Went to a screening of the Paul Greengrass/Matt Damon film GREEN ZONE in Paramus tonight. It’s a movie based on a book about the search for WMD across Iraq, which to me at this juncture seems like a bit of a moot point (we know there weren’t any) but this movie is well made at every level if a bit too dense and talky in parts. Its worth seeing just to watch how it all went so wrong. Okay, let me attempt a stab at plot summary: Damon plays Chief Miller who runs an ops party searching for WMD. But after many a bloody gun battle, Damon’s team makes it into the supposed WMD sites to find nothing time after time. When he reports to his superiors back in the ‘Green Zone’ (the lush area where American officals live outside of Bagdhad – the pace is like a 5 star hotel btw) to tell them that their intel is consistently off, he is immediately censured and told to simply follow orders. At this point we check in with Bush Administrative official Greg Kinnear who is busy plotting to install a new government to be hand picked by America themselves. Meanwhile, CIA agent Brendab Gleeson is fighting with Kinnear as ALL American intel (which we know is all wrong) has been given by one single source: some mysterious figure named Magellan. Soon enough, Damon and Gleeson team up to uncover this fraudulent Magellan character as well as the search for the real location of WMD. If you know your current events you will know the GIANT reveal that comes halfway through the movie. If you don’t, I’m not gonna be a spoiler. Greengrass is always a first rate director and the movie plays like BLACK HAWK DOWN with an incredibly intricate political mystery at its core. It’s a lot to take in: action movie, mystery, political and social commentary. And I will probably have to go see it again to absorb all it was throwing at me. Damon is always great. Never playing righteous, more just frustrated that his missions are all bullshit and he knows he’s being lied to. Greg Kinnear has always annoyed me so I guess he’s well cast as a bureaucratic asshole here. An interesting character is Amy Ryan’s Wall Street reporter, who is always over Kinnear’s shoulder waiting to interview this mysterious Magellan (whom he always keeps just out of reach to hold control over her). When Damon finally corners her, we realize she’s literally been quoting someone she’s never met (taking it all from Kinnear instead) therefore she and the WSJ are indeed complicit in this false reasoning for going to war. If this is based on a non-fiction book which I believe it is than that’s pretty scary. In an effort to get the scoop first, reporters were printing anything they were spoon fed. I enjoyed this film, dense as it is. To be fair, one really can’t say its confusing because its very clear in its points. I’d just advise you all to drink a lot of coffee before you sit down to watch it. Thanks, Rollofellow
March 19, 2009, 1:45 a.m. CST
by Duke of Hurl
March 19, 2009, 1:47 a.m. CST
--I really like Matt Damon's movies, but Paul Greengrass's "direction" drives me crazy. It's basically cameramen following the actors around rather than COMPOSED shots and that's fine in small does, that's inappropriate, in my opinion, for a whole movie because it's just a constant reminder that I'm watching a movie and keeps me from getting into it. Anybody agree? Disagree?
March 19, 2009, 1:48 a.m. CST
meant to say "in small DOSES"
March 19, 2009, 1:50 a.m. CST
by Quin the Eskimo
and I even like the talent
March 19, 2009, 1:59 a.m. CST
The first great Iraq war film will be Soldierside, a film I made. No professionals, no actors; made entirely by vets, and there's none of that bulshyte that makes us soldiers into saintly heroes or sadists. Jesus please-us, I'm so tired of stupid Iraq movies, and having spend two years in the green zone, I can tell you that this will be the latest wad on the wall. Soldierside, remember it. And thanks for your service, stripper in Portland who kindly gave me a hummer in my Accord the day before mobilization in 04.
March 19, 2009, 2:01 a.m. CST
However, it kinda takes away from the tension when you know how everything is going to unfold. That's the problem with these Iraq movies. Political junkies like me will see the film, but the average person isn't interested in watching a movie about America's darkside and the Iraq war. I'll be surprised if this movie breaks even.
March 19, 2009, 2:04 a.m. CST
cuz they sure ain't making money.
March 19, 2009, 2:34 a.m. CST
by Motoko Kusanagi
Because I'm sick and fucking tired of this Bourne-style shit. You simply cannot tell what the fuck is going on on screen.
