happens next, etc. etc.), people expect their TV shows, movies and books to spoon feed answers to them about every little mystery.
It's like Lynch said about Twin Peaks, when they revealed the killer, they killed the golden goose and the show floundered with a mystery to hold it together. -
I WILL fuck up those Stargate Crapaverse talkbacks. Stargate is generic sci-fi at best - SG1 was ok but nowhere near the high quality of Farscape or BSG. I don't expect someone of your inferior intellect to understand that though.. And Atlantis was a fuckin joke. Kinda like you - suckin the stargate corporate cock the way you like to. see ya at the sgcrapaverse talkbacks when i talk shit about the show (and your mom) regardless of how i truly feel about it.. ya retard
-
I find it interested those defending the gargantuan leaps of faith and inconsistencies inherent in the show are then using religious explanations/paradigms as their foundations and defenses. I guess if someone accepts fairy tales and sky-going-imaginary friends in their everyday life, its comforting to see equally inane stories/threads in their fiction.
-
Yes, even if I like SGU, I will be in every talkback to shit talk you and it in the same moronic, 14-year-old kid way you did in BSG talkbacks. See you there.
-
Hi there
I didn't readt topics but why did ron moore create daniel
what was his purpose to bring it the cylon on the serie. He wasn't the fathe of kara so why? -
Who said "god" in BSG was a literal instrument? You're the one interpreting it as such. I enjoyed the finale and generally the whole show, and I'm an atheist.
-
Hi there sorry about the enters
My question is why did Ron Moore create Daniel
what was the purpose to bring daniel in the series. He wasn't the father of kara so why? -
For me anyway,I've enjoyed this programme.I only wish that they would've made more of thier discarded Spaceships flying into the sun but after the battle scenes earier I'm sure the FX crew had really done enough.Apart from that very good and pretty conclusive too.What a great planet we live on,my only upset was caused by not knowing where in the world Romo ended up ;>,though I can see where Galen's legacy was begun lol....Despite the no Courdry,no laser sounds rule all the best to all involved.....
-
Ron Moore said Daniel was a way to explain the missing cylon model and to ad another dimension to the Cavil-Ellen relationship.
-
This is stupid, and lazy.
-
The idea that space-faring humans from another world could have landed here 150,000 years ago and bread with Neanderthals giving rise to us is both bad science and poor science fiction. Although it’s a conceit of a lot of sci-fi shows an alien life-form landing on our planet would either die very quickly or cause the indigenous species to perish from infection. Even humans that were only separated by seas and oceans caused this very thing to happen to the populations they discovered. Imagine what kind of germs or bacteria would have been carried by the thousands of survivors onto ancient earth. Their alien immune systems would have allowed the common cold to wipe them out in a matter of weeks not to mention the myriad of other ancient diseases. This may have been dealt with by having the doc develop a scientific solution by somehow inoculating everyone but this would be almost as ridiculous as God waving his magic toothbrush and making everything all right.
-
"I guess if someone accepts fairy tales and sky-going-imaginary friends in their everyday life, its comforting to see equally inane stories/threads in their fiction."
Man you must have watched this show hating every second of it, huh? Because the entire friggin' thing involved gods and mythology. I can't understand people who will just watch a show to bitch about it. Get a life. -
Agreed. Ron Moore didn't intend this show for idiots and I and a lot of viewers and talkbackers thank him for that.
-
LOVED THE FINAL!! Wasn't perfect but what ending is!! Thanks Ron.....U earned your cameo and all the kudos to your team!!
-
Was it ever explained how Boomer knew where the fleet was (when she brought Ellen to the fleet)? This leaves open a ridiculous amount of problems if not explained. Maybe I just missed the explanation. The implications however dont add up.
Did Cavil know? If so, then he always knew where the Galactica was? Really? Does it comport with all the previous times the galactica was attacked and escaped and was not pursued? Why if Cavil had this knowledge, did he not use it in any number of other circumstances to attain his goals. Its yet another convenience to fill in a needed story point (getting Ellen back to the fleet) that doesnt jive with previous occurences.
Also, why didnt anyone on BSG inquire as to how they found the fleet? -
Sad to see it go. The whole battle sequence was the best I've seen anywhere. Finding earth 150,00 years ago and breaking the cycle was genius. Loved Gaius' breakdown when he realized that his childhood which he tried so hard to break away from was necessary for his survival now. Too bad about Sam and President "Stands With Fist" not being able to share in the discovery. Hey maybe Starbuck and Sam are together again.
-
People seem to be confused about Starbuck being/not being the harbinger of death. I think it’s clear, however: Kara Thrace IS the harbinger of death, for the humans and for the Cylons. When Hera’s body is discovered and she is referred to as the mitochondrial Eve, it means that she began a new race that is combined of humans and Cylons—basically, what human life is today. That means that the original line of pure humans died out, and the original line of pure Cylons died out as well. Keep in mind Tigh’s speech a few weeks back when he said something to the effect of pure Cylon isn’t enough, pure human isn’t good enough either. Obviously, that was foreshadowing this. Also, Baltar’s speech a week or two ago about embracing death plays a part in this as well. Whether he knew it or not, he wasn’t talking about individual death—he meant the death of the pure human race. It turns out that the eradication of pure humans—something they were trying to avoid the entire series—was exactly what was necessary for humans (in combined human/Cylon form) to continue.
So, Starbuck is the harbinger of death. She led the humans to their end—their end as a pure species, but their beginning as a blended species that lasts longer than any one before it.
First post, by the way. -
pls dont ruin SGU talkback in the future because of me!!! PEACE PEOPLE PEACE!
-
sorry haters, but this season of lost has been incredible. This season has been the payoff. Galactica never explained anything. Zero.
This entire Lost season has been tying together all of the previous seasons and answering all of are questions. ITS AWESOME. Its like the whole season is the season finale but there is a whole other season to go! -
That's bollocks. Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death because she led the colonists to Earth were they could live out there natural lives? That would make her the harbinger of nothing much at all. The human race survived, it may have mated with cylons and Neanderthals but we are all still here. Nope, I don’t buy that.
-
Fuck off. I can't wait for the SGU talkbacks, if the show is good enough for Herc to even post one. Hell, the title is already a laughable Law and Order ripoff. I'm already thinking of all the anatomical references I'll be using to insult the show with 50+ posts per talkback.
-
Your observation is implied by the epilogue, 150,000 years later. (I love typing that, for some reason.) Only Hera's DNA survived. The others might have built small areas for a few while, a few centuries even, but only her hybrid immune system was strong enough to withstand the primal viruses and natural selection.
Our characters roles in the cosmic song was to get Hera there, then to fade away. So, Kara did lead them all to their end. -
SGU will be a good show and we need a cool talkback for it free of haters like you. i dont want the SGU talkback to be like the BSG one where people bash it all the time.
-
That last episode was perfect, great climax but also added closure to the whole BSG universe and connecting the dots, no pun.
-
While I don't think it's wrong to expect the very most from the shows we love, I really have to wonder if any show can hold up to the scrutiny of an AICN talkback. Can you imagine the original BSG being eviscerated on a weekly basis? The bell curve means not every episode will be the greatest ever. The cries of filler! and crapfest! when an average episode airs. I have to go shudder.
-
...is in 1 John 4:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.I'm no Bible scholar but I certainly feel like one today. :-)
-
Filler episodes are fine. They are a necessity, usually to progress a single characters development. Many great shows had plenty of filler episodes. Its not filler episodes I have have problems with in regards to BSG.
-
Or was it Ellen who found the fleet?
-
Let's see, there'll be an SGU TB for the premiere, maybe a handful after that, and then when Herc sees that dioxholster is the only idiot posting in the SGU TBs then we'll never see them again until the series finale.
Stargate ended when RDA retired from the show. Atlantis was ass from the very beginning, and I have no faith that SGU will be any different. Long live RDA, goodbye Stargate.
And I'd like to add again, I own and wear a green offworld uniform at cons, have worked escort/security with almost the entire cast of both SG1 and SGA at cons, and have personally walked the sets of both SG1 and SGA. And all I can say is that Stargate is a steaming pile of shit next to BSG.
I will be happy to join in slagging SGU in the 2 or 3 TBs it actually gets. Fuck you dixholder, you have it coming. -
she died, and came back to finish her purpose...total Tolkien rip-off. Anyway,the Clone Wars season finale was also on last night, and I actually thought that was better.
-
u said that last time, u said u escorted blah blah and u lie. i dont believe you :)
-
Yeah... if Gandalf ran from room to room screaming WHY AM I HERE? WHAT AM I? AAAAAAAAAGHHKKKK!...and then played piano.
-
will be the best! it will make u losers wish u never seen BSG ever coz its crap.
-
(see, I told you I wasn't here to debate real world theology, I should've listened to myself)
-
I know it's not Ain't it Cool talkback tradition to say so, but you do have a very good point and one that I did think about when formulating my own answer.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, the only test case we have on this particular situation is that of the Europeans who discovered the New World. And we know how that went.
And, BSG's ending isn't incongruent with this test case. If we take the indigenous humans to be neanderthals then we know that the last neanderthals died out in Europe around 30,000 years ago. If you account for the spread of population from the spread of the survivor's of the 12 colonies, that isn't out of line. Populations of neanderthals in the immediate vicinity of the homesteads of the survivors could have died out immediately with holdouts developing limited immunity or surviving in isolated pockets in places that the survivors of the colonies didn't want to live like Northern Europe with its temperature extremes.
If you would like to subscribe to the more hopeful promise that some neanderthals did breed with humans, you can always suppose that the survivors of the colonies being FAR more advanced medically than 15th century Europe, were inoculated against the full gamut of bacterial and viral diseases that could have been spread to the neanderthals. Either way, the neanderthals disappeared leaving commentators of The Bible, all anthropology textbook writers and the writers of BSG plenty of wiggle room on accounting for their disappearance. -
Finally able to post, and for anyone wondering, my son's team took FIRST!
I found the finale to be extremely satisfying, the answers are all there for anyone with a brain and an attention span. There were certainly things I would have done differently if it were my show, but it's not, and I'm excited and pleased with the show's resolution.
Something I do wonder about is how Greco/Roman mythology managed to survive 150,000 years. It's not possible of course, which offers the tantalizing possibility that the "Angels" continued to involve themselves with humanity and are quite possibly the Lords of Kobol themselves, i.e. Zeus, Apollo, Athena, etc., fucking sweet! -
It's more BS. Like how suddenly the Opera House wasn't any kind of deep or meaningfu vision, just a step-by-step foreshadowing of people running around on a spaceship. Which by the way only happened because a little girl for some reason felt safer with two weirdos than her mother. Maybe that does make sense - after all, her moms couldn't be bothered to, you know, chase after her daughter when she wanders off in the middle of a battle zone. "Hera!!! Aw, damn it where's that kid going?"If someone out there actually thinks the Opera House vision was created with this as the payoff in mind, there's a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying.
-
There is no point in attacking or defending; it is what it is. Some will like, some will not, and an extremely small number may have their opinion changed by discourse and debate (in my own experience, only Matrix: Revolutions was given a reprieve after discussion, and even still my appreciation for the film is more in the abstract than the viewing). If a person asks a question in honesty, answer it in the same manner. But we're past point of attack and defend; it's over. That's why my posts have largely been ruminations on the implications of what we learned, not discussion of the events that transpired and whether they were good or bad. It's a pointless argument because there, again, are few minds that will be changed at this point.
-
if you got a brain u wouldve recommended Stargate to ur son!
-
Yes the Harbinger of Death *ahem* "You are Kara Thrace, the Harbinger of Death ... of DEATH!!! (and by death I mean you'll lead your people to a lovely planet where they'll have the only real future possible, ie living on through the indigenous people and/or Hera"
-
seriously did that ad try any fucking harder to bite BSG's style and tone?
-
Actually, that's not the only case we have evidence for; we have tons of it. For example, in the book "The World Without Us", they talk about why there are very few megafauna in the New World (at the time the Europeans arrived) but a solid number in Africa. The argument is that because the megafauna in Africa evolved concurrently to the evolution of humans, adaptability occured in both directions. In the Americas, since humans were a later arrival, the megafauna had not adapted traits fit for its survival versus the invaders. There are also several species of transplanted plants that overwhelmed the local ecosystem that we're aware of. And for Simpsons fans, it's just like the Bullfrog in Australia.
In reality, the addition of a more advanced species -- even one going native -- would tip the balance in the concurrent evolution model. The new humans would have developed better/faster hunting skills and that would've caused some serious problems. The arrival of the human/cylons could have resulted in a mass extinction -- including of themselves. -
That just seemed dumb to me. I'm all for making a new start but come one. Nothing but the clothes on our back and a duffel back and we will make a new life on a brand new planet. That was ridiculous.
-
The end was somewhat satisfying. Good to see the Galactica pull "The daedalus maneuver" out of the Robotech playbook.
Now that it's over, I feel like there was 1 or 1.5 seasons worth of story jammed into a 4 season bloat.
Totally worth it to see the Chief choke a bitch and snap her neck. Totally worth it. Too bad has hasn't been given anything else to do since he was revealed to be a cylon.
I won't be going on to "Caprica" nor "The Plan." I've never seen a repeat of BSG that I enjoyed, and so I'm looking forward to forgetting about this show. I did catch a bit of the "last frakkin special" and laughed my ass off at the shot of "taking the opera out of space opera." That's all this show has been since it stopped being a military SF show, and started being the Crying Cylon show.
And I hated the flashback "plea for an emmy." Way to build sympathy for Caprica 6. Revisionist bullshit "oh, Baltar treats his father badly... sigh... I guess I'll go snap a baby-neck."
Loved this cast. Thought the writers could build an occasional tense 20 minutes. But overall story arc? Please.
I will give props to the final "BSG Classic" prologue-ism. "there are those who believe that life down here, began out there." The Mayas, the Egyptians, to Toltecs.... LOVELY!!!! -
Ron Moore is God-"you know he doesn't like to be called that." Think about it. You know it is true.
-
It's crazy how all this technology ended up almost exactly the same, in the present day. Never mind that there is already a clear history for, say, the wearing of neckties - NOPE - it's because fuckin' spacemen who landed here a long long time ago wore them.It's funny how the showrunners think having shit like cigarettes on the Galactica ties into our history very cleverly, when in fact it makes the whole idea of them landing here even harder to swallow.
-
But I loved it all the same. Many of the complaints here seem to be from people expecting too much from the show. RDM was winging everything and so I found the finale to be quite good, given the context. This show has always been 95% suck with the other 5% making up for the rest.
I did have a problem with Cavil's suicide, that was lame and out of nowhere. And I'm still not sure wtf Kara was. The notion of them all splitting up and surviving on their own, while poetic, was fairly absurd. An episode or two of Survivorman should make that clear. It also doesn't make any sense that modern day America would look like Caprica, 150,000 years after their death. That is, unless the "angels" were continually interceding.
All in all though, it played like a movie and I enjoyed it very much. One of the best finales I've ever seen, in fact. But the show, as a whole probably doesn't make my top 10 list, due to its constant meandering and lack of planning. -
but the pilot plays out like a horror movie. coz thats whats starts it. in fact same thing happened to Atlantis, the premiere is always frantic but overtime it relaxes and becomes family-friendly and light-hearted.
-
"RDM was winging everything and so I found the finale to be quite good, given the context."This is the only way I can see someone being satisfied. I can totally see this, my only problem is that I thought the show was way better than it actually is. The mini, 1st and 2nd seasons were misleading, and I haven't been able to ever really dial down my expectations. Not really sure if I should have to, but good for anyone who could.
-
Here's my SDCC 2008 photo album - http://tinyurl.com/cvbbw5, in it you'll see lots of pics of me working the SG uniform as well shots from the deck of the USS Midway where I attended the red carpet premiere of SG:Continuum and then attended the after party with the cast, no pics of the party, sorry.
And here's my DCon 2008 album, http://tinyurl.com/cj3e3j, in it you'll see me with Weir and Ford who came to our con banquet, you'll also see me on stage with Zelenka at the charity auction holding up the Ronan Dex prop replica I designed, there's also a shot of me with Eddie Olmos in there your're prolly not interested in.
There's other interesting stuff in my Photobucket account if you're interested, like screenshots from the ComicCon episode of Entourage I and some friends appeared in, wearing SG1 and SGA uniforms, didn't see much of me unfortunately though.
If you'd like more pics, and more stinging pwnage, like of me on the sets of both SG1 and SGA, I'd be happy to U/L them to Photobucket.
-
Damn good ending. I loved hearing the music from the original series when the fleet was heading into the sun. Goosebumps.
-
Yeah that was great. Maybe they should have used that theme more, I really like it.
-
You honestly think theres going to be a talkback for Starshit Universe? Even if by some slim chance there is you think all of us will forget all the childish bullshit you spewed on this one yesterday? God I wish I had aborted you like your father suggested......
-
...lucky.
-
did you see this webpage about you? http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Chris-chan
-
Fuck you motherfucker fuck bitch asshole stupid shit, fuck off my life you skank stinky shit dog ass fuck. Stargate will have a talkback and will be respected by your smelly ass. and no one wanteed me aborted. no one.
-
Let’s put it this way: you have been away from fresh air, green grass, and real "living" for several years. All you’ve known is this little tin can you called “home” that probably with or without decent life support smelled like a doggit’s wet ass. You come to a planet that’s clean and pure and without any possibility of technology frakking it up for another hundred millennia. So yes, in an admittedly brash decision, you think: frak spaceships, frak technology, I’ll make a log cabin and retire here. It doesn’t mean you’re going to give up knowledge or medicine; if you’re going to be that much of a reality check guru; they would’ve run out of medicine around the middle of season ONE at the rate everyone was getting hurt. So if they’re worth their weight in intelligence they use the materials they can find, on Earth, for new medicine; end of mystery. The rest is pure original series prologue fodder. Did Tigh and Ellen become the forefounders of ancient Greece? Did Hera become the literal “Hera” of mythology? Did Baltar and Six become the forefounders of ancient Egyptian culture? Hey; it’s not science fact kids. That ship sailed when you believed a robot could look like Tricia Helfer, have her frakking spine glow red in the mini-series premiere, and everyone is like, “Doi, no way can we tell she is a cylon.” Well maybe the red LED lights in her spine would be one indication. So yes there are nitpicks if you want a nit to pick, though otherwise; a good finale. Not apologizing here. If anything, I was sure it was going to suck, and I was very surprised it was as good as it was. Of course; atheists are probably pretty livid at all the miracles at work though I can’t help them on that one. You can believe in hot robots that want your little nerd babies though you don’t believe in a god? Whatever.
-
Mythology at it' best. Even better than Star Wars. Fuck Yoda.
-
Looking at the polarization of the reactions, I think it boils down to New Earth. Either it worked for you and you could get swept up in the emotional release that the characters have come to the end of the struggle, or it felt like a cheap contrivance, and all the scenes on New Earth failed to achieve the emotional resonance they were designed to do. The second Earth... our Earth... was a cop out. There is basically no significance to wasteland Earth now. "All Along the Watchtower" led to both of them, but new Earth is a random planet that has been christened Earth because that was their "dream"? I think wasteland Earth had to be our Earth... whether it was in the long past or our future, why should it be so troubling if it was really just a random planet with no connection to us (aside from "Watchtower", which now just seems random). I'd have preferred no wasteland Earth reveal at all, even though at the time it had a great impact, if it ended up as a big fake out.
-
you a retard? go have a scoopy snack u twat. oh and BSG sucks!
-
To me it just seemed like a stretch that all of the 38,000 remaining colonist would just go cold turkey on the technology. Its one thing for someone to settle down build a cabin and just live off the land. Its another thing entirely to convince 38000 people to do the same thing and to literally go cold turkey on the technology. Not ever single ship was a piece of junk. To me it seemed like Moore was reaching a bit to make his ending fit his idea that they had settled on our earth.
-
I'm so damn disappointed. Couldn't have gone out worse. Writer 1: 'fuck, how do we explain all this?' writer 2: 'um..I don't know. We've been making it up as we went along. How about...god did it?' Writer 1: 'Brilliant!'...sigh.
-
If you can't contribute something new, please, feel free to piss off.
-
I can't begin to fully articulate my disappointment. So the answer to so many questions was: its magic. For a SCIENCE FICTION show to wind up its run by explaining away much of their story by reference to the unexplored SUPERNATURAL (which by the way is a better, more tightly written show than BSG for the last few seasons) is just too lazy for words. It's all God's plan. Really? All the Opera House malarkey was just a vehicle to get Baltar to give the brief for Intelligent Design and say can't we all just get along? And everyone buys it despite real concerns about genocide and extinction? Yep. God's plan. Angels? Yep. Hera knows Dylan? Yep. God's plan. Repeat to excess. If God was such a central construct in the Mythology then a hell of a lot more attention ought to have been paid to fleshing out God and his role in things than to Iraq analogies.
Which brings me to the whole "we're all Cylons" shtick. I though this PC crap went out of vogue a couple of years ago then I tortured myself putting up with episode after episode of self-hating guilt trips culminating in the "aren't we all guilty" Baltar trial. They truly sacrificed much of the overall story's credibility, sense of reality to make a trite political statement in an essentially irrelevant forum (do you think any Hutus or Tutsis are debating what the hell Kara was?). You've got a compelling story in the survival of a small group of humans being hunted by a ruthless, genocidal enemy. Why find a way to bludgeon us with Colonial guilt? Is it Edward "It's all Whitey's fault" Olomos (watch the UN speech for a chuckle at someone out of his depth if you don't find such things sad) who's driving that train or just a harmonic convergence of Smug formations (thank you South Park) above San Francisco and London?
Lastly, the whole conceit about being a "character driven" show is fanboy pablum to explain away excessive indulgence of the actors (ever wonder why alcohol is so prominent in the show? Watch the finale for the most excessive examples.) and writers. Actors love to play drunks (and the handicapped) because they can chew scenery. Listening Olomos? Serving Admirals don't vomit on themselves in the gutter outside titty bars. Or at least if they do, they don't walk out the next day on a polygraph because it implies questions about their word and character. So everyone gets to play a raging drunk! Actors love it and writers find it an easy way to rationalize improbable behavior and show "grit" or faux complexity. Sadly the writers, as they wrapped the series (seasons 3 and up) didn't even rely on this crutch. They just had people do stuff out of character (Cavil a suicide? Really?) First they took the toasters and made them human, then they made them stupid, then they made some of them passive altruistic plot vehicles while others became even more cartoonish villains (after attempted genocide the whole unjustified "child in peril" was necessary? Were you losing share of women 18-34?). At one point during the finale, I thought it would've been better if the Centurions/Raiders and Colonials realized their real problem was the fucked up skinjobs and joined forces for a little genocide of their own. And what the hell was Baltar anyway? I know actors like their characters to "grow" and evolve (much more than real people do) but come on. Never mind the whole bit of "noble savage" crap and abandoning technology to play Ted Kazinski (this is also a bit of PC nonsense that echos the theme of Colonial guilt noted above). In short BSG has been like a Broadway musical: if the music were better it would be an opera and if the story were better it would be a play. I'm just feeling suckered by the whole enterprise. -
Loved this finale! It was never going to please everyone, but I loved it! So say we... er...some of us-all!
-
*head explodes*
-
their children and decencant all forgot about medecine and had to "re-discover" it a hundred thousand year after. If they had kept making new medecine or renewing the ones they had, it would not have been lost.
-
Tigh killed Ellen because he thought she was spying for the cylons. But, anyway, thanks for bringing up another WTF. When they put their hands in goo, they can read each others' minds. When they touch each other they can project. When they hear "All Along the Watchtower," they get switched on. Do you mean to tell me in all the years of gooey love-making the two booze-hounds never had the radio on?
-
could be explained away by some sort of genetical/biological memories that are passed on very faintly through the descendants.
-
Yeah, I had forgotten that little throwaway about Chief and Tory being lovers way back whenever. Maybe it was sexual frustration that made him kill her! Look, I don't really care - that scene was the only decent wow moment in the whole finale, I get it. I'm just saying it was yet another, in an endless line, moments in this show that depended on sudden character inconsistency for its shock value. That's not "brilliant" writing. That's the easiest, most cliched, cop-out in the history of story-telling.
-
"her moms couldn't be bothered to, you know, chase after her daughter when she wanders off in the middle of a battle zone" -- Um, were you watching the same episode I was?
-
Did anybody else hear that Talking Heads song "Flowers" playing in their head?
(http://tinyurl.com/th-flowers)
Or maybe it was Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World", from the nearly identical finale to the BBC-TV version of "Hitchhiker's Guide"? -
"new Earth is a random planet" -- Given that Kara's coordinates took them there, it's clearly not random.
-
A lot, so many brilliant moments, of action, of comedy, of jaw dropping surprises, and lots of just awesome TV moments. I thought the show went out with style, surprise and some heavy duty emotion.
-
as your average afternoon soap opera. 'Sall I'm sayin. One minute Erica's a bitch, next minute she's misunderstood. Next, she's conflicted. Then she sleeps with another dude. Same thing on BSG. And, I have to say it, you fan-boys turned on X-FILES, but Chris Carter was only half as lazy as Ronald Moore. And that was on his day off.
-
because when the buzz fades, this will be another "WTF was I thinking" moment in your pathetic lives. The very DEFINITION of Deus Ex Machina. No, we can't write a complex series where people work towards their own goals at corss purposes to each other. Let's just say God is trying to tell everyone what to do, fuck it. Let's just pretend an identical human species can independentally evolve on two seperate planets. Let's pretend that Kara being a ghost is a good plot twist. A ghost, meanwhile, who BEING a ghost doesn't do jack shit for. Fuck this, and fuck all of you who accept shit writing as gold.
-
Dioxholster admitting that the finale isnt so bad...and then him resuming his hate
Stargate will NEVER get a talkback. Give up your facade and admit that you were a troll who was here just for attention. -
Yeah watch it again if you don't remember. The fucking kid wanders around the corner and out of sight - which is why Sharon loses her. It's ridiculous.
-
Can you repost that with paragraph breaks?
-
Yeah it can all be explained away but the problem is is shouldn't HAVE to be. The fans shouldn't have to come up with a new genetic theory to explain this shit. Unfortunately the show has been doing that sort of thing for a while now.Anyway I don't have a particular problem with the ending; it was no more full of holes than the last season and a half or two seasons anyway.
-
There are three BSG novels out there, two of which are actually worth reading.
Sagittariius is Bleeding is an interesting story that involves a small sect of survivors who follow the Norse gods rather than the Greek ones.
The Cylons's Secret is a story set during the pre-holocaust era with a younger Adama and Tigh confronting a colony of humans and Cylons that got cut off from the Colonies after the 1st war.
Both of these are quite good, especially Sagittarius.
DO NOT read the shitfest that is Unity however, one of the worst fucking books I have ever read, absolute garbage. -
Thanks Nutsack.
-
I'm so tired of you fucking loud, whiny bitches crying every time someone mentions god. STFU already.
Science Fiction plays with the idea of higher powers all the time, be it god(s), ascended beings, 28,000 year old telepathic robots, or the ambiguous god? in BSG. Get over it you useless fucktards.
Personally I found the way they presented "god" in BSG to be very compatible with my own deist beliefs. God's out there, just not all that involved or even interested for that matter. -
to paraphrase: "There is no God. It's the primitive's answer for why the sun goes up in the morning. Can't really prove it one way or the other though."
He didn't believe in God but acknowledged the fact you couldn't completely disprove the possibility.
And as we know in the BSG universe, looks like even if he wasn't totally wrong, he was at least mostly wrong as *something* was pulling the strings. -
I enjoyed the last episode, sure they involved a lot of religious aspects and it doesn't explain everything, still I enjoyed it nonetheless. Heck, if everything was explained too much I tend to hate it. Remember when we heard in Star Wars about the Midi-chlorians? Wow, that was a read downer... it killed the mythology we've built up and loved in so many years. So far BSG has been a great thrill ride and it ended wonderfully.
-
And I had absolutely no problem with any part of a God or Gods being involved with this series throughout. It's all about suspending disbelief, I mean, it's fiction for fuck's sake. I don't believe in organic robots either, that didn't make it any less entertaining. So don't damn all the atheists.
-
...was going to destroy four seasons worth of magic in one episode? If they destroyed the beautiful mystery behind Head six and head baltar I would never see the need to rewatch an old episode. Now we can go back an still get that tingly unknown feeling every time they pop up to push things in one diretion or the other.
-
Actually, it was Ron Moore interjecting himself into the series as God. He as the writer was the one pulling the strings. This whole thing planned the way he designed it to. All the inconsistencies and deux ex machina's thrown in were pretty much he and his writings staffs handy work. Who else but him would be God of the BSG universe. It definitely made sense to me when Angel Six mentioned God at the end and Angel Baltar said something to the effect of how he hated that name or to be called that or something. For half a second I thought they would explain what that meant in the Plan or the Caprica series. Then it dawn on me. Ron Moore is responsible for it all. But that's just my opinion.
-
I thought that this ending was quite simply PERFECT in every way. The 'god' mythology has been a central part of this show since day one, and so, it would make perfect sense, that this god/s if real within the realm of BSG would manifest itself in any way it saw fit. I loved that Kara was an angel, a guide, given back to the wind after her mission was done. I'm not a crier, but I was in tears, bawling like a baby in the last 45 minutes. This show has touched my soul. Yes, there were slower episodes, and some unsatisfying things here and there, but never before have I been so engaged in television characters, and never have I witnessed these same characters unfold over the years with such visceral truth. This show was my comfort, and it's characters my family.
-
instead of caprica, i want a "in the wilds" sequel with all of our favorite characters roughing it and living in some kind of steampunk ancient world. baltar's farm! tigh's distillery! the wisened and solitary adama's magical cabin! They can organize the first thanksgiving with the local folks. come on. it'll be heartwarming.
-
as I am travelling and won't see it till later. it's been torture not reading your comments. Thought I could remain spoiler free , until I got a text message from a friend, "150,000 years in the future , fuck!". Think it's payback for when I said to him several years ago "I can't believe that Bruce Willis was a ghost"
-
Mar 21, 2009 10:39:19 PM CDT
It was a fantastic send-off for the series
by spifftacular squirrel girl
My favorite scene was awfully small compared to the giant action sequences and big mythical payoffs later on but I really liked the final scene between Roslin and Doc Cottle and seeing him choke up a little. Just a wonderful scene.
As far as Caprica goes, I'm going to give it a chance but the trailer wasn't all that impressive. Not to mention the fact that I tend to not enjoy prequels all that much. -
So, in essence, this show was all about Ron Moore?
-
But it also led to Wasteland Earth. Two Earths just seems too convenient.
-
at least in the sense that he was the "invisible force" moving them all towards a particular goal. But that's just what I took from it. Your mileage may vary...
-
The Force wasn't begging for an explanation as so much on BSG has been. In fact the Force was nicely explained in Star Wars 1. The midichlorians were unnecessary.
-
..but the core of everything else was answered in one of the most intelligently delivered ends to any show, sci-fi or otherwise. Yes Kara Thrace was the harbinger of death, she in her initial form did lead the human race to an annihilation of a former earth where she too perished. She gave them a forewarning in bringing them back to the Earth they were initially looking for, a warning of what could be if they pursued resurrection within their human/cylon collaborative society. Cheating death does not give you a true value of life, knowing that you will die makes the life you have worth more living. Having seen hat came before and with the last secret of the resurrection process dying with the loss of one of the original 5 (Tori) then the final collaboration that the key vision holders had played to its natural conclusion where the main threat to that peace as eliminated and the human race brought to a place they could begin anew.
