Cool News
‘What Am I?? What Am I??’ Friday Brings A Final-Four BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Ron Moore’s fellow “Deep Space Nine” vets David Weddle & Bradley Thompson scripted tonight’s installment, titled “Someone To Watch Over Me.”
SciFi says:
Kara befriends a charismatic piano player in Joe's Bar, who helps her face a shattering realization about her destiny.
The episode also seems to focus quite a bit on Tyrol and the imprisoned Boomer.
After tonight, only three episodes left. (Or two episodes if you count the three-hour “Daybreak” as one.)
Next week’s episode, “Islanded in a Stream of Stars” is said to explain everything – maybe even why Laura Roslin shares dreams with dirty Cylons.
10 p.m. Friday. SciFi.
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
Kirk!! Spock!! Blu-ray!!
The New Prequel About The People
Who Thought Cylons Were A Good Idea!!
Kirk!! Spock!! Blu-ray!!
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+ Expand All
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Neon Genesis. Just watch out for a final mind fuck in the last episode exactly like the end of the Evangelion show.
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Feb 27, 2009 3:05:37 AM CST
The Cylons put Boomer on trial for treason but not Athena?!
by boomers_lips
Athena is an even bigger traitor than Boomer. and what did Booner do that was so traiterous? All she did was vote with Cavil. Team Natalie were the ones who went homicidal after they didn't agree with a vote! Athena is an outright traitor/murderer to her race and is a bitch!
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haha. If you're right, people will be talking about BSG for fifty years trying to figure out what the f**k happened... "right, so a giant Starbuck started flying over New Caprica, while everyone else turned to primordial goop, and then..."
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...Boomer shoot Adama season one or am I mistaken, I think thats why they're making the big deal about her, maybe.
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Daniel Graystone invented the CYLON and he also 'resurrected' his dead daughter Zoe as the first Skinjob! Funny how not one character ever mentions that fact.
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What are we going to have starbuck sitting in a chair for the entire last episode? I don't get how you could even compare the two. This post brought to you by HBO.
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Boomer shot the old man while in sleeper mode. Shes been killed 2 times since thar incident and I doubt shes retained any sleeper programming after downloading twice. They should give her amnesty on the grounds that Athena has from time to time, withheld crucial information from Adama. A pardon or some probation is preferable. Adama constantly makes deals with the Cylons and it should be no different with Boomer!
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Feb 27, 2009 3:31:13 AM CST
why hasn't Adama ever mentioned his sister was a Skinjob?!
by boomers_lips
Tamara Adama & Zoe Graystone were 'resurrected' by Daniel after they were killed.
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I'm glad that Rose McGowan is taking over her role on that show. Katee is really irritating and she speaks in a low voice that I assume is supposed to make her sound sexy but it doesn't. Katee is not sexy. Shes the tomboy next door. "Youre not wearing any underwear Dr. McNamara."
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I guess WickedJacob is talking about the film ending of NGE, not the "we've run out of money, so the interns are making it" TV ending.
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Because you have a severe predilection for repetition. Every godsdamned week you get on here and post spoilers or pick on Katee Sackhoff and her Nip/Tuck character. We get it already. You don't like her. I wish Rose McGowan was taking over YOUR role here on the talkback.
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I have a feeling it will suck regardless they are wasting another hour on bullshit we could do without. Has anyone not figured out Caprica Six is the one who actually caused the Nuclear Pwnage and needs to be airlocked or some such shit. Instead we will get lame reasons why Boomer should be bum molested, she was brainwashed and didnt know what she was doing and then found it hard to fit in once back with the Cylons. She then elects to choose "free will" over the general sheepish mentality the rest of the her sisters seem keen on. They really want to fuck her over for that...did the writers not realise some of the above points before wasting another episode on bullshit. You know for me the episode where Anders first meets CapSix and Boomer (planting the bomb) was where things started to get sketchy for me...CapSix via in head Baltar seemed to be gearing her and in turn Boomer to right the wrongs they had done to humanity.Ever since then and through all the NewCaprica stuff I have felt Boomer and Capsix have just become lost, D'Anna's storyline with Baltar I felt SHOULD have been CapSix's in keeping with her and Baltar being the strongest characters in the show. Since then though they have lost the plot with them two who you thought would be playing a massive role these remaining episodes, but are relegated to background noise.
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Was NOT a Cylon. (I think). All Daniel Greystone did was download their personalites and memories into digital copies, not skinjobs.
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Feb 27, 2009 4:06:10 AM CST
there's a preview clip on the youtube for tonights episode.
by boomers_lips
it's about 1 minute long. Tigh, Tory, Ellen & Tyrol are having drinks at Joe's Bar and are discussing the trial of Boomer. Tyrol wants to use their Final Five status to save her but the other 3 don't want to interfere with the Rebel Cylons plans for Boomer and refuse to get involved. PREVIEW ENDS.
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Last weeks episode was terrible almost as bad as some of the filler episodes of previous seasons like the boxing one....i'm not even excited about watching this ...which is sad!!!
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If the final five arrived met up with the colony cylons at the end of the war and created the skinjob models...but then Greystone invented a skinjob BEFORE all of this?!?!? Too big to be a continuity frack, so I'm sure there's an explanation...I just don't have a clue of what it could be.
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Feb 27, 2009 4:31:52 AM CST
Boomers_Lips is the ONLY reason I come on here for the BSG talkb
by red43jes
I mean, he points out everything we possibly haven't thought of, has to inject six posts in 2 hours, when few even really reply to him...I think Montag666 hit it right on the head. This isn't the Boomers_Lips talkback...its BSG talkback, fanboy. Heres a challenge- 'Lips, howz about WATCHING the episode next week, BEFORE you post, THEN critique it...I'd be more interested in what you thought of the episode, as opposed to your speculation thats almost the same dribble every week...but heck, we know you can't do it, you STILL think your informing us...
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I hope one of the final episodes explains everything in a real A-B-C fashion because i honestly haven't got a clue what is going on anymore. I'm watching it to find out what happens at the end but am not desperate to see the episode's like i was in the early series'.
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(If that's what it is) looks shite. Some 11 year old with photoshop elements made it, using stock photos from the interwebs.
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Feb 27, 2009 4:44:22 AM CST
Love the cast for Caprica, but am not into the show itself...
by prof. pop-cult
That's just how I feel. I love all the actors they've cast in it. I would have preferred it if they had been cast together for an entirely different series on SciFi. Honestly, the more I read and see about Caprica, the more my initial impression of it seems to be true: That it's utterly lame and pointless.As for BSG, yeah, these final episodes are getting bad. Let's hope the final three hours make up for everything.
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that's my feeling. The prequel tv movie already has way too much negative buzz around it that will carry over into season 1. Jane Espenson reworks the whole thing to give it a lighter tone, it's gone after season 2. Same with StarGate: Universe (after 3 years it's gone).
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Is a badly drawn african american gentleman inflicting the Chewbacca defence on the viewers. It was leaked by Helo.
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I know that there have been trolls insulting those of us who find the explanations the show has been giving us as "confusing" but, really, I find that the explanations we've gotten (through Anders and Ellen) to be utterly un-compelling, and delivered in just flat-out dull ways. I'm fearing that we won't get any flat-out final explanations, but if we do, they will be delivered by characters as long-winded monologue. And it seems like the human characters (i.e. Adama and Roslyn) have pretty much given up on doing anything, while others (Baltar) are pissing away time.My guess is that the show won't fully explain what happened to Starbuck, but instead will very ambiguously imply she is a clone (created by the Cylons from the original Starbuck's harvested eggs). They're going to leave this revelation up for us the viewer to piece together. In the end, most of the characters will die in a great battle between the Galactica fleet and Cavil Cylons; Galactica will blow up, and the survivors of the ordeal (Cylons and humans) will settle on a planet... which will become our Earth. Flash-forward to our present day, and we see in-head Six walking about a modern-day NYC -- so Ron Moore is going to imply that NYC is actually a re-creation of the city ruins we saw in the nuked out version of the "other" Earth.
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I agree with you about the explainations. The whole thing has been completely flat & has left a "was that it??" feeling. The past 2 episodes shouldve been overall dissapointing. That's a fact. But I'll still watch to get my moneys worth since I pay for the channel subscription.
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But her writing style just isn't a good fit for this kind of show. So I'm not looking forward to her work on Caprica.Her attempt at "cute-sifying" that last episode, especially the scene when Tigh and Ellen are talking over one another while Caprica Six is in duress, was cringe-inducing. That whole Whedon-esque cutespeak dialogue isn't fit for a series like BSG. It sounds quaint, contrived, immature and, harsh I know, stupid as hell. (And I loved and watched every episode of Buffy and Angel.)
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Feb 27, 2009 5:11:16 AM CST
what's this 'Six walking thru a crowded Times Square' rumour?
by boomers_lips
How'd that come about?
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Feb 27, 2009 5:15:46 AM CST
Jane Espenson's writing fits more on Gossip Girl & nu90210.
by boomers_lips
she can insert all the jokes & cute-ness she wants on those shows. I say this as a fan of her Buffy/Angel material.
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All this has been before.......
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That's one to watch.
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i no longer have any idea what the fuck is going on. nor quite frankly do i care. its become a convuluted rats tail of a mess. and i'd get more sense from the matrix sequels. blow some shit up. the first season was superb, the pegasus arc was brilliant. everything else has been kinda *meh*. sorry to sound so negative, but its true and you know it.
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and an in-head chip-Baltar, talking to different people in modern day Earth, telling them to flee the city, because they're about to be destroyed or something.
Then cut to something which makes no sense, but is fucked up imagery, like the twin towers falling.
And collectively, the viewers will go "WTF was that?" -
I agree and hate to say it. These last episodes should have waaaaaay better than what we are getting. I only pray the last three are the ones we want, and thats assuming tonights episode will follow in the same vein as the last few.
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I agree. Having seen every episode up to last weeks, I think the Cylons shouldve been kept minor characters. The show SHOULDVE been 98% militaristic & human based in the style of the Pegasus arc.
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If it is so bad then do not watch it. I am sure you have better programs that you enjoy like ER or Gossip Girl
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I just rewatched the first episodes of the original BSG and it was more entertainment than the last 2 episodes of the new BSG.
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Feb 27, 2009 6:11:55 AM CST
Semisaj: I've invested 4 (4.5? 5?) seasons worth of time
by mattinthehat
I will watch it but frankly I had hoped we'd be ramping up to something awesome in the last 3 episodes, rather than what we would appear to be getting. My hope is that they saved up their pennies by having less action and more "character development" lately so they can blow us out of the water in the final couple of episodes.
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....and does anyone seriously know what is going on with Baltar and his harem ? I just don't get it. If anyone else thinks that they can CLEARLY explain what the fuck is going on then please be my guest.....
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Feb 27, 2009 6:16:09 AM CST
just watched Richard Hatch's "BSG: The 2nd Coming" trailer.
by boomers_lips
I saw it on the YouTube and it seemed like he thought Original BSG wasn't enough like Star Wars!!! from the trailer it seemed that Hatch made the bad guys as evil as possible and the good guys (himself) as heroic as can be! I loved that all the unecessary jumping around. It coulda been a nice little show.
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Boomer is being tried for treason because she was the single swing vote that led to the civil war + Cavil trying to wipe out all the 2, 6, and 8s (with which he almost succeeded). While Athena ditched the Cylons to have her family, she didn't exactly do anything directly that would have led to the entire destruction of a model line.
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Athena shooting Natalie was neat because it made us think that SHE might be the dying leader instead of Roslin (might end up being the Admiral!). then she died. why wasn't there more fallout from that? why isn't Athena in the brig? 'shouldn't separate a mother from her child' or some nonsense. wouldnt it have been crazy if Athena had found out that Adama and Roslin lied and took her baby, and she goes to CIC and puts 2 rounds in the Admiral's chest? film the scene EXACTLY like 1st season minus a tigh eye. all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again! OR she shoots Roslin. that would've been one nutty ride. i love this show! (and yes, it has declined in quality a BIT, but its still a bag of gold.) oh, and too Frakkin much 'Frak' this season. this isn't Deadwood, that language is unbecoming of a colonial officer. p.s. if Anders had apologized to Gaeta, maybe played with his pyramid balls a bit, we might've avoided quite a bit of bloodshed. final scene of the series: Six frantically pushes through a crowded times square to get to church - the Cylon's one true god is Felix's lost leg.
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No one in between, how can we be wrong?
Sail away with me, to another world
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thanks Reg for reminding me.
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The writers ran out of ideas for him. It's the only explanation I can think of.
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As one of the people knocking this show on here on a weekly basis, when I read Wicked Jacob's analysis of the new BSG to NGE- I about fell over, It is the perfect parallel. Both shows hint at dozens of interesting things that suck you in for me, they give you a few more hints and the shows SEEM to go in a certain direction, then near the end they both veered off and ended with huge WTF moments that didnt make sense and were not true to the show or what brought people into watch them in the first place. Now in the case of NGE- they tried twice to "re-end" the show with separate movies, which also both had cool moments but also terrible non endings AGAIN! I got to watch the NGE DVD box set and movie last year and felt the same way about it as I do BSG, but It was on the tip of my tongue, and I never connected it- It's a perfect analysis of the show(s)-- Good Job wicked Jacob!
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last week, when Starbuck said "When did we get a piano player', nobody responded?
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:(( . I smell a tour-de-force acting feast for Sackhoff and Park tonight.
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I have never watched an episode of ER and have never heard of Gossip Girl ..please do tell what are they like? I'm more into shows like The Wire, Shield, Lost etc
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God I hope you are correct as I would be gutted if this show go's out with a convoluted messy whimper..it will leave a stain on the many great episodes and moments that we have had over the last 4 years....and will probably piss off all my friends who would never watch a show like this but have been hooked since I made them start watching it and then turned them into semi geeks!!
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Yeah, and I thought it was weird because I noticed it but they never brought it up again so I forgot.
its probably Daniel, her father, in her head...or something that makes really no sense at all. -
he the leader of the Harem.
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The proverbial dying leader who will lead the people to the promised land could be Adama (he's been drinking a lot lately, no?) or maybe Baltar. Heck, maybe it's one of the Final Five Cylons, and the people being led to Earth are the humanoid Cylons, not the humans.As for the final scene, maybe it ends with Six in NYC who sees it destroyed by the Cylon's latest genetic creation: a Giant Alien Squid.
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The Galactica itself, because it leads the fleet... but that might be stretching it.
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It's a hoot. Thanks to whoever above posted the heads up about it being on YouTube. It feels like a fanfilm starring actors from the original show. Catch it before Universal or somebody else demands its removal. (Delete any spaces from this link.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybIyzTO4zhU
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I hope they bring back Imperious Leader. By your command. An old dude with a hat doesn't cut it, neither does "voting". It's the Cylons for fraks sake, what would machines want with democracy, it's a ridiculous government system.
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I'm not familiar with that anime series. But there were two movies made to "re-end" that series, which were both unsatisfying, as well? Huh. After the BSG series ends, we got the The Plan and Caprica coming up... SIGH.
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Wow- you hit that on the head.
Both of the "new" BSG endings had some incredible set piece anime actions scenes (Asuka vs 7 of the new SEELE Angels) but they also made no sense and ended probably in a worse manner than the original series. Some people to this day think that the NGE creator was mentally Ill, and or was literally saying "F*ck you" to the fans. There is a great review of how bad the endgind movies are at the anime review website THEM REVIEWS.
And I agree, I'm sure the PLAN and CAPRICA will end up in the same convoluted ending stack as the two "ENDINGS" of NGE as separate movies. -
Because it's been disappointingly shitty since then. Ellen the jealous alcoholic holds no interest for me and Adama is too busy spackling Cylon spooge on Galactica stress fractures to be the badass he needs to be in the homestretch.
Here's hoping LOST doesn't suffer this same fate in Season 6.
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I meant to say NGE endings in my second sentence
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RDM said so in a podcast. Also remember that the Pythia does not mention Earth in context of the dying leader, only 'paradise' or similar. So Roslin very well may still die.
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from last week's episode, thanks to the Santa Rosa (CA) Press Democrat. I'll quote it here:
"The whole deal with Baltar and his cult giving out food and getting guns confused me. It lacked context. Turns out, in the episode's original cut, all was explained. But that cut was 11 minutes long, so it had to be trimmed for TV. Here's what I've been able to cobble together of what ended up on the editing room floor:
"In the wake of three years of war and a failed mutiny, there are no longer enough Marines on Galactica to maintain order. Sensing a riot over food distribution, the outnumbered Marines retreat from (Dogsville) and the Sons of Ares swoop in with their guns and take over the abandoned food supply. But the Baltar-less cult manages to secure a stash of food, effectively letting them be self-sufficient.
"Meanwhile, Adama and Roslin debate the merits of bringing Cylon centurions on board to provide security and patrol civilian areas. (Wow, huuuuge plot point there.) Adama's staunchly against it, even though his ship is slowly becoming assimilated with the Cylons. Cue back to what aired -- Baltar and his crew try to take over food distribution, but again the Sons of Ares step in -- like any good mob, they maintain an iron grip on their racket. So Baltar approaches Adama and Roslin asking for guns so his group can fend off the Sons of Ares. Effectively, the question for Adama is, allow a criminal gang to control the food supply, or allow Baltar's crazy cultists to control it. And Baltar's group, now armed to the teeth, would also serve as a civilian security force, which Adama figures is better than using centurions. In the end, the Baltar's militia is the lesser of two evils.
"That would have been nice to know. Instead, we got repetitive scenes of Adama looking pained as he examined Galactica's structural failures. And that ridiculous "he loves you more" scene with Caprica Six losing her Cy-baby. For the life of me, I don't know why they'd cut such a critical plot development. With so few episodes left, each scene should be moving the series forward, showing the fleet's increasingly desperate situation. I expect a lot from this show because it's consistently delivered at a high level. This was no time to drop the ball." -
That's a huge question in my mind.
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They cut the wrong stuff out! No wonder the episode sucked.
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Does anyone know what happened to the Sci-Fi website's weekly replay? Whenever I've been unable to catch a Friday episode, I've always watched it later via their online stream.Wha' happened?!(Second question: do I even want to see last week's episode?)
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I'm inclined to agree with your post at 04:56:23 AM. And unfortunately, knowing that's probably how the rest of this is going to play out does not sit well with me right now.
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Maybe the In-heads want a Baltar militia because the repopulation of the human/cylon race requires a few men and a multitude of young, healthy women. Baltar's got his own potential baby farm right there. They just need to live to the end, and let everyone else kill each other.
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I hate to say so, but you can do without seeing last week's episode. The recap before tonight's show is the merciful way of getting those plot points.
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I was afraid of that.
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Carlos Ross Review of END OF EVANGELION- Sounds alot like the END OF BSG- enjoy....
Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion
Synopsis
The end of the Neon Genesis Evangelion left many questions as to the fate of NERV, the Children, the Angels, and many other plot factors unanswered, unexplained, or otherwise hanging. To answer a legion of now befuddled Evangelion fans, Gainax remade the ending into a two-part movie known as Death and Rebirth which was to supersede episodes 25 and 26 of the television series, which then led to this movie, Death and Rebirth itself being recreated into part one of The End of Evangelion. It begins much in the same fashion, with the final Angel already having been defeated, and the current enemy switching to humanity itself as SEELE unleashes its own plan for the Evas and NERV...and indeed for the entire human race. What role will Shinji play in this ever-tense situation, as NERV gets chewed to pieces by SEELE's crack commandoes? Will Gendo's plan swallow up all of humanity? Will Hideaki Anno ever figure out how to end an anime? These questions and more will be answered in what looks to be the final installment of Evangelion. But at what price?
Review
Oh boy. It took almost a month to figure out the thoughts in my head surrounding this. As a once sworn Evangelion fan who, admittedly, could not afford to finish the series on his own, I'd been spoiled on the end for a long time, but had managed to hold off on the movies until I thought I was ready. But even the most ardent Eva-head couldn't be prepared for this.
I don't know whether to call this Anno's masterwork...or his downfall. Indeed the first half of the anime (once you get past a VERY disturbing scene with Shinji which we refuse to get into detail about) becomes what everyone seems to love about Evangelion, with suspenseful, well-directed drama scenes interspersed with enthralling, violent, edge-of-the-seat Eva action, with enough pseudo-Christian imagery to make a high school English teacher salivate. That NERV would so quickly fall to SEELE's commandoes does seem a BIT on the sloppy side, but then, that's forgivable (I guess) seeing as NERV has concentrated on fighting Angels rather than an internal conflict against fellow humans. As Shinji, in the final form of EVA-01 rises above the ruins of NERV and into the screen like a demon rising out of the bowels of Hell itself, one wonders if Gainax- no, Hideaki Anno had redeemed himself in the audience's eyes for the end of the TV series.
End it there, and you have the makings of a classic.
But Anno made a crucial error. The second half of the movie ... is so incoherent and obtuse that it completely loses the mainstream audience (and in fact, virtually any audience) this series has attracted before. It goes beyond art film...and beyond anime. And in doing so, it goes beyond the audience's capability to understand and be entertained, which defeats the purpose of something labeled as entertainment. With a melange of still images that put MTV commercials to shame and pans of movie theaters (I guess this was the audience participation moment of Eva?) and street-scenes ... (live-action, mind you!) Anno's directing went from masterful action and suspense, to long moments of budget-less, animation-less anime. What is anime without animation? And then, the bizarre, anticlimactic ending, which was as utterly insane as the end of the television series, just left me with a bad feeling in my gut that required several episodes of Slayers TRY to exorcise. Part Two of The End of Evangelion was simply the longest half-hour I'd ever spent watching anime. Period. I figure that Anno was attempting to reach out to the audience with his philosophy through Rei, as she engulfed the Earth (something reminiscent of Akira but not exactly the same) and left Shinji to decide its fate. (And Shinji's decision ... well, what would happen if you gave the fate of the world to some withdrawn, spineless little twit that wants nothing to do with the rest of humankind? Gee, I wonder ...) It genuinely hurt to watch. But then, so has this entire series. It did, in a sense, make me think about life in general ... somehow. But in the end, The End of Evangelion was an oddly fitting capper to an absorbing, startling, and very unconventional television series. Some say you either love Eva or you hate it. I have to make the exception here ... since I feel both. I loved the first half, and HATED the ending!
It's not a matter of this reviewer's failure to understand the ending to this movie. I understand this movie plenty. Rather, it's a matter of rejecting everything this movie (and this series) has been trying to indoctrinate into the viewer as hollow, soulless, hypocritical, and false, nothing more than the ravings of a mad, nihilistic creator, a middle finger at all the fans while cashing in on the success of the franchise. It's a marvelous bait-and-switch and a stunning success of marketing, but a terrible, terrible work of film that is only impressive if you consider stuff like Blair Witch Project to be serious cinema.
What could've been Anno's masterwork became a repeat of his experiment in the end of the TV series: something that the TV series did not logically lead to, and something that went beyond the grasp of even intelligent audiences. (Gunbuster and His and Her Circumstances are the best of Gainax's work in my opinion.)
I still recommend that any serious fan of Evangelion should watch this and decide for themselves.
Personally? If I read another e-mail asking me to watch this movie over again, there's going to be some hurting going on, and it's not going to be *my* head.
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There's two ways they can go: continue the cycle, or break the cycle (and there are hints this may occur; more below). If they continue the cycle, they'll settle on a "Kobol" with the cylons as a "13th tribe" but dominated by Baltar and his harem (the new 'gods'). After x number of years, the cylons will leave, etc etc.
If they choose to break the cycle, then the resulting society will be amalgamated, with Hera as the ideal and one remaining society which will never splinter (because the splintering seems to lead to the destruction). Lee's comment about having representation by ship rather than colony may point in this direction. -
One TBer from last week said it best by rating the episode "one Adama hug out of five."My particular issue was that after revealing the huge epic conflict between Cavil and Ellen/Final Fivers, we got "As Galactica Turns" (i.e. a soap opera) or something of the sort.
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It covers everything pretty much
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Feb 27, 2009 9:45:49 AM CST
Heroes, Galactica and Sarah Connor... all hitting slumps now...
by prof. pop-cult
I watch these shows, and all three are going through story doldrums in the second half of their current seasons. What's up with that? Maybe it has something to do with the theme of "endings": One show is ending, another is probably going to be canceled, and the last is a show many don't want to see renewed again. (I'll assume most everyone here knows which is which.)
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"one Adama hug out of five." -- Yeah, I've seen that TBer post that a couple of times. Although, I'm not sure her signature gimmick is catching on the way she hoped. Heh.I'll check out the EW and Onion AV Club recaps. They're usually pretty spot on. In the meantime, I've got to figure out how I'm going to see this week's episode as I'll be hitting the town tonight.
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I think I saw a link at Hulu for last weeks ep. There was even one for 'watch at SciFi.com' though I can't attest to it's workability.
And no, you don't want to watch last week's ep. I waited days, and after seeing it, thought "there is an hour I'd like back please." -
The previous episode rushed a whole lot of exposition. And while I understand that some people might not have enjoyed it, I didn't mind it because of two reasons: 1) I do want explanations, and 2) I figured with so few episodes remaining the powers that be didn't have any choice but to rush it. Of course, if I had known last week's episode was going to be such a waste I would've liked the previous episode less because they could stretched the exposition into it. Instead of having two episodes that were Good or worse and Meh or worse, they could've had two Good episodes in a row by incorporating them together.
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Is there any reference that Kobol is an actual planet?? Glactica the ship figures prominently in the show. "This has all happened before" - what if Kobol is a previous ship and the 13 tribes split off from it to populate......... yada yada yada. The show seems to be going this route again and Cylons and Humans are debating going their separate ways from Galactica. To break the cycle, they have to stick it out together, mate like rabbits and finally have a blended civilization of cylons/humans.
Last - as Galactica figures so prominently and is now falling apart - could it be the "dieing leader" -
It's real, and it's fabulous
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From reading that post, it's pretty clear that either they don't have a clue how to cut a show together, OR, that whole plot line is a red-herring, and NOTHING will be done with it in the next 3 episodes. So they just cut it, rather than give the viewers false hope that something cool might happen.
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That's the logical conclusion, based on what we know. We know that her eggs were harvested by the Cylons, and she was implanted with something. (Gee, how come Starbuck never mentioned this to anyone, or had Cottle examine her?)So, anyway, this device implanted in her probably helped to facilitate the downloading of her memories to a cloned body.So did Starbuck download to a resurrection ship? I'm theorizing no. The Cylons made one lifeless clone of her, and put it into a Viper that they restored from wreckage parts. So this Viper served as a de facto resurrection ship.So when the original Starbuck and her Viper blew up, the device implanted in her "uploaded" her memories across the galaxy (probably by way of a hidden Cylon technology, like a satellite or probe), and transmitted her essence to the restored Viper, which received her memories and downloaded them into the lifeless Starbuck clone.So where did the Cylons put this restored Viper and the Starbuck clone? Near Earth. (Specifically, OUR Earth, not the nuked planet also called Earth).In other words, there's a faction of Cylons who found a habitable planet and decided to manipulate things so that the human fleet would be led to it. Cavil may be in on this plan -- or it may have been his idea.So what's the plan then? It's to lead the humans to this habitable planet that they think is Earth, lead them into a trap, and then destroy them once and for all. Things sort of changed in this evil plan when the Cylon civil war erupted, but the plan is still going forward with the Cavil-led Cylons now planning to also attack the rebel Cylons led by Caprica Six.This will all lead to the big battle that I described above, where the Galactica is destroyed, and most of the major characters are killed off. The human and humanoid Cylon survivors will escape to this habitable planet that clone Starbuck found. They will settle this planet and decide to name it Earth. Flash forward to our present-day and we see Six walking in NYC. The Brooklyn Bridge and most of NYC is actually a re-creation of the destroyed city we saw in the nuked Earth. (So, folks, in the BSG mythology, our Earth is actually "Earth 2".)As for who survives to settle on Earth 2, my guesses: Helo, Hera, Boomer*, Hot Dog and his bastard kid. Everybody else is toast, including the Final Five. * - Athena will die, and Boomer will replace her (perhaps without Helo's knowledge; Athena may tell Boomer to do this). The End.
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It has become f*cking Law & Order: Space! Good thing there are only 3 left as I am tempted to stop watching like I did X-Files last 2 seasons and like I wanted to when Buffy become a soap opera for it's remaining two seasons. TV shows should all begin with an end plan so they don't go off course.
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that does make a lot more sense
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I was looking for a story on how BSG's ratings were up 53% more due to DVR use, followed by Burn Notice's 37% and Heroes + 90210's %35% bumpups, when you take into account time-shifting. I have unwavering faith in RDM and David Eick to end this show with a flourish. There have been a hell of a lot more 33's in terms of top-notch quality than Black Markets or Deadlock's.
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So the final scene could be Six in her red dress walking through NYC. People are walking around her, not minding or acknowledging her at all. We gradually wonder if she's really there or is in-head. (A character is saying something in a voice-over throughout all of this.)Six walks through the crowd towards the camera, and she starts to look directly at US. She stops right up close to us, looks right at us in the eyes, with a sly smile. We ask: if she's in-head... is she in OUR HEADS? Cut to black. The End.
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they would have been better off stretching the episode before last into it's next episode. It would have been much better than the shit we got last week which was utterly pointless.
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Never have I seen a show dying of its own overwrought weight in such desperate, masochistic fashion. It's like the creative team, instead of saying "We've got limited time, lets's make a tight, cohesive run-up to the finale" said instead "How can we fill the time and confuse the mythology of the show so much that no amount of analysis by viewers will be able to pin down what they just watched?"
And it's the highly vaunted character interaction of the show where they've committed the most egregious offenses.
*Roslin disengaging from her duties when the fleet needed her support more than ever, staying on the sidelines just long enough to allow the Gaeta/Zarek revolution. When she was needed back in the picture as a plot device, boom, she's back and suddenly she's her old self. No memory of hitting bottom and the lack of lasting repercussions of the "revolt" devalue its occurrence to the point of irrelevance anyway. But, hey, the Gaeta actor got his top billed arc for once and he got to scratch a stump on air. Kudos!
*How about arbitrarily getting rid of Dee and soon (I'm assuming) Anders? Ah yes, everything will fall into place for the writers to be able to wallow in Lee/Starbuck again and drag us through that revolting mire of crap.
*The final five, or first five or six, or whatever they are, were the real jump the shark moment for the show. "Let's pick random characters (but no major ones please!) and elevate them to a new story arc, invalidating much back story and removing or making nonsensical the drama from many previous episodes." For instance, why in the heck were the Cylons always trying to exterminate the fleet when their precious and improbably placed cousins/creators/whatevers were on those ships? (Remember way back when Cylon treachery and Human survival was the paradigm on the show? Ah memories!)
*I have to point out the "vote" whether to say or leave the fleet. Another example of "throw some crap at the wall" storytelling. "Hey, let's have six get attacked so we can have them spooked so we can have a vote so we can create stress for TighSix so we can get rid of the baby so Hera can be 'important' again!" Brilliant! What about chief's baby? "No problem! We already fixed that by making Callie a posthumous cheat!"
*Oh and how about that vote? Chief's vote to leave is perhaps the most contrived and unbelievable random turn, purely to force a plot point, that a character has ever taken on the show. And that is saying a LOT. And yes, I've read the fan rationalizations for his actions. Sorry, Skippy. No dice.
*Adama giving Baltar's hippie cult military rifles right out of the armory is almost as bad! No tortured logic could explain why the Baltar character has the status he enjoys on the show OR how the real life writers of his arc thought his last two years of activity would be in the least bit entertaining for the viewers!
Naturally, I will continue to watch the show because I entirely love so many episodes and moments in the series and still respect how Moore was able to occasionally show us a level of sci-fi drama never before produced on television. But, sadly, the epitaph for BSG will be one of mixed feelings. Never has something so fine come apart so utterly and obviously. -
Where in hell does all this Six in NYC come from? An interview, a screenshot, what!?!?!?!?
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That would be a twist.
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thanks for finding that episode info, you're an info gathering machine. to bad they didn't air that episode, it would have been so much better then that mush that was served up last week. Anybody else think tonight's episode will be heading down the same road?
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Really loved it, but this last season... All it is to me is Adama looking around, tired and angry; and Starbuck sitting on her ass, tired and angry; and some focus on things that don't need to have so much of it. I miss the epic feel of the previous seasons. Have the writers given up or something?
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Maybe it's because when I watched it I did not have the notion implanted in my head that it would be the "end-all be-all epic anime FTW". I just sat back and let it happen. I mean, the entire show is more about Shinji and his struggle to reconcile his feelings about his father, his own weakness, and the burden of having the fate of the entire human race on his shoulders. In fact, I LOVED the final two episodes of the TV series, and I'm not really sure what is so confusing about them. Yes, I realize that if you were watching the show because it has giant robots and all you wanted was giant robot fighting, then you were watching the wrong show. If you want epic fuckall giant robot battles, GAINAX did a little show last year called TENGEN TOPPA GURREN LAGANN. Now *THAT* is the end-all be-all of giant mecha fighting anime.
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How can Starbuck be a clone? She is covered in tattoos. Tattoos would not clone. Now even saying by some (TV) miracle the tattoos cloned with her she has had new tattoos since the episode where her eggs were harvested so those tattoos couldn't possibly be on the new clone.
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I'm thinking that if they cut all that really interesting Centurion shit out in favor of Adama gently caressing his ships ribcage, then that gives all the more credence to the notion that "Galactica" itself is actually the "dying leader". It makes a buttload of sense in the context of these last 3-4 episodes. Not what I would have expected/hoped for like 8 years ago when this show started, but meh. Whattya gonna do. Galactica = dying leader means that the final 3 hours will have much the epic space battles, and that will make my eyeballs happy, if maybe not my brainstem.
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2 episodes ago this show was the best thing on TV, now it's "dying of its own overwrought weight" for example> Erm, Heroes, Sarah Connor Chronicles and Lost are better examples of dying shows. Fuck, there are some fickle bastards on here.
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If they cloned Gaeta, he'd be missing a leg; ditto Tigh's eye
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Actually, the idea of the Cylons hunting down the fleet, and then their occupation of New Caprica, makes WORLDS more sense after the Ellen/John(Cavil) conversation... Cavil put the F5 out into the human world so they could experience all the shitty shit that humans have to go through on a daily basis, and assumed they would all be killed during or shortly after the 12 colonies were destroyed. When he realized that every goddamn one managed to survive the attacks, he stepped up his game to try to kill them SO THEY WOULD RESURRECT and regain all their old memories and (in Cavil's mind) PRAISE him for opening their eyes to how shitty humans are. Too bad the whole thing backfired, he couldn't kill them, so he decided to get his jollies off by landing on New Caprica and torturing the shit out of them all (he's got some serious pent-up rage). Then, before he gets the opportunity to give them all the final blow, Galactica pops in to save the day. Then the Rez Hub gets knocked out and now he's scrambling, pissed off and unsure of what move to make next. He doesn't want to die, but he wants "justice" (from his POV) for the atrocity of putting his beautiful biomechanical brain into some gross, wet, floppy human frame. ANNNDDD... that's about where we left off.
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How is Lost dying? Isn't saying that the same as saying BSG is dying? I mean, 6 badass episodes in a row and then one weak one and all the sudden "it's crap now". Apply that to whichever show you like. Don't watch SCC, but I gave Heroes like.. 8 REALLY REALLY REALLY fucking bad episodes in a row before I said "Ok. It's dead. Fuck it." BSG doesn't even have that many left and I guaran-fucking-tee that Lost will go strong as balls from next week until the season finale. Jeremy Bentham will be the absolute lowpoint of the season. Mark my words.
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Transporter malfunction
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I like your prediction. One thing though, why is the wreckage of Starbuck's Viper (and Starbuck's corpse) on the nuked earth?
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Seriously, it doesn't matter. They're never going to address the Dying Leader thing. Why? Because it's a religious prophecy, and just like Nostradamus and 2012 and Revelations, you could take figurative elements of their words and fit them into all sorts of situations. BSG is a science fiction show in which weird shit happens and religion tries to interpret it and they never, ever say which side was right. It almost always presents every religious moment as being able to be interpreted as the hand of god or coincidence. This show is not a puzzle. If you're watching BSG just to piece together some kind of logical framework I feel sorry for you.
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Well said! I love this show, but I can't think of a single point you've made that hasn't bugged me on some level in this final season. Last week's episode in particular shook my faith in the writers' confidence in their own end-game. Although I must say - the whole thing with Adama and the ship's hull (/Tyrol) I find not only riveting, but consequential to the end of the show. It is the ultimate manifestation of the theme - "we are becoming Cylons, the Cylons are becoming us." (Whatever that means, right?)
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The In-Heads obviously want people to live -- they forewarned the final five on Earth, in-head Baltar helped motivate the detente that lasted all of 45 minutes screentime, and it was an In-Head Leoben that led Starbuck into Maelstrom.
And from there, Starbuck goes to Earth and by those means is able to lead BSG there ... as a warning. I think the In-Heads don't want what happened before to happen again, so they're working to make sure it doesn't. -
I haven't even watched the Jeremy Bentham episode yet, but I gave up as soon as Jack and co. managed to get back to the island on a magic plane trip. And Time Travel? I just wish that show had ended with them getting off the island.
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Chris Zatta, who wrote this past Monday's episode 'Cold Wars', which set a series low in 18-49 ratings viewership. Zatta said via his Twitter account there's more where his fate came from.
Here's the 411: http://tinyurl.com/b9tf9j -
From seasons 3 and 1, respectively.
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You can watch Deadlock right now at Amazon On Demand for $1.99. Just Google "Amazon video on demand" and type in "Battlestar Galactica Deadlock". BTW every episode from Season 4 and 4.5 is available for viewing.Not sure when they will make tonight's episode avaiable so you might want to keep checking in over there.
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Umm, we didnt need ROBOTS PUNCHIN' to make the show cool- we needed a proper ending- which the NGE fialed at in the series so they TREID TWO TIMES TO CORRECT IT. And failed two times. What we got was self important tripe that neither explained or entertained- it was just bad.
But it is interesting that the one person you hear from that likes the end of NGE also likes the weak direction of the end of BSG.... I also bet you love Matrix 3 too. -
No that you mention it, IMHO Baltar's "relationship" with In-Head Six goes much deeper and is stronger than with Caprica Six.I guess you could say that he's spent more quality time with the In-Head.
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http://www.sidereel.com/Battlestar_Galactica
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That show's ending was great, and I don't give a damn about any of those whiners who wanted 'splosions instead of a psychological evaluation of the characters. Even with last week's craptacular episode, season 4.5 is turning out great.