March 19, 2009, 3:14 a.m. CST
by hank quinlan
My pal got me a copy of the script a year or two ago. I didn't even know it was Greengrass. And it had major problems. Obviously exhaustively researched but narratively inert for the first part of the movie. Nothing much happens. The bad guys were pretty cardboard. And in a move worthy of Kaufman's original Adaptation screenplay ending, SPOILER AHEAD Ryan's character turned into a film noir femme fatale who meets a grisly end in the big climax which is in, like, a house. Cool huh? It was all very overblown and silly. I couldn't believe it when I found out it was a big vehicle for Greengrass and Damon. The script was clunky. Although I guess when you shoot it super close and handheld it MUST be REAL! My favorite was the note my brother gave about the script. The soldiers at one point talk about playing XBOX 360, But it wasn't out yet at that point in time. Sort of a strange mistake for a movie that spends sooooo much time being in your face how realistic it is. I hope they fixed all this in later drafts. Prolly not. I think it was a strike movie.
March 19, 2009, 3:16 a.m. CST
I understand Hollywood is neither balanced nor factual; but usually, they are at least concerned about profitability. When the subject is Iraq, though, even that goes out the window.<p> Is it just to score points with like-minded studio heads and big-league talent?
March 19, 2009, 3:17 a.m. CST
I can't see any sarge. <p> then a dogfight in the upper atmosphere ensues. the Iraqi pilot yells out... "hahahahar american devil. we hid our WMD's in Iran. you'll just have to go there. hahahar. american skum. do you know how silly you look right now? silly!! <p> It ends with Damon standing on a tank at the border (think star wars tatooine meets batman begins) <p> we all know what must be done. Damon must cross the border and get those Weopons at all cost, while the public at home all watch glued to their tv sets of his heroism. <p> and we cut for sequel set up
March 19, 2009, 3:26 a.m. CST
March 19, 2009, 3:52 a.m. CST
Greengrass should have won the Oscar that year, not Scorsese.
March 19, 2009, 4:29 a.m. CST
Stop complaining about shaky cam. You want your films spoon-fed to you? God forbid somebody does something different.
March 19, 2009, 4:40 a.m. CST
I've seen almost all of the Iraq war films, and the problem with them, purely from ana rtistic standpoint, IS the quality. They are terrible films that go way over hte top trying to make their point. I mean Christ I cannot believe ANYONE liked int he Valley of Elah. Much like Crash, Haggis just piled on the cliches making every soldier out to be a murdering monster. Stop Loss was similarly hammy and melodramatic, Rendition was oof a better quality but somewhat threadbare and all over the place with its focus. Redacted I could barely get through the trailer let alone the film and De Palma is a hack. Keep in mind this is coming from a hardcore Liberal. Witht hat said i cant wait for Green Zone, this war and the blithering fucking idiot traitors who fucked it up deserve a beating.
March 19, 2009, 4:40 a.m. CST
Greengrass is one of the best directors out there working today.
March 19, 2009, 6:33 a.m. CST
is The Kingdom and Three Kings awhile back. Wasn't crazy about either one, but didn't hate them, either. All these other ones, most of them Preacher Movies, I have absolutely no interest in seeing. These movies are not for entertainment, and I think the filmmakers would be honest about that. Lions for Lambs, In the Valley of Elah, etc. etc., they have no illusions about creating an enjoyable movie experience. They're about preaching, and you know who wants to be preached to? The choir. No one else.
March 19, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST
enjoy their sermon. On AICN, that translates roughly to, "Well, go watch Bayformers and 4 Fast 4 Furious if a thoughtful, well-crafted and politically meaningful movie is too much for your brain to handle!" As if there are only and exactly two types of movies: cheesy CGI bang-boom movies, and over-earnest, preachy Oscar bait. Never mention to the Choir that there are, in fact, many, many other types of movies. And thus, my own sermon ends.)
March 19, 2009, 7:10 a.m. CST
I hope we finally get a good one.
March 19, 2009, 7:32 a.m. CST
Another anti Iraq War movie, after we've all but won the war, is crazy from both an artistic and business standpoint.
March 19, 2009, 7:38 a.m. CST
Just like I don't want to see another political lecture pertaining to events that occured 4 or 5 years ago from Hollywood, I don't want to hear another whiny faggot bawwwing for more propoganda pieces about new schools and shiny tractors. For the average man, woman and child the Iraq war is either a non issue, or a terrible, horrible crime against humanity. Thats it. The best movie I've seen about the war was a fucking TV show. The only good film made about eiter Gulf War was Three Kings, because it put the job of being a good fucking movie first and foremost. On the other hand, I'm sure we'll get more insulting dreck like Black Hawk Down or Rendition. Also, stop blathering about Hollywoods terrible treatment of Troops. They treat these fucking lug heads like princes. You're not fucking heros, your idiots whoc cant get real jobs sent to kill and die to protect my fucking tax paying interests. Stop clamouring for fucking sympathy handouts. Its not like you were drafted.
