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AVATAR BS Straightened Out!
Hey folks, Harry here... Got an email from a panicky ABking pointing to this story over at Marketsaw regarding an alleged 8 Trailers that Fox has cut for AVATAR that were then all rejected by James Cameron due to their inherent lameness. Plus rumors on ShoWest, and even some particularly off-putting rumor about Spielberg & Jackson on TINTIN (also not true btw). Now - shortly after the email from ABking - I began getting a flood of similar emails from some of you other readers also wanting me to address this story.
So I wrote Cameron to get his reaction and here's what he wrote back this afternoon...
Harry,
Good to hear from you. As usual the rumor mill is grinding out mostly spurious stuff. I have no plans at present to go to Showest, and in any event we have decided not to unveil material there.
As to the trailer story, I have no idea where that came from but I haven't rejected any trailers (yet) since I haven't seen any yet. They're still working on them for presentation, which presumably will be soon. I'm sure I'll reject a couple once I have the chance. Right now I'm just focused on having a movie to sell.
The cut is shaping up nicely and the stuff coming in from Weta Digital is astonishing. Every once in a while, as we are absorbed in some intensely detailed discussion about sub-surface scattering or the way a tail is moving in the animation, I'll just stop and have this moment of clarity, as if seeing it for the first time. And I realize that's what the lunar astronauts must have felt like. They'd be in the middle of some complex set of procedures and they'd look out the window and go "Oh, yeah. That's the frickin' moon!" It feels like that.
Anyway, back to the grind.
Jim out
So there you go, that's where things are currently on AVATAR.
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The Wolf Man is going to be the best movie 2009 anyway!
(At least for me.) -
Man, he better tone down with the hype. Because if it sucks, it's only going to make it worse for him.
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but I've only seen it from the surface of the Earth. =(
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it's just like chris klein's character in street fighter.
JIM OUT...slapping his celphone shut and posing with one leg up on a fence... -
...someone rails on Jim for alleged self-aggrandizing. Excuse him for making an analogy...
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SIXTH!
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still fuck my eyeballs?
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Invoking man on the moon in regards to his new movie, I think James Cameron has an awfully high opinion of himself. I'm sure it's going to look great, but give me a trip to the moon anyday over one of Cameron's cliche-ridden, simplistic popcorn flicks.
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You can try to fuck my eyes all you want, Jum, but the eyelids are likely to be down until you actually amaze me with something. So far I've seen some pics of some standard looking aliens and read that the Terminator guy is in the lead.Phaser set to "Do Not Care" at the moment.
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for my eyeballs to be fucked in 2009.
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And if Cameron is reading this, you are a filmmaking GOD, my friend!
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Lunar landing, eh?
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Mar 11, 2009 4:36:56 PM CDT
u guys are taking his Lunar Moon landing reference way out of co
by mattforce7
HES NOT saying the movie will be as awesome as that, but just seeing the amazing detail in animation and watching his movie unfold before his eyes is something that is pretty remarkable to HIM
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FUCK MY EYES
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And he means "making" this movie is that complex you fuckin dicks, And who cares its still going to be up to YOU if you like it.
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but then I pulled back, and had to look at the glorious bowl of cherios. omf a bowl of cherios! wow
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Mar 11, 2009 4:42:38 PM CDT
the moon will be fucking our eyeballs in... er... uh...
by jimmyjoe redsky
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search your feelings, you know it's true
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what Cameron thinks about the eye coitus and you didn't????????????????!!!!! (See what I did there? The excessive punctuation marks allude to the AICN of yore.)
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Mar 11, 2009 4:44:53 PM CDT
HARRY - ask Jim about the rumored first-person sequence.
by mr. nice gaius
I think that MarketSaw blog recently ran a story on what is being touted as a 10-12 minute first person-type sequence that occurs at some point in the film. The details were pretty interesting as it took a lot of details into account on how a real life experience would play out in such a sequence.I would take the rumor/report with a grain of salt. It supposedly comes from a guy going by the name G@BRIEL GR@Y...and we all remember him, don't we?
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with a blue alien with 3 titties
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not our eyeballs?
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I know I should be, but I couldn't care less. I am more looking forward to Terminator Salvation, which I hope, is the Terminator movie that James Cameron was too pussy to bring us!
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I heard that, and I think it's true, I'm think theres a small mention in the scriptment, from what I remember.
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Cameron is funny. Has a lot of faith in his movie too. Hopefully we can all agree with him about the moon..
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Gosh, rendering is so cliche these days.
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The only person that has seen nothing of this, and only seen coverage on this site? What is this Avatar thing?
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..I just checked out IMDB. Hmm. < That's about as excited as I'm getting.
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I haven't seen anyting either, except a pic of Cameron standing in some room with what looked to be a hospital bed or something. ALMOST fucked my eyeballs. Almost.
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Damn fucking straight, that was just a hoax anyway!
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is it akin to that?
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This movie is't basiclly like a ride at Universal Studios or something, thats my biggest fear about this project. Can anyone imagine how this will work when the BluRay-DVD versions are released?
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would have then, almost literally, fucked our eyeballs. HA!
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I'll set em up....you knock em down.
Battle Crest makes me think of Machine Man 2020. -
POWER TO TO BIG BLUE 3D DONG. All hail the BIG BLUE sub-scattered 3D DONG. All kneel before the 3D Dong of Avataration. Let the juices of Avatarian flow. Let us drench ourselves in AVATAR vindication. What is this Avatar thing? Avathong 3D Dong?
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Who are ragging on Jim about the Moon thing. Ha ha. Dickheads. Of course he meant it literally. Of course he is comparing his film to the moon landing. LMFAO! And the tall poppy syndrome begins...
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"it's just like chris klein's character in street fighter.
JIM OUT...slapping his celphone shut and posing with one leg up on a fence..."
No doubt it's that very personality type that makes him act like that, which also makes him the kind of guy who can get the kind of things done that he does. Most people who live at that level of achievement are fairly isufferable people, I think. Like my old boss, who used to say "outstanding!" every time someone asked him how he was doing. He was like Schwarzenegger and Tony Robbins in one person, that there boss ' mine. At the same job I had another boss who was like Gary Cole in Office Space. He hated that movie. I think he knew. -
"These trailers need to fuck the audiences eyeballs. Fuck them till they're blind! Then they won't be able to see how bad Avatar really is."
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If Avatar will fuck our eyeballs, will the trailers for Avatar buy our eyeballs dinner first?
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For a guy who:
1. Hasn't made a movie in 12 years.
2. Made "Titanic", which no matter how you slice it, how much money it made, and how many women loved it, was pretty laughable.
3. Is most recently responsible for "Dark Angel"...talk about unwatchable...
4. Made T2:3D Battle Across Time, also unwatchable (check the youtube video in case you haven't seen it since you were 10.
5. Hasn't made a great film since T2, almost 2 decades ago.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Aliens, Terminator, T2, and I like like the Abyss, even if it is just Aliens underwater.
I'll reserve judgment until he actually puts something out there. -
SF was miserably insufferable, yet you stir the pot like a cad. How dare you, sir.
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Nope. For a film that's supposed to be fucking our collective eyeballs later THIS YEAR, there doesn't seem to be much hype about it, aside from talkbackers and the occasional communique between Harry and Jim. I don't know anyone who's excited about it or has even heard of it for that matter. It'll be pretty cool to see what happens when a big-budget effects film comes out of nowhere presswise and does a bit of the old in-out in-out with our peepers.
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This kind of fucks people that come onto talkbacks and snidely point out that all of the stories on here are old. Harry wrote James fucking Cameron and got you some answers. Lay the fuck off him once in a while.
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Mar 11, 2009 5:18:24 PM CDT
hope it lives up to all the hype generated by Cameron fans
by silverglade
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"Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Aliens, Terminator, T2, and I like like the Abyss, even if it is just Aliens underwater."
Well, as long as you love only SOME of his films then... -
This moon thing out of proportion!
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Sorry, I meant to say.. this film, which I have not seen, nor heard much about, will suck. You know why? Because of my ignorant attitude and shitty opinion on everything.
To be honest, I would like to hunt down all the people who have strong opinions on things they know nothing about and rape their ignorant mouths with McG's cock.
Long live Bale, lighting will never be good without him!! -
You be the judge. What answers did Cameron pony up? Sub-surface scattering? I expect more improved insiders info. We need a MOLE inside.
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and don't forget his underwater expeditions and that he recently found THE FUCKIN TOMB OF CHRIST
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"I'm sure I'll reject a couple once I have the chance." "Back to the grind" - This guy haven't change in 15 years. Wait no, 30 years. Can't wait for the first trailer. Oh, and for his opinion on T4.
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Mar 11, 2009 5:21:58 PM CDT
This Just In: tig.Valen uses another man's cock in the absence o
by noncents
The rumor is that MCG's cock couldn't knock a half glass of water over if his life depended on it. Start spreading that rumor.
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I don't know why, every time I read your nickname, I feel like drinking orange juice. You know, the pure one packs. Like, the juice of the godesses.
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Actually it goes: 'Well the sandy vagina in my pants can see the future and says that (x) is going to suck'.
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I mean, seriously, how long since we had a sci-fi action film as engaging, heartfelt, exciting, intense, that just works as "Aliens"... whoever said his films are popcorn and simplistic seriously missed the point, they are magnificent storytelling... T2, The Abyss, Terminator, all rank as some of my favorite films...
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Mar 11, 2009 5:23:37 PM CDT
my eyeballs have already been fucked by watchmen
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
but avatar can repeatedly molest them too
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You left out True Lies you cine Retard!!
Now go back to sucking your daddys cock you fudge packer!!!!
Cameron will make our eyes BLEED!!! you baitches!! -
...I Feel Like Making Movies Is Too Hard. Then I Realise That My Father Sent Me Here To Suffer For Your Sins." Cameron's quote is cool. But it doesn't beat Wes Cravens latest, "I know how good my movies are, because poor negroes, the cutting edge, love them."
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Mar 11, 2009 5:25:11 PM CDT
Los Angeles Times also sets the record straight!
by standundermyumbrella
I guess the top brass at 20th Century Fox missed the jocular tone in my previous post about the blogosphere rumor going around about Jim Cameron rejecting a string of possible trailers for "Avatar," his long-awaited sci-fi thriller.
For the record guys, I was being sarcastic, and there was a reason I described the original MarketSaw blog post as "not exactly the kind of story you'd take to the bank," adding that it "was essentially a rumor-mill item."
Sometimes sarcasm doesn't come across in print, so let me be more plain: I thought it was intriguing -- coming on the heels of the blogosphere uproar over "Watchmen" -- that "Avatar" was already under the Internet microscope nine full months before its release. But did any of the posts persuade me that Jim Cameron had already rejected eight trailers and had started cutting his own? Not so much.
Just in case there was any doubt that the online uproar over the trailers was, shall we say, premature, Fox Co-Chairman Jim Gianopulos got on the phone to knock the rumors out of the park. "Jim Cameron has never seen any trailer cuts for the simple reason that they haven't gone to him yet," Gianopulos said, after admonishing me for running the speculation in the first place. "While the film's footage is essentially complete, key sequences haven't yet been rendered into the photo-realistic CG images that are now being worked on. This is the normal sequence of the production and is necessary in order to make a final trailer."
So there. "Avatar" fans can safely step away from the ledge. (OK, that's me being sarcastic again.) Once Cameron is finished laboring over the film's complicated technical components, he'll have something to show us. We're all on the edge of our seats, waiting with bated breath. (No, that wasn't sarcasm -- that was genuine enthusiasm.)
Patrick Goldstein -
...from directors like James Cameron all the time. It's pretty cool.
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...people like myself and Quentin Tarantino were just wondering...and are too lazy to do the research ourselves.
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So important. Not.
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No pulp in me hun, guzzle away.
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Respectfully, I'm not sure what your point is. Does it invalidate my opinion on Cameron if I don't love all of his films? I do only "love' some of his films. I don't think that makes me not a fan of Cameron. Do you honestly love Piranha 2? Battle Angel?
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I still can't quite shake the notion and feeling it will infact be Star Trek fucking Avatars eyeballs. Star Trek seems like it's turning out to be Big Titties, the suckable kind. Mmmm.
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Mar 11, 2009 5:37:25 PM CDT
Michael Bey and JJ Abrahms will be fucking our eyes out!!
by lockesbrokenleg
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"Do you honestly love Piranha 2? Battle Angel?"
Battle Angel??
Jesus!! Ghosty boy is a time traveler!!! Give us a review of the film he has yet to make!!
Tell us how shit is is pleasssssse!!!
Only time lords can give us advanced warning on films have only touch our eyeballs, not FUCK THEM BLIIIIIIND!! -
Captain James "Fuck your Gods rules" Kirk = Da Tits
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Cameron usually delivers. There's no reason to not think he will again.
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CAMERON, you are still a god up there with SPIELBERG. Mr. SPIELBERG still makes the big popcorn sequel a la CRYSTAL SKULL. Please don't let that ACADEMY AWARD you won from TITANIC go to your head and not make popcorn movies like (and more specifically) TRUE LIES 2! STALLONE and yourself know how to make BAD ASS SEQUELS! MAKE TRUE LIES 2 for SCHWARZENEGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!! You like a challenge and now you need to put a new spin on the spy genere where CASINO ROYALE is now king. You and Arnold last worked on the first TRUE LIES and T2-3D. "IT IS TIME" for another movie together!
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If Avatar were an episode of Trek, Captain James "Fuck your Gods rules" Kirk would bang Sigourney Weaver, and expose the Avatar as the fraud God it is. You....dont understand....we....are human.
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For the love of God!
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His Enterprise set would probably be able to fly for real.
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Mar 11, 2009 5:46:22 PM CDT
People like myself and Quentin Tarantino
by harryknowles_hemorrhoidslapband
would like for idiots like Flickapoo to shut his goddamn piehole! You only make fun of us because you're a jealous loser and dont have cool friends like James Cameron! I dont know about my eyeballs, but I let James fuck me in the ass all he wants!
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You know what, I don't think its going to suck. It'll be okay. It'll be good enough for a viewing. It might even have some cool effects that we haven't already seen, like, a hundred billion times since cgi was invented. But you know its going to be? The Abyss. Its going to have all of this CRAZY hype built up for it -- largely by you people because nobody else cares -- and its going to hit and its going to be... okay. Thats it. Like The Abyss was -- just okay, maybe even a little... boring? And, in a way, thats almost worse than it flat out sucking. 'Cause at least sucking would be memorable. Like an Epic Suck would be, at least, hilarious. This is just gonna be... there. And you know it in your hearts that I'm right...
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Mar 11, 2009 5:48:13 PM CDT
I'm still waiting for an original director with a captivating vi
by noncents
Oh, wait, that's me. Damn me. SCI-FI needs a champion. Cameron is the best we have, but he takes so much time. After Jurassic Park, Spielberg has never come back to the world. HE IS CAMP. He is B-movie in so many regards, but the money to shine up turds.
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When all the smoke is cleared from the summer, and we have time to absorb and reflect, in retrospect once the hype of films wears off - Wolverine, Transformers 2, GI Joe, whenever the hell Avatar comes out, I am making the prediction that of all these genre films, it will be Star Trek that stands out and people remember the most. Bold claim? Of course. But Boldy go my son!
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There's no need for me to post in this talkback when my point has already been articulated.
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Mar 11, 2009 5:51:18 PM CDT
CGI is getting tired, so now it goes back to storytelling and or
by noncents
Abyss was stimulating. Sorry, to melt your laser in your pants, but CGI really isn't going to be the separator anymore.
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Honestly Ill never understand the intense dislike you guys have for The Abyss. Its a great sci-fi film thats held up remarkebly well. Easily Camerons best film next to Aliens. I hope its The Abyss.
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Cameron has earned respect.
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Cutting through the BS is what this site is meant to do. It's not news, exactly, and not exciting, but it is valuable.
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Cutting through the BS is what this site is meant to do. It's not news, exactly, and not exciting, but it is valuable.
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Mar 11, 2009 5:57:23 PM CDT
Hey Mr. Cameron, how's that Jesus' Tomb thing working out?
by yackbacker
You feel like a lunar astronaut when you realized you were duped by a lightweight archaeologist? Never listen to Belloq, stick with Henry Jones, Jr. Trust me.
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Has James lost his touch?
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he did mean it literally - he said he knew how they (astronauts) felt when they stopped working and looked out windows and saw the moon - because he needed to step outside himself and his train of thought while working on just more fucking cgi fx bullshit - and remind himself how life affirming his new project is - its just a movie - give me a break
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You've just descibed Watchmen perfectly
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fuck anyone's eyeballs. Maybe a handjob at most.
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Love it. A masterpiece. It'd be nice to have The Abyss remastered in an 'anamorphic' transfer for DVD.
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in 3d with tv actors and maxim magazine cover girls
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Mar 11, 2009 6:08:47 PM CDT
AVATAR cost 300 MILLION (including marketing and advertising)!
by abking
This movie needs to make ALOT of cash and the first trailer needs to be better than both great SEX good CHINESE FOOD!
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I bet any of you stupid fucks who are dissing him would soon shut the fuck up. Shit even if it was just as a runner for the guys editing in the Avid or Final cut suit's. Or working with one of the dolly guys as an assistant. Jim if you read this and you need someone with some post production background or even on set please contact me for any of your future projects..I would gladly just get the coffee's for you guys just to be around the production and witness the magic that you guys do.
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When people are attacking James "God damn Aliens" Cameron for being nothing less than a master, I wonder which director is beyond reproach. If Cameron is so-so, what does that make hacks like Sommers, Bay and McG. Hell, Jesus Christ could down and fuck your eyeballs and you would think it is a gentle massage.
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damn
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Was that something to do with the James brother of Jesus thing? I'm more of a history nerd than a film nerd (which is why I liked Stargate the movie) but I've not seen this for real. I saw a documentary on James, and didnt buy any of it.
And didn't the studios turn down Avatar in 1999 because it would cost $400 million? Fuck, maybe we've already seen the best that CGI has to offer. -
Is a great film maker. Definitely. The Abyss was ground breaking because of it's effects, but is one of his worst. Aliens, and Terminator remain as his benchmarks.
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DID HE JUST COMPARE HIMSELF TO THE APOLLO ASTRONAUTS LANDING ON THE MOON? HE NEEDS TO REMOVE HIS HEAD FROM HIS ASS AND REALIZE THAT HE'S CREATING SCI-FI PORN FOR GEEKS
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...people like myself and Quentin Tarantino will grab your dangling hemorrhoid with our index finger and thumb...pull it out as far as it will go...and let it snap back vigorously like a junior-high bra strap. Pie hole indeed.
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A new movie from the Terminator and Aliens guy, with effects from Weta, in 3D? Why do you people frequent this site if this kind of movie is lame/boring/Zzzzzz to you? You all waiting for the next Jane Austen movie?
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W00t! There's a new movie?
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It's official! Thor might get Skarsård and Hartnett. Naptime at AICN? Or busy writing loveletters to McCameron? To the moooon I say!
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by "Siegfried & Roy: The Magic Box" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0182299/
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This film could be the most hyped disappointment since Episode 1. Let's hope not.
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Yep, cause we're all as plugged in as Harry and of course know everything he's talking about at all times. Hell, it's not his job to fill us in about everything he refers to with say a link, or maybe some, I don't know, information. Nope, just spout something off like we're in the room with him and know everything he knows.Sorry Harry, I'm just in a pissy mood.
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His best after Aliens and before T2
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I forgot about that whole "Jesus Tomb" thing MEGAN_FOXS_CUNT_JUICE, that actually makes me mildly pissed at Cameron now because that was fucking retarded
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After AVATAR lives up to the hype, wonder if Cameron will still do BATTLE ANGEL. Wonder what happened to FORBIDDEN PLANET remake from the WB and Joel Silver. Check out this old casting rumor for BATTLE ANGEL...http://www.filmjunk.com/2006/11/13/arnold-for-james-camerons-battle-angel/ ....Mr. Cameron, if you read this, that is perfect IDO casting!
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you are willing to get on your knees for a break.
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to walking on the moon. What an ass.
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I actually loved WATCHMEN, but I can understand how people would be disappointed. Especially after all that build up. Personally, I thought WATCHMEN succeeded by leaps and bounds, but I think many of the criticisms by those who hated it are valid. Anyways... I think AVATAR is going to be a million times more crushing. Like, THE PHANTOM MENACE crushing. Seems to me that people were, at best, guardedly optimistic about WATCHMEN, so the let down that some people felt couldn't have been that bad. But this? AVATAR? This has people who are RABID PSYCHOTIC FANS without even having ANY IDEA what its about, or what is going on, or what its gonna look like, or anything at all substantive about it except that the guy who directed it, made, like, two cool movies oh, about 20 or more years ago (I'm talking about T1 and ALIENS, of course), and now he's back to "fuck our eyeballs?" With what? Mediocrity? Great.I expect TONS OF RAGE and also mass suicides from the mom's basement set, forgettable entertainment for everyone else, and total indifference to the majority at large. Just... okay.
