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Ramses II stops in with a brief look at WATCHMEN!

Hey folks, Harry here... having still not seen WATCHMEN. Why are they hiding it from me? Are they terrified of letting me see it? Please let me see it! ARGH! The following review is from a long long long time contributor taking a new name for the purposes of this review. That said, I have to say I'm incredibly enthused by this particular person really digging this movie. For me... This film has become a near obsession. Last night I went to the Alamo South to see a cheerleader sex comedy called FIRED UP, and all we could talk about before and after was how much we are all DYING to see WATCHMEN. I'm not sure if the rest of the world is going through this mania. But I certainly am. I'm going to go comb a beach looking for that bottle with Barbara Eden in it. That wench can make this movie play for me!

"Managed to sneak into a very early UK screening recently for industry types of Watchmen today Harry and the news is almost all very, very good. Yes, it's long but yes it's extremely faithful to the graphic novel, to the point that the sex and violence is almost HARSHER than I remember it being in the comic. Cleavers are embeddded in heads, legs snapped in two, arms sawn off with circular saws. No punches are pulled. Small changes have been made here and there (Dr Manhattan being at the first moon landing and The Comedian pulling the trigger on Kennedy in the opening credit montage and quite a lot of extra Nixon and Kissinger stuff) but it's all very delicately handled by someone who has fought hard to keep the source material there and knows how to compliment it - it's very impressive. Visually it's as if they've all stepped out of the comic and only the bare minimum of CGI is used - a concern of mine when I heard Snyder was going to be directing. The cast all look the part and are mostly very good with Jefferey Dean Morgan's Comedian being the standout chewing scenery all the way and Jackie Earle Haley doing a wonderful job behind Rorshasch's mask. The music is very clever - many of the songs referenced originally are used and he uses The Times They Are A Changin over the opening credits to sweepingly tell the whole story of the Minutemen and costumed heroes right the way to 1985 in 2 minutes. My only one concern as a fanboy is that the ending has been changed, ever so slightly. SPOILER ALERT The original alien being that Ozymandias creates to drop in the centre of Manhattan has been replaced with "Dr Manhattan energy machines" that destroy the centre of many world cities. Same effect, to scare the human race into peace, but after all of the incredibly fidelity that comes before it sits strangely. There's a final scene that's intended to dilute Having said that it's a minor quibble in a huge, beautiful, angry, dirty, faithful, sigh of relief of a film. You won't be disappointed and I will be going to see it again. You can call me Ramses II"
Readers Talkback
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  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:52 a.m. CST

    third?

    by Alen Smithee

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Testing

    by JesseDart

    One Two Three

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:53 a.m. CST

    hey i was first

    by Alen Smithee

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:53 a.m. CST

    hey i was first

    by Alen Smithee

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:54 a.m. CST

    The power of Squid compels you

    by mulberry

    We sure this guy isn't a studio plankton?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:54 a.m. CST

    I can't wait

    by HomerJay1

    for this movie!!!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:55 a.m. CST

    First

    by Talkback1138

    Hi

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Awesome.

    by Knuckleduster

    Can't wait for the sequel.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Alen Smithee is a douchebag

    by HomerJay1

    I read Watchmen when it first came out when I was 11 years old... a lot of it probably went over my head the first time. I really never thought I would see the day that this would be a movie. I really don't mind the changes to the ending as long as the tone and spirit of the source material is there.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Hmm.

    by ByTor

    Well, I still say that having the end "scare" be directly tied to Dr. Manhattan is a problem, because Dr. Manhattan is tied to the US. <P> Nevertheless, I'll give this a chance before panning it.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:59 a.m. CST

    HARRY, get back to your DVD Column

    by D.Vader

    For pete's sake, do you even care about this site anymore?!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, noon CST

    Why will this movie work?

    by greyspecter

    The whole crisis was the nuclear standoff between the USA and USSR. That's what Ozymandias was trying to circumvent. That's ancient history, as are all those hand-wringing nattering naybobs who predicted nuclear holocaust as the greatest threat to earth.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m. CST

    add the fucking Spoler tag, Harry

    by The Shyster

    dammit!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m. CST

    That it?

    by belasco_house

    We need more 'n that, c'mon

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m. CST

    and while you're at it, add the Spoiler tag too

    by The Shyster

    i

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Nattering naybobs!

    by belasco_house

    Ha, I like that a lot

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:06 p.m. CST

    How is this a real review?

    by D.Vader

    Harry, you say this is a faithful source, but all this reviewer did was regurgitate what EVERYONE else has said. And that includes reviews of the first 20 minutes screening (which were on the net months ago) and words straight from the filmmakers' mouths regarding a lack of Intergalactic Squid. This is a poor, poor review (dare I say SHITTY) without anything substantial regarding everything in between those two moments mentioned above. How was the prison breakout? How was the pacing? Too much slow-mo? Did the whole thing feel ridiculous? Realistic? <p> I feel inclined to call plant. This review is fucking BULLSHIT.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Geezeus, spoil much

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    and thats not something I thought i'd ever bitch about

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:07 p.m. CST

    That's right, this review is FUCKING BULLSHIT

    by D.Vader

    Nothing new or substantial is to be found in this "review". What a waste.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Well, at least it isn't

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    a wave of nanobots

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:09 p.m. CST

    It's not the squid so much. (book spoilers, fyi)

    by Big_Daddy_Nero

    As the fact that the squid was NOT 'only' a deus ex machina for the ending in the GN. The squid was referenced throughout the book in the bits about the missing artists, the biographical bits about the comics creators, which then ties back into the Black Freighter, which then of course ties back in directly into the main story itself. Wouldn't be a problem, except it was those missing artists on that remote island which Comedian accidentally stumbles onto, where he sees 'the list' and 'the plan', and knows it is right and will work, and knows he will wind up having to pay with his life, and in fact it is why Moloch was killed as well. So, no squid, then it is not 'just a changed ending', but it really does imply fundamental changes in the story. I will be there first in line for this movie, but this one 'small detail' still worries me, as I am not sure that those ends will all be tied together properly like they are in the book.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Cliff notes for this TB

    by nam0krut

    The Squid sucked in the first place..No the squid had symbolic meaning...Zack Snyder is a hack..Damn you michael bay..i want squid..i dont want squid..waah waah

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Why "they" are hiding WATCHMEN from Harry

    by SpyGuy

    Because anyone who has the audacity to call KUNG POW: ENTER THE FIST "shit" deserves to lose any opportunity to see an advance screening of WATCHMEN. I'm sorry for the bluntness, but there it is.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:13 p.m. CST

    to clarify

    by Big_Daddy_Nero

    Since that whole 'plan' was the very reason that Comedian was killed, and of course his murder being the event which begins the wheels turning on the whole story, then he still has to have discovered *something*.. so did he stumble upon the factory where they were making the 'Manhattan Bombs? Is that how they massage it? worrisome

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Plllllllllll........

    by donkey_lasher

    lllllaaaaaannnnnnnnt. Giant Alien Plant that blows up everyone's brains.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST

    there is supposed to be a review embargo

    by bacci40

    until the 6th...raamses is in big trouble

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:17 p.m. CST

    I saw a clip of the anti-vigilante riot during the police strike

    by FluffyUnbound

    And "I'm Your Boogie Man" is playing as the Comedian gets ready to fuck the crowd up. I think I am going to really like this movie.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Why it's almost like he didn't see the movie at all!

    by ricarleite

    Nothing we didn't know, and nothing new. Barely a review. Oh well.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:18 p.m. CST

    This movie just will not work.

    by donkey_lasher

    It sounds like it's going to be a muddled mess.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Can you plagiarize other reviews?

    by D.Vader

    Cause that's pretty much what's happened here.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Why is it that whenever an actor is chewing scenery

    by Jor-El23

    He always has a cigar as a prop? It's almost like an unwritten requirement of Hollywood movies. The Comedian, Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men...it's like chewing on a cigar somehow means they also chew on scenery

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:20 p.m. CST

    What they should've done, but sadly didn't...

    by Johnno

    Even without the Squid this could've worked, I was hoping Zack thought of this but it sounds more and more like he didn't and I was just dreaming. Here was my idea, reposted:<br><br> "Just thought about this, but what if Snyder isn't precisely making Manhattan the cause, but it could be that Ozy is making it seem like Manhattan is calling forth an extraterrestrial threath!!!<br><br>Think about it, like those fucking energy made aliens from Day the earth stood still or whatever, it could be explained that Manhattan was a product of an alien universe, maybe Ozy would have it explained that his human form crossed over to some interdimensional place, and towards the end of the movie, Manhattan being all emotional would open a gateway into this alien place and that such energy lke beings like him would bombard the planet!!!! THIS WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION TO ALL OF THIS!!! The threath is not Manhattan himself, but Manhattan unwittingly opening up a gate to an alien world that supposedly made him and that would immediatedly attack the Earth upon Manhattan becoming angered at it and thus 'going to war'!!!! Hopefully this is what Snyder has in mind!!!! I pray it does as it'll solve everything for everyone and it'll in fact even be better!!!!!!!! Hopefully Snyder and Gibbons explain it as such... so the alien threath still remains and it fits in better. The comedian could've just been sent to investiagate something on an island where Ozy was planning to send up rockets and satellites or whatever technology he needed to make this happen and of course killed all the scientists and artists involved afterwards who were thinking it'd just be some kind of cool holographic light show to communicate things around the world!!!" <br><br>But it seems they weren't thinking hard enough...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Maybe he meant it physically?

    by donkey_lasher

    The Comedian chows down on a vietnamese whore.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:29 p.m. CST

    "WAAH WAAH SQUID WAAH BOYCOTT WAAH"

    by ArcadianDS

    Gee, Harry - I can't imagine why you can't see the film.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST

    comedian knowing the plot is stupid

    by cloudrider`

    even in the comics. hundreds of people working on the squid don't even know what it's for. and the comedian took a peek from an airplane and suddenly he KNEW the whole plot??? <p> it's so easy for the movie to go around that. the comedian can see something else on the island. i dont know why a lot of people are so worried about that. <p> but what i AM worried about is indeed the unnecessary substitution of the squid. whatever for? it works just fine as it is. a naked personel of blue man group with the power of god is waaaay sillier than a giant fake squid.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:33 p.m. CST

    DR. MANHATTAN is an alien

    by Harold The Great

    I thought that's what Ozzy will suggest at the end of the movie. An Alien, who played the major powers against each other, finally went crazy and tried to destroy the world. He can be back any time! UNITE!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:34 p.m. CST

    pretty much you could write this review fro mthe trailer

    by ArcadianDS

    in the latest trailer, Times Square goes kaboom in a big blue-white Dr Manhattan style explosion. Seems to me that "Manhattan Machines" is something anybody could have dreamed up just by watching the Daytona 500 special promo clip.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Watchman 2

    by Miguel De Barioz

    This made my dick go hard man!!! Can't wait to see this movie even tho' I never heard of Watchman before - Trailer looks good - loved 300 and Sin City too. I have seen Batman about ten times on dvd now and as soon as my cousin gets Watchman next month i'm gonna watch that 11 times - My dick is hard for this movie man. Few questions though - I hear a sequel may get made - bad move man, all sequels are shitty except Superman 2: The quest for peace. Also I hear that some of the villans are gay? Please someone confirm or deny. Also I understand that Samuel Jackson is being lined up to appear in more superhero films? Please someone confirm or deny.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:36 p.m. CST

    uh...

    by Dollar Bird

    What the heck's a "threath?" (Also, I am a jerk for pointing that out. But he typoed it, like, 3 times! I mean "times!!!!!")

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Manhatten IS an alien.

    by the Grobe

    In the sense that he is no longer "of this earth". He is an entirely different being altogether, hence fitting many definitions of alien. His indifference to human suffering due to his unique perspective on time-space makes him very dangerous to humans. I think the new ending can work- as long as he destroys enough American cities, he will effectively strike fear into the entire world as he will be seen as having gone rogue and beyond U.S. control. The only problem I see there is- what does a united world hope to achieve against an immortal being?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Hey guess what, *I* saw "Watchmen" too! My review!

    by D.Vader

    Oh man, this movie is just so freakin' awesome! It starts out with this very creative montage, set to Dylan's "The Times They Are-a Changing" and we see different aspects of America's rewritten history, including new stuff like Doc M on the moon and the other female Minutemen hero kissing that nurse like in the famous V-Day photo. <p> The actor who plays The Comedian is great, and his fight scene in his opening "death" scene is fantastic. <p> And let me say this: Rorschach. Is. THE. MAN. And the FX wizards deserve an Oscar for this, because they actually made his mask shift and move like ink blots- just like in the book! <p> Its very violent, Silk Spectre gets naked, and they even use some of the songs referenced in the book. <p> SPOILERS! <p> The big squid isn't there anymore. That's right, you heard it here first! Its now Ozy manipulating the public into thinking it was Doc Manhattan! Not a great change, but a blemish on an otherwise great movie! <p> By the way, did I mention that Dylan's song plays in the opening montage?!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Cloudrider

    by D.Vader

    Comedian wouldn't know the full plot from seeing the Squid, but AFTER it destroys NYC, he would know it wasn't alien, but manmade.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:42 p.m. CST

    giant blue erection goes critical

    by turketron

    He did some X, banged a hooker with giant blue glowing tentacle wang, and *KABOOM* went her body and the rest of the city.<p> That's how it would go down if it were Japanimation...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:43 p.m. CST

    and I'll whisper...no.

    by robert.thekilled

    I.AM.THERE

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Bob dylan story

    by Miguel De Barioz

    When Bob Dyaln filmed in Mexico my Grandpa served him beers in a bar. All the time Dylan was smoking and talking weird shit man. So may Grandpa has a bet with his friend Ramos - My Grandpa beats Ramos that he can get Bob Dylan to eat a Conjita. So my Grandpa sticks this Conjita in Dylans face and Dylan goes - Get lost man with your filthy Conjita! See my Grandpa go fucking wild at this - You Bob Dylan eat this Conjita man! So Dyalan starts shitting himself, thinking my Grandpa is crazy - so he its the conjita! It's so funny that Ramos starts eating the conjita too!! My Grandpa said Times were a changing that day! Ramos said The stone rolled down that day!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:46 p.m. CST

    does it make you happy you're so straaeeeaange...

    by turketron

    Yes.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:47 p.m. CST

    and in case you forgot. WATCHMEN ARE OVER

    by turketron

    *runs in place to funny noise and takes off with the sound of a bullet and a stream of smoke*

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:47 p.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by bacci40

    you are a funny guy

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:48 p.m. CST

    FUCK ALL YOU SQUIDHEAD BITCHES.

    by alucardvsdracula

    MOAN, MOAN, FUCKING MOAN. I'M NOW REEEL FUCKIN TIRED OF HEARING YOU LITTLE COCKSUCKERS GO ON AND ON ABOUT THE FUCKING SQUID. GET A LIFE FUCKOS AND GET FUCKED WHILE YOUR FUCKING AT IT. OKAY? OKAY. BUT SERIOUSLY THOUGH. GET FUCKED.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:50 p.m. CST

    The only movie you get by rubbing Barbara Eden

    by skimn

    is Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea..<p>or I Cream On Jeannie

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Who watches Harry watching the Watchmen?

