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‘You’re Not Going To Believe This!!’ Ronald D. Moore’s BATTLESTAR GALACTICA Series Finale Begins Tonight!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them.
“They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.”
The Sacred Scrolls say that the Temple of Five (built by the 13th Cylon tribe more than 3,000 years ago) was dedicated to the five priests who worshiped "the one whose name cannot be spoken." For some reason the five priests bear the faces of the five Cylon resurrection scientists from “Earth” who were apparently born only 2,000 years ago?
And who is “the one whose name cannot be spoken”? The 2,000-year-old Cylons were polytheistic, like members of the other 12 colonies. (Apparently we’re to learn that it was a hot young computer genius named Zoe Greystone who turned the Cylons into monotheists back when Bill Adama was still a preteen.)
Why does Hera draw “All Along the Watchtower”? Why has Kara been painting The Eye of Jupiter since she was a lass? Why did Galactica happen upon the algae planet just as its sun was going supernova?
Who is the recalled seventh model, the artistic one named Daniel? Is he Kara Thrace’s daddy? Is he Kara Thrace’s former lover, Zak Adama? Could Bill Adama have somehow sired a Cylon?
Why does Roslin share Hera dreams with Boomer and Six?
Last week Baltar offered proof of Kara’s resurrection, which probably didn’t prove a huge surprise to anyone. (How strange that Baltar seemed to have only a passing familiarity with Starbuck after all this time!) We also saw Boomer return to the scary robot hive to hand Hera over to John Cavil, who was to introduce her to new “playmates.”
Does tonight’s hour focus on the retrieval of Helo and Athena’s little girl? SciFi says:
A call for volunteers is made for a final mission, as Galactica is stripped for parts.
“Galactica” mastermind Ron Moore co-wrote the two-hour series finale for “Star Trek: The Next Generation,” which starred Visor-Free LaForge and Greenskeeper Picard and received overwhelmingly favorable notices.
The finale script for “Battlestar Galactica” apparently put everyone in tears, including Ron Moore himself.
The first hour of the three-hour finale airs tonight; the final two hours air next week.
10 p.m. Friday. SciFi
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
60% Off GALACTICA!!
Season One: $23.99
Season Three: $23.99
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
60% Off GALACTICA!!
Season One: $23.99
Season Three: $23.99
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The Sarah Connor Chronicles is better than the last season and a half of this show.
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...so say me all.
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I can't..
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Give.
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anyways, this last chapter will have to been the most amazing thing ever after the craporama we've had to endure ove the past few weeks. Ellen Tigh: A Final Five? wtf!?! The Adama's relegated to supporting actors? Baltar as a religious leader? Come to think about, I really don't care anymore, time to get the season 1 DVD's out again.....
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...bet you're a damn yank, my post had to come all the ways from Northern Ireland , I really should get back to work.......
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That bothered me at first, but then I realized that he was just messing with her. Of course he knew who she was - but she was being aggressive with him so he turned into a dick, as he tends to do.
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...at sucking than BSG.
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I get all gitty in anticipation for tonights episode, only to be bummed out at the end of it. I hope that will not be the case tonight. PLEASE DO NOT LET US DOWN!!!!!
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Just sayin'.
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... and for my Very First Post, I'm gonna lay out a couple of mind-boggling spoilers for the ending of BSG. Skip if you don't want to know the ending! You have been warned!
1) Daniel, the seventh Cylon, is Kara Thrace's father. You probably figured this one out already. What you didn't know was, Daniel is ALSO Gaius Baltar's father. In-head Six (and in-head Baltar, In-head Slick, etc.) is Daniel's way of "guiding his loved ones" -- projecting helpful advice into their minds via "angels". Yes, this means Starbuck and Baltar did the Kentucky-style nasty. Not sure how she resurrected in a new Viper, though.
2) Roslin is connected thanks to her Cylon-baby stem cell injection, which is how she is able to see the opera house stuff and share visions with the Cylons.
3) Adama, Roslin and Hybrid-Anders, who is now Galactica's "pilot", will go down with the ship. Those of you who guessed Galactica was "the dying leader" were correct, though some may also be led to believe it was Baltar.
4) Anders "piloting" the Galactica will figure quite prominently into the ending. So do the Raiders and the Centurians.
5) The last human/Cylon survivors make it to a habitable planet, which Cavil knew the location of for a long, long time. Guess what they decide to call it? And the fact that the dead Earth found at the mid-season closer more or less had many of the same landmarks our Earth has (the Brooklyn Bridge, etc.) ties in to the "all of this has happened before ..." schtick.
Am I right? Guess we'll know in a week or so ... -
How excited am I? Very excited. I just hope this is up to par.
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Edward James Olmos milks one more Adama Meltdown(tm)!,p>
Film At 11! -
Forgot to mention that, while the last three hours are gonna be fairly satisfying (unlike a good portion of this last half-season, which felt like they had ideas for maybe four great episodes and went "Oh, shit, but we gotta do like ELEVEN of these goddamn things!"), you can expect a lot of Adama Meltdowns and more flashbacks than the first season of "Lost", which means pretty much everyone who's ever been on the show at any time will be back. As it stands, they could have trimmed it down to one hellacious hour finale. Still, three more hours of BSG means less air time for "Moonlight" or that show where the blonde chick from "Stargate SG-1" pretends to be British.
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*they had ideas for maybe four great episodes and went "Oh, shit, but we gotta do like ELEVEN of these goddamn things!"*
/que adama meltdown #11 -
Otherwise the time and investment into this series will be hugely over rated... Time will not look back on it if the end is shite...
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than a warm glass of milk for putting me to sleep.
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from the talkbacks I will guess Heroes, Dollhouse, and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles will be take BSG's place, which is fine.
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something with not as black drama
And bewbs please -
Yeah, Supernatural is back tonight.
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Those awesome KFC commercials. WTF, how many in one hour?
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Loved the sttng finale. hoping BSG lives up to its finale.
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I think BSG could have not used the Final Five plot and made the show better. In the overview they really were unnecessary and useless. The writers could have managed the same end result using just the rebellious Cylons. From where the show is today the Final Five are a useless plot device to string out a season. They have accomplished far less than the rebellious Cylons and are essentially unused. What is worse was saddling Chief as one of the final five. That was over complicating a character who has made so many bad choices he could be Sean's son on Nip Tuck.
Now I have to wonder why those extra hidden Cylons were written in. Their whole use is virtually non-existent. At the very least it could have been revealed they were secretly guiding/evolving humanity. But that never happened.
What the fuck is up with them released into the wild with wiped memories? -
...when it's inside the Cylon base orbiting Jupiter. Survivors settle on nearby habitable planet.
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I have to agree with you. the build up was more interesting there for a while. Then the reveal happened and it was back as usual. Tory is just stands 'there' and her character has gone nowhere. The same can be said about the others. looking back before these final 3 episodes air, that whole outta nowhere plot was really uncessesary but Ron Moore wanted it to happen so I have faith that these final 3 hours will expand or bring resolution to that story and those characters.
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Especially YOU
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are you two guys with spoilers trying to imply that Moore is going to go with the whole "GALACTICA SURVIVOURS SETTLE ON OUR EARTH" bit of business? Are you shitting me? That's been a part of BSG fan fiction for years. If he really goes in that direction. I would be shocked. It would be a good bit of business, but it's very much fan inspired.
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is still confusing. Somebody needs to make a pictograph so that people can understand how the story goes, similar to the evolution charts you see with dinosaurs. I still don't get it.
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Do the survivors play scrabble with the filthy proto hu-maans on this new planet?
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Weak.
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Anticipation...killing...me...ACCKK!!
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I'm finally up-to-date (after discovering the show around a month ago..I live in a tiny town in Japan & don't have satellite/cable). I must admit, the "final five"stuff has been a bit of a let down, but as for some of the other complaints I read here sometimes, I can only say the sheer scope of this show & the characters in it are better than pretty much anything I've seen on Tv.
Armageddonproductions..where do you get your info from? Oh & you said "that show where the blonde chick from "Stargate SG-1" pretends to be British."
The "blonde chick from Stargate" is British, isn't she? Or was born there at least. I'm sure I saw an interview in the U.K where she was speaking with an English accent.
Unless she's one of these Gillian Anderson types who just changes it whenever she feels like it? -
Fill up that time slot w/something watchable. *Yawn*- the series crawls slowly, like an adolescent's- after party- drunken dream, filled w/teenage angst & leaves a dry unsatisfied taste in one's mouth.
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aren't going to be answered.
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You don't watch that much Sci-Fi Channel, do you?
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An "adolescent's after-party drunken dream"... (Sorry, I slightly paraprhased you so as to use the Hyphen correctly)..SHOULD leave a dry unsatisfied taste in "one's" mouth.
If "one" woke up with a noticeably wet, satisfied taste, that would be time to call the Police. -
I used to, but, I admit- it's declined sharply for the last several years.
The Dark Shite- Touche ! ;) -
Don't talk French to me!
Nah, if you read closely, I mispelled paraphrased, while taking the piss outta your hyphen. It's all just a bit of fun.
Gotta disagree about BSG though, as long as they deliver for the ending, it'll go down as landmark TV in my book. The only problem is, that so many people expect so much of them. Maybe a few people might be disappointed. -
Heck Mick Jagger is barely familiar with Jerry Hall.....
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I will not be live-blogging tonight's episode as I am going to see Jesus Christ Superstar. My heartfelt apologies.
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If it was that easy to time travel from the future then I suggest that all of humanity ferry over to 2009....
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How perfect would that song be in a Zombie movie. When she sings " he scares me so" fucking awesome.
I also feel Crimson and Clover could be used to full effect in a Slasher/Zombie/horror movie. -
...Amanda Tapping, is British...as you said, and was raised in Canada.
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...should STILL be a BSG spin off - at some point.That would allow TPTB to bring back key actors from the current show.
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The past few eps have been like watching a floating goldfish in the bowl by your bed for an hour every Friday night. Slow moving, repeating Adama crying\drunk\painting\meltdowns, Starbuck tinkering on pianos, MORE "Watchtower" music, and lots of hand wringing in the guts of the ship with forlorn faces. I am more then ready for this to be over. No matter what web site I read, who I ask, or who posts here, the "history" of who of what is the 13th tribe and the timeline of who came where when and did what is completely different. I can think of no other series where 4 eps from the end, a major character talks and spouts Exposition for an hour and you STILL cant line it up in a straight line. I really want the last 3 hours to EXPLODE as it use to be and what it can be when its ON like the Mutiny episodes this year. I am not going to hold my breath.
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I've said before that BSG has a very strange culture where technology barely creeps into their daily lives. But the whole Cylon mythos has now become distorted and confusing.
First why the fuck would Cavil mindwipe the final five? The given excuse is lame.
Second how would the final five allow themselves to be wiped? I'm sure they wrote in a backdoor shutdown code so their creations didn't go Frankenstein like the first time.
If their is a Caprica show it would have to include the final five, because they had NOT been mindwiped at that point.
If they are not included as prime movers and shakers,even if the show goes all the way back over two thousand years, Caprica would not be consistent with the History created in the waning days of BSG. -
B: Well, oh, it's the Great White North, and it's snowing 'cause it's
Christmastime. Hey, hoser!
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It's been a great ride, with the great episodes far outnumbering the bad. TV's gonna be a lot worse off without BSG.
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BSG is hands down the only reason I watch TV nowadays. And now it's merely 3 hours from its conclusion. It has truly been a wonderful experience Mr. Moore, and I'm looking forward to tonight!
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But bring on the finalé. Im waiting!!!!!!1
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Can somebody PLEASE give me a link to last week's BSG full episode. Where the hell is it!?!
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Speaking of Zombies, Ted Neeley is still playing Jesus. He's been playing Jesus longer than Jesus did.
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To be fair, when its on, its ON. I just have such a bad taste in my mouth with the X-FILES mythology whereby even with a 2hour finale dedicated to everyone laying it all out in a line from a to z it made no sense. Bees, Black Oil, Indians, Immunization records, etc etc.
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....until DioxBladeRunner starts his rants again and we all ridicule him. Sweet.
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If the series has any kick ass narrative, dramatic or action heft remaining, it better deliver starting tonight. Unfortunately, the number of plot threads desperately requiring at least some attention makes me cynical... Can they salvage a cohesive point to the show given all the stuff they've thrown up onto the wall and then seemingly abandoned? Even the "Five" are verging on complete uselessness and they were *just* introduced. Fingers crossed!
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..but this could be the best three hours of Television ever and people will still complain. BSG has Watchmen Syndrome.
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I could give you a link right now, but it would be an admission of guilt (despite buying & physically owning the box sets, which I guess removes me from harm).
I know, I know, that's a bit like saying "I can give you the best steak ever..but I can't."
If ya don't mind paying a bit, I've heard you can watch it on itunes pretty cheaply. -
What, is this Lord of the fucking Rings now? Zoe Greystone?? Give me a break already.
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It sucks. It used to be decent, but this season has sucked out loud. The low budget "dream sequence" episode was an hour of my life I wish I could have back.
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I understand but I've been watching them on hulu/scifi channel for the last few months. They've just neglected to post last week's Islanded in a stream of stars episode. Frustrating!
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I couldn't give a link, but STILL almost incriminated myself. Fuck.
I'll buy the whole thing TV guys, I promise (actually, the sad thing is, I WILL). 'cause I want the real deal & frankly I kinda have to now 'cause I've blown a small fortune on the earlier stuff;-).
My wife still doesn't understand the attraction of a DVD filled Cylon head in the corner of the room.
The best I can tell her is that Cylon head is better than nothing. -
Gay if it's true. Seriously there would be none of the major characters except the Adamas, Roslyn and Helo who are actually still full blooded filthy hu-maans. And if those spoilers are correct half of them don't even survive. So if I rewatch the show from the begining it reduces the impact of the filthy hu-mans finding Earth because most of them we follow on a regular basis ARENT ACTUALLY FRACKIN FILTHY HU-MAANS!!!
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I getcha! I usually have the same problem. I can't get Sci-fi channel stuff (despite it supposedly being an international site) nor Hulu (apparently it isn't available where I am).
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This show used to be exciting, now it's bogged down by it's own stupid myth's and the lingering stink of Jane ESPN's writing lingers.
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last 3 hours have made me cry as well
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I get it; they tried to blur the line between "good" and "bad" with the Cylons. At first, they were evil, they nuked Caprica, etc., but then the skinjobs were revealed as among them, they brought up fairly weighty issues involving "human" rights as pertaining to Cylons, etc. I get all that, and I appreciate the show for what it tried to do. But it just went too damn far. Saul as a Cylon has basically ruined it for me. And then you need a fracking guidebook to follow the convoluted war timeline...it's just not worth it anymore. I miss the good ol' days where Starbuck was a drinking, ass-kicking pilot who went out on missions and blew apart Cylons. And then they had to go and ruin it.
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...should be banned.Come on, Herc. You guys did it for LOST.
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I can't handle another week of nonsense. They better get into the shit tonight.
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Because everything else since then has been shit.
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For some reason, the Sci-Fi Channel decided a few weeks ago to stop putting up their BSG replays the day after the initial broadcast. Everything is now delayed a week. Why they did this is a mystery to me as it puts a crimp in my Saturday/Sunday morning late-night recovery routine...
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im still waitin. ima dylan fan.
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but Tom Petty, who is the Cylon model of Dyan
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they never hired Jane Epseron (sp).
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According to TiVO, next week's is a re-cap.
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It is written in the stars.
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The Scifi Channel must be run by Cylons. Hopefully, last wks. ep. will pop up soon!
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Mar 13, 2009 9:54:43 AM CDT
This better not be a TNG circle jerk.
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
Sometimes I think the shows spiraling into some sort of TNG love in. I realize that everyone falls into one of two categories: Kirk or Picard. The reason I didn't like Picard is that lot of the plot resolutions were all touchy feely new age crap. Give me Kirk literally (or explosively) fucking things up. With that in mind, I agree that the dying leader is the Galactica because they only heavy handedly did foreshadowing a couple of episodes ago. Hell, even the beginning of the show refers to the ship "leading" the survivors. I think there are too many loose ends to tie up and whatever happens will leave a lot of people whining about it, myslef included.
One last thing, where was the Chief last week? Was he hiding in the bowels of the ship licking his wounds because Boomer did it to him again? There's your battered chief syndrome. -
I can all ready tell.
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Mar 13, 2009 10:04:21 AM CDT
If "All along the Watchtower" brought us to this point,
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
will Journey's "Wheel in the Sky" or maybe "Separate Ways" lead us after?
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Still the best and only required reason to watch. Yum.
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...cram an object of considerable size into your weeping cakeholes. I can't think of many TV series better that BSG. The writing, special effects, cliffhangers, direction, character development - all high quality. Am I tired of Adama have a "The View" moment every ep? Of course I am - but it's forgivable considering how great this series has been. The creators ran a marathon with BSG, and if they're lagging just a bit at the finish line, don't panic - they have enough left for one strong kick. Thanks for years of outstanding, thought-provoking drama, BSG.
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Where ever he was, he was in the fetal position because he got punk'd in a way only an Eight can do.Television won't be the same without the Eights.
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I mean, I can't believe they actually had 3 episodes in a row where there was some stupid final character development and final plot setup. How dare they take the time to build anticipation? And I get really angry when I don't get answers when I want them, and it makes me want to completely discount this show, although I've been more entertained by it than any other failure of a sci-fi/genre series. There's no excuse for RDM and Co. to create the anxiety of uncertainty regarding the wrapping up of loose plot threads, or lack thereof. Goddamn this show for not being carried out the way I think it should be. End.
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So far, the majority of season 4 (outside of the Gaeta rebellion) has been pretty uninspired. And with so many questions left, and so little time, I don't see how anything could possibly be resolved. I'm just praying that it'll at least echo the greatness of seasons 1 and 2 (and the opening of season 3), and be heart-wrenching and exciting, the way it used to be.
On a completely different note, I remember watching the Star Trek: TNG finale when I was 9 years old. I had never seen TV as powerful and amazing until watching those last episodes. . .it cemented my love for all things sci-fi. Hopefully, Ron Moore can do something equally amazing for the end of BSG. -
Actually, if the final five were to appear on the Caprica series their role would have to be the dramatic irony of being cut to to say "We have to warn them not to build artificial intelligence." every time there is progression on the AI plot. The 5 didn't arrive in the colonies until the first Cylon war. They actually stopped it. Caprica takes place earlier than that.
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just like life, full of questions and no answers. plus it will piss of many and your tears of frustration will bring me joy.
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That's why there has been a drop in quality, fact.
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on here? New posters popped up with Spoilers? I've got a feeling that I know where this season is headed, and I'm going to enjoy it no matter what.
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"I remember watching the Star Trek: TNG finale when I was 9 years old. I had never seen TV as powerful and amazing until watching those last episodes. . .it cemented my love for all things sci-fi"
Funny.
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Cut to THE BRIDGE. Everyone's gone, except Adama, Tigh, Roslin and perhaps the Chief. Flying the gauntlet of Basestars protecting the Colony, Adama rams the Galactica right down Cavil's throat. With his dying breath, "From Hell's heart I stab at thee..."
BOOM. EXPLOSIONS. DEATH.
Oh Frak! Hera! But, unbeknown to us, Helo and Athena have snuck into the colony using a Cylon Heavy Raider as cover. They run through the theatre, grabbing Hera before she opens the door to a screening of Plan 9 from outer space. They get back to the raider, but right before they board it, Boomer steps out and grabs Hera. She's going to kill her, but the Chief steps out of the shadows, shooting Boomer and then with tears in his eyes, takes his own life, his body falling in perfect arrangement next to Boomers. As the Colony falls apart all around them, Helo and Athena board the raider (finally!), but as the door closes, Cavil appears and screams "Give me the child!" But Athena takes her gun and with a cold sneer pulls the trigger saying: "I'm no one's pet." BLAM!
Ron, I've done my part.
Where's my money? -
You said it, sir. Seelix is one sexy mamajama.I wonder if her and Racetrack ever went the Gaeta bi-curious route...
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Any planet that the survivors find will be populated by Gorns.
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In the brig and we'll see that on the extended version on DVD, at least according to Bear McCreary's blog.
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Yeah, during the episode of LOST when they actually flashed-forward and revealed that they got off the island, there were new Talkbackers who started showing up and spoiling it for everyone. The AICN Mods (in the interest of everyone who had not yet seen it) wisely decided to bring down the Ban Hammer.Considering we've only got another week to go (and I'm sure there are some folks who have probably been lucky enough to see the full series' finale and would love to ruin it for others) it would be nice to keep these threads "spoiler-free" until the actual broadcast.
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All I know is McCreary's reworking of the original series theme (called the "Colonial Anthem" in this new show) better be somewhere in the fucking finale next week. That is such a great piece of music and it BETTER be in before the show ends, preferably over the final credits.
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I realize its not like we're paying for those or anything but still.. a week later and its still not up?
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I wonder if Hera will magically disarm the final doomsday nuke with a glowing aura of magic like the half-breed did in the shitty V: Final Battle miniseries.
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Going to watch the show at a brewpub/theater tonight hosted by Katee Sackhoff who'll do a Q&A afterwards. It's about damn time something cool like that happens in Portland.
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Surely you jest.
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Mar 13, 2009 11:00:11 AM CDT
Austin weather today, March 13, 2009
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
Cold, wet, drizzly.
But the forecast for Galactica is HOT HOT HOT! -
Silver pocket watch: $60
Weird machine having something to do with quantum mechanics: $10,000,000,000
Tank repair: $850,000
Saving the world while shamelessly exposing a member comparable in length to a horse: Priceless
Some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's Dr. Manhattan.
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From your mouth to God's ear.
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The same time that Nite Owl is saving the Wayne's.
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That's bullocks!
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And blue crank. Dr. Bronx will make it all better.
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It's making me wa-a-a-a-ait.
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Seelix and Racetrack!? You just blew my mind, sir. I was so pissed they sided with Gaeta. Hope they didn't get shot over it or anything.
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Whether Tapping was actually born in the U.K. or not, the accent ain't real, all I'm saying. Though I'll change it from "pretending to be British" to "trying too damn hard to be British", if that sounds better.
Something that happened between Anders and the Raiders in an earlier episode will come into play again, this time on a much larger scale.
I think "All Along The Watchtower" is supposed to be like the wreckage of the 2,000 year old Brooklyn Bridge on Cylon Earth: it's just an indicator that this "all happened before and will happen again" (it's also Daniel's way of "reaching" his children). However, it suggests that Dylan didn't write the song, but a Cylon did about 10,000 (?) years ago (going by our history, not BSG's) and Dylan's diluted Cylon/human DNA picked up on it somehow.
The ending's a bit contrived (and fanboy-ish), especially since the way that the survivors get the info on how to get to our Earth arrives in roughly the same manner that the butler in SPIDER-MAN 3 let James Franco know that his dad wasn't murdered by Spider-Man. However, it basically ends the same way it could have ended mid-season, minus a few of the leads and some radioactive rubble. Baltar does make it to Earth ... however, after his arrival (and his dubbing the new planet "Earth"), things don't look so good.
The big winners here are the Raiders and Centurians, who wind up splitting for parts unknown after coming into play for the finale. I assume they wind up going to Cylon-1 or wherever and sharpening their knives until present day, when they come back to mete out some nuclear justice on humanity (i.e.: us).
I'm pretty sure this is all answered by next Friday, which kind of makes "The Plan" superfluous. In fact, I'm not sure why a couple of the padding-heavy episodes weren't eliminated and "The Plan" wasn't put in their place. -
We've been discussing those rumors in the previous BSG talkback... all sources say they've been debunked (unverifiable. They originate from IMDB forums with NO credibility).
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But I have to say most of this season has been disapoint (both halves). I think it has gotten too touchy feeling and mystical and lost a lot of it's edge. I have no problems with setting up things for later episodes or character development, but I don't think that has been the problem with this season. I feel that the show is a bit rudderless and taken the whole mythology in too many different direction at the cost of many of the main characters.
Is Lee Adama even on the show anymore? You'd forget he is even on anymore other than his obligatory cameo each episode. Same with President Roselyn. I am tired of Balter as some spiritual cult leader. I am tired of Tyrol just walking around the ship moping all the time (aparently that passes for his character development).
