Cool News
‘Because There’s A War Coming, John!!’ LOST 5.7!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
So Charles Widmore wanted John to get the Oceanic Six back to the island as well? Weren’t Widmore’s agents constantly shooting at the Oceanic Six all last season?
I was exceedingly gratified that we didn’t have to wait until the season finale to see Jack, Kate and the gang return to the island. It was crazy that Frank Lapidus was piloting flight 316, and there was terrific suspense as we waited for that second crash that never came.
But wasn’t it weird that Jack pulled Lapidus out of his cockpit to say hello, but couldn’t be bothered on that long flight to ask Sayid who his new lady friend was?
Tonight, an episode titled “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham,” which retraces John Locke’s post-frozen donkey wheel adventures. ABC says:
Locke's fateful mission off the island as Jeremy Bentham is revealed. Guest starring are Malcolm David Kelley as Walt, John Terry as Christian Shephard, Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Lance Reddick as Matthew Abaddon, William Blanchett as Aaron, Sad Taghmaoui as Caesar, Zuleikha Robinson as Ilana, Ammar Daraiseh as Hajer, Grisel Toledo as Susie, Stephen Scibetta as foreman and John Jamal Bradley as kid. Written by Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof and directed by Jack Bender.
So what’s the deal with Sayid’s date, played by Zuleikha Robinson? Is she packing, and was she paid by someone to put Sayid on a plane to Guam? Why is she talking to Locke this week, and why isn’t she in subsequent episodes?
Kirk!! Spock!! Blu-ray!!
Who Watches The Watchmen Tie-Ins??
Galactica Prequel!!
Kirk!! Spock!! Blu-ray!!
Who Watches The Watchmen Tie-Ins??
Galactica Prequel!!
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I'm so looking forward to this.
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I'd like to accept this first on behalf of all by LOST brethren, their children, and the gods that put them here.
;-> -
when it airs. That hurts somehow.
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Who had 12:38 in the pool?
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Seeing Lance Reddick makes me wonder, how is Fringe? I caught the first few episodes, and frankly I didn't care about any of the characters, but I kind of dug the show.
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I think I won!
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we forgot it's counted only in CT.
crap.......... -
Widmore wanted to kill everyone so that he could keep the Island a secret and control it. He found it, and though he could take it. Now the Island has moved, and he needs John to be able to find it again.
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News to me.
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It's awethum!!!
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Doesn't feel as if they have put a foot wrong.
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A bloody, angry Desmond show up in Widmore's office, handing over young Charlie, and asking how he can get revenge by killing Ben?
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I am not. Waited too long for this Bentham shit to have it spoiled now!
Nice FIRST rb! -
Kate's recipes on how best eat a baby?
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Just wanted to check in and say hello.
Loving Lost this season and am amazed by the pace of the episodes. Gonna be a wild ride right through May sweeps! -
just read that there will be no new episode of LOST on March 11th...what the hell?...I thought they were going to show all the episodes straight through?...why???...this season has been amazing so far and to have it interrupted for no reason totally sucks...even a 1 week break is a ripoff as they promised not to do that anymore
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How you doing man? good to see you here.
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I think they need to coincide it with sweeps or something.
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Nope. no clips for me. they usually don't show anyhting to revealing but this episdoe is going to be epic so I want to go in blind. Jack Bender back at the helm baby!!!!
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part where Locke and Jack fight to the death for Kate's hand with Rose looking on! I wonder if Locke will break the gong? And did Kate's logic lead her to choose Locke as Jack's opponent because she knew he would kill Sawyer!?
www.youtube.com/wearemaladjusted
Are YOU Maladjusted? -
How's my favorite shrinker? Yeah, dude. I can't believe the 0-6 made it back to the island so fast! I thought they would string that storyline out til May...and END Season 5 with their return!
Amazing shit! But...I better see Vincent tonight or i'm lodging a formal complaint! -
Seriously? Hmm... that is weird. A week off isn't so bad though. Get out and have some fun for spring break maybe. Can't wait for tonight's episode, it's gonna be a barn burner!
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It could also have something to do with March Madness, which is fine by me. Go State!
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Caught this amusing line in the season 5 Wikipedia article: "...Claire Littleton (Emilie de Ravin), who follows an apparition of her deceased father into the forest and later appears in a moving cabin that is home to a semi-invisible man on the island..."
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Unless you see his ghost you better be ready for disappointment. The whole episode is off island is it not?
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I saw at least one shot of Locke talking to Ilana on the beach. I could have been mistaken, however.
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Lol...Oh...yer rite, Hobo...There probably WON'T be any Vincent sightings this week! Jip!
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...Locke ate him.
Ok, you know what? Fuck it. I think I have done everything in my power to kill my own joke. My job here is complete. -
sup shrink? Hope everything's good
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Don't think that tips off til the 18th. It probably has more to do with back timing the S5 finale so it falls in the ever important May Sweeps.
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Seriously, we've only seen his leash, right? Maybe he had a doggie nose bleed?
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Welcome back, kid...errrr, young man. Any chance you could explain those funky superpowers of yours this time?
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The madness in cludes conference tournaments my friend.
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I think it's more to do with sweeps.
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the March 11th episode will be a repeat of the previous wek's episode...no new episode...also why not take a 1 week break right before the season finale like they did last year if they want to milk it out for May sweeps?...why choose to take a break in March at the half way point of the season?...plus they might still take that week off before the seaon finale as well
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I've heard this is an extended episode that has a lot of mythological undertones/info. Maybe they wanted it to sink in with the audience for an extra week.
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i really do.
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It's going well. Hangin in like everyone else. Back to my forst love - Bartending!
That damn Lab is gonna save all their asses in the end. 2-1 Vincent latches on to the donkey wheel and winds up in Tunesia. Ok ...3-1. That dog is more of a digger then a pusher. -
I think I'm going to need to do that, if I can. I'd also prefer to see it without the retardo-text explaining everything.
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That would make sense if next week was the hiatus but its in two weeks. Next week should be the first time we see everyone back on the island which will probably reveal the direction the rest of the season will take. Choosing the hiatus in the middle of the season makes the most sense because we get the most amount of Lost before and after it.
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my mom came up to me excitedly and told me that there was someone on the phone for me. i tried to ask her who it was, but she was kinda cryptic and shit, not wanting to tell me. so i pick up the phone, and it's my grandma, who died a couple of years ago. i was dumbfounded, but then i made the conclusion that she must be on craphole island and gone back in time! it was the most exciting dream i've had in quite a while. that's how lost obsessed i am, i want the island to bring my dead ancestors back to life :)
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and last week's episode was classic lost from the classic ben lines to the mindfuck with Jin and in the end. Even Kate's goofy decision to not tell Jack about what happened to Aaron was classic lost writing. Definately one of the best of the season.
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you've been missed. hope you're doing well. ender- cheif and i tossed around some turniphead recipes in the last TB
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i have to study for an exam tomorrow. i always have some shit due on thursday, so part of me wants to just focus on school shit, but i postpone my viewing for even one night. it's hard enough to wait for 920, just to give the tivo some leash, let alone the next day. then i get so excited, i can't even stay away from the TB all day. damn. gotta focus. it's hard to check in on monday and tuesday when it's slow all day, then get the wednesday onslaught and try to avoid it to stay focused. fuck school
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didn't they just steal that line from Sarah Connor Chronicles?
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how can you like lost and not be a locke fan? his episodes are really the seminal episodes of the entire series. they almost always advance the plot further than any other character. he has shown more growth than anyone else on the island. IMHO, john locke is the star of lost, not jack as most people think
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Looks like that "army" Jack and Ana Lucia trained is finally going to come in handy! Wait...that never happened.
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Those three are making this season great for me and I hope to see more episodes focusing on them.
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this show has lost most of its appeal. The flashbacks gave us insights into what motivates these characters: their fears, secret shames, their hopes, their dark personal tragedie, the reasons why they want to push on or detroy themselves. Where once it used to be how the characters pasts affect what they did on the island, now the series has little to do with character and more to do with the island and the mysteries; how that affects the plot of the show and indirectly affects character motivation. A total reversal, and not for the better, I think. If you're really only hanging around to hear about why there is a four-toed statue on the island, maybe you'll love this recent incarnation of Lost. As for me, I miss the old days (Season1>Season3>Season2>Season4>Season5 thusfar)
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Feb 25, 2009 1:25:43 PM CST
some of these teasers really ruin shit for me (mild spoilers, wh
by arzt go boom
i try to avoid them, but the guest stars always get spoiled. seeing MDK listed up above (i think i already heard that last week, but still), doc jensen mentioning abbadon is back (i would have much rather had that be a surprise), and something else i just realized, which i haven't seen anyone else mention. it has been kind of a mystery whether locke would be able to walk when he went back off-island. but in the preview last week, we obviously see him standing up on the chair, ready to hang himself. so that pretty much ruined that mystery too, i think.
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Locke, young men and drugs seem to be part of the plot line.
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Feb 25, 2009 1:37:47 PM CST
arzt go boom, Locke walking just another badly written episode.
by evilwizardglick
Once again we see the shitty writing attempting to pass for "edgy". I bet the writers totally forgot Locke SHOULD be in a wheelchair when off the island.
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http://tinyurl.com/brjdyl
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TP- at some point, the writers knew they were going to run out of backstory for each character. at this point, we know our lostaways pretty well. we understand their demons, their motivations. if you need weekly reminders of that, then maybe you haven't been playing close enough attention. there's a lot more going on her than just the four-toed statue. glick- i have to say, i don't think there is much shitty writing happening on lost at all. these writers are tackling a really tough subject, with time travel, and they have knocked it out of the park for the most part, while staying true to the story and the characters. there is NO chance they "forgot" locke should be in a wheelchair off island. for god sakes, that's a defining aspect of his personality. they deliberately made that choice. i just wish they didn't spoil that for the audience by showing it in the preview.
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Why's that troll? There's never been anyhting to suggest thta the island's effects don't work off-island. Quite the opposite in fact. Walk away.
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island peyote of course
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The island HEALED him. It didn't give him paralysis amnesia.
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Ed - tell me what bar and I'll do my best to come down on a Sat and get thrown out. What? that's not what you do on a Sat?
;->
I had a LOST dream last week and in my cold-riddled state forgot to mention it.
Jack bled white.
That's all I remember. Don't know why he did, but he did.
Curious.
Since I was sick beginning last Wed and just getting better, I never saw last week's again. So I'm looking forward to watching them back-to-back tonight. -
I always think it's David Patrick Kelly..."Warriors..come out and pla-ay.."So is Walt about 6'5" by now with full facial hair?
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the island healed him (on-island), but, at least personally, i never took that as a permanent healing, but rather something that was a result of his symbiosis with the island. i was always of the opinion that if he left, the effects would not continue. much like rose, who didn't want to leave the island due to her cancer remission.
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That's the real question here...
Can't have enough Sun in ANY episode. Yum... -
Well and you also have to remember that tonights episode covers a good amount of time. At least enough time to visit some of the OC 6 individually and then be visited by Ben and 2 other individuals that I won't mention for those who don't don't like spoilers. Falling from the well just broke his leg and he was walking on it. So we will probably see him start out on crutchs like when the blast door fell on his legs and by the time that he kills himself hes walking with a cast.
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I just don't see any support for your view. But we have seen multiple cases where Locke has been healed. Richard pretty much said the same thing to him when he got shot in the leg. "Let the island do the rest." It didn't simply 'magic' the bullet away, it helped him heal.
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Still old buddy.
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I haven't seen this addressed anywhere, but I can't quite wrap my mind around why the O6 need to go back to the island. I mean, I get the motivations of the O6 (for the most part--not sure I buy Jack wanting to go back just because his life sucks now--wasn't exactly great on the island), but have we established why Ben is trying to get them back? Because really, the only people at risk are Jin, Sawyer, two Freighties (whom they never trusted anyway), Juliet (who was an Other), Rose, Bernard, and... possibly a couple more redshirts? That's been my one issue with this season--I mean, I'm invested enough in the characters that I'm interested in seeing what happens to them, but do we have any idea why Ben is going to such trouble to get back when it's not even his people in danger?
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Jin ate Walts dog. It's obvious.
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Have established long running character via time travel and so on end up where they were emotionally when the show started. Then have them meet up with new character who had bit part earlier. Then have them ask questions of new character, who will answer vaguely... Until with a dramatic pause reveal something about what's to come that's DRAMATIC AND SHOCKING. Then have estblished character forget to ask about anything important that could actually make snese. Here are lines I expect to see fully after dramatic pauses for the next few episodes:
"Because he's not... The father"
"It's not where are we... It's... When are we"
"Your father? He's actually... Your son..."
"Michael?"
"You must find Alvar Hanso. He's in the year 1876 and he's at the bw.....ww.w..w...."
"Because... I'm the one who killed you!"
and the season finale will end on this dramatic pause as Ben says to an offscreen character who we thought dead...
"Now that you can see into the future... We're going to send you... Into the past!" -
Reading those lines in a David Caruso voice is highly entertaining.
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...they have to go back because they were there. In the past. They should have been jumping around with the others after the island moved, but they weren't there. But they were there in the Dharma past. So...course correction. Ms. Hawking and everyone else needs to get them back because they are supposed to be there. And they are supposed to be there in order to stop whatever nefarious shit is coming. (Daniel? Atomic bomb?)
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Wasn't he in cuffs? it mirrored Kate's arrival on the island originally.
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if they trimmed out the swelling horn section that ends every scene (even if it's hurley eating a bowl of cereal) and dramatic pauses and long, knowing stares and vague answers/revelations each episode would be 5 minutes long. all i know is they better end the thing in a way that blows our minds because every episode is like your girl giving you great oral for an hour and just when you are about to.......she stops, gets up and leaves, saying, see you next week.
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Lindelof wanted take a week off of work and watch WATCHMEN over and over and over again
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But how would Ben know that they were there in the past? And that seems like dicey motivation for going back--"We have to go back to the island because we're supposed to be there in the past."That said, being there to stop whatever badness is going to come their way makes sense. I just wonder how much of this Ben knows about. My biggest question is, right now, as of Ben getting his ass kicked at the marina, what is his motivation for getting everyone back?
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...was let her open her mouth. She sunk her own ship.
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Jack: Why not?
Kate: Jack, you know we have to meet our new unsolved mysteries per episode quota. -
Is anyone else worried we're not going to get any more story progression for the rest of the season? Everyone is excited that they made it back to the island so quickly and I do think that is awesome but with the number of episode remaining this season and the way Lost has done in the past I can totally see not getting back to Jack and the rest of the O-6 until the season finale. This is ep. 7 so we have 10 eps. left, I have a bad feeling it will go down like this:
One ep telling us why Sun got on the plane
An ep telling why Kate got on the plabe and what she did with Aaron
An episode showing what loose ends Ben was tieing up
An ep telling why Hurley got on the plane
An ep showing how Sayid got in that woman's custody
An ep filling us in on the other passenger
2 ep centering around Faraday, Juliet, Sawyer and Jin
That is 8 of 10 remaining episodes and we haven't moved past them getting back to the island. I really hope the story progression continues at the pace it's been at much like Jack, I don't have a lot of faith.
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maybe i'm in the minority, shellfishh, i dunno what do you guys think (or i guess did you think prior to it being spoiled by the preview)? is locke's magical healing legs tied to the island, meaning did you think he would be paralyzed if he got off? or did you always think he was permanently healed?
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who doesn't love a good free bj on a schedule- but LOST better start putting out. i'm starting to hurt.
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Because Ben first met them on the island as a child. He has a schoolboy crush on Juliet because he was a schoolboy when he met her.
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Well not all of them are going back willingly obviously. Sun wants to find her husband. Hurley and probably Kate are being coaxed by the island by haunting visions. Sayid is being taken against his will. Jack is pretty much the only one who actually seems to want to go back so he's the only one really "motivated." His motivation is that he has a savior complex and drug and alcohol problem to boot.
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ben just wants to get back for himself, but knows the island doesn't want him back after turning FDW. he's just trying to ride the O6's coattails
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Those stories will most likely be told in flashbacks while the on-island plot moves along. They may also combine the O6 stories in 1 or more episodes as they have done in the past.
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I wonder what ultimatium kate will give jack while giving sawyer a hand job.
*Don't ask me what I'm doing, Jack* -
this show has taken four years to get everyone back to where they were four years ago, with the exception of they're traveling in time so they can fix all the shit they broke at the begining that would never make sense without time travel anyway. I guarantee any show you see that introduces time travel a few years into it is doing so because it's the only way to fix all the shit that's come before.
And this show is not like getting a great bj that suddenly ends anymore. It's like a horrible, dry handjob through your boxers in which you try to conjure up something to get off to, but your mind keep's flashing to Bobby Jindal's face, and just before the climax you need is about to happen, you get punched in the balls. -
is that if you take the video clips above, add the 20 minutes of commercials in the broadcast tonight, and you'll have most of the show already. At least that's how it seems when I watch it.
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Why are you here?
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OMG I have died and gone to heaven!
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I don't think they've ever implied that the restorative power of the Island isn't permanent and only operates within the islands sphere. Whether it was the impact, or the Islands 'magical' powers John Locke was (albeit with a broken leg) able to walk when he left the Island.
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and then i watch the episode, and every trumpet squee dramatic pause bombshell was already here. and everything else was just filler. maybe someone could do an edit of each week's episode down to the only things that matter.
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I've seen Palin speak in person with no speech in front of her, no teleprompter, nothing. She was very intelligent and articulate. The Karie Couric interview was something like 90 minutes in which Couric refused to talk politics or platforms, but kept asking questions like, "what is on your reading stand right now?" trying to find anything to use against her. Meanwhile, Obama makes statements like there are 57 states and the media covers it up.The truth is that anyone with a microphone in their face 14 hours a day will make a few dumb statements. However, the media did really go out of their way to target Palin, and use kid-gloves in their treatment of Obama. The way the media handled the campaign was pretty reprehensible.
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...seemed to imply that Walt was a kid with supernatural powers. Ben explained that Jacob WANTED Walt to be on the island. It would be strange if they don't address this. Me? I'm hoping that Walt was either invited to come back...or stowed away in the back. BTW, you should check out some of those mobisodes again...not to mention Damon Lindelof's Season 4 DVD easter egg about "instant reincarnation" in regard to Jack's dad. Interesting stuff.
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He would never have been the nominee without the aid of Oprah and a few media execs in San Francisco. Obama's solution for everything is simply a well prepared speech written by David Axelrod...and adoration by a mindless set of worshippers in the media. But isn't this supposed to be about LOST? Back on topic...
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this fucking pointless palin talk is worse than the baleback fuckers
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I don't think you know what the word "fraud" actually means.
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And this is different from every other politician....how?
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Actually, I think that Obama is a "fraud" because he is not what the media makes him out to be. I have spoken with people that know him...and they said that he is nice guy...very sincere...but a little "clueless." I have a gut feeling that he knows that this job is too big for him. Yet the media continues its adoration and worship. Yahoo's frontpage editors have it bad. They suck his cock on an almost daily basis. I have a feeling that they will literally write a headline about how Obama's poop just doesn't really stink. Of course, I didn't think very highly of Palin either. She was almost as inexperienced in national politics and executive experience as Barack. Now, back to LOST...
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Or will he be a spirit roaming around the island?
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I think one of the fundamental differences between Palin and Obama is how they rallied people. Obama used a rhetoric of hope. Palin used a rhetoric of fear.
I absolutely couldn't stand how the republicans handled this past election. It wasn't so much of "Support me because I'll fix us" but more of "Support me because you should be afraid of everyone else." Palin pandered to the racists and less educated in America because they'll believe everything they here without factchecking it. -
This just in. Election is over. Palin lost....well, McCain did, but you get the gist. Time to get on fixing the mess all of us were left.
...and time to watch LOST. -
...but upon closer inspection, Obama only used "hope" in the headlines of his speeches. The rest was the same tired "fear tactics" that Democrats have accused Bush of for the past eight years. The only difference is that Bush used those tactics in regard to terrorism while Obama used those tactics in regard to the economy. Interestingly, an honest "fact check" reveals just WHICH members of Congress actually voted for the measures that caused all of this economic mess to begin with. Barney Frank (the pedophile Congressman from Massachusetts) instigated this mess...with the full support of Mr. Obama. Of course, I agree with most of what you said about Governor Palin too. I'm hoping for a "dark horse" candidate to come out in 2012 who actually knows which way is up.
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My cousin has a letter of rec from him while he was at the University of Chicago. While people may be acquaintances with him, there is really no bond greater forged between a student and his teacher. From everything I have heard about him, even before he made any decision to run for the highest office in the country, he is by no means "clueless".
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Did you remember seeing his grandfather in the last episode? Weird. Even more interesting is the fact that Jack's dad talking about dear old "granddad" Shepherd in one of the mobisodes. Anyone think that he will play a role in the mythology of the show? Was he a part of DHARMA...the island...etc? I am excited about tonight's episode!
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My friend is an Illinois state legislator...and a Democrat. He only has nice things to say about Mr. Obama as a person...but he used the word "clueless" in regard to his knowledge of government, public policy/administration and as a legislator. However, he said that Obama's greatest strength is his ability to appeal to the media and his ability to give inspirational speeches. Of course, I don't know Obama. I just don't think that he is very clear (purposely so) in regard to his "plans" for this nation, and of those things that I do know, I disagree with much of them. How did this talkback turn to politics? Let's get back to topic.
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Your tone has been very civil, so don't think this is an attack, but an honest question. By those definitions, "Obama's greatest strength is his ability to appeal to the media and his ability to give inspirational speeches", would you call Reagan a fraud as well?
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I just skipped the last 80 posts to say - good to see you here. I wanted to give you a hard time about your Badgers losing last Sunday! Take care dude.
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Initiate Lostgasms.
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There is some similarity between Reagan and Obama in regard to their ability to communicate. However, I don't think that the media actually warmed up to Reagan as much as they do with Obama. In fact, the media was particularly hard on Reagan when he ran against Jimmy Carter. It wasn't until the polls showed Reagan's favorability was so high that the media began to slowly embrace him. Contrast that with Obama, who wasn't liked UNTIL he was almost "pushed" into the forefront by members of the media (beginning with Oprah's $10 Million rally and media blitz for him when he was well behind in the polls to Hillary). I'm not saying that Obama will not do a good job. In fact, I am HOPING that he will do well. I just think that Obama's inexperience is beginning to show...and his lack of understanding in regard to public policy and administration is slowly beginning to surface. Obama has already "put off" some of his tax plan (especially his promise to repeal the Bush tax cuts or raise taxes to the wealthy and small businesses -- because his new advisors have warned him about the consequences at this volatile time). I am pulling for him, though. That doesn't mean that I will vote for him in 2012, but I love my country too much to want anything bad to happen.
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i want lost NOW NOW NOW
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getting gassed. Though, doesn't Hurley know?
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Sounds good. Nice to hear something thought out and that you're not one of those people hoping that Obama and the country fail just to make a point.
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Sounds good. Nice to hear something thought out and that you're not one of those people hoping that Obama and the country fail just to make a point.
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Last year, I received a lot of critism during the last election...mostly because there wasn't any room for a differing opinion on this website. It was very disappointing...especially when people accused me of being white...or a "sellout." Back to LOST...I am more worried about this episode than any other. This season has been great (phenomenal, actually). There is so much riding on this show! I am disappointed that this show is going up against two other ratings juggernauts (American Idol and Criminal Minds). I really wish that they would show it on Thursday...since it seems to be so pivotal to the show's mythology. Must...have...faith...in...the...show's...writers.
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Neither Obama nor Palin are clueless idiots. I'm saying the media however went out of their way to assassinate one, and praise the other.You give me a third-hand anecdote that she didn't know what to say when put on the spot. That may be true, or may not. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt that she was caught flat-footed. It happens. It happens to Obama as well. Look up clips of him speaking without a prepared speech or teleprompter and watch him stumble all over himself. Watch Letterman count how often he says "uhh.." in a two-minute clip. Watch him make statements such as "I've been to all 57 states".Laura Bush came to defend Michelle Obama for her statement that she had never felt proud to be an American before, saying that when the press is always in your face, they will eventually catch you saying something stupid, or something out of context. It happens to everyone.Palin is crucified for a couple of statements, and yet most who have seen her talk in person praise her for being a very intelligent speaker. I watched both the RNC and DNC, and her speech at the RNC was pretty good. I saw her speak live here in Omaha. She is a little too fundie for my taste, but she isn't the idiot the media portrayed her to be.For instance, the Alaska line that everyone blames her for, she didn't say. Tina Fey did. But, why should facts matter?
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I don't care about the timeslot. I record the show on my DVR, and ABC isn't going to cancel a major cash-cow when they're only got so many more episodes left.
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the talkback all day. Lost is back in full force.
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If Locke isn't eaten by a giant squid in this episode, then I'm not watching anymore!
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Sounds good. Nice to hear something thought out and that you're not one of those people hoping that Obama and the country fail just to make a point.
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"at some point, the writers knew they were going to run out of backstory for each character. "-- That's not an excuse. That explanation doesn't make the show one bit better; it just states an unfortunate reality: the WRITERS stopped coming up with creative ideas.
"at this point, we know our lostaways pretty well. we understand their demons, their motivations. if you need weekly reminders of that, then maybe you haven't been playing close enough attention."--- I'm sorry, but that explanation is total bullshit. So for season 4, we don't need to delve into character motivation or building the characters? That's horseshit. The flashbacks were this series medium for constructing character, and they ditched it. Quit trying to write off my complaint as "you haven't been paying attention"-- as if you had any clue as to how much attention I put into the show. My complaint is that this show is going through the motions trying to hit plot points instead of building interesting character development. This season is like one of the Star Wars prequels... banking on the idea that people are so obsessed with knowing the plot points that they won't see through the paper-thin character motivations. -
Alias had a format and it was a ratings success. Fans dug it. The network demanded they drop the format and over-arching plot. They had a season with badguys of the week, no cliff-hangers, and they even aired episodes out of order since continuity didn't matter, and ratings plummeted.I'm not sure why people insist you need to change something that works, but critics have been demanding they drop flashbacks since season 2. Arguably, some of the best moments in the show happened in flashbacks.
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Sounds good. Nice to hear something thought out and that you're not one of those people hoping that Obama and the country fail just to make a point.
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repeats of a previous comment. Firefox is having indigestion for some reason.
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"There's a war coming, John." I thought there was a typo or something and the show's name was wrong.
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Feb 25, 2009 5:46:35 PM CST
Well, it's obvious that whoever she is, she's got Sayid
by coughlins laws
in custody. Why would Jack want to ask that in front of him?
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Or do the clips seem to have Locke and Company in Tunesia?
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and show all of his time travel adventures. Being chased by dinosaurs, eating babies, all that good stuff.
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Laying on his back and POOM His eyes open to find himself on the island. In the year of the dog.
All dogs rule
LOST spinoff. Hurley and Vincent share an apartment. Hijinks ensue.
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Sawyer, Hurley and Vincent. THAT I would want to see. Kinda like 3 1/2 men except funny. 2 Men and a Pooch.
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Zombie Danielle can be the kooky neighbor.
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That's all I got
Love you gals!
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The season is divided into three "arcs"... episodes 1-7, episodes 8-13, and episodes 14-17 will end it... So i imagine 1-7 was them getting back, 8-13 will deal with the dharma time period, and by 14 we'll be on whatever comes next. More timeskipping, I can only hope. This season rules television. Once Bstar is over, I won't have anything to watch but anime @_@ lolz
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In a teddy. ABC - lets get this greenlit!
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strange and horny landlords.
