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‘The Hour’s Getting Late!!’ Herc Gives Friday's First New GALACTICA Of 2009 Five Stars!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Some notes on tonight’s well-worth-the-wait don’t-miss-at-any-cost episode of “Battlestar Galactica.”
* If you want to see the first 90 seconds, click here.
* The revelations in the first 10 or 15 minutes of are so staggering in their hugeness, you may feel like you’re watching the first few minutes of the series finale.
* Baltar’s back in labcoat, and in superscientist mode. No worshippers lurking about.
* We learn how long ago the planet was nuked.
* Anders finds a guitar neck.
* Dualla cries over a set of jacks she finds in the sand.
* Starbuck & Leoben decide to explore the planet together.
* Dualla babysits Hera for Athena & Helo. This scene may prove important later.
* A major character speaks the words, “What am I?”
* Six finds something astonishing in the sand.
* Starbuck finds something astonishing in a field.
* Gaeta finds something astonishing in his bunkroom.
* Tyrol finds something astonishing in his brain.
* Leoben speaks the words, “I was wrong.”
* Roslin comes to some very big decisions. Mary McDonnell may be the finest dramatic actress on the planet.
* An enraged William Adama has a memorably tense conversation with his executive officer. It begins with the words, “Sit down, Cylon.”
* Lee will adjust the number on the whiteboard.
* At least one character will begin hiding a big new secret.
* The final scene deleted from screeners forwarded to the press is said to contain the identity of the 12th and final Cylon. Which means I'll be watching tonight as well.
* How does your screener end, spoiler boy? “Just ride the tide out to sea,” Tigh tells his fellow Cylon.
10 p.m. Friday. SciFi.
15-Inch HDTV/DVD Player
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Yesterday It Was $269.95!!
SRP Is $299.99!!
SALE EXPIRES IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS!!
This business will get out of control!! It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it!!
247-Title 3-For-2 Blu-ray Sale!!
15-Inch HDTV/DVD Player
Toshiba Combo For $199.99!!
Yesterday It Was $269.95!!
SRP Is $299.99!!
SALE EXPIRES IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS!!
This business will get out of control!! It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it!!
247-Title 3-For-2 Blu-ray Sale!!
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Man, it seems like its been FOREVER! Lets hope Ron Moore delivers us BSG's finest season!
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I got the beer and I have pizza on speed dial. This is my Superbowl. Bring on the toasters!
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last week i dreamt i had to fly a raptor full of coffins of the main characters to a nebula and deliver them all to the infinite void. crept me out. i have a feeling this is going to end badly, not unsatisfactorily, but very very tragically.
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Season 3 was my least favorite... but it was still REALLY good. Looking forward to see how Moore and company wrap the whole thing up.
Finally. -
She went brunette in some film called walk all over me or something? Looked hot, could it work?
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but I think I'm gonna catch up on Netflix. Still won't read spoilers though.
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the actual final episode will air in 2012
A month after the earth is destroyed
and after 200 airings of the other 9 episodes -
IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK!
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It's not only the best Sci-fi since Firefly, but possibly the greatest thing on right now.
I loooved the dodgy 70's show as a kid, but I went into this sceptical as fuck, and the pilot just went on and on... however by the 1st episode of the 1st season I was gripped, being in the UK and not a subsciber to Rupert Merdoch's Bullshit Channel's I had to download the series initially. Anyways I ended up buying the box sets one by one, and now I'm a total fanatic about this motherfrakkingshow. The only downside is that I've got to wait months and months before the box set is out as its the only way I'll be able to see it. Frakk! -
I absolutely love BSG but I've read that Babylon 5 was an even better show. Now that the DVD box-sets are very affordable, I was thinking that now that BSG is coming to an end, I should maybe get some B5 DVD's. If I like BSG, will I also like Babylon 5?
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They wont be doing the webcast online like last year I guess? Tis ok have waited this long a few more hours wont hurt and YES!!! its fucking awsome to finally have the show back.
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Jan 16, 2009 3:08:14 AM CST
IMDB says the late Zak Adama is in the final 3 episodes.
by boomers_lips
what is that about??
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No possible way this could be an objective review of the episode...
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Dying to know.
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wakes up in bed with Muffit and Falkor, and exclaims, "I just had the strangest couple of dreams..."
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As for tonight's episode, I really hope they reveal who the Final is. There is bigger fish to fry, proverbially speaking, and stringing out who the Final is will only distract things. (And even when the Final is revealed, they'll still need to explain the origins of the Final, along with the Watchtower Four, in these remaining episodes.) So, Gods, I hope the Final is revealed in tonight's episode, so we can move on.
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the glowing spheres or angels from the original show have got to be whats happening on this show...they have been directing things behind the scenes... also maybe count iblis is the 'in head' 6 that baltar sees...the rest of the 'in head ' folks are the angels....go back and watch the original series to see what im talking about
but thats all i got..no idea how this will end
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the last 3 episodes of Season 3 and all of Season 4.0 starting at 8:30am today. Gives you a chance to catch up if you like!
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still needs to be done
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Definitely worth watching, I think it definitely influenced Ron Moore. you can see that in the latter seasons of DS9 which was on at the same time as B5.
B5 is a mixture of awesome and shit, with the awesome significantly outweighing the shit. I personally wouldn't say its the best show ever by a long stretch because the acting and sets can be pretty awful, but for my money it has one of the best stories ever told on television. The scope of the story is huge and I think it has been a mjor influence on a lot of modern television. Particualrly the extensive use of story arcs across multiple series. Season 1 can be a bit slow but it sets up a lot of events that play out over the next 4 seasons. Season 2 is where it really gets going with 3 and 4 being some of the most addictive televesion you'll see. Season 5 is a bit strange but stick with it for what has to be one of the most emotional finales ever made. Gives me shivers thinking about it.
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in the fireplace, a bottle of Lagaluvin loaded and ready to go, and I've instructed the wife and kids to be in bed by 10pm. In other words, it's about damn time BSG gets back. I am ready ! I may even whack off to those boomer lingerie pics today to get in the mood.
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Is it the whole episode or is it just chunks? ( not sure what precautions studios are taking now days )
As a fan of the show I would think that would be really frustrating if it was just chunks. -
tomorrow morning is going to be good...
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That was some freaky stuff.
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ends in 10 weeks....
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I really don't think they would be that unoriginal would they? BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: THE X FILE CHRONICLE RECORDS
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We get amazing conclusions to The Wire, The Shield, and now BSG and Lost return in the same week? We didn't do anything to earn this. Only problem is that now with the first two gone and the last two wrapping up, there are no successors to the vacant thrones of quality programming. Mad Men? Great but a shade too in love with itself. Dexter? Eat a shit sandwich and choke on Angel's hat. Fringe? Has potential but also some big issues to work on. Damages? Great except mostly just wanting to see the show's protagonist get offed. To fuck the plant you first gotta plant the seed, but they're not giving us any goddamn seeds.
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Caprica will be set on Earth and will tell the story of the AI that eventually led to the Final Five and the exodus toward Kobol. I hope.
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Counting the minutes until 10PM tonight *avoids spoiler invisotext* :)
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BSG:redux is not qualified to carry B5's jock. BSG started strong, with a horrifyingly mean mini-series and promising season 1. But the final 5 nonsense and fluid character motivations have made most of the characters interchangeable and disposable. I'm watching it out of curiosity of how the plot will be resolved. I'll Tivo and watch at speed with the close caps so the longing and morose staring doesn't cloy me to death.
I've been re-watching b5 on Hulu (seasons 1 & 2). There is a SciFi show that gets better with each episode, which is something of a rarity. The characters evolve and are changed by the story. They are not changed to advance the story, like BSG. B5 was an amazing feat, made more astonishing when you find out about production issues with the 'powers that were'.
I envy you getting to watch it for the first time. I described it to a friend as 'Tolkien in space.' That describes the grandness of it. The intimacy that you begin to feel for truly alien characters is unprecedented, and hasn't been seen since. Yes you'll have the occasional mediocre one-off episodes, but the big picture was staggering and moreover satisfying. A rarity. -
Jan 16, 2009 7:56:34 AM CST
I'm more excited about this than I was for Phantom Menace
by klytus_i.m_bored
And it feels like a longer wait. Let's hope it doesn't disappoint.
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Lets hope they improve towards the end.
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The one thing that alwasy bothers me comparing is how I wish that we B5 could have the 10 years and current special effects that BSG has.
If you give B5 a chance (First Season to 2.5) it really pays off big in S3 and S4 - don't watch any of the movies until done with series ... just a suggestion...
I like BSG for what it is, but really does not compare to the scope or sheer wonder that JMS wrote into B5. This is not counting the fact that they wanted to remove B5 from tv every year -
BSG was also to be a 5 year arc but has changed to a four year arc. In quite the same way as B5 they have had to wrap the series up a year earlier -- b5 held back the last episode because TNT came in to save the show for S5 -- the last 6 episodes of B5 have to rank as the only show that had character after character leave on week after the next...
Now how I wish Warner would re-do the special effects and release an HD version of B5 - now that would be special.. -
Herc - what cut scenes were you referring to? Is there anywhere to see them? How did they occur?
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That's like The Wire v The View.
BSG is one of the most accomplished pieces of drama made as serialised television. It has raised the bar for popular science fiction higher than you could reasonably hope for, with a level of characterisation and revelance few could, or do, achieve.
B5 had that bloke outta Animal House, The Scarecrow and some big crab looking things.
p.s. I do like JMS'd comics stuff though. Shows what B5 could have been with production values and actors I suppose. -
that he loves him some BSG, like three years ago?
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I've said this before, so much goes down in this episode that by the time you get to the cylon reveal your kinda like "yeah okay, neat." Great episode.
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Are you being sarcastic? He gives stars based on an "out of five" rating.
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It seems they have the capability and resources to manage that if Earth is all glowy and ticking meters heavily. But I doubt the writers are tech enough to plot the obvious.
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Actually pretty great once #9 and #10 finally rolled around. Anyone know if Gaeta's 'plan' has any relevance to what we're gonna see in 4.5?
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...once the entire set is really cheap, I'll pick it up and watch it all the way through. Actually, after BSG ends, I might go ahead and buy it for my Sci-fi fix.
Cannot frakking wait for BSG tonight! I'm going to watch it some friends. I also hope they reveal the final cylon tonight so that's out of the way -
You could give them horse and buggies make them Mormons hounded as they were, and it would be the same show. The Scifi aspect is minimal. They have very little extraneous technology incorporated into every day society. Unlike say Star Trek or B5. It is excellent drama, but bad scifi. And it has in no way popularized scifi as a genre.
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anyone else wondering if Gaeta singing his amputation-song is what really got him saved? And, if so, also wondering what the heck could be up with that??
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...but soooooo isn't.
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is more scifi than BSG. BSG would be speculative fiction while Nip/Tuck incorporating todays science, much like the CSI shows, would be true science fiction.
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i've been saying it for months-- the dude is the 5th!!
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Really, if you haven't seen B5 and you love BSG, you might want to check out B5. It was one of the early series that helped pave the way for serialized genre shows to be taken seriously and proved there was an audience for such shows. B5 wasn't perfect (the show's attempts at humor were horrific, for example), but it did have a lot of compelling drama writing.
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Never said it popularized sci-fi - I said it was popular sci-fi. By that I mean as opposed to "hard" sci-fi like what 40 year old virgins that work in mechnical engineering read.
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...but sooooooo isn't.
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Sound off!!!
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I can't wait!
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...although I really hate the way Sci-Fi has bled all of the momentum out of this show, with these ridiculous gaps in broadcasting episodes.
The worst part is, I've been rewatching the first half of season four; and I can;t help but feel a good chunk of that was just padding/filler to stretch the episode count for a split DVD season. I hope season 4.5 delivers on the promise of getting quickly to the point. -
OH YEAH!!!!
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Tough call. Ask again after we see how BSG ends. Production values and acting on BSG are generally superior. IMHO, B5 at its best was better than BSG at its best, but BSG never sucks as badly as B5 at its worst. Stylistically they are quite different. To me, B5 was the high water mark of the optimistic 50s space opera brand of SF. BSG has more in common with the 60s nihilistic style. I could easily name 10 moments in B5 that still give me chills when I think about them; can't think of any such for BSG. BSG is still a great show though.
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As quoted by Simon Pegg in Spaced. So there, it's official. So say we all.
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Is because it ISN'T a sci-fi show. It's a human/military-themed drama that happens to take place in space. And it has movie quality acting and writing at times. I know a couple people that won't give Galactica a chance because of the name. I've told them it's more like Black Hawk Down than Star Wars. Oh well. I'm hooked and will follow whatever spin offs they give me in the next few years.
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The planet was nuked by Gaius who was trying to unite the Cylons and the Humans all together
against the common threat of the space virus that was going to kill everyone. Six finds a little black notebook where all this information was posted by someone named Rorshach. Starbuck finds a bit of cloth that changes pattern in her hands. -
They were supposed to follow the final five, not Kara. That's why they're on the wrong planet.
The theory was longer than that. Let me see if I can dig it up. -
They've come full circle and are on the backside of Caprica.
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by space vikings. We all know how bad they are.
Ride the Walrus! -
Reporting in from the ruins of Earth!
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We're about to find out.Right,chrth?
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AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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need to go back and watch the starbuck boxing episode to remind yourselves just how much shit we've had to watch in amongst the really good stuff.
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Summary (since this is a long block of text):
The Hybrid warned against following Kara Thrace, but the Colonials did it anyway. Now they're in the wrong place. They need to find the Final Fifth, who, with the Final Four, will show the way to the home of the 13th Tribe ... all while fighting off the Cavil-led Cylons.
Disclaimer:
This is just something I came up with. It's not written in stone (notepad, actually). The purpose in posting it is to test it. If you find a flaw, GREAT. If you have a different interpretation, that's also great ... we can discuss it and see what we come up with. I may embrace your position, I may not, don't take it personally. The goal is discussion, not conclusion. This is a start point, not an end point.
The Nebula:
The Nebula is KEY. This is where things went wrong. Up until that point, the Colonials were following the correct path. The activation of the Final Five was the next step in the correct path. However, something else happened: Starbuck came back from the dead (confirmed in a podcast that she was dead). Multiple Hybrids warned against following her. The Colonials did anyway. Why? Because whoever brought Starbuck back returned her at the exact moment to pre-empt the next step. Since In-Head Leoben led her to her death, I'm going to guess that he was an agent of that power (we'll talk about them all later). So upon Starbuck's return, the wrong path was taken.
Now, there are some questions here (and possible flaws). Starbuck's path took them to the Hybrid and the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. The hybrid didn't want them following Starbuck, but she did seem to want to destroy the Hub. So it gets kind of confusing. Was the purpose just to follow Starbuck some of the way? Would the Hub destruction happened anyway if they followed the Final Five? Hard to say.
The McGuffin:
BTW, I think there's a giant McGuffin that is everywhere in the BSG universe and I think we've been tricked with it. I refer, of course, to "This has all happened before and that will all happen again". Many of us are trying to fit events into some sort of cycle. This has resulted in some far out looping (Cylons invented on Earth thousands of years ago, etc). I think we've taken it too far. For all we know, the cycle in question is tens of thousands of years old. So I am not going to try to fit the events into a cycle. There's an almost infinite number of ways to do it, and I don't think it gets us any closer to the 'truth' of the remaining episodes.
