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AICN Dedicated Talkback: The WATCHMEN Are Here...
SPOILER ALERT !!
Merrick here...
Well folks, the time has come. After over two decades of waiting, WATCHMEN hits theaters...tonight.
Some have already seen the film via adcvanced screenings held over the past few weeks. Some will be seeing it at midnight, or over the next few days. Some will be seeing it in IMAX...some in digital...some in standard theaters. Some won't be seeing it at all.
Is the movie a masterwork of translation? Or was Alan Moore right, and did the graphic novel prove itself unfilmable? Or, is reality somewhere in between?
As the headline suggests, BELOW you'll find a Talkback discussing AICN reader reactions to the film. We'll try to keep this post visible on AICN's main page throughout the weekend, so check back to see what folks are saying...and be sure throw in your own thoughts as well!
Not that a spoiler warning makes much sense in a case like this, but...for the virginal or prissy...BEWARE SPOILERS!!!
Let the enthusiasm, indifference, and carnage begin!
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+ Expand All
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Just kidding. Haven't watched it yet.
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and it's underwhelming. overblown, overlong, undersatisfying.
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I completely agree.
Though not a faultless masterpiece (how could it ever be?), Snyder & company have done an awe inspiring job. A film that will be viewed and debated for years to come - As all the best are! -
Actually, RT is trying to play coy, as the main page is saying "N/A" despite being loaded with reviews, but the "opening Soon" tells the tale: 65%
Well, I'm usually not a RT whore, but this is an interesting reaction. Those who love it LOVE IT and those who hate it HATE IT. I'll be seeing tonight at midnight. -
and I liked it! Sure the Story is very condensed but over all a very satisfying and foremost good paced movie. And Rorschach owns all. And i give a shit about the squid. Ending is good.
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in his review of watchmen thread on his site, he said everyone here is bought and paid for so who pissed him off so bad? and although ebert has already seen it twice, and cant get the movie out of his head, im waiting to see if they will release the directors cut to theaters dont know how only 30 minutes more adds all that much, but to me, what made the book special, was the detail spent on the minor characters...which seems to be lacking in this version
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undersatisfying," you're talking about the Blue Cock of Doom, aren't you? God knows everyone else is...
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whats the prob, cant hold it in for over 2 hours? its a fucking 12 issue series...the movie should be 6 hours long and you should walk out with your brains leaking out of your ears
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Loved every second of it. Comic just changed into a film. It was so non-hollywood. Brilliant. Go Zack.
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DOES DR MANHATTAN KILL Rorschach AT THE END? Has this changed along with the 'alien invasion'?
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Anyone can walk out of this film unsatisfied. It's a brilliant, vibrant and suspenseful work. I admit that I haven't read the comic and don't know the story, so I'm judging the movie as, you know, a movie. and I stand by Watchmen > Dark Knight. (I don't read batman comics either)
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they were handing out rainchecks. Had one copy of it in bluray, though. I still assert this will open big. (But seeing as how I had the day off, I was tempted to get the mc instead and spend all day watching that. But nah, I've got my ticket reserved for tonight.
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virginal = prissy
nice..
does this count as indifference? -
I'm curious why he's upset the ending is changed if he's NOT upset about the lack of squid.
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Yes he doe's, However he asks for it. R is so black or white. No compromise.
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Yes, (and no to the second part, what alien invasion?)
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And I know zero about the Watchmen.
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http://tinyurl.com/bhsrql
Make it so Fox/WB! -
I will now watch it sober.
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I know there's a Rorchach one up now, But I want a Dr. Manhattan Harry. I think we're ready for full blue, full nude Harry.
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how were the credits? nobody ever reviews the credits..
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Some lunatic genius animator put this together - it's the re-imagining of WATCHMEN as a THUNDERCATS / SCOOBY-DOO style Saturday morning cartoon. And it is fucking GENIUS!!!
http://tinyurl.co m/c8ouvp
I don't need to see WATCHMEN. Bubastis as Snarf is all I'll ever need. -
hurr:
http://tinyurl.com/ bzup62
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DGDB, THIS is how WATCHMEN should be!
BUBASTIS IS SNARF!!!
This is so fucking awesome, it deserves a Talkback of its very own. Harry, make it so!!! -
wont say how...but zack added a hollywood moment....changed the meaning of the scene and of rorshachs life and i am pissed that they never explain how the mask came to be is america so fucking retarded that they dont know who kitty genovese is?
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even if it does nail a lot of the old cliches. Would have been better if it were a look at the proposed "Ozymandias cartoon" referenced in passing in the GN. but I guess HappyHarry aint that smart.
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And I found the ending better than in the books.
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i would get that guy to make a full 30 minute toon, and stick it on the extended dvd and say that this is for all the critics who complained that zack stayed too close to the book
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Good choice of music on the credits. As for the whole film....99 Luftballons, yeah! Anybody knows the song playing at the beginning of the credits?
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But two other people did this already.
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I noticed that too. It's actually been steadily declining on Rottentomatoes. I was expecting to hate it, thought all the acting in the previews looked fucking horrible but was really surprised that I loved it. The thing that did it for me was that they nailed so many of the characters and I was emotionally invested. Didn't think Zach Snyder would be able to put any heart into this flick but in my opinion he pulled it off.
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but everyone seems to treat it as such.
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God I hope it's good...
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Mar 05, 2009 5:21:01 PM CST
Oh boy, this talk back's going places.....be mindful one and all
by gungan slayer
*ducks for cover* and Alan Moore was right.
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The times the are a changing....fucking amazing!
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and running time doesn't bother me one bit if the story holds up throughout. Some of my favorite movies hit the 3 hour mark. But I just found something lost in the translation from source to screen. I feel the same way about Watchmen as I do about most of the Harry Potter movies. It felt like they were rushing to hit all of the narrative marks of the sorce material, until the thing sort of labors to reach its endpoint. Watchmen (the movie) is still fun, still worth seeing, but there have been far superior comic book films. Spider-Man 2, X2, Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Iron Man for example.
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even when he's right, you just wanna punch him in the cock because he's such a douche. you will privately admit to yourself that he's brilliant, but you never, EVER let him hear you say that.
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The opening credits were a masterpiece. Dylan in the background, the subtle (and not so subtle, JFK), moments that make up their history, simple amazing
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Never mind! I am going tomorrow.. I just keep asking.. STOP ME!.. TELL ME! NO, dont..
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black dude is in
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It might have succeeded as a movie on it's own merits, but I don't know. Having read the novel first, I can only see it as an adaptation. And it failed, IMO.
I've thought about it a lot, and I think the main problem I had was that the world was supposed to be super-hero free. Dr Manhattan was the exception. Yet the scenes of violence and fighting are insanely comic-booky. This is fine if you're making Spiderman 3. It's terrible if you're making Watchmen.
There were many other problems for me. The changing of the squid was not one of them. The acting from some, was a problem. The ending wasn't bleak enough, that's another. The lack of importance attributed to the journal and the magazine which would run it.
I also didn't care for the Nixon scenes too much. They were not necessary.
My favourite section of the story is Manhattan and Laurie on Mars. Some of the more important sections of their conversation, IMO, were cut from the movie. And why? I've no idea. Maybe the studio felt that any scene with a word like "thermodynamics" had to be removed, because the audience isn't smart enough. I just don't know.
Ultimately, I'll not pay money to see it again. That means I won't buy it on DVD.
It was probably the best possible version of Watchmen that we'll ever see. That's just given the limitations of the Hollywood system. However, just because it's the best possible version, doesn't mean it's awesome, excellent or even good.
I still think that minor changes, such as making the fight scenes more grounded in reality, would have helped the movie immeasurably. -
This will be more fun than the movie.
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Which one is your favorite?
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seeing it tomorrow but just thought i would share
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The Blue dong isn't in it as much as some repressed individuals would have you believe. And if something like that *really* bothers you, there's probably something wrong with you in the first place.
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Rorschach cos he's craaaaaazzzzzy...."Jon can give you cancer and can turn into a carrrrr"
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in the talkback. Anyone who loves Watchmen should really watch this, it's fucking classic
http://tinyurl.com/bhsrql
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even though they are straight they may have a small gay streak, not enough to act on but just enough to get excited when they see a blue dong. Just examine yourself, and be comfortable. If you're straight, it's okay to see a blue dong. you are still straight. if you're gay, well, that's okay too.
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It'd look like this: http://tinyurl.com/c534y9 Fucking hilarious.
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DAMNIT!
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Will give y'all the low-down once I've finished listening.
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Heheh. Great minds folks.
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it isn't half as "smart" or "clever" as many of you are giving it credit for. Just more Family Guy level amaturity.
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I've decided I like the comics ending better. You know why? I give two shits about the squid. What blew me away was the fact that Veidt managed to FAKE an alien life form. The horror of the images and the idea of the fucking monster messing with people's minds is so friggin' awesome, disturbing and bat shit crazy that there's no way they can duplicate that using Dr. Manhattan as a substitute. I think it's pretty smart to use the character and turn it the way they did, but I still like the "fake alien" stuff much much more. I liked it, it was something I've never seen before, although it has some serious troubles in its tone. Oh and Kovacs fucking rules.
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I never read Watchhomies, know nothing about it. I can imagine a big glowing blue dong, but what is "The Squid" that everyone talks about?
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It's really not in it all that much. Some dude in another talkback actually went through the whole comic and counted how many times it appeared (ha ha!) and apparently it was four! I swear it's only in like, two scenes in the flick but everyone seems fixated on it and it has become one of the biggest talking points of the film.
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Everyone loves the squid.
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Doubtless an intellect as towering as yours would have given the cartoon many levels of sophistication, wit and nuance, leaving the viewer with much to ponder on the nihilst existential viewpoint of the universe that WATCHMEN presents us with.
Or you could shut the fuck up, get down off that high horse, and leave the juvenile humour for those of us still with a sense of humour to enjoy.
Miserable bastard... -
So CARTOON > MOVIE ADAP
BUBASTIS AS SNARF > EVERYTHING!!! -
Well said.
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And it does seem like it would work, there's stuff there in the early going that makes it seem like it's building to the movie's ending. (Comedian's rant in chapter 2, and chapter's 3 and 4 as a whole.) I first read the comic in early 2007, and re reading it two years later, I can appreciate the new intent.
not that I've SEEN the new ending yet, mind, (I live in a part of the country that does not get regular advanced screenings,) but from what I heard, there is a sort of elegance to the new ending. -
its a fuckin animated penis...why would an animated penis scare anyone? why is nudity a big deal in this country? here is my one prob with the film...the cut of most of the minor characters....they brought humanity to the book, made the fear of armagedon and the feelings of hopelessness real...that and giving face to both the new frontiersman and nova express and i think the opening credit scenes show that if zack puts his mind to it, he can be a brilliant film maker
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The accumulated baggage of reading this story for 20 + years makes it difficult to have an unbiased and objective opinion solely on the film. I left the cinema unsure how I felt about it, then I couldn't sleep Tuesday night and it kept sticking with me. There were things I didn't like (some of the music is obnoxiously inappropriate. Some performances glaringly inconsistent. Then again, some parts are sublime). It requires multiple viewings if for no other reason, to determine if I can view it as a film and not measure it against the comic. Two very different mediums. Does the 190 minute cut flow better? Does it create an even denser tapestry? I had a similar feeling with "Fight Club." It took awhile to realize that I really enjoyed it and then I realized it's not the book. I really don't know if I enjoyed this movie, but I can't stop thinking about it, flaws and all. Snyder may have indeed 'caught the bullet'.
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Someone mentioned that the graphic novel is not perfect and thank god that they did. I bow to Watchmen and Moore's work, but it is certainly with it's flaws. Hope the movie is great. I'm going to a classy joint where you can sit on a couch and watch the movie in true digital!
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Haven't seen the movie yet, but I just finished the motion comic.Never read the original Graphic Novel Tell me was Alan Moore's "big finish" ALWAYS just a rip off of an old "Outer Limits" episode? Cuz If I were to stal so blatantly, I'd take my name off of it, too. It takes a special kind of balls to mention the source you are stealing your major plot device from while you are in the middle of doing it
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT6KpsJs1Io
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That cartoon was the shit of a golden god!--FANBOYFUCKINTASTIC!
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Do you guys and gals like the watchmen because the graphic novel really touched you on some kind of deep level or do you like it because the geek world told you to like it and deem it a masterpiece. Seriously, it's not that great and is certainly not the greatest comic tale ever told. That would be "Kingdom Come"
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Jon and Laurie made sweet passionate love to the tender haunting melodies of "Hallelujah". I felt elevated, nay, transported, to a moment that Kubrick himself did not have the vision to conjure. Zack Snyder, you aren't just a visionary. You are THE visionary.
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I only read the book once about a year ago, and as much as I loved it, I wouldn't say I'm really familiar with the material, yet I loved the flick. Sure I have my misgivings...I think they fucked up Veidt's character for one thing, but I almost think it's one of those films where the closer you are to the original source material, the less you're gonna enjoy the film. Who knows what he'll do with the director's cut though.
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It would be funnier if it were closer to the real thing: As in, "What would an animated tie in to Watchmen produced in the 80's look like if it were really real?" The produced cartoon is close, but no cigar. It would have looked like something between Superfriends and the real Ghostbusters. and the video is a little to self-cute, referencing the more adult themes of the comic, like the cancer subplot. lose it. It wouldn't have been in the real thing. And it's not sure what it's really making fun of. If this is supposed to be like a mid 80's action toon, why a Scooby Doo scene check? wrong genre. I'll admit, it's a clever idea, and the guy can animate, but he didn't have enough self discipline to really make this parody hit home, and got a little to reference happy.
I'll admit, showing Rorschach with those Rottweilers, petting them, was a clever and subversive twist. But declaring that John gives people cancer, having Rorschach declare himself the "wacky" one? no dice, man. -
It was called " the Architects of Fear" Starring Robert Culp as a volunteer who agreed to be turned into a "space alien" by aa cadre of scientists to give mankind a common enemy so that they would stop fighting amongst themselves Hope I didn't spoil the plot for you
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On wondering why the fuck an animated blue dong would scare so many "heterosexual" males. As for the minor characters, I missed them too. But the way the film is now, adding them in, would have made the thing waaaaaay long. And I'm hoping that's what makes it into the director's cut. Interactions between Bernard and the teenager with the comic, more of the psychiatrist, and for god's sake, some sort of countdown clock or bloody doomsday clock spread out through the film to give us a sense of foreboding and dread.
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the squid is veidt's plot to unite the world against an unseen and alien entity it is created on an island, where veidt has placed the worlds leading scientists, as well as artists and writer max shea and it is given the brain of a pychic (think lost) veidt then transports this creature to new york, where it immeidiatly dies, killing 3 million and driving millions more mad with visions of an alien world and creatures (implanted into the psychics brain) the plot is outrageous, insane and very comic bookish...and veidt turns to jon and asks..."did i do right"? (might be getting the quote wrong) it is the only time in the book that you see the humanity and fan boy come out of veidt...and its a brilliant part of the book...and its gone from this version
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Moore didn't find out about the Outer Limits episode until he was way into production on "Watchmen". But he put in a reference to "The Outer Limits" at the end of novel, as a sort of pennance or tip of the hat. The movie does the same.
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Genetics and social conditioning.
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he was informed about it during the run of the comic he had gibbons add a panel with the show playing on the tv as an homage to the show it wasnt a blatant rip
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It's weird the way they have the countdown clock in there for a couple of scenes near the beginning but then it just gets forgotten about.
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right after Moriarty published a story on the development of the Paul Greengrass film version. and I admired it on it's own terms. I really do think it covers a lot of ground on the Superhero genre and is THE go-to story for someone looking to find "deeper levels" to the superhero genre. It's very complete. And how many times has Watchmen been ripped off by someone doing there own "deep" superhero story? Incredibles (which I love) takes the start and basic premise of the early part of watchmen and develops it in a different direction to a different ending. Heroes Season one (which I hate) ripped off Veidt's plan for the resolution to it's first big arc. Watchmen has a lot to say about it's genre.
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Well spent thank you. Bettter than Dark Knight I say.
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And didn't even mention violence. Huh.
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i havent read the comic and had only a basic understanding of the plot and characters, i knew who everyone was and the like but im not the sort of guy who knows it inside out. the film was good, not great. not awesome. not unbelievable. some parts of it were excellent but others fell flat, felt rushed, felt shallow in terms of both emotional depth and ultimate importance to the story. a lot of it, to me anyway, seemed inferred. we werent as an audience of lamens being made to feel a particular way, we were just being told to feel that way. when dealing with literature as a point of adaptation for film youre never going to satisfy everyone, you'll never be able to include every single little detail, thats a given we're all familiar with now. but when an audience member such as myself (not overly familar with the work) feels like he got only the barest of the bare bones of the story told to him something is amiss. everyone will see it, countless people will enjoy, just as many wont. its quite good at times but very hollow at others.
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I'll see it by myself, stoned out of my mind, Sunday night.
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Mar 05, 2009 6:02:34 PM CST
YOU FAGGOTS TEABAG BITCHES WHILE I POTATO SACK THEM!!!
by 1978creepythinman
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The haters just wanted to hate it. I honestly don't think it could have been much better, but I greatly look forward to the extended version(s). I'm not one for extended versions, but I think really deserves/requires one.
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500 seat screen all to myself with the volume up at 6.5 !!!
Never read the novel and didnt have a clue what it was all about.
Thought it was Fantastic !!! -
Tomorrow night, same thing.
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thats all.
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It's actually a really creepy episode. Worth seeing.
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I'm drooling at the idea of a huge blue cock damn it I wish it was at the IMAX around here.
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Well before I even read any of the talkback I have to give my two cents. I've never posted here but this is probably the movie I will have the highest anticipation for EVER so if anything was going to force me to register and vent, it was going to be this movie. Oh sure, there will be other films to get excited about in the future, especially as an avid comic fan - the Avengers movies are going to drive me nuts, JLA, etc etc, but this was on another level. This was WATCHMEN, the book you make all your non-comic friends read.
So I saw it. I’m not one to go to movies alone, but I went to this alone. Partly because I couldn’t wait for anyone else, and partly because I was so afraid, so NERVOUS because I had anticipated this for so long. And I think that anticipation was ultimately what ruined it for me. Not just because of the source material, which I’ve read and re-read, but following so much of the news and clips and trailers and casting and development, ITS TOO MUCH! I don’t know about the rest of you, but the less I know about a movie when going in, the more I enjoy it. My favorite films are the ones I go in seeing without knowing ONE THING about them – OLD BOY, FIGHT CLUB, LET THE RIGHT ONE IT, SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE, these are films with no expectations, and subsequently the experience of watching them makes it easy to blow said expectations.
So let it be said right now that my expectations were far from blowable in this case. That said, I was trying to like it so bad. I was gagging for it, I was presenting, waving my ass in the air saying TAKE ME WATCHMEN, FILL ME WITH YOUR SEED, GIVE ME A FAN-BOYGASM, MAKE ME GO CROSS-EYED IN ECSTASY!!!! And at points during the film, I was indeed close to climax. When the opening credits were rolling, I was filled with glee, seeing the back stories of the minute men presented in such a great way. The Comedian’s funeral, superb. The Dr Manhattan montage set to Phillip Glass music, close to perfect.
But for every moment that was close to perfection, there were two or three which made me cringe. The slow motion moments and speed ramping OFTEN bordered on ridiculous. Have you ever seen the South Park episode that parodies 300? Watch it and you won’t be able to view certain points in the film with a straight face.
One BIG and probably surprising problem that I had, which I don’t often hear from comic fans, is that it was TOO faithful to the source material. I don’t have the book perfectly memorized, but I felt like I was flipping through that pages of the book at a pace not my own, with every scene jammed in no matter how awkward it seemed on screen, it was nearly exactly as it was in the comic.
Funnily enough, aspects which people seem to have a lot of issues with, I was fine with – Malin Akerman, for me, added naturalism and warmth to an otherwise often stilted cast. The CGI on Dr Manhattan was generally very impressive, and I think it worked especially well due to the character’s distant nature. Yes his dong was distracting, but I’m sure if Snyder had covered for the entirety of the film, fan-boys would be complaining about the lack of faithfulness. As it is, pretty much the only thing to moan about for us is the ending – which, in my opinion, was the safe option. MAYBE the squid could have been pulled off, but when I walked out, quite a lot of the audience was totally confused. Imagine if they had thrown a big Vagina-Squid in there (yes it’s a vagina with an anus for a mouth, check it out…) Personally I missed the squid, but plot wise, it was a concession that made sense.
One final comment – every scene with Rorschach is the bizness, especially when he takes off his mask. Man oh man, I was a bit worried about the casting but for that role, spot on. So good. So so good.
After watching the movie, I wouldn’t call Watchmen un-filmable. For the general cinema going populace though, I fear it may be un-watchable. It is A LOT to swallow in one sitting, just like the book. I for one will definitely be seeing it again, in the hope that, just like my second reading of Watchmen, it will reveal more to me and prove far better than I originally thought.
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I assume you also work at a theatre, skin26? I had a 300 seater to myself, this was like a dream come true haha. skipped class and went to see watchmen at 7 am! fucking loved it, seeing it again in imax tonight
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Take that hippies!!! Also the opening fight scene was awesome. All the characters were brilliantly portrayed by their respective actors with the exception of the two silk spectres, who were just mediocre. Though the story was condensed, and the much talked about change in the ending, I though this was overall a pretty good film. Hopefully the extended DVD release can make up for any shortcomings in the story.
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Well before I even read any of the talkback I have to give my two cents.
I've never posted here but this is probably the movie I will have the highest anticipation for EVER so if anything was going to force me to register and vent, it was going to be this movie. Oh sure, there will be other films to get excited about in the future, especially as an avid comic fan - the Avengers movies are going to drive me nuts, JLA, etc etc, but this was on another level. This was WATCHMEN, the book you make all your non-comic friends read.
So I saw it. I’m not one to go to movies alone, but I went to this alone. Partly because I couldn’t wait for anyone else, and partly because I was so afraid, so NERVOUS because I had anticipated this for so long. And I think that anticipation was ultimately what ruined it for me. Not just because of the source material, which I’ve read and re-read, but following so much of the news and clips and trailers and casting and development, ITS TOO MUCH! I don’t know about the rest of you, but the less I know about a movie when going in, the more I enjoy it. My favorite films are the ones I go in seeing without knowing ONE THING about them – OLD BOY, FIGHT CLUB, LET THE RIGHT ONE IT, SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE, these are films with no expectations, and subsequently the experience of watching them makes it easy to blow said expectations.
So let it be said right now that my expectations were far from blowable in this case. That said, I was trying to like it so bad. I was gagging for it, I was presenting, waving my ass in the air saying TAKE ME WATCHMEN, FILL ME WITH YOUR SEED, GIVE ME A FAN-BOYGASM, MAKE ME GO CROSS-EYED IN ECSTASY!!!! And at points during the film, I was indeed close to climax. When the opening credits were rolling, I was filled with glee, seeing the back stories of the minute men presented in such a great way. The Comedian’s funeral, superb. The Dr Manhattan montage set to Phillip Glass music, close to perfect.
But for every moment that was close to perfection, there were two or three which made me cringe. The slow motion moments and speed ramping OFTEN bordered on ridiculous. Have you ever seen the South Park episode that parodies 300? Watch it and you won’t be able to view certain points in the film with a straight face.
One BIG and probably surprising problem that I had, which I don’t often hear from comic fans, is that it was TOO faithful to the source material. I don’t have the book perfectly memorized, but I felt like I was flipping through that pages of the book at a pace not my own, with every scene jammed in no matter how awkward it seemed on screen, it was nearly exactly as it was in the comic.
Funnily enough, aspects which people seem to have a lot of issues with, I was fine with – Malin Akerman, for me, added naturalism and warmth to an otherwise often stilted cast. The CGI on Dr Manhattan was generally very impressive, and I think it worked especially well due to the character’s distant nature. Yes his dong was distracting, but I’m sure if Snyder had covered for the entirety of the film, fan-boys would be complaining about the lack of faithfulness. As it is, pretty much the only thing to moan about for us is the ending – which, in my opinion, was the safe option. MAYBE the squid could have been pulled off, but when I walked out, quite a lot of the audience was totally confused. Imagine if they had thrown a big Vagina-Squid in there (yes it’s a vagina with an anus for a mouth, check it out…) Personally I missed the squid, but plot wise, it was a concession that made sense.
One final comment – every scene with Rorschach is the bizness, especially when he takes off his mask. Man oh man, I was a bit worried about the casting but for that role, spot on. So good. So so good.
After watching the movie, I wouldn’t call Watchmen un-filmable. For the general cinema going populace though, I fear it may be un-watchable. It is A LOT to swallow in one sitting, just like the book. I for one will definitely be seeing it again, in the hope that, just like my second reading of Watchmen, it will reveal more to me and prove far better than I originally thought.
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is it during these screenings when guys sneak in their cams to upload to the net? cuz if thats the case, the film should end up online sometime tomorrow
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When I saw it on Tuesday, a fair number of people cheered at the end, but there was a large (possibly concentrated) group that booed like a bunch of assholes. I really appreciated everything that went into making this. There's so much crap playing in theaters these days, so I am thrilled something so challenging and profound will be out there. I only recently read the graphic novel, and there were definitely some flaws, just like in the movie. But overall, this is a beautiful piece of darkness, psychology, politics, pop culture, and nostalgia all rolled into one. It's also Zack Snyder's best film, easily. After 300 I was worried that he couldn't direct actors. And while Matthew Goode is definitely a weak link here, overall I loved the experience. Not a GREAT film, but a wonderful mix of all the things that I love. I can't wait to see it again.
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Is 40 minutes of blue dong. Well, that's what I heard.
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but from what i hear,from some people i speak on the net,which happen to be comic artists,the movie is shallow and soulless.
yes it has the pretty images from the GN,it manages to duplicate in the celiloid,many of the comics frames,but it misses miserably to transfer the spirit and atmosphere of the comic,and most importantly there is nowhere the personal touch,vision,thinking,artistic view from zack snyder as a film-maker,as a director making a movie.
the ..visionary..,as some of u call him,director zack snyder tried so hard to make an exact copy of the GN (despite its changes for commercial reasons obviously) that at the end he made a film which tries to transfer from the GN,the similarities between the 2 mediums,(films and comics),the images,what u see,and the story,what u understand,BUT forgets to use the differences between the 2 mediums,in order to heighten movie in its medium and make it stand by its own as a film masterpiece.
to tell it simple,u get a photograph of a flower.u paint the flower on a canvas.using all your technical skills,u paint the flower exactly as it is in the photograph.but u dont use your artful skills as a painter to transfer what u personally see on the flower,what u think of its image,if its beatiful,ugly,if you like its smell,or what it might symbolise if we want to go deeper.
in other word,the movie is a TAXIDERMY of the original masterpiece.nothing more or less.
which personally i dont find hard to believe it.from the start i was telling here in the talkbacks,that mr Moore was right when shouting that Watchmen is unfilmable.
well anyway.the only thing that remains is to become a boxoffice distaster.well at least like Godzilla was.I hope it with all my heart.cheers. -
Even though I have viewed others responses, I have finally created my own profile to join in on the fun!
I am going to see Watchmen tonight at 12 am. I agree that a 4 star Ebert review doesn't mean that much anymore, my local movie critic (Rafeal Guzman), who is a hard ass, gave the film three stars, which means it will probably be good.
Cant wait to come back here and discuss it with my fellow movie geeks. See you all around 3 am -
didnt understand that is where the novel ends i hate gen movie audiences
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Snyder got it right.
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SO i got the motion comics, it's enjoyable because i hadn't read it since. it's surprising( to me! ) how much i remember and how much it influenced me as a kid. can't see it this week as imax screening have sold out in london town ( unless you wnat the 2am showing) so i'll have to wait till next week. but i'd glad i managed to get the motion comic to rememeber everything and compare it squid or no squid to the movie
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or graphic novel, as they don't exist.. don't be ashamed to call it a comic. Yeah the movies kinda average. The animated comic is ten times better and the guy who does the voices even does a better job than Malin Akerman does in the movie
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Yeah i manage a cinema.
Has its perks !!!
Bacci40,
Not in my cinema,just myself and my fellow managers who view,all huge movie fans,no phones,no talking,no eating !!!
Absolute joy!!!
Although its ruined it for when i go to see something with my partner,least little noise drives me insane -
It's 40 minutes of ERECT blue dong. Hence the, erm, "extended" part.
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Don't agree. Look up the Moore proposal for "Twilight" and you'll see many of the same themes used in "Kingdom Come," but Moore anticipated that almost a decade earlier. "Watchmen" is more ambitious and I think balances complex ideas, pop cultural references, and pulp fictional history while also building it's characters from scratch without relying on DC Comics' canon. I enjoy "Kingdom Come" but, most of it comes from my knowledge of the DCU back-stories and how Waid and Ross subvert expectations. Moore & Gibbons created an entirely new paradigm to explore their characters themes. It's world building; it doesn't rely on the readers shorthand knowledge of DCU continuity or the baggage of over 50 years of history. Neither task is easy, but I think "Watchmen" so successfully accomplished what it set out to do, that it's still talked about and dissected in comic, pop cultural and literary circles.
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I wait until the movie starts, I go to the front of the theater and then I slowly walk up the aisle while simultaneously cranking out massive gaseous ass-explosions into the the faces of everyone sitting in the first seat or every row--and since they are sitting down and the aisle is sloped, my ass and their face are "eye-to-eye" so to speak. It's awesome.
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Major props to the animator(s) and voice talent that pulled that off. Yeah, like someone else here said, let's see Warner Bros. do a half-hour afternoon show using that as the template. And DC should make a Super Friends type Watchmen comic too.
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You are so right....
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40 mins of erect, circumcised blue penis. Hence the extended director's "cut".
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Could've been better, but fuck it, I loved it!
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I'm usually no advocate for the death penalty but you good sir must be destroyed. Flatulence is nothing to be taken lightly.
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when I was 15 and very aware of it. By that age, I din't read anything published by DC because their shit was for little kids. Now I realize that I was wrong about that. A buddy bought me a copy of the trade paperback, which I plan on reading in 1 sitting. I will actualy see this in the theater rather than downloading it for free in a few months. I'll be back with my thoughts on both versions. I will be smoking tons of chronic before I take both in. Hard to get LSD these days.
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Do you like to sit on the aisle? And enjoy your...popcorn? Mwah-ha-ha-ha!
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I saw it at IMAX last night, so i don't know if that extra screen size would make any difference but at the end in Antarctica you can quite clearly see billy crudup in his mo-cap suit in the reflection of the owls goggles. It was in about 3 shots. Well anyway I liked it but i want to see the longer cut before i decide how i feel, this version seemed very choppy and obviously missing a few bits of connective tissue.
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but how could anyone consider themselves a literate person and not have seen the Outer Limits (or the Twilight Zone)
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Many scenes are really awesome; especially the athmosphere of the comic book is captured just brilliantely. As long as it is, there are some flaws (acting in some scenes and the pacing at the end) that hinder a "perfect"-rating, but it's still a masterpiece.I had a problem with the ending, as the scenes with Silk Spectre I and her daughter were not interesting enough to conclude the story with this story arc. That is much more emotionally fulfilling in the comic book. Somehow the scenes with those silk spectres didn't work as they should. I don't know whom to blame, those scenes were just not interesting enough and that's a bit sad as it's the emotional backbone of the comic book.
Everything with Doc Manhattan and Rorschach was amazing, Nite Owl was great and the decision to change Ozymanias as he is presented here really gives depth to a somewhat boring character. Great movie and i am thankful that it has been made so faithful to the source. -
this would have made a pretty good Batman story
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...to even mention Kingdom Come in the same conversation with Watchmen. Kingdom come is no more than Alex Ross stroking his own bloated ego and touting his knowledge of the DCU. Watchmen is art, a reflection on the very genre of comic book super heroes. Thanks guys, you just made me a dirty, dirty blasphemer too. No wonder people are hating the flick so much if the fan community hold Kingdom Come in such high regard.
Anyway, my only gripe with the film is that it did feel a bit choppy in parts, and really makes me look forward to the DVD release. The scenes at the newsstand and the incorporated Tales from the Black Freighter will make a big difference. I'm really glad these current comic industry professionals are panning the film, none of them are producing work of any quality. A good barometer for me, that the creator of Marvel's Ultimate Universe says that it's a flat piece of work. Instant win for the Watchmen film! -
Harry's just given it a talkback of its own! It's fucking Watchmen fever at AICN right now!
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I Couldn't Agree more with you.
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That's just enough time to forget what happens. I'll wrap it up this evening and decide whether to see this film.
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You make it sound like you're 90 years old or something
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so you've read it 2, maybe 3 times at most?
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for being dressed as Rorschach. I go to Ohio State and was walking around campus dressed as him for an art class project and some cop cars pulled over and questioned me.
Most people didn't seem to care/notice though. That's kind of disturbing. So is the fact that the cops didn't even ask me to take off my mask (although they did pat me down). -
I see there's no end to the polarization over this film. As someone who adored the original graphic novel and will be re-reading it, then watching the motion comic I am eager to see how the film stacks up...but I am not however, one to expect an exact adaptation. I want very much to enjoy Watchmen as a film that captures the original story as best possible. That said, while I'm juiced for this, my expectations are nowhere close to say Dark Knight or Iron Man. While Watchmen is a fascinating exploration of the superhero genre and the archtypes therein, it simply is not as iconic, in my mind. I feel because of this, I will not have my world torn away should it not meet my high--albeit not unrealistic--expectations.
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something about him smoking cock. my bad.
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..where's Neill Cumpston??
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Unlike dark knight which I did see in imax 2x this movie was not shot with imax cameras so will it be cropped off in the imax screen like it was when I saw spidey 3 in imax? Like it was the regular print just shown on the imx screen looking widescreen? If so why pay the 14 bucks a ticket and save some cash and see it in a regular theatre? Is there a difference? I mean dark knight took up that whole big ass screen with the shots filmed in imax rest was cropped off like widescreen
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This is unfilmable. This is like a play on the screen. Should not have been made. I hate saying this Fox was right.
What is this?
The action is lame. It's like the mouseketeers doing hand stands all the time in the jail break.
The Comedian sucked.
I heard Seth Rogen was downstairs. So my girlfriend took off to find him. If she found him. I would have no hesitation in leaving this film and trying to chat with him to.
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After the film he yelled out.
" Where's the squid" -
The movie made no sense at all. What was happening with Rorschach in that back room with Night Owl? And who in the hell were those kids shaped like mushrooms fighting in the background? I gotta say, I never read the comic or saw the movie but these things I just imagined made no sense. I do like the blue guys dong though. Especially the part when he came rainbows.
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Will they be a big seller next October?
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A jar of blue latex paint? you know, I might just go to this year's Halloween as Doc Manhattan. Start in the full black body suit and strip down throughout the evening...
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Naked little boys painted blue all running around at night? I bloody hope so.
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When will he get it? Somebody please tell him that there is more to movies than visuals. Two-time Douche of the Year Award winner. Sorry John Edwards, you lost this year...
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Don't know about the doc but if you can point me in the direction of a Rorschach costume or just the mask and ill pick that shit up in two seconds
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It looks great and roger ebert gave it four stars so i'm definitely watching.FUCK U MASS A BITCH
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Think about it...
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It's actually pretty impressive. The track 'Edward Blake: The Comedian' sounds exactly like it's from Blade Runner though. Which isn't a bad thing at all.
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some coo lstuff..kinda...it was bad
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...can be pretty suspect thought it was not as good as 300.
And I HATED 300. -
I hated 300 too. Thought Watchmen was brilliant. As this talkback is demonstrating though, this is a REALLY polarising film.
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...this film has people ripping each other apart on the interwebs like no psychic squid could ever do.
This whole site is an abattoir of retarded children. -
http://jonn.co.uk/movies/modules/news/article.php?storyid=472
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Hilarious story. No you need to dress up like Ozymandias and walk around the Short North and see what the cops do.
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in an AICN talkback; chest-bumping fat kids that are living in their mom's basement, while painting flames on Optimus Prime's nipples will freak out, find Kurt Russel, have a beer, and cheat on their 2nd Life wife
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He says he never read the graphic novel because it would've affected his ability to judge the film fairly. He seems to think it's a great film.
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Time is simultaneous, an intricately structured jewel that humans insist on viewing one edge at a time, when the whole design is visible in every facet.
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And went in not planning on hating it.
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Wrote this for my blog, sorry about the lack of spacing and paragraphs, you know how AICN is........................................................
OK, some of you have been waiting for this for a while, and now I'm down to the wire, but it was promised, and while I don't ALWAYS keep my promises, I at least try my very best to do so. But in this case, I could not disappoint. (DLB, your letter is next, I promise!)
SO.
There's a movie coming out tomorrow. Watchmen. Based on the groundbreaking, paradigm-shifting late-80s graphic novel by the legendary Alan Moore.
I need to state upfront: I've seen clips and trailers, but I've not seen the film yet. I'm seeing it at midnight tonight.
Watchmen, the graphic novel, was one of a handful of titles that changed everything in the comics world. Whether it was for better or worse is up for debate. But in and of itself, it's an incredibly substantial and intelligent work, justly deserving of all the praise that's been heaped upon it.
(I say this, even though I hadn't actually begun reading it till recently; I've just never been a superhero comics guy--even an ironic, deconstructive type. My comics reading was always more along the lines of Elfquest, The Crow, and the various Star Wars spin-offs. What can I say, I'm an exception to most of my generation.)
Anyway--we'll take it as read that as always with any filmed adaptation of a literary work, there will be purists who will scream bloody murder at the smallest, slightest deviation from what they know; and those who understand that films and books (or comics) are different media, and require different interpretations. At best, we can always hope that a movie is faithful to the spirit and general substance of a book, even if details are added, altered or deleted. Case in point, The Lord of the Rings (which I could write SEVERAL blogs about, mostly positive.) Case against: The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (oh, the blog I DID write about that, which I may yet post for posterity...)
Well, I'm not coming at this from a purist's perspective. I understand adaptation. As long as it's done respectfully, I can deal. So that will NOT be the subject of my rant.
No, honestly, I'm just sick of the hype. And while I try my very best to remain open-minded and youthfully-oriented (and it's not that hard for me to do so), once in a while, my stick-in-the-mud, inner curmudgeon comes out.
And it's been on full display for months and months, as the artificial Watchmen hype has slowly built.
Mind you, I know hype has its place. And while I may not have really given a shit about superhero comics growing up, I'm still enough of a gen-x slacker/geek that I've watched most of the comic book/superhero movies that have come out in my lifetime with various degrees of enjoyment. Some have been excellent (Dark Knight, Superman: The Movie, the first two X-Men); some have been entertaining (Spiderman); some have been lame-as-fuck (Daredevil, Hulk, Fantastic Four). But that's how it goes, y'know?
But the thing about Watchmen is, like The Crow, like V For Vendetta--it was always Something Special. A Cut Above. Not Your Ordinary Comic Book.
And its creator considers it Unfilmable. (Though Tolkien felt the same about The Lord of the Rings.)
Anyway--something about this entire thing has just struck me as off from the very beginning. And it took me a long time to explain WHY.
(And I have to note it's been a LONG time since I've been THIS curmudgeonly about something; I think the original MATRIX was the last time. To be fair, in hindsight, I see that movie for what it is, and I hold it in very high regard; but at the time, I was truly sick of all the sycophantic, puppy-dog, gushy, fanboy hype surrounding it, especially considering I felt that DARK CITY had covered much the same ground over a year prior, with a LOT more style and intelligence.)
Anyway, bottom line: I'm pretty convinced that while it will probably be superficially entertaining, and will LOOK spectacularly pretty, WATCHMEN the movie is going to SUCK BALLS.
These are my reasons why.
1. THE TIMELINESS FACTOR
Some things are timely; some are timeless. Very few are both. In the case of WATCHMEN, it was exactly what the comics industry needed at exactly the right time. But as far as a movie version goes...I'm sorry, its time has come and gone. If there was going to be a WATCHMEN movie, it should have been 10-15 years ago, in the era of Batman & Robin and Mystery Men (which two movies, by the way, represent the low and high ends of the scale to which I expect the WATCHMEN movie to actually measure up.)
It's not that the material is dated or irrelevant...well, not completely...it's simply that, well, the CONTEXT is no longer relevant. LORD OF THE RINGS could be filmed 50 years later because it was rooted in classic, archetypal folklore, myth, and fairy story. WATCHMEN is locked into a specific time, place, and genre, and we live in a VERY different world than we did 20 years ago. At best, the filmmakers will have found a way to successfully explain or change the context (as was done with the highly underrated V FOR VENDETTA); at worst, it will be a narrative mess of conflicting intentions.
2. THE ZACK SNYDER FACTOR
OK, the director is the guy who did 300. We all saw 300, right? Great movie. Seen on the big screen. In the dark. In a movie theatre. ONCE.
Have you **tried** watching it at home since then?
It's nothing short of lame and pathetic. It does not hold up. Period. To quote the Bard, it's so much sound & fury, signifying nothing. A very stylish MESS. NO substance.
And this is the guy who's adapting what some consider the greatest graphic novel of all time?
Forgive me if I lack faith.
3. THE PRETTY IN PINK FACTOR
You can’t release PRETTY IN PINK after HEATHERS has already been released.
OK, you're going to have to indulge me here as I show my generational pedigree by drawing some rather obscure parallels.
Back in the 80s, there was a whole genre (which has largely been subsumed since) of "Teen Movies". These ranged from the purely T&A exploitative (some of which would be virtually classified as inappropriate if not downright KP these days), to those that were sheerly entertaining (Better off Dead), to those that actually expressed or represented some kind of truth about the inner (and outer) lives of young people (Fast Times, the John Hughes movies). In other words, they were varying degrees of good to great, decent/watchable, and mediocre-to-bad--as in any genre.
Well.
In 1986, the classic PRETTY IN PINK was released. Written by John Hughes, pretty much the poet laureate of the teen movie genre. The classic Cinderella tale with a distinctively 80s spin. It looked great, it was entertaining, and it appealed to all of our fantasies, while at the same time, it did express some genuine truths. At the same time, like many of the Hughes movies, it expressed a certain arch sanctimoniousness.
But.
By the end of the 80s, teen movies had run their course, and had pretty much become saccharine-sweet or just sheerly crass. And then came HEATHERS.
Out of the blue, like lightning from a clear sky, came a low-budget, dark comedy that simultaneously defined and transcended every single convention of the teen movie genre. Indeed, it turned every cliché and stereotype on its head--and addressed head on the fawning sanctimoniousness of all that had come before. It would have been difficult, if not impossible, for any of the teen movies made prior to come after HEATHERS. PRETTY IN PINK could never be made again. The only teen-oriented films of significance to wash up in its wake were SAY ANYTHING and PUMP UP THE VOLUME--both of which anticipated what was to come in the 90s, culturally speaking, far more than they spoke to what had happened in the 80s.
In short, to paraphrase author Jonathan Bernstein (who wrote an excellent book on the subject of 80s teen flicks called, oddly enough, PRETTY IN PINK), HEATHERS killed its own genre dead.
Well.
Transposing the genres to fit my analogies, I have to assign the HEATHERS role to DARK KNIGHT. Some didn't care for it; but for me, it represented the pinnacle and apotheosis of the comic book superhero genre. It defined it, transcended it, and ENDED it. The door that Richard Donner's original SUPERMAN opened in 1978 was slammed shut in 2008 by Christopher Nolan's KNIGHT. (And indeed I find it almost insulting to describe TDK as a comic book and/or superhero movie, since it was and is obviously SO much more--and its being shut out of the Oscars is a genuine tragedy, in my view.)
In other words, what can follow THE DARK KNIGHT?
In my view, nothing can. That movie raised the bar so high that the only thing any movies that follow in its wake can do is…well, not be released.
This isn't to say that there should never again be another comic book and/or superhero movie. Even if that were realistic (which it's not), these characters are enduring, and they reinvent themselves each generation, and that's fine.
But...
A respectful pause for thought would have been in order, I think.
Instead, WATCHMEN--to which I have to assign the PRETTY IN PINK role- follows hard on the heels of the most successful and critically acclaimed movie of its genre, hoping to ride the wave--but for all the reasons I've listed above, and doubtless many others, I cannot in any way conceive that it will do anything but fail on almost every level.
In short, I think it's going to suck balls.
****************************************************
Look...12 hours from now, I may well be eating my words. If that's the case, if this film actually pulls it off and DOESN'T suck, I'll admit it. I won't retract this blog, but I'll update it, and say, "Hey, it wasn't so bad!" But I want to document my thoughts beforehand, so if I’m wrong, I can be honestly wrong; and if I’m right, well, I can say…TOLD YOU SO!
(By the way, I've been avoiding the reviews that have been coming out this week, but the tone of their headlines is not positive; however, I've deliberately NOT read them, so as not to taint my own experience, or my own feelings on why this movie will blow.)
And again, as I said, I DO expect it to be superficially entertaining. I DO expect it to LOOK great (and not just because of Silk Spectre). And I DO expect that, even with the necessary lobotomizing that happens in the course of adaptation, it will still at least HINT at the substance of the original, which few other comic books can grasp. And it goes without saying, it’ll have a huge opening weekend and be the #1 movie of the week. And from there, word of mouth will form its momentum. Like I said. It MIGHT not suck.
If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.
But I'm not sure I'll be wrong.
I'll be back with my post-viewing comments tomorrow.
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So many people still trying to defend this abortion. It's rating a RT continues to plummet, and the criticisms people had here have come to life as huge problems people are having with the movie. Hollow, a terrible third act, ridiculous action scenes, horrible old age make up, and a terrible version of Veidt. All this without mentioning the ending eh? As I have stated I won't pay to see this, i will DL this weekend and view as much as I can take, but I feel the ultimate destiny of this movie will be to have a modest opening weekend then fade to obscurity. Regardless of my personal feelings of this hacks adaption, I never guessed it would be so irrelevant so fast. Within a week no one will be talking about this.
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I really liked it. I would like to see it again. I never read the book. but knew the characters. Of course there were some haters at the sneak peek bitching about the squid not being in it.The only thing I didn't like was the aging make-up and Nixon reminded me as The Nixon from Futurama. I didn't know if he was supposed to look comical or not. I have to read the book now and check out the dvd adaption.
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No, no too many people died last year.
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Mar 05, 2009 8:14:51 PM CST
AFTER MONTHS OF THIS SITE NOT LETTING ME CREATE
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
A NEW ACCOUNT I FINALLY GET JUSTICE!!! YESSS!!! MY LIFE IS COMPLETE!! PLEASE STOP BANNING ME FOR WUESTIONING HARRY!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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everybody listen to rotten tomatoes before seeing the movie. critics control our lives. we must do as they say...or else
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it's impressive that snyder was able to get dr. manhattan's one eyed monster into the final product. and people say "where's the squid?" ffftt....
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Use em without the spaces
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- its too long
- no one will read that shit -
Mar 05, 2009 8:30:06 PM CST
i must know how dr mans. rod looked
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
because in the book he was not packing a fatty.
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whats the film version like. spoil me i can take it.
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Nothing ends. Nothing ever ends.
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he wants you all to suck his fat british cock
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I love the comic book. Love it. I hated 300 with all my heart. Boring film. Simple. Remake of Dawn was cool I have to say and I love the original. So, was mixed about Watchmen but I have to say if you loved the comic it's really hard not love the movie. It captured the spirit totally and was extremely violent. Like really violent. And all the talk of the ending being changed is such bullshit. Who gives a fuck about a stupid squid anyway? The message is the same and it doesn't effect anything unless you really like squids for some odd reason or just want to complain about something cause your not making bold films under the Hollywood system. Credit to all involved.
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while a few make very good points, most are just blather, and out of those, many go on to review the comic how come no critics reviewed the killing joke and the long halloween when reviewing tdk?
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...it saved me the temptation to read your bloated screed. Scanning it was enough to see that you're clueless.
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Mar 05, 2009 8:37:36 PM CST
because tdk isnt directly based off of those two...
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
even if parts are lifted from it. god i loved seeing a batman/joker interrogation scene on the big screen.
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Mar 05, 2009 8:38:33 PM CST
fuckin why does my name have a stupid space in it
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
do i blame it on harry which is the big fad nowadays?
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I can't believe you vomited out that manuscript -- which no one will read, by the way -- and you haven't even seen the film yet.
The sidewalk will run red with geek brain blood come midnight, mark my words. -
I think people will be talking about this movie for a while. Especially with "Kick-Ass" coming out later in the year. It's worth the trouble to see even if you hate it.
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I wonder how these two will compare.
And I'm not hatin' on "Kick-Ass" because of Nic Cage -- I'm hoping it won't be "Ghost Rider" part deux. -
and you are wrong about tdk tell you what...put bruce willis in the batman role sans suit and i dont know, any good character actor in the joker role sans makeup...AND YOU HAVE THE SAME FUCKING MOVIE... OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT NOLAN TOOK SOME PLOT POINTS FROM THE KILLING JOKE AND THE LONG HALOWEEN, IT DIDNT MATTER IF BATMAN AND THE JOKER WERE IN THE MOVIE it wasnt genre shaking or bending...it didnt say anything different than any other cop/action movie ever made oh wait...it turned batman into a christ figure who now must suffer for the people of gotham...ya, thats what it did...fuck that shit
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Mar 05, 2009 8:44:22 PM CST
at least tensticks has the balls to admit
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
that in a few hours from now he might be eating his own words. that he might actually love the movie. hes not randomly trolling or anything. though it wouldnt hurt to use a paragraph break...
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you are right...cuz the interrogation scene in the killing joke, is a billion times better in tdk, the relationship between the two makes no fucking sense...CUZ THEY HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP
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I don't care enough about this site to bother with the formatting thing, thanks. I wrote that for a blog and posted it here as an afterthought. And I apologized ahead of time for the lack of spacing. As for your responses, well, fuck you very much. *I* don't live on this site. And I don't particularly care what anyone else thinks. If you find no value in what I had to say, great, don't read it. Simple, everyone's happy.
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these screenings are generally employees only, and noone at my theatre ever records anything, but it would make sense and im sure tons of theatres have crooked managers who tape shit
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I appreciate that you noticed that part of my post. Just for you, I may look into the formatting thing for any future vomit-screeds.
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then you didnt understand a huge chunk of the purpose of the book...sorry, but that is a fact
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Mar 05, 2009 8:48:22 PM CST
i never thought of jesus once during tdk
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
except for when i was screaming "jesus this movie is giving me a huge boner" seriously though didnt people say superman was a jesus like figure in superman returns? i never really saw it like that...well maybe when he fell to earth in a jesus like pose, though maybe i was trying to hard to see the connection.
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Big OLD COCK! I havent seen the film yet, going to see it FRiday night on IMAX. But I have been reading enough reviews from critics and fanboys alike to know that the negative feedback is bullshit. Hell all of the negative reviews, even those on AICN or TIME or ROLLINGSTONE, say the film is directed brillant and that as a film it is genuis. But they cant reccomend it because it is unfaithul or trys to hard to be like the graphic novel. This is pure stupidity at its best! A movie is either good or bad not in between you dumbass cock smokers! Harry at AICN gave a good review and ROGER EBERT told us how you should go about reviewing a film. You review on the basis of that alone the film, not the adaptation or novel. Nothing could ever live up to the NOVEL, but as a film I believe it is going to great! All you Zack Snyder haters can hate, everyone also hated on KUBRICK and most of his films. There wasnt one Kubrick film that didnt go 50/50! You either loved it or hated it! To me it seems like that is how The Watchmen is going to be debated, no in between! Just a love it or hate it film! This film will not flop and it will make its money, it is too cool for school! So all you haters suck a COWS COCK, and go jerk off to your Tim Burton films!
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guess you left before dent dies and gordin makes his stupid ass speech to his brat kid, who shoulda died, which woulda made that movie interesting
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Wait! What do you mean by...
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What's this-?! a 20 odd year old franchise being retrofitted for today's movie going audience-?! One w/ some guy in Richard Nixon Clown make-up and the Not So Positively Gay Bloo Manster Grope starring as the God of Mars-? Do we really need this? PGAGH! sez I! We need GIANT ROBOTS. We Need Fat Black Computer Nerds eating Donuts! We need Mr Anderson screaming out -MINE-ALL SPARKAH! towards the end. And big explosions. LOTS of those. With Giant Robots, of course. Hitting each other.
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post a link, so i can go there and shit on you all over again...cuz i dont give a shit if tdk made a billion dollars, it was as much a batman film as diehard was
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There's a great moment on there where he says how he doesn't bother with AICN much, cuz there's no way to win--everyone here hates everything.
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Poor sad dipshits.
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Your post displays an arrogance I can barely comprehend.You attack people for "defending" the film, yet has it ever occurred to you that they might have actually enjoyed it? People are entitled to their opinions, you know, even if they (god forbid!) don't agree with yours...Secondly, on the subject of your "opinion", you regurgitate critical comments from various reviews as if they were categorical facts, yet admit that you haven't seen the movie yet. So what does that mean? Do you buy your opinion wholesale off the internet? Are you incapable of forming one of your own? If you had seen the film and were giving your honest appraisal that would be absolutely fine, but to criticise something BEFORE YOU HAVE SEEN IT is to me the most stupid, pointless, narrow-minded and hollow thing a so-called "fan" can do. Sadly, you are hardly unique in this aspect.Finally, and again you're not the first to say this, your comment about refusing to pay to watch this and DL'ing it instead really pisses me off. If people can't afford to watch a movie or buy a DVD and download it, not a problem. If people want to download a movie to make sure they like it before paying hard-earned money for something they might not enjoy, fine again. You, however, seem to think you're taking some sort of moral high ground by refusing to pay for this film, but you're more than happy to get it for free, right? Well, to me that's low.Please don't bother replying to me. I refuse to waste my time arguing with someone prejudiced enough to form their opinions before ever experiencing that which they are supposed to be forming an opinion of. I will be watching this film tomorrow and my opinion of it will be honest and genuine. If I like it, I like it. If I don't like it, that sure as hell doesn't prove you right.
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Mar 05, 2009 9:05:31 PM CST
ok first off bacci i saw the movie many times
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
i was saying i didnt really think of batman like jesus. god your annoying.
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I'm a huge Alan Moore fan. I read the serialized Watchmen comics when they were first published and fucking loved them. I've read the graphic novel countless times over the years, i finally get to see the film and i fucking loved it. Sure they've made changes, they had to in order to make it work on the screen - but because Snyder's working with such awesome source material, the end result is a dense, richly layered, ADULT super hero film -it was truly amazing. The first film adaptation of Moore's work to actually earn the right to say it's based on his comics....even though his name wasn't in the credits...shame really - anyway, upshot is: the film fucking rules!!
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Mar 05, 2009 9:11:54 PM CST
damn it that space in my name is buggin me
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
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First time in 20 years. Some thoughts: 1) I'm glad the squid is out. Psychic wave kills half of New York? It's possible that could work visually, but more than likely, people would laugh that off the screen. 2) The "Black Freighter" stuff is fine for the seamless branching of DVD/Blu, but would confuse the living hell out of general audiences (non-fans) if incorporated into the theatrical cut, so that's another good move. 3) Ozy's costume in the GN is better than what we see in the movie. The film's Ozy looks too "Schumacher" for me. BOTTOM LINE: I'm cautiously optimistic - seeing it in less than 2 hrs!
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yea no problem. i can understand where your coming from. i never thought sin city could work. and it did!
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was it realistic or was it too CG.
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Mar 05, 2009 9:16:45 PM CST
im soory but i think brad pitt couldve been a good ozy
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
im looking through the gn again. chapter 5 page 16, the middle image of veidt helps me think im right to, because it looks like brad pitt on the benjamin button poster
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I'm with you there. I though SC was fantastic. And like I said, so was V4V. As for Watchmen, well, I'm now at t-minus 3:45, so...we shall see. (And if that Elfquest movie ever gets made, well, we'll see how THAT one is handled...) Anyway, thanks for being an oasis of politeness and sanity in this sea of sad, pathetic shutins.
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Of course Ozy's film costume looks too "Schumacher"... That's the point! It's unbelievable how many people are missing the point of this film...
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Just to be sure. You could have the Squid in that too, take up, oh, half the screen(at least) AND show the wires too! you know, holding it up, etc. A sock puppet Comedian. Make it so.
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....Snyder, you crazy son of a bitch!!!!! You actually fucking nailed it. It's my opinion of course but that's the movie I always had in my head for the last 20 years. Can't wait for the extended blu-ray. Hats off to you sir!!
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Is that you, Tom Bodet?!
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Watchmen comic series = deconstruction of super hero comic series of the time. Watchmen movie = deconstruction of super hero movies of the time. It's as simple as that. No wonder so many are missing the point, most are just screaming "It sucks! But Rorschach's a BADASS!" Not a bad thing though, now it's easy to know who not to trust...
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---right Mr Geyser!---and a few interestingly shaped Squids. Big Squid at end? Big explosions everywheres? who cares? just put in the robots and we're allllllll gonna be happy----
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How are ya, you crazy bastard?! Good to have you back on the boards; you're timing couldn't be better.The wind is changing. You can feel it.
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C'mon THINK. You wanted a squid? You'd Get yer squid. You wanted to see Massive Destruction? You'd GET yer destruction. And Comedian? he'd be Buscemi on Roids. C'mon it'd have been a riot---plus an army of Giant Robot Lions too, let loose upon the land. Fuck that squid shit. Giant Robot Lions RULE. Cloverfield II: Your Dalmation is Tron.
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Thank God somebody gets that. Did you also get the Ridley Scott reference(s)? The Weegee photo references? Bowie and Jaggar?
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Mar 05, 2009 9:35:54 PM CST
Can you imagine the meeting Snyder had with the money guys?
by iwasredempted
"the penis stays in the picture..."p"ok zack but it's your ass on the line!""just lose the squid mkay..""ok...touche, cocksuckers.."
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Does anyone ever tell Dr. Manhattan to put some goddam pants on, "I'm sicka lookin' at your blue junk all the time!"
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I wanted to hear 'SLY TO STAR AS COMEDIAN! AHNOLD AS MANHATTAN! CGI BRONSON AS SQUID' just once in these--
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flawed yes, but not enough to stop my enjoyment of the experience. visually incredible, attention to detail was beautiful, film was made with love, and utter respect for the original material. but last 1/4 is slightly weak. decision to cast to no a list actors was a master stroke decision making you believe the characters more, for me all in all a far more believable bunch of costume wearers than anything i have seen before on screen. (was never quite sold on nolan in a bat suit). i haven't read the original since it was first released and at times it really was amazing how i had flashbacks of frames i remembered as a teen. to see a comic book realized in such a stunning way made the fanboy in me cry with joy. a truly authentic on screen comic book adaptation created for adults, perhaps the best i have witnessed, directed with real flare, snyder should be applauded. and seeing an IMAX R rated movie was surreal, i urge u to make the effort to see it at an imax screen, so in your face its a guilty pleasure.
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Oh yeah, the references were all there for those curious enough to look. In fact, I was amazed how much commentary/observation Snyder managed to cram into this film... and not-so-amazed at how many reviewers choose to overlook it all to focus on the perceived mysogyny/positive vilolence/blue wang on display. It's particularly hilarious that in Debbie Schlussel's review of the film, she compares people who like the film to citizens of Idiocracy, all the while bashing the film for all of the surface elements. It's a scary world we live in when so few people want to look (ahem) under the hood to see what makes a creative work tick. Wow, almost a double pun there.
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He's been creaming his jeans over all the news on THE EXPENDABLES. That guy is probably going to spontaneously combust when that flick hits the screen.Charles Bronson as The Squid. Make it happen, Sal!
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very good movie
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by her responses to people who commented on her review debbie has some serious psychological issues, mostly due to the fact that no man wants his dick anywhere near her not once has this film been marketed to kids, and she could have easily googled watchmen to find out what the themes were before attending now zack may not have adequately explained the doc, but i just dont see what the big deal is about full frontal cartoon nudity...the fact that many reviewers did gives me pause i wonder if any of the reviewers in european countries cared this much
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We don't hate everything. Plenty of people in here gushing about Watchmen: The Cosplay. We just hate Kevin Smith movies and the fucktards who have turned him into the lamest cult ever.
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that is the basic reason moore has given up hope on hollywood movies are controlled by the suits, not the artists
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as gibbons filled the book with injokes and easter eggs, zack has done the same with the movie this has gone right over the heads of most critics, and many fans in this incarnation, ozy represents all that has become bad with the superhero movie dan dresses like the dark knight, but talks like adam west zack missed alot of things, he nailed that part
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i really, really liked it
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I rest my case.
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Stop whining about those type of things as if u were an immature lil kid, grow up!
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We're all sad pathetic shut-ins because tensticks vomited out a nine billion word essay about a film he hasn't seen at his blog and then decided it was so important that we'd all want to read it too, but then when it turns out we didn't we're the assholes.
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...not only can you read her by the responses she gives, but also by the audience-pandering "reviews" and "commentary" on her site. And people want to criticize Script Girl for being an attention whore!
It is amazing how many people are stuck on Dr. Manhattan's anatomy, Jesus people, are we all second graders at heart? At the screening I attended on Tuesday, there was a burst of nervous laughter every time the Doc appeared nude on screen. With every frame of the film packed with so much information, why is everyone so focused on that singular bit? -
what they did to wanted then we wouldnt have idiots using terms like "watchmen cosplay" cuz we all know, the audience would never buy a story about super villians killing off all the heroes in every alternative universe, but they will buy the plot line that a society of hitmen is controlled...BY A GIANT FUCKING LOOM...FUCK HOLLYWOOD
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...I'm not even saying his essay was bad or he didn't have valid points just pointing out he posted it here and when people didn't gush he decided everyone sucked.
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Debbie Schlussel's review is by far the most incompetent and obnoxious that I've read on this movie. And I thought The Hollywood Reporter review was bad! Her review reads like a wannabe Michelle Malkin, but without the vocabulary. She doesn't seem accustomed to expressing ideas -- or even identifying them. At least she spares her readers from watching her lips move while reading The Cat in The Hat for its narrative complexity.
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Her opinions on nearly any topic can be safely ignored--or, better yet, mocked.
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its a skreed and somehow, she ended up at a screening with people who bring their kids to r rated movies...who she has seen before didnt know it was so fucking ez to get tickets to screenings in nyc but it was like, when she saw the opening credits, her mind went to mush...NAKED DEAD LADIES...LESBIAN WHORES!!!! OH MY thing is, i think moore took that commentary about female heroes right from wertham's book
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I find all the screaming over Dr. M's Dong of Doom hilarious. If it was, say, Silk Spectre's shinny all over the screen, all the fanboys would be drooling and only a few feminists would complain. I think those who are screaming about how terrible it is that a wang is on screen for more than a brief time are saying more about their makeup than the Doc's...
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Does it have talking cats or something?
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C'mon Kevin Smith.
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I'm not sure what's scarier: her ranting, or the folks in the comments thanking her for "exposing" Watchmen for "what it really is".
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I. Cannot. Wait. To. See. This. Again.
I have no possible way of understanding the negative reviews of this totally phenomenal, epic piece of terrifying art. It is fucking groundbreaking at every possible turn. It is a pure feast for the eyes, it is electricity for the heart and white-hot fire for the blood.
People who complain about this film are either threatened by the sheer audacity of it - the sheer NEWNESS of it, or they just flat out need to check their limp-wristed little pulses.
I went in merely expecting to have my 20 yearlong wait for this film mildly satisfied, instead I got a fucking piece of timeless art that deserves a place alongside the pulsating canons of Kubric and Polanski.
I am still lit up like a christmas tree from this EXPERIENCE.
That's what it is: an EXPERIENCE; a massive, damp, rock-hard cock of an experience, driving into the golden, churning ass of the sun. -
to give us this information (Shmooginz's review).
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but yea no problem. although i do act immature like alot of the talkbackers here, or get banned for questioning harry, i do have sense from time to time.seeing it in imax tommorow to though. my first time being to a imax theatre. really wanted to see a lot of movies in imax but never had the chance. glad i finally am. i think dark knight is still in release here so maybe i can catch that on miax, even though i have it. just would like to see it the way it apparently "has to be seen"
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At least she didn't give away major spoilers in her, um, 'critique'. But, she is correct though. I AM sick. I want to see a film where someone who brings up Obama reviewing a movie set in an alternate 80's, by a writer living under the shadow of Thatcher, is thrown to the lions. Or the Kracken. Or Cloverfield. Maybe even a fucking...squid.
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what the hell...when i registired i didnt type my name like that...f'n a man, f'n a
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Never thought he'd be able to do such a good job. Haters can hate, but it was, at very least good.
See this interview with Snyder? Pretty good. Pity about the Australian douchebag doing the interview.
http://www.gamearena.com.au/videos/browse.php/12/7047/date/ -
We all have our fanboy geek moments of righteousness. Some of us are then able to come down from the mountain. Others never do, or see the need to. Fuck 'em. As for Imax, I've actually never been impressed, so I'll be seeing it on Arizona's biggest non-Imax screen. And in a few months it'll come to the theatre I own. Maybe the hype will be enough died down by then that I'll be able to view it with some more balanced and objective perspective. We shall see. Enjoy it, regardless!
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them decide whether to allow their kids to see watchmen, is too fucking retarded to have childrenwhen i was 15, there were alot of films i wanted to see, my parents controlled what i could and could not see...and they didnt need anyone to tell them what was appropriate i do like how wingnuts turn everything into a psychological disorder hate bush? bush derangement syndrome think palin is an alaskan hillbilly? palin derangement syndrome think watchmen is a fine piece of literature that should be respected? watchmen derangement syndrome think ill sick moores snakegod on her
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http://www.comingsoon.net/news/startreknews.php?id=53507
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LOL star trek looks cool....
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How many people are watching it right now lol :)
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whats the new trek trailer like? And are you a fan? If not do you think the trailer works for the non-trek crowd?
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Mar 05, 2009 11:21:57 PM CST
I heard a rumor that people are tossing squid at the screen.
by fiester
Is this true?
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Mar 05, 2009 11:22:42 PM CST
as in did it work for you (assuming you are nt a trekkie)
by southafricanguy
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No, it isn't true. You've never heard that rumor.
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Then whipping them at the screen at the end.
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but that shitty player it's on makes it look bad, too.
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but that Star Trek trailer was incredibly well put together.
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If that's true then humanity has not yet coined a term to describe someone that lame.
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I grew up with Star Trek and this looks good. I just like to have fun at the movies. To me this looks like a lot of fun.....good old fashion pop corn fun.
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holy shit, i still dont know if j.j's star trek will be really good or just so-so, but that trailer looks amazing. It could actually be really cool.
But I am still really skeptical about star trek's ability to completely cross over to the mainstream film audiance and be a huge hit...i mean c'mon its star trek (and i like star trek)
Anyone else got any thoughts? -
I also grew up on star trek and this movie does seriously look like one huge truckload of fun. I love how colorful and fast moving it appears.
fOOMAS what do you think about its ability to cross over? as per my above post -
...Star Trek will be like Casino Royale. The hardcore fans will bitch (ala he's blonde, there's no Q, whatever) but to the general public it will just look cool and it will be the biggest hit of the series to date.
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if nothing else this will clearly be the most epic and large scale trek ever. I like most of the old movies but they always felt like glorified episodes of the tv show. And they always created the impression that the trek universe was really small.
This look like we will finally see all the things that have always been talked about but never seemn (starfleet academy, the future San Francisco, Vulcan etc -
thats what im thinking, a huge amount og bitching from long time hard core fans (especially about continuity) but this will almost certainly be the most successful trek, and many may consider it the best
But whatever happens, it will revitalize the series and create new fans, which lets be honest trek sooo badly needs -
this will sell big internationally, something trek has always had great difficulty doing. My God its possible people may actually think trek is cool...is that possible?!
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And they will, just to fuck with everyone (and also make $$$$)! Besides, all they need to do is say that the sequel is "a movie studio's fictional adaptation of the REAL characters" that was made a few years before the events of the movie...just like that goofy cartoon in the viral newsreel video was supposedly made to cash in on the popularity of the heroes. That way they can use the characters and not really fuck with Moore's so-called "vision."
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I think a whole new crowd of geeks will be born in to this world after this film. I think everyone will have something to love and complain about. But to answer the question the crossover is working. We shall truly see on opening day...I am there!
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Mar 05, 2009 11:43:41 PM CST
i would be really interested in hearing the opinions of
by southafricanguy
non trek fans, even those that dislike trek previously. How does the trailer play for you? Do you agree/disagree with its chances of success?
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Lets here some more talk of my favorite graphic novel!
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and ive been a lapsed trekkie, stopped going to see the movies or watch any of the tv shows, it just became quantity over quality and it started to get really watered down.
But this has me really excited for trek in the first time in my adult life. Now if JJ can just deliver like im hoping he can -
than superman returns or guy ritchie's Sherlock Holmes (at least judging by the script)
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southafricanguy.......you are a smart person....enjoy the film!
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btw is watchmen any good, dont know the comics at all and not sure if im going to like it
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is pretty much glowing. I no longer fear disappointment.
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Mar 06, 2009 12:05:49 AM CST
Matthew Goode was miscast, Brad Pitt should of been Ozy
by most excellent ninja
alot of people are saying it now. i was right all along.
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My two biggest issues with the movie were this: First, the conversation with Laurie on Mars was truncated. That was one of the most moving parts of the book, Manhattan's realization of the value of humanity. I do not understand for the life of me why that was trimmed down.Secondly, Adrian is way too calm and collected after he realizes his plan works. His "I DID IT!!" with tears streaming down his face showed how much emotion he put into his plan, followed by his slight doubts over his justifications with his talk with Manhattan. Those just weren't there and I feel the movie suffers for it. I still really liked it, but it's just so goddamned difficult to judge the movie on its own merits without the knowledge of the book in my head.
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especially now at this part of his career. Isn't it said in the comics that Veidt is in his mid forties?
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fuck your Nolan hate, Dark Knight did the cop movie well, it was filmed brilliantly. You need to stop being such an idiot. Years now. Stop acting like a 14 year old taking any psychological chance to attack something.
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Secondly, Adrian is way too calm and collected after he realizes his plan works. His "I DID IT!!" with tears streaming down his face showed how much emotion he put into his plan, followed by his slight doubts over his justifications with his talk with Manhattan. Those just weren't there and I feel the movie suffers for it. ---- exactly, and the thing is this could of been done, what would it add? 2 minutes? easily shave off 2 minutes from other stuff earlier. This is what makes you remember the story.
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I'll see it on a weekday to avoid the crowds, and I still want to re-read the book to be fresh - I haven't read it in years. I hope I'm wrong about Snyder.
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That is the question. I'm going to see the movie tomorrow afternoon, and I could either pay $9 and drive 4 miles and see it on a regular screen, or I could pay $15 and drive 13 miles and see it on IMAX. Is IMAX really going to be worth the extra money and hassle?
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Mar 06, 2009 12:58:19 AM CST
not bad, considering it should have been a 6 hour movie.
by the ghost of marcus brody
Yes, it's cg heavy and Zach Snydered, but it's a faithful adaptation. Not as epic as I thought it was going to be, but a good film overall.
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did i not say that it was an excellent cop movie? it was but it was not a genre bending comic book movie
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Yup, he's the best (sorry Harry) and he gives it a full star rating!
He gives a glowing report, talks about the 'experience' of seeing Watchmen.
Awesome.
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I think fans will be too busy referencing the novel, which I was victim of earlier this week. But I think non-fans, who have no fucking clue what this story is about, will enjoy the hell out of it.
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Actually, if Tom Cruise played Ozy, it would have been FANTASTIC.
But the problem is, once you cast a big-name actor like that in the role of Veidt, the audience will AUTOMATICALLY know something is up with that character when he's not part of the main "crew" of "Watchmen", and the ending will be spoiled for them. THAT'S why you don't see Pitt or Cruise or Law playing the part. So please, for the love of God, stop bitching about how a big namer would be better. -
Based on the current cast, pple would wonder why he picked such a role when it takes a backseat to everyone else- that's the problem. Any actor who is "bigger" than the rest will draw the most scrutiny from the viewing public, and thus uneducated viewers will focus thoughts onto that character: "When is Ozy back onscreen?" "Why did Law play a character who only has a few scenes?" "Maybe he's the hero at the end?" "Maybe he's the bad guy? He must be special?" So it actually works out best for the laymen that Veidt is played by an unknown. Despite that conclusion, I think Cruise would have knocked the role out of the park.
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She's an awful writer, and thus I must conclude that anyone who follows her must have sub-par intelligence.
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i clicked too soon but i dont really blame goode for any deficiencies in his acting the part he was given a different role to play in this movie than the veidt of the book and zack never shouldve agreed to allow him to use different accents, one for teh public and one for the private veidt and i still think it was a mistake to remove capt metropolis as the one who tried to form the crimebusters (watchmen) if you werent going to have adam west portray hollis, it wouldve been a great cameo for adam in that role, and it wouldve hidden from the audience for just a bit longer veidt's attitude about his role in the world
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She assumes that the inclusion of any act deemed barbaric/violent/completely unacceptable by society (for example, the rape in the film) in a work of art (be it literature or film) makes that work unworthy of praise, makes it a base addition to society, incapable of shining a light on the darker side of humanity (she'd rather live in a world of roses where all Muslims are bad guys), and makes it a piece of shit. Close-minded to the max. Fucking idiot in the end. NOT WORTH DISCUSSING. I'd never heard of her until this talkback. Now I wish I never had. She doesn't deserve any more attention.
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law is a huge fan of the book during the pub for the movie, he would be saying that over and over audiences knowing that wouldnt question the size of his role, or why he was cast...he lobbied for the part they would question why cruise, but of course cruise was in tropic thunder in a small supporting role, so it mightve worked...i just dont want this work sullied by that scientologist
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Holy shit, that's a GENIUS idea. I never would have thought of it, though, and I can't blame Snyder for not thinking of it either. Still, as for Veidt, I didn't have that much of a problem with him. I just didn't appreciate the "evil villain-head tilted downward while eyes look up" position that Ozy gave the Comedian after he said all his crap at the Watchmen meeting. That kinda hit us over the head that Ozy had a grudge against Blake.
But cest la vie. I dunno if anyone figured it out or if it ruined it. The main point is, one of the good guys killed a bunch of people for peace, and another good guy, Rorsach, opposed it. I think that still gets across. -
I'm assuming they were true to the timelines/flashbacks/etc that were on the printed page.... But a more semi-linear format might have worked better for character dev. Comedian's death would have had more of an impact if placed further along in the story. He needed way more screen time... Movie is still better than recent hollywood junk.
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Not many pple would know Law lobbies for the part. Even if they DID and did not know the story, they would think "Why the FUCK would Law lobby for this part when he's in only 3 fucking scenes???" They would suspect there was more to it, there was some importance that would be revealed at the end... like he's the BAD GUY. Sorry, I agree with you on other points, but definitely NOT this. A name actor would get the character better, but would ultimately be very WRONG for the rest of the film, especially the villain's reveal.
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i'm sick and tired of hearing/seeing anything about watchmen. shut the fuck up already
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....on an online board formatted for written communication is like showing a picture of oxygen to someone who is drowning. drum/snare/curtain.
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Goddamn it. I'm sure if Snyder reads this his heart skips a beat. So sweet, so obvious of an idea and nobody thought of it.
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There are moments in the movie that are just so full of life and the intensity is lifted from the comic. Unfortunately, most of it just felt so flat. Jackie Earl Haley fucking rules in this movie and owns the role.
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I think it's a pretty marvellous adaptation and an awesome movie experience overall.I really loved the adult setting, complete with sex and violence in an amount I haven't seen in a long time in a big budget hollywood production. The many references and subtexts of the graphic novel are still intact, that's also great. Biggest positive surprise for me: Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach -- he fucking owns the movie! I really liked that Snyder used fresh faces and not any superstars.Oh, and the ending: works fine for this movie, just as the original ending works fine for the graphic novel.
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that's harsh.
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I'm still absorbing it, and I'm such a fan of the GN, that just seeing a faithful adaptation was enough to entertain me. So while I know that I personally will see it again and buy the dvd etc, I can't say yet whether I'll recommend it to people. I think also just because I'm so familiar with the source material that it clouded my vision on whether the pacing was good, etc. But it was faithful enough to the GN, hitting on many of the important lines of dialogue that struck me when I first read (ie. "I did it 35 minutes ago"), that as a Watchmen fan, I loved it.
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The highest rated movie there is Sawshank Redemption. One of the most bloated movies you'll ever watch.
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I liked it, slow at times, rushed at others. I think the changes covered ground well. I didn't like Ozy at first, but the more on screen the more I liked him. Tired, goodnight.
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and best opening titles ever. I'd pay to see that run over and over for 2hrs 37...
I've seen in twice and the time flew both times.
I'll be seeing it at least once more on the big screen. And I can't wait for the extended DVD either. -
...try so hard to be the Watchmen from the book. I think it got very close. I'm amazed and in awe of Snyder getting so much of THE book in there. As a fan of THE book, I'm very happy. But I have to wonder, and the trade reviews drive home this question, what would the uninitiated take from it?
We got our film. Did the rest of the world get something that they could attach to?
Or does it even matter?
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It is thoroughly enjoyable. It is certainly flawed, but never boring. There are some scenes I loved and some that I just couldn't. The fact that the movie is so unbelievably faithful to its source is its blessing and its curse. There were some things that transferred beautifully from the book and some that just didn't work on screen. There are some terrific performances, and some are less-than spectacular. It is incredibly violent and incredibly stylish. It feels like it was filmed and made in the '80s, and some scenes were very reminiscent of Blade Runner.
In the end? It's Watchmen. It may have its shortcomings and may not be able to convey all the themes of the novel, but it is still Watchmen. I look forward to seeing it again on Saturday.