I know I will get flamed for this, but I haven't had a problem with this show until this year. I just think the show might have gone a year too long. I am looking forward to response the holier than thou BSG fans who feel they are intellectually superior than anyone who will not blindly praise this show and ignore any problems with the show. -
Are probably due to sharing Hera's blood, I would think...
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WITCH! BURN HIM!
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Like I said, we'll know for sure whether or not I'm right by next Friday, and no, I didn't get this info from the IMDb forums. Bear in mind that Katee Sackhoff, for example, is still going around saying that Starbuck is not a Cylon. I think certain things have to be denied in order to keep people watching.
Thankfully, no, Hera doesn't have V-baby powers. Her central importance to the finale (aside from being the MacGuffin that drives everybody to launch an assault on Cavil) is that her existence is proof that the Cylons and the human survivors can interbreed and both races can continue. -
in this TB. No need to ban anyone. Per TPR, It's just some dude at the IMDB tb who *slightly* modified some other IMDB talkbacker's crazy theory. This is rumor control:
Here's the UNVERIFIED modified theory: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/board/thread/132672374?d=132688666&p=3#132688666
and here is the UNVERIFIED crazytalk that spawned it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/board/thread/132672374?p=1
NEITHER source has given any authority whatsoever... no one has even attempted to vouch for these sources (at least who hasn't recanted).
Reasons why these rumors are highly suspicious based on what we know:
1). Kara's blood is human. It has been confirmed multiple times. She CANNOT be a hybrid (at least without some serious explanation to retcon events as recent as last week's episode- highly unlikely).
2). Neither post accounts for many of the scenes that fans familiar with BSG finale spoilers are aware of. I won't go too far into these, but they are out there if you look for them. One of the "spoilers" listed in both IMDB posts seems directly contradictory to what is CONFIRMED to be in the finale.
That being said, it isn't IMPOSSIBLE that the "spoilers" posted on this tb and others aren't accurate... but it is HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that they are.
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Mar 13, 2009 12:15:57 PM CDT
BSG was fine when it was us vs. them.
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
As soon as they started with all the interbreeding and everyone being a Cylon, it lost its way. When they reveal Daniel, it will be an "Oh, he's a Cylon too." moment. What we want is the death of Cavil (you know you want it), the redemption of Boomer ('cause she's hot and hot women always win in the end), peace of mind for Tigh, a glorious death for Adama (old admirals needn't fade away) and finding something in the end (earth?) All the rest of it will be pointless. Yes, it can all happen again, but the story should have an ending. If it just keeps going in a circle, what's the point? We arrive back where we started, wiser for the experience, but right back at the start. Baltar will leave the fleet, join the Cylons and eventually become the Imperious Leader. Heh,
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"Like I said, we'll know for sure whether or not I'm right by next Friday, and no, I didn't get this info from the IMDb forums. "--- I'm sure you didn't... that rumor has been floating around all over the place ever since it hit Ragnar Anchorage and Patriot. BOTH those sources now dismiss it as fantheory.
I bet you got it from any of the 5+ sources that have been reprinting it, but it ALL ORIGINATES FROM IMDB.
And it's not an issue of whether *you* are right or wrong. No one really cares about that. It's whether your source of information is reliable.
If you think you have a source that predates the IMDB post, then by all means, share it. I know I'm seriously interested in seeing it. Until then, everyone that has posted it has tracked it back to an unknown user on the IMDB forum... -
The Colonial Theme DID already appear. Go back and watch the season 2 episode "Final Cut". At the end of the documentary, patriotic music plays over the Galactica crew...that was the theme from the original series.
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Are the next three hours of this show supposed to wrap things up, or do we have to wait for "The Plan" to have some sort of (ha ha) logical conclusion to the series? Is it a 3-hour finale, or a 5-hour finale with another long gap between episodes?
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It will be sad when this show ends. I truly believe that some poeple have never really understaood what the show is about. But oh well. This season has been superb. It can go out with its head held high.
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We used poisonous gasses. And we poisoned their asses.
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I'm the person who posted the following at the IMDb:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt04 07362/board/thread/132672374?d =132688666&p=3#132688666
And to confirm, those AREN'T actual spoilers. It's all just speculation, a response to the initial post in the thread. :) -
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened in a huge plot twist.
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Mar 13, 2009 12:32:04 PM CDT
I'm crying that the original Galactica show never ended properly
by mrmysteryguest
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Don't miss any.
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Get the Earth Scouts ready. We're headin' out.
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Target those cylons and......FIRE..torpedoes
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These episodes won't be that good.
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I know, I remember that episode. What I'm saying is they should reprise it in the finale somewhere. Don't you think?
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and a guy walks up and tells Six
"I'm Chuck Bass" -
Mar 13, 2009 1:17:26 PM CDT
SPOILER: Sci-Fi exec reads final show script, says "No one's gon
by mrmysteryguest
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Mar 13, 2009 1:18:09 PM CDT
-na watch this", then throws every BSG script in trash!
by mrmysteryguest
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I think someone needs to hit up Walgreens and get a bottle of ActRite
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Mar 13, 2009 1:21:12 PM CDT
SPOILER: Neo pops up, tells everybody "The Matrix has you!!!"
by mrmysteryguest
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and a guy walks up to Six and says "hello Six. I'm Jackie Treehorn.
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...and a guy walks up to Six and says, "Hello Six. I'm Special Agent Dale Cooper".(Come on Lynch!!! Save Cooper!!!)
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Mar 13, 2009 1:30:41 PM CDT
SPOILER: They get to a new planet - the planet blows up!!!
by mrmysteryguest
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...from an escape pod into a Kansas field, where she is discovered by Jonathan and Martha Kent.
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tortured by Cardassians.
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Mar 13, 2009 1:59:29 PM CDT
SPOILER: Terminators invade Galactica, kill everyone on board!!!
by mrmysteryguest
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...at Sterling Cooper where the mantle of the "Best Show on TV" is handed over to Don Draper.
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Galactica, just as it's about to be abandonded for good, becomes baddass due to Cylon jizz plus Anders as a hybrid and blows every goddamn basestar outta space for one last moment of glory before Adama goes down with it. While he's nailin' Roslin in the bridge. And maybe pass around another blunt.
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He's an Admiral, dammit.
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Ha! That would be classic.I can just see Adama and Tigh sitting across from Draper and Sterling - each one of them sizing up the bottle of rye whiskey that sits between them.Meanwhile, Joan Holloway tours the BSG girls around the office (showing them what their new duties will be) as cat-calls can be heard eminating from Kinsey, Cosgrove, and Crane. And Pete Campbell makes a pass at Starbuck only to receive a fist to the throat.Classic television still in the making.
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there better be one KICKASS space battle in these final 3 episodes...there hasn't been one frakkin' dogfight all year!!!!
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I really hope he keeps the breakdowns to a minimum from here on out. Go out with some dignity, man.
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Mar 13, 2009 2:29:41 PM CDT
SPOILER: Galactica encounters the U.S.S. Voyager...hilarity ensu
by mrmysteryguest
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Mar 13, 2009 2:31:42 PM CDT
upside-down all this time-they have to go the other way!!!
by mrmysteryguest
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Mar 13, 2009 2:36:26 PM CDT
If the Adama gets replaced by Jack Sparrow, the series would be
by lockesbrokenleg
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just a metaphor. Earth is in our hearts.
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That's why Kara was screaming "WE'RE GOING THE WRONG WAAAAYYYYY!!!!"
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He's the one that got Boomer pregnant.
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used in Watchmen. Could mean that Rorshach's journal was found and Russian and US nuked each other. This is the earth Galactica arrived on.
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I wanna see an all-6 11-way.
or an all-8 15-way. -
needs to frak Starbuck in her godsdamn face one time
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when Kara was tinkling?
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I guess I should have known that Adama's upturn with the bottle ala Sterling Cooper was a clear sign that things were about to EXPLODE.
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Adama's been boozin' harder than Tigh lately
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not look half Korean but Boomer's projection her kid did?
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When you ask these silly questions that you seem to pepper every AICN Talkback with, do you actually expect an answer or do you just post to hear yourself think?
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tonight: More moping about while they dismantle galactica and Adama gives a drunken speech
next week: they decide to go looking for Hera, Anders drops Galactica into one last battle
THEN
they jump to their new home right as the battle begins. Adama looks at the camera and mutters "Frak the fans!" Then a goofy dream sequence ensues and it goes into the future and there's a hut on a beach and Hera is holding hands with a Centurian. Six and Baltar walk towards him. The centurian turns around and has the face of Starbuck.
There is no way they are going to answer questions and satisfy the fans, it's all over folks. -
Just able to join in on this and reply to you. (so if someone else already said this, sorry for the redundancy. Sorry for the redundancy.) OK- the bridge that you referred to as the Brooklyn Bridge is actually distinctly different than the BB. Right after that episode, I googled lots of images of the BB and the buttresses are way different to the point of excludin the possibility of that Earth-like planet's bridge being the Brooklyn Bridge. Just sayin'... Of course, the vague nature of that sequence may just be RM's way of jerking us all around. I am still not convinced that that was Earth, at least not ours. So say me all!
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...of ALL the things they've left open ended until the very end of the series... Not to mention what the Six is doing in Baltor's head, or who or what's responsible for any of the 'imaginary' people who visit cast members... it all leaves me very dubious that this will be tied up neatly. STNG didn't have this kind of back story.
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All talkbacks until i get a proper Supenatural one
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Mar 13, 2009 3:52:59 PM CDT
SPOILER: Alan Moore walks in, declares ending "unfilmable"
by mrmysteryguest
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the mutiny story line that kicked off this set of ten was so good. I thought this last block was going to be awesome but dear lord the last few episodes have been boring.
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I didn't read all of the responses so I don't know if anyone addressed this or not. I understand why some of you feel this plot device wasn't needed, but I have to disagree. Even though there would have still be Cylon rebels and what not, I don't think Adams/Roslyn or anyone else for that matter would have agreed to stand by their side (even reluctantly) without the final five device. Especially having Tigh as one of them simply because he has been Adama's best friend and confidant for so long. I think it was a little overused, and they should actually be a little more useful than they are, but I still think they were essential for the show to get where it is.
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Then drinks a stiff one.
THE END -
I hope. Unless spoilers means wild-assed guess. Some things are pretty well telegraphed by the last few episodes though. Wiring Anders into the Galactica and talking about the stuff he can't access yet has to mean something, so does showing the damage caused by jumping one ship when inside another. But that's just details, frak only knows how it's all going to play out. Damn, I'll miss BSG when it's gone.
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too much time on your hands..try to get out more..
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and all of the leftover DNA shot on the walls will mix with the cylon structural goop and form the super human/cylon megahybrid that will be the point of the entire series. because we all need to learn to live together in peace and lameness.
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The last 3 eps have been a bit ..ponderous! But still class, and nowere near boring! God forbid some of you have to use your noggins a bit! Anyway, you will be missed BSG
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Adamma is heard to shout "And I'll form the head!"
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"But the whole Cylon mythos has now become distorted and confusing."--- I really don't see what is particularly confusing about it. There's a timecycle of humans creating cylons and cylons rebelling against humans in order to make themselves more human-like.
"First why the fuck would Cavil mindwipe the final five? The given excuse is lame."--- I think it's logical if you can accept that Cavil is chiefly interested in proving his point to his "parents."
"Second how would the final five allow themselves to be wiped? "--- Cavil KILLED all the Final Five. He gassed them to death. When he resurrected them, he didn't allow them to retain their memories. If you have questions, I'd suggest waiting until "The Plan" before complaining about it being "lame."
"If their is a Caprica show it would have to include the final five"--- No it wouldn't. The show may end before the FF arrive on Earth, or before the Centurions rebel, or maybe even before the Centurions are created. The Final Five may have nothing to do with the Graystones or Joseph Adama or Zoe. As of yet, there's no confirmed connective tissue (even though it seems likely that #7 may be a Cylon version of Graystone... but that hasn't been confirmed yet).
"because they had NOT been mindwiped at that point."--- Yeah... they were TRAVELLING THROUGH SPACE at that point. The FF don't even reach the colonies until the war IS IN PROGRESS for years. The show Cprica takes place over a decade earlier than the arrival of the FF.
"If they are not included as prime movers and shakers,even if the show goes all the way back over two thousand years, Caprica would not be consistent with the History created in the waning days of BSG."---- You're just plain wrong. Here's the BSG timeline from the time of the attack on the 12 colonies:
4,000+ years ago: Humans create Skinjob Cylons. Skinjobs (13th tribe) leave for Earth.
3,600-2,000 years ago: Humans leave Kobol.
2,000 years ago: Earth Destroyed. FF leave for the colonies. Humans settle on the 12 colonies.
50+ years ago: Daniel Graystone and Zoe Graystone create Zoe-R, the first Caprican Skinjob.
50 years ago: Graystone and others create Centurions. Centurions rebel and begin Cylon War 1.
40+ years ago: The FF arrive at the colonies. Make a deal to create colonial Skinjobs in exchange for an end to the war. Battlestar Columbia Destroyed. William Adama gets his first combat mission.
30+ years ago: Cavil is created by FF. Other 12 models are created. Cavil kills the Final Five and reintroduces Saul into the colonies.
As you can see, there is NO INCONSISTENCY WHATSOEVER in saying that Caprica doesn't need the Final Five to tell that story. -
Guess we'll never know if you started the rumors or not. That's the thing with anonymity.
It doesn't matter. What's important is that those rumors aren't backed by any source of authority. -
Mar 13, 2009 5:16:08 PM CDT
For whatever its worth, Lost and BSG are my favorite 2 shows. E
by ashokzero
Here's to hoping that RDM has some amazing surprises up his sleeve for these final 3 hours. Please Ron, let this phenomenal show go out with glory.
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The frequent crack-ups since they found Earth are a sign that his delusion is falling apart around him.
The final shot will be of Olmos babbling while strapped on a gurney in Los Angeles as he is led to a lobotomy. At his side, McDonnell, actually his wife, is comforted by Sackhoff, actually his daughter, and Bamber, his son.
As the gurney rolls off, you'll see a tag on it that says "Ronald D. Moore." -
that Adama and Roslyn are actually the Adam & Eve skeletons from the first season of LOST. NAILED IT!
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I have a theory! It involves something ridiculous that only I find funny and I'm going to post it here!
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Final Five were Cylons. Final Five traveled to help recreate Cylons. Unless Cylon technology was rediscovered in Caprica the Final Five would be the total repository of that information.
Like I said the History is muddled with that slap dash explanation of who the Final Five are. -
Bored since leaving office.
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So the Final Five are so ignorant they blindly trust their creations after their creations destroyed them?
Dude you really believe that?
Cavil killed them and mind wiped them. Mind wiped the grand ultimate Final Five Cylons? Like they had ZERO backup plans? No contingency plans? No safeguards what so fucking ever.
They must be the dumbest goddamned robots ever.
Seeing as you were so obviously wrong yet attempted a slobberingly fanboy answer, there really is no need to reply to anything else in your post. Because the obviously keypoint you fanbaited ( fanboy masturbated) was sad and pathetic and not based in any type of logical reality.
That is what happens when you become so blinded by fanlove you fail to recognize horrid nonsensical plot points. -
"You know, a long time ago, two best homeboys, two kids, were thrown into juvie. They were scared, and they thought they had to do something to prove themselves. And they did what they had to do. They thought they were doing it to gain respect for their people, to show the world that no one could take their class from them. No one had to take it from us, ese. Whatever we had... we gave it away. Take care of yourself, carnal."
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They aren't anything like "the grand ultimate Final Five Cylons" like you posted, in reality they are just a group of survivors from Earth who happen to also be Cylons. They aren't anything any more special than that. They are not mighty, they are not psychic, and I think even they would agree they fucked up...big time.
Remember, they ended War 1 by agreeing to humanize the Cylons. If they had any safeguards in place it was probably against the toaster bots rather than the skinjobs, Earth was killed by toasters not skinjobs. They had every reason to not trust the toasters, but why would they not trust humano-Cylons like themselves, especially their own "children?" -
With the end of BSG, the cancellation of Pushing Daisies, the relatively looming ends to Lost and 24, the unfortunate lack of quality in what is now Heroes, and with T:SCC and Dollhouse probably doomed to be cancelled by the suits at Fox, we begin to move into a time when - around, say, the fall of 2010 (not 5 years from now as some haved hoped) - quality genre TV as we have known it since the TNG/Twin Peaks era will be drastically reduced. Major studios will have to take fewer chances with new concepts, and TV will revert back to being "it's just TV" instead of being good enough to justify a series of (Your Show Here) and Philosphy books. Then again, in a "flat e world" where networks, novelists, magazines, newspapers, etc. are all just different websites you can read with your Kindle 4 (or whatever), five years from now at least half the people who would have been spending time complaining about bad TV will be instead making their own best efforts towards net anime, cgi music videos, or whatever.
Having said my peace, Battlestar Galactica is one of the Top 10 greatest sci fi shows EVER made, and will be sorely missed. -
The Sisko emerges from the Celestial Temple and settles the Colonials on Bajor. You know that's how it'll end.
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here is a preview clip from tonight's ep. Semi spoilery
http://tinyurl.com/b6en6m
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...as the entire fleet discovers they're just another form of Cylon. Everyone's a cylon. The real REAL humans died out a LONG time ago and everyone on Kobol was just different versions of Cylons. They discover the are NOT humanity and thus humanity ends. Probably Kara blabs it too them.
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Because that's my kinda TV right there.
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Season 1 Episode 7: How did 'Shelly Godfrey' get onto Galactica, then promptly vanish without a trace?
Season 4 Episode 6: Head Six forcibly pulls Baltar off the floor and he appears to be physically lifted by an unseen force.
Just a simple projection? I want answers dammit. And what's the story with Head Baltar? Haven't seen him for a while either. -
Hey guys,
I read a fantastic article on why people should watch BSG. It's worth a read, even if you're already a fan -
http://www.examiner.com/x-4972-Seattle-TV-Examiner~y2009m3d13-What-you-should-be-watching
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I believe R. D. Moore was the one who basically suggested the bridge structure seen in the background during the Earth scenes was supposed to be the Brooklyn Bridge, and that the humans and humanoid Cylons were basically moping around in the remains of an alternate NYC (or is it the Meadowlands?). I'm not sure they're supposed to be entirely the same, just like I'm not sure the sitar was ever used in any "classic" version of "All Along The Watchtower".
Tai: again, we'll see in about a week whether or not I'm right.
By the way, the Galactica isn't so much scrapped for parts as it's basically going to be used as a decoy (punching bag) by Cavil's Cylons while everybody else sneaks into the Colony to rescue Hera. Among other things, the "Cavil lobotomizing the Raiders and Centurians" plot point also figures heavily into the ending stuff I listed above.
I agree about BSG kind of fizzling out, rather than pulling out the stops. As typical as this finale is going to be, it still could have been epic and rousing ... except they've decided to give everyone some emotional closure (which is how Zack Adama shows up in these last two episodes), so the pacing is a bit off. I tend to believe the mid-season closer should have been the ending, which, while probably too much of a bummer to leave us with, would have been a great punchline to the whole "Earth is a myth" gag Adama lays out in the original miniseries. Everybody's holding up Earth as the last hope for humanity, but surprise, we idiotically blew up ourselves before the Galactica got there.
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"So the Final Five are so ignorant they blindly trust their creations after their creations destroyed them?"--- Who says that they trusted Cavil? You simply made that assumption (seems to be a trend with you so far).
"Dude you really believe that?"--- Are you asking if I believe your ASSUMPTION is correct? No. I'm waiting for "The Plan" to see the circumstances by which Cavil gassed the Final Five, and have opted not to go around asking people if they do/do not believe in my unfounded assumptions.
But hey, you're free to do otherwise...
"Cavil killed them and mind wiped them. Mind wiped the grand ultimate Final Five Cylons?"---Sorry, but it would seem that Cavil is a Super-grand-ultimate Cylon. See what I did there? I added adjectives to make my point seem *really* relevant. Argument cuh-losed!
"Like they had ZERO backup plans? No contingency plans? No safeguards what so fucking ever."--- Gee, I guess we don't know since the show hasn't aired yet. Call up the psychic hotline and find out for yourself whether or not it's believable. Tell Dione Warwick and Madam Cleo that Tai Pan says "hi."
"They must be the dumbest goddamned robots ever."--- You must be the dumbest talkbacker in this thread.
"Seeing as you were so obviously wrong"--- Apparently so wrong you don't feel it necessary to cite what I said and make an attempt to explain why the things I said were "obviously wrong"... thanks for the vague argumentation, dingbat.
"yet attempted a slobberingly fanboy answer,"---- You mean an answer that I can give evidence and proof for? Yeah, I guess you could call that a fanboy answer.
"there really is no need to reply to anything else in your post."--- Well... there's probably not, since you haven't produced a single worthy, logical, or reasonable argument against anything I said. But hey, if you wanna stop there, by all means do and save this tb from the troll-like ramblings of a mental midget who clearly hasn't been paying close enough attention to the show.
"That is what happens when you become so blinded by fanlove"--- What? Acheiving an understanding of a simple timeline? I'd actually give credit to third-grade reading comprehension myself.... don't worry, you'll get it eventually. I 'd recommend you start by writing it down, since you seem to be a touch on the forgetful side.
"you fail to recognize horrid nonsensical plot points."--- No, I just don't call it bad/good until I ACTUALLY SEE THE SCENE... y'know? Like... when it airs MONTHS from now?
What a dumbass. -
"Season 1 Episode 7: How did 'Shelly Godfrey' get onto Galactica,"--- probably the same way the Dorals, Cavils, Boomers, and Leobens did.
"then promptly vanish without a trace?"--- May have air-locked herself.
"Season 4 Episode 6: Head Six forcibly pulls Baltar off the floor and he appears to be physically lifted by an unseen force. Just a simple projection?"--- Or an Angel. Or Baltar's body reacting to something his mind was going through (FIght Club style).
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"Tai: again, we'll see in about a week whether or not I'm right."--- You won't be right/wrong about anything.
You read some "spoilers" on the Internet and didn't contribute anything new. The spoilers might turn out to be right/wrong, but not those who reprinted it near verbatim.
Those spoilers were discussed a few days ago on the last AICN BSG talkback.
Sorry, just not into histrionics.
'By the way, the Galactica isn't so much scrapped for parts as it's basically going to be used as a decoy (punching bag) by Cavil's Cylons while everybody else sneaks into the Colony to rescue Hera. Among other things, the "Cavil lobotomizing the Raiders and Centurians" plot point also figures heavily into the ending stuff I listed above."--- You should provide sources for this stuff, because you're either: A). passing off fan-theory as Fact.... or B). Giving away huge Spoilers without any warning.
To anyone who is worried they might have just spoiled the ending, please read this article, skipping to the SECOND paragraph which discusses (and largely debunks/ deligitimizes) the rumors Armageddon just posted: http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/insights/spec/season4/419.html -
Final Five were Cylons. (True.) Final Five traveled to help recreate Cylons. (False. They traveled to stop humans from building robot slaves.) Unless Cylon technology was rediscovered in Caprica the Final Five would be the total repository of that information. (Again, false. The Centurions that the colonists called Cylons were a different technology than the type of "Cylon" that were on Earth. The final five basically recreated themselves for the Centurions. That's why the humanoid 1-8 models
read the same genetically as the final five.) -
For what it is worth, Ron Moore is on record stating that the Brooklyn Bridge visual/idea was something the F/X team came up with on their own. He says it was not in the script.
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Ohiobobcat did a fine job explaining how Glick was making assumptions/ misremembering facts.
Here's a repost of the history of the Cylon:
In response to questions about how Graystone could have made Cylons when Cylons have been around for thousands of years, here is a history of Cylons:
#1. Kobol Skinjob Cylons: created over 4,000 years ago by Kobol Humans (who were expelled from Kobol for creating them). The 13th tribe of Kobol. Later settled on Earth to create the second and third types of Cylons. All the Cylons who were expelled are dead (according to the FF).
#2. Earth Centurion Cylons: created by Skinjob Cylons living on Earth (probably NOT created by Ellen, Tigh, Tory, Anders, and Tyrol). It is unknown as to exactly WHEN they were created. All the Earth Centurion Cylons are Dead (again, info per the FF).
