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Dr Manhattan & Others chime in on WATCHMEN Footage from NYCC!
Hey folks, Harry here... Seems they showed the exact same block of footage we got at BNAT 10, and dear god was that cool. Here's a rundown of the footage and how it made these two go all heart irises and floaty huggy love...
Hey Harry,
I don't think anyone's reported this yet on the site but earlier today I caught the first 18 minutes of Watchmen along with another 20-30 sec. clip from a later scene at the NYC Comic Con. First let me clarify that I'm currently reading the graphic novel for the first time and am towards the end. The last I left off in my reading Rorshach and Nite Owl are on their way to Antarctic. So I haven't had this story built up in my mind for many years like others and I have no opinion whatsoever about The Squid, though the panel again confirmed that The Squid is not in the movie or in deleted material but said they used another "MacGuffin."
Anyway, the footage I've seen is AWESOME. I'm sure the diehard fans will find some trivial details to complain about but I don't know what there is to complain about. The film starts with a yellow Warner Brothers logo that somehow (I forget) transitions into the yellow of Blake's smiley face pin. Blake’s watching television and Snyder takes us inside Blake’s TV as he watches a political news show. The panel is discussing some speech President Nixon gave and we see a quick clip Nixon speaking. The show’s panel discusses the doomsday clock and they disagree over whether Dr. Manhattan’s presence is helping matters or pushing us closer to nuclear annihilation.
As Blake starts flipping channels we see below the door the shadow of two feet. Suddenly the door is busted down with a figure in black on the other side as Blake says, “Just a matter of time, I suppose” as we see in the trailer. A several minute fight sequence follows where Blake does really well but where it’s clear that he’s met his match. After he gets his ass kicked, a drop of blood falls onto the smiley face pin as he’s resigned himself to his fate. His opponent picks him up and tosses him out the window. He falls in slow motion with the smiley face pin right behind him and then both hit the ground.
There’s another transition involving the smiley face pin that takes us into the main titles sequence. As the titles play to Dylan’s original version of “The Times They Are A-Changing,” we’re treated to a lengthy sequence chronically the back story to Watchman-verse. Moments that stand out are The Minutemen posing for the famous group photo, an alternative version of the classic V-Day photo moment in Time Square where it’s Silhouette kissing the girl instead of the sailor, Mothman being carried away by men in white coats, photographers shooting Dollar Bill’s dead body in the revolving door, young Rorshach watching as his mother shows out another customer, an altered archival shot of Kennedy shaking hands with Dr. Manhattan, Kennedy being shot in Dallas by The Comedian behind the grassy knoll, shots of the various superhero gatherings, and Nixon coming to power. The last shot of the titles sequence is the shot from the first trailer of protesters against the vigilantes and the
explosion that consumes the screen.
The titles end and now the detectives investigate Blake’s apartment. They see he was in great shape and that the window was particularly strong suggesting he may have been thrown out. They then find a photo of him with the president. They wonder if he was a spook. The camera then zooms out through the window and across the city. We somehow get to Rorshach down below discovering the smiley face pin and we hear Rorshach’s journal as he uses a Batman-like grappling hook gadget to quickly shoot up to the broken window and enters as he says the line from the trailer that is almost identical to the line in the book about politicians and everyone will call on him to save them and he’ll whisper, no.
Rorshach investigates the place and quickly finds photos of The Comedian with Sally and other clues that lead him to Blake’s closet. He finds a hollow back and finds The Comedian’s old mementoes. Somewhere around this point the scene ends as do the first 18 minutes.
Then to get a great audience reaction, we got an extra 20-30 second clip from later in the film. It’s the prison cafeteria scene. Rorshach is attacked and he throws the boiling hot water at the guy’s face. And as several guys try to hold him down, Rorshach says the classic line. I forget the exact words but it’s the “It’s not me that’s stuck in here with you! It’s you who’s stuck in here with me!” And that ends the footage we were shown. The actor they got playing Rorshach looks just like he looks in the book. Perfect casting.
I have to say that I was blown away by the footage. So far from what I’ve seen they’ve captured every detail from the book and have only added a few things that you could almost swear was in the book like the Silhouette V-Day kiss in Time Square or The Comedian’s assassination of Kennedy, which as I’ve just read seems to be only jokingly referenced in the book. My one concern is the length, at least in terms of what general audiences will put up with. After 18 minutes, we were only 3 scenes into the story plus a title sequence. Though to be fair, since they encapsulated so many moments of the history in the title sequence and get it over with early, they probably save a lot of time once the story gets going.
Then there’s all the supplementary material. I know content was made specifically for the DVD that won’t be in the film, or at least the theatrical version of the film, but I imagine some of the comic book with the comic book stuff is going to make it into film. I’ll be very interested to see how that gets incorporated. So in conclusion, I am looking forward to the film even more now.
If you use this, call me Dr. Manhattan.
then there's this from AntoniusFunk...
Hey Harry!
