Ain't It Cool News (www.aintitcool.com)
Movie News

Dr Manhattan & Others chime in on WATCHMEN Footage from NYCC!

Hey folks, Harry here... Seems they showed the exact same block of footage we got at BNAT 10, and dear god was that cool. Here's a rundown of the footage and how it made these two go all heart irises and floaty huggy love...

Hey Harry, I don't think anyone's reported this yet on the site but earlier today I caught the first 18 minutes of Watchmen along with another 20-30 sec. clip from a later scene at the NYC Comic Con. First let me clarify that I'm currently reading the graphic novel for the first time and am towards the end. The last I left off in my reading Rorshach and Nite Owl are on their way to Antarctic. So I haven't had this story built up in my mind for many years like others and I have no opinion whatsoever about The Squid, though the panel again confirmed that The Squid is not in the movie or in deleted material but said they used another "MacGuffin." Anyway, the footage I've seen is AWESOME. I'm sure the diehard fans will find some trivial details to complain about but I don't know what there is to complain about. The film starts with a yellow Warner Brothers logo that somehow (I forget) transitions into the yellow of Blake's smiley face pin. Blake’s watching television and Snyder takes us inside Blake’s TV as he watches a political news show. The panel is discussing some speech President Nixon gave and we see a quick clip Nixon speaking. The show’s panel discusses the doomsday clock and they disagree over whether Dr. Manhattan’s presence is helping matters or pushing us closer to nuclear annihilation. As Blake starts flipping channels we see below the door the shadow of two feet. Suddenly the door is busted down with a figure in black on the other side as Blake says, “Just a matter of time, I suppose” as we see in the trailer. A several minute fight sequence follows where Blake does really well but where it’s clear that he’s met his match. After he gets his ass kicked, a drop of blood falls onto the smiley face pin as he’s resigned himself to his fate. His opponent picks him up and tosses him out the window. He falls in slow motion with the smiley face pin right behind him and then both hit the ground. There’s another transition involving the smiley face pin that takes us into the main titles sequence. As the titles play to Dylan’s original version of “The Times They Are A-Changing,” we’re treated to a lengthy sequence chronically the back story to Watchman-verse. Moments that stand out are The Minutemen posing for the famous group photo, an alternative version of the classic V-Day photo moment in Time Square where it’s Silhouette kissing the girl instead of the sailor, Mothman being carried away by men in white coats, photographers shooting Dollar Bill’s dead body in the revolving door, young Rorshach watching as his mother shows out another customer, an altered archival shot of Kennedy shaking hands with Dr. Manhattan, Kennedy being shot in Dallas by The Comedian behind the grassy knoll, shots of the various superhero gatherings, and Nixon coming to power. The last shot of the titles sequence is the shot from the first trailer of protesters against the vigilantes and the explosion that consumes the screen. The titles end and now the detectives investigate Blake’s apartment. They see he was in great shape and that the window was particularly strong suggesting he may have been thrown out. They then find a photo of him with the president. They wonder if he was a spook. The camera then zooms out through the window and across the city. We somehow get to Rorshach down below discovering the smiley face pin and we hear Rorshach’s journal as he uses a Batman-like grappling hook gadget to quickly shoot up to the broken window and enters as he says the line from the trailer that is almost identical to the line in the book about politicians and everyone will call on him to save them and he’ll whisper, no. Rorshach investigates the place and quickly finds photos of The Comedian with Sally and other clues that lead him to Blake’s closet. He finds a hollow back and finds The Comedian’s old mementoes. Somewhere around this point the scene ends as do the first 18 minutes. Then to get a great audience reaction, we got an extra 20-30 second clip from later in the film. It’s the prison cafeteria scene. Rorshach is attacked and he throws the boiling hot water at the guy’s face. And as several guys try to hold him down, Rorshach says the classic line. I forget the exact words but it’s the “It’s not me that’s stuck in here with you! It’s you who’s stuck in here with me!” And that ends the footage we were shown. The actor they got playing Rorshach looks just like he looks in the book. Perfect casting. I have to say that I was blown away by the footage. So far from what I’ve seen they’ve captured every detail from the book and have only added a few things that you could almost swear was in the book like the Silhouette V-Day kiss in Time Square or The Comedian’s assassination of Kennedy, which as I’ve just read seems to be only jokingly referenced in the book. My one concern is the length, at least in terms of what general audiences will put up with. After 18 minutes, we were only 3 scenes into the story plus a title sequence. Though to be fair, since they encapsulated so many moments of the history in the title sequence and get it over with early, they probably save a lot of time once the story gets going. Then there’s all the supplementary material. I know content was made specifically for the DVD that won’t be in the film, or at least the theatrical version of the film, but I imagine some of the comic book with the comic book stuff is going to make it into film. I’ll be very interested to see how that gets incorporated. So in conclusion, I am looking forward to the film even more now. If you use this, call me Dr. Manhattan.

then there's this from AntoniusFunk...

Hey Harry! I have been attending the NYC comic con for the last couple of days and this morning was treated to an excellent panel on Watchmen/Friday the 13th/Terminator Salvation. While all three movies had cool things to show (all of them unseen before) the watchmen part of the panel was far outshining everything else. They showed us a clip of the first 18 minutes of the movie plus an additional minute or so of footage from later in the film. I am not sure how spoilerific you all want this kind of thing to be, but I'll just say what I saw. The movie starts with a television personality interviewing two guests about the looming threat of Russian Nuclear Armament, and the doomsday clock being moved to 5 minutes to midnight. It is suggested that this is a reaction to the USA having Dr. Manhattan as their ultimate weapon. Anyhow, the show pans out into the living room of the Comedian who is (after a moment) no longer entertained by the political debate. He switches channels a few times glossing over media of the time, makes himself a drink and settles down only to *BAM* his door being kicked in. Thus the "only a matter of time" line. What you don't see in the previews is the fight scene that follows which is fairly impressive. I for one had been skeptical that this movie would over do it on the slow motion (as about 90% of the trailer was in slo mo!) but Zack Snyder really seemed to use it sparingly and to emphasize either emotion or intense action. Otherwise, the fight was LIGHTNING fast in terms of movement but not in duration. He really gets the snot kicked out of him before being thrown from the window...after which we get the opening credits. They roll over Bob Dylan's "the times they are a changin" and feature great scenes like portraiture of the old and new minutemen, the assasination of JFK (by the comedian), a glimpse of a young Rorschach. After this it goes right into Rorschach finding the Comedian's blood-stained happyface pin on a storm dran, investigating his apartment and discovering his identity as the Comedian. This whole scene was overlaid with Rorschach talking/reading a page from his diary. The movie cut there, went to black and then skipped to a scene much later with Rorschach in prison. Jackie Earl Haley looks kind of amazing in this scene. He's just this little guy who seems eternally wound up right from the get go. Some guys start harassing him and pass along a shiv to kill him with but are thwarted by Rorschach's sweet fighting moves. He knocks one guy around a bit with his cafeteria tray then grabs some fry oil and pours it across the attacker's face. Screaming ensues and Rorschach is rushed by some guards while screaming "None of you seem to understand! It's not me who's locked in here with you...it's you that's locked in here with me!" Also, no freakin slo-mo this scene. That's it. Pretty cool first glimpse of the movie which made me really want to see it. This looks like a fairly faithful adaptation, with the exception of the "squid monster" at the end (which Dave Gibbons today said "It's not even a squid! Sorry to disappoint all you cepelopod lovers out there.") and even that seems to be minor when framed within the medium. What i mean is this, and sorry to quote Dave Gibbons again but... "In the book the monster was like one big special effect at the end. In a movie full of special effects it seemed like it would lose it's impact and just be another effect." Given that he seemed actually pleased with the movie in totality, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Even without that same ending, this movie is poised to be amazing. Hope you dig the info! -Antoniusfunk
Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus
    + Expand All
  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:35 p.m. CST