#3. The Final Five: Born *as* Skinjobs on Earth about 2000 years ago; Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, Anders, and Ellen. Resurrected after Earth's destruction. Traveled to Earth and helped Colonial Centurions (#5 type) create Colonial Skinjobs (#8 type Cylons- Cavil, Leoben, D'anna, Doral, Simon, Caprica Six, Daniel, Boomer/Athena). Killed by Cavil, who re-resurrected them, erased their memories and introduced them into the fleet. Of these Five, Ellen died, was re-re-resurected.
#4. Caprica Skinjob Cylons: Created by Daniel Greystone and his daughter Zoe about 50 years ago (Zoe's friend insists that the One True God gave Zoe the knowledge to create life). Created after Earth was destroyed, but before the Final Five arrived on Earth, and before the Colonial Centurions (#5). As far as we know, the only Caprican Cylon is Zoe-R, a replication of Zoe Graystone. As the series hasn't even aired yet, much less finished, there is much left to learn, and it may well be that other Caprican Cylons exist. It should be noted that Zoe's boyfriend had a digital replication of himself created (Ben-A), but as far as we know, this digital recreation was never applied to a Cylon body.
#5. Colonial Centurions: Created by Daniel Graystone (and possibly others) about 50 years ago. Not much is known about their origin. These Centurions roughly resembled Earth Centurions (#2), and presumably were the first *Cylons* to worship the One True God (though there were Capricans who worshipped a One True God. Also, Ellen says that belief in the One True God came from Centurions, but she may have been referring to Earth Centurions, or both Earth and Colonial Centurions). These models evolved into the current Centurions, Raiders, and Heavy Raiders most commonly seen in fights with Galactica, Pegasus, and their crews.
#6. THE Hybrid/The Old Hybrid: Origin and date of origin unknown. Likely created by Colonial Centurions, but may be another Daniel Graystone creation. Might be the One True God. Might be Daniel Graystone.
#7. Ship Hybrids: Created by Colonial Centurions after the creation of the Old Hybrid, but before Colonial Skinjobs (#8). Function as the brain of the ships. These cylons speak in jibberish that often proves prophetic.
#8. Colonial Skinjobs: Created about forty years ago by the Final Five for the Colonial Centurions. Cavil, Leoben, D'anna, Doral, Simon, Caprica Six, Daniel, and Boomer/Athena. Colonial Centurions as well as Cavil helped create Colonial Skinjobs, though what degree of influence they had in helping the Final Five in creating this type is uncertain. Of the Colonial Skinjobs, the "Daniel" model is presumably dead and destroyed (though this model might actually be a cylon version of Daniel Graystone, or possibly Starbuck, or Starbuck's father, or Zak Adama).
#9. Human/Colonial Skinjob Hybrid- Hera. Born of Helo (human) and Athena (Colonial Skinjob).
#10. Final Five/Colonial Skinjob Hybrid- Tigh and Caprica Six's unborn child. Died in the womb. Different from type #1 Cylons only because it is the only known example of a cross-breeding of Earth/Kobol Cylons and Colonial Cylons. -
Just kidding.
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Anyone?
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Geeks everywhere are confused and head tilted.
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Dirty ole man...
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It is just he had an awful father so it fucked him up
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Hit him with your cane!
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was either horribly written or horribly acted by that cop lady.
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what is ff?
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Dayum.
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Am I watching the right show?
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I didn't lose my whole family though; I was just tripping.
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...more than deep. Cracking me up, in a bad way.
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figured it out
thought he was refering to some kind of online faq -
Flight suits and things! Geeks start to breathe easier.
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if a bunch of people we never heard of died before the pilot episode? Why introduce this at the end?
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was handled very poor and awkward; and i got a slight chuckle when she went into that fountain. a big wtf moment in a bad way.
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...have gotten high off their own flatulence.
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Baltar's dad doesn't resemble Kara's dad... didn't Kara's father die many years before the scenes we are seeing now?
I guess it COULD be possible that Baltar was raised by foster parents, but it isn't looking good for those rumors posted on IMDb.
Excellent episode thus far. -
Why go for the kill when you can go for the pain.
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have you people actually watched this show? My God, this is not a show about Cylons v Humans. It is so much more than that! At this point, I guess it is silly to explain it..again
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And their flatulence was good, real good. Apparently
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I hope Moore does.
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is it just me or is this Baltar inconsistent with the one from the miniseries. More like the current Baltar than that one.
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Was that a note? I thought that was Leoben whispering it into Roslins ear before she airlocked him.
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Good one, Tai Pan. That kool-aid must taste good...
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in a Viper!
In the promo, he was giving the thumb's up for launch... pretty cool (again, doesn't jive with the recent spoilers). -
I'm actually enjoying it afer the last few debacles, er ... eps. And I'd like to stick my Viper in Blondie's basestar anytime!
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You do have a very good point. But, this is set sometime before the attack. Perhaps Baltar will grow into what we saw?
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Hey asshole, how about you don't take my quote out of context.
I said it's an excellent episode thus far (a third of the way in). -
Baltar said to his father "I need this like I need a fucking hole in my head." Is this the first time Fuck was used instead of Frak on the show? Slipup or is there meaning there?
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I totally thought i heard that too!! figured i was hearing things.
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Me too.
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I keep waiting for anything exciting to happen but now it feels like these last 3 hours will be about what the whole run of the show has been about, the characters and the choices they've made and where they are now in the present. Which is fine if y'all like that sort of thing.
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...it's the only logical explanation.
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Can't believe he said F#@*! Now get off my lawn ya frakkin kids!
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Is still a Fatty
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Idiots
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When did BSG become LOST? For a moment I was sure they were airing ALL GOOD THINGS.......
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Lee Adama breaks everything in his house while bravely fighting off a pidgeon.
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When?
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Mar 13, 2009 9:45:50 PM CDT
If it wasnt for the fact there are only 2 eps life, this season
by ashokzero
Imo this has been a fantastic season... honetsly I think the writing the season has only been surpassed by Lost. The only problem is... there are only 2 episodes left. And it seems like the writers have left too much to do, but Im still hoping Daybreak 2+3 will blow us all away.
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Which considering he actually is kinda makes sense.
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...self-importance, pretentiousness, portentousness, off-the-mark crap hasn't been seen since The Reader hit theaters last year.
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about what has so far been a character episode.
I hate science fiction shows. Firefly, Star Trek, Stargate, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate Special Victims Unit, Farscape... I'm glad BSG focuses on character. -
Listen to that Diction!!
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Well I don't think the complaints are that the ep is character centric. This episode is very good imo. BUT, for a show with only 2 episodes left, Daybreak Pt. 1 lacks the momentum that you would expect from a show making its final run.
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The first scene of this episode. Woulda, shoulda, coulda....
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SciFi are hoping next weeks finale gets the highest ratings ever for the channel.I hope as a big fuck you to the show people forget to tune in these past episodes have been fucking laughable.
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to be having character episodes. We should be at the point where we know these people backwards and forwards and are aiming toward resolving whatever overarching plot there was in the show.
None of this is occurring. -
DANGIT I love this show... but seriously they could have started with the recon scene.
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Hell with Roslin on side how can they go wrong, I know shes dying and shit but watching her hobble over made me lol.
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...but one of the writers finally thought through the tactics involved when your fleet can teleport and designed a defense that makes sense given that ability.
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Not exactly a dead goldfish - but this is the kind of thing they should have done 3 weeks ago. I doesnt feel IN ANY WAY like a series finale.
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Please... all TV writers. Model last season on Shield Season 7.
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it feels too chopped up. I wish I had waited to see it when they run all three parts next week.
Looks like there will be 'splosions for those who can't get an erection without one. -
and will immediately challenge adama to a stick fight.
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Why the fuck did this boring ass episode happen? Tread water much, Ron?
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The last two hours better be full of action AND explanation. I just watched the first hour and it was like the Sopranos blackout ending but at the frakkin start of the end. zzzzz
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but everything should be in place for the finale.
Hated the flashbacks.The story didn't need baltars weird old dad, roslins dead family.
It was just a way to smear more misery around -
I swear most of you have missed the point of the show. This wasn't boring. The whole series is based on characters, not story. Its about people, not battles.
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The finale may have made the actors and Ron Moore cry, but so far it's just making me sleepy.
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Wow, I love BSG. But. Wow.
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Will the fleet go and fight the Cylon colony, only to get sucked into that black hole and they all wind up (ressurected in a way I guess) back at the start again? Bending not only space but time too by being near a singularity is a tired sci-fi cliche (I'm looking at you SG1).
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this whole (up to now) 4.5 season has just been anticlimatic filler and tease. Expect more flashbacks next week with a sprinkle of why people stayed with this series. Maybe we just had high hopes or something for these last half of episodes.
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wept durring the filming of the finale.
WEPT I SAY! WEPT! -
In my day, back on the farm, all we HAD was misery ... and we LIKED it!
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Nooo. The show is about character and action and plot twists that leave you hungry to see what happens next. After 4 years we know the characters like family and really, the backstory in this episode felt either tacked on as an excuse to justify some out of character behavior in the final episode, or as a way to drag out the series because they're running out of plot. Problem with that is there are lots of loose ends to tie up.
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Exactly wrong. If not for the arresting story of the miniseries (human race being systematically wiped out, minuscule amount of survivors), then I could care less about 3/4 of the characters that had speaking lines tonight. The miniseries so outperforms what we have been subjected to this season that is has become an embarassment.
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The last season of The Shield was goddamn all kinds of awsome.The shitty past BSG episodes we have been given are just the scraps of what Moore/Eick and team could offer whilst busy with other projects. Listen to RDM's podcast and he as much as admits it.
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wait...i was watching battlestar wasnt i.....lol
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I wish he was a show regular. It would have been epic.
Also I loled at Laura Roslin's reaction to her family's death. GREAT show though. Best this season IMO. Don't see all the hate for it. The series finale is going to kick our ass. -
Like Lost... and that old song. And Lee is the drunk who killed Roslin's sisters and father, and Adama hushed it up for Lee (hence the lawyer/guy's request for an hour of Adama's time).
Turns out the Island isn't hell. BSG is. -
i dont understand the motivation for Adama going on this mission.....why even make it about the kid, it should be about kicking some ass for the last time....
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Great show. Fuck LOST you morons. That show should be getting the hate. BSG gets too much, but at least it didn't cop out with the time traveling.
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I mean talk about saving everything for the last minute! I hate dumping on this show, and the truth is I've liked just about every single episode, but I just can't fraking help but wish we had a little more excitement in the middle of this final season. Tonight was excellent and it's no surprise because they are great at building anticipation. I really hope next week is one of the greatest finales ever.
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Think about it....we keep hearing that what is happening now has happened before...and before that...and before that...It could be that the flashbacks we just saw were from another time altogether.
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Fact is...this is why I watch BSG. We're saying goodbye to these characters FOREVER. There won't be a sequel series (he said.)
The Plan will be more about Cavil's plan for the Final Five, and his revenge. While some BSG'ers will be in it...it's the end of their narrative...so a little back story isn't terrible.
There's a lot to talk about next week...what is Starbuck, what are the head six,baltar,kara daddy, who is the dying leader, etc...but in 1 hour this year he gave us the entire Cylon story...I have no doubt he'll pack a ton in.
Just my two cents. -
Just skip the finale then you fuckers. It's so much better than Lost. I don't know what's wrong with this site. First the majority of the community calls Watchmen (movie) a masterpiece. And now this shit. Fuck off.
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Seeing Roslin walk across the line did anything but make me laugh. Have we been watching the same show? Or is it that we're seeing the same episodes...but you only focus on bright shiny things that go "boom".
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After the flashbacks, it was as if the cast, and the writer's started doing Valium (which is my name for Medium).
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Can you believe my head is still reeling over "Possible Kill Screen"? Yeah, the final season of that show was just all kinds of awesome. "Daybreak 2+3" better surpass "Family Meeting" or I'll be so pissed off.
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You must have missed the two part mutiny that ended with the double execution. Just a few weeks ago...
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BSG better than LOST? I love BSG, and I did like this episode... I'm not hating on any shows here. But I honestly liked "LaFluer" better than "Daybreak 1".
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It's cooler if you enjoy BOTH shows.
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Too many comparisons are made. Who cares? We've got two episodes left of this excellent series...
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hillarious, "Captain Tragedy".
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Like Quantum Leap, where there's a bit of an explanation but it's not the answers you wanted to hear and not the ending you wanted to have happen and that nobody ever "leaps home".
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"Thats the THIRD nurse the year, dad!" "Stupid frakin bird GET OUT!" "Frack me, hes early!" "I'll calling the police!" "I'll sue you for abandonment!" "As you were!" "Well lets get to work!" "No, YOU ask him!" "Thank you, you can let yourselves out!" "Stop! Dont drink anymore!" "Tell me! I'll even believe it!"
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Is Lee just pissed and jealous of his brother so he gets drunk? Is that all there was to that?
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Comparing this episode to Lost is a bit ridiculous...the Flashbacks on tonights episode were revelatory...and probably will reveal more as the show ends next week.
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So Adama decides to leave the entire fleet behind without a leader and with nowhere to go in order to go on a suicide mission to rescue a kidnapped child?
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that really didn't change anything except for killing off two characters who were barely used this season?
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all these years? but does it not bug you how EVERYTHING on Caprica is EXACTLY like earth? theer had better be a good final explanation other than trying to stay within the bounds of a low budget...but cmon, sushi, telephones, ties, limosines..etc etc...i mean this supposed to be another planet right?? is Caprica Earth?? if it isnt and this stuff is not properly explained, i will be pissed...but heres another point as well...if they are a more technoligally advanced planet than present day earth, why is the stuff they use so modern day looking??? if i have missed something please tell me
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Revealed what?
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Actually The Oath is one of my favorite episodes of BSG in a long time... I thought the whole mutiny was very relevant to the desperation and loss of hope of the survivors.
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And film companies from all over the twelve colonies come to film their colonial tv shows and movies there because Vancaprica is cheap and has tax incentives for filming there.
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Humans and Gods lived on Kobol, but the humans split. Some went to Earth, some went to create the colonies.
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Baltar said "fuck". LOL. It's could very well be a clue, or a misstep. We'll see. Roslin's sisters and dad get killed by a drunk. Who was the drunk? Defrost, do you think the flashbacks were shown just for "texture"? They also revealed change. I think adding them in was a good call, the beginning of a final coda for the series end.
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Mar 13, 2009 10:31:53 PM CDT
WIndom Earl Should have Annie on the way to the Black Lodge by n
by wcme
Thats how you set up a Season\Series Finale! Or, shouldn't Adama have just passed the week long "Degree Absolute" test and be on his wa to meet Number one?!? Isn't this the way you end a series?!?
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nor can I see why it matters.
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Oh man the end of Twin Peaks was so amazing!!! :D
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What is wrong with you people?
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Because Hera wrote down the notes to some song that lead the fleet to Earth. But wasn't Earth a big fat dead end? Maybe Gaeta was right.
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Mar 13, 2009 10:35:17 PM CDT
'Humans and Gods lived on Kobol, but the humans split. Some went
by robamenta
but that spit happened LONG ago right?? so why would these two civilizations evolve in the same way? i mean right down to the tiny details? that makes NO sense
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I found it interesting that Lee Adama comes home drunk chasing a bird out of his house...strange sequence of events. It could mean absolutely nothing. Or it could mean something else. BSG has been great at playing "mind trips" on its viewers. Remember the one year jump to New Caprica...the final 4 reveal...we could be in for another revelation of some kind. In ADDITION to some kick ass bad-assery next week.
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The cops said the drunk was in stable condition meaning he was in the hospital after the crash not stumbling home drunk.
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I've seen that old coot before but can't remember where
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Its true. I though you all imagined it, and even though the words before and after it are all FRACKing, and the close captioning clearly says FRACKing, he really does say FUCKing. WILD!
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I think these flashbacks will reveal more than just change in the main characters...but I could be wrong.
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There was some incredible character work tonight and now all the pieces are in place for the final two hours of the show. I can't fucking wait 'til next Friday. I'd love to hang around to see the philistines bitch about the episode, but I think I'll watch the episode again instead.
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Here's to hopeful wishing.
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There have been several accidental "fucks" over the course of the series. Don't read too much into it.
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I mean, if its good enough for Bale.....
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He cried Adama tears of molten lava
Oh, and I think it was Antony Holland who played Baltars father -
is anyone really going to interrupt their parties & vacations to watch tv? Bad move SciFi.
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was lee the drunk who killed roslyn's family?
no!
who's our favorite drunk on the show?
tigh! -
...so I guess it's OK.
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Maybe: "frak" is Caprican slang while "fuck" is Aerilon slang. Under stress Baltar reverts to Aerilon.
Or it could just be a frak-up. -
The time, some seasons ago, when Tigh said "Christ!" That would really screw up the theology.
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if you hate this show, just stop watching it. The people who hate on it simply don't realize its not a show for them. They hate because its not what they want it to be. So many people on this site with a completely false sense of entitlement. I've heard every reason people hate the show, and it all boils down to the fact that it isn't for them. People hate because they want it to be this, do that... all the fans who still support the show agree on one thing--it has and always will have been a show about the characters. People try to say how all of the directions these characters have gone in don't make sense. No one stays the same, espeically under the circumstances that the characters are dealing with. I am a little nervous about the end, but i've enjoyed every single episode, and alot of other people have too. An ending that will blow us all away will put this show up there with the best... a medicre ending won't take away how special this show has been. There is only one thing in my mind that would be so terrible that it will have forever damned the show into obscurity, and that would be if someone wakes up on earth and it was all a dream. Other than that, its been a great ride and i am grateful for the opportunity to watch a fantastic show. If you hate this whole season, the show isn't for you. quit your bitching and move on.
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"What the frak is it with you?!?! What don't you frakkin' understand?!?! You got any frakkin' idea about -- hey, it's frakkin' distracting?!?!"
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EVER. And that includes the original series. All you pretentious jackasses droning on and on about character and blah blah blah...are a joke. My expectations for the last episode could not be lower. (I reserve the right to retract the previous comments if next week's show causes this week's show to make any fucking sense...at all).
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"There is only one thing in my mind that would be so terrible that it will have forever damned the show into obscurity" --
I can think of something else:
"Mesa welcomin you to yousa new home planet! Mesa bein God, okeyday?" -
it was just a shitty 1st part to hopefully a fantastic last 2 parts. TV series have bad episodes, it happens. I love this show i really do. but i get it Baltar's a dick, Adama hates pidgeons, and Roslin loves sushi and fountains. We did not need the flashbacks. Although i'm gonna predict right now that Baltar makes a grand self sacrifice, for the first time in his life, convincing Adama to give Baltar's people a say in the government.
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the problem with bsg is it makes you ask some serious questions which should have mind blowing answers. When that happens, on a site like this, people throw out so many answers that they've cooked up, and insist how such and such an answer could have been much better because of this and that. Never mind the fact that once you do reveal an answer, the show must go on. Most of the 'better' ideas people think they have may have been more interesting, but they don't bother to say what direction the show would go in, had their prediction been correct. What i'm getting at is that, what may seem to be a more interesting answer at that moment for that question doesn't take into account where the show would go from there. Its not just about answering questions, its about telling a story over an extended period of time... anyone can second guess something and say it could have been cooler their way, but those same people don't say what trajectory the show would go in as a result of their 'better' answers. That's the tough part of telling a story on tv. Bottom line, though, is that there was lots of action early in the show, and because of that, it brought in viewers for the wrong reasons. Now that the action has been largely subdued, those people aren't liking the show... but they never really liked THE SHOW, they liked the SPECTACLE.
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Oh please.... worst episode of Galactica ever? Sheesh, I would say it was a tad average by BSG standards, but I found it enjoyable and lightyears better than 90% of the drek on TV. Seriously, with the exception of possible half a dozen shows (Lost/Dexter/Breaking Bad/FNL/Shield/Damages) --- I honestly can't think of any other current shows with writing that is even of "Daybreak" caliber.
I'll admit, it seems Ron D. Moore has left alot of ground to cover with only 2 hours remaining, but the show has been an amazing ride, and I dread watching the Galactica being laid to rest in 7 days. -
Prophecy says "they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel." Kara was previously identified/associated with the winged goddess Aurora. So this might mean that Kara will lead them to the better Earth. anyway, if the bird stands for Kara, then it might symbolize Lee's being unable to get his brother's girlfriend out of his mind.
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Or maybe it's just there to shit on someone?
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obviously we haven't seen it yet, but he's drunk because Zack just died.
All in all I thought the episode was ok, but I was a little disappointed at how weak the justification is to go after Hera. -
And that scene with Roslin in the fountain was the most pretentious "douchebag garbage" I have ever seen in well, anything. These "character" episodes have been very poorly done. Just saying. I think they do best when they mix character AND action. Let's face it, I do watch it for the spectacle AND the characters, not pretentious like-the-smell-of-your-own-fart trash they are giving us now.
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Anyone notice the way he delivered the line about stripping the battlestar at the beginning? He forgot his american accent for a second there.
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the bird flew into the shot, they gave Bamber a broom to get it off set. Director said "Fuck it, we're rolling anyway, just start breaking shit and we'll find a place for this."
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Mar 13, 2009 11:25:30 PM CDT
TERMINATOR: TSCC was actually better than BSG tonight...AGAIN.
by spyguy
Ron Moore is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory! All this buildup and two episodes before the finale all we get is Roslin sitting in the middle of a fountain and "Everybody who's up for the suicide mission, step on THIS side of the line"?
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My first thought is that she actually went back to the house and killed him, and made up the stuff about the retirement home.
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Lost seems to be answering questions somewhat slowly... The last few episodes of BSG seem to have answered every freaking question on the show.They answered the entire final 5 thing that has been building up for awhile in 3 minutes with Anders just telling people.
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Daniel is God. Yes, the final five created the body of number seven, Daniel, but in the vein of the Christ story, the spirit of God inhabited number seven. After all he was the creative one, an artist, gentle, etc (see Jesus). Cavil (maybe Devil) was jealous and consumed with hatred towards his creators and thought he could do better (see Lucifer). So, he destroyed their most precious son, Daniel (see Jesus). Thank you, Frank Black!
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This year, kinda crap
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I'm halfway through watching it a second time, and it still sucks.
I still love the series overall, but this is beginning to feel like the ending was dictated by Sciffy accountants more than anything else. -
Mar 13, 2009 11:46:06 PM CDT
SERIOUSLY What Backstory? What Character Revelations Are You Guy
by rallas_ironfist
Question for all you "DUDE ITS ABOUT THE CHARACTERS, NOT SPACE SHIPS! The episode was about giving us deeper Back story and understanding of the characters." I guess I'm not as enlightened as you folks. So would you mind explaining to me what sorts of revelations or meaningful character development were learned from those flashbacks? We already knew about Baltar's past. Nothing amazing on the Lee and starbuck front, except we got to witness there first meet and greet. Not even sure why they even bothered with the Sam scene. The only sort of character revelations we got was from Roslin and lets face that was some piss poor writing there. You can't expect to spend 3 mins introducing us to characters we've never seen or heard of before and expect us to actually give a damn about them when proceed to kill them off via a telephone call in the very next scene. Nothing new, nothing learned. The only thing these flasbacks did was possibly remind us of who these characters were and how far they've come since the start of the series and even thats a bit of a stretch. So What say you?
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I guess it's because we know its the end and I have been starving for compelling episodes like we used to have in S1&2. I can't pinpoint when it happened, but there was this feeling that *anything* could happen on BSG and that every step was into some new wondrous thing, and then all of a sudden, the path narrowed... and now we're just dragging along. Don't get me wrong, there have been some great episodes, but it just isn't the same show anymore. For me the reveal of the final 5 has been the most difficult thing... it was almost a shark jumping moment for me, though I admit they've handled it well. I really wish they had played this out over another whole season with lots of cool space battles in between. All my friends are in consensus that we haven't had nearly enough vipers this season.
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"proceed to kill them off via a telephone call in the very next scene" -- Um, what telephone call would that be?
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that this season of BSG has been subpar. Kind of disappointing to have to wade through these last episodes. Even at that this show still completely blows anything that has ever been put on TV. Including man landing on the moon and Janet jackson's tit on live TV during the super bowl. And Baltar said fuck.
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Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I've seen every episode of TSCC and minus the one episode where Summer Glau kills the contortionist female Terminator with the stiletto of its own boot, the show has nothing on BSG S4.5
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I mean blows anything AWAY. My ex-wife will blow anything. I'll hook you up.