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or did Silk Spectre II sound just like Padme? They almost look the same too. Maybe it was the bottle of wine before the movie started. Any thoughts?
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just saw it and i have a strong psychological need to express my excitement over having a violent watchmen film here. thanks. you filthy, filthy apes
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...the DVD will be better....felt like they rushed some parts and I know DVD will take ome time with some issues...just read the book so a little sensitive to those things
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WAY too long, and kind of boring.
However, there were some cool scenes, but hardly worth the 10 bucks and hardly worth the nearly three hours of watching. I'd pass if i were any of you. save your loot. -
Shawshank? Bloated? Surely you meant Bloatedly awesome?
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Got that Padme thing dead on. That was my problem with her. The Padme Effect!
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Dark, gritty and shockingly violent.The lame PG-13 "violence" in TDK hurt the movie a lot (especially in the opening bank robbery).
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I don't think this is the definitive film version of Watchmen, but I feel that way about Lord of The Rings, so my standards are very high. Anyway.. one thing..The music: not counting Phillip Glass, the musical choices make zero sense and are very very very out of place. There should be an online petition to remove these songs from the film. 100% no debate, have to be removed. I have minor gripes about it all around, I need to see it again, BUT, it stayed true enough(albeit on a superficial level) to the graphic novel to keep me intellectually involved... I LOVED IT FOR WHAT IT WAS. I do, I fcking love it, but its a popcorn movie. I merely wish it was a film.
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have you seen the latest ,apparantly confirmed, news about Avatar? Sounds really interesting (check it out at marketsaw.com)
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At times the acting was sub-par. The pacing was odd in the funeral parts, if you didn't read the book it may be hard to follow what was happening. The fact that he threw in extra little things didn't bother me, it was kinda cool because it stayed true to certain aspects of the characters. But the fact that Jon left "his" watch in the chamber instead of Janey's was kinda stupid. Did Snyder miss the whole Fatman stepping on her watch, in comparison to the fatman the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima? It was kinda strange to leave such a thing out. Oh and of course....No squid....But the new ending wasn't terrible, I just feel the squid ending what have had a way better WTF!!! kind of feel to it. Oh well
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Even with it's flaws. I was mesmerized.
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you stupid ass retards that can't admit when a film isn't as good as it should of been because you've spent your whole life waiting for this movie...which is completely sad and pathetic....just look at the reviews on RT dark knight is a far superior film...the trailers alone look like a comic book spoof movie....shity VFX terrible casting and lame ass costumes.....
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then go out with someone who looks exactly like her? fact remains, law wanted too much money, so he would never have gotten the part uh, why didnt they talk to someone like jon hamm....couldnt you see him with a blonde perm? he has the presence to play veidt
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...but that was a pretty great movie nonetheless!!! Very very surprised I liked it. I liked it even though there were giant retarded filmmaking flaws. I can't even believe I just wrote that. But it's true!
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just as there was a strong internet push to cast jeh, there was one to cast west as hollis...the role he was born for no one from the film ever talked to him, and its a shame
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Mar 06, 2009 3:24:23 AM CST
Solid - Manhattan as Common Enemy more poignant than SQUID
by doogiehowitzer
Solid flick. Dan and Rorschach were excellent - Manhattan was beautiful. Veidt was thin and I am hoping more fleshed out in DVD - but the idea to use Manhattan as the SQUID was brilliant - condensed the film, made it MORE relevant and less of a McGuffin. I can see an extra 30 minutes of DVD footage with character background making this a BRILLIANT film instead of jut really freaking good. I really didn't notice the Blue Penis too much...guess some people are just sensitive to that sort of thing.
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I'm still absorbing. I know stuff was missing. I don't think it was too long. If anything, it was too short. It did feel rushed in parts. Moore's work, because of its density, is often more of a slow burn. But did it work? Yep. In fact, yes... It was better than TDK. There were plenty of flaws, for sure. But it'll kick the ass of any mainstream audience. They won't see it coming at all.
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why do people think they can state that the film is better than Dark Knight and thats should be taken as fact. In your opinion it might be but I don't think its anywhere near as good a film as the Dark Knight was. Its just an okay movie, nothing more.
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I do wish they hadn't changed the Fat Man/Little Boy reference.
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zack remains a strong visual filmmaker he needs, and should get for his next project, a da who is much better working with actors an actor is not a piece of scenery, and its the director who pulls out the best performance this is the same problem that lucas has. sometimes he works with actors who can step above his direction, but if they cant, their work suffers i think malin is a passable actress, she just needs the right direction i think carla was told to act like gloria swanson...call me crazy
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No shelf life. You see it once, and forget about it. I could watch Watchmen... dozens of times
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Roger Ebert gave it four stars. That must mean something for a guy who has watched thousands of movies.
The thing is, if I have not read the comic book, the film is awesome. If the comic never existed, most of us would consider it great. Let us not forget that the medium of a movie can only do so much in adopting a graphic novel or book. A movie caters to the masses. Watchmen the comic book caters more to us geeks. -
That's pretty fucking low.
Spiderman 3 was 62 for fucks sake and the recent Hulk movie was 66. -
Didn't feel like 3 hours. Ate alot of popcorn. Malin Akerman is HOT! I thought all actors did good job. Thumbs up!!
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There are certain characters in literature that have influenced me throughout my life. There’s Robert Montag…from Fahrenheit 451, there’s Snake-Eyes, the ninja from GI*Joe who got a destroyed face and a lost voice while trying to save Scarlet (he turned her down afterwards and that always killed me) there’s Marv from Sin City and Dream from The Sandman books oh and lets not forget Roland from The Dark Tower series and The Saint of Killers from Preacher…
And then there’s Rorschach…
Fedora hat…trench coat…mask…all the imagery I love, wrapped up in a madman of a character that will do anything for justice…knows the darkness of humanity and doesn’t take any shit.
Out of all the characters I’ve loved, there’s a special place for Rorschach…
Now, there are some people who will try to dampen the impact “Watchmen” had on comic books. They’ll tell you it was overrated…but I guarantee they weren’t around to see what it did, how much it changed things. Don’t listen to the idiots, “Watchmen” is truly one of the most important things ever written. Not only did it finally convince the mainstream that comic books were a legitimate art form, but it treated the material with more intelligence and honor than anyone had before. Moore, along with Miller and Gaiman changed things forever with the stories they told. But Moore, out of all those guys was the most dangerous. You knew when Moore came around shit was going to get fucked up. For crying out loud he took “Swamp Thing” and turned it into a shockingly beautiful story. .
For years people deemed “Watchmen” unfilmable, but NOTHING is unfilmable, you may have to change things, but capturing the heart and soul of something isn’t hard, you just have to love it.
Zach Snyder loves “Watchmen”, there’s no doubt about it. You can see it in every frame, you can hear it in the music. The dude loves “Watchmen” just as much as I do.
But even more important, and this is the good bit…
Jackie Earle Haley loves Rorschach…
Usually when one of my favorite characters are brought to the screen something is lost. As great as job as Mickey Rourke did with Marv, it was only a 9 out of 10. There was that soul Marv had in the comic that he just couldn’t capture, it’s not his fault, I mean we’re talking about Marv here…and Rorschach…he’s even harder to pull off, mainly because he’s wearing a mask the whole time. How can you convey emotion without even showing your eyes…and half the time he’s just walking around through a scene.
But Jackie Earle Haley completely and utterly knocks it out of the park. He does complete justice to the character, completely surpassing what I thought could be done. Even when the mask comes off, he has that anger…that madness. I didn’t think it could be done, but this is a 10 out of 10. He perfectly caught the essence of the character and I wish I could shake the guys hand for that.
But there’s so much more going on here. Patrick Wilson, who I’m a fan of from “Phantom of The Opera” and “Hard Candy” is a damn near perfect Night Owl and I swear Malin Akerman jumps right off the comic book page. Doctor Manhattan looked like a drawing up there, it was downright eerie.
Far as I’m concerned this is the greatest comic book adaptation ever done. Even the changes that were made I thought were for the best, for instance, I thought the squid in the comic was goofy as hell, there was no way it would’ve worked here, I’m glad they got rid of it. The things I did miss, like the Kitty Genovese backstory and the Black Freighter I’m sure will show up on the extended DVD, but I was so caught up in what was going on I didn’t even miss them.
And damn it was nice seeing an R rated comic book movie. Zach Snyder sure does love his gore. I liked “Dawn of The Dead“…and I liked “300”...but the dude is now officially on my “badass motherfucker” list. What in the hell is he going to do next? How the hell can he top this?
He pulled it off, somehow, he took “Watchmen”, one of my favorite things ever…and he brought it to the screen in tact. I enjoyed the hell out of it, even more than “The Dark Knight” and you know what? This is the closest I’ve come to shedding a tear since King Kong died.
It’s on my top 5 movies EVER…the damn thing was simply THAT good.
Believe it…and again…pay no attention to the naysayers.
Watchmen is the real fucking deal.
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it doesn't come out in theaters in Japan until the 28th ... WTF is up with that?
Hell, it's probably getting sold on street corners right now in Hong Kong and other parts of Asia...
Staggered release dates and region encoding need to go ahead and die already... -
When you read the "graphic novel" (or superhero comics in general) you naturally have to let your I.Q. temporarily drop a little to accept it all. But on the screen, the costumes and all the angst are a little bit funny. But the film is definitely a great ride!
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Concerning gomez33: about the "pompous pricks" you identified here: you should count yourself to that list. You criticized people stating "that the film is better than Dark Knight" and that it's only their opinion. Yet as a counter-argument you used exactly that: your own opinion, by saying that WATCHMEN "isn't near as good a film as the Dark Knight was. Its just an okay movie, nothing more.". That was pretty dumb, wasn't it?Concerning RT: who the fuck cares what some critics think? What does a rating of 66% say about a movie's quality? Nothing. It's just showing how many critics were of the same opinion.
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The only problem is that it's WAY too short. I can tell that alot of scenes with dialogue, and the side characters was taken out. Like the newstand scenes with the two Bernards, some of Malcolm's scenes might of been taken out, and so forth. Rorshach's back story wasn't as poetic as it was in the GN, even though it still captured that disturbing and fucked up tone that was apparent during that chapter. The characterizations of the characters were very well established, and gave the film some real depth. The technical qualities of this film is vastly superior to "The Dark Knight", "Iron Man", and even "Hellboy 2." I don't think it's as great as "The Dark Knight", but the film isn't complete yet in my opinion. I hope those extended cuts will show this films greatness. Because it has already captured the essence, tone, and depth of the GN. It might of emphathized a bit much on the sex, and violence. But it also served a big purpose for the characters, and the violence was surprisingly disturbing, intense. Not entertaining, and funny like "300."
So my rating for "Watchmen" is an 8.5/10. It ain't the graphic novel(aka comic book), but the film isn't even finished yet. -
Go and fucking kill yourself, cmbuzzkill, you fucking prick. All illegal downloaders should be shot. Or be kicked in the nuts. Twice. Fucking bitches.
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Mar 06, 2009 4:25:31 AM CST
Oh, and Zack Snyder isn't the George Lucas of our time......
by evangelion217
He's the fucking Ridley Scott of our time. Believe it! :)
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Piss poor directing fucking obliterated half this movie. Scenes stapled together without context or purpose, he couldn't even get the actors to deliver the already good lines correctly; it literally sounded like a table read a lot of the time. I felt the material was treated lightly and with a rather childish hollywood perspective. Whoever was saying this is an adult movie was only half right.
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Interesting point mate. I was thinking something similar. Maybe an Alan Parker circa "Angel Heart"? Scott really came into his own with "Alien" and "Blade Runner." 2 Classics back to back. I know "300" was popular, but I don't think it was a classic. Snyder shoots pretty though...for sure.
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I! CAN'T! WAIT!!!
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Yeah there are scenes that make me wince. Sally Jupiter arguing with her husband was stilted and unconvincing. And, Laurie was inconsistent. I didn't feel it was a Hollywood perspective though. It's not like "X Men 3". Maybe it won't seem as choppy at 190 mins?
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Surprisingly, most of the clips that bugged me watched separately on my computer screen played out fine in the context of the movie on the big scree. And I thought Goode and Ackerman would be bad but they were just fine. Nitpicks would be just that - nitpicks. This is the best Watchmen movie you'll ever get and possibly the best comic book movie too. I was SUPER impressed on how they handled Rorschach. Sadly I think a lot of newbs will feel Jackie was just channeling Ledger's Joker. But holy hell, no punches were pulled. The movie is 10x more hardcore than that silly and weak ass Friday remake from a few weeks ago. Anyone remember that?
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Dark Knight had reports of people seeing it multiple times.
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not seen anything about that yet and is it cgi?
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Personally, I've never read a single page of the graphic novel.
Went to the 1st Midnight SOLD OUT IMAX screening and it was a great fucking time at the movies!
Seeing it on IMAX is the only way to fly here.
Best Opening Credits ever in a film and I thought the film was a captivating and hypnotizing time at the movies. Felt shorter than it was and there were many standout scenes that make this the front runner for best visuals of the year. It's early, yes, but it't the popcorn film of the year to beat. -
It doesn't work because they are assuming everyone will go up against a god. The novel makes it an external alien threat which really in terms of humanity is what they would unite against. Also the 'squid' was Ozy using Art and Science Fiction to save the world using a big comic book monster. That's poignant. Dumbass.
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Its called "willing suspension of disbelief." You do the same thing when you're reading greek tragedy and a god shows up. It doesn't mean you pretend you're stupid.
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The problem with what you're saying is that it was pretty obvious something was up with Ozy from the start, not subtle, he was creepy from the start. Also Pitt is a better actor which is why he should have been cast, he isn't scrawny like Goode either. I mean seriously, Goode looks ridiculous. Imagine the Brad Pitt from the poster of Benjamin Button wearing that costume and that headband.
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I liked it a lot. I thought some of the music choices were a bit odd but besides that I had no problem with it.
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Just watched the midnight show. Packed house. 3 theaters filled. The crowd LOVED this movie! Laughed and cheered and gasped. Great film. I'm watching it at least once more in the theater. Maybe more times. If you don't like this film... you suck. Simple as that. People who don't suck like this film. That's all there is to it.
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Mar 06, 2009 5:28:44 AM CST
I'm not stuck in here with you, you are stuck in here with me!
by antonphd
If you are complaining about this film not delivering then you are a fucking liar. You saw this opening night. You saw it with an opening night crowd. You didn't see it opening night because it sucked. You saw it because it was fucking awesome. And when that scene played out with that midnight crowd... the whole place erupted. And fuck you for spitting on one of the best crowd scenes in decades by lying about how you didn't like this film.
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CGI Bubastis is in quite a few scenes, just like the comic. And not too bad at all.
Adrian might be in some trouble when she eventually reassembles herself into Doctor Cat-hattan.. -
With the exception of Haleys amazing Rorschach and Patrick WIlson (an INSANELY underrated actor)'s Dreiburg the film, character wise, and lets face it the characters are where the piece's brilliance lies, it really dropped the ball. Veidt is robbed of most of his point and the Comedian is portrayed as a guy doing cool things in a videogame world rather than a man playing a videogame with the real world. Malin Ackerman is absolutely atrocious, delivering Star Wars Prequel-esque line readings and Dr. Manhattan criminally suffers in the process given how much of their relationship is the crux of his character. And you can pretty much disregard anyone in make-up, as they are a laughable charicature.
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I´ve seen it and liked it quite a lot, the cast is great (besides Akerman, but she´s fucking hot), it looked great and had a interesting, unique story to tell. Seemingly there are two sort of critics, these who hate the film because they expected your typical blockbuster with a lot of action and explosions and those hardcore-fans of the book, who always find something to complain about. Haven´t read the graphic novel myself, I think Snyder´s movie is one of the most interesting and entertaining movies i´ve seen since a long time.
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Bubastis' presence makes absolutely no sense because they don't explain it, and even if they did explain it, the creature's existence has no relevance since it was a foreshadowing device for the squid which no longer exists.
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BLUE DICK AND BUCKETS OF BLOOD EXTRAVAGANZA.Can we all just stop talking about this damn movie now please?
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The characters is WAAAAAYYYYY too villainous right from the start, whereas his comic book alternate is anything but. Veidt might not be able to relate to people as an individual, but he DOES care. It's all right there in his final dialogue with Osterman. In the film he might as well have been twirling a moustache.
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I was expecting Forgetting Sarah Marshall levels of uncomfortable dong footage but it really wasn't that bad. Seriously. Grow up.
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Mar 06, 2009 5:36:35 AM CST
i don't find akerman hot but i also don't think she is as bad
by slappy jones
in the film as people are making out.
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OK. I saw it. And I'll write in more detail later. But having gone in with as sincerely open a mind as I possibly could given all preconceived bias, and my desire to be at the very least entertained....I was still left, mostly, flat. It was an overwrought, incoherent mess. Some absolutely stunning, striking, beautiful moments. But still a mess. And it was definitely a Thalidomide baby. Oh, all the elements were there; it wanted to be great. It just couldn't figure out what it was supposed to be, and it tried to be too many things at once, and it failed at all of them. Also, I have to say--I absolutely did not give a shit about any of the characters, except perhaps Rorshack, who has as many contemptible traits as admirable ones. It made a play of wanting to build them up as real people, but that's all it did. It never followed through. I'm actually disappointed that I *wasn't* wrong. Oh well, so be it. I'm sure I'll see it again, regardless.
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That was more of a joke. I was mostly referring to what had to have been close to thirty minutes of fight scenes that I'm sure could have been replaced with some more proper character development.Did I really need to see three more knot-heads get their joints broken the other way?
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NudeGobblin - thanks. looking forward to seeing what she looks like.
polyh3dron, true but there is still the extended edition to fix that...well the fact he made her at least. -
Is that what makes Watchmen better? because it had the violence? The Bank Robbery scene is one of the most masterfully directed scenes with shot and composition and timing you could ever see. Better than anything in Watchmen. Let me guess, you watched TDK once.
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I think you'll find that the people who rave about the movie can't understand those who are let down by it. But be assured, you're not alone in that opinion, or even in that small a minority.
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Glad to not be alone. And I'm sure come May-time, I'll be on the "Pro" side for Trek, in the face of the purists and haters. Appreciate the backup here regardless. And now to bed. I've let this dominate the last twelve hours of my life. Aside from re-reading the GN a bit, I'm getting away from Watchmen for a while.....
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*Spoiler*
Yup. -
Consider this... nobody knew how great this was all these years. Now the whole world is going to be raving, loving Watchmen. Is it what you loved for decades? No. But it's 95% there and you HAVE to love that so many people love Watchmen. The crowds tonight... they haven't read the comics for the most part. But you can bet your ass that they will consider reading them now. Maybe you won't love the film as much as the book... big surprise, right... who ever does? But millions are going to fall in love with Watchmen now. I didn't think it would happen... but it's happening. Enjoy this moment. Even if you didn't enjoy the film as much as you wanted to. Sometimes joy comes from being happy for others.
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How were the crowds at your screening?
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Everyone seems to relate these two. Isn´t there enought place for 2 great superhero-movies? I, in fact, didn´t liked TDK as many others. I just didn´´t liked the new, superserious, real and gritty setting of the movies. The whole urban environment, they thrown Batman in, seemed and looked...just uninspired and plain boring. As a comicfan I liked the needed suspension of disbelief, the colourful characters and their background far more satisfying and intersting. So my opinion: TDK=maybe better movie, Watchmen=greater overall experience
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And I hope you are right. But with the caveat that they DO read the graphic novel, because like I said with the exception of Rorschach (god dammit Haley is so fucking good) and Nite Owl II, the films characters pale in comparison. Mostly because of Snyders dramaless directing. But if you are right about what you say then I suppose there is some light in all of this.
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Liked it. I'm happy, content, relieved, whatever. There are some complaints, but none too large to gripe over, and all too petty to even discuss. Overall, yes...good, not great, good.
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You have to lower your IQ to read a comic? When was the last time you read a comic? The 70's? fucking idiot.
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It's definitely more enjoyable than TDK and will likely only get more so when the Director's cut comes out. Most of the criticism I've read concerning things like bad acting or bad makeup turned out to be bullshit. It looks fine and the acting is fine. What doesn't work is Manhattan as a unifying world threat. The rest of the world would simply not accept a rogue Dr Manhattan after 20 years as a military tool of the US. The fact that half the posers on this site think Bush engineered 9/11 is proof that this plot does not work.
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Bubastis was a protype at genetic engineering. This is what gets me about the movie and the 'squid' simple, don't make it a squid but make it something engineered. Take out a few minutes out from other parts of the movie(there are plenty) put the scene where Laurie and Dan visit Veidt and show Bubastis and then Laurie mentions Eugenics and veidt mentions genetic engineering and maybe an ultimate vaccine against Radiation or something. Mention through newscasts about missing genetic engineers. Then Veidt explains "I engineered a creature that would be teleported made to look like a fake Alien invasion" specifically spelt out just like the novel. People would go "wtf?" but then show the imagery of a big Cloverfield esque monster and bodies everywhere. That shuts them up. See I can do better.
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Yeah, it wasn't perfect. But there was a lot ot love there and I very much enjoyed a lot of the scenes. I guess it wasn't quite better than the sum of it's parts and sure it can't really compete with the comic, but a good time at the movies nonetheless and definately a hell of a lot better than 99% of the rest of the crap hollywood makes. I also have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of critics are going out of their way to love this movie in order to pour shit on TDK and those who liked it. Look at Jim Emerson from Scanners or Andrew O'Herir from salon.com, both of whom railed againt The Dark Knight like it was the antichrist made flesh. They're fawning all over Snyder's film. Pretty funny.
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You can watch your silly Batman in the 90's films. But that photpgraphy against that grimy Gotham from Begins which looked like it came straight out of a Detective Comics arc is special to watch.
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Made me spit out coffee all over my damned lap, f'chrissakes! Too. Damned. Funny.
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The Professions.
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Mar 06, 2009 6:29:25 AM CST
Loved It... of course 2:40 hours is not enough to fill the whole
by prajadhipok
what a great achievement in film making though, the story was good that it filled two and a half hours and not a moment felt like it was dragging, JE Haley was fantastic as Rorschach.
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This movie was as faithful and respectful as a 160 minute movie adaption could have been while still being the best adaption it could have been. Think about that, all these people agreed that the movie comic book was unfilmable, yet they all have something to say about Snyder's courageous and faithful effort to do just that. Snyder got the job done because he had what it takes, period. Proving a lot of us wrong in the interim. It was the Watchmen; it truly was the Watchmen. You simply cannot say that this was League of Extraoridnary Gentlemen or The Spirit. Zach Snyder made a movie out of Watchmen, and it looked, felt, and seemed like Watchmen. He made it a little more palatable for the masses while keeping the general tone and ugliness. Bottom line, he didn't whore out your precious comic book. Sure the movie had its faults but Snyder ultimately proved Moore wrong and all of the whiny fucking squid maggots wrong by making an ending that was far more poignant and deep than the book ever did in copping out with a giant squid. I am just as guilty as anyone for crying foul ovewr certain minor details withut actually seeing the movie. I was blown away, my expectations remained very high and they were met. That being said, the casting for Ozymandias and Silk Spectre II was horrendous. The poor acting by Akerman and Goode threatened to bring the movie down several times and was only saved by their peers. Here's where I daisagree with everyone, I thought the movie's weakest point was Jeffrey Dean Morgan, he looked the part, he really looked the part, but what a horrendous performance. The stilted dialogue readings, the complete lack of the emotional content of the maniacal Comedian; why is everybody praising this performance? I thought he sucked ass, and the CGI on Veidt's little kitty? Ouch. Other than those few points, I had a great fucking time and my hats off to Zach Snyder, he really pulled it off.
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They can do it! They have the technology!
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This movie was great and epic and beautiful.
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Nothing competes with a R-rated comic book hero movie done right. Snyder wins. All haters must die by Rorschach's fist of justice.
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I'll be back !
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He began life as Jon Osterman and then after the accident he gradually drifted further and further away from humanity until Laurie left him, which completely severed the last threads of his connection to mankind. Later, on Mars, Laurie teaches him the value of human life, which allows him to reconnect. Of course, at this point he's been framed for killing millions and is forced into exile just when he was ready to return to Earth. Tragic indeed...
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You're probably gay and don't realize it. Otherwise, it wouldn't distract you so much.
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I find myself REALLY liking this movie. Saw it last night in a packed theater, and audience reactions were classic. some random notes I've compiled.
1. Noticed just about everyone shift in their seats and sigh when it didn't end after SS says "It never really ends, does it."
2. If someone changed all the slowmotion stuff to regular motion, I think the movie would have sped by and been improved dramatically, instead the slomo seems like an amateurs attempt at "deep filmmaking", note to Snyder, slower does not mean more impact, I think people would've left the theater breathless rather than winded if you know what I mean 3. The Comedian ruled, along with EVERYONE in this movie...yes even Nite Owl that people are saying is so boring or not noteworthy, note to critics, just because someone cries or acts real spacey doesn't mean they're great actors- I found Nite Owl's forced/weary smiles to be way more evocative than Rorshach's outright weeping 4. The violence and sex seemed pretty added in. Snyder seems immaturely convinced that every two seconds he must prove this ain't your daddy's superhero movie. We get it. My mom would've seen this until Rorschach's cleaver appeared. I love sex and violence, but not when it's jammed in (unless I'm watching certain types of movies). 5. A couple scenes were pointless. Again, learn to cut judiciously and get rid of slomo.
That's about it on complaints. After all of that, I can't remember seeing a movie with so many layers and fun things to notice--- well, ever in my life. You can recite the plot to TDK pretty easily, and actually most movies are fairly straightforward. This one gets pretty close to brilliance. For all my judgments, when I compare it to anything I've seen in a while, it blows them out of the fucking water. This movie rules. When we were in the snow at Veidts headquarters I got the chill I felt during Empire Strikes Back. This movie is going to be Empire for some kids. I can't wait to see this flick again. Hail Watchmen!!!! -
Mar 06, 2009 7:47:26 AM CST
While some of the "needle drops" were questionable...
by finding forrestal
...I thought "All Along the Watchtower" worked beautifully. Especially when it first kicks in during the smiley face reveal on Mars.
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Fuck you for making them "the watchmen" and having all those goddamn watches in the movie. That was the most infantile stab at the meaning of an excellent title I've ever seen. Did anybody here, when they first read the graphic novel really believe that the Watchmen we should be watching was JUST the superheroes? Or was that graffiti saying something more? C'mon, Snyder.
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Hell, friggin' Jon Osterman / Dr. Manhattan WAS a watchmaker before his father threw it out the window and he became a scientists instead. Then theres the Doomsday Clock. So, yeah, watches are a predominant symbol in the comic as well.
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enjoyed it.
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Not as a standalone version. You can't film the Watchmen. What you can do is commit some of it, lovingly and carefully, to celluloid.
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right before going to work. Hopefully it won't suck because I'd like to be in a good mood when I'm at work.
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...But some friends insisted on going to an Imax showing tonight. Too bad it was cancelled when we got there, and had to settle for a normal screening anyway. So how was it? Good. Very good. Zack Snyder has comfortably moved into the A Leauges with this. The ending? I prefer the books ending, but in the context of the film, the new ending works better (not sure if there is any point including a the black freighter WITHOUT the squid ending.) The lack of squid ending also left the finale feeling a little generic. Goode and Ackerman seemed fine, just because of the removal of so much story that Akcermans big emotional scene itself is flat. More than a couple of plot holes also present due to certain chunks being removed, but nothing crippling (and certainly nothing as overt as The Dark Night). Fantastic and trippy adaptation. Wish it would be a hit so that we could see more mind blowing 70's style sci-fi (aka Heavy Metal) on the big screen with todays tools. Unfortunately, if my screening was anything to go by, we're in trouble. AT LEAST 12 people walked out on the film, all couples. I've never heard a more vocally negative reaction from the audience upon leaving the theatre either (at least they didn't bitch during the film like they did in No Country) but yeah, comments like "Worst shit I've ever seen" "I wouldn't even watch that crap on TV" "Fucking boring" etc. But yeah, this is a niche film for fanboys and people who like cult cinema, just on a larger scale. All in all, I can't wait to see a lengthier version on DVD. I only wish they could then reinstate the ending (even though it wont really suit the film as is.)
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I read the comic years ago, and yes its a comic not a graphic novel stop being so damn pretentious and love on the art form.
I chose not to re-read it till after the movie I wanted to try and judge the film on its own merits and I gotta say it was pretty kick ass. The one thing I think almost everyone will agree on is Rorschach was spot on with and without the mask.
The complaints about the slo mo fighting? I don't mind it, I think it adds physical impact to eat slowed down hit, also and more importantly Synders fights are comprehensible you can clearly see who is hitting who unlike many films where its a jumbled god damn mess. -
I saw this at midnight last night. Loved it. Just fucking loved it. Unfilmable? Hardly. Was it perfect? Nope. Nothing is. But as far as what I wanted out of a movie after reading the comic? Priceless. It's a three-hour movie that I can't wait to see again. And, goddamn...the thing looks beautiful. Already pining for the Blu-Ray. One of my few minor complaints? I wouldn't have used SOUNDS OF SILENCE during the funeral scene; that song's too closely connected to THE GRADUATE. But really...that's all I got worth noting.
I know there are some of you out there that won't like this. I can't honestly fathom why, but clearly you're entitled to your opinion. But if you're a fan of the comic and you can't be contagiously happy with what Snyder and Co. were able to accomplish, I just feel sorry for you. That's it.
And the end of the film - sorry, purists - is way better thematically, tonally and temporally than the book's. -
Won't see it again until the 'full length' DVD is available. Didn't like/appreciate new ending. Was unnecessary. Missed the squid greatly :-(
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"...This despicable trash will find an audience among sad sociopaths, deranged pseudo-intellectuals and brutalised, immature men of all ages. I just hope that there aren't enough of them to make it a hit. If there are, God help cinema." This probably why I loved it so. This film is totally destined for the cult section of the video store. But man, "normals" will not like it at all. I love how newspapers like The Daily Mail (I smell tabloid rag, can U.K. readers affirm?) will piss and moan about this flick, but not blink an eye at morally repugnant and shallow, empty slop that hollywood throws our way day after day. Not to mention the reviewer complains that the nature of the comics setting is to dated to make it relateable to current events, yet apparently believes Richard Nixon actually was president in 1985 and that the soviet union was disbanded in the 70's.
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They talk about genetic engineering in Veidt's interview at his first scene. We see the cat action figure. The cat being there makes sense - the only creature Ozzy can relate to anymore is a miracle he created. He is lost in this "comic book" world.
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This movie was great, the book was great-but they are just different enough to piss people off-not me-in my opinion-the squid in the book was the worst part, the movie ending was better, the only thing that they should have had more of was Rorshach, they should have showed how he fucked the therapists home life up, that was a great side story in the book. Loved the movie, took three people with me that had never read the book and they loved it, as a stand alone or a companion-it was great
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but forgivably iffy, if you know what I mean. From the advanced reviews I was expecting to have to forgive a lot of small stuff in favor of the bigger picture. But I was surprised by how complete an experience it was, I couldn't really find anything to complain about, other than it starting to wear me down a bit by the midpoint but that had more to do with me having been up for 22 hours by that point.
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No dude, Bubastis was created as a precursor to the creature to be unleashed upon mankind. It wasn't about relating to an animal. It was an experiment.
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It's not tragic, in the book he leaves because he grows bored of humanity.
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someone tell me
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"Decent book, better movie, fuck the squid." <-- This should be on the poster.
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Snyder did. He really did it.
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In the comic the cat had three functions. Preparing the squid, showing that the world is more outlandish and comic booky thanks to Doc Manhattan and to build ozzies character. Two out of three in the movie.
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...In the comic book I much preferd the Rorsharch stuff, but in the film, my favourite stuff was the Dr. Manhattan stuff.
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"So tell me doctor. What do you see?" BRILLIANT!
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I barely noticed he had no pants on. What you choose to focus on says more about you than the film itself. I mean PEOPLE magazine spent its first two sentences on his genitals alone. Is male nudity really that controversial in our society? Wow. Unbelievable.
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Although, I was pretty tired while watching it, so I really need to see it again to give it the benefit of the doubt. Overall, it was good. The changes didn't bother me too much. My biggest complaint is that I felt a little detached from it all. I didn't really care about these characters or what happened. Rorschach was the one exception...he was perfect. Actually, Comedian and Night Owl were very well done, as well. Again, this might be because I was exhausted. I might feel very different once I watch it again. My first impression is that something is missing. Not a major, "I can't believe they didn't have that!" type thing, but something important. Hopefully, even if I feel that way on second viewing, the extended cut will fill in the holes, much the same way the ext. cut of Fellowship of the Rings did for me.
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Yes challenging. Its time to unlearn what you have learned about some of those songs. Time to look at them in a new light.
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I went and found that paper's website. One of their top stories is "First picture of millionaire who committed suicide!" so yeah it feels pretty raggy. The guy who wrote that review really liked High School Musical 3 and called Twilight "thrilling," so that's what kind of stuff he likes.
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Well, that makes sense then. Honestly suprised at the negative reviews out there. Not so much from comic book purists, thats to be expected, but from regular critics. At worst the film is still offers beautiful mind bending images and sequances and much more of interest than 99 per cent of hollywoods output, especially its big budget tenpole releases. Sort of, don't cut my fucking head off here, Tarsem. Everyone loves his new film, but most hated The Cell (notably not ebert) which struck me as strange, since even though the story was dirt it was undeniably a beautifully made film. Oh well, some of us are shallow pretty picture lovers I guess. But I'll shoot a dog if Transformers 2 gets better reviews.
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is practically the same ending as in the book with the note that they took away the squid and Dan witnesses Rorshach's death. Saw the 12:01 showing at AMC Castleton in Indianapolis.
I do have to say, however, that though this is not the DEFINITIVE version of Watchmen (that will happen this summer hopefully as Mr. Beaks suggested) this was a VERY GOOD version of Watchmen. I plan on watching it a second time in the theater. I also plan on watching the complete version this summer. There is no prose to tell you how wonderful this film is. Its just simply fantastic. I love this film, and if Zach Snyder doesn't make another good film in his life, that's okay he's earned all the coin he wants from me to watch all his future movies with this one fantastic endeavor. Good work Mr. Snyder I salute you. -
Went to the midnight screening, I thought it was stunning. Snyder followed the souce material very close. The changes that were made were small. I thought the ending change actually worked better for the movie. Rorschach stole the movie for me. Can't wait for the direcotr's cut to see what was trimmed.
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And it's not just about the squid. They take out Dan & Laurie's love making and replace it with them storming out in righteous indignation. They cut Manhattan and Ozy's exchange then feed Manhattan's last line to Laurie creating a totally different meaning. They make sure to emphasize that Sally only has feelings for the Comedian because of Laurie when in fact her feelings are far more complicated than that. I felt they robbed the last 20 minutes of the moral ambiguity of the previous 140.
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...She says that to sally, but it was pretty clear from the conversation earlier in the film and her arguement with her husband that alot more was going on than that. After all, she did fuck him, so she had to have felt something prior to birthing Laurie. I guess she was just saying she kept a relationship with him of sorts because of Laurie. Its actually one of the parts of the film that was so obviously trimmed for time that it leaves a minor plot hole. Just like you see Laurie exploding in anger and grief when she finds out the comedian is her dad, yet nowhere in the film is she made aware of what transpired between her mother or what the comedian was really like. I actually prefered Night Owl witnessing Rorshachs demise.
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A perfect example of someone tacking a shit on some celluloid.
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In the book was a moment where I just wanted to smack Moore in the face. Owl's best friend just got killed and he's off having sex after millions just got killed? Give me a break.
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To the person who said people booed the ending of Fellowship, my experience was quite the opposite. The theater I was in joined together in one of those slow, momentous claps that you usually only find in movies themselves. They liked what they had seen.
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Cheered when it was over. Says it all, me thinks.
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...But Watchmen is now probably the most negative reaction I've ever seen from a cinema crowd to a movie. The bulk REALLY hated it. Also the most walkouts I've ever seen. I really don't see this going over well with most people at all. Especially the retards who make up the bulk of the populace.
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the more I think about it the more it works. Jon can't rejoin humanity, just when he's convinced every single person is a thermodinamic miracle - he's making a sacrifice. A godly one. Awesome. All the existentialist questions and threads in the story are answered by humanity uniting against a common enemy - Jon. God. Awesome. And finally, Jon, the only Superhero didn't improve the state of the world until becoming the enemy. The world doesn't need heroes, it needs villains. Awesome.
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I was astonished at how good this movie was, after all the bizarrely off track criticisms. Men to my left cheered while rorshach terrified fellow prisoners (and cleaved a head repeatedly), and the women to my right squirmed and discussed leaving when hands were visibly sawed off. Yet the men squirmed while a blue thumb wormed into Laurie's mouth and when laurie and niteowl fucked in Archie, while the women sighed and relaxed. I found a lot of it much more funny and nod-nod sarcastic than those around me (mostly thinking of the NiteOwl and Laurie's posturing. But you can't deny that the reaction shots during ozymandius's assasination attempt were played for cheeze. and were perfect for framing Ozy's view of the situation.) I thought it was brilliantly spot on with it's mixture of tones. While there were some strange details (line delvieries, music, edits) they're just the difference tween a 9.8 and 9.7 out of ten. I can't understand the ego of freaks who are arguing the movie was somehow a complete failure on every important level. jeeeeeez.
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seriously, the more I think about it now, the fact the film ends basically saying "Veidt is right" and just having Laurie and Dan go along with it like nothing and not having Doc Manhattan have the line really fucked the ending. Completely changes the tone and the purpose of the story. Veidt was always supposed to believe what he did was right, Manhattan makes him think maybe not. Laurie and Dan are weak and give in etc. Damn. Yeah, I can't help but notice that if it was left as the book then audiences would of found that it was 'very intelligent' and confronting. rather than giving you an answer. FUCKED!
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Quit crying.
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ya seen the movie - now take a step back and look out your door and see the REALITY of this country. Jobless rate highest since 83, stocks are in the toilet, and if you make more than 200k a year you are somehow magically "Rich". Atlas is shrugging people - and only the "Rich" have a chance of turning this around. The cries for salvation will not be answered in D.C., but by the "Rich"... and right now the "Rich" are whispering "No". Enjoy the bread and circus...Socialism and the end of the republic is near. But hey, at least Brad Pitt got a forum with the power whores in DC this week.
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I even didn't mind the ending change. Squid or no squid this film was just incredible and I cannot believe its been made like this. Its relatively uncompromising and I think much of the mainstream are going to be really bored.
But for those of us that have read it and waited so long for the images to come to life - its not far off a religious experience.
That many on here are going to bitch and whine about the tiniest little details just goes to show just how high a bar the makers set for themselves - and I honestly think they pretty much hit it. -
I loved it. But i still think the mainstream is not going to get it.
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knowthyself,
The lovemaking is important because Laurie is devastated by their own shortcomings and basically view the world as coming to an end. It's important because it humanizes them. Plus, in the comic, Dan & Rorschach aren't played up as comrades as much as they are in the movie.
WNB,
I didn't read any of that in Sally's actual dialogue and scenes in the movie. I got that she felt shame for sleeping with the guy but had no real feelings for him outside of Laurie. Again, this really isn't how it's played up in the comic. -
Mar 06, 2009 11:07:34 AM CST
My Theatre is serving Calimari instead of Popcorn!
by alanmoores_squidblood
How cool is that?! I"ll probably just get a small order, even though I could get a medium for just 50 cents more. I'm cheap, what can I say.
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Mar 06, 2009 11:18:47 AM CST
The oddest Watchmen review I read was in the NY Times.
by orbots commander
Review today in the Times from A.O. Scott is weird. He doesn't critique the movie so much as he does his attitude towards it. He thinks it's downbeat and violent. No mention of script, and a line or two for Snyder's direction and for the acting.
Ditto strange review in today's Wall Street Journal by Joe Morgenstern: his describes his attitude towards the subject matter rather than a review of the movie. Note that I haven't seen the movie; I usually pick up these two papers anyway at my Long Island Railroad station coffee shop/news stand. I sat on the train for my ride and, blam, in between reports of Citigroup trading as a penny stock and GM possible bankruptcy, I read two bizarre Watchmen reviews. -
I loved it, very much, and think it will be remembered well. One thing I noticed is that not one of the things cut from the book was ever missed. a great condensation. still, Snyder could have played with the format of the story a bit or cut it down even more. I mean, the structure of the book felt weird in the movie. We're groovin' to this mask killer plot and seeing how it kills/nullifies the world's heroes, and we stop the movie cold for 10 just to give Manhattan some backstory. restart the movie, get back going on the mask killer, then stop the movie cold again to see Rorschach's prison life, then watch Dan come to terms with sexual inadequacy. Finally, by the time we get back to the mask killer, we can barely remember what the movie was even about.
I know, that's how the book was, but it is a little off in the movie. Perhaps being so precious to the book isn't such a desirable thing. perhaps it should have been rewritten a bit to give it more push, cut down on Manhattan on Mars and give Dan and Laurie some leads in the mask killer plot to pursue while coming to the decision to suit back up. I don't know.
I did how ever really enjoy the movie as is and may see it once more in the theater. And as much as I complained that this cut should have been cut down more, I'm curious about the longer cut. -
I think i need to see it again, but yes I liked most of it
A few problems for me came from the film putting too much of the dialogue from the comics straight onto the screen. Sometimes it just didn't work. Another problem was exposition. A lot of scenes needed to be more cinematic in terms of revalation, rather than, once again, taking it straight form the books to the screen.
One such scene was the drinking session between the two former Night Owls. Hollis telling Dan about the original Minutemen was pretty bad. Way too obviously bringing the audiece up to date. Could have been much more subtle.
The end felt a little flat.
I still don't know what to make of that ending
Rorschach was portayed brilliantly, as was the Comedian and Night owl.
Some scenes are stunning.
As I left there was quite a few people who looked like they had no idea of what they had seen, and a couple of people who outright claimed it was "shit".
I don't know how this will play out with people who haven't read the graphic novel but I have an idea.
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I think that's part of the addition of Dan's final beatdown on Veidt, and having him say you've "distorted, perverted the human soul." Gives us something to think about, that Ozy's plan may crumble in an unexpected way. Wouldn't a sequel based on the film's ending be cool, where the world is forming a "Fear Manhattan!" cult and killing innocents to sacrifice to him, and such. That ozy may have set off a sort of reversion of the human soul in what he did? That'd be cool!
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There was this awesome line somewhere, 'I'm glad I ordered the four legged chicken'. Such a strange but wondrous addition.
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Kindly take your bullshit elsewhere. kthxbye!
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cool! less cool were the amount of teenagers. Not adults and 20 somethings, TEENAGERS. I'm 24 and I was seriously starting to feel old amongst them. Maybe that Debbie chick was right about the watchmen commercials on American Idol means it's marketed to kids. oh well, they could use an R rated movie anyway I suppose.
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I was amazed, like, "Did I just hear that!?" that was cool. I'm really thinking I'm gonna see this again. And I'm liking the changes, the tweaks to the dialogue made to the film.
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WTF?
http://tinyurl.com/cje6fw -
Find me in the Twitch TB. I gotta ask you something....
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"Willing suspension of disbelief" is exactly what I described. You're not pretending that your stupid (that makes no sense, anyway), but you ARE suspending rational thought, to some extent, in favor of allegedly admiring men in tights. My phrase was intended as hyperbole, obviously. None of this, however, address the fact that no "superhero" movie has ever effectively explained the silly costumes. But in WATCHMEN this is just more painfully on display because it is all played so serious. But none of this is comparable to the use of deus ex machina, as you suggest. It's more in keeping with accepting sound in outerspace in STAR WARS.
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The Dark Knight was a better film because it was a good plot, and good story, and I cared about the characters.
The comic book mini-series had everything the Dark Knight had and was very compelling and I truly cared about the characters. I don't really care about the MTV style done by the so called visionary director who simply didn't do anything visionary for 300 but follow the images Frank Miller visualized to a T.
It's been my big problem with Zach Snyder in every new movie he's done from Dawn Of The Dead to Watchmen it seems he doesn't care about substance but cares more about his music video pazzazz which is boring me to death. Snyder --- well not Snyder but ever since David Fincher came onto the seen I had a feeling movies would never be the same again. Fincher wasn't too bad because at least he can actually read what a good script is and cares about the material. Talent like Michael Bay simply engross themselves in the camera and their video routes and refuse to take chances and mold their talent to better more compelling projects. Sigh, so here we are with other film that does it and to me it's like an old magician pulling the bunny out of the hat. -
Now, granted a midnight screening for a movie like Watchmen is a biased audience loaded with people who desperately wanted to see the film and love every last frame of it; but at the Cantera 30 in Warrenville, Illinois half of the audience stood up and applauded when the credits started rolling the other half sat and applauded. As we walked out, i couldn't believe all of the peope who had wlaked in there expecting the world walked out saying, "Wow, he actually fucking pulled it off." Give the fucking guy some credit, people. He made a Watchman movie as good as anyone could have. No squid? Didn't miss it. Slo-mo? It worked. Every comlaint that everybody had for the last six months ended up being at best, minor annoyances or inconveniences. 20 years from now, we're going to look back at this movie and realize it was as groundbreaking in its medium as the comic was in its own respective medium. Whether that's good or bad, only time will tell. We won't, I can almost guarantee, be bitching about the squid. One other sidebar, all the flak it caught for the misuse of All Along the Watchtower? I've seen that movie used in countless Vietnam scenes through the years, or in movies drenched in the 60's. When Hendrix's thick playing kicked in last night, it was the first time in my opinion that the song had ever been properly used in a movie. Fans of the comic know why Snyder used it there, but my God, I thought it clicked, I thought it was the perfect song for that scene. Anyways, all you trolls, give Synder his day before you really start tearing it to shreds because deep down inside you all know on some level that he did it, he puled it off.
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For me it was close to being boring.
There are numerous scenes that aparently are only in the movie because they are in the comic.
But those scenes draaag on and on without moving the story forward.
Rorschach was fun. Whenever he was on screen I woke up and his scenes were also the ones that got any reaction from the audience.
Regarding the overall story I have a BIG problem. This is clearly a story from the cold war 80s with all the fear of the nearing world doom by atomic warfare.
However this is where I cannot relate at all. This fear is gone.
When you adept a movie (even a holy grail like Watchmen) shouldn´t you adept it for today´s audience and change the threat to global warming or corporate conspiracies??
I think this is doable while staying true to the "meaning" of the source material. -
I'm still trying to take it in, like Manhattan' "Glow Worm" schlong. My group (my best friend and my wife) arrived at nine. When it was over, I was pleased, but unsure. But, I literally dreamt about it all last night (well, what remained of the night.) I can't get the grace of the opening out of my head. I can't the perfection of Jackie Earle Haley's performance out of my head. I can't help but think that folks complaing about Malin Ackerman's character revelation are just being silly. I think anyone complaining about "99 Luftballoons", and how it was used, is fuckin' ridiculous. (That was spot on.) All the tid bits that people are bitching about are just nitpicking IMHO. I think this movie will change comic films forever. No one, anywhere, in the comic world, should complain about what Snyder's done here. He manages with a 2009 film, to grip you in the way Moore did for the first time in '86. Between TDK and THE WATCHMEN the IRON AGE was just introduced to the silver screen. But more than that, we've skipped into the MODERN AGE. This will obliterate the expectations of the averge movie goer, and they'll want more. And boy do we have a lot to give them: PREACHER, SANDMAN, Y THE LAST MAN, 100 BULLETS, GRENDEL, TRANSMETROPOLITAN... you name it. It's here. The age of the indy and Vertigo imprints has truly arrived.
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"Lowering your IQ" is obviously hyperbole...but the main point (that you completely miss) is that I specifically mentioned "superhero" comics. There is a vast difference between comics and stories of men in tights fighting crime with accelerated angst & violence (used to try and legitimize the worthiness of the genre). Movies like WATCHMEN and THE DARK KNIGHT really push this concept because on one hand it is all so real and serious...but on the other hand, things like the costumes are so obviously improbable in the very worlds that the films try and create. Moore clearly realized this in creating the comic book series. But the movie is really great despite those things that I don't think ever work in these films.
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...on Rotten Tomatoes. 62% overall, 45% w/ major critics. Get behind the blast shields, I smell bomb!
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Was that in the Gunga-Diner scene? I do recall a moment where we could hear another table's food order, and it sounded very loud, like unintentionally so. We all noticed it. But I just caught the last part, the "... chicken" line and assumed it was "I'll have the chicken." But 4-leggeD? Did they really say that?
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but can't wait to see it without the "I have to snicker at a penis, or a butt, or a boobie" crowd. That grew a little distracting. I saw this with my wife (who is a comic junkie) and a good friend (who is not) and they both thoroughly enjoyed it, despite having minor nitpicks. My friend is fairly representative of the average movie goer, he likes things to be cut and dried, and he found that the heroes were "selfish." I explained to him some of the points made in the book about superheroes, and after that he seemed to get it. Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to go into this expecting a straightforward comic book movie, and they will be let down. The other side of that coin is that those of us who know what we're in for will probably go see it again, offsetting the negative word of mouth.
Now here's why we can stop comparing it to TDK: They have almost NOTHING in common. TDK was not adapted from a comic book. It was a new story INSPIRED by the characters, but the story was not a direct adaptation of existing material (insert Killing Joke and TDKR reference rebuttals here). Watchmen was, and should be judged accordingly. The only thing I could find in common was feeling the same anticipation while waiting for Rorshach to be back on screen as I did waiting for the Joker. Here's one I'll lob at those who have balked at the music choices: While I didn't think every choice was entirely fitting, I was satisfied with "The Times..." and "All Along the Watchtower" specifically because they were referenced in the book. -
Why didn't Owl Man and the chick from Stryper just hide in a refrigerator when they dropped the bomb on their makeout session?
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knowthyself... in the graphic novel dan didn't know about Hollis until after the prison break and the Archie sex..
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I'm not over-hyped. I'm just looking forward to a good movie with great visuals, in my favorite genre.
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I smell asshole. Yours. Is it really necessary to gleefully parrot out film ratings from Rotten Tomatoes? What, are you getting a kickback for promoting the site? Fuck off already!
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this is what i'll be looking for on second viewing. I only remember seeing "emphatically electric vehicles" during the final city zoom. If they managed to hold off that detail, it seems like a genius stroke of story compression - and an answer to all these morons who complain that the movie's themes should have been more contemporary. Ie., instead of electric power everywhere being one of many thing Manhattan just did in the 60s, it only occurred as a part of the master plot/climax. pretty sweet. no?
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Whole lot of ranting going on.
Decided to join in.
Found movie to be very good.Compromises made for reputedly unfilmable book worked.Juvenile snickering at nudity distracting. Price you pay for midnight showing with delinquents.Probably see it again. Maybe crowd more mature then.HURM. -
does ozy still kick nite owls and rorscrachs ass? you know when they first confront him? please for the love of god they better had left that in
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"No fanboy has any right to complain about this movie"
http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/blog/boneyard/watchmen-perfect-a-slightly-spoilery-review/ -
WHAT THE FUCK???
http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=xd6MuqrnHog
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I haven't seen the movie yet but I'm watching the TV coverage/interviews with the director, cast, and WRITER Dave Gibbons. Not co-creator, or co-author, but writer. I know Mr. Moore chooses not to receive any credit, but is that how Mr. Gibbon is credited in the movie?
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was fucking smoking in that Silk Specter outfit. It doesn't justify the beating or the rape, but damn was that a sexy outfit.
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Already posted, and being ranted about as I type this.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40327 -
......kick your fucken ASS! I want you off the FUCKIN' set you prick! NO don't just be sorry! THINK for one fuckin second. The......THE FUCK. ARE. YOU. DOING???!!!!! Are you professional or not?! Do I fuckin' walk around and rip tha... no SHUT THE FUCK UP BRUCE-- do I wa... NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!! DONT SHUT ME UP. Am I gonna walk around and rip your fuckin lights down in the middle of a scene? Than why the FUCK are you walking right through all DA DA DA DA like this in the background? What the FUCK is it with you? WHATDONCHUFUCKINUNNERSTANNND?! ! You got any fuckin idear about-- HEY ITS FUCKIN' DISTRACTING having somebody walking in behind Bryce in the middle of the fucking scene. Gimme a FUCKIN ANSWER!!! What dont you get about it!?! AAAAOOOOOOOOH!!!! GOOOOOOD for you. And how was it? I hope it was fucking good because its useless now isnt it? FUCK sake man you're amateur. McG you got something to say to this prick? Well somebody should be fuckin watching him and keeping an eye on him. This is the 2nd time he doesnt give a FUCK!!!!! About what is going on behind the camera. Alright? I'm trying to fucking do a scene here and I'm going "Why the fuck is Shane walking in there? What is he doing there?" You understand my mind is not in the scene if you're doing that. STAY OFF THE FUCKIN' SET MAN. Fuck sake. Alright lets go again. No lets not take a fuckin minute LETS GO AGAIN!!! And lets not have you fucking walking in . Can I have Tom to put this on please? You're unbelievable man. You're unfuckinbelievable. Number of times you're strolling and fucking around in the background. I never had a DP behave like this. UHHHH you dont fucking understand what its like working with actors. Thats what that is. THATS WHAT THAT IS MAN I'm tellin you. I'M NOT ASKING, I'M TELLING YOU. You wouldn't have done that otherwise..... I'm gonna FUCKING kick your FUCKIN ASS IF YOU DONT SHUT UP FOR A SECOND!!! Alright? I'm gonna, you want me to go trash your lights? You want me to FUCKING TRASH EM? Then why are you trashing my scene? You ARE trashing my scene!!! You do it one more fucking time and I ain't walking on this set if you're still hired. I'm fucking serious, you're a nice guy, YOU'RE A NICE GUY.....but that dont fucking cut it when you bullshit and fuckin around like this on set. Yeah you might get it but he doesnt fucking get it. You might. HE. DOES. NOT. GET IT. No I dont need any fuckin walking. HE NEEDS TO STOP WALKIN!! I ain't the one walkin. Get Tom and put this back on. Lets go again. Seriously man, YOU AND ME-- WE'RE FUCKING DONE PROFESSIONALLY. Fuckin ass.
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so i haven't been reading a lot of the talkbacks for spoilers.
but thanks for letting me know this info -
Hurm.
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OK, I agree with you there.
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He should have read the Graphic novel.
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......kick your fucken ASS! I want you off the FUCKIN' set you prick! NO don't just be sorry! THINK for one fuckin second. The......THE FUCK. ARE. YOU. DOING???!!!!! Are you professional or not?! Do I fuckin' walk around and rip tha... no SHUT THE FUCK UP BRUCE-- do I wa... NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!! DONT SHUT ME UP. Am I gonna walk around and rip your fuckin lights down in the middle of a scene? Than why the FUCK are you walking right through all DA DA DA DA like this in the background? What the FUCK is it with you? WHATDONCHUFUCKINUNNERSTANNND?! ! You got any fuckin idear about-- HEY ITS FUCKIN' DISTRACTING having somebody walking in behind Bryce in the middle of the fucking scene. Gimme a FUCKIN ANSWER!!! What dont you get about it!?! AAAAOOOOOOOOH!!!! GOOOOOOD for you. And how was it? I hope it was fucking good because its useless now isnt it? FUCK sake man you're amateur. McG you got something to say to this prick? Well somebody should be fuckin watching him and keeping an eye on him. This is the 2nd time he doesnt give a FUCK!!!!! About what is going on behind the camera. Alright? I'm trying to fucking do a scene here and I'm going "Why the fuck is Shane walking in there? What is he doing there?" You understand my mind is not in the scene if you're doing that. STAY OFF THE FUCKIN' SET MAN. Fuck sake. Alright lets go again. No lets not take a fuckin minute LETS GO AGAIN!!! And lets not have you fucking walking in . Can I have Tom to put this on please? You're unbelievable man. You're unfuckinbelievable. Number of times you're strolling and fucking around in the background. I never had a DP behave like this. UHHHH you dont fucking understand what its like working with actors. Thats what that is. THATS WHAT THAT IS MAN I'm tellin you. I'M NOT ASKING, I'M TELLING YOU. You wouldn't have done that otherwise..... I'm gonna FUCKING kick your FUCKIN ASS IF YOU DONT SHUT UP FOR A SECOND!!! Alright? I'm gonna, you want me to go trash your lights? You want me to FUCKING TRASH EM? Then why are you trashing my scene? You ARE trashing my scene!!! You do it one more fucking time and I ain't walking on this set if you're still hired. I'm fucking serious, you're a nice guy, YOU'RE A NICE GUY.....but that dont fucking cut it when you bullshit and fuckin around like this on set. Yeah you might get it but he doesnt fucking get it. You might. HE. DOES. NOT. GET IT. No I dont need any fuckin walking. HE NEEDS TO STOP WALKIN!! I ain't the one walkin. Get Tom and put this back on. Lets go again. Seriously man, YOU AND ME-- WE'RE FUCKING DONE PROFESSIONALLY. Fuckin ass.
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That's essentially what watching the movie is. Now, if you've speedread, chances are you saw amazing art, some strange literary asides, and moved past all the under the hood stuff and photographs (even the pirate scenes just because they look weird). You got a barebones appreciation of what WATCHMEN really is. And that is exactly what the movie is, for better or for worse.
"Massawyrm" said this film is the equivalent of a Penguin Blowjob. I disagree: this film is a quickie blowjob from the love of your life is who running late for work, but will STILL give you a blowjob and shoot you a smile on her way out, promising you more later on in the evening. Yeah, bittersweet, I know. But for all the cool shit this movie gets right, and all the changes it makes in the name of adaptation (and I feel this film is a perfect ADAPTATION, in the true sense, between one medium to another), it is Far Too Rushed in its ending.
That said, three things: One, a pair of boots have never looked as sexy as Malin Akerman makes them look. Two, the movie was for the fans, no doubt about it. If you haven't read the book, your reaction will more or less be what it would have been upon reading the book, but brought to an extreme. I repeat, non-fans will love it or hate it, and a lot of those feelings depend on how they feel about the superhero genre and the comic medium from the get-go. It's a big pill to swallow, not necessarily hard, but big (no Manhattan jokes, please).
And three, WATCHMEN is a visual feast on parallel with Blade Runner, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and The Matrix. This is a stunning work of art. Even the peripheral "Art of" and "Portrait" books have more style to spare than your usual summer blockbuster. This screams "Special Edition," "Director's Cut," "Ultimate Super Goofy Director's Cut."
At first, I wanted to lobby the inclusion of the SQUID back into the Director's Cut, but you know what? Harry's right - the Squid is still there. And for all intents and purposes, in the medium of film? It's a BETTER SQUID. It's all about character, AND economy.
Dr. Manhattan is already fantastical enough for the world of Watchmen; using his energy signature was a masterstroke. Speaking of strokes, and going to economy, look at this way. (Not to be gross, but) Going back to "Wyrm's" blowjob analogy, Veidt's bombs are the equivalent of your quickie blowjob chick using your spooge for lube, instead of getting that tricked out raspberry-mango KY Jelly she brings out for special occasions. She's in a rush, she's already late, YOU'RE LUCKY TO BE GETTING THE QUICKIE, frankly, and the outcome is about the same. So, get over it.
In closing, this film is already in my top ten. This film will be dissected, dismissed, championed, lionized, and misunderstood. It's not an easy film to digest. It says a lot, but leaves even more unsaid. It asks the viewer to rethink upon its ideas of heroism and villainy, and justice for ALL. That's an achievement. That's greatness. And that's Watchmen.
Go See It In IMAX!! -
Likewise, today’s jaded audiences won’t be satisfied with vintage mid-1980s style violence. Everything about Snyder’s film is “Watchmen Extreme:” It’s no longer enough for Rorschach to beat up a dozen cops, jump from a second floor window and get arrested; now he has to beat up another dozen before they wrestle him to the ground. Nite Owl and Silk Spectre II don’t use high-pitched “screechers” to disable the inmates and prison guards, they just beat the shit out of them. And – not content merely to wipe out central New York – Snyder destroys no less than the six biggest cities in the world.
Speaking as a 25-year fan of Alan Moore’s work, my curiosity at someone finally managing to bring “Watchmen” to the big screen is tempered by other, conflicting emotions. For starters, there's annoyance that Ackerman is all wrong for the role of Sally Jupiter, and Goode is far too callow to have trod the paths of Alexander of Macedonia. There’s also exasperation at the stripping away of most of the story’s nuance – for example, in the comic Blake joked about his whereabouts when JFK was assassinated, here we see him firing from the grassy knoll. It’s also unclear if Snyder and writers David Hayter and Alex Tse are unaware of the fact that the group never referred to themselves as “The Watchmen” or just ignored it. -
It was only locked for a few days. It came back up when Kurzinski Valentine and Kurt Lockwood were banned, so their hundreds of posts were deleted and it opened back up. Check it out...http://tinyurl.com/chxnom
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Cheers for that DGDB. My life has been so void and empty without the Baleback. I feel restored. Renewed.
Now get off the fuckin' set you prick, I need to make up lost time and get back to being a PROFESSIONAL -
Maybe throwing keys out of a rented Lamborgini.
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THREE WORDS...WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION....DUMBASS
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"You have no idea how hard it is to be your friend!" Why the fuck wasn't that in there? It was on stinking line!
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Best. Comic. Movie. Ever. Fuck the haters.
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You suck. I read the last thing you wrote. You suck. You suck. You suck. Way to check out other girls, you cunt. And then talk about it online. you cunt. cunt cunt.
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You either have multiple personalities, or will be sleeping on the couch for a while. Agree bout the outfit though. Smokin!
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Roll over and play dead!
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Moore can't write women for the life of him. From Evey in V to Spectre in Watchmen. He hates them and just makes them dumb nagging women who get in the way of the men or arejust their for their sexual gratification.
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That is all
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I think Manhattan is more poignant because than the SQUID because he is at once an ALIEN to the people of the world, but is a somewhat known entity at the same time. And in either case, I don't think Moore was implying the people of the world were untiting to fight the SQUID, but were uniting in FEAR of an unknown power. What would YOU fear more, and unknown alien power, or your weird neighbor down the street gifted with apparently limitless power who you watched over years becoming detached from his humanity?
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Yep, they definitely said four legged chicken in the part you mentioned.
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absolutely loved the movie. I don't if that means anything; bu t I am definitely looking forward to reading them now.
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The movie was spot on perfect up until they arrive at Karnack. Here is my reason why I didn't like the end. I was okay with Dr Manhattan being framed for the killing. I was NOT okay with Nite Owl seeing Rorschach getting killed, and then Nite Owl freaking out and beating the shit out of Ozymandias. It was against character for Nite Owl and it just had no place in the movie at all. I would have preferred the ending from the book in that respect. But no, the movie is far from the piece of shit that many are making it out to be. It just kinda falls apart at the end, that's all.
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While it didnt give me the OMFG feeling that I had from after seeing The Dark Knight I felt it was a very well done film. Yes there are some glaring flaws but still it was a very good movie. Malin Akermen was a bit wooden but it was worth it to see her nice booty and ta-ta's I guess you cant get a better actress to do a near soft core sex scene. Speaking of witch, it was too long. But those are my only bitches. The opening was brilliant and it really did a great job of staying true to the comic besides that non squid thing.
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I waited years for Watchmen to be made into a movie. I first read the graphic novel when I was a Freshman in High School. I thought it was brilliant when I first read it. I liked the concept of super heroes being all fucked up. I also liked how many of these super heroes made decisions for the public at large based on what they thought would be good for them.
I never thought it would be made into a movie until rumors started popping up about Terry Gilliam, Darren Aronofsky and others wanting to take a shot at the material. While I was excited about the prospect, Alan Moore pretty much killed the idea by saying that Watchmen was unfilmable.
Now, Moore always bitches about his properties being made into movies. While I agree with him on The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, I really liked From Hell and V for Vendetta. I think they, the directors, stayed true to the feel of the graphic novels. So, I didn’t know what to expect with Watchmen.
It appears Alan Moore was right.
After careful consideration since seeing the movie last night, I have to say that Snyder, while delivering a very solid movie, may have missed the mark on this one.
Now, I’m saying this with the point of view of someone how has read the graphic novel. And, before you go on to say that I’m one of those guys that screams “The book is better than the movie” and that I’m just a petty little fanboy . . . hear me out.
There’s quite a bit of stuff that’s missing or completely changed in the movie. This isn’t little stuff either. It isn’t like a certain character’s hair was different or a certain character didn’t say one of my favorite lines. No, not at all . . . there are certain things missing and changed that are of great consequence. I’ll get to that in a bit.
I first want to say that there were some things that Snyder hit dead on. And, one of his greatest accomplishments in the film was who he chose to play Rorschach. Damn, it’s as if that character leapt from the pages of the graphic novel right onto the screen. And, his capture by the police is pretty much exactly as it happens on the novel. Through it all, Rorschach is what really grounds this movie. In the end, you really empathize with him.
Dan Dreiberg is also very well cast. His character also lends quite a bit of weight to the film. His sequence at the end in Antarctica, although a departure from the graphic novel, saved what may have been a dead scene.
Dr. Manhattan is exactly what you would expect and I have to give Snyder credit for the CG effects. Also, I appreciated that his origin story was faithfully adapted.
The Comedian was also pretty good, and pretty much what you would expect from him.
But, I had a problem with pretty much every other character in the movie. Laurie (Silk Spectre II) was flat, and Carla Gugino (playing Sally Jupiter) pretty much just phoned in her performance. I was pretty disappointed in that. But, it was Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias that pretty much killed the movie for me.
He was just so flat and completely disconnected. His character was played as almost a direct copy of Dr. Manhattan. While Dr. Manhattan had a reason to be so disconnected with humanity, and his remoteness could be understood, the same can not be said about Veidt. He just came across as almost aloof and his last scene in the movie has looking almost psychotic. His wooden performance really ruined the experience for me.
Like I previously mentioned, there are some sequences in the movie that really, really work and stay true to the graphic novel. The Comedian’s raping of Sally Jupiter is a direct copy from the graphic novel as is the prison break out. There is also the flying love scene on Archie that most, if not all, fanboys will love.
But, there is plenty in the movie that doesn’t work. Veidt is the apparent villain in the film, and Snyder pretty much lays it out in the first hour of the film. There is absolutely no subtlety about this. And, that is one of the things I most hated about the film. Also, Captian Metropolis has disappeared in the movie and his role is adopted by Veidt, which was a foolish move in my opinion.
There is also the dynamic between Laurie and Sally Jupiter. Or, to be more precise, the lack of it. In the graphic novel, Laurie is pissed, bitter, and resentful. In the movie, you just don’t get that. There is no sense of anger in her, which makes her forgiving her mother at the end extremely unimportant.
There is also Dr. Manhattan talking about how the tachyons are interfering with his perception of the future . . . and he says this 20 minutes into the film!! By the time tachyons become relevant in the film, which is at the end, you have no idea what it’s all about. This was a huge mistake by Snyder.
But, the most egregious sin in the movie has to do with the squid. Those of you who have read the graphic novel know exactly what I’m talking about. It is not in the movie. And, it is a glaring omission. The event, or events as they are in the movie, that takes place has to do with replicating Dr. Manhattan’s power. That has nothing to do with the graphic novel.
This is not small thing. This isn’t about what a character might have said or not said. This isn’t about how a character might or might not look. It isn’t one of those petty fanboy things. This is huge.
This is akin to having an old guy give Moses the 10 Commandments instead of having a godly force strike them from the mountain side. This is akin to having Dorothy land on the White Witch instead of landing on the Wicked Witch of The West. This is akin to making Darth Vader a woman instead of a twisted old man.
This is huge.
And, I can’t get over that. I can’t ignore that. And, most of you that have read the graphic novel will not be able to ignore that.
For those of you that will go into the movie not knowing what to expect, I figure you will probably have a good time. It’s not a bad movie, but it’s not what Watchmen should have been.
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gay... sad, but true...
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Mar 06, 2009 3:14:10 PM CST
Malin did the best she could with the cunt God gave her.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
And this is where its taken her. FLY MY LITTLE BEE!! FLY!!
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...She was fine. Its a threadbare character made even more awkward and confused by the large chunks of her story cut from the film. I thought Goode was as good as the role required. Perhaps physically he just doesn't have enough presence. Hes such a minor component of the finished film though. Oh, and weapons of mass destruction? More of a threat if they actually exsisted. Sort of like the soviet unions imaginary stockpile.
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I believe Snyder pulled it off and kept the core of the story for the movie. The ending worked fine.
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...I'm not a fan of the comic book. I've read it. It's okay. I prefer the movie to be honest. I just wish the movie wasn't so obviously going to be a disaster, because after seeing it, I want to see Snyder and Finchers Heavy Metal up on the big screen, or Finchers Black Hole. I mean there is a wealth of sci-fi and fantastic fiction out there that would look fucking awesome up on the big screen, just like Watchmen, but alas, audiences just wont take to it. Which sucks, because its back to watching boring ugly shit like Transformers.
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The opening credits
Truly capuring the isolation of Dr. Manhattan
Jackie Earl Haley and Patrick Wilson
Veidt beating the crap put of Night Owl and Rorschak
Ackerman's unbelievable ass -
I don't know anything about watchmen and not a big comic book fanboy...nothing intrigues me about this movie, why should I go?
Also the description "adult comic book" is what they said about Iron Man LOL give me a break.... -
http://tinyurl.com/9w9493
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fuck what you all say I'd totally bone the hell out of her. Then again, I'm hammered drunk so whatever
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visually, and story wise.
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Over the years, you whiny little bitches have turned into annoying and ridiculous parodies of yourselves. You're like babies having self-indulgent tantrums in public just so a few people will look at you. Most of you aren't angry at the films and filmmakers that you tirelessly criticize, you're angry at yourselves for being worthless little shits who don't have the stones or the talent to make your own art.
Watchmen was fucking brilliant. I've never more greatly anticipated a movie's release, and I've never had my hopes and expectations met so completely. This is undoubtedly one of the grandest and greatest films ever made. Most of you 'fanboys' (what a stupid fucking thing to call yourselves) who claim to hate the film do so because you WANT to, not because the film warrants it. You're the kind of people that Rorschach warned us about.
LONG.
LIVE.
WATCHMEN. -
First of all, I'm not a "fanboy" of Watchmen, but i've read it, and enjoyed it. I have to say, this movie completely blew me away. Sure, I made a HUGE mistake by getting the large soda, and going for a refill before the movie even started, but i digress... I thought it was incredible! The ending worked well, despite what all the diehards say. Also, Jackie Earl Haley was absolutely amazing! I remember sitting there, at the end, just before Manhattan disintegrates Rorshach, watching Haley scream in defiance at him....The sheer fury written on his face.... i literally sat there in awe of his performance.. i recall quietly muttering "wow"... not at the manner in which he was dispatched, but the strength of the performance of an incredibly talented actor. Maybe I'm hoping for a bit too much, and it is also very early in the movie season, but i think Jackie deserves a nomination for best supporting actor. A few things that bothered me though... completely rendering Manhattan in CGI the whole movie. I thought that his lips didnt exactly sync with the dialogue. Kindof took me out of the fantasy a bit. Also, i agree, the old age makeup on Carla Cugino could have been better, and Malin Ackerman was pretty annoying. One other thing bothered me.... the music.. I understand the placement and choices, in reference to all the quotes from the book...but many times the music detracted from the film. The disco music during the riots being the most glaring mistake. However, "Halleluja" during the sex scene inside Archie worked really well. Overall, i loved it. It is encouraging in this day and age that a major movie studio could put out a film like this. Serious props to Zack Snyder. He filmed the unfilmable, and made it work really well. There's my two cents, more like a dime at least, but you get the point!
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So it won't really be considered a failure no matter what some critics and mouthbreathers, idiots dumb enough to take their kids, high school girls and tools who thought 300 was kickass but aren't prepared to think will say. Last nights midnite screening alone did 5 million dollars. And since the reaction is so polarized already I think the word of mouth both positive and negative will give this film enough legs to stay #1 for two weeks. It will definitely make more money than 300 and DoD 2004. This will also be the breakout film for IMAX since this is the 1st one I can think of being release in the new era where you don't have to drive to a museum or an aquarium 20 miles away to see a film in IMAX now that all the chains are adding the screens now.
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Because its beautiful, interesting, exciting, and a mind fuck?
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Wow.
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are uniformly ridiculous. And Snyder and his team deserve far much more credit for the artistry they brought to the job than detractors are willing to give.
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...Not even remotely. This might be the new Blade Runner or Brazil. Hated by most, revered by a few, and develop cult status in the years to come, where everyone (i.e., fanboys and critics) will rave about how great it is and how overlooked it was. And the general population will still think its shit. Speed Racer was just a truly terribly, cheap, ugly lazy pile of shit. This is far too good to even compare. But it sure is a hard sell, and normal people are going to hate it.
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What the hell...? Great film, could have been terrible if previous adaptations had gone through.
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when it feels like a case of a combination of drawing blanks and de ja vu while watching it. it only reminded me of the genius of alan moore and the shortcomings of hollywood. any decently competent director could've done what snyder did; he's hasn't proven himself as impressively creative. as far as anyone should be concerned, he's good at following other people's story-boarded material and telling people: "ok, make that look like that."
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I can see this as the new Blade Runner. Heck, this movie was better than Blade Runner.
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Snyder got the characters mostly right, but forgot to put in the drama. you don't really get a sense of tension the that USA and USSR are about to go nuclear, so an underwhelming climax feels even worse. that said, still an interesting flick that never feels boring, despite the length.
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Mar 06, 2009 4:00:04 PM CST
There will be two camps of detractors for this flick...
by whinynegativebitch
...Firstly, the fans who will hate any adaptation of the work. Because lets face it, if Lord Of The Rings fans can tolerate and even love Jacksons versions (both less faithful and not as good as movies as Snyders flick) they are gonna hate whatever take that ISN'T the comic. And on the other hand, your average Paul Blart fan who would hate the comic too, if they could actually read. They'll be constantly questioning why all the fights and violence are being interrupted by people talking.
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Just to put two cents in against the faggotry of all you limp dicked fanboys who think Alan Moore invented comic books and Christopher Nolan invented movies based on them.
Christ in a sidecar.
You guys are played the fuck out. Congratulations. You are now living, breathing cartoons of yourselves.
The movie was stellar.
Squid or no squid. Knitpicky jackasses.
Like the idea of the threat of Dr. Manhattan's wrath and vigilant eye isn't easier for the uninitiated (read: 99% of the moviegoing public) to digest than a giant teleporting pussy monster from outer space.
I'm sure your mom will eat her mint condition slabbed copies in a fit of rage.
Spoiled brat cyberdicks who weren't even born when the goddamn book was published, ranting endlessly about how stuff sucks.
Go watch Batman & Robin again and tell me how much you hate Watchmen.
Jackasses. -
People are complaining because that is what fanboys do, they rage and rage and RAGE against anything that is not 100% what they envisioned in their wasted minds. They will SCREAM about a squid and declare the director a piece of shit for daring to actually make something of himself instead of just spewing hate. They are contempable trash.
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and a stand-alone graphic novel adaptation. the former can be visually imagined as infinitely as possible. the latter can only be done one way because it's all already imagined there on all the pages –– text and visuals –– and if it's not exact, it's just a cliff's notes. regardless, i do think that the movie is a good abridged version of the graphic novel, and it certainly works for people that haven't read, or will not read, it. but it's not an impressive feat of creativity; it's only a semi-impressive feat of technical mastery, which isn't without merit, but is less praise-worthy.
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...Like I said, they will hate any version of Watchmen that isn't the book. Its the regular folk who were walking out seemingly seething with anger like someone had robbed them after raping their kids that I found troublesome. It's like witnessing an old fashioned book burning. Especially when half of them laughed hysterically during the Pink Panther 2 trailer (I'm in Sydney).
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Just watched this with a friend & I really liked it, as did my friend. The first hours full to bursting but the second it just flops out there catching the wind, it needs the extra weight more story elements would give it, but what its crying out for is all the elements of the story that were filmed, because you know this from the first half being so so so so good! If anyone out there is not happy then wait, this film with the extra running time is going to put this in the same league as Godfather part1 & 2 and Dark Knight than it currently dose the extended cut of Empire Strikes Back, or any of the extended cuts of the original Star Wars.
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...From the added fight scenes (perhaps thematically and narratively WORSE than just leaving them out) its clear Snyder has more audio-visual acumen than most of his peers.
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I don't know if the movie's any good or not (seeing it tonight) I just love the word "faggotry"
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Mar 06, 2009 4:14:19 PM CST
The perfect Watchmen movie been made has already been made
by dapper swindler
It was called "Watchmen the Motion Comic" and it came out Tuesday. If you want a perfect mimicry of the source material as a film, there you go - can't get more precise than that. If you want a movie based on the source material, but may not be an exact imitation, then give this a chance.
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and I'm not even gay. It was just so big and beautiful and blue.
Also I would like to bang Akerman, aka the other Natalie Portman, at the same time as Natalie Portman. -
it's a given that fights will play out differently in live-action. i don't see how mc-g, or whoever these peers of his are –– because an auteur he is not –– couldn't have said: "Ok, copy this panel, but, fight coordinator, add more kicks and punches, please."
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It was ok..nicely shot..but overall left that meh feeling...
Never reading the comic book i really paid attention to story..was a good twist at the end..i should pick up the book...
I wish i had blue balls... -
.....nothing more to see here.
Like it or not....it is what it is. -
He's officially right up there with Raimi, Jackson, and Deltoro in my geek eyes. Visionary director indeed.