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Link I posted prior - http://www.sidereel.com/Battle star_Galactica- doesn't work.Go to sidereel.com, click on TV Shows, go to TV category and click sci fi where you will see BSG under "Popular." Click there, then click Deadlock and that'll get you the link to Amazon.
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Boomer tried to kill all the Leobens, Sixes, and 8s. ALL of them. No resurrection. That's mass genocide. Athena has turned sides and made an alliance w/ Galactica, but so have the 2s, 6s, and 8s, so there's no reason to put her on trial. Athena has killed her own kind, but now that point is moot since there is an alliance.
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"Katee is not sexy" -- OK, that's just crazy.
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"Daniel Graystone invented the CYLON and he also 'resurrected' his dead daughter Zoe as the first Skinjob! Funny how not one character ever mentions that fact."-- First, it may be that Graystone has been mentioned. He may be the Old Hybrid, he may be the missing #7 model. Also, we don't know if Graystone's involvement or the extent of his involvement in creating ColonialCenurions and Colonial Skinjobs is known to the general public (thus, there would be no reason for anyone in the show to mention him). Oh yeah, the show isn't over yet, either!
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"Where in hell does all this Six in NYC come from?" -- See, e.g., http://tinyurl.com/87ut9t
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There's no confirmation that Adama's sister was resurrected. Only Zoe Graystone is confirmed to have been resurrected as Zoe-R. Early indicators suggest that Joeseph Adama becomes disgusted with Daniel Graystone and withdraws his daughter from Graystone's Cylon resurrection program.
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Zoe Graystone IS A CYLON. She is the first and only known Caprican Skinjob.
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A) BSG is not over yet, and if you actually read my posts you would see that I'm not in love with direction it's taking (it is SO far from what I envisioned in S1), but I am tolerant of it and will wait to see how it ACTUALLY ENDS. Maybe I'm just not as big a snob and have that unique ability to watch something and enjoy it for what it IS, not what I HOPED it would be. If the only thing that makes you happy is when the show ends exactly how YOU wanted it to, then you're going to be disappointed all your life by a great variety of things. B) NGE is an incredibly surrealistic and interpretive work - I think that most would agree that you get out of it what you put into it. Sure, Anno went a little batshit crazy towards the end, but maybe I like and am entertained by batshit crazy introspective works that force you to look deep within your soul and find commonality with the psychological journey of the main character. Maybe it was because I watched it on acid. I can't be sure. C) Fuck you AND Matrix 3. =D
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In response to questions about how Graystone could have made Cylons when Cylons have been around for thousands of years, here is a history of Cylons:
#1. Kobol Skinjob Cylons: created over 4,000 years ago by Kobol Humans (who were expelled from Kobol for creating them). The 13th tribe of Kobol. Later settled on Earth to create the second and third types of Cylons. All the Cylons who were expelled are dead.
#2. Earth Centurion Cylons: created by Skinjob Cylons living on Earth (probably NOT created by Ellen, Tigh, Tory, Anders, and Tyrol). It is unknown as to exactly WHEN they were created. All the Earth Centurion Cylons are Dead.
#3. The Final Five: Born *as* Skinjobs on Earth about 2000 years ago; Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, Anders, and Ellen. Resurrected after Earth's destruction. Traveled to Earth and helped Colonial Centurions (#5 type) create Colonial Skinjobs (#8 type Cylons- Cavil, Leoben, D'anna, Doral, Simon, Caprica Six, Daniel, Boomer/Athena). Killed by Cavil, who re-resurrected them, erased their memories and introduced them into the fleet. Of these Five, Ellen died, was re-re-resurected.
#4. Caprica Skinjob Cylons: Created by Daniel Greystone and his daughter Zoe about 50 years ago (Zoe's friend insists that the One True God gave Zoe the knowledge to create life). Created after Earth was destroyed, but before the Final Five arrived on Earth, and before the Colonial Centurions (#5). As far as we know, the only Caprican Cylon is Zoe-R, a replication of Zoe Graystone. As the series hasn't even aired yet, much less finished, there is much left to learn, and it may well be that other Caprican Cylons exist.
#5. Colonial Centurions: Created by Daniel Graystone (and possibly others)about 50 years ago. Not much is known about their origin. These Centurions roughly resembled Earth Centurions (#2), and presumably were the first *Cylons* to worship the One True God (though there were Capricans who worshipped a One True God. Also, Ellen says that belief in the One True God came from Centurions, but she may have been referring to Earth Centurions, or both Earth and Colonial Centurions). These models evolved into the current Centurions, Raiders, and Heavy Raiders most commonly seen in fights with Galactica, Pegasus, and their crews.
#6. THE Hybrid/The Old Hybrid: Origin and date of origin unknown. Likely created by Colonial Centurions, but may be another Daniel Graystone creation. Might be the One True God. Might be Daniel Graystone.
#7. Ship Hybrids: Created by Colonial Centurions after the creation of the Old Hybrid, but before Colonial Skinjobs (#8). Function as the brain of the ships. These cylons speak in jibberish that often proves prophetic.
#8. Colonial Skinjobs: Created about forty years ago by the Final Five for the Colonial Centurions. Cavil, Leoben, D'anna, Doral, Simon, Caprica Six, Daniel, and Boomer/Athena. Colonial Centurions as well as Cavil helped create Colonial Skinjobs, though what degree of influence they had in helping the Final Five in creating this type is uncertain. Of the Colonial Skinjobs, the "Daniel" model is presumably dead and destroyed (though this model might actually be a cylon version of Daniel Graystone, or possibly Starbuck, or Starbuck's father, or Zak Adama).
#9. Human/Colonial Skinjob Hybrid- Hera. Born of Helo (human) and Athena (Colonial Skinjob).
#10. Final Five/Colonial Skinjob Hybrid- Tigh and Caprica Six's unborn child. Died in the womb. -
So... You DON'T like the time travel...? What show have you been watching for 3 seasons, the "Will-Kate-sleep-with _____" show? Cuz *that* is the show that sucks balls. I'm done with you.
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you have summed up half the talkbackers on here. And seeing as I'm "done with", I'm not going to bother explaining.
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Thanks buddy, I appreciate it. I give you 5 out of 5 Adama Hugs!
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The show I'm watching is the one with the Island that brings people back to life, has a semi-sentient cloud of black smoke that kills people, and where dark matter, mirror universes, electromagnetic fields and time travel are all paramount to the endgame of a story driven by the characters. I'm not saying it's perfect, but if you're turned off by the introduction of time travel then how exactly did you get this far?
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Im putting my money on the fact that starbuck is everyones in head. i cant explain her ship but if in heads are refered to as ghosts, demons, angels and we all know that starbuck in the original series became an angel, then the only answer is that she is an in head that everyone can see. its a stretch but then again, what isnt a stretch anymore?
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Don't worry about ol' DeckardBladeRunner. He doesn't even watch the show. Apparently, he reads BSG Wikipedia summaries and then drops into Talkback to trash the show and call all of us sheep.
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Obviously, enjoyment of anything is tantamount to "blind faith" and sheepism. If only we could all be so jaded as to hate everything we see... *le sigh*
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... but says everything will be explained later in a comic book.
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Adama, Ellen, Laura, and Tigh are sitting in the mess hall. In walks Cavil, Boomer, Six, and of all people, Baltar. The Galacticas rise to confront them but before they can draw weapons, Cavil raises his hands and says that he is only here to talk. Adama asks how he got on Galactica in the first place. He explains that Tyrol created a "path".
They all sit down and Adama asks Cavil what he wants. They eye each other warily. Cavil says that all will be explained but he waiting for others to join them.
The camera recedes and we see a piano in the corner. The melody playing is too faint to make out. Someone is singing.(If you put on closed captioning at this point you get the quarter note signature, some strange symbols and the words "world", "going", and "born")
Cut to outside Galactica. A Raptor is approaching the shuttle bay. As we get closer we see it is being flown by Starbuck. She asks to for permission to land. We see a hand on the back of the pilot's seat but we can't see who it belongs to.
Starbuck enters the bay but she is having trouble with her guidance systems. She tries to land but can't quite set down.
Cut back to the mess hall.
They are all still sitting around the table. The music is more pronounced but we still can't make out the melody, however, we can now hear some of the words-"room", "Smile", and "waiting".
Cut back to the shuttle bay. Kara has finally landed. She steps out of the Raptor, looks around and says, "It's Ok. C'mon."
Camera pans to the hatch. Out steps D'Anna.
Cut back to the table. Ellen asks,"How long do we have to wait, John?" As if in answer to her question, the hatch behind her opens. John smiles. Kara and D'Anna enter. They are smiling.
The music swells. We can hear the melody and make out the words..."..strangers, waiting, up and down the boulevard, their shadows searching in the night..."
Kara and D'Anna sit. Everyone smiles as if they know what is going to happen. The music swells more-"..paying anything to roll the dice just one more time.."
Cut to black-silence. Screen is black and dead like the cable has gone out. 33 seconds later the credits roll. -
When Anders was lying the hospital bed and looking at the other 4 and Starbuck, Starbuck appeared to have the same glow emanating from her as the others. I took that to mean that she is one of them. No other humans were viewed, but it appeared that the glowing was purposeful to suggest her being as important as the others.
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Other than the ever bulbous pear shaped chief.
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Teddy of my dreams.
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Wow and they laid that piece of plot right out there for all to see.
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Either her dad, or Daniel himself, who went haywire. :)
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Wow David Lazarus Long, you sure showed me. Throwing out the "F" word and letting us know how hip you are for doing acid while watching anime.
Yes I'm pretty sure you are a big Matrix 3 fan, you can tell by how easy it is to get a rise out of you! But rest assured, Im sure BSG will out-do NGE and Matrix 3 for ending on a confusing/lame ending.
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It's impossible to say what 'clues' from earlier episodes to incorporate. Was Roslin burning of the Pythia symbolic of TPTB eschewing the previous comments regarding it, or will it still come in to play? How do we take the Opera House? Does the fate of the Lords of Kobol even matter? Should we care about what In-Head Six said to Baltar back in the first season? Do we ignore the first two seasons entirely? Etc.
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Assuming your explanation to me is correct, it only makes me revert back to another problem I've mentioned numerous times before. If the five were not purposely protected and placed in safe areas during the initial attack, their independant survival is statistically almost impossible. Fifty thousand survivors out of billions and all five of them are in that group out of pure luck? Hard to stomach. That's without even bringing up the fact that a famous Pyramid player, a political advisor, a high ranking military officer and a chief engineer on one of the Colonial fleet's former flagships would *have* to have credible and known backstories (including aging and parentage) in order to reach their station in life. They couldn't just knock on a door with a resume in hand and say, "Hello, I'm going to be your new attache'!"
The alternative to saying it was pure luck that they survived is that they were protected and/or guided to safety in some way by some Cylon influence. This fails logically to an even worse degree because if they were preserved by the Cylons, why did the Cylons spend several seasons trying to destroy the fleet? To accept this premise is to castrate the drama from all the series's best episodes.
In my humble opinion, choosing characters that we already had a history for as the last few Cylons was a lazy way out for the writers who wanted to pump up the drama on the Cylon side with something more interesting than a couple more random Dorals. It was also the beginning of the end of this show making any kind of sense. -
Feb 27, 2009 2:44:31 PM CST
Espenson: 'more will be explained in the upcoming comc book."
by boomers_lips
I am not even kidding. jane said thatban upcoming coming book by a BSG writer will explain things like: Who was Pythia and how she knew about Cylons, Dying Leader, etc.
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Didn't they talk about Daniel in terms as being a little "tetched in the head" but rather brilliant? I thought it was a neat coincidence that the "I'm a PC" actor showed up that ep as the neurosurgeon who acted a little damaged. That way they can make their little slam on Windows-PCs by presenting their Cylon nature.
And I really don't care about skinjobs in the Caprica series. Creating the new Centurions and even getting into Cylon War I would be cool. And probably the only way I'd watch the show. The opening sequence a few shows back with Old school base-ships, raiders and centurions was AWESOME!! -
And that is whatever the In-Heads are made sure that the Final Five lived as long as they did.
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Glad to oblige, good sir.Happy viewing!
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Yes, there have been moments (small as they were) when I thought maybe it was going down the wrong road. There were some less than up to par quality episodes. There were slow ones, fast ones (hospital bed exposition compressed like a jpg on a web page from 1997 anyone?) and confusing ones. There were modern music references that scared the living crap out of me. There were the deaths of beloved characters. But I'll be damned if BSG isn't still close to the best thing I've seen on TV, ever. Take as cue from David Lazarus Long (who much like his namesake is obviously wise beyond his known years) and be grateful that we have a BSG to bitch and moan about at ALL. If it wasn't for this show, what would we have to look forward to other than Lost? More from the creative team that brought us Andromeda? Another season of spin-off Stargate characters running around the same Canadian forest for 4 seasons? How about another period fantasy starring Kevin Sorbo? Or perhaps a series spin-off of MANSQUITO! I'm not saying love it or leave it, but damnnitt!! Love it or leave it, but if you're going to sit this one out at least enjoy it. It's honestly the best we've got right now, Lost aside.
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Actually, that's what everyone got right off the bat. Where have you been? Oh well, despite the appeal of linking Starbuck and Daniel, RDM has confirmed that "Daniel" is a character from Carprica (most likely, #7 is Daniel Graystone). RDM said he DID NOT WANT to have people guessing who Daniel was. Oh well. I think it is highly unlikely that Starbuck is Daniel. I doubt we'll get too much more on Daniel at all.
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starring Kevin Sorbo?" I'm listening....j/k
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I thought Caprica took place before the First Cylon War? 7/Daniel wasn't created until after the armistice.
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Sorbo always seemed to be trying VERY hard. Maybe his work ethic would better serve something behind the scenes.
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HornorSilk- Thanks, I agree we wont get answers- Ill tag back to NGE- what were the angels, why did they come in the first place, what role did Seele Have in their coming? etc etc. We got water colors and no animation. Now we are guessing about who is "Daniel"? Who CARES?!? I think a tremendously weak ending that WILL TRY TO FORCE YOU TO WATCH CAPRICA will be coming- remember this is the SCIFI network that sucks to the 9th circle of Hell- they are going to try to milk this for all it is worth- just like splitting season up into halves. And a COMIC BOOK? will explain it? Oh boy...
Gboybama- Your explanation of the final five is on track- the whole thing shit on the prior first two seasons and was cheap writing to "SURPRISE" the viewer. Now we are trying to shoe horn all of that back in, it makes no sense and robs the villains of their villainy and the main characters of their motivations. Are there any humans left on the whow now? Sheesh, days of our Cylons indeed. -
Daniel Graystone cannot be Daniel 7. And if we're wrong it better not involve time travel.
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I dunno man. That seems like too much of a narrative catch-all explanation. At the very least, it's total fanfic style rationalization with no basis in the actual show. We have no canon explanation for what the "in heads" are whatsoever, much less that they are in any kind of communication with each other and could orchestrate the kind of coordinated maneuver you suggest. In fact, they could be anything from a visual representation of a character's internal dialogue to a sentient spirit to an implanted memory pattern to a technological transmission from the mothership. We have no clue.
Personally, I have always simply enjoyed them for entertainment value and assumed they had no more independant identity than the similar style conversations with "apparitions" on Six Feet Under. In the end, on that show, it was apparent that the "vision" was nothing more than a reflection of the person's own thoughts/hopes/fears. They were not ghosts in the literal sense.
And yes, I'm throwing out the much discussed example of Baltar being led around like a puppet that one time. I feel like the writers have abandoned that precedent anyway, since it was probably a bad idea and would prove impossible to explain.
Personally, my money's on them not explaining the phenomena whatsoever and then patting themselves on the back for being so creatively ambiguous.
That being said, I agree with gotlik that I'd rather live in a world with this show than one without. If you're over 30, approaching 40 like me or older, you know what it's like to live in a world totally lacking in quality sci-fi entertainment. -
Gboybama- at least with the magic of DVD's we can watch the ones we like, and just end the show when we want. I'll choose to end it at the end of S2- the old treacherous evil Cylons win - the end.
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In the last episode when the Cylons on Gallactica were voting... to leave the fleet, or not... was the 8... that voted to leave the fleet - Athena? If it was I find that strange and confusing. If it was just another 8 then... that's fine. Does anyone know the answer to that? Herc? Chrth? Mr. Nice Gaius?
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to the person who wasn't sure what it was. The trailer was a pitch that Richard Hatch "Tom Zarek" made to FOX in the 90's. He paid for the whole thing, the whole thing was his idea (notice he is in every scene) as a continuation of the original BSG. Ultimately nothing ever came of it and it was basically money down the drain for Richard Hatch.
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Comic books are for minutiae. An example of this is Pythia. This character/detail has no real legitimate weight to the overall story as we know it. Therefore, don't worry about it; Pythia and the comic books are not important. I repeat: they are for minutiae and uber-Galactica nerds that I would just assume get a life.As for Daniel, I think far too much is being read into him. Although the significance of the name is interesting, he seems more like a red herring than anything and not really worth too much speculation.
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it was just a Rebel 8. Athena is always wearing her dogtags or something that always makes her known as a Colonial. The Rebel 8's wear regular clothes.
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Sorry man - I still haven't seen last week's ep.
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Feb 27, 2009 4:49:31 PM CST
I really like the "BSG: Season Zero" comic/graphic books.
by boomers_lips
and apparently I'm the only one.
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NERD ALERT!And yes, I'm kidding.
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Yeh thats right Boomers_Lips she has mentioned stuff like the timelines will all be explained in an upmcoming comic book. I already had a mini rant in the last TB over this bullshit they are pulling,rather than give answers they give us filler eps so all can be explained in "The Plan"Caprica will HAVE to be watched in order to get certain answers which they SHOULD be answering on BSG but are leaving out on purpose....fuck that they said differently lying bastards ARE doing it that way. The comic book bullshit is just the worst, Tween Espenson actually thought last weeks episode was awsome as was the one before it (which it was) but hers sucked.Regardless even though her episode was awsome and could maybe have been improved by actually moving the story forward she would like us to continue watching until the bitter end, and then tune in for "The Plan" + Caprica + The Comic (buy it) as they will explain everything for us...as someone said this is a Cash Cow and SciFi aint done milking it. Someone like RDM might keep SciFi's faggotry in check but Espenson will happily roll with it, so I have the lowest expectations for her running Caprica.
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Thanks! That's what I figured, but I wasn't 100%. Mr. Nice Gaius... sorry if I spoiled anything for you.
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I hope it's something neat like a nuCenturion head or a Viper pilot helmet containing all the dvd's. Or one of the ships that open up to reveal the discs.
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Stop giving them ideas ffs, else they will end up having a new complete boxset out every year.Though I personally fancy a case shaped like a Raider.
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The Caprica Skinjob Cylons created by Zoe and Daniel Graystone resurrected Zoe. It may be that #7 Daniel is a resurrected version of Daniel Graystone (just like his daughter). As such, Daniel Graystone COULD VERY WELL be #7.
Deckard- RDM has said that the last episode of BSG don't require any input from Caprica to be resolved, and don't plug that series. Quit talkin' trash, man. -
because you didn't pay attention to what that comic book addresses.
FIrst off, THE COMIC DOES NOT ACT AS THE FINAL PART OF BSG. The last episode of BSG is the final word.
Second, the Comic IS NOT ESSENTIAL to understanding the show.
Third, the Comic simply chronicles what we've already been told about the Cylons. It will give concrete figures on when the Exodus happened and such, but we already know all of that.
Seriously, don't get your panties in a bunch over it. The comic isn't an important/essential/integral part of the live action BSG, it's just a spinoff for the fans to enjoy. -
gboybama: it's not a stretch. The In-Heads have been there since the beginning -- heck, even before the beginning because apparently they're the ones that warned the Final Five. One physically lifted Gaius Baltar up, and one manifested itself on the BSG in the first season. Whatever they are, they're not simply conversations in the head.
Tai_Pan: Even if 7 turns out to be a resurrected Daniel Graystone, it still wouldn't happen in the timeframe of Caprica unless the show itself runs past the First Cylon War and into the arrival of the final five/creation of the 8. -
Appreciate your essay like posts in the Bsg TB's really do but they are just your opinion and your take on how you think it all fits together and NOT as you might like to think THE definitive answer to it all.So when you have a writer and future showrunner of the "spinoff" show saying certain things will be conclusively explained in the Comic Book then I will take that to mean they are not going to explain it in the show or they will but just do a very bad job of it.Nothing mentioned by those running the show regarding shit to be explained later could not have already been done in these final 10 episodes.
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"Don C: Could you please provide dates for when:
A) the Thirteenth Tribe (of Cylons) left Kobol
B) the Twelve Tribes (of humans) left Kobol
C) Pythia lived and wrote her scrolls.
Jane: The dates and sequence of the events surrounded Pythia and Kobol are going to be explored, I understand, in a comic book being written by Seamus Kevin Fahey [who is a "Battlestar" writer] and David Reed."
That was really worth all the griping, wasn't it? (BTW: the answers have been known for a while: A is 4,000 years ago, B is 2,000 years ago, C is between 3,600 and 2,000 years ago. Pythia's writings are part of the Sacred Scrolls, which were written 3,600 years ago. -
"Even if 7 turns out to be a resurrected Daniel Graystone, it still wouldn't happen in the timeframe of Caprica"
Timeline doesn't matter. RDM said you'll see Daniel as a player in "Caprica." It's a given. It's confirmed. RDM might not even differentiate between Daniel Graystone and #7, the way the show is going. After all, do you think of the Cylons as totally different when they resurrect? And like you said, the show hasn't even aired, so it's a bit early to say whether or not we'll see Daniel Graystone resurrected.
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"Appreciate your essay like posts in the Bsg TB's really do but they are just your opinion "
No they are not. They're all verifiable. The only thing I created was the way to categorize the different kinds of Cylons. I didn't make anything up, thank you. And I challenge you to prove otherwise.
"So when you have a writer and future showrunner of the "spinoff" show saying certain things will be conclusively explained in the Comic Book..." MORE griping about the comic book? Give it up, already. Look at the quote I posted by Esepenson and Ryan concerning the comic book. ALL IT SAYS is that the dates/sequence of events are to be further explored... some people read that (hastily, I'd imagine) and have been ranting "ZOMG!11! Teh Battlestar won't be xplained till teh comix!?!?!" That's not what it says. RDM said that the show (BSG) is self-contained and doesn't require any outside reading or familiarity with the new show "Caprica" to be understood. -
Regardless of what Cap 6 wants to do to her. I don't think there is any beef there. Athena was allowed to chill out on New Caprica without any problems. Boomer is going to get airlocked by the skinjobs because she was the only model to break ranks of her entire line and cross sides in the Cylon Civil War. Athena joining the colonials was given a pass, most likely because of Hera.
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But I don't think it will be.
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...until the last 2 episodes.
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I said its how you feel it fits together not that you making shit up, look the main gripe is why the need for a comic. If they can have wasted episodes like last weeks daytime soapfest why could they not explain and show some of the stuff that is being left to the Comic instead. As for the RDM quote I would'nt put much faith in that not if Espenson has anything to do with it.
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Again, the comic is going to be about Pythia and how she wrote her prophecies. How would they sandwich that into the narrative on the show? It's pure fan-wank material for people who MUST KNOW EVERY LAST DETAIL.
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How the hell do you guys know so much about the Caprica series already?
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I'm revisiting/reprinting my Singularity theory from two or three weeks ago. I think the thesis of the show ties into the concept of the Technological Singularity, and one of the explanations of the Fermi Paradox; that intelligent life will, by definition, be in conflict with other life for available resources (habitable planets, essentially) and will attempt to eradicate all competition. I believe the writers are positing that humans at some point reached the Singularity, possibly in the form of artificial life like the Cylons, and subsequently came into conflict with their earlier pre-Singularity progenitors. This post-Singularity intelligence realized they were in competition for the same resources, and attempted to annihilate their less advanced competition. Then, the post-Singularity (presumably) artificial life decided to evolve to emulate their creators in an attempt to better understand them. Eventually, they reached the point where they were able to interbreed, and thus peace was born. The "this will all happen again" part comes into play when you realize that "humans" will always be working towards achieving the Singularity, and will thus always come into competition between the part of society that hasn't achieved the Singularity, and the part that has. Simply put: it's an old-fashioned culture war. Building on the revelations of two weeks ago, I think there were probably _other_ survivors of Earth beyond the Final Five (possibly evolved from Earth's cylons, or perhaps a further off-shoot colony from Kobol) who did two things: A) made peace with themselves in a "blended" society of humans and cylons, and B) has continued to evolve technologically. This final advanced society is responsible for the in-head visions of Six, Baltar, Leoben (at Kara's death), Elosha (seen by Roslin during jumps), The Opera House, et al. This advanced society is also responsible for resurrecting Kara and replicating her Viper and implanting the impulse to find Earth. They also revealed their presence to the Colonial Centurions during the war. Those early Centurions, not having a better word to use, decided to call them "God". This advanced society has been pressuring the Colonial survivors and Cylons all along on how to be "better". Last week Phantom-Six was trying to teach Baltar a message of charity. In the beginning of the series she had to teach him piety and humility. They have been teaching the survivors moral lessons throughout the entire series (it's not enough to survive, you have to be worthy of survival, remember?). I think what's happening is they are attempting to teach the humans and Cylons how to live together in peace so that they can join this last advanced civilization (and will have the constitution to be able to do so with humility as the obviously junior party).
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In the same TB, I also made the following comment about Lost: Lost is going to end with major elements of the mythology unexplained (they're even adding NEW mysteries to resolve now, with less than two seasons to go!), and Lost fans are continuing to eat this shit. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that after the series ends unresolved, a few years later, one of the show-runners will be back claiming that his new book (or movie, or spin-off TV show, or video game) coming out will finally answer all the left-over questions! And Lost fans will continue to eat the shit they're serving. At the time I wasn't aware that they were going to do a comic about Pythia. In their defense, Pythia herself isn't a major part of the mythology of the show. However, if they do not explain her prophecy, "This has all happened before. This will all happen again," I will be very disappointed. Luckily, from RDM's commentaries, he does seem to believe that the series will resolve all major plot threads and themes of the show. I guess we'll find out in another few weeks.
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As long they solve the big mysteries, I'll be happy. If you are true nerd, then you would want every minor detail explained, but that might not be narratively possible. Besides some mysteries can left up to interpretation. Besides who the hell cares who Bulldogs was.
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I would have bothered to explain my dislike for Lost at the moment, but you have partially explained my reasoning. For the record, I don't think Lost is dead as a show just yet, and I'm willing to continue watching, but my argument is that BSG was a full on Sci Fi show to begin with and that Lost writers have shoehorned the Time travel aspect in to explain the weirdness. RDM admitted that he didnt know who the last of the final five was until the third season, but he didn't say that he was making it up as he went along. Which is what the writers of Lost seem to be doing. I may be proved wrong, but that show sucks at the moment and BSG at least is reaching a conclusion. I'm going to watch the latest Lost now by the way.....do I need a pencil to bite down on to make viewing the episode easier?
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"I said its how you feel it fits together not that you making shit up,"
And what is that supposed to mean? I gave a timeline; never mentioned anything about how the show fits together. Be specific.
"the main gripe is why the need for a comic. "
Are you ignoring what's been posted time and again? You DON'T NEED THE COMIC. It isn't necessary! Look at the quote I posted.
"If they can have wasted episodes like last weeks daytime soapfest why could they not explain and show some of the stuff that is being left to the Comic instead. " Get the wax out of your ears, dude. It's just like Rhuragh said. Everything Espenson would be shown in the comic has been explained already. Sadly, the show doesn't feel it necessary to show Adama taking a shit, and we are left to merely infer that he is keeping regular. The show hasn't even wrapped yet, and you're complaining about not seeing any of this stuff... you don't even know if they'll go over it again.
"As for the RDM quote I would'nt put much faith in that not if Espenson has anything to do with it." -- If you don't want to believe what RDM says, then go right ahead (though I may point out that last week was Espensen's last episode)
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What I know about "Caprica" comes from the press releases, RDM's statements, clips from the show, interviews, and the leaked pilot script. There's quite a good deal of information on it.
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Feb 27, 2009 8:06:04 PM CST
Melinda Clarke shouldve been cast as the wife of Daniel Greyston
by boomers_lips
not this old hag that's on that Caprica dvd cover. Melinda Clarke is a hot redhead. You may know her as Lady Heather from CSI or as Julie Cooper from The .OC.
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"The show hasn't even wrapped yet, and you're complaining about not seeing any of this stuff... you don't even know if they'll go over it again." Exactly but your acting like you know what will be covered in the remaining episodes and the Comic for sure. I am coming from the view they just seem to have wasted 8 of the final 10 just to cram it all in the final 2 plus the Tv Movie and Comic....why is that so hard for you to understand?.
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after he reads Jane Espensons light & cute material. Or maybe Eric Stoltz will bail first. I dunno but expect a recast if the show is lucky enough to get a 2nd season.
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"Exactly but your acting like you know what will be covered in the remaining episodes and the Comic for sure."-- Yeah, I'd say I *am* acting like I know what will be in the comic. I said I know that it goes over the timeline (according to Espensen, it does) and I said it won't cover any need-to-know information for the show (as RDM has said).
as for the show wasting time, I think it's premature to say that since the show hasn't wrapped up yet. Personally, I think all but the last of the previous 8 episodes have been very important.
"just to cram it all in the final 2[episodes]"-- Now who is pretending to know what's going to happen? What's your basis for saying they're gonna cram it into 2 episodes? Gut feeling? You know there's FOUR episodes to go, right? May even be an extra hour, to boot.
"plus the Tv Movie and Comic"
They're not cramming anything in. Pay attention to what's been posted. THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING BSG COMICS FOR YEARS. This is nothing new. It's omake; sidestory; extra information: NOT NECESSARY TO UNDERSTAND THE SHOW. If it's already been told, why are you getting all fussy that someone wants to illustrate it? It doesn't change a damn thing.
"why is that so hard for you to understand?" --It's difficult for YOU to understand, apparently. The only thing known about this comic is that 1) it goes back over the timeline ALREADY established in BSG and 2) nothing in the Comic is necessary to understanding the show. That's it. You and a couple of others have artificially introduced the notion that the comic reveals new information that won't be discussed in the show. What's your basis? -
Feb 27, 2009 8:42:14 PM CST
Tahmoh Penikett said Helo & Athena's final scene is "epic".
by boomers_lips
this is not a spoiler! Okay in TV Guide, Tahmoh Penikett "Helo" said that Helo & Athena's final scene together is very epic and breathtaking. He said that RDM, the writers and practically everyone involved with the show were there to watch them. He said that the writers wanted to give his character the predictable ending but Tahmoh protested it and it was changed and he is very excited at how his character ends up in the series finale.
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"What's your basis?" Jesus Titty Fucking Christ thats who. Lol I dont know why you getting so wound up really, honestly look I mentioned in a previous talkback that someone (shes a reliable source) told me some time back the show would end with everything being crammed into the remaining few episodes...didnt want to believe it but really thats exactly what looks like is going to happen.At least I hopes so unless they leave bits for The Comic or Caprica, have you heard there may be stuff that is left unresolved until shown in those two?I wonder if they going to explain what happend to Boxey in the Comic?
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In one of the books "Sag. Bleeding" or such he is a cylon believe it or not :)
Now can I get a GOOD FRACKING EPISODE PLEASE!?! -
...as gay as last week's Espenson crap-fest.
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...setting a cool tone
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so no one else sees/hears piano?
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Donnelly Rhodes was fraking great as Dutch on Soap
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and a Six is now on the new Quorum! SHIT!
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that no one but starbuck can see or hear the piano guy
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And Chuck and Bob.
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welcome back col. tigh.
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maybe they should try that cylon projection stuff with Anders?
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yes I love me some BOOMER but lets speed it up kids. FTL to some cool fracking stuff!
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this is going way too slowly.
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Way better than last week and the Boomer storyline really needed some airtime.Besides, I think this episode is really the calm before the storm.
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I like the Boomer/ Tyrol story.
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Those first few notes that the piano player played from the the original series opening as he was "composing the second movement" was a sweet little nod to the old toaster show!!
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all this nicey nice stuff is creeping me out :(
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is going to be the face of kara's father.
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Is he Daniel or the person who switched the final five on? Is he even real? Oh and Jccalhoun doing that would actually make too much sense.
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Is it just me, or have they been absurdly MIA the past number of episodes?
Kinda important characters, one would think they would be getting more face time with so few episodes left... -
the lounge piano guy?? I guess the guy really IS in her head.
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Because this episode is a snoozer so far.
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There's Laura.
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Thats mean.
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http://tinyurl.com/cokzbn
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switch them?!?
REALLY? -
I'm proud of him.
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8 smack down
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but how the holy hell was that switch pulled off??? The chief hauling a body around might be noticed, methinks...
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got that, athena?
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Her personality is based on the original Zoe but her appearance is not. The Caprica cylons had no skinjobs until the Final Five came along to help them develop some.
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:) me likey!
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now has to mean "last survivors of Earth" and not "remaining numbers of our skinjobs."
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WOW!
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giving someone shit over tigh being bummed about his dead kid when her actions were what brought the death about
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to do what needs to be done!
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Daddy Thrace!
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Daddy Thrace is Daniel, the 13th Cylon, and Starbuck is Cylon Junior!
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And she took Hera?? what the frak is going on??
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It was all about getting Hera??
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now I know.
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Someone kill her already.
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BRING ON THE UNHAPPY ENDINGS!
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EAT THAT AWESOME SANDWICH MOTHERFRAKKERS... Fuck me.
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That was almost painful to watch.. not because it was a bad episode or plot but because of what was happening.. damn.
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...but the last 10 minutes were a pretty damn spiffy pay-off.
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Can't wait for the next.
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of the most incredible pieces of direction i've ever seen on television - the opening montage, the usage of sound, the delicate shifts, the lingering on emotions that explodes into total utter heartbreak. everyone involved just did that shit on fire.
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Last 10 minutes made it VERY interesting, so the whole thing was about getting Hera
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All the way around.
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a big huge super-battle in the 3 hour season finale at this rate?? I mean....did she just lose an entire landing bay or did I see that wrong??
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Fucking Insane!!!
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Last 10 minutes was a good catalyst for it.
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As in terrific.
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and experience the pain of shitting a brick, because last week it was all "piss and moan this show is OVER, it's just a soap opera, I miss me some military action".
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that's my guess!
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and keep you like a bronzed god of tv showrunning how the fuck have you managed to get this on the air
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Just guessing here...Daniel escaped somehow and is actually Starbuck's dad. Making Starbuck the first hybrid human-cylon. Guess that made her enough Cylon to get resurrected (by who exactly?)
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1st two season lots of Grace Park = great seasons! my theory is correct! :)
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I don't give a fuck, I want to see THESE CHARACTERS AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING
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If not for the final 10 minutes.Still nothing to write home about.
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As soon as he started spouting gibberish and had his head shaved, it was obvious he was going to be a hybrid. Come on, keep up, mutherfrakkers! Fantastic, incredible episode, btw...
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airlock that tubby bitch!!
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not enough tigh, but very good non the less.
and speaking of, wonder how writing went... "ok, we're gonna make the most depressing episode in recent tv history, it's going to make people want to cut their wrists how dark it'll be. oh, hey, let's trow in a line about how tigh wanted to see his dead son. and that it had eyes open." -
THAT'S how you do compelling, ass-kicking, name-taking genre TV. Or any kind of TV for that matter. And next week looks like it's just off the chain crazy.
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She fraks and moans in front of Athena, then steals Hera. Cavil is one sly motherfrakker...it was all just an elaborate ploy. And Laura knows she's gone. Next week looks interesting...Galactica dead? Noooooo. I bet Bill Adama is cursing the day the Pegasus was lost instead of the Galactica!
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Incidentally, wasn't Kara's young self well cast?
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Not great or anything, but better than last week, thank gods. That music sequence was bone-chilling.
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Sachoff side boob for the win!
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WHILE GETTING A BJ AND LISTENING TO ERIK SATIE WHILE CHOCOLATE MELTS IN YOUR MOUTH
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What a wasted opportunity! It would have brought closure to the series finale to have Dirk Benedict play the Piano Man/Starbuck's Father.
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that's like comparing apples and turds
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I think a Daniel escaped or Cavil set one free to screw up humanity!!!!
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its been so long since a visual effects shot, i had forgotten they were in space
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its been so long since a visual effects shot, i had forgotten they were in space
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Post traumatic battlestar disorder. I have the shakes and am in medical shock.
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when saul was talking about his dead baby... adama could have walked by and said "it's short for william."
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Listen to this whiny bitch complain in his own words about the new battlestar, acting as if the original was like the original Lord of the Rings or some shit.
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dbenedict/2009/01/19/lt-starbuck-lost-in-castration/ -
umm i did it for emphasis??
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Screw over Tyrol: CHECK. Screw over Athena: CHECK. Screw Helo: CHECK. Kidnap Hera: CHECK!
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haven't even been as good as a KFC ad in which a guy says "you have a value menu?" which I saw like 42 times tonight.
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Zoe IS a skinjob. She's a Cylon that looks human. That's a skinjob. Furthermore, Skinjobs appeared on Kobol more than 4,000 years ago. THe Final Five were skinjobs BEFORE they died on Earth and were resurrected.
Also, Zoe-R DOES physically resemble Zoe Graystone. They are played by the same actress. In the show, Zoe Graystone uploads her personality and DNA into a digital replica called "Zoe-A." Daniel takes this replica and applies it to stolen technology to try and wholly replicate his daughter. -
This is kinda obvious, but no one here has said it yet, so I'm saying it: the visions of chasing Hera in the Opera House were a prediction of tonight's events.
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funny that, early up in the talkbacks... The episode where Starbuck dies I thought "whoa, this is becoming very very NGE, willing to stake everything on the psychological interior of its characters to a massively philosophical level"
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For me the star of BSG has always been Kara Thrace. They better treat her right or I will be somewhat upset.
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come on now - that slow burn was beautiful and than the final bit they really start fraking (literally and figuratively) with you and POP off we go. Next weeks episode looks sick!
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If it only appears in a digital simulation it's not a skinjob.
The other stuff you point out isn't anything I denied. -
After being utterly pissed last week, its nice to enjoy BSG again.
I'll fully admit this was one of the best directed episodes out of the whole show (love all the intercutting between characters, and the opening was particularly great). Also I finally felt some real character/emotion/motivation , something thats been missing from the show for way too long.