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Gods know I'm one to appreciate subtlety and character and pacing. If I wanted colorful shit in my face every 2.5 seconds, I'd go see WATCHMEN for a second time this weekend. But. That. Was. Painfully. Slow. Not only that, but it really didn't stoke my anticipation for the finale. Gee, will Baltar move to starboard? Will the fate of the universe be shown to rest in the hands of one little cylo-girl? Will Mary Mc ever learn a third facial expression? Yawning.
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RDM's channeling LOST. Here he goes again with all the character building episodes with almost no episodes left. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, are we there yet?
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I do have to hand it to the writers. Baltar is the best character on the show. People love him, hate him or even don't know what the hell to think every single episode.I did think that the subtlety of Baltar swaying slightly forward and the look on his face was great... where he keeps thinking, maybe I should do something noble, but that self preservation element comes back and he is a chicken shit. I also though his genuine surprise of the Caprica Six going over to the other side as a very nice touch. It's just another reminder to him that he doesn't understand.
I've always felt that Baltar is the true symbol for humanity on the show. -
Someone really, really wrote that. On the internet. Not in their own diary with doodles of the Jonas Brothers logo on the cover. Publically displayed. Traceable. "i am grateful for the opportunity to watch a fantastic show" That pounding on your door right now, wixmmm - that's the FBI. They've come to inform your parents they raised an incredible pussy.
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Most of you could not appreciate good storytelling, filmmaking or acting if it bit you on the ass. The whole point was to show how far the characters' lives have come since Caprica. It's not 'Lost' style flashbacks - although the pigeon is clearly symbolic. But Roslin's appearance on the deck after she climbed out of her hospital bed was devastating. She looked amazingly sick and old. Mary McDonnell is amazing. Hands down. This show is never going to be what most of you want. So just go ahead and skip the last two hours so we don't have to hear the bitching. Go ahead. I dare you.
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"So would you mind explaining to me what sorts of revelations or meaningful character development were learned from those flashbacks? We already knew about Baltar's past."
This last episode focused on character in a way that only a few episodes in this series has bothered with.
Examples that come to mind are "You Can't Go Home Again" "Downloaded" "Scattered" "Black Market" and "A Day In the Life." Obviously some of those episodes weren't great (I still maintain that ADItL is the single worst ep of BSG) but they were far more intimate than most of the plot driven episodes of BSG.
I think it comes closer to an episode of LOST back when that show focused on flashbacks for character development (though LOST had the luxury of focusing on one or two characters, where this episode is trying to juggle many characters at once).
Ironfist asked what any of the episode had to do with character development. Let's start from the beginning:
As of this episode, there's no telling what was happening with Bill Adama. In current time, we see Adama accepts Kara despite not knowing what or who she is (a big reversal from what we have seen in the past. Now it's more natural, given all the revelations he has had to accept about the Cylons). We also see that he is willing to trust in the mysticism he has never understood by accepting Sam's word on the Colony and Hera.
Baltar and Caprica Six: Before this episode, all we know of Baltar's family was that they were simple folk. Baltar said in "Dirty Hands" that people such as his family loved getting a drink at the pub and so forth. This episode indicates that Baltar resented his father, but LOVED HIM enough to take care of him... but in doing so, he took the man away from his agricultural life and destroyed his harmony. Instead of realizing this, Baltar resents his father even more for complaining... Baltar feels that his father is ungrateful for the things Baltar has provided for him (and perhaps feels the old man resents or doesn't appreciate his success). To Baltar, his father is a problem to throw money at. It seems as if Baltar is offended or afraid of his father for mentioning that Baltar came from somewhat humble beginings. Next, we learn that Caprica Six WASN'T just a seductive killer before the attack. We knew from "Downloaded" and "The Son Also Rises" that Caprica Six started to change when she fell in love with Baltar... now we know that her compassion wasn't limited to Baltar. EVen if it was all just a way to please Baltar, Six was able to see what was making Baltar's father so upset and then Six took action to correcct it. I think these scenes speak volumes for both characters.
In this episode we learn that Roslin lost her family (all her family?) to a drunk driver. I don't know how this affcted her as a character or whether that story has said all it will say, but I know my heart went out to her. Having had several friends killed by a drunk driver, I felt for her. It made me feel even more pity for this woman, who has dealt with constant death, disappointment, cancer, and political pressure throughout the entire show. I thought back to Billy Keikeya's death from season 2 when I heard Roslin lost her two sisters and father in that car wreck. I remember Roslin saying that Billy was family to her. Back in the past... who is Sean Ellison, Roslin's blind date? Why did she freak out when she remembered who he was? Is he the guy who killed her family?
Helo and Tyrol: Here we learn that Tyrol is back where he started when he first learned Boomer was a machine. He tries to convince himself that all 8s are the same. Helo, we learn, is SYMPATHETIC to the guy that cost him his daughter, saying he understands why he did it. But after talking to Tyrol, his confidence in that may have been shaken.
Athena on the other hand seems to have lost all hope. She doesn't seem interested at all in avoiding strain on her relationship with Helo. She's just a broken woman and looked pretty close to crazy, IMO.
Cavil, Boomer, the Dorals and Simons: Here we learn that Hera was stolen not to blackmail the FF, but for her genes. Like the Rebel Cylons, they want to know how to reproduce and see Hera as the key. Meanwhile, Boomer seems to be having second thoughts.
In this episode, we get to see Lee's introduction to Kara. We FINALLY get to see interaction between Lee and Zak (always wanted to see that since the miniseries... Lee was so pissed off at Adama in the miniseries, it always made me wonder what kind of relationship those two had). We also see that Lee still has some feelings for Kara (not gonna go into whether they are friendly/fraternal/romantic feelings becausse that debate is endless) that are clouding his judgements as a leader. At least that's what Baltar has concluded. Lee and Baltar both come to express doubts over whether Baltar could ever be trusted. Lee points out that Baltar can't even point to a single act of sacrifice that didn't somehow benefit Baltar personally. As to what happened with Drunk Lee and the bird, I have no idea. Looks like that will be explained next episode. I'm sure there's some relevance, as the bird was one of the first images in this ep. And Lee is back in a flightsuit (good).
Anders: EVERYTHING on Anders was new ground. I've never heard the guy say anything so deep. Never heard him discuss his motivations. I would say that he was out of character, but that was when he was still a basketball (pyramid) player before the attack, so it doesnt bother me that much. Actually, I wish he were that lucid throughout the entire series. I never pegged him as a perfectionist, but his words were clearly an indication that his previous life was reaching out to him (he even goes into science and physics in his explanation about what drives him).
So maybe this episode didn't have any character development to some of you, but I thought the whole thing was pretty damn interesting. My complaint is that this episode badly needs the explanation of the other 2 episodes. I wish I had waited to see all 3 eps in a row next week like they suggested.
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Is that really the demographic they think it'll appeal to? Fans of character-driven, actionless science fiction drama? After seeing the Oscars, every time I see Jackman jumping out of his tank, all muscley, with his jazz hands spread wide, I hope he'll break into his best nathan Lane impersonation. "Gotta sing. Gotta dance. Gotta get a tow-ell-ell."
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... Baltar has always been my favorite character. He's selfish, he's a coward. He often *wants* to do the right thing, but can't overcome his vices to find his virtues. I think what I want more than anything else from BSG is the for the story arc to conclude with his redemption. Anyway, while a little slow, I really enjoyed this episode. I actually liked the flashbacks, and seeing some of these characters again for the first time.
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Yeah. Clearly. Funny you didn't think I knew that. It was so clear. Yeah. Pigeons. No, that's doves. Wait. I've got it. Pigeons. Garbage. Pigeons are symbolic of garbage. Clearly. What's the broom a symbol for?
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I think you've solved it.
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A jock with a boner for mathematics. That was profound. Sports as a metaphor for life. Wonder why nobody's ever come up with that before?
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Not one answer.
A great episode, nonetheless. But c'mon, one answer, just ... a look at Daniel, a flashback to one of the Head Folks approaching one of The Five on Earth. Something.
"Finally The Truth" - that's what the promo just showed.
OK. Bring it.
If they all get sucked into the Black Hole and transported to a parallel universe where it all starts again ... no, no way. Has to be better than that.
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what show is this? everyone is suddenly having lost flashbacks? lol. i just got a idea- ask anders how we should end the show.
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Mar 14, 2009 1:07:01 AM CDT
Hmmm... maybe this will turn into blade runner afterall
by murdermostfowl
We have rain, we have a random bird flying, we have artificial people who want to meet their maker and are afraid to die, we have surprise characters who turn out to be not who they think they are, and we have Eddie Olmos who is kicking ass and taking names.
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Ive never seen something derail quite like this show has managed.
Its setting up NEW backstory elements in the series finale. This is pathetic. It reeks that they had no idea/commitment as to how to wrap up all the obvious glaring contradictions and inane character decisions. Its 'lets stall, and give them a big battle in the final episode'. All the conflict is a result of characters not speaking to one another. Its petty. Who cares about these idiots? This isnt dramatic, its sappy stupid people acting like high schoolers. Really if you think this is great writing, go rent Babylon 5 Seasons 1-4, set aside the dated effects, and watch a true masterpiece of storytelling (which has a defined beggining, middle, and end) establish interesting questions that unfold in a compelling competent planned manner. Sorry BSG is just a weak story. Blown potential. Ive never seen such horrible overuse of deus ex machina on a regular basis and have it passed off as a mystery that will be revealed (and then isnt- its just a crappy writing fallback!). -
And I would drop you like a stripper girlfriend with a pube in her teeth. BEFORE you could come up with some insufferable wussy snarkism. Get over yourself, internet tough guy.
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This so-called Cylon colony is a planet, correct? (I don't remember what the details are, or if the show has indicated what this colony is.) I'm assuming it's a planet. Could this planet become our Earth in the future?
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Last week's episode was good even though it didn't explain anything. Tonight's episode was good. I thought I was going to come on here and read everybody's comments about how it was a good episode, but all people are doing is complaining. From the last few episodes, I think I have a very good idea of how the series is going to end and I think they can do it in 2 hours easily. All they really have left to explain is what Starbuck is and what the in-heads are. I have faith that they're going to explain it, they probably just don't want to give *everything* away before the final episode. Then all they have to do is have a big last battle with Cavil, then they'll probably either settle on a new planet which will become our Earth, or get sucked into the black hole and go back in time to the beginning. (I would prefer the former.) I think tonight's episode played out EXACTLY like a series finale. The flashbacks weren't meant to give us new info about the characters, I felt like they were there to bring everything full circle. This is the end where everyone is miserable, now let's see the beginning. Before Roslin's cancer. Before Baltar became a traitor. It was supposed to be humorous. I think it's making the end more emotional. I think the people who are complaining don't really understand the show. The ending is all about coming to terms with Earth being a bust, the Galactica "dying", and the line between human and cylon becoming blurred. Humans and cylons have to learn to live together. I think there were some clunker episodes (the one where Ellen returned to the Galactica), but overall I think they're doing a great job. I think the buildup is great and the drama is really good.
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Yeah, I giggled too. As if gotik would ever have a girlfriend! As if the pubes in her teeth would be any more disgusting than the pubes in his own!
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I guess I was too busy watching Summer Glau walk by in her undies.
Actually I do appreciate good storytelling, filmifying and/or acting.
I just haven't seen much of that lately with this crew. -
"A jock with a boner for mathematics. That was profound."--- Hey, dumbass: I never said he was profound. Throughout the series, he has been anything BUT profound. IMO, most of the time he has been whiny. He started out somewhat interesting as a Caprican resistance leader, but that never went anywhere. On New Caprica he was pretty much wallpaper. Most of his scenes in BSG were whining over or being sensitive towards Kara... yawn. So yeah, the guy is DEEP compared to what we have seen of him thus far.
"Sports as a metaphor for life. Wonder why nobody's ever come up with that before?"--- Funny... I didn't even take it that way. Never even considered his comments as a metaphor for life. Rewatching that scene, I don't think it was meant that way, and really have no clue what the hell you're talking about.
I thought his comments were interesting because Anders is actually a brilliant scientist whose memory has been erased. Now he's living the life of a jock. In essence, his life in the Colonies apparently didn't afford his mind the scientific outlet he had on Earth. But somewhere in him, that drive towards science and perfection was still there. He just applied it towards sports. Apparently, that wasn't going to satisfy him; presumably because his real passion was for the work he was carrying out on Earth. -
What a watered down piece of shit way to end this otherwise brilliant series. Of course I've no way to prove it, but these final eps have been leached of all gravitas in order to further your other piece of shit BSG projects.
Fuck you, dude. Seriously. You're as big a one-trick pony as Chris Carter... -
Mar 14, 2009 1:33:48 AM CDT
Who the fuck actually watches this cylon human clone show?
by orionsangels
Stupidest idea ever!
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John Cavil was the drunk driving that car that wiped out the Roslins?
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And my gods, the awful mediocre Telepath arc and Byron... yeah, Shadow War was pretty good, and the S5 finale was cool, but it's hardly some BSG killing masterpiece.
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Interesting thought... but I have to wonder what that revelation could possibly mean. I can't think of any significance in making it Cavil.
To the contrary, I'm guessing Roslin is the type to face the guy who killed her family, and would have remembered Cavil's face when she saw him after the destruction of the colonies. Hard to forget a face like that, I'd imagine.
Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention: all you haters can suck it. -
Am I wrong?
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Mar 14, 2009 1:43:54 AM CDT
"Character Episode" apologists. Give it a rest. This BLEW!
by happyhamster
The guy from last week's TB who predicted the finale was suck...is right on the money. Prepare for a monumental letdown in which you will be forced you to watch Ronald Moore's other crap-assed related BSG spinoffs for "answers".
Wow, holy god did this thing go down the shitter and FAST. Ronald D. Moore is breathtakingly artistically bankrupt. -
Mar 14, 2009 1:46:02 AM CDT
Hercules - so what if it was? It'd be a worthless "twist"...
by happyhamster
There is NO amount of spin that would make that interesting.
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I mean a lot of people are bashing it, but I'd say it was just so so. There's no way they could rap this up into a satisfying conclusion in a 2 hour show with commercial breaks. Sigh :(
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. . . they're all set up to be where they are. Directed, orchestrated, placed, maneuvered. LOST-esque. All had Cylons somewhere in their lives, planted and waiting. You'll see it ain't just Baltar. And, whether or not they're genuine Cylons like Caprica 6, 2000 year old Cylons like Tigh or whatever the frak Starbuck is it has all been planned.
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That wouldn't be so bad if they had a couple of seasons left instead of shoveling backstory into the series finale.
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Shaky camera shots of Cavil in a wife-beater, brandishing a whiskey bottle as Helo tries to talk him into custody.
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Mar 14, 2009 1:54:48 AM CDT
Lashlarue - the reason it's bashed is because it's the end of th
by happyhamster
There is NO FUCKING WAY these shitty episodes should be airing. Yes,it'd be an OK (not great) mid-season TWO episode. But because of it's location in the series timeline, it is downgraded from OK to suckage
And the reason things won't be wrapped up (as you mentioned) is because Ron Moore needs to give you a "reason" to watch his other dumb BSG-related spinoffs that no one gives a shit about. -
Happy Hamster, you've only seen a third of the finale, so you're full of shit when you say the finale sucks.
All you bitching about how this shows is dead because the show is "slow" seemed to have forgotten something;
SEASON 1: 3rd-to-last episode was "Colonial Day." ...Gee, that was a lightening fast, high paced, action filled episode with NO character development whatsoever, RIGHT?
SEASON 2: 3rd-to-last episode was 'Downloaded" ...Gee, that was a lightening fast, high paced, action filled episode with NO character development whatsoever, RIGHT?
SEASON 3: 3rd-to-last episode was "The Son Also Rises" ...Gee, that was a lightening fast, high paced, action filled episode with NO character development whatsoever, RIGHT?
Fucking short-term memory baby-bullshit whiners. You scream incessantly over how this season isn't as good and action-oriented as previous seasons and whine about how there's no way this season's threads could be sewed up when the same pace happens EVERY SEASON. It always picks up in the last couple of hours. -
Also, perhaps Cavil was behind Zak Adama eating shit too. Maybe Daniel was helping from beyond and Cavil was fucking everyone from a distance... or close up to Ellen Tigh.
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It isn't that it's slow moving and character driven. The problem is it's poorly executed slow moving and character driven.
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I bet she did.
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Mar 14, 2009 2:01:13 AM CDT
Gametime! List of crap we don't want to see next ep! [1] myste
by happyhamster
Anything else?
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Mar 14, 2009 2:04:56 AM CDT
Tai_pan: I'm the biggest BSG dork here. But - THIS. SHIT. SUUUC
by happyhamster
No seriously, THIS. SUCKS. period.
This is BAD "character driven" writing. Absolutely atrocious. And at the series end, no less. How does, by far, the worst writing of the WHOLE SERIES come at the end?! Jesus...
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The code behind this crappy talkback forum is better than these last few episodes.
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Tell me why the pyramids were made. Are you sure? Are you really sure? No. The true answers were lost to the ages. As for the Final 5, maybe we're getting the extent of their knowledge. They lived on 'Earth' for a while and didn't use ressurection. When an attack was coming, they sparked that up again and bounced. Not even the Final 5 have all the answers. How about this... use your imagination. Have some fun with it. Does everything need a pretty fuckin' bow wrapped on it? Wait, is this the 'No Country For Old Men' TB, haha. Twunts.
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Thought the same thing. Probably drowned that old bastard in the lake outside.
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I was with those who bashed her. I'm thinking now that perhaps I was unfair to her. It's really Ron Moore I should have been bashing.
I apologize, Jane. If you've got nothing to work with, then there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do. -
"ask anders how we should end the show."Even though I kind of liked this ep, that quote was fuckin' funny.
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That's all I care about.
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Best damn doctor of all time. It would have been cool if Doc was working on Anders before his big game.
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Get the wax outta your ears, Blatar did not say Fuck. It's sci-fi channel people not Cinemax.
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Mar 14, 2009 2:19:01 AM CDT
Integra - excellent points. This BAD, BAD writing folks...
by happyhamster
I hope you're reading this, Ron. Because holy christ, I KNOW you're a-fucking-shamed of this mess, since, based on past episodes, you DO actually know what good writing is. You KNOW this shit sucks. Why are you writing it?
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and help Adama, but that weasel didn't.
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Where Cavil was?
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...if this was the shittiest episode of a television series that he had ever appeared in.
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Mar 14, 2009 2:31:25 AM CDT
Lol, Anders, what's it like seeing your character fucked?
by lockesbrokenleg
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Ron Moore may have had the best of intentions, and I appreciate his efforts. We need more people like him.
I just think by not having a clear destination from the beginning, it gave the suits more say than they should rightfully have had. -
I'm sure others noticed, and I'm also sure some will think that it was the most brilliant thing ever, but flashback Anders was sitting in a tub while current-day Anders is sitting in the Hybrid tank thing. A bit of symmetry for those that think this show has some sort of higher meaning.
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of the scene.
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Someone with bloody eye sockets will fly out of the black hole and announce that they just got back from an "Avatar" screening!
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Agree with many the character scenes for most of this were poorly done.The last 15 minutes or so of this is how it should have started. Was some really poor editing, which a have seen throughout the lady few episodes. Too much character flashback scenes all at once. Lost does it better splitting it between present and past through the episode.
Lost creators I hope you are watching this and don't repeat the mistakes of RDM. -
just before the Cylons bomb Caprica.
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Admama didn't paint the wall. I wonder if that was dutchboy... As for the episode -- I feel B5 went out with a bang - this is fizzling -- hopefully they can salvage a meaningful ending but I doubt it .... reminds me of matrix 2 and 3 - all that potential - and they screwed it up..
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go thru it - Earth in the past -- before the planet was civilized -- :)
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Is something you show in season 1, season 2 maybe, you would not show it now unless it directly related to the events of the present
I get that this show is not just action, but is characters and their story, but the characters are part of a greater story too and you have to blend it all together, where good direction and editing is key.
The defenders are entitled to their opinion, but now I can see how some of my friends see me when they have an opinion on Star Wars. I am so loyal to Star Wars that I am not at all objective and worse, I don't have the levels of expectations that I would for any other tv show.
Am sure RDM could shit on a piece of paper and some would think it's art, amazing and poignant, whereas the rest would see it as shit on a piece of paper. -
how did it fly from earth to caprica?
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Maybe in years to come, the fans will make their own edit of the last four or five episodes, cut out the very obvious filler until it becomes a very tight and meaningful two episodes.
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Its been a great ride for me and thankful for 3 and half seasons of mostly brilliant TV.
Ending this was always going to be hard, as per my early posts so far I don't think it had been done well, will reserve my full judgement to after next week.
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...I had this image of him in a Willie Wonka suit, and burst out laughing.
"Employees of Dunder-Mifflin! Your attention please...!" -
Your basic "smash the eggs conveniently gathered in one basket" routine, as BSG rams the fucking Cylon Colony...sheesh. I'm not even going to touch how they were planning this mission BEFORE they even knew where the freaking (not fracking...enough of that shit) Colony WAS...
That, and more talking, flashbacks and emotional introspection. And the answer to who Daniel is/was...LIKE ANYONE GIVES A SHIT, after finding out what a useless bunch of whiners and drunks the Final Five were.
Man, I'm actually hoping this was all a dream or an autistic kid's fantasy at this point... -
Again, look at the previous 3 Seasons. All three seasons have a lot of so-called "filler" towards the end.
I say so-called because those episodes ("Colonial Day" "Downloaded" "The Son Also Rises" all the 3rd-to-last eps of their seasons) were all lead-ins to the last couple of episodes and provided the details needed to give the last couple of episodes punch.
This episode is somewhat different, as it is meant to be seen with the next two in one-sitting.
If you can't accept that there are time constraints, then I understand why this episode seems half-baked. I'm willing to reevaluate this episode when I have the context from the other two. After all, the next time I see it will be on DVD in a block of episodes.
Come Friday, you'll get a chance to see all 3 episodes in succession. I'm guessing that this will change some opinions on the episode (particularly if the last 2 eps are as good as we all hope them to be).
The rest of you will probably have to wait for Michael Bay's season 4 'splosions mixtape for succor. -
I've got to admit that the episode (and the previous filler/nothing really happens ones like this) benefit from watching it over again and the viewer not being fired up like in the initial viewing. could more have been done in this final 3 episode, Yes, but Ron Moore & company wanted these 4.5 episodes to happen like they have.
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well, at least we got to see some scenery for once. Doc Cottle wants to go on the suicide run, as he's over worked and has had enough. But fracking adama just wont let him die
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What's in it for them to go on this suicide mission to save one kid, who's half-Cylon? The Cylons seem to think she's their savior, but what about humanity's? I could see Adama and a couple dozen humans going with him, along with all the rebel Cylons.I actually would applaud Ron Moore for having the balls to have the little girl killed and dissected -- does that make me sound cruel, evil? Because if the Galacticans and rebel Cylons show up just in time to save the girl from being eviscerated... I don't know; this plot for the sake of action rings false.At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Cavil determines that the reason why humans and Cylons can breed is because of... L-O-V-E. This revelation would of course disgust him into a fury. If Ron Moore actually goes there with such a frackin' cheesy plot point, I'm going to say he just ran out of ideas after the Final Four were revealed.And that black hole -- it BETTER NOT be used to throw everyone into an alternate universe where they settle on a parallel Earth! That black hole better simply be used to destroy the Cylon colony instead.
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I hope we get some in the finale.
The most obvious explanation is that Lee got drunk and killed Roslin's family, then Adama spent an hour with police giving some bogus alibi to get him off the hook.
My concern, however, is that I don't really care about that backstory, and I don't see how it really enriches my enjoyment of the show. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but I'm a bit skeptical at the moment.
The episode basically ended at the point I was expecting - they're ready to launch the final mission - but the path they took to get to that point was paved with what appeared to be non-events. There is still a LOT to resolve in the last 90 minutes of this show. -
... of what happened to the deleted scenes from the miniseries.
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probably not, they couldve used this and tonights episodes to do so but they chose not to. which is fine.
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Something is horribly wrong when BSG is on, and I'm looking over to Dollhouse wondering if I should give it another shot instead of keeping on with this shit on my screen.