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Awesome film - absolutely blew me away. Was as gutted as anyone when I found out the squid was out of the picture but on reflection I honestly think it wouldn't of worked in the film I saw tonight. Yes they mangled my favourite line from the book and yes peripheral characters didn't get much of a look in (The Prison Shrink, new Frontiersman office etc)but don't think that makes for a bad adaptation - if anything it means I will keep on going back to the book. None of the cast were terrible in my opinion, fight scenes (especially Ozzy's)delivered and in general it was faithful to the spirit of the book. *SPOILERS* Dan's new line at the 'watchmen' meeting and Blake's reaction worked well and got a big laugh from the crowd I saw it with. So did - bizarrely - the chip fat incident though I think that was a measure of how much everyone was rooting for Rorschach (hats off to Jackie Earle Haley for managing THAT with a sack over his head for most of the film). JDM and Patrick Wilson both nailed their roles and I enjoyed the music choices just for the fact that they are dam good songs. To all the haterz - you won't see a better adaptation of the book until your children are playing the 4d total-immersion game on their Playstation VII's. Doesn't mean they should have tried adapting it in the first place but they have so deal with it. Don't let your hatred get in the way of a good film. On the downside - it will NEVER make TDK's numbers. Comments I heard on the way out included 'why was he blue' 'what the fuck was that' and 'at least 300 was just about killing'. Almost made me ashamed to be human. Not unlike reading the book then.
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"I love you mom." Best theme. Really got me. And I got all swelled up when Rorschach was going to bite the dust. No drama? My ass. I really fell for these characters.
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the first hour to hour and a half was great, but then the film just seemed like it started losing momentum. Overall I liked it, but being the tree lover I am, I was mostly disappointed to see Veidt's conservatory missing from the film. It was sort of there, but not at all in the same capacity as the book. I don't even think there were any plants in there.
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You know they made this movie for us, right? The guys and gals (let's face it, mostly guys) who come onto these talkbacks and bitch and moan and endlessly disect every aspect of every movie we see. We're a pretty intimidating audience to make a movie for, especially when it's a property held in such high regard. When you cater to the fanboys so much, you become a slave to the material.
It seemed like a noble idea that Snyder had. To adapt the novel so lovingly, right down to recreating specific frames, but was it the RIGHT idea? The book was never meant to be used as storyboards for a future movie, and it shows. So, when you start complaining about the lack of depth and heart in the movie remember, we asked for it. We wouldn't have let WB get away with all of the massive changes they (apparently) had planned, so Snyder convinced them to go the other way. Make a movie no fanboy could POSSIBLY complain about, because it's EXACTLY the book. Maybe the sans-squid ending was a fair compromise in this context? Maybe?
There was a review on here a few days ago (Fatboy?) that probably had the best analogy: The one about his dad spending tons of money on a brand new CD sound system, and then refusing to let anyone play CD's on it.
He was so afriad of breaking it that he never really used it properly.
Just be happy it got made at all, and that it was as dark and brooding as it should have been. No matter what you may think of the film in the end, it's a victory for the fans. -
......kick your fucken ASS! I want you off the FUCKIN' set you prick! NO don't just be sorry! THINK for one fuckin second. The......THE FUCK. ARE. YOU. DOING???!!!!! Are you professional or not?! Do I fuckin' walk around and rip tha... no SHUT THE FUCK UP BRUCE-- do I wa... NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!! DONT SHUT ME UP. Am I gonna walk around and rip your fuckin lights down in the middle of a scene? Than why the FUCK are you walking right through all DA DA DA DA like this in the background? What the FUCK is it with you? WHATDONCHUFUCKINUNNERSTANNND?! ! You got any fuckin idear about-- HEY ITS FUCKIN' DISTRACTING having somebody walking in behind Bryce in the middle of the fucking scene. Gimme a FUCKIN ANSWER!!! What dont you get about it!?! AAAAOOOOOOOOH!!!! GOOOOOOD for you. And how was it? I hope it was fucking good because its useless now isnt it? FUCK sake man you're amateur. McG you got something to say to this prick? Well somebody should be fuckin watching him and keeping an eye on him. This is the 2nd time he doesnt give a FUCK!!!!! About what is going on behind the camera. Alright? I'm trying to fucking do a scene here and I'm going "Why the fuck is Shane walking in there? What is he doing there?" You understand my mind is not in the scene if you're doing that. STAY OFF THE FUCKIN' SET MAN. Fuck sake. Alright lets go again. No lets not take a fuckin minute LETS GO AGAIN!!! And lets not have you fucking walking in . Can I have Tom to put this on please? You're unbelievable man. You're unfuckinbelievable. Number of times you're strolling and fucking around in the background. I never had a DP behave like this. UHHHH you dont fucking understand what its like working with actors. Thats what that is. THATS WHAT THAT IS MAN I'm tellin you. I'M NOT ASKING, I'M TELLING YOU. You wouldn't have done that otherwise..... I'm gonna FUCKING kick your FUCKIN ASS IF YOU DONT SHUT UP FOR A SECOND!!! Alright? I'm gonna, you want me to go trash your lights? You want me to FUCKING TRASH EM? Then why are you trashing my scene? You ARE trashing my scene!!! You do it one more fucking time and I ain't walking on this set if you're still hired. I'm fucking serious, you're a nice guy, YOU'RE A NICE GUY.....but that dont fucking cut it when you bullshit and fuckin around like this on set. Yeah you might get it but he doesnt fucking get it. You might. HE. DOES. NOT. GET IT. No I dont need any fuckin walking. HE NEEDS TO STOP WALKIN!! I ain't the one walkin. Get Tom and put this back on. Lets go again. Seriously man, YOU AND ME-- WE'RE FUCKING DONE PROFESSIONALLY. Fuckin ass.
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How many people want to read another million fucking useless words reviewing some half-ass film about phony superheros, or read the blessed Balerant?
Let's keep being PROFESSIONALS, people
WHAT DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND? -
How come AICN has been so silent about this movie?
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drama. the fate of "superheroes" aside, did you ever feel like the nukes where about to fly? did you see why a madman would want to kill millions to save billions?
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Most of the music cues were total shit. Bob Dylan, yes. Hendrix, no. Ride Of The Valkryes, yes. Leonard Cohen, BIG no.
And, I never thought I'd say this, but a butt-naked Malin Akerman really had no place in the movie. On my face, maybe, but not in the movie. -
I wrote a review for it, but I've also written my thoughts on the ending which I would post but it is major spoilage so if you guys would prefer me not to then I won't.
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Right there with you! Hate the term Graphic novel! For all the reasons I can't be bothered going into.
Re Watchmen going to see it on Sunday (shift pattern permiting)Been reading some rotten tomato reviews and to be honest it scares me how many people don't seem to 'get it'. This either doesn't bode well as an adaption or it means the world needs some genuinely happy movies for a change. -
THEY HATE THAT THE FILM IS GETTING SO MUCH ATTENTION. THAT BURNS SOME PEOPLE UP AND THEY CAN'T STAND TO SEE ANYONE HAPPY, ESPECIALLY THE GEEKS AT TALKBACK. THERE'S A LOT OF RESENTMENT THAT GOES ON IN TALKBACK, JEALOUSLY, HATRED TOWARDS FAT PEOPLE GETTING ATTENTION AND BEING RICH. THAT'S WHAT ALL THIS IS ABOUT. SO INCONCLUSION, DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE HERE THAT THEY HATE WAYCHMEN. THEY HATE THE FACT THAT YOU LOVE IT.
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Orionsangels - [EDITBUTTONFAIL]
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I went to a Midnight IMAX show to see the Theatrical Cut (156 minutes) and felt that its fatal flaw was that it was too short and lacked the back story of the secondary characters (guys at the New Frontiersman, guys at the newsstand, the lesbian cabbie, the physiatrist, etc.) to give it the emotional weight that should have paid off during the climax of the film. Everything else was, in my opinion, spot on. I saw a film based off of a so-called “un-filmable” graphic novel, work…well, almost worked. From a financial standpoint, I won’t question why the director, Zack Snyder and the studio would opt for the animated direct-to-DVD release of “Tales of the Black Freighter”, the Director’s Cut (190 minutes) as well as the “Complete or Ultimate” Cut (205 minutes) DVD and Blu-ray releases later this year (the length of the Theatrical Cut maximizes the number of daily showings, for example). But in doing so, I think they have cheated all fans with this rather incomplete Theatrical Cut.
Do I think Snyder created a masterpiece? Yes, but it’s just not the Theatrical Cut. That masterpiece is probably “his” Director’s Cut. And now because of a studio decision, we fans will have to pay twice just to see it once.
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is the penis longer or thicker?
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Weapons of MASS destruction? What does that mean, anyway? It´s a mind-fucking fear mongering expression Bush invented to manipulate the retarded US of A.
The Cold War presented a "real" threat of total anhiliation not a rethorical gimmick.
I am glad to see that A. DuPont made a similar point.
But why do I even give a shit?
Who is the greater moron? The moron that posts or the moron that answers? -
I overheard 10 conversations about the Savage Blue Donger on the way out of the theater. I think that will be its legacy.
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Mar 06, 2009 5:27:33 PM CST
screw character, why don't we just hack him in the head?
by szechuan_fire
I honestly felt pretty pissed off by the level of violence, sex, profanity et al. I'm a huge fan of the graphic novel and to me the extra content did nothing but lower the emotional impact of the moments of violence, sex, etc. that were intrinsically needed to express the characters well. For example, the Comedian shooting the pregnant woman in Vietnam had a much lower emotional impact simply because there was already so much brutality and gore etc., ditto with the dead girl scene. Those were important scenes but the emotion was lost in the sea of cathartic violence. Why the cleaver to the head 10 times? It was so, so much more intelligently and maturely handled in the book. I don't mean to be a prude, but if they were so intent on being true to the novel, lifting dialog and direct panel copying, having every scene drip with authenticity, you'd think that they wouldn't so blatantly sensationalize the violence that the book takes so seriously and have a random 3 minute soft core scene, which was like 2 or three panels in the book and wasn't graphic by any stretch of the imagination. I just can't think of anything that it added and if Zack understood what the core of the novel, and the need for delicacy when dealing with characters he wouldn't have needed to resort to what I frankly consider to be rather immature spectacle, designed to shock for the sake of the "whoa, dude" and nervous laughter and not because it's for the purpose of establishing character and creating a sense of affectation with the audience.
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I had to go back to the graphic novel after I watched the film earlier this afternoon, to confirm the book's variances. And I was pleasantly surprised at how both the book and the film support each other. Many are obviously dissappointed that the film isn't as pretentious as the graphic material it is made from, but I found it a very intelligent distillation and really enjoyed it. I hadn't read the graphic novel since around '86 or '87; though I remember it fondly. And I haven't been out of the movie for more than a couple of hours and already remember it fondly.
So, hopefully, the public (and this includes the fanboy culture) will enjoy it enough to make it profitable for those who paid to make it, and more mature works on comics will make it to the screen, as opposed to shit like Ghost Rider. -
The Big Blue Donger need food.
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The part the touched me the most when I read the book was the News stand guy and the black kid hugging before the explosion. I'm really glad they kept that in the movie. I look forward to any scenes involving those two in the extended cut. I think lacking the side characters hurts the film a bit, but overall it was a great experience. Also, for fucks sake, was it not great to have coherrant, honest to goodness fight scenes in a movie again?!
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i thank the lord for this movie, I loved it, i don't care what people say, it was great. Also, to Mr. Snyder, I know you put your reputation on the line to get this movie to be the way it is.
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Dong.
What's your first name?
Long.
What's your middle name?
Blue. -
my little brother paid a buck to see your underwear.
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Oto-mo-biiile?
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Bc the way Rorsach took care of him in the book had already been done in the movie SAW.
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I thought you my new - new-style American girlfriend.
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Mar 06, 2009 5:51:00 PM CST
Saw it. It's great, despite Snyder's indulgent direction.
by knuckleduster
The one thing that annoyed me was Snyder's constant need to be "badass". His use of slow-mo makes John Woo look like a model of restraint. And he seems to have a thing for elaborate and cheesy sex scenes. That said, I have to congratulate him on a job well done. The new angle for the ending works perfectly. I think even Moore might be impressed with that one. Still can't believe this movie exists. A Watchmen movie. A really good Watchmen movie.
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If anything , this is an extended teaser for the full extended directors cut. The cuts were obvious too, it seriously threw off the pacing snyder should have gone the kill bill route, but warners would never go for it. I saw enough great stuff that I can't wait for the whole thing. Warners should definitely release the full cut into theaters
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Got my ticket for the *:30 showing here. I want this to kick ass.
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Bra-fucking-vo. Can't wait to see it again.
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have been awesome!
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I only wanted more of it. the squid would have been nice. I loved the comedian the acting was spot on. Rorschach was GENIUS. I want a whole Rorschach prequel movie. how much better can it get when you are killing evil midgets.
they did not shy away from hardcore violence and softcore sex.
Im a big fan of the book. Have been for years I do not know why people are talking bad about this tarnished gem. lead paint?
this is my new christmas movie replacing "it's a wonderful life" -
this movie however was fucking amazing.
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AAAAOOOOOOOOH!!!! GOOOOOOD for you. And how was it? I hope it was fucking good because its useless now isnt it? FUCK sake man you're amateur. Manhattan, you got something to say to this prick? Well somebody should be fuckin watching him and keeping an eye on him. This is the 2nd time - Veidt doesnt give a FUCK!!!!! About what is going on behind the camera. Alright? I'm trying to fucking do prevent an apocalypse here and I'm going "Why the fuck is Rorschach walking in there? What is he doing there?" You understand my mind is not in the scene if you're doing that. STAY OFF THE FUCKIN' SET RORSCACH! Fuck sake. Alright lets go again. No lets not take a fuckin minute LETS GO AGAIN!!! And lets not have you fucking walking in . Can I have Manhattan to reset this please? You're unbelievable man. You're unfuckinbelievable. Number of times you're strolling and fucking around in the background. I never had a psychotic ally behave like this. UHHHH you dont fucking understand what its like working with superheroes. Thats what that is. THATS WHAT THAT IS MAN! I'm tellin you! I'M NOT ASKING, I'M TELLING YOU! You wouldn't have done that otherwise..... I'm gonna FUCKING kick your FUCKIN ASS IF YOU DONT SHUT UP FOR A SECOND!!! Alright?
*Nite Owl glances down, notices the bulge in his crotch*
Seriously, Veidt, you and I are done professionally. Laurie, let's go fuck to Hallelujah again. -
At least the best line of the book made it into the movie.
Now, if only Snyder hadn't telegraphed the villain's identity right from the start of the movie... -
It's been said time and time again, but I just can't get over how polarized these reviews are. When you go on RT and read one review calling it a masterpiece and the next calling it a complete disaster, I have to admit it makes me even more excited to see it in about 5 hours from now. I love movies that draw two disparate, yet passionate responses. I will say this though, it seems like allot of these negative reviews on RT were written by some real pretentious pussies.
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First post, and I shot my load too soon! Anyways, the S.Q.U.I.D.--it's on a monitor under the screens showing the nuclear destruction.
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Love book. LOVE motion comic. For some reason, had hard time connecting with movie. Maybe TOO close to book. Don't know. Must remember to investigate further.
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It was done at the end of Mad Max. A cleaver to the head was very visceral, VERY Rorschach, and not at all similar to those two previous "saw your way out" endings.
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Loved the fact that Rorschach took off the mask in the end. It was a nice little touch for him to die without his face. HOWEVER, Night Owl screaming NOOOO was a bit too much. It took away from the moment.
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i was entirely loving this movie through (except for Oz and Silk Spectre) and then the ending kind of screwed it for me. seeing the city destroyed wasn't as breathtaking as seeing bloody bodies crowding the streets. and then blaming it all on Dr. Manhattan with a speech by Nixon? there was a grander meaning with nite owl just accepting it all and consoling silk with lust. oz questioning whether his actions were right to manhattan.
oz wasn't the grand politician envisioned in the book. especially the scene where he shows his skills on live tv, it shows his perfectness and love by the people, almost like a Kennedy. in the movie, everybody was beneath him, a money grubbing business man that is easily hated within a second of meeting him. and my worries about malin were true, she's typecasted as a bimbo because that's what she does well. i felt nothing for her here, she was prolly the only candidate that would show skin.
most of it's great though, i'll just wait for the full cut to give another chance. -
LOOK ON MY WORKS, YE MIGHTY, AND DESPAIR!!!!!
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It's calamari crazy!
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It was probably because you'd read the comic and knew. My girlfriend who hasn't read it was really surprised.
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Yes, quite thoroughly
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A giant, one tentacled blue squid that gave teenage girls tittering giggle fits.
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The whole theater laughed at that part.
Great movie, BTW. I couldn't remember if the squid in the book was just in NYC or in all the major cities. I think the film ending where multiple cities were targeted makes more sense in trying to capture a threat to the planet and not just to a single nation. -
Stupdid 90´s, Burton´s at least had an artistic approach, Nolan´s TDK is like "Die Hard 4 1/2". Yeah, it´s like Detective Comics and recently they suck. But he, if your into this "never equals better"-trend, good for you. Remake is coming up in let´s say 10 years from now.
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Mar 06, 2009 7:43:00 PM CST
Does anybody care what I have to say at this point?
by the reluctant austinite
Seriously. Anybody reading? Anybody at all? I just got home from seeing "Watchmen" and my brain is buzzing with everything I just took in. I'll be brief! I was going to write a review and send it to Harry, but after reading Alexndria DuPont's review I thought, "There's no way in HELL anybody cares what I think at this point." So my well thought out and organized thesis on "Watchmen" will only ever exist in another timeline where I thought more highly of myself. Look, I read the book in the early 90s and thought it was good. I've long since forgotten all the details, so in many ways this felt new to me and I didn't notice the changes much. Personally, I was blown away. This ambitious and intellectual effort shows much growth and maturity on the part of Zack Snyder, whose "Dawn of the Dead" I mildly enjoyed and "300" I thought was VASTLY over-rated and kind of dumb. I found "Watchmen" visually stunning, viserally exciting and intellectually stimulatiing. I connected with the characters and the actors, but everyone else has already talked about who was great and who was only servicible. They're all right. Sure, there are some minor nitpicks with make-up. Big deal. The big picture, however, is that "Watchmen" is better than I ever expected and I want to see it again.
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I tried masturbating thinking of it this morning but it didn't get me turned on though.On a side note, Nite Owl made the movie. I actually think his performance was hella great.needed more shots of blue dong though.
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Nope, scnjedi. I went with a person who has never read comic books and had never heard of Watchmen before the commercials started playing on TV. Concerning the villain, she said, "He looked like a bad guy right from the start."
Besides being miscast, Snyder made Ozy unlikeable, and I never got that impression of Ozy from the original book. Ozy should be loved by everyone (except Rorschach, who hates him for selling out). Adrian was supposed to be the smartest, yet humble and charming, man in the world. Snyder just made him a two-dimensional know-it-all prick.
That said, I never thought the day would come when this story would actually be turned into a film. This wasn't a perfect adaptation, but it's the best one we'll ever see. That's good enough. -
Didn't like Watchmen, sorry...
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http://my.spill.com/video/watchmen-trouble-on-the-set
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I really have no idea what to make of it. I will just say this tho - NO movie deserves to go for 3 hours! and this one could certainly have been 1 hour shorter. Superheros' gone bad. Could have really been a better film in all honesty
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You sound like a dumbass too. You're be better off seeing Paul Blart Mall Cop again.
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His plan won't work. Be he god or man, Dr. Manhattan is an American. Whatever Nixon says, some governments will blame America for the attacks. Be it for setting up Manhattan's origin, pushing him too hard in Vietnam or using him as a deterrent to the USSR. Both directly and indirectly, it's the American government's fault. How does that end war on Earth?
Secondly, so what if someone finds out Veidt did it? So he is exposed, does that really change anything? He still has the S.Q.U.I.D., so all he has to do is just say "play nice, or I'll do it again". That isn't uniting people, that's suppressing them.
At least in the book, his plot was plausable. I mean, granted, it's the Star Trek view of how to achieve peace (scale everything up so we think of ourselves as Earthlings first instead of things like Americans and Soviets), but it still takes into account how petty and vindictive humans are. Plus, there is actually a real danger if he is found out. -
I saw people walk out of Reservoir Dogs every time I saw it. And I worked at the theater than ran it. Does that make it a bad film? NO. SHUT UP. Watchmen was a great, gloriously fucked up movie. It was weird, ambitious, almost as faithful to the comic as it could be, all the performances were fine, it was all you could hope for. My only problems were that a) you can tell there are scenes left out that are going to be on the DVD. This is actually a good thing. The DVD version is going to be even weirder and more fucked up. b) no carnage of millions of dead people everywhere. I thought that would've been the money shot. I don't need the squid, but I do need to see the devastation that Veidt caused. Those bodies bleeding dead everywhere really drive it home in the book. Again, maybe it'll be on the DVD. c) No "Nothing ever ends." Don't know why this was left out. Again, the DVD.
d) aw, fuck it. It really looked like everything missing will be on the DVD.
I liked what they did with Dreiberg at the end...his witnessing Rorshach's demise, his pummeling of Veidt and Veidt taking it. It was an awesome, bizarre flick. I think if Alan Moore hadn't written the basis, he'd think it was great. -
It was fantastic. I don't understand any of the hate being tossed at this at all. I even got misty for Rorschach.
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i generally hate seeing movies more than once, and it seems like a lot of stuff was cut. plus, i'm really broke right now, so maybe i'll just wait.
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Just saw it. BLEW ME AWAY. Will see it again and maybe several times. Rorschach RULES!! The scenes with Nixon I could've done without. Hard to get past that Jughead nose of his, not to mention the campy nature of those scenes. Otherwise, A+.
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What kind of gay fanboys are you that like this film? First you get all excited like giggling schoolgirls over the movie "300" which features big, sweaty, muscular men half naked wearing speedos, and now you fanboys get all excited over a movie that features full frontal male nudity!!!!!! YOU'RE SO FREAKING GAY!!! If you're gay then just come out and admit it! Seriously, how can any straight guy watch this stuff. At least "Street Fighter" had that hot ass Kristen Kruenyk or whatever the hell her name is.
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The movie was so bad, that alot of people (non fanboys) actually walked out! And this was in Burbank. Hahahaaha! Now that was funny.
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Mar 06, 2009 8:52:25 PM CST
Dr. Manhattan goes to Antarctica and NO SHRINKAGE?!?!
by tylerdurden3395
FTW? Seriously though: Never read the comic book and I thought it was ambitious to a fault. Snyder tried to spin one too many plates, but any movie that features superhero sex is ok by me. I liked Doc Blueballs. I mean if you can be omnipotent, you might as well bang Malin Akerman in every hole at the same time; but that's just me. Rorschach owned the flick for me though. Kelly Leak is one bad ass motherfucker!
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by the end there were a couple things I couldn't excuse. (I haven't read through the talkback I'm just putting my uncontaminated thoughts here first.) I knew pretty early on that I didn't like Malin Akerman. I'm sure she's a nice person but she didn't have enough pizzazz for me. And why was her costume so messed up? It kept bunching. Besides that I also had a problem with the casting of Ozymandias. I thought Matthew Goode was a weird choice when they announced it because for once I actually read something that was being turned into a movie so I knew what the character was like. However because I like him in 'Match Point' and thought he was great in 'The Lookout' I thought maybe he could pull it off. But by the end of this I was thinking they should have picked someone else. I almost wondered what would have happened if Patrick Wilson, who I admit I looooooove, and he traded roles. But Patrick was still great as Nite Owl and Jackie Earle Haley was fantastic as Rorschach but they both seemed to overdue it in that last scene. But for most of the movie I was thinking it was a 10/10 so even with those problems, I'm only knocking it back to a 9/10. It was just soooooooo close to being perfect. And someone still needs to explain to me why Billy Crudup had on underpants some of the time. I only read it once. Was it like that in the novel or was that a censor thing?
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..who's love's super hero movies, her favorite being Superman 2, but had never read Watchmen: She had no problem following it, and although she didn't like the gore, enjoyed the story. her nit picks are: constant heel changes on Silk (stillettos landing on the prison roof but flats for the fight scene), what's the blue cat about? ..and where'd Laurie get the gun?
For me, the ending gave new weight and reason for Doc's final departure but a faked alien invasion would still have been fine with me. Otherwise I really enjoyed it. -
Freakin' rocked! I have the TiVO ready for that bitch! Where's the WB execs? Sign that guy!
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He drives this movie the same way Heath Ledger drove the Dark Knight.
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How some of the critics who hate Watchmen loved the curious case of benjamin button.
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Jackie Earle Haley,is class in dis film my girlfriend hated the movie but loved Rorschach he steals the movie
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"It was called " the Architects of Fear" Starring Robert Culp as a volunteer who agreed to be turned into a "space alien" by aa cadre of scientists to give mankind a common enemy so that they would stop fighting amongst themselves"
God, I was going nuts trying to remember that--thanks so much. No wonder I was never so blown away by the idea of the original ending to Watchmen. Nothing new, despite the endless mythos and squid-whine here. -
God, I suck.
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In the book, Doctor Manhattan starts off wearing clothing. But as he loses touch with his humanity over time, he starts wearing less and less as he no longer cares if he "fits in" with our society.
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Very layered, complex and not what I was expecting, but really good.
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I thought the exact same thing about Docs little attempt at a menage au Tois..or would that be menage au quatre? Anyway i fucking loved the movie (warts n all) and heres my review if anyones interested
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/rorschachsrants/news/?a=6512 -
Just got back from seeing this. Really, really liked it. Nite Owl, Rorschach, Comedian and Manhattan--whose penis really wasn't all that distracting, btw--were absolutely perfect. Ozy and Laurie were both good enough, though I didn't really get into the scenes between Laurie and her mom. I'm really glad that Snyder chose to tell this in a non-linear fashion, just like the comics. He also managed to sneak in some meta-commentary from the GN, which I liked. As others have mentioned, some scenes do feel rushed, and I definitely think the movie will benefit quite a lot from the extended version containing more screen-time from the side characters. Mores scenes with the newsstand guy in particular would, I think, help make the reality of imminent nuclear holocaust a little more palpable than it was in this cut. While I missed the squid, I didn't mind the ending, and I loved, Loved, LOVED Rorschach's last scene (along with the very last scene in the movie). Really, this was a very eccentric film, very oddball, but in a good way, I think.
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hes like the kurt cobain of superheroes. fuck society!
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I love the Night Owl. He's my favorite. I also love pretty much all the other characters and everything else in the film, but Night Owl, excuse me, Night Owl 2 is my absolute favorite.
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It wasnt the best movie I've ever seen. But it was as if the comic came alive infront of me. It wasn't perfect but I was entertained from start to finish. an achievement of artistic film making. if the dread of doomsday was played up more and the story line with pyramid was focused on more i think poeple who hadnt read the comics would have been impacted by the narative a lot more. for me, shortest 3 hours of my life.
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I think that Ozy was perfect. I believed him. I believed he was the smartest man alive. And... for the record... who was always the bad guys in superhero stories? the tough guy? no, the smart guy.
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Now has a movie worthy of having the same tittle. This was an excellent adaptation to the graphic Novel. Period.
Can u imagine if the gave it the pussyed up treatment and made it PG-13 - not taking place in the 80's and be hardcore post-9-11 sensitive? It would have been mediocre. Could have done w/ out seeing the blue dong over and over tho. And Jackie's Rorschach is right up there W/ Heath's Joker!!! -
It doesn't take a visionary to rip shots straight from a comic book. Anyone could set up a scene exactly from the comic book and say "action". Not sure how creative that is. I like the fact that Snyder got the look and feel right, but it would have been possible to do those things without framing every scene off the book. While watching it I couldn't help but thinking sometimes, "I could just be reading the comic book and get the same experience."
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I must be losing my geekness, because I was disappointed in the film. The movie had...had good photography. Um.....yeahhhhh. It's probably going to have a big opening then sink.
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So many conflicting feelings... I'm not quite sure I "liked" it, but I can't deny that I was exhilarated throughout. Hurm... Must investigate further. Only time will tell.
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Never be surprised by the stupidity of families that think R-rated movies are perfect family fare for young kids.
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Movie, A-.
Ending, B-.
Really needing to see that director's cut to make my final decision. -
Rorschach and the Comedian were spot on. Nite Owl (acting-wise) was really good as well. Action and most costumes were "Snyder-ized", but worth only a minor complaint. Snyder and co. obviously love the source material and made many scenes perfectly, and many grace notes that were almost un-noticeable (Capt. Metropolis and Hooded Justice palling around in their only two shots in the background, for instance). Some complaints about the songs are spot-on (Ride of the Valkyries & Sounds of Silence), but complaints about All Along the Watchtower are spurious as lyrics from that song formed the title for the tenth issue of the series (and were the end quote after you see Rorschach and Nite Owl approaching Karnak). Overall, a very good adaptation that I maybe could not enjoy as much as I spent quite a bit of time comparing it with my memories of my recent re-read of the source material. Will definitely pick up the uber-extended edition when it hits Blu-ray later this year.
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Was that I don't recall Doc Manhattan saying "Rorshach..." with that tinge of sadness, almost pleading with Rorshach to stop begging him to end it... I missed that in the film. I got that Manhattan was sort of feeling that way based on the facial expressions he had (he was shot all in facial closeup while Rorshach bounced around CUs and medium shots), but I don't know if non-readers of the novel will pick up on the fact that the Doc didn't really want to do him in.
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Zack Snyder may or may not be, but he's done nothing to prove that he is. He directed one remake and two shot-for-shot from the comicbook adaptations. So don't say he's the next Kubrick or Ridley Scott, because he's not.
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Anyone who read the comic and then sees this movie can't really disagree with that statement. I was so excited to see this movie that I was sure I wouldn't enjoy it. I read the comic when it first came out and many times since then. So I went to my brand new IMax with a flask of great scotch and sat completely blown away by how great this movie was. I was so happy and I even raised my flask and toasted the comedian when he drank from his. Then it happened, the horrid, typical, cop-out, bullshit ending. Did Snyder make this ending just to piss us off or continue to confirm to Moore that nobody in Hollywood is capable of doing anything other than turning his brilliant work into average shit? My god what the hell was Hayter thinking and how could Snyder have filmed it? Why didn't Snyder change the ending of 300 so that instead of one last great act of defiance, Leonidas gets down on his knees and sucks Xerxes cock?
Rorschach Journal
March 6, 2009
Zack Snyder fucks Alan Moore and all watchmen fans. When he finally asks for forgiveness for what he has done, I will whisper no. -
I'm seeing a few off-site critics complaining about the "horribly cheesy" sex scene between Laurie and Dan. Do they not understand that it was intentionally cheesy? I would have thought that the musical choice and the orgasmic fire spurt would have been a dead give away. Like it's source material, Watchmen the movie includes a fair bit of meta-commentary. This scene was one of the most obvious, I thought. It's one thing to dislike it, but to dislike it for being cheesy is to completely miss the point.
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pay attention to the movie instead of just complaining about the differences. as has been explained in another talk back, multiple cities on earth were blown up, not just new york. adrian set it up to look like jon went ape shit on the planet and is forcing world peace. it's not fucking hard to get. as long as people think jon is around, there will be peace, because they do not want to anger this very real, god like deity. veidt is basically tricking the world into thinking jon is babysitting, so no superpower on earth will launch nukes out of fear of jon's wrath. do you get it now, retard?
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I have to agree with everyone who is saying that they are the best ever. That was a really impressive way to start off a movie.
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Gloriously fucked up is the best description i've heard for this film. I think people on this site creaming over this film is akin to everyone here hating X3. not the general consensus of the actual public. Hey, I enjoyed it, but this rediculous notion that it's better than dark knight is like a secret one night stand. turn the lights on and take a picture and you'll see she's not really all that fucking fantastic
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..are the ones who don't "get" todays music and nothing is as ever good as it was back in the fifties.
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I thought people were walking out at about the two hour mark, but I believe they were actually just relieving themselves. Me, I fuckin' held it (although I was dancing in my seat for the about the last hour). Right now this movie and Coraline are the best '09 has had to offer at the cineplexes. The only real gripe was the ending.
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Mar 06, 2009 10:10:53 PM CST
Is it too early to be talking about best supporting actor Oscars
by soylentmean
Jackie Earle Haley gets my vote right now. Holy shit what a performance! What is he, like five foot two? Yet he not only pulls off bad ass in this movie he is the new epitome of crime fighting bad ass!
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Christopher Nolan...take notice.
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There's so much going on in the movie (and the director's cut promises more) that I'd say it's near impossible to dissect upon its initial viewing. I plan on seeing it a couple more times in theaters and I should just go ahead and pre-order the DVD/Blu-Ray (if one can do that). I'm not sure what the naysayers were expecting but this is an exceptional entertainment and the most bang for your buck you're likely to get in '09.
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So is it too faithful or not faithful enough? You guys can't seem to agree. Personally I liked it a lot and I can't see it working out much better than it did. It's not perfect, but honestly is there anyone in Hollywood that could've made it less faithful but better or more faithful but better? I also didn't realize Malin Ackerman had such a great body since she was uglied-up in that piece of shit Heartbreak Kid. Her acting wasn't as nuanced as Rory or Nite Owl but I don't think her character had that much of a personality in the first place. My commendations to Zach Snyder for his dedication to us geeks, this movie could not have been called Watchmen if it was made for the mainstream. I forgive you for the slow-mo. More fantastical action was needed to keep the film from dragging anyways.
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Slow motion is only distracting when it has elongated audio accompanying it. Especially vocalization. Nobody has a dragged out "Nooooooooooo" in this film. The slo-mo in this movie merely emphasizes the brutality onscreen. Who among you is going to argue with emphasized brutality?
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too much schlong
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Took the wifey to see the movie and she HATED it. I on the other hand Loved it. Our conversation driving home almost became violent as we argued the merits of the movie. I'm not sure the staying power of this movie with your average movie goer, but I think it was worth it! (just wished they would have spent a little more on the make up when they aged the characters!)
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While I'm here I will say this: TDK was a much better FILM than Watchmen, but not a better comic book movie. As great as Nolan's batfilms are, they tone down that Batman is the person and Wayne the alter ego. They also don't make a big enough show of his detective skills and combat prowess (Damn bat-armor). That doesn't make TDK unworthy of all of it's praise, but the realism ruins the comic-bookyness for me. They are both great movies but are coming from different directions.
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Watchmen is too dense in story & characters for just 1 film. I thought it was a great movie...just not a great Watchmen movie.
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Loved it.
I want to bang the Silk Spectre.
I got goose bumps when the Doc teleported to Mars.
Watchmen > The Dark Night -
Mar 06, 2009 10:26:15 PM CST
Of the seven movies releasing in March that I want to see...
by soylentmean
Watchmen will most likely be the best.
Next week we have The Last House On the Left (remake) and Miss March.
The week after that there's I Love You, Man (still not sure if I'm gonna see that in theaters, but I probably will) and Knowing (with its highly suspect PG-13 and the terrifying notion of Nicholas Cage asking why something, anything was burned) and
on 3/27 we get Monsters vs. Aliens and The Haunting in Connecticut (which has already earned my ticket on the basis of it's creepy ass trailers).
Of all of those movies I only really have high expectations for The Haunting in Connecticut. Yet I seriously doubt it'll hold a candle to the overwhelming (and bladder torturing) spectacle of Watchmen. -
Good, certainly the best adaptation of Moore's work, and stylish as all hell, but for me the plot/characters just didn't hold up, too much packed into too little time.
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I think the ending worked. Very well, in fact. In the context of the film, it was good, and sold the point. To be honest, I think that everyone complaining about the ending is too stuck on the comic. It was the same fucking thing, only even more horrific in the reality aspect of it. I mean, THAT MANY PEOPLE? Compared to the GN? Fuck that noise, I'd rather live in the GN world. And that's a DEFINITE compliment to the film. Good show, Mr. Snyder. Good show, indeed.
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BUT the thing is, it does not really work as a traditional movie. I feel that the majority of people who like this will like it out of appreciation of the comic. But on the other hand, the same group of people will dislike it because of the changes. I appreciate the mov ie but i hate what they've done to the ending, i don't care that the squid isn't there, to me its the fact that we don't see the piles of bodies, the movie lost its balls at that point, think about it, we have seen large scale destruction of cities in many popcorn pg13 movies, we have been de-censored to it, we needed more to get that emotional impact. Not to mention that the new ending doesn't work as well, considering Manhattan is made and used by America, other countries would most likely be bitter. So far ive only seen the movie once, and i like the movie minus the ending, now i just need to watch it more to decide whether or not the ending ruins it for me. But of course none of this should really matter until we see the directors cut.
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Some guy named Tom Charity (really that's his name) seems more than a little irked at the faithfulness of the film. Kinda weird gripe.
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You know people are going to want that mask, but how will people see? I'm very interested in that Halloween costume...
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I gotta say I dug the hell out of the movie and wished it was 8 hours longer. The end did feel a little rushed and didn't quite deliver the goods, but I give the movie on a whole two thumbs up. Still can't stop thinking about it. Gonna read the graphic novel now.
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I almost bought it at Best Buy today after seeing the movie, but I've heard it's about five hours long. It sure as shit doesn't take five hours to read the book!
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They really made it from the pov of Dr. Manhattan, and made you think about it in a detached way. It's a different, but equally valid choice.
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Apples and fucken Oranges. Come on...!
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Just saw it and I was plesantly surprised. However, I think DK was a better movie. The acting in Watchmen was stiff in a few areas, and I agree with those who say that they didn't seem invested with the characters. I can't really say the same about TDK. The acting was far superior and I cared more for the characters. I loved WM, but I'm a fanboy purist and I have a feeling that the majority of "sheeple" who go and see it will have it go right over their heads. Unfortunately I see a shelflife for WM at a couple of weeks, with the majority of it's profits coming from overseas and DVD sales. And I really have to disagree with all the talk going around about Dr. Manhattan's dick. Honestly, I wouldn't have even noticed it if it hadn't been for some of these "critics" who seem preoccupied with male genitalia. It was on the screen for maybe 20 seconds total and that's all these seemed to notice. The biggest dicks are these morons that can't seem to get over seeing a blue CGI member.
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Two movies that were fantastic entertainments in their own rights, they don't need to be overtly compared to one another. Two separate entities existing in the same known universe.
Sometimes I wonder whether or not people on this site actually love movies, or if they merely take them for granted.
Bunch of dour, no fun having fucktards. -
This is a waste of breathe. I enjoyed the movie, but I think that since I have read the comic 4 or 5 times, the movie lost something to me. Thats not a bad thing, its just, I knew what was coming next and the element of surprise was gone. The "holy Fuck that was awesome" was not there for me like it could have been if I was not so familiar with the story. I think O'l Zack did the best job anyone could have done with this movie. Honestly, this could have been a 3.5 hour picture. Lets see the directors cut before we shred him. To be honest, I think the film is groundbreaking, and he has opened a new door in filmaking. Much like Scott, Tarantino, Jackson, Fincher and Del Torro have throughout the last 30 years.
I had no problem with Akermans performance, was it Moonstruck, no, but have you read her in the comic? She's a nitwit. Its a shame that people keep saying how dense it was. True, it was alot to take in, but we have been so condition to a narrow plot line, it was fun to challenge yourself to keep up.
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This is a waste of breathe. I enjoyed the movie, but I think that since I have read the comic 4 or 5 times, the movie lost something to me. Thats not a bad thing, its just, I knew what was coming next and the element of surprise was gone. The "holy Fuck that was awesome" was not there for me like it could have been if I was not so familiar with the story. I think O'l Zack did the best job anyone could have done with this movie. Honestly, this could have been a 3.5 hour picture. Lets see the directors cut before we shred him. To be honest, I think the film is groundbreaking, and he has opened a new door in filmaking. Much like Scott, Tarantino, Jackson, Fincher and Del Torro have throughout the last 30 years.
I had no problem with Akermans performance, was it Moonstruck, no, but have you read her in the comic? She's a nitwit. Its a shame that people keep saying how dense it was. True, it was alot to take in, but we have been so condition to a narrow plot line, it was fun to challenge yourself to keep up.
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That is fucking cool! Pardon the tangent.
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That is fucking cool! Pardon the tangent, but I work for sideshow collectibles
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Fuck off.
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Does Dr. Manhattan squirt blue splooge?
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and he's circumcised.
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You know what Watchmen makes me think of guys? Rocketeer from Sideshow Collectibles! Awesome!!!
Guys? Guys? -
I Agree with SoylentMean
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Except the squid, I don't understand the complaints from fans. They can only be nitpickers or Republicans. Frankly, Manhattan as the threat makes more sense. After ten years of no more squid attacks, how likely is it the peace will continue? It's about as effective as a lesser asteroid strike. With Manhattan, we know who's watching and that we're powerless against him.
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Mar 06, 2009 11:07:56 PM CST
WATCHMEN is "fundamentally immature, self-pitying and sentimenta
by fletcher_hanks
A.O. Scott in the New York Times concludes that the entire premise of the film "is rooted in a view of human behavior that is fundamentally immature, self-pitying and sentimental." LOL!
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Not really a credible institution, The New York Times, now is it?
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It doesn't really make a difference whether Veidt used a squid or framed Dr. Manhattan, the world is still screwed. Eventually people would come to realize that neither the "otherworldly squid creatures" or Dr. Manhattan were still a threat to the human race. Eventually we would go back to the status quo and it would all start over again. The Comedian even said so to Nite Owl when they were trying to quell the riot. "This is the American Dream" essentially we as a species will always be prone to violence and confrontation. Veidts great plan for world peace is doomed. All those people died to buy the world a few more years. So in the end, no matter what ending you prefer or think was best, it was all for nothing. I do like the scene at the end where New York is being built. Everything had Veidt's logo on it. It looked like Ozzy suceeded in doing what his hero Alexander the great couldn't, taking over the world. He was going to be making a tidy little profit from these "disasters." Makes me wonder what his real motives were.
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I would have thought this talkback would have been filled with snide comments and refutations by the folks who run AICN. First Watchmen is a great movie and now this?
Truly a sign of the apocalypse. -
I'm noticing a pattern in this talkback...most of the people who went in never having read the comics seem to like the movie more than the diehards. Which completely contradicts the theory I had for the last few months. I was convinced that the general public would hate the movie and it would bomb at the box office. Now, I think it's actually going to make some decent money. Oh, and by the way...never read the comics, loved the movie.
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Can someone tell me what A.O. Scott was talking about?
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As a fan of this comic and heavily immersed sequential art enthusiast and student, I went to see this with two friends who had no idea what they were getting into and they both immediately expressed a desire to see this movie again. When I brought up the additional 45 minutes and alternate ending (without revealing the major change) they only gushed about the movie more. It wasn't that they were blown away or thought it was a perfect movie. They both just expressed the fact that no movie with this kind of imagination had ever challenged them as much as this. They immediately asked me if this was part of a trilogy. That's the kind of love, affection, and curiosity that I think we'll come to see from the general public. My hat is off to Zach Snyder. This film is totally conscious of itself and looks like it cost $1 billion to make. Simply amazing. I felt justified in my affection for the medium and the respect paid by this movie. Thank-you all.
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I think the two movies are being compared because the Watchmen trailer made its glorious debut in front of TDK. So after seeing TDK, most people were talking about how awesome it was and how awesome the Watchmen trailer was. A deep-seated association took place. And for the extra nerdy, there could be the subliminal aspect that the song used in the trailer was from a previous Batman film.
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(spoilers) Believe it or not. I dont EVEN mind the aspect of the Squid not being there....-- I dont mind changes.. but one must be very careful.. The framing Dr. Manhattan aspect did NOTHING but mess it up!!! Dr. Manhattan was created by the USA was it not? I mean it becomes more of an inditement of the USA does it not that Dr. Manhattan was to blame?? I agree with a review on this site.. It should have been an Alien threat of some sort thats the whole idea. The planet uniting for a common foe/threat.
The movie is a tragedy, ala Hamlet, Shakespearian, so why buffer the tragedy to give it more hopefulness? It insults our intelligence.. people could handle it. Alan Moore leaves us all the glimmer of hope we need when the boy finds the journal at the end. -
Dr. Manhattan was a product of a US Experimental accident.. but same difference.
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I went to see a midnight screening with a group of 8 people...all between the ages of 25 to 40; very diverse group of people from all different kinds of backgrounds and jobs; and only one person from our group had ever read the comics. Here's the key thing: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US ENJOYED THE MOVIE. It felt long, but that probably just has to do with the fact that I didn't get home until 4:00am and I have a one-year-old who wakes up at 8:00. It has a great complex story (it's not so much a superhero movie as much as it's a human drama where the characters play superheroes), terrific acting, and absolutely no chance of ever spawning a sequel (an important feature when you stop and think about it). I'm sorry if some of the fanboys are disappointed, but the entire theater I was in standed up and cheered when it was over.
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PS3 vs. Xbox 360, Dark Knight vs. Watchmen, Your tiny cock vs. your desperate need to be on the winning side of some invisible conflict. Tuck in your low self esteems and enjoy multiple things.
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The tone and pacing of this movie including the Sam Spade like voice over remind me so much of Blade Runner. And like Blade Runner, I think this movie will be a classic that ages well. The only part of the movie that let me down was the soundtrack. Zach made some poor choices using the same old stale songs that are used in every movie that crosses multiple decades. Do we really need to hear "All Along The Watchtower" again. Otherwise great film. Actually for me this is a just a teaser for what will be the ultimate experience, the director's cut DVD.
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Thats an end quote to a series in Watchmen. "2 riders were approaching" That's why it was in the movie. Your bustin on Hendrix but not saying a world about K.C and the friggin sunshine band!!haha!! Its all good!
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Thats an end quote to a series in Watchmen. "2 riders were approaching" That's why it was in the movie. Your bustin on Hendrix but not saying a word about K.C and the friggin sunshine band!!haha!! Its all good!
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God is an American. Ergo, America is to blame. Hence, no world peace, because you can point the finger right at Nixon and his policies for the massive destruction. I fully understand what his plan was. It. Won't. Work. It's a dumb plan because the only possible success it can have is uniting most of the world against another country. If that would work, WW2 should have resulted in world peace. I will not buy that most countries will adopt a "aw shucks, I guess the face of America's foreign power just went ape shit" mentality. It is a striped assumption to ask an audience to make, and I will not buy into someone requiring me to check my brain at the door. And as far as world peace? At least the book gave a cause that people could unite under. We can fight interdimensional monsters, how do we fight God? Remember, beating the living shit out of a dog so that it doesn't bite you does not a tame dog make. Do you get it now, or should I dumb it down a little for you?
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Rorschach - 85% correct. Had the height, posture, and most importantly the voice. But the way he ate those fucking beans made me sick to my stomach the same way the book did, and I swore I was looking at Rorschach.
Nite Owl - 98% This is the Nite Owl. Period. (-2% for the suit. Damn that suit.)
Comedian - 90% I was hesitant on Morgan, but he did a fantastic job realizing the sarcasm and weakness of Blake. His Comedian was not as mean as he should have been.
Manhattan - 50% - Looks like Doc, acts like Doc, but doesn't sound like Doc. And why is his dick so fucking big? Big deviation from the book for no reason other than to have a bigger dick.
Silk Spectre .0% Couldn't even get the hair right. Poor casting, poor performance.
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It doesn't really matter what the temporary cause was for humanity to unite, does it? Whether it was a Squid or Manhattan or Santa Claus. That fat dude was going to publish Rorshach's story. And the plan probably wouldn't have worked anyway, as you say, "beating the living shit out of a dog so that it doesn't bite you does not a tame dog make". I'm not the smartest guy in the world and even I know that.
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A powerful gesture like Manhattan supposedly made, be it an American God or not, is still a action that killed people everywhere. People would unite against it, not the where. I.E. Bin Laden hit us, we dont hate the Saudis? (well not that bad at least)..but do you dig,,,and dont get too hi brow, its a fantasy movie. Just by merely spending 12 bucks on a movie ticket is checking your brain at the door, who you kiddin!!
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Goose Egg. I'd rather see Brandon Routh play Ozymandias than Matthew Goode.
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As Ozy...cmon...its done! Embrace the Goode in all of us!
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I think the point is that it doesn't matter if the world blames the US. As long as they are afraid of Manhattan, they will stay in line. We're not uniting to fight; we're uniting to surrender. It's more of a Colossus: the Forbin Project ending in Snyder's version than an Outer Limits ending.
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Seriously. Bad idea for a director. He does action great, but there shouldn't be such stylish action in Watchmen. They're not supposed to have superpowers, and yet Comedian's punching through brick. No good.
I wish there was someone to take up Kubricks mantle. Aronofsky would have shown respect to completely objective storytelling of the book, instead of force feeding us plot points with a glowing spoon. -
people who blame Snyder for the style over substance of 300 (as if thats automatically a bad thing) have obviously never read the book. He perfectly nailed the essence of that movie. give him some credit.
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First off it wasn't a fucking squid. It was the reveal of a tiny little mystery hinted at throughout the entire series. It is a unique life form that is genetically unlike anything on earth. That, and its power to kill, are what freaks everyone out into wanting peace. Yet, in Moore's brilliant story, the end is not wrapped up in a neat little wimpy package. The ending of the movie has been done before, a million times, and that is why it sucks. The real ending is far more unique and interesting. Oh, let's not do the real ending. Let's puss out and frame someone, who will take the blame because they are good and noble. What a shitty cop out. Yawn!
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50% of a character's essence consists of their voice and penis size? thats some fucking amazing research you're doing. what is the other 50% made of?
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Nah Im kidding. I did that for dramatic effect. But Snyder emphasized on the violence, glorifying to the point of disbelief. This shouldn't have been "Spiderman", it should have been "Godfather 2".
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interesting. i think i might dig it, considering i'm not a whiny raging nerd who can't stand change.
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The voice and the Penis size. Doc Manhattan didn't sound like Doc Manhattan, he sounded like Billy Crudup. 25% of the character is missing if his voice doesn't make you feel as big as an ant.
The penis is a big distraction. It isn't feasible for a caucasian man to be hung like a porn star from the Sudan. It was a big, glowing, distraction. People shouldn't giggle when they see a guy made of energy, they should be terrified and amazed. The dick and the voice prevented that from happening. -
All flash and no substance.
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Watchmen was a fine movie. My date liked it, like talking about it, and I got sex for it, so no hate. It was very ambitious, and it had very big flaws, but a great diet version of the book. Diet.
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All Flash and no substance? if anything its the other way around.
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I felt like I was seeing a cover band of a group that I really liked. And the lead singer was great (Rorschach) but the rest of the band never really achieves a sublime level. It was a competent effort, just not really rousing in any particular way. Oh yeah, the dude who played Nixon sucked- sucked the life out of any scene he was in, and sucked the tension out of the movie. Oh well!
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Because I waited 20 years to watch the first time in a shitty place. Awful sound and image. WORSE THAN A LAME CAM-RECORDING, I SWEAR. Fucking amateurs. At the end, near midnight, grabbed a taxi, went to another place, running like crazy and then, SWEET HEAVEN. THIS MOVIE ROCKED MY WORLD. Again, but this time, the right way.
Many many many many thanks, Zack and the brave crew. You guys are ALL KINDS OF AWESOME. Can not wait for the director´s cut. Gotta sleep now.
PS. Squid? Watch the flash cartoon. Brilliant. -
big dong or teeny weenie, people are gonna giggle about a big naked blue dude.
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As close to the comic as we are going to get. Well done, sir.
Minor gripes: Ozymandias difficult to understand when he spoke, Comedian not a rapist, wonder how someone who hadn't read the comic would keep up, but these are minor gripes.
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"25% of the character is missing if his voice doesn't make you feel as big as an ant." Um, no. His voice is that of a regular man in the GN.
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When he brings his body back together after disintegrating, his friend and girlfriend first recognize HIS VOICE. Because it's UNCHANGED.
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I found myself a couple of times wondering what people who hadn't read the comic thought of certain scenes, then I realized I worked too goddamned hard all week to worry about those fuckers. I enjoyed it very much. I am still a squidy, (in my mind I am the ULTIMATE squidy), but I'm glad I knew the squid was out months ago because I had time to come to grips with it. I even admit that without a whole shitload of exposition, the squid would have looked REALLY out of place in the film, nonetheless, I will always think ZS is a bit of a coward for not trying to do it. I read this first as a freshman in high school, I was either thirteen or fourteen. I loved every character, but Rorschach man... I actually felt a bit teary eyed at seeing a few of his scenes come to life. One thing I haven't seen in this talkback, which I admit is too long to read at this hour in its entirety, in the book, it is obvious that Dan is impotent in his first attempt to get it on with Laurie, but in the movie I thought they made it look like he prematurely ejaculated. I can only assume that this was an attempt to appeal to all the premature ejaculators on AICN, myself included, but the impotence was more appropriate in that Dan was feeling so powerless because of his forced retirement that he couldn't get it up until he once again donned the costume. Anyone else like talking about fat middle-aged weirdo's sex lives enough to weigh in on this?
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Why the hell are a shitload of you disturbed by the presence of a blue penis onscreen? It's okay for Silk Spectre to have her tits exposed but the presence of a penis drives everyone insane.I personally think it's because of insecurities with your penis sizes. You don't feel adequate enough and so you take it out on a fictional character.
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that Dolph Lundgren is the perfect casting for every blonde superhero and yet no one casts him. My other choice for Ozymandias was Matthew McConaughey, who actually can act, so stop looking at me like that. We really need more blonde superhero types. Someone get on that.
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I just saw it at it was great. All of the criticism is ridiculously overblown... the old age makeup is great, but it's on screen for like 5 minutes... malin ackerman is just fine is her role, she actually really good in some parts... the acting is really good throughout actually... ok, i'll grant the change to the ending isn't too hot, it's not awful but it seems unnecessary... but otherwise... it was great.... Snyder honored the hell of the source material.... in fact, barring No Country for Old Men... I actually can't think of ANY movie adaptation more slavishly faithful to its source... can anyone else? Whatever... it was great. What a relief. Wish i could watch it again right now. i'm going again tomorrow for sure.
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The Silk Spectre plotline *stank on ice.* I don't know if it was the acting or the writing, or both, but no one walked away from that plotline alive. Rang totally hollow. And the movie is way overwritten in parts. Symptomatic of these moments is when the camera pans back from the grave, showing all these headstones and mourners... to a sign that says "cemetery." Uh, duh. Like I was going to think it was a cupcake factory?
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Mar 07, 2009 1:05:22 AM CST
wow... there's a lot of typos in that... sorry. i'm going to be
by phaedrus007
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And I fucking loved the shit out of this movie. It was great. There were some things that didnt make sense like the random fucking tiger with bunny ears. Dr. Dangly dick's mood swing on Mars pissed me off. "I dont like humanity, its useless. Oh wait, you sexy girl are a miracle. Now I perfectly understand humanity." Other then that and Snyder's now signature akward sex scenes, it was great.
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Brad Pitt sucks, Tom Cruise sucks, and Jude Law sucks, Ozy wasn't as good as inkblot guy, owl guy, blue guy and rapist guy, but any of those above mentioned actors would have, I don't know... insert your own profanity filled diatribe here. I mean just thank god you guys guys who posted above weren't in charge of casting this thing. Also, this may be my last chance so, deep breath... GIANT SQUID!!! (ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈
(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈ -
we see it in Japan, motherfuckers.
Which is not bad by some standards.
Studios get this in your head staggerd release, will mean more downloading, more piracy and ultimately less ticket. sales.
Am a big fan so I will wait, but others won't.
Being a fan I will wait -
I suppose, technically, I liked the movie. It was a good movie. I liked the acting. Wilson certainly understood Dreiberg, and I really enjoyed Crudup as Manhattan. That being said, I felt like I was seeing this movie for the second time because it's pretty much exactly the same as the novel. I found myself bored at times because I knew exactly what lines and scenes were coming up next. So yes, it was good, I suppose, but it offered absolutely nothing that the novel didn't. On the other side, I feel if I hadn't read the novel, I'd just be too confused. And because I had read it, you subconsciously fill in the missing scenes because everything else is the same.
So I suppose a little disappointed, as I feel an adaptation should offer something new to the text (with a novel, it's a little different, but with a graphic novel, you have the IMAGES, you've seen these shots before), but Snyder obviously understood the material. This is still better than someone like Bay making the movie and completely disrespecting the text though. I am SURE I'm not the only one who feels this way. -
Isn't supposed to work. Ultimately, in the comic, in the final scene he's in, he expresses uncertainty. The fact that his plan worked *initially* does fit.
I have a bigger problem with the fact that the smartest man in the world has a really easy password. It might as well be the password to an idiot's luggage.
Also, my god people it's a penis. Did it scare you? Get over it. -
For this reason, I hated the film.
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Because with Dark Knight, they took stories and characters and created something NEW. You didn't know what was going to happen. This was exactly the same. If Nolan had done a literal adaptation of The Killing Joke (provided it was long enough to sustain a two hour movie), I'm sure I would have been bored and had my same issues with that.
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I was originally going to re-read the GN before I watched the movie, but I decided to hold off so the movie could stand on its own (as much as that's possible). And it stands on its own quite well. Anybody out there seriously using Malin Ackerman's performance, or old age make-up, or the revised ending to pan this movie, they're full of shit. Ackerman isn't going to win an Oscar, but she's passable. The only make-up jobs that didn't ring true was Nixon. And the ending isn't a recreation of the GN, but its internally consistent within the world of the movie, and in no way effects the quality of the viewing experience. Unless you're a whiney asshole who's pissed that Warner Brothers didn't let YOU make the movie.
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Dude, the Doc Manhattan scene was the best part. Cut that down and really there's no point in enjoying the movie at all. The whole structure thing makes sense, that's how the comic was and it was designed that way to show what comics could do that other mediums couldn't. In a way Alan Moore was right because that part of it, the structure was off for a film, however putting the Doc Manhattan Mars scene in there out of nowhere is still awesome because it's almost virtuoso how it comes about. Issue 4 is an amazing comic and it's amazing just how everything takes a backseat to this one story, and worked with the film, but the other stuff not so much.
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Mar 07, 2009 1:22:29 AM CST
"What is that, Dan? What's that you smell of? Nostalgia.
by danielkurland
How was that line not in it this as well? But yes, I'll admit the opening credits were great, and Manhattan's back story and his "scrolling through time" were greatly done, but again, identical to the book.
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"When you adept a movie (even a holy grail like Watchmen) shouldn´t you adept it for today´s audience and change the threat to global warming or corporate conspiracies?? I think this is doable while staying true to the "meaning" of the source material." when you adapt Holy Grails you don't mess with it. Idiots liek you are exactly the reason people feared a modern Watchmen movie, if you're gonna do that. Don't call it Watchmen. it'd be like saying Lord of the Rings needs to be updated, add laser swords. It's stupid. Have some respect. It's an alternate universe anyway.
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I bought the collected graphic novel about 6 months ago. At first I was too busy to read it. Then I decided I didn't want to know what happens. I was right. Too many disappointed reviewers wrote on here that they felt bored or frustrated that they knew everything that would happen. I didn't know, so I genuinely liked the movie. Got home and skimmed the book. Some lines were literally lifted while most others slightly paraphrased. And now I know what Squid is. I just got to thinking about all the times people told me too much and ruined the movie; or by watching the collective trailers, tv ads, and exclusive clips, you figure out every twist and turn of the plot. Some movies like The Incredible Hulk SHOW YOU THE ENDING. I knew beforehand that Ed Norton's grinning, green-eyed, CU would only make sense to appear at the end. He learns to control his transformations...so he can join The Avengers I guess. Anyhow, Watchmen wasn't spoiled for me. I liked it. I didn't love it (though I loved parts of it), but I liked it and will certainly view it many more times on home video.
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there wasn't much talk, I mean the scene with laurie mentioning how his arrival changed the world in terms of technology wasn't mentioned.
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did you actually type that out? because if you did, you are a sad sad cunt.
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Get the impression that there is a scene in the movie, where manhattan is swinging it around and shouts out "Worship my big blue cock"
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Loved it. I'm seeing it again tomorrow in IMAX.
I hope the director's cut fills in some more of Veid's backstory. He's the character most in need of more history / buildup.
Otherwise, WOW. Instant classic a 'la The Dark Knight. -
The alien, more simple, more primal. People around the world don't know that Manhattan has become distant from huamnity, the government just assumes he's gone rogue and say we should unite. with an alien, there is evidence, the bodies etc(yeah there was devastation in the other) but with the alien, people would unite against a possible alien threat. how would people untie against doc manhattan?
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Mar 07, 2009 1:51:28 AM CST
I just need to say again, Wilson fucking nailed Dreiberg...
by danielkurland
Absolutely perfect. Sure, Rorshach and others were great, but Wilson is who stood out for me. It's easy to put on a cool voice and do awesome shit on screen, but you could see the human elements in Nite Owl wonderfully.
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Which is exactly why Ozy's plan is doomed to failure. Sure it would work initially but eventually the other countries will turn on the country they think is responsible "there is a God and he is American". Ozy wouldn't be able to hold it forever. He's also doomed in the comic, but with more subtlety. Only in the comic he's smart enough to realize its possible he made a mistake.
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Yup, I said it. Fuck the squid. Loved the flick. A-.
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the thing I couldn't get out of my head was that Rorschach is to superheroes what House is to doctors. Also, this movie holds nothing back and it was the first movie i've seen in a while that I went into with high expectations and all of them were met. Every decade there is a sci-fi movie that most people don't "get" completely, but the general public also turns into a classic after it's theatrical run. Blade Runner ---> The Matrix ---> Watchmen
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Mar 07, 2009 2:03:01 AM CST
Dead film critic in alley this morning, tire tread across burst
by star hump
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I loved the reference to 'Mr. Gorsky' during the Neil Armstrong gag (where Manhattan photographs Neil on the moon).
http://tinyurl.com/2jo2z8 -
Watched the Watchmen earlier today and have been chewing on it ever since. I have to say I wasn't looking forward to the film, not because I think the book is 'unfilmable' but because Watchmen is the very definition of a comic's comic, the reason the book works so well as a piece of art is because it is a comic. Translating it into another medium takes a lot of the work out of context. On top of that, nothing in Snyder's track record had me very excited about the prospect of him doing this movie. The fact that he actually dumbed down Dawn of the Dead did not give me much confidence. 300 can't be dumbed down because, frankly, there's really nothing to that story.
So how did he do.....In my opinion, the movie's a mess. I attribute this to just a lot of really bad decisions as to what to keep and what to cut. In trying to keep things 'faithfull' to the book Snyder completely overlooked the fact that a lot of the scenes played very awkwardly due to them never being meant for film. A good example of this, when Laurie goes to see Dan after she has a fight with Manhattan and they're just standing in the hallway not moving while she spills her guts....yeah sure, it's just like the book but does it work on the screen? The uneven acting didn't help matters either. Honestly, the only acting I found no fault with was Crudup's, and that was really just his voice, which I have to admit, I thought was sublime as Manhattan.
And then there's the the stuff that was cut. One of the wonderful things about the book is that it's such a slow boil, with a very gradual buildup and release. There was nothing gradual about the movie at all. Taking almost all of Veidt's end explanation, not just of what he was doing but of who he was, pretty much makes the ending fall flat. And yes, the squid is a big deal. With that ending, the world was left with horror and fear, but it was also enlightened. We are not alone, creation is bigger than us, we should stick together. Instead, we get the big blue American guy blowing everybody up. All your left with is the fear. The great thing about keeping the squid too is that it would've helped the mystery build a little more, with scenes of the island and all that good stuff that's in the book that seems random but comes together in the end. Nothing seems to come together in this new version, at times it seems like you're watching a bunch of different movies rolled into one.
So in the end, this is pretty much what I expected based off of what I've seen to date from Snyder. He stripped the work of almost all of it's subtlety and intelligence, and replaced it with longer, more gratuitous violence and sex. Yeah sure, it looked cool and there were good stylistic choices as to the way things were set up, but the pacing and structure just can't support the weight. -
...but it rocked! I am very happy with the movie.
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that the transition from the Comedian's funeral with "Sound of Silence" playing to Laurie teleporting to California felt really abrupt? I wonder if there was some stuff cut there. Can't wait to see the extended version.
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i know i do
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What the fuck? The Lord of the Rings films are not only better films than Watchmen but they are better films in being that "films". They work as pieces of cinema, actually great pieces of cinema.
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...I thought it was strange when I saw people walking, since I initially thought it was bathroom breaks. Only they were leaving in couples and never came back. I even remember the parts. there were at least 12 people. A few after the Doc Manhattan scene (which was probably my favourite part), a shitload after the pedophile gets cleavered scene, and in a funny moment, one couple rushed out just before the arms got buzzsawed off. And, like I said, there was no mistaking the very vocal dissapointment of people leaving the theatre and few utterly confused folks.
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well you're a fucking idiot and deserve to stay a dumb cunt.
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...Except, no. The Fellowship was everything Lord Of The Rings should be. Two Towers and Return Of The King were horribly mutilated narratives, with some truly stunning and retarded inclusions of hollywood schlock that makes the No Squid debate look truly retarded. They work as one pretty good movie and two shitty endless borefests. I prefer the Watchmen movie to all of them, and thats just on first viewing.
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Fuck the Haters. Watchmen rules them all.
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there was a bigger meaning...
by beetlesjuice86 Mar 6th, 2009
06:53:53 PM
i was entirely loving this movie through (except for Oz and Silk Spectre) and then the ending kind of screwed it for me. seeing the city destroyed wasn't as breathtaking as seeing bloody bodies crowding the streets. and then blaming it all on Dr. Manhattan with a speech by Nixon? there was a grander meaning with nite owl just accepting it all and consoling silk with lust. oz questioning whether his actions were right to manhattan. oz wasn't the grand politician envisioned in the book. especially the scene where he shows his skills on live tv, it shows his perfectness and love by the people, almost like a Kennedy. in the movie, everybody was beneath him, a money grubbing business man that is easily hated within a second of meeting him.
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That's how I felt. And I can't help but think if it was done this way, more people would be happy, and these aren't things that needed to be changed, ie the creature at end for a mass audience, Director just should of thought of this. Doesn' really add running time, just needed to be thought out. -
Mar 07, 2009 2:45:09 AM CST
Also, no offence to fat neckbeards the world over....
by whinynegativebitch
...But Snyder is ten times the director Jackson is. How many fucking crazy zooms and dutch tilts can one man fit into a movie if hes not named Gilliam? Don't get me wrong, I love Jacksons early stuff, but The Lord Of The Rings trilogy and especially King Kong are some incredibly bloated, sloppy chunks. Also; People live in fear of Manhattan, not unite against him. Which is actually why some people prefer the film ending. Once they figure out the aliens aren't real, which they would in hunting them down, its all over. With Manhattan there is nothing they can do but play nice or fear retribution.
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I didn't not believe her in her role. Her role was pretty thankless, so anyone in it would have been pointed out as a weak link.
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But the book did give the feeling that the threat was imminent even if only New York got fucked, the movie didnt. Having more destruction doesn't make it more powerful, look at the movie Threads, only based in Sheffield. That's the most droning dread filled movie ever.
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Just kill yourself. If you think having silly designs and a gothic approach equals art compared to Nolan's Blade Runner and Heat inspired movies that echo classic Detective comics then kill yourself.
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I'm a fan, I had high expectations, and this movie matched them.
One hell of a ride, an uncompromising movie I plan to check out many more times over the years. -
My take on it was the same as WhinyNegativeBitch -- I got the impression that the world would unite in fear of more retribution from Manhattan, not unite to destroy him. It's the 'Angry God' scenario. In fact, I think this ending would have been better cemented if Manhattan played along at the very end and broadcast to the world that he would be watching them and would not hesitate to do it all again if they didn't change their ways. I mean, the dude was going off into the galaxy anyway, and he agreed with the logical side of Veidt's plan, so they really should have pushed for Manhattan to cap it off himself and then disappear.
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...Of utter fucking destruction. The lack of, well, blood and flesh (in a film not shy of it) kind of muted the impact. I wonder why Snyder shyed away from that. Ah well, I enjoyed it more than I enjoyed the book. But now I might go back and reread it.
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...Is that people are claiming a violent conservative vigilante as the real 'hero' of the movie. Why is it that liberals rally against violence and war, yet they're always the first to get a huge boner over violent characters protecting the world in an uncompromising way? If superheroes actually existed in the real world, liberals would hate on them and demand accountability, conventions, guidelines etc.
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he played Veidt with a menace that I thought was an interesting departure from the comic. Sure, he wasn't as imposing as the Comedian but that worded for the film and the aforementioned menace in his eyes when he talked to the corporate suits helped reveal an utterly ruthless nature. Ackerman wasn't bad either and her hotness was 10. Fuck you haters.
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Seriously. Tom Cruise has the frustrated arrogance that could have really sold the complexity of the role.
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The Godfather Part 2 is 3 hours and 30 mins. I always knew you were an idiot and people still remember your naive idea of how to get a movie made.
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He was the hero of the book too, dumbass. I'm anti right wing, but by the end of the book Rorschach was beyond politics. The whole thing was that he was the 'superhero' in terms of mythic ideals in between all these weak superheroes, and superficially he was a fascist. And the book is misanthropic, basically saying Rorschach is extreme but what he's doing works, which says alot about humanity, of course its fictional but it's not hard to think of it as true in our world. This is why I hate this movie not being done properly. And if you did read the book then you are just an idiot.
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For being the smartest man on Earth, Veidt sure is dumb
by Zarathos666 Mar 6th, 2009
08:28:51 PM
His plan won't work. Be he god or man, Dr. Manhattan is an American. Whatever Nixon says, some governments will blame America for the attacks. Be it for setting up Manhattan's origin, pushing him too hard in Vietnam or using him as a deterrent to the USSR. Both directly and indirectly, it's the American government's fault. How does that end war on Earth? Secondly, so what if someone finds out Veidt did it? So he is exposed, does that really change anything? He still has the S.Q.U.I.D., so all he has to do is just say "play nice, or I'll do it again". That isn't uniting people, that's suppressing them. At least in the book, his plot was plausable. I mean, granted, it's the Star Trek view of how to achieve peace (scale everything up so we think of ourselves as Earthlings first instead of things like Americans and Soviets), but it still takes into account how petty and vindictive humans are. Plus, there is actually a real danger if he is found out.
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This is exactly why the ending is fucked, and what makes it 'dumbed down', not much to think about when it gives you an answer. -
He starts to think of clothing as irrelevant. He has a costume and as time progresses starts to lose more of it.
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Mar 07, 2009 3:13:41 AM CST
Doc Manhattan should just DP Malin Ackerman every night
by most excellent ninja
I would. He can.
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Mar 07, 2009 3:18:57 AM CST
uberfreak he wasn't supposed to be a menace you dickhead
by most excellent ninja
fuck, i hate it when people say "ohh I liked it better because etc" that's the character! Ozy doesn't like what he's doing.
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is Samuel L Jackson in this comic book movie, cos I heard he was legally required to be in every comic book movie ever made as of last week......?
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Mar 07, 2009 3:38:35 AM CST
There's a simpler way to put this without mouth breathing....
by darkroomdemons.com
Seeing Watchmen the Movie is like seeing a full size knock off replica of Michaelangelo's David at a bazaar or garage sale: You get the gist of it and its beautiful to behold, but its not quite the same as the moment you had with the original years earlier.
It will be a better dvd. Lost are the suspense and build of Rorsach's detective work and the heartbreaking loss of Hollis. The gravitas of the Black Freighter's theme is what makes Doc Manhattan's decision to side with Veidt in the end work. The emotional moment of the Newstand and comic kid embracing at the end is lost on anyone who hasn't read it, and the omission of the squid WAS a huge mistake. The whole point was to unite the world against an uncommon and unnatural foe, not one with political alignments.
Also, I agree with Roeper. Malin Ackerman should get paid to do something other than act.
Still, I couldn't have done it better. And for that I'm grateful someone at least fucking tried.
Funniest thing I heard tonight as I ran to the bathroom on the way out: "Alan Moore's gonna be pissed!"
The audience was 50-50. -
The Dark Knight is dull compared to Watchmen. I liked the TDK the first time I watched it, never watched it again, but have seen Watchmen 4 times already. I do think its a superficial adaptation, I do think Snyder had his heart in the right place but ultimately wasn't smart enough to bring the best elements of Watchmen to life, YET, for all its flaws, it eviscerates all other comic book films!!!
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= win.
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...Comparrisons to Brazil and Blade Runner are apt. Its going to be a long time before studios take a risk on such a project again, and I know more than half the people who see it will hate it. But I feel like celebrating it just because it somehow exsists, especially when you look at what giant budget summer entertainment has and will be offering us.
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While its great to finally see the movie on the screen... theres so much of the good stuff left out i think the only time i'll watch it again is to see if the full cut is any better.
Niteowl, Rorshach, Manhattan (even though i had a less emotional voice in my head), and Comedian were as good as we could hope for, but they went for the general demo with the plotting.
The movie is for some reason centered around dan and laurie... to the point they turned a 1 page (at best) romantic scene into a 2 minute awkward hump-fest set to leonard cohen singing "hallelujah" for fucks sake.. all they needed to film was on the page.
And i think that might be my biggest (and only) major criticism of the movie, Snyder apparently can't adapt a comic without going for the most "graphic" content from it. At more times than i can count on one hand half the people i was at the movie with (around 3 or 4) would be cringing and looking away from the screen because for some reason Snyder decided to ramp the graphic violence up 10 fold. Most of the violence in the comics was merely hinted at, for ex: Rorschach cleaving the child murderers head three fucking times with a meat cleaver.... its not clever its fucking cheap, and disgusts even the most intelligent viewer, For ex #2, Big figure having his thugs hands cut off... *NOT EVEN IN THE BOOK*, and totally graphic, disgusting, and unnecessary... All that, and they can't properly show the carnage on NY with a body count, *and* they don't seem to care about showing Manhattans dong whenever they can (and for the record nudity doesn't bother me *at all*, it just wasn't even in the comics, they reached for an R rating for the movie apparently so they could beef up fight scenes and make people cringe, show Manhattan full frontal and to have two over-long awkward love scenes between Dan and Laurie (the first one wasn't too bad, and it had a funny note at the "end", the second one was completely fuckin retarded.)
as a last point, i can't beleive they cut that much of dr.manhattan on mars, was the best part of the book for me but I'm thinking the team was forced to "dumb it down" for a more mass appeal... ahh the soft bigotry of low expectations...
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Boxofficemojo has stated the opening night of Watchmen is coming in at 4.55 mil - to put it in perspective, larger than 300 sneak but less than a quarter of TDK. They are unwilling to give a weekend estimate, saying it is too difficult to predict pictures with such ardent, built-in fanbases - as demonstrated in this tb.
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Mar 07, 2009 4:12:37 AM CST
amazing. fuckin amazing. FUCKING AMAZING.
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
the changed ending? so fucking brilliant. its changed, but has the same effect. rorscarch? amazing. dr manhattan on mars? amazing. jesus christ. i love this movie. its up there with dark knight. only flaw? ackermans performance. comes off as whiny at times. but other than that...just amazing
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Mar 07, 2009 4:13:24 AM CST
4.55 million from midnight shows actually
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
mmmkay
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Simply put, the film is a 2 hour plus "Cliff Notes LITE" for the graphic novel. It has most of the important elements of the graphic novel, coupled with gorgeous, riveting imagery and masterful performances by Hayley and Crudup. But everyone's already said that.
Honestly, my girlfriend wanted to read the GN beforehand, and I suggested she wait until after she viewed the film. I wanted to see what my opinion would be, having read the novel, versus her opinion, having never read it.
Well, our two opinions differed only slightly. For my part, I'd read so much bitching and moaning, and overreaction on the subject of The Curious Case of the Missing Squid, that I actually ended up more welcoming of a new ending. I loved just about all of Rorschach's scenes, but missed his relationship with the psychiatrist. I thought the Manhattan story was wondrously executed, but that that scene between him and Veidt toward the end should have been included. Overall I really was just very appreciative of such a 90% faithful version even MAKING it to the screen. No matter what fanboy naysayers complain about, surely they must know that Hollywood wouldn't have let ANY director (Snyder or Spielberg) get away with the borderline ridiculous/genius ending of the GN, along with all the bodies. Face it; even if Snyder would've included the squid, it wouldn't have done justice to the page. I think that scene is what everyone thinks about when they call the GN "unfilmable." It's hard to swallow, and when push comes to shove, the suits need not only money but good word of mouth from the uninitiated. Especially if they're giving a ton of money away for Snyder to make the film. I'd like to see ANY of you try to pull an ending like that off and get it past the suits. I mean really, what was he going to do, produce and finance it independently? I think not. Get real.
Anyhoo, as far as my girlfriend's opinion; having been completely unaware of what happens in the graphic novel, she liked the movie but her biggest complaint is that it was too predictable. Which it was, for 2009 anyway. Back in the 1986 it wouldn't have been so predictable obviously.
Some of her exact words were, "It was obvious Veidt was the villain from the way he was presented, "creepy blonde guy in tights," it was obvious Laurie was the comedian's daughter, and it was obvious Manhattan couldn't be destroyed the same way twice."
She also had a problem with the total lack of symbolism in the film. I told her there was a TON of subtle symbolism in the novel and that she has that to look forward to when she reads it. She's a sucker for symbolism, so the big upside-down "V" pyramid didn't cut it for her.
She loved the opening credits. Somehow I think that was her favorite scene, aside from the Manhattan origin story. Overall she liked the film, but thought it was too predictable. I told her there's no way she could predict the ending of the book. She asked "Why, is it Dr. Manhattan discovering martians on Mars and having them attack earth or something?" Not quite. But still.
I give it an 8/10. At least it will (and has) inspire/d a ton of people to read the actual GN. I overheard at least three people afterward saying "Man, I gotta read the book."
So, ironically, Snyder has directed his best commercial yet; one that points to "Watchmen" and says, "Read it."
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it shows that no matter what happens man needs a higher power to keep it in check. simple.
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Mar 07, 2009 4:35:19 AM CST
you guys are daft, its not about whats in there... its whats the
by champvinyl
... and what should be there but isn't.
