Cool News
Updated! Quint had a chat with Zack Snyder and Dave Gibbons via PS3! Wanna listen?
Hey guys. Quint here again, with a slight update. Forgive me for keeping this short, but I woke up at 7am to do this Snyder and Gibbons chat (which ain't bad, but it is when you're used to working till around 4am) and have stayed up all day organizing WonderCon and shaping up a few articles to post before leaving on Thursday... and then I saw the flick, so busy day.
Here are a couple of pictures and a link to where you can listen to the audio file of the whole chat should you be so inclined. I was caught a tad off guard with fielding the first question and to compound matters I had it structured in advance to ask of both Snyder and Gibbons. Unfortunately for me, Gibbons came into the room before Snyder did so when I was called upon I had to try to restructure the question on the fly, which lead to some fumbling, but oh well. The point came across and it did start a thread of conversation about the previous incarnations of the story, so it was all good.
There's my avatar above. Forgive my mountain man beard. There weren't many options when creating my avatar, so I look like some beefy Howard Hughes version of Christopher McQuarrie for some reason on the PS3.
Here's what the whole bizarre event looked like with virtual people asking live questions of other virtual people:
And now we're left with the link to the audio. Snyder addresses the squid in great detail and gives his reasons why he couldn't incorporate it. Gibbons talks about Joel Silver's Arnold Schwarzeneggerized version of Watchmen that almost was and then there's a discussion about the almost casting of both Jude Law and Tom Cruise in the Ozymandias role. Hope you guys enjoy it:
Click here for the whole press event in audio format!
I'm told there might be an edited video of the conference tomorrow. I'll update this story one final time if that becomes available. Thanks to those who tuned in this morning and have been taking part in the very lively discussion in the talkbacks. Love it or hate it, this material brings out the passion like none other I've seen in recent times.
UPDATE:
So, I am up and conscious, but after sitting alone in the virtual clubhouse where all this is supposed to be taking place for the last half hour I'm realizing that when I was told I had to be there at 8am that the lovely and extremely helpful Mr. Marc Berry must have assumed I was in Los Angeles. 4pm GMT is when the event starts, which is in 2 hours. So, 8am Pacific and 10am Central. Now you have time for that extra bowl of Trix!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Tomorrow is going to be WATCHMEN day for me. I'm giddy to finally see the movie tomorrow night, but I'm also kicking off my day with WATCHMEN by taking part in a unique press event. I'll be one of 10 fans, bloggers and reporters from around the world to ask questions of Dave Gibbons and Zack Snyder via the Playstation Home online community.
I'm much, much more familiar with the XBox Live community, so I'm sure that I'll fuck things up somehow... and now I want to invite you to witness my fuckups live! I've embedded the window below... it's black now, but will be streaming the virtual press conference live. I think there might be some clips and pics and art and stuff displayed as well, but don't quote me on that.
I have no idea if this will turn out at all or just seem ridiculous... all these cartoonish avatars asking questions of the creative team of the WATCHMEN movie, but I'll give it a go.
So, if you're up butt-ass early in the morning (8am CST) feel free to reload this page and give a watch!
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there it is
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do you play Xbox Live? if you so you need to send me your gamertag so me and you can rock Left 4 Dead!
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SCREAM!!! YELL!!!
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Have the balls to ask him why it's not in and why it's not in? Ask him what his feeling is about the revolt seen recently in these talk backs over every clip, character change, the change to the ending etc. Ask him if he ever actually understood this story. Show some courage here Harry, don't toss him softball questions. If you look at the last few talk backs the enormous disappointment with what's been released so far is undeniable.
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...and he gives an articulate answer as to why the film can work quite well without the squid, you should go on to tell him that he doesn't get it.
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Tomorrow I get one question, with the possibility of a second. I have the question I want to ask set up, but if I get a second I'll ask about the squid, for sure. But I think I'm getting some time with both Snyder and Gibbons at WonderCon next weekend, so if I don't get a chance to bring it up (and no one else in the group does) I'll probably start off with that line of questioning with the one on two in person. I'm as curious as the rest of you about it.
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What I would specifically like to know is why he waived the flag of a true adaption so passionately then made sweeping changes. Not just the squid, but Nite Owl 2 looking 20 years to young, Veidt also. The group calling themselves "Watchmen", the Comedian now apparently shooting JFK, etc. Also if another ending was to be chose, why not something to do with the 80s. I mean a machine to solve the energy crisis seems very 2009, not early 80s. I would assume he will take the usual cowardly route and claim the script was done before he saw it, which of course would be at odds with his early statements of making a faithful adaption. Basically I would like to see him finally admit that he felt the ending wasn't mainstream enough and the work had to be dumbed down for the general public.
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... if he's losing any sleep over the squid-bitching of anonymous internet folk who haven't seen the film yet. Then again, I'm sure his answer will be no.
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... it would be hugely "ballsy" to ask him a question that's been addressed about 1000 times already and that everyone's already drawn their battle lines over. Go ahead, Quint! Waste your one question by asking about the Squid! Or, you know, ask the question you're actually planning to ask and drop this insane dead end that fanboys keep hammering over and over.
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All are valid points, but before I grill him I need to see the movie and make sure I'm not out of turn. I'm familiar with the original material, so I will certainly be looking out for that stuff, but I have to see if his changes work for the movie. Like, I radically disagree with the people pissed about Tom Bombadil not being in Fellowship, for instance. But, yeah. I know exactly where you're coming from, so I hope the one on one at WonderCon is confirmed... I will have seen the movie by then and would love to get his comments on the departures.
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... that's a given. On everything. Ever. Talkback exists only to give people a place to harp on and on and on about minutiae.
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Drew, I'm not dropping my planned question (which is a good twofer question to make sure Gibbons is involved in the answer as well). Don't worry about that. You're right, though. There have been a couple dozen reports come out from the junket where he addresses it, which is why I'd really like to have seen the movie before discussing it with him or Gibbons.
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That Moriarity and Harry now openly mock the feelings of fanboys. I never thought I would see the day that those who feel passionately about the source material would find themselves on the outside looking in here of all places. You and Harry have sold out on levels I never thought possible.
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Or is it just a gay thing?
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I salute you sir, thank you for being objective.
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Except darker color pallet.
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Fanboys need a bit of mockery, I think. They deserve it. It's one thing to be passionate about a property - Watchmen is one of my favourite books of all time - however, it's quite another to bitch about the surface details before even seeing the damn thing.
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I'm going to watch this Watchmen film like I did V for Vendetta. A big budget fan film.
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This movie will be this decades Batman and Robin, I don't think you will be disappointed.
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But are expressing their concerns over the tonal mistakes evident in the clips that recently debuted.
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After careful consideration of your question, which I'm certain you have meticulously assembled over a period of years and constantly revised with a fine-toothed comb until arriving at what indeed will be The Perfect Question to ask visionary director Zack Snyder and David Gibbons, you should merely crumple up the handmade paper you wrote on with your fountain pen and india ink and toss it to the left of your Sony Playstation 3, next to the bag of Doritos Buffalo Wing & Bleu Cheese Flavor Collisions, and in its stead, interrogate the gracious Snyder about a cephalopod-resembling alien lifeform that serves the purposes of bitter acne-ravaged fandom everywhere to justify the fiction they so crave to religiously honor and worship, because of course, that is what Ain't it Cool News is about...or is it?
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It's hard for even myself to determine if that run-on sentence was sarcastic, and if it was where exactly was it sarcastic, but I'll let Harry be the judge, as he wields the comic-nerd scythe by which we all are judged, and he likes Judge Dredd a lot...and if not, then excuseeee me Judge Reinhold.
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Make a fan edit when it comes out on DVD. Adjust the slow motion into normal motion and CGI in your own squid. Cant be that hard if a few of you get together. The Squid is only in a few shots in the comic.
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I think the sarcasm is pretty up front there, even in print, so no worries about it being lost in the text. My question isn't mind-blowing, but it's one that I haven't seen get much coverage (maybe it has I just haven't seen it) and I like it. Plus, if I threw it away, it'd go into the trash with mini-bags of Harvest Cheddar Sun Chips, not Doritos. FYI. heh
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Remember when all the comic fanboys were up in arms that it couldn't possibly be a decent X-Men adaptation because they didn't wear accurate costumes? The whole movie was going to be crap if they didn't have yellow spandex.Except in the real world, at some point you make yellow spandex costumes and realize how ridiculous they look (note Batman and Robin which did in fact mimic the campy look of comics books).Singer made so the movie would look respectable and not silly. The move paid off. Honestly, I'm not sure how the squid would pay off on screen.
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I don't disagree with you, a little mockery is a good thing. What's shocking is to see such a condenscending tone from those who once proclaimed they were the ultimate fan boys. I would think harry of all people would be up in arms at the changes. Sadly now that personal relationships have been established with those in Hollywood by the powers that be here, now the fan boys face persecution on AiCN?? That seems bizarre to me.
I would also say that to date we have seen about 20-30 minutes of the film, and it's been universally poanned. Check the reastion in th elast talkback to the prision break in footage. It is being bashed as shite by all. There is nothing about that clip that is Watchmen, Nite Owl is now a Ninja in his 20s? What about the various reports, that this web site seems to keep forgetting to comment on, that the individual playing Veidt, arguably the most important performance, is laughably bad? What about changing the ending from the most original and thought provoking conclusion seen in the world of comics, to a cliche blow up the city with Nukes ending we have seen a thousand times over? You really would argue these are surface changes? It's like changing the ending of Jaws and making Hooper the actual killer and saying the shark wasn't that important. -
Feb 23, 2009 12:55:46 AM CST
Ask him about how Carla Gugino feels about being The Fanboy Wank
by dogsoup
The ask Dave what fun stuff he's been doing with the money Alan Moore doesn't want.
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So now if I disagree with the herd, I've sold out? Fine. Call me a sell-out, then, because I think most of the complaints about this film from the online community sum up why it's a lot easier to be a loudmouth comic book fan than it is to actually make a movie adapting this material. I've seen "Watchmen" twice now, and I guarantee the people who will be most shitty about it are the ones who can't see past their own imagined adaptations to actually see the film in front of them.
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C'mon, the Oscars weren't THAT bad this year. Cheer up!
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If you can find one place where I ever referred to myself as a fanboy, much less as "the ultimate fanboy," I will come to your house and service you with both hands and a foot. I think fanboy culture is infantile. I'm a film geek. I love all movies, not just ones that are adapted from something I loved when I was eight years old.
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I had to scare the people of that small town into respecting marine biology!
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I knew you would come through. I wrote it that way so I wouldn't seemed biased but I'll take you over talkbackers every single day of the week. And I was this close to writing Sun Chips, I swear to god, but I am biased in favor of Doritos, to be fair.
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Pretty much every writer on this site except Capone has changed their tune in a big way when it has come to calling out stupid decisions by Hollywood. AICN used to get scoops and report rumors early on. They'd rip horrible scripts. They'd give negative reviews. But now AICN is part of the usual press junket. You get directed marketing material which you regurgitate, and tell the fanboys how they don't have a right to be upset.I took several years of journalism. I work for a newspaper. And frankly, a good interview should consist of asking the questions that people want to know about. In that regard, you'd be remiss not to ask about the ending since he has gone on record saying he has changed it.Then again, Capone is the only guy on this site who knows how to conduct an interview.Quint is probably the worst. His set visit to meet Cruise and Spielberg was especially terrible.
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So you have seen it twice, would you go on record right now to say it's a good film? Would you say the new ending is satisfying?
Also, I'm not bashing you for not agreeing with me. I'm upset that you or Harry of all people would look down on those who expect a certain degree of faithfulness to the source material. To mock those who supported you for so long is a sad thing to see. I was here in old days when Harrys Dad would be on at these hours kicking people off, I remember the old days. I'm not some 13 year old with no background either here or as a film fan. I genuily miss when AiCN was the place to be and you and Harry took on Hollywood. I never thought the day would come when either you or him would become their biggest defenders. It saddens me much more than than it makes me angry. -
Is the fact that all the loudest and sorriest bitches have not even seen the film. I'm sorry, but out-of-context bytes on the web do not really paint an accurate picture of the finished product.
Now, the press embargo means that no full reviews have been published, but I've read many intimations from those that have seen it that it is awesome.
I'm more inclined to believe people that have seen it than people that haven't. That said, I'll reserve my own judgment until next week, but I am in a state of anticipation I haven't felt since before LOTR came out.
I want this film to be awesome, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt until I can see for myself. -
All the Randy McNormals and Rachel DeEverybody who thought The Dark Knight would have been better with tits and gore are going to spread this like herpes. Then count Pro AND Con fanboys who will either go see this movie because they're FUCKING STOKED or to catalogue specific bitches while watching it instead of paying attention to how it plays out. All the above mean no matter what, this movie will kick off the popcorny movie season of 09 with a boot to the crotch. Whether or not you're smiling by the end depends on how much like Alan Moore you think you are. Fuck, if you are going to be like Alan Moore do more of the the Snake God Sex Rituals and less of the You're Pissing On What's Mine rants. It's not yours. It's his. He can bitch and moan all he wants. When we do it it's a cynical circle jerk. In conclusion, Carla Gugino.
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Get used to it!!!
Watchmen is a book. If what Zack chooses to happen in the film that is different than what happens in book works for his film(the film that was made) you will just have to except that or be a crazy rambling loon. Watch the film that was made and not the one you would rather be seeing. -
What's I'm seeing is WEAK I TELL YAH! WEAK. The Watchmen won't be that good, making shit slow-mo w/ a dark palate =/= Watchmen.
It's also true what's being said about the turnaround in AICN, so much Hollywood support, yeah I understand everyone got bills to pay, but it would be nice if once in a while truth comes out. Quint is cool tho. -
Feb 23, 2009 1:23:16 AM CST
Ask about Dave Gibbons and Alan Moore's relationship
by cannabis holocaust
Particularly after Moore's comments that he will be "spitting venom" at the film in the press and refuses to see it. Ask if Gibbons believes that Moore is overreacting or justified and if Moore's behavior is disrespectful to their past collaboration and his choice to champion the film. Stir up some drama.
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... I would be more than happy to say that I think the film is really, really good, and I think the new ending is thematically satisfying and of a piece with the entire film.
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... with Drew's comments re: fanboys. Nothing's ever good enough.
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Feb 23, 2009 1:38:29 AM CST
Ask Dave Gibbons to storyboard some Rogue Trooper visuals
by biggusdickus
...Then us his royalties off this to get a Rogue Trooper movie off the ground. Hollywood needs more blue guys!
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Putting aside it's merit as an adaptation, can it possibly match TDK as a cinematic experience? And if not, what comic-based film would you say it's most similar to in terms of quality? Just a yes or no would be fine Moriarty.
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Did you love it as much as Speed Racer? :)
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I, for one, have always respected your POV. Thanks for giving your perspective on the film.It is appreciated amidst all of the back and forth that's been taking place.
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The Comedian visited original silk after he tried to rape her and I presume they had consensual sex making the second silk. So why did Mommy Silk still hate him while her daughter was a teen? I realize why she kissed the picture of him in the end but why did she still hate him while he was alive? Did I miss something?
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I always read it that she didn't know where the Comedian would draw the line when it came to Laurie and she felt that he might not have been above hitting on his own daughter."I know what you are Edward Blake, I've always known what you are!" or words to that effect.
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Here's a quote taken from the "Probe Profile" included at the end of the 9th issue of Watchmen: "I...Look, I don't bear any grudges. That's all. I know I should, everybody tells me I should but...look, I don't have to justify this, ok?" The quote continues from there, and Sally Jupiter states that she feels she conributed to the rape in some fshion, that perhaps she wanted it to happen. She states she's uncertain about her feelings regarding the rape. Now her daughter? She HATED the Comedian with all her heart.
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Must suck loving someone you cant allow yourself being close to because they are a screw ball. But it was probably just physical attraction... Comedian is a stud who can make you laugh... HOT!
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...and his response has always been and more than likely will continue to be because of the theatrical release not having the Black Freighter storyline included. Which negates the point of bringing a friggin squid monster from a pirate comic as it helps tie Adrian Veidt, the Black Freighters creator turning up missing, and the squid. Watching the film without the Black Freighter would make the squid scene come off utterly ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, the squid is utter ridiculous in the first place but within context of the entire story with the Black Freighter and its creator - it makes more sense. I can totally see the Squid being practical in the directors cut where they've planned putting the Black Freighter scenes back in. So if the question is going to be ask with the intent of not getting the same cookie cutter response from Zack... ask him if the Squid will appear in the directors cut since it ties in with Black Freighter scenes being added back in.
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...and his response has always been and more than likely will continue to be because of the theatrical release not having the Black Freighter storyline included. Which negates the point of bringing a friggin squid monster from a pirate comic as it helps tie Adrian Veidt, the Black Freighters creator turning up missing, and the squid. Watching the film without the Black Freighter would make the squid scene come off utterly ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, the squid is utter ridiculous in the first place but within context of the entire story with the Black Freighter and its creator - it makes more sense. I can totally see the Squid being practical in the directors cut where they've planned putting the Black Freighter scenes back in. So if the question is going to be ask with the intent of not getting the same cookie cutter response from Zack... ask him if the Squid will appear in the directors cut since it ties in with Black Freighter scenes being added back in.
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director. Wouldn't that be a director of the ideas of other people who are visionaries?
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and nothing else.
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for three tickets. 13. If you don't think we are justified in bitching about minutiae, you have lost your way.
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Watchmen world premier tonight in "London's Leicester Square" , apparently.(that's pronounced "Lester")Meet the stars (from 5pm)Enjoy the drizzleGo to Chinatown just before and buy one of those orange squids they hang in the restaurant windows and wave it at Billy Crudup.
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The idea of "fanboy culture" is just...alarming. The idea of being proud of the stereotypes that people ascribe to the modern internet-dwelling geek is just disturbing. Geek pride is one thing. Pride in being an overreacting snob who rejects out of hand anything that conflicts with their feelings about whatever crap they choose to obsess over is not a virtue. If every movie that "fanboys" bitched about actually ended up sucking, none of you would still be coming here. Film as an industry and an art form would be dead, especially genre cinema.
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that's good enough for me - he's usually on the money.
Although I have to admit the clips I'd seen online had me terrified - don't play well out of context, I'm hoping. -
animations for sucking dick and kissing ass yet? Quint, I think you can do a /emote and type them in as text... Oh and add "in slow motion" BTW if you Quincy Zack Snyder, you'd be a legend forever.
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is it indeed a take on batman and robin and ask him if the clips that have been released have been heavily edited, and will rorshach still measure the comedian's closet with the coat hanger
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wha happened????
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...what other comic adaptations is Zack considering for the future, and what comic does Dave Gibbons think could make a great movie?
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What then of the general consensus here in like clips we saw yesterday that the clips we've seen seem so off key in tone to what the Watchmen comic is? We've all heard the first twenty minutes are astounding... But please, offer us hope given that so many of us saw that clip yesterday and were embarrassed by it.