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for this movie for me....i know it's about aliens and that's it
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This is going to be all hype. Not looking forward to this at all.
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I'll be very happy. Of course, some of you think the only film worse than The Abyss was Terminator 2... but there's no reasoning with you.
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Really are the too most pompous and arrogant dickheads that I ever see come on to the talkbacks. Add they are like two predictable stuck records, always the same shit....I call them out to explain or quantify their opinions, and they never do, because they CANT!
They are like the fat loser comic book store guy in the simpsons. Walking fucking cliches. They just KNOW Avatar will suck, even though they seem to know nothing about it
I ask them questions about the details (which anyone can find if they do some research) and they have no answers.
Laserpants, this is to you again..Please tell me how the fuck Avatar will be like the Abyss??? Huh..How!!
They are not even remotely the same kind of movie you prick. Avatar is a full blown space epic with lots of action (think Aliens) with a lot of anime type ideas and concepts (mech armour, wierd creatures that can shoot their heads and then re-attach them, aliens that can link with lifeforms and use them like biological mech armour....) Things we have really never seen on film.
So you fucking know it all tool, im calling you out on your crap...explain what you are saying
And please dont use your useal circular logic, and passing your opinion off as fact. I know you have some big 'issue with Cameron, and Avatars failure is your most hopeful wish. But I want to hear fact from you -
I mean, c'mon. As good as landing on the moon? Seriously, hasn't everyone, at one time or another, worked on a project that they put so much of their blood, sweat and tears into that they thought they could do no wrong? I think Cameron's experiencing a bit of that right now.
I'm sure it will be a great show with incredible effects we've never seen before, but before we all start drinking the kool-aid, let's get a reality check here. It's just a movie. He's not curing cancer or HIV.
Now, something like THAT, would be approaching the significance of a moon touchdown. -
But alot of the fans do have an idea what to expect, some of us have the scriptment which can give you a general idea, and done a bit of scouring for any tidbits, and I think most of the "rabid fans" are purely trying to wind people up, like you with T2,( which reminds me get rid of the "moms basement" comeback, for a start household basements are extremely rare in my country.) My biggest fear for this movie is it will be more like a theme park ride, which is ok once or twice, but I am hoping for another sci-fi classic which would last for years, which brings up my fears for the home release.
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one big ass fuck for eyeballs.
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Just make a fucking movie and STFU. Lesser Directors have had fewer resources, money, time and technology at their disposal and yet they've made movies better then anything you've ever made. I think Cameron is suffering from KUBRICK SYNDROME. Perfectionism is the enemy of good.
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Did you even read what I wrote? Or couldn't you see past your hoagie detritus covered fatbody? I said it would be okay. Like THE ABYSS was (the comparison noted above in the post you apparently didn't read); you know, THE ABYSS, it was, just okay. At best. Okay. BUT, but, but, it arrived with a TON of hype that led everyone to suspect it was AMAZING, but then... it was... ... just... okay. And somehow, that was almost worse. That it was almost good. Further (and as I noted above), that this would actually be worse for raging psychotic fans like you, who have already decided AVATAR is the second cumming WITHOUT HAVING A FUCKING CLUE ABOUT IT other than the guy who made it made two cool movies about 20 some years ago. Sorta like... Oh! I know: George Lucas? Remember THE PHANTOM MENACE? Get ready for your second chance at experiencing the falling of thine crest as you collapse into that numb despair of being... average at best.(Btw, try not to embarrass yourself next time. Read my posts and THEN lash out with all that obese middle aged virgin rage you have pent up as you languish in mom's basement eternal. Thanks.)
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Once your eyes are done. Expecting anything else is insanity, why the hell would you post on AICN and not be excited about this one? It's a dead cert, I've never been so sure of a movie... I think he might have tapped into something extra special almost by mistake on this one (Like A New Hope)
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We KNOW WETA will deliver (and boy, looking at the effects work in the Trek and Terminator trailers, they've really got their fucking work cut out), but does Cameron still have it in him? The BEST movies are the ones you remember LINES from, not just effects shots. Everyone quotes lines from Aliens, e.g. 'game over, man! Game over! Game over!!' 'Stay frosty, people' etc. Can Cameron give us a script that will have us quoting Avatar lines in years to come? That is the true test, not what WETA are doing.
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I here you, africanguywhateveryournameisnotimportantenoughtoremember. I think the point of the talk backs are strictly to entertain our thoughts, rather than meaningful exchanges that create art. Most of these guys aren't creative and lack the skill sets to create anything, so be careful chastising them for generating self-importance. They will always be on the outside looking in, so give them a break.
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He's fucking my eye balls!!! And it hurts!!! Seroiously though I love cameron as a film maker but ill reserve judgement until I see a trailer. Just because its cameron doesn't mean its gold. After all lucas wrote and directed Star War (fuck I'm not calling it episode 4 there was no episode IV in the crawl in the original release anyway) and he gave us the special han shot first editions and episode 1. Cameron has been out of the game for over 10 years now
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This is movie is a mix between Pochahontas, Jurasic Park, and Aliens. Watching this in 3-D is going to be insane.
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Maybe I'm weird, but I don't get offended by hype; if the movie is disappointing, it's all going to come out in the wash anyway.
Cameron's a good craftsman, and whatever money he's given is always "up there on the screen" as the old saying goes; even if it isn't the game-changingly immersive experience he's aiming for, it sounds like it'll be an intriguing film. -
based on a rational dislike of his cinematic ouvre, however his commitment to the advancement of motion picture technology should NOT be in debate. Every film he has made since The Abyss has involved the creation of entirely new methods of filmmaking, be it digital FX, pushing practical set manipulation to it's limits or building equipment fit to shoot cinema grade images 2 miles under the Atlantic ocean. If he chooses to suggest that he's crossing new boundaries in film, the chances are he probably IS.Whether or not the application of all this will be everyones cup of tea is a different subject...
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FUCK SHIT, THERE ARE NO BASEMNETS IN MY COUNTRY, also sorry to dissapoint you, you little cretin, I am neither middle aged nor a virgin, and Im not fat either...nice try. You mentioned nothing about hype...i did read your post cuntface ok? you just kept comparing the two, which you can only do if the two are in any way similar. And yeah i guess if being passionate about film makes me a pyscho, then this talkback is full of Pyschos. But at least, unlike you, I dont spend my time on talkbacks to things that I have no interest in. Is your life really that sad and pathetic..seriously? Please Laserpants (becos I want to be just like you) tell me what films interest you so that I can come onto the talkback for that and try to convince everyone there of the folly of their ways.
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Feed me.
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My 'Ouvres' are half the 'e' of regular Oeuvres. Enjoy.
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thuis movie just to do so, they must really just be dead inside. I have no understanding how on a geek site anyone cant be interested in the pairing of Weta,Digital Domain, Stan Winston studios (who have admitted to doing practical effects on the film, and Stan himseelf has worked on the designs)and James Cameron. Nevermind how good the ideas or the imagery are in the scriptment, which for anyone that has read it would know (thus the reason for the excitement of some of us "psychos", as we do actual research to find out actual info as opposed to just being an ignorant tool with loudmouthed opinions).
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What a cool guy to address Harry...and all of us, directly through Harry! I wish James Cameron would join a few Talkbacks, live...so we can ask him questions, and debate, back and forth.
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considered by most conceptual artists to be the at least one of the best sci-fi/fantasy artists in the world today has worked on this film from the begining? Or that the aliens have been created by a very talented artist named Jordu Schell (do yourselves a favour and go visit his website to see his studios work)?
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Here's a quick litmus test for idiots: Do you think Jim Cameron was putting his film on the same level as the moon landings? If so, you have revealed yourself as a fucking boob and should commit suicide immediately.
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Mar 11, 2009 8:27:02 PM CDT
southafricanguy seems to have me confused for someone...
by themarinebiologist
I have never been called out in a TB and not responded to it. Sure, you can direct your sentiments at LaserPants because I cannot speak on his behalf, but I believe that you must have me mistaken for someone else. Never have any of my statements been construed as arrogant or pompous, nor has anyone taken any offense at anything I have said. Except... of course of the lovely little "Kate ate Aaron" incident of last month.
In order to consider your statement TRUE, you would have to go back and find a series instances where I have been an arrogant little shit.
You are a sad, pathetic individual who cannot tolerate differing views and must then attack others, criticizing them of ills that they themselves did not commit. Thank you, SIR, for proving to the TB community how much of an ass you are.
So, that is a big YES, I will call you out, southafricanguy: I want you to go back through previous talkbacks and find evidence of me being a pompous arrogant dickhead. I also want you to go back and cite posts of mine in which I use my "useal circular logic" to explain why I think that Avatar is way too overhyped here at AICN for its own good.
If you are unable to come up with this research, you will be judged accordingly. -
Oh....crap. Tig, I dismissed your timelord comment (funny as it was), until I reread my post. I meant "Dark Angel", NOT "Battle Angel". Touche'. I am fairly humbled. My bad. Dark Angel, however, is/was/always will be ASS.
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Mar 11, 2009 8:29:44 PM CDT
If Cameron pulls a CLINT EASTWOOD and make some films cost less!
by abking
Cameron has two 200 million budget sci-fi flicks with AVATAR & BATTLE ANGEL so he should scale back a little if he does TRUE LIES 2. Make that one cost 70 million and try to be like CLINT EASTWOOD and work fast. Jim could film TRUE LIES 2 when Arnie is out of office...film it summer 2011 for 2012 summer. Heck, maybe Cameron can give it to Schwarzenegger to direct (like Sly does) and just produce it. TRUE LIES 2 is a sure fire hit like INDIANA JONES 4. It's a 4 quadrum event movie and would clean up at the box-office. Maybe even more than the risky AVATAR. Jim, make a cost contious TRUE LIES 2.
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Well put.
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*series OF instances
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i do not think there are any gaurantees with this movie, there is always the possibilty of Cameron pulling a 'phantom menace'. And it could end up being a huge disaster. Im excited because of all the actual fact that is known, as opposed to all that we dont know. And im prepared to give Cameron the benefit of the doubt because of his track record.
You can bash Titanic all you want (and let me be clear that it is my least favourite Cameron movie) but Cameron succeeded against all odds, everyone thought he was crazy then and that it would be his waterworld. And what happened? He did the impossible..he created a modern day gone with the wind (im talking about its bo and pop culture impact) So if there is anyone that I think has shot at risking this much money and clout on such a risky hard edged sci-fi (this is no kiddified or fantasy type sci-fi ala star wars) movie with unproven technology, its probably this guy -
Why do people insist on using this in the middle of bickering on message boards? Do they not know it makes them sound less like continental congressmen and more like jackasses? Anyone, I do love Cameron's tone in these emails. He sounds far less up his own asshole than the majority of Hollywood types whose opinions you read.
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Mar 11, 2009 8:33:28 PM CDT
southafricanguy should really stop posting my name...
by themarinebiologist
... until he answers my post.
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I did in fact mistake you for someone else, and I do apologize for directing that outburst at you. It really should have only been directed at that other guy
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But... I am a jackass.
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Mar 11, 2009 8:35:23 PM CDT
MEGAN_FOXS_CUNT_JUICE & DANNY_GLOVER'S_DICKBLOOD should write a
by jackson healy
What do you guys think? -
Mar 11, 2009 8:37:37 PM CDT
Now, because it was clear that my opinion was asked...
by themarinebiologist
I honestly do think that everything Cameron's doing in AVATAR should be momentous for the Science Fiction genre. But, my only criticism so far is that people are hyping this up to be the second coming, and that it isn't going to be as accessible by the mainstream audiences as, say, Sherlock Holmes starring RDJ. That has always been my opinion in the matter, take it or leave it.
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in yout opinions. And I actually agree with you that it is in these talkbacks where it is insanely overhyped. The whole eyeball fucking thing *sigh* is just really silly.
And its not other people's opinions I have any problem with marinebiologist, in fact especially if they are different. But when opinions seem to be based on ignorance or stupidity (as in they ignore fact or past history) or someone passes their opinion off as fact (a coomon practice here im sure you will agree) then I feel a need to call them out on it. Sorry marinebiologist, its just my pet peeve. I just like to discuss film, but you know..intelligently, which just really is nt possible on these talkbacks sometimes -
But might I remind you that your opinion of me a few short minutes ago was based on ignorance and stupidity.
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he was comparing the technology they were working with, not his film, to the lunar landing.
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I mean has anyone even asked Jim if he's making a movie? Would probably get the same answer.
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marinebiologist and im owning up to it. I will admit when I have made a mistake and/or wronged someone
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Mar 11, 2009 8:54:38 PM CDT
Only Jim Cameron would compare his movie to the moon landing!
by the reluctant austinite
I love Cameron! That letter sent me into spasms of uncontrollable laughter. Talk about hype! Now people are going to be disappointed if his film doesn't trigger the second coming of Christ! Maybe he should have set the release date for Jan. 1, 2012 to take advantage of the Apocaylpse!
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I've always loved Cameron's ambition, his hands-on in every aspect of production and his technological invention. And, lastly, his sense of humor.
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please! I can't wait to see that movie!!
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they all have blue penises
even the females
Also their knees bend backwards ala Xavier: Renegade Angel -
on Sherlock holmes and Avatar, i think what you say is interesting, and possibly true. However I would argue that there is a flip side to that viewpoint. How many holmes movies have been made (not to count numerous tv shows) This holmes is also just yet another in the comtinuous onslaught of sequals/prequals/reboots/reimaginings/remakes/adaptations etc...And we all know its becos of Hollywood playing it so damn safe and only wanting to spend money on "name brands".
But something that is truly fresh and original could really appeal to a mainstream audiance that is perhaps getting sick of the same ol same ol. With great risk can come great reward. Remember that in the late seventies Star Wars was very against the grain and risky at the time. What do you think marinebiologist? -
Sorry about the basements. Mom's outhouse then? *Shrugs* Either way, you seem WAAAAAAAAY over-involved with this movie. Like, to a schizophrenic degree. I didn't even say that it was gonna suck and you jumped on me like, well, like some obese virgin who lives in mom's basem-er, that is, outhouse, or chicken coop, or, damp hole in the ground, or wherever it is you plop your fat ass down in as your pudgy fingers thwack away on the keyboard typing all manner of misplaced invectives...
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Will be the final diagnosis for Avatar by a team of board certified psychiatrists after moviegoers the world wide are fucked in the eyeballs.
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...fucking your eyeballs from orbit.
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Mar 11, 2009 9:29:47 PM CDT
UH...Laserpants,fuck off ok? I have better thing to do than
by southafricanguy
talk to a complete mron like you. If it makes you happy to think im some fat dude living at home with my mom, then go for it dude. you seem to be happy just believing whatever you want anyway.
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We all know that no matter WHAT this movie looks like ... the response the day the first trailer is posted will be this: Post #1: FIRST! Post #2: Yawn. Post #3: Meh. And the vast majority of the responses for this project will be "Oh. It's an ecological disaster movie with cartoon animals? Riiiiight." Mark the word of Spymunk.
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,repeatedly i may add, with something approaching intelligent conversation.
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as overzealous, was nt really my intention. But then why do you spend time on a talkback concerning something you clearly have no interest in? And have already deceided you wont like? If I dont like something I simply ignore it and concentrate on the things that I do like.
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Finally. Now he will admit that Avatard is actually set in a gay disco. All teh Cameron fanbois will be singing it's raining men and wearing blue strap on dongs like Dr. Fire Island in The Watchmen.
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When I saw WATCHMEN in Imax, the manager came in and told us about how IMAX is the only way to see this thing. Before exiting, he mentioned three upcoming movies that were coming out in IMAX.
1. Transformers 2: The guys went nuts
2. Harry Potter 6: Some guys, but the majority of the girls went crazy,
3. Avatar: I swear to God, I was the only one who cheered for that. I had to explain to my friends what the project is.
It made me feel great about knowing that this film is going to knock everyone's socks off when it comes out in December. -
You spit or swallow?
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Yeah, its actually quite cool how secret it is and how little anyone really knows about it. I love that Cameron's been able to keep it all so secret.
Its really like how it used to be, when something really big (im talking scale of production) can just come out of no where and blow audiances away. Should be a lot of fun when it comes out at the end of the year -
is a masterpiece.
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someone had to say it
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I actually prefer the directors cut of the abyss, I feel the theatrical cut suffered from losing those scenes. I just think some things made more sense. But when it comes to Aliens I greatly prefer the theatrical cut. I think too much is revealed before riply andn the marines get there in the directors cut, that it diminishes the suspense imho.
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Is that James Cameron is still in love with himself. HAHAHAHAHA! ;)
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For all the love this movie gets when people haven't even seen any pics or anything about it (and if you call pics of the movie "set" revealing, im gonna nut in ur face with me h8 boner). Don't get me wrong I love t2, true lies, aliens and was a little bit entertained by titanic, but the story for avatar sounds meh yet there's all this talk about f*&%d eye balls when this could go either way. The new technology cameron is pioneering for this flick sounds cool, but I thought the same thing about all the supposed technological advancements matrix 2 & 3 were supposed to have, and we all know how that ended up. At least Battle Angel has an interesting story imho. I think this flick will go down ultimately towards most moviegoers as a)hey jim's back but it's the cinematic equivalent of guns n' roses chinese democracy! And b) hey it's the guy from t4 sam worthington and now he's in a flick with the original terminator creator jim cameron! Prove me wrong jim
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Thanks for the news, Jim! I'm there opening night.
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How much do you know about the story dude. Have you ever read the old scriptment (even though its out of date now)? I agree with you that the over-hyping is ridiculous considering that we have seen nothing concrete. But for those that have scoured the internet for every little tidbit, there are a variety of reasons to be quite excited
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so it does nt sound interesting to me, and since its so far away from being made i have not gone out of my way to find info on BAA. If you want to enlighten me on BAA i can try to explain to you why Avatar just might turn out to be amazing.
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art that was shown at marketsaw.com? It looked quite cool though
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This is a man who has made The Terminator(a masterpiece). Aliens is the greatest sequel ever. The theatrical cut of The Abyss was disappointing but not horribly so. The director's cut, however, is a masterpiece. T2 is tremendous with some of the best set pieces ever put on film. True Lies is not perfect but it is the best "Bond" film of the 90's. Everybody wants to pick on Titanic because it was too popular and girls loved it. Yet, I feel it is the best disaster movie ever made. Lesser directors like Bay, have tried the same thing and have failed miserably. Okay, Pirahna 2 is crap, but can you really count it. Dark Angel would have, probably, made a better movie than an episodic tv show. Cameron's scriptwriting can be pedestrian and he likes to go for the big cheap lines like "Game Over", "Hasta la Vista" and "King of the World", but it is still better than Lucas' stuff.
Avatar is a strange concept and may go over the general public's head, but until Jim makes a truly bad movie, he has the benefit of the doubt. -
Anyone who hasn't read the original 9 graphic novels is missing one of the best sci-fi stories *ever*.
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Not getting truly excited until I see some footage, Jim.
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Could not agree more with you dude. You just summed that up perfectly re your description of all his films. And i agree that his writing can be a pedestrian (though his structure is always 100% perfect). So thats why I was so happy to find out (Moriarty spilled the beans on this at Hitfix)that Laeta Kalogordis has written the script for Avatar with Cameron. I think he works best when he has someone to bounce off of. The terminator movies were written with william wisher and Strange days was written with Jay cocks. And I really think those scripts benefitted from it. Though he wrote Aliens by himself so what the hell do I know...
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Mar 12, 2009 12:28:49 AM CDT
but lol imagin78...too true at least he is miles better than
by southafricanguy
Lucas, geez I think you would be hard pressed to name a worst screen writer than Lucas (great producer and ideas man though).
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Godfather 2 was the greatest sequel ever. Now you know.
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ok..how about we say its the greatest sci-fi sequal?
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yep that equals the moon landing, I will beat this suck when it finally surfaces.
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Just give us a taste of your Weta stuff. One harmless clip. Nothing else. Just one clip.
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http://tinyurl.com/dk8r4a
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all the wonderful 3D CGI in the world doesn't fix scripts or acting...George Lucas right? So let's just see...Cameron has made his share of shit...Sorry but Titanic was a melodramatic turd.
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...comes the next step in TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION!A V A T A R - FUCKING YOUR EYEBALLS IN 2009.nothing else matters
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Tails. Cameron just mailed Harry about tails. It will be Catwoman done better, but it will be camp nonetheless. No one today want to see tails, or cat like sci-fi characters. We want Vasquez kicking Aliens asses, and Hudson screaming "come and get me motherfuckers !". I say T4 is going to top Avatar in every way, and fan editors will cut Avatar down to only the human elements once it's out on DVD.