FOr this cut (at least) they compromised intelligent writing for a romantic plotline and extra gore, its fucking ridiculous....
just found *another* scene that was added, extending the run time, that wasn't even in the book... Rorschach was never shown to drown Big Figure, they just showed him going into the restroom, dan and laurie had a chat, and then he came out... while that part in the film was actually well done (the door swinging, showing us a time lapse of what was going on), it didn't even need to be there, why would you compromise on important material while adding shit that was never in the book to begin with!?!? -
I read the comics about two years ago. Saw the movie in IMAX yesterday. I liked the movie overall. I did not mind the blue dong and it was really only distracting the first time it showed up. I actually LIKED how they changed the ending to leave out the squid. The DM bombs were actually in my mind a less far-fetched and corny alternative and the idea of framing him to be a villain in the eyes of the public even more-so than before made more sense as well. "As long as they think Jon(God) is watching" everything will be ok. The cast was great!
My criticisms: First of all, IMAX was a waste of time for this one.
They really failed to make use of the tech and I basically wasted my money on the IMAX showing. Second, although Malin Akerman was amazingly hot, I thought she was the weakest link. First of all, damn the studios for preventing the character from being able to smoke (honestly, blue dong but no cancer sticks?). Second, her acting sucked. I don't think she's a bad actress perse because she's done decent work in other films. Her character's soul was totally missing from this picture. Her mommy and daddy issues were hardly acknowledged, not to mention her feminist leanings. Her emotional delivery on mars was severely lacking conviction given that she was supposed to be trying to prevent a nuclear holocaust from destroying everything and frankly, I partially blame Zack Snyder for the lack of emotional tension in that whole scene too. That exchange should have been a lot more urgent and heated. In fact a lot of her scenes such as when she shoots Veidt lacked that spark of sadness/rage inside her character. So, um, boo.
But Rorschach and Nightowl were spot on. Veidt was fairly good though I still would have preferred an actor who reminded me more of Tom Cruise and less of David Spade. The comedian was also well played and I thought Dr. Manhattan was really nailed perfectly in a way I couldn't have imagined. -
I rather enjoyed the irony in the comic of Dan and Laurie engaging in light-comedic toilet humor while Rorschach committed yet another act of violence behind closed doors....with a toilet.
In my theatre, though, the film drew laughs from people who saw Rorschach towering over Big Figure. At the same time, a girl behind me let out an "Aww.." in pity of Big Figure. -
The sawing-off of arms in the prison scene was TOTALLY gratuitous. It might've appeased bloodthirsty 13 year old boys in search of 300-esque material, but I sat there thinking "Wow, not only is this off-tone, but it's like Quentin Tarantino directed the scene."
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The movie is so hyper violent compared to the GN that i couldn't even explain it to a half dozen people who had never read the book, after we got out of the movie.... there were points where my friends GF was cringing and not looking at what was going on... she did it at *least* a dozen times.
More often than not, it was violence that wasn't even in the book... how can a director claim to be good at visual imagery and is a "genius" or whatever, but can't even translate a fully Illustrated page to the screen?
I loved the flashes rorscach had during the interrogation, they were jarring, and rightly so.. if we get the full thing in the extended cut it should be even more jarring, but given its a translation of what was in the book i'm not disgusted, because its tastefully disturbing, not visceral.
i guess my point is that on the "fucked-up" scale watchmen should have been more "silence of the lambs", Less "Texas chainsaw massacre"
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We're looking at $63-70 million for the weekend. Hopefully it will have a strong saturday, pushing it closer to $70 million.
Either way we're looking at 4th best R rated opening ever, after Matrix Reloaded, Passion of the Christ and 300. Not too shabby! -
I have a feeling will help put this movie in the enchiladas of true greatness.
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yes her line readings were wooden, but i always saw Laurie as a flake anyway, as detached from society as Dr Manhatttan so she WOULD be socially awkward and talking to people would be kinda 'new' to her...just my take
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You either love it or hate it. There is no in between.
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Her acting actually isn't AS bad as it could have been. I mean, go watch "Heartbreak Kid," the Ben Stiller remake........on second thought, don't watch it.
Just know that comparing that film to this, she did alright and she could've been a lot worse. -
Was always annoying in the GN she walways read (to me, at least) like a 16 year old girl in the body of a 20-something superhero. Malin ackerman did all that she really could, her scenes with niteowl were extended and played out like cheap softcore, and her dramatic lines with Manhattan were totally neutered. She was just as annoying talking to Jon but at least it was *acting*. The way the film is now she's (unfortunately) been cast as eye candy.
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Only negatives were the sex scene music and half of Malin Ackerman's performance. I thought Matthew Goods was qctually quite, erm, good. Jackie earl Haley was the fucking dog bollocks, but they mention Kovacs age as 35, the dude looks (and the character in the book is) 10 years older than that. Totally thought that the amount of action was perfect for the length of the film, with the opening punch-up being a stone cold classic.Never have I ever found a 2 1/2 hour movie to be so damn short! Bring on the super-dooper extra extended ultimate directors cut extravaganza!Oh and as impressive as Manhattan's schlong undoubtedly is, it's no competition for the might of Dirk Diggler's meat!
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wouldn't you give yourself a bigger shlong? :P
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Perhaps this movie was as good as any hollywood studio with the capital to finance it would allow it to be. But it's no where as good as the novel. Call it "fanboy bitching" but there were some things that bugged the hell out of me. FWIW I was an IMAX screening with great picture and sound and I was cautiously optimistic going in, my expectations dampened but open minded.How come the blue light reflecting off Doc. Manh. looked like it was hitting the bottom of other actors' chins more than the front of their faces? Why didn't the reflected color match the color of his "skin"?Why did the normal humans fight like martial-arts trained/ heavily choreographed gods? Only Veidt claimed to have any martial arts training?Why didn't anyone's costumes have dust, wrinkles, wear and tear or stains? Why did most of the settings look like they were built yesterday except the ones that looked like they were old & decrepit?Why was there a maximum security prison that only had 60 prisoners in it yet look as though it could hold thousands? Why didn't Dan Dreiberg's facial hair grow? Why didn't Laurie Juspeczyk's hair ever get dirty, or curly or anything other than perfectly straight? Why were the retired heroes in peak physical form, young, skinny and fit when they hey hadn't been active for years?Why did Richard Nixon's nose look more like a halloween mask than the 37th president of the United states of America?Why did the filmmakers introduce us to Hollis Mason without telling us how he died?Why did the filmmakers show us the death of Bernard and Bernie without telling us whom they were or why we should care about them? Why did they show the offices of the New Frontiersman without telling us what kind of newspaper the New Frontiersman is?Why did the World's Smartest Man keep a book with his computer login password on his desk?Why did Doctor Manhattan create eyeliner when he re-built himself?Why was the plot of a 12 issue series shoehorned into one 3 hour movie when it could just as easily been divided into 2 or 3 serial segments with minimal budget increases and double or triple the box office potential?Why was there a credits sequence consisting of plain text on a black background?
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The violence was just too much for his whimpering little soul. And then his girlfriend didn't like it, and probably gave him a "little mouth" face, and that made him shit a brick like it probably always does, and made it impossible for him to like the movie. It's tough being a pussy out there.
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The movie was good for the first half, then some where down the middle it fell apart for me. The ending was underwhelming. I watched the motion comic before seeing the movie and holy shit it was way better. There were so many little things in the movie that were missing and would have made the diffrence. Rorshach's death in the movie felt pointless. I get why he died, but it just didnt feel right. This movie was good for what it was but great it is not.
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Bubastis is sort've pointless without the island. And even more pointless if you don't have the scene where Rorschach tells Veidt to 'get rid of cat'. I'll reserve final judgement for director's cut, but i'm still buzzing from seeing it. Had plenty of issues...but the movie is now permanently lodged in my head. It definitely did something right.
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That 1% is Veidt's plan. It pretty much worked as a different means to the same end, but there's no reason to change it at all. The alien would have worked better and looked cooler.
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Fuck the squid! The opening panels of chapter 12 are some of the most horrifying images ever. That will always be missed by me, yet I still think the ending works pretty damn well.
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You're entire post boils down to me *apparently* being worried what my supposed "girlfriend" thinks. guess what numbnuts, as i said in my post it was my *FRIENDS* Gf sitting next to me who was cringing and talking to her BF (I.E. my friend). I don't have a problem with excessive violence the problem that i had was that not even Myself (who was the only one of our 8 person group) who had actually read the book wasn't anticipating Tarantino violence x 5. Hell, i loved kill bill but in terms of graphic violence The House of Blue leaves swquence *pales* in comparison to the shit in this movie, and QT was more or less *forced* at the time to put even that comically bad blood spewing into greyscale to make the rating...
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if you look at the first 10 pages of chapter 12, snyder could have pretty much just negated the tentacles, added a bit of blue and done the exact same thing, jon and lauries exchange would have been better as well. I've heard they're not fond of the piles of bodies... funny they dont mind showing compound forearm fratures in real-time.
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You only hate the movie not being done right because you are a whiny cunt. Has nothing to do with the book to film translation. You'd probably find something to complain about if you won Powerball. "Oh great, now I have too much money to spend..." Cunt.
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How come the blue light reflecting off Doc. Manh. looked like it was hitting the bottom of other actors' chins more than the front of their faces? Why didn't the reflected color match the color of his "skin"?
Because the FX guys didn't fix it.
Why did the normal humans fight like martial-arts trained/ heavily choreographed gods? Only Veidt claimed to have any martial arts training?
Obviously they had training too, or they wouldn't have fought like so.
Why didn't anyone's costumes have dust, wrinkles, wear and tear or stains? Why did most of the settings look like they were built yesterday except the ones that looked like they were old & decrepit?
Because that's how they were designed.
Why was there a maximum security prison that only had 60 prisoners in it yet look as though it could hold thousands?
Because there were only 60 prisoners inside.
Why didn't Dan Dreiberg's facial hair grow?
Because Snyder didn't direct shaving cream commercials, only Gatorade. Why didn't Laurie Juspeczyk's hair ever get dirty, or curly or anything other than perfectly straight?
Because she uses Veidt hair products.
Why were the retired heroes in peak physical form, young, skinny and fit when they hey hadn't been active for years?
Because they probably kept toned.
Why did Richard Nixon's nose look more like a halloween mask than the 37th president of the United states of America?
Because Nixon was a monster.
Why did the filmmakers introduce us to Hollis Mason without telling us how he died?
Because he needed to change his Depends and there wasn't enough time to shoot the other scenes.
Why did the filmmakers show us the death of Bernard and Bernie without telling us whom they were or why we should care about them?Because if you kill a black guy, people riot, and the film is all about anarchy.
Why did they show the offices of the New Frontiersman without telling us what kind of newspaper the New Frontiersman is?
Because it should be obvious, given Rorschach's comment about liberals.
Why did the World's Smartest Man keep a book with his computer login password on his desk?Because it had naked pictures of Rameses II, and everyone knows Veidt digs Egyptian peen.
Why did Doctor Manhattan create eyeliner when he re-built himself?
Because he met My Chemical Romance while they were recording the butchering of a Bob Dylan song for the end credits, and Gerard Way suggested that it was cool for grown men to apply eyeliner. Unfortunately for us all, Manhattan did not vaporize Way. Instead, he took the advice.
Why was the plot of a 12 issue series shoehorned into one 3 hour movie when it could just as easily been divided into 2 or 3 serial segments with minimal budget increases and double or triple the box office potential?
Because it's a pain in the ass.
Why was there a credits sequence consisting of plain text on a black background?Because God hates you, and you are alone. -
I mean come on, talk about nitpicking. He was asking for it.
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everyone's bitching about inconsistencies and other bullshit when there's really only one thread of complaint someone can really make... they guy who made the movie kinda fucked it up. Hah.
i mean, he didn't totally screw the pooch, but... not far off. -
Man, i was a doubter of the synder ending, i really believe its a no balls ending, a cop out, a terrible cop out....BUT you just hit the nail on the head for me, it doesn't matter, the fat guy uncovers it anyway. I was looking for excuses to love this movie, but i couldnt with that peice of shit snynder ending, but now i think im ok with it, because i never even think about the fat guy ending, the questions raised before it are far to big to think about the fat guy ending... and i think thata gets lost on people
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Shut the fuck up dumb cunt. All my points are valid. Having a 70% great movie doesn't feel right. Typical retarded "ohh you'll find anything to complain about", the points i'm making are the same ones hundreds of people are making. Dumb cunt. Enjoy your typical hollywood fare.
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Both capture the superficial look and feel of the book which makes them acceptable to 99% of the people out there. Both decent as standalone pieces but both worse than the original material. Both overrated and deficient in key areas.
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Maybe you should watch Dark Knight again, because the Interrogation scene is more riveting than anything in Watchmen. but you're a dumb cunt.
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First, is Watchmen a good film?
I don't know.
Being so familiar with the original, some references were easy to spot for me, but I feel some audiences might have been confused. The whole minutemen thing looks rushed and pointless, and Hollis Mason is reduced to a single cameo (I wished to see his dramatic death so much!).
I was so scared people would laugh at Sr. Manhattan's penis. No one did. But DAMN that thing is huge!
About the ending: it's not a bad ending per se, but it does nto have the impact of the squid. Maybe it was not practical to have the squid, or the audiences would not get it, but come on, it would be awesome.
Some necessary stuff got cut out, some redundant shit remained. I will never know if it is a good film, but my wife, who had read only the first issue of Watchmen, really liked it - and I thought she would hate it. So maybe it is a good film after all.
See you in 9 months, when I review the 4 hour long DVD cut. -
Mar 07, 2009 7:26:44 AM CST
Lotr is a better film than Watchmen in film terms
by most excellent ninja
It can stand on it's own but that's because Jackson is a better filmmaker.
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There's no apostrophe in your possessive in that sentence and when I scanned your post I read it as your friends AND your girlfriend were cringing, but obviously that was not your intention. So that makes it less an issue of your being a pussy and more that you're a poor planner who doesn't know how to properly structure the group of people he sees a movie with. If I had sat down to watch Citizen Kane with some of the guys I went to high school with, I wouldn't get to enjoy it because I would be uncomfortable the whole time because they would be too stupid and provincial to like it. I would be uncomfortable because I'd feel like a bad host, as they hemmed and hawed and got bored and complained and all the rest of it. Or if I when I saw the original Dawn of the Dead in the theatre I had been dumb enough to take my mom or my aunt the nun, I probably wouldn't have liked it as much because I would have felt badly the whole time about how unpleasant THEY would have found it. But that's why I don't watch classic films with morons in the room, and didn't watch Romero films with my mom or with nuns, and wouldn't go see Watchmen with my friend's cunty girlfriend who would be a fucking clam bitch [or, perhaps, a cringing shrinking violet girly girl] about a movie with some violence in it. Consider it a lesson learned.
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'How come the blue light reflecting off Doc. Manh. looked like it was hitting the bottom of other actors' chins more than the front of their faces? Why didn't the reflected color match the color of his "skin"?'
The effect was done by strapping blue lights all over Billy Crudup. That light is coming from his chest. Also looked the right shade to me -
Read over have the talkback and didnt see it mentionned. Apolgize if it was further down. Anyways IO thought the Whatmen one-shot was brilliant. It was a one-shot spoof parody comic done in Dave Gibbons Art style. Reminds alot of Saturday Morning Watchmen. Which was brilliant.
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Though the Dr Manhattan stuff was funny "Hell Give you cancer and transform into a car" the one eww moment was The Comedian all I want is a kiss from Silk Spectre. Damn!!!!!!!
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but I want me money back, it was soooooooo dull! Apart from the bit in the prsion, which was th only bit of the movie I sort of liked.
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... and I can tell you about half of the audience didn't understand it. Personally? I really loved it - as has been said, it's not a masterpiece, but very well made all the same. Looking forward to the extended cut(s). Has no one cottoned on to the fact they tried to make Nixon look like a comic book villain?!? I thought it was none too subtle, but hilarious!
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www.psychicsquid.com
Made me realize that I missed the squid more than I thought I did. -
It's a book, not a graphic novel, but it reminded me of some of the dynamics in Watchmen. But Soon I Will Be Invincible is more of a dissection of the hero myths and comic cliche`s. On the surface, all the usual comic stuff happens, but the narrative explores a world of more serious, human issues behind all of it, sometimes serious, sometimes tongue-in-cheek. Worth a read.
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It's in there!!!!
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Nitpicking much? I can hear you now... "Why is it in 'Citizen Kane' that [insert 'expert' analysis here]?"
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Moore picked a great, epic, and ultimately preposterous scenario that makes about as much sense as Gene Hackman's plot to destroy the West Coast and then start a new one. It's silly--but it's also a highly typical & traditional super villain scheme. Veidt's idea is SO rooted in that old school comic book silliness. It's one of Moore's most clever ideas that, if taken too seriously, will ultimately sink the entire WATCHMAN concept. I miss the squid for exactly this reason, and the film's ending really waters down the whole story. I think it's Zack's moment to try and pull a Chris Nolan...he's trying to make the material too credible for its own good.
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THis just in: there isn't any way to edit your posts on aicn talkback, I don't suppose it really matters since your response was just a nitpick on grammar from my original comment followed by idiotic ranting...
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Let me start by saying I haven't read the GN, but one of the guys I went with is a huge Watchmen Geek and we both came away with the same feeling. We came away feeling that the movie was HUGE and they pulled it off well. I was really enjoying myself with it. I thought they got a lot done but it never felt like they were rushing from one scene to the next. I always get that feeling watching Harry Potter for instance, like they are rushing from one scene to the next, whereas Watchmen, felt paced and timed well. I thought it was great. I never felt like checking my watch. It built slowly, then got rolling, and gathered to a climax that was very satisfying. Since I don't know what the original ending was or what the squid is, I can't compare it to the novel. Perhaps someone else who has enjoyed (or not) both can fill me in.
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I mean, come on. If you want to nitpick a "comic book" movie, you can't seriously go "Hey, he'd be dead if he flew 20 feet and hit concrete head first."
I checked the list my friends and I compiled of what they CAN'T get wrong...and you know what? They hit every point. So I don't really think Watchmen has any problems as an adaptation. It has problems as a film.
John+villain=world joins together makes just as much sense as Alien-that-looks-like-a-giant-asshole-with-tentacles+villain=world joins together. And the Comedian discovering it and breaking down makes just as much sense as "I saw a giant-asshole-with-tentacles on an island and it scared me."
The real problems: pacing and lack of original dialogue (except for maybe 2 additional lines that added something), emphasis on action over character, and a silly studio-pushed denouement.
All of the fight scenes could have been trimmed, and for every cut a character moment could have been better developed. I'm not even sure you can follow/enjoy the movie if you haven't already read the comic to fill in the gaps.
- Every moment following Rorschach's death was manipulated to be more "satisfying" to a lowest-common denominator audience. The studio wanted Adrian to be killed, and the compromise was in letting him get a comeuppance via Dan's pummeling.
- And likewise, they obviously felt that Rorschach's sacrifice needed a witness.
- Giving the single most important line of the book to Laurie instead of John, and having her say "I know what Jon would say if he were here...". The entire play/movie Doubt is based on the idea that one line embodies - that beneath the facade of the steadfast is the one kernel of doubt that can make the whole structure crumble.
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Who can't enjoy this movie. It must be a horrible existence to never allow yourself to enjoy something so wonderful.
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...was it Stan Lee? Something about Raimi's Spider Man being just another interpretation of Spider Man? I think he mentioned something about Spidey being bigger than the medium in which he is portrayed, and that he will always exist, and artists will always have fun playing with the idea of his story. Can't remember if that was real or I dreamed it, but I figure whoever said it was right... The comic is one form of storytelling, and cinema is another. There are things the comic can provide that cinema can't, and vice versa. The comic was great. The film was great too. But to compare the experience of both is difficult. They're two different mediums. In my humble opinion, Snyder did a great job. I really enjoyed his movie.
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the audience i watched this with couldn't believe that this was a superhero film, some got visibly uncomfortable at the hardcore scenes!! this couldn't have been made any other way for the cinema,spot on!
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I caught the midday showing and I shit you not, I was the ONLY person in the cinema. I loved it, changed ending and all and believe me, I was one of the first to cry foul when I found out that the squid was out. I do however predict that this movie will be a flop. It's been marketed in the wrong way and I've never seen the cinema empty like it was today. That being said, I also think that this is a good thing, as it means that we won't have to endure the pointless sequel or remake in 18 months time. That you Zack Snyder for delivering the Watchmen movie that I've always wanted to see.
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Mar 07, 2009 10:03:55 AM CST
It was pretty good, but they kind of breezed through the ending.
by nickn328
I felt like it just didn't have the same impact as it did in the book, because you didn't see as much of the damage. Also, his journal in the New Frontiersman office felt sort of like an add on for me, not like an "ultimate cliffhanger".
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Mar 07, 2009 10:10:47 AM CST
Most_Excellent_Ninja I wish you were a real Ninja.
by alanmoores_squidblood
That way I wouldn't see you on these talkbacks.
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Just wanted to jump in on this one. Saw it yesterday in IMAX and it was awesome. My girlfriend who knew nothing about it really also loved it. I have read the book over and over in past years, and I thought the movie was really spot on. Of course, as everyone know, the ending was different, but I liked it and it didn't bug me in the least. I thought it made sense. I also liked Silk Spectre and thought she was good in this. I disagree with everyone saying she was bad. I think anyone who is debating on whether on not to see this should definately go check it out. Everyone whining about the squid is way off and this movie was excellent. Can't wait to see it again and am planing on going again this weekend.
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they represent the IDIOTS in america. people are complaining about doc's junk, the rape scene, the sex and language and violence...saying it should be rated x and to not bring your children to it- WELL FUCKING DUH. it's rated fucking R!!!!!it's true. this is a fan movie. the bulk of america is not ready and does not know what to make of it. they thought it was another superhero movie for kids....so, i predict the numbers to start sliding next week. maybe even boycotts by the stupid penis fearing mothers who all posted their reviews on fandango. do yourself a favor and skim through them to remind yourself of how stupid and close-minded your neighbors are.
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I like JUST talked to my landlord who was going to let her 11year old daughter go see this. back on point: I'm glad I got a $130million movie that WASN'T made for the idiots of america. It was made for us, the GEEKS of the WORLD. Is it perfect? no. Did I get a watchmen movie that satisfied me? yes. Will I go read the GN now? Yup.
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the ad campaign should have stated in 'quickspeak' at the end of every commercial 'rated r for violence,language and sexual situations'.....because we need to hold the hands of people that don't know what R is. kids shouldn't be going into this alone- or PERIOD, unless you want to have a lot of explaining to them afterwards. Back at my old theater, if a family was going to see something like this, we would actually remind and warn them that it may not be appropriate for their kids. we did it politely. we were a smaller, older theater. now they probably just let anyone in though. point is, we shouldn't even have to warn people. they should know what R means. they should read an early review or two. they should research and not assume every comic movie is for kids. actually, i can't think of one that ever has been.
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Hey guys! I thought the movie was so shitty!! I mean why would anyone ever want to see a penis! I don't even know anybody that has or has seen a penis before so to put one in a big budget movie and paint it blue and do so multiple times is a just so amoral! I hope my kids never see anything like that at all ever in their lives! Everything else was great, though! The violence was wholesome and family oriented with some artistic and tasteful gore! The characters were all very morally upstanding and nice, great role model types! The few choice swear words were well done artistic and the action was AWESOME! But it was just so disgusting to see that blue.....thing.....The movie was awesome but I hated it because nudity and the human body are so repugnant! Everybody in the theater immediately started having sex with each other and giving everybody AIDS whenever the "dong" was onscreen! I've told people for years this is what happens when humans aren't tightasses! Everybody starts having sex (ewwww) with everybody and we all die of AIDS! I'd like to recommend the film but the GIANT FUCKING PENIS DESTROYED THE EXPERIENCE! REPEAT: THE GIANT BLUE GENITALS RUIN THE MOVIE JUST BY BEING GAY GIANT BLUE GENITALS. IF YOU LIKE THIS MOVIE YOU ARE HORRIBLE GAY HUMAN BEING AND WILL DIE OF AIDS! I know everyone agrees with me because penises are disgusting and gross!
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Not even funny...
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I am a former comic reader, never read Watchman before and went into the theater blind, not knowing anything about the story or chacters, intentionally so I could see it under fresh eyes.
I liked it ALOT. I loved the opening credits, pure fanboy stuff. As for the story, it took me a little bit of time for me to get into it. I didn't know any of the characters, so I had to rely on the movie to make me care for them. Once I got into it, I was pretty moved, not knowing before hand what to expect. I know the graphic novel is probably better, which I bought this morning and plan on reading it for the first time this weekend. But overall, excellent film. I loved the ending. I was expecting Dr. Manhattan to turn back time or something to save everything, but he didn't. The performances were great, especially with an unknown cast. It had me completely immersed. I plan to see it again sometime after I read the graphic novel. I am sure there are some differences, but THAT IS THE ART OF FILMMAKING. Overall I was pleasantly surprised and very happy with the film. -
It wasn't supposed to be funny! It was an outcry to all who were offended! I beg anyone who hasn't seen it and is planning to do so to avoid it at all costs!!!
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my hangover is lingering
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told us more about his own penis size (or lack of it) than about the movie. It must be really sad to go through life with such a tiny penis.
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And the litmus test of whether the person you're dating is a moron or not. This weekend thousands of closet geeks with hot moronic, Hills watching girlfriends are going to find themselves standing outside the theater after their dates walk out of the film doing their best impressions of Travis Bickle groveling to Cybil Sheppard in TAXI DRIVER. "I didn't know. I thought you would like it...Okay let's go see the kind of movies you like..."
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Spaghetti you degenerate fuck! Stop drinking and maybe you'll understand that alcohol is almost as bad as penises!
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I totally agree with you... They showing I was in, some lady brought her 2 kids, maybe 5 and 3 years old roughly.. Now I'm not preaching here and I'll say that my first movie experience was JAWS, but this was beyond both comprehension and tollerability for little ones to see. Just the amount of guy cock and ass, and limbs being twisted in wrong directions warranted that no kids be allowed..
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although I did find myself wishing I hadn't read the GN first, because I did find myself nit-picking at stuff that wouldn't have bothered me otherwise. It was a really good film, though. I definitely want the full 4 hour version.On a side note, though, it was hilarious to hear the idiots behind me walking out, saying, "Why they gotta make it so complicated, yo?"
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If you happen to read this so far down on the page, please know that this is an adult movie. It's character driven, heavy and serious. Which means, it takes it's time. It's slow. The action is spread throughout the movie. What you've been sold on TV and in the trailer is a fast action punch-em up with people in costumes punching bad guys and a blue good-like guy zapping people. It's not. This movie is not designed to give you an action "high" like Spiderman and Batman. It's different, and to me, it was entertaining and I'll go see it again.
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Yes he is - you have to wait till after the credits though. I hear if the film does well they will write NiteOwlII into the Avengers!
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...With Heavy Metal 2 years from now. Can't wait. People are tools.
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@ Cruel_Kingdom: I wanted to get my thoughts down before I went to sleep, while it was still fresh; In doing so perhaps my arguments were a bit heavy handedly. I did enjoy the movie, pieces of it with glee. Why those particular elements frustrated me is that so much of the film version was so faithful to the comic and the inconsistencies made me think about props, special effects and script issues instead of staying inside the story. If only Zack & co had pushed a bit farther, refrained from some unnecessarily exaggerated violence and split it into 2 sections, it could have been a Watchemn movie even Alan Moore would have been proud of. There would have been no need to change the ending because running time wouldn't be as big of an issue. A lot of the illogic (Ramses II book on desk for example) was, I believe, to speed up the plot. Maybe the Director's cut will restore some holes. Maybe it was, as someone mentioned above, the "soft bigotry of low expectations" and handholding of the non-comic fans. And maybe the set decorator and costume artists could have dirtied up their creations a bit more.
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I think its hilarious how many people pretend to be the biggest fans of the comics just because someone said its the greatest comic ever. It wasn't. It was good. But just because a small group claim it to be the holy grail, doesn't mean that it makes you cool to agree with it. Give it up people. Get some opinions of your own for once in your damned lives. Stop conforming to the world around you. It was a good comic and a good movie. Neither was a life changing experience, and never will be. Hopefully someday you will all finally get a date and learn that its okay to have your own opinions.
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The new Star Trek trailer was really well done.
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Mar 07, 2009 11:56:40 AM CST
BRING YOUR KIDS!! THEYLL LOVE IT!
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
AT LEAST THATS WHAT RETARDED PARENTS WHO WATCH SUPERMARKET SWEEP AND THE LIFETIME CHANNEL THINK!!! HAHAHA PARENTS REACTIONS TO THE RAPE SCENES WAS CLASSIC LAST NIGHT!!
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"This just simply is not fair to those of us who brought our teenagers to the film thinking it was going to be similar to Ironman. Its not - this movie is a horror skin flick with action heros." HAHAHAHAAH IRON MAN.
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Saw Watchmen yesterday at an early showing, so I've had over 24 hours to digest what I saw and it's now time to talk about it... ... and I have a lot to talk about.I make no apologies for the sheer amount I am about to write. I feel that this film, far more than most others, merits detailed discussion. I will be breaking down my thoughts into several "chapters", if you like, partly to make reading and discussion easier for you guys, mostly because my thoughts are arranged along a few different themes. Here goes...WATCHMEN AND MEBefore talking about a single frame of the film, I think it is important to define exactly what my relationship to the comic is. I think far too many people on here base their experience on what they've been TOLD the comic is, what it's MEANT to be (i.e. the greatest comic ever written), rather than forming their own honest opinion of it. This naturally clouds any judgement they have on the film. Time to reset the balance.I have never been a collector of comics. Ever. This has nothing whatsoever to do with any thought on my part that comics are "childish" or not to be taken seriously. I have READ plenty and enjoyed them, but I am not anywhere near as steeped in comic lore as many of you are.Because of this, I really cannot place Watchmen into the context of other comic books it parodies or comments upon, one of the many levels on which it exists. While this might seem to be to my detriment, I find it works to my advantage, as it means I can really view the story on its own merits.It also needs to be said that Watchmen is SO much a creature of its particular time in history. It is not like LOTR (my own "holy grail" of literature), which is quite literally timeless. It is a snapshot of a particular time that has now passed forever into the pages of history. Anyone who read it when it first came out have a TOTALLY different understanding of it to those who read it many years later (which WILL be the majority of you). While I was technically old enough to read it in 1985, I was a young child just starting school in suburban England, so not only would I have not understood it, I would not have understood its social and political context.I actually first read it about three years ago, on the advice of a good friend who HAD read it when it first came out. I enjoyed it very much, particularly the themes it delved into (more on them in the next part), but that is all. It did not change my life. I did not hail it as the greatest masterpiece of western literature, because I do not believe that to be true. It is a very good work, perhaps great, and my one true debt to it is to open my reading up to more comics, but IT IS NOT PERFECT. The book has flaws in my eyes, just as ANY - do you understand me? ANY!!! - book does. Even in my holy grail, LOTR, there are passages I do not like, things I wish had been done differently. Too many people place Watchmen on a pedastal right from the start. I place it where it belongs. On my bookshelf, ready to be read again and again.
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"Yeah, that's right."
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Now, when will someone "adapt" THE LOST GIRLS. Now, there would be a movie. Even Alan Moore would watch that.
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Some parts were utterly brilliant. The opening scene in particular had be thinking "Oh my god I'm actually watching a watchmen movie". But I felt so many scenes had needless fight scenes added to them particularly the fight withthe comedian in the begining. I guess that they wanted to show off that he was a still a hero capable of fighting but I felt the point in the book was that he just kind of gave up and accepted his demise. Also the end where they kept going after Ozy was almost comical. My main thing was that they would do certain parts justice but would never let other parts linger. For instance when Jon first goes to Mars I though this part was done right. But when they did the whole Sally flashbacks I thought that it wasn't properly handled, there needed to be a little bit more fear instilled before the actual attempted rape. To me both Silk Specters were either miscast (Laurie) or misdirected. Particularly in Sally's case I never saw her as this kind of sarcastic bitterness but more mournful, which didn't come across at all. Also the second Mars scene got completely dicked over. Honestly though the entire time I felt this needs to be longer, as in certain scenes needed to be drawn out more. I like the Rorschach and psychiatrist scenes but I think they could have pulled it off just as easily as they did in the comic, again it felt rushed. That to me was the underlying problem they felt they needed to put all this information in only 2 hours and 40 minutes. I think that the directors cut will be very interesting to see, I hope that these parts are addressed. Admittedly I understand why the theatrical version was the way it was. I saw numerous people leave around the 2 hour mark. And my friend who never read the book said he hated it, which honestly I expected. Overall the production on it is amazing the acting for the most part is good, but it was similar to seeing live free and die hard. the entire time I'm watching it I know there is a better version out there and I hope it gets released.
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I loved Rorschach.
The Comedian was nice and Sleazy. Perfect.
I loved the opening credits.
Doc Manhattan's dong was distracting....kinda hypnotizing.
Same with the Wold Trade Canter...only just distracting.
I'm seeing it again next weekend. -
Disturbing, violent, sexy, thought provoking...everything you could want in a film.
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And loved it. The slight change to the ending actually worked out better. I do wish that they did a better job at conveying the general degradation of society that was consistently building before the "attacks" by Dr M, but the main point still gets across. I saw this with my wife, who had some knowledge of the story through me, and a couple of friends who had absolutely no idea what they were getting into. As a talkbacker above quipped, it may have been about talking cats or something for all they knew. Anyhow, out of all four of us, the reaction was unanimously very positive. My two buddies both used the word awesome, and my wife really got it. We talked for a good hour about the thought provoking philosophical messages that the ending conveys. Overall, I could not believe that Snyder actually included all of the background for characters and really did not exclude anything of susbstance from the comic. It may have felt a bit rushed. A few topics may have been glossed over, such as the scenario I spoke of above, as well as Dr Manhattan's perception of time, but again very impressive storytelling by all involved. A+ movie experience in my book.
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If you look very closely at Dr.Manhattan's junk... guess what shape the CGI boys made it! "Here's your squid for fanboy b!ches!"
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Why this backlash against the comics? Is it just a case of wanting to feel superior by being contrary? I don't get people who are all, "I loved the movie, never read the source material, but BECAUSE I loved the movie, FUCK the source material!" Illogical...
The comic series is completely deserving of the esteem in which it's held. If you haven't read it, read it twice. If you've read it, go back and read it again, slowly. It very much rewards re-reading, to the point where you may wind up smacking yourself in the forehead at the brilliance of it.
...The use of foreshadowing, the ironic tension between text and image, the background detail, the use of the panels to comment on the artwork therein, the cross-cutting between scenarios so that distinct scenes wind up subtly commenting on one another and providing context that wouldn't be there otherwise, the comic-within-a-comic and excerpts from Under the Hood, the allusions to texts/songs/mediums/tropes/etc., the complex characterizations, the interactions between various philosophical positions, the fact that every main character serves as an unreliable narrator....There's so much more going on than just the plot. This is a multi-layered narrative in the most literal sense. Ok, that was rambling...but it really is THAT good.
I haven't seen the movie yet because it's the beginning of the month and rent's a bitch, but plan to the first chance I get. Totally different mediums, so I'm only hoping that it works as a movie.
Sad if Sally and Laurie's arc is gutted or just falls flat. The comics walk the fine line between commenting on misogyny and simply depicting it, but I think it's successful. Hopefully the movie is as well. I'll be pretty pissed if Sally is just there to almost get raped by the comedian and add to his character's development and Laurie's just there to be pretty and have sex with people.
Also, why do people think the comedian succeeded in raping Silk Spectre? Ebert even thought that Laurie was conceived this way, and this after two viewings. Did Snyder sleaze it up on that scene? It's pretty quick in the GN, and she's got the same clothes on from when the Comedian walks in to when he is stopped.
Given Snyder's additions to 300, I've wondered how he'd handle that... -
THE THEMES OF WATCHMENThe main thing that drew me to Watchmen, that fuelled my enjoyment of the comic and my subsequent excitement for the movie, was the depth of its underlying themes. So much of literature (in any format) only ever attempts to tell a story, without ever delving deeper into more "philosophical" aspects, shall we say? In the average story, the most important things are the "What" and the "How", as well as occasionally the "When". What really interests me, more than anything else, is the "Who" and, most importantly, the "Why". The "Who" in the case of Watchmen is obviously the characters and they are so deep and so resonant that I will be dealing with them in their own chapter, comparing comic to movie in their depiction, so here I only care about the "Why".Why do the characters do what they do?What drives them?What do their actions say about the human condition?These are the questions that form the heart of Watchmen for me and Moore's answers to these questions are not easy. In fact, he stays so far away from providing easy answers that I honestly believe many people have INSERTED easy answers for their own benefit, choosing to ignore - or not being able to see - the answers that Moore does give.The best example of this insertion of easy answers is the many claims (including on this site) that Watchmen is "morally ambiguous", or "morally murky" or however you want to phrase it. It is not. It is crystal clear in its morality, but gives answers that your average joe simply does not want to hear. The desire to see something as ambiguous when you do not like the answer given is a classic human trait, as it gives you a "get-out clause" should the going get too tough. Britain thought Hitler was "ambiguous" in the 1930s, because the alternative was too horrible to contemplate. In many ways, the reader of Watchmen is 1930s Britain looking at their own Hitler. The answers are all there, if you have courage enough to look.You cannot really use a Hitler analogy without exploring the themes of fascism in Watchmen, which was obviously my intention. It has been noted that "fascism" is an overused word in this day and age, meaning just about anything you want it to mean, but to me it will always mean an individual or select, elitist group forcing their controlling ideals on everyone else without giving those being controlled the opportunity to have any say in the matter. This theme crops up numerous times in Watchmen, but to me the two clearest examples are in the use of Dr Manhattan and Veidt.Dr Manhattan is possibly the tragic hero of fascism, as he did not intend to become what he became and tries at all times to remain passive. Nonetheless, it is through Dr Manhattan that America (representing the elitist group) maintains ideological control over the rest of the world. Nobody can argue against Dr Manhattan as the consequences are too dire to mention, so they have no choice but to go along with it.The flipside of this coin is Veidt, who exerts just as much control, except he is conscious of his actions. Veidt also shows the side of fascism that few choose to look at, that evil actions do not necessarily evolve out of evil intentions. In that sense, what is evil? It is perhaps the greatest philosophical question to ever face humanity, the nature of evil, and on this occasion Moore provides no more answers than anyone else in history. This is NOT moral ambiguity as some have claimed, but more an honest question to the audience of "how do you judge these actions?". In that sense, any ambiguity exists in the reader, not on the page. Someone who values the sanctity of human life would judge Veidt as "evil" regardless of his intentions, but a murderous warmonger would arrive at the same, exact judgement for different reasons. A gross over-simplification I know, but it demonstrates the point.The next theme in Watchmen that really drives me is why these people - with no powers beyond what nature and dedicated training provide, and therefore none of this "great responsibility" garbage that Marvel tries to foist on us - take up this masked mantle. Hollis Mason, seemingly a kindly old man running a shop, makes a key observation (wonderfully kept in the film) that the bad guys dressed up in costumes first, often evading justice in this way, and the advent of costumed crimefighters was in response to this. Some can view this along noble lines of "ensuring justice", but again this is an easy answer. The truth is far closer to "vengeance". Forcing someone to pay for their wrongdoing is the essence of vengeance (and, you could argue, the very legal system itself!) and attempting to give this a more noble sheen is really hiding the true intentions under the surface.Although present in the first generation, the second generation gives us a second reason for why they do what they do. THEY ENJOY IT. Man's ability to take visceral pleasure in its actions is a defining characteristic of our species. Every man, woman and child on the planet is born capable of enjoying an act of violence or evil and it is only our upbringings that condition us not to. These people have broken that conditioning consciously and decided to ingulge what modern society deems their "baser" instincts. They are not misfits in this regard, they are you and me, only they have made a choice that we have not.This inherent attraction to violence embedded in our very genetics is the greatest theme of Watchmen. In Moore's eyes, we are all headed for annihilation. Time may have proved he pointed his finger at the wrong parties, but the finger will continue to point until one day it rests on the right person. Our wish to destroy each other is so strong that destruction can only ever be inevitable.This is what makes Veidt so special, that he recognises this desire, but DOESN'T share it. He wants to break humanity out of this cycle, but he can't, despite the seeming success of his actions. He can't because not all of humanity WANTS to break this cycle, in fact very few do. The Comedian did not want to break the cycle and wept, for possibly the first time in his life, when confronted with even the POSSIBILITY that it might end. Rorsharch chooses death rather than an end to violence, deluding himself with notions of justice. Even the New Frontiersman only play along to notions of peace, ultimately yearning for a return to the way things were. Rorsharch's journal, though never made explicit by Moore, is their way back. An excuse to undo heaven because the inmates preferred the hellish prison they had constructed around themselves. The search for Utopia may be a human dream, but not all dreams are welcome if they turn to reality. Even if Utopia was possible, no matter how many people embraced it, there would be enough who rejected it that heaven would fall.As I said, no easy answers.I'm going to take a break for dinner and return in a couple of hours for part III, where I'll actually start talking about the movie...
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I enjoyed the movie. Visually, it was a work of art. But I agree with Alan Moore's statement that the comic was unfilmable. To me, Watchmen's strength was in the characterization he gave to not just the main players, but the bit players like Molach and Hollis. By cutting those out of the picture, Watchmen lost much of its strong base. Is the movie on par with the graphic novel? Hell no. Is it a good adaptation of the novel, yes, yes it is. Will I see it again? Probably. Bring on the Directors Cut
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I'm pretty sure that people who browse AICN know that this movie is not for kids, most of the people here have read the comic. And Batman was about an action high? Dark Knight was a better movie than the movie of Watchmen.
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A couple of million people saying it's the best comic ever is a small group? "It was a good comic and a good movie. Neither was a life changing experience, and never will be." stop trying to say it like it's fact you fucking idiot, how the fuck do you know it wasn't a life changing experience? Personally, I think Sinestro Corps War is the best comic story ever, but don't go saying "It isn't this and it isn't that" you fucking sad cunt. And what the fuck is this "get a date" shit, somehow everyone who thinks that Watchmen is the best comic ever are single guys? Fuck yourself.
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Saw it in Imax, loved it with some caveats. Not really worth re-exploring the points others have made and debated, but there is one I'd like to make, just about the nature of watching adaptations. When you read a book, especially one as dense and compelling as Watchmen, your perspective is that of a reader. You can stop to ponder, re-read a page or 10, close the book and go pee, and generally have an experience much more colored by your own reactions, especially when you consider it later, with the added perspective of memory. When you see a film, the point is to bring you into a shared, real-time-ish reality with the characters. You cannot stop to ponder (as long), and you are not usually asked to bring a lot to it. One thing I truly loved about Snyder's movie was that he did ask us to bring ourselves into it more than most films and certainly more than most adaptations. Those of us who have read the book got more out of it, I do not think there is any question. Part of the reason for that is we have read, pondered, re-read, etc. Other adaptations of comic material and even Literature are very often made as commercial enterprises. "If you loved the book, you will buy the movie." Harry Potter, LOTR and many others--fine films though they may be--hit me that way. Snyder respected the material, with or without Moore's blessing, and he respected us as co-experiencers, and he had the guts to change the ending and put his own signature on his own film (squid or no, he earned that right through making every other frame as faithful as he could). Loved the result and salute him for his effort. Cannot wait to see Black Freighter!
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that in the opening credits that it's implied that Night Owl saves Bruce Wayne's parents? The background is Gotham Opera House and there are Batman posters plastered all over the walls. Hahahahahaha!!! I love those little details in this film.If you want to see for yourself, the company that edited the opening title sequence put the video up online: http://motionographer.com/theater/yuco-the-watchmen-titles/
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What are your thoughts on the use of the songs in the comic and their meaning?
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I totally missed that, your the man for pointing it out.
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I've read the book 5 times, my wife doesn't know/doesn't care about it, but saw it with her last night, she loved it and understood it perfectly. People clapped at the end, it really is a faithfull adaptation, I actually liked the new ending better that the one in the book. Great movie...
oh! and the think about Archie jeezing after the Nite Owl/Silk Spectre fuck? it's in the book... so shut the fuck up haters... -
although a very, very, very good movie, it's still not better than The Dark Knight, but it's just a knotch below.
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A BIG FUCK YOU!!! to Warner Brothers and to our Ratings board MTRCB here in the Philippines, Loads and loads of WatchMen fans including me of course
will not be able to see it on IMAX!
Again FUCK ALL OF YOU!!! -
Your hate for people with good taste in movies is awesome. Have fun in the asylum.
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Jesus Christ there is enough fanboy estrogen filling talkbalk anyone who dares view it will grow tits and a vagina.
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what the fuck are you talking about? because i'm saying shit that people on here are also saying. fucking idiot.
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I'm glad you enjoyed that little tidbit of trivia.
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..And it's wooden acting, butchered dialog, choppy editing and slow motion hyper reality aesthetics made the unfilmable into pretty much the unwatchable. Rorscharks interrogation scene was (sadly) ruined and that Owl Ship sex romp was no more then a million dollar porn scene--complete with a "fiery" money shots.
Go back to making car commercials and taco bell spots Zack, One Michael Bay is already bad enough, we don't need two. -
Do they show it in the movie? I can't remember if they did. In the comic, she gets it from the body of a dead cop when Jon takes her to NYC. Maybe that will be in the director's cut...
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and didn't remember the ending, not even the squid. I saw the movie last night and thought it was excellent. Good job Zack!
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It's distracting in the movie because its out of context. He's just naked in situations where people aren't naked. That's why it's distracting. The reason nobody's complaining about the nudity during the sex scene isn't just because it's female nudity, it's because that's where nudity is typically SUPPOSED to be. If you think about it it's actually a bit odd that the only time we don't see the big blue cock is when it's being put to use on Laurie.
I'm just trying to give an explanation for why it is actually legitimate for people to bring it up and be distracted by it. I'd guess it's not so much the sex thing as the context thing with people.
And speaking of context, shouldn't there be a ban on the same song being used more than once for tv or movie purposes? Or can we at least ban the fucking hallelujah song? Off the top of my head i can think of three examples of it's use now. Watchmen, Shrek (of all things), and some episode of Scrubs. I'm not sure but i'd be willing to bet that Nip/Tuck used it somewhere too. The only exception to the rule would be any music composed by NIN. That fits every occasion. -
Thanks for proving my point. You unneccesary cursing in my general direction is exactly the kind of crap that someone who wants everyone to think he is the coolest comic boy ever would do. Thanks for that, because you are trying so hrd to be one of the cool kids, but are obviously still getting picked last in gym class. Ha!
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Ok,If you show both genitalia in a sex scene it becomes a porno. He's naked in the comic book too so its ok to show some penis in an artful fashion. If anyone has any beef with this movie, I fail to understand. We don't live in a system where it is plausible to keep all the source material the same in any medium turned to film, for the simple fact that mass audiences will not get it. Although, it would be nice to see a day when studios can turn out big budget flicks that are identical to their literary counterparts, we simply don't live in a time where that is possible, especially when you invest 200+ Million dollars into something made for an audience that isn't exclusively for it base. I had the same misgivings with Transformers when it first came, not being true to G1 canon, but one simply has to have some vision here for how the world really is and works. That being said, the film is very good and in my humble opinion captures the spirit of the source material and is probably as true to it as humanly possible. Above all, let's don't forget it was thought-provoking entertainment and fun as well, at least for me anyways. Yu can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time
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I think Laurie got the gun from the cop in the prison escape sequence.
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Im sorry for all the hyperbola thats mentioned here, the film was a total disappointment. You get the feeling we're only brushing the surface.
It's a very slick looking film, with good quality CG effects for the most part. However, it lacks heart or any emotional depth.
It ultimately takes itself too serious. A more coherent storyline and greated emotional depth wouldn't have hurt. The ending was disapointing all that lead up ended in a hollow feeling at the end of the movie.
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That a lot of the post here are entirely about Doc Manhattan's junk. I thought that it was amazing that they stuck that close to the look of the character and didn't shy away from what could (and appears to be) a needless distraction.
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omg prsequel! -
As a guy who read the comics when originally published monthly, I was pretty happy with this adaptation.
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One of the most uncomprimising rewarding pictures in some time. Demands multiple viewings -- which it will have from me.
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You done good man.
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The changed ending was not a deal-breaker, Ozy was better than I expected, Laurie was not as bad as I had read in other reviews, Nixon's nose looked like a dick, Rorschach in prison rocked hard.
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No one here gives a shit about your long winded "reviews".
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"It's not going to stop."
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Me now!!
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Mar 07, 2009 3:20:00 PM CST
Probably LIked The Movie More Than The Comic, Which Isn't Much A
by darkknight37
I'm one of the few comic book heads that doesn't bow down to this series. I always thought the first couple of issues were great, then Alan Moore just started sucking his own dikk till the over-worded climax with Ozymandias. The story always came off very selfish to me, if that makes any sense.
With that being said, the movie left me feeling the exact same way. I felt some of the excitement was gone because I was mouthing lines as they were being said on the screen. I'm starting to see a direct flaw with direct adaptations: it leaves you dissecting a movie far more than normal, instead of just enjoying something for the first time.
Like the comics, my most cherished aspects came in the forms of The Comedian and Rorsharch. Every scene they were in had my full attention, compared to the mars scene and the ending discussion that had me nodding in and out of sleep.
I enjoyed it as much as the comic, the added cheese of it being a movie was evened out by some of the best choreographed fight scenes I had seen in a while.
Anyone else gonna spank it to Silk Specter tonight?
Look, if you read the comic and you have a based opinion on that, prepare to carry it over to this. The only thing that may change in your opinion is how you felt the material was treated in certain aspects. I despised the comic ending, and I didn't care for this ending either. I grade this like I grade the comic, which is a 7 out of 10.
I truly believe non-comic book fans will either be lost, bored or have a hard time taking a lot of this movie seriously. -
Thought it was an incredibly well done interpretation of the graphic novel.The movie ending actually makes more sense than the comic book's ending.
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...was intentionally hilarious, right? I definitely thought it was but I hear other people aren't so sure. (reposted from the dupont talkback -no answers forthcoming over there).)
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I enjoyed watching it a great deal, but Malin Ackerman was absolutely horrendous and dragged down every scene she was in. Other than that, the central flaw is that of any near miss adaptation. The graphic novel, to be pretentious, is like an intricately constructed grandfather clock. Trying to make it into a movie is like trying to shove all the workings of a grandfather clock into a wristwatch. There's just too much there to be able to make it work, and if you magically can make it work, a wristwatch will still never be as impressive as a grandfather clock. But I had a good time, and I plan on seeing it again.
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Robert Redford runs for president, not Ronald Reagan! Other than that .. great flick.
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I enjoyed the movie esp the alternate history stuff-Big Bloo Guy in 'Nam knocking off the Cong in '71, Comedian as Badgeman at Dealey '63, etc. All good. The whole Nixon stuff was Hideously bad--someone said it looked like a Spitting image Puppet. No kidding. C'mon guys, what-you couldn't spend another 15 bucks on CGI F/X for his and Guguino's age-makeup? Some of that was just bad. Ditto Kissenger, though he wasn't quite Paul Sorvino as Henry K bad, I suppose. Never read the comics. Not so sure after wading thru the movie that I care too either, squid or bloo nukes or whatever. I enjoyed plenty of what was there-Horschack, Nite Owl (boys he looked like Chevy Chase did c. '85! paging FLETCH!),the whole Mars thing-but there were things missing, too. That fight in the baddies layer at the end was not so great. Ozzy looked goofy. I liked the Big Kat though. You may hate me, but I think I'd prefer the fake toon series that Watchman Spoof you've seen was 'advertising'. 'I'm Nutty!' Words to live by. Two More: Giant Robots.
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Yeah, that's what it looks like: Nite Owl saves the Waynes! One of the other posters in the background: Die Fliedermaus. Good stuff!
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That's how one of my friends put it. It's a very polarizing experience, but one I happened to love.The new ending worked far better than I ever expected. The changes, in general, didn't bother me nearly as much as I thought they would.Jackie Earle Haley put himself in the geek pantheon with his portrayal of Rorshach. Flawless. Mesmerizing. Best actor in the film.In short: Freaking loved it, changes, excesses and all.
Oh... And everyone complaining about Archie's post-coital flame spurt needs to go back and read the GN again, because its in there too. -
WHAT? Dude, what are you talking about?
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Cerebus the Aardvark should be his next movie. You know it's true.
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this will give Warner Brothers motivation to make a movie about old fucked up superheroes that the public actually cares about..Bring on "Kingdom Come"!!!
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... or the worst. I cant decide which... I liked it but I dont know if I enjoyed it JUST because its so much like the comic and nothing more... Problem is I really dont see those who are unfamiliar with the comic understanding and liking the film and thats a huge flaw. If you are going to adapt a comic or book into a movie you should make it accessible so that EVERYONE can "get it". You shouldnt HAVE to read the comic to understand the movie. Also, with most comic adaptations people always complain about the differences between the original material and the film versions... This movie might have been TOO much like the comic and maybe for that reason, it doesnt really work on a whole... I will definitely watch it multiple times but I really dont know if its a masterpiece or a piece of shit...
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HOT!
that chick is the hottest
I have friends who walked out of the movie and called me to cuss me out for telling them to see it.
LOL
And I still say...better than The Dark Night. I've only re-watched The Dark Night once and fast forwarded to see the joker scenes and then turned it off.
When Doc lands on Mars...GOOSEBUMPS
Though, I can see how people unfamiliar with it may hate it.
But I loved it! -
I wouldn't have had a problem if Snyder had found a better, smoother way to move the story along even if it meant changing a few more things. I'm sad that others may not be able to fully grasp the themes cause they're too busy trying to figure out what's going on.
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not caring what's going on.
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Visually well crafted. I thought the music choices were good, save for the score. I don't think Tyler Bates has the goods. It was very close to the comic, in my opinion. I never cared for the Squid ending, I thought this one was a little more fitting. Commence with bitch-slapping me.
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with Doc and Viedt should have been in the movie. "Nothing ever ends."
tiiiiiiight -
... Meh. It started well, tailed a bit in the middle and ended as a bit of a damp squib. I'll have a watch of the extended edition as it might make it feel more whole. it just seemed to lack any direction in the middle and meandered along.
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The Nixon makeup was distracting. The nose was massive! And Malin Ackermans performance was dreadful. She entirely missed the point.
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The original series was a product of its time, and frankly I enjoyed the Wildcards series much more than Watchmen having finally read the comic I heard so much about just this year.
Odd that not one word has been said about how this movie is coming out at the very moment when the world we knew and America's place in that world is teetering on collapse.
A massive attack that changes the political landscape, society coming apart at the seams, and at the top of it all substitute the super-rich for the superpowered and we are practically living the Watchmen now.
And please, a giant squid. Who the fuck cares.
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Saw a screening of the full film last night, a while ago i saw about 40 minutes worth of footage.
This movie is simply awful. I'm really surprised at the number of fans of the original Moore GN that are supporting this crap.
This is what happens when you give the material to a fanboy. Zach Snyder doesn't know how to genuinely create drama, nor does he have any idea as to what to do with actors. The performances are a romp, the material is absolutely not, Malin Akerman reciting lines from Alan Moore's work is like listening to an brat with the i.q. of 70 reciting lines from Hamlet. Snyder will throw in exactly what we see in the GN, throw in more violence, really shitty fight sequences, completely out of place classic music that attempts to be satirical and ironical. Pop culture references that are there for the sake of demanding some kind of cynical authenticity that Snyder doesn't fundamentally understand. When this happens its like listening to an eight year old reciting a joke from Dr. Strangelove, who doesn't understand the depth and satire of what he is saying, but thinks the good German Doctor looks funny, so the joke must be funny. The serious scenes in the film are handled terribly and are ultimately offensive, the child abduction, the murdered pregnant woman, the near rape. These are filmed as flippant and fluff. Through the eyes of an adolescent child playing a x-box360. Snyder can't direct traffic, he doesn't show depth, and he sure as shit doesn't care or know about anything in the story outside things and people looking "cool".
Snyder only understands textures, it's a paint by numbers film that has thick black bars in between the lines of the colors that overshadow what the actual picture is about. It's like the scene in Rushmore when we see children putting on a play version of Apocalypse Now.
Giving material to someone who only really loves the material doesn't mean they know how the fuck to handle it. It doesn't say anything other than "hey, ain't this cool?"
The sex scene was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. By this point i was bored to the point of suicide by this film, and i absolutely love the source material.
A monumental disappointment, I wanted to like it, i wanted snyder to grow up. he didn't. He is still a walking XBox360.
2/10 -
http://tinyurl.com/caoyul
Really was one of the best parts of the movie...though not THE best. -
Night Owl II killed the Comedian. Its hidden deep in the subtext of the GN, and I could see it in the movie as well. Heres a clue - The owl is the symbol for Moloch - a God or person who demands costly sacrifices. And rolls around in everything owl like. Rorsach is set up at Moloch's place - See?
Ultimately, Dan Dreiberg is in league with Veidt, and in the end just goes about with his wonderful life w his new piece of ass by his side. You can see it more in the comic, but I think its in the movie as well.
Discuss-- -
http://tinyurl.com/caoyul I enjoyed the movie. It was far from perfect, but I have to take into account how close they did get and all the was so fucking close, if not perfect in it.
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I'm back. Yes, it's ZeroCorpse, back from the dead after an undeserved death at the hands of some whiny, thin-skinned person who couldn't take some criticism. Don't know who... Don't care.
I popped in to say that Watchmen was... Good. Not amazing. Not perfect. Just... Good.
I think it's as faithful and true to the original as they could be in a theatrical release, and all involved should be commended. They clearly had a love for the work, and it shows.
That's it. As the former (and always) ZeroCorpse, and the former Sherlock_Holmes, I'd like to say that it's been fun around here, and I'm sorry I didn't get to say a proper "bye" to the other AICN old-timers who have been posting here longer than *some* of the AICN staff members have been around. You guys (and I) were the lifeblood of this place for years, and when they kill off the old-timers so readily, all they really have left are Harry's sometimes-reviews, Herc's favorite TV shows, and ScriptGirl. (No offense to Merrick, Capone, Alexandra, et. al... But we don't see you all that much, y'know. If we did, it would be better for the site.)
And a lesson to all: If you insult Script Girl, or harp on Herc's obsession with a certain producer, you'll be unceremoniously axed. If I had known the new regime were such wimps, I'd have worn kid gloves while criticizing them.
Enjoy, kiddies. Maybe I'll be back, maybe they'll nix me again. Who knows? I'll be around. -
I liked it but wasn't blown away. There are some great sequences and I thought all of the characters were great. I didn't really care for the ending, as now I feel that the world will be against Dr. Manhattan, when that wasn't what happened in the comic. My standout performances were Rorschach and Dan Dreiberg. I thought they were great. I didn't have a problem with Silk Spectre II or Veidt. Just the ending left me thinking the book ending was better. And some parts in the comic were cut, but if they didn't, it would be a 5 hour movie.
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things could have been much worse http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/04/08/keanu-gives-crudup-a-watchmen-blessing-for-dr-manhattan/
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I've been a long time reader of this site, and this is the first time I've ever posted anything. My wife and I just got back from seeing this, and........I'm not really sure how I feel about it. Let me preface these comments by saying that I'm a long-time comics collector, I read the graphic novel numerous times, and I loved every panel of it. I agree COMEPLETELY with everyone here in that Jackie Earl Haley owns the role of Rorschach, and that Malin Ackerman was the worst part of the movie. How did she ever win this part?! I've seen better acting in pornos. Anyway, the movie was VERY faithful to the tone and spirit of the original series. I also have no problem with the new ending; in fact, I'm not really sure how the original calamari ending would have played out if put in. Some things just don't translate that well to film, and I think the squid was one of them. Sorry pro-squid guys, but I think the squid would have elicited laughter. As it was, my wife was distracted by Jon's long, blue dong dangling all over the place. I am also wiser now knowing that my buns are just as cute as his according to the missus, although my complexion is more on the white side. Now, my balls have been known to get a little blue at times, but that's just a result of my wife having her period for an extended amount of time. Oh yeah, the movie. Like I said, I'm not really sure how I feel about it. Everything was there, but it just didn't keep me rivited to the screen. In defense of the movie, I think it's not supposed to be that type of movie. It's a mystery for God's sake, not a geek's wet dream about giant robots duking it out while Megan Fox gets all sweaty and bends over car hoods. I don't know, I think I'm going to sleep on it, and see how I feel tomorrow.
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So you think you were the "life blood" of AICN? Please fuck straight off you wank.
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Everyone knows I'm the lifeblood of AICN. C'mon. Doesn't every talkbacker think that?
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anyone who liked the comic but didn't like the movie is too picky. What more do you want (besides the squid)?
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yes please
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...were brilliant. The use of Dylan was stroke of genius. At that point I thought, 'even if the movie sucks...this is one of the best opening sequences I've ever seen..and it actually serves as plot points for the story'. The ending credits, however, with a screamo version of Dylan's best closing track, Desolation Row, was so pastiche. Really Snyder? We couldn't just have an 11 minute credit closing with the actual version? Failed attempt of being edgy and adapting to current trends.
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Mar 07, 2009 5:43:37 PM CST
I've been reading comics since the 80s and I've never read Watch
by brannagins law
... and I loved the movie. While that will infuriate most of you you need to know that the movie has made me want to read it. The main problem for me is that as an artist I could never get into it, or I should say actually finish it. God knows I've tried to get through it but it's just too dated for me. I can actually feel the anger running through a lot of you out there as you read this. I'm gonna give it another go after seeing the movie because I'm sure I will find the depth to the characters and story all of you are bitching about as missing. Maybe when I'm done reading it (in a month) I'll actually hate the movie too. :)
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I thought the eyeliner was a throwback to Egyptian culture?
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I've read the GN and I thought parts were a bit off, but they did an incredible job with this movie. If you didn't like it chances are you didn't read the GN before you watched the movie or you're fanatic about the comic and you expected complete, perfect translation. Wilson, Haley, and Morgan delivered awesome performances. Wilson and Haley captures their characters perfectly. I enjoyed it a lot.
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Wow. Brilliant. No complaints at all, I'm shocked. Make-up, wang, dodgy music, squid, news stand, etc...
Who cares... freakin' Watchmen, in the cinema... Yeah! -
With even more trout-slapping footage!
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Mar 07, 2009 6:22:47 PM CST
I thought it was a grand tribute to the fans of the comic
by crashbarbarian
but for most of the average movie goers who had no clue about watchmen and were expecting spiderman or ironman... i think were not happy. WHO CARES!!! I loved it, i love that it felt like watching the comic book... i can't believe how faithful they were to the book in so many ways... it was an exact (minus a few details and the squid)addaptation from the book. Thank you zach for being a fan and respecting the fans.
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i loved it, i really did. can't believe some people said it was boring..i was not bored for a second..
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i can't think of the guys name and don't feel like looking it up... but man did he nail it exactly like the comic book... freaking exactly!!!!
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i can't think of the guys name and don't feel like looking it up... but man did he nail it exactly like the comic book... freaking exactly!!!!
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and your right he did nail it...and silk spectre as well..HA HA
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Oscar nom for Haley? Best supporting actor?
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After the movie has marinated in my mind a bit, all I can think about is the superhero sex scenes. That's not a bad thing at all.
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Loved the effects. Rorschach was dead on and just bad ass! the Doc was creepy as hell in his own ways. Veidt was great in his part. Ackerman did fine in my book. One of the best movies ive seen in recent times. Watchmen for best picture next year!
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Had Nothing to do with the movie but at the theater I saw last night. There was about 20 kids under 14 with parents some as young as likely as 7 or 8. Is the mainstream so screwed up that just because its a comic book it means its kids viewing to some people. One mother got up and left about 15 minutes in and dragged her son out of the film. made enough noise that it disrupted things.
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Sweet. Just read an interview on comic book resources.com
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20332
This is cool news aint it *Nudge* *Nudge* -
Funny thing is though when I saw My Bloody Valentine 3-D I was sitting next to a woman who had two kids (a boy and a girl) that were no older than 8 or 9. But they all stayed even after the extended 3-D nude scene. (Although after the film was over I heard the mother mutter to the boy, "Maybe that wasn't the best movie to take your sister to see!"
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jackie gets my vote patrick wilson is spot on as night owl2 aswel
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Thank you for your comments and you are entitled to my opinion. However, I am also entitled to mine, surely. If I cannot express it on a talkback, where exactly am I supposed to express it?I also apologise for having an opinion that is thoughtful and considered and cannot be summed up in one word. Perhaps if I just said "good", or "bad", you might be happy, but I prefer to express my entire opinion, rather than just a quick summation, using the English language to its full capabilities.However, I am surprised to hear that you speak for every talkbacker here. I thought they were all (well, at least mostly!) intelligent people with their own minds who were perfectly capable of forming their own opinions. Obviously I was wrong and you are their lord and master. Sorry to be the black sheep escaping your pack. I should warn you that there are several other black sheep who have escaped your overriding control, evidenced by the fact that some have valued my opinion and held exciting and detailed debates with me.With your permission, I'd like to get back to my thoughts...
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A flawed masterpiece. Possibly the worst best film I've ever seen. If that makes any sense. I will be watching this film for the rest of my life. It's better than The Dark Knight. Sorry, but you know it's true.
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No one has mentioned 'The Architects of Fear' as the likely reference that that TV bit in the film probably references.
Scientists genetically alter Robert Culp's character in an attempt to create the same world unifying menace Veit is going for. -
I would of loved more Hollis Scenes. Like the flashbacks especially the balacony scene with Doc Manhatan or the plastic breast scene in the auto shop. I would of loved more Bernard's but guess that will be in the Black Freighter DVD? Bernards got screwed just one scene with the wave engulfs them. I wanted more Rosarch origin especially the stuff about the mask and the death of the mafia daughter. Soundtrack was great only song that felt weird was 99 Luft Balloons.
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Could the Silk Spectre costume be the new Leia Slave Gold Bikini for fanboys to ask girlfriends to dress up in. yeah baby call me Nite Owl
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...But I'll never watch Two Towers and especially Return Of The King ever again. Snyders a better film maker than Jackson. I also thought the film was just as good as the book, but both suffer being Alan Moore originated, making them cold and lifeless, yet very clever intellectual demonstrations. That said, the filmed Doc Manhattan sequance is better than anything in the book. I still don't get the Ackerman criticisms. Shes fine. The character is weak, both in the book and the film, and in the film its compounded by giving her several, and at least one major, emotional scene that is completely unwarranted because the material leading up to it has been excised. But her performance? Good. At least it wasn't Katie Holmes.
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Rosarachs shrink. Would of loved a scene with him and his wife and how counselling Rosarch tore apart his life and oh yeah the lesbian cab driver and girlfriend getting into a fight before Squidy er Manhataan bomb
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for the movie because it's all about imminent nuclear war, which is what the movie is kinda all about.
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Actually, its been mentioned a dozen times on this talkback already. It's not a reference to that episode. Moore, as stated many times previous, learnt about the episode from a friend after he had finished writing that part of the book, and had gibbons include a nod to it in the art work.
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Wanted More Clock and Nixon and War Room Sucked Otherwise id give that sonvabitch 9/10
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Never knew that about the song. *Hands you some money for your great soap*
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Viagra wasnt invented to the late 90's but I would of laughed at a Veidt Viagra commerical when poor Dan couldnt git yer done first time. Guess some of the Veidt commericals were done by amateur youtube submissions
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I think I can say that without hyperbole.
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the fighting and sound effects along with it is a TOTAL rip off of the Matrix!!! 10th anniversary!!!
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...Anyone complaining about the sex scene or the big blue cock are immature little fat kids. Seriously, half of the retarded audience I was with started gigggling like little girls. Fucking hell, imagine how much giggling you will have to do when you actually have to put your cock in a vagina.
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It was better than I thought it would be. It did not feel like 2 hrs and 40 mins. Actually felt a little rushed, so I'm sure the director's cut will be even better. Dr. Manhattan's mouth was a little distracting; it was just too CG, but it was better than most CG characters. It just shows that CG still hasn't reached the totally realistic level. There is so much going on in this movie, but my dad, who has never read the GN, followed everything just fine. Nice job, Zack.
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I didn't hate it or love it... I give it a C... the awkward sex scene... the bad musical choices... the horrible acting. The only person who really shined was Jackie Earle Haley.
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And you are..?
Seriously. Who the fuck are you? Never seen you before, kiddo. Now, if you were some of the guys I was referring to, like Ebonic Plague, for example, I'd be slightly hurt. However, since you're some newb fuck that just wandered by here lately, forgive me if your critique doesn't cut me any more than a blade of grass.
You see, back in the early days, we had some good conversations on here and shared some decent ideas. We had some classic talkbacks, and yes, there were a few of us who drove the conversation or presented decent ideas (even memes) that stuck. The site was a fun place to be because the guys who were here back then were a fun crowd, with quick wit, love of film, and skin thick enough to take a joke.
In recent years, the site became filled with a whole lot of new guys who just come here to pick fights and spam the talkback. In the 90s, Moriarty banned almost everybody- Even us old talkbackers- and we all jumped back in with different identities until Doc Pazuzu granted us all our names back, and undid Mori's reign of terror (and Mori became one of the best writers on AICN after all that, too.)
We WERE the lifeblood of this place, because we were the majority of the talkbackers in those days. We set the tone. Call it arrogance if you want, but since a lot of those guys disappeared, the quality of the talkbacks has dropped and the site's direction changed quite a bit.
I'm not belittling you because I've never heard of you. I'm sure you're a clever lad. I'm just saying that you really shouldn't be so quick to criticize when it doesn't seem like you were even there, to begin with.
And if you were there, you must not have made much of an impression. Even FishyCunt, annoying as he could be, said enough worthwhile to stand out in my memory. You? Not so much.
Have a nice day, kid. -
I hear lots of people complaining about the music. Half of the songs were directly referenced in the book. And the one used most brilliantly (opening credits) wasn't. People are bitching about Hallelujah (used FOR comedic effect) and All Along the Watchtower (crucial for that scene, as mentioned in the book). The only one I'm iffy on is the Sound of Silence, because that is already "owned" by another film. But I loved the music. Even that My Chemical Romance cover is growing on me slightly.
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Lets face it, the reason why anyone would see dark knight more than once is because of the joker and the way his philosophy plays out throughout the film breaking everyone further and further down until batman must become the bad guy to save the city. it was well written and even better acted. watchmen plays on an "end of the world" scenario and for that fact alone is saturated with meaning of life questions and answers. But I dont think I need to watch it again. I get it. The only thing that matters is rorschach's answer and that is honesty. the truth. even if it means sending the world back into the horrible state it was in at the beginning of the film. Great story well written and a better than average time at the theatres. Id say Watchmen=Dark Knight.
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this should have been split into 3 90 minute movies, this whole flick felt G-rated, 99 percent of it was for kids and 1 percent so gory and over the top that it comically took me out of the film. The nixon stuff was unnecessary and horrible the monstrous makeup was distracting and made me feel like I was watching some MTV movie award parody. It was too damn long for the story they were getting across, but it did look great, too bad all the people around me yawning and snoring distracted the hell out of me.
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It makes me a bad person, I know, but I am kind of angry at the haters this time around. I was angry at the beat-down some people wanted to put on this film, even before I saw it. I just got back from seeing it on Imax, and although I can understand that you might not like it, I can't understand how you can fail to respect the effort here. I thought it was magnificent. I was stupefied that Snyder got someone to give him $100 million to make a film that concedes as little as this one does to conventional filmmaking. "Waahhh! I thought that a musical cue was too on the nose!" What the fuck is wrong with you people?
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...My thoughts exactly. There is alot of genuine flaws with the movie, but once you got to that image of Manhattan floating in the lotus position over the surface of Mars, I thought "When the fuck do you ever get to see this kind of film making on the big screen, from a major studio?". It's fucking sad that this film is getting hammered by supposed film lovers. The general populace will scratch their heads, tell their friends it sucks and go back to Paul Blart. And you fucking haters are going to help neuter mainstream cinema for good. If this flops, we can kiss goodbye to a new big screen Heavy Metal or Black Hole (No suprised that Snyder is involved in those productions along with Fincher.) Oh well, enjoy your mediocrity.
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THE CHARACTERS OF WATCHMENOne of the most enduring aspects of Watchmen is the rich and detailed characters involved. Let's not waste time (apparently I do that...) and get right into how well these characters have made it to the screen.RORSHARCH Where else to start except with the main man? Rorsharch is right up there with Gollum in terms of best-loved characters of the "geek". His views and actions are extreme, but they also speak to every time any one of us has felt a little pang of hate at the world that has wronged us. He merely takes these feelings to their logical conclusion.Jackie Earl Haley's performance as Rorsharch is easily the biggest triumph in the entire movie. It would have been so easy for an actor to merely portray the tics and mannerisms straight from the book without delving into the man himself, but Haley is not that kind of actor. He embodies Rorsharch completely, giving us full view of his pained, uncompromising world view every time we briefly see his eyes. Even when masked, you always feel Rorsharch in a way that even Moore and Gibbons, great though they are, simply couldn't convey within the limitations of static images on paper. If a film was judged solely on its best performance, Watchmen would be an all-time classic.DAN DREIBERG Dan is supposed to be the "normal" superhero, the one we can most relate to, but I've always sensed something darker beneath the surface. The element of enjoying what he does, of getting a thrill out of it, has always given an uneasy balance with the desire to do the right thing. Patrick Wilson balances these two sides of Dan expertly throughout the movie, showing Dan as an essentially moral person (wounded outrage at the Comedian firing on a crowd), while still giving him that release of enjoyment when he is able to convince himself that "they deserve it" (the alley fight). It's not a showy performance, but it was never a showy part.ADRIAN VEIDT Many people have commented unfavourably on Matthew Goode's performance as Veidt, but I think this criticism is somewhat harsh. Veidt as a character has always been most vividly defined by his background (the Alexander/Egypt references), but these flashbacks have no visceral or visual basis at all (unlike Rorsharch's or Jon's) and as such only so much can make it into the film. Without it, Veidt becomes a cold and aloof character, so it is perhaps only fitting that Goode gives a cold and aloof performance. He may be a weaker character physically than what was on the page, taking something away from the irony of the square-jawed seemingly-all-American being the bad guy, but I feel it adds even more to the emphasis of his intellect over his actual physical powers. A good performance, but not a great one.DR MANHATTAN Most talk about Billy Crudup's performance has centred on the blue cock of doom. I just laugh at this, as it says far more about the sexual hang-ups of Christian society than a whole library of books ever could. Getting back to real issues, Crudup's performance is good underneath the CGI and he does a passable job of conveying Jon's disconnectedness from humanity, but I feel he was not helped by a script that dumbed down the more scientific content as well as removing much of the poetic musings (no "the photograph is in my hand"). The whole essence of Jon is that he finds poetry in science, so to remove both seems like unnecessary pandering. He clearly gets the character and should be commended for this, but somehow I was expecting more.LAURIE Malin Ackerman has probably come under the fiercest criticism and I can see why, but again I think this criticism is misplaced. To me, Laurie has never been a deep character. I don't mean that as a slight against Moore, I mean that she is deliberately written thin. She is an honest character with a rich emotional vein and greater strength than even she realises, but she has none of the sublety or nuance of, say, Rorsharch or even Dan. Ackerman does a solid enough job that the performance did not grate for me, but I would have personally liked a little more punch in the emotional moments, particularly the end of the Mars scene.THE COMEDIAN Jeffrey Dean Morgan is the other unqualified success of this film (after Haley). His Comedian is everything I thought it would be and more, toning down some of the more gleefully amoral moments to show a genuine sadness lurking behind those eyes. I've always understood that he "got the joke", but Morgan's performance made me think for the first time that perhaps he didn't want to get it, that he resented who he was and what he knew, but also accepted that it was too late for him to change what his own actions had made him. From the opening scene, my understanding of who the Comedian was became enhanced and enriched by Morgan's performance. I know this film won't win any acting Oscars next February, it's just not that type of film, but dammit if it doesn't at least deserve two nominations!As for the minor characters, I thought Carla Gugino was ok but nothing special as Sally Jupiter, merely performing the part as written without ever really delving into what could be some very complex characterisation. In a way, I wish they'd used either an older actress or two different ones, as the make up is horrible. Nothing like the make up on Nixon, though! My god is that bad! The performance for Nixon is at best caricature as well, but at least he fulfils the function he is meant to fulfil. The remainder of the performances (The Psychiatrist, Hollis Mason) do not really register and I don't think they really will until the Director's Cut, so I won't comment here.
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Well I just got back from seeing this thing. I loved the book, and I really could not care if the squid was in or out, as long as it all worked in the film. I also wanted to like this film. To me this story was about humans coping with a whole lot of shit in their lives. Well I wish they had gotten a human being to direct it, instead of a copying machine. It is hard to take the threat seriously when the President and all the heads of states, dictators included, look like the Marx brothers in bad makeup. Am I to believe that these clowns can start a Nuclear war, while sitting in the same freaking room as the one in Dr. Strangelove? Does Zack have any original ideas in his head? Does Zack know what a living human being even acts like? Some of the actors try hard, I wish the director would have spent more time with them, instead of trying to figure out how Doc Manhattans little dust motes will react. The credits, done in a bad cartoon 1950's bad caricature of crime photos, takes me out of the story instead of in it, Zack even gets that wrong, taking out the grit and the dark textures of real life crime photos and replacing it with cut out slo motion moving crap.
When the first big talk between Dan and SS2 happens, Zack shoots it through the glass, never coming into the room where the characters are talking, he does not get close, and he does not want to.. rather look at the cool light effects I can get. Grow up, Zack.
Learn to direct people.
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And just be thankful that we saw Watchmen!!!!!
If anything...this is better for the film industry and the comics industry in the long run.
