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Capone soldiers on with Gary Sinise and Iraq War doc BROTHERS IN WAR director Jake Rademacher!!!
Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
There's a special documentary called BROTHERS IN WAR opening on March 13 in a few markets (Columbus, GA; Fayetteville, NC; Jacksonville, NC; Washington, D.C.; and Chicago) and then expanding to 20 more markets on March 27. I think that every American--no matter how you feel about the Iraq War or those who fight in it--needs to see. The film chronicles filmmaker Jake Rademacher's journey to understand his two brothers, Joe and Isaac, both of whom are serving in the Middle East. As kids, these three were extremely close but as they grew older and chose different paths in life, they grew distant. Jake believes that part of the divide has to do with the fact that he can't relate to the experiences his brothers have gone through serving in the military, and he sets out to close the divide the only way he knows how. But taking a small camera crew with him to Iraq and seeing that things are like. His first trip was a bit of a let down and he didn't really see the sorts of things that change a soldier's outlook on life and death, so Jake returned to imbed himself with a group of soldiers who were seeing action on a routine basis.
The film was more or less complete by the time Gary Sinise signed on as an executive producer, but since he aligned himself with the film, he's made every effort to promote it every way possible. And this extraordinary film tackles what's going on in Iraq as well as the emotional struggle these men have when they return home.
I'll admit the idea of me sitting down with Sinise, the King of the Hollywood Republicans, was a bit daunting. But the truth is, I've loved his work as an actor both on film and in theater for decades. The very first professional play I ever attended was in high school, and Sinise was in it. In fact, he spit blood on my shoes (more on that later). And the first Broadway show I ever saw also featured Sinise in the Tony Award-winning "The Grapes of Wrath." As a co-founder of Steppenwolf Theatre Company, Sinise is a Chicago institution, and when he comes to town, the city is abuzz. He's also played more than a few iconic characters in screen history. Hell, you could take just the films he's made with Tom Hanks--FORREST GUMP, APOLLO 13, and THE GREEN MILE--and have yourself a nice little film festival. His TV work is also nothing to sneeze at--"The Stand," "Truman," and his unforgettable portrayal in "George Wallace," not to mention playing Det. Mac Taylor for five seasons of "CSI: NY."
But it is Sinise's commitment to promoting veterans' rights, supporting and visiting troops as part of the USO program, and creating Operation Iraqi Children that in December 2008 earned him the United States of America Presidential Citizens Medal, one of the highest honors the President can give a civilian, second only to the Presidential Medal of Freedom. This is the Gary Sinise that I sat down with. He has quite a bit to say about the way the media has portrayed soldiers in recent year, especially in light of Abu Ghraib, and he doesn't really hold back. He's a passionate man, who also is incredibly personable. We did a pretty good job keeping politics out of the discussion, although the current administration did come up.
Joining us for our conversation was filmmaker Jake Rademacher. In fact, I was the first journalist of the day for both men, and since I arrived a little early, I was marched right into the meeting room where Jake was waiting for Gary. So I just started asking questions of Jake before Gary made it to the room. Enjoy this conversation about war, soldiering, and the bond of family.
Capone: The President just announced yesterday a pullout deadline for Iraq. How does your family feel about that?
Jake Rademacher: Well, I believe there was a timetable to start drawing down anyway. So I think he's going along the lines of what the timetable is. It sounds like the timetable he's proposing is a little bit quicker than the military wanted to do, but it's a little longer than the one he wanted to do when he was a candidate running for office. I think part of that comes from, it's different when you're sitting there in front of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and all the generals, and the security of the entire world is in your hands, I think things start to change a little bit.
Capone: And when the reality of pulling that many people out of a single location.
JR: Right. I'm told you're given two briefs as a president--one the day your are elected and a second, more thorough one the day that you take office. And I think those briefs about what's actually going on in the world tend to have a significant impact on someone. All of the sudden, you are the Commander and Chief. You are in charge of 3 million service members. And the safety of 300 million people in the United States is in your hands, and the security of the entire world--because we are the only superpower that is right now--and the decision you make have ramifications that are far reaching. You also have a whole team of professionals who have over 30 years of their life dedicated to this informing you of what their perspective is on this. And this is what they've dedicated their lives to studying and understanding. All of the sudden, you're having those one-on-one conversations or committee meetings, and I can see a change in Obama, even in the time he's been president. I don't know if other people see that.
Capone: I see him withdrawing and slightly less accessible than he was as a candidate. He's locking in that CEO mode.
JR: Which is good.
Capone: The mark of any great film, whether it be a documentary or a feature, is that you really want to know where these people are now, since we leave them at the end of the film. Where are your brothers now, what are they up to? And your family has seen the film now. What do they think of it?
JR: That's a great question. That one of the values of the film is that it jumps right into the middle of real people's lives in the middle of doing something really extraordinary in their lives. We're all going through that, all military families are going through that. And then the film ends, but the lives continue. I would say that where we are at the end of the film is where we're still at. Isaac and I are very close; we saw each other last Friday at the National Press Club screening. He's going to get promoted to Major on Monday. Joe is currently an instructor in sniper school. He's going to Afghanistan and come back, so he returns in April of this year from his third deployment. Isaac just got back from his fourth deployment. My relationship with Joe is in a whole new place because I made the movie. You see in the film a critical moment in our relationship as brothers. We almost had more conflict in the middle of the film than when I started it.
Capone: That's true. It's uncomfortably awkward, and you want to avert your eyes because it's such personal family business. So now it's better?