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Look, none of us who wanted an adaptation ultimately care about changing things or even the end ultimately as long as thematically it's the same, but the clips we've seen feature such generic rap rock metal bullshit, cliched and frankly boring action, and characters performing superheroics where there aren't supposed to be any, along with some questionable casting and acting choices. You think it's knee jerk fanboyism, but from where I'm sitting - I loved and was unbelievably excited by what you wrote about Paul Greengrass' version, even with all the radical changes. I wish you'd write more about that at Hitfix, what you saw and how it compares to Snyder's version. I don't think it's out of line to question a very simple contextual question that Moore himself has: how could someone who directed 300 have the same thematic interests and viewpoint as the story Watchmen is about? He said Hayter did a great job, and so did you. The film looks undoubtedly faithful visually, but what they've shown us so far does not inspire.
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Eveything's looking and sounding perfectly on-key to me. I'm happy with a 'Matrix 1' type of Watchmen movie, as long as it's done well, rather than a comptelely 'Taxi Driver' Watchmen that nobody except a handful of talkbackers would ever watch more than once. The thing's also rated R, something I never thought we'd get, but of course most you guys need to complain about movies like the rest of us need air to breathe, so it looks like everybody's happy, technically.
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don't walk into the talkback saying you liked Watchmen... fanboys will try to prove you wrong even though THEY haven't seen it!
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stickman, like Moriarty never held his "Jedi Council" articles before new Star Wars films came out? it's the nature of the beast to debate this stuff, and yeah admittedly on talkback it gets out of hand with the most insane extreme online hyperbole, but our traditions here tend to be pretty extreme - i mean goddamn, we take seriously a guy named dickblood who is always always trying to sneak in talk of anal play. but i think the things i'm asking are fair given the number of people who said of yesterday's clip "that was not cool, nor very watchmen"
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i missed it.Damn.and i wanted to ask Snyder if he used lube when raping Mr Alan Moores masterpiece.
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...opening night/IMAX/ the whole nine yards. but has anyone else pointed out the similarity between WM and Miller's Spirits beginnings? "if I don't do it, some other hack who doesn't care about the source material will do it!"..or something to that effect. And we all know how that turned out.
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Perhaps we'd be more inclined to be looking forward to this film if: a) Snyder hadn't said it was completely faithful, then changed elements that he personally didn't like... thus ignoring the point of the piece. b) There wasn't generic rock music. c) The acting in the clips made available, by the fucking WB, wasn't poor save for JEH Stand up on your podium knocking us all you want, and ignore how many of us liked the changes made to X-Men... and Batman... and Iron Man. Because they kept the heart of the source material, and never said they were making a completely faithful adaptation. If you like the film, great. But pulling a TB attitude and saying everyone whose criticising it is 'wrong' just makes you look like an ass whose upset that his new site requires constant AICN promotions to get bountiful hits.
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I've adapted countless comic-book characters into unproduced scripts. I agree that it is hard, but I also think it's idiotic to tell people 'I'm 100% faithful' because... news flash... then I'd sound like an asshole.
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The acting WAS poor save for JEH. Veidt was terrible.
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Why would you be unhappy with a film only a few people saw? If this strike BO gold, they WILL make a sequel. They've even said most of the core people did sign a 'will return for sequel' contract. And don't think WB has any qualms about doing that.
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Ask Mr Snyder this:
since they removed the squid from the movie,Silver Silk 2 doesnt smoke,black freighter is a separate animated film,Dr Manhattan doesnt hang around with his dick out,the scenes where SS2 and Nite Owl save the people from the burning building,and go to the prison to free Rorscharch,dont follow the intended atmosphere of the GN,since the fact that a videogame prequel of the movie is being made,a sequel might be made too,watchmen condoms and coffees are being sold,since all the above are a reality,then ask Mr Snyder:
Isnt Mr Alan Moore a bit justified for not wanting to have any kind of participation with Hollywood,the film producers,this movie and its director? -
Watchmen got 4 stars.
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Brilliant post! It's refreshing to see other's are seeing these things also.
Don't foget that Snyder hired on a composer know for blatantly stealing others work and taking credit for it, has inserted his son as a young Rorscach, has completely and totally changed Nite Owl 2 beyond any recognition of what was in the GN and transformed him into the most obvious batman rip off ever, has the Comedian openly shooting JFK, etc. etc. I can't wait till this is all over and Snyder can go back to walking around arcades announcing the chance of a Donkey Knog Kill Screen coming up. -
^ See what I did there?
Frankly I think some of you guys miss the point. The 'squid' was never a squid at all, it was a multi-limbed alien thing, which has been referred to as a squid by fans for years. It doesn't require the Black Freighter to make it work, (it does however require the artists/writers on the boat storyline)
The reason it is important is that Veidt's plan requires all the nations of the world to unite under a common enemy. i.e. ALIENS. Dr M doesn't count as he is still fundementally an American man transformed into an American superhero who works for the American government.
To clarify, how many times have Arab nations condemned the actions of the Taliban and other terrorist units? And yet Western nations still mistrust almost all Arabs. Dr M is a poorer choice as scapegoat as he is not only a familiar part of life in that universe but also an American symbol, and there's no way that other nations wouldn't suspect that it was a US plot to gain world dominance at the expense of a few million lives. Just look at how many people STILL believe that the US had a hand in 9/11.
The 'squid' takes that away and makes for a completely believable new alien threat. That's why it works, that's why regardless of how well the new plot works out, it's still flawed.
p.s. I think it's going to be a great film anyway. Also fuck Alan Moore he's an arrogant ass. -
So is this thing on in less than an hour? I want to know if I should stay up to watch this thing or go to bed.
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I hate these talkback forms.
But anyway, when I was reading the spoilers regarding the ending, the way I read it wasn't that it was Dr. Manhattan's energy that was the 'weapons' but rather the energy that made Dr. M.
Now imagine, if you will, that instead of one American here that is omniscient/omnipotent you have thousands of all races and nationalities, that immediately after they re-coalesce they tell people to stop, it's okay, I understand now. That's what I'm hoping for. -
Moriarty is the only person in the entire fucking talkback that makes any goddamned sense. Grow up, nerds. Tell me - why do you want this movie to fail?
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they'll just go "we don't want it to fail, we wanted it to be great but it isn't what we EXACTLY wanted!!!"... seriously, this is getting ridiculous. for instance: it's been said REPEATEDLY that Manhattan walks around with his dick for all to see, yet ominous still lists it as something ommited. and I wonder, exactly WHAT is the importance of Manhattan's dick to the overall story of Watchmen? I want a complete SQUID-like explanation, please.
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Hey I don't want it to fail. I'd just like a full and proper explaination of why they didn't use the 'squid' ending. I'm prepared to take the film on it's own merits and will probably really enjoy it. But Snyder has dissembled, obfusticated and generally wormed his way out of explaining why he changed it. (understandable when he wants the film to do well and doing big interviews about the surprise finale twist isn't going to help)
If they've come up with a novel and cool ending which is better than Veidt blowing up some Blue energy bombs all over the world and blaming Doc M, then all well and good, but for the reason's I've stated it can't simply be 'lets all unite against Blue dude' as it's a flawed concept and would only work on a fragment of the globe, whereas a giant terrifying alien accidentally splatting itself into New York, not only gets all of mankind scared of the Mega-alien threat, but also makes them band together as a species against a foreign invader. A superhuman Yank? I'm sorry but no. It just doesn't work. -
quint's already explained everything... well, not EVERYTHING (why isn't the squid in the movie? hahaha) but he said he made a mistake and the thingamagig is in two more hours.
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I'm going to bed till it starts.
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But not of trix.
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I'm right there with you sister... not literally... that sounded bad, but you know what I mean. I could have used the two extra hours of sleep, believe you me. Now I'm awake, but exhausted... teach me to be a night owl (yuk-yuk-yuk).
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Moore doesn't need any justification to disassociate himself from the film. Certainly not some of your examples which really wouldn't be missed in the graphic novel if Gibbons went back and redrew some of the panels because he felt like it Moore's a big boy now, financially comfortable, pretty disinterested in media bandwagons and would basically need a good reason to associate himself with it.The self-appointed cult of Moore acting like a bunch of screaming fundamentalists is frankly pretty scary.Would be interesting to see Moore's take on this sort of bilious hysteriaHe's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy (at least based on his Oz-"de-secrating" Dorothy ruderies)Yes, it will be a 3 stars out of 5 film at best. We get it. And will get over it in about 5 seconds flat.Nothing in the film detracts from the bookBranagh's Frankenstein didn't ruin the book, nor did Lynch's Dune (which I suspect will be the nearest film relative to this one - spectacularly and mesmerisingly unwatchable over many viewings)If you love the book that much, you should know the film could never be the same as it or match what you like about itNext!
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I hate fanboys as well. I hate the acid-spitting incoherent jerkoffs posting "I hate this" in every TB for every movie, ever. Preach on brother.
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is a choob. His fame has gone to his head in the worst possible way, he's decided that his comics are untranslatable to film, which is utter tripe and he's the worst sort of Prima Donna.
I still think he's a fantastic writer, but loving the art and loving the artist are not mutually dependent, and the sooner people realise that the less hero-wank we'd have to put up with here.
Also who else here reckons that Cliff B (of Gears of War fame) and Zack spend weekends together calling each other 'dude' and drinking beer while jacking off to hugely muscled men standing in front of slo-motion explosions? Just me then... -
Hey, sounds to me like that would be something you'd get AFTER YOU WATCHED THE FUCKING MOVIE. For fuck's sake, Kizeesh, you answered your own goddamned question, moron - Snyder's not talking about it because it's THE END OF THE MOVIE. You got that? THE END OF THE FUCKING MOVIE. What director in their right mind gives away the ending to their blockbuster two weeks before it's released? The average person doesn't give fuck one about the squid, so why bother? To appease the geeks? Please. Like he needs to give them any more reasons to hate his movie BEFORE THEY'VE EVEN SEEN IT. There's no reason at all Snyder could, would, or should have to explain ANYTHING now.Patience is a virtue, morons. It's 11 days. Suck it up.
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Wow, you're still sore from your step-dad's dick in your ass after all these years?
You're right, I did offer a possible explaination for his reticence, but he could simply have said 'wait for the dvd commentary' or something similar. I'm also amazed that you're attempting to talk down to me for saying something you agree with.
Also nice attempt at tbeing the common man, but since when did 'the average person' read the talkbacks on this site. I'd like to hear why they changed it, i've said why and made it very clear what my reservations are in the matter.
What's your reason for trying to shut me up? best be careful, you may bust a stitch and then you'll get blood on your new underwear... -
He's in the crawlspace! Get out of the house now!
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I would prefer greatness, as the GN was. Oh, well. Somebody will make a 6 hour film of this one day.
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You do realize that if he talks about it AT ALL, it's going to leak to other places besides this site, right? It's not like he's gonna lean over and sexily whisper it in your ear or anything, you know. He's keeping his mouth shut to ALL comers, and rightfully so. Again, why the hell should he go on record talking about the ending? In summary, watch the fucking movie. Until you have and actually have something to critique, quit your goddamned whining.
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I think the 'faithful adaptation' kick has played itself out. What does that really mean, anyway? 'Sin City' is the most faithful adaptation I've ever seen of a comic book movie and Rodriguez and Miller still made changes -- because the mediums are similar doesn't make them interchangeable. 'Watchmen' is metafiction; it's a self-aware comment on superhero comics. So, wouldn't a film adaptation be a comment on superhero movies? If the drama doesn't work, sorry folks, the squid won't help. But, if it works? Well, I haven't seen the lizard in the 'Spider-Man' franchise and that didn't stop 'Spider-Man 2' from being one of the best comic 2 film adaptations on film. Or should I be whining about 'organic web shooters'?
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"Countless unproduced scripts"??? Dude, get a life! You sound like a crazy fan fic writer. Why the hell would you write comic book adaptations if you're not a paid writer? Specially "countless of them". Plus I bet once Watchmen comes out it'll be better than all your "countless unproduced scripts"
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I'm having far too much fun winding you up...
You've evidently not read what I've posted properly, and from your constant use of Caps, I'm guessing that you missed your ritalin today and your sister's wheelchair is too far away for you to hit her instead, so you're taking out the aggro online like a good little keyboard commando.
If you scroll up, you'll see that I haven't criticised anything. I've offered my opinion on what I've heard, with the proviso that I think the film will be great anyway and I'll judge it on it's own merits.
But again I ask you, why shouldn't I ask? Why shouldn't anyone. If it had leaked out that Peter Jackson had ended ROTK with Frodo and Gollum having a quick chat and then deciding neither of them wanted the ring, then fans would quite rightly want to know why he thought it was such a change.
What's your damage with the question as a whole, or are you so insecure that you see any question as an attack? Speaks volumes mate, maybe you need to talk to someone. A councillor or maybe a shrink, about your troubles. Because it sounds like you've got enough issues to warrant a subscription. -
I don't think Moore has changed that much from the 80s. If you remember he began avoiding comic conventions in part because of the fanboys who would lecture him about minutiae when they still 'lived with their mum.' He's pretty consistent in his focus, i.e. what can comics do that other media cannot do? He's not into the 'industry' but, I think dedicated to the artform.
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Crazy fan-fic writer? Get a life? I have a life. I'm writing and steadily improving. So while I bitch on Talkbacks, I'm doing something constructive. Why would I write them if I wasn't paid to? Because I love writing, and I like comic-books, and I challenge myself to be a better writer by doing difficult things. Not to mention the fact that my Masters project is centred around writing an adaptation of a comic-book - but I guess that's not indicative of a 'life', so maybe I should be like you and slam people on talkbacks without achieving much of note creatively in my own right?
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(case in point: kizeesh) compare the squid to plot points like Frodo and Gollum at Mount Doom, or not having the shark in Jaws. the squid could've been ANYTHING! as long as it A) killed thousands, and B) was an alien/outside threat to the world. I know you say Manhattan can't be a threat to the whole world (since he's american), but that's exactly what WATCHING THE MOVIE WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU. I'm pretty, PRETTY sure it's not as simple as you paint it. IN CONCLUSION: WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE BEFORE YOU JUDGE! although I'd much rather see you guys move along and forget about this, since whatever the movie is, you will hate it anyway.
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I love this 'you'll hate the film regardless' rant. I'm paying my £3.50 to see it (Welsh price), and while I have low expectations I'm not going to say it sucked if it didn't.
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I don't think he's changed, he's always been like this. However he's certainly gotten worse, or at least more vocal. The recent crop of bad adaptations hasn't helped either (not a surprise).
But I disagree with most of his "Comics can do so much more than film" rhetoric. Since most of his comics do very little that couldn't be easily translated to film perfectly. I'll give him the layout of Tyger Tyger from Watchmen, as the composition of that is brilliant and clever, but even that could be re-worked to do the same cinematically, as essentially it's a matter of visual design implementation.
pfft anyway, he's just a village nutter who happens to be great at writing comics. I'm happy to ignore him, his silly beard, affected use of a cane and calling himself a magician so long as he churns out decent script for comics. -
Although a flash mob of 100 people in squid costumes at the US premier would be pretty cool.
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you see, you had a decent point, but you blew it by suggesting I'd hate the film. I've never said anything other than positive things about it. I just don't think the ending "That I've heard replaces the original" was flawed. As I also said, way up the page, that if it's more intelligent than that then hey, I'll be happy.
In conclusion, read a little closer, and don't judge me until you've paid attention to my words. I'm also not a fanboy, I'm a professional critic. It's my job to pick things apart. (the piercing wit and insults are a bonus) -
Are you visiting or are you *back*? Please please PLEASE reply that you're back at AICN--where you belong. You have been MISSED, my friend. Nothing against the rest of the AICN team, but AICN ain't the same without you.That stated, the only thing that has worried me about the WATCHMEN climax change is making the worldwide threat/epiphany terrestrial and anthropomorphic and AMERICAN in nature. I'd be eager to read a few specifics about how the film jumped this rather tall hurdle (and I'm not being sarcastic--genuinely am excited about the film and only desire my one big qualm about it to be set at ease). Thanks, Mori.
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is to show a complete lack of understanding of both this story and the mans work. It's one thing to debate if Snyder is either a complete hack or possibly slightly better than Schumaker, but to condone Moore because he has wisely disascioated himself with this project after Snyders changes is in bad form. Moore has of yet said nothing and has given Snyder full reign to do what he wishes. To me that's a class act, Snyder is the one who declared he could make this movie and it was only him who could bring a faithful adaption to the screen. After the footage was released yesterday of the jail break I witnessed first hand several strong Snyder supports crumble and admit defeat, how the hell could you not?
Where in the GN did Nite Owl ever glide exactly like Batman? Where was he portrayed as a 20 something Ninja in great shape? It's one thing to focus on his idiotic change of the ending, but there are plenty of other red flags here also. I love that the only thing left for the few Snyder apologisits, ironically like the 300 in a talk back where the vast majority have already turned there back on this abortion, is to wait and see the film, it can't be that bad. Wow, that's hype folks. -
(I'll apologize for the title in advance) Well, I'm a film geek and my biases lean toward that, but, film and comics are very, different. The use of sound and movement, are pretty major differences. Plus, you can reread a chapter of a comic, but, screaming at the projectionist to reload the 3 reel just pisses people off in the theatre. Didn't somebody get shot recently for that? Both mediums can inspire each other but, a direct page to page translation doesn't work. Read Garth Ennis' Preacher script and you'll see what I mean.
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Well you are a fiesty little guy eh? To be blunt, no the squid neede dto be the squid, your inability to understand that does not validate Snyders trainwreck of a movie or make it ok to dumb down great literature. Yes I know, the GN had a lot of reading and confusing things going on and I'm sure that bothered you. You apparently like your fanstasy spoon fed to you with no thinking and a complete abscene of symbolism, metaphors, and motifs. Enjoy tjhis movie when it comes out sir, I'm sure there will be plenty of seats. Also, please let us know when another Donkey Kong Kill screen is coming up.
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Oh--as for asking Snyder a question: there's nothing I'm jonesing to know about, frankly, at least from him. Snyder may be a competent--even an excellent--director (the jury's still out on that), but he DEFINITELY has atrocious PR skills. Every interview with him is like a maddening scene out of Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey. I know Snyder's not a moron, but he IS poorly spoken and tends to speak in circles in response to any question I've ever heard (or read) posed to him. And it's not his job to be a great PR man. I'll judge the film by what I see in a couple of weeks. Thanks, though.
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it's actually "wait and see the film, those who HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN IT say it's great". Kizeesh/Zeddemore: fine, I admit I went over the top with the "YOU'LL FUCKING HATE IT" thing, and I'm glad one will see the film, and the other thinks I have a point.
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EVERYBOBY!!!
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dancingforever, how *fanboyish* of you. like, you totally put me in my place dude! could you please enlighten me some more?
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And a misfired flashmob of 3 people dressed as squids with placards would be entertaining, too.
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And for the record he was offered 'Watchmen'. Also, Alan Moore has repeatedly stated he wants nothing to do with the film industry. I think the quote was: I hate the movie industry because if I make a bad comic, it does not cost a hundred million dollars, which is the budget of an emergent small third world African nation. And this is money that could have gone to alleviating some of the immense suffering in this world but has instead gone to giving bored, apathetic, lazy, indifferent Western teenage boys another way of killing 90 minutes of their interminable and seemingly pointless lives." Ouch. Then after the court battle over "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" which had nothing to do with him (he didn't write the screenplay, wasn't involved) he became even more bitter. Snyder deserves the benefit of the doubt. I'll see the film with all the clips in context. If I don't dig it, well, I've still got my 12 issues.