People are already confounded that this was a comic book. Might get people wondering what else is out there. As well as getting more intellectual comic book properties brought to screen.
This will also give the people who have the balls to shoot this kind of stuff more money to make even more cool shit! -
That is, I liked it as a mind-blowing reveal, but the plan didn't make any sense. How is the world supposed to unite against this thing that may have been a random happening? At least provide a fake point of origin, so we have something to try to attack or defend against. Fine, Manhattan is American and everyone's pissed at America. They still can't do anything because they think Manhattan is watching.
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I'm glad to see at least one other person here though so.
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I read the book (By Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons) back in 1985, when it was first serialized by DC comics as a 12 issue mini series. Since being collected into a graphic novel in 1986, it has made Time Magazine's list of 100 greatest novels of all times. The book deserves that status. It has influenced an entire generation of Film and TV producers, and directors, and lot of the visual language that todays films are using, have been directly influenced by the Watchman Graphic novel.
Like "The Lord of The Rings", the book is so dense in detail that it seems un-filmable. And yet somehow it has been filmed into a mostly faithful 3 hour movie. This movie version of the Watchmen is a truncated version of the book and it is better than we have any right to expect it to be. Director Zack Snyder is to be commended for filming the un-filmable. -
About the opening credits...I totally agree.
Brilliantly done. I had two people with me today - one knew almost nothing about the Watchmen story and the other knew a lot about its history but had never read it.
Both praised the opening credits as well. They were so incredibly well done. And come on.. "The Times They are a Changin?" Perfect. -
Some decent mainstream, non-fanboy reaction from The Guardian newspaper (http: //tinyurl .com/as4txr): "Zack Snyder's movie version of the DC Comics graphic novel Watchmen is a fantastically deranged epic; it might be making a bid for flawed-masterpiece status, except that it is probably more flaw than masterpiece. There are dull moments and moments of inspiration, moments of sublime CGI trickery and, repeatedly, moments when you suspect that a much-loved pop-rock standard is being bashed out on the soundtrack to make sure your interest levels don't flatline. It is a radioactive mosaic of bizarre touches and surreal tweaks .... The synapse-frazzling ambition of Watchmen is impressive as it lurches from hyperreal Earth to photoreal Mars; it is dizzy, crazy and quite sexy - when it's not being self-indulgent and pointless. If it doesn't quite hang together or add up, or stick faithfully to the comic-book original, these offences aren't major. What a spectacle."
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I would of liked it more if it was 15 min shorter. AND that 15 mins could be the sadist, blood, gore, bone, violence that Snyder just can seem to curb. (but i do understand and like it in his Dawn of the Dead remake) ALSO, sometimes the music and the blue shlong was out of place. 3 out of 4 stars.
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Its crazy... In a year where we might get a PG-13 TERMINATOR movie, we get a R rated superhero movie... And I would take my kid to see this... Even with the "blue wang o doom"!!! People are so stupid...
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Just wasn't big enough! If I had his powers, I'd have an 8 foot dick! That, and fewer scabs on it.
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Only one of those is any good.
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I was bummed that my favorite part of the entire thing, the Rorschach psychiatric visits, was condensed because him telling about the child murderer was my favorite passage of the entire book. I also don't like how the altercation with Silk Spectre and The Comedian at the party was gone. It seemed like a lot of character stuff was sacrificed. I don't mind the new ending. It makes sense.
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I can't see how this film will ever capture a wide audience who doesn't appreciate the source material. I didn't know anything about the story and found the movie slow, stupid, the character development didn't happen, and there odd choices made by the director.
The audience laughed during the lovemaking scene b/c it was so absurd. There were groans and several people were making fun of the movie as we all left. Complete disaster. -
Just got back-- the film is terrific, because its a terrific film -- my kinda surprise is that Watchmen makes a darn good movie story. Adrian's and Jon's characters are a little different than in the book, but work just fine in the film. The old-age makeup didn't bug me-- I forgot to notice. The read on Sally Jupiter is different than her voice is in the book, but is totally consistent with the facts of the character and works perfectly in the story. This was a really well done and very honorable tribute that makes a great movie.
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for lowered expectations-- they couldn't have been higher a few weeks ago and I think the film benefited from a realistic viewing.
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Yeah, it's all the Christians who saw this movie opening night and are now on AICN complaining about it.
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Mainstream guy who had no more knowledge than the publicity going in-- he thought it was "pretty good" (which for this guy means terrific)and had no problems with the story, the performances or the length
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Everytime I've seem somebody come back with an alias and bitch about their banning, they make it abundantly clear why they were banned in the first place. There's been more than one case of that in this talkback.
Normal people don't get banned, even when they post dissenting opinions. Examine the beam in your own eye, before the mote in someone else's. -
It seems that Moore’s reticence was once again justified. In its present state, Snyder’s ‘Watchmen’ not only ignores the essential differences between either medium – the graphic vs. audio-visual – but, more importantly, demonstrates the aesthetic cultural dominance of “commercial products” that elevate form over matter. It makes me wonder whether Snyder really understood how Moore's deconstruction of the superhero genre was not only an overt deconstruction of the graphic medium itself, but also criticizes the consumption of cultural products, in this case ‘pop’ culture’s medium pur sang: the comic book. (Hence all the references to b-movies, comics, collectibles and other consumer products, all of which attempt to take advantage of individual and social insecurities.)
On the surface, Moore’s ‘Watchmen’ fuses classical (and thus recognizable) tropes of the superhero and detective genres with historical realism. In doing so, it also successfully depicts the cause-and-effect of attempts to both shape and preserve intrinsic power structures (at the national, universal, and individual level). Snyder’s work is adequately faithful to this aspect of the novel.
But what justifies the artistic and cultural relevance of Moore’s work is its’ intrinsically ‘graphic’ depiction of the contradictory aspects of human agency (if not human nature itself). What emerges from this inner conflict we see unfold before us as a cultural struggle between anarchy and the control and dissemination of knowledge, and how they undermine each other when taken to their (il-)logical extreme; see for example Veidt’s assumption about the need to subjugate absolute freedom in order to save mankind from itself, mirroring Rorsach’s idealization of “justice” above all else, or Dr. Manhattan’s alienation from humanity by his increased awareness of a ‘rational’ universe (but whose meaning he is ill-equipped to understand – a possibility he is unable to ‘factor in’ in his new-found role as cosmic creator).
In this sense, Leo Strauss was correct in writing that if “science is susceptible of infinite progress, there cannot be a meaningful end or completion of history; there can only be a brutal stopping of man’s onward march through natural forces acting by themselves or directed by human brains and hands.” And yet, the novel demonstrates that in the creative impulse of mankind (through art, sex) the utopian hope for renewal survives alongside its destructive consequences. That is, even “the alternative which now confronts man, of the utmost degradation and the highest exaltation,” leaves open the possibility of redemption and reintegration into the “fallen world of time and matter” (and as such, what it means to go ‘beyond good and evil’).
Indeed, underneath the spectacle of violence and phantasy, ‘Watchmen’ displays the equally productive and destructive aspects of love/desire (in both the material and ideal planes) as the distinctive feature that characterizes the paradox of human nature. This is demonstrated by the almost primal attraction between Laurie Jupiter and Dan Dreiberg, and that of Sally Jupiter and the Comedian – a contrast that was not properly developed in the movie. In fact, it failed to depict the more feral qualities of Laurie, who was after all the daughter of the latter two, and thus the unlikelihood of her ‘pairing’ with the more passive Dreiberg. In fact, one wonders if their relation would have come about in the absence of such existential threats as death, nuclear Armageddon, and an indifferent (demi-) God.
As it is, the movie just treats the relation in the conventional Hollywood way, confusing the peripeteia of tragedy (in this sense the downfall of our ‘heroes’ is meant to demonstrate the limits of modern civilization, i.e. its ideals and its cultural products) with sentimental pathos (i.e. superficial appeal to emotion). That’s why Snyder’s choice to drop the sex scene between Laurie and Dreiberg after Veidt’s manufactured Armageddon ultimately undermines (if it wasn’t already by the sex scene in the Owl) the contrast between violence and sexual tension already established earlier. As a result, the movie fails to demonstrate how the threat of violence can never the less drive humans to seek comfort and solace in each other, no matter how contradictory their individual natures, much like the attempt by Veidt to force an appeasement between the U.S. and the USSR.
Sure, he has Dr. Manhattan state this unequivocally in his conversation with Laurie on Mars, where he admits his failure to recognize the miracle of human nature and its capacity to “create gold out of air”, i.e. create meaning out of chaos (seek life in the face of destruction). But he does not add weight to this idea in the same way that the graphic novel did, thereby leaving it unfulfilled both in the rhetorical and artistic sense. After all, Dr. Manhattan demonstrates that he continues to misunderstand the nature of life and humanity when he expresses his interest in creating humans of his own – specifically, he misunderstands the nature of the question, “quid sit deus?” (“what is a god”) and the moral implications this entails.
Unfortunately, the setting of this conversation was also changed in Snyder’s version, and thereby so too the concepts at stake. In Moore’s novel the dialogue took place between Dr. Manhattan and Veidt, following the death of Rorsach and the scene between Laurie and Dreiberg where they console each other (implying a sexual encounter). In this exchange, not only are we meant to consider the implications of an alternative human race ‘made in the image’ of Dr. Manhattan (cf. this with our own attempts at creating ‘artificial intelligence’, or better yet, look at both “A.I.” and “2001”), but contrast this with Veidt’s own attempts to ‘play god’ by steering the course of human history (which in itself represents the hegemonic attempts of super-powers such as the US and USSR – the irony of which drove even the Comedian to despair).
Unfortunately, the absence of these important parallels and contrasts – which in the book are graphically depicted – makes the movie more susceptible to the invalid and superficial criticism of anachronistic irrelevance, as if the graphic novel’s themes were only made relevant by the historical context in which it was made. However, by overtly relying on such historical cues – such as the Comedian’s role in the assassination of JFK, Dr. Manhattan’s presence during the Apolo moon landing. But more intrusive are the use of well-known popular songs whose literal significance undermines the contrast between meaning and event by focusing more on the postmodern “irony” of the contradiction itself.
Instead, by playing down the contrast between graphic depictions (e.g. sex, violence, consumerism, etc.) and human ideals (e.g. love, fear, desire, etc.), the movie ultimately undermines the content and significance of the novel. It makes it subservient to the already social dominance of power structures such as capitalism, militarism, and ‘universal human rights’, the very concepts that the graphic novel is attempting to critique by deconstructing the very ideas (e.g. justice, universal human rights, democracy, rationality) and mediums (e.g. movies, newspapers, TV) that sustain these, including the graphic medium itself. The absence of the ‘monster’ – which physically embodies the irrational fears and terrors of mankind (and thus our collective imagination) in terms of an external threat – only highlights the failure of the movie in undermining this ambiguity. Shifting the weight of existential threat onto Dr. Manhattan does not necessarily obscure the essential human need to ‘ontologize’ meaning as an external essence, whether in terms of divinity or secularized reason. But what the movie fails to depict is that mankind does this primarily through art. The movie attempts to teach us something about human nature but remains silent about its own paradoxical complicity in the creation of meaning.
However, because there were elements that, due to commercial reasons, were not included in the theatrical release, this assessment is obviously premature. I am particularly interested in how the DVD will interweave the Tales of the Black Freighter into the overall narrative. That said, in terms of superficial aesthetics the movie is far from perfect. Musical cues seem forced (the worst: ‘Hallelujah’ and ‘All Along the Watchtower’; the best: Bob Dylan and Koyaanisqatsi), pacing is inconsistent, while the oft-mentioned gripes about acting and make-up seem to me justified.
Snyder had the best intentions in mind when making this movie. That was obvious throughout the production process, and is clear in the movie itself. But that may be the problem, and the source of the movie’s own undoing. I wonder if in his attempt to save ‘Watchmen’ from less faithful adaptations (despite the expressed ambivalence of one of the creators), and his conviction that he was sufficiently equipped to tackle this, Snyder recognizes a more than casual resemblance with Veidt. Yet another case of life imitating art? (I’m looking at you Lucas.)
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I never really comment on this site. I just like to read other comments. However, seeing this movie today ( I have to say the advertising really drew me in) was quite an experience so I had to comment. I consider myself a film geek but I'm no uber-geek like some of you. I'm 33, used to collect a lot of comics back in the day, but never even heard of Watchmen until this site started covering it. I looked it up on Wikipedia and it peeked my interest. I've read all the bitching and moaning about the ending and what not and all the other items that may or may not have been addressed. As a film it was great. Even my little sister who is 21 liked it a ton. I thought the pacing was fine the way they had it. The 3 hours flew by. I looked at my cell about 2:45 mins in and thought, sheesh its almost over, I want more. I wanted more of Dr. M and what ended up of his future. My sister and I were upset by what happened with Rorshach. I had already knew the ending from Wiki but he was such a great character in the movie. I will now seek at the GN and read it. The makeup didn't even bother me as much as some people. I guess I was just wrapped up in the story. It was pretty easy for a rookie like me that only knew a tad about the story from you folks to go along with the ride. Like Beaks has said... all stripped down it was just a plain detective story. That's exactly how I saw it too. Great movie!! Can't wait for the Diectors Cut.
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THE STORY OF WATCHMENAnd so finally we get to the meat of what I've been waffling on about. How does the story translate onto the screen? How much do those themes I spent so much time discussing resonate in the film? And, of course, how does that controversial new ending work?The thing that makes the Watchmen story in the comic so good is the rich and layered detail. Unfortunately, this kind of detail was always going to be the first thing to go in any adaptation. I realise this, but I still found myself with a little pang of regret when Jon didn't talk about the photograph falling to the ground however many seconds in the future. Even more so was the loss of much of Rorsharch's backstory, but Snyder did still manage to include the most important scene (let's face it, Kitty Genovese is only the start of how Kovacs became Rorsharch, not the end, and beyond that do we REALLY need to know how he made his mask?) and I hold out a not-unreasonable hope that there is more to come in the extended cut.Beyond the loss of detail that was always going to happen, the rest of the plot is present, far closer than I ever thought possible. Many critics have claimed that the movie is rushed, but by god if you were trying to squeeze that much plot into that short a running time you'd have to rush too. We all would have liked to see a longer film I think, but just because WE would happily sit through a 3 hour theatrical cut and a 4+ hour director's cut doesn't mean everyone would. The practicalities of movie audiences and profit needs mean that, even in this day and age, over 3 hour films tend not to be profitable. LOTR is an obvious exception, but come on! The second most read book in the world EVER, second only to the frigging Bible, will always find an audience. They could have released a 12 hour movie in the cinema and people would still have flooded to watch it. Watchmen was never going to have that kind of audience, so it simply had to be a length where potential new audiences would not be put off simply by the number of minutes they had to sit there watching it.The major downside to this rush is that there is precious little time for the audience to reflect on the themes, but then again I would argue that would be the case whatever the length, simply because of the change in medium. A book (including a comic) has no pace of its own, simply because each reader will experience it at their own speed, often over the course of more than one day. A film, however, has one pace and one pace only and the audience has to keep up. There is no time for reflection, no time for meditation and no time for thoughts being provoked. In a film, these either come afterwards, once you are standing outside the cinema, or on repeat viewings. In this sense, I have to wait until Wednesday before I get to see it again (first time I experience a film is always on my own, second time with friends), so I will see how well the themes resonate then. I certainly did not feel that the themes were overlooked on first viewing.All in all, I think that the film was good, right up until... THE ENDINGThe new ending was always going to be a sticking point. Even though I have understood the need to change the ending and defended the decision to do so, there was always the possibility that it would fall flat. Sadly, I have to report that, by the ending, Watchmen has ceased to be a good film... ... and gone and become a FUCKING GREAT FILM!!!There, I said it! Let the abuse commence if it must, but I honestly believe that the new ending is a better one that what Moore came up with.There are a number of reasons I believe this. First of all and most importantly, it makes more sense from the perspective of Jon's character. I had always seen Jon as the great tragedy at the heart of Watchmen. Created by accident, used almost against his will (almost because he is deliberately un-willful), Jon is the embodiment of every superior power mankind has ever worshipped, be it God, weapons of war, nuclear power or even (yes) aliens, especially because every higher power we have ever known or believed in has ALWAYS been used by those in power to keep themselves in power. It seemed to be the natural progression of the story that this passive, detached power, used and abused by everyone he meets, would eventually turn on humanity. I therefore felt let down by Moore when Jon was relegated almost to a footnote in the ending in favour of a new, made-up power. Why was Jon's choice at the end no different from Dan's, or Laurie's, or Rorsharch's, to stay silent or ruin world peace? That is their choice, because they have no power to do anything about it beyond their words, but not Jon's.Snyder's interpretation actually takes this one step further, for Veidt uses Jon as well, no different than anyone else, except this time Jon recognises it as the only true use of his power that could ever create a lasting effect for mankind. It almost becomes the purpose for which he was made and his embracing of his fate is now lent an added poignancy (some people really need to look that word up) with the knowledge that only through fear of him can humanity come to love the miracle of itself. The look on Crudup's face in Karnak when he decides to leave made my heart soar and plummet simultaneously.The second reason I believe it works better is because the attack is WORLDWIDE. Why would a world full of anti-American sentiment unite over an attack against what is to most of the world "the enemy", even if that attack was not of this world? There would be crazies in Russia and Cuba thinking the aliens were on their side, for god's sake and they would be practically queueing up to hit America while they were down. By making the attack from the external threat worldwide, it is clear beyond any doubt that it is now all of humanity under threat, not just America.Finally, I appreciated the new ending better as it is, quite simply, more elegant storytelling. There is no need to introduce a new threat, much less any need to discuss the fact that this threat does not, in fact, exist. There is also no need to tackle the two major problems of the squid; that it involves psychic powers (how do you portray that on film in 30 seconds exactly, let alone explain it?) and that the squid is genetically HUMAN, meaning any scientific analysis would instantly reveal it to be of terrestrial origin. The new ending flows better, works better and achieves its ultimate purpose better.This ultimate purpose is the reason why the most logical debate to have is pointless. The debate I'm referring to is, of course, whether EITHER the squid OR Jon would actually persuade the political powers to drop their weapons and unite. The whole point is that IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO!! As I said before, to me the ultimate theme of Watchmen is that humanity CAN'T embrace utopia, because our very essence as a species is contrary to peace. It doesn't matter how peace is achieved, because sooner or later it will be broken. Rorsharch's journal is often seen as the key for this, but far more important is the attitude of the New Frontiersman. They don't want peace, because peace is not what drives them. They need conflict and want to see it return as soon as possible. This attitude represents more of humanity than we are willing to acknowledge, so Rorsharch's journal would only be the EXCUSE they needed to jettison peace and return to war. In the end, what exactly ushered in the temporary peace is irrelevant, and in that sense using Jon is simply better storytelling and characterisation than some pretend bit of intergalactic seafood.And there you have it. Zack Snyder has produced a thoughtful, challenging film from a thoughful, challenging book. It is not a film without flaws, but it is also not a book without flaws. The film manages to fix some of the book's flaws and any new ones it makes (bad make up, etc) are attributable to the practicalities of movie making rather than any deficiency in storytelling. With an extended cut on the horizon to enrich the characters and story even more, I know that this is a film I will love and cherish for the rest of my life.
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You do not have to believe in God or go to church to be part of Christian society. That is simply what we live in. You can't escape that, any more than you can escape the two thousand years of history, dogma and repression of humanity's instincts that is embedded deep into our collective subconscious.My comment was in no way about individual religious beliefs. Apologies for not making that clear.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-vwkbAZ5Kw
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Some people have criticized it as been too close but I applaud him for it. It's obvious he made if for the fans. In fact he might have made it more bloody, but I think that in the spirit of the book. Overall, I loved it.
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I've read Watchmen a couple times in my life. I thought the film was awesome. Fuck sakes!!! I grew up watching Super-Friends. The changes from comic to film ( which I found, for the most part, are not many ) were in some spots brilliant. Like the graphic violence and the full frontal female nudity. Some purist might tell me that you do get to see the Silk Spectre's breasts in the book. But in only one panel. One panel alone won't make me stare at a screen five minutes. I have to admit I didn't miss the Squid either. I liked the exaggerated fighting a lot. A vast majority of the dialogue is exactly from the comic. I can't gripe about the changes from comic to film. I always figured I would like this movie a lot if it stayed faithful to the story's overall plot. Some folks, it seems to me, tend to forget comic does actually have a succinct beginning, middle, and end that go with the books massive amounts of character examination. I can't wait to see the extended addition.
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OK, it was good, but nothing special.. you realize that it would have mostly been dubbed in later a la Spiderman. without the mask he just remined me of a slightly tougher Scut Farkus. afine peromance, but Oscar worthy? uh, no.
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You fucking retards. We want this movie to do well so we get some more fuckin R rated comic book adaptations that don't involve titus pullo fucking shit up with a budget of 25,000 dollars. idiots. all of you.
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You shure write smart =)
totally agree with you btw -
Some of the extra violence that was added, most especially the fight scene between Dan, Laurie, and the knot tops, felt out of place. I'm not a stickler for the graphic novel but there are things about its story that work. It is very violent. Rorschach, the Comedian, and Dr. Manhattan kill people. But reasons are given for why they kill, the killings say important things about their characters, they carry emotional weight, and they serve the narrative.
The killings of knot tops by Laurie and Dan carry all the emotional weight of the cartoon violence of an 80's video game. It lessens the impact of other deaths in the story, including Rorschach's altercations in prison, the Comedian's spat with his girlfriend in Nam, and even the ending. If human life has so little value in this world, why should we care about it? Some have complained about feeling emotionally disengaged from the movie. I wonder if it's because of this extra gratuitous violence.
In the graphic novel, the impression is given that Rorschach is more brutal than other vigilantes (Comedian and Dr. Manhattan aside, as they also seem exceptional). A big deal is made of the fact that Rorschach kills a few people in the course of his crime-fighting career. In the movie, Laurie kills a few people in the space of a few seconds. Granted, it is arguably in self-defense. But it is done without a second thought, as if she and Dan kill routinely. In the graphic novel, and to some extent in the movie, an entire chapter is devoted to Rorschach's back story, partly to explain why he kills. In the movie, why does Laurie kill? because it's normal, apparently; all costumed adventurers do it. Ruthless brutality was Rorschach's trademark. Portraying Laurie and Dan this way is analogous to making an XMen movie in which all mutants have berserker tempers and retractable claws. -
Snyder with a 25 million dollar budget might make him actually think about character.
a high budget rated R film does not a great film make. -
You have to remember.. Wacthmen was made 20 years ago... everything has escalated since then. It's a different world. To make the same impact Watchmen made back then now you have to raise the stakes even higher.
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People are free to like or dislike whatever they want, whatever the consequences...if it sucks then so bet it..
dickhead -
fucking site screwed up.
some people left early. the sex scenes made people really uncomfortable. people responded well to rorschach/kovacs scenes in jail.
now here's my opinion. i thought some scenes went on too long, and were not paced well. and i am fresh off of watching the animated comic version. if anyone thinks those nearly still images in the animated panels lingered too long, they will be really agitated by several sections of the movie. i feel if enough of these scenes (and sorry, i can't pinpoint which) were trimmed by just seconds, there would be room to put in many of the small tidbits that aid in development but really pay off and strengthen the ending. i feel like slo-mo was over used. i wanted it used- and it was great in the action scenes mind you, but did we really need to see the rain and the comedian's casket from above in slow motion for nearly three whole minutes? probably not.
i felt the end was the typical hollywood wrap-up. it's where everything that had been changed from the novel collided and fell into confusion. there was not enough emphasis throughout the movie that veidt was building free energy machines worldwide. you see manhattan give them one, and then it's not explained until the typical 'villain' speech that they are all over the world..... and how would he be able to do so in some of the very countries that were threatening war? wouldn't they question an atomic device from an american corporation being implemented in their major cities?
believe me, i'm not angry about the squid, but why remove the squid and keep bubastis, and bring him in just as suddenly and casually? there is no mention of him being a genetically altered lynx. there are several other points like this. who cares about the black kid and the newsstand guy hugging at the end if it was never even established who they were? that's what i mean when i say they cut things out that were crucial to the emotional weight of the end. and by making ozy a cocky typical villain, they cheapened his purpose. he was supposed to have remorse- a heavy crown, taking no joy in his actions. and by removing that, they also cheapened his line and gave it someone else. the whole 'did i do the right thing?....nothing ever ends' bit. i;m sorry, the end just fell apart for me, and with no previous glimpses of the frontiersman staff in any previous scenes, it made the ending lose whatever impact it was meant to have.
no doubt, all of these gripes will probably be remedied in a director's cut. but, i have to say, i am not extremely happy with the cut that was given to audiences. hang me if you will. yet, i still liked the movie...i just think the editing leaves alot to be improved.
also, rorschach butchering the kidnapper: granted, that sleazeball deserved whatever he got...BUT i sensed all around me that the people in the audience- and myself- instantly lost whatever connect they had just built with rorschach/kovacs in the brilliant prison scenes when they saw him lose it and repeatedly whack the guy's head. as we all know from the comic, rorschach's justice was a pure ripoff of mad max with the hacksaw, handcuffs and pending explosion. (how did anyone give moore a pass for that blatant swipe anyway?)...and so having been put into popular consciousness with mad max and most recently things like SAW, i understand that wanted to change it...but that was the most clever thing they could think of? it was cheap. the point of the scene is that it was the turning point were kovacs lost all faith in humanity (in the murder of the child) and was technically responsible for killing a guy instead of using legal justice....i think if they took five more minutes they could have come up with a more clever form of justice that would not have completely destroyed the character they had just built.
so, for now, that's my two cents. believe me when i say i enjoyed the movie. i just wish they hadn't left so many important but small bricks out of the final build. -
Well, the movie was fairly good, but missing all of the subtext that makes the graphic novel such an intriguing challenge. I don't know if that is Snyder's fault. It's just what do you do with two hours and forty five minutes? I really think this should have been done as a twelve episode HBO series, each episode running for 90 minutes. Then we could have delved into the source material. I know the graphic novel intimately. I reread it twice in preparation for the movie so I caught all of the background references Snyder put in. But I wonder how the uninitiated who have never read the book will take it. I think there was some confusion from those people. And finally, what is the problem with parents bringing four year old kids to R rated movies. I thought all of the explicit sex, violence, and Manhattan's blue dong would have sent a family behind me running. Nope, they stayed the whole way through. Good way to raise psycho children.
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laurie and dan killing or at least mortally wounding the gang members did feel out of place, and thank you for reminding me why. rorschach's new justice in murder was the thing that made him a hunted vigilante. his former colleagues all agreed he 'went too far'...and yet, instead of smartly disarming and immobilizing the gang, they brutally and joyfully kill them. they didn't even go that far with the murderous criminals in the prison. that scene WAS very wrong, and it made me lose any sympathies or connection or understanding in those two afterward.
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i understand the penis in comics was a first, and maybe they had to go for a resonavble size- but i heard gibbons say he drew the junk purposely to make manhattan resemble the ideallic greek/roman sculpture.....so why did they feel the need to make doc hung like a pornstar when flaccid? seems like snyder's overcompensating for something if you ask me.oh and everyone is hating on malin ackerman's acting, but i thought she was great. she actually made what was a very thin character halfway likable- and at times looked just like how she was drawn.
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Your intent is clearer. For the record, this Catholic wasn't offended. In IMAX, the parts I wanted to focus on were far enough away from the parts I didn't.
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...are you a Hegelian? ;)
Serious analysis and a nice change of pace. -
It was good, but not great. Despite what fanboys are pissing and moaning about, the movie was able to entertain me and the wife for 3 hours. I really couldn't ask for anything more from Snyder.
Oh yeah, the best opening credits belong to Fight Club. Period. -
Who's Carol???
btw, I thought it rocked. Yes, the squid would have been a better film. But I still think Snyder filmed a masterpiece. -
bit of a mis-click!
anyway, here ya go:
http://tinyurl.com/ch6g2d
oh my, oh my... -
I think this was the best adaptation anyone could have hoped for. Flaws, sure but they're not horrible. GREAT casting all around. I'm looking forward to the extended DVD. Haters... you went into the movie expecting to hate it. Admit it.
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Went in with low expectations but was pleasantly surprised. It's not great though, the third act was all exposition, no character work or subtext what so ever apart from Rorschach's last scene. It's very flawed but I wasn't bored a single minute of it, so that's got to count for something. Also, the "hallelujah" sex scene was painful to watch.
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Not nearly as bad as critics have said. Old Sally Jupiter's make up was fine (though her voice as an old woman could have been done better). The changed ending worked better than the original ending.
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I never really appreciated how important that character was for this movie. Malin Ackerman is hot, but she didn't understand the character - should have played a bith and not a mall bimbo.
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Seriously... it worked for the scene and brought the tension down. I was sitting between my girlfriend and my best bud. If it was Chris Isaac playing instead then it would have been painful.
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Besides anything else, I can't stand the fact that Rorschach actually utters the words "the Watchmen" in this movie. I'll stick to the comic, which IS the greatest superhero story ever told. Kingdom Come is up there with the best, but it's not HALF as good as Watchmen, which is in a league of its own.
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There was one or two lines that I thought were delivered a little off but other than that, the hating on her has gone overboard.
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Mar 08, 2009 12:12:15 AM CST
HEY, THEY JUST MADE THE MOVIE YOU'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!!!
by wolfman nards
And it's almost shot for shot the book and executed in almost near perfection! QUIT YOUR FUCKING BITCHING. People that walked out are people expecting to see the fucking X-Men.
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Half the theater laughed at it, but then again a lot of people snickered whenever Dr. Manhattan came on the screen with his schlong. Also most of the gore was completely unnecessary.
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The reason why so many people disliked the movie boils down to the fact there was absolutely no tension in the movie. Did anyone watching really care what was going to happen to the planet or any of the people on it. I didn't because there was no attempt to explore it by the director. You got nothing but the point of view of the superheroes and the politicians, the two groups that were not going to be affected by the Armageddon. Snyder's strict adherence to the novel was the culprit. By the movie's end, I was simply relieved that this paint by numbers filmed reproduction of the novel was finally getting to the last couple of moving image pages. Interestingly, the part everyone is raving about including myself is the opening credits. That was a clear departure from the novel that absolutely works in the film. It's very unfortunate that Snyder didn't vie for a little more independence from the book when constructing the cinematic tension. If, as Umberto Eco might put it, he had lingered in the woods a bit longer rather than getting to the other side of the forest, all the visual elements were there to make this a true classic.
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Like I always thought regardless of the ending it was totally worth it to see the Rorschach and Manhattan stories.
The occassional meh bit's of the Movie washed over me while the well realised bits were Gold.
As simple as that.
Though clearly the story is just far too complex for some to grasp and always would be. As David Simon of The Wire siad memorably "Fuck the casual viewer!"
They can be easily placated and sedated on their usual fare of Paul Blart Mall Cop or fat suit or talking dog Movies. -
Mar 08, 2009 12:26:32 AM CST
the sex scene was good...and pretty funny too
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
maybe if some of these people on the talkbacks had sex they wouldnt be so uncomfortable watching it.
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Saw it last night. For a country that has zero Watchmen knowledge (okay maybe 0.5), I was surprised there about 50 people in the theatre, and couldn't believe when I saw a couple of 13 year olds walk in accompanied by someone who must have been their grandmother. Which tells you that the people at the multiplex don't give a shit about movie rating around here (Watchmen is 18 here - under 18s not allowed - the correspondent of R, although I think a 16 would have been more appropriate). I wonder how Grandma felt when arms were snapped or cut, legs of little girls chewed by dogs, etc.
I watched it with my wife, who again knew nothing about Watchmen except for the trailer, and she liked it, although half way through she did turn to me and whispered: Do you like it? I'd been waiting for the movie for more than a year, so yeah I was liking it. But it did start to feel at a certain point that the movie was just treading water, waiting for the end. The highs (Rorschach in prison, doc's flashbacks, the comedian) had gone, some of the lows as well (the archie sex, when the room instantly started chuckling). My wife also confided at the end, half-jokingly, that the "blue guy was a moron" for a super-being, and we had a good laugh about that in the car.
O, and I gotta say this to Octaveaeon: way to show us how the rhetoric of cultural studies can ruin every freakin pleasure of a movie (or a book). Perhaps not ruin, but undermine, surely. You use "undermine" way too much, man.
And criticizing the consumption of pop cultural products in a pop cultural product "pur sang" (you sure don't let one pretentious syntagm slip, do you)? Tout court: don't hold your breath for that one. It would be self-undermining (which you, as the sophisticated hermeneut that you are would probably savour) but which Snyder would propably have trouble even pronouncing. And please stop lifting "paradoxical complicity" straight out of Adorno (or else say: as Adorno said), just shows you're trying too hard. -
...to Zack Snyder and Co. for making this movie with the same love and passion that I have for the source material and the mythology of the superhero.
Today, for me anyway, was a good day to be a geek. Thank you. -
Why do I want to see this movie? It sounds horrible!
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I along with many of the rest of you thought Akerman's portrayal of SS II was problematic. I noticed it immediately as I watched, but I also realized immediately that you can't blame Akerman. Ultimately, she has to read the words on the page and her director, to borrow a cliche, did not set her up for success. Snyder gave her character no room to experience changes naturally(from a cinematic perspective). For example, she had to go from admiring Dr. Manhattan to leaving him forever, to going out with Nite Owl, to falling in love with him in a matter of seconds onscreen. That just doesn't work in the movies like it does on the page. She is a pivotal character and she was asked to convey several plot points and character arc changes in the span of a couple of spoken lines off the page. How the heck was she supposed to pull that off? Rorschach was given plenty of room to avail his character and Haley executed brilliantly. But Akerman, who needed to carry a substantial portion of the subplots, was not afforded the same luxury as Haley and so we were left with a performance that was ultimately not believable. I think if you need to place blame, this is one of those rare times you should be pointing at the director and/or screenwriter, not the actor.
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Not many movies have two characters as interesting and well played as Rorshach and Manhattan. I think a lot of critics have their heads FAR up their asses on this one. I get the feeling that most of them grabbed a copy of the comic in the last couple weeks as if that were a prerequisite for appreciating the FILM.
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in the comic, she was whiny and annoying. in the movie she was sexy and likable!
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I am against the making of this movie on principle. It's not that I don't think it would make a great movie, I just think the existence of the movie will displace and supplant the book's rightful place as being "what Watchmen is." For most people going forward "Watchmen" will conjure up cinematic, rather than drawn, imagery. That being said, after re-reading it this week and watching the credits tonight, I'm gonna go into the movie with an open mind and try to forget I ever read the book. I do think they lost the plot by changing the ending. The squid is not necessary, but changing it to a frameup of Dr. Manhattan misses the point of uniting humanity against an external threat. Aside from that I'm disappointed to hear that the main thing actual readers of the book have noted as missing is the sense of overbearing dread brought about by the looming nuclear war. I had hoped the movie would have lots of news clips and shots of the doomsday clock and people discussing how pointless life is when the sky is about to fall. I know you can't fit everything into a movie and that's why I would have rather, if they must adapt Watchmen, have seen it done as a 12 part HBO series, Band of Brothers style. Zack Snyder could still direct it and it would probably sell 10 million disc collections in five years.
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people have expectations beyond any possible outcome. the movie was way better than the comic.
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the book was slow and there was too much dialogue. the movie was exciting from beginning to end!
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And I thought it was the biggest mixed bag of success and failure I've seen in a long time. It felt like there were scenes from the books that were reasons why a lot of people loved the material and were included in the movie for that reason alone. The basic narrative is a detective story that unravels a plot to save the world (by killing millions). I loved the questions raised using the character of Veidt regarding what a hero really is especially when contrasted with the never compromise battle cry of Rorsach. And I thought it was very interesting how they played around with staples of comic book heroes. You have Rorsach who represents the ID of Batman, coupled with Nightowl who embodies his lifestyle, yet has the good natured ignorance of Superman, although Dr. Manhattan is the one beset with his kind of powers (if not more so). And in a way Manhattan embodies Superman's ID in that he's so powerful, he's almost lost the need to be smart (even though he obviously is) and that's where Veidt's character comes in. It's really impressive how Moore took the scheming of a Lex Luthor type, yet blurred a line between complete villiany and acting for the common good. Where I think the book and comic fail is that they're so nail on the head with trying to play archetypes against each other, and not giving you what you thought would happen, that it almost becomes preachy. Scenes like the Comedian talking to Dr. Manhattan about winning Vietnam, and how it would have psychologically hurt the country if we hadn't, felt a little too obvious. A lot of things felt too obvious, that if they were cut the movie would have felt more like something to think about, and less like something trying to sound smart or profound. Less is always more, and I think that's why Star Wars A New Hope was and still is the grand champion of examining archetypes. Beyond all that, this strict adherence to the books felt like it weighed the movie down. It fucked with pacing. There were too many changes in gears... Yet it didn't feel long. It just didn't feel cohesive.. like there wasn't a driving force behind it. However the skill Synder put on display in executing some of it makes me wish he used that confidence, which he really deserves, in making a better script. All I hope is that he gets to keep doing what he wants, because as far as DIRECTING that story, I don't think anyone could have done it better.
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as my friends and i were leaving just after the credits I yelled out, "where's the squid? i still want my fucking squid!" of course you'll accept my apology for the mistake if you weren't at the Randall 15 IMAX.
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I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
You are looking at the performance by knowing WHERE the character needs to be, not where she takes you.
Her line readings were awkward at best. In numerous scenes, especially during her character's big reveal, she shapouted her lines.
Yes, SHAPOUTED. Shout/Pouted. I've seen that Celebutard Paris give better line readings...
And to think THIS is the reason Doc Manhattan changes his mind.
What was such a pivotal point of the GN turned into a scene from The Hills.
And the actress playing her mother was just as bad.
It almost seemed as if Snyder had o hire one shitty actress to match the other in the family tree...
Such a shame.
Watchmen was a FANTASTIC 2 hour film "squeezed" into 2 hr and 45 minutes...
And a 3 + hour cut won't fix the mistakes.
I'd personally prefer a 2 hr 15 min. cut. -
I have been a diehard fan of Snyder since seeing the DOTD remake trailer in 2003. I saw that movie 3 times in theatres and have watched the DVD more than any other in my collection. THOSE are still the best opening credits of all time. 300 was damn cool for what was some pretty thin source material. 300 the comic never did it for me, but he really brought it to life.
Anyhow, I'd like to see him try an original story for his next feature film. Since people are comparing him to Ridley Scott (I agree), how about a hard sci-fi thriller, something like Sunshine, Alien, Blade Runner, etc. Or, a detective story with no fantastical elements, like Zodiac or To Live and Die in L.A.
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You should read the comic again. She SHAPOUTS every line and makes a bitchy fuss about everything. At least in the movie she smiles once in a while. Plus she's hot!
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"Less is always more, and I think that's why Star Wars A New Hope was and still is the grand champion of examining archetypes."
if you believe that then you really ought to watch Kurosawa's HIDDEN FORTRESS. -
I always felt Hidden Fortress was more just a stolen plot, and perspective, being changed from the funny peasants, to the funny robots.
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I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I read all of this hype surrounding the movie adaptation of the "greatest graphic novel of all time" and "the top 100 books of the 20th century", so I read the synopsis of the book. I thought to myself "and?". Well now I have seen the movie and I have the same question. I don't know if I have the interest to pick up the book and figure out what everyone loves about it.
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You fucking retard. "WHat is so great about the book? I read the cover and it wasn't so hot. Then I saw the movie and I'm totally not impressed with the book."
Read the book numbskull. -
That won me from the beginning.
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While I won't berate you like Autodidact, I will say that reading the cover synopsis is akin to doing the same to Hamlet and going, "Meh." Yes, I did compare it to Hamlet. The movie (which I liked) did not even scratch the surface of the complexities of the relationships, psychies, and motivations of the characters. I haven't met one person who didn't at least admire the narrative of the book. And that list includes comic geeks and non comic geeks. The rule is read it once to know what happens, then read it again to know WHY it happens.
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I liked it very much.
Here's the full review... http://brattyben.deviantart.com/ -
Watchmen, like many of you, holds a place in my heart. Not only is it the first graphic novel I ever read, but it kick started my passion for visual storytelling across a variety of mediums. It even inspired me to become an artist in the entertainment industry, and 4 years later I'm doing just that. To put it bluntly, Watchmen had a hand in making me what I am today.
After walking out the movie I felt that I watched something that looked, sounded and acted like Watchmen. However, it didn't feel like Watchmen. With all it's brawn and brains, I felt it lacked heart. I give kudos to the whole team of Watchmen (Zach Synder is just one of MANY who helped shape this) for taking the material seriously and putting a lot of effort into it. It was a work of passion and it shows.
Things that rocked...
1. Rorschach freaking out in Moloch's apt. when the cops arrive. (finally a hero who isn't always at the ready)
2. Dr. Manhatten's voice wasn't what I originally heard in my head, but I liked it. (the CG on the otherhand...)
3. The attention to detail used for all of Night Owls gadgets. (Bruce Wayne would be jealous)
4. Rorschach's delivery of "..it isn't I who am locked up with all of you, but all of you who are locked up with me!" (Perfection)
5. Seeing Rorschach carrying that sign without his mask in certain scenes. (something most non-comic book fans would miss the first time)
6. Having actual sets, compared to 300's CG overload, helped everything feel more like it actually exisited.
7. The ending while different, still did the job. (although I still wanna see a bad ass squid someday)
Overall, It's a good movie, not a great one. (hopefully the director's cut adds more story to the characters) However I'm glad it was treated with more respect then most adapted comic book movies. It deserves it. :)
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really the only thing I knew about the series is that one of the superheroes gets murdered, one of them thinks that someone thinks there is a conspiracy to gun down the other watchmen. I know, not enough to make a sound judgment about the work. But I thought that on some level, the movie would give me some sense of what is so great about the book. And it just didn't. Some of it was really good, and I agree about the opening credits, but I still don't think I "get it" yet. It was just a really solid movie, imho. Good enough to inspire me to read the source material? No, probably not.
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actually i'm pretty good at sports, american sports are easy. and i finished high school a few years ago. fucking americans. I don't need to try to be one of the cool kids, I don't have darth in my name and I listen to mogwai and cult of luna. and i'm not american. I already am cooler than you.
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have you read the comic? it specifically states by the time he's naked that he thinks clothing is irrelevant. should have been in the movie but maybe do some research before assuming things.
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I really love this movie. I've heard all the hype and most of the reviews and know what I still love it. I own the original 12 issues still bagged in their baggies with the cardboard backing and after re reading it since a few years ago, I still love it. Most of these "fanboys" in my opinion that are bitchin' about this crap and that crap know what SHUT UP!!! seriously this is a great freaking movie, if you are a true fan of the genre you'll know I'm telling the truth! I have not seen a movie based on superheroes taken to this height, and to be honest this was more honest to the material than Dark Knight was. In conclusion appreciate and start loving the era we are in know. The Era when comics are taken seriously and awe inspiring content is created from them. Zack Snyder you are awesome man, seriously!
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Mar 08, 2009 3:03:51 AM CDT
Snookeroo - you are one of the dumbest posters on aicn
by most excellent ninja
so maybe shut up saying the movie ending made more sense than the book. you're just not very intelligent.
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Stay gold, messi, you crazy sonuvabitch.
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That the majority of people complaining about the lack of a Squid ending are the same ones who blasted Snyder for not being able to provide any, "Soul" to his projects.
I also find it incredibly sad that anyone would try to defend this viewpoint by trying say that the squid was anything more than a mere gimmick. The Squid is about as important to what's actually going on in Watchmen as the true identity of the contents in the briefcase is in Pulp Fiction. If, after 20 years, people can't understand that, then they probably missed the point Watchmen was suggesting in the first place. -
wow. you're a fucking idiot.
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I just saw Watchmen. I have to say I liked it quite a bit. I think that it is the best Adaptation one could ask for given the dense source material it originates from. You know me, I’m a geek. A superhero fan boy and always have been. I’ve read the book maybe eight or nine times, posted on AICN a few hundred, and this movie has been reviewed far more times by much better writers than me so I am not even going to try, but I wanted to see what the average joe thought of Watchmen and so for the last few hours I’ve been trolling the net at movie sites reading reviews. Man, I have laughed my ass off at the general viewing public. I don’t think the plebs had any clue what they were getting into with this flick. Truly funny, funny shit out there. “Its not like X-Men,” was my favorite. No its not, thank God. The general consensus from the viewing public was a lot of walk outs because “there was no story,” or “too much blue penis,” skinemax sex scene, “Comedian is a rapist,” or “Comedian shot a pregnant woman,” and the ever gullible; “it wasn’t an action movie,” “I’ll never get those 2 and ½ hours/$10 back,” it goes on and on. Oh, man, I don’t think Watchmen is going to do well after its first weekend, but you know what I say to all these assholes? “Fuck’em if they can’t take a joke.” Watchmen is meant to make you think; politically, socially, ethically, hell even spiritually. The average moviegoer HATES to think. They want superhero SLAM, POW, BOP, WHAM!!! Watchmen kicks you in the balls and goes after your head with a tack hammer. The movie pulled that off. Snyder is a fanboy breed on Heavy Metal and it shows. One reviewer even railed about having his kids with him and not knowing that there would be such blood and sex, ”Hey fuckhead why do you think it was rated R, why the hell’d you bring the rug rats anyway?!” I love, “the there was no story so I left” thing, “well if you don’t stay till the end it doesn’t wrap itself up by the funeral does it?” As for “too much blue penis,” I say, “Grow the fuck up.” All in all this reaction makes me happy. It just means we the people that know the story and love it will get our extended cut DVDs and Blue Rays all the sooner. All I can say is thank you Warner Brothers for allowing us to have an adult comic book movie. Most studios would have bailed at the mention of blue penis. Thank you DC as well, and Mr. Moore (I hope you at least see this one, it is worth it) But seriously WB earned some props from me on this one, I hope they continue to be this loyal to the rest of the DC pantheon as the years pass they do seem to at least be trying with Green Lantern and Green Arrow from what I have heard. Good job Zack and co, I was well pleased.
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I saw it today. I think I'll need to see it twice to let it all sink in, but overall I was very pleased. The changes to the story worked in it's favor actually, and the ending actually makes a hell of a lot more sense then the original.
Haley, Crudup, Wilson and Morgan give great performances and they really help sell the movie.
My complaints are minor: I didn't like the song choices, esp for the sex scene, which is soooo awkward and goofy (despite Ackerman's amazing body), and Matthew Goode doesn't have the acting chops or the authority to fully own his role. Ackerman isn't great but she's not a train wreck.
I thought the Matrix-y fight scenes were a bit distracting, but they hold your attention.
I know many are complaining that the film is clinical or cold, but to be honest the comic wasn't exactly a warm hug of an experience so I don't feel that comparison is warranted.
Snyder did a very good job. I went into the film cautiously optimistic, and I felt it was worth the wait.
I also feel the directors cut will make it an even better film, although I didn't find myself feeling pained for the material that was cut.
3 1/2 out of 5 stars
And one final note, all the critics and folks freaking out Dr Manhattan's cock need some growing up to do, or to question their sexuality lol. No big deal, and not distracting.
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If the squid elicited laughter then it should have done it in the book too, but it's considered a masterpiece. You think the concept would make people laugh, but with hundreds of bodies around it, people would be more shocked than laughing.
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and relax. This is not the greatest story ever told..but damn it's a good novel and they did a great job of bringing it to the big screen. Nuff said!
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You always surprise me by how funny you are "...But I'll never watch Two Towers and especially Return Of The King ever again. Snyders a better film maker than Jackson." HAHAHAHAHAH most fucking retarded thing ever uttered on aicn. I don't know why you love this movie that is clearly not the masterpiece you make it out to be, but The Two Towers is a film masterpiece, flows like a real film. Directed with grandeur. And Snyder a better filmmaker than Jackson??? HAHAHAHA. Fucking lost cunt. total apologist. Watchmen is very flawed, just look at this thread even those who like it have problems with it.
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i think the movie will play better on dvd/blu-ray, allowing the viewer to watch at his/her own pace and after watching the wrestler again, and this is no slight to zack, but i wish aranofsky had taken a real crack at the movie
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Keep fightin the good fight. You're good people.
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dude, you are a legend here. unfortunately when you get dumbasses like those on the baleback talkback shit around here's changed. I think shit went downhill when dickblood showed up. you'd think as more culturally resonant viewers of a movie site they'ed be less inclined to think like mainstream people in regards to what Bale did, but they don't. Just shows they're idiots.
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want to know why there was no tension? and it wasnt zack's fault...its was the medium because of time constraints, he was forced to cut out almost all of the minor charactersit was through their eyes that we really saw the world...it was through their words that we got the feeling of doom, not through the nihilism of the main characters and it was their bodies that we see in that splash page in the book...and that is what forced the reader to care...and that is what made the book special except for "marvels" almost everyone in the comic industry missed this point, and started going with dark heroes with feet of clay i dont think zack missed this (i think the writers did tho) but i dont think he could figure out a way to get it in watch the scene with the detectives....in the book, the scene pans down to the street, where we see the end is nigh guy, the blood and the city...in the book, the scene pans up, giving us a cityscape....its the wrong perspective
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want to know why there was no tension? and it wasnt zack's fault...its was the medium because of time constraints, he was forced to cut out almost all of the minor charactersit was through their eyes that we really saw the world...it was through their words that we got the feeling of doom, not through the nihilism of the main characters and it was their bodies that we see in that splash page in the book...and that is what forced the reader to care...and that is what made the book special except for "marvels" almost everyone in the comic industry missed this point, and started going with dark heroes with feet of clay i dont think zack missed this (i think the writers did tho) but i dont think he could figure out a way to get it in watch the scene with the detectives....in the book, the scene pans down to the street, where we see the end is nigh guy, the blood and the city...in the book, the scene pans up, giving us a cityscape....its the wrong perspective
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In the fanboy community there are purists, realists, and zealots. Before you post ask yourself which one are you and which one is the person you're about to slam... I have no clue what Dick_Blood is, but God bless him I do love his flare, and fear him on a molecular level.
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Yeah it's a cheap crack I know specially as I really liked the wrestler but boy did he run THAT particular piece of camerawork into the ground.
I'll say it again though, I thought the Watchmen Movie was Good. Not a masterpiece, not terrible, not meh, but GOOD. That is THE MOVIE as a whole watched in a sitting.
There is brilliant bits in it with Rorschach and Manhattan but there are also the occasional bits where I wondered WTF Snyder was up to and bits where it was "doing the job" but no more than that.
So as a whole GOOD. At no point was I bored and even at the bits I most had a problem with they were still interesting because they made me think of the Comic.
I'll see it again because it needs more than one watch and I'll definitely be getting the Extended DVD. But I KNOW there will be parts of this Movie I will end up watching FAR more than other parts.
That's just how it turned out. But be in no doubt a Good (not great, not shit, not astounding) Watchmen Movie still kicks the living shit out of most of the Movies you will see this year for sheer imagination and visual impact because you DO see much of the Blockbuster Cash that went into this right there on the screen. -
The opening credits were breathtaking bliss.
Anyone who doesn't think so clearly has their head up their ass, cigarette in mouth, smoke blowing into the farthest reaches of their lower intestines. -
With Spam Jackson as Silk Spectre I, and Will Smiff as Silk Spectre II
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zack didnt sleep walk through the production...it was a labor of love i just think zack is lacking in some areas, and i wish he wouldve let laurie smoke...fuck this pc bullshit
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Really? Was that so phenomenal a plot point that it couldn't be excluded, or are you just nitpicking because you're against "the man?" How cool.
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Im not locked in her with you! You are all locked in her with me!
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and her smoking shows how far away she is from her adventuring days, and how unhappy she is with her relationship with the doc...its symbolic....can you dig?
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wow, you wrote pretty much what I feel. I never really thought about emotional weight in a movie before but I get it now. Really, a general audience wouldn't even really get the fact that Rorschach was a normal DC style crimefighter but then lost all faith and became more like The Punisher. Choppy and it ruins the overall movie by making it less important than what it really is. Far less depth. A very dumb version. Admirable yes. Maybe 2 directors should have been brought on. Snyder to do it and another to fix it as a film.
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the problem with the miniseries is what everyone has brought up. there is no way that HBO could have the production design and the scope etc, and if it's just going to be a direct adaptation for the sake of a direct adaptation, what's the point? just read the comic. What should have been done is a great adaptation.
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Sinestro Corps War may take the cake for best superhero story in a superhero sense. Kingdom Come doesn't come close.
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that's her character. I dont get this, as if suddenly there are no whiny and annoying people on the planet. there is a point to this or we might as well make every character in every movie sexy and likable. idiots everywhere.
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best superhero arc ever...and i mean ever was o'neil and adams, green arrow/green latern
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Excellent
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you're right, but i'm just saying i'm glad they changed it because it was so annoying.
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Like tahts a bad thing.
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Like tahts a bad thing.
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I'm saying this as a guy who hasn't read the GN. It was brilliant from start to finish.
The ONLY flaw was the old-age makeup, and THAT'S FUCKING IT.
Everything else was top notch.
Mindblowing visuals, great acting, well chosen cast, great music, a great story obviously, "depth", demanded attention from the viewer,
pulled no punches...
After it was over I actually wanted it to keep going, it was so awesome.
I'm def gonna pick up the DC version when it comes out -
How could the meatiest graphic novel of all time translate into 2 1/2 hours of empty calories and processed sugar? This was so mind-numbing, so limp, so lifeless and so unimaginatively paint-by-numbers I actually shut my eyes and pretended I was at the dentist for a few minutes. I can accept the fact that my finding the film ugly and garish to be subjective. You like glowing blue and orange cgi colors mushed together all over the screen? Fine, no accounting for taste. What I don't understand is how a shallow, cliffs notes adaptation with almost zero interest in what's actually happening in any given scene can gin up so much slobbering fanboy enthusiasm? The whole movie plays out as a checklist for chrissakes. It's like vacationing with the Griswalds, You hit every national park along the way but you never make time to stop and enjoy any of them because each one is just another notch in the belt. Fuck this mindless bloodlust masquerading as some kind of critique of mindless bloodlust. Just because you lift philosophical suppositions from the page doesn't mean you're posing philosophical questions. Zach Snyder doesn't get Watchmen but he's spent so much money on a slick new paintjob (I guess? the look of this made me want to vomit my insides out) that apparently the shoddy construction job has been covered up. Just don't look too closely and watch your step. Enjoy!
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It was just "ok" - which is the worst thing it could have been. It'll be largely forgotten about in a few years, gathering dust on geeks' blu-ray shelves.
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but you gotta admit, condensing 40 years of alternate history into 6 mins to the strains of Bob Dylan was nothing less than film genius.
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movie was way better than the comic? fucking dumb cunt
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that stuff really took me out of the movie. especially the "old" silk spectre. She looked about the same age as her frickkin daughter!
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maybe you should read the book before saying "Where I think the book and comic fail is that they're so nail on the head with trying to play archetypes against each other, and not giving you what you thought would happen, that it almost becomes preachy." because he book plays it differently. and whilst they are are suggestive archtypes of batman, superman etc they are more directly the Charlton characters.
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Mar 08, 2009 5:02:39 AM CDT
slaughterstorm represents the dumb mainstream idiot
by most excellent ninja
enjoy reading your celebrity magazines you unintelligent cunt.
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ever think that it just wasn't that great an adaptation. the book is amazing. feel free to stay stupid if you think it's not worth picking up. idiot.
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Its like a paint by numbers with full color illustrations of garish and disgusting images outside the borders.
you'd simply ask yourself .... "why!?!" -
are you serious? Look I like the social political arc they did, it's important to comic history and quality in and of itself, but it is dated and sort of what's the word, when something is associated with it's time and place and not 'anachronistic'. But Sinestro Corps War is just a damn good entertaining pure story. Full of adventure, suspense, awesome moments and godlike pacing. it reminded me why I love Star Wars so much even if it's a Green Lantern story. Greatest Star Wars story since Empire Strikes Back
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Mar 08, 2009 5:14:28 AM CDT
I fear the thought of an extended edition...
by the penultimate gunslinger
... wasn't the movie long enough already? Why does every movie have to be so fucking long these days? Do we really need Black Freighter segments inserted to over-complicate an already over-complicated plot? I suppose the only people buying this edition would be fans of the graphic novel anyways, so that's ok I guess - anyone else would be confused as hell. I love the graphic novel, but this film got a big "meh" from me, and adding more bullshit isn't going to change that.
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i really hate movie goers like you...its fucks like you that get studios to give star trek to jj abrams, who has taken what was a character driven series, and has made what appears to be a cgi fest...woopee fuckin doo use the little imagination you have and think...would the original silk spectre have allowed herself to get old and frumpy as she appeared in the comic? sure she was a drunk, but there is this thing called plastic surgery...but who cares...she played the role like gloria swanson...she was fine...the cgi was fine
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I went to see it after seeing the first few minutes at BNAT and I have to say this: The movie was too freaking long. It could have been at least an hour shorter. Screw being faithful to the book, that is what the directors-cut DVD is for, a movie needs to FLOW from beginning to end seamlessly and Watchmen did NOT flow like it should have... It will get a lot of praise from fans, but it just isn't that great.
the BEST part of the entire movie was Jackie Earle Haley's take on Rorschach, which just blew me away... I don't know who makes a better psychopath, Ledger or JEH... I know a lot of people are praising him, and he deserves praise, but I'm not walking away from this movie thinking Billy Crudup's Dr. Manhattan was all that memorable... Oscars probably won't look very favorably on this movie (which is proper, it wasn't really 'Oscar' worthy) but not seeing JEH nominated would just be disappointing. Do I think it was worth the money to see it? Probably. Was it worth my time and energy going to the theater to see this? Maybe. -
Hey calm down man. From the reviews I've read I think a lot of people agree with me on the old silk spectre. Some of the cgi was fine, yes. Doctor Manhattan looked awesome. Just some bits were glaringly naff. I'm talking about Doc's giant glass ship thing on Mars mainly. I just thought it looked like the cgi had been done in the 1990s with that bit.
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I agree, was too long. What worked in an episodic comic just didn't work as a narrative in the film - and the plot felt a bit meandering and pointless most of the time.
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....equals win.
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the comic has a lady smoking. Smoking as we all know is cool. The movie had no smoking. Ergo the comic is cooler than the movie. I rest my case!
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meant we missed out on a cheesy joke when the pressed the fire button because she needed a light in the comic. Instead (in the movie) she presses it because she is a ditsy female and wonders what this button does? This makes her seem more weak and ruins her character somewhat, thus interfering with the flow of the film (also) somewhat. That is why I care about the smoking. Nitpicking aside the movie was better than I expected 7 out of 10. A fine effort!
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And WOW, soooooo much symbolism in SMOKING! Let's over-analyze everything!
Okay, okay um....the V in "Veidt?" SYMBOLISM! V UPSIDE-DOWN = PYRAMID!!!!
GENIUS. -
... in the blue dong??? I think it stmbolises the blueness of humanity and the dong we use to fight the forces of good and evil inside our own souls.
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I was distracted by my own dong glowing blue. Maybe I should see a doctor...
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you are a fucking idiot. It need at least 15 mins more.
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this movie wasn't even that long, about the same length as There will be Blood, hell only a couple of minutes longer than Transformers. The Godfather was 175 mins. Fellowship was 178 mins. Godfather part 2 was 3 hours and a half!!! Fuck you all.
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I've been hearing and reading a lot of praise for the opening Bob Dylan sequence. Gabba UK, above, says, "condensing 40 years of alternate history into 6 mins to the strains of Bob Dylan was nothing less than film genius," whereas I thought it was done just as well if not better in Forrest Gump.
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isnt smoking some sort of freudian oral fixation type thing that can be traced back to breast feeding and/or issues with your mother. So when Laurie was smoking at the start of the comic didn't it subconsiously parallel her poor relationship with her mum which added another layer to her character that was missing in the film. Eh just a thought.
And isnt an upside down pyramid sybolism of a ladies private parts?? Ahem... -
Along with how Snyder treated Doc Manhattan and The Comedian, were absolutely perfect, if not an elevation of the original material. Now if only we could see all those extra scenes of all the normal people that get impacted by Oz's attack. Like the guy that owns the news stand, the kid reading the comic, and the grumpy lesbian. That was some great stuff that instilled a sense of humanity in a book that otherwise was very involved with some fairly fucked up people wearing tights. But other than that, a good effort. Good thing those credits were on here. I would easily have paid all over again just to rewatch them on the big screen.
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...then the Watchmen movie got the sweet candy coating down, but left out the apple. The film looked like the comic for sure, with images and scenes taken right out of the books. Zach Snyder is a talented visual action filmmaker for sure, but unfortunately, he isn't smart enough to take liberties with Alan Moore's work that elevate the story, but instead dumb it down to summer blockbuster action movie. There were hints and glimmers of it throughout the film, but failed to be part of a cohesive whole. Though I thought the Bob Dylan opening was a bit Forrest Gumpy, I still liked it. I liked the sequence with Dr. Manhattan set to Philip Glass-style (I believe it was "Einstein on the Beach" being ripped). I liked Rorschach. But between scenes like those where too many idiot insertions which brought it all down, such as overlong fight scenes better served in the Matrix or Old Boy, an overlong sex scene done better on late night Skinemax, a cheesy attempt to humanize Dr. Manhattan accomplished more convincingly in T2, and weak confusing use of period music done better in, again Forrest Gump, and say, any Martin Scorsese film (what the heck was up with playing Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" in the final scene?).
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The 9 panel/page sequencing of Watchmen's story and action was an important element of what set it apart from typical super-hero action comic stories of the day. No splash pages, very few larger panels. In contrast, Zach Snyder's filmmaking style is nothing but typical, which kills the untypical-ness of Alan Moore's original work. I understand one reason for all the slow motion work in the movie was to emphasize to everyone "hey, my movie looks just like the comic book!", but doesn't Snyder realize that its overuse in action movies these days makes the Watchmen movie look just like everything else, or was that his intention? Either way, Alan Moore's request to take his name off this film was justified in the end. The film was not faithful to the spirit or the genius of Mr. Moore's 12 part opus.
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New ending was great, because it was really tied to the characters. Manhatten is a far more horrible threat, than the squid could ever be. Just because he is God. He himself may not think so, but the world public stuck with the idea. All the cultural and religious angst, that drove mankind for thousands of years comes to an apocalyptic conclusion, when everyone (atheist, buddhist, christian, muslim, agnostic, whatever else there is) has to realize, that God not only exists, but has ultimately turned against his creation in anger. A squid on the other hand is just the incarnation of some lovecraftian Sci-Fi-bullshit. Remember who was there, to invent the thing for Veidt? Kidnapped comic book authors, guys like that. The squid is a geek-joke. Sure, New York streets, littered with dead bodies, that's one heavy image. But in an abstract sense, God becoming visible and wrathfully turning against man (as framed by Veidt) is maybe the most terrifying thought, one could possibly imagine. So, Mr.Moore... someone thought it over and did it way better. Sorry to all of you haters for touching your holy grail.
That said, I thought the Mars-CGI could have been a lot better. I hope for more Manhatten-thoughts in the phenomenon of time itself. I hope for more Rorschach/psychiatrist-talk. And I definitly hope for more Veidt-background. There was hardly enough explanation of his manic Alexander-obsession, his idea of Ozymandias as an antique leader, sacrificing some to unite his kingdom (reminds me of the emperor of Qin in HERO, who wages war to unite 'all under the sky'). There is depth to Veidt, that is only glimpsed at in the movie. Extended cut better has some more of these things.
By the way, what is it with all you people talking about Manhattens dick? What the heck, you all have one. at least you're supposed to. What's so terrifying about it? What's it with all this Snyder-sure-is-a-homo-talk? It's just the way it is: Manhatten as a being who can watch through time and space does not care about feelings of shame. He barely recognizes what clothes are for at all. What don't you get about it? This penis-angst is definitly very american, is it? -
...it could've been "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" all over again. As Two-Face says in The Dark Knight Returns, "at least both sides match."
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Rethinking it, by being so slavish to the source, WB really made a lackluster movie that could easily have been a crowd pleaser, and had people clapping in the aisles. Its so long and weighed down that things seem to just move on plotwise because they are required to. The Nite Owl Silk Specter breakout of Rorshach(Oooh Mr Kotter!!!!) should of been a thing of joy instead of just happening. Music Score wasn't very good.
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Other than upgrading Akerman's merely serviceable performance [I never realized exactly how many GN scenes that character is critical in until they were put on screen] to something better, is to add more Hollis. I slept on it and this morning asked myself, "Did you credit the movie for being better than it was because of content from the book that you were 'adding back in' inappropriately?" And there's only one instances of that, really - but it's a big one. You need Hollis, and some of the events covered in Hollis' journal, to believe that people would have seen these characters as heroes to begin with. You need to see at least some indication that Hooded Justice, Nite Owl 1, and the young Comedian were actually doing at least quasi-heroic things at the outset. They tried to do that with the credit sequence, so I guess they touched the base, but there's more detail to it in the GN and that provides some needed balance. Without that, it seems unlikely to me that anyone would have ever considered the Comedian anything other than a villain. [Although I will say that there's one little dialogue change in the scene where the Comedian cries to Moloch that humanizes Blake a little, and implies that he, like Kovacs, was pushed over the edge by the things he saw and the things he felt compelled to do, and that there was a time when he wasn't such a psychotic monster.]
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I was just overwhelmed by the realization that this story was coming to cinematic life before me. I NEVER imagined back in high school that this graphic novel would ever be accepted by the mainstream, even enough for a low budget picture. The times, they are certainly a-changin.
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Excellent choice of music, if you ask me.
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--Yout said it, pal. I was TomBodet and Ingagi38 and GoatZinger for ages here, there are Most Certainly some reallll thin skinned mods in these here parts--one must go Lightly upon the Ice ere falling thru seems to me. Nice to see ya around--
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I thought she was just OK, nothing Horrible, to be honest. You need a body to fill out that uni and she does that. Apparently Jessica Biel was up for the role a few years back? Any thoughts--?
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" They want superhero SLAM, POW, BOP, WHAM!!! "That was actually some of my non-fanboy family members' complaint about THIS movie.Especially the ending. Good god. But not me. At least the with respect to the ' biff ', ' bam ', ' pow ' thing.People don't talk about this much yet, but this may just be the first superhero film that ACTUALLY PLAYS OUT LIKE IT WOULD IN TRADITIONAL COMICS ! Where everyone is practically beyond normal strength, destroy walls upon their reckoning, and deliberately resolves issues through heightened fighting by virtue of nothing but their physicality , not just by manner of consequence or denouement( no warped reality bullshit, either ), in a way that is perfectly legit. A film that finally doesn't cheat its way out of this through segueways into OTHER, more accepted genre approach. ( The Abomination vs. Hulk fight was more a CGI King Kong or monster movie variant ). The whole thing proceeds like how classic superhero artists would draw it, it's great !
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I was a fan of Charlton comics as a kid anyway. I read the book once a long time ago and the most poignant moments were there.
Leave the kids at home. -
Is a fine writer, a great comic book writer, and a snotty fanboy geek (takes one to know one-- well not really). I sincerely hope that he never sees this movie, as I suspect he never will. He certainly wouldn't enjoy it. He thinks that spending 100million dollars to make a comic book into a movie is obscene. (related to the fact that he has, apparently, astonishingly, ABSOLUTELY no idea of what money is or its role in the world-- see the later chapters of Marvelman/Miracleman) (sadly we may all be receiving an education here... but that's another subject)
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Obviously made by someone who loves the book, but who is maybe not that smart a reader. The movie continually aped the style and content of the book, but only on a surface level. Lines, scenes portrayed out of context, come off as ridiculous, juvenile, or just plain confusing to anyone who hasn't read the book. It was much more childish than the comic book.Terrible performances across the board, except for Rorschach. Maybe Billy Crudup gave a decent performance; who can tell? The look of the movie was silly and CGI'd-- look how the Vietnam in 'Watchmen' resembles Max Fischer's Vietnam stage play in 'Rushmore.' Slow, scattershot, and without a consistent tone or mood, with silly, overblown action-scenes and a real lack of anything adult that made the comic so good; such as its philosophical and metaphysical discussion of the nature of man and the universe. Here, the filmmaker seems to think that showing a tit and a bunch of blood equals 'adult.'Really, really bad, but clearly made by someone whose heart was in the right place. Their head was just in fourth grade.
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...Two Towers is half a great film. Everything with Gollum and Frodo is perfect. Everything else is retarded dog shit that isn't even in the book, and for good reason. Jacksons made 4 partly great films in his career. Bad Taste, Feebles, Brain Dead and Fellowship. He's also made King Kong, Return Of The King, Two Towers and The Frighteners, all awful. I guess the fake doco counts too, and that was pretty fucking great. Snyder is three for three. Three perfect adaptations that were better and more daring than they had any right to be, and at the very least in Watchmen, he displays far more film making acumen than Jackson ever has. Have to admit I agree with everyone regarding Dan and Laurie killing the gang members. Horribly wounding them, etc, fine. But killing them without blinking sort of undermines the threat of Rorsach. Then again, he set polce on fire. Also, without the Squid ending, is there any point to reinstating the black freighter into the extended cut?
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It's going to bomb, largely. Several people walked out the theater and didn't come back.
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I think Snyder really did do the best job you probably can do as far as turning Watchmen into a film. The CGI all looked great to me and I didn't see where either the Nixon make-up or on the old Silk Specter looked as terrible as some were saying. I loved the faithfulness to the panels from the book. As far as the ending, I like the new one better. It makes WAY more sense. I know he will never admit it, but I think this is much closer to if not THE ending Moore originally had in mind. Think about it--does it really make any sense at all in the book that just when Doctor Manhattan reconnects with humanity and considers every human being to be a miracle that he would then immediately choose to leave the galaxy? No, it really doesn't. But him HAVING to leave in order to save all the 'miracles' makes much more sense. And how amazing is JEH?! He totally OWNED the role of Rorschach. Very good job, maybe even great overall. Further viewings will decide...
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which proves in the best way, that Mr Moore was right all this time,arguin that his masterpiece is unfilmable.
Now what remains is to see,how it goes in the boxoffice.just to get an idea how it will accepted by the average cinephil,comic fan or not. -
While I certainly would never consider box office earnings to indicate anything about a films' quality I see people keep asking. It made $25.1 million on Friday. It'll top $60 for the weekend. Next weekend is the one that will tell the tale.
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The only yardstick I use when watching a movie. No detailed scene-by-scene analysis, acting critique, deconstruction...
To quote Gladiator, "Are you entertained?"
Yes indeed. I was well entertained. -
That puts it on pace for the biggest R rated opening ever, anyway...
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just read Nietzsches Superman,and u ll understand its signifance.
start with some info here:http://tinyurl.com/b79jqa
to say it simple,it symbolizes Dr Manhatan as a true superman,not just a man with superpowers,but a man who is beyond the social,moral,religious,political etc restrains of humanity.
why mr manhatan is blue,i believe that the color was an artistic choice by gibbons.it alienates manhatan from the other human characters,while blending smoothly with the rest color pallet of the comic. -
...I think you're wrong about the film. I loved it. Thought it was great. But you are right about it bombing. The hype is so huge that it will probably make its money back...But goddamn, the crowd I was with (normal friday night date crowd) fucking loathed it. As I said before, AT LEAST 12 walkouts (the ones I noticed) and these were grab your date, pick up your shit and march out walk outs. Plenty of angry negativity from the people chatting on the way out.
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Not knowing anything about the Watchmen going in I had no expectations, I truly enjoyed every minute of this film. And now I get the pleasure of going out and grabbing the graphic novel, can't wait to read it!
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...Will be a real test to see if he's made of the right stuff. Its an original script he wrote, it sounds fucking awesome on paper, but even more likely to turn into a disaster than Watchmen, even though its got a pretty interesting cast.
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...at my 7pm Friday evening show appeared to be mostly positive. We had a few people leave, but it was no more than the amount of people who walked out of The Wrestler or Slumdog when I saw those. Some people don't like stuff.That said I still don't know if it will be a "hit". it;s gonna have a pretty big opening weekend, but it might fall off drasically next weekend. We'll see. Personally, I don't really give a fuck because I have no financial stake in it's success. I also don't give a fuck if every other person on Earth hated it. I've been waiting 20 years to see it. I loved it. In my personal worldview that makes it a success.
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Snyder for the fuckin' WIN. I can't believe it, but he actually did it; not only did he do it, he hit a GRANDSLAM homerun. Can't wait for the 3 hour 30 minute dvd.
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I felt so good when I saw the same scene from the book, when the audience had a collective orgasm when they heard Rorscach's voice again and the credits roll
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have u ever grasped at what transpires in the comic,or at least read it?
because frankly,u sir have no clue and u r definitely not a real fan of the GN.a fan of BOOM,KABOOM,POW ETC but not of something more serious.tough. -
I think overall I liked it but I felt the ending was weak compared to the comics.
I liked all of the actors (especially Jackie Earl Haley, Patrick Wilson and Jeffrey Dean Morgan) and I felt the film succeeded most in the areas it hewed as close to the comics as possible. Although the Comedian killing Kennedy was a great idea (IIRC that wasn't in the comics). In fact the inexorable march towards World War III that overlaid everything actually worked better here than in the comics I thought. I did love the subtle flash inside Ozy's base as he beamed the generators away just after Archie crashed too.
I am somewhat indifferent about the ending though. It does essentially give us the same ending but I did want to see squid. Furthermore, I think Ozy should have been a bit happier at the end. I know he had doubts, but I don't think the great success he had achieved was conveyed as well as it could have been. Plus, I wanted to see blond Dreiberg with 'tache and blond Laurie in sunny California for the ending, not sure why they changed that.
Overall, I think I will need to see it again a few times, to really decide how much I liked it. Currently the disappointing ending is freshest in my memory but for much of the rest of the film I was loving every second and grinning like an idiot. So it's a question of whether I can get to like the ending I think. -
I am glad I saw it because it is based on a seminal work, and parts of the movie works beautifully. But, just like the first Harry Potter - the director felt a slavish need to incorporate everything possible into the movie, and as a result, most of the time it felt like the comic pages brought to half-life, insetad of a full blown fleshed out movie character life. The book is magnificent, the movie trys mightily to honor it, but is just falls flat too often, with the occasional great moment. And it is just too darn long, and no I do not think adding 15 or 30 minute more will do the trick - just make it longer and more boring.
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Saw this last night and while some of it was good, I felt more restless as the movie went on cause I was being bored. Too long, or rather boring.
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It's just enough time for me to forget, which is cool cuz forgetting makes reading WATCHMEN very enjoyable. In fact, the reason I forget so much is that the story is so densely packed with information. As an immersive experience it really is brilliant and probably doesn't translate well to the screen, therefore I'm going to wait for the directors cut, if I ever see the movie. As for it's fate, I fear that the story is just too plain bizarre for the mass-market and people won't respond.
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DOTD, 300, am I missing any?
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I don't think any of us understood what that gibberish you just typed said or to whom it was directed.
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Went into the movie yesterday not knowing what to expect, appart from what I'd seen in the trailers. And I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed it. A great deconstruction of the superhero mythos. How we need heroes, how we treat heroes, how some heroes react to their status, what motivates them, how some use their abilities for good and some use them with indiference or downright distain. It really covered all the bases, and it answered one of my all time favourite superhero paradoxes: would a "superman" that could go anywhere or do anything even still give a shit about humanity and what happens to it?
It's one of those films that deserves a repeat viewing. It's busy and dense and full of questions that long for difinitive answers, yet definitive answers are not what they'll get. I love movies like that. They're challenging. And, not knowing much about the Watchmen graphic novel, I think Zack Snyder has made a more than competent film that more than satisfies the interested viewer. Good work. With Iron Man, TDK and now this, I think we can safely say that the comic book movie has come of age. -
Mar 08, 2009 10:28:34 AM CDT
Best movie since The Dark Knight, loved every single moment
by lavatory love machine
and I specially love how the movie clearly divides smart audiences from morons, who don't get it, can't find any meaning on it beyond the surface and say that it's bad....it's brilliant
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...I read the comic. Not a big fan of it. Like most of Moores stuff, its clever but emotionally dead. I loved the film, but that may have alot to do with basically what we get offered in both medium. I have a plethora of fantastic and mind bending comic books filled with amazing ideas and imagery. Unfortunately (especially with modern mainstream cinema) the same can't be said of what I get to witness on the big screen. I mean shit, I had to wait for the Blade Runner re-release to see some truly eye bleeding sci fi on the big screen. Even if or when they make such far out stuff as Watchmen, half the time its something you have to catch on DVD.
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... didn't disappoint me because it's not the tentacled monster from the book. The change eliminated at least a 1/2 hour's worth of set-up (and the most convoluted plot point in the story). I think they could have come up with a better idea then Manhattan bombs (How controlled were these explosions? One went off in midtown NYC but visibly did not reach even the Empire State Building! Another goes off in Los Angeles but doesn't affect Sally Jupiter.), but I have other complaints about the ending.1. I don't like Rorschach's first "Do it" to Doc Manhattan. It sounded like pleading, as if he agreed the world would be a better place with Adrian's lie and since Rorschach can't compromise he needs to die. I think that Rorschach had no doubt in his mind that the lie needed to be exposed, and realizing there was no getting around Manhattan, demands that this "hero" kill one of his own in the name of this noble lie.2. Why does Nite Owl start beating on Ozy and why does Ozy take it? I suspect it's a ham-fisted attempt to position Nite Owl as the "hero" of the movie, giving him something proactive to do even if its a meaningless gesture. But why does Ozy, after kicking all of their asses for twenty minutes, suddenly start taking hits. Is this his idea of retribution? 3. The most important difference is we are robbed of Ozy's real punishment: uncertainty. Without his and Doc's chat, where the near-god refuses to assure the smartest man that his plan will be successful "in the end", we are robbed of that great moment of doubt in Ozy's face.Did I mention I mostly loved this movie? It's so much easier to focus on the parts that didn't work because the parts that do work mostly don't call attention to themselves. But I think Snyder got this 80% percent down and am willing to bet that I'll be bumping that up to 90% or more when the extended cut comes out.