JR: Now it's better. He's seen that I've gotten shot at and IED'd [improvised explosive device] in some of the ways he's had to do. There's still a distance there in some ways between us, but we're closer as well. It's funny, relationships really are a fluid thing. You evolve over time and learn that you have to understand them more and hope that they understand you more as well. I understand Joe in a whole new way, having been to Iraq twice now, especially going on those intense missions, living through a lot of the things he did. Going through those experiences increased my understanding of him and my respect for what he's done and what he's gone through. I think that's brought us closer together.
Capone: There have been so many documentaries in the last few year dealing either with the situation in Iraq--there was that great film GUNNER PALACE, where they actually gave cameras to the soldiers to film--and you get a few about the men and women who return and have trouble readjusting to society. You somehow managed to capture both aspects, but I think that's necessary at this point. In order to understand the problems at home, you have to understand what they went through overseas.
JR: That's a really astute comment. You're absolutely right. I think that is one of the very special things about the film, the access I had, both because it's my family and I'm inside of it, and the access I received being able to go out on the front lines to the edge of the battlefield and live with those guys. Those guys are taking the fight to people coming in from other countries, like the re-con guys on the Syrian border, the guys that are working with the Iraqi army on the front lines. But also what they face when they go home, and the reintegration and what the families are going through. I think both those components are really important to understand if you're going to try and understand them. I think what's great about the film is that it's not an outside-looking-in point of view. It's like you said, you might even feel a little uncomfortable because there you are. You're there in the bedroom with Joe and I when I come home, and Joe rejects me. It's not me telling you about it; you're there. And it's not talking about the experience to someone who's outside the circle. And I'm glad to hear you say it, but that's one of the things I thought would be really interesting to people. I wanted guys to talk about what it's like to be a sniper while they were on a sniper mission in the Sunni Triangle in the worst part of the war. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be there with them, ask them what it was like while they were doing it, not 10 years later. I thought that was the way to get as close to the truth as possible.
Capone: I also applaud you for leaving in the part where the one soldier admits that he's not sure why he's fighting in this war. I'm sure there are a lot of guys in that situation, who know why they signed on initially but maybe aren't so sure now. Along the same lines, you also make it clearer why guys re-enlist with such regularity.
JR: One thing that really flooded in on me when I was with those guys on the Syrian border was the very different myriad cast of characters I was surrounded by and that these guys were all very, very different people. They weren't cookie-cutter clichés of what I'd seen in movies; these guys were all very interesting, thoughtful dudes. And they all were different and they all had their own points of view, and the Army hadn't taken that away from them. In fact, all that time alone on the Syrian border to read, to talk, to not look at the Blackberry or the cell phone, actually helped them develop their individuality a little bit more than the civilian world. They'd all thought through a lot of things, just sitting there in the Humvee for eight hours, going out to the Syrian border and seeing nothing but sand, you do a lot of deep thinking and your mind goes to lots of interesting places, and you really think about all the things in your life. And it was amazing to go through that experience. And the thing about Sgt. Ben Fisher, which I think is so interesting in the film and I'm still friends with him now, he is really wrestling with the choice. He loves the job, but it scares the crap out of his family. He wants to stay, but he also wants to try something new and different, and move on to the next part of this life. That back and forth, tug and pull went all the way back to the point where he decided to go back to the civilian world and see what that was like, with the knowledge that he can always come back to the military if he wants to. He ended up deciding to leave the Army when his four-year commitment was up and go into construction in Hermosa Beach, California. He's having a great time, but he still misses the Army quite a bit and the friendships he had and the job he was doing. He love his experience in the Army, but he was ready to do something else with his life.
Capone: When you entered the second phase of the project and went back to Iraq, did you realize that this was going to be less about family and more about the experience?
JR: When I went back to Iraq the second time, I went back looking for what I'd missed the first time. I really was trying to wonder, "What is Joe talking about that I missed?" And I dove right in with both feet. Hey, Gary.
[Gary Sinise enters the room.]
Gary Sinise: Good morning, everybody. Sorry I'm late. I got lost trying to find my way around this giant hotel.
Capone: While you're getting settled, I just wanted to say that back in high school, my very first profession theater-going experience was at the Kennedy Center--I didn't grow up here; I grew up in D.C.--seeing the Steppenwolf company do "Streamers."
GS: "Streamers"? You saw that? Wow.
Capone: I did, and you spit up blood on my shoes.
[Everyone laughs]
GS: It was a small theater.
Capone: It was. There was no separation between the actors and the audience. You get stabbed, you drop to your knees facing the audience, you spit up blood, and it landed right on my shoes. I thought I was going to pass out.
GS: That was a bloody, bloody show.
Capone: Years later when you started to become more famous with your film work, I immediately recognized you as the guy from that play.
GS: [reaching across the table to shake my hand again] Well, it's good to see you again. And that was not even a theater. We made a theater out of this small room.
And the same friend who took me to that in high school went on to got to college in New York, and he took me to "The Grapes of Wrath" that Steppenwolf did on Broadway.
GS: Do you remember that it was Ving Rhames that was in that show, "Streamers"?
Capone: I do, and I also remember that Dennis Farina was in it too.
GS: That's right, he was.
Capone: So Gary, at what point in the production of this film did you get involved?
GS: There was a mutual friend of ours that introduced us, a guy named Michael Broderick, he's a former Marine. He's a friend of mine and a friend of Jake's. Jake could probably speak more about how Michael ended up hooking us up. That was probably about a year ago.
JR: About a year and a half ago, I think.
GS: When did I do the Fox thing, the screening?
