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Alexandra DuPont, The Smartest Girl In The World, Watches WATCHMEN!!

Watchmen: FAQ (by Alexandra DuPont) ____
"The most unpleasant right-wing character is Rorschach. He almost ends up as the hero of the book.... Even if his politics are completely mad, he has this ferocious moral integrity that has made him one of the most popular characters.... and [he] was kind of my take on Steve Ditko. Someone had been interviewing Ditko and said, 'Have you ever heard of this book "Watchmen"?... It's got this character called Rorschach.' And he said, 'Oh, yes, Rorschach -- he's like Mr. A, except he's insane." [laughter] -- Alan Moore, talking about Steve Ditko (and Ditko's Rorschach-inspiring character "Mr. A") in Jonathan Ross' fantastic BBC documentary "In Search of Steve Ditko"
____
Q. What's the upshot? You know, after skimming all the reviews of "Watchmen" -- from the embargo-busting blowjobs to the crank-butts rooting for it to fail to Anthony Lane proving, again, that every review he writes is less about cinema and more about the splendor of his insults -- I'm starting to wonder if saying "'Watchmen' was okay" isn't some sort of revolutionary act. "Watchmen" was ... well, it was okay. It's a surface-skimmer that should have milked more art, philosophy and emotion out of its ideas and characters, especially toward the end. It also has a lot of trouble keeping a steady tone -- some actors go natural, a couple go barn-broad under pounds of bad makeup. But it starts brilliantly. It does a solid job of distilling a coherent story out of a sprawling book. It's gonzo with detail. It's weird and harsh and visceral and Pop -- and I love that it has an '80s score. At least three of the actors totally bring the pain. And it could have been a lot less adventurous than it is. Hell, I love that a superhero movie just totally turned the crank of a chick with awesome serial-killer-muscle-car-noir tastes like my pal Kim Morgan, even if I didn't like the movie nearly as much as she did. Anyway. I'm guessing the big-screen "Watchmen" won't endure like the comic. But it's ambitious and problematic in an entertaining way. For many of you, that won't be enough. In the coming weeks, this flick's going to get parsed to death. (I feel like it's already been pre-parsed to death. Hi.) And it's going to be easy to forget, amid all the audience-splitting and monitor-sputum, just how hard Zack Snyder and his team swung for the back bleachers on this. Snyder basically spent his entire line of Hollywood credit on a dark ending, an epic running time, an R rating, Jackie Earle Haley, alternate-universe 1985 and a swinging blue cod. I'd rather have seen Greengrass' take on this material, frankly -- but there's real heroism and gristle in what Snyder fought to get onscreen. (If you don't believe me, read this.) That said, for my money the movie has a core problem, and it's this: Zack Snyder is far better at stirring your glands with sex and violence than he is at stirring your brain with nuance and philosophy -- and Moore and Gibbons could stir both, with nothing more than lines on paper. Snyder has a good eye and some serious sack, but I'd argue (unhappily) that he simply wasn't the best director for this gig. Spoilers henceforth.

Q. What's the story? Oh, you know. This feels like a good place to link to a couple of online reading companions to the comic book -- which break down every page with awesomely dense annotations. Here are Doug Atkinson's "Watchmen" annotations. Here's "Watching the Detectives." Anyway, in case you just came out of a quarter-century coma or something: We're in an alternate-timeline 1985. A bunch of fucked-up second-generation superheroes won Vietnam and kept Nixon in the White House. The Cold War's still on. The superheroes have human frailty mapped onto their standard archetypes -- the Superman character can't help disconnecting from the human race, the Batman character is a fetishist, &tc. There's a murder. It's the iceberg-tip of a conspiracy in which the supervillain (if you can call him that) has a master plan that's a brilliant mind-fuck of a practical joke. Cue loss of easy ideals, injection of shades of grey and dark metaphysics into once-primary-colored superhero genre. I never thought I'd see this in a movie theater, much less find the book on sale at bloody Target.

Q. What's good? 1. Snyder and his team have done a fairly confident job of boiling down most of the book's plot and images into a movie story without seeming to kiss the book's ass, if that makes any sense. They knew what to throw away, what to change, and why, at least until the very end. I do wish we had (except in fleeting shots) the newsagent and the kid reading the pirate comic and especially the long, patient chapter in which studying Walter Kovacs destroys the prison psychiatrist's smug bourgeois home life (though perhaps the director's cut will restore some of that). The dense texture created by the comic's Russian-novel cast of thousands is a big part of the book's appeal for me. But I didn't really miss it while I was being carried along in the theater -- I was too busy being impressed that Snyder had preserved so much of the book's nasty freak-show core. The burning-building rescue is still the only actual act of genuine heroism performed by any of these "superheroes"; the rest of the time, they're still -- miraculously, in this risk-averse Hollywood age -- a bunch of deviants gleefully performing assorted acts of genocide between bouts of angst and coitus. (If anyone sat next to a parent who took their kids to this thinking it's just another capes-and-tights movie, please tell your story in TalkBack; I can't imagine it was pretty, and maybe it was hilarious.) 2. In a development that will surprise absolutely no one, Snyder is especially good at translating the iconic images from the comic (except for the opening of Chapter 12 -- see below), especially if those iconic images are gory. The long pullback from the smiley-face button to Blake's broken penthouse window? It's here. Rorschach's final blood-and-guts snow angel? Almost as lovingly shot as a compound fracture during one bold cross-cut sequence. 3. Good Lord, the first 20 or 30 minutes are just insanely, audaciously great. (I even loved little details like the way the studio credits snapped hard against a solid yellow color field; it felt old-school, and kind of set a tone of departure like the stylized MGM logo did in "2001." But I may be reaching there.) The opening murder scene in Eddie Blake's penthouse is beautifully choreographed -- I guess the cool kids are tired of his choreography style one whole movie later, but I personally love the way Snyder deliberately lingers in slo-mo over an action beat like a kid lingering over a comic-book panel. And by setting the whole scene to Nat King Cole's "Unforgettable," Snyder lends the murder of The Comedian a shocking amount of world-weary sadness, even when the Comedian is lobbing kitchen utensils. If CHUD can bring up "The Godfather," I'm just going to go ahead and bring up Hitchcock (but only for this scene). 4. And then the movie segues into one of the best opening-credits sequences I've seen in years -- a series of densely packed, semi-still images that cram in Easter eggs from the graphic novel and pop culture while surveying the rise, fall and corruption of the costumed adventurer over a few decades, all set to Dylan's "The Times They Are A-Changin'." The movie's never quite this good again, but still.

5. Patrick Wilson keeps a little of the paunch and all of the impotence as a naturalistic Dan Drieberg, Billy Crudup's spooky voice work (mostly) carries you through the uncanny valley of the all-CG Dr. Manhattan, and Jeffrey Dean Morgan actually creates a perverse sort of empathy for homicidal sex-offender black-ops jackass Eddie Blake. But know my meaning when I write that Jackie Earle Haley is to Rorschach as Mickey Rourke was to Marv. It's one of those wonderful collisions of actor and part where God seemingly set a man's atoms in motion so he could tumble through life and land in front of this camera in this costume. Drew touched on something essential in his early review: Haley was a child star with an expressive, weird face (I love him as the least-troubled Cutter in "Breaking Away"), but he ended up driving a limo for a while there while L.A. was kicking his ass -- and his years in the real world made him weathered and interesting in a way no personal trainer can fake. Haley absolutely nails every "Hrm" out of Rorschach's mouth, he acts through a mask so well you forget he's wearing one, and when he takes it off and stares down assorted psychiatrists and gang bosses, there's a coiled fury there that's absolutely riveting. He's every bit as good as you've heard he is, especially when he's disdainfully sneering as he takes the actual Rorschach ink-blot test. And he's so tiny, there are a couple of scenes where he almost looks like his own Rorschach maquette, so that's kind of cool. 6. I've heard people bagging on the obviousness of the pop songs in this movie -- but the ersatz-period score by Tyler Bates strikes me as pretty damned swell. At its best, it hits a nice '80s Carpenter/Vangelis groove; you can practically hear the "Blade Runner" temp score when Rorschach is zipping by grappling hook to the Comedian's penthouse.

Q. What's not-so-good? 1. Malin Akerman isn't so much lousy as Laurie Jupiter -- she just utterly fails to make an impression. On the page, Laurie always struck me as being what I'd call "Karen Allen feisty" -- you could see how she was the sort of fiery woman who would attract powerful men despite her '80s-coke-queen exterior. Akerman kind of stops at '80s coke queen. Mainly, the culprit is her thin American accent -- it has that same shallow, party-girl flatness that drones from the larynx of every cast member of "The Hills." 2. Matthew Goode has a similar but much-less-severe problem as Ozymandias -- which really surprised me, given the charisma bomb Goode dropped as the scumbag charmer manipulating Joseph Gordon-Levitt in "The Lookout." He and Snyder decided to go Full Glam Bowie with Ozymandias, which is an interesting choice -- except that they remove the intellectual passion and the sense of a heavy crown that courses through the character in the book. The Matthew Goode problem can be summed up with a single example, actually: In the book, after Veidt pulls off his scheme, he gets a final scene alone with Jon. All his megalomaniacal smartest-man-on-earth defenses drop, and he plainly asks Jon if he did the right thing. Jon says "Nothing ever ends" and leaves Veidt alone, Veidt's back and head turned uncomfortably, the architect of mankind's future haunted by shadows, ghosts, and the eternal threat of failure. It's a great, chilling panel of comics -- a real tragic-horror moment. It's also completely absent from the movie. Instead, we just zoom away from Veidt through a hole in Karnak's ceiling along with the rest of cast and leave him in Antarctica, never knowing exactly how troubled he is by his deeds. (In fact, if memory serves, Laurie gets the "Nothing ever ends" line.) 3. Frankly -- and having been a teenager in the '80s, this is really weird to write -- "Watchmen"'s Cold War setting feels oddly ... quaint. If you were sentient when "The Day After" first aired on ABC, you'll remember how unbearably terrifying nuclear proliferation was at its MAD peak; "Watchmen" the comic caught that wave of dread with remarkable precision. The movie? Not so much. A larger sense of dread is probably the biggest casualty of stripping a bunch of the book's regular-guy supporting characters out of the screenplay -- the film drops all those wonderful textural scenes of characters talking helplessly about how the world is going to hell as they try to get through their suddenly meaningless days. 4. It also doesn't help that the film's scapegoat of irrational nuclear doom, President Richard Nixon in his fourth term, is played by Robert Wisden doing a funny voice in big-nose makeup that makes him look like a cross between a "Spitting Image" puppet and a Bob Hope caricature. Also unhelpful: Most of his scenes take place on the War Room set from "Dr. Strangelove." Wacky! Subtle! (I'm also told by a fellow moviegoer that Dr. Manhattan's apartment is basically laid out like the glowing hotel room from "2001," BTW.)

5. Speaking of bad makeup: Carla Gugino is terrific as young Sally Jupiter; she effortlessly looks, acts and talks like the sort of woman you'd spontaneously start painting on a plane. She is absolutely horrible as Sally Jupiter doing a funny old-person voice in a bad wig and a rubbery chicken-neck appliqué, sipping cocktails with the ferocity of a Douglas Sirk supporting character. My pornographer pal T.K. (who liked the film; more from him below) summed it up perfectly: "Carla Gugino in old-age makeup looks like Lea Thompson in 'Back to the Future II.'" (Note to all actors forever: If you play a character at two different ages, use the same voice throughout. Did "Godfather III" teach us nothing?) 6. Sort of semi-related. There was one mid-film scene where Dan and Laurie were having dinner in a restaurant and I suddenly for about a minute became acutely aware that I was watching people on a set in costumes, much as one might get that sense while watching a B-picture shot in the '40s. I have no idea why. 7. Also, I'm afraid I must be counted among those who disliked the changes in the final act, though it didn't completely cripple the movie for me. As you probably know by now, Adrian Veidt no longer teleports a genetically engineered, Lovecraftian alien monster/psychic nightmare-bomb into New York City, leaving the entire planet thinking it must unite against a threat from outer space. Instead, Veidt sets off tidy, body-disintegrating explosions replicating Dr. Manhattan's powers in cities across the globe, leaving the entire planet thinking it must unite against a threat from the recently departed Jon Osterman. I already know the arguments in favor of this change: It ties Veidt's plan more directly to the other characters; the "squid" would look stupid; it brings destruction to the whole planet instead of New York; it makes the parallels to 9/11 less blatant; yadda yadda yadda. If that makes the filmmakers feel better, fine. But allow me to retort. First off, the "alien threat" didn't have to be a giant squid; it could have been something more abstract, or even some kind of massive bombardment from deep space. Second, putting the blame on an American citizen turned into a weapon by an American laboratory accident -- superhero gone mad or no -- ultimately puts the blame for everything on America, period. Veidt's plan is meaningless unless the threat is completely external and all terrestrial villains are off the suspect list. I can't fathom how Snyder and David Hayter talked themselves around this simple fact. 8. That said, again, the change wasn't a deal-breaker for me; I was already on the narrative train by the time it happened. In fact, I was far more upset that Snyder skipped over the most potent, horrifying sequence in the book -- six staggering splash pages (constituting a single 360-degree camera pan, I think) of open-eyed corpses sprawled around a New York city intersection in the aftermath of Veidt's button-push. You know, the part where we see and feel the consequences of Veidt's actions. In the film, rather than picking among the bodies, Jon and Laurie stand over a giant, surprisingly tidy rubble-hole in New York City and chat for a few seconds, then teleport away. Given Snyder's knack for adding goopy violence everywhere else, I'm a little stunned at the exclusion. 9. But then, that sort of sums up the problem with the final act: It zips just a little too efficiently through its most horrible revelations. There's a hard-to-pin-down sense during the film's last half (especially during the sequences on Mars and in Antarctica) of Snyder putting the camera and the actors in more or less the right place, having them say most of the right words, and yet, for some alchemical reason, not really wringing a ton of emotion or profundity out of the moment. I do have to say that this problem may be one of my having read and loved the book -- which left me watching the movie with a sort of comparison subroutine running in my head the whole time. (I certainly won't be alone in this.) But I wasn't having this problem much during that first half -- and I really think that speaks to the strengths and weakness of Zack Snyder as the director of this project. As talented as he is, he's not the ideal man for the job, because the ideal "Watchmen" director has to have a head, a heart, and a set of balls. When Snyder is staging hard-boiled sex and violence, dealing out abuse, playing with special effects and music, creating iconic images, and dwelling on the primal concerns of manly-men, he's terrific. When he's asked to stretch a little and depict politics, a nuanced conversation, a family argument, a woman's neuroses, or some sort of quantum or philosophical truth, he either goes a little too broad or stands back a little too far. It's a variation on the problem in the less-ambitious "300," where the movie leaked air whenever it left the Spartan army to hang out in the Senate. I would love nothing more than to be completely turned around on this by a four-hour director's cut of the movie.

Q. What did your fellow screening attendees have to say afterward? "R.P.," console-gaming engineer: "Before seeing 'Watchmen,' I didn't think there was any way I could be apathetic about the film -- that, because of how important the book is to me, I'd inevitably walk out with a strong feeling one way or another. But as the My Chemical Romance kicked in and the end credits rolled, I just felt ... ambivalent. Not underwhelmed or disappointed or angry, but not satisfied or impressed, either -- just a 'Yep, that was mostly kinda "Watchmen," alright. So, where to for drinks?'" "P.H.," telemarketer: "Snyder mostly got the point, I think. Except for when he had The Owlship jizz hot fire all over New York to finish the goofiest Leonard Cohen video ever." "R.H.," lesbian filmmaker, agreeing with P.H.: "It felt like the entire audience was consciously holding back their laughter during the abominable sex scene. I think Snyder has some sort of a grudge against Leonard Cohen, and decided to ruin 'Hallelujah' for everyone, forever. "Malin Akerman looked great in her supersuit, but her entire performance consisted of her obvious pleasure at having actually memorized her lines, and nothing else. Jackie Earle Haley -- single best thing about the movie. He elevated it, repeatedly, to where it ought to have been, and usually wasn't. Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Carla Gugino also brought more to the table than Snyder was asking from his actors, and it showed. "The breaking-Rorschach-out-of-jail sequence in the prison? Ooooooh: Someone saw 'Oldboy.' Could the use of 'All Along the Watchtower' have been any more painfully on-the-nose? It was like a musical sledgehammer of obviousness. I miss the squid monster." "E.C.," ambassador: "That was like eating a chocolate-cinnamon Flan with a hint of Oaxacan cheese, or spending the night with a really skilled high-class escort. The passion is undeniable. The flavor is magnificent. Your senses are titillated. And you’re left wanting, and you feel slightly guilty." "T.K.," pornographer: "I'm a huge fan of the comic, but if you can pull yourself away from the source material long enough to look at the flick from a purely cinematic point of view, you'll see that the movie serves as a pretty profoundly fucked-up meditation on not only superheroes, but also on the people who dig superheroes. This is all subtext in the 'Watchmen' comic, but it wasn't until I saw all of these characters on the big screen that I realized that each of the heroes is crippled by an archetypal personality flaw endemic to a lot of comic book fans: the well-meaning but outta-shape/impotent Nite Owl, the too-smart-for-his-own-good Ozymandias, the rage-filled Rorschach and the all-knowing-but-tragically-disconnected-from-humanity pile of protons that is Doc Manhattan. It wouldn't be too hard to see these same characters stuck together in high school, unable to get dates or get along with anyone else while the Silk Spectre II bumps uglies with the school's quarterback. "As much as people were flipping the fuck out about 'The Dark Knight' last year, that movie didn't feature heroes who hack people apart with butcher's knives, shoot pregnant women or drown midgets in a toilet. This stuff may seem to be old hat since we've all read it years ago (well, maybe not the butcher-knives part), but this is a startling new ground for silver-screen heroes to tread, especially since no one is particularly punished for all the brutality they've dished out by the times the credits roll, which is also a kind of rarity. Sure, 'Watchmen' may just be a lumbering, stilted Frankenstein of a movie, but it's a Frankenstein powerful enough to rip your head off when you aren't looking, man. "My only other comment would be that if the producers of 'Watchmen' don't see fit to make a poster out of the film's version of the [lesbianic] VJ Day kiss, then they've gotta be out of their fucking minds. "(Oh, and that when you go to see the movie this weekend, you won't be watching Jackie Earl Haley -- Jackie Earl Haley will be watching you.)" "V.Q.," policy analyst: "My anti-'Watchmen' screed goes something like this: 'Watchmen' is a book that begs you to take its ideas seriously. And when you do, what you find is quite ugly. "Moore hates heroes. Why he got into this line of work is something of a mystery. It's like someone who hates nature getting a gig with National Geographic. This hatred comes across on every page of Watchmen. He hates the heroes who gave up on heroism, painting them as impotent losers. He hates the heroes who kept fighting, making them into psychopaths and worse. But most of all, he hates the superhero, who he insists must be a vaguely-doltish uber-mensch. And more than anything else, in Moore's mind, heroes mean fascism. "(Moore hates heroes so much that when he wrote Batman, he made the Joker out to be an innocent who was created by the Dark Knight.) "So 'Watchmen' has all the Moore-hero themes: Governments are fascist; governments which are run by Republicans are really fascist; heroes who try to save the world are fascistic villains; heroes who try to stop the heroes trying to save the world are fascist thugs; etc. etc. etc. Orwell wrote that the term 'fascist' had become so overused that it had simply come to mean 'some one or thing I don't like.' But with Moore it's even worse: When he uses it, it doesn't really mean anything. "I would argue that Moore's brand of dystopian misanthropy is wrong-headed and sophomoric and belied by 5,000 years of messy, imperfect, but ultimately glorious human history. But let's leave that aside for the moment: Watchmen's brand of dystopian misanthropy has been specifically refuted by events. It's one thing to worry about the evil U.S. policies of containment and mutually-assured destruction in 1986. It's one thing to paint a particular political party as being unconstitutionally obsessed with the possession of power and recklessly in pursuit of nuclear confrontation with an enemy who probably wasn't so bad. "But as it turns out, that entire worldview was vitiated by events. In 1989 the Berlin Wall fell and the Cold War ended. Reagan's strategic policy decisions vis-a-vis the Soviet Union were completely vindicated. MAD proved to be an effective deterrent. The conflict between the East and West was settled without a shot being fired. And, perhaps most importantly, the Truman/Kennedy/Reagan view of communism as an insidious ideology which led to violent, repressive authoritarianism was borne out. "So Moore was wrong. His fears were wrong. His warnings were wrong. His fundamental view of the world was wrong. And 'Watchmen,' in particular, is left as a bizarre cultural artifact. A pretentious piece of commentary masquerading as philosophy." ___________ Oh, my. DuPont here. If I had to sum it up: Occasionally it's stunning. Occasionally it's not, and unfortunately, a lot of the "not" happens toward the end, leaving my passions a little less stirred than I'd like. (It made this review surprisingly tough to write, actually. Nothing's harder to describe than warm sauce.) But the stunning stuff means the art ledger still sort of balances out to "okay." I have no idea where that leaves us. I'll probably see it again. Warmest, Alexandra DuPont. AlexandraDuPont@yahoo.com







Arm yourself to attack my critical judgment! It's easy and fun! Visit The (recently updated) DuPont Bibliography!
Readers Talkback
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  • March 6, 2009, 1:05 p.m. CST

    First!

    by Redmantle

    Aha, and I didn't even read the whole article. I'm just bored and home sick today w/ the flu.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Just Saw it Didn't understand any of it....

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    Really

  • March 6, 2009, 1:08 p.m. CST

    my chemical romance raped the bob dylan song

    by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell

    its a terrbile cover. sucks because my chemical romances balck parade album was amazing. good listen. but god damn the cover of times are changin is garbage

  • March 6, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    I stayed till the end

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    About 20 people brought their kids with them, saw some of that content and fled for the exits.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:10 p.m. CST

    No Herc intro for ADP?

    by Fico

  • March 6, 2009, 1:10 p.m. CST

    They saw the blue dong.