The leader of the colonies again did not survive to live in the new world as prophecy stated. The evolution of the human race with the merging of the pinnacle of technology they create is a cycle that is in constant rotation. Each cycle the guidelines laid down by the architects of that cycle are simply followed to a inevitable conclusion but in each case something is perfected just that bit more, in this case, the human/cylon hybrid is the case and she led a generation that came to be what we are now. A human race who despite gaps in our history where great advancements of civilization and technology cannot be answered for like how the Incas and the Egyptians made Pyramids, learned to use lunar calculations etc. This human race unlike the one that perished on the old Earth has managed to avert destruction despite having reached the brink of war and creation of devastating devices to do so ten times worse than they did on the old Earth. Is that a genetic instruction that keeps us alive? Who knows, but the science and mythology they laid down in this series finale would suggest that CAPRICA will answer a few more questions even though the majority of what we needed to join the dots of the journey over the last 4 years were firmly plotted and delivered to an extremely satisfying conclusion. Kara Thrace is an instrument of the orchestrator's of the universe, be they gods or just the same extremely advanced beings that the colonies would appear to be to the natives of the new Earth in the finale if they had kept their technology. Again, this is something that obviously they intend to explain in CAPRICA and that's a good thing because a little mystery goes a long way and having all the answers takes all the wonder and desire out of a great journey.
The complaints of the use of the opera house in this talkback are those of narrow-minded cynics. The opera house is the place the Orhestra palys to those it summons. It's the place the final act is deliverd for all ho needs to se it done. Battlestar Galactica is that place and the bridge is the stage for those events. Visual metaphors are wasted on cynics of the fast food generation but thank god writers will continue to use such devices to creative examples such as BSG has done. Just like the Matrix and its sequels, this is a great tale of Mind, Body and Spirit; not for everyone and especially not for those who can only swallow their sci fi on a literal level of ship battles, gun fights and a narrow escape by the hero and his girl. Battlestar Galactica re imagined its predecessor to an absolute blinding success on a level nobody could have conceived possible. Full credit to one of the best shows ever on Television and easily the greatest SciFi show ever produced. -
I must say that the ending was awesome!! I really invested myself with the characters since the beginning of the show, through the good and bad, watching chracters grow, others die, and overall just letting the show take me to another place for an hour every week. I want to thank Ron Moore and all the cast involved with this terrific show. In some ways it helped me to reaffirm my faith, especially this last episode. I really liked how Baltar's arc ended with him finding his courage to do what's right and fulfilling his destiny. The scene at the end with him and Six was my favorite. Basically the show wrapped up everyone's acrs nicely but I can't help but feel Lee was left hanging alone. Everyone has their own opinion of how great the show is or isn't but it's been the greatest show on TV for me since the pilot. I just wish we could have more and am sad that it's ending but I am satisfied that it ended how it did by questioning our society today on where we're headed and how we can learn from out past mistakes. Thanks again to all the cast and crew involved.
By your command..... -
That's how I view the finale. It was the kind of thing that would get kicked around the writers room, or fanbois would come up with on the internet, but that nobody else would green light. It was amusing at least. Most of it was a stretch (leaving technology behind, everybody spreading out over the planet) and some of it was just laughable. It was obvious they've never had the slightest clue of how they were going to end the show. Not even in the most basic rough outline. Ah well.
-
A chronicle of the years spent on Earth II. What if Galen, after a decade or so, decided to find people again, track them down. We see how things worked out for everyone around the globe. It would probably be a heartbreaking story. Once medication ran out, a simple scratch might kill someone. I imagine Galen finding Bill Adama, laying his bones to rest beside Laura's. After a while, resentment over abandoning technology would create dissidence, power struggles, maybe even war. Maybe Galen starts losing it again, seeing what's happened to everyone.
He retreats again. Years later, alone, maybe insane, Head Six and Head Baltar drop in.
Some kind of cryptic conversation about everyone's role in getting Hera to Earth II. Hm. -
Nope, the only time Sharon loses track of Hera for a sec is when her husband's just been shot, apparently fatally. All the other times it's someone else who loses her. Watch it again.
-
I guess they waited until they wrote the last episode to bust out he hash. That was so lame. It was great up until they made the jump to Earth. Then it was just complete garbage. As if another team of writers came in and finished the episode, while they were getting high. None of it makes any sense. As for Caprica? No interest at all.
-
What do you mean by "too convenient"? Too convenient that two Earthlike planets could exist in the same galaxy? Too convenient that higher intelligences thousands of years old could know about both?
-
for what its worth if what happened to callie happened to ellen, id have done the same fracking thing... you did ty! you did!
-
Combine a) Head Leoben's remarks in the episode when Kara first disappeared/died, b) Baltar's "angels" speech an episode or two ago, and c) Kara's line to Lee this last episode about not fearing death, and the suggestion is that Kara is leading people to *accept* death as a pathway to an afterlife. (Whether said afterlife is supernatural or just a super-advanced version of cylon resurrection tech -- or whether those two options are even different -- is left to the viewer.)
-
...they would have landed on Earth a little closer to our time, say 12,000 - 15,000 years ago. That the Galactica herself would have landed in the middle of the Meditteranean and formed the basis for the Atlantis legend...and I insist you all agree that would have been pretty goddam sweet. Agree now damn you!
I think the only thing I didn't like was the idea that Bill Adama would have abandoned Lee after all of this, if there was ever a time for them to completely reconcile everything and come together as Father and Son it's when they both lost their girls.
So what happened to Husker's Viper and all the Raptors they shuttled people to the other continents with? Maybe George Lucas can rape BSG for the next Indy...please don't... -
Instead of saying "150,000 years later" it says "149,971 years later" -- and we see the Lorne Greene Galactica arriving.
-
It had some good moments, but it lost what the best things about Galactica. What was great about Galactica was that it was a realistic Sci-fi. People realistically reacted to each other and what was going on around them. What happened to that! First of all how could they convince everyone to discard all technology and not build cities? Everyone agreed? Ridiculous. And they all agreed because Apollo had this idealistic idea that he just thought of as he was walking on the green grass. Absurd! Then when Kara disappears, he just accepts it. What? The original show was more science fiction oriented in regards to the Lords of Cobal, then this finale. Sad to say! In the original the Lords of Cobal evolved to higher beings, no mention of God etc. The bit with Baltar and Caprica was nonsense! What happened to the realism and Science fiction!
-
Yeah that's the time I'm talking about. She loses track of her daughter and that's why the "vision" of the Opera House is fulfilled - kind of, because ultimately unlike in the Opera House, it's not like Six and Baltar make off with Hera taking her from Rosalind and Sharon, they just protect her for a few minutes then give her back. My point was that it was a lame vision fulfillment set into motion by Sharon doing an unrealistic thing, calling after Hera instead of grabbing the kid like any normal parent would do. Yes, even though hubby just got shot, you don't let a kid - and oh yeah the key to the human race's survival - wander off in the middle of a crazy ass firefight, under any circumstances. It's completely ludicrous. No one would do that.
-
How is it that the harbinger of death and the savior of both races somehow ended up getting the same result? I call bullshit. "Oh good we got Hera, mankind is saved. Except we're stills stuck with ol' Kara "harbinger of death" Thrace, so I guess we're fucked ... No? What's that you say?"
-
This godforsaken, misanthropic piece-of-shit show is over! Yes! Please don't let these assholes "reimagine" Buck Rogers. Let's get some actually GOOD SF shows out there.
Thanks -
BSG went from SciFi to fantasy pretty damn quick, and now that the ending boils down the whole series to the phrase, "God works in mysterious ways.", they've officially said "good bye" to science fiction on that channel. This was the kiss-off for the hard science fiction fans. This was kind of a "fuck you", to us, too.
I wanted rational explanations that were based in science, even if it's pseudo-science. All the worst Star Trek techno-babble is better than "God did it."
I'm disappointed. All this time I was watching a show that I thought would pay off and make sense in the end, and instead it LITERALLY asks me, the viewer, for a "leap of faith" and throws me a bunch of religious bullshit to sort out.
The battle (the whole first hour) was great, and then they ruined it with all this metaphysical shit that they don't even TRY to explain away in some rational sense.
"God works in mysterious ways" is ALL this episode said, and we're supposed to be satisfied with that? REALLY?
Fuck, I'm disappointed. Was it brilliant? Most of the series was, indeed, brilliant. But the ending was tailor made for people of faith, and a big slap in the face for those who wanted their science fiction show to end on a science fiction note.
The last hour was the Anti-Doug Adams. I'm insulted. -
See, at first this miserable show was funny. "Look, all the guys are ineffectual pussies! Look, humans are the disease and the fem-bots are good". Then, later: "Wait, this isn't funny anymore. They're serious. Wow. Damn, they're really ruining a great concept this way? Seriously? I'm getting all choked up. I was hoping we'd get a smart, human, fun story like Firefly, but no. No, we're getting politically correct, bullshit "allegory" written by Travis the chimp. Fuck. Goddamn it. Pass the tissue!"
But the show still made me laugh, and still brought a tear to my eye. Man am I glad it's over. -
Spare me. Joss Whedon's crap is worse than this. This ending sucked, but I'd still rather watch it than even five minutes of that pretentious, Mary Sue crap that Whedon vomits forth for his loyal minions.
-
Is Nix short for "moron" in BSG-ese? Just wondering. I hated everything Whedon's done. But Firefly was indeed a great show. To say otherwise is to pick up your mongoloid certificate.
Now, if they could only erase all evidence of that shitty Serenity film. -
Is Nix short for "moron" in BSG-ese? Just wondering. I hated everything Whedon's done. But Firefly was indeed a great show. To say otherwise is to pick up your mongoloid certificate.
Now, if they could only erase all evidence of that shitty Serenity film. -
I agree.That would have been a fine ending.Come to think of it, there's still the possibilty for that to occur. Starbuck could return again only this time with shiny new ships and new jump coordinates.With 150,000 years to play with, TPTB left much wiggle room.
-
We've got too many questions to answer, too many dangling plot threads, too many holes to fill, so fuck it. It was all God. Durrr...
-
There was no higher power other than Ron Moore and his writing staff. They were the divine hand of fate that orchestrated the events of this show. They were what Baltar was talking about when he said there was a higher power at work. At the very end I thought that angel six and angel baltar were going to break the forth wall and just tell us that. Hell, they almost did as much. It's really not that deep.
-
I thought they were going to use that one dome ship as the basis for Atlantis when they decided to settle on new earth. That would have been great. Or at least better than scattering the last 38000 colonist across a planet big enough to support billions of people. Just sayin'...
-
Be honest. The show ALWAYS sucked. So, why are you people angry that the end sucked too?
-
Season finale, not series finale. I'm hoping Rhonda shows up again, she hasn't been around for a while.
-
Actually I was sort of expecting the Galactica to burn up in earth orbit while the crew watches it shoot across the sky like a falling star from the ground ... I think one of the ST movies did something like that once. But flying into the sun worked too even if we didn't get to see all the ships burn up (budget?)
-
"...so I guess we're fucked ... No? What's that you say?" Hilarious!
-
From the first godawful episode.
-
SciFi becomes SyFy now. Can't agree more!
-
Having fun? Go watch your kinescopes of Buck Rodgers.
-
damn my graveyard shift.
-
watched it a second time, skipped over flashbacks the same as the first time, total waste of air time, took nothing away from the plot just by skipping them.
battle was good, could have been better without wasted time with flashbacks... old cylons should have been integral through it all, the cylon cival war, old vs new centurians, then we could have some empathy for the newer models of the old school models would have just been bad ass.
RDM had a serious of Lucas moments in the 3rd season, no I mean the Lucas moments that gave us parts 1 and 2.
Even has the Lucas beard. -
REally liked the finale, but thought we were short changed with the Cylon plan, kind of bummed we have to wait or the Fall for the additional movie. I wonder if this will change the perception of the show at all.
-
Nix, I'm sure I don't need to remind you that BSG has had religion as a MAJOR plot line throughout the series. To abandon that would have also been disingenuous. I've heard a lot of flack from those that think the faith aspect was a letdown and not true to the series. Naaaaaah. True to the series as the color blue. If you didn't like it, you never took the religion aspect of the show that seriously to begin with. Not that any of us really did, godsdammit. But it was there. And it seemed to suit the ending just fine. Regarding Religion in scifi, it's been a major player in science fiction since the beginning of the genre.
-
Wasn't offended by the God stuff. In fact I liked it, thought it was very tastefully done. Best television show ever.
-
but i just watched the last episode in 12 out of 13 parts. where can i find the last 7 minutes please.? so tired..think I deserve better after 4ish years of unadulterated fan loyalyty. Really between this and Who it's the only TV I watch. Pissed.
-
and prophecies from the start. It was obvious that something is happening on a spiritual level from the very first season. I'm no religious man, buf if you're pissed up for the "Some god-like force did it!" You should be pissed from the first season. What kind of explanations did you guys expect? You thought It'll be revealed Roslin is having visions of snakes because little green men are shooting her mind with special rays?
-
Holy shit, the full size Viper 7 and full size Raptor are on eBay right now. I guess wifey's car is going in the street from now on, the garage is spoken for.
-
The music Kara learned from her father, the music she played with angel-father in the bar, the tune she tapped into the FTL: NOT "All Along The Watchtower."
It's actually the "Final Five Theme," composed by show scorer Bear McCreary. It fits in with the song, for sure, and the way he weaved it into Watchtower for his cover is brilliant.
But let's give the man his due. The theme isn't found anywhere in earlier versions of the song. -
Yeah, it sounds about like that. Sorry to all the fans that got shit on. My BSG ends with teh Cylons taking over New Caprica, most of the Humans die, and we wonder what happens to the fleet that escapes. And Gidney, I forgot about the whole "we're all guilty" baltar Trial, that along with the Final five, and the silly death of Starbuck Episode (now made even more poontless that there was apparently no explanation of any of it) trashed this show beyond recognition, no amount of cool episodes, or great battle scenes can fix that much of a mess.
"SYFY" Indeed... -
history NEVER forgets the name "Battlestar Galactica"! The finale saved a lot of grace from the somwhat trainwrecked fourth season. It just couldn't repair the damage they'd done before. But as some kind of standalone motion picture quality tv-movie it had some really great moments. The whole premise stood on wounded if not broken legs, and it was clear, that THIS couldn't have been called SciFi-Show any longer. So they made some fascinating tale in their final hour about gods, drunks and decisions. Cudos to the music (and the classic AND 'alien'-references), the brilliant sfx and some of the finest acting in tv-/movie history. It doesn't suck as some want us to believe - but it's also not as fullfilling as others want us to believe. In fact - the best finale i can think of was TNG's "All Good Things...". THAT was SciFi combined with acting/music/atmosphere at it's best. NO inconsistencies! But BSG's finale was some damn emotional fine piece. Forget the answers - they were lost among the casualties along the ride to the watchtower...
-
...some genius will do a REMAKE of BSG in - let's say - 30 years from now... ? ;-)
-
It's full of stupid twats talking about fucking crap shows like Star Gate and Babylon 5. Please, they're not even in the same league as BSG.
-
Correct- Babylon 5 is in a league above battlestar Galactica, while BSG did appear to be a better show for a while, it fell behind B5 as it fell down at the end.
-
Anyone else notice that all the regular female characters died this season: Callie, Dee, Tori, Starbuck and Roslin. Only Six and Athena survived, and they're both cylons.
-
And as for the Olmos's quote.
SO SAY WE ALL!
He's one class act. -
Theres no strip joints yet. Are they going to have some neandrathal women dance naked on top of rocks for the? Did they leave booze behing on the ships as well?
-
Ok it's time someone brought this up again so you guys understand that throwing away the ships and the tech wouldn't have been much! The Galatica was broken and almost out of fuel. I didn't see the refinery ship there didn you. And well they run on some exotic mineral called Tillium. Any around here? So in essence they were almost out of fuel for everyone, the big ship had just about had it. And they were trying to get away from what had put them there in the past ( many times ). No real reason to leave space garbage in an eventually decaying orbit up there. As for giving up their comforts well that had already happened for the most part. They didn't even have a frakin tube of Tauron toothpaste! It would have been different if they had landed in force and in perfect shape. Of course earth of today would have been different as well.
-
He was all Connor McAdama from the Clan McAdama. "THERE CAN BE FRAKKIN' ONLY ONE!" Though it was Chief Tyrol to go the way of The Highlander... ;-)
-
When the Spanish showed up at the New World's doorstep the brought the smörgåsbord of death with them: smallpox, plague, influenza, measles, and a wide range of other serious infections. Set aside the fact that even with than small group of "humans" at around . . . 30 - 35k or so, they spread out all over the planet to interrupt this 2nd Earth's natural evolution. Sure, all speculation and conjecture on a story that is wrapped, but its interesting the implications of starting new. And, what about that one teeny tiny base ship out there? Will they become the UFOs we see in the night sky?
-
.. there i said it
-
As for you. I'm almost 56 and have read Science Fiction since I was in 3rd grade so I think I know a thing or two about the subject. Religion has been part of SF for a long time. I'm not particularly religious myself but I know the subject's been brought up before. All through the series it's been obvious that something unusual has been working behind the scenes. Also they didn't say it was the " God " that we are familure with. As a matter of fact from the last line " You know he doesn't like that name ". So it's just a powerful something. The universe is a vast place. Room for all sorts of things. I really don't have a problem with that. And yes I am pissed about the SciFi channel name change. I like the end and it resolved things in a way that I thought they couldn't. Do I have questions? Sure! But I always do.
-
Well they didn't say it was the native population that led to us. They did indicate it was Hera and her kind that did. They said they could breed with them but 150,000 years is a long time. maybe none of the locals survived.
-
Thanks again Ronald D. Moore and co.
-
This show has very loosely followed the general plot line of the original BSG. So this is their way of dealing with the " Ship Of Lights " Aliens or whatever they were. They were also ambiguous. They weren't fully explained either. But they were powerful and behind the scenes as well.
-
Awesome ending. So this is what yoy get when you give the creators the change to actually end a series...
-
The complainers have the dumbest excuses...
1. How can there be two Earths!!!??111??!Well, let's see...obviously there have been several "Earth"-type class M planets in the show. The 12 colonies themselves, Kobol, New Caprica, Algea Planet (Temple with the Eye of Jupiter), Cylon Earth, and finally our "Earth". Which equal 17 inhabitable planets seen in the series.2. "A rose is but a rose..."So you're complaining about "Earth". Adama even said it, "Earth" was the legend, the goal, what everyone wanted. It was a concept that came true...hence why they called the planet "Earth". Obviously, we were misdirected as an audience. Kudos to RDM and writing staff.The tools here complaining are the same guys who want to "anal"lyze and heckle the magician during the show.3. Too many of you have George Lucas syndrome.Many of you might wonder what "George Lucas Syndrome" is...it is an afflication of assuming the following formulas in modern crap sci-fi and writing:A. A cool character's backstory must intersect/intertwine with each other. i.e...Anakin built 3PO. Craptastic....all of you wanted fucking the off-hand mention of Daniel to be Starbuck or Starbuck's father. Good job pretentious sci-fiers! Why would you want such convoluted crap?!?!4.Someone mentioned the including of religion ruined the series and quoted BSG as not sci-fi, but fantasy the anti-Doug Adams. Doug Adams writes atheatic satire. He uses false logic to show that "God" doesn't exist. Since for most readers (young teenage boys) his novels are their first introduction to logic, they blindly follow. i.e...His Santa Claus dilemma in which he tries to disprove God. It is a logically fallacy because as a scientist, you would willing want to follow Scientific Method to prove that something does or does not exist. So logically, if we do not have the information to prove a higher power or different type of life-form exists, you do not declare that it does not exist, you would need to collect further data. So, the results would be inconclusive.5. Do not confuse religion with God or a higher power. Religion is a man-made groups set up for worship. In Hebrew, "church" means a gathering or group of people. Just because some of you have a negative outlook at organized religion, doesn't mean the possiblity of a higher life-form or being doesn't exist. The belief of that existance in itself is part of science/science-fiction.BSG does outclass shows like B5 and Stargate. Spoonfed crap scifi that are still trying to ride off the Star Wars/Star Trek teet drained so many years ago. Just because it doesn't fit your narrow view of what is "sci-fi" doesn't mean it isn't good or great even...maybe it means you should look at yourself - if you can pull away from watching 'Dr. Who' or 'Starship Troopers 3' for two seconds. -
And Hera dies as a child? Her only significance being proof of the "missing link."
?????????????????????????????????????????
Btw, I predicted this ending several seasons ago. Good ending to a great show. Don't know if I quote buy that the fleet would vote to send their ships into the sun and start over as a primitive agrarian society, but, it was still cool. The flash forward 150,000 years was the best part of the ending... -
B5 or DS9....
-
Where in the finale episode did any of that explanation come up? It didn't. It is left to the audience to fill in gapping wholes with some sort of explanation and justification for why something was done. That is emblematic of a flaw in the narrative. And even with your explanation, it wasn't obvious to the people in the fleet. The answer to why it was so easy that they would give up on the technology was something like, you can't underestimate the power of the desire for a new start. Not, anything like we can't salvage any technology even if we wanted to; what a fracking shame! Also, because of Apollo's all of sudden back to nature, let's run in the woods naked idea, they were not going to build any cities. The show itself has to be judged on its own internal logic or lack of it, not on the explanation that the audience attempts to supply it with.
-
I'm so glad I stopped watching after season 3. I PVR'd this just to see how it ended and well, I feel bad for the folks who stuck with it.
Lets see...
1. Kara just "Pop" disappears, Lee just shrugs it off, no real look of anguish or anything. The person he loved just disappeared into thir air, he doesn't know why and doesn't seem to care...fucking Brilliant!!!
2. Adama Sr. Gets in the aircraft with the dying President and Lee waives him off..."goodbye daddy"!!! Why does he leave his only son, and build a cabin and never see him again....But of course no one is upset about this....fucking Brilliant!!!
Why am I not surprised that the In-Heads(I love that name, because they were never givin a proper name because PEOPLE STILL DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE!!!
Usually an ending explains stuff, that's why we all watched the last show. Now we have a talkback full of questions without proper answers.
Oh well, at least Lost is going someplace during the last couple of seasons.
-
I'm a bit flabbergasted at the reactions to the inclusion of a god or a higher power in this series. Dune, one of the greatest science fiction tales is riddled with a higher power, a prophecy, and unexplained phenomena. The X files series also toyed heavily with God moving and doing things mysteriously. Theology and science fiction have always been closely related, and I believe good science fiction isn't so much about the science, it's about the story. ALIEN wasn't great because of the space ships, or even the creature itself. ALIEN was great because of the story of regular people trapped in an irregular circumstance. Why can we suspend our disbelief for things like FTL drives and human-like robots and yet not believe that God is also an integral part of this same universe?
-
Like, say, the Galactica was the only ship to survive and they crashed on Earth. Maybe they would be left with some technology, but most of it would be hopelessly useless or beyond repair. The remaining humans and cylons are then FORCED to restart as a kind of primitive agrarian society.
I really enjoyed the ending, and really like the show, but I have to admit that I find it hard to believe that all of those people/cylons would just vote to get rid of all their technology. More likely they would start over with as much technology as they could salvage and build on that.Still, that quibble aside, i really liked the final episode... -
This talkback is missing the point on religious themes in BSG. Religion and conflict over religion is one of the central themes in BSG. One of the prime movers in the plot line is the monotheist skinjobs vs the polytheist Colonials. Cavil may have had other motives, but the other skinjobs (the true believers in the one-true-god-of-the-Cylons) were down for the holocaust of the Colonies because they believed them to be pagans and heretics. This hatred over *religious beliefs* was the trigger in the latest cycle of "all this has happened before..." and was the whole starting point of the show.
-
and just because BSG had a great ending doesnt mean its a shitty show. its the most disgusting thing to have ever appeared on Television. I spit at the fool how watches it.
-
and just because BSG had a great ending doesnt mean its a NOT shitty show. its the most disgusting thing to have ever appeared on Television. I spit at the fool how watches it.
-
It seems like Galactica is your religion. I think that some of the criticisms people are making are valid. And it is OK to criticize a TV show. Don't worry, a difference of option is OK. I loved the show, but the ending was disappointing because it had major flaws. Having God be the agent behind everything, is simply a cop out. Weather God actually exists in the world of Galactica shouldn't matter one why or the other. That should have remained in background but never in the foreground. The answer that God did it all isn't an answer. It would have made more sense have "Angle" Baltar and "Angle" Caprica being higher evolved "humans" that went through the same process of the "Cylon" vs. "human" conflict and resolved it, then were attempting to aid other "humans" to end the cycle. They could have been the original "humans." That is at least is an answer.
-
BSG easily won in production quality and a few individual scenes, but as a whole Babylon 5 was a much tighter, much better series. The B5 characters were much more complex and conflicted without resorting to the "WTF is going on?" ambiguity of BSG and Lost. B5 laid it all out on the table from the pilot and wove it together throughout the series in a masterfully desined plan. BSG just had the writers throwing out red herrings each season and figuring out how to tie it together the next season. They did it well, but it can't match B5.and SG-1 does not even need to be in this discussion. Beyond the first two or three season, you might as well be talking about ST Voyager as far as SG-1's quality.
-
What we mind is that EVERY SINGLE PLOT POINT was tied up with the DIRECT INFLUENCE of a real higher power. In the end, nothing anybody did in the show mattered, because they were being controlled by this force that popped "angels" into existence, resurrected "Starbuck the White", and guided them to the Holy Land so they could start over. No explanations to ANYTHING mattered, because it all boiled down to "God works in mysterious ways."
I can deal with some ambiguity. That's fine. I can deal with super-science or pseudo-science. That's acceptable. But coming right out and saying to the audience, "You have to make a leap of faith" and then having everyone act completely out of character for 40 minutes ("Oh, sure! We'll abandon all our technology even though half a season ago we were willing to commit treason to hang onto our way of life"), while major characters are revealed to be legitimate disappearing-reappearing supernatural beings? It drags the show TOTALLY out of the realm of science fiction and into religious fantasy.
What's more it was that they didn't bother to make ANY of the resolution about science, and just answered every single question with a Deus Ex Machina.
Finally, if you want to talk about acting WAY out of character, how could Tigh and Adama NOT end up living near each other after all these years of damn near dying for one another, and all the references to their friendship? How could they go separate ways and not say ONE DAMN WORD TO EACH OTHER in the process?
No, I don't accept this as a proper ending. This was a panic ending. This was "It's magic. We don't have to explain it."
I'm sure Joe Quesada LOVED this ending. -
I was with your wife yesterday, she got on her knees and i made her watch stargate for 3 hours straight! MoHaha! and she loved it and she asked for more! how does that feel? do u feel betrayed? I know stargate issnt for the masses, its only for the people with an exquisite taste but it will get a talkback and you will watch it to cleanse your head from all that BSG watching in the past.
-
My reaction was mostly positive.
Was amazed at how well they pulled off the battle scenes, very intense, definetely some of the best I have seen in recent history.
Also the tension, and the apprehension in the scenes before they jumped, felt like I was there, ready to go into battle.
The flashbacks were interesting, but not compelling for me, though geez Roslin looked hot as "Mrs Robinson".
On the flashbacks, I was not a huge fan of the previous episode, but watched it again as the lead in to Friday night's ep, Daybreak Part 1 definetely works much better this way and can understand RDM's concerns about splitting it up.
On the Starbuck explanation front it did feel a bit weak, but was reasonable. I agree with some comments from others its not important whether the "it" is a god, or an advanced Alien race (like one of the TB comments with the reference to Valis, great book). I dont think we need all the mysteries solved, to understand her purpose, we saw it.
The ending, the landing on Earth was pretty good for me, well done, the choice to disregard technology would not have been easy, but you can understand to some extent that these people in an extreme situation may make what we see as an extreme choice.
I would have preferred to see it end with either Adama looking out to the wilderness next to Roslin's grave or with Hera.
The choice to show 150,000 years in the future for me was bad one. Up till this point (for the most part)BSG was at a level above most Sci-fi TV, much more intelligent, real, gritty and not "silly" (need a better word to describe that). The scene of RDM looking at the magazine in Times Square NY, the robot shots, the chat between "angel/demon" Baltar and Caprica 6 was "silly", dumbed it down to an audience, that they had expected a level of intelligence for 5 years.
I am ranting too much about what I didnt like, its human nature sorry.
But overall I loved it, will miss this series. Thanks to RDM and the team. RDM and the gang please continue to make great TV, to not only entertain us, but to challenge us as well. -
Already explained that! You'll have to go back and read agin. Rememebr he talked to his father about how our old way of doing things wasn't working. It's led to disaster many times. I guess you didn't pay attention to that part. Plus they've made it clear that they didn't have much left in the way of " Creature comforts " ( that's why I mentioned the toothpaste ) and Tillium that's common knowlege in the series that they've talked about several times. Do you see any of that around here? I don't.
-
American book are ten times better than your foreign crap. fuck your alien philosophy.
-
You are one committed, hmmm, was going to say troll, but trolls really don't have your level of committment.
Anyway thanks for the laughs, you are to Stargate, what Stephen Colbert is to the Republican party. -
And another thing. I don't like everything to be explained for me. That leeds to technobabble in SF because we just don't know about the particulars of knowlege beyongd our own. I like to think.
I'm guess you didn't like 2001 also! You know they originally planned a narration by Orson Wells. Thank god they cut it! -
And another thing. I don't like everything to be explained for me. That leeds to technobabble in SF because we just don't know about the particulars of knowlege beyond our own. I like to think.
I'm guess you didn't like 2001 also! You know they originally planned a narration by Orson Wells. Thank god they cut it! -
Just a few points:
X-Files was always about the supernatural, not science fiction. That's a different genre entirely. Because the show started out with the premise being "unexplained phenomena" we, as an audience, were capable of making those leaps of faith required of us. We weren't led to believe there would be solid answers; We were always under the impression that the big reveal would be that "something" is out there.
Dune is not hard sci-fi, but even so I don't believe there's any point where a higher power pops intangible angels and resurrected saviors into being and we're expected to accept their presence as the explanation for EVERYTHING in the story.
ALIEN was not science fiction. It has a science fiction backdrop, but ALIEN is a pretty straightforward horror movie. And again, the BSG-ending equivalent for ALIEN would have been if Ripley were in the escape pod, and realized that the reason she got out was because MOTHER was really not a computer, but an Angel sent by God to guide her out of the ship.
There's a huge difference between having religious elements in a scifi story ("Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" is a good example of good execution) and having religion be the catch-all answer for all the major plot points in your up-until-now science fiction tale.
Imagine if Star Trek III had ended with Kruge shooting himself in the head, the Enterprise crew landing on Genesis safely thanks to Spock's influence, and Spock saying, "My work here is done. God is calling me back now." and then winking out of existence.
That's what happened here. -
It demonstrates that the cycle has not ended, and, in fact, WILL NOT end -- at least not for a long, long, looooooong time. "It has happened before and it will happen again."