JR: The day before Thanksgiving. It was January 10, we did the screening at Fox. I got asked to go to Iraq to screen the film for General Petraeus' public affairs folks. I'd was still tweaking it, and Gary did have some input into the final tweak of the film, but it was pretty much done. I was in Iraq and while I was over there, there was a lieutenant colonel, she saw the film and got really emotional and said, "It's obvious how much you love your brothers. You've got to show this to Gary Sinise. You've got to get him to present this film. He's a big supporter of the Marines and a big supporter of the military. Call Gary when you get back to L.A. and show him the movie."
GS: Just give him a call [laughs].
JR. Yeah, it was like Gary and I hang out all the time, and I just hadn't bothered to tell him I'd made this movie yet. So I was like, "Okay. Do you know him?" But I did remember what she'd said, and I went back to William Morris, where I'm represented to do voiceovers and stuff, and I was sitting in the lobby, and this former Marine Michael Broderick, who I now know is a very good friend of both Gary Sinese and myself. He's a voiceover actor and actor in Los Angeles. And he asked, "How did it go over there?" And I said, "It went great. It was very excited, and they really like the film. And then this Marine Colonel suggested something, that I should show the film to Gary Sinise." He goes, "Yeah, I think he'd love it. You know, I know Gary Sinise. I'm having lunch with him this week, I think I'm going to bring this up to him." Okay! A week later, I get a call a week later saying that Gary wants to see the film. You guys got to set it up. And eventually we got this morning, the day before Thanksgiving 2007, we went over to watch the film in CBS's little screening room.
Capone: What do you remember about that first viewing, Gary?
GS: I was very moved by it. Having spent so much time with veterans and military families and the troops, having them ask me all the time, "When is Hollywood going to make a movie that shows what we're doing here, in a positive way?" And I said I don't know when that's going to happen. But I'm still out here to do what I can to support the troops and help them out. Then this film came along, and I saw it and was very moved by it for many reasons. Jake's courage to take this camera over there and wander around. He was actually lucky to get imbedded with these folks, but he did it somehow. Not everybody can just go over with a film camera and wander around the battlefield and shoot things. [laughs] It takes a little doing to do that, but he was able to manage that. But it gave him the opportunity to make this film about his brothers Isaac and Joe. The love between these brother and in the family really touched me--all the family members and what they're going through because of this military deployment and the call to service that both his brothers have, which is something that I see all the time when I've out there visiting troops.
You know, a lot of Americans if you don't have a personal relationship to somebody in the military has this perception that anyone who joins the military can't do anything else, doesn't have any other options. And that's clearly not the case. The military is actually a great collage of America, because you see all these different people, and I noticed that on my first trips overseas way back, when I would meet some guy from Pakistan who wanted to be an American, so he joined the military. Or some kid from Micronesia, who went into a recruiter's office in Guam and said, "I want to be an American," and then he loses three limbs in the war. You get all kinds in the American military, and everybody has a different reason for serving. Clearly, Isaac going to West Point, he was a very serious kind of guy. He wanted military service kind of like Lt. Dan did in FORREST GUMP. He wanted to be an officer, he wants a military career. Not everybody does, who joins the military, but these two guys in Jake's family…and Jake, years ago, thought about being someone who would go into the military and didn't, but his brothers did, and he wanted to know what they were up to. And through them, we get to see a side of military service that is important for us to know at a time when we've just gone through a terrible times with the war. We've had negative images and negative perceptions of our military portrayed in the media over and over again, and this is another side of the story, where you see somebody who is called to serve and they want to serve. And we get to see the inside of Iraq from the soldiers' point of view. There's so many different reason I love the film and wanted to help support Jake. This is a movie that I've been waiting to see myself.
Capone: You mentioned that people have asked you, Why can't Hollywood get this right? Why do you think mainstream films haven't gotten it right, or have some of them come close?
JR: I think part of it is, to make this film was unbelievably difficult. There are not a lot of people in the industry that have a personal connection to people in the military. Gary has family members who serve in the military, I obviously do too. So this thing has a very personal meaning for both of us. We're already involved at a very personal, emotional, spiritual level on what's happening overseas with our guys. So that's the first thing. So the people on my team have been willing to make huge sacrifices to get the film to the point so it can open on March 13. I've been working basically for free for four-and-a-half year, put myself in harm's way where I literally had bullets whizzing by my head to make the film. My partner Norman Powell, a former television executive, working for next to free to help me get overseas to make the film. He put his 30-40 years of producing experience to mentor me as a filmmaker. Gary's been helping for over a year now to get the film launched into the national consciousness, to get the awareness going, to coach me on this whole aspect of what's going on. He's doing that out of the goodness of his heart. So it's very difficult to get a project to the point where we're at now. We're all very excited because now America is going to get a chance to decide is this the kind of film we want to see about our soldiers and our Marines and our National Guardsmen and our airmen and their families. Do we want more of this? And if they do come out and see the film, trust me, Hollywood will get the picture and they'll go, "Oh, this is what America wants to see." And they'll put more resources behind it.
I think right now, a lot of people making films about Iraq have never been to Iraq. If they were there, they weren't there for more than two weeks. They came in as an outsider, not as a brother of someone serving over there, or they interview people as they come home, but they're kind of outside the circle. So they're not really…it's like making a film about dog, by someone who's never owned a dog.