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With Sawyer Hurley and Vincent - and Vincent (who is actually the female dog Madison) has to act gay to be allowed to live with the two dudes.
It's GOLDEN I tell you!
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I've seen Sarah Palin speak in person too. It was very much like archival footage of fascist rallies. All bogus imagry, buzz words, rallying points, and zero actual content.
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i just personally think you're way off base saying that the writers aren't being creative because they cut back on flashbacks. IMO, the flashforwards have been one of the more creative things they have done. they enabled them to tell an even more complex, non-linear story. that takes a hell of a lot more skill than just constantly showing backstory. i did and do enjoy the flashbacks, they are a necessary and very enjoyable feature of the previous seasons. i just think that at this point, those of us who have been following the show closely (you included, i didn't intend to question your dedication personally) really understand who these characters are at this point. we've seen a significant portion of each of our main character's lives (except maybe ben- we can always use more linus revelations). i think that character growth and development can be done in the *present* as well. it doesn't have to necessarily always be looking backward. and if you think the motivations for going back are thin (kate running away from cannibalism cops, sayid being extradited by interpol to guam, jack needing island peyote to support his drug habit, hurley being a loyal friend, sun wanting to fuck her husband again), trust that the writers will be filling in the gaps with O6 flashbacks in the coming episodes.
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Obama couldn't have won without Oprah and Yahoo...or 65 million votes of America citizens.
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for tonight, isnt the rumo that tonights ep is one of the best of the season, if the preview was any indication then I say yes it will be.
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That's what keeps the long LOST TB's civil! Avoid politics!
I too am curious if Locke is a ghost or what on the island. What does that make Jack's dad? Why does Dr. Shepard Sr. still show up back in LA after Jack returns? -
more and more democratic politicians are coming out and saying obama just doesn't get it.
that he thinks making purdy speaches is gonna make the bad go away
that he doesn't really understand the political process.
It took a lot longer for the republicans to start turning on bush -
Show up if you have the stones for it, man! Now go read the posts way above - March 11 we're apparently getting a week off of new LOST episodes - as I mentioned in the TB a few weeks ago. I'd read we were going to get a break or two during this season so that the Season finale would run smack dab in the middle of sweeps in May. My suggestion of such led you to call me an "idiotic F***in' troll." Now it turns out I was right and you were wrong, SmartGuy. If you were such a tough guy you could come back and admit you were an A-hole, now wouldn't you? I apologize for my bad behavior in this post if it offends anyone. Other than you, Rizzo!
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watching her is very unpleasant
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The recap episode with the "pop up video" text indicated that ben's "tying up loose ends" was indeed a reference to his promise to mr. whitmore (which is kinduva decent-sized reveal for text!)
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yea, i just noticed that too, and that ben is calling jack from a boat dock.
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Spare us the home psychologist routine, it is trite and fails making you a laughing stock. Locke has been associated with young males and drugs frequently, Charlie in the woods with heroin, the cop honey pot and weed, and Boone and some home brewed hallucinogen. The honey pot episode was the real give away as to Lockes sexuality.But then I forgot about your endless fanboy man crush handjob posts fawning and drooling about how LOST is the best show since,I wouldn't even know what your pea brained fanboy mind associates with "quality" tv. Factually the LOST writers throw shit out each season, just like HEROES, just to see what sticks. They start to explore story lines, and when they can not see a satisfying conclusion they kill characters. Lots of characters. They conveniently forget and gloss over plot directions from previous seasons. And now they are trying to play catch up.
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Those Dems are probably up for re-election. Greenspan, and before Greenspan Reaganomics, fucked up the economy. Bushco put that into overdrive. barky beholden to the same corporate interests offers failed attempts to re-inflate the credit system. same shit different asshole. But he has been there not that long. While his plans are doomed to failure, at least he is offering something. With any luck in two years he will go as radical as will be needed. Socialism baby, socialism. Single payer health care, nationalized banks and auto industry, legalization of drugs, gambling, and prostitution with the appropriate taxation.
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I mean, to a T!!! That's how every episode seems to end and begin, with something cryptic, dramatic enough to pull you in (when it was fresh, at least) but cryptic enough to not explain anything at all.
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Non linear storytelling, non linear video games, non linear literature with the beat cut-up technique. I don't know about you, but if I had a non linear work day, I would freak the fuck out. How does non linear apply to life?
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Feb 25, 2009 7:46:04 PM CST
enderandrew: here's the Couric/Palin transcript ~ read and weep
by flip63hole
"refused to talk politics or platforms"? Start with question #1 and read on from there. Enjoy... http://tv.spreadit.org/sarah-palin-katie-couric-interviewpalin-couric-interview-transcript/
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There does not seem to be evidence that the island totally cures people. Locke did lose the use of his legs during Boones death. And Ben did develop a tumor while on the island. If we use the women dying during childbirth on the island but safely having children away from the island as somewhat of a base, we can assume that disease cured on the island would return when off the island.
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jacks dad and Charlie all reappeared, but damn near everyone else killed including others ( who must be the most beloved of island denizens) stay dead. Isn't that a glaring incongruity?
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If you go to epguides.com, only 14 eps are listed for this season. I'm guessing that's just because they don't know the rest of the episode titles? Because I know there are supposed to be 16 episodes...at least that's what I thought.
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LOST is nothing like Heroes. Unlike Heroes, LOST has a very specific story to tell. How can they throw anything out to see what sticks when they're already writing the finale (episode 17) and we're on episode 7? They're not playing catch up and they're not rushing the story. They're finally TELLING the story they've been wanting to tell. If you equate forward momentum with lack of quality, then well you should be watching Heroes.
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Feb 25, 2009 7:53:49 PM CST
Sick Fixx, non-linear a fallacy, more like disjointed.
by evilwizardglick
The writing isn't nonlinear, it is just disjointed. Much like a good mutli-person novel. You will follow a character so far, then follow a new character only to return to the original character. Nothing amazing in the LOST approach.Boomtown originally used the multi character view of a situation well before LOST did.
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"Robinson's Lost deal calls for her to start off as a recurring player with an option to become a series regular in season 6 (a.k.a. the farewell season)."
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also consider that there are only so many minutes left of Lost, and the writers/producers might have felt that it was time to stop focusing on the past through flashbacks and start doing it in island time. Flashbacks give us an important understanding of the characters, but at some point it's time to get the Dharma bus moving forward.
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IN 5 MINUTES WOOOOOHOOOO!!!!!!!
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LOST continually changes it's plot from season to season. It's pretty clear that the direction from season one is very different from where we are at today. What happened to the baby vaccine? And how that related to Rousseaus dead companions? This seasons Jin observance no way equates with what she originally described. Or the addition of the tail section people only to be killed off. Or the ever devolving once omnipotent others. Or even the large obviously mind created polar bear made by Walt. I even think Vincent the dog was originally plotted by be a Walt mind construct. Walt was supposed to be the island savior. Now that duty was rapidly written as Lockes.
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That show is missed... at least by me.
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Bring on the best show on TV!
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From the plane. thought there was something up about him.
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ok so they crashed, then?
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And probably ended up in a different time period than Jack and the others.
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Glad Locke is back though. Yea I guess the plane did crash/land on the island. Crazy.
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I can't imagine the show without Locke on it for the duration.
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Locke's spooky.
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...with the hood, got some Obi-Wan vibe going.
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Are you listening, BBC?
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"I remember dying" and "say hello to my son"
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Sweet. I fucking LOVE this show. So, who do you think is the good (or better) guy? Widmore or Linus?
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HOLY SHIT WIDMORE IS A GOOD GUY DGJKNSDKLZGNDGHKSGNJHDgfhxfgjdfgjvbjm
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Ben wanted everyone back on the Island. Widmore wanted everyone back on the Island. I think i'm more confused than ever.
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Never have I seen a show with SO many great characters. This may be one of the great character driven shows of all time. When you watch a great "Ben" episode or "Des" episode, you think, "Oh man, this guy is the BEST character on this show" (think "Constant") Then along comes another "Locketastic" episode that makes you remember WHY this show was so good all those years ago!
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suicide or Ben or Charles kill him...
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Adam and Eve, Black Rock ship, the Swan hatch, Rousseau originally saying they were researching time, Hurley picking up old radio signals, Walt appearing in places he shouldn't, the flash of light. All of these things happened in the first 2 seasons, they just didn't want to say "time travel" yet. But from the very first shot of Jack waking up unhurt in the jungle, this shit has been a time travel show through and through.
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Locke knew he was going to come back to life?
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That transcript only covers the aired portion, which is 10 minutes of a 90 minute interview. Palin said for the majority of the interview, Couric refused to talk politics and attempted to fluster Palin with pointless questions, and then started asking questions about policies towards the end to show her flustered at the end of a 90 minute interview.Palin is inexpienced when it comes to foreign relations because it wasn't her job before. Obama was heading up a war committee and refused to meet with relevant foreign leaders, and he refused to meet with Patreus who was in charge of Iraq's war effort. That was his job. Palin has an excuse for not focusing on foreign relations as a governor. What is Obama's excuse? The media didn't attack Obama for his lack of experience in foreign arenas. You'll note in the aired transcript, Couric attacks Palin for the idea of surging troops in Afghanistan, when that has been Obama's big platform. Secretary Gates has called that idea foolish.It is a foolish idea when Palin says it, and it is a foolish idea when Obama says it. Large troop surges have NEVER worked in Afghanistan. Just ask Russia.
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the Lost version of Tunisia is fucking ridiculous. And yeah, I know Lindelof chose it cause that's where Tatooine is.
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WALT!
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maybe ben and widmore are BOTH good guys? i think ben just knows a lot more, for example I think he has either been to the future or knows the future. maybe widmore, thinking he has been doing good all these years, has actually been impeeding ben from doing what he knows HAS to be done. im baked as shit sorry if that didnt come out well.
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because of the leg, or because he can't walk?
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i am placing my bets now...
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Don't let 5 minutes of conversation fool you. His goons murdered a 16 year old girl. He will do anything and everything to get back to the island.
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i think it was more than just coincedence that abaddon walked away to give john and locke 'privacy'...like a guy can't participate in his past because it didn't happen that way...right? plus they might explode if they touched...lol
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brought him the wheelchair, so yeah, he can walk kinda.
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i meant to give Michael and locke privacy. man, i need to slow down
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right now??" "WHOA, dude!" hahahhahahahahaha great stuff! i love Hurley!
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Fat ass cracks me up every week.
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He's been off tv too long.
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Widmore has to be bad.
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That chick can be hit or miss. Hit this week.
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I don't remember.
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Whoa!
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Time travel messes with you....that was Ben what killed him im sure.
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You were supposed to be future Walt!
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After Locke was paralyzed.
And holy shit, betcha Ben killed Abaddon. -
Ok so maybe THIS is the best episode of the season. It's getting hard to keep track.
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Wonder who shot him. Sayid on a mission from Ben? Ben himself? Someone else?
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was that Ben taking out Matthew? Guess they need him on Fringe full-time so bye-bye Lost.
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Locketastic
When Locke pulled down the black hood to reveal himself, I thought he was Alec fucking Guiness! -
Abbadon! We knew you so little, and yet you were so intriguing! I'm extremely disappointing they capped him. And I'm guessing Ben did it. One more notch on Ben's bad side list. Fucker. Lance Reddick is such a badass, and I really wish we could have learned more about his character on here. He explains he gets people where they are going, but HOW does he know! Ahhh.
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I think....could still be that Widmore is bad but his people seem nice....maybe he just went a little overkill and didnt check his resources that well to see the mercenary team he was hiring was really that ruthless.
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It seems like everyones significant other either dies or leaves. Sayid, Locke, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Michael, and a couple of them have lost numerous people. If Penny dies, I swear to God.
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Abbadon's alright
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..................................lol.
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Heh.
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Though I honestly thought it was pretty crazy that Reddick was doing Fringe full time and this show.
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Jack's beard is just starting so this is obviously at least a week before him and Kate meet near the airport. (S3 Finale)
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...Abaddon caught a bad one!:(
Another brotha lost in the time travel struggle! And i agree with Dogmatic, i was starting to like him! -
Feb 25, 2009 8:49:04 PM CST
DONT DO IT John!!!! Oh wait...he does...and resurrects..right
by dogmatic
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Geez I am so confused.......
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because he's going it out of despair or because he thinks it's a plan?And also notice that Ben lied about knowing that Locke committed suicide. Bitch just can't help lying.
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He moved the damn island to keep widmore away. for now, I still think ben has the island's best interest at heart.
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say that "Jeremy Bentham" visited him?
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cuz he saw a new plan in Jin's ring!
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This obviously changes everything for ben. The fact Jin is alive makes his plan easier somehow.
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For both reasons. And someone else is killing him for those reasons as well.
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Saw that coming!
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Sorry for the lame-ass caps, but damn!
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YES!!! Locke can finally be pissed at Ben cuz now he knows Ben wanted him dead! But Ben didnt COUNT on Locke coming back! THe island wont LET him die! Oh man....Ben is gonna face Locke's wrath MWA-hahahhahahha!!!! But wait does this mean Widmore is good or bad?? Still confused....
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No, don't kill yourself. Let ME do it, John.
Could Ben have been THAT worried that Locke would keep Sun from coming? Or was it something else Locke said? -
...knows Eloise hawking, he must know Widmore, and Widmore is the (Ben's) enemy...HELLO!!!
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Best episode ever.
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TEAM WIDMORRRRRRE. fuck ben.. Christian said it was John that was supposed to move the island, and that Ben was wrong. All of Ben's self righteous bullshit about moving the island to save John was just that - bullshit
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best epi of the season...
oh, yeah, and im REALLY confused! -
I mean, he could have just let Locke kill himself right? or is there some metaphysical difference between Locke taking his own life and being taken unjustly...
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I could have sworn Walt told Hurley that Locke never visited him. He was upset about it too. Don't know why he lied.
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Is kinda getting it's ass kicked by LOST right now. Someone had to say it. Either way, remember these times. Sci-fi hasn't been this great on TV since The Twilight Zone ruled so many years ago.
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Was the whole reason Ben wanted to bring Locke back because he was the proxy for Jack's dad, and he actually did not know the island would resurrect him? Ben had to have known that.
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We still have to find out what happened between Ben, Widmore and Ben (and Jacob?) that lead to Widmore being exiled, but as it looks, Widmore is the good guy, Ben is bad. Sooo that probably means we still don't know anything.
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everyone just has their own motives.
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Like him not being pure or something if he takes his own life? hmmm....
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Remember when he shot him and left him w/ those skelotons in that hole?
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without Locke b/c Ben is an evil genius but a genius who realized with the info that Jin is alive and his ring as proof he could for sure get Sun to go along and knew Jack was edging that way and would for sure get on board with Locke's "suicide". Ben is a genius....a lying dirty bastard genius....who WASNT genius enough to know that Locke would live on to come back and kick his ass!!!
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I'd put my money on that - the Losties are just pawns in a huge game that is hundreds of years old
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Ben will SAY he knew John would live. Will it be the truth?
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yes, it's bad ju ju if you take your own life. according to the timeline, locke had to die, at that time. but for some reason, ben did the deed instead of john doing it himself. i don't think ben enjoyed it, he kind of changed the past without changing it....?
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You best be prepared.
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Locke mentioned that Jin was alive. That changed everything for ben and he realized he had to kill him. Getting the ring gets him Sun.
But now I'm definitely thinking that Ben has only his interest at heart, not the island's. How can this show fuck me more in the head with each new episode? -
...resurrected Locke. Did Ben expect that part?
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HELL YES.
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it all changed when Jin was revealed to be alive....
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Rank up there in the Lost pantheon with The Constant and Walkabout.
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Glad to have the evil SOB back at full strength
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He may think his motives are just, but really he's just a thug.
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He found him right away!
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to make locke appear dead. and the butcher lady would be reapplying the venom to keep him looking dead, to keep him safe for the trip back and lure the others back- at which point he'd awaken....but the fact that he was really killed and ressurected? i'm sorry, i guess i'm a man of science, not a man of faith...
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After that abortion of an episode this past Friday (one of the final five of the goddamn series), Lost comes out this week and delivers a KO.
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Have you ever witnessed a show with so many valuable characters, plotlines, and mysteries? It's enough to make your head explode. You could fill encylopedias with Lost knowledge. Man oh man, I never want this show to end.
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Does that mean the island didn't need him to come back?
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Why do they have to go to the island? That's what I want to know. Why? Remember, Ben had no idea about anyone on Oceanic when they crashed. So why do they have to go back? Iw ish someone could answer that,
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who would win????
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or is he just like every other dead person on the island? Did anybody touch locke, to see if he's real? Would that even matter? This is the most frustrating lost mystery ever.
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I thought that Ben was afraid of what Widmore might've told him about Eloise Hawking and other stuff, so he killed him because he couldn't take the chance of Locke knowing wtf is happening...or not! Thia ia LOST!
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What surprised Ben about Jin being alive? Jus the ring to get sun? Killer episode.
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Feb 25, 2009 9:12:17 PM CST
Dear god i was joking in my post about how to write this show
by drturing
But seriously, I could be writing for this show.
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...is what I meant above!
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Who the war is against, i'm not sure. Wasn't it Widmore who said a war was coming? If so, that'd have to be a war against Ben. But if Ben's people would be Jack, Kate, Hurley etc., who would Widmore's (and Locke's) people be? I'm confused.
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Babylon 5. Not near the production quality and done on a shoe string budget, but as good or even better planned series long story arc. There were no 'off' episodes, they all tied in eventually, every single episode. But yea, this one rock! Ben is my favorite evil bastard!
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I don't think Whidmore gave a crap if anyone else got back, he thinks Locke is his ticket back. I felt so bad for Locke, it would have been a sad ending for that character....if he was dead dead. like really dead. Ahhhh?!?!?!
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Is he really alive then? resurrected???
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Little thing Whidmore said about Locke's parents having a sense of humor about his name..might be kind of subtle nod at us tearing apart the name of every character. These writers are awesome.
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it will tie your mind in knots. it's a true universe all its own.the one thing i want to know more about: DHARMA...i want to know everything they were doing..not just what is assumed.
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This isn't the first time its been said, but its the first time I've said it.... I now no longer have ANY idea where this is going. Before I had ideas, before I had theories... but now.... I'm totally LOST. I don't know who to trust- Ben or Widmore... I don't know where its going, when everyone is back on the Island already. All I know is there's a war coming. But you'd think the war was Season 4. Fuck, this is the best show on tv. And man, what an *emotional* episode. I just hope Walt and Michael still get their happy ending on Ghost Island. I hope this wasn't the writers' attempt at writing Walt off the show.
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But, it goes to prove my point. Locke cannot be the leader because he cannot lead. He is manipulated all the time, he never knows who to believe and therefore he doubts all and believes in all at the same time.
Locke being a leader is a long con...the shiny object the magician holds up to distract you from what's important.
And if there was ever any doubt about Ben being good or evil, please put that to rest. That does not mean Widmore is good, though. I've said it for awhile, there's more than good and evil at play here...more than 2 parties at play.
But I guess we'll see. -
...Walt has magic powers dude...always has...
He just knew. So there. Go pick on Heroes. -
What station are they looking at Dharma stuff in? I am sold on Ben being an Evil maniacal weasel, but Whidmore...I don't know man...
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Predicted Locke surrounded by people, in a suit, all resurrected. Whack yo!
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If the story was told in a linear fashion, we'd see Locke get killed by Ben and have no clue what was going to happen next. Instead we see his murder after we already know he's alive again. And most of season 4 was wasted on the non-drama of finding out how the O6 got off the island. Hopefully from here on out they'll stick to linear storytelling.
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Gotta be. After all that happened, Jack has to be far from skeptical about his destiny, and that there's such a thing as fate. And once he sees Locke, he's gonna believe for sure and he will be the leader. Once and for all, he will lead everyone against Widmore/Ben or both.
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"also consider that there are only so many minutes left of Lost, and the writers/producers might have felt that it was time to stop focusing on the past through flashbacks and start doing it in island time. "
Then I criticise that decision; stupidly murdering one of the most important and engaging aspects of the show. -
Ok, there's Ben, Widmore, and the old lady (forget her name). She seems to be almost like a "neutral" party? Kind of managing the whole show?
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Manipulated so easily! Post-resurrection I expect him to be a badass from here on out.
Step one: Torture Ben for answers! -
Someone remind me if it's already come up
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redeemed this episode
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I didn't think he knew about her. I assumed Widmore told more than we saw on screen. Unless other LOST watchers remember him bring told about her in the past.
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Both want control of the island, both will kill to control the island. Neither one of them should be trusted. How many times does John Locke need to get fucked over before he gets that?
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Locke, Ben and the Guamies are on the island "present" time....while the Losties are on the island in the 1970's, correct?
Ok, why wouldnt Ben and ESPECIALLY Locke "white light" with the rest? Is it because Locke was dead, was not needed? Did Ben know that he would not "white light?" And more importantly, HOW will Ben and Locke EVER reconnect with the rest of the crew? arghh, too many questions....... -
Christian told Locke to find Eloise in LA.
So this may have been discussed before but Abbadon walked off when Walt showed up and the way he says Mr. Locke, are we sure he wasn't grown up Walt? -
Okay, Christian told him, guess I didn't remember. Thanks for the info. And I thought the same about Abbadon, that maybe he was Walt. this is LOST, we could still see him again.
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Maybe Ben knew that Locke wouldn't get them all back if he committed suicide, but rather someone else had to kill him? And that's why Ben killed him, rather than to let him hang? Or was it all about Jin and the ring?
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...Lost has always been about non-linear story-telling and has done amazing things within that narrative structure. That's why it's Lost.
If you want Linear story-telling, stop watching Lost and go catch an episode of Brothers and Sisters or whatever other stupid show you watch.
That being said, the producers of the show actually have hinted that perhaps the show may switch gears once again and go full linear...which would be just fine as long as it encourages the strength of the story.
Lost has always been a show on TV like none other. Just when you thought it was going to go one way, it went in a completely different direction...it changes...and it's faithful followers adapt as it continues to intrigue and entertain.
I'm usually good with my own theories and ideas...but for the first time since season 2 I have NO IDEA where the show is going from this point on...but I trust that it shall not falter. It was a great episode tonight, and I can't wait for next weeks. -
Maybe they'd go back to the Orchid? I doubt Locke will kill Ben because Ben is inevitably going to explain to Locke WHY he did what he did. Right around that time we'll know for sure whether or not Ben really is the bad guy. I think before the season is over we will know the answer to that.
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When he heard Jin was alive, something is up, you could see a revelation in his face, something important happened right then only shared by very clever acting chops. Good stuff!
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does that make him alive? Can crazy "dead" people on the island eat. Is locke alive or dead?
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covered this last week - the only good guy is Desmond.
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In Season 4, Ben does the seemingly selfless act of volunteering to move the Island- which exiles him for 3 years- so that Locke, the leader the Island wanted, can then go on to lead The Others. It seemed Ben was a good guy bc he only wanted what was in the Island's best interest, though he initially resisted by shooting Locke at the DHARMA death pit. So this season we think he's a good guy, helping the O6 get back to the Island and insisting that Locke go back as well, and we think its bc we know that once back on the Island, Locke will come back to life. But in tonight's episode, we see the once seemingly bad guy, Charles Widmore, tell Locke that he's special and is going to be needed on the Island (and if that's true, why didn't he tell the mercenaries to not attack John Locke? If its a recent revelation for him, what helped him see Locke was special for the Island?). Then we see BEN say pretty much the same thing- Locke is special, the Island needs him, etc etc... but in Ben's case, he could have been stalling for time to learn vital information. But what information could Ben need? If Widmore is still the bad guy Ben says he is, and Widdy wants to exploit the Island, what could killing Locke achieve? Afterall, Ben couldn't be lying about Widmore wanting the Island to protect himself, bc if that were the case, Ben never would have volunteered to move the Island. So I trust Ben when he says he's doing it all to protect the Island (I don't believe he gives a shit about those left behind). But that's why it makes it so confusing when he kills Locke. He couldn't have done it to keep his power as Island's leader, since that dream had long since passed, and he certainly didn't kill Locke out of anger or jealousy... I can only assume that involving Eloise Hawking was dangerous... Or perhaps Ben knew Locke had to die, but he wanted to know some information before hand? I don't know. Its just so damn confusing. Here are the facts we know: The Island wants Locke as a leader Ben knows the Island and Jacob do NOT want him to lead. Ben volunteers to move the Island to protect it- not to save himself. Both Widmore and Ben say Locke is special, but only Ben has personally tried to kill Locke twice. I just wish I had a handle on Ben's position, but I love that the writers have thrown a new wrench into the mix to keep us guessing until (I hope) the very end, when Ben either sacrifices himself to save the characters we love, or is revealed to the be the Big Bad and is killed by Jack or Locke.
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finding out Jin was alive and about the ring. That gave him leverage to get Sun back. BUT my take on it was that Ben didn't actually know the name Eloise Hawking until he heard it from Locke.
That's why Ben wanted him to stay alive (because he needed help to find out who the woman was) and that's why he killed Locke (once he got the name).And Locke is 'alive' on the island, as alive as anyone, remember how he eats the mango, as opposed to Christian who wouldn't (couldn't) help Locke in the well. -
Ben INTENTIONALLY did not operate the FDW properly, knowing that Locke was supposed to do it, but wanted a head start off the island before Locke would eventually have to fix it?
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They crashed on Hydra Island, which is adjacent to the main island. That office they were snooping around in was Ben's office at the Hydra station.
I forget in what episode we saw it first. It may have actually been in a deleted scene on the season 3 DVD. I remember a scene were Alex comes in and has an arguement with Ben. -
I've hated that guy from day one. Now you all know the truth. :) That really sucked. John wound up in the wheelchair again and everything. I just don't understand why everyone falls for Ben's shit. Even Jack keeps believing his lies. The only one who distrusted him from the beginning was Sawyer. Speaking of, next week's episode looks awesome from the preview.
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Given that the Hoffs/Drawler funeral home and Ben's van all had secret meetings, tried for awhile in vain to come up with something out of the letters for Locke's hotel, the WESTeRFIELd HOTeL. All letters were lit up except the lowercase ones, which were darkened. There's an odd site at http://rfiel.com, but if it means anything I know not what.
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Last week it looked like Des saying that Hawking was Faraday's mother also was a shock to Ben. So he must not know much about her, which is interesting since he seemed to know everything else.
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We're DEFINITELY going to get more of super-pilot Frank Lapidus!
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When the Sheriff was questioning Jack and Tom about what Juliett had done in regards to Ben's surgery and the death of Pickett. It's her desk, as far as we know. And don't forget, she's one of the Others who got 'sploded when they tried to take pregnant women in the S3 finale.
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"Why can't I?" Oh man, that's some great writing.
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These last two eps have the show back to being up there with Season One quality. I love the fact that everything, including the Whitmore as possible Good Guy reveal, was just turned upside down. Evangeline Lilly also looked particularly yummy tonight.
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I guess that's what happens when you work on another network's show. FUCK.
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I enjoy liking Ben. I hope Ben knew he had to kill Locke, but didn't know Locke would resurrect. I believe Ben when he says "I'm going to miss you John. I really am."
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To me Ben seems to react to John knowing about Hawking...obviously I don't know why that reaction caused him to kill Locke. He did react to the news of Jin being alive but to me it seemed like Ben just wanted to use Sun to facilitate getting everyone back.
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The only problem I had with Widmore's wink to the audience about Locke's name is that he sent the boat with Minkowski and Farraday and Lewis on it. Does that mean that those are all code names now and not their real names? Especially since we know that "Eloise Hawking"'s son has a different last name, "Daniel Farraday".