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    Then fled to the exits.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:11 p.m. CST

    I'm so glad we get another Watchmen talkback!

    by WillardGreensThunderballs

  • March 6, 2009, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Get well Redmantle.

    by mrfan

  • March 6, 2009, 1:12 p.m. CST

    I hope AICN links to every review of Watchmen...

    by WillardGreensThunderballs

  • March 6, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST

    I mean, is this even still in theaters?

    by WillardGreensThunderballs

  • March 6, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST

    best review i've read.

    by zom-bot.com

    somebody replace harry knowles with this broad

  • March 6, 2009, 1:16 p.m. CST

    ', in Moore's mind, heroes mean fascism.'

    by awepittance

    sounds like this moron has only read a handful of Moore's work like V and Watchmen, i really can;t stand when assholes spout off like this and give a critique of an entire artists work when they clearly have no clue what the man has done (supreme = fascism?)

  • March 6, 2009, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Harry Knowles thanks god for the Watchmen

    by themasterofnonsense

    Otherwise his site would have absolutley nothing to talk about.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:19 p.m. CST

    V.Q. is a fucking ayn rand worshipping douche

    by drturing

    Look at what's happening now; just as extreme Communism failed economically in the 80s, extreme Capitalism is failing in an aftershock now. MAD did not work; it was insane to begin with. Much less the effect on a psychic and subconscious level to all the world's citizens for decades that at any moment people in power could obliterate the world at the touch of a button. We now live in the age of LIC and localized aggrieved third worlders perpetuating acts of terror upon those they view as imperialists; so the relevance isn't there. It's hard to explain to anyone who didn't live through the 80s how it felt like we were on the abyss not of random acts of terror but the ENTIRE WORLD BEING OBLITERATED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH, turning our planet into a poisoned wasteland for millions of years. That did not work. It was madness, sheer and utter madness.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST

    PLEASE no Shit Girl tomorrow!

    by NeilF

  • March 6, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST

    If we were monkeys id want DuPont to be in my hareem

    by Mysterious_Volvo

    Because she sure knows how to nit-pick. I scanned through the review because i really think reviews like this are totally inconsequential.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Does DuPont look good? Anyone ever see her?

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    For some reason I get the impression she looks like Bruce Dern.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Love the DuPont reviews

    by chrth

  • March 6, 2009, 1:23 p.m. CST

    AdP: Best Reviewer AICN has got

    by DOGSOUP

    Every piece is gold. You should pay this woman handsomely and shower her with opportunities! Fools ye be if ye ignore the boon that be Alexandra DuPont. In conclusion, T.K. should do some reviews too with more of a bent to his line of work!

  • March 6, 2009, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Forget Harry's lame review...and Ebert's sub-par review...

    by Zandunga

    ...AO Scott is leagues better than either of them....best critic out there: http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/movies/06Watc.html?ref=movies

  • March 6, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST

    The Trek Trailer was more excting

    by lockesbrokenleg

    But, Watchmen was decent.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Watchmen was released today?

    by tonagan

    I had no idea. Why didn't they do any marketing?

  • March 6, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Cold War: '50s - '80s

    by ReportAbuse

    I don't think of it as an '80s thing, from what I recall of the time it had mostly petered out by that time, just a shadow of the paranoia that apparently gripped the '50s and '60s (judging from old movies and newsreels I've seen of those periods.) I know there was something called Detente in the '70s. After Kennedy's missile crisis in '62('63?) which really brought the world to the brink, both sides seemed to have stepped back a bit.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:28 p.m. CST

    And that's why she does the best reviews...

    by V'Shael

    Flawless.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Harry... Put Alexandra DuPont on the payroll!

    by robert.thekilled

    Wow! An intelligent, compassionate, well-studied review!?!? Next to Ebert's piece, this is a review to savor. Grand job Alexandra.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Pot Bellied Nite Owls do not exist in the dojo

    by CobraKai

    This movie was decent with the incredible amount of material that had to be condensed into a 2.5 hour film. He does jack up "Hallelujah" forever though. Now I'll just think hot owl jizz when I hear that wonderful song.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:29 p.m. CST

    "Fascist" = someone in power

    by ReportAbuse

    "Communist" = someone not in power who aspires to get into power and turn into a fascist (wittingly or not).

  • March 6, 2009, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Watchmen II Audience 0

    by lockesbrokenleg

  • March 6, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Alexandra DuPont

    by JAGUART

    Is a great reviewer and all woman. Thanks again.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Harry...

    by spooky2k

    We're 1 reviewer down since the great Mori left (taht is not sarcasm, I truly loved his reviews), so why not hire Alexandra DuPont? This is a fantastic review.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Jesus Christ enough already

    by Stuntcock Mike

    I was all fired up to see this. Now...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • March 6, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Greengrass would have SUCKED

    by D.Vader

    He wanted to make it a modern film about a terrorist fighting supergroup. FUCK. THAT.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Hey DannyGlover'sDickBlood...

    by Geek in the City

    I've met her a few times, don't ask how, she implanted a 'spoldy device in my junk if I say how... But, totally hot. Hot, digs movies, comics, and so not into me. More proof that god hates me.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:36 p.m. CST

    SUM the movie up in one word:

    by Weapon M

    Hollywood Arrogance!! I don't see how it would be justifiable changing a masterpiece especially an ending as tragic as Watchmen was. Arrogant hollywood stiffs thinking they could do better then Alan Moore, do better then what worked and kept people talking about for 20 years. They think they could do better then the original author who they call a genius. They replicate just what the original ending did in the first place: stun its audience and make it a classic. I was discusted and felt like walking out of the theatre. The ending we are all suppose to feel offended and feel betrayed by the watchmen. tag line is "who watches the watchmen?". There is HUGE problems with the ending. It screwed up what was a pretty good movie.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Great Review

    by Steve Young

    I just read "Watchmen" for the first time this week, and the aggregate affect of all these reviews, this one in particular, has convinced me not to see the flick in theaters. Great Review, very complete. I'll wait for the long version on DVD. Right now I just want to "sit" with the source material, rather than have it washed away by an entertaining compromise. And by the way, "Watchmen" is far from an artifact. That last reviewer is, quite simply, an idiot. The dangers of the 80s have not gone away - if anything, they are greater than ever, worse than ever. This whole "America won the cold war now and forever" bullshit has had its day. He took the point of "Watchmen" so LITERALLY. Just because the threats aren't (ostensibly) coming from "Soviet Russia" doesn't mean you can't transfer that kind of imbalance and horror and fear onto other politial movements and countries (germ warfare, nuclear programs...) ... the point in the comic was that "the chance of nuclear warfare" had been accelerated by the existence of Dr. Manhattan, but ultimately even in our own non-Manhattan timeline, it could still be somewhere around the bend.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:38 p.m. CST

    DuPont....

    by Zandunga

    ...is a better reviewer than any of the others, and she's 100% credible. The only other totally credible reviewer is Massawyrm. The rest is Harry-style fluff, ie, a joke.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:38 p.m. CST

    I think modern day terrorist thing would have resonated....

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    ....with audiences a lot more. From everything I've heard from reviews to friends that have seen it. It sounds like its right down the middle, fans of the book like it-- non-fans of the book don't hate it, but don't give a fuck about it. I think that has a lot to do with the era. People always say its period. But at the time, it wasn't. It was playing on contemporary fears of Nuclear War. Today thats sort of a joke.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Interesting.

    by HorrorFan81

    Always love her reviews. Well done.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:39 p.m. CST

    I dunno if I'd wanna fuck a chick that was into comics.

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    Because she probably wouldn't take good care of her cunt. And I need that thing well maintained.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST

    A ambassador and a porn star walk into a theater

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Hilarious.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Best review I've read so far.

    by BiggusDickus

    Seeing it in Imax tomorrow. Still - at least it's not 'Speed Racer' bad, eh?

  • March 6, 2009, 1:45 p.m. CST

    BTW V.Q., real life Heroes tend to be people like

    by drturing

    Pat Tillman. Killed by friendly fire, dishonored in death. Moore was taking comic book superheroes and putting them in a world where shit like THAT happens.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:48 p.m. CST

    The Swinging Blue Cods

    by BiggusDickus

    Best name for a jazz band I've ever heard...

  • March 6, 2009, 1:50 p.m. CST

    why is Patt Tillman a hero?

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

  • March 6, 2009, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Dollar Bill = Pat Tillman

    by zom-bot.com

  • March 6, 2009, 1:51 p.m. CST

    "You won't be watching JEH, JEH will be watching YOU!"

    by D.Vader

    Brilliant.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:52 p.m. CST

    ?It was playing on contemporary fears of Nuclear War. Today that

    by awepittance

    wow so was i just not paying attention when the stockpiles from all the nuclear countries that held thousands of hydrogen bombs capable of making the earth uninhabitable were destroyed overnight? thats amazing news!

  • March 6, 2009, 1:52 p.m. CST

    above reply to dickblood's 'terrorism would resonate more'

    by awepittance

  • March 6, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST

    pat tillman's a hero because

    by zom-bot.com

    he gave up a money making football career to go fight and die for something he believed would help people and the world. same kind of hero as if you or me did it. you can question and disagree with the war and the government's side of the story and for covering up the friendly fire, but the point is still there. and like dollar bill, pat is a vitim of government hype and poorly designed protective equipment.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST

    VQ's analysis was hilarious!

    by rbatty024

    First off, the idea that someone who doesn't like heroes shouldn't work in comic books is just plain wrong. Yes, that makes complete sense because every comic book is about superheroes (dripping sarcasm). Unlike the United States, where superheroes have become incredibly popular for various historical reasons, superheroes aren't as prominent in British comic books, which is where Moore got his start. <p> Moore wrote a detailed and historically aware graphic novel detailing fascism. It was called V for Vendetta. While Watchmen was about the dangers of unchecked power, in government as well as elsewhere, it was hardly about fascism. Try reading the book sometime (or a book for that matter). <p> After those 5,000 years of "glorious human history" it turns out the last one-hundred years was the most violent on record with the largest number of genocides and deaths. If that doesn't at least make you stop and question your concept of progress then you are a lost ideologue. <p> Moore never defends Communism. Both sides can be wrong, but just because the other side is also wrong does not justify toppling democratically elected governments in South America. Also, what helped us get through the cold war without nuclear holocaust is that there were some presidents on both sides who were capable of finding middle ground with the enemy. You should see the documentary "Fog of War" where McNamara explains that during the cold war, despite encouragement from the hardliners to escalate military involvement in Cuba, JFK listened to a cabinet member who had dined with Krushchev and knew him well enough to suggest that JFK could negotiate his way out of the problem. That is the kind of smarts that got us through the cold war. <p> So, in short VQ should probably go to college or something, because if that individual came out of college with that same shallow unrealized worldview then I weep for the future of this country.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST

    I'm tired of these AICN charactictures

    by WhoDis

    AICN people should post their real photos so that they can be judged by anonymous Talkbackers.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Pat tillman also became vocally anti afghanistan war before he w

    by awepittance

    and his brother is a huge anti war activist now.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:57 p.m. CST

    I agree with pretty much every point you made

    by superfleish76

    I was exhausted last night and was struggling to stay focused, so I didn't know if my criticisms were in part do to that, but you echoed almost every thought I had about it and actually made me realize why some things just felt off. Excellent review!

  • March 6, 2009, 1:58 p.m. CST

    I'm not all hardcore Anti-War anymore....

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    ....and I have no disrespect for the troops. But I just projectile shit on this notion that anyone in the military that dies is automatically a hero. Sorry...signing up is not enough.

  • March 6, 2009, 1:58 p.m. CST

    So...LIFELESS...just like 300

    by FleshMachine

    what a waste.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Zack Snyder deserves more credit.

    by BMacSmith

  • March 6, 2009, 2:03 p.m. CST

    you know what movie rocked? CORALINE

    by BMacSmith

    i just saw it. better than Wall-E and Kung Fu Panda put together. and thats saying alot.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:04 p.m. CST

    I always agree with you

    by Aeghast

    ..except fot this time, haha. still, great review (as usual) You really shoud write more reviews

  • March 6, 2009, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Taken was good

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Shitty, but good

  • March 6, 2009, 2:08 p.m. CST

    You know what this website could use?

    by rev_skarekroe

    Some articles about Watchmen.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:08 p.m. CST

    DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    by bacci40

    guess you missed how we got into a war in iraq because a president and his intelligence advisor scared us with visions of nuclear mushrooms<P> if people dont have the ability to use their imaginations and compare times and circumstances, that is not the fault of the film maker<P> which is why, "nothing ever ends", should not be a throwaway line<P> i watched "on the beach" last nite. it is not quaint. it is depressing and scary as hell (but the score sucks)

  • March 6, 2009, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Malin Akerman was terrible

    by Cruel_Kingdom

    I really loved this movie, but that bitch is awful. Why do they keep giving her work? Ugh.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Also a criticism from DuPont I don't find valid...

    by D.Vader

    The missing 360 shot of dead bodies. Can't really do that when all the bodies have been vaporized, now can we? <p> Sure, maybe a few more shots of the destruction, maybe there are some dead bodies *near* the crater. But you can't do the same thing as those splash pages when the method of destruction has been changed.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:13 p.m. CST

    People who don't understand Watchmen...

    by Cruel_Kingdom

    should really stick to Dick and Jane books and those fucking Fantastic 4 movies, because they are morons.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Love Alexandra but can't help but feel

    by smackfu

    that her movie-going companions are made-up. Those quotes read like a fictional focus group, meant to give added weight to the reviewers opinions.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Great review and this is why I'm not paying to see this...

    by Rupee88

    I don't pay for "meh". They fucked up too much of it to make what they did get right worth it.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:18 p.m. CST

    V.Q. Is Right.

    by DukeOfSpiders

    Alan Moore does hate heroes and superheroes. He doesn't get them. He never has.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Thanks, yanks.

    by fitzcarraldo2

    Cheers for fucking up Watchmen because you were too pussified to take the proper ending. Why don't you shoot John Lennon while you're about it? Oh, you did.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:20 p.m. CST

    So it sucks

    by AlwaysThere

    Can't win them all.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:21 p.m. CST

    That Ambassador is a Jackass

    by Aquatarkusman

    First up against the wall when the revolution comes, ese!

  • March 6, 2009, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Would Tillman have been a hero

    by smackfu

    if he had given up the money and fame to join a cult that fed him poison Sunny D (A.K.A 'Sunny D')? Because both cases involve someone believing in something stupid that gets them killed. And before your righteous indignation spews out, I'd like to point out that your shared belief with Pat that it was a just cause is no more right or wrong than a cult members belief in their gig. It's just that, a belief. You can't call Pat Tillman a hero without calling the Jonestown folks heroes too. Or the Manson Family for that matter. They believed pretty strongly in what they were doing too. And like Tillman, that belief involved volunteering to kill people.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:24 p.m. CST

    The Reviewers I Respect, Like Alexandra...

    by Aquatarkusman

    ... are all in the 2.5/4 or 3/5-star "Thanks a lot for dumbing it way the fuck down, Snyder" range.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Watchmen' is a book that begs you to take its ideas seriously. A

    by Sephiroid

    ... That's true. The message that the Wathvmen comic gives, is not so optimistic...trust me. Watchmen is one of the most agnostic/atheistic/nihilistic books ever written.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:28 p.m. CST

    DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD you really need a filter

    by Talkbacker with no name

    on that stupid brain box of yours. Please for christ sake, at least take a moment to think about what you are going to say before you fill the talkbacks with your complete nonsense. You do realise you have now become the person here that people just skip past when they see you comment? <p>It's all well and good having a voice here, but what is the point if you are alone in the wilderness?

  • March 6, 2009, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Fitzcarraldo2: Lennon wanted to be an American

    by chrth

    What does that say about the Isle?

  • March 6, 2009, 2:34 p.m. CST

    SCREW THE COMIC BOOK - THE MOVIE OWNS

    by noncents

    End of story. I'm so glad I never read the over-stimulated, self-assured reviews on this site. From a critic that never read the comics, I'm glad I didn't, because this movie was SOLID.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:35 p.m. CST

    smackfu you are fail

    by BLEST

    The difference between juice drinking cults and Army volunteers, is that the latter were responding to the UNPROVOKED attack of INNOCENT CIVILIANS, including women and even children on 9/11, by signing up to go and defeat those evil people.<p>The other group is just loony.<p>EVERY troop that dies is a hero, in that they preserve liberty and freedom by fighting those that want to kill us for having it, and in turn they keep you free enough to spout your nonsenese without having to look over your shoulder.<p>Both my grandpa's who served in WWII would back hand your sorry arse if still alive.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:35 p.m. CST

    DuPont, you are flat out wrong...

    by 11ZOMBIES

    ...about #7 on your "Not so good" list. They set up the entire world being afraid of the Doc early in the film, if you would have payed attention.<p> Also, Greengrass's version would have sucked total ass- You think people are complaining about Snyder's slo-mo? Imagine if we had to sit through three hours of shaky-cam, terrorist fighting Watchmen. No thanks.<p> Sounds like another reviewer predisposed to disliking this film...

  • March 6, 2009, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Smackfu

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Heroism isn't blind adherence, following some perceived "leader" into committing atrocities. If you don't see the difference between fighting for your country to wipe out the men who planned 9/11 and killing a pregnant actress to bring about "Helter Skelter," you're just the kind of idiot who I wish *WAS* in those Twin Towers. Please die now.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:37 p.m. CST

    TOP TEN proves...

    by -guyinthebackrow

    ... that Alan Moore doesn't hate heroes. He hates unchecked power.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Bad Watchmen! Bad Bad Watchmen!

    by drdoom_v

    Roll over and play dead!

  • March 6, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Alan Moore haste Holywood...

    by Sephiroid

    ...while he sips his tea, laughing like a madman. Yes the man can write. But on the other hand, he worships a snake and is SCARY looking...

  • March 6, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST

    she's right on about the 'no squid' attack

    by snowtires

    the reason the squid worked, in the comic, was that it was an external enemy making an attack on earth. having an american made 'weapon' attack the world would only serve to unite the world against america.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:43 p.m. CST

    ReportAbuse

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Yes, the Cold War *DID* last from the 60s to the 80s, but any child of the 80s will assure you that never-ending protests of Reagan as a doddering cowboy who'd cause WWIII, Sting singing about whether or not the Russians loved their children, too, Nena and her damned red balloons, discussions of nuclear winter, MADD and "The Day After" did NOTHING to assuage the fears of children. Obviously, ADP is a child of the 80s like me.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Smackfu....

    by Alexandra.DuPont

    ... All those quotes were solicited from very separate, very real human beings with their own opinions.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:43 p.m. CST

    great review

    by DrLektor

    but V.Q. urgh, man, you shouldn't really comment on things you know nothing about. Comics. I could spend the rest of the night pointing you towards Marvel/Miracleman, "For the Man who has Everything" or "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow" or Alan Moore's Green Lantern Work, or any number of comics from the early 80's to the present just to make you eat those words and show how wrong you are. He hates superheroes? Get the fuck out of here.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:45 p.m. CST

    All I hear from this review is WAH,WAH, WAH.

    by noncents

    Especially the secondary comments from friends, but I agree with some points she made, but you know what. Go make your own movie, so you can FAIL and someone else can go WAH, WAH, WAH. Watchmen WORKED. Screw the COMIC BOOKS. Oh, the Weapon X is going to suck. Go AVATAR.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Yay, another review that cares more abut

    by Nickytea

    the political ramifications of the plot's specifics, which from my seat, is just the vestige holding up a really spectacular character drama. Manhattan's omnipotent, deterministic point of view will forever be at odds with Rorschach's unyielding nihilistic belief in man's free will. It just works.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST

    snowtires

    by 11ZOMBIES

    You are wrong, see my post above. In a news broadcast early in the film they established that THE WHOLE WORLD was afraid of Doctor Manhattan already. Add in Ozy's cancer propaganda and multiple worldwide attacks coupled with his disappearance and you have the ending of the film set up perfectly. People hanging on this simply didn't pay attention to the film's set up.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST

    noncents your post was full of...

    by Sephiroid

    ...WAH,WAH,WAH, i'm a jerk, WAH,WAH,WAH!

  • March 6, 2009, 2:50 p.m. CST

    How many reviewers does it take to review ONE movie?!

    by ALANMOORES_SQUIDBLOOD

    Man Harry, you are squeezing every ounce of news out of this movie, like Laurie Jupiter squeezes every last ounce of glowing blue goo out of Doc Manhattans dick. Enough already!

  • March 6, 2009, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Talkbacker with no name -- you're funny.

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    I'm the guy everyone ignores, thats why there is always some smug cunt like yourself quick to respond. That makes sense. Keep trying fucker. <P> Now that you went out of your way to start a dialogue, when I wasn't even fucking talking to your ignorant ass-- go ahead. Proceed to tell me why my views are wrong. I merely said I don't everyone that dies in the military should automatically be labeled a hero. Ohhhhhhhh noooo.....so controversial, I know.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:51 p.m. CST

    ALANMOORES_SQUIDBLOOD -- love the name Brother.

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

  • March 6, 2009, 2:54 p.m. CST

    "The smartest girl in the world watches Watchmen."

    by Acquanetta

    I just pray this decision hasn't cost her the title.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:54 p.m. CST

    DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I might be willing to agree with you on the military heroes deal if you'd be willing to acknowledge that getting shot in the back of the head doesn't make one a hero - or a great president. Sick to fucking death of hearing what a "great president" that philandering piece of shit was. Good for LHO.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:55 p.m. CST

    I don't understand why RH was identified by sexuality

    by chrth

    You didn't say "straight telemarketer", so why does RH need to be labelled as a lesbian?

  • March 6, 2009, 2:55 p.m. CST

    If Alexandra was the smartest girl in the world....

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    ....she would be cradling my cock in between her tits at this very moment, while I read Consumer Reports on the toilet.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by smackfu

    I fear that you'll never know just how ironic that first sentence is.

  • March 6, 2009, 2:59 p.m. CST

    I trust her reviews...

    by Lost_Horizon

    ...more than anyone associated with this site, now or in the past. Good job. The only thing I'd strongly disagree with is that I would have HATED the Greengrass adaptation. HATED it. You can't remove this story from 1985. The era is its own character. Like the Enterprise is its own character in Star Trek. I can't imagine the misogynist aspects working that well in a more modern version, either. Maybe, but... Anyway, I really liked the review. Props for the reference to "The Day After". That movie scared me absolutely shitless when I was a little kid.