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    The giant squid thats who.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:52 p.m. CST

    And I'm there on opening weekend

    by skimn

    Better get my IMAX tickets early.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:53 p.m. CST

    alucardvsdracula

    by bacci40

    please read Big_Daddy_Nero's post to see why the squid is important<p> as snyder made the black freighter, he does understand that the backstory is just as important as the main one, so he really needed to figure out how to incorporate it...not cut it

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:53 p.m. CST

    At least people aren't complaining about 'The Black Frieghter' a

    by JackLint

    For me that was the most irritating. Aside from being faithful for it's own sake, what would it have added to the movie? I would argue it would add just as much as it did to the book - nothing. I feel like I'm just utterly missing something in The Black Freighter, maybe somebody can explain it to me. I'm not oblivious to the thematic parallels, or even the sometimes overt juxtiposition. Yes, it's a mirror to the main narrative, but does it add any insight? In the book Misery, we read excerpts from the new 'Misery' novel the author is writing for his captor. The book-within-the-book deteriorates along with the author as he writes it. The metaphor is relevant because of it's immediacy and direct connection to the main character. No such connection exists between Black Freighter and anything in the Watchmen universe, there's no deeper relevance aside from a redundant metaphor.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:54 p.m. CST

    lol, "FUCKOS"

    by turketron

    The cereal that you can fuck! Better than warm apple pie!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:55 p.m. CST

    every week

    by werewolfbynight

    people are bitching and moaning because harry skips the dvd column. people there are several other places to get dvd reviews. this may surprise you but i am sure harry has a life outside of aicn. dp yourselves a favor and find your dvd news elsewhere. get a life and quit waiting for tuesday to feed your couch potato fetishes.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Actually the dump I had this morning...

    by alucardvsdracula

    ...looked exactley like a squid. Bit brown and orangey, but definately squid like. If only I hadn't fushed the fucker away, I could have have picked it up - with my bare hands - thrown it at my cat, filmed it, and sent it to Zack Shitter, or whatever the fuck he's called, so he could digitally insert it into a new final directors squiddy cut for all you turds out there. Fuck you, you squiddy bitches. Choke on em! Choke on em!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:59 p.m. CST

    The Squid

    by Davidia

    Was stupid to begin with. I'm glad they took it out, the general movie going public would've spit out their popcorn in laughter over that shit, and you rightly could in the comic too. It shrouded the fact that it was...well a stupid giant squid by making it dramatic and giving the characters weight in the situation. But come the fuck on, I betcha if Alan Moore thought of using Dr Manhattens power as the deus ex machina he would've jumped on that over the squid. And if you ask me using Dr Manhattens power enhances the story, and makes more sense conceptual in the watchmen universe. Look, I loved the watchmen, but when you drop a giant space-squid in as your climax, you're going to leave a few people scratching their heads.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 12:59 p.m. CST

    bacci40...

    by alucardvsdracula

    And why would I want to do that when I can stick my dick in my mom's ass? Sorry gotta go, she's calling me to dinner.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1 p.m. CST

    How's that DVD column coming along ???

    by Faust_8

    any week now...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:01 p.m. CST

    A V A T A R - FUCKING YOUR EYEBALLS IN 2009!!!!

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    Nothing. Else. Matters.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Watched the Motion Comic last night...

    by Sixtyhurts

    Man--that shit is LONG! <p> No WONDER Z. Snyder had to trim and snip and re-arrange. <p> GET. OVER. IT. <p> By-the-way: The motion comic was awesome, the graphic novel is legendary, and the movie will be incredible. <p> THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT MEDIUMS WITH DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS, LEVELS OF ENJOYMENT AND DEPTH, AND NEEDS. <p> They are all fabulous. DEAL WITH IT.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Get out the Miracle grow

    by Faust_8

    it's green, so it must be a plant !!!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Werewolfbynight, RE: DVD column

    by D.Vader

    Its not necessarily the lack of DVD column I'm complaining about (though it sure was helpful). Its more Harry's lazy fucking attitude regarding this site, nowadays. Sure he has a life outside this website but... does that mean he had NO life the past 11 years when this site was thriving? Not in its final death throes with Mori and Quint jumping ship, like it is now?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:03 p.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by cloudrider`

    comedian freaked out. that means he connected enough dots to know something is not right. and how is that possible when all the people working on the project dont even have a clue? all they know is they're creating a sfx for a bigbudget movie. i highly doubt ozzy has his masterplan written on a piece of paper and lay it around on the island for the comedian to peek.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Bacci

    by D.Vader

    Thanks.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:05 p.m. CST

    JackLint

    by bacci40

    the black freighter is drawn in the ec style<p> watchmen is also a commentary on the history of the american comic book, with the keane commission taking the place of the kefauver commission, but with the same end...the comic book heroes that are allowed to exist must do the bidding of the government<p> but as comics themselves are not seen as detrimental, ec lives<p> additionally, the book is written and drawn by 2 of the artists who go missing, who in their subconcious way, try to warn veidt of his folly<p> but like most fanboys who "grow up" (and veidt is most definitely a fanboy, christ, he still plays dressup) he refuses to listen, as he cant be bothered anympore with childish things like comics

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Well, I'm no biologist...

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    ...but (as some talkbackers already pointed out) I smell plant!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Davidia

    by mode_7

    If you thought the squid sucked in the book then not only do you not love Watchmen, you also failed to understand it. Now fuck off.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Really curious to see how this movie fares with the masses....

    by amrisharmpit

    I think it will do well with the book's fans and the general fanbase that likes sci-fi/action/fantasy movies. My guess is that the lack of built-in recognition for the characters, the lack of big-name stars, the R rating, the length, and the weighty tone will keep others away. The good thing, though, is that it doesn't really matter. The movie is a one-off, not a franchise. What is more important is that Warner Bros. was willing to take a risk. From a moneymaking standpoint, Watchmen is not a slam-dunk by any means. To the studio's credit, they allowed Snyder to do a faithful adaptation of complex and challenging material. I applaud them for that.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    the squid is not stupid

    by cloudrider`

    if it's not stupid in the hands of moore and gibbons when they put it in the book, it's not going to be stupid in the hand of a talented director when it shows up on the screen. <p> the problem is snyder doesn't have the confidence. he doesnt believe he has that talent to pull it off, hence he chickened out.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:10 p.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by bacci40

    dude....you missed the lead...you were supposed to say...FUNNY HOW? LIKE IM A CLOWN, I AMUSE YOU?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:10 p.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by bacci40

    dude....you missed the lead...you were supposed to say...FUNNY HOW? LIKE IM A CLOWN, I AMUSE YOU?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:14 p.m. CST

    The sex was harsh in the GN?

    by ominus

    has the plant read the comic at all?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Re: "harsh" sex

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    A big LOL to that! The reviewer must be, like, 12 years old or something...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:16 p.m. CST

    "Visionairy" Director Snack Snyder

    by Dapper Swindler

    I don't know what exactly is meant by "visionary" but he is definitely "visual". He seems extremely concerned with the visual quality of all his movies. And every interview he has done about Watchmen he has emphasized what it looks like and how it looks like the graphic novel, including all those background details, etc. That's actually what I'm concerned with - it's going to look like Watchmen but not feel like it. And with respect to Dave Gibbons, the art in Watchmen was never revolutionary, nor was it supposed to be.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:16 p.m. CST

    I WANT MY SQUID - Zach Snyder raped my middle age

    by Oberon

    Or something like that.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Dammit Bacci

    by D.Vader

    That's what I get for thinking I can divide my attention between 5 different TB's while writing at the same time. Not as sharp as I thought I was. <p> Ok, ok, let's try again... <p> FUNNY HOW? What am I, a COMEDIAN, here to amuse you?!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST

    The "harsh" sex

    by MSA13

    He's probably talking about the rape (or was it?).

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST

    I want TP for my bunghole!

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    I am Cornholio!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Another review is up and says its "staggering failure"

    by drturing

    http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/02/staggering_fail.php<p> Most horrid of all apparently is Malin Akerman's acting. Which I thought in the trailer sounded like Cameron Diaz.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:23 p.m. CST

    I just want to see Silk Spectre II getting pounded...

    by Han Cholo

    The chick playing her is so hot. I'm glad Snyder and Co. updated the costumes because they look too 80's in the Comic. But that skin tight number she's wearing looks hot!!!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:23 p.m. CST

    visionary

    by cloudrider`

    'visionary' obviously only meant 'having visual flair' to hollywood(or the marketing people). if all you do is copy and paste art from one medium to another, it's hardly what you can call 'visionary', is it? <p> now, james cameron is a visionary.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST

    From someone who liked the 20 minute sizzle reel

    by drturing

    "I've seen Watchmen," he began. "And speaking as a huge admirer and devotee of the graphic novel, the film is a staggering failure. On the plus side, you've got a pretty literal adaptation of the source material. It is at times a meticulous and gorgeous recreation of Alan Moore's original work. Unfortunately it's an empty, inert, meandering and, yes, boring 2 hours and 45 minutes. "Oh, and it's horribly acted throughout. Truly. Malin Akerman (i.e., Silk Spectre II) confirms whatever fears you may have initially felt after The Heartbreak Kid and 27 Dresses. Carla Gugino (the other Silk Spectre) just looks silly. Patrick Wilson (Nite Owl II) is his usual blah self. Only Jackie Earle Haley's Rorschach and Billy Crudup's Dr. Manhattan register at all. "Sadly even the presumed up-and-comer Matthew Goode plays Ozymandias, the world's smartest man, as an arch and slightly bored Bond villain. "

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST

    I am Bungholio!

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    Do not make my bunghole angry!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Jeez, mode7, you're a massive tool

    by Davidia

    What turns you all into such vagina's over someone voicing a subjective opinion. I'm sorry I'm not as gifted at understanding art, mode7. I guess my weak little pea-brain didn't understand the absolute gigantic ramifications the squid has on the story. Alright, mode7, it's been years since I read the watchmen. But I challenge you to explain in great detail and actual non-bullshit points has to how the squid is the cornerstone of the watchmen story. Tell me, with your sweaty chubby fingers not pressing the wrong keys, how the watchmen's narrative would be absolutely crippled without the squid, and how its presence is more than a deus ex machina. Tell me how without it the watchmen story, characters, and mere essence would not be the same, or as highly regarded. If you can do that and impress me doing it I won't put you in my nightly prayers to get beaten to death in the moonlight. Until than, suck the shit straight from my colon you easily-antagonized massive cry-baby nerd.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST

    "Oh what Paul Greengrass would have done"

    by D.Vader

    You mean, fucked it up completely by making Watchmen a contemporary story of heroes fighting terrorists? Yeah fuck that shit.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST

    meh

    by ironic_name

    moore is crazy.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:28 p.m. CST

    I still say no squid is a good thing

    by jimmy_009

    The squid always stood out to me as tainting an otherwise great story. I mean it was completely ridiculous. When I got to that point, I was like hey that squid alien looks great on a double page spread, but wait a minute... a squid alien? really? After all of that?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST

    3 exclusive clips online

    by Chain

    http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mkt=en-us&vid=f415cb4c-5e1a-435c-9386-5f966fa41e7f&from=&fg=rss http://www.comcast.net/entertainment/reelnews/2728/seeitherefirstexclusivewatchmenclip/ http://www.totalfilm.com/news/world-exclusive-watchmen-clip

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST

    My thought after reading the GN

    by Geekhaterssuck

    was "Damn I hope they take out that giant squid in the movie. I just read the GN for the first time recently it was a birthday present. Anyway loved it up to the point of the giant squid, and I'm very interested to see how the GN translates to the silver screen. From what I've seen so far it looks slick and should be enjoyable.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Cut through the shit.

    by HoboCode

    Does Ackerman show her tits or not?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Apparently it's a disaster

    by kwisatzhaderach

    No surprise really. Slo-mo CG bullshit ahoy.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Where's the squid? GIMME A FUCKIN' ANSWER!!!

    by westie

    Ozymandias doesn't need to start moving; Rorshach needs to stop moving!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST

    i am laughing with this review

    by ominus

    if Bale was here,he would laugh too

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Davidia

    by mode_7

    Just check out the any other fucking Watchmen talkback if you really feel the need to have all that answered. It's been discussed ad nauseam by many, many, many fucking people including myself.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:37 p.m. CST

    oh no another slaughter fest

    by Norm3

    I'm so gored out, enough already.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST

    pissed off and bitter, silk spectre 2 is malin ackerman..

    by jig98

    number 1 is carla gugino. both actresses were love interests of ben stiller once. 1 was from night at the museum and 2 was from the heartbreak kid. so excited for this movie it's unFUCKINGbelievable!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST

    precisely because it's completely ridiculous...

    by cloudrider`

    that the squid works! even rorschach laughed at the concept at first. but ozzy is right of course, he knows that it will only take something outworldly, something so huge and horrifying and so far out of the norm to get the world to pay attention. <p> then again, if you live in the world where an omnipotent blue naked being is roaming around, then a giant squid is merely the next thing to believe. <p>you dont live in the watchmen world. you dont have their perspective. and that's why it's harder for you to accept the squid.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Interesting Logic Cloudrider

    by Geekhaterssuck

    I think it's just a case of good idea bad execution. I think the idea Moore used was excellent I just the representation of that idea (the giant squid) was kind of weak. Just my opinion.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Chain...thanks.