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This is my first comment ever in this TB. Usually I'm just a lurker and USUALLY this is an intelligent forum but tonight, WOW nobody seems to get what's going on.
In case you didn't notice the flashbacks MADE NO SENSE. This is because OBVIOUSLY they are not finished yet. 10 gets you 20 that next weeks finale starts out again with more of these flashbacks and will complete the thread that they've started. Each one is telling a story about HOW each person wound up on Galactica. I would bet large amounts of money that in each thread all of them will meet a person WHO HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED YET (or possibly the Piano Player) who will manipulate each one of them and change their future path. Bill looks like he's applying for a job, someone will convince him not to retire. Laura will be convinced to join Adar's campaign. Baltar will be pushed into a relationship with 6, Lee will be given orders to report to Galactica. Zak and Kara, who knows (Zak Killed? Zak's Death Faked by mysterious stranger?). The purpose of all of this is so that in the finale our many heroes can all assemble at one place in the heat of the battle and encounter this person again. All will instantly recognize him/her and all will immediately realize that they have been being manipulated from the very beginning. I think it's a master stroke. -
Oh yes, I forgot to add. And All Will Then Be Revealed.
I'm the prophet. -
So, this show spends 4 seasons taking chances, being a unique sci-fi experience, and often defying convention. It is continually praised for being this type of show. Now, after 4 years of sticking it out, everyone is bitching because they think that the ending should be the big predictable boom-fest that every other show on tv would do? The amount of contrarian-logic-defying whining on this site is beyond pathetic. Sometimes I genuinely feel bad for some of you because you must lead the most joyless lives in existence.
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remember him? he was always there in the background. and got lois and clark together for their wedding. remember how shit that episode was!
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I never watched Lois and Clark, but I don't think it's going to be like that (or like the 'Watcher' in Fringe). I don't think it will be anyone we've seen yet (unless it's the Piano Man). As to WHO he is, my bet of course is on the Daniel.OR the Daniel could be a red herring and my next bet is a 'lord of kobol'.I really tend to think it will be the Daniel model though. The Daniel model was brought up awfully late in the series to be just a red herring.
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FYI, I'm in New Zealand and have to download the show off of the internet, so I just finished watching it 1/2 hour ago.
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Where was he, and what was it he didn't want to do?
Was he there to identify Zak's body?? -
No shit...300-400 person suicide mission, and nobody asks "Is this trip necessary?"
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If you listen, Adama was going over his resume with the guy in the office. It looked to me like he was applying for a job. I would imagine that what he was being asked to do was actually do an "interview/audition" and didn't like the idea.
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Hey man, they're going to attack the equivalent of the Cylon homeworld. It's what many of these guys have been wanting to do since day one. The smart ones know they're on the verge of doom anyway, running out of everything. Better to go out with a bang. See 'Wrath of Khan' for their reasons.
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I keep forgetting that this is glorified space opera, and not science fiction...
See, in SF, you take into account the fact that the Cylons are MACHINES, and as such, are massively decentralized (hence the legions of identical Centurions, Raiders and Skinjobs). There should no more be a "Cylon homeworld" then there is a "central server" for the internet. Same goes for the "Resurrection Hub".
(As I mentioned a few weeks back, this isn't a fictional premise...it's based on existing theories about the most efficient way to colonize the galaxy, by brilliant minds like Dyson, Von Neumann and Kurzweil)
This series is winding down on a banal, melodramatic note...truly a pity, given its early promise. -
Mar 14, 2009 7:18:08 AM CDT
Right, that's it. I'm DONE after the next episode.
by christian_bale_trashed_my_lights
If the next episode isn't better then I'm done with BSG for good.Oh. Wait....
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Gamma Quadrant
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S3+4 have had some downright atrocious episodes, but this wasn't one of them. It's all, ALL, just set-up for next week - so until we get the resolution, I think it pays to wait and see. Ron's never let us down before, right? (Dear Gods, please tell me I'm right.)
And, speaking as an English person, Baltar doesn't say "fuck", not even remotely. It's clear as day he says "fracking". -
I've been on AICN since about 2000 (maybe 1999) and it wasn't always like this. I'll agree that there are weaknesses in these final episodes, but 90% of the assholes on this site are classic examples of "bite the hand that feeds".
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On there being something meaningful to that flashback.
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For me, THIS was the worst episode. Sure, i will make sense next week, but that is not an excuse to still have a week episode on its own. Also, every time they flashed back to Caprica, it felt like they were trying to get the audience ready for the "Caprica" spin-off series.
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holy crap...this is the end to what was an amazing show...notice i said 'was'..it very clearly has lost something...just cause people dont just blindly and slavishly praise the show now is not out of negativity..but desire for it to be as great as it should/can be
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Is that they behave like the show "owes" them something. Talk about pretentious, arrogant bullshit...change the channel and shut the fuck up.
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I, for one, will wait until the the series is OVER to make a judgment on how it all fits together.
And to all the haters and whiners... be sure to send me a copy of YOUR sci-fi series when you get it produced and broadcast on TV. I'm sure it will be a perfect mix of expertly written characters AND lots of space battles. I will be waiting.... -
there are folks on here that hate 'haters' who write critical thoughts, by writing hateful messages that critique these folks...
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Just the set up for the final two hours. It better be good!
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I'd like to know where Roslin got the "Champagne" they were drinking at the baby shower. Is there a France on Caprica or did they import it from Earth?
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'Cause, you know Champagne can only come from a specific region of France, yet it was clearly stated they were drinking Champagne. Just sayin'
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I bet 1 hour of next weeks 2 hour finale will be taken up by expanding on those awful flashbacks. The other hour will be the battle. Leaving all the other questions to be answered in the other shows.Horrible way to end the series. Lee wasn't the drunk driver because the cop said they had the other driver and he was in stable condition.
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70% of the people who post on these talkbacks are full of shit. Childlike whiners who probably walked out of the cinema during Watchmen's sex scene crying "LAME" and then told everyone it was crap even though they hadn't seen it all. I'll actually be glad when all this is over so I don't have to sift through juvenile rantings to get a balance view on this.
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Some of the best acting we've seen on BSG, but I guess most AICN readers are from the "make it go boom crash pow!" school of Michael Bay.
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...was average, but I loved the flashbacks showing what is undoubtably going fuck with our heads in a big reveal. I think Baltar said "fuck" because that word is in use on his home colony. (his dad sounded like a northener=common...funny) The finale is going to be great...for at least one reason:
The Galactica is going to jump RIGHT ON TOP of the Cylon Colony!! I want to see Cavill look out and see it and say "Oh Frak". -
Why? Because I was in it. God bless friends who worked on the set...
http://tinyurl(dot)com/b7dflf -
A couple of weeks ago, I could have sworn I heard another character say "fuck" instead of "frak." I don't remember who it was, but I believe it was one of the final five. At the time I amused myself by assigning it meaning... like, the final five were from Earth, so they slipped into Earth profanity in times of stress. Re-watching it over and over, though, revealed it could just as easily been "frak." Baltar's expletive really does seem to be "fuck" though. I imagine it was just a goof.
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Search your feeling, you know this to be true.
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So is time travel (Lost), holograms (ST:TNG), and "re-imaginings".
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Leaving New Caprica too soon. Everything has been aimless and tacked-on since then.
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I agree, Moore has run out of ideas and had no idea how to finish the show. Theyre going through the black hole to find earth.
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...all the trolls turn to stone. Well maybe not yet or maybe because most of the posts are overnight and they like to come out a good dwarf and hobbit camp-out. I can't remember if I started watching the show because of reading the talkbacks, or if it was the other way around, and it is a bit of a shame to have to walk through a row of knee-jerks and not bruise a shin or ankle, but the BSG lovers are still here so i shall lurk a little longer.
This was a great episode, but clearly and naturally incomplete. It's part one all right. The show was always best taking its cue from its characters, and it has done it a lot.
Adama was looking for a way to send Galactica away in a style fitting for the Old Woman of the show (the grand old cougar). Seeing Hera's picture placed on the wall ahead of time got him hoping. Kara, "my daughter", feed his hope and together they decided the plan, and drew a line.
Other characters are still without direction beyond not knowing where else they could or should be than "there for the end", excepting one other series regular, Mr "can't help hoping there will be something good if I just live long enough" Baltar.
As for the flashbacks, well I recently rewatched the extended 'Unfinished Business' (still a controversial one in these talkbacks I guess) and I know how well the show can use prologue. You can forget how frakked-up, unhappy, and desperate these people are at times. Seeing them in better times that aren't really so much better helps me see how much stronger they are now. Glad to find that many here reamin curious as to what the pain and suffering were all about. -
...and it just keeps getting better and better. Also, Herc's idea is fucking retarded, and the kind of shit you'd see on Lost. There's never going to be any sort of explanation for how all the characters on Lost are so interconnected prior to their time on the island. There's no need to port that same idiotic device into quality programming like BSG. That does not mean, however, that I don't think the idea above that the flashbacks will introduce a new character who will show up unexpectedly in the finale in the "present" who will instantly be recognized by Roslin, Lee, Adama, Kara, and Baltar. In fact, I can see that as being an excellent way to introduce the segue into the "Angels" explanation and the final and full resolution of the series.
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That does not mean, however, that I don't _like_ the idea above...
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If Cavil was the drunk driver and six killed Baltar's father, then they must have killed Zac, too, and part of the plan is manipulating the main characters. I hope that is not true. It would be too contrived.
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You're forgetting Rule No. 1 in the show's bible: NO TECHNOBABBLE. RDM has specifically avoided getting into technobabble and pseudo-science explanations due to the way they limit narrative possibilities. They have steadfastly avoided using technobabble deus ex machina through roughly EIGHTY HOURS of programming so far. What makes you think they're suddenly going to revert to those type of tactics to resolve everything in the final two hours?
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In the finale, Bill Adama will meet his fate when a giant computer screen crashes down upon him as he is attempting to take the Galactica into, through, and beyond the Black Hole.
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Perfectly sets up a heartbreaking and seriously actioned packed finalé. Dont get the hate around here. Its not even come to its end yet.
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Mar 14, 2009 11:04:32 AM CDT
And what sci-fi fan wouldnt want to see some blackhole action?
by col. tigh-fighter
Its geek porn!! Frankly, there havent been enough good blackholes out on film yet! I wanna see some big blackhole suckage action, mixed with much death and explosions. With a side of emotional blackness and tears. Sounds lovely to me :)
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and that takes this show above the likes of ST:TNG at times, in that there are no "reversing the polarity" moments. It's great character-based.
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...did you miss the Futurama Titanic episode? :-)
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I can't believe its nearly over. I am as equally excited about next weeks finale, as I am filled with dread. I love all the characters, and the prospect of seeing one or more of them snuff it, is going to be hard to take. Adama, Roslin, Starbuck, Tigh, and Balthar all fucking rock. I think Ron Moore has set the whole series up beautifully. I don't think any of us BSG fans will be disappointed, apart from the fact that this is the end of the road.
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Count on it. I'm guessing they travel back to near present day Earth and prevent the Cylon/Human war, thus interrupting the "What has happened before will happen again" cycle.
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EW suggests that Lee was the driver. Thus the drunken scene makes sense. Either a brilliant episode and very moving.
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Mar 14, 2009 11:36:25 AM CDT
DeCypher44 - you nailed it. Ep used to promo Caprica...
by happyhamster
These last couple eps have been used to promote the Ron Moore's *other* BSG projects that no one gives a shit about.
Still, I'd be cool with cross promotional stuff if it was handled well. But not enought thought was put into these last few episodes, resulting in (VERY) subpar episodes leading into the series finale. -
I'm with you on this but I think it depends on how scientific they are with the actual black hole. They've already talked about the accretion disk so that's something. However, it's my understanding that if you're close enough to see the black hole, then even FTL won't save you. How can you orbit a black hole either?
Meh, maybe you're right.
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Looks like they're not concerned with tying up any of the dangling plotlines that originally made the show interesting. They're just floundering here at the end. It's almost like each episode is worse than the last. It would be impossible for this show to come to any kind of satisfying conclusion at this point. There's just no time left. I keep watching just so I can say that I saw them all.
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Talkbacker "Sector_11374265". Because it was the PLOT that made the show and the ball has been completely dropped in this regard.
Now we've got Roslin hanging out in fountains, Lee flailing at pidgeons, and Kara scrunching her brow over dots on construction paper. Good job, Ron Moore! -
they said it's a naked sigunlarity which is very different. No visible Event Horizon. And probably some really weird space-time effects.
So yeah, it'll probably be a time travel ending. They all go back to Kobol and start the thing all over again -
There was almost nothing that moved the story along other then then Adama asking for volunteers.
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has become the buzzword for "i don't like it, and I can't form a reasonable opinion"
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Mar 14, 2009 12:47:36 PM CDT
To all the people who wonder where the neck ties, cars and champ
by whofan71
BSG incorporated "real world" elements from the very begining. (and I'm not talking about the crappy MTV reality show.)
Every since the mini series, we have seen fashion and technology that is very familiar to every day real life. That's one of the charms of the show...the fact that these things are there, but never explained, but they make you think about it and wonder. Same thing goes for ambiguity behind the Cylons motives. From the begining, there has been the unspoken question of, "what if the cylons are really trying to lead the humans to some greater reality." You know, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.
All that being said, don't be afraid of a little mystery. -
To all the people who wonder where the neck ties, cars and champagne came from."
But, who realy gives a shit. -
No, filler means nothing is of any consequence or progressing. That's exactly what's happening here. The only one thing of consequence is the decision to go save Hera, and that could have been done last week. These episodes are mostly filler because they just repeat and repeat stuff we already know, filling time. That's not "character developement" btw, there is no significant developement going on.
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was looking for a reason to go and watch this seasons episodes...after reading this talkback I won't bother.
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The ending is what really matters, and it will hopefully justify all this character build up (or not...).
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It did feel like an extended commercial for "Caprica," at least to me. Look, I didn't mind the flashbacks, had they served a point. But as someone else brought up, you don't go around introducing plot points NOW, at this stage. Ridiculous. That episode was part one of the series finale, and it was garbage. Now, the last 2 hours look like they will be a damn good time (and they better be), but to have to endure a wasted hour to get there is awfully disappointing at this late stage. But I know, I must not criticize everyone's little precious BSG; the great and all powerful Ronald D. Moore has given us this gift for free and we peons must remain silent and accepting.
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It's on my DVR and it is absolutely "I need this like I need a fucking hole in the head." Not "fraking." SciFi HD, Dolby Digital, 9 p.m. central airing. It could be different on the standard-def stereo feed and in subsequent airings.
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Roslin previously had flashbacks of seeing Baltar with a blonde woman on Caprica, but she couldn't prove it was Six. Baltar's role in the destruction of the Colonies has never been fully exposed and the show is not going to leave that hanging.
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was duped, he wasn't complicit in the destruction (not in this version anyway)
And yeah he's been covering that up. But when he was injured on the base star he confessed to roslin and she decided to let him live. (iirc) -
Looks a bit fuller and rounder up top, no??
Problem with alot of these episodes is they don't stand alone as 45 minute episodes and many come across as pretentious and self indulgent art house cinema. But if you watch episodes in 2 or three hour blocks they become much more satisfying, especially when you can fast forward thru much of the over the top angsty moments. I love the series, but I have loved it thru DVD and DVR-ed episodes. It would be interesting to have someone cut alot of these episodes into 2-3 hr. movies much like that old cut of the first two Godfather films into one long film. An episode like last night for example would be infinately more effective when sliced up and sprinkled into a heavier action-drama episode. Vignettes and character moments are wonderful and they do do them quite well but they went overboard for sure this season. These moments salted in to a more aggressive epsiode would make for a much much more compelling tele-movie -
There were no new plot points. What you seem to think as "filler" is actually what the show is about! It is not a story based show. BSG is about people, not a story. Yes, there is an over riding arc. Much more than "nothing" happened. You can see how some of the characters actually conducted themselves before the attack. Then, the attack comes and it changes them to what they are on the show. I realize for some that if it doesn't have the violence, Suggestive Six scenes, the drums, the battles, use of 'Frack,' it is 'filler' and not worthy of viewing. I think you have missed what the show is about.
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So is time travel, so is every Science fiction staple you guys are complaining about, if it's used in a good story. These genre stables are what got us into science fiction to begin with.
"Yea, the Time machine by Hg Wells helped start it all...it would be a classic if it weren't for that stupid time travel idea."
I guess you guys would rather be breaking codes with Nic Cage, and chill'n in the matrix.
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"But we're just watching out for lazy story telling."
Except there is, as yet, no formula for failure.
A Black Hole has great mass and is in space.
You all rely to much on determinism. Just because Event Horizon and the Black Hole movie weren't good; doesn't mean it's now a universal formula for badness.
And i'm aware that many folks here LOVE both of the films I just mentioned. -
from wiki
"In general relativity, a naked singularity is a gravitational singularity without an event horizon. The singularities inside black holes are always surrounded by an area which does not allow light to escape, and therefore cannot be directly observed. A naked singularity, by contrast, is observable from the outside.
The theoretical existence of naked singularities is important because their existence would mean that it would be possible to observe the collapse of an object to infinite density.
Some research has suggested that if loop quantum gravity is correct, then naked singularities could exist in nature,[1][2][3] implying that the cosmic censorship hypothesis does not hold. Numerical calculations[4] and some other arguments[5] have also hinted at this possibility."
Predicted formation
From concepts drawn of rotating black holes, it is shown that a singularity, spinning rapidly, can become a ring-shaped object. This results in two event horizons, as well as an ergosphere, which draw closer together as the spin of the singularity increases. When the outer and inner event horizons merge, they shrink toward the rotating singularity and eventually expose it to the rest of the universe..
A singularity rotating this fast might be created by the collapse of dust or by a supernova of a fast-spinning star. Studies of pulsars[citation needed] and some computer simulations (Choptuik, 1997) have been performed..
This is, of course, an example of a mathematical difficulty (divergence to infinity of the density) which reveals a more profound problem in our understanding of the relevant physics involved in the process. A workable theory of quantum gravity should be able to solve problems such as these..
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why didnt boomers spine glow when she was getting it on with penis4brains?
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Really, nobody else was blown away by the sight of Cottle in his old uniform, trying to save the baby he'd been looking after all these years? And Adama calling him Sherman?! You heartless scum. Moment of the season, right there.
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and crash on a mysterious tropical island. The Galactica's FTL drive malfunctions, causing the island to travel in time and locations. The Cylons become a nanotech swarm and the humans become semi-immortal inhabitants of the island. Then in the 1970s a group called the Dharma Inititive finds the island and begins excavation of the crashed Galactica.... lol
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my money is on Tigh
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the damaged galactica will enter close proximity to the naked singularity.
To escape they will use the ftl.
But due to frame dragging effects (physics thing) from the singularity, they emerge in the far past.
They make it to Kobol and start anew as their own ancestors.
Someone writes the prophecies and the whole several millenium event repeats. -
... at the beginning of each episode and as been so since Season 1.Fans were sold on BSG
as a story of humans and the machines who rose up against their makers, destroying their worlds in a great apocalypse, survived by only 50,000 souls in search of Earth/a home.I, for one, expect to see the telling and the ending story that has been referenced every season in the intro (with story-centered character arcs).I'm waiting for next week - part 2 of Daybreak - to find out, though. -
Mar 14, 2009 2:45:14 PM CDT
"...and I don't see how it really enriches my enjoyment of the s
by junior frenger
Except that it parallels the entire theme of the show Omar.
If Lee plowing his car into Roslin's family is indeed the connection. -
Tie up all major plot connections in the last 10 minutes in a flurry of CGI. And Tarkin on the bridge with Adama.
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Remember when Athena stuck some wires in her arm and knocked out the Cylons?
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I can totally see that happening, as much as I didn't want there to be a closed loop time travel thing happening. Kinda depressing when you think about it.
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Is the actor who plays Hot Dog related to Olmos? Could have sworn his last name is the same. Thought I saw it in the credits.
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will get them to Kobol
I hope they don't have a tng ending with the old girl belly flopping on the planet -
Hot Dog is Olmos' son.
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hey you douchebag, that was the dumbest reason anyone on the talkbacks has used to attack me. I am grateful to have had the 'opportunity' to watch this show... maybe opportunity wasn't the best word to use, but really, how does that make me a pussy? I had no interest in a show like this until i checked it out and it has been a top 3 show for me on an episode by episode basis. All I was saying is i'm grateful moore made a show that i get excited about every week. By 'opportunity' i meant that moore created this show and, as someone who had never watched a minute of anything on the scifi channel, i appreciate the show he has given us fans. The fact that it is on tv means that i had an 'opportunity' to watch it... i chose to, and because of that, i am thankful that i took advantage of the opportunity to watch a show i never thought i'd be into. And i'm not a pussy. people who make personal attacks based on the type of comment i posted are pussies looking for someone to lash out against because they have such pathetic lives and they use these talkbacks to compensate for the fact that they're nobodies in life. People can disagree with every post i make and that would be fine by me. People who make personal attacks for lame reasons prove that they are douchebags and as a result, their opinions and comments mean nothing to me. get a fuckin life, man. (personal attacks in matters of self-defense like this are ok... its completely different than just coming out and attacking someone for no good reason).
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with the whole *this has happened before and will happen again* thing, I think it's inevitable
But that creates the paradox of the human race doesn't have a real origin.
But a naked singularity is a real weird thing (if they even exist outside mathematical exercises, there hasn't been one observed yet) so maybe it could create a paradox -
i completely agree... i say the same thing, except i call them 'fanboys with a false sense of entitlement.' Its like they think its so easy to create powerful plot twists. So many think they have 'better' answers for question the show asks, however they would be completely incapable of sustaining a show... its like they think that plot twists and answers to questions are the only things you have to do to create a great tv show... you can't just answer questions you need to pose a question, answer a question and that answer should make you ask another question. Lost is damn good at that, and battlestar is pretty good at that.
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yeah. by macnemara and troy
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Either that, or it will suck them all in, all the chicks will merge into one perfect female, who will be naked on top of Lee Adama, and he'll say "I feel sick." Fin.
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...you seem to use the words "pussy" and "douche bag" a lot.
In your writing, i would recommend substituting them, on occasion, with "Vag" and "feminine Hygiene receptacle" just to keep it fresh. -
Why was the Tyrol let out?
Why would any of the mutineers, who have essentially been proven 100% correct by Adama and the Cylon's actions occuring after the coup, go on a suicide mission to save a cylon-human hybrid who is the daughter of Helo (a person who should have been airlocked on numerous occasions for jeopardizing the fleet)? -
They got the Cylons pregnat. Are we in for a V Starchild ending?
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I don't say pussy much, only reason i used it is because he called me a pussy. And as far as douche goes, i definately say it alot, but that's cause it applies. I care more about making points than choosing a variety of words to attack people with. bottom line, a douche is a douche.
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He hates them so much. Why didn't he just kill Ellen?
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and anyone that doesn't is a douche.
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guess they finally decided he had enough for his emmy reel.
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...than for Hera's.
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When Roslin's cancer-friend died, she had the dream on the ferry, her friend's loved ones waited for her on the shore.Could well be we got to see her sisters, Baltar's father, etc., so that we will recognize them in a river-crossing reunion next week?
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yeah, def a personal loyalty thing
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"...isn't up to Battlestar Galactica standards" or isn't one of the better episodes...yet you are here every week bitching about every episode. So really, what have you liked? Why do you call yourself a fan? Because there was an episode in the first season that had a good battle and you wish the show was more like that? Seriously, the whining is just incredibly childish and moronic. You're like Richard Hatch and the original BSG fans crying when the remake was announced. "But it's not how I would have made it. Waaaaaaaaaaaaah. My ideas are so much better. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah." Just because the show is not going where YOU want it to go, you hate it. Fine. If you find nothing to like anymore then stop watching. Or suffer in silence. Either way, just stop whining like a little bitch. I don't care. Ron Moore doesn't care. No one does.
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Dude, you are such a dreamer!It would be nice, of course. But Death, Taxes, and Whiny Bitch Talkbackers are the only certain things in the world....
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Her whole family dies. She gets cancer. Her planet blows up. Her best friend gets shot through the heart. And all the prophecies she believes in have been false. Wow.