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I've read the GN about a dozen times, realize that it was designed as a comic and that many of the tricks Moore and Gibbons used are unfilmable, that ANY adaptation is going to have to truncate things and change things, and am astonished by how close it is to the GN. Some of the music cues were off, imho, but overall? Its a fuckin' triumphant work of art on its own merits, and is a nearly perfect adaptation of the GN (keeping in mind that any sane individual should recognize that ANY adaptation of this sort requires alterations).
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i am addressing at the people who claim that they are fans of the GN,and that the movie is a great adaptation of it.
But these two things can not go together,its a contradiction.
And it its a contradiction,because,if u have read the GN,have truly understood its symbolisms,characters,meanings etc,then the only thing u have to say about this movie,is that it has failed miserably to adapt the content of the GN into the big screen.
to clarify,i am only talking about the movie as an adaptation of the GN,not how it stands as a movie by its own.thats another matter.
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The squid is, was, and will always be a MacGuffin -- both Gibbons AND Moore have said as much. The new ending makes more narrative sense and is true to the theme. Anyone who doesn't grasp this needs to remove the stick from thine ass and re-read the novel. Methinks you missed something.
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Is just ok, if thats supposed to be one of the best parts of the movie, I'll pass. Raising Arizona now thats a great movie opening, And Watchmen was never that great, AKIRA Cums, Pisses and shits blood all over it.
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You don't know what you're talking about
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"I TOLD YOU! I TOLD YOU! I TOLD YOU! I TOLD EVERYONE WEEKS AGO THAT THIS WOULD BE THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT MOVIE SINCE BATTLEFIELD EARTH! No one listened... This movie is utter crap! Fucking gay looking homo super heroes with a no name cast and some guy who looks like Robert Downey Jr. = EPIC MEGA FAIL SHIT!" NOT agreeing w/ him, mind you-but funny, funny, funny. C'mon you know it's true.
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get over with it.
here see,thats what i mean about the fans of the comic,who think the adaptation is good.they have read the GN,and they cant yet fucking understand how the squid works in the comic.
fuckin amateurs. -
I nominate Zack Snyder to direct the live action version.
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Duh, Ominus, sorry, but you're WRONG. You're an anal retentive and you COMPLETELY missed the point of the novel. Enjoy your misery.
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Haven't read the comics for a good few years and purpously didn't so I wouldn't be too judgemental. The ending worked fine. Re read the original ending afterwards to see why it wasn't done.. Maybe too jarring. This would have been fine for us fanboys but you'd have to have a whole thread added to the film about the creation of the squid (add another hour to the film) I think that was probably the only part that could seem confused and unadaptable..Or maybe Zak just didn't think he could pull it off ..Only let downs- it's hard to say. The action was awesome and although OTT more believable than TDK action sequences. However, Nite Owl and Silk Spectre II did seem a bit too super in the jail scene, but the scene was awesome. Rorscharch completely OWNS and his scenes are not only brutal they're pretty believable. I was surprised at how well it actually worked as a film on it's own without the baggage of having the Watchmen legend to live up to.
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It also had the greatest impact when it came out and lasting impact. But that is not the demean the outstanding work that Moore and Gibbons did. When I first read Watchmen the art turned me off, because lets face it, Gibons s not a truly great artist, he is good, and a great draftsmen, but does nayone 'collect' Gibbons? No. But his style worked very well with Moore, and Mooore did a masterful job with the conception and execution. It is a great work. The movie tries, tries very hard, but it falls flat because it is trrying to do a literal adaptation, instead of a making a theatrical interpretation of the work. Haley is outstanding, and deserves the kudos he will get. Morgan is great as well. But most of the other performances are either flat or non-existent. The makeup is putrid - as has been mentioned before.
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live action adaptation,of the AKIRA COMIC,or the AKIRA MOVIE?
because although the animation was great,it pales compared to the manga. -
...who wants to see LaserPants and Laserhead fight?
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your existence makes me sad for you.
:( -
give a link which shows that Moore said it,or it didnt happen.
because i remember u in all the previous talkbacks,and u always mentioned gibbons opinion about the squid as a mcguffin and never moores.what changed now and u report moore too in your argument? -
Who thought this was gonna bomb again?
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If that ever happens I'm going to find Snyder and cut his eyes out, and drip my juice into his brain then find you, cut out your's and give you his eye's maybe then you will appreciate T2 ;)
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Love this movie.
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You're wrong about The Dark Knight Returns being superior to Watchmen. Unless of course you accept that we're both just stating opinions on a matter about which there can be no subjective truth.That said I'm still right and you're still wrong. Pretend I put a smiley face here.
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as someone else mentioned,wait for the boxoffices second week to see how well the movie goes.
its logical to have a big opening (although it didnt break any record) but still nothing is finished yet. -
Alan's a great writer, but this whole schtick of refusing to see movies based on his properties is hilarious. There are much better writers who have had their work brought to the screen, and I don't see them whining about their artistic integrity being compromised. I'm not saying there have not been some horrible translations of his work, but, come on, just the sheer curiosity. You know he's sitting incognito in a darkened theater somewhere with all of that hair pulled up in a bun trying to stay anonymous. And he can't take his eyes off of Doc Manhattan's package.
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All your proving with your disdain and condescension is that your investing WAY too much energy into defending your feeble intellect. For the record, I'm tired of people calling the entity a squid. It looked far more link a one eyed octopus to me.
Hate on the film and claim it fails to adapt the graphic novel all you want. You are convincing no one and you have turned yourself into a laughable utter fail mark that shall be remembered fondly as person who wishes to complain about your precious piece of calamari. -
that the incomings of this movie,are going to get splited for warner and fox,for 2 studios.
which means it has to make enormous sums of money,in order to characterized as success. -
You are correct that it is subjective about which is the superior effort, and because those two graphic novels will forever be mentioned in the same breath it may be pointless to try and 'settle' the debate. However, that being said, I still think The Dark Knight is superior! Nyah Nyah!
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I think the proposed AKIRA live-action is a 2 part movie set in a "Tokyoised" New Manhattan mixing both the manga and anime, directed by Rauri Robinson and you right the manga is better, but I do think Otomo done an amazing job adapting his work making it one of my favourite movies.
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wasnt that very influential for the comic medium too?
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OK, seriously, people complained about this movie being too hard to follow and complicated. Maybe they just thought they could sit and just stare at the screen like Friday the 13th, and not have to THINK. Just knowing this makes me wonder what we're gonna be like in 30 years.
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the squid is in fact an inspiration from the HP Lovecrafts cthulhu mythology.we use the term squid as an easy word to describe it.
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March 28 release in Japan , cocksuckers.
Oh but thanks for making this movie. -
...because everybody else does and I want you guys to think I'm cool!
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Ignoring some of the acting (and it certainly appeared that Malin Ackerman was ignoring acting...thanks, I'll be here all week) I keep thinking of moments in the movie that just don't have emotional resonance INSIDE the movie because characters, background and details were not included in this cut. Why show the deaths of the folks at the news stand when we didn't meet them throughout the course of the movie? The journal being opened at the New Frontier has zero context -- the clunky "we need something to publish in our newspaper" dialogue is ample evidence that the film-makers knew they had to explain the point of the scene. The devil is in the details and the cut I saw last night was poorer for the lack of detail.The destruction of New York was abysmal. The power of that in the book was seeing all the characters converge and die together. The opening of the next chapter with full page splash panels depicting the death and horror, showing us the dead characters in which we had invested time, the gradual reveal of the squid (which I never thought of as a squid until everyone started screaming for it in talkbacks...) all of those things made the reader feel the impact. Veidt's words from the previous chapter, his chilling dissection of his plan w, were suddenly real and terrible. A big blue flash, then a crater? Please. I actually don't entirely hate the changed focus for humanity but I think it was sloppily executed. However, I did like Dan's words to Adrian that he had perverted humanity -- I never thought about the fact that Adrian had brought fear to the entire world and that was how people would live from that moment on.I thought the violence was unpleasant and unnecessary. While the comic made comments about the fetishistic aspects of playing dress-up and the link between sex and violence, I thought Snyder punctuated the point with three exclamation marks. "Damn right I get turned on by blood and violence, look what I can do!!! His arms just got cut right off!!!" BLOOD EVERYWHERE!!!"For a movie I don't have a great deal of feeling towards at this time I find myself in the same position as many, revisiting parts of the film and having questions about intent. Maybe that is a sign of a good film and not simply a fun movie. Or maybe I just know the book too well -- I'm worried I may now have something in common with the folks who froth at changes to the Twilight books...Finally, two questions. One: Were Dan, Laurie and Sally in New York at the end of the film? Did that apartment just get missed by the giant explosion? Two: Did anyone else wonder about all the Veidt signage on the rebuilding of New York and think that maybe Adrian's plan wasn't quite as altruistic as presented? It looked to me like a gigantic cash-in or, at the very least, the biggest PR act ever perpetrated.
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Quote: "...i am addressing at the people who claim that they are fans of the GN,and that the movie is a great adaptation of it.
But these two things can not go together,its a contradiction..."It's pretty ignorant to assert as fact that the only valid opinion is one that matches your own, and that anyone who disagrees is either not a real fan of the graphic novel or just hasn't truly grasped the story the way that you have.Well, ominus, I am a fan of the graphic novel, I feel I have a good understanding of the material and I also think that the movie got it mostly right until the end. A perfect adaptation? Hardly. But a great adaptation, I would say yes.That's the great thing about opinions, they're like assholes; everyone has one, and I'm sure glad we don't have to share assholes, ominus.Also, for someone who comes across as a smug, holier that thou "true" appreciator of the arts, your prose is curiously littered with punctuational and grammatical errors. Doesn't speak much to your authority on the subject... -
Interesting points about the ending.Can't comment on the first one, as I can't recall the exact emphasis of the first "do it". I'll be seeing it again Wednesday, though, so will bear what you said in mind.As to your second point, I found that to be really poetic. Dan has just seen his BEST FRIEND die, for god's sake! Wouldn't you take it out on the person ultimately responsible? The reason why Veidt stands there and takes it is the same reason why Dan doesn't just kill Veidt (which was in the script for a while and would have been a travesty) - they both know that, as much as Dan hates Veidt at that moment, the right thing has been done. It is an emotional release and I thought both actors played it to perfection.As to your final point about uncertainty, while we lose some of the explicit uncertainty with the loss of the Veidt/Jon scene (I would have liked to have seen that retained too), there has always been the implicit uncertainty of both Rorsharch's journal and the very nature of humanity being against what Veidt created (symbolised by people like the Comedian and the New Frontiersman), so to me this was still there. I talked about this point in more detail in my Review Part II above if you want to check it out.
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Mar 08, 2009 11:20:35 AM CDT
Moore is jealous... this is why he hates the idea od a movie of
by songofthesausage
The only reason Watchmen is "unflilmable" is because the story is so long. But the actual elements of the story work better in a movie than they do in the comics.. because comics don't tell the kind of stoy Moore told very well. Comics don't excel at nuanced performances. They excel at big bold visual stories. The reason Watchmen was so unique is because Moore took elements and themes from movies and literature and put them in comic. But this is alasy why Moore knows the movie will kick his butt. Also.. they didn't have DVDs and powerful PCs in 1985. Watchmen will rule as a DVD if they do it right. It will be much more accessible and immersive than the GN.
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True, both Gibbons and Moore have stated that the squid was a McGuffin. But, ominus has a right to his or her opinion. I don't agree that it's a horrible adaptation -- I find it curious to look at why ominus thinks it fails. It's extremely challenging to translate philosophical literary ideas into a movie and make it work. Too much exposition kills the narrative flow of a movie. Characters that spew philosophical dialogue are inherently uncinematic. "The Thin Red Line" approach wouldn't work for 'Watchmen'. And, even 'Akira' isn't a true representation of the source content.
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-- the line is "Forgive me girl."
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Who thinks that Watchmen will win any Oscars? I'm thinking noms in Visual Effects, some of the other technical stuff, and possibly adapted screenplay...but that last one is a long shot. Although, The Reader did get a best picture nom over The Dark Knight...freaking Academy.
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Watchmen(2009)- 8.5/10
"Watchmen" is one of the best looking films in recent years. It had some narrative problems, but Zack seemed to be more focused on the visuals, imagery, and the characterization of the characters, then on the actual plot. I also realize why shaky-cam and quick cutting annoys me most of the time, because you can't see anything. With Zack Snyder, I didn't get any of that bullsh!t. Zack went back to doing classical film making, and you can actually SEE all of the action that takes place during the action sequences. The film also has a very meditative, and slow pace that you don't expect from most superhero films. If there wasn't alot of violence, and sex, this could of been called the superhero version of "2001: A Space Odyssey." But it's look, tone, and graphic nature might draw more similarities to something like "Blade Runner." I've also come to realize that plot doesn't really appeal to me anymore. I prefer an established tone, atmosphere, and characters then on alot of plot. And Snyder does a fantastic job at focusing on the visuals, imagery, atmosphere, and the characters then on a plot that really doesn't have alot to do with them in the first place.
And it worked. He completely explored the emotional, psychological, and sexual aspects of some of the main superheroes. And by the end of the film, you realize that they are more *beep* up then most villains. The Joker would probably enjoy the company of Rorschach, The Comedian, Dr. Manhattan, and maybe Ozymandias. It's a sad film, it can be a nihilistic, and depressing film.
But it is a very powerful, and thought provoking experience. The performances were consistently brilliant. Patrick Wilson embodies Dan Dreiberg. He is absolutely perfect in every scene, and you just feel the need to root for him. Jackie Earl Haley is a complete psychopath in this film.
He channels the insanity, and evilness of Rorschach, and you still end up feeling sorry for him towards the end. Malin Akerman seems to be getting alot of flack for her performance, but I thought she was great. She became Laurie, and she shows the sadness, anger, and pain of this character. I'd also say that chemistry between Malin and Patrick Wilson was amazingly hot. You can see a spark in their eyes, and it just clicks with the audience.
The sex scene between is funny, fun, hot, erotic, and just entertaining. Remember what Roger Ebert said about the sex scene in "Mulholland Drive??" Well that's basically how I feel about the sex scene in the "Watchmen." It was deliberately created for people who love sex. But it also had a disturbing vibe to it, since Laurie and Dan are basically turned on sexually, but hurting people and saving people. It's the thrill of doing something that they shouldn't be doing. It might be the costumes that turns them on, but it could also be the excitement of going against the law.
In the end, this is more like a vigilante film, not a superhero film. Dan and Laurie's sex life is improved by being vigilantes. With Rorschach, he hates humanity, and he loves hurting and killing people. He's more like a serial killer, then a vigilante. And Dr. Manhattan doesn't care about humanity at all. He can't even hate humanity, because he doesn't give a sh!t. He's the type of God that people are afraid to talk about. The God that simply doesn't give a sh!t. And Jeffrey Dean Morgan is perfection as the Comedian. His charisma, and emotional depth will bring him alot more work in Hollywood. I guarantee it. The Comedian is probably a more subtle version of the Joker, except he's a SUPERHERO!
Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan are my favorites, but Laurie is the only one that I connected with on an emotional level from the graphic novel. And the same thing still happened in the film. Malick's acting brought Laurie alot of justice, and poignancy. Infact, all of the performances had a sense of poignancy to them. Mathew Goode might be the only real miscast in this nihilistic epic, but he still did an incredible job as Ozymandias. He embodied the depression, and angst of this character, and showed all kinds of different emotions for this character. His performance makes Ozy seem almost as complex as he was in the GN.
And Snyder's direction was fantastic. He is truly growing as a filmmaker, and he might become the Ridley Scott of my generation. Personally, I consider him to be a gift to action films, and comic-book adaptations alike. Dr.Manhattan's back story was cinematic poetry, and each scene in this film could of been painting. You can actually take each frame, and hang it on the walls in your house. That's how beautiful it is.
And I know Warner Brothers will never want to hear this comparison, but "Watchmen" might be the "Blade Runner" of the 21st century. I felt that Rorschach's back-story could of been a bit more poetic, but Snyder still managed to convey that disturbing and *beep* up tone from the GN. And I also think Ozy's back-story should of been explored alot more, but I like the cloud of mystery that is given to him in this film. I love the music as well, even though I think the Comedians funeral could of been left with no music at all. But the music in every other scene, was extremely well done. So my only real complaint, is that the film is way too *beep* short.
Maybe that's a compliment to Zack Snyder as a storyteller, but at 160 minutes, it went by like a breeze. I could tell that there was a good chunk of story, and characters that were taken out. It even felt shorter then "300." Which is probably why this film had some narrative problems. So I hope that the director's cut, and the extended cut will do Alan Moore's masterpiece alot more justice. It's already close to being a great achievement. And while the ending might be a bit dumbed down for a mass audience, it really doesn't feel that way at all. It still creates that moral ambiguity that is apparent in the GN, and your left wondering what's going to happen at the end, after it ends. I loved that feeling. It's a cynical ending, but I loved it.
So right now, my rating is an 8.5/10. I wish most superhero films were this good. And after seeing both this and "The Dark Knight", I'm not looking forward to "Wolverine" anymore. I was also a bit sad after seeing "Watchmen", because I kept wondering why the "X-Men" films were never this good.
P.S: I'm really surprised that something this weird, thought provoking, and polarizing could get mainstream marketing, from a studio as mainstream as Warner Brothers. WB has alot of balls to do something like this. Their making Fox studios look like a bunch of pussies.
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...reminded of JK Simmons in Spiderman whenever The Comedian spoke? Maybe it was the cigar. Not a bad thing - JK Simmons rules!
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Interesting. With a $25m Friday and $4.6m from midnight shows that leaves around $25m from Saturday and Sunday. That's a steep drop-off and I can't imagine this film's going to have a long life.
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"Dave Gibbons notes that, "[a]s it progressed, Watchmen became much more about the telling than the tale itself. The main thrust of the story essentially hinges on what is called a macguffin, a gimmick ... So really the plot itself is of no great consequence ... it just really isn't the most interesting thing about Watchmen. As we actually came to tell the tale, that's where the real creativity came in."
Wiki Wacthmen, and it's right there, along with the cited sources.
Squid is irrelevant. Only the result of the process is. You FAIL. -
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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that Jon never read Stephen Jay Gould on "contingency" but then it occurred to me that if Jon had simply stayed on Mars, the only difference in the outcome would have been that Bubastis would still be alive afterwards.
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Why did Ozymandias allow himself to be pummeled so easily by Night Owl? If he didn't want to hurt him, he could've put him in a martial arts lock or just dodged away from him. What's up with that?
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if you're using the term correctly, it doesn't really drive the motivations by itself, but that is rather splitting hairs. The idea that Veidt is the expert on Jon's powers and that this is why he becomes dominant in a "worldwide defense against Dr. Manhattan", (which is only implied by the film, but requires little reading between the lines) actually makes a bit more sense than the extradimensional invasion version. (although you do lose the nifty 1950's sci-fi film evocation).
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I rather liked that. It demonstrated that Dan's actions were utterly pointless. Veidt didn't need to fight back, nothing Dan could do was going to hurt him in any significant way compared to what he had done to himself in saving the world.
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I think that it's a Macguffin because the point of who killed the Comedian isn't the main point of the story. That drives Rorcharch's investigation. The 'Squid' is the bait and switch idea for Adrien's plan. It drives HIS character and motivations. So, essentially it's a Macguffin.
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WATCHMEN was good, very good. It wasn't quite great. Much of it felt spoonfed. Not all of the dialogue from the comic is necessary when you have actors emoting in real-time, and calling the superhero groups "the Watchmen" is simply insulting to audiences intelligence. It's like the studio is saying "YOU'RE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TERM 'WATCHMEN' REFERS TO." I do have a little more hope for the director's cut, as the emotions and backstories could be better explored--Sally's feelings for the Comedian, Adrian's long-term planning, Dan's retiree impotence, Jon's lost humanity. There's something true at the core here, but maybe Snyder got this film a little too early in his career to do with it what an older, wiser filmmaker might have achieved. The opening sequences, Rorschach, the Comedian, and Dr. Manhattan were glorious. The rest of the film, while watchable, falls short of these peaks and that was probably inevitable in an adaptation that went (a truncated) shot-for-shot for 75% of the comic and then just veered off into halfassedness for the other 25%. Many want to validate the wait and call the film a masterpiece, many others accept nothing less than a masterpiece and therefore proclaim "it sucked balls." Actually, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but at least WATCHMEN is a little closer to "masterpiece" than "ballsucker." Just as a side note, however, three musical choices sucked me out of the experience..."Hallelujah" was an inappropriate, clumsy choice. "Ride of the Valkyries" swung the film a little too far into parody...it was a nice satire of "Apocalypse Now," but I would have preferred Snyder make some sort of his own stamp, his own signature on this sequence rather than relying on our primal memories of Coppola's legendary scene. Finally, the My Chemical Romance cover from the end credits was abysmal. I didn't even want to sit in my seat long enough to see the cast credits. Horrible, horrible fucking choice. They should have just played another Dylan song or even better, Elvis Costello's "What's So Funny About Peace, Love, and Understanding." With all that said, I DO want to see it again on the big screen. Juuuussst to make sure I'm not wrong and see if there's anything I missed. And I'll buy the extended cut as well. I'm only human.
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...I can see your point about Dan taking out his aggression over Walter's death. Sort of reminiscent of the scene in the book where he finds out about Hollis' death, now that I think about it. Although, who truly is responsible? Sure, Veidt put everyone in the situation, but Jon is the one who physically killed him, and Walt was too inflexible in his position to be left alive.As for Veidt taking Dan's assault on him without answer, It just doesn't make sense. Why did he fight them all in the first place then? Lastly, over the uncertain ending. I know its still there with the last scene at the paper, but I still wanted to see the doubt on Veidt's face after Jon leaves him with an ominous premonition.Veidt based his master plan on the "greater good" theory of ethics; the greatest good for the greatest number of people. If his plan is a success, he's killed millions to save billions. However if "nothing ever ends," there's a chance that the blood of millions on Veidt's hands was all for naught and no greater good was achieved. I think Adrian is left off the hook by never seeing him realize that he may have committed mass-murder to no benefit. ...How refreshing it is to actually exchange ideas in a talkback instead of hurling insults!
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I'm a HUGE fan of Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series. I see a very strong comparison between the film adaptations "Master and Commander" and "Watchmen". I think both of them were very good, very reverent, film adaptations of "literary" works that captured much of the essence of their source materials and resulted in fine films. In "M&C" you lost all of Stephan's "intelligence agent" identity (that is 50% of the series) and characters were combined, incidents moved, but the essence was there. Similarly "Watchmen" "got it"-- you need only read Roger Ebert's pieces to see how it could deliver the story, evocations, and ideas to somebody who was unfamiliar with the source -- and "blow their minds" (I got to see how that worked with a smart, non-geek friend who had essentially the same reaction). This is what film adaptations should do.
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I don't feel Adrian is left off the hook in this version. If he takes Dan's words to heart, Adrian realizes that he's "saved" humanity from one fear (nuclear war) and doomed them to another fear (Dr. Manhattan.) He may have prolonged the human condition, but he's completely shell-shocked them and cut off humanity's figurative balls. And that's not even figuring in that Rorschach exemplifies humanity more than anyone who knows him wants to admit, and that the price of Adrian's "peace" will one way or another come around to sow its own chaos.
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I know this is like speaking heresy, but I thought that Rorschach's mask was way over the top. For a character that is about black and white, simple. Wearing a mask that can only be achieved with digital effects was a bit strange, I think the effect should have been done in real time. Some inks working under layers of materials. Where the hell does a guy who wears like him come across this strange tech?
Then that blue bomb at the end, and everyone is happy.. no smoke, no fires, no horror, a Disneyland explosion, the blue fairy just farted. It took a lot out of the real world sense they were working so hard to create, it took us New Yorkers a long time to dig ourselves out of ground zero. Going for real drama with fake caricatures for the President was a horrible mistake. I think a scene of Rorschach writing in his diary, maybe the mask half on, would have been effective to show the importance of this thing, that just plops up at the end. In the graphic novel we know of its importance again and again as we read the journal entry themselves. But as we all know film is a different animal, we cant just take comic panels and shoot them. -
Veidt knew Dan wasn't going to seriously injure him and didn't care about the injury he recieved.
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Which is one of my complaints about "spoonfeeding." In the book, Dr. Manhattan's warning is subtle and we can piece together why Adrian's plan isn't perfect just on the merits of the story. In the movie, Dan just comes out and says it. Luckily, the dialogue is effective, but subtlety gets thrown out of the window, sacrificed to the "Show me everything" mentality of Average Joe Moviegoer.
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I agree that the scene where Dan beats Adrian is a throwback to the excised scene of Dan choking the top-knot after Hollis' death, but my bigger problem was Dan just standing there and watching Rorschach be killed. He'd warned Jon before Rorschach left to leave him alone. And then he watches while he's exploded? I suppose it signifies the extent of Dan's impotence but it just didn't sit well with me. If it's true that there was a version of the script that had Dan kill Adrian to be the "hero" then the whole scene makes a little more sense, abysmal as that would have been.I'm wondering if the killing done by Dan and Laurie earlier in the film actually makes Dan's attacking of Veidt even more pathetic -- they had no qualms crippling, maiming and killing random gang members but he can't even bring himself to knock out a mass-murderer? Not that I endorse the fight with the gang members, which I found absolutely horrific and gore-porn at it's worst, but it does add a layer to Dan throwing punches at Adrian.
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I was very impressed with the movie and how it was done. Zack Snyder has truly proven his acumen in converting a graphic novel into a filmed event. First with 300, and now with WATCHMEN. He made only one major ... Read Morechange in this film from the book, and I think he did it to keep the viewer grounded in the alternate reality that he has created.
The event that he changed occurs at the end of the eleventh chapter, or at the end of the first two hours of the film. It worked for the comic, and it would have worked fine in the film if the only people seeing the film had read the graphic novel and knew what was going on. For "Joe Public", the new event packs as much punch without the otherworldly flare of the comics version.
I enjoyed the film immensely, and look forward to further viewings. It is a very dense story that needs close attention. -
but then fall like a rock in the coming weeks. We'll see whether it even recoups its price tag.
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Maybe the longer cut which apparently includes the death of Hollis would illuminate more? Hollis' death, Rorcharch's death, the death of millions -- Veidt's hubris and smugness is the only viable target. Veidt wouldn't fight back, especially after Dan's partner is executed as a result of his moral checkmate.
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That's a BRILLIANT analogy. Well considered.
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Now THATS a Fucking movie
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IT'S... ALRIGHT, I guess, considering its a film version of the holiest of Graphic Novels. Needs a second look maybe, hopefully a few months spent on a director's cut may help things, but overall pretty good, though not amazing. I know the graphic novel inside and out and the stuff I thought may not translate so well, didn't translate at all - i.e. the non-squid ending, it totally fell flat on its arse, it was just fucking dull, dull, dull, by this point I'd given up alltogether to be honest. The good though: Crudup's Manhatten was better than I feared (although his cock scared the bejesus out of me). Akerman's S&M gear gave me a hard on throughout, great eye candy but fuck all else going on there. Jackie boy was of course the best thing about the movie, he fucking WAS Rorschach, and blew everyone else off the screen. And of course the opening credits were spectacular. Everything else was just okay and nothing more. As I said I'd like to view it once again on Blu Ray as a director's cut to see if I'll change my mind. 7/10 for now.
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and loved it both times. this is easily one of my favorite movies ever.
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Random thought of the day...
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nearly anything was a travesty. the wrestler? the dark knight? wall-e? kiss my balls academy.
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Mar 08, 2009 12:44:56 PM CDT
jackie earl haleys journal-1st entry
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
just signed up for movie called watchmen. soungs good. shall own this movie with my performance.
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Mar 08, 2009 12:49:24 PM CDT
jackie earl haleys journal-2nd entry
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
plan going well. im owning everybody with my performance. actor playing veidt looks like gay porn star. heard alan moore doesnt like movie being made. hes a old grouchy piece of filth. hes knows he'll watch it. but pretend not to. hes afraid of me. ive seen his true face. he supported lxg.
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Mar 08, 2009 12:54:22 PM CDT
jackie earl haleys journal- 3rd entry
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
filming almost complete. guy playing veidt isnt as bad as once though. jon pretty good. but still owning movie. these actors arent sharing their scenes with me. im sharing my scenes with these actors.
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especially after having to pay off fox to get it released..i've already said, i like it enough, but after average word of mouth spreads, the numbers are going to start sliding. and WOLVERINE, the most probably lesser (but maybe equally troubled)movie will end up making more money than watchmen. i bet $1 on it.
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Mar 08, 2009 1:11:05 PM CDT
jackie earl haleys journal-4th entry
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
filiming over. trailer released. fans losing minds over it. looks good. they say my performance looks spot on. hearing about movie called dark knight. people calling it best comic book movie ever. funny story. sounds unbelievable. probably true
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What do you mean dude? Rorschach's mask is like that in the book, it changes every panel. Don't you remember, Doc Manhattan's tech even changes clothing, that this new fabrice where liquid could go in between is created and Rorschach makes it out of a girl's dress.
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Mar 08, 2009 1:15:33 PM CDT
Hmm, better than I expected, but that ending was rather laughabl
by stalin vs predator
The original comic book's concept of the "new, unknown, non-human, utterly alien menace" was flawless. Its execution was bad, however - not at all because of the silliness of the admittedly goofy "Octopus From The Fifth Dimension (TM)!", but because it was strongly based on the filthy, evil real-world frauds and scammers ("psychics", they call themselves in this real world - and, sadly, the comic book calls them so, too).
However, the new ending, while at least it's not based on the "psychic" scum, would not really work in the real world. And the reason is simple:
90% of world public, 5 seconds after the explosions: "THE SUPERAMERICAN HAS DESTROYED OUR CITIES! WAAAAR! KILL ALL AMERICANS!"
9% of the public: "But, you know, he's not really human..."
90% of world public: "HE'S AMERICAN! NIXON KEPT SHOWING HIM OFF, AMERICANS KEPT SHOWING HIM OFF, AMERICA KEPT SHOWING HIM OFF, HE'S ONE OF THEM!"
9% of the public: "But..."
90% of world public: "HE'S AMERICAN!!!"
9% of the public: "Well, but he did destroy New York, too"...
90% of world public: "WHO GIVES A DAMN, AND HE ONLY DID IT ANYWAY BECAUSE OF OUR TOURISTS AND BUSINESS INTERESTS THERE!"
1% of world public: "LOL, blue dong".
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The song placement was terrible and ruined MANY scenes. The movie would have hit much harder with NO music in the scenes where Snyder put in Simon and Garfunkle and Jimi Hendrix. Their placement was just awful and un-needed. Many scenes just fall flat, like when The Comedian and Night Owl take on a mob and when Dr. Manhattan and The Comedian talk in the bar. Matthew Goode as Ozymandias was droll. The Nixon scenes were stupid. There are many things I love about the movie, but also many I dislike. I would give it ** 1/2 stars.
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debate is the only reason I come on these boards. Like you, I'm always sad at how little of it there seems to be, but this talkback is progressing nicely.In terms of Veidt not defending himself, I think this one is self-explanatory: he knows he deserves it at some level. In both comic and film, he talks about "feelin every death", so he is aware that, while his actions had a positive outcome (in his mind), he still owes penitence for the way in which it was achieved. Allowing Dan to batter him is one of his penitences. He knows Dan won't kill him from the aforementioned moral checkmate, so he takes Dan's anger without question, because anger is all Dan can throw at him at that point. It is hardly the first time that someone in cinema (or even TV) has done or said something they know will cause violent retribution against them and accepted that violence without question. For me, that scene worked perfectly.As to why he defended himself earlier, that is obvious. He needed to be able to tell his plan, to put the moral checkmate in place, so he defended himself long enough to do so and after that the need had passed.As to letting Veidt off the hook, as I said I wish they had included the exchange with Jon (passing the "nothing ever ends" line to Laurie grated with me a little, but the important thing was that the line made it into the movie SOMEWHERE), but to me the doubt in Veidt's plan has always been inherent. In that sense, Veidt is NEVER let off the hook, because his plan is doomed to fail.In a way, I LIKE the fact that his arc in the movie ends with him TOTALLY triumphant. Let the doubt stay inherent, I say. Let people think about it. People always complain that movies make everything too obvious, but there I think it was a rare case of the movie being MORE subtle than the comic. As someone else said, you still have Dan's words at the end for anyone that doesn't get it, so to me it worked just fine.As to who is responsible for Rorsharch's death, it was ALWAYS going to be Adrian. Dan cannot blame Jon anymore than he could blame a gun or a knife. It was Adrian's plan that forced Rorsharch into not compromising. Anyway, hadn't Jon already vanished with his last kiss to Laurie by the time Dan came back in?As for Hollis's death, it's already been said that Snyder found that the hardest cut to make for the theatrical release, so we're guaranteed to see that in the extended cut.
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Mar 08, 2009 1:39:50 PM CDT
jackie earl haleys journal-5th entry
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
movie is great. but i own all scenes. people say i had best performance. *hurm* critics giving movie mixed reviews. but many years later they will praise it. not here to defend moral lapses.
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Another stupid change for no reason. Why didn't they give The Comedian his mask after he got that scar? Oh right, I forgot, this movie is incredibly faithful! The movie told the plot of the GN, but missed the point entirely.
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i liked goodes performance alot to be honest. the worst one to me was ackerman. too whiny. but hot. i had massive wood during the sex scenes.
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Never read the book and have avoided it since hearing of the film (but will catch it soon). I just loved this movie. Simply that. I kind of like that it divides people so much too. But I'm with Ebert.
Wish I had the time to read all this talkback. Any news on Moore's reaction (if he's seen it at all)? What's up with this guy? Sure, Hollywood may have screwed him over other adaptations, but I cannot see how this could be anything less than a noble failure to him. If he's got the balls to admit it. -
...wasn't there for the same reason that Rorschach didn't make the guy saw off his own arm: subsequent movies have used the imagry and people would've thought Watchmen was the rip-off and not vice versa. In the case of the mask, people wouldn't thought: "Hey, it's the gimp from 'Pulp Fiction'."
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$55 Mil opening weekend for a $150 Million production is not good. It's just proof that nobody outside of the extreme fanboys wanted to see this movie.
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Just saw the box office tally at Box Office Mojo and it has Watchmen at about $56,000,000 for the opemimg weekend. I'd have to say that it underperformed according to the perdicted estimates people were giving it and th onlt reason I can think of is that it didn't appeal to a larger audience outside of the Fanboy's. I saw it on IMAX the other day and I'm familiar with the source material and I can honestly say Snyder did an amazing job even with the altered ending but most of the people I saw it with had no idea what they were watching and a few fell asleep except for my brother who falls asleep during everything even The Dark Knight so it was pretty cool to see that he was so involved. I'm proud of my little bro.
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The acting was terrible PERIOD. Did not make me feel anything for anybody. There was no suspense. The best thing in the movie was the opening credits because it felt like a music video. In fact, the opening credits should actually have been left out since it made the rest of the movie seem flaccid. Now I know why we keep getting horrible movies with bad acting, no soul and no suspense/drama. It's because you the audience has become a bunch of idiots. Sadly, CG has won over story and character. It's going to be hard to go back. If you can't see this then you are part of the fucking problem of the world becoming a garbage dump for fashion and hype. This movie was soulless and Snyder should not be allowed to direct anything dealing with the complexity of being human. Basically, you guys suck.
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Doesn't prove a thing. Only that the content and the 18 cert will alienate/preclude a lot of people. But what do you expect from a movie with no...okay, little compromises. Who cares anyway? It's a great film.
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americans are idiots they want simple action films and spoon fed stories this is why america is dying good riddance
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Mar 08, 2009 2:28:14 PM CDT
PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS MOVIE IS BORING HAVE THE IQ OF THE MOST IN
by vitter
THE MOVIE ROCKS HARD BITCHESSS
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Thanks for the heads up, I had forgotten about how Doc. Manhattan's tech had done that.
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is only including Friday and Saturday. What Bizzaro universe do you live in where making back a third of a product's budget in two days is not a success? Especially when it's rated R. Of the ton ten biggest opening weekends for R-rated films, 9 made a third back in their opening weekend. Matrix Reloaded, having the biggest opening weekend for a R-rated film, had the benefit of being a sequel. Even without Sunday's numbers, Watchmen is already number six in the top ten biggest openings of an R-rated film. The producers of Watchmen are not shitting their pants.
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Maybe Zack's real problem is that Watchmen needed a director as pretentious, snobby and psuedointellectual as the writer of the source material?
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I walked into this movie with only the smallest idea of what the watchmen were about, and I was disappointed. Now maybe I should have read some of the source material before I watched the movie. But isn’t it the directors job to take me to this world without the need to read the source? The big blue wiener was a little shocking at first and the attempted rape was a little much. But I didn’t haul a little kid to it so it didn’t bother me. One of the complicated scientific instruments I bring to the theatre to help me determine whether a movie is good or not is my ass. If it starts hurting and I’m paying attention to it it’s not a great movie. My ass was talking to me about half way through this thing. I see a lot of complaints about the gratuitous violence in this movie. Hell, those were the only parts that got my blood pumping at all during this film. The Rorschach character was the only highlight in the movie. The only other guy that was enjoyable they killed off in the first 5 minutes. I’m sorry to say my first summer movie was a disappointment.
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What's so fucking hard about that! Oh, and the main titles sequence is the best in years.
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56 mil is considered a very good opening ( especially for an R rated movie) and will probably reach $100 mill in the next week or so. It's still a lousy film none the less.
Good for them, cause it's a lousy film. -
Greetings from Germany. Finally able to create an account.
I don't know the movie's box office numbers here in europe, I'm not really interested in those. However, I got my tickets on wednesday for the friday evening screening and almost went to see the wrong movie. Why? After I had bought my ticktes they moved the film to a bigger screen with many more seats. An indication that here it's performing better than expected?
I like the film and think it's a better adaptation of the graphic novel than could be expected, only I felt the length of it a bit, probably because I always knew excatly what was going to happen. I read the comic, for the first time, only two weeks ago and enjoyed it immensely. Thanks to you. You talkback folks made me buy my first funny book in about twenty years. -
and Nolan's third film will be different because of Watchmen. We'll actually get to see fight scenes.
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"If you can't see this then you are part of the fucking problem of the world becoming a garbage dump for fashion and hype." Right, because SO MANY Hollywood movies spend 30 minutes on having a big naked blue guy doing yoga and talking about the meaning of time. Yup, the people who like that are dumbing down the world by not being demanding enough. This frickin thing was one of the most bizarre pieces of film since frickin Zardoz, and you're acting like it's Millionaire Matchmaker or something. // You know what I'm starting to realize? That the people who complain that the movie is nothing but visuals are the ones who can't get beyond visuals. Let me explain: if I had my first choice, the cinematography of a Watchmen movie would look something like Serpico or Dog Day Afternoon. That would match the washed-out look of the comic and would provide a naturalism that, I think, it would be great to drop a big naked glowing blue guy into. But that's not the way Snyder makes movies. But I'm able to set aside the fact that Snyder has a different visual style than the "movie in my head" and watch it on its own terms. I don't look at Snyder's slick, hyper-set-designed style and pronounce the entire film superficial. I don't allow the fact that the film isn't SHOT LIKE Taxi Driver to trick me into thinking that it's somehow "less serious". And I think that the haters are doing that. They have allowed themselves to be tricked by the look of the film into thinking that the film is nothing BUT look. And that's their loss.
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Not even close.
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Mostly just from Rorschach's bloody silhouette --> Seymour. Nothing Ever Ends carries no weight in Silk Spectre's words. "What Jon would say..."??? And the S.Q.U.I.D. onscreen during the nuke scene was just horrible as well. If you're going to alter the ending in favor of one that works on a more broad level, fine. It actually did work for me. But don't give people who appreciate the "real" ending a wink with the word spelled as an acronym. Weak. Snyder got it right in all the right places. But I guess as a fan those tiny bits really pissed me off.
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Yes, the titles kicked ass. I loved all the little vignettes that those who hadn't read the book may or may not have picked up. I really did enjoy this movie. I'm glad I refreshed my brain by reading the book one more time before going to see the movie and together I felt like I got my fix. I can see why the ending changed for the movie going audience. When you are dealing with a lot of source material, you may have stream line what you can but get the point across. All in all, I really had a great time and no one is going to take that away from me.
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opening on a hard R film would only be awesome if it wasn't made with a PG13 budget. It cost 150 million just to make this thing let alone market it and they have marketed the shit out of it so you are looking at well north of 200 million just in getting it to screens. I wouldnt be surprised to find out all up this thing has cost 250 million. the thing will take a 40-50% drop next weekend and will probably struggle to make the production budget back in cinemas.
Sorry but the studio would have been hoping to have had a better opening than this.
Not a reflection on the film at all - its wonderful but that opening on a budget as big as this will not have the studio high fiving and blowing each other. although considering how fucking odd watchmen is 55 million is astounding. -
Yeah, I thought that maybe they had written Dan witnessing Rorshach's death and his subsequent anger as a way to give him a more 'heroic' character arc - not that what he did is actually heroic, it's pretty pathetic, but in the comic he just slinks off with Laurie and has sex. I would have like to have seen the 'nothing ever ends' line to actually come from Manhattan's mouth to Adrian, instead of Laurie saying 'what Jon would say' - that was a bit weak. All in all, I think it was an excellent adaptation, and I had no problem with the missing squid. But just a few moments could have been tweaked. I really missed Silk Spectre calling one of the fire rescuees an asshole because he didn't want to leave his drugs. I actually didn't mind Akerman, and she did a great job of projecting wide-eyed innocence, but interestingly one of the main atmosphere differences between the comic and the movie, is that in the movie nobody's smoking - there's something about Laurie being desperate for a smoke that points out her craving for comfort, and makes the 'pushing the wrong button' in Archie scene make sense - she's looking for a light! So I saw the loneliness in Akerman's portrayal, but not quite the desperation or the cynicism - but that's how she was written, not Akerman's fault. All the actors did fantastic jobs, though I was a bit sketchy on Carla Gugino, even though she's one of my favorite actresses - her line deliveries work well on the stage, where I've seen her excel, but they came off as a bit too theatrical in the film. And having a more benignly charismatic Ozy (like Tom Cruise or Jude Law) would have helped sell it more, but I didn't have a major problem with it. I just hope we see more of the doctor and the Bernies in the extended cut. But I loved the old songs, both from the 60s and the 80s - even when it was extremely awkward, like 'Hallelujah' over the gratuitous sex scene. It contextualized the story elements within popular culture - through the audience's associations. I also didn't mind the fake politicians and media personalities - it pointed out the 'alternate world' aspect of the story. I didn't want it to be 'realistic' - didn't want it to turn into Forest Gump with superheroes. Saw it in IMAX and had a fantastic experience. Can't wait for the extended cuts and the Black Freighter!
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This gas been beat to death I am sure. But I wish they would have left the ending alone.....sigh no shit...other than that it was amazing.....wow what a sex scene lol. And Kelly Leek as Rorschach was awesome....lol anyone even get that?
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Mar 08, 2009 3:35:13 PM CDT
The REAL question that has NEVER been answered though...
by squidgy_faced_vigilante
IS WHERE THE FUCK did Silk Spectre II get that gun? Seriously, I need an answer, have needed an answer on this for 20 years now. She didn't take it off the street gang, didn't take it off the cop in the prison, so where in the fuck did it ever come from? Where did she hide it all the time? Was it hidden in her skin-tight latex (and I say hot) costume? Was it wedged up her giant cave of a cooch? Giant cave because we all know that Doc M's huge schlong is ramming that shit and it's NOT going back to normal afterward - Dreiberg had his work cut out for him, good luck on that Daniel! Anyway, my reak question - WHERE DID THE GUN COME FROM? AND WHY DID MOORE HAVE TO PUT IT IN THERE ANYWAY??? Always my biggest problem with the book and now the movie...
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Whats the point of going over weekend numbers when its still Sunday afternoon? I know a few people who waited until today to go see it. Was there ever a time at this site where people didn't come just trash something? I doubt it
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It was a bright 4-colored heightened world. The visual style in the movie was very faithful, I thought. But yeah, this was a very strange movie and mainstream audiences may not go for it. But who cares? We have an excellent Watchmen adaptation that explores the important issues brought up in the book with some amazing portrayals - my god, could Haley have been any more perfect? I can't think of a more exact interpretation of a comic book character come to life - and some amazing visuals, and while it's not flawless, it did its job much better than any of us had the right to expect. And if you're not happy with that, you always have the book. I recommend the giant hardcover Absolute version.
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in the movie, manhattan's apparent rage at causing the cancers ties in nicely with the new ending, it makes sense in the movie. would i have prefered to see the squid? hell yes, would I have watched another hour of footage for it to make sense? no.
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Don't forget the 2 1/2 hour runtime on this flick either. 55 million+ is incredible.
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Chapter IX, Page 20. "Nah, I'm clean, guys... Just don't ask me where I was when I heard about JFK." - The Comedian
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He speaks the truth. All the 12 year olds and stunted adults love tripe like the Watchmen film cause they don't understand what made the source material great in the first place. The casting and acting were uniformly horrible. Only Haley redeems himself somewhat but even his "My face! Gimme back my face" was terribly acted. And malin Ackerman really looks like an old pro don't she? When did she retire? Last week? And Veidt looks like he just finished grad school. But all that is rendered moot by the script, which pretty much just goes through the motions of the GN but never engages it, at all. All the scenes are there for the most part, but they're all flat and lifeless because Snyder is clueless and misses the whole point. Their costumes are too clean and professional, they all fight like they have powers, Rorschach leaps onto ladders like he can fly, Silk Spectre II gets a fireball in her face and has no injuries. Nite Owl II jumps out of the Owl like he's Batman instead of some fanboy dope who decided to emulate his hero like he's supposed to be. The movie did not deconstruct the genre at all! You need details to do that, and Snyder had no details save the production design, which was also too clean and built looking. He did an admirable job adapting the Manhattan on Mars bit, but even there he shit the bed and ripped the heart and guts out of Manhattan's story. He was fixing Janey Slater's watch, he went back for HER watch, not his, it's a big point due to what happens later with the cancer shit, she turns her back on him even though it is because of her that he is in this condition. Just a small example of how Snyder was clueless about the intimacy of the story, and the characters. The 12 year olds who never heard Hendrix, or Dylan, I can understand how you think it is so cool in the film, but it is derivative and awful if you've had any experience. The stunted adults who love this shit are just starry eyed hype swallowing sheep. Either that or they just don't know what makes a good film.
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Mar 08, 2009 3:48:43 PM CDT
The movie is not bizarre, or compelling, or challenging...
by rowdyroddystriper
All you sheep who keep repeating this bullshit need to wake the fuck up. The reason people are confused by the film is not cause they're stupid, it is cause Snyder ripped the guts out of the story to the point it was incomprehensible. He dropped all detail and nuance in favor of cheap looking sets and bad acting. In fact, the movie is VERY mainstream in how terrible it is, terribly written, acted, photographed. Just bad.
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Why don't you tell us how you really feel...
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As a Bowie fan I'll have to look out for this next time I see the film. I noticed it a little to late, only as an afterglow on my retina, so maybe I was hallucinating. There's this shot of Ozy at the Studio 54. At the left edge of the frame, is that supposed to be David Bowie in full Ziggy Stardust outfit? As the Watchmen quit in '77 this could well be an early seventies moment. Or it's just another generic Glam Rocker.
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It's my day off and my chances of watching this movie with a bunch of knuckleheads goes down greatly. I read the Graphic Novel last summer and found it a bit overrated, but I liked it. Hated the black freighter stuff, and I'm so happy they cut that shit out the movie. I just skipped over that stuff in the book. But I look forward to seeing it.
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can't be bothered to type "because" instead of "cause" have any credibility whatsoever?
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To anyone who preferred the movie ending to the original (and superior) ending:
What dont you get about it!?! OOOOH!!!! GOOOOOOD FOR YOU!!! And how was it? I hope it was fucking good because it's useless now isn't it? FUCK sake man you're amateur.
THEY DON'T GET IT! THEY! DO! NOT! GET! IT! -
"All the scenes are there for the most part, but they're all flat and lifeless because Snyder is clueless and misses the whole point. Their costumes are too clean and professional, they all fight like they have powers, Rorschach leaps onto ladders like he can fly, Silk Spectre II gets a fireball in her face and has no injuries. Nite Owl II jumps out of the Owl like he's Batman instead of some fanboy dope who decided to emulate his hero like he's supposed to be. The movie did not deconstruct the genre at all!" Um, the "deconstruction" of comic books is not a result of the characters having no powers. The characters could have had all the powers of the Justice League and it would make no difference. What was "deconstructed" in the GN was the motives of the costumed heroes and their likely impact their "real" existence would have on the world and on the culture. As an example, it really doesn't matter that Hooded Justice had no powers. It's much, much more important that his costume contains details that are evocative of the Ku Klux Klan, and that when the Comedian accuses him of sexual dysfunction his response makes it clear that the accusation is true. He could have had Aquaman's powers or been indestructible or something and it would have made no difference. There were things the GN did that no movie could do, true. It's very difficult to duplicate the effect of Moore's use of mixed media to tell the story, for example [making the story both an exploration of postmodernism in storytelling and an example of it] but Snyder even managed to do A LITTLE of that, since the opening titles are designed to look like a series of news photographs, that are arranged in the style of "living paintings", that then bleed into film scenes. And Snyder also embraces the GN's lack of a clear protagonist or antagonist, and it's nonlinear narrative, up to and including retaining The Watchmaker essentially in its entirety. Someone who "didn't get it" would not have done that. This is what I mean - people complaining that the costumes don't get dirty and that extremely minor details of the GN aren't included, and pretending that this constitutes substantial criticism.
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Warhol is in the shot before too... Again, the opening sequence is pretty cool... I loved the shot of the hippy chick putting the flower in the gun barrel before getting shot down too... One of the best visuals of the flick...
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"The 12 year olds who never heard Hendrix, or Dylan, I can understand how you think it is so cool in the film, but it is derivative and awful if you've had any experience." Don't you realize that it's supposed to be derivative? That even in 1986 when the GN was written, that the song quotes Moore was using were derivative and deliberately so? That another one of the GN's postmodernist "points" is that sometimes the "long tail" of the meaning of cultural artifacts is only clear when you superimpose the products of different times on top of one another and consider them as a single product, and that in order to do this you have to re-use well-known and immediately recognizable cultural artifacts in a mannered and knowing way? Like, maybe, using a song that everyone would recognize, but in an ironic or coy way?
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Nolan's movie was as close as it probably will get to what it would be like if heroes were real.
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but the film is undeniably bizarre for a 150 million dollar studio film. What was the last big budget film directed at the mainstream audience you saw that featured as much violence, profanity and nudity including lots of shots of a cock albeit a blue one but a cock nonetheless. this is an odd film to have come out the studio system like it or not. to try and claim the film isn't fucking strange for the type of film it is is just ridiculous.
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because it doesn't. But I think Kevin Smith said it best when he explained that so much of the revenue that puts these little investments known as "films" into the black is DVD sales. People who don't see this in the theaters will rent/buy it in addition to all of us nerds going out and getting the Blu ray. Regardless of the revenue split with FOX, WB is going to get their money back on this.
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No. A person who spends 50,000 words ranting about how intellectually superior he is to everyone else, but doesn't know the difference between the words "because" and "cause" has no credibility whatsoever.
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And I'm also surprised they allowed this movie to be as off, weird, and violent as they did...
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Mar 08, 2009 4:30:09 PM CDT
Still sayin' the GUN FROM NOWHERE was just plain wrong...
by squidgy_faced_vigilante
'Cause it was. A GUN? FROM OUT OF LAURIE'S COOCH??? Seriously, did it have to be in there? So we have to find out that Adrian can catch a bullet to make him cool, but seriously? A FUCKING GUN OUTTA NOWHERE???? Just sayin'
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Before putting so much effort into trying to sound smart you should try bring smart.
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Love it to death. The film was a revelation. Faithful in the extreme, yet introduced some nice 'original' stuff that, in my opinion, really enhanced an otherwise perfect story. Now, the ending... not told as beautifully as the book- the almost poetic reveal as the world unites was never going to be captured- but still, it worked. Flicking through the book today, amazed how much Snyder DIDN'T leave out. The change to Rorshach's 'turning' scene, where he loses his mind and axes the child killer's head, I think actually was an improvement on the book. As was the prison break. Of COURSE they'd saw off his arms! My one real quibble? Rorshach's voice. Too hard boiled noir detective. Sounds more... wretched in my head when I read the comic. But Jesus, that's a minor quibble. Interested to see how the Black Freighter story works within the film without the squid. Going to be seeing the film at least a couple more times in the theater, just so much happening on screen. Oh, and the soundtrack- brilliant. Great use in the film, too.
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I said "bring" instead of "being". Boy, is my face red.
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To everyone who hated this movie...you are all as intelligent as a cockroach. Like Dr. Manhattan himself, I am above all of you and your stupidity does not affect me in the least...you should all go fuck yourselves.
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If you've ever had a different opinion than "RowdyRoddyStripper" then you are sheep. Emotionally stunted sheep.
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In the GN, she picked it up from a dead cop's body in NY before they went to Antarctica and while Jon was identifying tachyon satellites-- she picks up the gun because she feels unsafe. In the theatrical cut (at least) they don't show where it comes from -- yeah its a big hole.
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Commedian's daughter-- get it-- same as with the "I want a gun" at the end.
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Not every word and line are brilliant
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Pretending you know anything about how Hollywood works and trying so desperately to convince anyone that will listen that this movie won't be an enormous success.
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just read an Wizard interview and they asked Zack Synder about Alan Moore and what he thinks. He said I was never able to talk to him and quote "Its kinda weird that Dad will never see it" but my experience with Dave Gibbons has been phenomonial. I can understand Alan Moore POV on most things. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was a heaping pile. Constantine was another well at least to the source material. Ive expected Alan Moore eceentrics has part of a spooky genius but I feel it comes to a point wheres its more of an act. Sure DC screwed him over on more then one occasion. Whatever hes been paid for Watchmen,Hellblazer and Swamp Thing is probably never enough but if I had big screen adaptation of something of my work and the people who made the film get the work and try to be less then the eccentric A-hole.
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the prison guard she disarms. it disappears when Dr. Manhattan transports her to Mars. It reappears in her hand when they transport to Antarctica. Dr. Manhattan knows she doesn't need it on Mars, knows she needs it later. And, it's a movie and a comic book. Reality need not apply.
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Best movie experience I have had in years. Does it leave things out of the book(s)? Yes. Does it work as a movie? HELL YEAH! Did it "affect" me as a work of art? Yes, on many different levels. Did the Snyder succed? Yes. With a work that perhaps should be recognized as a model example methodology of adaptation. I did not go into the film expecting to see EVERYTHING from the book(s), ad perhaps the haters did (which is why they hate it). Watchmen is a great movie that will never receive the artistic acclaim that it so richly deserves (though I pray that I am wrong about this).
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"That the people who complain that the movie is nothing but visuals are the ones who can't get beyond visuals."
That's insightful. I'm not even being sarcastic. -
For point 1, Rorsarch DID want to die. As Alan Moore put it, he has the king of all death wishes. Essentially he wanted to be put out of his misery. "As for Veidt taking Dan's assault on him without answer, It just doesn't make sense. Why did he fight them all in the first place then?" He fought them because they wanted to kick his ass and he was trying to win them over. By the stage that he takes Dan's punches, he knows hes won, and he knows Dan is hitting him out of frustrated impotence, so he lets him get it out of his system. Plus he probably feels a bit guilty. RowdyRoddyStriper it's not incomprehensible unless you are a complete idiot. Yes, its a truncated version of the comic book. What the fuck did you expect, a 12 hour movie? Go read the fucking book if you want the book. I've never heard more retarded bitching in my life. Its pretty much all a large budget Watchmen film could be. You wouldn't get anything better, and if you prefer that they didn't adapt it, I have to ask, Why? No one is forcing you to watch it. You can go join Moore in a cave and spend all day talking to telephone psychics. Its also amusing that one of the best looking movies in years is apparently terribly photographed and designed. You must be fucking blind. The gun, I forgot all about. I guess rich super villains would probably have guns and shit laying about. Seemed kind of pointless anyway, like someone pinched veidt. Lone Fox...I don't think the black freighter will work without the squid.
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The Snake God and Demon of Mathematics have crushed Watchmen's B.O. potential, thereby spiting the entity known as the Brothers Warner. Expect layoffs in their cable division soon, a pathway which is held by the loa, by satan, by kundalini itself. Hiss!
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there weren't a lot of people there (Sunday afternoon) but a fair few people left before it ended. I can honestly say I have never seen people walking out of a film before. Not sure how significant it is of the general reaction to this film.
I went with a friend who had never read the book and didn't know too much about Watchmen. I have read the book (although have read no other comics) and I left feeling quite flat. I liked Dr Manhattan - as a character and how he looked on the screen (and no I'm not referring to liking his penis) and I liked the music used for his origin. But ultimately I never got lost in the film. I do find that this happens when watching adaptations of books I've already read - you know whats happening and how it will all turn out so it loses some of the tension and excitment of not knowing. However, despite this I really had problems with it. The whole world it was set in was just so unreal. I never got any sense that the characters were real people. The sets always felt like sets not real locations. Would it really have been so hard to film parts of it in the real New York? Thers a noise and energy that can't be recreated in a backlot. This also contributed to the feeling that all this world shattering action was actually only happening for a few people. For all the talk of a big cast I actually felt it was too limited. Yes a lot of the minor characters who rounded off the world are missing, but you can cut them out and still have the main characters living in a real universe. I never got that, and I also never got any sense of tension. Was this because I knew what was coming? Maybe - but even in films I've seen before I can get caught up in the tension of a well executed climax. I had no problem replacing the squid, and actually thought the ending was the thing that saved it from being a total disaster - but the rest of the film never felt like it was building up to this moment. It felt too rushed and you never got a sense of the scope of Veidt's actions.
Another thing which added to the unreality was the violence and fighting. For Watchmen to work you really need to ground it in reality. Its something the Nolan Batman films have done really well, but which was sorely missing here. Nite Owl/Silk Spectre fought like ninja motherfuckers. Whilst you'd expect vigilantes to pick up skills such as this - you always felt like you were watching stylised film violence. It was never believable or real. And felt entirely gratuitous in the alley gang fight.
Overall - my immediate reaction was "not as good as the book". I do hope that the extended version will help with some of my problems, and I will definitely seek it out as there was some great stuff amongst all the bad here. Ultimately though I never found myself engrossed in the film and the universe it presented. I wish I could be as enthusiastic as others, but despite the things it does right it never hit me square between the eyes in the way the book did. It may be unfair on the film to judge it like that - but thats my honest reaction. -
stop making it sound like it tanked
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FUCKING GARBAGE. Like some cheesy ass ad for Watchmen made up by people hired by marketing at a power company. The faux sincerity on the bullshit faces of fake Castro and Kruschev, the stupidity of the open lesbian embrace in WWII (which utterly negates the detail in the book that it's something that had to be closeted), the Batman rescue, the hippie putting the flower in the rifle before it fires... It all plays emotionally to me like a fucking ad for a power company or cellphones, everything reduced to iconic imagery with no depth or subtlety. Glycon will spray his mighty venom all over this worthless entertainment!
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Even funnier, why does the guy firebomb the tv store and kill himself in the process during the riot about the Keene Act? THAT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE!!!
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any way you slice it, this movie made less than sex and the city and the fantastic four, and the same as Prince Caspian. I mean I hate the fucking fact that's how movies work these days, but the sheer math alone and the daily dropoff means that Watchmen is like John McCain on Nov 4th when Pennsylvania went down.
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Dick Tracey did it 40 years ago.
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Neither hated nor loved it. Looking forward to Star Trek now. The guy who played Rorsarch was good though.
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Some were marvel soldiers others were DC Superheroes and some were then inteluctual im smarter cause I read somewhat smart shit. Ive read Watchmen over a dozen times over the years and always come from it still feeling its an awesome masterpiece. Do I wish I could of seen the movie a source material virigin sure that would of been sweet. Watchmen the movie could of tried to seduce like a hot cougar mother and had its way with me but im also glad I noticed the difference even the smallest details. will I watch this multiple times yes I will. Will I own every DVD Version and blue Ray Yes I will and so will 95% of all of you even the one who say you hate it. The talkback always falls into herds. theres the people who love it. theres the people who hate it and will no explain why. Theres the ones who love and defend it with the interluctual 4 to 5 post rant about why it made them cream and then call the aforementionned hater everything but Harry. Heres my typoss to criticizee. The movie was sweet. The book to some people is the bible or the Karan or the Davinci Code or the Watchtower whatever crap defines you. I love the book and I love the movie. So take that hater ive never met or will ever meet . Im still the sexiest beanpole on the planet brotha ccause whatcha gonna do when big fingers armless king kong bundy lookalike rolls over on you.
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I'm one of those people who picked up the graphic novel after years of hearing the hype. I read it, liked it (didn't love it) and put it on my book shelf where it presently sits. The movie was superbly done. I think Snyder is a fantastic director. I just think the story doesn't hook you in like it should. What works with most comic book movies is you have a relationship with the character before you go into the theater. Whether it be from comics or Saturday morning cartoons, you have nostalgia. After reading Watchmen many years ago, I had no nostalgia for the characters in it. I felt like we met them all at the end of their journeys. They never earned any of the credit they would have earned at the beginning of their journeys. Even in book form, we miss a lot. The story hits the ground running and you are forced to catch up and buy into it or not enjoy it. In this case, it's not that I don't enjoy it, there's just no emotional connection with anything that is happening in the movie. The conclusion of the movie felt like I was finally being let out of a lecture I wished I stayed home from. That said, I think the acting is very good and this movie has incredible moments. It just misses so clearly on connecting with the audience. This is going to be one of those movies that will divide people. There will be people who think they are smarter and get it and there are people who will be honest in saying that as a story it just didn't work on film. I'm in the camp where I think it's borderline unfilmmable, but I think Snyder did a helluva job. It's not spectacular failure because it's not a failue. It's just not an overwhelming success. I still hope this community continues to see it. It's important to send the message that R rated comic book movies with adult themes can make money.
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And here is the truly, ironically most Watchmen like thing about this. For better or worse, Watchmen was a financial gamble that a truly adult genre piece could flourish today, that they were worth the epic backdrop, and adult sexuality and violence have their place in such stories.
Here's the fucked up squid condundrum behind it all: if you ever want to see a movie with the budget of Watchmen that's as adult in tone, then you need to get off your ass and go see it in theaters.
But this is why for two years we were wary of Snyder to begin with. Is Watchmen the movie ambitious, epic, filled with interesting detail and creative risk? Yes. Is it any good? Not really. With one fell swoop, genre just reverted to PG13 and less creative risk. -
The ending was a cheap copout, but the music... ugh. Not a single memorable moment in the score. Bad song choices, too, with the exception of Glass. The worst part - the 6 minute opening, set to the horrible, cat-being-murdered wails and screeches of a brain-dead, potheaded hippie who campaigned for the freedom of evil rapist and murderer Carter. Ugh.
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Mar 08, 2009 5:28:49 PM CDT
I disagree with everything Dr Turing said, except...
by whinynegativebitch
...For the firebombing. Because it was in slow mo, I was like "Hey, hey man, holy shit dude, you might want to step back a little bit, I think you put too much petrol in that. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU CHEERING HE JUST SET YOU IDIOTS ON FIRE!" I guess we have to assume he can't measure his liquids correctly. Or perhaps Snyder really likes closing his titls on a giant wall of flame.
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...It hasn't been counted yet, you fucking morons.
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1) WM is a drama, essentially, and Snyder cannot direct a compelling drama. The bad acting is not the actors' fault, it's Snyder. 2) He stayed TOO faithful to the graphic novel, and to work as a movie it needed to become a different animal. Adaptation is not replication, it is changing the story as necessary for a different format. Old but perfect example: Bo Goldman removing the Indian's narration from CUCKOO'S NEST. 3) The exposition which means so much to fans of the GN is meaningless and convoluted to a mainstream audience 4) The deconstruction of Superheroes is no longer fresh or original in any way, it's been done and done again, so what made this story special is no longer, and 5) Not only is the story dated, but the cold war politics and nihilism about America (and humanity in general) is dated. Even in the midst of the mess we're in now, we're not as cynical about ourselves as we were in '85. Or at least the edgy counterculture was. We can't afford to be that kind of cynical any more. ...Those are my thoughts on why the movie doesn't work and why I think it will nosedive next week.
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your post amazes and astounds
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You're funny.
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See, Ozymandias is kinda gay, so he must HANG OUT WITH THE VILLAGE PEOPLE. CAUSE OUR VILLAIN IS GAYISH. Fuck off Zack Snyder with your adoloscent vargas style lesbians; for a man who makes so many villains gay you sure love the cock.
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I think Zack did reasonably well with the material but this definitely seems like a movie geared toward people who have read the book. The acting was a little wooden and there needed to be a little more spark and humor but it was a decent take on some very difficult material.
Having seen it now, I don't think the squid would have worked at all. You would need the whole back story about the newsstand regulars and the Black Freighter for the Squid to have the proper impact. In the context of this film, it would have seemed ludicrous but not in the same way that it did in the book. The irony would have been lost.
My main question though is how this movie would play to anyone who is not a comic book geek? A very adult drama abotu the trials and tribulations of super heroes? People all around me who had brought their kids were wigging out at the nudity and violence.
I'm glad the made it, I enjoyed it, but I can't see this having mass appeal. Definitely a cult item. -
...Fine post, but you're wrong about the cynicism and nihilism. Unless you actually believe A CHANGE IS COMING!
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Watchmen isn't very good, but if we don't go see it, we won't get any more epic R Rated genre movies... CURSE YOU SNYDER!!!
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Loved that shit. Club 54 and Warhol. David Bowie was also there with the Village People.
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Is Ozy supposed to be gay? Just curious.
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After Veidt he would do well with Apollo and Midnighter
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Saying "im" smarter doesn't really make it seem like you're very smart at all, lol.
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Needed a musical number. With Mr Kovacs killing the cast of High School Musical
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...But must have missed the village people. Holer, it won't play to mainstream audiences, but its got nothing to do with it being about Superheroes. Any stigma that was attatched to Superhero movies died completely last year. It's because its a fucking cluster fuck of a cult film. It will play to people who appreciate offbeat cinema and weird cult movies. Not exactly promising if its your money paying for it.
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Are you kidding? This was the fourth largest opening for an R rated movie in history. Pretty fucking good, I'd say.
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It's a link to that splendid opening credits sequence. http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/watchmen/opening-title-sequence
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and you know your judgment is good when you are agreeing with the R man. Was there ever a more perceptive people-person?
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Bitch: That's exactly what I'm saying - not your typical crowd pleaser comic book movie but a capital-D drama about dysfunctional super heroes. Avergae Joe viewers aren't going to know what to make of it. It's like the NPR critic who complained that there were too many flashbacks and ths story didn't get moving until the last 45 minutes. The uninitiated are just not going to get this and I'm sure a lot of obsessive fanboys aren't going to be satisfied either. This is a tough nut to crack - a very cerebral (i.e. a bit dry) movie adaption of a very cerebral comic book.
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McG is our last best hope of the year.
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They're embarrassing really. Like the film or not, Snyder tried to make something with a lot more substance than the average "superhero" movie. The viewer reviews on Yahoo repeatedly refer to it as "superhero porn." Every single review references "blue penis." Sad, really, that that's all people can get out of the film. At the screening I attended yesterday--my second--audience members were giggling at John's penis everytime it was on screen. Pitiful.
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I read all dem Fancy Graphicy Novels
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there are more twilight fans in the world than watchmen fans
on the other hand, the wonderful thought is that there are more watchmen fans, fans smart enough to know not to let the visionary behind 300 to paper in the cracks of their resplendent imaginations -
What the hell is MCG name anyways. Id hide my name too if I did the Charlie Angel's movies but damn whats the douche's name
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Come on it will be sweet. But seriously a Pixar Maus done well could be Best Picture
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And also in that scene was Mick Jagger, who has had more Vaginas than the entire talkback population combined. It was Club 54 people. Veidt was glam, so of course he was there.
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Fuckin' hilarious. "Oh my god, the film explored such adult themes! And such adult attitudes towards sexuality! You only see that in Watchmen these days."
You fuckin' guys are too much. Watchmen treated all the deep subjects of the book in a juvenile way. Get the fuck over yourselves already. You're all so lost, it's sad. -
Goode added, "So I was just really happy with [it] because there's so much stuff you've got to get into not very many scenes. Is he gay? Isn't he? It's not a huge part of it. How arrogant is he? There's a lot of duality to this sort of stuff."
Asked how he came up with the idea that Veidt might be gay, Goode replied, "It's suggested by Rorschach. 'Possibly homosexual. Must investigate further.' But then you can say that abuse leads to abuse so some people could say if they're psychologists that there's a possibility that Rorschach might be a homosexual. You never know, and that maybe he fancies Veidt. I don't think that was the case and I think it's only suggested in our film. I actually started laughing hilariously…on the computer when they break into it with the password. He puts in the things and it says his operations. Then on the other side it says 'boys'."
Not everyone is going to notice something that subtle. "There's an Easter egg for you," laughed Goode. "I found that hilarious and that was because it is the '80s and so there's an element of he looks a bit like David Bowie. So it's not necessarily in that sort of new romantic look. So that very subtle thing suggests it all right there."
Matthew Goode is a fucking tool first and a shit actor second. Also, his rationale that Rorschach must be gay because he was abused as a child reeks of all sorts of projection and oddness. It's like he's pissed Earle Haley owns the film so he has to say "well he's gay" -
to studio executives it is seen as adult, although i agree with you it isn't adult, its adolescent fetishizing of what's supposed to be adult. the fact that the movie is gorier than the book by far, that the sex scene is totally laughable in its cheesiness, means that yes we've been cursed. I mean even Manhattan's dick is bigger in the movie. WHY???!! WTF would you argue with a studio over that?
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because he's a part of something that you love and isn't always bleeding.
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is why a bunch of studio execs would try to sell this as a summer blockbuster popcorn flick with a zillion dollar marketing push. Maybe they'd spent so much money by then, they had no choice. Again, not a reaction to the film itself, just interesting that such a decidedly non-mass appeal film film would get the big media push. The way it's being marketed. it's no wonder people are bringing their kids.
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You're too cute for words.
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Do you guys really think it was bad? I understand you not liking it because of whatever bias or detail that you didn't enjoy. But, do you really think it was just a bad movie? It wasn't, and couldn't have been, everything the books (because there are 12, not just the trade paperback that most of you read and then started calling it a fucking "graphic novel") are. Even if it wasn't what you wanted, it was still a pretty good film. Some of the complaints, like box office and the opening credits, are just you people (yeah, you people) looking for something to bitch about. Stop being a bunch of bitches, bitches.
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(WARNING: This post contains a few spoilers)
Laurie got the gun from the prison guard and still had it after they left the prison. They go back to Dan's place after the prison break scene and Doctor Manhattan immediately shows up and takes Laurie to Mars. When they arrive there Laurie falls down, gasping for breath, and you can see that she has the gun tucked into her rear waist band. It's very visible if you are looking for it. -
I agree with the following reviews: http://tinyurl.com/cpcgcl | http://tinyurl.com/bzhh8r
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I think my biggest problem was having read the original -- and Snyder sticking so closely to it. I found myself reacting the exact opposite to how I did TDK - in TDK I was bored during the action scenes and riveted during the 'talking' scenes, while in Watchmen I was riveted during the action scenes and getting bored during the talking scenes. I didn't mind the lack of squid (I was actually kind of impressed with the different ending), but I thought it needed more Kovacs (ok, I know you've all but eliminated the newstand, but you couldn't have Kovacs visit the newstand guy a couple times just so we could have the classic "I see the world didn't end yesterday/Are you sure?" exchange? Two minutes is all that was needed for two scenes there) and less Manhattan (the scene on Mars just brings the movie to a dead halt; I would've stuck Manhattan's creation in the middle of the opening credits -- take a break from the 'heroes through the years montage' to show all the relevant scenes of his 'birth' and interspersed any necessary Slater/Laurie scenes throughout the movie).
Anyway, just some thoughts. -
Is that the sound of Dr. Manhattan's junk bouncing in the gentle Martian breeze, or of Watchmen's inevitable performance at the box office?
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but missed one aspect shouldve left the scene where manhattan first finds himself alone in the studio, too passive transporting himself again, the main issue i have with the film is the fact that due to time constraints, all the minor characters are gone...they gave the reader the feeling of impending doom that, and the fact that the changed ending removes all the missing scientists, artists and writers, who, because they go missing, adds to the feeling of impending doom i can see the audience feeling a disconnect...the world is supposedly 5 minutes to midnite, yet no one but the masks and the president, seem all that concerned
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please watch my video review of Watchmen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHLux3x-y3k&feature=channel_page
and read my written review (totally different from the video review) on my blog here:
http://videogameanswerman.multiply.com/reviews/item/2/Watchmen?replies_read=1 -
please watch my video review of Watchmen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHLux3x-y3k&feature=channel_page
and read my written review (totally different from the video review) on my blog here:
http://videogameanswerman.multiply.com/reviews/item/2/Watchmen?replies_read=1 -
Sorry for the double posting there. I'm just wondering why Dr. Manhattan didn't just blow up Nite Owl and take Malin Ackerman for himself.
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so the movie may not hit blockbuster status...who the fuck cares oh, you do well, let me tell you this...titanic and tdk are both blockbusters and neither took chances the way that zack did with this movie so fuck the gen audience now they can get more of what they want...inane popcorn bullshit
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Many people said Watchmen should have been done as an HBO special.. which would ahve been great to make it a long, multi part drama.. but then you would lose on the great visuals you get in a big budget movie.
So I am wondering if Watchmen should have been a mixture of a HBO series AND a big blockbuster.. what if you sold it as one big DVD series right off the bat without a theater relaease... I wonder how much money they could have made that way... he used unknown actors.. so it's not like they would be complaining. How much money do the best big budget video games make? -
Can we have some sort of 'movie law' enstated that makes it a creative felony to underscore any more poignant dramatic scenes with Leonard Cohen's 'Hallelujah'? Yeah, great song, used about 500 times now for just such purposes. There are other equally effective choices out there. Even Leonard himself has a few others that are pretty darn good.
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I think Manhattan didn't just destroy Nite Owl due to his whole realization of the importance of human nature. He said himself that her very creation was a miracle, so I think he was just respecting the decisions the people were making. He didn't want to interfere or stop them from doing what he wanted. It's also partly why he left. A passive God that can only watch, but would never change anything.
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This movie Horrified a lot of people. LOL. Not sure if that was Snyder's intention.
From the looks of it..the general population was either so grossed out they left the movie, or so bored they left the movie.
Once again...loved it. Thought it was 80% perfect. Almost there. -
...are misguided. 150mil for production with another 60mil in advertising, this thing is barely going to see a profit even with DVD sales. Simply accept that getting a 0% return on your investment is...not good, much less great or strong.
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...are misguided. 150mil for production with another 60mil in advertising, this thing is barely going to see a profit even with DVD sales. Simply accept that getting a 0% return on your investment is...not good, much less great or strong.
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and while I know the genres are totally different, I have to say I think it is a better movie.
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the studio wanted to give zack 80...he wanted 120...they gave him 100 now i see reports of somewhere from 120-150...basically, people pulling numbers out of their asses the movie cost a little more than 100 to make the pub seems to be about 20 the fact is the money will come back on the back end sales and why do you care anyway? do you own stock in warners?
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...but I want to share this anyway: jut got home from seeing the movie and thought that Patrick Wislon was fantastic, aspects of John Osterman/Dr Manhattan/Billy Crudup were spot-on...the vibe was spot-on, Adrian Veidt was fine, Malin Ackerman was fine, Rorshach was pitch-perfect, Jeffery Dean Morgan was great, Carla Gugino was great, the changes to the story worked other than giving that awesome closing line from Dr Manhattan to Laurie...that kind of sucked and the music for the sex scene was useless (but only because Simon Cowell has ruined Hallelujah for a generation).I've waited years and years to see this and I thoroughly enjoyed it...some parts of it will stay with me forever.
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Fanboys may not want to see reality, but this film failed at the B.O. It couldn't even match "300". HOW SAD IS THAT! You take into account prod. costs, advertising, and even the legal fees with Fox. This film turned off every MAINSTREAM non-fanboy moviegoer! And IT HAD NO COMPETITION THIS WEEK EITHER!!! Next week "Race to Witch Mountain" is going to kill "Watchmen"! Watchmen will barely reach the magic number of $100 million.
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that is all i have to say about that
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That flopping noise is the sound of your bitch tits bouncing around
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Like it or not fanboys, this is show business. Big studios DON'T make movies out of the sake of art. They make movies to make money! They want to get their money back and make a profit. If you don't like that, well then tough. If you just want to complain about the mainstream audiences on how they just "don't understand" or like the movie "Watchmen", well....get over it. The studio behind Watchmen put a lot of money in the making and ads for this failure. The people have spoken and will continue to speak. That this movie was a disappointment to many.
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Considering how long this film's runtime was, and that its rated R, I think 50 million dollar opening weekend is not so bad, I thought it would tank, but am happy it didn't.