    last

    by DanboJohnJ

    cant wait

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:35 p.m. CST

    second to last

    by starmand

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:36 p.m. CST

    FIRST?

    by dr sauch

    Sounds awesome

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:37 p.m. CST

    failed, both at first, and at life.

    by dr sauch

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:41 p.m. CST

    hooray

    by imascooby1985

    this is gonna be super neat!

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Snyder-haters are going to chew craw

    by Hint_of_Smegma

    Chew it you faithless humps, CHEW IT!

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Do we know how big a slice of the pie Fox is getting?

    by CreasyBear

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Jesus Christ, you fucking morons!

    by BruceVain

    It's not just a "political show" that Blake is watching ... it's the ferchrissakes McLaughlin Group! Pat Buchanan and Eleanor Clift are even mentioned by name! This show has only been on for, like 20 years or so ... surely you've heard of it? You've gotta be SLIGHTLY interested in something that's not on G4, surely?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:44 p.m. CST

    thanks for the spoiler warning

    by theredtoad

    appreciate it. not like i haven't read the book or anything.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Can it really be that good?

    by God's Brother

    really? Is WATCHMEN actually going to not suck? For real?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Saw the footage. I wanted more!!!

    by knowthyself

    Those eighteen minutes just fly by the pacing is spot on. Right into the story. Loved Rorschaches line in the prison. My only complaint was there was too much slo mo when Comedian was fighting the intruder.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:51 p.m. CST

    It's Snyder. You knew the slo-mo was a given.

    by V'Shael

    I just hope it's not overused like in 300.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:53 p.m. CST

    New Watchmen footage

    by codereduk

    Ohhhhh, goooood for you! And how was it? I hope it was fuckin’ good, because it’s useless now, isn’t it?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Snyder-Man, Snyder-Man

    by IAmMrMonkey!

    Does whatever a Snyder can.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    it's going to be out in a month you know...

    by Rupee88

    I'm not sure why I want to read a second by second recap of the first 18 min when I can see it at at the theater in 30 days...people are odd.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Was the DP visible in any of the footage?

    by BGDAWES

    Messing with the lights? I hope not.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:07 p.m. CST

    But has anyone actually see the movie yet?

    by cinemixtape.com

    10 minutes of footage means next to nothing.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Hint_of_Smegma, I don't think I should defrost my crow yet

    by Continentalop

    Sorry to be a heretic against the One True Faith (mindless devotion to the Watchmen movie) but I still have yet to see anything that says this will be a great movie. Snyder’s entire career has been devoted to making mindless eye-candy films: the original Dawn of the Dead was both a horror movie and an intelligent indictment of our consumer culture and human selfishness, while Snyder's biggest accomplishment in his version was making zombies fast; the 300 was a cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo, and it's only amazing achievement was that the film someone was able to be both homophobic and yet still homoerotic. He doesn’t really have the track record that makes me think he can pull off a deep, intelligent deconstruction of the superhero mythos. <p> And despite how good the footage and clips might look I don’t fear that I will have to gobble down a black bird anytime soon. Snyder might be able to make individual clips or shots look faithful to the comic, but is he touching the nuances and the spirit of the Watchmen and successfully translating it to a different medium? If you look at separate clips and scenes from Brett Ratner’s Red Dragon you see what looks like a faithful adaptation of Thomas Harris’ book, which it was; it was also soulless and completely joyless, and lacked the suspense and dread of Silence of the Lamb. <p> I’m not saying that Snyder won’t be able to pull of this movie, I just think there is a good chance based on his track record that he has failed to adapt the Watchmen to film. And that is the opinion I am sticking with, despite all the cheerleading from people on this site, until the film is released and I am possibly proven wrong. Until then the crow stays in the freezer.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Holy shit

    by Harold The Great

    Sounds great. I knew Snyder's gonna nail it.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Continentalop

    by BruceVain

    Fine insights, and concerns any smart reader/viewer would share. That's why I was so heartened by the footage shown yesterday: It seems Snyder might actually GET the nuances of the material. The new stuff in the credits montage could indeed have been excised from the material, given how well it supports Moore's idea that the arrival on the scene of superheroes jump-started so many cultural upheavals (including, in the case of Silhouette's brazenness, sexual politics).

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:15 p.m. CST

    OOPS!

    by BruceVain

    I meant "excised from the COMIC."

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    But what about the SQUID???

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Did anybody say anything about it? How does it look in the final footage???

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:19 p.m. CST

    And BruceVain...

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Unless someone's a big fan of both PBS and politics, they're not likely to know The McLaughlin Group from a hole in the wall.<p>Bye-BYYYYYEEE!