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also don't sound as cool as ALIENS. or TERMINATOR. I mean Na'vi sound like something out of Wayne's World. fail.
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Insiders on the film say Avatar will not be finished this year. Also, the budget will probably be 300 million, BEFORE advertising.
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I want my eyes fucked now!
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Mar 12, 2009 3:27:30 AM CDT
Most of the love for this film comes from the script itself...
by mr. moe
The script/treatment has been online for years, and it's pretty damn awesome.
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What is it about the scriptment that you specifically like dude? I like the floating mountains concept, the wierd creatures like the slinger and manticore, and the mech armour used by the SECFOR Troops sounds pretty sweet. Oh..and the Na'vi linking to the various Pandoran creatures and controlling them like biological mech armour is such a cool concept.
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As T2 is to fried shit noodles.
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He wasn't comparing the film with landing on the moon. Fuck sake. He also wasn't suggesting he was 'king of the world' at the oscars, merely suggesting the same sense of elation the characters felt at that point in the film.
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nope. that would be ESB. I like Aliens but lets not go overboard with it.
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December 18 2009
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2010?
I love the eyeballs thing, looking forward to the photoshopped version of the poster with the 'true' tagline -
I really can feel his love for this movie reading the lines. I will fly to London for the premiere of Avatar. Can't wait!
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Quite an ego.
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My interest is piqued, but I trust, Mr Cameron, good sir, that the cinematic enterprise in question will also besport lashings of the old... ultraviolence..?
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Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid... well, not that afraid - it's probably a PG13
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God damn you geeks are annoying.
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Mar 12, 2009 7:07:04 AM CDT
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by bill brasky
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I guess that depends on your view of what constitutes sci-fi and what you think makes a great sequal. One could argue that Star Wars is nt really sci-fi, since its really more fantasy. While Aliens is much closer to actually being Sci-fi, therefore I would stand by the same statement.
But lost jav,lets for arguments sake say that both are unquestionably sci-fi, I personally choose Aliens. Now that being said its so fucking close is nt it? its like comparing good fucking with a great blow job, they are both just really awsome.
*ahem*, anyway..For me esb is different by having a darker tone, but its still very much the same type of movie (nothing at all wrong with that) but aliens takes the same character and universe, but is a completely different movie, different tone and genre even, while greatly expanding the universe in which alien took place (esb also expanded its pre-established universe, but less so imho). -
i think you are right it will most likely be pg13, especially as its obviously a damn expensive movie, and we all know its just not cost effective to make such expensive tent pole movies for the studios R rated.
That being said, the scriptment is fairly violent and Cameron gets around the rating by having said violence occur with various alien creatures getting blown to pieces (remembe rthe mpaa does nt give a shit about violence towards aliens, robots, monsters etc..)and mech armour getting fucked up. So im guessing that is how Cameron will get a pg13 rating while still allowing the movie to have some balls. -
You know Cameron will keep tweeking it and fucking with it until at least 2011. Maybe 2012.
Don't be too surprised if we see the London Olympics before anyone sees Avatar -
Mar 12, 2009 7:17:02 AM CDT
He'll release a statement soon about how theaters aren't ready
by codereduk
to show his new style of movie.
Maybe he has a point, who knows. -
I do seem to remember some of the humans getting their asses handed back to them as hamburger by the planet's creatures, in the scriptment. Maybe that's just my rose tinted glasses, though.
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and decided that was good enough now China is going to kick our ass and go to Mars.
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I'll bet you cretinous tools who are yelling about how Cameron is "comparing his work to the Apollo missions" are the same morons who believed that when he shouted "I'm king of the world!!" at the oscars, that he actually thought he WAS king of the world rather than exclaiming how exuberant he felt by quoting DiCaprio's character FROM THE VERY SAME FUCKING MOVIE THAT WON THAT YEAR.
I know you think we've got something good going on here, a "hold" on him which we can use to slam Cameron from now until Christmas, but we actually don't. What we DO have, however, is indelible proof -- through the miracle of un-editable talkback -- that you are the drooling wielders of cheap and useless tactics which expose you as complete asshats and ball-lickers.
Congratulations, you win the fail. -
actually you are right, I read the scriptment again not that long ago (read it once yearsa ago when it seemed to be one of those movies that would just never get made) and a number of humans do indeed get their asses handed to them in a violent manner. But who can say for sure as the scriptment is quite out of date now, and Cameron will have changed a lot I guess, also considering that the script has been written with another writer (so new ideas brought to the table)
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Relax my friend, its not worth it..really. I got peed off just like you and ended up getting into a stupid argument with another talkbacker earlier. And i just ended up making myself look like an ass.
You just have to accept that many of the people that coe to these talkbacks have agendas, and they have already deceided their pinion on movies or directors way before the fact. So any little thing, wether true or not, is used by them as ammunition/proof of their opinions that they like to pass off as fact.
If you can just acceppt that you will be able to much better ignore half the stupid shit that gets said here -
I liked that Avatar handled the same ideas as Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, but Avatar handled those ideas the right way, and delivered a great story. Avatar is kind of like a Hayao Miyazaki sci-fi story.
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I actually think one of the clever things that Cameron has done with Avatar is that since so many of the characters are not human, and most of the action involves alien creatures and gunships and mech armour, I think Cameron will be able to make it quite violent for a pg13 movie.
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Could not agree more with you dude. It feels exactly like a Miyazaki sci-fi story. And thats why some of us are so excited about it. It has the same insane level of great ideas and cool imagery. Coupled with great action, and good subtext that has meaning.
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dont you think there is quite a strong john carter of mars vibe to it? Also really reminds me of Jim Shooters 'warriors of plasm' comic. Back when he had Defiant.
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Nah, ...he's too busy.
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movie, its such a great mix of things from so many different sources, put together in an interesting and new way. My worry is wether Weta and Digital Domain can pull off genuinely photo realistic effects.And do so with the imagery Cameron describes in the scriptment. Because I think a big part of this movie working will depend on it.
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Mar 12, 2009 8:07:58 AM CDT
AVATAR Will Be Dry Humping Your Leg As Drift Off To Sleep!
by laserpants
Much more likely. You'll wake up with a sticky mess on your leg and an overwhelming sense of existential despair and disappointment. Feel free to leave your eye condoms at home. You aren't going to need them.
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I love how enthusiastic and into it James Cameron seems to be. A very good sign that this may just live up to our expectations. Cannot wait! Oh and i'm pretty impressed that Harry could email James Cameran ... damn!
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But I'm not expecting complete photo-realistic imagery from this movie. There is just too much in the script that it's hard for me to imagine it all being 100% flawless. I'm sure it will be better than most, and at worst I see it at least being on par with LOTR.
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I've never read John Carter of Mars, but I know the story and I can see the similarities to it.
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Mar 12, 2009 8:20:58 AM CDT
*SIGH* ...Apparantly the obnoxious 10 year old has returned
by southafricanguy
to share his insightful and witty comments with us all. Shhh...adults are talking, ok?
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Yeah i think you are right as far as the cgi goes. And come to think of it there is a strong Dune element to it too. Since Pandora has very rare and valuable substances that everyone wants.
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many of the same story elements as final fantasy, but unfortunatly that movie has a really weak script, they completely focused on pushing the animation and seemed to forget about everything else. Thats what im hoping does nt happen here. Because we all know that all the amazing effects and 3d in the world wont make a damn difference if people are nt engaged by the characters, story, and dialouge.
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First, I want to say great job! Second, can you ask Jim Cameron for an exclusive official picture from the movie? I'm sure he wouldn't have problem emailing you one, but you just have to ask Harry! AICN can be first, in debuting something from Avatar! Have no doubt, this will be the single most importnat film of our lives. Just ask Harry! Trust me, he will email you a picture!
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no mention if it will bring kitt back to action.
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KING OF THE WORLD.
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The scriptment proved that the story is there, so I don't think we have to worry about the film focusing entirely on effects. Once I started reading it I couldn't put it down.
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Are you enjoying the obesity, diabetes, and eternal virginity? There, there. There, there.
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insect. oh well its nothing of importance.
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That is the sound of flies on shit; shit, in this case being AVATAR: Dry Humping Your Leg As You Drift Off To Sleep!
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So you loved Watchmen but thought The Abyss was merely ok? Moron.
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Anything he shoots is golden right? Then any and every trailer should fuck all our eyeballs. I'm sensing an Episode 1 vibe with Avatar where they're so caught up in fx that the actual acting will be shit and therefor, a crappy movie.
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Overacting to the fucking hilt, poorly edited, and they chose one of the weaker of the 12 endings they filmed. This movie was a production nightmare that came off as half-baked and onlt qualifies as a guilty pleasure at best, in my opinion. I'm not a Cameron hater by nature...I know the guy's a fucking douche according to some of the actors (most notably Ed Harris) who have worked with him. But some of his stuff's been fine. But The Abyss? Put me down as one who felt that sucked bobby jindal's browneye.
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I think the whole underwater alien thing is stupid but it was a lot better then Sphere.
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Or just a difference in opinion? I leave it up to you to decide.
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STFU no one asked for your 'review'
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around here if this movie sucks. Seriously, you fuckers have gotten yourselves too worked up over something you have seen NOTHING about. Yeah, James Cameron has done some great movies, but he also brought us Titanic. I fucking HATE that movie. I wanted Rose to die. I wanted Billy Zane to shoot Jack and Rose and be done with it.
How many of you will actually be able to admit it to yourselves if this movie sucks. Will you come to grips with it and realize that your years of masturbating to everything Cameron was wasted? I think most of you will try to defend it as something deeper and meaningful and mindfuck yourselves into believing it will be a good movie. It may be, but I have seen absolutely nothing that leads me one way or the other. The reason I may hate it is all of the "Eyeball Fucking" that is supposedly will be doing in 2009. -
Definitely. Okay, who wants to start putting money down on the fact that Avatar will be pushed back to a 2010 release?
Cameron's a perfectionist and he won't let this one out of the cutting room until every effects shot is precision perfect. You can take that to the bank.
So my call is, sometime around the end of August, just as the studios are putting up their teaser posters and standees, Cameron will fuck them all over with a "it's not quite there yet" kind of statement, and we'll all be waiting until May 2010 to get our eyeballs fucked.
This isn't Cameron hating. I love the guy's whole body of work. It's just a fact. He did it with Titanic. Any takers? -
Titanic was nothing great and I'll nevere see it again, but it was hardly headfuckingly awful. Sounds like you've got some issues, mate.
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He's not 32 anymore, and he's got a stack of other movies he wants to get going on as soon as. Here's hoping that that diving woman yawnfest will now be the only Cameron pic to get perpetually shitrolled
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I just hated it. The best parts were the actual ship going down. The visuals were awesome, but the story sucked ass. I just can't get how that movie made the amount of money it did. I am sure that means that I am probably in the minority, and most think it is ok to great, but I would rather watch Muppets take Manhattan instead. I would rather watch Beautician and the Beast. My opinion, and my opinion only. I just think many of you (not sure if you personally are one) have blown Avatar way out of proportion and are setting yourselves up for major disappointment. This movie has to change cinema now or it is a failure. That is how overblown it has become around here.
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moon.
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it does about the film.
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Well, considering how a number of directors (Sodebergh, Boyle, Favreau, etc.) and industry elites that have seen bits of AVATAR and declared it as a "game changer", it's extremely possible that we may in for something really cool and unique.As for AVATAR being "blown out of proportion", I don't think we've seen anything yet. The REAL hype for this movie hasn't even started. And there certainly hasn't been anything warranting the present level of negativity regarding the so-called "hype" being tossed around on this site.I know that some people sport eternal hate-boners for certain directors and so forth but it's kind of strange. Why anyone would want AVATAR to fail is beyond me.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't want it to fail. I hope it's good. Camerson did give me T1 (and I for one like that better than T2, but that is just me) and Aliens, which is one of the greatest sci-fi movies made. But I rememeber Speilberg gushing over Episode I before the release, and look how that turned out. Cameron has been out of the game for a LONG time. That could either be a good thing, or a bad thing. We'll see. Personally, I think Terminator Salvation is the movie we are going to look back on in 2009 and think, wow, why the hell didn't we get that earlier. Of course my hyped up expectations for that movie may lead me to a depressed state if it doesn't live up.
By the way, how the hell do you seperate paragraphs on this talkbalk? I keep trying, but it lumps everything together. -
If you cannot extrapolate that Cameron's Avatar will not be at the very least a quality piece of work based on the classic Terminator films, True Lies and Titanic alone...then you are either
A) A troll
B) Laserpants
C) Going to eat your words bigtime when this thing is eventually released.
Hard to resist typing "fucking your eyeballs" in place of "released" just to piss you clowns off. -
You really think that "Terminator Salvation is the movie we are going to look back on in 2009 and think, wow, why the hell didn't we get that earlier."?!?Wtf did *you* smoke, man? Oh andparagraphsare donelike this
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Ok, I get that I may have pissed off some of the Cameron sack lickers in here, but who wouldn't have said the same thing about Lucas prior to Episode I? This was the guy that gave us Star Wars and Indiana Jones, so he knows what he is doing. Look foward to the movie, that is fine, but it is probably not the second coming of Christ.
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Do (back arrow)p(forward arrow) to start each each paragraph.
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Cameron vs. McG.Eyemelting CGI vs. been-there-done-that Tranforminators.Plus, T4 will be FUCKING PG-13. That's all I need to know.
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What I mean by that is the movie that Cameron should have made after T2. The future war. Done correctly, it will be fucking awesome. Like I stated earlier, my opinion, and my opinion only. Sorry if my opinion causes your Avatar induced bonor to shrink even one millimeter.
AND THIS SENTENCE WAS DONE AS A DIFFERENT PARAGRAPH AND IT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. MAYBE I AM JUST TALKBACK RETARDED. -
Is that a fact now? Cuz that's a fucking deal breaker...
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STOP comparing Cameron and Lucas! The former is a visionary movie god, while the other is just a one-trick pony.
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the quick brown fox
jumped over the
lazy dog -
Thanks for the information.
hey it fucking works.
I am not worried about PG-13. Would I like it to be R, yeah. But it is not deal breaker. So I don't get blood and tits. As long as the story is good, then ok. Like I said, I am most likely going to be highly dissapointed after T4, because of the hype I have built in my own mind, but that's just me. -
that could be affirmative...
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I've read an article about T4 in the UK edition of EMPIRE, including an interview with McG. He hasn't shot the flick with an R-rating in mind. Make of that what you want.Of course, there's the possibility do digitally add some blood here and there, but that's not what would make it the R-rated future war movie that I want.I want TOTAL FUCKING R-RATED DESTRUCTION!
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or if they pussy out with that 'its in the internet'! bollocks...
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Chances are, since Watchmen's now offcially a financial 'fail', both T4 and Avatar are now going to be fucking 'U's. As in, suitable for pretty much nobody...
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T4 wants to be a movie about mankinds death and destruction.Simply compare the future war scenes of T2 and T3. The former still look totally fucking awesome, gritty and violent whereas the T3 scenes look totally fucking lame - like a PG-13 war action scene. I know T3 was rated R - but it didn't felt like that. That's exactly what I fear about T4.
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Avatar looms large
Cameron emails Harry
Trolls fear eyeball fuck -
T3 was rated '12' - I'm pretty sure it was the same version as the US.
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Mar 12, 2009 10:58:53 AM CDT
Err...Ghostball, WATCHMEN is not a "financial fail".
by motoko kusanagi
Not at all, especially when you consider that it is rated R.
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It really was. It was okay. At best. AVATAR will be the same. It will be okay. At best. The thing with Cameron is that, although he champions and pushes through new film technologies (which is cool), he doesn't really create interesting or engaging stories. Sure, Terminator was great, ALIENS was (and is) AMAZING, but everything else he's done has been mediocre at best.A technological demo / workout does not a good film make. Of course, I would love nothing better than to be proven wrong on this. I would LOVE it if AVATAR really does fuck everyone in the eyeballs. But, odds are, it won't. Odds are, it will be... okay. Just like THE ABYSS -- a really okay movie. But just... okay.
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WB was apparently banking on an opening weekend of no less than 70 mil, to be able to forecast the overall 500 box office needed to go into profit. I don't know for sure whether expected DVD sales are related to this.
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You may be right on that. Has PG-13 been confirmed? Sorry if I pissed some people off in regards to Avatar. Like I said, I hope it's good, and I know I will be watching it in the theater. Hopefully this is not the year of the bomb.
I liked Watchmen, but depending on next weeks numbers, it could turn out to be a financial dud.
Wolverine. Again, I will see it, and hope it is good (gotta be better than X-Men 3, right?), but Fox has a way of fucking up everyting.
Star Trek. This is do or die for the franchise.
T4. God I hope McG gets it right. Please for the love of god get it right!
Avatar, if it only makes sweet love to my eyeballs, instead of a hardcore gangbang skullfuck, I will be dissapointed.
Am I forgetting anyting? -
Well, Terrance Malick was out of the game a LONG time too and he's still adored regardless.Interesting that you bring up SW:E1 and T4. I think we all got stoked after seeing the first trailer for TPM. And at that time, no one would have questioned Spielberg's glowing praise. And yet, it almost feels like the emperor no longer has clothes when it comes to that franchise...and Spielberg's stamp of approval doesn't seem to carry the weight it once had.As for T4, it wasn't all that long ago that folks on this site were proclaiming McG as a low-rent Michael Bay. No matter how cool and badass his CGI and actions shots looked, no on was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. Now, after the latest (admittedly impressive) T4 trailer, I wonder if people aren't setting themselves up for yet another TPM-type situation. We'll see.
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I just heard Snyder reached 3D perfection on dong rendering, so he will be helping Cameron on avatar with that. So our eyeballs will literally be fucked by amazing beautiful dongs.
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Its not making TDK numbers, but its doing REALLY well for a 3 hour long rated-R movie based on a comic book that only a relatively small number of people know about. This weekend will drop off, but I think it will still do solid business. Then, the Extended Directors Cut dvd will drop, raking in more millions. Its not a blockbuster, but its a VERY successful cult hit.
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I should fucking hope it'll be better than the Abyss: Perpetual hand-wringing, wife-resucitating and shitloads of water, Vs mindbendingly futuristic military hardware, alien environments and the most dangerous non-sentient creatures in the universe all on one planet? The concept for Avatar hardly screams epicfail...
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I am most likely setting myself up for another TPM situation. Sigh.
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You prick!
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Happy to oblige.
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If its good. But I have a strong suspicion that it won't be. I'm thinking THE PHANTOM MENACE.
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Ever see the DVD Special Features on the making of Star Wars and how god awful it was until they edited it so razor sharp? Lots of unbelievably bad extra, plodding dialogue. Having that editor take the helm and having John Williams on board really elevated that film.
It's amazing to think of all of the merely 'decent' movies out there that really could be elevated to the level of greatness with just a few elements. Editing is key. -
that Laserpants and his clones (clowns??) will be a whiney douche loser for the rest of his pitiful life
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Let's just hope Cameron hasn't produced/adopted a bunch of kids since he wrote the orginal Avatar scriptment, otherwise he'll have changed the story into a lecture on the preciousness of life, with a generous dollop of environmental fingerwagging just to be sure (the scriptment was already dangerously bordering the latter to begin with).
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Lucas needs more than a good editor. He needs a good writer and director as well. He can write a basic framework for a story (at least he used to be able to; see: KOTCS). Fuck me if I didn't think the emporeror was talking about the Jedi when he said Wipe them out. All of them. It is sad that most of the fanboys could have made better prequels, which shouldn't have been made at all. The only one worth rewatching is EPIII, and that is because of the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Hayden and Ewan really looked like they went all out.
Anyway, hopefully we will get a trailer for Avatar soon, and I can start to get excited. Until I see something, it is just another movie to me. -
SOLARIS.
Someone tell me it's good. And I'll blow you away with my mini-gun to kindgom gone.
Avatar will be the HAIR of sci-fi, when all we expect is ALIENS IN 3D. Which it won't be. -
1. The Abyss
2. Hunt For Red October
3 Finding Nemo
4. Das Boot
5. (tie) Deep Blue Sea/ Sphere -
So I don't know how I will do in Avatar.
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Solaris wasn't all that bad. I am in for some existential hooey at times.
If Avatar is Hair, bring on the big, blue 3-D boobies! -
will there really be ebough theatres to showcase that part of the film?
Dreamworks and Katzenberg have already scaled back their more ambitious 5,000 3D screen plan because there simply arent enough screens yet. -
Mar 12, 2009 12:01:47 PM CDT
The moral of the story is DON'T READ IDIOTIC ONLIE RUMOURS
by proman1984
And Soderbergh's Solaris was crap.