That being said, for the 4th episode till the end its still moving too slowly. Realistically, this should have been last weeks episode, if not earlier in the season. -
I really love this show, but.....the last three episodes better be fucking incredible. Most of what we've seen have been shows that are mostly just fillers for the season. I'm disappointed, not incredibly just a little, compared to the caliber we've been given and were expecting for the final episodes. Its been a soap opera.
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But the first 50 minutes had me thinking that the show really had gone into the shitter
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That was also one of the best edited hours of tv I've ever seen - the allusions between the different threads which were thematically similar, and that incredible montage that opened the episode and all its layers, and the musical crescendo, the music getting more and more complex until it all comes together along with all the story threads. Editors hardly ever get praise, but man, they fucking deserve it this time.
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This was a solid ep. Last week was underwhelming, but this week they got back on track.
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SCIFFY. I am sure they cut the budget to the bone which is the real reason Moore and Eike said thank you very much I think we will wrap this up now.
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using your own name as subject...?
does that mean you're talking to yourself? or is it your in-head taking to you, perhaps?
either way, mad props for mindfucking me at 5:30 AM. -
Emmy submission tapes in supporting actor and actress...in an ideal world.
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I have a few questions here someone might clear up. If it was indeed Cavil that sent Boomer back to galactica, how did he know where galactica was located? And if he does, why doesn't he just send his whole fleet over there right now to wipe the humans out?
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Oh, another thing: the notes the piano player plays when she tells him he's ripping off some other piece of music are the opening notes of the original 1979 BSG theme.
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Has to suck for him, seeing as how the "unimagined" BSG has gained far more critical and commercial success during its run than that sorry-ass Star Wars ripoff ever produced. Starbuck in TOS wasn't that bad, it just wasn't enough to save a shitty show. Katee's Starbuck is excellent and works beautifully within one of the best shows on television. ... but hey, I guess if you've only played one role over and again your entire career, you would feel threatened too.
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As soon as I saw Hera's drawing I guessed that it was a musical score. (But I'd already read the spoiler that a piece of music would figure importantly in the episode.)
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Drturing is right. The editors deserve some real acclaim for their work tonight. Bear McCreary too. The last few scenes where the music developed into the full-throttle rendition of the "All Along the Watchtower" theme was incredible. And yes, as berserkrl suggests, this is what leads into revealing the truth of the Opera House. The shit is about to hit the fan. Oh, this and the Espenson episode last week should have been cut into a single episode, or a 90 minute special broadcast leading into the final episodes, much like The Shield did a few times.
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It was better than last week, if only because there was actual, y'know, plot movement. But, lordy, the first forty-five minutes or so were tough to watch. Sometimes being lost means you can be found, yadda yadda yadda.
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Sorry man, I thought I was signing in and didn't think about it and then started writing, lol.
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Feb 27, 2009 10:31:28 PM CST
Bear already gets enough praise, he just needs to get more work
by drturing
but the editors are really unsung on this show.
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Feb 27, 2009 10:32:29 PM CST
If it only appears in a digital simulation it's not a skinjob. T
by tai_pan
I see where you are getting confused.
Zoe-R is NOT a simple digital recreation. Zoe-R is a cybernetic life-form. Physical. "In the flesh' so to speak. Zoe created a digital replication of her personality, but this was used to make a Cylon long before the Final Five arrived. As such, the first skinjob on Caprica was Zoe-R. -
But the last ten minutes woke me the frak up!! Did NOT see that coming and boy is the Chief gonna get it!! One thing, tho... well, two... 1) It wasn't very clear from the special effect if Boomer crashed into the side of Galactica or she jumped too close. It sure looked like she tore the left wing off the Viper as she squeezed out of the landing bay. So my assumption was\is she and Hera were killed. 2) If she did jump, where'd she jump too? Where is Cavil if he is not on the Mothership, which I believe is now right there with the fleet? Any thoughts or corrections are welcome.
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look like total fucking amateurs. I'd stake money on McReary being one of the few composers working today who has a COMPETELY distinctive sound; I'd put him up with Desplat as about the most exciting composers around.
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Hell yes, drturing, I'm putting on the Gymnopédies and smearing my genitals with chocolate and peanut butter! Where's the dog!
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Yeh he does seem to love it but more so its the fact last weeks Espenson penned Ep was such shit they hardly had an uphill struggle to make this weeks any better. Once it sinks in this will just be another ok episode.
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listen to the conversation between the Tighs. The story has clearly gone to "was set up all along to get Hera to Cavil, to bring about the endgame". She jumped too close, damaging the ship horribly, returning to Cavil.
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we hardly knew ya!
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I honestly don't know what it will take to make most of you happy. The first 50 minutes of this show were INCREDIBLY moving... Chief touching Boomer and visiting the house she's envisioned including a CHILD she's felt with him?? Anyone who didn't get teary at that is an Old School Centurian. PLUS, Chief's heartbreak at the end when he fears he's been used? From start to finish, this was Grade A quality. Those of you who expect some kind of breakneck action show from top to bottom have lost track in your minds of what made this show great...shows like THIS ONE with intense characters and drama.
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From Night on the Great Beach, in Henry Beston's The Outermost House...
"For a moment of night we have a glimpse of ourselves and of our world islanded in its stream of stars— pilgrims of mortality, voyaging between horizons across eternal seas of space and time." -
Hatch was very critical of Sci-Fi's reimagining of BSG, but he eventually became part of the new show. It's a shame Benedict never joined him.
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"You have, “Charlie’s Angels,” “The Saint,” “Mission Impossible,” “The A Team” (coming soon), and “Battlestar Galactica.”
All risk-free brand names, franchises." LOL, that guy thinks an AWFUL lot about the old bsg... a show called "battlestar galactica" is a RISK FREE TITLE!!! LOL, man god bless the person who posted the link to that article... this is hilarious (i'm not done, but could not restrain myself from reacting to it any longer. Man, i am laughing my ass off and i am giddy to get back to finishing it.
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that last weeks episode was a) filmed before No Exit and b) was one of the episodes he was least involved with during the entire run of the series due to all the other work he had going on. shit happens. BSG did the black market episode, which was one of the worst things I've ever seen on tv, but it always, always has come back to its good graces when it counts.
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The notes everyone thought they recognized from the piano player were not the first notes of the original BSG theme but were, in fact, the notes for the CYLON theme from the original show. That was the theme played every time they switched to an approaching Basestar.
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is that the writers make references to Kesey and Sartre and Henry Beston... And what of the current generation of writers whose literacy extends to Halo and Gears of War? I'm serious about that. We're entering a generation whose literacy does not extend to an extensive body of literature.
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well, why all the hate towards character development?
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um, there's more than one baseship.
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There are THREE versions of Zoe in the upcoming Caprica series:
Zoe Graystone: Age 16. Daughter of Daniel Graystone. Supposedly, she is given the insight on how to create life from the One True God. She is killed by her religious fanatic boyfriend, but not before creating...
Zoe A: A digital representation of Zoe Graystone's personality that contains Zoe's DNA. This avatar is found by Daniel Graystone who uses it to create...
Zoe-R: The first skinjob Cylon on Caprica. The 3rd representation of Zoe Graystone. -
Btw, you guys catch the toothpaste Kara had was called "Feldercarb Toothpaste"? Haha.
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It is true drturing, but what if BSG gets someone to read The Outermost house? Better than nothing I think.
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i read camus and sartre and gk chesterton and kurt vonnegut as a teenager cause harlan ellison mentioned them in something i read.. i just appreciate scifi that comes from people who have absorbed a serious amount of life as opposed to those with blinders on.
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Zoe, Tamara, and Joseph Adams' wife were all killed in an explosion by a suicide bomber.
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if you were falling asleep during the first 45 minutes....what the hell? How could you not sense it building up to something big?
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is just as annoying as his character on the new BSG. When he got excuted, it was one of the highlights of this season so far. He's a douche. And he looks like the kinda guy who would be a douche too.
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Since Boomer "freeing" Ellen was all a plot by Cavil then I'm guessing the reason why he did that instead of just attacking the fleet is 1)he doesn't believe they'll win in a battle against them and/or 2)he doesn't want Hera to get hurt or killed during a huge battle and wanted to take her back safely and stealthily.
Also, I'm getting a feeling that maybe the final five who can hear the Watchtower song were actually created by humans back on *our* earth, which lead to war and distruction and then fleeing to *new* earth, which was then destroyed... wash, rinse and repeat. Our earth scientist who created them embedded them with the Watchtower song. And maybe a few survivors of our earth are the "gods" pulling the strings on all of this.. "all this has happened before and will happen again" right? -
Is clearly a reference to Boomer and Hera being marooned in space after their jump. The Raptor is damaged, so they're unable to make it to Boomer's intended destination. I do not, however, think her intention was to take Hera to Cavil. Cavil has shown absolutely no interest in breeding human-Cylon hybrids. He definitely cares nothing for humans, so why would he care about breeding hybrids? I think Boomer kidnapped Hera for her _own_ purposes. Speaking of Boomer, this is really getting into the tragedy of her character. Originally, she was a pre-programmed sleeper agent with no knowledge of her origin or purpose. Her entire existence has been predestined by outside forces. She has had few opportunities to exercise her own free will. She is a marionette, and I fear that, if kidnapping Hera turns out to be another plot by Cavil, or anyone else, the victimization of this character will continue. I would like to see Boomer find her own Separate Peace, and I hope the story allows her to do that. Also, thank you, Grace Park, for the partial nudity tonight. I'll be in my bunk.
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I'm an asshole I meant Hatch
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I don't know how old you are, drturing, but I don't think your teenage reading habits reflect the average of your generation (or your generations television writers). Not attacking you, just saying I don't see how you can argue that "we are entering a generation ..." Every generation has people who try to broaden themselves and people who don't.
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It's an hour long and it'll be on several times in the leadup to the series finale.
3/16: 10PM
3/17: 8AM
3/18: Midnight, 3PM
3/20: 1AM, 7PM (all times Eastern)
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"Hatch was very critical of Sci-Fi's reimagining of BSG" -- Yes, but he was never as insulting as Benedict.
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bitch has got a superior attitude problem. thinks she's all that!
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anyone get a good look at the artwork on that tape case? Thrace's daddy alright. Besides the shocking Opera House reference... whoa... i looked up Helice 'cause i didn't know what it meant. double whoa... and i don't know what that means either. two definitions apparently. one of 8 (7??) stars that make up the big dipper or an ancient city that was destroyed by earthquake and tsunami that inspired Atlantis. ?!?!?!? Kobol, anyone? not sure what to make of this.. but verrrrryyyy interesting in a total fanboy geek kinda way.
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Wasn't it All Along the Watchtower? I thought I heard it. Amazing episode anyway.
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A lot of people my age who have better more expensive educations than I do are only concerned with the immediate and the now and don't even have time to try and access the past. I'm talking working with a well esteemed and highly regarded photographer my age who didn't know who Edward Hopper was. That's freaky. I really believe the current generation of 20-30 year olds with their twitter / facebook / etc. are saturated in instantaneous trivial information as opposed to depthful information.
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"not the first notes of the original BSG theme" -- Not true. I have the original show on dvd.
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he had sunk his own money and soul for years into trying to get his own version off the ground. a hideously cheesy, hilarious version, nonetheless, but you'd be sore about them apples too. the fact he came around is a massive testament to what moore pulled off.
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http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/620003/Ursa-Major
whoa, whoa, whoa... Hera?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(mythology)
my head hurts now..
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Helice -
Im going to respectfully disagree and say that it is a two part reference. 1) The now dead in space Galactica, islanded, the outermost house. 2) The people and they skinjobs, seeing themselves for what they are, the same, mortal. Just my 2 cents.
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Shout outs for Dutch and Harlan Ellison. It's a good night.
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NOT the original BSG theme... listen again. I had the original soundtrack album when it came out, I remember the Cylon theme all too well. I LAUGHED when I heard the piano player dinging those notes... the same ones played whenever we saw a Basestar, but not the triumphant BSG overture (which has been played in this show several times)
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Tonight I just enjoyed one of the last eps of having Katee Sackhoff as Starbuck. I didn't try to over analyse. Just sat back and enjoyed.
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Only took it for the payday as he had near bankrupted himself trying to pimp a continuation of the old show via the trailer and then all those events he put togther which hardly anyone attended loosing him even more money. As for Dirk the man is kooky as fuck and well at least has never sold himself out so let him have his say.Makes no difference to most I would imagine, that he still feels pissed at SB becoming a female character.
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The opening notes: http://tinyurl.com/cdd5d4
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Dumbass cylon, His character has been the most inconsistently written one of all. One week helpng , next voting to leave its a coin toss whats he going to do week to week. That being said--Any episode that shows a glimpse of Grace park getting laid deserves an Emmy. Her body is Booming. HaHa play I words I love her long time.
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"Wasn't it All Along the Watchtower" -- yes, at the end. But earlier, when he plays a sequence of notes and Kara tells him he's ripping off a sonata, that's the opening of the old BSG theme -- see the link in my previous post.
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How did Chief identify Boomer after a few seconds just last episode, and yet this week Helo is in "all 8's look alike" mode? Btw, excellent call above on the Cylon projection and Anders.
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Tyrol could identify Boomer because he's a cylon too. Helo can't because he's not.
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The main BSG theme happens right after that. After the pilot episode, the shows started with "There are those who believe..." and went straight to the BSG Theme. So we're arguing the same thing - we both recognize that music, except I pointed out that it is the Cylon Theme, not the BSG theme.
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cause the chief is a cylon, duhhhhhrrrrrr
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At this point we may be reduced to semantic quibbles, but those notes are the original opening to the BSG theme. Later on they played the BSG theme with a different opening.
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http://tinyurl.com/ctscgr
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Helo could have probably figured out it wasn't Athena had the situation been non-sexual. The horny male human tends to be frak first, ask questions later!
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"As for Dirk the man is kooky as fuck and well at least has never sold himself out so let him have his say."
Are we to infer that Hatch "sold out" by joining the new BSG? I hope not. He's an actor. Actor's gotta eat. That being said, his work as Tom Zarek has easily been the best of his entire career, and has made for one of the best characters on the show. Dirk Benedict, on the other hand, is a misogynistic one-trick pony dumb enough to ruin his chances at being on one of the most popular and critically acclaimed shows on TV all because turning a shitty kids show into a drama is "selling out" in his opinion. What a dumbass. "Starbuck doesn't have a dick! Oh noes!!1!" -
Haven't heard anyone discuss this. Is this Cylon HappyPlace projection something new? Did I miss something or did they just tell us that's what the InHeads are AND that not only is Starbuck at least partly a Cylon, but just confirmed that Baltar is a Cylon?
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I naturally assumed that that trailer (which was practically longer than my entire life) that it was made by a fan... a fan with a good sense of humor. Seriously, if that was intended to get a movie made, i am blown away. Man, that was godawful. It actually reminds me of the episode of 30 rock where Tracy Jordan tries to get his Thomas Jefferson movie where he played all the roles. I am being 100 percent serious here: That bsg trailer was even funnier than the Tracy Morgan trailer... i love the slow mo shot of him running with the explosion in the background--that clip should come up on dictionary.com when you search for 'cliche'
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shout outs to Dutch, Harlan Ellison and Cerebus (welcome Most Holy).
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Feb 27, 2009 11:24:48 PM CST
next week is Katee Sackhoff's final appearance on NIP/TUCK!!!
by boomers_lips
Rose McGowan takes over her role on that show soon.
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it's called 'projection'. it's why the interiors of their basestars are so empty, to each individual cylon it might appear completely different. as for baltar, they're just leading you on. i bet you anything they never resolve if six was his guilt, his conscience, an implant, a cylon. all they ever do with that one is tease. it's not a puzzle like some shit from lost, it's meant to ambigious. you're meant to wonder what the fuck it is. moore says so every time there's an episode with baltar.
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Guess it will be semantics, but those notes are the original opening to the BSG PILOT, not the THEME. They only played at the front of the PILOT episode immediately before the BSG theme but were NOT part of the actual Battlestar Galactica Theme, which has always remained the same triumphant fanfare. So you can say they were the first notes heard and you're right, but they are the CYLON THEME (there can really be no arguing that point - that is what that music ALWAYS represented in the original show) and not the Battlestar Galactica THEME.
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let's also bow down to Gabriel Faure and Debussy.
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"Is this Cylon HappyPlace projection something new?" -- No, Six told Baltar about it ages ago. Cylons can control their projections but those infested by InHeads can't control them so I'm thinking it's not the same thing (though it may be related).
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Richard Hatch made that trailer in the hopes that FOX would make a new weekly BSG show.
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Seems like it would have made a perfect opportunity for the piano man to be played by Dirk Benedict. I guess that would have implied something though that the writers may not have wanted us to go to.
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was way too easy.
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Did they specifically mention that Cylons can project into human minds?
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good to see her back in play
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I think you may be onto something... I bet Anders will become the hybrid resident on galactica as a desperate move to save the ship or something. That's cool, man. cool.
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"Why no Dirk Benedict cameo tonight?" -- why reward DB with a cameo when he's been such a dick about the show? Besides, if the piano player had been played by DB it would have made the piano player's nature a bit too obvious too soon.
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Your suggesting he might be loosing sleep over not being in the show, which I doubt he is. Personally hated the original show and didnt want any of the original cast on the new one so am glad Dirk at least stuckto his guns. As for Hatch he might have done his best work on the show but he still only did it as he had little else on his plate.
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of in-head Six as Baltar's guilt manifesting itself.
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"Did they specifically mention that Cylons can project into human minds?" -- No. But Tyrol isn't human.
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Ellen's escape was orchestrated so Boomer could take Hera.Hera was Taken.Starbuck's Dad taught her the same music the Five heard/hear, and Hera knows the notes, too.Ship damaged heavily.Seemed a bit light, given the time remaining in the series....
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Plus it looks like Roslin is finally actually dying.
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Considering that Kara is now confirmed to be the 1st cylon-human, which supposed to represent "the next step of humanity" or something like that, you guys might want to think carefully about what "the next step of resurrection" is supposed to be. Also, where is Kara's missing ovary??
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I was thinking of Baltar, not Tyrol.
This would have made a LOT more sense to have Tyrol vote to leave the humans AFTER this episode instead of before it. -
It has been shown before. Granted, it was in-head Six who did it to Baltar, but it was very specifically shown when Deanna was going to torture Baltar and in-head Six frantically projected into Baltar so he could dull the pain and survive the attack. But he clearly saw himself being somewhere else with Six.
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Feb 27, 2009 11:42:49 PM CST
March 1 st is Dirk Benedicts birthday. He`ll be 64 this year.
by ron's jeremy
Dirk Niewoehner. That is Dirk Benedicts real name. Swear to god.
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Unless it is a total mind f**** #7 is the father of Kara, so that means the final five when creating the skinjobs sent them down to the colonies 25 to 30 years before to interact with humanity in their development. Daniel fell in love because as Ellen had said he was a sensitive being and an artist resulting inthe birth of a hybrid, even though it was unintended. How she resurrected, still a question, but I do know one thing Bob Dylan is the one true Cylon God lol.
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Add Francis Poulenc to the list. Hell, why not the whole Les Six?
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I mean gods
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I mean gods
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You gotta be kidding me. It is beyond me how you say the same things every week, hell, you say the same things multiple times in single talkbacks. Dude, we get it already, Starbuck had a role in nip/tuck but they replaced her. We get it, you want to know if the head six will be explained... just because no one replies to you doesn't mean no one is reading your posts--its that no one gives a shit about the things you find it so necessary to bring to our attention. as another talkbacker said-- you act as if you are informing us. you're not.
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Next weeks episode of Nip/Tuck?, anyone knows this?....anyone?
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allegedly he was offered a role in the season 1 finale by Ron Moore but he turned it down. Whether that's true or not, I dunno.
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quotes shit out of context on purpose, complains about the same thing week in week out, and yet returns here every week after watching it on a friday night considering themselves to be badass or something. give it up.
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Well thats put him/her in place, am sure we wont hear form that TB'r again. Thank fuck for the TB police doing such a fine job of keeping this place coherant and sane, your cookie is in the mail.
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He has been a jerk about the series, and we all would have leapt to a conclusion if they had gone with him, you're right.
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it felt like this epidode should have happened 2 seasons ago.
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...has updated his blog with a special three part post detailing the production of tonight's episode. Apparently he was asked by Weddle and Thompson to be involved with the production starting with the script. Bear was required to be on-set to help Michael Nankin _direct_ since much of the music in the episode is diegetic (arising from within the narrative, rather than a extra-diegetic, or outside, score). Apparently they even auditioned Bear to play Kara's dad in the bar. Reading these posts makes clear how large his role was in creating this episode, and really makes it all the more significant how successful this episode is in melding the narrative and score. Before reading this I would have ranked the episode a four on the Adama Hugs scale. Now I rate it a five.
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...if I actually LINKED to the blog! http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1597#more-1597 That's part one. He links to part two at the end of the entry, and then part three at the end of the second part. Enjoy!
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from the pilot movie. They removed it sometime after that of course but like someone said it's semantics really. We all know what it was.
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you need to stop using medicinally and start recreationally
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Am I the only one who thinks them choosing that song is really significant somehow? Especially in context to when the show is taking place in relation to present time.
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I don't know if you guys have noticed (or maybe I'm just retarded and never could do it right) but for some reason, it has been impossible to sign up for TB forever! I've been reading your theories and arguments for what seems like eons at this point. And for some reason, I was able to sign up tonight, just in time for my favorite show's finale. Better late than never.
I feel as if I've had interesting theories worth talking about in the past but never had the ability. It's pretty much too late for that now but I want to thank you guys (particularly MNG, chromedome, and chrth amongst others) for expanding my enjoyment of the show.
Anyway, I don't have much to add here other than tonight's opening reminded me very much of Radiohead's creepy track "Fitter Happier." I feel as if it were a deliberate reference to an album called OK COMPUTER (very cylon-y!)) that contains a track called "Paranoid Android" (two words that would sum up Kara Thrace). I don't think it means anything to the overall mythology of the show; just a nod to a band that is admittedly an inspiration to a few of the writers.
Anyway, I'm glad to be here and I hope I can be a constructive member of the BSG TB for what I hope will be an outstanding finish. Oh, and you guys should lighten up on Boomers_Lips; yeah he gets repetitive and sometimes spoilery, but the dude's obviously a dedicated fan.
Two last things: Waynesworld - awesome catch on Helice; that's fucking awesome.
RaveX - I teared up I was laughing so hard at "oh, hey, let's trow in a line about how tigh wanted to see his dead son. and that it had eyes open." Amazing. -
The opening Kara sequence and the scene where the song builds into All Along the Watchtower were both really well done.
As others have said, I hope it's all balls-to-the-wall from here. -
a) Cylons: can project their thoughts onto others and transfer thoughts through a limited space. b) Hybrids: thinks in multiple dimensions, so they can navigate FTL travel instinctively, and see things in the future, albeit in gibberish. c) Humans: we have emotions and whatever defines us as having life/consciousness, which means we are closer to "God" if you will. d) All of the human visions happened when they close to death (see Baltar/Roslin). Roslin's visions are the strongest when she was on board the hybrid's ship during FTL travel. My best guess is: whatever was left of Daniel inhabits the "limbo space" during FLT flight, and Starbuck possesses the sum of all of the traits from a) through d). She has a knack for flying because of it, and she can navigate through space-time unconsciously. When Starbuck was knocked unconscious while pursuing the raider near that planet with the electronic storm, the near-death experience caused her to see Daniel as Leoben, who tells her of her destiny. Then her viper exploded, she was somehow sucked into a wormhole or something (by chance or design, who knows). Inside, Starbuck's consciousness guided her to "our" Earth, while her physical body came out to an Earth that was destroyed. The "spirit" Starbuck then thought about Apollo/home, which compelled her to go back, thus reappearing near the nebula. I know there's alot of unknowns, but whatever actually happened, Daniel must be Starbuck's guardian angel of sorts, and has guided her up to this point.
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The show is suffering from his prolonged lack of screen time.
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But worth the wait. The turning point of the ep was when it suddenly dawned on SB that Hera's little drawing was in fact musical notes. Things moved along a lot faster after that.
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OK, maybe everyone's accepted this, but given what appears to happen in next week's episode, I'm making my prediction now that the Galatica, not Roslyn, is the "dying leader" that doesn't make it to the promised land.
As for last week's episode, let's all just agree to never speak of it again. I mean, Ellen seemed to be the Ellen from the Baseship, Chief seemed all into fixing the ship (outside of wacking out an 8 for love). So let's just pretend last week didn't happen, OK? -
Truffaut's SHOOT THE PIANO PLAYER.Just a thought.
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I want to see some 8's get it down lesbian style
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I have to get this out of the way.
Boomer is eeeeeeeeevil.
What's chilling is watching the episode a second time, knowing that she's playing the Chief, those early scenes are she coils around his feelings for her, subtly drawing him in, just chilling. The Chief's realization of what he'd done, how he'd been played, great performance in that moment.
Last week, I wrote that it was a plot hole that we don't get an explanation for how Boomer found Galactica. One thing I hadn't considered was that we wouldn't know. Only Boomer knows and they arrested her immediately. Of course, we know now that, clearly, John/Cavill knows where the fleet is and simply hasn't attacked. (Now that he has Hera, though, screw the human race. Space Battle coming, the mother of them, I think. All bets are off.)
So the piano player was a Head person, whoever they are. (And thank you Ellen for saying what I wish more characters were saying, "something that's manipulating all of us" Just once I wish they would all sit down - all of them - Baltar, Roslin, both Adamas, Kara, everyone and put their cards on the table. Something is guiding them, altering their lives, and that was cool when it seemed like it was leading them to a new home, but Earth was crap, so what the hell? Wouldn't they pool their info, try to figure out what the point of it all was?)
And the Hell Yeah moment for me was the realization of the song. The pacing, the editing was wonderful, and I realized what the song was just as the other characters did, it was perfect. I did a big mental WHOA at that point. Camera looming in dramatically and Saul's "What the Frak?", the stunned looks - Awesome storytelling! Very portentious, ominous, forebodeful.
So who exactly was Kara's father? It was strange, some of those shots of her with the piano player, it seemed like Kara was realizing that the piano player WAS her father, but then it didn't seem to play out that way. Wouldn't she be more alarmed, say "uh why haven't you aged? How did you get here?" but looking at the final scene with them again, the impression is unmistakable - that's dad. So ... is Kara ... half Head person?
Just throwing that out there.
The Piano Player was a great performance, great writing. The way he gently guides Kara, never pushing her, waiting for her to come to him, as if her playing the song has to be all her, just lovingly helping her. Just beautiful.
Hera kidnapped. Didn't see that coming. Well, actually I did, as soon as Boomer got it on with Helo, but when I did realize it, it was so alarming. I hadn't seen it coming in the bigger picture, but given what John/Cavill wants, should have seen it coming. Fantastic writing this episode.
Great One. Three (4 hours) left. -
... insult of an episode they provided to us last week, I hope Jane is still being slapped for that mess that makes formulaic TV look good.
I would give it a pass, based on the last 10 minutes, plus Grace and seeing an exterior shot. Though like last week feels like a waste when you only have a few episodes left -
...which were extremely vicious thanks to Boomer and can be compared taking the war into his enemy's home - i.e. Helo, Athena, Hera and the impact of it all, along with the huge mind frak to Tyrol.Cavil may not want Hera, but the psychological impact of taking her certainly has the affect of an off the chart nuke explosion IMHO.
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I hate to say it, but I am enjoying Life on Mars more than this shit.
Just make the pain end. So much potential during season 1. -
Feb 28, 2009 2:32:24 AM CST
why does everyone keep saying "galactica is the dying leader"
by drturing
as if it were some incredible revelation that reveals all, especially given that a) roslin is a DYING LEADER and b) it's a metaphor for all the terminus that's coming, i.e. Roslin's impending death. Did you see that tonight? The sweaty shaky leader who's been dying for the past two seasons, getting close to death. ROSLIN IS THE DYING LEADER.
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According to McCreary we're both wrong -- http://tinyurl.com/dldd7p -- he calls it neither the Cylon theme nor the intro to the BSG theme, but rather the "Exploration" theme. But he also doesn't seem to realise the pilot started with it.
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fuck... i give up on this show... it gets worse every time. lame lame lame. all down hill since Razor. damn i am disappointed.
final five get no respect from their own creations... that's just bs... all of it is just lacking in creativity, rushed, bs. damn.
i've never seen a show crash and burn like this. -
Nah, he does know. Posted before I finished reading, duh.
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Like any tv show, movie, book etc we all see how we think it will play out, Obviously more so if you really like the tv show etc.
For me things were going well until we found Earth and then found that is where the five came from.
As I have said before last week's episode was awful, this week whilst building to something really got going in the last ten minutes. The mutiny episodes were fun, but were essentially filler.
I suppose like survivors on BSG and the fleet since earth they are lacking direction and purpose, think to some extent the show is too. .
The saving grace is that we know there is only 3 episodes left, something finite.
I am personally hoping that now the show has caught it's breath and will be "sprinting" to the
finish line. -
How to I paragraph return? Is there an advanced Talkback form I'm not seeing?
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This seems more and more like NGE.
Am positive drugs were used in the writing of the last few episodes of that show.
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Feb 28, 2009 2:51:53 AM CST
Am positive drugs were used INSTEAD of writing of the last few e
by shan
Am positive drugs were used INSTEAD of writing of the last few episodes of that show.
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at the end if your paragraph
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by the way.
But I'd agree about Evangelion. -
I still think we are owed an explanation as to when and how Earth fits into "our" earth and how we are related to the humans in the show. I'll be pissed if this isn't addressed.
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But I hate all the folks doing the bitching and the whining. I'd like to shove you all out an airlock with Tori and the entire show and it's experience would then be perfect.
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Now I can post without my text looking like lunatic rambling.
The more I think about this episode, the more floored I am. I predict Tyrol is going to kill Boomer. Her cruel exit line about remembering her lies, his saying they would meet again. Oh yeah he will. Bad Boomer.
So was the piano player just a representation of her father? It was strange, she seemed to recognize him but didn't. Was that how it played for other people?
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Reading that blog post he wrote about the new BSG is amazing. He is grasping at so many straws! Comparing the BSG remake to Charlies Angels and similar remakes. He actually says people like the new BSG because they are told to. What a sad man. And all the comments afterwards are amazingly stupid. People refusing to watch because they heard that "Starbuck is a lesbian". LOL
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I know this is a little off topic, but is the general consensus that the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken is the cylon/Baltar Cult God?
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I'm feeling like somehow Pythia has to play into this NOW, rather than just as the ancient prophetic voice.
The lone survivor from 4000 years ago who wrote all the crazy prophecies and is now guiding her children through it all. -
Is that the rant he did back in 2004 or is this something new, as if it is the rant from way back then (as far as I know he hasnt mentioned the show since then) he basically said his piece and left it at that. He even met Katee a few weeks after that, was filmed and they shared a cigar and he wished her well. Like I say if this is something new then fuck him but if its the old thing then really whats the use in bringing it up? He said his bit and hasnt harped on about it since then.End off
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When Watchtower is realized, as Hera is taken from the ship, the song is a siren, a warning wail that something terrible has happened. Yet, also, Kara hasn't looked so peaceful and fulfilled in a long time, once she has played the notes. Happy and sad at the same time.
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Boning Boomer... Mmmmmmm. Best moment of the entire series.
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This one was great.
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Original BSG will still be around 10 years from now, the DVD box makes an excellent door stop.
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I've read most of this talkback but its so long I didn't read every single post. So not sure if anyone mentioned this particular plot hole. The cylons need the finale five in order to create resurrection again? Did I miss something last week? Cause if I didn't that's a major hole when you can't recreate the technology that basically made you immortal for the past... what, 40 years or so. No body took notes? Kept a copy of the plans? Or is all that stuff back on the "home world" and its too much trouble to try to go get it? I'm just sayin'...
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...but I do now! Would love to have that piano version of AATW blasting from my phone at work. -- But does this mean Kara is Ander's kid? ewwwwwww Is this was EJO meant when he said that we'd find Kara's true identity to be sick and twisted?
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Isn't he a mascot for a Starbucks or something now? In full battle gear, waving a sign that says "Starbuck HEART Starbucks" these days?
My impression of him was that he was pretty out of touch. Well, there's always reality TV! -
... that "other colony" Ellen was talking about with Cavil.
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Space, the Canadian scifi channel, did a big BSG special a while back and they asked Katee about the whole Starbuck Meets Starbuck at Starbucks thing. She mentioned how his character had been a womanizer or a chauvanist or something like that and the reporter went "mm-hm" and Katee said "Welllll - he still is." and rolled her eyes. You got the distinct impression that he had hit on her.
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he survived cancer by giving himself bird seed, yogurt, tofu cocktail enemas
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...the Island On A Stream Of Stars preview on Youtube? Space didn't show it and I'm getting nothing but "TOUGH LUCK YOU CANADIAN SCHMUCK" when I try to watch it on SciFi.com
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Sure, the pay-off of the last ten minutes was fantastic, but the rest of it was genius, too. Big salute to director Nankin for giving the note that Helo and Boomer should have sex rather than just kiss.
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I was thinking the same thing, so I just cut the video out using an audio extractor then made a ringtone out of it. =D
My wife will think I'm a total nerd, but gods fracking dammint it's cool! -
"Helice" (as seen on Dreilide Thrace's recording) is also an actual greek word, used today in words like "helicopter" and the DNA "helix" among others, signifying a circular/rotating motion, perhaps a nod to "all this will happen again..."
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I did the same thing! Be proud! Fuck everyone else!
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What if the Final Five weren't the only ones who managed to escape Earth?
I think Kara is another member of the 13th tribe. -
No shit! There were loads of ships in space when the Colonies were attacked, and we know the people of "Earth" were a spacefaring race, so...
And in a similar vein, WTF happened to the FF's spaceship they brought back to the Colonies loaded with resurrectiony goodness? -
I frakked up and kept typing in islands and not islanded. Stupid 80s country music. No wonder I couldn't find the promo on YouTube. Frak! LOL
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She did mention chasing after a car!
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I did DVR the episode off cable tv. I just wish they could just have it on the website for download.
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I agree its a good version but I also liked the really slow one that Anders sang over, a few episodes back when on Earth and he found a piece of his old guitar.
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Feb 28, 2009 6:55:20 AM CST
Daniel Greystone is Cylon #7? And the Galactica is the dying lea
by hardboiled wonderland
The same first name can't be a coincidence. I also think the Galactica is the dying leader, been musing on this since last season. Like Starbuck's song, these final episodes are full of happy-sad: happy because they're brilliant frakking episodes, but sad because they're the last we'll ever see.
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So much better than the last one!
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The problem is you and Dick are severely delusional if you think anyone under the age of 30 watches the original Galactica without derisively laughing their asses off.
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I've said this before but I still think that Dirk's Anti BSG rant from a few years ago may be a massive foiler.
He seemed perfectly ok with the new show when it first started and even appeared to "pass the baton" in a BSG special before the start of season one. In the podcast for "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II" Ron Moore even says he almost had Dirk appear to Baltar in his opera house vision as say "Hello, I'm god." But latter changed his mind. There has never been any explanation for his 180 degree about face on the new BSG.
You can all marry a woman like Grace Park.........If you are a Korean billionaire. -
I was gripped from start to finish. It was great to see Boomer back and have it all tie in to the first season.
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Nothing has changed that.
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Honestly, this episode was one of the best things I've ever seen on TV. The editing, the audio work, the cinematography, the acting, the writing...just incredible and incredibly moving. An unbelievable benchmark in the series as a whole.
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I'm sorry, but that was boring as hell. Starbuck dreams about her never before hinted at father... aka the random character we're using to reveal the next bit of "plot". Oh, and Hera can draw music, that looks nothing like stars, but we're going to call it that so that Kara can have her "oh shit" moment later in the episode.
Oh yeah... also... the Cylons can project themselves into people's minds... did we forget to mention that over the last 4 years? Oh, yeah, well... that. -
the piano player is "Daniel", which makes Kara 1/2 Cylon. Forgive me if others have come to this conclusion already. I haven't read the whole talkback.
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Ok Ive lurked on these boards long enough, time to actually post.
I agree with a few of you about the last few episodes, thay have been rather lax. Would have me thinking "Meh" most of the time. This one was more, it was fantastic.
Although I think when Tigh was talking about "the kid had his eyes open" I don't think that was Liam, I think he meant Anders. -
Just watched it, and there was some excellent character play there, and the buildup and payoff were very well executed. I notice that the haters are fewer today (oh, and no Deckard for some reason) and that all they can come up with is a whiney "This show suks, waaa waaa!"
I can't wait to see how this ends. -
When Starbuck is briefing the pilots in the tease, she tells them to enjoy the alone time but to keep the "wacking" to a minimum to conserve oxygen. They sneaked that right by the censors.
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Definitely one of the best of the series. Sackhoff should get an Emmy if there were any justice.
Almost made up for the atrocity of last week. -
Definitely one of the best of the series. Sackhoff should get an Emmy if there were any justice.
Almost made up for the atrocity of last week. -
If you hated this one, then I'm sorry. Really, you must either have an agenda against this show or you have no taste.
BSG is better than Lost at the moment. There, I said it. -
Hera's prophetic drawings - already an established part of the show. Cylon projection - already an established part of the show. The fact that there's something special about Starbuck - major story arc of the show. They couldn't really introduce her father before now without giving the game away. Do you actually watch this show?
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Man, the look on the chief's face when he realizes he's been played. Aaron Douglas did incredible work on last night's episode. His final scenes are some of the best stuff we've seen from his character, who has always been one of the show's most consistenly interesting characters. I can't believe we only have three episodes left but I can't say I regret anything about this show. Season Three of Battlestar is the most perfect thing to happen to television since Buff and The Sopranos had their second seasons. God bless you, Moore and Eicke. I pray Caprica fills the void when the Galactica gets put out to pasture. She's a good ship. We'll miss her
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Bear McCreary never says that the song is not the Theme music for the Cylons. He simply says the music comes from a piece called "Exploration" - a title given by composer Stu Phillips. It's common practice. (McCreary's blog is a fascinating read, isn't it?) So we weren't wrong... but if you want to make the statement "complete" it would be "The music that the Slick character plays on the piano is actually notes from Stu Phillips' 'Exploration' - music that became the Cylon Basestar Theme and was the first music heard on the pilot episode of the original Battlestar Galactica." How's THAT?
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Does anyone actually know where you can download this version? Cause again Id love the way this builds up as they play the piano as my ringtone.