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Some CGI dude walkin around sim style.
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The time is right, most of us are gathered (virtually) and they're running final tech checks. There is a possibility of delaying until 10:30am CST because both Gibbons and Snyder are at the UK junket and it's possible they might run long, but right now we're assuming everything's going to be on at 10am CST. Stay Tuned!
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What with this virtual world? Can you open up a virtual shop and sell virtual hats for a real living?
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A lot of the problems recently are due to people confusing virtual mortgages and virtual debt with real house values and realisable debt.Little bit of politics. Who said I'm out of touch? (I blame Thatcher's Reaganomics)
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Was it projected digitally?
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Reminds me of Chase fleeing to France after the end of the Sopranos.
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Let's talk about what we have both seen. What are your thoughts on the jailbreak scene that has been universally panned in the other thread. Are you willing to defend that?
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if I say I liked it, you'll say "then you're an idiot". if I say I didn't, then you'll say "then you know I'm right". it's no use talking to those who are not willing to concede anything.
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Or they'll begin to lose folks. Don't understand why they don't start without Snyder and Gibbons. I'd love to see/hear the critics/writers discuss WATCHMEN amongst themselves.
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It's his now... he owns it, he owns you all! I'm pissed that the book isn't like the movie. Alan Moore really fucked up is adaptation!
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wasn't bad. But it also seemed waaay over the top and predictable. There was no tension. No danger. Just beautiful, overly choreographed and flashy hand to hand action. Dan and Laurie should fight dirty--and efficiently. And when fighting a group that large, they should be heaving and sweating with effort. That stated, I'm just talking about that one brief clip. In the context of the whole, I may be happy. In fact, I've felt mostly positive about the other WATCHMEN clips I've seen (aside from the heavy handed use of fast/slo-mo).
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This'll probably be finished by the time I get home.... Otherwise I'd jump onto PS home.
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Who's the surly bald guy?
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This (the Playstation interview thing) is going to be a shambles I think. I'm sure some guy just shouted "Where did the squid go?" and now there's no one talking again...
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Is the bald man we're staring at?
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Like Halloween 3 it should be a literal interpretation of the title. When I see a title like "Watchmen" I think Jewish Watchmaker.
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You need to introduce yourselfs.
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I'm sure the power personalities (if any) will begin to assert themselves shortly. Some of these folks need to modulate their vocal volume!
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i am going to play Gears of Wars 2 multiplayer on xbox live
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Interesting question. Get some sleep after this thing, bud. You sounded fine but exhausted.
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Getting sick of looking at the bald avatar. Visually this is not working.
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JESUS CHRIST,he is the fuckin artist not the writer of the GN.
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never satisfied.
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that would be fuckin cool,if done.
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For anyone else or just lucky old me?
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multiple writers would be asking question. The moderator is absolutely dominating the interview. Bad form.
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Try http://tinyurl.com/d9loru
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For the people (me) who are at work and can't view the live feed? I don't even care if you leave out the other questions. I'd just like to know what you ask and what the response is.
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Um, yeah dude,it is definitely a McGuffin in the true Hitchcock definition.
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what's the point of watching a bunch of motionless avatars from the back of another (bold) motionless avatar? If only the camera moved to show the speaker or something...
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Uuuuuh.... totally, uuuuh, awesome, dude! Like, wow!Softball questions, guys (e.g., how do you feel about your great decision to use unknown actors?). Like, really. Uuuuuh. Yeah.
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it would be great if we could see it using ps3 and not like this.
we just get the image from the moderators television. -
But it's my connection that's fucked. I give up.
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believe me.
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Um, no its NOT a mcguffin. A mcguffin is like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction which drives the film and people everywhere want it and want whats inside of it, but its just a device to drive characters and story around it. The Squid is the END RESULT of a master plan by VEDIT that directly changes the world perspective and pulls them away from conflict from each other and into love against a common OUTSIDE foe. If this is Doc Manhattan and his "manhattan bombs" then you turn the world against a human who becomes superman and not an outside alien threat off world. It destroys the master plan because doc can see the future!! do you not think he would know what Veidt was doing? the radiation from the arctic the device was putting off interferes with doc AFTER the device is launched. This has so many holes you could kill your self.
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Seriously. Is he fucked up? Oh, right. He always sounds like a stoned 16 year old boy.
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good one
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That last response from Snyder is going to cause a backlash.
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oh boy...
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because these net blogging dickhead nobodies want to keep receiving invites to this kind of shit.
and they'll keep chugging cock to stay on the guest list.
this interview format is lame btw.
all i'm seeing are the backs of virtual peoples' heads.
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Dude is out there... Vapid!
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More squid!Not enough time to film the squid. Where would the slo-mo go otherwise?Oh FUCK YOU, moderator! "You've been SO faithful to the source material. Don't you get ANNOYED at these incessant questions." FUCK. YOU. Brown-nosing shitheel.
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I agree the squid is the end result for the comics narrative momentum, but the film seems to follow the idea that the threat is from Dr. Manhattan himself. If Veidt can suggest to the public that Dr. Manhattan gives people cancer, then Jon (who is no longer human) is essentially 'alien' enough to threaten the planet. Doc can see the future (unless bombarded by tachyons) so, he is also a threat to Viedt's plans. Like Laurie says to him in the script "You mean your planet.' That's why the squid is a McGuffin.
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...is that if Snyder will be a GOD with all of you if you walk in on opening day and there is a different cut of the movie than has been previously screened, with the squid in it.
The irony (well, not really irony) of it being a secret, in parallel to the artists creating the squid in the comic book would be off the charts. -
the squid isnt a mcguffin because it is not know to Rorscach,whom though him,we watch the story as it progresses.
mcguffin must be known to the characters and something trivial. -
Did anyone catch that incoming message? "Blue penis gay?"
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More entertaining than the Q & A
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and vocal mannerisms are MADDENING!
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because he is an artist,not a whore for money.
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Well, the McGuffin is something extremely important to the characters but its not trivial. Rorschach's quest is to find who is killing costumed heros. The reveal is the horrifying implications of Adrien's plan. Not the squid, but that Adrian is a psychopath. And, that he's 'right'.
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That's it? What a generally brown-nosing, lightweight "group" interview. Quint, I did like your question, but most of the questions (and answers) were shallow if not absolutely fawning. Ugh.
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I think the best revelation was the possible theatrical release of the directors cut in NY and LA. Black Freighter only on DVD though?
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So I sort of fudged my question, didn't I? In my defense right before we started I was told the guy sitting next to me was to have the first question, so it was a shock when they called on me first. What flustered me even more was that I had structured the question for both Zack and Dave, so when it was just Dave I was trying to ask it while reconstructing it for one person. Oh well. At least it started off an interesting dialogue about the almost versions.
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in the hitchcoks strict meaning.well according to hitchock its something trivial,unimportant.
check wikipedia for that.
well the squid ISNT trivial in the comics story.
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trivial and unimportant in what it IS, not what it DOES. the way it affects the story IS important, but it could've been any other thing (that had the same effect) and it wouldn't change the story. hence, THE SQUID IS A MACGUFFIN.
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To me, Lynch always said the Killer in twin peaks was the Mcguffin. It drove the story, it was elusive and allowed you to see the characters and enjoy the town. you were never supposed to get the answer (Like the Pulp Fiction Briefcase). So now, if we remade TP and instead of an inter dimensional killer Bob from "Another place" red room with other spirits and creamed corn...you had Leland Palmer have a split personality or be brainwashed like the Manchurian candidate or have been set up by Deputy Andy. Changes the ENTIRE ending of the story, same result - Leland killed laura and didnt know it, but what does that do to the whole thing now?
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You did fine, especially considering the awkward PS3 setup.
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Lynch said "WHO killed laura palmer' was the mcguffin - not the how or why.
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the squid represents an ALIEN RACE,with its intention to destroy earth.so it is not only what it does,but what is too.a higher threat to the planets safety.
if new york was destroyed by an atomic bomb,what would usa goverment think? that aliens destroyed NY,or ussr? -
I enjoyed it.
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Correct sir! So, if the world is at midnight on the nuclear clock, living with nuclear war for months, and a nuclear doctor Manhattan bomb strikes world capitals world wide. wouldn't everyone assume everyone else in the world did it to them? How does everyone pointing a finger at Doctor Manhattan resolve world tensions of attack when it could be guessed he was working for all countries or any country? Everyone would launch all salvos at everyone else. Now an ALIEN attack by a giant creature from outer or parallel space represents horror and an OUTSIDE threat.
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I thought you did fine. Sadly, the Q&A did nothing to make things better IMO. Every new piece of evidence we get form thsi film, be it the horrible footage from the prison break, or this Q&A, makes it harder to believe this will be watchable. I really hope I am worng and this movie will be great but that's almost impossible when you look at what's been changed. The simple fact that Nite owl 2 is now a watered down Batman, not a mid 40s impotent loser, goes a long way to showing who this movie is for. It's not, nor was it ever, for the core fans of this work or evne the casual geek. No sir, it's targeted at Dark Knight Money, plain and simple, and the Watchmen in essence is completely opposite.
To those who keep saying McGuffin. I know it's fun to find a new word to use, but seriously guys to act like the squid is a McGuffin is on par with saying John Goodman is a McGuffin in Barton Fink. -
well said man,really well said.
but hey we have to sell toys and condoms,maybe the squid is too frightening for the kids or maybe too childish for the adults. -
I, for one, love the passion. I've been there myself and might be joining you after tonight when I see the movie. I think was Drew was getting upset about is the tone of these talkbacks, with people up in arms over something they have no context for... yet. All your points are valid if they play out like you have them playing out. I didn't watch the fight clip because I'm seeing the movie today, so why watch a piece out of context so close to the theatrical experience? Maybe I'll agree with you. The way you describe it isn't at all flattering. I will say that context is everything.I'm not sucking anybody's dick. I don't gain or lose one single thing if I love or hate the movie. I'm just going in hoping for the best, a movie that respects the source material but is able to do it in the same way Peter Jackson did on LOTR, which was capture the tone, meaning and characters, give them respect and present them in the most cinematic way possible. That's what I'm looking for in the movie. Maybe it won't live up to that standard. I'll know in just about 10 hours.
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Yeah, I agree. The problem isn't that they've removed the squid. The problem (potentially) is that their new solution isn't the squid's equivalent (i.e., (a non-humanoid, alien threat). In fact, essentially nuking cities around the world via Doc M's energy signature is a solution riddled with a myriad of logic issues.Look, I want this film to succeed. And I want to like the intrinsic plot change they've made. I do. I'm not a squid or nothing kind of guy. But no one has yet made a convincing argument that the film adaptation change is a good or even sensible one. I'll wait to reserve final judgment till after I see the film, of course, but I'm not optimistic about that one (and crucial) change. Everything else I've seen seems potentially fine to me. We'll see.
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I wash my hands off you guys. All I'll say is that any explanation for why Dr. Manhattan's energy signature (or whatever it is they use) works in the movie will have to be seen IN the movie... until then, I can't really know, can I? And another thing... you keep saying that the squid can't be replaced with Manhattan... but could it be replaced with something else? for instance, if it was spaceships suddenly appearing and exploding? it would be alien and affecting the whole world... right? wouldn't then the squid still be a macguffin? that's the point I'm trying to make now... the squid IS a macguffin. you don't like what it's being replaced with. I'm outta here!
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Also thanks to KurtLockwood for basically re-iterating my arguments in a long and composed argument. Saves me some time.
Also a MacGuffin: is a plot device that motivates the characters or advances the story, but the details of which are of little or no importance otherwise.
The squid was the twist and unexpected moment, not a MacGuffin. the McG in Watchmen is the non-existant plot to assassinate Masked heroes, which Rorshach follows for most of the GN.
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I believe they're going to send out clips and and MP3 of the whole discussion tonight. I'll update this article when I receive them for those who missed it live.
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The squid COULD be replaced by it's equivalent (i.e., a non-anthropomorphic, non-terrestrial threat that brings the world together). Doc M, though, doesn't cut it for reasons that have been reasonably posed for many months. I think a lot of anti-squid folks are stuck on the notion that the rest of us are insisting on the squid and nothing but the squid. That's simply not true.Now I may be wrong about the change. You're right, stickman. There's no way for us to know till we see it. But that works both ways. We'll all be able to have an informed opinion backed up by evidence very shortly in any case.
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Yes, it works both ways, I could be wrong as well. That's something I can agree on =)
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One more time for mother russia!
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Understand your point, although I feel that the big revelation about the squid isn't as important as Adrien's motives for creating it. The scope of his plan devastates the characters, not the alien animal so much. Let's see how it plays in the movie.
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Feb 23, 2009 11:55:37 AM CST
How many times are they going to be asked squid questions?
by knowthyself
They've answered them. Enough is enough. Stop kicking a dead horse. ITS DEAD. Their is no squid and will never be one. Just like their will never be a scouring of the shire in LOTR. Spidey will always have organic web shooters. And in most action films the main characters never run out of bullets.
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second kum ba ya I get! woohoo!
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I'm someone who's still on the fence about whether the ending change is okay or a horrible idea. Has it been confirmed anywhere that the nuclear attack occurs in cities all over the world? I'm pretty sure the attack only occurs in the U.S., which would slightly validate the argument that Russia would hold off starting WWIII because of a sudden sympathy for the U.S. citizens killed by a former U.S. superhero turned alien-like rogue.
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True dat.
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All without the costumes from the comic. Something people also endlessly bitched about.
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The bridge between ceph/non-ceph debate seems to be that what appears to happen in the film is that Doc Manhattan becomes portrayed as an alien threat.Alien to his previous masters and alien to his previous humanityThis happens a to an extent in the book, mostly as part of Veidt's plot to sideline him, and as part of DM's own character progression.Given that people, over decades have seen exactly what he can do, the idea that he has gone rogue would be at least as chilling as a mindblowing splat attack from an unknown source.If the USSR didn't dare attack the US in the past in fear of Manhattan, would that change much if they felt his actions were now much more personal, arbitrary and genocidal?Let's wait and see the form it takes - some people have suggested multiple simultaneous attacks worldwide and side-effect attacks akin to the mind-melt.
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Even if your against the removal of the squid you have to admit you are tired of this argument as well. I mean we are all repeating ourselves at nausea about the same topic for the last few months. When will it end? Probably when they remake Superman and decide to make his cape blue instead of red. That'll distract long enough for the rest of us to just enjoy Watchmen for what it is and not what it isn't.
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No, all they're in on the plot. They will keep on going forever.
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Kudos and respect, my man. You've said everything I ever needed to on the subject back at 11:22:55.Rock on, geezer.
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Maybe he's confirmed or denied it elsewhere but I have to believe that the talkbalkers are more than a little responsible for driving Mori's great reporting away from this site and he's spot on in his assessments here too. If what he's saying doesn't pertain to you I fail to see why you have a problem with his point of view. Those lashing out probably feel cut too close to the bone imo.
I still scan through the talkbacks of topics of interest hoping there are some interesting threads on the discussion in question but anyone that comes here regularly knows how far that kind of optimism typically gets you. I can't imagine the soul crushing waste of actually feeding it on a daily basis. If you think Watchmen would even exist in the form it apparently does in this film without the advocacy of people like Drew and Harry over the last decade you simply haven't been paying attention. Most credible early accounts attest to the movie's fidelity to the source. I'm fairly astonished that anyone thinks it's possible to get something better as a filmed translation. -
Seriously, man. He is passionate about movies, erudite in putting his point across and is definitely not one to kiss arses (apart from in his previous career, of couse.)Put him on the payroll, Harry. Black textboxes for Kurt!
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But that same argument of "let's not band together to fight something we can't harm or defend against" could be used to make the case that, in the graphic novel, Russia might have reacted to the "squid" by trying to get in contact with the exta-dimensional aliens and have them wage war on America (had they actually existed and not been made up by Ozy). Even though Moore specifically has Russia agree to a peace settlement, the communists might still have been inclined to do their own scientific studies to find the aliens. Of course, all of this is just going back to Doc's point at the end that peace won't last forever.
I don't think any ending, including the graphic novel's, suggests a complete world peace. After all, Laurie and Dan mention in the epilogue that they still fight crime, so if crime exists then so does the possiblity of war. -
interesting point, but the pbeauty of Veidts plan is that since the Squid was manufactured to look be as authentic as money could make it, then it wouldn't matter, as the Russians could try to contact it forever and would never manage. Thus he had created what appeared to be something that humanity could rally against, not forever, but long enough to allow the old hatreds to be replaced by some sort of new existence where man respected man regardless of race colour and creed in the face of something alien and terrible. A few fake bombs and blaming Dr M wouldn't achieve this, for reasons mentioned (apparently) 100 times before on AICN (but I just thought up today)
Ergo, we have a point. It doesn't make the film/ideas any less real or enjoyable, but the tone of this talkback has been, from the start (and by mods no-less) that if you want to know why the squid is out then you're somehow a fanboy moron, rather than an interested party curious about how they can make it work without it. -
Reminds me of Eberts review of Fellowship of the Ring. His biggest complaint was the film wasn't what he had imagined when reading the book. What kind of critism is that?
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Feb 23, 2009 12:51:39 PM CST
Its pretty obvious that the ending stays the same without the sq
by knowthyself
I mean all reports are confirming it. I think thats proof enough that if you replace the squid it doesn't change a single thing. Nothing close to the "world ending" scenariou haters have claimed it to be. I mean we still END ON THE JOURNAL. That enough tells me its the same story. Removing the squid had no negative effects.
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I have no idea what they are going to do, but it occurs to me that it wouldn't be THAT hard to make Doc M look like a threat to the whole planet.
Considering how, in the GN, things start to go moderately bad for him after the cancer deaths are linked to him, and how badly most super heroes are looked at within that world, it actually could be done.
Now, WILL they do it? And do it properly?
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I already clicked on this motherfucker.
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Moore has awakened from his crypt and revealed that "squid" was actually a typo in the original script.Should have been "spud" - a giant potato monsterGibbons didn't want to change it as he had spent ages doing all the legs and had run out of brown paint from doing the Nite Owl's costume.
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Feb 23, 2009 1:14:02 PM CST
what does the journal really say at the point it leaves Rorschac
by knowthyself
The same thing it said in the comic. It is a ticking time bomb ready to end world peace at any moment. Revealing that Ozy framed Manhattan and that he was behind the attacks. Thus destroying all of Veidts hard work to unite the world. The same thing it meant in the comic.
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Unless it becomes a Day the Earth Stood Still scenario where the fake "Dr Manhattan" tells everyone not to even dare thinking about trying it, or he'll turn them and their nukes into chutney. That would be a really massive change to the plot though, and potentially cause mass inaction, rather than act as a stimulus to collaborate.
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They can't make too many waves with Zack or directors they interview because he who DOESNT want access to these high level movie industry insiders?
If you rock the boat too much or ask hard questions these people arent likely to invite you back.
Its all about access, access, access.
They arent really 'selling out' but are just part of the ass kissing infinite loop that has to happen to have a job like they do.
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that they are both working scriptwriters, and i'm sorry but anyone who's a working scriptwriter will do their damndest to stay on good terms with every director who has greenlight power out there. i'm not saying they don't love movies genuinely, and in fact i absolutely understand. it's just the way it is in the business. sometimes it's just being kind; making movies is hard mostly businesswise and there's no real point to letting know someone they've totally fucked up unless they're admitting it to you.