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Ben believes it, Richard Alpert believes it, Locke believes it, Hawking believes it, and Abbadon believes it too. Is everyone believing a lie, or is the world really at stake?
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Remember in season 3 when Juliet told them they were building a runway? Doc Jensen suggested that the reason they were building the runway is because someone knew it would be needed for this plane to land there. Initially I thought that was sort of a dopey theory, being from the school of "not everyone is someone in the future, not every thing that happens will mean something later" but the fact that they seemed to land on Hydra Island and the fact that it looked like the plane was near a runway makes me think there's something to that. I guess it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme except to maybe prove that the writers did have a plan
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That's some DAMN good acting by Terry O'Quinn when he's reminiscing about Helen. Look at all the emotions that pour over his face- the memory of Helen, the attempt to seem "cool" and fine with it all in the face of another attractive woman, the remembrance of how it all fell apart- This show is awesome. Another wonderful acting moment- Locke and Jack. Just look at Jack's face when Locke tells him he's met his father. Look at the skepticism and belief, and the attempt to hide the truth with anger in Jack's face. Excellent.
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*Those drawings pulled out of the locked filing cab were copies of Faraday's Journal sketches and the map he had to the Tempest.
*The Sawed off shotgun looks to be the same same Ben pulled out of the piano bench and later was taken by
LockeLapidus and Sun went for the 815 camp...*The reason Ben is spooky on the Jin reveal..I think he remembers and puts together that there was a Korean dude in the DI ..who tried to kill him as a boy...and couldn't. Memories (the variable) from the past traveling the super-time highway don't arrive in the present/future until...well
*You can change the past..you can change the future..Dr. Changiwax said their goal (the DI) was to control time..these folks be lying.. all of them lying.."WIDMORE: That island is mine..it will be again.."
This show is superb. -
like....the Illyana said that there were 3 boats but the pilot left with a woman in one of the boats? To go where? who was woman with Lapidus?
...Walt said he had dreams of Locke standing on beacj on suit people trying to hurt him. Does this mean that 316 Losties are gonna go have there own kinda witch trial for Locke trying get answers out of him?
I now think its was 316 Losties that were shooting at the LeftBehinders a few wks ago, right????
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...would that be the handywork of Ben again? But he might have killed off Penelope Widmore also after arriving all bloody and cut up before they left to return to the island. If at the end of the series his actions have saved the island, I hope someone still kills him off because he's a mean s.o.b. who doesn't care about other people dying.
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It struck me while rewatching the Locke/Jack scene, where Jack adamantly cries out to John "We were NEVER important!" Oh, how wrong you were, Jack. Seems everyone has a purpose, everyone is important, whether its in the eyes of God or Fate. And that's a pretty optimistic philosophy. And just the fact that this show *has* a philosophy makes it one of the best on tv.
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I counted three specific close ups..never could get a good count..I think TPTB are messing with the folk.
...and just have to mention..It still..STILL bugs the brain to this day in the last bit of ep 1.3 'Tabula Rasa'..why.. when Jack and Kate are sitting on the beach in the clean white shirts (so much like the ones used by the BenOthers for Colleen's funeral)...why oh why are Jack's knuckles beat to hell..He did not fight anyone in the first three episodes..so either continuity error of the greatest unforgivable magnitude...or that scene is the final scene..the 'Washed Away' montage..When Kate says.."I want to tell you what I did..."
and Jack responds.."It doesn't matter, Kate..who we are ..what we did...Two days ago we all died..we all deserve a second chance"..she was referring to what became of Aaron..it would have such gigantic portend, portending, portends, portended brilliance in the story construction..depending on your temporal POV..that it makes me want to simultaneously kick in the junk and kiss on the mouth.. JJ and Darlton.
Magnificent bastards...
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Sayid's wife was dead already when Ben teleported into Tunisia- he saw it on tv when he checked into a hotel and realized then that he could recruit Sayid for his side.
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That you could tell he DID have 5 toes. Which is either intentional messing-with-the-fans, or bad costume/makeup.
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immortal richard
Like why isn't he the leader of the others -
***815 Losties--> 100+ days > OC6 leave island > left behinders & Island move
***Left behinders time skip > few days? Locke leaves> island stops skipping
***OC6 off island for 3 yrs> get on 316 Flight w/dead Locke > 316 crashes > OC6 get transported to island past when island stop moving (circa Dharma)> Jin sees Hurley, Jack, Kate
HERES BIG THING...THE SECOND LOCKE TURNS WHEEL & LEAVES IS ONLY DAYS AFTER OC6 LEAVE BUT OC6 HAS BEEN OFF ISLAND FOR 3 YEARS.....I SAY THAT THE LEFT-BEHINDERS HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST CIRCA DHARMA FOR 3 YRS SINCE TIME SJIPPED STOPPED WHEN LOCKED FIXED WHEEL. SO I AM SAYING THAT THE LAST TIME SKIP AS LOCKE FIXED WHEEL SENT THEM TO PAST WITH DHARMA NOW THE OC6 SHOW UP. WHAT HAVE LEFFT-BEHINDERS BEEN DOING ...JULLIET & SAWYER GET TOGETHER?..COULD YOU SEE FRICTION WITH KATE & JACK SHOWING UP? THIS IS HOW THEY INFLITRATE DHARMA...I WONDER HOW THEY GET BACK TO PRESENT OR DO THEY???
***316 Losties w/Lapidus, Locke, Ben crash> stay in current time as eveidenced by maps Ceasar found in office & fact that Leftbehinders visited this time during one of the time skips when they saw wreckage of 316 on beach.
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if the show is setting us up to make a decision between either Ben or Widmore being the good/bad guy, than wouldn't it make sense to have the answer end up being neither? I think there is going to be one more major element coming into play in the next 2 weeks that will explain it. A third person thrown in maybe....maybe we find out Farradays mum is the real evil bitch. It might make sense, she wasnt interested in Daniel being in trouble, we know nothing about her, she knows more than we do, and now shes too far away to question! Hmm...
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Jack broke off one of Locke's frozen piggies trying to put Christian's shoes on.
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Hahahahahahahahaha never, never, NEVER trust Ben.
Locke and everyone else should have that Tattooed onto their foreheads.
Good to see that Both Jack AND Ben were indeed lying to each other in the first Ep of this season. Jack at least knows not to trust Ben. And I suspect Locke might (FINALLY!) now come to that conclusion.
Resurrection IS going to be a hard one to pull off though. Yes the Island has magical healing powers and we already know that death on and off the Island have some crucial difference but still... it's a tough one to sell.
I tend to think Christian IS real and "resurrected" though as he lifted the Lantern and was seen by Sawyer when he absconded with Claire so it may well be that if you bring a "fresh" corpse to the Island *shazam!* it's resurection time.
Ben let's remember has been VERY careful about Lockes body so it's hard to believe he doesn't know that was for a reason.
Richard could have told him he had to die or Ben just wanted to use Locke as the proxy dead body instead of Sun when he realised he could persuade her. (Ben might even know she is "working for Widmore and planned to kill her and use her body as the proxy)
I don't think that The War will be faught in the past and those in Dharmatime will have to get back to the present. (after some amusing attempts to change history of course.) I think Widmore is going to the Island as the War will be ON the Island FOR the Island.
Desmond might ironically help Widmore back to the Island IF Ben killed Penny he certainly would, but I think dead Penny is still a bit obvious and hope there is something more to it than that.
Perhaps Desmond will find out that the only way to STOP Ben from killing Penny after an unsuccessfull attempt is to kill Ben himself ? Who knows ?
Rock Solid stuff though. -
maybe its Widmore and Ben who are the pawns.....not the losties.
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Because he's the guy in charge of FINDING the leader. Like the Dhali-whatever guy in charge of finding the Dhali Lama.
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That's a funny theory. I like it.
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When Locke is crying about promising Jin not to tell Sun he's survived. Ben is like "All right. A promise is a promise, right?"
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When Ben meets Jack at the funeral home, Ben mentions that Locke probably told Jack that he (Ben) was off the island. But Locke didn't tell that to Jack did he? Am I mistaken? Gonna check on this
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How long was Locke dead? If he was dead for a while, he didn't stink. If he was embalmed, he would stink less, so one would surmise he didn't stink. Yet it seems he was not embalmed because he a) came back to life; and b) returned to the island.
SO what gives about that?
Next, why would Lapides not change course and avoid the island? The moment of Jack greeting Frank was neat, but if Frank knew they were going back to the island, the first thing that he (and for that matter anyone else) should have thought of was "crash" and avoid it. Yet he doesn't bother.
Next, why does Ben kill Locke after saving him?
What time period is Locke in compared to the other Losties who are in Dharma time? Will they re-appear aged?
If Locke trusted the island, knowing he had to kill himself, which he apparently did, why would he even bother to listen to Widmore, who promised to save him?
Another point---Christian made it clear that LOCKE was supposed to save the island, not Ben. Christian also made it clear that Locke had to return everyone who left the island.
Matthew Abbadon was smart enough to realize that Walt was one of the ones who should have returned. But more importantly, what about Aaron?
What will the effect of these absences be?
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Especially when he says he "really will" miss John.
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Enough with giving it to the asshole on Bones or whoever they are giving them out to. O'Quinn was a tour de force tonight and if the actor playing Ben doesn't get some hardware, it's a travesty. Lost gets fucked because it's ensemble and sci-fi.
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but, and i've just finished the episode and have yet to read the talkback so maybe it's been mentioned already, but wouldn't dead john locke have been embalmed and shit and the funeral parlor? it's an amazing twist that he's alive but that kind of bugs me. that's also bugged me about vampire shows, like i know they're undead, but they still had funerals...
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what are these new bunch of survivors called?
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Charlie: I beat you to the question about embalming. The real issue is whether Locke--or all of Locke--really returned.
Mr. X: I formally nominate the following name for the new bunch of survivors: The other other other other others. -
Charlie: I beat you to the question about embalming. The real issue is whether Locke--or all of Locke--really returned.
Mr. X: I formally nominate the following name for the new bunch of survivors: The other other other other others. -
I think for starters you have to forget about embalming...I guess he probably was embalmed, that's what they do at funeral homes. But it doesn't matter if he was embalmed, he's alive and back on the island. You can't look for logic in it.
As for what time they're back to...well I think that Locke and the Ajira survivors, including the O6, are back in the 70s Dharma time that Jin and the leftbehinders are in...I'm just basing that on what I saw on the "next week on Lost" preview though -
It means Island in Hindi.
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You have to stop believing Ben or you're gonna wind up in an abusive relationship.
Re: the embalming. That looked like a cheap funeral home. Maybe they skipped it.
And Terry O'Quinn is the only one with an Emmy. -
Who lived in the Carribeean bc he had no one he "loved" back in the states. I doubt he'd care enough about his life back home to *really* want to avoid crashing into Mystery Island.
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I know what its like to advise girls that "damnit, he's just making you feel good now bc its SO good compared to when he's bad ALL the time!" But I can't help it! I love the bastard.
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The embalming fluid was magically turned into blood. Maybe Jesus was from Mystery Island.
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Cocaine's a hell of a drug.
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i wasn't going to let that little bit hold me up, what a great episode. remember before the season when brian k vaughan said this year would be the weirdest thing ever broadcast on network tv? i kept thinking of that throughout the episode, and thinking about how dense and inaccessible the show is. can you imagine if this was your first episode of the series that you've ever seen? christ, so awesome. oh and captain kirk, i feel kinda dumb because your post is like three above mine, what a lazy jerk i am.
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...about Sayid's wife, I forgot that. @captain_kirk - At flying altitude, you can't see the ocean under the clouds. And if Lapides did see an island below I doubt he could make the connection that it's THE island since in helicopter before he wouldn't know the geography of the whole island group from that low an altitude.
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You are correct. In the fourth season finale, Ben asked Jack if Locke told him he was off the island. Jack said yes, but Locke never mentioned it to him.
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I seem to be on a roll for LOST related topics, and all memory of past episodes seem to be easily accessible. An appreciated gift, since regulars like Brody and Nap Park and PaBurrows and EdShrinker and HoboCode don't seem to be around at the moment.
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Otherwise may faith in the show will drop severely.
From "There's No Place Like Home Part 3"
BEN: Sorry. Didn't mean to scare you. Did he tell you that I was off the island?
JACK: (Exhales deeply) Yes, he did.
No he didn't! Locke didn't tell Jack that Ben was off the island-did he?
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Loved the emotional hospital scene between Jack and Locke. Come to think of it all my favorite moments in the history of the show are between Jack and Locke, the powerful bond and battle between the two characters makes it one of the riches relationships in the history of the medium. LOVED the Ben killing Locke moment. Really didn't see that coming and it really reminded me of the Ben from earlier seasons. I completely trusted Ben this season even though I am aware of the thousands and thousands of lies and bad things he has done in the past and the saddest thing is that I know I will trust him again, haha. I just feel like at the end of the series Ben will be shown to still be a bad and flaawed person but with the interest of the island and how to save it. I love Ben.
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They have the same purpose. That's why Libby gave Desmond the boat. And being in the hospital with Hurley... somehow that makes Hurley go to the island.
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Maybe he did... Maybe he didn't. I don't remember it and I swear I've seen that episode 11 times. But then, I *AM* drunk.
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YES, Jack did say that Locke told him Ben was off-Island. Must have happened in an off-camera moment where Locke again tried to contact Jack- which makes sense, bc there would need to be more time between Jack meeting Locke for the first time, traveling a lot on the O6 Golden Pass, and Locke's Death. I'm willing to accept that.
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have something to do with the whole good person / bad person on Jacob's list.
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What did you think of The Life & Death of Jeremy Bentham? Who is Evil? Ben/Widmore & Which would have been the best episode order? 316/Jeremy Bentham
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Abbadon so quickly in the series. Espesaly when JJ brought him on Fringe supposedly to keep him around.
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Feb 26, 2009 12:43:34 AM CST
Man I leave for a half a day and this talkback devolves
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
into a polical debate!
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Lost changes the direction of its focus from season to season, not it's plot. The direction isn't different, the focus is. To wit: Season 1 - learning the island, Season 2 - the hatch, Season 3 - the others, Season 4 - the freighter, Season 5 - time travel. Rousseau's dead companions were victims of "the sickness" and as we saw TWO WEEKS AGO their sickness came from messing around with the smoke monster. She was also driven insane so seeing Jin was probably just another mind-trip of the island fucking with her in her eyes. The Others were never omnipotent . The entirety of season three was devoted to telling you who the Others really are and as we learned this season the Others are hella committed to protecting the island at all costs because of the Dharma Initiative attacking them. The polar bears were part of Dharma experiments (hello season three cages) and Vincent was never a construct, it was really Walt's dog. Walt was never the saviour of the island. Locke was, from day one, from the moment he stood up after the crash, the most important character on the show. Walt was just a kid with freaky powers that have yet to be explained. And we still have an entire season left to learn about Claire and that vaccine which was not just for babies (Desmond took it too). And we're gonna see Radzinsky, Desmond's predecessor, this season. Seriously, you're gonna have to do better than that if you want to tear down the show's writing.
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We know exactly how much time passed because when Ben asks Jack when he met with him, Jack says "a month ago". So Jack and Locke have the conversation in the hospital, a month later he kills himself. I guess I could buy the possibility that Locke had another conversation with Jack. But the writers are usually so careful to address things like this, I feel let down.
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...is Desmond.
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I assume that's what happened. Though its disappointing, bc Abbadon, in Season 4, was shaping up to be as interesting (and important) a character as Richard Alpert was in Season 3.
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I forgot that little mention. So I think its possible that Locke tried calling Jack again and as some sort of gambling device, thought mentioning the fact that Ben was off-Island would help persuade Jack to come back- ie, there are not more Evil Others to worry about.
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Considering Widmore was on the island until he was 47 in 1984, it makes you wonder how Penelope was born. Surely I'm not the first one to think of this.
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How he amassed his fortune in such a short time then (20 yrs)? And how he was able to provide Widmore Construction to help build DHARMA installations on the Island (I think that's been established before...).
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Who wants to bet that Benjiman wakes up with a grenade in his mouth next week?
Ok...a war is coming. Time to pick sides. Linus or Widmore? What led to young Chuck's "exile" from the island...How did lil Ben get him kicked out of the club? I guess we'll get to see that from Kate, Hurley, Jack, Jin, Juliette, Miles, Daniel& Sawyer's point of view from the swingin '70's. While the rest of the Ajira crew hang out on Hydra Island...in 2007?
What happens if you spin that donkey wheel the other direction?
Man, it was great to see Walt again...that boy is GROWN! And while he & dad parted ways unfavorably...you have to imagine that Walt's curiosity will get the better of him...and he'll wanna see if Michael is still hangin on that freighter just off the island. And with Bentham "dead", ya have to think Walt might get some assistance getting back there from Widmore. He is 'special', afterall. Plus, I bet he has dreams about Vincent, too!
Man...looks like Fringe's sked just doesn't jibe with LOST's shooting schedule. R.I.P. Matthew Abbadon. We hardly knew ye!
So...where is Sayid? He slip those cuffs and ran off...where to exactly? He jump in that outrigger with Lapidus & Sun ya guess? I could see a scene where he surprises Sun in the jungle, and says "Tonight...Me, Frank & you are taking that outrigger to the main island".
Love how LOST glosses over the most 'unbelievable' moments...Ceasar 'describes only' Hurley vanishing before his eyes...we don't 'see' it ourselves...We also don't get to see Locke step out of that coffin...and dust himself off...all miraculously resurrected. (No...Locke is not a walking 'dead' guy, ala Christian...he's there...alive and well). Had they 'shown' any of that stuff happening...a lot of eyes might have been rolling, including mine. As for whether John had been embalmed...it's not required by law that a body be embalmed. Especially one that has a 'fake identity'...no known living relatives...and who died in a crappy part of town. It's likely John's/Bentham's body was only kept refridgerated after his autopsy...he had no family to PAY for the embalming service...so he was just wheeled from refridgerator to refridgerator until his viewing at Hoffs-Drawler. Then a short stay at the meat shop freezer before boarding 316. So while the island has miraculous healing powers...I doubt it had to worry about pumping formaldehyde out of his cartoid artery and 'refilling' his body back up with blood. I'm not even convinced that John even needed that wheelchair when 815 crashed! (Hello Ricky Bobby syndrome!).
Vadar...That is odd that Widmore sent another bunch of philosopher named folk on that freighter. (that's a Fun sentence, huh?!)...makes ya wonder if they are fake names...Kevin Johnson was fake, too!
Guys...I'd drop the 4 Toed thing for now. Us counting people's toes is NOT how that will be revealed. My guess is the 4 toed "God" will have Hanso for a last name.
My mind is still reeling over this episode...it FLEW the fuck by, didn't it? Anybody else notice if the mysterious brown car was involved in John's crash? I'm too tired & lazy to check my DVR.
So...Next week...after Ben spits out that grenade...what will be his bargaining chip for Locke NOT to kill him? I'm thinkin Ben will tell Locke he knows how to get back to the swingin 70's with the rest of the gang. We'll see...Namaste!
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My theory is that Widmore amassed his fortune the same way Ben would be able to get Miles $3.2 million in a week - we don't know. My guess is by knowing some information about the past or future that can be used advantageously (a la Back to the Future Part 2). As far as Widmore Construction building Dharma stations - I've never heard this before and can't find anything on Lostpedia. Can you remember where you saw it?
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I seem to remember there being a hint, a connection, back in Season 2, when "Widmore Labs" was hinted at being responsible for Henry Gale's balloon and Sun's pregnancy test. I have a solid memory of there being some connection to their having helped built DHARMA, as a contractor hired by the Hanso Foundation. I wonder if it had something to do with the ARG at the time. Because this was all before Widmore showed up in Des's first flashback in the S2 finale.
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I do wonder what became of that book...
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Like suggesting the Kwon's helped build stuff too. I have no idea at this point. I did drink a lot of wine.
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that episode was awesome. love the way the writers can keep the whole good/evil-ben/widmore thing so compelling. fucking ben is so cold. gotta read the posts now that i've avoided spoilers all night. i'm tingling
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An anti-theory, a word I just made up, is a theory about why another theory is wrong. I have no idea what the 4-Toed statue is, but I have an anti-theory about what it is not. Every theory I hear seems to be that the statue was created out of worship of someone with four toes. But the more you think about it, this doesn't make much sense. First of all, according to Lostpedia, the foot is about 10-12 meters tall. This would make the full statue about 75 meters tall. That is TWICE as big as the freaking Statue of Liberty. Now don't you think if there was an advanced, bustling civilization on the island with the numbers, organization, and religion to build a statue that would be twice the size of the Statue of Liberty - then there would just a little more obvious archaeological evidence? And it's not just the foot, it is clear from the picture that the rest of the statue was either unfinished or lost somehow. So there was at least an intent by design to make the full statue and not just a foot. Also, the rocky outcropping where it is positioned would not be a good place to build a statue. So my antitheory is that the statue was not built by anyone on the island out of worship for someone else. It just doesn't add up. I realize this is the assumption simply because it's hard to think of any alternative theory. I certainly can't. But if I had to, the statue seems more as though it was teleported there from somewhere, somehow.
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their interactions are always great. i CANNOT WAIT until they meet up again!
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Even if we was on the island until 1984, it doesn't mean he couldn't have started building his fortune and empire. Obviously we still haven't seen the method to come and go from the island besides the donkey wheel. Ben was able to come and go from the island I think, Richard, Ethan...they brought Juliet, etc. I think there's a difference between their normal comings and goings and the frozen-donkey-wheel banishment.
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...then that would mean that a certain Penelope was born on the island, no?
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more religious overtones. if we're looking at locke as a messiah figure, it struck me that while he was standing there about to kill himself, it was kinda like in the last temptation of christ when satan came up to jesus on the cross and tempted him to come down from the cross. ben being the proxy for satan in this metaphor, i think it's a pretty interesting parallel. so where is sayid? we didn't hear cesar mention him disappearing. i believe he said "others" disappeared, but didn't mention "we have a convict on the loose." i think it's pretty obvious sun was the woman who hopped in the boat with frank.
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Perhaps young Charles was a rebellious 17 year old who refused to walk in Daddy's footsteps...gets banished from the island...and crawls back to his billionaire family with his tail between his legs?
Trust fund rich, perhaps?
OMG...That scene with Hurley and Locke @ Santa Rosa was priceless!! "Oh, hey...So,...ya didn't make it?"...Funny shit.
Kate's scene was very poignant...for Kate, anyways.
Sayid...The torturer/hitman turned all Habitat for Humanity? Looking for redemption only the island can provide? So...How did he end up in LA anyways...playing "perforate the bad guys" with a dishwasher? I think his new friend, Hotty Marshall paid him a visit in the Dominican Rebublic and he "ran" to LA.
Jack's scene was the best. Jack...just on the edge of unravelling. I think John's final words brought on the excess facial hair and the drug dependency. Funny those two end up staring suicide in the face. Man of science...man of faith...both paths led to the same destination.
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...I'm thinking all of the 'Oceanic 6' dissappeared, and ended up in the 70's or 80's...that's when Jin came rolling up in the Dahrma van...For some reason, Locke and Ben didn't jump with the flash.
If Sayid disappeared...he wouldn't be on the loose...he'd just have vanished.
If the O6 did all disappear, the woman may have been the flight attendant and not Sun? I don't think it was "Obvious" that it was Sun. -
maybe not obvious, but the way cesar said that the pilot and a woman got in the boat and took off said something to me. it seemed to me like it would be someone that frank would know he had work to do with. any other redshirt ajira survivor is just trying to get their damn bearings
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Thought it was interesting that Widmore was fascinated by Locke seemingly never aging (as he looked the same when Widmore was 17). Made me suddenly think of Richard Alpert. Maybe the guy never ages because every instance we've ever seen of him took place within a very short timespan on his own timeline and he's always jumping through time??
Also, I need to go watch again, but I could SWEAR I saw Charlie off to the right of the frame in the opening scenes at night w/ Locke on the island. Anyone else see this?? -
After Ben woke up in Tunisia, he went to a hotel and saw a news story that mentioned Sayid preparing burial arrangement for his wife.
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I'm surprised cuz Brody tends to lean on the fanciful side of things... also, dapper's anti-theory is basically the same point i come from, disproving a lot of the ridiculous theories like 4 toed statue watching ( whats made me laugh is all the BS about lockes foot... and its not even the SAME FOOT as the statue, same with the sawyer Nonsense).
anways... I also think that ben and locke are in the present, but caesar was looking at a lot of seemingly dated material in that office, those TIME magazines looked really old, so i suppose we still don't exactly know *when* the plane crash is yet.
The idea that the "woman with the pilot" might not be sun was interesting because i just assumed it was, BUT it would make more sense if she was back in time with the other 06'ers (meaning she can reunite with Jin, shes in the preview for next week so i guess we have to wait and see). Frank and Ben were never on the original flight and locke wasn't *dead* the first time so that whole idea shakes out pretty well. Especially if locke is Christian/jacobs? successor. He has to lead a new Flock (*cough*)
It was cool that they crashed on the hydra island (i still don't think the runway had to do with the future), I didn't realize though that at first when they had locke standing on the beach... I just assumed they were on a peninsula or something.
Anyways... for all that hot air, if they're all in the 70's this entire post is pretty much redundant. ><
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This fits with my idea of alpert (and perhaps a couple other characters) Being from a parallel dimension... perhaps richard just flashes in and out of our timestream. The only reason I've latched onto this is because I'm a fringe watcher and they're introduced that theme there as well... and i get the feeling that the similarities between the two shows will grow over the next season and a half.
What if the people who settled the island and built all that ancient shit weren't even from *our* earth? (that might make them aliens, no?) they might also have had a different history (only evolved 4 toes?). Anyways, something to chew on. -
I love this show so hard.
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For me, best of the season so far. Great character moments, great shots/reveals [Ben waching Locke talking to Walt]. Have seen it thrice already and have to watch it again. Absolutely loved the way they setup Helen during parts with Abbadon, Sayid, Kate.
Think I'd better go back and watch again instead of rambling. -
This was the first eppy of the season that felt like it was dragging a bit. But the last 15 minutes redeemed it. The story had to be told - we had to know how Locke became Benthem and how he really died. But it did not move the arc enough until the final act with the murder of John by Ben. Speaking of that ~ how are those 2 going to work together? I would hold a bit of a resentment from all the attempts on my life.
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I think some big questions were raised about how these characters' motivations relate to each other. So because Ben tricked Widmore into leaving the island, Widmore thinks Ben tricked Locke into leaving the island, whereas Christian told Locke that actually Ben tricked Locke into not leaving the island, when Jacob told Locke, not Ben, to move the island. Why? Now also it was Christian who told Locke to go to Eloise Hawking, a woman whose very name makes Ben kill Locke having only just saved his life. Yet we later see Ben and Eloise working together. And we think Eloise and Widmore were on the island together too. Can anyone remember how Ben reacted to Desmond's news that Hawking is Farraday's mother? Since Locke appears to have been brought back to life by the island, can we assume that Christian is alive too, or not? Was the island appearing to Locke as Christian because this information was needed to convince Jack to come back? Where does Christian fit into the battle between Widmore and Ben? Is this war going to involve Christian? Can anyone remember if anything Christian told Locke contradicted anything Richard told Locke? Where is Claire? How is Jack going to fit into this? Who is Jacob?
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I don't think that's it my friend. The island may not have allowed him to hang himself if Ben had not shown up, or maybe Ben showing up was the island's doing. I tend not to believe either of those.
At the point Ben learned Ms Hawking's name, Ben's use for Locke was done. At that point Locke was an obsticle. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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I could have sworn that was Charlie standing infront of sitting, hooded Locke on the beach. Maybe this is why Hurley brought the guitar...