-
B5 was a great show. Totally of a different type. All planned out like a book from beginning to end. I really don't know why people set these two up against each other like they were heavy weight contenders or something. It had a differnt story to tell. Chock full o' aliens where as BSG they were almost unseen. And if you wanted another intelligence in the show you got it at the end. Both great shows that had big ships of science fiction with fighters. That's where the similarity ends.
-
From what I saw they were hopeful at the end ( that's why it was essential ). It showed that according to logic something different may happen.
-
is, as even per Moore and Eick, the higher power and its "angels" basically act with no rhyme nor reason. They can be helpful, they can impede, they can be good, evil, whatever. The idea of higher powers manipulate events is neutered if their manipulation is so random. And it's random, of course, because the writers didn't make up their minds until too late in the game to have it make much sense. In that way, it's funny, a kind of malfunctioning deus ex machina. If God does anything for anyone for any reason and to achieve any result, it just adds to the mess.
-
I didn't have a major problem with it but the idea that seeing a trumpet playing robot will send a chill down anyone's spine is pretty silly.
-
and you are to Shit, what Shit is to Shit.
-
Have you done much SF reading? Read some Ray Bradbury. That's considered SF and is laced with religous aspects.
-
Could've been a bit more of an interventionist God when the Cylons nuked Caprica and wiped out most of humanity.
Would've made crap telly though. -
Can kind of see your point, but for me the ending pre the 150,000 year leap, gave some resolution to their stories, and also provided a unknown future, a future of hope or a future of the same mistakes being made again. I think there is a balance between an ending like Soprano's and ending like the one we saw.
-
Without you, this TB would not be the same.
-
I agree with your review 100% They should not have ended it with the 150 thousand years bull. To me they really dumbed it down in the last few minutes. Other than that it was a great ending to a great show. Too bad we have morons out there like my son dickholder trying to ram that shit show Stargate down our throats thinking we're going to waste our time watching generic shit like that. If only I used that coathanger those many years ago to weed out that garbage mutating in my belly. So Say We All!!!
-
what did you think of the religious references in BSG before this current season? I'm curious to know. Star Trek really didn't address religion much at all, certainly not as a major topic or plot point throughout the series. BSG certainly has. As far as religion in SciFi....geez, for every book you mention that doesn't have it, I'm sure I could name another that does.
-
The Golden Compass trilogy thing was written by an atheist and it had God, angels and all that, mainly because he wanted to bash religion but still.
-
Kind of like the "loving" god of the Old Testament in the bible,who according to the Bible killed all of Earth's population, excluding Noah and his family, and two of each species, because he didn't like how his "creations" had become.
-
When am I going to get to see Grace Park nude ? She is freaking smoking hot.
-
Adama, Lee, Kara Thrace...
That is brilliant. Oh, and I like the ending in NY. It was fun and solidified the fact that they are our ancestors. -
Mar 22, 2009 10:43:59 AM CDT
Think most Sci-fi deals with free will v destiny, being manipula
by miyamoto_musashi
Whether is "god"/"gods" in BSG, the Vorlons and the Shadow in B5, More advanced lifeforms like the Q and wormhole aliens of DS9, to that book I reffered to earlier Valis. For humans its a huge question/issue, if not the biggest and think most Sci-fi explores it.
-
Re: Nix_Cadavre. I don't really buy your super narrow distinctions about different sci fi shows. Seems to me any show can play with different elements of philosophy, religion, and science.
I am with you on the plot-hole of Old Man Adama just going off to be a hermit. After such a trauma of the Fall of the Colonies and then 4 years of almost constant war, why wouldn't Papa and son Adama at least stay close to each other. And, as you said, how could Tigh and Adama just drop off from each other? That was almost as hard to fit into the story as Kara vanishing into thin air. Those two plot points really took me out of the story. -
Actually, that makes BSG god less nasty than OT god, being that the cylons were unleashing the nukes rather than him. BSG god was probably doing something else when it all went pear shaped and then stepped in at the last moment later, after all the hard work had been done.
-
u need rehabilitation, go see a therapist. oh and tell him to fix ur brain by ramming his dick into ur mouth. at least thats what worked for your mother.
-
Thanks for the comments, and yes your son is a charming man, one in a million, ... no, one in 6 billion.
-
...in the Highway to Heaven reboot. Either that or a reboot of the PAul Hogan classic "Almost an Angel"
-
The first two seasons of BSG set a grand stage, largely based on mystery as a central plot device, but it ultimately failed to deliver. The writers were unable to knit together the various plot elements that kept the audience in suspense and in place, other than by resorting to "deus ex machina" in the final episode... BSG, I'll remember you fondly ... and try to forget the last 30 minutes of the finale.
-
Being the BSG god, no doubt knocking back a few (I thought I enjoyed a drink until I started watching this show).
-
For frack's sake! Of course science fiction can have religious elements, and of course it can be ambiguous.
The problem wasn't that there were religious themes, the problem was that the characters didn't overcome their problems BY THEMSELVES. This is what drama is all about!
No, instead of characters overcoming problems, what do we get?
*Pop* Oh look, there's a planet for us, let's call it Earth-2! Thanks, God! Thanks for solving all our problems in one fell swoop! Why didn't you do it sooner?
*Pop* Oh look, Starbuck's disappeared. Now that God's work is done, there's no point to her, so let's have God make her disappear!
Tigh wouldn't have been happy to leave the new Earth undefended from Cavil's remaining basestars that are out there. HE ACTED OUT OF CHARACTER.
Adama wouldn't have said goodbye to his son. HE ACTED OUT OF CHARACTER.
The quorum argued and argued over every little thing, and now all 30,000 people suddenly agree to abandon technology. THE COLONY PEOPLE ACTED OUT OF CHARACTER.
IT'S A FRACKING PIECE OF CRAP.
-
That's no way to talk to your mother.
-
they never addressed it directly but they always hinted at how important religion is, ironically they also labeled other people's Gods as false Gods. so i would say it has a christian and american values theme to it.
-
At first it kind of bothered me that Adama would choose to leave Lee and Kara...but then I think about his complete spiral into self-destruction this last year. The only thing keeping him together was his ship and Roslin...now both are gone. He's a broken man who didn't really believe in Earth to begin with.
-
shes not my mom, shes someone else's mom. can someone ban that buffoon?
-
A famous quote of Clarke's: "One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion."
-
Mar 22, 2009 11:07:45 AM CDT
True! I'm A Stone Cold Atheist, & I Love Religious Themes
by laserpants
I love mythology too. I think theres a truth to all of them, largely in subtext, but that theres no actual magical man who lives in the sky. I think thats just a creation of our own minds. Perhaps there are higher evolutions of consciousness; intelligences far more advanced then our own. Perhaps we are the avatars of that consciousness; but there is no "intelligent designer", there is no mad space god, there's just the Universe endlessly re-experiencing itself and every exponentially spiraling paradox that eternal cosmic whammy entails forever and ever amen...
-
It started as a slow guilty pleasure, then developed into some great SciFi. It's such a shame that Straczynski didn't pull the plug earlier. The whole build up to the Shadow war was excellent. I especially liked the way that the alien species were handled.
Alas, I saw the Tv movies that succeeded it, and didn't like them at all. -
I should be banned? You hate BSG, you never watched it regularly. Why the hell are you posting in this TB then? I can't speak for everyone but I will not watch Stargate. I have a sneaking suspicion that many people here won't either so stop trying to recruit viewers. It's generic sci fi crap. Give it up already! And for Gods sake stop wearing my makeup!
-
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
it all can be explained by science. if u watched stargate you would know that. Stargate also has a religious/spiritual elements like concepts of Ascension, where you become part of the universe, in order to reach that you can either do it through science like the Ancients or through spiritual religious stuff like the Ori, who are evil gods btw coz they like controlling people's minds. anyway you get the point. -
I pray each night that I don't have to watch that shit in my lifetime. So far it is working.
-
Good point regarding the Quorum. But Moore has stated that the cylon ship was completely destroyed, gone. So Tigh wasn't worried.
-
Or are you just messing around? I'm assuming the Stargate thing is a joke too, or are you serious? Not flaming you or anything, to each his own and all that, I'm just curious.
-
i'll put an arrow up ur butt if i have to. Stargate will be one of the few things remembered from the 21st century. people in the future will be studying it in school so dont mock it fool.
-
It isn't working....no-one is buying your plug for SGU, they might not even watch it at all now that you have become a representative of the small fanbase. What a great example!
The fact that this talkback is proof enough that your argument is flawed. If you want one for SGU why don't you just fucking email AICN.
Now go fuck yourself. -
Seems to me that the speech about god leading them there kept it pretty firmly in the zone of "a force of nature." Nothing mystical or outside the natural laws of the universe; not something supernatural, but a part of the ever-evolving Universe, of which they -- the humans and cylons -- are striving forces and crucial intelligences.
-
Right, and Starbuck's and Angel and Ellen was the "final" Cylon was the apex of great writing. Please.
-
Right, and Starbuck's and Angel and Ellen was the "final" Cylon was the apex of great writing. Please.
-
He's just winding people up, and it's quite amusing. He loves BSG, which is why he is camped out on here, but he is bitter that Stargate isn't going to get a talkback like this one.
-
I understand that the cylon colony was destroyed, but I'm pretty sure there are still some enemy baseships out there. The Galactica knew where the colony's single jump point was, because they watched the baseships jumping in and out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
-
is it so hard to imagine someone who loves Stargate more than anything else? omg, have you seen it? its incredible. it totally changed my attitude towards TV. right now, i watch shows like 24, fringe, Bones, Dollhouse, House, etc-- and all they do is make me appreciate stargate more, its like there is a void now. All these TV shows lack the magic that stargate has. plus they aint as fun to watch, they feel like homework, just waiting for the good parts. and BSG is a real stinker btw.
-
I agree with you 100%- the show went off track after S.3- the writers set up so well and when they had to move on to the rest of the story- crash and burn, the more I think about it, it's the same feeling I had about the Matrix-the first movie was so good, and then when asked to show the rest of Neo's story-fell flat on it's face- and BSG and Matrix both had the "it's happened before" theme- which apparently means, great first act(s) end with horrible endings on shows where man fights robots and we are force fed the "aren't we all the same"/ "arent we all guilty" BS.
And hey- what the "F" ever happened to the Cylons living on the 12 colonies that they nuked out? Was this ever addressed at all? Did everyone stop caring about getting revenge for the 15 billion dead- killed by the Cylons? Oh yeah that is what the characters used to care about, that's so 3 years ago. -
Hey- WHAT THE "F" happened to www DOT JUMPTHESHARK DOT COM???? There were some great criticisms on Battle star galactica on there, and now it's like FREAKING PEOPLE MAGAZINE? Has anyone seen this travesty?
-
Re: OscarBoss. Yeah, now that you mention Adama's break-down(s), I can see him wanting his space.
The issue I have is that it didn't seem in-character for the Adama we've watched for 4 years. The "series Adama" wouldn't have made the choices that "series finale Adama" made. Also it seemed such a strange and illogical choice for anyone to make. It didn't seem like a choice a father would make to abandon his only living relative, when there were so few intact families left, much less the choice that the only leader that the Colonials have left would make. Just seemed like too big of a leap, and that leap was jarring, for me. -
im camped out here because BSG affected stargate. if it werent for BSG, we'd still have SG-1 and Atlantis but nooooooooo people gotta see starbuck choke a bitch instead.
-
The same way that Michael Bolton and Kenny G rock. The Stargate movie absolutely sucked, and subsequently everything Stargate-related has gotten consistently worse since that point. That show is cop-out to the nth level.
-
I'm pretty sure Thunderbolt Ross means it's ridiculous that the child just keeps running away from whoever holds her at any particular time. Just as it's ridiculous that she cries out for "Boomer" instead of mommy, considering Boomer just had her locked in a trunk. Just as it's ridiculous how quickly Tigh dumped Caprica after she miscarried. Just as ridiculous all the cult of Baltar crap was. Just as ridiculous as Chief never growing any man parts over however many years. Just as ridiculous as forgiving every single other repentant Cylon except Boomer. Just as ridiculous as way the whole concept of The Final Five played out. Just as ridiculous as Anders bald cap or Mary McDonell trying to muster that third facial expression. You CAN love this show. You CAN even be moved by it. You CANNOT say it wasn't ridiculous. Regularly.
-
Funny, though! Haha!
-
Didn't get Baltars speech? This entity or whatever didn't invent good or evil. We did. Free choice. It's up to us in the end as it should be. I like the guy in the talkback here who says that his of God ( which by the way once again they didn't tie this all down to the judeo christian version of God )
-
One in keeping with the themes of the show and the progressive thrust of science fiction. Not angels but evolved beings resulting from the ultimate cylon-human "hybridization." That's frakking insanely brilliant. I don't think it would solve all the series many, many, many flaws, but, kudos, aggieyesno. If only you were writing for Hollywood!!!!!
-
the original stargate movie was a great blockbuster. at first i thought the TV show will never match that and will suck but i was so wrong, the TV show out-triumphed it and opened up a whole new universe for me. it really pushed the envelope.
-
agnosticyesno's ending is a stargate atlantis rip-off. dont rip-off stargate, when all u have to do is watch it instead. and throw BSG to the wolves.
-
I didn't say he was evil, just lazy. A lazy, lazy ol' BSG god.
-
...and loving it.
It would not surprise me at all if they made a movie now, on the back of this successful show. I'm still reeling over the fact that they want to remake this again.
I'd much prefer a Stargate 2 starring Kurt Russel, and James Spader. -
There are many atheists and agnostics who have thought very deeply about religion and continue to, throughout their experience, despite the labels. There are many Christians who never give spirituality a second thought past spoonfed Sunday school lessons. Both groups have among them, closed-minded jackasses who hold their individual tenet as absolutely true. But only one group has been responsible for mass genocide across history. The story of BSG became the story of a transition from a multi-theistic faith to faith in one God. That's not science fiction - that's religion. Nothing wrong with it. Personally, after all the shit the characters went through, I think it would've been a more challenging ending to see what happens to a race that loses all faith altogehter. I like dark, speculative, scary, not silver-lined, clumsily resolved, silly. "Oh, you're not really there after all? Oh, ok, I'll just stand here while the music swells. Then I'll go climb a mountain."
-
I agree with the first half of what you said.
-
is out-of-character. Which, as I've been saying, is completely in keeping with the lack of character throughout the entire show. Show has depended entirely on people who are shown to do one thing in a situation doing the exact opposite thing in the next and then back again. Now, it is true that real people are inconsistent. That actions are influenced by situations. But if it were constant back-and-forth pendulum swinging, no human would ever grow in any sense. That may be why so many of these characters' endings come across as shallow. You get the feeling that next week they just change their minds.
-
James Spader said stargate was his biggest regret. lol yeah look at him now. no, a better movie would be Stargate SG-1 theatrical release, and thats what the producers are aiming for. every time they beg MGM to greenlight them a serenity-like movie for SG-1 but they tell them; "maybe later"
-
There is no hell but Wall Street, Sonny Jim.
-
Don't you see what a complete joke you are on here? Nobody cares what you have to say. You have proved many times on here that you are a useless troll trying to get a rise out of people. Go watch your little stargate and leave the grown-ups alone. I thought I raised you better..
-
This is what's called a false dillema. The only two choices are not God or No God in sci fi. I think that seriously involving a metaphysical element in an otherwise "hard" SF setting can and HAS been made very interesting, Dune series for one. So it's not either or. It's that the way it was handled in BSG is SHIT. It's simply used to fill in gaps when the writers have no idea how to create compelling motivations for its characters or plots that drive them. Once God is introduced into BSG as a concrete reality, the writers took license to just do any old shit they wanted to do. A genetically identical species evolving on a completely different planet? Why not, it's God. Kara is a ghost? God. By the way, a ghost who is as clueless as everyone else so the fact of her BEING a ghost doesn't actually mean anything? Check. Check and triple check. God in this series has not been used to enlighten, entertain or add moral or ethical complexities to the plot, it has been used like a hammer to bash away plot incongruities, force character motivation where there was none and just generally drive the show to the conclusion, rather like shoving an engine up a birds ass instead of designing it to fly naturally. A plot twist is not plot by itself. Having characters flail spastically trying to figure out the significance of small bits of information garnered in dreams, only to find they all fit some sort of situational puzzle that isn't apparent till the last moments of the last episode is not entertainment, its a waste of time. And to top it off, a SF show that has the balls to fall back into that old anti-modern stand by of "we'll start over, no technology so that blah blah we'll be better blah." That's just luddite shit. I'm no extreme technologist, but only a moron would be anti-tech or anti science in an era where, at least in technologically advanced countries, birth rates are high, people live longer healthier and happier lives because of technology. Science and technology are two of the ulimate expressions of the positive aspects of the human spirit. Why was Star Trek, a TV show made more than 40 years, able to get that right, and a show made in the 21st century get is so fucking wrong. Fuck BSG.
-
This is what's called a false dillema. The only two choices are not God or No God in sci fi. I think that seriously involving a metaphysical element in an otherwise "hard" SF setting can and HAS been made very interesting, Dune series for one. So it's not either or. It's that the way it was handled in BSG is SHIT. It's simply used to fill in gaps when the writers have no idea how to create compelling motivations for its characters or plots that drive them. Once God is introduced into BSG as a concrete reality, the writers took license to just do any old shit they wanted to do. A genetically identical species evolving on a completely different planet? Why not, it's God. Kara is a ghost? God. By the way, a ghost who is as clueless as everyone else so the fact of her BEING a ghost doesn't actually mean anything? Check. Check and triple check. God in this series has not been used to enlighten, entertain or add moral or ethical complexities to the plot, it has been used like a hammer to bash away plot incongruities, force character motivation where there was none and just generally drive the show to the conclusion, rather like shoving an engine up a birds ass instead of designing it to fly naturally. A plot twist is not plot by itself. Having characters flail spastically trying to figure out the significance of small bits of information garnered in dreams, only to find they all fit some sort of situational puzzle that isn't apparent till the last moments of the last episode is not entertainment, its a waste of time. And to top it off, a SF show that has the balls to fall back into that old anti-modern stand by of "we'll start over, no technology so that blah blah we'll be better blah." That's just luddite shit. I'm no extreme technologist, but only a moron would be anti-tech or anti science in an era where, at least in technologically advanced countries, birth rates are high, people live longer healthier and happier lives because of technology. Science and technology are two of the ulimate expressions of the positive aspects of the human spirit. Why was Star Trek, a TV show made more than 40 years, able to get that right, and a show made in the 21st century get is so fucking wrong. Fuck BSG.
-
This is what's called a false dillema. The only two choices are not God or No God in sci fi. I think that seriously involving a metaphysical element in an otherwise "hard" SF setting can and HAS been made very interesting, Dune series for one. So it's not either or. It's that the way it was handled in BSG is SHIT. It's simply used to fill in gaps when the writers have no idea how to create compelling motivations for its characters or plots that drive them. Once God is introduced into BSG as a concrete reality, the writers took license to just do any old shit they wanted to do. A genetically identical species evolving on a completely different planet? Why not, it's God. Kara is a ghost? God. By the way, a ghost who is as clueless as everyone else so the fact of her BEING a ghost doesn't actually mean anything? Check. Check and triple check. God in this series has not been used to enlighten, entertain or add moral or ethical complexities to the plot, it has been used like a hammer to bash away plot incongruities, force character motivation where there was none and just generally drive the show to the conclusion, rather like shoving an engine up a birds ass instead of designing it to fly naturally. A plot twist is not plot by itself. Having characters flail spastically trying to figure out the significance of small bits of information garnered in dreams, only to find they all fit some sort of situational puzzle that isn't apparent till the last moments of the last episode is not entertainment, its a waste of time. And to top it off, a SF show that has the balls to fall back into that old anti-modern stand by of "we'll start over, no technology so that blah blah we'll be better blah." That's just luddite shit. I'm no extreme technologist, but only a moron would be anti-tech or anti science in an era where, at least in technologically advanced countries, birth rates are high, people live longer healthier and happier lives because of technology. Science and technology are two of the ulimate expressions of the positive aspects of the human spirit. Why was Star Trek, a TV show made more than 40 years, able to get that right, and a show made in the 21st century get is so fucking wrong. Fuck BSG.
-
This is what's called a false dillema. The only two choices are not God or No God in sci fi. I think that seriously involving a metaphysical element in an otherwise "hard" SF setting can and HAS been made very interesting, Dune series for one. So it's not either or. It's that the way it was handled in BSG is SHIT. It's simply used to fill in gaps when the writers have no idea how to create compelling motivations for its characters or plots that drive them. Once God is introduced into BSG as a concrete reality, the writers took license to just do any old shit they wanted to do. A genetically identical species evolving on a completely different planet? Why not, it's God. Kara is a ghost? God. By the way, a ghost who is as clueless as everyone else so the fact of her BEING a ghost doesn't actually mean anything? Check. Check and triple check. God in this series has not been used to enlighten, entertain or add moral or ethical complexities to the plot, it has been used like a hammer to bash away plot incongruities, force character motivation where there was none and just generally drive the show to the conclusion, rather like shoving an engine up a birds ass instead of designing it to fly naturally. A plot twist is not plot by itself. Having characters flail spastically trying to figure out the significance of small bits of information garnered in dreams, only to find they all fit some sort of situational puzzle that isn't apparent till the last moments of the last episode is not entertainment, its a waste of time. And to top it off, a SF show that has the balls to fall back into that old anti-modern stand by of "we'll start over, no technology so that blah blah we'll be better blah." That's just luddite shit. I'm no extreme technologist, but only a moron would be anti-tech or anti science in an era where, at least in technologically advanced countries, birth rates are high, people live longer healthier and happier lives because of technology. Science and technology are two of the ulimate expressions of the positive aspects of the human spirit. Why was Star Trek, a TV show made more than 40 years, able to get that right, and a show made in the 21st century get is so fucking wrong. Fuck BSG.
-
for the mutliple posts, accident. im a douche bag too i guess
-
Sometimes, if what you are syaing is smart enough, it bears repeating.
-
I want to see Adama making hot monkey love to some primate and spawning a new race of awesome space cap'ns.
-
very kind. ty
-
Chaka says, "UGANZA!"
-
Poor Trekkie, SG, SW, and whatever other turd scifi series fan has to deal with BSG going down as the greatest ever. You guys are sad. Especially the dumbfucks watching the show every week in momma's basement only to bitch about it every week. If you don't enjoy the show go out on Fri. nights instead of having to suffer through something you hate. Don't give me that invested time bullshit either. I stopped watching Sopranos after 4 1/2 seasons and I have no desire to watch the finale or the end of the series.
-
At the end of Final Crisis, Batman was a caveman for some reason.
-
and youre a special kind of douchebag, because you seem to think a BSG check is coming your way, the way you make it some sort of personal badge of honor. For your info, I HAD been hoping that a show that began with so many interesting and new concepts could have actually ended it the same way. I guess if someone gives youa shitty mcdonalds hamburger and you think it's filet mignon, no one can argue with you. you can have mcdonalds. im going to find something better
-
I mean, lets face it, pretty much ALL sci-fi concepts eventually cross into ridiculousness. But BSG was an exceptionally good, interesting, exciting show. I'm not even a rabid fan, but I really liked it, and I liked the ending, even if some things were kinda iffy, it pretty much went exactly where I was expecting. The only criticism I have is I find it HIGHLY unlikely that they would just throw all of their technology into the sun. Theres no way. But, whatevah, it was still good.
Oh, and THE PRISONER still pwns as best series ending ever. -
Uh oh, you are right, my gods. I am just waiting to cash in. Sorry if I struck a nerve. At least now you can go out on Fri. nights, right? HAHAHAHAHAHA, who am I kidding!? You got to stay in and rub one out to some Megan Fox pasties or whatever the fuck. Go back to hating bro, maybe you will get your entertainment there.
-
...but were we supposed to think that No.6 was the same guy as in Danger Man?
-
Mar 22, 2009 12:44:43 PM CDT
Terrible, terrible ending to a show that started perfectly
by karterhol
Okay, so I have some questions (other than "how dare they?").
1.) So, Starbuck's an angel. Like an angel-angel? Okaaaaay. So, let's just look at this for a second. The writers are saying that we live in a universe where God(s?) rules all. And this God(s) is/are a really hands on God(s)? Like REALLY hands on. As in, angels walking amongst us.
So, if that's the case...it seems like a pretty major deus ex machina. Like not seen in storytelling since "Antigone."
Wow-- so 3/4 of the way through a series, the writers suddenly introduce a little story point like angels? As in physical, interactive, getting drunk, playing piano and making out with Lee and shooting cylons type of angels?
Wow...That. Takes. Balls.
2.) So, magic-6-in-Baltar's-head was an angel all along, too? Of course, this doesn't work. At all. Because they drastically retrofitted this character in Season 4. In fact, she disappeared for almost a complete season before bringing her back in a completely different way. The second version was all about pushing Baltar to do good, etc.
The first version was fucking, sucking and manipulating him to kill the humans. It was clearly a Cylon inspired vision because everything she motivated him to do led to the death and destruction of the humans and helped the Cylons. But whatever. I guess because she talked about "God's plan," I'm supposed to assume they knew all along that she was an angel all along.
Yeah, sure. And Lucas knew that Luke and Leia were brother and sister all along, too. That's why he had them make out in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.
Because that's what you would do if you knew those two characters were related.
Keep trying to convince me of that, George.
3.) So, after 8 episodes of nearly no action (with one DIE HARD episode as the one exception), we get a full hour of non-stop action. Fine.
Except I have no idea what their mission is (other than "find the girl"). Okay. So, we're watching a space version of CHINATOWN. But, unlike that movie, I don't understand ANYONE'S motivation. I don't even know how they found Cylon world. What meaning does Hera have to the humanity? I mean, I get why she's important to the Cylons. They get to figure out how to breed because of her. Otherwise they die out. So, if the human mission was "kill the girl" I get it. That makes sense. It would be a little ugly, but it would be dramatic. It would also put Athena and Heilo at odds with Adama and Roslin.
But no. They didn't go there. Instead, they just tell us that she's important. We have no idea why. But we're supposed to take their word for it.
So, because I don't understand the mission and because literally no one of importance died on the mission (other than Boomer, who gets shot by Athena), I couldn't care less about all that "action."
4.) More about Hera. Hate to harp on it, except she's the whole point of Season 4. Literally. So, explain: we're told that Hera is the most important little creature in the universe. She is the key to human life continuing.
Why?
We don't know.
But without her, humanity is doomed.
Except we get to our Earth and wow! There are humans.
Yes. Humans. Like human-humans.
So, throughout this entire series, there was never any chance of the humans dying out. Because they are magically on our own world. And the entire four season struggle for human existence meant nothing. The Cylons could have killed every living human and worn Adama like a skin tuxedo and the humans would STILL have existed.
Seriously. These writers are so stupid they don't realize they've completely invalidated their entire series with their stupid, retro-con storytelling.
But whatever. Here's another completely insane element:
Flash forward 150,000 years (which is even further than the flashforward at the end of A.I.-- one of the most absurd endings of all time. Well done, BSG!). We learn from angel Baltar/angel 6 who that little Hera's bones have been found in an excavation in Africa. Along with her human father and Cylon mother.
A little girl.
A LITTLE GIRL???
Okaaaaay...so that means Hera dies. Like, really young. Like, as a child. Like, really soon after we last see her.
So, basically, could someone explain WHAT THE FUCK WAS SO IMPORTANT ABOUT HERA IF SHE DIED MONTHS AFTER REACHING NEW EARTH!!!
Seriously, was God's plan for Hera to appear on the cover of National Geographic? Was that it? And doesn't Hera invalidate evolution? I mean, she represents a human being that is out of time by at least 145,000 years. I mean, seriously-- humans haven't even developed LANGUAGE. We're pretty far back in the human chain of existence. And now scientists are looking at a modern homo sapian girl.
Wow.
Thank you God for totally fucking the theory of evolution.
Maybe that WAS God's plan. Maybe that's the ultimate message. God exists. Evolution is bullshit.
But I kinda doubt it.
This was a disaster of a season. A total trainwreck of an ending with no comprehension of the material. I mean, there's shit that just was a complete "fuck you" to logic and storytelling. The final five suddenly have total understanding how to be super-cylons. Fine. I'll accept that they suddenly know that when they put their hands in Anders soup that they'll all magically link to one another and know everything that ever happened to each other. Okay. But THAT'S what makes Chief kill Indian girl and then the deal's suddenly off between humans and Cylons and then everyone shoots each other and Dean Stockwell shoots himself in the head? Really? What?
No, seriously, WHAT?
And remember Indian girl killing Callie because she though the baby was a cylon baby? Except it wasn't? It was Hot Dog's? Remember how all of that was built up to be important? And then it wasn't? Until it was? Because they realized they painted themselves into a corner with too many cylon babies. So they invalidated one and miscarried another?
Because they were winging it. And have since the end of Season 2.
And how about Starbuck's throw away line where she puts numbers to the ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER notes? And it turns out that's where Earth is? Of course, when she suggested the number thing in a previous episode, I said outloud to myself, "Why the fuck would you even think to do that?" But whatever. Lame.
And let me get this morality straight-- Baltar gets to kill off the 12 colonies and then lie, cheat and add to the death toll at every step of the way. But then, because he talks about God in the final scene and brokers a treaty with the cylons (that lasts for all of 3 minutes before Chief kills Indian girl and screws everything up), he and Caprica are now allowed to live in peace for the rest of their lives?
Wow. God sucks. I mean, seriously, He's a total asshole.
And if "God being an asshole" was the point, maybe they shouldn't have played the final Batlar/Caprica-going-off-to-their-new-farm moment as romantic and sweet. Because it was the equivalent of watching Hitler and Eva Braun retire to Napa Valley at the end of WWII.
Christ, these guys are fucking idiots.
And listen-- you can't have angels be both invisible all knowing creatures and regular humans flying Vipers. They can't be both.
Sure, "God" can do anything I guess.
But professional storytellers should know better.
A lot better.
Because that's just lazy storytelling.
I could go on and on, but I've had enough. They had a spectacular first season. An extremely strong second season. A wonky season 3.0. A terrible 3.5. And then one disaster after another, leading up to an absolutely insulting and idiotic finale.
My jaw was hanging open in shock.
I want to punch them all in the dick. -
At least some bring their own thoughts. You bring, let's see: 1. momma's basement, 2. "greatest ever," 3. masturbation, 4. "hating," and 5. "bro." You may go out on Friday nights, but I can't imagine any sober person having a conversation with your ass. You are dead in the head. Once the brain stops working, the balls aren't much use either.
-
Mar 22, 2009 12:53:01 PM CDT
"Hitler and Eva Braun retire to Napa Valley at the end of WWII"
by bjornegar
Oops. For those who haven't seen the BSG finale: Spoiler Alert.
-
Lol, I will chalk you up as another one that sits there and watches a show just to hate on it. Don't blame me for your troubles and then take it out on me. It is not my fault you have nothing else going on other than being in momma's basement and watching something that bothers you so. Oh, I can't go out on Fri. nights (My fri. is Sun. if that makes sense) I am at work and I do not drink or blow green. I am sure you will more compelling insights as to what my character is.
-
You make a strong case. A strong case, indeed.
Let's punch the writers in the dicks. So say we all. -
Aim for the face.