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I really don't think it was more than simple deduction. He knows the ship didn't come from the basestar and he knows Boomer is the only one of her model that isn't part of the basestar group. He even says it part questioningly, as if he is pretty sure but not 100%.
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I noticed that, too. And when she repeats it she actually says "wanking". But as far as I know, neither are off limits words, even for network TV.
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I think Jane Espenson's writing ads a welcome voice to this kind of show, which has always grown since the beginning. She dials it back from her Whedon days but still ads some much needed humor. I love how Ellen explains that she and Saul were always destructive, no matter which incarnation they were in. Buffy Season Two wasn't as funny as season three, when Jane joined. She just makes things more funny. But BSG is good when it's funny it just has to be intelligent satirical fun and not camp. (sigh)... I hope Anders wakes up before the show ends...
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is one evil, manipulative bitch. I mean DAAAAAYYAAAAAMMM. That being said, even though I know she'd rip my heart out and kill me, I'd still bang the bejesus out of that hard-bodied little nip.
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There is a funny moment in the first few minutes involving a cat.
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He used to be Mike Horton on DAYS OF OUR LIVES. It's sad that I know this but alas,I do.
Also, this was a hell of an episode. There is simply no argument that stands to the contrary. Get used to it! -
extracted in mp3 format? Let me know here and I'll be happy to do it.
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Meesa thinksa someones gonsa diesa.
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she's not a nip, she's a korean. btw, the fastest way to not get laid by an asian woman is to project that kinda shit on them. but from your manners, sounds like you have to pay for sex anyway.
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It looks good. Is that Boomer with Hera in a baseship?
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The whole Tyrol/Boomer things smacks of the Star Trek Generations Nexus. Geez, they can't even stop ripping off BAD ideas!!
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I'm of the opinion that the show trainwrecked in the mid point of season #3. Once you Jump the Shark, you cannot jump back over. Yes this is Neon Genesis Evangelion V.2
The best part of the show now is reading the people trying to rationalize whatever the writers are spewing out. -
I'm of the opinion that the show trainwrecked in the mid point of season #3. Once you Jump the Shark, you cannot jump back over. Yes this is Neon Genesis Evangelion V.2
The best part of the show now is reading the people trying to rationalize whatever the writers are spewing out. -
The Nexus was a anomaly in time and space. If you're going to accuse them of ripping off a Trek idea, then why not the "Vulcan mind meld"
:D -
"Starbuck dreams about her never before hinted at father" -- when she returned to Caprica back in season 1 she listened to a recording of her father's music; and when she died in season 3 she met her dead mother; so it's not completely out of nowhere.
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... is that people just enjoy it? Personally, I loved the explanation of the Final Five (memories, sublight travel etc.)
And people trying to rationalise? David Lynch made a career out of that! :) -
We still don't know what the hell Starbuck is! Sure that's her dad. Maybe it's Daniel. But How is SB different? What's her destiny? I thought this was supposed to be explained in this episode? They only hinted at it. Well they don't have much time to get all the explainations out there. So they'd better get to it.
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..When this is good TV?
I didn't like the mid point of season 3, but I was still compelled to continue watching, and was rewarded for it.
I've never seen this Neon show, so I can't comment on that. -
could've worked if not for all the other in-heads roaming about throughout the series run.
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UUUUUUUCCCCKKK!!!!
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I was PISSED while watching the episode... the lame piano shit... the wack Boomer/Chief lovey dovey bullshit... sooo slow. Then I got kicked in the nuts and I JIZZED. IN ... MY PANTS.
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It's just I was all set to finally understand about SB. Now I'm hearing that next weeks will exlain everything. We'll see.
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I would assume that was Boomer and Hera on the Cavil Base Ship.
Poor Athena. With all those other Eights running around the Galactica she should have gotten herself a nifty "I love Helo" tattoo or something so Karl could tell them apart. -
So, the Cylon basestar becomes the new Galactica, which completes the integration of human and cylon personnel and survivors.
Not sure we're going to get more closure about Starbuck - if we're to believe Katie Sackoff about how the character arc was tied up.
I'm less concerned about some of the smaller details being tied up - that wouldn't leave anything for us to discuss and debate. As long as the big arcs are tied up, these final episodes will have been a big success.
This episode, especially the way it ended, reminded me a little of Entropy in Buffy season 6. Everything falls apart. -
..seems to be that they aren't vain and are not concerned about how they look, hence them all looking the same. But yeah, you'd think she'd at least do blonde..
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RDM says it's Roslyn. Case closed. But if your paranoid brains can't take his word for it, then would you kindly explain to me how a ship AN INANIMATE OBJECT could have the dying leader's visions of snakes?
... yeah... it didn't happen. What DID happen was that Laura Rosyln had the vision of snakes in Season one.... and she has a wasting disease (not hull damage!). -
I don't know, maybe the ACTUAL DYING LEADER IS... THE DYING LEADER?
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Id love the audio as an mp3, can you host it via filefront or something?
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Head-Elosha said it in "The Hub" that the ancients believes that the leader was the body of her people. Galactica, Adama, and Roslin are going through different kinds of deaths. The death of ideals, the death of hope, and the death of body. Humanity is dying as well, only to be reborn as something new.
Remember that in the tarot that death is not destruction, but change from one form into another. Kara is the harbinger of death, but not of the destruction of humanity.
And anyone not reading Television Without Pity's recaps of BSG (as long as they are) is a fucking idiot. -
It's a theme called 'Exploration', usually used as a lead-in to the Galactica Main Theme. The Cylon Base Ship theme is very similar, but it only decends. Here's a clip from Composer Bear McCreary's blog on this very subject...
"In an instant, I knew exactly what I wanted “Nomion’s Third” to be. Stu Phillips, the composer for the classic Battlestar Galactica, composed a piece for that series called “Exploration” that I’ve always loved. Set apart from the bombastic march of the “Main Title,” “Exploration” is much more mysterious, ambiguous and harmonically rich. Listen carefully to the closing seconds of “Colonial Anthem” on my Season Two Soundtrack CD and you’ll hear a duduk and bansuri state a fragment of this theme. Even then, I couldn’t resist incorporating the theme into our new Galactica." -
http://tinyurl.com/aelsru
Best quote of the article-
Mo Ryan: "Would we be correct in assuming that everything Boomer did from the moment she left Cavil's base ship was part of his plan to get Hera?"
BSG writer Bradley Thompson: "How do you escape from a fully armed base ship?"
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. . .because for the next few weeks/months or so, Athena is going to kick his ass about losing Hera, and randomly fracking another 8. Mark my words, Helo will be living through hell for the forseeable future.
I thought this episode was amazing, by the way. Even the slow build-up for the first 35 minutes or so was really worth it--mostly since Boomer was such an important part of the storyline that never got resolved. Her relationship with Tyrol is kind of heartbreaking, too.
Plus, Grace Park in her undergarment attire is never a bad thing. -
Feb 28, 2009 12:58:06 PM CST
this is assuming helo will even be alive in the next few weeks
by bullet3
The rate this shows going, the fleet will probably get destroyed and everyone will die in the next episode.
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daniel is starbucks daddy
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has been a figment of starbuck's imagination as she sat there in her crashed viper slowly dying.
worked for st. elsewhare -
There are people that like just about anything, therefore I'm sure people also enjoy the silly direction this show has taken. My stance is that as a fan we werw shortchanged of the great promise this show made for silly "shock writing" and a complete retcon of most if not all the characters based on forced co-incidences and writers making things up as they go. Sure are there some great scenes and some great action moments- sure.
But in the context that the story makes no sense - and there have been huge holes brought up in this talk back as well as the prior two episodes talk backs, it has cheapened everything for the viewer. Also remember this is the SCI FI Network, so expect the suck to accelerate and increase! -
I think a more creepy interpretation of the in-head cyclons is that they are the parents of the people they are appearing to.
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she said that he left and never wrote her, never called her, etc. Well, duh, Cavil destroyed Daniel.
I wonder if Daniel in the ep was projection or In-Head?
That was an excellent episode. Like many others I was concerned about the pace of the first forty minutes, but when I realized what was going on I was very impressed with how the ep was structured. -
I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that when someone called him the Admiral that might mean he is the Admiral.
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FAT LEE
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3 eps to go and i dont know either the answers or the questions posed. i do remember that they're down to their last toothpaste. and i can't blame halo for fraking boomer, hell they all look alike. i'm just surprised that no one managed to successfully cap him for being a traitor. what disturbs me most is the 180 that these skin jobs have done with the alleigence to the fllet and humanity. i hate cylons they destroyed my world. whoops i'm a skin job? fuck humanity, let's abandon these fuckers. starbuck is asking random hallucienations playing pianos about the meaning of her existence, is she a clone or a double? well maybe you shouldnt have burnt the fucking ship and should have told everyone what the fuck was going on.
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in heads are not just cylons. everyone forgets that adamas wife was an in head for one episode. baltar was caprica 6's in head for a short time. projection is for everyone. caprica 6 taught that to baltar. edward james olmos said this was going to be a dark ending. everyone is going to die and projection will be the paradise they all end up at. or something.
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Lee's fat suit!
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First off, there was a post made earlier about how Daniel Greywood resurrected Adama's sister Tamara as well as some other girl. Who is Daniel Greywood? (perhaps the cylon Daniel?) and how the hell can you possibly know that? Nothing on BSG has ever made mention of those characters or the fact that that has happened? Just a little curious is all.
Also, this is just a theory I have on Starbuck. So far in the show we've been introduced to the 7th cylon, Daniel. However, we've not seen him or been given a full explanation of what happened to him, only that Cavill did something to him that the Cylons consider to be worse than boxing. I have a theory that Daniel was re-programmed and forced to live among the humans, much like the Final Five, only his entire line was destroyed so he was made mortal and forced to realize his own mortality. Throughout his life living with the humans he married and had a daughter, Kara, The Skinjobs becoming aware of this information created clone bodies for this Kara, so they would be able to preserve the first human/cylon hybrid.
Basically, I think the explanation of what's happening with Kara is somehow linked to what happened to this Daniel cylon. -
Anyone that pays attention knows that in-heads aren't just Cylons because, duh, In-Head Baltar appeared to Baltar. There's also no reason to believe that Adama's wife was an in-head.
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...to all the a-holes who say either BSG or Lost "is dying", "sucks ass" or has "jumped the shark", you're incorrect. Both of these shows, while certainly flawed in places, are SO much better than anything else that's out there right now (or have BEEN out there for quite some time!)
Stop whining and enjoy! We'll miss these shows when they're gone.
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There's way too many people caring about what may or may not happen on Caprica.
As for Daniel: it was explained that Daniel could not be resurrected because his fluid was tainted or something. The supposition is that Starbuck's daddy is Daniel before Cavil shut him down. -
Agreed. The look on Chief's face was Emmy worthy and right up there with Chazz Palminteri (Agent Kujan) at the end of USUAL SUSPECTS when he realized that he'd been played by Keyser Soze.
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I knew this episode would be good as soon as she returned last week. Everything she's done has been gold. From struggling with the realization that she was a Cylon, to shooting Adama, to getting shot by Cally, to her return to Cylon society (in "Downloaded" one of my favorite episodes), to masterminding the occupation, to the time she suggested killing baby Hera on the baseship, to the mindfuck of her screwing Cavil and siding against the rebels (and her entire line), to manipulating the Chief in this episode. She's one messed up Cylon. Athena is way less interesting as a character (very one-track; you get the feeling she'd happily throw Helo to the wolves if it would help Hera). I doubt she'll survive what's coming though.
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While I can buy that hyper-jumping could cause massive damage to anything in the immediate vicinity, it does raise the question of why the heck the Cylon Raiders (all of which, or "whom" if you prefer, seem to have FTL drives) haven't been trying to use this trick since the pilot. I mean, we've seen Galactica hit by frakking *nukes* and take less damage, even taking into account that the Big G is currently fragile. Sure, you have to be practically touching your target, but if you throw waves of raiders at BSG, some of them will make it through, and the rest would have gotten resurrected anyway in the early seasons.
By the way, can I just say what a relief it is that the above is my only quibble with this episode? Like last week's it was largey character-driven. The difference IMO is in the execution (which involves many more factors than just the writing). This week, plot, characters, and editing *worked*. Last week, not so much. And I don't think that people's likes/dislikes of the particular writers involved has much to do with the difference in reactions, for *most* people.
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His name was "Slick."
Nothing in this episode advanced the theory that #7Daniel is Starbuck's father. If anything, it made that possibility seem less likely. Starbuck's dad was not named Daniel (Daddy's first name was on the tape). The piano player is identified as slick. Starbuck's father appears to be fairly old in the picture, which jibes well with what we know about Starbuck's mother (she was also fairly old, as she fought in the original Cylon war) but doesn't add up well with what we know about Daniel.
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Well said. IMHO it is striking that Boomer is in part BSG's Lady Macbeth now. Also, it seems that Cavil is much more capable since she has been with him.
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ep17....the entire Chief/Boomer thing made me grow a vagina.
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that there is NO way that #7Daniel isn't Starbuck's father. Just that the last episode didn't do much for that theory.
Daniel may be:
1. Daniel Graystone
2. Just some random Cylon who happened to be named Daniel and won't contribute further to the story.
2. A Cylon MODELED after, but not a clone/recreation of Daniel Graystone (like Cavil is modeled after Ellen's dad).
3. Starbuck's dad.
4. Zak Adama (seems pretty damn doubtful, though) -
Feb 28, 2009 3:10:11 PM CST
"you get the feeling she'd happily throw Helo to the wolves if i
by shan
"you get the feeling she'd happily throw Helo to the wolves if it would help Hera"
She's actually said she'd do it! -
Didn't that partly come about because they ran out of money?
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There are mixed reports about that, however. EVEN if they did run out of cash for NGE the series , they had tons of budget (Asuke 7 Angel fight) for the two "new" ending movies, which both also fell into the sam contrived art house nonsense endings. once you see that, I doubt they ran out of money on the series, Anno is just a jerkoff that screwed the fans of a proper ending, and some kind of real story telling after doing such an interesting job with great plot, imagery and characters mixed with Sci fi, sounds like Nu BSG no?
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dies next week.
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That's an awesome theory that I already posted last night at 9:50!
I'm not knocking you dude. Great mind's think alike. -
"Nothing on BSG has ever made mention of those characters or the fact that that has happened?" -- those are all details that have been leaked from the BSG spinoff/prequel show _Caprica_.
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Is that Anders in a hybrid tank grabbing Starbucks arm?
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episodes like this always bring out the idiots who are convinced that this show is about plot first and characters second. This has never been the case. You could say that the plot hasn't progressed on a consistent, episode by episode basis, but that doesn't matter. This is a show about characters, not action in s pace. A character or characters have evolved in every single episode, and are dramatically different then they were at the start. In that respect, the progression of the show has been solid, but you could reasonably say there have been a couple pot holes in the road, but the people who hate on episodes like this just 'don't get' the show. It will be interesting to see the ratio of people who hate/love the final episode. OH and by the way, galactica is not the dying leader. Too many people have jumped on the bandwagon, but the bottom line is roslin is dying and adama could be dying... this is one plot point of the prophecy that we have known like forever.
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roslin will not die next week because she made a statment about finally knowing what the show was all about when she got the script. She will most likely be left alive for the final episode, unless there is a flashback, or unless she's present in the opera house explanation.
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In the podcast, RDM says that he was hoping to misdiect the audience into thinking that "Slick" was NOT Kara's dad.
RDM said he was hoping the audience would think he was a new love interest for Kara, OR A CYLON.
Does that put a nail in the coffin over the whole "#7 is Starbuck's dad" theory? Seems like it. Maybe not, but it certainly doesn't help that theory. -
Neon Genesis Evangelion is one of those shows with a weird history. I seem to remember that the original 25th/26th episode was found too way out there by even the Japanese audience so they re-did it with End of Evangelion which had more of what people wanted to see (big robots fighting).
When I was last in Japan, I got to see the Rebuild of Evangelion 1.0, which is kind of a reboot but in fact is the next cycle of things repeating themselves (but with some variations). It in fact ends with a character who was killed in the series waking up on the moon and saying "Here we go again". -
All of this has happened before and all of this has happened again ... and it has (on Lexx! which had the same concept except that everything that happened was *exactly* the same).
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Good morning all. Everyone still psyched out?
Some thoughts -
- The Song. Only the Final Five have heard it, possibly Ellen heard it at the Nebula, assuming she was on one of the baseships that was there. (That would've been a cool scene in ep 15, showing her hearing that song. It's unclear from this ep if she recognized it.)
- Anders played the song on Earth 2000 years ago.
- Kara's father taught her the song. Everyone's assuming her father is Daniel, which, of course, is a cool possibility. But how would Daniel know the song? Ooooh, but at that point, when Daniel was created, the Final Five had all their memories, Ellen could have taught him the song. Fascinating. Did the Final Five see what was coming, John's betrayal, set up a signal for themselves? Was it Daniel's way of letting the Final Five know one of him had survived? Is it all happenstance?
Just fascinating. More questions than answers, but it would seem clear Daniel was Kara's father. No one else could have known that song. -
"More questions than answers, but it would seem clear Daniel was Kara's father. No one else could have known that song"
... except that someone else DID know that song. Hera. She wasn't taught it by Anders or Ellen. Her dad wasn't "Daniel." As such, there's no guarantee that Starbuck's dad is Daniel. -
drturing and WickedJacob for the info and corrections!
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sorry i lumped everyone into the same classification as "not knowing what theyre talking about" its just that i come here to see if anyone has any good ideas based on clues that theyve picked up during the series and instead i have to sift through a ton of "IMHO" shit because thats what they want to see. call me naive, but i hope the writers have given us clues throughout and the episode with adama and his wife has always stuck with me as something more than just a filler episode.
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the song doesn't simply exist in the Final Five's fuzzy memories of Earth.
The song appears supernaturally to the Final Five. When RDM was explaining the song, he said that the song was something deeper; something that a musician on Earth was able to tap into. He suggests that Bob Dylan tapped into it at some point. That Kara's father played the song isn't necessarily an indication that he is a Cylon. -
'Scuse me for butting in, and apologies if it has already been covered, but, how did Boomer know where to find the fleet when she took Elen there? I assume no one on Cabel's base star knew, or they would have already jumped in, all guns blazing. And a Raptor only has short range jump facility, so either they are pretty close to each other, or Boomer had to make several jumps to reach the fleet, which would make it even more unlikely she guessed lucky.
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That mgrs45 guy was wrong when he was ranting about Cloverfield being Voltron.
Think about it, the FF represent different "pieces". They all assemble to form Voltron, the only defense against the Cavil. Voltron is the dying leader because he dies in the finale.
Thrace is the pilot of voltron, the master pilot. That's here role. Thrace makes a final stand and kills Voltron in the process, with the passengers of one of those bio-ships that grow food saying "it's a lion, IT'S HUGE" as fucking Voltron goes smashing in. Boom baby.
Hera is the only one who can pilot the eventual nuVOLTRON ™ to new new new new new Caprica, where they have dope ass space dope. Roslin Smokes said dope ass dope, and bill gets his mustache back along with a monkey and a Japanese kid named "Speed".
Daniel was really a McGuffin and Voltron destroying Earth in the last ep and dying trying to save Galactica is the end. -
- Everyone seems to think Daniel will be a part of Caprica, but how could he be? He isn't created until after the First War, so unless he travels back in time ...
- So ... it's kinda hitting me here ... Kara is a Human/Cylon hybrid. She's like Hera. Which explains how she could go through Organic Memory Transfer, but where did she ressurect? Who built the viper? I shudder to think it's all another ruse of John/Cavill's, of possibly all the Cylons. No, because no one else could see that Heavy Raider in the Maelstrom. It wasn't real. Hmmm.
- Fascinating stuff. Looks like it's all coming together. Completely mind blowing, well written sci fi, which is a rarity these days. -
While I will surely be accused of being a "hater", let me first say that the first two seasons of BSG had me absolutely mesmerized--I would certainly have been among those calling it the best show on television. That being said, since the show runners abandoned the humanity-fighting-for-survival plot line for the "we are all Cylons now" nonsense, this show is as far from good television as one can get--each successive episode has my eyes rolling so far back into my head, I can see my brain. I can only surmise that those who dutifully argue that this is still the best show on television either A) are too invested in the show to admit that it went off the rails long ago; or B) easily entertained.
Nothing on BSG today makes any sense in the context of what was established in the pilot miniseries or the first two seasons of the show. Too many plot lines have been established, only to have been severely altered or abandoned altogether for any rational person to accept as anything other than sloppy writing. Everyone likes to discuss the meaning of the "In-Head" Cylons, but does anyone have a clear explanation for them? In the first season, only Baltar experiences this phenomenon; at first, we are led to believe that this is the manifestation of his guilt for being the unwitting pawn in the Cylon's genocidal attack on humanity. This was a clean explanation for the "In-Head 6", but the writers obviously weren't satisfied with such a simple solution, so they continued to muddy the the waters to the point where no explanation will ever be suitable.
Anyone remember when Starbuck jumped back to Caprica to retrieve some artifact that would help show the way to Earth? This is where she met Anders, and when we are treated to a Caprica 6 model experiencing an "In-Head Baltar". This led us to believe that perhaps Baltar was one of the Cylon models, but that turns out to be a dead end, and the "In-Head Baltar" is quickly abandoned.
Then there's the nature of the "In-Head 6" itself. Is it psychological, or something more? Since no one else appears to be able to see them, it is assumed that they are possibly psychic projections of some sort, until we are treated to an episode in which Baltar, having been assaulted, is held up in the air like a marionette by the unseen "In-Head 6"! This is never explained, and the ability for the "In-Head" Cylons to manifest physically is abandoned. My guess? No explanation will ever be given, because the writers do not have one.
With only four episodes left, I don't hold out any hope for any of this tangled mess to be straightened out. They blew the original conclusion of finding Earth and escaping the Cylon threat by actually finding Earth at the end of last season, only to discover it nuked and uninhabitable. Now what? With only four episodes left, and the last 2 doing absolutely nothing to move the plot (if one still exists) forward, what will the show runners do for a finale? Will they use the tired "it was all a dream" cliche, or perhaps a Star Trek: Enterprise cop out in which the creators of the Cylons on Earth run some sort of Holodeck-style simulation to see how their experiment will play out in history? Or will it simply end, with nothing to explain all the contradictions and abandoned plot lines, while the writers of BSG: Caprica work to erase the history established in the pilot miniseries and amazing first two seasons of BSG? My guess is the latter.
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How come noone has ever brought up the past relationship Kara had with Zack? It's like it's been forgotten. Also, why hasn't anyone brought up the fact that maybe it's Daniel who is orchestrating all of this? He could be on the side of "good" while Cavil is on the side of "evil" The reason he isn't showing himself to everyone is the fact that when he died his consciousness didn't download but was set adrift in space or something of the sort.
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Voltron's softwarez programs.
You see Voltron must assemble. The softwarez make sure of this.
How will they fake it out for four more glorious eps you say mach? Well Voltron destroys Earth, and thats it. Sorry. -
He made it so the consciousness didn't redownload in a body.
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Watching the final five morph into animals morphing into botz to a "bear mc creary score lol" while in slow motion epic photography equals EPIC.
Galactica also turns into a Cheeta. -
i'm disappointed with what we've learned about the final five. There were those scenes where the final five were shown as bodies glowing white with light. Now we learn they're just scientists, basically. I'm worried that the final five will never be revealed to be something more than scientists--i wanted them to be more mystical, or tapped into the one true god... its like on lost where at first the others were kind of presented as a tribe of (for lack of a better word) indigenous island dwellers, then we learn they were scientists... its like they make us ask these questions and draw conclusions but are not able to reveal them to be as unique as originally presented. BSG has been so depressing (the tone of the show, not the quality) and i really want to see a well done happy ending to make all the suffering serve a purpose. I don't want it to be a downer, but i think that's what's going to happen. Last nights episode didn't look like it was going to be good, but those final ten minutes made the mediocre first 30 sooo much better... it built to a very good payoff. Scenes from next week look damn good.
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Feb 28, 2009 4:38:28 PM CST
Oh, and the people who compare this to Evangelion are shamefully
by paragoncomplex
You people really are. Shamefully ignorant in monolithic and epic proportions. I subscribe to the idea that no theory is a dumb theory... until I saw that one.
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wow hadn't thought of Hera. (same mistake everyone on Galactica made.) Well, Hera didn't know the song exactly, she drew a pattern. Clearly, she's in touch with ... well, Ellen's line, "she's plugged into something that's manipulating all of us." But yeah, that means the Head Folks could have given the tune to a random piano player, something. Daniel could have known the song, but it's somehow more, right, because ... how did the Final Five hear it, at the nebula? Why then?
- I still think there's something back at that nebula. Galactica loosing power just as its about to scan the area, seems too obvious a defensive move, something was protecting itself from being noticed.
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That's not a small plot point to gloss over. She returned from the fraking dead! She spent some time asking " What am I? ". So there's got to be more of it than what we've seen. Also as Ellen said last night there's something else manipulating everyone behind the scenes. An element we haven't seen. This show has sometimes loosely followed the old BSG plot lines. So is there a ship of lights and aliens more advanced ( like gods ) manipulating things?
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Also I always thought it was odd that the president seemed to almost faint at the moment everyone lost power in that nebula.
Something odd happened there. Also that's where SB reappeared. -
Very funny!
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Q: Is Admiral Adama/Lee/Starbuck the dying leader? A: No. None of these candidates 1) are suffering from a wasting disease or 2) saw a vision of serpents. Only Roslin qualifies as the dying leader.
Q: Why did Tigh age? Explanation: There's nothing to indicate that manipulating Tigh's age is impossible or even difficult. This is not a continuity error. At no point has it been said that any of the Cylons DON'T age. Cavil may simply have introduced a re-resurrected Tigh in his 20s-40s. Since the science behind creating Skinjobs has yet tobe explained, we must simply assume that manipulating age is possible.
Q: If they were so advanced, why didn't Earth have FTL technology? A: Why does Japan make better electronics and Finland makes better phones? Again, this is not a continuity error. Some cultures simply do better jobs at creating certain things. It may be that space travel was less important to Earth, who had no neighbors (unlike the 12 colonies, who had to travel through space to see each other). You don't expect superiority in EVERY field of acheivement to be held by a single culture in real life, so why are applying such a standard to the show?
Q: Why are the Colonial Centurions following Colonial Skinjobs? Remember last season? A six named Natalie, along with the Leobens and Sharons wanted to STOP Cavil from lobotomizing Raiders and inhibiting the thoughts of Centurions. Cavil mysteriously opposed this... NOW we realize that Cavil knew what happened to Earth Cylons and Earth Centurions. Cavil wanted to inhibit Centurions and Raiders because he did not want a repeat of Earth (or the 12 Colonies, for that matter).
Q: Aren't the Final Five actually humans who cloned themselves? A: No. The Final Five were BORN Cylon. Everyone on Earth was a Cylon. Earthlings are the descendants of the Cylons who were expelled from Kobol, also called the 13th tribe. Tigh, Ellen, Tory, Anders, and Tyrol were all BORN on Earth and were thus Cylons BEFORE they died, and were resurrected to look for the other 12 tribes.
Q: Were there any humans on Earth before it was destroyed? A: No. The first humans to set foot on Earth came from Galactica.
Q: Why did Ellen create the Earth Centurion Cylons? A: There is NO evidence to suggest that any of the Final FIve had anything to do with the creation of any Centurions.
Q: What's the deal with the timeline? Did the exodus from Kobol and the destruction of Earth happen at the same time? A: Yes. According to Tyrol's statement on the Algae Planet, the 13th tribe left 1,600-2,000 years BEFORE the other 12 colonies left. Why this happened is unclear. As such, around the time Earth was destroyed, the 12 colonies left Kobol. It may be that the gods, or perhaps the One True God, expelled the humans from Kobol BECAUSE Earth was destroyed. Zeus warned the humans not to return. The goddess Athena also committed suicide at this point in time. Alternately, it may be that the humans left Kobol and then returned, only to be booted out again. Alternately, it may be that returning to Kobol was PART of the Cycle that happens again and again (most recently when the 12 colonies led by Adama and Roslin left to find their new home).
Q: Was Adama's memory changed? Why did he see Tigh 20 years ago if Tigh was a Cylon? A: Adama DID NOT have his memory changed. Cavil introduced the Final FIve gradually. Tigh was reintroduced in a younger before shortly after the end of Cylon War 1 almost 40 years ago.
Q: How did the Final Five survive Earth's holocaust? A: They didn't. They died, and were resurrected on a spaceship were copies of them were waiting. When they awoke in the ship, they left Earth's system for the 12 colonies to warn them of disaster.
Q: Wait a sec. How is it that the Temple of Five/Hopes was created 4,000 years ago when the 13th tribe left 3600 years ago. A: There are 2 answers. First, the 3600 figure is for when the Pythian Prophecy was written, NOT necessarily when the 13th tribe left. It may be the 13th tribe left 4000 years ago, but was not recorded until Pythia 3600-2000 years ago. Second answer: There is no definitive proof that the 13th tribe built the Temple of Five/Hopes.
Q: How did Cavil sneak the FF into society? A: Unknown. Here's some speculation: Cavil may have chosen to give Tigh a background involved with the Brenik BECAUSE there were so few survivors in that battle.
Q: How did the 13th Tribe see the other tribes in Constellations. A: Take your pick: 1. It's metaphorical, like telling someone far away that you are both looking at the same sky. 2. The 13th tribe knew where the other tribes would go if they were ever to leave Kobol. 3. God told them.
Q: Who is Daniel? A: This is unknown, but some things can be said about Daniel. First, the exclusions: Daniel CANNOT be Baltar. Baltar has been told by Head 6 that he is not a Cylon. She may have lied, but even if she did, Baltar is known to Ellen and Anders, neither of whom mentioned Baltar being Daniel when they were questioned. Also, Cavil killed the #7 line out of jealousy, yet he could have killed Baltar immediately following the Caprica invasion when Baltar was a puppet figure (though he did suggest doing so at one point, there was no jealousy evident there, simply a desire to send a message to New Capricans about authority).
So who is Daniel? Ron Moore's Podcast said that Daniel would feature in Caprica. We already know that the Caprican Skinjobs creator (no, not Ellen or the FF. They came later.) is named Daniel Graystone, who took his daughter's technology of creating life (actually creating a perfect copy of a human personality/mind/soul) and applied it to organic bodies (Pre-FF Skinjob Cylons). This guy is most likely Daniel. We know that Ellen, Tigh, Anders, Tory, and Tyrol created Cylon copies of themselves. We know that Daniel Graystone created a copy of his daughter. Thus, it seems entirely plausible that a Cylon version of Daniel Greystone was created as #7, and was killed by Cavil.
Other legitimate possibilities: -Daniel is Starbuck's father. Evidence? Not much. Starbuck's father is a piano player, and Daniel is an artist.
-Daniel is Starbuck. Possible as Daniel's genetic soup was corrupted by Cavil Evidence? Starbuck is an artist. Starbuck has returned from the dead. Evidence to the contrary: No one knows how the hell Starbuck returned. If Starbuck IS Daniel, then she is probably a pawn of Cavil.
-Daniel is Starbuck AND is Daniel Graystone. If Graystone was #7, it is posible Kara is just a realignment of genes and chromosomes.
-Daniel is Starbuck's father AND Daniel Grasytone. Now it's just getting silly.
-Daniel is Zak Adama. Extremely unlikely. If this is so, then the only explanation is that someone swapped Zak Adama with Daniel at a VERY young age, fooling Admiral Adama and his wife.
-Daniel is simply Daniel. He is not a copy of anyone already mentioned or seen on this show or in the upcoming Caprica series, and is simply a throwaway character created to fill in a plothole/continuity error. Evidence: Ron Moore admits that there was a plot hole in the Cylon numbering. He states that he DID NOT want the show to turn into "who is the 13th Cylon?" Oops. Guess you gave your audience too much credit. -
Feb 28, 2009 4:57:58 PM CST
why did Boomer and the Chief talk to each other over the phone
by m00kiedood
when she was in lock up, and they were standing 3 feet apart with an open wire screen between them?
I mean, they touched hands through the screen. Why did they need to use the phones?
I love this series, and I'm glad for it. But I have to echo some of the negative feedback on this episode. Aside from Hera getting snatched, it really didn't advance the plot much or do much for me.
At a point where they should be tightening in on the end, on the core stroy, with just 3 episodes left, they instead put it the drawn out piano bit this week ... while a couple weeks ago Anders Exposition raced tied together a ton of plot threads in like 2 minutes.
I don't know... three episodes to go, and you think they'd be tightening in on the core. No Lee. No Rosalyn, no Baltar, very little Bill.
Why couldn't Kara's introspective journey involve Lee or Bill or something, instead of inventing a mysterious character who we will likely never see again.
I do love this series, and I am happy over all, but this felt thin to me. -
Seriously dissapointed with this "big finish" so far.
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you're fighting a losing battle with that guy. we cant just enjoy a show, it has to make sense completely, down to the last detail or its "jumped the shark"...dont ya know ? lol... i am of the opinion that the characters have evolved the way real people do. making choices and decisions based on nothing but whim....i know lots of people that do that...its always made sense to me ...but as i like to repeat quite frequently... i realize im watching a TV show...some if not most of the posters that whine and complain about it obviously dont...must b young...his comments show it.... he obvioulsy missed the mess that was TV in the 80s....where shows constantly "jumped the shark"...i bet he dont even know where the phrase originated...everything on TV today is worlds better than anything on TV in the late 70s and 80s....im sure starbuck will be explained tho
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Was I the only one that thought his brain was on vacation when he ordered the pod retracted? You have an escaping prisoner who faces immediate execution upon recapture, and you think she ISN'T going to engage the FTL drive and possibly destroy the ship?!
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Your explanation of Tighe's age is simply ad Hoc, and does nothing to alleviate the continuity problem. You can't simply make up your own explanation to cover for the obvious contradictions made by the writers of BSG. Sure, at no point has it been said that the Cylons DON'T age, but we've been given lots of circumstantial evidence that they don't. Case in point: Ellen Tighe--the final of the "Final Five"--was resurrected as the same age she was, both when Saul killed her, and when the original Ellen died on Earth. Not only that, but once resurrected, Cavil complains to her about why she designed his model with such an aged body.
The lack of evidence for Cylon aging does constitute evidence for it, nor does it work to explain the discontinuity in the writing. It only underscores the sloppiness of it. That said, I fully expect for BSG: Caprica to shoehorn in an explanation such as yours, but it will only add to the contradictions, not alleviate them. BSG went off the rails in season 3, and has been flailing for a purpose ever since the writers abandoned the original premise for the "We're all Cylons now" nonsense.
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During the scene where Athena enters the Pilots' Briefing Room after being beaten by Boomer: RDM: "Whoa. That's just--This is just, you know, this is where your stomach falls away." (in the background Athena screams upon realizing that Boomer has Hera) "Ugh. It's just so horrible. It's so horrible, it _must_ be Battlestar Galactica!" Bwahahahahaha! And that's why I LOVE this show! It's so damn bleak!
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Is NOT Daniel. Likewise, Kara's father is not Daniel. Building off my Singularity theory above, Kara's father is an Emissary (a term that should apply to RDM) from the post-Singularity civilization that has created and manifested the in-head/phantom characters and visions. I think that the post-Singularity colony realized that they could possibly use the Final Five as a bridge between the Colonials and Colonial skin-jobs and centurions to broker a peace where they could all then, together, join in a higher, more socially advanced society. They've done so using All Along the Watchtower as a sort of Pavlovian trigger to guide Kara and the Final Five to their physical and metaphysical destination of reunification not only with the Cylons, but with the final post-Singularity society.
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"...is an Emissary (a term that should apply to RDM)..." -- A term that should _appeal_ to RDM.
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May be the aging feature is another difference between Earthling Cylons and traditional skinjobs?
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Not great but it was a big improvement over the previous 2 duds.
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for ending as fast as possible, to make way for stargate universe.
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Cylon skin-jobs, including the Earth versions, are biomechanical machines built from the ground up. Is it so hard to understand that, given that they were engineered, that they could turn aging on and off like a light switch, or that they could grow a clone at any specific age desired? Obviously there have to be some concessions to reality. They can't de-age Kate Vernon in real life so she can play an Ellen Tigh in her 20s or 30s. As far as Cavil's psychology goes, he hates his physical biological existence. He is obviously consumed by his own self-loathing. It's not a stretch to imagine that--even if he does have the capability to modify his biomechanical programming (beyond the age switches)--that he would choose not to modify his own age just to help focus and feed his hatred for his own existence. How many people do you know in real life who hate their own physical image, yet are paralyzed by self-loathing or apathy to actually do anything about it? Assuming that they do have the ability to modify their biomechanical programming to change the age and aging of their clones, I imagine he'd keep Ellen's age the same simply to piss her off. I'm sure, given Ellen's predilections, she'd love to have a nice 20 or 30 year old body to use in her seductions, but no, Cavil chose to spite her by returning her to her mid-40s body instead.
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Yes, because Lou Diamond Phillips is such an accomplished thespian. Take your Science-fantasy crap and shove it up your ass. Some of us happen to like programming that doesn't hit a reset switch every episode.
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right now now. big action scene with lots of people dying and shit, the way u BSG fanboys like it.
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"Your explanation of Tighe's age is simply ad Hoc, and does nothing to alleviate the continuity problem."
As I pointed out, there's nothing to indicate that it IS a continuity problem. There has never been any mention that skinjobs don't age.
As such, you can't claim that as a continuity problem. You simply have a scenario where AN ASSUMPTION (Cylons don't age) has been challenged by the introduction of new information.
"Sure, at no point has it been said that the Cylons DON'T age, but we've been given lots of circumstantial evidence that they don't."---Yep. Circumstantial evidence. That's called LACK OF PROOF. In order to have a continuity error, you must demonstrate PROOF of error, not simply evidence.
" Not only that, but once resurrected, Cavil complains to her about why she designed his model with such an aged body."--- Go back and rewatch the episode. Cavil IS complaining about his appearance, but he doesn't specifically say he is complaining about his age. He could just as easily be complaning about having to look at Dean Stockwell's ugly mug, or could be griping about being modeled after a human (as he does later in the episode) instead of something more machine-like.
"The lack of evidence for Cylon aging does constitute evidence for it"--- Sorry, but you have the burden of proof, not the creators. At the moment, you are arguing a LOGICAL FALLACY called argument from ignorance: "In an argument from ignorance, the speaker asserts "X implies not Y", where Y is believed to be, but cannot be proven, true, rather than something which is provably contradictory." Where X= we have not seen any younger versions of the Cylons previously and Y = Cylons don't age.