I have been attending the NYC comic con for the last couple of days and this morning was treated to an excellent panel on Watchmen/Friday the 13th/Terminator Salvation. While all three movies had cool things to show (all of them unseen before) the watchmen part of the panel was far outshining everything else. They showed us a clip of the first 18 minutes of the movie plus an additional minute or so of footage from later in the film. I am not sure how spoilerific you all want this kind of thing to be, but I'll just say what I saw. The movie starts with a television personality interviewing two guests about the looming threat of Russian Nuclear Armament, and the doomsday clock being moved to 5 minutes to midnight. It is suggested that this is a reaction to the USA having Dr. Manhattan as their ultimate weapon. Anyhow, the show pans out into the living room of the Comedian who is (after a moment) no longer entertained by the political debate. He switches channels a few times glossing over media of the time, makes himself a drink and settles down only to *BAM* his door being kicked in. Thus the "only a matter of time" line. What you don't see in the previews is the fight scene that follows which is fairly impressive. I for one had been skeptical that this movie would over do it on the slow motion (as about 90% of the trailer was in slo mo!) but Zack Snyder really seemed to use it sparingly and to emphasize either emotion or intense action. Otherwise, the fight was LIGHTNING fast in terms of movement but not in duration. He really gets the snot kicked out of him before being thrown from the window...after which we get the opening credits. They roll over Bob Dylan's "the times they are a changin" and feature great scenes like portraiture of the old and new minutemen, the assasination of JFK (by the comedian), a glimpse of a young Rorschach. After this it goes right into Rorschach finding the Comedian's blood-stained happyface pin on a storm dran, investigating his apartment and discovering his identity as the Comedian. This whole scene was overlaid with Rorschach talking/reading a page from his diary. The movie cut there, went to black and then skipped to a scene much later with Rorschach in prison. Jackie Earl Haley looks kind of amazing in this scene. He's just this little guy who seems eternally wound up right from the get go. Some guys start harassing him and pass along a shiv to kill him with but are thwarted by Rorschach's sweet fighting moves. He knocks one guy around a bit with his cafeteria tray then grabs some fry oil and pours it across the attacker's face. Screaming ensues and Rorschach is rushed by some guards while screaming "None of you seem to understand! It's not me who's locked in here with you...it's you that's locked in here with me!" Also, no freakin slo-mo this scene.
That's it. Pretty cool first glimpse of the movie which made me really want to see it. This looks like a fairly faithful adaptation, with the exception of the "squid monster" at the end (which Dave Gibbons today said "It's not even a squid! Sorry to disappoint all you cepelopod lovers out there.") and even that seems to be minor when framed within the medium. What i mean is this, and sorry to quote Dave Gibbons again but... "In the book the monster was like one big special effect at the end. In a movie full of special effects it seemed like it would lose it's impact and just be another effect." Given that he seemed actually pleased with the movie in totality, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Even without that same ending, this movie is poised to be amazing.
Hope you dig the info!
-Antoniusfunk
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cant wait
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Sounds awesome
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this is gonna be super neat!
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Chew it you faithless humps, CHEW IT!
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It's not just a "political show" that Blake is watching ... it's the ferchrissakes McLaughlin Group! Pat Buchanan and Eleanor Clift are even mentioned by name! This show has only been on for, like 20 years or so ... surely you've heard of it? You've gotta be SLIGHTLY interested in something that's not on G4, surely?
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appreciate it. not like i haven't read the book or anything.
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really? Is WATCHMEN actually going to not suck? For real?
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Those eighteen minutes just fly by the pacing is spot on. Right into the story. Loved Rorschaches line in the prison. My only complaint was there was too much slo mo when Comedian was fighting the intruder.
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I just hope it's not overused like in 300.
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Ohhhhh, goooood for you! And how was it? I hope it was fuckin’ good, because it’s useless now, isn’t it?
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Does whatever a Snyder can.
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I'm not sure why I want to read a second by second recap of the first 18 min when I can see it at at the theater in 30 days...people are odd.
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Messing with the lights? I hope not.
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10 minutes of footage means next to nothing.
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Feb 08, 2009 3:10:18 PM CST
Hint_of_Smegma, I don't think I should defrost my crow yet
by continentalop
Sorry to be a heretic against the One True Faith (mindless devotion to the Watchmen movie) but I still have yet to see anything that says this will be a great movie. Snyder’s entire career has been devoted to making mindless eye-candy films: the original Dawn of the Dead was both a horror movie and an intelligent indictment of our consumer culture and human selfishness, while Snyder's biggest accomplishment in his version was making zombies fast; the 300 was a cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo, and it's only amazing achievement was that the film someone was able to be both homophobic and yet still homoerotic. He doesn’t really have the track record that makes me think he can pull off a deep, intelligent deconstruction of the superhero mythos.
And despite how good the footage and clips might look I don’t fear that I will have to gobble down a black bird anytime soon. Snyder might be able to make individual clips or shots look faithful to the comic, but is he touching the nuances and the spirit of the Watchmen and successfully translating it to a different medium? If you look at separate clips and scenes from Brett Ratner’s Red Dragon you see what looks like a faithful adaptation of Thomas Harris’ book, which it was; it was also soulless and completely joyless, and lacked the suspense and dread of Silence of the Lamb.
I’m not saying that Snyder won’t be able to pull of this movie, I just think there is a good chance based on his track record that he has failed to adapt the Watchmen to film. And that is the opinion I am sticking with, despite all the cheerleading from people on this site, until the film is released and I am possibly proven wrong. Until then the crow stays in the freezer.
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Sounds great. I knew Snyder's gonna nail it.