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Widmore Construction was hinted at in season 2 a few times, but I believe that the place where its stated that Widmore Construction built the hatches is the ARG internet game that took place between season 2 & 3. A lot of Dharma stuff was revealed then.
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I thought Ben moving the island was selfless too, but we saw earlier this season Christian ask Locke when did Ben ever do anything for anyone but himself. So selfless and Ben should never be uttered in the same sentence again.
;->
As for the mercenaries not atacking Locke, I go back to when they stormed to compound and Ben grabbed Locke and said if he wanted to live to stay with him.
Ben if telling the truth might have said Stay with me because they won't kill you and I want to live and stay here.
It also could be that both Widmore and Ben know how easy it is to manipulate Locke. Keep telling him he's special. I mean he was cripple, he can now walk...I think he'll believe us and I (both Ben and Widmore) can use it to an advantage.
Ben killed Locke because he had all the info he needed...Locke was now an obsticle to Ben getting back and regaining power.
Also, remember when we 1st saw Jacob. Remember how many people said it was Locke? That was my thought then. I left that thought, but I'm back. The help me Jacob said was Locke telling himself to shape up...to take control, otherwise he'd be trapped in a world that totally owned him, his actions and his beliefs.
I don't think the island wants Locke as a leader because he's proven he cannot lead. Hell, he can barely follow. He's fulll of doubt, thinks he's a failure and and and............ He'd be the worst thing for the island AS A LEADER. As something else? A priest? A scribe? Teacher? maybe.
BTW - good to see you my friend. Hope you're holding down CLT.
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Or maybe Jack's pulling the log con on Ben. That's what I think anyway.
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is not Daniel Faraday's mother. We only believe she is because Widmore said so. He would never lie, would he? Eloise never even affirmed Daniel was her son. Why do we still believe they are monther & son?
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Ben and Widmore are using it to manipulate others so they can find the island themselves. Alpert may be using it because he knows it takes all of them to save the island.
I think everyone from Hurley to Sayid to Jack to Kate and even Locke have their roles to play in the protection of the island. Guess we'll see if/how that works out. -
You betcha. Ben did it...or at least made it happen somehow.
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The 'log con'? Isn't that what Sawyer gave to Kate? :)
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...or isn't this the first time we've seen the island bring someone back from the dead for sure. I mean Christian could be an island projecting an image of Jacks Dad, but Locke was really brought back.
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Maybe Ben's being conned by Jack. That's my belief.
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What the deal is with Christian and CLaire. Were they brought back to life as Locke was? Did ClaireBear die, Is Christian really alive? If it was a projection, I don't think he's have on the dirty, white Tennis Shoes Jack put on him. SInce Locke is CHristian's proxy on the return trip to the island - and he was brought back for life, I gotta believe it is the same thing with Jack's dad. Claire's status - by her appearance in Jacob's cabin (creepy) I think it is the same deal with her. Yet this raises other questions such as why not Boone and Shannon, Libby and AnaLucia and others who die not reanimated by the island?
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Feb 26, 2009 7:58:08 AM CST
"Hopefully from here on out they'll stick to linear storytelling
by wcme
That has certainly been LOST'S strong suit for 6 years, that's for sure.
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You just know that the next few episodes are gonna be like this.... the Ajira survivors in present island time (whatever that means) and the people who disappeared on the plane stuck in the Dharma Initiative 70's days. Will they interact with young Benjamin Linus? Will they cause the "incident" that will inevitably shift them back to the future (heh) with the Ajira survivors and the others who we haven't seen since Ben turned the donkey wheel? Then, the next part of our story will begin! This show kicks the shit out of everything else on tv. It's true!
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I'd love to see you anti my theory. It's part of the Collossus of Rhodes. It all goes with my theory that somehow this religious stuff is related to the gods rather than God. I came to the theory of 4 toe by taking the safe combination Ben gave locke and using it as a latitude.
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Feb 26, 2009 8:01:23 AM CST
Wow. Question of embalming is a pretty huge plot hole.
by orbots commander
I said up top earlier that I loved the episode, but some of you have pointed out the question of Locke being dead, corpse decay and embalming. That IS a pretty big plot hole. I wonder if the writers will insert a throwaway line of dialogue to explain it away.
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Feb 26, 2009 8:06:22 AM CST
orbots, you can't worry about regular physics or biology
by coughlins laws
First fo all, John Locke was paralyzed when he first went to the island and the island cured him. Then, Cristian Shepard was also embalmed but that didn't stop the island from bringing him back to life. Not to mention, Desmond, Locke, and Mr. Ecko were all inside the hatch when it imploded at the end of Season 2, and they all somehow lived. Do you worry about explaining all this? The writers aren't going to explain it anymore than the fact that "John Locke is too special and important to die."
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Maybe there's a race-track on the other side of the island, and Widmore's got himself hold of a sporting almanac, Back to the Future 2 style. Next week we find out that there is a nuclear reactor in the back of the VW bus...
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Funny. Never thought of that one.
As you probably know, though, The Long Con was a S1 episode (at least I think it was S1) where Saywer's con was "caught" by Cassidy (I think). But we later find him being caught was all part of the con.
My belief is Jack is conning Ben. Jack literally got addicted to drugs to con Ben into getting them back.
But I could be wrong. -
son is because Daniel Faraday said that she was his mother. Was he lying? My only problem with last night was Locke and Walt's meeting. Last season, Walt told Hurley that John Locke was calling himself Jeremy Bentham. How does he know this? Locke never told him. Unless Walt visited all the survivors and one of them told him to refer to Locke as this. But, this whole time, I just assumed that Locke told him to call him that but we never saw that.
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He's got to understand by now that he can't kill John. I get that he was just going use Locke to help get himself back on the island and once John gave him this information, he suddenly realized he could get back without John around. But, with everything he knows, he must know that Jacob would be pissed when he found out what Ben did. Not to mention the fact that it looked like all along that bringing Locke back, too, was his only way back to the island. I just don't get it. Now that Locke's back, he'll be the leader of the Others again. This is all making my head swirl...
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Is Richard...I'm including all the castaways and Others and off-island people. OK Richard and Penny. I have no idea why I trust Richard though.
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damn enter button and no editing
Anyway keen for that reunion. -
"There is a war coming" or
"There is a storm coming" ? -
Feb 26, 2009 8:32:15 AM CST
It's not Ben vs. Widmore...It's Eloise Hawking vs. Ben vs. Widmo
by spyguy
Mark my words, Eloise is a third player here and Desmond is her prime agent, whether he wants to be or not.
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Feb 26, 2009 8:33:43 AM CST
Oh, and Ben killed Locke because the Island wouldn't accept suic
by spyguy
Why, I have no idea, but there has to be some reason why Ben didn't just let Locke kill himself.
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i.e. When they were writing season 4,did they decide that John would tell Jack about seeing his dad?
or did they simply decide that john would meet all the O6? -
If that were the case then why would Ben wait as long as he did to do it? It's clear to me that Ben killed Locke after the revelation about Ms. Hawking...probably because he didnt want Locke seeing her. Ben at this point might not even know about Hawking's theory that they have to replicate flight 815 as closely as possible. Locke stands in the way of Ben returning as leader of The Others so that's why he's dead
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is because he wanted to earn Locke's trust back so he could hitch a ride back to the island with him. However, once Locke told him the name of Hawking, who knows how to get back to the island, and tlad him about Jin's ring, he knew he had enough leverage to not need Locke to get back anymore. So he killed him. He had to know that after all that, though, that Jacob/the island was still gonna bring Locke back and there'd be hell to pay for him...
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for his own interests. He doesn't care about what the island/Jacob want anymore. He just wants to be back on the island himself. He doesn't care that he was expelled. He was going to use Locke to get back. But once Locke gave him those two pieces of information, he realized he had enough to scam his way back himself and no longer needed Locke. Once he felt that he didn't need Locke anymore, it was time for him to go. It's been obvious for 2 and a half seasons now that even though Ben has been told that John is not the "Chosen One", he doesn't want to give up his own power. He has his own selfish needs...
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It started off shaky and I was a little worried for the series ... something was "off" at times in last week's installment too. But by the end it was a winner. I do still feel like Cuse and Lindelof might be a little rusty or something. The past two scripts didn't seem as sharp as usual.
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has been TOLD that John is special and the "Chosen One". I think that Ben doesn't care what Jacob wants and wants to go back as the leader himself. I still can't figure out who's more evil, though, him or Whidmore. Obviously, any redeeming they tried to do with Ben was just to set us up for showing how ruthless he really is and that he would do anything to get back to the island. However, I don't see how it could have been anyone but Whidmore who staged that fake plane crash. they both say the other one did it but I don't see how Ben could possibly have pulled it off. It had to have been Whidmore. The sedcutiveness of the Island make etiher of them capable of anything...
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Anybody who thinks Ben is a good guy doesn't remember the episode where he decided he wanted Juliet all to himself.
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Amazing. Pull your heads out of teh sand. There is no ambiguity or possible "good" reason for the murder of the freighter people or the decision to let Nathan be killed or the simple statement to Widmore that he would murder his child.
Do you people live in a state of denial? -
Feb 26, 2009 9:32:09 AM CST
If Ben killed Locke because of Hawking, that supports my other t
by spyguy
This is a 3-way battle for the island, not just Widmore vs. Linus. Eloise Hawking is on her own side and apparently Ben has a some sort of resentment against her and her agenda as well.
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Damn you, subject cutoff!
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I would love it if Jack was conning Ben, but I don't think he has it him. Dr. Giggles looked all beat down and sad on the plane. :( I don't think he could con a ham sammich at this point, nevermind Satan himself.
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As is proven time and time again, we just can't comprehend his motives...yet. Mostly I'd say it's because if he came right out and told the person he's manipulating *why* they need to do something, they'd think he was batshit crazy, or would outright resist out of basic human nature and screw it all up. Just because *we* are only seeing the 'present' and past in the show doesn't mean the future is any less established and tied up in complex cause and effect issues. There are probably a lot of hoops that these people have to jump through to make sure something very important plays out they way it should, just as the Island had to start time-jumping to make Locke's childhood visit with Richard play out, and all the stuff in between. Almost all of the scenes we've been presented with so far that show Ben being 'evil' have been red herrings. Naturally him strangling Locke was part of the same deal, he knows John has to die just as much as Alpert does, and again we're just not seeing the full picture. Maybe Ben knew that Locke was seconds away from chickening out, realizing that he REALLY doesn't want to die and getting permanently spooked from trying it again. Maybe Ben realized that his interrupting Locke's suicide could have potentially messed things up so he was just making absolutely sure it happens. Either way, Locke is getting strangled to death right there and then. There's no moral quandry involved, Ben is just not leaving it to chance.
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He's Chaotic Neutral.
End of story. -
Doctors and scientists are linked to the Dharma Initiative. Was Christian on the island at some point? Was he unable to get back to the island and like Jack, took to drinking himself to death?
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People keep talking about Claire coming back from the dead. When exactly did she die? We've seen that the smoke monster can look into people and pull their memories, and appear as dead people. Smokey appeared as Eko's brother right before he killed Eko. And I thought Cuse said there was several times in the show we saw Smokey without realizing we were looking at Smokey. Thusly I believe Christian Shepard is Smokey. I don't know about Locke. The writers say people who die on the show will always stay dead. So they did lie about that, or was Locke under the spider venom?
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I'm doing well, good to see you as well! George Romero was in town last weekend for a film fest/retrospective on his career and I got to meet him twice and get pictures. Was pretty freaking awesome. As for Ben killing Locke bc he had the info he needed (find Eloise Hawking) and Locke was now an obstacle- how was Locke and obstacle? That's the thing I don't get. Unless Ben had the same idea Alpert did- Locke has to die to get Jack's attention.
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I know re herrings. I am familiar with misdirection. There are not alternative interpretations of some of Ben's actions. He's a sociopath, pure and simple. Whidmore may be a good guy, that's still up in the air.
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Feb 26, 2009 9:54:39 AM CST
Do you want to know WHY we have Palin/Obama talk here?
by arcadian del sol
I'll tell you:
The Losties are so butthurt over losing the status of 'biggest stream of pointless banter and spammed 3 word posts EVAR" that they're trying to pad this talkback by infusing outrageous political commentary about Palin and Obama just to get people talking.
Im telling you: thats what that is. Im not asking you, Im telling you man. -
Ben should not care one way or another that Jin is alive, UNLESS he already knows that he needs all of the O6 to go back. And the only way he would know *that* is if Eloise Hawking told him. Which means he'd already met Eloise Hawking before seeing Locke and learning that Jin was alive. See, its a Catch-22, which is why I don't buy this aprticular theory.
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Look at what happened to Locke when he tried to be straight-forward with the 06. Not a single one of them listened to him. This is why Ben manipulates - he's learned that sometimes, its the only way.
None of this ever resolves the fact that Ben shot John and left him to die in the jungle. This part of the show's storyline has made zero sense since the beginning. -
Locke eating the mango on the beach was a nice echo from the first episode. Walt is on the beach looking for his dog (Vincent) and sees Locke. From Walt’s POV, Locke looks up and smiles, his mouth filled with a bright orange glow. It’s later revealed that he had the skin of a orange stuffed in his mouth. It was never explained why he was eating the orange is this way or why it had a radioactive glow. One of the first clues that Locke was special? Have not looked a the episode in years so the details may be off but the image of Locke smiling with the hyper orange color filling his mouth instead of teeth is still very clear. One of the first "What the fuck moments" for show.
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I think because he feared that Locke threatened his role as leader of the Others. When Locke survived and didn't seek immediate vengeance, perhaps Ben took that as a sign that Locke was meant to lead his people. When Locke was weak and basically gave up on the cause, then Ben no longer had faith that Locke would be the leader. So after he got the information he needed (Hawking) he killed Locke.
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Claire POSSIBLY died at othersville when a house exploded....atleast thats the last time we saw her other than @ Jacobs. And as far as what the writers say, dont listen 100% of the time, they like to throw us off.
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There isn't anything you are missing, so I'll just attempt to come up with a reasonable explanation: Jack is lying his ass off to Ben, just like Ben always does. If Jack tells Ben he had no idea, that gives Ben a chance to lie to Jack again. Even though Locke never told Jack about Ben, Ben has no reason to question Jack's lie since Ben knows that Locke has known that Ben was off island since he turned the wheel. There's also the possibility that the "he" that Ben referred to was Sayid.
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Here's a minor nit-pick for ya, along the lines of Locke telling Jack that Ben was off the island. Widmore says to Locke that "your parents had a sense of humor when they named you. Why can't I?"
Wouldn't Widmore know that John wasn't named by his parents, but by his mother alone? My point with this is that there will always be little things to take apart, but I find the show more enjoyable to take as it stands. Even a show this great is going to have a few slips here and there. Off subject but on the record, I think that Locke and co. are in the present, mainly because the runway appeared to be finished. Lapidus and Sun are anyone's guess. Hard to tell. -
The half broken neon sign for the hotel, using only the correctly lit letters, anagrams to: foretells with
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It was actually Kate who looked up at Locke, and she smiled, and she frowned, and Locke seemed to regret trying to make light of the situation and cheer up a survivor.
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and they seem to want Locke instead of Ben. So I'm going to not trust Ben, thanks. Richard and Charles are both original inhabitants of the island. So again I trust Charles over Ben. Jacob doesn't want to talk to Ben anymore and spoke to Locke. I mean come on guys. Stop liking Ben. :p (I can't seem to make paragraphs anymore.) Anywho, I'm rewatching "There's No Place like Home" and the scene with Hurley and Walt in the nursing home probably happened after Locke died. Walt probably referred to him as Bentham after reading the obit. And the kid wanted to know from Hurley why everyone is lying. Methinks, he knows his dad is dead. I mean it's Walt. He's got special powers.
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We saw Claire alive after the explosion. Claire "disappeared" in the jungle with Sawyer, and then Sawyer was screaming her name.
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The mercs shot a missile into it, and the whole thing went kablooey. Claire was found lying on the grass within the house's debris- by that I mean the whole house exploded in such a way that even the FLOORBOARDS had been dislodged, and yet Claire was there without a scratch. That's how I remember it anyway.
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my password stopped working on the other one so I went to this one.
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Claire didn't die in that explosion. It clearly showed her surviving, and I'm pretty sure that this has been covered in the podcast. BTW, Lostpedia currently lists Locke as dead.
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That's bizarre. I wish I had enough foresight to have multiple names. Now I just have to beg Mori to bring me back after I've been banned.
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Maybe Locke is Jacob now.
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Miles certainly was extremely interested in her after that event. It showed her "surviving" bc she didn't realize she was dead. Or something. She's up walking around like Christian.
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Sigh...Who says his mother named him alone? Maybe the guy who knocked her up told her that he loved the name John and so she decided to call him that. honestly the shit some of you choose to fixate on his hilarious.
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I had not problem with Locke and Ben being the only ones from the island staying in the 'present'. Both had exited by the island by a different route than the rest. They are in a different time sync. Of course it may just come down to "people end up when and where the island (i.e. writers) need them".
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Where they were conveniently building a runway in Season 3. Somebody knew this shit was going to happen.
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Ok ya got me. I just got in from last night's LOST meet up group in lower Manhattan. I was out pounding cheeks after I swung by a girlfriend's house. Btw, I curse better than you fucko.
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is even worse than their vision of Tunisia. Seriously, why does hollywood think every non-English speaking country barely has drinking water? I blame Spielberg who proliferated this shit with his ridiculous impression of San Jose in Jurassic Park.
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Wow! Ben Linus just never fails to disappoint, now does he? Basically, a petulant, psychotic man-child is screwing with the fate of the world, because HE MUST BE NOTICED AND BE IMPORTANT! Yeah, there's some heavy duty stuff happening/happened/will happen, but all roads lead or wind around Ben Linus. Give the man an Emmy, already!
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The writers have said consistently since Season 1 over and over again that characters who die on the show don't come back from the dead. Again, they've said that Smokey can look like other people, and that we've seen Smokey without realizing we're looking at Smokey. So Christian is likely Smokey. Smokey is not Claire, because then Claire would have had a dead body in the wreckage. And when Christian/Smokey appeared to Claire, it is readily apparent that she isn't Smokey.Claire isn't dead. The writers have said as such. If you want to believe something that directly contradicts what the writers have said, and what you can easily see on the show, then so be it.
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His performance last night was breath taking.
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You lucky guy. Dang, wish there was a Lost meetup in my area. I've checked, too.
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I agree. Terry O'Quinn was really great last night. Also the scene with Kate-Locke was the first time I've even been impressed with Kate's acting. Maybe he was elevating her game.
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(sorry about the empty post, I hate this new, tiny keyboard of mine)
But I'm still unconvinced any of us can truly nail it down. Not yet anyway. The Ben/Widmore competition has yet to leave me thinking I know who the good/bad guy is. There is much story left to be told and I get the feeling (in spite of his obviously horrible acts so far) over and over that he is simply nudging fate here and there to bring about tiny changes or prevent the corruption of timelines. Isn't eveil defined by the winners anyway? And since the war word has been invoked, I think we are in for some moral ambiguity the likes of which have never been seen at least on a TV show. This episode floored me, by the way. Even with a multi-day migraine destroying my brain. It was a real doozy. (the episode and the headache.. lol) -
Please give him a happy ending with Ghost Dad.
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I thought they were leaving it ambiguous. FIND ME THE QUOTE!!!
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They've mentioned it on their podcasts. They've also said about 50 times that people don't come back from the dead on the show. Oh, and on the show they CLEARLY SAID THAT CLAIRE SURVIVED.If you really want to believe otherwise, go ahead. I won't stop you.
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I'm not convinced he's evil either. He probably knew Locke would be resurrected by the island. Maybe the same thing happened to him? Something about Locke knowing about Hawking convinced him he had to die after all when he might not have thought that before. That's not to discount his other horrible acts but I think it's greyer than many seem to believe at this point.
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I agree and noticed it, too. She did come off as a real bitch though. How dare she come at Locke with that like
"and look how far you've come" (sarcasm)
As if she's changed a whole hell of a lot. She still seems like she's the same old "packed and ready to split" Kate she's always been. Kinda a bit too judgemental, dontcha think? Considering. Great scene though. For both of them. But I am getting sick of seeing everyone look at Locke as an old, desperate, delusional loser. That's going to change very quickly. -
Ben is still a 'good' guy. He KNEW Locke would be resurrected on the island, and he couldn't let Widmore find Mrs. Hawking. Widmore was clearly using & watching Locke, and Locke, and Ben knew he'd have to bring "the gang" to see Mrs. Hawking, ergo Locke couldn't be part of that gang. Ben knew that assembling the group would be a lot easier w/Locke than without him...he wouldn't have killed him unless the Hawking issue came up (he did not know/think John knew of her existence).
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Dead: Michael, Eko, Abaddon, Ms. Clue, Walt's mom
MIA: Walt, Rose
any black folks on Ajira plane?
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Feb 26, 2009 10:47:33 AM CST
every non-English speaking country barely has drinking water?
by smackfu
They do have drinking water, but it makes you poop. A lot.
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Despite the Christ-like symbolism of this episode. He hurled a knife into a woman's back becasue a child's phantom told him too. He seems to fucking swallow anything fed to him based on some bague idea of self-importance. It's pathetic and not a good attribute in the slightest.
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And if Christian isn't "back from the dead" and is just Smokey, why would he be interested in Aaron or tell Locke to say hey to his son? Or tell Vincent that he needs to wake up his son?
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A lot of white people are dying too. Charlotte, Boone, Shannon, Libby, Charlie. What's your point?
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There aren't a lot of black characters left. Plenty of white folk, though.
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When did Rose die? The last we saw them, they were fleeing the beach, but we never saw Rose and Bernard die.
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Locke's been told, mostly by Ben but also by Jacob...in his mind anyway, he's the ruler. He called the others his people. Think Ben would not consider that an obsticle to him being the one in power?
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I said Rose was MIA. It's possible she died from the flaming arrows but we don't know yet.
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Ben can kill Locke but he can't kill Widmore?
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Ben knows he can't be in power. I mean, Jacob gave him cancer, he moved the Island, he *knows* that Alpert wants Locke as the leader. He knows the Others are willing to be led by Locke. So I don't see how Locke is still an obstacle. Ben's goal, I think is to get back home to the Island, but not necessarily to lead. I dunno if they'd accept him if he said "Locke's dead, Im your leader!"
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Perhaps its an "Other" code.
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Ben does NOT know that Locke will be alive on the island. Else, why would he say he would miss John? If he knew he would have said something like "Sorry. Had to do it. See you on the island."
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Lostpedia says you can see Rose make it away safely. And there are several instances where Sawyer is asked about the rest of his people. There are other survivors that they just aren't showing. Bernard and Rose didn't die.
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Feb 26, 2009 11:18:11 AM CST
the mark of a great show... NONE of you know ben's motives
by turketron
We can sit here and write about whether Ben is doing what's best for the island or himself, whether he killed John because it had to be that way or if it was truly for evil purposes but NONE of us know. I love that they have kept this character so ambiguous from the very beginning of his introduction and kept it up for 3 years now.
He will lie to you for a long time. He will lie. -
that they are winging this shit!
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Darlton must be racists. Fear not however because I hear Obama's doing a guest stint.
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I'm just saying whomever brought it up above has a point- the black pple keep dying, limiting how many black pple are left on the show. Right now its just Rose. I don't think there's anything to it. Its just an observation. Bc they end up being some of the most interesting characters.
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Jesus, does anyone actually watch this show? Ben's sole goal was to get himself back to the island. Learning about Jin changed NOTHING regarding what happened in the room. Ben figured he needed Locke to get back to the island. However, after finding out that Whidmore had sent Locke to Eloise (who Ben clearly already knew), Ben determined he (1) no longer needed Locke alive, (2) needed him dead to fill Christian's shoes, or (3) knew Eloise would tell Locke that he did not need to bring Ben back and was afraid he would not be brought along as well. I have no idea why he reacted at all to knowledge that Jin was alive other than he could use that information to manipulate Sun. Maybe Ben had been to see Eloise and knew that he needed to recreate the conditions of arrival and wanted to avoid that. After figuring out that that was the path Locke was going to take back as well, he killed Locke so he could be ruler upon his return.
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Who is attending a Lost meetup? I host Chicago's Lost meetup. You can join at meetup.com.
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So n the season three finale we find out some people left the island. Then it takes the whole of season four to get round to showing some people leaving the island. Then after a few episodes of season five most of the people who left the island are back on the island. So what exactly was the narrative point of the Oceanic Six story line again? Why did it need to last from the end of season three to halfway through season five, and why did they have to tell us every single thing that happened in advance of showing us every single thing that happened? Don't get me wrong, I think the quality since the back stretch of season three has been outstanding and this year has stepped up a notch again. But if I ever watch the whole series back on DVD ten years from now, I have a feeling the whole Oceanic Six plot is going to seem dumb as fuck. They found a way to keep doing filler without making it look like filler, then spooned it out in globs until it was time for something to happen, whilst chopping up the time frame so nobody could quite put their finger on how pointless leaving the island and coming straight back is to the bigger story. I suppose it allows a shift in character motivation so that the show is nolonger about crash survivors who want to be rescued, but still.
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I had forgotten the password to this one - it was my original - and when my new one (DS) was broken (which continues to be a mystery), I remembered this one.
I would be shocked to learn that some action was taken against me. Im not Harry's biggest fan by any stretch, but I've never really done anything to earn an actual ban.
I did have sex in the back of a Corolla with his wife, tho. I wonder.... -
Every single Bush speech is archived. Please find me one direct quote where he said that your life was in imminent danger from Iraq.In reality, he said Iraq supported terrorism, and Iraq was part of the war on terror. He said that they possessed and sought out WMD, which is true.Bill Clinton came to Bush's defense saying he personally saw all the intel, and knew they had WMD. Clinton said that is why he bombed Iraq. Every major Democrat in Congress said they saw intel and that is why they authorized the war. India stepped forward and said they had intel on Iraq and WMD.Bush didn't lie. He was just an idiot. He went on national television and gave Iraq two weeks notice before the invasion. And really, he gave them two months notice before then when he was talking UN measure.Powell then told Congress that he was watching all these trucks leave Iraq, going into Syria, saying now we likely won't find hardly any WMD because we gave them time to move them. Sure enough we went in, and found empty storage areas. We did find some missles with sarin gas, but mostly we found documents, training materials, etc.Bush was an idiot. But he didn't lie to start the war.
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are alive, as stated by Darlton during a podcast. So is Vincent. However, I believe the population of meatsocks (other survivors) is pretty much 0. Of course, now we have a whole plane full of 316 survivors, sooo... Yea.
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Taking pot shots at people's family members isn't cool. If you want to criticize Harry, that's fine. Don't talk shit about the man's wife.
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Feb 26, 2009 11:58:20 AM CST
"HEY GUYS HOW CAN WE GET MORE POSTS THAN BALEBACK?"
by arcadian del sol
I KNOW - LETS ARGUE ABOUT GEORGE BUSH!
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No doubt they've got a plan to paper over these cracks with the frozen donkey wheel and Desmond/Penny plot strands. But seriously, other than a shocking cliffhanger in season three, what happened to Jack and Kate while they were off the island that anyone should give a fuck about, and why was it such a big disjointed strand of the show for a season and a half? Yes, they want to get rescued. But by the time they do get rescued, we already know they got rescued for a year already! And Jack also told Kate we have to go back to the island in season three. And now they're back on the island. In season five. Erm, why was it they left again? To do what exactly? Too much of this is moving chess pieces around the board. There needed to be more of, you know, a story. I think they thought if they showed everything all jumbled up everybody would think oooh isn't this mysterious instead of why the fuck isn't anything happening and why should I dramatically care.