Earth:
Ah, good old Earth. And yes, I do believe they're on Earth. I believe that Earth was the previous home for those that ended up on Kobol, but it really becomes an academic question. Was Earth destroyed before the 13th Tribe set out for it 4000 years ago? Possibly; would make sense why everyone was on Kobol and ONLY Kobol (in a Universe with no aliens, why, 4000 years ago, was all of humanity on one planet? Could it be because they had been on another planet earlier that they destroyed, and their new leaders, the Lords of Kobol, kept a tight rein on them for unknown reasons?) Or was Earth destroyed after the 13th Tribe arrived, either in a battle with other (original) inhabitants or some sort of pseudo-Cylon event like what happened to the colonies (here's a place for our McGuffin)?
Ultimately, IT DOESN'T MATTER. See, a lot of people forget (because of New Caprica and the opening credits) that the real goal wasn't Earth; it was to reunite with the 13th Tribe. Reunited (and it feels so good), they would be able to fight off the Cylons. Despite all the truces and toaster-frakking going on, there's something still out there, because ...
Here Comes the Cavil-ry:
There are now a lot more bad Cylons than good Cylons. There's only D'Anna. A handful of Leobens. Some Sixes and Eights.
But there are potentially hundreds of thousands of all the other models. Not to mention Raiders, Centurions, and whatnot. Granted, those may no longer attack due to the revealed presence of the Final Five, but there are a lot more bad basestars than good ones. And there's still the Cylon homeworld, where resurrection still happens (unless RDM retcons this out) and they could build a new resurrection hub if they felt like it, one that the 'good' Cylons could no longer use.
The Thirteenth Tribe:
So that's what it comes down to -- finding the Thirteenth Tribe. There has to be some survivors somewhere. Back to our McGuffin: if the Colonials survived the Cylon attack, than I'm sure the 13th Tribe survived whatever happened on Earth (or if Earth was already like that). And I'm sure they got into some ships and went looking for a place called ... you got me. But I'm guessing the 13th Tribe is there. And I'm guessing they got there before the colonists left Kobol.
The Final Five:
This is where the Final Five's path comes into play. The Final Five's path leads to the 13th Tribe. Since the path they have followed has been laid out thousands of years ago, it seems that the 13th Tribe returned some of its members to Kobol at some point to create a new path, one that didn't lead to Earth (or led to an Earth 2 or New Earth or something). Now since we don't know the Final Fifth (who could be dead, or one of the colonies/New Caprica, or could've been on the Basestar already, or D'Anna could've been lying, whatever the explanation for the location is), I believe that the plot directions points to the joined Five being able to find the correct path. So the Fifth needs to be found (and I'm sure they'll figure this out pretty quick).
Roslin's Upcoming Death:
She's still the dying leader (remember, it's a wasting disease. Those championing Natalie for this role forget this fact). But the scripture never says Earth. Just the 'promised' or 'new' land. Since the 13th Tribe is what set down the markers, it makes sense that she doesn't die until they're close to their home.
The In-Heads and the Lords of Kobol:
Here's one of the big questions. What is the purpose of the In-Heads? I'm guessing they're avatars of the Lords of Kobol, but it's just a guess. The Cylon God is likely a former Lord of Kobol who was exiled for wanting to be the top dog, and the Cylons found him and he converted them to belief in him. The In-Head Six and Baltar are his doing. Is the Cylon God responsible for them following Kara the wrong way? It's the easiest solution to the problem (since it utilizes an established entity), but the Why is tricky. Maybe he doesn't want the 13th Tribe reunited with the Colonials because the other Lords of Kobol reside with the former? But it's also possible that one of the other Lords of Kobol (Aurora is a very likely suspect here because of her connection with Kara Thrace) doesn't want them reunited because they do not want the agents of the Cylon God amongest the 13th Tribe.
Where Do We Go From Here?
Well, I think the path is simple: find the Final Fifth. Follow the path to the 13th Tribe. Unite with them to stop the (bad) Cylons. Live happily ever after ... until it happens again. This doesn't mean there aren't loose threads (and some of them are already answered above, but we'll include them all) that need answering, but I think this is the core of the final episodes. Some of these are academic (as noted, does it really matter what happened on Earth? All that matters is that it happened).
The Open Threads:
1) The remaining 'bad' Cylons (as well as the Cylon homeworld)
2) What happened to Earth?
3) What happened to the 13th tribe?
4) What happened to the Lords of Kobol?
5) Who or What are the In-Head Baltar, Six, and Leoben?
6) What destruction is Kara Thrace leading everyone to?
7) Why isn't Roslin dead (yet)? Will she die?
8) The Final Fifth
9) How have the Final Five "been to Earth"?
10) Who is the 'jealous god'? Is it the Cylon god? Lord of Kobol?
11) What's the deal with Hera? What's the secret of the Opera House?
12) What's the deal with Tigh-Caprica Six's child?
Miscellany:
I don't think they'll settle on Kobol or Earth. The former seems like going backwards to me, and the latter seems like a replay of New Caprica.
Predicted Dialogue for the next episode:
"Something went wrong. Are they all lost?"
"We survived. They must have as well."
"Where did they go?"
"They led us here. They'll lead us there."
Also: "Frak"
The splendor Kara's Earth opposed to the Earth they're on now: Roslin and Kira see a green bank. Natalie sees verdant trees. These are the glimpses of death/afterlife we've been shown on the show. Now consider what the podcast told us when she returned: Kara DIED. And was returned. What if the splendor she saw was the one Roslin and Natalie glimpsed, not Earth?
I think that's enough for now. If you made it to the end and read everything, good for you. -
What I just reposted was from right after the last episode ended. It does not incorporate any subsequent spoilers/info we have learned.
Also, I still recommend Stone Gods by Jeanette Winterson. Ignoring the lesbian robot sex (although why'd you want to is beyond me), there's a lot of thematic similarities with this incarnation of BSG. -
Good to see you chaps reporting for duty!Come on Regs. Sound off!
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B5 Season 3: best 2 episodes of sci-fi TV ever.
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Speak for yourself. A lot of people like the boxing episode. Stuff like "Black Market"...not so much.
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Boxing wasn't as bad as the mutiny two-parter (since it was obvious where it was going and where it was going to end up ... two eps were a waste on the topic)
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I forgot how detailed your collected theories are. Let me get my reading glasses...
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Is the Final Cylon!
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they cool looking too!
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"Baltar’s back in labcoat, and in superscientist mode. No worshippers lurking about."
FUCK YES. I hated what they did with Baltar the first half of the season. -
Would that be a bullet or a sharp object perhaps?
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Baltar is pretty sober for most of the season, the worshipers are not gone however. Baltar really splits in two, a newer more evolved baltar and the wacky zany cultish baltar. It's hard to accept the flipping betweem the two.
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http://tinyurl.com/7mpl2r; the convention runs February 6-8 at the Javits Center. Dare I hope for a Dollhouse panel with Eliza and BSG's Helo??
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Unfortunately, I have to go to New fucking Jersey for work today. I hope the damn hotel gets Sci Fi or I am going to have to choke not just A bitch, but EVERY bitch. Forever.
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even though he's doing it with just about everyone. Maybe even Gaeta.
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tell us Staries what we really want to know! Do Starbuck and Apollo get to make out in this episode? Does Adama cry and hug his son? Does Roslyn cry about her bald cancer head? Who's gay? Soap Opera Digest doesn't have this information, so you must tell us!
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I cannot fucking wait. Holy shit. HOLY SHIT.
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No, the correct phrase is "Babylon 5 is THE shit!"
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Greetings MNG, Huberto, chrth, pennsy!And the First 15 Minutes sound FRAKKING GREAT! I may not get to watch until tomorrow on the dvr, so won't read any spoilerage here until after that :-)
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Jan 16, 2009 11:54:42 AM CST
If just for their version of "All Along the Watchtower"
by zinc_chameleon
I'd have been impressed by Battlestar Galatica. And I'm proud to be Canadian when I see what a fine actress Tricia Helfer has become. The episode where she switched from sultry to jock in an eyeblink was worthy of vintage Twilight Zone.
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Fuck Bloody Valentine! Tonight, I'm making mine BSG!
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The Twelfth Cylon is that guy, you know, who did "the thing" and what not.
C'mon, you know who I'm talking about...
Zipper? Boomhauer? Zapp (Brannigan, not the potato chips)?
Sam Beckett! Yes, that's it! In this episode, Sam leaps into the body of the Twelfth Cylon and realizes that Al (who he has only seen as a hologram) is in fact another Cylon!
My God, it all makes sense now: the ability to move consciousness from body to body? Excellent! Touche Mister Moore, Touche! -
Jan 16, 2009 12:04:33 PM CST
"is said to contain the identity of the 12th and final Cylon." W
by mahaloth
Where did you hear this?
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I feel like I have to post here, that, like so many others, I am excited beyond words for the beginning of the end tonight. My four favorite shows of the Last ten years are The Shield, The Wire, Lost and of course BSG. I can't put them in any real order because they are all in a class of their own, however, I can say i feel like BSG has the best attributes of the other three. The tension and "heavy" feeling of the Shield, the adventure and sci-fi cliffhangers of Lost and the absolutley brilliant writing of the Wire. Today truly feels like a Christmas that will never come again.
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Jan 16, 2009 12:11:29 PM CST
Col. Tigh-Fighter - Cylon and all-time badass reporting in
by col. tigh-fighter
Im so going to miss BSG!! Please go out in a style befitting your status as greatest scripted drama ever committed to film! PS. I've got a date all weekend ;) So wont be able to check it out until Sunday. I may just make them watch it with me tomorrow lol. (bring on them torrentz!!) So Say We All, Mtherfrakkers!
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Wow, you fucking Battlestar Galactica fanboys make Browncoats and Buffy Boosters look absolutely hetero in comparison.
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Has any series finale ever lived up to the hype?
I'm still smarting from the "earth scouts" in the original series... -
It definitely does.
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of Cylon...
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1) Provide answers
2) And have the answers be workable. Sure, some may disagree with the results (OMG, I can't believe Roslin is a time-travelling Cylon God from the past and the future!) but as long as it *works*, I'm cool with it.
That said, my list of questions to be answered posted above pretty much need to be 100% answered. Anything less than that will be disappointing. -
Auf Weidersehen goodbye
Goodbye Goodbye Goodbye
NO CHAMPAGNE FOR YOU! -
I'm not sure you're using the term correctly. McGuffin is a plot device that is meaningless in itself. Do you mean "red herring"?
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Funny, I wasn't aware LOST soooo wanted to be about spaceships and robots, but for some reason couldn't. Schmuck. You're logic is flawed. ANd also, chrth, you're a self-important moron. Like any one wants to read your three page post. Get a fucking life dude. As if your theories matter AT ALL. The last ten episodes are starting today, and the answers will be there. No one gives a fuck about your pretentious theories. They're all going to be wrong anyway.
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Let's keep it friendly, people. It's just a tv show and you will be able to get it on disk and deconstruct it forever and ever and ever and ever. It's a perfectly cromulent word and embiggens a noble spirit.
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I wanna hear the song from Revelations in it's entirety!
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Looking forward to this series especially any scenes with Adama, Tigh, and Roslin (My Favorite 3).
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where are the Egyptians, The Toltecs and the Mayans? I know that some believe that there may yet be Brothers of Man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens...
It won't matter if they find earth anyway.
The Emperor has all ready ordered the Death Star to take care of that rebellion. -
dude, Chrth has been a part of BSG talkbacks for a long time. Who the fuck are you? At least someone's trying to start intelligent discussion.
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Starbucks, finds a Starbucks coffee cup...that'd be funny huh? Eh...no.
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Yes!
shoot and scores!
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B5 is one of the greatest shows ever, BUT!! the first season was marred by the commander of B5 who acted like a parody of a starbase captain. A remarkably bad actor. It;s still important to watch the first season as there are threads that are built upon in later episodes. However, the Second season is where it really starts cooking and does not let up until the end of the fourth season. The fifth season was good too, but not as good as the previous few seasons.
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http://tinyurl.com/74gsnq
I like Tigh's.... -
A copy of Watchtower.
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Crow-tool is unimportant--we do not read his words....
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I heard that an extra 3 to 4 minutes will be added on tonight. Anyone confirm or deny this. Have to set my recorder.
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just to be safe i'm setting my recorder an additional 5 minutes. better safe then sorry if they reveal the fifth in the last 5 minutes
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Jan 16, 2009 1:23:41 PM CST
Hey Crow3711, you're a mean-spirited little cocksucker
by klytus_i.m_bored
And I mean no disrespect to actual cocksuckers on this board (bless you, you're doing God's work). This is a board for genre geeks you fuckwit. Fan speculation is part of the fun of this place. If you're so above-it-all, why don't you lurk on CHUD. I'm sure those self-important douchebags would LOVE to have you.
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And I still got wood!
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oisin5199: Yeah, Red Herring is probably more appropriate. Since it's my first language, my grasp of English isn't always strong ;)
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According to RDM.
http://tinyurl.com/7w6hjn
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Yeah, Tigh's moment was really cool. I didn't realize that was improv'd. Olmos is the man.
But where's Hot Dog's favorite moment? -
There have been times that the show has been hugely entertaining. "33" may be a television high water mark for sci-fi as far as I'm concerned. I loved the pilot movie, the original Boomer arc and the game changing risks taken by taking the story to New Caprica. The daring escape from their Cylon captors on New Caprica has to be another all-time great television moment.
But, I think it's pretty clear that as the final episodes are shown, the show has become a huge, bloated mess of overwrought nonsense.
The examples are legion, but let me throw a couple out there that I haven't heard much discussion about.
Why is there a "Final Five" anyway? It was clear earlier in the show that Cylons were being revealed to us, the viewers of the show, and, to a lesser extent, the Colonials. That list of known models included semi-fan-created pet names for each model. Now, for some unknown reason the Cylons themselves have become like the viewers of the show and have become obsessed with who the "Final Five" are.
First off, why in Hell would the Cylons call them the "Final Five?" That title only works if you're a viewer and are ticking off a punch list starting with one through seven. If there are twelve models, that list would leave five. Long delays by the Sci-Fi Channel and sudden reluctance to advance the overall plot/mythology of the show (if there ever was one) left us stuck at seven for quite a while. Thus, "Final Five."
So, what? Are we to understand that the Cylons themselves have a similar check list? That makes no sense whatsoever. So, let's look a little deeper. First, are the "Five" unique? That is, are there many copies or just the one? Evidence seems to indicate just the one. The contrary would make it impossible that their identity is unknown. Even so, how is it that their identities are not known to the Cylons? The only good explanations I can come up with are that they are older models whose copies have been boxed or destroyed, prototypes or just plain one-offs that got either lost or sent on a covert mission long ago.
So, if we accept the premise that they're somehow older models, and clearly the opposite doesn't hold together logically, then we're back again to wondering why the Cylons would use the term "Final Five." Shouldn't they be the "First Five" or "Lost Five" or the "Hidden Five?" Bottom line, the description "Final Five" works fine among viewers of the show, but makes no sense from the perspective of the Cylons.
Poor, poor writing. Purely amateur hour.