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Fine insights, and concerns any smart reader/viewer would share. That's why I was so heartened by the footage shown yesterday: It seems Snyder might actually GET the nuances of the material. The new stuff in the credits montage could indeed have been excised from the material, given how well it supports Moore's idea that the arrival on the scene of superheroes jump-started so many cultural upheavals (including, in the case of Silhouette's brazenness, sexual politics).
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I meant "excised from the COMIC."
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Did anybody say anything about it? How does it look in the final footage???
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Unless someone's a big fan of both PBS and politics, they're not likely to know The McLaughlin Group from a hole in the wall.Bye-BYYYYYEEE!
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LOL indeed! I wish to know Buchanans views on nekkid Blue men.
They are showing the clps to build up the hype along with the virals. Sure most people on this site know about it but they are trying to break through to the mainstream by word of mouth I would guess.
Actually the thing that worried me of late was the "behind you" scene with Rorschach which was, from what we could see of it anyway, completely wasted. That had nothing to do with the subject matter or the squid or anything else. It was simply bad Moviemaking.
However at least they seem to have got Rorschachs "hot oil" scene right. I look forward to Big figure.
Personally I grow weary of those who always spam the Watchmen threads with "Snyder is a cock" or watchmen boxoffice "predictions" or virulent hatred because of squiddy as by now we've heard all the arguments and simply need to see the Movie.
And see the Movie I will and I'm fairly sure I won't be alone.
BTW there WAS a screening of an early cut of Watchmen some time ago and the verdict was pretty positive from what we were told. -
Intersting case that as Manhunter fucked with the books ending but was IMO the superior Movie. The Tooth Fairy was simply FAR more menacing in Manhunter which also just had far more "character" than Red Dragon.
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Liked your signoff, but you don't have to be a "big fan" of something to know it exists. Thinking that recognizing John McLaughlin makes one a "big fan" of politics or PBS is like telling one of the indie publishers at Comic Con that you're a big fan of sequential art because you know who Wolverine is.
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Quit the fuckin ass hype on this site, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK.
BRING ON T4
FUCKIN ASS -
we have a shadowy figure fighting with the comedian before he throws him out of the windows.right.
ok Mr Snyder thank you for clarifying to me,how fucking idiot you are.not only you disrespect the original artwork,you cant even manage to capture the atmosphere of even the first page from the comic.didnt u understand that it would give an impact of suprise and the unexpected to the audience ,if the first scence was just comedian thrown out of the window? which would make the film to start a more suspensful and mysterious atmosphere.but i guess its cooler like that way,with the blood stained smiley pin following him during his fall and all that.hey we need to sell toys too.dont forget that.
fraking amateur. -
was the squid the MacGuffin device in the comics story????????
jesus christ have Snyder even read the fucking GN,or just lookied at the pretty pictures?? -
Fuckin' punk-ass plant.
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...I believe this movie will in all likelihood kick ass, but to call the squid a MacGuffin is just wrong, as in not fucking anywhere near something that might be considered almost right-ish.
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Well, it was Dave Gibbons who called the squid a MacGuffin. But what does he know, right?
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Yeah and I suppose someone that draws anatomical drawings for medical textbooks should be regarded as a fucking doctor. Besides which, Gibbons stands to make a lot more money from this movie than he has from the GN over the last 20+ years. I'm not sure he can be trusted to be at all objective.
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Moore has long lauded Gibbons as far more than the mere illustrator of the project; he certainly considers the guy its "co-creator." And had you been at the panel, you would likely have been struck by how genuine the guy appears to be; I'm totally skeptical of these convention spin specials, but he seemed honestly enthused by the project without coming across as any sort of sellout.
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Feel free to tell him he's wrong. He only illustrated the comic and all.
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he has always praised all the movie adaptations of his works with Mr Moore.u see money talks.
But regardless his credibility,its sure as hell that the squid isnt a MacGuffin device.
whoever doesnt know what a macguffin is,he can just go to this link,and learn:
http://tinyurl.com/25rume
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it is not trivial for blake to have allowed himself to die...it fits with his foot at the bed "confession" to moloch
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it is not trivial for blake to have allowed himself to die...it fits with his foot at the bed "confession" to moloch
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...is now treated like Citizen Kane. Its a fucking zombie movie. You want to say its commentary on consumerism just because zombies are fucking riding escalators? Good lord geeks need to get their heads out of their asses and spend some time with real literature and art.
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I hope the movie kicks as, I hope everyone is happy after seeing the movie. I hope that it makes a huge profit. I hope both studios get what they deserve. I hope fans of the comic realize that both the best and the worst movie makers take liberties with their source material - sometime the end result is good and sometimes not. I am glad that the comic has so many fans and I hope the movie creates more. i hope the movie is compelling enough to get my butt in the theatre, but ifit is not, I'll buy the dvd and watch it. I hope that comic fans who hate the movie would direct their displeasure towards something more deserving of hate. No one is forcing you to see the movie and it's existence doesn't diminish the quality of the comic.
Now f-off the lot of you! LOL -
A MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device that motivates the characters or advances the story.
its obvious from the above,that the macguffin in the watchmen story,is the Comedian's murder.
The squid is a bit difficult to motivate the story,since its releaved almost at the END OF THE FUCKING STORY. -
Its merely a means to an end. The end is the same. That is his point. The cause of that end is irrelevant.