  • March 6, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    Nickytea- nihlistic belief in free will?

    by D.Vader

    Isn't that, uh, a contradiction in terms?

  • March 6, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    Assassination doesn't automatically make JFK a hero or a great President, I agree. He had a lot of potential, and a lot of great ideals. Would he ever realize any of that? I don't know. Yeah, I don't just mark him down as great President because he died in office. That is bullshit. <p> But saying good for LHO is just asinine. Any citizen of this country should be angered at anyone hurting a hair on a President's fucking head, no matter what your party of choice is. Though I fantasized about urinating in W's mouth while its being pried about with surgical tools.....but come on. I wish no harm on any President. <p>Someone like Bono....who think he's the President of the fucking world.....yeah, someone needs to take that motherfucker out-- like yesterday.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:03 p.m. CST

    This is a fantastic analysis

    by filmcans

    Thank you!

  • March 6, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST

    It's been TEN minutes since my last post!!!

    by ALANMOORES_SQUIDBLOOD

    Must have a new Watchmen review to read!! Maybe you could get a different perspective, like "How does Watchmen play to the Mentally Disabled crowd?" Here's Christopher Burke with his review!!

  • March 6, 2009, 3:09 p.m. CST

    ALANMOORES_SQUIDBLOOD: We already have that one

    by chrth

    go to /node/40326 on this site

  • March 6, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST

    VQ is an idiot

    by Mattyboy122

    It's been a while since I read Watchmen but I can't recall Moore ever using the word fascist, so how he can use it so much that it becomes meaningless is beyond me. Furthermore, Moore is examining the implications that would come with superheroes in the real world. I don't see anyone saying Nolan hates superheroes, but The Dark Knight could be read as Gotham being worse off with Batman than without. <p>Furthermore, to say that Moore's fears, because they didn't come true, all of a sudden have no relevance is about the dumbest thing I've ever read. "Fears of nuclear proliferation? Who cares? The world hasn't gone up in smoke yet!" Yeah, but it could have then and it could still in the future. We can still learn lessons from the past, from warnings from the past even if the events didn't come true. And throwing Kennedy in with Truman and Reagan isn't exactly the best idea. Kennedy might not have liked communism, but he called for peaceful coexistence in the last months of his life; these calls were obviously ignored after his death.<p>And the only pretentious piece of commentary I see is what VQ had to say. And thanks for providing your thoughts on the FILM. Ass.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Is Watchmen better if you watch with a mouthful of cum?

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

  • March 6, 2009, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Snyder is a master of this formula...

    by alienindisguise

    All looks and no soul. This was ,yet again, an overhyped comic turd.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Here's how Watchmen could be liberated from the 80s

    by drturing

    By retaining at its core a VERY simple idea - what if superheroes coexisted in a world where NFL players join the military in a war on a noun, get killed by friendly fire, and then have their deaths covered up. What if superheroes were in OUR world? What the hell does a superhero even mean in a world where America gets attacked by terrorists? That shit became ULTRA RELEVANT in recent years, and poses a fascinating what if. And it could still be about these characters and what tropes and psychological detail they represent. Snyder's far too festishitically obsessed with the iconic advertising appeal of Watchmen - thinking it's Forrest Gump with superheroes. Urgh. It's Paul Greengrass Bloody Sunday with people who put on costumes to beat people up for "justice".

  • March 6, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    D.Vader - no it isn't

    by Nickytea

    Rorschach believe entirely in the choices of man ... not in a greater purpose or caustic fate. That's where I pulled the "nihilism" from. What it says for morality, I guess Rorschach doesn't quite fit that viewpoint. He's absolute morally. I guess that makes him more existential, but that word has become so diluted I hesitate to use it.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Chicks with thick cottage cheesy pussy juice turns me on...

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    ....is that weird? I dunno man. I just like to see it. I always think a female be bullshittin' me when she says her pussy is wet and shit. I mean I can feel it-- but thats lube, spit, pre-cum, etc. If I see the cheese-- I got the papers.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    DANNY GLOVER

    by ALANMOORES_SQUIDBLOOD

    It can't be regular cum. It has to be glowing blue cum.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:17 p.m. CST

    I'm thinking about changing my name to...

    by BiggusDickus

    DR. MANHATTAN'S WINKLE. Do you think my posts will have any more credence?

  • March 6, 2009, 3:17 p.m. CST

    1984 didn't actually happen!

    by Mattyboy122

    Throw all of the lessons out! Orwell was wrong! Does the book have any merit now? Nope. Any lessons to be learned? Nope. Because it didn't happen. God, VQ's an idiot.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Mattyboy122

    by hst666

    In Watchmen, I am not sure, but in Moore's introduction to Miller's collected Dark Knight Returns, I believe he does use the term fascist.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Fuck me,

    by Nickytea

    I said caustic and I meant causal. Who gives a shit.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Glowing blue cum takes us full circle back to Aunt Beru.

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    I used to always imagine that saucy bitch chugging the milky blue cum down. <p>I mean-- she's sorta got a mustache, but thats no problem when she's blowing me. Not like I can feel a little fuzz on the lip through my dick hair anyway, you know what I'm sayin? <P>Pass the celery sticks.....beeeyatch.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:21 p.m. CST

    I GUESS DICKHEAD PLANS ON HAVING A MOUTHFUL OF CUM

    by I am the Terminator

    when he watches Watchmen. aha ha!<P>why does he even come here anyway? Just ban his stupid ass!

  • March 6, 2009, 3:23 p.m. CST

    You should be happy I'm behind T4.

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    Now fuck off and get asshole gobbling colon cancer.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:24 p.m. CST

    drturing: The problem with updating

    by chrth

    Watchmen asks a question that is extremely relevant to those who lived/grew up in The Cold War: what could possibly be worse than nuclear annihilation? What could pull everyone back from the brink?<p> If you update it to today, you can't ask that question. Because we're not at the brink. If you reset the timeframe of Watchmen, "today" would be the day that Ozymandias tried to form a super-group and Comedian burned the map. That's the point that we're (hypothetically) at now. So if you want to "modernize" it, you actually have to push it 20-30 years down the road. That might be a harder sell than keeping it in the 80s (especially since you'd have to fabricate both a new opponent to the US and a hypothetical future with a war like Vietnam -- and no, you could not do it with Iraq because despite what the Internet says, the two do not compare. In short, you run the risk of fictionalizing it so much that you lose the relevancy angle.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:24 p.m. CST

    smackfu, you cock

    by teh awesome

    Tell me how any of those other people or groups humbly volunteered their own time and lives in the defence their nation/countrymen/beliefs? Your attempts at depth and understanding only exposes your deep seeded hatred and shame for someone doing something you could never do. Coward.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Was with it until VQ...

    by halsolo

    I'll say its good to voice your opinions especially when they counter the popular opinion, but can't help thinking you are WRONG WRONG WRONG. Moore doesn't hate heroes, and I'd argue of all writers in comics he LOVES his characters, flawed and rotten to the core as he may write them, more than any other mainstream writer (your argument may be more sound for someone like Ennis or Ellis) - I don't think anyone who hated his characters would possibly write them so well and give them such memorable deaths in WATCHMEN, such genuine regret, or in the case of Dan and Laurie, perhaps the happy ending they both really wanted more than a career in tights. Moore NEVER wrote JOKER as the result of Batman for one thing - that was canon long before he tackled KILLING JOKE - and again, while I think that its a mediocre Batman story for the most part, it DOES have a PERFECT final conversation between them. If anything, I'd argue that Moore finds more empathy for the creation of his gods and monsters in the sadness and random events of life which lead these folk to their ends. One doesn't have to blindly follow without questioning to be Patriotic and heroic, and Moore's characters time and time again question their place in the Pantheon of Gods and Men. He does hate senseless violence, two dimensional characterizations of women and has grown weary of writing super hero books, but that is a different beast than the Moore you describe.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:26 p.m. CST

    T4 IS GOING TO BE BEHIND YOU DICKHEAD

    by I am the Terminator

    TERMINATING YOUR ASS!<P>PWNED!

  • March 6, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    zom bot

    by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell

    jesus christ man

  • March 6, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    VQ is either an idiot or an ignoramus

    by hst666

    "But as it turns out, that entire worldview was vitiated by events. In 1989 the Berlin Wall fell and the Cold War ended. Reagan's strategic policy decisions vis-a-vis the Soviet Union were completely vindicated. MAD proved to be an effective deterrent. The conflict between the East and West was settled without a shot being fired. And, perhaps most importantly, the Truman/Kennedy/Reagan view of communism as an insidious ideology which led to violent, repressive authoritarianism was borne out."<p><p> Wow. Not a shot was fired, unless you count Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Cuba, Hungary, etc.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Every negative take on the movie seems

    by Arteska

    to have the same issues: Forest. Trees. One important point touched on this review though is how Watchmen is very much a product of its time and as a consequence plays more effectively for those with firsthand knowledge of the era. There are so many valuable flourishes and embellishments that will fly over the heads of many people but that's not really the movie's fault. I really don't know how anyone could expect much more than what Snyder delivered here. I think he did a fantastic job and the carping really just feels like built up angst in search of a target.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:30 p.m. CST

    chrth your idea of why it wouldn't work is actually good

    by drturing

    manhattan is created in the late 90s, intervenes in the first gulf war, timeline changed. our actions in the middle east with the big blue god create tons of resentment, until some of the states there get a nuclear bomb and puts the world on the brink... Ozymandias is the figurehead for the corporate state we live in now, who decides he needs to engineer - in a world where 9/11 never took place - something truly shocking to unite the world. That sounds pretty damn interesting. <p> The real clusterfuck would be what does Watchmen do to a world where crony capitalism has brought us to the precipice of utter devestation. What could Manhattan do about subprimes and credit default swaps?

  • March 6, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST

    chrth, stupidest quote ever

    by drturing

    "we're not at the brink"<p> Said on March 6th, 2009, when capitalism is about to implode and wiping out countless value that has been created in its name.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:32 p.m. CST

    At least we can all agree that VQ is a tool

    by drturing

    who probably whips out a giant can of lube whenever Glenn Beck makes eye contact with his audience.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Not the smartest women on earth.

    by Evangelion217

    I would have to disagree here. I felt that Snyder's characterization of the characters was fantastic, and it stayed very true to the source material. And incase some of you guys didn't notice, your suppose to laugh and giggle during the sex scene. It's a bit too empathized, but it is vert erotic, funny, and kinda beautiful. It can also be a bit disturbing, since you realize that Dan and Laurie are basically turned on by killing people, and saving people. It enhances their sex lives, and that is a very realistic take on superheroes. Alan Moore created a sexual interpretation, and a political interpretation of these characters, and Snyder fully explored that. The violence isn't entertaining, nor fun, it's simply disgusting. And with that, I think Snyder managed to capture the philosophical meaning from the GN, and how the existence of superheroes becomes a meditation on power. Moore realized this, and Snyder captured it on film. And on a technical level, it is easily the best looking superhero film to date. The performances were consistently brilliant, but Ozymandias got the shaft. And my only real complaint, is that the film is too fucking short. At 160 minutes, it goes by likr a breeze. The narrative is also kinda messy at the beginning, since I felt that there were a couple of scenes missing, and it made it feel a bit rushed at times. So yes, it has narrative problems. But since Snyder didn't really attempt to focuse alot on the plot, it becomes an engrossing, and cerebral experience. It is aestically brilliant, and each frame could of been a painting. It just felt incomplete. Something was missing, and I think it might be edited back in the director's cut. And Alexandra, stop acting like your opinion is based on some type of fact. Dr. Manhattan became an angry god, so it made sense to have him be the cause of the worlds destruction at the end. Just because he's an america, doesn't mean that the whole world would blame america for his actions. That same arguement could of been made for the Squid, and the results would still be the same. Veidt knew that killing millions of people, and blaming it somebody alien-like would unite the world in peace. It makes sense, it works, and it felt pretty coherent. Yes, I wish Dr. Manhattan's final line could of been said, but the ending still has that cynical tone with Laurie's saying it as well. And you can see that Ozymandias did have his ego crushed by Dan, since he realized that he completely crushed their friendship for good.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Alan Moore...

    by BiggusDickus

    ...eats cheese & onion crisps and drinks Marston's Pedigree.<p>True. I've seen him...

  • March 6, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    drturing: thanks, I want full writer credit ;)

    by chrth

    But crony capitalism is a symptom, not a cause. The fundamental crisis can't simply be dollars and cents. That's too simple. It has to be deeper. A Philosophy. The Cold War was a collision between two philosophies. Any future standoff would have to be similar. The hard part would be crafting one that wouldn't make the US look more right than, say, Iran (the brilliance of Moore's Watchmen is retaining Nixon as President ... it prevents an easy identification of the US as the "good guy"). Ultimately both sides are equally as culpable -- or, to put it differently, both sides would be eradicated so who cares who's right? If you make it something like the US vs Radical Islam, it doesn't work.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Oh, and the film isn't dumb down at all.

    by Evangelion217

    The one great thing about this film, is that it's not accessible to newbies at all. Even when the ending is changed to appeal to a braoder audience, it's still polarizing and kinda baffling at times. I was worried that Snyder would completely dumb it down for the masses, but it didn't happen, and it worked for me. Now bring on those extended cuts please! :)

  • March 6, 2009, 3:37 p.m. CST

    IT'S BEEN TEM MINUTES. NEW REVIEW BY FORREST GUMP

    by Stuntcock Mike

    DUH, IT HAD LOTS OF PRETTY COLORS JENNY. YOU SLUT.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:38 p.m. CST

    drturing: We're not at the brink

    by chrth

    The Employment Rate is 91.9%. About 90% of mortgages are current. Talk to me when those numbers get closer to 70%.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST

    teh awesome

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    After seeing some of the dumbest human beings I have ever met in my life have a fairly successful run in the military, I'm confident anyone could do it. I'm not saying anyone could excel in it and become someone of higher rank. But anyone with a semi-functioning brain can be a grunt that takes orders and endures years of emotional abuse. It doesn't take a brain to do that.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST

    I agree with Hasolo.

    by Evangelion217

    Moore doesn't hate superheroes/heroes. He's just honest about them. :)

  • March 6, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST

    WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE, DOUCHEPOT?

    by KosherWookie

    Come ON, you irritating woman! You have loudly and publicly retired from this site on several occasions... I'm truly sorry that the rest of your shift-mates at KFC don't want to listen to you babble about movies, but you made a promise not to inflict yourself upon us anymore! To quote Destroyo from the Tick TV series yet again: "CONFOUND YOU, YOU IRRITATING WOMAN! WILL YOUR PRATTLINGS NEVER CEASE!" Now get the fuck out of this Talkback and put away your computer. Your break's over; go and man the drive-through window.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Its polarizing and not accesible to newbies?

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    Wow....thats just what the studio wants to hear. They'll think twice about greenlighting shit like this come Monday when its officially a fucking bomb. Thanks for fucking up the prospects of cooler future projects Zach. Good job.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Dupont is another one that made a loud exit....

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    ....only to come crawling back to Harry's spider veined penis? Nice. Lets hear this tragic tale.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Comments to AdP and "V.Q."

    by NivekJ

    Everybody gets it right and wrong sometimes, so let's be fair. As for a couple of comments, I had some remarks of my own. <p>"...putting the blame on an American citizen turned into a weapon by an American laboratory accident -- superhero gone mad or no -- ultimately puts the blame for everything on America, period." So when five major American cities got bombed back to the Stone Age, that didn't put them in the clear, or at least absolve them from any blame? <p>As for VQ's comments: ""But as it turns out, that entire worldview was vitiated by events...Moore was wrong. His fears were wrong. His warnings were wrong. His fundamental view of the world was wrong." WRONG! And right, sort of. <p>VEIDT was wrong. Veidt was proven wrong by world events. Veidt was wrong in his distrust of humanity's ability to make peace. That's what makes him such a notable villain; he acted on his "world's smartest man" impulses, bereft of any hope or faith in his own kind. <p>Moore just presented what would have been. Even when he decided to kill Rorschach, it's just what would have happened. He wasn't taking a moral stance. He wasn't putting the characters or the world of Watchmen in any moral light, but instead allowing the reader to choose his or her own stance. <p>One of the triumphs of the movie is that for better or worse, it does the same thing. Viewers can come to their own conclusions, not just about how it was executed, but what it said and meant. <p>Still, the make-up was pretty bad. I mean, it looked like something out of Dick Tracy. Perhaps that was the point, but tonally, it was off. They might have not had Benjamin Button money, but subtle aging would have been more appropriate. <p>Oh, well. Hindsight is always 20/20, huh?

  • March 6, 2009, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Rorschach FUCKING DIES? FUCK YOU NivekJ!!

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    Thanks a lot asshole. You just cost Zachy boy another 10 bucks...cause I'm not seeing shit thanks to you. Fucking prick.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Dick Tracy makeup was amazing. What the fuck...

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    ...are you talking about?

  • March 6, 2009, 3:51 p.m. CST

    DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    by teh awesome

    I agree with you there, not everyone in the military is a boy scout, far from it. But I won't EVER degrade anyone for joining the US military. And I won't let some retard like smackfu make an ignorant statement like he did without a response.

  • March 6, 2009, 3:53 p.m. CST

    DG_DB: Whatever you do, don't go here

    by chrth

    http://xkcd.com/109/

  • March 6, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Holy shit...is this TB getting...political?!?!?!

    by Darth Macchio

    Been a while too! Where the hell is BSB? I'm not gonna be happy until I see those half-conversational subject lines like "DG_DB likes to much on the great pumpkins cock while wiping his fat ass with the American flag!" (sorry to single you out Danny..just an example). Or maybe I just like to come up with colorfull and absurd instults without actually having to hurl them at people. Either way: fuckin YEE HAAAAW baby!!

  • March 6, 2009, 3:57 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't say it's getting political

    by chrth

    Political would be something along the lines of "Pelosi and Reid just fucked over not only the nation, but Obama's chances of getting re-elected. If I'm Obama, I'm hoping that the Republicans take back Congress in 2010 since it'd sure as hell make his job of saving the country much easier".<p> I have no idea what that has to do with Watchmen, but it felt good to say it :P

  • March 6, 2009, 4:01 p.m. CST

    VQ - COMPLETELY WRONG

    by Max Meanie

    VQ's thesis that Moore hates heroes shows that he hasn't read much of Moore's work. Tom Strong is one pure example of Moore's ability to create heroic figures with moral stability. If anything, VQ hates WATCHMEN because he interferes with his political world view. He seems to equate the theory of Mutually Assured Destruction as the catalyst for ending the Cold War with Reagan as his personal (American) superhero. Based on that, Kennedy ended the Cold War in 1963 when he averted the world from the brink of nuclear war. Yet BOTH are wrong. After 1963, after 1985, after 1991, there are still rows & rows of intercontinental nuclear warheads pointed at the US & its allies TODAY. The USSR collapsed but its capability for war exists. So VQ needs to wake up & realize that nuclear proliferation is still the greatest threat to the world. We ain't out of the woods yet! And Alan Moore's WATCHMEN is a brilliant novel about milling that fear into an effective adventure story that deconstructs more than just super-heroes. It deconstructed VQ's naive sense of superiorty. That said I liked the film & agree with Dupont's points. The film seems incredibly rushed & too cerebral for the masses. Looking forward to an expanded DVD.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Can you imagine if this was Episode IV just coming out...

    by BiggusDickus

    ...and not Watchmen?<p>All the fanboys would be bleating about the crappy miniatures, the completely wooden leading man being too young, the princess being a totally unsympathetic bitch, the shonky cardboard cut-out bad guy, the unnecessary furry sidekick, the blatant toy-marketing opportunity droids and their Abbot & Costello overtones, and on, and on.<p>Sometimes I long for the old days of having to wait until a film came out before you formed an opinion, know what I mean? Still, you've gotta laugh, haven't you?

  • March 6, 2009, 4:09 p.m. CST

    YES!! POLITICS FUCKING RULE!! PIXAR FUCKING SUCKS!