And yet, the revealing of the identities of these five has become all but the centerpiece of the show in its last season and a half. Nearly abandoned plot points that used to make the show interesting include such compelling ideas as revealing how the colonies were established, who the Lords of Kobol were, what (if anything) was cyclical about the Cylon rebellion and the subsequent destruction of the colonies, what an "in-head" is (if anything), what the nature of the polytheistic beliefs of the Colonials is and how it relates to the monotheistic ideas of the Cylons, what completely shocking logic drives the infamous Cylon "Plan" and, most importantly, where does the story of Battlestar Galactica fit into the story of the human race as we know it and the cradle of humanity, Earth.
Nope, most of this has been jettisoned in favor of soap opera style personal relationships that at one moment seem very vital and real only to be thrown out or re-tooled whenever it's needed to create (increasingly artificial) drama. I could accept this kind of dramatic bait and switch a few times. But, as a viewer, I feel more abused than Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football. I keep trusting and yet every time it turns out to be a lame, meaningless trick.
That's reminds me of the "Final Five" again. Their revealed identities seem completely arbitrary except that they are characters who we, as the viewers, know of, but aren't "A-list" enough to piss off the show's more hard core supporters. They're an officer, an advisor and athlete and a mechanic. Huh? Forget the whole problem of how each of the "Five" ended up in the fleet after living entire lives (including childhood?).
We were told that the Galactica survived the initial attack by a few lucky coincidences and fast thinking by her crew. Even so, she was nearly destroyed countless times. How is it that the "Final Five" unknowingly, by chance or by hidden programming *all* ended up in the rag tag fugitive fleet that represents a very small percentage of the former human colonies and have continued to evade death? If you say it's good luck, then I don't buy it, especially where Anders is concerned. If the Cylon's are somehow pulling their punches, then guess what? A ton of the perceived danger that the Galactica and its crew has seemed to have been in suddenly goes poof. Neither sounds like an acceptable solution.
Oh, and remember back when Baltar's "Cylon detector" was demonstrated to work perfectly? Did Tigh or Chief not get tested? Was it simply expected that we'd conveniently forget that episode ever happened like we're expected to forget the vaunted Cylon "Plan?"
I'm going to go ahead and predict that most of the big unanswered questions never get any sort of real resolution and the show will end as it has recently floundered, in a miasma of half baked ideas and abandoned plot holes. Nevertheless, I've stuck with it this long. I might as well DVR or Torrent it and see if they can pull a miracle out of their ass.
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I am doing the same thing.
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I'm watching the whole thing ;)
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The answer to all of the questions is. This has all happened before, and will happen again.
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he has some very valid points. We were told that "The Cylons Had A Plan" since day one, but by my own reckoning, tptb have changed said plan at least three times. And this isn't the most egregious example.
There's really only two ways you can deal with it: just suck it up and realize that, honestly, they didn't fully know where they were going with this show when they started and try to enjoy each individual moment on its own; or you can let it grate at you and ruin your enjoyment of the rest of the show. I've chosen to do the former, simply because the show does enough good things (in-head Baltar still the greatest character in human history) to outweigh the bad things (plotholes, Black Market). But I can completely understand why someone would do the latter. -
"Final" Five will make perfect sense.
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How the Five ended up in their "human" circumstances is explained.
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(just kidding*, don't tell us)
*Actually, I'm not kidding, that was once a theory of mine ... but I still don't want you to answer -
is how for the most part, it's pretty logical and sort of simple. Nothing you would guess without knowing, but once you find out you go "oh, okay." That's npt tp say that everything is explained to satisfaction, Tori, for instance, still seems a little out of left field. But I haven't seen and don't know everything. Just a lot.
But as you'll see, I think the best part of 4.5 is the story and character work, rather than the big reveals. You can feel the show pulling itself back to that place where it was about character and the present situation more than guessing games, etc.
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I've been stewing on that stuff for quite a while now and it felt good to let it out.
I'm definitely not a hater. In my heart, I'm always going to appreciate the show for the things it did so successfully.
I simply regret that they didn't have a full time employee attached to the writers whose job it was to keep things internally consistent.
The result could have been so great as to never be matched in the genre. As it is, we can only dream of what might have been. -
...fundamental surprise of the love-based change to that plan SO significant: it ruptured Cylon society, it ruptured the Plan, it caused the incompetent (no experience) attempt at "caretaking" on New Caprica, it led to Cylon Civil War, and led to the tenuous alliance between humans and one faction of the Cylon now.Of COURSE the Plan changed--that is a mark of a dynamic and intelligent script.
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Even if there was one person responsible for internal consistency, there are still thousands (if not millions for shows like Lost) of fanboys parsing every single word and action for clues, theories, predictions, you name it. Not to mention that sometimes situations change as actors or characters mature or leave or become fan favorites or what have you (Anders is a prime example of this). You're never going to satisfy everyone.
That said, they should've at least sketched out a firm direction for the show from the beginning. I do think (and hope) they are working from a complete plan now, and all the stuff that's been bothering us since the Eye of Jupiter will have an explanation. -
is the title of the Cylon-centric prequel TV-movie hitting SciFi later this year. It was directed by Edward James Olmos from a teleplay by Jane Espenson.
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I am much more interested in this than in "Caprica"
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For example: when Cavil was revealed, he told Roslin: look, we're going to leave you alone. We're done with you. See ya. Then next thing you know, they're back and occupying New Caprica. It's not until Gaius finally asks D'Anna (and if you go back to that talkback, I cheered it because it was about freakin' time someone asked) why they don't just leave. And what does she say? The exact same thing they said in the miniseries when Boomer rescued Doren: we have to kill them off or they'll come back and kill us.
So, ok, the plan is back to the original plan. Although ... not sure where the whole breeding thing ever fit in then if complete genocide was the plan. And still no explanation on what Cavil said and why they changed their minds -- especially since Cavil became one of the leading proponents of genocide.
In other words, the rhyme and reason seems to be missing on the Cylon side. It used to bug me, but I've gotten used to it. -
UMWELT!
FATHOM THE CONCEPT! -
Do they mean the Cylons have a copy of the upcoming miniseries?
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Jan 16, 2009 2:29:11 PM CST
In all probability, the show will wrap up as many
by real men cry sir. real men cry.
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is it's own thing.
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leave some story lines open for later. Take the Sopranos. It ended. Abruptly. And we were left to our our imaginations as to what happened. I doubt something like this would happen unless they were planning for a SciFi movie event later down the road ( as it would not translate to the big screen as much as we'd like it to). So, I am hoping that there is a logical solution (probably really simple as most things in real life), some story lines will not be resolved and that's okay. We all have the things we have taken from the show, loved over the years ( the whole Callie MILF thread) and now, it's all coming to an end. I would like it to be logical, but you can only do so much in 10 episodes.
Gaeta. Gay-tuh.
Whoa. HEh heh heh heh -
Think about it.
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Remember: Ron Moore said the final five are "different".
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resurrect and have multiple copies/groupthink like the other seven.
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Quote: "...we can only dream of what might have been."Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's not over yet; there are still 10 eps to go. Let's just wait and see if RDM & Co. can still grab their gun and bring the cat in.That being said, I appreciate the thought and effort you put into your post. I have had my own concerns over changes that occured at the end of S3 and in the somewhat lukewarm - compressed feeling of the first half of S4. Considering the depth of the show and the mystical quality of some of the story elements, this was bound to happen.However, if there is one thing BSG has been good at every single season, it's been clobbering us over the head with fantastic and stirring finishes. So, I believe they can do it yet again. I look forward to what I hope will be a great show going out with a fantastic bang.
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used two interesting turns of phrase:when discussing the humans who survived the Cylon attack, he said they are the only humans left "as far as they know"As for Earth, he said they finally arrive at "what seems to be Earth"
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Really dude, you need to pay attention to the episode. I think the scene you are mentioning are when the Sharon model is killed by the Cavil in the S4 outtakes. That was infact the Sharon model that downloaded Athena's memories. That's why Roslyn tells Helo he "didn't marry the entire production line", when he has feelings of guilt about the betrayal he would be a part in in terms of deliver D'Anna directly to Roslyn after the rescue. "Fake Athena" was killed in the deleted scene, not the real Athena, if that makes sense.
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Really, gboybama? This is your main beef? The fact that the Cylons call them that? One of the main qualities of the show has been that it's about people dealing with their present circumstances and surviving however they can. The whole premise of the five had to do with finding Earth, which has been the mission. All that stuff you're asking for, Colonial history, religion, etc., while interesting subjects, simply CANNOT be the focus of the show, lest it get dragged down in backstory (there is a prequel series after all). It's always best if this kind of thing is revealed little by little as needed, so that the main thrust of the show can be preserved. And since these 4 were revealed as Cylons (and we'll apparently see what that actually means), that's obviously all these characters are thinking about. The show is about getting along, trust, conflict, survival. When it comes down to it, I don't even really care what the 'Plan' is or who the final cylon is - these truly are McGuffins (wink, chrth) - as long as it tells a good story that highlights the characters. The show is about more than just plot twists. But they are vehicles to carry the drama, whereas all that back info, while building the universe effectively, would not be able to fulfill the task of moving the story forward.
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I can't even think of a single show ever I've had less complaints about than BSG (well, except Firefly), so all bitching about the 'mess that the show has become' rings very false to me. Even the weaker episodes blow away most everything else on tv.
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best turn of phrase I've heard today!
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unless they can be dealt with in Caprica, that's not going to happen. They've always said the end is the end. This isn't B5, or even Farscape, which is apparently coming back as webisodes.
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I only have the first 2 minutes that they have online for the fans, but if the rest of the show will be like that, then it will cancelled fast!
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The production values and performances in the first 2 mintes are admittedly strange. The show does progress and build towards something better.
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I'm all lubed up for the show now. Gonna get me the first 2 seasons on DVD and a load of E45 cream for the bed-sores I'll no doubt get, cos if it's that good I won't wanna move.
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Be forewarned, Harry. Though the payoff will be shockingly huge for sticking with the show, the first season of B5 is uneven. A cast change and tonal shift in season 2 launch the show to its eventual heights. So, don't be dismayed if you start off saying, "Um, is it all like this?" Don't worry, it isn't. But, that by no means is meant as an encouragement to skip Season 1. It has it's amazingly cool and essential moments as well. "IT'S *OUR* TIME NOW!!!"
MNG, your points are very well taken and I will hope for the best at your side. I cannot deny that when the show has three men on base and two outs, it sometimes hits a six run homer.
Oisin, I get the sense you only browsed my diatribe. The focus of my post was only a nit, but I felt like bringing up something I hadn't heard mentioned before to complement all of the other pros and cons that had been made so eloquently thus far by previous posters in recent months/years.
Of course character relationships are the bedrock of *any* drama and where the real hay is made, so to speak. But, IMHO, (as I did touch on) this is BSG's absolutely weakest point. Relationships have been so completely mercurial / unpredictable as to defy any experience I have with the human race. I mean, I realize that I have never been hunted by an army of killer cyborgs, but the kind of short term memory loss and inconsistent character traits exhibited by the denizens of the Galactica are beyond belief. I can find little justification for everyone on the show acting like they've been breathing some kind of toxic bipolar nerve gas pumped right into the ship's life support.
BTW, after Chromedome's admonishment, I did think of one solution to my analysis of the "Final Five" and how nothing fits. What if they are Cylons that have been uploaded into existing humans? Think of the problems that one idea would fix. Saul having a lifelong backstory known to Adama? Check. Other Cylons not knowing what the "Five" look like? Check. All the "Five" ending up in one place? Check. If they were "created" at a sort of uber "in-head" at some point right before the Watchtower revelation, everything falls into place. That would certainly make them "different" as Moore says.
Just a random idea and I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but I guess a miraculous save of the show's logic is possible! Haha. -
A quick Google search will bring it up.
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Whatever we think we know about Cylons and rules/limitations thereof does not necessarily apply to the Five.The way they were revealed to us and to themselves was fundamentally different.The way the Raiders reacted to them was fundamentally different.The reactions of the Skinjobs to even discussing them was fundamentally different.The fact that their identities were unknown to the Cylon was fundamentally different.The way D'Anna saw their faces was fundamentally different.We shouldn't preselect ANY limitations on their nature, their impact, their purpose, their intentions, or the intended use of them by Whomever.Remain OPEN to the adventure ahead--and enjoy!
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This has probably already been said, but B5 and BSG are just two very different shows, like Iron Man and Dark Knight were very different movies, but all are fantastic.
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There were a few misses here and there, but the overall story arc is phenominal. I generally hate it when people say "well, you have to consider the budget they had, etc" seeming to make excuses but with B5 that's really true. You should really look up the history of making it, it's interesting. It took about a decade of development to finally hit the air, was syndicated, shot on a shoe string budget, and really pioneered a planned full series story arc. It was a 5 year story, with bits in every episode (even some of the lighter ones) and they intended to leave it as 5 years, no more. By season 4, they ran out of money and tried to rush wrapping up the series because it was clear there would be no season 5. Luckily (sort of) TNT stepped in at the last minute and financed the 5th season. Unfortunately there was the typical "let's tweak it" network mentality and there were a few screwy things in the last season. But the story did get an ending which was good. Now, as for how TNT FUCKED OVER EVERYONE with Crusade (the sequel to B5) that's another story...That said, definately watch B5, it's on Hulu for free. First season is a little hit and miss but it hooks you fast. By the 3rd season, you'll be screaming at the tv screen
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Regarding the "What seems to be Earth" comment, Jane Espenson said something similar in one of her commentaries.
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even more so than Firefly
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Nice detailed overview of your theories (AKA Chrth's "What You Need to Consider").Excellent post.
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yea--and all the comments about finding things in the sand, maybe we find out something about this "earth" pretty quickly, eh?
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but still don't seem to have a clue about themselves or their purpose.I expect it was a partial activation, filters on their self-awareness being controlled by the Fifth, or the Cylon God.It will be interesting if/when they become fully self-aware and connected
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:-) Got a laugh reading your post, I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one outta my chair screaming at the TV while watching B5.
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is Doc Cottle. That would be all kinds of awesome! And I can't frakkin wait for 10:00 pst!!!!
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Bring it. Now. The 5th revealed tonight? Makes it worth the wait.
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The Galatica
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Yes, that was not Helo's wife that died in that episode, but... was that Athena that died in the most recent webisode?
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Jan 16, 2009 5:57:04 PM CST
Jane Espenson said it was NOT Athena that died in the webisode.
by boomers_lips
it was just a random Eight.
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The teaser where Tyrol remembers something and falls to the ground might indicate that the activation comes the planet itself.
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Both eights? So, neither were Athena? But, one was in uniform?
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Herc posted a message her from Jane that she wanted the talkbackers to know it was not Athena who got electrocuted. the other eight was known only as Sweet Eight.
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I must've missed that memo.
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I don't have any blades around me or depressants when I watch. Show is so depressing now. Just watching to say I watched it now. It's still one of the best shows on now.
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AMC and Matt Weiner agreed to a 2-year deal for the third and fourth seasons of Mad Men. Just announced at their TCA press tour meet and greet. http://tinyurl.com/a5ncnv
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but overall, it's tone as been so bleak, so without any humor or light, I can't get ultra-passionate about it. I'm going to watch it tonight, but it's not like when I anticpated every Farscape a few years back there. Not at all.
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I'm taking a break from Arathi Basin to be here. I'm live, I'm talkbacking, I'm live talkbacking.
Let's roll the hard 6! -
The music was it manifesting as they approached. Once they arrived, the switch turned on.
Remember: the nebula was along the path they were following. Then Kara returned. I'm still convinced that they were supposed to continue on a different path led by the Final Five, not Kara. -
They sure are. But one has to wonder ...