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day of the tentacle.
one of the best adventure games ever. -
the original dotd was a commentary on consumerism because the zombified masses headed for the mall they did it by instinct
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That's not to say he didn't contribute much to it, but why is it that Watchmen is the only brilliant work of Dave Gibbon that springs to mind while Alan Moore has done numerous obvious others? Watchmen without Dave Gibbons probably wouldn't have been quite as good....Watchmen without Alan Moore would not exist.
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2 percent of Watchmen = 2,164 times more than any of us here will ever accomplish in our lives.
BTW, at Comic Con, Gibbons assured that he will NOT help promote any potential Watchmen sequels or prequels, and that Snyder wasn't likely to be involved, either. Didn't sound like a guy who was wholly interested in sucking the corporate teat. -
another one great adventure game,with gibbons artwork.
it was accompanied with a mini comic,illustrated by gibbons himseld.damn i miss those days. -
is spectacular...so watchmen isnt the only classic he helped to create but he has sold out here...not sure i can blame the man...they thew alot of money and alot of work his way
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They need to make a comeback. I think Monkey Island 3 was the last one I played. Mind you, it did kind of suck.
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what about the existing prequel videogame,the animated comic,and the animated movie version of the Black Freighter.arent these parto fthe corporate teat?
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Black Freighter and the motion comic, as far as I'm aware, both adapt material that is already in the book, and the videogame is based on material that is referenced in the boo--and was previously created from an RPG by none other than Moore himself. Gibbons was talking about feature films created from whole cloth. But I hope you get a good workout grasping at those straws.
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"Book," not "boo." And created "for" an RPG, not "from." Damn keys.
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"Judas"? Oh, come on. Get some perspective. Gibbons is totally right that the squid would not have worked in the context of a film -- and if we're all being honest, it's a device that only narrowly works in the book in the first place. (It's OK to consider Watchmen less than perfect, folks, It really is.)
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Dumbass! It's the pointless thing that HE uses to motivate the world into doing what he wants (moving away from impending armageddon).And, by the way, a Maguffin is distinct from an actual event - such as the Comedian's murder - as a plot motivator. See also "top secret weapon/invention/device."Moron.
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That's what happened at the end of David Hayter's 2006 script, and while most of it was faithful to the comic, that was one of the deviations I had a problem with.
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The Watchmen is, essentially, a mystery about the creation of a Macguffin (sorry about the misspelling earlier).
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I see what you're saying but calling the squid a MacGuffin implies that it really doesn't matter what it is. It didn't have to be a giant squid, I'll grant you that, but it DID have to appear alien (Manhattan doesn't count for reasons already explained way too many times) and it DID have to be created by artists and the like for it to work. Snyder's ending does not meet these criteria.
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Don't you have anything better to do than troll Watchmen talkbacks with your reactionary dickwaddery? Like, say, applying ointment to your undoubtedly countless cold sores and genital warts, or hollowing out some dried-up, flabby meat-taco for a few bucks? Stick to porn, douche; they tolerate dickwads a lot better than geeks.
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The Comedian fighting back indicates he has life left in him. Which is NOT in the comic-book. He's utterly spent with what he finds out, yet doesn't tell anyone because he KNOWS it makes sense. That's the whole point of his character - that the plot is something that sickens him, yet he understand that it has to be done and accepts that he has to die. If he's fighting back, then he doesn't understand it and his subsequent arc makes no fucking sense.
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Why doesn't Manhattan count as alien? He's something new, something feared, something no-one knows quite how to control. In terms of the original comic, it actually makes PERFECT sense to substitute the Manhattan for the Squid. In some ways, it actually makes MORE sense.
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Makes no sense. He's an American symbol for one thing. For another, how would that bring people together? Russia is seconds from bombing America, why would someone beating them to it make Russia repentant?
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It's a foreign construct attacking us. There's no 'he did this because' about it - no bias. More of them could come. So the world unites against a different threat - not a symbol of one particular country.
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You call Kurt a troll? Your name suggests you blow Lost constantly, so fuck off to that thread and let the grown-ups discuss Watchmen.
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I'm a big fan of the Squid. But I still say Manhattan going rogue (or rather the FEAR of it) is just as effective - PLOT-wise.
And sure, you can wax poetical about the deeper meanings of the Squid as it pertains to the medium and superhero-comics etc etc, but at then end of the day, as a pure deus ex machina (which is in effect what it was created to be), the perceived threat of Dr. Manhattan going rogue is just as effective, and even brings its own, new deeper meanings. I will always love the squid, but if its the difference between Watchmen being filmable or not (and I get Snyder's argument here), then I say cut the Squid!
Oh, and also I think "Cut the Squid" should now officially replace "Kill your darlings". -
Doesn't add up when he's got an over five minute sequence where he takes sentences from the comic-book and creates montage images out of them. HE! DOES! NOT! GET! IT! The only thing he understands is how to visually pair them up - he does understand how to translate the meaning of the piece.
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I think the way it plays out in the Movie is that Veidt blows up multiple cities around the world using Manhatton's blue energy signature or some bullshit like that. Snyder obviously believes that plugs the plotholes but obviously if Moscow were to go up in flames the Russians ain't gonna wait around for the news reports before they retaliate. Veidt would pretty much bring about the armageddon he's hoping to avoid.
