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David Hayter has a letter for you about WATCHMEN!
AN OPEN LETTER FROM A WATCHMEN SCREENWRITER So it has been five months since I saw my first rough cut of WATCHMEN, and eight days since the premiere of the film I've been working on since late in the year 2000. The reviews are out -- Some outstanding, others rankly dismissive, which can be frustrating for the people involved, (though I can only speak for myself,) because I firmly believe that WATCHMEN, the novel, must be read through more than once to even have the faintest grip on it. And I believe the film is the same. I've seen it twice now, and despite having run the movie in my head thousands of times, my two viewings still don’t' allow me to view the film with the proper distance or objectivity. Is it Apocalypse Now? Is it Blade Runner? Is it Kubrick, or Starship Troopers? I don’t know yet. All I know is that I had a pretty amazing experience the two times I've seen it. And both viewings produced remarkably different experiences. The point is, I have listened for years, to complaints from true comic book fans, that "not enough movies take the source material seriously." "Too many movies puss out," or "They change great stories, just to be commercial." Well, I f***ing dare you to say any one of those things about this movie. This is a movie made by fans, for fans. Hundreds of people put in years of their lives to make this movie happen, and every one of them was insanely committed to retaining the integrity of this amazing, epic tale. This is a rare success story, bordering on the impossible, and every studio in town is watching to see if it will work. Hell, most of them own a piece of the movie. So look, this is a note to the fanboys and fangirls. The true believers. Dedicated for life. If the film made you think. Or argue with your friends. If it inspired a debate about the nature of man, or vigilante justice, or the horror of Nixon abolishing term limits. If you laughed at Bowie hanging with Adrian at Studio 54, or the Silhouette kissing that nurse. Please go see the movie again next weekend. You have to understand, everyone is watching to see how the film will do in its second week. If you care about movies that have a brain, or balls, (and this film's got both, literally), or true adaptations -- And if you're thinking of seeing it again anyway, please go back this weekend, Friday or Saturday night. Demonstrate the power of the fans, because it'll help let the people who pay for these movies know what we'd like to see. Because if it drops off the radar after the first weekend, they will never allow a film like this to be made again. In the interests of full disclosure, let me also point out that I do not profi t one cent from an increase in box office, although an increase in box office can add to the value of the writers' eventual residual profits from dvd and tv sales. But I'm not saying it for money. I'm saying it for people like me. I'm saying it for people who love smart, dark entertainment, on a grand, operatic scale. I'm talking to the Snake fans, the Rorschach fans, the people of the Dark Knight. And hey, if you hated the film, if you think we committed atrocities, or literary mistakes of a massive, cephalopodic nature. If the movie made you a little sick to your stomach, or made you feel bad about your life. If you hated it for whatever reason, that's cool too. I'm not suggesting you risk gastro-intestinal distress just for the sake of risky filmmaking. But if you haven't seen it yet? Well, I'll just say this... It may upset you. And it probably will upset you. And all along, we really meant it to. Because face it. All this time...You there, with the Smiley-face pin. Admit it. All this time, you’ve been waiting for a director who was going to hit you in the face with this story. To just crack you in the jaw, and then bend you over the pool table with this story. With its utterly raw view of the darkest sides of human nature, expressed through its masks of action and beauty and twisted good intentions. Like a fry-basket full of hot grease in the face. Like the Comedian on the=2 0Grassy Knoll. I know, I know... You say you don't like it. You say you've got issues. I get it. And yet... You'll be thinking about this film, down the road. It'll nag at you. How it was rough and beautiful. How it went where it wanted to go, and you just hung on. How it was thoughtful and hateful and bleak and hilarious. And for Jackie Earle Haley. Trust me. You'll come back, eventually. Just like Sally. Might as well make it count for something. David Hayter
Readers Talkback
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Seems like a desperate ploy to get a huge second weekend
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read the graphic novel, saw the movie, but we can't escape the fact that studios exist to make a profit; it's not the hard core Watchmen people that need to suuport the movie: they have and they will. It's the casual movie fan that makes blockbusters
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Wow bro wow
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ouch.<p> That's cold man. But also genius.<p>
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couldn't help myself. but to be fair, no matter how good the film is, the screenwriter is obviously WAY to attached to it to make any kind fair observation about it.
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Yes?
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...LOL! Now that's funny.
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But I think he's right
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Word of mouth is killing this movie. This movie is going to sink in week 2.
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I don't care how good a movie may or may not be. I don't really want to read a letter from one of the guys who wrote it explaining how fucking awesome and emotionally jarring it is. I know he's far from the first person involved in the film industry to talk-up a project they've worked on but still....this is just kind of weird.
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March 12, 2009, 6:01 p.m. CST
If it's as good as I hope, I'll definitely see it again.
by Mr Nicholas
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I haven't read the graphic novel yet, but I will after seeing the movie. Thank you Mr. Hayter for such a well thought out letter. Even though I work at a movie theater and can see the movie for free, I will once again be heading to the nearest IMAX to watch it this weekend with friends who haven't seen it yet. Thank you for turning a highly revered story into a solid script that is just as epic. Thank you for giving screenwriters like me hope for our own "balls to the wall" projects that we one day hope to make.
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Was ooohing, aahing and shoud i-ing. I'm in, Tomorrow night. Row D, Seat 6. I hate popcorn. (I was going anyway, but ain't it nice to see some passion...?)
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...perhaps the problem with the flick is that the adaptation lacked authenticity, but it was TOO authentic. Moore has said repeatedly that he chooses the graphic novel medium for the inherent benefits that said medium can exude. Adaptations then, by nature, must properly translate the effective parts of one medium by creating new techniques to replicate the effect (i.e. Moore's use of symmetry --> fluid movement of camera [which the film lacked; the frames always felt like panels and the actors seemed like sardines stuck in a tin can]). BUT, despite all this, I still liked the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it, just didn't love it as much as I hope I would.
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Already planning on a second viewing this weekend, and looking forward to it.
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I just think its odd. This is a movie that a lot of people have a lot invested in. Now I spoke to a bunch of friends who saw the flick this weekend (some have read the novel and some havent) and most of them were in agreement. It wasn't great. Now I am not saying it wasn't good; im simply saying that it didn't live up to my expectations as a fan. I mean I have to be honest.. I wanted to see the squid. Now this letter or whatever... is actually kind of annoying to me because it just reeks of "oh shit, people didn't like it and they're complaining... quick figure out a way to get more people in weekend two" I don't like the smell of it.
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Minus the good opening weekend.
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This isn't going to end well. Personally I loved the film, but I was disappointed by the changes to the ending. Still, I definitely plan to see it again and I'd preorder the Director's Cut DVD now if I could.
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The farther i get away from the source material the more i enjoy the movie. To the filmakers credit... movies are a collaboritive effort, whereas when you read a book..you alone are the director, screenwriter, cinematographer, etc. yes it's the old argument of books being better than the movie. Snyder is not the only force behind this movie. If you guys think Zack Snyder was the only person making decisions on this flick you are wrong... he had to CONVINCE everyone to get this movie as close as it does to source material.
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I am sooo going to see Last House on the Left. And I didn't see Watchmen last weekend. And the Dark Knight gave dark comic adaptations clout. I don't want Snyder getting any. I think he sucks.
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This letter reads like a soccer mom trying to get the coach to start her son.
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...before Zack made this that is, the trailer was the first thing i'd seen regarding WATCHMEN.</p> My favourite films are A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, THE SHINING & DOWNFALL amongst others.......and I became a fan of WATCHMEN last Friday.</p> I didn't think it was perfect, but it made me want to read more, so I bought the novel, and I've not put it down since.</p> Now not only am I going to see it again, I'm very much looking forward to the extended.
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Mr. Hayter here is honest about what he wants and why. Can't blame that. And well, I intend to see it a second time coming week after I saw it opening day. Becaust it's not perfect and the ending of the comic is better, but it's still Watchmen. I mean I saw LOTR a zillion times, although it didn't have the Scouring of the Shire and dozen other major or minor hiccups, but it still was fucking LOTR. So count me in Mr. Hayter.
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I think he has a point, although the money comes into play, if movies like these are not supported they will not be made. If that happens we might end up with a watered down version of "Y: The Last Man" and more crappy Fantastic Four and X-men sequels.
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It isn't the die hard fans job to make movies like this blockbusters. It's the people MAKING the movies job to create some thing compelling enough to to get fans and NON-fans alike asses in the seats. Fans who like the movie WILL see it more than once. Beyond multiple viewing and perhaps talking it up (IF they liked it) it really falls on the material and the those involved who MADE the movie to deliver. Dark Knight made half a billion, so darker and more adult comic book movies will still be made. At least that's my view.
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I love David Hayter. Really, I do. But this does come off as sort of desperate. The reasons I won't be seeing this movie is not because of his script. It's because of the music. It's because of Malin Ackerman. It's because everything, besides Rorschach, felt dull and flat. I loved the comic. And the script...I understand the changes. But that doesnt change the fact that the movie lacked soul. It doesnt change the horrible aging makeup. It doesnt change the lack of Hollis Mason's death, or the comic kids, or yes...the squid. "They change great stories, just to be commercial." Isn't that exactly why the squid isnt in it? Because, while the new ending worked, I still felt myself wondering why the Russians and the US got all buddy buddy when the American Superman fucked everything up. I just...it wasnt a bad movie. It wasnt a good movie. It was a movie, and it was there, and it had cool parts. Much like 300. But this is not a movie I'm going to spend another $10 to see, though I might buy the extended cut on BR just to see if it changes the experience for me. Who knows, I might love it later. But this letter from Hayter, whom I really like, comes off as a ploy for bigger box office more than a rational argument.
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Even if second weekend is not strong this is destined for cult greatness. Will get better the more times it is seen. Remember Apocolypse Now opening? Horrible opening weekend. But the legacy endures. Bitches.
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Arrogant prick. Blade Runner? Ha! Even evoking Kubrick is so, so, so...just incredibly deluded.
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Jesus Hayter, calm the fuck down.
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If this movie bombs studios will be less likely to take a chance BUT also the movie should take it's course. If it's good enough to see again people will go if not then they won't. Unfortunately fanboys are not like gaggles of 13 year old girls cooing over Leo in the Titanic (way overrated) and they will not go 10 times and keep the movie in the theaters. They'll fret over every minutia or giz over every splendor but lets face it they won't go multiple times.
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and don't ever evoke Kubrick ever again. He made 2001; you wrote The Scorpion King.
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Brilliant source material turned into average-poor film. Who cares? Yes I think it's good that the director and writers were allowed their creative freedoms, but sometimes creative people need to be punched in the mouth and told: "It's too fucking long! Look at all these flashbacks you munchkins!!" or they get carried away.
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Brilliant source material turned into average-poor film. Who cares? Yes I think it's good that the director and writers were allowed their creative freedoms, but sometimes creative people need to be punched in the mouth and told: "It's too fucking long! Look at all these flashbacks you munchkins!!" or they get carried away.
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comparing himself to Kubrick... arrogant fuck.
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I take that back: a lot of people DO give a shit. Just not me I guess. A lot of people I know did like it. I just don;t think this movie will be remembered as one of the greats. I supppose time will tell.
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March 12, 2009, 6:15 p.m. CST
Please go see my film as the numbers are dropping off a cliff
by metaluna
This is embarassing. Shame it'll never make it's money back but hey, at least you comic book nerds got a film you think you deserve. Shame there aren't enough of you out there for it to make a profit. Truly a desperate measure when a writer has to come on here and beg you to go see his film again. Very telling.
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...I'd like to thank you for a valiant effort. I had a few problems with the movie but dammit, you guys came thhhiiiiiissss close. I eagerly await the directors cut.
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was boring. But I found the source material boring.
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I mean... Plant.
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Hell, I'd see the movie again JUST to watch Silhouette kissing the nurse, and I bought each issue of Watchmen when it came out. Loved it!
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March 12, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST
White Chicks was like Blade Runner on its second viewing
by Domi'sInnerChild
The public just did give a movie that took risks like that a chance.
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March 12, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST
"must be read through more than once to even have the faintest g
by Amy Chasing
No. No it doesn't. Sure you may not get the author's full intent on one reading, but not even having the faintest grip... sorry, Watchmen is not Joyce's Ulysses - and even that you'll understand what the author is going for on your first reading. <P> I argue that any form of media that an observer can't understand the point of or the bulk of in one sitting isn't good media. Media is supposed to communicate. Is Hayter saying that Watchmen doesn't? <P> As for his open letter - maybe a major Hollywood studio won't make a film like this again. Plenty of other film makers in the world that will.
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...is trying to make you drink the coolaid! F*ck you! The film sucks! Lemmings!
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I agree wholeheartedly with his thoughts....I commend him for loving the Watchmen so much that he risks writing a letter that he will obviously be criticized for. And he is right on all points.... I came out of the movie theater loving and hating the movie, just like I felt about Last Temptation of Christ. But then I realized that is exactly how I and all of us should feel about the movie. It IS dark...it IS disturbing...but it IS blatantly honest about the "hero concept". Kudos to Zack Snyder and Team for taking this risk and making a film that will make us THINK for all time. Whether you Love it or Hate it...It's the WATCHMEN. I'll be seeing it this weekend.... PEACE.....
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Fox keeps putting out shit movies cause we keep going to see them. Whether you liked it or not....if Watchmen doesn't do well, other studios won't be taking anymore risks either, and you can SURE AS HELL expect MORE X-MEN 3s and Ghost Riders and Elektras and PG-13 Die Hards to be coming down the pipeline. He's trying to save what little greatness is left in Hollywood........don't fuck it up.
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I think some of you need to read the letter again, he doesn't compare himself to Kubrick. I don't see where he says "I am like Kubrick!" You're finding things that are not there and that's how the nastiness begins.
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The Scorpion King = Sh*t!
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Not too shabby
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I tried but i couldn't enjoy it.
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Watchmen is ACTION PACKED!! THRILL RIDE!! BLAH BLAH BLAH. . . The average movie-goer is expecting something quite different than what they're going to see. . . and the ensuing word of mouth (which will be horrible) must be blamed squarely on the studio's dishonest marketing. Made by fans. . . for fans. . . but marketed by the same tired assholes.
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...I want the movie to do well as a step on the path to comics ("graphic novels" is a phrase I hate - it implies "comics" are somehow less worthy of consideration as art) being taken seriously. BUT I'm also with Hitler on the Squid issue. But at least David Hayter (damn that guy has a GREAT CV) is taking the time to talk to the fans and that's more than most ppl do. I'll wait for the the 4DVD set with "...BLACK FREIGHTER" and the all-important alternative ending, which you KNOW they'll film in time for the release date. That is all.
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I'm surprised. I liked it a lot. I've already seen it twice.
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This letter has been online and scooped by sites like Rotten Tomatoes for days now. I remember when AICN was where you'd go to get scoops first..... this is days late.
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Do NOT compare it to Blade Runner, hippie!
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I always thought that being a script writer meant you had some grasp on how things should be written. It seems I was wrong!<p>"Because face it. All this time...You there, with the Smiley-face pin. Admit it."<p>Huh?<p>"Like the Comedian on the=2 0Grassy Knoll. I know, I know..."<p>What?<p>"If you care about movies that have a brain, or balls, (and this film's got both, literally), or true adaptations -- And if you're thinking..."<p>Where did those two dashes come from? And then you decided to just start a new sentence?<p>It's a bit like Christopher Nolan making a Youtube video to tell us how great his new movie is, except the Youtube clip has shoddy editing and is out of focus.<p>Jesus fucking Christ. I don't know about if a Comedian died tonight, but my belief in Hollywood scriptwriters certainly fucking did.
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Who cares? The movie was good but there is no frakking way I am paying to see it twice. I am not gonna spend 12 bucks to see any movie more than once. What a d-bag!
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March 12, 2009, 6:30 p.m. CST
GOOD $$$ during the week...it will top out at 130M domestic!
by ABking
David, will that be a success for you?
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I felt so ashamed watching this... what a soulless mess, virtually nothing has any impact. Terrible casting, AWFUL and just pitiful use of music (even good songs like Watchtower), that stupid fire rescue scene just sums it all up... ahhh just make it go away. People who worked on this did a bad thing... please don't make movies anymore, thanks!
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Watchmen is not Blade Runner, Kubrick or Apocalypse Now. Its Howard the Duck.
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because collectively, we would all much prefer for Hollywood to crank out retarded schlock like Transformers, X-Men 3, Fantastic Four, etc.
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Which is that the success of Watchmen lead down a path to a certain type of product. Who knows where we come out? If Alien wasn't a success would we have ever gotten the Thing Remake, Without Halloween would be have Friday the 13th? Without Silence of the Lambs would we have Seven? Without Hellraiser there never would have been Nightbreed.
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and I dare say so did yours. Randomly amping the violence and sex early in the movie just for the sake of holding an "R" rating while removing it from the climax (where it would have had a strong emotional impact) was just short sited, sophomoric, and pandering to the lowest common denominator. Your third act was anemic.
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Did we see the same fucking movie? Did you even attend the showing, or were you in the hallway rubbing one out on a G.I. Joe poster for 3 hours?
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If you want to see movies like Watchmen, then support them. Hollywood loves to play copycat and will mimic movies that are successful. For better or worse, even if you prefer the squid, the movie got so much right that few other directors would have been able to successfully lobby for. And if Hayter is reading this, I actually prefer the movie ending. I'm curious however what Hayter's take is.<p>If the story is meant to have resolution and a protagonist, then is it Ozy? Did he supposedly do right by performing the lesser evil? If so, the entire premise of the movie seems flawed given Russia and the US both decided to begin disarming nukes on their own. If the point is that no one is right, and everyone is a facist, then that story has some merit, but that is pretty fucked up.<p>You can tell a story with no protagonist, but do you want to?
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Bring on Star Trek.
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How did you register your username on AICN? If I try to register a new talkback username it tells me I'm unauthorised to view this webpage, and has for a long time - way before the Bale Out. What magic do you possess that I don't?
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have all been on line. I have not talked to anyone face to face that did not like it. I know they are out there but I have not met any. People at work said they loved it and planned on seeing it again. Can't make everyone happy. Fuck it, I'm happy!
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Too bad the studios will mistake poor marketing and a mixed film for mere a niche audience.<p> Might also be good for the fucked up studio system to recognize that Watchmen is a unique story, it's not superhero, it's not action, it's not sci-fi, it's not something that can be easily pigeonholed, and as such, there's nothing else like it to hang on the success or failure of this particular film.
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I did the right thing, didn't I? With the adaptation I mean. It all worked out in the end. 20 years from now you'll all realize it, right? I hope you geeks would understand, unlike... Wait, don't go!
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I thought it was doing well? Was I wrong?
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"at least you comic book nerds got a film you think you deserve"<p>Fuck you. You're on a fucking website devoted to geek shit like the new Wolverine movie, Battlestar Galactica and constant coverage of Watchmen. And yet you decide to have a go at "comic book geeks". Well, you're on a fucking talkback devoted to a movie based on a comic book. You're in no position to attack people because they enjoyed the graphic novel. Hold your breath and count to five billion. Slowly.
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Showing real brains and balls, if I may, wouldn't be to think that making the film needlessly and excessively graphic in both the sex and gore factor makes it more "adult". I'm thinking of both the sex scene which looked like it had more in common with the shows in Times Square during the 80's than the tasteful, two-panel, shadowed scene from the novel.<br></br><br></br>Or, showing a man's arms cut off, when there's no purpose served by the story to see it done explicitly, when even in the novel, we only were shown an implied act. The Dark Knight had bone breaking violence, but Nolan understood that we didn't need to see bone poking through clothing to get the proper effect, and he didn't have to compromise when it came to making a mature film by not showing that, or showing Harvey Dent show his love to Rachael Dawes by having them explicitly bump and grind in ways that made you feel like a peeping Tom for just being witness to it.<br></br><br></br>Simply making the film more graphic does not make this a more mature film. I would love to see films grow up, but due to the fact that in these circumstances and a few others sprinkled throughout the film, I feel it trying to appeal to my baser nature, not my maturity. If Mr. Snyder is taking notes, this should be bullet point number one.<br></br><br></br>There are some more technical issues that I have with the film as well. It seems to me that what's really being said here is that taking the source material seriously means adhering to it's structure, whether it works as well in the format or not. There is a long stretch in Watchmen the movie where it desperately needed something to break up the constant flow of information, something a book can do which a movie cannot. We can put the book down and pick it up again later, or we can re-read a line or two that require more reflection. Can't do that in a movie. This film needed some re-arrangement of scenes from the book in order to keep it consistently involving from beginning to end.<br></br><br></br>That said, the film, on the whole, still works in many respects. It's just that when the director tried to impart his own stamp on the material, it detracted from the experience, and in some of the places where he remained utterly faithful, it was in the places that didn't translate well in a literal sense. Nobody is saying to compromise in conveying the meaning, ideas and spirit of the source material, but it just felt that the director didn't know where or what was appropriate to adhere to it and where changes would enhance or detract from that goal.<br></br><br></br>I apologize to Mr. Hayter, but upon leaving the theater, I did not feel compelled to re-visit this in it's current state. Perhaps I will catch the extended version to see if any of my structural concerns were addressed (but I'm not holding my breath).
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I like to bitch about the REAL crap like Transformers, X3, Fantastic Four and complain that these films make tons of money and keep getting sequels and I also like to bitch about how Hollywood never produces anything cerebral like V for Vendetta and Watchmen after being let down that the film didn't make me jizz in my pants.
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That is pretty sad. A writer begging people to go see his movie, pretending it is for the art form. What a load of blue dinks...
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Looks like the talkback user registration is operational again. Let the new-user-creation-confusion commence!
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Watchmen isn't perfect. But it's the type of movie I like to see. No good can come from letting movies like this fail at the box office.
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...but i won't pay for it. I appreciate the movie, but i don't think im gonna drop 12 bones to see it again.
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I have no idea. Try turning your computer on and off three times, and then pour cough mixture into the DVD tray. It might work.
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March 12, 2009, 6:44 p.m. CST
BTW Hayter, it DID puss out and get changed to go commercial
by JT Kirk
You dare us to say it? That's exactly what you did with that crapass third act! C'mon now, whether or not you loyally portrayed the first 2/3rds (and that's arguable), the last act totally does what you're fucking claiming. It does puss out, it does change the material for commercialism, and it doesn't take the source serious enough to trust that overchoreographed, slo-mo fight scenes and feel-good endings setting up sequels aren't better than what it's about. <p>None of that is why it's not getting better reviews and word of mouth though, it failed there because the overall execution has its share of problems - problems in the edit, problems in pacing, problems with acting, problems with conveying emotions, problems translating comic storytelling to cinematic storytelling. I applaud everybody who wanted to make this movie, you did a good job, but by not doing a BETTER job (and that falls heavily with the screenplay and directing and producing, if we are being honest), you also failed the material.
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People get banned for comments like that. Watch yourself, asshole.
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March 12, 2009, 6:48 p.m. CST
I Loved It, & Even I Think Many of the Criticisms Are Valid
by LaserPants
I was planning on seeing it in IMAX this weekend anyways, so, yeah. <br><br>In terms of the ending, I think the Doc Manhattan = Klaatu actually makes more sense, but the ball that really got dropped was the lack of the 6 page apocalypse spash...
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*Tear*
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to make it more commerical and dumbed down. Rorschach becomes the good guy when the other good guys run around committing brutal murder just because there hasn't been an action scene in 10 minutes...
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Look, your movie all right, and while I can dig where you're coming from on studios coughing up enough dough to take a chance on a risky movie, "Watchmen" ain't it. I dug the comic, and while the movie is faithful, it's too 2-dimensional about the whole thing. Someone who hadn't read the book first would come into "Watchmen" bewildered and leave just as. It's got nothing to do with the material being "too brainy" and everything to do with pandering too hard to a small segment of the audience, who, as has been proven time and again, are going to be bitchy little girls about any niggling changes you've made, and slam the movie no matter what. So, you're fucked coming and going. Better off putting your own personal spin on the material, truncating it a great deal, or simply not filming it. Yeah, it looks like "Watchmen" but it doesn't feel like "Watchmen" because it has all the depth of an old Western set: The saloon may look like a saloon head on, but get a little closer to it and it's just a bunch of 2 x 4s propped up on stilts. Characters and scenes couldn't breathe because there wasn't enough time to develop them. Like it or not, that's what comics can do. That's what novels can do. Films, unless changes are made, can't.
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March 12, 2009, 6:51 p.m. CST
I've always been in two minds about having a computer support
by Amy Chasing
business called Have You Tried Turning It Off & On Again. I like the name, but I'd lose three quarters of my business if clients just did what the name suggests.
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I watched the film again last night for the second time. My first viewing was Thursday at midnight in IMAX. After that first viewing I wasn't sure how I felt about the film. I noticed many of the "issues" most people are having with the film: bad aging makeup, questionable acting, too many flashbacks, pacing problems, new ending, etc. All I can say is that after my second viewing, many of those things didn't matter as much and I enjoyed the film that much more. I had read the GN a number of times and was very familiar with the material. The problem I think the film is having is that many of us were TOO familiar with the source material. We had waited years for this film to be made and we went into our first viewing looking for ANYTHING that didn't sit right. We were overly critical. We went in LOOKING for problems. See it again, knowing what the flaws are, and just try to enjoy it as a film. You may surprise yourself with your reaction. I know I did.
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..and got it wrong. Period. Doesn't matter how much you got right - you are judged on the the whole thing and someone dropped the ball big time. Missed the whole point the original material and the reactions are appropriate. Don't come in here and tell us to support the damn thing when you are the guys who slapped fans and even people who have no idea what WATCHMEN is by altering the ending when there was no reason at all to do this. Whoever was responsible for just that one change should be singled out. And for the record - everyone is going on about how good the film looks - and how visionary Zach is with this and 300...Well you know what? That's all LARRY FONG. Same with 300. Give that guy the credit. He didn't get the credit when he basically created Tarsem's look as well...so give it to him here. If you liked the way Watchmen looked - credit Larry - story-wise - well that's Zach and the writers fault. You guys missed a huge opportunity.
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hahahaah, dumb bitches deserve to get raped! I GET IT! haahahahahah!
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They're bumming. Really, how is Gran Torino raking in all this cash? I mean I really dig Clint films and Torina was decent but 143 million dollars and counting? Heh. That's just wild. <br> <br> Can't believe I just reposted this.
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If Solid Snake says it, it must be done.
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Although I think many of your criticisms are valid, that was NOT a lighter ending; I think the tone was virtually the same. The only difference, aside from the sad lack of the 6 page splash and the bodies piled high, is the Doc M = Klaatu ending, which, lets face it, is just as ludicrous as the Squid ending, BUT, it makes more narrative sense in terms of Docs character arc.<br><br> The argument that the Squid would bring people together, but the Doc M would not doesn't really make sense. They're both ludicrous plans that probably would work in real life, that did. <br><br>Further, the argument that the world would immediately blame the US doesn't necessarily bare out either because, as is established in the film, Doc M makes it quite clear to the world that he doesn't want to be associated with it anymore, including the US, before he splits for Mars. Several weeks later, he attacks the ENTIRE Earth -- every major city, INCLUDING the New York in the US. Then Nixon made a statement to the world; a gesture of solidarity against a shared threat, and the world united against the shared threat. Its no more difficult to accept then the Squid having the same effect.
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It wasn't changed for commercial success, because frankly having a giant squid tear shit up might have helped things commercially, but it wouldn't make sense in the story unless you set it up properly, which means a very long movie. When you adapt to film, you have to adapt to film.<p>And I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The film's ending is better. It makes more sense. It adds more meaning to the characters. It seems like a much more logical conclusion to everything that preceded it. And it resolves things better.<p>Dr. Manhattan did care about people, and thusly he was hurt by the notion he may have given cancer to people close to him. He was hurt that he couldn't make his relationship work with Laurie. He tried to tell himself that he didn't care about humans, and that he couldn't make a difference. When he attempts to save the day, he discovers that he has been used to kill others. There is emotional weight in the hero trying to save the day, but eventually serving to destroy them unwittingly. Doesn't that PERFECTLY sum up what the book stands for? No other character serves as a "superhero" so much as Dr. Manhattan. And his involvement gives him all that much more reason to leave, resolving the conundrum of "God" on Earth.
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You could've made a blueballs joke, but you just had to go for the rape. Don't you know that there are decent, kindhearted children who read Aint it Cool, who have never seen a herpes sore, or ejaculated upon anything, or maybe even lack pubic hair. And yet you have to rub their faces in rape. That's beneath the conduct of someone who is a Top Gun screenwriter and imaginary covert ops hero, and you know it.
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suck it, hayter! that is some embarrassing shit...GO SEE THE FUCKING MOVIE! GO! GO! NOW! <p>christ, we get it....and by the way, your movie ain't Blade Runner and Kubrick's name belongs nowhere in your letter.
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The new ending was pretty much set up in one of the first scenes in the movie, in that TV political "discussion" the woman talks about how Dr. Manhattan may be feared by all countries, not just the Russians.
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It has nothing to do with the lack of squid, but rather some of the dialog that was re-arranged at the end of the film - specifically by giving Laurie Jon's line and having her deliver it to Dan instead of Ozy, robbing him, as Massawyrm said, of experiencing his one moment of complete and utter doubt. It's one of the most devastating moments of the novel and it was neutered for no apparent reason. Instead, we get the line as shown in the movie delivered by other characters who don't deliver the emotional impact it had in it's original context because it can't almost by definition. It was the little decisions like this that made it feel interesting, but uninvolving as a whole.
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but I felt it worked. <br> <br> What didn't work was the ketchup on the shirt. That actually dissapointed me more than anything. And I'm not kidding. <br> <br> But overall I really dug it.
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Is it Kubrick, or Starship Troopers? I have the answer to these questions man: It ain't any one of those. Also: watchmen isn't a novel. It's a graphic novel at best (which is a fancy name for comic book as far as i remember). I haven't even seen the movie yet but this "open" letter of yours REALLY turns me off of the whole thing. Weird mixture of desperation and illusions of grandeur. Stop blowing your own whistle so much and get back on the Prozac please.