GS: Jake went to Iraq. He shot all this film. He shot his brothers at the house, he showed what the family members are going through. It's an inside look from a different perspective. I've said years ago when we went through the craziness of Abu Ghraib, where some of our soldiers ran amok, and took all those pictures and those images became the image of the American soldier. And that couldn't have been more wrong--you have 15 people out of 150,000 that went a little nutty over there, and they became who our military was. And then you add another 150,000 shaking their heads at how stupid that was. Yet the media just flooded us with those images and almost was in a frenzy to show the negative side of the American soldier. At that same time, I was over there shooting soldiers giving pencils to kids and helping children build schools, and I'd go on television trying to tell what I'd seen. But the media wasn't buying it. They just wanted to flood us with these negative images of the soldiers. Bad news sells; there's no question about it. If there are two houses sitting there and one's on fire, the camera is on the one that's on fire. That's what they gave us, they gave us half the story. They didn't show us the house that was fine and everybody is happy inside. They didn't soldiers doing positive stuff enough, so we were getting just a small portion of the story.
That was frustrating, because if you go over there and you see how dedicated our soldiers are, and you see them depicted in this film quite beautifully, dedicated to service and trying to do the right thing for their country. And why can't we see the other side of the story? You always have to look at the media with one eye.
JR: That's a good analogy. It's like watching a quarterback throw for four touchdowns, 30 completions, and the only image they keep running over and over is the one interception pass he threw. The problem for us with that is, yes, it's horrible because America doesn't understand. But for me personally, it's hard because the guys that are serving deserve better than that. The guys I was with were working six days a week, 12 hours a day. You see the sacrifices they're making on the home front. I think the film beautifully captures that with Isaac's relationship with his daughter, and I just think Americans deserve to know what's going on without a filter, just the truth. I wanted to put the camera there in the battle, in the fight, back at the base, with what they're actually doing.
GS: You know what's very good about this also. When have you ever seen Americans working with the Iraqis in that way, that you see in this film. You just don't see it, maybe a little bit, but not nearly…I mean, going out to the battlefield with an Iraqi unit and watching the Americans work with the Iraqis, support them, help them. You never see that, and that's something we've been doing for years now, trying to get those Iraqi troops up to speed and get them ready so they can defend their own country. You see the bond that goes on between the American Marines there and those Iraqi troops. When he tells the Iraqi, "You did good today." They are proud of themselves. They took some hits that day, but they fought back and did a good job, and they get a pat on the back from the American Marine. That's a very positive thing. I've been all around that country and seen different Iraqi units at various degrees of capability. Some places, you have guys who are crack guys now; they're real soldiers ready to go. Other places, they're moving a little slower. And that battle that day made them better, and Jake was able to capture that and be right in the middle of that thing. That's something you don't see.
Capone: Jake, it was great meeting you. I really did like this movie. Gary, it was great meeting you finally.
GS: You too. Spread the word.
Capone: You coming back to Steppenwolf anytime soon?
GS: Not to act, but my band will be at Joe's Bar on Weed Street on April 17, and we just played last night.
-- Capone
capone@aintitcoolmail.com
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He wear a toupee. So much for credibility
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the posts just keep coming!
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Sinese is a class act.
Did you know that DUE TO THE USA's liberation of Iraq through the brave actions of our TROOPS:
47 countries have now reestablished their embassies in Iraq ?
Did you know that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?
Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under rehabilitation, 263 new schools are now under construction, and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?
Did you know that Iraq 's higher education structure now consists of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or Colleges, and 4 research centers, all currently operating?
Did you know - that Iraqi women are now allowed to attend s chools?
Did you know that 25 Iraqi students departed for the United States in January 2005, for the re-established Fulbright program?
Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is now operational?
That they have five (5) - 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels, and a naval infantry regiment.
Did you know that Iraq 's Air Force now consists of three operational squadrons, which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft (under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night, and they'll soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?
Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?
Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers?
Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq, that produce over 3500 new officers each 8 weeks?
Did you know there are now more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.
Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the series of polio vaccinations?
Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid-October?
Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq, and phone use has gone up 158% ?
Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 2010 television stations?
Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?
Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a televised debate recently?
OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW?YOUR NEWS MEDIA REFUSES TO TELL THIS!
Instead of reflecting our love for our country, we get photos of flag burnings, incidents at Abu Ghraib and people throwing things at the presidential motorcades.
Tragically, the lack of accentuating the positive in Iraq serves three major purposes of the liberal news media:
1. It is intended to undermine the world's perception of the United States, thus minimizing consequent support.
2. It is intended to discourage American citizens and erode their support for the war.
3. It is intended to help the Democratic Party gain more power in the next elections.----
All the above facts about Iraq are verifiable on the Department of Defense website: http://www.defenselink.mil/
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Lt. Dan!!
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Thanks for the fair shake Kapowski.
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Screw the right wing neo cons that put our men and women into harm for there ideological and profit gains. The right wing whines and complains of the left wing media for reporting the atrocities in Iraq. The truth is the so called liberal media doesn't tell the American people diddly squat about what's going on over there. The Rightwing would have you forget that the so called left wing media help sell the war to the American public based on 911 hysteria. That's great to know that schools are being built in Iraq while they rot away in our own country. Did you know that there are more Arbys in Iraq then there was when Sadam was in charge. Who gives a shit. our country is in a economic crisis thanks to the right wing jackasses that brought us this horrible never ending war. Fuck the Neo Cons and the boo hoo Republican Hollywood elite. Im glad Gary Sinese supports the military. I hope he really cares about what happens to them when they get home. I hope he cares that the Bush Administration tried to strip the veterans of all their benefits. I hope Gary Senise is doing this because he truly cares about our boys and not because of some f'n Neo Con Ideological disaster capitalism economic experiment. Gary Sinese can go make a neo con film with Robert Davi and kelsey grammar.
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Why not spell his name correctly. It's Sinise, not Sinese. Come on, Capone.
