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| #38 | 1/28/09 | #7 |
(Click title to go directly to the review)
FINAL CRISIS #7
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #130
SCOTT PILGRIM VS. THE UNIVERSE (Vol. 5)
WHAT IF: SECRET WAR…”WHAT IF DR DOOM KEPT THE BEYONDER’S POWERS?” #1
MISTER X: CONDEMED #2
MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA #3
HEATHENTOWN #1
AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE #21
Raiders of the Long Box presents Hostess Ads!
Big Eyes For the Cape Guy presents THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS
CHEAP SHOTS!
FINAL CRISIS #7
Writer: Grant Morrison
Art: Doug Mahnke (pencils), Tom Kguyen, Drew Geraci, Christian Alamy, Norm Rapmund, Rodney Ramos, Doug Mahnke, & Walden Wong (inks)
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewers: The League of @$$Holes
The moon weeps as Darkseid gets in Turpin’s pants.
God bullets fired from the gun of Kirby shatter the illusions
Of shackling continuity for a new dawn of infinite confusion.
God bullets fired from the gun of Kirby shatter the illusions
Of shackling continuity for a new dawn of infinite confusion.
OPTIMOUS DOUCHE (OD): Lesson learned: back-up drive. You pay a 1$ a Gig these days or less. They connect via USB and require little to no configuring. This way when main machine fails, all your data is outside the box.SLEAZY G (SLEAZY): What the FUCK? And for THIS I spent 28 FUCKING DOLLARS?!? NOT COUNTING TIE-INS?!? For the money this series and the crossovers and the tie-ins cost me, I coulda had one helluva bottle of scotch on my shelf. Thanks for nothing, ASSHOLES!
JINXO: And, weird as it sounds, over the last year as an experiment I actually tried watching some opera. Trying to expand my horizons. Whatever. Mostly still don’t care for opera although I found a couple that were okay. But the thing is, none of the operas I’ve seen have ever resorted to the sort of scattershot storytelling used in FINAL CRISIS. Between acts they might skip tons of time but, you know what, right off the bat they’ve got someone up there belting out a song that brings you up to speed on exactly where you are in the plot and what’s going on. My issue with opera is still just the style of the singing but looking at it from a storytelling standpoint the best operas are pretty bulletproof in terms of presenting a solid well thought out plot. That statement just makes me laugh. I should try that the next time I want to try some bullshit approach that may or may not work: I’ll reference another artistic medium my audience is likely unfamiliar with as a reference point. “I decided to write my current story with all the word balloons assigned to the wrong characters. I’m trying to bring to comics the essence of the experimental dance work done by the Ballet Ruse.” Instant license to do whatever you want and sound intelligent while actually half-assing it and slacking off. Wow, he IS a genius.
OD: Morrison also stated that he didn’t want to write FINAL CRISIS in the conventional sense, but rather more like an opera. Here’s the thing, though: operas have something called music. So when the libretto or the song lyrics take poetic license in conveying the complete story, the music is in place to fill in the gaps. After I read this nugget of wisdom I tried rereading FINAL CRISIS with several different types of music in the background; I started with Fleetwood Mac and by issue 7 I was on Phillip Glass. Nope, nothing worked. The story still doesn’t make a lick of sense.ROCK-ME AMODEO (ROCK-ME): And such…(with regards to Balloon Man, I think Morrison and Robin Hitchcock had to have been drug buddies…they both write the same way, but least Robin had the Egyptians to balance him out…)
Ryan McLelland: I enjoyed the whole series...but I enjoy all crossovers. I know this was hyped up as they 'be all end all' and even though it didn't...it entertained me. Shit doesn't have to happen forever to make me happy - it makes me happy just to see a whole bunch of stuff happening. An easy fan to please I guess...but as I abhor most mainstream comics in general, I'm not sure why I DO like crossovers so much. It did pale in comparison to SECRET INVASION - but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
Darkened calculus suffocates hope;
Salvation in face painting gives purpose
To elementary school art teachers at last.
Salvation in face painting gives purpose
To elementary school art teachers at last.
OD: Morrison stated in a review on another site I won’t name here that “surely part of the fun of comics includes following stories across titles? If you like comics, what’s so awful about buying another one to see what happens next? And if you don’t want to buy it, don’t bother. Do something else. Buy cigarettes or booze or bananas. I don’t know!” However, FC didn’t cross into the main DC titles; it had no impact on them whatsoever. All throughout this supposed event, there were three continuities going on: the Morrison Universe, the Johns Universe and finally everyone else. Sure there were a multitude of subtitles that flew under the CRISIS banner, but I will hold to the fact they were far more comprehensible than the main event. SLEAZY: Ah, but he did a lot of work without the Egyptians too, and sometimes got a bit more unhinged as a result. Haven't seen him live in like half a decade or so, tho--who knows by now?
STONES THROW (STONE):Both SECRET INVASION and FINAL CRISIS chose to tell their last issues through flashbacks. I think that says more about the ridiculous levels of expectation attached to modern day events by both creative teams and fans than any well-thought out story choice. With FINAL CRISIS, I thought the quick cuts style worked great for establishing a mood of tension and foreboding doom earlier on in the series, but to keep that style for the epic conclusion? Morrison needed to allow some breathing room and space for things to come to a head and explain themselves, but he did just the opposite.
AMBUSH BUG (BUG): The problems with FINAL CRISIS can be boiled down to two facts: Morrison is not a team player and DC editorial didn't do their job managing Morrison. Had editorial pulled together a FINAL CRISIS summit and gotten everyone on board so that their books could be effected by, tie into, and reflect the magnitude of FINAL CRISIS this would give everyone a starting point and allow for a more coherent and relevant miniseries that could have had epic effects and after effects.
SUPERHERO: Shit, man...I gotta get to my shop for my books...OD: We were also given the promise by the DC marketing machine that FINAL CRISIS would change everything, very much like the first CRISIS. So here we are at the very end and I truly have to wonder: what the hell changed? The multiverse is back, but that technically happened in 52. The Monitors are no more, but we only met this dissected version of them a year ago; sad, but again I don’t care.
VROOM: My brother just picked up a new computer to replace the one that shorted out. However, the quote we got from the local shop to restore all our old data was $120. Since most of the data was mine, and since my brother doesn't care about any of the crap he had, and since I don't even have $120 to my name... Is that a good deal, or a ripoff?
Horsedogs ride the night,
Their battle armor under a red son,
A crimson beacon to warn the talking kitty cats
That cough hair balls of justice.
Their battle armor under a red son,
A crimson beacon to warn the talking kitty cats
That cough hair balls of justice.
OD: If this series didn’t leave enough of a bad taste in my mouth, this final remark from Morrison surely did: “of course I’m aware of a perpetual and chronic discontent from a particular jaded minority on the internet but I try to overlook their constant expressions of dissatisfaction on the grounds that it’s depressing and often personally abusive.” I won’t get personal here, because sir you have delivered some fantastic tales over the years and I thank you. However, I will say that the discontent is not coming from the jaded minority, but rather the comic book fan majority. I have yet to find a positive review of the series as a whole. The fact that this was DCs best-selling title of ‘08 is more a testament to marketing mumbo-jumbo and nostalgia than quality storytelling. Also, let’s not forget that SECRET INVASION almost doubled the number of orders for FINAL CRISIS. I know first hand the harsh words of critics can sting, but these critics are also fans that feed the DC cash machine so it can sign your paychecks. At times, harsh words make for a better product.BOTTLEIMP (IMP): The sad thing about FINAL CRISIS is that there are some genuinely good ideas sprinkled through the series--the New Gods reincarnating through possession of human hosts (though Marvel played with that idea over a decade ago with Apocalypse burning through his host bodies much in the same way that Darkseid does in FC), Morrison's take on Kirby's enigmatic Anti-Life Equation (which I know infuriated a lot of readers, but if it's an "equation," then a mathematical explanation makes a lot of sense), and probably the best sequence of the series, Mr. Tawny the Talking Tiger kicking Kalibak's ass. But these sparse moments are overwhelmed by the lack of coherent storytelling that ultimately brings FINAL CRISIS crashing down around itself. FINAL CRISIS is like watching a student film at an art school film festival--you sit there for an hour, not understanding anything that's happening on screen, feeling no emotions save boredom (becoming increasingly tinged with frustration), and when it's finally over the student auteur gets up on the stage and tells the audience what you were supposed to "get" from his masterpiece, and you're angry because you wasted an hour of your life watching pretentious bullshit.
SLEAZY: Morrison's officially in the same group with Bendis for me as of now: he comes up with good ideas, he talks a good game, and his execution is fucking awful. Morrison shouldn't be let near another mainstream book fucking EVER after this goddamned three-years-in-the-making abortion of an event.OD: Either way you are paying for time. Personally I would just move the data over. Putting an old drive in a new machine is going to be a recipe for disaster at some time down the road. Hard drives fail a lot. Yeah $120 is steep, but you need the guy's equipment and expertise. Plus 120 is way cheaper than Geek Squad that starts you off at a $200 minimum just to look at the box.
BUG: Because DC let Morrison do whatever he wanted, because he was allowed to write and rewrite his scripts, because Morrison was not communicating to editorial, leaving editorial to tell the rest of the books to write filler issues until Morrison is done, DC went from a major player to a complete and utter, unreadable mess. Aside from a few titles, their entire line is in need of a reboot and it's all because editorial didn't have the balls to step in and do their job and make an egotistical and deranged writer play ball with others.
Boobies and boots,
A Marvel versus an El.
If only they didn’t fly,
Then Jello their battle would be bathed in.
A Marvel versus an El.
If only they didn’t fly,
Then Jello their battle would be bathed in.
OD: When I tackled reviews for this series, I stated repeatedly that I didn’t hate the FINAL CRISIS story. For true fans of DC, Morrison resurrected enough forgotten lore to keep even the most fervent of fanboys’ appetites whetted throughout. However, now that all is said and done, I think I did hate it. I’m not sure, because fuck if I can tell you what actually happened. Also, until my dying day I will hold to my belief that this book would not be receiving this amount of scrutiny if it was called something other than CRISIS.STONE: The New Gods, which anyone would have thought was the center of the story from previous issues, barely got a resolution. That might work fine when the writer has it all planned out in his head, but the reader needs events to be paid off for a satisfying conclusion. Couple that with the way that, instead of a summative confrontation between good and evil, the story devolved into some more musing on the nature of serialized comic books (which along with SUPERMAN BEYOND and BATMAN RIP makes me think Morrison is having a career crisis of his own) and the rushed art, and you’ve got a let-down of a last issue.
SQUASHUA: I humbly suggest we get as many reviewers to review FC 7 as possible. 2-5 paragraphs at most consisting of 3-5 sentences each. Then you take all the reviews, and you mix them up by paragraph and post it.ROCK-ME: The elation of Balloon Man was instrumental in nano-patching the frothy bangles in the midst of their sniping.
BUG: Had this been hyped as an Elseworlds, I would be more forgiving. Had this been hyped as anything other than a Crisis, I would have given it a pass. But Didio and Friends hyped this up as the culmination of the last five years of stories. But in the end this miniseries, that had nothing to do with Sue Dibny's death or Earth 2 Superman punching the space-time continuum or Black Adam's World War or anything else that happened in the last five years, proved to tumble under its own weight of hype.
SLEAZY: I'm starting to think the real problem is that Morrison's slipped from Robyn Hitchcock down into Julian Cope territory.
The Rubik’s Cube of discord realigns the trinity
And bleeds through the parallel universe lava lamp.
And bleeds through the parallel universe lava lamp.
OD: I was crucified a few weeks ago in the Talkbacks for my belief that the comic medium gets better as time progresses. So I am a huge proponent of change and new methods of story telling; basically I hate resting on laurels and the proverbial status quo. However, the term CRISIS holds certain connotations for longtime comic fans. If DC was going to rape our sense of nostalgia to sell this book, then they should be ready for the backlash when the series deviates so drastically from the complete reboot of the DC universe that we saw with CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.VROOM: Didn't read it. Didn't read any of Final Crisis. I don't care about "event" comics. I barely even read superhero books from the Big Two anymore.
ROCK-ME: It’s highly ironic that all of “52” and “Countdown” could have been told in 5 issues each, or less, yet here was a mammoth story that could have used an additional 7 to 10 issues at least (actual story, NOT tie-ins) and it came down to 7 insane issues of rectally-inserted exposition and incomprehensible one-line tangents.
PROFESSOR CHALLENGER: Just downloaded the torrent. I can't figure it out either.
BUG: All I can say about the final issue of this series is that THANK GOD it's over so Geoff Johns can get out his writing mop and bucket and clean up the mess Morrison made the DCU in the last year. I hope Johns packed his heavy duty industrial gloves, because there's some MAJOR cleaning to do.
IMP: I'm angry at Morrison for choosing style over storytelling; I'm angry at the editors at DC who let Morrison do whatever the hell he wanted while other writers were left in a holding pattern awaiting the outcome of FC and RIP; I'm angry at the DC marketing people who hyped this half-assed miniseries as the Be All, End All of the DC Universe; and I'm angry at myself for wasting money on this series even after it was clear that it was terrible. If DC is smart, they'll treat FINAL CRISIS much the same as Marvel treated the "Spider-Clone" saga of the late 90's: bury it deep, deny that it ever happened, and we'll all forget about it and move on as if nothing happened.OD: I just finished reading FINAL CRISIS 7 -- What the hell was that? Should I really care about The Monitors I just met last year? And Bruce Wayne is fucking an aborigine to sleep? Seriously, was this just seven books of subtle nuances that even though I've read DC for 25 years it’s not enough of a commitment to understand?
SUPERHERO: You bought the tie-ins? Maybe it shouldn't be Sleazy G but Sucka G.
The death of the Bat,
Resurrection by a naked aborigine.
Resurrection by a naked aborigine.
JINXO: As to FINAL CRISIS. Okay, going in the, the anti-life equation? I found it a little hard to swallow. I mean, words that proved there was no good in the world, which would cause despair, confusion, frustration and madness, words with such a high cost. But having read FINAL CRISIS I now know such combinations of words do exist. Okay, a tad harsher than I really feel but just a tad. For me, in the end, it was all a bit of confusing crap mess. I mean, high brow, carefully considered, pretentious crap--but still crap. Crap wearing an ascot and a monocle smoking a very smart looking pipe but dress it up as intelligent and fancy as you want, it still is a bit crap. I think there was a highly intelligent solid story there but it was told in a way that just made it nearly impenetrable to me. Reading the last issue I flashed to the latest episodes of LOST. Hurley decides to tell his mom the truth about what happened on the island. In one or two sentences he tries to sum up four seasons of complex plots skipping over tons of details necessary for his story to make any sense to her. "We crashed on an island, and then there was a guy in a hatch pressing a button every few minutes to save the world. Then the hatch blew up. And then their were these people called The Others who killed these other people who..." In the end that's how FINAL CRISIS felt to me: like I was being given an insanely truncated version of a story too big for the space they had to tell it in, just being given random important beats without much concern for providing the reader context. If you followed it or found the style "challenging", well, good for you. For me it was a pain in the ass sloppy telling of a story I think properly told could have really been amazing.
SLEAZY: Actually, for the first time I agree with the Morrison fans who were all telling us we were stupid or wanted to rush things--waiting until the final issue, everything fell into place. I just have one little thing I'm not clear on, but I'm sure one of you picked up something I missed.ROCK-ME: If only King ArgleBargle had not limited his own vectors.
OD: When you say "restore" the data we talking about putting the old hard drive back in the new machine or are they just swapping the folders over?
BUG: Hey guys, Squashua had a good suggestion if everyone is game. He suggested that we all just rant a bit about FINAL CRISIS in one paragraph at a time and then randomly piece it together for a review.
The Monitor’s world goes white,
All hail the 5th world.
All hail the 5th world.
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #130
Writer: Brian Michael Bendis
Art: Stuart Immonen
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewer: Jinxo
I don’t see anyone getting too excited over this whole “Ultimatum” event. My guess is, like me, everybody is sort of burnt out on the whole world-ending-event thing, especially since they haven’t exactly been home runs lately. And while I’m not exactly mad with “Ultimatum” fever myself, I do find myself liking its execution better than some of the other apocalypses out there.
I mean, they’re actually snuffing some characters. Good on ya. And it seems like a real fustercluck with the heroes all caught with their pants down and real regular people not only in danger but actually dying in the thousands. And for the ULTMATE SPIDER-MAN end of things, you get the perfect portrait of Spider-Man. All of New York is flooded and even though he’s bailing water with a teaspoon, Peter keeps doing anything he can do to make even a small difference. His friends, both heroic and just regular kids, they’re throwing in to do anything they can. Meanwhile, as he’s trying to save the city just a little bit, the cops are out there trying to harass our boy.
Recently in Wizard Magazine, Brian Michael Bendis made a comment that because AMAZING SPIDER-MAN was now closer to what ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN was, maybe there was a need to change ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN to differentiate it. Can I just ask, please, please in tweaking things, please don’t mess this book up. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN is supposedly really great now and might be covering similar ground. I wouldn’t know because I ain’t reading it. I won’t. Done. I won’t read that book the same way I’d have ditched CAPTAIN AMERICA if they did a story where Bucky was still alive because Steve Rogers cut a deal with Hitler. 616 Spider-Man is not something I can read now. ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN is the only Spider-Man I’ve got.
Please don’t muck it up.