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This 'oh, it's one more special effect' concept is bullshit. What, so you're telling me the studio will balk at a squid but be okay with another CGI Manhattan? Yeah, horseshit.
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The Russians would bomb the shit out of America immediately. In the comic-book, both sides ARE looking for an excuse to bomb the other.
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...drafts of the script, and I get the feeling from a few things I've seen online that it hasn't deviated much from that in the final version.
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That sound is my brain exploding in geek-rage. It's not an actual explosion, no - it was changed at the last moment to my finger being broken. It's the same effect, really? No meaning has been lost.
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If they cut that montage AND the fight, then we've gained eight minutes. The squid takes 30? Cut the backstory for Kovacs. Then you've got a good sixteen minutes cut.
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Christ you came across as a cock. Comic book artists are generally regarded as co-creators, they're not the equivilant of "drawing medical pictures".
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that is the entire point of the squid. As Adolph Hitler said (which Ozymandias quotes in the comic), "The more outrageous the lie, the more likelihood that people will believe it." Hence, having a giant, alien, psychic squid kill millions; it is so preposterous that people will have to believe it.
Personally, I don't know if the Squid is essential or not. It is a film adaptations, so obviously some things will have to be lost or changed. The questions is, will Snyder try to present Dr. Manhattan killing millions as a lie so preposterous that people will believe it, or does he change the very nature of the threat and instead go with the idea of all the world having to band together against a much superior force. I guess we will have to wait and see...
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"the 300 was a cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo" Thus is ANYTHING that promotes self reliance and actually standing up for for something branded by modern fat, lazy and stupid Americans.
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What the fuck are you talking about? All I was saying is that Gibbons' did not require an absolute and total understanding of every level of the book in order to do his job effectively. From what I understand, Moore provides extremely detailed panel descriptions to the artists he works with. Now please explain to me exactly how I insulted "artists everywhere"?
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Because he isn't one? I don't know, maybe it's me, is that a trick question? Seriously, anyone who equates Manhattan going rogue with the Squid and it's context is an imbecile. There's just no amount of bullshit that can rationalize it.
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Yeah, you're speaking English, asshole. You're also throwing around a college freshman's idea of "meta" art to protect an idea that (as I recall) wasn't even worked out when the story began being published, and which (more important) doesn't fit tonally with the rest of the book. Also, if the squid works largely as a commentary on the comics form, then what utility would it have in a MOVIE? (Which leads to a larger can of worms ... what would be the point of a totally reverent interpretation of the most IRreverent graphic novel ever?) Oh, and it doesn't matter if it's a squid or not -- the whole "banding together against a common foe" is an utterly naive notion that's the one serious flaw in Moore's otherwise masterpiece. Nobody in the story questions the aphorism "The enemy of my enemy is my friend," when history has shown again and again that the enemy of my enemy is my other enemy. Finally, for the guy who thinks the movie is going to suck because Blake is smoking a cigar on the grassy knoll: Get help immediately, or at least a hobby.
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I think I read 8% or something like that
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What is your nationality? Just wondering, so I can insult you properly and accurately.
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While I understand the appeal of Laconophilia, I wonder how ia society that promotes eugenics, slavery (the Spartans were the only Greeks who enslaved other Greeks), fanatical zealotry, and waging war for the sake of waging war a society that we "fat, lazy and stupid Americans" should idolize? Pretty much everything that makes America great is an anathema to the Spartans, and vise versa.
I am not saying you can't make a movie about the Spartans, but don't try to push fascism, racism and sadism down my throat and call it noble. -
The whole POINT behind Watchmen is that the plan ONLY works for a limited time. It'll bring humanity together for a while, but then we drift apart. It IS a naive notion, but maybe if you'd read Manhattan's final lines in the comic-book you would know that Moore wasn't saying 'we'll live in bliss' at all.
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Oh, so that's the "whole point" behind Watchmen? The entire book? Silly me; I thought the point was to deconstruct superheroes and use them as a metaphor for America's role in the 20th century. Whatevs. But as I recall, isn't the implication that the plan does nor hold solely based on The Frontiersman's receipt of Rorschach's diary? In other words, the IDEA behind the plan was perfectly sound ... which it isn't.
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"not," not "nor."
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No, as Manhattan says 'Nothing lasts forever.' They're merely delaying what was already going to happen. The world being united against an Alien thread only lasts so long as everyone is on the same page. Whether the plan gets out or not is irrelevent - humanity would end up arguing pretty soon over who was going to lead the race to take out the Aliens.
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I spent the last few days at NYCC too and I was really looking forward to this panel. The movie looks like it was taken straight from the novel itself. I cannot wait to see the rest of it.
Met Dave Gibbons today and the man really and truly appreciates his fans. -
I know this will be read as blasphemy, but the "squid" is my least favorite part of the book.
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Good pacing. Also: I pondered on it for a while, but the squid would be very confusing for non-reading audiences (99% of them). It would require a LOT of explaining and exposition (the island), and people would still not get it. It's not that it won't fit the film, stupid people (which is 99% of morons out there) will not get it.