March 19, 2009, 8:22 a.m. CST
by Leroys Poboys
Can't wait to see this film, but this dumbass can't even type or do research. The Green Zone is smack dab in the middle of Baghdad. Believe me, its nothing like a five star hotel. Unless you get mortars, sandstorms, suicide bombings, sleep on cots and eat freeze dried food in five star hotels.
March 19, 2009, 8:42 a.m. CST
by Leroys Poboys
I know some of the people that were portrayed in Blackhawk Down. They didn't consider it insulting in any way. By your statements I assume you're a US citizen. It's easy to spout off an an internet bulletin board about the people who would die for your right to do so. Before you do any more posting or spouting off, you should be more informed about what we've accomplished in Iraq. Drive to your nearest VA hospital or Military installation and share your opinions, in fact your exact words, with some of the people you've just insulted. The wounded and the still serving. Or maybe the comrades, friends and families of those that have been killed. I think you'll change your mind.
March 19, 2009, 8:47 a.m. CST
by Leroys Poboys
That wasn't meant for 'loserguy3000', that was meant for 'whinynegativebitch'
March 19, 2009, 9:37 a.m. CST
March 19, 2009, 9:54 a.m. CST
If the review is accurate, it's a wholly shameful travesty that Greengrass wasted his time on such a left wingnut premise after making the great United 93. Hollywood will never learn that the reason Americans stay away from the current crop of anti-Iraq war movies is that they are inherently dishonest. However unpopular the war actually was, the fact remains that our military performed their jobs in exemplary fashion - and managed to snatch victory from the rabid jaws of defeat despite the abjectly retarded stance of the media and their Hollywood cohorts. The Iraq war is over. We won. Even ABC news says so - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=33b_1237285006 To make a successful Iraq war movie, Hollywood first needs to deal with this fact and give our military the honor it deserves. If there's one thing Americans don't like, it's dishonesty. Even those who didn't support the war don't want to go watch lies about our troops.
March 19, 2009, 10:06 a.m. CST
...humans LOVE dishonesty. Nearly as much as they love impotent outrage. We may have ultimately gotten our way in Iraq, but we certainly didn't WIN anything. Iraq v2 has been a terrible loss for the entire world. A waste of money, time, environment and most egregiously, human life.
March 19, 2009, 10:18 a.m. CST
There's a lot more to Paul Greengrass than his handheld-camera style of action. He always injects his films with great human dignity, whether they're dramas or action movies. And he gets strong performances out of all his actors. He's also proven that he can deliver a commercial product. I think it's safe to say that, while THE BOURNE IDENTITY was a fair success, it was Greengrass's edgy sequels which solidified Matt Damon as a viable action-franchise star.<p>Also, Greengrass has already made one successful movie about the war against terrorists. When you think about it, UNITED 93 depicts the first battle in that war. GREEN ZONE will obviously be more political, but I have no doubt that Greengrass will bring to the film all the elements that have made his previous movies so outstanding.
March 19, 2009, 10:21 a.m. CST
by Kid Z
The American men and women who served honorably in Iraq are damn fine human beings. The injured and the families of the dead should live in the lap of luxury for the rest of their lives (like that'll happen). The scumbags who profited off this war and the douche who started it for no damn good reason should be rotting in 8 X 9 foot cells by now (like that'll happen).
March 19, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST
...I know. "It turned out alright, but we really didn't win." I'll have to agree to disagree with that little gem that the left has fallen back on, (kinda like global warming is now climate change) but all the same - any movie that fails to give the troops the honor they deserve, that is, credit where credit is due will NEVER find an audience beyond the hard anti-war left, and that is a pretty small group these days.
March 19, 2009, 10:57 a.m. CST
one of the few good movies about Iraq.
March 19, 2009, 11:04 a.m. CST
Do you talk like that in real life? I mean do you speak in right wing phrases like "give the troops the honor they deserve" , "Hollywood cohorts", "left wingnut", "jaws of defeat", etc., etc.?<br><br>Change the channel from Rush, Hannity, et. al. and lighten up a bit, sheesh.