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just ignore these pretentious pricks. The film was outstanding and will go down along-side all the films you mentioned. Thanks for your hard work and keep it up.
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...until that really uncomfortable Sally Jupiter crack. Uhh, okay. AICN isn't exactly the place to make a statement that amounts to "I tried to rape you and you loved it so much you're gonna let me come back to finish the job." Uhh, eww?
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even though I was ultimately disappointed with Watchmen, I think the guy's right that by supporting the film financially, we make it much easier for other (probably better) directors to take on risky material with the resources of the studios. Watchmen fizzled in the end (despite some great moments early on) but it was still one of the more interesting things to hit theaters in a long while, and if it does OK I do think we stand a much better chance of getting some really great films in the future. A vote with your consumer dollar, especially in THIS economy, actually means something (way more than any political vote you may make). <br><br> PS For a guy who makes a living writing, Hayter's even less comprehensible than Harry. Geez.
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Seriously, lay off the guy seems like most of the complaints are more with the directing than script. Too many of you are reading too much into this. And give him a break on the Scorpion King. I doubt anyone can help turn anything Stephen Sommers writes into a masterpiece. <p />Whats wrong with supporting a movie that was close to being great? It could have been a LOT worse.
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It would be like if Kubrick fumbled his punchline of T.J. King Kong riding the bomb to oblivion or Kubrick's final line in Eyes Wide Shut, "Fuck". <br> <br> Other than that the film is a nice play by play of the comic. But it is in no way Blade Runner or a Kubrick film.
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thought the movie w as awesome and can't wait to see it again.
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March 12, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST
Get real - any other screenwriter pulling this would be laughed
by halsolo
If I wanted to see a movie a second time, I will go see it a second time. I'm tired of this fanboy reaction that we should be grateful we get a movie and support it just because. Any other writer begging people to go see a movie they are undecided on a second time because "people are watching how this does" can accept that people were watching DARK KNIGHT, SPIDER MAN 2, THE INCREDIBLES and IRON MAN clean up. People are always watching success - maybe the ONLY $50 MILLION success mean appealing to fanboyism when you mess up an adaptation is pissing where you eat. Shame on you AICN for posting this.
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The film "pussed out" when the comedian burned the picture of the united states. Anyone who has read the GN knows what I'm talking about.
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Aside from reading like one of Harry's stream-of-consciousness rants, it also has a similarly creepy rape joke at the end. Seriously? Sally coming back to the Comedian is ... a sign of hope?!!
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seriously it doesn't take a wagging dick to show disassociation<p> Well at least it wasn't errect...
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If he thinks this letter is going to make any dent in the gross he's giving too much credit to the size of Harry's fanbase. Yeah, it's sizable, but I doubt it makes up even 2 percent of your average weekend gross. Movies that make blockbuster grosses do so because they appeal to people across the board, and most of them don't visit these websites. Most of them can't even name more than three hollywood actors. They just go see a film because it either has an interesting premise, a star they like, or heard it was good from a friend. If you want to make more money, make a better movie next time.
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David Hayter has a good point. No matter what you think of it, it was ballsy. If you think they didn't hit it out of the park this time, make sure there's a second time by supporting this movie.
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March 12, 2009, 7:14 p.m. CST
I think this is a movie that might be better a second time
by SexyBeast
i plan on seeing it this weekend at least.
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Stop bitching you fuckers. The comic was awesome and so was the film ADAPTATION. Let's see any of you fucks do better at writing a script, or directing, or anything else that involves you in the creation of this film. Fucking babies. I'll definitely be seeing Watchmen again this weekend Mr. Hayter.
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that 'bend you over the pool table' bit, too. <p>Real classy, hayter.
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This takes balls. This means a lot to everyone who cares about dark epic film making!! We need more films like the WatchMen being backed by the studio system. I loved the film for many reasons but most of all because it got made at all in the manner it did. Anyone who complains about this film is an angry sexless nerd who has no concept just how hard it is to get any movie made at all let alone a complex 100 million dollar film that stays extremely true to the material!!! Bravo all in involved and this message should be done by more film makers. It should be the beginnings of a revolution if you ask me.
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Nothing more. And you guys weren't helped by some of the casting.
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Had a few issues with it, but it was an earnest effort to bring the story to the screen, and I admired it for that. Sure, I'll go back for another viewing, for all the reasons you listed.
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Pathetic: "If you liked even one tiny moment in the film, go see it again"<p>It was fine to see once--nothing made me want to see it again. Rorshach was GREAT, Comedian was GREAT (but under utilized), Carla Gugino was wasted, and everyone else was dull as dirt with characters as thin as tissue paper.<p>The Times A Changing opening was a great standalone piece of cinema magic, but sadly, it Was Standalone....
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why would we want to support another go around of this kind? <br> <br> Just saying. I dug the film even though some of it was uneven, mainly due to some of the slowmo fight scenes and music choices. <br> <br> I couldn't force a friend to watch this knowing they didn't dig it. What's the point? They wouldn't want to support the film cause they didn't like the film. Maybe they wish Greengrass stuck around or some other young/new director had a chance. <br> <br> It's really up to the "Paul Blarters" out there. They're the ones to convince. We gave our dollar and some of us may go again. But some of us don't care. It's just the way it is. <br> <br> Don't worry the Dark Knight will always be a good pitch... for instance: "I have this comic film. It's got a little sci-fi and little sex. Oh it's about a Duck... but wait... it's also got a Dark Knight feel to it." <br> <br> Boom! Sold... greenlit... and in production with Paul Thomas Anderson at the helm.
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"They" will never let a movie like WATCHMEN be made again if it drops off the radar in week two? 1. GOOD. F***ING GOOD. 2. Somebody thinks a little too highly of himself, I think. You say your adaptation has heart and balls. I say it's juvenile. So, yeah, the balls are covered. Never, in all the years of reading and re-reading WATCHMEN did it make me think of my testicles, but, all-righty, pussy. If you say so. What about brains? That's a pretty important organ, too, donchaknow? The lesbian heroine kissing the nurse? That's one of your go-to moments? I remember being twelve, when the teacher graded my book report lower than I expected, I was kinda upset, too. But even then I knew not to write an open letter championing my gloriousness. That would've gotten me a good ass-kicking, probably. Your movie was nothing special. Generic. Except in parts where it was gratuitous. And the other parts where it was stupid. That's why I won't see it again. If that means I have to turn in my Geek Card, so be it.
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This is one of those you can just pop on at anytime. You can also pause it if you like.
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What the hell happened in MGS3 and 4? That was a lazy VA job for Snake!
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The movie making money so the studios realize that taking chances in a film like Watchmen (with the R rating, etc, etc) is worth the risk. You can say all you want about Hayter's letter, but the truth is that even if he meant to, he won't be convincing a huge amount of people who had no interest in the movie to just go, he's just Solid Snake, not fucking Barack Obama. I completely agree with him when he says that this is not only about the movie making more money, but about what that would mean for future and similar projects. He is right, Snyder took many risks and had enough balls to stick it up to the man as much as he could to get the movie he wanted (not the suits) on screen. We should all be thankful for that, regardless of the movie being great or just "good". Let's stop being complaining pussies and just go out and support the movie like the fanboys we claim to be, not only for Watchmen, but for future stuff we'd like to see treated with a bit more of respect by Hollywood.
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Yeah, except worldwide BO is already near 100 mil.<p>Also, I think the letter is gauche. But I come to expect this shit in genre stuff.<p>Anyway, I'm seeing it again this weekend or next week.
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While we're at it, everyone seems to be shitting a brick over the credit sequence. Am I the only one who thought that it did A) kind of a lousy job setting up the alternate universe, and that B) any brilliance was negated somewhat by the fact that they used the most obvious song imaginable for it? The same can be said for almost every music cue in the movie. "Hallelujah?" Really?
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I think you think too highly of your opinion, man.<p>Reading and re-reading something, mentally congratulating yourself for 'getting it' doesn't make you smart, in the same way as filming two broads kissing make this flick 'ballsy'.<p>I think showing Comedian punching the shit out of a civilian woman, and that getting a laugh out of a largely uninitiated crowd is pretty ballsy for a flick. They sure as fuck didn't laugh during Revolution Row or whatever the fuck.
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<p>Can't say it enough: the squid was needed.</p> <p>Bruddah shoulda' wrote that in. S'mattah? He was faithful to the material until the end? Sad. WERRRRRRRRRRR, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, EXPLOSIVE SPECIAL EFFECT. F*&kin' things should come with a laugh trax in every film the damn 'splosion ending is so f*&kin' overused!!!!!</p> <p>The squid would've put "Watchmen" the film firmly in cinematic history. THERE IS NO ENDING LIKE IT.</p> <p>Moviegoers have seen that kind of 'splosion (so what if it was light/metallic BLUE this time?). Typical Hollyweird ending,</p> <p>Brotha' COULD have banked on a strong second week if the dripping, overwhelming squid/tachyon appeared instead. ALL THIS WEEK folks would've been, "man, how's that monster in that Watchman movie, yeah?" "Man, that ending just creeped me out." THAT ending would've HAD people who didn't even CARE about seeing Watchmen in the first place seeing the film this week</p> <p>And those who've read "Watchmen" over the years would've come back in droves as well.</p> <p>To those of you who say the squid wasn't needed, think of this checkmate and trump on you: if the squid was KEPT IN, NO one, NO ONE, not the most casual fan, not the most die-hard fan of "Watchmen" would've said, "geez, the film should've ended with Ozymandias manipulating Dr. Manhattan and, oh, yeah, we should be treated to a Death Star explosion, yeah, yeah, we haven't seen THOSE in a while!"</p> <P>Not. One.</p> <p>Spread the f*&kin' word, and, uh, Mr. Screenwriter -- make sure you get that f*&kin' squid back into the DVD. Maybe THAT'll help what you're trying to do.</p>
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Read the graphic novel. Haven't seen the film yet. Therefore, I have nothing to add to this thread. Thank you.
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It's about content and good story telling. Some people didn't dig it. I believe someone could make a really good "R" super hero story at a decent budget nowadays. Just get a fucking good screenwriter new upcoming actors and actresses and a very convincing producer/director. <br> <br> This film is not the end all of comic films. Hell we survived Bat Nips for christ sakes.
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You dared me and I obliged. Suck it!
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March 12, 2009, 7:41 p.m. CST
No Squid = Trevor and Sigma Phi Fuckstick Will See It Too.
by micturatingbenjamin
Suck it again.
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You are such a badass but your voice actor is a whiny little bitch. Fuck the Watchmen movie it was horrible. I don't blame the scriptwriter. I blame the director.
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You hit the nail on the head. This movie came close... but fell apart at the end.. it actually gets WORSE on repeat viewings.
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hahaha fucking hah just be CAREFUL what you WISH for asshole
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Hitting a woman for a laugh is "ballsy?" Ok, if you say so. I'm not the one who wanted extra credit for ballsiness. One of the guys who created giant blue CGI testes was the one who wanted the credit. Besides, are you celebrating films that glorify violence against women? Really? Just curious, what kind of "ballsy" movies have you seen, douchebag? Ever seen a Fellini film? Bergman? Kurosawa? Pretty much this, 300, and the STAR WARS prequels - those are your touchstones, I'm just guessing. But hey, I'm feeling ballsy. Maybe I should come over and hit your mother. Hey, bud, got a sister? Cause I'll bring a lesbian superheroine with me.
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Much like all of Snyder's films.
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Can't pass up a chance to hopefully get my ideas across to the man that wrote the story.<P>Loved the film. I give it a solid B+. Frankly. it's easier to get into the parts that didn't work rather than the parts that did, since they are legion.<P>Ozy was all wrong. Those ignorant of the source material had him pegged as the villain from the very beginning. He wasn't humble or pure as the character in the comic was. Consider that this is a man that gave away his inheritance to rebuild himself. Ozy didn't form the Crime Busters (aka movie's Watchmen team) for this reason. And we had no sense of how much Bubastis meant to him, which gave her sacrifice zero weight. Goode played with arrogance, not humility. Maybe this is how he carried the role. Maybe this is how he was directed. Or, maybe this was how you wrote the character. Or some combination between.<P>What would life be like if super heroes walked among us? Answer -- They'd be just as fucked up as the rest of us. This is the Watchmen story on the surface. The lack of regular Joes in the film was unfortunate. We never got their perspective. The lesbian cabbie, the two Bernies, the reporter, the two detectives, the arson victims. Granted, there is only so much screen time to devote to such characters, but there was no grounding of the fantastic/super normal by way of giving us something to gauge a comparison. Perhaps these were cuts that Snyder chose to make. Or, perhaps they weren't cuts because they were never fleshed out on paper in advance.<P>Lastly, the crucial "Nothing ever ends line." Here we have the smartest man alive asking -- feasibly for the first time -- asking the demigod if he did the right thing. And the demigod answers with a line that is equally subjective as it is cryptic. Leaving Ozy to marinate in his self loathing. That's tragedy. That's missed opportunity. And this one is all your fault.<P>I have minor nitpicks -- like Dan and Laurie killing, which indistinguishes them from Kovacs -- but the above are the big three gripes I'll stick with.<P>The movie is so nuanced and gets so damn much right that I can't possibly dislike it. I even have little problem with the ending. This is a film that must be digested on multiple viewings just like the books and I love it for that. Thank you so very much for what you have helped to give us.
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...and clever ... and touching ...and daring. Fucking awesome. And the movie did it justice. But the typical "cell-phone still on and I talk during the movie" kind of moviegoer won't get it, cause you have to "think" a little bit to enjoy it. So the movie will sink, but I don't give a shit because it was made for me and I loved it.
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Still love it. As for Hayter, its a nice bit of hucksterism he has here, but also too transparent. Sad to see them this desperate. WB must be anticipating a Hulk-like dropoff.
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even though I dug this film.
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Sorry Bjorn. I wasn't intimating you weren't smart, but I figured a big boy like you could take a comment on your own commentary. So, since you called me a douche, fine I will talk about ballsy films about women getting hurt.<p>The original Last House on the Left. That movie was fucked up, ballsy. Oh, and Straw Dogs. That movie was also ballsy. What I was referring to was not the violence, but the laughter the violence evoked....the 'I get this, it's abhorrent, but I'm laughing' response that non-geeks had at the theater I watched it at.<p>But I forget, you're fucking stroking it over your copy of Watchmen and thinking 'I'm so smart, I equated his comment on violence with real violence', so I won't bother you anymore. But, real violence is not screen violence...and my anonymous internet fuckhead, nor is internet bravado the equivalent of balls.<p>Hope you die in a fire<p>Love, Micturatingbenjamin.
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I was bored out of my mind, except for the few scenes containing any action. This film had way too much dialog, too many flashbacks, a dis-jointed plot, and far too much blue dick, in all its wagging glory...
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...is that it drove the entire plot of the comic. The Comedian was killed because he witnessed the massacre of the artists who helped create the squid. (And he did it while he was on a black op, which is entirely in character.) How did he supposedly find out about Ozy's plans to nuke multiple cities? They pulled the thread that unraveled the whole thing! "They didn't have time to address it" is a pretty weak way to approach changing the cornerstone of the plot.
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IMO, the ending was lighter. No more do we watch secondary characters - who we got to see live and breathe and give the superhero stars of the story a city to defend - die agonizing, bizarre deaths. No more do we have their heroes forced to witness in graphic detail their twisted remains and horrified death faces. Veidt as a character no longer feels identifiable to the audience, you're never really asked to understand him, he never seems like a "good guy gone bad" there, he never truly shows remorse or gets a moment where he's quietly told that all this death may be mere hubris on his hands and will undoubtedly reverse at some point. Laurie and Dan no longer walk away from their superheroics. The death of the Comedian just doesn't have the "galactic joke" reasoning to set it in motion anymore, the Comedian's death is no longer about finding a secret island full of kidnapped artists and scientists, understanding their true nature and being far beyond even his twisted view. Rorschach's death no longer seems about the choices he makes which guide his life, the true threat his resolve now poses to society. Nixon seems downright relieved when he makes his address, it's a "happy" ending. <p> As for Dr. Manhattan, he's a known commodity AND he represents 2 things the world was already afraid of before Veidt's plan went into effect: he's a superhero (the world being angry and afraid of superheroes now), and he's a nuke. The whole point of Veidt's plan in the original was to get a great variety of minds together to come up with something that would bring the world together, and those minds came up with an unknown alien from beyond the stars - Veidt merely used knowledge and tools (like genetic engineering to make Bubastis) to create a new, unknown, fantastic threat that seemed so outlandish until the world was actually faced with it being made reality.
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The Wrestler <br> <br> That was a god dman fine film.
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March 12, 2009, 7:56 p.m. CST
WATCHMEN WAS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
I WILL SEE IT FOR THE 3RD TIME TOMMOROW!!
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you made a decent movie but its really not cool to try to guilt me into seeing it again because that requires you to make film that I want to see again. And you didnt make that kind of movie. It shows a level of classlessness to beg like that, and then try to be cute by making a joke about rape. no means no Mr Hayter
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Okay, I must be fucking shrooming. Because in the movie I saw, in the theater...it's explained why Comedian had to die. By Ozy. And it makes sense. What REALLY makes sense is that the device Ozy uses is just supposed to be the ONE in existience. Nixon knows about the one, how it can create energy, and be all destructive and shit, and Comedian of all people loses his nerve over using it. No need for a bunch of artists, writers, etc. for that ending.<p>Now, I get why you of the squid love the squid...it's what makes the book a comic book. It's what unabashedly pushes the comic into new/retread territory and comes out the other side as something new.<p>Would it have worked on the big screen? Who the fuck knows? But the time that it would take to tell that story would have been FAR too long to make the flick profitable, I think.
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Listen to the man.
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"wah, give me money for the video game juvenile attempt at an adaptation of Watchmen or else you'll never see anything intelligent on screen ever again! Like, seriously!" i hope it bombs. that way they'll think twice about who they get to direct a film like this, a fanboy or a proper storyteller.
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That's a way to pump up a movie: Come on you know you want it, even if it takes rape to help you figure it out.
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That's kind of hilarious.
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Your opinion is invalid. Shut the fuck up you worthless faggots and go eat two banana cream cocks.
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And now I plan to never read it. This movie was a waste of 9 perfectly good dollar bills...
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This is something that has made me think that the guy is a fucking retard. But, I get it, he wants to SHOCK you with his rape-talk. Dare you into going to see it.<p> I dare HIM to put his dick in a fan<p>Also, the dick's just there, guys...it doesn't wag, and yeah, in IMAX there's roughly 8.95 stories of other shit to look at...but hey, you want to keep watching every vein of his big blue hog? Yeah...that's what's bringin' YOU back to the theater. :)
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You bile-filled, nit-picking fanboys give me a stomach ache. How is it that you and I can like some of the same things? The movie was really quite good. Some bad makeup, some awkward line readings, sure, but you all lose sight of the big picture: what an accomplishment this film really is, how many beats it DID hit, and within the Hollywood system! Why are you SO much more intent on dismissing a movie like Watchmen, which got it SO much better than 90% of adaptations out there? Is it "your way or the highway"? You've lost all perspective. By the way, I think the squid is too small-scale for the film. It works in the book perfectly, but the atomization/decimation of many major cities is appropriate for the big screen. And it's poetic - the world got a small taste of mutually assured destruction. (In the real world, one might argue, the squid already happened - eight years ago.) I think seeing dead bodies would have helped the horror of the thing, but it may have been overwhelming to the point of distraction in the theater, too - in the comic at least you can sit and breathe with the pages. "Watchmen" hit all the beats I wanted. Ozzy as a faded glamster? Billy Crudup's brilliant Manhattan? Night Owl jumped right off the page. You cynical fanboys really made me think I was going to hate it, but I ended up loving it.
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When I read Watchmen the first thing I thought was that Stanley Kubrick would be the perfect director for this material. He would have stripped the story down to it's bare essentials, while keeping the dark themes and moral quandary of the ending intact. But I think Mr. Kubrick would have ultimately concluded the novel to be far too good for him to improve upon. I enjoyed the movie, and plan on seeing it again, but it wasn't a successful adaptation in my opinion. It looked great, had some awesome gore, but it was ultimately hollow. Still, it's better than anything else currently running in theaters right now.
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they become The Reader. come on, we probably reached a cap for how serious we want movies about superheroes in TDK. Iron man was fun because it didn't try to be something it wasn't. I dont know why comic book films aren't comfortable with themselves as art...
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I couldn't believe the soundtrack either. I just kept thinking it had to be a joke. Every single song on the soundtrack is beyond cliche at this point (they may be great songs individually, but they've been overused in films to the point of meaninglessness. "Hallelujah" was in fucking SHREK for fucks sake). <br><br>On the other hand, despite the obviousness and the sheer clunking literalness of putting "Times..." at the beginning, I actually think the sequence really works for me. In fact, the images are so strong and iconic that I think they actually made the song itself a little deeper for me (because face it, its a pretty literal, superficial song as it is, Dylan or no). The image of Dollar Bill dead, the "Lesbian Whores"... Comedian Killing JFK... for whatever reason, they really bring out a haunting quality in Dylan's voice and the instrumentation that I never noticed before. <br><br> Did Synder do this on purpose? Doubt it, given how shallow his interpretation of all the other songs are. Really, are you going to put two "riders" approaching in the howling wind ... exactly to the lyrics? Lame, lame lame. But despite the best efforts of the filmmakers to do the easiest, most superficial thing, I think the opening sequence is a home run, far far better than anything else in the movie, and for whatever weird reason its the combo of music and image that does it.
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Whatever interest in this movie was just shot to shit. Completely. Don't beg for my money. Just because the fans are loud doesn't mean shit. You have to make a movie with wide appeal. It's simple. Does it kick ass that this movie got made? Of course. Id it going to make 200 million? Doubt it. And the reason is, there are a lot of us fanboys out there, and I know a lot of them, and most of the ones I know don't care about Watchmen. They are a very vocal minority in my opinion. Now, that's not to say the movie will flop. Once it hits Blu Ray, watch out...but, a lot of us fanboys have kids. And who the fuck wants to see a child harmed just for a fucking movie? Not me...
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There were about 8 people in the 700 seat dome theater.. I took a friend who wouldn't know a grapic novel from a shovel.. I had read the G.N. and I thought they did a pretty damn good job of bringing this to the screen.. I asked my friend what he thought after it was over expecting him to blast it.. He enjoyed it ..probably wouldn't see it again but thought it was a noble attempt at an adult oriented super hero film. Heard him laugh out loud at some of the more humorous Rorsach lines. I would see this again in a directors cut at the theater but I probably will wait for the eventual dvd version to pick it apart at home..all in all I say go see it..and you can't fault Hayter for his letter..We all think our offspring are special. I'm sure his (baby) means a lot to him..
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I'll hold my breath and count to five million the day your balls drop, your voice lowers and you get kissed by a girl, okay?
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I'm holding off on seeing this until it's a dvd rental, if only to keep the next decade of comic films from being shoehorned into this execrable "dark" fetish.
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I just saw it, and since I knew from the previews it wasn't the way I'd recommend going about it, I decided to see if Snyder's route merited respect, and it did. I get it. Again, not the way I'd like to see it done, but it's a legit take - the sort of heightened, comic-booky thing. It works for them most part.<p>I'd say the movie is uneven; sometimes I got bored but not for too long. I think a lot of people are just scrutinizing it way too intensely, though. I watched it with as open a mind as I could and it ended up good for me. I actually liked the ending, or at least how it was handled.<p>I think where they went wrong strategically was to concentrate on character. Neither the plot nor the characters are that great in the comic, even. What greatness there is to Watchmen is the crafting of it, the almost mathematical structuring. I think that's why Alan Moore said it was really only going to work as a comic, because all that insane detail and structure could never happen in a movie. Any film based on Watchmen will be good at best because the elements of the comic that can be ported are not its strongest elements.
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I take that back. Sorry. i haven't seen the movie yet. I'll hold off until than. Wait. I'm not going to see it.
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FUCK YOU. FAG. WITH YOUR FUCKING FAGGY GLOVES.
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They absolutely explained it.
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March 12, 2009, 8:11 p.m. CST
That's bad when they have to roll out the writer for ticket sale
by SomaShine
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I like the way you think. That is all.<p><p>My problems with these movies goes far beyond just the writing or the character treatments. It's the utterly asinine directing and laughable displays of "special effects". Honestly, movies like these try so very hard to make it ridiculously obvious what the "money shot" is supposed to be. So they completely ram it down your throat.<p><p>"Ok, let's make the audience say 'WHOA COOL' by suddenly throwing everything into slo-mo during the explosion so we can get that cool shot of her quickly whipping her hair around in bullet-time, then speed it back up after the audience has gotten a good view of that smooth flowing hair-action. Then let's throw it in every trailer since it's such a badass and dope shot. Aw man the kids are gonna LOVE this."<p><p>You can (and will) argue into the ground the problems with the movie versus the source material, I don't know a damn thing about it. But as much as I enjoy David's work, people like him still just don't "get it". There ARE ways to stay faithful to the source material WITHOUT completely losing the general audience. There ARE ways to adapt a comic to a film in a serious, meaningful way instead of just throwing your hands up and saying "Welp, it's a comic, scenes like these are supposed to be cheesy". The problem is these people just don't have the skill to do it. They think that it either has to be faithful to the source material and completely lose everyone else, or make it appeal to everyone by dumbing it down and altering the story to make it "work better as an easy-to-follow-for-everyone movie". That's how limited their scope is. I can think of a billion ways movies like this could've worked better on BOTH levels even without knowing the source material. I'm no professional, it's just film-making common sense. And the people who are given these projects just don't have it.
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...where is the freaking Squid, lameass! Are YOU the lame-ass pussing-out chikenshit of a writer who's reponsible for this shadow of used to be a wondrous, bizarre, surprising ending? CAN YOU FUCKING EXPLAIN TO ME THE RATIONALE FOR NOT HAVING THE SQUID?????? Asswipe
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...I didn't hate it, but that was my appraisal of Indy IV, and that's a MILLION miles away from I loved it. YES, I saw it on the big screen. YES, I will see it again (time permitting, maybe more than once). But I will NEVER get over the arrogance that the "adaptor" thinks he knows better than the author. The new ending is retarded, the original transcendant. The difference is all in the IQ. 90% of the movie was made for intelligent, thoughtful individuals (yes, even the ultra violence), and then, right at the end, someone lost their (big blue?) balls and refused to give the audience the credit that they might accept the original, somewaht outlandish but oh so crucial ending. Your ending was NOT better. It not only made no sense, it dumbed down and diminished the best narrative frak you of all time. You scored SO many victories against the studio, I applaud you. But you pre-empted the ONLY battle that counted by capitulating before anyone even objected. So, this is not 2001, or Apocalypse, it's a million bloody miles from Blade Runner, Alien, the better Treks. It's closer to the 5th Element. ALMOST great, but far far to flawed to be counted in the very small pantheon of great fantasy movies. Close, but the Comedian cannot have his cigar.
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He's not asking you guys who disliked it to see it again. <p> He's not asking those of you who are apathetic about it to go see it again. <p> PAY ATTENTION. <p> He's asking those who liked it and who *plan* to see it again to NOT delay and to see it THIS weekend since studio fucks only care about opening weekend grosses and the second week dropoff. <p> So if you hated the movie or just didn't care- fine. But stop trying to turn this around into some sort of pathetic attempt at begging for more fans.
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Call me Snake, I watch the Watchmen...
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March 12, 2009, 8:23 p.m. CST
Sorry, don't give a fuck about the rich getting richer
by Liberty Valance
Also warned my dad--who loves a good comic book movie--against going to see it, simply because he'd hate the cynical bent of this antiheroic troupe. I liked Watchmen, but I care more about my dad blowing $30 to see it with his lady than Warner Bros adding another $50 million to their money bin.
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Gerard Butler can voice the animated tie-in.
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they stuck to the original as much as could reasonably be expected, and if it tanks, we'll never see a project given as much freedom again.
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other than the grease on the fries and whatever is dripping off the metal. Fry baskets are mesh therefore "a fry-basket full of hot grease in the face" wouldn't really contain that much burning oil. Kind of ironic coming from a screenwriter but I see his point and I'll try to finally see Watchmen this weekend...
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Drop the anger over no squid it is so stupid. The squid had to go, it doesn't matter. The new one is the same thing.
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March 12, 2009, 8:31 p.m. CST
Kubrick Would Have Been The Perfect Director For WATCHMEN
by LaserPants
I couldn't possibly agree more. But I think Snyder and crew did a really great job. I can't begrudge them. For one, I really liked it, and for another I know I could have done it any better. Only someone like Kubrick could have done it perfectly. As it stands, tho, I really think they did a good job. I really loved the movie, though it is flawed. I think a solid B+ is a valid grade. Oh, and I'm sold on the Extended Directors Cut, def.
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So I don't see it as necessary to see the movie again in order to support more films like it. I'd rather see a hundred more dark knights made, and no more watchmen.
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look, artists shouldn't explain their work. artists should let their work speak for itself. because if artists have to explain what they meant or what they were trying to say, then arguably they've failed.<p> and most of all, artists shouldn't write self-justifying letters to fans in an attempt to pimp their work.<p> i think Snyder and Hayter did a decent job, except for the ending which - i'm sorry to say - they blew. not by taking out the squid but by pinning it on Dr Manhattan and not underlining Ozymandius's ultimate uncertainty. But overall i respect what they accomplished more than what they failed to get right.<p> But Hayter should still shut his mouth.<p>
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I know I COULDN'T do any better.
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March 12, 2009, 8:32 p.m. CST
Re: Trust me. You'll come back, eventually. Just like Sally.
by fishpillow
Fuck you man, Bitorrent here I come!