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These are always fun:
http://www.screenit.com/movies/2009/watchmen.html -
...it's all over the innernets. Even putting the production budget at $120 (which is halfway between the lo and hi estimates and is what wiki lists fwiw) you are still looking at an advertising budget that pushes it close to 200mil. Now, remove backend deals (while not even counting the Fox split because of the lawsuit) and the general rule that a film needs to make 250% of its production budget back to be profitable, well it doesn't take a closed minded AICN'er to realize it is falling far, far short of that mark.
Why do you defend this so? Do YOU own stock in Warner's? Here's another question: do you even know what it means to work and live in Hollywood or are you stuck in your stroke off chair in your parents basement? -
People will look at "Watchmen" and think what kind of trash was that! While as we speak "Speed Racer" is being discovered by more and more people and making fans of them. While those who watch "Watchmen" loses fans, those who watch "Speed Racer" gathers fans. Personally, I believe we all have different tastes, I personally like "Speed Racer" over "Watchmen". But, I totally understand and respect people for feeling passionate and enjoying "Watchmen".
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Overseas box office. DVD and Blu-Ray (both theatrical and extended versions, not to mention the gift sets that come with a Rorschach bust or something.) The Black Freighter DVD. The soundtrack sales. The TV rights. Cable rights. Video game rights. Increased sales of the graphic novel and its deluxe edition. Novelization. Watchmen is through and through a Time Warner cash cow, and as the years go on, this will MORE than make back its money because it has a built-in cult audience. Figure in ten years when Super HD or whatever comes out, or if the film is remastered in 3-D...the only "lost" money Time Warner will see on this is what they give to Fox up front and if they attach another budget to this...like the inflated Superman budget that was $50 to $80 million in the red before Singer's version was officially greenlighted. Superman Returns grossed about five bucks less than Batman Begins, but the Superman franchise is in limbo while the Batman sequel was given free rein (and look how that one turned out.) Anyway, with no potential "franchise" WB took a mild calculated risk and in the end they'll end up ahead of the game. By more money than I will make in 20 lifetimes.
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who chooses not to read posts listed above which say the exact same thing for the same pointless effect. oooh, its not a blockbuster feel better now?
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Despite being released in more theaters, Watchmen had only two thirds the screenings on opening weekend that 300 did due to its 3 hour running time.
And Fandango is still reporting 55% of its traffic as advance ticket sales for Watchmen for the week of March 9 - 15. -
Oddly enough I was far more into Speed Racer than I was Watchmen. And that was seeing it for the first time on Blu-Ray at home as opposed to last night's Watchmen 10:00pm showing. HOWEVER...keep in mind I had little to no expectations about Speed Racer. Watchmen, on the other 'and...I really, really tried to squash my inner critic and go in without prejudice, but it's freakin' Watchmen--flaws are tougher to overlook.
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Mar 08, 2009 7:18:23 PM CDT
I would like Dr. Manhattan and his big blue dong in my movies.
by pornking
Movie is a 6/10. Badly needed focus/editing. The Doc's big blue dong has a future in my industry. I was disappointed that when he expanded himself to 100 feet tall we never saw if his dong stayed proportional to his body.
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Did I read that article right--is the director's cut only going to be released on Blue Ray? Does anyone know?
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when chin chin rapes trixie...fuckin a...YOU ARE ALL RETARDED
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"300" Had mainstream moviegoers loving it. "Watchmen" sadly does not. By next weekend "Watchmen" will fall and fall hard. Those people that want to defend Watchmen's B.O. are still living in a dream in which they don't want to wake up. It's only a movie people. It's for entertainment purposes only. Choose to fight and defend something more worthwhile and important than just a movie about men wearing owl costumes and glowing naked blue men.
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On crappy, filmed in a cinema, streaming internet stuff.
Not great, unsatisfying. Like the eqivalent of someone describing the comic book to you in a pub.
Hrrmn. -
You can go back and forth all day as to whether or not Dr. Manhattan is "scarier" than what Dave Gibbons has called an "interdimensional cephalopod." The real problem is HOW did they know it was Dr. Manhattan that destroyed all the major cities? Because the guy playing Henry Kissinger fucking said so? The scene, as I recall it, was Kissinger picking up a phone, staring slightly away from the camera, and arbitrarily saying "we have detected that the source of the explosions is not the Soviets -- it is.... Doctah Mon-hottin!" Because there were blue flashes across the globe? Anyone near enough to see them would've been fucking dead. And before anybody gets on me about nitpicking, fuck off. The movie was adequate; not great, not terrible. I want my 3.5 hour director's cut. If anyone can answer my question here, I'd be much obliged.
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I'm not saying Speed Racer was a better movie. But I didn't give a shit about the old cartoon going into the viewing. Meanwhile, I've read Watchmen about 30 times and have a tattoo of the Comedian's badge (yeah, yeah...I was hammered drunk) so going into Watchmen my expectation level was at least an 8 (10 being "Phantom Menace", 1 being, I dunno, "Madea Goes to Jail.") Maybe in a way that did turn me into a retard viewer. But I was never hoping for anything but a good movie. I guess the beats of the graphic novel were too saturated in my brain to enjoy the movie proper, at least upon the first viewing, where a geek is always on a high sensitivity level for things like faithful dialogue, plot points...shit like that. I imagine it's why Harry always hyperventilates as a critic after "event" movies and his reviews don't translate to everyone. Harry sees Bubastis and goes "HOLY SHIT A COOL HYBRID LYNX" and carries that home with him to his review. A prick like me, meanwhile, sees it and goes "If they took the genetic research out of the plot, why the fuck does Veidt still have Battle Cat?" It's a curse, really...and I only have this curse in its mildest form. Some trolls have the Super-AIDS version of it.
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Zack Snyder is NOT a visionary. Alan Moore is the visionary. Zack Snyder just took really expensive tracing paper and made the comic panels move. That's it.
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It's only a movie. It's for entertainment purposes only. Choose to fight and attack something more worthwhile and important than just a movie about men wearing owl costumes and glowing naked blue men.
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I think there are a couple weaknesses that keep this from being a total freakin' awesome success...
1. The adaptation of the source material: this is a straight up, faithful adaption (for the most part). It just isn't that creative to recreate something so slavishly (thinking of the Psycho remake).
2. The acting is a little wooden (particularly Patrick Wilson), with the exception of Rorschach.
3. The cheesy sex scene in the sky with the flamethrower climax, that lame joke immediately degraded the entire production (I know it's in the comic, but it didn't feel like a joke when I read it).
Granted, it takes a lot of risks, but so do a lot of sub-par movies. Taking a risk is only worth while if it improves the production. I really think they either needed to have Manhattan's exposed dong covered the whole time. It stole the impact of a lot of his scenes (but then, so did his dead eyes and heavy eyeliner).
Rorschach's journal narration should have been cut, they chose some of the weaker portions of the journal, and it was just confusing.
I really liked just about every scene involving Rorschach though.
I liked the unflinching way they handled the Comedian, but with so much back story cut, those scenes probably seemed bizarre to a lot of people.
All in all I think Alan Moore's right, you can't tell the story he told in the comic, with a movie. You can come close, but you can't tell the same story.
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First of all, think it's fucking silly when a bunch of middle-class clowns start talking about how much a movie did or didn't make and if this means success or not. Why don't you morons try balancing your own checkbooks first. Next, Some of you people are calling the song choices distracting obvious and horrible. I however think that they illustrate a a problem with trying to make this story appealing to a mass audience in 2008. While the overall themes in the movie are universal, the character and situations are very time specific, and probably mean more to some one who was around during those times ( the 80's and the death throes of the cold war including impending nuclear desctruction.)Do these artifacts translate to and audience born after the fall of the Soviet Union? Hard to say, but it is a valid question.
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I get what you're saying, but isn't it a little like saying people can no longer relate to Hamlet or Pride and Prejudice?
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and harry did go overboard with the whole geek thing in seeing certain scenes brought to life i personally thought the whole prison part was cut wrong, and i thought the only music that should not be there is sounds of silence, and the flame out of archie after sex only works if laurie is a smoker, as she first thinks the button is a cigarette lighter...thats what makes it funny after sex
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Of course it wasn't as good as the book. How could it possibly be? But I think it was about as good a film adaptation as one could make. The ending didn't piss me off, I just kind of rolled my eyes. I thought Rorschach was perfect, and all other characters were, at the very least, adequate.
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Mar 08, 2009 7:51:10 PM CDT
Anyone a little disturbed/concerned about the result of Veidt's
by chrth
So basically, Veidt has turned Doc Manhattan into an old testament "god" (who is no longer American) who will punish Earthicans if they don't behave (at least, that's how I took the "Doc Manhattan is watching us" line). But what happens when someone does misbehave and there is no retribution?
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Dan,
from what i remeber from the scene Kissinger says that the energy signature is similiar to that of dr. manahatan, and that is how they come to the conclusion that he was the cause...lame, probally..but in line with the parody, over the top government officials portrayed in the movie. Im not a die hard watchmen fan, but i enjoyed this movie quite a bit. I loved the violence, sex and characters. The only thing to me that was out of place was the music, a little cheesy in some parts..ie the long sex scene. hallelujah! -
original manchurian candidate is far superior to the updated version the grapes of wrath still packs quite an impact dr strangelove and fail safe still get their messages across it all depends on the director who is providing the message here is what was missing from the movie...the impact on all the regular people you hear and see characters talking about impending doom, but you dont see it in anyone else...except for talking heads on tv and from the president and his men moore knew this, that is why he included so many minor characters...it is through their eyes that you get to see and feel the hoplessness that surrounds humanity my one problem with the keane riots...it was shot from the backs of the rioters...in the book, you see their faces and hear as they call the comedian a rapist, as they scream about the masks putting their husband cops out of biz
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And then realize that any one of you who dares to be a worthless cunt like roddy or drturing is on the side of those people. THAT'S YOUR PERSPECTIVE RIGHT THERE, BITCHES. Those are YOUR PEOPLE. Those are YOUR KINDRED SPIRITS. That's where you live, roddy. Enjoy it.
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Can they?
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i'd rather hang out with those people than someone like you: a dude in his 40s who probably "shops" for his watchmen memoribilia at hot topic so he can hit on 14 year old fat chicks. you're such a man for being able to take the intense violence of Watchmen! Gimme a fucking break.
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Mar 08, 2009 8:12:16 PM CDT
im still trying to understand what was so bad about the sex scen
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
because it didnt get a bad reaction both times i saw it...hurm
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HAHAHAHA...Wolverine is gonna pulverize the Watchmen's opening weekend...Now go back to reading the graphic novel.
Love,
The Squid! -
[Alone in the space between space, and the time before time, Dr. Manhattan has an epiphany; remembering a book he is going to read (the Ægypt Cycle), he realizes the true nature of his existence…]
We live in tales, he thought, and tales have endings but no exits, except into their frame tales. He had failed; and yet there was no right thing he could have done, not with his powers, not about Laurie, not with anything, that was beyond or different from his attempts to do the right thing; there is no right way for stories to come out, only our struggles to make them come out right. Well he wasn’t going to stick around to see how this one came out. He exited now into the unimaginable frame tale of this tale, which held who knows what, another city and another dawn. He felt, like Laurie, afraid and happy.
Of course frame tales too have endings, endings of their own; but from them, too, you can exit only into further frame tales. Yes, Dr. Manhattan thought: yes, so we figure that out, maybe, finally, about our tales; and maybe we conceive the ambition to make our way—to think or hope our way—out from the tale we find ourselves in into the frame tale of that tale, where its terms were first set and its reasons for being told were given; and not to stop there, either, but to make it all the way out, tale into frame tale into frame tale to the authorial origin, the first once-upon-a-time of all.
Well fine. But to believe you really have made it all the way out is an illusion; for the tale has no author.
That is arrogance. To believe you can stand outside the story, with the Author, the book in your hand. In the beginning was the Word.
All right. But the greater error was the one that had tempted Jon himself, to believe that we ourselves are the authors of the tales we live within. That’s the ultimate arrogance of power, the arrogance of the gods: for all gods believe themselves self-created, and believe themselves to be issuing their own strong stories, news to us.
Well we don’t create them, those stories. They are uncreated; they come to us without our willing it, “from a region of awareness beyond our ken,” beyond even where the Powers are at war: countless tales or the same few tales in countless varieties, enough to go around, enough for each of us to have his own, only to learn it’s not his own at all. We have not created them—but we can learn compassion for those who are living and suffering alongside us within them (within the old tales, the old old tales) and trying to make them come out right, or to come out at all; maybe, after many adventures and much suffering, to exit to the frame.
Will we not, then, find what we seek at last? Will we not be saved? Will we not awaken? Yes, we will; surely we will; and not once either but many times: time after time.
Once, the world was not as it has since become. Once it worked in a way different from the way it works now; its very flesh and bones, the physical laws that governed it, were ever so slightly different from the ones we know. It had a different history, too, from the history we know the world to have had, a history that implied a different future from the one that has actually come to be, our present.
In that age (not really long ago in time, but long ago in other bridges crossed, which we shall not return by again), certain things were possible that are not now; and contrariwise, things we know not to have happened indubitably had then; and there were other differences large and small, none able now to be studied, because this is now, and that was then.
Actually, the world ("the world": all this; time and space; past, present, future; memory, stars, correspondences, physics; possibilities and impossibilities) has undergone such an agony more than once, many times maybe within the span of human life on earth, as we measure that life now in our age. And whenever it does happen, there comes a brief moment-a moment just as the world turns from what it has all along been into what it will from then on be-a brief time when every possible kind of universe, all possible extensions of Being in space or time, can be felt, poised on the threshold of becoming: and then the comer is turned, one path is taken, and all of those possibilities return into nonexistence again, except for one, this one. The world is as we know it now to be, and always has been; everyone forgets that it could be, or ever was, other than the way it is now.
But suppose the world is in fact now coming to an end, the world of Meaning we have always lived in. And suppose that the Powers who must make from it a new one—one that will be just like the old one in most but not all respects—are mulling just now over what sort the new world might be, and what garb they themselves might appear in too. If that’s the case, then that old multilayered earth and its shape-shifting travellers would have to be among the worlds from which they could choose—mutatis mutandis, the same but never exactly the same, take a little out of the waist and plump the shoulders. More likely not, thought; more likely they’ll choose something entirely different this time, something in a fierce hound’s-tooth maybe, or a moiré taffeta, eye-fooling, iridescent: can’t you see them (I can) moving amid the racks and counters fingering the goods, unable to decide, all possibilities laid out before them once again before they make their choice, thereafter to pretend (once again) that everything has always been this way, that they themselves have all along had these aspects and not others, rank on rank, the army of unalterable Law?
When the world ends it ends differently for each person then alive to see it, each person who chances to see it among all the other things to be seen and felt and understood around us all the time; and then very soon it begins again. And almost everyone persists, almost unchanged, into the new world, which is exactly like the old one in almost every respect, or seems to be in the brief moment when the old world can still be remembered.
Almost everyone.
The creatures of the passage time do not persist, who only came into existence for the length of time the world wavered undecided over what shape it would take next; they dissolve or are dismembered like the Golem, or they vacate their bodies and leave only bones, like the beings of the night sky who have left only bright dotted lines to show where once they were. And there are those who cannot persist because the new age was made out of their substance; the world ended in their knowledge that it would, and the new world was born of their ignorance of what it could be.
When the West was endless, a sea reaching into the sunset, that was where the beasts and heroes of an old age went at last, stepping aboard a ship restless at anchor, the sign of Cancer painted on their sails. After it had all been swept into the unrecoverable again, Rosicrucian brothers fleeing, the Stone, the Cup, the Rose all blown away again like leaves; under a fuliginous and pitchy sky (dawn due to come, but otherwhere and elsewhen than there and then) they would be gathered up, the one by one by an old man, his beard white as milk and a star on his forehead. Gathered up. Come along now, for our time is past.
So now too.
Well how?
With Hermes Mercurius, Messenger and Trickster, Shepherd of men into the land of death. At the end of every age he comes to ingather the gods and heroes of that age, who won’t survive its dissolution, to his City, which will at that time come to be in the westernmost limit of his disappearing land. Come along now it’s time.
One of their number though left behind in the storm of the world. They seal him in a boat and set him afloat on the years, to be both the message and the messenger. Like Jor-El amid the vastation of Krypton, sealing his own son within the capsule that will carry him into the far future and another world, to grow up no knowing his name or nature, the only one of his kind.
One time it was the man-king Hermes himself, the Thrice-great, self-interred or maybe helped into bed by his even greater progenitor, ibis-headed Theuth. Found centuries later, the Smaragdine Tablet gripped in his white hands. In a cave or something supposedly. And then there’s the Rosicrucians’ story of their founder, discovered in a tomb in a room in a cave.
Then at last would be the Great Instauration, not all at once or without costs or sorrows, but as last everywhere: a backward revolution, a backflip of wonder performed to turn the progress of the world around like a galleon and head it again for the Age of Gold, which lies in the past, in the beginning, but which could now be sought for in the time to come, as Hermes Thrice-great in Ægypt so long ago predicted: the restoration of all good things in the course of time by the will of God. Or by means of the gods, as the Giordanisti would always say it; meaning by gods nothing other than the Reasons of the World: the grammar of divine fecundity endless and ordered, the reasons that make all things to be as they are and yet make them always capable of transformation, the reasons that work and will go on working forever, just because they can: we call them gods because they are within us, because they made our bodies and our minds for us too, because we recognize their faces from long ago, because we love and need and fear them, every one.
And that is how the world came to be in which we would come to be. This world, our great wide wonderful beautiful world, and our benignant sun, Sol Apollo, since then grown even larger and more kind; and the great good beings who, like our Terra, circle him in love, those animals whom in time our æronauts will set out to visit, on winged ships that will be drawn up into the air and beyond the moon’s sphere by Will and his cousin Eros. Our seas teeming with metamorphosis, the great gems growing in our caves, watched over by solitary dæmons; our walled and towered cities guarded too by their own genii, our famous colleges and abbeys where no sort of wisdom is forbidden and no error punished except by laughter. Our many well-loved monarchs, kings, and emperors holding their inoffensive dream empires together simply by sitting still at their centers like queen bees, to be fed on royal jelly by wise magi, who then can draw from those princes’ fattened hearts the alphabet of all good things, Peace, Plenty, Justice, Delight, Wisdom, and Comfort. Mere signs, yes: but signs are food and nurture for us, they are in fact all the food and nurture that we need: all of us in here.
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It would appear that you've gotten some inaccurate numbers. (That's what you get for believing what you read on something called the "innernet".
Firstly, WB ended up spending only about 30 million total in advertising on Watchmen. (Trust me on this, I work for Omnicom.) Due to this country's current fiscal state, the advertising industry is being hit harder than most. Television and print ad revenue are at the lowest they've been since the early 90's and WB (and ANYONE advertising ANYTHING right now for that matter) got RIDICULOUS deals on all their paid commercial advertising for Watchmen. i.e. the WB marketing dept. ended up getting all that Watchmen advertising you saw everywhere for about 60% of what they were planning on paying.
So before you accuse people of not knowing "what it means to work and live in Hollywood" you might want to do a little research on what's happening currently on Madison Avenue. -
This is the problem with making a movie from a book that a bunch of people are obsessed with, they will always think that it is missing SOMETHING and should include more... THIS IS NOT A BOOK, IF YOU WANT A LONGER STORY READ THE BOOK it didn't need 15 minutes more. Godfather 2 worked well because it actually worked as a long movie, with watchmen there were a LOT of scenes that could have been cut or modified without destroying the film... again, this would have pissed off fans who insisted on a page-by-page adaptation, but would have made the movie work a hell of a lot better
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Whatever he said I'm down with!
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I deem this movie a movie for fucknuts. Why? One reason.
"The Watchmen" -
I thought it was visually impressive.I really did enjoy the performances of the actors who played the watchmen,but I tell yah, I'm beginning to agree with some,that Watchmen is just TOO big. I mean,I understand that when Hollywood decides to adapt any written material,things will be lost in the transfer to screen,but I don't know.I wasn't happy with the ending. It lost me there.It lacked the emotional impact. With that being said. I think Zack and company did a fabulous job OVERALL. May I say too,that think Jackie Earle Haley now OWNS rorschach!I liked Patrick wilson as NITE-OWL.He,in my opinion,like J.E.H.,captured the soul of the character.
Ok.It may just be me but after awhile the soundtrack with all the highlighted popular music of the particular decade,was getting on my nerves for some reason..it just started sounding a bit hokey.
that's my 2 cents. -
Isn't this the same fuckin guy who did NBA Michael Jordan DVD's??? What did you expect Coppola or scorsese???
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Like quite a lot of its audience did. FUN FACT: Warner Brothers attributes almost a third of the box office for 300 to repeat viewings from a substantial homosexual audience (both "out" AND closeted.)
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Earthquake, you keep making the argument that the mainstream audience doesn't like it. Maybe the mainstream audience you are talking to is almost as retarded as you. Of the 30 or so people I have talked to, all the non-comic fans really enjoyed it. The only complaints have been from the people who had previously read the comics. And, everyone who hadn't read it said they were now planning on picking it up. Maybe the "mainstream" you are talking to are the same people who were impressed with Bush's staggering intellect.
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I copied this from the Yahoo review board. I will never complain about AICN talk backers again, we are all apparently geniuses.
"PLEASE DON'T MAKE PART 2
by kayfabe102871 (movies profile) Mar 6, 2009
9 of 14 people found this review helpful
We was really looking forward to seeing a good movie.But this was a real waste of time.It was porn not art but porn.We really hated it we was not the only ones.A lot of people just got up and walked out.If i had to do it again i wish we had did it as well."
I predict a steep drop off in week two box office. Unless armies of rabid fanboys see it four or five times in IMAX this will probably be considered a flop. -
I don't get why people complain about the slow mo... i like it. The alternative could have been like transporter 3 where they have statham, who knows how to kick ass and can do rediculous things, but instead some MTV generation editor went the whole quick cut route where you can barely see what's going on. action editing like that is for movies where the actors can't fight--statham could fight. I would take slow mo every single time if it meant not having to watch quick cut bullshit.
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Why is it, Alan Moore can be called a visionary, when basically all he does is take other people's ideas and restructure them. Lost Girls, not his characters, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, not his characters. Even Watchmen was originally planned to be DC mainstream characters, he only created new ones because DC wouldn't let him use them. Zack Snyder on the other hand, is called a hack because he takes other people's ideas and restructures them. WHAT THE HELL?
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Still acting like a dick.
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Watchmen at it's best is a benignant instauration. I was wondering what that crazy looking old guy sitting in front of me was scribbling furiously on the back of a candy wrapper all through the movie. Now I know.
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Yeah I don't see what was bad about the sex scene either. In fact it should be pretty much all most nerds can hope for, that among their group of friends, the random hot girl sees them as the last man standing.
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Is actually pretty genius, ESPECIALLY when it occurs RIGHT after he's decided he appreciates life and likes humanity because of the miracle it represents. And this comes from someone who thinks they should have left in the squid.
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Why framing Doc M works. After reading all those yahoo user reviews it is obvious that the world is terrified of enourmous blue male genitalia.
As Frank T.J. Mackey said in "Magnolia","Respect the cock!" -
...If I'm not supposed to believe what I read on the innernets, then why should I believe you? Say you shave off the 20mil from the 50 figure in my equation: (and I already stated innerent #'s were estimates) they're still WAY short on turning anything on this. And for that, I am simply bummed and not a hater of the film. I'd like to see it do better than it will, so we get more movies of its and Fight Club's ilk.
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The haters lost, they were wrong. The general consensus is that the movie is good; ranging from "ok" to "great but flawed". That's why the haters are reposting their vitriol-filled comments, over and over, picking at nits. They can't accept that they've been shown to be wrong.
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... with all this talk about the box office.1. It's only been out for one weekend, for blue god's sake! Granted, the opening weekend is usually the most intense income period for a movie, but it is not the ONLY time it makes money.2. The fact that Americans only ever get to hear about the American box office does NOT mean you can automatically discount the rest of the fucking planet, ok? Look at any film in the top however-many films and I can all but guarantee that it made AT LEAST 50% of its gross outside of the US.3. Even discounting the rest of the world as America likes to do so well, it's already been noted that $55 million is a FANTASTIC US opening weekend for any R-rated film. Bear in mind that it's NOT a sequel, it DOESN'T feature any major star appeal, it's NOT based on a well known work (in terms of sheer numbers sold) and it IS being released in March, traditionally one of the slowest months of the year for cinema attendance, and I'd be surprised if there's EVER been a better opening weekend for a movie under those conditions. Were people honestly expecting $200 million on the first day or something? If so, how fucking much does your cinema charge?!4. People conveniently seem to forget that the theatrical run of Watchmen is one of MANY revenue streams for this film. In addition you have: theatrical cut DVD, theatrical cut blu-ray, black freighter/under the hood DVD, black freighter/under the hood blu-ray, motion comic DVD, motion comic blu-ray, extended cut (mid-length one) DVD, extended cut blu-ray, ultimate edition (with everything included) DVD, ultimate edition blu-ray, plus AT LEAST one release of the score/songs, almost certainly on more than one format. These will bring in FAR more money than any theatrical release ever could. Add to that unconfirmed rumours that one of the two extended cuts may get a cinema release in the summer and that's a lot of potential revenue streams.Despite all this, there are already posts above saying it "failed" at the box office - IN THE PAST TENSE!! Anybody spouting this nonsense is clearly a dumb bastard with their own agenda and own desire to see this film fail for whatever reason, but I couldn't let it go.Either that, or they're clairvoyant. In which case, any chance of next week's lottery numbers?
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They're starting to give fanboys and geeks a bad name.
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Mar 08, 2009 9:10:12 PM CDT
opening credits sucked donkey balls and were pointless
by phoenixmagida5th
Everyone keeps goig on and on about ow greeat they were. They weren't. They blew. There is a reason the comic started after the death of he comedian and learning about the minutemen as the story and world drew us in. It takes you out of the movie for one thing. I'm ok with the change that we see the comdeian killed not in flashbacks but that it starts the film. That's cool although that svene needed to be shortened and gotten right to the point. Then these stupid opening credits start that take are soo long they have to start the bob dyaln song twice!!! Its not that long if you ever listened to it. They play it again after it ends. They could of trimmed it down so that it all fell within the first go around. Also its doesn't add anything for all we really need to know about the minutemen learn as we roschach reads his journal on the way to see the doc as far as the movie goes and its covered nicely aleeady in the comedian rape flashback that it slows the actual momentum of the story. It was only in there for hardcore dfans and could be put on the extended dvd. It did nothing for the story. We learn about the minutemen later and it seems like retreard when we get to that point. Movie was decent not great.
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the movie was good. All I really wanted was to see the graphic novel on a movie screen, and for the most part I got to. If you expected Watchmen to be a genre changing, or eye opening experience to movie goers around the globe then you were kidding yourself. It's a self contained story, not an open ended one like other comic properties. If they had really changed the shit out of it we'd be hearing from similar cunts complaining about that (just like with lotr). Fuck that, and fuck them. It was great, and I can't wait for the directors cut. It can't be long enough.
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The people talking about the box office in negative terms are clearly the "haters" who had already made up their mind about the film months ago and can't stand the fact that the general consensus is now against them (on this site at least). They are now clutching at straws so badly that 4th best all-time opening (is that right?) for an R-rated movie is suddenly a "failure".In other news, today scientists confirmed that only 3 R-rated movies have ever made profit...Give it a rest, guys! If you saw the film and didn't like it, fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. However, judging any movie, record, book or any other form of art based purely on your own prejudices without ever bothering to experience it is EXACTLY the same as judging someone on the colour of their skin. The consequences may not be as bad for all concerned (it would be flippant to suggest anything to the contrary), but you're still a prejudiced son of a bitch!
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Why do people care about how much $ it makes, besides the studios? If you hated the film and want it to bomb, well whatever. They keep saying it underperformed. I think it did fine. It's a R Rated superhero film, with a property unknown to most people, and a long ass running time. I think it did very well and will easily make it's money back with dvd etc. It was a gamble and a hard sell at the get go, and if WB didn't carpetbomb with their super aggressive marketing campaign it would probably have only done sin city #'s.
300 wasn't seen to the public at large as a comic book movie, but as a swords and sandals pic, so it's apples and oranges.
Besides no film could do DK like #'s without a known cultural icon, and we don't need it making such a killing they make a stupid sequel, which you know damn well they would if they get more $. -
Seriously it's not like this is a franchise and because it made 55.5 opening weekend were not going to get a sequel, it doesn't matter. THE MOVIE GOT MADE! As close to a direct adaption as you ever could have gotten GO MADE. It could make $10 worldwide and fact of the matter is IT GOT MADE, theres no franchise to come of this, so if it's considered a bomb how does it affect Watchmen? Are you gonna be calling for a remake/reboot in 5 years? NO! And considering what this movie potentially ended up becoming over the years, you should be happy you got this and not some modernized version that barely relates to the GN. Seriously stop the bitching about it bombing or whatever IT DOESNT MATTER, IT GOT MADE!
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No one is paying attention when Rorshach (quickly) goes over what happened with the Minutemen, so your criticisms are moot. Putting their story in the opening credits is a great idea, bc if they dealt with it the way you suggest, non-readers would not really grasp ANY of their story.
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Well worth the price of admission. Also am looking forward to the Blu Ray release. Good cast in that they took chances following the comic as close as they did. I was somewhat disappointed by 300 but this tell me Zach Snyder can be as good a director as he strives to be.
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if moore is such an incompetent, how is it that he and gibbons were the ones who created watchmen, and no one else? by the way, he did do from hell, v for vendetta, the entire abc line of original characters, has written two novels, etc he is like jack kirby, with a mind filled with amazing characters and worlds? nope...cuz no one is like kirby but he is an amazing writer, ande a heck of a nice guy
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if moore is such an incompetent, how is it that he and gibbons were the ones who created watchmen, and no one else? by the way, he did do from hell, v for vendetta, the entire abc line of original characters, has written two novels, etc he is like jack kirby, with a mind filled with amazing characters and worlds? nope...cuz no one is like kirby but he is an amazing writer, ande a heck of a nice guy
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I spoke only to the advertising numbers as it's my line of work, but MCVamp's post at 07:07:43 PM is spot on when it comes to the multitude of ways that WB will not only recoup their investment in Watchmen, but indeed make them a handsome amount of cash. To think that this movie is not going turn a profit for them is nothing but straight up ignorance, end of story.
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My wife and I both enjoyed WATCHMEN very much. I read the comic book series, way back when. (I actually sold my original issues a long time ago, which may not have been the smartest move.) Anyway, I'll admit that while I recognize the groundbreaking work for what it was (and still is), I found the visual interpretation to movie screen to be a richer experience,...despite losing various details that, most of which, I no longer remember. And this is one particular time that I approve of the Hollywood bookends, so-to-speak. Having shared this movie experience with my wife, we both look forward to the extended cut on blu-ray,...while she looks forward to discovering the book for the first time. (And just maybe I'll have to give it another read, having a more mature perspective.)
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Please don't tell me you used 'from hell' as an argument for Moore's originality. Of course you're not wrong in your ideals. I mean he's a better writer than me, But he seems like a crank to me, not wanting his name on the adaptation of his (most famous?) work, just because they actually wanted it to make contextual sense outside of the rather bizarre, yet entirely narrow field of comic books. They wanted people like me, who never read watchmen to find a reason to read it. But perhaps, now that I've seen how childish Moore is, I won't buy his book.
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I was looking forward to this. Reviews had me scared.
But who cares. My opinion: This may be the greatest movie ever made.
Can't wait to see the extra stuff that was cut out. -
I like Zack Snyder and his films. He's creative, enthusiastic, detail-oriented, and thorough. I'm really looking forward to all his future projects.
Unfortunately, I didn't much like "Watchmen." It's not Snyder's fault, I just found myself not caring about any of the characters. To me they were all self-important assholes, which I'm sure was part of Alan Moore's commentary on superheroes. This is fine with me.
I just wanted at least one moment where I was moved (in the dramatic sense) and it never happened. I think that's just comics distancing themselves from reality.
I enjoyed the spectacle of "Watchmen," just not the story. -
It was alright. JEH was awesome. I thought the starting credits were a bit pointless - people who hadn't read the comic wouldn't know what the fuck most of it was. I saw it with two friends, neither had read the comic. One thought it was OK, but too long and boring in places (too many monologues). The other got there 20 mins late and didn't know what the fuck was going on for the rest of the movie.
Some things I don't get is: Manhattan can pretty much make anything - I remember some bit in the comic talking about a technology relying on some rare/extinct metal became mainstream because Manhattan could just create more of that metal - why the hell doesn't he just create enough resources for everyone, thereby solving that whole "war is greed" problem Veidt talking about at the start? Beats killing 15 million people.Also, why aren't there more Manhattans - they know how he was created. First thing I'd do as that Wally character would go lock myself in the intrinsic field generator. Hello 12 inch blue cock, bitches! That reminds me, Ozy better watch his back - Bubastis is going to be pissed once she figures how to put herself back together again.
Oh, and where the fuck did Laurie get a gun from? -
on Veidt's device's operation panel. Not so subtle dig at the outraged fanbois, I'm guessing?
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OOPS, its just me! mmmmmmmmmmmmm hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Watched it again this afternoon. Picked up on things that I missed in the 1st viewing. The opening credits are great. The Comedian/ Rorschach own the movie any time they are on screen. I'm not going to nit pick the small shit cause the Director's Cut will probably make up for it.
I actually felt something when Rorschach died. I think the ending works very well for the movie, and I don't get the bitching about the fight scenes?! They were cool, it seemed as Ozy could just whup the shit outta everyone.
Good fucking movie, good fucking adaption. -
The great reviews this movie seems to have are from people from fanboys, and most of the folks who loved the book. But all the regular folks that went thinking they were going to see an action packed entertaining movie will be telling everyone else what a piece of shit it was. I liked the film although it was an hour too long and disappointing. But I'll be surprised if Warner makes its moneyback, they probably spent 20 million on the pic and 3 times more than that on prints and advertising. The 55 million take gotta split that in half cuz cinemas get half of that, and toy sales will probably be very poor. We'll see.
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thank you. people seem to think america is the only place movies are released. and albums. d-bags. 55 mil is a good take anyway. superman returns and opened with around 52 mil and crossed 200 mil after a pretty sizeable second week drop off!! (yes i know that 200 mil was a dissapointment for that movie seeing as money equals quality to most poeple here) so if watchmen makes about 200 mil what will you guys have to say??
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...at the Dome in Hollywood. He giggled loudly at all the gore, but overall he did what I did: sat there and absorbed it all. After the credits I wasn't sure if I liked it or not and I asked the Ultimate Geek and he said quietly, "I liked it." You'd have to figure HE'D be more excited by it.
I told my friend that some comic books aren't meant to be movies and Watchmen was proof. -
Yes I think you both have valid points and examples, but I also think it is a matter of proximity aand perspective. I think that twentieth century people can "appreciate" the themes that say Shakespeare put in all or most of his(?) plays, but you also have to remember that his plays were written as social commentary of his current times and his current ruling class, which would have a different meaning for shakespeare's contemporaries than it would for us.
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Yes I think you both have valid points and examples, but I also think it is a matter of proximity aand perspective. I think that twentieth century people can "appreciate" the themes that say Shakespeare put in all or most of his(?) plays, but you also have to remember that his plays were written as social commentary of his current times and his current ruling class, which would have a different meaning for shakespeare's contemporaries than it would for us.
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Had small nit picky issues with it but mainly, it was awesome woo
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by the way, sorry for the typos... I just think that you overiding fear of nuclear holocaust is not as immediate and REAL for a twenty something in 2008 as it was/is for someone living in let's say Florida during the Cuban missile crisis.
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well....hmmm...well....I guess that I believe that time has eroded the ability of Alan Moore's original narrative to generate real in depth thought and discussion due to the fact that it is so wedded to specific cultural icons based in a specific time... and thus, you see more discussions about blue cocks and box office reciepts as though the mean any goddamn thing at all.
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before I get the usual comments about this being a "lowbrow" site were such discussion are as foriegn as, well, glowing blue weiners, I just want to say that I have held this story dear for so long that I just wanted it to mean something more than that.
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Not only was it was a faithful rendition, but it was also violent as fuck, and pushed gore FORWARD in action movies. This is the kind of post-Matrix action I expect from now on. This movie was a lot better than 300, closer to Dawn of the Dead. Snyder has Michael Bay aspirations and scale, but has more sincere craftmanship. How can we complain about Watchmen when it could have been butchered by someone like Jonathan Mostow a la Terminator 3?
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Normally I'm big on box office, but Watchmen is one and done. This isn't Serenity where a big box office could mean resurrection, or Iron Man where sequels aren't guaranteed.
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...I thought the same thing about Bubastis coming back from the ether. A near-omnipotent mutant lynx? I smell a sequel!
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i saw it three times this weekend, it lived up to my expectations even exceeded them in some respects. i loved every minute of it.
time before AICN talkback explodes because someone said something positive about the movie: T- minus 30 seconds and counting -
1) RR being Reagan instead of Redford: apparently subtlety was killed by Doc Manhattan too
2) Why did it become Osterman's watch instead of Janey's? -
HISS HISS! Someone, anyone tell me Malin Ackerman's performance was incredible. Someone, anyone, tell me that Watchmen made them ponder man's place in the universe. Someone, anyone tell me that they are sitting there stewing over the fact that Matthew Goode's incredible portrayal of Ozymandias has made them question what power may be required of man to avert self destruction. Somebody tell me the sex scene was moving and lifelike. Somebody say My Chemical Romance's cover was awesome. Oh wait, you can't.
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Apparently everyone on these talk backs. I liked the movie, it exceeded my expectations, however I am a fan of the graphic novel. However, for those who never read Watchmen, I can see how some may hate it.
Also, I thought this ending was better than the comics. I think using Dr Manhattan as the weapon was a way better idea than the squid. -
The movie's pacing was perfect for me, and I thought everyone did a great job. Certain scenes were BETTER than the graphic novel, and Ozymendias was better developed. However, the New York devestation wasn't as powerful. A minor gripe hopefully remedied by the director's cut. Still, I can't believe how faithful it was. Really powerful.
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Actually, see my comment above re: Old Testament God Manhattan. It did make me think about the changes in societal thought since the Enlightenment. It also made me think that Veidt's plan wasn't very smart.
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but does he deserve ot really? i mean the images he puts on screen are directly from the book. i felt like i had seen it already it as i was watching due to how faithful he was. i am not saying he is a bad director but to call him a visionary is a bit odd.
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If you're on the fence about seeing this a 2nd time and you can afford to do so, you should. The message to the suits needs to be that adult themed movies like this will make money with an R rating. That the community that bitches the most will support these kind of projects. The fact that lame ass horror like Saw gets support year after year means nothing because it's merely written off as horror. A movie like Watchmen making a lot of money enables talented and visionary directors the freedom to make movies like Kubrick was allowed to make. Lucas and Spielberg fucked the whole thing up with all their PG blockbusters. It's time to reclaim a more mature cinema. It sucks that Watchmen isn't perfect, but it's good enough to make a statement to the execs who tell people like me to take scenes and dialogue out of our scripts for the ratings boards and middle America. I hope Watchmen has legs and I give Snyder a lot of credit for fighting and executing a specific vision w/o many compromises other than time constraints.
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im going to defend snyders decision to have lenord cohen playing while nite owl and silk specter pork, it was a classy move, well played mr snyder...well played
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fanboys win either way. Here's hoping someone continues the work Snyder started, and makes a FULL ADAPTATION of the comic. FULL. Black Freighter, the blokes on the newsstand, excerpts from "Under the Hood", magazine interviews, The New Frontiersman, the murder of Nite Owl 1, and most importantly, the completely objective direction, so the audience can't judge the characters as 'good' or 'bad'
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This was my response to the many negative reviews that Watchman was getting at cinemamontreal.com. I'm still scratching my head trying to understand how anyone with reasonable intelligence could not appreciate this movie. Here is what I thought... As a fan of comic books in general, there is absolutely no question that this is THE BEST adaptation ever committed to screen. The director, Zack Snyder, literally used the book as his storyboards and you can see his respect for the source material in every frame of the picture. The ending, though slightly changed, is actually an improvement over the original Outer Limits inspired plot (and look for a tip of the hat to the TV series in one of the final scenes of the movie). I will agree that the movie is NOT intended for a younger audience. Also if you are someone that has absolutely no attention span from years of watching music videos, reality TV and bad sitcoms, then you should probably avoid this movie as you would a public library. For the rest of you, see why Time magazine rated the Watchmen graphic novel as one of the top 100 novels of all time.
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Mar 08, 2009 10:47:41 PM CDT
yes it matters how much it makes. sure. but
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
for as long as ive been coming to this site, when a movie bombs, it almost always instanly becomes crappy. even when people didnt see it.
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I was sold in the first five minutes when they showed JFK's head being blown off. That takes real balls, and I hate it when movies shield me from violence or controversy. I want it laid out bare in front of my eyes. They took an even that is touchy even today and just put it out there. Same thing with sawing the guys arms off in the jail, no punches were pulled there. This is the kind of gore and violence I want on full display.
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If you've read the comics, you've already ruminated on all the ideas posed in the movie. So what does that leave for those of us with reasonable intelligence? Appreciation that the movie was made? Sure, ok, I can appreciate it. But there's no there there. I don't feel any desire to revisit the film simply because I visited it numerous times before I saw it.
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This adaptation was a waste of time and money that did nothing but half-ass its way through Moore and Gibbons' masterpiece. A juvenile rendition of superior material. Synder should stick to simpler stories from now on - this one was way beyond his stretch. Good performances by Jackie Earle Haley and Jeffrey Dean Morgan but it isn't enough to redeem the nonsense around them.
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The funniest part of this whole thing is that people are saying Watchmen's themes are dated.. the themes were even dated in 85. When it was made in 85 it should have been set 10 years prior in 75.. which is probably why Moore had Nixon still in it. Also, people say the movie is flat and the dilogue is wooden and the ending had no impact.. Zack nailed it. That's the comic, too! People say all the movie has is some cool visuals and Roeschach.. that's all the comic had too!
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MORE ARCHIE SCENES ;P
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you will CREAM YOUR PANTS when you watch JFK. It takes the early part of Watchmen with JFKs head exploding and stretches it to three hours, and it just rubs your face in the president's head exploding again and again and again. Me personally I thought that bullshit CGI reconstruction of the scene made it look like a fucking cartoon.
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You prob have a point. Sadly, I've never seen JFK, so I didn't know the precedent. Additionally now I look a huge asshole. But I still loved the WATCHMEN
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the reason watchmen is doomed at domestic b.o. is because of the steep dropoff day after day and the low cinemascore raiting it got. in other words... WORD OF MOUTH. People are talking shit about the movie here cause in real life people are talking shit about the film and telling people not to go see it.
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Mar 08, 2009 11:05:11 PM CDT
The book was pretty important. It did win the Hugo.
by joker gordon levitt
The only graphic novel to win a Hugo award. It allowed readers to see comic books as serious literature. A Watchmen film should have legitimized comic-book films just as the novel did. But, TDK managed to get that done first.
And to those who loved the movie: Im with you, I enjoyed the flick. But a direct adaptation would have sent you home a changed being, instead of a happy movie-goer. -
Mar 08, 2009 11:05:22 PM CDT
The book was pretty important. It did win the Hugo.
by joker gordon levitt
The only graphic novel to win a Hugo award. It allowed readers to see comic books as serious literature. A Watchmen film should have legitimized comic-book films just as the novel did. But, TDK managed to get that done first.
And to those who loved the movie: Im with you, I enjoyed the flick. But a direct adaptation would have sent you home a changed being, instead of a happy movie-goer. -
Mar 08, 2009 11:06:29 PM CDT
ok drturning so mall cop is good right?
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
because it has good legs and people are saying its funny? jeez my life makes so much sense now.
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Im informing Laurie 90 seconds ago
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That moving comic they're selling the DVD of now (I watched the first chapter, not bad, but I could read faster so I didn't see the point ... maybe if I ever go blind or something)
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This movie turns women off. I took a date who I could fairly expect a blowjob from, given that I already use Valtrex and I could see the cold sores she had from her days as a Puddle of Mudd Groupie, well this movie made her fucking turned off. She was halfheartedly giving me a BJ on my jetski after the movie when she started gagging. She pulls back and has the fuckin nerve to tell me she couldn't stop thinking about Roarshock killing that man. Go to this movie with a date if you want a dry vicious handjob, buddies. Nash out.
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Seriously, I loved the thing. I didn't expect the book or to for it to strike me like the book did because that's impossible. I'd already read the book. There's no way to go back. I saw it twice this weekend and will probably go again before it leaves theaters. I genuinely don't know what most of you people are bitching about but to each his own. I thought it was possibly the best comic book adaption I'd ever seen.
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Mar 08, 2009 11:10:11 PM CDT
I think this movie will be in the top ten for a while
by joker gordon levitt
Not in the 1st place spot, but in the top ten for a while. People will go when they hear about how awesome Rorschach is. At least until Tyler Perry makes his version of Watchmen.
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Hell yes I will go see Observe and Report like forty times. And fuck the Native Americans. I don't care how high you get me I still ain't dancin with no fucking wolves.
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i couldn't believe no one complained about that line missing!
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I was totally fine with the new ending, sort of an alternate approach and made a lot of sense. I would have enjoyed a playful reference to the squid. Manhatten should have made himself disapear in the end, dematerialize on a chemical level, seems more the character. Whatever, I dug the flick.
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But I could see the reason for the change. I'm more upset about the "I see the world didn't end yesterday"/"are you sure?" exchange not happening.
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one thing i missed was that scene, and veidt saying I DID IT!! i thought we were about to get it when he was staring at the screen ssaying "all my life..." but no dice. loved the movie BUT DAMN! i just wanted to hear that...
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As if holding out on this one is really going to get you that last 10% - 20% towards the kind of big budget comic book / genre film that you've always demanded and so richly deserve.
I mean, really? You are that freaking mad about this not being the squiddishly fanstastic movie you had in your head that you're going to try to badmouth this one into box office failure, because it's only just partway awesome?
Because that's going to work out well, isn't it, freaking out the suits from making more R rated, serious takes at graphic novels or other genre pieces in the future.
Go back and watch Judge Dredd and The Postman and Catwoman, and then settle in for your future, you bunch of crybabies. -
it gets women in the mood...
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Mar 08, 2009 11:17:42 PM CDT
yea but the dark knight was pretty important and
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
didnt win the oscar
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And now, of course, I wish I still had never heard it. Oy vay!
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Mar 08, 2009 11:18:45 PM CDT
carla gugino gets me in the mood
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
even when robert deniro is fucking her on a couch by the kitchen.
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Also Veidt asking Jon if he approves ("Did I do it right?") And Veidt;s laugh. Its not a victory for a pompous ass like Veidt if he doesn't laugh at his own success. And I think the ass-whuppin he administered to Rorschach and Nite Owl was better when they got him during dinner. Glad the kept the bullet catch anyway.
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Big deal. Sex is fleeting. Women are inconsistent at best, unreliable at worst. Watchmen was over two and a half hours. Handjobs and blowjobs, although satisfying, never last long enough. I'd rather go to screenings of Watchmen every day for a month than to suffer thirty fucking nags who only see the flaws in their fellow women and expect you to be some majestic, sensitive-yet-assertive cockmachine. It takes much less commitment and double standards to be a Watchmen fan. Seriously, some of you guys in these talkbacks spend so much time trying to convince us you've been laid that I have to wonder if it's just an act. Puddle of Mudd groupie? Funny, I thought those radio friendly proteges of Fred Durst were faggots.
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Mar 08, 2009 11:21:53 PM CDT
Are you fucking pulling my leg kid from 3rd Rock
by kenny_fuckin_powers
I ain't singing about no Jesus while I'm about to ejaculate my cum onto a woman's nose bridge. Give me some goddamn Motley Crue any time.
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Good luck watching that scene NOW
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Thats why its important Watchmen does well in the box office... I will boycott Terminator 4 if its PG-13... And could you imagine how insane a Rated R Wolverine movie would be??? The thing is franchises like X-men, Terminator, etc are so popular, they would make a bajillion dollars no matter what rating they got...
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As in, one of the 3 NCSA boys responsible for the character's creation? The TB voice sounds pretty authentic to me.
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How do you aim with such precision on JET SKI?! Im lucky if i can keep it off my roof.
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Mar 08, 2009 11:25:08 PM CDT
what kind of sick fuck uses a song about Baby Jesus
by kenny_fuckin_powers
during a bit of Skinemax mid movie? that is just goddamn wrong and very immoral. i i will admit, however, that Mae-lin Achingnuts gave me a semi. Not full, but a semi. But I've been hitting the roids lately.
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FOREVER
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I know who that is now. Yeah Vader, I think its him. I can't smell the booze, but i can taste the self-loathing
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during the music montages
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Mar 08, 2009 11:30:30 PM CDT
i liked the fight scene at the end A LOT
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
but sure i like the dinner scene to. pretty bad ass.
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Isn't she a goddamn Swede or something? Fucking rockin body man, like she was on a bikini team or some shit. I used to have girls like that over all the time to my cookouts. She makes me feel like I've been to Ikea. Like I have a bunch of wood that I don't know what to do with and where to put it. At least my ten bucks put that in mind before I busted my nut on Ms. Daytona Thunder wet t shirt contest 1986.
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brilliant, complex, dense storytelling....opening credits w/ Bob Dylan song was fantastic, really transported me into this superhero world, but the middle was muddled and the ending was unsatisfying. The film went from specific details to vague explanations.
Really makes me want to read the book to see what was missing b/c I'm thinking waaaaaaaay too much. -
Watchmen has to do well at the box office. I know there's been rumors that Dark Tower will be an HBO mini-series and that might be the way it comes out...but it also may come out as a series of features. Those need to be R. They need to be hard. They need to push the envelope. If Watchmen barely cracks 100 million domestic it's tough for the next director who tells the studio I want to do it R rated with gore, sex and violence -- no compromises. Quentin can still make films that way thank God, but we need more than Quentin to return cinema to mature again. You realize in the past few years we've seen PG rated Alien films and Die Hard. That shit needs to stop. Watchmen doing well will only help push the envelope back to where it was where you can combine adult storytelling with geeky cool flicks. Now, I'll get off my soapbox. You guys get the point. If you liked Watchmen and want to see it another time, don't let the haters talk you out of it. There's a lot of great in the movie and a lot that leaves you flat. Personally, I felt the same exact way reading the graphic novel back when I did.
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I think if Ackerman and Keira Knightley got in a cat-fight, the only person that would watch is michael jackson.
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Heh, yeah, cos the last thing the we need is an omnipotent mutant lynx that can turn all the world's gold into catnip.
I see the gun thing has been explained, I should pay more attention. Admittedly, the problems I have are inherent to the comic itself - but if you make an all-powerful god-like character you need to neuter them somehow, or they become the deus ex machina of all the world's problems. I vaguely recall something in the comic asking why Manhattan just doesn't disintegrate all the nukes around the globe, and a certain percentage he could take out in event of a launch. But he need not even bother doing that, just create enough food, water and fuel for everyone and the reasons for most wars go out the window. And I still think if Jon's collegue had any intelligence, as soon as he found out he had cancer, he'd be "Fuck it, off to the instrinsic field generator room!" Better odds than kicking cancer. -
R Rated Robocop sequelR Rated Predator 3R Rated Escape from Earth. Tired, tired, TIRED of PG-13.
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I want a ride in the intrinsic field generator. I don't want to go to work tomorrow.
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they're creeping up behind Veidt and the television stations he's watching one by one are getting destroyed...pretty cool.
Though I think I like him pushing the button in the comic instead of the flash outside his complex.
I also miss the part when he opens his biosphere to the snow. -
The movie made it seem like they all knew karate and some had gadgets. Any more explanation to why they are "super" in the book?
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I'm not a regular poster, but I'm a big Watchmen fan. Just got back from my 2nd 1/2 viewing (injested certain substances before viewing #2 and dozed off a view times). In short, I think it's fantastic. After the first viewing I thought that Snyder had made as faithful an adpatation as realistically possible, but that it might not offer much to someone who isn't familiar with the material. After this most recent viewing, I truly believe that this is a genuinely good movie. It's friggin' dense - not as dense as the book, but pleanty dense for a Hollywood would-be blockbuster. There's a ton of foreshadowing of major events in the movie. Even something like Elinor Clift on the McLachlin Group saying, "maybe the whole world feels cornered by Dr. Manhattan" - puts Veidt's plan into perspective.
I guess I'm a bit miffed that the reaction to this film among fans isn't universally positive. Sure it's not perfect, but people who say that this film is a total misfire, or that Snyder "clearly doesn't get it" either a) have unrealistic ideas about the compromises that are necessary when a director makes a big, expensive studio film or b) are adopting a pretty pretentious view of the graphic novel, as though no one could possibly understand the nuances like they can. I understand non-geek moviegoers quibbling about length, but any self-proclaimed fan ought to be glad that Snyder was so adamant about staying true to the GN that he may have hurt the film's commercial chances in the process.
The only criticisms that I really have are that Ozymandias gets the shaft in terms of character development (maybe the director's cut will address this), and Leonard Cohen during the sex scene was a bad choice. Akerman isn't Sofia Coppola bad, she's just forgettable. The film drags in the middle, but again, it drags for the sake of staying true to the material. The Nite Owl/Silk Spectre apartment building rescue could have been taken out and the audience wouldn't have missed it. But then we wouldn't see how being a hero again gives Dreiberg his virility back. We wouldn't understand how doomed these characters are without their heroic identities. Snyder could have made a ton of narrative choices that would have cut the film down to 2 hours and made it a straightforward whodunit with superheros - but he didn't. He chose to be faithful to the book. There's no Hollywood happy ending here, and that's going to turn off a lot of people. But it ought to make the fans happy. This film is a gift to geekdom, and for making a more-than-credible attempt at filming what many had deemed to be unfilmable, Snyder deserves some major props. -
Astounded that this movie got made at all, and that it is a good as it is.Astounded by how pathetic and whiney and contentious so many of you spoiled shitheads are about it. - - - People who write "would of" and "could of" instead of "would have/ could have" are fucking retards anyhow. Thanks for the pointless depressing Talkback. Enjoy the Collapse.
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Michael Jackson and me.
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How did TDK legitimise comic book films exactly? It won an acting Oscar and one for sound editing. Now if you tell me that it legitimised sound design in comic movies, I'll believe that. But it's still not a movie that average people want to watch for average reasons. Not that I'm saying you have to win an Oscar to be a proper film, but I don't see anything with comic book associated with it, ever being seen as cinema. The same as video games. I am fairly convinced that by the time video games have the same maturity as a medium that comic books have now, they will be reaching for this same 'legitimacy'. It does not mean they'll ever get it, no matter how important, high brow, profitable, or successful they become.
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I'm aware of the ancillaries. You're aware they also cost money to make? Can they print the DVDs accurately enough so they don't get caught with a surplus? Sure. But I see piles of those film tie in books in every bookstore, and I'd wager to say that's a tie-in loss. This won't do Superman Returns overseas BO, so I don't see it as an avenue that's going to make up for a tight domestic take. And converting to "Super HD" or "3-D" as the post you're referring to cites will cost MORE MONEY when they do it. Also, all of those "rights" he listed are no doubt going to be less due to the economy (like your advert rates) AND the poor showing at the BO: HBO would spend much more $$ to show TDK than they will Watchmen when all is said and done. I don't the WB spent close to 200Mil to create a commercial to make money on the graphic novel. Again, I liked the film but it isn't going to be seen as a financial success which is what I was hoping for in addition to a good film - which it was.
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Gimmie 65 year old carla gugino any day..
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Mar 09, 2009 12:02:09 AM CDT
how about no more pg-13 horror movies?
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
jesus christ i get sorta intrested in a horror movie preview then the pg-13 just kills whatever intrest there was.
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Mar 09, 2009 12:02:16 AM CDT
how about no more pg-13 horror movies?
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
jesus christ i get sorta intrested in a horror movie preview then the pg-13 just kills whatever intrest there was.
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and i will pull a comedian move on carla gugino.
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Mar 09, 2009 12:07:09 AM CDT
Why did Snyder change The Comedian's birth year?
by bob loblaw law blog
First of all, I absolutely loved the film...But, while I was watching, I remember thinking that, in the comic series, Blake's grave says 1924-1985. In the movie, it says 1918-1985.Seems like a deliberate change, considering that everyone said Snyder had the graphic novel with him the entire time they were filming... but why change it?
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This is a slightly reworked review/response I had on another Watchmen posting...
First of all, let me say that I'm not a fanboy of Alan Moore in general or Watchmen, in particular. I think he is a great writer, very innovative with plot and narrative, of course, and that Watchmen is indeed a landmark in comic fiction, but the reverence thrust on him and his comic is slightly overdone. And all of that misguided reverence will surely infect this adaptation like a virus. But... I've seen it. On Tuesday, I was lucky enough to attend an advanced screening at Warner Brothers. Saturday afternoon I saw it again. And the second viewing was all that I needed to come to a conviction on whether, in fact, it is a great film quite apart from its comics forebearer...
As an audience member, I went in with a a clear mind, relatively free of expectation and that debilitating reverence for the comic. (I just wanted to see a film that considered the thematic subjects that I enjoyed from the comic; but also a movie made out of a comic I liked as entertainment.) And I am quite convinced that Zach Snyder has made the best possible adaptation of The Watchmen. Now, it is interesting to consider what Aronofsky might have done it with it. He's quite adept realizing psychologically damaged characters on screen and he's just as visually impressive as Snyder (see The Foundtain), but that's neither here nor there. As Gilliam said long ago, it should have been a miniseries. But WB wanted a movie, and so here we are...
Without getting too specific, let me address the film's characters, narrative and visual style (with some nods to the comic itself), relative to the review above... The review says that Veidt/Ozymandias is a cipher. Well, I seem to remember in the comic that he WAS indeed a cipher. He did not emote in the comic. I would go so far as to say Veidt was rather uninteresting as a character until the end where he tells his scientists of his vision quest. It was in that part that Ozymandias became something more than a mere caricature of a superhero. And Matthew Goode's performance sustains the esoteric mood (of those scenes in the comic) throughout the movie. He was reserved, collected and distant. Matthew Goode conveyed these qualities to a very high degree but also brought an almost sinister quality to Veidt's cold, distant veneer. He's not just 'there' as the review would have us believe. He is simply playing Veidt as he has to be played. The review also says Silk Spectre II is just 'there.' Riddle me this: how could she be anything other than what she was in the comic? She never wanted to be a superhero. It's in the comic. She's a normal girl thrust into an extraordinary position by the sheer force of personality of her mother. She seems out of place. She has very little depth character-wise because this was denied her by her mother's selfish motives. Malin Ackerman was fine in the role and on top of that, she looked impressive in the action scenes (which is more than can be said about most female action stars). You want to blame someone about Silk Spectre II, blame Moore... she's just simply not as instantly as rich a character, not as instantly dynamic a character as Rorschach or Dr. Manhattan... that is, until we realize the nature of her birth, which is put into perspective wonderfully by Dr. Manhattan. When he says, 'your mother loves a man she has every reason to hate, and of that union, of the thousand million children competing for fertilization, it was you, only you, that emerged. To distill so specific a form from that chaos of improbability, like turning air to gold!,' therein lies Laurie's depth. Ackerman inhabited the role Moore created and the performance works. Jackie Earle Hailey is pitch perfect as Rorschach. His voice and mannerisms, and--when his mask is removed--the pain written on his face, are as perfect as one could have imagined. Billy Crudup is great as Dr. Manhattan. Yes, some of the lip movements might be off, but it's nothing to get your panties in a bundle over. Practical makeup wouldn't have worked as well for the Doc. But his godliness and apathy are manifest, and I'll be damned if Crudup's voice doesn't sound perfect. As it stands, he glows visually and metaphysically. And Patick Wilson is perfect as Dan Dreiberg/Nite Owl. No complaints there either. He conveys the awkwardness, the quiet desperation of someone who is lost without the crutch of his alter ego. Jeffrey Dean Morgan became the Comedian. Maybe not as massive and as gruff as the comic version of the Comedian, but definitely a treat to behold on screen...
Now, to the narrative. Snyder maintains the political and psychological narrative threads; so it cannot be said that the material has been dumbed down for the modern viewer. It is arguably the most challenging superhero adaptation we will ever see. And because Moore wrote the comic as if it were a parallel universe/alternate history, the film adaptation doesn't need to be politically relevant to our times (though it just might be), and is thus free to simply be an interesting exploration of what might have been under different circumstances (if these people were in fact real).
Moving on... Snyder came up with some inventive ways of condensing the story, such as the beginning and the flashbacks. And as with the graphic novel, it is non-linear and therefore it does not pander to any mainstream need for linear storytelling. Snyder also fills in the gaps that exist between Gibbon's panels and Moore's words. The space that was left to the reader's imagination in the comic is herein rendered by the writers' and director's imaginations. Naturally, not everything could be included from the graphic novel, so our imaginations are left to fill in the gaps of the film. Pretty neat, huh? Kind of like how Moore emphasizes that comics allow the reader to fill in gaps--to imagine the events in between. The ending is different, as you all have heard by now, but it works. It would have been nice to see the squid, and thus see the team of artists and psychics creating the Lovecraftian monstrosity, but I just don't see how it could have been done at all considering the time constraints place on it by the studio and the impatience of audiences trained to watch movies that clock in under 2 hours (and unfamiliar with Lovecraftian monstrosities). But, I daresay, the ending is exceedingly elegant thought-provoking. Visually, the film is arresting--a beautiful, dark and violent vision that really isn't an exact replica of the comic. It takes the source material and creates visuals and sounds that only cinema could achieve. Again, it may not be Moore's vision, but it is a vision nonetheless and allows any fan of the comic to experience the story in a new and exciting way. -
Friendo's right. Anyone who writes "could of" or "would of" immediately renders their opinion moot from that point forward. You know who you are.
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TDK legitimized comic-book-films because it respected the original material, avoided campy humor, didn't glorify violence, gore, or sex, and STILL managed to become one of the highest grossing films. TDK had its problems, but it was a serious drama instead of a cool action flick.
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(without the *'s)
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yesterday and cussed me out for recommending it just texted me and said
"You know what, Watchman was pretty tight."...but for some reason he thinks that Rorshach is the son of Doc Manhattan...
he also LOVED the movie 10,000 BC. -
i cant believe you just threw your friend under the bus like that ;p
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That was the point. They are all selfish. Nite Owl is a hero for kicks and because he feels like a no one. Silk Spector II does it because of her mother. Dr. Manhattan had a accident and the government turned him into a hero. They don't do it too help people, they do it to feel better about themselves. The only true hero of the book is Rorschach and he is the crazy one. he is the least selfish of all of them. everyone else would rather walk away from what Ozy did. but not Rorschach he died doing the right thing and being a true hero.
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I doubt that TDK respected the original material. It was an idealised version of the material. It took the parts of the universe that it liked, and put them into a big ball. And they still cut out a significant character because he is unfilmable. I think Watchmen has done just that, except for the notion that there is so much less material to draw from. But that said, I don't think either film brings comic books from the fringes into the mainstream.
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$533,184,219. Pretty mainstream.
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1. No need to see in theatre. 2. Far too christ like story. (yeah I read the book's end). 3. Sequelitis.
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You can't look at the box office returns like you did last year. Given the state of our economy, people losing jobs and cutting back ... I don't think the weekly returns will be as high as they might otherwise be.
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Just saw it and liked it a lot. Rorschach was perfect and the Doc Manhattan origin portion was done very well. I was amazed at how closely the movie followed the novel sometimes using the actual dialogue. Ending was fine for me, squid would have evoked laughs from the audience for sure.
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Its my belief that 'average' (non-bat-fan) audiences responded to TDK more than they will respond to Watchmen. The reason isn't the story, dialogue, or characters; the reason is the directing. Too much flash for a story filled with substance.
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I don't exactly know why this is bugging me, but why do people think this song was unsuitable for the sex scene?Is it because people see the title and assume it's somehow a religious song?Have you actually listened to the lyrics? The entire song is about love. Not sappy, romantic "up where we belong" crap, but fiery, passionate, SEXUAL love, using religious language as a metaphor (example: "remember when I moved in you/and the holy dove was moving too/and every breath we drew was hallelujah").How can that NOT be appropriate for a sex scene? The coming-together (pun intended) of Dan and Laurie for the first time is a proper "hallelujah" moment, especially from Dan's perspective.The only possible reason I can think of why people don't like the use of that song is that it's TOO perfect a fit, lyrically and thematically, for what's happening on screen. If that's the case, though, that's just stupid. What would you prefer? Some random "cool" song? Dodgy saxophone music? Songs should only ever be used in movies if they match what is happening on screen, both in terms of mood and lyrical content, otherwise it's just a cheap cash-in.The only other reason I can think of is that people plain don't like the song. If that's the case, fair enough. Certainly I prefer the Jeff Buckley version, but that would have been inappropriate considering it was recorded in the 90s. Maybe it's the fact that The Arrogant Cunt Who Needs To Die Before He Fucks Up Music Forever (I refuse to type his name, but initials are S.C.) has ruined that song for the younger generation by letting one of his no-talent warblers massacre it...
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Robots will sell many many tickets, economic depression or not.
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i heard there was a secret chord
that david played and it pleased the lord
but you don't really care for music, do you
well it goes like this the fourth, the fifth
the minor fall and the major lift
the baffled king composing hallelujah
Beautiful poetry. Touching imagery. Not sexy. Not sexy. And... IT WAS USED IN SHREK. After I realized that, it became very hard to focus on Patri--- I mean Malin Ackerman. -
Mar 09, 2009 12:45:10 AM CDT
The nearly 3-hour running time is a factor in box office total..
by bob loblaw law blog
The longer the film, the less showings per night... the less money brought in, even if all the showings are sold out.
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Running time means less opportunities to screen, but a good movie manages to jump that hurdle. Titanic was OVER hours. The Dark Knight is only about 15 minutes shorter than Watchmen.
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my bad
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and I saw this movie and loved it. On the way to our car from the theater we heard two kids behind us saying how they thought the movie was a piece of shit. One of the kids was wearing a Dale Earnhardt t-shirt. I smashed out his teeth with a sledge hammer. Goog night.
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If you are bothered by the Hallelujah's use in shrek, it's also been used in: the west wing, house MD, third watch, without a trace, an NBC news story on the Virginia Tech shooting, the OC, ER, and half a dozen other places. It's usually used as a song about death, when if you listen to it, Watchmen may be the first time it's used in context. And despite your gay joke, I call into question your manhood if you couldn't focus on Malin Akerman naked.
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Pretty good, Im impressed. And as disgusted as thought of a Robocop remake makes me the guy who play Nightowl would make a perfect Alex J. Murphy.
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At least when sung by Leonard Cohen, and the whole "remember when I moved in you..." lyric.I think there's a reason why the DREAMWORKS folks picked the John Cale version (which fit the setting much better; Rufus Wainwright's similar version was used on the SHREK soundtrack) rather than Leonard Cohen's brooding, sensual take.Take a look at this article, which talks a bit about some of the versions of the song (Jeff Buckley even thought it was about sex...).http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7787355.stm
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Mar 09, 2009 1:05:33 AM CDT
Are you people fucking delusional? Fuck the running time.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
The thing went from 25 mill Friday, to 19 on Saturday, to 11 on Sunday. This thing has no fucking legs. Its clearly a product of hype. It won't top 80 mill. And what was the fucking budget again? Give me a break with your nonsense.
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Liked it a lot better than Dark Knight. Although it had a longer run time, it didn't feel as long due to better pacing. No disrespect to Heath Ledger, but his performance as the "Joker" was good but not Oscar worthy good. If he hadn't died tragically before the movie came out, he never would have been nominated. Jackie Earle Haley DESERVES an Oscar nod for his portrayal of Rorschach but won't get one because the Academy already awarded one "comic book" role. Watchmen was also a more faithful adaptation of the comics than Dark Knight even with the different ending. That is all. Good day, sir!
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just absolutely meh! I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it, the new BladeRunner? Fuck off!
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I don't really think that anymore. He's just louder.
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It doesn't matter what it makes. The point is it got made. It'll make all its money back eventually on DVDs and with the million director's cuts, just like Blade Runner did. And yes, I do think this is the new Blade Runner... it won't be appreciated for another decade, at least.
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But, we're talking about WATCHMEN's opening weekend here, not it's lifetime gross.
A little history:
TITANIC -- Opening weekend domestic gross on 2,674 screens (Dec 19–21, 1997): $28,638,131WATCHMEN -- Opening weekend domestic gross on 3,611 screens (March 6-8, 2009): $55,700,00 [estimate]Even adjusting for inflation (which would put TITANIC's opening weekend at around $38-40 million in 2009 dollars), WATCHMEN still wins for opening weekend gross.Now, I'm not arguing that WATCHMEN and TITANIC are in the same league in style/audience... because they're not.But, just looking at the idea that a 3-hour movie will earn less money because of fewer available screenings, WATCHMEN did quite well, considering it's an R-rated film. And, it sold out all of its IMAX showings too.Of course, THE DARK KNIGHT made $158 million it's first weekend, but it also played on 4,366 screens!!And, for the record, I think that WATCHMEN was a great film... but it won't have the legs that TDK had because it's not as appealing to the general public. -
I was in Barnes and Noble today, and I was looking at a table full of Watchmen merchandise, and some kid picked up the graphic novel and his mom said, "They made a comic out of that stupid movie already?" and the kid replied, "I know. It was so boring." I wish I'd made that up, but unfortunately it happened.
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Nope sorry, dont see it, unless it takes 5 different fuckin versions to get there. Maybe thats why the original Bladerunner was unappreciated? This was an average movie, get over it move on.
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a) Lets a wait for a couple of weeks before getting too excited or too worried.
b) Any quotes yet on worldwide release
c) Have complained a few times, but will complain again Warners I want a worldwide release, not in Japan till 28th March. -
Running time doesn't affect a movies gross.
Watchmen was ok, but its R rating will hurt it. But if Snyder made the movie Alan Moore wrote, it would have had a better shot. Good work with the number crunching mr baio. -
It's the old 2001 a space Odesssey. Both made by pretentuious a British doosh and an American. Both come from acclaimed books and make movies that turn their medium on their head -- 2001 for scifi films, Watchmen for comic book movies. Both are visual spectacles, but boring as hell for the most part. Both are incomprehensible to the mainstream audience. Both have crappy endings.
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C'mon, let's stop pretending that Blade Runner was great from the beginning. It wasn't.
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so how many versions will it take Zach to get this right
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I'm not going to start this off with some overblown blanket statement like 'everyone who thought this was awesome didn't really get the book', or 'the movie was sensationalistic and glossily violent in a way the comic wasn't' or even 'I think 4 slo-mo scenes in a row is too many', because I want to start this out on the right note.
but come on. the movie wasn't that great. it was long and very adult, (which for some people already earns it a nomination for 'movie i lost my jerkoff virginity to') so i forsee a self-fulfilling prophecy- it does terribly at the box office and horrible little nerds who thought 300 wasn't a misogynistic piece of shit celebrate its 'misunderstood cult status'. the action was so saturated with overkill that after the only disastrously kung-fu rape scene ever and assassin's bullets flying through tendons and brains in slo-motion, what was a shocking dismemberment sequence in the big figure/prison scene comes off as just another bloody thing that i have to sit through. i LIKE violence, and for me to think that about any fat fuck getting his hands chopped off is downright criminal. which is pretty much what i have to say for the rest of it too. and the little glints of genius we saw was just alan moore's gold shining through some heavy unaware-of-subtext shit zack snyder piled over it.
oh, and passe or not, I don't like slow motion. just because pictures in the comic don't move and that's sort of similar to something that moves REAAALLY SLOWLY doesn't make it a clever translation. all you assholes that are trying to balance the 'he did that to streamline it and make it more acceptable to 2008 audiences that are, apparently, fucking idiots' factor against the 'god bless zack for creating something so anti-hollywood, so in your face, so intelligent and complex' bullshit, get a life. true artistic genius, like you claim this film is supposed to be, does not compromise. yeah, ha ha, like rorschach. -
Thank "Star Wars" for that.
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Just wait for the directors cut. Mach 5 is a unicorn voiced by Edward james Olmos
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A kid? Saw it with his mom? What was the stupid bitch thinking? It's an R RATED FILM.
There were lots of movies I didn't get when I was a kid, either. I didn't know "Planet of the Apes" was a book first when I was 10. -
Except Speed Racer's first cut was perfect!
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Yeah... it was kinda disturbing.
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After 1st viewing that word sums up my initial reaction. There were alot of great things about this movie, in particular its ambition. But it seemed like it tried to touch on too many subjects and themes. Its identity seemed to be lost in the source material. It did not flow like a film should. That being said, I fear it will not connect with the average moviegoer, which is a shame. I can appreciate and see the depth of detail and the amount of work that went into this production. The geeks should be satisfied. They got their movie. The rest of the world? It remains to be seen
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Most of the people that were IN the damn thing hate it.
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The Matrix? Blade runenr is just cool.. that's all there is to it. It's the Rebel Without a Cause of Sci-Fi films..
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thats a whole 'nuther talkback.
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Im off to watch Blade Runner
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I can not believe there are even users saying this movie was good. It was a complete waiste of my time i almost fell asleep an hour into the movie just because nothing was going on. Almost a 3 hour movie and maybe 6 or 7 fighting scenes that lasted at most 2 min. It was a complete FAILURE. WATCHMEN sucks. And I don't know about the other viewers but i didnt go to the movie to see a blue guy's wang 24/7
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http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20090306
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Sorry, SongOfTheSausage... I just really found that misspelling of the word "douche" to be particularly amusing.
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Just happens to be one of my many quirks.. I think it's dooshy to spell it properly.. in fact I think whomever invented the spelling of the word "douche" was a doosh!
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but that's overrated, too.
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I think you have a valid point there! :)
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The only problems I have are with the editing:
1. Many scenes that should have played in harmony were instead strung one after another, losing a lot of Moore's poetry,
2. The people of New York were pulled out of the film.
3. Rorschach's story was cut down to being worthless.
4. Each chapter needed to be given its proper title, and been each about the same length, rather than lengthening some and shortening others.
5. Some fantastic lines—"he doesn't care HOW people dress," "excuse me, Rorschach, I'm informing Laurie five minutes ago," and more—were cut.
6. More cities needed to be shown being blown up.
All the above problems COULD be solved in the upcoming director's cut, so I'll withhold final judgement.
I will say I didn't mind the new ending, although it certainly doesn't have the effect of the original ending. We really need to see more dead bodies, more blood, more guts. We need Laurie sobbing at all the death and destruction. Without all that, we don't really have a movie.
Oh, and why was Mr. Metropolis cut from the film? Putting Veidt in the position of leading the failed Crimebusters meeting is patently absurd. He would never have done something so insipidly stupid. -
Stop it. No one reads the giant paragraphs with no indentations. Start your own website for fucks sake if you want to post your personal reviews. Seriously, who reads those things?
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Mar 09, 2009 2:19:33 AM CDT
wasnt speed racer about insider trading?
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
oh boy, sounds just like the cartoon!
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Mar 09, 2009 2:25:59 AM CDT
Yes. DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD does deserve to get beaten and raped
by sicuv uyall
What a fuckin DOUCHEBAG.
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Saw the twice Bladerunner that is. It's not that damn good. Act like its the 2nd coming of Transformers. (j/k about that Transformers part. but can you guys let the Blade Runner thing go.
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Yeah all that flash really annoyed me!! Hey, as a geek, don't try to speak for normal, non-comic fanatic people who watch movies just to be entertained. You will never understand normal people.
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Mar 09, 2009 2:42:39 AM CDT
What about the murder of Nite Owl? And the sex scene was waaaaaa
by radioflyer
Isn't that a HUGE HUGE HUGE plot point in the book? Keeping that out seemed a big mistake.
The sex scene in Archie after the fire was just a wee-bit over the top, dontcha think? I mean, when the flamethrower goes you might as well cut away to some stock footage of a train going in and out of a tunnel.
Overall, thought the movie was fantastic, though. Especially enjoyed watching families who went in expecting Spider-Man 4 get all weird.
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An Alabaska afternoon and the Thames was overflowing like that of a virginal teens vagoo sans the doctrine of Millway 1979, and yet ovaled wagon wheels make not ovaltine when the moon swings nie and nary of a swoon house horse doubloons. Ha! says i to a pontificating professor of profound prophecy undone preposterously and proudly prince!
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-- about how violent this movie is. Just looking over the comic again -- Christ, Dan rips through the cartilage of a Tops nose and Laurie breaks one's arm and yanks another's balls. There's a lot of blood in those panels. Snyder even softened the violence in certain scenes: The assassin's attack on Adrien for one, Rorschach as a child blinding the bully, etc. I think some of you are just looking to fault Snyder for things he isn't doing.
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that thinks the violence in the film is good, but seeing John's penis makes it somehow like porn. People are so dumb, I just don't get it. Why are people so weirded out by the human anatomy, but have no problem seeing a man's head cleavered repeatedly? Again, those Yahoo viewer comments are a fucking doozy, with everyone calling the film "blue man porn" and "superhero porn."
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"No one reads the giant paragraphs with no indentions..." So true.
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While I find your name completely sophomoric and unsophisticated, I am rather to drawn to it. Kudos.
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so in three days the movie makes about 90 mil it will not top 300, but will turn a respectable profit and most likely ny and la will see the release of the extended cut in theaters come july
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Mar 09, 2009 3:19:54 AM CDT
fuck the opening credits were genius
by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell
just watched them again on a bootleg...awesome. as was rorscrachs final scene...haley owned
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perhaps now it could be considered for a Showtime series of some sort. though, now the Great and Powerful Turtle will look like a Nite Owl II ripoff...and Fortunato like a pimped-out Dr. Manhattan...
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Writes great comics, but really.