-
Somebody take the last half of this thread out back and shoot it.
-
Paragraph breaks. Props to blrp for reading that, but I couldn't make it.
-
baltar and 6 being 'angels' is total absurd lol.
-
But I liked it anyway. I accepted it on its own terms and think it worked. Kara angel was dumb. I agree. Hera's significance being proof of the missing link was dumb (especially since, clearly, she dies very young). I agree. But I don't think the whole thing is about god doing everything. I think they make a pretty strong case that its not really a god, but a force of nature that drives evolution. And I say that as a stone cold atheist who doesn't believe in I.D. bullshit.
The only thing that is hard for me to accept, even on its own terms, is that they would throw all of their technology into the sun. Theres just no way. -
Some don't know how.
For example? -
When wanting to break paragraphs, type
back-arrow, p, forward-arrow
not literally, you know what I mean -
Type
back-arrow, p, forward-arrow
not literally, you know what I mean
jesus, twittering would be completely beyond me -
So say me all
-
If I follow ONE MORE intricate, intriguing, complex storyline only to reach the end and find out the writers have no idea what is going on... I am going to pound a writer into jelly with a tire iron! The answer to all the intricate difficult tantalizing questions is ... "because the undefined cosmic being that was running it all wanted it that way". AAARRRRGGGHHHH AAARRRRGGGGHHH! BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD WRITER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Okay, so I have some questions (other than "how dare they?").
1.) So, Starbuck's an angel. Like an angel-angel? Okaaaaay. So, let's just look at this for a second. The writers are saying that we live in a universe where God(s?) rules all. And this God(s) is/are a really hands on God(s)? Like REALLY hands on. As in, angels walking amongst us.
So, if that's the case...it seems like a pretty major deus ex machina. Like not seen in storytelling since "Antigone."
Wow-- so 3/4 of the way through a series, the writers suddenly introduce a little story point like angels? As in physical, interactive, getting drunk, playing piano and making out with Lee and shooting cylons type of angels?
Wow...That. Takes. Balls.
2.) So, magic-6-in-Baltar's-head was an angel all along, too? Of course, this doesn't work. At all. Because they drastically retrofitted this character in Season 4. In fact, she disappeared for almost a complete season before bringing her back in a completely different way. The second version was all about pushing Baltar to do good, etc.
The first version was fucking, sucking and manipulating him to kill the humans. It was clearly a Cylon inspired vision because everything she motivated him to do led to the death and destruction of the humans and helped the Cylons. But whatever. I guess because she talked about "God's plan," I'm supposed to assume they knew all along that she was an angel all along.
Yeah, sure. And Lucas knew that Luke and Leia were brother and sister all along, too. That's why he had them make out in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.
Because that's what you would do if you knew those two characters were related.
Keep trying to convince me of that, George.
3.) So, after 8 episodes of nearly no action (with one DIE HARD episode as the one exception), we get a full hour of non-stop action. Fine.
Except I have no idea what their mission is (other than "find the girl"). Okay. So, we're watching a space version of CHINATOWN. But, unlike that movie, I don't understand ANYONE'S motivation. I don't even know how they found Cylon world. What meaning does Hera have to the humanity? I mean, I get why she's important to the Cylons. They get to figure out how to breed because of her. Otherwise they die out. So, if the human mission was "kill the girl" I get it. That makes sense. It would be a little ugly, but it would be dramatic. It would also put Athena and Heilo at odds with Adama and Roslin.
But no. They didn't go there. Instead, they just tell us that she's important. We have no idea why. But we're supposed to take their word for it.
So, because I don't understand the mission and because literally no one of importance died on the mission (other than Boomer, who gets shot by Athena), I couldn't care less about all that "action."
4.) More about Hera. Hate to harp on it, except she's the whole point of Season 4. Literally. So, explain: we're told that Hera is the most important little creature in the universe. She is the key to human life continuing.
Why?
We don't know.
But without her, humanity is doomed.
Except we get to our Earth and wow! There are humans.
Yes. Humans. Like human-humans.
So, throughout this entire series, there was never any chance of the humans dying out. Because they are magically on our own world. And the entire four season struggle for human existence meant nothing. The Cylons could have killed every living human and worn Adama like a skin tuxedo and the humans would STILL have existed.
Seriously. These writers are so stupid they don't realize they've completely invalidated their entire series with their stupid, retro-con storytelling.
But whatever. Here's another completely insane element:
Flash forward 150,000 years (which is even further than the flashforward at the end of A.I.-- one of the most absurd endings of all time. Well done, BSG!). We learn from angel Baltar/angel 6 who that little Hera's bones have been found in an excavation in Africa. Along with her human father and Cylon mother.
A little girl.
A LITTLE GIRL???
Okaaaaay...so that means Hera dies. Like, really young. Like, as a child. Like, really soon after we last see her.
So, basically, could someone explain WHAT THE FUCK WAS SO IMPORTANT ABOUT HERA IF SHE DIED MONTHS AFTER REACHING NEW EARTH!!!
Seriously, was God's plan for Hera to appear on the cover of National Geographic? Was that it? And doesn't Hera invalidate evolution? I mean, she represents a human being that is out of time by at least 145,000 years. I mean, seriously-- humans haven't even developed LANGUAGE. We're pretty far back in the human chain of existence. And now scientists are looking at a modern homo sapian girl.
Wow.
Thank you God for totally fucking the theory of evolution.
Maybe that WAS God's plan. Maybe that's the ultimate message. God exists. Evolution is bullshit.
But I kinda doubt it.
This was a disaster of a season. A total trainwreck of an ending with no comprehension of the material. I mean, there's shit that just was a complete "fuck you" to logic and storytelling. The final five suddenly have total understanding how to be super-cylons. Fine. I'll accept that they suddenly know that when they put their hands in Anders soup that they'll all magically link to one another and know everything that ever happened to each other. Okay. But THAT'S what makes Chief kill Indian girl and then the deal's suddenly off between humans and Cylons and then everyone shoots each other and Dean Stockwell shoots himself in the head? Really? What?
No, seriously, WHAT?
And remember Indian girl killing Callie because she though the baby was a cylon baby? Except it wasn't? It was Hot Dog's? Remember how all of that was built up to be important? And then it wasn't? Until it was? Because they realized they painted themselves into a corner with too many cylon babies. So they invalidated one and miscarried another?
Because they were winging it. And have since the end of Season 2.
And how about Starbuck's throw away line where she puts numbers to the ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER notes? And it turns out that's where Earth is? Of course, when she suggested the number thing in a previous episode, I said outloud to myself, "Why the fuck would you even think to do that?" But whatever. Lame.
And let me get this morality straight-- Baltar gets to kill off the 12 colonies and then lie, cheat and add to the death toll at every step of the way. But then, because he talks about God in the final scene and brokers a treaty with the cylons (that lasts for all of 3 minutes before Chief kills Indian girl and screws everything up), he and Caprica are now allowed to live in peace for the rest of their lives?
Wow. God sucks. I mean, seriously, He's a total asshole.
And if "God being an asshole" was the point, maybe they shouldn't have played the final Batlar/Caprica-going-off-to-their-new-farm moment as romantic and sweet. Because it was the equivalent of watching Hitler and Eva Braun retire to Napa Valley at the end of WWII.
Christ, these guys are fucking idiots.
I could go on and on, but I've had enough. I have actual work to do. And I hate them. I hate them more than I can say. They had a spectacular first season. An extremely strong second season. A wonky season 3.0. A terrible 3.5. And then one disaster after another, leading up to an absolutely insulting and idiotic finale.
My jaw was hanging open in shock.
I want to punch them all in the dick.
-
you are just sad, im not here to be some preacher with no followers, im here to have a good time coz i like seeing BSG fans argue over a shitty show.
-
the whole "Set Your Controls for the Heart of the Sun" thing. Unlikely and silly, hell yes!, but, otherwise, they'd just've become fascist overlords. No way I'd've been down with that.
BSG is destined to be the new standard of "cult" show. Seen by about the same number of people as "Smallville." Defended vehemently, even by some people who should know better. Dismissed vehemently, even by some people who should know better. Ignored by most, rightfully so.
God, I pine for the era before niche-marketing took over entertainment. -
For serious? If you cried at this show you have serious mental problems that are probably in no small part due to being as shallow as a puddle.
-
i dont understand why u guys cant accept that it was a good ending. seriously all the alternative endings i read here are either ridiculous or ripped-off outta stargate. i guess mathematically speaking, stargate seems to be the only choice for your satisfaction as it includes all the things you wanted for the BSG ending.
-
it seem pretty simple to me that if new BSG is a re-imagining of the original, then the finale makes good on the promise of the original. i mean, that they get to ancient earth, help populate it and influence it into the modern culture we have today. "the brothers of man...."stuff at the beginning of the old-school TV series.
all throughout the current series there are numerous references to the original series. from the mini-series "by your command" line to the pegasus storyline to starbuck painting the "ship of lights" in one episode.
in the original series, the beings of light sent one of their number (john) to use apollo to stop a war between nations (the episode-experiment in terra) john was seen by apollo and no one else (only in his head maybe?) anyway the beings of light in the old show were fighting a war against evil (count iblis) and i think that they may have even been the lords of kobal referenced throughout the original series. both sides of this battle manipulated the colonials in old BSG to suit their own ends.
my point is that if you look at the new show as a re-telling of the old show (with numerous twists and differences) then the higher power in the new show represents the beings of light and six, baltar, and even starbuck are the modern versions of john, count iblis, etc.
that is one of the MANY reasons i loved the show and the final episode. check out the original series and compare.it only makes the new show better.
i hope this makes sense as i'm a first-time poster on this board.
oh and dioxholster.. i like stargate too, but dude, apples and oranges man...they are two totally different types of shows as i'm sure you well know. you CAN like both or neither...i watch both for different reasons and depending on what mood i'm in will enjoy one or the other. we can co-exist.
-
Have you been watching this show from the start? Religion has played a major role since the mini-series. Hell, since 1978, if you want to go back that far.
Head Six told Baltar she was an Angel Of God in the first season. It's not a concept they came up with a month ago. No deus ex machina in sight. -
So, unintelligible lawyer became President when President Pretty Brit resigned, yes? Why wouldn't government be the first thing they sent to the sunspots? Especially, "so say we all" democracy? How about letting the indigenous people come up with their own? Maybe they will, maybe they won't be Americanish. Whatever, it's their frakking palnet.
Okay, so TWO more WTFs. Hera's a big deal because, 150,000 years from now, everyone's a hybrid. And this is "positive" how, exactly? that's not the shiny-happy future of humanity. That's the end of humanity. The humans were the blue people you supplanted, frakheads.
I still think it should have ended six months ago, when they all jumped to "wasteland" Earth. If, instead of finding the Planet of the Apes, they'd've found Dubbya's Air Force gunning to shoot "dem" alien terrorists out of our sky. -
Did ya like it or not? Perhaps they should eat all the dicks. Or maybe just a bag of them?
-
"1.) So, Starbuck's an angel. Like an angel-angel? Okaaaaay. "----- I guess that depends on what you think an angel is. Definition-wise, an angel is a messenger of God. Traditionally, it is a messenger of God that is not human. You can really put into it what you want to get out of it. I personally took it to mean that Kara died, and was sent back for a short time not as an angel, or a ghost, but simply as someone who was revived in order to complete a mission. I tend not to think of her as an angel. Angels in the show (the in-heads) bear little resemblance to Kara, IMO.
"Wow-- so 3/4 of the way through a series, the writers suddenly introduce a little story point like angels?"------No. It was from the beginning. RDM says in the podcast for the SESAON 2 episode where head-Six says that she is an angel that he had always planned it this way. You clearly haven't been paying attention if you failed to notice the word angel being thrown around SINCE SEASON 2! All your secondary points about the in-heads "clearly" being cylon versions are likewise moot.
C'mon, man. You really ignored all the talk about angels, god, Gods, prophecies, and the like? You thought that all the CLEARLY PRESCIENT visions Laura Roslin was experiencing were as easily explainable as all that? You thought that Cylon visions were responsible for Baltar choosing the right point to hit during"Hand of God"? You explain the prophecis that came true throughout the series as Cylon vision? NO. From the miniseries on to the last ep, there was some higher power at work.
"So, if that's the case...it seems like a pretty major deus ex machina"---- this term can now sit alongside "jump the shark" and legislating from the bench" as one of the most bastardized phrases. The term refers to Gog/gods/higher power RESOLVING CONFLICTS AT THE END OF A STORY. And the term IS NOT always negative or positive, but is a neutral term. The way you just used the term is totally inconsistent with the concept name you've attached to it.
And Hera was EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. She was the lynchpin for the final confrontation that LED TO FINDING EARTH. She also produced the notes for Starbuck which eventually led to Starbuck's jump coordinates. What more do you want out of her?
"we get to our Earth and wow! There are humans. Yes. Humans. Like human-humans. So, throughout this entire series, there was never any chance of the humans dying out."----Hey, dumbass. Did you forget that they were TRYING TO FIND HUMANS SINCE THE MINISERIES? That was the whole fucking point: rejoin the 13th colony of humans.
"We learn from angel Baltar/angel 6 who that little Hera's bones have been found in an excavation in Africa. Along with her human father and Cylon mother. A little girl. A LITTLE GIRL??? Okaaaaay...so that means Hera dies. Like, really young. Like, as a child."------ Nice way to make an assumption, pal. The paper never says who old she is. What it DID say however, was that she was mitochondrial eve, indicating that SHE WAS AT LEAST OF BREEDING AGE when she died. Dude, your logic is pathetic.
"And remember Indian girl killing Callie because she though the baby was a cylon baby?"---- More assumptions. Wrong ones, at that. She killed Callie because Callie knew her secret, God, you are an idiot. This show seems to be too much for you to handle, so you may want to stiick with Hannah Montanna. Set your DVR, if you're smart enough to do so.
-
heard of an "unreliable narrator", or just grappled with the concept that you don't HAVE to believe what the characters say about things.
Okay, lots of people are pissed about "angels", but what are "angels" anyways? It seems to me like people are inserting their own concepts of what is an "angel" into this story. All you know is that Balter interpreted his visions as "divine will", and acted accordingly. He managed to convince people and then off they were, en route to Earth. Nothing about that was actually "divine intervention." None of it was Deus Ex Machina. It was human interpretations of the unexplainable.
Starbuck was a manifestation of something unexplainable. I wish she hadn't actually disappeared before Lee's eyes. I wish she had gone off to some sunset and heighten the ambiguity. But there it is ... but what was she? WE STILL DON'T KNOW! It's an unexplained mystery. Call it bad writing, feel free to walk away with a bad taste in your mouth, but it's ultimately just that -- an unexplained mystery.
And then there are the "angels" Head Baltar and Head Six in the very last scene. I may be alone here, but I don't think those were really "angels", certainly not as we understand them in Wester society. My theory is that they were the "evolved" Cylon centurions that went off on their own at the end of the show. They returned to Earth to see how things were going in the form of the two "savior" Humans/Skin Jobs they had known when they left the Earth colony behind them. They acted as "angels" because that's how they interpreted their role -- that's how their religion evolved.
A lot of people here would disagree with me, I gather, but this isn't "A Wonderful Life," or "Oh, God", where you have people actually identified AS "God" and "angels" and acting accordingly.
You have visions, and you have different characters' interpretations of those visions. And, geez, people NEVER interpret visions the wrong way, do they? -
"Angel of God" is - pretty much - what "Deus ex machina" is, silly, no matter if it's introduced in the first show or the last.
-
Confused by your comments. I've never even seen STARGATE. Seen the movie once and hated it. Didn't have any interest in the series.
This was thematically and structurally a tepid and lazy ending. It's very clear the writers knew how to start the story, but had no idea how to end it.
That's why we had so many episodes where nothing happened. And that's why they had to rely on two different types of angels to get them out of the holes they dug for themselves. There was no consistency.
Also...could some explain what the FUCK was up with the pigeon? Am I supposed to believe that was Starbuck's soul?
Except Starbuck was still alive. Remember? She was the slut who was about to bang the brother of her boyfriend on the table the night she met him (classy!).
So, if Apollo saw the pigeon AFTER she disappeared on Earth, I'd say, "Okay. Fine. She's a pigeon."
Except it wasn't. It was in a flashback.
So, all I can say about that scene is that drunk Apollo let a random pigeon into his room.
I admit, I've done the same thing once when I woke up after being wasted (true story).
But I didn't think the bird held the soul of my brother's girlfriend.
Maybe that's why I never was able to get a job writing for BSG.
Next time I try to get a job on a show, I'll just throw logic out the window and have angels do everything for the heroes.
I'll probably get home early enough to spend some time with my wife, too. Instead of, you know, figuring out a real solution to a trick story plot.
Lesson learned!
-
That's Wednesdays. it's called "Ghost Hunters." It comes with evp recorders and heat meters.
Human interpretations of the unexplainable, then. Is that really what you want to posit? Because, on that score, then BSG is an even bigger failure. No human will ever, upon learning that his ex-girlfriend has just been scientifically evidenced to be a ghost, walk up to said girlfriend and say "It doesn't matter to me."
Once science can prove the existence of a ghost, all religious theories are up for grabs, and the shit hits the fan. -
at first pass assume that it's meaningless and stupid.
I guess it's why Country music will always be more popular than poetry. -
This: The writers are idiots and they confused pigeons with doves.
-
I liked it..dont know if i loved it but i deffo liked it! It needs a 2nd viewing i think..but im afraid ill see even more holes if i do that. I too thought Baltar should have bought the farm..i love the character but cmon! Redeem the little fucker then blow his head off. Helo too should have died from his wound..add some more weight to it. But i had a tear in my eye when Roslin gave up the ghost..obviously we new it was gonna happen buy still.
by the way, Stargate sucks donkey balls. -
Your response was perfect:
"That's Wednesdays. it's called "Ghost Hunters." It comes with evp recorders and heat meters."
I would call it "religion," and it comes with prophets and visions and batshit craziness that doesn't always make sense. Fans of sci-fi may be inclined to get their underwear in a bunch because it doesn't explain everything with precise, scientific explanations. On the other hand, though, that impulse to explain away everything is, in my opinion, what led to crap concepts like "midicholorians".
Because, where does the Force come from!?! LAZY WRITING! GIVE US ANSWERS!!! -
because they read poetry.
-
I'm going to think about it, maybe watch it again, and consider.
I'm not going to throw up my hands and chew out the writers because there wasn't a big glowing sign over the pigeon saying "I REPRESENT STARBUCK'S SOUL, OR WHATEVER, YOU LAZY MORONS! PAY ATTENTION!" -
as has been explained on this talkback, and in various talkbacks throughout time when referencing shows that used this symbolism:
a bird in the house is used to represent impending death. it was nothing but a symbol to suggest wht was to come. this is an old, old myth that has been used in tons of tv programs, books etc. geeze man. get over it. -
Thansk for explaining better than I ever could have how this show just shit itself at the end (last 3 half seasons). The whole thing where Baltar and the Cylon Genocide just gets brushed under the rug still bothers me, just like the Cylons putting pictures of dead "Cylons" o n the memorial wall- sure 2 years after 99.9999999 of humanity gets crushed via genocide, you're just AOK and all that. remember when the show had Baltar hiding under the guilt of the deaths he caused and you wondered if he was a cylon, or was guided by the Cylons or if he was insane from the genocide- of course the writers excused that via the "everyone is guilty" trial os S3. Becuase we should feel bad for murdering machines we made them do work and all
Also I found out fo anyone that wants to take this murderous rampage of a talkback to what was once cool (since JUMP THE SHARK went to shit, and all of the BSG goodness there was eliminated) I found that some fans of the old site made up bonethefish DOT com (they have been waging a flame war on TV guides site) I'm going to set up some BSG finale items to vote on.
Again two thumbs up Karterhol -
It's not the impulse to explain everything that bothers me. It's the impulse to explain everything without bothering to really explain it. or to explain it with "oh, it's unexplainable."
Look, the writers started this shit. At some point there was a story they wanted to tell. if they were good writers, then everything they wrote would serve that story, and they'd never find themselves "making it up as we go along." A good story has a beginning, a middle and an end. A good story has a frakking point. A not-up-for-debate, you-like-it-or-you-don't point. And, every story should be judged as it is. The reader should never have to fill in all of the blanks. -
Maybe it is "literally" Deus ex machina but my point is, it's been there from the start. It's been consistent with everything that's happened. I don't think you can really complain just because it does, in fact, explain everything.
-
that was the worst thing ever. the force should never be explained! and batmarv is a pervert.
-
But see this ending was the beauty of all of that. BSG has always had a reputation of being negative and realistic to the extreme. It's also been famous for doing the unexpected. A hopeful ending where they " may " break the cycle is just the thing and unexpected. I really liked the ending and would have been disapointed if they just killed everyone off. That would have been easy and predictable. The more I watch it I really loved this very moving ending.
-
The pigeon has nothing to do with Starbuck. The pigeon is an omen of the impending Apocalypse.
Ok, now it makes more sense, but, somehow, it has even less relevance. -
I think it did represent Starbucks soul..in forshadowing at least..everything has happened before and all that...
-
It was a metaphor for Starbuck. Maybe even a sign of things to come. That's the thing about programs like this. They make you think.
-
Probably the single best point-by-point analysis of the failure of BSG...anywhere. That's not an exaggeration. Well done.
"I hate them more than I can say."
I feel your pain. Last week, I made a post titled "Fuck you, Ron Moore" because I could see this coming. However, some part of me still held out hope of him pulling a miracle out of his ass. Well, we see how that turned out. -
What moves you, bores me to tears.
That's ok, though. To each, their own. I cry like a baby during episodes of "Extreme Home Makeover." So, call my momma and tell her she raised a pussy! -
OTHER than Starbuck. Why would Apollo be thinking of making deep, meaningful eye contact with the pigeon RIGHT AFTER Starbuck disappeared (revealing she was an angel to him).
I'm not a TOTAL idiot (partial one, sure). I realize the symbolism of pigeons, doves and other animals in ancient storytelling.
But I also understanding editing. And when you cut from Starbuck disappearing to a flashback of Apollo making a doe-eyed connection with a bird, THAT BIRD IS STARBUCK.
And if it's NOT Starbuck, they have the worst editors on the planet.
If, for instance, you had the pigeon flashback in Season 1 when everyone was thinking about the end of life as they knew it, you would have a very clear editorial line.
But the didn't. They want us to believe Starbuck was the bird.
Which means she has two souls.
Or, it means that the writers don't have a fucking clue.
I'm gonna go with door number two. -
It seems to me that's what Zarek and Gaeta's uprising was all about. They weren't happy that people were willing to "forgive and forget" what happened.
-
yeah same here, it was a good ending. but BSG got terrible fans who want everything to be doomy like their miserable lives.
-
Talk about TERRIBLE writing and HORRIBLE ideas. Those guys want us to think Batman can be somebody other than Bruce Wayne.
Pop culture sucks.
A pigeon just crapped on the hood of my car. Does that portend anything? -
Sorry but watched it now 3 times. Thjey didn't say they found a little girl! they found the remains of Hera yes but nothing says she didn't live a full lifetime. The in head #6 says " She lived 150,000 years ago ". The in head Gaius says " With her Cylon and Human parents ". He filled in afterwards. That wasn't in the magazine article. So Hera and her offspring gave rise to us.
-
A car wash.
-
Although I mostly liked the finale, I admit this mostly negative review is hilarious: http://tinyurl.com/d639u9
-
Much thanks. (Undeserved) hyperbole for my writing aside, I just read your post and enjoyed it tremendously.
And to the others-- yes, I have watched from the beginning. Yes, I understand God was a part of it from the start. But that doesn't excuse sloppy story plotting.
Or worse, boring, boring writing. Which is certainly what Season 3.5 and Season 4 are guilty of.
BEN HUR has God/Jesus playing a role in the story. Yet, they found a way to do so and allow the main character to play a role in his own destiny. -
Seraphs could time-travel in G1980. Here too. Future-Kara saying good-bye to past-Lee.
-
She didn't die as a young girl, months after getting to Earth. She's revealed as the "Mitochondrial Eve", the most recent common ancestor for all currently living humans. She's literally the mother of modern humanity. Couldn't have happened if she had died as a five year old child.
-
Didn't you hear Baltar's speech to Cavil? " God doesn't take sides. God's a force of nature. Good and evil we invented that ". What do you think he was saying there? Free Will. Everyone of those characters was in control of their lives as much as any of us are.
-
Glad to oblige but I don't see any scolding in my post. *ahem*If you're gonna post something long, I recommend you use paragraph breaks. To do this, type , without the spaces between the .
-
and,while far from perfect,it satisfied this viewer enough.Still got a major beef w/the resolution of Starbuck.I know it was mentioned earlier,but,thanks to chrth,Pennsy,Mr.Nice Gaius,chromedome,and the rest of the talkbackers for pointing out things I missed or didn't understand during the course of the show.The help was invaluable and much appreciated!
-
heres a Petition to have a stargate talkback. who here doesnt mind having a stargate talkback?
-
both flyers (and she has a wing tattoo)both were trapped, both became freeBirds are often used to represent spirits or soulsThe Holy Spirit is often represented by a Dove.
-
The reason why she was important was that she was an illustration that the futures of humans and cylons were intertwined.
Hera was termed as a "mitochondrial Eve" which means modern humans originate from her DNA. The show doesn't specify that Hera was *the* mother of modern day humans, what it does show that modern day humans are the descendants of human-cylon hybrid children.
Remember, the Two's, Six's, and Eight's all lived among humans on our Earth. Presumably they mated with the human colonials, thus giving birth to human-cylon hybrid children. Modern humans could have descended from any one of those offspring.
That's why Hera was important. To show us that humans and cylons needed to live on together if their civilizations were ever going to have a future. -
You said you didn't get the importance of Hera. Let me explain: At the end they say "the fossilized remains of a young woman" (NOT little girl) was found, that scientists believe is the common ancestor for all human beings living on earth. Basically, if you know anything about natural selection, what they are saying is that Hera's gene pool is what all of today's humans come from. So if the "Battlestar" humans and Hera specifically never made it to Earth, the humanoids who they saw walking around would NOT have evolved to what we are today. THAT IS THE IMPORTANCE. THAT IS WHAT YOU MISSED is your snide eagerness to bash what made no sense to you instead of asking for help..now, some other quick answers for you: HOW THEY FOUND THE COLONY: Sam found it when they plugged him in and he communicated with the Hive.WHY THE DEAL WAS OFF WHEN TYROL KILLED TORY (and you don't even know their names by the way, very telling): as Tai_Pan pointed out, you got the entire reason why Tory killed Callie wrong, so it's no surprise that you wouldn't understand why he would then kill Tory when he learned she killed Callie. Also, the reason the deal was off was because ALL THE FINAL FIVE needed to contribute their knowledge for resurrection. WHEN TORY WAS KILLED, her piece of the resurrection puzzle died with her. Cavill knew that. (In fact, most BSG viewers who pay attention knew that.) That's why the deal was off. WHY THEY ARE NOT "ANGELS" IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE: even at the end, Head/Angel 6 tells Head/Angel Baltar about "god's plan" and Baltar says "you know he doesn't like that name" referring to "GOD". What they are saying is he is not "God" as we see God, but some HIGHER BEING (God/Devil/Alien/Advanced race) that is influencing events. If you don't like that this person or group isn't specifally identified, fine, but it's not a "deus ex machina" as you wannabe lit majors keep pointing out. The existence of a higher, influential power has always been a part of "BSG"s narrative framework. (((Side note, if you want to see how TERRIBLE it is when higher powers are specifically identified, go see "Knowing", and tell me if you like that ending better. Now THAT is terrible writing.).. I hope this provided some illumination for you. I have little doubt that you'll flame on in these comments and make up more reasons why you hated the finale. Fine. Enjoy that world. I thought BSG was an amazing series, and I'm happy to be a part of the fan-base that got what they were doing, enjoyed it, and was entertained. Enjoy your misery.
-
but his Mom can stay.Stop hijacking TBs, you Tool. All you are doing is making everyone associate the word "stargate" with you, and that is not a way to support your show, if you really are a fan of it.
-
How about they land on a planet that is earth-like, but not OUR earth? Then you could end with them pledging to get rid of their tech and to blend in and help, but leave the question open - are they going to or will they eventually assert their dominance and start the cycle again?I'd rather be pondering that than how the crew of Battlestar Galactica begat filtered cigarettes for earthlings.
-
"The concluding episode of Battlestar Galactica went out on a high note for Syfy, posting a 1.7 household rating and 2.4 million viewers, according to Nielsen Media Research early national data.
The two-hour finale drew 1.5m adults 18-49 and 1.6m 25 to 54
The performance by the two-hour finale marked the series best performance with viewers since the season 2.5 premiere on Jan. 6, 2006, according to network officials. It also was the best marks in the aforementioned demos since the second installment of that season.
Friday night's rating was the show's tops since its third-season premiere on Oct. 6, 2006.
The numbers did not any include digital video recording viewing, which, through the season's penultimate episode, had added 700,000 viewers per installment on a live + 7-day basis. -
...is not meant to literally mean THE PIGEON=KARA. Come on, don't be retarded. It was symbolic. Not only, as people have already pointed out, the religious imagery of pigeon/dove/holy spirit, but also a metaphor for Lee and Kara's relationship...early on a lot of drunken scrabbling about (with both pigeon and Kara) but when Lee calmed down and was at peace (asleep after sobering up...or after going through everything for the last 4 seasons and reaching Earth) Lee and Kara finally reached a happy mellow place. Much like the bird, when it ceased to be chased, finally landed, then flew away. If you can't see the parallels a few scenes of simple imagery have without being a jackass and saying "what the fuck, is Kara the pigeon??" then this is not the show for you, and as a BSG fan I'm glad you're out of our club.
-
ummmm, NO!
-
...and that is, for a fact, Jimi Hendrix was a cylon. I frakkin knew it.
-
That was TERRIBLE. Okay Starbuck disappears into the ether and we cut to ... a fucking bird flying away? If this was on Family Feud that would be in the top 5 answers for "cliches representing death" (in 1980s music videos no less!
-
Withparagraph breaks, much better. I agree with a lot of what you say, if not all of it. Actually it's not even that I necessarily disagree, it just didn't bug me like it does you - to wit, the Hera thing. It's true - she was important enough to them to go on a crazy mission for, but they never really demonstrated any understanding of why she was important. But that doesn't really chap my ass as much as some of the other things.
-
Withparagraph breaks, much better. I agree with a lot of what you say, if not all of it. Actually it's not even that I necessarily disagree, it just didn't bug me like it does you - to wit, the Hera thing. It's true - she was important enough to them to go on a crazy mission for, but they never really demonstrated any understanding of why she was important. But that doesn't really chap my ass as much as some of the other things.
-
The fact that there was a "mutiny" over people wanting to help the Cylons made no sense. 30k people survive the death of 15 billion people, who exactly is going to be "wanting to work with the Cylons". For christ sakes, after Pearl harbor we threw every person that even looked Japanese into internment camps for 5 years, but after 99.99999999999% of the population gets annihilated, the remaining PC humans win out because they want to work with the Toasters- so far out in left field as to make no sense, the failure of the mutiny is like saying - "piss off" to common sense. And as to the characters flipping sides- the adama portrayed in the first two seasons sould NEVER work with any Cylons, again this character has been changed to suit the PC ramblings of the writers. THE 12 COLONIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN AVENGED would be the shouting cry for humans for thousands of years. But again this doesnt fit the PC leaning of the writers who want to tell us that we are all the same, everyone should get along etc.