Jinxo is Thom Holbrook, lifelong comic book reader, and the evil genius behind poobala.com. He may appear cute and cuddly but if encountered avoid eye contact and DO NOT attempt to feed.
SCOTT PILGRIM VS. THE UNIVERSE (Vol. 5)
Bryan Lee O’Malley: Creator
Oni Press: Publisher
Vroom Socko: Vs His Own Universe
The new SCOTT PILGRIM is here! The new SCOTT PILGRIM is here! And Christ is it dark!
Oh sure, there’s the usual fight sequences with one of Ramona’s evil ex-boyfriends. Actually, there are two of them in this installment: Kyle and Ken, the twins. But the usual goofy fight sequences ripped from the fevered dreams of a Nintendo fiend are almost an afterthought in this installment. Instead, the relationship between Scott and Ramona is at the fore. Let me tell you, fighting evil ex-boyfriends is easy; it’s working at a relationship that’s hard. And now that these two are living together, the shine is starting to come off. What does that mean for their relationship? I’m not telling. What does that mean for the reader? It means that the penultimate installment of SCOTT PILGRIM is the best one yet.
It’s not just relationship issues that Scott is dealing with here. His band is starting to disintegrate around him, his friends are drifting in different directions, and he’s just become 24, that wretched year where your life becomes buried under adult responsibilities. I actually feel sorry for the poor guy. Except for the bits where he’s badmouthing theme parties. Who doesn’t like a decent party theme? But there’s still plenty of humor on hand, especially at those aforementioned parties. You see? They’re good for something. There’s even what could be the best time transition caption ever on page 95.
But it’s watching the way Scott and Ramona handle each other that’s the most interesting. O’Malley does a magnificent job of illustrating the ways that little idiosyncrasies can become annoying habits once experienced over and over again. Actually, the magnificent aspect of this is that he manages to do this, making it resonate on an emotional level, while simultaneously making a running gag based on X-Men continuity. As for his literal illustrating, there’s a sequence with Scott and Ramona talking in bed that—well, as I said, I don’t want to spoil anything, but for me it’s THE defining moment of the book. It’s a scene that goes hand in hand with the last scene of the two of them alone, where--goddamnit, I’m not going to be the one to spoil THAT. But I have to say I was floored when I read that sequence. Floored. And there’s a whole chapter that follows, plus an epilogue, that almost put me through the floor. Fucking dark, I’m telling you. If you don’t have an emotional reaction to those closing pages, then there’s something the matter with you.
I’ve managed, over the years, to enjoy each installment of SCOTT PILGRIM as it comes, with the wait between volumes being long, yet somehow bearable. I have a feeling that won’t be the case this time around. The promise of a conclusion would be bad enough, but the manner in which O’Malley ends this will have his readers chomping at the bit. All I know is, I want the final book in my hands, and if that could happen tomorrow I’d really appreciate it.
Vroom Socko, Aaron Button to his friends, once went to a Prom themed party. He was voted the Prom King. He’s also planning on showing up at the SCOTT PILGRIM release party at Floating World Comics in Portland on the 5th. He’ll be the one wearing the crown.
WHAT IF: SECRET WAR...”WHAT IF DOCTOR DOOM KEPT THE BEYONDER'S POWERS?” #1
Writer: Karl Bollers
Artist: Jorge Molina
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Guest Reviewer: William
Doctor Doom has always been a favorite of mine, primarily due to his beautifully complex personality. He just brings so much to the table in terms of his intelligence, his powers, his honor, his vengeance, etc. (My favorite story ever of his is the Graphic Novel "Triumph and Torment", co-starring Dr. Strange. An absolute must read if you haven't.) There's a reason why he's consistently stayed on the top of so many top "villains" lists for years (for once Wizard magazine got it right in one of their past lists), and that's because of his unique nature, how his actions frustratingly give him so many redeeming qualities at the same time. How I wish these aspects would've been captured in the recent “Fantastic Four” films, because when one thinks about here was a chance to finally see Doom brought to life in $100 million+ budgeted movies, i.e. this time there was no excuse about money holding anything back, but alas we all know the results by now.
In any case I'm always interested in picking up any book that he happens to be in, such as this eye-grabbing "What If" issue that deals with the first Secret War. To be honest I've never read the entire first series, only bits and pieces that I've picked up here and there through the years. But I do remember seeing the highlighted portion involving Doctor Doom siphoning the powers from the Beyonder (thank you bloggers), and this issue runs with the following interesting scenario: What if Doctor Doom was able to keep those powers?
So what would you do if you were given the powers of a God? I know my first selfish task would involve lots and lots of redheads (so I like redheads, sue me) but this issue presents Doom finally being able to fulfill his heart’s desire, which is to save the universe. What's interesting to note is how Doom interprets this, for in his mind he must first defeat those that naturally seek to defeat him. Even though he has noble intentions, being given the power of a God is seen as a big no-no to the heroes. So if you want to see all-out Doctor Doom action in its prime, you will not be disappointed here. Not only does he take on the usual Marvel heroes, but he also takes on and defeats the Eternals, the Asgardians, the Inhumans, even the all-powerful Celestials. I'd never thought I'd imagine seeing a Celestial being ripped in half, but Doom does it here. He even frees his beloved mother's soul from the Devil himself (I know, I know, it was already done in "Triumph and Torment", but this is a separate universe) as Doctor Doom chokes the "life" out of him. Ha! Try topping that, Darkseid and Thanos!
Further making this issue so great is the outstanding artwork from artist Jorge Molina. I've never picked up an issue with his art before, but after this I'll certainly keep him in mind. Molina beautifully creates something here that looks like a mixture of regular comic book art with paints/pastels. I don't know exactly the logistics of it, but the end result is very nice looking. How I wish he'd do some work on some Superman titles. Writer Karl Bollers does a good enough job on his end, running with an interesting idea from start to a satisfying ending. About the only thing I have to pick on here is that Bollers does the annoying trend plaguing certain comic books nowadays, where the story jumps between different time periods without warning. It's like Bollers saw “Pulp Fiction” before this issue and thought "what the heck, you know" in terms of his approach. I think the writing would've worked much easier here with just a more straightforward approach.
Anyways, this is an excellent issue that I recommend any Doctor Doom fan to pick up if they can. The price tag is one of those annoying $3.99 ones, but in this case it's well worth the price.
MISTER X: CONDEMNED #2
Creator: Dean Motter
Publisher: Dark Horse
Reviewer: steverodgers
The fun of the new MISTER X: CONDEMNED mini is the joy of seeing Radiant City again: a place of dirigibles, Fritz Lang buildings, and flying cars, a six-pack of retro-future awesome beer that you can get hammered with on every page. It’s a visual treat for those that remember a time that never was, when a robot served you lunch at a rotating restaurant, a time when you got your news from a daily paper written by a smoking workaday newsgal surrounded by pneumatic tubes, and the monorail high above would take you anywhere that you needed to go while the lights of Radiant City twinkled below like stars.
These days the citizens of Radiant City are experiencing mass phobias, sleepwalking and psychoses—it seems that almost everyone in the city has some mental health issue. People believe that the very architecture itself is to blame and so the Mayor has launched an ambitious plan of destroying the guilty buildings with his “New Broom” project. But for Dean Motter’s Radiant City they don’t use bulldozers for that type of thing, they use giant robots with scary eyes and robot pinchers. Unfortunately for the mayor (or maybe by design), the New Broom accidentally takes out a secret academy of architects that had a hand in designing Radiant City, which sets off jive-talking reporter Rosetta Stone on a investigative journaling binge that leads to the seemingly deranged Mister X. Mister X is a mysterious, No-Doz popping insomniac architect, and one of principle designers of the city, who has returned to save his city before it ends up in ruins.
Motter dials up the noir for this mini that is packed with conspiracy, thugs, dames and chippy dialogue. I am sure for a student of architecture there are tons of references that are flying over my head. The only one I caught is Roark, the name of the current city planner which is also, appropriately, the homophone of Ayn Rand’s hero architect, Howard Rourke, in THE FOUNTAINHEAD. There is not much in the way of character development in MISTER X, but the plot itself is secondary to the backdrop of ideas: how do buildings affect us, what is the true nature of a city, when does obsession become madness, and is madness even a bad thing in the pursuit of an artistic ideal?
MISTER X has a long, independent comic book history, and Dark Horse has just published the complete first series in one volume. The artists involved in the original series are a who’s who of comic book God-ery, including the Los Bros. Hernandez, Seth, Neil Gaiman, and Dave McKean. Enjoying the first two issues of this series has me definitely wanting to go back and lay down some coin for that book if just to see how Radiant City got so screwed up in the first place, and of course to enjoy more flying cars, fantastic cityscapes and robots.
MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA #3
Writer: Kurt Busiek
Artist: Anacleto
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewer: Optimous Douche
MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA is and isn’t “Your Father’s MARVELS.” What’s still in place is Busiek’s greatest talent: to tell a superhero story from the viewpoint of the man on the street looking up at the Gods among us--atalent he inspired with the original MARVELS and perfected over the years in his fantastic creator owned work ASTRO CITY.
What’s missing this time is the sense of wonderment and awe from the story’s main character, the tenacious photo journalist from the first MARVELS, Phil Seldon. But you know what, that’s OK. Time marches on and MARVELS: EotC is no exception.
Starting in the late 60’s and traversing into the early 70’s, EotC latches on to a social commentary that I have prescribed to for years: there is an impenetrable darkness and cynicism that has spread across the world’s collective consciousness. In the real world, the rise of anti-heroes like The Punisher, Wolverine and Ghost Rider challenged our morality as readers and made us wonder whether the ends truly justified the means. Could one take a life and still be considered a hero? By the fact that Wolverine has become the “Where’s Waldo” of the Marvel Universe cropping up everywhere from the Fantasticar to She-Hulk’s thong, our collective answer is obviously yes, he is a hero. But for men like Phil, these heroes reset the bar, forcing villains to push their envelope of awfulness. This is not the first time Busiek has traversed this concept; in ASTRO CITY: THE DARK AGE, he threw down a similar gauntlet that the 1970’s was the beginning of the end for the age of moralistic heroes.
This is a heady title, not meant for the action oriented reader. Since Phil has gotten along in years since the first MARVELS and he’s battling cancer, he is either arriving just after the action takes place or looking at the action from a distance. Personally I loved this approach, but I’m OK with “talkie” comics. I know though that not all fans will be as forgiving towards this paradigm shift from the traditional superhero “first-person point of view”.
Even Ancaleto’s art is reminiscent of Ross’ work from the first MARVELS, but he brings his own level of dark undertones to the painted panels to make this book truly his own. Many have stated the painted page makes it harder to convey action, and I tend to agree, but again it works for this title. Since Phil is a photographer the still frame nature of the art helps you get inside a photographer’s mind to view the world as a series of moments rather than a fluid moving picture.
I expect EotC to have a rather predictable ending, but I’m not reading this title for the surprises. No, this is a coming home and closing chapter to the end of innocence and the start of the modern more jaded age.
When Optimous Douche isn’t reading comics and misspelling the names of 80’s icons, he “transforms” into a corporate communications guru. "What if the whole world had superpowers? Find out in the pages of Optimous’ original book AVERAGE JOE. Read the first full issue on Optimous’ New Blog and see original sketches by fellow @$$hole Bottleimp. If you are a publisher or can help these guys get AVERAGE JOE up, up, and on the shelves in any way, drop Optimous a line."
HEATHENTOWN #1
Writer: Corrina Sara Bechko
Art: Gabriel Hardman
Publisher: Image Shadowline
Reviewer: Ambush Bug
Really good horror in comics is hard to find. Either it’s played for laughs or too tame to even be called horror. Either way, when it comes to horror comics, I usually walk away disappointed. The few comics that really did scare me did more than just go for gag reflexes and cheap scares; they established mood and took their time to develop investment in the characters and the situations they find themselves in. Comics like 30 DAYS OF NIGHT and THE WALKING DEAD come to mind when I think good horror in comics.
Now I can add another comic to that list: HEATHENTOWN.
One of the things that stand out in good horror is that it has things that you’ve never seen before. In HEATHENTOWN there’s plenty of that. This black and white OGN (close to 100 pages) sets a somber mood and tone for the heroine, but when the scares start, they don’t stop until the very end. Conquistadores, grizzly bears, woolly mammoths, demon dogs, the Fountain of Youth--all factors that make this comic one to remember. Our heroine, Anna, is a tormented person who has lost her love and hopes to find her in the swamps of Florida. Her search takes her deep beneath the surface where nothing living dwells. The horrors she experienced will not soon forgotten by this reader.
The thing that sets this book apart from others is the gorgeously moody pencils and inks of artist Gabriel Hardman. His work as a storyboard artist shows in this book as the action moved quickly, building in intensity as the panels whiz by. I found the 94 pages to be a quick read, not because there are filler splash panels (there aren’t), but because the tension is communicated so perfectly in Hardman’s panels that you can’t help but flip the pages lightning fast.
Writer Corrina Sara Bechko has crafted a heart-wrenching tale of loss and how some cling to life long past its expiration date. The imagery and tone is near perfect--the type of original tale you don’t usually see and one you often long to see. HEATHENTOWN is worth checking out. It’s got scares, the imagery is gorgeous, and the story is something you won’t forget.
Ambush Bug is Mark L. Miller, reviewer and co-editor of AICN Comics for over seven years. Check out previews to his short comic book fiction here and here published in MUSCLES & FIGHTS 3 and MUSCLES & FRIGHTS on his ComicSpace page. Bug was interviewed here and here at Cream City Comics. Look for more comics from Bug in 2009 from Bluewater Productions, including the just-announced sequel to THE TINGLER for their VINCENT PRICE PRESENTS ongoing series.
AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE #21
Writer: Cristos N. Gage
Art: Humberto Ramos
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewer: Jinxo
Still liking it.
I mean, half this book consists of heroes not wanting to step up to even continue on in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE. Making up excuses, hemming and hawing… not doing anything else. And it’s great stuff. AVENGERS: THE PROCRASTINATION… ATIVE. Then you get the other half in there. More collateral mess kicked to the side and forgotten by the other bigger books. That ain’t Thor on the cover, people. That’s one crazy ass clone who has only gotten crazier. Good times. If I had a complaint at all it would be the fact that I want to see Dyna-Mutt Thor face off against the real deal, but this issue ends teasing a different throw down that doesn’t get me near as exited.
Humberto Ramos draws this book. I’ve really disliked his work on RUNAWAYS. But here, for some reason, even though his style is basically the same…it kinda works for me. I think it might be that the tone of his drawings here is handled a little better. In RUNAWAYS it seems like no matter what is going on the characters all look like goofballs mugging for the camera. Like the book is winking and saying, “Don’t take this too seriously!” The characters in THE INITIATIVE still have a cartoonish look, but there’s no comic mugging. Instead there’s a wider set of emotions on display here as well as some no nonsense anger, violence and general evil.
Works for me.
Every comic shop has them… battered long boxes jam-packed with dog-eared titles ranging from forgotten heroes of the 1970s to multiple copies of chromium-covered “collector’s item” comics from the Big Bust of the 1990s. But if you are patient, and dig deep enough, you just may find something special…
HOSTESS COMIC BOOK ADS
Reviewer: BottleImp
So lately there’s been some references flying back and forth between us @$$Holes and amidst some of the talkbacks having to do with one of the greatest ad campaigns of all time. Some of you young’uns might not know about it, but to comic book readers who were born in the 1970s, it was a regular phenomenon: there you were, reading the latest adventure of Batman or Spider-Man, when out of the blue there would appear another superhero defeating a nefarious villain with the aid of a delicious pre-packaged snack pastry. I am referring, of course, to the comic book Hostess Snack Cake ads of the late ‘70s and early ‘80s.
These ads ran in both DC and Marvel comics, although it seems as if the Marvel creators were having a little more fun with the concept—some super villain would be robbing a bank or something, a hero would show up to try to stop them but their powers would have no effect, so the hero would merely toss a couple of Twinkies in front of the villain and wait for the inevitable outcome. The DC ads ran along the same lines, but seemed a little blander when compared to the Marvel ones… maybe just a sign of the times, when DC comics in general were kind of bland.
Wouldn’t it be great if FINAL CRISIS had been wrapped up as neatly as one of those Hostess ads? Batman tosses Darkseid a package of Hostess cupcakes, and Darkseid says, “This rich chocolate cake is as black as my heart, but tastes so much better! Who Needs Anti-Life when I have a delicious creamy filling?” Then he happily goes to jail or to hell or wherever you would imprison a living embodiment of evil, munching away on his cream-filled artery-cloggers. Hell, that ending would’ve made more sense than what Morrison wrote.
Anyhoo, I dug through some of my dog-eared, coverless comics from when I was a kid and found some of those gems of product placement. Take a stroll down memory lane, those of you who were alive back then, and you kids out there who grew up having never seen the Hulk take on the Roller Disco Devils, enjoy some classic superhero-slash-snack cake action.
THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS
By Shin Takahashi and Trend-Pro, Co., LTD.
Released By No Starch Press
Reviewer: Scott Green
One of my prouder sets of accomplishments is that I was able to complete three levels of calculus, linear algebra and statistics. In theory, I was two classes away from a math minor. Yet, apart from occasionally mentally calculating permutations, combinations or other probability, I haven't used any of the course material since I learned it. And, like the procedure for binary division, it's largely left my memory. As such, I can appreciate the entertaining refresher course offered by THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS. The mechanism for framing the lessons is not inspired. There's far more formula than explanation, but it functions as advertised. While I wouldn't call the educational manga brilliant, it does a yeoman’s job presenting how to calculate statistics in a way that's accessible to the unfamiliar or out of practice.
THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS works on the school of thought that if you (presumably a male reader) are going to watch someone doing something, you're best bet for holding your attention is to have an attractive female form to look at. In this case, it's a moe caricature of a high school girl. Basically, the notion is someone who's impressionable, outspokenly confused at the right moments, and enthusiastic, if not entirely for the right reasons. In terms of manga, it's someone who'll look cute and react in broad physical gestures, suitable to enlivening the introduction of mathematical formulas.
The narrative cement for THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS is mixed when Rui's father brings home Mr. Igarashi from the marketing department after an evening of social drinking. Rui shows some interest in the handsome Igarashi's work, so he introduces some concepts behind market research, specifically the use of sample data. Rui falls for Igarashi, and envisioning the frequent proximity of private lessons, asks her father to hire her statistics tutor. Dad is overcome with joy that his daughter is interested in his occupation, so that weekend, he brings over bespectacled, messy haired Mamoru Yamamoto. This is a guy who quickly exhibits nerd tendencies as his attention is immediately drawn to Rui's manga collection. Still, figuring that knowledge of statistics could be parlayed into a relationship with Igarashi, Rui decides to endure the "nightmare" and study with Yamamoto.
I have a distaste for pandering in manga, especially with respects to moe, but in the case of THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS, the use of a soft, non-threatening girl is so nakedly functional I have a hard time holding it against the book. The staff at Trend-Pro (scenario writer "re_kino", illustrator Iroha Inoue) has a solid handle on how to use these cartooned characters to serve up concepts and formulas. The proceedings are kept light hearted and easy to read. What it lacks is imagination. As illustrated by the Rui/Yamamoto arrangement, Trend-Pro's work does not transcend the straight forward in developing innovative vehicles for lessons or metaphors for the concepts.
This can also be seen in what the manga cartoons. Lessons start with a concrete example to be discussed by Rui and Yamamoto, such as the consumer survey packaged with a manga graphic novel, test results, bowling scores or supposedly stolen pudding. From there, Yamamoto launches into his discussion of a topic such as data classification, probability or hypothesis tests. With an eye towards practical application, Takahashi does not shy away from the math, and a number of the chapters are heavy on formula. There are a few cartooned metaphors for the concepts being discussed, but, for the most part, it's rendered in a straight, formal manner: charts, graphs, calculations and so on. Instead, the visual flexibility of manga is directed at capturing Rui's mental process. There's a running gag in which Rui comments that a particular calculation is "abstract," after which she is illustrated in cubistic stylization for a panel. Another gag illustrates her reaching to master a concept by showing her as an arctic explorer, braving snow driven winds to reach her destination. Channeling this visual expressiveness towards the narrative serves to make the manga easy to read. While the information is presented in a sufficiently clear manner that there's little difficulty picking up the lessons, the medium is not used to emphasize the lessons themselves. Maybe manga could be used to create easily remembered visual metaphors for statistic concepts, but that does not appear to be the intension here.
In my academic life, I found that Larry Gonick's CARTOON GUIDE TO THE COMPUTER offered a useful handle for grasping the fundamental concepts of the subject. THE MANGA GUIDE TO STATISTICS is not quite as clever, especially in finding the graphical vocabulary for phrasing the concepts, but it is helpful for framing the scope and methods of statistics. While it falls short of some platonic ideal of a manga guide to statics, the book does prove to be an effective introduction or refresher to the subject. I certainly found that it jogged my memory for how it's done. Beyond that, the book succeeds at what seems to be its aims. It's a light, impressively non-oppressive read, especially considering the technical nature of its subject.
Scott Green has been writing for AICN ANIME for over seven years. If you like what you see here and love anime & manga, be sure to check out his latest AICN ANIME column here.
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #9
Marvel Comics
Although Paul Pellitier's art is sorely missing from this book, the writing is still top notch. In fact, this was my favorite read of the week. So you have the coolness of Starlord, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, Drax the Destroyer, the newly redesigned StarHawk and Vance Astro in this book, now Abnett and Lanning add Jack Flagg to the mix? Are you kidding me? This book is an overdose of cool. Flagg's inner monologue about cosmic characters is priceless. Here's hoping the wheel-chair-bound powerhouse that gave the Thunderbolts a run for their money sticks around in this book for a while. He's a damn fine addition to an already amazing book. - Bug
JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #23
DC Comics
Now that JSA wrapped up its long, drawn-out KINGDOM COME storyline, I figured it might be safe to give the series another try. This issue didn’t really suck me in, though—I feel like there’s been way to much Black Adam in the JSA titles already (what with his presence in the previous JSA series) and that his character has already been pretty much milked dry, and Jerry Ordway’s art is kind of hit-or-miss. On the plus side, Geoff Johns seems to be whittling down the JSA roster to a more manageable size, and it looks like this storyline might clean up the whole Shazam/Captain Marvel mess that was left after INFINITE CRISIS and DAY OF JUDGEMENT, so I’ll probably hang around for a couple more issues to see what happens. There’s also a “mystery” cameo on the final page of a certain character who was quite prominent in the latter issues of FINAL CRISIS—and whose appearance here just cements the fact that FINAL CRISIS had little if anything to do with the majority of DC’s regular titles. Way to go, DC editorial. - Imp
UMBRELLA ACADEMY #3
Dark Horse
Like a Morrison comic...that makes sense. This book goes in every creative direction imaginable; there's time travel, alternate realities, hitmen wearing cartoon masks, conspiracy theories all swirling around a family of dysfunctional superheroes. Gabrial Ba's artwork continues to dazzle and add new layers to this already dense reading experience. Despite all of their bickering, the Umbrella Academy is in a lot of trouble. Not quite sure I make sense of it all yet, but unlike his inspiration Morrison, writer Gerard Way shows the patience to spend enough time with each character for the reader to get to know them and care about the warped scenarios he puts them through. - Bug
NEW AVENGERS #49
Marvel Comics
That’s it? Really? They teased the crap out of us forever with plots centering on Luke Cage and Jessica Jones’ kid. They gave the kid crazy Skrull eyes. Then they had Skrull-Jarvis kidnap the kid. THEN Luke Cage cut a deal with Norman Osborn in order to save the kid. All that buildup for a one issue brush off of the whole thing because, apparently, we’re in a hurry to get into the next event? Are you joking?!?!? Bendis, say it ain’t so? Have you never watched or read a serialized story before? You can run a good kidnapping plot for forever without having to derail your big event stuff. Keep that kid lost and out of play awhile. Let it wreak havoc on Luke and Jessica’s relationship. Have poor Luke trying to fight the good fight while tracking down the few slim leads he can find. Do something! This…this reminded me of the SNL skit parodying “There Will Be Blood”. Where the guy loses sight of his kid for 5 seconds, starts screaming, “Where’s my boy! I’ve lost my boy! I’ve abandoned my child!” Then he sees the kid is standing right behind him, stops on a dime and says, “Oh, there he is.” Something. Okay, with what does happen it is implied there will be repercussions but, really, will they be any different from those the New Avengers would be facing anyway? And…what WAS with the Skrully eyes? Was it just that the kid has green eyes and they got really irritated and so they just started bugging out? - Jinxo
ROBIN #182
DC Comics
As this series winds down, I have to say that I like the way Fabian Nicieza has evolved the character of Robin. While Dick has been doing everything he can not to become like Bruce and Jason sadly and desperately wants to be like Bruce, written by Fabs, Tim has no other choice than to be the most like Bruce. With the loss of his parents and now Batman, it looks like there are dark times ahead for Tim. Fabs adds depth to Robin by not making him a squeaky cleaner. He's smart and most of all driven, much like Bruce. The action in this comic may not be typical of the bouncing boy wonder of old, but it does make for some interesting reading. There's a dose of angst and a dose of rebellion to be had with this issue, and although the Battle for the Cowl is about to begin, Fabs writes a Robin that makes him best suited to take on the mantle of the Bat. - Bug
SKAAR: SON OF HULK #7
Marvel Comics
So what happens when Conan and the Hulk are trapped in a closet with nothing but a Barry Manilow record, some champagne, and some lube? SKAAR: SON OF HULK, that's what happens. Greg Pak did a decent job of fleshing out the world of Sakaar when the Hulk was exiled there in his own series. During that run, though, I found myself longing for the Hulk to get off of that world and return to Earth because THAT is what the story was all about. Pak took his time to get there and he's doing the same thing with this sequel to his "Planet Hulk" storyline. Sure, you can say that it's fun watching Skaar go nuts and bust up a bunch of alien barbarians, but the main reason we're sticking around is to see what happens when Skaar goes back to Earth and shows up on his poppa's doorstep. Pak isn't sending Baby Boo Hulk home yet, though. He's teasing us a bit with a return of the Savage Surfer AKA the Silver Surfer who uses his surfboard as a shield. Butch Guice is doing a great job with his nitty gritty art style. The panels look as if they have been carved from granite. And the story is fun and brainless like your typical Conan-style barbarian book. But again, the best thing about this book is the potential that lies in this book’s future. It's been going on for a while now and I'm sure many have tuned out, but I hope Pak brings the son home to meet his father before the true foe of this book, low sales, takes out the Hulk-Spawn for good. - Bug
Editing, compiling, imaging, codi
Released By No Starch Press
Reviewer: Scott Green
Marvel Comics
DC Comics
Dark Horse
Marvel Comics
DC Comics
Marvel Comics
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Now I can join the ranks of all "First" tools everywhere!!
>sigh< -
Sorry, but its the first time I've ever seen "None posted yet"
Anyway, I felt much the same way about Final Crisis. IC was massively better.
My two cents: Richard Grayson for Batman '09. Its just right, folks. -
It's not as bad as the jackass who was working on X-Factor, but I still think it ruins whatever comic he's working on. Though, I know people who love it, so to each their own.
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I thought it was Briiiiiliiiiant!
I still remember when you silly bitches whined and whined about New X-Men every single time a new issue came out. I think it is safe to say that you were the whiney internet MINORITY back then. I think you still are. Final Crisis is an incredible jigsaw puzzle made of beautiful caracter moments and maddening ideas. These are the stories that still keep me interested in the Super-Hero genre after 31 years of reading! -
I agree, the kidnapping storyline didn't last long enough, AND I was looking forward to Luke Cage fighting the evil fight for a little longer. Dude went turncoat on the Dark Avengers in the same freakin issue!
I will say this though. Bullseye is a badass.. and a damn good shot. -
I gotta agree with you. Ramos' art sucks the big one. Wayyyyy too cartoony for me. They could have the most serious storyline ever, and it will look corny because of Ramos' art.
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His art reminds me of world of warcraft. Dont like it.
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Back when we all thought it would eventually tell a story? With a plot?
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Good thing I didn't actually pay for that crap. The entire DC and Marvel universes need a total reboot. They're a mess.
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I found it really kind of shameful. He had this narcissistic attitude that simply won't accept the possibility of valid criticism. But more, he seems to resent fans for having some kind of preconception about his book. BUT MORRISON IS THE ONE WHO CREATED ANY PRECONCEPTIONS THROUGH HIS BULLSHIT MARKETING OVER THE PAST YEAR.I mean, if you want to tell a completely inconsequential six-issue Batman story, great. But don't tell people it's the biggest fucking thing to ever happen to the Bat-mythos. If you want to write a kooky, experimental, super-hero "opera", don't spend a year telling everyone it's the biggest, most amazing and impactful event since the invention of the wheel. Morrison created every preconception he seems to resent in the fans.And this guy's writing has been a big part of my life. His runs on Animal Man and Doom Patrol were formative experiences in my youth; I've read him most of my life, supported him, and no one was more excited than me for the possibilities of Final Crisis. But, now, daring to criticize the great man, Morrison relegates me to being in a "disgruntled minority" of online fans.Fuck you, DC.
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No, Final Crisis isn't a story at all. It's not a jigsaw puzzle, not a collage, not an opera. It's a bunch of disconnected, random scenes, without characterization, coherence, or any kind of narrative. It's a free-fall into a narcissist's belly-button, without any regard for its audience. That's bad writing, bitch.
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I'll catch up to GL in the collected editions. And I'm not buying any Marvel if it doesn't have Ed Brubaker's name on it.Unfuck yourselves, major comic companies. Until then, I'll spend the money on DVDs. Or hookers.
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I buy probably 95% Marvel right now. I like all the Bendis stuff on the Marvel side, and most of the X-Titles.
DC has really let me down in the last couple years.
Action Comics is OK, and some Batman stuff is alright, but the last great title I read from DC was All Star Superman, and they discontinued that. -
Still spending money on DVDs? Cough Cough Bit Cough Cough Torrents...
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Reminds me of when I got Oral Surgery, and they gave me that laughing gas stuff - and I saw the dentist and the dental assistants as cartoon characters.
That is exactly what Ramos' art looks like. Like a freakin nitrous trip. -
Since Busiak seems to have moved his mythic take on Super-Heroes into the Marvel U. Too bad, I like clowns with leg extensions.
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ASTROCITY is osme of his best stuff.
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Its not "event fatigue" because really... thats just stupid. No, its because it was written by Jeph Loeb who is fucking terrible.
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Don't worry. You're not missing anything.
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If you didn't like last week's interview (I think it was on Newsarama?) you won't like this one. More of the same. Me? I think FC was a failure on a number of levels. First, and most importantly, on it's own terms. I'm a DC comics nerd, and I had very little idea of what was going on in that book. It didn't work. Second, it failed on the level of how it impacted to the DC universe as a whole. FC was supposed to be some sort of game changer; the DCU (DCM?) was supposed to be irrevocably altered by it's events. What changed at the end of FC? The New Gods gone? When was the last time the New Gods played a major role in the DCU? Batman dead? Not so much. The Monitors gone? Other than in Countdown, when have they played any part in anything? It had no overall impact AT ALL. Last, it failed on a simple level of interconnecting to the DCU WHILE IT WAS OCCURRING. It's hard to get worked up about Demon Mask Wonder Woman when she's still normal, happy, lasso-y Wonder Woman in her own title. Ultimately, it comes down to DC Editorial not doing their jobs. That said, Morrison (a writer whose work in the past I HAVE admired) repeatedly interviewing and beating the "you just didn't get it" drum over and over again is pretty disgusting to me. He overreached, and the book was a mess. It's great that it failed as an overreach, and not due to being less than ambitious, but that doesn't mean it didn't fail. Anyway, check out IGN for the new interview, if you have the stomach for it.
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Eating one of those is like putting on a power ring -- you're instantly transformed into Man-Boob Man.
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was that ever confirmed or was it just Yu's terrible art and a red herring?
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Red Herring... but I kinda have grown to like Yu's distinct yet sloppy looking art.
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secret six...
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to be pissed at Morrison because he hyped his stuff and you all fell for it. I mean, what is he supposed to say: "Hi guys, its me, Grant Morrison... so, I'm writing this thing, its experimental, it'd be cool if you'd check it out and let me know what you thing, but... FAIR WARNING... it kind of sucks, so... you know, just so you know."
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review. I loved Genius! the paragraph style of the random first
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has started to look more and more like Daniel Clowes's (Ghost World). Weird.
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Look at the feet.
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so that expectations are at least somewhat in line with what he's trying to do. You can hype something all you want, but TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT IT.
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It has nothing to do with "event fatigue" and everything to do with crappy writing and art. I didn't make it past the 2nd issue of the last Ultimates run, so why would I invest in the follow-up series done same team of hacks?
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Because depending on your perspective perhaps it didn't suck.
Saying it was experimental would have been fair. Not leading us to believe that it was going to be a major game changer when it wasn't would have been equally fair.
Perhaps the writing wasn't sloppy (again depending on your perspective), but the delivery and hype sure as hell was. -
Where does Iron Man keep them? Also, I bet they make a huge mess of his armor when he has to shove them past his mouth slit.
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done BY THE same team of hacks.
You know what I mean.
And for as much as I dislike Ramos, I sort of dig Yu's stuff. -
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Its hype. When has anything ever been "the biggest thing ever?" Besides, the truth is relative. Morrison obviously thinks FC is amazing, while the rest of us are still wondering if our books were missing pages.
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fucked up with everything else but Green Lantern is the book of the decade and still going awesome.
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I like Frank Cho's run on Mighty. I also like McNiven's short run on New Avengers.
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I just cannot get into it. The story doesn't pull me in. I don't know what it is about it.
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Winnick, Loeb, Waid, Leifeld and I think now... JMS. I just don't buy them anymore, if ever.
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Its like reading an acid-casualty having a nervous breakdown. I'm shocked that editorial just went with it. Maybe Morrison drugged them? Perhaps he implemented the Anti-Coherence Equation on them? After this mess, I don't see how DC will even be able to survive as a publisher. Unless, of course, Johns REALLY knocks it out of the park with BLACKEST NIGHT, which he probably will.
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Feb 04, 2009 10:12:46 AM CST
As I've said before, the best thing about the Hostess ads...
by rev_skarekroe
...is that the Marvel ones are in continuity. Fantastic!
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Should have been at the helm of the universe reboot from the get-go.