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I've read TB'ers here that the show saved all their money for a "gigantic epic battle" in the final episode. I think there will be a small battle but it will disappoint those viewers who are expecting a StarGate: Atlantis vs. Super Wraith-Hive type face off. I think the finale will be just about the characters & family, like season 4.5 has been about. Which is fine.
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Husker does*
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The Wifey© thinks she looks pregnant (she noted how her jacket was conspicuously designed to cover a belly/hips).
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exactly right. as i said above--this show brought viewers in early for the wrong reasons. Season one was action packed, and these guys ate it up. There are so many 'fans' of this show who don't seem to understand what it's about... its rediculous they even consider themselves fans, because when it comes down to it, they are not fans of the show. they are fans of parts of the show, but i don't get why they didn't give up on the show sooner... so many of us have enjoyed every minute of it, these people keep hoping this show will go where they want it to, but week in, week out, the show is the same as it always has been. The biggest problem battlestar has is that its so called fans don't get it. The thing is, i really believe that's its biggest problem, which is great, because that problem has zero effect on my ability to enjoy what is always a solid hour of consistently good tv. I wish All those people who are and have been barely hanging on by a thread and bitching about giving up on the show all season long would do just that-- give up on it. you don't like the show, we do, just go away. i will continue to enjoy the show with a bunch of others--nobody cares if you are 'giving up' on the show. There is no reason whatsoever to come to this talkback to bitch and say how you've given up on it... WE DON'T CARE. While you're we're at it, howabout you tell us what sports team you've given up on... tell us what book you've given up on... tell us about the happy life you've given up on.
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Baltar's dad, or Roslyin's family!
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...is an apologist. And every single dramatic propery has them. I've really enjoyed something from every season of BSG, and I really disagree with people who hate on all of season 4. There ARE haters for whom nothing is ever good enough. But I think most people agree There's been some awesome in Season 4. But the show has definitely been dragging its heels since the end of the (awesome) mutiny arc.
The difference between me and an apologist is I can assess the show critically as it goes along. Good and bad, up and down, effective and not effective. An apologist exercises a tautology instead. Whatever the show is is what is meant to be ("disregard everything but character! It's about character!") and people that don't like it just aren't smart enough to understand it (how obnoxiously insulting, by the way). The definition of what the show is, is amended or limited as necessary to maintain the tautological perfection.
Battlestar Galactica isn't about just character though. It's about how excellently it has handled all the dramatic elements, Characters and their interaction, dramatic tension, mystery and resolution, action and excitement, being smart and avoiding cliches (and often putting them in characters mouths as guesses so we know they know), and, indeed pacing too. Not all action and dizzying plot changes, and not all talky talky blah blah. It's a balance. And when this episode ended with the 5 minutes that were in the friggin' trailer and nothing else new, it's normal that people feel let down by that. The show is dragging out to the end / phoning it in/ and critical viewers can tell. Doesn't make em haters. Just fans who still have expectations of excellence from an excellent show. Nothing wrong with that at all. -
As Cory849 eloquently explains, there are REAL problems with the show right now; problems that can't be explained away by people not appreciating the subtleties of "character development". It's bad writing, period. Some of us aren't going to excuse it, just because we loved the other 90% of BSG's history.
Great post, Cory. -
I think leaving so much additional character development for the finale is not a great idea. We established long ago that Lee was upset about his brother's death, and knowing how Roslin agreed to stand for a cabinet position doesn't change my opinion of her. These characters already have so much on the table that crowing it with more plates seems unneeded.
Are the flashbacks setting up post-death reunions? Now that would be okay with me, though they spent a but longer on that setup than I would have liked.
Are the flashbacks meant to set the stage for a "gotcha" reveal that links everyone in an amazing incestuous cooincidence? I hope not, because I would rather not have the entire 4 years of BSG storylines to hinge on a last-minute surprise reveal, and that's what it would feel like to me.
I really wanted to start seeing some small resolutions to the plot threads that have been going on for years. Trying to sew everything up in the last 90 minutes means that some won't get as much attention as they deserve, or maybe that some simply won't be resolved. The last real "resolution" was for Gaeta and Zarek, and it was outstanding. Before there was Dualla, also great. The past few quiet episodes have basically just delayed everything to the last second, and I think that's a mistake. We'll see... -
nice post... well said. For the record, my comments were not directed at people like you, nor were they directed against people who are constructively critical. My comments were for the people who keep coming back saying how it sucks (unlike you who articulated your stance very well). It was for the guys who, week in, week out come here only to bitch and keep showing up telling us about how they are giving up. THOSE people don't understand the show. And for the record, i did say i was concerned about how much is left to explain in two hours. I wouldn't call everything since the mutiny plot dragging. People splooged all over the place about those mutiny epsiodes, but to a certain exent, that's proof that they don't get it. They want all action like that... short of that arc, a large group of haters won't stop bitching about every other episode. It has been quite clear who appreciates the show for what it is and it has been quite clear who only likes certain kinds of episodes. Then you're in the middle ground, who don't hate on it but don't stand behind every episode. Let me ask you this, though: What does someone get for unconditional love of the show? They are satisfied and entertained. What does someone get by coming here to bitch and say they want to give up? absolutely nothing. Those people shouldn't be here, period. I'm all for intelligent debate, but its those kinds of haters that myself and others have been fighting with. Its not obnoxious to say certain people 'don't get it' because the fact of the matter is that the hardcore haters just don't get it. its plain as day if you've been here every week.
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Yeah, beautiful post. Except that RDM himself has said the show is all about the characters and narrative comes second. Try again.
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Was starting to think some of the apologists post were getting very getting overly defensive and some even immature with their absolutist point of view i.e. "if you don't like it you are a douche".
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was tongue in cheek. I hope everyone got that.
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Even if the show is all about characters, which if that is the case would probably be the first production in history not to have a mix of plot or even an examination of humanity. Which of course it isn't, if your focus is on characters then you are also telling the story of those characters
You and others say "characters" like the show is purely an acting class, that's clearly not the case, even a minimalist play or tv show or movie i.e. Dogville have elements of story, themes etc -
You are right it was Tongue in cheek, came to mind rather than being a good example of the absolutist comments that are being thrown out there
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I think this is true. Whenever I hear someone whine about the 'soap opera' that fact is obvious. Or when someone makes the ridiculously stupid statement that they like to fast forward through parts of the show. I mean, why bother? I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time if they only liked 'part' of the show. If I like the show, even if there's a part that's weaker, I watch a show, warts and all. I'm just so tired of this fucking X-Box, MTV, youtube, internet porn culture with zero attention spans, always looking for immediate gratification, who think that television should spoonfeed them and give them what they demand, as if the writers and producers 'owed' them something. So yeah, those people ARE douches.
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No one's saying that the show is all about characters and the rest of the elements of the show be damned. Read a bit more carefully, there. What they're saying is that on BSG, plot serves the characters, not the other way around. The writers are going to choose a plot point that is meaningful to the characters and takes the characters where they need to go on their journey. Rather than writing some random plot just because it's "cool" and people like space battles, whether or not it will actually affect the characters. And what happens to the characters on their individual journeys are all versions of the journey of humanity, so theme is intact too.
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Have read very carefully,maybe I was making my argument too simplistic, apologize for that, was trying to make a point.
Additionally people can be critical of the way it's done, i.e. editing, directing, storytelling and that doesn't automatically make them people who want a Michael Bay movie.
Again I apologize for being too simplistic in my comments, overall just want people to be comfortable with other people having different opinions and to be comfortable with the notion that people will be critical and will be more likely to be critical of something we care about. -
Heh. Couldn't resist that one.
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I've seen that name before in Media, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
At least we are starting to get some good criticism on how the show has it's faults, instead of a crybaby rant regarding plot points people think as "sigh" Lame.
I like the show. And I am fully invested into it. But I appreciate comments on where the story is heading, that means that others have made time for it.
They should save it for after The Plan is shown. Only then will we have the full tale. It's like reading a book.
My only criticism is really about Caprica. It does seem that we will get some questions unanswered to be revealed in that series, but that has to be expected. Penny pinching bastards :D -
Well done, scnjedi... well done.oisin5199: i'm not sure if you were clarifing what i was trying to say, but even if you weren't, good post--you said what i wanted to say but explained it better.
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donkey lasher said: "My only criticism is really about Caprica. It does seem that we will get some questions unanswered to be revealed in that series, but that has to be expected. Penny pinching bastards"You were too nice with that comment. I've made it pretty clear that i am very forgiving of the show and have made it clear how big of a fan i am, HOWEVER, if they are saving answers to questions for Caprica, I will be furious. Reward the people who have stuck with the show for 4 seasons and even more years. Seriously, to save answers for caprica would be unforgivable, and I am genuinely concerned about that. and when you sayd "but that has to be expected" you could not be farther from the truth. In no way should "it be expected" that they will leave out plot points from a great show to get us to watch a show that is about as unproven as you can get.
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A recent example of a strong character focus done well in my opinion is the movie Revolutionary Road. TV example from a few years ago that comes to mind is Six Feet Under. Six Feet Under had an ending that was done really well.
Looking forward to how BSG ends, will it be a Soprano's style end or Six Feet Under style end, or something completely different. -
They give us quality like BSG for four seasons , but you are right at the same time want to keep info from us to help them sell their new "product".
Its the whole art, commercialism thing, ultimately SciFi is about making money.
Certainly not black and white unless we are happy for the government to fund all our art.
But in the unlikely hope that someone from SciFi is reading this TB, more stuff like BSG please. -
I agree, I will be annoyed and I will admit that. But the announcement of the Caprica spinoff before BSG finishes, is my only reason for suspecting that questions will be unanswered. I think that just about all will be revealed next week.
Is The Plan going to be released before or After Caprica begins? -
Am I the only one who thought Cap Six was hinting that she'd persuaded Baltar's dad to relocate by having sex with him (= dad)?
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Wow- what a great talk back, it would seem that the "Neon Genesis Evangelion"/ "Matrix 3" unsatisfying ending is coming to pass faster than that Sopranos finale can fade to black And for the loyal viewers, remember this is the SCI FI network, they will try to mess with you, and bet your bottom dollar that you will "need" to watch the new series(s) to get the answers that wont be addressed in the show itself.
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Haha!
I think that it doesnt matter now, about what happens in the finale. I think that many will dislike it. It's the Watchmen syndrome. Extremely high expectations.
The show as a whole has to be judged, just like a book. -
I've missed you and your agenda against this show.
As i've already said, judge this as a whole and then you can slag it off.
But there's still The Plan to look forward to :D -
Mar 14, 2009 9:46:52 PM CDT
It will be fun to watch this one, then the miniseries
by lockesbrokenleg
back to back.
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how did Boomer and Ellen find the fleet so easily?
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At the black hole, we discover that there is not just one Galactica, but three Galacticas in different time periods all commanded by Adama. We find out the naked singularity was caused by a tachyon pulse in the future. Ron Moore is a genius!
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Given what McConnell said about the finale making her want to put the miniseries on and start watching it over, I bet that the entire point of the flashbacks will be to lead right up to the opening minutes of the miniseries. The show would then, in essence, never end since the finale episode is also the episode right before the miniseries.
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Ron Moore will have most of the cast die, only to be brought back in OUR future as resurrection technology is discovered.
The signals that the dead broadcast.. are picked up by these new scientists who are attempting to save humanity and accidently download these people who WILL stop the cycle. -
end of the series, and the opera house is explained. I bet they're all at the opera house and the real BSG show never happened.
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That could happen. If it happens, then the Spinoff would be worthless.
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I think we have working theory for how Pa Baltar meets his end!
I'm excited for this final, and not for the above reason (eeww, really). These characters are fulfilling a destiny, and the flashbacks are important in that, but there is more to come. We found out a lot about how the final five found their part in the cycle, and it's the turn of the rest of the lead characters. There will also be the story of how they end this epic wandering the ships and people (maybe all the people?). Our hopefully something better, because the one thing this show has done all the way along is delivery a heady steady diet of "Wow!" moments.
Stand by to jump. -
ohiobobcat-- i think you'd better re-think your analysis. Its a FLASHBACK. Its not like we are going back in time and watching the beginning happen again... its a narrative structure device... it simply cannot lead right in to the beginning again... i'm not even going to try to explain why, because i can't put it into words... just rethink that logic.
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What if the black hole is not a ST:TNG reference at all but a Soprano's hat tip.Maybe RDM's black screen "Sopranos Ending" will be the Galactica and/or the fleet doing an FTL jump straight into the black hole.Just a thought.
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Yikes.
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Until next week.
Bring on the space battles!!! 1 -
Roland of Gilead walked through the last door, the one he always sought, the one he always found. It closed gently behind him.... The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed....
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A black hole is a point singularity with a exterior Event Horizon, size dependant on the mass of the singularity.
A naked singularity is a very rapidly rotating singularity that is distorted into a ring by the stress of rotation. It has 2 event horizons, both of which have been drawn into the singularity
It's a phenomenon that would make a black hole seem mundane. -
IMHO the flashbacks did not feel like going back. They did seem more about the forward arc of the characters and future revelations as others have suggested.Two examples are Kara and Baltar.Kara seemed solid and stable with Zak. We've never seen her like that to such a degree. Possibly she will be that balanced, sure footed Kara in the end.Concerning Baltar, despite their dysfunctional father-son relationship, Baltar was actually caring for someone other than just himself - possibly, he will again by the end of Daybreak.
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They should have showed him in the hanger bay at least. He was in the miniseries after all.
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Drinking age is 8 on Caprica.
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I'm thinking that you may have misunderstood. I never said that they were anything more than flashbacks. What flaw in logic is there in thinking that these flashbacks will continue to progress throughout the finale? They are building to an event, the fall of the colonies. That event started the show. These are flashbacks which lead up to the start of the show. When the show ends, I could put the miniseries on and it could be considered a continuation of the flashbacks. A literal representation of everything happening before and again. I personally hope that the last flashback will belong to the Six in charge at the Base Star, revealing her to be the Six who first uttered the words, "Are you alive?"
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A "naked singularity" is a Black Hole, but it is one that rotates extremely rapidly, allowing light to escape.Nontheless, I was referring more to the visual rather than the exact science (although the science of the naked singularity does seem to be very interesting).I wonder if any other sci fi stories in book, TV or film have used the concept - other than Stephen Baxter's "Ring."
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Can I just say for the second week in a row, since it was brought up, that the ending for Evangelion (the movie, at least) was actually quite satisfying? Certainly unexpected, but still pretty cool? Can anyone back me up on this?
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A naked singularity doesn't produce the TYPICAL gravitational effects of a black hole, making it possible to find yourself inside one without warning or prior knowledge.In other words, it is a black hole without the ususal effects of one.
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I almost put off watching this episode cause they've been so bad lately. Luckily this one was pretty enjoyable for the most part. I guess the criticism that it didn't advance things enough is valid but I was happy just to be able to watch it and it not feel like five hours are going by. There was some lame stuff but most of it was nothing new. I like the flashbacks; if they'd any sense at all they would have used an episode to show the final five story like this instead of having that lynchpin of the show blandly retold by "bump on my head jogged my memory" guy.However others are right in pointing out the laziness of introducing new elements in these flashbacks for a payoff (I assume) to come in part 2 & 3 ... It's just weak writing, like when Lee Adama suddenly "always wanted to be a lawyer" then promptly became one.
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now i get what you were saying... i totally misinterpreted your point, which is completely valid. I completely agree with your point now that i understand what you were saying. sorry bout that.
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With eternal event horizons.
A Black Hole is a singularity with an external event horizon.
Both are singularties with different properties. -
A nake singularity is called that because it would be visible to the universe
Whereas a black hole is not due to it's external event horizon -
*internal event horixzons...
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was kinda creepy how they were trying to depitct her in a breeder age group. She looked like an old broad trying to look young, and didn't come close to pulling it off.
It was bad filler, pulled off badly.
Baltars while pulled off a bit better was nothing but filler/
At this point in the game it's nothing but cheap filler and emotional bs to introduce these characters.
Same with Zac. 2 hrs left, who gives a flying frak and theres no way to make it so. -
A singularity is a POINT at the CENTER of a Black Hole where space and time are infinitely curved, meaning the singularity is PART of the Black Hole as opposed to being the Black Hole itself.You might be referring to Black Holes with HYBRID structures, such as a singularity with two sectors - one strong and one weak. That's the kind which in theory, opens up the possibility of travel to another universe.If RDM has the fleet to enter into this kind of Black Hole, then it would not be a true Sopranos ending although it might appear so to some.
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I refer to the idiots who said that the scenes on Carica were "clearly" plugging the new show "Caprica."
Hamster: "These last couple eps have been used to promote the Ron Moore's *other* BSG projects that no one gives a shit about."
DeCypher: "Also, every time they flashed back to Caprica, it felt like they were trying to get the audience ready for the "Caprica" spin-off series."
The City of Caprica is featured on ALMOST EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of BSG during the credit sequence. It was a major location throughout all of seasons 1 and 2 and is a place that comes up frequently in conversation throughout the entire series.
I don't think anyone is justified in saying that these flashbacks are a plug for the show "Caprica." Other than the titlecard and a mention in one of the lines, the word DIDN'T COME UP. They haven't mentioned ANY of the characters from the series in any of the flashbacks. You may as well say that featuring CYlons in this episode is just a promotion scheme to get people to watch "The Plan" or that mentioning Earth was just a promotion scheme for RDM's next project which is set on Earth yet has nothing to do with BSG. This isn't Bruce WIllis drinking a Pepsi while shooting a bad guy, here.
Caprica is important in these flashbacks.... BECAUSE THEY ARE FLASHBACKS. Where the fuck were all these characters before the attack? Oh, yeah, they were mostly on Caprica.
There's an entirely legitimate reason for flashing back to Caprica. Be fair and at least acknowledge that.
If any of you can point to a single reference to the upcoming show that had no context in BSG, then speak up. If not, I hope you'll spare this tb the moronic conspiracy theories. -
dude, it don't mean fuckin shit. He's showing you the people on Caprica so that you remember who they were and is rubbing your face in who they've become and what they've endured. That even their lives before all this were not fuckin perfect, just like me, I mean shit, I'm a goddamn pticher and I hit a fuckin home run in the world series. And just because I like to get my coke on, people pissed all over me. Well lemme tell you somethin, when Kenny Powers was on top of the fuckin world, it wasn't no picnic. Life sucks when life is good, and when life is bad. And Ron Moore is saying, look at these people, this is where they've gotten to. Because you're about to say goodbye to some of these motherfuckers, brutally, tragically, and perfectly. Mark my words, next week is gonna be there will be blood, there'll be more space porn than in a made for youtube stargate star trek battle mashup. Moore said about the finale "i was obsessing over the plot when i realized it was about saying goodbye to the characters". Some of these characters are about to end. The flashbacks wreen't development, just a reminder of who they were in isolated moments of time. I wouldn't be surprised if they're all about to do some grade a fuckin sully style hero shit, too. One theme of galactica is that there are no perfect heroes, only people who do heroic things. Most of the time they're eating sushi, dealing with their families, and thwarted ambitions and duties. Get used to it. Its fuckin life. Not one of you dipshits is gonna ever go through a stargate and meet the love of your life and defeat the evil villain while going off to live happily ever after.
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...means that there is no event horizon and what is at the center of the Black Hole is exposed to view. In this instance, the high spin rate of the collapsing star shrinks the event horizon out of existence.It is this spinning that has the HUGE impact on space-time, even causing a scar in space time at certain stages of the Black Hole. Anyhow, a Black Hole is not really "black" nor is it really a "hole," because in quantum mechanics empty space is never TRULY empty - so until next week's Daybreak Part 2, I will continue wondering what's inside or on the other side.Cheers!
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is a singularity with an external event horizon.
It is an area of infinitely dense space/time, that depending on it's mass has an effect at varying distances called an event horizon.
An event horizon is a region of space/time that beyond it, is unobservable to the external universe, due to it's proximity to the singularities gravity becoming to great for light/photons to escape.
It's called an event horizon because whatever events are going on, they are beyond a horizon that makes observation impossible. -
...Jon 'Two and a Half Men' Cryer. Can you imagine him mounting Six from behind? Creepy.
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has internal event horizons and thus has a visible surface (in theory)
Wht would probably be visible is the effects of the energu release from matter being stripped of its properties as it enters the singularity. Half the mass entering the singularity, half being expressed away as gamma rays and other highly charged particles -
and I used google spell checker twice on that last post.
Need a bigger comment box to type in.
this one starts scrolling at 5 lines and has wat? 40 char width? -
I hope that's just RDM's way of accounting for Dradis interference (a similar plot device was used to explain why Kobol was hidden, and why New Caprica was hidden, and why the heavy raider wasn't visible in "Maelstrom" and why the Cylons couldn't go to Ragnar Anchorage...)
If that's all it is, no big deal. If it's a way for Galactica to destroy the Colony, no big deal.
But I hope there's no time travel involved. It's somehwat intriguing to think that they might return to Kobol, but I'd rather see them stay away from time travel (wish LOST had done so).
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he was introducing more misery, for misery's sake.
Now it's just every character vying for who's wallowing in the greatest pool of shit. -
I don't think your going to get your wish.
The hybrids mantra of this has happened before and will happen again, doesn't feel like the Kobol expulsion, Earth / colonies split events.
It feels like a cycle, done over, and over, and over.
And would put everything in a perfect cycle of misery that the series has been building towards. -
I hope there's no time travel too. Although, I would be okay with travel to a distant galaxy or something like that where the fleet can possibly start a new life. But Ron Moore probably has other things in mind.
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Well, financially at least he must be doing very well off 2 and a half men. If he's only making a fraction of Charlie Sheen's $800,000 an episode - that'd still be several million a year.
I hope the BSG actors were paid well but given Jamie Bamber did the DTV movie Pulse 2 - I shudder to think ... -
that other than singularities that were possibly created at the moment of the big bang, no true singularity actually exists.
This theory postulates, that what we call singularites are actually events in the process of becoming singularities.
The theory is the universe isn't old enough for a singularity to have formed, due to time dialation.
And while there may be event horizons, what lies beyond the event horizon is an event in process. -
At this stage there is NOT an entirely clear reason for the flashback hence all the comments on it.
Saying that the payoff might come next week, let's wait and see.
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those other anomalies make me go hmmm
One of the fey theories of time travel has to do with entering a wormhole at a far enough distance that you exit the far end in your own past. (simplistic explanation)
if there is something fonkey near Kobol, a dive into the naked singularity ould tale them several thousand years into Kobols past.
Sorry Kids, I really do believe RDM is going for the time paradox finale
The guy still has star trek in his veins -
and it's not even close to as bad as some people are painting it. The only real complaint I had (and I am assuming it wound up on the cutting room floor for timing reasons) was Adama giving those people a good enough reason to go and throw away their lives to try to get Hera back.He didn't even offer them the courtesy of a reach around from a Six or an Eight.Also, do we have a reason why Anders would know where the colony was? That scene seemed to be missing a big chunk as well.
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RE The Post: "Are the flashbacks meant to set the stage for a "gotcha" reveal that links everyone in an amazing incestuous cooincidence? I hope not, because I would rather not have the entire 4 years of BSG storylines to hinge on a last-minute surprise reveal, and that's what it would feel like to me."
I believe there HAS to be a last-minute surprise reveal. The entire 4th season has been setting up for it (and probably since the midpoint of season 3).
It seems fairly obvious to me in watching that someone/something which has yet to be revealed has been actively manipulating their destiny and it can all be summed up into 1 question. What is Kara Thrace? The answer to that question will be the final reveal and all will be made clear(ish).So to sit back and go "ah what crap, the old surprise reveal ending copout" is kind of lame and sounds more like sour grapes that RDM is actually waiting for the end to do it. I'm willing to give the writers some really high marks for making it work. It would have in fact been a cheap stunt if it were SUDDEN and all lumped into the last episode, but it's not and it hasn't been. It's been a long slow burn and a helluva ride. Remember these are the same writers who "wasted" precious screen and dialog time with Gaeta for 3-4 episodes complaining about the ghost pains in his leg. Whiners complained about it "Ok, I get it, his leg hurts/itches, what a puss, get over it and blow something up". Then he gets executed and his final words "It Stopped". Devastating in a way that would never have resonated so clearly if the phantom leg pain were a device they had invented only in that episode. That to me is a perfect example of how courageous the writers and producers on this show have been. Any group that can pull that off has definitely earned my willingness to take the final ride with them. -
I loved seeing some of these characters in their former lives, while the reality of leaving the Battlestar has never felt more real.