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I just love how you guys can have huge flame wars about if a movie will suck or not without even seeing it. And then after the movie has been released you will argue forever on why the other person should love or hate that particular movie.... Let's try something new. Let's wait for the movie, watch it, make up our own minds and then respect the other persons view, hate or love. LOL, I'm so naive.. Also, who will entertain me if that happened??? So please, FLAME ON!
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This place would get boring fast if that happened. Personnaly, as a long time lurker, and new talkbacker, I have loved reading the flame wars over the years. Keeps me from hanging myself in my cube at work.
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http://tinyurl.com/cl96ke
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Without long pointless flame wars, most of these talkbacks would only be a few lines long- I started reading the talkbalks b/c of the fairly creative and mildly amusing banter. Much higher quality then the wars that errupt on mainstream news sites. Keep it up everyone
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He is simply saying that stepping on the moon to an astronaut is like seeing this ground breaking footage for the first time to a film maker. It's the first of its kind.
JC is trying to present an alien world, with a cool story, all wrapped in a HD digital 3D environment, pushing film making to the edge using new techniques of photo-realistic performance capture.
And this is just another movie? Yeah ok, WTF! Go suck off your dad, and it wouldn't hurt to shave your mom's back.
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You stupid, cross-eyed retarded fucks. I love the talkbacks!
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(Awesome name btw)No, I realize that. But I just find it so funny how guys can defend/criticize a movie that is not even released yet. :D Especially Avatar, I have seen, read absolutely nothing about this so seeing people hating/loving it already is amusing. But I know this place will be boring if my vision came true. That is why I love a Transformer/Michael Bay talkback so much. They are damn entertaining!
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"And this is just another movie? Yeah ok, WTF! Go suck off your dad, and it wouldn't hurt to shave your mom's back" Thank you for proving my point.
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I was going to go with "The Chinaman who peed on my rug", but I didn't think it had the proper nomenclature.
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Awesome movie, watched it last week. Chinaman:"He is just a loser." The Dude: "Well, at least I'm house trained!"
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That rug really tied the room together.
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SOME FOOTAGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED AT SOME POINT IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THEY DIDN'T. MAJOR SUCKAGE IN THE WORKS.
EVEN MCG RELEASE SHOTS NOT SFX FINISHED IN THE T4 TRAILERS, AND NO ONE NOTICED, BECAUSE ALL WE WANT IS SOME GOODDAMN FOOTAGE. NOT FOOTAGE MEANS THE MOVIE WILL SUCK. THEY ARE ASHAMED OF THE CATWOMAN LIKE CREATURES AND TAILS, CAMERON DID A PITOF ON US ! -
PROBABLY IS THE SECOND UNIT ON AVATAR SO IT'S THE END BROTHERS
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But there's plenty of info on the web to give a pretty good idea what's going on with this project.Including the treatment from a decade ago.
Even JC said early on he doesn't know if it'll be a good movie or not. But it'll be something no one has EVER seen before. This is a game changer. This isn't just another popcorn flic for the summer , like Transformers, Spiderman, or even like Ironman and TDK.
It won't look, sound, feel like any other movie before it. So no, it's not just another movie. Even if the story falls flat and the characters are blah. But I doubt that from JC.
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Shut it.
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And don't forget that even tho JC (wow, just like Jesus Christ!) does indeed have a stupid big ego, he isn't doing jack shit other than going "yes" or "no" when it comes to the production-fx work (please correct me if I'm wrong here) so in a sense, he's not stroking himself so much as the team he's working with.That said, please do not fuck my eyeballs. Just because this word "balls" is involved or something. Sheesh.
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are teaming with pimple faced virgins with only 31 neurons firing in their box of rocks skull.
This is a 3D movie. Any 2D footage we see won't show the effect. You have to go to the cinema that is going to show a 3D film to see an early glimpse. Like Monsters & Aliens, Up, Ice Age, Harry Potter, Piranha 3D..etc.
I can already see hear it now. Some early 2D footage will leak out on the web or a 3D trailer will show up on the web like from a pirated version from a video camera captured in Hong Kong and you clowns will say stupid shit like "I don't see what the big deal is."
I wonder but hope not that they don't release a 3D anaglyph (red/blue glasses) version for TV and internet. I think that will hurt the film.
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Cuz in 2009 Avatar will be fucking your eyes!!!
allegedly -
those fuckers
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...it's about pushing the edge of CGI'd characters and environments.3D is just a gimmick.
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people who work in the effects industry have colossal sized egos. he really does think hes as cool as an astronaut on the first moon landing.
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You need to ammend that last post...EVERYBODY in the film industry have colossal sized egos. Have you ever watched the Oscars?
And I second Mr. Nice Gaius....Plant-shut it. -
...please read again what Cameron wrote. You completely missed his point. Thank you.
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He's a colossal, Galactus-like, planet-eating motherfucker!
'Jim out!' How fucking cool is that? James Cameron has left the building, people! -
it looks fake and dated, even the new stuff. hopefully this will look real, but ehh...
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is fucking lame. Sorry, but is Ryan Seacrest his new publicist?
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I think.... "of the closet"???
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Actually, as far as I know, Laeta Kaolgordis was co-writing Battle Angel,at least an early draft of it, not Avatar, which Jim is writing entirely by himself. Which suits me fine - he's writen all his scripts himself, except T2 and strange days, and that was only to offload the workload. I remember even Jay Cocks saying he didn't know why Cameron hired him, since he'd practically already had the script thoroughly mapped out himself. Lazy hacks have derided JC's writing because of some melodramatic dialogue in Titanic, but the truth is he's a great writer, great structure, and as for dialogue, he ain't no Mamet, but I could name you dozens of great exchanges in his movies. Check out his script for the unproduced A Crowded Room if you haven't already, just to see what Cameron is capable of. I dearly wish he'd made it, so that some of his detractors would have realised just how good this guy really is. BTW, regarding Laserpants; pay him no mind. He's a wind-up merchant of the first order. Just enjoy him for the endless source of comedy he provides, as he twists himself into ever more absurd contortions of logic and hyperbole. He's the court jester of all Cameron/ Terminator-related talkback!
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was the death of James Cameron's cred. I have no reason to believe in Avatar. Whatever happened to the small free diving movie he was supposed to direct. That would probably be good.
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I could have cared less about Titanic when that came out. T2 was too many dead brain cells ago. I'd be fuggin surprised if this movie is worth a damn.
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Agreed. That glib, third person bullshit is ass. Unless you're Bob Dole...err...correction: Bobdole. I only ever refer to myself in the third person as Bobdole. Bobdole loves pron. Bobdole loves Bobdole's fast cars and even faster women. Bobdole likes sex and almond M&M'sBobdole out!
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the science aspect of it. I had problems with the treatment. This takes place 100 years from now. I want to see how he portrays Earth in 2100. It better be pretty divided between the rich and poor. Jake is a paraplegic in a wheel chair from the war. To be picky, there won't be any paraplegics and wheelchairs in 2100. Only unless there is a section of the population that never advanced past 2000. Perhaps denied technology from the rich. Jake was injured in a war. Again what kind of war? The weapons in 2100 will be so powerful, actually having a war might mean annihilation for a section of the planet.
I think the progress of the social and culture aspect of the human race will be ify in this story. But the hardware will be cool to see. -
You really don't think there will be wheelchairs?
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Although spinal corrective surgery probably exists at the time of the story, there's no way a washed up ex-marine paraplegic can afford it. so yes, there will still be the dregs of society in wheelchairs. it was made pretty clear in the story that earth was an over-populated run-down shit-hole, with only the super-rich able to afford luxuries. that's one of jake sully's main motivations to go on the trip to pandora- money.
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What the fuck is with this cunt? He spends three months calling anyone that has misgivings about the Watchmen movie a basement dwelling virgin (haw fucking haw), because he believes they don't have enough information to form any opinion (you know, like trailers and leaked information on the ending and THE FUCKING SOURCE MATERIAL). He then decides to apparently spend the rest of the fucking year bashing a movie WE HAVEN'T SEEN ONE FUCKING FRAME OF. This must be one of the most secretive fucking productions in the history of cinema but somehow Laserpants FUCKING KNOWS it'll be a mediocre movie, based on literally nothing but a 20 year old treatment. To sum up, I fucking hate you Laserpants, I really do.
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What are some "gamechangers" of the past? Star Wars? The Matrix? What else>
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...I want to believe you're right about that not being true. But I also want to know how YOU know it isn't true. The casual remark within brackets doesn't quite come off as very convincing. Did you get an e-mail from Spielberg or Jackson about this? Why not share that letter, too?
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Jesus, I'd pay real money to have an Fx laden film's director care as much about how a line is written and delivered (cough, Jackson, cough) as they do about the minutia of special effects.
The Phantom Menace wasn't ruined because Jar Jar's ears flopped wierd, it sucked ass because the script was god awfull and the delivery was devoid of all emotion. And now I'm concerned as hell for the state of Avatar if Cameron's gone Lucas on us. "I have a movie to sell" (ie, toys). No, you have a film to create. It'll sell itself if you don't screw it up. Leave the tail wagging to some Fx unit supervisor and worry about the script and the plot Cameron! -
I said it would be okay. Methinks you over-identify with thine entertainment choices -- the first red flag which points to the obvious fact that you are 1) obese 2) a virgin, and 3) live in your mother's basement, outhouse, or damp wet hole out back the shack.You know it, I know it, and theres nothing more to be said. AVATAR will be... okay. No eyeballs will be fucked, but many legs will be dry humped.
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AND KICK HIS FUCKING HEAD IN
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because you need a guy that can't walk and gets a chance again via an avatar on an alien world. That is totally cool. I'm just saying that he's implying that or social progress has stalled but the technological progress as rocketed forward.
Our technology has sped past our humanity. But I think that we'll have it together more so then, then we do now. If in 2100 that only the rich has access to the advances in technology then there will not be wheelchairs and paraplegics for them.
Go back 100 years. And tell them that we designed programmable matter, mapped the human genome, landed a probe on an asteroid, implanted devices into people's bodies who are blind and now can see the out line of a door when looking around the room, and can hear better, and move robotic limbs, we have computers and their increasing speed, the internet, the list goes on and on.
To travel to the nearest star in 3 years or what ever is in the story is pretty advanced.
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But for some reason he cracks me up. Maybe I just have a soft spot for the retarded.
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Titwank, get a new comeback, because me thinks thou doth protest TO much.
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Because AICN was the first to say positive things about TITANIC.
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But as long as no footage is release in 1080p ONLINE, AVATAR DOES NOT EXIST. It's just an utopia.
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Mar 12, 2009 3:25:51 PM CDT
Here is the Spielberg/Jackson rumor from MARKETSHAW
by standundermyumbrella
4. TINTIN: Jackson - Spielberg Spat?
"I was told recently that Jackson got a proper dressing down by Spielberg on the TINTIN set. Jackson is famous for letting things 'evolve' during shooting (as the crew sit around thumb-twiddling). Apparently big Steve (who always delivers his pics under budget and on schedule) got irritated by this approach and basically told Jackson 'Lets all just concentrate on getting whats on the script page!' ... from experience I know he (Jackson) can't make his mind up on anything, much to the frustration of the crew who end up busting ass for stuff they know will never be seen."
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Your name makes me thristy
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NO FOOTAGE WHEN THE SHOOTING WAS COMPLETED THREE YEARS AGO. THINK ABOUT IT. The star actually made two other movies after that released before even a single shot of Avatar is seen online or anywhere.
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Shouldn't the same thing be said about STAR TREK and a dozen other futuristic sci-fi franchises? Aren't you overthinking this a bit?
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I think the more likely rumor is that TINTIN will not be a trilogy but a single film. Last I heard, Spielberg was doing the shooting and Jackson & Co. were taking care of the edit and effects. It's starting to sound more like a co-directorial effort.
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Seriously. Shut it.
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...filmakers and writers overestimate the near future. Like Blade Runner...2019 and we've got artificial humans as slave labor. Back in the 50's people conceived we'd have flying cars by now.
Things change a lot...but then again, not so much. better to over shoot the future date or just say "Sometime in the distant future" I hope Cameron doesn't go with that 2100 date. -
Harry insists that it's "not true", but his assertion seems a vague. I hope he's right, but how does he really know? He mentions no source to back up his claim.
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Go away and let the adults talk in peace.
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...is a whole lot more docile when his cohort, Dickblood, isn't around, isn't he? Don't worry -- once that other troll shows up LaserPants will be shouting "T2 SUCKS!!" and "We wub you robodaddy!!" as loud as ever.
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Mar 12, 2009 3:46:10 PM CDT
AVATAR is the event movie to beat in 2009. Michael Bay and McG’s
by standundermyumbrella
Great summary from /film
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AVATAR is the event movie to beat in 2009. Michael Bay and McG’s “my robot is bigger and more realistic” debate is not on Cameron’s radar screen
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Just ask your mother.
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I may not agree with LaserPants' methods, but I do agree with him that T1 was a superior pic. That was a pure sci-fi horror movie. In T2, Cameron had to try and give mankind some salvation (no pun intended) and have more meaning. Blah. Judgement day should have happened in T2. And there should be no good Terminators.
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Shrouded in complete mystery, but endlessly fascinating.
So true, so true -
I hate to blow up your Robodaddy, but I've lived on my own since I was 18, have a girlfriend, and exercise regularly. Ergo I neither reside in my mother's basement, am very much sexually active, and am in shape. How about you?
AVATAR! DRY HUMPING YOUR LEG AS YOU DRIFT OFF TO SLEEP! -
I didn't even say it would suck! I didn't even say THE ABYSS sucked! And yet you are calling for my blood? Geez louise, you guys gotta get outta the house more often. Cameron made two good movies -- T1 and ALIENS. Since then he has been a technical innovator, this is true. But he's also made a string of efx driven, hollow, boring, mediocre movies. Now, theres nothing wrong with this, but he is emphatically NOT a great director. He's okay. At best.
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For teh love of gawd, please!
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thats why he left you, O and his cock was tiny, and your only about 17, liar.
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And True Lies was a great little action movie, wouldn't you agree?
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I've been loathe to mention DGDB, suprised he hasn't sniffed out any thread remotely related to Cameron. There must be a competing Christian Bale thread to occupy his time which I'm not aware of.
No one has posted more on AICN and yet said so very little. -
Yawn.
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that was a pretty good Cameron flick. I am just going to hold judgement until I see something.
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how many of the people who did not like Watchmen, and are now strongly voicing their displeasure; are, also, people who were ready (and likely still are)to march on the Fox studio offices, with torches and pitchforks, when the whole Watchmen film rights issue went to court, back in December.
The reason I'm wondering is, Avatar is being produced and released, under the Fox banner. This Fox hatred likely means that any bad reports about the Avatar production will be instantly believed. However, Cameron is notoriously stubborn when it comes to sticking to his vision. I'm gonna take Harry's advice and file this and probably any future bad reports, on this film, under B.S. -
Mar 12, 2009 4:29:10 PM CDT
"No one has posted more on AICN and yet said so very little."
by mr. nice gaius
Have you seen lockesbrokenleg's posts lately?
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So they didn't suck...they are just hollow and boring. Our mistake. I never find hollow and boring films sucky. I am curious who you think are great directors.
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How could we do anything but? One can get excited in anticipation based on the history and info at hand. We can guess, hope and maybe even deduce some level of quality based on Cameron's past work. But really it's all hope and guessing based on Cameron's track record.
But I for one thought King Kong and Matrix Reloaded were going to be awesome follow ups for those directors and I ate humble pie.
And yes True Lies is great and really holds up. Just see how Cameron stages the gunfight scene after Arnold whacks the creepy doctor who injects him with truth serum. Perfectly paced and edited...peaking with him outrunning that explosion by diving into the water and a great shot of the flames above the surface from the underwater POV. Saw it on TV recently and enjoyed the hell out of it. -
Don't get me wrong -- I prefer T1 to T2 as well. I find T2 to be a tad bloated and shambling at times. But it's not worthy of the hate LP heaps on it.
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No, never said that it was worthy of the hate and there are alot of good things about T2. As a 13 year old watching it, I thought it was the most awesome movie of all time. I just recently watched T1 and T2 back to back and found T1 to be a much better movie, in my opinion. T2, while visually stunning for its time, really didn't hold up in my mind. Still good, but not the second coming I once thought it was.
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What are you gonna do when BSG ends? Stop posting, hopefully?
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...is absolute fucking proof that we hold today's movies to a much (and I mean MUCH) lower standard than movies from a decade or more ago. I agree it isn't as good as T1 but so fucking what? It's like saying hand jobs aren't as good as blow jobs. I can't think of all that many movies made in the last few years that are more enjoyable than T2.
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Mar 12, 2009 5:05:08 PM CDT
I think we hold movies to a higher standard these days
by lockesbrokenleg
Thanks to websites and hype people want there damn minds blown every time a movie comes out. Back in the day, a shit movie was a shit movie.
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...and AVATAR is fucking the shit out of them in 2009!
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Kubrick, Kurosawa, Jodorowsky, Lynch, Scorcese, Coppolla (before he lost it), Del Toro, Cuaron, Chan Wook Park, Miike. Thats just a few whose work I admire greatly.
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and AVATAR is rubbing one out on them as you drift off to sleep.
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He likes shitty monster movies.
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http://truthactionottawa.com/main/?page_id=312
Check this out! -
Star travel and war doesn't make sense to me. It's not impossible, but the energy needed to get to the fucking star would vaporize the living on this planet. It wouldn't even be called war. That's like giving a 2 year old a loaded pistol.
Take the movie Sunshine. The movie looked great but was a retarded concept. In 50 years our Sun is dying or has an ED problem and needs help from us almighty humans. LOL! So many people that write this crap think humans are so much more important and powerful then we really are.
Like humans in 50 years can make a device capable of re-igniting the Sun. Come on! And movie's like The Core.
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If I was make a list of talkbacker-proof directors it'd look exactly like that. You fucking pussy.
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What about the singularity, man? Who the fuck knows what we might have in 50 years.
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Safest. Answers. Ever.
Fail. -
This movie will suck ass.
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Actually, academics in this field consider all of Megan Fox's orifices to be pussys.
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Wait a second, wait a second. So what you're telling me, is that my honest answer isn't good enough? Are you fucking kidding me? Are you people THAT fucking pathetic? Geezus fucking christ you people are unbelievable.
Then you know what, fill in the blanks. Make me what you need to make me to fulfill whatever sad fantasy you have. Here, I'll help you: My favorite directors are Ed Wood, Your Mom, and Uwe Boll. I think they're all brilliant. Happy now? Now put down the hoagie and begin thwacking away with thine pudgy fingers and let me know what you "think." -
And I greatly admire Bach, Hadyn,Beethoven,Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Led Zeppelin and The Beatles...
C'mon...who's your 'guilty pleasure'? -
it's getting pounded right now
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Never got the guilt thing. I like what I like. I dunno, throw some names at me and I'll tell you what I think. OR, get lives and move on. Your choice.
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Hey, its a goddamn MOVIE. As long as it's fun and entertains me as much as Aliens did, I'll be there. It's been too long James...
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To go with you perfectly reasonable list Laser
Ridley Scott
John Landis
Chris Nolan
The Coens Bros
Paul Verhovan
Luc Beeson
Billy Wilder
Terry Gilliam
Takeshi Kitano
John Mcteirnan
Sammo Hung
and JACKIE FUCKIN CHAN To name some -
Cameron responds to "not good enough" story cranking up the Hype STILL further ????
Still looking forward to this but unless the CG is absolutely unique and Jaw Dropping Cameron is setting Avatar up for a huge fall and disappointment. -
Ridley Scott -- I love Alien and Blade Runner. His other films are decent, but I don't love them.
John Landis -- I love American Werewolf In London. I think he did that. I think its hilarious. Didn't he do Ghostbusters too? I liked the first one.
Chris Nolan -- OF COURSE! He's great. He made Memento, Batman Begins, and TDK. I didn't really like that magician one, though. It was okay.
The Coen Bros -- Of course, they're great.
Paul Verhoven -- Love him too. espeically his American Culture Satire Trilogy -- Robocop, Showgirls, and Starship Troopers.
Luc Besson -- I loved The Professional. Thats about it.
Billy Wilder -- Did he do The Seven Year Itch? Not a fan, really, sorry.
Tery Gillian -- OF COURSE! Love his work. Especially Brazil and 12 Monkeys.
Takeshi Kitano -- Love him too. Sonantine is probably my favorite, but I really liked his Zatoichi remake too. Loved his role in Battle Royale too.
JOhn McTiernan -- I loved Die Hard when I was a kid. I don't think it holds up too well though.
Sammo Hung -- I have no idea who this is.
Jackie Fucking Chan -- Hell, who didn't love Drunken Master?!?!?