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The 815ers (minus Locke and Rose) spent 3 seasons trying to get off of the island. Then, when it looks like it is about to happen we see that at least Jack and Kate make it home. Then Jack yells "We have to go back!!!!!" WTF? He was desperate to go home now they need to go back to the island. The point of the story is to get them to realize that they needed to be ON the island, not trying to get OFF of it. The WHY was setup during season 4. Sure they are back on the island now, but I'd hardly call the story pointless since whatever is to come would not have been able to have been told without the O6 story.
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This is how. http://tinyurl.com/blz3qd
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If you're going to spend so long building up to a rescue that you already telegraphed coming, then you have to make that rescue pay off with something following on from it, instead of just having them come straight back to the island again, which you already telegraphed too. Oh, they get away with this on an episode by episode basis by throwing in fascinating mythology bombshells in spades, but as a series arc, it sucks frozen donkey balls.
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So let me get this straight: Locke gets a fake passport under the name Jeremy Bentham. And how is it that the O-Six are so familiar with this name that Jack immediately realizes it is Locke from the random tiny obituary he read when he encountered that name for about 5 minutes in the emergency room? Give me a fucking break. Complete plot device to stretch out the "mystery" of who was in the coffin. The frayed threads on this suit are beginning to show.
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He was admitted to the hospital under that name. You're suggesting that it is completely unreasonable that an intelligent doctor can't remember the name of someone who was a major figure in their life?Sorry, I'm not buying it.
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Are you young or just a little slow?
Nobody said Rose was dead. They just pointed out she had been absent from episodes by saying she was MIA (not in the context of the show, but to us, the viewers)Locke is resurrected, are you going to refute that? So, perhaps you should not take anything the writers say so literally. Locke is probably alive because the island is not done with him. Claire should have died in that explosion and may have. That is still ambiguous. Either the island prevented her from dying or she is like Christian.Smokey also only appears to be able to take the form of people who have died on the island.
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You want Baleback numbers, this is how you get them: http://tinyurl.com/aoonoj
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Really? The show sucks bc Jack remembered that the name Locke had in the hospital was Jeremy Bentham? Please. Come back when you've got something valid.
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I think the point is that Locke barely even mentioned the name Jeremy Bentham to anyone, yet they are all perfectly accustomed to calling him by it. It is pretty obvious that, from the writer's perspective, the entire point of using the false name was to stretch out that particular mystery. I'm also pissed that he barely said anything important to anyone. He didn't even MENTION Sawyer to Kate. Locke is epic fail when it comes to persuasion tactics. And Ben is epic win. And epic sociopath, to boot.
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No, you did. What I said was it was a clear plot device for a name that was barely uttered in the episode. It wasn't like there was a history built up with that name. Think about how many names you encounter in a day, and you'll remember one random one in a newspaper a week later? Please.
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I thought we were going to see the oceanic 6 menaced by Widmore's people, or each have some sort realization about the island while back home, or why life at home sucks compared to the island. But now they are very suddenly going back on a supposed one way ticket to this deserted island that they've never really acknowledged or accepted the supernatural powers of in the first place. This season is the first one to make me question whether they really have just been making it up as they go along and getting lucky thanks to the snails pace the plot has moved along at until now. And OhioBobcat, sorry, but the "WTF" factor of seeing them want to get back so bad (for still no explained reason really) after wanting to leave for so long is hardly good enough. There has been hardly any explanation as to the why of anything that's happened. Especially for the characters who aren't Jack. It's like every character is Ben now and we have no idea what any of their real motivations are for what they do. One season left and the show is still vague as hell on what everything is actually about. If the ending answers most of this shit I can't imagine the show could hold up that well on repeated viewings knowing the answers. Does anyone rewatch season 2 now that we know the hatch isn't really much of anything? Also, that jumping through time to show the french people and whatnot just seemed a tacky way to give out "answers" or whatever.
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That scene opens with Kate saying no. We didn't see what Locke said to her. Then she repeats, everyone on the island will die. She knows she left Sawyer behind.GrandMuffTarkin, this isn't a random name he just happened to encounter. It was the name Locke choose to go by, and the O6 were accustomed to lying.
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I tell you, they're all aliens (except the ones on "Jacob's List") who've assumed the identities of those killed on Flight 815, sort of like DARK CITY or BLADE RUNNER, and they have to work out self awareness before "dying" and reassuming their natural form. Smokie is what the aliens look like in their natural state, and The Island is on another planet/dimension.Others have posed these thoughts, so this summary is hardly original...
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...who dropped the food with the parachute, in season 2?
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So where does it say Iraq was a threat? My wall of political bias makes it impossible for me to see the obvious evidence presented before me. (/sarcasm)
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Is enbalming really that big a deal considering he CAME BACK TO LIFE? Really? The island put John back in the state it wants him to be. Healthy and ready to deal knife justice. Leg? Not broken. Damage from the car crash? Gone. And, of course, not dead anymore. At this point taking care of enbalming ould have been a parlor trick for the island. Although, Locke having to wipe off funeral home make-up would have been funny.
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It would be funny if, during their visit to the 70's Dharma, the Losties cause a food drop from then to skip through time and end up in season 2.
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Or DHARMA thought they were alive on the Island.
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Actually I think they answered that. Either in the ARG thing or in one of those folders in the one eyed russian guys station, something somewhere said something about automated food drop deliveries for the swan station people.
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Maybe they caused the island to go back in time regularly to a specific point in time where the original food drop happened. And the blast doors were to keep people safe from the time travel sickness.
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They've both 'hopped off' the Island to a time where they're still alive. What I mean is, if you're alive here in 2009, then went to the Island and got dumped back out in 2007, you can't die. Because they're aren't 2 of you now in 2007, there is still just one of you, and at the very least you will remain alive until you reach 2009 again. For the same reason the Island wouldn't let Michael kill himself. Because of temporal causality, Michael survives until the freighter to participate in the events that have already happened (though not from our temporal pov). Again, just because we're seeing the present 2006-2009 stuff, doesn't necessarily mean it's Ben and Widmore's present. They both have knowledge of some yet to happen Island event, which is obviously because they've both already been there, and have 'hopped off' into their past, which is our present. So they can't die at each other's hands, or anyone elses, because in a temporal continuity sense, they don't die yet. Easy peasy.
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Say you're Iraq, and your about to be invaded by the US. Why send all your awesome weapons and shit out of the country never to be used? Didn't you see that video where Saddam was looking at crossbows, clubs and slingshots with his elite republican guard saying "yes, this is good, we are well prepared for the invading white devil" I mean who are you still kidding at this point about this WMD bullshit.
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Interesting... the revelation that the island is constantly moving through time and space opens up all kinds of weirdness.
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I think Hawkings kinda said something about the island constantly moving last week, but I could be wrong.
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Get the sand out of your vag Rosasaks. The 06 plotline has now taken up 16-17 hours of Lost out of the 90 they have had so far. Take a fucking pill.
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It is pretty funny in your list of people talking about Iraq and the threat, you left off all the leftist morons as well. Everyone believed the intel that said there were wmd in Iraq. Go listen to hilary and the rest of the douchebags that make up the leftist regime. Liberals voted to give authorization for the attack. While your digging up dirt make sure you include everyone. I would still take Bush anyday over the smug prick that is Osama bin Obama.
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Like a drone that flies over? It must be a person.
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What I want to know is where all the room 23ers are holding their talkacks now? feck the mysteries of teh island..haha
i've been off the island for a while but now im back and wearing Jacks dad's shoe's...
This season has been great so far...were getting answers to wee questions all the time but still leaving teh big mysteries hanging over us....but how much of a fuck is Ben, just when ur warming to him u end up fucking hating him with a passion again...also when we saw Locke at the start of the episode all was good and right in the world...if Locke dies and remains dead, Lost would lose one of its greatests assets...even if Jack died I dont the loss would be as much...
onyl bad thing is there is only 10 more episodes left this season...bad times, but theres a war coming...good times------------namaste
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Let me get this straight. Your blaming Democrats and liberals for believing the administration's manufactured and trumped up intelligence? It's their fault now? Gotcha.
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Agreed about Ben.
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smackfu had an interesting theory as to why Ben and Whitmore can't kill eachother, they've hopped into their past while they're still alive, but that would just mean that two Bens/Whitmore are existing at the same time so the time traveling Ben/Whitmore could kill each other because the original Ben Whitmore pair that haven't traveled back in time yet would continue to exist in that time period. For proof, see when the Losties traveled back in time to season 1, they existed in two spots simultaneously (Sawyer, Locke were traveling through the jungle and Sawyer saw the birth of Aaron while at the same time, Season 1 Locke was also banging on the door of the hatch and Season 1 Sawyer was at the caves mourning the death of Boone.) So, yeah, on Lost you can exist at two points at the same time.
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torture is so bad until it serves their purpose. then its 'too bad we cant torture our enemies' from them.
stay classy, fat assy. -
I thought there would be a big mystery to him, but it turns out he's just Whitmore's goon who gets people from place to place and then (either physically or metaphorically), BOOM! he's dead. Damn job on Fringe screwing up good story potential.
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Nice to see u again mate...
Ben is one of my favourites in this show, along with Locke and Des...but dear god, just as he is turning everything around and u start to love him, out comes an eletric cable and he strangles his way back to being a villainous bastard again...
his Darth Vaderesque character of revealing himself as a good guy can still be obtained, but he is such and evil murdering fuck he going to have to do soemthing major to make us forget about several seasons of backstabbing villainry..fucking love him though -
I'm just annoyed by bias, which I can see on both sides frequently. People will argue until they are blue in the face, but they only become further entrenched in their own beliefs. They are emotionally tied to a certain ideology and their brains will screen out any facts that do not conform. The last election really showed me how pointless any attempt at political discourse is.
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Feb 26, 2009 1:40:14 PM CST
Hawkings kinda said something about the island constantly moving
by gob adama
She did, yes.
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Ok, I get that he didn't have much success convincing the six to go back to the island on his first try, but Locke has proven himself to be anything but a quitter. Not Mister "Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do." Especially when the lives of so many other people depended on him succeeding. I mean he didn't even explain what was happening to the others (you know, like telling Kate that Sawyer was about to die). And if he couldn't ultimately convince them, then at the very least, you'd figure he'd try to find a way back to the island himself and die with those he couldn't save. The prediction of his death shouldn't have been enough to move him to suicide either.
They made a big deal about Abbadon saying that Locke would "owe" him one when they met again. I was disappointed that they dropped that. I wanted to know what he would ask for. I'm not sure of his loyalties to Widmore either, since he tried to play it off like he didn't know Locke in Widmore's presence. Not even the batting of an eyebrow.
So I guess that since Locke retained his ability to walk, Rose can leave the island now, without having to worry about her cancer coming back? Not that it's ever that simple with the island.
Ben said, alone and in candor, that he would miss John. Granted, he seemed to do what he did in response to Eloise's name, but did anyone get the sense that he was sacrificing Locke to gain points, somehow, with the island, in the same way that Locke had to kill his dad? I don't know, I'm just trying to make better sense of the scene. -
Sorry I missed you in the chatroom by like... 1 minute.
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Abaddon did tell Locke the next time they saw each other Locke would owe him one and that never happened. If this is the last we have seen of Abaddon then it was a complete waste.
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I'm a Liberal. I think Bush is an idiot. However every single major Democrat all agreed with the intel. Other nations with their own intel said the same things. Clinton, when he was President said he knew there were WMD. Gore said there were WMD. Hillary said there were WMD. So even though Democrats were saying this before Bush, he made up the lie. He altered India's internal intelligence.You go tell the Kurds that Saddam didn't have WMD. Watch as they beat you senseless.Get a fucking clue.
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How much better would this episode have been if they waited for the end for the Locke reveal...?
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Terrible, evil, villainous though he may turn out to be (and I think the jury is still out on that), I love Ben. He's just an amazing character and Emerson plays him like a freaking fiddle.
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Bush over Obama? you can't possibly be serious. Bush is one of the worst presidents we've ever had, and a war criminal. Obama has done more in one month that Bush has done in 8 years...ie: close that hell hole Guantanamo Bay.
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1) don't pirate and then parrot Iowahawk.."i like the cut of your jib"...sheez...plagiarisms..wooooo.
B) Grow up..you are kid..you don't know what the goonie goo goo you type of...do you...yeah 18-24 demo..NO SERVICE..sheez...how do I know...you use OMG...well, you are either a kid, a girl, a girly kid, or a sicky overcoat wearing, camper van driving...well..you get it..OMG!
You brain vomit base, common and popular (among the John Stewart click) ideas.. Oh my sweet dear and fluffy Lord...grow up..can I get you some more vinegar?...you know ..to refill your douche-eee-ness OMG (ironicality)..you frakkin child. -
of course the liberals voted for the war, liberals, republicans, and regular citizens were all lied to by the Bush administration and duped into this war. Just because Bush and Co. fooled the democrats doesn't mean that his lies were justified. What is your point there?
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Given that Locke was on a mission for the island while off of it, Rose may or may not be so lucky is she left. No way to say at this point.
I think Locke truly gave into despair. He no longer believed he was special. I can accept that. Now that he has been resurrected, however, any more lapses in belief would be incredulous. -
It's absolutely necessary. First, it follows through on the motivation/desire of the group from the first season: get back home. If they lost that desire or that desire wasn't paid off in some way, the audience might feel cheated. Second, the O-6 story services one of the apparent themes of the show, which is "Don't defy your fate." For whatever reason, the O-6 were meant to remain on the island. Their defiance of fate has apparently resulted in the death of Sayid's long-lost love, the loss of Aaron, possibly the death of Penny, etc. True, this is due to the machinations of the men who want to control the Island, so it begs the question "Are Widmore and Ben unwitting agents of fate?" But that's a digression. The point is that the O-6 story served a thematic purpose. Related to that thematic purpose, I think it also gives the audience an opportunity to see just how important the Island came to be for those people. What are their lives like post-Island? Are any of them fulfilled? Once the immediate shine has worn off for them (Sayid's reunion with his love, Hurley's reunion with his parents, Jack and Kate's short-lived domestic situation), what purpose do their lives hold? I got the feeling that they were much more personally fulfilled on the Island than they were back in the states.
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You mean the PR move closing Guantonomo Bay, it won't be closed for another year. I bet you'll feel pretty stupid when the people locked up come back and fight against our country. You liberals are idiots, the reason Osama struck in 2001 is because Clinton didn't get him when he had the opportunity. Bush spent 8 years cleaning up his ridiculous mess. Obama has done more in one month, what? All he has done is given handouts to you and the rest of the sniveling idiots who voted for him
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STOP with the political posturing already. You're giving me a freaking headache. Onto something that actually matters: LOST! If Abaddon was truly Widmore's "muscle" and nothing more, we must put the blame squarely on Lance Reddick for inhabiting the character with such purpose and menace. If a lesser actor had filled the roll, we probably wouldn't be thinking, "that's IT?" About Locke "owing" him... Locke's entire "mission" (which happened to sync with Widmore's, at least superficially) was the "return favor". OK. Not back to your regularly-scheduled political clusterfuque.
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GB is full of fucking innocent cab drivers you retard. Being held unlawfully for no reason and without being formally charged. Go Bush!
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Bush, Clinton, Obama, Reagan, etc. BEN LINUS FOR PRESIDENT!!!
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...to repair the fucked up state that Bush left this country in is a PR move? Classic right wing retarded-ness.
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Both Richard and Christian tell Locke he needs to die in order to save the left behinders. But the island doesn't flash Locke onto the island (with Jack kate and Hurley.) I think the island needs Locke on the Hydra Island for some reason. In order to save them he needs to be on that island with those people, in 2007 to perform some task to save the day. Maybe there, Locke can do something to bring the rest back from the 70's. i think Ben killed Locke so he wouldn't contact Mrs. Hawking. I donr know, so many questions. Great episode though!
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Seriously, lets stick to something we are all informed about, ie LOST, rather then talking politics. Guantanamo is a hell hole? Guantanamo is full of innocent cab drivers? GB is conducted with higher standards and more oversight then ANY domestic civilian prison or penitentiary. The overwhelming majority of its occupants where captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan, not driving a freaking cab (?). Its not a prison for terrorism suspects, its a prison for enemy combatants picked up on the battlefield, where many of them have returned after being released from GB. Its ok to hate George Bush, but try to hate him for real things, rather then things you are making up in your head to justify your hate.
And for the record, the intel on Iraq WMD was developed by the CIA under Bill Clinton and George Tenet, not George Bush. Hence it was Tenet, the holdover CIA director from the Clinton years, who pitched the intel to Bush.
You can easily find speeches and comments by such leading Democrats as Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Carl Levin, Nancy Pelosi, Al Gore, and on and on, all testifying to the existence of WMD in Iraq. Not just in 2001 when they voted for the war, but as far back as 1998, when they supported Clinton's bombing of Iraq based on the exact same WMD Intel.
And it wasnt just India...Great Britain, France, Germany, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Italy...and even the UN's own intelligence services. This is just part of the list. ALL of those countries backed claims of WMD in Iraq before the war, and some of them even contributed intel and evidence to Colin Powell's UN presentation.
George Bush didnt "LIE" to all of these people. He based his judgements on the same Intelligence that everyone else saw. There was a long-established international bipartisan consensus as to the existence of WMD in Iraq. Claiming that Bush "Lied" and somehow misled everyone is simplistic, sophomoric, and historically inaccurate. It also serves only to obscure the larger issues surrounding the intel and the invasion of Iraq.
Cap'n Jack, you dont have your facts straight...at all. Probably because you are too colored by partisan hatred of Bush.
Back to LOST...PLEASE!
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And as far as closing GB being a PR move...well, absolutely! Guantanamo Bay had become a black eye for the USA, rightly or wrongly. So in a (good) PR move, Obama announced he would close it, to improve our image in the world. Hence, a public relations move aimed at the rest of the world.
He isnt releasing the prisoners...in fact he has no idea where he will put them when they close GB in a year, which might be a problem, to say the least. But of course its a PR move. Obama wants to clean up our image interntationally...you use Public Relations moves to make that happen. Not so complicated. -
Obama doesn't close guantamo he's a hypocrite. He does and it's a "pr move." Explain to me, in a few short sentences, what life is like as republican mouth peice and soulless tool. I'm guess you've learned half your value system from that fictional fox made for tv movie written by republicans with that bullshit scene where clinton "had a chance to pull the trigger on osama but didn't?"
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Necgray what you've said just seems to expose how weak the oceanic six story was to me. We had no time to see how unfulfilled everyone was off the island. We saw absolutely nothing that would drive these people who hadn't believed in anything mystical about the island at this point to just abandon civilization and go back to this dangerous weird and mostly uninhabited island permanently. In fact they all literally just show up for the plane without explanation except for sun and jack. Maybe they saved that for future flashback material but it just made the build up that came previously look a lot weaker and pointless.
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...the war that he started killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, MANY times that of the 9/11 tragedy. If Osama should hang for his crimes, Bush should hang for his. He is the definition of 'terrorist', he bred an environment of fear in this country to justify attacking a country that NEVER EVER EVER attacked the United States.
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I'm interested to find out what happened to her. If she is indeed the "some woman" that's wit hthe Frank than wh ydidn't she flash onto the island with the other 06. And where the shit is Sayid?
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...It's too bad Bush didn't kill MORE Iraqis. It's too bad he didn't bomb your fucking trailer.
Nuke the goddamned middle-east. See how much better things get. -
I think Sayid was also in the outrigger with Lapidus and Sun. Only Sayid could shoot at the other outrigger well enough to miss on purpose as they commented on in that episode.
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Both Republicans and Democrats share responsibility for this credit bubble. They are both big government spendaholics and they both support a corrupt banking system and currency based on ever increasing debt. And like all pyramid schemes, ours is now imploding and both parties are intent on doing more of the same and looting whatever is left of our wealth. It fits Einsteins definition of insanity, if you ask me. Bush obviously fucked us, but Obama is just going to make our fall that much more dramatic and prolonged. The solution to a credit bubble is not an even larger credit bubble.
As for the war, NOBODY with half a brain, honestly believed in Bush's excuses for the Iraq war. For some it was oil, for others it was about "defending" Israel, but the whole WMD crap was merely for public consumption. Even our own inspectors (and much of the CIA) were arguing against the WMD case. And of course everyone knew that Saddam wasn't crazy enough to use them, even if he had them, because that would have been the end of his rule and he only cared about staying in power. He was fully cooperating with us up until the point where we started stacking the inspector deck with CIA operatives and Madeline Fucking Albright made a public statement that we would, under no circumstances, lift the sanctions on Iraq. The Republicrats wanted the war and they got it. Stop letting them divide you with their bullshit rhetoric. -
Really now. Its like some of the things you seem to take as "fact" are about as fictional as LOST. Yes, closing Guantanamo is a PR move, and a good one at that. Whats wrong with that? Its hardly a criticism to say that Obama announced the closure of GB as a PR move designed to help our image. I happen to think that putting all of those people through our civilian court system and then into civilian jails would be a bad idea, but that doesnt change that closing GB is good PR.
But what really galls me is your loony reference to THE PATH TO 9/11 as a "Fox made for TV movie written by Republicans..." Do facts not even remotely register anymore in the "real" world? That movie was produced by Touchstone Television, ie DISNEY. It was aired on ABC, not FOX, and incidentally another Disney company. It was produced by Marc Platt, better known for producting LEGALLY BLONDE, and also known as a card-carrying Democrat. It was written by Cyrus Nowrasteh, who got the job not because of his politics, but because he had done a good job in a similar fashion writing THE DAY REAGAN WAS SHOT, also a docudrama, that one produced by Oliver Stone, the well-known Republican and Fox shill, right? PATH TO 9/11 was adapted from several respected books on the subject...and if you bother to read the official 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT, or any of the books the docudrama was based on, or even the books of Richard Clarke or Jon O'Neill or George Tenet, you will find that in fact Clinton DID have the chance to go after Bin Laden, DID have the chance to pull the trigger, but decided against it because of other international and domestic political considerations. And also because 9/11 hadnt happened yet, and Clinton didnt see the threat as clearly as it would become. Just deal with facts people...just because you hate Clinton or hate Bush doesnt change the facts of reality. Clinton was President for the very 8 years that saw the rise of Al Qaeda, culminating in 9/11. Bush was President for 9 months when it happened...there is plenty of "blame" to go around. -
I disagree with your O6 criticism, I think necray did a fine job showing us how crappy the O6's lives had become. Hurley's in a mental institution living out the "ignorance is bliss" mantra. Jack is boozed up and depressed. Kate can pretend she's a happy home-maker but she misses Jack and Sawyer and lives in fear of being found out. Sayid lost his wife, killed many people for someone else, and now wants to atone. Sun is menacing and bitter and filled with a desire for vengeance... I think its quite clear their lives are pretty shitty at this point compared to life on the Island. And yes, we will find out what drew Kate, Hurley, and Sayid onto the plane.
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Really? I am being slightly hypocritical as I often participate in these, but is that all some of you can think about.
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The one that erroneously says Kate dies this season. thanks.
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BTW, Bush did indeed start a war that led to the death of tens of thousands of Iraqis. That war was intended to overthrow Saddam Hussein, a dictator who was murdering his own people, and making life miserable for millions, Kurds, Shias, etc. Once Saddam was removed, thats when people started to die, not during the war itself. Those people, those tens of thousands of Iraqis, were then murdered by Sunnis who wanted to restore Baathist rule as it had been under Saddam. They were murdered by foreigners who entered the country illegally as Al Qaedists, strapped on bomb belts, and killed innocent civilians. They were murdered by Shia death squads targeting Sunnis for revenge, death squads armed and trained by Iranian Secret Service, btw.
So yes Bush started the war, but the vast majority of Iraqi civilian deaths came at the hands of Iraqi Sunnis who wanted to restore the tyranny of the past, Iraqi Shias aided and armed by Iran who wanted to seize control as an Iranian proxy, and foreign Al Qaeda members with their own agenda. And the American military was caught in the middle, PROTECTING Iraqi civilians.
So yes, Bush started the war, or maybe Saddam started the war, but how about leveling some of your blame at the people who actually did the killing? Its facile to say everything is because of George Bush.
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It still continues!
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So what you're saying is that nothing was accomplished by going into Iraq. Just more killing. Difference is now we are caught in the middle. Is that the jist of it? So yes, I blame Bush for those deaths.
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Go suck Barack Obama's socialist dick you overgrown cunt.
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When Ben turned the wheel, he ended up off the island about a year into the future. But when Locke turned the wheel, he ended up off the island 3 years into the future. Oh, those vile vortices can be pretty unstable.
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is the gal in the picture with faraday the same lady who was watching Jack at the bar? Is she a widmore operative perhaps, or am I imagining things....
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I'm just sayin'
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As reticent as I am to keep this going, we are not now "caught in the middle". We WERE caught in the middle, but we managed to find our bearings and right the ship. We defeated Iran's attempts at controlling Iraq,we managed to find common ground with the Sunni, disarm the Shia death squads, and they just had another round of successful and peaceful free elections in Iraq weeks ago, and the violence has plummeted precipitously. More people die in California then Iraq.
But as for blaming Bush for all the deaths, just as a thought experiment, why wouldnt you blame the Iranian government for meddling? For handing over IED technology to kill American soliders and Iraqi civilians? For arming and training the Sadrist Shia death squads to go and kill Sunnis and uncooperative Shia? Why wouldnt you blame the Sunnis who killed hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shia for doing the same thing after Saddam was removed? Why wouldnt you blame foreign Al Qaeda fighters for coming into Iraq and blowing up markets, homes, and innocent civilians? The overwhelming majority of Iraqis were killed by these three groups, not by American bullets or bombs. The violence and chaos in Iraq was caused by these three groups, not by American soldiers. Certainly we ripped the lid off the whole thing and created the opportunity for chaos, but cant you find it in you, somewhere, anywhere, to actually blame the MURDERERS for killing? They have free will, and they CHOSE to kill, maim, and murder innocent civilians? Doesnt that piss you off just the tiniest bit? Go ahead and say it out loud, see how it feels: "I blame Al Qaeda for murdering thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. I blame Iran for fomenting a civil war and enabling the murder of thousands of innocent civilians." It feels kinda good. -
With all this political shit. Talk about lazers and fuckin super hero hard ons and Abba-Dabba Ding-Dong getting popped before Locke got him back afte rthat exchange at the hospital.
Go to the Baleback room with that shit you fucks. Fuck Kate too, I hope she gets killed off. Her AND Juliet.
I think it's interesting that the plane actually crashed on the island and that it appears they are on the 2nd smaller island at the Hydra. Odd. Wonder what it was like during the Dharma days. -
do you guys think that after ben was done snooping on locke, he had any encounter with walt? and do you guys think it's interesting that while walt is under the impression that michael is still on the island, he's not in a huge hurry to get back there, not wanting to save him. like he wants the info, but maybe his life is better without his dad.
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Tom knew where WAAAALT was and they didn't seem to show any interest in him before.
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It definitely felt to me like they are looking to part with Walt. Bit of a cameo, but no real plans to bring him back to the island or back in the thick of things.
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I think Walt believes that his Dad is "safe" (he may accept that his Dad is up to something dangerous, but not in danger and certianly not dead) and is willing to let him do his thing. He has to see his Dad as well-intended but very troubled at this point, I'd think. If Walt was led to believe that his Dad was in danger and that he could do something about it, he'd do that something.
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That Walt growing up fast cut off his storyline. They still could go back into it, but man, if they do not, I'd hope for D&C do an explanation of everything after the series ends.