Morrison has always been a wild card. Johns is able to write a cohesive story with a fresh twist. -
In the latest issue of Batman, a part of Last Rights (aka Diminishing Returns) featured Catwoman ruminating on the fact that Batman is missing, and that he was in that Darkside Cosmic Headache Chair; meaning, of course, that the Final Crisis was actually happening in main continuity. Uh, well, how come the world isn't a blasted wasteland??? Oh, thats right, it was All A Dream in the mind of the Fifth World Monitor guy who works at McDonalds and wants to create his own comics. If thats so, how come Catwoman is aware that it even happened?!?! The more you think about FC, the worse it becomes in terms of being integrated into main continuity. I mean, really an Epic Fail.
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I hope Johns is able to set it all right.
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I can't either. I wa looking at the trade last nigh, sat down to read it again and then just lost interest. I'm not sure why either, I mean, yeah... no pockets, but really, it seems like its well written, but... Here's the thing: John Stewart makes a ring sniper rifle and shots a yellow lantern dude thats sniping them and my question is: Why is the sniper rifle contruct even nessecary?Why not just shot a beam with the ring? Why make a light-rifle and then shoot? How many lanterns died in that moment? Also, an extra question why: what sniper rifle can shoot across the galaxy?The rings themselves bother me, I guess. The rules are too fast and loose.
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...that Morrison should team up with Bendis. Morrison can come up with the insane, high-concept plotlines that Bendis doesn't usually have in him, and Bendis can make them coherent, something Morrison can't usually handle. It's win-win!
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Ivan Reis is the greatest superhero artist currently working. He's like Neal Adams, Alan Davis, and Bryan Hitch all rolled into one.
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Taken all together, the cosmology of Final Crisis is pretty bleak but not unbelievable. Sort of like Bergman's, [i]Though a Glass, Darkly[/i], where a woman encounters God and discovers he's a big black spider.
Basically, you've got a universe run by vampires who feed off of a comic book reality. I guess they're symbolic of the writers, artists and editors of DC (as well as the shareholders and owners of Time-Warner). This is what Morrison refers to in his interview as being "concerned with office politics." Basically, you've got the fictional super-heroes facing off against the corporate bloodsuckers who milk the fictional characters to create, action dolls and junk toys. The decay sets in when these bloodsuckers decide to kill off the old characters and replace them with new characters to suck on. The vampires don't care, the fictional characters are simply germs of them. This actually explains so much about DC comics.
FC is so much easier to understand once you realize that Mandraak is really Dan Didio. -
just smashing them in his mouth slit, crumbs everywhere and going: Nam-namnamanam!
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Nothing new to add to the general clamor, except I really liked the Tawny tiger moment, and I wish Kamandi was given a moment to kick some ass.... maybe it happened off panel, like everything else.
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You can't think about stuff like that with Green Lantern too much. Really, there's no reason for them to use any imagination at all when using their rings. Crazy suits of armor, vacuum cleaners, guns, boxing gloves, etc. - it's all technically unnecessary. But it's make for a pretty dull comic if they solved all their problems with non-descript beams of green light.
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Man, I was totally off game there. :)
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All the great ideas in the world can't save that wannabe TV writer.
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...that opening image of Darkseid made me laugh.
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Feb 04, 2009 10:32:59 AM CST
WHAT IF: SECRET WAR...”WHAT IF DOCTOR DOOM KEPT THE BEYONDER'S P
by alfiemoon
The reviewer of this issue didn't mention the fact that the entire issue was not only a fun story, but also a great homage to Watchmen #4, the "Dr. Manhattan on Mars" issue. Very nicely done.
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BottleImp, had I paid attention earlier this week, I'd have passed you this link
http://tinyurl.com/3ks4w -
The best part of FC is SUPERMAN BEYOND. That book is surreal, but it is also coherent and makes sense on its own terms. The main FC book? Not so much.
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I mean, I understand WHY its represented that way, but... yeah, it just doesn't quite work for me, I guess. Maybe if there was some kind of different interface or something, sure, itd still just be for show, but I think it would lend these space cops more credibility if they had a heads up display thing going on instead of a fanciful suit of robot armor when wrestling some bad guy. Its a nebulous complaint and one that definitely isn't quite valid because of the very nature of comics, but still... it bothers me.I guess I want to see more stuff along the lines of the raised Lantern Logo that Hal had on his uniform, just more practical usage. I mean, thats barring the fact that the rings seem a little too powerful to me... and I hate Aliens...
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Or was the wannbe part the insult?
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I'm completely confused right now.
So in Secret Invasion.....was that Steve Rogers Cap, or the new Bucky Cap? If it was the old Steve Rogers Cap, then....those Captain America comics are set way after Secret Invasion. Correct?
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The guy who wrote Batman: The Long Halloween can’t be the same guy who wrote The Ultimates 3, or this new Ultimatum can it??
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At the beginning of the storyline, it was a Skrull posing as Steve Rogers.
At the end of the storyline during the battle in Central Park, it was Bucky Cap. -
I actually imagine them fitting neatly into his mouth slot, like he was a toaster.
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Just look at his lower torso. Rogers Cap has the blue pants and red boots. Bucky Cap has black pants and combat boots.
Plus, Bucky Cap usually carries a gun. Cuz he's a "gangsta". =) -
1. The thing I find laughable is that DC tries so amazingly hard to shake their cursed "frozen in amber" feel. Kill off every 2nd tier hero and villain you can find, have these massive multi-verse shattering crossovers, have Dr. Light giving the Wolverine Buttsechs to a hero's wife, they even killed Blue Beetle........and yet, when I pick up GL, every single character in there is exactly the same as they have always been, saying the same lines, doing the same things. Wonder Woman, Batman, etc etc....frozen in amber, no matter how hard they try. 2. JMS is unreliable, but I'm tellin ya, if you arent reading Thor your missing out, he's knocking it totally out of the park on that one (And on time too). 3. Green Lantern's powers have always been lame. It reminds me of He-Man the cartoon, where hes carrying around this big fuckin sword but would rather just pick up the bad guy and throw him in a puddle, where he immediately gives up because he is now wet. Dude, whats with running the bad guy through some giant green washing machine or something? Just blast his ass and move on. Nova>>>>>>GL, search your feelings, you know this to be true. 4. Morrison should not team up with Bendis because Bendis sucks, he should team up with Bru, together they could create literally the greatest comic ever seen by man.
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Also has a pair very feminine gloves as well... which is starting to bother me.
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He carries it because he is perfectly willing to cap a guy in the face if he steps out of line, and because he's just about the biggest bad-ass in the Marvel U right now. Ask Black Widow, she has seen Bucky's gun many times.
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Yeah, hasn't Bucky blasted her in the face a couple times with his gun?
(giggle) -
I'm kinda digging Bucky Cap.
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just doesn't seem to carry a fearsome cache, you know?
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okay, lets say that they fit neatly as if in a toaster, so now the whole front of his helmet is filled with fruit pie? In the end, any way you slice it, iron man + mouth slit + food item = hilarity.
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I am loving the Old Man Logan storyline in Wolverine. The fact that Clint Barton and Logan are driving across the country in the friggin SPIDER BUGGY is reason enough to buy that comic.
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Anyone read the new issue with him cruising around with Namor in that crazy Atlantian spaceship? Awesome. BuckyCap is the best thing to happen to the Marvel U since Rocket Raccoon was capping killer robot Clowns in the 80's. Bru can do no wrong.
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goose is so proud of coining: "frozen in amber" I love how you try to work it into at least one of your posts every week, goose.
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before people stopped calling him BuckyCap?
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First off, though I didn't like FC I still think Morrison is a great writer and I hope the "family issues" that caused him to drop out of NYCC are nothing serious.
Also, in case anyone isn't aware, there are a number of sites that offer annotations for FC. None of them will fully make FC comprehensible of course, but they help. This one is pretty good:
http://finalcrisisannotations.blogspot.com/
What FC REALLY needed was annotations by Morrison on each page of the comic -
One day he is just going to snap, "It's just Cap, alright Spider-Man, just Cap! Jerk"
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bukakke cap. Right? And I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong.
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Big time. Its my number one favorite at the moment.In fact, here's my top five:1. Old Man Logan.2. (with a very early bullet) Incognito3. Umbrella Academy4. Walking Dead5. Ultimate Spider-man (this one surprised me, but really, there isn't another comic out there that has run this long and been this consistantly entertaining.)
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Both the terms 'TV writer' and 'wannabe' or insults. If he was, in fact, a TV writer, the label would not be insulting. Knowing is half the battle.
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That was from one of Hawkeye's BBQs that got a little out of hand... Thats the real reason the West Coast Avengers disbanded, you know.
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That was on TV.
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Feb 04, 2009 11:14:26 AM CST
Speaking of Rocket Raccoon capping killer robot clowns...
by rev_skarekroe
...I hope Guardians of the Galaxy gets around to explaining what happened to all of Rocket's friends from that series and why he wound up in space prison during Annihilation.
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Feb 04, 2009 11:18:00 AM CST
I Now if only Marvel would re title Captain America to...
by righteousbrother
Bucky Cap!
That would rock hard. -
Bendis took the idea of the "ultimate" books and really ran with it, instead of trying to cram 30 years of 616 continuity into the first 5 years of stories like Ultimate X-Men. I mean, you hit the "Phoenix" story within the first dozen issues? What? Mr Sinister is a tatted-up hooligan? Huh? And ultimate Wolverine is a looooooooser. But not Spidey. Sure, they killed Gwen....but found a cool twist to bring her back. And who knows if/when MJ may go all fuzzy & feral again? Ultimate Clone saga was cool, and gave us a girl pete as Spider-Woman; Peter's continuing troubles with SHIELD....it's GOOD! Good, I tells ya! But nobody, and I mean NOBODY is touching Fables for consistently awesome storytelling. If you aren't reading Fables, I laugh at you. Ha.
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"Bullseye bar-b-que sauce: it always hits the spot."
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Me too... Want happened to all of Rocket's pals? Maybe they will do a new mini, that would be awesome.
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I'll return to the trades, but... I lost interest. Although I hear its pretty now.
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Seriously, get this guy out of there. I would like for him to just admit that he hates the character Dick Grayson, just admit it. And quit sucking off Grant Morrison you bald headed fuck.
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whats this about hating Dick Grayson? I've never heard this story, where does it come from?
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One of the things I love about Fables is that Willingham isn't afraid to REALLY up the stakes. I mean, they spent the first 70-odd issues leading up to the Homelands War. Now that it's over, you'd think our heroes would get a well-deserved rest. Nope, it seems the Adversary had some pretty awful things locked up throughout the Homelands, and some are out now, and have been & will be causing grief for our pals.
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concerning Final Crisis, it seems Mr Didio hates the entire DC universe. And its fans.
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I hate Robin. I hate Nightwing. They're TERRIBLE characters; NAMBLA fantasies; and they should be retconned out of existance. There is NOTHING cool about a millionaire crime fighter hanging out with a 13 year old acrobat in green speedoes. Its just a creepy pedophile fantasy.
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It sucked. Nothing happened, ok some stuff happened. But nothing that will be changing the DCU forever. A completely wasted opportunity. And if one more person says "If you don't get FC you're an idiot" I say, quit jerking off to everything Morrison does. It's making you blind. He has done some good stuff, but this train wreck wasn't one of them. Secret Six is one reason to continue buying DC though.
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Tony eats it in little bites until it disappears into the slot and is consumed. I'll concede, however that Iron Man would be in trouble eating a Ho Ho.
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Have you guys seen the Watchmen Hostess parody by Jason Yungbluth? It was in an independent comic years ago called Deep Fried. It's pretty funny. Also funny, his one page Waiting for Planetary in the same issue (Godot). I wish I could locate a copy online. I believe it's referenced at Millarworld, but I am blocked at work.
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... but I agree it could have used an extra few issues to really play out/pay off on a bit more emotion on the page, and wrap us more up in the whole "End is nigh!" feeling a little more adequately.
One thing that I do believe hurt this book is the fact that it's so compartmentalized. It's just going on in the corner, just the FC book itself and the couple of minis/specials under the FC banner (that, apart from Superman Beyond and Submit, have little/nothing to do with FC) while the rest of the DCU's titles continue as if FC doesn't exist. It would be fine if FC was something other than THE END OF THE WORLD. It's very difficult to sell the angle if it's just business as usual everywhere else in the DCU.
But I loved Morrison's storytelling here. A true craftsman. Too many "Hot, Top Writers" in comics today just throw out books with 10 splash pages an issue that take you about 3 minutes to read... somehow these men are praised like gods, yet for the first time in some time we get something a bit cerebral in mainstream comics and people are crying about it. It's sad. -
http://tinyurl.com/clfxnt
Who knew that the vast power of the Cosmic Cube made it susceptible to the distracting deliciousness of Twinkies? Special bonus: note under the title informing the reader that "THE COSMIC CUBE CAN DO ANYTHING". Sweet. -
and their bad screenwriting playbooks, and at the top of my comic writing hierarchy, it's always been Alan Moore and Grant Morrison. But come on-- FC didn't display the techniques of a master craftsman, and it wasn't that "we get something a bit cerebral", it's that the book lacks structure, cohesion, characterization, suspense, drama, tension, etc. Basically everything human beings read stories for is absent from Final Crisis.Like I've said before: "The Filth" was more coherent than FC. It's not about cerebral content, it's about craftsmanship, and on that level, FC was fatally lacking.
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That was insane
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Ok, here is my main actual question about FC: Are Yankee Poodle and Captain Carrot now actual DC continuity characters? It would certainly appear to be the case.
I have many rhetorical questions: What is the deal with Batman? Since he is clearly alive (not so clear on how or why), why is there a "battle for the cowl?" What was the point of the new Forever People? Where did those Female Furies come from? When did Wonder Woman become one? Yet, with all my questions, I did think FC was ok, but I already need to go re-read it because I somehow missed the whole "it was all a dream" thing. And Morrison deserves the criticism. Calling something "Final Crisis" is setting a bar, and if you don't want that bar, don't use such a title. Since I am a reader who doesn't need to completely understand everything, I did enjoy it despite the zillioins of unanswered, perhaps unanswerable, questions and many loose ends. But it certainly wasn't all that.
I have always been an Humberto Ramos fan, but the most recent issue of Runaways sort of proves the critics right. Carolina actually looks just like Chase in many panels. In another panel, someone is talking but no one is there. And, to pile on more, the ending was so super obvious, there is no way the other characters would have fallen for it. So, boo to Runaways, Moore and Ramos.
I don't normally read the Initiative, because as I have said so very many times I hate the government lackey heroes. But I read this issue and am very glad I did, since it features some of my favorite characters: Thor girl, Taskmaster and Constrictor. Also, Hellcat makes an appearance. It was pretty much the bomb! Very entertaining despite Thor Girl getting beat up yet again. And Ramos art looked awesome in this book.
I have been a big fan of Brubaker's Captain America, but I found this latest issue to be boring. Sorry, but even the Namor appearance didn't work for me because he again was using vocabulary I can't see the Prince of Atlantis using. And the rest of the issue was just very dull. But no one is perfect. This was just an off issue.
I agree with Joenathan on a couple things. Green Lanterns are lame (but, ahem, the Scarlet Witch is not). Jeph Loeb and Mark Waid are terrible writers (but JMS is great, when he actually manages to finish a story). The whole Luke's baby/skrull thing was very poorly handled. And Fables is a book I dropped. I stuck it out through the end of the War, but I was sick of it before it ended and have zero interest in starting it up again, especially since it is apparently more of the same. I think Willingham has said what he has to say, that title needs a new writer.
Finally, Bendis would make a good TV writer for a sitcom or a teen drama/comedy. I think he does entertiaing characterizations but his stuff never really develops. So he would not do well on Heroes or Lost or that sort of show. But he is witty so I think he could do a good Gossip Girl/90210/How I Met Your Mother. I am totally serious.
Incredible Hercules continues to be my favorite book. Secret Six has dropped since the inclusion of Bane, a dreadful character.
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"Here's the thing: John Stewart makes a ring sniper rifle and shots a yellow lantern dude thats sniping them and my question is: Why is the sniper rifle contruct even nessecary?" - Because it looks fucking awesome.
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You can all suck a big dick, not so much Joenathan. Sinestro Corps War is the best superhero story ever. It's the Empire Strikes Back of comic books. Homer Sexual, you obviously haven't read Johns' run, only a dumb cunt would say GL's powers are lame. It's one of the most unique and interesting powers in comics. The endless possibilities. All you cunts need to start on Green Lantern #1 and shut the fuck up.
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why its needed. Why not make a Green Teddy bear that you shoot out of a green slingshot. Or a green T-shirt Cannon firing green kosh balls? In the end, its still nothing but the ring shooting a green ray. Green lanterns basically just add some flair to their fight... for no reason. I mean, a giant boxing glove is silly, but its even sillier when you go: "Why even bother making a boxing glove in the first place?" Hal goes to all the effort to imagine a giant boxing glove, just so he can hit Sinestro with it, when he could have just... hit Sinestro. I'm not saying I dislike it or anything, its just... weird.
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And there's nothing silly about Old Man Logan. Christ.
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but the fact that he can't finish shit keeps him from being great.
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I'm not saying the character or the book sucks. I'm not pre-disposed to disliking it without giving it a chance. All I'm saying is I don't understand the reason for a certain facet of his power: Why the flair? And I mean, besides the "for the visual presentation answer." I'm merely wondering, what is Hal's real world application for making a boxing glove over just shooting? And thats not even the reason I have trouble with GL (which is the somewhat lack of rules when it comes to the ring...) so, I'm not sure what you mean.