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JUMP!
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Jan 16, 2009 8:53:11 PM CST
Everyone's a little too happy ... waiting for the other shoe ...
by chrth
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Love it
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*sigh*
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later sackhoff said that if the strike had continued, this episode wouldve been the perfect series finale.
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MOTHER FRAKKIN YES
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the coloring reminds me of a swedish film...
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Dammit, my theory doesn't have the dates. Let me find the last ep's talkback
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how can you guys take the damn commercials? I'm considering shutting down the live stream and watch the torrent tomorrow.
nah, that's just crazy talk... -
I wonder if they found something there
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Anything metal would be gone. No toys would be at the surface, that stuff would be under a foot of soil.
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So where are the original humans? Dead on Kobol?
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mind, goes boom.
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it's becoming pretty obvious.
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That's the Earth version of the Chief, who is a completely different guy who he just channeled.
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the frak...?
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Nope.
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the 13th tribe.Everyone left Kobol the same time Earth was getting nuked. That can't be coincidence.
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The Final Five aren't Caprican cylons, but Earth Cylons?
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wonder what could that mean... /sarcasm
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You might not like what you find
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I told you not to remove the helmet.
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that's it for the big drama... mua ha ha!!!
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Count Iblis with self induced amnesia
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ok wow
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But not for the colonials, but for Earth. Damn hybrids having no sense of time's arrow.
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That's pretty fucked up right there
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And lands on Earth 2000 years ago. She lives there a few months, and then everything goes kablooie.
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no way Karas corpse is 2000 yead old
She crashed long after whatever went down of Earf (thats not earth) -
Jan 16, 2009 9:26:33 PM CST
I reiterate that none of this junk would be lying around like th
by fluffyunbound
But I'm still digging the episode anyway
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She was dead in the viper.
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It doesn't say Earth. Dammit Roslin, there's still somewhere else to go.
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And live on Earth in the past, and then Chief dies in the war. I would be seriously...perturbed.
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that corpse was still fairly juicy
And in my last post I meant to say *on Earf*, Not of Earf -
Isn't that sweet?
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how far Earf is from the colonys
If it's around 2000 light years, they could have drifted there in some form or another -
Please make it go away
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I now wish to win the lottery
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is my command!
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Dee shot herself!
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"We need a medic!" "No, you need a mortician"
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Did not see that coming
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When Gaeta was finding something "astonishing" in his bunk, I thought for sure it was a dude. Damn you, Herc.
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is no joke!
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Dee's dead,and Leoben is a total fucking pussy.
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didn't see this one coming.
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No way.
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You sure this ain't Buffy?
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unexplained or unexplainable sucides
Dee's the first
It's the hybrids prophecy starting to come true -
Remember, the 13th tribe (if indeed they are the 13th tribe -- I believe it, but curveballs could come) left Kobol 4000 years ago. I think we'd have noticed if we'd only been on Earth for 2000 years.
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Deep Hurting.
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She put a pulse pistol to her temple and pulled the trigger.
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bartender extrodinaire.
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I'm halfway through Buffy S7 right now. Can't believe how much I love Buffy and Angel. Very excited for the finish, please don't spoil.
Back to BSG now. -
Adama losing his marbles
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Now THAT would be really fucked up.
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Should just wander the Galactica taking swings from a bottle for the rest of the season. He's earned it.
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The center can not hold.
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I was thinking more of S5 Buffy "The Body" - no spoilers, I swear. Happy veiwing!
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You decide.
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That would be very, very frakked
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Why not just rob a liquor store and let a cop do it, Admiral?
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These aren't the scenes he should get emmies for
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That was intense. Eddie is awesome.
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Just...holy holy fuck!
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Don't we all?
Wait, what? -
FUCK B5, FUCK STAR TREK, AND ANY OTHER SHOW THAT CLAIMS TO THE BEST ON TV, FUCK EM ALL! BSG IS WHERE ITS AT BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The Body is one of the best episodes of television ever. Having experienced the death of a parent, I can't believe how accurate all the details are in that ep. Buffy S5 finale is amazing too. Giles is badass.
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That just sucks. *cry*
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Before Ron Moore!!!
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It's a ripoff of Friday the 13th the Series
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They are tagging already?? Badass.
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she burned her body
She's Iblis and her presence is affecting / corrupting the fleet personnel.
That's probably what happened to Earf. Iblis corrupted them, they destroyed themselves.
Notice the fight in the hall that Adama didn't even glance at and no one even bothered to try and break up?
Considering that Earth was populated by Cylons, Iblis could have started as a virus.
Iblis could also be a rogue Lord of Kobol.
The final Cylons, the ones that came from Earl may be less influenced by his presence, having been exposed to him before.
Or may be able to react to it in time, having been seen it, lived and died Iblis influence before -
Come on bitches let me have it
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By the way
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in 5 minutes!
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My pops is dying now. In-operable cancer. I feel like half the time I'm just waiting around to find him. Know where you are coming from.
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My pops is dying now. In-operable cancer. I feel like half the time I'm just waiting around to find him. Know where you are coming from.
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Liar! Liar!
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Crazy one-eyed bitch.
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I hear that!
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that's all.
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seeing certain things broadcast before others. Don't spoils!
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Kara burnt her own body but Saul's wife is...? What is real and what is memorex?
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Just as long as the other Cylons don't show up ... hey nice of D'Anna to remember!
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Please don't read if you are not watching the show in real time. Spoilers are inevitable..or whatever.
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Or is this just smoke?
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There are these guys on Space in Canada who are cosplaying after the show. *giggle*
I must go to the bar now. On the flip, frakkers. -
How in the hell is SHE the fifth? She's dead.
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My husband will commence my foot massage momentarily!
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AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEE
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She's out there somewhere, Saul. Go find her!
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Good episode, but that reveal was strangely disappointing.
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Now we know the 5th. Moving on...
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Now what the frak does that mean? I mean, I know what it means, but what does it *mean*?
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Are you fucking kidding me? The revelation of earth's nature and history, what happened to starbuck, what happened to D.... This is not going to end well.
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for those that could not watch!!
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Jan 16, 2009 10:03:56 PM CST
Guess he has to go back to New Caprica and dig up her corpse
by snowpuff
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It will be explained. The next three episodes are great. But they won't come back to Ellen for a while.
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ELLEN? What an episode. *speechless*.
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Tigh killed the fifth!
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Kara murders Leoben cos he's the only one who know she found the signal source and her body.
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I wasn't talking about the revelations regarding Earth or Starbuck. I was talking about THE reveal. Ellen being the fifth cylon? Out of all the people it could have been? I was hoping for Zac Adama myself.
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Come on now, are you disappointed in who it was? Please, I thought it was brilliant! Creative! So what if it wasn't who you thought. It will be interesting to see where they go with it.
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I was hoping it was Dualla. Before she shot herself there was a pic of someone on a beach. I thought maybe her finding the jacks had triggered her memory that she was the final cylon hence her freak out back on the ship next to Helo.
I thought it would be great for us to see her dead. Then later in a flashback on Earth so we know, but no one else does.
Oh well. I'd like to see how this all ends anyway. -
it just it was it is. i never ever thought it'd be something that makes you shit your pants. i mean come on, obviously it's one of the leads, and it's a marketing hook. far more important is what the frak is the implication of what happened to earth? and starbuck.
Far far more important is how Saul Tigh was the most dependable, strong character in the whole episode, and yes now he does have something to live for, some attempt at personal salvation. the asshole alcoholic self destructive XO who couldn't lead a parade turns out to be the bravest guy in the crisis tonight. -
SEE YOU WITH ANOTHA WIFE, BRUTHA
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So they decided to make the Fifth the weakest, most boring, most annoying character that's been on the show. Good work, Ron.
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spoiler-filled recap:
Earth was populated entirely by skinjob cylons with their own model centurions. A nuclear holocaust wiped them out 3000 years ago and Earth is now unlivable. The fleet is obviously depressed by the news.
Dee reconnects with Lee and they go on a date. After a great night, she heads back to the Officers cabin, tells Gaeta she doesnt want to hear about Earth and just wants to enjoy the moment forever. She blows her brains out.
Starbuck (with Leoben) finds the source of the Earth signal - what appears to be her own crashed viper with a blonde haired corpse inside. The tags on the corpse read "K Thrace".
Tyrol, Anders and Torrey all remember past lives among the Earth Cylons.
Adama tells the fleet that though Earth is gone, they are going to continue to search for a new home.
Tigh has a flashback to his life among the Earth Cylons and sees his wife Ellen dying alongside him in the holocaust. She tells him "Everything is in place, we will be reborn together."
In the present, Tigh says "Ellen, you were the fifth!"
THE END. -
Out of all the people who it could have been, Ellen never really crossed my mind. I guess that makes it a good twist in a "I never saw that coming" way, but I feel no emotional connection to Ellen whatsoever. I hated the character when she was alive. Whoever it ended up being, I never expected to feel ambivalent about the person. Whatever. I liked the rest of the episode.
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I don't buy it. They are just fraking with us, and Tigh was hallucinating. In like two weeks we'll see Dee walking out of the last resurrection hot tub left on Earth.
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I literally said "What the fuck?" when Dee killed herself. I was %100 not expecting that. What fucked things up even more is the fact Ellen is the 5th, yet Starbuck clearly may not be human as well. Seems like it's strongly pointing towards everyone being Cylons, methinks!
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Good observations. Saul Tigh is and will continue to be THE MAN.
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I assume that some of the Earth cylons had figured out some kind of resurrection technology and the Final Five were able to survive the Holocaust and somehow end up with the Colonials... Ellen was killed by Tigh on New Caprica, so depending on how/where the Final Five equivalent of a resurrection ship is, she could still be alive.
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I never thought I'd actually be right about Ellen, but whatever, I was!
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Jan 16, 2009 10:13:31 PM CST
Maybe they should have had different final cylons depending on
by snowpuff
your region of the country.
That would have been meta. -
Nice sum up.
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She was in that episode more than she was in all of last season. There had to be a reason. Of course, there was. I bow to RDM once again. Absolutely stunning, this episode.
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it is a cycle and it does repeat and recur, and resurrection has been a bane upon these cylons.
my money is on the cylons being our successors, our creation who persisted while we perished to our own devices. and a handful of them decided to make themselves immortal, and it hasn't really worked out so well. perhaps they've put themselves time and time again into society hoping to influence it, only to frak it all up over and over again. -
I think Dee had a flashback to her life on earth just like the Chief and Tigh. The 5th isn't important because it's everyone!
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Seriously, I've been saying Ellen for awhile - makes sense. Gives emotional resonance to Tigh's story, explains why she wasn't on board when the others were called, and her improbably surviving in the first place and showing up how she did in the show.
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seriously, i'm with the characters on this show more than anything. it has never struck me as a puzzle, nor really pushed itself as one.
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dude, that would have been awesome
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Ellen is the 5th
Two Hybrids have prophisized that Kara will lead them to their doom.
Kara died and crashed on Earf
Something wearing Karas face burned the body and lied to Lee about not finding the signal source
Dee killed herself for no damn reason. Just did it.
People are fighting in the Galatica corridors and no one says or does anything
People are painting graffiti on the Galatica walls and no one says or does anything.
I'm putting my money on it being The Iblis Effect.
Whatever caused the Earf Cylons to destroy themselves is starting to effect the fleet
It's Iblis! -
That was worth waiting 7 months to see.
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Yes, finally a TV episode that delivered! However, I quickly scrolled and saw posts with negative subject lines. So... If you are a fan of this show and did not like tonight's episode, please stop watching. Not just this show, but ALL TV shows, movies, webisodes, and podcasts. In fact, stop listening to radio and reading books. Why? Cause NOTHING will satisfy you! You will find fault in every form of entertainment; and perhaps every form of reality. Oh and please, leave thew friggin rest of us alone. Spare us your BS. Go away.
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Roslyn saying the line if the preview: "we're coming for you!!!"
??
Goddamn, Beer of the Month delivery is doing me in :) -
Are they fucking kidding. I guess no one at KFC watches the show, thus avoiding the KFC Fuck Pack...
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I hated Helen and her drunken permiscuous ways. Even when tigh killed her I was actually happy.
>.>
o.k. that sounds bad. -
...we will be reborn..."What's also next is to find out WHO or WHAT was behind puting everything in place. It is likely someone we already know - In-Heads, Kara or someone else.
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a hard core munity / civil war
Iblis Effect!
They turn on each other for no reason or imagined slights. Just to lash out.
Iblis! -
...could also mean that the destruction of the planet is supposed to fit into some dark plan.In other words - "in place" - as in someone knew what was coming and planned ahead so that Ellen and Tigh would be reborn in the way that they were.
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from the flashbacks we saw in the episode it looks like the final five were all wealthy people from different walks of life. Its possible that resurrection was still experimental at the time of the holocaust and available only to wealthiest to try out. Similar to how rich people pay a lot of money to go to space in our world.The other models origin might be the same, but unlike the final five they chose to use the technology to gain power instead immortality.
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shouldn't that have bee the big reveal?
Seriously...excellent episode of an excellent series...kinda hard to believe that it is an NBC show.... -
Yum!
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If her body is laying on Earth, she must have resurrected, right? And now Ellen is the Fifth, also? It's starting to look like EVERYONE is a Cylon, just like all the skeletons they found on Earth.
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Dualla strange behavior after the date made me question her Cylonness as well, but Ellen. Hmm... I keep thinking about Resurrection technology. Did she and Tigh perfect it and is this not the first time they've been reborn? I'll take a rebooted Tyrol P.S. - so cute
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Kara will start showing her true face
Little things at first, like a smile or smirk when news of someones death or a disaster, then outright glee, then she'll openly reveal herself
You heard it here first -
It's really difficult to go from a tense emotional scene into an advertisement for sauceless hot wings. I'd like to win what's in the Big Frakkin Bag, but surely they could have found a way to go to commercial without jolting you out of the goddamn show so suddenly.
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But I do have a hard time with the 2000 years only on Earth thing. So then what are they saying there were Cylons living with humans on Kobol and those decided to go it alone to be the 13th to preserve humanity should the original 12 fall? But they are cylons so how does that work? Beyond that are they saying these Cylons just arrived on Earth and slipped into our society at some point in human history and then created centurions who ended up somehow wiping out humans in a war? What for? Aghhh....i guess this one created a TON of new questions....but all worth waiting to see the answers for!
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They have been hiding it pretty well. Baltar tested the crew yahrens ago?>
..The ancient ones, the Lords who first settled our Kobol, spoke of visitations from what they in their primitive way referred to as angels... old galactica show. -
I mean, now that there's such a short time to go it has the sense of urgency that always made the best BSG episodes...the best BSG episodes. Even though episodes like tonight make it bittersweet to see it go, still think it's a great idea to leave before that awkward moment where you're ready for it to go so you can go to sleep but it just stays around drinking your few remaining beers and talking about going back to school and making up with its girlfriend.
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Doesn't anyone remember the experiments the cylons did on Kara earlier in the series on Caprica?
This could easily explain how she came back. Maybe the cylons were trying to find ways to swell their ranks by making new models. -
I think the Cylons created the humans created the Cylons. All of this has happened before...And, I wonder if the gods were a race of Cylon...?
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is this gonna all end up being some bizarre connection to the original show??? Battlestar Galactica 1980 when they were on Earth and all that?? "All this has happened before and will happen again." COULD it be???