March 19, 2009, 11:07 a.m. CST
by Darth Macchio
...won't this get a little confused with other war movies Damon's been in with the primary locale being in the desert? I'm not going to bother to keep it all straight but how many has he done? Just two right? (one with Clooney and one with Meg Ryan?) But for some reason it seems like there's 4 or 5 or so Gulf War (the first one or the inferior sequel) based movies with Damon.<p>And I agree, as someone who gets quite angry thinking about the war, the disgraceful and pathological historical revisionism, the downright criminal abuse and stunningly ammoral use of our enlisted men and women as props or martyrs and ultimately (and predictably) as scapegoats and then simply abandoned, these movies always seem to want to take over the top exaggerated approach and even with many truths in plain site, it always seems to be more happy to exaggerate the facts on the ground than to relate the real tragedies.<p>I predict this TB turns into another Clinton's fault! No Bush's Fault!" imbecile tennis match inside of 100 posts...
March 19, 2009, 11:44 a.m. CST
by Tin Snoman
Brendab Gleeson is one of my favorite actors. He was so great in Bravehearg and 28 Dayd Later and I loved him in Ib Bruges. Even Lakw Placid wasn't bad. <p> I guess what I'm trying to say is that this site needs editors, or at least spellcheckers. <p> Also, Brendan Gleeson is really great.
March 19, 2009, 11:55 a.m. CST
March 19, 2009, 12:02 p.m. CST
Give em hell, Greengrass! Long live the Bath Party! MATT DAMON!
March 19, 2009, 12:02 p.m. CST
Give em hell, Greengrass! Long live the Bath Party! <p> MATT DAMON!
March 19, 2009, 12:27 p.m. CST
by Darth Macchio
...have you ever been watching a puppet show..well, moreso muppets I guess...the puppets that people stick their hands into, not the ones on strings, etc you know..howdy fuckin doodie n shit the wooden dude on tv in the beginning of HB2, etc) and just wondered for a moment what it would look like if there was no stuffed animal muppet or puppet and instead the puppeteers uncovered arms and hands were propped above the stage alone without costume and how absurdly stupid that would look if they still did their normal routine? Imagine just seeing Frank Oz's arm and hand with the voice of Piggy? His hand jumping around all spasmodically...Dumb as polar bear shit in summertime right?<p>Well, imagine what shaky-cam looks like from behind the lens? Greengrass and crew running around, jumping up and down, and having a faux-seizure while all attention is paid to the action scene in front of them...would they look as dumb as puppeteer hands without muppets on them? As if they're trying to be a part of the action simply by getting all jiggly and bouncin around like a vibrator hooked up to a stack of car batteries?<p>I don't really know my point other than to say shaky-cam is best taken in amounts almost too small to notice. But, if Damon did a Star Trek maneuver and put his arms in the air and sidestepped to the right and then the left as if the planet was the Enterprise and getting tossed about is a simple as shaking a camera and pretending to fall in different directions. Special effects natch!
March 19, 2009, 12:41 p.m. CST
I would have placed it as anti-stupidity. The missing WMD's was based on extremely bad intel, and was actualy pulled from the claim of a single, unreliable source stating that Iraq had been trying to get yellow cake. It in no way reflects our troop's performance. Spread your right wing propaganda bullshit somewhere else, then maybe when you pull your collective heads out of your asses, will you earn the nation's trust again.
March 19, 2009, 12:54 p.m. CST
what propogands? lol..i simply made a statement that "I'mmmmm Maaaaatt Daymon" who has strong anti war views is in a movie that is anti iraq war. it's a statement of fact...no need to act all amazing. Hollywood actors against the Iraq war has worked out so well in their films hasn't it?
March 19, 2009, 1:04 p.m. CST
If not I'm out.
March 19, 2009, 1:07 p.m. CST
Please save me from any more indecipherable Paul Greengrass action filmmaking.
March 19, 2009, 1:10 p.m. CST
Well it's funny, people don't go to see these movies, simply because people don't want to pay to see politics (of any kind). Some politicaly motivated films were actualy indeed great, but people don't see them because they're tired of it all. What really chips my ass is when douchebags use the troops as a way of showing that this war had just cause, but you can't argue against the willingly retarded.
March 19, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST
fuck ZACK SNYDER !