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This move had financial "freedom", I'll give you that. But when you see an adaptation of Hamlet where he defeats the bad guy, gets the girl and lives happily ever after...then your "freedom" has gone too far. Seriously, how is that some literary works are beyond touching, Shakespeare especially, no-one would think fo amending any of his plot points. But within 30 years of Watchmen being published it's okay to completely rip out the narrative heart despite it having nothing wrong with it. I've thought long and hard about this, but FUCK Snyder and FUCK Hayter and especially FUCK DC and WB. How DARE you have such disrespect for inarguably the greatest graphic novel of all time. No wonder Alan Moore wants nothing to do with you, how difficult is it to adapt one of his works without completely missing the point? Apparently too difficult for the cuntulants of la-la-land. I don't blame him for washing his hand of you, tossers!
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As was pointed out already it's the word-of-mouth of average movie goers, not smiley pin wearing fan boys, that is going to kill this movie. And rightly so, the average movie goer was expecting something else, and this comes completely out of left field and "cracks them in the jaw". They're leaving unhappy. If this was marketed differently that wouldn't be the case, but then it was marketed like a blockbuster and you and your team let them market it that way because if you were to have said to the studio "hold on there, this is a movie 'by fans for fans'" they would have had second thoughts about the massive budget they poured into it. So it is what it is. I for one (as a fan) think you guys did a marvelous job with it. But I have no delusions that it's going to tank, and no matter how many times I see it that's not going to change. Sorry David.
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March 12, 2009, 8:34 p.m. CST
All this talk of Kubrick has gotten me to thinking...
by Forthesakeofhumanity
...how would Kubrick have approached this material differently, and what kind of film would we have ended up with from him? Would Kubrick have even opted make a film adaptation of Watchmen at all (if the problem of trying to adapt the material was put to him hypothetically), or would he have agreed with Alan Moore and ultimately dismissed it as unfilmable? I really want this movie to do well (for all the reasons stated by Hayter), and for the record I really enjoyed the movie for what it was and felt that overall it stayed true to the spirit of the GN (when accepting the fact that by the necessary simplification of the original medium from its various forms of print to a singular motion picture format, any adaptation of the GN couldn't hope to reproduce the original material verbatim and fully retain all the elements that contributed to its greatness. Plus with the need to condense the material for a palatable running time) and I've seen it twice already, and will certainly pick up the uncut Blu-Ray when it's released and I think this film will come into its own on this format! (By the way, don't Blu-Ray and DVD sales exert a far greater influence on studio decisions these days, much like the Box Office?) However, with regard to Hayter's attempt to somehow influence the overall Box Office takings of Watchmen by appealing to what is essentially a small minority of hardcore fans, the unfortunate truth is that the 'dumb masses' will ultimately dictate the overall success of your movie, not us. To quote (possibly yourself), "Miracles by their definition are meaningless, only what can happen does happen." So, you should already know that rallying the fans in an attempt to artificually create a Box Office 'miracle' for Watchmen is an exercise in futility - though I certainly join you in hoping Watchmen does well enough commercially to empower all you writers with the flexibility to produce many more challenging and interesting mainstream works for us to enjoy in the future...
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March 12, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST
I would have seen this five times if it had the squid...
by BALZACS_BALLSAC
...just for the sheer HOLY SHIT! A GIANT FUCKING MONSTER factor. But I like that shit. I saw Cloverfield twice just for that. I'll see Watchmen twice but if it had the squid I would've seen it more and in the IMAX. Just sayin'.
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How do people still have trouble understanding the new ending??? Its been blatantly obvious, even before the movie cameout-- for cying out loud-- IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT DOC MANHATTEN WAS AMERICAN!!! It is completely beyond me that people think that the us would get attacked because of something doc man did... FUCKING AMERICA WAS ATTACKED TOO!!! Say there's a military guy, american, and masterminds a massive terrorist attack on america and another country--by some idiots logic, that would mean that America should be attacked because an american terrorist attacked america and another country. It is fucking simple to understand... the amount of stupidity i have read on this topic is absolutely baffling.
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...would have mucked it up, had some pseudo-intellectual sex BS and too much emphasis on the psychopaths (no doubt he loved Kovaks!). It would have been like all his adaptations, impressive only because it was the first. Guy shoulda been a cinematographer, had less of an inkling of narrative than Tarantino at his worst, and that is NOT a complement.
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...on IMAX this time!
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It may take a while but for sure it will make back the production and marketing costs. I see this film getting a second wind even though as I said above the matinee I saw on tuesday was like a ghost town..but it was tuesday at 11:00 am and the three girls in front of me giggled at blue cock. So I showed them mine and they screamed..
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Based on your post Im forced to conclude you are a moron.
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...would not have concerned others, well yes, other Americans! I assure you, that fact would have been of premium relevance to non-Yanks, and especially so to te Russians!
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...They even got a lot of normals through the doors. I loved the film, but no offence to My Hayter, it's just a film for most people. When he says they will never allow another film like this again, I had to chuckle, since while watching the film I couldn't believe a studio would make it in the first place.
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then he was the right guy for the job. and hes right, even if you hate this movie, if it tanks, then say goodbye to anyone ever taking a risk on any movie that isnt as obvious and long standing as batman.
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<p>It never comes off as anything other than self-serving. I saw it for a second time yesterday. I liked it a lot the first time and I liked it a lot the second time. But I still have the same minor problems with it. The movie didn't change from Friday to Wednesday. Saying that it needs to be watched twice is basically saying people didn't know what they were watching, if they didn't love everything about it, and that they need to see it again because they were obviously mistaken about something. Pissing off your base is re-tard-ed and that's exactly what that does. </p> <p>Oh, and why the hell would I laugh at Ziggy Stardust or Silhouette unless I was some kind of goddamn homophobe?</p> <p>If that remake with the Rock wasn't a remake with the Rock, I'd go see it just for spite. :p </p>
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sadly i do not live in the us to add to the bo. On another hand, David Hayter Rocks! he is mother fucking snake, and a helluva writer! even though some bits of the letter felt weird.
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I liked Watchmen and I've seen it twice already, but I honestly feel Snyder (and possibly Hayter) didn't really understand the material at all and the above letter from Hayter is the smoking gun.... defy me to say this movie had balls? Uh ok.... except, in the 25 years I've been waiting for a Watchmen movie i've never once had a thought even remotely close to "it better have balls". I wanted to be smart and have feeling... I couldn't give a shit if Rorschach melting some guy with fry oil was in there... or any of the other graphic violence that Hayter thinks of as "balls".... I always considered that stuff totally incidental and non-essential to Watchmen. Hayter and Synder seem to think fanboys liked Watchmen because shock value and gore content.... nothing could be further than the truth. Again, I liked Watchmen... but it all felt a bit "off" to me... and now I guess I know why.... the filmmakers were waaaaaaay too obsessed with giving the movie a totally unneeded and inappropriate set of "balls".
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Why? Because I don't subscribe to the "unquestioned lie" that Kubruck HAS to be a genius because everyone says so? ALL of his most memorable works were adaptations of other people work. Usually adaptations that lost considerable amounts of the power of the original. Like I said, guy knew how to frame a shot, but not how to direct an actor, compose a scene or do ANYTHING original with a camera. Personal opinion, granted. But I've seen more films than you and I've seen better by directors you haven't even heard of. Not showing off, just a fact xxx
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WE GET IT HAROLD YOU LIVE EAT AND BREATHE WATCHMEN HELL FUCKING YOKO SHOULD BE SILK SPECTRE IN THE NEXT ONE IN THE SERIES WE'LL ALL PITCH IN AND GIVE YOU SOME PRODUCTION IDEAS AND MONEY JUST PLEASE SPARE US MORE OF THESE STORIES FOR AWHILE!!! THE CATS NOW KNOW MORE ABOUT WATCHMEN THEN THE LOCALS COMIC BOOK GUYS AND THE BEAGLES NOW ARE ON ON A FIRST NAME BASIS WITH FUCKING NITE OWL. GIVE IT A REST AND GET SOME FUCKING TRANSFOMERS SHIT UP HERE WE CAN ABUSE YOU FOR.
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why should I go see a movie based on a graphic novel that is too fucking boring for me to even give a shit about? and before one of you jerk offs tells me I can't understand all the little nuances and stupid nerd crap like that- get over yourselves. greatest comic book ever?! puhlease.
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paul blart is still showing at your local theater. seems like that would have been the movie for you.
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NO SHIT, YOU DID PUSS OUT. The movie is beautiful, and totally TAKES from the graphic novel. But it didn't take the POINT. and it didn't stay as dark as it should have. You guys rewrote the ending and you DID NOT make me think. You DID NOT make me debate shit except whether the movie was good or bad. Seriously, get a clue. You fucked up that ending.
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AND THE FUCKED EYEBALLS OF 2009 BE DAMNED TOO
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Begging fans to see it again because if it falls off of the face of the earth, no one will make another one like it! <p>GOOD! <p> Make something better then it wont fall off of face of earth.
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Quad... you hit the hammer on the nail. The film didn't even seem to match its trailer. That's fine for those of us who read the books, but it just doesn't do it for the general viewer. It's reminiscent of "Best Defense" which was heavily marketed as an Eddie Murphy movie in his heyday--- and which filmgoers soon learned was, ummm, "less" than accurate. TopFive... "this letter reads like a soccer mom trying to get the coach to start her son" is pretty dead on. You only left out the part where she starts cussin' once he still says no. I mean, Hayter's "come back Sally" closing line was rather unnerving when you think about it. For his own sake, I hope it doesn't move too far beyond the genre community. The guy has talent, but he and his team looks as if they're just going to have to take one this time. They'll be back.
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I thought I'd bring it back old school with this post.
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No need to pour it on like this Hayter. It was an awesome movie, and bloody as fuck, what more could I have possibly asked for?
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phaedrus007, i liked the movie, but i wanted to LOVE THE SHIT OUT OF IT. I wanted to love it more than my first born child (sarcasm) but i thought it was good. Could it have b een better? of course. Do I know how it could have been better? no chance. phaedrus007, of all the people who have spoken negetively about the movie, your post was the most constructively critical take on the movie by miles and miles and miles. After reading your post, I feel like I actually understand what was wrong with it, and it wasn't obvious to me. So many talkbackers are compensating for shitty lives so they lash out because they can't in the real world. I think alot of talkbackers could learn something from the way you critiqued it. seriously, well done.
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This could of all been avoided.
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I didn't like the movie. And even if I did like it, I'd probably deliberately avoid seeing it again just because of this pathetically desperate plea. Look, I appreciate what the movie tried to do, and I respect the hell out of everyone involved even though I thought the movie sort of sucked. But to anyone trying to guilt trip me into seeing it again, as if it's somehow MY responsibility to make sure that these kinds of movies continue to get made, all I have to say is "fuck that." I didn't like it so I'm not gonna pay to watch it again. That's it. If you wanted me to see it again then you guys should have made a better movie. And if I'm just an idiot and the movie was totally fucking awesome, well then you don't need my money. Just stop. This is actually just sad. I didn't like the movie, but I at least had respect for all involved. But when you have to freaking beg people to see it again just to keep its second week box office figures up, then that is lame and you can fuck right off. PS: Don't worry David, I still love you. You were awesome as Solid Snake.
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Gave us 2001, Full Metal Jacket, and A Clockwork Orange, so he isn't crap. I forgive him for Eyes Wide Shut, because he was old and dying. As for Kubrick handling the source material better, do you guys realize he completely cut the 21st chapter of the novel, which is the ending? Burgess hated him for that.
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just wondering.
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At the very least, its darker, more twisted. Burgess' original ending was actually rather optimistic.
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Sorta tasted like it, with something to really catch your eye, but leaves a bad taste in your mouth at the very end. I was all for a 'new' twist on the ending. I had high hopes for it...but making the Doc the bad guy totally changes the point Moore was trying to make with the story. No matter who the hell you are, how powerful you are, even if you drop a damn a-bomb on people's heads they are still people and it never ends. Ozy gave the world a villain, a tangible one they were familiar with, one they knew. The squid was more relevant, it was mysterious, it was lovecraftian, it was a neutral enemy that could unite a world. I let everything else slide until the end...when Bubastis shows up for no reason (was Adrian even working on cloning tech? I had to answer that damned question like six times after the movie). Invoking Kubrick, the Dark Knight and Bladerunner is RETARDED. You didn't make a Bladerunner, you made a Starship Troopers. It was good, but not great. It should have been great.
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This doesn't sound good:<br><br> http://tinyurl.com/cgyx3z
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March 12, 2009, 9:13 p.m. CST
I'll be honest, I've taken as many drugs as Alan Moore has
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
I mean, there's no shame, it was in the papers, and I'm clean living now. Sober and ready to fuck shit up. But lemme just say that you cannot discount what serious amounts of mescaline and peyote can do to you man. I mean sure you think it's funny he talks to a snake god named Glycon. Buddy, I had fuckin drinks with Glycon. I drove him to his Mom's house.<p> Just to be straight up here, I'm saying that there is an amount of drugs that Alan Moore did that made him a total genius and batshit insane. So fuckin crazy he actually - get this - is not afraid to analyze and deconstruct his own artistic process. And he purposely and very delibertely used Watchmen as the first example of basically using subliminals and sigils and hidden occult symbols in a work of comics. The thing about the squid is that if you look back, the book Watchmen is nothing more than a giant subliminal magic trick. The squid is there all along. It's building up to it bit by bit in secret coded ways so that when it hits your brain is taken out of its typical subconscious reference.<p> Take it from me, a guy who used to mix cocaine and steroids in the speedball.
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...I'm already seeing it again this weekend, IMAX this time. I thought the letter was sincere.
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March 12, 2009, 9:16 p.m. CST
Best sales pitch I've read for a movie in a long time.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
Brutally honest. I think I will go to it again. Gotta support the genre! Gotta support Rorschach! One of the best Crimefighters in movie history.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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thanks man. I feel EXACTLY the same way... i wanted to LOVE it and it just wasn't quite right. At the same time I enjoy it, and feel disappointed by it. Sigh.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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Yo, why don't you become a gym teacher you friggin' juicer.
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you just blatantly post this without any intro? no thoughts? no opinion? hit me with your excuse.
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March 12, 2009, 9:18 p.m. CST
Why isn't David Hayter playing Ricky Gervais' brother?
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
Like seperated at birth man... Sometimes I watch The Office, when I'm high, and I picture David Brent talking in Solid Snake's voice.
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I admire your commitment, but I don't buy your ending (and yes, it is YOUR ending). I don't mind a change if it's for the better, but your version creates more problems that it solves. Sorry.
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I didn't realize how much you were into the WATCHMEN.
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...His lolita was a failure, Strangelove is so much better than the source material, that in effect the source material doesn't even count. 2001, likewise. But then we get A Clockwork Orange. His most poorly made film, and a truly crappy adaptation of a great book, with, yep, an inferior ending. The Shining and Barry Lyndon are quite different from the books, but also equally as good. Full Metal Jacket, not much of a film, but not much of a book either. Then we get Eyes Wide Shut, which fucking sucks as a book and a film. I've never quite grasped the reverence for Kubrick. Like Hitchcock, he's undeniably great at making films. But the overall package seems pretty average, when you realise hes made a couple of good films and two great films. Then again, Hitchcock had Psycho and not much else.
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I have wrestled with my demon the steroids, and for me reconnecting with childern is just part of getting back on top, winning the trust of those without pubes or fetishes can make a man's soul purified before the cleansing hurricane comes.
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which means it's probably not for everyone.
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The book ends with Alex realizing what he is, where he's at, and Pete is all on the up and up actually makes it end on such a bigger downer. If it was made today and if Stan was still alive, it would have ended like the book (which Stanley wanted in the first place). But we like our happy 'carry the kryptonite island off into space, ya deadbeat superdaddy' endings. Or so the know-it-alls in Hollywood keep making, anyways.
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I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. Yes, I saw the flaws in it, the plot holes, the missing squid - regardless of all of that, I still thought the movie was great. If you put the comic book aside and just look at the movie as a whole, I can't imagine anyone telling me that the movie itself isn't completely wonderful.
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are very different from the rest of my life. You have to understand that I read Watchmen in a 72 hour binge after eating irish stew contianing magic mushrooms, crack rocks, and the shit they give preop dykes who want to get dick implants. It was perhaps my darkest day, for in that 72 hours I read Watchmen 12 times, as well as Nabokov's Pale Fire and even some Denis Diderot. This is what drugs will do to you. Before that i was strictly a Grisham kinda guy.<p> On the other hand, don't give me too much credit, cause Watchmen has lots of pictures.
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March 12, 2009, 9:24 p.m. CST
David Hayter may be Guyver, but Paul Rudd is a Gen-Y cop
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
a brash american cop who will take you down, a loose cannon with kung fu and american know how. That's right, Paul Rudd is an action star.<p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAwxdMKlTog
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and I liked it more than the first time...not that I didn't like it the first time. The only thing I didn't like, was the guy in the row in front of us that brought his 4 or 5 year old son to see it. Who brings a kid that young to fuckin' Watchmen?
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Thats yet another fucking retard article written by a halfwitted imbecile. Wait, overseas Watchmen didn't perform as well as films like The Hulk or Spider Man?! No Fucking shit! You don't say! In other news, expectations were not met for Towelhead, which with unlike The Dark Knight, did not earn over 100 million in its first weekend of release. So, lets get this straight, if I predict that film will open with a certain number, and it fails to make that number, its a dissapointment? Well, I'm calling a 44 billion one day opening for Transformers 2. I hope it doesn't flop.
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I was looking forward to seeing the Watchmen, but haven't got around to it yet either. Also, I've been needing to sacrfice something for Lent as well. So for next few weeks I'm donating the money I would have spent seeing Watchmen (or any other movie) to Lent charities. Sorry, David.
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to stop a puss arse sequel being made. A good return would guarantee 1 or 2 more seeing as all the actors signed a 3 picture deal. A tidy profit but not enough to warrant a follow up is all the makers should want. So fuck em.
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March 12, 2009, 9:28 p.m. CST
BTW if there's one movie that reminds me of drug hell
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
it has to be that fucking creepy ass Coraline. I saw that shit in 3d and thought someone had dosed my free refill 64 oz diet coke.
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...but I didn't hate it, it just was coitus interruptus towards the end. SOme people like it, some don't. That's thier opinion. What's fucking stupid is the screenwriter pandering his wares like a orange and strawberry corner jockey. THE FATE OF HOLLYWOOD IS IN YOUR HANDS!!!! GO SEE MY MOVIE, I SWEAR i WON'T GET A KICK BACK!! Fuck you. If they got it right the first time...meh...that argument is exhausted. IF LAURIE WASN'T SMOKING WHY THE FUCK DID SHE PRESS THE FLAMETHRWOER BUTTON? It's a button....with a flame on it. Let's press it!
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Because one "serious," "faithful" (and expensive to produce) comic adaptation isn't doing well at the box office, that means that Hollywood studios will never roll the dice on a single challenging film again? Yeah... they'll forget all about The Dark Knight and some of the other successful (and good, and faithful in spirit) comic book adaptations out there. Watchmen is a very flawed film. The source material was great, and despite trying to make things *look* the same as they do in the GN, Snyder and the screenwriters made some bad choices on what to include and what to leave out. That ending is a hollow mess, devoid of all the haunting little things that gave the GN ending its weight (yes, regardless of the Squid, the resolution and treatment of the plot points was horribly done in the film compared to the GN). I know there were studio-mandated cuts, so I'll cut Snyder some slack for the way he cut Rorschach's origin way too short, but that ending... that ending just felt emotionally fake, whereas the GN's resonates. Squid or no Squid, that's the film's biggest problem.
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Anymore R rated movies like this for adults.
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He didn't say go see it again if you disliked it. He didn't say go see it again if it was "meh". He said for those who liked it, or *MOSTLY* liked it, except for a few gripes, go see it again THIS weekend. And he said if you were ALREADY planning on seeing it again, make it this weekend, for the weekend box office. Why should you? So other movies like this, rated-R, ballsy (heart or not) can be made. Period. Its reason enough. I'm sorry if you were offended by his perceived-as-panhandling letter, but get over it.
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read more carefully. He didn't say Hollywood won't greenlight movies like the Dark Knight. Batman had always had a leg-up, and Batman Begins was a test-model and overperformed and bought TDK its chance. Unknown projects like Watchmen (unknown to many studios and most audience members) have a much harder time getting greenlight, and if greenlit, keeping the studio interferance to a minimum. Yes, really good ALREADY-ACCEPTED movies like TDK will be greenlit and made. But lesser-known projects that are iffy, and rated-R, won't. The studios will say "we're not going to have another Watchmen".
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Really? I've seen an occasional ad on Comedy Central and some (surprisingly underwhelming) PR pieces in the news, but aside from that and the great viral marketing stuff on youtube, I really didn't see much marketing for this movie once the Fox lawsuit dropped. It always seemed to me like whatever the settlement was, the marketing from then on was half-hearted at best. If they'd been giving out Smiley-Face buttons as a marketing gimmick, that would've probably worked better. Hell, aside from "blue dong," "weird," and "violent" there wasn't much buzz about this movie at all. What the hell reason did the studio give non-fans of the GN to see this movie?
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the comic was way better. I dont know why. The movie was accurate. But I think if you saw the movie without reading the comic, it wouldnt have made much sense. The problem is, a comic book takes hours to read and you can digest it. The movie took three hours. The multiple plots just seemed thinner to me. Dont know why. Sorry. Good movie, but if you want to know what watchmen is, read the book.
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but seriously, if we were sitting in front of the editing bay, how differently would we edit it? I don't know, myself. And there's no way we're going to be able to stop the "Pete Travers of the LA TIMES calls it non-stop slam-bang action!!" That kind of quoting is always going to happen. Studios need to put it on their tv spots like crack whores need to put it in their bodies.
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The cast. The running time. The rating. The nude manhattan. The gore. The violence. This is what Hayter is talking about. Next time a director wants to do a three hour cut the studios will tell him no and force a PG13 rating on the film.
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Come on Snake, yea it's REALLY hard to remain faithful to the source material of any property. It's not like there's already a storyboard to work with before beginning pre-production or anytbing...
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by making this film. If it's a "failure" the Tom Rothmans of the world will now and forever produce crap like Fantastic Four and directors like Brett Ratner will be called upon to direct them. <p> The opening credits alone are the most imaginative opening to a movie of the last decade. WB and Snyder should be rewarded for that.
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All the haters. Buncha ungrateful spoiled brats.
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Soon I please hope! This man who write make me glad to see soon with what they say!
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March 12, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST
Warners showed some brass fucking blue balls allright
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
when they called Zack Snyder a visionary. That's swollen up balls!
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I didn't even read your Kubrick opinion. Its because of the way you argue your points, even ripping off a weak argument that Masswyrm made on this very site. <p> But you gave me yet another reason to call you a moron: your unprovable, unasked for, and ultimately unneeded statement (bc honestly, who the fuck cares?) that *you* have seen more films than me. A conclusion you came to because of only ONE post from me. <p> "But I've seen more films than you and I've seen better by directors you haven't even heard of." <p> Really? Do you realize how much of a laughing stock you are for such a ridiculous assertion based on a singular comment from me that was 100% not film-related?
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I'll wait for the super extended edition. <p> Though I did love the Snow Owl Suit.
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I'm sure Frank Miller and everyone involved with that tried to make a good movie, too. But they didn't. Did we all owe some debt to the filmmakers for making a disappointing film in hopes that if we support an underwhelming it might lead to better ones down the road? 300 was an R-rated, little known comic adaptation that was huge at the box office. So was Sin City. I doubt the successes of those two will be forgotten because Watchmen only broke even with DVD sales. The movie business is always hit or miss, and as stupid as execs are, the one thing they do see is money and marketing potential. Watchmen was targeted at young men in their 20s and early 30s, same as most people, and it only got greenlit because studios saw violence + special effects + superheroes + sex scene as = profit. They will still see this in the future for other projects. They'll still get made. Maybe not with bloated $150 budgets, but they will get made.
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You had to completely change the ending. F*** you! It's like they know they f***ed up so they're going around with this massive campaign to establish this ludicrous idea that they were so faithful. It reminds me of politics in the worst way. Was not faithful and also Snyder cannot direct actors and does not have any handle on material dealing with real emotions or intellect. He should just be called in for 2nd camera work on the S-L-O-W-M-O-....
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The studio showed some balls. But the director (and screenwriters) still delivered a flawed film that doesn't stand up well on its own. I am grateful for all the sacrifices and chances everyone took to get this film on the screen, but unfortunately they made some bad choices and the movie's a mixed bag because of them. If you loved the movie, by all means do as Hayter says and see it on the 2nd weekend so the studio looks at it more positively, but personally I don't want to see it again until the extended version hits on DVD. Hopefully then some of the complaints I've had will be resolved, but there's still that crap "new" ending to dump all over the first 2 1/2 hrs of a fine film (Rorschach's horribbly abreviated origin aside).
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Fuck the haters. (Not you Hayter, lol.) The movie is pure chocolate-covered pussy juice brilliance.
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Watchmen may have had hundreds of people put in hours of blood, sweat & tears but it was all let down by a director (who may have a good vision but) with absolutely no idea how to cut a film together. Peter Jackson syndrome? <p> You want to see a 3 hour film just drift by in no time, talk to kevin costner, Mel Gibson, Peter Weir. <p> This film may hold itself in high regard but here are a couple films which sping to mind which 'did it' better. <p> Dark other worldly (Batman 89) <p> cringe worthy horror scenes (Evil dead 1, 2 & 3) <p> raunchy sex (Highlander 3, the big hit - with the chicken) <p> Over all dark and bleak tone with a desperation to set things right but with little chance of success (Revenge of the sith) <p> 3 hours of easy flowing action (Dances with wolves, Master and commander) <p> here's a question... why does this film have no fucking score???? THAT is death to any film
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Watchmen was far from a perfect adaptation, but I had a great time seeing it anyways. After all the analysis and comparisons, I keep going back to that fact. Even if the creators of the film didn't "get it" or whatever, they have so much more respect for the material than most in show business. If I wanted no changes, and the exact same tone and look, I would just read the fucking comic again. Hating things is the new loving them in geek culture I guess, have fun.
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... i want to see it again - but not this weekend - got a bad tooth ache - i liked it a lot - it was a really good visually splendid entertaining 2+ hour MOVIE - its just a fucking movie you knuckle heads - the book was great and deserves all its accolades - the movie is just a good movie based on a great book - next year there will be some other big buzz movie on everyones minds (maybe "the road") - the movie was unsettling and a bit disturbing - like the comic book - and that to me is a triumph - im glad it got made and made the way it is - its not the book but its a good movie - best 3 hr r-rated superhero movie ive ever - i hope the blu ray includes the motion comic and the black freighter cartoon seen
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If it was so loyal where was Lauries hatred for the comedian in the script?
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"Well, I f***ing dare you to say any one of those things about this movie." <P> Nice ramble, Dave, but sadly I have to say all those things about your movie. <P> For the record, I've seen it twice at IMAX and I'll probably buy the DVD, so there's you're support, but honestly, it's more than this movie deserves. <P> It does have its moments, but really that's just when it occasionally mimics the book successfully. It never finds its own footing, and the rest of the time it feels like something between a bad amateur dramatics play of the comic and some kind of Meet the Spartans spoof (specifically of Apocalypse Now and Kubrick).<p> As for seeing the movie more than once compared with reading the "novel" again? The book's ending leaves you reeling, compelling you to revisit it, and when you do you find so many hidden messages and easter eggs. The film? You need to see it again in the hope it improves. Which it does, somewhat, in so far as you know what to expect. <P> And after seeing it twice, I just think you and Snyder missed the point. You missed the point with your portrayal of Adrian, you missed the point with Rorschach's pivotal flashback (everything else with him was great though), you missed the point with the chainsaw scene, and you really missed the point with the ending.<P> And you've openly said that that was a choice you made. So, if it drops off the radar after the first weekend, you only have yourself to blame. <P> You could have written a unique, brain-frying jaw-dropping finale that ripped unsuspecting movie-goers' minds open and then chilled them to the marrow. Instead you burped out a hum-drum forgettable finish. Word of mouth, baby.<P> <I>No wonder you're here now, sitting on the edge of the talkbackers' bed, drunk and crying like a baby.