  • LOL indeed! I wish to know Buchanans views on nekkid Blue men.<p> <p>They are showing the clps to build up the hype along with the virals. Sure most people on this site know about it but they are trying to break through to the mainstream by word of mouth I would guess.<p> <p>Actually the thing that worried me of late was the "behind you" scene with Rorschach which was, from what we could see of it anyway, completely wasted. That had nothing to do with the subject matter or the squid or anything else. It was simply bad Moviemaking.<p> <p>However at least they seem to have got Rorschachs "hot oil" scene right. I look forward to Big figure.<p> <p>Personally I grow weary of those who always spam the Watchmen threads with "Snyder is a cock" or watchmen boxoffice "predictions" or virulent hatred because of squiddy as by now we've heard all the arguments and simply need to see the Movie.<p> <p>And see the Movie I will and I'm fairly sure I won't be alone.<p> <p>BTW there WAS a screening of an early cut of Watchmen some time ago and the verdict was pretty positive from what we were told.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Red Dragon V Manhunter

    by G100

    Intersting case that as Manhunter fucked with the books ending but was IMO the superior Movie. The Tooth Fairy was simply FAR more menacing in Manhunter which also just had far more "character" than Red Dragon.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Ghost

    by BruceVain

    Liked your signoff, but you don't have to be a "big fan" of something to know it exists. Thinking that recognizing John McLaughlin makes one a "big fan" of politics or PBS is like telling one of the indie publishers at Comic Con that you're a big fan of sequential art because you know who Wolverine is.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Watchmen will tank

    by theplant

    Quit the fuckin ass hype on this site, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK. BRING ON T4 FUCKIN ASS

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    So let me get this straight

    by ominus

    we have a shadowy figure fighting with the comedian before he throws him out of the windows.right. <p> ok Mr Snyder thank you for clarifying to me,how fucking idiot you are.not only you disrespect the original artwork,you cant even manage to capture the atmosphere of even the first page from the comic.didnt u understand that it would give an impact of suprise and the unexpected to the audience ,if the first scence was just comedian thrown out of the window? which would make the film to start a more suspensful and mysterious atmosphere.but i guess its cooler like that way,with the blood stained smiley pin following him during his fall and all that.hey we need to sell toys too.dont forget that. <p>fraking amateur.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:38 p.m. CST

    And since when the fuck,

    by ominus

    was the squid the MacGuffin device in the comics story???????? <>jesus christ have Snyder even read the fucking GN,or just lookied at the pretty pictures??

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:42 p.m. CST

    THE SQUID IS NOT A MACGUFFIN MOTHERFUCKER.

    by mode_7

    Fuckin' punk-ass plant.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST

    And for the record...

    by mode_7

    ...I believe this movie will in all likelihood kick ass, but to call the squid a MacGuffin is just wrong, as in not fucking anywhere near something that might be considered almost right-ish.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Ominus

    by BruceVain

    Well, it was Dave Gibbons who called the squid a MacGuffin. But what does he know, right?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 3:56 p.m. CST

    BruceVain

    by mode_7

    Yeah and I suppose someone that draws anatomical drawings for medical textbooks should be regarded as a fucking doctor. Besides which, Gibbons stands to make a lot more money from this movie than he has from the GN over the last 20+ years. I'm not sure he can be trusted to be at all objective.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4 p.m. CST

    Mode_7

    by BruceVain

    Moore has long lauded Gibbons as far more than the mere illustrator of the project; he certainly considers the guy its "co-creator." And had you been at the panel, you would likely have been struck by how genuine the guy appears to be; I'm totally skeptical of these convention spin specials, but he seemed honestly enthused by the project without coming across as any sort of sellout.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Continentalop, do you enjoy the taste of penis?

    by dr sauch

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Gibbons called the squid a McGuffin.

    by knowthyself

    Feel free to tell him he's wrong. He only illustrated the comic and all.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:02 p.m. CST

    OFC gibbons cant be trusted

    by ominus

    he has always praised all the movie adaptations of his works with Mr Moore.u see money talks. <p>But regardless his credibility,its sure as hell that the squid isnt a MacGuffin device. <p>whoever doesnt know what a macguffin is,he can just go to this link,and learn: <p>http://tinyurl.com/25rume

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:03 p.m. CST

    DEE, DEH, DEE, DEH. DEE...FUCKING AMATEUR!!!!!!!!!

    by bacci40

    it is not trivial for blake to have allowed himself to die...it fits with his foot at the bed "confession" to moloch

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:03 p.m. CST

    DEE, DEH, DEE, DEH. DEE...FUCKING AMATEUR!!!!!!!!!

    by bacci40

    it is not trivial for blake to have allowed himself to die...it fits with his foot at the bed "confession" to moloch

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Funny how the original DOTD...

    by knowthyself

    ...is now treated like Citizen Kane. Its a fucking zombie movie. You want to say its commentary on consumerism just because zombies are fucking riding escalators? Good lord geeks need to get their heads out of their asses and spend some time with real literature and art.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Haters

    by lonestaricon

    I hope the movie kicks as, I hope everyone is happy after seeing the movie. I hope that it makes a huge profit. I hope both studios get what they deserve. I hope fans of the comic realize that both the best and the worst movie makers take liberties with their source material - sometime the end result is good and sometimes not. I am glad that the comic has so many fans and I hope the movie creates more. i hope the movie is compelling enough to get my butt in the theatre, but ifit is not, I'll buy the dvd and watch it. I hope that comic fans who hate the movie would direct their displeasure towards something more deserving of hate. No one is forcing you to see the movie and it's existence doesn't diminish the quality of the comic. Now f-off the lot of you! LOL

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST

    In other words

    by ominus

    A MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device that motivates the characters or advances the story. <p>its obvious from the above,that the macguffin in the watchmen story,is the Comedian's murder. <p>The squid is a bit difficult to motivate the story,since its releaved almost at the END OF THE FUCKING STORY.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:08 p.m. CST

    He said its LIKE a MacGuffin

    by knowthyself

    Its merely a means to an end. The end is the same. That is his point. The cause of that end is irrelevant.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:09 p.m. CST

    DOTT

    by ominus

    day of the tentacle. <p>one of the best adventure games ever.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST

    knowthyself...dont embarress yourself

    by bacci40

    the original dotd was a commentary on consumerism because the zombified masses headed for the mall<p> they did it by instinct

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Watchmen is 2% Gibbons

    by Rupee88

    That's not to say he didn't contribute much to it, but why is it that Watchmen is the only brilliant work of Dave Gibbon that springs to mind while Alan Moore has done numerous obvious others? Watchmen without Dave Gibbons probably wouldn't have been quite as good....Watchmen without Alan Moore would not exist.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Basic math

    by BruceVain

    2 percent of Watchmen = 2,164 times more than any of us here will ever accomplish in our lives. BTW, at Comic Con, Gibbons assured that he will NOT help promote any potential Watchmen sequels or prequels, and that Snyder wasn't likely to be involved, either. Didn't sound like a guy who was wholly interested in sucking the corporate teat.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Beneath a steel sky

    by ominus

    another one great adventure game,with gibbons artwork. it was accompanied with a mini comic,illustrated by gibbons himseld.damn i miss those days.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:21 p.m. CST

    gibbons work on give me liberty and martha washington

    by bacci40

    is spectacular...so watchmen isnt the only classic he helped to create<p> but he has sold out here...not sure i can blame the man...they thew alot of money and alot of work his way