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

  • March 6, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Agreed - VQ is wrong.

    by Zandunga

    VQ missed the boat - Moore's alternate 1985 lacks the balance of power we knew in the real 1985 by virtue of Dr. Mahattan's existence. The simpler bipolar equation between two nation states that protected us is thrown off because Dr. Manhattan makes the world a more dangerous place. I'm no rationalizing fanboy (and have only read the book once) but even the graphic novel has an article with an analysis as to why Manhattan made the Cold War more dangerous. Also, to completely destroy VQ's flimsy argument: he acts as if we have now averted disaster, when nuclear destruction is far more likely today. It's not just "old 80s paranoia"...good nuclear stewardship is an absolute illusion. The multipolar world we now live in is far more unstable, especially because it is compounded by a variety of powerful non-state actors. There is no balance and the likelihood of nuclear war is greater than ever. For a policy analyst, VQ is shockingly thin on International Relations literature.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Miss DuPont

    by blakindigo

    Simply the most coherent, well described and accurate review I've read. Thank you. You've helped bring some of my scattershot and confused impressions into focus. If only mainstream reviewers could do as much. Warmest Regards.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:20 p.m. CST

    VQ has been thoroughly schooled.

    by rbatty024

    I haven't seen a drubbing like this in a long time. I wonder how that quote was taken. Is it relayed from memory or did he actually write it down to be put on the end of the review? I almost feel bad for the guy since it makes him sound like a complete moron.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:22 p.m. CST

    lesbian filmmaker

    by Mr_X

    were the other occupations all hetrosexual? i need to know.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:38 p.m. CST

    What Alan Moore *REALLY* meant to say...

    by zinc_chameleon

    ...is that America is failing, but Britain soldiers on. Nobody won the Cold War; it just cost a lot of money and time. Clearly, if Ozymandias were alive, he'd put Canadians in charge. We're the only country up to the task of running the planet. If we screw up, we can pass the problem back to Britain.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:41 p.m. CST

    VQ is 100% correct

    by howzah

    Watchmen is just far left garbage. Ofcourse AICN is going to teabag it. The host of drones who buy into far left nonsense (Obama voters) who can't think for themselves fall right into line like good little comrades. The entire premise of Watchmen has been debunked. Its nothing but nostalgia now. And to the moron who said the current crisis is a result of capitalism. YOU ARE A TOOL. LOOKS UP COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT. Government forced loaning quotas for minorities and low income families who had no business buying a house. That's not capitalism.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Let's put an end to blaming minorities for the housing crisis.

    by rbatty024

    People have looked into the Community Reinvestment Act and noticed that banks who were under that act gave out fewer subprime loans than banks who were not subject to that act. In other words, the act had nothing to do with the housing crisis, but wacko conservatives still try and blame minorities thinking this will win their way back into America's hearts. I don't think that's happening any time soon.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:51 p.m. CST

    now, this is a review

    by illegaltouching

    less is more.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Dr. Turing...

    by Zandunga

    ...makes a good point about the excesses of the capitalist system. The fact that the USSR's regime collapsed faster than ours doesn't automatically make us right, and now we're beginning to glimpse this and feel its impact in our lives. I was reading a recent interview with Mikhail Gorbachev: "Gorbachev said the global economic crisis showed capitalism should be tempered with elements of the socialist system he played such a critical role in sweeping away. He seemed to view the global meltdown as partly the result of years of Western hubris and excess: 'The American media trumpeted ... about the victory in the Cold War, that socialism is down. This disease of extreme self-confidence led to it — the (belief) that things would always go on this way. And it did last long ... I think that now everyone is learning a hard lesson. It is necessary to overcome these mistakes of super-consumerism, of super-profits. We have to think about finding — through the G20 or other institutions — new models of development (and) cooperation.' The world should look for a composite system, he said, which incorporates 'the past experience of all that the capitalist system brings, like competitiveness, and what socialism gives — especially a social safety net.' Z here again. Bear in mind that I am not trying to demonize or glorify either system - but it is clearly time for a new paradigm that voids the horrifying pitfalls of both. Maybe one cannot expect the majority of a highly insular US population that lacks a broader global perspective to view their own system objectively, but at least there is a growing awareness that something is seriously amiss. However, to shift gears a little and return to an issue at the heart of Watchmen, Dr. Turing is totally wrong about nuclear obliteration being a thing of the past. Not only was the post-Cold War's multipolar world more dangerous, it was aggravated over the past 8 years by George W. Bush. I'm not trying to gratuitously bash Bush, but this is a fact. Regimes the world over who step up their nuclear programs are harshly criticized in US rhetoric. But under Bush Jr, the US unilaterally withdrew from the ABM Treaty, setting the stage for others to do the same. It’s the exact same thing in other areas, such as breaching the Biological Weapons Convention, or torpedoing the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. What is the message to countries like Iran when we up the ante and back them into a corner? Should they not feel threatened? At best, it’s a mixed message; at worst, it’s shaping a bleak future. In the words of the famed Immanuel Wallerstein a few years ago, “U.S. administrations have been valiantly trying to stop nuclear proliferation for fifty years. The Bush administration has managed in two short years to get North Korea, and now Iran, to speed up their programs, and not to be afraid to indicate this publicly. They have goaded North Korea into displaying its teeth of steel, offended South Korea by not taking its concerns seriously, made China more suspicious than before, and led Japan to think about becoming a nuclear power”. So yes, VQ needs to be schooled. It could be argued that nuclear weapons were a decisive stabilizer during the Cold War, but nuclear deterrence was part of a more straightforward equation then. The rules of the game have changed, and as the hegemon, the US needs to lead by example, not accelerate a multipolar nuclear crisis by creating a ripple effect that encourages others to follow suit. We may often speak of nuclear weapons in the abstract, but mustn’t forget they represent something so inconceivable that even Oppenheimer recoiled from the consequences, along with other haunted Manhattan Project scientists. The shadow of the mushroom cloud still looms large. I don’t know what’s more chilling: the prospect of nuclear war in itself, or the fact that because the Cold War is now over, we find some vague solace in the belief that a country, or a non-state actor for that matter, would never use them again.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:52 p.m. CST

    rbatty nice try

    by howzah

    But you fail to mention that the act created an environment for loans that never should had existed. That's the entire point. The government created a way, through forced regulation, to guarantee loans with tax payer money. That never existed before the CRE. Again, nice try but you fail.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:54 p.m. CST

    I feel bad for Howzah

    by Mattyboy122

    With the Cold War over, he probably had to search tirelessly for a new bogeyman. Looks like he found one minorities and low-income families. Good lookin' out, rbatty.

  • March 6, 2009, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Come off

    by blakindigo

    the silly anti-left political diatribes. Pulling Obama into the discussion of 'Watchmen' is vapid and useless. The book has enough political ideas inside it that require astute analysis; the analogies with the current administration won't really illuminate the motives of 80's era superhero deconstruction. Let's not be lazy. 'Government forced loaning quotas for minorities'? Was the Kitty Genovese incident a result of the Voting Rights Act of 1965?

  • March 6, 2009, 4:58 p.m. CST

    RE-POST from above (with paragraph breaks for easy reading!)

    by Zandunga

    Sorry about the no paragraph breaks. Re-post: Dr. Turing makes a good point about the excesses of the capitalist system. The fact that the USSR's regime collapsed faster than ours doesn't automatically make us right, and now we're beginning to glimpse this and feel its impact in our lives. I was reading a recent interview with Mikhail Gorbachev: <p> "Gorbachev said the global economic crisis showed capitalism should be tempered with elements of the socialist system he played such a critical role in sweeping away. He seemed to view the global meltdown as partly the result of years of Western hubris and excess: 'The American media trumpeted ... about the victory in the Cold War, that socialism is down. This disease of extreme self-confidence led to it — the (belief) that things would always go on this way. And it did last long ... I think that now everyone is learning a hard lesson. It is necessary to overcome these mistakes of super-consumerism, of super-profits. We have to think about finding — through the G20 or other institutions — new models of development (and) cooperation.'<p> The world should look for a composite system, he said, which incorporates 'the past experience of all that the capitalist system brings, like competitiveness, and what socialism gives — especially a social safety net.' <p> Z here again. Bear in mind that I am not trying to demonize or glorify either system - but it is clearly time for a new paradigm that voids the horrifying pitfalls of both. Maybe one cannot expect the majority of a highly insular US population that lacks a broader global perspective to view their own system objectively, but at least there is a growing awareness that something is seriously amiss. <p> However, to shift gears a little and return to an issue at the heart of Watchmen, Dr. Turing is totally wrong about nuclear obliteration being a thing of the past. Not only was the post-Cold War's multipolar world more dangerous, it was aggravated over the past 8 years by George W. Bush. I'm not trying to gratuitously bash Bush, but this is a fact. <p> Regimes the world over who step up their nuclear programs are harshly criticized in US rhetoric. But under Bush Jr, the US unilaterally withdrew from the ABM Treaty, setting the stage for others to do the same. It’s the exact same thing in other areas, such as breaching the Biological Weapons Convention, or torpedoing the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. What is the message to countries like Iran when we up the ante and back them into a corner? Should they not feel threatened? At best, it’s a mixed message; at worst, it’s shaping a bleak future. In the words of the famed Immanuel Wallerstein a few years ago, <p> “U.S. administrations have been valiantly trying to stop nuclear proliferation for fifty years. The Bush administration has managed in two short years to get North Korea, and now Iran, to speed up their programs, and not to be afraid to indicate this publicly. They have goaded North Korea into displaying its teeth of steel, offended South Korea by not taking its concerns seriously, made China more suspicious than before, and led Japan to think about becoming a nuclear power”. <p> So yes, VQ needs to be schooled. It could be argued that nuclear weapons were a decisive stabilizer during the Cold War, but nuclear deterrence was part of a more straightforward equation then. The rules of the game have changed, and as the hegemon, the US needs to lead by example, not accelerate a multipolar nuclear crisis by creating a ripple effect that encourages others to follow suit.<p> We may often speak of nuclear weapons in the abstract, but mustn’t forget they represent something so inconceivable that even Oppenheimer recoiled from the consequences, along with other haunted Manhattan Project scientists. The shadow of the mushroom cloud still looms large. I don’t know what’s more chilling: the prospect of nuclear war in itself, or the fact that because the Cold War is now over, we find some vague solace in the belief that a country, or a non-state actor for that matter, would never use them again.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Regarding Alan Moore "Worshipping a Snake"

    by Replicant23

    I know idiots in love with their own voices LOVE to oversimplify things, but if you actually knew a fucking thing about Alan Moore, you'd know that he is a magician in the true sense of the word. Yes, magic (the manipulation of reality by nonconventional means) does exist, and he is actually a master of this craft (probably why he's rich and successful and all you douchebags pushing the "worshipping a snake" meme aren't). Sorry to burst your bubble, but the ancient snake god he communes with is only one of a number of entities, both REAL AND FICTIONAL, that he summons for purposes of information retrieval, reality manipulation and so on. He does not "worship" a snake. You are oversimplifying because you are a) ignorant and b) overly simple. Losers. You may now go back to mocking a supreme creative genius whose shit you are not worthy to gaze upon, much less eat. In fact, to be perfectly accurate, you people are not worthy to eat the shit of the fly that ate the shit of a person who gazed at one of Alan Moore's turds. Have a nice day.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:06 p.m. CST

    zadunga, yes absolutely

    by drturing

    proliferation is even worse now because of the access of insane despots to nukes, hence me saying if we had manhattan go and win the first gulf war, it may have led to even more extreme and desperate measures by extremists there to get their hadns on a nuke and say blow the temple on the mount for instance. I was speaking to chrth's admonition that with the cold war removed from watchmen there's no real life precipice of destruction to propel ozy's plan. which i disagree with. <p> let's not forget that soviet sub captain who turned down an erroroeous request to launch his nukes which would've started wwiii. one person's conscience and refusal to obey orders may have saved us all from the end.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:15 p.m. CST

    howzah - you got it backwards

    by Max Meanie

    It was a lack of regulation that caused the problem not lending to minorities to own their homes. Without regulation, lenders exaggerated the loanee's wealth & the home appraisal's worth and then sold these loans as packaged deals guaranteed by grade A growth to foreign investors. These loans weren't worth the paper they were printed on and thus the market collapsed but prior to that billions were made in selling these "packages." No one FORCES a bank to sell to someone who can't pay. That's a naive & foolish view. Go to YOU TUBE and search 60 MINUTES & WORLD SAVINGS for a detailed example of how this happened. As Thomas Frank of the Wall St Journal said "Capitalism sure is fragile if subprime borrowers can ruin it."

  • March 6, 2009, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Why is everyone creaming for this review?

    by Warcraft

    It's articulate, and well written, yes, but it's bascially a complaint about what was left out or changed. It very nearly turns into a panel by panel comparison/deconstruction of the comics vs the movie, ie very boring, nerd-raging, self loving oh look at my awesome use of the english language, bull-shit.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:25 p.m. CST

    ZZZzzzZZZZzzz

    by Ky-El

    I don't know what's longer. The running time of this movie or her review. Dear God, who has the time to read this kind of Bible-esque review? Crikey.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    ignore my typo, and curse this site for not having

    by Warcraft

    a fucking edit button.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Ky-El, you know who WOULDN'T have time?

    by Warcraft

    Well, anyone who would rather spend their time actually watching a good movie rather than reading yet another nerdraging biased review of a movie, that's who.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:30 p.m. CST

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    by Sal_Bando

    ZZZZZZZZZZ Seriously, though--do we need 77 reviews of this thing-?! Big Giant Robots were needed in this from the looks. The review was carefully considered and written, but whatever dudette. <p> Mikey Bay has dibs on the sequel.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:32 p.m. CST

    chrth, it

    by drturing

  • March 6, 2009, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Yeah, there was a young kid in my crowd..

    by ClearlyBlind

    First off, I just want to say i loved the movie, I have a few minor issues, but thanks OK. Read the earlier scripts from back when this project was @ FOX and thank your lucky stars we actually got this. But whatev, the point is that when i saw the movie, there was a maybe a 11 or 12 year old in the crowd with his father. I looked at them from time to time....the kid looked bored...the father looked amazed...aat the end when we were walking out i head the kid say to his father ".....superheros are not like that..." when i heard thet, all i could think was "Exacly". Thank you Mr. Snyder, you really made a movie for us.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:34 p.m. CST

    chrth it's not "the us vs muslims" its...

    by drturing

    superheroes in a world where politics directs countries to want to destroy each other for a litany of countless reasons that are totally and wholly irrational. superheroes with their polariziing morality in a world that has no clear right or wrong. The US vs Terror is beyond stupid because it's not two nation states versus each other over a specific grieveance. It's 10000 shades of ideology disagreeing with one another to the extreme where they feel the need to blow each other up. Now put Superman in the middle of that and see how he fares.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Miss DuPont is obviously Beaks

    by seppukudkurosawa

    Come on, they both used to work at DVDJOURNAL.COM and they both have more than 100 words in their vocabulary... It's too obvious.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:35 p.m. CST

    Hey, was there any new trailers showed before Watchmen?

    by ganymede3010

    That's a pretty big film so it would make sense if a new trailer was attracted to it.

  • March 6, 2009, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Brutally murdering a child-killer ISN'T heroic?

    by BurnHollywood

    Shit, and I went and left fingerprints all over the last house I "visited"...

  • March 6, 2009, 5:56 p.m. CST

    The Final Comment By DuPont's Pal

    by Giant Ape Balls

    The book is based on a very different reality, Reagan and Carter were never elected, Nixon (one of the most reviled US Presidents) is still in power, all due to the actions of the Minutemen, who's influence Nixon has successfully nullified. Watchmen shows the worst of what could have happened when power is in the wrong hands, not what was actually going on at that time, though it does tap in to the very tangible fears of the early 80's and the Reagan era. That is what makes it relevant and horrific.

  • March 6, 2009, 6 p.m. CST

    One more piece of nerdrage from me.

    by Warcraft

    I absolutely LOVE how everyone loves to state how much Zach Snyder failed at this, and how they should have gotten someone else, when Zach is the ONLY director I've ever known in the history of film making to fight SO HARD at keeping so much of the source material in tact. Do you people even understand how truly hard he fought to give us what we have? If it weren't for him, we'd have a modern era, pg 13, teen casted, dumbed down watchmen with a freaking HAPPY ENDING. Fanboys are so godaweful, you do more HARM than good. Infact, it's like you're not even fans at all! More like a bunch of whiney children complaining about how they got a red mega man toy instead of the blue one.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Seppukudkurosawa: I'm not Beaks...

    by Alexandra.DuPont

    Love Beaks' writing and Q&As, had lunch with him once. Not him or any other AICN scribe's sock-puppet. Also, his own review of Watchmen like two posts down is splendid; why do it twice?

  • March 6, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST

    My Chemical Romance?

    by v1cious

    oh dear...

  • March 6, 2009, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Ms. DuPont, I love your reviews

    by Drunken Rage

    and if I knew you I'd probably love you, too. Incredible Sirk reference. Made me laugh out loud. I'll be seeing the movie (and probably being disappointed) tomorrow.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Gotcha!

    by seppukudkurosawa

    I was just reaching for something to say that didn't involve Reaganomics or Dannygloversdickblood, or both. I loved your review of Buckaroo Banzai, by the way.<p> (You won't deny that Herc- who is rumoured to be of the feminine persuasion- introducing most of your reviews is pretty damn fishy, though? Heh heh.)

  • March 6, 2009, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Geek Out Moment

    by Giant Ape Balls

    They're repeating the Alan Moore interview on the Culture Show (BBC 2) right now. Ooooooh...

  • March 6, 2009, 6:14 p.m. CST

    ONE MORE THING, ENDING MAKES SENSE.

    by Warcraft

    Did you guys miss the part where Laurie says, "things will be alright as long as everyone thinks jon is watching over us"? Do you know why she says that? Because world peace is being FORCED. The world is at peace because they are AFRAID that Jon will nuke the shit out of them, which is WHY multiple targets on earth are blown to pieces, not just New York. It changes the philosophy a little bit from the comics, but it WORKS. The world isn't going to blame and attack america for creating the super weapon, because they fear Jon is gonna drop the smack on them. They now have a very tangible, very REAL, angry god on their hands. It's almost biblical, because in the bible, god used to do that shit all the time. THIS ENDING IS BETTER imo.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Put Ms. DuPont on the Payroll, Harry

    by jackson healy

    I agree with Spooky2, Harry. Give Ms. DuPont money for her words. The girl can fuckin' write!

  • March 6, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST

    "Heterosexual TV Producer"

    by Professor Falcon

    That's how I'm going to start referring to myself from now on. Cause, you know, my sexual preference is so important to others.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Drunken Rage, I second that emotion!

    by seppukudkurosawa

    That Sirk reference made me laugh out loud.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:19 p.m. CST

    drturing: you're misreading my point (actually, 2 of them)

    by chrth

    My point is that you'd be hard-pressed to find some sort of opposition similar to the Cold War out of today's environment that doesn't have an instinctive "good guy" and "bad guy". I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it would require very careful creation, explanation, and consistency in order not to send up red flags in any viewer/reader.<p> Also, you didn't do a good job of comprehending my analogy of today vis a vis Watchmen. The meeting where the Comedian burned the map was after the tipping point had been reached. It's why Adrian's plan had even happened; the Comedian understood and opened Veidt's eyes. The movie doesn't take place then, though. It takes place right before the tanks go into Afghanistan, triggering the crisis. There is no analogue in today's environment. If capitalism crumbles, it'll be decades before it happens, not days. If there's another 9/11 attack, the world would not be destroyed. Even if a nuclear bomb goes off somewhere, humanity isn't doomed (like it was in the 80s when escalation was unavoidable). Another way to put it: AICN will be out of operation long before the 'tanks move into Afghanistan' in our current world. That was my point in saying you'd have to place it in the future, not today.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Brilliant as always, Ms. Dupont.

    by Boromir

    Thank you.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:23 p.m. CST

    And for the record

    by Giant Ape Balls

    He's slated the Batman backstory. "People, I'm sure have had thier parents killed in front of their eyes. I think that that would probably lead to a life in analysis and all sorts of personal problems. It probably wouldn't lead to you becoming a bat themed vigilante". He's got a point.

  • March 6, 2009, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Wake me up when the culture war is over.

    by Boromir

    V.Q. gives me the urge to laugh uproariously and vomit violently. Simultaneously. People with his worldview are always so sure that their arguments come across as sound and rational. It's ironic, then, that being taken in by their arguments would require holding a belief that's quite insane--that *every* *single* *thing* they *ever* see and experience somehow directly relates to, and inevitably proves, the greatness of Ronald Reagan. And the idea that no matter what, everything is beautiful, humans are dandy, and there's never anything to worry about as long as we all pretend to be living in a 50's sitcom. Funny...yet sick; disgusting...yet hilarious. And, of course, terrifying. And MY FUCKING GOD, but aren't we long past the point where the Pat-Tillman-and-Toby-Keith-we'll-put-a-boot-up-your-ass-'cause-that's-what-heroes-and-real-men-do crowd is given any credence whatsoever? Or is it just the few, the proud, the ass hats who still seethe over the Dixie Chicks, who are having some kind of a problem comprehending their lack of relevance?

  • March 6, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Warcraft

    by 11ZOMBIES

    Your reasoning added to what I posted above is what makes the new ending work. Those who say it doesn't are predisposed to hate.

  • March 6, 2009, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Great review

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    That was one exceptionally well-balanced, eloquent and precise film critique. I'm looking forward to seeing WATCHMEN, although I suspect I'll have issues similar to Ms. DuPont's.<BR><BR>Especially after losing the ornery but gifted and fiercely intelligent Drew McWeeny, AICN has lost a lot of former luster. As a long time member of this motley TB community, I believe Ms. DuPont's thinking and writing skills are as exceptional as Drew's, and her regular contributions would be a real boon to the site as a whole. Make it so, Harry (if you possibly can).

  • March 6, 2009, 7:04 p.m. CST

    A family of 4 sat right next to me!

    by The Reluctant Austinite

    Alexandra, I kid you not, I almost sat in front the 8 or 9 year old boy, but thought I shouldn't block his view of the horror ahead, so I sat next to them instead. It was a "Leave it to Beaver" dad, mom, 10 or 11ish girl and the boy. They got through the attempted rape and the big blue cock, but the violence ended that party. The dad whispered something to the boy and mom right as Rorschack hacked up the head of of a child killer with a hatchet, and-woosh-they were gone. They left their popcorn, drinks and candy, never to return. That kid is gonna need serious therapy!

  • March 6, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST

    kids at Watchmen

    by blah13

    Yeah, some ignorant dad decided the R-Rated flick was good for his 10 year olds. they left during the rape scene (about 20 minutes in, btw). Moron.

  • March 6, 2009, 7:12 p.m. CST

    DuPont should be a regular on AICN

    by veritasses

    .

  • March 6, 2009, 7:18 p.m. CST

    lol what don't people understand about RATED R?

    by Warcraft

    parents are fucking idiots, "norm" parents are fucking idiots, hahahahahahah. I would absolutely REFUSE to refund money to any jackass who bails on the movie because it's too violent. If i were a theater manager, I'd say what the fuck didn't you understand about RATED R? Fuck off douche.

  • March 6, 2009, 7:24 p.m. CST

    You mean...

    by Zandunga

    ....DuPont isn't paid for her reviews? Sacrilege. She should be making more money than Harry, with his biased, pointlessly long-winded, so-called reviews, <p> "Ok, so when I was 10 years old, me and my friend Tommy used to..." <p> Nobody cares, Harry. Now stop posting, just be the behind-the-scenes manager and image of the site, and start paying people like DuPont so you can get a consistent level of high quality here. It will give your site the credibility it lacks.

  • March 6, 2009, 7:35 p.m. CST

    yet one other thing.

    by Warcraft

    sure zach could have did a scene to show off the destruction, but there's just one problem. the bodies were DISINTEGRATED. what made the scene in the comic work were all the dead bodies and blood. i guess he could have just panned around to show destroyed buildings and such, but you'd all still complain so why am I bothering to argue.