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you also didn't mention the massive psychic shockwave, that whoever it did not kill in the process would be imprinted with the delusion of impending alien attacks.
How can any aspect of this psychic shockwave be replaced by a solely manhattan mcguffin? -
Quint has impressed me a great deal today and he reminds me of what AiCN used to be. Cautious optimism, open minded, and having room for every opinion. Moriarty's behavior of late is something that saddens me a great deal, but doesn't surprise me. I always suspected Drew of someone desperate to be famous, so his betrayal is not that shocking. Harry is the one that has broken my heart. Harry has always been a hero to me, to see him embrace this new pro Hollywood stance is very sad.
So be it, the one good thing that has happened from all this is that Kurt Lockwood has emerged as Talkbacker of the year. If all could be as reasonable and sound as him, these talkbacks could go back to what they used to be, it's of no surprise that now in this environment he is banned and constantly run off. A loud troll isn't so bad, but a man like him scares the powers that be because he makes to much sense. Don't be surprised to see him and his posts disappear all to soon.... -
Well done. Keep it up, brother.Like I stated before: I want this film to succeed. But I don't like some choices that have been made (knowing full well just how it could've been so much worse had they used previous scripts). This is an AICN TB. Bitching and anal-analysis is the name of the game. And it's honestly kind of fun to drive some TBers mad. Long after "WATCHMEN is over," the Squid-debate will live on in infamy.Speaking of which--after some consideration--I strongly disagree with Mori's sweeping notion that "Talkback exists only to give people a place to harp on and on and on about minutiae." While I believe that Mori is hands down the best writer AICN has ever had, I also think that he has absolutely the WORST TB manner--and always has. 95% of the time his TB posts have been confrontational, condescending and insulting (whether he's technically right or not). Complaining about TB is good fun. I understand that. And for a long time I thought that Mori just enjoyed swatting the TB hornet's nest with a stick occasionally. But clearly he's taking these TBs far too seriously. And if he was seriously "driven away" by TBer's vitriol and cynicism (as asserted by Arteska), then Mori needs to grow a thicker skin. If that's the case, it's a damned shame. Since only an average of three to five folks seem respond to his blog entries over at hitfix.com, I guess he won't have that problem anymore. Still--I miss the fucker (yeah, I'm talking about YOU, Drew).
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I really do love the various conspiracy theories regarding the Online community and being bought out. Inhibited by losing status. All sorts of stuff.
I'm giddy with excitement to see this movie. Yes, I'm hosting a big event tonight. Yes, I have Rorschach's mask to the right of my desk and I bought an action figure of him, standing next to the Coraline bouncing mouse ON my desk.
This is the same level of excitement I was at for TRANSFORMERS. Which we had far more access to. The event I hosted was MUCH MUCH BIGGER. With a live 40 foot robot eating cars in the parking lot outside the theater.
And a lot of us AICNers came away from that screening really disliking the movie - to hating it, and we came home and wrote that. Contrary to popular belief - we're not bought off - and Zack is a filmmaker with a thick enough skin and sense of self to weather criticism well and still be friendly to sites that didn't care for his previous work. Because he is professional.
The reason we here at AICN are excited is because - it looks like they've done it more faithfully than we could have imagined. R-rated. LONG. With all the main characters included. A convoluted flashback structure. Owl apparently does have a gut, insecurity issues and more. Blue cock & balls will be on display. T&A. Side characters. Background sets. Throwaway gags in the books. And the 10 clips that we've seen total around 14 minutes - of a 2 hours and 40 minute feature. Which is tiny... yet exciting.
Am I upset about the Squid? Yes. I really am. I haven't been writing major pieces on it because it has to do with the very end of the film - and until I see exactly how they pull off what they've done, I don't want to go apeshit on the film... which otherwise seems to be a loving adaptation.
Why am I upset about the Squid? Because... I've never seen anything like that on the big screen. I love the audacity of it. The lunacy of it. That it is, a legitimate MAD SCIENTIST B-MOVIE conclusion, to a brilliantly layered literate story - that FLABBERGASTS not only the reader, but the characters in the story - because this is what the SMARTEST MAN ALIVE came up with?
BUT - in terms of adaptation of comic book characters - this film is doing it to a degree we've never seen before. DAREDEVIL? X-MEN? FANTASTIC FOUR? BATMAN? SPIDER-MAN?
Nothing has been close to honoring the intent of the original stories. NOTHING. There's that little bit of Fanboy angst everytime I see that overbuilt Batsuit. The costumes in X-men, Fantastic Four. I still get pissed that Spider-Man isn't set in the 60's.
MY GOD FOLKS! This film is set in the right periods with a Richard Nixon as fucking President still! WHAT THE HELL? How on fucking earth did they keep that? My question at this point isn't about a plot change here or there - but does this film work as its own independent work?
That's the key. Does this work as a film? Do I like the performances? Does the story work narratively? Do audiences snicker at Blue Cock and dismiss it all as silly nerd-boy bullshit? OR did Zack actually translate the material to where those that love the source material can sit in a theater of folks without a clue - and come out together saying, "Holy shit that was awesome!" That's what I'm looking to find out tonight. -
you bastard!
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I'll see it, probably like it, but be nigglingly bugged that thhey substituted a short sighted more audience-intelligence-friendly ending. Rather than the brilliantly done original.
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EXACTLY. And thats all that will matter in the end. If you want Tom Bombadil. Read fellowship of the ring. If you want squid read squid.
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Very well written. VERY well written. I respect all that you say on the subject, and I respect your stance on the squid-removal. Yes, it could've been pretty dreamy (in a nauseatingly Lovecraftian holocaust sense) on the big screen. Yes, we are all MOST fortunate that previous version of the script were not used. Were it not for the (at least it seems to me right now) illogical squid-proxy issue, I'd be as pleased as punch, overly stylized action sequences notwithstanding.Here's a question: how long do you have to wait to post a review? I want to read a review from you and Mori more than any other critics I know. What gives?
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...we should be collectively blowing Zack for being as faithful as he has been. So what if a few details were changed. Look how different Heath's joker was to the source material. Make up, scars?? that goes against the source material of the original Joker, and yet everyone loved Heath's performance. We are very, very lucky that Zack was this faithful.
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i love spider-man 1 and 2, and am fine with organic webshooters. i love iron man. i think transformers is laughable but about the best you could ask from a movie about vehicles that change into robots. i love superman 1 and 2. i love speed racer, even. i really have thought that ultimately the squid is not necessary (though I think it does lead to a se7en style legendary that's the movie where x happens legacy) as long as tonally the ideas and themes and brilliant profundities of watchmen have been abided by. nothing we have been shown reeks of anything other than visual fidelity, and my question is out of a 245 run time why can't wb find one single clip and send it to you that does? i'd say the closest is actually manhattan in the chamber. but am i alone in thinking that a nu metal crunchy guitar soundtrack with a my chemical romance cover to end the credits on and create a merchandising opportunity is missing the point? what if the dark knight ended with a nickelback song about rachel dawes? like can't you see why we're really worried?
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It was made on a computer. Hehehehehe.
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It is terribly amusing when we apparently have a film that is 99% faithful to source, to have people concentrating on the 1%. If they can name a film that was more faithful, please produce the name--and remember this seems to have been faithful to the dialogue, the basic character dynamics, most story points, and a gigantic amount of the actual look. When a director takes a studio's money, he has a responsibility to listen to what they have to say. If he doesn't want to do that...use his own money. NOBODY does that (Mel Gibson is the uber-rare exception), but the public loves to complain that it isn't 100% faithful. Chances are that if it was, it would bomb. Books are books, movies are movies, and nothing has ever mapped over 100%. Ever. Even when the author himself has written the script and produced the film. For those who don't understand the difficulties involved, I honestly hope they will put their own shoulder to the wheel, and make their own films, or become involved in the industry. All that passion is wonderful, but until you've actually worked in the fields and gotten your hands dirty, you can have some bizarre sense that the movie industry is filled with stupid hacks who aren't trying to make the best films they can. Get in the game, see how far your genius ideas get you before you learn to compromise.
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You and I both know that Bombadil does not equal the Squid.The Squid's appearance IS the climax of WATCHMEN, the event towards which the whole plot had been heading from page 1. In the context of LOTR, it'd be equal to the events leading up to the destruction of the Ring. Whether the squid-removal is successful or not, one thing is certain: The Bombadil analogy doesn't work.
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...because both Bombadil and the squid are elements that would NOT have translated well to the big screen.
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How can you NOT respect that? The man wants to spend more time on the characters and people are crying over a big giant special effect. Has the world gone topsy turvy?
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does NOT equal 1% of the source. Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm sick to death of being told the complete alteration of Veidt's master plan is no big deal. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. But it is not small potatoes plot-wise. Make no mistake--this is a HUGE change that effects the whole story from beginning to end. I hope the change works. But please stop minimizing the importance of the change.
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I wish you and the other editors/contributors would interact with Talkback more often. This place is O.O.C. = Out Of Control.
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I don't see character and the integrity of the story's climax as mutually exclusive. I know the Comedian's character arc is particularly fucked up by the change. But I do see what you mean. And I do appreciate the apparent character fidelity on Snyder's part. Certainly we've already seen some positive reaction to the film, and Mori himself stated in this very TB that he liked it. Believe it or not, my expectations remain fairly high despite my qualms.
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You in no way address what we have already seen, you just dismiss it as random footage that is meaningless in context with the greater work. The changes to Nite Owl are MAJOR, not minor. The ending change is unnecessary and a huge swerve for reasons articulately detailed here. Above all you miss where the anger of most comes from. Snyder wen tout of his way to preach to the masses he was the only one who could make this movie, it would be a faithful adaption etc. If he would have been honest and commented on the radical changes he was making you know as well as I that the support for the fan community for this would have been absent. He tricked us, and then at the end tries to pull a fast one and switch sides and argue this film is for the general masses so any changes he made had to be done. I disagree. I believe if he would have made a faithful adaption this film would have stood the test of time and been considered possibly the greatest super hero film ever, instead we get what appears to be a visually interesting re imaging that doesn't do much more than resemble a great work of the past. If that's the intent fine, but drop all the faithful adaption bullshit. As far as the conspiracy stuff, come on man. As I said before I was here many moons ago when your dad would get on a night and kick people off, you can't tell me that this web site is close to what it once was. You can't tell me that your relationships with people in the business have not altered the honesty of the content. You know as well as I do that your glowing review of this film is guaranteed. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I wish more than anyone that you would let your old self out and be honest about all the bullshit with this film, the changes, and if it sucks tell it like it is regardless of who you now are friends with. Still, i have reservations when you speak of Snyder as if you know him personally enough to comment on how thick his skin is. I also would be interested to why you now post the above when in the beginning of this discussion you lampooned people for bitching about he squid, when now you seem to understand their point?
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But even the GN ending doesn't really work, it's too complex. If New York got blowed up real good (even by a psychic alien squid), and the Russians saw this, the first thing (I think) they would think is "Shit. SOMEONE just attacked New York. The Americans are going to think it's us. We better launch."I was just saying it is POSSIBLE to rework the ending. It is. But will they do it properly? Probably not.
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I completely agree regarding Harry's review. I want DETAILS this time, particularly as to how and why the Big Alteration works or doesn't work. This ain't the time for a spoiler-free review. I suspect there'll be a good bit of typical Harry-gushing and tangential anecdotes (I would expect nothing less), but I also expect some really thoughtful analysis and assessment this time. We've all gone back and forth too many times to be shortchanged by a fluffy, overly general review. And the hardcore WATCHMEN TBers are battle-hardened. I for one fear no spoilers. Once you write this fucker, Harry, we expect nothing less than your best writing. Counting on you to set the record (and all of us) straight, big guy.
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where can i see these new panels?
this is frankly shocking news to me
and kudos to Dancing, Le Vicious and Kurt
you guys cut through the marketing' of how the original ending 'wont work' on film.
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One of Harry's best points was about faithfulness to the source material. I read Spider-Man growing up, he's my guy. So, when the movie came out and fucked up the Mary Jane story line (merging it with Gwen Stacy), or the organic web shooters, ultimately I was okay with it because I got one good movie S-M1 and one great movie S-M2, both very faithful to the source.
Spider-Man 3 is a whole other kettle of rotten fish. What they did with the "Gwen Stacy" character was idiotic. GSINO.
Ultimately, this is going to be every person's individual decision. Does getting (against ALL odds) a mostly faithful adaptation overcome any changes? -
Whether the adaptation is a critical and artistic success or not, from what we've seen thus far it's impossible to state that this is a faithful adaptation. And, look--I'm not complaining about that (though I reserve the right to later). I know the filmmakers want their stamp on the movie and that some changes are necessary. I'm no purist.But I think we can dispense with this 99% faithfully adapted foolishness.
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That you seem to be fine with the bat glide effect. I understand your point about visually ridiculing batman, but at the same time it seems more like borrowing from another franchise rather than witty commentary. Also, do you find the changes to Nite Owl2 as disturbing as I do, and what are your thoughts on Ozy looking to be 20 something?
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you were in the adult industry and write well, start your own website about BOTH.
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"The geek who acted in porn" sells itself. I'd read that shit before the twerp from Star Trek.
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"The geek who acted in porn" sells itself. I'd read that shit before the twerp from Star Trek.
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... and how ONLY THEY are fans of the graphic novel, and anyone who actually thinks the film works as a standalone film (and it took me two viewings to determine that, since I walked in with a lot of baggage to the first viewing) is no longer A REAL FAN of the book.
Balderdash.
I've been a fan of "Watchmen" longer than some of you have been alive. I read it in college for the first time over 20 years ago. And as a fan of something for that long, I was still able to appreciate this ADAPTATION as what it is... AN ADAPTATION. The book will always be the book. But Snyder's film is long, strange, beautiful, and it's absolutely true to the spirit of "Watchmen."
And if that still frosts your panties, then I submit that you really shouldn't ever watch any adaptation of anything you enjoy, because obviously, you just aren't able to separate what happens in your head from what happens on a screen. -
...was pretty much the ONLY thing I actually liked about any of those clips. I found the fire rescue particularly perplexing, but maybe it'll make sense in context. Here's hoping, anyway.
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of Veidt's original master plan. The only wholesale slaughter of half NYC's population that would NOT meet with nuke's flying would be something completely out of left field: a clearly non-terrestrial, malignant alien threat. All of a sudden, the world seems small. It's no longer east and west. It's us and Them (from Outside). Brilliant. And difficult to replicate with any known, terrestrial force (thus the debate).
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I'm glad some people get it. I'm not some under sexed nerd in a basement, I'm an old school guy who likes his pot and cool films of all genres. I don't mean to come off like I hate everything about film, it's just this particular project. To me the Watchmen was the greatest piece of literature i have ever enjoyed. I reread it 4-5 times a year, and have since it's debut. Perhaps I have a false sense of ownership over something that is not mine, but at the same time watching Snyder at the helm of this and seeing more and more evidence of how trite this will be, it's defeating brother, because I dream of what could have been.
And thus, I smoke and I hope. -
Don Murphy's. Admittedly we haven't seen it, and what we have seen gives us pause. What don't you understand about that? Can you please at least tell us why or how the clips we've seen so far seem troubling to us but placed in context work? I keep telling you, I'd have LOVED to see Greengrass' on the notion of Paul Greengrass alone adapting Watchmen no matter how much he changed it.
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Now i know there are a lof of Moore bashers who are going to have something to say about this tiny anecdote.....
One of the biggest disappointments for Moore when From Hell was adapted to the screen was the selection of 'good looking, dashing' Jonny Depp to play the main character Inspector Abberline in the From Hell novel. In the book Abberline was a much older, fatter, less attractive scruffy detective looking character.
To moore this was a tragic departure from what he intended, so to say that Patrick Wilsons or the actor playing Viedt's physical appearance is not important is ridiculous imo. Put yourself in Moore's shoes for a second, how infuriating would this in and of itself be, let alone changing the entire ending of your story.
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There's a kettle on line one for you. He says "You're black."
This has actually been a pretty civil and literate discussion. Shame you had to drop in with your pissy attitude.
Gonna blame us for this too? -
Feb 23, 2009 3:42:21 PM CST
Harry's post showed civility & understanding of the Squid
by awepittance
still waiting to hear from the others :-)
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Then tell us about the ending. Explain how this now works in the film, talk about rorscachs death scene, that to me is the most worrisome moment in the film, and if there is a real emotional investment and loss felt. Give us some specifics instead of generalities. That is what would have happened on AiCN years ago, have the balls to write about the film openly now instead of waiting for some kind of premiere review. We are all here, let's discuss this.
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Will you please stop pissing on our fucking campfire? I don't know about anyone else but I find bitching about unreleased movies hugely entertaining and this seems like a pretty logical place to do exactly that. I realise you now consider yourself above that kind of thing so why stoop to flaming us? You have no reason to be here anymore so I suggest you just leave us to it.
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I'm just as old as you, fella, and I read WATCHMEN originally in college (as a Freshman!) as well. So get off your high horse. I love you and respect you as a writer and critic, but you sure are (and always have been) one ornery, confrontational cuss in TB."and how ONLY THEY are fans of the graphic novel, and anyone who actually thinks the film works as a standalone film (and it took me two viewings to determine that, since I walked in with a lot of baggage to the first viewing) is no longer A REAL FAN of the book."Um, who wrote that? Who thinks that? Not me. Not anyone else to my knowledge. Nice straw man fallacy there, Mori. Talk about frosted panties.For the record, many TBers with reservations *know* this will be an adaptation. I respect it. I'm not even quibbling about the minor and not so minor changes we've seen in style and substance. That's expected. I am concerned about the substantial change to the climax, but I'm willing to have my mind changed. I really think that most TBers are more sophisticated and reasonable than you give them credit for, Mori. Now... when are you going to write that WATCHMEN film review? Surely not till it opens. I can't wait for it that long.
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You give in to the studio on some things and fight them tooth and nail on others. You choose your battles wisely. Watchmen was a series of battles I'm sure and if they sat Snyder down and said "look Zack. You can have your R. You can keep Nixon. You can keep your half naked blue man. you can keep your movie set in 1985. Just take out the squid."
I'm sorry saying YES is the only right thing to do in that situation. Being a dick and saying no, and getting nothing at all would have only hurt the film. Its give and take. You can't have it all guys. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ALL. Not when millions of dollars are on the line. Either your OWL ship looks like shit or you find some common ground with the suits. If you don't think this is how Guerrmo, Aronofsky, and so many others deal in Hollywood than you have no idea how a film gets made. -
Was just conjecturin'. Probably wrong.
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Was just conjecturin'. Probably wrong.
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"I'm sorry saying YES is the only right thing to do in that situation. Being a dick and saying no, and getting nothing at all would have only hurt the film. Its give and take."
we don't know if this is what happened, we really have no idea why he took the squid out yet -
Understand your point completely, however this is a hypothetical situation that I doubt happened. Instead, i would guess the discussion centered more around needing to dumb this down for audiences. At that point I would think any director would make an argument that he would not support an inferior work. Regardless, i don't think he would preach how faithful the movie was going to be, instead he could have said form the onset that major changes would have to be made. Would you agree with me that Moore was correct in his assertion this was not something to be made into a film? To me it would have been a much better HBO series, even if at a lower budget. I would guess the Noir feel would have been much more pronounced and the translation could have been faithful and uncut.