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March 12, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST
I hate Geekdom so much right now! We deserve all the shit to co
by Redbox Vacation
He's very right. <BR> I think this movie has taught me why Sci-Fi deserves to live mediocrity. <BR> Shows like Battlestar Gallactica, movies like Watchmen are made because someone who cares and is a fan has a little power, when they fail, that voice is extinguished and replaced by another idiot Hollywood douche. I can find fault with this film in comparison with the masterpiece the book is, but not in comparison with other films. <BR> In its imperfection it is Fellini meets Apocalypse Now, meets X-men. An entirely new movie, like I have never seen and I can't wait to see the director's cut. My god we will never see Hollywood even try this again because its not mainstream enough for popcorn movie fans and "Arthouse Film" lovers are too snobby to watch a "supehero movie." It is a hybrid and an original vision, no matter how much it owes to the book, it is flawed but brilliant and all the people who vehemently hate it will forget their arrogance as it follows "Blade Runner" and other "under appreciated in their own time" milestones into historical beloved status. Those who call it "pseudo intellectual" are snobs in decline. Those who tell you it's a comic and should not be made into a film, forget that it is indeed still a comic, and that 90% of all film, from the beginning of time is inspired from literature. Those who take their children and then get angry that its and R rated movie, well...grow up...it's an R rated movie. <BR> I'm walking out after Watchmen. I peer out into the world seeing little connection to my peers. Like Silvia Plath during the Rosenberg trials, I have no idea who to relate to and where I'll find my bearings. A world so obviously lost to its own context. If I were to design a context to all the views and voices that have lashed out with arrogance and populism, it would be like this: <BR> We live in a cultural mix of sophisticated infancy. On one hand, those striving to be considered as well thought and tasteful vacillate between two poles. <BR> The scornful erudites; those who truly get the profundity of culture, art, science, craft and all refined achievements while often missing many of the shifting paradigms that break from their precious cannon of formerly rebellious and now commonly held conventions. Paradigms that often re-ignite the very lust to create that birthed the things they find precious in life. <BR> The hollow but sly trend watchers, who possess uncanny but limited vision into the heart of practical one-upsmanship. Not spectacularly concerned or able to cope with profound and deeply unmanageable "big picture" bits of philosophical, theological or sociological systems, these bureaucratic chameleons study the guise and traits of the positions they find most fulfilling or personally aspiring and make their nest there, happy and content in the bitter, but structurally protective institutions of "after the risk" and "before the fall." <BR> Neither are prepared or inspired to take chances. They have not witnessed the burden of those who do, but they have great appreciation for the calamity, the spectacle and the risk it will incur their nests and utopias. <BR> On the other hand, somewhere off in a more definable realm, people want shit to do. They want to throw off their fucking jobs and responsibilities, relax with a fucking beer, talk some shit with friends, fuck their chick or dude and make the time between 9 and 5 go as far away as it possibly can. They don't connect with big brained bullshit, they don't question shit that makes them upset or gives them a fucking panic attack. They don't aspire to luxury in the form of the profundity of the collective accomplishments of humanity. They share the perspective of the social construct. They know only short escapes. They are bored with all but the most intoxicating thrills and numbing agents. They are for the most part, unaware or excited by the heights of their visual sophistication and numb to modern communication methods that would keep their forefathers in their closets, bible in hand, wishing away hellspawn. <BR> None of them, the snob, the hack nor the laymen appreciate the goods that have been put in front of them. <BR> Many have written essays on why they won't be watching watchmen. Moore is right, instead of inspiring us to break convention, pompous bloggers, film critics and others hug convention and use it to somehow soapbox their own opinions. For the most part the "Watchmen reaction" is in its explosive nature and volume, proof of it's impact. <BR> I'm a bit sick with the loss of true film critique. The snobs deem it unworthy by genre, the simples think it's boring because it doesn't cater to their need for fast paced thrills, the fans deem it not the book. as if it could be. <BR> The people who seem the most clear are the folks who never read the book, who when they love it, recognize it as something entirely new to film.
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Terry Gilliam, Paul Greengrass and Darren Aronofsky were considering making it. Instead we got fucking shit head Snyder. The movie was shite. I would probably give it a C- or a D. Terrible acting and horrible soundtrack. Also the over the top violence was lame. All problems were Snyder's fault, that's clear.
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A TB a bit ago, I had a convo going with TheOriginalBubblehead and I mentioned I was one of the only guys from the "old days" still hanging around here. <p> You replied telling me the same thing as you are to Hayter, to "Get over yourself", and proceeded to "educated" me that there are lots of people at AICN who have been here for 12 yrs too. <p> What you misunderstood was this: Bubblehead and I still have our same names and were part of a core group of posters that posted at the very first AICN message board. When I said I'm the only one still around, I meant the only one from that group 12 years ago. <p> I'm sure you don't give a shit, but I meant to set you right.
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trying to deem this film the new Blade Runner. Oh how fucking depressing you people can be. And fuck the editors of this site for throwing too many stories on this film. FFS I don't even think Avatar will get this much AICN postings when it releases. And Dark Knight didn't get it either, yet it was clear that was so fucking vastly superior to this mediocre shit.
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I still say "fuck that". I watch shit when and if I want to. Makes not ONE fucking difference if I loathed it or if I thought that it was amazing. I still might prefer to wait until it's out on DVD before I bother watching it again, and fuck anyone who tries to tell me that it's my duty as a fan to either see it again eventually or see it again this weekend. Makes no difference whether or not the movie was awesome or if it sucked. I watch shit WHENEVER I want to watch it. I am not responsible for the the future state of smart geek movies. I didn't make the fucking movie, I didn't market it, I didn't write it, and it is NOT my fucking job to make sure that it has a good second week. Even if I LOVED the movie, fuck this shit. Fan or not, I'll watch movies whenever I fucking want to.
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Her hatred for the Comedian was sorta there... but her hatred and distrust of Rorschach was gone. It's a testament to how good Haley's performance was that so many people think of Rorschach as one of the stronger characters in the film, when his character was shortchanged in the adaptation nearly as badly as Ozymandias.
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That part where he throws boiling oil on the dude... that should have been sam raimi funny. same with the arms being cut off. it wasn't cool, it was demented. even the murder of the pedaphile - it just wasn't cool, it didn't have any soul. <p> Who cares if Hollywood doesn't make any more of these films. I'll take dark knight over dick tracy vs the shadow any day. <p> but i never read the graphic novel and knew nothing of watchmen til it sprung up here last year. that said, you screwed me out of my cash and i even dodged a toilet break in case I 'missed' anything. I missed my instincts to just walk out - like half the cinema did. <p> also, the word of mouth is destroying this film. I've yet to meet anyone who actually 'loved' it.
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Was The Smartest Man In The World's plan really to use Dr Manhattan to save the world by - get this - spending billions at a secret Antartic fortress copying Manhattan's power, then cleverly getting rid of Doctor Manhattan, only to impersonate him? <P> Why didn't he just ask him, to start with? They were mates, right? They were working together?<P> Fuck me, Manhattan was already on his way back from Mars to do the job. Adrian only had to wait another 35 minutes and he could have saved himself the effort. <P> Verdict: No Adrian, you didn't do the right thing (not that he asked).
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I admit, I'm coming late to the WATCHMEN party. I started collecting comics when I could buy Amazing Fantasy #15 off the rack in the drugstore. And I did. But somehow, sadly,inexplicably, I grew up and missed Watchmen when it first came out. I bought it a few weeks before the movie came out, and I saw that it was special. When the movie came out, I thought it was a great COMIC BOOK movie, maybe one of the best yet, maybe THE best. The changed ending...better. Yes, better. Movies are not comics. Movies are not books. They do different things, reach for different goals. The movie's riff on the irony of super-heroing in that world,that the ultimate hero saves the world by threatening to destroy it, is, I think, completely in keeping with the spirit of the book. It's not the EXACT SAME THING, but if it were, it wouldn't have ANY heart. Also, if it were, the movie would be shot with a Sony HandyCam and have a papier mache squid. I love watching movies of my favorite icons. I love watching attempts to put these icons in as realistic a setting, telling a smart story. I WANT MORE. And while Hayter's pitch is something akin to "watch this movie or I'll shoot the dog", he is right. If you rigid fanboys can't see this, you're likely to lose the chance to see more, better attempts. Climb out of the basement, put on your clean T-shirts, and tell Mom you're going to see WATCHMEN again. Or make the fucking movie yourselves, and see how far you get. Appreciate the attempt.
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I do remember that, and also remember not checking back. And to clarify, i wasnt here from day one.. but was here when talkback only ever reached about 20 posts
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And its that different people can have different interpretations for the book and film and how it should have been adapted. <p> Case in point- your belief that the scene where Rorscach throws boiling cooking fat on another prisoner. YOU think it should be Sam Raimi funny? <p> Someone else might think you're nuts. Another might say you're an idiot. <p> And still another might say "Everyone in my theater laughed at that moment" or that they "cheered with glee". <p> Same goes for the arms being cut off. Its opinion man. Get used to it.
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when i read this way back in 1987 i didn't like it.i guess i didn't understand the story.i was 19 then now i'm 43.an i gotta say now i get it.an this movie is a great one.i love the story an the hero's.i can't wait to see it again an for the dvd to come out.
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I just got lucky and found this site looking for images from the SW: Special Editions. We stopped posting once the message board changed to a ridiculously complicated format, and I steered clear from the TB's initially. <p> But I've started posting more and more in the past 2 years, finding some charm in certain TBers and the way TB politics can be extremely predictable at times, and at others wildly surprising. <p> And to be fair, that last TB, I checked back days after it had already fallen off the Top Ten to see if Bubblehead sent me his email address. I don't think I posted a reply bc I was sure no one else was going to ever read it again. Which tends to happen when stories fall out of the top ten =).
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some awesome prose there. It was very interesting reading it. I had to actually slow down a bit to absorb it all. Very descriptive and creative. You should have a career in writing, my friend.
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you poured blood, sweat and tears into it, or if laughed every day at how easy and fun it was. We don't see that, we don't feel it. The finished product is what get, what WE experience--your experience making it does not make it more or less worthy to us.<p>And, if studios, as a result of us not all going out and spending our hard earned money to see it again this weekend, will decide against future endeavors that are shallow, vicseral interpretations without depth of character, story, and offend the dedicated fans of the original with almost no regard, well, I would say they will have made a good and correct choice.
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March 12, 2009, 10:19 p.m. CST
holy shit john stewart is making mad money guy
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
almost cry on tv. this is harsh tv.
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true fans would not corrupt the original story--and if the story telling in the film is so shallow, the characters so thin that the assumption is we will get it because we read the novel, well then, maybe you oughta STICK to the novel story, you think?
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I liked Adrian's plan in the movie better than the squid anyway, which always seemed beyond preposterous. If you've got a friendly deity walking around on Earth, why not turn his power into the most efficient energy source ever conceived? And while you're at it, end the threat of nuclear war and probably start a new religion at the same time? Makes sense to me!
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On one dimension for sure. It won't be followed by copy-cat films that try to ape its success. It's the kind of film that gets made once a decade. Near as I can tell, Watchmen (both the comic and movie) is the finest graphical example of deconstructionism ever created. But...deconstructionism has dried up. No. There was one 'Apocalypse Now' and one 'Blue Velvet'; this film is in those leagues.
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Ignore these whiney fucking babies. You guys got a lot more right than you got wrong. the non-squid ending was particularly well done. I woulda preferred the Ozy/Manhattan conversation to stay in, and hope there are some more character bits in the eventual bluray, but really, ignore these mewling little twits who are determined to hate the movie for daring not to be exactly what they wanted. And hey, I'll take Scorpion King over that POS Eyes Wide Shut any day.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say they made a film that offended dedicated fans of the original with almost no regard. It wasn't Schwarzenegger as Manhattan or anything. Clearly it was an attempt to bring an interpreation of the book to the screen <P> But it was a shallow, visceral interpretation. You're not wrong there.
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March 12, 2009, 10:27 p.m. CST
HE IS RIGHT. If you don't get it, you never will. WITCH MTN mu
by noncents
Support Watchmen if you can. Movies usually suck and are FLAT, uncreative as hell, so if you believe in the direction movies are going, support them. WE NEED more of these. They might not all be winners, but I would rather have better efforts than SAFE, mainstream GARBAGE.
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What a way to end it you idiot. Yeah I want to come back after you raped me, and took my dough. So you need a new house by the beach? Kids have to go to school? Yeah it will be the comic fans fault if a badly directed film begins to lose money. What a moron. Yeah the entire industry will collapse, a domino effect. What a farce. He could have been more honest and just asked people to mail money in.
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March 12, 2009, 10:31 p.m. CST
Damn it... just when I thought I was done with this flick...
by ebonic_plague
...Solid Snake dares me to give him my honest opinion. I saw your movie, once, as I got caught up in a herd of friends going to see an Imax showing, so I figured, what the hell. But one let down viewing is more than enough for me to make a determination that I don't need to waste any more time or money on another viewing. Because if this movie doesn't perform well enough to convince the money guys to finance even more pointless violence and ridiculous kung fu adaptations of my favorite comics, that's fucking fine by me. I'd rather a million well done PG-13 adaptations like Dark Knight than another R-rated facepalm inducer like Watchmen. For Hayter to say that the reasons for the inclusion of excessive, juvenile, story-crippling sex and violence and the exclusion of the entire original ending of the story weren't the result of commercial concerns about the potential appeal to a contemporary moviegoing audience, and that the film's failure to keep up it's numbers is the fault of the fans of the graphic novel for being "ingrates" for not fellating their middling efforts ferociously enough, is completely infantile, and I've got the world's tiniest violin playing a sad song for him to walk away down the road like Bill fucking Bixby and cry himself raw. This is Uwe Boll level crying, "If you guys don't support my work, whether you liked it or not, then you won't get ANY more R-rated video game adaptations!" Good! Maybe then free market principles will kick in and someone else might make a comic book adaptation that DOESN'T pretend to be uncompromising while half-assing the things that actually comprise a good movie. If R-rated means a bunch of shoehorned, jarring violence and laughable softcore skinamax interludes, then I'll stick to the comics themselves and let the rest of you convince yourselves that tailoring a movie to fit a pre-determined rating means fuck-all to the end result. Fuck you, Hayter, fuck your movie, fuck your screenplay, and fuck your stupid fucking rape analogy.
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You whining bitches are going to be the ones responsible for turning the next attempt by WB at adapting 'unfilmable' material into a complete and utter atrocity. YOU. Not the casual movie goer. You. Why? Because this film was obviously made with you assholes in mind... and Snyder forgot that NOTHING will satisfy you pussies. Think of all the things he COULD have done to fuck with Watchmen, and compare that with the film you just watched (assuming you butterdicks actually went to see it). This is going to be the closest adaptation you will EVER see in the theater; of ANYTHING. And WB is learning the lesson that movies that try to appease the fans don't make enough money. Wait for the sequel they'll have to make to recoup the money they lost on this one; Niteowl and Laurie will have a child that kicks ass and has a changie-face just like Rorschach! His dick will be blue and dangly and he'll be a secret nazi, and then he'll get gang raped by a group of squids at Comicon. Niteowl will be forced to 'put the mantle on just ONE more time' to put things right. Oh, and Alfred will get sick. Fuck. You. All. You're killing good cinema with every whine you utter, and with each cheeto-fueled screed you throw another shovel of dirt on a spectacular third Batman film. You've earned every fucking inch of film of Wolverine.
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D.vader. I use the term Sam Raimi funny for lack of a better description. See, i think he missed the comedy angle completely with darkman - which i find this film comparable too. <p> The point i was trying to make is that when something happens on screen, the resulting audience reaction really ought to be that of a positive nature - even for the most grizly of scenes. <p> seeing a man in agonizing pain is just too real. Now, lets say we actually saw a look of sheer utter disbelief from the oil victim, followed immediately by the dismisal of this character and his plight by throwing in some swift footwork - this guy could leap up the side of a building - or was that just for some 'coolness' and never to be explored? <p> I'm not opposed to horror and violence in film. But i do demand that it be enjoyable and relevant - as if the filmmakers and cast are treating the audiance as if we are somehow "in on the gag". This film had nothing at all like that. I don't want to hate it, i just do, is all. <p> <p> <p> In fact, I'm embarrased for all the guys taking girls out on dates to this film. nights like that can destroy all chances of sex with a gorgeous pristine woman. you all know this to be true. so unless you like fucking Goths, this aint a date movie... but it never claimed to be i guess so i really should just stop ranting and get back to work <p> it's just that i know the makers are reading and I have some honest things to say <p> "next time, lighten up a little"
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"Is it Apocalypse Now? Is it Blade Runner? Is it Kubrick, or Starship Troopers?" No. No it isn't.
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You know, you’re right! How could I not have seen it before?!?!! Thank you for showing me the light. What the hell was I thinking? This movie isn’t among the most boring events I’ve witnessed in a cinema!<P>On a technical level, it was BRILLIANT the way they used make-up effects on the same level as that used by film makers of 1980s! True creative prowess, sir. Sure they spent kazillions on modern day CG but you can overlook that because so much of it looked so shoddy that you could almost believe they were created using the latest Atari circa 1991! At no stage did that blue man ever look to come into physical contact with his co-stars. Which is good, because that guy gives people cancer. Blue cancer.<P>By making him look completely separate from his real life co-stars, not only did they keep it looking like it was filmed 80 years ago, but they kept away any kind of tension or …. excitement that would arise if there was a possibility that he’d bump right into them. Or make their hair move….<P>You’re right about there being brains. The Mars scenes were cool AND educational. For example, I had no idea that Mars was completely hand drawn. True! It’s like I’ve never been on Wikipedia or watched He-Man!! Newb alert, CyanBlues36 has entered teh chit chat room!! LOLed my arse off!<P>I’ve actually read a few pages of the Watchmen graphic novella before I stopped and decided to build a boat out of toothpicks & sleep wax and I could see the same pacing on the screen. Captured!! Normally when a filmmaker adapts a comic book, the first thing they do is wrench the words free of their constrained one box per sentence settings, and evolve them, extend them into a more natural, free flowing cinematic river of wonder, like those hacks did with The Dark Knight. Thank god you stuck to your pow-pows and the stilted dialogue, we’ve all grown to love and not memorise remains as unengaging as ever.<P>To be honest I was a bit worried that Zackary may attempt to distract us from the short exposition heavy sentence and plotting by playing fitting music to evoke the emotions and time period, but, saved again! He must have had his Slony NPEG player stuck on random so none of it made any sense and would remove me completely from a movie experience and plunge me back into those few pages I’d managed to choke down so many weeks before. I’m gonna draw a hat, but it on my head and then take it off to you Captain Zacko!<P>And now that I think on it and take in my fellow cinema-going colleagues and well-wishers arguments as to the thickly disguised brilliance of Watchmen (is it called watchmen coz they anticipate the audience checking their watch constantly? “Foresightful filmmaking”, that’s what I call it!), I can see how it’s a good thing that Watchmen throws off the shackles and clichés of every other comic book movie and does the opposite thing to having actors that look like the presidents they’re playing, practical plot lines, memorable scores, invisible make-up effects, blip-on-a-radar villains, unhead untiltingly unodd blue lion-rabbits and fun, inspired action set pieces (every time I think of that batbike scene in The Fart Knight, I gag heaps). Thank God for progress. Let’s hope that it makes a MINT in Mexico so I can get a fully loaded El Directo Cutto of the film that features an additional 220 minutes of long stares, paced walking, blue penguin elephants, added blimps, more shots of the twin towers, an outtake reel featuring funny shapes in rawsharks hoodhead thing and a directors commentary where ZcG explains more of the symbolism, metaphors and other subtle nuances that the characters didn’t elaborate and spell out during the course of the prison sentence, I mean ‘runtime’. Oh wait, the characters already did demystify any kind of subtlety the movie had to offer? Oh well, just give me more monologues from that blonde villain coz I could listen to him read cereal ingredients for 12 minutes (in fact I think I did) and think it was a wordy chocolate milkshake for my thirsty, chubby ears.<P>Yes, Dave, I now see the light. What a great, great achievement Watch[outforthegreatgoodmovie]men is. And, yet, I could write more. I won’t because I have restraint, something I pray to the gods Zack Snyder never, ever, ever learns. We should start an online partition demanding he direct a movie about sea turtles! He’s perfect for it. They don’t anything, move only in slow motion and last 200 years!!<P>Set it up, champ!
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Sir, I don't know if you're still reading this Talk Back and certainly wouldn't blame you if you aren't. Whereas I agree that Watchmen did not "puss out" when it came to being rated R, there's plenty of valid criticism having more to do with the story than the stylistic content. I could not help but read this letter and think the studio believed they were in some kind of trouble. I read your script and genuinely liked a lot of what the Watchmen got right style wise, but just wasn't fufilled in terms of story. Like many here, I'll be looking forward to the extended editions. David, in summation I'm saying we as a fan base should not have to wait for such things...never compromise, David...just like Walter.
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Hahahaha!!! I'm betting it's not a glass of warm milk you curl up with at bedtime! :-D Seriously, you should pitch that sequel to WB!!!
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...Hayter's letter was a misstep. It's badly written, and therefore isn't going to inspire anyone to want to see any film with his name on it.
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I actually thought the boiling fat scene and the amputation scene were darkly comic. Grisly, yes, but shot in a way that didn't feel deadly serious like a horror film or something out of Hostel (which begs the question, based on your previous post, do you think seeing someone in pain is just "too real" and a scene such as that should elicit a positive reaction out of the audience too? Were you condemning horror films as well?). <p> The boiling fat scene was a bit more serious (bc there was not as much setup), but the audience I was with was happy to see Rorshach hold his own against a bigger brute, and glad to see him improvise with the boiling fat (or were glad to see it translated faithfully). <p> As for the amputation scene, I don't remember it happening like that in the book, but found it demented, a feeling that was helped by the fact that "Big Figure" was cast as Kramer's friend from Seinfeld.
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This isn't exactly a good idea considering most of the fans will happily eat shit if it has thier funny strip heroes in it.
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you haters STILL bitch when a good flick is made. I can understand faithful followers of the GN to complain here or there, but to the uninitiated, wtf more do you want?? Finally we get a hard R rated superhero film, that doesn't pull any punches, and people bitch about it. I'm willing to bet the same people who dislike Watchmen loved Transformers, ID4, Fast & the Furious etc. You have no taste. Michael Bay and directors like him make shit and you eat it up. Someone makes something good and it's above you. Sorry if there wasn't a big *boom* every 5 minutes to keep your RedBull chugging, text-tweaking, gogo mass consuming brains entertained. Sheesh...you people.
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...http://www.tinyurl.com.au/x.php?1pee...oh Harry, you've changed!
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"If you care about movies that have a brain, or balls, (and this film's got both, literally), or true adaptations"<br /><br />This movie had neither brains or balls. Especially not balls. Blue dude had no balls. WTF?!?<br /><br />Look, I can respect you wanting to do justice to the source material, but this movie was boring. Mainly because it never really settles on a theme OR a plot. Movies need more focus than books or comics.
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I thought it was a good graphic novel, and it's clear it inspired modern comics direction. But I wasn't fawning over it like other people. Still I just couldn't like this badly made movie. Snyder's a horrible director.
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That's funny. But to be fair, Harry says nothing in this post we're in about Hayter, so I don't think he's REALLY contradicting himself on this one. He may have hated Hayetr's work in other films, that doesn't mean he has to hate EVERY movie the dude works on.
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They fought to make this movie. Have you read about the bullshit the studio tried to force on this movie? These people worked hard to bring a work of art to the screen with as few compromises as possible and retards are shitting all over it. Get over it. It's a great movie.<p>The next time a studio focus groups the shit out of a movie it will be YOUR fault for shitting on Watchmen.<p> Seriously go see it.
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then they're just going to use that $$$ as justification for a sequel. You're damned if you do...
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First time I read watchmen i had snorted a copious amount of ritalin and cocaine, and had been on it without sleep for three days. You are right--there is subliminal shit all over the place in watchmen---when you're high. IF you're sober now, go back, reread it and educate all of us on the subliminal messages. Without drugs, they aren't there.
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I'm with you - I'm no fan of the novel. But I really think Snyder is a good technical director, but not so great as an emotional director. What I mean is the dude knows how to make a movie look good, but I doubt he knows how to draw a performance out of an actor. It's the reason other genre flicks have been great as of late. Iron Man and Dark Knight have real actor's directors at the helm. They can elicit wonderful performances from the actors they work with. They have a vision of the whole. Snyder hasn't learned that yet. He's still making "cool" looking movies instead of thought provoking cinema.
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...A screenwriter frankly BEGGING folks to spend money to watch his movie. Next thing you know, Joe Biden will be telling us it's our patriotic DUTY to go see 'Watchmen'.<br><br> WB / Legendary must be shitting their pants. And I bet Fox, guaranteed to earn a percentage no matter how much money the film loses, is laughing all the way to Spago.<br><br> But, hey, look, I'm hardly a Hayter hater. Regardless of the fear-scented cologne he's apparently chosen to cannonball into, it's sort of endearing to see someone grovel so sincerely. I WILL be seeing 'Watchmen' for a third time, but not because Mr. Hayter offered to do the laundry for a month... It's simply because, like he and many others I suspect, I still don't know what the Hell I THINK about the film, and I owe it to the original comic series to give it one more chance before I put it out of mind until the "ultimate edition" hits Best Buy or Amazon.<br><br> Gee, maybe if Bryan Singer'd done this, he'd still be in charge of the Superman franchise...
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Maybe not.
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I watched it the first time analyzing what was different from the GN. I tried not to, but that's just how the fan's mind works. I'm checking it again this Saturday to pad the weekend gross, I do hope this thing does well, and I don't mind voting with my dollar. What else is there to see, anyway? Paul Blart?
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I'm sorry that some of us have differing opinions. I'm sorry that a bunch of people worked hard on this and got paid a ton of money for working on a fantasy while other citizens of this country lost their jobs due to the recession. But, you know, Hollywood's a tough place. $150 million dollars for a movie about emo dudes dressing up in costumes while Americans are living in tent cities. I guess that's fair. But I digress. Hollywood people need their $5.00 lattes. How else can we get terrific material like the Scorpion King and a remake of Dawn of the Dead?
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Support the fun, entertaining kind of movie that's blown off by people who are too serious-minded for their own fucking good. The kinda flick that's full of asses getting kicked and gorgeous real-life locations and hot chicks and over-the-top Chris Klein goofiness. See somethin' that makes you SMILE, god dammit.
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And fear not! I will! Eventually, when I get off my ass and put forth the actual effort that is. I am, truthfully, really horrible when it comes to sending out and replying to emails and rmails (that's real mail). So I apologize for the delay.
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March 12, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST
A begging letter. This is more than a little embarrassing.
by bravogolfhotel
I gather the numbers are not looking so hot. Nonetheless, I'll be happy to go see it again this weekend. I was surprised and gratified by how much of the heart of the book came through, and I want to reward that.
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"So look, this is a note to the fanboys and fangirls. The true believers. Dedicated for life."<br /><br />Somehow I missed that line. I think it's because he started comparing this movie to truly great films of cinema history. From then on, I couldn't take the letter seriously. And since I'm neither fanboy OR girl of the source material, and have never read the graphic novel, I shall apologize and bid you adieu.
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I do not buy for a second the idea that the film will fail financially purely on account of misleading marketing. The reason for this? Slumdog Millionaire. "Feel Good Film Of The Decade!!" A wacky knockabout Bollywood rom com! Such was the crux of the blather in the posters - no further could that be from the film. And the result? It's STILL chokin on its own green, and what's this i heard about some bald headed fella bein the terrible fan, and... No. It can possibly hurt it, but not to the ultimate Fail or Succeed extent bein suggested here. And by the by, whilst Kubrick is seriously overrated, he certainly COULD, contrary to whoever suggested otherwise, direct actors. slap on The Making Of The Shining for a time for proof of that. THIS picture i saw this evening. Much i admired. Much i thought was god-awful. some i thought was repugnant and vile and which that "sally" remark does nothing to change my opinion of. but there you go.
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I'm going to see Paul Blart for the fifth time. Fuck American film making, keep seeing Taken as well.
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So..... different.. Cheers!
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More Watchmen crap...
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But most of the people i talked to that hated it did not even read the book.....EVER. only thing i wanted when it was over was MORE!
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Special pleading though it may be, Hayter has assiduously duplicated the tone of the average talkback: wild hyperbole, needless profanity, crude humor; if the film were not proof enough, he's got a gift for pastiche.
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He's right on the money as far as I'm concerned. When I first read Watchmen eight years ago, it didn't resonate with me as it does today. Same with Blade Runner. That took the recent box set for me to realize that. My problem with both those works? They didn't meet my expectations at the time. Watchmen didn't have Batman or Superman or any hero I knew and cared about. Rick Dekkard was not Indiana Jones or Han Solo. I had to get over myself. The more I watch Blade Runner and the more I read Watchmen, the better and better those works get, the more I appreciate them. I definitely will see Watchmen again. And I loved it the first time.
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Don't let it die a cinematic death! Don't let it become some cult classic!.... oops too late.
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No prob. hangdaiwu@yahoo.com.
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March 12, 2009, 11:41 p.m. CST
the fuel of the Nerd Mafia is disappointment and exclusion.
by GoodTimeBobby
"The fuel of the Nerd Mafia is disappointment and exclusion." - Patton Oswald
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Slumdog money is because it doesn't really appeal to members with the other thing that's not a penis between their legs. The closets thing that this movie has to female appeal is the dude from Grey's Anatomy being in it, that is the only reason my lady friend is willing to go see it with me.
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Hey everybody just so you know Fanboys is widening again this weekend. If you don't see it you will be banned from this site.
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Outlander is still out there in theaters and is a real crowd pleaser. All 7 people in the theater that I saw it in rated it either good or above average, and yes all of them were over 40 save for me? I thought old people only saw crap like Pink Panter 2 and Jonas Brothers go 3-D. BBBAABEHY!
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And that'll be the fate of this film too.
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Just because the studio let the director take this much control and have the freedom to direct his vision in this or any other case doesn't make the end result a success. For my part, I think it did some things brilliantly and other things left me scratching my head or at other times nodding off because the flood of information and backstory about each character is formatted as it was in the book, with very little to break up long tracts of character details. It's a glaring flaw that can't be ignored even when the ending did pick up the pace and interest level.<br></br>Hollywood is likely to take all the wrong messages from how well or not well this film does anyway (they may just think that they need to make Green Lantern a sex addict who pounds his foes into greasy gristle with his powers - which the camera will show up close in nauseating detail - because after all Watchmen never turned the camera away for even the most graphic sex and violence, and that was a success, right? Assuming it is successful, that's just as likely the message they'll think they're getting from us, the audience. So leave it alone. If you liked it enough to see it again, do that. If not, don't It's just that simple.