March 19, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST
by Darth Macchio
One of the worst things any political party can do is conflate the bungling of civilian leadership and calling said leadership on the bungling (our civic duty by the way) to meaning you think the troops are the insult du jour (Bush critics think our soldiers are __________ [choose one of the following: Terrorists, Nazis, Baby-killers, The REAL enemy, etc]).<p>Ironically, I haven't even seen a comedian do the old school "Well if the soldiers refused to fight, there'd be no wars!" (Carlin did this bit years ago)...NOBODY impugned the troops as a whole. EVER! Please, correct me by providing a link to anything where an actual 'known' person verbally attacked the men and women in uniform? I don't mean speaking of them as poor or unable to get a better gig than the military; those aren't insults if they are generalizations. I'm talking "Fuck the troops and fuck Bush too!" kinda shit. Nobody has said that since all this bullshit started! It was only certain pundits, very likely all busy during the VN draft of course, who said that to impugn our civilian leadership is to impugn our military. Basically saying they're the same thing. Well, they're fucking not the same thing at all.<p>It's a disgraceful political ploy used by the lowest pieces of political shit our country has to offer. Agree with the war or not, if you think criticizing the US Government is akin to criticizing our enlisted troops, then you have no ability to think beyond bumper sticker slogans or you are willfully filled with stupid.<p>Dems did it during Nam so far as I know and the Repubs did it with our current fiasco meanwhile all we, the public do, is attack each other and question each other without fucking EVER glaring back at the ass barnacles who actually caused this bullshit and epic fuckup in the first place: the politicians!
March 19, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST
We will all be in geek nirvana now, instead of geek nightmare... but don't worry, Snyder is planning, business plan wise, a come back-- the fucker with no talent will get another movie suckage going just because he does have a business plan -- something Greengrass does not.
March 19, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST
Ummm..what? Where did that comment come from. Must have been confused with a Watchmen review.
March 19, 2009, 1:40 p.m. CST
followed by: 02. Apocaypto, 03. Letters From Iwo Jima, 04. Blood Diamond, 05. Casino Royal, 06. Pans Labyrinth, 07. Running Scared, 08. The Departed, 09. Children Of Men, 10. The Proposition <p> LET THERE BE NO DOUBT.
March 19, 2009, 1:47 p.m. CST
Do we really need Hollywood-cast fictional adaptations of things that happened about three minutes ago? You want truth? Watch docs, watch footage, listen to interviews. But don't want Greg Kinnear. I mean, I like the guy but...um...he's an ACTOR. The whole act of making mass-media entertainment (and that's what this is)out of an ongoing political and news situations (no, it's not over guys, take off the wishful thinking hats, I know that they're comfortable and you can only concentrate on one bad situation at one but it's going to be war, climate change AND economic meltdown TOGETHER) is essentially puerile and makes no money.
March 19, 2009, 1:50 p.m. CST
by Darth Macchio
I gotta say I'm surprised there's no AICN mention of the rather huge drop off in ticket sales the 2nd week (especially considering Hayter's open letter). More mainstream pubs (not specifically cinematic) are saying it's a flop in the economic sense (obviously a bit early to tell definitively) but I'm surprised that will article after article after article and then, in case you missed it, more articles about Watchmen that the apparent 2nd week fizzle gets no mention on AICN.<p>Weird? Or just me?
March 19, 2009, 1:55 p.m. CST
Will not see this movie.
March 19, 2009, 2:17 p.m. CST
Thank you Team America: World Police.
March 19, 2009, 3:38 p.m. CST
From a few years back. I thought that a pretty good show too. I agree with you on Generation Kill.
March 19, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST
Was excellent. Also, I thought In the Valley of Elah was good, but that's not really a war movie. It's mostly a post-traumatic stress movie.
March 19, 2009, 3:56 p.m. CST
by The Eskimo
March 19, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST
The serious and action flip sides of the same idea. Jolie really SHOULD have been awarded every possible acting prize for that one. Agree with "-guyinthebackrow" about In The Valley Of Elah too, solid film. Stop Loss wasn't bad either.
March 19, 2009, 4:08 p.m. CST
"I'm not calling for jingoism, but seriously people. What about the good things that went on? The schools built, hospitals repaired, the two major elections (without much issue), and the scarred and disfigured kids flown to US hospitals to receive treatment?"<BR><BR> They fucking destroyed the schools and hospitals and left men, women and children burned and disfigured for life the LEAST you would expect is for them to put that shit right asshole. <BR><BR>"Did the bombing of Dresden make Germany's crimes irrelevant? Did Hiroshima/Nagasaki let Japan off the hook for Nanking?" <BR><BR>Exactly what crimes had the Iraqis done to deserve the unjust punishment handed to them by the USA's illegal occupation?