    by Kevin Holsinger

    I'm feeling better and better about Matthew Goode as Ozymandias. Unfortunately, I'm now feeling like Jackie Earle Haley is over-delivering his lines.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Bacci

    by JackLint

    The reference to E.C. comics is valid, though I think it's a little too removed from the narrative to be completely necessary. The artists trying to warn Veidt on the other hand is definitely interesting. Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see anything in the book for me to make that connection. I'll have to re-read the scenes with the artists. Still, the artists are such minor characters that whatever connection is there isn't enough to bridge the gap. Maybe it makes it relevant, but I don't think it makes it as important (and indispensable) as it's supposed to be.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST

    No Squid, no dice

    by Dancingforever

    I will not see this, I won't support it, I won't give them a dime. I have the GN and that's all I need. This abortion has been earmarked for doom ever since Snyder announced he was changing he ending and the core fans pulled their support in droves. Enjoy the fan base you have now Snyder, a gang of emo teens who don't have the ability to understand why the squid was there. You have appealed to the lowest denominator and this decision will not only curse this project but beyond. You had a chance to do something ballsy, to try to pull off the most amazing visual ever seen in cinema, and instead you turn a brilliant climax into a trite over used cliche end with nuclear explosions in big cities? Well we have never seen that before. Snyder you are an abortion that should have happened, a no talent hack who will never be forgiven for fooking up what could have been the great deconstruction story ever. Also nice job getting that thief of a composer to join in for the phone on this. You surround yourself with buffoons sir, and your supports are well represented here you certified dumb ass.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:57 p.m. CST

    I was hoping to find out...

    by photoboy

    ... if the changed ending actually makes sense. I mean the squid ending worked because it was properly built up to in the story, and mankind was forced to peace by the greater threat of an alien invasion. I'm not sure how tricking the world into thinking Dr. Manhattan is responsible does anything other than make the US a target. Hopefully this will be properly sorted out in the movie. I'd still have preferred the squid too.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Dancingforever

    by Geekhaterssuck

    Don't hold back man tell us how you really feel.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2 p.m. CST

    yer mama, I hope you're right.

    by Kevin Holsinger

    Maybe I'm hearing things. When I saw the bank scene from "The Dark Knight" online, that too seemed overacted. But I don't remember a single review of that movie complaining about overacting (I still haven't seen it).<BR><BR>So maybe I'm just hearing things.<BR><BR>On a different note...without getting into spoilers, were you satisfied with the non-squid ending?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2 p.m. CST

    Jeffrey Wells has an anonymous reviewer "friend"...

    by FluffyUnbound

    ...who I assume is Wells himself. Jeffrey Wells gargles more semen than anyone else writing on the internet today. If a film isn't Ordinary People, he hates it. And you can tell that his readership is composed of worthless cunts, because all his commenters seem to hate 300, and while I can see having a "Meh" reaction to 300 if you HATE it, it's almost certain that you're a no-good cunt who thinks that there was no art before naturalism was invented in the late 19th century and no film before Bonnie and Clyde was made.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Um that makes no sense if the rest of the story is intact

    by Rubiks Doob

    Dr. Manhattan is a good guy- just totally apathetic about the human race. In the end he goes along with Ozymandias' plan because he sees the logic in it and it sits well with his apathy. To suddenly make him a co-conspirator throws his character's whole arc down the drain and it makes the entire rest of the plot(not too mention the cast) completely unnecessary. Ozymandias needs to be clever about getting away with it because he's not all powerful. Dr. Manhattan is a god. So there's no risk to his plan ever even failing= no tension in the movie and no reason to kill The Comedian in the first place. What a shame. The visuals of the true ending in the book are cool as hell too... Oh well. What a shocker, Alan Moore was right again. Hollywood cannot help but fuck up his stories even when handed to them on a silver platter.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Dancingforever

    by FluffyUnbound

    I prefer the Squid ending too, but if you really want to see that basic concept just watch the Outer Limits episode Moore borrowed the idea from.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:10 p.m. CST

    They got rid of the Gimp like skimask the Comedian wears too.

    by kenjinattix

    WHERE IS THE SQUIDRAGE...Errr...I mean OUTRAGE

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Why did they cast the pedophile from hard candy and

    by ricarleite

    McCaulin Culkin for Nite Owl 2 and Ozy respectively?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai....

    by jimmy_009

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai

    by jimmy_009

    You're not funny and about two weeks too late.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:14 p.m. CST

    "That said . . ."

    by Fatty Magee

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:15 p.m. CST

    SQUID SO SERIOUS

    by turketron

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:16 p.m. CST

    yer mama, thanks for the info.

    by Kevin Holsinger

    Considering I think about the reality of the book's ending, it wouldn't surprise me that the movie would be the same thing essentially.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Rubiks Doob

    by ominus

    well said man,well said.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:19 p.m. CST

    There should have Bale as squid

    by ominus

    at the end of the film.it would be more realistic too,even if it wasnt in the movies context.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Sigh

    by Shakes

    What a waste of an article. Some reviewer repeating details that we all already know about, with the only possible exception being Manhattan on the Moon. As for the squid debate which will inevitably pop up, importance or lack of it to the story aside, I know for me the squid was one of the key visuals of the comic, and not having it in the movie is disappointing, just from a visual sense. It'd be like a King Kong movie where there's no other dinosaurs on skull island, ala the 70's version.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:22 p.m. CST

    the squid can be lovecraftian

    by cloudrider`

    if the monster can terrify in cloverfield and the mist, then it sure as hell can have the same impact in the watchmen movie. nuking the city is too cliched and artistically bankrupt. <p>but i understand. must attract those explosions loving crowd, see. that's where the money is. romero is right. zombies love fireworks!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:26 p.m. CST

    It doesn't matter if it's a squid, whale, alien, robot, whatever

    by MattmanReturns

    It blows up the minute it materializes and that's the only purpose it has. Scare people into peace. It can be anything. It's a fucking metaphor.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Shakes

    by mode_7

    I'm with you on the visual. I could (and have) sit here debating the structural significance and symbolism and shit like that but when all's said and done I just really wanted to see those splash pages up there on the big screen. It's a fuckin shame it really is.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Your obsessions will be your down fall

    by Diagnostic

    be careful. get them right.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:29 p.m. CST

    No Squid=NO BIG FUCKING DEAL

    by DECTHEMAN

    I have read the book/novel fivr times or more, and the squid/alien never seemed like such a big deal-this movie looks just like the book, get over the fucking squid asswipes.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:32 p.m. CST

    "Dr Manhattan energy machines"

    by Rupee88

    As has been pointed out elsewhere, the Squid wasn't sacred, but they should have replaced it with something better and more alien...just lazy writing.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:34 p.m. CST

    So is the genetic engineer angle (Bubastis) in it?

    by Baron Karza

    Or is he (Ozy) just a odd pretentious rich guy?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:37 p.m. CST

    bad feeling

    by name818

    We've overhyped it. We are expecting a miracle of a movie with no real stars, a half assed director, a 5 hour movie edited to 2 and a half and story editing... I really get the feeling we are all going to be let way down. Especially after seeing that clip of the Comedian jumping down in slow mo...God i got a bad feeling.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST

    FluffyUnbound

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Watch me destroy your argument. I thought 300 was a total piece of shit. But some of my favourite films are Nosferatu, Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible Pts I & II and The Seventh Seal. Ka-boom! That was your argument being detonated.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:40 p.m. CST

    a giant teddy bear

    by cloudrider`

    is still a better option than manhattan nuking the city. at least it'd be unexpected. explosions is booorrring. oh oh, the explosion is BLUE this time! how fucking original!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Squidgate

    by kwisatzhaderach

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:43 p.m. CST

    The full scene up on defamer.com

    by Mr. Profit

    Kills the hype for me a bit. Malin Ackerman is borderline terrible in the scene posted on there.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:45 p.m. CST

    could've used DAHLEKS

    by turketron

    EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Early reviews

    by Geekhaterssuck

    have seemingly been positive. I don't know I'm not obsessed with the product I'm just hoping for a interpretation that stays faithful the spirit of the source material. I'm reserving judgement until it I actually see it.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Faithful to the spirit of the source material

    by ominus

    nice logic from the fanboys.so a porno movie which has the GN's spirit will be considered as faithful interpretation of the comic.an artwork by itself,a respectul adaptation of a masterpiece. <P>GOOD WINES

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    The problem with no squid...

    by Angry White baby

    Rupee88: "As has been pointed out elsewhere, the Squid wasn't sacred, but they should have replaced it with something better and more alien...just lazy writing." I have to agree with you Rupee. The problem here is that Squid or no squid, the threat has to be EXTRA Terrestrial. Whether Doc Manhattan does something perceived as "on purpose" or "by accident", or is now considered "rogue" is beside the point. He has been working for the US for quite some time, meaning anything done (like mass murder) that can be attached to him is going to unite the world against US. Now if that is what Zack wants, okay. But the whole point of the squid was not just to connect it with the Black Freighter sub-story but hint at Ozymandiu's "Nemo-ish" personality (as in: what was Nemo's nemesis in 20K UNDER THE SEA? Other than the Brits?). Even so, whether it was a giant squid, a vorlon, shadow, monster from the ID, whatever, the whole point was that the threat was from another world. EVERYONE would have no other choice but to unite. That is not going to happen if the source of the mass destruction is someone who worked for any one country, which if anything is going to CAUSE a World War 3 to happen, not stop it. We all know how most people are when it comes to America, and that they have a love-hate relationship. Regardless of any explanation for Doc Manhattan's actions the world is going to ignore it and blame America for creating him. Now again, if this is what Zack wants, fine, but that's not going to result in a big box office when your message is that in order for their to be world peace America must be destroyed.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    THESE MANHATTAN BOMBS ARE FUCKING DISTRACTING!!!!!

    by rhcp2sweet

    but seriously, the squid is a necessary part of the story. I can kind of see why they cut it out, thinking it would look silly on screen, but these Dr. Manhattan Bombs don't make any sense to the rest of the story as many people above me have pointed out <p> </p> That being said, I need to go reread the graphic novel before I see the movie.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 2:59 p.m. CST

    BTW..

    by Angry White baby

    How do you guys create spaces between paragraphs when posting? I didn't mean for that last post to be one continuous paragraph like that.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    The Squid is unnecessary. Get over it.

    by JacksParasites

    The lengths people will go to in order to argue that The Squid is an irreplaceable plot device is hilarious. "But the missing writers and artists blah, blah, blah!" Two lines of dialogue can easily make the appropriate adjustment to ensure a non-Cloverfield ending. Even a hack Hollywood writer w/ zero talent could find a plausible means of making a substitute threat work, so anyone who thinks this is not possible suffers from a serious failure of imagination. And I for one won't miss squidy anyway as it, A, has nothing whatsoever to do with why Watchmen is great in the first place and B, it was a way too over the top, goofy device in the first place.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    ▲V▲T▲R

    by Stengah

    From Producer/Director James Cameron comes...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    The Squid would look awesome onscreen

    by Dapper Swindler

    They didn't cut it because it would look silly or for budget reasons. They cut it because it took too long to explain and opted for something that was more economical to the plot.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Hey Ominus

    by Geekhaterssuck

    Your interpretation of my statement is shortsighted and idiotic. Of course a "porno" would not be in the spirit of the source. All I am saying is it doesn't have to be a page by page copy in order to be good. And I would hardly consider myself to be a "fanboy" of Watchmen. Yeah I liked it, but I've only read it once and I didn't get it till last year, so I'm hardly a "fanboy." You missed the point of what I was saying totally so try to have an inkling of understanding and intelligence before you make a ignorant statement like that.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Manhattan bombs wouldn't make the world attack the US

    by Dapper Swindler

    Not if, and only if, those Manhattan bombs took out US cities. The world wouldn't blame the US and attack them. He was created by accident and now he's everybody's problem. What logic am I missing here?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Angry White baby

    by Kevin Holsinger

    < BR > ...just without the spaces. One of those makes a paragraph break. Two (< BR >< BR >) makes a full space.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    GN was great but liked it until the squid!

    by awepittance

    (the above subject line is a parody of an asshole)

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Foregone Conclusions

    by gavdiggity

    Yet again, it looks like people have already made up their minds on this movie without have seen it. It doesn't matter how good or bad this movie turns out to be, people already love it or hate it, and seeing the movie will not change their minds about it. <p> As a fan of the book, I'm cautiously optimistic about it, squid ending or no. At the very least, I'm looking forward to seeing Rorschach on the big screen.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST

    ...without HAVING seen it

    by gavdiggity

    goddamn it...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Kwisatzhaderach

    by FluffyUnbound

    Yeah, but I bet you loved AI and The Thin Red Line.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Re: dapper

    by awepittance

    you are missing the fact that Dr. Manhattan regardless of how he was created is the United State's new A-bomb, something much more powerful than Russia's hydrogen bombs, causing the balance to tip extremely in the USA's favor as a world power. When in the comic book does the US ever portray Manhattan as some sort of rogue force that can change sides at any time? never. in fact the reason the world is so close to the brink of nuclear war is because HE LEAVES in the planet, eliminating one of the USAs most powerful chess pieces from the game of global domination.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST

    ATTN: Squid Hating Fuckwits

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    This is for all the literary savants out there who insist "the squid was stupid" in Moore's WATCHMEN:<BR><BR>Please commit suicide en masse at your earliest convenience. In the meantime: shut the fuck up, you babbling, illiterate piss-ants.<BR><BR>Many Thanks,<BR>LVF

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST

    What the fuck...

    by nukethefridge

    ...is a motion comic???????