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Slumdog may only have cost 10mil (ONLY, he says!) but still, regardless of that, it DID come with a totally misleading ad campaign and still, despite being a totally different picture to the one that a large number of folks expected to see, drew, and continues to draw, the crowds. there are plenty reasons for this - the film was gorgeous, the word of mouth was strong, the awards and what have you... all of that comes back to, marketing or no, if a lot of folks are going to see something, and it's hittin with them, more folks will follow. if Watchmen isn't bringing those self same folks, it's nothing to do with any dissapointment that there wasn't more blowin stuff up. (that's not to say a fair ammount of viewers WON'T be annoyed that there wasn't more blowin stuff up. but it's not make or break, is what i mean), it's because, just maybe, there's somethin wrong with the film. but then again, maybe not. plenty things have been ignored by plenty people for the wrong reasons. but i doubt that ever happened purely because an ad campaign promised something the film itself didn't deliver. Series, i don't know that the appeal of these things is as clearly cut, gender-wise, as that. i think there's been enough snoopin done around the "who is goin to see these things" hovel for to suggest that a fair percentage of those in dire need of a film about men grunt and women get grunted at are female. and since this is the place it's happening, i'll throw here a line about What Them Watchmen Done For Me - I thought the comic was sublime and beautiful but prone to occasionally very embaressing adolescent posing and a touch disturbing (and not in a good way) with regards that whole rape issue. that thread - potentially repugnant in the comic - became TRULY repugnant in the film. that was dissapointing, is what that was. that's nothing to do with having "Balls" or being "dark", that's to do with bein a misogynist piece of wank. which is sad, for there's plenty in Watchmen From The Visionairy Director Of 300 that i adored - the Doc On Mars business being best of all. and if there was a lot - a HELL of a lot - that felt very flat, well, i still appreciated that somethin at least halfways challengin was up there in those clothes, even if it owed all its challenging faces to the source material, and even if it appeared to understand those challenges not one iota. but the rape - the scene, the resoloution, all of it - was abhorant. vile. pathetic. and it makes it difficult to get overly enthusiastic about the rest. if anyone wishes, i'm willin to hear Why I'm Wrong. But i don't believe i am.
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To quote the Comedian. <P> For months now, Snyder, yes Hayter, and even that shill Gibbons (who I still love as an artist) have airily talked about how they'd changed the ending and "not to worry, it wasn't essential, we found something equally as good, better!" <P> Well, the proof's in the profit. People are coming out of that film utterly non-plussed.<P> Too late to sit here crying for support now, Dave. You guys knew what the fans wanted. Go beg to the mainstream audience you were so desperate to cater to before.
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I think it's funny how anyone would think that Hollywood ever gets the right message from its audience. It's all about money, people. Hollywood cares not about the artistry of movies. The truth is that Dark Knight made money, so now their rushing Green Lantern and scrambling for a new Superman. But if Wolverine bombs, or Hollywood perceives a change in the wind of comic fanboys, they'll move on to the next money maker.
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David, I would love to hang with you bro. You really are one of us. Snyder is one of us. This film is a monument to what geeks stand for. People hate this movie hate it because they are caught up about the fact that it is not the graphic novel. It is SO much more bold and honest than any of the other crap films that Hollywood has put out in years. EVEN THE DARK KNIGHT. Stop hating this film and open your mind to what this film is... A DAMN HONEST AND INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE. It is quite refreshing to have something of such high quality to enjoy. Does it have "flaws"? I am sure that many will argue that point, but that is yet another point of proof that it DOES represent humanity. BECAUSE HUMANITY ITSELF IS FLAWED!!! I love this film, and I will see it again.
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March 13, 2009, 12:12 a.m. CST
Patton Oswalt can go fuck a deep fried pumpkin
by Kenny_Fuckin_Powers
he said watchmen was awesome before he saw it. i wanna see what he has to say now.
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In this economy, are you really asking people to go out and spend money on this AGAIN? Have you no shame? 3 friends of mine lost their jobs last week, and Mr. Hayter wants me to encourage them to see Watchmen even once? Is this a joke? Seriously, dude, move on to a new project. If you really love Watchmen, be greatful that you worked on it and leave it at that. Then turn on the news and get in touch with the rest of the country. There's enough negative shit on there to choke an elephant, I don't need it in my comic book movies as well.
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Mr. Hayter: First, the amped-up violence and sex didn’t make the film more “adult,” it actually made it more juvenile, because it was purely for shock value instead of being in service to the story, period. (And putting it in the same sentence as Apocalypse Now or Bladerunner or 2001, for Chrissake, is simply delusional.) Second, don’t tell me to go see the film a second time, or else “we won’t get more films like it!” This laughable tactic reminds me of comedian Larry Miller’s routine: “When I broke up with my girlfriend, she said, ‘you’ll never find another one like me again!’” And I said, “I should certainly hope NOT. If I didn’t like YOU… then why would I want someone EXACTLY LIKE YOU?!” Dude, I don’t WANT more movies like Watchmen – I want stuff that’s BETTER. There’s a reason why The Dark Knight made a billion dollars worldwide, and your film is going to disappear from theaters in two more weeks – it’s because (wait for it…) Watchmen isn’t that good, and general audiences aren’t responding positively to it or finding it memorable at all. I saw it opening day in IMAX, found it okay as I was watching it, but then it faded from memory about 5 minutes after I walked out of the theater, and I have zero interest in seeing it again. Next time, make a movie that both fanboys and the general public can get behind. It’s that simple.
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Good post.
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Nice.
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Someone should hit Hayter in the face with a pipe. Repeatedly.
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i quite enjoyed the movie and even thought it was better than dark knight. now i dare hollywood to adapt a truly great graphic novel - moebius' airtight garage...
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I hate when people defend a boring movie by saying that the "haters" just want a movie with big explosions. Cause you know what? Yeah, sometimes I do! Nobody seemed to have any problems with Dark Knight having some of the biggest, mindless explosions in any movie last year. It's because it's called ACTION. it helps to push the story along while creating compelling visuals for the eye. And besides, when I see an ad for a movie about dudes dressing up in costume to be crimefighters, I want them to FIGHT SOME CRIME, not get into empty discussions about the end of the world or be all angsty about their past. I know that sometimes you need to break the mold, but some molds just shouldn't be broken.
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wasn't flawless. It had a weak ending. The movie was not worse than the comic in that regard.
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But when the hell are we going to see a Blade of the Immortal movie. Manji makes Wolverine look like a kitten. :)
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As a film, it comes off as too serious. The comic often seems like a bit of a send-up...but I think the movie isn't capable of walking that line. The comic book takes place in a goofy world--not OUR world. But on film it seems a bit more like our world, and you have to wonder about all the things that seemed plausible on the page. But having said that: I don't get why non-fans didn't rush to see it just on the weirdness of the trailers alone. Maybe bad timing after TDK?
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...as opposed to Terry Gilliam, Paul Greengrass and Darren Aronofsky, other potential directors.<p> It's odd; Snyder isn't as good a directer as Gilliam or Aranofsky (maybe he's in the same league as Greengrass)... but I think he made a far better Watchmen movie than they could have. Just the right person at the right time. The others would have all made FAR bigger changes than just the squid.
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Please. PLEASE.
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Hollywood needs your ability to see into other realities so they can pick the right directors for every project.
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If the fans don't support this movie, Hollywood will forever bail on closely adapted films. They'll quote Watchmen as an example of how things go wrong when you stay too close to the source material. The long and the short of it, and really think about. This movie was as faithful an adaptation of the original material as Jackson's Lord of the Rings. I would dare say this is closer a translation than Jackson's effort. If you're a fan of the graphic novel there is no reason to not love this movie. I felt nothing but rewarded by this movie, and any fan should. There was a huge effort made with this movie, and I'd love to see others stories brought to life with as much love. People will nitpick this movie for details, but applaud Stephen Speilberg for Jurassic Park. Have you ever read those books? Talk about an unfaithful adaptation. So in closing, climb off your high horse and really think about what he said. Because it is true, if you don't support this film then you're consigning yourself to what Hollywood thinks is best over fans. Your saying I'd rather bitch about details behind my keyboard than get out there and support a damn fine translation.
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If the fans don't support this movie, Hollywood will forever bail on closely adapted films. They'll quote Watchmen as an example of how things go wrong when you stay too close to the source material. The long and the short of it, and really think about. This movie was as faithful an adaptation of the original material as Jackson's Lord of the Rings. I would dare say this is closer a translation than Jackson's effort. If you're a fan of the graphic novel there is no reason to not love this movie. I felt nothing but rewarded by this movie, and any fan should. There was a huge effort made with this movie, and I'd love to see others stories brought to life with as much love. People will nitpick this movie for details, but applaud Stephen Speilberg for Jurassic Park. Have you ever read those books? Talk about an unfaithful adaptation. So in closing, climb off your high horse and really think about what he said. Because it is true, if you don't support this film then you're consigning yourself to what Hollywood thinks is best over fans. Your saying I'd rather bitch about details behind my keyboard than get out there and support a damn fine translation.
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If the fans don't support this movie, Hollywood will forever bail on closely adapted films. They'll quote Watchmen as an example of how things go wrong when you stay too close to the source material. The long and the short of it, and really think about. This movie was as faithful an adaptation of the original material as Jackson's Lord of the Rings. I would dare say this is closer a translation than Jackson's effort. If you're a fan of the graphic novel there is no reason to not love this movie. I felt nothing but rewarded by this movie, and any fan should. There was a huge effort made with this movie, and I'd love to see others stories brought to life with as much love. People will nitpick this movie for details, but applaud Stephen Speilberg for Jurassic Park. Have you ever read those books? Talk about an unfaithful adaptation. So in closing, climb off your high horse and really think about what he said. Because it is true, if you don't support this film then you're consigning yourself to what Hollywood thinks is best over fans. Your saying I'd rather bitch about details behind my keyboard than get out there and support a damn fine translation.
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Makes me think less of Solid Snake. I don't know why nerd culture much less this site cultivates or condones that kind of bullshit.
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FUCK YOU ALL WHINY LIL BITCHES THE MOVIE ROCKED!! DO YOU FUCKING WANT BATMAN & ROBIN ALL OVER YOUR FUCKING SHITHEADS AGAIN? DO YOU WANT SO SUCK BALLS ON ROTHMAN LAND???? IF YOU GET FUCLED BY FOX, NOT EXACLTY MEGAN, HOW CAN YOU ENJOY MOVIES ON YOUR FAVOURITE CHARACTERS? OH YEAAH GOOOD I HOPE IT´S FUCKING GOOD BECAUSE IT´S USELESS NOW?!?! OOOOOOOOHH GOOD IT´S FUCKING DISTRACTING!!!!! DO U WANNA TO FUCKING TRASH EM, TRASH YOUR GOOD MOVIES? FUCK YOU PEOPLE OR IM DOING THE WALKING, BALE KICK YOUR ASSES
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I still think this movie sucked ass. It reminded me of The League of Extraordinary Gentleman and Brotherhood of the Wolf. You have your special effects, kung fu, gore, sex and convoluted plot line. Sometimes less is more gentlemen. Oh yeah, didn’t care much for the blue dick waving around either. The movie was average at best.
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AVATAR. FUCKS. EYE. BALLS.
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ARE FUCKED BY MICHAEL BAY CRAPPY CINEMA LADIES AND GETS
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IF THE MOVIE FAILS!!!!
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I come from the future.
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THAT MY COCK WAS STUFFING HER MOUTH NEW CAMERON DIAZ BABY..BOOM SPIDERMAN UNDER WATER!
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Did this letter break on here or on that web site that I've never heard of?
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LITTLE NICKY SAYS HI
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NOW AMERICAN FLAT MINDED CROWDS DON´T GET IT AND THEY ARE EYEBALL FUCKED BY MCDONALDS.
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Am not really sure what the hell you just wrote. Was there a question in their? A rebuttal to a statement I made? Stream of consciousness ramblings? Whats going on.
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to see it, maybe go the third week to help you out dave yeah?!
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March 13, 2009, 1:12 a.m. CST
Kubrick didn't believe a property could be unfilmable...
by Mattyboy122
So if he wanted to, he could've made Watchmen. It would've taken him a huge amount of time, the film would be long, and it wouldn't be Alan Moore's Watchmen, it'd be Stanley Kubrick's. But it likely would've been a cinematic masterpiece.
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March 13, 2009, 1:12 a.m. CST
If they didn't announce the extended DVD was coming
by lockesbrokenleg
I bet some more people would have gone. Me, I'm waiting for the DVD.
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my apologies, sire, i was but responding to your nothing-for-ladies comment. i don't know that there isn't a large female fanbase, is all. they're overlooked, for the most part, but they're there. that's all. as to what's goin on, mind - i have no idea. nor did marvin gaye's brother nor sister nor mother if i recall correctly.
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Were they afraid to release an R in the beginning of summer?
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not sure if dave has noticed, but there is a depression going on<p> i dont get paid to watch movies, buy books or even post to this site<P>the movie was good, but flawed<p> hollywood is not run by the creators, it is run by the suits<p> i saw something about other execs questioning why zack was given free reign....really?<p> no one smokes in the movie...the action is over the top and gory...the ending is dumbed down and there are boobies<p> that shit sells movies, and the pc shit about only bad guys smoking is right from the studio heads<p> the suits saw the movie...they loved it...then, they marketed it all wrong, so people walked in expecting one thing and got quite another<p> its like biting into a piece a chicken and finding out its fish<P> may still taste good, but its not the experience that you were expecting<p> ifilm did a 2 hour podcast with ksmith....FUCKING 2 HOURS TALKING ABOUT THE MOVIE<P> site after geek site has reams of shit on the movie<p> thats not enough> <p> tell you what mr hayter...saturday night, send a limo over to my place to pick me up and bring me to imax at universal...you buy the ticket and ill go<p> but dont you fucking dare try and make me feel guilty if a movie doesnt make money
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how about you wait for the DIRECTORS CUT! <p> cunts.
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March 13, 2009, 1:29 a.m. CST
SNAKKKKKEEEE!!! Good script (but everybody misses the Squid)
by TallBoy66
But overall, very decent adaptation. The highest compliment I can pay it is that it'd be really, really, REALLY hard to say you love the book and absolutely despise this movie. And if you are saying that, a part of you is lying. So kudos to you, SNNNNAAAAKKKKKKKEEEE!!!! (but I miss the squid, and so does everybody else. Just a more powerful image, really. Doesn't kill the movie, but it is sad to see it gone)
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...trying to adapt Lord of the Rings? <P> Anyway, Hayter's right, in a way. There's more talent and imagination in the opening credits than most recent comic films combined. This movie needs to make a respectable gross or else you can look forward to a sprawling, 85 minute epic version of the Dark Knight Returns directed by Ratner.
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...the Metal Gear Solids are the BEST FUCKING VIDEO GAMES EVER MADE, EVER!
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March 13, 2009, 1:33 a.m. CST
They needed to hand out cliffs notes at the screening
by lockesbrokenleg
Most confusing movie I've ever seen.
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But you are helping us establish a idea of the average WATCHMEN lovers' mentality.
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just because you voiced the character in MGS we're supposed to watch everything you do now? <p> "WATCHMEN, the novel, must be read through more than once to even have the faintest grip on it." bullshit! it was great at first read! you read it again because you want to, not because you lack the brain power to appreciate it thefirst time. <p> this letter is just pathetic! is this the time ever someone plead in public to have people watch their films? what's next? spielberg gonna send his secretary to beg us for more weekend box office when tintin bomb in the first week??? 'oh do it for the sake of jackson's version!'
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But I'm on the dole and paid my 10 bucks to see this piece of crap that only superficially respect the original, and gloss over the ESSENCE of it. So no I won't be seeing it again thought I'll probably buy the SE DVD. Give me a job in Hollywood and I'll go see this crap 5 times drinking 5$ coffee latte while holding a 20 years old bimbo in my arm thinking how good I am and smiling to everyone.
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"my two viewings still don’t' allow me to view the film with the proper distance or objectivity." <p> you got that right! that's why you will never understand why some critics/fans dont love it.
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I LOVE YOU, SOLID SNAKE. I'LL DO WHATEVER YOU TELL ME. NOT EVEN FUCKING KIDDING.
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...an mp3 of himself reading this letter in Snake's voice I will see the film five more times in IMAX.
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i will spend my rent money on going to the film...right there, over 100 showings...it will be worth becoming homeless
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I kinda liked the movie though, the opening credits brought tears to my eyes... True story...
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And I had similar thoughts on the matter earlier. I hope to hell Watchmen is hugely successful and generates an assload of money. For every watered-down, PG-13, mass market, tepid-as-fuck piece of shit film that the studios have cut the balls off of, Watchmen needs to be a colossal success, a massive, "Choke on it, motherfuckers!" to every executive asswipe who ever needled a director into shooting a more "family friendly" film. I'd love to see Watchmen become the biggest box office cash cow since Titanic or, failing that, at least be every bit as successful as The Dark Knight. Sadly, I just don't think it's going to happen. <br> <br> They got a lot of things right with Watchmen. And the stuff they got right, they didn't just knock the ball out of the park but sent it into orbit. Unfortunately, there are also places where they faltered, where they dropped the ball, where they lost the right to say, "This is a TRUE adaptation." And the fans know it. And fans can be some petty, pissy, unforgiving fucks, incapable of appreciating what was right and only bitching about what was wrong. <br> <br> And while I share Hayter's sentiment, there's a snotty, almost condescending tone to that letter, with the air of some douchebag artist who proclaims if you don't love his work it's because you don't get it, it's completely over your head. And that shit almost makes me want to see him fail...
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When a 200 mil dollar funny book moobie is going to be outgrossed domestically by a 15 mil budgeted fat-man-fall-down-and-go-boom flick, the results the desperate writer begging the fringe population bitchass fanboys to see his movie. Hilarity ensues. <p> "Watchmen failed to entice an international audience to match its huge marketing blitz, extremely wide release and hype as an intended blockbuster, meeting a similar fate as Speed Racer, Max Payne and Body of Lies." - BoxOfficeMojo
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and taking some friends. I want more movies like TDK and Watchmen, and less like Fantastic Four and SpideyMan3. Dark Knight OUT.
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Those that said you need to see this movie twice to forget the comics differences and appreciate it on its own were right. I was surprised (having only recently read Watchmen for the first time about two weeks ago). I think it's genius. But it will never be mainstream. It's a 150 million art house action pic. If such a thing could be said to exist. Support it if you want to see more.
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I can see his point. I want to watch it again in IMAX. Then buy the DVD directors cut. My favorite parts in the movie were the ramped R-Rated elements. R-rated superhero flicks don't come around too often. The only other one I can think of recently is the director's cut of Daredevil. ( or the new Punisher, I haven't seen that one yet ) Cutting Daredevil to fit the PG-13 rating made it lame. If I want the comic, I read it. But I was highly entertained by the Watchmen movie. As for the film being over marketed. All I have to say is I bet you can't find Watchmen action figures and lunch boxes at your local Wal-Mart. Merchandising is a huge plug for any film. Especially comic book films.
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Woulda squeezed the jizz outta the fans and freaked out the squares into a buzz frenzy... bad move. It was passable and for the most part a valiant effort of adaptation, just needed brass instead of aluminum balls to push it through to greatness. Shame.
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Sorry Mr. Hayter, but I won't be seeing this movie a second time in theaters. Maybe I'll check out the extended director's cut this summer, but many things about Watchmen the movie didn't sit well with me. Particularly the crappy pop music choices and the awful, unnecessarily altered ending. Once was enough. I'm sorry that I let myself get so hyped up for what was a good, but not great superhero movie. Nothing personal.
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it basically says it didnt perform as an action film should<p> maybe thats cuz it aint an action film<p> and fuck the foreigners
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is best exeplified by this:<p> In the comic, Tales of Black Frieghter are told through a kid reading comics. The comic within comic used to give commentary on the story, characters as well as the readers of the comic. Now, won't it have made sense if in the movie we had the kid watching a movie being played on one of those electronics shop on large TVs? The kid coming back to watch the same movie again and again, only we see him watching different parts at different times?<p> So yeah, the movie stays true to the comic, visually, but it also shows what Alan Moore meant when he said it was a story meant to be told in a comic. Yeah, it has balls and all but lacks enough brains to translate the 'deconstruction' process from comic to movie.
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Metal Gear Solid 4 was a total piece of shit game. True.
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It still pisses me off how fucking lame the violence in TDK was.<p>It should've been an R-rated movie.
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I'll buy the BluRay but Jesus - I "GET" THE MOVIE. It's not the Riddle of the Sphinx here.
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March 13, 2009, 3:40 a.m. CST
Will watch it again this weekend with my girlfriend...
by TheGhostWhoLurks
Hopefully, she'll still like me when it's over. :)<p>Watchmen WAS good, but they really wimped out with the destruction of New York. A big hole in the ground doesn't have NEARLY the impact and horror of seeing the streets and skyscrapers of NYC overflowing with bloody corpses. It significantly lessens the evil act Ozymandias has committed in the name of "peace."<p>And if you HAVEN'T seen the new Punisher film, SEE IT! It truly IS the Punisher movie fans have been waiting for! This guy looks, acts and sounds like Frank Castle and does some truly wicked things to evil people who usually deserve it. A shotgun blast to the face of a mobster being read his Miranda Rights certainly isn't PG-13! >:)
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Still not seen Watchmen. Considering imax. We'll see....
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Ducan irons is a fag
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AICN: Studio bought and paid for. I've never seen, nor expected this level of desperation, of pandering from this site. Pushing shitty indy movies made by your friends is one thing, but pushing movies given more than a chance, and are deemed to have fallen short of expectations by the movie going public as well as some die hard purist fans...Pushing this movie for the suits who pay for your set visits. Well that is the last straw of credibility munched by an over-grazing Harry. I hope the suits put you back in your pen so you remember what it was like to actually be one of us Harry, a true fan. P.S. - That Script Girl shit is unacceptable as well, but I'm not gonna beat a dead horse.
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Its only a reasonably good film, not some fucking masterpiece. This must be the 10th new thread this week. If people want to watch it and bitch about the changes made by the scriptwriters they can, fucking retard.
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March 13, 2009, 4:02 a.m. CST
Fox is going to keep putting out shit movies..It already has put
by F-1000
Too many of you are confusing your love of the source material for a movie with honestly bad pacing, too much slo-mo and no soul. Like many others have said, the only thing translated faithfully, i.e. Not just storyboarded like the screenwriters used tracing paper over the graphic novel, was Rorschach, (and well the Comedian wasn't too bad either.) This movie was painfully miscasted everywhere else, and like a dissonant note in an otherwise harmonious chord, the miscast members drew quite more than their fair share of negative attention.
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It has already put out Watchmen, hasn't it?
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...I *have* always wanted to be taken up against the pool table by an excited adolescent's tin-eared interpretation of "Watchmen". <p>"Put your movie in me, Zack! Oh-hhhhh! It's so BIG. Don't hurt me... don't hurt me! Ah-hhhh..." <p>LOL
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I've a lot of them as I've been reading thread after thread about the Watchmen on this site and not commenting on the ridiculousness of it all...Until now. <p> When will the studios learn that hype brings you diminishing returns, and, if pushed into overdrive (citing specifically the ham handed approach AICN takes at hyping movies) can actually serve to DECREASE interest in a movie. <p> Seriously, figure it out. Or at least go viral with your marketing, people are so inundated with hype and marketing the only thing that works anymore is to at least give us the illusion of NOT pandering directly to us.
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You refute your own point dude by citing LOTR as an example of a closely adapted movie..Uhh yeah, which was a GOOD movie, and did GREAT. Watchmen isn't going to kill true to source adaptations guys, jeeze, talk about buying into the hype. <p> Why do you think so many directors avoided this material? Can't be because they were all stupid. Why do you believe Moore, (who imagined and wrote the entire fucking graphic novel) himself didn't believe it should be adapted into a movie. Hmmm, maybe these intelligent, informed artists were onto something, jeeze some of you people will just buy anything you are told. <p> The failure of Watchmen is going to be the death of the faithful adaptation. I'm laughing so hard I almost spit the gerbil out my ass.
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Went to see the film on the opening Friday, hyped to the teeth, i simply couldnt wait. I had already read the comic and adored it, so thought the film was fantastic. Went for a second screening on the following tuesday and thought it was amazing the second time round too. In all fairness Hayter has just highlighted something we all already knew. I think there obviously people out there who appreciate the movie, but i dont think it will be appreciated properly until a few years from now.
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This is a great letter with something to say. And it's just one of the reasons why I love this site. That you can come here and read stuff like this. Thanks All!
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" The whores and politicians will look up and shout ' Save us ! ', and I'll whisper ' AW HELL, NAW ! ' "</p>I've gots to get a life.</p>
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This article I'm assuming was meant to make me want to watch the movie again, but it was written in what seemed to me to be such a smarmy way that it really made me mad and pushed me well into the "no i'm not going to see this movie again" zone. That was a long sentence.
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You can count on me for not only a second viewing but also for a third and if God allows me, hopefully many more in my life! Thanks to each and everyone involved in this movie for that night I spent delighly viewing this visual, and philosophical poem!
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...what about all those other great films that risk not finding audiences? When LUST, CAUTION took a bath last year, why not appeal to viewers: if you don't watch this, then people will think that explicit yet intelligent Chinese sex is a commercial no-go!
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fuck you hayter. and next time dont drink your budweiser and blog at the same time.
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Did April come early? Don't go and see this overblown, shallow nonsense again. The studio's already know they can make money from producing substandard comic book fare. If this makes money do you really think they'll suddenly see a market in 'intelligent' comic book films? No, they'll just churn out another one and Zach 'awesome, this comic has tits' Snyder will get to make something else. This letter is appaling.
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BY A BUNCH OF MEN IN A BAR? VERY INTERESTING.
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He seems to have the same 'giggling schoolboy' approach to sex and violence that Snyder does. How appropriate.
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I am absolutely convinced now that you motherfuckers hate everything. This film was sublime.
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And she's the smartest girl in the world! Nah, fucking pretentious attention whore who thinks her shit doesn't stink. The Watchmen is brilliant and flawed, and that's why I'll see it a second and third time this weekend. Du Pont can go smoke clove cigarettes and act all hip and cool with Script Girl.
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with toddlers in the theater. Life is too short.
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"Is it Blade Runner? Is it Kubrick, or Starship Troopers? I don’t know yet." - pretty much sums it up starship troopers is a brilliant film, ten times the film watchmen is. this boat is sinking and hayter's the engineer
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March 13, 2009, 6:28 a.m. CST
Bendis should talk with all his Secret Invasion mainstream crap!
by Redbox Vacation
I will say this. The true film had 30 more minutes plus the Black Freighter and Under The Hood mixed back into it with the 2 Bernies at the newsstand. That film may never be seen by us is this studio cut is a failure. If you really hated it because you like big splosions, that's cool. I'm not faulting you, you have limited abilities and you probably use them to the best of your abilities. If your a fan of the book, I also have issues, but I see something great that you may be unfairly comparing to the perfection of the book. Something that the Uber version may closer satisfy. So snobs? go see it! Super fans of the book, go see it again. Simple minded low level Sci-Fi fans, I get it, you want more B level shit, which unfortunately the violence alluded to too well. Fear not, Hollywood will never disappoint you.
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March 13, 2009, 6:31 a.m. CST
Is it Apocalypse Now? Is it Blade Runner? Is it Kubrick, or Star
by Projectedlight
I do. It's none. The movie sucked. Snyder completely sucked away any subtext criticising the consequences or morality of violence by rendering everything on screen as TOTALLY COOL as he could possibly make it. This meant that it was always either 1) Way to ridiculously gory or 2) Like Power Rangers. Moore understood that a deconstruction of superhero violence and notions of morality means that the scenes of fighting had to be quick, intense, brutal, and not at all pretty. Snyder gives us SLOW-MO KUNG FU FIGHTING. "Woah". Compare the way that Ozy's would be assassin is taken out in the comic to the movie. Oh, and in the movie he also kills a bunch of other people in slow mo so we can appreciate the blood shooting through a neck in slow motion. FUCK OFF SNYDER. Also, the way that Nite Owl MADE THE DECISION for the audience at the end was unforgivable. "Hey Ozzy, you suck!" Thanks, genius. What made Watchmen great was its moral ambiguity. Talk about Hollywoodizing a complex text. I haven't even gotten into the more obvious, basic problems with the film, like the fact that it IS A FILM and NOT A COMIC, which Snyder apparently doesn't realize since he copies and pastes the structure of the comic book instead of reimagining anything, which just does translate and results in both an information overload and a film that doesn't flow interestingly and is just fucking boring. So yeah, the movie is a mess and it didn't make me think about 'the nature of man' (the voice overs spoke a lot about that though), but just at how a great comic had been raped by a hack director who didn't have the balls or is too egomaniacal to tell the studio not to call him as visionary since he maybe imagined a few minutes of the movie for himself instead of copying it from Moore and Gibbons' work (to the detriment of a film). All in all, a pretentious letter from an clown (who writes terribly for one who does so for a living) who wants to shame me and tell me I can't handle the dark recesses of life because I don't like the utter grim realism of slow-fast mo 'ramping' and CGI 'enhancements'.
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How can you say it's faithfull ? It's not, it got the visuals right, but not the meaning of them. FAIL.
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It's a shame that Hayter is the one doing the begging, because other than the horribly rushed ending, his script was actually pretty decent. Snyder should be the one begging us right now. It was his inability to bring any of the themes from the original to the screen that handicapped this movie. Dude's only good for two things: slow motion & wire work. Sad to see Hayter feel compelled to beg people to see a movie that's going to get destroyed at the weekend box office by "Race to Witch Mountain." This ain't his fault.<br> <br> Groveling is beneath you, Snake!
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I personally gave the movie a B+ and I do think it will be a cult classic, and I was already going to see it again but.. "I f***ing dare you to say any one of those things about this movie?" How do you have an IQ over 70 and even say this? The ending DID NOT WORK. Manhattan is not an external threat and even if he destroyed an American city as well as others the rest of the world would see his actions as some plan on the part of the US, not a uniting event. The proof of this is that so many people think Bush engineered 9/11. This is not arguable, any opinion that the ending works as a uniting event is wrong, period. The fact that Hayter is writing a letter like this shows a lack of self confidence and common sense. He is going to regret this for the rest of his career.