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Jan 16, 2009 10:43:58 PM CST
The Final 5 Are Only Significant in Caprica Cylon Mythology
by _maltheus_
It would seem that both Kara and Dee are Cylons. I had thought Dee was a Cylon since that Kobol episode where she manipulated Adama to rejoin with Roslin to find Earth. I feel even more certain of it now. She went to be reborn somewhere. And that'll lead to ultimately to Ellen.
I had always had a problem with there being only 12 Cylon models. I'm glad to see tonight that they're saying that the Caprica Cylons merely believe that because that's all they know about. It makes it a little less mystical. And of course, Roslin is a Cylon. It's the only way she'll surivive and the only thing that explains why she had those visions. While we're at it, I guess it opens the way for Baltar as well. Or all of them. -
but I thought he tested Ellen after she appeared out of nowhere and Bill thought she might be a Cylon. That was a good episode too. Very funny. I'm gonna have to watch it again to be sure...
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The Cylon Farm and the experiments on Kara are a great possible explanation. When she escaped, I remember that Kara had a scar that she could not explain.
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Best since, Exodus Pt. II!
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Jan 16, 2009 10:47:15 PM CST
so...what s tonites news gonna mean for the Caprica mini series?
by j2talk
isn't it supposed to deal with the "birth" of the Cylons????
I think we got a few more twists
coming....All is not as it seems....... -
It's stupid and out of the millions of humans all 5 amazingly survived the initial attack. I love the show but history will record the introduction of the 5 as the jump the shark moment.
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following from my other post, it makes sense to say that the humans are cylons, too... Gotta learn to make one big post instead of several little ones.
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Jan 16, 2009 10:49:02 PM CST
Memo to Heroes writers: THAT'S HOW YOU FINISH A CHARACTER'S STO
by pennsy
Not in the full-monty assed, chickenshit way you fuckers got rid of Elle.
/end rant ;) -
Let's hope Lost is as good next week...
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I had assumed they had removed her ovaries (gonna pretend I know whether that's possible or not) So, yeah, they could've easily cloned her and brought her memories back ala Dune-esque ghola techniques. Too far?
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Dee. Her full name is Anastasia Dualla; Anastasia is the feminine form of ANASTASIUS which is ancient Greek for RESSURECTION …
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"t's stupid and out of the millions of humans all 5 amazingly survived the initial attack"...uh, hi there. Do you even watch the show? THEY DIDN'T SURVIVE. They died. At some point they got resurrected. The question is how. I swear half the people in this talk back watch this show on mute or something.
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several seasons ago that Earthlings are human\cylon hybrids. Cylons having an antibody that *we the human viewers of the show have* but the humans we're watching in the show *don't have* = this show takes place eons before *our* human race, the ones reading this post...came to be...and we are their offspring.
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Baltar DID test Ellen in the episode in which she first mysteriously appeared, but he decided in that same episode (after Boomer tested positive) that he was gonna lie about all the results from here on out. Then, when In-Head Six asked him at the very end of the episode what Ellen's true results were, he was all "I'll never tell."
That's always been one of my biggest reasons for suspecting Ellen all this time. Another being that she & Saul never had a child after all this time (though, now that he's impregnated a Six, that holds less weight. I thought they couldn't reproduce b/c they were both cylons). Plus, she was dead and not in the fleet when the Final Five (four) were revealed, so that explained her absence. -
Ellen as the last Cylon makes no sense ... the character is dead, so there are no consequences to the discovery.The reason D'Anna says the last Cylon is not in the fleet is because the last of the 12 has not been encountered by the fleet ... yet. That is all.
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On a scale between 1-10
Was it ''fraked'' or ''Oh my Gods'' -
Tim Kring and his horrible Heroes can suck my balls. This is a real genre show.
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this "iblis effect" you speak of is in actual fact the writer's depiction of what happens to a microcosmic society on the brink of annhiliation when the source of all their hope turns out to be another new nightmare that offers no relief. it's not some magic, it's fucking human nature.
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They have never, ever said when this show takes place. It could be thousands of years ago, or thousands of years from now or (very very tiny chance) last Tuesday, so they did not establish what you claim they established.
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I thought Moore would reveal the 5th Cylon in the series finale. I am in awe of the work that was put into this whole series. Series bible, people.
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seems to be self-awareness and memory of their downloading....The HYBRID is the one behind it all :-)
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...share with anyone that Ellen was the Fifth.Unless, of course, she saw Someone Else in the Opera House.....
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But she AND her Viper were recreated...Tryol died on Earth, was reborn.Tigh and Ellen, same thing.So, it could be that EVERYONE who died/dies there is reborn.Dee may be back....
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For one what are the odds of an old pantheon coming back to the fore? Notice how they arent showing us any orbital view of 'earth'? Earth can be any number of planets if one wishes to call it that. Id wager BG ends not long before our earliest history begins.
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"All the pilots who died for this dream"Maybe NONE of them are truly gone...
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Everyone who's been to earth. I don't think we have seen the last of Dee. She may of had a flash back of her own while picking up the jacks. What gets me is what she said while looking at her baby picture ''She has no fraking idea whats ahead of her''.
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Maybe it was the locket with pictures of her parents? Gotta watch this ep over again...
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I just want to hear peoples thoughts on when they said "the 13th tribe left for earth...a tribe of cylons" How could there be a tribe of cylons and skinjobs 2,000 years ago when the humans on caprica etc only invented Cylons less than 100 years ago? It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me no matter how I think about it. Also, I don't understand how there could even be a tribe of cylons, because there are only 12 models plus centaurians, and you can't populate a whole planet with just the same people over and over right? They seem to establish the final five lived there 2,000 years ago, and they are unique, no copies. So how could there be a tribe of cylons? 7 models? It doesn't make sense. Does it?
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Lame. Lame. Lame.
And this is the episode that Herc thought kicked ass? I just don't see it. McDonough's a great actress? Gimme a break. She knew her lines, which is about as good as any of the actors got tonight. Olmos was gosh-awful, which I can only attribute to poor direction because I know he's better than he was tonight. The writing was worse than the acting. Nobody had any comprehensible motivation. -
Crow, why are you assuming the Earth Cylons are the same as the Colony Cylons? They already established that the Centurion model was a different design, despite it being similar. There's 9 episodes left, I'm %100 sure they will explain everything...primarily because of Ron Moore's recent interview.
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Maybe the cylons are really just the name slapped on normal humans from our Earth, and the 'humans' on the show are cylons?
Shit, wait let me sober up with another beer. I think I've got this. -
see any difference in your opinion and the general opinion throughout this topic?
and yes, you're entitled to your opinion. as I am of mine when I say "eat shit and die". -
Knowing the majority of the cast list for the remaining episodes...There will have to be a bizarre 'alternate reality' or flashback situation. Kate Vernon (Ellen) WILL be in the final episodes, as will Zak Adama - or they find the 'new' Earth - populated by Cylons that are the 'humans' they knew on Caprica.
Ellen is the fifth - it's not a red herring. It only shows that BSG is going to mindfuck us by the end of the series. -
Dee as the fifth cylon always seemed logical to me. She shunned Billy to be with Lee(be close to command) , implored Adama to reunite the fleet and find earth by saving those on New Caprica.
I think the writers pulled Ellen Tigh out of their asses because you couldnt think of a more irrelevant character in this show to surprise viewers. I mean come on ELLEN TIGH. Does this show sound planned out? -
"mindfuck us by the end of the series" or circle jerk
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But yea, after watching this episode, seeing the past lives flashback with the seeing the reincarnation stuff, the 'plot twist' to final fantasy x jumped into my head. Which is weird cause I havent thought about it since
In the game a human civilization is on the verge of total annihilation from an outside force, and knowing that they cant survive in the literal sense, decide to do the next best thing and use tech (or magic?) to convert/ copy all their memories and genetic makeup into data which is transmitted across the galaxy. Er wait I think thats what happened. Reading wikipedia seems like a lot of work right now. -
Young ellens?
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Just so it could be a marginal character?
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there has to be some mindfuck of a reason why dead characters are all appearing in the final batch of episodes!
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I gotta go back watch that episode where Baltar and Xena see the fifth with AWE. MUST be Ellen Tigh with a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue in her hand. Ellen Tigh hehehehhe
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managed to watch most of the marathon today on and off but I have a couple of questions; Are there more than one race or species of 'skinjob' Cylons in play - is it possible or that Tigh and the other three (and now Tigh's ex-wife) are not the final five and are not part of the Twelve (it might also explain Tigh and Six being able to procreate)? Also, is this Earth they have located the original home planet for all the skinjob Cylons we have encountered so far (D'Anna states she wants to stay behind with the bones of her ancestors)? Thanks.
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first, I called the 13th colony being "original" cylons and going to earth. they were most likely chased out by the other 12 who feared these humans who could reincarnate themselves either naturally or through technology. they left behind the path to earth so they could get "the 5" back to the colonies if they needed to. thats when the remaining 12 tribes sent ships out to destroy them 2000 years ago. the final 5 realize the only way to bring peace is by giving the human colonials the ability to reincarnate, thus starting the new "caprica" series with the invention of skinjobs and the idea of one god instead of many. and just like 2000 years ago, the cylons chase the humans back to earth, only this time, theyre hoping to end the war by uniting colonials and their cylon creations (hera, tyroles baby). of course we will see the opposite effect (to thow us off) over the next 7 or 8 episodes until the final revelation: starbucks a descendent of the original 13th tribe cylons.
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ronald moore has said that these cylons are very different, and the final ten episodes would explain how and why
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Somebody probably said this already, but doesn't it seem that that post series movie must deal with Earth of 2,000 years ago?
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"I love you. I love you. You're special. You have a destiny. You are special, Kara Thrace. I love you. I built a dollhouse for you and me to be happy together. Look! A child! Out child! You will hold me in your arms - you will embrace me - and tell me you love me. I've seen it. I love you Kara Thrace."
(Kara is suddenly VERY special.)
(((Leoben FLEES)))
Maybe the Cylon race was nuked because they act like deadbeat boyfriends. -
my favorite pick for number five came true! the genius in ron moore's working of this is that it came in a way that DIDN'T push tigh over the edge... in fact, it made him feel *better* about being a cylon. i never would have guessed that. i figured that if she came back as the final cylon, it would push him WELL over the deep end.
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Asshats!
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Humans could have been elsewhere, or left Earth. They only found a few hundred skeletons. But they were all Cylon. Trippy and weird. Answered the biggest questions, but the can of worms be opened now. Fucking hell.
I had to leave in the middle to get a pack of smokes. Motherfrakker. -
"Maybe the Cylon race was nuked because they act like deadbeat boyfriends." That's funny shit. Serious. The Cylon race is an intergalactic version of 'The View'.
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She has to be evil, maybe not on purpose. If the planet was full of Cylons, why were the Final 5 the only ones spared? How did they make it to the colonies and slip into their lives? And a dozen more questions. SHIT. Almost wish I would have stuck to my plan and not watch until it was all over. But I would have come here and spoiled it. Meh. Bring on next Friday.
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The Final 5 are a different breed, so to speak. But we have no idea how or why. They found a nuked Earth that's been dead for 2,000 years. But who knows what timeline they are working on. That's to say, did the human race thrive for centuries until skinjobs infiltrated and nuked the planet... like on the 12 Colonies? Who knows. No answers now. Only a shitload of questions.
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Ellen is the 5th...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/01/the-final-cylon.html -
WOW
WOW
GIANT. PIECE. OF. SHIT.
Unvelievably bad
Not sure I can finish this 2 hour pilot -
New style Cylons can be "reborn". Maybe only one at a time? They facimilies of 13th colony members. Attacked by old school robot-style cylons? Cylons existing 2000 years ago? When were Caprica Cylons "invented"? And what's with the Greek mythology again? Was this copied from ancient Earth history? Or vice versa? We got some answers and a great episode, but we got even MORE f*cking questions!!!! Argh! I love this show.
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because there's no other frakin' tv show on that even comes close to touching BSG's emotion.
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I thought the importance of the four hearing All Along the Watchtower was to show that it's in our future. In my head the timeline is: Humans created Cylons 4000ish years ago, eventual war broke out, humans left Earth, humans settled on a new planet Kobol, humans made a religion to pass on their history, Cylons found Kobol, humans left Kobol, humans settle on Caprica. Not really a timeline though since I give no times.
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Those of you who are stomping their feet, insisting that Dee will return, and that Ellen can not possibly be the 12th...Kandyse McClure (Dee) is NOT on the cast list for 4.12 - 4.20. Kate Vernon (Ellen) is.
Oh, c'mon. How could it NOT be Ellen?
The previously 'revealed' Cylons were all a part of the New Caprica resistance. The 'Last Supper' promo pic - which Moore was honest about the 12th not being pictured - showed an empty seat next to Tigh. Her introduction into the series - even if it was something the writers pulled out of their collective asses - was always questionable, and Baltar sabotaged her 'test'.
Ellen never 'fit in' - other than being Tigh's bizarre soul mate. But that was telling as well.
Have you ever met a couple like Tigh and Ellen? Not Cylons of course - but just two fucked up people who are a textbook example of emotional masochism? They always get back together. They'll tear each other to shreds - but attack anyone who tries to separate them. If you've witnessed a couple like this - you tend to stand back in awe. They have their own reality. They are two neutron stars - feeding off of each other.
It makes sense. Our Adam and Eve are fuck-ups. -
Geesh. I don't get some of the skepticism going on. "Oh, the final 5 cylons are just random. I don't see any established reason these folks should be connected and all be cylons. Why make one of them a dead character? How can the cylons on Earth predate the invention of the cylons. That's bad writing."
Have a little faith, people. Just because you haven't have the logic of many of these plot points revealed doesn't mean they don't exist. For example, while it still isn't 100% clear what the final 5 fully have in common we do now see they all were victims of the Earth apocalypse and that they all seemed to know each other. I'm guessing it will turn out they had a plan akin to Jorel in Superman to get some of them off the planet.
As to how the Earth cylons can predate the "invention" of the cylons, I can hazard a pretty elaborate guess. Let's assume there was a non-robot race called cylons that predate humanity. They were humanoid and had a similar but more elaborate genetic makeup. I'll say they were mono-theistic too. They had 12 colonies. One group set off for Earth to found a 13th colony called Earth. Also, they had found some scientfic non-computer based way to transfer their essence from one body into another. These cylons invented the first robotic centurions as their servants. They also genetically engineered a new race... humans. Like almost anyone inventing something new, the race they invented was similar to them but inferior, less complex. Why did they create humanity? Maybe just out of the need for scientific achievement, maybe because their race was dying off or losing the ability to reproduce. Maybe it was tied to their ability to move into new bodies.
Now the new humans wouldn't see the Old Cylons as just other humanoids. They're older and more powerful, etc. They'd see them as gods. To the humans they would become their gods. Eventually the colonial Old Cylons die off. Killed by humanity? Did the line simply fail? Doesn't matter. They died... at leats physically. But maybe at least some of them were able to vacate their bodies without having new bodies to occupy. They're just... out there.
Long years pass. The Old Cylons become the gods of old. Humanity starts to make their own creations: the new robot cylons. Meanwhile, on Earth, things go wrong. The world is destroyed. But 5 of the Old Cylons have figured out how to not only exit their physical forms but to launch them through the blackness of space back towards the colony. The journey will take thousands of years. They think they're aiming their souls at a planet of their peers where maybe bodies will be ready for them or some such.