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST

    No Squid?

    by Slippy

    So I guess the Squid WON'T be fucking our eyeballs out in 2009.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:13 p.m. CST

    changing the ending is like putting Jar Jar Binks in Star Wars

    by Gorgomel

    big mistake!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:18 p.m. CST

    ATTN: LVF

    by Geekhaterssuck

    To LVF While not going as far as "the squid is stupid." I stand by my statement that the squid was poor execution of a brillant idea. You don't like my opinion oh well. That doesn't make me "an illiterate piss-ant." You obviously need to buy a thesaurus or dictionary if your vocabulary is limited to such childish, moronic insults. Many thanks, Geekhaterssuck.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:18 p.m. CST

    I think we need more...

    by WhinyNegativeBitch

    ...FIRED UP name drops.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Re: awepittance

    by Dapper Swindler

    Okay, I still don't get it. Manhattan is never portrayed as rogue, but he is portrayed as gradually distant and frustrated by humans. So much, that after his brief retreat to Mars I could believe the lie that he just decided to blow up cities in an effort to stop the petty quarreling among the nuclear powers. This forces the super powers to either comply and cease fighting, or stop fighting long enough until they can find a way to eliminate Dr. Manhattan. I don't see any reason why they would go after the US knowing that a) this won't solve the problem of Dr. Manhattan and b) Dr. Manhattan is threatening to destroy them if they engage in further conflict.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:24 p.m. CST

    I love AI and The Thin Red Line

    by D.Vader

    What the fuck is it to you?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Actually < p > will make a full space

    by D.Vader

    I think that's easier than 2 < BR > back to back. <br> Test.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:26 p.m. CST

    holy crap that clip on defamer is BAD

    by ArcadianDS

    I saw it for myself and everything you are hearing about that scene is true. Malin is TERRIBLE. She sounds like a youtube fan-made parody of Watchmen in that scene.<p> one can only hope she gets better as the scene moves on.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Geekhaterssuck

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Oh I've spent far more TB time than I care to recall more or less cordially debating why Moore's original climax was not "stupid." Frankly, I'm weary of all the inane, childish bitching from squid proponents and opponents alike. In that context, my post was meant to be more than a tad ironic. However it was intended, my post targeted the annoying fuckwits--yes, *fuckwits*--who literally write again and again that Moore's "squid ending" was "stupid."<BR><BR>That stated, I'm actually giving the film adaptation the benefit of the doubt, regardless of the change.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST

    you're right. you still dont get it.

    by cloudrider`

    how would the rest of the world know about the real reason doc manhattan behaving the way it did(blowing up all major cities)? the russia will just take the american's words at face value, will they? <p> manhattan as a method is flawed because it will only create distrust among nations. it HAS to be a solution that has no ties to any one nation on earth. ozy IS the smartest man on earth. you, are not. trust his method.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:32 p.m. CST

    D.Vader, did not know that.

    by Kevin Holsinger

    Thanks.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:32 p.m. CST

    The Squid will be in the film!

    by HugePrawn

    This whole "the ending has been changed" controversy has been cleverly designed by the filmmakers to keep the Squid ending a secret. I mean the whole deal with Zack Synder from the beginning has been about staying as true as possible to the Graphic Novel. We've seen the painstaking steps he has taken to insure that the panels from the comic are faithfully restored in the film. EVERYTHING is 100% faithful to the comic source. So why on Earth do you think Zack would change the ending of the film to Dr. Manhattan energy machines? It doesn't make sense. This review that Harry posted is clearly planted to keep us Fanboys surprised when we see this film in March. The threat needs to come from outerspace in order for it to work - bottom line. I guarantee you that the Squid, or a variation of some sort, will be at the end of the movie.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:32 p.m. CST

    You WILL let my movie go!!!

    by Archive

    I want to see this movie, and before I do, I want to read Harry's review. Come on, Lloyd Levin! You Knowles what to do!!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Geekhaterssuck

    by mode_7

    What exactly do you mean by poor execution? I remember when I first read the book I couldn't believe how fast it descended into awkward exposition and ridiculous comic book cliché at it's climax. Then I slowly realised that that is exactly what Moore intended and that it really couldn't work any other way. There's a reason people call it a work of genius.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:34 p.m. CST

    LVF

    by Geekhaterssuck

    well something we can agree on is the weariness of the inane whining. I'm not a squid proponent but then again the GN was written in a number of years ago so a giant squid would be a more terrifying prospect then I suppose. I just remember being a tad underwhelmed by the prospect.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Wait, if Manhattan is framed for the attack...

    by Kevin Holsinger

    ...does that mean he doesn't leave for Parts Unknown, but sticks around to be Ozymandias' perpetual threat?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    The squid could be cool if it was FUCKING DONE PROFESSIONALLY...

    by turketron

    Just saying.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:36 p.m. CST

    That negative review is suspicious....

    by WhinyNegativeBitch

    ...Tom Cruise? Really? Tom Fucking Cruise? Patrick Wilson is his usual blah self? So we know this guys comments on the acting mean jack shit, because he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. He says he liked the graphic novel, but that it lacked narrative pull of characters to invest in. What the fuck did he like then? The pictures? Which he says are nice but hollow? Or did he just like the graphic novel because you are meant to?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Why the movie ending doesn't work

    by mode_7

    Tension is already extremely high between the US and Russia. Moscow explodes in a huge blue fireball. There is no fucking way on god's green earth the Russians are gonna wait for the news reports before they counter attack. In fact they'd probably wait a maximum of 12 seconds.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST

    So, they Nuked The Squid?

    by turketron

    BTW, I can't watch the motion comics... there's one guy doing all the voices... even the female ones. It's fucking disTRACTing

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Re: CloudRider

    by Dapper Swindler

    Right, the fake Manhattan would have to give his message along with the bombs. But I don't see how anyone would think it was all a ruse by the US government if US cities were targeted in the attack - that's a pretty good alibi.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:42 p.m. CST

    WhinyNegativeBitch

    by mode_7

    I think that review was referencing a rumour that was going around a while back that Cruise was in fact attached to play Ozy. It's pretty perfect casting if you think about it.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST

    The Defamer clip is just "meh"

    by D.Vader

    I think everyone declaring Malin as "awful" are jumping the gun a bit. She really did not have enough lines within that short clip to make such a determination. I don't think she had a line that had more than 3 words in it anyway.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Mode7

    by Geekhaterssuck

    My idea of poor execution is in the squid itself. I don't know all I can say is the GN was a masterful read for me until that point and all I could think was "The best the supposed super genius could come up with was a giant squid?" It just bugged me personally.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:47 p.m. CST

    mode_7

    by WhinyNegativeBitch

    No its not. It would have been shitty casting. Not that I get Matthew Goode for the role entirely either. Seems a little...young and soft. And I've seen The Lookout. Just doesn't seem...like he has the presence.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Yeeesh...

    by Davidia

    I ask for an explanation on why you angry douchebags insist the squid was important. I don't even care if it's from what's his face, just an explanation from anyone. What is the best you guys can come up with? "You're stupid and didn't get it". That may be probable (but likely not possible), you guys STILL have nothing to back up the argument of the squid being essential to the story ARCH of the Watchmen. So until you guys can prove me wrong, yes...the squid was stupid, and yes you are an idiot.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Yeah maybe...

    by mode_7

    ...I suppose it's just that the character of Ozy doesn't seem a million miles away from that of the Cruiser himself, what with all his arrogant messianic scientological bullshit. I always thought Val Kilmer would have been a good fit. I dunno though, he's probably a little too old.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST

    And just...

    by Davidia

    Do me a favor people, get your meaty paws off the keyboard, stare outside the window, take a deep breathe, and repeat after me "I am debating the relevancy of an alien squid in an otherwise classic story. A squid. A f-u-c-k-i-n-g a-l-i-e-n squid." Watchmen is a masterpiece, and even masterpieces can have their flaws (Two-face in TDK anyone).

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Geekhaterssuck

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Understood. I don't mean to shame those who dislike the use (or execution) of the squid in the GN (like yourself). Nor do I mean to disparage anyone making reasonable arguments on one side or another of the argument.<BR><BR>The following is specifically the kind of post to which I was responding:<BR><BR>"Squid was stupid to begin with. I'm glad they took it out, the general movie going public would've spit out their popcorn in laughter over that shit, and you rightly could in the comic too. It shrouded the fact that it was...well a stupid giant squid by making it dramatic and giving the characters weight in the situation. But come the fuck on, I betcha if Alan Moore thought of using Dr Manhattens power as the deus ex machina he would've jumped on that over the squid. And if you ask me using Dr Manhattens power enhances the story, and makes more sense conceptual in the watchmen universe. Look, I loved the watchmen, but when you drop a giant space-squid in as your climax, you're going to leave a few people scratching their heads."<BR><BR>Every WATCHMEN TB produces numerous posts of this nature--no literate reasoning or evidence of any kind displayed. Just a knee-jerk, shallow, impulsive spew of opinion. <BR><BR>Ah, TB. Love it or leave it, I suppose...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:54 p.m. CST

    not a ruse

    by cloudrider`

    but to russia and the rest of the world there will always be that lingering feeling the US has not told them the whole truth about the incident. and that distrust, over time, can always come back to create tension. <p> it's also fair to assume that the russia could eventually blame the US for manhattan acting the way it did(he was after all, in the US's care). and there's that notion that he can always come back to the US side.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Davidia

    by mode_7

    Seriously man, we're all tired of the same fucking back and forth. It's been going on for months, just check out a previous talkback.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST

    This review could be a ruse...

    by MrSentinel

    I would imagine, unless told from the makers of the film, we have no reason to believe that the squid has in fact been removed from the film. Otherwise, the end of the movie is right there in the trailer. Big ball of energy that wipes out Times Square. Heck, even the Cloverfield monster was a lot more believeable. I'd like to have some hope the original climax of the film is indeed intact. Silhouette is yummy, by the way.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:56 p.m. CST

    mode7

    by Davidia

    I don't feel like digging up month old talkbacks to get what should be at most a three sentence explanation. In the time it takes for people to say how dumb we are for saying the squid was stupid, they could be explaining to us why it was not.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:56 p.m. CST

    It's Almost Impossible to Convey the Dour

    by Guy Gaduois

    nature of our future as portrayed in the mid 80s. I graduated the year before Watchmen was released in g.n., and every freaking movie, every freaking miniseries, songs on the radio, books on the shelf all told us we were either going to die from nuclear attack or wish we were dead as we were walking in our winter wonderland. The threat of nuclear annihlation was the central theme to everything. That sensationalistic portrayal that began in the fifties had reached its peak - hell, they weren't even saying we should hide under our desks or put wet newspapers over our heads - or as my friend from London told me "paint our windows white". At least in the fifties and sixties they ran drills making you think you might survive. <p> By the 80's, that illusion was dead and we were instead treated to the grim realities portrayed in "The Day After" . . . and then required to do a report on the mini-series for school! Like, screw off, teach; the world's coming to a grisly end: Do you really think I care if you give me a "C" this semester 'cause I didn't do a report on the end of the world? Suck it." <p> So much of the Watchmen was brilliantly predictive, but Ozymandias was wrong about humanity rallying around a common evil. You can't even get a headline about a Muslim in Buffalo cutting his wife's head off AFTER you've had muslims crashing planes into towers and building car bombs. If Ozymandias was right, people would have rallied around stomping out religion and tyrants long ago. <p> The snowbikes were cool. Segue owes to Alan Moore.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Davidia this must be your first Watchmen TB

    by D.Vader

    Because there are always PLENTY of explanations for why the Squid is important and a much better tool of destruction than blaming Doc Manhattan. <p> Some people disagree, others don't.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:03 p.m. CST

    I am not a true watchmen fan

    by Davidia

    Nope, not a fan at all. Apparently my opinion of something is stripped away because I don't appreciate the god-send ending that was the squid.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST

    "WE know the grandeur of the obtuseness that is the squid."

    by turketron

    I just fucking lost it and I'm laughing at my desk... I don't give a shit either way as I haven't finished the GN yet, but that statement made me crack up

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST

    LVF

    by Geekhaterssuck

    Very true on the talkback issue. I'm sure your also agree that there is too much childish banter and dimwitted replies that are just based on "Well he didn't like it and I did so he's stupid!" I love debating topics, it's fun to me, but a lot of these posts are just pointless.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST

    LOL @ KurtLockwood

    by panicdawg

    Take your meds. Everything will be okay.....

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:11 p.m. CST

    This review is FUCKING BULLSHIT

    by D.Vader

    I don't understand why we're wasting our time on a TB for a nonstory. Shame on Harry for posting this crap.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Geekhaterssuck

    by mode_7

    We do it because it's fun, I think new users don't get that about this site sometimes. The primary function of this site is to give otherwise ordinary people a place to express their built up nerdrage. The way I see it, it's kinda like fightclub for movie geeks.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:11 p.m. CST

    And yet...

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    engaging in insipid name-calling can be a good time. <BR><BR>In truth, every WATCHMEN TB historically improves with time (i.e., the tail-end debates often are the most reasonable and mature). Me: I'm done trying to defend the GN's climax. It is what it is. I admire it. And I'm done bitching about the lack of squid in the film adaptation. Maybe Snyder can pull it off. I hope he will. Sincerely.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Guy Gaduois

    by cloudrider`

    ozy's plan is not about uniting against common evil. it's about uniting against evil that's beyond our understanding. evil muslims will do the job as much as an evil alien can. at the very least, the existence of alien itself will make humans contemplate about their religions, to question their god. that can be the first step to eradicate religions and wipe the slate clean for all humanity. it will also FORCE people of all beliefs and races to unite because of their sheer hopelessness. there's something out there, beyond our world, terrifying and dangerous. that notion will make you feel dickless you have no choice but to unite.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    This review sucked! And squid...

    by Coma Baby

    I'm hoping it's good and all, but it really seems like that guy just watched the trailer or one of those 20 minute teaser things. <P> And pretty much anything that can be said about the squid was said already, and much better, on both sides, way back, months ago: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39131

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    evil muslims CAN NOT do the job...