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Hate to tell you this, but your script for "Watchmen" was everything Alan Moore said a movie based on his book would be. The disgusting violence you guys embellished and added to the film sullied the heart of the story. Then in the ending, you change the characters' reactions to the catastrophic event, which in turn changed the characters. This I cannot forgive. Why didn't Laurie and Night Owl simply make love in Ozymandias' base when they realized that it was futile to take a stance on Ozymandias' plan either pro (Dr. Manhattan) or con (Rorschach), and simply enjoy life through the general act of fucking? I mean yeah, Snyder films sex scenes like he's never made love before, but maybe they could have filmed the love scene second unit, with an assistant or guest director, or even via stock footage. Any of the above would have been better than the bitchy catfight you guys had Night Owl start with Ozymandias. Zack Snyder was the wrong man for the job. Like DuPont says, he had balls for action scenes, but was inept when it came to filming dramatic moments. You could feel life and meaning being sucked from our world onto the movie screen every time a character wasn't punching or kicking bones out of people's bodies after the 30 minute mark. The best person to direct this film left it years ago. He was Darren Aronofsky, a man who can handle drama, characterization, and more importantly, a thematic focus. You are seriously begging us to see this shit twice? Dude, I am pissed that I saw it once. And when the studio-manufactured hype on this film starts to run down, there will be more people who agree with me. This film definitely wasn't Kubrick. It wasn't even "Starship Troopers," a film that while flawed, had an energy to carry itself beyond it's opening credits. Your letter was shameless, shameless, shameless. Be a man and take your knocks from this horrible, painful lesson in cinematic hystory, and do what me and the rest of the fans of this book who are ass-sore because of this movie and move on....
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I'm sure with thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on their bank account, they hurt every day, while we peons with negative bank accounts are living the good life.
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March 13, 2009, 6:48 a.m. CST
Oh, and I love how David admits that the film raped us.
by The Tao of Joe
Classy, classy, classy. Almost as classy as the eroticized rape scene his letter alluded to. Man did that moment in the film make raping women look fun and cool.
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But you have to admit one thing, its a step in the right direction. Sure, Zack Snyder used his impulses as a filmmaker, which is to create portable paintings of violence and sex. But it was a very ballsy move for people who are ordinarily scared shitless. I had a scriptwriting teacher at AU who had been a junior development executive at a studio. His place had seen several cool scripts while he was there and passed on them, only to see them made and become successful. He related that he was ready to tear his hair out. Because Watchmen was made, they're ready to take a chance on IT. Because Watchmen was made Marvel is going to try and give us Fantastic Four and Daredevil the right way and apologize for those abortions they allowed Fox to put on the screen. I am going to see it at least one more time, possibly a 3rd. For me, its a very dense, intellectually stimulating film much like Kubrick's Barry Lyndon actually. You know, the one where he tries to tell an 800 page novel in the course of 2.5 hours and sort of succeeds, but the telling is brilliant. So too here. He attempts to adapt a very post-modern comic book, and gets as close as he can to perfection. Adaptations will ultimately never be the book. And I'm okay with that, because I want to see what spectacle Warner Bros. can concoct now that they are clearly starting to grow balls. I'm going to see it again to prevent shrinkage on their part, me and all my family members.
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..that David Hayter needs to point this shit out. Didn't we all know this already? It's a sad fucking reality but there we go...why on earth does Hayter feel the average movie-goer is going to give a shit about what crap they lap up. Just look at the sort og money generated by utter, utter garbage. Only the film industry is able to exist as an artistic medium pandering to the lowest common denominator. Trying to make successful, original and relevant art in a medium dominated by bank balances is always going to be an uphill struggle...does Hayter really need to spell that out?
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...is nothing without brains and a heart, two things Snyder's 'Watchmen' lacked entirely. Hence, the constant parroting that "'Watchmen' had balls" as a way to justify the inherent shittiness of everything that happens after Manhattan arrives on Mars is a moot point. You know who else has balls? Michael F'n Bay. Doesn't mean his movies suck any less than they do.
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March 13, 2009, 7:26 a.m. CST
"Trust me. You'll come back, eventually. Just like Sally."
by DonnaDarko
<p>No, I won't. I won't buy the DVD. I won't suggest your film to friends. I will no longer say anything positive about anything you do, If that keeps 0.02 cents from your wallet in a lifetime, it will bring me joy.</p> <p>I will, however, go out of my way to repeat your asshole comment. Grow a fucking brain.</p> <p>I hope you have a daughter, that grows up to be just like me. Good luck with that.</p>
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His comment was almost as tasteless as his film.
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this guy makes me not want to see the movie again. we is he acting so desperate? its like you have to go see it twice to get it blah blah what a lousy excuse
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Did the screenwriter just ask everyone to spend their money again so the movie doesn't plummet in it's second week to 5th or 6th as it quickly falls out of the top 10? I'm not saying the movie's bad, I'll refrain from that topic - I'm just standing by my long held belief that this film has too narrow an audience and so would drop from # 1 by it's second week and fade rapidly over time. And no offense...but seeing the screenwriter grovel for your handful of sweaty but hard-earned money just fucking vindicated my opinion. What a vulgar display.
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get over it, sweety. If you have to tell people to see your movie, chances are you're not gonna be doing well, anyway. Telling fanboys and DonnaDarko to go see your movie again isn't going to get the average mouth-breather in the seats, either. As Gabriel said to a dying Keanu, "You're fucked."
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...go see my sucky movie! Maybe next time you write an adaptation, you'll take the time to understand the source material, rather than just making the script a list of things you thought were "kewwwll" when you were 16.
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you can do w/e the hell you want in my book.
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March 13, 2009, 7:52 a.m. CST
"Trust me. You'll come back, eventually. Just like Sally."
by dioxholster
what does that phrase even mean. seriously can someone explain to me? who is sally? is she from the movie sally and crystal friend comedy thing.
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Sally was the character in the film who gets raped. What Hayter was so tastelessly trying to point out was that we had been raped by the movie, and like Sally, who has a kid fathered by her rapist, we will come back as well.
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I appreciate the comments. When I get the nerve I usually also post here. stuffdaddy.blogspot.com or symptomsofrebellion.blogspot.com Thanks again!
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thanks, but thats disgusting. ewwww. anyway i thought that she almost got raped...and then she had consensual sex with him later. am i right fanboys?
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Isn't that exactly what you did by making this a darker story than it was originally? Wasn't that the point of the gore? You might argue that this is the opposite of making it commercial, because it and the nudity guarantees an R-rating. But if you did, that’d be disingenuous because right now, nothing sells like gore. See Saw 56 for details. By ramping up the violence and the gore, you are trying to add spectacle to make it more commercial rather than relying on the story and the images the comic provides. Ordinarily, one might think that’s just a part of the process of adaptation, but when a production remains so slavishly true to the visuals of the source material in pretty much every other way, that kind of deviation more than anything takes someone familiar with the source material out of the picture and makes them ask “why have they changed this particular aspect of the story?” For me, at least, commerce seems the likeliest answer. Having said ALL of that (for some reason), I am not trying to crap on the movie. There’s a lot to be proud of there, and a lot of people clearly worked hard on the film, so I am pulling for you to get the box office bump you’re looking for. This film did make a real honest effort to bring a beloved story to film, and I’d like to see more of that, even if the end result just isn’t my cup of tea. But to say you didn’t change the story just to be commercial doesn’t ring true.
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"PLEASE watch Watchmen! David Hayter Gotta Eat!" I guess this means we won't be getting a sequel.<p> I won't be seeing this movie because frankly it never looked all that interesting to me. I never read the comic, so what the fuck do I care?<p> I don't want my superheroes to be a bunch of sick assholes. I'm sorry that so many of you do. You always want your heroes to be sad sacks of shit who occasionally take out the trash. Sucks to be you.
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Fucking Warners, want bigger box office, worldwide fucking release
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March 13, 2009, 8:34 a.m. CST
Jackie Earl Haley Gotta Eat! When is his E! True Hollywood Story
by Snake Foreskin
"Jackie Earl Haley. Child actor. Drug addicted teen. Skinny little man. Some in Hollywood felt sorry for him and gave him a second chance. He was given a big break as Rorshach in last year's Watchmen.<p> "But the fans left him to starve in a hovel of an apartment on La Brea with $.27 in his bank account and nobody but a three-legged, blind and deaf mongrel to count as a friend. In the end, not even Gary Coleman would stop by to visit poor little Jackie Earl. Poor little Jackie Earl..."<p> Man, David Hayter must feel terrible that he didn't set up a "Save The Jackie Earl" Fund. There's still time, David. There's still time.
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relax, hayter... it wasn't that great. okay? sure. but i think i'll stick with my GN, thank you.
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Most of the "normal" people who saw it said it was interesting, but too long, and boring. Its not going to be a blockbuster, David, sorry. It'll do well as a cult film. Its already doing well as a cult film. I think you're going to have to accept this and move on.
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You know what? Fuck Stanley Kubrick. I have had it with all the slurping this overrated bastard has been the recipient of. Hayter did not compare himself to Kubrick, and even if he did that is not some kind of sacrilege. Fuck off, dipshits.
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Of course you are. Its always about the money. Thats what the studio bosses want to see.
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It seems that there are mainly (with exceptions) 2 camps for Watchmen. The people that read the book seem to really like the movie. Those that didn't read the book don't seem to care much for it. I know that's a generalization and that there are others out here, but this is what I'm observing. Obviously, something was lost in the interpretation of the book or else people would be as gaga over the movie as the people who like the book.
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March 13, 2009, 8:55 a.m. CST
Well, I f***ing dare you to say any one of those things about th
by Yoda's Ball Sack
How about the ending?
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No you desperate douche.
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Lets face it this movie isnt going to be at its best in a movie theater. Its way too long to play in a theater and the funny thing is it probably needs to be longer. Unfortunatly that wont happen until it gets on DVD or Blu ray. I hope to god though that there is alterantive ending and im not talking squid. Im talking about giving back the line "nothing really ends" back to Dr. Manhatten. The squid was stupid but to take away the power of that moment when that line is just wrong.
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I wipe my ass with your letter sir. Now that I would do twice.
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see his junk get cut off.
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the more I'm inclined to say that even if it was a more faithful adaptation of the comic, the film would never be a blockbuster. <p> I just don't think it's the type of story that has mass appeal to draw people to the movie theater week after week. It's not like other superhero movies that have big name stars and tons of action. <p> Spiderman. Not as cerebral as Watchmen, but has more generic appeal to people than the intricacies of Watchmen. Plus it had Toby Maguire, Willem Dafoe, James Franco, and Kirsten Dunst. <p> Look at it this way. Take two Shakespeare plays and turn them into movies. Which one is going to make more money? "Romeo and Juliet" with Reese Witherspoon and Jake Gyllenhaal or "Cymbeline" with John Doe and Jane Doe?
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How many perfect works of art have you seen in your time? They don't exist.<p>If Watchmen is perceived as a failure by the suits, enjoy the next 20 years of watered down bullshit.
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He's only asking those who PLAN to see it AGAIN to do it THIS WEEKEND and not later in the month, bc the fucking SUITS only care about 1st weekend profits and the 2nd week dropoff. He has a point, if some of you near-sighted bozos would actually *read* instead of jumping to conclusions.
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This speaks to something I've been complaining about for years. How the business end of Hollywood and art by committee has taken over completely. It's all demographics and test audience and trends. It's not enough to make a profit you got to have a blockbuster. Despite any flaws perceived in Watchmen, the fact that the people making it loved the project and the source material radiates from the screen. A constant war goes on in the back rooms and boardrooms of Hollywood between soulless suits who have no creative instinct and artists. To be honest it has always been waged between artist and those seeking to control them. Those who can't create ignore that fact and second guess and instruct or restrict those that can. Michelangelo had his famous struggle with the clergy as he was painting the Sistine chapel. Even the Great Masters had to deal with this sort of struggle. Comic book adaptations are an unique subgroup of the entertainment industry that it has characteristics all there own. We can't get a serious, gritty Batman television series but "Birds of Prey" made it to the screen. No live action X-men show but "Mutant X" got the green light. The attempt to take a known work and change it to appeal to a wider audience than the fan base is the very thing that kills the potential of a project. It makes it seem like they KNOW what the fans want and deliberately screw it up. The best example of someone not knowing what the hell they are talking about is Kevin Smith's explanation of the non flying, non cape wearing Superman movie. But Iron Man, Dark Knight and Watchmen have all moved a hell of a lot closer in the right direction. They may not be PERFECT but they are a lot better than what has gone before. Compare them to Batman Forever or the Captain America movie with the Italian Red Skull who looked like a demented Muppet. And Hollywood is all about trends. That's how the God awful reference movies keep getting cranked out, they make money despite sucking beyond hell. So if you like the DIRECTION Watchmen and Dark Knight are taking the comic book movie world toward, the only way to vote and impress the soulless suits is with the wallets. They need to realize they can get even more money if they just shut up and get out of the damn way.
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2 IMAX tickets...now why the hell should I spend anymore dough than that? If anything, you should give me a free fucking do-over. Write a better script next time, and maybe more people will see it. <p>As it is, I can't in good conscience recommend this movie to most people I know. I respect the intentions of the people involved, but it just doesn't have that wide appeal that gets great word-of-mouth and does big business.</p>
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Just kidding. I actually preferred the film's ending to the original story's. The squid was always my one disappointment in the comic. And if you don't like my opinion you can suck my CG blue wang. Do what Hayter says and go check this movie out. Do it for me, do it for you, do it for 8 lb. 6 oz. baby Jesus. Just do it. - this message was sponsored by Nike.
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After 20 years -- 20 FUCKING YEARS -- of studio bullshit, we finally got a WATCHMEN movie that was far better than anyone expected. Go see it again and save us from more trash like PAUL BLART: MALL COP.
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At 50, a fan man perhaps. But this writer's way, way desperate, and rightly so. Watchmen will certainly drop off the radar this weekend. Saw it twice last weekend, and shared it with all the friends I could. And I enjoyed it. But it was seriously flawed, and simply doesn't have the mass appeal it needs to be a blockbuster. The music was painfully heavy handed. Nixon's Pinnochio nose? GMAFB. The new ending? Well, I think that worked, but I understand the criticisms. The acting? Take away Rorschach, and there's little left to be proud of. Clearly a great adaptation of the best graphic novel of all time. But the movie has little or no appeal beyond the existing Watchmen fan base. Who else will care that we see Silk Spectre II putting coffee cups away, or glance at the newstand in passing? Spend the weekend enjoying the penultimate BSG episode, or seeing another movie.
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This douche is comparign this shit to apocalypse now and Blade runner? Fuck you.
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stop with this WATCHMEN IS SOO DEEP nonsense...a good book yeah, IT'S NOT THAT COMPLICATED!!! you'd think they were talking about a Beaudrillard philosophy book or Umberto Eco or something...you know something actually really smart and complicated.
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It's going to be my first IMAX experience (I missed The Dark Knight). Hopefully I'll get some good seats, last Friday I was on the third row, fucking neck pain.
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OMFG NO!!! starship troopers maybe.
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they brought on the WRONG FUCKING DIRECTOR WHO HAS NO IDEA HOW TO HANDLE DEPTH.
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March 13, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST
"All this time, you’ve been waiting for a director who.....
by harrys_site_sucks
was going to hit you in the face with this story....." Aw hell no! Fuck that shit. All I ever have been waiting for it a MINI-SEIRES (ala HBO) that wouldn't leave a panel out or a word unchanged. Screw you for mucking it up and assuming what I wanted. Fuck that ending too.
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You do realize that this man is what most of you loud, arrogant, maladjusted posers pretend to be? He’s out there, in the real world, writing films and even acting in them from time to time. He’s one of the talents behind the first two X-Men films which, in case you weren’t paying attention, were both precursors for the subsequent quality comic book adaptations we have been enjoying ever since. The man is also a phenomenal voice actor as he’s being doing the voice of Snake in the Metal Gear Solid games for years. And you motherfuckers are talking down to him? You are calling him desperate? You, the great mass of pseudo-intellectuals, those brilliant artisans and scholars who are working on your own great works in between those assistant management positions at Starbucks and Gamestop? If you fools really paid attention to what he was saying, you’d understand his point was very simple: like it or hate it, the adaptation of Watchmen was a passionate, sincere and earnest undertaking and represents a serious divergence from the typical Hollywood approach to the genre. It’s success means that other potential films can be made in the same manner, reducing or perhaps even eliminating the need for studios to trim, dumb down or flatly eviscerate our beloved properties for the sake of trying to sell toys and cereal. The real problem is that many of you are so myopic, self-centered and full of your own pretentions of intelligence and superiority that you can’t or won’t concede that an endeavor that doesn’t get your seal of approval can still be viable and posses merit. Good luck with that.
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I agree with David on all of this. Kudos to you for blatantly saying "buy another ticket." It takes guts to come out and ask people to do something like that to support something you love. I applaud it.<br><br>The thing is... it's true. This type of film making is going to live or die based on the success of Watchmen. I think that people need to try and separate themselves mentally from the comic when they see it, because frankly... it's not the fucking comic. It's its own animal. While I didn't LOVE it, I absolutely respected it, and appreciated it. And that's the same way I felt about the comic originally. I didn't truly embrace it until my second read.<br><br>This is a movie that breaks boundaries. In this era of digital immediatism, it's a challenge to the moviegoing audiences to slow down. Take a deep breath. Linger over the putrid stench of darkness. Now marvel at its beauty.<br><br>Watchmen is not something to be taken lightly. At least half the audience enjoyed themselves on opening night. That's about the amount of people that stood up and clapped when the credits came up.<br><br>Much like a wine, this film doesn't reveal itself fully on first taste. I think David is right. Go back and have another taste.
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SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE BY A GREAT DIRECTOR FOR THE PURPOSE OF INTELLEGENT ART!!
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and you think that qualifies him for WATCHMEN!?!?!?!?!?
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Hanging. Repeating "one of us, one of us, one of us" over and over again. Sounds like a great time. Just imagine the ballsiness they could contact over their domestic brews. High five!
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That is all.
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is snake real name
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have ever been to a major art gallery? read any classic literature? listened to any great albums? i agree that perfection is subjective but thats the dumbest thing ive heard in a while
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I find it really hilarious that so many of you talk-backers thrive on having these million dollar blockbusters to converse about but are so utterly and completely cynical about giving anyone money to make them. Hayter is absolutely right. Whether you love or hate the film, if you like the concept of the R-rated superhero flick there's no question that Watchmen's performance this weekend will impact the fate of this unproven genre. It's a simple truth and anyone screaming that studios and screenwriters don't deserve the money it takes to make these things come to life should probably go find something else to discuss passionately -- because clearly you don't value the existence of these media properties...
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That was a really awkward, desperate letter. I really enjoyed Watchmen, but I shouldn't be made to feel guilty for not going to see it again. It's a 3 hour movie for christ's sake, and the next time I see it will be in the comfort of my own home. I'm not shelling out another $9.50 when I already know I'm looking at spending $25-30 bucks on the Blu-Ray. This is really demeaning to the fans...pressuring people just because all signs are pointing to about a 70% drop this weekend? How is that all problem? I went to see the movie, I recommended it to everyone I know, I spoke highly of it on MULTIPLE websites such as this one. So now you're telling me that's not enough for you? Blow me.
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bullshit. we just want competent directors to make them. also even if this fails financially it will not be the end of big budget R rated sci-fi, comic/whatever films. that's nonsense hyperbole. once the dust settles and some time passes... failures have NEVER stopped hollywood from trying again.
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March 13, 2009, 9:55 a.m. CST
I f***ing dare you to say any one of those things about this mov
by catlettuce4
the ending was a MASSIVE Hollywood puss-out. It makes zero fucking sense, as Massa pointed out - A US superweapon (Manhatten) apparently destroys millions of people worldwide and nobody blames the US? that defeats the entire point of the GN's ending - the threat has to be otherworldly so there's nobody to blame, THAT'S what unites everyone. The letter's a blatant attempt to get people to see the film now numbers are flagging - well FUCK YOU David.
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You've completely missed a very important point in pining away that studios will never make another great comic book movie due to the failure of Watchmen: "Dark Knight". Does anybody really believe that studios will completely give up on comic movies after its success? Hollywood is like a copy machine. If it works once, do it again, and again, and again, ad nauseum. Now, while we may see studios take less chances in the future, I think they were doing that anyway with the bad economy. Hollywood generally makes what sells. It's a business. I actually think studios will look at Wathcmen and think, "Well, there's obviously a market out there, but let's not spend $150 million on it."
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Dude, he lost me when he started asking if this movie was Blade Runner or a Kubrik film when it so obviously isn't. I had trouble getting through the rest of the letter after that.
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Don't act as if any human being could ever make a version of this that would match the vision in your head. You're full of shit. You don't like the film...fine. Don't pretend that an HBO mini series is the answer...Jesus fucking Christ are you kidding me?<p> Move on losers.
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Dude, he creates a PRODUCT. A product I spend MY hard earned dineros on. If he were McDonalds selling the McWatchmen, and it left a bad taste in my mouth, I have a right to complain. I can respect him for trying to make a hamburger, but if I don't like it, so be it. Deal with. Sometimes people will eat your shit, sometimes they won't . Welcome to the big time.
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yep. the whole point of the original (and awesome cool) ending was based on r. reagan's real quote about needing an alien invasion to unite us.
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What a crybaby. I was going to see it, but this bitch-ass whining makes me want to download the torrent.
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The Dark Knight is not R-Rated and, awesome as it is, does not have the cerebral quality that Watchmen has by it's nature as a relatively faithful Alan Moore adaptation.<p>Sorry, but I want to live in a world where a work like From Hell would get a real adaptation and not a glossed over piece of shit that barely has anything to do with the source material. Better yet, a world where original and thoughtful adult oriented movies are made. A world where a Watchmen movie made as faithfully as this one was is not such a world.<p>So go ahead and nitpick it to death. I hope you like the Fantastic Four movies.
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Hollywood has LONG been behind the game, when it comes to the superhero. If you take any superhero comic book series (quality or not) and realize it as a motion picture, the cost and risk is on an enormously larger scale. And the number of people involved is in great contrast, as well. <P>So I find it to be an...all too rare of a TREAT...to have such a run at the movies, with IRON MAN, THE INCREDIBLE HULK, THE DARK KNIGHT, and now WATCHMEN. <P>Bless you, Hollywood. --Please keep it up.
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Dude, you're not doing yourself any favors here. That Sally line was creepy and smug. And, he's being more than a little disingenuous - lots of things were changed in the movie from minor interesting details to major plot points (like the ending) no doubt to please producers or because they felt the story worked better that way. I like that he's proud of the film and he's clearly excited about it. But don't patronize us. In some ways I totally agree with him. I think the film is excellent and maybe worth seeing twice (despite some reservations). Even if you don't go away liking it, you will go away thinking about it, which to me is worth more than a movie like Iron Man (which I really liked, so, sorry to single it out, but haven't thought about much since). But he comes off as really condescending here - like he and Zack and everyone involved are cultural saviors or something. If this film doesn't do well, it's not the end of the world. He should hang back and let the film speak for itself - I think it does a better job.
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You can't even understand a direct communication. Hayter is not arguing that the film is SO GOOD that you have to see it twice. He explicitly says that's not his argument. So every last one of you people who has posted anything in this thread about the film's quality is a fucking moron. His explicit argument is that the film took exactly the sort of chances the average person who frequents this website says [it's probably a lie, but they say it] they want films to take, and that if the movie is a failure the studios will probably never allow that again. So whatever you think of this property, if there's any OTHER property you don't want to see get neutered you have to consider supporting this one. And maybe Hayter is dead wrong in this argument, and if you think so, say so. But don't argue against something the guy explicitly says isn't his point. // You know who the OTHER really fucking stupid people here are? The ones who want to argue that the changed ending "messes the story up" because it "wouldn't work". Um, listen douchebags, Veidt's plan is NOT SUPPOSED TO be sure of working. It's SUPPOSED TO BE ambiguous whether the peace will hold. Maybe you're right and Vedit fucked up and the rest of the world will turn against the US. We're supposed to wonder whether it would work, and what that says about the moral choices of everyone involved. So you're patting yourselves on the back for raising an objection to the outcome that was ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. // I really can't stand how stupid you fuckers are sometimes.
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...going back for a 4th this weekend. Please don't tell me I'm not doing MY part. I thought it was absolutely God-damned brilliantly adapted. Best version we could have ever wished for, fuck all you haters, go back to watching the original X-Men movie or some other bullshit that completely missed the mark instead of what I think is an absolutely gorgeous movie that will stand the test of time. I think this movie will be more loved as time passes.
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March 13, 2009, 10:16 a.m. CST
This film is vulgar, boring and lacks balls AND intelligence
by kungfugazi
I sincerely challenge someone to make sense of the ending. Why would the world unite in peace against the supper man? Instead of it creating a new type of cold war?
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It really detracted from the whole scene whenever they showed him.
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And THE INCREDIBLE HULK gets an 8.0 (out of 10). --I hope to catch WATCHMEN again, then I'll be picking it up (day one) on blu-ray. (Hell yes, I'll be supporting this!)
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How many missed the easter eggs on their first viewing? Like how it shows why Batman never happened? That scene was fucking amazing, and I totally missed it my first viewing.
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I guess I don't understand what you really want. "The Dark Knight" in my opinion has MUCH more cerebral themes than "Watchmen" the movie does. I guess you just want R-rated comic book movies? Why does it matter if its R rated or not? This movie could have EASILY been PG-13 and be the same movie. I thought it was a little gratuitous in the nudity, sex, and violence, and really didn't make a point.<br /><br />As to there being thoughtful, adult oriented movies being made, I thought you lived in one? Did you see "The Wrestler"? How about "The Reader"? How about "Let The Right One In"? Oh, sorry, none of them dress in spandex and fight crime. (Well, the Wrestler dresses in spandex, so its half way there).<br /><br />Maybe I'm getting older, or maybe I just don't look at comics the same way I look at great Shakesperean plays or the movies of the French New Wave. Comics in there history have been largely for the masses with a special consideration for children. Some have speculated that for most of the history of comics they were largely works for the illiterate, but I think that's a gross simplification. In the end, to me, "The Dark Knight" is the ultimate comic book movie. It has great action, a determination to take the source seriously, and maintains the primary themes in most hero stories: good triumphs over evil.
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do you really expect us to read a post that begins with "God some of you people are so stupid."?
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March 13, 2009, 10:29 a.m. CST
The box office demise of this movie was wholly predictable
by I am_NOTREAL
I'd toot my own horn for a talkback post made several months ago, but really, I was far from the only one who saw it and it didn't take Adrian Veidt to figure it out. Big opener thanks to embedded fanbase and then a precipitous drop, a grueling crawl to middling profitability thanks to foreign receipts and DVD. The material is just too esoteric and dense to play in middle American multiplexes. 300 was a simple against-the-odds story with lots of violence, and thus a big hit. Watchmen is just too damn hard for people who want simple escapist entertainment, despite the genius of the source material. This movie was a folly from the beginning. Proof positive that a cable miniseries was the way to go, or else it should've just stayed on the shelf. Ah well. Hayter is wrong, but also right. I haven't seen this film and won't until cable or DVD, because for every 3-time viewer there's someone like me who believes the definitive version has already been done and that a film is superfluous, and there aren't enough mainstream viewers to fill in the gap. Fortunately The Dark Knight's half a billion domestic gross plus the success of Iron Man will guarantee a future of some sort for superhero films.
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March 13, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST
David Hayter, based on your letter I will not see it again this
by Leafar the Lost
I will wait until Monday to see it. Why? Your letter seemed so... pathetic. Watchman is a great movie, and I encourage everyone to see it. It is very faithful to the comic book. I enjoyed seeing the graphic sex and violence. HOWEVER, you don't have to beg people to see great movies. It should be #1 again this weekend, but because of your letter one less person will be seeing it this weekend. Yeah, good job there Davie...
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No .. nerds have to get out their microscopes and examine the fauna around the trees to see if it's the forest they imagined in their little minds. Watch the dang film and enjoy it for what is is: A truly great piece of filmmaking that is as close to a perfect Watchmen film as humanly possible. These nitpickers are now giving permission to studio suits to interfere and tell directors like Zack Snyder what to do and how to do it. You want a Watchmen movie with fart jokes? You got it fanboy ... hope you're happy.
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March 13, 2009, 10:40 a.m. CST
So we can have MORE pretentious, overrated shit? No thanks.
by ShiftyEyedDog2
<br><Br>I'll pass. Hell, I made sure I bought a ticket to something else the first time, so Watchmen wouldn't get my money!<br><br>
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Does the torrent count Davey????
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Man, it's good to know guys who probably invented comics get this flick. Good posts. I'd like to see people who think the book is far superior to the film put their cred out there. Tell us when you first read Watchmen. I first read it back in 1992, in trade form...not knowing that I was fucking Alan Moore in the process.<p>Oh, you didn't know? Well, WB has been putting out those trades since the miniseries ended to fuck Alan Moore's asshole and own his property in perpetuity. So, if you read this in trade form, and not in the comics, you paid to fuck Alan Moore in the ass.<p>Financially speaking.<p>And, unfortunately, I didn't care about the whithertos and whyfores of comics back then, I just thought this was a fundamentally disturbing take on comic heroes, and was the kind of shit that should exist to push comics forward. Since, I've read lots of Moore, got into the Sandman series. Drank beers with Neil Gaiman, and chatted with him about lying on resumes, and how quantum mechanics means that it's not wrong to do so.<p>So, if you bought this in trade form, you're complicit in fucking the artist over. If you own the comics, good on you...I think the flick is great, saw it for a third time, and brought friends. Then, on Hayter's suggestion, raped them.
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Hell yes, just to see the look on Alan Moore's face!!!
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"Okay, I must be fucking shrooming. Because in the movie I saw, in the theater...it's explained why Comedian had to die. By Ozy. And it makes sense." <P> I must have been napping. I remember Ozy saying the Comedian "figured it out", but that's it. They made it clear he had to die because of how he REACTED to what he knew, but not HOW he knew it.
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And I don't feel guilty about it..........unlike some of the other plants on this talkback.