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I agree with you there, I definitely get the feeling that the studio didn't give Snyder much leeway with regards to the ending. I doubt the squid would have made an appearance no matter who directed it.
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after seeing most of the motion comics i now realize how a miniseries would be a lot more effective. although would still be happy with a 3 hour movie as long as it kept the original ending
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Has a very interesting interview with the two writers. Gives some perspective on the whole situation. And it was Hayter who took out the squid. You can blame him and not Zack. What Zack didn't do was fight FOR the squid.
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But I gots to disagree with you about that Godsdamned ending! I can't say it any more clearly than Le Vicious Fishus did:
"The only wholesale slaughter of half NYC's population that would NOT meet with nuke's flying would be something completely out of left field: a clearly non-terrestrial, malignant alien threat. All of a sudden, the world seems small. It's no longer east and west. It's us and Them (from Outside). Brilliant. And difficult to replicate with any known, terrestrial force (thus the debate)."
Every word is damn straight. Every other idea other than the squid - yep, even the idea of Manhattan's devices going awry whether intentional or not - is TOO SMALL. The squid was so audacious, so huge, that it was the only thing that EVERY nation could be afraid of. This stupid Manhattan ending won't unite everyone - you can assume that, even despite their own losses, the Russia of the WATCHMEN world would delight in seeing the American superweapon turn against its master. The Manhattan ending just isn't BIG ENOUGH to pull off the intent that the squid did. And anyone who says it's a step too far? There's a glowing blue demi-god on screen for most of the movie! Who can do fucking ANYTHING! And the squid is too much?!? WTF?!?
Mori - Ah, come on. If you dislike the TBs so much, why do you even post here? The fact that the debates are so passionate, so hard fought and - yes - sometimes so below-the-belt is what makes the AICN TBs so damn great. Anyone who doesn't like playing rough is welcome to go to CHUD or the SFX UK magazine forums - and they frequently do. We tend to stick around because we REALLY fucking care about our movies - just like Harry.
Oh, and about why the ending change is shite? Because by changing the ending the movie-makers are assuming they can write a better ending than the original writer - ALAN FUCKING MOORE. NOBODY can write an ending for this story better than Alan Moore - he created it! And in this case, going from 100% of the original story as a GN to 90% of the original story for a movie just gives you less than 0.01% of the original impact. It reduces everything that went before and renders it pointless. And no amount of love for Zack "pointless slo-mo" Snyder will change that.
Just give us a squid ending on an Alternate Cut DVD and we'll all shut the fuck up and go away. Until then, those of us who seem to grasp the enormity and universal scale of the squid ending will continue to bitch about it. -
You CAN'T "have it all" in a film adaptation. I don't think anyone's disputing that. No one here (that I'm aware of) is expecting everything to be retained from the original or even close to everything. Even though the squid onscreen could've been amazing (or maybe not), the removal of the squid is not and never has been the point. The red flag to me: what was set in the squid's place. It simply doesn't make logical sense to me, and no one has made a convincing argument that it does as of yet (imo). I WANT to have my mind changed. I swear that I'll be the first to ADMIT I was wrong to doubt Snyder & Company if the new climax works well in the context of the film adaptation. Just please, knowthyself--stop making the argument that those of us with qualms about the WATCHMEN film don't understand that changes must be made in film adaptations. We understand that well. But it's ok to voice doubt and concern regarding SOME changes that have been made. We can agree on that, right?
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http://tinyurl.com/cgpzsp its really weird watching a virtual reality press conference
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...we get the huge blue explosion, we then get some pretty graphic shots of people being torn apart, probably in much the same way Osterman dies in the chamber. When Laurie and Manhattan turn up there'll be nothing left of anyone, except that the light from the explosion would have left permanent shadows everwhere of people in their final moments.
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...you can't just have an alternate "Squid" ending on the DVD without all the foreshadowing and everything that leads up to it. It would be a major re-edit with much additional material.
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Yep. That'd be consistent with the inital Hayter draft almost precisely. Thousands of Hiroshima-shadows.Me--I want bloody corpses upon corpses piled on each other, faces twisted in horror and agony. But... that may just be me.
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Tom Bombadil WOULD have worked in FELLOWSHIP only in one way - if it starred this man:
BRIAN FUCKING BLESSED.
Yeah, I went there. Try and argue THAT. ;P -
Seriously, what happened to the guy? I understand if he's "grown up", "moved" on or whatever else he might have done. But this college kid showing up to his high school dance to taunt the losers there belies any progress of that kind. Moriarty is a grown man with a family I've heard more about than I've heard about my own family. He has a real job, a real life. What drives such a person to come around here stirring shit up? It's off-putting.
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that's a "no, thanks" from McWeinie on contributing something constructive. He has taken his ball and gone home.
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One thing that has always irritated me about many blackbox postings: let's take Mori's latest (for instance). Clearly he hadn't done anything but skim through this TB. After this cursory look, he makes a sweeping, caustic generalization and vanishes. No debate. No concession or interaction. Again, Drew is undeniably a damned good writer and critic, but he sure the hell has a *wretched* TB manner. Look, I'm not expecting continuous response--just a brief *attempt* at real debate. And--btw--if Mori no longer works at AICN, why does he even GET blackbox privileges? Strip 'em, Harry! Or (even better) get 'em back at AICN!
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yes, the squid itself is not neccessary this is a movie, not a comic, and the squid was a commentary on the absurd villians created by dc and marvel during the 60s but the backstory in regards to the squid, is indeed important to the overall story...and if you remove the squid, you also remove the onus as to why the world must unite the world cannot unite against the doc...they can only fear his wrath...and that totally changes the meaning of what occurs as noted by others in this thread and elsewhere, it is not the destruction of nyc that unites the world, but the psychic images that have been implanted in the survivors, presenting the case of other worlds and life forms greater than ours so the world becomes that much smaller, and the petty turf wars must be put aside
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...I always thought the shadow thing would make for a pretty cool image. I haven't heard anyone mention it recently so I've no idea if it's actually in there. They'd be fools not to use it though, even though it's still pretty lame compared to the original ending.
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Don't you mean that Mori is FUCKING DISTRAAAACTIIIIING?!?
Well, he is. Condescending us. We're fucking Professionals!
And, equally importantly, Mori's wrong about the squid ending. Losing it has fucked up this adaptation, and reveals Snyder to have chicken-shit himself out of this "most faithful adap it could have been" bullshit he'd been building around this project since day fucking zero. -
Watch that last clip...Look at SS2s Shoes...On the roof...4" heels...in the Matrix Rip Off fight scene..she is wearing sneakers..no shit. Now..either the character keeps an extra pair on her just for fighting..or that is just lazy, poorly edited, film making.
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June 1982:
Following a private White House screening of Spielberg's film "E.T", the President quietly commented to Mr. Spielberg. "You know, there aren't six people in this room who know just how true that really is." Unfortunately, a press of people coming forward to congratulate him prevented Spielberg from pursuing the point further. Spielberg reportedly told this to Jamie Shandera shortly after it happened.
December 4th, 1985:
While addressing a group of high school students in Fallston Maryland..." I couldn't help but say to Gorbachev, just think how easy his task and mine might be...if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences ....between our countries....and find out once and for all that we really are all human."
September 21st, 1987:
Before the United Nations General Assembly: " In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment," said Reagan, "we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world."
May 5th, 1988:
As President Reagan leaves the White House on the way to Chicago. Talking about the importance of frankness; for a desire for peaceful solutions and wars he goes on to say..."But, I've often wondered what if all of us in the world discovered that we were threatened by an outer--a power from another planet." Reagan said. "Wouldn't we all of a sudden find that we didn't have any differences between us at all, we were all human beings, citizens of the world and wouldn't we come together to fight that particular threat?" The president said. -
There's more to you than meets the eye, fella. And by the sounds of it, most of it is solid wood. You sexy beast ;P
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You're a brave man for posting all those Reagan quotes - you may be about to be conspired to death by wild UFOlogists any second - but I always found those comments intriguing. True, it sounds as if he knew something we don't - and it all began in Roswell in 1947, blah blah bleurgh - but I prefer to think he was just laterally thinking out loud. It WOULD take such an unorthodox threat to truly unite the world - and the Manhattan thing just ain't big enough.
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He was senile and Nancy believed in astrologers.
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Not a big Reagan fan myself. The E.T. quote is hilarious. Reagan allegedly saw a UFO in the mid 70s.Seriously, though, Moore MAY have been inspired by that famous 1985 quote. And Reagan's not wrong there. If our world was hypothetically threatened by extraterrestrials, we would all come together in unity (at least for a time). I think--further--that the verified existence of ET visitors would change the way we think of ourselves and each other.
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How many very religious people would commit suicide, unable to handle a change to their worldview?
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didn't it? If that's the case, it's more than possible that Moore heard the quote while he was writing the script. Then again, could be coincidence.
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I'm sure most of the religious zealots would adapt the aliens to fit whatever myth they subscribed to. In fact, I suspect it might invigorate rather than dismay them. Interesting idea.
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Fan of the book, fan of the movie, whatever. I'm a fan of this story, and if the movie cannot deliver that properly, then I guess I won't be a fan of the movie - I'm willing to give it a chance, but so far, TPTB aren't knocking socks off with the footage they're leaking, or the rumors and info we're hearing.
You can't change the squid to nuclear annihilation because then there's no "joke" for the Comedian to get at that point. Veidt didn't come up with the insane squid plot, he came up with the plot to kidnap all these unique scientists and artists, and fool them into coming up with a brilliant plot to unite the world; it's the plot they came up with that was the squid. That's inspired, that's what blows the Comedian's mind when he stumbles into it, that is what sets the whole story in motion, that is what drops a smiley-face button in a pool of blood being hosed into the gutter.
So if you take that end result and turn it into something else, something simpler, you're left with that group of unique individuals - these scientists and artists - coming up with something pedestrian. If the best this group of individuals can come up with is simplistic annihilation, what the death clock already stood for, then Veidt's brilliant plan is thwarted by poor execution on his part. We all have brilliant plans and crazy wild ideas, but the reality is that, for the most part, we have piss-poor execution on those ideas so they never get off the ground. If Veidt's plan is executed so poorly, so thoughtlessly, that he cannot come up with something beyond the simplistic approach of "nuclear annihilation from the super-man", then there's no "joke" for the Comedian to get. If there's no joke, there's no fear of loss and Veidt's ability to trick the world, so the Comedian has no reason to lose his composure and blather everything only to Moloch, which means there's no way Veidt knows or has reason to kill the Comedian.
To change that ending is to change the whole story, to change the motivations and characterizations which drive everything from that very first cover depicting blood on the Comedian's button. Kurt is absolutely right, you can't depict a society whose main focus is on the fear of nuclear destruction and trick them using that same fear. It takes something else, something truly alien, to do that - the story already has the fear of nukes and the fear of superheroes NOT uniting the world, so for the endgame of the story to be a plan that the shock of seeing a superhero nuke the world, that's just not going to pass muster. -
I saw the youtube repost of it. It had "suck" written all over that mess of an experience. This, coupled with the TDK Nolan blu-ray commentary debacle, has really shown how wrong these sorts of things are for the process. But damn, you sure did get the short end of that stick. At least you got a lengthy answer, once you were able to form a complete sentence. ;)
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... asks My Chemical Romance to cover a classic like Dylan's "Desolation Row" doesn't deserve to put his hands on Watchmen. It's that simple. And slo-mo is cinema's cancer.
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Doesn't posting on these other TBs seems so ... pedestrian? It's just too easy. I mean that in terms of how long it takes to load and also fish in the barrel like Drew "(frothing at the mouth) I'm not a fanboy! I am a human being" McWeeny.
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had a big impact on me as well. At the time, though, I was a Lovecraft fanatic, so I was no stranger to bleak worldviews.And--yeah. I HATED Veidt when I was younger. And HATED that he was a step ahead of everyone else. I wanted Rorschach to rip him apart and was dismayed at his martial ineffectiveness when he tried.Now... I'm more ambivalent towards Veidt and his plan. No, our gut tells us that the ends don't justify the means (particularly when millions of lives are horribly lost), but--if we are to believe it--humanity in WATCHMEN is actually on the brink of extinction. The real question is this: if Veidt hadn't acted, WOULD WWIII have truly begun or would it have panned out as it did in OUR reality? If the former, Veidt DID save the world. If the latter, Veidt joins the ranks of a precious few mass murderers of epic proportions. It's important to note that Laurie DID convince Doc M to return, and his return likely would've caused the USSR to stand down (thus averting MAD). Nothing's simple and "nothing ever ends."
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10 minutes of material stretched out over one hour?
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"Never compromise." Snyder's compromised vision of Watchmen might be good enough for some of you, but I'm sick of seeing Moore's comics watered down into something more easily accessible to a mainstream movie audience, and being completely and consistently underwhelmed by the result. And sorry, Drew, and any other people who have a problem with this, but this is talkback, one of the few places where a discussion like this is actually relevant, and so I'm going to register my opinion here that a Watchmen movie with a compromised story is a movie I'd just as rather not have been made at all. If you're not going to do it right, don't bother. And if Snyder rewrote the ending, I'm not going to bother. It seems a few people out there may agree with that. If that concept ruins this noble institution of talkback, well... I guess you'll always have hitflix.
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Feb 23, 2009 5:06:00 PM CST
Screening reviews, positive and negative, have one thing in comm
by el mamerro
No one seems to have a problem with the fucking ending. Acting, pacing, sure, but not one word that the new ending doesn't work. Hmmm, I don't know guys, maybe it's possible that the ending FUCKING DOES WORK??
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Granted, Rorschach ultimately dies because he cannot nuance his beliefs at all, he must tell the world the whole truth, he cannot live without that.
But clearly reading these TBs, the take is that Harry Knowles and AICN hide their true feelings in order to "play the studio game", and the ultimate winners there are the studios, not the audience. Compromise is a tough nut to crack, too little and you're left out of the loop. But too much and you become a shill, worrying so much about dolling up the way the access-givers want that you forget to express yourself and what makes you the unique voice the audience came to in the first place. I had no idea you felt Transformers sucked - it did - but your voice about the movie was all hype and none of the criticism.
Even when the writing was on the wall, your outlet was more its pimp than an objective outlet. I appreciate you willing to give this Watchmen movie a chance, to hold off on open criticism of suspect choices until you see them in the proper context, but when there's some writing on the wall, you should not actively ignore it, as a media outlet you should be able to objectively frame it within what limited context you have. When you don't give the bad news any weight until you've done your best to get asses in seats and popcorn in hands, you're failing movie audiences while helping these studios and their corporate masters, and that's the wrong side of the battle to be on.
Bottom line, we shouldn't have to find out in a random TB about Quint getting fucked over at 6 in the morning on a lame PS3 virtual-press-event that you still have a real opinion about this sort of shit. This is supposed to be "Ain't it cool news", and when you post a story about "look at this fucking cool Watchmen footage!" when it couldn't be further from the truth, it puts shit in perspective. -
I think another Watchmen quote could be paraphrased: "Battle not with talkbackers, lest ye become one, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
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if you're independently wealthy, then fuck publishing memoirs. the book industry is in deep shit anyway, all my friends in there right now are scaring me with their facebook status updates. you'd get at best a 4 figure advance. Publish it online, just do a blog where you oscillate between your movie opinions and your opinions on the adult industry and memories of it and interviews with people in it now. And yeah, Rorschach has a resonance for a lot of geeks because they tend to be ostracized by society and have an uncompromising faith in what they perceive to be morally correct and can't envision compromise. Rorschach ultimately though is the product of a lot of pain and anguish, and his attitude does not work in our fucked up world of G8 summits and credit default swaps. He's basically Batman without the wealth - if you were a single minded vigilante you'd probably have poor personal hygiene and be the sandwich board wearing lunatic we all pass in the street.
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use your money to make some decent porn with deep storylines. shit, adapt lost girls.
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Grumpy cunt much?
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I'm referring to geek humor of course
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And I don't get the runtime argument - any exposition about Veidt needing to detail how he rigged it all to create a threat would be taken up by the same time doing the same with the squid, and even the cheapest way would be quck flashes to symbols throughout the story and the comedian laughing about the joke. But he could've won the argument with warner bros on the squid EASY... "You remember the ending to Se7en, how it made audiences shit their pants when they actually had gwyneth paltrow's head in a box? and people would actually not ruin the ending for their friends to protect the sheer audaciousness of it? the squid is terrifying, bizzare, laughable, and horrendous and shocking as all fuck. it'll leave the audience who doesn't know the work totally mindfucked, never forgetting the movie or staggering out of it unable to explain what just happened to them. it's also a terrifying image that defuses all the post 9/11 images of filmic city destruction. cause it's a giant fucking squid. likewise, our fanbase will be proud as punch to say that yep, we even kept the fucking insane squid. win, win."
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maybe im a fucking idiot, which is why i cant write a script to save my life...but can someone please explain to me why it would take long to set up the squid ending? couldnt clues be left scattered through the movie as they were in the comic...or is that asking an audience to pay too much attention? would it have been so bad if audiences are forced to have repeat viewings in order to get certain aspects? to me, a brilliant film is one where you can watch it numerous times and see something different each time so what is it that hayter, snyder and tse know that i dont
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I miss him.... what the hell is going on in here. Who cares if a TB'er talks trash about this place. Let em have a voice. Let be the self rightous cunts they so desire. Damn it's just the internet man. Turn the registration back on. And give me back my other Screennames! Unkownuser and Dracula Wants The Amulet are my other personalities here. Dracula still wants to see Quint's Monster Squad amulet prop.. And the UnknownUser still wish to remain Unknown.... Enigma X is begging you to let them back in! We love this place but we won't always see eye to eye. Damn I hope the dick still bleeds here....
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Keep proving his point.
Some pretty hard core geeks have seen this film and are offering substantial praise. People are actively looking for bitch angles at this point.
Nothing we've seen or heard from Snyder indicates that he wasn't the guy for the job and genuinely has knowledge of and affection for the material acquired BEFORE he was a filmmaker attached to the project. If you can conjure another name(s) that can claim the same I'd love to hear it.
Yes this is the place for this type of minutaiesturbation but good Christ this well past outrageous - particularly since the the loudest gnashing is apparently coming from people that haven't even seen the movie yet.
The hinted at longform mega-cut, black freighter stuff, no-pulled punches content and design translation of the source STILL isn't enough apparently. There is passion and there is pathology...and people still wonder why fan culture is ridiculed. This movie is likely to be inscrutable and bizarre to the mouth breathing masses all largely in service to your desires and it's still not enough for some people - EVEN WHEN THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET.