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Gary Sinese is a great American. I disagree with his politics, but I admire his spirit and the fact that they're putting this film out there. We do need to see the good our troops are doing - and be reminded that they do it for us & see them for who they are. That said, guys like BLEST I can do without. How many schools have been destroyed in the war in Iraq, Blest? When you add those up, do they equal the number built? Are you counting those built twice? Painting the entire thing as this great achievement is just as bad as painting it as a total clusterfuck. I didn't need to read your questionable diatribe after having read such a thoughtful article.
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Is what BLEST is saying.
It's not the United States' job to invade countries and depose their leaders.
If Iraq had committed an act that called for war, I'd have no problem with the war. But all the justification for it such as WMD and ties to Al Qaeda wete lies. -
thanks for posting a GOP propaganda email chain letter from 2005, but your "facts" aren't any more true now than they were then.it's sad that people naively accept as fact these silly email chain letters about urban legends, hogzillas, sasquatch and whatever other mindless idiocy people can dream up.JUST BECAUSE YOUR FRIEND E-MAILED IT TO YOU, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S TRUE!!!
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NONE of those facts are true right? What are you the fucking Iraqi Almanac?...yet you probably believe that 1 million Iraqi's were killed too. What makes you're propaganda so special? Tool.
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Your own ideology is coloring your inference.
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I'm not saying "Yipee, war!". I'm just saying that there are 2 sides to the story, and you only get one side of it, usually. The same poin that Sinise is making.I have family over there too, so I'm more touchy about it. I don't like war, or people getting killed. But the guys (and gals) that are there are doing some good things. Some good things, like elections, stock markets, women in schools, etc...have come about that NEVER, repeat NEVER would've happened under Saddam. I'm no neocon, I just want people to think a little bit.
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Since Apollo 13.
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My take has always been that the point was to set up another "democracy" (read ally) in the region that is friendly to (read fights for) the US and Israel when we go to war with Iran and Syria.It's chess, not checkers.
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Blest, the million people dead in Iraq is not enough. Now you want war with Iran and Syria.
How about we drop you off in Iraq and you can go play some chess. -
You saw me say that...where?I said that it's probably the plan. I didn't say it's my plan.objectivity is a great thing, get some.
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...that came up with this one?
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I think that you may - wait for it - not be an objective source.
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If you are the slightest bit right of center on this site you will labled a Neocon. You are already begining to see the knuckledraggers crawling out from under their rocks...There's a million dead in Iraq and you want war with Syria and Iran...deadelephant said so.
Aside from a few poster here and there, reasonably informed individuals and nuanced thinking will not be found here. Mostly hard, over the cliff leftys (not liberals) to be found here. Best to just enjoy the spectacle, pull out the long knives and enjoy the sport. -
But its good to see some patriotism in films again. Democrat or Republican, I don't care. I just love to see patriotic films. Those are the real feel-good films. Just because someone loves their country doesn't make them some right wing crazed lunatic.
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I don't want to see some "rah rah USA" bullshit...I'm just weary of the ignorance of the other angle.
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"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
And then there is the Iraqi General who writes now that there were 56 flights of civilian airliners that the seats were removed and the planes loaded with MWD's which were then flown to Syria under the guise of humanitarian aid following the collapse of a dam caused mass civilian casualties in Syria.
See the story in the New York Sun http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/
But I guess you think they all are lying, huh? -
And I'm not a neo-con.Just think about things in a broader perspective than, "OMG Bush is Teh d3v!l"
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More emails from your neocon buddy? ;)
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there are never as many "facts" as you think there are. suppose I said there is 1 motorcycle accident for every 50 car accidents, so therefore you should ride motorcycles for safety! well I took a "fact" and twisted it to a preposterous conclusion. obviously there are less motorcycle accidents because there are less MOTORCYCLES period. PER CAPITA, they are much more dangerous. so I've taken a fact and created a false logic around it. and that is precisely what that email (and ones like it) do. they prey upon the laziness of the common person and their unwillingness to actually think analytically about facts and statistics that are presented to them.of course, you're still working on the difference between "your" and "you're", so I think maybe this is all a little out of your brain league. no offense, brother.
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Everybody sing!
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the jump from "Saddam Hussein is dangerous and something needs to be done" to "let's invade a sovereign nation with no real plan for success" is where you lose me. and where the majority of the country got lost as well.
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every reason they've been given for being in Afghanistan and Iraq has been a blatant lie and most are coming to the realization that they are cannon fodder.
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Duly noted.
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you're
lumping everyone right of center who believes that the media doesn't present a situation in it's entirety into the same sad sack.
Like the new talking point "Rush Limbaugh is the intellectual head of the Republican Party."
Or Any sentence that mentioned Bush/McCain. There ASSOCIATION games, and I choose not to play them. -
Mar 10, 2009 4:27:36 PM CDT
why does no one question the motives in the Afghanistan war?
by awepittance
did i miss the moral debates about it? it seems like most people only talk about Iraq but care little about the extremely expsensive military invasion of an entire country to catch ONE man.
The British government and US government say that there is not hard enough evidence to convict him in a criminal court. HMMMMMMM so let me get this straight.... there was enough evidence to go to war.... but not to court?
Most of the anti iraq war people only jumped on the band wagon of being against it when it become popular, it's too that people can't see injustice as it's happening in real-time, only retroactively when it's the popular thing to do -
you're playing association games, and that game is not for critical thinkers. Be careful friend.
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I'll be the first to state what a mismanaged, colossal blunder the planning for the whole endeavor was. Probably the biggest blunder of the the century.