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March 13, 2009, 10:49 a.m. CST
I'm gonna watch this a second and maybe a third time...
by Motoko Kusanagi
...in theatres. And hopefully a dozen of times more on DVD. Yes, DVD. FUCK BLU-RAY and all other HD media bs.<p>I really loved WATCHMEN! Kudos to all involved!
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
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and I plan on seeing it a third time, maybe this weekend in Imax. Yep, I'm one of those who read it when it originally came out and a dozen or more times since. I have to say I enjoyed it much more on the second viewing.
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Is he going to pay me to watch it again then?
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I can't respond better than my good friend Greg Lee: This has to be one of the most embarrassing moments in the history of filmmaking. I entered college, still a virgin, at the height of 6'3", weighing 155 pounds, most of it carried in my enormous head... and yet, somehow, I was NEVER this desperate. It's like a guy begging a girl to have pity sex with him - but by telling her how his cock only LOOKS small, when in fact, it is HUGE. And how she'll only realize that after she fucks him twice. This guy should shoot himself, but the bullet would be too embarrassed to enter his skull. Holy God.
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It was good. I'll give it that and Snyder pulled off some amazing moments loved the shot of young Walter in the opening credits. The violence was overkill throughout the movie and then the ending was just blank (I'm with Massa on that). As far as the other bits go - thta's what happens when you adapt something into film and you've gotta accept it. Just look at LOTR - not perfect by any stretch... The ROTK really killed it with the ending, but pretty good nonetheless and it was as good as a movie could be. That's the way I felt after Watchmen - I was just glad that we got such a good version onto the screen. And as for the Hayter, I'd love to see it again but my kids have gotta eat!
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I throughly enjoyed this movie and a screenwriter has the right to give the finger to all the geeks who decided to hate this movie the moment the director and cast were announced. But don't beg me to see it again. Nobody from TDK needed to publicly request we take another $10 out of our wallet for their affirmation. People will return based on the merits of the film.
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I'll watch it again. All of you asshats take this shit way too seriously.
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Nice to see you again man. <p>In Ozy's little speechlet thing he talks about Nixon knowing, and then the Comedian finding out and being soft about it...it's right after a bunch of evil looking punishment to Rorschach...as Ozy's heading up the stairs.<p>Don't get the feeling that I get all weepy eyed over Moore's situation. He's been more than enough of a prick in his own right, I'm just saying that all these people who feel some kind of loyalty to the book should at least say, yeah, fuck the guy that wrote it, fuck the guy that drew it...but the story is sacrosanct...and that makes them a buncha hypocritical twats.
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No squid in that either.
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I was thinking about watching this again until I read your pity party of a letter. Seriously! You dare me to find the ways you pussed out! NUMBER ONE. Having Rorshach whack the Pedophile with a butcher knife instead of burning him alive. Why? Because you thought people would think you were stealing from SAW! Screw You! Lame! NUMBER TWO. The pussed out ending. Now I wasn't a defender of the Squid, but after seeing the movie, and moreso after reading your letter, I was wrong! You're begging for a big second weekend? But, this new ending was supposed to make it more accessible right? This should've been more palletable for the average moviegoing audience right? Are you saying Dr. Manhattan and Laurie standing over a crater resonates with the average movie audience about as well as a Giant Squid towering over piles of dead bodies? Face it, maybe you guys didn't make as good of a movie as you thought you did. That's sure what it sounds like. Don't beg, just let your work stand on it's own.
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March 13, 2009, 11:29 a.m. CST
They should release an PG-13 version for the kids!!!
by Bob Cryptonight
Just like they did with SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER back in the day. The marketing can claim "Now EVERYONE can see the classic film that Harry Knowles et. al. calls..."
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The Watchmen was a brilliant adaptation for you all you fucking losers that are crying over a damn SQUID!!!!!!! Get a fucking life! I hated Snyder's Dawn of the Dead remake, but what he did with the Watchmen is brilliant. I would love for him to reboot the Punisher movies.
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March 13, 2009, 11:37 a.m. CST
that was the most pathetic thing i have ever read
by Arcadian Del Sol
This makes Harry's pimping of "FailBoys" almost palatable.
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Snyder directed an excellent adaptation of the Watchmen! All you fucking losers keep crying about a damn SQUID! Shut up! Most of you probably illegally downloaded the damn thing and dish out criticism as if you really know what the hell you're talking about. This movie is too damn smart for the average American. If you want to eat shit, buy advanced tickets for the Queerlight Series (Twilight Series)!! If you have brains, go see the Watchmen tonight and a real theater, not on your mommy's laptop while you sit in your dark bedroom!
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"But, this new ending was supposed to make it more accessible right?" Wrong. No one has ever said that. The filmmakers said that they changed it for exactly two reasons, neither of which has to do with accessibility. They changed it because the new ending takes less time to set up, and the movie is almost three hours long. And they changed it because after giving ground in a lot of other disputes, the studio simply refused to allow them to show the graphic civilian deaths the squid ending entailed.
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Fuck sake. Really, guys? Really?
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March 13, 2009, 11:44 a.m. CST
And Fleshmachine, I don't expect you to read anything at all
by FluffyUnbound
Because if you're one of the people I'm talking to you're too stupid to read. That's my point. Maybe it's foolish to berate stupid people for their lack of reading comprehension when the only way you can do so is in writing, but I'm willing to accept that. Most of my posts I'm actually writing for myself, anyway, so ultimately I don't give a shit if you read it or not.
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Shakespeare was for the masses. As was Opera. You weren't there and I get that you are quite limited by the things beyond your eyesight and catered demographic. A great story, great literature, great art is not determined by Genre, but by artist and content. If you don't allow brilliance to come from unexpected places then you are indeed old and so sadly myopic. Cheers pudding brain!
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Yes, because the best way to convince us to see it again is to compare us to someone who goes back to their attempted rapist...This is a particular good argument to make about a movie where possibly the weakest actress in a major movie I've ever seen was cast as Silk Spectre, yes misogyny cannot be cried when you add that. Not to mention "The ending doesn't make any sense" comes less out of fanboy anger than the fact that earth uniting against an EXTERNAL UNEXPLAINED enemy would much more plausibly cause world peace, than the world being attacked by a FORMER DIRECT SYMBOL of US SUPREMACY who went OUT OF THEIR CONTROL and killed millions
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so buck up little troopers! There's always next Christmas! Don't jump off the bridge! Turn that angry frown into a happy clown!!! Get a couple kazoos and watch MTV with some friends while playing along with the music!! If that doesn't work you can always clean out each other's assholes with clorox or something.<p>And don't forget to call me an asshat for daring not to think exactly as you, you fucking wankers! Hahahah! Mus be cuz I got no reedin comohenzen eh Dr. Suess??<p>Ok, sorry bout all that. Had to vent a little, make myself present in this potentially minor legendary TB, be a pretentious asshole, etc...usual shit for a Friday I s'pose. Farts in elevators can be easily covered up with a simple clearing of the throat. In fact, this works anywhere. No need to walk in pain at the grocery store! Clear the throat, release the hounds!
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was a fine example of how good you can make a sci-fi flick on a limited budget. Funny as hell!
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I'm not saying that Watchmen is better than the Dark Knight. I just mean that it's a lot easier to make a PG-13 movie, but you're going to lose the ability to explore certain themes and show certain images. You can argue whether or not Watchmen explored those themes adaquatly or not but the fact is that if Watchmen bombs it will be that much harder to make R rated big budget movies. I'm not speaking of comic book movies specifically. <p> FluffyUnbound is right. I would just add on to his post that Watchmen is awesome and there is an awful lot of unnecessary nit picking going on out there.
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Can you not see that, at the very least, a CORPORATION let ZS make a very expensive, very risky, TOTALLY BALLS OUT (in every way) movie. Forget for a second that it's an adaptation. When was the last time a huge, expensive movie was this explicit, this up front with its violence, sex, and sexuality. We should all be supporting this film just because if we don't, then it's back to watered down, pc bullshit like we've had for the last 20 years. hey-zeus e christo, you guys want to cut off your noses just to spite your faces. Me, I'm taking a 90 minute trip tomorrow so I can see it again in IMAX. Then I'll probably see it again before the week is over. Of course, this is the closest I'll ever get to seeing the Blue Beetle on the big screen, so I am a tad biased. But still, wake up people. We need this movie, whether you like it or not.
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Probably an earlier showing before all the high schools let out.
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"We need this movie, whether you like it or not." <p> The suits are watching. Are they going to give their directors something closer to free reign or will the focus groups rule? Think carefully before you shit all over this movie.
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HOW IRONIC <p> GREENGRASS, COME BACK ! REMAKE AND REBOOT THIS PIECE OF TRASH JUST LIKE LETERRIER DID WITH HULK !
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that dementedness - that disturbing lack of soul or humor to the violence in this movie was not a misfire on the directors part - those scenes were needed and needed to be as ugly as they were - its a big part of what the movie (and book) is about - on the assumption theyre real, what exactly is a super hero? - were the comedian and rorschach heroes? - they were violent, selfish, vengeful monsters with no sense of empathy or remorse - their acts of violence in the movie were not meant to be seen as cool or cathartic or funny - i loved that - but maybe i didnt get it - some people behind me laughed when that prisoner got deep fried and when the pedophile got hacked - i was a bit shocked - and i read the book - but its different in a comic - people laugh at violence in movies like this because they need to not because its particularly funny - i found all the ugly scenes in this movie disturbing and i think that was the intent - im seeing it again
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i saw it on an imax screen - does anyone know if the format/framing is different seen on a regular screen - was it shot wider? - it was amazing in imax
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Get back to recording the EA intro, David, don't lower yourself by begging with this shameful play
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I never made a statement of quality about comics compared to other arts. I said that maybe I personally don't look at comics the same way I look at other arts. There are obviously comics that have touched a nerve in people, ala "Watchmen", "Dark Knight Returns". I just feel that comics are too limiting an art form to break into the stratosphere of "great art".<br /><br />It's not snobbery to say that part of the comic genre is action. Action is one defining element of comics. So when one goes to see a comic book movie, they expect action, no matter what the marketing. (I am allowing that there are exceptions to this rule) It's perfectly fine to break genre conventions, but you better do a damn fine job, or else people will have negative reactions.<br /><br />Could comics be considered great art someday? Sure. Like you said, Shakespeare and Opera were for the masses. Of course, Shakespeare was also highly regarded my the masses at the time. While comics have gained a lot of popular support, I would venture to say they have a long way to go to gain the respect enjoyed by other highly regarded art forms.<br /><br />I admit my hang-ups. We all have them. I do try and look past them, but as with any bias, it's a constant battle. Maybe it's because comics are so flooded with mediocre material it's hard to find the better works. Whatever it is, this movie failed to make a case to me. And I genuinely wanted to like it, too.
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EA needs to get David back in the studio to record those intros and not lower himself by offering this embarrassment of a plea letter.
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if i have one criticism on the depiction of the gore and violence - it is that snyder tends to linger a beat or two longer than needed - less can be more sometimes - but then again, maybe he is making some point by forcing the viewer to look (or look away) longer than they really want to - he did it in 300 - like with the beheading of the captains son
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To see him "beg" people to go see the awful fucking movie he wrote because his career is now in jeopardy- and the worse part- is if people DO go see it, it will be a trend for ALLl the studios to have people who worked on the film get on their knees and beg people to go see it when it tanks.
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he is suggesting that if you have seen it and liked it and plan on seeing it again, see it again sooner rather than later - that was my take
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I guess I don't understand what was so shocking about the gore, violence, and sex in this movie. It was pretty tame by some R movie standards. I guess I felt a lot of the violence was tempered by the fact that there was a big blue dude hanging around most of the time. Made the violence less real.
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like The Dark Knight did and then the regular folk who never would have come out to see a superhero movie would have turned up in the thousands to gawk at the last performance of(add actor) either that or cast Christian Bale in every role of the Watchmen so that all the fan boys around these parts can give him lots of man love.
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Because if you read between the lies, you'll seee the voice of one very scared man. This guy pretty much has a career devoted to comic adaptation and voiceovers, so If Watchmen bombs, he won't be getting to many gigs in the future.
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You are officially the first person to acknowledge one of my posts, other than my first post ('Hey, this is my first post.' 'Welcome to AICN."). It seems like a lot of people are missing the point here. He's not worried about his career, he's worried about the future of cinema. As I have been for the past, I don't know, decade? Remember 1999? What a great, groundbreaking year for cinema that was? Watchmen could do that again, all by itself, if the geeks would unite for once. I'm going around work begging people to go see WM on Hayter's behalf. "This is important. This means something." I really think it does.
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no gigs from you i guess - but his career is in no real danger
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They made the first one with jack armstrong playing shawn and that was a movie that played in theaters, then they made the far better direct to VIDEO emphasis on video cause this was way back in 94 and that one starred Dave Hayter as the Shawn/Guyver. And actually this letter is not at all surprising coming from him. On the amazon page for guyver 2, he wrote a comment/letter thanks the fans of that movie for giving him his start in hollywood. He also wrote the first 2 x-men movies. I bet right now he's sitting on a script for a hard core $150 million R rated 3-D guyver adaption with a cgi guyver and zoanoids. He wants to make that movie and if this movie tanks that movie will never get made.
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i wonder what women groups will protest
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When you're right, you're right. And right now, you're right!
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Well, all opinions on WM aside...isn't this introducing an artificiality in the business? This is somewhat balzebub's advocate here as I agree that we need more ambitious projects like Snyder's Watchmen and less of Mr. Fantastic busting a move on the dance floor and Thing dropping idiot highschool kid lingo but if a movie sucks, then it should be allowed to suck and if its great enough to get people to see it multiple times in a row then they'll do that. I saw Braveheart like 3 weekends in a row and all 3 Lord of the Rings movies at least twice in the theater within a week or 2 of each viewing. If someone had asked me to see it again if I liked it I wouldn't have balked at the idea but it does sound like its introducing an inorganic element into the proceedings and as Popeye says "Wrong is wrong, even if it helps ya!"<p>Then again, I'd love to never ever see big studio money spent on shit like the FF movies or (ugh) Catwoman, Daredevil, etc so even if it is artificial or even wrong, it's better than getting more chuckEcheese bullshit rom-com comic book movies.
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first of all,whoever doesnt know it,david hayter is the voice of solid snake for all the usa releases of metal gear solid games. <p>now since the movie is a flop as u can see here: http://tinyurl.com/bmpnwy <p>so solid snake cries and begs us to go and watch his and snyders crapfest,because the things arent going very well for this franchise. <p>what am i saying? FUCK YEAH AND FUCK THEM.MOORE GOT HIS REVENGE.
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I get ya. But I think you mean "Superhero Comics" and not comix. Try these off the top of my head. Maus (Art Spieglman), The Spirit (Will Eisner), The Rabbi's Cat (Joann Sfar), The Unknown Soldier (1988 12 part series by Jim Owsley), The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Alan Moore), Criminal (Ed Brubaker), Sleeper (Ed Brubaker), Starman ( James Robinson and Tony Harris), Fables (Bill Willingham), Ghost World (Daniel Clowes), The Sandman ; Season of Mists (Neil Gaiman), Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth (Chris Ware), Love and Rockets (Gilbert Hernandez and Jaime Hernandez), Astro City (Kurt Busiek), The Books of Magic (1993 Neil Gaiman)... Only 1 or two of those are even arguably "hero books" but I would argue there is a lot of great art in that small list..
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What then, Mr. Hayter? What if I shrugged mightily? What if I thought, "that was okay" and then moved on with my life? Tell you what, how about I DON'T spend another $12 to have a film director shout, "hey guys, look at me, aren't I cool, aren't I one of you" for three hours? I liked a lot of the film, and I might have been inclined to catch a matinee 2nd viewing, but bullshit pandering like this stops me short. And please, Mr. Hayter, don't act like you understand this crowd and then commence to cajoling them into spending extra money (in such an awesome economy) on your fucking film. You understand nothing.
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not metal gear solid, that can be the third one. oh and its the power of the squid that determines the power of the fans, so don't piss in their eye next time.
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Yup. It's going to make it as a cult classic and eventually make some studio a LOT of money. But it may not be a huge second weekend kind of film. And studios will continue to put out the less obviously commercial work at the same slow pace they always do. Brazil got made, so did Blade Runner. Watchman won't make or break anything and I doubt Mr Hayter's letter will make a bit of difference to the bottom line. That said, I would like to see the movie again. But not this weekend. BTW, great script :-)
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March 13, 2009, 1:38 p.m. CST
When you an OK film, you only get an OK box office
by The Lonely Dachshund
Mr. Hayter, <P> You guys didn’t make an amazing, widely appealing film. So, don’t ask for an amazing, wide spread box office. <P> Desperately asking fans to support the film just so more films like it will be made is faulty logic at best. That’s like saying “eat whatever we feed you or we’ll let you starve. And if you starve, that’s your fault.” How about this? Make an entertaining film that is respectful of its source material and accessible and engaging to everyone and we’ll fervently support it. <P> If WATCHMEN blew everyone away, you wouldn’t be writing this letter. And it’s not about being authentic to the source material or catering to fans. DON’T HIDE BEHIND THAT EXCUSE! Peter Jackson took liberties with the “Lord of the Rings” films from the source material and those movies did just fine. Why? Because they were entertaining to fans and non-fans alike. Same as “Batman Begins” and “The Dark Knight.” Neither of them were slavish adaptations but still found the life inside the material and projected it on the screen. I have never read an “Iron Man” comic book in my life but I had a great time watching the movie. <P> Don’t put the blame on the fans for not supporting this and that it is somehow our fault for not embracing your film. A great movie is a great movie. Period. And if you had made a great movie, we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place. So, please, don’t ask the fans to act as if this is a great movie and try to give it a great box office simply so you guys will have another opportunity to make another soulless adaptation further down the road. <P> The Lonely Dachshund
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Dickens was paid by the word and quite literally every artist out there dreams of doing what they love for a paycheck, so your comment about it being a product lacks profundity or insight. The film, like the graphic novel, is art, whether or not you personally like it. If this was a letter from somebody like Uwe Boll or Anderson, then I could understand the response that some of you are unleashing here but Hayter and Snyder are not the problem with Hollywood and if you think they are you are delusional. Snyder put his balls on the line by spending 120 million dollars of studio money to make a very literal adaptation of a dense, complicated graphic novel and that fact alone means he and those who worked on the film deserve some measure of respect. I understand that there are plenty of people who didn’t like this film and while I don’t agree with their rationale I can respect their derision because my opinion doesn’t require their consensus to appreciate what Snyder has accomplished. What irks me is the ridiculous level of exaggerated hate this film has received when there is literally an endless supply of insipid shit to ridicule and deride coming out of the Hollywood machine, including the next romantic comedy starring Kate Hudson and an endless string of parody films. The Watchmen film doesn’t deserve this level of hatred simply because a handful of vocal fan boys cut a slit into their copies of the Watchmen GN and dry fucked it while chanting Allen Moore repeatedly. The hate is extreme, hyperbolic, and just plain fucking ridiculous and worse, it’s typically short sighted; the pedantic, banal musings of blowhards who found a voice on the net and made that voice shrill and unpleasant.
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You've already fucked one story, don't want you fucking another. Get me the Nolans please!
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...Good God, it's been out a week. It's already made $100m world wide. With a $100m production budget and reportedly $50m on marketing I'd say this thing will clear the break even point. DVD sales should be a nice little profit as well. Just because something doesn't gross Dark Knight numbers doesn't mean it failed.
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you hit the nail on the head
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I hope to god this doesn't drop like a rock this weekend or it's true... we won't see another film this daring for another 30-40 years.
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See, the fact that "widely appealing" and "Amazing" go together in your mind, that says so much. So many great things don't have wide appeal. That's probably why Hayter is asking for geek support. Man, it's so sad that you think that way. Do you think American Idol picks the best singers? Damn... I just want the Uber Watchmen DVD to come out. That's all. Then you fellas can talk forever about your video game movies dreams.
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the pple who didnt like it, was it because of the Squid? I thought the movie achieved the best possible attempt at adapting the material. the flaw comes from the material itself. The squid is just too much of a deus ex machina type of thing. unless they set it up from the beginning it wouldve looked absurd. plus i dont understand why sally liked the comedian?
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And did this country deserve 8 years of George Bush? We voted for him. But did we deserve what we got? No. We didn't. Nobody could know what that idiot would do. Sometimes people don't realize what they are going to lose with the decisions that they make. Imagine film for the last few decades if most of the great films had made what Spiderman or Harry Potter make. They don't, but that doesn't mean that it's the films 'fault'. Most of the greats take years to reach their full audience and they because classics watched repeated over decades. Watchmen is one of those films. It would be nice if Watchmen made big money as well, so we can have more of this type of film with this type of budget.
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its possible for a movie to be amazing and NOT widely appealing - like 2001, blade runner, brazil, altered states, excalibur, dune(yes, the 1984 lynch version) and countless more - if this movie doesnt make "dark knight" money that is not a sign that it is inferior or a bad movie - the uninitiated that dont like it or get it never will, until they catch up - the fans that dont like it need to realize this is an example of getting as close as possible to adapting a comic to film (imo) - which raises the question that for some people (like moore) some books are unfilmable - if thats why so many fans of the book hate it, i say take it or leave it - ill take it - i can live with the fact that ill never see the perfect star wars prequel or alan moore comic adaption
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By next year no one will care about this film apart from the people who care about this letter. It was a good film but lacked the payoff of a good paced ending.
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you like giving heads?
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and that letter has solid snakes bullshit smeared all over it. i liked the movie btw. this just seems kind of desperate.
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It cost $300 M to produce and market, and only made $50 M on its first weekend at theatres. A total flop by today's standards! And then, it made $100 M on it's first week as a DVD. It's a different world; I'd rather own the director's cut of 'Watchmen' than see it on a standard megaplex screen.
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It was fucking AWFUL.
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that is just one more detail in the movie that i liked - ms jupiter was as flawed as blake - he was a rapist sociopath but she still found him attractive and wanted him - not very superhero-like but very jerry springer
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I agree: “Amazing” and “Mass Appeal” do not go hand in hand. But they do if you’re looking for a huge box office (a la The Dark Knight or LOTR numbers). When it’s an OK movie and only appeals to the fan base, that’s fine in and of itself. No problem here. But then don’t expect huge numbers at the box office. And don’t be surprised when it drops like a stone the second weekend.
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March 13, 2009, 2:31 p.m. CST
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Fantastic Four, Punisher, Dar
by Stabby
Ghost Rider, Elektra, Batman and Robin, Batman Forever, The Spirit, The Phantom, Sheena, Barbed Wire, Tank Girl. Those are some shit-assed superhero/comic book movies. Watchmen rises way above these films. Like the film or not I think you all need to put things in perspective instead of living in an alternate universe where fanboys have Dr. Manhattan-like abilities to create their own personal vision of a Watchmen film out of thin air without having to do all the hard work of actually creating a movie. And guess what, if such a world existed there would plenty of douchebags who would hate your version too.
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if the american guyver tells you to do something, it best be done. unless youre a lefto pink commie zoanoid.
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i remember i vomited in the theatre when watching it. gross. just kidding. that movie was awful though.
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could be that long lost Kubrick film based on that horrible rape joke. He can call it Blade runner II
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it makes fun of superheroes in the same way liberals make fun of God.
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Thank you for stating my case far more eloquently than I could. Antonphd, that's what I've been telling co-workers all day. Sure, we'll see more daring, risky, risque films, but will they be backed by 100+ dollars? Not if Watchmen tanks, or drops like a rock. Still, I have faith in the fanboys (god knows why). We have to make this a hit, for all of our sakes. If not-Ghost Rider II. Think for one fucking second. Whatdonchufuckinunderstand?
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I thought the point he was making with that part of his letter was a pre-emptive strike against those who claim to have had their childhood raped at the drop of a hat. That they claim to have been violated by a movie, but will secretly go back again if for no other reason than to pick at the wound.<br><br> I really liked the movie despite having some issues with it (the make-up WAS really bad, Malin Akerman likewise), but it amped me up enough that I'm anxiously awaiting the Ultimate DVD release and I fully admit to have shedding a tear or two when Rorshach demands to be murdered.
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You know the Watchmen movie was mediocre and it boils down to the damn script, I'm tired of every fucking movie having to be hard R rated is everyone retarded its like 90 percent of all movies mad are R rated and they are the least grossing and statistically the shittiest movies, You go to the harry potter talkbacks and you get delusional people saying i hope the next harry potter is a Hard R what the hell? Anyways I digress my homebrew is fucking awesome, the Watchmen movie suffers from a shitty screenplay thats all, zack snyder did a great job with the visuals and the actors were for the most part pretty good, especially that guy that played the comedian, but thre was no point of view to the whole movie it was just a disjointed mess of recreations from the novel and that just doesn't cut it when you pay 12 bucks to go see a movie that will entertain first, and intellectually stimulate you 2nd, instead of boring half the cinema. People snoring and walking out in a packed house is pretty freaking distracting.
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dioxholster, it doesnt so much make fun of them but expand on the idea of what a superhero is, and what drives them, etc. lol@you believe in an imaginary man in the sky rotflmgdmfbao!11!1!
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I are excellent english spaker.
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because they want to be like Rihanna?
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"but thre was no point of view to the whole movie it was just a disjointed mess of recreations from the novel" actually i agree with this quite a bit, and on second viewing the part where they diverted from the comic (i.e. the end) kinda had less stilted dialogue. I thought the "i love you mom" and surprised reacion by the first silk spectre was pretty good, and stuff like that
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I never quite figured out why, but I have learned, through experience, that the worse I treat a woman, the more they love you. I'm not talking about physical violence, but just be an aloof prick who walks all over them (not literally), takes advantage of them, and generally treat them like shit and they will LOVE you forever. No joke. I think its because they hate themselves.<br><br>Nothing is a bigger turn off for a woman than a "nice guy." Women HATE nice guys. They like abusive jerks. Its just the way it is.
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I agree there are great films that are not widely appealing. And I love most of the films you cite. And WATCHMEN is not inferior to films like The Dark Knight BECAUSE it made less money. It will make less money because it has niche appeal and isn't as entertaining. If WATCHMEN blew away a majority of the people walking out of the theater last weekend, it would be making money hand over fist. But it didn’t. It’s a good adaptation and has some spectacular visuals. But ultimately, it didn’t connect with a wide audience and even didn’t connect with some of the geek crowd (of which, I’m a proud member). <P> Do you think people will still be talking about and watching WATCHMEN 20 to 30 years from now as we do 2001 and Blade Runner? I think this is highly unlikely.
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It's crazy, I just spoke to God Tuesday. He mentioned you. He said that when he made you, he put a turd in your skull because he was out of brains. He also mentioned that he forgot to tell you that you shouldn't over use the turd or it will overheat. He knew I would be chatting with you and asked me to pass on the message. Plus, nobody likes the smell of overheating turds. Cheers.
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Stop deleting my posts. David Hayter is THE GUYVER! Damnit this movie needs to make money so I can have my dark gore filled 200 million dollar budget GUYVER ADAPT! I want it now. I want them to go back to source the manga and create a story dark like the 2nd story arc where the guyver kills Shawn's father! I Want to See GUYVER III on the big screen in all of his glory! NOW DAMNIT NOW
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So much for any chance on a 150 Million Zombie Flick...
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Oracle always went for that jerk Nightwing and the best I could get was some late night cybersex. There's nothing sadder than a costumed crimefighter jerking off on his keyboard.
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...that was my exact same worry at the thought of Watchmen tanking.
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thats what i have been doing to your mom. and she loves my cock more than ever! but seriously u cant be serious. if u treat em like shit, then they should hate you. thats what my parents told me. and it makes sense to me too.
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that no one wants to see penis in a movie except for fans of the graphic novel. No normal person cares to see Doc's thing and since we geeks aren't numurous enough rake in cash for WB...you guys are kind of screwed. I like art movies, we here(most of us) like art movies. The audience that makes you 500 million at the box office doesn't and thats why art movies never make 500 million dollars. and don't anyone dare say that titanic was an art film.
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thats what one chick told me. back in high school she said when she sucked she noticed the guy;s penis turned uber red when erected and she thought it was funny as hell, made her such harder.
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After viewing the sheer magnitude of that 'tryout' concept picture... And now realizing that incredible wideshots of every single detail from that battle will be demoted to some shitty POV Cloverfield view... I just might have to drug, drag, and force friends (and myself) back to Watchmen this weekend
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Who gives a good GOD DAMN about a penis? No normal person should give a shit about whether or not a penis is visible. It's anatomy. And this particular piece of junk isn't even real! Everybody knows someone that has a penis. I suspect that some of you have one, even if you don't have the balls to go with it. I'm an American, but goddamn if we aren't fucked in the head when it comes to sexuality.
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i was responding to another poster - sally's attraction to blake makes her human - women with low self esteem or security issues are drawn to dominating men that abuse them physically and verbally - even if theyre super heroes or gods - they get a false sense of shelter from harm from these brutes - ironic - - brilliant - something we never see in a super hero movie
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Having read your letter, I can now see why the script of Watchmen went wrong. I get that a dense 12-book comic will have to be cut; I can deal with cuts. I can't deal with rewrites to a work of genius. You changed the ending and you changed the act that made Rorschach Rorschach. You changed him from a compulsively moral vigilante to a sociopath. You changed an apocalyptic, deeply effecting climax into a sad joke. You even changed the story's coda into a bad sit-com. Shame on you. Where the film adheres to the novel, it's brilliant. Where it sucks, it's due to you. Shame.
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...the more it seems like it'll be the "next Watchmen" in terms of property adaptations. This site's gonna go fucking nuts over it a year from now.
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I've actually been pretty confused by all the "OMG SO MUCH PENIS" comments in reviews and such. I saw the movie in IMAX and the only times I even noticed the blue phallis was the scene where there were 3 Manhattans on screen, and the scene where he appears in the cafeteria. That's like maybe 5-10 seconds out of 2 hours and 45 minutes.