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:23 p.m. CST

    What the fuck ever happened to Adventure Games?

    by mode_7

    They need to make a comeback. I think Monkey Island 3 was the last one I played. Mind you, it did kind of suck.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Eeer

    by ominus

    what about the existing prequel videogame,the animated comic,and the animated movie version of the Black Freighter.arent these parto fthe corporate teat?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST

    What means this "eer"?

    by BruceVain

    Black Freighter and the motion comic, as far as I'm aware, both adapt material that is already in the book, and the videogame is based on material that is referenced in the boo--and was previously created from an RPG by none other than Moore himself. Gibbons was talking about feature films created from whole cloth. But I hope you get a good workout grasping at those straws.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Oops again

    by BruceVain

    "Book," not "boo." And created "for" an RPG, not "from." Damn keys.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:36 p.m. CST

    I WILL WATCH THE WATCHMEN

    by Broseph

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:36 p.m. CST

    KurtLockwood

    by BruceVain

    "Judas"? Oh, come on. Get some perspective. Gibbons is totally right that the squid would not have worked in the context of a film -- and if we're all being honest, it's a device that only narrowly works in the book in the first place. (It's OK to consider Watchmen less than perfect, folks, It really is.)

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:41 p.m. CST

    The squid is Ozymandias's Maguffin

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Dumbass! It's the pointless thing that HE uses to motivate the world into doing what he wants (moving away from impending armageddon).<p>And, by the way, a Maguffin is distinct from an actual event - such as the Comedian's murder - as a plot motivator. See also "top secret weapon/invention/device."<p>Moron.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Does Ozymandias still get killed with a batarang?

    by Kevin Holsinger

    That's what happened at the end of David Hayter's 2006 script, and while most of it was faithful to the comic, that was one of the deviations I had a problem with.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:42 p.m. CST

    mode7

    by Dingbatty

    go here for reviews of new Adv games: http://tinyurl.com/d3v4zf<p>Also, there are homebrews now: http://tinyurl.com/hmnaq & http://tinyurl.com/cz6xfy & http://tinyurl.com/dc4v9f

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:46 p.m. CST

    In other words...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    The Watchmen is, essentially, a mystery about the creation of a Macguffin (sorry about the misspelling earlier).

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:55 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by mode_7

    I see what you're saying but calling the squid a MacGuffin implies that it really doesn't matter what it is. It didn't have to be a giant squid, I'll grant you that, but it DID have to appear alien (Manhattan doesn't count for reasons already explained way too many times) and it DID have to be created by artists and the like for it to work. Snyder's ending does not meet these criteria.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Lockwood

    by oceanic86

    Don't you have anything better to do than troll Watchmen talkbacks with your reactionary dickwaddery? Like, say, applying ointment to your undoubtedly countless cold sores and genital warts, or hollowing out some dried-up, flabby meat-taco for a few bucks? Stick to porn, douche; they tolerate dickwads a lot better than geeks.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Fuck sake

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    The Comedian fighting back indicates he has life left in him. Which is NOT in the comic-book. He's utterly spent with what he finds out, yet doesn't tell anyone because he KNOWS it makes sense. That's the whole point of his character - that the plot is something that sickens him, yet he understand that it has to be done and accepts that he has to die. <p> If he's fighting back, then he doesn't understand it and his subsequent arc makes no fucking sense.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 4:59 p.m. CST

    The Squid

    by Atropos

    Why doesn't Manhattan count as alien? He's something new, something feared, something no-one knows quite how to control. In terms of the original comic, it actually makes PERFECT sense to substitute the Manhattan for the Squid. In some ways, it actually makes MORE sense.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Manhattan

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Makes no sense. He's an American symbol for one thing. <P> For another, how would that bring people together? Russia is seconds from bombing America, why would someone beating them to it make Russia repentant?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:03 p.m. CST

    An Alien squid is entirely neutral

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    It's a foreign construct attacking us. There's no 'he did this because' about it - no bias. More of them could come. So the world unites against a different threat - not a symbol of one particular country.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST

    oceanic86

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    You call Kurt a troll? Your name suggests you blow Lost constantly, so fuck off to that thread and let the grown-ups discuss Watchmen.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST

    oh, and KurtLockwood

    by Atropos

    I'm a big fan of the Squid. But I still say Manhattan going rogue (or rather the FEAR of it) is just as effective - PLOT-wise. And sure, you can wax poetical about the deeper meanings of the Squid as it pertains to the medium and superhero-comics etc etc, but at then end of the day, as a pure deus ex machina (which is in effect what it was created to be), the perceived threat of Dr. Manhattan going rogue is just as effective, and even brings its own, new deeper meanings. I will always love the squid, but if its the difference between Watchmen being filmable or not (and I get Snyder's argument here), then I say cut the Squid! Oh, and also I think "Cut the Squid" should now officially replace "Kill your darlings".

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Snyder's argument

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Doesn't add up when he's got an over five minute sequence where he takes sentences from the comic-book and creates montage images out of them. <p> HE! DOES! NOT! GET! IT!</p> <P> The only thing he understands is how to visually pair them up - he does understand how to translate the meaning of the piece.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by mode_7

    I think the way it plays out in the Movie is that Veidt blows up multiple cities around the world using Manhatton's blue energy signature or some bullshit like that. Snyder obviously believes that plugs the plotholes but obviously if Moscow were to go up in flames the Russians ain't gonna wait around for the news reports before they retaliate. Veidt would pretty much bring about the armageddon he's hoping to avoid.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Not to mention

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    This 'oh, it's one more special effect' concept is bullshit. What, so you're telling me the studio will balk at a squid but be okay with another CGI Manhattan? Yeah, horseshit.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:10 p.m. CST

    You're kidding, Mode_7?