  • March 6, 2009, 7:35 p.m. CST

    hey, zandunga, it's 1997

    by Jed

    they want their talkback complaints back. This. Is. A. BLOG. You tool.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Well done, m'dear. Even if I disagree with you on

    by crankyoldguy

    some points, this was a superb analysis/perspective. I liked Malin, but I'm probably just being older guy succumbing to hot-looking younger-and-than-me-for-sure woman. The anti-Moore stuff you list is hilarious and true as well. I think he really hates super-heroes too for the most part, him and Millar (Wanted - feh...). Plus, he's like addled the brain and amped up the paranoia through too many chemicals. Did I mention I'd like to offer you a scotch? Single malt, 10 years or more, of course.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:17 p.m. CST

    R means don't take kids or kidlets

    by crankyoldguy

    As a parent, I get this. Some don't. PG13 is the one that can be a gray area.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:18 p.m. CST

    what i'm confused about is

    by Prossor

    why the heck is it cold in march? fuck you clouds.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:19 p.m. CST

    and wouldn't you rather have Dickblood on...

    by crankyoldguy

    late night TV than that idiot Fallon? Just way lucky, like Ryan Cheesecrest; worked w/ him once when he was unknown and still a regular DJ and what he knew about music you could fit in petri dish. A small petri dish.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:22 p.m. CST

    Anthony Lane...

    by hiroprot23

    ...sucks. That really can't be pointed out often enough. I will never understand how someone who so reveres Evelyn Waugh could write such hollow jokey prose. And Kim Morgan is one of our greatest natural resources.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:29 p.m. CST

    I do, just want to point out...

    by Oknight

    that the first 4 chapters of Watchmen are far and away the strength of the novel-- if Snyder felt like he was letting down in the last half... well, you know, the novel does the same thing (incredibly brilliant, but don't blind yourself to the very deep flaws).

  • March 6, 2009, 8:29 p.m. CST

    King SeePOOKoo is in da Howse....

    by Sal_Bando

    .....readin', writin' and watchin' the House of Bloo Dongs. Anyways. This movie could be pretty good. Or-not. For the Uninitiated, it may be a chore to sit thru. We'll see

  • March 6, 2009, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Resolved: V.Q. is a stupid ideologue cunt.

    by Rhuragh

    The only person who seems to disagree is an equally stupid ideologue cunt (howzah). There have already been several great arguments pointing out how wrong he is, so I'll try to avoid redundancy and just add this: Ronald Reagan didn't win the Cold War. Pope John Paul II didn't win the Cold War (another annoyingly stupid suggestion). Alexander Solzhenitsyn and the Mujaheddin won the Cold War. The combined economic drains of the end of the Gulag forced-labor system and the occupation of Afghanistan bankrupted the U.S.S.R. and ended the Cold War. <BR><BR>As far as the current U.S. economic crisis goes here's the best argument I've seen pointing out that conservatives' CRA argument is bullshit: http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2008/10/cra_fannie_and.html <BR><BR>Most estimates I've seen say that about 10% of mortgages are failing. The popular truism is that Fannie and Freddie held about 50% of the mortgages in the country, and that they were both together worth about 6 trillion dollars. A guesstimate off that is that the value of the entire mortgage market is about 12 trillion. Ten percent of that is 1.2 trillion. If the hole in the economy were only 1.2 trillion then the crisis would already be over. Unfortunately, that's not what this crisis is about. The real problem lies in the mortgage derivatives markets. Specifically, the repeal of portions of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall act (through the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act), and Alan Greenspan's arguments before the Committee on Banking and Financial Services of the U.S. House on July 24, 1998, that there was no regulation necessary on the then-emerging mortgage derivatives markets because the markets would regulate themselves. Congress listened to Greenspan, who was, at the time, thought to be virtually infallible, and did not impose any regulation on the burgeoning mortgage derivatives markets. The merging of Commercial and Investment banks with Insurance companies allowed by Gramm-Leach-Bliley created conflicts of interest within the banks themselves. Mortgages themselves could only provide so much revenue in the form of interest payments. Luckily, for the Investment side of the banks anyway, they could package those mortgages into fungible derivatives in the form of CDOs and CDSs and vastly overvalue and buy and sell them on incredibly huge leverage margins. I've seen credible estimates that the entire mortgage derivative market was valued at SEVENTY-FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS (larger than the GDP of the entire planet) (for a cite, Krugman mentioned this number on his blog two or three weeks ago). It wasn't the mortgages themselves that caused the problem, they were just the trigger. The 1 trillion or so of bad sub-prime mortgages was leveraged over and over again into a hole that will probably eventually be measured in the tens of trillions of dollars. <BR><BR>The really hilarious part is that if we had just spent a trillion or so directly bailing out the owners of the failed mortgages, and putting a moratorium on the issuance and further trading of CDOs, we probably could have gracefully disentangled ourselves from this cluster-fuck. But no, that would be socialism and would interfere with the rationally self-interested invisible hand of pure unfettered laissez-faire capitalism. It would also require far more foresight than all of the people on Wall Street and the Hill have combined (minus a half-dozen or so, like Krugman, who aren't completely bug-fuck crazy). <BR><BR>Sorry for the overly-verbose digression. Oh yeah, I saw Watchman on the IMAX a few hours ago. I haven't read the comic. I thought the movie was pretty good. It's worth about a 7.5, or so, out of 10. I'd really like to see a four hour'ish Director's Cut like others here have mentioned.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Hrrm

    by seppukudkurosawa

    A talkbacker named after an obscure baseballer... Could it really be-? Hush now, chil'. We don't want the AICN staff wising up, too.<p> Seems like the last act could have been improved by throwing in a few dozen GIANT ROBOTS!1one!!

  • March 6, 2009, 8:50 p.m. CST

    "Lesbian filmmaker"

    by ReportAbuse

    I can only assume the woman specifically asked to be so identified in print. If not it would have been extremely rude on ADP's part to thusly label someone accurately or not.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:52 p.m. CST

    The ITunes Eps

    by BeatsMe

    Why is no one talking about these? Once you get used to the one-voice thing, it's pretty much brilliant. Having trouble imagining Snyder topping it. And DuPont, that review rocked as usual. Think I'm gonna wait for the Director's Cut DVD on this one.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:52 p.m. CST

    MOVIE SUCKED MORE THAN STREET FIGHTER!!!!!!!

    by Alex Mack

    What kind of gay fanboys are you that like this film? First you get all excited like giggling schoolgirls over the movie "300" which features big, sweaty, muscular men half naked wearing speedos, and now you fanboys get all excited over a movie that features full frontal male nudity!!!!!! YOU'RE SO FREAKING GAY!!! If you're gay then just come out and admit it! Seriously, how can any straight guy watch this stuff. At least "Street Fighter" had that hot ass Kristen Kruenyk or whatever the hell her name is.

  • March 6, 2009, 8:59 p.m. CST

    LOTS OF PEOPLE WALKED OUT!

    by Alex Mack

    The movie was so bad, that alot of people (non fanboys) actually walked out! And this was in Burbank. Hahahaaha! Now that was funny.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Lol, he calls us Gay then he watches Street Fighter

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Poor sad soul.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Hey Jed...

    by Zandunga

    ...I could give less than a shít what year it is - a garbage, biased review is still rubbish if Harry keeps them pouring in. I wasn't here in 97, but what does it tell you about this website that my complaint is still very much relevant and valid?<p> And what does it tell you that a pathetic, sycophantic, up-Harry's-ass child like you defends such bullshít with lame retorts? You're way out of your league, son, so piss off...and try some substance next time.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Alex Mack;...TYPES IN CAPS

    by bacci40

    TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE WILL READ HIS IDIOTIC COMMENTS<P> WELL WE HAVE, AND THEY REMAIN IDIOTIC

  • March 6, 2009, 9:12 p.m. CST

    YUP. FANBOYS ARE GAY.

    by Alex Mack

    STREET FIGHTER features a hot, tight ass girl. WATCHMEN features full frontal male nudity. I watch the movie with the hot ass girl, while you watch the movie with the full frontal male nudity. GAY people love full frontal male nudity. They're not that big on hot ass girls though. Therefore....fanboys are gay.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Disappointed in the movie

    by Earthquake WestCoast

    I never read the comic, so I can't compare it to it. But, as a movie....it was, well....it looked nice. That's all I can say about it. Hmmm...I must be losing my geekness.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Yet you named yourself after a female character

    by chrth

    Identity confusion much?

  • March 6, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST

    V.Q., like all wingnuts, is an asshat

    by bacci40

    yes, moore so hated the superhero genre, that he created the abc line of comics, as a result of his perception that superheroes were getting too dark<p> no, moore hates the comic book companies, because they have dicked him around<p> as for moore's politics and view of the world, guess vq missed when laurie (shoulda been the doc) says..."nothing ever changes"<P> like all wingnuts, the idiot forgets that america, always in need of the next boogey man, has replaced the threat of the soviet union, with the threat of islamo "fascism", right along with visions of mushroom clouds and massive death....fooking retarded wingnuts...cant we send them all to gitmo?

  • March 6, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST

    ALEX MACK...

    by Sephiroid

    ... Ahhh you are pwned by default...

  • March 6, 2009, 9:39 p.m. CST

    Yes, "lesbian filmmaker."

    by rhilton

    Yep, I gave AduP that descriptive to use, way back when I offered comments for one of the abysmal Star Wars prequels, and have used it since. But thanks for gettin' my back.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:48 p.m. CST

    "one of the abysmal Star Wars prequels"

    by chrth

    Could you narrow it down?

  • March 6, 2009, 9:49 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by Rhuragh

    I believe that descriptor is equally valid for all of the prequel material.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Another slam lucas thread?

    by lockesbrokenleg

    He didn't direct this mess at least.

  • March 6, 2009, 9:53 p.m. CST

    bacci40

    by Rhuragh

    You're forgetting that Gitmo is a resort with friendly male hazing going on. Shit, they'd probably think it was an amusement park. Throwing copies of the Koran in the toilet. Sodomizing prisoners with flashlights. Forcing prisoners into stress positions. Shit, they'd love that. Hell, it would actually save Rush some travel time. Normally he has to travel to the Dominican Republic to go on a viagra-fueled rape binge. Club Gitmo would probably save him an hour or two of flight time each way.

  • March 6, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    locke: you're right, i apologize

    by chrth

    The joke was easy so I had to go for it

  • March 6, 2009, 10:15 p.m. CST

    No prob man.

    by lockesbrokenleg

    I hate TPM as much as the next dude

  • March 6, 2009, 10:24 p.m. CST

    lockesbrokenleg

    by 11ZOMBIES

    Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Even in a Watchmen talkback you feel the need to hate on TPM? Get a fucking life.

  • March 6, 2009, 10:33 p.m. CST

    Uh, I LIKE Star Wars

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Even ROTS.

  • March 6, 2009, 10:39 p.m. CST

    ???

    by 11ZOMBIES

    Then why hate on TPM, it's just as good! BTW, I misread your earlier post, sorry 'bout that. I've been reading a renewed SW hate, guess I'm a bit touchy, what with all this mislead Watchmen hatred clouding the internets...

  • March 6, 2009, 10:40 p.m. CST

    No prob.

    by lockesbrokenleg

  • March 6, 2009, 10:49 p.m. CST

    VQ is a dumbass.

    by FluffyUnbound

    And I say that as a Reaganite. Moore isn't saying "heroes are bad". He's saying that what attracts us to comic books is the desire to see someone with unusual power or ability stepped outside of the normal channels we use to solve problems. That desire can be pretty powerful, because our normal mechanisms for solving problems can be messy, frustrating, and abysmally halting and slow. But although the desire is understandable, it's simply a FACT that the same desire underlies fascism. Moore is just showing us the overlap. And in addition to being a dumbass, VQ lacks perspective. He can't see past Moore's anti-Americanism to realize that Moore's point is easily reconcilable to the politics this guy obviously subscribes to, and which he probably shares in large part with me: Most right-wingers will nod their heads in agreement when someone accuses the left of holding unrealistic views of the possibility of "perfecting" Man or society by the application of power to force change. But although it's real easy for righties like VQ to recognize that truism when we're talking about a collectivist politician or bureaucrat, they get real twitchy when you apply it to some cultural icon they cherish. If power corrupts, that should apply to superheroes too, VQ. If a messiah complex produces disasters when it takes root in a man like Lenin, it should produce them when present in Spiderman, too. If Hayek was right that the information problem required to perfect society cannot be solved, then Ozymandias can't solve it either. Sorry. And if that means that writers will take pot shots at "heroism", then you have to suck it up and grow up.

  • March 6, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST

    The movie just pissed me off

    by Weapon M

    Period.. I dont know how much more pontificating on one movie any of us can stand. But it's just a very very different ending then was in the comics. And Snyder said if you were a real watchmen fan he doesnt see how you couldnt like the film.-- well, I say if you are a real watchmen fan, I dont see how you could like the film if it deviates from the original story. In that case just say Zack Snyders TAKE on the Watchmen. I could live with that more. No, he and everyone else propped it up as the quintessential Watchmen movie that we can all live with forever! and that was BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!

  • March 6, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Like the man said---

    by Weapon M

    NO COMPROMISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • March 6, 2009, 11:08 p.m. CST

    Weapon M

    by 11ZOMBIES

    Anyone who quotes Rorschach for truth is not to be trusted. Thanks for proving your own point.

  • March 6, 2009, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Weapon M - why?

    by Max Meanie

    Ozymandias' "solution" to preventing nuclear war was to provide a common enemy to unite nations. Granted the conjured boogeyman was changed but the goal was the same. So why do you hate the film? Nothing against your opinion but why? I understand Dupont's point. What's yours?

  • March 6, 2009, 11:12 p.m. CST

    It's strictly for the action-figure crowd.

    by Fletcher_Hanks

    Those of you who feel constantly compelled to insist that superhero comics (grown men wearing capes!) are "serious" and that buying superhero toys make you "collectors"...

  • March 6, 2009, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Worst old-age makeup in YEARS

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    Fuck, they should have just cast another actress as Silk Spectre circa 1985 if Carla Gugino's makep was going to look THAT bad.

  • March 6, 2009, 11:20 p.m. CST

    FluffyUnbound - using force is US foreign policy...

    by Max Meanie

    ...hardly the sole tactic of the left to effect change. And why is Moore anti-American or more precisely Watchmen? Because (for example) of the evils embodied in the Comedian? Authors always use alternate history to illustrate a point, in this case, the US winning Vietnam. So which is more horrible? The Comedian's atrocities or our own in the actual war? I suggest you check out "A People's History" by Howard Zinn to get some insight into the true nature of US foreign policy. I think part of Alan Moore's brilliance (& Watchmen) is that it spurs these questions in lefties & right-wingers.

  • March 6, 2009, 11:48 p.m. CST

    The make-up is going to kill Watchmen

    by NivekJ

    If this movie is going to have ANY legacy at all, it will involve the make-up being overlooked politely. By all. <p>Cannom got the Oscar? I bet even HE was surprised when he got up to that podium, considering the work he did for Watchmen was still fresh in his mind. <p>All the Squid shit was just a ploy to get you overlook the fact that the makeup was ass. Combined with oatmeal, and Silly Putty. <p>Closing note: Dickblood, if you're reading this, screw you! Spend the ten dollars, you know you wanna. What? You believe everything you read on the Internet? It's all just a series of interconnected tubes full of lies and bullshit. <p>They are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. So, go see the movie!!

  • March 6, 2009, 11:49 p.m. CST

    These People Couldn't Make Up Their Fucking Minds : )

    by PTSDPete

    Oh, and V.Q., recent history would simply beg to disagree. So SHUT THE HELL UP.

  • March 6, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST

    While I'm sure I disagree with Fluffyunbound on many issues...

    by rbatty024

    I think I can agree that Moore's comics aren't one dimensional diatribes. He obviously has liberal politics but his insight into both sides of the political perspective are what makes his work art and not propaganda. Rorschach might be a conservative, misogynist nutcase, but by the end of the comic you do end up rooting for him because he is the only one who refuses to compromise.

  • March 6, 2009, 11:51 p.m. CST

    Fletcher_Hanks

    by Dingbatty

    There is no difference between modern and contemporary superheroes and legendary demigod characters throughout the history of mythology, folklore, and literature. So none are serious or relevant or appropriate to adults? I think perhaps there is something about the aesthetic of the recent superhero that makes you feel uncomfortable? Perhaps gender identity or homophobia? -- "grown men wearing capes!" Herakles wears a cape made of a lion skin. Porthos, Athos, Aramis, and d'Artagnan wear capes. Zorro wears a cape and a mask...

  • March 6, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    And you know what else

    by PTSDPete

    ' Begs you to take it's ideas seriously, but when you do, you find it quite ugly ? '.</p> The Republican Party.</p> That's ' right ' * ahem * George W. Bush, Deregulation, Iraqui Quagmire, the Current Financial Crisis, Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbaugh. My God.</p></p> Seriously, if a party is PROVEN to be obsessed with nothing but accumulating weapons, fast-tracking Armageddon, invading nations, escalating global violence, and wishing nothing but FAILURE on their own damn president amid ECONOMIC TURMOIL, what the FUCK do you call THAT ?!?</p></p> And the Soviets gave up not because of Reagan's smarts, but because they had been dumb in the same low level that your nation has been put now, ( Afghanistan, excessive military spending ) and they've been rendered incapable of taking their own imperialist bullshit . Let's hope that you will stop taking YOURS soon.</p></p> Be a real 'freedom fighter', for a start ? Why the fuck not ? </p>

  • March 7, 2009, 12:21 a.m. CST

    V.Q.'s take on Alan Moore is dead on

    by Oberon

    Still, just the same, the book is still worth reading. And beyond that, I also think Alexandra's point about the rushed, superficial nature of the ending is dead on as well - and odd for a director who seems so incapable of restraint elsewhere.

  • March 7, 2009, 12:32 a.m. CST

    This review is 100% on the nose

    by Jack Shepherd

    Snyder's take on Watchmen is not good. Period, the end. So many missed opportunities -- chief among them Rorschach's outright murder of the child killer and the way he dispatches Big Figure during the prison-break sequence. Many reviewers have complained that the film never "stops to breathe." I'm here to tell you that this assessment is 400% true. Snyder's version of Watchmen is a bastardized version of truly great source material. Anyone who tells you otherwise is smoking the crack.

  • March 7, 2009, 12:33 a.m. CST

    And speaking of wingnuts, people

    by Oberon

    Perhaps it was too much to hope that the ideological cudgels might be left at home for the night - but, no, seemingly not. <p> We all know Moore was an a long anti-Reagan, anti-Thatcher kick at that point in his career. But whatever else is true about the flaws of the Western World then (or now), Moore was...well, my God, just dead wrong about most of it. Dead wrong about the nature of the Cold war, dead wrong about who the real fascists were - the ones with real honest-to-God goosestepping soldiers, wall to wall labor camps and a completely militarized society. This doesn't mean that everything America did, at home or in (say) Central America can be defended; but it surely says something that Moore could get away with publishing things like WATCHMEN and V FOR VENDETTA in Reagan's America and Thatcher's Britain anyway, but would have ended up like Solzhenitsyn or worse had he tried it behind the Iron Curtain. <p> Bogeymen sometimes are real. The Soviet Union was real. Its burgeoning nuclear force was real. And for an imperial power supposedly desperate to find its replacement to scare its benighted citizenry into submission, it somehow took over a decade, and a massive terrorits attack reducing downtown Manhattan to rubble to finally conjure it up. Which hardly speaks to this conspiracy's efficiency.

  • March 7, 2009, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Oberon, you are falling into the fallacy of...

    by rbatty024

    a false dichotomy. You can easily critique U.S. actions during the cold war (Pinochet, anyone?) while simultaneously not arguing that Russia was a utopia. Both countries had their faults during those years, and unfortunately it was often the third world who was stuck in the middle.

  • March 7, 2009, 1:14 a.m. CST

    This Is Not Only The Best Watchmen Review I've Read So Far...

    by ShadowVoyd

    But it actually kind of turned me on a little. Well, that or it's those pesky Dan Dreiberg "sad sack" fuck pangs again as I read over the film's "lamentables". I saw The Day After the night it premiered. I was probably on just the wrong side of the right age to see it as it left me deeply and morally afraid of the possibility of nuclear war. The post apocalyptic Terminator landscape and what led up to it wrapped me in morbid fascination. It was like staring into the eyes of a corpse just to get a glimpse of what death must feel like. I'll simply have to summon that up and remember to project at the appropriate times. And as for the lack of NYC Post-Squid carnage, well, I'll simply repeat my post from the TalkBack in Harry's review sum up what my fears were. "Well, for me anyway, the issue there was that "the squid" provided definitive evidence of "an outside, utterly alien force" as a danger to humanity as a whole, basically pushing the nations of the world to revert to turning their attention to a greater fear and a base, protective instinct to overcome their current hatred and distrust of one another. Explosions have been seen before. It's not quite as much a shock as something never before seen by the eyes of man. And it's not about rubble. It's about the city left mostly intact. It's about half the population cradled in a pool of their own blood and the remains of inhuman flesh; their heads having just been detonated from the inside out. It's about the human carnage set against something utterly inhuman. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean yeah, the Manhattan McGuffin might work too, but then it's the same argument as whether or not some scars are enough to make a man go as crazy as having whatever passes for what's left of his humanity chemically scoured from him in regard to Heath Ledger's Joker (brilliant performance in my opinion). It's semantics, but in the end, it's just not the same thing. It potentially borders on the pedestrian. Yeah, it's going to be pinned on Dr. Manhattan. And yes, he's inhuman. As he is, that would mean this aspect of his character will be played up even more, but that could also alter the dynamic of his earlier story (which paints some very human elements). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hell, maybe the dichotomy of the two will wind up giving his character the biggest thematic emotional arc of the film. And I completely get why WB would feel the need to change it, but is it enough to simply get humanity to go "hey, let's stop fighting and gang up on this big blue dick!" The motivation, the raw, unbridled fear of something so much worse and utterly unrecognizable from us out there in the universe can't be lost, or it's simply an echo of the ending. I just hope they still capture that.">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, when I typed that, I already knew it wasn't going to happen. It still sounds like a lovely time at the movies nonetheless.

  • March 7, 2009, 1:17 a.m. CST

    It doesn't matter if Moore was right about the Cold War.

    by FluffyUnbound

    What matters is whether he was right about comics. And whether any of my fellow right-wingers likes it or not, if you sit down and say to yourself one day, "You know what? I can do a better job personally of dispensing justice to the world than our corrupt legal system and effete democratic system," and you then put on a costume and start fucking people up, you are a fascist. Period. End of sentence. Peron and Mussolini wore pretty uniforms, and you wear a cape, but otherwise all the rest is the same. And not to go all Jonah Goldberg on you, since Goldberg sucks cock, but if you put on the cape you're also a progressive, because you believe that taking direct action to sweep aside existing social relationships and rights will lead to a better world. That's what is so distressing about hearing the Free Republic crowd get all riled up about how Moore hates "heroes" - it's just galling how much they fail to realize that their cultural icons are compromised by progressivism. They're expending energy to defend icons that spring from the tradition of their enemies. They think, "If I grew up with it, it must be 'conservative'," and nothing could be further from the truth. Moore's personal politics were pretty wrong, but his deconstruction of comics was more right than I think even he knows.