    by cloudrider`

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Damn You Michael Bay

    by MCMLXXVI

    Damn You Michael Bay

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Re: CloudRider

    by Dapper Swindler

    Sure, there could be lingering doubt that festers over time. But you could say the same thing about the Squid. Science could advance and they could do DNA tests, locate any evidence left by Veidt, or find Rorschach's journal. It would probably take 20 years or so, the same amount of time I would give for the fake Manhattan bomb lie. So it's interchangeable in that regard. <p> And sure, Russia could blame the US for making Manhattan go rogue by not monitoring his psychology well enough. But that's not a reason for a country to attack another country, it would be spilled milk. And even if there was some possibility that Manhattan would return to the US instead of be rogue forever, go to a different galaxy, or join another country - that's just more reason to work together to eliminate him. Besides, with both those reasons, I'm assuming the fake Manhattan is holding the world hostage to prevent them from starting such bickering wars in the first place. <p> By the way, I do like the squid and I would prefer the squid. By losing the squid we lose something, at least in terms of art and mood. But I still don't see how Manhattan bombs are illogical, I think plotwise they would have more or less the same effect.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Eh, whatever

    by Dr. Chim Richalds

    If they can reconcile the fact that Manhattan is a member of (allied with?) the U.S. military with the cover story that he is now attacking the world (but is not doing so at the request of the U.S.), it could work. It seems to me that the world would not take kindly to a malfunctioning U.S. weapon that kills millions of people, and that the world might seek to retaliate against the U.S. rather than band together. That's just me, though.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:26 p.m. CST

    please let silk spectre and her mom be naked

    by smudgewhat

    alot. so hot. want to touch the heinie

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:27 p.m. CST

    mode7

    by Geekhaterssuck

    Fight club for movie geeks? That is hilarious. I still personally don't like the childish nature of some of these posts, but oh well to each their own I suppose. Trust me I'm hardly a new user, while I just post very rarely and only on topics that interest me. I do understand the primary function perfectly, and if some choose to use this forum to show their proverbial asses than so be it, does not mean I have to enjoy it. Anyway back on topic whether your "pro-squid" or not I'm sure you'll agree it's best to reserve final judgement until seeing the finished product if you decide to and hope that it's worth the money.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    by D.Vader

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    OMG that clip on Defamer is TERRIBLE

    by drturing

    the new ads had given me some hope... less CG, more practical effects, a more consistent tone. but that scene was cliched, ludicrous, cheesily scored, and just way way over the top. and yes, Akerman sounds like Cameron Diaz auditioning for Fired Up. They needed Charlize Theron and they got Katherine Heigl's annoying younger sister.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Dapper

    by D.Vader

    I dont think anyones saying Russia will attack the US since Doc M was from there. As you say, thats not enough reason to attack. However, it IS enough to reason to continue to distrust, to continue to build up weapons against, etc. The biggest problem is its extremely unlikely the entire world would be united when the threat comes from a product of the US.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:31 p.m. CST

    That clip on Defamer is (extreme hyperbole!!!)

    by D.Vader

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Guy Gaduois

    by Coma Baby

    You are totally right about nuclear war fear in the 80s. It was everywhere. That's one reason I'm glad they stuck to the setting, because the stakes really seemed that high in the 80s - one little thing could set it off. Aside from civil defence drills where kids had to sit with their heads down against walls, nuclear exchange (and aftermath) was talked about or implied in a lot of political rhetoric and was all over the media and films. Even the other seminal comic from the 80s, DKR, featured it prominently. You almost couldn't avoid it. The early 80s were nuts.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Okay, but isn't the plan to stop conflict?

    by Dapper Swindler

    It may not "unite" them in a warm, happy way. But it would get them to stop fighting at least wouldn't it?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Some might agree Dappler, I do not

    by D.Vader

    I don't see it that way. Maybe the movie explains it better, but in my opinion, when countries are so close to pushing the button anyway, seeing cities blow up would prompt them to start sending nukes airborne, in my opinion. <p> And I disagree- I think Ozy WAS trying to unite everyone together in the brotherhood of man. Come on, we all know its true- once aliens show up, all these petty conflicts on Earth will most likely disappear. For a time, anyway. <p> Back to the topic, it may get pple to stop fighting immediately (I think countries would launch nukes), but I think the US and USSR would *still* be apprehensive of one another. We wouldn't have that nice little time like at the end of the GN where fast food joints now serve burgers and borscht.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:46 p.m. CST

    @Geekhatessuck

    by bellwether

    "My idea of poor execution is in the squid itself. I don't know all I can say is the GN was a masterful read for me until that point and all I could think was "The best the supposed super genius could come up with was a giant squid?" It just bugged me personally" Understood. The idea as I read it was that the supposed super genius is revealed a comic book villain, who uses a comic book plot involving a comic book monster. In his world, comic books are pirate horror comics, and he even used a comic book writer to make the squid. That's why the others react with such disbelief, because even they find it absurd: Dan even calls it something like "serial villain crap." It needs to be absurd in order to cut the gordian knot. It's the Big Lie, and the setup is nicely intertwined throughout the story. The replacement ending... well, it's only superficially similar. Hopefully it'll work well enough for a popcorn movie, but it's a shame nonetheless. Hopefully the rest of the movie is fun!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Okay, I agree

    by Dapper Swindler

    But I don't think countries would launch nukes unless they had no idea what was happening. They would have to be irrefutably told by the fake Manhattan first. Also, both sides would have to be targeted. But yeah, it wouldn't make the US and USSR friends the same way aliens would. On the other hand, the shared grief of millions of dead people is an easy way to unite people in friendship.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:52 p.m. CST

    "nothing ends".

    by cloudrider`

    i take it that doc manhattan himself thought that the peace will eventually run its course. you're right, over time, people will see the seams, and ozy's plan whether it be using squid or manhattan can revealed to be fake, and things can always go back to the way it was. <p> but ignoring that notion for now, if we are to unite the world, using the squid is still the more powerful way to do it. it can dissipate tensions and distrusts immediately. if the russia ever think there's a chance manhattan can return to the US care, i dont think they will cooperate with the US. and vice versa. and manhattan holding the world hostage to keep humans from bickering will not carry much weight, since it's been shown that manhattan doesn't care about humans. using manhattan as a method just carry too much baggage. squid is simpler and more effective.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:53 p.m. CST

    That it is, Dapper

    by D.Vader

    "On the other hand, the shared grief of millions of dead people is an easy way to unite people in friendship." <p> Agreed. However, I think the USSR would want to place some of that grief and anger over such a loss at the hands of the US, since they're the ones that "created" Doc M and lorded him over the rest of the world as their secret-super-weapon. That's my main problem with blaming the Doc- its still a US weapon that killed so many pple. Even if it killed Americans too, its still the US's fault.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:55 p.m. CST

    When a director is called visionary in a trailer for

    by jah_kingdom

    his own movie I become concerned. The coming attractions look like they get it right visually; but there seems to be something souless about this movie. That there has been no advance screenings should be cause for concern. I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:55 p.m. CST

    That's a good point

    by Dapper Swindler

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 4:56 p.m. CST

    I'm looking forward to seeing it

    by Broseph

    My mom even wants to go see it.we both loved 300 and i thought zack's remake of dawn of the dead was great so i think this will be a great movie.Jackie Earle Haley has got to be the biggest comeback story of all time.after seeing his amazing performance in little children and the few clips i've seen of him in the trailers i think he's might steal the movie.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Broseph

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Absolutely agree on Haley. I'm stoked that he's playing Rorschach, and I think Rorschach SHOULD steal the show--as Moore's character did (imo) in the original.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Dapper, you're a good guy

    by D.Vader

    Able to debate such a divisive topic without resorting to insults or carrying an elitist attitude. A rarity in TBs these days. I thank you.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Thanks

    by Dapper Swindler

    At least we can try to set an example for other talkbackers.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Right

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Life's ambition - direct a proper Watchmen film with a well rounded cast.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:22 p.m. CST

    The Altered Ending Actually Sounds Better And Makes WAY More Sen

    by LaserPants

    I get what Moore was doing with the giant squid thing (hey, Rod Serling wrote the same damn thing like 20+ years earlier), but this makes WAY more sense narratively, and audiences will relate to it much more. Most importantly, it doesn't alter the theme or intent of the original ending one bit. <br><br> Oh, and I echo the sentiment that I CAN NOT FUCKING WAIT TO SEE THIS MOVIE!!!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:22 p.m. CST

    New Watchmen Clip on MSN

    by misterk360

    Talk about some cheese ball acting. That guy playing Ozy is just the worst. He makes Keanu Reeves look like Lawrence Olivier. This is what you get when you get a director who's only good at making car commercials. http://tinyurl.com/dk4shq

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:23 p.m. CST

    LaserPants

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    How does it make more sense? Just explain that, without bashing the squid.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:24 p.m. CST

    No Squid?

    by skoolbus

    That's fine. I can think of worse changes they could have made.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Psychic Shockwave not just squid

    by awepittance

    one thing people keep forgetting to mention in the TBS in regards to the squid is with the squid dropping in Manhattan alone it wouldnt have set off the chain of events Ozy wanted. The key was the part of the brain from the psychic child reprogrammed and designed to send a FAKE alien psychic shock wave for hundreds of miles making humans instantly have a paranoid delusion about aliens . invading. The shockwave kills most of NY but for the people surrounding who were not killed are now embedded with the belief/delusion that aliens are indeed invading/will continue to invade

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Oh come on

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    He looked terrible when shown in photographs, how was he EVER going to be a well-cast actor?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST

    SO i guess my point

    by awepittance

    is that with Dr Manhattan blowing up cities in the world alone is not enough of a Mcguffen replacement. IF in the original graphic novel it was simply a giant squid falling into new york city and squishing millions of people maybe the Manhattan blasts would be comparable, but with the Manhattan blasts alone there is no implanted delusions about an outside attack which imo is the KEY to why Ozy's plan works so well.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:28 p.m. CST

    if anybody disagrees with this assessment

    by awepittance

    id be curious why :)

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Jesus

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Disregard the above... they ruined Ozy. He's not meant to sound effeminate - the guy's meant to be a larger than life figure.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Re: Zeddemore

    by awepittance

    not to sidetrack the Squid discussion ;-) and i dont disagree that the casting was a terrible choice for Ozy however in the comic there are several overt references to the possibility of Ozy being a closet homosexual. the most obvious ref being when Rorshach is narrating about Viedt

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:34 p.m. CST

    awepittance#

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Yes. References. But sounding effeminate is different. I always got the sense that Ozy was full of life... that he spoke with a majestic voice... that he carried himself like a God. But here, it's like he'd fall over if there was a strong gust of wind. <p> He even looks pale, whereas Ozy in the comic-books looked tanned.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:35 p.m. CST

    Not to mention

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    That a closet homosexual would probably not sound that effeminate. They'd be trying to conceal it, by all estimates.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Rorschach calling Ozy a homosexual

    by Continentalop

    I think that was meant to say more about Rorschach than about Ozy. In fact, there is just as much evidence that maybe Rorschach is a closeted homosexual in denial.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:36 p.m. CST

    true

    by awepittance

    i think its the worst casting of the movie, id have to see the part where he sounds effeminate, i doubt ive seen the exact clip you are referring to

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:39 p.m. CST

    Rorschach thinks Ozy is gay

    by Continentalop

    Because Roraschach is anti-intellectualism and anti-liberal. Ozy believes that you can't fight crime head on, and even retires from being a crimefighter because of the Keane act. By Rorschach b&w logic, if you are as tough as Ozy but refuse to continue to fight, you must be gay.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST

    interesting take continentalop

    by awepittance

    what do you think of the idea of Manhattan bombs replacing squid+psychicshockwave, do you think its suitable? i havent seen anyone address the psychic shockwave aspect as integral to the end result

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:42 p.m. CST

    awepittance

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    It's linked above. MSN, Ozy. <p> I think a case could be made for both. Perhaps that's why Ozy can come out as a superhero, because he's still hiding who he really is. Just like everyone else, even The Comedian who - though he claims to be the only one who gets the joke - shows Silk Spectre some tenderness.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:54 p.m. CST

    I've heard this expressed before...

    by toshiro-solo

    But - does anyone here think that the "no squid" thing really is just marketing/Snyder fucking with us? For the (extremely small) percentage of people who go into this without having already read the GN, having the ending leaked early would truly suck, so - maybe he's keeping the lid on the real ending? It just seems very odd to me that he seems to be sticking so letter perfect in virtually all regards but would then alter the ending in such a way. Really, the time savings of not having to film the island stuff might be a 5 minute thing - maybe 10 on the very outside. It certainly didn't get more than a few pages in the GN. It might also explain the relative lack of advance screenings... I suppose I'd call it highly unlikely, but - I can be a cockeyed optimist, right?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 5:58 p.m. CST

    I guess

    by skoolbus

    what I mean is all that matters is Ozy's intentions, not precisely how he executes them. I suppose the whole psychic squid alien brain shock wave development angle adheres to Ozy's being the smartest man in the world, it's a little, well, just plain awkward.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Actual WATCHMEN excerpts at io9

    by BurnHollywood

    http://tinyurl.com/bjypf5

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Ozy is asexual

    by BurnHollywood

    This is a poorly understood sexual "orientation" that expresses little to no interest in intimacy or relationships with either gender.<p> Note that this pretty much describes Rorschach as well...perhaps his contempt for Ozy is rooted in his own disinterest.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:34 p.m. CST

    How It Makes More Sense

    by LaserPants

    Now I haven't seen the movie, but, from what I can gather from the spoiler, instead of a giant squid (which is never really properly set-up in the book to begin with) Dr. Manhattan (in league with the other Watchmen, but not Rorshach who maintains his beliefs in the fact of certain death) puts on the act / hoax of being an evil other / alien to spook the world into peace. <br><br> So why does it make more sense? More narrative sense? <br><br> Well, it makes more narrative sense because, in the course of the novel, Dr. Manhattan has already been developed as a figure of fear amongst the population -- he's already not trusted; he's just too scary, too powerful, AND he allegedly causes cancer (erroneously; he can't, but the people thinks he can) -- so he splits for Mars to get away from all the irritating humans because he can't deal with them anymore. Ergo, the set-up for him being the "bad guy" is already there -- people already don't trust him, are terrified of him, and he has left the planet to do god knows what. How perfect that he would return with some kind of Martian Death Machine of his making. Of course its an act, but, to the general population it would be readily accepted as fact and proceed from a logical chain of events (in addition to mass paranoia) -- "Dr. Manhattan left the Earth to create his death machines, now he's going to kill us all! Unless, of course, we band together and repel the alien threat with the help of the newly reformed Watchmen!" <br><br> Get it?<br><br> And, why wouldn't he do that? He's almost completely dissociated from the human race anyway; as he says, he has no stake in humanity anymore; he's a god, so petty morality, to him, is kind of a joke. But, he wants to see the world at peace, so putting himself forward as the "bad-guy" is no big deal for him in light of the pay off. Its not like anyone can do anything to him. Playing this role is no big deal because its not like he can ever truly get hurt and, in his mind, the ends justify the means. <br><br> So, narratively, its already set up and makes more sense. I get the whole squid thing, but this is better. Especially because when the squid appears it was like, WTF? Where did this come from? Oh yeah, there were like 5 panels scattered throughout the book that alluded to it. Sorry, but fake "evil" Dr. Manhattan makes way more narrative sense because the logical chain of events has already been set up by the narrative.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Both Ozy And Rorshach Are Gay

    by LaserPants

    Ozy is intellectual liberal gay and Rorshach is raging right wing nutjob gay.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST