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My problem with the blue penis isn't so much that it's there, but I kept looking to see how well the CG penis rendered. And in my opinion, it looked kinda...weird. It didn't quite move right and it didn't look very real. Now I suspect that part of it is that they didn't want it to look too real or else they risk an NC-17. That being said, it was just unnecessary and completely irrelevant to the story they were telling, so it just became a distraction.
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He's like Ozymandias and he's trying to convince the cinemagoing public to go and see his alien squid of a movie, to protect the world against the greater evil of shittier films. <br> <br> Well I'm Rorschach, asswipe. Fuck you. There's no such thing as a WORTHY shit film. There are just shit films.
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i think the key BoxOffice problem with this story is it's attack on America's love of singular heroes. We need a beloved president, we need to win wars, we need "true love". And this story mocks all that. I've seen it 3 times. Mostly because I could not believe what an INCREDIBLE adaptation it was. I think it brilliantly maintains the book's : attack on everything we hold dear in america. So good luck dragging non-geeks to it. And fuck all these geeks who can't see past the movies glorious tongue in cheek action, posing, and music. I think this will do down as a Blade Runner experience- where years later people will say "jesus that flic was dark has hell. Why didn't people flock to see it during that big recession?" You know, when they'd just elected a hero president to give them hope? why didn't they want an epic dark laugh? (except it's not bombing THAT badly right? i thought it was doing alright). Ultimately, this movie is more like the matrix sequels than the dark night. it's more about lofty politics/philosophy than the price true heroes must pay. And it's making people check their watches when they're presented with the backstories for so many brand new characters, while the dark knight didn't stop the movie's steadybuild for backstories on unfamiliar characters. ... I'm proud to say I'm totally buying the shit out of Watchmen tie ins, and love the movie to death. but i'm not suprised it's having trouble.
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or something to help readers sift through all the bullshit. like if a post gets 5 thumbs down then it is minimized until you click it? I'm stunned by people's obsession with the blue penis. The idea that a god like figure walking around naked, because he's disconnected from humanity's current social graces - is part of the story. It's stunning how many people aren't comfortable with the human body. It's stunning that people are walking out of this complicated movie and can only say "wow, there sure was a lot of cock!". jeeeeeeeesus wept! ... alternately these talkbacks could use a ratings button like "deliver a horrific suffering cancer to this moron."
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...though it didn't go anywhere. I can't remember if Kojima/Konami shut it down or if the studio he showed it to rejected it.
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I saw it last Saturday in Portsmouth at 4:00pm on the Odeons biggest screen, it was a third full and I'd say the majority of those in attendence where middle aged and above. For the record I loved it and found myself wanting more, my girlfriend who knew nothing about the comic (But does enjoy super hero movies in general)hated it and was bored well within the hour. She likened it to the Spirit, harsh I thought but still each to their own I guess. I couldn't gauge the crowds reaction but I don't recall anybody walking out midway or slagging it come the credits. I'm seeing it again (Yes this sunday, I really liked it that much) with a group of guys who know next to nothing about it. One of them however has expressed grave concerns about seeing it as he's been told it's absolute shit and that large numbers are walking out demanding refunds. I told him how much I like it and how much I love the Graphic Novel and he says that could be my problem and that love is blind and maybe I'm not viewing it for what it is. He'll make his opinion but I fear that like the general public he'll end up prefering the likes of Incredible Hulk and X3. I guess this is the problem as the Watch Men is cherished by the true devotees and it was never really ever meant to appeal to anyone else but us. This was always gonna be special and a hardsell to the masses. Yes they like standard Superhero stuff, like my girlfriend, but even when Dark Knight was raking in close to a billion how many of them, having never read a comic book in their life, popped in to the local comic shop and put in a standing order afterwards? Next to none I'd wager. It's easy to jump aboard the band wagon when a recognisable character reaches the screen and is played by the flavor of the month but some things no matter how good they are will never be truely appreciated as they should. I guess the line In What About Bob springs to mind, "There are two kinds of people in this world, those that like Neil Diamond and those that don't". I guess now we have to except that what Zack has given us is really as good as it gets (bar the directors DVD cut) as I can't see this ever being remade. The numbers just aren't there to make it worthwhile. The film by and large is the Graphic and apart from giving us the Squid what more could be done in another adaptation? It's all really there in Zacks fine but flawed attempt. Nobody indifferent to the current movie would care to see another shot of it, face facts it over. Funny thing with the ending change is, (and I have no problem with the new ending at all) is why alienate the true fans to please the unknowing? Given that the majority will never have read the Graphic how would they know if things have changed or not, what's really in it for them to have a different ending, at the end of the day they walk out of the cinema and head home for burger and chips, to them it's just another movie. Still fanboys argue amongst themselves with some saying they love the film but the true ending should have stayed and then there are those who say it was too faithful and in turn became boring as they knew what was to come. All I know is that after many many years of nothing I now have something to watch and admire and failing that I still have the Graphic and the animated movie. I guess that will just have to be enough.
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I'm completely serious. Of course, they SHOULD hate you, but they won't. I'm telling you; the worse you treat a woman, the more they love you. Women DO NOT LIKE NICE GUYS. They like assholes who treat them like shit. You'll learn.
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Saw it in IMAX tonight for the first time - it fell flat. I'm curious to see if the extended cut fares any better.
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thanks so fuck for this labor of love. it was clear a lot was put into retaining the iriginal feel. as a valiant Watchmen fan all i can say is thank you, thank you, thank you, and fuck all the haters. topfivevideo clearly lives in his grandma's basement and prefers paul blart style films. can't please em all!
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just read stabby's post, he owned these boards. commence seppuku lemmings.
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March 13, 2009, 4:27 p.m. CST
I'm just waiting for the spin-off medical series - MANHATTAN, M.
by brokentusk
Nurse: "Doctor, the patient is dead!" <p> Dr. M: "A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there’s no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts." <p> Nurse: "Er, so what do I tell the family?"
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Fucking AICN.
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Dude, that should be a cartoon. If I draw it, I'll credit you as the author. Cheers -Redbox - aka Stuff Daddy!
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For years I've sat back and read the comments by fanboys who feel that they have a degree of ownership over any source material: be it comic book, graphic novel, video game, original series or movie. And soon as someone gives an honest, sincere, unsuperficial crack at producing a story based on that material, all I've seen as a result of that work is unabashed hatered. You stand around the comic book store; hashing out commentaries to the cashier who would love nothing more than to tell you to either shut your trap, get a life, or to just put it on your facebook blog. I actually think David is a good screenwriter, and he did a great work with Watchmen. If you guys have bitched about Peter Jackson, and Speilberg, then there's no satisfying you. You will hate anything, you will mock everything, you will extend patience and understanding to few or no one. I wish upon you unconstructive critics nothing more than an uninterrupted continuation of your unsolicited virginity.
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these boards are filled with ungrateful cunts who would rather support paul blart, confessions of a shopohilic, or bratz. we finally get something worth watching and they complain about it endlessly...let them all rot with the trash they adore, noone is really paying any attention to it.
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What's blue, radioactive and very shiny on your chin? Deez Nutz, Beeeatch!
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Good point, wise one. If cunts could fly, then this would be a cunt-port.
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March 13, 2009, 4:49 p.m. CST
Nipples on batsuit...Indiana nuked in fridge...Big Blue Dong
by TheRealMikeJames
I am not a Watchmen fan, just a movie fan. I will re-watch on Blu-ray...hopefully they will have a feature where you can watch the Manhattan scenes without the big blue dong...God that was distracting and now my wife thinks I have a small one. Fucking Snyder...he is one Gay dude.
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I love art films, but as soon as Freddy Freckles has a budget to recreate one of the best graphic novels ever, I will go see it. Get off the fucking cross already would ya. Jesus Arthouse Christ over here.
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You are kidding, right? Does your brain work in such a selective and simplistic manner that you actually believe that all women are alike and respond to life in completely predictable ways? Does the vagina really grant such a spellbinding level of homogeneity? <p> Sure, some women are attracted to alpha male types. Some women have no interest in that. Some women like an aggressive guy for a good one night stand and nothing else. Some women are attracted to abusive assholes. And in that last case, that often stems from fucked up past events that have shifted their view of what constitutes good or bad treatment, so that even being treated like shit isn't so bad compared to what they've already been through. Or they rationalize the past abuse by "choosing" to repeat it. Or etc. etc. etc.--the list goes on and on, because women are not a bunch of walking vag-bots, always responding in kind. Seriously though, you really looking to exploit/exacerbate other people's trauma? <p> You're also assuming that just because a woman stays with a guy who's a dick, it's because she wholeheartedly enjoys it. Does she? Or does she simply not feel safe enough to outright fight back, instead seething with resentment until the day that she works up the balls to smother or castrate the guy in his sleep, or slip poison into his coffee? <p> Have fun finding out which it is, dude...
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Boil it down - it's a meditation on power and how it causes a disconnect from basic humanity, and it twists the concept of superheores on it's head to show that it wouldn't work out in the real world because they would fall to human frailty. Show me a mainstream blockbuster that says that. Show me a superhero movie that says that (For all of the complexity of Dark Knight, it's central hero is still a good guy at it's core) Hell, show me your ill-defined definition of an "art film" that says that. This is something people should remember: mainstream and big budget FX does not immediately mean that it's without artistic of philosophical merit. The good ones are allegories about people. It all boils down to if it's a good film, and Watchmen is.
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Do you really expect to see sex scenes that aren't campy in a story about superheroes? Did you want it to arouse you like it was Jenna Loves Brianna? Was it supposed to be emotionally moving, like when your Grandpa bounced you on his knee? Are you completely retarted and fresh from licking windows?
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Don't be silly. And don't be so friggin' self righteous either. But as a general rule? As a broad critique of behavioral tendencies of women? They LOVE being treated like shit. I know the more of a prick I am, the more the girl (or girls) I may be with like me. Like obsessively so. I'm not even joking. Maybe I gravitate to a certain kind of female. But MOST of my friends report the same phenomenon AS A GENERAL RULE, not every single person, obviously. <br><br> Let me guess, you've just taken your first feminist lit class? Thats so cute!
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SHH! Stop blurting out the secret
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Sorry, Mr. Hayter, but you lost me at "Hundreds of people put in years of their lives to make this movie happen, and every one of them was insanely committed to retaining the integrity of this amazing, epic tale." You could say that about any movie, really ... someone somewhere convinced hundreds to dedicate themselves to making, say, Mall Cop or Pro Life. Sorry, but the "do it as a fanboy for the fanboys" appeal is just weak. "See it again, even if it sucked!"
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But not because of Hayter (though I love me some MGS), rather because I'd like to see it on IMAX. That said, I donno if Hayter should be guilt-tripping us when Gilliam's latest film still hasn't even been picked up by a distributor. What the fuck kind of world do we live in?
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when you stop being so smug and condescending. <p> sorry. pernicious myths and broad generalizations regarding approx. half of the world's population tend to piss me off. <p> and you can fuck yourself with your patronizing "feminist lit" comment. Heaven forbid someone should disagree with you.
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Mall Cop and Pro Life were not graphic novels that won the Hugo award with a huge fanbase. People don't claim to pour all that time into films Bad Santa or Role Models. Please think before you type.
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you hadn't already read the source material? See, this is a big part of the problem. Snyder stayed so true to the source material in the least effective ways that he ended up making a pretty decent movie, not a great movie. Fanboys who love the book might like the movie, but complete strangers to the material may not get all that nuance that you think the movie packs in. <p> Incidentally, you're not doing yourself any favors with your "show me a mainstream blockbuster" bullshit since Watchmen is NEITHER mainstream NOR a blockbuster as of yet. <p> But if you want to talk mainstream blockbusters that discuss power causing disconnect and human frailty affecting the definition of a superhero, look no further than Spiderman 1&2. The first movie is about Peter learning to take responsibility for his powers, which he initially abuses The second is about Peter's rejection of his power because of the very distancing of which you speak. Now just because it's not a "dark" movie, does that mean it's less effective at forwarding those themes? <p> Watchmen addresses these themes, too, I'm not saying it didn't. BUT it also is nowhere near as clean a narrative as it should be, and that's largely because Snyder stuck to the structure of the comic. Which is one of several reasons Moore has given for his opinion that it's "unfilmable".
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it was a good movie, however it would have been a lot better with the squid. <p>any argument that the squid would have been absurd when talking about a sci fi comic book movie is just stupid. everything about comic books is absurd!<p> leaving out the squid was a half-assed attempt to help the movie connect with the larger movie going audience which i seriously doubt it did. when i first read the Watchmen i was left very confused by what was going on and i love comics. i can just imagine what the average movie goer (who loves their easy to digest storylines) is thinking while watching this movie. Four people walked out on the theater i was at. 2 before the first hour of the movie. Maybe they just went to the restroom, but it was a small crowd and i didn't see them come back. <p> this movie had very little chance of immediately appealing the mainstream movie goer with or without the squid. Hopefully its an acquired taste and over time people will learn to appreciate it more.<p>getting back to the squid. while i loved the movie, leaving in the squid would have made the movie so much better. having veidt frame manhattan was just too formulaic; essentially this movie is a murder mystery and in almost every murder mystery the bad guy tries to frame someone innocent. that's what made the squid scene in the comics so great (and when i first read the watchmen i thought the whole squid thing was stupid).<p>the squid is completely out of the blue(no pun intended), in terms of veidts crazy masterplan it makes perfect sense and it fits in perfectly not only with the sci-fi comic book genre but with the DC/JLA universe. i know these arguments have been repeated ad nauseum on this site, but after watching the watchman i couldn't resist repeating them. <p>i disagree, however, that the ending Snyder went with doesn't make sense because the Soviets would never believe America's Superman would go rogue and betray his homeland. The fact that veidt destroys NYC would be enough to convince for the most part. NYC is the heart of America in so many ways (Wall St. and Madison Ave). The Soviets would never believe the U.S. would cripple itself to such a degree, just in order to launch a nuclear attack that they could not be held responsible for. Its like stabbing someone in the back and then stabbing yourself in the heart in order to convince them you didn't do it so they won't retaliate.<p> the squid should have to left in to keep the fanboys happy. their enthusiasm for the GN would have driven the initial box office surge for this movie and maybe that enthusiasm would carried over to the general public. Even as i was buying my ticket the kid working the theater was complaining about no squid. I think not having the squid really hurt the word of mouth enthusiasm for the movie. the studios suits probably thought they could generate artificial enthusiasm with their marketing blietzkrieg, but unfortunately i don't think it'll work. I don't want this movie to fail, b/c its performance will determine whether or not Hollywood makes more comic book movies with R-ratings.
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"Soviets would never believe America's Superman would go rogue and betray his homeland" To quote Steve Martin in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels..."What? You ACTUALLY believe that?" 1/3 of Americans think Bush was behind 9/11 Numbnuts, and he was only president for about a year when it happened. Dr Manhattan was basically a US weapon of war for the US for 20 years in Watchmen. Also, NY is not the Heart of anything any more than anyplace else in the US. It's a city, like any other. Destroy it and the US goes on just fine. Try again.
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then he would keep Hayter away from any Metal Gear movie. The guy was good for one thing and one thing only: voicing Snake. Even then his VA work for Snake took a dramatic dive in MGS3 and MGS4. The only people I trust with that beloved story are the Coen Brothers and the Nolans.
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Please read my posts before replying to them. I'm well aware that Watchmen (the graphic novel) won a Hugo award. But how does that obligate anyone to see the MOVIE made from that graphic novel a second weekend in a row, particularly if they didn't like it? Well, apparently you have to see it again because everyone working on it just cared so damned much. And if it makes enough money, the studio just might greenlight another film based on an award winning property that the same caring people can fuck up.
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another thing i dont get, is when he multiplied. i know many women will go for that, especially if they are the same person if its possible because otherwise it will be shameful.
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If the movie had a Cthulian ending that buged you to no end I would go yesterday. I also think Jennifer Garner looks more the part of silk and can act like it's nobody's business and should have been cast for the part. This letter is just a beggers plea.
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I'll be seeing it in the theatre again. Ballsy filmaking needs support :)
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You know it. It doesn`t hold up to the source material, the slow-mo and the gore are as unnecessary as can be, and the "street characters" (lesbians, newsstandman and that comic book-reading coloured fella)were essential to the graphic novel. So was the symbolism, like the sprayed couple evoking Hiroshima. WATCHMEN was a fucking let-down, and it was NOT unfilmable. That material deserves a better, deeper film, and it WOULD be possible at three hours. Snyder is just a popcorn movie director who went for the pretentious "let`s do something intellectual"-shtick. It should have been treated as a literature adaptation, and I`m sure that Paul Greengrass would have done just that. Plus, I`m back, after Harry banned me about a year ago for hating on Eli Roth. Brrrrr, HOSTEL...
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i'm arguing that the destruction of NYC would convince the Soviets that Manhattan betrayed the U.S. <p>blowing up the world trade center is not the the same as destroying the entire city. <p>if you read what i wrote i said "in many ways" NYC is the heart of the U.S. i didn't say it was the heart of the U.S. which is why i mentioned Wall St. and Madison Ave. I think any sane person would agree that without NYC the U.S. would be severely crippled and things would not "go along just fine". Sure the country would keep going, but without NYC the nation would be seriously hurt.
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all he did was cry and fuck. thats all he did!
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coz i dont know. i know nothing of this shit. its weird.
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that way they would now about alien Gods wanting to enslave them. and SG-1 will be the new superheros! who arent pathetic!
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Does anybody know if soda water gets that stain out?
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March 13, 2009, 7:03 p.m. CST
JonSnow I totally agree with you on both points....
by BALZACS_BALLSAC
Squid would've made this film unique and Jennifer Garner would've been a wayyy better Silk Spectre as would have Adam West as the original Nite Owl.
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I really can't adequetly explain the amount of hatred I feel for the Watchmen "fanbase". I have not read the GN. What I do know is that this was a FANTASTIC movie. All you pussy nerds with your festering hate nodules can't get over a fucking missing squid. You're handed something 95% faithful and it's still not good enough. Well FUCK YOU. Just FUCK YOU. You try to make up for your complete lack of balls in real life by being a tough guy, over-analyzing prick on the internet. A man makes an impassioned plea for the movie's supporters to go and you have to pull your virtual dick out and try to smack him down. You are the most asinine people and I hate every fucking one of you. You'll really hate the next Fantastic Four movie that comes out and you'll never see the connection with your silly and immature reactions to this film. Again, just FUCK YOU ALL. I wish I could come up with something eloquent to explain my feelings but I know that none of you give a rats ass or listen because you're so intent on finding the next minor detail to rant on.
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Movie was very mediocre. End of story. The reviews are mixed, both within and without geekdom. This should have been something people remember in 20 years, a la BLADE RUNNER. But it`s not. Despite the brilliant sequence at the begiining of the film, this is more along the lines of Snyder`s previous outing 300. Just a forgettable pop flick with some gore and slo.mo, nothing else, When it could have been so much more...
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Blade Runner was a disaster at the box office when it was released. Roger Ebert thought the story was "cliched and thin" and didn't go on record as having changed his mind until 2007.<br><br> In other words, it's hard to say how something's going to remembered 20 years from now.<br><br> I remembered thinking that Burton's Batman was THE SHIT when it first came out, now I just think they're goofy and completely misses the point of the character.
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Point taken. I just don`t see WATCHMEN being remembered as great cinema. To me, it was a disappointment...
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What is the purpose of Rorshach's mask? Where'd he get it? What's the purpose? Does it mirror his emotions? Did he have superpowers? You can tell from my questions that the film failed miserably to bring in non-readers. For example, at what point was it stated that reactors were being placed in every major city? How is it the others seemed to have superpowers? There were huge, glaring flaws and terrible miscasting (Veidt being the biggest, Night Owl being the next, and Jupiter being the next). I will not see it again, or rent it, or buy it, which is sad. I think making this film was a no-win scenario. Please the fans and they alienate the mainstream. Please the mainstream, and the fans are furious. I think they may have tried the middle road, and ruined it for both. It's WAAYYY too long, and ended up slow and boring. Snyder took a step down from 300 with this, and the BO shows it. I'm sorry to say these things, but it's true. I so wanted to enjoy this film. I thought the intro and credits were simply spectacular, and the use of music in particular was great. A truly original film ... just one that fell flat.
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What is the purpose of Rorshach's mask? Where'd he get it? What's the purpose? Does it mirror his emotions? Did he have superpowers? You can tell from my questions that the film failed miserably to bring in non-readers. For example, at what point was it stated that reactors were being placed in every major city? How is it the others seemed to have superpowers? There were huge, glaring flaws and terrible miscasting (Veidt being the biggest, Night Owl being the next, and Jupiter being the next). I will not see it again, or rent it, or buy it, which is sad. I think making this film was a no-win scenario. Please the fans and they alienate the mainstream. Please the mainstream, and the fans are furious. I think they may have tried the middle road, and ruined it for both. It's WAAYYY too long, and ended up slow and boring. Snyder took a step down from 300 with this, and the BO shows it. I'm sorry to say these things, but it's true. I so wanted to enjoy this film. I thought the intro and credits were simply spectacular, and the use of music in particular was great. A truly original film ... just one that fell flat.
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all the reasons you stated as to why people might be turned away are the very reasons i loved it - in time it will get the respect it deserves, like blade runner and john carpenter's the thing finally did years after their theatrical debuts
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the mask isnt explained in the comic either - but i read it years ago and realy dont remember - personally, i dont need the mask explained - or ozymandias's super strength and speed explained - the movie kicked all kinds of ass imo
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The mask is explained in the comic book. Here's the wiki summary: After leaving school, Kovacs took a job as an unskilled tailor. The prospect of handling women's clothing caused him discomfort, and he later commented that the job was "bearable but unpleasant". A few weeks before her murder in front of an apartment, Kitty Genovese ordered a dress from him, made of a fabric created by Doctor Manhattan that used two pressure and heat-sensitive liquids suspended between a layer of latex to create black-on-white shifting color patterns, "always changing, never mixing into grey". When the dress was completed, Genovese was unsatisfied with the design, and she refused to pay for it. Kovacs took it home for himself, fascinated with the fabric. Upon reading of Kitty's murder in the newspaper, he became disgusted with the amount of crime in New York City and, creating a mask from her dress, became the vigilante Rorschach.
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So you're saying "Don't think about it? Don't wish for it to make sense?"
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Thanks for taking the time to write back. Can you see how the film can be frustrating for people who haven't read the comic? And it's obvious that if only people that have read it go see it, it will most likely lose money. It has to attract a mainstream audience in order to recoup its money. It'll plunge at least 50% this weekend, perhaps as much as 60%.
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No problem. I wouldnt be surprised to see that kind of material turn up on the dvd. I can see how Watchmen wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea and have mixed emotions about it myself (see way way above). But honestly, even the part of me that liked the film wouldn't care if it bombed.... that would ASSURE no one tries to make a sequel. So it's all good.
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Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
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no -i am saying "think about what youre seeing" - but think about wa=hats important, what the story is about and trying to say - its not about the mask or where it came from and why it looks as it does - i honestly didnt remember that mask origin story (thanks phaedrus007) - and not knowing anything about it while watching the movie didnt keep me from enjoying the hell out of it - i took it all on faith - faith that it all had an explanation - but explaining it all might slow shit down - like ozymandias's cat - he genetically engineered it - i do remember that from the book - it wasnt explained in the movie - and it didnt need to be for the movie to work - it wasnt about the cat - a story can make sense without all the minutia being explained - like the first star wars movie in 1977 - the viewer walks in on the action right in the middle - nothing was explained - you just flow with it and pay attention to whats important - it wasnt about how landspeeders defy gravity
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For getting back to me. But regarding the cat, yes it was distracting. As soon as you see it (someone who hasn't read the comic) you say to yourself, WTF???? It pulled me out of the story. It's VERY different from the Star Wars analogy you've given here ... that cat was not there for ANY purpose whatsoever except to satisfy the comic fans. It ended up detracting from the movie, along with countless other things. Anway, thanks for the chat. Timmer33
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The problem is that the 9/11 example proves you wrong. We have direct example of a massive attack on NY and the reaction to it. So saying something WOULD happen when we can see first hand that exactly the opposite happens is a little goofy. And for the record, The US would be fine without NY. Our current ridiculous welfare state spending is far more destructive to the economy than the destruction of the entire state of NY would be and the city of NY has very little value as a military target.
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WATCHMEN IN NAME ONLY!!!! WHY COULDN'T THEY ALL HAVE BEEN WEARING BLACK LEATHER, LIKE IN G.I. JOE??? G.I. JOE = WIN!!! WATCHMEN = EPIC FAIL!!!
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but the one we deserve.
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I don't think that's an issue. I think it's been pushed enough to get mainstream attention and interest. KEEPING the interest enough to see the movie more than once is the problem. And that's where the film really fails. Snyder made a film that is both trying too hard to appeal to fans of the source while also alienating many of those very fans. <p> To be a dick about TDK for a moment, since that film is getting brought up once in a while, the advantage Nolan has over Snyder is that Nolan is able to mask the script inadequacies with pseudo-intellectual bullshit posturing and deft technical filmmaking. Whereas Snyder isn't quite that talented.
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I've been desperate to see this a second time (and that was before I got a new and vastly better contact lens prescription!) but was going to wait until April since I'm leaving for Florida for two weeks on Monday (and, no, my 86-year old Mom, who sees almost everything and has great taste in movies, does not have this one high on her list). Insanely busy preparations must now cede to a second IMAX viewing late Sunday. I just won't sleep that night.<br><br> I'm very curious as to whether this notches way up on a quick repeat viewing (like The Fall did, or The Prestige did on its 3rd viewing), or whether it suffers the way Minority Report did. Right now I'm on the fence between ***1/2 and **** (leaning towards the latter) but I have the feeling it will cement itself on one or the other.<br><br> What's so fascinating about the response to this film is that I often share the criticisms of the underwhelmed, it's just that they are not adding up the good and the bad the way my brain is. I didn't have strong disagreement, e.g., with Peter Travers' review in Rolling Stone, but he gave **1/2 while writing a review that sounded like that of a ***1/2 rave. When your brain turns minor quibbles into major flaws, that's just bias, I think.
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... but for the shouting. And the shouting? Well, it's just the throngs of obsessive fanboys who've just been proved irrelevant. "FINALLY, comics are MAINSTREAM!" "WE'LL BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!" "COMICS ARE NOW LITERATURE!" "IT'S NOT A COMIC - IT'S A -GRAPHIC NOVEL-!" At the end of the day, though, wiser heads worldwide have prevailed and proved once again that comics fans are NOT the mainstream, haven't been and never will be, and that the sooner the comics geeks get back to their BIFF! BAM! POW! the better off the rest of the world will be. Nobody cares - WATCHMEN has been met with a massive, collective worldwide thud and the sound is society's jaw hitting the floor not from amazement nor eyeball-****ing, but from a great big yawn. Anyone who has ever put in a penny to make this movie was taing a gamble that people would take guys in rubber fetishwear as a form of serious entertainment. DARK KNIGHT? People went to that because it was "Batman" which is a known entertainment commodity, and because of morbid fascination with a dead actor who was that gay dude in that one ***fu***ing cowboy movie. That's what people are - that's what people were - and that's what people will forever be, and the sooner the world can get used to that and accept it, the sooner the rest of the world can get back to movies with names like THE REDEADENING and SHENANIGOATS. When I try to decide if a movie will do well or not, I think "What would Homer Simpson say sbout this?" You can usually use this model to predict the outcome - success or failure for the project. Sadly, Homer outdoes the throngs who are so busy smelling their own hands they've just put down the front of their pants to scratch their balls that the idea of a movie that gives them a single sliver-thin idea in their heads is ignored. Remember - when a medicine promotes an ad campaign called STOP. THINK. TYLENOL ? They're already asking people to do two things that are impossible for 90 percent of America to do.
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NYC has the majority of this nation's wealth and cripling it would be disastrous. A nuclear strike on it and 9/11 are not the same. There is a specific reason so many attacks have been attempted on it.
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The "always changing, never mixing into grey" is also a very important symbolic representation of Rorshach's worldview. Things are either black or white, there is no grey for him at all, and this is the very thing that seals his fate.
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So Hayter is trying to make us believe we MUST support this film and make it wildly profitable or Hollywood will never make another challenging comic book movie again ... newsflash to Hayter: Dark Knight has now made over $533M. It's gonna take a WHOLE lot of dud comic book movies for them to forget that figure. So don't worry, David -- your game changing, misunderstood movie (to summarize your whining) can do mediocre box office and it won't affect the industry! Honest!
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I have to say that I agree with about 70% of what you said. I am wondering if "Watchmen" might signal the beginning of the end of the "fanboy effect" on Hollywood movies. In other words, will the vocal minority no longer sway the films that get greenlit. Only time will tell.
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The origin of Rorschach's mask should have been incorporated to some degree. I think it's important. That spoke about his character.
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His letter does smell of desperation.
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it never works.
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it may be good, but not stellar in line with LOTR and The Dark Knight which by themselves are more than well enough to encourage studios to make future attempts at multi-layered fantasy/comic book movies for at least the next decade. Even Iron Man sounds better reviewed. Sorry, but Synder's not up there with Jackson who uses slo-mo at dramatic points, but ten times less. Sure, directors like actors can improve. But there are very few films that compel me to see more than once in a theater. "Gritty" movies have been around and will continue to be no matter the sucess of Watchmen. ex: "A Clockwork Orange", "Deliverance", "Blade Runner", "Jaws" etc.
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1st...thank you so much. 2nd tonight saw it for 2nd time with my buddy Bill. He watched it with myself and my wife the 1st time...this time he and I brought two Watchmen Newbies along with us. It's better the 2nd time around. Thanks again.
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Synder directs actors very well. And/or he knows how to get good performances from good actors. A real pro compared to Lucas for sure. I will be seeing Watchmen. I couldn't do it last weekend. The "squid" was also in LOTR:FOTR. And it worked great!
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