  • March 7, 2009, 1:17 a.m. CST

    Mortally

    by ShadowVoyd

    Deeply and mortally afraid. I really hate the lack of edit capacity. I find this having to play apologist for my own typos utterly fascist. Because it seemed like a perfectly reasonable word to use at the time.

  • March 7, 2009, 1:18 a.m. CST

    No bloody, gory ending to NYC???!!!

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    What's the POINT of seeing the movie, then? To go see sparkling blue dust particles? People should be HORRIFIED by what Ozymandias does... and see the results in the form of dead, mutilated bodies by the hundreds.<p>This is an ending that just screams "Meh." :\

  • March 7, 2009, 1:28 a.m. CST

    Oldboy doesn't

    by MetiphisLabs

    have the fucking patent on fighting a bunch of dudes down a hallway. Sorry. Fighting a bunch of dudes down a hallway, as far as I am concerned, is fair gain.

  • March 7, 2009, 2:02 a.m. CST

    Alan Moore is not God

    by enderandrew

    The theme of V for Vendetta centers around a topic I actually had my senior of high school in competitive debate, which is "be it resolved that violent revolution is a just response to oppressive government." Given that my nation was founded by such a revolution, it is hard to dismiss out of hand, but V was a terrorist. And what most people gloss over is the huge difference between targeting government/military targets, as opposed to random civilians.<p>Guy Fawkes, who is obviously the huge inspiration for V, wanted to blow on parliament. He wasn't targeting civilians, and I find it hard to celebrate V, who isn't a hero. He is a confused terrorist.<p>Between V and Watchmen, Moore seems to send a message that perhaps anarchy is so good, it should be the law.<p>However, in the absence of power, another power rises. And those in power usually will do whatever it takes to stay in power. Do you trade one fascist for another?<p>Ozymandias wants to wrestle control of the world secretly because he doesn't trust those in power because they might kill others. So he does kill others because he is so trustworthy? And for all the sacrifice, Rorshack's journal still gets out, so the world is far from safe.<p>The Cold War was created by fear, and not even Dr. Manhattan can alter human nature. Murdering millions of human lives doesn't alter that.<p>It is a bold move to blur the lines between protagonist and antagonist, but the lines aren't blurred. VC or whomever got it right. Moore seems to hate everyone, and declare them all to be fascists. His story has no protagonists whatsoever. And the supposed justification that carries the arch is flawed, as history has vindicated.<p>Moore is a talented writer, but he is also a prick, and perhaps a little insane. It is insanely arrogant to assume his tale can not be told in another way. So to those who insist he is some deity, and that is source material is sancrosanct, know that the film did not need a fucking squid. The themes are on display here in full force.<p>Just as this was a landmark comic, in many ways this will be a landmark film. I may be in a very small minority here, but I am more impressed with the adaptation than perhaps the original story.

  • March 7, 2009, 2:06 a.m. CST

    TheGhostWhoLurks

    by enderandrew

    I get the impression that Moore suggested everyone was wrong, and thusly he lingered on the carnage in NYC. Snyder's film attempts to vindicate Ozymandias. I wouldn't vindicate Ozymandias so much, however if absolutely no one was right, what the fuck is the point? Perhaps Moore in his arrogance uses Dr. Manhattan primarily as his voice, and wants to suggest that their is no point, and no end. But that is just bullshit posturing.

  • March 7, 2009, 2:59 a.m. CST

    Best review I've read so far...

    by utlima ratio

    Can't help but agree on just about everything and yeah, VQ has absolutely no idea what he's talking about when it comes to Moore's work. If he'd bothered to read Miracle Man, the legendary Superman story "Whatever Happened to the Man Of Tomorrow", Supreme, or Top Ten he'd realize that there's probably no other writer working in comics that loves superheroes as much as Moore. Yes, Moore deconstructs superheroes but he does it with such an attention to detail and a reverence to comics' history that it could only be done by someone who truly loves and understands the subject.

  • March 7, 2009, 5:51 a.m. CST

    Fluff Unbound, VQ and getting past superhero deconstruction.

    by Sithtastic

    As a fellow Reaganite, who grew up in the 80's, Fluffy, I have to admire your tenacity in all of this, though I definitely disagree with your take on Jonah Goldberg. If an individual takes it upon themselves to make the world a better place and wants people to agree to their respective POV or else, there is a tendency to call that person a "fascist". Moore's putting the superhero through the wringer of different archetypes did not necessarily means he hated heroes. On that much, I will disagree with VQ. Moore puts heroes through hell and makes them fallible. That's not a bad thing. It did not always make them Mussolinis in waiting. But let's not kid ourselves, Moore always has carried his political baggage around with him (As was the case in V for Vendetta.), but in Watchmen he goes a different route, in showing that if we place too much stock in very human heroes being more than human, we're simply asking for trouble. It pays to go back and read the "Under the Hood" excerpts (where Hollis Mason explains he felt the heroes were indeed fascist) and interviews of a Rolling Stone type mag with Ozymandias (wherein ol' Ozy comes off like a progressive softie, when the reader now knows he's the villian). That said, I tend to agree with you more on balance than disagree.

  • March 7, 2009, 5:56 a.m. CST

    "If anyone sat next to a parent...

    by Kid Z

    ... who took their kids to this thinking it's just another capes-and-tights movie, please tell your story in TalkBack; I can't imagine it was pretty, and maybe it was hilarious" LMAO! God I wish there were more women around like you.

  • March 7, 2009, 6 a.m. CST

    I give Malin Akerman a pass

    by Six Demon Bag

    yes her line readings were wooden, but i always saw Laurie as a flake anyway, as detached from society as Dr Manhatttan so she WOULD be socially awkward and talking to people would be kinda 'new' to her...just my take

  • March 7, 2009, 6:01 a.m. CST

    Just don't tell HAley in person that he's "tiny"...

    by Kid Z

    ...he'll wrap a towel around his hand an bust ya in the chops! (Props to Moocher!)

  • ... Yep! And everyone with a nuke would be launching them at the good ol' USA about 10 seconds later. You don't have to be the "smartest man in the world" to realize this fact. But then, Snyder's on the opposite end of the "smart" spectrum, isn't he?

  • March 7, 2009, 6:24 a.m. CST

    The "Moore thinks all heroes are fascists" guy...

    by Kid Z

    ...couldn't be more wrong. Read "Whatever Happened to the Man of Steel" for crying out loud, in between all your bitch seessions about Obama on FAUX News.

  • March 7, 2009, 6:35 a.m. CST

    Real heroes are actually...

    by Kid Z

    ...Just well-trained, competent men and women who keep their wits about them in times of trouble and do the job they were trained to do. Think Captain "Sulley" Sullenberger. The plane's engines are out. If I crash into NYC it'll be a mega-disaster. I can't get to an airstrip... okay... let's glide this sucker into the Hudson. At least we won't kill thousands if it doesn't work out. Dude just cowboyed-up and did his FN job. That's a hero!

  • March 7, 2009, 7:33 a.m. CST

    No dead bodies in New York becasues ...

    by Shan

    ... I'm not completely sure about this but I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that the makers of the film weren't allowed to show piles of corpses everywhere and had to leave out the dead bodies.

  • March 7, 2009, 9:29 a.m. CST

    and rbatty, you are falling into the false dichotomy of

    by Oberon

    ...moral equivalence. To argue that the U.S. was wrong in doing/permitting X,Y, or Z is not to put it anywhere near the same moral territory of a regime which was responsible for the extermination of 20 million or more of its own citizens and the brutal incarceration of many millions more, and was far more brutal in its expansionist policies than the U.S. ever was. <p> And it is precisely this kind of equivalence that I think Moore, for all of his considerable gifts, tends to fall into as well. Solzhenitsyn spared no lack of criticisms for the failings of the U.S.., but there was never the slightest doubt in his mind which side needed to lose the Cold War; which side was, at root, utterly illegitimate.

  • March 7, 2009, 9:35 a.m. CST

    One more thought on Moore and VQ and heroes

    by Oberon

    I *do* agree with those aficionados of Alan Moore's work that VQ was not entirely fair to Moore's understanding of heroes and superheroes. To the extent that his mid-80's work is in play, he has something of a point; but it is not fair to fail to examine Moore's wider body of work (like Miracle Man), which shows a more nuanced view. For whatever reason, however, Moore seemed to be in a darker, more cynical place back then; and my suspicion is that VQ really isn't basing his view on anything but that narrow spectrum of Moore's work.

  • March 7, 2009, 9:40 a.m. CST

    TALKBACKER

    by southafricanguy

    please dont waste your time talking to dannydickhead, he is like (or actually is) an obnoxious, infantile child that spouts whatever inane drivel pops into his severly maladjusted 2 brain cells. Really I have heard comments from retarded mongoloids that make more sense and show a better use of logic and reason

  • March 7, 2009, 11 a.m. CST

    DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    by BlackPrince

    fair enough to your comment about whether or not everyone that dies in the military is a hero...I'm a reservist because I like it, not because I want to "serve" my country, and the same goes for most soldiers. Its a job that some people like more than others. To suggest that its some sort of amazing "service" is not accurate. Many people join for many different reasons: some for college tuition, some to get out of a 2-bit town, and others yes, because they WANT to SERVE their country, and THOSE individuals (like Tillman) if they die, are WITHOUT A DOUBT heroes!

  • March 7, 2009, 11:02 a.m. CST

    SmackFu

    by BlackPrince

    Are u a pacifist? If not, STFU re: ur comment about killing people. Your analogy was incredibly stupid and lame, as has been pointed out by many Talkbackers

  • March 7, 2009, 11:05 a.m. CST

    DANNYGLOVERS

    by BlackPrince

    Yes there are some dumb people in the military, and yes many people could do the job of the average grunt. That being said, it doesn't take away from the fact that its a VERY hard job considering how little you get paid. Also there are some amazing people in the military who have shining intellects like Gen. Colin Powell, and Wesley Clark. But yes I find that in the States, there is a religion of so-called patriotism that extends in an abstract sense to the military, but sadly not in a concrete sense (benefits, medical care, etc). I personally find this "religion" misguided, if only because its only hollow faith.

  • March 7, 2009, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Oberon and the nobility of the American state.

    by Zandunga

    Oberon, I disagree with your view. How can you claim that the US has any kind of moral high ground? One can hardly expect us Americans to be entirely objective about our own nation, but brutality takes on different forms, some of which are more evident way, but in the end, such a comparison is a hollow rationalization. Morality shouldn't even be part of the comparison because, let's face it, the US is completely amoral, much as our flag-waving compatriots would have us believe otherwise. The country's actions are a function of perceived self-interest and there is more innocent blood on US hands than you could ever wash off. <p> There are numerous well-documented cases of US sponsored terrorism rivaling any of our current or former enemies. For every murderous Stalin or extremist cell that has detonated a bomb in a Tel Aviv shopping mall, we can see an equal or greater danger on the opposite end, be it a highly influential Edward Teller or a gung-ho General MacArthur pushing for the president to drop 50 nuclear warheads over civilian populations in mainland China. Any of our remaining notions on the nobility of US foreign policy should be disabused by looking at its history of aiding or propping up some of the most ruthless dictators in history: Pinochet, Duvalier, Stroessner, Somoza, and so on…fine gents all. <p> We don’t even have to venture into the murky Reagan years and talk about cases of US sponsored terrorism in Lebanon, El Salvador or Tunisia. To cite just one recent example, in the late 1990s, Clinton knowingly provided 80% of the arms for Turkey’s counter-insurgency campaign against the Kurds, killing tens of thousands, driving 2 to 3 million out of their homes, leaving 3,500 villages destroyed. We’re talking about outright slaughter and atrocities on a grand scale. It comes as no shock that the arms flow from the United States declined in 1999 when Turkey achieved its goal. Or we can talk about the enormous toll on the Sudanese population after the US destroyed the Al Shifa facility, which manufactured medicines for civilians. Or how in Nicaragua, US policy was to attack so-called “soft targets”, civilian targets like health clinics and agricultural collectives. These people were funded, trained, and directed by the US, which controlled Nicaraguan air space. <p> It may often work on a less publicized scale, but the hegemon coldly considered these things optimal for the global picture of its interests. This nation simply does what it must to maintain its hegemony tooth and nail (often on target, sometimes grossly miscalculating, as in the case of the current Iraq war). I'm not trying to demonize the US, but why must we believe in all this freedom bullshít and not just accept what we are? That we're just as blasé about being horrible as anyone else, and nothing like the bastion of enlightenment we pretend to be? The fact that we do these things while most of our population is grossly uninformed about it because they're too busy sipping the Kool Aid makes us worse, if anything. This isn't conspiracy theory here, folks, it's well-documented evidence from the annals of history that any college professor worth his salt will teach you. It's just that most Americans either don't care to know, can't be bothered, or don't have the access to such facts. <p> The concept of inherent American goodness is collectively ingrained from an early age and thus understandably lapped up by the masses. But even examples of benevolence primarily serve national self-interest: for instance, the Marshall Plan was because we could not allow a weakened Germany to sit next to the Iron Curtain, and much of foreign aid is because creating free-ridership and other benefits is necessary for our own hegemonic stability, even though there is a cost to be paid. When the cost of providing free-ridership, aid, security, etc to other nations outweighs the benefits, the US won’t do it anymore. Which is why you just shake your head when you hear tripe like, "you complainers, we're always bailing the world out and you criticize us" from the insular-minded. <p> But we have our own PR spin, just like the Soviets did. Why would anyone be surprised that we had a hand in slaughtering Kurds and directly empowered others to rape and pillage like crazy with our clear aid & strategies & arms & personnel, only for us to turn and point the finger at Saddam who, "gassed those poor, poor Kurds." I remember often hearing that as a pro-war argument from ignorant American laymen on the street, "But that terrible Saddam...he gassed his own people!". <p> The US is just as full of shít and nonchalant about bloodshed as any other empire in history, we just have shiny, pretty things that mask our true nature and misguided notions of our own nobility. So are we any better? Of course not, but hey, at least we've got some pretty cool shopping malls, In N Out burger, access to masturbatory internet material, and 24 on the telly!

  • March 7, 2009, 11:33 a.m. CST

    US Sponsored Terrorism

    by enderandrew

    We tried to assassinate foreign leaders in the past precisely because it is easier than getting in a lengthy ground war, and far fewer people have to die. But that is an unpopular move, because superpowers shouldn't do that sort of thing. In the 9/11 Comission, Congress grilled Bush repeatedly asking why we didn't just assassinate Saddam over the years, and he said it is official US policy never to do those sorts of thing again, and yet Congress kept pressing him as if that was exactly what we should do to prevent war.<p>When we hire assassins, we're a horrible terrorist state. If we get in a more traditional ground war, we're also wrong. But oddly enough, when you talk to people over in Iraq, it seems almost unanimous that people feel it was a good idea to go there in the first place and depose Saddam.<p>And while the US also armed some real fuckheads in the day (like Saddam), we did so with the orders that he would fend off Iran. We armed the Taliban to fight off Afghanistan. We never armed groups and ordered them to commit terrorist acts.

  • March 7, 2009, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Enderandrew...

    by Zandunga

    ...what in the world are you talking about? Look at some of my examples again...which are only a few among many. This isn't about a few targeted assassinations and such. <p> It isn't that we're amoral because of going to war, or because of hiring assassins or not. Or because we had good intentions in providing arms but got unwittingly screwed over by bad guys. We've intentionally murdered millions of civilians and knowingly aided bloodthristy dictators who did the same. There should be no cheap, post-hoc rationalizations for that. "We never armed groups and ordered them to commit terrorist acts"? Are you sure? Or do you maybe need to get out there and read a little and do some serious research and talk to great academics? Read my previous post again if you didn't get it.

  • March 7, 2009, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Zanduga

    by howzah

    The concept of America as evil is just as ingrained from childhood from wacko hippy parents.

  • March 7, 2009, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Howzah....

    by Zandunga

    ...nobody said "evil", don't put words in my mouth. But it is undeniably amoral. Again, because a lot of people need extra clarification: amoral, not immoral. If you cannot make the distinction, then spare me the reply. Once again - I am not demonizing America...there is much to love in this country, much that is admirable and great in its traditions, culture, political heritage, art, and so on. But the workings of policy and government - especially with regards to the world - are completely amoral. It isn't a value judgment, it just is.<p> Again, well-documented fact. I gave you specific logic, arguments and examples....you gave me, "wacko hippie parents". Far from it, my life benefited enormously through corporate capitalism and such, but I got an undergraduate degree and master's in international affairs. This is based on what I've learned, not on some biased, twisted upbringing. Many of the warped notions of nobility, on the other hand, are based on rhetoric, patriotic sentiment, and self-serving cultural leanings, not fact, not history, not education.

  • March 7, 2009, 2:14 p.m. CST

    It's a sad state of affairs

    by Gwai Lo

    When filmmakers get material THIS right and you crybabies still whine about how it's not YOUR version of the movie. Go read the Watchmen script Sam Hamm wrote in the 80s and then get down on your knees and pay your respects to Alan Moore's snake god for ensuring THAT shit didn't happen. If Watchmen the movie just showed up, based on no prior source material or maybe based on prior source material without pictures to help you read the words, you motherfuckers would be losing your minds over this shit. Why don't you go back to 1971 and write reviews about how Stanley Kubrick raped Anthony Burgess.

  • March 7, 2009, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Cut VQ some slack

    by Quin the Eskimo

    he is right after all.

  • March 7, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    The love scene in the owlship...

    by mode_7

    ...was intentionally hilarious, right? I definitely thought it was but I hear other people aren't so sure.

  • March 7, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST

    More of the same

    by Sal_Bando

    I enjoyed the movie esp the alternate history stuff-Big Bloo Guy in 'Nam knocking off the Cong in '71, Comedian as Badgeman at Dealey '63, etc. All good. The whole Nixon stuff was Hideously bad--someone said it looked like a Spitting image Puppet. No kidding. C'mon guys, what-you couldn't spend another 15 bucks on CGI F/X for his and Guguino's age-makeup? Some of that was just bad. Ditto Kissenger, though he wasn't quite Paul Sorvino as Henry K bad, I suppose. Never read the comics. Not so sure after wading thru the movie that I care too either, squid or bloo nukes or whatever. I enjoyed plenty of what was there-Horschack, Nite Owl (boys he looked like Chevy Chase did c. '85! paging FLETCH!),the whole Mars thing-but there were things missing, too. That fight in the baddies layer at the end was not so great. Ozzy looked goofy. I liked the Big Kat though. You may hate me, but I think I'd prefer the fake toon series that Watchman Spoof you've seen was 'advertising'. 'I'm Nutty!' Words to live by. Two More: Giant Robots.

  • March 7, 2009, 3:56 p.m. CST

    I wonder how many people will avoid the book. because...

    by rbatty024

    they figured they've seen the movie so why bother? Of course, people like that probably wouldn't have taken the time to read such a densely layered work of art, even if it is a comic book. Still, I would have liked discounts for those of us who read the book. Maybe they could have given us a test and if you get an A then you get in free, or maybe they would accept book reports instead. Either way I would have at least considered seeing the film if that was the case.

  • March 7, 2009, 4:08 p.m. CST

    It made less than 300 did on its opening day

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Flop

  • March 7, 2009, 4:12 p.m. CST

    TLDR

    by CatVutt

  • March 7, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST

    #7 is ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON correct

    by empyreal0

    That's exactly what I told my g/f as we left the theatre. I haven't read the comic, only read OF it. So I knew the ending, and I got why it worked. The new ending screams "American plot" despite the American cities destroyed in the aftermath. Since 9/11, when (a lot of) people can believe that it was an inside job, false-flag kind of scenario, I can't understand how anyone could walk away from Watchmen thinking Ozy's plan would work.

  • March 7, 2009, 6:43 p.m. CST

    only disagree with one thing... ok, two...

    by Maniaq

    I didn't mind Malin Akerman's performance - I thought she brought a suitably "next generation" (ie "kids today") sort of feel and it worked for me. Suitably dispassionate about the things she "should" be caring about, and really just flailing around without quite knowing what she's doing... <p> my second one came as an afterthought - I didn't really dig those first 30-odd minutes - in fact I found them to be a birrova yawn-fest... I thought Snyder took an AWFULLY long time making VERY LITTLE of a point and sure I get that he was painstakingly re-creating possibly his favourite bits from the comic, cinematically this is a REAL no-no... <p> GET THE BACKSTORY OUT AND MOVE ON! This 2hr 40min movie felt like it had about 2hrs or more of setup - and that's just way too much! That first 30-odd minutes could have achieved EXACTLY the same purpose - in about 5 minutes, maybe 10... <p> btw I don't expect anyone on here hasn't already seen it, but in case you haven't and you were considering doing the IMAX thing - DON'T!!! You DO NOT need to see a GIGANTIC blue schlong on a screen filling your entire field of vision! Snyder really is gay, isn't he?

  • March 7, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST

    "V.Q.," touches on an interesting point

    by catlettuce4

    Even I, Republican that I am, don't agree with his entire analysis. However, he brought something new to the table that does call into question how well this story works as a political parable post-1991 or so. Not only did the USSR fall more or less from within (some of us will have to agree to disagree on how much of that was due to the push Reagan gave it), but Moore postulated an ending where an outside threat would make the USA and USSR come together. However, nothing like that's ever 'worked': not Islamic terror attacks; not predictions of global warming; nothing. Instead the superpowers think "how can I make this work for me". So, with that in mind, neither version of Ozy's plan was likely to work: squid or Doc-Bomb.