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Afghanistan is like the 3rd poorest country in the world, it has like an 85% illiteracy rate, what are we hoping to turn it into? the BEST case scenario is that it becomes a sort of mini-Pakistan, and Pakistan is as unstable as ever!I do think we should invade Canada though...I love snow
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Mar 10, 2009 4:30:55 PM CDT
LOL @ Blest and the fact that he can only think LEFT VS RIGHT
by awepittance
i pity you for being so trapped.
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I'm pretty sure this documentary will be more entertaining than Redacted, Lions For Lambs, In the Valley of Elah, The Kingdom, and Rendition combined.
If this movie is about the heroism of the soldiers and focuses on some specific things they've physically accomplished, that's totally cool. If the movie ever tries to make a political statement about why we needed to go there in the first place, I'll turn it off. -
um...come again? (that's what she said)
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may be true, but you still cant think out of the box and have extremely arrested development in your logical thought.
To use quotes by idiots like Al Gore and Madeline Albright to help make a case of why we should go to iraq is one of the most idiotic and brainless things i've seen all day. -
to peoples amazing ability to not analyze the facts around them, there's enough blame to go around. I hear a lot of it. Privately I hear it on the right wing side individual to individual, left of center it's done publicly, namely through association. Associating Bush with McCain, creating a link that anyone who follows American politics knows is ridiculous, as they have never been allies. Now they're trying to anoint Limbaugh the head of the GOP because they know he polls extremely poorly. At least the right isn't manufacturing misinformation/associations that people eat up as credible.
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Using terms like "Think outside the box" doesn't reflect any kind of nuanced thinking either. Do you mean that you get your news from BBC rather than FOX? Way to think outside that box.
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"At least the right isn't manufacturing misinformation/associations that people eat up as credible."AICN really needs an edit function, huh? you want to rethink that one before I offer up at least 5 clear examples of them doing just that?sure there is enough apathetic association on both sides of the aisle, but I was speaking specifically about these stupid email forwards that people just eat up. for too many people in my generation (I'm 29) they have grown up with the internet as omnipresent, and so they have forgotten that it is not an encyclopedia. anyone can write anything and disseminate it, regardless of how fallacious or illogical it is. the examples of hogzilla and all those idiotic things were purposefully chosen because they are not partisan or even political, just illogical and stupid. THAT is what I have a problem with, not the fact that BLEST's list happened to be an idiotic republican propoganda email rather than an idiotic Democrat propoganda email.
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Well fuck you. If you can't sit down and talk with someone you disagree with without going into great mental anguish you are a bigger idealogue than any Republican I've ever seen.
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I just thought he supported the troops.
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LMAO. Eat it.
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Further proof that not all repulicans are dicks.
And then there's Arnold of course... -
Look it up. When world leaders actually believe stuff like this, it becomes clear that negotiation is futile, and military action is inevitable.
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All of the geek idols. LOL. Eat it again libs.
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He didn't out and out say it, but a recent (before election) quote from him was something to the lines of "once you've been in prison, your preception changes, and it's pretty hard to be a liberal." LOL!
Again, I just want to clear something: posting those "facts" about Iraq (yeah, they were copy/paste) and the quotes from the Clintons and other Dems, is not to say that the Iraq war is wonderful.Or that I'm for it.The point is just to open up some thinking. It's not all one side as the media portrays, and that's what the film that Gary Sinise is backing is trying to say.For the record, I'm not a Repulican, nor a Neocon. I'm a free American who holds many liberal positions on major issues (immigration, healthcare, welfare, eduaction, criminal prosecution for drug use) and some conservative positions on major issues (abortion, marriage, national security). But with family over in Iraq, I'm very touchy about how they are portrayed, whether you support the war or not. -
What the Repubs are selling, people aint buying. And yeah, and edit button would help
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...is that anything good about what the troops are doing in Iraq will be seen as propaganda promoting the initial invasion/the "need" to stay there indefinitely.I was against invading that country from the beginning, but I'm able to separate the good the troops do there from the (most likely) bad that led politicians to send them there in the first place.
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FUCK THAT!!Those cunts get exactly what they deserve, plus its not like less Rednecks in the world is a bad thing.
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this is why they can't win wars....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc-5W_JJVps -
http://tiny.cc/kUOY7
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Did you notice how intelligent, informed, and well mannered he seemed. No liberal hate and lecturing.
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The terrorist attack was a criminal act, not an act of war, since Al Qaeda is an organization, not a country.
So, it should have been a law enforement operation to catch Bin Laden. Not military action. The FBI, CIA, INTERPOL and whoever else that should have been in on it to catch him. -
Spork that is the funniest and most retarded thing I have ever heard! Wow! Seriously I can't stop laughing!
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I doubt it, you obviously hear yourself when you speak.
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Mar 10, 2009 11:22:09 PM CDT
re: bruce and stallone are republicans <---- only semi true
by awepittance
check out their recent statements regarding the war, bush and the way the US government has handled this of late and you will realize that your statement is not entirely true
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I can not tell you how hard it's been coming home.....I served with infantry for the surge....WE WERE THE SURGE....My god I will never be the same. So many scars and bad memories....I will never forget. How do you go on with this? You just keep breathing and hoping for a better day. very painful
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Are a bit of a joke. You say they only show us pictures of flag burnings? Where exactly? Some left wing website doesn't count. Mainstream media shows flag burning? No, they don't unless it's a story about Iranian militants. People throwing things at Presidential motorcades? When has that ever happened? Perhaps you mean the shoe throwing incident. That was news. Fox covered it. Why shouldn't everyone else? Abu Ghraib was certainly newsworthy and needed to be told. Pres. Bush spoke publicly about it, thus making it news.The American people never needed the media to help them turn against the war. Bush's mismanagement and the large numbers of casualties (thankfully down since the Surge) helped to erode public support. Should the media not report that troops have been killed? That would be unpatriotic.The claim that the media conspires to elect democrats is just plain sad. Face it. Republicans had their chance at running this country and they blew it. Maybe the Democrats will blow it too. The fact of the matter is that the American people rejected the Republican party and their nearly 30 year old economic ideas that just aren't relevant anymore. No one did more to elect Democrats than Pres. Bush. The media told more negative stories about Obama than they ever did about McCain. That is fact.