March 19, 2009, 4:12 p.m. CST
A Mighty Heart, Syriana and CSI. The best shootout since Heat also occures in The Kingdom. Beter Berg brings a bit of his Friday Night Lights asthetic to a big action flick, lending it some realism and character.
March 19, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST
March 19, 2009, 4:36 p.m. CST
STOP LOSS. But, RENDITION was bad.
March 19, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST
Easily the best film on the conflict. Still, Greengrass, Damon and Gleeson... I was fucking sold long before i read this review.
March 19, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST
predates the Bush administration. Not defending they're fuck ups, just sayin there is blame to go around. The UN and the Clinton administration were screaming about WMD's in Iraq throughout the 90's and Clinton almost invaded in '99 (went into Kosovo instead). Hopefully this is good though.
March 19, 2009, 5:55 p.m. CST
...where Hollywood turns his bike retrieval story into a spy drama with James Brolin and Morgan Fairchild. The book is a day-by-day diary about all of the jokers he met in the Green Zone and their futile, drop-in-the-bucket projects and the wishful thinking that drove them. It sounds like the screenplay turns this into some kind of Body of Lies cartoon. "Very loose" adaptation, indeed.
March 19, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST
funny how the whole Iraq War was at best, fought by accident, and no one thinks heads should literally roll for this. <p> like "oops, sorry about bombing the shit out of your country. we had bad intel. We thought you had WMDs, we thought you harbored terrorists, and we thought you wanted us to remove a dictator and be ruled by us. our bad, dawg. We'll know better next time."<p> i'm not liberal, btw, so spare me your moronic dittohead comeback of calling me a communist, America hater.
March 19, 2009, 7:54 p.m. CST
Show the US military as the good guys. Show some of the real heroes of this war without the typical Hollywood absurdity.
March 19, 2009, 7:59 p.m. CST
The entire WMD debaucle (and let there be little doubt it was ) played out like every leftist closeted Chomskyite fantasy. However, in defiance of all belief (and for that matter expectation) the willful cheering of outright failures that followed at the strategic--and less so, tactical-- level by the Left, as well as the newly entrenched anarcho-capitalist, paleocon, neoisolationist Paul bearer Right, which would hurt Iraq (oh and Iraqis) in the long run, never ceased to disgust me. The true story of the Iraq War, why it was fought and how a "success that turned to failure turned to success" will never be told. Hollywood is never satisfied with the truth and has to go back to the Vietnam well because that's all they know. Their dominant baby boomer generation has been weaned on cliches regarding the US military that were as awful then as they are now. Their collective amnesiac memories stop around 2007 and go no further, where this conflict is concerned and that's the real travesty.
March 19, 2009, 8:56 p.m. CST
Under George Sr. in the early 90's, not the current conflict. Jarhead is also from the "Desert Storm" era. But yeah, Three Kings is an excellent movie. Jarhead was decent too. I love how hypocritical these Hollywood liberal tools are though. I recall Clooney, when he was promoting Three Kings, talked up how horrible it was that America didn't stay in Iraq and finish off Sadam's regime instead of ambandoning the Iraq people that helped us to be slaughtered by Sadam & co. So selfish America acted disinginously two-faced and cowardly. Even though Bush 1 pulled out because of their protest. But of course when America went back in and refused to leave until some simblance of stability had been achieved, the U.S. was being stubbornly bullish and nation conquering colonialist. I mean, I'm not even declaring an opinion, but these Hollywood wannabe elitist can't even be consistant on their objections. It's either one or the other, it can't be both. But when Clinton was pussy-footin' around launching missels in between the old disapearing cigar trick with his "lady friends", I don't recall Clooney kickin up a bunch a dust about that, and making self-righteous movies dwelling on his failures. It's just so transparently obvious their skewed views are all political pandering toward a particular party's agenda. I'm no right-winger, far from it, just an independant thinker, but you gotta be consistant if you want to be taken seriously, not just spin every situation so that you come out smellin rosey. But I digress...