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You beat me to it. My god TV used to be bad. For every "Mary Tyler Moore Show" or "Mash" there was a mountain of the absolute worst drek imaginable. Have any of you young guns actually seen an episode of "My Three Sons". That show moves so slowly time actually starts to run backwards.
In the 70s Manix or some other TV detective would meet the love of his life, see her murdered, catch the killer and give him a beat down. Next week Manix is fine like nothing happened.
Say what you will about BSG but in that show actions and events have consequences. The fact that the Galactica is falling apart from all the pounding it has taken may be one of the greatest things in TV history.
The characters on this show are at the end of their rope, their desperate and not thinking clearly. Where else except maybe "The Shield" have you seen characters get ground down by their desperate circumstances.
I sound like a broken record but, please wait for the end of the show. We still have three hours of story (without commercials). That is like one and a half feature films. So let us wait until the end. Then if you want to shit all over it, go for it. I may be inclined to agree with you or I may debate you but, we will all have the complete picture. -
Interesting how Anders's coma was consistent on the monitor. Could he be projecting some kind of cylon projection onto Starbuck?
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its for people who cant be bothered to think about what they are watching and want the show to think for them. and BSG fans like those characters coz they give em a sense of gratitude for not being in their position or living in space. so BSG is for poor people like yourselves.
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a circumcised one.
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Star Wars: The Clone Wars
30 Rock
Damages
Terminator:TSCC
Mark and Olly: Living With the Machigenga(Sundays at 10pm on Travel channel) 10,000 times better than Survivior.
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Did I misread the era of the show? Doesn't it take place before the First War. Daniel wasn't created until after the armistace. How could he have existed then - unless it's a Head Daniel. Hmm.
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It's just that none of them seem to live long enough to show any signs of it.
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Unfortunately, not really. The problem with the show isn't that punishments aren't always proportional to crimes (that's like real life) - the problem is that the punishments (or lack of them) are wildly disproportionate to the crimes to the point where they're often not credible. Ie the fact that Helo and Athena never get punished for *anything* and then there's Baltar ...
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That is the way I understood the exposition in Deadlock. The Final Five arrived during the First Cylon War, and persuaded the Colonial Centurions to end the war. In exchange, the Final Five would create Colonial Cylon skin-jobs. I too, am mystified how Daniel could possibly be in Caprica, unless the series Bible is written to take the series through the First Cylon War (in which case it would cover over a decade, at least, since William Adama is a child at the start of the series, and a pilot during the war) to the aftermath. Unless, as Tai_Pan and others think, Daniel was "patterned" in some way after Daniel Graystone, the creator of the Colonial Centurions.
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Tai_pan, you have done some great work there. And InActionMan, I feel the same way..that's EXACTLY how I have interpreted the last few episodes....that the survivors feel it's the penultimate straw..that they have lost hope...even Adama, who gives Baltar weapons and doesn't really give a shit.
Three episodes left. Lets see how this goes before bashing the show with hate sticks. -
DioxHolster, that describes every Stargate show, not Battlestar Galactica.
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The exposition in No Exit, not Deadlock.
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Considering how much coverage this show gets on here..I'm thinking that the number of lovers far outnumbers the haters.
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As the one making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you, not me. The show runners themselves have yet to give any credible explanation for the glaring discontinuity they've written themselves into, so I'm under no logical obligation to prove anything--I'm simply assuming what the writers themselves have already revealed: That the various Cylon models were all created for a specific purpose, and with a specific body, and each model resurrects identical to the one that died before it, and there has been no aging in the process. This is reinforced by the fact that Helen Tighe resurrects as the same age she died, both on New Caprica and on Earth, and when Cavil laments his purposeful design as an elderly man.
If you intend to present the unfounded claim that Cylons can control the aging process, then the burden of proof is on you to prove your assertion. Until such time, the glaring discontinuity remains, and the prime reason why I consider the writing of BSG from season 3 onward to be evidence that the show runners are completely winging it from week to week. -
Don't bother engaging him unless you're just insulting him. He's a fucking troll. Don't waste your time trying to engage in an honest discourse with him, since he is obviously disinterested in such.
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Because "Daniel" may very well be Daniel Graystone, a character from "Caprica."
In the show "Caprica" we learn that some humans were brought back to life as Cylons BEFORE the Final Five arrived. As such, Daniel Graystone may have been reincarnated as the #7 model of the same name. -
Just accept it for the fun TV that it is. If people picked apart 24 and decided that it's plot holes were reason enought to stop watching then it would never have got a second season.
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You're barking up the wrong tree. Whether the Cylon skin-jobs can age, have the aging switch turned off, or have their clones artificially aged to any specific age is completely irrelevant to the story. This is the sort of technobabble that the writers have SPECIFICALLY tried to avoid from the start of the miniseries. Many of the writers come from Star Trek TNG and DS9, and have a lot of experience with how established pseudo-science technobabble can limit drama. As such, they had no interest in writing themselves into a dramatic corner such that they could do some specific story line because they had already established that graviton particles interact with solaron fields to produce subspace instability. Yeah. Sucks, doesn't it? I recall an anecdote that Olmos told RDM that if the show ever devolved into technobbable, or if they ever met aliens, that he would quit. He wasn't interested in the technobabble story/wrinkly forehead of the week aliens, he wanted to work on a dramatic series about THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD.
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"...such that they could _NOT_ do some..."
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...its inelegant. Too many strange mythology elements (not in the literal sense, just clues to the workings of the show's universe) have been introduced at various points in the series that will be difficult to unite. They MAY be able to tie it all together by the last episode, but I'm thinking that if they do, some of it will seem a little forced.
Which, btw, is why I think LOST is a superior show. That show's mythology is a little convoluted, but it all fits together rather well. Its an extraordinarily well thought-out show, whereas BSG sometimes seems a little slapped together.
I still tune in every Friday night though, flaws be damned! -
"she's plugged into something that's manipulating all of us." -- In the final episode, they ask "so who is it who's been manipulating us," and suddenly Ron Moore and David Eick appear, and one of them says "guess what? we've been in charge all along!" and the other one says "charge? charge?" and electrocutes the first one. Fade to black.
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Why the fuck isn't this episode online yet?
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Don't have it all worked out, but my theory is that Cavil wants Hera because hybrids have the information to the other (lost) colony. A star map hidden in music, encoded by Daniel or someone else to only come out when there are hybrids, showing that Cylons and humans are at peace Cavil thinks Hera is the only Hybrid. But Starbuck is another hybrid. The last episodes are going to be the race to the colony/earth/earth2/Terra whatever the hell it is that the star map leads them to.
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"As the one making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you,"
You're wrong on 2 accounts:
First: The first objection was raised by those claiming a continuity error (NOT me, a person reacting in response to that claim). As such, THOSE WHO CLAIM CYLONS DON'T AGE HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF.
Second: I never said Cylons DO age. The only assertion I made is that there has been no proof to show that they do not age. This assertion is correct (no such proof exists). I have met my criteria and have no additional burdens of proof.
BoP is on you, Mach 6.
"The show runners themselves have yet to give any credible explanation for the glaring discontinuity they've written themselves into, so I'm under no logical obligation to prove anything"---- You're simply wrong. You bear the burden of proof because you raised the initial objection. At some point, you and several others said "Cylons don't age." Up until that point, there was no controversy. Once you made that statement, you began to shoulder the burden of proof.
"If you intend to present the unfounded claim that Cylons can control the aging process"--- Yep. My evidence is that we saw him as a young man 20 years ago and then we saw him as an old man, and gosh-darnit if that rascally aging process doesn't usually have something to do with that.
Do you want this in a logic formula or something, because I promise it isn't that difficult. Res ipsa loquitur. Check into it.
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I think Sci Fi has screwed us on that.. basically the new episode doesn't show up until the following Friday.Also, maybe Cavil just wants Hera as a bargaining chip? He'll know she's important and he may use her to try to convince the 5 into helping him rebuild resurrection.
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though some are being quite condescending to people of different opinions.
People aren't "idiots" if they had expectations of where the showing was heading and is no longer heading that way.
People that are passionate about anything are more likely to be critical about that thing, that is human nature.
People often view things in absolute terms and not relative i.e. they say it's not as good as season 2 and are less likely to think and say " well it's much better that CSI"
Of course people have their own point of view of what is important in art, for some it's the story for some it's the characters, for some it's what it says about human nature and how we act.
I also am a fan of Lost and see similar levels of passion, hope some more shows can generate similar levels of passion. -
...but Boomer IMMEDIATELY shoves a bottle in Hera's mouth when she steals her. To knock her out before she realizes 'that ain't mommy'.
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what Fab Five Freddy and the Furious Final Five actually heard when Starbuck was playing. Just her one hand or the whole song?
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"WHAT AM I?!??!"Okay, I didn't actually do that, but if I had the nerve, I would....nobody would get it....
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Feb 28, 2009 8:55:54 PM CST
even an all setup ep like this still has better scenes than most
by dogmatic
The moment when Hot Dog (aka Cally's baby daddy) is preparing to engage Boomer's Raptor and says "Don't DO it!!!" and then Boomer recovering from the shock of the collision manages to toggle the FTL jump...and then that awesome FTL jump effect (one of the best TV sound effects) and then CHAOS....Galactica hammered! That was all like in 10 seconds and it was better than most hour-longs on TV today....so yeah....even on its filler episodes it is the best there is.
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Tai_Pan writes, "You're simply wrong. You bear the burden of proof because you raised the initial objection."
Fair enough. But all things being equal, the only logical assumption is that given what the BSG show runners have revealed so far, Cylons do not age--they are designed and created to look a certain way. I can no more prove that Cylons don't age, any more than you can prove that they do--we can only base our conclusion on what we have been shown thus far.
All that being said, the fact remains that assuming that the Cylons can control the aging process--despite having no legitimate reason to make such an assumption--only to explain away the glaring continuity problem is ad Hoc reasoning.
Tai_Pan writes, "At some point, you and several others said "Cylons don't age." Up until that point, there was no controversy."
Because until the writers injected the absurd notion that Saul Tighe was a Cylon, there was no controversy. It was only after the writers of BSG introduced the nonsense of the Final Five that they created a continuity problem: How could Saul Tighe be one of the Final Five, when Bill Adama had known him for 30+ years? Moore's only explanation was the vague statement that the Final Five were "fundamentally different"; given how the writing of the show had already become a meandering mess by the end of Season 3, I took this to mean that they had not yet worked out how to reconcile what they had already established for the Cylon origins and technology, with the direction they were now headed.
From the looks of things, they still haven't figured out how they're going to clean up the mess they made. -
Then possibly she got resurrected (and given a ship) by some sort of pre-Kobol civilization that are the In-Heads. They have resurrection technology (obviously), they share some sort of wavelength with all those descended from Kobol (and yes that includes the skinjobs) which allows the In-Heads to 'steer' things to their purpose. The In-Heads steered things to Earth, apparently, as, what, a warning? Everyone is getting one last chance not to frak it up?
But if the pre-Kobols/In-Heads have resurrection technologgy, then that solves Cavil's problem too. And maybe Hera isn't a bargaining chip. Maybe Cavil believes Hera can lead him to a new resurrection facility on the planet the proto-Kobols live on. Maybe the In-Heads have started talking to him?
And maybe that's the secret of the Opera House. Maybe the In-Heads *need* Hera for ... something? Maybe Cavil isn't going to bargain with the Colonials with Hera, but with the In-Heads.
A lot of shit to cover in the last few episodes, huh? -
As far as I'm concerned, nothing that we know about Caprica counts when it comes to BSG. Mostly because these eps were written and filmed before Caprica even was picked up to be a series. I'm sure RDM had left himself some 'gaps' for Caprica in case he needed it, but I doubt he would've put evidence in Caprica towards a show that would've finished airing long before Caprica started.
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The creative team behind BSG demands a lot of its audience, and unfortunately many viewers don't live up to their end of the bargain.
There's no lack of continuity regarding cylon aging. The final five are fundamentally different cylons than the 8 humanoid models they created. The final five come from a race of cylons that developed the ability to procreate by means of sexual reproduction which means, just like humans, they develop from a fertilized egg and go through an aging process similar to humans. The 8 humanoid cylon models created by the Final Five are fundamentally different. They don't age and they don't have the ability to reproduce. This is not a continuity problem. It's an audience problem. Some audience members require every last little thing spelled out for them. These are the same audience members who were totally befuddled by the revelations in "No Exit" even though they were fairly straightforward and had been hinted at for some time. -
In this episode they suggest putting Anders in a hybrid tank, which sets up the idea that a damaged Cylon can be hooked up to a hybrid tank. It would also explain why the Razor hybrid was on an old basestar being protected by old-style Centurions: he was boxed before the new basestars and new-styles Centurions were built. If he's plugged into the Universe however the other hybrids are he might be causing the in-head projections.
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the final 5 do age. anders explained the reason why they didnt age during the trip from earth to the colonies. I feel the last 3 episodes explained almost everything with the exception of starbuck and the prophecy/chatterings of the hybrids. its obvious the final 5 are a part of something even bigger than themselves and they are about to discover that.
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Who says that BSG has to devolve into technobabble in order to make sense? The problem I have with BSG is that it moved away from a clear, concise plot and story arc, to one that is so convoluted and mired in its own metaphysical nonsense that there's no point to anyone's existence anymore. I mean, when the show was about Humanity fleeing the murderous Cylons bent on destroying the entire human race, there was reason to care about their survival against seemingly insurmountable odds; there was purpose in their suffering, because there was the promise of the payoff in the end: They would find Earth, and finally be free from the Cylons.
Except that never happened. Somewhere around Season 3, it stopped being about survival against a relentless enemy, and about how "alike" Humans and Cylons were, and since then has spiraled out of control into a metaphysical quagmire that doesn't make a lick of sense, and seems to have no point or direction.
Really--what's the point of the show now? They've found Earth, but it's an uninhabitable wasteland. They've found the "Final Five" but so what? Their reveal was built up to be some game-changing event, but all they do is talk and go about their daily lives. So now what? Now that they've prepared to reveal that everyone is a Cylon, what was the fucking point of any of it?
The irony is that when BSG began, they didn't need complicated explanations for things--we knew what was going on because the basic premise had already been established back in the original 80's BSG. The Cylons were machines created by Humans, now bent on destroying the Human race. Only in the new BSG, they were now advanced to where they were physically indistinguishable from a Human being. This made it possible to create much more interesting possibilities than simply an us-versus-them story arc--there could be (and were) infiltrators into the human refugees. Who was a Cylon? The ensuing paranoia could make for useful storylines.
Because they abandoned the original, simple plot for an overly complex mess that cannot be reconciled with the story as it was originally plotted, Moore has only succeeded in replacing technobabble he wished to avoid, with metaphysical nonsense. -
Adama is a cylon. either bill, lee or zack. or maybe even joe. I still believe that adamas wife was an in-head. to be an in-head, one of you (either the in-head or the person experiencing the in-head) has to be a cylon. bill was talking to his wife and she was asking him why he keeps bringing her back. and before this is over, husker meeting the original hybrid will play into the story again.
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"the final 5 do age. anders explained the reason why they didnt age during the trip from earth to the colonies."
Really? Must have explained that when I was taking piss or something, because I don't remember it. Perhaps you'll be kind enough to explain it to me. While you're at it, explain to me why Helen Tighe is resurrected as the exact same age she was when she died, both on New Caprica AND on Earth 2,000 years before--just like all the other Cylon models. -
I think that was the writers point. from the beginning this show has been a mirror of modern day society. An race that believes in "one god", the cylons, trying to destroy the violent, primitive humans who believe in "many gods". Granted, by saying that, we're all the same and we should just get along is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but we dont know if thats were it will truly end up. If we look at ourselves and ask which is right, one god or many gods, youll find the answer is not that simple and thus battlestar galactica is not that simple and it was that way from the beginning with athena and helo. they changed the bad guys vs. good guys scenario into something far deeper all the way from the beginning.
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"But all things being equal, the only logical assumption is that given what the BSG show runners have revealed so far, Cylons do not age"
WHY? Why is it logical to assume they didn't age. You have no basis for that statement. Yes, they resurrect, but we have no idea how long ANY of the skinjobs walking around have been in their current bodies. Since the show has given NO TIME PERSPECTIVE where we could see the progression of their aging, there was never any basis to consider whether they aged... UNTIL WE LEARNED TIGH WAS A CYLON. That's what established CYlon aging; not what contradicted it. Up until that point, there was no way of knowing if the Cylons did or did not age.
""It was only after the writers of BSG introduced the nonsense of the Final Five..."---That's enough to let me know what your real issue is. My guess is that you're just angry about Tigh being a Cylon and desperately clinging to this aging business as some sort of validation for your frustration over the Final Five. -
"As far as I'm concerned, nothing that we know about Caprica counts when it comes to BSG. Mostly because these eps were written and filmed before Caprica even was picked up to be a series."---Not true for Cylon #7. Caprica was planned and penned well before the episode and writing session that introduced #7 Daniel.
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My guess is that The Old Hybrid was probably Daniel Graystone. Not a Cylon, but THE Daniel Graystone (maybe the Centurions snatched him up, hacked him into pieces and plugged him into a machine to become the First Hybrid).
I tend to think that #7Daniel is either based on Daniel Graystone (like Cavil is to Ellen's father) or that #7 is a replica of Daniel Graystone in the same way that Zoe-R is a replica of Zoe Graystone. -
her name is ellen. and i just rewatched that scene with anders, he says they had learned to procreate on earth which explains that they age. he says they travelled to the colonies at relativistic but subluminal speeds, time slowed down but thousands of years passed. now, its possible that after they resurrected, that was it, no more aging. but at this point in the show, i dont think it really matters. hera is and always will be the key to everything in the end because she was the reason for everything in the beginning (helo and athena) the sub-plot in the first season that foretold everything that were seeing play out now.
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Some of us want simple "We're good and they're bad" tv shows. And some people want and appreciate a show that explores the gray area that we live our lives in.
We already had the show that you want, with Good guys and bad guys and neat endings. The original BSG. Watch that instead. -
"Must have explained that when I was taking piss or something, because I don't remember it." -- Yes, he explained it. It's called relativity.
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In-Head Baltar appeared to Baltar, so unless Baltar is the 14th Cylon
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You've made it very clear that you don't like the Re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. So why then do you continue to post on it's TB's?
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The original Caprica miniseries takes place before the first Cylon War. Even if the person that the 7th model is based upon is in Caprica, #7 won't be there.
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I believe caprica 6 said she could teach baltar to project. so a human can project, but does he/she have to learn from a cylon? so maybe adamas wife wasnt an in-head but a projection? if we know anything about the new caprica show it is that adamas father is involved with the first creation of downloading your soul into a computer and then back into a biological being (human).
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Adama said that to Tigh. At least the Final 5 age.
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"We already had the show that you want, with Good guys and bad guys and neat endings. The original BSG." -- Actually on rewatching BSG there's a LITTLE more moral ambiguity than I'd remembered. In particular: a) When the first Imperious Leader (who wanted to destroy humanity) is blown up, the second Imperious Leader announces a change of plan; he says he wants to incorporate humanity peacefully in the Cylon Empire instead of destroying them, and he sends Baltar after the fleet with that announced intention. We never find out whether he's telling the truth. b) On Kobol, Baltar tells Adama that if Adama will make a truce with him he will lead the fleet into the heart of the Cylon Empire and help them overthrow the Cylons. Adama assumes Baltar is lying, that this is a trick to get humanity back under Cylon control; but Baltar's own Cylon assistant (Lucifer) suspects that Baltar is telling the truth and is planning to double-cross the Cylons. Since Adama doesn't take Baltar up on the offer, and Lucifer quickly acts to forestall, any such possibility, we never find out whether Baltar was sincere. Those two story points feel a lot like the new series. (Unfortunately, all this ambiguity got forgotten as the series progressed.)
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...talked on the phone is that there was reinforced glass (or plexiglass, or whatever) in between them in addition to the wire.If that simplicity escaped you, I'm sure so do a lot of other nuances of the show, which is why you think it "felt thin". My advice: stay in school, and don't be afraid to ask for help when you're confused.
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For a couple reasons. First off, let's look at two answers to the question 'What is Kara Thrace?':
Answer 1: A new entity that hasn't been encountered/explained on BSG yet that will require at least fifteen or more minutes to explain during time that would've been better off discussing something else; or
2) She's Half-Cylon and was resurrected.
Ignoring Occam for a second, let's look at it from a different angle. Let's presume Daniel is Kara's father. How else does it fit in with what we already know:
Well, we know Kara's father left and never called, never wrote. Hmmm
We know Cavil is the one that contaminated Daniel. Let's dwell on this a second. What is Cavil's biggest beef? Being a man instead of a machine. What would cause Cavil to hate Daniel? Could it be, perhaps, that Daniel loved being a man? That Daniel reveled in his resemblance to humanity? Maybe what Daniel did was to abandon his Cylon brethren and to choose to live as a human. What might he have done? Taken a wife maybe? Had a child (although we must presume at this point that if he did, no one knows)?
I am not 100% convinced that Daniel is Starbuck's father. And if there were more than 3 episodes remaining I'd probably argue against it. But it's the easiest answer to a couple puzzles. We can't ignore it. -
"here was reinforced glass (or plexiglass, or whatever) in between them in addition to the wire" -- Then how were they able to curl their fingers around each other through the mesh?
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in BSG! Yeah I'm putting it above Adama's badass New Caprica attack aswell. The way the song comes together on the piano, and then it zooms in on Tigh's face while he's thinking what the frak! Not again! And then it segues into the one we all know and love. OMG that was such an awesome scene. It really made my day. God I loved this episode. Looks like the Opera House truth will be revealed next week since Hera has now officially been kidnapped.
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Just like cavil has been orchestrating everything so that he can disect everyone and learn the secrets to creation (hera, the final 5) daniel has been orchestrating starbuck to essentially do the same thing except without disecting anyone but with actual fucking. excuse me, i mean fraking.
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the moment they introduced the bloody time-travel explanation. Isn't that the lazy way out? I was so disappointed when I realized what was actually going on. BSG > all. I kill all who say otherwise. Opinions do not belong near me!!!
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I think I had a neat little theory up above, regarding Hera and Kara being hybrids. No comments, so either nobody read it or nobody thought much of it.
But I think it could explain a lot if somewhere back in history they coded into the cylons something that would only come out if a hybrid was created, thereby showing (in theory) that humans and cylons were living in peace. (not necessarily but for the sake of argument)The hybrids would have the knowledge to bring both races to the promised land. It's the Cylons that are being manipulated for the most part by forces they don't understand. -
You really need to read what queerfilmjunkie wrote regarding why the Final Five can age. The Final Five can age. Period.
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(which may be why no one answered your theory) Hybrids are the pseudo-humans the Centurions created that operate the basestar. You start throwing 'hybrid' around, people get confused. Stick to half-cylon.
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I've watched that scene 15 times today. The look on Tigh's face (It's gotta be hard to act with one eye). he looked more surprised than when he found out he was a Cylon!The little look Slick gives Kara just before diving into the meat of the song, that little "you ready for this?" look. Perfect.
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Cymen? Hulons?
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this was pure maudlin overwrought 'hamburger helper'
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No matter what, olmos has already said its going to be a very dark outcome regarding starbuck, at least thats the rumor i read somewhere. the cast did say the ending makes them cry which could mean a sappy ending, but at this point, why? why not keep the dark tone of the show going all the way to the end and really have starbuck bring them all to their end. death.
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Tai_Pan writes, "WHY? Why is it logical to assume they didn't age. You have no basis for that statement."
Yes, I do. The conversation Cavil has with Helen after she resurrects proves it. Helen modeled Cavil after her father, and he complains to her about being saddled with an aged body with bad blood pressure. The Resurrection Ships were full of multiple copies of the various models, to be used when one Cylon "downloaded" into a new body--Boomer was met on the Cylon Basestar by multiple copies of the same model, same age. If Cylons could age, why not show them all at different ages? Furthermore, since Helen Tighe is the Final Cylon, and since she resurrected into a new body the same age as when she died, both on New Caprica and on Earth 2,000 years ago, we can only assume, given no other explanation, that the Final Five do not age, either.
"there was never any basis to consider whether they aged... UNTIL WE LEARNED TIGH WAS A CYLON. That's what established CYlon aging; not what contradicted it. Up until that point, there was no way of knowing if the Cylons did or did not age."
You're making my point for me, Tai Pan. Whether Cylons could age or not was largely irrelevant until the show runners decided to inexplicably make a character that already had an established long running history with another Human character a Cylon. They could have gotten away with Tyrol, Anders, and Tori, because they didn't have any significant back history to worry about. But the show runners established the history of Adama and Tighe, going back 30+ years--Adama even tells Tighe he "Knew him when he had hair". So the aging controversy was created: How can Tighe have a human history with Bill Adama, and still be a Cylon? With magical TV hand-waving, Moore pronounces that the Final Five are "fundamentally different", and you tell me that Cylons CAN age, but must conveniently choose not to, since we've never seen it. That explains it all, then.
"My guess is that you're just angry about Tigh being a Cylon and desperately clinging to this aging business as some sort of validation for your frustration over the Final Five."
You mean my frustration of having my chain yanked for 3 seasons about how important the Final Five were going to be, with the visions, and the glowing, and all the metaphysical mumbo jumbo, only to have the lame reveal as them being 2,000 year old scientists from Earth? You're damn right I'm pissed off. It's just one more story arc that was all build up, and no payoff. Same with finding Kobol. Same with finding Earth. Blue Balled again. -
The cylons on Earth evolved and developed the ability to procreate. What's the point in procreation if your offspring cannot age? That just doesn't make sense. Therefore we know the final five can age.
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Are you slow or something? It has been explained to you several times now. The Colonial Cylons made by the Final Five "Cannot Age" and the Final Five who were born Cylons and have the ability to reproduce amongst themselves, "Can Age". queerfilmjunkie explained what was already obvious in an earlier post.
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I thought this talkback was dying... i put on valkyrie and come back and there's been like 35 posts. Anyways, Tal_Pan, you owned Mach6 (i don't know if geeks are still using pwned) You laid it out logically but Mach6 is not using logic--he's made his decision that the show has a plothole most likely because he wants to be the person who exposed the plothole. Give up arguing with him... the people who love the show, and appreciate its intelligence, will at the very least acknowledge that what Mach6 hasn't proved anything, and as far as the topic at hand, the show hasn't proved anything. You gotta play all nine innings--if you're down 3 runs going into the ninth, you can't say you've lost until the game is over. Will you have to work for those 3 runs? definately... the show has alot of work to do in the answers department, but you can't say they've written themselves into a corner if they haven't finished writing.
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If Starbuck was resurrected Cylon style, she would not still have the same tattoos she had before she "died" would she?
So is this a mistake? Or is this a clue? -
On the one hand, when Tyrol and Boomer were talking in the brig, there were many instances of obvious reflections on a transparent surface between them. Plus, they had to use a phone to talk. Thus, there was plexiglas or something similar in between them, in addition to the wire.
On the other hand, as shot, it certainly looked like they were touching hands through the wire. I don't think we actually saw flesh touch flesh, and I'm almost certain we didn't see "fingers curled around each other" in the "real world", but we just kind of assume that Boomer needed to touch Tyrol to include him in her projection.
So, either actual touching *isn't* required for mutual projection, or somebody messed up and the action called for in the scene wasn't consistent with the set dressing used. -
"The original Caprica miniseries takes place before the first Cylon War. Even if the person that the 7th model is based upon is in Caprica, #7 won't be there."--- It's not a contradiction IF RDM sees no difference between Daniel Graystone and his Cylon recreation. It's a legitimate viewpoint. I don't think of Athena as two separate people even though she has been resurrected and had 2 different bodies.
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Daniel's amniotic fluid was corrupted by Cavil.Daniel "died" but because of his "beautiful soul," he was elevated to an active place among the Lords of Kobol giving him In-Head abilities (likely the Leoben In-Head) and Shelly Godfrey manifestation skill - which means he could be Starbuck's father and would explain why he left never to be heard from again.Which brings us to Hera. Her blood reversed Roslin's cancer and the make up of her blood can be used correct the corrupted elements in Daniel.Cavil wants to bring Daniel back, open up his brain (what he threatened to do to Ellen) and learn how to become the perfect machine he yearns to be - an In-Head.
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"I'm almost certain we didn't see 'fingers curled around each other' in the 'real world'" -- No, their fingers definitely go through the mesh and touch each other.
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Starbuck's tattoos could be duplicated.
... but the ship is another matter. I've watched "Sometimes a Great Notion" a couple times, but I still can't tell if Starbuck has TWO sets of dog tags and a wedding ring, or if she only has the one she found on her dead body. In any event, the ship is CLEARLY supernatural in nature. It was perfectly new when it should have had battle damage. The Five honed in on it. It mysteriously acquired directions to Earth. Since it arrived with Starbuck, I am inclined to believe that Starbuck WAS NOT resurrected in some kind of Cylon body, but rather was supernaturally revived by the Lords of Kobol, or the Angelic in-head beings, or the One True God. -
Okay, in that case, I'll go with Theory C: Physical touch is not required and did not occur, but we were *shown* physical touch as a visual metaphor for the mental contact that was starting up(and/or we were seeing it from Tyrol/Boomer's point of view, and their perceptions were distorted/enhanced by the onset of projection).
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That's certainly possible. I'll watch that scene more closely when it comes online next week.
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I'm not going to bother going once again into the logic behind why Cylons age. That apparently is lost on you. Instead, I'm going to show where you're making assumptions:
"Yes, I do. The conversation Cavil has with Helen after she resurrects proves it. Helen modeled Cavil after her father, and he complains to her about being saddled with an aged body with bad blood pressure."-- No it didn't. Go back again. The quote is as follows "YOU MADE ME IN HIS IMAGE, THANKS A MILLION FOR THAT."
There's NO WAY to tell if he is angry about his age or if he's angry about his ugly *face/looks/fact that he wasn't more machine-like* Even if that weren't the case, you'd still have no basis for saying that the Final Five don't resurrect (even Tigh himself points this out in "Revelations" when Adama says "when I met you, you had hair. I've never heard of a Cylon aging" Tigh replies "GUESS THERE WAS ANOTHER KIND WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT").
"Furthermore, since Helen Tighe is the Final Cylon, and since she resurrected into a new body the same age as when she died, both on New Caprica and on Earth 2,000 years ago, we can only assume, given no other explanation, that the Final Five do not age, either. "--- Well it's definitely AN ASSUMPTION, that much we can agree upon. Thing is, I can just as easily assume that there are various ages for her to resurrect in, and she simply wound up in that particular aged body. Or I can assume that Cavil is an asshole who takes pleasure in resurrecting a promiscuous at an age past her prime. Or I can assume that normally, Cylons resurrect in a particular age, and Cavil had to create younger versions of the Final Five under special circumstances in order to achieve his objective. When neither your assumption nor mine has been confirmed, YOU CANNOT CLAIM A CONTINUITY ERROR.
"With magical TV hand-waving, Moore pronounces that the Final Five are "fundamentally different", and you tell me that Cylons CAN age, but must conveniently choose not to, since we've never seen it. That explains it all, then. " ----You may not like it, and it may be retconning (maybe not) but that DOESN'T MAKE IT A CONTINUITY ERROR.
"You mean my frustration of having my chain yanked for 3 seasons"--- You exaggerate. The concept didn't even come up until midway into the third season.
"It's just one more story arc that was all build up, and no payoff." --- Sorry you feel that way. I'm pleased with it, myself.
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Mar 01, 2009 12:07:05 AM CST
Supernatural: Pythia clearly is not supernatural in nature
by mattinthehat
therefore references to dmeons, angels, gods, God are also not, in the context of this show. Why? Because the #8 that shows them the way to the tomb of Athena is described as a lower demon in Pythia, and clearly is not. And scince Pythis was written when the Sacred Scrolls were written I'd expect all references to supernatural entities to be references to demons=bad people, angels=good people, gods=very powerful people. where "people"=any sentient entity becuase there's now so many cyloncs, humans, half breeds and whatnot its hard to keep up.
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They were not touching, and I am surprised there is even any debate. There was glass between them and a cage/fence on the Chief's side. In fact, Boomer clearly puts her entire hand, palm facing out, on the glass, and the Chief just reaches a finger or two through the mesh fence and places them against the glass. I was watching it in HD, so maybe that made it more clear. Still, it should have been obvious due to the fact that they had to use the phones.
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So far Lost has been anything but sloppy with time travel, they have some "rules" and it's been a great way to show the history of the island.
Heroes on the other hand had become a convoluted mess thanks to time travel. -
Hands not clearly touching the FIRST time, yes. But look the second time when Galen comes back.
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...are, no doubt, the same retards who think the Lost smoke monster is a nanite cloud. Shouldn't you be serving me breadsticks at Fazoli's?
Most of the rest of you are off the charts bipolar. This episode was on par with last weeks. It wasn't best, nor was last week's the worst. At least this ep has proven, once again, that the Cylons can never be trusted. Gaeta and Zarak were right. There is no fundamental difference between the 8s except a very small number of memories.
As for the phone thing, I didn't get it either. You could see a glare, but I'm pretty sure that was when the camera was behind, and off to the side of the cell. Even if it wasn't, it was quite clear there was enough of an opening to curl their fingers together. It was just an odd directorial choice.
The only way they can tie up the show, at this point, is to make them all Cylons or Cylon children. It'll be lame, but it's the only way they can explain everyone's visions. Any other ended would be even lamer. BSG has had a number of high points, but has wandered more aimlessly than any other show I can recall. People love it because of the twists, but there's no plan to any of it, as RDM has made clear on several occasions. Those twists are nothing more than the result of a madlibs scripting process. Lost is far superior in this regard (the craptastic third season aside). In fact, you use to be able to compare and contrast the shows, but now that Lost is an order of magnitude better, there's now point in it anymore. You might as well be comparing The Wire to Cleopatra 2525. -
that's my favorite theory so far, because then it means that starbuck was originally a man, and that man is... dirk benedict.
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How do you see BSG ending ?
Will it be with the humans leaving a dying Galctica to go on the Base Star, to continue their combined search for a home?
Will there be a huge battle with the small group of survivors includin Hera and Starbuck setting foot on their new home ? -
Dun dun duuunnnn!
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The Kobol humans stole it (as was explained), but never got it totally right.Starbuck's return is a demonstration of what it can really do.
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There is wire mesh. There is plexiglas. Boomer puts her hand against the plexiglas. Tyrol reaches out and when his hand touches the other side of the glass from Boomer's hand, he goes to the happyplace.
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LOST has suckedd since the middle of season 4. This lastest season is drivel. They really fucked up when they ditched the flashbacks. This week's episode had flashbacks and (surprise!) the show was much better. Nonetheless, this show has gone off the deep end.
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All the focus on resurrection technology is for a reason.Everyone who died in this cycle gets reborn.
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Resurrection technology? Maybe with the capability to also resurrect machinery like a Viper, though that sounds a bit fooey.
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Again, good ep, NOT great. Not sure why, but starting with last episode, this season has really slipped big time. Worrying considering we are down to the final few episodes OF THE WHOLE SERIES. Seriously, with some of the brilliant writing we've seen in the past, it's odd that we get one subpar (last week) and another ep that's slightly above average at best (this week). I expected at this point we'd be getting 5/5 every week (like on "Lost").
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As per my post about "supernatural" elements not actually being supernatural, I'd take "Gods Fire" to mean an advanced race (Cylons? Hybrids? just as the reference to a "lesser Demon" meant a #8 model Cylon) with advanced technology, simiar to many mythologies of a human having to get the gift of fire from the gods. and you are right about the driving advanced technology in the show being resurrection technology. Even the current Skinjobs can't recreate it. Maybe the "something" that is driving them all is what took the resurrection technology ("Fire") from the "gods" and thus has been resurrecting in the background for 2000 years, but maybe has both resurrection, FTL and procreation technology thus making them almost godlike to normal filthy hu-maans and skinjobs. This is the only show on TV I'd ever bother to speculate! Even though the last 3 episodes haven't been specactular they have now moved us into position to have a spectacular ending! I have faith it will get sown up well, but like all TV shows there might be a few loose strands. We might have to use imagination to fill in those.
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but think Lost is hitting a lot of home runs this season.
It's definetely not a show you can just pick up and watch , which can't be good for ratings but it's clearly the best thing network tv has offered in a long time.
I hope we get some great new shows soon, a lot of great ones have recently finished or soon will and the new product i.e. Dollhouse and Fringe aren't living up to expectations. -
1st time or 2nd time?
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Both times. Boomer's hand is flat, as if against glass, although you can't tell for sure that it is. But there is NOT a scene where you can see flesh to flesh contact between Tyrol and Boomer. And there is glass reflections every time you see the scene from Tyro's side.
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You've hit upon something with your "resurrecting a viper" comment. If the technology that is called "the gods' fire" can resurrect (i.e. recreate) Kara's viper to be brand new, why not other Colonial vipers and battlestars? It could be that what happened at the maeltrsom was just one manifestation of that technology.Somebody resurrecting in the background is a really cool theory. All I was suggesting is that the "gods fire" resurrection ability on Kobol was never fully mastered. Based on your theory, these background resurrecting individuals have the full software package whereas the Earth Cylons and Cavil Cylons never fully understood it and don't have all the wonderful upgrades/updates.BTW this is the only show I speculate about too.
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Did I miss something?
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"5/5 every week like on Lost"?! Oh my frakking gods, you people have no idea. This episode was brilliant, 6 out of frakking 5, and if some of you can't see that, well, it's your loss. The rest of us will continue enjoying this brilliant scifi-drama while it lasts.
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Galactica is going out on a whimper, not a bang.
How I miss the days when Galactica was about one fleet escaping another. -
...recognized Kara as being part Cylon and downloaded her and copied her. It also copied the ship because it mistook it for the Earth ship that the FF originally took to cross the stars to the 12 colonies. But unlike the original Earth ship, the sattelite recreated the Viper with its FTL drive so once Kara and Viper were rebuilt, and Kara saw Earth, the sattelite sent the Viper on its way to the fleet via the FTL (with extra parts that would turn the Viper into a compass, pointing the direction to Earth) since the Fleet was on the general path to Earth anyway and so close to Earth. OK NOW I'M SICK OF EVEN MY OWN THEORIES!!! BLECH!!!
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Although it's a little like Frankenstein, where creator finally confronts creature out in the wastelands of the cold seas.
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I could live with that theory of yours, sounds good even. Its just the HOW she got to earth we need to work on now.Was it some wormhole transport thingy perhaps?