Meanwhile, in the colonies the robot cylons get setient enough to be a problem. The first cylon war happens. The cylons go off to form their own world. The Old Cylons minds that are adrift see an opportunity. Maybe they couldn't take up residence in human bodies. Maybe if they go into a human they can't override a human mind and can only be a passenger, maybe talk to the human they inhabit as a vision. But the much more primitive robotic cylons? Them they can take over and use them to resume the work of recreating new organic cylons, humanoids more complex than humans, bodies they might be able to do something with, use to return. They impart the cylons with their religious beliefs: one god, reincarnation...
Eventually the Old Earth Cylon minds reach the colonies. There are no true Old Cylon bods for them to occupy. What to do? They inhabit human bodies. Only, again, they don't want to just be passengers. So they install themselves in minds they can overpower: fetuses or babies or small children. Only they lose their memories in the process. An effect of the thousands of years bodiless in space? A side effect of taking up residence in human bodies not quite compatible with their minds? Dunno. But their memories are lost or locked off.
Now why would the Old Cylons push things in the direction of having their New Cylons fight the humans? Not sure. But I'd say the illusionary Baltar and Six are the Oldies and that they're manipulating events from behind the scenes for a reason.
Of course I could be entirely wrong. -
Just wanted to correct something from way earlier about what went down on B5 Seasons 4 & 5 in terms of production. Above someone seemed to say that season 5 was weaker due to budget concerns and network tinkering. I think only the budget half is true. TNT did mess with Crusade but with B5 Season 5 I think the reasons Season 5 was... lesser... were very different.
The poster above was right that it looked like B5 wasn't going to go to Season 5. Not exactly for lack of funds though but for lack of distribution. The syndication package they were originally a part of fell apart. At the end of Season 4 they threw in the towel and weren't going to back another season, weren't going to distribute another season. So sort of "no money" but more than just that. So for Season 4 show creator JMS rejiggers things. Lesser plots get sidelined and he works to jamb in and finish with closure all the major plots he possibly can. The result is that Season 4 is a like a rocket going a billion miles an hour. It's a season and a half of plot squished into one. Each episode tons of important things happen. It's crazy intense and fast paced. Then at the end of the season all the major plots are largely wrapped up and the show really pulls to a full stop.
Cut to TNT picking up Season 5. They do so with a lower budget. Signs of this? Previously you'd have lots on shots of the big shots crowded with extras. Not in Season 5. In the Day Of The Dead episode there is a specific scene that by all rights should have happened in the crowded Zocalo. Instead it is staged in the empty, less extra intensive halls of the abasadorial wing.
In addition to $$$ issues though there's another issue. Previously, each season would end feeding plots and such into the next one. But, again, season 4 went at a million miles an hour, wrapped up all major plots and then brought everything to a stop. So Season 5 could not hit the ground running. They had to start things moving again from zero. All the plots that were sidelined in Season 4 had to be reintroduced and then revved up to full speed. Now under normal circumstances that would make Season 5 feel slower but coming on the heals of the end of Season 4, with a lower budget the start of Season 5 feels even less spectacular.
Not going to say Season 5 isn't flawed but I don't think you can blame it on network tinkering. Just the results of the reality of the situation in terms of budget and where the plot was. -
Jan 17, 2009 2:59:54 AM CST
Jinxo...but what happened...? (POSSIBLE BIG SPOILER - BE CAREFUL
by donnadarko
While I enjoyed your write-up, you missed one hypothesis.
All of the bodies found on 'Earth' so far are Cylon. Following your theory, was it the negative image of Caprica? The Cylons created human slaves who eventually destroyed their creators? But if that's the case - why the 'robot' Cylon remains?
Tyrol was obviously a 'free man' - shopping for food. Anders was a popular musician. Tigh/Ellen seem to be a 'normal' couple. If they were all cylons back then - why only '5'?
The big spoiler that has leaked out - the final scene will be 'Head Six' walking through a populated Times Square. How does that fit in?? -
...Seriously...is there ANY TV show more humorless than this fucking pretentiousness-fest?
All the same, I'll keep watching in the hope that they'll all break into "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life" at the end.
Sheesh. -
weird and mediocre. There has been the occasional great episode, or moment. But those have been few, and far in between. I love the beginning of this show, but it has been a slow decline in quality ever since they tried doing stand alone episodes. Moore, and his writing team really need to focus and try to distill what the purpose of this show is. Frak! The ending is going to be so disappointing. :(
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Hey! I think you'd like it! Also, check out Farscape. And Spaced.
Because BSG has been going for 5 years now. It's always been dark and rather depressing; so trolling the boards to slam it for being a "fucking pretentiousness-fest" is rather 2004 of you. I'm guessing it's highly unlikely that Roslin will have a humorous cousin - that rascal who was the crack-up of the Astral Queen - show up to cockblock Adama with various hijinx.
The series has ALWAYS been depressing and grim. Why are you beaming in to complain about it in 2009? -
over at GalacticaSitrep.blogspot.com u can find a link to Maureen Ryan from the Chicago Tribune interviewing the writers, producers and directors for tonites episode! some tidbits: apparently Cavil knew the identities of the Final 5!!
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I don't think tho Old Cylons would have created humans as slaves. More of a lesser extension of their own race. Again, maybe trying to create a new way to extend their own race and/or lives. The robot cylons were the things they created to be their servants. There is no sign of humans on Earth so the Earth Old Cylons might have split before man was created. They headed out with just their robot cylon servants.
As to how the final 5 are connected? That they have to reveal. But they have indicated they did all know each other. And assuming they could exit their human bodies, exiting them and getting them back to the colonies are two different things. Like I said, I'm thinking a Krypton type logic: those specific 5 Cylons for whatever reason had developed a way to send their "souls" across the galaxy and back to the 12 Colonies. So the general population might be able to separate soul from body but they didn't have the ability to send them back to Caprica and Caprica Adjacent. So the nukes start blowing and these five quickly implement their device to evacuate themselves while nobody else can.
As to Six in Time Square? Hadn't heard that. Will believe it when I see it. Just because intentionally wrong leaks are common practice for so many shows at this point. But... if the idea is this is all happening in our past (which would make sense given all the oooold school gods and such that are common to B5 and Earth's past cultures) it could be the idea that the Old Cylon "gods" still walk among us today without our being aware. The Earth recovers, gets rebuilt and the Oldies simply find a way to reincarnate even to present day. -
Wow. Just . . . wow! Great episode. And once again, Galactica doesn't let the plot dominate the characters.
Love that this episode answered many mysteries while posing new ones (or reframing existing ones - what the fuck IS Starbuck?).
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I think mankind created the skinjob Cylons not so much as slaves or servants, but as replacement bodies for themselves (the series Caprica seems to touch on this). I mean, think about it - you could live forever if you could upload your consciousness into a Cylon body.
I think that's why the Lords of Kobol were the "Lords of Kobol". They were immortals. They were Cylons. Then some rift took place and there was a war. They probably lost the ability to resurrect as their technological infrastructure was destroyed. Some fled in ships, discovering and settling the Colonies. Others made it to Earth. Like the current Cylons post-Civil War, the Colonials couldn't resurrect. But it looks like the folks who made it to Earth never lost the ability, or rediscovered it long before the Colonials did.
Then around 2000 years ago, for reasons as yet unknown, there was another apocalypse. Earth and its many Cylons were wiped out, but at least 5 of them were able to resurrect in the Colonies. How they managed that isn't clear yet - maybe the Hybrids had something to do with it, or maybe Cylon technology was more advanced in the Colonies pre-Cylon War than was generally known (again, what we know of Caprica tends to support this).
So now we have these 5 (OK, now 4) Cylons from Earth running around in the Colonies and then in the fleet. Their agenda is liable to be radically different from that of the Colonial Cylons. Indeed, it looks to me like these Cylons are invested in the survival of the human race - not its destruction. Maybe their ultimate goal is to convert humanity into Cylons, not to destroy them.
Although this begs the question of why the Earth Cylons wiped themselves out to begin with. Assuming they weren't attacked by some other faction (perhaps another leftover faction from Kobol itself).
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does that mean I'm a cylon?
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Ron Moore and the other writers revealed in Maureen Ryans interview that it was Ellen who D'anna said "forgive me, I had no idea." in the interview he also explains why Dee killed herself. Basically she knew that after Earth turned out to be a big bust, she realized things would never get better so she just wanted a moment to feel better about herself (her date with lee) and then she just wanted to put an end to this nightmare.
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BSG is the best series among the Gods-dammed frakkin shows out there- frakkin blows everything away. This episode is among the best of the series. All da haters Frak Off!!!! (OK I wanted to say "frakkin" a few times as a tribute to the great BSG). Frakkin A!!!!!!!!!!
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Fact is the show has the right to the most depressed collection of poeple on TV.
BurnHollywood, you are watching the wrong fucking show.
How about we make a comedy movie set in one of the towers when it goes down on 9/11? When the main guy gets out in time, he gets a hardy laugh with his buds about "making it in time", winks at the camera, while it pans out to the towers dropping. Overlay that image with the theme music from CSI:Miami and we might have a movie for you. Shit ends but everyone is happy.
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And I have to admit, whoever said that comment about the show falling off after mid-season two, at one point I agreed with that. But rewatching the whole series this last week made me completely turn my opinion around. I actually find most of them beyond that point just as great. Everything flows so much better when you put a bookend on it and know where it's heading. The show is far more serialized now than it was back in season one/two. At least now the plot is going somewhere. The old episodes feel so aimless.
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you know what would be all sorts of great?
six walks through a populated times square.
sees a baby carriage.
says "how small they are..."
all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
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Jan 17, 2009 6:20:02 AM CST
glad to see there are just as many new questions as ones answere
by cyrent
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missed that
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I haven't watched this episode yet and I haven't read the above posts for fear of spoilers, BUT - I have FOREVER thought and said that the final cylon is Apollo's long assumed dead brother. They're constantly referencing him - and I Just don't see how having another person we've already met could be surprising for the final cylon since we've all been guessing for the past year. Mark my words! It's Apollo's brother!
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The final 5 are at least 2000 years old. But we know that Caprican centurions were invented only about 60 years ago. So the skinjobs didn't "evolve" from the centurions in the Darwinian sense of the word. The centurions fled the Colonies after the war, and ran into the Earth skinjobs and "merged". There's no other way for the 7 "previously known" Cylons to have any idea who the final 5 are or why they should give a shit about them.
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http://www.tvguide.com/News/Veronica-Mars-Movie-1001755.aspx. Rob Thomas said Cupid's episode order was nearly cut in half (from 13 to 8), so that's going to free up time to write the big-screen treatment. K-Bell is on board as well, if/when it happens.
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One of the huge problems with season 5 was that Straczinski's Bible notes for for that season were accidently lost. They were on a disc in a hotel room that JMS was staying in. While he was out, a maid threw them in the trash and they were gone. Straczinski had to play catch up right before production. It was probably going to be much better than it was...
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Battlestar Rules Period ! The only thing bad about it is the wait . As for people bitching about this and that ect shut up and just accept the show and be greatfull because theres alot of shit on tv and this shines through . I hope the team behind this get some money and start making big budget films because i think it will be money well spent .
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It had to be said. Going to KFC for that Frak Pak right now.....
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And if Ron Moore is telling the entire truth, and that Ellem IS the 12th, then - as much as I've loved BSG - he can go take a sh*t on his own face, eat it and die ... because Ellen is the worst choice for the final Cylon he could have made.
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Step back for just a second. How exactly did Ellen make it on the shuttle? Some of the other things that she did were over time were clearly clues. Once she was revealed, it made sense. Great writing and a great episode. Perhaps the 5th wasn't who you thought it should be, that doesn't make it terrible.
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That was on the letterhead of the B*** EPA
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Jan 17, 2009 8:26:40 AM CST
(POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE)This will all end up being related to
by inactionman
Mormonism. I am no expert on the Mormon faith but I was reading in this weeks Entertainment Weekly about the opening credits for "Big Love" that Mormons believe that they will all be resurrected on another planet with all their loved ones.
Remember that the Glen Larson the creator of the original BSG is a Mormon. There was a lot of Mormon stuff in the original series and RDM has been winking at the original series throughout this one.
SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILER
According to some spoiler sites the final scene of BSG takes place back at that big plaza from the mini where Roslin remembers seeing Baltar meet up with Caprica Six. The entire cast is shown there happy and healthy.
Also remember when the whole cast went on Letterman last year in costume to do the Top 10 list. They supposedly shot some scenes for the show in Times Square.
They are all some sort of Cylon. and Cylon = "Space Mormon"
ENDSPOILERENDSPOILERENDSPOILER -
In the last episode of the third season, when Starbuck comes flying back, they clearing show a shot of Earth. The shot has a very clear image of North America.
Since they've gotten to "Earth", I haven't seen one clear shot of that planet. Nothing that would make it stand out as Earth.
Now how's going to revealed as "God"? Cylons keep talking about him like he's real. Head Six keeps talking about him as if he's real. I think he's going to pop up before this is all over.
Here's hoping it's Dirk Benidict! -
I'm hoping for a "what the frak!?!" ending. Thanks, flickchick, now that you mention it, I remember the final scene. At the time, I did think it interesting, but it must've faded from memory when I lost all those brain cells watching Heroes. I think someone mentioned the hybrid controlling all of this. Kinda makes sense. PLUS, the Caprica Cylons can't have anything to do with Starbuck coming back. Remember Leoben's reaction? Something to the effect, "I can't explain this." I loved his reaction, though. It seemed like someone who thought he was control of a situation just realized he was out of the loop and about to be bitten by a rebellious pitbull.
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I know I'm gonna get blasted for this but..what the fuck.
The one thing I see missing from the whole Cylon story is the lack of a "Imperious Leader" type character. As fans of the OS will remember, the Cylons were ruled by a big-headed lizard like thing sitting a big chair. (hey! it was the 70's!!) He later appeared on the fleet as Count Iblie, and claimed to be the one to lead the humans to earth. (Gee, does that sound familiar!!)
Iblie was later revealed as the actual leader of the Cylons when the REMAINS of his CRASHED SHIP were found a deserted PLANET.
(This scene terrified me as a little kid, and it remains one of the few episodes I can recall in detail 30 years later.)
In the new series, Leoben is clearly terrified of Starbuck. Maybe he had brief glimpse of Starbucks true nature.
Just a thought. -
EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED!!! That being said...not sure that I was 100% thrilled with the revelation of the 5th...but I was a bit surprised. That being said...how bout that 13th tribe, huh? Sweet!!! All this has happened before...& it will happen again. Shocked shitless that D blew her noggin out! Poor Lee.
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The long layoff may hurt but frankly this episode was pretty underwhelming for me. More anguish, more drinking, more guns to the head blah, blah, blah. Haven't we seen enough of this already?
The reveal of the final Cylon was also a letdown. A character that I never cared for. She's the final Cylon? OK. I guess. I'm less interested in who the final 5 were and more why they were Cylons. And this reaching back 2000 years stuff is not floating my boat too much right now.
Still, given the show's track record, I'm confident things will pick up. -
That being said...there...I said it. Heh heh heh. Waaaaaaaaay to early for a drunkard to be dawning.
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Um, can you point out during the original miniseries where, Tigh, Anders, etc died during the initial attack? I missed that one, dolt.