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Do we have any evidence that Ben knew there was anyone other than Widmore people on the freighter when he effectively blew it up?
I love the debate on whether or not to like Ben.
Someone once asked John Cleese why people loved Basil Fawlty, considering what an awful human being he was. His answer was "He makes people laugh. You can't hate someone that makes you laugh."
Ben is like that. He entertains us and we can't truly hate him. Not yet, anyway. He's too clever, too smart, too funny. But he is NOT a good guy. Killing all the people on the frighter, not giving a crap about anyone on the plane. The ONLY possibly redeeming quality is if Ben is fighting to save the world and recognizes that a few sacrifices are going to be made. -
Those tens of thousands of innocents were killed by american bombs. No different than flying a couple of planes into two buildings.
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Just watched it again. Ben killed Locke after he got the necessary information - Eloise Hawkins. Locke says that Eloise can get them back to the island. Ben had no idea how to get back to the island. If he did, Ben would have spent the last 3 years trying to get back to the island instead of the last 3 years picking off Widmore's people with Sayid for shits and giggles (i.e. revenge). But once Locke tells this to Ben, he finds this Eloise, learns how to get back to the island, then finds Jack and tells them how they must all go back at the funeral parlor. Ben did not know that until he talked to Eloise. And he learned about her from Locke. Ben thought he was banished from the island, but after finding about Eloise he knows now how he could get back and reclaim leadership of the Others. Keep thinking about this and it all starts to make sense.
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It has been theorized that Eloise works for Widmore so Ben pretended that he did to. I don't think this theory is necessary. Eloise wants the oceanic 6 back on the island for the same reason that Widmore, and every other person in the know does (but we do not). Something bad will happen if they are not there. So whatever she thinks of Ben (and it was implied that she doesn't think much of him), she knows that the 6 must return regardless.
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And it made sense 18 hours ago when I first posted it. : )
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Actually by the way that Walt asked Locke about his Dad and then again to go out of his way to visit Hurley and ask him about his Father and even acted sad that none of the OC 6 had sought him out kind of told me that he is very curious about his Dad and that eventually (probably season when there won't be a growth issue) he will probably try to come back to the island. I mean Desmond & Aaron still have to return so my guess is that Walt will be back to the island.
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I had not considered that fact that Ben had 3 years to confront Jack about returning of the island, but he didn't bother talking to any of the Oceanic 6 at all except for Sayid. This implies that he needed to talk to Eloise first and that he didn't know who or where she was. This information changes everything for Ben.
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like all of the potential Big Bads want the same thing, the 06 back on the island. But this episode shows a difference. Ben was content, as said above, to pick off Widmore people until he learned it was possible for HIM to go back. Then he used the 06 to get himself back.
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When Ben turned the wheel and landed in Tunisia, it was 3 years ago off the island. When Locke turned the wheel, it's was 3 years later off the island. During those 3 years, Sayid got married, buried his wife, worked for Ben, Jack and Kate got engaged and broke up, Aaron aged, Hurley went back in the nuthouse, Desmond and Penny had a kid, Sun had a kid and bought the company, etc...Four days may have only passed on the island, but 3 years had gone by in everyone's life off the island. That's why Ben ended up in time when he did and Locke ended up in time when he did and arrived 3 years later in everyone's lives off island.
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craziness, interesting plot holes you guys pointed out, They can all be explained a few throw away lines and mentions from the characters. I think the writers are pretty damn on top of shit. I can't remember digging a show so much.
316'ers- The new Losties
815'ers-The losties
Others in Dharma days-Hostiles.
Others in present- The others.
I'm getting a bit jumbled help me out here
The people from the main land hired by the others posing as Dharma----Other others
sheesh -
That doesn't compute for me that Eloise would also be a rival. If she was she never would have given out information to him and in front of him. In earlyer scenes it looked like they were working together.
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Locke didn't arrive 3 years after Ben, he arrived two years after Ben, and three years after the Oceanic 6. When Ben turned the fdw he ended up in Tunisia. Sayid had already married Nadia and she had been murdered. Ben confronted Sayid and they started working together for two years. Then, Locke shows up. So even though Locke turned the FDW about 6 days after Ben, Locke shows up off the island three years in the future while Ben only shows up one year into the future.
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Evidently, using the FDW is unpredictable. I recall Ben himself had to ask at the Tunisian hotel what year it was.
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Simple answer: The island is hopping about in time like Hawking says, therefore Ben... and later Locke... could have ended up anytime, this is just how it happened and events unfold based on that randomness.
Strange answer: The island has a plan and it puts them when it wants them based on that plan. There is little to supportthis, but I can think of nothing to refute this. However, if Sun is indeed in a different time than Jack, Kate and Hurly, then I will strongly suspect this second theory as being the case. -
"Complete plot device to stretch out the "mystery" of who was in the coffin."The name Jeremy Bentham wasn't even spoken on the show until the episode that the coffin mystery was revealed. It was written in the newspaper but that wasn't meant to be seen by the audience, just some people had good zooming filters in photoshop. How can you say that the name only served a "who's in the coffin" mystery?
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Feb 26, 2009 5:11:53 PM CST
This episode was great, but Damages was fucking amazing!...
by danielkurland
Oh my God. What a phenomenal episode.
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Just a thought... If the big bads know that the losties were back in the 70's & 80's, then they are all going to want them back on this island as they know that the losties are required in the past... Time is set with no change... I've not seen this episode yet (stuck in the UK)... but it sounds like a doozy..
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So let me get this straight. When the Democrats were saying the exact same things well before Bush was elected, it was the truth. But when Bush says it later, it is a lie he invented then and there? How does that remotely make sense?Bush was a terrible President, but he didn't lie to start the war.Clinton, who was also a terrible President, bombed 4 countries without authorization. Immediately after 9/11, the UN security council passed a new resolution against Iraq because Saddam was praising the terrorists. They told him to comply immediately or else. Many leaders assumed Iraq was involved, and were pushing for immediate action. Bush actually urged caution and said he didn't want to rush into war. He wanted to take time to find out exactly who was responsible. He pushed for diplomacy in Iraq for another two years.Iraq violated over 75 UN security resolutions, including the 1991 cease-fire that said if they didn't completely cooperate, the UN was authorized to use force again.Saddam had been antagonizing Iran, calling for the "destruction" of Israel, and calling for people to attack the US. He directly funded terrorism, and also called for the genocide of Kurds. He cut power and water off from cities, and tried to keep shipments of food out of cities as well. He had something like 38 palaces personally, while he was trying to starve his population. Iraq has a population of around 30 million if I recall. Those are 30 million human beings.I'm a former Marine, and while I never saw combat, I have friends who have served over there. They talk about how the country is turning around. How happy the people are that Saddam was deposed. You regurgitate partisan BS rhetoric that doesn't help anyone.The best thing I can say about Bush, is that he didn't feel his enemies were in Washington. The great threat in this country today is partisan bickering. If you assume that only party is infallible, and the other is inherently evil, then you're a brainwashed idiot. We're letting the media sell us complete fiction because it supports a party, not political ideas, but a party.Actual Liberals who care about ideals should be outraged that we don't have fair journalism. We should be outraged that Obama is pushing for torture in Afghanistan, and Gates said he wants to push torture further than Bush did. Obama signed off on a domestic spy package, and handed immunity to telcos who spy on us.And you say Bush is responsible for unregulated stimulus packages that were abused, but a Democrat controlled Congress refused to do anything about the years of warning signs that banks were abusing the system. A Democrat controlled congress fought both Obama and Bush on their plan to demand higher fuel economy in return for a hand-out to Detroit. The Democrat controlled congress instead said Detroit has 14 years to improve fuel economy, but they can ask to be let out of that requirement in 14 years if they feel like it. A Democrat controlled congress was supposed to put a warrant on stocks for the companies we bailed out, but instead let the rich get richer at tax payer's expenses. A Democrat controlled congress added hundreds of pages of pork to what Bush initially suggested as 3 page stimulus package.McCain, Bush, and Obama have all pushed for corporate welfare, and they are all wrong.
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Remember Ben's line to the woman holding Lockes body in deep freeze ? It's hardly beyond the wit of Ben to include some of his "operatives" in the flight, and for that matter Widmore either.
So WHO is Ceasar working for ? And will there be other "surprises" amongst the 316 survivors ? (yes)
Eloise has the same outward motivations as Widmore and Ben. The Islands survival. I'd be inclined to believe Eloise's altruism more than those two TBH.
And lets not forget that a CLEAR reference was made to the rather large Hydrogen Bomb presumably still lurking somewhere underground. That there is what you would call a "game changer" for any coming war.
BTW returning to the Politics for a second, Iran still has enormous sway over Iraq as the Green Zone Government is packed with Shia Politicians sympathetic to the Iranian regime. While on the ground the Militias (of whom Al-Sadr is but the most powerfull) have certainly not disbanded and are now very well financed thanks to "security agreements" struck during the surge. (Think they will buy cookies with that cash ?) Not forgetting the incredibly influential Shia Religious leader Grand Ayatollah Al Sistani who is also unquestionably of Iranian sympathies despite having some doctrinal disputes with Iranian clerics.
If the idea of the IRaq Invasion was to install an almost defacto puppet Iranian regime then "Mission Accomplished" as the whip hand is undisputedly in the hands of the Shia.
And Prisoners are ALREADY being prepared and indeed realeased from Gitmo right now. It won't be a sudden "flood" of them being repatriated etc. but a gradual process of negotiation with the countries involved and a preperation of the Legal framework for those who cannot.
Finishing the Political stuff it must be pointed out that the the CIA, NSA etc. are not the executive. Theirs is a subordinate role and the supply of intelligence PARTICULARLY humint is not a direct order but information to be used (and sometimes abused) by their Political masters. It is NEVER context free or 100% definitive and it's pretty widely known that humint from the middle east in recent times has always been sketchy at best. The interpretation of that "raw" intelligence is where the Politicians interposed themselves in the run up to Iraq and to simply say the intelligence was "a slam dunk", uniform or HAD to be acted on is simply to not understand how the process works. -
Apology accepted. You're really a softie under that ToughGuy exterior, huh? I don't curse - anybody can - it forces you to be more creative when you do not rely on the same 7 verbs and nouns, or variations of same. I wish I had a Lost group too!
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Cant believe I havent heard of that theory or thought of it myself that was mentioned above. Two Bens and Widmores existing in our "present" at the same time. It could explain so much. Could explain a lot of Bens "lies". For example when Jack asked Ben if he knew Locke killed himself and he said no he didnt. Maybe that Ben hadnt killed John yet.
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Go back and read my post from 1:03am this morning. That is all.
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Has anyone put forward the theory that Ben killed Locke because he had no further use for him? It seems to me that Ben tried to prevent Locke from killing himself to get more info out of him. If he just wanted Locke dead, or he knew that Locke had to die, why not just let him finish hanging himself? Some have said it is because suicide is not a pure death, but this is Ben we're talking about. The look in Ben's eyes when Locke told him about Eloise -- how to get back to the island -- said a lot. I do not believe it is coincidence that Ben killed him right after getting that info. Also, we have seen hints that the Ben/Eloise relationship may not be very cordial.
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Seems to be something the writers like to use when someone is lying about their identity, or suspected of it.
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Could Locke have sent Abaddon to the past, so that he could tell Locke to go on the Walk-about? Abaddon admitted that his job is to get people do do what they're supposed to do. So . . .Locke was supposed to go on the Walk-about, he knew that, and therefore told Abaddon that when he went back in time, to find the young Locke? Of course this would have needed to happen before Ben shot him . . .or not??
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And to add to above post ... Could Locke have sent Walt back to when he was lying in the pit after Ben shot him, and told Walt to say what he said? So maybe Walk in that scene last season wasn't a figment of the island, or the smoke monster, but actually a time-traveling kid?
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"Ain't It Cool Politics" a second revenue stream for you and Yoko.
Same shitty talkback format with no edit controls. More profitable links to political books/movies on Amazon.
Where else on the net are you going to get such a flametastic cross section of douchebaggery, I mean humanity discussing or screaming like batshit lunatics about the issues of the day. Think about it. Ad revenue from Fox News and MSNBC advertising on your site.
Make it so. -
Stop posting links to porn on here. I love porn but this is not the place for it.
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Somewhere I think I remember someone saying that once you use the donkey wheel to get off the island, you can't get back. Unless perhaps, you can if you're dead, and then the island will resurrect you. Is this what happened to Christian Shepard?
Thoughts? -
... in regard to your Spartan question in the last TB, "yes."
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maybe Christian was actually murdered, and so Locke had to be murdered as well. or his suicide wouldn't have ended up effective anyway, a la michael trying and failing to kill himself before the island was ready for him to go.
it doesn't follow that turning the donkey wheel means you can only get back as a dead guy, because ben turned it and he's back. unless there really are two bens running around and the one that went back isn't the one that turned the wheel. but that's just getting crazy.
i definitely had the impression that eloise hawking had not just met ben recently. but the bit about jin being alive maybe causing him to kill locke.....i don't know, considering how firmly entrenched in dharma jin's character seemed to be at the end of 316, maybe jin set some things in motion at dharma that impacted ben in some unknown way?
ah, speculation... -
As far as I recall, when Sawyer et al jumped into the future version of their camp there were 2 longboats lying there with Ajira water bottles, one of which (boats) they stole.
The 2nd then came after them with guns.
Indicates to me that Locke convinces the new lot to row across to the main island and that it's Locke who's actually shooting at our guys
Personally I'm liking this new sense of writers-actually-knowing-what-they're doing that Lost has this season
PS IMHO Ben killed Locke because he is jealous and still wants to be Jacob's special little boy. Gotta love that crazy little bastard -
... was a good "change-up," in my opinion. Using captions that listed the locations (all named in recognition of angels, saints and goddesses) was a nice, direct way of moving Locke from one location to another. Since it's an old device (and sometimes used as a cop-out), I wouldn't want to see too many more episodes use the captions... but thought it worked well yesterday evening.
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And I missed it! What's happening across the pond, mate? Some thoughts:
Ok - where's Sayid and Sun? We're assuming Sun is the other woman with Frank, right? I too was disappointed with the lack of Locke referring to himself as Bentham around the O6. I thought we might see more - he'd make a point of calling himself that. Especially with Walt. Maybe we are to assume it happened off-screen: small nit-pick, I know. It makes no sense for Locke NOT to be embalmed, Brody. Who doesn't do that these days? And his fancy suit might not have a back on it. Don't undertakers just use cut-out suits for dead bodies anyway? Just end the political talk now, please! I'm very outspoken myself on politics and religion, but I know my time and place! This is LOST time! -
Hobo and I are the resident State grads around here. Talk shifts to B-ball from time to time, raising the ire of the other Lost devotees - just like the political talk right now ticks me off!
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... interesting point about embalming. Could all the death-obit-viewing events have occured in less than 2 days? If so, then Locke wouldn't need to have been embalmed--- which is in line with at least a couple different religious practices. The refrigeration would explain the body subsequently being kept in a somewhat suspended state, of course. Hmmmm. It's almost as if Ben and company have done such a thing before now...
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the current white house situation? Welcome Back Carter. welcome back, welcome back, wellllcome back! (as in jimmy c.)
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... do you plan to let go of your obsession go at any point soon? Many of us would receive it as courteous. Besides, you're more effective at offering your insight on "Lost" than giving AICN pseudo-political wise cracks. Especially when they aren't very wise.
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... but I hope you get the point.
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i heard that one on the radio today. ok, back to lost.
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ben pulled an anton chigurh on bentham. that reminded me of when bardems character chocked out the deputy in the police station. i havent read back every single post on this tb yet so pardon me if this has already been pointed out.
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And so does Ben!
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I hate to say it but it reminded me of when Princess Leia choked Jabba the Hutt. I liked your wise crack, but back to Lost!
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Feb 26, 2009 10:50:48 PM CST
Fionnula Flanagan says that Mrs. Eloise Hawking
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
is an Alien http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/2009/02/is-losts-mrs-hawking-from-another.html
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Just like Locke. That's why he doesn't age now.
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Actor Interviews with Walt & Ben, Videos & more.
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He mentions that he was the person who tells Locke to go on the Walkabout. Has anyone re-watched 1x04, and seen if the same actor is used? It seems I would have noticed it at the time, being a Wire fan, but it also seems they wouldn't have mentioned a fact that could be so easily checked if it wasn't true (could have just as easily said Abbadon did something else influential that was off screen). Anyone have information on this?
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Ben killed Charlie Hume and both Desmond & Penny return to the island for vengence?
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but not in the episode "Walkabout". It was in "Cabin Fever".
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and not in a good way. Seriously, I don't even watch the show any more, but the mindfuck dialogue going on in these talkbacks doesn't exactly make me want to tune back in to the show. And this is coming from someone who enjoys a good challenge from David Lynch. It's not a fun kind of confusion. Years from now, when the show has wrapped and documentaries are made about the phenomenon Lost has become, the writers will own up to the fact that the show's story 'got away from them', 'spiraled out of control', 'there was no simple way to wrap everything up, so we had to take some fantasy oriented shortcuts', etc. I guarantee it.
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That is great. Man though, had he briefly been in Walkabout somewhere, that'd really be crazy, unbelievable foresight...
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He told Locke to go on his Walkabout last season I believe that it the third to the last episode which was a big Locke flashback. It showed Locke in the Hospital and Abbadon wheeling Locke around acting like he was a worker there and telling him to go on a Walkabout.
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They have always had the basic plot points of the series set. Nothing is out of control.
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"I am the Monarch of the Sea!..."...That's not a Season 1 reference.
Ya didn't ask...but here's my time line theory.
Sun, Lapidus & Sayid hop in the outrigger in 2007, the night 316 crashes. They head to the main island.
The arrive in the morning and head out into the island looking for 1 their old camp...thinking everyone would still be there waiting for them. They are not. They decide to keep looking for them...but come up empty...as they are "digging in the wrong YEAR"...I AM the Monarch of the Sea!
That morning...Some Others (Not 70's Dharmites, like Jin did with Kate, Hurley & Jack) invade the 316 crash site...some 316 red shirts get killed in the process...Suddenly Locke finds himself 'in a suit on the island, surrounded by people who wanted to hurt him'. (Nice future dreams, Walter!) Locke asks to speak with Richard Alpert...One of the Others says "Where's our 3rd outrigger?"...Ceasar tells them that is disappeared in the nite...and two of their people are missing. Some Others jump in a second outrigger and begin paddling for the main island.
meanwhile...Back on the main island...Sawyer, Locke, Juliet, Miles, Charlotte, and Daniel are on the beach at the old Lostie camp...having flashed to the present time in 2007. They find an outrigger, with an Ajira water bottle in it. It's Sun, Sayid's & Lapidus's outrigger. They decide to take it to the other side of the island and find the Orchid station ("The Little Prince")...They paddle feverishly with nosebleeds...but are soon caught by the angry Others who just left the Hydra island and the 316 folk...they begin firing upon there outrigger...when suddenly...there is a blinding white flash...and the outrigger they were chasing has suddenly...and mysteriously vanished.
back on Hydra...Locke has convinced the rest of the angry Others that is their LEADER...and if they just take himself (and Ben) to see Richard...all will be explained. The Hydra Others agree...because they know Ben...(thus, why Locke wont be able to just KILL the injured Ben for what he did). They load ben & Locke up for a pow wow with Alpert.
Meanwhile...thinking the Losties may have moved back to the caves...Sun, Sayid and Lapidus stumble upon Rose, bernard & Vincent...They are hiding out there...suffering from the same blinding flashes...but don't realize they are in a different time period every time...due to the lack of interactivity with any outside influences...But Rose is having nose bleeds....cancer returning? Rose & bernard explain they went back to the beach camp for supplies...but it was gone a few days back. Sun tells them...it's there now...all deserted...and in disrepair. Sayid tells Rose & Bernard it 2007...
bernard says..."That's impossible...You just left 3 days ago..." Suddenly...a blinding white flash and high screeching noise...and Rose, bernard & Vincent disapper before Sun, Frank & Sayid's eyes.
[POOM] -
I see no signs of a disastrous mess coming, plot-wise, anytime soon. All is under control.
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Flashes are done. The wheel's been fixed.
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You guys check out the 2nd LOST TB this week? Evangeline to ditch LOST?
Ugh, what utter garbage. -
The flashes in my theory have already happened. They are 'flashback flashes'...from "The Little Prince"...but thanks for playing.
PS...Did Darlton tell you specifically the flashes are done for good on LOST? I missed that memo.
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when locke went back to recruit the O6 after fixing FDW, why the fuck did he not tell jack, sayid, hurley, kate that the island was time-skipping, he was travelling into future and past? he gave up recruiting them without even telling them the most interesting, revealing thing about the place he's trying to coax them back toward? how long does he think he can cryptically rely on other people's faith? i really love locke, but as we've seen, off-island he's really a bumbling fool. i wish he could work the strength he has gained in his character into his personality consistently and not be used as a tool for other's gains. i have been a firm believer that locke is the central hero of this story, i just wanna see him step his game up, esp now that he is resurrected. is his reture from the dead how a person becomes immortal on the island? is this how richard appears eternally youthful? cuz i don't think locke is a spectre the way i think christian is. BTW, i'm rewatching season 1 a lil bit, appreciating walt, locke, smokey, island shit with the present knowledge i currently have. i haven't rewatched for a while, and i'm having the added pleasure of rewatching with my brother and talking about crazy lost scheisse with him :) i'm much happier than i would be if i was studying.
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not sure why locke wouldn't mention all that extra crap, but over the duration LOST isn't exactly a show prone to long exposition... they leave it to us to figure out.
I'm pretty sure Locke will be the reincarnation (i guess) of jacob/christian. The big thing I'm waiting for next week is to find out if they're all in the same time period. Perhaps Locke encouraged young ben? who knows? "thats lost!" =P -
After the political shit yesterday I left after my last post and am only up until about 4:15 yesterday in my reading. So forgive me if I'm stealing someone else's thought.
Eloise is a mystery to me. I know we saw her with the H bomb previously...at least we assume they are the same person...so she'd have to be with Widdy, right? Then why would she help Ben, as Dapper asked yesterday.
When I look for answers I look to previous themes. Is it a con? Is someone running? Is it a Daddy issue? Mythology?
Hmmmmmm....where could she fit in mythologically speaking. Someone that knew everything and took no sides.
Sounds like an Oracle to me.
There were oracles during the time of (sorry guys) the gods, most notibly the Oracle of Delphi...a female who (of course) operated in a temple. An oracle is a person or agency considered to be a source of wise counsel or prophetic opinion; an infallible authority, usually spiritual in nature. It may also be a revealed prediction or precognition of the future, from deities, that is spoken through another object or life-form.
Sound familiar?
One more thing. The temple the Oracle of Delphi "operated" in was changed to a center for the worship of Apollo during the classical period of Greece.
I'm just sayin' -
Where these episodes originally intended to be the other way round? Bentham and then 316?
It changes the feel quite a lot, although some of the beats don't quite make sense. There would be no mystery regarding John's suicide note, which appears to be a driving force for much of 316. Likewise the explanation on Ben having proof that Jin is alive.
However the scene in which Ben halts the car to tell them how he has been looking out for them resonates more when you know he brutally strangled John.
Perhaps they were re-edited slightly, but this order seems to make a lot more sense.
Any podcasts listeners know which other two episodes Darlton said they swapped around for dramatic effect, way back near the start? First two episodes of Season 2?
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Why would that get them to the island? That's an incredibly dangerous and unpredictable scenario.
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People. It's a magical healing island. Does it matter if he was embalmed or not? Sheesh.
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Obviously you listened to the podcast and heard Darlton say these last two episdoes were interchangeable so why are you asking the question?
I'm guessing the other interchangeable ones were The Other 48 days and Collision but you may be right baout the first two episdoes that season. -
I had thought the name had more prominence in the episode, but if what you're staying is true, it makes my point even more valid. Some random pseudonym on a fake passport is not going to be recognized by anyone, and sure enough, Jack picked it out of the paper in a 50-word obituary.
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Bad wording, your right, I had heard the chat about them swapping the eps, I meant more that on reflection it didn't seem to make much sense to interchange them so was wondering why they would planned it as such.
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Yeah I'm not sure what the intent would have been to have 316 come after Bentham either. The two episodes didn't really have anything to do with each other anyway, other than both were return trips to the island but in two different times.
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Never thought i'd say this but "Go Blue!"
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This will debunked immediately I'm sure but what the hell, I'm bored. Considering this "war" that is coming according to Widmore, what if Locke tells Jack about this at some point in the future, and it's actually future Jack that travels back to ask Ana Lucia about building an army? Debunk away.
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I should do this more often.
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Between that and 'oh, let's have Ben steal Locke's thunder... AGAIN' it was a disappointing ep. Still, everything else with Widmore, Abaddon and Locke was really good.
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Come now. Worse than Parkman from Zeroes? Or anyone else from that show?
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Like they say.. only dumb Heroes plots.
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Remember last season when the O6 wouldn't call Locke "Locke" for dramatic purposes? Yeah, it was stupid then, and even more stupid now.
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And I'm no fan. Worst on TV right now? I would say ... Duckshoot's character on Dollhouse. SO FAR. (I'm not passing judgment just yet) I don't hate Heroes' characters. I hate the choices that have been written FOR them. And it just keeps getting worse and worse. And I used to be an apologist for that show. It's impossible now. But as far as the characters go on that show, I'd say the Speeding Jerry's Kid is my least favorite. On Lost, it's hard to say. But Kate is the one that annoys me more often than the others. But bad? I just can't say that. I can't stand her in the sense that in real life I'd put up with her for about 5 seconds. But that doesn't mean she's badly written. It just means it's a character I wouldn't like if she were real.
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Find a new place to squat.
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I think most of the Oceanic remainder think Locke is a crazy, sad old man with delusions of grandeur already. Throw in time travel tales and I think it would be even more repellent. I think he was smart not to mention any of the time shifts.
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Ben showed up just as Locke was about to kill himself. Could it be that Ben knew he was going to kill himself, or was this just one of those 'things that happen on tv'?
Anyway, lets assume it was coincidence when he showed up. Ben talks Locke out of suicide, for whatever reasons, most likely becuase he needs him, or possibly he actually does care about the island and thinks Locke needs to live for the island.
Once Locke tells Ben that he's going to see Eloise, its then that Ben realizes what he's done. He's interfered with what was supposed to happen. Locke was supposed to kill himself, not live and go see Eloise. But Ben didn't let nature take its course. He realized that he needed to let Locke commit suicide and so he killed him to make up for his mistake.
Possibly!!??? -
Actually when I was rewatching Bentham last night to do a review over at Room 23 I did notice that there were a number of things that would have changed with the different viewing scedule. Somethings would have been revealed sooner and less of a mystery and somethings would have been a mystery for longer. Not a lot of changes, just different emphasis on things.
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yeah, they think he's a crazy old man, but they know crazy shit happened. they saw the fucking island disappear with their own eyes. you don't think they wanna know what's up with that? i think they would be at least intrigued if john tried to explain the nature of them jumping through time. however, we all know lost characters often don't do things people would do in real life
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You don't think Whidmore would let the Oceanic 6 get back on the island without an inside man?
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"Bentham" ran 5 minutes long...and the "Mars" guys couldn't shave 5 minutes out of their episode the night "316" air...but they could the next week (this past Wednesday). Wow...sounds like time travel!
I blame "Life on Mars". But I'm happy for the flip-flop. Fuck linear storytelling! -
Presumably, he made his case to Kate but they wisely did not show it.