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...because people just don't remember what comic book films USED to be like that we're here arguing over semantics. Then I'll pop in Spawn for a double feature reminder and thank the heavens those days are over. You guys can continue arguing over whether or not comedian fights back, or whether the squid matters or not, and if Rorschache speaks every line to your liking.
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Akira Kurosawa would have cut that one scene of the guy falling to the ground in The Seven Samurai if he knew Snyder was abusing it to the point of ludicrousness like this.
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A fair enough interpretation, but I still think it's silly for everyone involved to think the plan would even work in the short term. To each his own. And to knowthyself: EXACTLY.
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Fuck you, Knowles.
Fucking moron.
You suck. -
WATCHMEN and TERMINATOR are the summer MUST SEE flicks for me. Then I'll look forward to AVATAR and having my eYebaLLs fcUKed.
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Buchanan: Look John, Washington is eager to interject Manhattan into every global crisis from Vietnam to the Middle East. The fact is that he's a puppet of Israeli imperialism so long as the Republicans are in office. If the Democrats were in, he would be some sort of fantastic, giant squid, terrifying the world and making us bow down to the Soviets in some sort of accelerated glastnost.
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All the better!
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I just filled the cup.
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First of all, people calling other people idiots should be pretty sure they actually know their grammar, or they'll just end up looking foolish. Mixing up its and it's, or there, their and they're while calling someone else an ignoramus must be pretty embarrassing.
Secondly, nobody here has actually seen the finished film, and yet purists still try to force everyone else to explain why removing the squid could work. There are plenty of ways that it could work, and hopefully Snyder's chosen one of them. From what Snyder's said in all his interviews and production diaries its fairly obvious that he sees Manhattan as the main character of the story. Making him the squid-replacement certainly changes the story, but by shifting the focus onto the man-made Superman/God, there's a chance for the story to actually become more interesting. Purists just need to get over the fact that things have been changed, and definitely need to stop equating different with bad. -
Calling someone a fuckiwt or a asshole or something makes you look fucking stupid. End of.
And my rant wasn't really referring to you Kurt, but even still, there's fun discussion of what could be versus what is versus what isn't, and then there's just whiny bitchiness. It's my experience that comic fans can't have one without it descending to the other. -
The problem is that you are a cowardly, ineffectual, pseudo-intellectual for whom personal responsibility equates to fascism, national pride racism and thinks that his notion of ethics is a cast in stone truism that can be applied to any culture or time in history.
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One of my favorite things is all the little touches that Snyder is giving the viewers. The dvd should be packed with goodies galore. I will be there. So far, it is looking good.
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Feb 08, 2009 9:55:03 PM CST
I'm excited for this movie & it's extended DVD.
by stereotypical evil archer
I'll probably end up owning 3 versions of this one. Poor pocketbook.
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nice to see you whine again. I barely keep track of talkbackers, but I still remember you whining about Johnny 5 / Wall-E. I think I'll never understand what's the appeal of "flame wars" to someone like you. Do you actually *like* to bitch? Do you take pride from it? Alas, the world will never know (at least I hope so!)
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The voice of Bill O'Reilly's tiny little member.
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Feb 08, 2009 11:55:32 PM CST
Lots of excellent pro- and anti-squid tomfoolery above...
by biggusdickus
...but unfortunately, the only mental image I'm able to process right now is oceanic86's mom choking on KurtLockwood's brown trout.Disturbing...
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I just wanted to say that you missed what 300 was about. Yes, it's a "cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo." It's supposed to be. The entire movie is about the last few minutes, where you find out that you haven't been watching the story of what happened. You've been listening to the speech that was given to the troops to rally them. It's propaganda, and it's intended to make the audience question that validity of wartime propaganda, regardless of how good it might make you feel about your countrymen who have died.
NOW, it's important to note that none of that is Snyder's doing. He didn't write the graphic novel, but he did do an excellent job of bringing it to the screen. For those of us who noticed what was going on, it was a very different film.
Will he do a good Watchmen? I, for one, no longer care. Just what I've seen in the trailers is more than I dared hope for when I heard there was going to be a Watchmen movie. I was dead-convinced that this was going to suck, and that we've seen as much as we have and it's still good... I can put up with an awful lot right now. I'll note the flaws. I'll mourn the squid. But in the end, I'll be happy with most of this film if what I've seen is representative.
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You know exactly what you said. I know what you said. And it's up there for anybody to read. It's YOU who needs to raise his intellectual sights a bit, since your every argument is based on your single "genius" discovery that Watchmen sends up comic-book tropes. So glad you've had more than two decades to figure that out. What are you going to do for an encore? And BTW, my "attitude" in and of itself smokes your first-semester navel-gazing five Sundays out of February. Now shove your belligerent, middlebrow purism up your fucking ass and let the big people talk.
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Wow, it is amazing you were able to discern the real me just from a couple of post and from the fact I did not like a movie (a film a number of other people also didn't like, including a number of historians and critics). Man, I am just amazed that are able to figure out that I am a coward and a pseudo-intellectual. Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you.
The thing is brobdingnag, the idea of calling someone names on this site is just pathetic, because A) the other person is just a faceless person protected by anonymity and distance, B) you can never prove or disprove what you say about someone else, so if you or I call the other person a coward how can we disprove it? So it is pointless for me to insult you and say that you are just a cowardly blowhard, who tries to talk tough but is most likely a feeble wimp who has probably never even been in a fight, let alone won one.