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With people posting their doctoral dissertations here? Don't you need to be in graduate school for that to matter?
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http://tinyurl.com/9oan24
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. . . and it will happen again." There's a wizard behind the curtain here yet to be acknowledged. The "plan" of the Cylons is a misdirection and not the Cylons we've been watching aver the past seasons. There's a bigger mind frakkin' picture here and when that whole time/space/reality thing is delivered to close this out then we will know what the Matrix really is.
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...this morning...post beer ~n~ tequila :^)
I really like the idea (posted above a few times) that the Lords of Kobol maybe created skinjobs as a mechanism for being immortal. If that's the case, they may have become complacent, their lives diluted because there's no death (which is a theme of the show, or at least among the splinter group of Cylons).
Maybe Earf (that kills me BTW), was where the LOK setup like a "test" - a world of non-recycling skinjobs. Then they could have easily preprogrammed them with any history - so these cylons wind up creating their own cylons (the old school Centurion model), eventually develop a reincarnating tech, go to war with their creations? Or maybe the LOK stepped in (since it's their "project" and saved key cylons because they had something that could contribute positively to their other experiments (the other colonies) [?]
Regardless, their experimental worlds seemed to be doomed to repeat what happened to the LOK themselves, unless this cycle there's some new. Hahaha, I think I just paraphrased the plot of the Matrix :^) -
So is the random blonde chick hanging out in the store with Tyrol when the nukes hit the 13th Cylon? Who the hell ever knew for certain there were 12 models anyway?
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bitch could have at least given up that ass before she went out.
It seems clear the next step is for the fleet to take off looking for a habitable star system, there will be a split among the factions in the fleet, 12 of them will head off to one star cluster while the "13th" will head off to a new Earth. Thus beginning it all again. -
I had always thought that Ellen was an older version of the Six model. They look similar enough. Plus, if the twelve Cylon models were supposed to be the twelve types of people, why would two of them be so alike?
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So the whole final five thing isn't so much about them being the unknown models as it is about them being the final five survivors of Earth, and that is why the Cylons refer to them as the Final Five and hold them in reverence
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it looked great. this show always looks awesome. that always gets it an extra hug or TWO. i gave up on all the schizo character writing a long time ago.
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and suicidal thought among lots of characters...The Four remembered their own lives (and deaths) there. Maybe everyone else is having similar, but less clear, connections to their own pasts there....Everyone seems to have just shut down. When they move away from there, they may recover a bit.
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Doesn't anyone think that there is a possibility that what we learn about Starbuck finding her own dead body is that EVERYONE is a Cylon!?!
She is obviously some kind of Cylon hybrid (perhaps the first) and if there was a whole planet of Cylons, then perhaps there are no humans!
We'll see in 9 weeks, won't we. -
Jan 17, 2009 10:46:45 AM CST
This show kicked so much fucking ass I don't know...
by leafar the lost
...where to begin. Ron Moore doesn't create predictable shit, like a Rick Berman episode of Star Trek: Enterprise. I never expected this ending, and it isn't over yet! Maybe some of you assholes who are hating on this episode need to stop watching BSG, and watch reruns of Berman produced Star Trek episodes, or Shitgate: FU-1/Atlantis, because that is all that your tiny brains can handle! BSG kicks ass! This episode kicked ass! I can't fucking wait until next week. My Gods, how can anyone with half a brain not like this episode? You haters are a bunch of motherfrakers...
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the most annoying thing about this whole arc is that everyone is so surprised and devastated about earth being nuked. Was it really that unpredictable? I mean, if there were humans, there's a pretty high chance it'll be nuked.. the other 12 colonies were nuked, new caprica was nuked.. I would have been surprised if earth WASN'T nuked.
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What about all the time Ellen spent on New Caprica bangin' a Cavil? Kinda Icky, if you ask me
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What about all the time Ellen spent on New Caprica bangin' a Cavil? Kinda Icky, if you ask me
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...real, deep human drama; logical plotting; tight film making; 3 dimensional performances. Simply excellent. It's going to be hard to wade through another 2 season of Lost (!) after watching these last 10 episodes of BSG.
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"Um, can you point out during the original miniseries where, Tigh, Anders, etc died during the initial attack? I missed that one, dolt."...I thought you were referring to the flashbacks to 2000 yrs ago.
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also why didnt the cylons react to the 5 before...why are they willing to accept the 5 at face value? what changed ?
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this show compared to most other television is like comparing 480i to 1080p
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Maybe he did. Maybe the Cavil faction doesn't look at them in the same way.
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I live in the UK I cant be expected to wait for the DVD's.
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What if...humans on earth foresaw the earth's destruction from say nuclear war. They try to do a "Jor-El" and find a way to make sure humanity goes on in some form. They create a way to 'download' their essence into robots. Robots that have one imperative.
Evolve themselves to the point that they essentially recreate humanity.
Just because the Galactica do their tests and call the remains on Earth 'cylon' doesn't mean they are what we think of when WE say Cylon.
I'm not even attempting to answer all the questions but at the least the Final Five could have been the people in charge of the Cylon evolution program on Earth.
Obviously, things got muddled, tribes divided, wars and civil wars (what a horrible term). But this would support people who say EVERYONE at this point is a Cylon, just at different points of evolution. -
So what was in the locket that Dee picked up that made her blow her brains out?
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Remember, BSG follows the old series much more closely than you think it does. This planet is Terra. The people on Planet Terra were believed to be the 13th colony. The difference here is that the people are seemingly all dead.
Loved this episode BTW... sets us back into awesome quality TV. Dee's role in the last episode shocked the hell out of me.
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I thought BSG was broadcast at the same time in the UK on Sky1
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I will buy the dvds too though so I'm not a master criminal.
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Jan 17, 2009 12:20:36 PM CST
TO the peeps who disliked this episode or the show as a whole
by phil connors
please open your locker, look at the photos of your family's past, take off the ring on your finger, then blow your brains out.
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The locket appeared to contain family pictures.It certainly seemed to set something in motion for Dee -- like the guitar did for Anders - which indicates that she might have had Earth history and memories also.
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I thought you couldn't tell them apart.
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Maybe the locket has significance, but the camera didn't fixate on it or anything... she didn't have any revalation or anything. It seems to me that she had planned the entire affair... she wanted to make peace with Apollo and have one last special moment. I was really annoyed that the writers did that, but only because I liked her character, not because it was wrong to do.
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She had a happy moment that she didn't want to end, but she knew it would never last. She didn't want to go back to feeling depressed again so she blew her brains out.
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Jan 17, 2009 12:55:59 PM CST
Hmmm, I guess I interpreted Dee's Death Differently from Everyon
by _maltheus_
After reading an interview with the actress, it does seem like she's really gone, but I still have my doubts. When I watched the episode, I thought for sure that some piece of programming activated her and had her kill herself to be reborn, leading the story back to Ellen of course. I mean, there has to be a resurrection hub near Earth for the final 5 to be reborn. And I don't care what RDM says, it seems pretty obvious that Starbuck was reborn near Earth as well. I didn't think it was a real suicide for one minute, when I was watching the thing, especially as she was humming some kind of "music" when it happened. Am I the only one who thinks that we'll be seeing her again?
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Jan 17, 2009 1:25:18 PM CST
Like all family reunions, I found this to be quite painfull....
by billyeveryteen
Oh Dee, why'd you quit girl?
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A lot of stuff from that episode seems eerily predictive: Six telling Baltar "this is one to keep your eye on" when he's examining Ellen, and the ending where it's suggested that he may not be telling the truth about her passing the Cylon test.
I would be ready to believe that this whole thing was carefully mapped out from the beginning until I read the above-linked RM interview where he admits that they didn't decide on Ellen being the final Cylon until this season, and the very idea of there being a "Final Five" wasn't hit upon until Season 3. Still, there's a lot of stuff that ends up working well, whether it was planned from the beginning or not.
The thing that I personally like about Ellen being the Fifth is that there were so many characters (Laura, Starbuck, Baltar) that would have made everyone say, "Well who didn't see *that* coming." We would have felt let down because it would have seemed too obvious.
Not only that, but bringing Ellen back does a really nice thing with Tigh's character, giving him a sense of hope and purpose when everyone else has given up. The thought that their fucked-up relationship might have some eternal galactic significance is pretty cool (if, like someone suggested, these millennia-old Cylons gave rise to the legends of the Greek gods, maybe the Tighs were the source for Zeus and Hera, whose rocky relationship in Greek mythology actually bears some resemblance to Saul and Ellen's). -
You've hit the nail, on the head.
This is the planet Terra. Starbuck will be found to have had an encounter, with the "Ship of Lights", or whatever this new series portrays it as. In the old series, Starbuck was killed, by Count Iblis; and the "people" on the "Ship of Lights" brought him back. Also, any time the Galactica pilots interacted, with that ship (and later on, Edward Mulhare's character) their uniforms turned white. This will somehow explain why Starbuck has a brand new Viper.
...I wonder if they'll bring in an Eastern Alliance kind of thing... -
Question: That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?
Answer: They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth.
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I take it to mean this isn't *our* Earth. It's just a planet given the name "Earth" by the 13th Colony (a colony of Cylons...means skinjobs have been around for 2,000+ years)
http://tinyurl.com/9oan24
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all of this has happened before and will happen again! humans created cylons , they rebelled they evolved and nearly wiped out humanity. the survivors set out to search for a mythical planet called Kobol. they suffered many casualties along the way because of the war with the cylons. the cylons had a civil war and the rebels made an alliance with the humans.defeated the evil cylons, eventually found kobol, divided into 13 tribes and lived in peace with one another until the planet could not sustain life anymore. so the 12 human tribes and the one cylon tribe went their own way. eventually both human and cylon tribes forgot about their history and fact became myth. fast forward 2,000 years the earth cylons maybe not aware they are cylons anymore create robot cylons that obliterate the earth. using resurrection technology created by 5 scientists (tigh,tyrol,tory, ellen and anders) these five cylons set out to search for their long lost Kobol "brothers". fast forward 1,000 years the resurrected cylons live in the 12 colonies, but every time they resurrect their memories get wiped and they have to start over. the 12 colony humans create cylon robots that rebel and well you know the rest of the story...
i know it doesn't explain "everything" (starbuck,the "head" characters, God) but that i will leave that to ron moore since they are questions of a more metaphysical nature and my theory is mostly of a physical nature -
There have been enough 'red herrings' to jerk us around. I'm still not convinced that this is Earth. And just because Tigh yelled that Helen was the fifth doesn't necessarily make it so...
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Our Earth. Nothing specific was introduced to lock in that this "Earth" is/was ours. No continent ID from space, no cultural references.(Remains/flashbacks had no specific proper names like "New York" or whatever.) All generic Earth-like stuff. Nothing specific. So I'm not convinced. Yet.
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Jan 17, 2009 2:24:00 PM CST
For those still doubting or trying to overcomplicate things..
by lemming
1. Ellen is the 5th. From her line, it's obvious the five were privy to ressurection technology that the rest of the planet weren't.2. Dee killed herself because Earth wasn't the salvation everyone hoped for. She had one last night of normalcey first. It was totally premeditated. The Galacticans do not carry around sidearms all the time.3. It's Earth. It's Earth. It's Earth.
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No of course they don't come right out and say it. Think about it though. WE are humans. So we are to assume that these humans we're watching are either in our past, present or future. We know that these humans aren't our future generations, because they don't have an antibody that we have. So we also know they're not in our present, for the same reason. The only logical way for them to be missing antibodies that we have, is for them to have come before us. They encountered something at some point that introduced the antibody into the genetic code, and it's been there ever since. And that thing that was introduced, was cylon dna.
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I didn't hate this episode, and I've enjoyed the series as a whole, but I'm surprised at the overwhelming gushfest that has ensued.
Does anybody else think it was weak storytelling to have Starbuck, who was pivotal in getting the fleet and the Cylons to work together and find this 'Earth' was pretty much forgotten about by Bill, Lee, Anders, Roslin, etc. while they were on Earth? Since Starbuck claimed to have been there before, and her locator was guiding them to Earth, shouldn't the first thing Bill and Roslin think to do when they find that the Earth is a blistered mess would be to turn to Starbuck and ask 'Hey Kara...what's up with this?'
Then Starbuck is walking around with her beacon, finds her own corpse, burns it, with no-one even caring where she is or what she's doing?
Then she goes to Lee to explain the crazy stuff she's just been through, he drops the Dee news on her, and she decides her story can wait...even though her news is probably more important to the survival of the human race.
I found that all to be very weak, and hope that the next 9 episodes are tighter than that.
The Elen reveal was 'eh' for me as an initial reaction, but as with anybody it ended up being I'll reserve full judgement on that decision until the story plays out. -
Ever since Baltar started his 'Religion' In-Head Six has vanished, to be replaced (at least in one ep) In-Head Baltar. If we want to take as a given that this suggests that the In-Heads are something more than psychosis, and furthermore can 'move around'.... where has In-Head Six gone? It seems obvious to me, who else has been having visions of an imaginary blonde friend?
Hera.... -
They also don't have a 'Type O' universal blood type (the most common type on our Earth...
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Let's start from "All ALong The Watchtower" .. we know Bob Dylan wrote it in our past, so this must be our future.
At some point in our future, we will develop technology (nano-technology?) that essentially turns us into a new race (don't call us Cylons just yet!) Remember, Cylons can jack themselves into their computers systems through their bellybutton, or whatever ... so their bodies do fundamentally differ from our 21st century ones (and from the human cst of Galactica).
What if this technology became so advanced that it altered DNA and got passed on to future generations? That would explain why everyone who is dead on Earf is a "cylon".
Now, obviously there would be a lot of resistance from present-day religious groups from such humanity-altering technology, just as their are groups who object to stem-cell labs or abortion centres. Messing with nature creates srong feeling ... and a schism in society would no doubt occur, with "nano-humans" on one side, and those who reject such technology on the other. I like the idea of a select few humans having access to ressurection hubs and new bodies ... wouldn't that just smack of blasphemy, or "slapping god in the face?" Seems like the whoel series is turning out to be a homiliy on the dangers of the moral pitfalls of using advanced technology to alter our humanity, and likewise the dangers of reactionist extremism which flourishes in its wake. Happened before, happened again ... happening now! -
Yeah, same deal. blood types are determined by the antibodies, they go hand in hand.
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As a cylon, it is my right to own a Centurion!
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I can practically guarantee that 95% of those who are bitching about Ellen being the final cylon would have bitched about WHOEVER the final cylon was. TPTB knew they couldn't pull off a shocking reveal with a major character, a la Adam or Roslin, and make it worth all the buildup, so instead they went with a reveal that's shocking in a WTF? way as opposed to a ZOMG! way.
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My BSG history: I hated the first half of the original miniseries when I saw it, then something "clicked" with me when I watched the second half, and I thought it was promising. Liked the show's first few seasons, but felt it really started going downhill after the exodus from New Caprica (which should've happened halfway through the 3rd season, or maybe even later, IMO -- a lot of missed story opportunities there.) However, I really felt the show ran off the rails at the end of the 3rd season -- I thought the trial of Baltar was dull as hell, and the resurrection of Kara (to the strains of a modern-day rock song) was the moment that I felt the show had officially jumped the shark. Finally, the entire 4th season seemed to be largely filler, and I found myself scanning through big chunks of many episodes out of boredom. Unfortunately, I've found that the fact the producers ARE making this show up as they go along has become increasingly obvious, and RDM and Co. seem to think that whenever they need to jolt the audience, they simply have characters shoot someone and/or have an affair. It worked the first few times, but after a while it's become really tedious. I just don't care about these people anymore, and the show is so unremittingly grim that it's become a chore to sit through. I do want to see how it all ends, but at this point (sadly), I've grown really tired of it.