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I can see that, good theory. Except it begs the question of why Whidmore just couldn't have got on the plane himself, maybe in disguise? I've heard some theories that he's in cahoots with Eloise, but if that's the case, then couldn't he just hope on the next plane / freight and go to the island himself? Something tells me its not that easy for him to get to the Island
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Eldawg, that last sentence raised an eyebrow. Something tells me its not that easy for him to get to the Island.
We all noticed the similarities between flights 815 and 316. One I didn't hear mentioned was that on 815 Charlie was in the bathroom and on 316 Ben went to the bathroom just beofre the "event".
There are also references to who should or should not be there during the course of the show. Many have died, and speculation has been that they shouldn't have been there in the first place.
So did Charlie have to die? And if we are talking paralells, does that also mean Ben has to die? He wasn't supposed to be able to come back according to what he said when he conned Locke out of turning the FDW.
And once he gets back, will Ben have to pull the biggest con of all....conning death?
Just throwing it out there. -
LOL. Hero's isn't worthy of eating the corn out of Lost's shit ...
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I am reasonably certain that Ben talked John away from the noose because he thought John was the way back to the island. Ben wanted to con Locke into taking him back. Once the way back was revealed to be someone else, Ben determined... for whatever reason... that John would be more useful dead than alive.
There was definiately a lightbulb over Ben's head regarding Jin's ring. My best guess is that he finally found his leverage on Sun. Simple as that. -
Truly.
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Yeah they would be interested, maybe, but ready to hop on a plane and go back? I think we have to remember that it's been 3 YEARS since they were on the island. They probably don't give a shit what is happening there anymore and just want to be left alone and move on wit their lives. The only one with any attachment to anyone on the island is Kate and she's moved on or at least had.
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right...here we go
if u are killed off the Island by someone who was once an inhabitant of it then u can be resurrected when u land back on the island again.....
the island is course correcting time and making sure that ur life ends where it is supposed to end.... Ben killed Locke, but Ben should never have been off the island and neither should have Locke, so when thye come back to the island the island fixes the mistake of his death and lets them live to fulfil thier destiny..
which means, using my thoery, Christian Shepard was killed by someone who shouldnt have been off the island...the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Charles Widmore..he manipulated Locke to go the island and why not Jack and a whole host others...this may have been a msg to him from Jacob when he was younger, he gave him a list of people to send to the island as a way for him to get back eventually after Bens betrayl
bit of a weird theory but worth a shot...
any thoughts, feel free to shoot it down....always love a good Lost debate
ps...all is good over here BIg E, got myself a part time teaching post until the school year ends so im a busy guy, but love it....good times all round...hope all is going well with ur good self -
So if someone is killed off-island by someone who shouldn't be off the island ... maybe if Ben did do in Penny, Desmond could bring her back? That is the one thing he'd return to the island for! things are good here too, MP, just as busy as could be, but that's a good problem to have!
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Always good to read your stuff. Wish I could argue against that theory, but it seems damned sound.
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I think that's been brought up before, at least the mention of the "gods" theory - the island exists in the time of the ancient gods. With the Temple and all the gigantic statue ... why not? But Eloise as an oracle - hmmm - makes sense. Sort of.
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.. and simply could not. Could make for a great moment to be seen later. I dread and cannot wait to see the scene that explains Ben's bloody state.
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Though I'm grateful for the assist, I just can't root for blue! I was in on the embalming debate. It makes no difference to me - magic island healed him - but I was more interested in what his suit might be like if he's lying in a coffin. Did Ben kill Locke knowing he'd be brought back to life? I'm sure that's what he'll tell Locke the next time they speak on the island. "I had to - I knew the island would bring you back." And I might believe him. Killing Locke might have been part of the big plan.
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Ben's line "I'm going to miss you, John" suggests he did not know Locke would be resurrected. I think that is a BIG DEAL even for folks like Ben. Rapid healing? Sure thing. Locke's legs? Great. Richard never aging? Awesome. But a full-on back from the dead? I suspect that Ben will be surprised... and then lie and say he knew.
Or maybe not. -
I think Ben is going to shit himself when he sees Locke alive and well. On another front, anybody think Abaddon's kilelrm ight be Sayid? Seems plausible to me.
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I apologize. I don't know what came over me? That win could put the Wolverats in the tourney too which blows.
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Ben admitted to it, or do I misremember? Granted, Ben's a liar, but I don't see what Ben has to gain by saying he did when he didn't.
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Is he Jacob...???? was Ben trying to kill him all this time so he could have the island to himself, Locke has to go through all these trails and tribulations to become Jacob in the future, then he goes back to the past and is jacob through all that happens in the island..
lets not remember the only thing Jacob has ever said in this show is 'help me' to Locke...could he be talking to himself..not sure but the sooner we get more Jacob info the better.... -
Yes. Why? Because for all your knocking of Parkman and the Heroes characters, the choices they make are based on who they are. And consistent. Like Peter hugging family members who then betray him - because, despite it all, he loves them. That's consistent. Whereas Kate? In the flash-forwards she's protective of Aaron... then prepared to go to jail and risk others taking him into foster care... then she's living with Jack... then she's doing favours for Sawyer, not trusting Jack... then she kicks Jack out for being angry that she didn't tell him the truth... then she's being a numb woman to Locke... and then she yells at Jack about Locke seeing her. None of that adds up. Everyone else has a consistent flash-forward, but hers is just whatever crap they felt like on any particular day.
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I've often wondered if we would get an explanation for that beyond "destiny". Now, as unsatisfying as "destiny" would be in many ways, it leaves a lot of room for personal interpretations and such.An explanation, on the otherhand, becomes definate and if it's a crappy explanation then it could torpedo the whole thing.It's a gamble. I *hope* they do gamble and win, but I'll understand if they hedge their bets.
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At this stage, Locke's special because he told Richard that he was their Leader in the future... and thus Richard then endeavoured to make Locke the Leader. In other words, Locke was never special. The Island healed him just so he could time-travel.
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Locke always appeared to Richard in 1954. As a man who could walk. So his Island events were pre-determined so that he would be able to walk when he went through time.
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Certainly a possibility, yes.
But a few things stand out as unique in regards to John.
Simply being in that right place at the right time and making a bigger deal of it than it is is definately a possibility. A lot still hinges on how big a deal his resurection turns out to be. If it is something the island does often, or a very special thing it does rarely.We will see. -
True. I think we'll have to wait and see if anyone actually touches him. He took a Mango, but he hasn't touched any humans yet.
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"I think we'll have to wait and see if anyone actually touches him." Exactly... Christian held a torch that provided light to John in a dark tunnel. Now, sure, the torch may not have been real, but the *light* was. Hardly solid evidence, but if the island is magic so might be the mangoes, so it's not totally outside the realm of LOST-physics.That being said, I think Locke is corporeal,
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I felt fine about the return of John Locke. I don't feel like an explanation to his resurrection is even necessary. I hope they just get weirder and weirder until the end, convolute the crap out of it until it absolutely makes no sense. Just kidding. They may be relying on our speculations to end this gig. I like when I watch with my girl and she gets frustrated because she needs logical tangible answers, and freaks. No matter how many times the set up happens she gets freaky, I love it, it's the best!
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I don't really need an explanation, personally. I can accept "magic island did it" pretty well, for now. What I want to know is how *significant* it is.
Has anyone else been brought back to life? Did it resurrect him because he is special or did he just perform, knowingly or not, the correct actions to trigger a resurrection process that anyone with the right know-how or luck could accomplish. That sort of thing. -
Ben knew that Locke would be Resurrected otherwise he wouldn't have gone through the doubting Thomas story with Jack. And even if he didn't know then he certainly did soon after when he first visited Eloise otherwise he would not have carted Lockes body around.
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"I'm going to miss you, John" was probably him being sarcastic yet again.
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Hey - I went back today and looked at some of my old r23 posts. In one of them I called Locke a doubting Thomas. Thought that was pretty funny considering what we've seen this season.
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Im going to miss him, if he really did died. His inexplicability was fun.
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is NOT dead? That we'll see Peg Bundy again?
I have a feeling Ben will pretend to be 'following' John the rest of the show...until John gets 'his work' done on the island. And Helen will get wheeled out of 'the box' by Ben on the island, ala Cooper...And Ben will use her as leverage to take John's place at the top of the Other's heap.
'Helen' will beg Locke not to trust Ben...that she's been lying to John all this time...Her name isn't 'Helen'...it's Janet...and she was working for Cooper...She split the $$$ Locke helped Cooper steal. She was never 'in love' with him...she was 'playing a role'.
"Seeing you get down on your knee and proposing to me...It almost broke my heart to be conning you all that time. Let him kill me, John...I'm not worth it. I realize now you ARE special...Don't step down and be banished from the island!"
John chooses his love for Helen/Janet...and steps down...and leaves the island with her....Never to return. He gives up the island...being the 'leader' he always wanted to be...for love.
Ben smiles smugly after John is exiled. Only to be stabbed in the back by Desmond....For killing Penny. -
...out of impaitence and convinence. Like, "Thanks for putting the pieces together, so I'm going to kill you now so I don't have to drag you kicking and screaming and fucking this thing up while we get everyone back together. See you back on the island."
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Feb 27, 2009 10:50:34 PM CST
I doubt that Locke would leave the island for Peggy Bundy
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
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I mentioned this in my thoughts over at Room 23, but I got to thinking about hope alike Abbadon & Richard are. Both have been trying to groom Locke for something. If Richard is ageless or immortal (which is still under debate) could Annadon also be immortal? What if later we get a flashback thats right after Locke sped off where Abbadon get up, brushes himself off and calls Widmore to tell him that Locke had taklen the bait?
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Did he? I didn't catch that at all.
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While trying to talk Locke off the table. He claimed Abbadon was "dangerous" and would have killed Locke.
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About the time Walt visited him at the Dharma purge grave...when he told Locke "He still has work to do"?
I mean...we got the part where Walt said he was having crazy dreams about Locke...in a suit...surrounded by people who wanted to 'hurt him'.
You woulda thought John might say something like..."I'm glad you stopped me from killing myself in that grave on the island, Walt. I just wanted to thank you for that."
Either way Walt could have answered that question would have been fine with me..."My pleasure, John...I guess your work still isn't finished?"...OR..."John...I haven't been BACK to the island. What Dharma grave?"
If he answers the first way...it confirms Walt's 'special-ness' in the astral projection/mental telepathy abilities.
If he answers the OTHER way...we can pretty much speculate it was Jacob appearing as Walt...as Christian said the same thing to Locke, "You still have work to do, John", at the FDW.
But that question was NEVER asked...and that's...a bummer. That would have been my FIRST fuckin question to that kid. Not "How ya doin'?" -
Ilana press John further when he said he died?
From Lost-Pedia: "Locke says that he doesn't remember being on the plane, but he does remember dying. Ilana looks at him strangely and walks away."
Looks at him strangely and walks away?!! A law enforcement officer? Ok...I know it would have killed the suspense of the "Ben strangles Locke" scene if she pressed John to elaborate any further. And...yeah...I get she's thinkin'..."Wow...this dude is nuts". But still...I know if it were me standing there...I woulda had at least ONE follow up! Even a "What was that?" would have sufficed. John coulda realized he sounded like a loon and brushed her off with a "I really don't remember anything"...and left it at that.
Man...these Un-Asked Questions are starting to mount up!
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And I actually believed him. There's no one around to suspect he's lying. I feel for once, he was being truthful.
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Ask Widmore, "War?...A war between who?" during the scene at the hospital bed.
From Lost-Pedia: "Locke questions why Widmore should want Locke and the others back on the island. Widmore says that there is a war coming and if Locke is not back, the 'wrong side' is going to win."
Ok...we know a war is coming...But if Widmore plans on helping John recruit the Losties back to the island...wouldn't John want to know who to watch out for once he got back?
Basically, Widmore said..."Go get yer friends...go back to the island and fight my battle for me"!
Again...if it were ME in that hospital bed...I'd wanna know who I was going into 'battle' against! This amazing lack of details I'm sure is Darlton to not wanting tip their hands too early at future episode surprises...However...when it begins to make you question the character's intelligence for NOT asking more relevant questions...
It starts to get annoying upon reflection on an episode days later. -
The ENTIRE 'Locke recruits Kate' scene.
We 'conveniently' enter that scene mid-stream...he's probably given her all the details of how he returned to LA...and has just told her he needs her to come back to the island with him.
Inexplicably...Kate asks him ZERO questions.
How about:
"Jack's Dad told you to spin a wheel...and you woke up in a desert"?
"Is Sawyer alive?"
"Is Claire alive?"
Again...If it were me... -
For this episode will blow yer frickin mind. Some of the 'connections' are amazing. Like...Locke was killed the same way Sawyer killed his father...and Locke was given black & white pills for his pain...and his 'leg resetting' was almost shot for shot the same as Boone's leg resetting scene. Or...if you spotted the 'Creature from the Black Lagoon' pic in the Life magazine Ceasar was flipping through...The actress in the Creature's arms plays Amelia on LOST! Amelia was the first person to arrive at Julia's book club meeting the day 815 crashed.
Some amazing shit, well worth the read. Take out any blank spaces before you copy:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Life_and_Death_of_Jeremy_Bentham -
It's late...I'm going to bed!
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Anybody else think Ceasar is a Widmore 'plant' on 316...To watch over Locke? How else would he know about that Hydra office...he was definitely looking for something specific in there.
I think he was just 'pretending' to not know Locke has already been on the island before at the end of the episode. I think he's there to protect Locke...He is the new Abbadon? -
Brody, you're asking questions that don't need to be, and will never be, addressed.
It's nice there are people thinking outside the box, but you're so off target It's not even funny. -
Locke wasn't embalmed when they threw him the casket? Or was he?
Either way, it's tough being a zombie. -
Refrigerated at the butcher shop. and really who cares... since a magical island brought him back to life anyways.
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Certainly got me thinking. I noticed the Creature From The Black Lagoon pic, too. But I didn't recognize the actress.
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Sawyer is Jack's Grandfather.
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the button to continue reading your "life and death of jeremy bentham thoughts" isn't expanding the post
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All I could feel from him when he said he'd miss John is sarcasm. He was glad to be rid of him. When he sees John alive, he'll be thrown considerably off his game. Jack however, will have his faith in the power of the island solidified, and possibly begin to understand there are bigger things in play.
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Thanks arzt Thats one of my biggest HTML. Im such an idiot when it comes to that stuff sometimes when I do a button and come back later I find that some of the code is missing for no reason, or so it seems to me and I have to go back & reinsert it. Anyways the buttons working again. For now anyways.
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I'll stop asking intelligent questions that frighten and confuse you...and have too many darn 3-syllable words!
Hey, got...How could you...That 'Creature' pic is 55 years old. The actress (Julie Adams) was probably 20 when that pic was snapped. And here she is teasing Ethan for his lack of plumbing skills in 'A Tale of Two Cities'...and appears again as Amelia in 'The Envelope', and was about to get the scoop on Ben's tumor before Juliette's doorbell rang.
Which leads into the name of the airport that is shown to be used by Mittelos Bioscience in 'One of Us', Herarat Aviation: "Herarat" is an anagram of "Earhart".
The details are so layered in this show! Fuckin awesome!
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She's a Marshall, right? she's transporting him, to replicate the circumstances of the original crash, where Kate was being transported by a Marshall too.
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She didn't badge security at the gate with a USMS shield.
usmarshals.gov -
and they're obviously valid ones, at that i think all of those characters SHOULD have asked those very questions to locke. it just stays in line with what we know their personalities to be. we know they don't ask good follow up questions, they tend to avoid probing. at this point, i think we can all agree this is mostly to continue the mysterious nature of the show, darlton not wanting to tip their hands. of course it's frustrating for us as audience members. there seems to be alot of resonance in this argument, especially over the course of this whole season, it seems like a lot of talkbackers are saying, "why don't they ever ask questions?" for me personally, with LOST, i have always been willing to be patient, trusting in the knowledge that the writers will be answering these questions in (more than) due time. i do think something is up with cesar. i could definitely see him being widmore's inside man. he's obviously looking for shit and keeping secrets already. as far as ilana not asking follow up questions, ya gotta imagine if someone says that, you'd have to say, "huh? what do you mean?"
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no worries
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I'm sorry you had to go boom!
And believe me...I KNOW the LOST writers & Darlton are going to give us answers...I'm as patient as you can get with regard to them revealing the mysteries. My concern is, in an effort to KEEP those mysteries from being revealed too soon...the characters suffer by not being able to ask legit, common sense questions. I hate them to have turn my affection for Locke's character, into annoyance that he doesn't ask the simplest of easy questions. Just show me at least he's THINKING!!
But...with questions...come answers...and they are getting to a point where EVERY answer is a doozy. So, I'll cut 'em some slack...but please don't let the character's suffer in order to maintain suspense.
Perhaps it's because the two 'surrogate audience' cast members were not in the Bentham episode to ask the burning questions that we are all thinking...Hurley & Sawyer...(BTW..."Bentham" was the first time Sawyer hasn't appeared in back to back episodes since the beginning of the show!")
I'm sure the question floodgates will be open soon once Hugo & James take back over the reins.
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Why didn't he just use her to get to the island a long time ago, or now?
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I didn't catch all those connections - but I should have caught the stranglation. (I can't spell that) Wasn't the theory that Amelia was actually a certain Miss Aerhart?
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Feb 28, 2009 6:35:20 PM CST
I just read what I said this morning and I ment
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
Thanks arzt HTML is one of my biggest annoyances in blogging. Man I hate having the sickness.
I have a bad cold & pinkeye. Thats what happens when you have kids. Next Im going to go crazy and kill all of you! -
Feb 28, 2009 6:37:16 PM CST
I thought about Old Sawyer the second time that I watched the ep
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
I thought of Jabba the Hutt the first time.
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In a good mystery, the main character is always asking questions, always following clues that will lead the answer of said mystery. The "problem" with Lost in this respect is that the character's goal isn't to find out the answers to the big questions. Their goal is either to get off the island or now, get on it. From their perspective, the mystery is secondary. Not sure if it's a flaw, necessarily, but that is my observation.
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I wouldn't WANT all the characters walking around asking
"What exactly the hell IS that smoke monster thing?"
"What the fuck are those whispers we all keep hearing but nobody ever talks about?"
"How the hell am I seeing Christian everywhere?", etc, all the time...
I'm just talking about the 'situational' things. The moment I SAW Walt this episode, I figured either John (or Walt himself) would recall their meeting at the Dharma grave. Granted...it is possible Walt was never really there...and it was Jacob pretending to be Walt...or perhaps just a fuckin hallucination on John's part...But the fact remains...It insults John's (and thus, MY) intelligence when that whole deal is NEVER EVEN BROUGHT UP!
It's not as if Walt's ANSWER would have been a HUGE revelation...it actually may have even RAISED more questions!! But Locke should have at the VERY LEAST mentioned it.
I don't have a serious problem with it yet...but if these mounting BURNING UN-ASKED QUESTIONS keep continuing in the next few episodes...It's gonna start making me ANGRY at the characters...and my enjoyment of LOST will suffer.
I LOVE they gave Walt scary premonition dreams about Locke...that's fantastic...But still...John was about to swallow a fuckin BULLET in that grave...if Walt hadn't stopped him. That's NOT the kinda thing I'd expect the writers/Darlton to 'gloss over' the next time those two met! And yet...they did.
I'm just callin "shennanigans" on that....that's all.
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The order goes:
1. "Shennanigans"! = Slight Annoyance.
2. "Bullshit" = Annoyed
3. "OMFG...Are You SERIOUS?" = Very Annoyed.
4. "FUCK THIS NOISE!" = I just threw my TV in the pool.
I'm hopeful LOST will never even get to the "Bullshit" stage.
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the characters on LOST have never asked follow-up questions. In fact lately, the shows have been chock full of answers compared to how it used to be. The fact that Charles Widmore told Locke anything is astounding. If it were season one, he would have given him a sip of water and then when Locke asked who he was he would have said "hospitals smell funny". And then when Locke asked about the camera in the desert, Widdy would have been like "camera? desert? does this jacket make me look fat?" LOL If people asked follow-up questions we wouldn't have made it out of season one.
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http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
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I've been watching the show since Sept 22nd, 2004. I know the characters have NEVER asked relevant questions.
Trust me...the only reason I'm shocked is because back in the day, when we got no question...or a half hearted or cut off answer...I wrote it off to..."Well...SOMEDAY we'll get that issue solved...might be in Season 9...but that will pay off eventually!"...
But there's only 27 episodes of LOST left now. There will BE no Season 9. And to waste a moment like that Walt/Locke meeting on "So...have you seen my dad?"...with a blatant lie as a response...followed by "How ya been?"...Um...I'm just not feeling the urgency...but worse...the sensibility of the storytelling.
I would have settled for a simple "Thanks for yer help...back on the island, Walt. You saved my life".
Walt could have said ANYTHING to that. My favorite would have been:
"Did I, John?"
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Hilarious, Pa!!
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not that US Marshalls have any juristiction in Guam
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because it's US territory.. who knew
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Stay in school, kids!
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Yeah I thought that you would enjoy it. I posted three others earlyer that are just as funny.
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I let it go more with Locke than anyone else, mostly because I find his ignorance key. It's essential to his nature. He doesn't question anything, he takes it all on faith. It's also one of the reasons I've disliked him since around Season 2. He likes to put on an air of authority and leadership, but he doesn't have any answers. Frankly if the Island wants Locke to be its new protector, I've GOT to believe it's ONLY because he's less of a selfish psycho than Ben. Because Ben is a brilliant, master manipulating, hard-knock-taking badass.
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was Walt last night. You seen my dad? Oh yeah, he was on a freighter near the island. Cool, check you later, I gotta go play video games.
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Makes you question WHY Walt is so ambivilent. Now...remember...EVERYONE was ambivilent in their visits with Locke...especially Kate...Not even ONE blip about Sawyer? C'mon.
Some might say..."Cheif...if the character didn't ASK it, that's the writers telling us it's NOT IMPORTANT...let it go, you anal retentive thumbsucker!"...
But...you miss my point...In the settings they are in, with the history they have all shared (granted...3 years removed)...those hundred plus days...some crazy ass shit happened! Stuff you don't just forget...or 'gloss over' the next time you see a guy you never thought you'd see again...or are having "strange dreams" about.
It takes me out of the reality of the show when that happens. I'm not even THAT concerned what the answers would be...It's enough for me to just have the characters acknowlege the obvious once in a while!
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I only saw the episode once but I seem to remember Jack faring the best out of all of them in terms of asking the logical questions. I think what we the audience were supposed to understand is that they cut out the beginning "where did you come from" questions. Except for Walt, Jack, and Hurley, whose conversation we saw from beginning to end, the others we only saw moments of, so it's conceivable they did ask the pertinent questions.
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in S1 when Locke said "I have seen the eye of the island, and it is beautiful". The reason Locke's "faith" worked really well for me in the beginning is because it seemed founded on some sort of evidence that we weren't privy to. It was soon revealed in S2 era that Locke didn't know jackshit and everything seemed like it could be explained scientifically. In my opinion, Locke's faith and subsequent crisis of faith with pushing the button was dramatically inert and pretty much made Locke lose this on-island bad ass factor. I would have much rather seen Locke continuing to learn skills, lead and be more active. Maybe what they could have done was have more "Moses and the burning bush moments" to give us more a peek into why he believes himself to be special. Cause once I found out the island had special properties, I would realize that I wasn't special, the island was. The button is my single biggest Lost annoyance, so don't any fans lose their cool, I've watched every episode since S1 and it has continually kept me entertained.
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I mentioned that in my Kate's BURNING UN-ASKED QUESTION post last night. I think Sayid's and Jack's were the most realistic...although Hurley's was hilarious...But having a guy who scared the be-Jesus outta Hurley standing outside the fuckin car for Hugo to SEE seemed like a cheap way to cut that scene short. Of COURSE Hugo was gonna freak at the sight of Abbadon! Why wouldn't Matthew have just stayed in the car...or driven around the block...He knew he had history with Hurley...He tried to recruit him already and just scared the shit outta him...How did he think his presence there was going to help?
He didn't...because the writer's didn't WANT that sceen to progress much further than Locke asking Reyes to return and Hugo freakin out. Cuz...WE KNOW Hurley...once he got over the fact that Locke was alive and actually sitting there...he woulda had a SHIT TON of BURNING QUESTIONS for Locke. If HURLEY doesn't ask any questions...you KNOW there's a problem.
But, alas...the writer's conveniently let Abbadon stupidly hang out in plain sight...as to render those questions UN-ASKED!
But the Walt scene...that was a fuckin let down in a half.
It was almost as if the writers were SO intent on setting up Walt's spooky premonitions for 'future' episodes...that they conveniently forgot to acknowledge the PAST!
BULLSHIT!...er...I mean...
"Shennanigans!" Lol!! -
i think locke's crisis of faith is central to his character and resonates with his personality as revealed in the flashbacks. as locke said, "the pain was necessary for him to get to where he is" or some such similar sentiment (i love alliteration!). this show has always been about mixing the scientific explanations with the supernatural/sci-fi explanations, and some moments/seasons they drift more in one direction than the other.
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the declaration of shenanigans is just. everyone grab a broom!
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i have 14 pages of essay to write between now and tuesday morning. i would much rather spend my time in here tossing around lost theories. fuck school. who needs education anyway?
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none of the losties who Locke contacted made any sense. Kate was a total bitch to Locke for no reason. And Jack and his "we were never important" thing was kinda wacky too. Every once and a while the characters act out of character and I don't get it. I forget what season it was. I think it was season three but there was a stretch of episodes where everyone went from liking Sawyer one episode to hating Sawyer the next to liking Sawyer in the one after that for little to know reason. Maybe there are too many writers so things get off track sometimes. But look at last week's episode when Kate's like "don't ask me about Aaron ever again" and Jack's like "cool". I mean, come on, that's his nephew for cripes sake. But back to this episode. Jack in the hospital was waiting for Locke to wake up so he could yell at him for being in his hospital. WTF? Whatever issues they had he should have been like curious or even happy to know that when the island disappeared everyone on it wasn't vaporized. But no, right out of the gate he's yelling at Locke. If they cared enough to lie to protect them all that time he should have at least been happy that Juliet and Sawyer and all them might be alive.
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I think that at that time Jack was starting to feel guilty about leaving the island, so his yelling at Locke was his way of trying to run away from what he knew he had to do.
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I agree his crisis of faith is central to his character, I am just saying in that particular instance (the button) the crisis was lame and somewhat contrived. Locke losing the ability to walk on-island: real crisis.
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what does he have faith in exactly? When his faith is more clearly defined, I am intrigued by him. When his faith is generalized, I have a harder time understanding andengaging with his character.
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because he has faith that the Losties were in danger and that he had to get everyone back to the island because he was going to lead them in a future war. Sounds crazy but we understand his faith because DEAD people are TELLING him this. Speaking of matters of faith, I am mightily confused by this whole "proxy" business. There is no way in hell I would believe anyone telling me I had to stick my dead dather's shoe on another dead man so that a plane can crash AGAIN onto a time-jumping island. At least explain the rationale, in pseudo-scientific or even pseudo-religious terms to get me to understand why I must do that. And don't just tell me I have to have faith...faith in what?? Even if I was Locke, I'd be like "I have to do what...why?" Ok you have to recreate the circumstances of the original flight as best as possible. That makes sense. But the SINGLE most critical circumstance that determined the plane crash was Desmond not pushing the button, causing the magnetic discharge or whatever, a freak occurrence in its own right. Wasn't that the whole point of S2? So how can I recreate the MOST IMPORANT CIRCUMSTANCE when it was a freak accident and the button hatch place exploded?? Who cares who was on the plane? Clearly you are telling me that that has something to do with it, but unless you are a DEAD person or the voice of God, I have every reason to ask you why! End of rant.