  • March 7, 2009, 10:12 p.m. CST

    Why are so many supposedly heterosexual males

    by Gwai Lo

    so uncomfortable with seeing penises? You own them, don't you? You see one every day, right? You probably watch porn like every other guy, where there are cocks aplenty? So what is the big issue here? I think it's kind of cool that Snyder sees the art in male anatomy. Female anatomy in film can be both aesthetically and artistically beautiful, whether or not it is sexualized. I happen to be sexually attracted to naked chicks in movies because I'm a straight guy, but I can also appreciate the artistic beauty of the female form when it's shot by real artists, apart from sexual attraction. Kubrick comes to mind, that orgy scene in Eyes Wide Shut in particular. So why is it off limits to put a penis up on the screen? Dr. Manhattan is like the cinematic equivalent of the statue of David. The Vatican once employed an official castrator to go around knocking the penises off famous works of art, and you homophobes would have the same thing done to Manhattan to satisfy your own squeamishness with the male form. Do you see yourself in the mirror after a shower and force the gay thoughts back in their hole? Seriously, grow up please...

  • March 7, 2009, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Snyder didn't show enough death

    by Max Meanie

    That's the fault with the ending. He needed to show the devastation of all the cities. Moore's single devastation of NY shocked but in a post 9/11 world Snyder had to up the ante but by failing to show the dead bodies and the utter chaos on every level it doesn't have the same shock. Yes, an external threat would've been preferrable but having an enemy threat like Dr Manhattan who can destroy multiple cities at once is pretty fucking high-level & one that could unite all nations. Of course since 25% of the public buy into the propaganda that Bush kept us safe from attack since 2001 then 25% of the population would not buy into Big Blue 7 years later & we'd be right back where we started. Therefore you have to show a LOT of death to scare the shit out of everybody. And just think how Orwellian & oppressive that world would be.

  • March 8, 2009, 3:08 a.m. CST

    I find it incredibly ironic

    by Anthrax

    That the majority of people complaining about the lack of a Squid ending are the same ones who blasted Snyder for not being able to provide any, "Soul" to his projects. I also find it incredibly sad that anyone would try to defend this viewpoint by trying say that the squid was anything more than a mere gimmick. The Squid is about as important to what's actually going on in Watchmen as the true identity of the contents in the briefcase is in Pulp Fiction. If, after 20 years, people can't understand that, then they probably missed the point Watchmen was suggesting in the first place.

  • March 8, 2009, 6:27 a.m. CST

    Alexandra DuPont: Was Almost Right, Until She Went--Right...

    by Media Messiah

    ...a great review, suddenly turned into a pro-Republican rally? Alan Moore was correct--is correct...that Fascism leads to Fascism and you can be a liberal fascist, or a conservative fascist. He was talking about the game of good cop, bad cop...well, they are, each cop, are both on the same side...so if the bad cop is bad, you can bet, the good cop is in league with him, which makes the good cop, that much worse. <BR><BR>And every 4 years in America, we see this same game played-out in the theatre of political elections, the Democrats play the bad guys...and then, the Republicans play the bad guys... the next four years, as each, in the interim, switches hats to play the good guys. They are both the same, working to the same ends, and working toward the same evil. It is the old game of divide and conquer, we all lose, and the elite always win. The Republicans kill us hard and fast, and the Democrats kill us softly, but we are being executed...no matter what, no matter who is in charge. Can most of you honestly say that things are getting better in the world now...at present? We are in a world wide "Depression"...we are in two wars, with a 3rd threatened between Israel/Iran and the U.S. and people are losing their jobs, savings and health care? There is social unrest...banks are collasping, people are losing their homes, the stockmarket is failing--I don't know about you, but that sounds a lot like the world of The Watchmen to me?<BR><BR>The system, the real system that exists...the one hidden behind the staged dramas, of in-fighting between liberals and conservatives, reveals that the Democrats and the Republicans are ultimately the same party, and on the same side...and no matter what you call them in your country, they are all the same. When you stop to ask yourselves the following question...it is disturbing to comtemplate. What if good is in league with evil? What if the end of World War II was a negotiated staged ending...and many of the real players were never brought to justice...people like Hitler? Or how about 911, was it an inside job...or did a former U.S. government asset manage to hit our political citadel Washington D.C., and the world's financial center, that being New York City...and it went completely unpunished? Do any of you really believe that as a possibility? Where is Bin Laden??? Why did we attack Iraq when it had nothing to do with 911? How did a fully loaded passenger jet hit the side of the Pentagon...and yet, there was only a 16 foot long hole left on the side of the building, initially? Why is it that Aviation experts insist that the engines of the plane would have survived the crash...but all that was found at the scene was evidence of an engine the size of a Global Hawk or Predator drone plane...or a small missile??? How did the passports of the two lead hijackers survive the impacts at the World Trade Center in perfectly good shape? Why is it that the BBC announced...live on the air, that building number 7 had collapsed when it stood untouched and completely in-tact, approximately 22 minutes before it fell?? A female reporter and a much older male news anchor talked about its collaspes...in mournful tones...over and over again...as the building sat perfectly erect, and seemingly undamaged, behind them? And why was that footage pulled from You Tube by the BBC after being placed on the site, repeatedly by concerned BBC viewers, for the entire world to see??? I could go on, this is all factual information, and for the naysayers...you can research the information on the net, and elsewhere, for your own personal edification. <BR><BR>Alan Moore was right, and that is what is obvious...but what disturbs me is that this obvious fact has somehow escaped the otherwise lusciously intelligent mind of Ain't It Cool News.Com's resident Dominatrix...Alexandra DuPont??? <BR><BR>BTW...I hated the limited series/graphic novel...The Watchmen. It is the "My Dinner With Andre" of comic books--much like "Lesbian Bed Death"...it is largely all talk, and very little action...but if you want that, My Dinner With Andre, leaves a more satisfying taste on the palate...for what it is...sort of like the taste of, as Harry would put it..."chocolate pussy"?

  • March 8, 2009, 8:46 a.m. CST

    It was very, very awful

    by Laserhead

    Obviously made by someone who loves the book, but who is maybe not that smart a reader. The movie continually aped the style and content of the book, but only on a surface level. Lines, scenes portrayed out of context, come off as ridiculous, juvenile, or just plain confusing to anyone who hasn't read the book. It was much more childish than the comic book.<p>Terrible performances across the board, except for Rorschach. Maybe Billy Crudup gave a decent performance; who can tell? The look of the movie was silly and CGI'd-- look how the Vietnam in 'Watchmen' resembles Max Fischer's Vietnam stage play in 'Rushmore.' Slow, scattershot, and without a consistent tone or mood, with silly, overblown action-scenes and a real lack of anything adult that made the comic so good; such as its philosophical and metaphysical discussion of the nature of man and the universe. Here, the filmmaker seems to think that showing a tit and a bunch of blood equals 'adult.'<p>Really, really bad, but clearly made by someone whose heart was in the right place. Their head was just in fourth grade.

  • March 8, 2009, 8:49 a.m. CST

    Oh, yeah, and the music

    by Laserhead

    The awful, inappropriate, inconsistent use of music. One of the most bizarre cinematic choices I've seen on a big movie in a long, long time.

  • March 8, 2009, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Fairly good but nothing great.

    by Sal_Bando

    Another one of those -be thankful for what ya got- kinda things, seems to me. I never read the comics, never had the inclination, have them available certainly but they just don't interest me. So the movie hadda do it. It, kinda did. <p> I don't intend to see it again, that second half drags out badly, and I didn't find that I cared about these characters all that much save for the Owl and Horschach there(I'm nutty! Ooo ooo ooo Mr Kotter!) ya know? <p> It makes you wonder how say Greengrass or Mikey Bay (who was offered this in '03 no joke) or Aronofsky woulda done. Personally you KNOW which version I'd have liked to see--anyways. It is what it is. <p> Nixon was just-AWFUL. What the hell?

  • March 8, 2009, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Hell Yea VQ!!!

    by BobParr

    The two things liberals hate are American victory and the truth. You referenced both in one post so of course they went insane on you.

  • March 8, 2009, 11:02 a.m. CST

    No, music was perfect with two exceptions.

    by catlettuce4

    Most of the music in the movie was referenced in the comic book. The only mistakes were: (a) using "Sounds of Silence" at Eddie's funeral instead of Elvis Costello and Roy Orbison's "Comedians," which was the song used in the book; (b) that shitty cover of Dylan's "Desolation Row" that played over the end credits. It's not easy to fuck up a Dylan song but, dammit, MCR sure did.

  • March 8, 2009, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah....

    by Alexandra.DuPont

    ... All the comments at the end -- including the comments about ambivalence, Owlship jizz, "Oldboy" ripoffs, sleeping with high-class escorts, "Watchmen" being a comment on fans themselves, the awesomeness of Sapphic VJ Day kisses, and yes, Alan Moore hating heroes -- were all solicited and written by people other than yours truly, all of them friends or respected acquaintances, most of them deviating to varying degrees from my own views. It's fun to end a movie writeup this way, it is provocative, and it is democratic. It sure as hell resulted in an interesting TalkBack.

  • March 8, 2009, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Alexandra.DuPont

    by enderandrew

    Honestly, this may be the best write-up I've ever seen on a movie on this site in ten years I've been writing it.<p>Watchmen is a thought-provoking film, and one of my favorite aspects of film is seeing how other people respond to it. Not only is your review well written, I really loved that you included outside opinions in it.<p>Most critics are so arrogant, they assume their opinion is the only one that matters. Anyone else is inherently wrong, because they don't know enough about film to dissect it the way that they do.

  • March 8, 2009, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Six staggering splash pages

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    what is it with Alan Moore and that shit? He did a similar thing in Miracleman. It's the most annoying thing to hear about superhero material, but I gotta admit it is really ...adolescent.

  • March 8, 2009, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Saw it yesterday --

    by Drunken Rage

    awfully boring and boringly awful. I realize the dialogue was pretty much lifted straight from the book, but... damn, that's some shitty dialogue, sure as hell reads better than it sounds. Oh, and yes, people walked out of the screening I saw. Snyder may have done as good a job adapting it as anyone could have, but that doesn't mean adapting was a good idea to begin with. But it was better than "Streetfighter." Marginally. No, on second thought, it wasn't.

  • March 8, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Alexandra.DuPont: I Loved The Added Comments

    by Media Messiah

    The added and varied comments near the end of your review were welcomed and wonderful--thank you for that! I hope that you make it a continuing feature of your reviews as they, the added comments from reviewers pulled from the public, give us an insight into the thoughts of average people, both men, and women...and people of varying walks of life, sexuality...and career paths. <BR><BR>However, I am correct about your political views, my point in mentioning this is not to assail those views, rather, to draw you into considering the possibility, one that I see as fact, that both sides of the political debate, liberal, and conservative, are actually one side, not at the grassroots level, but certainly at the head of political establishment...they all take orders from the same people--i.e., the Bohemian Club (Grove) types of this world. The "apple" is rotten from the core, out...and that is what Alan Moore's view is...absolute power corrupts, absolutely. Clinton allowed endless mergers of corporations, during his presidency--he also signed NAFTA...and with his exit, Clinton left the doors open for Bush to exploit and further corrupt the system...and this cannot have been done by accident, but by design. And those mergers, led to the AIG's of the world...and real estate bundling as stocks, and thus the real estate market crash. The whole domino effect that is collapsing industry now, didn't just begin with Bush, but with Clinton. You can exchange one political dynasty for another, in this country or in other nations...regardless of ideology, or whether the dominant system is capitalism, communism...and or, socialism...but it all leads to the same thing, no matter which system is in place, and that would be the cancer of humans playing God, over other humans...that ultimately, even despite good intentions, always digresses into the criminal enterprise that we call government.<BR><BR>Government gives us the suppression of ideas, and idealism, the culling of self expression...of all kinds...and the end of freedom. They, our elected and appointed leaders, look at us as a herd to be controlled, and fear becomes that control. Create a problem...and allow the fearful among the people, to run to you for the solution, and the price for that solution, is always your freedom. In the old days, that tactic was called, "Throwing a rock, and hiding your hands"...no we just call it "Psi-Ops"...Psychological Operations, used on the masses, friend or foe, our "Shock and Awe" was 911, and for some, it has been the Iraq War...but did the same entity create both problems...and are they further conditioning us with the financial collapse, i.e. a second Great Depression, this time, world wide...and what will be the solution they offer when we beg for help? What price will they levy next, besides our freedoms? We are currently living through Alan Moore's Watchmen, it is unfolding right before out collective eyes, and we are the stars of this real life graphic novel...and the politicians, the elite (the captains of industry), the famous, the media, the religions (and their leaders), the heads of academia, the human powers that be, as a whole, border lines, or no border lines...are The Watchmen of this telling...but who is watching, the Watchmen...and will our story climax the way Moore predicted...or have we simply survived it for another chapter, and or, sequel?

  • March 8, 2009, 6:13 p.m. CST

    saw it on friday - it was truly awful

    by zapano

    the only redeeming thing about it was how synder brought the visual world of the comic to the big screen the rest was just pure rubbish, from uneven tone, weak acting, unimaginative use of music, no clear narrative or overall thematic sense. it was heavy handed and lacking of any sense of nuance or slight of hand. all this resulted in apiece of cinematic gobbledegook that failed to elicit any real sense of human emotion or empathy i really feel sorry for those who saw it but hadn't read the comic but the funny thing is i wouldn't be too hard on snyder as i'd normally would, moore was right, the source material does not render itself to an easy adaptation to the big screen. also synder was quite brave in many of his decisions but not brave enough to move away from the comic

  • March 8, 2009, 7 p.m. CST

    To all those falling in love with A.D.P

    by seppukudkurosawa

    It's my experience that the hotter and more literate sounding a woman is online, the more likely she's some huge, sweaty-palmed heiffer in real life. Sounding cute online is a genetic adaptation their bodies have made to remain sexual creatures. Were it not for t'internets, they'd have to resort to cats or old DVDs of George Clooney-era E.R to affirm their womenhood.<p> Unfortunately I found this out the hard way. DAMN you PfeifferGirl2800 for toying with my emotions like that! Horny geek brothers, if you must seek out company online, the uglier and shallower they sound, the more likely they're not some predatory cross between Kathy Bates and Bette Davis circa Baby Jane.

  • March 8, 2009, 7:18 p.m. CST

    She doesn

    by James_O'Nasty

  • March 8, 2009, 7:19 p.m. CST

    She doesn't eat pizza out of the garbage and doesn't

    by James_O'Nasty

    do bad shtick... This confirms she is light years ahead of Scriptgirl

  • March 8, 2009, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Alexandra DuPont: Forgive Me For My Confusion

    by Media Messiah

    Reading a long text can be like white line fever sometimes, everything seems to run into each other, thanks to the eyes amd mind playing tricks on the observer. What I assumed was the end of audience commentary, was not, and as you suggested...I attributed views of others to you, for that I apologize. My fault. <BR><BR>Thank you for a wonderful film review...and article.

  • March 8, 2009, 8:34 p.m. CST

    seppukudkurosawa

    by enderandrew

    There was a gal in LA I used to hang out with time to time. We weren't exceedingly close per se, but she seemed to want her privacy and I left it at that, but she was good friends with my girlfriend at the time.<p>She designed RPGs for a living. She LARPed with us in The Camarilla. She was brilliant, a great writer, a great roleplayer, handy with a sword, geeky and exceedingly hot.<p>Honestly, I can understand why she tried to keep her private life private. I was shocked that she wasn't constantly barraged by geek fan-boys. When my girlfriend and I split, I left California and I lost touch with her. But I believe she went on to run Guild Wars. When I talked to her boyfriend, who was an exceedingly nice guy (I've stayed in contact with him) he said he was known as the "asshole who dated her" because the entire world was constantly so jealous. I understand why, but amazingly enough (and I say this without hyperbole) my girlfriend at the time was equally as awesome. Rich, unfairly attractive, brilliant, geeky, really into porn, computers, roleplaying, sci-fi, and sports. And she was absolutely crazy about me. And yes I am an idiot for leaving that all behind. But I digress.

  • March 8, 2009, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Blah Blah Blah...

    by The Drude

    Shut the fuck up already.... so tired of it all. Go see it. Make up your own minds about it. Everyone's gone and gotten their hopes up so insanely far that there's no way it's going to satisfy you. It's a classic book with a million different layers of story. The film is genius, for what it is: a filmed version of a book. Period. If Zack Snyder wasn't the right director, who was? ANY director would have made changes, ANY adaptation would have differed from the page. Also remember that this is the theatrical cut... Snyder filmed far more than we got to see on screen. But I'm sure you'll all hate the extended cut as well, probably because you can't actually smell Rorschach or because they didn't get Dr Manhattan to play himself. Please shut up.

  • March 8, 2009, 9:37 p.m. CST

    The Nixon actor's rubbery, dick-like fake nose...

    by Kid Z

    ...was way more distracting than the CG blue dick. Also, if it was well-known that Ozy and Doc Manhattan were working together on their "unlimited energy project that mimicked DM's energy signature", wouldn't you think everyone would assume DM and Ozy were working together? Plot hole the size of the Pacific, there. Plus, Nite Owl's little pissy freak-out was just ludicrous and it was this tacked-on, Hollywood-style moral lecture that was most responsible for changing the entire message of the story. God I HATED this movie and I think I hated that more than the terrible makeup, horrendous "acting", poor line deliveries, gimmicky camera effects and bone-headed scripting. God I hope this thing's BO take sinks like the stock market next week.

  • March 8, 2009, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Nice geek tale about geek tail!

    by seppukudkurosawa

    Funnily enough, I sat behind a pretty foxy looking girl at a screening of Watchmen yesterday. She kept on quoting Alan Moore's dialogue out loud during the movie- much to the chagrin of her guyfriend. I guess there is hope for the rest of us after all.

  • March 8, 2009, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Dick Nose

    by enderandrew

    Dick's dick nose reminding me of Dan Ackroyd from Nothing But Trouble.

  • March 9, 2009, 2:43 a.m. CST

    Watchmen: The Movie...My Review

    by Media Messiah

    I can safely say that this film, The Watchmen, is the greatest comic book...to film, adaptation, ever. The Watchmen is the anti 300--it is about putting self sacrifice...ahead of selfishness, and making the most logical choice for humanity...which is largely insane...if judged by it deeds in mass, and headed toward a global murder suicide, if left to its own devices. 300, was about fascism... and applauding it...when one's heroes employ such venom...while dually taking a partisan view that fascism is wrong, when it is the enemy wielding fascist ways...as a weapon against us, the "Western World". 300 was racist and vile in its conscious embrace of that racism, it was no unintentional misstep, but a strategically timed hate piece when considering the Israeli/Iranian...and U.S. conflicts which are presently brewing over nuclear energy, etc., not 300 is an anti-social provocation to war. The Watchmen arrives as director Zack Snyder's, perhaps, subconscious apology...and recognition of his flawed earlier work. Yes...The Watchmen is the anti 300...and it works brilliantly. This film, is a cypher for our society's ills, using the super hero genre as a vector to impart a message to the youth, that we are headed toward self engineered mutual destruction...as a species, unless we choose the only alternative...and that would be peace.<BR><BR>Amazingly, the villain in this film, is the hero, symbolizing the only sane choice...in a world where its God stands aside to allow us to enact our own free will to choose life, over death and destruction. Dr. Manhattan is the representation of God...hence the reason the heroes are depicted without super powers. He stands alone, able to change everything for the better at a whim, but does nothing to solve our self created problems until we come to the conclusion that we can control our destiny by pulling back from our egos, greed and power. <BR><BR>Are there flaw in this film? Yes. The single flaw is the failure of Snyder to show that Manhattan, a being that can see parallel time lines, and thus universes, would have had to have known...Ozymandias' plan, and could have interceded to stop it...or let it be. The addition of two or three lines would have served to inform us of this, and let the consequences fall where they may. It should have been shown that Manhattan planned it all, or was duplicitous in allowing the climatic events to occur, and teeming with Ozymandias in this agenda without his, the villain's, foreknowledge. And lastly, we should have seen Ozymandias, revealing that it would only be logical that Manhattan would know his plans, the reason he proceeded on his task, sensing this unspoken...and undeclared collaboration with Dr. Manhattan, God.<BR><BR>As for the cast, Jackie Earle Haley deserves an Oscar for Best Actor...his performance was a revelation, the strongest lead actor performance, I have seen in film, in a number of years. Heath Ledger, did not deserve the Oscar, that was a sympathy vote, and The Dark Knight is not a poetic masterpiece...or Oscar worthy as a Best film candidate, however, Watchmen, because of its courage in story, and the purpose in which it was conceived deserves the Oscar for Best Picture. Will is get it? No??? Why? Because Dark Knight stole its thunder, via the many false accolades paid to the film due to Heath Ledger's untimely death, and Warner playing those false accolades to the hilt, for Oscar gold, out of sheer vanity. TDK was a badly written film...with no guts. The studio and filmmakers refused to risk losing the child and family audience by bringing us a truly daring Batman film...no, toys sales, and product tie-ins, meant more than establishing true credibility for the film, its story or characters. Watchmen gives us a real adult tale, in places that TDK would not dare go...and a villain with real purpose, beyond just being evil or cruelty, for evil and cruelty's sake. Watchmen's villain had a greater goal to justify his cruelties...where The Joker, he wished to prove that Batman's virtuous ideas could be compromised??? End of point, end of scheme...and the undoing of TDK.<BR><BR>Back to Watchmen. The ladies of Watchmen are also incredible, from two generational mother/daughter super heroes... played by Carla Gugino, and Malin Akerman, respectively. Their latex meets PVC S&M outfits will make anyone gazing upon them...want to give each much deserved blow jobs, the visual...is that stunningly sexual, it makes the mouth water in anticipation of what comes naturally. No X-Men, "We can't show women in costumes that are too revealing, here!"...sort of attitude. And these actresses deliver as actors, not just sex objects, with fully rounded empathetic performances that are emotionally moving, sexual, charismatic, and smart. As well, a culturally threatening lesbian hero, is also a stand-out...in a brief performance which carries no lines...no dialogue, whatsoever...but she is so amazingly sexual, and such a mental orgasm...one can easily imagine servicing her with clitoral stimulation...a session...as well deserved, as the oral (sex) tribute which you'll all wish you could pay to the other two actresses who serve to trigger erotism and fetish filled thoughts, through-out, this film. I am not saying this to be vulgar, but it is just an intellictual truth...as worthy as any other, so why ignore it? <BR><BR>As Dr. Manhattan, Billy Crudup is warmly touching, and yet, cerebrally cold. I have never been a fan of his before, although...I acknowledge him as a great actor, but here, for the first time, he has been given a role in which you can care about him. Mathew Goode...delivers a distant performance that, like Crudup's, towers in its reserve, but makes you feel something, deep down, something rich that speaks to your spirit. You feel the import of these performances...yes, and you know that you are witnessing great actors at work.<BR><BR>For me, Alan Moore's Watchmen was always missing something...heart, if you will, and I had hoped that a live action film could enliven his effort with the much needed...living and breathing dimension that only a live action film can deliver, with sounds, music, and the auditory atmosphere of clogged cities...and it has, big time! Bravo to all, this film smells of sex, intellect, and a message, that if we don't get our collectives acts together, we won't have a world to fight over anymore, because it will be a dead world, like Mars, hence the parallels, one that we will have destroyed by our own foolishness, by our own hands. So who's watching The Watchmen??? God, in the form of Dr. Manhattan...giving us all a Rorschach Test through the pessimistic prism of this film. This isn't about comic book characters...or super heroes...they are just iconic bread crumbs...used to lead us through this story, one that suggests the logical conclusion to humanity's lack of optimism by way of our lust for violence and power over love, sex (fucking) over making love, and conquest at any cost, even the cost of oblivion, over peace and prosperity through the sharing of resources and wealth, world wide. The only sane choice for humanity to make, if we are to survive beyond the nuclear bomb, or greater weapons that are sure to follow, its appalling genesis. This story, and film, are saying, that if you feel politically impotent, you don't have to be; take back your personal freedom from "the human powers that be"...get a hard on...man or woman...and use your erection to make a positive difference in this world, if only to put away your weapons...in order to make love, not war. Here's to that!!!