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But he loves it enough to be one of Oni Press's top talent for years. When that Scott Pilgrim movie hits, the man will blow up causing Oni to blow up. COURTNEY CRUMRIN FOR THE WIN!!! Get Dakota Fanning before she's too old!!! In Conclusion, Dr.Doom got pwned by Squirrel Girl.
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Was fun, it definitely put Green Lantern on the map in a major way, and everything Dave Gibbons was doing throughout it in the Green Lantern Corps book was phenomenal. But storytelling-wise, I take major, major issues with it (apart from a stellar start... the SCW Special itself was one of the best marriages of story and art on the page I've seen in years). And it's missing an ending. Literally, the last issue of SCW just stops and tells us, "To Be Continued in the Blackest Night in 2009!" No one even died in the whole SCW. At its core SCW is badass if you boil it down to a story about Sinestro forming his own Fear Corps... but adding in the orgy of other supervillains (Cyborg Superman, Superboy-Prime, the Anti-Monitor??) it begins to sound like a fanfiction brought to life.
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I think real question is for any comic book reader is how much silly can you take. The whole premise of Super Hero's is silly, at what point do you say ,"holy shit that is just moronic" - for some it's the minute they see a guy wearing underpants on top of his tights, for others it's when a space cop makes a green boxing glove instead of clocking a guy with just regular green beams fired out of a ring.
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and I thought it had a great ending. It ends with the Sinestro Corps getting the shit kicked out of it and Sinestro going to jail to await execution. The black lantern thing simply points to the future. It's called foreshadowing, not a lack of ending.
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Didn't he accidently kill a billion people in Cosmic Odyssey? Shouldn't he be in a mental hospital? I can't believe he is still flying around, he should be a total wreck.
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And context has a lot to do with a person's silliness quotient, I think. Like, I love superhero costumes. Since I was a kid I think it's been one of the main attractions of the genre to me. Yet, any time I see an Alex Ross picture, I think the heroes look retarded in their costumes.
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Ok, so if the Green Lantern made a big green ROCK with his ring, and Sinestro made a big yellow piece of PAPER with his ring.... would Sinestro win? What if a red Lantern made a big red SCISSORS?
WHO WINS THEN??? DO THEY ALL DIE??
JESUS, IT'S JUST LIKE THE END OF RESERVOIR DOGS!!! -
So seriously, have they ever tried to explain why the Lanterns have to make giant boxing gloves and giant robot suits and giant scissors and giant tampons (for when a dam breaks). Has anyone ever tried to explain why?
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I think that will be a spin-off miniseries of THE BLACKEST NIGHT, Nucking Futs.
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you know what it is with them, for me at least? Its the eyeholes. In comics they're small and sometimes have lenses on them, but in real life they have to be huge and then... well, it just looks silly.
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It's just personality. But there is the idea that the construct they create embodies the will and intent behind it. But I see the point. In fact, in the JLU cartoon, Jon Stewart never made anything with his ring. It was always just a simple green beam or basic shape. And really boring.
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Just use a little eye shadow or mascara like Christian Bale in Batman. Makes those big eyeholes seem little.
Shit, I hope crazy Christian doesn't read this talkbalk and come to my house to beat the shit out of me for insinuating he is a nancy-boy for wearing makeup.
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Actually, I didn't get in his line of sight or make direct eye contact with him, so I think I'm ok.
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I say that seriously, as someone who hasn't read him in several years. I remember his great, great Flash run when I was in high school, and Empire was good. I haven't read him in recent times, like I said, but I never thought he should be included on the Winick, Austen, Loeb list. What's he written that's so terrible?
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Hmmm, so maybe the question is: Are the constructs real? Like is that green laser cannon NOT just the ring shooting but an actual green laser cannon? Is that giant robot suit and actual giant robot suit wih all the force and power that a "real" giant robot suit would have and not just green energy flailing around? That would make sense I guess, but are those constructs limited by their real world version's limitations? If so, how did Stewart's Green sniper rifle shoot across the galaxy?Meh... whatever, my point is, I want to get into it, but I just can't. I blame it on my alien hate... but I love Farscape... hmmm...
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I've felt that ever since he's left Flash he's put out lackluster creation after lackluster creation. Remember Crossgen? To me, at least, he's just been Claremonting big time.
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...they properly convey just what an incomprehensible mess Final Crisis was, and as the cherry on top point out (with the JSA review) how it really had nothing to do with anything else in the DCU. Oh well, I suppose here in a few months or so we'll know exactly what the hell happened to Batman (is he back in time? In Australia? What?). And who the villain at the end was, the big red guy with the monitor haircut who, as near as I can figure, didn't make an appearance in the rest of the series. Oh, and I'm sure the Monitors WILL be back, in one form or another.
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The ring can do damn near anything that the wearer has the will to make happen and the imagination to bring about. It most certainly has definite limits as when John Stewart tried to recreate a planet and it's populace the ring informed him such a task was beyond it. They are hyper-efficient quantum computing devices that draw their power from a given energy frequency (WillPower aka Resolve)that is generated throughout spacetime by all sentient life. If that's lame to you well tough titties because the rest of us think it rocks. (Because it does bitches)
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Steve Martin just came by and said I was doing a great job at work, so he awarded me with... 15 seconds of direct eye contact.
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Nobody of note. Or any villains of note.
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why a boxing glove over a concussive force blast.
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Let's get back to talking about Marvel. All this talk about Green Lanturd has triggered my acute narcolepsy.
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The return of the Supervillian to Marvel, the heroes thrown off balance, the system itself turned against them, its a great backdrop with loads of potential for good stories. I want to see the outlaw status of the unregistered heroes really pushed to the wall.
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And Superboy-Prime, the Anti-Monitor, and Henshaw (who doesn't even get his fight with Superman seen on-panel) don't even receive real character arcs in the storyline. Again, an excellent beginning to the SCW, a decent middle, but a completely rushed and limp third act. The kinds of things that needed resolution Geoff probably would have had plenty of room to do... had he not made his GL issues of SCW chock full of about 10 splash pages each. Literally. His scripts must go something like this: "Page 3, Ivan, just draw a big picture of Hal flying over some Sinestro Corps, Page 4 and 5, a double-splash page with just a bunch of action, go wild buddy!"
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I fucking love that series. Though I never read Planet or World I'm going to go back and read them.
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They often do, and often just use energy beams. When we see the more creative designs is usually one of several things... 1) A GL just fucking with a bad guy, 2) A GL horsing around, 3) A GL creating a construct out of instinct, or reflex (they think, "I want to PUNCH this mutherfucker!" your ring conjurs up a giant fist or giant boxing glove to deliver the blow).
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A green Fleshlight, maybe?
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For me, that was one of the triumphs. Too many lazy writers use a death as a cheap excuse to draw readers. Johns didn't need to resort to that. There's plenty of carnage in the war, but Johns didn't NEED to kill a notable GL, because the story itself was awesome and didn't need some lame death-gimmick to move copies.
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He hasn't used a boxing glove in a fucking long time, stop trying to use that as a point. Fuck. nucking futs you can fuck off.
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BUT it does highlight the simplicity of the question in the easiest way.
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You call those 2 splash pages in GL #25 of the war in space and the ground war rushed? The issue was delayed because Reis was busy making it better and it shows. Congratulations. You are a fucking idiot.
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Neo could do all these amazing things but he first had to learn how to separate what he is capable of doing from the real world. So at first he can only jump really far or move faster because he just can't imagine himself reshaping reality. Only afterwards does the realize he can fly, stop bullets and pretty much do anything.
Same with a power ring. You can only do what your imagination allows you, and sometimes it is easier to imagine a big fist or hammer smashing something than just a amorphous blob of energy. Same with a sniper rifle. You want to shoot something across a distance, even the galaxy, you might feel more comfortable using a rifle (something you've handled before) than just a laser blast.
But the real explanation is that it looks cool. C'mon laser blast are alright, but giant green fist? That is an artist's dream. -
You keep on eatin' them toe-mah-toes while I munch my toe-may-toes, mmmkay?
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Alot of people get so friggin defensive about GL. I'm not saying it is definitively lame, like a blanket statement. I can appreciate the coolness, I suppose. Ive even sat back and tried to read multiple GL Corps TPBs, like FORCED myself to read them in an effort to get into it.....but I just cant. I envy people who can, but for me, its lame. And please, spare me the patented DC manuever of killng alot of nameless scrubs to make you think "Ok, this story is VERY serious!! GL from planet 10011151627 just bit it, so you KNOW its serious!" Call me back when someone of consequence bites it, Star Trek patented that manuever with the red-shirts back in the day. Maybe if the GLs stopped using giant green boxing gloves or like a giant green freezer, throwing the guy into it being like "Time to cool off, Sinestro!!", I might think it is cooler.
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Of course there should be deaths. It makes it difficult to sell the "War" aspect if nobody of any note -- on either side -- is a casualty of it. But I thought, "OK, at the very least Cyborg Superman is gonna die, right?" Wrong. And the last issue, for some strange reason, goes to great pains to one by one show us how all the bad guys survived... a very odd thing to do.
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Feb 04, 2009 2:40:03 PM CST
"BUT it does highlight the simplicity of the question in the eas
by psynapse
W.T.F. Way to use sophistry in it's definitive fashion. No, it highlights your single-minded rhetoric and nothing more.
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It is fan fiction in a sense, fan fiction is thinking of the coolest thing possible, but here it works. After reading Infinite Crisis you know Superboy Prime is the most powerful villain in the DCM. So you have that in your head and then this badass story kicks off where the green lanterns are kicked in the balls and the heralds are mentioned and one of them is superboy prime. I know the internet screamed a collective "HOLY SHIT!" when they turned that page.
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if you started with Rebirth of GL# 1 and read GL Corps and Infinite Crisis you might have a better appreciation of it. And the boxing glove hasn't been used as a while. it's a pathetic point.
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Actually No, Henshaw was TRYING to die by being involved in the war. Like many in fiction, a character's desire was turned right back on them. Besides, one of the Guardians died, that's pretty notable in and of itself.
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That was the fundamental problem with the Matrix sequels, is the Wachowskis couldnt really think of anything else cool for Neo to do, so his "limitless" powers ended up being.......flying and being good at karate. Thats because limitless, "anything your mind can imagine" powers are lame. Beyonder, for example? Legendarily Lame.
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Ivan Reis does fantastic art. Moreover, Ivan Reis has done fantastic GL Art. I don't blame him for the ridiculous amount of splash pages per issue... he's just drawing from a script that he didn't write. Maybe you were confused about that when you read my post?
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I believe the correct line is: "Time to put you... ON ICE, sinestro!"And I was about to say the same thing about the deaths, goose. Being that while you don't want some fake death gimmick, if you don't know the character that just got killed, then it has no emotional impact, especially when there seems to be a never ending supply of them.Continentalop comes up with a good enough explanation for the constructs though, good job.
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... then you will be able to tell me the Guardian's name, surely. Barring that, many faceless, nameless Guardians have died throughout the decades. A bunch died in the first Crisis... and then ALL OF THEM died in Emerald Twilight (sans Ganthet). One of them dying nowadays is about as noteworthy as one of the non-Earth and non-main character (I'm not talking about the Kilowogs or the Vath Sarns, or Soranik Natus) 7,200 GL red shirts perishing.
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I'm not sure where you're confused, but perhaps you shouldn't showcase it so much?
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The whole Batman/GL conflict? The Lanterns being pissed at Jordan? That big ass GL planet that is alive or something, and not nearly as cool as Ego the Living Planet? Read it. I get alot of time on my hands with my work traveling around, to stop at Borders and such, so I made it my mission to read all this GL stuff and force myself to realize why it is cool. Right around the time Guy Gardner made his 2,716th pseudo-tough guy "Bring it on, ya goons!! I got plenty fer EVERYBODY!!" comment-of-the-week, I narcolepsied out and couldnt finish it. Sorry man, nothing personal.
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Dick Grayson is a great character, when seen in context of when and why he was created. He was made when the vast majority of comic book readers where 10-12 years old, and allowed them to fantasize about sharing in Batman's adventure. Kid wish fulfillment, and I can understand that.
But I can understand that now comics are much more of an adult medium that Robin doesn’t really work. The idea that an adult man would allow a kid to fight crime with him is just asinine. I mean, Robin is what, 14-years old and you have him fighting madmen like the Joker and Two-Face? That is child abuse. Plus you also have to add in the equation of how the hell is this kid beating the shit out of adults. It took Batman 20+ years to become this ultimate weapon, but this 110lbs kid with zits can learn how to be a badass in just a couple of years? BS. I see no problem with retiring the character.
Besides, I think Grayson was the only Robin that worked. He was Bruce’s kindred spirit: a young man who saw his parents murdered before his eyes. I could always imagine Bruce talking him in as a apprentice for the day that Bruce could no longer be Batman. I couldn’t see him dress him up in a bright red and yellow costume and have him run in front of men with guns…hey, wait. That is why Bruce got him. Robin is a decoy…
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1. Wolverine buttsechs 2. frozen in amber.......and now.....3. Green Lantern Redshirts. Where would this column be without my phrase-coining ability?!?!?
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The greatest comics story never told is Dick deciding Bruce is unfit to wear the mask, or that he could do it better, or whatever.....and deciding to TAKE the cowl from Bruce by force. Mano y mano, Bruce vs. Dick for all the marbles. Get Bru to write that story and you have got an Eisner on your hands.
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So, do you know the story of Didio's hatred of Dick Grayson?
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and your phrase coinage ability, Goose?...frozen in amber, thats where!
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All I know is that Dan DiDio was going to have Grayson/Nightwing die in Final Crisis, but he suddenly had a reprieve. I think Didio's problem with him is that he isn't a fully independent hero and he isn't a sidekick; he is something in-between.
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I got to admit, that is a pretty good Batman story. And I'm going to side with Grayson!
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It's almost the same case as SCW. Geoff is a capable writer when he wants to be (and when he chills on the assload of splash pages), but -- and who knows, this might stem from some kind of editorial edict about one story MUST lead into ANOTHER story -- he seems to have a big problem with third acts and endings. Infinite Crisis had a great buildup, a great beginning, fantastic middle act... but nothing about the ending really gelled to me at all.
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His story is good, but never should have been a Crisis or marketed the way it was, none of which is his fault. Didio and editorial decided to amke it a "Crisis" book. Didio and editorial should have made sure that the other books were consistent with Final Crisis.
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Morrison did not create the misconceptions.
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I know it petered off after a couple of years, but the first 12-24 issues were good.
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As much as I loathe some Quesada decisions, like the whole MJ marriage erase, he has greatly improved the line overall.
I believe I probably still buy more DC than Marvel, but it's close. Primarily because, unlike the 90s, Marvel has invested in writers like, Bendis, Brubaker, Slott, Fraction, Parker, Gage, and David. 10 years ago, I was buying DC/marvel 4:1. Now it's about 1:1 -
Final Crisis... ah... there's got to be another one... I probably get som Vertigo stuff still... Man, I think I totally stopped buying DC!
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Pretty funny, especially if you are an old Marvel fan.
http://tinyurl.com/dy5sho
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Cont, that story WOULD be the ultimate Batman story (and Robin story for that matter) but ONLY if they treated it with absolute seriousness. If there was any sense that Dick or Bruce are holding back whatsoever, the jig is up, we have seen the "heroes fighting each other while looking for a way out and it eventually ends up a draw" story a million times and it was lame by time #32 as it was. It would have to be no holds barred, fight to the finish, both men pulling out every stop, its not over til one man is standing over the defeated body of the other. And why don't the A$$holes ever weigh in like they used to? Optimus appears to be the only one who gives a shit about these talkbacks, no offense to Bug and them, but I feel like week in and week out these are pretty good, valid discussions.
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A sad day for the distinguished competition
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Oh yeah, I get that, and thats a good defense of the character, I just can't get past the NAMBLAness of it all. I know that wasn't the intention, but thats how it comes off. When I was a kid, I didn't mind Robin so much, but as I got older, he started to creep me out more and more. I wish they would just retcon him out of existance. But I get what you're saying.
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When asked by the press corps if this week's hiccup has caused him to rethink any of his appointments, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton interrupted the president to assert that she and her colleagues have already begun educating themselves about comic books, and will soon be "an invincible team of Supermen and Wonder Women working to save America."
"Wonder Woman? That's not even Marvel," Obama responded before storming out of the press room. "Who are you people? -
Is the whole DC VS Marvel thing, like, if you like Star Wars VS Star Trek, or if you liked Elvis VS The Beatles?
With those examples, I would have to say that the reader that prefers DC is also a fan of Star TREK, and The BEATLES.
Me, I'm a Marvel Fan. I like Star Wars, and nobody beats The King... or is it, nobody beats The Wiz? -
I don't think Grayson should be ret-conned out, but I wouldn't mind if they lost Robin (or at least waited until Grayson was 19 before he became Robin).
Like I said earlier, Grayson I could understand. He is practically Bruce all over again: parents murdered, wants revenge. The only difference is that he doesn't have the means for seeking out justice, like Bruce did. So I can understand why Bruce became his Mentor, he recognized a kindred spirit.