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every chance they get! Just when the dude is all bad ass...and on top of his game...they
Have him fuck up the Swan hatch...Kill Boone...Cough up a kidney...Lose track of a cabin...Get tossed outta window...Lose his lover...get conned over and over again...Get shot...Get his leg broken...and finally get strangled to death.
In Season 5...it started so nicely for him...he was leader of the Others...BFF's with Jacob...Walkin around the island like he owns the place...Makin 17 year old Widmore look like an ass..."Whadya think he's gonna do? Be able to track ME?!"...Yeah, fuck head...he did.
Just when he's at the top of the heap...PANTS-ED!...trustin the same idiot that already put a bullet in his back once before.
Goddamn it...I want my takin on a polar bear with nothing but a lighter and an aerosol can back! The guy who drags dead boars around like luggage....The guy who knows when it's about to rain...Who stands up to 'Ol Smokie like it's nothin but a thang.
If he's not gonna ask or mention relevent shit...at least stop hangin him out to dry!
I suppose we had to see him get humiliated so many times...to make it all the more sweeter when he inherits his rightful place next to jacob on the island.
But, God! Darlton is getting a lil masochistic with Locke and crushing his faith every 5 minutes! -
I feel ya buddy...But the 815 incident and the 316 incident were two different animals.
First off, 815 crashed after it slammed into the electromagnetic shockwave. It broke the fuck up due to Desmond's failure to push the button.
There was no shockwave that brought down 316 in pieces. It flew through a time jump flash...and Lapidus was there (this time) to bring 316 in for a 'controlled landing' on the Hydra island. That plane is safe...but injured. It will probably be how the Losties finally escape that island once & for all when Lapidus takes off like Han Solo with the island desinegrating underneath them like the Death Star exploding behind the Falcon.
The proxy's had to be in place, but NOT the exact circumstance that caused the plane to go down.
Where did Lapidus & Sun go? Sun went to look for Jin...Lapidus went to look for spare parts from 815 that will allow him to fix the fried circuitry in 316...and will let them take off again....(in Season 6).
The proxy's had to be in place to recreate as best they could the circumstances of what happened to 815...the stroke of luck (or 'window' as Eloise called it) was the time flash coinciding with 316 flight path.
In a sense...the time flash became the proxy for the electromagnetic shock wave. -
I'm goin to bed! God...that was an awful Dollhouse episode last night! First and last one I'll watch.
Joss...a 'Faith/Buffy' reboot was the way to go, buddy!
Namaste, ya'll...Headed to Daytona for Bike Week and shooting wet T-Shirt and Bikini Contests for a few days tomorrow. I'll check in when I can!
GO TEAM VINCENT! -
Meaning that it would have happened whether or not the 316 was flying over? I don't know... Regarding your unasked questions peeve, I totally get you, although I personally had a bigger problem with it in last weeks ep, when the O6 seemed to completely disregard the fact that they were asked to board a plane that would potentially crash because of them, possibly killing dozens of "innocents". This time around I attribute the lack of rational questions to the sort of condensed storytelling that is evidently required to wrap this mammoth plot up in time for the final episode. And this episode certainly required more of this than most others. There was a lot of ground to cover in this ep, and I suppose TPTB chose not to write it realistically. After all, we all knew excactly what the outcome of every scene Bentham would have with the O6 would be, and it would very quickly be boring if they didn't cut to the chase. It's not necessarily sloppy writing, just a way of covering a lot of ground in a short time. Still, would have been nice to at least see him ask Walt what the deal with the Dharma-pit was...Or maybe Locke knew Walt had nothing to do with it, that he has been privvy to some info that it was actually Smokey/the island appearing...?Also, I definitely think Ben knew Locke would ressurect. Didn't Jack ask him a couple of eps back whether Locke really was dead, and Ben gave him a cryptic look? BTW, I'm not buying that Abbadon is dead, even though Lostpedia states him as so. We never saw him expire, and just because Ben said he killed him, doesn't mean he stuck around long enough to confirm him dead. Or has there been a podcast or something confirming him dead?
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the other passengers. He knew they were in danger. He knew what was up. But it was surprising there wasn't more concern all around.
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I gotta agree with your opinion of Dollhouse. That thing was awful. Really bad. Supposedly, next week is better. But I'm *this* close to not even giving it another shot at not completely sucking. It's sad, really. I find almost all the peripheral characters interesting. The big problem is that Duckshoot is not carrying the show. I'll give it to them that it may just need some time to grow/settle in. But we all know Fox's track record in this regard. If it DOES improve and become a great show, it's already too late for it. Fox stands behind NOTHING unless it sucks on some basic level. If it's a horrible show, I think it's contracted that it's guaranteed at least 3 seasons, in spite of ratings. If it's an amazing show, improves it's ratings and is LOVED by it's audience, they are compelled to cancel it. Fox must be bound to some kind of blood contract with Satan that promises them eternal life AS LONG as they cancel any and all shows that are good.
But Dollhouse has a LONG way to go to have me say it even has potential anymore. Others I've spoken to about it seem to feel the same way. Sad. So sad. -
It's frickin cold out! Not gonna be 'wet' tee contests...it's gonna be 'FROZEN' tee contests! Oh, well...the headlights will be on!
But, I wanted to address the Colonel's question: No...the time flash that brought 316 down (safely) was NOT accidental...But it was RANDOM. As was Desmond's failure to push the button that he had been doing so dutifully for 3 years! It was a RANDOM event.
There are no 'accidents' on the island...Fate made Des miss the button on 815...Fate timed the time shift for 316.
The only difference is...THIS time, because of the pendulum room info...The 0-6 & Ben could 'up the certainty' that the island would accept them again...by recreating as many of the circumstances from 815...and not just getting the PEOPLE all together...But the 'conditions' and 'situations' that were in place on board.
Step further...Abbadon said "I get people in the places they need to be..." with regard to his job for Widmore.
You know who ELSE had that job?
Libby! Who just 'happened' to have a 'sailboat' in her back pocket when Des needed a sailboat back in 2001...so Des could enter his lil boat race that WIDMORE was SPONSORING! Abbaddon was an 'orderly' at the hospital Locke rehabbed in...Libby was a 'patient' in the mental facility that Hurley was in...she helped to steer Hurley, by getting Leonard to spout off Hurley's precious numbers, and tell Hugo about Sam Toomey!
Both Abbadon and Libby were shot dead.
So...if Libby was on 815...she needed a proxy on 316...just as Kate's Marshall needed a proxy in Ilana...
Libby's proxy on 316 is Ceasar.
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I know a few people who feel similarly about Locke. I think some of that has to do with your personal feelings on the character. Personally, I haven't liked him since he got all high-and-mighty with Charlie. His self-righteous behavior continued into the hatch, then when they were fighting the Others, then when they split from Jack and the would-be rescued (his bullshit with Kate in New Otherton made me incredibly mad - "This isn't a democracy"??? Fuck you, baldie). Frankly, I loved every moment in Season 4 when Ben would make some snarky crack at John. That said, I agree that he's suffered an awful lot and I WOULD like to see him get his shit together now that he's been dead. Maybe a sense of perspective or something. Or an acceptance of the fact that he's not the swinging dick he likes to think (remember his science teacher tried to warn him: you're not the quarterback). Essentially, I agree with you. The character deserves some redemption. BUT I also am fine with him having been kicked around because I, personally, would love to kick him around.
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You are right...I was a lil dismissive of Locke's 'holier than thou' moments! But I think THOSE were put in there to make his 'pantsing' scenes that much more humiliating for him! Darlton really have it out for this guy.
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For those of you calling Kate a "Bitch" for how she handled Locke's visit in her kitchen...
How would you have liked Kate to have said... "This is NOT a democracy, John. Go fuck yerself."...
Would that have spelled out what the writers were trying to do in that scene with Kate better for you? -
You should come here to Norway. Three feet of snow! Good call on Libby. I guess that pretty much explains what she was all about, thus shutting the mouths of lots of Lost haters. Her unresolved story is one of their favourite "proofs" of the show's alleged lack of a plan.
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it's basically what i've been thinking since abbadon said that line, "i get people where they're supposed to be." the same thought occurred to me with libby as well
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...at a coffee shop? Yeah, right! Nothing accidental about it. Widmore all the way.
Des just told Charles to fuck himself when he offered Desmond a mint to 'disappear', and leave Penny alone. When Des mentions winning the sailboat race will put him back in Daddy's good graces...Widmore send Libby to provide Desmond with everything he needed to disappear forever...a collision course with Craphole Island.
Except 815 flew by one day and changed all that. -
NORWAY? What the hell? You work for Penelope Widmore? Manning an igloo looking for electromagnetic anomolies? Do you speak Portuguese? Lol!!
Get yer ass to Daytona Beach, brutha!
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Tunisia? Hardly. Come to think of it, one of the Portuguese/Brazilians was named Henrik, which is as far as I know not really a common Portuguese name. However, it is extremely common in Norway... [POOM]
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I also had a problem with Christian's shoes representing Christian and I'm guessing that was Charlie's guitar. Is this actual science or stuff they made up for the show? Because it sounds like when someone hires a psychic to find a missing person and they give the psychic their hairbrush because that's supposed to help somehow.
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I hardly doubt there was any 'hard science' behind the proxies. That wreaks more of the island's 'demands' to allow people to return.
BTW...Christian's shoes didn't represent Christian...LOCKE did!! The shoes were there to 'seal the deal' that Lockes body would be accepted...and...perhaps...that it would be resurrected...ala Christian.
Not sure if that was an actual guitar Charlie 'owned' that Hurley brought on board. It may have just been one Hugo picked up. It certainly was NOT the one that Chawlee brought with him on 815. But Hurley, given his tax bracket, could have afforded to BUY one of Charlie's old guitars on Ebay if he wanted a memento of his old buddy.
Or Charlie could have brought him it from beyond the grave...when he met him outside the jail and told him he needed to take it back to the island. We'll see about that. -
A specific pattern developed among the descendants of 20th-century immigrants: they use only their father's surname and two given names, the first is a Portuguese given name and the second one is a given name from their father's original country.
This pattern is most used among Japanese and Syrian-Lebanese immigrants sons and grandsons. So one can find names like "Paulo Salim Maluf" where Paulo is a Portuguese given name, Salim is an Arabian given name, and Maluf is his father's surname; or "Maria Heiko Sugahara" where Maria is a Portuguese given name, Heiko a Japanese given name and Sugahara is her father's surname. This practice allows the person to be recognized as "Paulo Maluf" or "Maria Sugahara" (in the large Brazilian society) or as "Salim Maluf" or "Heiko Sugahara" (in the immigrants' social community). This pattern became almost a general rule in São Paulo and other southern states.
Miscegenation slowed down this use; but it is commonly used when both father and mother belong to the same ethnicity. Younger generations tend to use both the father and the mother family name, thus giving four names to their sons (like "Paulo Salim Lutfalla Maluf" or "Maria Heiko Sugahara Uemura").
Perhaps "Henrik's" father was of Nordic decent? Just tryin to help out here, Blimp! Lol!
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And I suppose that's just the proof that Lost's jumped the shark. The fact that we will never know if the father of Henrik the Brazilian Tracking Station Employee was of Nordic descent just underlines the contempt TPTB have for their fans. Lazy writing! :P
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If they never reveal Henrik's father's decent...I'm DONE with LOST! Lol!!
Ok...the Daytona train is finally departing! See you guys on the other side! -
Tell my sister I love her.
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Have a good trip chief, ARZT, do your homework!
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This is the best season yet. So why are the ratings the lowest they've ever been?
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Tough show to go up against.
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I watched Ben's demeanor when he visited John Locke. He was very convincing in his concern for John not committing suicide. I can't decide if it's John mention of Jin or Eloise Hawking that pushed Ben back the other way. I'm thinking he didn't go there with the intent to kill. But by the time he says "a promise is a promise..." he sounds patronizing - and you know that you can't trust him. Some mysteries answered, now there's even more questions to ask! I don't think either Widmore or Ben Linus are trustworthy!
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I think there evil...I think everyone is evil...the only person I trust on the show is Hurley, and he's crazy. similar to real life:)
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Anyone notice what Hurley was working on at the Loony Bin this week? Looked like a drawing of the giant Sphinx pyramid. Any significance to anything? In the past he's drawn polar bears and dharma sharks, I believe.
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doc jensen mentioned that sphinx translates to "strangle" foreshadowing ben's murder of locke
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What I got out of it was that the Sphinx is somewhat in the in the same area of the world as Tunisia where Ben & Locke trabsported to.
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I agree with you about Libby on everything except the Leonard part. Leonard and that other guy that Hurley visited the one legged wife heard the numbers while they were at sea during their service in one of the armed forces I believe. Not from Libby in the Hospital. Otherwise I agree with you.
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Do we know that they are not on the same side? What if they have just created this fake conflict to manipulate people into doing their bidding, by having them believe "you're either with us or against us" whereas they are both on the same side?
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It's been hinted at that they cannot kill each other (or die for that matter.. before their time). I believe they have both seen "the ending" so to speak. They both know how this all ends, which requires that they both survive intact until their "moment in the sun" (alright you sick minded perverts.. enough of that.. you know what I mean..)arrives. I seriously doubt they are in it together. I just think they've both seen the future. I think it explains Ben's seeming interest in the well being of certain people. He doesn't actually care, he just know how it all ends and who is still alive when it does.
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I believe that one character IS "special" in the sense that his actions/inactions will determine an unsure end to Ben and Widmore's little game. I'm not sure either of them know this with certainty yet. (IMO it IS Desmond but I do not think Ben or Widmore know this yet)
This "opinion" that the future is static and unchangeable is simply that... and opinion. Educated, sure, but still an opinion. I think the characters so far have simply never experienced fate being altered. How could they? They are still experiencing and living through the only reality they know of. Does a man who has lived through a changed history realize it? Or does he ..
WAKE UP from dreams when it's changed, dreams that feel like reality and become memories? Hmm??? -
Sorry for all the typos. I have lost(poom) much sleep this week.
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this has all been discussed already. It's just been on my mind lately and ElPaw's post reminded me of it. Where are all the regulars this morning, anyway?
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Not unlike my usual behaviour of just talking back to myself.
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Where is everyone? Sleeping? Working? Run out of cheetos in your mom's basement? (that reminds me, I need sandbags for my mom's basement... it's raining like crazy again)
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It just gets steadily less and less fascinating and more juvenile. But that doesn't explain all the Bale talkbackers, does it?
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in the jungle are??
Ooh, sorry. Season one flashback there. -
CHAMPS!
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Good to see at least one other person is awake and posting.
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Yes I have been disappointed this year with the lack of posting through the week. Although I can't think of much to say myself at this point. Anyone have a theory on who the woman is in the promo for this week with the sack on her head?
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Danielle? Wait.. did she... dang... POOM .. I'm lost.
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Frome the look on Han's face... Maybe Kate?
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Very funny. "Stay in school, kids."
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episode. Just one? Seems like a huge episode. But at this pace, which one hasn't ben? (see what I did there?)
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Everyone have a great day. I hope I've planted the sayid and others wake up to post. (see what I did again there?)
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the shark?
XIPHOS to the head!!
(secret talkback WMD) -
I am digging this season most of all, it felt like in the beginning it was Lost greatest hits with the jumping to the greatest island moments. Well played by the writers. I really like the way they made everything so open that it's hard to come up with theories we are so boggled. Well played writers...well played
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About Widmore sending Des to the island intentionally... isn't Widmore trying to get BACK to the island? Why not just get there himself and be happy? Why send his future son-in-law, who he pretty much hates, to his beloved island?
Unless this means, that he knows how to get back, but he needs things to play out a certain way and he needed all this crap to happen.
But then again... this could've just been a big plan to get back at Ben for conning him off the island in the first place.
Then again... POOM... I'm Lost.
These damn writers... I swear, it's a love/hate relationship we have going on here. -
... how sweet it is!!! I know BigE has to be with us on this... even if we don't see him until the next talkback.
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It's still co-champs until tomorrow night, so I'm pretty hyped up, but I still want a BTT championship, a #1 seed, and a final 4!
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I've been flipping around on the Good Guy / Bad Guy argument for some time on Ben and Charles. Final conclusion - I think they're both evil. Why did Widmore want Des on the island, anyway? Or did Des just happen there due to coincidence or (thanks Mrs Hawking!) fate?
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Mar 02, 2009 11:40:59 PM CST
Lots of Spoilers behind the shiney orange buttons!
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
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No spoiler pics...all from episodes that have already aired. Some nice shots of Ellie, for the boys...and there's some shirtless Sawyer pics for Barfy & Fishy! My favorite of the bunch can only be described as "Princess Farraday"!
Jump over to MSN to take a peek here. Make sure you remove any pesky spaces after you paste!
http://tv.msn.com/gallery/lost-behind-the-scenes/?gt1=28103 -
Pa...Ever think Libby manipulated the shit out of Leonard...and was responsible for him to start reciting Hurley's lotto numbers over and over again like a loon? I'm not saying Libby GAVE Leonard the numbers, he already HAD them as you mentioned...But she got him to begin spouting them off in front of Hugo whenever the two met. Either by a threat...or possibly by being extra nice to him...and showing him attention...giving Lenny her desserts? Just saying...she was there to make sure Hugo was 'in the place he needed to be'...which was Austrailia...then she accompanied Hurley to the island via 815...and was attempting to continue steering Hugo further ON ISLAND....by...yep...showing him some 'special' attention...but her steering got cut short by itchy trigger finger Michael.
IL Duece...We don't know what Chuck Widmore did all those years ago to get himself banished from the island...we also don't know what the 'banishment' means...It could mean Widmore is not ALLOWED to return on his own...until something ELSE happens on the island that will allow him to return...something that 'cancels' the banishment.
But I think he sent Des to the island via Libby and her (Charles') spare sailboat, because...well...if you want somebody to disappear forever...what better place than a frickin hatch you can never leave cuz you are trapped pushing a button evey 108 minutes or you'll kill everyone you ever loved. BTW...As Pa knows, I have a feeling Kelvin (Inman) was also a Widmore plant...to sit with Des for 3 years to make sure he was truly committed to pushing that button. He even offered up Des's fixed sailboat...and told Des they could leave the island...that the button pushing was bullshit. And Des got so upset with him...their arguement leads to Inman's death(?)...and Kelvin purposely led Des exactly far enough away from the hatch...that the poor Scot would never make it back in time to push the button...thus, ensuring 815 (with everone else Widmore needed on the island onboard) would be brought down by the subsequent electromagnetic shockwave. That's a doozy. You may have to watch that one again.
Blimp...Yer sister won the wet tee contest today! (Well...She DID blow all the judges).
Got...man...you were talkbackin alone for a good stretch there, dude. LOST talkbacker kudos to you!
Back in tampa tonight to put out some fires...but back over to Daytona (GASP!) Wednesday night. So, I will miss my first S5 episode of LOST. So...I'll be a ghost in the next TB until I get a chance to watch the episode on Sunday!! God...staying spoiler free THAT long? It's gonna be rough! -
i already am on board with the libby/widmore connection. the widmore/kelvin would be coom
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15 pages in 2 days! all done. ready to get baked and watch TV
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Thats why he kept spouting off those numbers like that, niot because of Libby. I believe the Widmore/Libby connection, but the Widmore/Kelvin thing is a little out there.
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But we know Inman visited Sayid in Iraq, too. That's Des & Sayid for Inman...Libby visited Des & Hurley ('undercover' @ Santa Rosa)...That's two Losties EACH...with Desmond being 'the constant'.
When Darlton says the Penny/Desmond relationship will be huge in the overall arc...I don't think they are kidding.
Whereas Abbadon blatantly approached Locke as the 'orderly' in rehab, to 'steer' him to his walkabout...Libby had to be more covert, posing as a fellow patient in 'steering' Reyes, as she knew she would be accompanying Hurley to and from Austrailia. She almost got busted..."I feel like I know you from somewhere", Hugo said once. So...Libby used Leonard & the numbers to help her do the 'steering'. Pa...you take everything at face value on LOST? Just because Leonard was in a mental ward, 'crazily' repeating 6 numbers over and over again...doesn't mean he was ACTUALLY crazy! I mean...Hugo is in the mental ward...and HE'S not crazy!!
Is it possible Widdy and Libby contacted/paid off Leonard to GET him in that mental ward...to ACT crazy for Hurley?
Ya notice Leonard conveniently STOPPED acting crazy, giving Hurley the clue to head to Austrailia at EXACTLY the moment everyone was booking flights on 815? Leonard was in on it...and was merely putting on the 'crazy' act for Hurley.
Nothing is what it seems, Pa. There is no 'face value'.
Arzt...tell me about it. But the good thing is, once I get back (I HAVE to go BACK!!) to Daytona Wednesday...I won't have any internet access...so, that will be a huge help in staying spoiler free. I get back on Sunday early evening and my DVR will be the first thing I head to.
GO TEAM VINCENT! -
Although Darlton has stated that Libbys story is over. Meaning anything that we come up with that relates to her is fan fiction. I know that it sucks. I to wanted an explanation as to why she was there. But Darlton acted like there are so many things to wrap up and Libby's story is one of the things that will not be touched on.
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"No time travel" back in 2005. Funny how they got Libby to appear last season in "Meet Kevin Johnson". It matters not. They can still tell that story without Libby...cuz...they can always just use Leonard.
But...you know how JJ & Darlton LOVE surprises...(Picard & Data in the new TREK?!!)...I wouldn't rule out another Watros sighting just yet...the title of yer last post says it all...
Nothing is what it seems.
[POOM] -
Locke? Jack? Ben? Widmore? The Economist? JACOB?
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part of your theory & & the Kelvin/Widmore connection. But we'll see in the future. I really do hope that we get a Libby backstory.
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Walt told John he saw him in his dreams on the island in a suit surrounded by people who want to hurt him. That would be The Others...coming to check out their new visitors...same as they (eventually) did with the 815 folks. They will start rounding up 'prisoners' and John will tell them he is their leader. They will say...BEN is our leader...John will say...You mean that crumpled mess laying over there?...John will convince these new Others that he needs to talk with Richard Alpert....and Richard will clear this whole mess up.
Pa...I know...we'll just hafta wait & see at this point. What was the point of showing us Libster in the loony bin if she wasn't influencing SOMEONE?! -
Although ether could be correct. Although at the end of it all I would be disapointed if that was one story that they didn't wrap up, but in relation to things like Smokey, What is the Island, Ben & Widmore's game, etc Libby is lower on the list.
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BECAUSE Libby is so low on the list, the scenario where she actually WAS in there because she was mentally unstable is not realistic.
Why bother showing us her in there, if it was just to say..."Hey...look who else is crazy!". Nope. Libby was watching Hurley for Widmore. And while we may never SEE that investigated any further via flashback, it doesn't mean it can't be explained later.
Can you envision a scene late in Season 6 where you have Eloise...or "Jacob"...or Alvar frickin Hanso himself going around the room in EXPOSITION HALL where they say..."Hurley...there you were...wasting your life in a mental institution...when in reality...you were just running away from your fears. It wasn't until you met Leonard...Step out here Leonard...(He steps out in a suit and tie, clean shaven...like a business man. He waves to Hurley)...Leonard here gave you the courage to face your fears, Hugo".
And then he'll go on to give Kate a brain, and Sawyer a heart. And jack will be like "What do I get?"...and he'll say..."You wanted to go 'home' Jack...but you were 'home' all along!"...and Auntie Em will be there...and Henry Gale...and Vincent...
Seriously...Abbadon...Libby...Inman...all working for the 'man'. Count on it. -
C'mon - that means that other mysteries and questions will go unanswered too? I want ALL of my LOST questions wrapped up by the series finale in upcoming 27 episodes, please!
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If Pa's prediction is we'll never see Libby again is true (which I doubt)...there's still plenty of ways to tie up her loose ends.
I would have to imagine that they mysteries will be solved by order of 'huge-ness' in the overall mythology. So...small things like..."What was Libby doin in the loony bin?"...will begin to get revealed sooner, rather than later.
I'll bet now that we're at the half way point of Season 5 with tomorrow night's outting...and the 0-6 are all back on the island...the smaller answers will begin to crescendo to a shocking cliffhanger leading us into Season 6.
Season 6 will be all about the BIG mysteries that Pa mentioned above. But...filling in the blanks with Libby is as simple as somebody on the Ajira team (Sun?) stumbling upon Libby's hidden secret diary...chronicling her journey from coffee shops abroad...to her 'stint' in Santa Rosa to Austrailia...and finally on the island.
"Day 32- I approached Hurley today. I was so nervous. But after talking to him...I can understand why Charles finds him so 'special'. He's very charming...but insecure. I'm hoping to get closer tomorrow...perhaps we'll go on a 'date'? I've never dated a millionaire before! Jack mentioned Desmond today...Thank God he sailed off immediately. It would have been hard to explain to him how we both ended up on the same island. Damn Locke for finding that stupid hatch! Ok...More after my 'date' with Hurley."
FINAL JOURNAL ENTRY -
Aside from lotsa 'voice over' work in animation..."Family Guy"..."Mars", Cynthia has wrapped a lame baseball movie that shot in Oregon. And nothing in the 'upcoming projects' category.
I think a call from Darlton would be a blessing to her. And, like I said...The more Darlton claim somebody's story is done...the more I think they are using misdirection.
Look at the final season of ER this year...Old...and even DEAD past cast members are falling outta the woodwork to do cameos. Will CLOONEY come back? That's the big mystery...some say he shot a secret scene.
I don't think next season will be any different for LOST.
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in 23 episodes. Hmmmmm...perhaps she SHOULDN'T come back for #24!
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Mar 03, 2009 10:36:29 PM CST
and Auntie Em will be there...and Henry Gale
by 4we8have15to16go23back42
...and Henry Gale - So your saying that Ben is also working for "The Man"? He He
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GO STATE!
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GO STATE!
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GO STATE! RAYMAR DUNK!!!!
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Sorry for the trip post.
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I was going post something about that. That was a wicked sick dunk! And thankfully, no more Wednesday night games for the rest of the season, so no more conflicts with LOST night for me! So, someone starting a pool as to what time the new TB goes up? I say Herc posts at 2:24 pm EST (1:24 CT!)
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I say he posts it at 1:07 pm EST
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Think Herc'll be runnin a lil later today.
I may get to see LOST tonite! Might not leave til tomorrow morning.
Congrats Node! -
Sooner or later it will have to happen. Fun little detail: I've started rewatching season 4 now (hence the "tell my sister I love her"-reference, CB). In "The Economist", when Faraday checks the time after receiving the payload, one of the watches is showing 03:16.
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"Makin it up as they go along". Christ! Fuck the haters!
Welp, just got the sad, sad news...Gotta head to Daytona today. Enjoy the episode gang. I'll join ya after I get back.
See ya in another life, brutha. -
I lose.
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about last week's eppy, Hobo...Including Herc. I don't think he'll be as in a big as hurry today.
I hafta say...I wasn't blown away by the promo for this week...perhaps it's because I'm not a 'shipper' at all...and it looks like this eppy has 'shipper' all over it.
Oh, well...hopefully there will be some big reveals to balance out the 'love quadrangle' nonsense. -
more than last week's for some reason. Probbaly becasue I'm not a LockeMan. I'm a SawyerMan.
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But the name Hugh never seemed to fit me.
...and that's why I won't do 2 shows on Satuday. I won't. I won't. -
I guess it is closest without going over. He's got 10 minutes for my time.
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Cuz if not... I do.
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