But I will say I can take a couple of guesses about you considering that you just blew a gasket over my opinion about a movie. That tells me you are very insecure and very shallow minded. People who are secure about their beliefs don’t panic when someone dares to disagree with them. They present a counter argument, instead of just jumping to pathetic, childish little insult. But I guess that a counter argument would imply you have something intelligent to say, instead of just shooting off a bunch of simple slogans and who thinks that Nazi Germany was a country based on personal responsibility, national pride and by the standards of the 1940s was an ethical country.
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Is Harry handing out stimulus checks to TBers now? Where's MINE???
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Up until now, I have not been happy about the squid situation.
But I finally gave in and read the last few pages of Hayter's script. If nothing was changed from what I read, it's GREAT.
My fear was that Manhattan was going to be blamed for the ending. Perhaps I missed something, but beyond the obvious fake cancer thing with his prior associates, that was not the case.
It seems the squid was just traded for something a little more plausible, but the tone was exactly the same. -
I am sorry but I disagree. To quote Kurt Vonnegut, “You are what you pretend to be.” A film that pretends to be the presentation of another group’s propaganda is just that, another group’s propaganda. You can claim in defense that the message it is delivering is something you don’t endorse, but doesn’t the film still disseminates the information and try to influence the viewers just as much as a film that actually endorsed those opinions? If Leni Riefenstahl had made “Triumph of the Will” as an example of potential Nazi propaganda instead of as actual propaganda, would it have been any less effective or damaging?
But while I disagree with you I give you credit for presenting an argument as to why you don’t think 300 was bad. Maybe bropdingnag can learn a thing or two from you about how to conduct an intelligent debate.
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I smell PLANT!### A V A T A R - FUCKING YOUR EYEBALLS IN 2009 ###
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The Comedian's murder is not the macguffin in Watchmen - it's the inciting incident.
Just thought you should know. -
It's also worth noting that it's perfectly valid to dislike 300 because of poor acting, monotonous action, laughable score, uneven tone and occasionally dodgy effects. Arguments about racism, militarism and homophobia/eroticism are kinda superfluous.
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Instead of a squid, it should've been an octopus. Much more meaningful.
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the what??
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I was wondering if someone would point that out!
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with collectivist word parsers whose goal is moral judgment based on emotion. Reason is not your currency, victim status is.
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pride and fear being the most obvious. A little tip to the quasi-fascists like brob - praising a film that fetishes a culture who killed disabled children only shows your narcissitic double standard.
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brob's fantasy fascist kingdom for an edit button.
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Its just a highly stylized action fantasy film. Get over it. Yes its machismo fueled mayhem and I for one loved every minute of it. If I want smart I'll watch Bladerunner. If I want action I'll watch 300.
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What don't you fucking understand?
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Just cause it's a cocktail of bigotry, mindless violence, and sophomoric machismo doesn't make it bad - or at least unknowing. That's the key - were they having fun being outrageous? I think so.
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THINK for one fucking second
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doesn't mean it fits the book or makes sense, or works. I'm not saying it doesn't either. But just cause it references this or that or comments on this or that or whatever, that doesn't mean it WORKS. It's a comic book, not a term paper - execution counts.
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That nickname is the epitome of un-coolness.. Fuck the people who think the interdimmension being is a mcguffin, and fuck everyone who thinks its cool to fundamentally change Watchmen
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in some countries, squid is a delicacy.
now, go eat some mystery meat that's been preserved in rancid fat.
that's the new mcguffin, bitches. -
Feb 09, 2009 9:43:28 AM CST
Dave Gibbons and The Cephalopod are fucking done professionally
by spyguy
Since Alan Moore is too busy reading LITTLE LULU comics in his bunker, it's up to Dave Gibbons to be main consultant regarding the original source material. And if Gibbons doesn't have a problem with it, I don't have a problem with it.
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It just rolls all over the city and kills everyone.
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...is the new MCMLXXVI"Damn You James Cameron!"
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snyder should release an alternate cut of the movie that is nothing but four and half hours of squid footage.
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They are afraid to loose the 3 fanboys posting here who will see the movie anyway.
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Maybe I’m the last horse to cross the finish line on this, but check out what I just noticed:
If you go to see a midnight showing of Watchmen then you have 3-6-9, at 12… The quadrants of a clock face.
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If you like 300, more power to you. I was listing the reasons why I dislike 300. It is a subjective personal opinion. Some people consider Death Wish as racist, fascist film – I see it as a cathartic vigilante film and study how violence and the desire for revenge dwells in the heart of every man. To each their own.
I don't care if you disagree with me, and I respect the fact that you can have different opinion. What I can't stand is personal attacks against someone just because they don’t have the same opinion as you. To those people out there who do that: Sorry you are so inadequate that you require everyone to conform to your narrow viewpoint, because if they don’t your fragile world and pathetic ego will be shattered.
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Bit gay though, wasn't it?
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My prediction of the "new" ending of this movie is that Dr. Manhattan is made to go nuclear by Ozymandis. Ozy probably uses a machine on him making him loose cohesion and destroy New York. Thus the world turns on the evil that nuclear arms/research has created. Manhattan melting down would be similar to the Squids psychic blast in Times Square. We'll see.