    I wonder why the Soviets never bothered

    by successor

    to make their own version of Dr. Manhattan to keep up their end of the superhero arms race. IIRC, it's only mentioned once that the experiment that created the Doc was a one time accident (U.S propaganda perhaps). But you'd think the Soviets would try to steal the technology via spies and sacrifice a willing comrade to make a Dr. Leningrad.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Not really, Laserpants

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    The squid rewards people who're paying attention. Manhattan is like a Magician saying he's going to pull a rabbit out of a hat then doing that - it's a trick that has no meaning because you know how it ends.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:49 p.m. CST

    D.Vader...too late man

    by bacci40

    we coulda taken up this entire tb with the scene...now there is a movie that made some changes to the book, that were mostly positive...except for the billy batts scene

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Uh, No Zeddemore

    by LaserPants

    The squid is a vague contrivance that isn't properly set up to begin with. Its barely even hinted at in the book. There is one page that directly relates to it and even that seems like it was added in at the 11th hour.<br><br>Dr. Manhattan returning to do "evil" (as a hoax with "good" intentions) makes sense because its already been set up, rather strongly, by the narrative! He's set-up as a figure of awe and fear and power. The squid is a lame contrivance (which I think Moore did intentionally, as satire of comics, but its the one bad thing about the book, imho). <br><br>Your allusion to magic makes slim to no sense at all, BUT If the magician you are referring to is "the magic of narrative sense" rather than "the magic of deus ex machina contrivance / jokey reference to Rod Serling", then yeah, its totally magic. The magic of a stronger conclusion to the narrative. <br><br>Ask almost anyone, especially readers who may not be all that familiar with comics, and they'll agree. I've been getting all my non-comic geek friends (mostly girls, but some guys too) to read it, and they've all said the same thing -- its great until the squid shows up; great until the anti-climax of the squid reveal. Now these are people who are intelligent, avid readers of literature, not comic geeks who cling to the source material without any kind of objectivity whatsoever; who fetishize the work rather than look at it with a critical eye. <br><br> I absolutely adore the novel, but the squid is silly and anti-climatic. The "evil" Dr. Manhattan ending makes more sense and is way more narratively satisfying.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Attn: Seattle Geeks

    by Rebeck2

    Screening tonight of OUTLANDER in Seattle with the director Howard McCain talking afterwards and answering questions. It's at 7 pm at the JBL Theater, 325 5th Avenue North - presented in partnership with The Science Fiction Museum and Hall Of Fame. It only costs $5 to get in. The movie is great fun, check it out.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Laserpants

    by Indexical

    'Dr. Manhattan (in league with the other Watchmen, but not Rorshach who maintains his beliefs in the fact of certain death) puts on the act / hoax of being an evil other / alien to spook the world into peace.' Where did this come from? I thought all we knew is that there were some kind of 'Manhattan Bombs'? Really though our arguing is pointless. Mainly because we're discussing the effect of the intended change of ending upon the original graphic novel rather than the movies script, which could have been tweaked so many times as to allow Snyder to finish the story in any way he pleases!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Thanks Rebeck2

    by gavdiggity

    Been meaning to check this out.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:29 p.m. CST

    I think all true geeks should try to restrain

    by InActionMan

    themselves and wait until after opening weekend to see this. The way this is being marketed is as a big action movie with lots o' 'splosions. <P> You will have to contend with a theater full of half wits talking, going to the bathroom and complaining "Why them talkin' so much?" "Taint no action." "That German dude is a fag." "I just saw that blue guys schlong huh, huh, huh." <P> Wait until the second weekend or mid week for your own sanity.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:30 p.m. CST

    No Squid?

    by fiester

    Boo.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:33 p.m. CST

    gavdiggity

    by Rebeck2

    No problem. Let me know what you think when you get back.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:34 p.m. CST

    just watched the clips

    by bacci40

    still pissed that rorshach was filmed as a short guy<p> the slo-mo in the riot scene is useless, and they shouldve stuck with the geek mask for the comedian<p> the fire in the tenement scene is good, but big deal, we all know that snyder can film action scenes(still not sure how laurie keeps her hair from burning)<p> feeling ok with goode as ozy, at least in the civilian scene, but goode is not drop dead gorgeous...ozy should be....do gals really swoon at the guy?<p> i think both jeh and wilson are perfectly cast

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:44 p.m. CST

    The squid is fuh-KING-dis-TRACT-ting!!!!

    by Chuck_Chuckwalla

    We're fucking done, you're so amateur.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 7:44 p.m. CST

    ZOMG!!!111 TEH CLIP IZ T3RR18L3!!!!!!!

    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    She literally says THREE LINES OF RANDOM DIALOGUE!!! Sometimes these TBs are fucking embarrassing.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:12 p.m. CST

    No fuck off that clip has NOTHING to do with the comic

    by drturing

    In the comic the scene is clumsy, nostalgic, paced relaxingly. What does the movie have? Machine guns taking out water towers, slo mo super dives into flames, and speed ramps while dodging fireballs. Everything we feared about how Watchmen would be pillaged for visuals with none of the subtlety or forethought as to what it's about (superheroes being real i.e. what the sopranos did to mobsters). And Matthew Goode's Ozymandias, wtf is up with that accent. I respect Zack Snyder a lot but it looks like he's utterly blown it.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Why the squid isn't in the film:

    by Maxer

    It's pretty simple. I didn't really like it, but the squid is an interesting ending and it gets the job done. However, explaining it on screen would've taken a half an hour. As much as we would like it, the public isn't generally going to go for a 3 hour film. So, they made an ending that achieves the same goal story-wise, and we get that half hour for Rorschach's backstory and Manhattan on Mars (things the studio would've been more than willing to cut to keep the film at 2.5 hours). A fair trade, if you ask me.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:20 p.m. CST

    LaserPants

    by Immortal_Fish

    Sans squid, please explain why Ozy still has to take the Comedian out.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:27 p.m. CST

    No advance screenings? lol.

    by knowthyself

    Their have been a few screenings already with more this week. On Feb 23rd the embargo is lifted with two full weeks of reviews before the movie comes out.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Ozy takes out Comedian...

    by knowthyself

    ..becase COmedian stumbles upon his Island where he's building the Manhattan machine. Duh.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:37 p.m. CST

    WHAT? NO *spoilers* SQUID?? *end spoilers*

    by dr.bulber

    nnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Those people thinking there still might be...

    by DarthCorleone

    ...a squid and that this is some elaborate surprise that the studio is pulling remind me of those people who were convinced it wasn't possible the leaked Deathly Hallows epilogue was real because it was so horrible.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 9:19 p.m. CST

    This movie will be shit! SHIT!!!!

    by TheWaqman

    Have you guys seen the clips? Snyder's stamped it with his trademark slow-mo. And the actors are so fucking underwhelming. Look I'm a big fan of the graphic novel too. But this film will be disappointing and average at best. They should have gotten a much more skilled director for this one. I would have preferred Gilliam's project myself.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 9:23 p.m. CST

    LaserPants....lol

    by TheWaqman

    The guy who disses James Cameron films and hates T2 but can't wait for The Watchmen. You fail so hard man. I can't even take you seriously.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Not long to wait now. But that "review" was pointless.

    by G100

    As has already been noted no new info at all.<p> <p>It's worth pointing out though that one thing that is hammered home in the comic (and ironically enough in the Movie too by the looks of things) is that Manhattan AND Osterman are PASSIVE. He does what people tell him.<p> <p>And therein lies his characters ironic fate as he "gets" astounding powers but doesn't really know what to do with them. He is the opposite of the likes of Ozy and Rorschach who are driven by pure unstoppable (psychotic even) will.<p> <p>Manhattan simply goes with the flow and his ultimate act of rebellion is to run away.<p> <p>The ending cannot be judged purely on "hearing" what Snyder has done as it's execution will be just as crucial.<p> <p>However it's pretty obvious if the original's ending really was as "flawed" as some would like to think it is it then the Comic would simply not be as well regarded as it is. Moores ending worked in the Comic. Simple as that.<p> <p>We don't know if Snyders ending will work in the Movie, YET, but it will have to stand on it's own merits as revisionism about the original ain't gonna cut it.<p> <p>Snyders ending will still have to be incredibly horrific and shocking and strange or it won't work as a shattering catalyst for ending an imminent Holcaust and the focal point of "the plan" that the entire story sets up to uncover.<p> <p>Still, as I said, not long to wait now to see for sure and the comic isn't going anywhere regardless.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Calamari, Anyone?

    by ericinwisconsin

    Get it while it's hot...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Calamari, Anyone?

    by ericinwisconsin

    Get it while it's hot...

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 10:40 p.m. CST

    The only thing I learned from this Talkback...

    by Dominic-Vobiscum

    ...is that it IS indeed possible for me to loathe Jeffrey Wells even more than I already did.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Just saw Carla Gugino in person!

    by oisin5199

    I know it's not a post about the fucking squid. Shocking. Anyway, I just saw her onstage in Chicago in the Goodman Theatre production of Desire Under the Elms (by Eugene O'Neill) with Brian Dennehy. She was fantastic and luminous, and yes , she is that hot and sexy on a stage as she is onscreen. I was actually surprised at what a good physical actor she is, with some parts being almost like dance choreography. But damn, it's a dark show. With some amazing set design. I'll see her in anything. Well, maybe not Race to Witch Mountain.

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Uhhh... bacci40...

    by 11ZOMBIES

    Rorschach was short in the book, why would that piss you off?

  • Feb. 17, 2009, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Yup, I wish they left the squid in but...

    by kirttrik

    ...ugh...no buts, they should of kept the squid in.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 12:03 a.m. CST

    No matter what, you can't polish a turd

    by misterk360

    I just know this film is really going to disappoint. What little bit of acting I've seen look fucking awful and much of the CGI looks shittyl (like that shot of Nightowl's ship rising from the water). Get ready for Howard the Duck 2!

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 12:42 a.m. CST

    G100

    by BruceVain

    Good points, but I have to disagree with this: "However it's pretty obvious if the original's ending really was as 'flawed' as some would like to think it is then the Comic would simply not be as well regarded as it is." So any well-regarded piece of literature is by definition flawless? If that were the case, I can think of a lot of English professors who would have fuck-all to do. What a lot of these squiddites are missing is that it's possible for a work of art to be both brilliant and imperfect. I count Watchmen among them.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Watchmen question

    by Toonol

    In the graphic novel, is it ever stated why Manhattan doesn't simply make Russia's nuclear weapons all disappear? I understand how his presence makes the rest of the world more distrustful of America; I don't understand how his presence doesn't flatly make a nuclear war impossible.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 12:55 a.m. CST

    Re: Watchmen question

    by BruceVain

    Um ... THAT.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 1:02 a.m. CST

    Here we go again...

    by yiannis

    I swear to god I've been reading one long talkback for about the last 12 months. Every time the same damn calamari conversation! Oh well, once more unto the breach, dear friends and all that...<br><br>As far as I'm concerned, both sides are missing the point on this debate. The squid is definitely not an "anti-climax" in the strict sense of the word (pretty hard to get more climactic than a million plus people dying simultaneously!) and I have never found it stupid or distracting in any way. On the other hand, the squid is also NOT as integral to the ending as people make out, simply because such a view, while honestly held, is highly superficial and totally misses the deeper themes of the GN as a whole.<br><br>Ozymandias desires to bring about world peace because he can see how precariously balanced we are as a species on the edge of total destruction. He sets in motion an audacious, complex plan that appears to achieve his aim, but the final act of a madman (Rorsharch delivering his journal) appears to lay bare his plan, wrecking his peace before it has even taken hold. A bleak and horrifying statement that, even if we as a race had the tools to achieve the utopia promised to us by a thousand sci-fi writers and a million religious prophets, someone somewhere would be so set against any change that they would find a way to destroy paradise for the rest of us.<br><br>THAT, to me, is the ending of Watchmen. A deep, thought-provoking and challenging philosophical statement about the very nature of humanity as a species.<br><br>How, exactly, is a pretend intergalactic bit of seafood crucial to conveying this message? Yes, the squid is the TOOL that Ozymandias uses to carry out his plan, but that's ALL it is, ALL it was, ALL it will ever be. A prop. A macguffin. A plot device.<br><br>Yes, I get that it serves a double purpose of mirroring giant intergalactic beasties throughout comic history (or so I'm told, anyway), but if you seriously rate that higher than the underlying themes and ideas of the very GN you claim to love and defend so vociferously, then you are a walking illustration of why "geek" is still used as an insult.<br><br>If you do look on the squid as just a tool, then no matter how much you may LIKE it, the reasons we have been given for the change DO make sense. The story of Watchmen is so complex that in its original comic format it took a full YEAR to tell despite every frame on every page being loaded with crucial details. Even then, Moore and Gibbons had to make use of Tolkien-esque supplementary materials at the end of each issue in order to fill in important backstory and history that simply could not be worked into the main story. Snyder had one movie, a single film, to tell the same story and has been forced to effectively cheat by releasing TWO supplementary films (Black Freighter and Under the Hood), as well as keeping material back for a longer, DVD director's cut just so that it could be a reasonable length (face it, even the most devoted GN fan would NOT watch a 4+ hour movie in the cinema - DVD yes, but not the cinema).<br><br>Within those limitations, it should be obvious that literally every second counts, so why in the blue hell would ANY filmmaker want to spend precious time explaining the TOOL Ozymandias uses to carry out his plan? Furthermore, since the only place you can actually explain the squid is during Veidt's grand unveiling of the plan itself, what sort of irresponsible filmmaker would take time needed to explain the ENTIRE POINT OF THE FILM and use it instead to describe a PLOT DEVICE?<br><br>By making Doc M the tool instead of the squid, that problem disappears instantly, as Doc M HAS been explained already in the film, over and over again. Yes, it's not what was originally written and I for one will reserve judgement on how WELL it works until I've seen the movie, but it does, in theory, work.<br><br>For those that think "it's only a couple of scenes in the GN to set up the squid", yes technically it is, but you're forgetting the key difference between any written medium versus cinema, in that when reading a book or comic EACH member of the audience is able to go at their own pace, go back, re-read sections and pause to allow for better understanding. A film only ever has one pace and EVERYONE needs to be able to follow it at that pace. If you need to pause the entire flow of the film in order to explain something, then it had better be crucial to the film. Not in a superficial, visual way, but in terms of the underlying themes and emotional force driving the story. <br><br>The filmmakers clearly did not think that was the case with the squid and I am inclined to agree with them. I don't dislike the squid, much less hate it. I think the visual imagery in that final chapter is incredible and in no way find it distracting. However, even as a well-read, well-educated and intelligent person, I still had to go back and re-read that moment the first time I picked Watchmen up to get what they were saying and EVEN THEN it still took til my third read for the full scale of what the squid symbolises to truly sink in. That is a luxury that simply CANNOT be afforded to any film, adaptation or original, unless you are a filmmaker in the David Lynch/Jim Jarmusch mould who is willing to work on a shoestring budget - and even a with-squid Watchmen would be a disaster if it was made on the cheap (good effects don't make a film, but bad effects can sure as hell break one!).<br><br>For any pro-squid peeps out there who still disagree with me, I say fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Just do me one favour though: stop blaming Snyder! The squid was ALREADY out of the script long before Snyder came on board (the Greengrass version would also have lacked the squid, for anyone who thinks it wouldn't) and Snyder has fought like a bastard to put back a whole mountain of other stuff that would otherwise have been cut or changed (John on Mars, Under the Hood, Black Freighter and Rorsharch's journal at the end to name just four, as well as numerous lines of dialogue cut in the original script that I have since heard in trailers - "... and I'll whisper no" for one!). Therefore the squid was EITHER a battle he fought but was unable to win, OR a battle he never fought in the first place because he agrees with the decision to remove it. Either way, though, the decision to remove it in the first place was not his. Lloyd Levin (producer), David Heyter, Alex Tse (screenwriters) and Warner Brothers as a company should all be subjects of your misdirected ire long before you get to Snyder. Snyder may still have a way to go to prove himself, but proof one way or the other will only come from actually watching the movie and forming an honest opinion about it. Until then, give the guy a break, ok?<br><br>For anyone else that STILL wants to bitch and moan about a film they HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN YET, all I'll say is "Sam Hamm Watchmen Script". Google it. Read it. Realise how close that was to becoming reality. Rejoice for what we do have, rather than what we don't.<br><br>P.S. <br><br>I'm with countless others before me, by the way, in calling bullshit on this review. I already knew every last bit of information contained there, because it's all publically available. Even the "opinion" bits of it were very wishy-washy. Nothing suggests to me that he has actually SEEN the film.<br><br>P.P.S. <br><br>Shout out to Le Vicious Fishus and G100 and apologies to Fishus for missing his shout out to me in a previous talkback, as it was already dead by the time I came back to it.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 1:44 a.m. CST