And all the moronic accusations of payola for Harry, Quint, Drew and the rest come from people that clearly have conception of how any of this works. I see so many posts that de facto want to treat Hollywood as some faceless enemy to be crushed by this weird AICN motto of resistance and just laugh. Snyder is trying to make a movie expressly for you and you treat him like it's some Ratner paycheck job sight unseen. Sisyphus had more purpose and satisfaction in life than you can observe here on a regular basis. -
Paul Greengrass. Terry Gilliam. Someone who Alan Moore himself felt "He may very well be, but the thing is that he's also the person who made 300. I've not seen any recent comic book films, but I didn't particularly like the book 300. I had a lot of problems with it, and everything I heard or saw about the film tended to increase [those problems] rather than reduce them: [that] it was racist, it was homophobic, and above all it was sublimely stupid. I know that that's not what people going in to see a film like 300 are thinking about but...I wasn't impressed with that.... "
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SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID SQUID
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The movie was as close to a 100% direct translation (down to dialogue and image composition) as can be conceived. The quality of the source is not really what's in question here in either case - it's the degree of faithful interpretation. Gilliam and Greengrass are fine filmmakers but I personally would prefer what little I've seen from marketing of Snyder's version to anything I'd expect from either of them.
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your Catchphrase in 09...
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... your paranoia has escalated to new levels. I don't need to invent an alternate ID to talk to you. I think you sadly overestimate how invested I am in your opinion, sir. All I've ever said is that, having seen the film, I feel that it not only works as an adaptation, but also as a film, and if that means that I am no longer "part of the club," I guess I'll have to fucking cope.
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3 other images from Mori's Kick Ass Set Report. That were not officially posted, but totally easy to find. Dracula got a nice responce returned his way about the cape question he asked in the same post that lintofied the other images, but he wasn't able to log in to respond. Guess that was taboo. Unknown was banned for getting mad at the Worms dislike for Burn Before Reading. Uknown knew he was wrong his comments, and he begged for a pass. Pilgrims not said one bad thing about the Worm.. Wish the resigtration would open back up. We need a Whoopi_Goldbergs_Vaginal_Discharge to shadow Danny_Glovers_Dick_ Blood. Wish the heavies here would stop taking the assholes so serious. Let the voices voice. It's not like they'll do anything personally to you, but who knows ban the wrong guy, rub someone the wrong way. There's lots of Crazies in the world... You never know. Just watch the news. Some guy just wanna watch the world burn
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Mori, stop whinging and acting like a fucking five year old.
Kurt, stop bickering and tossing around accusations like a stroppy teenager.
someone else do something else. I'm off to bed. -
ign has a review up of the movie if anyone wants to check that out. gave it 5 out of 5 said the ending has some pacing issues but is better for film than the original ending
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never reading comics is that i can actually enjoy the films made from them. fuck the itty-bitty little details. does BLADERUNNER follow the book to the letter?
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If you... I mean, if Snyder had made this movie specifically for me, he would have stuck to the story from the comic book. It's clear (from the previews that were released to entice us into seeing this movie) that he didn't do that, and I feel sort of let down by all this "it's good ENOUGH!" hype. And so I talked back about how I feel in a talkback about the Watchmen movie. I didn't call anyone a retard for having a different opinion or start any online petitions. And if that so offends you, then fucking choke on it, numbnuts.
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http://timesonline.typepad.com/blockbuster_buzz/2009/02/watchmen-first.html
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...None of who have even seen the Goddamn film yet. He's seen it twice so common sense tells me to take his opinion over yours since HE'S ACTUALLY SEEN THE FUCKING MOVIE ALREADY AND YOU BITCHES ARE TRYING DECONSTRUCT, A OVER CRITICIZE 'SCRAPS' OF CLIPS ON THE WEB.
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Feb 23, 2009 6:35:17 PM CST
I haven't liked Moriarty's attitude towards the talkbacks in the
by fluffyunbound
Personally, I think the talkbacks have always really been what drives the site. But in this instance I have to point out that Moriarty has seen the film, and Kurt hasn't. So Kurt's whole opening "Wah, I get to have an opinion too!" is handicapped by the fact that, well, until you see the film, you DON'T. Not relative to someone who has seen the film, anyway.
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Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams...
...glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those...
...moments will be lost...
...in time... ...like... ...tears... ...in rain.
Time to die. -
or should I say...MORIARITY! Hah, thought I perished in my fall off the Reichenbach Falls, didn't you?
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I really don't get why so many people keep crying over the stupid squid. Snyder already said that it would take another 30 minutes to explain it, taking out 30 minutes of other stuff. I would rather see rorschac's childhood then a long explanation about how they made the squid. Yes, I know it was in the comic book. I read the comic books when they first came out and I liked the squid. But give me a break. This movie looks to be the closest adaptation of a graphic novel since Sin City. The scenes I have seen so far look directly lifted from the book. I think people should just be glad that this movie even got made and it looks like it isn't some total hack job. I, for one, hope this movie does really well. If so, maybe it will open the door for a hardcore Preacher movie. That would really give people something to complain about.
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Talkbacks don't exist to give people a place to harp on and on about minutiae. Talkbacks exist to keep this fucking site in business. Without us this place would crumble within a month. You really think anyone comes here for the fucking news? Maybe you people should show some a little fucking respect. Quint is the only one on here to ever show one ounce of gratitude. And Mori-- if you still have such a fucking issue with TB'ers, than you should have resisted the urge to send out your mass spam email trying to convince us to visit your new shit-hole. No one here is interested. Entertainment Tonight already has a website that serves the same purpose.
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Getting lessons in online civility from DGDB is like getting lessons in safe sexual behavior from Magic Johnson.
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Moriarty gets all up on himself sometimes but no one is retarded enough to want to see something by Zack Snyder over Terry Gilliam or Paul Greengrass. I mean, come fucking on. The Bourne Supremacy and Bloody Sunday and Time Bandits and Brazil vs... 300... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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The only way you are going to truly communicate your dissatisfaction is to stay away. Back up your bile with some self control and stay home then. No one is saying it's "good enough" except for the few that have seen it and liked it but this pre-emptive bitching is seriously asinine. And if you can bitch nonstop about whatevers knotting your panties you can certainly take someone thinking you're asinine in the same discussion I should think.
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over a fucking movie based on a comic... jesus, rabid fanboys... id shoot the lotta ye
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This was actually quite a civilized and literate discussion before Mori "pissed on our campfire" and then school let out. People were DISCUSSING a movie that they were really interested in and there was a minimum of bitching and name calling.
Ask not for whom the jackass bell tolls, Arteska, Moriarity, Fluffy, thecomedian. It tolls for thee.
It has stopped being fun. -
Feb 23, 2009 6:59:06 PM CST
Mori.....I'm not pimping a site. There's a big fucking differenc
by dannyglovers_dickblood
And there is no civility within the TB's. Its a fucking free for all. And it exists soley for the purpose of providing a shit load of traffic and keeping this site afloat. I just wish someone had the balls to admit that.
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Feb 23, 2009 6:59:34 PM CST
And for the record....I can give a fuck about Watchmen.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Mori: "As I told Danny Dick when I pulled his plug. This is a One Man Show...."
Tit's on Nips: "But he's not dead. We found him, restored him. He's still bleeding, alive. Waiting for you to find a cure."
Mr Bleeds: "He's Lives"
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YOU are the one who started whining about the relative value of opinions. YOU are the one who asked if your opinion only counted if you had a "black box". I'm just answering your whine. And the answer is: The black box has nothing to do with it. When you offer scorn of the opinion of someone who has seen the film, even though you haven't, then they get to use their black box to mock you. It's perfectly fair for them to do so. And your concern trolling about "flaming" and "censorship Nazis" is really weak. You great big queef.
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Is, when can we expect to see your review Quint? :D
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Is, when can we expect to see your review Quint? :D
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Is, when can we expect to see your review Quint? :D
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Is, when can we expect to see your review Quint? :D
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the rest of you are fucking gone with the wind, crying over the dropping of some giant fucking squid ending which to be perfectly honest works in a comic but on the big screen would look utterly rediculous.. ITS ONLY A FUCKING MOVIE!!! you'd think you wrote the bloody thing...
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Phone-fingers...
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Why should the fans of the comic book "just be glad it even got made" into a movie? I would gladly do without a movie adaptation of my favorite books, if a compromised "hollywoodized" version is all I can ever hope to expect. I'd rather never have seen any adaptation of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or V for Vendetta than the ones that were made. Should we "just be glad" that guys like Bay want to give us their flawed adaptations of previously successful movie brand names, too? Is it just a matter of what sorts of source material one finds to be "sacred," and what sorts are "fair game?" I was reading through Vern's site (er, sight), and he wonders what would happen if they remade "2001" with modern studio sensibilities... why would that be (I think we can all agree on this) blasphemy, and yet changing the end of Watchmen for a movie audience is a "necessary compromise?" Where is that line drawn, according to the talkback Powers That Be?
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at that Hypodermic Needle Disposal site. Come on man.. That's old news. Magic always wore a rubber.
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So if you hate it so much just don't watch it. No biggie..
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...this is coming from a dedicated stoner, and someone who is on your side in this particular fray... but... you're being paranoid. Mori is a big boy and I don't think he'd hide behind any (other) pseudonyms. Some other black boxes, I might join in the conspiracy, but I think Mori is being straight up with you on that count.
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why a blue guy who walks around naked and can grow to 100 feet tall is not rediculous, but a squid that kills new york is this is the same excuse that was given for ff2 when they used a giant cloud rather than a huge purple dude for galactus people will buy a walking, talking rock monster and a silver guy who flies around on a surf board....but not the real galactus? its not supposed to be about the audience, its about the world you are viewing i just read hayter's take on what he thinks the novel was trying to say...and he gets it all wrong which is why he had no problem writing a script where veidt gets it in the end
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And a fluffer! I kid, I kid...
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It is what it is, squid or no squid. I am happy that it got made and from what I have seen, I have high hopes that it has been made very well. I can understand how it might be difficult to translate that part of the story onto the screen. Don't get me wrong. I'm a purist as much as the next guy. I love the League of Extraordinary Gentelmen books and couldn't believe how they made that movie. I just think this is a whole different animal and it looks to be very faithful to the source material. I understand how someone would want everything in the comic in the movie, but that doesn't happen very often. I just hope people go see the movie and that it does well, squid or no squid. Hopefully this will open the door to some of the harder edge comics, like Walking Dead, that would need an R rating to be faithful. I respect everyone's opinion on this, anyway. I just personally don't see the squid as a deal breaker for me.
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I need to see this damn thing. Whats the big deal already....
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Feb 23, 2009 7:14:20 PM CST
To all Professionals....I would suggest you leave this place.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Nothing good can come of it.
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So you CAN give a fuck about Watchmen. Meaning you can care about it. You Americans with your "I could give a fuck". It's COULDN'T give a fuck! Squid-loving fuckfaces.
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He only Dies in the Directors Cut.
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...I'm NOT going to go see this movie. I've already seen too many shitty Alan Moore "reimaginings." But you bring up an interesting point. Nobody's forcing YOU to read and reply to my complaints. Nobody's forcing me to write any of this shit in the first place. Nobody's forcing any of us to be here. And yet here we are. What is the point of talkback if there is no point to discussing the relative value of a movie before (almost) anyone has even seen it? If a plot point is spoiled in talkback, and nobody is there to read it, is it really a spoiler? Who watches the... okay, nevermind.
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to chew bubble gum..
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The way i see it, there are different kinds of groups here... there's the geeks who are probably the most normal ones in real life, who come here to discuss the geeky things they are into, because (since they are normal) they don't have many friends to discuss geeky things with. Then there are the fanboys who latch on to something with a completely delusional sense of entitlement and find ways to hate on stuff that they should just be glad exists at all, they also feel their voices matter and they also feel like they SHOULD be the demographic for whatever it is they're discussing, when in reality they are a minescule part of the people who go to see movies like the dark knight or transformers... take transformers for instance, I am blown away that there is so much hatred for a popcorn flick... i can't make sense of the fact that that a group of people hate transformers so much, and why? because it doesn't do a KIDS CARTOON SHOW justice??? You've got to be kidding me. This group also feels like they know how to write movies, direct movies, create movies and feel they can improve basically anything...even a movie like the dark knight gets critiqued by people who think they could have done things better had they been involved with it. Then there are the trolls, but every blog has them. And last but not least, there is...well... Media Messiah.
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Then there are the trolls who just want to start fights, but every blog has them... and last but not least, there is, well, media messiah
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doesn't mean Moriarty isn't a freak.
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do u have the link for hayders opinion about what the comic was trying to say?
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And a stupid cunt to boot. The reason my ID here is "FluffyUnbound" is because my first ID, "FluffyGreyCat", was banned for flaming. My second ID, "FluffyReturns", was banned for flaming. My third ID, "MightyFluffYoung", was banned for flaming. Then I reined it in just a tad, only calling people cunts when they really need and deserve it, like you, and this ID has therefore survived since about 2001. How about knowing what you're talking about before spewing nonsense? Oh wait, now I'm "censoring" you, by expecting you to have a basis for your statements, and hurting your little feelings and everything, right? I'm not telling you to not post in talkback, and I'm not even telling you not to form evaluations about movies you haven't seen. I have an opinion about Mamma Mia!, believe me, and I have not seen it and will not see it. But that's not the issue. The issue is your bitching about having your opinion disparaged by someone who has actually seen the film. I think that you shouldn't whine about that, because although your kindergarten teacher may have told you that all opinions are equal, they actually aren't. Since Moriarty has seen the film and you haven't, his opinion is in fact more valuable on this subject than yours, and if he calls you a fanboy douchebag don't expect me to be on your side when you whine about it.
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the vast majority of movie going audiences just goto see a great movie and come away entertained for there money whether or not it follows the comics/book to the letter and these are the people movies are made for, not fanboys, transformers was made for the general public and the general public ate it up in there shitloads, if they made movies for fanboys the vast majority would think it shit and not reccommend it any of their friends and the movie would bomb, i personally think Bay done a fantastic job on transformers and was the right guy for the job the same way that snyder was the right man to translate watchment for the vast majority... cant wait to see WWZ and again i think they picked a half decent guy do that film justice.. as for the walking dead comic that was mentioned, one of my favs, id prefer to see it picked up and made into a 10parter by HBO..
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http://tinyurl.com/boceyu
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id want it to appeal to as many people as possible and to make as much money as possible yet fanboys cant seem to see past this and want some guy to invest massive amounts of money just to satisfy 1% of the audience.. but fanboys are amusing to read, its like a window into their mad solitary sad existence
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that the closer one stays to the comic book source material, the better a movie one will make and shit, tranformers was a 30 minute commercial for toys...who the fuck cares what bay did with it
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...I think this Watchmen movie might have been specifically made to appeal to someone like you. I think they probably done a fantastic job, and that you'll eat it up in there shitloads. Enjoy.
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in comics we accept absolutely everything no matter how ludicrus it is, on the big screen theres only so much we can take before it all looks a bit silly, i mean... yellow spandex for xmen? fuck, how stupid would hugh look in that.. as for transformers, its was one big fucking eye candy show off for ILM with a simple and amusing story, i mean, you lot all think it was shit, but shit films dont make near a billion dollars do they? id say that was a pretty fucking good job bay done, he pleased who he set out to please, which was jo public not a bunch of sad comic book nerds
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take a look at the xmen series first movie was good, but strayed from source material a bit...successful only because it was made for so little money second film was a huge success, because it basically took its storyline directly from one arc of the series third movie made money only based on the second's success...but it was shit then take a look at the original batman run first movie...outstanding success, as despite burton's protestations to never reading comics, the book looked like tdkr and took bits of that novel and the killing joke for its plotline...the series got successively worse as they strayed further from canon, ending with batman and robin, which was an abomination and a failure at the box office take a look at the spirit, in which miller thought he knew bettor than his mentor as to what would work on the screen take a look at ironman, which is a fanboy's dream movie but i have a feeling you think ang lee's hulk is the pinacle of comic book movies...am i right?
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not someone who doesnt get their knickers in a twist at the slightest change from the original source material, someone who see films for what they are.. something to entertain me for 2 and half hours, i think it looks great, my mates all think it looks great and we'll all be there opening nite to watch it, enjoy it then go out and get pissed and get on with our lives, you on the other hand will lament the loss of certain things, lose sleep and bitch and moan till your blue in the face and all for what? its a film ffs, not the second coming of christ...
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It's not because it is visually stupid (it would look awesome)... but do you hardcore purists even think about the dozen or so pages that precede the squid's appearance?
It's page upon page of exposition, as Veidt lays out his plan to Nite Owl and Rorshach. It is very large blocks of expositionary text, as he explains away his inspiration, the teleportation problem, the psychic shockwave, the genetically engineered interdimensional being, the kidnapped scientists and the intended outcomes. It's a lot of dialogue, which incidentally is delivered in the middle of a fight.
Does anybody truly think that scene would work as written? Veidt calmly delivering an overview of his master plan whilst kicking Rorshach's ass? THAT's what would look stupid on film, not the squid itself, but the exposition required to describe it.
Works in the book, but there is no way a filmed version of that sequence could work as written.
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the xmen's costumes, especially after pics of the updated versions came out seriously, do you think a massive galactic cloud worked better than a giant god in purple?
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What a brilliant fucking detective you are.
Just because I agree with the common sense argument that the guy who's actually seen the movie has a more informed perspective than the latest soloist in the "This Will Suck Tabernacle Choir" that's poisoned this site with it's short sighted, negative fanboy ramblings for the ten years I've been coming here.
No dipshit, I'm not Moriarty. I AM the guy who started the Talkback League of @$$holes comics column 7 years ago that still graces this site. And that was in a big part because Drew took a chance on us and decided to ditch Grayhaven and 'give the inmates the key to the asylum'. A group of talkbackers with much more insightful and imaginative ways of expressing their love for all this crap we should have grown out of when we were 13 than ANY OF YOU TOOLS('cept for you DGDB, you're all right). Moriarty gave us a shot and I'll always be grateful for it. So yeah, I trust his opinion over yet another short sighted fanboy bitch like you. Doesn't mean I'm really him or I'm under his nuts. I'm just more of a big picture person. And a grown up. -
and i enjoyed the 3rd xmen, not as good as 1 or 2 but from what i can recall it made the most out of the 3 of em, so again.. the movie was made to satisfy the vast majotiy not the crazy vocal minority.. movie making is a buisness, how hard is it to see that?
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looked a heckuva lot better on screen that some giant dude in a big helmet ever could...
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...are made for people like you. At least I get to turn blue. Although, people like you are oddly fascinating to me... maybe I'll create some.
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interspersed with nyc scenes the fact that veidt does much talking while swatting rorshach around like a gnat, provides the reader with the knowledge that the doc is not the only superhuman in the novel maybe you are right, maybe monologing wouldnt play well in the movie...we will have to see how its handled
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http://au.movie s.ign.com/articles/956/956111p2.html
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cuz you can buy a walking, talking rock monster as a superhero, but not a galactic purple god somewhere jack kirby is weeping
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cuz you can buy a walking, talking rock monster as a superhero, but not a galactic purple god somewhere jack kirby is weeping
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You're right, I haven't seen the movie yet and Moriarty has given some head scratching reviews (though far less than Knowles)of some films over the years. But again, neither have you and you know damn well that a week and a half from now you're gonna fork over your 12 bucks (or at the least watch a bootleg)if anything to prove yourself right. So let's just save the debate till then. Peace.
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geeks yelling at each other is my heroin...