So, I largely agree with you. Okay? -
Fixed the title for ya
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Hate for Cameron is unreasonable.The man makes great movies - yes, 6 good to absolutely fucking great movies, not just 2 as Laserpants seems to think - nor can I think of any director who beats him on a pure entertainment level. He is unquestionably a great fucking director. The Terminator - modern classic.Aliens - tied with Empire and Godfather 2 as greatest sequel ever made. The Abyss - theatrical cut: great first 2/3rds, slightly anti-climactic lat 1/3. Director's Cut: Along with Aliens, possibly his best movie. T2: Another great sequel, superior in many ways to the original. Also has possibly his best action setpieces - which, by default, means some of the best in cinema history. True Lies - his weakest, but still a ton of fun, gloriously un-PC, and funny as fuck - one of the last great old-school action movies. Not to mention the last great Arnold movie. Strange Days (Kathryn Bigelow directed, but still a Cameron movie in all but name, like Poltergeist for Spielberg - he wrote, produced, and directed)-one of the most under-rated sci-fi movies ever, one of the best films of the 90's, in fact - ahead of its time.Titanic-gets no love here, but what aliens and T2 are for guys, this is the equivalent for girls. In some respects his most accomplished work yet, appealed to ALL demographics, not just the much mocked leo fangirls, beautiful imagery - the set-piece of the ship's engines going out to sea is masteful visual/ musical filmmaking at its finest - pure cinematic poetry.It is what it is -a great piece of classic hollywood melodrama. That's an outstanding record. Cameron is no joke - although some of his most vehement detractors (no names) most certainly are. Avatar - his greatest movie to date? I'd bet the fucking farm on it.
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'wrote, produced, and edited' for Strange Days.
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hey dude, whats up? Actually It was Moriarty himself on Hitfix that confirmed that Laeta Kalogordis has worked on the Avatar script.
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my bru, het jy die oud Trek movies gevind?
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Think of the possibilities, and Know true fear.
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Guys, really...please I find it just best to completely ignore laserpants. He is really like an obnoxious 7 year old child. Dont indulge him guys, its not worth it. And he has this bizarre (perhaps closeted sexual obsession) on wether any of us or fat or live with our mothers. Perhaps thats his turn on i dont know.
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Please note that this equation can also be expressed as:
AVATAR = DANCES WITH WOLVES + Space
OR
AVATAR = ENEMY MINE - Pregnant hermaphrodite alien
Space war vet "goes native" and risks his life to help the locals fight invading arsehats on some planet. Yawn.
Hollywood, I said it once, I'll say it again: either adapt a real SF novel like NEUROMANCER, ENDER'S GAME or MOTE IN GOD'S EYE or fuck off with your plot retreads. CGI is a sorry substitute for an original story. -
----the Bull and Dan Fielding of the AICN Boards! I'm impressed!---- And now the Quothe of the day: BULL!! I WANT TO BE YOUR LOVE SLAVE!!!
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I really am, it's insanity. Think about the scope, escapism, incredible action, quality performances, serious tone and surprises and imagine NOT being entertained by this movie!We've all been burnt by too many awful blockbusters since AICN started I guess BUT SERIOUSLY WTF!!?It almost makes me MORE excited about this build up though, if so many geeks are actually not expecting much then the build up is going to be great fun. I guess the first trailer will kill this shit dead anyway... (and yeah please shut-up The plant)
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fuck don't listen to LaserPants. He's the same moron who hyped the Watchmen. LOL. A James Cameron blockbuster is better than a Bay/Sommers/Snyder/McG blockbuster any day of the week. If this movie isn't mindblowingly great at least it will be entertaining.
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What's up you crazy bastard?The "Bull and Dan Fielding of the AICN Boards", eh? Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that, Bodet.Does that make you AICN's Judge Harry T. Stone?
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It's a good thing. You can decide which one of you two has the shaved head and stupid look, and which one has the Used Car Salesmen Suits and sleazy '80's pompadour. Or not. You don't seem to hear much about this show, maybe it's just me-I miss it.
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Dan Fielding was one of the greatest characters of all time.
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how any one that calls themselves a genre fan or a geek is not excited about/interested in or willing to give some credit to the pairing of Cameron with Weta, Digital Domain and Stan Winston studios, and given that this is truly something fresh and original (not to mention risky) compared to all the endless sequals/remakes/reboots/adaptations etc then you must just be dead inside.
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Yeah i know dude. I love how he goes crazy about the watchmen (even though there are so many people that despise the movie)Though he will bleat on about how massive a success it is. (for the record I hope it does well and proves the studios wrong about r rated movies, have nt seen it as it does nt interest me, but I dont go onto the watchmen talkbacks and spout garbage about it) and his list of directors? hee,hee *snicker* ok, thats all I need to know to never take anything he ever says seriously again. half on that list could be in contention for most overrated on this site.
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Mar 12, 2009 8:10:40 PM CDT
And IF Avatar is a monster hit and moment in pop culture
by southafricanguy
come december, you just know he will still be here bleating about how wrong everyone is.
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I get it. You already love it even though you have NO FUCKING IDEA what its about or what is going on with it. Fine. I get it. How about this; I'm skeptical at best about this. Sell me on the concept. What is this movie about? Is there a synopsis? A treatment? Or sciptment whatver? Wheres the link? As it stands, I smell THE ABYSS... I smell... THE PHANTOM MENACE... and so do you.... deep in your hearts... so... do... YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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(say it with me now) TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION BECAUSE ABKING IS ON THE SCENE AND HE'S PACKIN'!
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Was the movie equivalent of a fatal car crash you happen to pass by on the freeway. Even though you know you shouldn't slow down and look, it's human nature for you rubber neck just like everyone else to see the carnage with your very own eyes. That's why it did the numbers it did. I'm not taking anything away from JC, but those are the facts.
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Here's the movie in a nutshell. We discover an Alien world abundant in resources, with primitive bipedal inhabitants and the craziest plant and animal life you can imagine. For psychological reasons us Earthlings decide that the best way to communicate with the natives is through someone who looks like them (Avatar). Once we arrive on the planet, the Humans are attacked by extremely weird life forms, one part of the script describes a creature who "throws his own head at you". To make a long story short, instead of the Humans brokering a fair deal with the natives, we decide it's best to take what we want, and kill any natives that are in our way. And the movies hero(Sam Worthington)decides to fight with the natives since he's fallen in love with one of the native women. So the movie is basically, Pocahontas/Aliens/Jurasic Park. The three main themes in this movie is discovery, love, and survival.
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That sounds like a cool story. Not original, but definitely cool. Thanks for the run down ganymede.
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The Abyss was mediocre/good, T2 hasn't aged well, it sucks now. I hope this is good but just like Obama it will probably end up being a polished turd.
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humans can't live in their environment. So a hybrid is made from human DNA and Na'vi DNA.
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It appears that JC has been stricken with the George Lucas syndrome . The movie seems to be overly fixated on the visuals instead of the story. I still think the movie will deliver. Seeing this Alien world in 3-D IMAX will be an eye-fuck indeed:)
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You're right, it's going to be a hybrid. However, the Avatar will still resemble a Na'vi. The hybrids are created without brains allowing the Avatar to be controlled by a human. The main reason for creating the Avatar is for communication purposes, along with weathering the alien environment.
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Shall be stripped from moviegoers by the millions.
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Mar 12, 2009 11:07:33 PM CDT
No laserpants you dont get it...thats exactly the point
by southafricanguy
you are assuming it wont be really good, whereas many of us do know what its about and we have some idea of whats going on with it. Does that mean it will be amazing..of course not dude, and yes you are right that there is a possibility of us getting tpm part2. However, all we are saying is that based on Cameron's track record (wether it appeals to you or not, which like all film is highly subjective) and the fact that as far as we know so far...Cameron has not lost all his talent and sensesibility ala Lucas.
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crazy, going on total blind faith etc..dude thats not the case for those that have done their homework...thats it, ok?
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Mar 12, 2009 11:10:45 PM CDT
Now if you would like to have a rational conversation
by southafricanguy
whereby you might like to know more detail (as much as anyone has been able to find out) i.e story details, concepts, whos working on it etc ...I will gladly tell you laserpants.
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Mar 12, 2009 11:15:45 PM CDT
now laserpants...if you tell me that you just dont like
by southafricanguy
action sci-fi (maybe you prefer more arty type genre fare) or Cameron's movies just dont do it for you...then more power to you buddy. You see I dont like Terry gilliam's movies for example (I wont bore you with the reasons why) but i see that you do. However i dont go onto talkbacks (eg for this last movie he was making with heath ledger) and voice really strong opinions about his movies that i a)know very little about (i know nothing of his new movie becos im not interested) and try to convince fans of said director that he is overrated etc..
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because Cameron is one of my favourite directors (and I happen to think he makes the best action sci-fi movies) and im interested in Avatar because I love epic sci-fi (and Lucas let me down horribly with the prequals)and this has a chance to be really good epic sci-fi for adults. And there is some just damn cool action in the scriptment.
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Mar 12, 2009 11:20:37 PM CDT
and i just want to talk about Cameron's movies, Avatar
by southafricanguy
or sci-fi in general
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up perfectly lol.
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I'd forgotten about it, I love that book, The Mote in God's Eye. To see that faithfully reproduced on the big screen would be amazing, and we'll probably never see it. And why?
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Oh yea, that was a big FAIL also. -
Please. Just release an actual still shot from the movie and a trailer, to shut me an others up. Or else, it's just wind.
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This movie is the equivalent of Chinese Democracy. Guns n Roses should score the closing credits.
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Avatar to anybody, if its of no interest to you then its of no interest to you *shrug*. I dont care if all the haters/trolls have already deceided they dont like it.
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lol dude, both cameron an Axl are such perfectionists, forget gnr scoring the end credits, they should make a musical together! It would take about 20 years to make, that is if one of them does nt kill the other first lol
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...while Dennis Dyack and George Broussard make the video game tie-in. Holy fucking shit.
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for every true lover of film and sci-fi geek alike. Followed closely by Terrence Malicks Tree Of Life. Oh, and Cameron's only made one film that was less than steller and it was called Piranah 2. For anyone that disagees or feels this new film will be crap I quote the great scholar Martin McFly: "Guess you arn't ready for that one yet...but you kids are gonna love it." (How's it feel to be consistantly wrong?)
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Ja chomma, het gekry maar nog nie kaans gekry om dit te kyk nie. Dalk die naweek!
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you are quite corrects sir, for true lovers (geeks) of sci-fi this is the years most anticipated. However my friend, Cameron cant be blamed for P2 as he did not actually direct it. So technically T1 is still his first movie.
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So what ones did you manage to find?
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Im freezing my balls off here in Seoul. They get the Siberian wind here dude, goes through you like you cant believe...
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Are you still around dude? Just wondering what your thought are on several rumours..
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There is no way to be sure what Avatar is costing since there are widely differing estimates boucing around the net. Im curious how you know its that high..
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moolah...
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'Motion Picture' and 'Kahn' (?). Weren't on special but payed R200 for both, not bad.. Hope this weekend I will get a chance but have wedding and birthday party's coming from all sides. A bit overcast today but tomorrow will be a stunner. 30 degrees with a light SE, hope it's light and doesn't howl.... Should be good!
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I hope it is, its really better. But just be prepared for how very different the two movies are. Tmp is more like 2001: a space odessy, while wok is quite similar to the tos tv show. And yeah 200 rand for both is nt too bad. I can useally pick up movies for between 7000-1100 Won here in Korea. Thats about between R60-R90 depending on the exact exchange rate.
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style leisure suits and design asthetic of TMP. Its even funnier than the mini-skirts, go-go boots and heels that the men wear in TOS lol
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... to remember it was the directors cut. The first one at least.
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...go for about R60 these days but these were R100 for some reason. Will also have to watch when the wife is out, like I said not really a Sci-fi fan.
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Mar 13, 2009 5:45:40 AM CDT
GRRR...yeah fair enough, I will get your thoughts about
by southafricanguy
that at a later stage. you mentioned you were looking forward to transformers 2. What did you think of the first one? And were you familiar with the source material beforehand, or were you a TF virgin?
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wtf??!?Admin anyone?
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There's a little SA flick called The Stick, a supernatural horror/war story that I feel is horribly neglected by Geek Nation, which is understandable considering how hard it is to find in any decent shape. Is it available on DVD in SA? And if so, can you recommend an online SA DVD dealership that I could order from? Thanks in advance, bru.
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And if the queue ever catches up, some vulgar shit will find it's way to that talkback.
No offense to the people here at AICN, but I was getting a little irritated and may have expressed myself via keyboard. -
Yihla Moja, Yihla Moja
-The man is dead -
Would've thought the King of the World would have an assistant for that kind of mundane shit. Guess the position isn't all it was advertised to be. At least, he'll soon pwn all of Tard Nation's raped eyeballs. That's considered a perk these days, I guess.
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Dude I know the movie, and you are right it is a very neglected little supernatural/horror movie, and its very hard to find on dvd. You have to understand that it was made during the Apartheid era, and deals with white soldiers of that time period..very unpopular in South Africa these days.
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tv, and it may not be available on dvd. Your best bet would be kalahari.net its a kind of south african version of amazon
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Where are you from? And how doyou know bru?
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This is from the director that has Arnie giving the 'thumbs up' as he's being torched at the end of T2? The guy who made Dark Angel? Yeah, the guy who made Titanic...Yyyyeeeeah. Sounds fucking awesome, tards. Also, I ain't seen pic one of the shit in this flick. Something else will get my money.Damn, it feels good to just say negative shit. I know why haters do it, now. Hurry up with the fucking trailer, man.
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Quote: "Hurry up with the fucking trailer, man."Yeah, you want to see just as badly as everyone else. Heh.
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Yeesh dude, calm down. See all the above posts if you must know why so many are excited (cant really be bothered to repeat it all)
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Don't be frightened. Its only words.
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How many bad tv shows have big directors been involved in? Spielberg..too many to count (seaquest anyone?) or that godawful alien invasion series Coppola was involved with etc..the list just goes on. At least thank Cameron for letting us all ogle the super fine Jessica Alba (yeah i know she cant act, but she looks so pretty trying..)
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something that interests you. Life is too short to waste it getting worked up about a movie from a director whos work you dont like my friend. Trust me you will be less agravated, and possibly happier
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Mar 13, 2009 11:08:19 AM CDT
So laserpants...are you ready to sell me on Watchmen?
by southafricanguy
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Mar 13, 2009 11:16:05 AM CDT
No, I Don't Particularly Care If You See It, Like It, Or Hate It
by laserpants
See, I have a healthy perspective when it comes to things I like -- It doesn't matter to me what other people think about it. My opinion is good enough for me; your opinion is irrelevant. If you agree, great! If not, I don't care. You should try distancing yourself from your entertainment and not taking criticisms so seriously and so personally.
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Mar 13, 2009 11:34:37 AM CDT
Well you have a point laserpants, i was just joking about
by southafricanguy
you selling me watchmen. And for the record its not your criticism per se that bothers me (and you have to admit many others on this talkback) its that you have such strong opinion about something you are the first to admit you know almost nothing about. And thats why so many here find you just plain obnoxious. You do just seem to say whatever, not because it has any point, but because its what you choose to believe. And that fine dude, but then at the same time please dont try to tell all of us that are excited about something (something that we do know quite a fair amount about)that we are delusional or whatever else you go on about. As I said if Cameron's movies are nt your thing...great! Film is highly subjective is nt it? I dont like many of the directors you named on your list (in fact I think some of them are terrible). But I would nt waste my time spouting shit about any of their movies.
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Mar 13, 2009 11:39:10 AM CDT
We get it laserpants..you dont like Cameron, you dont like his m
by southafricanguy
and you have already deceided the quality of Avatar. You re that type of talkbacker. But I and many others here are big fans of Cameron's movies, and for a large vareity of reasons we are excited. So how about you just let us be? Maybe you are burnt out and cynical from too many dissapointments..
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Thanks for the info.
As for the "bru" thing, I used to have a South African girlfriend about 20 years ago. She was lekker... ;)
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I have it on a Swedish retail VHS tape from 1989. I also managed to track down a TV rip online but the quality was so-so. I really love that movie.
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Harry, can you please ask your BFF when the trailer is coming. I am dying here. Will it be before Wolverine or Harry Potter? My eyeballs need something.
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THERE'S JUST NO HYPE ONTHIS MOVIE EXCEPT IN HARDCORE CAMERON FANS CIRCLES. ASK HIM TO QUIT SPACE, COME BACK TO EARTH,AND FUCKING POST A 8MN TRAILER IN 1080P ON FUCKIN ITUNES SO THAT WE EITHER CAN LAUGH AT THE OLD MAN OR GET ON OUR KNEES AND GET OUR EYEBALLS FUCKED, BUT ENOUGH OF THIS FOREPLAY SHIT
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apparently that fact alone is not enough. nooooo... neeed... trailers... neeeed to see... images.
dont worry, if the studio got their way, you'll see 3 dozens version of trailers leading up to the movie's release. by then there's no need to see the movie in theater because you have seen EVERYTHING!!!
for pete's sake, it's only MARCH!
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Mar 13, 2009 2:32:12 PM CDT
Laserpants you lost all credibility when you said
by the_genteel_gentile
your not a fan of Billy Wilder. Wilder is one of the all time great and most deverse master filmmakers. You also said you are a fan of Chan Wook Park. I mean JSA is watchable but have you actually seen Oldboy? It's utter nonsense. There's not one genuine, logical, believable moment to be found. It's inept filmmaking and horrid writing. Korean films have the perpetual habit of trying to be shocking in some ridiculously contrived way instead of actually being good. Those are the only 2 films I've seen from Chan-wook Park, and I have no desire to see more because Oldboy was talked up as being fantastic and was then exposed as being soul sucking tripe. NOT a "talkbacker-proof-director" in the least. I learned the hard way long ago to stay far away from the majority of "Asian Cinema", especially anything out of Korea or Japan (Kurosawa is a glaring exception), due to the fact that it rots one's brain. I've never even heard of Jodorowsky or Miike, but judging by your off putting taste I'm quite sure I don't need to. You don't think John McTiernan's Die Hard "hold up too well"? What? It's shot better than any other action movie in recent movie, the kenetic steadi-cam, whip-pans, rack focus, animorphic lens flares, frame compositions and mise en scene, Michael Kamens brilliant and influential music score, all motivated by character and plot (Dark Knight was great, but it don't know nothin 'bout this here). A tighter more perfectly paced film, you will never find (although Cameron has indeed equaled it on several occasions). All the jokes still hit. Hans Gruber IS the greatest screen villian of all time. Die Hard is still the smartest, best made, most involving action film ever made and no film has legitimately challenged it for the crown. In no way, shape or form does Watchmen come near equaling the quality of Die Hard, of The Abyss, or T2, or Titanic. But some how I understand that your absolutely in love with that film. Very curious, I thought it was fine but flawed personally. How can you not know who Sammo Hung is, but dig Jackie Chan? That and the fact that you didn't realize Ivan Reitman directed Ghostbusters persuade me to think you need to study up before pontificating your own unique brand film theory. Sorry, but as a compassionate soul I felt it was my obligation to inform you.
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Or I merely expressed my opinion? You decide.
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You refer to Dances With Wolves as if it's a bad thing. If that is your conclusion, then I regret to inform you that you are indeed wrong. Let all specualtion on this matter be put to rest. Please reframe from any further assessments as they will not hold water. If Avatar is 70% as evocative, epic and poignant as Dances With Wolves it will be a monumental success. If Cameron can acheive anything close to Dances resonance, romantism and meloncholy it should be the greatest film of the decade, and we the audience are in for a real treat. There are many reason Goodfellas did't win the Academy Award, most are invalid. However one true reason was able to premunite through all the politics and superficiality that year. It was because Goodfellas didn't deserve it. The Academy accidently got it right when Dances With Wolves was awarded best picture.
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to hold any validity. I just don't think your views can be held with much credence as a respected source. But it's all good, the bottom line is I suppose I just disagree and feel your wrong and not knowledgeable enough to convert me otherwise.
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How does not knowing the name of a particular director impact AT ALL on forming a critical opinion of a given film? It doesn't. All you need to do is see the film and then form an opinion on it. You can have a valid critical opinion about a film (or any work of art for that matter) and not be familiar with the director (or creator). I mean thats just fucking retarded, not to mention anal retentive and pedantic. What are you 10 years old? Or do you just have a giant wooden stick lodged up your ass?
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You don't even know who Jodorowsky or Miike is???? Then, holy shit, every opinion you have on the art of film is invalid.