    AW SHIT (anal retentive conitiption alert)

    by blindambition238

    I just watched that Watchmen clip of the scene between Dan and Rorschach where they are in the Owlship, and saw that they sorta messed with my favorite scene in the graphic novel. <p> It was the scene Rorschach insults Dan, then Dan blows up at him and calls him out for being an ass. <p> Except he doesn't utter the phrase that made the entire scene for me: the remark he tacks on the end of his rant at Rorschach: 'You have no idea how hard is to be your friend!' <p> Instead he ends it just before that, and Rorschach simply apologizes. No awkward silence. No shock face on Rorschach mask. or that sudden, brief, and singular moment of lucidity and genuine emotion from him. <p> I still think this movie has a chance of being pretty great, but pretty disappointed that part was abridged since it was my absolute favorite part in the GN. Oh well, I know thats wierd, but ce la vie. <p> End Rant.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 3:25 a.m. CST

    11ZOMBIES....he wore lifts

    by bacci40

    while not as tall as the other masks, as rorshach, he was avg height...as kovacs he is 5'5"...there is a difference

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 3:28 a.m. CST

    Screw the squid, Snyder can't get the fire rescue right

    by WickedJacob

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 4:27 a.m. CST

    AS flawed doesn't mean it's flawless

    by G100

    Watchmen has it's own share of faults no doubt and I personally enjoy some sections of the narrative more than other bits myself. But overall the good in Watchmen far, FAR outweighs the bad, and it is so very well regarded for that reason.<p> <p>I just mean that the degree of criticism being thrown at the originals ending has to be seen for what it is. Primarily a response to Snyder changing the originals ending and not something that has always been said of the original comic since it was published all those years ago.<p> <p>Sure, there might have been a few who may have had their own personal doubts about the originals ending for many, many, years, but the idea that the original was ALWAYS UNIVERSALY regarded as having a "problematic" ending is simply not the case.<p> <p>There's a reason why Snyder and others have brought the word "unfilmable" to the table instead of just trashing the original and hoping for the best. (though it's far more accurate to say that SNYDER doesn't think HE can make it work in the Movie.) He has his reasons for not attempting the original and they don't all completely lack merit in the context of a Hollywood blockbuster BUT the decision is HIS. It would be far better to say the scene would be extraordinarily DIFFICULT rather than simply unfilmable.<p> <p>After all, a 50 foot high naked glowing Blue man with godlike powers is happily rendered without much or indeed any of the "ridicule" and opprobrium that "squiddy" (an extradimensional genetically engineered construct) recieves.<p> <p>And blindambition238, I too rate that as one of the great scenes in the comic and would be disappointed if it HAS been fucked with. But Rorschachs "fridge" scene ALSO appears to have been inexplicably fucked with sadly to it's great detriment. (from what I saw of the preview footage anyway) Small things yes, but they might all add up infortunately.<p> <p>Still it IS mostly guesswork at this stage and nothing really definitive can or should be said until watching the completed Movie.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 4:54 a.m. CST

    Seen it, Loved it

    by RobFromBackEast

    Fucking beyond violent, and very smartly adapted. The ending works well, as the squid, quite frankly, would've looked fucking stupid on screen. Synder really has put his money where his mouth is here. It took balls to stick that close to the source material. He should be commended for that

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 5:13 a.m. CST

    Doesn't sound promising

    by zapano

    shit review, this guy has definitely chosen his words very carefully. just because its faithful doesn't mean its any good. also won't be disappointed is not what i'm looking for when i go to the cinema. the lack of previews doesn't inspire confidence either. i have a feeling this film is going to divide people

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 7:14 a.m. CST

    Judging it from bits n parts..

    by knowthyself

    ..is beyond ignorant.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 7:37 a.m. CST

    movie is going to rock, what don't you fucking understand!?

    by turketron

    srsly u guys. u guys, srsly.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 7:49 a.m. CST

    what is the point of doc manhattan in comic?

    by crazybubba

    why is he even there?

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Galactus used an engergy maching in Manhattan

    by Diagnostic

    Will we finally see him?

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 8:49 a.m. CST

    where's that watchmen clip?

    by Righteous Brother

    In the Owlship between Dan and Rorschach?

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Dr. Manhattan Power Energy Drink...

    by dihay

    It really gives you that fresh, healthy GLOW!

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:18 a.m. CST

    The Last Dragon Energy Drink...

    by turketron

    It also gives you the GLOW!!! Who's the master? You are!

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Intergalatic Being = Human Peace (SPOILER)

    by DocMHumphrey

    Spoiler<br><br> Funny, the point of the "Squid" Intergalatic being was to turn the aim of hostility of the human race from each other and unite it against the belief of an alien threat. Ozymandias actually explains that in his monologue before they even show the damn thing.<br> How is this so unfilmable?<br><br>Why do people think this is an unreachable concept?<br><br>Wow...even young children grasped the concept when "The Incredibles" ganked it from Watchmen.<br><br>Using Dr. Manhattan as the means to the end would point all the hate and anger to him and he fucking symbolizes the US's power over the Soviets....so logically wouldn't everyone be pissed at John?<br><Br>Ozy's whole point is a symbolic reference. It's not about a human means to an end. He references all of history to show how MANKIND has FAILED in that aspect.<br><br>Alexander the Great = Failed because of human nature<br><br>US Dropping Nukes in WWII = Failed because it raised the moral question in which Rorshach is the key. In Rorshach's pysch evaluation it shows his essay about the nukes going off in Japan. He believes this to be a good thing because it ends the war, thus saving millions of lives. The good of the many out weighs the good of the few. In the end, Rorshach does a 180 when actually faced with the same situation. He totally believes that what happened is horribly wrong. Which in the case of the reader is supposed to reflect our own history on this matter...hence Snyder's "Blade Runner of today reference".<br><Br>My point is, not having the squid, demeans the entire point of the book. Ozy had to have something so big and unexpected, that it would disturb the leaders of the world into unity. Having anything remotely involved with Manhattan, someone who is already hated by the Soviets and mistrusted by Americans by his more recent actions in the GN, would put us right back into the same logic as the Alexander the Great and the US. It undermines Rorshach's journal being read at the end. Why would it need to be there other than to point the finger an Veidt? He views himself as a hero for what he has done...he views the group in general as heros. He didn't want to kill the Comedian, but had to make an alien invasion work. Manhattan's killing of Rorshach teaters on the fact that people couldn't know that the wasn't alien. If not...the entire novel falls apart.<br><br>The Squid matters...

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:28 a.m. CST

    Watchmen + IMAX + Mushrooms =

    by krull rules

    A fuckin' good time... 3/6/09...

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST

    Re: crazybubba

    by ricarleite

    Pretty much why every other character except Rorscharch and Ozymandias is there, to provide a good story. There's really no point in Doc Manhattan and he doesn't advance the story at all, if we think about it. OK he gets angry at a TV show, goes to Mars, knows about everything except what goes on on Ozymandias playhouse, he goes back just for the kicks of showing his ex-girlfriend Mars a bit and saying her life sucks, and comes back in time to see the squid. His porpouse is just to justify the technology we see, and to kill you know who in a dramatic, shocking way (no other character could kill him, not even Ozy).

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:36 a.m. CST

    knowthyself

    by yiannis

    Very wise statement sir. <br><br>Unfortunately it's highly likely to fall on deaf ears. It seems to be the inate right of the "fanboy" to form judgement in advance. I get into enough trouble just trying to rationalise...

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Also....

    by DocMHumphrey

    The scenes in the novel about the squid...the crazy island stuff...build up suspense and mystery...it added that other layer and the payoff was awesome...all the talk about human brains and a pyschic was crazy.<br><br>The payoff was worth the crazy. The shock of it was awesome...using Manhattan is weak. It misses the point of detaching the blame from any of the costumed heroes...which are already hated.<br><Br>Blaming Manhattan not only undermines the concept of Ozy being the smartest man in the world by causing a global mass-murder scene and blaming it on someone who he is associated with...real smart.<br><bR>To cause a global mass-murder on a being from another dimension that cannot possibly by linked to any human being (except through Rorshach and his journal...) is an ingenius "plot device".

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Re: DocMHumphrey

    by ricarleite

    You're forgetting who will see this movie. It's your mom. Your dad. Rednecks. Mall-going white trash. Stupid people who work at Wal-Mart. People whom this subtext would fly right past their tiny brains. They want to see neat superheroes, explosions and sex. The squid was cut because THE AUDIENCE IS TOO FUCKING STUPID TO GET IT. There's no other explanation. The producers will never say it out loud, but we all know it.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:49 a.m. CST

    My arguement or I guess opinion

    by Geekhaterssuck

    is that the idea Ozy had or I guess Moore had was brillant and I must admit if it is Manhattan in place of the squid that is a bit weak, but just on a personal level I saw that damn squid and I though "ugh." I guess for me the GN was unique and special until that moment because a giant monster from space or another dimension or wherever is just so cliche to me, and to make it a giant squid? I don't know just didn't thrill me. Maybe the problem is I didn't read the novel until 2008 and the thing was written so many years ago. Maybe a "giant squid" fit better back then. It didn't ruin the whole thing for me still one of the best reads I've ever experienced I just didn't care for the execution of the idea.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 10:02 a.m. CST

    BULL FUCKING

    by Chadley BeBay

    ...Shit. I am so fucking pissed that they changed the ending, and this review echoes my aprehension perfectly.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 10:03 a.m. CST

    If you think the squid is extraneous/stupid then...

    by Darth Macchio

    ...you do not understand the human condition as least as well as Alan Moore does.<p>There, I said it! This "squid is stupid" notion isn't opinion.<p>At the risk of sounding like an asshole movie snob, you really are missing the entire point if you actually think the squid was "a stupid ending to a great graphic novel". I'm not saying people who don't think the squid is stupid are smarter or better blah blah...but your opinion is likely getting in the way of you understanding the purpose of the literary device used with respect to the squid.<p>That said, reference any of the Watchmen talkbacks to see this and everything else about it repeated for-fucking-ever.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Thoughts...