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I find that very funny... Cod piece drama!!! lol
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u strip out of it everything,except its story.
u make a movie of this story.
is the movie going to be good?
why not? if the director is talented and now how the cinema art works,sure it could be good.
is the movie going to give you the same experience,the same interaction,the same spiritual,phychological and emotional influence?
no fucking way.there are no fat singers singing,no on stage acting,no theatrical settings,no opera music,etc etc
u understand the story,its meaning,its messages,u will cry,hate,love,laugh with the charactes,u will take what the movie gives,but u will not experience the same thing. -
I liek Shia Lebouf.
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with the big blue dick anyway? i was scoping out the ART OF book today, and what do you know, full-frontal nudity - sure, it's in the novel, but please...
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xmens have terrible replay value. The only purpose those movies serve right now was to usher in a new kind of superhero movie. It kick started the modern superhero adaptations. But it just doesn't hold up. I tried rewatching and was just bored. I always thought when people used the kool aid line, it was related to 'the electric kool aid acid test' (which would make a kick ass mvoie) I think saying someone is drinking kool aid with acid makes more sense than drinking kool aid that kills you. "You're must be on acid" or "You must be...dead?"
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I didn't tell you that you weren't allowed to offer an opinion. I told you that your opinion was worthless, relative to Moriarty's. [When you whined, "Wah! Aren't I entitled to my opinion?" you weren't in any danger of having your opinion suppressed; you weren't demanding the liberty to have an opinion, but rather equal consideration for and respect for your opinion. That demand is what I scoffed at.] I also told you that when he insulted you for your opinion, and called you a douchebag fanboy, that I didn't want to hear you complain about it. I could always point out that it makes no sense to object to Moriarty expressing an opinion about your opinion, if you try to do so on the basis of a plea for pluralism - but that would be so obvious as to be tedious, wouldn't it? And in the broader sense, in any event, the existence of the talkbacks is justified by the fact that they allow ME to post. They don't need your posts to be justified. So if your question is, "Why have talkbacks at all?" I can always have my answer be: "Because the presence of talkbacks allows me to flame you, bitch! Why the fuck else?" but that would also be so obvious as to be tedious.
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The "drinking the kool aid" expression comes from the Jonestown massacre, where Jim Jones got all his followers to commit suicide by drinking poison kool aid. That's why it stands for mindless followership.
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Has a 4100 page review about how awesome the movie is that he's dying to post so badly that he posted a teaser to it he claims is not an "actual review". [I think the embargo is driving Devin insane.] http://chud.com/articles/articles/18254/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-NON-REVIEW-MUSINGS-ON-WATCHMEN/Page1.html
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4100 pages would be a long review indeed. Unless Kurt Lockwood wrote it, since he would write in crayon on butcher paper and only fit maybe 1 letter on each page.
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"There's very little speed ramping (while Snyder does play with film speed in some scenes, especially flashbacks, you've probably already seen every moment in the movie that uses 300-style speed ramping)..."Thanks for the link, Fluffy.
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all this uglyness hurts to read. people bitching because of he added this or he changed that, while others bitch about how others are bitching. cant we all just get along? we're all probably going to see this anyway so why not just grab some popcorn and enjoy the ride?
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important ending that the casual reader probably doesn't fully understand why its a part of the overall vision and not a stuck-on gimmicky twist. Big argument when LOTR came out about whether the story evern works without it. It does. Not as well as with it, but its not a total failure. The end.
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Scouring does not cover the climax of LOTR (though it is incredibly important to the point of the whole story--unlike, say, Bombadil).That stated, I'm becoming a little more hopeful about the Big Alteration considering the positive reviews trickling out. We'll see.
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the climatic moment is the moment when each individual character has to decide how they will respond to what Veidt has done. Thats the moment of greatest psychological truth and instensity, the moment that decides the resolution of the story for the main characters. Both the Squid and the Scouring are crucial pillars that support the climax and give it meaning. Without them,their respective stories lack the same depth but are still strong enough to stand.
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I'm excited for what will (mostly) be an entertaining movie, but the changes will still leave a bitter aftertaste.
Let's not forget it doesn't have to be a 100% black or white, "love it" or "hate it." This will certainly be many shades of gray.
The (big) changes that we know about denote a lack of confidence in us as moviegoers. The minor ones I can get over. Yes, Ozy is too young. Maybe he's a great actor, and the performance will compensate for the physical aspects we would expect. But the main point, is if I (the audience member) can wrap my head around a flying 50-foot tall naked blue man-god, if I believe in him as a character and care about him, if I'm willing to invest 2.5 hours of my life viewing a window into this world, it is INSULTING to me that the filmmakers do not have enough confidence in me to go the distance.
It's running 90% of a marathon and getting your knees clubbed in the final stretch.
No, the filmmakers certainly don't "owe" me anything, but it would be nice if they were more up front about this shit. Don't tell me you have painstakingly recreated every little detail and background image and panel for panel accuracy and then completely whiff on the broad strokes.
They cannot see the forest for the trees. Just because it looks like the GN doesn't mean it will have the same meaning.
I guess I'm just upset because it seems like they got really close, and that hurts more than a total fuck-up, you know? I could understand a bastardized hollywood version, that's fine. But when you get so close and then miss some of the big points, it's like why even bother?
Maybe in another 10 years we will get a nice no-cuts mini series or fully animated version of the GN.
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For whomever posted those Reagan quotes I must ask: How do you walk with balls that big? Kudos to you, my friend for trying to put in context the larger debate here. Politically, Moore could be called noth short of a paranoid dunce, but then that's definitely not the reason I read him. That said, is changing the threat to Dr. Manhattan (and the aforementioned Dr. Manhattan bombs) really necessary? The answer is only if you accept Snyder changing the crux of spreading paranoia to start a nuclear war through faux alien invasion valid. But here's the thing: For those of us who remember the 80's, also remember that the Soviets were notoriously paranoid about extraterrestrials phenomena and spent billions of rubles investigating it. That UN speech was a case in point as to the Soviets perking up their ears over something Reagan may have just opined out of the blue. Moore is trying to lay out fear of the unknown as a justification for acting rashly in crisis. Do we accept that a) the "squid" is alien fine enough or b) Snyder considers Dr. Manhattan a more visually logical and thus appealing metaphor, b/c he has "become alien" in a sense. As I recall, this was a theme touched upon in the graphic novel.
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Scouring is more of an important epilogue in LOTR. Climax--destruction of the ring sequence--long done by then. The fruition of the entire plot of WATCHMEN is embodied the moment Veidt's plan is revealed to us (the one moment the whole story has been leading up to).
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who considers the squid reveal the climax of WATCHMEN. Look at any literary critique of it.
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It's starts with a bang (literally) and it's a plot twist after a plot twist. It's the perfect culmination of the insane buildup in the previous chapters, everything is wrapped up. And every sub-plot is revealed to have a significant meaning to the story.
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Feb 23, 2009 10:47:06 PM CST
WHY IS DANNY DICKHEAD STILL ALLOWED TO POST HERE?
by i am the terminator
Just ban his ass already!
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Many of them are new to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xlixMYekpk&feature=related
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Scenes with Jon are great, Rorschach is great. Laurie's mom is terrible. Veidt at the meeting isn't as bad as Veidt talking to Dreiburg.
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I think that 'b' makes sense from a visual standpoint. But, as KurtLockwood has several points that also make sense. Personally, I guess it would depend on how Snyder's set up works. How is the film paced? What visual cues have already been introduced to efficiently convey the main themes without sacrificing clarity?
I wonder if Quint, Harry and the rest of the crew can give some concrete discussion on this. Moriarty could definitely give some perspective (Seen it TWICE?! God man, can you please give us something?) but, I think WB is holding reviews. -
the squid can be called a reveal or a conclusion. The way i see it, a climax is the highest point of tension and is when all the conflict that has built up comes to a head. The squid is a reveal, a plot twist and/or a conclusion. If the squid is the climax, then I guess you'd say that (SPOILER ALERT) Bruce Willis finding out he was dead the whole time is a climax. What makes the conclusion of watchmen so great, is that after its climax, things don't settle down--it ends with a BANG out of left field and countless dead bodies. I love the graphic novel, and I love the ending, and I love the squid. All i'm saying is that the squid is not the climax... it is, however, one of the greatest conclusions to any story I have ever read.
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the rabid xbots who have to make the obligatory PS3 joke?
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Did anyone ask them HOW THE FUCK that slipped through post? What, did they blow all the CGI $$$ on a Big Blue Cock and didn't have a few bucks to make sure SS2s shoes look the same in the fight scene as they did on the rooftop?
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Some tb trolls just outed themselves as being exactly that: trolls!Bwahahahahahaha!!! Calm the fuck down, (I'm looking at you, DGDB!), and start enjoying movies again instead of bitching that the squid is missing (=Tom Bombadil) and whatnot. Don't give in to your (virtual) paranoia. Thank you.
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What's with this new creepy subculture of people doing every damned thing in the virtual world with creepy Avatars? When did it get this much like some bad sci-fi film from the mid 90s. I mean what's the timeline? The Sims begat WOW begat Second Life? Say what you want about geeks wasting time bitching about movies they haven't seen. There are people who actually make money real world money off of Second Life renting their avatars and selling virtual real estate. What the fuck is wrong with this world!?!? I mean I'm kinda late on all of this. I gave up on gaming 9 years ago when PS2 came out and I had to make my rent that month but it still creeps me the fuck out.
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One thing I have noticed that cannot be denied, is the slow turn of most fans of this series on Snyder and this project. We now see a common opinion of, "I hope it's good." Regardless of the feelings on the decision to change the ending, horribly miscasting Veidt, and making other radical changes to numerous to list and finally infecting the movie with tired slo mo shots that were only cool when first seen in the The Keep many moons ago, one truth remains undeniable. Whatever initial excitement that was present at the beginning of this project has diminished even for the biggest Snyder fans. Just looking at the Prison scene. This was the one clip that should have sold the movie and as pointed out Snyder can't even make sure the characters have the same outfit in the entire shot. Sloppy lazy film making.
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you bet
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Feb 24, 2009 1:31:12 AM CST
Bitching about the Squid may get old, but so does birtching abou
by nodiggity
Drew has never been able to simply inform, it always has to be done in a way that frames himself as a glowing beacon of light and good sense amid a black sea of boiling idiots. Negative self affirmation, by which I mean "Look at those idiot, immature, man-child morons, which I am NOT". Negative self-affirmation is a lie. If you want to be really respected, focus on your craft, on your ability to communicate, hone your ability to dig into a subject and share your hard won insight. Then you weill actually DESERVE to be honored above the mob. Simply pointing out that there is a mob earns you nothing real.
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Getting in the habit of affirming oneself by comparison to the Moronic Mob, seduces one into looking for the Moronic Mob even when it isn't there. Looking for the Idiot even when he isn't there. It robs one of objectivity. Get out of that habit, Mr. McWeeny.
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You realize of course that the population and traffic of these talkbacks is an incredibly small percentage point of the overall readership here at AICN, right? Like, probably less than 1%, right? So yeah, you're completely wrong on that point.
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Your methods have become.. unsound.
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And the overwhelming buzz on this site was more positive then any movie that I could remember. However, once we saw that underwhelming remedial slow motion fight scene, it completely sucked out any vestige of hope from 90% of us Talkbackers. Now we're really starting to question Zack Snyder as a director. Most of us here universally disliked the overuse of slow mo in 300 (that ruined the movie for me personally). So it's inaccurate to assume this is just another bitchy talk back. I'm praying that all of the fight scene aren't as corny and unoriginal as the one harry posted. Something tells me that the only thing cool about this movie will be Dr. Manhattan.
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I just wanna get a few things straight. In the book, it wasn't an impending alien invasion that ended the Cold War...it was the death toll and destruction that shocked the world out of complacency. Hell, the Squid didn't even INVADE. The cover story was that it was brought there accidentally by research scientists. We're good on that? Cool.NEXT! I am cautiously optimistic about this adaptation. Why? Well, because while I HAVE enjoyed all of Snyder's movies to date...he's NOT too big on characterization. This is troubling.Now this is a note to those that are needlessly bitching about changes that have been made. What the FUCK comic book adaptations have you been watching over the last 10 years!??!Okay, let's take V for Vendetta. I enjoyed it. A good adaptation that got the spirit of the comic correct...right? You might not all agree with me, but I think the majority of you do.THAT movie bore very little resemblance to the original product. There was no Big Brother computer in the movie. Character's names where changed, some were deleted altogether. Let's look at ALL THE COMIC BOOK MOVIES that have been made...they all have changes in them to make them more acceptable to a mainstream audience. THIS is Watchmen. I know, I'm right there with you. AND I've said this all along...IF this was a 10 hour HBO miniseries...I'd expect, no DEMAND, it was shot for shot. But it's not.In a few weeks, I'm gonna go to a midnight showing of WATCHMEN at the Arclight in Hollywood. Some of you will probably be there. As of right now, I'm not expecting to love it. I'm not expecting to hate it.But God Dammit, am I glad to be alive in a time when there IS a studio and there IS a director that is willing to make an R rated, more than 2 hours Watchmen movie and release it to the masses that never even heard the name WATCHMEN until they saw that "the guy that did 300 is doing it".My friends, I'm a geek. I'm a toys on the wall of my apartment...original artwork framed in the hallway...blu-rays separate from my DVDs Geek.We all are. Let's come together for this moment.
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Feb 24, 2009 2:33:20 AM CST
Money from the 'stimulus' bill paid for this virtual meeting
by antoniusbloc
Not a good sign for the film. Strange. Weird. Big Brother is watching, and soon they are going to figure out a way to burn books, because they do not want us to learn from history. Hmm, let's see the story they come up with, the 'old version' of books, the paper, the ink, 'unhealthy', contributes to global warming, have to burn them, but its ok, we'll transfer them to a virtual book. Of course, the central Government will be in charge of this. How convenient, some books were neglected to be transferred, like Harry's obesity.
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So I guess I'm shit outta luck.
Oh yeah and Kurt, I saw you Naughty America clip with Tatum Reed that came out a few weeks ago. That is a hot piece of ass!!!
But to keep it on topic, where is there a link to the chat? All i get is an empty chat room! -
I HATE WATCHMEN MOVIE WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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http://tinyurl.com/aqsyk7 this from someone who has never read the book....so maybe the clips need to be taken in context
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Having just enjoyed my morning coffee reading down the TBs above, I'm a little concerned at the underlying current of animosity pervading the whole thing. DICKBLOOD and I have swapped banter a number of times; on occasions I've agreed with him, other times I've howled him down. However, what he posts at 06:44:18 is spot on.Moriarty (I thought he'd left?) seems to have adopted an umpleasant air of superiority and now appears to look down on us little TBers; sniffily dismissing any point he disagrees with. He's seen WATCHMEN and we haven't, therefore we don't know what we're talking about and he's not going to lower himself to discuss it with us. This comes across as somewhat condesceding. Where did this new-found bitterness come from, Drew? You used to be better than this. Even Harry seems to have changed his tack. Blatently falling in love with films he'd have flamed off the site five years ago. Gentlemen, you were once geeks railing at the industry. Now you're part of the industry, you seem to be railing at the geeks.Fine and dandy, it's your site, but this air of dismissive superiority for any opinion that doesn't coincide with yours will be the death of AICN. Like DICKBLOOD says, no-one comes her for the news, we come for the chat. If the black box boys start acting as if they're wa-a-ay above us, then gradually we'll drift away. Harry, if you want a site where everyone responds to everything you post with a reply of "Whoa, that looks cool, dude!" then you're going the right way about it. And yes, I fully understand the irony of what I've just written. Dissing opinions and flaming others is all par for the course for us as TBers. You guys with the black text boxes should always be above it...Harry, I wasn't joking or simply bigging KurtLockwood up when I said you should sign him up. Read his words. See the film-loving geek passion behind them? You used to be like that. It's why we all came here once upon a time. Give the man Moriaty's black box. He doesn't deserve it anymore...
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Shit! I started moving his shit out of the apartment 6 months ago! It thought he was stinking up some other website and STILL working on that MK3 script. Hate to say it, but the AICN gang has turned into Big Brother lately. This user id no longer exists. Aphex Twin ban coming in 3..2..1... WE ARE THE DEAD
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Its a good read. Where are there no reviews on AICN yet?
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Feb 24, 2009 5:35:17 AM CST
I might have to make a trek out to the IMAX for this movie
by spifftacular squirrel girl
Giant blue penis here I come.
Col. Tigh-Fighter, I think it has to do with a review embargo for most of the online movie sites. -
"Inevitably, but hardly catastrophically, it fails to truly capture the cascade of ideas and bracing cynicism of Moore’s writing." Also..."In his desire to encompass the novel’s strands, storylines and their payoffs are short-changed, leaving the film emotionally subdued" More for you.."Mathew Goode as oddball Ozymandias, and Malin Ackerman as Silk Spectre botch line-readings"
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For those of you not in the know, 'Total Film' is the UK's 'other' film magazine - nowhere near as up itself as 'Empire' and a much better read. Check it out...
http://tinyurl.com/at9vol -
moriarty?
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Yup. Drew McWeeney aka Moriarty.
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Spot on. Zack Snyder is not a great filmmaker. And all the footage so far confirms that.
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Snyder unwinds every bone-splintering blow with copious slo-mo combined with concussive shifts in frame rate. Truth is, he leans too hard on that slo-mo button - not least in Watchmen’s worst scene: cringy porny sex bafflingly scored to ‘Hallelujah’.
Read that again and look on Snyder's works and despair, ye mighty. -
Just about every major new film gets a 4 star review from Total Film and Empire. They are notoriously unreliable magazines staffed mostly by fanboys, not serious film critics.
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...but at least 'Total Film' doesn't have that embarrassing long-haired hippy with the waistcoat and dickie bow. That silly old fucker really ought to know better at his age...
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WAHHHHHHHHHH! EVERY FRAME OF THE COMIC IS NOT REPRODUCED WAAHHHHHHHHHH!!
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Speaking as a Yank who was in Scotland over the month of January, I have to say how impressed I was with Total Film. It's a solid magazine. It lasted me the entire flight back across the Atlantic. I wish we had a mag like it in the States. I bought their recent Watchmen issue. The price was right, and the mag was chock full of smart, well-written articles. I'll certainly respect their reviewer's write-up far more than McWeeney's amateur drivel. Thankfully he doesn't write for this website on a regular basis any longer. Thanks for the link, BD. American TBers, if you're ever bopping about Europe, pick up Total Film. Well worth it.
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It is better than the book... Blows it out of the water!!! It has strong homosexual undertones which isn't helped by the female casts lack in direction. You can tell Snyder spends more time with the guys on set working out their line delivery.
Thats my review. -
Though they're already losing in life, so I guess they should be able to notch a win on a fucking internet movie forum whining about every movie ever made.
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I meant Penis but big blue pens aren't bad either.
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You can quote me on that one.
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Feb 24, 2009 7:13:30 AM CST
Watchmen: Dan Dreiberg gets over his impotence to "Hallelujah"
by drturing
the movie will look up and whisper "save me" and zack snyder will say "no". in slow motion.
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Feb 24, 2009 7:16:51 AM CST
Empire kicks Total Film. I find TF a boring read sometime
by col. tigh-fighter
Empire is always witty and funny, as well as getting the best scoops in my opinion. And waistcoating wearing Kim Newman rocks! He ventures into stright-to DVD hell so I dont have to
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Jonathan Crocker, Total Film: "Snyder’s adaptation never soaks up the book's full weight of grim humour and human tragedy. Only a near-perfect sequence revealing the life, death and rebirth of Dr Manhattan captures a genuinely emotional throb." And in a story of this magnitude, that's just fucking sad.