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derivative and redundant movie title since 'Fatal Death'. In fact even more so, since I just made that one up.
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you should kill yourself, or better yet go back in time and punch your mother in the stomach so you bleed as a fetus. Do the world a favor.
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...and another round of pin the ad hominem attack on the right has ensued...again. I've had to stifle several graffaws along the way, but I made it through. Having read all this, I have to ask: Did any of you actually watch the preview for the film? This is ultimately about brothers trying to connect. It's a very personal, apolitical story. We have become so utterly hypersensitive to this war because it has been politicized from the beginning. It would pay dividends now to just simply watch the film and realize that--not unlike Evan Wright, a man who never let his bias decrease his respect for those with whom he was embedded--maybe we can try and appreciate what was filmed there in terms of just seeing what soldiers and marines go through.
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It's amazing how many people think that this or that is a lie and this or that is the truth. We shouldn't have done this, or we shouldn't have done that blah blah blah.
If you've never been to Iraq, your opinion of what goes on there is just that...an opinion. A very misguided and undereducated opinion at that. You can follow the trendy anti corporate media "Faux News Lies" movement if you want, but the fact remains...you're still at home just like the others...speculating...doing nothing about what goes on in the world. Just another sheep to the slaughter.
It's amazing how many people raise up in arms about Flames on optimus, or nuSpock sounding like a sissy, or most recently...OMGosh No SQUIDwtf!!1! But people completely disregard any movie based on the more serious of issues. IE, the war that has broken families, ruined if not ended lives, so on and so forth. The affect it has had on people from all over the world, and the wonderful bonds being made here in Iraq with the locals. It's an eye opening experience, but no matter what the reason is that we came here...we're leaving it better than what is was like before so we'd better make the best of a shitty situation.
8 Years ago I never thought that one day I'd sit down with Iraqi friends and their families, and show them pictures of my friends and family. They're just as in the dark about us (as Americans) as you are about what really goes on in a war.
Capone this is by far one of my most favorite AICN articles of all time. I'm genuinely anxious as hell to see this movie, and I love that it's been made the way that it has. Thank you for posting that, I'm spreading the word on this movie as soon as I post this.
You're the man Capone. -
Seriuosly you guys try to lecture "liberals" of not being objective? Look the word up in the dictionary. The right wing is the least objective group in the country. These people have f'd this country up and they have the nerve to critize us for trying to improve it. I dont understand why they pretend to care about Iraq's people (they really dont) They try to give us guilt trips about all the "good" We done there. If you tell them how a USA family of 7 are losing there house with both parents working 2 jobs and they could give 2 shits. They pretend to support the troops, they really dont. The minute one of our soldiers comes home and speaks out againts the Iraq Occupation they demonize them. No one on this message board has attacked this movie. Were just trying to point out that we should never of went there. Right wingers on AICN are sad bunch of nerds who think 300 was a documentary on the Marines.
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If there's anything to be said of any political talkback on this site . . . the left/libs ALWAYS start the flaming, the name calling, the insulting of other peoples' intelligence, and pointless jabbering. Way to go, tolerant liberals! You make the world a MUCH nicer place!
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The third comment is a right wing attack on the "liberal media". So it's the left that ALWAYS starts the flaming, name calling, pointless jabbering? Please!
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he has a good point...
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...well balanced and you actually let those interviwed speak their mind without leading. Looking forward to seeing this.
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...I work in DoD and I guess I missed the memo about the "liberal media." Can't find it on the web site either...might we be stretching the truth a bit here?Isn't it enough to applaud Sinise and Rademacher without inserting some stupid political slant and starting a fight?
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Look at the first post. A personal attack on Gary Sinise's supposed "hairpiece". Yeah. Real nice.
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That's not a political attack. He's just making fun of his hair. How do you even know the person who posted it is liberal? He didn't try to smear Republicans or spread "liberal media" conspiracy theories.
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God I knew from the point I saw Gary Sinise's name that the AINC idiot who wrote this article would bring up the fact that he's a rebublican. Why is that relevant. Capone if you interview George Clooney would you bring up his liberalism? And then act like it's a character flaw like you do Sinise? This is why journalists are so hated.
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pull your lip over your head and swallow.
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medicinaluser:
"FUCK THAT!!
Those cunts get exactly what they deserve, plus its not like less Rednecks in the world is a bad thing."
Walk up to your nearest military member and say that, you piece of shit. You are a poster boy for retroactive abortion! -
Clooney narrated a documentary about aid in Darfur...don't you think if he were interviewed for this site about that, they'd make mention of his politics in passing? Capone was nothing but full of praise for Sinise in this article and interview, so stop making nonsense up, ok?
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Done and Done MANY MANY Fucking times.If I ever find myself in the unfortunate position of being in your near bankrupt POS Country will happily do the same to any of your Redneck Military brethren aswell.You sound bitter almost like you have lost someone close in your Countrys illegal War,If that is the case I hope its fucking painful for the rest of your days asshole.You miserable war mongering fucks never seem to learn from your past mistakes.