Stupid, right? Thought so. -
Mar 13, 2009 6:58:52 PM CDT
Jodorowsky or Miike are nobodys as far as I can tell.
by the_genteel_gentile
Maybe I'm being glibly dismissive, it is very much within the realm of possibilities. However you seem to lack some fairly rudimentary awareness that most laymen ought to be acquainted with. Knowing the history behind the art and the artist informs how to accurately assess it. Who and What is it derived from? What does it add to the lexicon of its artform? So your evaluations may infact be rather keen, but they're far from being bore out of wisdom. I like to know an opinion has been marinated in a large vat of "wise" before taking a sip. I want that opinion to be steeped in it's subject matter, if it is not, it is purely novelty and of no consequence. I realize that is an unfair qualification to expect from a website talkbacker, but that is what would be needed for you to make me reassess my own opinion and take yours seriously. But I freely admit I'm biased against your particular views to begin with. Love ya though. I'll take being compared to a 10 year old as a deeply heartfelt compliment. Thank you. However sodomy with a wooden stick is strickly forbidden, you know that. I'm surely guilty as charged in being pedantic, anal retentive, and (occasionally) something equivalent to retarded. Yes I shall not tell a lie, it can, does and will happen frome time to time.
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Oh, man. Y'know, as much as I find LaserPants annoying I really have to point out the epic fail of your posts, GenteelG. You just lost any credibility you may have had in tearing him a new one.
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That is all.
A filmmaker of his caliber can thrust his schlong into my eyeballs any time. -
of you guys read the old Avatar scriptment?
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I'n not implying those filmmakers are bad or good, only that I have no data on them one way or another. But I am fairly certain they've yet to earn the right to be mentioned amongst the very best directors. However, I am willing to learn, so enlighten me, make me a believer, why should I care? I'm sorry you felt my failure was of epic proportions. Sincerly, I'm open to being convinced.
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but chose not to read it, so that I can come to the film as fresh and free of preconceptions as possible. Because I'm there first possible chance regardless, that's due to knowing Camerons history and respecting it enormously. I trust Cameron, he's earned the benefit of any doubt and then some.
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laserpants, he seems to be more of an art house type, and/or the type that loves foreign language movies because they are more obscure. Why he comes to a predominantly geek/genre film site like this I have no idea....he really should find one of those film snob sites where they only do like the more art house type films and/or 'world cinema'. Because based on his opinions (which he is absolutly entitled to) he sure as shit does nt seem to like geeky genre fare...
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for you dude but I think you can rest easy. The scriptment is action packed (literally the entire third act is just a series of epic action set pieces) has layers of subtext and it has a beating heart
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and imagery (fast moving, agile mech armour) like someone pointed out earlier, it read like a live action Mizyaki movie.
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way think that makes them bad, but they are obviously fairly obscure. Was nt Jablowsky the guy that was originally going to do Dune in the 70s before ridly scott's involvement?
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Mar 13, 2009 8:17:52 PM CDT
I also dont get these guys that shit all over directors
by southafricanguy
like Cameron and Mc Tiernan, who have become so influential and copied (one of the marks of great directors must surely be the impact they have on the industry and future film makers no?) And then at the same time they cream their shorts over these really obscure directors *shrugs*
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Mar 13, 2009 9:03:36 PM CDT
southafricanguy - I have supreme confidence in Cameron.
by the_genteel_gentile
Although I have been burnt before (Oliver Stone's theatrical cut of Alexander). Because I have such respect for Oliver Stone, it was heartbreaking. However... **Okay, bear with me here I'm about to to wander off and preach some gospel of film.** However Stone redeamed himself almost fully with his Revisited: Final Cut of Alexander, which while still flawed, verges on masterpiece. It doesn't quite get there, but damned if it don't aim for the bleachers and come pretty darn close. The most drastically different and improved cut of a film I've ever come accross, or even heard of. For those that hated Alexander in the theater (myself included), I would encourage them to reassess it watching his Final Cut version (not the "director's cut", which is also an improvement, but the 3rd cut). Everything you hated is likely still there (if fact there even more of it), but now it works better and is offset and enrichened by previously excised material and a vastly improved complety revamped, reconceived, and retooled structure. The violence and pace of the originally banal and incomprehensible battle scenes are restored to their rightful full savage beauty, now ranking them among the very best epic battles in all of film. I know it's off topic, but inspiration struck and I felt compelled to spread the word, sorry. Of course Cameron is a completely different kind of filmmaker from Stone, and has such complete competence of control over his craft that I expect AVATAR to be great straight out of the gate without missing a step. Cameron's never let me down before and he's not the kind of director to leave alot of wiggle room for failure, nor does he gut his films like Ridley Scott has a proclivity to do (love you Ridley, but you know it's true). I'm sure it will be really tight and toned without an ounce of fat.
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Cameron did "gut" his theatical version of The Abyss. The Director's Cut is amongst my very favorite films. But what I mean in Ridley's case is every movie he makes, he cut's the hell out of it and people have to beg him to put it back in. He seems to have gotten worse in doing this. I'm not just talking about cut scenes but cut shots. As much as I loved Kingdom Of Heaven (both versions), he never lets us the audience take in his sumptuous compositions (exquisitely evoking the romantism period in painting), and instead quickly cuts to an inferior pedestrian close-up. I believe he's overly self conscience about being percieved as self conscience, and therefore doesn't want to be accused of lingering on his "beauty shots". There's one magnificently epc money shot of the battle for Jerusalem, that's in the trailers but never even appaers in either version of the film. Ridley needs to every once in awhile let the image marinate with the audience and burn it's way into their subconscience. Kubrick, Welles, Hitchcock and Lean knew this, so does Spielberg and Cameron. It would seem Ridley used to be aware of this, he did such iconic imagery in The Duelist, Blade Runner and Alien. Kevin Costner put it perfectly when he said he likes for his films to be allowed to "breath". Ridley has been more and more willing to suffocate his work, maybe because he's already seen it a million times and is tired of it, but WE haven't and aren't. Still Ridley is one of my favorite directors but I just wish he'd calm down on the ADD editing a touch. Sorry, went off on another rant.
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The_Genteel_Gentile, i was with you there with wilder, but when you fail to appreciate chan wook park, then your credibility goes down the same drain with laserpants's.
oh yeah, JSA is "watchable". so are wilder's films. and i'm sure avatar will be "watchable" as well. -
i think some people here just like to hear themselves talk too much. me included, sometimes.
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Mar 14, 2009 3:17:19 AM CDT
cloudrider` - Well that is a bit of the point right?
by the_genteel_gentile
Look I'm happy for you to hold my hand and walk me through all the ways I'm wrong on Oldboy but first allow me to make my defense. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to claim "EPIC SUCCESS" on this one. Chan Wook Park's Oldboy is neither engageing, enlightening, emotive, evocative, entertaining, enjoyable, intellegent, interesting, inventive nor compelling, clever, thought provoking or even just passably believable. It's utter nonsense because it makes absolutely zero sense (hence the non before the sense). The plot is so preposterously contrived it breaks with any simblance of plausibility. Nothing in its direction, acting or story has any basis whatsoever in reality or the human condition. Its gimmicky one-note shock value is of no value at all. In the lowest level of patronizingly cheap and vulgar contrivances, Oldboy is unbearably ridiculous and trite. Let's just lay this out shall we? So a boy witnessess a brother & sister trying to engage in incest, sister catches boy watching them in a mirror. Before kid moves on to another school he tells his hommies "yo,those two over there were gettin freaky with one another, that's nasty!" Brother then takes his (suppoedly incestuosly impregnated?) sister out to a bridge and lets her fall to her death, then blames the kid who spotted him & sis and told the tell. So revenge minded brother goes on to plot the single most intricate and dumb plan of revenge known to man. AND IT ALL WORKS! Yeah, like 15 years after the incident he somehow kidnaps the dude and imprisons him in a hotel room for like 15-20 years. During this time, guy has no contact with anyone, is repeadily hypnotized and trains himself into a great fighter by hitting a wall and putting calloses on his knuckles. Oh and he watches TV which informs him that his family were all murdered and that he is thought to be the culprit. Now unbeknownst to him, incest brother guy is the cause of all this and has also been raising/brainwashing dudes little daughter. So after however many years he awakes to find himself mysterously set free but because he's been programed through hypnosis he just has to find who did this to him and why, and he'll enlist the help of young hot sushi-chef girl who jumps at the opportunity to be this old crazy farts partner and lover. Ha ha jokes on you, girls his daughter. He finds this out only because he refuses to kill the brother guy once he's found him, because guy promises he's got a humdinger in store for him if he'll just restrain himself from killing him, plus he's got a bum-ticker and he'll press a button to stop his pacemaker and kill himself leaving dude in suspense. Then there's some weird begging scene interlaced with fighting, oh and crazy guy cuts off his own tongue. Brother guys button actually plays audio on a surround sound system of dude nailing his daughter. Once the cats out of the bag, brother guy gets in an elevater and shoots himself in the head. Meanwhile crazy old tongueless fart finds the hypnotist lady and has her erase his guilty knowledge of having slept with his own daughter, so that he can continue to give it to her good with a clear conscience. The end. Oh and somewhere in the middle he throws down in one linear tracking shot in the hallway of his former hotel/prison with like twenty baseball bat weilding dudes whilst armed solely with a hammer, and comes out triumphant due to his capacity for enduring pain and the elite training he gave himself while punching a wall in his prison hotel room. Then he pulls a guys teeth out for information. There's even more convoluted idiodocy, but who cares. That about sum it up. Final assessment: Oldboy is a crude shallow useless waste of complete incepid tripe. Tell me were I went wrong.
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Can we talk about AVATAR?
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Mar 14, 2009 6:56:34 AM CDT
Sure lightninbolt, we can talk about Avatar, what would you like
by southafricanguy
to know/talk aout it?
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Mar 14, 2009 6:57:23 AM CDT
For the record I havenot seen oldboy so I really have
by southafricanguy
no, nor can i, comment
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i curently live in Korea, and iv watched quite a few Korean movies, and I think they are often quite good.
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i was very dissapointed in it too.
But you are also right that Stone and Cameron are two very different film makers -
Mar 14, 2009 7:29:44 AM CDT
Stone can be a really great director, but he is often very hit a
by southafricanguy
miss, while Cameron has been damn cosistant.
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Stone has made..uh..many. And Stone makes controversial/political movies while Cameron mostly does Sci=fi action flicks So its kind of hard to really compare them
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on how you dont get oldboy. fact is, it won top honor at cannes(which to me is a much much MUCH better qualifier of movie as art than the pretentious moronic academy awards). and now the most powerful director in hollywood wants to remake that movie(from the original comic MY ASS!!!). you think all these hoopla is because oldboy is "nonsense"? or could it be, in this case, your taste is just not as good as you want to believe? have you considered that?
i dont need to defend the movie's worth. it's all there to see, plainly. but if you choose to educate yourself, reading all the reviews praising the movie in RT is a good start. -
movies? I have a Korean girlfriend who has ensured that I watch them. And really they are often quite good. I really dont know why ive never seen oldboy though...
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Mar 14, 2009 9:36:44 AM CDT
And...come on dudes..dont fight! Just agree to diagree
by southafricanguy
Look asian cinema is nt for everyone. It can be an aquired taste for many Western film fans.
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with insane visuals mixed with really trippy concepts. And you get classicslike Akira, Ghost in the shell, neon genesis evangelion etc.
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adult content, and confusing narratives can be very off-putting to many Western film fans.
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no matter where they come from. kurosawa is japanese. truffaut is french. fellini is italian. wong kar wai is from hongkong. all these guys are genuine artists. there's no such thing as acquired taste. there are only bad movies and great movies. there's only enlightened viewer and uneducated but snobby viewer.
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if i hear good thing about the movie, i always try to locate it here. of the ones i've seen that i think are really really good - JSA, oldboy, shiri.
and it's been 3 years, and i'm still trying to locate 'memories of murder', and to no avail. -
i was just saying that for many they cant really get into the differences in movies from certain parts of the world because of stylistic or cultural differences
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HAV YOU SEEN THE HOST or 7 days? Both pretty good Korean movies. Personally I think the Koreans are making the best and most interesting film coming out of Asia. By the way, who the hell wants to remake oldboy?
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is jablowsky
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saw the host. loved it. but it's just not in the same league with the others mentioned. 7 days i have never heard of. will look it up. thx for the info. :)
oldboy will be remade by the most successful director in hollywood today, which so happen is also the biggest hack around in hollywood today, namely spielberg. and the biggest marquee name around, will smith, will star. i hope the project bombed before it even started. -
JSA and Shiri, those are perfectly servicible films. Not life changingly brilliant or inspirational, but fine solid entertainments yes. Days Of Glory was good too. I have The Host but am fearful of subjecting myself to more pain. Now the reason I sought out Oldboy and watched it at all IS becuase of it's steller reviews and good word of mouth. Sorry but I think alot of people drank the cool-aid on that one. I believe alot of people will dig anything strange and with subtitles to try and show their cultured superiority (not saying that's you, by the way). I do admit there are many very good films to come out of Asia, however Oldboy ain't one of 'em. But I tend to hate the shock value aesthetics that come into play specifically in Korean and Japanese horror and revenge fantasies. Sam Raimi is dead to me for continuing to remake such garbage (and for Spider-Man 3, of course). I keep hearing good things about Memories Of Murder, but quite frankly I'm very apprehensive about it, plus I have loads of other (better) films to watch first. Although much Japanamation is great, more often than not they're totally incomprehensible. I disdain "torture porn" with a passion, and dismiss it as the exploitational, sophomoric one-trick-pony that it is. Now if you actually have a point, a plot, characters that I can invest in then you aren't at risk at being lumped in with what I'm speaking about. Spielberg would't touch the story I witnessed in Oldboy with YOUR pocketbook, so if he's involved he must have alterer (superior) plans. I guarnantee Spielberg WILL NOT direct it. I also agree with you that the Oscars are vulgar little pageants of politically motivated superficiality. Indeed the Academy Awards are "pretentious" and "moronic". So are film festivals, especially Cannes. I still love ya though. "God bless Lucy". - Dr. Gonzo
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And A BitterSweet Life is great
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I think the word your looking for to describe OldBoy is kafkaesque
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Well i respect your tastes dude, if Asian cinema does nt work for you then it does nt. Personally I prefer Asian animation to live action film myself, I ve always been fascinated by Anime
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yikes!! dude.Spielberg is remaking it? Geez iv got to admit Spielberg is starting to get on a slippery slope. Im really loosing faith in him. After indy 4, which he is at least half responsible for, and the fact that he seems to mostly concentrate on things that ae already successful with built in fnbases
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man...first lucas now el spielbergo...
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Mar 14, 2009 11:27:52 PM CDT
man, im just hoping so desperatly that Cameron has not
by southafricanguy
lost his touch or senssibility like these two..
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Interesting, Kafka you say? Maybe. I'm guessing you mean that in a good way right? Never really even thought of Oldboy it in that context, I'd have to think awhile on that. But I still don't think it works, no matter what you call it. I'm not too deep into Kafka to be able to examine the validity of that comparison. Kafka's never interested me too much so I'm by no mean equipped to speak intellegenty on the subject. But I do love Orson Welles' The Trial. Now THAT'S a great movie, but then again I think that story may only seem great because of Welles' masterful direction. One thing I;m certain of however is that more people should be trying to pimp that movie instead of Oldboy.
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if Speilberg was directing.
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I would have farless faith in this project if Spielberg was directing
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,which no matter how you slice it, Spielberg was as responsible for as Lucas. I think Spielberg still has talent and good movies in him, as opposed to Lucas, but I think he has proven that he can no longer do the big summer type blockbuster
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Mar 15, 2009 3:00:13 AM CDT
And if he were directing Avatar, he would most likely
by southafricanguy
get David Koepp to write it, and his minimalist/unimagintive scriptwriting is one thing I want vry far away from Avatar, thank you. And if Spielberg directed it would be almost gauranteed that he would find a way to insert children into it, wether they need to be there or not (the lost world anyone) or he will tack on a schmaltzy ending to offset any darkness (war of the worlds anyone)
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Mar 15, 2009 3:01:14 AM CDT
and besides Spielberg would never do anything as risky as
by southafricanguy
Avatar anymore anyway...
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Are you looking forward to Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen?
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I agree with your points about The Lost World(I know gymnastics) and War of the Worlds(Great film with a terrible ending). However, I really enjoyed KOTCS. I feel all of the Indiana Jones films have a degree of silliness to them. As a representation of 50's B movies, I thought Crystal Skull worked quite well.
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i DONT knw dude, i really was so excited about indy 4. And I loved the off-beat begining that established the new time frame really well. Also loved Indy and the russkies in the area 51 warehouse. But from there it just never gelled for me.
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Mar 15, 2009 3:42:24 AM CDT
and i like all the previous indy movies..im not one of these guy
by southafricanguy
thinks only raiders was good. But kotcs was just too silly in comparison (the movie just jumped the shark completely when Shia swung on the vine with the monkeys). CGi was used badly (the action set piece in the jungle just looked bad, the ants looked fake, the ending was also fairly anti-climatic
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Mar 15, 2009 3:46:02 AM CDT
ANd indy hardly does anyhting...he is like a spectator
by southafricanguy
i his own movie..and lets not even get sarted with all the plot holes and lapses in logic. Oh...yeah lets notforget the infamous fridge scene
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Mar 15, 2009 3:47:18 AM CDT
I was just crushed by indy 4...wish i could have enjoyed it
by southafricanguy
like you did dude. Happy it worked for you..
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I will give you Shia and the monkeys. However, the fridge is the kind of over the top thing I enjoy from the Indy films. It is right there with the inflatable raft in Temple of Doom, exploding plane through tunnel in Crusade and the door that seems to take forever to close in the opening of Raiders. I could sit here and poke holes through all of them. The only one of them that has a climatic ending is Doom. It is the one where Indy actually affects the outcome.
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you are right about the fridge scene in regards to moments in the other films. I have a hard time putting my finger on it exactly, but the whole thing just did nt gel..
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TRAILER PLEASE.
PEOPLE ASK HERE FOR THE TRAILER
NO TRAILER MEANS MOVIE DOES NOT EXIST. -
Posting on a 'talkback' about about a movie "who cares about talk where is the trailer????" hilarious
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Are you fuckin serious dude, you really think no trailer means the movie does not exist?.....oookkay, anyway..moving on...
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i feel the same frustration, I would love a trailer now, but that being said...I love that its being kept so secret. That way its going to be even more of a suprise to the mainstream film audiance when the movie comes out.
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Mar 15, 2009 8:21:12 AM CDT
Thats how it used to be..thats part of the reason why Jurrasic p
by southafricanguy
, T2, and the 89 Batman were so damn impactful on film audiances when they came out. No internet to ruin all those movies suprises. (btw im not knocking the internet, i just miss some aspects of how it used to be, thats all...)
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I hope the trailer is way delayed and I hope I can resist watching it more than once... imagine going in cold to this one... eye balls not even slightly lubed...
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I am actually fucking impressed how they have been able to keep such a massive production so secret. There is almost nothing to give us any sense of this movie's tone/color palette/design asthetic etc...What do you think dude?
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Thanks for creating a genuine discusion, rather than a hate filled slanging match as they sometimes become on these TBs, I found all your reasons for disliking OldBoy to be spot on reasons, but they also seem to be the reasons I love Asian cinema, I'm not a very well travelled person, I've been all round Europe but thats still my own continent, with similar customs, I am amazed at how alien yet familiar these movies are sometimes, in the relationships and decisions the characters sometimes take, and as much as you think this is far fetched, think about it really, is it? Did you read about Fritzl and his family in the cellar? Have you heard about Fistulas rituals in the Congo performed by gangs on villagers(horrific, google with care) I know they are nothing like OldBoy at all, but the fact things like that do happen still amazes me, and makes you wonder what is going on unreported throughout our fucked up world.And I am not at all versed in the works of Kafka but someone described it to me once whilst discussing Brazil, another of my favorites, and I think it's a good way to describe alot of asian cinema.
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I also really like it when you can have an actualdiscussion here without things becoming a flame war. I really just like to talk about movies (particuarly sci-fi movies), im not interested in childish arguing (though iv let myself get drawn into it once before by accident) rather healthy debate
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of course I myself get drawn into them too, and credit goes to you to for this discusson also.
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saying about Asian cinema, i have been living in Japan and Korea for two years now and dude its just such a massive culture shock. But being in Asia, Asian film actually becomes kind of ordinary once you get used to the culture and mindset here
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dress and look like somehting out of anime, that you get used to it and it almost becomes nothing unuseal
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Do something positive for this year, Mr Rothman -- BRING TO THE MASSES THE AVATAR TRAILER AND WE WILL ALL BOW TO CAMERON GRANDEUR ! Or keep wasting time on trash like Wolverine. I don't care, Terminator is coming and at least, THEY HAVE SOME TRAILERS TO SHOW US !
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Would have saved them a big loss of money.