March 19, 2009, 9:21 p.m. CST
by maxwell's hammer
Seriously, some of you need to actually look at the source material before you bash the movie for being left-wing propaganda.<BR> <BR> Its not about how horrible America is, its about the gang sent to Iraq by the Bush administration, and how they really honestly tried to do the right thing, but had no fucking clue how to do it, which led to mistake after mistake which led to chaos and confusion.<BR> <BR> By the time that first wave of beaurocrats were done, we'd created a far bigger problem than when we started. It was like spotting the anti-American factions 10 points in a game to 21.
March 19, 2009, 9:29 p.m. CST
Fiasco by Thomas Ricks. Man what happened over there? Most powerful nation in the world and the team over there couldn't run a choko vine over an outhouse. Hey let's sack the entire Iraqi army in a land with no jobs and a rising insurgency and put people on the streets with access to weapons and explosives.
March 19, 2009, 9:34 p.m. CST
I think Greengrass is a fantastic filmmaker.
March 20, 2009, 1:18 a.m. CST
anarcho-capitalist, paleocon, neoisolationist Paul bearer Right?<p> ha. now i've heard it all. you should copyright that phrase, you formerly entrenched and hopefully deposed, fiscally irresponsible, neocon, emperialistic, Rush watercarrying conservative-in-name-only republican.<p> big words are fun.
March 20, 2009, 3:01 a.m. CST
I've also read the book on Black Hawk Down and watched the documentary. I'm sure those involved are glad the big hollywood film glossed over all the ugly truths and turned it into a shallow recruitment pitch. Why would I go to a VA hospital to share my beliefs with meat sacks? Why should I be more informed about what you've accomplished in Iraq, when the long term goal is to ensure I have more than China to choose from for a cheap manufacturing base and a plethora of worthy IT call centers. Again, I don't give a shit what your buddies think about politics. I pay them to act as human shields or beat populations into line. Like I give a fuck what they have to say or what happens to them. Theres plenty of white trash and poor minorities to fill their shoes if they get scrubbed. manzoniman, thats right. You won. You went into a weak and powerless nation and killed a whole lot of people. Be proud. THATS what people are objecting to. You also wasted how much money on this fucking fiasco? This movie will flop, like all Iraq movies because A) people who go to movies just don't care about Iraq that much, and B) its probably dry, witless, pretentious and cliched like most flicks dealing with the situation. Generation Kill was just about the only flick on the current war worth watching, and even then, the already book was as usual better.
March 20, 2009, 4:51 a.m. CST
by Leroys Poboys
All I'm saying is that you're insulting our troops because you're uniformed. The military is an excellent career choice, but no more or less so that accounting, media, marketing etc. Its simply a choice. A good portion of enlistees are actually intelligent, come from upper-middle class homes and are college graduates. They are not meatsticks and damn few are poor white trash or poor minorities. People who join the military knowingly make sacrifices on your behalf that you'll never understand if you've never been there. They are a level of citizen above any other because they serve their country, recently in a time of war, whether they agree with the war or not, without complaint. And there isn't one soldier serving in Iraq that would agree with your take on the war there or that thinks what we're doing there isn't the right thing to do. They are not brainwashed sheep, they are informed intelligent Americans. Nor is there anyone that was involved in Somalia that thought Black Hawk down glossed over anything or that it was a recruitment pitch. How are the realistically portrayed deaths of 18 young men good for sales? You should show those that volunteer to protect your freedoms and defend your country the respect they deserve. You can't say you're patriotic or love your country in the same breath you insult your country's troops. They are your country. And if you don't love your country, then why are you here? There's lots of other countries you could go to. All it takes is an application and couple hundred bucks and you could go live just about anywhere.There's plenty of other people in the world that would give their left eye to take your place as a US citizen.