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    The Russians would bomb the shit out of America immediately. In the comic-book, both sides ARE looking for an excuse to bomb the other.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:16 p.m. CST

    That's the way it played out in the more recent...

    by mode_7

    ...drafts of the script, and I get the feeling from a few things I've seen online that it hasn't deviated much from that in the final version.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Head. Meet wall. CRACK

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    That sound is my brain exploding in geek-rage. It's not an actual explosion, no - it was changed at the last moment to my finger being broken. <p> It's the same effect, really? No meaning has been lost.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Only with lime juice, dr. sauch, only with lime juice.

    by Continentalop

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Heck

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    If they cut that montage AND the fight, then we've gained eight minutes. The squid takes 30? Cut the backstory for Kovacs. Then you've got a good sixteen minutes cut.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:33 p.m. CST

    and mode 7 insults artists everywhere

    by lex romero

    Christ you came across as a cock. Comic book artists are generally regarded as co-creators, they're not the equivilant of "drawing medical pictures".

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 5:40 p.m. CST

    The Squid is silly and ridiculous and outrageous...

    by Continentalop

    that is the entire point of the squid. As Adolph Hitler said (which Ozymandias quotes in the comic), "The more outrageous the lie, the more likelihood that people will believe it." Hence, having a giant, alien, psychic squid kill millions; it is so preposterous that people will have to believe it. <p> Personally, I don't know if the Squid is essential or not. It is a film adaptations, so obviously some things will have to be lost or changed. The questions is, will Snyder try to present Dr. Manhattan killing millions as a lie so preposterous that people will believe it, or does he change the very nature of the threat and instead go with the idea of all the world having to band together against a much superior force. I guess we will have to wait and see... <p>

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST

    haha

    by brobdingnag

    "the 300 was a cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo" Thus is ANYTHING that promotes self reliance and actually standing up for for something branded by modern fat, lazy and stupid Americans.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST

    lex romero

    by mode_7

    What the fuck are you talking about? All I was saying is that Gibbons' did not require an absolute and total understanding of every level of the book in order to do his job effectively. From what I understand, Moore provides extremely detailed panel descriptions to the artists he works with.<p> Now please explain to me exactly how I insulted "artists everywhere"?

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:08 p.m. CST

    "Why doesn't Manhattan count as alien?"

    by brobdingnag

    Because he isn't one? I don't know, maybe it's me, is that a trick question? Seriously, anyone who equates Manhattan going rogue with the Squid and it's context is an imbecile. There's just no amount of bullshit that can rationalize it.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Kurt Lockwood

    by BruceVain

    Yeah, you're speaking English, asshole. You're also throwing around a college freshman's idea of "meta" art to protect an idea that (as I recall) wasn't even worked out when the story began being published, and which (more important) doesn't fit tonally with the rest of the book. Also, if the squid works largely as a commentary on the comics form, then what utility would it have in a MOVIE? (Which leads to a larger can of worms ... what would be the point of a totally reverent interpretation of the most IRreverent graphic novel ever?) Oh, and it doesn't matter if it's a squid or not -- the whole "banding together against a common foe" is an utterly naive notion that's the one serious flaw in Moore's otherwise masterpiece. Nobody in the story questions the aphorism "The enemy of my enemy is my friend," when history has shown again and again that the enemy of my enemy is my other enemy. Finally, for the guy who thinks the movie is going to suck because Blake is smoking a cigar on the grassy knoll: Get help immediately, or at least a hobby.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:13 p.m. CST

    re: Fox's Pie

    by hamster factor

    I think I read 8% or something like that

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:21 p.m. CST

    brobdingnag

    by shellfishh

    What is your nationality? Just wondering, so I can insult you properly and accurately.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:26 p.m. CST

    brobdingnag

    by Continentalop

    While I understand the appeal of Laconophilia, I wonder how ia society that promotes eugenics, slavery (the Spartans were the only Greeks who enslaved other Greeks), fanatical zealotry, and waging war for the sake of waging war a society that we "fat, lazy and stupid Americans" should idolize? Pretty much everything that makes America great is an anathema to the Spartans, and vise versa. <p> I am not saying you can't make a movie about the Spartans, but don't try to push fascism, racism and sadism down my throat and call it noble.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:31 p.m. CST

    BruceVain

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    The whole POINT behind Watchmen is that the plan ONLY works for a limited time. It'll bring humanity together for a while, but then we drift apart. It IS a naive notion, but maybe if you'd read Manhattan's final lines in the comic-book you would know that Moore wasn't saying 'we'll live in bliss' at all.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Zeddemore

    by BruceVain

    Oh, so that's the "whole point" behind Watchmen? The entire book? Silly me; I thought the point was to deconstruct superheroes and use them as a metaphor for America's role in the 20th century. Whatevs. But as I recall, isn't the implication that the plan does nor hold solely based on The Frontiersman's receipt of Rorschach's diary? In other words, the IDEA behind the plan was perfectly sound ... which it isn't.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Whoops yet again

    by BruceVain

    "not," not "nor."

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:49 p.m. CST

    BruceVain

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    No, as Manhattan says 'Nothing lasts forever.' They're merely delaying what was already going to happen. <p> The world being united against an Alien thread only lasts so long as everyone is on the same page. Whether the plan gets out or not is irrelevent - humanity would end up arguing pretty soon over who was going to lead the race to take out the Aliens.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    by lunalu

    I spent the last few days at NYCC too and I was really looking forward to this panel. The movie looks like it was taken straight from the novel itself. I cannot wait to see the rest of it. Met Dave Gibbons today and the man really and truly appreciates his fans.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    The Squid

    by skoolbus

    I know this will be read as blasphemy, but the "squid" is my least favorite part of the book.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:03 p.m. CST

    So 18 mins into the movie, they are at book 1 page 2.

    by ricarleite

    Good pacing. Also: I pondered on it for a while, but the squid would be very confusing for non-reading audiences (99% of them). It would require a LOT of explaining and exposition (the island), and people would still not get it. It's not that it won't fit the film, stupid people (which is 99% of morons out there) will not get it.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Re: CreasyBear - Fox is getting 8.5%

    by ricarleite

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:07 p.m. CST

    I'm going to go watch Batman & Robin..

    by knowthyself

    ...because people just don't remember what comic book films USED to be like that we're here arguing over semantics. Then I'll pop in Spawn for a double feature reminder and thank the heavens those days are over. You guys can continue arguing over whether or not comedian fights back, or whether the squid matters or not, and if Rorschache speaks every line to your liking.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST

    FUckin' Slo-Mo

    by Aquatarkusman

    Akira Kurosawa would have cut that one scene of the guy falling to the ground in The Seven Samurai if he knew Snyder was abusing it to the point of ludicrousness like this.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Zeddemore

    by BruceVain

    A fair enough interpretation, but I still think it's silly for everyone involved to think the plan would even work in the short term. To each his own. And to knowthyself: EXACTLY.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:21 p.m. CST

    Never read Watchmen until now?

    by Frankenblogger

    Fuck you, Knowles. Fucking moron. You suck.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:53 p.m. CST

    Can..... not..... wait.

    by JDanielP

    WATCHMEN and TERMINATOR are the summer MUST SEE flicks for me. Then I'll look forward to AVATAR and having my eYebaLLs fcUKed.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Pat Buchanan And Nekkid Blue Man

    by ericinwisconsin

    Buchanan: Look John, Washington is eager to interject Manhattan into every global crisis from Vietnam to the Middle East. The fact is that he's a puppet of Israeli imperialism so long as the Republicans are in office. If the Democrats were in, he would be some sort of fantastic, giant squid, terrifying the world and making us bow down to the Soviets in some sort of accelerated glastnost.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Oops... WATCHMEN hits theatres in March?

    by JDanielP

    All the better!