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I like to discuss and debate. Get others view points and tell them my own. Use reason. Try not to speak glibly or condescendingly. Admit by own bias or lack of knowledge. Consider what others have to say. If it comes down to a insult match, I'm gonna lose because I'm not proficient in that area. I don't make a habit of tearing people down and insulting them in my life, and I'd like not to start now just because I'm hidden behind a computer screen. It's not my thing and it's never interested me, although perhaps it would if I were excellent at it, but I'm not (thank goodness). I call myself "The_Genteel_Gentile" just as a reminder to myself to not get drawn in and lost in a screaming contest that I won't possibly be able to win. Don't get me wrong, I'm no saint, but there's nothing wrong with aiming high either. I mean because it just wouldn't make any since for a guy named "The_Genteel_Gentile" to be cursing everone out, swimming around in his own filth and vulgarity. You know it's like, I can't tell others how to eat but I can set the table accordingly. So yeah, that's the idea I try to follow. Hopefully I'll be able to hold true to that.
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Well I have to admit I've got a soft spot for Michael Bay. So I'll definitly be there. That said, Transformers is my least favorite of Bay's movies. I find, in all Michael Bay movies there are things to love but also things to hate. Transformers had more of the latter, for me. I just found the whole notion of the All-Spark and how it can turn a coke machine or a cell phone into a fully armed robot to be rediculous. Or the fact that they land on earth and can pretty much decide to be anything, but yet choose to stay a deisel truck while their enemies are flying around as jets makes no since. I'm of the opinion that the more fantastical a story is, the harder you need to work to ground it in a plausible reality. Still there was a some fun to be had and Michael Bay never skimps on cool looking specticle and putting the money up on the screen. So I appreciate that. But for me, Transformers isn't in the same league as something like Terminator.
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To me, Bay is the anti-Cameron. Cameron has a knack for making characters that you care for and action scenes that you can follow. IMHO, Bay can't do either. In fact, I was rooting for Ed Harris' characrter in The Rock and hated Connery and Cage. There is that chase scene through SF where Connery seemingly destroys half the city and endangers, who knows how many, people just to talk to his granddaughter. All the while, Bay's camera seems to have Parkinson's. Pearl Harbor is a cheap, garbage rip-off of Titanic. Bay is a commercial director, which is why the trailers for his films look so good. He should stay there.
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Yeah well, Bay IS a blatant plagiarist and has never learned the meaning of subtlety it would seem. He cannibalizes not only his own style over and over, but that style is really derived from Cameron, Tony Scott and Spielberg. Bay just takes their stuff and puts it on steriods, which CAN work and be pretty entertaing for certain types of stories, but it automatically defines him as being a vastly inferior filmmaker than those gentlemen. So when it comes to all out garantuan action with alot of slick visuals and rapid-fire humor, Bay's one of the better guys for the job. He has a distinct style but it's definitly not orignal and he's yet to show any versitlity. So it's always a bit of a love/hate thing with Bay. I do frequently enjoy him though.
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...through the eyes. Seriously, whoever came up with that got it bang on. I've avoided the scriptment but everything I have read makes me the most excited since Fellowship was limbering up nicely... I did a blog on Avatar in Jan 07 that sums it up for me back then... NOW it's the action, tone and SCALE that excites me.
http://tinyurl.com/4c9loj
Not my blog btw
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That I can since 97. I read almost everything. Apart from the odd thing this is the first thing I've posted on for fucking years (don't ask me why) generally the posts here are so good I don't feel the need to add anything, THIS ONE I'm onboard. I'm stoned.
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Yeah, im so there with you dude. I really think Avatar could be a real pop culture moment, and really significant to sci-fi.
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Mar 15, 2009 7:12:50 PM CDT
However i have read the scriptment..but that was several
by southafricanguy
years ago, and the reason was that at that time it did not seem that Avatar would ever be made. And while I think the story and some of the characterization in the scriptment is somewhat bare bones/one dimensional, the ideas, action scenes and imagery described have the potential to be amazing
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a scriptment and many changes will have been made (hopefully for the better, improve the scriptments weaknesses) in the final shooting script. Of course it also helps that the script has been written with Laeta Kalogordis, so new writer fresh ideas too...
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Yeah, im kind of in the same mindset. Im really no fan of Bay, and I think he has yet to actually get over his really bad tendencies from his time making commercials/music videos. I think he is good at spectacle though, but his action set pieces are never clearly laid out geographicly, and there is always an over use of shaky cam and close ups (s i get why many complain of not being able to follow what is going on in his action)
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he just glosses over story and characterization, it seems just like they are filler in between the next action scene lol
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I actually thought that transformers was his best movie so far (not necessarily saying much) i found it to be his most entertaining. And the trailer for tf2 does look huge in scale. So while Im dubious about numerous aspects of another Bay movie, it could be worth seeing just for the sheer spectacle of it.
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like? That trailer is pretty damn cool...
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Mar 15, 2009 7:29:02 PM CDT
"...word on the street is that Cameron got McG's blessing..."
by sal_bando
Film at 11.
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The trailers for Bay's films always look great. TF2 is no different. However, I am done with him. He is bringing back the silly military characters played by the guy from "Las Vegas" and John Turturro. ILM does a great job as always, but I will pass. Star Trek on the other hand has got me very pumped. I actually thought MI3 was the best of the series and I am a big "Lost" fan. The original Trek was always more interesting to me than "The Next Generation" and I am not a slavish Trekkie who cares about canon. The series needs this big budget update to stay relevant. So, I will be there.
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LOL dude, thats funny...
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yEAH IM RIGHT THERE with you dude, trek has also got me pumped. And I have also always greatly preferred the original. So seeing the costumes and look of tos in a big budget movie is just too cool
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Mar 15, 2009 7:59:56 PM CDT
and i think ilm are going to outdo themselves on both trek and
by southafricanguy
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i can understand anyone not wanting anything to do with Bay's movies...
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The Mummy movies are blatant clones of the Indiana Jones movies and the best thing in Van Helsing was the Alan Silvestri score(Love his work on The Abyss). The late great Jerry Goldsmith disliked The Mummy so much that he refused to score the second one. How often do you hear a composer turn down a film? Sommers is another hack in my view.
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I am happy to see that James Horner will be scoring Avatar. His last second work on Aliens still has some of the best action music ever written.
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Yeah, I really enjoyed Deep Rising, just a nice lightweight entertainment. The first Mummy was alot of fun. Huck Finn and Jungle Book weren't half bad for kids movies. That is before Iron Giant, Harry Potter and Pixar came on and restored kids movies to their former 80's Spilbergian magic. But man Mummy 2 and Van Helsing were pretty unbearible. Alan Silvestri was difinitly the one (and only) bright spot on either of those projects. The trailer for G.I. Joe looks like the end of Transformers, but before ILM put the robots in. I'll see it just due to the fact that I see everything, but my expectation are fairly low (hope I'm wrong).
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was blatantly ripping off big chunks from John Williams' Last Crusade. But it's still the only good thing to derive from that mess.
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Sommers did start out pretty good. I think Huck Finn is probably underrated. However, he has gotten progressively worse and worse. It is kind of like De Bont. Though Speed is better than anything that Sommers has done.
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I realize James Horner can be a bit like the Michael Bay of film scoring (plageristic, self cannibalizing and without any subtlety, but also majestically huge, epic and proficient). But man he completely RULED the scene from '89 to '97. In that paticular time span Horner was untouchable and did some of my all time favorite scores. Glory, Sneakers, Legends Of The Fall, Braveheart, Apollo 13, Courage Under Fire and Titanic. He's done some fine work since then (A Beautiful Mind, The New World, Apocalypto), but he's also done alot of redundant, heavily borrowed, uninspired work verging on self parody and outright theft (Windtalkers, The Missing, Radio, Troy...). I'm really holding out hope that Horner is able to channel some of that old magic and get burning on all cylinders again. Here's hoping Horner can put the heat on AVATAR, complimenting it with added demention, atmosphere, texture, emotion and resonance. I'm rooting for ya James!
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Let's not forget his great work on Star Trek II. I agree with the point about his self-plagerism. His Apollo 13, Braveheart and Titanic scores sound dramatically alike. Of course, all composers have a certain style that is evident in their work. Horner has worked over a year on this score and is utilizing the language of the Na'vi in it. Of course, sometimes too much time can create an overthought and overwrought mess. His Aliens score was written in a couple of weeks. So, we will see.
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Agree with you guys about Horner, am happy he is doing Avatar, but im also hoping he brings his A game. There have been recent interviews with him where he has said that he is really pushing himself with AvatAR and that the score will not be a traditional score. He is apparantly not useing a mostly symphonic score, but rather he is experimenting with electronic sounds and new production methods. I think that sounds really interesting, could be another classic score for him..
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Except for the "jumping the gap in the freeway" scene. I let it pass though because the rest of the film is so good. Speaking of...Can someone PLEASE put Mark Mancina to work! Seriously Mancina's scores for Speed, Bad Boys, Twister, Assassins and Con Air (w/ Trevor Rabin), freaking rocked! More than any other grievance, the biggest chip on my shoulder regarding Michael Bay, is that he fired Mancina off Bad Boys 2. His score for the first movie totally MADE that movie (and Bay's career).
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Yeah i agree that Sommers is actually kinda worse than Bay, actually I have never liked any of his movies, so my expectation for gijoe are low. I will see it because like you genteel gentile i also see everything (you cant have an opinion about something if you dont actually see it).
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Mar 15, 2009 9:49:21 PM CDT
southafricanguy - Cool, good news for Horner & AVATAR!
by the_genteel_gentile
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Mar 15, 2009 9:51:42 PM CDT
However i grew uip with gijoe and im really interested
by southafricanguy
in the fact that Larry Hama is involved. He really is responsible for creating the mythology of gijoe in the far superior marvel comic books than the shitty cartoon. And apparantly this movie is taking its cue more from Hama's comics...
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even shitty directors sometimes have one good movie in them i.e De Bont and Speed
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Mar 15, 2009 9:55:27 PM CDT
Dude you are so damn right about that score from bad boys
by southafricanguy
i fucking hate that movie, its just such a bad movie on so many levels, but that score was awsome. Yes! why the fuck does he not get more work? I really hope its not bcos Bay has tarnished his reputation in the industry (that shit happens in Hollywood)
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I'm jazzed to see it for sure. I used to be pretty big into Star Trek when I was a kid, my one complaint was essentially the same as Abrams', It's NOT Star Wars. Well, looks like JJ's took it upon himself to remedy that. I like Abrams. I thought he did a really nice job on Mission: Impossible III (a pretty impressive debut feature). Alias and Lost at least STARTED out fantastic under his guidance. Fringe is decent so far as well. And even though he didn't direct it, I really feel Cloverfield was brilliantly crafted and executed. One of my favorite films of last year, and I saw nearly everything and certainly everything of note. An unfairly bashed and misunderstood gem of a film. I'm not big on monster movies, which may be why I find Cloverfield to easily be the best of the bunch.
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It was just cool, and enteraining and Martin Lawrnce and Will Smith were a great comedic duo. Can't say the same thing for it's sequel, although it did have some extremely cool moments (but not enough to outweigh all the bad stuff). But I'm a bit of a Bay fan, as hard as it can be sometimes. I'll actually argue (please don't make me though) that Pearl Harbor's good stuff is enough to look past all it's ineptitude, because there's portions in there I really love (the planning, build up, attack, aftermath and FDR speech, doolittle capaign over tokyo, Zimmer's score, Schwartzman's glossy cinematography...basically anything that lends itself to montage because THAT is Bay's forte). I mean some of it completely misses the point, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't like alot of it anyway. I don't know, I guess I just admire the way Bay go's for it, full tilt boogie. The Rock is one of my favorite action films, too bad everything new and exciting visually in that film has been done to death since, which does sort of taint The Rock. Armegeddon was a ton of fun and features Trevor Rabin's one great score (not counting his colaberation with Mancina on Con Air), that's the kind of flick Michael Bay was born to make. The Island was good too, but I don't know why anyone should watch it when they could be watching THX1138. I'm not gonna talk anymore about Bay, because I don't want to start a nerd riot (everyone's already got their opinion anyway).
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Mar 15, 2009 10:54:27 PM CDT
I'm more interested in Thundercats than G.I. Joe.
by the_genteel_gentile
I wish Thundercats were being made big budget live-action with someone like Jackson, Verbinski or Emmerich at the helm. It could be so epic but I guess there's not a big enough audience to warrent such extavagance. Looking forward to seeing something from the animated film though, hopefully it's not complete garbage. I think someone like Antoine Fuqua or Simon West would have been better for G.I. Joe than Sommers, but I'm perfectly willing to be impressed.
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I can't get past the fact that Bay pretends that he is Norman Rockwell in all of his films. The random shots of Americana are almost as bad as his slo-mo dolly shots around his stars. Mancina, however, is a great composer.
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I'm a big Norman Rockell fan too. You say "jinoistic", I say "Iconic" (pOtaoes/pAtatoes). Don't get me wrong, he's nowhere near my favorite filmmaker, but I can't muster the kind of hate for the guy that seem so rampant in geek circles. I like eye candy.
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I have to kind of agree with you about the jingoism, and really as a non American, I really should point out that to foreign audiances it often comes acorss as extremely corny
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If I'm anything polically, it's an anarchist. I believe patriotism is a disease. But what are we talking about here, their just some dumb fun popcorn entertainments, which pretty much religates it to being apolitical in truth.
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Seriously?! you prefer bb 1, geez dude i sont know how, the editing is like a music video (you pretty much have to have add to keep up) the acting is over the top, the action scenes are almost incomprehensible, and story is thinner than a post it note. bb2 has better action scenes, more scope, and a marginally better story imho
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Mar 15, 2009 11:13:15 PM CDT
southafricanguy - But Americans Kick @ss & take names!
by the_genteel_gentile
Kidding.
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laughed off the screen, there are just some things that work live action while other things should be left in thier original media. Gijoe has a relatively real world setting, and its basically about the militatry and terrorists, so you can place it in a real world setting and make it work. Transformers just squeaks by in not being completely ridiculous because of the slightly tounge in cheek tone, and the redesigns (please dont kill me G1 fans..lol)But I think thundercats would end up like masters of the universe, ultimatly too silly imho...
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Mar 15, 2009 11:18:10 PM CDT
Also i agree with your apolitical stance. I think people
by southafricanguy
often read way too much politics into summer popcorn movies. But Bay's particular brand of Americana really does come across as damn corny to non-American audiances
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Mar 15, 2009 11:21:07 PM CDT
There are ways to do Americana well..think Spielberg
by southafricanguy
or Mann. They show America for its flaws and strenghs, and do so in a way that the audiance wants to go with it, as opposed to the way Bay rams it down our throats. A reason why many non-American movie fans actually find Bay's movies offensive..
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I like the music video asthetics for a picture like that. I DO have ADD. The jokes are way funnier in BB1 due to the fact that most of it was improvised. I've never thought myself lost in an Michael Bay action scene until I saw Transformers. You say "thinner" I say say "less convoluted" (Who needs intricacy? STREAMLINE that thing!). BB2 has at least three too many action set pieces, one of which, beyond just being ridiculous, is totally plagerized straight out of Jackie Chan's Police Story (it's the shanty-town scene). "Oh, it's all good THESE are the drug dealer's shacks!" Although as I mentioned before, I thought there were some extremely cool moments. But no Mark Mancina is a deal-breaker.
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Have you read the old Avatar scriptment (sorry if I have asked you this before, i just cant remember)
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Mar 15, 2009 11:28:20 PM CDT
Yeah genteel, i agree about the ripoff from police story
by southafricanguy
but thats Bay for you anyway, he really only does copy from other, and much better, film makers. And you do have a point, the action in Transformers can be hard to follow, just too many close ups and shaky cam. But the fx were great, and i just really enjoyed seeing the transformers in live action, even though only really Optimus Prime, an to a lesser degree Bumblebee, works as anything resembling a character
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Mar 15, 2009 11:29:59 PM CDT
But dude you can not defend Pearl Harbour, im sorry but that mov
by southafricanguy
abomination....
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No... I have tried to avoid reading it. I like to go in with as much mystery as possible. That is why I like the surprising lack of hype surrounding a Cameron film. In this day and age, when we know everything about a film before going in, I am happy that so little has been leaked. I am looking forward to seeing the teaser trailer and then I prefer to go in with a blank slate.
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That is the one with the highway chase and the car carrier. I saw it and barely remember anything about it except that scene. That was a pretty good action set piece. However, that came out in the summer of car chases... and I still thought that was worse than the one in T3 and The Matrix Reloaded and The Bourne Supremacy.
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If Verbibnski, John Knoll & ILM can pull off Davy Jones. And if Cameron can do half what he says for AVATAR, then Thundercats could certainly work as a grand, epic, fantasy. I'm thinking LOTR, Conan, Stargate, POTApes all as touchstones. I don't think you need to be dogmatically faithful either, do what's right for it to work as a film (that's what Transformers got wrong).
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Mar 15, 2009 11:44:03 PM CDT
Bay did THAT freeway chase scene better in The Island.
by the_genteel_gentile
I likes his BB2 scene better than Matrix Reloaded's (cartoon). T3's was decent but it's hard to beat Bay in a balls out frenetic action scene. I mean that's his bread & butter. The Bourne films have a whole other, more realistic vibe (which I did). Okay, I promise NO MORE Bay talk.
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McG and Stephen Sommers are both going to exceed expectations. You couldn't possibly imagive how it pains to devulge this.
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I give a 50-50 chance that Salvation will be pretty good. I give a 0.0000001-100 chance that G.I. Joe will not suck.
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Fair enough dude. In that sense you are doing the right thing. because im damn sure that Avatar is going to come out of nowhere for the main stream movie audiance and blow them away in a way that we have nt seen since Jurrasic park, T2, 89 Batman. And a big part of that will be due to how secret they have managed to keep it. Shit still not one authentic piece of cincept art, a scene from the movie,,,nothing! How do you think they've done this imagin78?
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in terms of doing what it had to to work as a live action film? Im interested in your thoughts. I actually thought thats what Bay got right...kind of.
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a redesign was needed. And I think trying to give it a sense of reality, and (again please dont kill me G1 fans) the focus on humans to act as a gateway for movie audiances that had no idea what the fuck transformers was
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changes to the mythology
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I largely agree with you, but im willing to give mcg a chance bcos the trailer for t4 does look good, so he may just suprise everyone. But gijoe directed by Sommers is what i expect to be the biggest trainwreck and geek flashpoint this Year lol
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I have to believe that the 3-D process is making it hard for footage to get leaked. I also think that since Cameron is truly working with the best in their fields(Weta, Stan Winston etc.), they want this to be special and not cheapen it.
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yEAH i THINK you make some really good points. I think that also there must be some serious non-disclosure agreements signed by everybody..from the fx guys down to the janiter lol
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Mar 16, 2009 1:43:45 AM CDT
And filming partly in New Zealand (given its remoteness)
by southafricanguy
has also probably helped. BTW, what is your favourite Cameron movie? And what other sci-fi directors do you like? Obviously you are no fan of Bays sci-fi lol..
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Aliens is not only my favorite Cameron film, it is my favorite film period. Even though most people think The Godfather Part II and Empire are better sequels, I think Aliens had the harder job. Coppola and Kirshner had rich tapestries to extend their story from. Cameron had a bare bones movie that was basically "Halloween-in-space" to continue from. Of course, Alien is a terrific film but there is not a lot to work with when it comes to sequel. Yet, Cameron took it and enriched that world with such depth and creativity. It has horror, drama, action, comedy, sci-fi, plus it is a great analogy of corporate greed and Vietnam. All I have to say is thank God Ridley Scott cut out that scene with Dallas(even though it is a great scene) or we might not have had it.
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I think Verhoevan has made some great sci-fi. Robocop, Total Recall and Starship Troopers are all great sci-fi and action films. Robocop is a great example of a terrific film with lousy sequels. Spielberg has made Close Encounters, E.T., A.I., Minority Report and War of the Worlds. I think they are all tremendous to very good films. The first two are pretty much masterpieces. I have a personal fondness for A.I. even though it should have ended with Haley staring at the underwater Blue Fairy. Minority Report and WOTW are great films until the forced happy endings. Kubrick made two great ones in 2001 and Clockwork, as well as developing A.I. I love the Back to the Future films and think Zemeckis' Contact is a bit underrated. Even though Alien 3 is disappointing, I would love Fincher to make his long gestating Rama film. There are probably others, I just can't think of them right now.
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add the matrix trilogy (which i personally feel is very underrated and somewhat unfairly dismissed these days.
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I really like akira, ghost in the shell, patlabor, and Robotech.
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Mar 16, 2009 4:42:46 AM CDT
I think thats a big part of the reason why im so damn
by southafricanguy
excited about Avatar imagin 78. There are so many anime concepts and imagery in the old scriptment. In many ways the scriptment reads like a sci-fi Mizyaki film.