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"Kindly explain to me how a ship AN INANIMATE OBJECT could have the dying leader's visions of snakes?"
Hello, um, colonial "vipers," on radar?? I'm just sayin' . . . . -
awesome call on the vipers on dradis
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Whats this about Vipers and Dradis?
What I miss? -
So Boomer is irrideemable now. Sneaky Cavill
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Maybe it's aother Pythism: The 12 snakes are the 12 remaining Cylon models - literally. The "visions" being the manifestations of each that have walked Galacticas hallowed halls. OK, it's a farfetched thoery, I still think it's queen bitch of the universe.
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Speaking of queen bitch of the universe, dismissing the Chief like that in "Dirty Hands" might have been crappy, but doing it now it's just downright rude. The Chief is now one of the final five and "more important than" and has more power than her, if I were him I'd have had her deposed and airlocked and there's nothing Adama could have done as the Cylons now own Galactica.
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Mar 01, 2009 6:22:45 AM CST
NoHubris: OK if you count Cylons, Half-Breeds and Vipers as mach
by mattinthehat
So "real" (i.e. original, Gods Fire) resurrection technology may be able to recreate ANY machine in its original form, meaning a Cylon (Starbuck: half-Cylon) or a Viper. The diluted version the F5 rediscovered (or were given) could only recreate pre-determined forms of machines (the F5) and then they passed this on (8 skinjobs, Raiders, Bulletheads?). ???
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Technically Galactica isn't an inanimate object any more, as they just spent two episodes covering it in living goo.
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The use of the Dylan song is the single most inspired aspect of BSG. Whenever it kicks into the score now i feel like something great is happening and i get goose-bumps. Thank Gods Starbuck's back in the plot- she's after all the best character. So was her pappa a cylon. I'm guessing the stuff about Boomer sending Tyrell her vision is suggesting that you have to be a cylon to share them. So far we've seen Baltar, Roslin and Apollo (flowting in the lake) have these visions/dreams. So are they all cylon's?
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Any money he turns out to be Daniels son too, and that Starbucj is his half sister.Didn't they bump uglies? Ewwww
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This isn't about the latest episode. I'm just wondering something.
I've only been watching for a few weeks & I've watched almost every episode,(with the odd episode missing here & there),trying to catch up. Maybe this isn't the best show for cramming.
Ok, if I'm right (& I may not be), the humans were expelled from Kobol around 2,000 years ago..right? But the 13th tribe (who I think were cylons?) left 4,000 years ago. Like I said, I might be wrong.
Now, I've been reading up as well as watching & I'm sure I read somewhere that the humans were kicked out for creating cylons. If this is just fan speculation that I read here or somewhere else, then this post is pointless. But if that's a part of the show, why would they be kicked out 2,000 years AFTER the cylons had left?
LIke I said, if what I read was just fan speculation, just ignore this. My head hurts. -
everyone on the show is a cylon. The Lords of Kobol built resurrection satellites all around the real Earth, and everyone who dies on this show ressurects there. In the last episode, everyone in this show (Galactica and the Cavill Base Ships) will reach Earth, and the leader of Earth (played by Dirk Benedict) will emerge and explain that this whole ordeal has been to teach them the value of living together and accepting each other. And then an endless supply of 8's will emerge naked and give everyone handjobs. The end.
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That's a good start.
I especially like the "And then an endless supply of 8's will emerge naked and give everyone handjobs" part.
My wife looks like Boomer by the way. True! I'm a lucky bastard.
Assuming I'm not shagging a cylon, that is. -
I believe that Kara was resurrected in a fundamentally different way from how the Cylons resurrect. I think she was resurrected by "God".
"God" in the BSG universe is probably an entity that is much more evolved or high tech than either the humans,Cylons or Final Five Cylons.
You could call "God's" abilities magic or technology so advanced that it would appear to be magic per Clark's Third Law:"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
http://tinyurl.com/zhcs6
Imagine a technology that allowed the user to rearrange matter into any pattern down to the subatomic level. This technology would allow the user to convert matter to energy and back again at will in any patten desired. This type of technology would allow the user to recreate a person exactly down to every subatomic particle and electrical impulse. We have seen and accepted this idea in science fiction for over forty-five years without question. It's the TRANSPORTER on Star Trek.
Now for a little digression. I always felt the biggest plot hole on Star Trek was the transporter. The transporter could really have been used as an immortality device. Keep your pattern stored in a transporter buffer. If you get killed your pattern can be recreated and you live forever.
There are physicists that currently theorize that there may be many duplicate "Earths" that are absolutely identical in every way to our own on the far side of the universe. This theory is based upon a couple of assumptions:
1.) The Universe is incredible large, beyond our ability to comprehend.
2.)There is an unlimited amount of matter in the universe.
3.)There is a finite number of patterns into which matter can be arranged. The number of patters is very large but, it is limited.
If you are interested in this topic there is a very good podcast at the RadioLab website hosted by Robert Krulwich with physicist Brian Greene at:
http://tinyurl.com/2x4zp5
Scroll down to the story called "The (Multi) Universe(s)"
End of digression.
If "God" extracted Kara and her Viper just before the explosion in "Maelstrom" with his "Transporter" he could have made an exact copy of Kara and tweaked the Viper so it was like brand new.
I know a lot of people have dismissed this but, I really hope that "God" is Cottle. I would love for the last scene of the series to be Cottle and Starbuck riding off in a Raptor with Cottle saying to Starbuck "Come on Kara we have work to do elsewhere."
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I can't watch on friday nights, so I watch on-lineevery Saturday morning.
But scifi hasn't posted "someone to watch over me yet," so neither has hulu, etc.
Can someone post a link to watch so I can join in? -
If Daniel is Kara's Father wouldn't that make Tigh, Ellen, Tory,Tyrol and Anders her grandparents.
So Kara banged her grandfather Anders.
Tyrol banged his child Boomer
Ellen banged her son Cavil
Tigh banged his daughter Caprica 6
Ron Moore is a sick fuck. -
Ok... This ep was pretty fucked up. And chief got exactly what was coming to him. He needs to be shot out an airlock for this one.
The whole time I was watching I kept thinking blah, blah blah filler ep. Then the last ten minutes kicked in.
Holy Fuck. Airlock the chief. Guys are so easily bought with pussy. -
Go to Amazon video on demand.Type in Battlestar Galatica Season 4.5.Click on Battlestar Galactica (04). You will see a list of all Season 4 and 4.5 episodes.Scroll down and click Someone to Watch Over Me. The fee is $1.99 per episode.
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How can you possibly ruin BSG? I'm continually amazed whenever I try to watch this miserablist, thinly veiled political allegory masquerading as "entertainment". One of the worst shows on television.
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RDM said it's Roslin. Case closed.
""Kindly explain to me how a ship AN INANIMATE OBJECT could have the dying leader's visions of snakes?" --Hello, um, colonial "vipers," on radar?? I'm just sayin' . "--- Since when is a radar the same as having a vision. Nevermind the fact that LAURA ACTUALLY HAD A VISION OF SNAKES, NOT COLONIAL VIPERS.
The Prophecy of the Dying Leader says:
1. "And the Lords anointed a leader to guide the caravan of the heavens to their new homeland. And unto the leader, they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come."--- Note that the prophecy said the leader received the vision BEFORE THE ATTACK from "Hand of God." Meaning that Glactica never received any predictive vision (and not just 'cuz it's a big piece of metal), as dradis would pick up the Vipers at the same time the prophecy was fulfilled.
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Correction - When you get to Battlestar Galactica (04), click on "Watch it now."
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Mar 01, 2009 11:02:07 AM CST
Could they make Madam President any more despicable at this poin
by removed_user
I'm thinking no, but there are two episodes left.
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Interesting theory.I agree that there is more to the resurrection technology than the humans or Cylons realize.
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Obviously. WTF?
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Your theory would explain the last episode title which is DAYBREAK.
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Fantastic post. Thanks for the links.
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Battleless-star Crymoar.Fire some fucking bullets, already.
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Thanks -- OK, my memory is screwy then.Or maybe Cavil has interfered with my memory program! :-o
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"How I miss the days when Galactica was about one fleet escaping another" -- Well, you had 2 years of that. You wanted another two years of it? Just the same thing over and over for four years? Why?
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"If you get killed your pattern can be recreated and you live forever" -- More like a duplicate of you takes over your life after you're dead. Somewhat less comforting.
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I've hit a point where I don't even care what happens. The first two seasons were great and now the show is a boring mess. Haven't watched last fridays episdoe and don't think I want too. I think it's good that this is ending.
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Then why fucking POST if you hate the show so much???
Enjoy your CSI reruns and go away. -
I like your idea and I think this would be a great way to end the show in true Science Fiction fashion! I've wondered as well about another party and the fact that this show tends to loosely follow the major plot lines of the old BSG. The ship of lights and the advanced creatures is something they haven't done and your theory would fit right in as their version of that. I hope it's something like that.
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I really don't understand people like you and that other troll dickhead Dioxholster, who literally comes here every week to tell everyone how shit BSG is. Fuck you must have a boring as shit life
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Is that I'm hearing?
I certainly hope this show has more explosions and bullets and "Bang!" "Pew pew!" in store, because I'd hate for the people on this board bitching about the lack of bullets never to have an erection again. My suggestion is to pop a Michael Bay movie into your VCR, drop some Viagra, and renew your local gun range membership card. -
It's more than just how did Kara come back. HOW did the Viper end up on Earth? It blew up on a planet far from Earth, did it not? How did the wreckage end up on Earth...... even more interesting is WHY DOES KARA REMEMBER SEEING EARTH BEFORE IT WAS DESTROYED. Kara said she went to Earth, yet she describes a different place from what was found in "Revelations."
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Mar 01, 2009 1:09:01 PM CST
re:Could they make Madam President any more despicable at this p
by melvin_pelvis
She's pretty repulsive now
I haven't cared much for Roslin since the ep where the ore refinery ship went on strike.
Kinda hoping she dies before the end and her death is rough.
Doc Cottle says, sorry, we're out of pain killers -
While I don't usually post in this talkback, just wanted to give a little praise before it ends. I think there has been more good than bad during its run, and I'm glad I stuck with the show.
Just wanted to comment on the possible BSG movie. I think Universal went with Glen Larson because the re-imagined tv show was never a ratings hit. It explores some pretty dark themes, and they are probably looking for something EVERY family member can go see, not an R-rated story with rape and incest and just flat-out misery. they are probably looking for a spot somewhere in the middle, between the original show and it's Star Wars like take with better writing, closer to the new show. As much as I like the show NOW, even I would have second thoughts on whether it could make money on the big screen. And if they (Universal) have to make nice with Mr. Larson to set the stage for a potential mega franchise (if done right) no one is gonna stand in the way of them making money. And Ron Moore's version appeals to a loyal group, but that group ain't that large, folks. And if Glen Larson does indeed hold the film rights, he holds a lot of the cards for which way the franchise is heading.
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Well we do not "God's" purpose yet. I am sure of one thing. The Kara that is on the show now is a copy of the Kara that died in "Maelstrom" but, an absolutely perfect copy. Just like a digital copy of a song. It is absolutely identical in every way indistinguishable for the original. The new Kara is the old Kara for all intents and purposes but, she is a copy.
We will have to see if TPTB explain all of "God's" plan before the end of the series.
All of you that hate Ron Moore's BSG should really go looking for Richad Hatch's BSG trailer on You Tube. I think that would be right up your alley. -
RDM also told us that Starbuck was dead and actively led everyone to believe that she was killed off the show. We all know how that turned out.
Now I'm not saying that the Galactica is the dying leader, that seems a little far fetched to me, though I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong. What I am saying is that history has shown us that we can't trust everything RDM tells us. -
Wow Melvin_Pelvis, with all that hatred and anger I am betting you're a Democrat, the party of tolerance.
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they'll cure cancer and then they'll all turn into zombies. Then they'll do the prequel that no one truly cares about. On a serious note, this briefly mentioned 'other colony' could be the real earth... i hope it is, because i want a happy ending... the show has done misery so well, but if the whole story they create goes from misery to complete misery, i'm going to wonder why i invested so much time into a show that does nothing but torture every character... the characters keep overcoming things, only to quickly be given something else to get miserable about... it needs a happy ending... if not they're going to push it as a show 'about the end of all intelligent life in the universe.' a bold endeavor for a tv show, but not the payoff the viewers deserve. I also hope they meet god... THAT would be a bold move for a tv show... it seems the only characters we ever see who are god, are all in comedies. I can't think of a drama in which god is a character.
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AICN is fueled by hate. If we could harness all the hate here and turn it into electricity we could solve the energy crisis.
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there is no doubt in my mind that alot of the haters are compensating for sad lives. There's never any question about who is a geek, who is a fanboy, who is a troll and who is delusional (cough cough Media Messiah cough cough). There are those who go to blogs only to hate, and then there are those who feel that filmmakers 'owe' them something... it all comes down to the fact that they are compensating for something... they don't get to talk shit about people or their ideas in the real world, so they develop their own opinions and convince themselves that they have a perfect grasp on what is good/bad and never stop to think that they could be wrong. They always deny it, but bottom line is alot of losers with pathetic lives flock to this site.
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she is a repulsive character
While the rest of humanity is living in cramped squalor.
She's been living in well fed luxury.
Plenty of water, clean clothes, suite sized living quarters.
The people who oppose her get briged and is they don't capitulate, airlocked..
Only Baltar got the benifit of a trial.
The others by a royal like edict. -
there are always those living in bad condition and there are always those who live livevs of luxury when people are losing their money, jobs, and housing. If the economy plummets and plummets, the president will always be living in luxury. And bsg explores the idea of what the role of a president would be if the fate of the entire human race depended on the president's actions. what shows do your like, melvin??
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.. .is the idea that Boomer could so easily get off the ship. I mean, it was patently ridiculous Chief clocked the other 8, knocked her out and somehow spirited her into the cell, and Boomer out. What? Cause the fucking LIGHTS went out? Just stupid. That being said, the episode was far better than the last couple. At this point I've lost faith in the show to the extent that I don't know if I'm questioning things too much because of past performance, or I'm letting things slide because of past performance. Either way, it's not the state you wanna be in - but as I say, with that as context, this episode at least didn't throw any major disruptions out there. It's good to see Starbuck acting Starbuck-y every once in a while. Along with Lee Adama, Tigh and Baltar, I've never seen a show castrate its most intriguing characters like this. There's character development, then there's character manipulation, and unfortunately a lot of BSG's error of the last two seasons was the latter ...
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baltar was not the only one who got the benefit of a trial--he was the only one who had the CONSEQUENCE of a trial. Pretty much everyone else has been given amnesty or a short time in the brig. Even some cylons have been forgiven... who deserved a trial that was ordered to be killed instead??? don't say gaeta and zarek because not only did they jeapordize the lives of the entire human race, but zarek killed the whole cabinet in cold blood. Do you even watch the show, Melvin???
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"RDM also told us that Starbuck was dead "----Yeah, and we all know how that ended... oh wait, no we don't. Last time I checked, there was a charred body in Kara's Viper.
"What I am saying is that history has shown us that we can't trust everything RDM tells us."--- You haven't established that RDM has lied to his audience. I trust what he says, if you don't, that's your own affair.
In any event, NO OTHER CHARACTER has filled the prophecy of the dying leader... EXCEPT Roslyn. Galactica didn't have a vision of snakes. It's a ship. It doesn't have visions. My point is that people who are looking to someone other than Roslyn as the dying leader are grasping at straws and seeing the future in chicken guts. -
lee has always been a well read political idealist, to put him in a political role made sense. Tigh turned out to be a cylon--so, according to you, whoever they would have picked to be a cylon would make you say the same thing--that character would have b een manipulated. Baltar has been fed religious ideas and perspectives by the cylon in his head--to turn him into a relgious leader made sense because he's the only non cylon who has believed in a one true god since season one. These characters did not just turn into who they are now for no reason--they have followed a steady progression to become who they are now.
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"I think Universal went with Glen Larson because the re-imagined tv show was never a ratings hit."--- Not true. Glen Larson has the sole rights to a theatrical version. Larson wouldn't produce the RDM series, because.... well, he's a shithead. ANd yes, the show has been a ratings hit at times.
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How does she not recognize her own mother? Sheee-it
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2/22/09: "[On February 19th], we completed the last of three orchestral scoring sessions for the BG finale, the final orchestral recordings of the series. It was a very emotional experience, but the music has exceeded my expectations. It will, fittingly, be the most epic, lush, intense and beautiful BG score I’ve ever composed." From Bear's Battlestar Blog
2/17/09: According to Kate Vernon, Ellen arc ends with "a peaceful resonance, a mythical resonance at the end." From Zap2It
2/4/09: Both Athena and Boomer appear. From Galactica.tv
1/22/09: More from the poster who indicated that Ellen was the Fifth: Galactica "goes down in flame." From SciFi Channel Forums
1/21/09: Jamie Bamber described, "Every scene that we shot was sort of a farewell to a certain event or character or location or set." From Star-Telegram
1/19/09: Describing Lee's story arc, Ron Moore said, "His role as leader of the civilian government will become even more important in the second half of the season and Lee will provide a key idea in the final episode that brings the show to its conclusion." From MediaBlvd
1/17/09: Even though Katee Sackhoff wanted Kara to be alone, she says "at the end of [the series]... I'm trying to figure out what I can say. She's not alone." That said, Katee said she "wasn't disappointed. It was a fantastic end for [Starbuck], and the only way I think it could have happened." From IGN
1/16/09: According to Jamie Bamber, Lee's climax is "about Adama and Kara." From TV Guide
1/15/09: Jamie Bamber says, "Who's to say the cinder planet the audience saw was a look into Earth's future? Maybe it's the far, far past. It could be prehuman. That question will stand until the climax of the show." From TV Guide
1/10/09: The final scene of the series is supposedly Inner Six, wearing that little red dress, walking through Times Square, in modern day New York City. From SciFi Channel Forums & SyFy Portal
1/4/09: According to Tahmoh Penikett, Helo's ending was "obvious" and he "fought against it." Apparently, the ending was changed and he "had a little bit of influence on that. I’m happy with the end of my storyline and it will surprise people.” From Newsarama
1/2/09: Romo Lampkin will be "back for the end." Sheppard also says that even if the audience read the script and "knew what was going to happen, it still wouldn’t come close to how good the actual realization is." From IF Magazine
11/8/08: Captain Sarah Alchemer as well as a character simply called 'Police Officer' are listed as appearing. From IMDB
9/16/08: According to Helo: "Everybody dies. We have a dark ending...Obviously you know, those last couple of episodes, they're going to blow your mind. They are going to go down in history as the best television ever done." Now, before you freak out, remember the Six Feet Under finale? Everybody dies eventually. From EOnline
9/6/08: Jamie Bamber had this to say about how the show ends: "Ron really made the ending about character because I think there's a lot of pressure with a muscular show like ours to end with story...Well, there's definitely allusions to a future and there's definitely questions asked at the end, but I think that's what good endings are all about. It does pretty even-handedly deal with everyone you love in the show. Everyone gets a really good signing-off note." From ComicMix Interview
8/30/08: James Callis said the ending reminded him of Apocolypse Now. From Cinema Blend
8/11/08: Xeno Fenner (David Patrick Green), Captain Doyle Franks (Susan Hogan) and Judge #2 (William Samples) are listed as appearing. From IMDB
8/7/08: Zak Adama (Tobias Mehler) is listed as appearing the final three episodes of the series. From IMDB
8/4/08: There are some apparently spoiler-y bits from an end-of-shooting montage: a longer-haired Lee, wearing a flak jacket;
setup for shooting a scene at Baltar's house back on Caprica;
a strip club with both Six and Ellen seen on stage while Tigh sits watching;
Adama in a civilian business suit and possibly sitting up at the same stage;
Baltar and Six wearing a short black dress on a location shoot in downtown Vancouver;
Six in a flak jacket and holding a weapon;
A bloodied Doral (Four) pointing a gun in what looks like a Galactica corridor;
Six in the little red dress on location in downtown Vancouver;
Roslin standing waist deep in a pool with wet hair;
Ron Moore in a flight suit;
Lee, Athena, Kara and Helo in flak jackets in a corridor or inside a building;
Baltar wearing the same suit that Inner Baltar wore at the city location shoot with red-dress wearing Six
7/27/08: Baltar and a Six fire weapons as they are involved in a firefight. From Entertainment Weekly
7/25/08: On the very last day of shooting, someone saw James Callis (Baltar) and Tricia Helfer on a location shoot in Vancouver. The description lends itself to it apparently being one of Baltar's head conversations since Six was described as wearing that red dress. From Television Without Pity Forum
7/22/08: Jamie Bamber's final scene had him filming alone with the second unit until 4:45AM. The scene involved him running around "shooting at stuff" with extras. The first unit was somewhere nearby because he heard their cheers when they wrapped. As with a previous interview, he went with a "no comment" over whether Lee lives or not. From Kristin
7/4/08: Rekha Sharma's reaction to the finale: "I just read the ending, and it's so ----ing beautiful ... at one point my heart was racing for about 10 pages, then for 10 pages I was crying. I was on the plane, and the person next to me probably thought I was insane. It's intense. It's a kind of resolution to all the storylines, but at the same time it's like life, life does go on." From The National Ledger
7/4/08: More location shoot photos show Roslin actually walking into the pond and under a water fountain. The poster described her acting as "despondent/desparate." From paulman
7/3/08: The 13th Colony has photos of a location shoot for the finale. Roslin in what looks to be casual summer attire. The scene looks to be back on Caprica in the same location that was first seen as the marketplace in the miniseries where Six killed the baby and then again in Roslin's flashbacks to her negotiations with the teachers' union where she remembered seeing Baltar with Six. From The 13th Colony
6/20/08: The casting of the extras for the finale's location shoot has been completed and included a questionnaire that asked among other things, "Are you comfortable being filmed in a bathing suit?" From BClocalnews.com
6/17/08: Mary McDonnell mentioned wandering over to the Caprica set in a hospital gown with IV in tow and looking bald. The timing would seem to place this during filming of either episode 419 or 420. From EW.com article
6/15/08: The episode will include location shooting with the need for both male and female extras of "all ages and ethnicities" described as having "athletic build and a clean cut look or be slim with long hair or dreadlocks." From BClocalnews.com
11/3/07: VFX supervisor Gary Hutzel has been told by Ron Moore to watch the FX budget because "there will be a full-on conflict at the end of the season. Develop the last two episodes, which are supposed to be gigantic, never before seen effects and also deliver fast, fast, fast, that's extremely hard." From VFX World
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2/22/09: "[On February 19th], we completed the last of three orchestral scoring sessions for the BG finale, the final orchestral recordings of the series. It was a very emotional experience, but the music has exceeded my expectations. It will, fittingly, be the most epic, lush, intense and beautiful BG score I’ve ever composed." From Bear's Battlestar Blog
2/17/09: According to Kate Vernon, Ellen arc ends with "a peaceful resonance, a mythical resonance at the end." From Zap2It
2/4/09: Both Athena and Boomer appear. From Galactica.tv
1/22/09: More from the poster who indicated that Ellen was the Fifth: Galactica "goes down in flame." From SciFi Channel Forums
1/21/09: Jamie Bamber described, "Every scene that we shot was sort of a farewell to a certain event or character or location or set." From Star-Telegram
1/19/09: Describing Lee's story arc, Ron Moore said, "His role as leader of the civilian government will become even more important in the second half of the season and Lee will provide a key idea in the final episode that brings the show to its conclusion." From MediaBlvd
1/17/09: Even though Katee Sackhoff wanted Kara to be alone, she says "at the end of [the series]... I'm trying to figure out what I can say. She's not alone." That said, Katee said she "wasn't disappointed. It was a fantastic end for [Starbuck], and the only way I think it could have happened." From IGN
1/16/09: According to Jamie Bamber, Lee's climax is "about Adama and Kara." From TV Guide
1/15/09: Jamie Bamber says, "Who's to say the cinder planet the audience saw was a look into Earth's future? Maybe it's the far, far past. It could be prehuman. That question will stand until the climax of the show." From TV Guide
1/10/09: The final scene of the series is supposedly Inner Six, wearing that little red dress, walking through Times Square, in modern day New York City. From SciFi Channel Forums & SyFy Portal
1/4/09: According to Tahmoh Penikett, Helo's ending was "obvious" and he "fought against it." Apparently, the ending was changed and he "had a little bit of influence on that. I’m happy with the end of my storyline and it will surprise people.” From Newsarama
1/2/09: Romo Lampkin will be "back for the end." Sheppard also says that even if the audience read the script and "knew what was going to happen, it still wouldn’t come close to how good the actual realization is." From IF Magazine
11/8/08: Captain Sarah Alchemer as well as a character simply called 'Police Officer' are listed as appearing. From IMDB
9/16/08: According to Helo: "Everybody dies. We have a dark ending...Obviously you know, those last couple of episodes, they're going to blow your mind. They are going to go down in history as the best television ever done." Now, before you freak out, remember the Six Feet Under finale? Everybody dies eventually. From EOnline
9/6/08: Jamie Bamber had this to say about how the show ends: "Ron really made the ending about character because I think there's a lot of pressure with a muscular show like ours to end with story...Well, there's definitely allusions to a future and there's definitely questions asked at the end, but I think that's what good endings are all about. It does pretty even-handedly deal with everyone you love in the show. Everyone gets a really good signing-off note." From ComicMix Interview
8/30/08: James Callis said the ending reminded him of Apocolypse Now. From Cinema Blend
8/11/08: Xeno Fenner (David Patrick Green), Captain Doyle Franks (Susan Hogan) and Judge #2 (William Samples) are listed as appearing. From IMDB
8/7/08: Zak Adama (Tobias Mehler) is listed as appearing the final three episodes of the series. From IMDB
8/4/08: There are some apparently spoiler-y bits from an end-of-shooting montage: a longer-haired Lee, wearing a flak jacket;
setup for shooting a scene at Baltar's house back on Caprica;
a strip club with both Six and Ellen seen on stage while Tigh sits watching;
Adama in a civilian business suit and possibly sitting up at the same stage;
Baltar and Six wearing a short black dress on a location shoot in downtown Vancouver;
Six in a flak jacket and holding a weapon;
A bloodied Doral (Four) pointing a gun in what looks like a Galactica corridor;
Six in the little red dress on location in downtown Vancouver;
Roslin standing waist deep in a pool with wet hair;
Ron Moore in a flight suit;
Lee, Athena, Kara and Helo in flak jackets in a corridor or inside a building;
Baltar wearing the same suit that Inner Baltar wore at the city location shoot with red-dress wearing Six
7/27/08: Baltar and a Six fire weapons as they are involved in a firefight. From Entertainment Weekly
7/25/08: On the very last day of shooting, someone saw James Callis (Baltar) and Tricia Helfer on a location shoot in Vancouver. The description lends itself to it apparently being one of Baltar's head conversations since Six was described as wearing that red dress. From Television Without Pity Forum
7/22/08: Jamie Bamber's final scene had him filming alone with the second unit until 4:45AM. The scene involved him running around "shooting at stuff" with extras. The first unit was somewhere nearby because he heard their cheers when they wrapped. As with a previous interview, he went with a "no comment" over whether Lee lives or not. From Kristin
7/4/08: Rekha Sharma's reaction to the finale: "I just read the ending, and it's so ----ing beautiful ... at one point my heart was racing for about 10 pages, then for 10 pages I was crying. I was on the plane, and the person next to me probably thought I was insane. It's intense. It's a kind of resolution to all the storylines, but at the same time it's like life, life does go on." From The National Ledger
7/4/08: More location shoot photos show Roslin actually walking into the pond and under a water fountain. The poster described her acting as "despondent/desparate." From paulman
7/3/08: The 13th Colony has photos of a location shoot for the finale. Roslin in what looks to be casual summer attire. The scene looks to be back on Caprica in the same location that was first seen as the marketplace in the miniseries where Six killed the baby and then again in Roslin's flashbacks to her negotiations with the teachers' union where she remember -
2/22/09: "[On February 19th], we completed the last of three orchestral scoring sessions for the BG finale, the final orchestral recordings of the series. It was a very emotional experience, but the music has exceeded my expectations. It will, fittingly, be the most epic, lush, intense and beautiful BG score I’ve ever composed." From Bear's Battlestar Blog
2/17/09: According to Kate Vernon, Ellen arc ends with "a peaceful resonance, a mythical resonance at the end." From Zap2It
2/4/09: Both Athena and Boomer appear. From Galactica.tv
1/22/09: More from the poster who indicated that Ellen was the Fifth: Galactica "goes down in flame." From SciFi Channel Forums
1/21/09: Jamie Bamber described, "Every scene that we shot was sort of a farewell to a certain event or character or location or set." From Star-Telegram
1/19/09: Describing Lee's story arc, Ron Moore said, "His role as leader of the civilian government will become even more important in the second half of the season and Lee will provide a key idea in the final episode that brings the show to its conclusion." From MediaBlvd
1/17/09: Even though Katee Sackhoff wanted Kara to be alone, she says "at the end of [the series]... I'm trying to figure out what I can say. She's not alone." That said, Katee said she "wasn't disappointed. It was a fantastic end for [Starbuck], and the only way I think it could have happened." From IGN
1/16/09: According to Jamie Bamber, Lee's climax is "about Adama and Kara." From TV Guide
1/15/09: Jamie Bamber says, "Who's to say the cinder planet the audience saw was a look into Earth's future? Maybe it's the far, far past. It could be prehuman. That question will stand until the climax of the show." From TV Guide
1/10/09: The final scene of the series is supposedly Inner Six, wearing that little red dress, walking through Times Square, in modern day New York City. From SciFi Channel Forums & SyFy Portal
1/4/09: According to Tahmoh Penikett, Helo's ending was "obvious" and he "fought against it." Apparently, the ending was changed and he "had a little bit of influence on that. I’m happy with the end of my storyline and it will surprise people.” From Newsarama
1/2/09: Romo Lampkin will be "back for the end." Sheppard also says that even if the audience read the script and "knew what was going to happen, it still wouldn’t come close to how good the actual realization is." From IF Magazine
11/8/08: Captain Sarah Alchemer as well as a character simply called 'Police Officer' are listed as appearing. From IMDB
9/16/08: According to Helo: "Everybody dies. We have a dark ending...Obviously you know, those last couple of episodes, they're going to blow your mind. They are going to go down in history as the best television ever done." Now, before you freak out, remember the Six Feet Under finale? Everybody dies eventually. From EOnline
9/6/08: Jamie Bamber had this to say about how the show ends: "Ron really made the ending about character because I think there's a lot of pressure with a muscular show like ours to end with story...Well, there's definitely allusions to a future and there's definitely questions asked at the end, but I think that's what good endings are all about. It does pretty even-handedly deal with everyone you love in the show. Everyone gets a really good signing-off note." From ComicMix Interview
8/30/08: James Callis said the ending reminded him of Apocolypse Now. From Cinema Blend
8/11/08: Xeno Fenner (David Patrick Green), Captain Doyle Franks (Susan Hogan) and Judge #2 (William Samples) are listed as appearing. From IMDB
8/7/08: Zak Adama (Tobias Mehler) is listed as appearing the final three episodes of the series. From IMDB
8/4/08: There are some apparently spoiler-y bits from an end-of-shooting montage: a longer-haired Lee, wearing a flak jacket;
setup for shooting a scene at Baltar's house back on Caprica;
a strip club with both Six and Ellen seen on stage while Tigh sits watching;
Adama in a civilian business suit and possibly sitting up at the same stage;
Baltar and Six wearing a short black dress on a location shoot in downtown Vancouver;
Six in a flak jacket and holding a weapon;
A bloodied Doral (Four) pointing a gun in what looks like a Galactica corridor;
Six in the little red dress on location in downtown Vancouver;
Roslin standing waist deep in a pool with wet hair;
Ron Moore in a flight suit;
Lee, Athena, Kara and Helo in flak jackets in a corridor or inside a building;
Baltar wearing the same suit that Inner Baltar wore at the city location shoot with red-dress wearing Six
7/27/08: Baltar and a Six fire weapons as they are involved in a firefight. From Entertainment Weekly
7/25/08: On the very last day of shooting, someone saw James Callis (Baltar) and Tricia Helfer on a location shoot in Vancouver. The description lends itself to it apparently being one of Baltar's head conversations since Six was described as wearing that red dress. From Television Without Pity Forum
7/22/08: Jamie Bamber's final scene had him filming alone with the second unit until 4:45AM. The scene involved him running around "shooting at stuff" with extras. The first unit was somewhere nearby because he heard their cheers when they wrapped. As with a previous interview, he went with a "no comment" over whether Lee lives or not. From Kristin
7/4/08: Rekha Sharma's reaction to the finale: "I just read the ending, and it's so ----ing beautiful ... at one point my heart was racing for about 10 pages, then for 10 pages I was crying. I was on the plane, and the person next to me probably thought I was insane. It's intense. It's a kind of resolution to all the storylines, but at the same time it's like life, life does go on." From The National Ledger
7/4/08: More location shoot photos show Roslin actually walking into the pond and under a water fountain. The poster described her acting as "despondent/desparate." From paulman
7/3/08: The 13th Colony has photos of a location shoot for the finale. Roslin in what looks to be casual summer attire. The scene looks to be back on Caprica in the same location that was first seen as the marketplace in the miniseries where Six killed the baby and then again in Roslin's flashbacks to her negotiations with the teachers' union where she remembered seeing Baltar with Six. From The 13th Colony
6/20/08: The casting of the extras for the finale's location shoot has been completed and included a questionnaire that asked among other things, "Are you comfortable being filmed in a bathing suit?" From BClocalnews.com
6/17/08: Mary McDonnell mentioned wandering over to the Caprica set in a hospital gown with IV in tow and looking bald. The timing would seem to place this during filming of either episode 419 or 420. From EW.com article
6/15/08: The episode will include location shooting with the need for both male and female extras of "all ages and ethnicities" described as having "athletic build and a clean cut look or be slim with long hair or dreadlocks." From BClocalnews.com
11/3/07: VFX supervisor Gary Hutzel has been told by Ron Moore to watch the FX budget because "there wi -
2/22/09: "[On February 19th], we completed the last of three orchestral scoring sessions for the BG finale, the final orchestral recordings of the series. It was a very emotional experience, but the music has exceeded my expectations. It will, fittingly, be the most epic, lush, intense and beautiful BG score I’ve ever composed." From Bear's Battlestar Blog
2/17/09: According to Kate Vernon, Ellen arc ends with "a peaceful resonance, a mythical resonance at the end." From Zap2It
2/4/09: Both Athena and Boomer appear. From Galactica.tv
1/22/09: More from the poster who indicated that Ellen was the Fifth: Galactica "goes down in flame." From SciFi Channel Forums
1/21/09: Jamie Bamber described, "Every scene that we shot was sort of a farewell to a certain event or character or location or set." From Star-Telegram
1/19/09: Describing Lee's story arc, Ron Moore said, "His role as leader of the civilian government will become even more important in the second half of the season and Lee will provide a key idea in the final episode that brings the show to its conclusion." From MediaBlvd
1/17/09: Even though Katee Sackhoff wanted Kara to be alone, she says "at the end of [the series]... I'm trying to figure out what I can say. She's not alone." That said, Katee said she "wasn't disappointed. It was a fantastic end for [Starbuck], and the only way I think it could have happened." From IGN
1/16/09: According to Jamie Bamber, Lee's climax is "about Adama and Kara." From TV Guide
1/15/09: Jamie Bamber says, "Who's to say the cinder planet the audience saw was a look into Earth's future? Maybe it's the far, far past. It could be prehuman. That question will stand until the climax of the show." From TV Guide
1/10/09: The final scene of the series is supposedly Inner Six, wearing that little red dress, walking through Times Square, in modern day New York City. From SciFi Channel Forums & SyFy Portal
1/4/09: According to Tahmoh Penikett, Helo's ending was "obvious" and he "fought against it." Apparently, the ending was changed and he "had a little bit of influence on that. I’m happy with the end of my storyline and it will surprise people.” From Newsarama
1/2/09: Romo Lampkin will be "back for the end." Sheppard also says that even if the audience read the script and "knew what was going to happen, it still wouldn’t come close to how good the actual realization is." From IF Magazine
11/8/08: Captain Sarah Alchemer as well as a character simply called 'Police Officer' are listed as appearing. From IMDB
9/16/08: According to Helo: "Everybody dies. We have a dark ending...Obviously you know, those last couple of episodes, they're going to blow your mind. They are going to go down in history as the best television ever done." Now, before you freak out, remember the Six Feet Under finale? Everybody dies eventually. From EOnline
9/6/08: Jamie Bamber had this to say about how the show ends: "Ron really made the ending about character because I think there's a lot of pressure with a muscular show like ours to end with story...Well, there's definitely allusions to a future and there's definitely questions asked at the end, but I think that's what good endings are all about. It does pretty even-handedly deal with everyone you love in the show. Everyone gets a really good signing-off note." From ComicMix Interview
8/30/08: James Callis said the ending reminded him of Apocolypse Now. From Cinema Blend
8/11/08: Xeno Fenner (David Patrick Green), Captain Doyle Franks (Susan Hogan) and Judge #2 (William Samples) are listed as appearing. From IMDB
8/7/08: Zak Adama (Tobias Mehler) is listed as appearing the final three episodes of the series. From IMDB
8/4/08: There are some apparently spoiler-y bits from an end-of-shooting montage: a longer-haired Lee, wearing a flak jacket;
setup for shooting a scene at Baltar's house back on Caprica;
a strip club with both Six and Ellen seen on stage while Tigh sits watching;
Adama in a civilian business suit and possibly sitting up at the same stage;
Baltar and Six wearing a short black dress on a location shoot in downtown Vancouver;
Six in a flak jacket and holding a weapon;
A bloodied Doral (Four) pointing a gun in what looks like a Galactica corridor;
Six in the little red dress on location in downtown Vancouver;
Roslin standing waist deep in a pool with wet hair;
Ron Moore in a flight suit;
Lee, Athena, Kara and Helo in flak jackets in a corridor or inside a building;
Baltar wearing the same suit that Inner Baltar wore at the city location shoot with red-dress wearing Six
7/27/08: Baltar and a Six fire weapons as they are involved in a firefight. From Entertainment Weekly
7/25/08: On the very last day of shooting, someone saw James Callis (Baltar) and Tricia Helfer on a location shoot in Vancouver. The description lends itself to it apparently being one of Baltar's head conversations since Six was described as wearing that red dress. From Television Without Pity Forum
7/22/08: Jamie Bamber's final scene had him filming alone with the second unit until 4:45AM. The scene involved him running around "shooting at stuff" with extras. The first unit was somewhere nearby because he heard their cheers when they wrapped. As with a previous interview, he went with a "no comment" over whether Lee lives or not. From Kristin
7/4/08: Rekha Sharma's reaction to the finale: "I just read the ending, and it's so ----ing beautiful ... at one point my heart was racing for about 10 pages, then for 10 pages I was crying. I was on the plane, and the person next to me probably thought I was insane. It's intense. It's a kind of resolution to all the storylines, but at the same time it's like life, life does go on." From The National Ledger
7/4/08: More location shoot photos show Roslin actually walking into the pond and under a water fountain. The poster described her acting as "despondent/desparate." From paulman
7/3/08: The 13th Colony has photos of a location shoot for the finale. Roslin in what looks to be casual summer attire. The scene looks to be back on Caprica in the same location that was first seen as the marketplace in the miniseries where Six killed the baby and then again in Roslin's flashbacks to her negotiations with the teachers' union where she remembered seeing Baltar with Six. From The 13th Colony
6/20/08: The casting of the extras for the finale's location shoot has been completed and included a questionnaire that asked among other things, "Are you comfortable being filmed in a bathing suit?" From BClocalnews.com
6/17/08: Mary McDonnell mentioned wandering over to the Caprica set in a hospital gown with IV in tow and looking bald. The timing would seem to place this during filming of either episode 419 or 420. From EW.com article
6/15/08: The episode will include location shooting with the need for both male and female extras of "all ages and ethnicities" described as having "athletic build and a clean cut look or be slim with long hair or dreadlocks." From BClocalnews.com
11/3/07: VFX supervisor Gary Hutzel has been told by Ron Moore to watch the FX budget because "there will be a full-on conflict at the end of the season. Develop the last two episodes, which are supposed to be gigantic, never before seen effects and also deliver fast, fast, fast, that's extremely hard." From VFX World
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Oh my god that trailer was so funny! " I must prepare them for the second coming! " It's just not the 70's anymore!