-
Lets's create a petition for the Movie Sequels.
Okay they may be shit, but at least it will piss on the series' continuity and upset Dioxholster. -
i can't help but notice the auspicious lack of mentions for caprica, both by talkbackers and by ron moore/powers that be etc. no mention on the "best frakkin special." no mentions in any of the finale interviews etc. you'd think this would be a perfect time to say "hey wait. it's not quite over yet!"
so, speaking of. is anyone excited? everyone seems pretty hard on it but honestly, i've always wanted a sci fi show that just happens to set on another world/in the future that doesn't necessarily involve space battles/aliens etc. just hanging out. but in the future/different planet. could be kind of cool.
with that said, should we make a list of the potential things that could happen in caprica that specifically ties back to BSG? Here is mine:
Appearance of final five. Nobody in the show would know who they were, so isn't that fair game? They could not know who they are, an earlier incarnation etc. With that said, the appearance of cavil, some of the other cylons is also possible.
The same kind of god/angel stuff we got towards the end of BSG. People beset by visions, directing them, guiding them etc. Because, people on this show have to fulfill their roles to get the BSG cast to fulfill theirs. This means possible appearances by baltar, NO 6, and yes, even starbuck.
Has a young Adama been cast? If Joseph Adama is the age he seems to be, it would make sense a tyke/kid adama would be scampering about. Will he give impassioned gruff speeches to his toys? So say we all, gi joes.(or reasonsable caprica facsimile)
thats all for now! more later. you all should comment. -
now thats a nightmare.
-
http://petitionspot.com/petitions/SGFilm
or http://tinyurl.com/cscnvs -
i dunno. i understand the argument but sorta buy it. if only because after ww2, we were a huge superpower, got involved in the war and generally kicked ass. we weren't on the run, starving, destitute, having nowhere to go, looking for hope of any kind etc.
so i don't know. desperate times call for desperate measures you know? still, i'm not so sure i'd trust those frakkers. -
whats done is done, why go back for a pointless story.
-
haha thats so true. i hate both.
-
no story is inherently pointless. it's all in the details and how it's done.
-
its like telling a story about your first in front of your wife. very distasteful
-
I've never seen his picture before, and now that I have, everything makes a little more sense.
-
Too many people on here were projecting their endings on the show, you are bound for disappointment when you do that. You just need to go along for the ride...
-
You put up some very good points. There are unfortunately many nitpicky moments I have mainly with Adama leaving and not coming back. That didn't make much sense to me. I would've loved to see some interaction between him and his bestest cylon friend Tigh since he decided to live all by his lonesome. Other than that and maybe a couple of more little moments, it was a very good ending to a brilliant show. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to have to put my stargate loving son dickholder over my knees and spank his little rosy bottom.
-
I never liked this version of Battlestar Galactica. I think it was better than Galactica 1980 and that is about it. Then again dried dog turds on pasta is better than Galactica 1980. Being a huge fan of the REAL ORIGINAL Battlestar Galactica I must say that I did stick with this all the way to the end. I literally had to force myself to watch this series until the bitter end. That was a terrible finale if I ever saw one. Lazy writing no continuity with the earlier episodes. Just crap and garbage on top of sewage all the way through. I still say the only way to salvage Battlestar Galactica is with a cartoon that picks up the original story just after Hand of God and continues the adventures or real Starbuck, Boomer and Apollo against real Cylons. Please use the real theme music too. It would be extra cool if the original actors could be convinced to come back and do the voices.
-
Sorry to bring this up, but I was a HUGE Lost fan & am a BSG fan.
BSG definitely showed where Lost fell off. Till the end they stuck with character development, even while revealing secrets (sometimes using secrets to further character dev. eg Tigh being a cylon).
Lost completely abandoned character development... I don't care about anyone on Lost anymore. I just want to know whats up with the island & get it over with already.
-
what did i ever do to you? you're a manic. now go play with ur toys little boy.
-
I liked the finale because it was about the characters. I think it revealed everything it had to reveal although, i do disagree with sending the fleet into the sun. they didnt tell the centurions to fly into the sun, so the fleet should have stayed with the centurions.
-
What did you do to me? You get on here early on Friday spewing stupid garbage bashing BSG at the same time begging us to watch a piece of turd show like stargate. Whats the matter, you can't take your own medicine little boy? I guarantee you if by the grace of God Almighty there is a talkback for stargate I and I'm sure many others here will be there and give you hell. Oh and by the way, you're adopted. Sorry :)
-
long time reader, first post...
One of the best conclusions for a dramatic show, hands down. We can debate til we're blue in the face, but the end of BSG stands side by side with other great shows like Six feet under, The wire, The shield, STTNG and DS9. I only wish there had been a proper conclusion/resolution for Carnivale (Daniel Knauf with several episodes written by RDM). I'm not saying it was the best TV show ever nor am I saying it was riddle with holes and poor planning... It was just an AMAZING journey that in the end, lead me to a shore contemplating our future as a people, and as a planet.
Kara's accession/resurrection is no different to me than John Locke's resurrection on the island (including all of the religious undertones/overtones). I sure the Lost finale will be as controversial as BSGs, either we'll love it or hate it or fall somewhere in between. But to be clear, many aspects of the BSG finale were a part of the shows DNA since the beginning (and considering this was a re-imagination of the original BSG saga, it only makes sense spirituality is at the core of its resolution - ahem.. count iblis as Lucifer - seriously let's not forget).
I loved all of it...(the highs like 33 and the lows like black market) considering i've invested the last 5 years watching, fully vested in the characters waiting to see how it all would end, I was not disappointed. Sure I would have loved to have seen Dee and Gaeta make it, but their story arcs made for some of the most surprising TV moments i've had the chance to experience (not to mention the oath will go down as one of the finest hours of TV ever in my book).
Sure maybe a technical explanation of who and what Kara was would have been better, and maybe it wouldn't. Religion (in all its forms) tries to explain the unexplainable, giving an unknowable force attributes of the finite - jealousy, vengefulness, spiteful, always trying to apply human emotion/faces to a force responsible for creation of the universe. Trying to provide a concrete voice/persona of 'whatever you choose to believe' would have made the end single minded and one dimensional in my opinion.
As for the pigeon, well for me it was a symbol of Lee and Kara relationship. From the beginning they were attracted to one another (could have even loved one another for their first meeting) however it was broken (maybe their relationship, maybe it was Kara who through it all could never commit to one man)… and as many times as Lee tried to remove her from his life (breaking things and peoples hearts – Dee - along the way), she was always there.. and then, when she was ready..when the time was right, she would leave forever on her own terms…
All in all, I enjoyed the ride and will miss the adventure. RDM knew where the story was headed, had already pictured the very last scene and knew 'All along the watchtower' would be a part of that journey from the very beginning. IN the same fashion as lost and many other shows, the art of storytelling is knowing the end. The devil is in the details - and like many great shows there's always a misstep, not every season can fire on all cylinders, there's plot holes that could be debated.
as many have said, the destination is the journey...when writing a show over the course of 5/6/7 years things are likely to change.. actors grow old... some unfortunately pass away and the network execs have advertisers to keep happy, so the course a show may take is always subject to change along the way. What I loved most is that regardless of what paths BSG took, the end did justice to the beginning.
So say we all....
-
One of the best conclusions for a dramatic show, hands down. We can debate til we're blue in the face, but the end of BSG stands side by side with other great shows like Six feet under, The wire, The shield, STTNG and DS9. I only wish there had been a proper conclusion/resolution for Carnivale (Daniel Knauf with several episodes written by RDM). I'm not saying it was the best TV show ever nor am I saying it was riddle with holes and poor planning... It was just an AMAZING journey that in the end, lead me to a shore contemplating our future as a people, and as a planet.
Kara's accession/resurrection is no different to me than John Locke's resurrection on the island (including all of the religious undertones/overtones). I sure the Lost finale will be as controversial as BSGs, either we'll love it or hate it or fall somewhere in between. But to be clear, many aspects of the BSG finale were a part of the shows DNA since the beginning (and considering this was a re-imagination of the original BSG saga, it only makes sense spirituality is at the core of its resolution - ahem.. count iblis as Lucifer - seriously let's not forget).
I loved all of it...(the highs like 33 and the lows like black market) considering i've invested the last 5 years watching, fully vested in the characters waiting to see how it all would end, I was not disappointed. Sure I would have loved to have seen Dee and Gaeta make it, but their story arcs made for some of the most surprising TV moments i've had the chance to experience (not to mention the oath will go down as one of the finest hours of TV ever in my book).
Sure maybe a technical explanation of who and what Kara was would have been better, and maybe it wouldn't. Religion (in all its forms) tries to explain the unexplainable, giving an unknowable force attributes of the finite - jealousy, vengefulness, spiteful, always trying to apply human emotion/faces to a force responsible for creation of the universe. Trying to provide a concrete voice/persona of 'whatever you choose to believe' would have made the end single minded and one dimensional in my opinion.
As for the pigeon, well for me it was a symbol of Lee and Kara relationship. From the beginning they were attracted to one another (could have even loved one another for their first meeting) however it was broken (maybe their relationship, maybe it was Kara who through it all could never commit to one man)… and as many times as Lee tried to remove her from his life (breaking things and peoples hearts – Dee - along the way), she was always there.. and then, when she was ready..when the time was right, she would leave forever on her own terms…
All in all, I enjoyed the ride and will miss the adventure. RDM knew where the story was headed, had already pictured the very last scene and knew 'All along the watchtower' would be a part of that journey from the very beginning. IN the same fashion as lost and many other shows, the art of storytelling is knowing the end. The devil is in the details - and like many great shows there's always a misstep, not every season can fire on all cylinders, there's plot holes that could be debated.
as many have said, the destination is the journey...when writing a show over the course of 5/6/7 years things are likely to change.. actors grow old... some unfortunately pass away and the network execs have advertisers to keep happy, so the course a show may take is always subject to change along the way. What I loved most is that regardless of what paths BSG took, the end did justice to the beginning.
So say we all....
-
1+1=3 !
I may be crazy but that doesnt mean Im not Right!
Why cant' Johnny watch anymore?
-
But sadly only so say a few of us!
Looks like the Cavil genes are reasserting themselves 150k years later:)
-
crap almost destroyed this show but those great 1st and second seasons elevated sci-fi tv to a new standard. Bravo & thank you for a great show, R.D.Moore & co.
-
by the time there is a SGU talkback you wouldve forgot about me, its like months away. and i wasnt really annoying i was just expressing my opinion.
-
Because there is room in sci fi for all thought and religion is just as fundamental to us as is science.
People who are upset by beings that have powers beyond our understanding and call themselves fans of science fiction are quite one dimensional. -
Bobo2 – i know, but that’s why we talkback… everyone is entitled to an opinion.
And to those awaiting Caprica, I’ve seen the 2 hour pilot and well, I’m not quite so sure how people will respond. I had a tough time sinking into the first 20 min, it felt like a CW show like one tree hill or gossip girl but as the plot began to unravel I was pulled in. The last 30-45 min will hit true BSG fans hard… and by the end I was interested to see how this all plays out.
I can already see Caprica ending with the start of the first Cylon war – if it makes that far before being pulled by the network (once again not quite sure how it will resonate with core BSG fans or how well it will draw a new audience – syfy doesn’t quite know how to market itself which gives me a sense they may not know how to market their shows properly).
Let’s just say the story is set on Caprica about 60 years before the Fall…which is roughly 20 years before the first cylon war. Can’t wait for the talkbacks…
-
Is NOT a story about the writers of BSG.
That being said, the climactic battle was well choreographed and executed. But what time they wasted on strip joints and teacher's banging former students, they could have used to plug in more of the holes (uh, that didn't come out right). WHO KARA WAS didn't have the same Holy Crap kind of effect that the finale revealing 4 of the final 5 had. Why the entire population of survivors would willingly give up their creature comforts and embrace a back to nature future, though admirable, didn't seem entirely plausible.Was it just me, or did this entire finale feel like sex--a lot of build up, a few mind-spinningly exciting moments, then...you pick up the remote to see if Late Night is on.Frakkin bird. -
every good episode has to end up with Late Night.
-
The writers have continually treated the characters as plot devices, no mater what inconsistency it results in. They've leveraged this mistreatment so they could have their heavy-handed current event allegories for a while now; it seems silly to laud the showrunners for making the finale about the characters when they long ago abrogated any fealty they had to them.
-
Please AT ONCE cease and desist saying the following:
1) Hera had no importance- No? She's the secret to reprodction for the whole cylon race, and oh by the way...she's the frakkin missing link folks! (And WHERE exactly did they say in the final scene she died as a child? I missed that little detail)
2) "The "bird" was meaningless"- Really? How out telling that to all the cultures that have a superstition that seeing a bird portends a death in the family?? Sound familiar?
3- "LAZY WRITING"- Stop it. Just stop! You are NOT writers- you DO NOT know what you're talking about. STFU!
4- "Duh...why did Adama go off BY HIMSELF??? That goes against his character arch/ development/ ie some other such shit you once heard in a college intro to theatre class!" - Uh, he was DYING! How many shots of the old man popping pills, swilling booze, and breaking down do we need to have shoved in our faces to see that his life is reaching the end???
5- "Dur....if it's SCIENCE FICTION then it CANNOT have a spirtual element!!! That's LAZY WRITING!!!"
Really? Tell that to STAR WARS,STAR TREK, anything Joss Whedon ever did, and ..oh yeah BATTLESTAR GALACTICA/ TOS!!!!
Jebus, people!!! Just...stop. -
Please AT ONCE cease and desist saying the following:
1) Hera had no importance- No? She's the secret to reprodction for the whole cylon race, and oh by the way...she's the frakkin missing link folks! (And WHERE exactly did they say in the final scene she died as a child? I missed that little detail)
2) "The "bird" was meaningless"- Really? How out telling that to all the cultures that have a superstition that seeing a bird portends a death in the family?? Sound familiar?
3- "LAZY WRITING"- Stop it. Just stop! You are NOT writers- you DO NOT know what you're talking about. STFU!
4- "Duh...why did Adama go off BY HIMSELF??? That goes against his character arch/ development/ ie some other such shit you once heard in a college intro to theatre class!" - Uh, he was DYING! How many shots of the old man popping pills, swilling booze, and breaking down do we need to have shoved in our faces to see that his life is reaching the end???
5- "Dur....if it's SCIENCE FICTION then it CANNOT have a spirtual element!!! That's LAZY WRITING!!!"
Really? Tell that to STAR WARS,STAR TREK, anything Joss Whedon ever did, and ..oh yeah BATTLESTAR GALACTICA/ TOS!!!!
Jebus, people!!! Just...stop. -
On the Ship of Lights, Starbuck was resurrected by the "angels" after he was killed by the "devil" Count Iblis. It was all explained - that these mystical angel dudes did it and all, and being so buttoned down like that, it lost a bit of the mystery that made it compelling, somehow diminishing the efforts of the protagonists.
All in, if I'm going to have deus ex machina - literally the diety that exists outside of the plot - exerting its force on my characters -nu-Starbuck's resurrection is no worse than the old, and IMO more compelling. -
i wanna see it! where the torrents at? ha
-
THAT is an interesting theory and may possibly explain why the writing spun out of control so badly. It makes me wonder if most of the brilliant ideas behind BSG were really the work of one or two people who were lost post-strike.
Anyway, very interesting point. -
no torrents, one reason...that non-disclosure keeps me from doing so. :) but you're all invited to my place for a viewing...hahaha
-
I think you finally nailed it on the head about the pigeon. Good job. Some people here just don't look at metaphor and get it's a comparison for something. Another way to see it to reach better understanding. Those same people look at impressionist or abstract paintings and say " What's the big deal? I could have done that ". So literal it's really kind of sad.
-
You're not making me feel better by citing the fact that the original series sucked -- it REALLY sucked. The REST of this series was magnificent and intriguing and then the resolution to all the complex threads was "God-thing wanted it that way". Why send in resurrected Kara? "God-thing wanted it that way" Why not just send in Adama's dead son? "God-thing didn't feel like it". Why not just intervene to keep Kara from being killed in the first place then fill her head with additional visions like God-thing's been doing from the first? "didn't feel like it". Why have ANY specific event of the storyline occur as it did? "God-thing wanted it that way". THAT'S why its BAD BAD writing -- its not lazy, its just BAD. On top of this show that was FILLED with WONDERFUL writing, with a story that I LOVED, that I couldn't WAIT to see the resolution of... Who was it who mentioned the 5 course meal? Now I've got the taste of shit in my mouth and the series is over.
-
That was one of the best moments in television history.
-
Expressing your opinion? By calling BSG and the ones who watch it every name in the book on the day of the very last episode? OH by the way, how many stargate shows have there been so far? How many talkbacks have there been about any of them? Why would you think there would be on for the new series? I don't know why I continue to feed a pathetic troll like you..Well I'm done now. Now maybe just maybe you'll starve and die off.
-
It was exciting, it was shocking, it was sad, and it was a mind fuck.
-
Re- your comments about the end of WWII- and the situation in BSG-
-My opinion is that the BSG situation would be even worse at the end of WWII we stopped hostilities towwards the Japanese and hel rebuild their country because we were a superpower- Now if we were reduced to 30k on the run americans, dont you think that the group would never ever stop against the Japanese until every single Japanese and/or American was dead? At the end of the Mini series, the Cylons decided to chase the humans because if ANY escaped their great great great great grandchildren would want revenge- the Cylons admitted it, and was the ONLY reason they went after them- to stop a future revenge- see episode "33". The Cylons had the new colonies (for whatever unexplained reason) and didnt need to chase humanity- except for ferar- of a retribution that any people wold want- I would want it and so would you if an alien group killed everyone you knew
Of course this is just LAZY PC political writing to show us that we are just like the terrorists from Al Quaida of some such bullshit- unrealistic, pandering and lazy.
Fuck the PLAN, Fuck Caprica and REVENGE FOR THE 12 COLONIES- seriously. Baltar should have been hanged by his neck until dead. -
Re- your comments about the end of WWII- and the situation in BSG-
-My opinion is that the BSG situation would be even worse at the end of WWII we stopped hostilities towwards the Japanese and hel rebuild their country because we were a superpower- Now if we were reduced to 30k on the run americans, dont you think that the group would never ever stop against the Japanese until every single Japanese and/or American was dead? At the end of the Mini series, the Cylons decided to chase the humans because if ANY escaped their great great great great grandchildren would want revenge- the Cylons admitted it, and was the ONLY reason they went after them- to stop a future revenge- see episode "33". The Cylons had the new colonies (for whatever unexplained reason) and didnt need to chase humanity- except for ferar- of a retribution that any people wold want- I would want it and so would you if an alien group killed everyone you knew
Of course this is just LAZY PC political writing to show us that we are just like the terrorists from Al Quaida of some such bullshit- unrealistic, pandering and lazy.
Fuck the PLAN, Fuck Caprica and REVENGE FOR THE 12 COLONIES- seriously. Baltar should have been hanged by his neck until dead. -
howtomakeparagraphsthis was a test.
-
woo-hoo! thankyou.
-
In the context, its insignificant... but I can't help but reflect how stupid that is. I know its necessary for the whatever-point about this being "our world" (oh wow, man, blow my mind, it was Earth after all...). But seriously-- have you ever had a toothache and not been able to get to a dentist? 150,000 years ago these people understood nutrition and hygiene and plumbing and agriculture and law and they didn't bother to pass any of that on? Y'know, David Brin made the point about "ancient astronauts"... if they came to our world in the past, taught the people how to make big stone things seen from space, and didn't bother to teach how to avoid PLAGUE... then FUCK THEM.
-
...first time commenting.
The abandonment of decadence - that's what I got from the final episode's flashbacks. Since cylons evolved from human hubris and 'lustful' endeavours, the flashbacks served to show how the main characters abandoned the decadence and became morally ready for the true test ahead.
Examples:
1) Laura Roslin - her sending the young student home after their sex, and offering to represent the mayor on the phone.
2) Tigh and Ellen - Tigh is jubilant at the relationship of love with Ellen, abandoning the strippers around him, and focusing on Ellen alone.
3) Lee/Kara - how they did not have sex when Lee's brother awoke, and shook hands in the end.
4) Bill Adama - how he both refused to take the lie detector test, and also when he looked up at the stars after throwing up.
Moore said that Caprica is "a vibrant society…at the height of power and decadence…so it’s a thriving, vibrant culture that’s going to come apart..."
So the main characters, in the flashbacks, showed their abandonment of decadence, in 'preparation' for their new (as yet unknown) missions ahead for the humans and cylons.
Just a thought. -
HAHAHA!i will never have to postwithout knowing if everthing will fitin the subjectlineever again!hahahahhaha!
-
stop whinnying assface. will continue to make fun of BSG just because of you.
-
Mar 22, 2009 6:23:05 PM CDT
they gave up all the luxuries of technology and went permanan
by alice 13
starbuck was resurrected which meansshe can feed the multitudes with5 loaves and 5 fishes and turn water into wine soadama is a happy camper.
-
i beat the living hell out of you
-
All that time and joyous mental effort trying to piece together the puzzle of what all the clues meant and what was REALLY going on... Was Baltar a cylon? How are they getting information into his brain... Why bring back fake Kara? What's the plan? ALL OF THAT -- the answer is ... THERE IS NO ANSWER, IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. There was nothing to figure out, it was just a supernatural whim.
-
carry on with whateverur doing.
-
i wasnt really gonna beat you, i was just kidding, but if i find u i just might.
-
i honestly dont have the will to try and figure out what you meant.
-
Thanks...like everything, its open to debate. Art/beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
@ BubbaDestructo - interesting analysis...
Re: caprice - Fundamentally the show is about family and lengths we go to maintain that structure at whatever cost but What I liked most about caprica (and this wasn’t explored in the promo) is the mono vs. polytheist debate - especially in a world where having multiple 'gods' allows people to make excuses for their evil deeds by aligning themselves to a dogma that supports their ideals/morality... I hope this is explored more in the series ultimately leading us to understand how the centurions came to know ‘the one true god’… -
How do you know they didn't pass things down to our ancestors? 150,000 years is a pretty significant amount of time, technology and information evolves, changes, and is often lost over millenia. Seems like every day archaeologists discover things we never thought possible in the ancient world, things that have been forgotten about.
For example, ancient electricity producing batteries have been found in the ruins of Babylon. Some believe they were just used for electroplating, others believe they were actually used to power something, but no one knows. Whether for electroplating or for power, this is an amazing piece of technology for such a "primitive" culture, and yet it is something that we thought we had discovered only recently.
As for plagues, there's no way the small handful of scientists/doctors would be able to diagnose, catalog, and cure the unknown diseases on an unknown planet, it would take a lifetime for each disease. And then where would they get the medicines from? It would take another lifetime to survey, catalog, and then extract useful medicines from local flora and fauna. I'm sure Cottle would have tried, but it's not even realistic he would have had much success.
Further, the diseases we have today cannot possibly be the diseases that existed 150,000 years ago, diseases evolve just like any other biological organism, and medicine Cottle created back then would be useless today as the disease would have evolved beyond the medicines ability to destroy it. -
X Factor, I couldn't have said it better myself.
I think it was a BRILLIANT way to go out. The answers had been in front of our faces since first season. As far as most of you hating on the ending, whatever. I expected to see Royslin and Adama go down with the Galactica-they didn't. THANK GOD! The ending to the show was bittersweet. I felt for the Chief, and especially Lee. Lee seemed to lose the most out of everyone-his wife, Starbuck, and his father. Yet, he seemed to be at peace with this.
Getting to hear the HENDRIX-All Along the Watchtower was nothing special however, very fulfilling for me.
Also, Hera WAS important-WITHOUT her, they would have died. So, I feel its safe to say that while Starbuck was known as being the bringer of death (taking them to Nuked earth), Hera was the bringer of life- giving them the directions to new earth as well as being the first hybrid. -
Re: Baltar's punishment. The fact that Baltar was shoved out an airlock two years ago has always bugged me. It seems especially ridiculous after Gaeta and Zarek were executed because of the uprising.
So Gaeta and Zarek get deep-sixed because of challenging Adama (and getting a bunch of people killed, obv), but Baltar, who has the blood of an entire civilization on his hands, gets to live happily ever after with Caprica Six? That seems to be a major fail in the overall story. Not to mention an injustice of epic proportions.
-
arent we all gonna die by the year 2012 anyway? why bother.
-
Man I'm jealous, last year I was working for a website that was on Skiffy's list for screeners, now I'm shit out of luck and have to wait like the rest of the civvies here.
Here's a question for you regarding Caprica that you should be able to answer. Did any of the familiar imagery or locations from BSG make it's way into Caprica? Specifically, do they show the military, and what uniforms are they wearing? Does the phoenix symbol still appear on every goddam thing they can print it on? Any scenes in the building/fountain area Roslin took a bath in during the finale? Is there any fraking chance we get to see the skeletal beginnings of Battlestars being built?
Stuff like that, how are they tying Caprica into BSG visually? -
The plan WAS gods plan. Think about it. The cylons kept talking about the plan. Baltar, along with Caprica 6 wound up carrying out God's plan. Baltar WAS NEVER a CYLON and it was CLEARLY explained. Cylons never got information into his brain, the gods did.
Kara Thrace was brought back from the dead by the gods to help carry out the plan... -
Mar 22, 2009 6:49:28 PM CDT
what I meant was "that Baltar was *not* shoved out an airlock...
by blrp
Freudian slip, guess I've got murder in my heart.
-
Why God didn’t work in Galactica has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. Religion certainly was in the background in Galactica. Religious concepts and beliefs motivated characters. People and visions and their gods and cylons had their god. But they always remained concepts. Since Cylons could generate virtual worlds in their minds, and people had visions there always was the question of what really separates humans from cylons. And of course, Baltar would see the “angle” Caprica, and Caprica the “angle” Baltar. Was it a sign of Baltar’s madness or guilt? Was he a cylon? The visions and religious beliefs evoked questions like what does it mean to be human? It challenged the viewer to look at how we objectify the other, and the other is dehumanized. The enemy was an “it,” a “skin-job.” The religious ideas were also part of this dynamic. There was the “human” religion and the “cylon” religion. Us and them. God was in the background as a concept, not a character. The narrative was driven by the motivations of the “human” and “cylon” characters. In the background was the belief that there were other forces, guiding what was going on, but again we learn that the Five were responsible, then John. And who was Starbuck? Was she a cylon? Were their “original “humans” or “cylons” that were behind what was going on? The resolution ought to have emerged out of the motivations, and interactions of the “human” and “cylon” characters. Having God doing it all undercuts that narrative force and resolution of the characters involved through out the series. We end up with an all powerful puppet master that was never a character from the start but only a concept until the very end of the finale. This is why it didn’t work!
-
Wow that was some interesting insight on the flashbacks! Well done!
-
looks like obama.
-
first - there was no proof Baltar was responsible for the destruction of the 12 colonies. It wasn't until Baltar confessed to Roslin (sure she had visions but no hard evidence). The fleet was unaware of Balter's involvement.
Zarek & Gaeta killed many...including the quorum. These acts we punishable by death...there was no forgiveness. And the proof was insurmountable.
It's ironic that the man responsible for great horrors was ultimately the ray of hope for mankind. I love that... its such a contradiction that it works...at the same time, he's coming to terms with his guilt and who is only to have it fully realized at the end... Baltar was absolutely core to the myth of BSG.. killing him early would have killed the show, in every way. -
doesnt mean he exists in Galactica. what characters believe in is different from what the audience knows. the viewer will take their belief as a sign of faith that creates a religious theme for the show. think about it. the show is living it up to you to decide whether their beliefs are true or false. but they dont really matter to the story, what matters is that they attribute all that unexplained elements to a certain reality. whether its right or not doesnt matter at all
-
guys do you want to see a cool picture of me?
here:
http://tinyurl.com/d4qsm9
btw i dont have red eyes thats just the photo :)
-
My ending idea includes beings similar to the Ancients in Stargate, but what you are missing is that the "angelic" beings in the original BSG were similar to the Ancients in Stargate. So my idea is keeping in step with the theme of the original BSG. And it is only something a tossed out that at least makes more sense than the finale. Look at my most recent post "Why God didn't Work"
-
Great questions...
As for the visual tie to BSG - you never see the military or the battlestars, or for that matter any locations that were pulled directly from BSG except for the aerial views of Caprica city (for instance you see several transport ships that look exactly like Colonial one). Although one could make the argument that the Greystones lived next door to Balter based on exterior shots. However that may change once the series airs (not the 2 hour pilot).
The flashbacks in the BSG finale are pretty close to what you’ll experience in Caprica. What you do see more of is the technology that existed (and man is it COOL) – how people communicate, live, play…AMAZING. Tech wise its much more Star trek than BSG.
-
B5 was in a class of its own IMO. Comparing BSG to B5, obviously BSG had superior production values (because its newer and had better CGI), and superior acting, but in all other areas B5 was far superior. B5 had an extremely coherent, nuanced storyline that unfolded itself over 4 seasons (the 5th wasnt very good). There was a definitive begginning, middle, and end. It was the closest i've seen a TV series get to the completeness of a well written novel. The overall theme being man's forging his own self reliance (not relying on superstition) and coming to terms with other lifeforms and viewpoints all while pressing forward. It touched on all the elements BSG was heralded as being 'groundbreaking' for, except B5 did it 15 years earlier. Issues such as religion (handled in a much more intelligent manner), morality of torture, sacrifice of rights in a time of war, fearmongering, racism, war, death, self sacrifice, survivor guilt, etc.
Honestly if you watch B5 from the begginning, set aside the dated effects and occasional blunder, you can see its brilliance on the whole, something BSG lacked. The entire fourth season of Babylon 4 played out like a finale full of revelations that had been paid for and well seeded in the previous seasons. -
Im pretty sure that no one watching the show actually liked Kara's final fate. Theyre lying if they say they did. Kate Sackoff didnt like it herself. Not to mention no one probably likes Lee's final fate either. When people arent satisfied with the resolution of 2 of your major characters, your show flopped as a whole. Come to think of it,I dont think people liked how any of the characters evolved in the end. Baltar sucked, Galen sucked. Ellen sucked.I guess Tigh was still pretty much the same even though he was a cylon. X-Factor , we cant just assume that because he was taking pills Adama was dying. The writers forgot what made the characters great and loveable and thats why the show went off the rails
-
I don't have any problem with the presence of supernatural elements in fiction. There's plenty of great film and literature involving the supernatural. And there's no problem whatsoever with religion and mythology being a part of a fictional human culture. Why wouldn't it be?
However. Battlestar Galactica has featured great direction, great character work, great acting, but it's also spent several years setting up an increasingly intricate universe, full of mysteries which I don't need to restate.And what's the final answer to all those questions?
God did it.
That's not some deep philosophical point. That's just intellectually lazy. In this case it's a cover for really shoddy writing. It's failing to fill your own plot holes and waving gods at the viewers so you don't have to bother explaining anything.