"Oh, me? No, I'll never watch a film based on my work. Money? Give it all to Dave Gibbons. I'm rich enough as it is, and rejecting money makes it look like I've got artistic integrity.
Did I mention I'm a comic book writer?
Oh, um, the other screen adaptations that made me a killing? Um...well I didn't KNOW they were going to be bad. Otherwise I would've rejected the money. Yeah....yeah, that's it.
I grow a long beard, sit in my secluded house and sip a cup of coffee and wax philosophic in the mirror.
Did I mention I'm a COMIC BOOK writer?
I have no need for money. It just appears in my lap when I write. I'd do it for free! Except that I don't. I regard my works as high art, watch EVERY movie adaptation of my books in disguise, and then tell the fans I'm above watching my work come to life on the screen. And I'm quite sure history will validate me as an astonishing, unforgettable literary figure.I write comic books." -
Except for female admirers of mine, when they are kneeling before my python, which is known to have lethal accuracy.
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Absolutely flamed the film on his movie blog with Simon Mayo (a DJ).Listening closely, his dislike for Zach Snyder clearly coloured his response to the film. He labelled it portentous and flabby - maybe he was looking in a mirror. I mean, honestly, he couldn't stop mentioning his new doctorate: even factoring in irony and sarcasm from Mayo he doesn't 'alf come across as a pretentious pillock. However, I always have a problem with self-congratulatory social commentators.Anyhow, I went to a late night Sunday showing and the cinema was full so at least Warners gets its biggish opening weekend...and who gives a shit because the comic book is still the shit.
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Fuckin' amateurs
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Mar 09, 2009 4:02:32 AM CDT
I think the film works WAY better than the book on a gut-level
by chuck_chuckwalla
As much as I love the comic/graphic novel, I have to say that this film kicks it's ass. Sue me. The ending makes more sense without the squid. The fight scenes are gut-wrenchingly visceral — affecting a viewer on a much deeper level than the static drawings of a comic book. It's a lot to take in at one viewing, I'll admit. But that aside, I think Snyder hit the right beats and I can't think of much else I would have done different for a theatrical release. And I don't understand why the gal that played Silk Spectre II didn't work for some people. That's EXACTLY the SAME fucked-up character in the book. And one more thing: I have a friend who told me he though it was "a good try, but it's not Dark Knight." Well, it's not Dark Knight, God damn it, it's Watchmen. Dark Knight was an original story — not based on a work that's been hailed as an important achievement in comics over the past two decades. It's ridiculous to compare the two. Kudos to you Snyder, you fought and dared to be as true to the source material as you could and added so much more to it. It's one of the best of the decade as I see it.
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The polarization of the audience for this film I find quite overwhelming. Makes me think this film is truly more successful than some people may give it credit for. As a film, Watchmen IMO, is a little ahead of it's time. The R-rated aspects to the film were definitely my favorite parts. Sure there have been R-rated comic book movies before. Most are r-rated for violence and not for subject matter. I thought Malin Akerman's performance was totally audacious. That was definitely the first time I've seen anything in a Superhero movie that was reminding me of Wild Orchid, Basic Instinct, 9 & 1/2 weeks, or the film adaptation of J.G. Ballard's Crash. Most everyone seems able to agree that the film, love it or hate it, does stay faithful to the source material. Seldom is a film as close to the original material as was Sin City or A Clockwork Orange. Those are the only 2 movies I've ever known to be approx. %98 accurate to their literary source. I thought the soundtrack was awesome. Like everything else in the film, the soundtrack was over the top. The production design had incredible attention to detail. I came away from the film wanting more, despite having read the book and knowing the story was over. Basically I feel I can separate in my mind the book and the movie. And I love both. As a film I can understand where some viewers are going to get lost in how over the top and incredibly non-conventional it is. For the initiated I say, What's the big gripe? Not serious enough for you? Why so serious? Watchmen is liable to be the only DC comics movie that you won't see a toy line getting hyped at Wal-Mart for. Watchmen the movie, overall, tended to remind me of a movie like Brazil. Both films had a lot to say once you can decode it from the intense imagery. Also I have to add. When Alan Moore wrote the Watchmen, wasn't his intent to create something of a satire of Costumed superheroes?
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If you think that Alan Moore cashed checks on V For Vendetta or "LXG" or Constantine, then you're a fucking idiot. Love him or hate him or think he's a pretentious dick (I do think he's a pretentious dick), he's ALWAYS been forward about the fact that he passes his royalties on to the artists. "Watchmen" the movie is nothing new in that regard.
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I liked it. Not enough Rorscach.
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Kermode was right about everything he said regarding Watchmen. Get over it, Snyder is a walking Xbox, not a storyteller.
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How can he be right?What a stupid, stupid thing to write: "Kermode was right about everything...". Just because you agree with him doesn't make him right.Your sort of mindless kowtowing is so very sad. Being right happens very rarely and certainly doesn't happen in something as subjective as reviewing.I criticsied Kermode because, if you listen closely, a keen level of bias is prevalent in his 'review'. I didn't claim to be right. Please, please do try to develop your own theories rather than sucking on the artistic teet...
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is the stupidest analogy yet. How about Snyder being an unseasoned, and possibly undisciplined craftsman trying to expand his repertoire? I'm not saying he's Aronofsky but, Jesus how about some semblance of objectivity? Still no intelligent alternatives on how to incorporate complex literary and philosophical ideas into a expensive, commercial. two hour and forty-one minute Hollywood movie, eh? Any examples to suggest? Nah. Let's just stick with clumsy Xbox analogies. Any mangled staging? Any 180° line crossing? Was it unclear what was happening onscreen? Funny how the staging of the Comedian's death told the story clearly, dramatically and for my money, effectively. Also,it sets the tone of the movie and some of it's themes, and gives stylistic clues to the performances. Oh wait, that would require someone to look closely at the screen with some emotional distance from the book; or attempt to watch the movie with objectivity to see how Snyder was, uh, telling multiple stories inside the opening scene and dramatizing exposition for the audience as efficiently as possible.
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LOL. You don't like Leonard Cohen. I guess thats why you're a useless faggot.
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...At least Snyder has three good films under his belt. Aronofsky has got a hell of a reel should he ever want a job directing commercials though. Plus he's got Clint Mansell. No Clint Mansell means you have to crib old Glass scores.
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...to trash Snyders supposedly lame musical choices, while actually reinforcing their musical ignorance.
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i'm sorry, but this movie blew ass. i was so bored i kept shifting around in my seat in anticipation of it being over. in fact, i know the movie was only 2h 43m, but it just DRAGGGED out for what seemed like 6 hours! what a beat down of a movie. Utter lameness and boring-ness.
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Mar 09, 2009 6:20:21 AM CDT
"But it's still not a movie that average people want to watch fo
by whinynegativebitch
What, it accidently became the second most popular film of all time?
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or downbeat? Didn't care about the characters? Fair enough.
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Anything about the movie that worked for you, or was it too character focused and deliberate? Was the pacing the problem or the characters? Or both? Any performance engage you?
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...a certain degree of resentment that Zach Snyder did such a good job of filming Moore's 'unfilmable' comic book? My goodness, are people so jaded?There are some real snobs on this talkback, I suspect...snobs who wanted the credibiluity that apparently comes from a Gilliam, or a Greengrass or an Aronofsky. It really does burn some talkbackers here that their beloved comic book was translated onto the screen by such a young Turk as Snyder. I guess it is impossible to separate prejudice from perception.
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Gambit has his cajun accent in Wolverine!!! Fanboys can now jerkoff!!!!!
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The movie was fucking GREAT! I hate to admit it but Kevin Smith was right... Talkbackers on AICN hate EVERYTHING. SO sad.
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Not bad. Will almost certainly make its budget back domestically. Probably do at least $150 million internationally, if not significantly more.Be easier to see in the next few weeks, but I'm guessing it'll do between $350 and $400 million.
So, it ain't Titanic, but that'll do, Zach. That'll do. -
...saw it last night and wasn't pumped up to see it again immediately, which is what happened me last year with The Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing the two, but I've since seen TDK about 7 times and, if given a choice right now, would want to watch it again before Watchmen.
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Mar 09, 2009 7:13:11 AM CDT
Bigger opening than Batman Begins or Superman Returns...
by whinynegativebitch
...Snyder seems to get lucky at somehow opening films huge when they really shouldn't. Shit, at least it means we get Alice In Wonderland With Guns next.
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Saw it Saturday afternoon with a 4 beer buzz going on. First off, i am a huge fan of the comic. it's epic, we can all agree on that.
Initially after i left the theater i wasn't too keen on the movie. the various plot points that are changed, characters being placed where they werent in the comic (the silk specter rape scene and when dr manhattan kills rorschach), and of course the ending. The more i think about it the more i feel i need to take this movie in a 2nd time. It felt a bit hollow and rushed, but then again what movie adaptation of a book doesn't?
That being said - this movie nailed the visual style. i was floored to see some of my favorite key scenes from the book fleshed out and in live action. The highlight of this movie for me was how spot on each character looked compared to the character in the book - sure there were some variations in the costumes and such, but each character looked DEAD ON for whom they were suppost to be playing. I've got some real high hopes now for the director's cut. The theatrical cut of the movie certainly felt like it had space for bits of the story to expand, so really i think i will reserve final judgment for that cut of the movie. -
That about sums it up for me. I thought the movie was fantastic and even likede it slightly more than the GN it was based on. But Voyageur was able to put into writing what i was thinking. Cheers my friend!
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He was on a mission to flame this film. He was trying to be cool and smart as usual and it was pathetic. The opening credits of Watchmen alone is better than 99 perscent of movies out there. This movie was a damn trimph. Thank you very much mister Snyder. I saw this movie on friday here in Norway and still can't stop thinking about it because there were so much cool, smart and fun shit going on. I give this movie 9 out of 10.
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and I have to say that it was pretty ok. nothing to fancy, nothing too rough...
I do feel bad for the "dad" I saw in line with his 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter. he seriously must have been under the impression that this was just a super hero movie...YIKES!! -
Mar 09, 2009 7:44:59 AM CDT
KITTY GENOVESE <---missing link of The Watchmen Feature film?
by deanmail
I just watched the Watchmen motion comic and it made me realise what I felt was missing from the film, when I first read the comic Walter Kovaks revealed one of the incidents that turned him into what he was had been the rape and murder of a young woman while neighbours looked on and did nothing, I was shocked to find this was based on a real world event with Kitty Genovese, that kind of basis in an ugly reality kind of made me understand why there was a need for vigilantes , people to watch over us or...Watchmen and went a long way towards the graphic novel being alot more than any other comic book as it was anchored in a very harsh and ugly reality. It may have been legal reasons that kept Kitty Genovese being mentioned in the film and how the black and white dress that Walter made for her eventually became his "face" but replacing that origins story of Rorshach with him cutting into a kidnappers head with an axe was like taking out a fundamental of the story and why there are Watchmen (translated from the word "vigilante") like Rorshac in the first place. I did enjoy the film on the whole but I will be holding out for the most unedited version fo the film on DVD or blu ray (hopefully included Under The Hood documentary) as a story like watchmen works best when everything is told in its entirety like in The Watchmen Motion Comic.
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how can you hate something that is seriously a near shot for shot, word for word adaptation. I went with 3 friends, 1 guy, 2 girls, none had read the book. They all loved it.
fuck its too early to argue. Eagerly awaiting the directors cut. Count me as a pleased fan. -
meant to say....legal reasons that kept Kitty Genovese FROM being mentioned in the film
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I imagine that will drop as time wears on, but the overall consensus seem to be positive. Zack Snyder has filmed the "unfilmable" and triumphed. Alan Moore can officially shut the fuck up now.
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So I went home and just blue myself.
That said, why does Ozmandias say, "Forgive me, Carol" Right before he blasts Bubastis? They changed the line from the book.
That scene was one of the film missteps. The horrible foreshadowing to the trap he built to the luring of Dr. Manhatten into it. Should have left it a surprise to the audience, as well.
I felt like they missed the tone of the "birth of Rorschach" as well. Something about the meat cleaver missed the calm intensity of the original. He seemed to care too much, instead of the broken and dead inside person he had become.
And, better or worse, the ending should have remained intact. I'know things have to be cut for time, but I'm just not sure if I'm okay with "Hey, you know your masterpiece is good and all, but, uh, let me show you how it really should have ended. Cause I'm Zack Snyder and I'm the mayor of Albuquerque." -
Where did I say I didn't like Cohen? All I said was that I can't recall ever hearing that song before (although since I've seen Shrek I must've just didn't remember it)
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I loved it.
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If you hadn't read the comic book, you don't get the reasons behind her death, which I think was important for Shack.
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I saw the movie Friday night in IMAX, and I enjoyed it. I first read the novel about 10 years ago, and have read it damn near 10 times since, so I had a lot of stake in the film. Now, it obviously couldn't be everything that the novel is and what fans wanted out of it, but I really think Snyder did a hell of a job translating it to the screen. The fact that he could take such a dense and intricate story and fit it into a 163 minute film is impressive in itself.
I'm ok with the ending as well, because I think that the squid would not have been as effective in a movie. It would have come across as campy. One of the rewrites that did bother me, though, was the fact that Laurie delivered the line "Nothing ever ends." This is one of my favorite lines from the book, and I love that its Jon that delivers it to Adrian. Even though Jon goes along with Veidt's plan, his last lines in the book are delivered to Adrian, and it shakes the concept that his plan worked. Instead of truly saving the world, Adrian is left wondering if he only just prolonged the inevitable. To me, that was the most fitting justice that the cocky bastard could suffer, since the revelation of his plan would doom the world at a much quicker pace.
Still, I thought that the movie was a fantastic achievement, and I'm looking forward to seeing it again this weekend. -
I agree, this scene should have been built up more, but perhaps it was trimmed for running time. Maybe we'll get a more developed version in the extended cut.
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I wish a million ghost riders on you. You don't deserve fine films made from comic books. May you be cursed with Spawn films for the rest of your life. The rest of us will give Watchmen the kudos it deserves.
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I think Ozy said "forgive me, girl" or maybe "forgive me, old girl". Not carol.
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Is going to be godly. It can't come soon enough. To those who criticize the music cues.I guarantee you on a second viewing they make a lot more sense. Snyder is evoking very specific associations using those songs. Yes ride of the valkyries is meant to be "cliched" because in order to flashback to Vietnam and let the audience instantly know where they are its the easiest way to make that transition. The music is being used purposefully and quite perfectly I may add. Putting all along the watchtower right at the beginning of the "two riders were approaching" chapter is inspired. Snyder gets the GN more than most people here.
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hahahaha, as a practicing and active member of the gays, I laughed my fucking head off at the folder on Veidt's desktop labeled "Boys".
Otherwise, surprisingly well done. -
...Since liking Cohen and having never heard this song is the equivilant of liking Bob Dylan yet having never heard The Times They Are A Changin'. It's the John Cale version in Shrek, by the way. The only musical choice, at all, in this film that was iffy was using a My Chemical Romance cover of a Bob Dylan song for the closing credits. Again, a shitty compromise to studio marketing, but considering how bad it could have turned out, it was okay.
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To not say why the mask is important is a real misstep. Not only that it was supposed to be Kitty Genovese's, but the reason Rorschach was drawn to it. "Black and white, never mixing, never gray. Very beautiful." And they really butchered Rorschach's nihilistic monologue to the psychiatrist. It reveals that Rorschach sees the world as an inkblot. A suffocatingly black smudge without meaning that you have to scrawl your own moral design on. I just think the whole speech he gives while he remembers watching the house burn reveals how intelligent Rorschach is, rather than just how crazy. You really get his whole world view. It's ironic that in the comic he felt like the most developed character but in the movie he felt to me like the least developed. Even though Jackie Earle Haley was perfect. Also, why did Veidt speak normally sometimes and mumble in German others?
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I got the impression that it was supposed to be an alternate version of the scene from Apocalypse Now with Dr. Manhattan.
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Mar 09, 2009 8:40:05 AM CDT
WhinyNegativeBitch: But hate and like aren't the only two option
by chrth
(I know, I know, AICN Talkback seems to prove the opposite) There also exists the option of simply not being familiar with an artist/work. If I've never seen or listened to Rent, does that mean I hate Rent?
And I am chagrined to admit that I did not know All Along the Watchtower until it showed up in BSG (although I did remember the quote in Watchmen) even though I had a casual (which is what I think is key) interest in both Dylan and Hendrix. Sometimes details are missed when you're not paying attention. -
Zach Snyder: Am I going to sit at my desk and rip your fucking film to shreds just because your not the director I had in mind? Then why the fuck are you flaming my film? Ah-da-da-dah, like this on your geeky fanboy talkback. What the fuck is it with you? What don't you fucking understand? You got any fucking idea about, hey, it's fucking distracting having some wanker typing up their pathetic whiney penny's worth? Give me a fucking answer! What don't you get about it?AICN whiner: It wasn't the film I envisioned in my bedroom.Snyder: Ohhhhh, goooood for you. And how was it? I hope it was fucking good, because it's useless now, isn't it?
AICN whiner: You said it. I thought it was useless too…Snyder: Fuck's sake man, you're amateur. Moore, you got fucking something to say to this prick?Alan Moore: I don't want my name mentioned. Speak to Gibbons.Snyder: Well, somebody should be fucking watching and keeping an eye on these fuckign talkbackers.Moore: No comment.Snyder: It's the second time that they don't give a fuck about what is going on with my adaptations. First it was 300…I'm trying to fucking do a film here, and I am going "Why the fuck are AICN talkbackers flaming me on their website? Why do they hate me so much?" Do you understand my mind is not on the six hour director's full length unrated cut if you're doing that?AICN whiners: I absolutely refuse to apologise. I'm not sorry, I love to chew on any hand that feeds me.Snyder: Stay off my next fucking movie man. For fuck's sake. Alright, let's go again with a 300 sequel.Moore: Just stay away from Lost Girls.Snyder: Let's not take a fucking stay away from Lost Girls, let's go again. Bring me that fucking script. Somebody call Hayter. I'm going to fucking kick your fucking ass if you don't shut up for a second! All right? I'm going to go...Do you want me to fucking go trash your another one of your beloved comic book properties?
Do you want me to fucking trash 'em? Then why are you trashing my movie?AICN whiner: I'm trashing your movie because I'm a snob and nothing you could have done would have been good enough. You're Zach fucking Snyder, fer chrisssakes…don't you get that? It's not just the movie it's you as well!Man I miss the Bale rant node.
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All day long with Doc in Nam. I thought it was a pretty obvious cliche nod. The original was a cliche of man-made violence from a point of superiority. Snyder did the exact same thing taken to the most absurd extreme using mangod violence on human beings. If you saw AN and dug it, I thought for sure everyone would get and enjoy the meaning. Ah well...
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this movie truly was something special. There was so much in this movie that you're just not supposed to do in a big budget movie. This movie had balls and did not play it safe, and for that I thank you mister Snyder.
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It is a nearly 3 hour R rated, non-sequel and it made $55 its first weekend..that sucks. And it is not even the highest grossing opening for an R rated movie..ever. It's only the fifth highest opening one in the history of cinema...so clearly it underperformed and is a big disappointment. And it isn't going to make more money than Titanic or TDK, so clearly it is a total failure. And don't try to spin it some other way...
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If Doc Manhattan was going around blowing up the VC, why the frak were there US Forces on the ground? Just because you have a giant blue god on your side doesn't mean your soldiers can't be killed. Frakkin' Nixon.
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Is the mark of a quality film its bank or is it the product? If it's the amount of money it brings in, it seems like some pretty shitty movies should be at the top of your personal hitlist...
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But it's so hard to tell anymore. Didn't it grab the biggest Imax opening, anyway?
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Thank you
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Never read the comic, movie was first exposure to story. Loved it.
But, one thing vexes me aplenty. Do the Watchmen (or even the Minutemen) have any kind of special powers? If they're just normal humans, then what in the hell makes them more effective at fighting crime single-handedly than a bunch of cops with guns? (And it also makes their choice to dress in costumes seem rather ... well, moronic.
But I heard them referred to as "mutants" at one point. Is there more of a backstory to what makes these individuals so special in the art of hand-to-hand combat? Ozymandius caught a freakin' bullet, for crap's sake, and Rorshack certainly seemed capable of some superhuman feats.
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Everyone else is just highly trained and motivated. No different than Batman.
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Maybe i missed this in the film, but did they ever say exactly what the comedian saw/read/heard that clued him in on Ozy's plan? It sure as hell wasn't an island
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Ozymandias is supposedly the world's smartest man/perfect being who is somehow able to catch a bullet. None of the others have anything close to powers, despite how they were portrayed in the movie.
As for them dressing in costumes despite having no powers, this trend was started back in the Golden Age of comics during World War II. There were a ton of costumed heroes at that time, many of them without powers, such as that wacky Batman fellow who only relied on gadgets. I wonder whatever happened to him?
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Both GR and Watchmen are lousy adaptations of their source material - a bad comic book movie is still a bad comic book movie. Just because Watchmen has R-rated sex and gore doesn't make it 'adult' or mature. Synder's take on Watchmen is strictly adolescent, wallowing in violence but fumbling human emotion and thematic complexity. And even if Synder's Watchmen were half-way good, what would be the point? Did the world really need a half-way good Watchmen movie to exist when the book is readily available? Is it just to cater to people so illiterate they can't be bothered to read a comic book? A dumbed-down version of Watchmen is hardly cause for celebration. And by the way, the comic had balls - breaking the expectations of the medium. Synder's Watchmen has no more balls than Crank, Rambo, Punisher: War Zone, or any other R-rated blood bath.
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on Adrian for the government. He must've found one of the files Adrian conveniently left around.
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I haven't read the graphic novel, but that being said, I think the filmmakers tried so hard to please fans of the comic that it hurt the film. It was a no-win scenario for them. The movie ended up being bloated and boring rather than tense and fast-paced. Had they cut out much of the meandering and pandering to fans of the comic, focused on the story (and hiring good actors), it could have been so so so much better. In the end I felt it was very much like SKY CAPTAIN. An interesting premise, great setting, creative universe, and yet flacid and limp due to its bloat. What works as a comic doesn't necessarily work on film. And like I said, it was a no-win scenario here. Please the comic fans or the mainstream fans? They went for the comic fans and in that sense it was a success, I guess, but the film is so so deeply flawed. Creative, imaginitive, moody and interesting, yes, but also boring and lacking in story and character motivation. I'm not sure how it could have been fixed, except for editing out the bloat, but that would piss a whole lot of you off to no end. Anyway, I think its box office take will drop off substantially this coming weekend. Anyway, peace. OH - BTW - how is it that those of us new to this story can watch the film and not be entirely sure if the "heroes" actually have superpowers or not? Clearly they possessed superior strength and non-human agility and speed, and yet Manhattan was the only one with superpowers? Did I miss something huge here, or is it a incredibly huge leap of faith to accept this? Try to be kind in your responses, thanks. Timmer33
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I thought the changed ending worked just fine. But what I don't understand is why certain things that worked in the comic, and could have been very easily copied for the movie, were changed? Why did they give the "nothing ever ends" line to Silk Spectre instead of Dr. Manhattan? Why did they take out the conversation about Adrian catching the bullet and instead throw it into Rorshack's journal? Why did they have Rorshack use a cleaver instead of burning the guy alive? And why did they just have a big empty crater after the explosion instea of streets full of dead bodies. I think it is clear that nobody shied away from blood and violece when making this movie, yet the climax is oddly empty and hollow. These were all examples of little things that didn't need to be changed, and could have easily been filmed, but they were changed anyway. And I couldn't help but feel they had LESS impact than the movie version.
Other than that, it was great to watch. I think some of the "fan" complaints were just fanboy whining. The lengthy exposition with Ozymandias is actually SHORTER than the explaining in the comic. Seriously...the comic dedicated like the whole 11th issue to explaining the plot. Also, I heard someone complain about the big "reveal" on Mars and how a certain comedian flashback isn't shown until that moment. Yet in the comic that flashback was only about a PAGE before the realization. Hearing some people complain, you'd think it was way earlier. Also, some people complained about the superhero fights, like the one that opens the movie. Yet the comic also points out that the detectives think the only possible explanation for the murder is TWO people attacked blake and threw him out the window. THey didn't think only one person could do the job. So clearly they are stronger than their small, nerdy appearances reveal in the comic. -
The movies states the comedian was keeping tabs on ALL of them. He was a mole for the government to ensure the masks really were staying retired.
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was awesome! probably my favorite aspect of the movie was his origin story, Mars, Janey, etc. with Rorschach and Comedian a close 2nd/3rd.
Manhattan is WAY more creepy/strange in the movie than in the comic and i love the way he is realized. Crudup's dispassionate voice was perfect for a 'man' losing touch with his former humanity.
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please someone tell me this is not going to be an 'obvious underscore hit parade' of non stop music video cues..because if so, then it must blow huge chunks because i revile any movie that does that..
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The movies explains right at the start why the heroes started dressing in costumes. The first night owl explained that criminals were wearing masks during crimes to hide their identity, making it harder to prove they were guilty if not directly caught. So a few cops decided if it works for criminals, why not for the good guys, and they started wearing masks and taking the law into their own hands.
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The placement of the music is rather inspired. We're not used to it so its a little jarring at first. But it makes sense and snyder has made a film for the long term. Its going to make more sense as time goes on why he made the decisions he did. Right now the best we can do is prepare to love this film more and more as time goes on. I can't wait to see it a third time.
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In the future..FUCK THE FANS...FUCK THE SOURCE MATERIAL..and FUCK BEING FAITHFUL TO THE SOURCE. Enjoy the 20 years of garbage cinema your about to get.
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sooo....the next 20 will be like the last 20 right?
Quit with the fucking whining. The movie in your head is now the unfilmable. -
And figure... AT LEAST ...3 times, for me. Then I'll purchase the blu-ray. --Make it happen, WB!!!
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I liked it. That is all.
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Some douche behind me brought a couple of preteens. And that was to a 9:00 showing on a Sunday night. The window even had a sign saying that Watchmen had graphic violence, graphic sex, and was an adult movie. What fucking lousy parents.
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I hope you're being sarcastic - would you say Goodfellas 'blows chunks'? How about Trainspotting?
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Should go live with Alan Moore in his goddamned hippy commune, because no movie would have pleased them. Malin Ackerman was perfectly fine, and so was everyone else. Matt Goode's physical presence was not exactly right, but it didn't detract. You fat fucks wouldn't be happy unless every fucking frame was on camera. This was as perfect as it could get, and Snyder will rise!
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...Nuked the fridge :)
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The movie made more in 30 seconds than you will make in YOUR ENTIRE LIFETIME. So......get fucked.
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ITS AN ADAPTATION YOU STUPID FUCK!!!! ITS NOT AN EXACT COPY OF THE GRAPHIC NOVEL!! TWO DIFFERENT MEDIUMS!!! THEY CANNOT LINE UP PERFECTLY!!! YOU'RE SO FUCKING STUPID!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
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The Dark Knight and Batman begins have fight scenes more like ones in Watchmen. I dont need the overly powered knock backs and superhuman strength shit, but the way they were filmed was amazing. Fuck Nolan and his up close and personal shakey cam bullshit fights.
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My wife thought the song was a perfect fit for that scene. I, on the other hand, felt it was overstating the obvious. However, considering what they were trying to convey,...I actually cannot think of a "perfect" fit. I loved the BLADE RUNNER influenced music-scoring...but that scene would require MORE (to get the point across), for what they were going for. So, in the end, it was a wise choice, after all. Great job, Zack.
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I have a friend that does KFM (the style used in the movies) and he is pissed because the style is really brutal, (just to fuck a guy up) fighting method. AND YOU CANT SEE SHIT.
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I loved the movie Sauch. I was referring to the people who don't like watchmen.
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When Spectre finds out Comedian is her father and when Rorschach is killed. And when Manhattan give the "miracle" speech I wanted to give the Earth a big giant hug. What a brilliant delivery.
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The music choice for Dr. M blowing up the Vietcong was HORRIBLE. It made people in the theater laugh, which i dont think was the right reaction. Someone also laughed with Molloch said his line about having the kind of cancer you die from....that guy was a fag
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and doesnt translate on the intertubes.
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if thats the case, than it was a poor choice to use in the film. No ones going to know that the style was used just because it fucks dudes up....id rather go "cool fight scene!"
visuals are everything in a fight scene -
Served quite a few purposes. 1)When you flashback to Vietnam you could lose your audience. The music instantly tells them where they are and whats happening. 2)The music is cliched for that time period and considering Watchmen is an alternate history the music works as both satire and for the reason stated above.
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If you don't know about/understand the cinematic purpose behind using 'Flight of the Valkyries' for DM in Nam, you are sort of clueless as per quality cinema. Sorry...
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Like the book i decided to give this one a second go to see if i'd like it better.
There are scenes i enjoyed and no one can argue that this isn't entertaining but it's lack of heart shines through the brightest especially on second viewing.
The last 20 minutes are so dreadful, not just because there isn't a squid although that does help.
Also because of how rushed and shortened it feels. Veidt's hideout is only two small sound stages the are too grey and incredibly dull.
Niteowl witnesses Rorschach's death makes that moment less effective. It isn't a private moment between character and honour. It is still played as one but Niteowl has his head poking out at the back.
So much of the film is lackluster i feel in the end whereas the book is quite the opposite.
Merely ok,
Snyder should have understood that if Terry Gilliam says it's unfilmable then it pretty much is. -
I had never read the comic although I had heard of it (mainly referenced in Heroes talkbacks where people said they were ripping it off with the whole Linderman plotline in S1, and I had also heard it referenced on Lost theory message boards).
So, I endeavored to read it before seeing the movie, and I completed reading it a week before the movie came out. I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed the movie, and I can see why certain things were changed but I do agree that there were certain things that were needlessly changed: the line "nothing ends" not actually spoken from Doc to Veidt, Doc not teleporting the crowd away during the talk show, Rorschach cleavering the guy instead (though my buddy who has never read the comic liked that part), no police investigating Dan and eventually finding his secret, Silk Spectre II not throwing up every time she teleports, Veidt's history not being fleshed out, no explanation for Rorschach's mask.For these things, you will need the novel or animated version. It's funny, people who have not read the comic assume from the movie that the other superheroes have powers because their fight scenes are so OTT. I've had 2 friends that ask me why everyone is powered up and I have to tell them that they aren't...
Overall I enjoyed the movie. Wish there were piles of bodies in the result of Veidt's plot, that was one of the most memorable images from the graphic novel... Especially with the zoom-out of the clock covered in blood that appears at the end of every chapter. -
Some see sex as a holy event between two people. Its also highlights the slightly humerous nature of why they are having sex. Its a mask fetish sex scene and to not call attention to it would be to have missed the point. Plus once you have Laurie pressing the fire buttong when she orgasms its pretty funny so its a nice build up. I wonder if people just take movies too seriously these days. Not every thing is going to be god damn Joker and Dark Knight.
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I'm not clueless as to why it was used...i get it. I just think it was a bad choice due to the fact that the crowd laughed. Plus, I think you'ld have to be a moron not to be able to catch on that its Vietnam.
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Mar 09, 2009 10:15:20 AM CDT
Niteowl witnesses Rorschach's death makes that moment less effec
by knowthyself
Wow. If anything its MORE effective. His best friend just got killed. He should know. In the comics its insulting that Moore has Owl be so dense as not to follow Rorschach outside. And than to have sex after millions die...give me a break. Theirs cynicism and pessimism but moore is being downright insulting at that point. The Owl/Rorschach friendship is an important aspect and Snyder nails it. And having Viedt receive Dans blows willingly speaks volumes as to how he realizes what he did was a necessary evil.
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My friend was studing Wing Chun(SP) and switched to KFM because "there is no flowery bullshit, the idea is to end the shit as quick as possible with no wasted moves or energy."
It looks cool, when you can really see it, TDK was better for it, but still. -
That Snyder gets Watchmen more than most of the people who have been reading it all these years. The responses here to some of his choices boggles the mind.
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I was sort of shocked that they cut short the story as she tells it in the book where she is talking about him breathing all heavy and only then did she realize he was getting off on it. That only would have added like 8 seconds to the story but it added so much more to the punchline I thought...
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Give me a break. At least the story is in the movie at all.
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Wow I guess the idiot who thought Ride of Valkyries was inappropriate has also never seen a little film known as Apocalypse Now. Obviously if you are totally ignorant you would have no idea what the music was a homage to so to.
As for Hallelujah, c'mon guys isn't that what you guys are thinking when you shoot your load? I thought that was quite appropriate.
My two cents about Watchmen. I have read the GN in preparation for the movie. Great read, I'm not normally a comics guy but I enjoyed it but at the same time it didn't change my life. But I respect it for what it is.
The movie to me was very entertaining and conveyed the spirit of the comic. What more can we expect.
Finally as to the fight scenes in Watchmen, they are so superior to BB and DK. If you rewatch DK and think about the opening fight scene and the one at the Mafia bar, they are flat out unexciting and as mentioned are filmed in a way where you can't see anything very clearly. The prison fight scene in Watchmen is a think of beauty with the Camera pulled back so you can see every hit. Hell the Opening fight of the Comedian vs Adrian is incredible as well. -
Our some people honestly thinking Snyder's adaptation is better than Alan Moores writing? Did i miss something? Did the human race just get a few click dumber?
The ending of the book is a beautiful moment where the characters accept what has happened. That humanity is needs this, the horror of the squid to unite. Only Rorscharch sticks to his principles and can't see it. When Niteowl and Specter 2 make love in a pool while Rorschach bites it is so much more effective to story and character development then the films take. Ozy, isn't a villian and shouldn't be taken as one. It's only like that in the film because hollywood thinks were too stupid to not have a bad guy. Look at his black suit for christ's sake in the film. He might as well as be wearing a sign that says "I'm a bad guy."
which he is not. -
Hopefully there won't be much of a crowd. i.e. Douchebags who laugh at the sight of penis, and parents who bring their fertile minded, question asking children. I'm not expecting perfection... just hoping to be entertained.
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I really did.
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Give me slow-mo bone crunching fights any day of the week over that quick cutting, too zoomed in to see anything, shaky cam bullshit we see in movies nowadays.
I also really liked "unforgettable" during the comedian fight, and the use of "all along the watchtower" during antarctica approach. -
So sorry I asked about that 8 seconds. Jeez. I actually loved the movie...
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You're actually a hater because you dared to question something
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Looked shitty and something out of a Double Dragon movie.
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Was Dreiberg wearing makeup to make his face look fatter?
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how do you know he didn't love the movie at all?
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Just want to applaud your name. It sums up about 98% of the back and forth regarding Watchmen for the last two years.
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It was appropriate for Apocalypse Now, but the world has morphed that song into a turd used by pop culture. I understand it, and I am not the idiot. I'm saying it didnt work because it caused laughter...now do you think that was what they were going for with that scene? Next time read my whole post dickhead.
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I may even pay to see it again. Yes, in Imax. Because why the hell not?
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Probably the best American fight scene I've seen since Neo vs Agent Smith in the first Matrix.
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On the whole, I have to agree with the consensus that says that it's about 70-80% of Alan Moore's "Watchmen" and that it's probably the best we could get under the circumstances. That said, three things REALLY bothered me about this:
1. Some decidedly "watch-for-falling-anvils" plot moments, specifically, Doc M explicitly stating the words, "The Comedian is your father."
2. The characters referring to the Ozy/Doc/SS2/NO2/Rorschach/Comedian group as "The Watchmen." Jesus Friggin' Christ, that was annoying. Hand-holding for the morons in the audience who can't figure out a metaphor.
3. Anything and everything Nixon-related.
Although, the Muzak version of "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" in the scene with Ozy and Lee Iacocca had both me and my wife DYING laughing, to the great confusion of everyone around us. -
Three letters away from being 'commode'. I feel sorry for the guy. But he doesn't know shit about Watchmen. He should stick to Bravo horror movie specials.
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...was the best since Roddy Piper and whathisname in They Live. No, I'm not kidding...
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I can't remember if I read anywhere if this was Snyder's intent or not, but it seemed to me as I was watching it that it served as just as much of a satire of the conventions of the superhero MOVIE format as the book was a satire of the conventions of the superhero COMIC format. Down to the breathtakingly obvious musical choices, the Nite Owl "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!", and, hell, even his trademark slow-down/speed-up style.
OH! One more thing that bugged: fucking EVERYONE seeming to just know the peculiarities of Doc M's perception of time. I wasn't aware in the book that it was such a known concept. -
I'd actually put the They Live scene over Matrix
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Being able to punch through concrete and such? Forgive me but I thought Dr. M was the only one with super powers.
The overly stylized wire-fu fight sequences gave Comedian, Nite Owl, Spectre et. al. made them seem overly "super heroic" which completely defeats the point of Watchmen.
These are not exceptional people with extraordinary abilities. They are average schmucks who put on masks to go out and beat up bad guys. Yes they trained to fight better than the average joe but they are not indestructible and that's how the fight scenes made them appear. -
It had to be posted...
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=they+live+%2B+fight+scene&hl=en&emb=0# -
in the other talkback who 'went back and counted the blue penises.'
Seriously man, if you can't spot comedy like that, then just skip my posts - they're not for you. -
When Zack directs again and makes a film with fighter jets, he can use Clair de Lune like the Right Stuff, or if he makes a space picture he can toss in "Also Sprach Zarathustra" How about a little Pomp and Circumstance for that little film about bad boys in the future? Its all homage, you know.. wink wink.. Like ripping off sets from 2001, and Dr. Strangelove, and Altered States.. Zach you are a human Xerox. He could have faded into the Vietnam scene without shooting my brain back to a better film like Apocalypse Now. So he refrences a film from 1979, to take us to the 60's..hrumph.. But I guess he wants to take you back to those great films, maybe by standing in their shadow, a bit of it will rub off.
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I don't get it I have been reading these talkbacks for years, and some of you flame a movie, just to flame it.
I saw Watchmen this weekend, and while yes it was not scene for scene the GN, it was amazing to watch. The music did help the movie progress. The action was over the top, but fit with the power that each character has. The climax fit really well.
I will see it again, and I'd like to see a directors cut and see what hit the floor. -
Agree..disagree?
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She and her husbannd had been Watchmen fans, and they were really looking forward to the movie. Just got a note from her this morning saying that they walked out and demanded their money back. She said it was nowhere near what the film was "represented to be". I don't have any clarification on that, but I'll write her and ask. She told me specifically "Don't waste your money".
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Mar 09, 2009 11:09:48 AM CDT
Hurm ... Meh ... Hard to put a finger on it, and not in a good w
by tyler_durden_69
Look, it is a hard enough thing to try to condense a 12 issue comic down to 3 hours. Gotta commend him for trying. The problem is, after removing parts of it, it almost feels like a Watchmen highlight reel.
The beginning is great … Condensed a lot of info into a little amount of time.
Rorschach was great. A bit more back story would be good
Comedian was good.
Not enough about Moloch, Hollis
Laurie was OK, but needed more backstory
Ozy was too slight of build and needed more backstory
See a trend? Even if it was a movie made for fans, it is a weird feeling. The color palate was right, the shots were often pulled right from the novel, but was that all truly necessary? It is not a primarily action piece like 300. 300 worked great as a direct translation from the GN. Watchmen is too dense and really did not need to adhere directly to the book.
The end was ok, but ultimately fails. America created Dr. Manhattan. That world knew that. If they thought he was the cause, they would certainly have united against the US (Regardless of if they were hit as well)
Too many problems that I doubt will be fixed in an extended cut.
LotR is a lot better example of how to trim down dense, admired, weighty source material.
Another huge issue is the marketing campaign. WB basically put many of the action shots into the trailers, indicating an action superhero movie to the uninitiated. That hit a lot of newbies the wrong way. Saw a lot of people walking out Friday and even some that stayed were all messed up (laughing at the wrong parts, sighing, leaving early)
I hope it gets made into an HBO or Showtime miniseries at some point (though I doubt I will ever see that).
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I think Watchmen = Blade Runner of comics films. Not a terribly original idea, but I think it's an accurate comparison.
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The fights scenes were not "amazing" go and watch a fuckin Hong Kong actioner if you want an "amazing" fight scene, I reccomend S.P.L or Flashpoint two great recent entries, And yes tits, we know when Ride Of The Valkyries was used thats WHY it's a bad choice, it's makes the whole scene cheesy and laughable, as does the other music choices. And as I've got a degree in music and part of that was context studies, I know I AM RIGHT so fuck you, Zach gets a fuckin F for FAIL in the music choices.
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Sorry to all the diehards, but it just is. The squid is ridiculous. Let get that out into the open. It nearly ruined the book for me. It's too big of a leap, and is just downright silly. Here's why the film's version works better (SPOILERS): Dr M. is viewed as being almost Godlike. When the destruction is blamed on him and everyone is afraid that he'll exact his wrath on them again, they behave. I think this speaks to religion and people's motivations in the real world much better than some ridiculous alien invasion threat. John is gone, they will never see him again, much like people don't see God. What lingers is the threat that he might be watching, and that is enough to keep people in line...for a while. Over time people would no longer believe in Dr. Manhattan and things would go back to the way they were. This is a much more poignant and relevant ending than engineering a giant psychic squid creature. I was quite happy with the movie's ending, to me it felt like the ending Moore SHOULD have written. Just because he wrote something else doesn't make that something else better. I also wish they would have written out that fucking mutant lynx, which is never explained in the movie and comes way out of left field. In both the movie and book they should have explained Oz's Antarctica lair better. For all the complaints that Snyder rushed through the ending, I felt Moore did the exact same thing in the book.
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Remember when the Chernobyl nuclear reactor exploded, pouring toxic radioactive gas into our planet's atmosphere, and how all the nations of the world united as one and said with a single voice, "we are one people, now and for all time." Remember that?
yeah neither do I. Everyone said, "Russia is a total failstate. They can't even keep a nuclear power plant running without destroying thousands of lives with their efforts to remain a global super power."
Hell, remember when the terrorist nation of Germany held the whole entire world by the neck and threatened every major city with unfettered destruction, and how the whole world united as one people to ensure we would never again suffer the pain and violence of petty territorialism?
Yeah, I dont recall that myself.
Seems to me people just said, "Germany and Japan, you are very bad. Dont make us hurt you again cuz we totally will, you idiots."
So if Chernobyl = 'damned Russian morons' and if the Holocaust = 'damned fascist Nazis', then how does S.Q.U.I.D. NOT = 'damned Americans'?
While I agree the squid itself would have been outrageously stupid on film, the substitute ending was even MORE stupid.
They should have just gone with making a War of the Worlds style spaceship with little martians in it, and left it at that - its not stupid vagina-shaped idiocy from a Hellboy fanfic, but yet it still has that same impact. -
Mar 09, 2009 11:23:13 AM CDT
Danny--why does it matter how much money it will make?
by six demon bag
it couldve tanked for all i care...its still gonna be what it is..it will be in my collection on dvd. if it tanked, they will never make a needless sequel. im sure in a week or two they will be trying to find a way to milk it more. film rocked
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Not Jewish
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When that scene was on i was like..."hell yeah Dan, hallelujah! Hit that shit! Damn she's fine! Lol this is funny...and hot as shit! Wow...they're gettin pretty hardcore...NICE! Wonder if they'll end with the archie flamethrower...yes! Score! Awesome!"
that's what i was thinking anyway -
In a way I liked it more than the book. I never found the premise that people would band together to work for me, and I felt the same way in the movie, but the movie was more streamlined in its presentation. I got more entertainment value from the film. I was pissed that Dr Manhattan wasnt the one saying "nothing ever ends" at the end tho. That line was supposed to underline Ozy's belief/plan with a strong bit of doubt that it really works out. Anyway, thumbs up overall. Rorchach ruled!
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Mar 09, 2009 11:25:16 AM CDT
This film is not for the masses, only for whiny fanboys
by six demon bag
if Paul Blart makes 100 mil and this doesnt ill be a happy fanboy
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Mar 09, 2009 11:25:59 AM CDT
Six Demon Bag -- because WB took a gamble on this.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
And when it tanks, it will fuck up the chances of cooler R-Rated films being made. Thats why.
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That is a shame. Plenty of "adult" comic book films that could be made but will likely never be
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...oh, uh, wait
I'm not first, am I..... -
Was Blade Runner hated on when it first came out too?
Watchmen is getting loads of hate.
As for the ending.
THE ENDING IS THE SAME PEOPLE!
The New Frontiersman gets Rorshach's journal so Ozy is exposed.
Though all the bodies in the streets are missed, yes i agree. -
I think you're off on all of your points. A. Chernobyl was an accident caused by us. It has no parallel to the squid or Dr. M, both sentient creatures that can actually be perceived as a living, thinking, superior threat that has to be fought against, not simply fixed. B. The world DID band against Nazi Germany until it was destroyed. Why both the Squid and Dr. M endings would conceivably work is that neither of them can be destroyed and they are always "out there". I don't think the peace would last very long myself, which is why Oz's plan ultimately fails. But the fact that nations got together at all isn't a leap. Look at 9/11.
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First, let's dissect why the music works in "Apocalypse Now". It works because "Heart of Darkness" is about Western Man traveling into the jungle and finding the darkness in his own soul revealed there. It's about so-called "civilized" man finding out that he is just as uncivilized as the "savages" he wants to rule. So then you have a movie transferring that plot to the Viet Nam war, and in that scene a supposedly "High Culture" product - a Wagner opera - is transformed into a signpost for savagery, as it plays while the Air Cav exterminate a village. Of course, there are lots of other small jokes attached to that big joke - the Valkyries were flying creatures that brought death from the skies; Wagner was himself an asshole and brute, despite his mastery of a highly civilized and cosmopolitan art form; Wagner was embraced by the most savage product of western civilization, the Nazi regime; etc. So it works pretty well. So why does it work here? Because Doctor Manhattan is supposed to be a symbol of a "Low Culture" product, the comic book Superman. So if Coppola was trying to show the darkness that lurked in western "High Culture" by using Wagner, Snyder is dotting the i on that by showing the darkness lurking at the heart of western "Low Culture" as well. It also works because the Comedian later says that if the US had won in Viet Nam, the country might have gone crazy - but harkening back to Apocalypse Now is meant to show that we were crazy even before we lost, and that winning might have made us even crazier. And he does that by pairing Doctor Manhattan with another example of that insanity. And then there's ALSO the fact that Watchmen is supposed to be a "meta-" work to begin with. It doesn't make sense to view Snyder's take on such a work and then complain that he makes deliberate references to other works. That's kind of expected, maybe DEMANDED by the material.
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A degree in music, huh? Hurm...sure doesn't seem like any way a person could argue with a degree of that heavy magnitude...
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Your friends sound like uptight assholes who knew damn well they would hate it and paid their money just to storm out in a huff.
We've all seen bad movies in our time but damn.
How many have you actually walked out on?
Does Watchmen fall into the same category of that film? It takes a stellar crapfest for me to do that.
One usually knows what they're walking into in the first place...did your friends just crawl out from underneath a rock? -
Stars Wars, 2001, Blade Runner, The Matrix, Fight Club. Eyes Wide Shut. The Shining. Yup Critics sure know what their talking about. Yup.
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It's just plain stupid. Screw any idiot who pays money and then walks out. I agree in that your friends are morons and just wanted to be 'cooler than the movie and its fans.' How can you have an opinion on the film if you haven't even seen the whole thing? Hell, I had to sit through MI:II because a friend wanted to go. And if ever there was a film to walk out of, that would have been the one...
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Now that's a fucking handle. Good show.
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they'd have been shot years ago. Tell me, really, how Rorschach doesn't get shot in a realistic world. These guys are non-super superheros based on the "Action Heroes" of Charlton comics that were acquired in the mid-80's by DC. In "1964", Moore has one of his athletic "non-super-powered" heroes jumping from a skyscraper, using flagpoles and awnings to land on a truck and commenting about how hard that is without any powers. And Veidt can catch a bullet. But the point is they aren't "super" -- yeah. Tell you what... why don't you do a whole lot of training and then try to catch a bullet and let me know how well that works for you.
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I found it really distracting. The richest and smartest man in the world, yet he couldn't sort out his fucking speech impediment? Really? C'mon.
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So a rich playboy can train and use his 'bat cycle' to beat any criminal on earth, including an insane guy who somehow manages to emply an army of devoted thugs, making TDK some awesome piece of cinema and a guy can build a metal flying suit to fight another guy in a metal suit and that is awesome too, but when the members of Watchmen do it, somehow it's over the top? *rolls eyes*
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Dr. Otoo and the Riddle of the Gloom Beam ...
And it was a test screening -
The answer is that in the comics, the costumed characters besides Dr M didn't have super powers, and didn't act like they do. In the movie, Snyder decided to have them act superhuman, which was stupid and of course missed the whole point of them being regular people. But of course they do the same with Batman and that movie made $1 billion, so maybe Snyder was just trying to please the ignorant masses.
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Had to Google that title...thought you were making that shit up lol. Great title...then I saw "Jim Varney".
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make the silver surfer his bitch? He was the only truly cool character in the movie. The rest were normal humans in shitty 40's costumes. They could do inexplicable things given the had no powers. Punching a chunk of concrete and brick out of a wall? Really???
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Ozzy speaking German? If I remember, Matthew Goode said his interpretation of Ozymnandias was that his parents were Nazis. He would have a German accent as a super hero but lose it in his civilian identity.
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The ending works, squid or Doc, because of the tribalism part of human nature, and that the more powerful the "threat", the wider the "tribe" we choose to identify with.
Say I'm a Packers fan, and you like the Bears. Ok, we argue. Until someone NHL fan comes along and says "Football sucks!". Suddenly, me and you the Bear fan drop our difference and unite against the lame hockey dude. Then some PC-person comes along and says "All sports are decadent, or whatever, and ought to be banned" and suddenly the NHL guy is our friend and we fight the PC person. Then someone attacks our country, and . . . well you get the picture.
An alien invasion threat, or an "alien" Doc Manhattan wrath threat, serve the same purpose. Unite the warring earth nations. Create a "tribe" out of all mankind. No? -
Did you notice Annie Liebowitz photographing Veidt and the crowd at Studio 54? Nice touch!
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The Burbs, Matrix II, Batman Forever, Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay, Jaws IV (I know, I know, I never should have been there), ANY Star Trek film after Khan, and all 3 of the new Star Wars films...
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I agree. And the movie will do just fine for WB. It will make enough domestically. It was never going to do Dark Knight numbers or even Iron Man numbers. It's going to be a huge draw on them for DVD for years. It plays like a Kubrick film, but will resonate through the years like Blade Runner: a perceived "disappointment" at the time that will stick around and grow in stature as the years go on. In the days of mass media and snark, a film is either completely beloved or completely trashed by the death of a thousand nitpicks.
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Hewed to the graphic novel religiously. Flawless casting. Action sequences had nice balance no heavy cut aways or excessive slo-mo trickery.
Rorschach was mesmerizing as was any scene with Dr. Manhattan. The
murder of the Comedian was incredibly brutal. Night Owl and Silk Specter in the alley is grisly, shocking and perfect. Rorschach in prison will
become a part of the zeitgeist.
Truely earned its R. When it comes out on DVD, I will screen this one
privately. No child should EVER see this movie. Brutally honest
filmaking.
Definately a fanboys movie. Not likely to make a great impact on the general movie goer. My Oldest Daughter reports that her generation found the movie
difficult to appreciate. Considering that it is for all intents and purposes a period (its amazing that 1985 feels so distant in real life, but I could feel myself living in those moments) movie, it does not resonate with the Hip-Hop generation. Lots of correlation to current events, subversive.
Studio made mistake by trying to advertise this as a "superhero" movie. If thats what you expected you will be disappointed. This is a story about some very flawed, very human people who do very stupid things for the best of reasons.
Really calls into question the myth of the "super" human. If you are for all intents and purposes, a god, Why would you care?
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Did you find Goode's lisp...fucking dithtracting? Ah-da-da-dah, like thith in the background. What the fuck ith it with you, Veidt? What don't you fucking underthtand? (Being the thmartetht man on the planet he probably underthtandth everthing)
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Total crap fest
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City of Joy, Christmas with the Kranks (visiting family over a holiday - I still have nightmarish flashbacks) and Waterworld. 6 hours of my life that would have been more enjoyably spent rubbing my taint with steel wool.
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yeah but have you seen Watchmen? Now that's a fucked up comic book movie.
Though i do agree its sad that Ozy is obviously the villain from the first fight.
And that the weight of his actions is lost a bit. really i'll never know unless I went in fresh with out reading the book first...hurm -
I mean come on. As soon as Manhattan didn't attack for a year or so the world would start going after each other again. Same goes for the squid. Both endings sucked. The only thing worth watching in this entire film was Rorschak (besides Ackerman's T&A). Everything else, from the cliche, slo-mo induced, cartoonish fight scenes that defied physics (don't give me that it's a comic book bullshit either), to the breathtakingly awful and utterly flat acting and writing, sucked.
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Mar 09, 2009 12:41:53 PM CDT
Ain It Cool News post-ers that I no longer pay attention to:
by slone13
"rutgersjaffo" and anyone else who can not appreciate the hilarity that is The Burbs.
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Its a great film but most people are going to hate it. The geeks just blew a chance at world domination.
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seriously.
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Schindler's List...and not because it was "bad".
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HoboCode says: "As soon as Manhattan didn't attack for a year or so the world would start going after each other again. Same goes for the squid".
Well, with the Manhattan ending, what is to stop Ozy from doing a targeted follow-up blast or two, to people that get out of hand? In fact, this is why the Manhattan ending may be better than the squid. One or two follow-ups might just last for a century. -
Ok, ok, IF there is absolutley NOTHING ELSE on basic cable, I will watch it like once in a blue moon. But I feel dirty afterwards for having done so...
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wtf?? can someone explain that to me.
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Schindler's List is HUGELY overrated...
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know the story too well and like it too much. I saw the movie and it didn't do anything new for me. which is a bummer. but what did i expect? when you know what's coming where's the fun in that? i already knew what that horrible actress malin akerman looked like naked thanks to the Heartbreak Kid. no suprise 3rd nipple or nothing. and how the hell did she weasel her way into this flick anyway?
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That is the only movie I have ever walked out of in my life. I have no idea what made me want to see it. Still hold my head down in shame.
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'Dead Man' with Johnny Depp which I was about to fall asleep in. 'I Shot Andy Warhol' because that character was just annoying and I couldn't take it anymore and at the very end of the 'The Island of Dr. Moreau' (1996). I hated David Thewlis for a long time after that. It was only PoA that made me okay with watching him.
Why would anyone want to walk out on the 'Burbs? That's a great movie.
But people walking out of Watchmen is just a case of idiots not knowing who they are or what they're doing. If you're delicate as far as movies are concerned you should know this about yourself and should check to see what movies are about before you go. The marketing for this movie went over my head. Since I already knew the material, I just didn't pay attention to it. So I don't know if it mislead anyone but the fact is "rated R" means RESTRICTED for people under 17. There's usually a reason for that. If they haven't realized that buy now, we need them out of the gene pool. -
I really liked the movie, it is true enough to the comic to where I don't feel cheated as a fanboy and the cast was pitch perfect (except for silk spectre 1). My only complaint is I felt the music choices were so hamfisted. They chose the most obvious songs for each scene. The use of "Sound of Silence" during the funeral completely took me out of the scene. I'll forgive "All Along the Watchtower" because if memory serves that was referenced in the book but Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" during the sex scene, ug...are you serious?
It's a shame actually because if it wasn't for the film student selected music choices, this would be my favorite comic book film ever and actually one of my favorite films ever for that matter. Kudos to Snyder on everything else. -
Finish the damn movie. Even if its bad at least finish the damn thing. Plus you can only get your money back if you leave within the first 15 minutes I believe. And if your walking out to make a statement thats pretty sad because frankly...no one cares. When people walk out all I see is wasted money.
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I think StrokerX might be Skynet. Shhhh.
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...reminded me of Stroker Ace. Add that to the list of films I should have walked out of. Although Ned Beatty is always fun to watch!
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So your neighbors are about to fight, and both of 'em have guns. You vomit on the street in front of them, distracting them long enough to forget their fight for the moment. I know a woman who did this: it's called a "pattern interrupt," designed to jolt people out of a specific pattern. Maybe they'll fight again tomorrow, or maybe you've bought enough time for cooler heads to prevail. What happens next? That's a Rorschach, isn't it? Those who think the basic nature of man is good will think one thing, those who think us evil, or stupid, will think another. Personally, I'll take the extra time, and believe that cooler heads will prevail: after all, we haven't blown ourselves up, now have we? Of COURSE Manhattan could come back, for any number of reasons. And Ozymandias undoubtedly has plans. And there are other superheros in the world (what, you think they're all in New York? And all white? Oh, please). So you could very easily have sequels. Would they be as good as the original? The chances are almost nil. But if, say, I heard Cameron was doing it, I'd sure as hell be curious.
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Watch that opening weekend plummet to 11 million next weekend.If the mass of people walking out the movie before it ended, and the mostly shitty reviews, are any indication.
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OK..ys Island of Dr. Moreau was painful and embarrassing. I shot Andy Warhol was tough to watch - Lili Taylor was good in it as Valerie Solanas but Valerie WAS immensely fucking annoying (which got her cut out of Warhol's reindeer games so she got pissed). But I hafta disagree on Dead Man - I love that movie. I totally get why so many people hated it...but I love several of Jim Jarmusch' films (Ghost Dog is one of my favorites). Dead Man is def. slow at times (especially the first third of the film or so) but try rewatching it a second time and see if your opinion changes
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I'm seriously dating myself here, but Andy Warhol's FRANKENSTEIN was the most demented, disgusting and nauseating thing I've ever experienced. I would watch a live human sacrifice before I subjected myself (or any other thinking creature) to that gibbering piece of celluloid rubbish.
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You can get your money back if you leave in the first 15 mins? Really?
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...is bullshit. Here, all 3 theaters sold out for every show for the whole weekend at Lowe's theater and the guys I talked to who were working yesterday said nothing at all about anyone walking out. Nor did I see anyone leave and fail to return during the Imax showing I attended. Not saying that 'proves' anything, but I just find it hard to believe that people are walking out of this film in droves with all of the positive press it's gotten...
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The good: Opening credits, performances by Crudup, Wilson, Haley, Morgan. Mixed: Performances by Akerman and Goode. Music choices. Fight scenes. Bad: Scenes with Nixon, ending changes, that AWFUL cover of Desolation Row. Overall I enjoyed it, but am I the only one that felt that, with 30 minutes left in the movie, it felt like Snyder just put the pedal to the metal to try to hit every plot point as fast as possible? It clashes with the somewhat leisurely pace of the film up until then. I think the narrative through line (Rorschach's investigation) should have been given more weight to shape the narrative properly. Because as it is, the film is top-heavy.
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Absolutely. The same rule applies to prostitutes...
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I've read the GN and you know what if people thought it was underwhelming then they are right because the GN is also that.
Unlike the oldies who read it when it first came out, I only just read it 2 years ago. So as you can guess I have read better stories.
What I'm trying to say is yes at the time it was revolutionary but not now. So go in and forget all the hype of the original and watch the movie. It is as good as the GN. I don't understand all the hate. All the portrayals are spot on as is the feel of the whole thing. -
Take your Hong Kong actioners and shove em up your ass, fucknut. Oh wait, you've got a degree in music? Fag.
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All,
Well it was a fine 12:01 on Thursday night opening day, and my son and I watched the watchmen. Overall, a 7 out of 10, a 3.25 out of 5 for some reasons you will see below. A solid representation of our heroes, with changes for the better, the worse and the lack of a Squid prevent it from being perfect. However, I enjoyed what was right all the way and will see it again, unlike THE DARK KNIGHT. (Once was enough.)
The film runs about 2.45 hours and never feels tired, dragging or rushed. It moves at a great clip and includes every major event the book does. Elements that added to the story such as TALES OF THE BLACK FREIGHTER, The street corner visits, Rorschach's psychiatrists home life etc will be left for the directors cut DVD. That's fine and I will also enjoy that.
Rorschach rules the film. As an out of control Batman with no conscious that has decided that evil must be killed and there is only black and white and no grey, he's amazing on screen. Even better, when he removes his mask and he's just plain Ernie Kovacks, he's even better! I could have seen him unmasked for the whole rest of the film. His origin story is one of the more untouched from the book, and he's a very gritty bastard.
Silk Specter II (Laurie) was a surprise. Everyone is blasting her performance, but she is FAR more likeable on screen then in the book where I found her flighty, shallow, drifting with the wind and with much wind between her ears. Here she has depth and spunk.
The one character I identify with is Dan - NightOwl. He's like a modern Batman with his owlship, his multiple battle suits and gadgets. The actor for him nails the characters and really brings him to life.
The Comedian is a right bastard and you really want him to get his punishment. The opening killing of him goes on forever and while you really need to be drawn into the mystery since there's much talking after this event, it could have been truncated to make room for a better ending(more on this later).
In fact, where the film goes wrong is when they deviate from the comic and add in extra or longer jazzed up sequences to keep everyone's attention. A simple goon or 2 in his cell to beat on when they go to rescue Roarshack at the jail becomes a highly choreographed fight sequence down a long jail hallway where these out of sharp heroes are whooping up on thugs with ninja moves to a techno beat. Again, I guess, to illustrate that this is a superhero movie and to keep you awake while we deal with grown up stuff like talking and plot development.
Characters origins are truncated, elements switched around and simplified to simply get through it. Doctor Manhattans origin is changed to the point that all the sadness and feeling you got from a 3rd generation watchmaker who wanted to follow the family business but is prevented by his father who pushes him into Atomic research because of the coming war. In the comics he flirts with a girl at the research base, never gets in bed with her, tries to fix her watch as a wooing ritual, and goes back to get his coat where he left her watch and gets trapped in the machine that turns him into a god. In the film, the have sex, he goes back to get HIS watch he just left in the test room and gets trapped. Its the little things that they change for no reason that tend to strip feeling and angst from our characters.
And lastly, the end of the film. Whereas before, the twist ending is that one of our heroes has decided that the only way to save the world from killing itself in the 80's with nuclear weapons about to be launched at any moment is to make us band together as a WORLD to fight an alien\interdimentional threat. Problem is, the threat is a hoax, masterminded, created and executed in a highly sci-fi\Outer limits way. The fear is that audiences either wouldn't get it, think its hoaky or feel it would require way too much setup to get this done. I decry all those explanations.
I watched the new ending and was looking at all elements - how long it took to explain the new ending, how it played out logically, and if it worked better then the bookending, and it fails on all 3 counts. What's missing is the 6 panels of outlandish horror standing at ground zero as the squid is teleported into the street corner..the raw death, destruction and faces frozen in horror. What's missing is a logical mindset that would make the world drop everything from 5 mins ago and hold hands as a world to battle this new threat. I doubt the countries would believe that it was nothing we did, considering the source is an American superman.
In the end, a film with allot of heart, with splinters of Hollywood notes under its skin. It didn't need to be jazzed up so we are reminded its a superhero film. If didn't need a new ending because we cant handle an attack from another dimension. It didn't need shorter, truncated origin stories.
It did need what it got in everything else. A very fun, though provoking adventure. An experience not to be missed, and re watched time and again. It even has giant blue dongs! Dozens of them for the ladies. -
DAMNIT!
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the maybe you guys would like it.
Also you are just asking for it if the blue dong is all you guys can see. It's not even that prominent. -
Good Adaptations: Godfather, Psycho, Ice Storm, American Psycho, No Country for Old Man...etc Why? Because they had intelligent directors who understood their source material and DIRECTED good performances out of their actors. There are so many good movies that are adapted from other mediums. Unfortunately Watchmen is not one of those films. Why? Because you don't care what happens. You don't care about the characters, you don't care about the story, it just doesn't involve you in any real emotional or intellectual way. It just sucks and it's a shame because somebody out there could have a made a good film from the comic. Maybe Gilliam or Aronofsky or even Fincher, somebody who is not only interested in the shiny surfaces of a story but also the aspects of a story that make you care. Is that so much to ask for for my hard earned money? These days it might be because all the fucking retards out there who get blinded by the hype... Fucking pathetic.
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Personally I found his performace to be pretty shitty. It was flat and dull. This guy is an omnipotent being and Crudup gives him zero charisma. I know he's supposed to be detached and everything but fuck. At least give a facial expression.
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it was alright.I loved the comic but understood that comic book movies will really never be all you want them to be.Dr M on the moon flashbacking and the rorshack stuff were money but mostly everything else was just alright
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It didn't really have a mood to it until Doc Manhattan was on Mars. By then, it was too late. Is it the Watchmen? No, not really. But it was as close as we're gonna get. On its own, it's not a bad movie. I enjoyed it as soon as I stopped trying to see it as the GN come to life.
I just kept remembering the Sam Hamm script I read years ago, and suddenly it was a fucking masterpiece!
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You all know this to be true!
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I got a watchmen film that im happy with. yes, if the film drops steadily, i wont be because it was bad...its because mass audiences are idiots. they want Bev Hills Chihuahua or Mall Cop.. Running time and hard R are not really a factor...it got the big opening they wanted...Thats all studios seem to really want nowadays anyway, hence the mass hype.
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So are there some Silk Spectre/Comedian flashbacks on the cutting room floor? Because the big revelation was really hurt by that lack of exposition. Malin Ackerman's lack of talent didn't help much either I suppose.
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Mar 09, 2009 1:45:03 PM CDT
I think, in the last analysis, Snyder was out of his range
by mattyboy122
Whenever it seemed to me like the film was drowning or collapsing under its weight (because of Snyder's inability to produce much beyond visceral thrills), it seems like Snyder puts in an action scene to sort of get his mojo working again. The problem is that most of the action scenes are not in the spirit of Watchmen at all. Gilliam could've owned this, though.
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I didnt notice the Village People either...
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Great flick..but I'm glad I didn't read the book first as you just can't help compare the two..I thought they did a great job filling in the back story for those like myself who had no previous knowledge of WTF was going to happen...will watch it again...
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They might stay to watch it but when we left I heard people complaining that it was too complicated. Whether that says more about it's success as a film or the intelligence of the average moviegoer I'll leave to you. Oh and about Ned Beatty - anything except Repossesed. That film was as funny as watching your balls fall off
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Jeebus name818, how do you not get that? Its ironic and humorous.
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...and I am still not entirely sure about anything, except that I want to see the director's cut. One one hand, I thought Snyder did maybe the best job anyone could have done in forging a faithful film out of a sprawling and intellectually dense GN. The fact that he made the movie and got it released by a major studio is probably a minor miracle, and one for which we should be forever grateful. However, it is also possible that the naysayers who did not believe this book could be filmed were right as well. I left the theater with a sense of vague dissatisfaction. Maybe I was too familiar with the source material and wanted more, more, more. Is it fair of me to feel that a 2:40 movie felt rushed? Probably, and I cannot blame the director for that. Maybe I just need to see it again in a less "demanding" state of mind. Maybe I will just hold out hope that the director's cut will be more to my liking. Or maybe the fact that I have been thinking about this movie non-stop for over 24 hours and still can't wrap my mind around what I saw is the supreme compliment to Zack Snyder. It's just a matter of time, I suppose.
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I know it's probably pointless this far down in the talkback but here goes. Fluffyunbound: Thanks for injecting some intelligence here. I'm so relieved somebody else actually gets the intentions of both Moore and Snyder, regarding the meta material, cultural commentary, and use of music. People complaining about the use of old songs (cliche) have forgotten that most of the book's chapter titles came from popular music (specifically, Dylan and Cale), and that music was a part of the narrative. The use of Flight of the Valkyries is tricky because it's been used as parody so much, audiences are cued to laugh - but the intention is definitely a reference to Apocalypse Now, and given that context, it works. Hallelujah also risky, and mostly because the sex scene felt very 80s, which was the intention. I can't remember the last time I saw a sex scene in an R rated movie that felt so drawn out and unstylized, definitely a holdover from an earlier time. Interestingly, Cohen's original version is a lot more dramatic than the versions I'm more familiar with - John Cale's and Jeff Buckley's - but it works. and this leads to another response, to Oomlot. Genius isn't just about creating new things from scratch. Originality is overrated. In fact, it's impossible. The true genius is to acknowledge the derivative nature of the actual ideas/characters, but then to comment upon them in new ways, deconstruct them, recontextualize them to say something new about them, which is exactly what Moore did with Watchmen in the 80s, with regards to the superhero genre. In fact, one of the main points of Watchmen was its intertextuality - the way he was referencing real history, comic book history, popular culture, media, etc. Which is exactly what Snyder was attempting with the imagery (the opening sequence), the music, and the obviously over the top imitations of 'real' historical figures. I think it worked.
Finally, drturing, I think Goode is right on about his observations on Rorschach - him being severely closeted is a strong possibility with the character - he's violently misogynist, even more so than the Comedian. And that his comments about Ozy being homosexual are his projection - which are further evidence of an extreme self-loathing. Many other readers and critics have made this observation, so Goode didn't make it up. It's not the only interpretation, but it's a possible one. Hobocode, I don't know what you're talking about. Crudup plays the Doc exactly how he is written in the book, and exactly how I imagined it. What's he supposed to do? Mug for the camera?Finally, people who complain about 'not caring' for the characters - again, the book is more about ideas, any distance we have with the characters has to do with our approach to these issues, as it was in the book. But I can't believe anyone could see Haley's portrayal of Rorschach and his 'do it' scream at the end, and not be moved. That seething rage, refusal to give up his position of justice but knowing he has lost and has nothing left. Amazing. -
-- including international and Imax.
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This thing will be lucky to make it over 100 mil. Shit, it'll be lucky to make it over 90 mil. This was just an awful awful movie made exclusively for the 100,000 people who loved this comic. To everyone else it was a long boring wandering excuse for a movie.
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I saw ads for this thing back last summer. Way too early. They should have waited until the winter.
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I think it's fast tracking to $100 million easy. Should do that in a fortnight or so. With the exception of 300, every other 'R' rated film has been part of a franchise or based on a well known property ("Passion of the Christ"). For 'Watchmen' to open as the 6th highest 'R' rated picture, it's doing quite well.
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Suck my fuckin cunt lips you prick, the music might be "cool" for people who have read the comics, NEWSFLASH this was a fuckin movie dicks, some people have not read Watchemen, and will only inevitably relate the overused and obvious music choices to parody, if Zachs aim was for the whole theater to look at each other laugh and roll their eyes at each musical choice then he succeded. Silly me I would have found it a better adaptation if Snyder would have at least introduced some of his own ideas, (Doc's music when he was first on Mars was perfect) And yea I got a degree and I AM RIGHT so fuck off and listen to The Osmonds you fart blossomAnd rutgersjaffo you don't deserve a reply since you think you should have walked out of The Burbs'
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Doesn't have a clue.
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I thought it was really good. It was 100% what I expected, and I'm not surprised the average moviegoer is disappointed though. Basically if you haven't read the book and aren't a fan there's a high probability that it is either a) not going to be what you're expecting or b) not something you're into. Then if you're in the category of people who have read and liked the book, if you're someone that holds it in such high esteem that it's basically a holy tome to you, there's no possible way they could have made something that would please those people. So basically there's very few people that they could have pleased with this movie. That's why it's so incredible that not only this movie got made but that it's such a blockbuster in terms of budget and promotion behind it. I see it as a very niche movie and that' who's going to enjoy it, a very niche audience. But I for one loved it. I think they were very respectful of the source material and I thought the changes were OK. They didn't bother me at all. And I disagree that they didn't maintain the "soul" of it, I think if anything that's what they did do.
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You all seem to follow this movie's earnings as if you were watching some kind of sporting event. Do you need a movie to make a lot of money to justify your love for it? Or vice versa?
Also this idea of "we need to support it even if it's not so great otherwise the studios will never make another R rated comic adaptation" smacks of silly, ignorant "strategic voting". They said a Watchmen movie would never happen and it did. Do you really think the studios would NEVER try again? That's crazy talk.
My 2 cents: I think Mr. Moore is probably right (if a grumpy old crank) but I 'll wait for the DVD. -
I saw Watchmen on Saturday and was very pleased with it. Snyder made plenty of changes, true, but in my opinion it all still worked.
I am glad the SQUID is gone.
Actually, using Dr. Manhattan to unite the world in peace works better for me.
I enjoyed the opening credits exposition, and although I would have liked to see the "Comic Book" in the Comic Book storyline, I can see it would have confused some.
All the characters were realized well, although I had hoped to see more of Silk Spectre 1 and Night Owl 1.
The CGI penis was a little distracting, but only because the audience I was with tittered and giggled each time it was on screen.
Overall, I liked it. I will see it again, and I will be getting the DVD. -
And if it wasn't for my Hong Kong actioners all of the fight scenes in todays hollywood cinema would still be shit.
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When did the money a film makes become a measure of quality? Some films you can absolutely love, but watching them once a year is enough.
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Never read the GN, but loved this piece of bold, stimulating, and adult entertainment. Had no problems with the cast including Ackermann and Goode And Rorschak and The Comedian with brilliant characters. Jackie Earle HAley may just be the new movie bad-ass. Not badx for a midget. The scenes without his mask were amazing!! 9/10. Very happy indeed :)
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The hope is that the movie will make 'R' rated material with difficult subject matter less of a threat to studio execs. If 'Watchmen' succeeds at the box office, filmmakers might be able to create more demanding movies for a major studio. I know -- wishful thinking, but we can hope can't we?
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That is my one major complaint. I thought the soundtrack and music were largely underwhelming and forgettable and not what I would expect for a large blockbuster/tentpole comic book movie. It felt "phoned in" IMO. But I still enjoyed it..
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I'm gonna be in the extreme minority on this site, but the violence level for this movie is extremely high for what would otherwise be a very mainstream action movie. I have no problem with an R rated "superhero" movie, but I'm in the large group of the public that would never watch SAW or Hostel, because I don't want to watch people saw off arms with circular saws. I don't mind grease in the face, martial arts action (even with the compound fractures if the close up of said fracture doesn't take up 75% of the screen), people thrown from windows, and drowning midgets in prison. I would even be OK with this if the most extreme gore was Rorschach's death at the end. But splitting skulls with butcher knives, severing limbs with power tools, and showing dogs eating a little girl are so absurdly gross and awful that it dramatically lowered the entertainment value of the movie for me. I think Rorschach's mental imbalance could have been established without so extreme a flashback. I recognize some people enjoy this, otherwise why would SAW have spawned so many sequels, but I think this level of gore should be saved for the "torture porn" movies and kept out of mainstream action blockbuster types. The story is too good, the characters too awesome, the movie too sexy to save just for the gorehounds out there to enjoy. I want the lasting images of the movie to be Manhattan's Mars palace, Nite Owl's ship screaming through the city, or Silk Spectre unzipping her costume, not a 6 year old girl's foot being eaten by dogs.
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Has just made the most sense in his last two posts in this whole TB
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I'm wondering what kind of legs this flick is gonna have in the long run... And I'm sure EVERYONE here whether or not you liked the movie, can agree that we want it to do well at the box office. It will be for the good of Hollywood as a whole lol.
PS Check out www.ileasebeats.com if you want to help me with my seo rating.
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shuffle their positions like deck chairs on the Titanic. It's a hard job to keep. Scapegoats abound. Look what happened after 'Fight Club' -- a bunch of firings at Fox. I doubt the current execs at New Line would greenlight 'Magnolia' today. I'm just sayin'.
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Are Fox Fans boycotting this bad boy?!?
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...and I'll whisper "No".
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but I wasnt offended by the violence one bit... But I'm a child of the 80s where every movie was violent as hell... I grew up watching The Fly, Robocop, The Thing, etc... To me this was nothing... And actually I thought Dark Knight was just as violent (maybe more???) Sure there was no blood but it was still violent... The scene where Two Face is threatening Gordon's family and waving a gun at his crying son's face is more disturbing than anything in Watchmen IMO...
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Unforgivable!
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It was fine. I read WATCHMEN back in the mid 90's. Liked it. Well done. Only remembered basic points and broad strokes and no specifics so I brought no baggage to the film.
How often does a movie like this come out? NEVER. Relish it. It is somewhat of an anomally. This type of material never sees the light of day outside of the micro niche of geeks. I laugh to think of the unsuspecting movie goer walking into this film.
For the most part Zack succeeded. I couldn't have asked for more. I don't expect much when complex material like this is attempted...if you are one who does... you are a fool. I'll take this film as is complete with all my personal quips and nitpicks which I won't even bother to list here.
An interesting contrast to this is Superman Returns (which is by comparison a nursery rhyme cpmpared to the WATCHMEN narrative)which by far under achieved by adding uneccesary beats and not striking the most obvious elements needed to make it a great story. Snyder succeeds with this unwieldly "unfilmable" book whereas Singer should have with much less challenging material.
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You know, looking back, even tho the X-Men trilogy was good, I always thought they could've been better... I wonder what he would've done with that material... Maybe 10 years from now he can do a "Dark Knight"-esque Rated R reboot...
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Of course you do. Otherwise, why would you make such a snap judgement?
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Me, either. And everyone I know kept going on and on about this horrid rape scene. Have they never seen "The Accused"? I mean, I didn't laugh through this one or anything, but as far as those things go it was sort of reserved.
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Unforgivable!
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with the one exception being Rorschach's hatchet to the head of the child kidnapper - all that violence you're squeamish about was in the book. In fact the movie toned down (or removed entirely) the very disturbing dead bodies after the squid (due to the nature of Manhattan's power, people are just reduced to goo instead). The dogs, the cut off arms, all that stuff was in the book. I guess they wanted to up the shock factor with the hatchet, since the whole 'blow the room up where the bad guy is handcuffed' has been done so much. I'm not sure I agree with that choice, but it's definitely a bold one.
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WHY?! That makes no sense. That'd be like making a PG 'Ranxerox'. Hmm, maybe Snyder should do that next.
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Saw it the 1st time with someone who never read the comic and who hated it and it kinda ruined it a little for me... Saw the 2nd time with someone who loved it and