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Riiiiight, Lee Adama was always politically informed. He also always wanted to be a lawyer. I remember because he told that when the writers decided to take a sharp, out-of-nowhere turn for his character. Tigh, (and the Chief to a lesser degree), cottoned to his newfound Cylonity in record frakking time. In - dare I say - completely out-of-character record time, with little on-screen illustration as to his change of heart. The next thing you know he's stoked that he knocked up a Six. The guy hates Cylons more than anything, but as soon as he finds out he is one - and on top of that, one whose nature is obviously different from what had been previously show, and whose nature is also mysterious to the nth degree - his reaction quickly turns to banging a (formerly known as) Skinjob. At any rate I never said "whoever they would have picked to be a cylon would make me say the same thing", so that's NOT according to me. As far as Baltar goes, what they did with him is basically the same as what they did with Starbuck - take away what made their characters intriguing in the first place. It's that simple. I'll assume you're joking about being fed religious ideas by the "Cylon on his head" ...
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"Last time I checked, there was a charred body in Kara's Viper." If Starbuck was truly dead, then she wouldn't be walking around Earth in the first place let alone discovering her own dead body now would she? Regardless, RDM led everyone to believe that Starbuck was killed off the show, that she wouldn't be returning, that her character had gone the way of the dodo. Even Sackhoff was instructed to perpetuate the belief that she wouldn't be returning.
"I trust what he says, if you don't, that's your own affair." And the affair of everyone else who thought she wouldn't be returning. Based on what you're saying I gather you didn't buy into the character's "death," and you did believe that she would return.
"My point is that people who are looking to someone other than Roslyn as the dying leader are grasping at straws and seeing the future in chicken guts." And my point is that not everything on this show is as clear cut as we would like to believe.
I will also point out that I do believe that Roslyn is the dying leader, and I don't believe that the Galactica is the dying leader. -
Didn't Ron Moore already say that Starbuck is not a Cylon? If the piano player is Daniel why didn't Ellen recognize him in the bar?
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Lee was shown to be a political idealist in season one, when he says he read Zarek's book and to a certain extent, agreed with some of Zareks points, while Bill didn't see it that way.
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Of course Tigh's character changes when he learns he was a cylon. My point was that ANYONE who learns they are a cylon would result in a major turn of the character. Any character chosen would have had a serious change in the direction of that character, so, your point that Tigh unexpectedly changes when he learns he's a cylon applies to anyone who learns they are a cylon, they change. unexpectedly. period. And yes, the 6 that only baltar sees convinces him that he is an instrument of the one true god--so him preaching about a one true god was inevitable once he started to believe it. I'm not a joking, its been something that was building up within Baltar's character since season one. Face it, you're just one of those people who convinces themselves that they have found a hole in the plot or writing and no amount of logic and history of the show will make you change your mind.
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The final five hid the fact that they were cylons for a handful of episodes. Plus, Tigh is the one who tells them to go on being the same people they had been before learning they were cylons. The only one who changed immediately was Torri, but it makes sense that if one of them learned they were a cylon they would get it in their head make them think they were 'perfect.' And the reason Tigh has a baby with a 6 is because when he talked with the 6, he was seeing Ellen, probably when they were fucking, too.
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That doesn't mean he was political idealist. hat he always was was wired a little differently from his dad, his ethics were different -that was the conflict; that's why he agreed in some way with Zarek. It was an illustration of the difference between he and his dad, not laying the groundwork for him dropping out of the military a few years later ... Instead of allowing it to develop naturally, Lee suddenly had a lawyer grandfather, always wanted to be a lawyer and promptly became one. If there's proof out there that the writers always planned to have Lee change in that way, I'll eat my hat, but they still did a poor job of it. It was bullshit. As was the ridiculous bit with Baltar's lawyer where they spent an episode more or less describing Lee, saying "but where oh where can we find such a person" then in the most telegraphed moment in television history go "Eureka! It's gotta be you, President Lee Obama, I mean Adama!"
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I said they fucked up the characters by changing them from everything that made them cool in the first place. If you like the fact that Tigh became a Six-boinking pussy, then that's your good luck I guess. And your assessment about what someone would do when they discovered their a Cylon is anything but airtight. There's no "period" there, it's a completely fantastical situation. And I don't buy it. It rings falsely for me, like more than a few character turns on the show. If it doesn't for you, again - congrats.
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Just about every character, Roslin definitely included, on this show has done absolutely heroic things and absolutely godawful things. If you can't relate to a show with those sorts of characters, you need to be watching a different show.
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"How does she not recognize her own mother?" -- We don't know that Hera thought it was her mother. Certainly she thought it was someone friendly. Boomer said "look what your mother brought you" (which bystanders would assume meant "look what I, your mother, have brought you," but which Hera might have read as "look what your mother asked me to give you") and then quickly sticks the drink in her mouth both to drug her (presumably) and to forestall her saying anything like "Hi, Auntie Boomer." We know from the past (e.g. Natalie) that Hera is willing to toddle off trustingly with people she knows aren't her parents.
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Thanks for the info
but it would have been more readable
if you'd use HTML breaks
like this. -
but this - and last week's episode - were both shit
seems they managed TWO good eps this season (wait, are they still trying to pretend it's NOT a new season, even tho it's a whole other YEAR and all?) but then again they were a two-parter so I guess you could really count them as ONE good ep - and that's par for the course on this show since Season 1... -
Oh, and posting it just once instead of four times would also have been a plus.
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"If the piano player is Daniel why didn't Ellen recognize him in the bar?" -- He wasn't in the bar, he was in Kara's head.
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Sold!
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I think the more pressing question is how Kara didn't recognize her own father.
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I love how the die hard BSG wankers accuse everyone who wants the mind numbing monotony of BSG to be broken up by a little action now and then of having "no life". That's rich, coming from the folks who think that saying "Frak" every 10th word, and seeing a little Cylon side-boob is compelling television.
BSG has become a dreary and repetitive soap opera with no discernible plot or interesting characters. They all deserve to die miserably as they probably will, and it will be good riddance to a show that sadly had so much potential. -
One thing I'll say for this show is I no longer get taken out of it when they say frak. It sounds pretty natural to me at this point.
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So what is your motivation for posting here?
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Zoe Graystone? The ressurrected human (or hybrid) daughter of the Caprican scientist, Daniel Graystone, who somehow invented slave Centurian race, and maybe resurrection technology for humans? If that's the case, then perhaps there is an stronger connection between the final five (or six?) and Dr. Graystone. Perhaps the surviving Earthan Cylons got to The Twelve Colonies a leeeetle sooner than they're letting on, and it was they, themselves, that sparked the first Cylon War by giving resurrection technology to the Capricans, first, in exchange for helping them recreate the Cylon race. Perhaps the idea was to then create an integrated merged society, but instead, their creation, John Cavill, turned on them with the idea of killing all humans and evolving as super-nova surfing AI machines. Any way, just a theory, we shall see.... But I am loving the final episodes of this amazing show!
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How dare you disrespect side boobage. Next thing you will be disparaging "nip slips", camel toe and pokies. For shame Sir, for shame.
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Love it
Chillens getting all upset you dislike a char in a story
At this point I hope the only survivors are Helo, Athena, and Hera.
Also I consider Boomer to be another of Cavil's victims.
We know he's tampered with the 5, killed all the Daniels, and corrupted their resurection matrix (or whatever) so they can't be brought back.
I'd say its a good bet he reprogramed Boomer so that she is incapable of disobeying her. She's his hole card. And another victim of his. -
And it even has visions of a serpent. You see how ridiculous that was? And it's just a valid as saying a freaking inanimate ship is a "leader."
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incapable of disobeying him*
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That there is only another month of this overrated, poorly filmed, smugly produced, fanboy masturbation toy left to run.
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I thought that was the inference to be made. Her dad is the artist (or musician, Daniel). I know people already said this, but other people are saying other shit so it bears repeating. Or something like that.
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I have no idea if Glen Larson is a shithead or not, so I can't comment there. I checked the ratings and they are decent...for CABLE tv. I just think if the people that run Universal were completely happy, they would end the show and not even consider doing a movie that would differ from their own new version. The new version is better, I like it, but it's gritty, dark stuff. Rape, suicide bombers, suicide, executions, mutiny, a serial killer, Adama grimacing and drinking, Tigh making grimcing faces and drinking, Kara making faces and drinking, threesomes...okay, I kinda like that last part. I can deal with all of that, but they might think it would attract more people if it wasn't such a downer. I mean, I half expect the fleet to strap themselves with bombs, slit a few thousand wrists, airlock themselves by the hundreds in a competition to see who can off themselves in the most fucked up miserable way by the end of the season! They've had good solid stories over the 4 season run, but to broaden the audience they might need to lighten the tone a little for the big screen.
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I agree with you, Season 4.0 was shameful. They totally fucked up when it came to the Watchtower four. Nothing particularly interesting came out of it. They REALLY, REALLY dropped the ball on it. I feel Lee's move to "lawyer" (as a law student, I'm pretty upset that all he has to do is have a stack of old lawbooks thrown at him to qualify for that title) was hamhanded as well.
Nonetheless, I've accepted those flaws, not as something necessary, but as something I can dismiss/ignore considering the way 4.5 is playing out so far, and in the greater context of the show as a series. -
"If Starbuck was truly dead, then she wouldn't be walking around Earth in the first place let alone discovering her own dead body now would she? "--- That depends on what "really dead" means to you, and to RDM. Thing is, we DON'T KNOW if the person who returned in Revelations ACTUALLY IS Starbuck. It's a slight variation on the identity theme that's been running since the show began. Where once it was that a character thought they were human, only to discover that death was meaningless because they weren't human, but rather Cylon, "Kara" now has to decide whether or not she is the same person who flew into the MAELSTROM, or a new being, or a copy of Kara Thrace, or Kara's soul moved into a new location, or whatever the case may be.
RDM answered as honestly as he could on this issue, but sadly, mouthbreathers like some of the ones on this board inevitably were going to ask "DUH.... COULD YOU TOLD ME IF'N STARBUCK IS REEELEEE DEAD?" as if he had a good option to choose. In response, RDM said that Katee Sackhoff's name was gone from the credit sequence for the rest of the episodes they've finished. That wasn't exactly a courtroom perjury.
By contrast, RDM has said on several occasions (unprompted / no one asked directly if she was) that Roslyn was the Dying Leader.
"Based on what you're saying I gather you didn't buy into the character's "death," and you did believe that she would return."-- No, I looked at how he CLEARLY DID NOT say Starbuck would never return, and knew that the answer was purposefully dodging the question. There's a difference between lying and being elusive. -
I enjoyed it in the first couple of seasons when 'Frak' was used sparingly--it seemed more as a fan service than some lame replacement for the 'F' word. Now it seems as if it's used every other word, as if the use of it makes the show 'edgy'. It doesn't. It makes it repetitive and silly.
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"I think the more pressing question is how Kara didn't recognize her own father."--- Several reasons, I suspect.
Look at the picture of Kara's Father. He was wearing a hat and a scruffy beard. If that's how Kara remembers him, then she probably would not associate him with the cleancut pianoman "Slick."
Second, the guy is dead. Is it logical to assume you're going to see them after they've been dead for years?
Third, Kara was a small child when he left. Who's to say she remembers him clearly?
Fourth, it may be that she is intentionally repressing the knowledge that this is her father.
Fifth, it may be that SOMETHING is preventing her from knowing the truth.
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I'm KINDA with you ... I don't think that they've done a very good job with this cycle, 4.5 or whatever. There's been more bad or "eh" episodes than good. Each episode that has gone by has led me to decrease expectations. Season 3's ending started that trend, then the horror show of S4.0 ... I had hopes of them pulling out of the nose dive and a miracle landing; now I'm hoping to minimize the damage. Maybe a crash landing to stretch an already bad metaphor.
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"That's rich, coming from the folks who think that saying 'Frak' every 10th word, and seeing a little Cylon side-boob is compelling television. "
Maybe we're happy with the word Frak, and Cylon sideboob, and find that there's a lot more to the show than just that (and you damn well know it, unless you're a total retard).
Maybe the better question is why do you feel it necessary to troll a BSG talkback if you dislike it so much. At least I'm wasting my time on something I enjoy... your presence in this talkback seems like the action of a madman or just a garden variety ass-hat.
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My assumption was that the picture on the cassette wasn't the only one she had after he'd left. Even if not, she wasn't THAT young in those flashbacks. Kids don't generally forget shit like that.
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"[could Starbuck be] Zoe Graystone?"---Seems extremely doubtful. We just met her father, and it wasn't Eric Stoltz.
"Daniel Graystone, who somehow invented slave Centurian race, and maybe resurrection technology for humans? '--- I'm not sure that Graystone invented resurrection technology. Zoe Graystone invented a way to copy her personality and DNA into an avatar, and Daniel Graystone comes up with a way to fuse this into a mech/flesh body, but I'm not sure that is the same as resurrection.
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What a nightmare it must be for you that once a week for 60 solid minutes on one of the hundreds of television channels available they play a show you don't like. Stay strong friend. Only 3 more weeks!
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My point is that there ARE good explanations out there as to why she didn't recognize her father. Whether you find any of them plausible is your own affair.
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Maltheus--- I actually heard it was the shitstain on Lee's underwear that actually turns out to be the Dying Leader, and not the underwear itself.
"I just think if the people that run Universal were completely happy, they would end the show and not even consider doing a movie that would differ from their own new version."---- I personally assumed that Larson ran an RDM BSG tape under a Universal execs nose, and said "I can make you money."
" They've had good solid stories over the 4 season run, but to broaden the audience they might need to lighten the tone a little for the big screen."--- Hey, if it's good its good, and I'll have to eat my words on it.... but as much of Larson's work as I've seen, I don't think he has enough creativity or talent to produce anything worth my time. -
You mean other than BJ and the Bear, correct? FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN tell me you find BJ and the Bear with your time.Obviously I'm talking the later episodes with Judy Landers as Stacks.
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A "good" explanation IS plausible. On the other hand, the converse isn't true, dramatically: It may be plausible, but if they don't make it play, it aint good. In this case, the default assumption is a 6 year old (or thereabouts) would never forget their disappeared father's face. I haven't studied it scientifically but anecdotally that's the pretty strong impression I've gotten. There are other things that could happen, but they're far more unusual, so they need at least to be suggested. You shouldn't have to even ask these questions. It's a minor point, but typical of the issues this show has.
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My problem with last weeks show and this week's has to do with the Chief's character and motivation. Last week he votes to leave Galactica to be with the rest of the Cylons. Really? He's going to leave behind the ship, it's been his responsibility to look after right in the middle of massive experimental repairwork knowing that if it fails it could mean the death of everyone on Galactica? Then in this week's episode he chooses not to leave with Boomer, even though he's got to know that it's only a matter of time before they trace her the means of her escape back to him and execute him for treason? And then he has the vision of being alone in the house without Boomer or the child? That scene would have worked if Boomer had asked him to meet her, and then left without him. As it is, she wanted him to leave with her, he was ready to leave last week, and this week when he's a hair's breath away from being executed for treason he decides to stay? Makes no sense.
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"That depends on what "really dead" means to you, and to RDM." Really dead means just that: dead. Admiral Cain is dead. Commander Fisk is dead. Kendra Shaw is dead. Cally's dead. Gaeta's dead. Zarek's dead. Evidently my definition of dead matches RDM's definition of dead, otherwise those characters I just listed would have returned to the show.
"Thing is, we DON'T KNOW if the person who returned in Revelations ACTUALLY IS Starbuck. It's a slight variation on the identity theme that's been running since the show began. Where once it was that a character thought they were human, only to discover that death was meaningless because they weren't human, but rather Cylon, "Kara" now has to decide whether or not she is the same person who flew into the MAELSTROM, or a new being, or a copy of Kara Thrace, or Kara's soul moved into a new location, or whatever the case may be." Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't tests run on Starbuck in the episode He That Believeth In Me? Those same tests established that she was indeed Kara Thrace and not a cylon. So we know that she is indeed Starbuck, however her brand new viper and the dead body she found still leave us suspecting something else. Regardless, the character Starbuck wasn't killed off, she returned.
"RDM answered as honestly as he could on this issue" I understand that. I comprehend what RDM was trying to do, and I don't fault him for it. The guy was trying swerve us, fair play. However, its still a lie by omission at the very least, plus nothing else RDM told us diverted us from what we saw happen in the Maelstrom: Starbuck's ship exploded and she died.
"There's a difference between lying and being elusive." Like I said, there's lie by omission. If you're not telling the truth, then you're lying. Its analogous to omitting a key fact in a deposition, and then getting on the witness stand and claiming that you didn't reveal that fact because nobody specifically asked you about it.
"By contrast, RDM has said on several occasions (unprompted / no one asked directly if she was) that Roslyn was the Dying Leader." And that's why I believe that Roslyn is the dying leader :oD (of course there was nothing stopping RDM from changing his mind, but that's an argument with no end) -
Do we know for sure that Slick even looks at all like Kara's dad? Last season someone (heck, maybe Kara's dad for all we know) appeared to Kara as Leoben but admitted he wasn't. Maybe Kara's dad in this latest episode appeared to her as a stranger, and she eventually recognises him because of what he does and not what he looks like.
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Like others have mentioned
is she died basically on a gas giant. Her ship exploded and was torn to pieces in a gigantic storm on that planet. Then she reapears months later and I'm guessing several jumps later. Then on earf there's a mostly intact cockpit with a corpse thats missing its face.
I can't wait to see how that's explained away. -
"In this case, the default assumption is a 6 year old (or thereabouts) would never forget their disappeared father's face. "--- Yeah, I think that's a fair assumption. We know he was rarely around anyways since he was traveling all over the place, we know his physical appearance was different, and we know he left when Starbuck was possibly no older than 5-7 years of age. I find it very plausible myself.
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Mar 01, 2009 8:27:55 PM CST
Wah wah wah, thers not 'nuf 'splosions! All the eps this season
by rhuragh
4x11 - Sometimes a Great Notion: Excellent episode. 5 of 5 Adama Hugs. A little bit of action, though mostly centered on some INCREDIBLE character work. 4x12 - A Disquiet Follows My Soul: Again, mostly character work and exposition setting up the following two episodes. A little bit of implied action with the mutiny on the tylium refinery. 4 of 5 Adama Hugs. 4x13 - The Oath: First part of Gaeta's mutiny on the Galactica. Nothing but action. 5 of 5 Adama Hugs. 4x14 - Blood on the Scales: Second part of Gaeta's mutiny. Again, nothing but action. 5 of 5 Adama Hugs. 4x15 - No Exit: Lots of character work and fairly fast-paced exposition. Critical episode setting up the end of the series and explaining a large portion of the mythology of the show. 4 of 5 Adama Hugs. 4x16 - Deadlock: More character work and exposition. Considered by most to be a major misstep and loss of momentum. 3 of 5 Adama Hugs (and that's being charitable). 4x17 - Someone to Watch Over Me: Mostly character work and exposition directly setting up the end of the series. A bit of significant action (and a really big 'splosion!). 5 of 5 Adama Hugs, the last hug for Bear McCreary and Michael Nankin's excellent work integrating the music with the narrative so intricately. So, two out of seven episodes were _completely_ action based, with another with significant action elements. That's not too bad. And all but one episode is four out of five Adama Hugs or higher.
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By the way. This TB is HUGE. We'll definitely break 800 posts, and if the arguments continue, who knows? I doubt this one will hit a thousand posts, but it's entirely possible that the finale will at the rate they've been growing over the past few weeks.
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FUCK NO!
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"Evidently my definition of dead matches RDM's definition of dead,"--- Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether RDM thinks of the character who showed up at the Series 3 finale as Starbuck, or as something else.
""There's a difference between lying and being elusive." Like I said, there's lie by omission. If you're not telling the truth, then you're lying. "--- That's bullshit. What's your name, phone number, social security # and bank account PIN number. Anyone who doesn't answer you, under your definition, is lying by ommission.
It's like I said, RDM ignored the question by saying "Katee's name will be gone from the opening credits." If that's the best you can do to cast doubt on what RDM says, then yeah, I'm still willing to believe what he says. -
Remember when Cavil was talking to Ellen about "The Colony"? It contains the Final Five's original equipment. I'm thinking it might be the Final Five's ship from Earth, and that is where Daniel is at. He used the equipment to resurrect, Kara gave her a ship and sent her on her way. I'm in the #7 Daniel is Kara's dad camp. There's too many clues pointing to it, especially the reveal that Kara's dad knew AATW. Seriously, why would that point be in there if that's not the inference?
Now, about Tigh's age. Pretty obvious to me...Tigh's old. Too old for Cavil's plan because he needed him around for long time. So he simply rolled the years back in the clone tank a bit so Tigh would still be alive to participate in his sick little plan. What's the problem in just rolling with that explanation?
And finally, to address the Daniel Greystone issue. Daniel Greystone was around before the Colonial Cylons. Daniel #7 was created sometime in the 40 years following the first Colonial Cylon war. #7 is NOT Daniel Greystone. #7 could be based off of him, however. But not from the Final Five, which would lead to the idea that perhaps the original 6 skinjobs requested the #7 model be based off the original creator, or "One True God". If he's Kara's father, maybe he got switched on early in the game by playing that song, and left to go on a mission to The Colony to start plans against Cavil. -
It's plausible that she might forget his face, but is it likely? I think anyone who works with or studies kids that age would tell you it's not very likely, and that the opposite would happen, that his face would practically burned into her retinas, and if not, his voice thrown into the mix (no pun intended) would throw it over the top. If they want to got the route of a plausible but unlikely circumstance, I'm saying the onus is on them to acknowledge that in the script - at some point have it established that she doesn't remember the guy. Don't make people work at this shit, coming up with reasons why things aren't the way they normally play out. Come up with the reasons yourself, that's what I'm saying about the writers. There's just far too much explaining on the part of fans. Some of these explanations are reasonable, some plausible, some just silly - but it's a failure of the show that these discussions are heavy on "why the fuck did such and such happen" and "well it could be for this unlikely reason not found in the text". I guess that's why they're called plot holes ... The committed viewer then finds himself covering them up.
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Just wanted to chime back in and point out that "Slick" didn't know AATW. He was just playing along with Kara's chart. I don't think in any was "Slick" was supposed to be Kara's dad....maybe he was supposed to remind her of him, however.
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Agreed. The Chief's behavior has been inconsistent, to say the least.
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Maybe we're happy with the word Frak, and Cylon sideboob, and find that there's a lot more to the show than just that (and you damn well know it, unless you're a total retard).
Correction: There used to be a lot more to the show, but not any more. I'm always amused by people who defend crappy writing by admonishing the critics that the show is "too intelligent" for them, or "they just don't get it". I get it alright, and the only thing the writing has become is intelligence insulting.
Right about when the writers of BSG decided to use the show to make lame political statements (Cylon occupation of New Caprica = U.S. "occupation" of Iraq) was when the writing started to go downhill, and fast, and ever since then, the show has been nothing but wasted opportunities, huge setups, followed by even bigger let downs.
First, there's Gaius Baltar--the man who unwittingly betrays Humanity to the Cylon genocide. Originally set up to be the main human antagonist aboard Galactica, has gone from being a complex character of motivated self-interest, to complete irrelevancy as the silly head of a silly harem of cultists that have nothing to do with anything else going on in BSG. This pretty much goes for all the other characters, who pretty much do nothing except drink, fuck, and say 'Frak' for 45 minutes.
Then there's the 'Final Five'. The set up was huge with this one, but the payoff was beyond weak to say the least. The 'Final Five' Cylons that was so intriguingly set up are in reality a random bunch of secondary characters? Sure. Right. And they're not gods, they're 2,000 year old scientists from Earth? Insulting.
And finally, my personal favorite: Hera. She's a miracle baby--the only offspring of Humans and Cylons, and fulfillment of some mysterious prophecy, and so important that she literally disappears from the show and the plot. In the mean time, we find Tyrol and Callie married on New Caprica, and they have a baby. Except now Tyrol is a Cylon, and now there's TWO miracle babies! Oh, wait--there's only supposed to be one miracle half-breed, so Hera miraculously resurfaces, and Callie is revealed to have been a cheating whore. It's a perfect example of sloppy writing, and the solution was 3rd rate soap opera cliche`.
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The internet is a great place to go if you want to read people trashing something you love. Any topic, any hobby.
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Mar 01, 2009 9:24:20 PM CST
"[Athena] didn't exactly do anything directly that would have le
by shan
Right near the start of the talkback, it's posted "[Athena] didn't exactly do anything directly that would have led to the entire destruction of a model line."
There was that small matter of her being in total favour (in fact urging the Colonials) to use the virus to wipe out *every* *single* Cylon in existence. Oops!
By the way a virus that lives on a probe in deep space for thousands of years, doesn't harm humans *or* pregnant Cylons but destroys humanoid Cylons, Raiders, Centurions and all Cylon hardware/software and somehow? might be downloadable. Makes the red dust from "V" look like the pinnacle of hard science. Was this the most stupid plot device/deux ex machina ever? -
That space battle at the start of episode 1 was actually pretty good.
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In the scene where Kara plays AATW at the piano, the Four walk up to the piano and ask her where she learned it. She was alone at the piano when we clearly see Slick sitting with her playing it!
Maybe it WAS her dad, but a Cylon projection. The pic of the opera house cassette shows a guy with long hair. If it IS her dad, and Daniel, he wouldn't have aged and now has short hair and is scruffy. Of course she wouldn't have thought it was him, but over the course of the episode I think she figures it out...when she plays AATW she remembers a move that her dad did as a kid, and then "slick" does the exact same thing, and then she remembers him touching her face and "Slick" does that as well. After re-watching that part I'm 100% convinced Slick was her dad, and also not there. Was it her father, Daniel, projecting to her from wherever he's at, finally helping her to understand what she is? Looks possible, to me. -
And can someone explain to me how Tyrol can knock out a Boomer look-a-like Cylon, carry her to the brig without being seen, get past the guards, into the cell, replace her for Boomer, then get Boomer past the guards, all just because the lights went out? Fucking retarded.
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There was chaos in the ship and rebuilding areas. Quit nitpicking and try to enjoy something. Sheesh.
Ass=stick=remove -
What are your thoughts on the heavy raider that Starbuck spotted and followed before her ship blew up? It could have easily picked up the wreckage of her ship along with her body and jumped to earth. Of course, this would open up the question of what the heavy cylon raider was doing there and who it was serving.
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They repeatedly say there was no ship on Dradis. She was following a vision.
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"'Slick' didn't know AATW. He was just playing along with Kara's chart." -- Look at Slick's face as Kara is starting to play it. He's looking at her, waiting to see her reaction -- he definitely knows what's coming.
"Maybe it WAS her dad, but a Cylon projection." -- Yes, that's the general view; take a look at the zillion posts above yours on this topic. -
"Anyone who doesn't answer you, under your definition, is lying by ommission." That wasn't my definition at all. Here's an example of what I meant: let's say, hypothetically, that your girlfriend went out, saw her friend, hung out with them, then had sex with him, then came home to you. You ask her about her day, she answers that she went out and saw her friend and hung out with him. All of that was true, only she omitted to tell you that she had sex with him because she had the intention of deceiving you. RDM lied by omission because he intended to deceive the audience by not spoiling Starbuck's surprise return at the end of season 3. If he didn't want to deceive his audience then why say anything at all? By saying, "look her ship exploded, her name isn't in the credits any more" coupled with the fact that Sackhoff was instructed to act like she had left the show proves that he wanted everyone to believe that Starbuck had died. Again, fair play, and I understand why he did it, but it doesn't change what he did.
Under your example, if someone intentionally remains silent point blank after being asked for personal info such as an SS# or dodges the question all together, there is no intent to deceive (unless of course the person intentionally gave different information). That's effectively a statement of "No, I'm not going to give you my information."
Its all about the intent of what you want to do. RDM intended to deceive his audience in order to keep the secret alive, after all what's the point of a surprise if you're not going to do anything to protect it? -
Sorry Shan, I should be more clear. I was correcting the subject line of my previous post (which was trimmed due to length), and was speaking in jest. I was mocking the people who say this season hasn't been good.
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"#7 is NOT Daniel Greystone. #7 could be based off of him, however. "---Not necessarily so.
I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. We know that Graystone pioneered a technology where a person's complete memory and DNA could be replicated in a new body. Does this make him the same as Graystone? That depends on how you want to look at it.
Another thing to conisder is that the Final Five know the secret of organic memory transfer. Again, you are forced to ask yourself whether a transferred memory makes one a new being, or if this is simply shifting someone's soul to a new vessel. If you think it is the latter, then I have to point out that #7 could very well be Daniel Graystone.
As a last option, it may be that the #7 line is based off of Daniel in the same way that John Cavil is based on Ellen's father.
Until we know more, Daniel Graystone CANNOT be excluded as a candidate for #7's true identity. -
Sorry, Daniel Greystone is not #7. The Five made a bargain with the Colonial Cylon Centurions to give them bodies and resurrection. If there is a tie to Greystone, it will be that 7 was in his image, but why wait till the 7th model to do that? I don't buy it. Besides, we probably saw Daniel as Kara's father at the piano, and it wasn't Eric Stoltz.
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"Right about when the writers of BSG decided to use the show to make lame political statements "--- The show has ALWAYS made political statements. From the miniseries on. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them lame for the rest of us... and thank goodness! It would really suck if pikers like you determined the tastes of humanity.
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"What are your thoughts on the heavy raider that Starbuck spotted and followed before her ship blew up? It could have easily picked up the wreckage of her ship along with her body and jumped to earth. Of course, this would open up the question of what the heavy cylon raider was doing there and who it was serving."--- Yeah, I'm not so sure that answers any more questions than it creates.
It's hard to say, but there's one scene where it looks like Apollo recognizes a heavy raider. I'm inclined to say he didn't, but it doesn't really matter as it does us no good. -
"Sorry, Daniel Greystone is not #7. "--- He cannot be excluded. If you can prove otherwise, please do. I'll give you the reasons why he cannot be excluded for your criticism:
1. We know from "Caprica" that a human being can be "resurrected" as a Cylon. Their memories and DNA can be taken and applied to a new body.
2. We know the Final FIve know the secret of organic memory transfer. It is unknown whether or not a human can be transferred, but as that possibility CANNOT be dismissed, neither can it be dismissed that Daniel is actually Daniel Graystone transferred into a new body.
3. We know from RDM that #7 Daniel is a player in the show "Caprica."
Notation: Premise # 1 and #2 depend on whether the creators feel that a resurrected Cylon (either the Graystone Caprica style or the Final Five/ Significant Eight) is the same as the person who was resurrected.
Have at it. Maybe you can point to some winning piece of evidence that hasn't been discussed yet, but as it stands, it seems impossible to exclude Daniel Graystone as a candidate for #7.
"why wait till the 7th model to do that?"-- I don't pretend to know the "why"... I could make some shit up, if you'd like, but that's not gonna do us much good. I'm more interested in the idea that it's possible.
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I don't get it. Why are you here? Are you trying to persuade us to stop watching this show? I don't understand why you're constantly pointing out every tidbit from the show that you have issue with.
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No, not the relative entertainment merits of the show. THE TALKBACK POSTS!!! Take those bastards down a peg or two. Another couple posts and we got 'em!
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Just a couple more? Okay, there's this one ...
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... and now there's this one.
What do we win? -
Where is everyone getting all the Caprica info? Bit Torrent bootlegs or something. I see Tai_Pan basically posting long plot points from the show (and without ever using SPOILER in his posts) It's a little annoying if you ask me.
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Satisfaction.
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" I see Tai_Pan basically posting long plot points"--- This isn't inside information. It's in the press releases and commercials.
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"All of that was true, only she omitted to tell you that she had sex with him because she had the intention of deceiving you."--- There's a difference, JD. You just underscored it. RDM ducked the question of whether Starbuck would return. But he actually *said* that Roslyn was the dying leader. That's a difference between not being forthcoming and outright lying. You may not personally see a difference in effect, but if nothing else you have to admit that there's a difference in gradation/scale.
By the way, notice very carefully how RDM responded to the question "Did Galactica find Earth"... -
"nothing else you have to admit that there's a difference in gradation/scale." Fair enough, I definitely have to agree with that.
By the way, can you provide me with a link to RDM's response to the question of whether Galactica found Earth? The only thing I heard/read is this:
Question: "That planet is Earth? We're not going to find out, "Oh, there's this other Earth over here..." This is the only Earth we'll see?"
RDM: "They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth."
I'm sensing another swerve here. First, he withheld answering the question over whether there was another "Earth." Plus, he probably knew full well that the interviewer meant OUR Earth when he asked, "That planet is Earth?"
You can find this at:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html
Also, RDM has stated before that the show would end with the fleet finding Earth (I'm assuming he meant OUR Earth, lol). -
No, that's the response I was referring to. I certainly noticed his exact wording and raised a suspicious eyebrow.
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Mar 02, 2009 1:10:30 AM CST
Guys, you're dangerously close to the "George Lucas Boundary"
by burnhollywood
This is the point at which you, as a fan, are actually putting more thought into a movie or program than the writers.
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We roared and we rampaged and we got bloody satisfaction.
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Yeah, I blogged about that a while back: http://tinyurl.com/dewco3
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As I sit here with my rose tinted specs cranked up to eleven, I can safely say that the season 1 episodes I vaguely remember were far superior to the current episodes that are fresh in my mind, just like The Simpsons and 24.
Back in those days it was all exciting plots like running out of water, running out of food, running out of fuel. Intense. Now what do we have? A compelling final chapter jam packed with great character moments? Bullshit! Bring back the running out of stuff! -
and episodes. How's that?
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I think we find out in the end the Galactica is just a Cylon illusion, and the entire of the show has taken place in the Opera house on an ancient Kobol.
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but it's just not the same. I almost had a full on boner this week when I thought we were getting a running out of toothpaste episode, but it wasn't meant to be.
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Mirrors the words used in 4.11,
Tigh: "The Thirteenth Tribe, a tribe of Cylons, came to this planet and called it Earth.” -
the last few episodes (deadlock, etc.) have been REALLY lame and boring. Where's the suspense? shouldn't we be building up to something huge? Is there even gonna be some kind of final battle? Can they not afford special effects anymore? WTF?
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Did you see that last episode with JohnLocke? that shit was great! BSG is making me yawn.
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Oh yeah! Just rewatched Razor, the Young Husker Chronicles would be an awesome spinoff, instead of Caprica. Show Cylon war 1 and the adventures of young Husker with some old school Battlestars versus old school toaster hardware.
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watching BSG is like the equivalent of eating your own shit, a collective being of waste accumulated only to flatter the not-so-intelligent human; one who would rather go to a strip club than to go make something out of his miserable life. you know that pervert that is always seen in the strip club everyday---thats a BSG watcher.
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I should squeeze you guys a milkshake. I have been known to make an excellent squeeze. please go ahead and enjoy your freshly squeezed milkshake.
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I agee about Lost, for the first time ever I've been enjoying Lost way more than BSG.
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You are SUCH a dickhead. Every fucking time I come into a BSG talkback you're here bleating on about Stargate Atlantis. You are the very definition of a talkback troll. FUCK OFF.
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Great quote re: the internet. I also agree with you about Kara's dad at the piano. But you're wrong about Boomer's escape - that's not nitpicking by mach6. Even if the ship is in disarray to an extent, we're talking about dragging an unconscious, bloody person from one end to the other then getting her into a PRISON CELL. It's not like he put her into the mess hall. It's not a make or break it thing, but wouldn't it be better if they didn't have the viewer make such huge assumptions? Just 10 seconds of the Chief with the 8 in a cargo box or something, then switching Boomer into it in the dark - anything to avoid viewers filling in substantial holes like that.
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The show always did political stuff, and I think always did i it in a contrived way - like when they "tortured" the number 2 early on. It just seemed like the moral quandary was played up to an extent to make it dovetail with current events, but it didn't resonate exactly within the dramatic flow of BSG. Still that was a minor bump in the road. As seasons progressed, and particularly beginning with the New Caprica beginning to S3, I felt the limits of the show's internal logic being stretched out of shape for storylines that would accomodate the writers' ambitions to comment as quickly as possible on real-world hot-button issues.This, combined with the missteps in establishing the nature of the Cylons and in particular the clusterfuck that is the Final Five really hamstrung the show.
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All I can say is they've got 3 more episodes to really kick this thing in and go out with a bang, I hope you were wrong about this whole show turning lame but it's not looking great so far.