So while I can look back at the series and appreciate many, many parts of it, ending the series by saying "God did it" just pulls the rug from beneath the whole thing. If you turn your brain off you can watch it as a surface level and get some emotional satisfaction out of the acting and the effects and individual storylines, but as a complete arc it disappears into nothingness. Setting up puzzles only to say a wizard did it is nothing but junk food for the mind.
Besides which, back when the series launched there was a deliberate expression of "keeping it real" and limiting the fantastical elements. So you wouldn't get technobabble saving the day.
Well, if saying "God did it" isn't the ultimate in fucking babble I don't know what is. They might as well have been recalibrating the inverse polarizing naydyon generators and realigning the quantum transport buffers every week. In the end it's just a shame that such an enormous amount of good work was built upon such an empty foundation. -
okay im with you there. its what i was trying to say.
-
Re: Baltar. I don't disagree that killing Baltar earlier off would have taken something away from the story, although I don't see him as the core of the show. Somehow giving Baltar a "happily ever after" ending doesn't sit right with me. And since when is Baltar a ray of sunshine? I must have missed that bit in the finale.
-
Any sufficiently primitive magic is indistinguishable from technology.
-
...that despite ALL the hoo-hah regarding the Gods, the one TRUE God, prophecies, scripture, portents, arrows, signs, unexplainable songs, AND the fact that the original series had the SAME type of storyline (Beings of light,Count Iblis/Satan, Appolo being resurected by said beings)and about a 6 week telegram as to what Starbuck really was without engraving it on our foreheads...despite ALL of this, the idea of a third party/ higher party pulling the strings SNUCK UP ON ALL OF YOU?
So tell me, oh Non lazy writers. How SHOULD it have ended?
-
There WAS resolution. No offense, but its just not the kind you wanted. It was bittersweet. Lee lost it all, as I stated before-his wife to suicide, Starbuck, and his father. But he was optimistic.
Adama was broken, but had one good fight left in him, and his took it to the Cylons. Royslin dying was the final nail for him. Like the chief in some aspects, after her death, he probably wanted to be left alone. I don't blame the old man.
Karas fate? I can see why some of you didn't like her ending, but I did. she came back, did what she had to do, her job was finished, she left. As far as Ms. Sackoff not liking her ending, oh well. I didn't like the BS she spat when she would do interviews. Don't feel us bullshit. If you don't want to tell, don't tell (for those confused, she would do interviews and tell us bullshit stories about what was coming). I mean, did you guys want to see Starbuck and Lee get together? I really did not. I liked they would have moments together, and there was a chance of them having something, but there was always something from having it fully happen. Fate? Maybe...but I said it before, and I'll say it again, I think Daybreak was a brilliant way to go out. While some of you aren't satisfied with Ron Moore and Co.'s answers that we have been looking for, I was. Best of all, I loved that some of this stuff was left to interpretation, as it makes for GREAT conversation. -
Choose youre poison, its called sysy for a reason.
PS. it not real.
-
got away with being an accessory to genocide.(he provided six with Caprica's defense specs or somesuch)
-
Choose youre poison, its called sysy for a reason.
PS. it not real.
-
Some of them didn't buy into the ramblings by Baltar and Head Six, regarding the religious theme. Which, this sort of thing has been going on for millions of years, questioning god. The leap of faith?
-
Well I disagree. God didn't control everything. He ( or it ) just gave them a chance to succeed! All through this series it was stressed that God operates independently from the characters and they have free choice. They wouldn't have made it to earth if they hadn't made the right decisions. God ( or whoever ) just offered them. And not directly. They had to work it out for themselves. That's why I think people that are so caught up in this " God saved everything " are missing the point. They could have not listened to Starbuck and all been dead. Gaius could have not listened to in head 6 and been dead. There's more examples if you want them. also it's not like this is new. As others have said Angels and God have been referenced since year 1! And more than a character. Exibit 1 In head 6. I knew she was really there since the middle of season 1. She knew things neither Gaius or the Cylons couldn't have known. Hence the reality of the situation. And of course when we first saw in head Gaius that made it definite. So there wasn't any undercutting. It was there from the start. Apparently you just didn't pick up on that. Also it follows the general plot line of the original BSG as this show always has. I'm sorry but you really missed the point.
-
Couldn't have said it better myself.
-
I don't know.. Balter was one of the most human characters on the show for me. His flaws were the most apparent and his transformation was one of the most emotional. His sermons on the wireless was what i interpreted as the only 'a ray of sunshine' in a dark and dismal time. he consoled tyrol, made peace with roslin and even won apollo's praise (you did good dr.). His part/speech in the CIC was necessary for them to find 'new earth'.
As for being the core - maybe i misstated it...he was one of the core characters. he was far from perfect and if you hold to the axiom 'an eye for an eye' he should have suffered. But I offer a second opinion, I think he suffered throughout his journey...and was riddled with guilt for his actions. His arc of redemption hit home... when someone you love is responsible for great horror do you shun and condemn or do you embrace and hope they change and learn from their mistakes. Possibly even contributing to some greater good that benefits the people instead of themselves. -
Moore said in an interview that originally that Tigh was going to pick him up and throw him off that balcony.
I like that ending better. It would have been casting him out and down. It would have also been like a father killing his son to save everyone from his son.
It would have been a more mythic end imo.
But Stockwell wanted the cowards way out for him. -
Baltar was as much a victim of Cavil's plans as anyone else. He didn't do it with the idea that Caprica would be destroyed. He did it for love and the idea that 6 worked for a company not the Cylons. Had he known I'm sure he wouldn't have done it. However even #6 was under orders. This doesn't make him totally without guilt but on the other hand their government and civilization doesn't exist anymore and Baltar is also responsible for some of the positive things that happend to the survivors. Killing him wouldn't bring back Caprica anymore than some of the other rough decisions that the characters have made that resulted in death of innocents. This was brought out at Baltar's trial.
-
That was Apollo's big solution that came out of a little stroll? The reason everything went bad was because of technology? Didn't it occur to the character that the indigenous humans will eventually develop the technology they he so hates? When was that luddite a central part of Galactica? And it isn't a questions of explaining everything. You are correct that 2001 didn't explain everything put its narrative structure was different so that the viewer was called upon from the beginning to perceiving the meaning from a movie the depended on imagery and silence not a plot that was character driven in the same why as Galactica. There is a difference between spoon feeding the viewer and giving the viewer plot holes or awkward resolutions.
-
well said real deal... i thought I could avoid being negative, but this may be the last time I can say this... 'all you BSG haters are a bunch of frakking toasters' ...hahaha
-
Somehow he gets transported into the modern day and has to work for a hospital in Boston where he solves x-file style murders, talks about his space adventures with Bob in the Mental Patient ward, smokes a lot, and sees an In-Head Baltar giving him clues about a possible Cylon invasion force.
-
Something I want to point out: diseases increased significantly at two points in human development: when herding was adopted (diseases mutated from animals to humans), and when cities were built (and sewer systems were not). While I'm not stating that there would've been no diseases the colonists/cylons could've been vulnerable to, there would've been a lot fewer possibilities than if they had landed on the planet later in human development.
-
is a clueless douche.
-
The Hera plotline also suffers from the conflicting baggage the writers have larded on the Cylon's physical identity since the series inception. First, the skinjobs just look like us but they're stronger and have stuff programmed into their heads--these things imply fundamental differences under the skin even if they are cyborgs and not just metal.
Then it's noted that they CAN be biologically distinguished from humans by tests formulated on the fly (a point which makes Olomos's UN meanderings on race as a theme in BSG kinda odd).
Then the writers see the problem with their grand theme (how can we say "we're all the same if the Cylons really are different?) and suddenly they're able to crossbreed with humans--but not breed with each other which makes little sense if the biology is THAT close (and we must be talking really close because humans and chimps are nearly 99% genetically similar--and Six ain't no chimp). We know they got eggs and sperm (hurray for Tigh). Are the Cylons so backward that they can at least identify what's going wrong reproductively. And then there's the Final Five who can even pass the tests for Human yet still have the brain programming to "wake up" to overrated music, be occasionally strong, talk through the goo in the vat.
Even with all these contrived things taken for granted why study Hera? She's only the offspring of a Cylon who can breed--and its the breeding that's the more special here, not the being born. You'd really want to dissect Athena (and Helo for good measure) to understand how this happened (remember at this point Cavil can't know if Hera, like many biological hybrids, may be sterile or otherwise "special"). There are lots of fun and exciting reasons to stock up on Sharon models but this might be one.
But then again, if the price of survival was becoming exactly the thing he loathed, identical to humans, then Cavil's agenda should be exterminating Hera and instead pursuing resurrection tech and the ability to build new, less human models.
Indeed, in retrospect, you can't say the writers have shown any respect for how the series began if they can't treat the very nature of their characters as something more solid than a flushable whim. -
Is the footage of all the robots. Ok, yeah, we get it: humans vs robots may suck (especially since we all saw The Matrix). But humans could just as easily wipe themselves out without inventing cylons; I would've prefered a more universal message of tolerance and non-genocide than one that requires robots.
-
"3- "LAZY WRITING"- Stop it. Just stop! You are NOT writers- you DO NOT know what you're talking about."
Actually I am and I know quite a bit about the subject. Putting that aside, one doesn't need to be a writer to necc recognize bad writing. -
When Stargate wins a Peabody award and the cast and creative team behind the show addresses the UN concerning the themes and social commentary of the series... then I will be able to take you seriously.
-
didnt explain everything withtin the framework of that story, and it HAS been criticized for that. Regardless, there is an underlying story that is consistent and makes sense, even if the blance of that story is presented elsewhere.
-
Missed the point again! And I'm not upset about anything because it didn't " Fail ". If you listen to Apollo it wasn';t the technology but the way they used it! The very fact of the way they treated their self aware creation ( toasters ) underscores that. So the solution a clean slate to avoid what's happened before. Don't give the natives tech and start on the fast track to a high tech society. That moves faster than their morals. That's what happened before ( this was in Apollo's talk with his father ). Give the natives the best things about them. Their ideals and culture. Not their tech so they can go out and make guns to destroy each other. This gives them a chance to develop over time and hopefully not make the same mistakes in their rush for more knowlege. If they had built that city how long do you think it would have been before they started using artificial intellegence again? It would have been a long time ago for us and our earth would have just turned out like the first one. Plus as I've stated they really didn't have much left anyway. No fuel for their ships ( no toothpaste! ). In light of all of this what they did made the most sense. As Adama said considering what they'v been through " Never underestimate the desire for a clean slate ".
-
its unfair to point out awards as PROOF that something works. Especially when people are arguing about the END of a series. I will agree that when the series began, it was a wonder. Interesting characters, unique situations, a unique pov. But it went terribly terribly wrong.
-
" If you listen to Apollo it wasn';t the technology but the way they used it! " You're being disengenuous. The characters were clearly saying they were gong to do it "right" this time. No tech. Ag's point stands.
-
I didnt like the way they all buggered off away from each other either...its not a huge deal i guess but cmon i mean i know they lived in each others pockets for a long time, but when you land on a strange planet were youl be spending the rest of your days..your gonna want a few mates around!
-
Re: Baltar. 1TrueGod, you make a good case. Baltar was certainly one of the most flawed and conflicted character's on the show (which is saying a lot). And I agree that Baltar's wireless sermons did seem to provide the fleet with at least a glimmer of hope, if not a ray. Although, I still think that Baltar's story didn't round out in the way of justice.
Real Deal, I can't agree with you about Baltar being a victim of Cavil's "evil plan." He gave up info, that, in his own words, "could get my head cut-off for treason." The series in general, but especially the finale, puts an awful lot of emphasis on free will and the consequences of free choices. Baltar knowingly committed treason, an act which lead to the downfall of his own civilization. Now that same act of treason may have lead to the beginning of something new and better, but, in an old-fashioned way, I would still call for Baltar to be punished for his crimes. In some ways, treason is the ultimate crime, as it is a fundamental betrayal of the social contract each individual has with his society. And, IMHO, Baltar should pay for that betrayal, in one way or another, before he is granted the opportunity to live happily ever after. -
Not at all. I'm sure they said the same thing when they moved from Kobal to the first earth. They had to try something different because the people that would have gone wrong with the tech would have been their decendants. They need time to work these ideals into our culture so the eventual outcome wouldn't run amok like the first time or the second or the third. Obviously just good intentions didn't work and weren't enough.
-
As has been pointed out already he did suffer. For years.
-
Perhaps the Colonials and Cylons did pass on their know how to a point... I interpreted it as how the Homo Sapiens evolved away from a hunter gatherer culture and developed modern civilizations over 150,000 years.
-
I think Apollo was saying that 'our minds have advanced while our hearts/souls haven't'...by eliminating technology and trying to rebuild a society that was part owner of their own destruction..maybe they could break the cycle knowing what they know now (focusing on the good aspects of mankind, we could potentially break the cycle). It wasn't the walk that lead him to this conclusion, it was what he felt, what he saw around him... a chance at a new beginning. i have no idea what it feels like to be the last of mankind, trying to survive n space for years, but i would imagine i would give up every creature comfort for safety and lush green pastures. after seeing the destruction teaching man a new path from the beginning makes perfect sense to me. sure man will advance and create new technology but maybe this time his heart and soul will stand on equal ground.
-
...SNL is going to a BSG skit where Adama is continuously falling down, drunk-drooling, slobber-sobbing, and puking.
-
Not only is BSG better than Star Wars... it's better than Stargate, Babylon, Firefly, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, and any other ancient Sci-fi opera bullshit you guys compare it to.
-
Re: Baltar. He may have suffered, but no more or less than anyone else in the fleet. There is a difference between suffering and paying for one's crime.
-
Watching a minute of those other shows, and I change it right away. Still love the original Star Wars and Star Treks though.
-
Hold on there young feller! Both Clark and Asimov are the grand daddys of Science Fiction. They had alot of these same ideas and insights long before BSG. I'm sure Ron Moore would agree. Without them their wouldn't be a Battlestar Galactica.
-
You do remember him almost dying more than once? Plus he had to live every moment with the knowlege of what he'd done. I think he undestood his short comings in the end.
-
Why is that unfair? Overall the series was well received critically and won a rather prestigious award for the work - at least up to a certain point.
Also, I think most people would agree that being invited to the United Nations to present your work and its relevance is a big deal. That is a noteworthy accomplishment which most other series do not share. It puts BSG in a fairly exclusive club. -
In your case, sir (or madam) I stand corrected.
Just hate the overused phrase that everyone latches onto.
-
And as I've said killing him wouldn't have brought anyone back. Also if you do that then you have to do it to any of the people where tough decisions that others have made that resulted in the death of innocent people.
-
It just happens to take place in Space. Even the writers have said that before.
-
Wow. What an impact. Truly an emotional rollercoaster.I love the way religion is addressed. "God" is not good nor evil, we make these things. "God" is that which we can't explain...that overmind we all share, that unexplained force that ties everything together. Anyone that claims to understand the inner working of the universe is crazy. We perceive a small spectrum of light. "Sounds" are just vibrations bounced off our eardrums. How can we know what is "really" going on?
Either way, regardless if I didn't agree with a plot point here or there, I felt that I got an emotional conclusion, with closure. The finale was true BSG through and through. Awesome battles, great character moments, ballsy deaths and storytelling....even if I had a couple of ideas that I thought were "Better", it doesn't take away my enjoyment of this finale. It had everything I wanted, and it touched on all the mysteries, even if some were left ambiguous. I loved the idea that some people in our modern times can have visions or see the future so to speak because there's some tiny amount of Cylon blood in there somewhere.
This is one of the only shows I've followed with such vigor...I will miss it and seeing all those characters I've grown with and drank with, lol. At least they got a final chapter before the network killed it mid-season or they had to replace any actors.
.....oh yeah....President Lampkin FTW!!!! -
BTW: In my original response to dioxholster, I was making a point about his overall disdain for the rebooted BSG series... not his (probable) dislike for the Series Final and whether it is flawed or not.
-
And BSG sir, is no Arthur C Clarke.
-
My private fantasy. A series that picks up the day after, with factions of humans and cylons that refuse to give up the old lifestyle, culture, etc. Frak the loosers who decided to go live alone in the woods: it all seems a good idea today, when it's all sunny and you're near the base camp. But what about tomorrow when the wheather turns bad, the animals start attacking, etc?
-
Saying BSG is better than Isaac Asimov is fucking retarded beyond belief. I hope your momma slaps your face for blasphemy you moron.
For one thing, Asimov correctly surmised that humanbeings would be stupid beyond all reason if they created tools(robots) that could turn around and kill us all, hence the Three Laws of Robotics. He's absolutely right, and we would be fools not to implement safeguards along the same lines.
Which is also what makes I, Robot the movie such a goddam abomination. Take Asimov's anti-killer robot stories and turn them into a story about killer robots? Fucking Hollywood halfwits, for fuck's sake! Asimov HATED killer robot stories, said so many times. -
Re: Tough Decisions. I'm confused as to how Baltar paying his debt to the society he helped bring to its end (resulting in a near genocide and a total holocaust)can be conflated with someone, say Adama or Roslin, making tough decisions for the betterment of society (or what's left of it). Baltar made his choice out of lust/love/greed/weakness, while Roslin or Adama had to make tough decisions about the survival of the fleet out of necessity/leadership/obligation. Those seem to be very different choices to me.
-
I really liked it. Why does everything have to be clearly explained? Both Bill and Lee's reactions to finding out she had been resurrected were how we also should feel about her. We DON'T need to know exactly what she was, only that she was her goddamned beautiful frakked-up self right to the end. The only other end they could have had for her would have been living with Lee in the mountains. That would have been a SHIT unrealistic ending for Starbuck. With no ships for her to fly there was nothing else for her. Her job was done and she could go.
-
The central point of my criticism is that the resolution ought to emerge from the characters. If God were defined as a character from the start rather than a concept, the resolution would have worked better. Although, I do agree with others that the problem with having a God in working behind the scenes is that God becomes a lazy devise. "God just wanted it that way." etc. Again, when God was kept as a concept more wight was on the characters and their motivations. Even in real life the Christian God remains in the background (as an uncertainty) so that human choices, responsibility and motivations are in the foreground. We are responsible for our actions. Weather there is a God with a plan etc is a matter of faith. That was true in Galactica, until the ending. In the end "It" is the one tugging on stings that were pulling characters to the resolution in the story. As an aside, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I "missed" things. I just have a different interpretation of what what I viewed. And I think I made a case why I think the ending didn't work. Don't take it personally.
-
Sorry, Awards don't mean much. Yasser Arafat and Al Gore both have Nobel Peace Prizes. Pulp Fiction lost to Forrest Gump at the 1994 Academy Awards. Even if they did, appeals to authority don't win arguments, logic and facts do.
-
The Colonists decided to give up their technology, and send their spaceships into the Sun, because God (or IT as Balter said) wanted them to. The Plan was for the Humans and Cylons to come to this world, which they named Earth. They had to come here for us to be what we are today. I guess that was the Plan. According to Ron Moore, God is beyond our concepts of Good and Evil. I don't know...I don't think I can watch Caprica now, knowing how it will all end 55 years later. I didn't like how Babylon 5 ended either.
-
Again, it takes you to fill all of that in rather than that emerging from the narrative of the series, and the finale. In other words, you can write volumes filling in the plot holes with perfectly sensible explanations, but the fact that you have to do is evidence of the flaws in the finale. And you seem to be getting so upset that one could have a different opinion than you. It demonstrated, to me, that you haven't stepped back enough from a TV show that we both appreciate.
-
i stand corrected
-
So why did he not remember her a few episodes back when he was shaving and she was on the toilet? Was he just being an ass? Or was there something else at work when they were sleeping together? Like- sleep-sex?
-
Lee's final scene is meeting a group of Earth-native humans and humbly kneeing and offering his recently developed philosophical progress to better their fledgling civilization then...stone axe to the head! Kara, who hasn't disappeared, crosses her arms and frantically nods her head a la Barbra Eden in I Dream of Jeannie as the tribesmen approach. Flash forward in time--4 year--and the lights go up on a wizened yet sturdy figure sitting hunched on a makeshift throne perched atop a stack of bodies, some wearing rags of Colonial blue. It is the dour, blood spattered face of King Cottle... and fade to black as John Lennon's "Imagine" wafts over a background track of the Admiral recreating the best scenes from A Man Called Horse.
-
Bravo
-
really means a lot. I mean, diplomats know their ps and qs when it comes to storytelling and drama, right? That's why they're such ... great ... screenwriters?Seriously, the same reason why people generally dismiss Hollywood types' politics is the same reason there is NO reason to gauge a dramatic television series' worth by how much discussion it creates at the UN.
-
Thanks for the Kudos- the baltar story was actually a great one- Humanity's greatest traitor- and one with a Mystery, when he is "hellping humanity" he hurts it, and when he is agaisnst humanity, he helps it "Hand of God S1" episode. And when he baceme president on New Caprica it was a cresendo, the greatest traitor is in charge of the Cylon occupation. Then it ends, he becoems a cult leader and politco who ahas a trial? What they would haveairlocked the bastard, a court system after a second genocide- unrealistic, lame PC pandering. Then he goes on to lead a cult? Wha?!!?
A good arc for Blatar would have been to have his etrayal of mankind KNOWN by the fleet and have him work actiely and openly with the Cylons, like a leader to help hunt the humans, and his arc could have been as he becomes the most hated man in what was left of humanity, he uses the old school cylons to start a civil war with the Cylon hive, thus saving Humnaity so they can escap e to earth, baltar then redeems his betrayal, and dies in one last act of defiance against the cylons before dying as they catch him etc etc.
Of course that makes sense and isnt some preachy PC we are all guilty genocide is ok etc bullshti that we got after season 3. Tehre would have beeen no mutiny in realife because EVERYONE WOULD HATE THE CYLONS!!! ZAREK, GAETA AND KANE WERE HEROES- REVENGE FOR THE 12 COLONIES! I'd rather die and serve and die with Admiral Kane than be a traitor like the rest of the fleet of PC poorly written cowards and "angels". -
Thanks for the Kudos- the baltar story was actually a great one- Humanity's greatest traitor- and one with a Mystery, when he is "hellping humanity" he hurts it, and when he is agaisnst humanity, he helps it "Hand of God S1" episode. And when he baceme president on New Caprica it was a cresendo, the greatest traitor is in charge of the Cylon occupation. Then it ends, he becoems a cult leader and politco who ahas a trial? What they would haveairlocked the bastard, a court system after a second genocide- unrealistic, lame PC pandering. Then he goes on to lead a cult? Wha?!!?
A good arc for Blatar would have been to have his etrayal of mankind KNOWN by the fleet and have him work actiely and openly with the Cylons, like a leader to help hunt the humans, and his arc could have been as he becomes the most hated man in what was left of humanity, he uses the old school cylons to start a civil war with the Cylon hive, thus saving Humnaity so they can escap e to earth, baltar then redeems his betrayal, and dies in one last act of defiance against the cylons before dying as they catch him etc etc.
Of course that makes sense and isnt some preachy PC we are all guilty genocide is ok etc bullshti that we got after season 3. Tehre would have beeen no mutiny in realife because EVERYONE WOULD HATE THE CYLONS!!! ZAREK, GAETA AND KANE WERE HEROES- REVENGE FOR THE 12 COLONIES! I'd rather die and serve and die with Admiral Kane than be a traitor like the rest of the fleet of PC poorly written cowards and "angels". -
Thanks for the Kudos- the baltar story was actually a great one- Humanity's greatest traitor- and one with a Mystery, when he is "hellping humanity" he hurts it, and when he is agaisnst humanity, he helps it "Hand of God S1" episode. And when he baceme president on New Caprica it was a cresendo, the greatest traitor is in charge of the Cylon occupation. Then it ends, he becoems a cult leader and politco who ahas a trial? What they would haveairlocked the bastard, a court system after a second genocide- unrealistic, lame PC pandering. Then he goes on to lead a cult? Wha?!!?
A good arc for Blatar would have been to have his etrayal of mankind KNOWN by the fleet and have him work actiely and openly with the Cylons, like a leader to help hunt the humans, and his arc could have been as he becomes the most hated man in what was left of humanity, he uses the old school cylons to start a civil war with the Cylon hive, thus saving Humnaity so they can escap e to earth, baltar then redeems his betrayal, and dies in one last act of defiance against the cylons before dying as they catch him etc etc.
Of course that makes sense and isnt some preachy PC we are all guilty genocide is ok etc bullshti that we got after season 3. Tehre would have beeen no mutiny in realife because EVERYONE WOULD HATE THE CYLONS!!! ZAREK, GAETA AND KANE WERE HEROES- REVENGE FOR THE 12 COLONIES! I'd rather die and serve and die with Admiral Kane than be a traitor like the rest of the fleet of PC poorly written cowards and "angels". -
Definitely an allegory for the show falling apart. The Cylon goo represents a bunch of malarkey trying to smooth over plot holes.
-
Whatever
-
http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/34405#comment_1717931
and sorta right
http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/20921#comment_957371 -
It was too convenient from a story perspective. They wanted to shock us with the Wasted Earth reveal, and they did, but they weren't brave enough to stick with their guns. Wasteland Earth has no meaning now, no significance. The Earth they were looking for all this time had to be our Earth for it to mean something to the Earth bound audience... turns out they weren't looking for our Earth. THAT's too convenient.
-
I don't know man... most countries send their best and brightest to foreign diplomatic posts... It's less of a "stamp of approval" and more of an indicator that the series struck a chord with people who work for a world agency which aims to create international law, security, economic development and social progress. comparing the real work the UN does to Hollywood is a little narrow. The UN feeds people and creates international treaties... Hollywood makes movies and TV shows.
-
Knock off the amature psychology. I've debated quite a bit and that kind of intimidation won't work here. I'm not upset. You're just wrong. Also I didn't have to fill in any plot holes. I knew what they were getting at without it being laid out in black and white for me. I guess you didn't. Tell me. You must have seen 2001. They didn't lay out everything there also. What did you think?
-
You need to go back and watch the show again as you've got so much of your facts wrong.
-
"The plan WAS gods plan."
Yes. Which means there was no hidden agenda. There was no conspiracy-- Nothing to "figure out". Nothing, in fact, that made any more sense than any other random series of events. Why give Baltar visions? Why not Adama? Answer: because It-God didn't FEEL like it. Cosmically inscrutable. -
BSG was a great show. But it still doesn't touch B5. IMHO B5 still remains the best scifi show of all time.
-
I think when Baltar asked Starbuck "Who are you?" I think he was being a prick... but he may be referring the events of her "death" and subsequent return. "WHAT are you?"could have been what he meant.
-
"Seems like every day archaeologists discover things we never thought possible in the ancient world, things that have been forgotten about.
For example, ancient electricity producing batteries have been found in the ruins of Babylon."
No. They weren't. You need to stop getting archeology from SCI-FI channel. -
I liked the end of battlestar when it was called Earth 2.
Heh. -
Of course the frakkin bird had meaning, and it was painfully obvious. Birds symbolize spirits, or angels, or omens. But it wasn't original or compelling; they're overdone. And this far along in the Battlestar saga, that scene felt misplaced. It was a momentum killer, incongruous to the urgent pace that usually characterizes a second-to-the-last episode. And fine, the show is about characters--but we've seen Lee like this before, drunk, dejected, talking to himself. Even in judging BSG as a character driven show, that scene was superfluous--didn't add to what we already know of Lee. I'm sure it looked brilliant on the page, but in viewing it came across as indulgent of the writers. It felt more like a deleted scene. It's the same with the strip joint scenes--they didn't reveal anything new about the characters. We know the admiral and Tigh loved to drink. Why repeat that character trait and give it 3 full scenes NOW when the story should be winding down? Anyone with me?
-
I seemed to remember the exchange being something like "What was your name again?" as he continued to shave.
-
Ok, first off, I'm not going to debate the finale - either you loved it or you hated it - there isn't much grey area on this one. But, holy cow, this TB has over 2K posts, and people still have deep feelings over the show. Wow. Love it or hate it, it is YOUR choice. In either case, Ron Moore thanks you for your continued support.
-
Ahem!
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v16/i2/battery.asp
I'm sure there are better links but this one gets the point across. -
"I interpreted it as how the Homo Sapiens evolved away from a hunter gatherer culture and developed modern civilizations over 150,000 years."
Yeah. And they spent 120,000 of those years passing down that knowledge without writing or leaving any artifact indications of it. Like I say, its a peripheral point-- but y'know, Bill Adama died two years later, in slow agony-- mind you, from a toenail infection. That's what they condemned all their descendants to by not retaining technology. -
Yes, I'm sorry, I should have said "you need to stop getting your archeology from 'answering Genesis'"
-
But I love the show.
-
I don't believe there were Babylonian batteries-- I'm damn near certain there wasn't Babylonian electroplating-- and I know how dicey the field of archeology (especially middle-eastern) is. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.
-
It was still a GREAT SHOW. If it were a piece of crap, I wouldn't care that the ending was a nonsensical cop-out.
-
the scene when she is alone with what's his name (her husband that got shot and wound up soaking in a tub for the rest of the season)and said that together they would figure out what the song meant. Who's head was she in then? I'm not sure I buy the in head theory.
-
the scene when she is alone with what's his name (her husband that got shot and wound up soaking in a tub for the rest of the season)and said that together they would figure out what the song meant. Who's head was she in then? I'm not sure I buy the in head theory.
-
The more I think about it, the less I like the ending. At first I only disliked the plus 150,000 years bit, but now thinking I dislike the Earth 2 as well.
In one relatively recent episode Roslin mentioned something about "home" being with this group of people, so its not a place but a feeling, a sense.
I think I much prefer that notion, than finding a second Earth.
Again there is no way RDM could make everyone happy, impossible, but was still hoping for a bit more of a balanced ending.
-
You may be right... Adama may have died from a toenail infection.
But Baltar could have taught those tribal people agricultural techniques and animal domestication.
Tyrol could have introduced metallurgy and simple engineering.
Tigh may have shown them how to binge drink and get pissed!
Let those influences bake for a few hundred thousand years and viola: Instant civilization... kind like making Sea Monkeys only on a planetary scale. -
hey man, read around and the interview with Ron Moore. She's real, and she even has a viper for god's sake.
-
Am a huge fan of Lost as well, reflecting on the BSG finale and seeing how it ended, it makes me think about how tough an assignment the Lost guys have.
I think a few lessons could be learnt, but as per my previous post it will be impossible to make everyone happy.
Given what I disliked about the BSG final, for me they need to find a balance between what mysteries they solve and what remain unsolved for us to ponder in our minds for years to come.
Additionally hope that the 4/5 last episodes leading up to the Lost finale, are better done than they were in BSG. Was hoping in light of the BSG final, those previous 4/5 episodes would hold more significance for me, sadly that hasn't happened yet. -
But for 80.000 years afterward there WEREN'T agricultural techniques or animal domestication-- or metallurgy-- or simple engineering-- or binge drinking. That all came in the last 50,000 years (to be generous) -- and progressed very slowly and painfully.