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Mar 16, 2009 4:42:50 AM CDT
I think thats a big part of the reason why im so damn
by southafricanguy
excited about Avatar imagin 78. There are so many anime concepts and imagery in the old scriptment. In many ways the scriptment reads like a sci-fi Mizyaki film.
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Mar 16, 2009 4:42:51 AM CDT
I think thats a big part of the reason why im so damn
by southafricanguy
excited about Avatar imagin 78. There are so many anime concepts and imagery in the old scriptment. In many ways the scriptment reads like a sci-fi Mizyaki film.
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Mar 16, 2009 4:42:55 AM CDT
I think thats a big part of the reason why im so damn
by southafricanguy
excited about Avatar imagin 78. There are so many anime concepts and imagery in the old scriptment. In many ways the scriptment reads like a sci-fi Mizyaki film.
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laptop...
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Do you really think the frreway chase in The Island is better than the one in bb2 or the matrix reloaded? If so why?
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Been away on holiday, been enjoying catching up. Gentile is spot on about Dances With Wolves, a beautiful movie. And I still can't believe we're getting a new sci-fi from Iron Jim this year. Happy days indeed. How much did Watchmen suck though? Wow. I was bored senseless after about 20 minutes. And Malin Akerman may have given the worst screen performance of all time. I bet the fanboys aren't happy...
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Couldn't give a fuck how bored you were - I loved it! Nothing stopping you from making your own Watchmen movie though - oh, wait -there's that whole you-not-being- in-the-movie-business thing. There there.
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Bit harsh mate. Good passion though!
That fact that people talk about Studio Ghibli in relation to the AVATAR story is extra fucking amazing. I might put some money on it beating Dark Knight at the box office... haha
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go die assface
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for any flaming, we have all been having a really cool movie discussion here. So Kwishaderach (or however you fucking spell it) did nt like Watchmen, no big deal, does nt change your enjoyment does it?
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Most people could have made a better Watchmen movie than Zack Snyder. Glad you enjoyed it though. It was just completely bland to me.
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malfunctionin life you dumb fuck shit? Im sorry..but i missed the par twhere i insulted you or anal raped your mother to deserve your super unpleasant bullshit on this talkback. Why dont you just go grow the fuck up you child..
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Hey dude, welcome back. Yeah i know how cool is it that we are getting a new Cameron sci-fi action movie (and his most epic and ambitious ever to boot)? not to mention what looks like an awsome Star Trek movie.
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fuck my eyeballs!!!
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Thats whats so potentially exciting about Avatar my friend, if Weta and Digital Domain (with some help from Stan Winston studios) can really pul this off and produce truly photo realistic effects, we could get the closest thing to a live action Miziyaki film...
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why dont you continue raping babies and leave us alone shithead.
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I hav enot yet seen Watchmen, and i am not familiar with the source material, thus iv not really been interested in it. But I do like superhero adaptation when done really well (ala the Dark Knight). So how would you compare it? And is it worth going to see?
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Mar 16, 2009 8:28:26 AM CDT
seriously, what the fuck is this 10 year old's problem
by southafricanguy
(i cant believe you are any older, if you are thats fucking scary *shudder*)Have you gotten me confused with somone else? If so thats understandable as at your age your brain is still developing...
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Have you read the old Avatar scriptment? If so what did you like/dislike about it. And what part of it are you most interested in seeing on screen?
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...giving a fuck
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Mar 16, 2009 9:57:37 AM CDT
Well, whats the other option...spill a lot far in advance
by southafricanguy
and hype the shit out of it in the media until everyone is sick of it?
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Mar 16, 2009 9:59:41 AM CDT
Think back to the MAtrix dude, it cam eout of nowhere
by southafricanguy
the mainstream wasnt expecting that movie at all. And it blew them away. They were clever to show and reveal little. They let TPM get hyped to shit in the media and look what happened
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with his tactic of keeping it all secret, and then dropping it when no ones the wiser. In the meantime they can hype the shit out Transformers 2/gijoe etc...and you just know that those movies have to deliver in a big way to be seen as anything more than dumb mindless popcorn movies..
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is the greatest story ever told
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Watchmen is in the league of all these movies: Alien, Aliens, Terminator 1&2, Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back, Back to the Future 1; Blade Runner; Raiders of the Lost Ark; Matrix 1; TDK; Superman 1&2.
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and diox stop being a dick or there will be no more pussy juice for you.
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And one of the best films of any type ever made period. I dread the rumored live action version.
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you continue to amaze and confound me. AKIRA is most likely my favourite, Movie, Album, and Book (and that thing IS a book) I remain hopefull for the remake, Rauri Robison's short Silent City(?) is impressive, thats if he's still involved, and moving it to a Tokyoised Neo-Manhattan is the only way I could ever percieve opening it up to the West, as long as MOST of the main players remain Japanese,
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Mar 16, 2009 2:18:17 PM CDT
imagin78 - I totally agree with all your sci-fi picks
by the_genteel_gentile
I'd add Gattica, Dark City, Blade Runner, Terminator 1&2, 12 Monkeys, THX1138, Jurassic Park, Strange Days, Matrix (first movie ONLY) and The Abyss: Directors's Cut (probably MY favorite Cameron film). Love Spielberg & Verhoeven sci-fi, love BTTF trilogy, love Alien quadrilogy (even Ressurection). Contact is great, my only greavance would be the Bill Clinton thing (bad idea, dating the movie), but aside from that, a really thoughful and brilliant film. I've got mad love for A.I., I think alot of people misinterpret the ending. I think thats where the film really got dark and interesting, and where I really see Kubrick shinning through. In truth it's the complete opposite of the shinny happy ending most seem to think it is. 2001 is the film that all other sci-fi are judged against, and will likely never be rivaled. That said I do like 2010 from Peter Hyams alot, as well as his Outland. I really like Open Your Eyes/Vanilla Sky too. I've all but given up hope for Rondevouz With Rama, I really wish Fincher had been doing THAT instead of waisting his talents on an inferior remake of Forrest Gump. I mean Benjamin Button was good but I've already seen Gump (and love it). Children Of Men is quite good but overrated for me, because there's never a clear idea of what the reasons and objectives are or what the "Human Experiment" is exactly. I'll through one more out there; John Carpenter's They Live, come on you gotta love it. Have you seen Blindness? I thought that was DECENT!
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I, like Southafricanguy, like the whole Matrix trilogy. The second one is a bit hit-and-miss but Revolutions is as close as I have seen to live-action anime. I adore Children of Men. My position is... it doesn't matter what the experiment is. That world is fucked and they are clinging to any shread of hope. I like the ambiguity of it. Love Open Your Eyes, can't muster much love for Vanilla Sky. I don't think Crowe's heart was in it. They Live is great and so is Carpenter's The Thing. Haven't seen Meirelles' Blindness, yet. Good points on Contact and A.I.. I adore A.I. and think it is Spielberg's most underrated and misunderstood film. I love the idea of one director channeling another. It reminds me of Todd Haynes' Far From Heaven.
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Both are simply amazing. Especially the soundtrack. I bought that thing in '88 and its still in heavy rotation. Easily one of the greatest soundtracks ever recorded. The Manga, likewise, is one of the greatest comics ever created.
Don't be confounded by me, we have remarkably similar tastes it would seem except for the fact that I hated T2 and think Jim "Diminishing Returns" Cameron is overrated -- he's cool in terms of being a technical innovator, sure, but even that honor is something he earned like 20 years ago.
Of course, if AVATAR turns out to be awesome, I will gladly, and ostentatiously eat my own words for all to see and mock me. -
It's just a black screen, then, in big white letters the word AVATAR flashes three times while an announcer yells "AVATAR, AVATAR, AVATAAARRR!"
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I think Bay & co. should have completely thrown out all the mythology of Transformers especially the afore mentioned All-Spark, and instead made it work for a reality based film. But I was never into Transformers much anyway. I prefer the Island's version of the same freeway chase sequence in BB2, beacuse it's shorter, tighter, more concise, more precise, less jokey and just overall better paced and executed, specifically from an FX standpoint. But I dig the scene in BB2 also. Matrix Reloaded's car chase relied far to heavily on CG environments, vehicles, and stunt avatars. Plus I hated those Dr. Suess' Thing One & Thing Two albino dreadlocked guys straight out of Cat In The Hat. And I don't believe the Watchowski's know the proper way to utilize slo-mo or how to effectively pace an action sequence. Slo-mo should be used to give a moment added resonance but action should be frenetic and rapid. I think the scene would have been awesome if it used less FX and went at a breakneck speed with complete chaotic destruction happening right before your eyes instead of a bunch of slowed down John Woo aping bellet. Except John Woo has a much better understanding of how to use slow-mo and if he had done it, it would have been superior. I think Bay excells at knowing how to use slo-mo. I think Cameron, Gibson, Zwick, Jackson and Ron Howard are the masters of proper use of the slow-motion technique. Emmerich doesn't apply it too bad either. Because they know it about expanding the emotion and significance of a moment, not making volience look pretty. Now seriously ENOUGH with all thing's Bay related.
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They should have just gotten the essential from Reloaded and Revolution and made one great film from it. They spread it too thin.
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Agreed sir, and off course I am apprehensive about AVATAR, I have the scriptment, I loved it and hope the movie's as good, And not just because of the 3D or the effects, I think the DVD/BluRay release of this movie will be interesting
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Mar 16, 2009 3:13:22 PM CDT
southafricanguy - Also the freeway scene in Reloaded
by the_genteel_gentile
had that whole fighting atop the semi-truck thing and horrible techno music. I don't know if it's sorce music or Don Davis' score, but it's pretty bad. I believe I metion previosly about Mancina and great action fim scoring. And I like Don Davis, although I do think his great orchestral bits in the Matrix scores borrow heavily from some of Howard Shore's style.
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**NEED AN EDIT FEATURE** Sorry.
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You are insanely knowledgeable abour scores. I like to think I really know my movies but I rarely remember who scores them... hats off, it's nuts.
Need to watch Akira again.
NB. What's a good pacy John Carpenter/Goblin type score to DJ with?
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The Matrix was pushed by the fanbase entirely. I can't recall reading one positive review prior to watching the film for myself. The critics were truly dismayed by the character Morpheus. Implying that he ruined the movie with his techno psychobable. So to say it was a mainstream success isn't quite accurate. More like an underground success.
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Generally
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the Morweyn/alien in it seems to have been designed by someone who has read the Avatar scriptment. Has anyone noticed this?
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Mar 16, 2009 7:38:51 PM CDT
LightninBolt - "a pacy Carpenter/Goblin type to DJ with?"
by the_genteel_gentile
Not sure. Hmmm, well I'll give it a shot. From Goblin, maybe something off of Profondo Rosso (1975), Amo Non Amo (1979) or Patrick (1978). I'd go with They Live (1988) or Escape From New York (1981) from Carpenter. Halloween's always a wiiner too. Maybe try some Last Man Standing (1996) from Ry Cooder. Vince DiCola's score for Rocky IV (1985). Or if you really wanna tear the roof off, lay down some Harold Falermeyer The Running Man (1987), Fletch (1985) or Tango & Cash (1989). But I'm not really sure what you're looking for. Oh well, I tried cousin.
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Mar 16, 2009 8:00:09 PM CDT
Well could not agree more with everybody about how great
by southafricanguy
Akira, i dont think it should be remade in any form. Just leave it alone..
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you make some really good points about the freeway chases..i bow to your superior analysis..and no more Bay discussion lol
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Yeah i had noticed that, and i think that this is another reason why Avatar is being kept so secret.
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Mar 16, 2009 8:03:20 PM CDT
LightninBolt - that's Harold FalTermeyer (forgot the 'T')
by the_genteel_gentile
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So since you have read the scriptment dude, what are your favourite aspects of it? What do you like/dislike about it? What are you most looking forward to seeing on screen
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you knoiw dude even though we completely disagree about Cameron, thats the reason why many of us are excited about Avatar, not becos of the technology, or the obnoxious fan hype created on this site. But because the scriptment is so anime influenced. So if, like me you are a big fan of Akira, Miziyaki, Patlabor etc.., this could be the closest thing to live action anime we may ever get..
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Rocking back & forth, twittling thumbs with head cocked and eyes down a flustered pink blush comes over my face, my eyes flutter back up and as our gazes meet...(que the music). Compliments will get you EVERYWHERE. Me likey.
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Damn, copied and pasted the WRONG name for my previous man love. Will you ever forgive me southafricanguy. LightninBolt, sorry for bringing you into such an awkward equation, but I got love for you too, there plenty to go around (weird slow closer on one eyelid so as to not be able to discern if you're being winked at or if I just had an aneurism...oh no, my left side just went numb. NINE! ONE! WAAa...).
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GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS!! THIS MAN WAS BORN TO MAKE MANY MANY MOVIES OF BIG ROBOTS HITTING EACH OTHER AND WATCHING THINGS GO BOOOOOOOM!!!! yOU CANNOT ASK FOR MORE THAN THAT.
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And such great line-readings as "So are you like some kind of an alien or something---?!" That gal's got a Bod but she's gonna be doing Manimal direct to DVD movies within 8 years.
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both you guys (LightninBolt & southafricanguy) paid me a nice compliment. So I can play coy and flirty with the each of ya. Much love and thanks (I know a thing or two 'bout a thing or two). You all aren't to shabby yourselves.
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agreed on Outlander by the way, I mean it was only a matter of time before someone mixed the deep sea luminous aspect to land based aliens but it does seem a little to close to the manticore? alien described in the scriptment, It was a while back I read it but the things stuck in my head are things like the first trek with the Avatar bodies in to the jungle, the dropships and weapons and the mecha, the 'nam like bit where the idiot is shooting at direhorses? and Sigourneys character Grace? tears him a new one, the Hallelujah Mountains sound awesome, the viperwolves "looking like something drawn by francis bacon", The alien thats head detaches, all the crazy ass plantlife, in fact I don't think I finished it just in case it ended up being to close to the finished movie, I think I got up to the well of souls or something?Anyway I loved it, and I can't see any self respecting sci-fi fan not enjoying it, the story was not a mind blowing phillisophical piece, but its good and the thing that sticks most was the images and that Pandora was fucking scary and dangerous as hell.
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Mar 16, 2009 10:04:54 PM CDT
LightninBolt - in regard to useless knowledge about composers
by the_genteel_gentile
Yeah alot of good it does me to be a film aficionado though. If I try and evoke the names of directors, composers, cinematographers, editors or production designers outside in the 'real world', I get the Keenan Thompson "Woopie eyes" (from SNL's View). You're the only folks I can let my full nerd out with and have a glimmer of hope of being understood (Sad ain't it?). I mean you can't just go around in your day to day life and drop Thin Red Line quotes on people, without them making a face like they smell something. Ah well.
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Is that the one with the trees and the poems and the war :)
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Yeah you are forgiven dude lol. Well I actually think composers are damn important to how good a movie can be imho. thier contributions should never be overlooked
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why yes it is, that is indeed a pretty good description of the thin red line
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yeah those are many of the thing aI cant wiat to see either dude. But mostly the last third which is just a series of epic action set pieces that should be mindblowing if done right
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Mar 16, 2009 11:11:39 PM CDT
And the floating mountains should be pretty damn cool too
by southafricanguy
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Mar 16, 2009 11:13:30 PM CDT
But im not worried about somthing like outlander stealing
by southafricanguy
ideas. Cameron has some of the best conceptual designers and artists working on Avatar. And thats besides himself and Stan Winston. (jordu schell, wayne barlow etc
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No one... I repeat, no one does better action climaxes like Cameron. Every time you think he has outdone himself, he tacks on another amazing climactic scene. The ending to Aliens is about 45 minutes. Aliens enter the compound, Marines retreat, Newt is abducted, Ripley arms herself, Ripley infiltrates the hive, burns hive, runs away from Queen, returns to Sulaco, and THEN the fight with the Queen in the Power Loader. There is hardly a second to catch your breath. He is a master. The same is true for all his films. One thing I know, the ending for Avatar will ROCK.
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Exactly my friend, no-one can build and build a climax like Cameron. N-one can direct sustained dramatic action like him, and it never becomes boring. And that is the end of Avatar, just builds and builds
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Mar 16, 2009 11:25:12 PM CDT
You are right that no-one can do climaxes like Cameron
by southafricanguy
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Mar 16, 2009 11:25:44 PM CDT
And the ending of Avatar will rock to an insane degree
by southafricanguy
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"Property. The whole fucking thing's about property." "We're living in a world that's blown itself to hell as fast as everybody can arrange it. In a situation like that all a man can do is shut his eyes and let nothing touch him. Look out for himself.
I might be the best friend you ever had. You don't even know it." "It's not necessary for you to ever tell me you think I'm right. We'll assume it." "You see, In this world, a man, himself, is nothin. And there ain't no world but this one." "What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power but two?" "I heard people talk about immortality, but I ain't seen it." "Are you righteous? Kind? Does your confidence lie in this? Are you loved by all? Know that I was, too. Do you imagine your suffering will be any less because you loved goodness and truth?" "I can take anything you dish out, I'm twice the man that you are." "What difference do you think you can make, one man in all this madness?" "This great evil. Where does it come from? How'd it steal into the world? What seed, what root did it grow from? Who's doin' this? Who's killin' us? Robbing us of life and light. Mockin' us with the sight of what we might've known. Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too? Have you passed to this night?" "Maybe all men got one big soul everybody's a part of, all faces are the same man" "Everythings a lie. Everything you hear, everything you see. So much to spew out. They just keep coming, one after another. You're in a box. A moving box. They want you dead, or in their lie... There's only one thing a man can do; find something that's his, and make an island for himself." "I seen another world. Sometimes I think it was just my imagination." "I'm dyin', slow as a tree." "Why should I be afraid to die? I belong to you. If I go first, I'll wait for you there, on the other side of the dark waters. Be with me now." If I never meet you in this life, let me feel the lack; a glance from your eyes, and my life will be yours." "'Cause that's where it's hidden. the immortality I hadn't seen." "Oh, my soul, let me be in you now. Look out through my eyes, look out at the things you've made. All things shining." -
are you a Malick fan by any chance?
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of a very lenghty piece of dialouge perhaps...
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I had an Irish girfriend 2 years ago, GAS. Je ben een lul SAguy
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is JY VAN SUID AFRIKA AFF? Sorry dude but i cant read your Afrikaans. What is with everyone that has had a Sa girlfriend? I guess sa girls really get around lol
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Mar 17, 2009 2:25:14 AM CDT
And if it matters i currently have a Korean girlfriend...
by southafricanguy
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I haven't paid to see a movie for 10 years, I can't complain about quality. Just as long as I'm not driven to switch off then it will do.
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I haven't read the Avatar scriptment, I want to go in fresh and unspoiled to see it. All I know is the basic storyline and that there is something called the Hallelujah Mountains in it somewhere. But I just can't wait to see Cameron come back and reclaim his mantle as King of the action directors (and, of course, of the world). Cameron's comments about directing action on the T2 commentary are absolutely spot on. If anybody hasn't listened to that commentary go listen now, its a masterclass.
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Mar 17, 2009 8:25:29 AM CDT
Ok fair enough dude. I read it long ago when it seeme dit would
by southafricanguy
But you are right my friend listening to Cameron speak is an education in action film making. No body can frame the geography of an action scene like him, and he gets 100% how the action should be an extension of emotion or further the story or characters..
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you already know about the mountains they are giant mountains that float in the sky and crash against each other making loud thunder like sounds. Dont worry Cameron makes it sound completely plausible.
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Sounds cool. Cameron coming up with an alien eco-system will be the business. Your comments are spot on about Cameron's action sequences furthering the story and characters. There is always a reason for them, unlike most other action films where the story just stops for a fight or a chase.
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But of course, this site doesn't care and doesn't post the news -- all they care about is cashing their Watchmen paycheck. SHE WILL BE BACK !
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sorry then dude, hope I didn't spoil anything. Also I can't wait for BATTLE ANGEL ALITA, only read a couple of the earlier comics and some of the later ones where she's in the Speedball/Rollerball type sport and it was awesome, I hope some of that is in the movie, the artwork and interview on Marketsaw was great, thanks for posting that in another thread the other day by the way southafricanguy and that POV sequance in AVATAR sounds INSANE.
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and that pov sequance could be so damn cool...think the opening scene of Strange Days
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Trying to keep the Avatar thread in the top ten? Maybe we should hijack another thread. How about the TinTin one?
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Mar 18, 2009 7:31:11 PM CDT
southafricanguy - To quote Terence Howard in Iron Man:
by the_genteel_gentile
"Next time baby!" Although there isn't gonna be a next time for Howard (Don Cheadle) soooo....nevermind. Hopefully the next AVATAR thread will be more popular though, and we'll actually have something to discuss (finger's crossed). See You in the future.
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