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The whole Final Five plotline is a mess...and it stems from the aging issue. So Cavil introduced Ellen and Tigh back into the colonies in their twenties, but Anders and Tyrol as newborns with human parents? Where did the Ellen body come from if they were all destroyed? Why create it in the first place? Where is the Cylon "plan" that's been a tagline of the show since the first season. What are the chances that with tens of millions of people in the colonies, 4 of the final 5 all end up conveniently on the Galactica? Who set up the trigger event that led them to the realization that they were Cylons if it clearly wasn't Cavil? Why was it "All Along the Watchtower" ?
It's the same thing on the LOST boards. You invest years into a show and when the end draws near, the writers seem woefully unprepared for the endgame. When you voice your concerns you're just accused of being an idiot because you haven't filled in all the gaping plot holes with your imagination. That shouldn't be required. -
I am always ready to wipe the slate (relatively) clean if they can just pull some of this together but I doubt they will. I started this sub-season thinking the same thing and it's been all over the place, so ...
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I think "the plan" all along was to destroy humanity and have the FF witness it. Also I'm pretty sure they introduced the FF back into the world at differant times. I think they were all guided to there final destinations after the Holocaust but I don't think Cavil thought they would make it as far as they did. I belive he expected them to die during the attack and when the didn't somehow "the plan" might have changed.Anyway like I've said in the past the show isn't over yet so it's hard to judge. I have not really been into the last two episodes they've felt kind of boring but hopefully this story really kicks in and explains it all in these next 3 episodes.
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"Whether the Cylon skin-jobs can age, have the aging switch turned off, or have their clones artificially aged to any specific age is completely irrelevant to the story. This is the sort of technobabble that the writers have SPECIFICALLY tried to avoid from the start of the miniseries. Many of the writers come from Star Trek TNG and DS9, and have a lot of experience with how established pseudo-science technobabble can limit drama. As such, they had no interest in writing themselves into a dramatic corner such that they could do some specific story line because they had already established that graviton particles interact with solaron fields to produce subspace instability. "It's like, who wouldn't agree that technobabble is a drag on any decent drama, but reducing a looming, unavoidable question about the very nature of one of the major elements of the show to technobabble is either disingenuous or myopic. There's a huge difference between that and shit like that (pretty funny) subspace instability spiel.
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We will see soon enough, like I've said in the past it's not over til the credits roll. This whole thing could take some crazy turn. Anyway I think I'm a little more forgiving than some people on here, for example the age thing does not bother me at all. I know its an issue that should be cleared up but I could let one go.
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Some people couldn't accept the struggle between the president and Adam early on, the civil rights issues and all that - because the (almost definitely correctly) figured under those circumstances, all the back and forth between the civilian govt and the military simply would not happen ... The stakes are just too high. However, I didn't mind - it served a purpose, and the conflict was usually well done. I think for me it's when they flout the rules they've already set up. This started in a major way when the Cylons conveniently had a change of heart so they could occupy New Caprica instead of blowing it up, enabling the writers to have an "occupation" storyline to echo Iraq.
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I draw the line at boring. Like two weeks ago and the boxing episode.
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http://tinyurl.com/c6a9my
My favorite
"There is an amazing, well written ending to the show that ties many discreet plot elements together that nobody expects, but the Sci-Fi Channel refuses to broadcast it until 2015. In the meantime, there are seventeen different Galactica-related spinoffs to watch, all of them terrible."
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I think during the "occupation" story line only a group of Cylons decided to try and live with the humans. Is that incorrect? Then the rest were off doing what ever Cylons do. I'm assuming thats when "the plan" changed cause it was clear the FF were still alive.
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(1) The piano player is Daniel. That is why the episode a week before was so important.
(2) Daniel is Kara's father....making her a hybrid
(3) Music triggers certain actions of the Cylons, which makes sense since music and math are universial languages
(4) Something is guiding both the humans and the cylons to some shared existence, I beleive Daniel figured this out and that is why he mated with a human and had Kara. Cavil wants to prevent the union of hybrids and cylons and become pure machine....he told you this in the Boomer escape episode.
(5) Cavil believes that pure machines, and not skinjobs are the perferred existence....the final five believes that the union of human and machine is the ultimate existence...Cavil hates this and wants to stop it.
(6) Anders will explain all when he is locked into the Baseships data stream (they told u tis in last weeks episode)
(7) Laura is the dying leader...the ship is a methaphor
(8) The "humans" who have in head cylons are actually hybrids...Gaius, Kara, Laura Think about it, It took Gaius to move humanity out of the colonies with his treason...it took Laura to suggest finding Earth, which has set them on this journey and it took Kara to actually keep them on this course. -
How so? Last time I checked, when I watch an episode of BSG, it has an ending (LOL) and I can still go to the grocery store and afford top ramen for dinner afterward. Try that one, strip club regular. And jizzing under 3 layers of sweat pants quietly does not equal an "ending" if you know what I'm sayin'. And when I get home from BSG my wife never finds stripper's revenge (glitter) in my hair.
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What about "this has all happened for a reason" plot line?Good post by the way I agree, but I wouldnt be suprised if it took a turn in some crazy other direction.
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"The whole Final Five plotline is a mess...and it stems from the aging issue."--- Seems to stem from the plot turning a direction you didn't care for. Most viewers seem to have accepted the explanation given in the show.
"So Cavil introduced Ellen and Tigh back into the colonies in their twenties, but Anders and Tyrol as newborns with human parents?" ---- You're making shit up. You assume that they were sent as children, when you have no idea WHEN they were introduced. Tyrol seems to have been introduced no earlier than a few years before the Attack on the Colonies. Same as Anders. Whether they were introduced 3 years before the attack, or 30 years, there's been no confirmation.
"Where did the Ellen body come from if they were all destroyed?"--- You're making shit up again. When was it said that all the Ellen copies were destroyed? It quite specifically said that all the Daniels were destroyed, which suggests that NONE of the others were.
"What are the chances that with tens of millions of people in the colonies, 4 of the final 5 all end up conveniently on the Galactica?"--- You're assuming things. We know that Cavil made sure Ellen made her way to the fleet. We know he protected Anders on Caprica. We know Cavil was acting as Chaplain/ spiritual advisor for Galactica, thus was in a position to keep an eye on Tigh and Tyrol. It may be that Cavil had something to do with Tyrol being assigned to Tigh's ship (we've seen that the Cylons manipulated the military into sending Lee to Galactica. It may also be that he had something to do with Tory ending up in the fleet as well... who knows? None of Tory's backstory has been confirmed. He might have only released her after the attack on the 12 Colonies. All in all, I'd say the odds are pretty damned good when the Cylons are pulling the strings.
"When you voice your concerns you're just accused of being an idiot because you haven't filled in all the gaping plot holes with your imagination. That shouldn't be required."--- The problem in BSG is NOT that the plot holes are gaping. They aren't. You simply don't have the dedication or perhaps the memory to recall the information given in the show to fill them in.
I'm quite happy they didn't feel the need to spoonfeed those plot points to people like yourself, because that would be unnecesary and repetitive.... Sorry, but you can't be OCD *and* unattentive for this show to be worth your while. -
"The whole Final Five plotline is a mess...and it stems from the aging issue."--- Seems to stem from the plot turning a direction you didn't care for. Most viewers seem to have accepted the explanation given in the show.
"So Cavil introduced Ellen and Tigh back into the colonies in their twenties, but Anders and Tyrol as newborns with human parents?" ---- You're making shit up. You assume that they were sent as children, when you have no idea WHEN they were introduced. Tyrol seems to have been introduced no earlier than a few years before the Attack on the Colonies. Same as Anders. Whether they were introduced 3 years before the attack, or 30 years, there's been no confirmation.
"Where did the Ellen body come from if they were all destroyed?"--- You're making shit up again. When was it said that all the Ellen copies were destroyed? It quite specifically said that all the Daniels were destroyed, which suggests that NONE of the others were.
"What are the chances that with tens of millions of people in the colonies, 4 of the final 5 all end up conveniently on the Galactica?"--- You're assuming things. We know that Cavil made sure Ellen made her way to the fleet. We know he protected Anders on Caprica. We know Cavil was acting as Chaplain/ spiritual advisor for Galactica, thus was in a position to keep an eye on Tigh and Tyrol. It may be that Cavil had something to do with Tyrol being assigned to Tigh's ship (we've seen that the Cylons manipulated the military into sending Lee to Galactica. It may also be that he had something to do with Tory ending up in the fleet as well... who knows? None of Tory's backstory has been confirmed. He might have only released her after the attack on the 12 Colonies. All in all, I'd say the odds are pretty damned good when the Cylons are pulling the strings.
"When you voice your concerns you're just accused of being an idiot because you haven't filled in all the gaping plot holes with your imagination. That shouldn't be required."--- The problem in BSG is NOT that the plot holes are gaping. They aren't. You simply don't have the dedication or perhaps the memory to recall the information given in the show to fill them in.
I'm quite happy they didn't feel the need to spoonfeed those plot points to people like yourself, because that would be unnecesary and repetitive.... Sorry, but you can't be OCD *and* unattentive for this show to be worth your while. -
"(1) The piano player is Daniel. That is why the episode a week before was so important. "---- Daniel wasn't mentioned last week. Nothing in this episode referenced Daniel, either. IMO, this episode seemed to make Daniel a less-likely candidate.
"(4) Something is guiding both the humans and the cylons to some shared existence, I beleive Daniel figured this out and that is why he mated with a human and had Kara."---- The theory is interesting and can't be ruled out, but the evidence is really weak. All we know about Daniel was that he was artistic, is a player in the show "Caprica" and is said to have been destroyed. Frankly, I think that's not enough to start calling him Starbuck's dad.
"Cavil wants to prevent the union of hybrids and cylons"--- That's a guess. Never before has the show made that claim.
"and become pure machine....he told you this in the Boomer escape episode."---No, that isn't what he said. Cavil said that he PERSONALLY wanted to be more machine-like. You can't take that and apply it to everyone. You don't know if he cares what anyone else does with themselves. We know he wants revenge, but you're implanting a motivation that hasn't been established.
As a completely legitimate alternative motive, he may simply have stolen Hera in order to blackmail the Final Five into reproducing resurrection technology.
"(8) The "humans" who have in head cylons are actually hybrids...Gaius, Kara, Laura Think about it, It took Gaius to move humanity out of the colonies with his treason...it took Laura to suggest finding Earth, which has set them on this journey and it took Kara to actually keep them on this course."--- Again, it's an interesting idea, but the evidence is slim. And you're forgetting that the Final Five saw the same beings yet they were not half-breeds, but full-blooded Cylons. -
You make a good case. I would even add that when Ellen was introduced everyone thought she was a Cylon, that was a nice touch in my opinion. So really to me with the discovery of the FF it just makes "the plan" so much more in depth and intense.
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Well, according to Close Encounters of the Third Kind, anyway. I guess that's enough evidence though.
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1 ) I ( obviously ) don't know how to do spacing, and 2 ) I only hit "post" one time, so I have no idea why it posted four times!
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Sure everyone knows Einstein, after traveling through time, based most of his best work on Close Encounters. It's a fact.
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If the nitpickers really need an explanation on the aging then it's pretty fucking simple really. A Cylon brings biological information with it when it transfers to another body. The DNA "code" literally becomes a part of the information that is sent to the new body.
This is why the ancient virus from the Nomad probe was going to infect all of the Cylons. Remember?
This is also why Cavil didn't have to have an Ellen body around, she brought her code with her. (and it's safe to assume that it took a little time to grow the Ellen body, which is why they keep copies of the other models on hand)
Further, we know Cavil can mess with the code any way he wants, which is how he created sleeper agents like Boomer. He can implant false memories, complete identities in fact, and in the case of the 5 he can also rewrite their code so they are reborn at whatever age he chooses.
See, simple, now shut the goddam mothefucking hell up and stop being bitches. -
Does anyone else think that Baltar is a hybrid like Hera and possibly Starbuck? It would explain the Head 6 projection and how he survived being blown up on Caprica.
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Thats why I come here. Answers to some of lifes biggest secrets. Funny no one else thought of that thats a good explanation
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I hope you don't think Einstein ever used math or music to communicate with anyone in the universe besides humans. Or, if you do think that, I hope it's for good reason. Like the Hjii'cli from Alpha Centauri came down to confirm his poetic remarks or some shit.
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Even if that was a good explanation, even if it was THE explanation, it doesn't excuse the laziness or lack of know-how that created this situation where viewers are forced to come up with quasi-scientific theories to explain stuff the writers can't be bothered to.
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"the Cylons conveniently had a change of heart so they could occupy New Caprica instead of blowing it up" -- That "change of heart" was specifically borrowed from the original series (at the end of "Saga of a Star World").
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Actually, I think Einstein used math to communicate with Bob Dylan who then used music to communicate with Ronald D Moore. RDM was told to use All Along the Watch Tower, which has an encrypted code from Einstein, in a musical version of BSG. Unfortunately RDM used "in head visions" to communicate with the higher ups at the studios, so natually they were confussed. In the end we got this Sci-Fi network version, which is not what Einstein had invisioned at all. So to answer your question no I do not think Einstein used music or math to communicate with ETs, that would be silly.
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Since the show was not done in a musical Einsteins message has not been transmitted properly so that explains "this has all happened before and will happen again" thing. We will keep getting differant versions of BSG until it's turned into a musical with all along the watchtower. I think I read they're trying to make it a movie now is that wrong?
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2nd favourite from the "20 possible endings" website: "It is decided that the fans will write the last episode. A Wiki is set up where anyone can contribute to the script. The server crashes for a week before enough capacity is added to allow for the millions of hits. After a week-long window of contributions, the script is finalized and the last episode consists of three hours of space battles against a planet-sized centurion robot and a lesbian four-way between Six, Kara, Athena and another Six. And then they die."
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He only flew on one mission before the war ended.
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and Starbuck sings "All along the Watchtower" on the bridge of Galactica to turn the robots against Cavil in a battle of epic proportions!
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So many of us out here basically checked out of the show when the "Final Five" or "First Five" (or whatever they're supposed to represent this week) because their selection by the writers was both arbitrary and illogical.
I asked the question earlier in the talkback and no one has answered to my satisfaction. How does one become a career military officer of high rank with (presumably) security clearance without having an established backstory and parentage? That's Tigh. If he wasn't born conventionally and aged conventionally, his rise to his current military rank is as implausible as the chief successfully pulling the "Boomer switcheroo" this last episode.
Ditto for a political attache' to a high ranking government official. One doesn't just appear out of thin air and get this kind of position without some kind of background.
What about the famous Pyramid player? If Donovan McNabb had always been the same age, had never played amateur ball and had no parents or childhood friends and given the media scrutiny we know such individuals face, do you think we might know about those small facts?
Even chief would have to be extensively background checked to qualify for his position. Even though he would be the least problematic of the four, it still flies in the face of common sense that he could walk up to a employer, interview for the job of head engineer of one of the Colonial fleet's former flagships and not be subject to a little identity verification.
This is all putting aside my assertion that either the four/five were placed in the fleet by Cylons or Cylon elements, thus making the subsequent Cylon attacks on the fleet incongruous, or they survived the bombing of the Colonies by chance which seems a statistical impossibility.
I completely reject the catch-all explanation of the "in heads" as the manipulators of this situation.
Just for kicks, let us say that the "in heads" positioned the five in the fleet and have some sort of plan brewing.
#1 - That plan must have nothing to do with the Cylon plan at large. The Cylons spent the good seasons of the show trying to destroy the fleet and wipe out the survivors. The "in heads" would have to represent a new third faction and have some sort of completely separate and totally unknown agenda thus far not referenced in any episode of the show. At this late stage of the series, if they're planning on shoehorning a third faction in, that would be yet another out of nowhere plot contrivance and thus would add only more problems to the mix.
#2 - If there was any point beyond a dramatic device to the "in heads," why in the heck do they seem so completely random in the things they say, the guises they wear and the properties they have? One episode they're pacifistic and religious, the next they're bloodthirsty and nihilistic. They can appear as Cylons, but also as other characters if we feel like it. Oh, also they're invisible and intangible unless suddenly we need them to appear and then disappear to advance the storyline. Argh.
It seems plain to me that the "in heads" have evolved and mutated through the seasons with many contradictions that now will be completely ignored as the series comes to a close. First, it looked like we were just talking about Six in Baltar's head. People speculated that Baltar was implanted with either a transceiver or perhaps a bit of her consciousness. Then, the writers decided to throw us for a loop and have her appear on the Galactica and do some things. Then, she went poof again. The writers decided that was a bad precedent and dropped the idea. Then, the original idea was chucked as other characters began appearing in Cylon heads. It's like the actors were wanting to try out some different things and they got to explore a different aspect of their character. But, now, it seems In Head Baltar has now also been abandoned as a bad idea. (Too bad too, because who didn't like seeing Baltar once again playing the dashing and brilliant manipulator?) Then, there's the unfortunate flirtation they had with the "ghost Six" picking Baltar up and moving him around. This is the prototype of throwing an idea at the wall and then pretending it never happened.
Bottom line, if there's an explanation on the show before the end which makes all the phenomena we've seen with the "in heads" make sense -OR- adds one whit to justify the appearance of the Five in the fleet, I'll come on here immediately and beg the gods for forgiveness.
Now, I'm done. Y'all can ignore me and get back to filling in the gaping gaps with your fanboy rationalizations and imaginations. -
Here's your rationalization:
We all know the show was largely made on the fly, at least from about the halfway point in season 2. When something like that happens, which is frequently, especially with multiple writers, not everything is going to be perfect. Not every idea will stick. It's organic. Would I have preferred them to have plotted the entire thing from the start? Probably...but then again maybe alot of the ideas may not have been good back then. Part of writing like that is the fact that sure, things may not go how you envision them, but the evolution means you also get cool ideas too, that you may not have had when the characters were new.
So to me, it becomes a question of A) do I accept the writing style and enjoy what is great about the show or B) endlessly pick it apart and destroy my love for the show from analyzing every detail.
I'm sticking with A. This is one of, if not my favorite shows ever. There's things I'm not 100% with on the show, don't get me wrong, but I've NEVER seen a movie or show that I'm totally 100% with. If I went about things like some people around here, I don't think I'd ever enjoy ANYTHING. -
Cavil has earned a place with the all time bad guys.It seems the only thing that he doesn't do is the Hannibal Lector thing and eat people - unless there's something about the Daniel situation that Ellen didn't share.
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I think Daredrummer is right that any TV show of this sort is going to have its flaws by its very nature. I personally don't think a four or five season show planned from the very beginning down to the smallest detail would take full advantage of the medium. You have to be able to run with things that present themselves, in the writers' room, or because of actors (a good example of this is Benjamin Linus on Lost, who wasn't originally going to be a lynchpin of the overall mythology), or whatever.All that being said, I think BSG's problems go beyond that built-in wiggle room, in (as I've described above in this TB) trying to shoehorn certain concepts or commentaries into the show, or by having characters behave inconsistently to have a shocking moment or to advance the plot. They basically took the flexibility of the medium and bent it till it broke.
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"How does one become a career military officer of high rank with (presumably) security clearance without having an established backstory and parentage?" -- Cylons can game computer records if anyone can.
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_ You have summed up some of my major gripes better than I ever could- It's sad how much this show SUCKS now, especially coing from a former super fan who saw the potential of what this show could have been and was wiped out for stupid gotcha writeing moments by lazy writers.
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Daredrummer, you're right of course. I don't want to be uptight to the point of being unreasonable. But, Thunderbolt is right, too. The revolving door of plotlines and characters who are nearly re-written / rebooted each episode goes beyond the pale on a show like this. BSG is supposed to have an overall arc / plan and claims that its calling card is the strength of the character drama.
Berserkrl, I don't know what to say. I could concoct outlandish explanations for why the real world never intervened in the ascension of Anders, Tigh, Tory and Tyrol to prominant positions also. But, it would be complete fanfic nonsense that is not supported by the show or common sense. Your explanation goes beyond filling in a small continuity gap. It posits a vast Cylon conspiracy where events over decades were manipulated just so the Five could get good paying and high profile jobs and they were put in positions that would somehow ensure that they were not nuked in the initial attack or killed in the Caprican resistance. Later, after the attace, were the nukes fired at the Galactica just blanks? Were the Centurions hunting Anders missing on purpose? Oh, I know, Cavil must have changed his mind and the "in heads" manipulated everybody via Bob Dylan music... Sheesh. -
Thanks; and I do agree that they pushed some story elements too far/wrong direction. Particularly the 5 reveal, but I think they did a good job of backtracking it, especially them all being New Caprica revolution leaders. I guess I'm willing to forgive somethings in this show more than I would in other shows simply because I like it so darn much. Bias? Sure, but I can accept it. >_<
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I love this show but im very surprised at the direction they are taking the last few episodes..i expected at least a 4 or 5 ep story arc and actually thought the mutiny would last until the end. Im still enjoying these episodes but it makes me very nervy as to what lies in store for the finale
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I don't make excuses for this show. I know damn well there's been plenty of shit episodes (later half of season 3 and most of season 4.0). I'm just not a moron of the magnitude that says "TEH BATTLESTARZ IS SHIT CUZ CYLONS AIN'T 'SPOSED TO AGE!!!111ONEONE!!11"
I generally find that people who don't like the show have issues with not liking the story. Problem is, art is art, and if you don't like the story, there's no real accounting for taste. Normally this would be where most people wouldn't bother with the show anymore and would normally... well, pack up their attention and STOP TALKING SHIT on an AICN board.
...ah, but not so for a select few. These highly elect dipshits would rather claim that the show hasn't given a reason for this or that or hasn't FUCKING SPOONFED answers directly into the mushy banana paste that normally might be called a human brain.
After all, it's easier to gloss over all the answers that weren't engraved on egg-shell notation cards and delivered First-clas mail to your doorstep, and simply bash the show for it's terrible-TERRIBLE- sin of making sure that the plot is accessible to everyone in the 65-100 IQ range.
So no, I'm not apologizing... I'm just trying to explain what a loser you are for sulking in an AICN talkback for a show you don't evevn like. Nice job, asshat. As long as you're putting such effort into something you dislike, maybe you could come over to my house and do some yardwork. Or maybe you could just get the fuck out of the talkback if all you have to contribute is whinybaby bullshit. -
No one can answer your question because it's never been addressed in the show, except for Adama saying that he knew Tigh when he had hair. Thats it, thats all there is. You can take a lot from that statement or you can take nothing from it. Really whats happening with this is the writers are asking you to just take a leap of faith and get on with it. I guess they could have went the whole Lost route and had entire episodes dedicated to each one and how they ended up on Galactica but they didn't.
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Also I was under the impression that Cavel placed the FF on Caprica in order to witness the attack and suffer with the humans kind of like punishment. I didn't think he expected them to survive as long as they had. I'm I wrong on that?
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Dude Chill out; I enjoy the folks tearing the show apart!
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"could have went the whole Lost route and had entire episodes dedicated to each one and how they ended up on Galactica" -- Something like that may be what we'll be getting from "The Plan."
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You know I was thinking that as I was writing it. I don't have any doubt they could do a really great job with that and fill all those pesky plot holes.
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It looks kind of shit, is it worth the watch?
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Someone must not have read my posts also or just chose to ignore their actual content.
I really do appreciate the show for the great things it *has* done. Even as recently as Cavil's angry tirade at Ellen, my jaw was pretty much on the floor at the quality on display. So, yeah, I'm not a hater of the show. I'm a fan.
My only issue and why I've been fired up recently is how the ratio of "awesome to WTF" has been out of whack lately. It's even more distressing since the show should be kicking ass and taking names (figuratively) as the series concludes. Instead, far too much of season four in total has been filler or worse.
I mourn the loss of what could have been with this show. When it was great, there was nothing better. -
Mar 02, 2009 5:12:01 PM CST
gboybama's point about the FF and the attack on the colonies
by thunderbolt ross
Is really inescapable. It doesn't happen to bother me as much as some of the more ticky-tack things they try and gloss over for some reason, but it is just fucked up. Even if they can come up with a story behind it, I just can't see how it will be to BSG's advantage. In other words, if you have a mystery on a show, you want the reveal to bring things up a notch, not just be filling in blanks like potholes, or worse, stretching the limits of credulity. The variables involved with the FF not getting killed in the massive Cylon offensive boggle the mind. Like I said, it's not something that sticks in my craw for some reason, but it's pretty damning nonetheless. If they can explain it that would be a start. If they can explain it without incredible contrivance, even better. And the brass ring is if they can explain it in a way that elevates the show - but I'm not holding my breath for that one ... Prove me wrong BSG - please!
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Mar 02, 2009 5:14:59 PM CST
"Normally this would be where most people wouldn't bother with t
by thunderbolt ross
Uhh, no it's not. Not with just a few episodes left and an investment of four years already in the can.
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Beautiful rant. Fuck the whiners.
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*sigh*...is it a massive coincidence that the Final Five all managed to survive the attack? Maybe. Unfortunately this isn't reality, it's a story, a dramatic narrative, and sometimes you have to concede reality for the purposes of the narrative. If the Five had all died in the attack, they wouldn't be around for the writers to make dramatic fodder of their lives. What purpose would they serve, dramatically, if they weren't in the story? Sometimes you have to just shut the fuck up and accept the conceit that, out of all the houses in London, puts orphan Oliver on the doorstep of his mother's long-lost sister, where he ends up in her care finally finding the loving home he's long desired and deserved.
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ADAMAS KNOW HIM FOR 30 FRAKIN YEARS!"
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that was supposed to be in the caption bale tb
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I'll be content to hope the next episode isn't yet another squandered opportunity. As jilted as I feel by this show I've followed loyally for years, I still hold out hope they have another great episode in them. I'm just surprised that they seem to be putting it off like a homework assignment or something, promising us that they'll turn it in eventually while plotting to wait until the last possible moment.
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Come on guys? This entire show is based on another show! All the answers we seek here were given 30 years ago!
Starbuck: is a being of light!
The original star buck was a being of light and so is this one! That is why Apollo couldn't see her resurrected face for a few moments when he intercepted her new ship. It was covered by a bright light!
All of the in heads are beings of light. they are trying to steer everyone down the path that will lead them away from "all this has happened before"
I also believe that they are the actually gods of Kobol. we will be introduced to them as Zues, Hera, Hermes...etc. It will show that they created humans and we rebelled against them or some such thing. Just like our creations did to us! think "Frankenstein"
The twist at the end is also already 2 words, some numbers and a google search away!...Battlestar Gallactica 1980
They will all find our Earth in the Year 1980 or if it is an exact copy of the way things went down it will be our Earth 2010, and live here amongst us until our earth becomes the same place (in a few thousand years) as the destroyed Earth. Meaning everyone is part Ceylon just like everyone is part Cherokee now!
enter, red dressed six in time square......
they also will probably end it with six looking at the camera and accusing us of being Ceylon as well. That is why they came out with the Ceylon detector on the I-phone. so everyone goes ape shit testing each other.
I love all of the ideas everyone comes up with in this TB. We probably are all wrong. It's gonna probably be an autistic child's Day dream or something? -
Great Rant!
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And he wakes up at the end back in Season 2 when he woke up from his coma. He knows what is going to happen, so he changes time.
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(well not Big but ...)
Where is Leoben? We haven't seen a single copy of him since he turned away from Kara. His complete disillusionment was apparent, and I can see his model going into seclusion to try and figure it out, but there should be something in the plot letting us know what he's up to.
Was the actor filming something else?
For that matter, was Lucy Lawless obligated to something else? Having D'Anna just stay behind on Earth ... I don't know. There could be a point to that. If Ellen's "lab" is on Earth, maybe D'Anna finds it, who knows? -
Why the frak hasn't SF put it online yet?
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I know this is really obscure and geeky but I think I'm right. When Starbuck and the pianist were sitting at the keyboard as he began working on the "second movement" of his composition, weren't the piano riffs he kept repeating the first dramatic notes of the original BSG theme? Or am I just losing it?
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How about a fucking Spoiler Alert? I'm reading that!Heh.
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You're just not reading previous posts.
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...and OF COURSE there's a third party involved, sheesh!
The gripes I see on here are much more a case of people either not paying attention or of people with 5 minute memories who can't be arsed to keep track of details. There is very little in these gripes that hasn't been answered or that will soon be answered by the show or the upcoming "The Plan."
Specifically, Cavil placed the 5 where and when he wanted them, including aging, so they could witness his revenge firsthand from the human perspective. He didn't know they'd survive, he was probably at the ResHub waiting for them to come back so he could piss on them some more, but then something/someone intervened...
And here we have the third party that has been present in the show from the very beginning. The in-heads, beings of light, gods of Kobol, or whatever the hell they are have been in the show from goddam beginning, how in fuck can people suggest otherwise? FFS! -
I post because I love the IDEA of BSG, the concept based on the old series. Imagine what it could be if done right. Instead, we get this shitty "political" allegory where everyone is miserable and "conflicted". It's misandrist, misanthropic bullshit. Horrible. This is not BSG. So, YEAH, it bothers me. I keep trying, wanting to enjoy this turdburger. But I won't bite. You guys keep grinning with bits of corn and feces stuck in your teeth; continue to eat this shit. I'll sit back and hope they finally bring a worthy SF show back to the small screen. Lord, I hope they don't fucking "reimagine" Buck Rogers this way. Fuck.
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Here you go. http://www.youtub e.com/watch?v=aTjSckBBcHU&feat ure= PlayList&p=81E08D73648537E4&pl aynext=1&index=30
Yeah. If that's your cup of tea, then have at it. My flights of daggets sing thee to thy rest. I personally will put up with claims of snobbery and pretension to avoid watching that 70s toy commercial.
I personally don't share your grim opinion (I think the show is FAR from misanthropic... there's a difference between hating humanity and acknowledging that every society inevitably has faults that lead to suffering. If you can't see that, I'd at the very least hope you'd cue in on the themes of comradery, sacrifice, and love that have permeated this series. That alone is enough to refute a blanket claim of misanthropy. -
So because you've been watching 4 years of something you deem to be shit, therefore you should keep watching said shit? That doesn't make any frakking sense!
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"How does one become a career military officer of high rank with (presumably) security clearance without having an established backstory and parentage?"---- Tigh is just a Colonel. An XO. They're a dime a dozen. I have a feeling that whoever asked this question doesn't know that much about the military.
We've already seen that the Cylons can infiltrate society and change the entire defense network, why is it so hard to conceieve of the idea that they dropped a file ina computer somewhere? Actually, I think Tigh's story looks pretty good. SUpposedly, he was one of the few survivors of "The Brenik" which was a ship overrun by Cylons during Cylon War 1. WIth only a few survivors, that seems like a perfect place to make up some unsubstantiated bullshit about Tigh's bravery. That alone is worth bragging rights to help shoot the guy up the promotion ladder.
As we saw in Season 2, it was ADAMA'S WIFE who pulled the strings that got Tigh and Adam back into the fleet. She had political connections, and managed to get Tigh into the fleet even though he was a do-nothing drunkard banging hookers in some intergalactic skank bar.
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The new BSG sucks (to put it diplomatically). It's a chore to even watch. While I never called the original "great", at least it was fun (and escapist). I think with today's effects, a series with that sort of spirit would be pretty welcome: think Firefly (sadly cancelled). The new BSG is a steaming pile of lizard shit. It's amazing to me that they could possibly make something like BSG utterly unlikeable, ponderous, sloppy (and boring).
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My 6 demon bag sends you to the Hell of watching shows like the old BSG. You get what you deserve. For all its flaws, I will take a show like the new BSG that serves up shows with moments and emotions that were never seen in your wonderful old series.
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In hell they'll watch the "new" BSG (hence the weeping and gnashing of teeth).
I'll be sitting back watching Firefly and Farscape. And I'll take the old BSG any day of the week over this misandrist, misanthropic politically correct bullshit. Thanks, though. -
to me it seemed quite clear - I could be wrong - the FF *do* age, coz they're, you know... *special* but all the other Cylons do NOT...
again, this seems pretty obvious to me - THERE ARE MANY COPIES
we constantly see Cylons all over the place and all looking EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, assuming they were NOT all resurrected all at the SAME TIME, then all those Cylons we see all over the place are all (chronologically) different ages - and yet THEY ALL LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME!
Cavil mentioned couple weeks back that he stopped sleeping about 20 years ago - but he doesn't look 20 years older than any OTHER Cavil - so, what, does he resurrect on a daily basis?
do they ALL?
no - they simply do not age...
btw, nobody has mentioned ANOTHER Daniel that featured a while ago - the Daniel that was captured by the Cylons back in Husker's day and tried to kill Adama?
now ok I think they did the Cylon test on him, but does that shit even work? didn't seem to work on anyone but Doral, far as I can tell... -
It's very hard to convey tone on the internet, isn't it?
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When they announced the end of the show, there was only one season left. Unfortunately, the show got exponentially worse during that season. If there was another after this one, or two - I probably would just stop watching. But no, not with just a few episodes left.
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It seems criticalbliss is a browncoat still fighting the war against BSG. Remember them? Anyway, I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but the "dying leader" is obviuosly Galactica, herself.
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Once again I don't think the FF were suppose to live as long as they have. I think it's messed up Cavels "plan"
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Except for that bit about "the dying leader will know the truth of the opera house". I don't think a spaceship is all that concerned with opera houses.
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You keep saying it's impossible to like, but you do understand that we (or some of us) do like it. You get that right? Again, I'm so sorry that there is something on one hour every week on one of the hundreds of channels that you don't like. That must be quite the burden.
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This show is still my favorite.
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"The new BSG sucks (to put it diplomatically). It's a chore to even watch"--- I bet it would be if you were used to having daggets guard your encampment.
The original BSG is on the level of the Masters of the Universe movie with Dolph Lundgren, or about the intellectual equivalent of reading two Berenstein Bears books back-to-back.
"While I never called the original "great", at least it was fun (and escapist)."---Good for you. Whatever floats your boat... I think the new BSG is fun.
"I think with today's effects, a series with that sort of spirit would be pretty welcome"--- We could call it "STAR WARS EPISODE 1: THE PHANTOM MENACE"
"think Firefly"--- I'd rather not.
"The new BSG is a steaming pile of lizard shit."--- You mean like the lizards in the Old BSG? LIZARDS! ALEEUHNZ!! 'SPLOSIONS!!!
"it's amazing to me that they could possibly make something like BSG utterly unlikeable, ponderous, sloppy (and boring)."---- It's amazing to me that you could spend this much time bitching about ti. If you didn't like the show, why spend years watching it... unless you don't watch it, and are talking out of your ass. I don't know which is worse.
Here's to hoping you find a kiddie show that doesn't bother making you think about stupid things like "politics" or "religion" or "tolerance" or any of that yucky drama in the new BSG. Try Cartoon Network. I hear that Star Wars comes on that station. -
"btw, nobody has mentioned ANOTHER Daniel that featured a while ago - the Daniel that was captured by the Cylons back in Husker's day and tried to kill Adama?"--- I don't remember his name being "Daniel." I DO remember that he came from the ship "Diana."
"Cavil mentioned couple weeks back that he stopped sleeping about 20 years ago - but he doesn't look 20 years older than any OTHER Cavil - so, what, does he resurrect on a daily basis?"---- Maybe not daily, but we have no frame of reference to say that the Significant Eight do or do not age. Clearly the FF do in their CURRENT bodies, but there's no way of telling if the rest do. We don't know how many times they have died, or elected to resurrect in a new body, or what. -
about a couple of actual details on the show. Or at least, to hear those remaining ardent supporters tell it, I may have missed one or two points due to my own failings.
Example one is all this Cavil stuff. More specifically, I'm curious how much motivation and activity is attributed to Cavil on this talkback and is also backed up by being shown explicitly in the actual program.
I know that Cavil is more of a "hardliner" where the humans are concerned and he has become sort of the defacto leader of one faction of the Cylons after their split. Taht's actually been shown. (Except when one of the Cavils said that they were done with humans and wanted nothing to do with them, before that idea was summarily flushed)
Also, I was able to pick up his personal relationship with Ellen and the allusions to her personal input in his design. (Though I fear that much of that may now be flushed because we haven't seen Ellen again as cool as she was while briefly shown on the basestar.)
But, the things that people in the talkback attribute to Cavil seem back on the fanfic tip to me. Did he really say that he preserved the Five, placed them, wanted to see them squirm, etc.? I remember having my attention diverted during his truly excellent rant. So, I promise I'm not playing a gotcha game by asking for help with this. Is this something we have quotable proof of, or is this fans' filling in of the blanks as they've done with the so-called "in heads?" -
Cavil said all those things and more.
It turns out that "The Plan", the plan that seemed to change randomly throughout the series has now been revealed as Cavil's plan of revenge against the 5 rather than any of other plans we had previously believed was THE plan.
There were several seeming possibilities:
1. all out genocide of the human race
2. replaced by human/Cylon eugenics
3. replaced by peaceful coexistence and oversight of the humans on New Caprica
And maybe some others??? But these have all been completely squashed by the latest revelation that THE PLAN was Cavil's revenge against the 5. -
It was my understanding that he wanted to destroy humanity and have the FF witness and experience it first hand. I believe when the FF were not killed during the attack and it was clear they were alive in the fleet the Cylon "plan" changed. Does that make sense? It does to me but I could be wrong.
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Cavil does have a sick sense of humor!
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"Did he really say that he preserved the Five, placed them, wanted to see them squirm, etc.? "--- Ellen brings it up in "No Exit." He difinitely put Ellen on the ship to Galactica and protected Anders on Earth. As to his motivations, Ellen theorizes that he is doing this to the Final Five out of revenge... but there's going to be an entire movie dedicated to this in a few months, so see for yourself.
Speculation about Tigh, Tyrol, and Tory and how Cavil set them up is just that. Though it bears repeating that Tory has NO verifiable history before the attack, so any criticism that she "just happened" to be in the right place is also speculation. It may just as well be that Cavil released her after the attack. When you consider this, there's only 2 of the Final Five who ended up with the fleet by happenstance: Tigh and Tyrol by virtue of both serving on Galactica. -
I'm not a lawyer but yes I do believe he said that he wanted to see them squirm, maybe not those exact word but I do believe that is what he said.
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I'm sure when "the Plan" movie comes out it will put everything in place. The only problem is no one will be able to complain about plot holes anymore.
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Thanks. And all of that has been expressedly spelled out *on the show?* I don't want to get into speculation or leaked info from future shows/comics. For instance, I don't know what a Zoe is, nor do I want to since it hasn't been a part of this show to this point.
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The information about Cavil and the Final Five comes from the episodes "No Exit," "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" "Deadlock" and "Lay Down Your Burdens Parts 1 and 2." NOt from thr unreleased movie, upcoming comic, remaining episodes, or Caprica.
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