It seems like people around here are smart enough to understand how many episodes are left, but somehow escape the fact that we just saw 1/3 of a "3 hour" finale. This isn't really "an episode" so don't be so quick to judge it like one. I for one wish they would've played the finale at one time, but whatever. The anticipation I feel for next Friday is rare indeed. -
...but I do think the digital shots they created are going to be re-used in that show. Anyone disagree?
And there's simply no way to know if the episode was 'good' or not. It's the first hour of a three hour show. I enjoyed what I saw, but yeah, a bunch of things were thown up in the air and left that. That's what you do. -
Well I hope that Riker doesn't wake up in the holodeck at the end of the last episode.
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It's not the fact that there is A big reveal that is worrying, it's that there are SO MANY saved up for the last second.
I totally buy into the idea that some of these people share a destiny - say everyone involved in the Opera House vision, plus Starbuck - and that saving the big reveal for them is probably a good idea.
But to also add big reveals about Roslin, Lee, and the Old Man? Plus maybe the Final Five? That is a lot to wrap up at the same time. And if EVERYBODY has a linked destiny, I worry that it will dilute the significance of said destiny.
I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, but they have really written themselves into a time-constrained corner where everything has to add up perfectly in order to prevent many central characters from suffering rushed and unsatisfying conclusions. -
hah cliche title.
seriously though, how long have they dragged this show on for?
I've actually been waiting to get into it to see if its worthwhile, ... for almost 2 years... given i haven't watched any of it (keeping me fairly objective you fanboys) it's enough of a time investment that It'd be nice to know beforehand if the series just shits its pants at the end like deadwood (yes i know they got cancelled before they could write a resolution).
anyways, to sum up, why the fuck has this taken so long?!? -
what if
by Hercules
'John Cavil was the drunk driving that car that wiped out the Roslins?'
What I really want to know is why a species with interstellar space travel is still using 'cars'? I want my jet packs and rocket ships, damn it!
Carry on with your intellectualizing. It's way more entertaining than the show itself.
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That is the most ridiculous thing I've read yet. Maybe you can't know if certain things are going to play out in satisfactory manner, but even if they're just putting balls in the air, there's still a good and bad way of doing that.
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Given our glimpses into their world we have quickly learnt they love a drink, and lots of it
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blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee blah blah blee blee blah blee blee blah blah blee
That's what I just took from about 90% of these whiney, bitchy comments.
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and that's all that matters. If you did too, revel in it. If you didn't, why did it take you this long to decide the show sucks?
I have faith in the mind that brought me the Dominion War, the one year jump forward, the showdown between Admiral Caine and Adama and the exodus from New Caprica.
Sure, there have been speedbumps along the way but I'd still take this over Lost (and I faithfully watch this show), Heroes or just about any other scripted show on TV.
Sit back and enjoy the last 2 hours. If you're unsatisfied, so be it. Complain all you want. I'll still enjoy all the greatness that was BSG. -
There's this huge misconception about this show that I really don't understand. People look at things like cars and neckties and say "these people have spaceships, why aren't they more like the Jetsons or Star Wars?" UGGHHH!
The reality is that they are much more like us in terms of technological development. Follow me here.
What do they really have that we don't? FTL & super advanced computers/robots, and that's it.
It really doesn't take a huge leap to believe that with just a few more discoveries here on Earth we too could be vacationing on Mars and/or running for our lives from killer A.I., or rather fleeing in our cars...while wearing neck ties. -
and wonders why, if they have steam trains that can go really fast, why everyone still goes around on horses and carts.
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that this overrated, narcissistic, gloomy pile of garbage with some of the shittiest plot manipulations, and alleged "character development", is finally going to die the death it should have 4 years ago. Even the good majority of the nerds who gave this foolishness a chance finally wised up back when the New Caprica plot line began, and declared correctly that the show had run its course. It was obvious to anyone with half a brain that Ron Moore, like Chris Carter before him, had no clue where he was bringing this storyline, and that assessment is being kind as it would be just as easy to point out that he had no clue at all what he was doing. This program has lost ratings, so a defense of its popularity is, put plainly, simply wrong. It has a "following", of sorts, but most of the flock have wandered off elsewhere. Except, or course, people such as myself. And in the end, that makes me almost as aggravated as the actual program in question.
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Charmand hates Galactica and still watches it. Don;t torture yourself any more man! Miss the finale and ignore Caprica! If you're right, you'll enjoy life so much more.
Ah fuck it I don't care, If there is a Hell I hope Satan is taking notes.
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they're having a girl fight over an old book, I'll be happy
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Two hours? seems like theyre gonna crap a whole lot into those 2 hours. Obviously, it's one of those 'unfinished' endings, leaving the fans wanting more, and leaving the story open in case they get the chance to spin it off. I'd perfer closure. Either they make it and everyone gets wrapped up, or Cavil kills them all, and the last scene is Cav laughing hysterically as the colony burns. I just want to know what's the story with Starbuck. Last show guys dont screw it up. So Say We All.
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"... nothing's happening, nothing's happening, something about their old lives, nothing's happening, it's over, a lot of people in the audience look pissed." - Family Guy's take on Blair Witch seems awfully apropos about this episode.
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The above comment about the finale leading us back to the beginning of the miniseries is quite interesting. Reminds me of David Lynch's movie, "Lost Highway". The end of the movie led up to the beginning of the movie. It makes creepy sense in relation to "All this has happened before and will happen again." I'm not predicting this as the finale of BSG, but it would be interesting if it did, and every flashback/memory/action all through the series would have double-meanings.
I'd think that those "original series" Cylon Raiders seen at the Colony isn't just a coincidence. It might indicate that the original series did happen. This current BSG story is re-living that history in another form.....hence "All this has happened before and will happen again." Where the Colony is currently located was found by the Cylons and is the Nexus point, spawning each and every BSG iteration.
Everyone is propelled to return to this point of origin to "get dumped into the pot of soup, stirred, and a new bowl of soup is ladled out". -
It seems that there's a misunderstanding on the part of the apologists, articulated clearly by Ace of Wands childish post about purple dinosaurs and power rangers. Critics aren't saying "we want more explosions". Critics are saying, 'hey, Ron. you have a lot of loose ends to tie up and you have two hours left. Why are you dragging your heels and using filler when you have so much left to do?' If anything I fear that this "go get the child" plot could distract from giving us the answers we've been promised. Hell why not one episode to have Tory revealed as Callie's murderer? Is that supposed to just be forgotten? In terms of the reveals we still need to know (and this listing is borrowed from elsewhere) i) How and why was Starbuck resurrected? ii) How is Starbuck's prophecy going to be fulfilled (harbinger of death etc.) iii) The opera house visions, iv) Daniel's identity/Starbuck's father, v) Baltar's head six, vi) The significance of Hera, vii) Whether humanity will find a home, viii) Whether there's a 'third party' who's been guiding the humans/cylons, ix) The Dylan song.
That stuff all has to get wrapped in the final episode, elegantly, for a satisfying dramatic conclusion to occur that doesn't leave the audience feeling betrayed by false promises.
After my last post Ruragh's response to me was to say that I was wrong because Ron Moore "even said" the show was about character and narrative was secondary. If this is so (and I'm not convinced Ruragh wasn't misconstruing Moore's intent) it is scary for two reasons. First because it means Moore has a George Lucas like blind spot for what has actually made his project succeed, and second because it is what a showrunner says when they don't actually think they can deliver a dramatically satisfying conclusion. It's essentially a foreshadowing of broken promises to come. Be worried.
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It's easy to do that. First of all it took almost this long to suck. Prior to that it was excellent; a decent amount of goodwill was thus built up ... I first had my doubts with the contrivances of New Caprica. Then S3 ended with a doozy of a shark jump. Then we knew it was gonna end soon, as announced. I didn't realize S4 was gonna take this long or I might have quit while I was ahead.
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I should have been lead on this show.
At least for overall arc
we would have had a cylon plan, and a cylon god.
We would have had the Lords of Kobol represented in a greater capacity than a magic arrow.
I could have taken it to the same place, better.
We'd have had a gun at ice planet zero, and a count iblis.
And it'd all have worked, made sense, and have been profound.
Here's looking forward to the star trek fini -
What if they are not flashbacks? And you know they are going into the black hole and probably to an alternate universe and find that Earth.
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Or in that universe there were never any wars and they are back on Kobol or some crap like that?
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if you're reading this, gentlemen...
well played :)
especially if you're both posing as one of the shit talkers!
truth be told, if I were involved in such a fan-obsessed project as BSG, be it as a producer or production assistant, i'd fuck with the clergy every chance I got. ;) -
Thanks for the props. been waiting for that. Because you've been so great, let me fill you in on the finale: Adama uses the blackhole to slingshot the galactica back in time to right before the nuking of caprica. only Starbuck survives (which is why there is two of her) but she's able to prevent the destruction of the colonies by inverting the wave frequency of the quantum tachion field generated by the cylon FTL drives (you know, spoiling the milk). A lot of people sitll in die in a big battle, but its ok because in the end it turns out it was just a holodeck simulation Chief O'Brien was running to help him decide whether he should stay on the Enterprise or take a new position at a space station orbiting Bajor. Caprica Six gains awareness, though, and goes insane to find out the last four years had been a lie. The last scene is her walking ominously through the crowded decks of the DS9 promanade. She reaches down, toward a crib . . .
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she also said a lot of things about being happy to be off BSG when her character had died. Its was all just to try to throw people off. She likes to play the audience, so I'm not trusting what she says.
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First off, it’s incongruous to think that a race could develop an FTL drive and highly developed ‘AI’ computers without improving basic modes of transportation as well. The technological leaps would go hand and hand. Also, while I could buy into the economic factor in rural areas, we’re talking about, supposedly, one of the biggest city in the colonies, Caprica. I mean come on, there are flying vehicles in the mini-series, and even in the opening credits. Now all of a sudden, they aren’t there?
The Steam Engine to horse and buggy argument doesn’t really apply either. There’s a bigger technological gap from wheeled cars to FTL drives then from steam engines to horse and buggy. One requires at least an advanced knowledge of Quantum mechanics, while the other only uses basic physics, which have been around for hundreds of years.
The writers were paying attention to these details in the beginning, and now they clearly aren’t (as someone above pointed out; Champaign? These characters visited France?) It’s just sloppy writing, pure and simple.
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ain't Katee Sackhoff. 'Cos she hates us.
I can't remember how it went down exactly... but I'm willing to extrapolate.
It probably happened like this...
(taking into consideration the average EQ (emotional quotient) of posters here)
BSG_Fan_Boi_69: "Katee Sackhoff has girl germs"
Katee Sackhoff being the big shot TV star that she is. Decides to hate all of us.
And thats pretty much what I think happened. -
OH NO!!! THEY MENTIONED CHAMPAIGN!!!
Did it ever occur to you that these aliens are speaking English? Did you think it was weird that they used words like "gun" "ship" 'toaster"
That kind of criticism is petty.
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You know it too be true.
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How do you know that? Which actor?
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"First off, it’s incongruous to think that a race could develop an FTL drive and highly developed ‘AI’ computers without improving basic modes of transportation as well. "---- This is just stupid. Some cultures excel in producing certain technologies while other cultures might not have those technologies yet excel in something else.
No one has any basis to say what demands were present on Caprica or the other colonies that should/should not have spurred flying cars, transporter beams, deodorant that last for 24 hours, fucking talking dildos that also cut the grass and sweep the floor... You have no basis other than gut feeling, so give the show's creators a break.
Look at the expectations of people back in the 1950s. They thought we'd be flying around in space cars dressed like microwavable burritos, but their expectations for computers seemed to be that they'd be enormous, screenless hulks that spat out receit paper.
We look back and laugh at those silly expectations now, but we're SO damn smart that we'll bitch about BSG not having flying cars.
It's just like a few weeks back when it was revealed that Earth reinvented resurrection but didn't have FTL. A bunch of knowitalls cried fowl, but never thought to ask whether or not that society had any real need or desire for FTL... you have no clue if they did or didn't, but somehow feel it necessary to err on the side of bitching like a little girl.
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And they even call him Billy
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all the rest die. 13 end up "time bumped" to a new Kobol.
13 tribes and 13 Lords begin again.
ok maybe some estras..lol
Hera, is mother to the 13th cylonbrids
Apollo, the sun god, father to the humans to come..
there are those that believe that life here, started out there, mayans,etc etc.. yada yada -
Aaron Douglas
If I'm right and your here. Watching your growth as a performer durring this series has been great.
Good job man.
If it's Michael Hogan
yo, dewd, you like totally like got your eye torn out. Didn't like hurt, man?
Did they like give you a bonus for that or someting? -
I relly like you as an actor, and like would kind of like to be like you. So I was wondering if like I could tay at like your place? Because like the reccission is like making it hard to get a job and like I can't like pay my rent. It would be pretty cool. We could like hang out together. And I like wouldn't be any problem. Because like I could like sleep on the couch and you and you wife like wouldn't even know I'm there. Because I like sleep all dayand like internet all night. But I'm like real quiet. So like you and your wife wouldn't like bother me at all. And we could go fissing, or like you could introdue me to your agent or like get me a part on a series. That would be sooo cool. Thanks man.
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Hate agreeing with one of the key defend BSG at all costs guys, but he is right on this occasion.
Though a pedantic would say that should have said "sparkling wine", as its unlikely that the wine came from the French wine region of Champagne. But that is being pedantic and nitpicking
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This is the internet. Where even idiots can get a large audience. The haters like to come here with their nerd rage and lash out at anything that is worth seeing. It is like it makes them feel better about talking shit about good entertainment. Or they feel cool that they can come here and act as if a great show like this is way below their intellectual beings. They come here to spew their hate because if they did it around people in their real lives people would look at their incessant whining like they are flaming homo's.
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in short, go fuck yourself. i watch this program because my girlfriend enjoys it, and we watch it together. i exaggerate my hatred of it, so as to rile ridiculous morons from Britain (which was never "Great".) But, in truth, no, i don't like the program, never have. Now, you post again on topic, since you clearly have such a fascinating life that it affords you the time to post on an anonymous forum to people you don't know about how they need to "get a life". by the way, does the term "girlfriend" confuse you? oh, and i loved the constant use of the Galactican profanity in your post. Proves beyond any shadow of a doubt how much of a nerd douchebag you really are.
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One of the brilliant deliberate decisions of this BSG has been the artistic decision to use all sorts of modern 20-21st century accessories. Instead of starting from the premise that since its alien things have to be suitably alien, it's taken a shakespeare company approach where you can put hamlet in present day clothes to send a particular non-verbal message. Asking questions about why they would say champagne or eat sushi really misses the artistic point.
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we now have Hate Boners
easier to weild -
pretend they're like lightsabers
you know like only bigger -
As this show comes to an end, I realize I'm only really interested in the trajectories of these characters: how they ended up where they are, how they react to each other, how they make choices, whether they live or die. I don't care much about the history of the Cylons, or the cyclical nature of the conflicts, or the paradoxes and mistakes about regarding parallel Earths (champagne, so-called Brooklyn Bridges, mysterious songs, ancient temples). This show just hasn't handled the science-fiction elements of this show with much finesse. I say that as a big fan and defender of the show. They haven't. Writers' explanations for lapses in plot continuity or basic logic are just not convincing, but the characters they've drawn MAKE the series. And it's worth pulling your way through all four seasons to follow them, see where they end up. Can't wait for next week.
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Mar 15, 2009 8:10:31 PM CDT
Lol. Someone on the internet called someone else a "nerd douche
by bigbaldpapa
Irony?
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To say something about these characters you have to have a narrative. It's nothing without the story. And the story's nothing without good characters. You really can't have one without the other in order to tell a really great story. So in the end I expect BSG to ante up with a good resolution for these character's sake. Otherwise what's been the point? I do like the characters also though. So let's have a good ending ok Ron Moore?
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I find myself surprised that I really liked it. At first I did a big WTF at the flash"back" but I got into it. I can understand why some people didn't like it, but frankly since I came to the conclusion that we're not going to get all the answers anyway I've been able to enjoy BSG more. I really liked last week's episode (especially the first half) and this one was top notch as well.
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This isn't supposed to be either/or.
If you focus only on plot, you get Michael Bay explosions and cardboard cutout characters whose names you can't even remember.
If you focus only on character, you end up with the worst excess of arthouse movies where people argue in a kitchen for 90 minutes.
The best stories mix character development with a plot that gives them a backdrop for said development. The BSG writers have spent 4 years hitting the audience over the head with the idea that there is a meaningful master plan afoot. The character resolutions are critically important, but the writers also need to deal with the overarching plot. The idea that the plot doesn't matter in BSG is just wrong, and I think RDM's words are being taken in a way much more extreme than he could have possibly meant. -
not sure who's who.
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Many of the plots have worked, especially early in the series. The "arrow of Apollo" arc in Season 2 hinted at something fantastic, yet the series was (at that time) less ethereal: it had not thrown so much loose or contradictory information at us, and what we knew was still palatable. We didn't need some long bullet-point bible to follow everything. Even as some episodes turned into French perfume commercials, the actors made us believe much of it, sometimes against our better judgment. The emphasis was never "only character" or "only plot"; it was always a mixture. The actors, even when they didn't agree with the Final Five arc, carried it on their backs. That is proof of their skill, and one of the main reasons I still tune in.
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After a huge battle, Adama confronts Cavil + Boomer inside the Pah'Robot cave. Boomer tries to kill Cavil, but Cavil gets super robot powers and destroys Boomer. Adama tackles Cavil and they both fall, but Adama gets teleported to the Celestial Temple of the Final 5.
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Though Cavil seems like a smart guy, he would at least get Boomer to provide him with some hand relief, before killing her.
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For me definetely my expectations are affecting the way I am seeing the last half dozen episodes, pretty hard to lower them at this stage for the two hour final and just sit back and relax and enjoy whatver is being shown to us.
But will give it a go. -
Referring to the post by Cory
"In terms of the reveals we still need to know (and this listing is borrowed from elsewhere) i) How and why was Starbuck resurrected? ii) How is Starbuck's prophecy going to be fulfilled (harbinger of death etc.) iii) The opera house visions, iv) Daniel's identity/Starbuck's father, v) Baltar's head six, vi) The significance of Hera, vii) Whether humanity will find a home, viii) Whether there's a 'third party' who's been guiding the humans/cylons, ix) The Dylan song"
Am not sure why, but have the feeling more of the above will be answered than we expect. Think the issue is going to be not what is revealled, but how it is revealled.
My feeling and fear is that it will be exposition heavy 5-10 minutes that will essentially answer points i), ii), iii), iv), vi), viii and ix). The answers will be provided at least to Kara, maybe Roslin, Athena, Caprica 6 and Hera (Opera House connection). The exposition will come from either Cavil, the Hybrid or a 3rd party (Lord of Kobol, or some godlike entity). Or Kara will suddenly remember who she really is (i.e. an Angel of sorts) and start the explaining.
The survivng humans and Rebel cylons, won't find a physical home (i.e. a new Earth), more of an acceptance of each other, and will continue their search of a new home. -
I wrote it off as not hearing it right until I saw all the posters on here saying the same thing.
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I've played the scene back ten times. There is a slight hitch in his delivery right when he says it, but it DEFINITELY sounds like 'fuck'.
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Listen to it again. It SOUNDS like "fucking", but he actually says "frakking". Listen to it again if you don't believe me. He says the word very quickly, and doesn't enunciate it very well, but it's unmistakable. A few people were even suggesting that that the Sci-Fi Network had released two versions of the scene to the airwaves. (Come on now, people.)
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to Kobol. Explains everything.
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It's like the finale of Sopranos when half the country thought TiVo was screwing with them over what Meadow did in the final scene.
I just listened to the scene five more times on headphones. There's crosstalk going on so I wouldn't want to bet money on it, but he clearly says 'frak' several times in that scene, but the one time sounds more like 'fuck'. -
I don't feel the need to defend BSG at all costs...
I've made my dissatisfaction known when I felt it. Deadlocked sucked. Season 4.0 was lame, most of Season three post New-Caprica was weak, and the BSG minisodes that came out a few months back were godawful. -
If they pull a Dark Tower ending I will be so pissed. I dont want a happy ending I just want them to somehow break the cycle no matter if it means everyone dies.
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Its the whole journey v destination thing
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i cant imagine a worse tv show than this. seriously losers only watch because they miss breastfeeding. stargate is like above this.
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could probably provide electricity to the entire easter seaboard of the US. Get that man on a wheel! The thing is, Tai_Pan, that you defend against all "attacks" with equal vigor. I mean, champagne? Don't even bother, it's a ridiculous complaint. Mine, on the other hand, are golden, so you may as well not bother with them either.
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lick it and you die. watch it and you vomit
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That would be a good indie rock band name.
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same thing no diff.
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thought you may have finally discovered masturbation.
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I haven't
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Is the St. Elsewhere Boomer of this show. I don't know who the Galactica Boomer is on St. Elsewhere, though.
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Mar 16, 2009 9:20:48 AM CDT
Finally, a Rick Berman style Star Trek ending for BSG!
by leafar the lost
They will go to the Black Hole to fight the Cylons, then the Galactica and crew will be sucked into it and go back in time to do it all over again. Remember when Roslin said that this will happen again. I see a "back to the beginning" coming. Most of you assholes will be pissed off by the ending, but Ron Moore could write an episode about a dog taking a shit, and I would still like it.
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How in the Hell can people like Stargate and not like BSG? I have seen probably half of all Stargate episodes and they are garbage. I usually watch them when I can't find A bad Dolph Lundgren Movie to watch at 3am. Stargate is laughable compared to BSG and the same people who like that shit are probably the same people who live in their Mothers basement anxiously cleaning there Kilingon costum and waiting for the next big Star Trek convention.
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BSG, Stargate, and The Sarah Connor Chronicles are all pretty bad. Looks like the latest "awful crap that stupid fans love" is turning out to be Dollhouse. It's sure to last as long as all of that guy's other failed projects. Let's get some good SF shows on the air. I thought I heard they were gonna bring back Farscape. What happened to that? I hope that new Star Trek movie is good despite its questionable pedigree (being directed by a guy who does bad television).
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I just paid a shitload more for 2.0 and 2.5
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...then the one most of you did. I thought this recent episode was fine. Really good even. After the somewhat ponderous last 2-3 eps, this one seemed like another return to form and was somewhat reminiscent of past seasons' set-ups.My only complaints might be Roslin's somewhat melodramatic turn in the park fountain and Lee's random pidgeon troubles. But these are nitpicks when I consider how I was surprisingly drawn into the flashbacks - quite unexpected. Other than that, I found it to be a very efficient episode that got my juices flowing in expectation for next week's finale.
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...some of you should re-read Cory849's post, think about it, and apply it to your own method(s) or criticism. The current levels of hyperbole are ridiculous.
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I missed it and I don't want to watch the recap.
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Diox: "i cant imagine a worse tv show than this."--- Thanks for forfeiting all credibility.
I guess you were doing shtick and just trying to annoy BSG fans who enjoy the show.
Tbolt: "The thing is, Tai_Pan, that you defend against all "attacks" with equal vigor. "--- If I feel it's a genuine attack for poor reasons, or if it's just more pointless bitching from the usual trolls, yeah. -
About 30 minutes could be cut out of this episode with no adverse effect on the forward progress of the show. Compared to the expendable 50 minutes per episode of the last several installments, Friday's ep was downright essential.
Seriously, though, I thought the Helo/Chief conversation was good. The Cottle thing was fantastic. Adama's grim resignation to go out in a blaze of glory was right on. Seeing some characters back before their lives went to crap was a nice respite as well, though I guess their previous lives were crap too. Maybe it's just a matter of degree.
But, with how characters can change attitude and motivations at any time, even something acted and written as well as the prison confrontation loses just a little bit of resonance to me. I found I had to decide "which Helo" and "which Chief" I should be assuming were in the scene, given their many conflicting and contradictory personalities lately. Even so, it was an enjoyable and dramatic encounter. It simply could have been more so if the events leading up to it had been more organic. Microcosm of the whole show's dramatic misfires, really.