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...way to steal an existing login you fucker.
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What is it with you fxckin nob jockeys,can`t you come up with something all by your selves,or do you need a big person to help you???
Retards!
Oh and anyone that has read the novel and loves it,will no doubt be giving this a miss...
Adrien Veidt looking like a 25yr old bum boy in this movie...wtf? -
Would Kubrick have cut the squid? The answer is; would he fuck. He'd have had some balls, respected his audience and followed it through to it's proper conclusion. I find this "audiences are to dumb to comprehend" argument condescending and weak. I suppose none of you making that argument are gonna be opposed to the inevitable castration of the AKIRA Hollywood remake either, because that ending is even higher up the what-the-fuck meter. I expect to see you all back here explaining to me exactly why Tetsuo's freakout "just wouldn't work" in a live action movie intended for general release.
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You people...
What's wrong with trusting the source material? Assuming concepts are too difficult for the mainstream audience is an exercise in futility.
"The audience won't understand the squid!" Oh really? Just like they won't understand a 50 ft tall glowing-blue flying man-god disintegrating people? Or... laser swords and a "force" that crazy space-monks use, or a guy beating up criminals in a bat suit? Or an alien orphan flying around in his red and blue underwear? For fuck's sake.....give people some credit. Why spend a hundred million dollars and do 90% justice to the original material just to blue-ball us on the ending?
Yea I'm going to see it, yea it's going to be (mostly) great, but it's just a silly thing to change for no goddamn reason. -
...discussing your differing interpretations of the symbolism and inherent meaning of various plot devices within the graphic novel, and get back to calling each other doo-doo and pee-pee names.
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The squid was cut because it was stupid, not because movie audiences are stupid. I read the graphic novel and loved every second of it...until that idiotic ending. Almost makes the end of "Unbreakable" look like pure genius. If you polled a hundred real script writers, you'd get back "cut the squid" every single time. Granted, whatever they put in its place may be just as retarded, but no Watchmen movie could ever be made without rewriting the ending.
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I'm sick of explaining this shit over and over again. Read the fucking talkback, or any of the dozen other ones for an explanation of why you and your post can go fuck themselves. Do you honestly believe the book would be as highly regarded as it is if the ending didn't work? Would Time magazine put it in the list of the greatest books ever written if the ending didn't work? Do you honestly believe that, or do you think it's possible that you may have missed something?
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Fuck! What the fuck is it wit you?
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I don't think the squid (or fabricated inter-dimensional being if you want to be pedantic) is a macguffin. It doesn't motivate the characters (it appears at the end) and it is not the object around which the plot revolves. I'd say that Watchmen doesn't have a macguffin.
The crystal skull is a macguffin
The glowy suitcase is a macguffin
The maltese falcon is a macguffin
The rubics cube from transformers is a macguffin.
I'd even say that the One Ring is a macguffin.
The squid... not so macguffiny.
Oh... and ominus? The inciting incident is the event which sets the story in motion. -
I don't think the squid (or fabricated inter-dimensional being if you want to be pedantic) is a macguffin. It doesn't motivate the characters (it appears at the end) and it is not the object around which the plot revolves. I'd say that Watchmen doesn't have a macguffin.
The crystal skull is a macguffin
The glowy suitcase is a macguffin
The maltese falcon is a macguffin
The rubics cube from transformers is a macguffin.
I'd even say that the One Ring is a macguffin.
The squid... not so macguffiny.
Oh... and ominus? The inciting incident is the event which sets the story in motion. -
...looks like a lot of people woke up on the wrong side of my cock this morning.
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New ending illustrated by Dave Gibbons:
http://i43.tinypic.com/34qk669.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/rado9s.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2w54mqs.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/15e71c3.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2884jmu.jpg -
Simply registering for the talk back under an already very famous character name doesn't give you dibs on the name. When you scoop a story, you can call yourself whatever you want.
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Manhattan/Laurie don't appear in the Nixon war room. They appear in Manhattan as shown in the trailers (sorry for the camera flash but that's the best I could do).
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Registering under an already very famous character name gives you at least as many dibs as being one of a few thousand people who saw a presentation based on a book you yourself have not yet finished, and not recognizing real-world players who are identified in said presentation by name. Some "scoop."
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stop using the Kubrick argument you fucking tool! Kubrick was the king of cutting original parts of the novels he adapted for the screen. because cinema and literature are two different mediums. Fuck some of you people on here are stupid
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Terrible ending, it's true. Fucking grotesque blaming Dr Manhattan, but it's like I said, the general audiences would not get the squid, even if Ozymandias used a puppet show to explain.
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"He falls in slow motion with the smiley face pin right behind him and then both hit the ground"
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..is mind boggling. I think people just want to complain. Its too easy to notice that Snyder just wiped out NYC in a film post 9/11. We are talking about a world where they had to cut the Spiderman TEASER because people were too sensitive to seeing the towers afterwards. Remember the ending to Fight Club? Remember how mind blowing it was? Snyder is basically going to do that to a wide audience on a massive scale...and NO ONE finds that incredible? Or are we going to keep bitching about a giant special effect? Which if you ask me is just as boring as an explosion.
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The genius that is known as the 'Swollen Goiter of God' nailed this over at Corona. So I quote him - "If 300 was a person, it would be Kid Rock."
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