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 8:35 p.m. CST

    new watchmen trailer during grammys

    by knowthyself

    I just filled the cup.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 8:57 p.m. CST

    The amount of stupidity in this TB is astounding

    by Monkey Butler

    First of all, people calling other people idiots should be pretty sure they actually know their grammar, or they'll just end up looking foolish. Mixing up its and it's, or there, their and they're while calling someone else an ignoramus must be pretty embarrassing. <p> Secondly, nobody here has actually seen the finished film, and yet purists still try to force everyone else to explain why removing the squid could work. There are plenty of ways that it could work, and hopefully Snyder's chosen one of them. From what Snyder's said in all his interviews and production diaries its fairly obvious that he sees Manhattan as the main character of the story. Making him the squid-replacement certainly changes the story, but by shifting the focus onto the man-made Superman/God, there's a chance for the story to actually become more interesting. Purists just need to get over the fact that things have been changed, and definitely need to stop equating different with bad.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 9:17 p.m. CST

    No

    by Monkey Butler

    Calling someone a fuckiwt or a asshole or something makes you look fucking stupid. End of. <p> And my rant wasn't really referring to you Kurt, but even still, there's fun discussion of what could be versus what is versus what isn't, and then there's just whiny bitchiness. It's my experience that comic fans can't have one without it descending to the other.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Continentalop

    by brobdingnag

    The problem is that you are a cowardly, ineffectual, pseudo-intellectual for whom personal responsibility equates to fascism, national pride racism and thinks that his notion of ethics is a cast in stone truism that can be applied to any culture or time in history.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Looking forward to this.

    by mrfan

    One of my favorite things is all the little touches that Snyder is giving the viewers. The dvd should be packed with goodies galore. I will be there. So far, it is looking good.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 9:55 p.m. CST

    I'm excited for this movie & it's extended DVD.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

    I'll probably end up owning 3 versions of this one. Poor pocketbook.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 10:21 p.m. CST

    ahh... KurtLockwood

    by Stickman83

    nice to see you whine again. I barely keep track of talkbackers, but I still remember you whining about Johnny 5 / Wall-E. I think I'll never understand what's the appeal of "flame wars" to someone like you. Do you actually *like* to bitch? Do you take pride from it? Alas, the world will never know (at least I hope so!)

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST

    brobdingnag

    by Sgt.Steiner

    The voice of Bill O'Reilly's tiny little member.

  • Feb. 8, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Lots of excellent pro- and anti-squid tomfoolery above...

    by BiggusDickus

    ...but unfortunately, the only mental image I'm able to process right now is oceanic86's mom choking on KurtLockwood's brown trout.<p>Disturbing...

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 12:13 a.m. CST

    Continentalop, you're wrong about 300

    by harmil

    I just wanted to say that you missed what 300 was about. Yes, it's a "cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo." It's supposed to be. The entire movie is about the last few minutes, where you find out that you haven't been watching the story of what happened. You've been listening to the speech that was given to the troops to rally them. It's propaganda, and it's intended to make the audience question that validity of wartime propaganda, regardless of how good it might make you feel about your countrymen who have died. NOW, it's important to note that none of that is Snyder's doing. He didn't write the graphic novel, but he did do an excellent job of bringing it to the screen. For those of us who noticed what was going on, it was a very different film. Will he do a good Watchmen? I, for one, no longer care. Just what I've seen in the trailers is more than I dared hope for when I heard there was going to be a Watchmen movie. I was dead-convinced that this was going to suck, and that we've seen as much as we have and it's still good... I can put up with an awful lot right now. I'll note the flaws. I'll mourn the squid. But in the end, I'll be happy with most of this film if what I've seen is representative.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Kurt Lockwood

    by BruceVain

    You know exactly what you said. I know what you said. And it's up there for anybody to read. It's YOU who needs to raise his intellectual sights a bit, since your every argument is based on your single "genius" discovery that Watchmen sends up comic-book tropes. So glad you've had more than two decades to figure that out. What are you going to do for an encore? And BTW, my "attitude" in and of itself smokes your first-semester navel-gazing five Sundays out of February. Now shove your belligerent, middlebrow purism up your fucking ass and let the big people talk.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 12:57 a.m. CST

    brobdingnag

    by Continentalop

    Wow, it is amazing you were able to discern the real me just from a couple of post and from the fact I did not like a movie (a film a number of other people also didn't like, including a number of historians and critics). Man, I am just amazed that are able to figure out that I am a coward and a pseudo-intellectual. Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you. <p> The thing is brobdingnag, the idea of calling someone names on this site is just pathetic, because A) the other person is just a faceless person protected by anonymity and distance, B) you can never prove or disprove what you say about someone else, so if you or I call the other person a coward how can we disprove it? So it is pointless for me to insult you and say that you are just a cowardly blowhard, who tries to talk tough but is most likely a feeble wimp who has probably never even been in a fight, let alone won one. <p> But I will say I can take a couple of guesses about you considering that you just blew a gasket over my opinion about a movie. That tells me you are very insecure and very shallow minded. People who are secure about their beliefs don’t panic when someone dares to disagree with them. They present a counter argument, instead of just jumping to pathetic, childish little insult. But I guess that a counter argument would imply you have something intelligent to say, instead of just shooting off a bunch of simple slogans and who thinks that Nazi Germany was a country based on personal responsibility, national pride and by the standards of the 1940s was an ethical country. <p>

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Why're you guys all still up????

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Is Harry handing out stimulus checks to TBers now? Where's MINE???