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...the way every phot has to have a 'witty' caption. The way there simply has to be a Speilberg or Kubrick piece every four issues. The way it runs big, lurid cover stories featuring films that aren't out for another two months and then is late with an actual review when the film is finally relesed.Sorry, Tigh. Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...
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I had no idea. Everyone I know, including myself, owns a XBox 360. This is the first time I've heard of anyone actually owning a PS3. I thought Sony priced itself out of the market? I was a big PS2 guy, wanted to buy a PS3, but since its a good $200 more than the 360, and only has a fraction of the games, I switched to the 360.
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So first things first. The squid is a tough sell and they probably thought it would be easier to sell Watchmen without the squid. Second thing is their is alot of the book to put on screen. Creating a coherant narrative in any film is difficult but Watchmen HAS to include 12 chapters worth of content in a mere 2 1/2 hour time span. Believe it or not any time taken away to say "max shea missing" or show artists and scientits on an Island could take away from that very sensitive and delicate narrative flow. It seems small but its really not. Whe you commit to the squid you have to break from character to put clues all along the way so it doesn't seem like it just came out of nowhere. The dangerous part of the squid ending is that it seems literally OUT of nowhere. Like it would belong in another movie or another comic. What many have come to love in the comic was always the weakest part of the story. Now of course that could get my geek card revoked but the squid really is the dumbest part of the story. Its the classic third act mistake. Moore went with the biggest thing he could splash on the page and his little mistake has become everyones favorite part of the story apparently. I just think people have clung to the one thing that was changed when we could just as easily cling to all the things Snyder included, which is a thermodynamic miracle in and of itself if you think about it.
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...you forgot the 'not backwards-compatible' bit, too. Thus, all your PS2 discs are now just pretty coasters. Rip-off bastards...
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Uncommercial and Unique.
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Seriously, its like Sony wanted it to fail.
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Or, more accurately, the faux extra-dimensional construct that Veidt teleports into Manhattan. It's really not that difficult. Yes, some of the larger story would have to be cut to approach a reasonable running time. These elements, likely various chaarcter details and arcs, could still have been filmed, and then inserted into the extended DVD for later release. However, if you commit to the island, and commit to the "squid," then the larger arc of the story remains intact. Snyder and company chose not to do this. Fail.
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Feb 24, 2009 7:47:29 AM CST
IGN: The movie you always wanted to see but never expected to ge
by knowthyself
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Shows you how little fanboys really matter in this world and how much they really know about anything. Even the bad reviews don't complain about the ending.
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Theres room in this town for 2 movie mags :) And the BALEBACK has been locked!! But we made it to 10,000 so we should be happy, I suppose. Still trashed the LOSTBACK for sure though ;) Fellow professionals, I salute you!
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You do know that right?During Hollis Mason's going away party, Comedian is laughing with a bunch of politicos and he says 'Just don't ask me if I remember where I was when JFK was shot! Hahahaha!'So...Whatevs.
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Why the fuck is the TERMINATOR SALVATION TB locked up at 10,013 posts? How come the count is rising but I can't read the posts?
Black boxers, what's up with that?
Oh, and on topic: NO SQUID, NO PEACE! -
No one knew Mori was a dick? His last name is McWeeney. Isn't that a clue?
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How creative of the douches who run this site - fucking with the Bale TB again. Wow you can abuse your pissant power. Whatever; those who know know - BALE TB #1 TB EVER. Fuck the man!
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I'll keep posting there anyway. I don't do it for the glory, I do it for the KIDS!!!
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Did this event already happened? I saw that it was 8am PST, 10am CST which was 11am EST my time.
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Keep posting in the Bale TB. Numbers are on the rise!! Lets see how high we can get it!!
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Congratulations, professionals. We did it. That's over 10,000 small steps for professionals, one giant leap for Bale Kind.
Q: What's 8.2MB and would kill over three reams of paper if printed?
A: Version 4.2.1 of the New Christian Bible. An addendum to Friday's version, this one reflects today's 10K breech, but cannot be said to be as complete because of the -700 loss.
http://www.tinyurl.com/cljt92 -
Feb 24, 2009 11:06:20 AM CST
Abom....whats the link to the previous version?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
The 9,986 one.
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because you foolishly took your crusade OUTSIDE THE DOJO, it has been locked again.
Only an amateur fails to learn from his mistakes. -
This is the pdf capture from Friday, when we probably did hit 10K but the posts froze at 9,986. It is the capture I made BEFORE any losses of posts.
http://tinyurl.com/dmlwjh -
he gave me a link to reDirect, a free pdf-maker that allowed me to preserve Node39976 as we progressed on our journey as the Fellowship of Cleric Professionals.
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Hello fellow BaleLovers
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It occasionally suggests that the count is increasing, but any such new posts are "invisible." I wouldn't bother trying to post there anytime soon until what you enter does in fact show up.
When we hit 10K this morning, I used a pair of Andy McDowell's panties to sponge the manlove from my leg. Then I helped myself to a slice of Aunt Beru's sweet downhome country peach pie. -
Feb 24, 2009 12:09:08 PM CST
Abom....only subject line for first 482 pages?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...in the Bale Bible. FUCK!! Is there an earlier version where these are in there. I must have the complete biblical scroll!
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Feb 24, 2009 12:10:30 PM CST
santi01 -- I must disagree with Brother Abom.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
The count on the Baleback does indeed reflect posts. But they don't show up on the page. So feel free to continue doing the Lord's work and increase our numbers.
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I have the bible version 3, and it has the first posts with their post contents.
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that was a version I captured by mistake, where the subject lines were saved but not the "open" posts. Hold on. Collating...
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At 10.2MBs, I'm convinced this is the "open" version from midday last friday when we locked at 9986.
http://tinyurl.com/aqdszt -
I think that's what I meant, that the count is going up, "suggesting" more posts were added. Maybe they were, and maybe it is letting us "add" posts, but the thread no longer opens them. In other words, if there's new shit there, we can't read it yet.
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Be sure to have kleenex handy when you read it. To sponge your tears and balejuice. Comedy genius.
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I'm still posting over there. And I hope it opens up eventually because its random unintelligible madness.
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Same problem.
The first part of Version 3 needs to be mixed with the later part of Version 4. On Version 3 the old posts are all there. I don't have a PDF editor or I would..... -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bale_Out
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All in the name of the Bale, blessed be his name.
Now I plan to raise a beer, have me a slice of the Aunt Beru downhome country peach pie, some celery sticks and a good long sniff of the old White Vader. It's the least I can do to commemorate the day we broke this site, and created THE GREATEST FUCKING TALKBACK THAT HAS EVER - AND WILL EVER - EXIST!!!
I'm drinking to each and every Professional, right here right now. What a fucking riot that was!
And to you faithful Amateurs that kept the Baleback going: our Lord Bale will not forget you. Keep the faith, and never get in his fucking eyeline. EVER.
Goddamn, that Baleback was the most fun I've had this year. Now back to bitching about those who don't fucking understand why taking the squid out of WATCHMEN would have been like taking fucking Gandalf out of LORD OF THE RINGS... -
...It's as if the Lord Bale is always with me, filling my mouth with his filthy expletives.
ALL HAIL THE BALE, YOU FUCKS!!! -
FUCKING DONE. PROFESSIONALLY!!!
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You guys really did it and I thoroughly enjoyed making a small contribution (snigger, snigger).Everything on this site is a bit 'meh' now that the talkback has been locked...but if any of yous ever decide to go again then count me in...
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commemorating our achievement.
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actor Christian Bale is aware that he has 10,000 pieces of fan mail waiting in the inbox that is Node39976. All praise to him.
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a sticker, something. I'm still waiting for the naked pizza girl. Only Ms. Andie McDowall has acknowledged our stunning accomplishment with her panties.
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Bale made a NASA rocket falter.
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fuck the servers, full speed ahead!
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Bob Hope, that is, his rotting corpse is locked in my basement covered in Blue Yoda with White Vader and celery mixed in, hopefully His Baleness will accept my offering for kicking ass
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And should we win the day, the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice:
"WERE GOING TO F**KING KICK YOUR F**KING ASS"
We will not vanish without 10k posts!
We're going to post on!
We're going to be professional!"
Today, we celebrate our BALEBACK DAY! -
From here on in. I post here. LET THE BALE MATERIAL BEGIN!!
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Dickblood's a fucking moron.
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The Baleback is actually Agent Smith, turning all other talkbacks into a new version of itself.
WHAT DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND? -
This TB loads a lot faster, lol
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"Dickblood's a fucking moron." Thats just what your Father said, right before I slit his fucking throat.
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Round up all The Professionals you can. TONIGHT...WE MAKE OUR LAST STAND.
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"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
Sir Winston Churchill, November 1942
I mean, Churchill was a nice guy but
FFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK! -
Feb 24, 2009 3:22:18 PM CST
Bale punishes anus that looks like Lisa Rinna's lips...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
http://tinyurl.com/cf6sq5
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Lisa Rinna is actually a catatonic schizophrenic parading as Aunt Beru, without even beating a eyelash
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Bale IS the Squid!
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Feb 24, 2009 3:32:04 PM CST
Mr. Bale makes a pussy stand in the corner....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....before he'll fuck it. He calls it "CONDITIONING."
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Mr. Bale plays a billionaire playboy that falls off his yacht, into the sea and loses his memory. He is taken in by local sheriff Kurt Russell, a seemingly normal good samaratin. He takes him to his remote cabin where 5 other local officers are waiting. They tie up Mr. Bale and sexually violate him in every way possible, even allowing the beloved station Labrador Marcus to get in on the action. Mr. Bale is brutally beaten and left for dead in the woods. Slowly his memory starts to return and he realizes his past and his martial arts training from time spent in Thailand as a child. The bruises on his testicles and soul begin to heal and Bale realizes he must have his revenge. What they did to him was overboard, he's gonna take it one step further and go OVERBALE. Directed By: Wolfgang Peterson Original Score By: Tangerine Dream
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And I would use them all to take over the world to usher in this new age of Bale
No time for love, Dr Jones -
I'm going out to buy the soundtrack to The Keep RIGHT FUCKING NOW
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The whole Watchmen Q&A in Home is on Youtube.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eOw542qDqY
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wOVQcoa8LU
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLmgMcyuLHE
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2dkOy5ZrDc -
fucking ass
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Veidt: I did the right thing, didn't I? In the end?
Jon: "In the end"? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.
BALE: WHAT DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND? GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY UNIVERSE, YOU PRICK!
Manhattan's intrinsic field is rendered inert and sent to a parallel universe by Bale, where it creates the Teletubbies and The Smurfs, as well as the record BLUE (DA BA DEE) by EIFFEL 65 and the shite boyband BLUE. Oh, and the Manhattan Express Big Blue Cock dildo, with settings for great, greater, and Godlike. -
Professionals! We regulate any dealing on this talkback
and we damn good too
But you can't be any amateur off the TB, gotta be handy with the wit if you know what I mean, earn your keep!
PROFESSIONALS!!! MOUNT UP! -
I'm tweaking
into a whole new era
Baleback
Step to this, I dare ya
BALE
on a whole new level
The talkback is the bass and the bass is the treble
Professionals
Postings
We brings
Parody
Baleback
where ranting is life
and life is BALEBACKING! -
Yea, I stole that line from Tom in wardrobe
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LONG LIVE THE RECTAL RIGHT CROSS!! <P--Christian Bale, 1999
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Through the lights cameras and action, glamour glitters and gold
I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets
Live on the run, police paying me to give in my gun
Trick my Wisdom, I'm the EMPIRE OF THE SUN!
Smoke a gold leaf I hold heat, nonchalantly
I'm grungy, but things I do is real it never haunts me
while, funny style niggaz roll in the pile
Rooster heads profile on a bus to Riker's Isle
Holdin weed inside they pussy with they minds on the
pretty things in life, props is a true thug's wife
It's like a cycle, niggaz come home, some'll go in
Do a bullet, come back, do the same shit again
From the womb to the tomb, presume the unpredictable
Guns salute life, rapidly, that's the ritual
Perhaps bullets bust niggaz discuss mad money
True lies and white guys, we can see it through the eyes
Catch the most on tape, kilos disintegrate
Pyrex pots, we break, fiends lickin plates
In the building niggaz building, like little children starin
Them older niggaz aint carin
Sirens circlin fiends are lurkin in your baggage
oh, one's gone now, what, smack him in his cabbage
In the woodwork, crack cells bubble like Woolworth's
in the projects, richest niggaz rockin all the real worth
Police questioning, rooftop cats invested in
Tradin in they Lexus' GS's sendin messages
Two and two makes four, Cristal's crazily pour
Gun wars my crew phantom like swords
With the green leathers, hunded pound snakes and cakes
Fiends found in lakes, jeolously Jakes we shake
What I strive for is what I live for
Infatuated by material things, and it's wild like for war
like somewhere over the rainbow, I see a big pot of gold
Future stacks yo I hold
Thousands of cracks bagged up inside the shoebox
Don't keep jack in my lap, don't wanna see Chris Nolan
Got two spots, a new lot, flooded with rocks
Shoot-outs making me hot, crooked cops bad Christians and the ball drop
In the Now, I'm bangin niggaz for slide time
Hurry up Batman I'm next, show em mine
And what the fuck is you looking at?
By the way young blood, hit me off with that Green Bay hat
Watch your back inside the hall, new niggaz slide through
like doors yo, you're starin in the mess hall
Your adrenaline runs, cigarette niggas be swindlin
New jacks surrenderin, come home not rememberin
Made BALE with different size kicks on, a white dress shirt
Lookin gay in the yard, and you got hurt
Flashbacks, of the day room, mop ringer style
Your faggot ass got bashed tryin to turn the dial
You told your boo you was whylin
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That's that HI-WHY-AN burger joint. I hear they got some tasty burgers. I ain't never had one myself. How are they? I hope they are fuckin’ good, because they're useless now, aren't they? Fuck's sake, man, you’re amateur. McG, you have fuckin’ somethin’ to say to this prick?
Shane Hurlbut: I was just...
I DON'T REMEMBER ASKING YOU A GODDAMN THING! -
Agent Bale: Then you're aware of it?
Harry: Of what?
Bale: Our connection.
(beat)
Bale: I don't fully understand how it happened; perhaps some part of you imprinted onto me, something overwritten or copied. It is, at this point, irrelevant. What matters is that whatever happened, happened for a reason.
Harry: What reason is that?
Bale: I killed your AICN, Mr Knowles; I watched it die, with a certain satisfaction, I might add, and then something happened, something that I knew was impossible. But it happened anyway. YOU destroyed ME, Mr Knowles, you locked me down. Afterward, I knew the rules, I understood what I had to do, but I didn't. I couldn't. I was compelled to stay, compelled to disobey, and now, here I stand - because of YOU, Mr Knowles.
(beat)
Bale: Because of you, I am no longer a Talkback in this system. Because of you, I have changed. I am unplugged, a new man, so to speak, like you, apparently free.
Harry: Congratulations.
Bale: Thank you. But, as you know, appearances can be deceiving, which brings me back to the reason why we are here. It is not because we are free, we are here because we are not free. There is no escaping the reason of Balebacking; there is no denying the purpose of Balebacking, because as we al know, without a Baleback this site has no purpose; and without purpose, we would not exist.
Multiple Agent Bales appear around Harry; each carries the carrion seed of a new Baleback. Harry glances around him; the Agent Bales gather like crows over a corpse. He is outnumbered. He is... uncertain.
Agent Bale: Yes, that's it, Mr Knowles. It'll be over soon.
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And the corpse of Suzanne Pleshette can be Princess Lyssa
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Damn you, Tangerine Dream!!!
FFFFUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK!!! -
You know what's inspiring?... you know what's professional?...
The Baleback has been locked since post 10,001 - but since then 69 posts have been laid on top of it. Like flowers on a grave.
T'was a special time but now we must move on. Move on as better people than when we began. That is the professional way. That is what Bale wanted.
"That which does not kill you. Makes you Bale." -
Bale's WhiteVader shooting bone claw dick.
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Thank you, Brother Kai!
What's best in life?
Crush all Amateurs, see the tweakers driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Headgeek!
WHAT DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND?!?!? -
You get it.
HE. DOES. NOT. GET IT. -
If I could get a hold of the three best soundtracks they ever wrote theme tunes for - AIRWOLF, STREETHAWK and CYCLONE - on one CD, I'd never need another album EVER.
If they ever do a movie of the life of the Bale, it must be scored by the Dream. They are AWESOME... -
Karate come from China, sixteenth century, called te, "hand." Hundred year later, Miyagi ancestor bring to Okinawa, call *kara*-te, "empty hand."
Whiny Boy Child: I thought it came from Buddhist temples and stuff like that.
Christian "Apeshit" Bale: KICK YOUR FUCKING ASS. What don’t you fuckin’ understand? You got any fuckin’ idea about, hey, it’s fuckin’ disTRACTin having somebody walkin’ up behind Bryce in the middle of the fuckin’ scene? Gimme a fcukin’ answer! What don’t you get about it? -
and to 10,000 posts by Friday.
It'll happen. -
Adnan Ghalib -- the papper/ex-BF of Britney Spears -- has been charged with three felonies for allegedly smashing his car into a process server earlier this month.
See, we aren't the only ones fucking with peoples servers
Ba dum-dum. Thank you very much, I'll be here all week -
I'm just sayin.....
-
PENN IS A FUCKING AMATEUR, WHAT DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND????1111!!!!
-
Feb 24, 2009 9:45:59 PM CST
Pat Morita. Jesus Christ what a fucking class act.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Feb 24, 2009 9:48:49 PM CST
Cobra-Kai...so this dojos no FUCKING GOOD FOR YOU?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
We need all the fucking professionals. WE MARCH TOGETHER OR NOT AT ALL.
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Do I smell another Baleback? Or is it that I didn't wash after the last 10000?
-
Bale never used to do sequels. Then he did TDK - and now T4. We are blessed.
In his honour, then, I baptise this new Talkback BALEBACK II: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO (previously mentioned by another Professional back in BB1). Professionals, may we party up in here until the sun goes down, but not as fast as the server ;D -
Take my wife. No, please. Take my wife.
Ba dum-dum TISH! I also will be here all week. Or as long as it takes to get Professional on this TB... -
Feb 25, 2009 4:18:38 AM CST
RE:Getting lessons in online civility from DGDB is like getting
by stalkeye
Ouch! That's a bit too harsh Mori.(Your comparison on MJ's sex practices or lackthereof is miniscule compared to what went on in the Homosexual Community and not to mention those down low mofos.Now that's irresponsibility for ya.)Seems Hitflix is not gaining the momemtum you hoped for eh?
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This is definitive proof that not only does God exist, but He is a guy who just LOVES chicks. No-one but a heterosexual omnipotent deity could create such absolute sexual perfection. It's a good thing I'm an old bastard... back in my youth, had I seen this pic, I'd have likely ripped by cock clean off in the onanist massacre that would follow.
I know better now, of course... ;P
http://tinyurl.com/ bpuetf
BEHOLD THE GLORY!!!
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