March 20, 2009, 6:59 a.m. CST
...I'm not insulting them because I'm uninformed. I'm insulting them because its a retarded career choice. You get paid shit wages to do shit work. Not a single member of a volunteer force makes a sacrifice for me. And I'm sick of idiots telling me they do. They are paid, by me, to do what they are told to benefit the citizens (or at least a portion of the citizenry) of their employee country. They don't serve their country anymore than a cashier at McDonalds serves the country. As for their not being a soldier who doesn't think its the right thing to do, again, I don't give a fuck what they think. They are retards being paid to throw dogs off cliffs or teach third world savages how to shoot other third world savages. Why would I take the opinion of an uninformed labourer being paid to shoot poor people? As for your spiel for Black Hawk Down, your either lying or your friends are fucking retarded and maybe should look into counselling to deal with the massive amounts of memory loss they seem to have undergone. Again, just read the book, or listen to the documentary interviews with the guys who were there, and mark the enormous difference between that and the movie. I.E, the scores of women and children randomly gunned down, as opposed to one soldier umming and ahing about shooting one chick with a gun in the finished film. Not to mention the complete absence of noting what a giant failure the mission was and how in the end they didn't secure a single prisoner. Again, why do you keep demanding I show thugs in my employ respect, or mention they deserve it. They ARE NOT DEFENDING ME AT ALL. Not in the slightest. Iraq poses no threat to me in the slightest. If anything, I'm paying them to kill Iraqis to establish a U.S. friendly government so we can exploit the labour and manufacturing benefits that come from developing nations. They aren't my country. What the hell does that even mean? I love the country fine, and I don't mind them, I'm just sick of their pity fishing. Also, purchasing a wide screen TV is more patriotic than sucking its tax reserves dry so you can go play G.I. Joe in the middle east. Why should I leave the U.S. just because some welfare mooching assholes like members of the U.S. millitary whine like bitches about doing their jobs. How about you guys leave or go work for Black Water, and stop destroying the country by sucking its resources dry because your too stupid or lazy to get a real job.
March 20, 2009, 7:45 a.m. CST
The insults you hurl is a bit ingenuine to say the least. But nevertheless, I am correct in citing the trend of a neoisolationist right whose views are indistinguishible from their leftist counterparts on international interventionism. As for traditional conservatives and neocons, no I find no good company with the "Big Government Conservatives" nowadays. The whole movement needs to remember who they are because right now they're paying for it. As to the larger context at hand, how exactly does citing these people in any way detract from my original point about Hollywood's myopia on Iraq?
You simply don't get it. You are indeed uninformed. 1.) It's not a retarded career choice. If you're a non college graduate, you’re paid just under $35k per annum in combined salary and benefits from day one. After as little as a 3 year enlistment, you leave with 100% of your tuition, books and accommodation paid to attend almost any university in the world (as long as you can get in). If you’re a college graduate it can be double that, and the education benefits can then be put to a doctorate or masters degree. It’s certainly not shit work. You can within months be flying aircraft, playing music, doing advanced engineering, practicing emergency medicine of working in IT. There are over 300 career fields. Most careers in the military can be turned into six figure jobs in the civilian private sector post separation. Being ex military guarantees you free dental and heath care for life, as well as preferential rates on thousands of things from car insurance to airline tickets. If that’s retarded, I’m happy to drool. 2.) The sacrifices I refer to are the months (sometimes years) of training and studying and then months (sometimes years) away from loved ones, friends and family on your behalf. Living in austere conditions (and these days) doing all that under fire. This has ZERO to do with Iraq. Just because they’re somewhere fighting a war you don’t believe in, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be back here in a heart beat defending you if you were attacked. Or defending our allies if they were. They don’t enlist to go to Iraq (or anywhere else for that matter). They enlist to be soldiers and defend your freedom and your nation’s interests. They don’t care if they never go to war, or if they go every day of their lives. They only care that you’re safe and free. And they’re willing to die to make sure you are. The nation calls, and they answer. Bush said go, they went. If Obama sent them somewhere else tomorrow, they’d go just as fast. It’s their job, it’s that simple. They’re not pity fishing or whining or on welfare. I’ve never heard a soldier ask for thanks for one thing. If you can find a source where they have, please post it. 3.) Black Hawk Down: I’ve read the book and seen the documentary. But more importantly I served with some of those guys. I left that very company and unit three years before that mission. I know some of them personally, including some in the documentary. They’re not deluded, they don’t need counseling. Most are very, very successful in the civilian sector. If you did read the book you’d know the mission wasn’t a failure. Did it go badly, sure. We’re civilians tragically killed in the crossfire, absolutely. It was a crap day for all concerned. You (nor I) were there so we don’t deserve to play armchair quarterback. But they went in to get 2 guys and left with both of them, plus a handful of others. It wasn’t a failure. If you know people that were there that share your opinion, please post their name and I'll ring them. 4.) And make no mistake, every 17 year old enlistee to five star general are defending you, everyday, just by wearing the uniform. Every Seaman, Airman, Soldier of Marine and even the Coast Guard. If it wasn’t for our military our nation would be defenseless. That means you would be defenseless. They are our country because they form its defence. I hope that’s something you can one day understand.