But the other Robins? Just makes no fucking sense. What are these guys motivation to become Robin? They like the costume and don't want to go to school? Ok, Todd had a little bit of motivation, but it is not like i could believe that he would be as motivated as Grayson or Wayne was. -
JJ Abrams version of Star Trek doesn't count. I'm talkin' the old 60s and 70s, low budget looking, redshirt dying, Captain Kirk as a pimp, green alien chick bedding, trouble with tribbles Star Trek.
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These still pop-up, especially when wielded by jokey guys like Guy Gardner, but most of the fighting does seem to be carried out by straight forward green (or yellow, or red, etc.) laser blasts.
I think it "makes sense" (in the sense that anything in superhero comics "make sense"), that a power that enables a person to conjure into reality their will, would draw from images of the subconscious of the user; ergo, thinking "I want to punch this guy" creating a Giant Fist "makes sense." whether or not you think that is silly or really neat is wholly a subjective judgement. I used to think the Green Lantern thing was kinda silly too, until I started reading the books and found them to be totally fucking awesome. Now its easily one (or two) of my favorite books. Its easily the best thing DC has going. Now I'm wondering, who would win in a Big Cosmic Throwdown -- the GREEN LANTERN CORPS vs. the NOVA CORPS?!?! (NOVA easily being one of Marvel's best books going.) -
I have to agree, Batman versus Grayson would be the Ultimate Batman story. Fuck his final fight with the Joker, fuck his final fight with Superman. It is master versus apprentice, "father" versus "son", the oldest story in the book. And like you said, they didn't hold back it would be awesome.
I would also love to see Penguin versus Joker. Everyone mocks the Penguin and treats the Joker as the greatest thing ever in comics. I think he should be taken down a notch, and the fat guy with an umbrella is just the man to do it. -
Seriously. There's no way those guys are alive.
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Was when Sue Richards ate all those Hostess "Cream Pies".
(Giggle) -
Skrulls baby!!
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I don't really care about DARK REIGN at all. I'm still reading THUNDERBOLTS (cause its friggin great), and I'll keep reading the Avengers books (for now), but the real excitement at Marvel these days are the cosmic stories. And WAR OF KINGS is already shaping up to be another homerun.
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And the final battle was totally lame; but it did leave the Marvel Universe in an interesting place. Oh, and the Black Panther crossover was EASILY the best of the SI related titles.
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Wait, one of you assholes just endorsed downloading comics? Thanks a ton, loser. 'Preciate the $3.99 price tag.
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Is that Dracula has a moon base and is making deals with Doctor Doom.
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I almost forgot about Captain Britain and the MI13. That book is friggin' great too.
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I don't think Dark reign is "about" anything, really, its more of a set-up, an umbrella situation for other stories to work under. Marvel's company line has been pretty adamenant that its not an event. I think its just a new status quo.
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And I love that they are trying to put Dracula in the same level as Doctor Doom, Magneto, Red Skull and the other world conquerors as one of the big villains of the world.
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I guess the Inhumans didn't notice??? He probably lives on the dark side of the moon.
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I assume he lives on the Darkside
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Are you TRYING to goad me here? LOL Come on now.......One of the biggest bad asses in the Marvel U vs......a giant green suitcase or something? "Nova, I think its just about time you.....PACKED it in!! And did I mention I'm not scared of anything? Spiders, Robin's little green tights, Nicholson in The Shining, Christian Bale when I walk across his film set, un-scareable I am!! Wait, what? I did mention it? Wait, HOW many times?"
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I shit you not. Go to Youtube and type in "hulk hogan green lanten" and see for yourselves.
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If you ever needed any other proof that anything GL is inherently uncool by nature, that video pretty much locks it up.
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Feb 04, 2009 4:21:09 PM CST
"Nova, I think its just about time you.....PACKED it in!!"
by laserpants
Hahahahaha! I love both books, but your disdain for GL is really funny.
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And "swam" the rest of the way. Or maybe he hitched a ride on a rocket ship? I dunno. But he has a castle on the moon now and that is awesome!
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The Wachowskis never really had a trilogy of films planned out in the first place. The first one was successfull so some studio head probably asked if they had any ideas for a sequel? Then they came out with the whole trilogy idea. The Matrix ends with Neo flying into the sky. The other two were just rushed, money grabs.
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So aside from describing the art and saying that the book is as good as Walking Dead and 30 Days of Night. What is the book actually about? I can't stand people who review comics without actually telling us what they're about.
I don't mean what happens in them page for page, but come on give us a some info on the plot of the book. Motivate us to actually want to read these graphic novels you're pimpin' out. -
Feb 04, 2009 4:36:52 PM CST
Joenathan, if you want to know why GLs make boxing gloves...
by bottleimp
...check out Gerard Jones' GREEN LANTERN: MOSAIC series from the early '90s. Hal Jordan and John Stewart go at it for one issue, and Stewart thinks something along the lines of: "we Lanterns fight with boxing gloves and boomerangs and plumber's helpers. Why? Because it's fun."
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About Joenat's question about why GL using a boxing glove as a weapon; the reason for this was put most eloquently by Neil Gaiman in the 1602 miniseries, when Ben Grimm asked Reed Richards why he never was able to cure him. Although it sounded dickish, Reed said (and I'm paraphrasing) that he could, but he would revert to the Thing every time because they are all part of a story and Grimm staying in the Thing form made for a more interesting story. Gaiman broke the fourth wall a bit with that, but it is a good way to explain all of the logistical questions that pop up from time to time in comics. Simply put, a giant boxing glove is much more fun to read about than a boring force blast. And that's why it exists.
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Even during the SCW where thousands of Green Lantern Redshirts are dying? Even then?
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"Get a grip. It's comics." Sometimes a story that goes from A to B to C is a lot more fun to read than an A to B story. Not to hard to comprehend.
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I get the visual "because its a comic" reason. I'm asking if anyone tried to give a comic book "real world" reason. I hope there's a better one than: because its fun. I like Continentalop's explanation (as a focusing tool), but I was wondering if there is an official one. As in, if the Guardians ever explain it.
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It's a horror story that follows a young woman who lost the woman she loves and her not accepting her lover's death. After a few ambigous occurrences, she doubts her lover is dead and goes to FLorida to dig up her grave. There she runs into a zombie conquistador, a wholly mammoth, and a bunch of zombies. It's all in the review, but here it is all spelled out fer ya.
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Joenathan, you are basically arguing logic in a medium where logic is best left out. Why can't people tell that Clark Kent is Superman? Why does the Spirit where a mask, and how does it stay on? Why does Captain Marvel Jr. have a name he can't say? Why doesn't the Hulk's pants fall off? Why does the Avengers meet in full costume, or have bbq's in their costumes? Why don't they have pockets?
Because as some writer once put it (I think it was Alan Moore but I could be wrong) the more you try to make comic book realistic, the less realistic it becomes. So basically, don't worry to much about it. It is a medium about expression and metaphor, not about complete 100% realism.
And frankly, a superhero world where heroes have pockets and don't where their costumes during a BBQ is not a superhero world I want to be a part of. -
You want a No Prize, right JoeNathan? A explanation for something zany. Let me think about it and see if I can come up with why GL's make boxing gloves. I am sure there is an answer.
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I bet he got a hold of the blueprints for Prof. Power's old flying castle.
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why the Gl's make those tools and shit with their rings, I get it in the context of DC logic (its the expression of the inner mentality, which is why John Stewart has logical, architecture-like constructs and Guy has unruly combat-style ones, which I'll admit is a cool idea) and I get it in real-world mentality (because its fun to write and draw). I'm just saying, for me personally, I understand the reasons, but that doesnt make it any less corny as balls. Thats why Batman didnt beat Jordan's ass why Hal Jordan stepped to him: because he realized deep down inside that he's the Batman AKA the baddest mutha fucka in the DCU, and Jordan is the guy who beats his opponents by making a giant green hammer appear and bonk them on the head while John Stewart exclaims "Wow Hal, I guess you really....NAILED him, right??". I mean, its already over before Bats throws a punch.
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Sure Jordan makes giant hammers, but Batman is armed with every useless gizmo in his belt and has a bunch of vehicles and they are all named bat-something. Batarangs, Bat-bolos, Batmobile, Bat-copter, Bat-boat, Bat -Shark repellant. Plus, Jordan might say a bad pun but nothing matches the inane dialogue of Batman and Robin. "Holy Giant Umbrellas, Batman! Penguin is getting away." "Don't worry, old chum. This is one bird that isn't going to fly away."
You can't use selective memory and just think of what they have done with Batman in say the last 20 years. He has as corny, or even cornier, history than Hal Jordan and the GL Corps ever has. Two words: Rainbow Batman! -
I guess it's a matter of taste. To me it's the same reason people like Star Trek over Star Wars (Nucking Futs, you've got it backwards). Star Wars (at least the original films) were more into the mythic iconography and less into the technical stuff, whereas Star Trek's entire universe seemed to be steeped in real life science. I think that's the same reason that there's a term for dedicated Marvel fans, Marvel Zombies (Trekkies), and no equivalent for DC (Star Wars). Avid fans (Zombies, Trekkies) ask those logical questions that sometimes (at least to me) takes the fun out of reading comics and take the material way too seriously. The DC fan is ok with the mythic, trapped in amber feel and chooses not to ask too many questions because when you do you get boring midochloian counts and anti-life equations that shatter the founddations with which they were built and leave you realizing how silly it all is. I'd rather not ask those questions and focus on things like plot, characterization, and continuity when I complain or critique books because the other stuff makes me question why I read these books in the first place.
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They'd break their zombie legs.
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And Zack Snyder.
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It isn't a zombie. Call it a ghoul, call it a revenant, but don't call it a zombie.
I am an old fashion man. I like my beer cold, my dinner hot and my zombies slow. -
suck. Thats why they always have to fall back on the old tried and true "backing into the dark corner and OOOPS theres a zombie lurking there in the dark!!" trap when using slow zombies. Why? Because anything that, if you were in an open field, is no threat to you generally isnt scary. Kirkman knew this, which is why Walking Dead isnt actually about zombies, he saw the trap and avoided it. You run out of ways to make slow zombies scary or a threat after about......45 minutes of screen time, or 15 issues, whichever medium comes first. Oh and by the way.........Bug used my phrase!! I WIN!!!! LOL I'm the Norman Osborne of this talkback!!
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Thats why, for all my personal disdain, I get why people read GL, I really do. I'm just not one of those people, and thats my last word on it for this week. In the words of Hal Jordan creating a giant green cooler full of giant green ice to trap his opponent, im just going to.....CHILL OUT.
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I just re-read Final Crisis #7. I don't understand everything that happened. Is that normal? Why is batman with Antrho? Why all the confusing flashbacks mid-story. What the hell?
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28 Days Later are infected humans very much alive; they just have some kinda effed up Super Rabies. Romero's Zombies are undead humans brought back to life by who knows what.
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By the way, here is a link to all the hostess ads.
http://tinyurl.com/3ks4w
Personal favorite: Captain America bribing the Cosmic Cube with a delicious Twinkie so it will turn against the Red Skull. -
Why don't the GL's ever make a green Angelina Jolie love-doll and fuck it? Hell, if I had a ring I'd be cruisin' around in my green Jaguar going to my green Playboy Mansion and doing all the green playmates throughout history!!!
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Just don't. I bought the 3-D final crisises just because I like 3-D. So what? You like DC? Also this Vigilante series is pretty cool. Lets see how Mighty The Mighty really is.
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The reason why is because Hal Jordan and the other GLs like actual woman, not make believe woman. I mean, they could make a green RealDoll or they could get a REAL woman. I think one of the definitions of being fearless is not being afraid to try to pick up a flesh and blood female.
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Or maybe it was Guy, but I seem to remember one of the Green Lantern lounging and whipping up some green chicks in french maid costumes to serve them drinks.
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Uhhh yeah, they like real women, not make believe women that are in....say...A COMIC BOOK!! Just the other day I saw a Green Lantern screwin' Paris Hilton on TMZ. WTF dude, it's a COMIC BOOK!! You could have at least seen that I was making a joke and respond with something like, "Just make sure you wear a yellow rubber, cause you know those green bitches got somethin'".
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Going to be Green Lantern? Or something else Green?
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Just because it is a comic book doesn't mean we have to pull out the old clichés about comic book readers: that they horny losers who can't get laid and just have stupid sex fantasies. Just because Comic Book Guy is such a great comic character doesn’t mean we actually should try to imitate him in real life. And no, I am not accusing you of being a loser who can't score with real women, I am just saying that entire “Hey, lets use our power rings to make green blow dolls” kind of jokes just aren’t funny to me. But hey, to each their own.
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I'd like to argue more about your obvious sexual repression but unfortunately, I'm tired and I just found out that Lux Interior from The Cramps just died, so I'm kinda bummed right now. R.I.P. Lux and my condolences to Poison Ivy.
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But I lean more in favor of Marvel. Most of the BIG TWO books I buy are Marvel books, but I friggin' LOVE Green Lantern. I also read Action and Detective pretty regularly. But yeah, most of my BIG TWO pulls are Marvel.
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Did you know? Also, functioning adults with girlfriends, wives, fuck buddies, and families read comic books these days, so the "comic book guy" cliche thing, though funny, doesn't really apply across the board anymore. Thats like saying, "people who read are nerds!" Really? Then I guess I'm a fucking nerd then.
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seriously, this is the best arc so far.
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Seriously, anyone who has EVER followed the Legion ought to be reading this.Geoff Johns will save us all.....
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Steven Grant has a well-done dissertation on Final Crisis in Newsarama.
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That's what FC seemed like to me. It was like a collection of "coming attraction" previews from various movies randomly cut together. Jumping back and forth. Not a real movie in and of itself but teasers trying to get you to go SEE other movies.(and the movies they are pushing all suck) Trying to get you interested enough to want to know the rest of what is going on..so go buy the other titles. Yet packaging the whole thing as a blockbuster event movie.
Same thing with the DCU Halloween special i piked up last year. So many of DC's titles seem to be showcases for thinly disguised ads to get you to go buy their lesser titles.
Boiled down it seemed like Morrison had these random ideas of changes he wanted to make to DC he had thought of over the years. a oh wouldn't it be cool if..?" collection. And this was just an excuse to showcase them and shoehorn them into the continuity. -
I love how casually and nonchalantly he rolls up those guys in concrete and crushes then to death. Seriously, the looks on their faces are so "What the HELL? I'm freaking Wile E Coyote over here!" Made me laugh when I first saw it and still makes me grin.
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Holy crap, that actually makes sense of it all. Seriously, I see what you are saying. It doesn't fix all the other many layered problems i have with the whole fiasco but it does bring it into focus.I'm just a bit disappointed in myself for not clueing in on that sooner.
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Did you ever play MK vs DCU? If you play the DCU story line, Lex Luthor has a rant about The Green Lanterns and their being undeserving of their power rings. "Boxing gloves! Giant hands! You don't have the intelligence and imagination to wield such power! I do! I will take you ring..now!" or something like that. I thought it was pretty true to his character and spot on.
I always thought the created these shapes to help them focus on the purpose of what they wanted to archive. Sort of a mental crutch, a visualization tool. The energy is only limited by their will power, so these inventions help them with that. Luthor's genius and extremely strong will would make him able to use it in the manner you are describing, I bet. -
Help me out, please! Which title/issues? I grew up reading the Marvel version of Dracula and have the original run LOVE their take on him and borrowed inspiration from it when I play him on stage around Halloween. (Local theatre does a version of Dracula to boost funds)
Anyway, they have been upping his status o world threat for decades. I am biased but I have no problems seeing him as a Dr Doom level threat. In the Ultimate FF it was stated he and Doom were related.
Anyway, I missed this completely. where is he these days? Thanks -
I just checked the web. It's not Marvel's Dracula on the moon with a secret base, is it? ::hangs head in shame:: Total spastic comic book Dracula fan freak out in a public forum. The shame! The shame!
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Who knew Hulk was a proponent of the "broken windows" theory of crime prevention in a 1970's and pre-Guilliani NYC? MR X: Anyone who has read MR. X comics (all 12 of us, probably), should pick up TERMINAL CITY - also by Motter. Has a similar visual and pulp aesthtetics - a neat mix of 1939 World' Fair and Philip Marlowe. Cool stuff. TEENAGE SIDEKICKS: Chabon had it right in Kavelier and Clay when he wrote that Robin, Bucky, and the other multifarious sidekicks of comic's Golden Age, served as stand ins for juvenile male reader, and the superhero was stand in for the father (that young boys want to spend time with, emulate, and grow up into). And coming full circle, since most comic reader are now in their 30's (damn you, Time - stop now), married, have kids, mortgages, and working to support those things, and, alas, no longer have the luxury of living at home, the sidekick convention becomes a bit of comic silliness that become harder to accept; Unlike GL power rings which are the shizznet.
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Here's why: I always liked Star Wars better because their ships looked like equipment, there were wires and tubes and ladders with rungs, they were dirty and didn't always start. Star Wars (the original at least) seemed like a lived in galaxy.Same with Marvel. Like I've said before: I've always preferred Marvel because their stories have always been about the man behind the mask, Spider-man is more about Peter PArker than Spider-man, where as DC is more about the mask. Its always been obvious that Batman is the real guy and Bruce wayne is just the mask he wears during the day.I view Star Trek as the same, both places are sterile and surface. Generally. I mean, I still enjoy both, I just think it should be: Star Wars/Marvel and DC/Star Trek.