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:07 a.m. CST

    The Ending (obvious spoiler)

    by OQuaTanginWann

    Up until now, I have not been happy about the squid situation. <br><br> But I finally gave in and read the last few pages of Hayter's script. If nothing was changed from what I read, it's GREAT. <br><br> My fear was that Manhattan was going to be blamed for the ending. Perhaps I missed something, but beyond the obvious fake cancer thing with his prior associates, that was not the case. <br><br> It seems the squid was just traded for something a little more plausible, but the tone was exactly the same.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:14 a.m. CST

    harmill

    by Continentalop

    I am sorry but I disagree. To quote Kurt Vonnegut, “You are what you pretend to be.” A film that pretends to be the presentation of another group’s propaganda is just that, another group’s propaganda. You can claim in defense that the message it is delivering is something you don’t endorse, but doesn’t the film still disseminates the information and try to influence the viewers just as much as a film that actually endorsed those opinions? If Leni Riefenstahl had made “Triumph of the Will” as an example of potential Nazi propaganda instead of as actual propaganda, would it have been any less effective or damaging? <p> But while I disagree with you I give you credit for presenting an argument as to why you don’t think 300 was bad. Maybe bropdingnag can learn a thing or two from you about how to conduct an intelligent debate.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 2:48 a.m. CST

    Well, I'm no biologist but...

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    I smell PLANT!<p>### A V A T A R - FUCKING YOUR EYEBALLS IN 2009 ###

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 2:49 a.m. CST

    Ominous

    by Happyfat73

    The Comedian's murder is not the macguffin in Watchmen - it's the inciting incident. </p>Just thought you should know.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 4:10 a.m. CST

    About 300

    by Monkey Butler

    It's also worth noting that it's perfectly valid to dislike 300 because of poor acting, monotonous action, laughable score, uneven tone and occasionally dodgy effects. Arguments about racism, militarism and homophobia/eroticism are kinda superfluous.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 4:11 a.m. CST

    Starro

    by Dingbatty

    Instead of a squid, it should've been an octopus. Much more meaningful.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 4:59 a.m. CST

    Happyfat73

    by ominus

    the what??

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 5:41 a.m. CST

    Good work, Happyfat73

    by Mr_Sinister

    I was wondering if someone would point that out!

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 5:42 a.m. CST

    Debate is meaningless

    by brobdingnag

    with collectivist word parsers whose goal is moral judgment based on emotion. Reason is not your currency, victim status is.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 5:58 a.m. CST

    300 is all about judgement based on emotion...

    by Cameron1

    pride and fear being the most obvious. A little tip to the quasi-fascists like brob - praising a film that fetishes a culture who killed disabled children only shows your narcissitic double standard.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 6 a.m. CST

    narcissistic, even.

    by Cameron1

    brob's fantasy fascist kingdom for an edit button.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 7:16 a.m. CST

    Over analyzing 300 much?

    by knowthyself

    Its just a highly stylized action fantasy film. Get over it. Yes its machismo fueled mayhem and I for one loved every minute of it. If I want smart I'll watch Bladerunner. If I want action I'll watch 300.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Squid is a Macguffin

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    What don't you fucking understand?

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 7:52 a.m. CST

    300

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Just cause it's a cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo doesn't make it bad - or at least unknowing. That's the key - were they having fun being outrageous? I think so.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Regular audiences are too dumb to get the squid

    by ricarleite

    THINK for one fucking second

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Just cause you can explain the squid

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    doesn't mean it fits the book or makes sense, or works. I'm not saying it doesn't either. But just cause it references this or that or comments on this or that or whatever, that doesn't mean it WORKS. It's a comic book, not a term paper - execution counts.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 8:12 a.m. CST

    Kalamari Damacy

    by Dingbatty

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 8:24 a.m. CST

    ITs not a fucking squid...

    by Chadley BeBay

    That nickname is the epitome of un-coolness.. Fuck the people who think the interdimmension being is a mcguffin, and fuck everyone who thinks its cool to fundamentally change Watchmen

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 9:17 a.m. CST

    k'lia

    by j_difool

    in some countries, squid is a delicacy. now, go eat some mystery meat that's been preserved in rancid fat. that's the new mcguffin, bitches.

  • Since Alan Moore is too busy reading LITTLE LULU comics in his bunker, it's up to Dave Gibbons to be main consultant regarding the original source material. And if Gibbons doesn't have a problem with it, I don't have a problem with it.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Aparently the Squid has been replaced with a Katamari

    by Judge_Dredd

    It just rolls all over the city and kills everyone.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Motoko Kusanagi...

    by BiggusDickus

    ...is the new MCMLXXVI<p>"Damn You James Cameron!"

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 10:38 a.m. CST

    to appease the "squid" crowd...

    by teddanson37

    snyder should release an alternate cut of the movie that is nothing but four and half hours of squid footage.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Surprise ? additional reshoots with the Squid

    by theplant

    They are afraid to loose the 3 fanboys posting here who will see the movie anyway.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Neat!

    by GOB Adama

    Maybe I’m the last horse to cross the finish line on this, but check out what I just noticed: If you go to see a midnight showing of Watchmen then you have 3-6-9, at 12… The quadrants of a clock face.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST

    300

    by Continentalop

    If you like 300, more power to you. I was listing the reasons why I dislike 300. It is a subjective personal opinion. Some people consider Death Wish as racist, fascist film – I see it as a cathartic vigilante film and study how violence and the desire for revenge dwells in the heart of every man. To each their own. <p> I don't care if you disagree with me, and I respect the fact that you can have different opinion. What I can't stand is personal attacks against someone just because they don’t have the same opinion as you. To those people out there who do that: Sorry you are so inadequate that you require everyone to conform to your narrow viewpoint, because if they don’t your fragile world and pathetic ego will be shattered.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:01 p.m. CST

    I liked 300, too!

    by BiggusDickus

    Bit gay though, wasn't it?

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Ending Prediction

    by KryptonsLastSon

    My prediction of the "new" ending of this movie is that Dr. Manhattan is made to go nuclear by Ozymandis. Ozy probably uses a machine on him making him loose cohesion and destroy New York. Thus the world turns on the evil that nuclear arms/research has created. Manhattan melting down would be similar to the Squids psychic blast in Times Square. We'll see.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Actually asshole, I am Doctor Manhattan

    by Doctor Manhattan

    ...way to steal an existing login you fucker.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:36 p.m. CST

    ACall me Dr Manhatten...

    by jimbubble

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Call me Dr Manhatten???

    by jimbubble

    What is it with you fxckin nob jockeys,can`t you come up with something all by your selves,or do you need a big person to help you??? Retards! Oh and anyone that has read the novel and loves it,will no doubt be giving this a miss... Adrien Veidt looking like a 25yr old bum boy in this movie...wtf?