-
...as they were in the original miniseries (where all the Cylons wanted to do was destroy the human race, and all Adama wanted to do was destroy the Cylons), is because of a little thing writers like to call CHARACTER ARCS. Heard of that? Get it? If you want to see a character remain fundamentally the same throughout 4 seasons of a show, watch procedurals like Law and Order or CSI. Great shows and truly great writing have evolving characters where motivations and feelings change as they confront different conflicts.The run of the series was about how both humans and cylons broke the cycle of violence and learned to live together to foster another race...us here on Earth. In order to tell that story, the beginning had to be about BOTH factions locked in a determined struggle to kill each other...Adama hates the Cylons, the Cylons hate the humans. Hence, more action oriented in the beginning. However as the series progressed, as both sides come upon different conflicts and situations (concentration camp planet, trying to fight and losing, learning dear friends are cylons, the belief in God, etc.) they come to realize that an endless battle is pointless, and they need to work together to survive.
But I guess your idea of having 4 seasons of repetitive fighting until one side is destroyed is MUCH better. >>. -
If they'd KEPT the tech, they'd have spared their descendants (grandkids, great-grandkids) all that inconceivable suffering, agony, mourning, etc. (ie: 40 percent infant mortality)
-
Anybody have a reference better than a mythbusters episode that this wasn't simply made up out of whole cloth? Artifact numbers? Formal publication? Provinence? Something beyond "This guy found this in 1927", like something to indicate that it wasn't an 19th century fabrication?
-
I know, those who don't do, teach...and those that don't teach, are talkback haters. I could fall into this category because I was less than impressed by this finale. I'm not a writer, nor do I claim to be. So I'll admit, that as disappointing as this finale was, I'm sure if I were one of the writers, I may not have done any better. STILL--I pose this question to everyone, myself included (especially those that didn't like the finale): How should it have ended? What would you have done differently, now that you've seen the finale?
-
To start off, I already answered the 2001 comparison. Now, you are so sensitive if you thought I was trying to intimidate you. You should be more attentive to what you are writing. Things like "I guess you've missed that, and "missed the point again." (And yes I'm paraphrasing), and that "I don't need things to be spelled out for me in black and white," Is arrogant and doesn't even address my counter arguments at all. Rather than sticking to the points I made in my arguments and countering them, you were off point and personalizing the argument as if you caught everything and have a special insight into the show that others don't. As I stated I just have a different interpretation than you do. When you stick to countering my points with evidence from the show rather than pointing out what you perceive as my lack of observational skills, your arguments carries more weight. Just saying things like "I got it" and then proceed to fill in the plot holes with your imagined explanation, isn't making a case for what actually occurred in the finale. To repeat, accusing others of not getting it and implying that they (me) need to be spoon fed is arrogant.
-
I liked it alot. And the scene where Bill realizes Roslin is dead is one of the best of the series, also Lee saying goodbye to his dad made me choke. Not to mention when Baltar realizes the significance of his childhood and the lessons he learnt from his father. I am a Lost fan but I don't think it's finale will impact me like the BSG one did, because I'm more invested in the BSG characters so I felt good after watching this. Giving everybody closure like that. Lost, I'm kind of iffy about. But that should be a good ending too when it comes, although I seriously fucking hate the direction it went with this season.
-
I understand why some people really liked the finale, I really do. Yes, there were emotionally touching scenes, I agree. And I don't think anyone disagrees about how awesome the battle scene was. If the finale was just the fight, I don't think we'd have as many complainers.But you'll have to understand that a lot of people felt let down by the squandered possibilities of a two hour finale...yes, it's a character driven show. But a lot of the character-centric scenes didn't ADD anything we didn't already know to the characters. We've seen Lee drunk before, we've seen Tigh drunk before. We've spent seasons getting to know these people like our friends and family, we didn't NEED to be sold on the idea that they're human, flawed, emotional, compelling. We had several episodes in the past devoted to showing us how human they were. The bird scene, the strip joint scene just seemed unnecessary in a finale, ESPECIALLY in a show that built up so much mystery, posed so many questions. A lot of viewers felt that the finale should have been used more to answer those questions that teased us over the seasons, in a way that MATCHED the brilliant writing we all associated with the show. A lot of viewers, myself included, felt that the finale was lazily written. I know you loved the finale, I understand why people did. But you can understand too why there are viewers that felt let down.
-
Just to hammer the difference between 2001 and Galactica... 2001's narrative structure was different. There isn't any dialogue in the movie until Dr. Heywood Floyd is on the shuttle, I believe, and that is minimal. Large parts of the movie is driven by imagery, rather than dialogue. So from the start the movie challenges the audience to construct meaning out of the imagery and the minimal dialogue. Does that sound like Galactica? Of course not. so why would you compare the two? What works for 2001 by its very nature can't work for Galactica. They are two different animals. The creators of Galactica choose a narrative structure that demands its own cohesiveness. It can be judged only by that. If it fails, it fails because of faults in its own structure. I was simply pointing those flaws in the finale and with your defense of those flaws.
-
"And as to the characters flipping sides- the adama portrayed in the first two seasons sould NEVER work with any Cylons, "------ No shit, Sherlock. He's changed his opinion given new information. It happens all the time; people grow and change their minds. At one point, Bush had a 90% approval rating.
-
Why didn't they resolve the whole naydydon regenerative hyperballast conundrum?
You know, the more I read arguments defending this, the more and MORE I hate it.
Sloppy, lazy, pointless and, somehow, pretentious, all at once.
Did some jackass actually say the climactic battle was well-choreographed? Let's see. A ship that has been shown to be extremely fragile rams another ship, yet survives. Then, turn a corner. Turn a corner. turn a corner. Apparently, the sick-bay is one corner away from anything just so Mary Two-Expressions can appear magically in the thick of things. Turn a corner. Robot on robot violence (gee, that's a hard one to pull off!) Turn a corner. Pick up little girl. Her kidnapping, so important, resolved in a minute, didn't it? Turn another corner. Somebody shout "Friendlies." Where's Token Black Cylon Doctor? Arrive in CIC. All the other supporting cylons have gotten ahead of you, but don't worry, we killed them off-camera.
Shit, shit, shit. -
with peoples' fickle minds. it had to do with the truth being told, and heard, for the first time during his administration. Prior to Katrina, everybody had their 9-11 earphones on, allowing the neo-cons to rum ramrod over whatever facts they found inconvenient, while the media whimpered, "thanks, sir, may I have another?"
-
Loved the finale.
Best moment for me was Baltar: "I know a bit about farming". That tore me up some. -
If you hate it so much, my recommendation is that you fuck off and let those of us who enjoyed this series talk about it and enjoy it a little while longer.
Usually, your comments are either ill-informed (Tory killed Callie buh-cuz of teh babies!?!?) automatically assuming a plot hole despite a satisfactory alternate explanation (Daniel, anyone?) bizarrely illogical ("Adama wouldn't have sided with the Cylons in Season two!"-- Yeah, no shit.) or precitated by some illogical fit of astounding ignorance ("WHAT!?!?!? Head Six was an Angel!?!?!?!? NO WAY!!!")
If you want to debate merits intellignetly, I'm not talking about you. I'll gladly comment back, though. Who I am referring to are idiots like Dioxsucker who apparently have nothing better to do for the last month or so than post hundreds of messages on an Internet talkback about a show he doesn't even like (which, just incase you missed the implication, MAKES YOU INCREDIBLY PATHETIC. Get a hobby, loser.). -
And you are so much better than dioxholster how, exactly?
He's (she's?) a much better name-caller than you'll ever be.
"Haters are trolls."
Debating merits intelligently. Hm, maybe just me, but there has been a lot of that on here, but all you can seem to come up with, judging from your last post, is "nah-nah-nahnah-nah, infinity." -
I'm not saying people were FICKLE or that Adama was fickle. I;m simply pointing out that time, events, and access to information often change people's perspectives and opinions.
Of course Adama wouldn't side with the Cylons in Season Two... but that was before he found out that Tigh was a Cylon. And the Chief. And Possibly Starbuck (the thought certainly was in his mind). That was before he came to trust Athena, and see that she was indeed worthy of trust, as was Tigh. It was before Lee made Adama question whether he would care if Zak came back as a Cylon. It was before his nervous breakdown, and before a faction of Cylons offered their help.
People change their opinions. Idiots who are bashing the writing remind me a saying: "A FOOLISH CONSISTENCY IS THE HOBGOBLIN OF SMALL MINDS." -
They should have Hera be the lone survivor floating in space in the mysterious shiny viper. There in outer space all alone she "projects" a heaven where all the humans and cylons are happy.
All along the watchtower is being played on harps with an angelic sounding choir.
Roslin and Adama are together in their cabin, Gaius ,Caprica 6 and his father are laughing, everyone finds there place of peace in the universe.( all those tearful moments you wanted.)
Then it cuts back to Hera and she is in the middle of dark space. Then you see an amazing "CG" eyegasm of a galaxy being created (with the original bsg theme song slowly transitioning into a rocking instrumental version of all along the watchtower in the background.) A closer zoom reveals a planet. It's a planet that looks like Earth. You watch in time lapse as the planet becomes green and the continents shift.
Fast forwarding all the way till present day when you start to see satellites and the space shuttle landing on the moon (music transitions into Dylan's version then into Hendrix's.
Meanwhile you're seeing small nuclear mushroom clouds on earth Then the camera suddenly turns around and you see Hera slowly twirling her finger and then she gives a peculiar smile and then vanishes.
Boom! What the frak?
What do you think? -
Scrap the 150,000 years plus scenes, some have said it was essential, to me it was not just unnecessary, but a little silly as well.
Finding Earth 2, honestly still debating that internally. Did they need to find a physical home, not 100% sure they did.
Would have the peace been a better option with Cavill's cylons, to try and break the cycle. Hera would have been significant enough, being the impetus to get the two paties to confront each other and make a choice on their future.
To this point, for me the battle would have had more dead, well more significant characters besides just Boomer. Thought her flashback worked well (As compared to the other Flashbacks -will get to them later). The even more dead really driving the point home, that they need to change.Maybe had Kara's song be more about finding the Cylon fleet, than Anders finding it.
I would have had Kara not Baltar as the influential person in trying to broker the peace deal. On what Kara was still torn on this one, not a literal angel, but maybe from some advanced lifeorm/"god" etc that sees this war and wants to help broker a peace. Rather than being a controlling type entity, an influential entity. It's not an easy one.
Would have been happier to have Baltar's in head be a manifestation of his inner demons, rather than something literal.
Re flashbacks, for me these were season 1 or 2 flashbacks. In my scenario above with an extend battle and more significant losses, would have seen a few more flashbacks like Boomer which were poignant and done well.
For me it would have ended with Lee commanding the fleet (his father dying from wounds incurred in the battle, like his ship) from the Baseship, leading the fleet on their continued search for a home.
Will the peace hold, will they find a physical place to call home, all stuff for us to ponder in the years to come.
Sorry more of a rant, than well structured, but hope my ideas and thoughts are kind of clear. -
"And you are so much better than dioxholster how, exactly?"----It's not a matter of being netter. If Dixsucker wants to stop trolling, I'l happily stop calling him a dixsucker. I'm here because I'm talking about a show I enjoy very much. I don't feel the need to come in here, post spam (and yes, that's what dixsucker is doing. Go through the posts and see.) and intentionally try to piss people off.
"He's (she's?) a much better name-caller than you'll ever be."----Like I give a damn.
"Debating merits intelligently. Hm, maybe just me, but there has been a lot of that on here,"
Yeah, and I'm glad to continue debating intelligently... I believe I said that already in the very paragraph you just quoted from.
" but all you can seem to come up with, judging from your last post, is "nah-nah-nahnah-nah, infinity.""-----There's no debating a troll. They should simply be banned. Unfortunately, AICN mods are worthless. -
How about the BBC News - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2804257.stm
-
They may even change them as continuously as every other week.
These people, usually, end up on medication. Or, in an institution. Other people tend to grow and change more naturally over time.
This was FICTION. It should be judged as fiction. In fiction, characters exist for a reason, and they change for a reason. this reason is, often, a plot. A plot is usually pre-determined. If said plot spends a lot of time presenting itself in bold type saying, "Look at this. Look at this. This will be important later" then said plot had better know where it is heading. Plots, you see, don't have the advantage real people have of being fickle.
Ronald Moore has admitted he's made much of this up after season three as he's gone along. That's all anyone needs to know.
All of your arguments to the contrary? Deflated. -
You have forgotten the face of your father.
-
One man's troll is another's life-partner.
What are you, a trollist?
It's the internet. Learn to deal. Not everyone is going to agree with you. And not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.
I have no idea what kind of person dioxholster is or isn't. I don't really care. I don't have anything invested in the opinions of anonymous Talkbackers.
His (her) handle is right up there in every blue subject line. Pisses you off? Ignore the posts.
Free speech on the internet, even if it hurts your feelings! Moderators are fascists. -
Ka like the wind.
-
His "change" wasn't much of a leap at all. Since the village idiots can't seem to remember any details at all about the show I know they won't recall two important pieces of Adama-dom.
WAAAYYY back in the mini-series he basically said mankind deserved the holocaust in the speech he gave during the Galactica's retirement ceremony.
Later in "Hero" it was revealed that he not only thought humanity was complicit in its own demise, but that he believed he was directly responsible.
... -
I think everything fits together logically. Those who can't see it haven't really been paying attention. Most of the plot points for the ending were laid out as early as the first two seasons. It's there, if you care to go back and watch from the start.
-
I was wondering what had happened to Cavil's Cylon posse. He's practically in the CIC (after all Roslin hides from them as they go past, she turns two corners and she's just outside the door) and yet when we get to the CIC, the Centurions are nowhere to be seen (not even their smashed remains) and yet somehow Simon and Doral got there (and are dead) and Cavil's horizontally conked out on the floor.
-
Interesting thoughts. I know it's easy to be a monday morning quarterback, to say HOW we would have ended something once we've seen it. But it's still fun, and inevitable. Yes, I'd have more deaths in the battle sequence. Is it cliche? Sure it is. But when watching dramas with a military setting, a lot of the bittersweet satisfaction we viewers get is from getting attached to the characters, then seeing them die heroically, tragically, or even senselessly...but always in a memorable way that would serve as an exclamation point to the life we got to know them to be. If Helo died in that firefight, it would have been tragic, but it would have been more memorable. If Adama went down with Galactica, it would have been tragic, but more memorable. If Tyrol died, it would have been more memorable. It would have been cliche, but a lot of viewers would find it satisfying...it would immortalize the characters.
-
hwebabnkjefabs
-
mark me down as satisfied. true to the original but it's own animal. kudos to all involved, it's been a blast.
-
It sealed the notion that this was an ongoing "battle" and clarified that what we have been watching these last few years represented a change in that pattern, thus the time jump of that magnatiude was the ppay off and the happy ending. The whole concept of Battlestar Galactica, the core concept, was them finding Earth. I liked the spin that was offered up when that Earth that they finally reached was destored by war. But I'm glad they didn't end the season like that. Dark doesn't always equal greatness, although in these cynical times that's what fanboys prefer. Ending with them just sttling on this new Earth would be lackluster in my opinion. I'm glad they didn't do that. They actually already did that with New Caprica. This time jump and the revelations that followed was a great message, and it encompassed everything that Battlestar Galactica was about. Maybe naysayers feel that bringing that world into our own reality took away from the fantasy land that Ron Moore created in this re-imaginging. Who knows? We can't argue whether it was a right choice or a wrong choice to end it like that. We can only discuss why each individual loved it or hated it. There's no right or wrong answer... but it makes for a great discussion. For me, it worked. I like the different dynamics it offered to this excellent show. And it answered just enough without making the mistake of having to explain each and every little thing in the end. Anyway, it's done and to be fully realistic, it was never going to end the way we all had hoped or imagined. There was no way to please everyone. It was a great send off to a brilliant show.
-
your don't go from expressing an opinion to be condescending and dismmisive. Comments like "Those who can't see it ..." . Really don't help your cause.
-
The final episode actually completed the story quite nicely. Some of the events aren't massively original (presumably RDM has read the Hitchhikers guide trilogy) but it was all executed very well. There were a few emotional choke moments, a much desired battle with the other cylons and a resolution to prety much every storyline since the original pilot. A fantastic achievement for the writers. Artistically I think it was a little sad looking in places. The endless corridors were quite cheap and nasty. I don't think the director really nailed all the departure scenes (particularly the bill/lee farewell) and IMO there really was a scene of hugs and cheers missing. HOWEVER. I really enjoyed it. I can only think of 2 other original scifi tv series which have successfully completed an ongoing narrative and I think BSG has surpassed both of those.
-
I'm glad show runners rarely listen to fans.
-
People who like this show are limp wristed shirt lifters.
Sho Nuff. -
in ancient Egypt was around 30 or so--I imagine it was significantly lower at this point in Earth-human history. So the entire educated fleet made a conscious decision to condemn their grandchildren to hard, fast and nasty lives. Another schism with multiple factions would've been far more in keeping with the characters as established. (people change their minds often but their characters not so much)
-
In conclusion, it rocked and the end was in perfect keeping with the mythology of the show that had been set from episode 1. Baltar "I know a bit about farming" for the win!
-
Some have posited that the sudden use of mitochlorians in Star Wars and the sudden use of Angels in a literal and non-figurative/mythological sense in BSG are two distinct methods. Not true. Both are examples of a bait-and-switch as far as the previous ontology of their universe was concerned. In Star Wars, we accept the mystical supernature of the force as part of the Star Wars fantasy universe, that is why the sudden unnecessary introduction of mitochlorians grates so badly. Same with BSG. We accept the realist element of the BSG universe, we don't expect any miracles to happen in the great dramatic moments, we accept that only elbow grease and human determination are going to save the day. The religious elements that we acknowledge can be seen as more of a mystical spirituality rather than a full on interventionist supernature that reaches down and saves the day. This is why all the deus ex machinas in the finale were so unsatisfying for me: with the realism that preceded it the ending jarred as badly as an angelic intervention at the end of Saving Private Ryan would.
-
I'm not comparing the work Hollywood does with that of the UN. I'm saying I don't go to Hollywood for politics, why would I go to the UN for entertainment advice?
-
I actually don't think midichlorians change much at all, actually. It just makes it a little more corny-sounding. Functionally it's the same: Strong in the force = high midichlorian count. I also think having a well-thought out use of deus ex machina wouldn't have necessarily been out of place in BSG. I think at least a hint of something of that nature would have been wholly appropriate, given what has gone before. But it was used too, too much. I don't actually object to having a bit of "God did it", just not to solve all the questions they evidently couldn't be fucked to answer otherwise. But even that wasn't surprising considering the show's recent history.
-
Why does leaving unanswered questions and gaps constitute a flaw? Since when? In my opinion, that's what makes a great story. You aren't spoon fed everything like a drooling invalid incapable of figuring things out on your own. IN FACT, I completely hate it when a show seems to go out of its way to explain something to you like you're the average talkbacker; especially, with crappy dialogue. Ex: 'Oh, yeah, that's why we can't just use the portal to leave, because...(place info you should've been able to figure out on your own here."
-
most of what they do is (bull)shit.
-
Yes of course it's different. However it's the most extreme example of a plot line not completely laid out for you. That's why I sited it as it makes you think about what little narative there is. And any story can change in midstream as far as format. There's no absolute rule that says it can't. So if BSG got a little more cerebral at the end you have a problem with that? And by the way you didn't answer my question. What did you think? Did you get it?
-
Of course there are instances where unanswered questions are okay, even intriguing. There are lots of them, in fact. Just not on BSG. As with everything else, the trick is to do it artfully. BSG has not done that. If they had there wouldn't be so many questions about their intent. There are plenty of things that have unsolved mysteries and most viewers understand that is what the creators are going for. In the case of BSG, I don't buy that all the gaps were intended. It just comes off as sloppiness or laziness (particularly in a show like this where most of the things are set up as if they WILL have a concrete payoff). Whether it was that or poor execution is the question, because I actually enjoy some mysteries left unsolved if it's done in a compelling manner. Anyway that's not the biggest problem I have with BSG. There's a difference between mystery and plotholes and there were far too many of those - combined with the character inconsistencies, that's what sank this show.
-
..all of a sudden the ending of I Am Legend seems quite restrained and reasonable! Never thought I'd find myself saying that...
-
But once again God didn't solve the problems for them. Lot's of people died along the way until they figured things out. The influence of " God " or whatever is in the form of a ghost in the machine. Answers were put out there but the Humans and the Cylons had to find them for themselves.
-
I kept expecting/hoping he'd crash into a mountain or something. He really took his eyes off the road for a while there ... boo hoo BLAMMO!!!
-
Like I say, the God stuff doesn't even bother me too much, but maybe the complaint is less that God affected change, but that the mechanism for a lot of things ends up boiling down to the presence of God. And for instance in the case of Head Six, it's just a shitty explanation. You can only push "God works in mysterious ways" so far before you start wondering what the point of having a God is in the first place. That's the case with the "angel" Head Six, who for the majority of her existence did nothing to indicate she was part of the plan. It's not fair to retcon and say "well everything worked out in the end, so therefore everything Head Six did makes sense - after all it got them to their destiny." Logically it may technically work, but dramatically it's hard to swallow, a kind of end justifies the means ... only once you know the end. There has to be some consistency or pattern inherent in her behavior to sell it that she was actually pushing or guiding things in a specific direction. The God of BSG is just not compelling dramatically, it just comes off as a catch-all explanation that doesn't add anything besides easily answering some questions.
-
Instead of intervening directly he leaves little clues and motifs for humans and cylons to decipher in order to avoid their annihilation. This is still intervention, albeit a proxy intervention, put into action so that the protagonists can fulfil his plan with their free will undisputed. Of course, having something brought to our attention is itself not a function of the will, we either notice something or we dont. Did BSG God leave Easter Eggs for the Capricans to avoid their fate with? Maybe, but they didn't find them QED they deserved what they got. Also, the deaths of 99% of humanity were justified because it lead to the survivors realising that technology is bad but gazelles are great.
-
Tai Pan- seriously, is there any silly plot twist, or bad writing that you wont excuse away?
So you think it makes sense for an Military Officer who hates Cylons, after the genocide of his people, to just change over a few years (and constant attacks) to say "hey let's all get along". Really?
The great unanswered Tai Pan question would be if something completely outrageous- like robotic Daggets doing a musical episode with Dirk Benedict would have "fit in" and made sense. I do believe Tai Pan would write a 6 paragraph essay defending that.
You KNOW it to be true. -
4 years of fighting until the other side is dead is what Genocide, followed by a ruthless chase for the survivors' very lives. But oh yeah, everyone's a Cylon, and the Cylons are good guys now, so let's just forget that what, 16 billion people died 2 years prior and realize that "it's different now". I'm sorry characters can change a great deal- with poor writing and unrealistic character arcs. The writers engineered a bleak fight to the end of humanity, or the revenge of humanity on the Cylons, what we got was Politically Correct, feel good, unrealistic nonsense that "we're all guilty" and everyone can find common ground. With this logic, the Holocaust or the killing fields of Cambodia, were reall just "misunderstandings" and not that big of a deal, cant the parties involved find common ground?
-
4 years of fighting until the other side is dead is what Genocide, followed by a ruthless chase for the survivors' very lives. But oh yeah, everyone's a Cylon, and the Cylons are good guys now, so let's just forget that what, 16 billion people died 2 years prior and realize that "it's different now". I'm sorry characters can change a great deal- with poor writing and unrealistic character arcs. The writers engineered a bleak fight to the end of humanity, or the revenge of humanity on the Cylons, what we got was Politically Correct, feel good, unrealistic nonsense that "we're all guilty" and everyone can find common ground. With this logic, the Holocaust or the killing fields of Cambodia, were reall just "misunderstandings" and not that big of a deal, cant the parties involved find common ground?
-
You mean like a six foot horny blonde telling you to fuck people over then having brain sex with you Easter Egg? God is great, indeed.
-
You know its become cliched to die in the finally when we are surprised when almost no on dies. Rosalin had to die..I mean damn they had been building that for a long time now. I'm happy to see the characters alive and happy for a change. From the deep cold drama of space to the warm new beginnings of Earth. I truly liked these characters and yes I wanted them to be happy in the end. It was nice to see my favorite character, Baltar, even get one himself. And this is coming from a tried and true cynic. The mid season earth ending was awesome. But the ending to the series still moved me deeply.
-
Creating a whole new order of beings at the very end of a show where there were already several kinds of humans, robots, and things between, is the equivilent of Agatha Christie accusing a character who wasn't even in the book. Yes, Baltar had talked about angels, but he was only telling people what they wanted to hear. Throwing in a literal, activist God at the very end like that, and making it the explanation for THE BIG QUESTION (what the hell is starbuck) is just ass.
-
It's VERY amusing that the BSG writers did some research IMHO.The following is info by others on what was supposed to be going on 150,000 years ago:According to the Encyclopedia of World History, Sixth Edition, "sometime after 150,00 years ago...Some groups living in exceptionally rich areas may have developed unusual hunting and foraging skills, using a new technology so effective that they could prey on animals from a distance with finely made projectiles. With efficient technology, more planning, and better organization of both hunting and foraging, our ancestors could have reduced the risks of living in unpredictable environments in dramatic ways. And, when climatic conditions changed, and hitherto isolated populations mingled with others, the process of biological and cultural evolution accelerated."http://tinyurl.com/chzbuehttp://tinyurl.com/cg74zdAgain, just a little amusing IMO in light of the BSG finale.
-
Ah yes Thunderbolt Ross, that is indeed a pretty big Easter Egg. However the male brain will always answer "Because I'm great!" when asking itself why that sexy woman fancies him. The name of this condition is prisonguardinxmen2-itus.
-
That just adds to my enjoyment and satisfaction of the finale. Pitch perfect... people change and those that didn't found their way to the airlock...seriously so many of you complainers should have been shot & air locked with Gaeta and Zarek..frakking toasters.
-
..have to be removed for them to work BTW.
-
Per earlier comments dont like some of the absolutist comments, but by in large great debate.
And the reason for the debate it was an amazing show, this aint Stargate (said with a smirk). -
You can deal with people having different thoughts than yours ?
-
Absolutely...I love to debate, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'll engage in debates that are rationale. I found no issue with the finale, didn't see any plot holes.. but there were a few unanswered questions like if the cyclons on earth were polytheist how and why did the five change their tune when they met the monotheist centurions? Andres seemed to know there was a miracle afoot, how?
-
Like Callie? ;)
-
I really don't know what you're looking for here. In head 6 said from the beginning that she was an agent of God. It's not like they just stuck this in at the end.
-
Can anyone explain to me how the word 'Earth' managed to survive 150,000 fucking years without changing one jot or even being totally forgotten? Surely after that length of time being passed on from generation to generation it would have altered to say 'Earth Purple Monkey Dishwasher' or something like that? And another thing! If the BSG are the ones that taught us prehistoric shaved gorillas how to communicate whay don't we all just speak English and say 'Frak' all the time? Why the fuck did they go and invent french? Just so i had to do it in school? What did I ever do the them? Bastards.......
-
I agree it did not go out on a high note. And it didn't have the twist at the end like I thought it would. I was expecting the Cylons to turn and they didn't. Anyway, for what it's worth I think the worst part of the finally was it was just kind of boring. I don't really care to much about plot holes, after all it is just a remake of a corny TV show, I just wanted to be left with something more to dwell on. Also RDM said it was "about the characters" but there was no great characters moments. Of course there are some things I did love about it, and I will really miss the show. I did love where and when they ended up, it just wasn't a suprise for me. I did like the angle thing a lot too. And over all I still really like the entire series it's just not the masterpiece I was hoping it was.
-
My wife liked it. Nuff said!! She was an Angel???? GTF outta here, what a cop out man! Since the 2nd hlaf of season 3 this show sucked. It was a soap opera. Most STUPID ENDING EVER. Adama doesnt stay with his son? Kara fukin dissapears??? I HATE RON MOORE NOW!! I thought there would be some cool full circle thing with Kara. It started out so well, then it turned into crap! Best sci fi ever? GTF outta here!! What a joke. It could have been, if they didnt turn it into a soap. The funnies thing tho was watchin him choke that bitch in the end, I was laughing my fukin ass off, then AL blew his brains out hehehehe. That WAS great!!
-
I'm looking for something other than her just saying it. Those are empty words without meaningful behavior to back them up. She said a lot of shit.
-
In a way, I am on the same page. I don't WANT to care about plot holes, and indeed I've enjoyed things that have them, but when the drama doesn't work, plot holes and inconsistencies tend to stick out more.
-
is the salavation of mankind! So said In-Head George Lucas to RDM. And he told him how to shave...
-
Obese Middle Aged Virgin 1: "I think this form of entertainment is the greatest thing ever. I ascribe a religious significance to it."
Obese Middle Aged Virgin 2: "You are wrong! Even though I secretly love what you love, I have to let you know, in meticulous detail how much I hated it."
OMAV1: "Arrgh! You are SO wrong! You didn't like it because you are too dumb to understand it!"
OMAV2: "No! You are SO wrong! You like it because you are too dumb to realize how dumb it is!"
And so on and so on forever and ever amen.
-
yeah!!
-
I think the problem is people like you and I are taking it too literally. IMO we were led to do so, and they switched it up into a much more loosey-goosey representation of the fictionalized universe of BSG than they started with.
-
This is longer than I wanted it to be, but ... Actually there are rules, just like there are rules of grammar, and music. Now you can mix things up and create new forms but things have to make sense, unless you where after some incoherent mess in the first place. Its fine if your intent were to create something that started off lets say as a typical Western narrative, and then turn it into a Japanese No play, and then into a 50s style musical. But would it work? I'm giving you this extreme example to illustrate my point. Now I'm not suggesting that Galactica was an incoherent mess, but by your approach we can't even have a dialogue about what makes this show or any other good, bad or mediocre. You just will justify any flaw as OK, or no your wrong because your wrong. Now on to 2001, again, it is pretty arrogant for you to ask if I got 2001. If you read my explanation about the narrative styles you would accept that I got it. So now what, I have to say, yeah, yeah, I got it, yeah I got...Mr. Real Deal. I'll say that think 2001 is a great movie. It is a movie that actually addressed the Transcendent and the Numinous in a powerful way. Cerebral you say? Actually, Galactica actually got less cerebral in the finale not more. Let's look at the technology issue again. Now to be more cerebral we have to be more logical. So even if the survivors of the fleet get rid of every scrap of technology on them, what about things like knives, and credits, other pieces of metal artifacts. Archeologists would most likely have found them, especially if they found Hera remains (by the way Mitochondrial Eve was not one woman), they would have found some kind of artifacts. But maybe "It" got rid of them all. And even if no artifacts were ever found, The survivors would have passed on their superior knowledge of farming (Baltar knows how) and how to make superior hunting weapons like bows and arrows which would have emerged far earlier than it actually did. Galatctica started out with realism and dropped that quicker than the fleet dropped technology, or was it at the same time. Also, don't you think people would have wanted to keep their music alive, and literature. So writing would have emerged far earlier than it did, and again artifacts. Now of course you're going to explain all of these things away, but you won't do it by referring to what actually was said and done in the finale itself. You have to just fill in the wholes of logic in your head and say to your self, "Oh but I get what they meant by that." To be cerebral is not to then retreat to you room and think up ways to plug in the holes in logic etc. Now if you equate cerebral with something more abstract, Galactica didn't become that either. It was a great show; therefore, I hold it up to high standard. The finale was not all disappointing by the way. I liked a lot of it. Now my question to you is what didn't you like about the finale? What didn't work for you?