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Exactly, I'm just curious and frankly, would be really surprised that no one ever tried to explain it beyond "Its fun and I'm a retard!" I mean, you have a boxing glove and you have a concussive blast. Both of these things hit and thats it, there's no discernable bonus that I can see as to choosing one over th other, so why go to the extra effort of imagining and willing into existance a giant boxing glove.I'd just think that someone at some point tried to give it a valid and Lantern relavent reason.Also, 28 Days Later wasn't a zombie movie, since there were no living dead or voodoo contolled ghouls.
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Different people have different ideas. THERE is your explanation. If it's not good enough for you then the problem is solely yours.
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The rings do sense and select people based on some inner criteria. Maybe they deliberately choose people who are noble in spirit, strong in will and a kid at heart. That way the ring won't end up in the hands of a Lex Luthor, despite his brilliance. Or The Joker, despite his creative genius imagination. The Ring WANTS someone who would rather use a boxing glove instead of a concussion blast. Hal Jordon 'out grew" his boxing glove phase and turned into a super villain, didn't he?
So in a way, DC has provided an explanation. They want someone with their inner child still intact, and all the heroic idealism that goes with it. -
but I don't have a problem with it, I'm just asking if any true GL fans out there remember if any of the writers ever tried to give it a viable reason. Try to read slower in the future if it will help your reading comprehension.Thats possible Spike, I can see the noble part, but inner child is kind of nebulous and I'd say that Jordan's inner child is much different than Gardners or Kyles or John Stewarts.Like I said, I accept Continentalop's explanation of it being a focusing tool (I think you said it too, Spike), but now I'm really just curious if anyone ever tackled an attempt at an explanation. I'd be surprised if no one ever did.Also, also, you know who'd get me really fired up to read Green Lantern? Warren Ellis.
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Green Lantern Rings choose bearers based on their ability to overcome fear. Yellow Rings select their bearers for their ability to instill fear. Blue rings choose based on having and being able to inspire hope. Red rings choose bearers with immense rage. Orange rings choose predatory beings. Indigo staves choose compassionate beings. The Violet rings choose great love (though they convert as aggressively as the Reds do).Yeah, I've totally geeked on John's extrapolation of the Lantern mythos so what?
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A Fanboy....it's a material manifestation of an internal thought and doesn't require any thought past that except as a fanboy point to nitpick (like you are).NO, what you are really asking is "Why hasn't anyone thought about this like I have?" Which A) they surely have and B) like the rest of us realized it was merely nitpicking.
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What "rest of us" are you speaking of? It seems from reviewing the posts in this talkback, for example, I'd say probably 40% of the TBers seem a little confused by the entire GL thing. It seems so nebulous that it just screams out for nitpicking. For example, overcoming fear? Thats it? Deathstroke the Terminator has never felt fear that I can ever remember and seems to have one of the most creative minds in the DCU. Should he be a Lantern? No? Why, because he's evil? So it ISNT just overcoming fear? I'm not defending JoeN per se, he can be a bit trollish, but if what he is really asking is "Why hasn't anyone thought about this like I have?", then what your really asking is "Why doesn't everyone find the GL mythos as cool as I do?". 40% of this talkback clearly is completely familiar with the GL story, has kicked around the pros and cons, and has chosen to reject it.
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It's a few people offering perfectly valid explanations and one person simply not even wanting to attempt to listen to other opinions simply for the sake of argument. 40% of this talkback is JoeNat repeatedly saying the same thing over and over and over and over because he's always posting with the same repeated argument, never listens to opinions other than his own, and deems those opinions null and void simply because of close-mindedness.
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I haven't 'asked' anything in any of these posts. I've 'stated' several things however. Not trying to be dick to you but seriously, you cannot show me a single post where I am seeking endorsement from anyone posting. I say what I think and leave it at that. And also regarding your statement that Deathstroke has never felt fear isn't a rationale to make him a GL candidate as he is FAR more likely to instill it. OF COURSE there is further detail such as that the GL rings do tend to choose individuals based on their ability to overcome fear AND having a great reservoir of willpower. Anyone who has actually been reading the books wouldn't have to ask these questions making the questions.Lastly, the 'rest of us' would be the other 60%.
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That's what I get for posting while working at the same time.
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I'm just asking if there is an official explanation, like, what issue can I go read? I'm NOT disputing it, for fucks sake, I'm NOT argueing it, I'm NOT dsimisiing it... I want to read it! Jesus, people, I'm just asking if the fans can point me in the right direction, because I assumed that they might know, because I'm curious as to the explanation. I don't want YOUR explanation, either, because I can make up shit too, I'm wondering about canon. Is there one? Can any of you help? I'm not saying why don't they think like me, I'm saying that I'd be surprised if no one ever made a story out of it, because it might be neat. God damn, unbunch your panties, folks and help a brother out a bit.
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If you read Johns' GL from REBIRTH up till now and still have nitpicky questions as to why a bexing glove is necessary, then I don't know what to tell you. You may not find the explanation you are looking for for the boxing glove, but I'm pretty sure you won't care because it's a damn fine story with or without an explanation for the boxing glove.
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That the GL rings create constructs that their bearers imagine IS canon and always has been.
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I was just using that as an example, more so, I'm wondering about the constructs in general. Like I said, I like Continentalop's and Spike's ideas. They make sense, they're appropriately comic booky. I accept them, but since no one here has mentioned DC's reason's during the course of this conversation, besides: "its fun." now I'm just curious about the official reason, but since you don't know, thanks I appreciate the effort. Does anyone else know where I might look, maybe?Also, how's Invincible been lately? I stopped reading trades a while back, I don't know why, and I'm thinking about diving back in? Good? Bad? Thoughts?
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That is an excellent explanation of why use a boxing glove instead of a concussive beam. Kudos to you!
I have to agree with the original assessment that Star Trek is more like Marvel and Star Wars is more DC, although I can see arguments either way. Ultimately, though, DC is very Joseph Campbell, very archetypal and iconic. Star Wars, too.
I am not a fan of either Star Trek or Star Wars, to be honest. Star Wars is like Superman, and both leave me cold (obviously this is just me since they are both the epitomes of success in their areas). My personal favorite DC character is Harley Quinn, and she doens't even have an alter ego.
Star Trek characters seem more human and that is a Marvel characteristic. -
As I've stated many times, I've read em. Clearly, the hardcore GL fan cant accept that someone could read the last 4+ years of stories and not like them (it must be that they just didnt read them), but I have, and I didnt. Guy training the hot GL trainee who leaves and goes and joins that "Elite" GL unit or whatever? They can kill, right? Yeah, read all that. Kyle trapped by the fear entity in his own head, and stumbles across some picture his mom painted? Yep. Even stumbled across Emerald Dawn II in an old stack of comics and read all 6 issues cover to cover (they were actually pretty cool, although very DC-ish), I think I've gone out of my way not to attack those who DO like GL, I'm just kind of pointing out the obvious absurdities of it. GL fans tend not to deal in absurdities, however, the Dead Sea Scrolls didnt get treated with as much reverence as Rebirth. And damn Bug, remind me not to get on your bad side!! LOL to paraphrase Ferris Bueller "Why Bug, you sounded like Dirty Harry just then!"
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Splitting off topic a little. I didn't know those rules had been stated out right like that, Psynapse. Been to long since I read The Green Lantern titles. All the 52 and Crisis stuff scared me away from DC (except Joker comics I still grab them when I see them)
It has been stated outright in DC cannon that The Joker's psychosis makes him almost immune to fear. Even Scarecrow gas and super villains whose power is to mentally attack people with their greatest fear have no effect on him. If he feels any effect, its enjoyment.
I'd love to see the transition of a Ring go wrong some how and Joker get one by mistake.
Hell, he and Scarecrow qualify for Yellow rings legitimately. He would also qualify for orange I would think.
I'd just like to see a storyline where he got a great deal of power like that to make up for the awful mishandling of "Emperor Joker." I hated that, I really did.
Sound like I need to pick up the trade of Sinestro Corp -
Appreciate it. :)
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Not sure exactly which was which, but I do remember him talking about Kilowog using the less imaginative and more direct concussive force beams you speak of. John Stewart created intricate architectural designs because he's an architect. Kyle's force was imaginative because of his profession as an artist. Hal was a hotshot pilot. Which is all about showing off. Maybe Hal created the gloves to serve as a way to show off and humiliate his foes. Imagine Black Hand sitting in prison, holding his head in his hands and saying, "I got beat by a green boxing glove."
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I'm not getting any work done today because I am enjoy this talk back so much, but..
that's an excellent point and it made me think of other aspects to. Every one's personality is different and their manifestation of their powers would reflect that. But it is also a great psychological advantage. I bet 90% of comic book character shoot some form of beam or another. And giant hands are associated with over whelming someone. It like "Look, dumb ass, this is already over. You got your little power beams? I have Giant God Smack Hand Bitch Slap!"
Reminds me of John Cleese solution to the Fish Slapping Dance. -
Ok, this isn’t an official explanation but it is MY explanation for this argument. The reason why GL creates a fist instead of making a concussion bolt is because – you ready for this – he doesn’t read comics.
Let me explain.
I started looking through my archives of Green Lantern, Justice League and even the Golden Age GL and JSA, and I was looking to see if they gave an explanation. And then I realized something: why the hell would GL make a laser or energy blast when he has never read a comic book? I mean, the idea of shooting beams out of your hands seems normal to us guys because we grew up on a diet of comic books since we could read, but to a “normal” man, especially one from 1959 (the year Hal Jordan appeared) the idea of suddenly shooting a blast of pure energy or force from you hands must have seen completely alien and impossible. If you were going to attack someone at a distance armed with a Power Ring, you’d have to visualize something that you could imagine hurting him, hence flying green fist and huge hammers.
After a while you’d start getting comfortable with it, and even a little cocky, so you’d start throwing in giant tennis rackets and golf clubs and fly swatters. And I actually believe the absurd stuff is realistic; it is part of Hal Jordan’s macho image. Just like a gorilla will pull down trees and slam his chest before a fight to display that he has excess energy that he can waste on showing off his strength, or how a prize fighter will dance around and showboat to show how tough he is and how much disdain he has for his opponent, Hal Jordan will waste time and concentration to make extra detailed energy constructs when he fights. “Guess what Sinestro, I think so little of you that I am going to spend extra concentration on how well designed my energy construct is and hit you with a replica of a Lincoln town car!” I mean, if you are fighting someone who is making energy constructs of giant hands, scissors and a giant Phillips screwdriver, you’re not thinking this guy is a loser, you’re thinking “This guy thinks so little of me and is so confident in his abilities he making a joke out of this fight.”
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Ambush Bug and SpikeTBB made my argument before I could. And in less words.
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what we're thinking here then is: Green Lanterns don't HAVE to use the constructs, but they do anyway, just for the heck of it? Is that the consensus?I just imagined there would be like a basic training scene or something where Kilwog goes on about how he's go a fucked up looking alien mouth and that all lanterns have to visualize a specific object when using the ring because it focuses their intent and will into a specific action and therefore makes it more powerful or something so that if they were to use, say, a generic concussive blast instead, then they wouldn't get as much energy output as they would if they imagined an atomic laser cannon... something like that to explain why they use the constructs in the first place.But I take it that there isn't one?Its like when they used to do pin-ups of a cross section of Avengers Mansion or the PITT or a tour of the Batcave or the Marvel andbook devoted to various people's gear, I've always liked that kind of explanation/origin stuff, so thats why I wanted to know.
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The rings operate thusly: Activated by the bearers willpower, the action commenced is shaped by the bearers imagination. That's it.
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Now that is used to explain his particular type of constructs, BUT by your reasons, it doesn't explain why he doesn't just shoot lasers.
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Wat. To. Backpedal. I'm impressed!
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I'm out.
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The non-human GLs usually only fire energy blasts. At least during the Gil Kane stories. Go back and read those, when the GL Corps was first introduced, they are usually shown firing energy blast or pretty bland constructs. Maybe it is only the GLs of earth, who are from more primitive backgrounds, who can't fire energy blast and have to make solid objects.
Another thing, not to get all technical, is that a roundhouse energy fist might actually do more damage than a concussion blast. Force is equal to mass x velocity. Well, a concussion blast might have more velocity, but it certainly doesn't have nearly as much mass a giant fist or hammer. By creating giant objects the GLs might actually be inflicting more damage on an opponent (plus the surface of the striking object is bigger, giving you a better chance of hitting). -
Because he IS a comic book fan, and is familiar with all the GL. He suffers from preconceived notions that GLs make large objects. Hence, instead of creating a blast like Silver Surfer would, he makes energy constructs like the previous GLs did.
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Feb 05, 2009 1:53:15 PM CST
Wait--no one has commented on Wayne and the naked aborigine??
by jasonpratt
My mind is boggling. This _is_ AICN, right...?
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dudeI get it, okay?I understand what powers the ring, seriously, I get it. alright?The question we're discussing is why use constructs in the first place? What is the constructs practical application? Is there a specific reason that the ring bearers must imagine something in detail? Maybe somewhere from Lantern mythos?ok?We all get that the ring is powered by will and imagination. Now, I realize you would rather that we not explore its deeper workings, but I'm curious, so I'm asking.So relax, I love Green Lantern, I'm not attacking him.
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that makes sense, I can see the roundhouse thing being a stronger hit, now maybe its because his mind equates it with a stronger hit, who knows? As for the non-humans, I wondered about that too. Do we ever see any of them running someone over with an alien car? I'm surprised no GL writer hasn't attempted to nail this down a bit.I suppose thats true with Kyle, his first outfit was just like Hal's after all. Does he still have that weird mask?
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I wish we could get Geoff Johns on this TB and just pepper him with excessively nerdy questions about the technical aspects of Green Lantern’s powers and why different ones make different constructs etc… I could read that for hours. I think Joenathan has a great question, how does Killwog train new Lanterns? I wonder if they start with regular beams for awhile and then Hal comes in as a guest lecturer and shows them how to make huge anvils and golf clubs and whatnot, then Kyle shows them how to make giant Robotech suits, and then finally Guy eventually comes in (late) and shows them how to make half naked green serving girls. Jon Stewart doesn’t come in at all because he is in the loony bin after accidently killing a billion aliens and they don’t let him near the new guys, plus he just makes sniper rifles, which although super effective never sat well with the bigwigs back at OA.
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This sort of counts as canon, but the explanations for why Ring users go through the motions they do hew very well to how the Rings are used in the Dini/Timm Superman-Justice League animated series. Sinestro creates fear and is an egotist. Kyle is an artist (and flummoxes Sinestro, whom he isn't expected to win again, with his creative abilities). Stewart isn't an architect, but an ex-Marine, so his uses tend to be very simple and directly functional (plus when he has to re-learn how to use it, we discover he had loads of trouble the first time, too.) But as a kid, he comes up with too many creative ideas; and gets mocked for doing so (until Batman realizes he's more effective that way, and encourages him to go nuts with it).
Kyle and Sinestro introduced in STAS ep "In Brightest Day". Stewart has trouble retraining in part 2 of JL ep "Hearts and Minds". Stewart as a child acting more like stereotypical Green Lanterns, in JLA ep featuring Morgan Le Fay's son. -
Has it held up? I dropped off around trade number 4. How is the story currently? I'm probably going to the LCS tonight, so...
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I don't see The Invisible Woman having these same problems. Although it would be cool to see an "invisible" fist being drawn instead of all those bubble and round shapes.
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that super-powered beings would take the time to change into brightly colored body stockings before beating the crap out of each other (aside from professional wrestling), then the idea of saving the day with a fruit-filled pastry is not that much more of a stretch.
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Feb 05, 2009 3:06:16 PM CST
I want to know about Yankee Poodle, dammit! And Batman too
by homer sexual
The GL discussion took over everything, and I think people aren't posting about Batman and the aborigine because who knows what that is all about? But somewhere in this talkback someone mentions who the abo is.
I am still trying to verify that Yankee Poodle and Co. are now apparently part of the regular DCU.
And another repetitious point, how can a reader expect to get real detail info from art? I always wonder if it is a mistake or not. For example, WW's demon mask was clearly only covering her lower face,but when she took it off and smashed it, it was clearly a full face mask with eyeholes. This is a mistake, no doubt about it. -
That was Anthro, wasn't it?
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but I did not give a second thought to Batman and the aborigine and I now realize why. At that point I was all "What EVER, man, what ever." They could have had Batman doing a four way with Fred, Barny and Dino and all of them repeatedly yelling "YABBA DABBA DOO!" and it wouldn't have registered as strange or note worthy.
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Feb 05, 2009 3:45:47 PM CST
One last stab at GL explanation, then I'll try to move on...
by ambush bug
Just imagine you're sitting in your easy chair, all comfy cozy and wrapped in your Snuggie. Then you realize that across the room, you forgot to grab the remote. Now imagine you have a power ring at your disposal. So, do you create a beam of light to envelope the remote and bring it to you or do you create a green hand to float over, pick up the remote, and bring it back to your lazy ass? You know which one you'd use.
Also, to explain the use of a boxing glove over, say, a regular hand, up until recently Hal had a strict code of non killing and he knows that a boxing glove will be able to incapacitate an opponent better than a bare hand which is likely to do more damage. Same reason why Green Arrow shot arrows with boxing goves rather than stabbing all of his opponents in the eyes with pointy arrowheads. It is a non-lethal means of taking out opponents. -
Feb 05, 2009 3:50:36 PM CST
As far as Yankee Poodle and the rest of the Zoo Crew are concern
by ambush bug
honestly I could care less. The only way the Zoo Crew in the DCU would be tolerable to me would be if they were cartoon characters that could turn into real animals at will, sort of like animal heroes in disguise.