  • March 9, 2009, 2:46 a.m. CST

    Watchmen is like a Johnny Cash song

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Cool and catch at first, but then boring and pretentious as it goes on.

  • March 9, 2009, 4:12 a.m. CST

    MM : Your review

    by V'Shael

    Is a bit shit. For one thing, Snyder does have Manhattan say that he can't see the future because of tachyonic interference. He also theorises that it's because of a nuclear exchange. <p> There's plenty of other flaws in your review, but I'm not going to detail them. This is a movie review site, not a review review site after all. <p> Just saying... don't give up your day job.

  • March 9, 2009, 5:32 a.m. CST

    V'Shael: I Am Right, The Flaw Is In The Script

    by Media Messiah

    Manhattan can see parallel universes and time lines, as we agree, therefore he can see before the point of the attacks, hence, Manhattan should have been able to see the villain's plan, well before it was launched...and no tachyon interference would have been in place at that point...to block him from seeing it.

  • March 9, 2009, 7:07 a.m. CST

    Amended--Watchmen: The Movie...My Review

    by Media Messiah

    I can safely say that this film, The Watchmen, is the greatest comic book...to film, adaptation, ever. The Watchmen is the anti 300--it is about putting self sacrifice...ahead of selfishness, and making the most logical choice for humanity...which is largely an insane species...if judged by its deeds in mass, and headed toward a global murder suicide, if left to our own devices. 300, was about fascism... and applauding it...when one's heroes employ such venom...while dually taking a partisan view that fascism is only wrong, when it is the enemy wielding fascist ways...as a weapon, against us, the "Western World". 300 was racist and vile in its conscious embrace of that racism, and it was no unintentional misstep, but a strategically timed hate piece, when considering the Israeli/Iranian...and U.S. conflicts which are presently brewing over nuclear energy, etc.--no, 300 is an anti-social provocation to war. The Watchmen arrives as director Zack Snyder's, perhaps, subconscious apology for...and recognition of, his flawed earlier work. Yes...The Watchmen is the anti 300...and it works brilliantly. This film, is a cypher for our society's ills, using the super hero genre as a vector to impart a message to the youth, that we are headed toward self engineered mutual destruction...as a species, unless we choose the only alternative...and that would be, peace. <BR><BR> Amazingly, the villain in this film, is the hero, symbolizing the only sane choice...in a world where its God stands aside to allow us to, as in real life, enact our own "free will" to choose life, over death and destruction. Dr. Manhattan is the representation of God...hence, the reason the heroes are depicted without super powers, to emphasize their mortality as humans, versus a true immortal, the ubiquitous Dr. Manhattan. He, stands alone, able to change everything for the better at a whim, but does nothing to solve our self created problems, until we come to the conclusion that we can control our own destinies, by pulling back from our egos, greed, and quest power. <BR><BR> Are there flaws in this film? Yes. The single flaw, is the failure of Snyder, and company, to show that Manhattan, a being that can see parallel time lines, and thus universes, would have known...Ozymandias' plan in advance, and could have interceded to stop it...or let it be, as a part of his growing policy of none interference. The addition of two or three lines in the script would have served to inform us of this, and let the consequences fall where they may. This should have been presented as a viable plot point, one where it is revealed that Manhattan planned all of the following, or was duplicitous in allowing the climatic events to occur, therefore...teaming with Ozymandias in this agenda, without his, the villain's, foreknowledge. And lastly, we should have seen Ozymandias, reveal his own suspecions, that Manhattan's knowing of such a plan...would only be logical, the reason he proceeded on his task, sensing this unspoken...and undeclared collaboration with Dr. Manhattan, God. <BR><BR> As for the cast, Jackie Earle Haley deserves an Oscar for Best Actor...his performance was a revelation, the strongest lead actor performance, I have seen in film, in a number of years. Heath Ledger, did not deserve the Oscar, that was a sympathy vote, and The Dark Knight is not a poetic masterpiece...or Oscar worthy, as a Best Picture candidate, however, Watchmen, because of its courage...through the wealth of the story, and the purpose in which it was conceived, deserves the Oscar for Best Picture. Will is get it? No??? Why? Because Dark Knight stole its thunder, via the many false accolades paid to the film due to Heath Ledger's untimely death, and Warner playing those false accolades to the hilt, for Oscar gold, out of sheer vanity. TDK was a badly written film...with no guts. The studio and filmmakers refused to risk losing the child and family audience by bringing us a truly daring Batman film...no, toys or toy sales, and product tie-ins, to get in the way of establishing true credibility for the film, its story, or characters. Watchmen gives us a real adult tale, in places that TDK would not dare go...and a villain with real purpose, beyond just being evil, or cruel, for evil...and cruelty's sake. Watchmen's villain had a greater goal to justify his cruelties...where The Joker, he wished to only prove that Batman's virtuous ideas could be compromised??? End of point, end of scheme...and the undoing of TDK. <BR><BR> Back to Watchmen. The ladies of Watchmen are also incredible, from the two generational mother/daughter super heroes... played by Carla Gugino, and Malin Akerman, respectively, to a smaller performances by lesser players. Gugino and Akerman, cut an impressive figures in their latex, meets PVC S&M outfits, costumes that should make anyone with a pulse...want to give each of these divas much deserved blow jobs, aesthetically, the visual, is sometimes so pleasing to the eye, it makes the mouth water in anticipation of what comes naturally. No X-Men, "We can't show women in costumes that are too revealing, here!"...sort of attitude...no, just breast and legs out...allure. And these actresses deliver as actors, not just sex objects, with fully rounded...empathetic performances that are emotionally moving, sexual, charismatic, and smart, they raise the bar on what could have just been sold to us as convenient flesh peddling and eye candy. As well, a culturally threatening lesbian hero, is also a stand-out...in a brief performance which carries no lines...no dialogue, whatsoever...but she is so amazingly sexual, and such a mental orgasm...one can easily imagine servicing her with clitoral stimulation...a session...as well deserved, as the oral (sex) tribute which you'll all wish you could pay to Akerman and Gugino, who serve to trigger erotism and fetish filled thoughts, through-out, the film's approximately 3...running time. I am not saying this to be vulgar, but it is just an intellictual truth...as worthy as any other, so why ignore it? <BR><BR> As Dr. Manhattan, Billy Crudup is both warmly touching, and yet, cerebrally cold...necessity demanded of the almost alien role. I have never been a fan of his before, although...I acknowledge him as a great actor, but here, for the first time, he has been given a role in which you can care about him. Like Crudup, Mathew Goode...delivers a distant performance, one that towers in its emotionless economy and reserve, while making audiences feel something, deep down, something rich...that speaks to your spirit. You feel the import of these performances...yes, and you know that you are witnessing great actors at work. <BR><BR> For me, Alan Moore's Watchmen was always missing something...heart, if you will, and I had hoped that a live action film could enliven his effort with the much needed...living and breathing dimensions, that only a live action film can deliver, born out of picture frames placed in full motion, amid accompanying sound effects, music, and the auditory atmosphere of clogged cities--and it has, done just that, come to life, big time! Bravo to all, this film smells of sex, intellect, and a message, that if we don't get our collective acts together, we won't have a world to fight over anymore, because it will be a dead world, like Mars, hence the parallels--but this world, our world, will be one that will have been destroyed by our own foolishness, by our own hands. So who's watching The Watchmen??? God, in the form of Dr. Manhattan...giving us all a Rorschach Test through the pessimistic prism of this film. This isn't about comic book characters...or super heroes...they are just iconic bread crumbs...used to lead us through this story, one that suggests the logical conclusion to humanity's lack of optimism by way of our lust for violence and power...over love, sex (fucking) over making love, and conquest at any cost, even the cost of oblivion, over peace...and prosperity...through the sharing of resources and wealth--world wide. The only sane choice for humanity to make, given these circumstances, if we are to survive beyond the nuclear bomb, or greater weapons that are sure to follow the bomb's appalling genesis. This story, and film, are saying, that if you feel politically impotent, you don't have to be; take back your personal freedom from "the human powers that be"...get a hard-on...man, or woman...and use your erection to make a positive difference in this world, if only to put away your weapons...in order to make love, not war. Here's to that!!!<BR><BR>To: V'Shael<BR><BR> Thanks for your input, I failed to vet my writing having just got in from the move and writing it cold, but thanks to your fair criticism, I did some corrections. Note: I still right about the tachyons. Smile!

  • March 9, 2009, 8:11 a.m. CST

    No dude, you're still wrong

    by V'Shael

    But it's as pointless as reprinting that longwinded "amended" review to get into it with you.

  • March 9, 2009, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Messiah

    by seppukudkurosawa

    Was...typing...like...a DC...or Marvel character...in distress...some kind of...meta...comment? Also I'm not quite sure you've figured out the art of placing commas in a sentence yet. Eeny meeny miney moe doesn't quite cut it.<p> Just being constructive, mind. :) :) :)

  • March 9, 2009, 8:52 a.m. CST

    My Review, Of Watchmen...As Intended: Sorry To All

    by Media Messiah

    Being more than a little tired and sick...has its impacts, I'm posting this as I think it's owed to you guys to get it right, if one is going to have an opinion...and forward it. Sorry for the typos and grammar issues. <BR><BR>Now, My Review...The Watchmen...as intended.<BR><BR> I can safely say that this film, The Watchmen, is the greatest comic book...to film, adaptation, ever. The Watchmen is the anti 300--it is about putting self sacrifice...ahead of selfishness, and making the most logical choice for humanity...which is largely an insane species...if judged by the wealth of its deeds, and one headed toward a consensual global murder/suicide--if left to our own devices. 300, was about fascism... and applauding it...when one's heroes employ such venom...while dually, taking a partisan view that fascism is only wrong, when it is the enemy wielding fascist ways...as a weapon...against us, the "Western World" and our socio-economic and military interests. 300 was racist and vile in its conscious embrace of that racism, and it was no unintentional misstep, but a strategically timed hate piece, when considering the Israeli/Iranian...and U.S. conflicts which are presently brewing over nuclear energy, etc.; no, 300 is an anti-social provocation to war. The Watchmen arrives as director Zack Snyder's, perhaps, subconscious apology for...and in recognition of, his flawed earlier work. Yes...The Watchmen is the anti 300...and it works brilliantly. This film, is a cypher for our society's ills, using the super hero genre as a vector to impart a message to the youth, that we are headed toward self engineered mutual destruction...as a species, unless we choose the only alternative...and that would be, peace. <BR><BR> Amazingly, the villain in this film, is the hero, symbolizing the only sane choice...in a world where its God stands aside to allow us to, as in real life, enact our own "free will" to choose life, over death and destruction. Dr. Manhattan is the representation of God...hence, the reason the heroes are depicted without super powers, to emphasize their mortality as humans, versus a true immortal, the ubiquitous Dr. Manhattan. He, stands alone, able to change everything for the better...at a whim, but does nothing to solve our self created problems, until we come to the conclusion that we can control our own destinies, by pulling back from our egos, greed, and quest for power. <BR><BR> Are there flaws in this film? Yes. The single flaw, is the failure of Snyder, and company, to show that Manhattan, a being that can see parallel time lines, and thus...universes, would have known...Ozymandias' plan in advance, and could have interceded to stop it...or let it be, as a part of his growing policy of none interference in human affairs. The addition of two or three lines in the script would have served to inform us of this, and let the consequences fall where they may. This should have been presented as a viable plot point, one where it is revealed that Manhattan planned the events from inceptions to resolution, or, was at least duplicitous in allowing the climatic events to occur, therefore...teaming with Ozymandias in this agenda, without his, the villain's, foreknowledge. And lastly, we should have seen Ozymandias, reveal his own suspicions, that Manhattan's knowing of such a plan...would only be logical, the reason he proceeded on his task, uninterrupted by Manhattan, as he sensed unspoken...and undeclared, collaboration with Dr. Manhattan, again...ostensibly God. As for the cast, Jackie Earle Haley deserves an Oscar for Best Actor...his performance was a revelation, the strongest lead actor performance, I have seen in film, in a number of years...a real tour-de-force. Heath Ledger, did not deserve the Oscar, that was a sympathy vote, and The Dark Knight is not a poetic masterpiece...or Oscar worthy, as a Best Picture candidate, however, Watchmen, because of its courage exhibited in the strength of its dense story, and the purpose...and spirit in which it was conceived, produced, and directed, deserves the Oscar for Best Picture. Will is get it? No??? Why? Because Dark Knight stole its thunder, via the many false accolades paid to the film due to Heath Ledger's untimely death, and Warner playing those false accolades to the hilt, for Oscar gold, out of sheer vanity. TDK was a badly written film...with no guts. The studio and filmmakers refused to risk losing child and family audiences by bringing us a truly daring Batman film...no, toys, toy sales, and product tie-ins, took precedence over integrity, and that got in the way of establishing any true hope of credibility for the film, its story, and characters. Watchmen gives us a real adult tale, in places that TDK would not dare go...and a villain with real purpose, beyond the standard hues of evil, or cruelty, for evil...and cruelty's sake. Watchmen's villain had a greater goal to justify his cruelties...where, The Joker, only wished to prove that Batman's virtuous ideas could be compromised??? End of point, end of scheme...and the undoing of TDK. <BR><BR> Back to Watchmen. The ladies of Watchmen are also incredible, from the two generational mother/daughter super heroes... played by Carla Gugino, and Malin Akerman, respectively, to smaller performances by lesser players. Gugino and Akerman, cut impressive figures in their latex...meets PVC S&M outfits--costumes that should remind your libido...that, like many of the characters onscreen, being human can have its more pleasant complications beyond world saving, or ending, agendas. Aesthetically, in terms of these scantly clad ladies, the visual, is sometimes so pleasing to the eye, it makes the mouth water in anticipation of what comes naturally. No X-Men, "We can't show women in costumes that are too revealing, here!"--sort of attitude...no, just unabashed in your face breasts...and legs...allure. And these actresses deliver as actors, not just as posed sex objects--here, they forward fully rounded...empathetic performances that are emotionally moving, sexual, charismatic, and smart, they raise the bar on what could have just been sold to us as convenient flesh peddling eye candy. As well, a culturally threatening lesbian hero, is also a stand-out...in a brief performance which carries no lines...no dialogue, whatsoever...but this mime like player...is so amazingly sexual, and such a mental orgasm...her mere appearance presents an indelible image that stays on your mind like the sweetest hangover. The same can be said of Akerman and Gugino, who serve to trigger eroticism and fetish filled thoughts through-out the film's approximately 3 hour...running time. I am not saying this to be vulgar, but it is just an intellectual truth...as worthy as any other, so why ignore it? <BR><BR> As Dr. Manhattan, Billy Crudup is both warmly touching, and yet, cerebrally cold...a necessity demanded of, and by, the almost fully alien role in which he inhabits. I have never been a fan of his before, although...I acknowledge him as a great actor, but here, for the first time, he has been given a role in which you can care about him. Like Crudup, Mathew Goode...delivers a distant performance, one that towers in its emotionless economy...and reserve, while forcing audiences to feel something, deep down, something rich...that speaks to your spirit. You feel the import of these performances...yes, and you know that you are witnessing great actors at work...and a director who is paying his dues--this is not lazy filmmaking...but a labor of love. <BR><BR> For me, Alan Moore's Watchmen was always missing something...heart, if you will, and I had hoped that a live action film could enliven his effort with a much needed...living and breathing 3 dimensionality, that only a live action film can deliver, an entertainment born out of pictures moving at 24 frames per second, amid accompanying sound effects, music, and the auditory atmosphere of clogged cities--and it has...done just that--come to life, and big time! <BR><BR> Bravo to all, this film smells of sex, intellect, and a message, that if we don't get our collective acts together, as a species, we won't have a world to fight over anymore, because it will be a dead world, like Mars, hence the parallels--but this world, our world, will be one that will have been destroyed by our own foolishness, by our own hands. So who's watching The Watchmen??? God, in the form of Dr. Manhattan...giving us all a Rorschach Test through the pessimistic prism of a story all to familiar to our survival, but one most rather avoid facing. Nothing in cinema has been this quite in your face, anti nuke, in a long time...and that in itself is a triumph, reminding us of the shaky ground upon which we walk...daily. Watchmen isn't about comic book characters...or super heroes...they are just iconic bread crumbs...used to lead us through this tale, one that suggests the logical conclusion to humanity's lack of optimism by way of our lust for violence and power...over love, sex (fucking) over making love, and conquest at any cost, even the cost of oblivion, over peace...and prosperity for all...through the sharing of resources and wealth--world wide; this, the only sane choice for humanity to make, given the circumstances, if we are to survive beyond the nuclear bomb, or greater weapons that are sure to follow the bomb's appalling genesis. The story, and film, which s the Watchmen, is demanding that the politically impotent, take back their personal freedom from "the human powers that be"...get a hard-on...man, or woman...and use your erection to make a positive difference in this world, if only to put away your bullets and weapons...in order to make love, not war...and here's to that!!! <BR><BR> To: V'Shael <BR><BR> Thanks for your input, I failed to vet my writing having just got in from the movie...and writing it cold, but thanks to your fair criticism, I did some corrections. Note: I still right about the tachyons. Smile!

  • March 9, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Wooo boy! Love me sum politikin!!!

    by Darth Macchio

    Politikin till your brain start tickin!!!<p>Freedom isn't free!<p>Kill em all, let God sort em out!<p>Just Do It.<p>Can't we all get along?<p>Where's the beef?<p>I'm lovin' it!<p>Where a kid can be a kid!<p>An Army of One.<p>Just like Mom used to make!<p>Whatever is it I think I see, becomes a Tootsie-roll to me.<p>Mister Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie-roll pop?<p>LET'S FIND OUT! [slurp] ONE! [slurp} TWO!! [slurp KA-RUNCH!!!] THREE! Three licks to get to the center of a tootsie-roll pop!

  • March 9, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Media and Manhattan

    by empyreal0

    Aside from the superfluous commas in your review (which are amusing but irrelevant to your message), you seem to have a bit of trouble with the whole Manhattan-sees-all-time issue. He explicitly stated that he can only see his future, and only up to a certain point. That certain point was an enormous tachyon burst (from the bombs going off), which essentially walled off all future events including and beyond that burst from his vision. There is nothing inconsistent about saying that, given Manhattan's holistic understanding of time. What seems awkward about it is that the bombs going off HAD to happen. You have to step back from thinking in terms of past, present, and future (a bit like Manhattan himself) and realize that time is being described here in relativistic terms. The future simply IS. The philosophical upshot of this is no free will. You'd like to think that either the bomb hadn't happened yet so it wouldn't be obscured (which is logically inconsistent if it's supposed to be there for him to see), or the tachyon burst traveled back through time suggest that this future blindness wouldn't affect him until it "met up" with him in time at some midpoint. The problem with that thinking goes back to Manhattan seeing only his future. If it met up with him at a certain point, then he couldn't see anything PAST THAT POINT. Time's a tricky thing. Read up a few books on philosophy of time and it'll fuck with your head a little, but at least you'll understand better.

  • March 9, 2009, 5:23 p.m. CST

    anyone not give a shit about supehero movies?

    by Prossor

    i mean some are enjoyable and tv filler yeah, but i wouldn't actually spend money to own any of them.

  • March 9, 2009, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Nixon's rubbery dick nose

    by Prossor

    someone needs to get on top of that user handle.

  • March 9, 2009, 10:55 p.m. CST

    Alexandra

    by Anino

    Excellent review--exquisitely worded, and frank. Take note everyone: THIS is how to write a review. You're able to impress without being full of yourself.<p> Now go tell that prick Anthony Lane to clear his desk at The New Yorker and take his job already. <p> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult you by comparing you to that pretentious tool.

  • March 10, 2009, 4:43 a.m. CST

    by Seth Gecko

    Jackie Earl Haley owned this movie. Oscar calibre performance. Otherwise it was pretetious nonsense and sadly it is an unfilmable book. Far too erratic as a story to ever make a coherent movie. Great book but not the classic that everyone pretends it is.

  • March 10, 2009, 4:48 a.m. CST

    Overrated nonsense

    by Seth Gecko

    Watchmen was a complete failure on most levels due to it's unfilmable story. The plot is non existent. Sadly Snyder has become a person who is going to join the PWS Anderson league soon unless he makes a film off of his own back rather than remaking comics shot for shot or reimagining the greatest horror film of all time. 300 was a brilliant film and Snyder is certainly a very talented director.

  • May 7, 2010, 1:07 a.m. CST

    http://www.superwatches.net/

    by nenaviovicente

    Manhattan should have been able to see the villain's plan, well before it was launched.

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