-
I actually wanted everyone to get whacked especially the following: Helo, Athena, Baltar, Caprica Six, the rest of the Sixes, the rest of the Eights and probably wouldn't have cared too much if most of the rest went either.
-
HAHAHAHA....this has happened before and will happen again, and again, and again....just wait until the Lost series finale...HAHAHAHA..love it!
-
I'm just not really sure what I think of the finale. The more I think about it, the more questions pop up and the more dissatisfied I become. I can *almost* forgive Starbuck's disappearing act, but finding her smashed-up viper and corpse on nuked-earth makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. At this point it seems that reveal was added purely for dramatic effect. Disappointing RDM...
-
It would be like this, you find out your very favorite restaurant is closing for good. You make reservations for one last great meal. You get there and order your favorite dish and it's cold, also it's kind of bland. Of course it's still better than McDonalds but it doesn't have that magic that puts it over the top. Luckily desert shows up and kind of salvages the experience.
-
I keep thinking of the line at the end when Caprica says "god" and Baltar says "you know he doesn't like to be called that," or something along those lines. That immediately assigns some very petty, very human traits to this "god". I just think that's much more in keeping with a being such as a Q, and not the omnipotent, always-was-and-always-will-be version we tend to believe in down here on earth. And that, my friends, is the ultimate sci-fi nod.
-
Hopefully the In-Heads will lead them all to the promised land.
-
Anyone else think that when Hera was looking up into the sky to the reprise of 'One Year Later' that cylon raiders would start flying over her head reminiscent to the end of Season 2 on New Caprica?
-
What is that supposed to mean exactly? Those are the last words of the show, headBalter responding to headSix about god not wanting to be called god. It seems to have some significance, but maybe it's just a throwaway thing. That would fit with the last few seasons, where things seem like they have some import actually don't.
-
Think on it
-
I think this speaks to our differences ..watch the video - http://tinyurl.com/d3pgfu
-
Such info does add to enjoyment.It appears that Ron Moore had a reason for the 150,000 year timeline after all.
-
She is believed to have lived about 140,000 years ago in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania.
Mitochondrial Eve is the MRCA of all humans via the mitochondrial DNA pathway, not the unqualified MRCA of all humanity. All living humans can trace their ancestry back to the MRCA via at least one of their parents, but Mitochondrial Eve is defined via the maternal line. Therefore, she necessarily lived at least as long, though likely much longer, ago than the MRCA of all humanity. -
You're right there TR, one of the shows strongest points was it had a very grounded approach to its characters and storyline but it looks like it got away from the writers... It really was the ending so many predicted and was the one I didn't want to see... Not to labour on it plot holes but even stupid things like Ok, so Bob Dylan just so happens to write and record a song that was heard by the Five 150,000 years ago (or is it 152,000?), so does that mean the lyrics and notes are embedded in all of us since we are all part Cylon and he just happened to unearth it? Or does that mean there was a Bob Dylan on Earth 1? It's shit like that that gives me a headache...
-
I'm thinking the dude who made Riddick would be closer. You can hate on Ron D. Moore all you want, but he's a lot smarter than Roid Rage Dwarf Pig aka Danzig.
-
All along the watchtower was written out of the Book of Isaiah, Chapter 21, verses 5-9:. Members of Dylan's family commented on his reading the Bible on a daily basis when he wrote that song. Given the spiritualness of the show it's not a far stretch.
-
God not wanting to be called God. Gives me the idea that he is not the god of all of our religions. He is something else all together. A force of nature.
-
Is EXACTLY what they're talking about.
-
It was ok - could have been worse. I have a theory why lots aren't liking it though. It started out as a very sci fi type show. Lots of tech stuff, lots of spaceships, dog fights, a race of "technological" beings. And it remained that way 3/4 of the way through. Suddenly it went all touchy feely and religious on us. It kinda came from no where. If the show had started with that theme and held it through, then the ending would have made much much much more sense and been more satisfying to many.
-
So you reckon its feasible that the Bible existed in its exact form both on Earth 1 150,000 years ago as it is today on Earth 2? Sorry but it's that kind of tail-chasing and 'spiritual' turn that BSG took made it sound more and more like bloody Scientology than Sci-Fi.... I miss the days when it was about the survival of the human race; turns out there were shitloads of knuckle-draggers out there anyway.....
-
It wasn't a Bob Dylan song in the BSG universe. Bob Dylan didn't exist. Musicians in my opinion are like mystics, seers... the way they interact with some creative force that allows them to translate vague ideas into rhythmic melodies, not all of us can do that (including some pop artist of today). What I gathered, is that the song transcends time and space... like thoughts and ideas.
per RDM: "It's sort of a connection of the divine and the mortal. Music is something people literally catch out of the air, they can't really tell you and define exactly how they compose it. Here is a song that transcends many eons and many different people and cultures, literally across the stars, and ultimately was reinvented by one Mr. Bob Dylan. " -
Mar 23, 2009 10:30:15 AM CDT
"there was no proof Baltar was responsible for the destruction o
by shan
"there was no proof Baltar was responsible for the destruction of the 12 colonies"
In a society that's willing to send out the troops to shoot striking teachers, giving the codes out for the main defence mainframe would have a very serious penalty and Baltar would have known that before he gave the codes out.
Maybe no-one could pin that on him but there was then the fact that he knowingly gave away a nuclear bomb that killed more survivors that anything else that happened during the entire show. What else did he think someone was going to do with a nuke? Somehow he dodged getting pinned for that too (somehow).
There was the marine guard Baltar got killed on the way to giving away the bomb.
There was also the disastrous administration he ran on New Caprica but also after that, he then helped the Cylon fleet track the Colonials - which is what I can't believe they didn't try him for as that made the most sense. They know he helped the Cylons because Simon (Cylon #4) told them.
Basically the guy was an unrepentant weasel and the fact that he got away scot free while numerous other people died for so much less still offends me on so many levels. -
That's what I loved... excluding the destruction of the 12 colonies - Balter wasn't the only member of Galatica who committed crimes during their exodus across the stars. What about Adama and Roslin agreeing that using biological warfare to wipe out the entire cylon race...and Helo's decision to prevent that from happening. That's what made this show amazing, the tough decisions you make in the name of self preservation - i'm not saying Balter wasn't a weasel, i'm just saying he wasn't alone.
-
No not is it's exact form. All i am saying is that the show has alway dabbled in faith. Dylan obviously was turning to a higher power or looking for something when he wrote the song. It very possible that god guided him into crafting that song. (In the show's world of course. not ours.) Do you get what i am saying?
-
it was alright.. wasnt mind blowing like some episodes were. Sorta reminded me of the last MASH episode.
it was nice not having to endure seeing Galactica be blown up ala B5 or Trek 3 -
I see what you mean mate; guess the show has brought out my anti-religion streak! Sometimes I find the 'God did it' approach to script writing a bit hard to take!
-
Dude i hear you. I myself am a atheist but i still enjoy a good mythology. I find religion endlessly fascinating.
-
I look at it as a kind of mythology; how we, as humans, try to ascribe meaning and metaphor to the Universe. BSG does an excellent job of exploring these themes in an exciting and intelligent way. No, its not perfect, but what is?
-
That's exactly where I'm coming from. I hate any form of the "God did it" approach. That's why that one line struck me. Definitely referring to something all-together different than people on earth subscribe to. That's why whenever someone claims that they "know" the truth, I immediately dismiss them as mentally imbalanced.
-
Exactly I hear people on these boards say Moore is shoving his religion down your throats. I don't see it. He is talking about a force of nature. Not the god of Jesus or Ala. He is just talking about something else all together, that fact that angel baltar says god hates being called god confirms this.
-
The worse the crime in the BSG Universe, the less likely the perpetrator was to be punished and more likely they could get away with future crimes.
Baltar had such a spectacular list of crimes, he should be burning in hell for the next ten lifetimes. No-one else even came close except some of the Cylons (being under orders = Nuremberg defence = didn't work in Nuremberg either).
The virus plotline was stupid on so many levels but let's face it - if it worked as designed it wasn't a crime because a) The Cylons started it and more importantly b) they weren't stopping trying to kill the few who were left. In real life, in a choice between us and them - it'd be them going down. Which is why I find Helo's existence harder to believe than just about anyone else head characters included. -
I did like the angels or higher power, supreme being or what every you call them leading humans to other humans millions of light years away. That was a nice touch. It's kind of what we do when a species in our world is in danger of becoming extinct. I think to an animal of less intelligence it would seem pretty extaordinary to be watched over or guided or even captured and put together with others of it's kind to save it from extinction. It does make me wonder if we were ever wiped out as a race would some higher power step in and help those of us left? If so, would we be able to understand what they were doing for us? How would we perceive this? I like at the end how in head Baltar mentioned "he" didn't like to be called god. Maybe he wasn't god but just a superior being helping us on our way. Very interesting stuff.
-
It's still MAGIC instead of science. It's still an unexplained bunch of bullshit.
How did Kara know all she knew? Because she was born with divine influence? That's all? That's IT? That's the sum of the whole show?
No, man. FUCK THIS. I wanted answers, not vague references to divine intervention. Even if you say it's super-science, it's still unexplained and has the appearance of the supernatural, with the same lame "It's like magic so we don't have to explain it." attitude.
This was a major let-down. I don't mind faith IN science fiction, but I do mind when science fiction is completely blown-off in favor of a bullshit fantasy non-answer. -
The show has been that way from the very beginning. "GOD" has always been a huge part of this show. It took you 5 years to figure that out. I don't understand how you can be so angry with that. Also not everything in life can be explained not even with science. Sometimes like Baltar says "It requires a leap of faith."
-
Mar 23, 2009 11:12:47 AM CDT
The problem with " He doesnt like to be called that"
by theoldgunslinger
Is that it assigns a petty human emotion like dislike to an omnipotent being. An infinite being that knows everything and created everything would never be surprised or angry at anything it created, nor would it ever need to intervene in any circumstance. Why would it?
-
Correct, but again we are talking about a TV show written by beings who give human emotions to everything in life. It's a TV show dude.
-
I don't think "he" is god. I think he is a more advanced being than we are and he is watching over us helping humanity. Just like we would help a bald eagle from becoming extinct. The eagle does not fully understand what or who we are or even why we would want to help.
-
I see where you are both coming from; it's the 2001: A Space Odyssey approach isn't it? Man's progress in the universe is helped along at certain stages by an 'alien' being/beings who have developed far beyond us, so much so that we are an experiment in evolution for them. They are there guiding us when we first use tools, when we reach space they are there and eventually we become children of the stars etc... Now that's great because we see what's goung on and it's explained to us, but BSG just tossed it out and didn't back it up with anything, we're all just sitting here scratching our heads wondering what the fuck was that? Especially, and I mean especially, Kara Thrace; can someone please tell me what was that? Sorry but if someone I was just talking to disappeared when I turned my back I'd be doing a lot more than just standing there with my hands in my pockets! This is what I mean by 'God did it' explanations....
-
The Cylons had been gone for decades. No one knew they could assume human form. All Baltar did was be careless with secret data, and I'll bet that happens hundreds of times a year IRL. What happened to Baltar is the equivalent of one of you lending a hot chick your password to some government computer, and it turns out she's a time traveling alien from the future who tries to exterminate humanity, or is from fucking Atlantis under the ocean and is a mermaid or something and wants to exterminate humanity. Giving her that access means you had a pretty bad day, but you're not malicious or anything. Your average mugger or purse snatcher has more mens rea than Baltar did.
-
Kara was a instrument of god.
-
Starbuck has been an instrument of God. The whole meaning of her being from birth has been to bring humanity to peace.
-
Two things sink that whole idea for me. Make that three. 1) The idea that the Chief wrote it: lame. 2) The fact that the lyrics are somehow intact in the BSG version which is 3) Horrible.It's not like it's some timeless melody. In fact there's very little to the melody at all. So this thing getting passed down, which is a tough sell in my book anyway, gets a lot tougher cause of how they executed the idea. Like a lot of ideas on BSG, they make a bit more sense in the abstract than they do on the actual show.the other thing is, the final five being "awoken" - which they really weren't, they didn't get their memories back yet or anything - by the song is just bizarre clumsy. We still don't know why that was the thing that did the trick, much less how.
-
All the metal artifacts would disappear in less than 150k years. Much less actually. But I think you're right about the skill set though. If the knowledge that agriculture is even POSSIBLE survives, it wouldn't even matter if the colonists had no seed crops or domestic animals available - they would have domesticated something they found at one of their sites. And a civilization with agriculture would cover the temperate and tropical areas of the planet in a few hundred years. The same is true of any number of other skills. So your artifacts gripe isn't valid, I think, but your other gripes definitely are.
-
They really don't know all of the lyrics they only ever say "to much confusion" and "someway out of here". The Final in season 3 where the whole song is sung is artistic license. I don't believe they heard some dude singing the whole song like we did. But i get what your saying.
-
I may be wrong but for me the line at the end about he doesn't like to be called that, led me to believe the 2001 theory.Anyway I understand you disappointment I'm not all that blown away by the finally either but I do love the show.
-
"God" was mentioned by a select group of characters (The bad guys at the time, no less) and for every reference to God, there was a reference to the gods, and to those who don't believe any of it.
And the problem isn't that supernatural elements are in the show. The problem is that supernatural elements answered EVERY FUCKING QUESTION and SOLVED EVERY PROBLEM.
Where can we live? POOF! God influences his avatar Kara to take them there with no explanation for HOW she did it. She "just knew."
That's what the whole show boiled down to: Kara Thrace being the chosen voice of this supernatural being with a plan. No long threads to tie anything back to history, no deep explanation for WHY she knows this stuff... It's just "because God works in mysterious ways."
How about having Kara's memory be that way because she's tied to the Cylons somehow? How about having the resurrected Kara be a clone or Cylon or something explainable? How about having all the plotlines meet up and reveal something, instead of just reinforcing the religious ideals of a select group of characters with a non-answer like "god's plan"?
I don't have a problem with God being part of it. I DO have a problem with God being the ONLY solution to every plot thread in the story.
How did Kara know the song, turned into numbers, would take them somewhere they needed to be? Well, it was ALWAYS part of her. But WHY and HOW was it always part of her? What gave her that divine knowledge?
God did it. That's all. The whole show boiled down to Kara Thrace being this God's chosen instrument of direction. The final five didn't matter. Hera barely mattered. Adama and Tigh barely mattered. Rosalin barely mattered. Everyone who died along the way were meaningless sacrifices, because if Kara had just tapped into her divine knowledge a few years earlier, they'd have found Earth 2 in no time.
It was a random ending that did nothing to support everything that preceded it. It just stepped aside, said, "Well, that's enough of all that stuff. Let's hit the God button and end this thing."
I wanted answers. What I got was "Don't worry about it. Something unexplained and more powerful is taking care of everything."
And I'm sorry; No matter how enlightened, sad, or relieved they were, Tigh and Adama would not part without even saying good-bye to one another. What the hell? We're hit over the head with their friendship in almost every other episode for four years, only to have them go their separate ways without so much as a "You take care of yourself, Bill."
They wanted to end this quickly, without providing explanations, resolutions, or making the characters STAY in character. "GOD" was simply one big problem among many others in this pathetic last hour of a great series.
There's a huge difference between Cylons talking about God, and God being directly involved with the outcome. When they crossed that line, they lost my love. -
Fair enough, and you're right about the show always having a heavy religious context, I guess I just dismissed it or ignored it until I couldn't anymore. I had always reckoned there would be more to the mythos than simply (if you can use that word) a supreme being or whatever name you want to put to it. Even with that being the case I guess like all unbelievers I like to see the proof than just have faith... I appreciate you said you enjoy a good mythology but I really thought there'd be, I don't know... something a bit more solid to it, do you know what I mean? Even something as simple and amazing as the Black Slab in 2001, it just told you everything you needed to know...
-
I hate to even say this but maybe the FF stuff will be covered in "the Plan" Not finding out anything about the FF was kind of disappointing. I was really hoping they would have shed more light on that. Also the truth at the opera house didn't really do anything for me.
-
What the frak episode were some of you people watching? That was the WORST ending to any television series EVER. Not only did Ron Moron NOT answer all of the burning questions, but he went for a preachy ending that was uninspired, poorly written, and relied on too many damn conveniences.
I will admit that the first hour was full of action, but the "rescue mission" wasn't essential, because Hera was nothing special after all. So why even save her? So she can be found 150,000 years later as the "Mitochondiral Eve?" Unless EVERYONE in the future decended directly from her genes (and other hybrid's genes) exclusively, then it really didn't mean anything. Besides, the rescue "plan" was poorly conceived and horribly executed. It really should have been doomed to failure, because it could have taken weeks to search the whole facility and find Hera. And it would have been that long if Boomer hadn't brought Hera straight to the assault team, because she "owed one to the old man." Then why did she take Hera in the first place? She could have told Adama that they were "even" when she brough Helen and Hera to Galactica the first time. Poor writing on Ron Moore's part. And during the battle, why were Starbuck and Apollo on the ground? Wouldn't it have made more sense to have the fleet's best pilots in the cockpits of some Vipers?
But I'll move on past the battle and get to the really horrible stuff. So, we end up in the CIC with the Cylons holding Hera hostage. Baltar makes his ridiculous speech about God or whatever is controlling their destiny. WHATEVER. Tyrol finally chokes Tori and we're rid of her sorry character forever (a person that I felt should never have been one of the final five...or in the series for that matter). Another firefight ensues and a cornered Cavil eats a bullet. WHAT?!! Okay, we have the most evil, head Cylon here...in charge of everything...and he takes the coward's way out. Why not just shoot Hera in the head first and then eat a bullet? That was a LAME way for him to go out. And then we have more "Watchtower" music and Starbuck takes the Galactica to the new Earth, while the dead raptor fires its nukes at the Cylon colony.
So, here's where the real train wreck begins...
The colonists decide to settle on New Earth and assume that the evil Cylons will never threaten them again. Remember, the Galactica is only one jump away from the destroyed Cylon colony and we know that there are other basestars out there. Then the colonists (and allied cylons) let the other "toasters" take the baseship, so they can go explore and find their own destiny. Okay, so we have a possibility that either one of these groups could return and for whatever reason, wipe out Earth. But what do the Colonists do? They send their fleet into the sun.
Okay, moving on... So, the colonists decide to settle on New Earth and create cities to carry on their culture and share their future with the loyal Cylons. Yeah, until Lee Adama starts talking about "breaking the cycle" and going native. So we're to believe that 39,000 colonists are onboard with his plan??? Ron Moore expects us to believe that all of those people are going to simply give up what little comforts they have left and go live off the land? Bullsh*t. And you thought Gaeda had started a big mutiny...
I would like to have seen the colonists look at Lee when he proposed this plan and then cut to a scene where Lee is hanging from a tree with a noose around his neck. But we don't. Now we have ALL of the colonists giving up all of their technology and spreading out to all of the continents. It's the age of Aquarius folks, so strip off your clothes, throw out that toothbrush and let's hump the locals. Un-freaking-believable. Let's not spend a couple of years studying the climate, seismology, and worldly diseases of this new home. They just take their chances on this world, which will lower their lifespan, increase infant mortality, and surely kill half the population in the first year. I don't think so.
And then we have the final goodbyes. Baltar and Six say farewell to their "angel" counterparts and move on with their lives, never really asking the hard questions that WE want answered. Everybody goes their separate ways and we get to see Lee Adama express his desire to explore the oceans and climb the mountains. Kinda hard to do that when you don't have any gear or supplies Lee. I wish we could have seen him break his ankle at the foot of the mountain and scream for daddy. Then we get to see Kara Thrace tell Lee that her mission is complete and she vanishes (reminded me of how Poochie left on the Simpsons). No explanations of her origin, who her father really was, or how she got that fancy new Viper. Ron Moore only hints that she was an angel too. And apparently, an amnesiatic one. That has been the biggest plot hole in Ron Moore's pathetic vision. What about the recurring theme of Kara Thrace being the "Harbinger of Death?" And I won't even bother discussing the pointless flashbacks that have plagued these two final episodes, other than to say that they wasted time and should have been done in earlier seasons.
But back to the crap... We have Tyrol leave to go live alone, so he can freeze to death in the Highlands. Ah, good ending there. And Saul Tigh finally gives up old Bill Adama and sticks with his woman at last. So, the Final Five Cylons really didn't matter anyway. But the most satisfying part for me was watching Roslin die...finally. I was very happy to see her finally kill over, after years of pointless dialog and horrible "I'm coming for you all!" moments in the series. It was a nice "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom death" too, with the fly-over of all the animals. And Adama decides not to stay with his only family (Lee), but goes to bury and mourn Roslin for the remainder of his days. Ah, yes....depression and lonliness for everyone! Go team!
Helo and Athena move on with their lives, discussing hunting and farming with little Hera. And we get to watch Hera play and frolic in the fields, like a little Laura Ingalls from "Little House on the Prarie." A more satisfying shot would have been to see a lion jump her ass in the African veldt. But no, we assume that she lives and has hot monkey love with one of the spear-chunking locals.
And our final shots from the series jump 150,000 years into the future. Hey, it's us! The colonists are OUR ancestors...cool! How original! Naturally, the angels of Six and Baltar are still watching over the new humanity, debating on whether or not the cycle of destruction will end...and discussing "God" (but he doesn't like to be called that). WHAT?!! Then they have a cameo of Ron Moore! Wow! That's so cool to put yourself in the final shot! That doesn't smack of douchebaggery at all!
Oh, and then we get the preachy 30-second montage of robot technology. Oh, no!!! The Sony robots are going to kill us all! The cycle of destruction is back! Those last two minutes of footage are the absolute worst in Sci-Fi history. To take a show that was incredible, cutting edge, and "the best show on television" and reduce it to this horrendous ending is one of the biggest jokes ever. This ending sucked and Ron Moore is a pretentious, self-indulgent, piece of crap for writing this. He never thought this show through to the end and that will ultimately be his undoing. The bounty on his head just went up exponentially. This ending made "Galactica 1980" look a little bit better and that's just freakin' sad. -
"Then we get to see Kara Thrace tell Lee that her mission is complete and she vanishes (reminded me of how Poochie left on the Simpsons)." Now that was fucking funny! Mate, don't do this to yourself, banging your head against the wall like that is only going to make Moore laugh harder...
-
I agree he's not really guilty of genocide. I think one of the things they did wrong was start treating it as if he was. The whole overwrought scene Rosalind not saving/saving him was rendered even sillier by this fact. I mean, yeah he's a vacuous ass but as has been pointed out,the Cylons weren't on anyone's radar at the tim, particularly human-looking ones. In light of that his breach of security was hideously irresponsible but not murder.
-
Why did the interviewer ask Adama if he was a cylon? At that point in time, human's had no idea that "skinjobs" even existed. Correct?
-
"Why does leaving unanswered questions and gaps constitute a flaw?"
You are 100% correct that leaving questions unanswered is not always a flaw. Ambiguity in a story is often the most satisfying.
Please don't mistake me.
I've been criticizing the answers given in BSG and the way they were given.
Why do characters act that way? Um, people are inconsistent. Lazy.
Who / what was Kara trace after she died and how is that possible? Um, maybe she was the personification of a force of nature. Maybe she was an angel. Maybe?
Why was Hera so important? She's going to be "mitochondrial Eve" to ensure the survival of the cylon race. Um, weren't the cylons the ones that, I dunno, five minutes ago, were going to cut her up like a lab rat? And, seems to me, the survival of the cylon race was never the dramatic thrust of the series, any way.I could go on and on.
Again, I'd've preferred no answers, too, if they had been clever enough not to give us any. -
She didn't disappear, she flew to New Krypton.
-
Repost with paragraph breaks (type without spaces)
-
And yet another example of "we don't know what the frak we're doing" rears its ugly, pointed head.
-
Damn, you beat me to the punch. I was just gonna say that. Just another example of how they didn't think this through, and didn't even proof-read the last script. Awesome point. Or, oh yeah, we have to watch the Plan and Caprica for all that to make sense (rolls eyes). Screw The Plan. Any pertinent info should have been included in the actual show itself to begin with. You shouldn't have to read a novel, comic, watch a webisode TV movie and spin-off series to get the point of it all. Of yeah, there was no point, other than "God did it".
-
RE: That's what the whole show boiled down to: Kara Thrace being the chosen voice of this supernatural being with a plan. No long threads to tie anything back to history, no deep explanation for WHY she knows this stuff... It's just "because God works in mysterious ways."
Dude, what show have you been watching for the last 5 years... seriously. There were clues about Kara through out the show. Season 1 - Leoban tells her she has a destiny...when she and Helo visit her old place on caprica we she the mandala painting, we learn her father is a pianist. Every season they touched on it. In plain sight...to say the religious tones were not a part of the story the frakking Pithea prophecy is what drove them to find earth... if your unhappy with the end that's fine, but you can't say the show focus didn't involve a higher power driving our heroes to their inevitable outcome. -
A) Baltar just being a jerk
B) Baltar legitimately forgetting who she was even though, as many poined out, they have been intimate in the past (Baltar *has* gotten around quite a bit)
C) the writers were setting up this angel or whatever thing with Kara. According to the Bible, the resurrected Jesus wasn't immediately recognized by his followers, in some cases they only realized it when he was gone. The answer is most likely A, but I'd like to think maybe it was C, only because it makes the writers look smarter. -
You said they could have found earth 2 in the beginning avoided all of this stuff. But you seem to forget they had to go on this journey because if they didn't they would never have broken the cycle. they would have still not learned anything with out the journey. I get your criticisms, I really do. But But the show is based on mythology and there are god and goddesses in mythology. The show has dealt with these things from day one. All of answers to all of the questions are there. they did not spell it out for you. But i assure you there are no questions left to be answered. you just have to look harder.
-
A cylon talking about their one true cylon God is not the same as "God" being in the story from the beginning. This is Retcon, in it's worst form. Seriously, go back and put in the mini-series DVD. Six is destroyed in the nuke blast. Then they continue this character by having her speak to Baltar in his head. To say now that this was an angel all along is atrocious. The in-head Six was clearly Six, and a cylon. This was nothing ambiguous about her speach, mannerisms, etc. She spoke to Baltar about specific things from their past relationship. This was not a third character that simply looked like Six. Not at that time. And also, before the fall, in the mini-series, she spoke about doing God's work (when she was still corporeal). So in-head Six saying she was an angel of God, doing God's work, etc, was just a continuation of what real Caprica Six was already saying, NOT a nod to the future finale when it is revealed for her to then have been an angel all along. This is Phantom Menace style all over again. People have affection for the show, so they want to believe it was good. But in the coming years, people will look back and realize that the show itself started amazing, but ended horribly. Period. Pythea has revealed this to me. So say we all!
-
I see erichaislar's point... the notion of divine influence was with the reboot from nearly day one. But, I am with you as I too was hoping for more answers - not necessarily with a big bow on them - but something along the lines that the notion of "God" is an abstraction based on our "programing" or something.
Kara's vanishing was also underwhelming... it would have been better if she had been Cylon 7's offspring. I'm sure RDM could have worked with that.
But I'm nitpicking... overall a well made series. And I really appreciate the producers ending the series with 4 seasons instead of going well beyond the expiry date like so many other shows do.
The Bad:
1. No explanation for Starbuck II.
2. Head 6 and Baltar are still not well understood.
3. The heavy handed use of news B roll shots of merdern day robots... yeah I get it... we are starting the process all over again.
4. No explanation for Earth II... I have only seen the finale once, so I may have missed it, but did anyone offer an explanation for the nuked earth they found at the end of season 4.0? Was "Earth II" renamed "Earth" because it became humanity's new home? Was nuked Earth not the real Earth afterall?
The Good:
1. A kick ass battle royal (Cylon Centurion vs TOS Cylon Centurion).
2. Tyrol breaking Tory's neck (as my GF said "that bitch had it coming").
3. Adama kicking the crap out of a Simon Cylon in the CIC.
4. Racetrack launching the nukes... to bad she had to bite it she was a cutie and a smart ass personallity to boot!
5. finding earth populated by primitive Homo sapiens... thank god they didn't land and find Dr Z and a bunch of Super Scouts.
-
I'm sure many of you already read the interview with Ron Moore when asked "What exactly was Starbuck?' and he replies "She was whoever or whatever you want her to be" Which basically translates to he had no fucking idea either. Another thing, why the hell was papa Adama leaving forever? That's what really bugs the shit out of me. You raise a good argument Nix_Cadavre and I agree with you for the most part. I dd however enjoy the last episode and am extremely sad this fine show is leaving the airwaves.
-
I have to agree with you on all your points..
This last episode was like watching Star Wars Episodes 1 2 and 3 after years and years of anticipation for a new Star Wars film. -
Mar 23, 2009 12:46:00 PM CDT
Re: Cylons talking about God, and God being directly involved wi
by 1truegod
Re: There's a huge difference between Cylons talking about God, and God being directly involved with the outcome. When they crossed that line, they lost my love.
Cylons weren’t the only talking about God. The colonials were also debating the existence of god (or gods) let’s remember the fleet split up when Laura decided she was a prophet of the Gods. Or the sons of aries and their battle with the Batler’s harem. Laura coming to terms with crossing over, the women who died next to her which she witnessed crossing over. I can go on…and on…
Sorry to rant but you struck a chord with me. Nothing personal.
-
From RDM: They wanted to end this quickly, without providing explanations, resolutions, or making the characters STAY in character. "GOD" was simply one big problem among many others in this pathetic last hour of a great series.
It was built into the show when we decided to get to Earth. This was always the plan – the plan was to get to Earth, have it be a cinder, and then go, “God, where now?” And take the audience on this other journey and make them forget about that and not think about it. Because the concept of the show was to search for a place called Earth.
So we wanted to give that to you before you expected it and make it a downer and [have you go,] “Oh shoot, now what?” And now you’re really adrift. [The intention was] to put the audience with the characters, where they were really adrift and not hoping that anything better was going to happen.
And at the very last, at the very end, to then have a moment of hope, to have something to hang on to, and to give them the thing that they had quested for for so long, and to give that to the audience too.
-
All of those questions have been answered. If you watch the series from the beginning you can catch alot of clues.
1. Starbuck was a inturment of God. (This has been said by Leoben over and over again and reafermed in the final.)
2.They where angels doing gods will
3. you got the idea of what they where trying to say.
4.Earth 1 was the cylon home world of the final 5. they blew it up(It has all happened before it will all happen again). And yes they rename Earth II(Our Earth) Earth because earth has been a dream for them.
-
RDM: Oh yeah, it’ll be controversial. There will be people who will absolutely hate it and think that we failed in our mission. We debated it in the [writers] room, I thought about it a long time, and I had sort of the same answer. And the more I struggled to give definition to it, the less satisfying it became. There various avenues we went down, discussions, saying she’s specifically this or that. And every time it felt uninteresting and kind of pedestrian.
It felt like, if she’s truly connected to the Eternal, if she’s connected to this other power, this other thing in the universe, as long as you know she’s connected to it and she’s fulfilled her destiny, brought us to this place, brought us to two Earths, really, that’s enough. That should just be left to your imagination, left to your inquiry, left you to try to fill in the blanks we leave. That was my answer and I’m sure -- I know – people will debate it. -
In polygraphs it's called a "control question" one with a known answer used to verify the readings.