And Spike's right, no one cares about the aborigine and Batman because by that time everyone tuned out. Not a big deal because no one understood or gave a shit by that point. -
...but the more I think about this the more I realize trying to put logic into why Green Lantern's makes shapes is pointless and a case of trying to rationalize something after the fact. The reason Green Lantern makes objects is because comics are a visual medium and his powers work perfectly for that medium. I think GL and Plastic-Man are the two most "comic book" comic book heroes ever made.
That is the last I will say about GL. Now I am going to try to figure out why my head hurts every time I think of FC. -
Feb 05, 2009 3:59:40 PM CST
Also if you want to talk about something that makes no sense...
by continentalop
...If Spider-Man has the proportionate strength of a spider, wouldn't that make him weaker than a normal man?
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That book is still going VERY strong. It's my favorite super-hero book out there. If you've only read the first 4 trades, you REALLY have no idea of the places this book goes. Good, good stuff. And Allen the Alien is the bomb, yo. Plus, who comes up with better throw-away super names than Kirkman? Twins that can create multiples: Dupli-Kate and Multi-Paul. Genius in the simplicity.
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If the spider can lift 10 times its weight, then Peter can lift the same amount proportionately.
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I remember liking it, but for some reason stopped. I'll take a look at some Invincible tonight.
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make Hal Jordan's giant green freezer look like the epitome of cool. Its been established I'm not the biggest GL fan, but goddamn, boxing glove arrows? L A M E. And I realized whoever gave the explanation for Hal's constructs (his cocky nature shining through) is absolutely right, which is why I think I dont like GL. Its not the big green boxing gloves, it's the characters themselves. I was one of the guys hoping Bats would regulate on that ass in Rebirth. As I'm reading this talkback, it dawned on me that I find Sinestro the epitome of a cool villian who kicks all kinds of ass, and he does that same lame ring shit as Hal. So there you have it, in Hutchy-verse, the rules are: Gls=pretty corny in execution but still kinda cool , Sinestro= awesome, John Stewart= boring as balls, Kyle Rayner= ghey star spangled 70's-ish mask, Guy Gardner= do something different with him, Hal Jordan= Epic Douche. Taaa Daaaaa!
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I'm not so focused on the boxing glove SPECIFICALLY, and more wondering about the constructs purposes themselves, that non-killing thing IS a good explanation for the big green punch.
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best use ever = Connor Hawke vs. the Key.
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That a spider is super small, and size increases your strength proportionately (or decreases it proportionately if you get bigger). If mass is cubed, your strength is only squared. Hence if you are 2 times taller, you would be 8 times heavier but only 4 times stronger. A spider just seems so strong because it is so small, but if you made it Peter Parker's size it probably couldn't move under its on weight.
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I never got that. How do they know how strong a spider is? Was there a way to test that? Did they have a spider doing squats with little spider-weights on its shoulders? Cant it lift 10 times its body weight because its body is actually really light? Why would a spider's strength, such as it is, transfer seeing as the human body is not remotely physiologically similar in any way to a spiders? These are the things that keep me up at night, and why I love Cap: hes a guy who fights good. With a shield. Period.
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Editor: "Whats this scene? IS Spidey lifting 25 tons?? Thats COMPLETELY disproportionate!!! It has to be proportionate, dammit!! You have skewed the spider-proportions COMPLETELY out of wack, for God's sake!! Spiders everywhere are laughing at this issue because of the proportions!"
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Got to respectfully disagree about Hal. To me he is the Tony Stark of the DC universe: confident, alpha male overachiever. Where Tony Stark is Howard Hughes, Hal Jordan is Chuck Yeager, living by the "right stuff" that astronauts and pilots in the 50s & 60s shared - the unspoken code of bravery and machismo that compelled these men to ride atop dangerous rockets. Plus, this guy had such balls that even before he got powers he was dating the bosses daughter and, after she took over, the boss herself and still blowing her off!
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maybe when he was down in his aunt's basement, creating a super adhesive that turns from gas to liquid upon contact with air, can lift and tank, then dissolve completely away in an hour AND a compact delivery system, he also created a microfiber exo-suit that he sewed into the costume that he made himself on his Aunt's sewing machine...
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Peter was bitten by an IRRADIATED spider. Who knows? Maybe the spider's exposure caused it to develop strength well beyond normal spider levels. It is Marvel, and they love their science-created powers. Unfortunately, the spider's small, frail body could not hold up to its new-found spider-awesomeness, and it died soon after passing the savings on to Parker.
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I am laughing at the idea of Marvel's editors having little spider olympics and weight-lifting competitions to see how much they can actually lift. I imagine they have these glass cases with all of these buff spiders hanging out.
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So you are saying he has the proportionate strength of a Hulk-spider?
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Someone should do a What If? --The spider that bit Peter Parker lived! And laid about 500 eggs, all of which spread over New York City biting people and creating multiple spider-folk.
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under Peter's skin!
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I know how much you guys love Millar, so there's an interview with him at Newsarama where he talk about how awesome he is and you know... I agree.
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Umm... does anyone see the disconnect here? Something like Batman can easily become "realistic" because he's just a guy in peak physical condition with a penchant for fetish wear. But even then, he does a ton of stuff thats far from realistic (or even plausible). I like realism and all that, but I can suspend my disbelief for stuff like radioactive spider bites giving you powers or magic cosmic space rings because, its, you know, fantasy. Realism is cool, but so is escapism.
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Which was my original point: that all comic book characters are inherently fake and ridiculous. And sometimes the more you try to make this "realistic", the more implausible and ridiculous they become.
It's like Batman. Everyone says he is the most realistic superhero and that he is the only superhero who could actually exist. Not the one in the comics, and not the one in the movies either. I mean, in my opinion he is faker than Spider-Man or Superman any day of the week. They at least have extraordinary powers to explain how they manage to survive fights with all these foes, Batman is just a normal human; highly trained and at peak condition, yes, but still just a normal human taking on guys like Solomon Grundy, Darksied, Clayface and a bunch of other guys who would probably kill in 30 seconds in the "real" world.
And that is why I like them. God bless comics. -
But I'm totally with LaserPants's earlier post - WAR OF KINGS has me jazzed. Finally, ass-kicking Inhumans! Black Bolt not wrestling over using his powers but unleashing them with full fury - AND in league with nutty bro Maximus?? (Plus Medusa in a smokin' new costume??) Fun stuff. DARK REIGN - sigh. Can't do another Bendis crossover. I don't have crossover fatigue - I have Bendis fatigue.
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...in the Spider-Man/Human Torch limited series a few years back was genius. (Spidey used the "Mostess Fruit Pies" as bait to defeat the Red Ghost's super apes - apes eating fruit pies. Gotta love that.) AND it featured the Spider-mobile! Good times...
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I'll always overlook the implausibilities, it IS comics after all. Shit, I read Thor, which is about a Norse city floating over Oklahoma. However, it IS fun to speculate about little gym-spiders working out to increase their proportionate strength. Oh, and the Punisher is the most realistic super hero.
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A ex-marine armed with guns taking down the Rhino or taking on Doom isn't realistic. Plus, he has never to my knowledge killed an innocent person. Considering how many people he has blown away, I imagine that he has wasted at least on undercover cop and one person who was there by accident.
The most realistic hero the Crusader, from a Alan Davis story. Guy had no powers and got shot to death in his very first appearance. Now that is realism! -
I mean: duh, but what else should we talk about? I mean, do you really have fun going "hey wasn't that comic cool?" " huh-huh...yeah."I think its fun to discuss the intracies, improbabilities and lunacies of comics. And really, if not here, then where?That being said, the most realistic hero is: Batroc the Leaper. You know its true.
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Believe me, Bane actually gets much better in the Secret Six, thanks mostly to Gail Simone's clever and unique characterizations. I don't want to spoil it, but he forms a very interesting bond with one of his teammates. And if that still doesn't work for you, all the other characters (including the hilariously evil bad guy) will make you laugh so hard you won't even notice.Sorry if I'm gushing, but I am currently in love with that series. Although, I will admit, the latest issue's kinda really slow.
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but have any of the different Lanterns ever been able to create something living or self-sustainable? Like any kind of organism?That's one limit isn't it? Could make for an interesting twist if it hasn't been done yet.
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I have yet to see a single issue of Green Lantern, but plan to eventually start with Rebirth, and move my way all the way up to current, stopping if I get tired of it of course, but if I DO like it, I'll just keep going with the trades.I've been getting into the more spacey comic book stuff since I started Guardians of the Galaxy.And I am royally stoked for War of Kings, if only after that glorious one shot.I am a Marvel man slowly beginning to pick up a few DC titles, Secret Six having become one of my new favorites. Also, I am ONLY a Star Wars fan. Star Trek is just boring, and nothing could ever beat Han Solo, lightabers, Wookies, Darth Vader, the Millenium Falcon, and don't even get me started on Empire Strikes Back. Star Trek has...phasers? and Spock? Shut the fuck up.The best comic I am reading now is a tie between and Guardians of the Galaxy (shame about the sucky new art), Daredevil (the Zatoichi and the Iron Fist inclusions are just too cool for me) Umbrella Academy.But I really love all those Marvel book comic thingies too. Dark Tower, The Stand, Wizard of Oz, and Ender's Game all rock the kazbah.Two others I enjoyed more than I expected were that Ennis Punisher mini and that gorgeous Sandman short, but they're over now. And Criminal was easily my favorite book of every month, but I guess that's on hold now too. Boy will I miss that book!Oh, and I was really digging The Twelve and War Heroes was looking VERY interesting, but where the hell are some new issues?And does anybody here especially love and remember that 10 issue mini of Omega the Unknown. Lordy, I thought that book was incredible.Okay, I guess now you have my entire recent comic collecting history. I guess I just wanna play catch up since I totally missed a lot of this talkback. Except of course Omega the Unknown, which I guess has become totally forgotten among comics fans. : (
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as far as training goes, it's more about the mind, it's not a physical thing, the laterns are chosen from the best in the universe, they already have what it takes. 7200 out of trillions of beings, they must be special.
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Well you're in luck since Johns'/Gibbons' Green Lantern Universe is the closest anyone has come to Star Wars since Empire.
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Maybe not the 616 Punisher but the MAX Punisher is realistic.
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but I just finished the latest issue of X-Factor. I am certainly going to respect the wishes of Peter David to keep all the secrets for the safety of the fans, even though I'm pretty sure I'll be the last one to have finally read the comic, but I just gotta say...it's the first comic book to make me cry.That was some mighty powerful writing and art. Probably the most affective book I have read in the last few years, seriously. The last ten pages of this blew the lid off of the emotional impact a comic can have.
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because the art in those earlier issues is some of the absolute worst shit I have seen in quite some time. Sheesh. Marvel, keep DeLandro on this book or a lot less people are going to buy it. I'm not trying to slight Peter David at all either. He's a great writer with a distinct knack for easy dialogue and subtle character moments. That's exactly why he deserves such a good artist with such a knack for incredibly good facial expressions to perfectly compliment him.
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is my favorite comic book of all time. Eh? Eh?
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You gotta get here earlier, bro. Do what the rest of us do and just hit refesh over and over on Wednesday. Oh, and you are right, GL=Star Wars, Annhilation was one of the best cosmic stories I've read in........forever, but it was nothing like Star Wars.
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Everything except the first 2 movies (DSW & TESB) has sucked rancid ass. Green Lantern Does not and never has to the degree that the Star Wars saga has.
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NO Lantern has ever tongued their sister.
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I never read Robert Kirkman's super-hero stuff, but I read The Astounding Wolf-Man tp and liked it a lot. I also read Millar and Hitch's FF... that was really bad, right? I want there to be a moratorium on alternate-timeline-save-the-world-gambits; it seems like that's every other story Millar writes.
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Like Substance Abuse & Wife-Beating, banal repetition is in their blood apparently.
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but I really enjoyed seeing Doom'd master killing all the heroes. Mmm-mmm... dystopian...
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Like running through the same one or two themes over and over and over and over ad nauseum? Pulling out the same bag of tricks that was played out 3 years ago? Impossible!! Surely you jest, sir!! I SAY THEE NAY!!!
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kills it on Walking Dead, if you can ignore the occasional pacing issues and his irrational insistence that Adlard actually has any ability whatsoever, despite his getting hundreds of letters a month about how all the characters look exactly the same. On his super hero stuff......hmmmm, so so, hit and miss.
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Kirkman is, I think, the one writer most guilty of being overly expository. There are issues where his characters "talk" back and forth, but really they're just peppering each other with five minute monologues. Plus, as much as I like the guy and his work, now, there's always a part of me that holds that stupid manifesto against him and always will.I don't know what you're talking about as far as Millar. Did Wanted and Old Man Logan have similiar ideas? No, none that I can see? What?
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is not hit-and-miss. That book is a top of the pile must read. Old school comic book feel with new school themes.
The Walking Dead is getting close to the cut-off for me. Only so much more talky angst I need to read. It would probably doom the book, but I'd love for Kirkman to explore how this all happened and get to the rebuilding of society. "World War Z" did a great job of showing what the impact on society might be and how folks would plan to take back their lives. I'd love to see Rick realize his potential as a leader again, get their act together and start kicking some zombie butt. A new writer might work? Blasphemous! -
No, the GL's cannot create life, The Guardians (Oans) wouldn't allow that. They're a police force and the rings are intended to be a pretty much all-purpose assistance tool.
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"Hey, Buzz, the Watchmen is very realistic.""Yeah, that kind of thing happens every day. I grew up with people like that,too. The blue radioactive guy used to teleport my lunch money away from me every day."
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"The blue radioactive guy used to teleport my lunch money away from me every day."What, were you one of those stupid poor kids wihout his own matter defragmenter? What a loser!
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It was a shame the guy in the flying monkey suit got written up for violating company dress code. And really, it had to be some jealous chick who turned in the girl from clerical in the fishnet, kevlar uni and cape.
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is the ability to turn the simplest task into a gigantic clusterfrak.
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shouldn't Spider-Man shoot webbing out of his ass?
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Always a good standby. No one is saying comics should be realistic, I'm using the "strength of a spider" routine with tongue fully planted in cheek. Just because you don't work with a guy who flies or something doesnt make comics exempt from certain standards of.......quality, I guess is the word I'm looking for? I find this discussion entirely hypocritical, as most of the reviewers on this site would bust a fuckin gasket if Bendis writes Iron Man in any way other then he has been written in the past......yet when I sit back and mention that GL is, by definition, a bit of a silly character, I get the "It's comics! What do you expect, it's just an escape from reality" routine. If you expect quality or a certain "level of examination" to be applied to the characters, it should be applied across the board, not just to the characters/writers you like or dislike.
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yeah, its funny how "its comics" is used as a shield for certain classic comic book tropes, but if you were to bring it while saying that a person is wasting their time bitching about a current status quo because the nature of comics is and always has been transient change and that they should just stop buying the comic for awhile until a new creative team comes along, well then its suddenly viewed as a massive sin.
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You are viewing a continuum where the laws of physics work differently (Something that could conceivably occur in our own continuum as well) due to a simple quantum variance.
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You just gave the best answer. And nerdiest. Now give me your lunch money.
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I don't mind you thinking that GL is a bit of a silly character, I just happen to disagree with you. I think there is a bunch of "sillier" characters, including some of the bigger names when you get down to it (including Superman and Batman).
But yeah, one of the fun things as a comic reader is to sometimes point out the inherently ridiculous nature of it. I mean, we probably have all thought about Wonder Woman's invisible plane and wondered what good is that if a villain can still see a chick squatting at 10,000 feet.
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Why is it invisible? Has DC ever put out an official explanation why?
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Feb 06, 2009 5:48:44 PM CST
Actually, Wonder Woman's invisible plane doesn't bother me
by continentalop
I don’t know why, but Wonder Woman’s invisible plane and all of the other wacky stuff about her seem to work for me. I know it was before Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces”, but I think William Marston was able to tap into human psychology and create a new mythology for a (then) modern era. And I am not talking about the use of Greek and Roman mythologies that are so prevalent in Wonder Woman, but instead the completely unique and original etiology and heroic myths of his comic book. The nonsensical nature of some of the stuff in the original Wonder Woman almost made it more magical and “believable”, in context of her being a mythological hero.
In actual myths the heroes and gods have such crazy tools and abilities, yet no one ever thinks of them being ridiculous or out of place. Hermes wears sandals with WINGS on them; Thor flew through the sky on a chariot pulled by GOATS; Odin rides a magical horse with eight frigging legs. No one sits there and thinks how ridiculous or impractical those items really are – they are magical symbols and that’s that. I think Wonder Woman’s invisible plane is the modern counterpart to these items. Something that was very much like the mundane objects found in the real world, but also so very magical and different from any of them.
That why I think sometimes having an explanation for everything is bad; in mythology you don’t want a rational explanation, and sometimes you don’t want that in a comic book either. It robs it of magic. Just look at Wonder Woman. All the attempts in the last two decades to make here more “realistic” and explain everything about her has just made her seem less interesting, in my opinion.
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...characterization. Best summed up by Alan Moore in a faux letter page for his masterwork 1963: "...you characters talk and behave just like real people. No one I know personally but..."
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But....but...But..I'm telling!! *goes hungry yet again*
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