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Ask youselves this:

    by mode_7

    Would Kubrick have cut the squid? The answer is; would he fuck. He'd have had some balls, respected his audience and followed it through to it's proper conclusion. I find this "audiences are to dumb to comprehend" argument condescending and weak.<p> I suppose none of you making that argument are gonna be opposed to the inevitable castration of the AKIRA Hollywood remake either, because that ending is even higher up the what-the-fuck meter. I expect to see you all back here explaining to me exactly why Tetsuo's freakout "just wouldn't work" in a live action movie intended for general release.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 2:45 p.m. CST

    GREAT BUBASTIS' GHOST!!

    by TakeItEasyMon

    You people... What's wrong with trusting the source material? Assuming concepts are too difficult for the mainstream audience is an exercise in futility. "The audience won't understand the squid!" Oh really? Just like they won't understand a 50 ft tall glowing-blue flying man-god disintegrating people? Or... laser swords and a "force" that crazy space-monks use, or a guy beating up criminals in a bat suit? Or an alien orphan flying around in his red and blue underwear? For fuck's sake.....give people some credit. Why spend a hundred million dollars and do 90% justice to the original material just to blue-ball us on the ending? Yea I'm going to see it, yea it's going to be (mostly) great, but it's just a silly thing to change for no goddamn reason.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Please stop...

    by Ned Pepper

    ...discussing your differing interpretations of the symbolism and inherent meaning of various plot devices within the graphic novel, and get back to calling each other doo-doo and pee-pee names.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 3:06 p.m. CST

    face the facts

    by ItsaMadMadMadMaxWorld

    The squid was cut because it was stupid, not because movie audiences are stupid. I read the graphic novel and loved every second of it...until that idiotic ending. Almost makes the end of "Unbreakable" look like pure genius. If you polled a hundred real script writers, you'd get back "cut the squid" every single time. Granted, whatever they put in its place may be just as retarded, but no Watchmen movie could ever be made without rewriting the ending.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 3:21 p.m. CST

    ItsaMadMadMadMaxWorld

    by mode_7

    I'm sick of explaining this shit over and over again. Read the fucking talkback, or any of the dozen other ones for an explanation of why you and your post can go fuck themselves. Do you honestly believe the book would be as highly regarded as it is if the ending didn't work? Would Time magazine put it in the list of the greatest books ever written if the ending didn't work? Do you honestly believe that, or do you think it's possible that you may have missed something?

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Do you want me to go trash your fucking lights?

    by hatespeech

    Fuck! What the fuck is it wit you?

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST

    On MacGuffins...

    by Happyfat73

    I don't think the squid (or fabricated inter-dimensional being if you want to be pedantic) is a macguffin. It doesn't motivate the characters (it appears at the end) and it is not the object around which the plot revolves. I'd say that Watchmen doesn't have a macguffin.</p> The crystal skull is a macguffin</p> The glowy suitcase is a macguffin</p> The maltese falcon is a macguffin</p> The rubics cube from transformers is a macguffin.</p> I'd even say that the One Ring is a macguffin. The squid... not so macguffiny.</p> Oh... and ominus? The inciting incident is the event which sets the story in motion.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST

    On MacGuffins...

    by Happyfat73

    I don't think the squid (or fabricated inter-dimensional being if you want to be pedantic) is a macguffin. It doesn't motivate the characters (it appears at the end) and it is not the object around which the plot revolves. I'd say that Watchmen doesn't have a macguffin.</p> The crystal skull is a macguffin</p> The glowy suitcase is a macguffin</p> The maltese falcon is a macguffin</p> The rubics cube from transformers is a macguffin.</p> I'd even say that the One Ring is a macguffin. The squid... not so macguffiny.</p> Oh... and ominus? The inciting incident is the event which sets the story in motion.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Wow...

    by CorpseRide

    ...looks like a lot of people woke up on the wrong side of my cock this morning.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST

    WATCHMEN NEW ENDING REVEALED!

    by shagg187

    New ending illustrated by Dave Gibbons: http://i43.tinypic.com/34qk669.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/rado9s.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/2w54mqs.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/15e71c3.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/2884jmu.jpg

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 9:27 p.m. CST

    To Doctor Manhattan...

    by JacksParasites

    Simply registering for the talk back under an already very famous character name doesn't give you dibs on the name. When you scoop a story, you can call yourself whatever you want.

  • Feb. 9, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    KurtLockwood

    by shagg187

    Manhattan/Laurie don't appear in the Nixon war room. They appear in Manhattan as shown in the trailers (sorry for the camera flash but that's the best I could do).

  • Feb. 10, 2009, 12:54 a.m. CST

    JacksParasites

    by BruceVain

    Registering under an already very famous character name gives you at least as many dibs as being one of a few thousand people who saw a presentation based on a book you yourself have not yet finished, and not recognizing real-world players who are identified in said presentation by name. Some "scoop."

  • Feb. 10, 2009, 2:51 a.m. CST

    mode_7

    by BrightEyes

    stop using the Kubrick argument you fucking tool! Kubrick was the king of cutting original parts of the novels he adapted for the screen. because cinema and literature are two different mediums. Fuck some of you people on here are stupid

  • Feb. 10, 2009, 3:35 a.m. CST

    Congrats shagg187, THAT is a scoop. Learn, AICN.

    by ricarleite

    Terrible ending, it's true. Fucking grotesque blaming Dr Manhattan, but it's like I said, the general audiences would not get the squid, even if Ozymandias used a puppet show to explain.

  • Feb. 10, 2009, 5:04 a.m. CST

    wow. That's a shock

    by Lost Jarv

    "He falls in slow motion with the smiley face pin right behind him and then both hit the ground"

  • Feb. 10, 2009, 8:17 a.m. CST

    This obsession with the squid...

    by knowthyself

    ..is mind boggling. I think people just want to complain. Its too easy to notice that Snyder just wiped out NYC in a film post 9/11. We are talking about a world where they had to cut the Spiderman TEASER because people were too sensitive to seeing the towers afterwards. Remember the ending to Fight Club? Remember how mind blowing it was? Snyder is basically going to do that to a wide audience on a massive scale...and NO ONE finds that incredible? Or are we going to keep bitching about a giant special effect? Which if you ask me is just as boring as an explosion.

  • Feb. 10, 2009, 9:21 a.m. CST

    300!

    by dude_gimme_tabs

    The genius that is known as the 'Swollen Goiter of God' nailed this over at Corona. So I quote him - "If 300 was a person, it would be Kid Rock."