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Yo, G100 and Yiannis! How be it? Always good to read thoughtful posts.<BR><BR>I’m ok with the Squid being replaced and have been ok with that for many months. Any faked, non-anthropomorphic-alien -threat to earth would do. I AM unhappy with the Doc Manhattan-squid-proxy-solution, however, for reasons which have been repeated ad nauseum here and on other TBs. Manhattan/Jon Osterman is undeniably American (“God exists, and he’s American”). No one outside of our country would ever forget that, and America—regardless of whether it was attacked—would be blamed for his actions, just as we would be blamed if two US nuclear missiles were launched due to a malfunction and wiped out Siberia. Jon looks human—a constant reminder that he is one of us. Some of us—including me—just can’t get around that flawed logic. <BR><BR>And, just as a side note: the reason the “5th dimensional cephalopod” worked was partially because it WAS absurd and cliché in the context of a comic. As a Lovecraft fan, I was absolutely in love with the out of left field insanity of Viedt’s plan, and personally I the “squid” horrific to the nth degree. I understand others may legitimately disagree with me.<BR><BR>Again—though—I don’t disagree with the original climax being changed as long as the original intention of Viedt’s plan was respected. You may love or hate the squid, but Veidt’s original plan WOULD hypothetically bring the world together for a time. The American tool/weapon called Doc Manhattan going rogue—imo—would not. I am going into the movie with an open-mind, though, and I’ll be the first to admit if I’m wrong about the altered climax. As Yiannis has pointed out correctly, the film adaptation could be MUCH worse plot and character-wise (google original Hayter or especially the intolerable Hamm WATCHMEN screenplay).<BR><BR>Other than the climax-change, the look and feel seems terrific. Like others, I was underwhelmed by the fire rescue scene and have reservations about the (judging from clips we’ve seen) wooden actress playing SS. I actually was surprised that I liked the non-canonical scene between Nite Owl and Ozy. Even though Goode LOOKS terrible (and SCRAWNY) as Veidt, I think at least he’s a competent actor. <BR><BR>And I fully expect Haley’s Rorschach to steal the movie, as he should.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Give Synder Credit

    by RobFromBackEast

    The squid is merely a tool to convey a point, and that point is conveyed regardless with the (slightly) newer ending. This is a fucking ballsy production, and one that will stand up to repeat viewings because of the layered subtext oozing from its narrative, and the fucking brilliantly handled action. This is an excellent film - pure and simple. Stop your fucking bitching and whining and wait until you see the fucker before passing judgement. Snyder really stayed true to the source material here, and that can't of been easy with a major studio. Give the fucking man some credit.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 11:17 a.m. CST

    "it's extremely faithful to the graphic novel"

    by maddox

    Cleavers are embeddded in heads, legs snapped in two, arms sawn off with circular saws.<p>I must need to read the novel again. I don't remember any of those things happening. This sounds like a slasher flick.<p>And how is the ending supposed to uinte the human race? An alien invasion was a great idea for that purpose. I wish it hadn't been changed.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Yo Fishus!

    by yiannis

    Things are pretty good, thanks. How about you?<br><br>The more I see of Watchmen (including those clips on the other node) the more I think I'm going to enjoy this regardless. I don't believe it will be a perfect film, nor do I believe it will be a perfect adaptation and I have no doubt that there will be moments when I go "I wish they'd stuck to the GN for that bit", especially during the smaller, quieter moments. However, I am not going into this as a fan of the GN, but as a fan of movies and fully intend to judge it as a movie in its own right. In that sense, my excitement is ever growing.<br><br>Even then, I think this will be a little bit like the LOTR movies, in that the eventual extended cut will be the definitive version and any final, lasting judgement I may have will be delayed until then.<br><br>Either way, though, not long now. tick tock, tick tock...

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 1:37 p.m. CST

    RobFromBackEast: "Are you talkin' to ME?"

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    No, really. Are you? Because I'm giving the filmmaker the benefit of the doubt here, and I don't dispute that replacing the squid with a proxy is legitimate. What I DO disagree with is the faked-Doc-Manhattan-energy-bomb attacks. Just doesn't work for me, and it doesn't make the same point that the squid does imo (for reasons listed extensively elsewhere).<BR><BR>That stated, I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong.<BR><BR>And--yeah--I'm excited about this film, regardless of that one big change. Rob, I assume you've seen the film already. Care to share some more detailed goodness with us?

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Yiannis

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    I'm doing pretty well. My wife is nine weeks pregnant (for the first time), and it's been a bumpy, sometimes scary ride. Will be glad when first trimester is over.<BR><BR>Yeah, I'm with you regarding WATCHMEN. Actually, LOTR works perfectly for comparison reasons. I still dispute Jackson & Co's removal of the SCOURING OF THE SHIRE for multiple reasons (not the least because the whole point about the dreadful price of war is lost there, and to me it's what ultimately elevates the story to a master work). BUT, despite my misgivings about that (and--let's face it--a couple of handfuls of screw ups and perplexing additions), I really liked the LOTR movies (and damn near love the FOTR film). Jackson got more right than he got wrong throughout the movie trilogy. I'm hoping the same can be said of WATCHMEN.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Final thoughts on the squid.

    by mode_7

    Can someone explain to me reasonably WHY the squid wouldn't work? I'm just not convinced by any single point anyone has made. The points people seem to be making are:<p>1) That it'd look silly on screen. and 2) that it'd require too much time to set up. <p>Point one I simply don't understand, get a decent production designer and that thing could look like a fucking lovecraftian nightmare. How can a giant rotting alien corpse not look cool? There is no reason it should look EXACTLY like it's comic book counterpart. It could look like pretty much anything as long as it was alien. The second point I also call bullshit on since the thing is barely set up in the comic. That's almost the fucking point, it's gotta come completely out of the blue and make you not believe what you're seeing. That's what it's all about. All that's required is a few quick cuts to the island where we see it being designed. It doesn't need to be explained at that point, it'd take about 10 fucking minutes of screentime, at the most.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 2:03 p.m. CST

    "...someone new to Watchmen will see the movie..."

    by ArcadianDS

    "and say 'where's the f**king cool squid?' and become the next Jackman..."<p> Uh dude, a little dose of reality here: In the past 22 years, no single person in all of mankind, has read The Watchmen and thought, "wow that squid was f**king cool!!" - every single one of them, from the first to the last, thought to themselves, "wow - that was a little uhm..... weird." And like that one burnt popcorn in a tub of otherwise delicious buttery kernels, they winced as they swalloed it, and pressed on with the hope that the remainder of the popcorn wouldn't be tainted by that acrid burnt carpet aftertaste.<p> Thats what the squid is - its the burnt popcorn that taints the whole bottom half of your bucket. Its that one rotten pistachio that tastes like poop-smell, but you keep eating them in the hope that the entirety of the pistachios will be delicious despite that one poop-smell flavored rotten one.<p> Those who refuse to admit this are the kind of people who throw themselves with passionate abadon at something new, only to later learn that its not really cool - and the only way to avoid looking like a total douche is to insist that this whatever-it-be is SO cool, that nobody else has the brainmatter to even COMPREHEND how cool it is. "You just dont get it man. I feel for you." and off they go, nose in the air, comics under arm, and poop-smell taste of rotten pistachio in their mouth.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Arcadian

    by mode_7

    You just dont get it man. I feel for you.

  • Because as we all know it's impossible for something to be both weird and cool at the same time.<p> <p>Hello Fishus and Yiannis. Good to see there are still people willing to judge the MOVIE when they see it and are not hopelessly hidebound by kneejerk partisan hatred of the subject matter, the original author or the great squid debate.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Hey, G100... Mode7... And, um, ArcadianDS.

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Man, Arcadian. Been a long time, bro.<BR><BR>And for the record, you're wrong, imo. Way back when I was a Freshman in college (1989) upon first reading WATCHMEN, I thought the horrific appearance of this unexpected, faked, Lovecraftian alien was one of the coolest things (and ideas) I'd ever witnessed in graphic form. I still do today. It is, to me, the very quintessence of coolness. Couldn't be any cooler, bud.<BR><BR>And--sure, mode7--if I had been writing the screenplay, I'd sure as hell keep the squid. That stated, I don't fault Snyder & Co for cutting it (the squid doth not please everyone clearly), but I do wish the squid had been substituted with something a bit less logically troublesome (and visually more creative).<BR><BR>Once again--we'll see whether the film itself will prove me wrong. May it be so.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Give Snyder credit? For what??

    by TheWaqman

    Adding his token slow-mo scenes to the film and hiring underwhelming actors? For making Ozymandias look like a Schumacher villain? Seriously, I bet everybody that watches this that hasn't read the graphic novel/comic will automatically guess that Ozy's the villain.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai

    by Semen Stains

    I couldnt really give a shit whats to be said about the movie on this talkback,im just here to read Cobra-Kai's awesome posts,you sir brighten my day.

  • Feb. 18, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Congratulations Fishus!

    by yiannis

    Hope everything goes well with the wife and little fish. Not a family man myself, but many of my friends and relatives are and one of my life's greatest joys is doting on my little nephews and neices. Best of luck!<br><br>I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of the Scouring of the Shire comparison in this whole seafood debate. That was a FAR more controversial change than the removal of the squid, as Tolkien himself stated explicitly in the LOTR foreword that it was, to him, the MOST IMPORTANT SCENE IN THE WHOLE STORY! Yet Jackson removed it based on a strong, compelling reason and, in my opinion, the film was BETTER for not having it, as it gave the ending of the film (I view the whole thing as one film, btw, so not just talking about ROTK here) a better flow and cadence. <br><br>I'm not saying that Watchmen will be a better movie for not having the squid, but that's only because I haven't seen it yet. It's just a decent comparison that even the most dramatic change CAN be for the better if it is a) done for the right reasons and b) done well. I think the squid removal HAS been done for the right reason, so only time will tell how well the change has been made.<br><br>I do think it will be quite easy to over-analyse the changes, though, and it's a trap that even so-called "reasonable" people like you, me and G100 must be conscious to avoid. Dig deep enough into anything and you will always find fault, so anyone wanting or expecting to find problems in the new ending will be able to, I'm sure. I just hope there's enough people out there willing to set aside the GN and give the film an honest reaction - based on how they FEEL, not THINK - that the inevitable backlash from people who've already formed their opinions can be at least tempered, if not avoided entirely.

  • Feb. 19, 2009, 12:59 a.m. CST

    See!!! The Squid would've worked

    by Russman

    fuckheads

  • Feb. 19, 2009, 1:06 a.m. CST

    ArcadianDS - gotta disagree with ya..

    by Russman

    It was cool. You just didn't get it. The only thing that will ever unite all humans is the threat of human extinction. National pride goes out the window, religion goes out the window, race goes out the window, - everything goes out the window the only thing that matters is survival. That's what Ozzie did in the book and things started to change because now there was a threat that was going to kill everyone no matter what kind of -ism they believed in. Think about it man.

  • Feb. 19, 2009, 10:54 a.m. CST

    those clips remind me of MYSTERY MEN

    by compn

    anyone remember that movie? now that i think about it, ozy looks exactly like captian amazing / greg kinnear.

  • Feb. 19, 2009, 2:17 p.m. CST

    is goode gorgeous enough?

    by lyleblake82000

    Somewhere up above, someone wrote, "feeling ok with goode as ozy, at least in the civilian scene, but goode is not drop dead gorgeous...ozy should be....do gals really swoon at the guy?" Can't speak for the ladies, but as one of the gay guys here (yes, we are everywhere), I feel he is reasonably attractive but not enough to turn heads or stop traffic. He'd have to take a backseat in the looks department to, say, Jared Padalecki or even Brandon Routh, just to grab two names off the top of my head.

  • Feb. 19, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Can't please 'em all...not even part of the time!

    by wacko3205

    You know...it was a wise hooker who often said that you can't please 'em all...not even part of the time...& she was on her knees I'm sure during the better part of her speech. I really feel for ole' Zack...he's taken some of the most glorious material...material that "supposedly could'nt be formatted to the screen" & planted asses in seats to be picked apart by lesser demons. Personally...I can't wait for this...just liked "300" (which I am not ashamed to ad that I enjoyed) & Sin City (via Robert Rod.). Now I aint gonna go on & on about this...I've got about as much invested in Snyder as I will the cost of the novel & the cost of a ticket to see this film...which I will see multiple times. It's all what you take with you & personally...I see no way that it can be butchered to the effect that many posters are hiking their skirts up to show their bushes over. Poh-F-N-Leeze ladies & laddies...it's art anyway you slice it...no matter what you have invested in it...& I assure you it'll be the better part of a $20 bill you spend on opening weekend...if it's that bad...take the leftover $10 spot...go to the bar...by yersef a few shots & take on that motto of the wise hooker just previously discussed. It aint all bad. Give us a chance before it hits.

  • Feb. 19, 2009, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Can't please 'em all...part of the time too...

    by wacko3205

    Forgot to mention...yes it is a movie based on one of our most affectionate of materials...but it's being made by someone with passion for the experience...& in the end...that's what the ticket to a movie is made for...entertainment & the experience. Again I say...let's give it a shot before shooting it down.

  • Feb. 20, 2009, 12:30 a.m. CST

    @ Miguel De Barioz

    by onemanarmy

    What the fuck are you talking about? Are you on mescaline or something? I seriously couldn't read another TB comment after that re-fucking-diculous "Bob Dyaln" story.

  • Feb. 20, 2009, 4:20 a.m. CST

    Pewp smell pistachio...

    by onemanarmy

    ...for the win.

  • Feb. 20, 2009, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Forget the friggin' squid already...

    by Kid Z

    ...how about the horrifically bad reviews that are popping up all over teh internets? You know, the ones entitled "Shocking Failure" and "That Whooshing Sound" and describing Snyder as a less-talented cross between McG and Michael Bay? Also what about the fact that there's a press balckout until the day of the release? Never a good sign, that.

  • Feb. 21, 2009, 7:08 p.m. CST

    I saw the movie and...

    by kK stoned

    I don't want to say too much, but I'll throw out some thoughts on the film: 1) This movie, I think, needed to be longer. I'm very eager to see Zack Snyder's 3 hour cut, because I feel that version will be WATCHMEN. The 2 and half hour cut is fine, but I felt like there needed to be...more. It felt slightly rushed. 2)I thought Carla Gugino as an older Sally Jupiter was pretty bad. 3) This movie has the most awesome sex scene ever. I'm still deciding if it was necessary (it's VERY steamy) but I can see why Snyder filmed it like that. 4) Jackie Earle Haley is fucking Rorschach. 5) The movie does look awesome. There are many shots lifted from panels from the book, and they are amazing. The first 20 minutes are incredible. 6) The beginning scene with the Comedian getting the crap kicked out of him with the song "Unforgettable" played in the background is BEAUTIFUL. I almost cried. It was pure cinema ecstasy. 7) Because the ending is changed, Bubastis's presence in the film is very random. I don't know if they'll explain his existence in the director's cut or not, but in this version he just simply appears near the end of the film with Ozymandias. Ever since I saw the film, I've been thinking about it everyday, deciding if it's WATCHMEN and if I like it. I do like the film, but I do remember walking out the theater disappointed when I watched it. But, now I realize that I really need to watch it again to have a final judgment. Even if you've read the book, it's a LOT to take in in one viewing (with the changes and all) so I definitely will see it many more times to see if it's a masterpiece or not.

  • Feb. 21, 2009, 7:19 p.m. CST

    ANd you know what....

    by kK stoned

    This is so bizarre, but I was scouring youtube for clips from the film (I REALLY want to watch it again) and I watched the scene with Carla Gugino as Sally Jupiter in her later years, and...I didn't think she was bad. As I keep looking back on the film and thinking about it, it really is growing on me.

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