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My brother and I who were cannon fodder for a bad choice. Where do we go from here? At least some step up to tell our story.....For fuck sake you will never know the damage that's been done...It's one thing to watch it on tv.....another to live the destruction.
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You know Sinise's hair was being picked on solely because of his political views because his credibility is questioned because of it. Which makes no sense at all.
Capone done right by Sinise and I praise him for that. But he also mentions he was a little scared to be in the same room with a Conservative. Why? If you're there to talk about a movie, who cares what your political views are? Just because its a movie about the military doesn't necessarily mean that you have to slant one way or the other? Was it good? Was it bad? How did it portray the fighting men and women of this country? You people who rant and rave about how bad the military is . . . we'd be dead without them, like it or not. -
Seriously, its still going on? Who knew ... or cares?
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...don't you think you're blowing up Capone's comment way out of proportion?I never begin a political discussion with Republicans today because: 1.) Republicans are angry, it seems, about everything all the time. Angry before, during and still after the election. 2.} You can't get two sentences into a discussion without the "liberal" bomb being dropped. Hey, it's just a political slant man and not a disease, honest. 3.)Anger, anger and more anger...no wonder you folks are out of touch with most Americans.
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...you must hail from the country of Perfectia then. Thank you for lowering yourself to talk to us filthy Americans.May I make you an offer to not set foot in this country then? While you're at it, stay off any American posting sites as well since it must be excruciating for you.Oh yeah, I'm quite sure you've gone up to US service folk and told them that. Pshhtt...my Sooty Ass. Furthermore, how do you know what a "Redneck" is if you've never been here? Even if you somehow do, you're not worthy of licking their soiled BVD's if they happen to be in uniform.
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"Thank you for lowering yourself to talk to us filthy Americans." Your welcome but I dont need to set foot in America as I see plenty of your countrymen and women the world over. Some of you actually have the gaul to travel, imagine that hey. "Oh yeah, I'm quite sure you've gone up to US service folk and told them that" Sorry have yet to come across one on my many travels that isnt some inbred fuckwit but where I do notice any who may be military types (on leave) am happy to buy them a round of drinks and then abuse the fuck out of them, for the life of me it NEVER gets old and the look on ther faces is always worth it. An example at a bar in Dubai recently met a group of young Americans (2 of whom had served in Iraq..why do they always have to bring that up like its a good thing FFS) and got chatting over at there table, we talking about how they want to hire out a supercar for the weekend when all of a sudden I get up and throw my drink at one of them and then start cursing LOUDLY. I go on to tell everyone in earshot how the fucking Yanks have been bragging about murdering innocent women and children in Iraq, take a lunge at one and even get a few digs in before my mates pull me away, suffice to say they almost got lynched by a bunch of the locals in that place. I laughed and never stopped laughing as they ran out never to be seen again. If that upsets you all the better as unlike others I am not about forgiving the foot soldiers for *just* following orders, No fuck that and fuck you.
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...you must be some complete and utter bad-ass then. Lawks, I hope you don't chase me down over the Internets and throw a drink in my face!"...how the fucking Yanks have been bragging about murdering innocent women and children in Iraq,..." Simple and utter bull-shit. Internet courage...it's cheap, worthless and only used by cheap-shot specialist like yourself. People who are the first to wet their knickers and call out for someone to protect them when things get tough.
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gaul? lol...maybe international politics shouldn't be your first order of business, kiddo...
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the idea that this guy has ever been to Dubai is laughable. I wouldn't take him too seriously...
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...I don't. Reminds me of that kinda sickly monkey at the zoo who only flings poo at his own reflection...you just can't help but pity him.
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I am a sickly monkey am I and I have my eyes on you.As for needing protecting well seeing as you guys have made the world so much safer for everyone I shoud'nt be needing any help anytime soon right?But on the off chance the above statement isnt true and you have been doing nothing but reaming the world good and proper making things worse, fear not.... I will be more than happy for your fellow countrymen to continue to lay down there lives so I can carry on living the easy life of that I have no qualms.When you decide to wake up and realise you do more harm than good and choose to change your deviant ways, expect the good times to follow shortly there after.
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...aw, yer gawkin' at lil' ol' moi? I guess I should be flattered by the attention but...no mind.Protection by any member of the armed services/police from whatever country you're from then (Since you used the rather archaic term "Yanks," I assume yer a Brit or an Ozzie.). I didn't necessarily mean the US.I am curious, however, why one who chooses a handle like that would go around picking fights. Shouldn't you act a bit, well, mellower? Furthermore, I'd be curious to know if you actually intend to watch this doc. You may have a disdain for the US military at this point in time but can you muster a shred of objectiviy to give this an honest viewing?As for murdering innocents then I can only assume you revile alQueda in equal measure, yes? After all, they began this current conflict by doing that very thing. All nations involved in total warfare have purposefully targeted civilians but that was typically only after provocation by the other side. It is a thing you Brits have done as well, agreed?
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...in the end, we'll just have to wait and see. The Fat Lady has only just cleared her hideous throat.
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"no matter how you feel about the Iraq War or those who fight in it"? I hate this "get over it" mentality. No ones accountable, just say My Bad and move on. Sinise and his ilk happily put a famous face on the run-up to the "war". It's just like them to take the movie-business money, then complain about the industry at their fancy gun clubs over a scotch. Sinise was a cheer-leader for Bush, and now he's making a profit under the guise of "telling the story". Give me a break!
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