On the "volunteer scene," I was one who took the numerous volunteers to indicate a leftover loyalty to "the old man," rather than any allegiance to Hera. Well done, IMHO. I guess I wondered why the many non-volunteers bothered to show up. They did it just so they could be embarrassed by lining up on the wrong side and having to walk to the "coward side?" It was like, "What? This isn't a goodbye pep talk? It's a sign-up for a suicide mission to try and rescue Agathon's brat? WTF! Color me no!!!" Haha.
Anywho, this episode set yet more plot-point plates spinning into motion and did nothing about the many threatening to crash to the floor in the scant two hours left in the series.
Time is running out to explain the in-heads, tie up the Cylon civil war, make the 5 something other than useless, prove the innate "importance" of Hera, send Roslin to her great reward, figure out why Kara can be both dead and alive, destroy or revive the Galactica, figure out what Earth is and when Earth is, bring comeuppance to that bitch Tory, make the Dylan tune something other than a mysterious red herring, flesh out the origin of the colonies and who knows how many things I can't think of right now!
Quite a corner they've painted themselves into with all the time they've spent navel gazing in 4.5
I'm still tuned in, hoping they can pull at least some satisfactory resolution off! Good luck! -
don't get me wrong, I think I've shown on these TBs I'm a huge BSG fan, but I guess a good solid T:SCC episode has been a long time coming, so I ended up liking it much better. I will LMFAO if the future episodes we get on TSCC is better than the upcoming movie ( plot wise, we know it can't compete budget/effects wise )
So I went back and rewatched this BSG episode and it isn't as disappointing the 2nd time around. I guess we have all be trained now to expect something flooringly awesome every couple of episodes and there is just so much left unknown and with only 2 hours left to explain, I think I smell a movie coming.
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I posted this in a prior TB (for what it's worth) but producer/director Michael Rymer is on record in one of the Sci Fi (now SyFy) Channel BSG videos stating that TPTB were VERY interested in BSG theatrical rights.If there are loose ends (I agree that there are likely to be more than a few at this rate), this might have been RDM & company keeping the door open for a theatrical release.As has been posted earlier, he does have the Star Trek thing in his veins. Based on Rymer's comments, I can't help but think TPTB would've liked to follow up with a Star Trek-like string of hits at the box office.
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how Anders has become another oracle-type entity. I mean, it was bad enough that he had the cliche "memory jogged by head trauma", but how that set of circumstances - turned him into pretty much the same thing as was on that Cylons ship seems like a big stretch.
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Someone on one of the TBs here said that when 6 and Tigh's baby died Anders truend into the oracle simultaneously, as if the baby's soul got transferred to Anders' catatonic body. I really liked that idea, and yet they haven't explained any of that.
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in the latest episode aren't flashbacks. They're flash forwards. Count on it - somehow they are.
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Last! Save something for Friday!
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now or maybe just over.
hopefully no spoilers leak. -
Ahh, anti-Brit. It never gets old, does it Grimloch? While you are on the spot about RDM and Ace of Wands, as a Briton, I resent that you have to resort to such low-brow tactics to get somebody to pay attention to your little internet soapbox. Color me unimpressed.
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Nothing to do with being Patriotic, the guy called me a moron without engaging me in conversation. Why wouldn't I be offended? Listen, if you're not proud of where you're from, that's your affair and has nothing to do with me (although I'm a little confused as to why my pride in my country gives you thoughts of my parents having sex...) You have, however, just exemplified why Grimloch thinks Brits are morons, in which case I apologize to Mr. Grimloch, he had every right to believe that Ace of Wands was a moron.
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"According to Ron Moore, Inner Six 'was really there and was a messenger of a higher power.' "
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Of the Galaxy, the planet (Earth or Caprica?), and the Caprican shipyards gave me great hope of awesomeness to come. However it didn't really get there. Perhaps when viewed with next week's it will come together.
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I recommend listening to it, RDM debunks a popular fan theory.
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They are tying up the entire series so I think they are showing the characters in flashback so when we see where they end up it will have some sort of impact. It's just kind of like a recap, the writers are just reminding us who they used to be. I liked it I think when I rewatch the whole thing it will work better. Personally it's killing me not to have any answers yet.
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RDM said it in his most recent podcast.
The rumors posted earlier by the IMDb poster and TPR, and Armageddon Productions are therefore fan speculation.
As was revealed (again) in "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" Kara Thrace is HUMAN, and not a Hybrid, and not a Cylon.
Daniiel appears to be exactly what he was described to be in "No Exit": a relatively insignificant character in BSG's story. In Caprica, Daniel #7 will be a player, but for BSG purposes it looks like Daniel is unimportant. -
...is that Galactica will be trapped too close to the event horizon and by the time they pull themselves out, Hera will be all grown up or something. I dunno. There's a lot of potential in black holes (so long as they don't travel back in time, that would be retarded).
I hated how similar Caprica was to present day Earth. It doesn't matter that they're from Earth, they've gone through 1000s of years of history, shit would change. Just like today doesn't look like the 60s. I wasn't likely going to watch Caprica before, I absolutely won't be watching that shit now. RDM is old and washed up. Except for maybe the first season, this show hasn't come close to being as good as the final season of DS9. One or two decent episodes per season, does not a decent show make. This is easily the most pretentious show I've ever seen. And empty pretentiousness should not be confused with drama. I am so much more looking forward to the next episode of Lost than the second part of the BSG finale. And a BSG finale should be easily blowing away a mid season ep of another show. -
The exact quote was "morons from Britain," he used a plural. If he was just referring to you, he would have said something along lines of "a moron from Britain." So I assumed he was addressing all of us. Also, one of the other reasons I posted was b/c I am a RDM BSG fan (although the old series is a guilty pleasure), and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people who, for a number of years, continuously watch a show they don't care for, and criticize those who like the show. And I'm the one who is supposedly a moron?? "Waaaaaaaah, my girlfriend makes me watch this show." What's the matter? Have his testicles not descended yet that he's too pussy to find something else to do?
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Harsh, but I tend to agree, the more I think about it.
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Harsh, but I tend to agree, the more I think about it.
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An event horizon is the black hole's SURFACE or BOUNDARY of the region from which no light can escape. Because of the naked singularity, there is no event horizon and a ship could blunder into the black hole with no forewarning.That's what makes Adama's attack so dangerous and your idea of them getting pulled into the black hole a very cool one IMHO.
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IMO, the first third of the finale was well done. The juxtaposition of flashbacks with current story, especially flashbacks from an era we haven't seen, was an excellent way to demonstrate where the characters were before everything changed, as opposed to where they are now. And ultimately, where they are going. This reminds me of the TNG finale, but in a more subtle form of narrative than just shifting through time like Picard.
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"What's your national flag, a portrait of your copulating parents?."
Seriously, after reading more of this talkback I'm inclined to go and bitch about Heroes on the next talkback. But I won't, because I have mentioned just once or twice on here about why I have given it up. No big deal. No fuss. I have not seen the show this season and don't feel the need to become whiney about it.
That's how it's done kids.
Oh, and I didn't see one fat guy day. All day. Remarkable. -
Has there ever been any pay off to the tampering the Cylons did with Kara's inner workings on Caprica? Did I miss that? They seem to have reiterated with Baltar's analysis of her bloodwork that she isn't Cylon/is human so maybe she's been modified somehow to allow for human resurection? Still doesn't explain her brand-spanking new ship mind???
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Guessing that Racetrack has just discovered the REAL earth??!?
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The flashbacks IMO weren't well done, you said they were subtle, far too subtle to become as meaningful as they should have been. Too subtle to the point that lots of people saw it as " nice to see" or worse filler. I undestand there is a balance between subtle and blunt, RDM didn't meet this balance
However as some have speculated and I hope they are right these scenes will become meaningful when we see the second part of the final and if that's the case Daybreak will work better watching the three episodes in a row. -
There's a segment that just sums up how I've felt about the last couple of episodes... RDM is talking about they worked out this wonderful final arc for the end of the series and that he was pouring over it saying it was the most dense, deep, powerful plot and that he was having so much trouble finding the perfect way to bring it to the screen ( paraphrased of course ) until he finally had a realization.. "this is about the characters and not the story... the characters resolution will resolve the series"
At first I thought what he was saying made sense, but as I thought about it, I realized that but we're seeing that unfold right now...and it isn't working... we are *starving* for actual plot right now. This so far has been one long epilogue with no climax before it. The build up to this final episode has actually been nonexistent. The justification to attack the cylon base has not been properly done on screen. If getting Hera back is symbolic of something or has deeper meaning, we haven't been properly set up for this. ( perhaps its because Hera has been conveniently nearly discarded up until a few episodes ago... she's the ultimate mcguffin. )
Which reminds me, I think it was a sad betrayal of character to retroactively say Cally had time or the interest in an affair with Hot Dog... wtf. That was so poorly executed, and you know the sole purpose of this was because the writers wrote themselves into a corner when they made the chief a cylon.
I still love the show, but jesus it got so out of hand in season 3 on out... -
Gaeta.
I think that actor is very talented.
After "Blood on the Scales" it would have made sense, in keeping with the hybrid's prophecy that the final Cylon would claw towards the light, hungering for redemption that would only come in the howl of great suffering.
I think that Gaeta probably would have worked a little bit smoother than Ellen... given that she hasn't done much, and seeing how Jane Espensen gave Kate Vernon some of the worst lines of dialogue and must bizarre character arcs in the episode "Deadlock."
Seeing how Gaeta hated the Cylons and distrusted them so much that he rebelled against ADAMA-a father figure for Gaeta- Gaeta certainly would have had a lot to atone for. I wish they would have pursued that instead.
Don't get me wrong, I love the character Ellen Tigh, but I think that "Deadlock" sank most of the potential in bringing that character back. Now I rather wish Ellen was just the doused flame in Tigh's life. -
Then seeing the reveal/the resurrection of Gaeta after his execution Would have been very interesting when he would have returned to the fleet
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If you had said that before the reveal of Ellen I would have disagreed, but Gaeta and his suffering and transformation was an inspired story arc. It would have been perfect for him to have been the last cylon, and so much more valuable to the series. Ellen is a throw away. Her character hasn't "done" anything in these last few episodes except be cavil's tool, which we haven't even seen here realize yet.
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i always viewed gaeta as one of those useless characters that you just get used to. but suddenly i went from not caring about him at all to hating him and wanting him airlocked to feeling sorry for him and understanding where he was coming from. all in brilliant acting by alessandro. **best use of an airlock...callie tyrol**
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That's interesting - I didn't watch the special but that does make perfect sense. Although on the other hand they've sacrificed character for commentary and/or twists before - I'm not sure how seriously to take Moore's epiphany.But ultimately that makes me pretty sure that a show that has been largely about tackling "big ideas" and had one of the most specific, Gilligan-esque engines driving the overall arc is going to probably end in an unsatisfactory muddle. Hopefully he just meant that the plot issues were solved through character not abandoned for character. Oh yeah good point about Cally. I forgot about that.
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I saw "the Last Frakkin Special" and it wasn't that great really. I think RDM is starting to look like George Lucas.Anyway I love BSG but I would have to agree about the last few episodes I feel like we're starved for plot.
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I have to agree with a lot of the posters here about how muddled and pointless much of this last season have been. I've been rewatching the series in preparation for the finale and it's really bringing home how tight and gripping the show was. It was about the characters then, but it was also about the mythology and had great character moments that were genuine and heartfelt (the scene where Bill gives Lee the lighter before Lee goes to battle in that first season episode "The Hand of God") but it's gone SO FAR into "character" land at the expense of plot that I'm frankly not hopeful about the finale. This "epiphany" that Moore had - that it's about the characters - seems so obvious. It's always been about the characters but it was ALSO about plot. How the characters respond to the plot was such a big part of the writing. Now it's just the characters muddling along, unmoored from any plot. I blame a couple of things - Espensen's unwelcome influence and Moore being pulled away from the last few episodes by working on Caprica (which looks godawful, frankly) and the finale. When last week's episode started with the flashbacks I got so annoyed - I just know this week will spend about 2/3 on flashbacks that add NOTHING to the plot and only minimally to the characters (we really oughta know enough about them by now). The last 1/3 will be action that moves too quickly, like last week's decision to rescue Hera. I mean, really? All these people can be persuaded to go on a one-way mission to rescue the half-breed kid? Most people in the fleet still seem to hate the Cylons. Why the hell would they give a fuck about Hera? That's some seriously poor writing. Like I said, I'm not hopeful about this ending. I think the rescue from New Caprica and a few of the episodes after that were where BSG peaked. The writers really tipped their cards with the Big Four reveal at the end of S3 - it's clear they don't really have a direction, so they're using the "it's about the characters, stupid!" excuse.
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RDM debunked the fan speculation that Daniel is Starbuck's dad. This speculation should tell Moore that we're all starving for plot points and that when he (and the writers) throw in something at the last minute, we're going to treat it like it's important. The most recent podcast sounds like Moore viewed the Daniel thing as just a throwaway part of the mythology that we're all making too much out of. Well shouldn't that show him how lazy their writing has been? We're grasping at whatever we can because there hasn't been much to grab onto. It's like when Lucas threw in the "Oh yeah, Obi Wan, I want to teach you something Qui Gon taught me about how to live forever in the Force" moment at the end of the last Star Wars movie - lazy writing that, at the last moment, is designed to make a square peg into a round hole. The whole Daniel thing was thrown in to fix a plot hole (like the death of Tigh's baby, Callie and Hot Dog, etc). It shows these writers have had no idea where the show was going. We fans are spinning out more plot than the writers are and the Daniel speculation really shows that.
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I blame the writers strike.I think I've enjoyed the show more than a lot of people on here. I like the FF thing, I like the Cally thing, I like just about everything they've done except these last few episodes. We needed maybe one episode to set up the finally but thats it, instead we've got like 5 set-up episodes. In the imortal words of Tim & Eric "it's too much"
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Come on, man. You're one of the few who make sense on this TB, so please take note that I called the flashbacks subtle in comparison to TNG finale's similar device of portraying past present, and (presumably) the future path of the characters. Have I seen a real point to them other than that? Fuck nope. But we still have 2 hours and I have faith. For some of you I believe it is a defense mechanism to default to assuming the finale will disappoint. If you're right, you get to say "I fucking told you!". If you're wrong, you'll be pleasantly surprised. But then, it's not like any of you would admit you're wrong.
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Mar 18, 2009 11:00:23 AM CDT
There will loose ends on Friday, because of a potential BSG movi
by leafar the lost
Oh, I get it. I feel very stupid right now. I assumed that Ron Moore would give us a total mind fuck in the last 10 minutes of the show, but he isn't immune to money. A BSG movie (that we would have to pay money to see in a theatre) could make a lot of money in theory. HOWEVER, I wish that the story would get wrapped up this Friday. Maybe the Earth that they visited wasn't really Earth. I don't know. Maybe they find that out Friday, and the jounrey to the real Earth will continue. Maybe they go back to Caprica and the other colonies. If the threat from the Cylons is ended on Friday, then why can't they just go back to their bombed out homes and rebuild? Why can't they return to New Caprica? I will assume that all of the Evil Cylons will be killed, and they are now allies with the Good Cylons (plus the Final Five) so AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...MIND FUCK!
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will not be based on this series or feature the same cast and crew.
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"This speculation should tell Moore that we're all starving for plot points"--- No, it should tell Moore that you can't explain a plot hole away, you have to show it, have it notarized, swear to it's veracity in a court of law, and try on the bloody glove to show that your hand is too big to fit... otherwise, fan speculation will run rampant. Seriously though, people should have paid closer attention to the clues in the show and what RDM said.
We knew Kara was human because her blood had been tested by both humans and cylons and no one ever mentioned her having half-breed characteristics (easily seen with a blood test).
Also, no one ever gave a good explanation as to HOW Daniel being Kara's dad ever MADE ANY SENSE. I think it's just a "feel good" explanation (like Saddam having WMD... actually, I think the case for that had a lot more evidence behind it than Daniel being Starbuck's dad). How does Daniel being Kara's father explain her resurrection? How does it explain the pristine viper? How does it explain the missing Viper information? How does it explain the body and viper ending up on Earth? How does it explain Kara's memory of a green non-nuked Earth? How does it explain the final four honing in on the Viper during "Revelations"?
It didn't make any sense... people were making huge leaps of logic and ignoring continuity to make that fit. I don't blame RDM in the slightest... especially when he said that #7 was a throwaway character and hinted heavily that #7 is Daniel Graystone or made in his likeness.
"Well shouldn't that show him how lazy their writing has been?"----I don't know if that's fair. That plot hole has existed since the Sharon's were given a model # way back in Season 1. If the tradeoff is havingh to accept that Cavil killed one of the models, I can accept that and I don't blame the writers.
"Oh yeah, Obi Wan, I want to teach you something Qui Gon taught me about how to live forever in the Force"---- That was a huge plot point, though. That is what supposedly explains Obi-Wan's ghostly guidance throughout the series, as well as Yoda's and confirms for the audience- that Anakin was a good guy at the end and was accepted (although it was never shown HOW THE FUCK he learned that skill... it hust created a new plot hole and was entirely lame in logic and execution). I differentiate it from #7 because as of yet, Daniel has had no impact on the series other than serving to make Cavil seem more murderous.
"It shows these writers have had no idea here the show was going."--- You're not being fair. That plot hole was birthed in 2003. Do you really feel that a relatively insignificant detail has to be scripted out four years in advance? I really hate the "obviously they had no idea where the story was going when they started the show back in 2003" bitching. Sounds like they've never tried to write anything (certainly not with a room full of writers, anyways).
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Thank you for having the patience to explain what these naysayers should have the ability to rationalize themselves. Unfortunately, many of them want the answers handed to them on a platter. Gods forbid we must actually see past the initial frustration of not knowing.
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When Baltar starts using the term "the Final Five" when he's on the base star. Then everyone else starts using it. It's really not a plot hole unless one takes it literally. I thought it was figurative (like the "final five to be revealed" not the "final model numbers of cylons"). The idea that Boomer couldn't be #8 and still have a "final five" didn't become a plot hole until the third season. And yeah, putting new threads/plot points into the final act is usually poor writing. Not always, but in the case of BSG, which was so taut in the beginning, these "connecting the dots" plot points seem kind of lazy to me. But see, Tai Pan, I'm only talking about what the show means TO ME and how these plot points seem lazy TO ME. I'm not wrong and you're not wrong. So arguing about whether my assessment is fair is kind of irrelevant.
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No, you're not wrong, you're right. There is such a thing as a plot hole, there is such a thing as inconsistent characterization, or plot contrivances, etc etc. How important these things are to you may vary, but they are there. And there's a whole lot of real estate between "plot points spoonfed" and
"flawed storytelling", comrades. -
Of course the original secret of the series has been utterly abandoned. I guess you could call what Cavil has been up to " a plan".. we'll see.
The number #1/Daniel plot never really bothered me. If we'd gone on another season, we would have had time to explore that better.
The Obi Wan "live forever" thing is a perfect example of overexplaining. I disagree with Tai Pan.. that was not a major plot point. The act of "jedi ascension" or whatever you want to call it, was important indeed. That you need to explain that it is a process that needs to be directly taught is hamfisted. We took it as a given when watching Starwars originally that there are amazing things a jedi can learn, and wisdom of the jedi was important. We don't need to have that spoon fed to us. Alot of what I don't like about SW:Ep1,2,3 is because of that. C3PO origins are another example... we don't need to know. It's pointless.
Anyway We've managed to keep this TB alive and on topic almost the whole week, so I will respectfully quit talking about SW and get back to griping about my favorite TV show.
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and it will happen again. Referring to, of course, a brilliant TV show creating a passionate fanbase which argues over the direction of the show. We can only pray to Gaeta's stump that we get another show that deserves such enthusiasm on either side of the spectrum. One thing the negative nuggets need to remember when they say "this show sucks", is that if it did actually suck, we wouldn't be talking about it at all....like Heroes.
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I believe explaining the force was the most important thing Lucas could have done. Really what an increadable concept, the force lives in the blood of Jedi, wow! I'll never get tired of that. I'm suprised they have not come out with a toy that messures your midiclorian count or however you spell it.
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"Pray to Gaeta's stump"
lol. awesome.
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"I'm not wrong and you're not wrong. So arguing about whether my assessment is fair is kind of irrelevant."---It's not ridiculous if you come to the conclusion that you were being unfair. I realize you are writing out of opinion, but opinions change given new information and different perspectives. Unless you are naturally stubborn and obstinate, of course.
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Shouldn't have sidetracked us with that Star Wars reference. Sorry dudes, didn't mean to send us down that blind alley.
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"The Obi Wan "live forever" thing is a perfect example of overexplaining. I disagree with Tai Pan.. that was not a major plot point. The act of "jedi ascension" or whatever you want to call it, was important indeed. "---We're arguing at cross purposes... maybe I didn't explain myself clear enough.
I don't disagree with what you said at all. I feel the explanation was unnecessary. THey could have left that out and no one would have cared, simply assuming that's what happens when Jedi die. -
When Qui Gon did not disappear when he was killed at the end of episode I it became a big deal. Everyone wanted to know why he did not disappear. Then we had to wait til the end of episode 3 for that stupid explaination from Yoda. Point is it could have all been avoided if he just disappeared at the end of episode I, the whole thing was just a waist.Enough of that rant, can't wait for the BSG finally.
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Sorry man, for not understanding what you wrote before. I totally agree with you.
OK back to BSG talk...
Anyone want to take any bets on who will be the last person shown on camera when the series ends?
My money is on Adama with a space helmet on, floating into a dark abyss saying "it's full of stars"
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Thought about this as a possible ending due to the fact we have not heard to much about the ability of the skinjobs to enter a shared reality where everything seems real.. thinking of the house with the Chief and Boomer. Wondering if by the end of the battle with Cavill, the Galactica is sucked into the Black Hole, to float forever in limbo. The crew then decide to enter this shared reality at a time before the fall of Caprica, maybe using the girl as a conduit to allow all to connect... But, due to this shared reality being made from their memories, everything is repeated again, including reentering the shared reality again in the Black Hole.... circles within circles... mindbending finale is satisfied.
This may satisfy the 'what has happened before will happen again' and premonitions.... and also may explain the Head 6's - 6 has entered the shared reality with the rest of the Galactica crew and can advise Baltar, but is also there as her past self... the one that can be seen by the rest of the crew as the past repeats itself.
Also, even though time is looping for the Galactica crew, time passes normally for the rest of the fleet/universe, allowing continuations/sequels in the future, without the feeling that eveything is in vain as time will just loop again.
Don't know how Starbuck's return comes into this however... so this may invalidate the above.. oh well. -
i have to admit i only started watching this show during the 3rd season when i stumbled across it one night. i had heard about the show but since i was never a fan of cheesy far out there sci fi (although i love a good cheesy natural disaster flick)i passed on it. thank the gods for a boring stay at home friday night or i would have never of spent 3 days meticulously watching the 1st 2 seasons and then catching up on season 3 on the internet of this amazing shows. yeah it has it's downsides. yeah there were times i wanted someone to put starbuck out of her misery. there were times when i couldnt figure out my left from my right. but as we get closer to the finale all i can say is who gives a frak? this has still been one of the best shows that has ever been written, directed, acted, scored, special effected (not an actual word) that i have ever had the priviledge of viewing. the mythology of the show wasnt what pulled me in. this has happened before and this will happen again...cheap rip off of those who dont learn from their past are doomed to repeat it. i dont care if hera is special. i dont care if they dont wrap the show up in some nice tiny bow and hand it to us on a silver planet. i fell in love with this show because of the richness that is portrayed in being "human".
**to know thy enemy is to know thyself** -
1. Grace Park looked even yummier than she does on the show.
2. I had forgotten that Tricia Helfer was not really a great actor before the show started, she has been really good.
3. Eddie Olmos was talking about being the last to fly off the Galactica does that dispel any of the wormhole/ event horizon things??
4. Was thinking the whole time, besides Lost, which will end next year there are no great epic shows going or ready to replace it, hope something good comes out soon otherwise TV could soon really suck -
The cast of BSG spoke at the UN, for a very serious ( and 2 hour long ) talk about race relations, sucide bombers and more, but one particular part seems to me to reveal a pretty big spoiler.... one that has been talked about a million times here, though so you won't be "shocked" if it's true:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08VCkyG_C2s
(mind the gap )
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