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Jan 17, 2009 4:11:33 PM CST
I love this show but, as a first episode of a new half-season, i
by i hope you die
It had interesting developments if you're a fan looking for answers and contained some good character work. But I can't help but think they just alienated a lot of viewers who are less into the show than those of us who rant about it on the internet. I think viewing figures are going to show a harsh drop unless they bring some action soon (like next episode). I can see why people would be disappointed.
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as sad as it sounds, I strongly suspect time travel is involved. I think they are going to find something in space that transports them back thousands of years into the past. The humans and cylons will settle and co-habitate on pre-nuked Earth, interbreed, and create the current modern day human race. Eventually the earth will get nuked, and everyone dies.
At some point, somehow the 5 get resurrected, and go on living for thousands of years, and eventually end up on Galactica, destined to travel to Earth, go back in time, and do it all over again. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happened again.
This is why Anders not only remembers playing Watchtower, but he remembers playing it for the other 3. Because on Earth, in the past, they were all friends, being the only remaining survivors from Galactica, after everyone else has long died from old age.
I think it will also be pretty cool if the 5 remained dead on the Earth all the way until the new Cylon generation of Adama's time. A Cylon ressurection ship eventually passes close enough to our star system and poof, they suddenly have these 5 unknown cylons sitting in their ressurection pools. -
is backed up by the question of how there's a dead Starbuck on the planet. We now know that Starbuck is not the final cylon, so the only explanation for her being dead on the planet, yet still alive, is that she hasn't arrived at that final conclusion yet.
I'd like to amend my Theory slightly by proposing that the non-Alliance Cylons discover the 'time warp' too, and follow Galactica back to Earth's past, where the final showdown occurs and the planet gets nuked. THis is why Starbucks crashed ship remains untouched. Because there was no one left after the battle. So yeah, they go back into Earth's past, decide to blend in and live happily ever after, but the Cylons track them down, all out war on poor suspecting earth, and then it gets nuked. -
Laura and Sharon (human and cylon) will be chasing after Six and Baltar and Herra but will be left behind as the doors shut. The metaphor is: everyone will die (humans and Cylons alike) except for the new Adam and Eve and the beginning of the next beginning that Herra will Herald in.
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that is the most retarded thing anyone can say "they better bring some action" or ratings are going to drop ? maybe a mindless fool like u will become disinterested if there arent any ships blowing each other up or people fucking..most of us that have been following the show since day one actually appreciate when there is drama and a story playing out...too many shows die out because of people like u that dont see things exploding and people fucking and u stop watching and call the episode "filler" or too "talky"....
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time travel ONLY explains kara's ship on earth in the past... it doesnt explain how she came back in a brand new viper, and the only viper in the fleet able to pick up the distress signal from, as we now know, was from kara's original viper.
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as i told the other idiot earlier... people that call episodes "filler" arent watching. what were u scanning for ? explosions ? space ships ? robots ? its not surprising u found it boring...god forbid a show present a drama without spaceships and robots blowing each other up...they ARE NOT makin it up as they go...u just think youre smarter than u actually are....please dont breed ,EVER !!
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It's not. RDM has repeatedly stated he wanted to stay away from TT. On the other hand, there WILL be a supernatural God/Gods/Lords of Kobol facet to the end of the show. You're talking about a series that focuses on the space between life and death, fate, destiny, and has a main character who has a personal self-proclaimed "Angel of God" who guides him through his day to day life. No time travel, but the spiritual weirdness is about to get kicked into high gear.
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Jan 17, 2009 5:42:18 PM CST
It doesn't make me stupid to want a smart realistic sci-fi show
by bullet3
I'm sorry, but I prefer my science-fiction to be about characters and ideas, not religous prophecies, visions, having half the cast arbitrarily redefined as machines half-way through. It absolutley feels like they've been making this show up as they go(which they have), and the story is so convoluted at this point that it makes fucking "lost" seem plausible.
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SPOILERS 1. Total WTF moment with Dee. I was left slack jawed and goggled eyed. Very nicely done. 2. I'm assuming she's really dead. On the other hand, "if there's a gun on the wall in Act 1, expect it to be used in Act 3." It wouldn't surprise me at all if a few episodes later, Apollo looks through the box marked "Personal Effects," compares Dee's family photos with the locket she found on the beach and says "hey, wait a minute...." And then there's the literal translation of her name. But I think she's dead. 3. At first I was assuming it's Earth, as in, this Earth. Still, it's odd that we didn't see anything to confirm that, in the present or in the flashbacks. The fact that we don't see recognizable continents or the equivalent of a buried Statue of Liberty has to be deliberate, as we saw Earth's continents at the end of S3, and that lack of confirmation makes it ambiguous. We don't see the Moon or hear details on the rest of the system. So although it's "the Earth" that Starbuck's viper reached, it's probably not this Earth, which we definitely saw in the final moments of S3. Don't really see where that's going.
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...and now is the time to do it. The mystical angle is always what made this a second rate sci-fi show to me. But they can still explain it all away by making Roslin, Baltar and Starbuck Cylons. That would explain their "visions" and do away with the stupid numerological element of only having 12 models. Make it so the Caprica Cylons chose to view 12 models as significant because that's all they've ever known about. I'm assuming that Earth had far more models on it. It's not too late for them to get back to sci-fi (or I suppose it is since it's already been written I guess).
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just want to remind you guys that I really meant it about Ellen – the proof's in the archives!
"final tigh-lon
by altoandando Apr 13th, 2008
06:44:52 PM
witheringly good episode.
folks, the last cylon is ellen. look at how tigh is looking at her, and lee's body language as well.
the emperious cylon queen is Ellen Tigh folks. mark my words."
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It wasn't the jacks that freaked her out. She picked up the Admiral's father old watch from the ground... Watch her reaction. She looks at it and she pauses -- did she see an Adama inscription? did she recognize it as her husband's memento from his trial days? This artifact cannot be there, in her hand, from this spot, among the ruins... It's too much. Her brain went boom. Later, it was all denial baby!
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IMHO the mystical prophesy elements may not be mystical at all, but could be super-advanced ancient Cylon technology. For example, remember the 3,000 year old space beacon from Season 3?
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It would be like seeing Pamela Anderson as VP of the US
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Here's what i find funny--nobody can argue that this episode gave us some big answers. nobody can also argue that this episode opened up new questions. To me, this is what great tv does...and a show like bsg which has set the bar very high for itself, needed to come up big in this department for the launch of the beginning of the end...which it did. But what i find hilarious is that the people who think they're so smart for finding inconsistencies fail to realize that there are NINE EPISODES LEFT...then its done, and will finish with the appropriate amount of time the showrunners needed to see their vision through. To these people, i say this: come back here after the show is over with your damn inconsistencies which you think you're so smart for finding. Until then, speculate, talk about what you liked, talk about smaller things you didn't like, but to come out and think this show doesn't know what its doing just because the answers we got here produce more questions--the way a good show should, is just a waste of your time and a waste of those people's time who read and respond to you.
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it's pretty easy to figure out who the cylon god is--it has to be CC Sabathia. no human could possibly pitch the way he does, nor could a run of the mill cylon. Seriously, though, i think alot of people need to brace themselves for the end of this show--there will definately be loose ends, and a few things that don't quite make sense when you're looking at a show under the microscope. i'm going to savor all the answers they give me, but i'm not going to think too much about what the show doesn't answer. this has been quite a ride, and even if the end sucks, its still been quite a ride. i have loved speculating about what the answers to these questions we've had are. they can't take that away from me. like a good book--its the journey, not the destination. a huge plot twist at the very climax of a story can often make a sub-par book or movie very good, but if you have fantastic first, second, and three.5 acts, and the ending isn't what you hoped, you can still feel like your time was well spent and love the story.
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Wow, Slkboxrman -- it's been quite a while since I was dissed by someone as clearly subliterate as you, so you might want to get a much smarter friend (if you have one) to help translate my words to you. (Make sure they bring their "English to Dumbass" dictionary over; it'll help.) The 4th season episodes were "filler" because very little happened that moved the plot forward in a meaningful or interesting way. This concept is what John Gardner in his book "The Art of Fiction" called "profluence" -- the notion that everything in a work of fiction should propel the story forward, with a sense of momentum, and that events have meaning and aren't just there as "atmosphere." As I stated before (but you apparently missed it, because you were too busy huffing paint fumes out of a bag), I liked BSG when it first started, but Ron Moore -- who has admitted to not having a clear idea of where the plot was going as these seasons have worn on -- has pulled the same schtick over and over again, and it's getting old and tiresome. He's backed himself into a dramatic corner with his dark, angst-ridden yet now dull-as-dishwater drama, and the only thing he has left to keep people interested is to simply kill off his characters -- which is making me yawn, since I quit caring about them by the end of the 3rd season. (Now, as for your suggestion that I "never breed," don't worry your misshapen little head -- I had a vasectomy back in 1999, so I'm cool there. Then again, unlike you, I *am* having sex with real women instead of Madame Palm and Her Five Daughters, so I'm superior to you in that regard as well.) Finally, as for your comment that "I'm not as smart as I think I am," that's pretty funny, coming from a guy who apparently had a helper monkey type his response to me on this webboard. Your flailing, noodle-armed protestations to the contrary, I'm definitely smarter than you, who doesn't understand A.) basic punctuation or capitalization, B.) how to use ellipses properly, and C.) that Ron Moore literally said in interviews that "they're making it up as they go along." So, little Talkbacker, you might consider educating yourself, learning how to read, and definitely learning how to write proper English, before you try to insult me or anyone else on AICN again. As the saying goes, plowboys shouldn't pull on six-guns... and kid, you're definitely a plowboy, if not the actual ox pulling the plow itself.
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(Nelson--this may be too long for the average person here, but this is for you, not everyone else) Ok, i went back and read Slkboxrman's posts and i'll agree with you on one thing--they ARE making it up as they go along...i'm sure he had ideas for some of the bigger questions already worked out, though. But here's where i feel the need to step in--first, don't spend so much of your arugment trying to prove someone's stupid because of grammatical errors in their posts. this is a little message board, and most of us just write as we think and leave out words, have run on sentances, miss punctuation, all sorts of things. attack the guy's arugment, not his sentance structure. Also, don't try to name drop books and authors in order to show how literate you are. Ok, you reference Gardner's 'Art of Fiction'...am i supposed to be impressed??? that's required reading in most halfway decent undergraduate creative writing classes. You're like the douche from good will hunting. When you try to use that type of stuff for validation you open up for attack, and its lose lose for you...you don't come across as intelligent for citing undergraduate required reading, but if you were to be obscure, you come off as pretentious. And you're dead wrong in your interpretation of Gardner's material--i'll just quote you here: "profluence" -- the notion that everything in a work of fiction should propel the story forward, with a sense of momentum, and that events have meaning and aren't just there as "atmosphere." Don't lecture me on profluence, especially when you don't have a solid grasp on what Gardner means in that quote. You see, Battlestar isn't like most of smallville's self contained episodes with a monster of the week and no ongoing storyline. But it isn't the type of show that is completely driven by the overall story arc. that's what makes the show so great, they throw in self contained stories every now and then. Off the top of my head, there is th 'black market' 'hilo-centric vaccine' 'workers union strike' and 'final cut' episodes that stand by themselves. You think that because they don't revolve around the arc, they don't progress the story. Well, Gardner would agree with me if i were to say that those episodes DO 'propel the story' and the episodes DO 'have meaning' They may not progress the search for earth storyline, or they may not unlock the cylon and religious mysteries, but they serve a very important purpose--they progress the arcs of the CHARACTERS. They do propel the story, because these episodes which purposefully slow down the overall momentum allows the viewer to take a step back from the story arc and look more closely at the situations of the other 40,000 humans. Even though you don't want too much of it, atmosphere, when used sparingly and effectively (as bsg does) broadens the entire scope of the show, and paints a much wider picture of what this show is about. This is why Moore is so smart, and why the show is so smart--they don't ignore issues that aren't directly related to the main characters or the big arc. This gives the show depth, and makes us look at what the average person in this universe they've created is going through. It also allows Moore to deconstruct and critique REAL ISSUES that we find in the REAL WORLD. That's whats so great about bsg--they have created a very human and realistic universe. I'm tired and will end this now, but i'll be glad to debate after i'm done with slumdog millionaire.
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Nelson, i forgot a major point: "profluence: everything in a work of fiction should propel the story forward," The thing is, Gardner was not writing about this concept as it should appeal to an ENTIRE RUN of a television show. He's talking about a WORK OF FICTION--1 work. The episodes that step back from the overall story arc are, in themselves A SINGULAR WORK OF FICTION. These self contained episodes have a beginning, middle and end, and they propel the story of THAT ONE EPISODE with its own momentum from its beginning to end. There is totally, without question, profluence in these SINGLE WORKS OF FICTION. can i make it any clearer?
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When Tigh was talking to Ellen in ruins as they were about to die, I could hear the old alert sirens from the original BSG! nice work good nod to the past I think
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Adama saw that coming. He would have offed himself if Col. Tigh hadn't made him "soldier up." Adama's speech to the fleet at the end was an attempt at averting more Dualla incidents.
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but may have been the CREATORS of the tech. They seemed to have all known each other--Anders was told that he "sang that song for all" of them.If they created the tech, it might have been in place for EVERYONE there.Ellen may not have been referring only to herself and Tigh, but the more general we: "WE will be reborn, together..."
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Jan 18, 2009 12:01:04 AM CST
If everyone in the fleet is "reborn" after having died there
by chromedome
they could all be experiencing some sort of subconscious memory of their deaths--not as vivid as the Four, but still influencing their mood and triggering depression, thoughts of suicide, etc.
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The time warp works like this: Maybe they are not the future looking at the past. Maybe they are the past looking at the future. Then I can retain some hope that at some point. Kara Thrace will die and stay dead, and her corpse is evidence of this. I feel so much better now. I HATE that character.
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...seems to be the Earth Cylon's version of "resurrection."Athena stated that the Earth centurion head was a different model, so I presume the Cylon bones were too. In other words, if the current models have a resurrection hub/facility, the old Earth Cylons must have a rebirth facility - possibly close to where the Galactica is headed.Just a thought.
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absolutely fantastic interpretation of ellen's words...i had never thought of it that way--she could have meant EVERYONE would be together again...i hope that's true, because it'd be damn good misleading writing if it were.
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There's obviously a rebirth hub out there somewhere and perhaps there's other versions of the final 5 running around. The plot thickens.
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what?
Clylons don't dig Black OR Brown pussy? -
Just because Tigh says "you're the fifth" means NOTHING - he might as well have said "Ellen, you're a giraffe" and been more correct.And as to that hint as resurrection that Ellen made to Tigh before their death-by-nuke a few thousand years ago ... that comment in no way makes her a Cylon. Many cultures - right here, right now - believe in the resurrection of the conscious soul upon death, and a return to life as a reborn human being. Ellen's comment doesn't have to have any extraordinary, Cylon-ish meaning whatsoever.THAT IS ALL.
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"Profluence" as you have defined it here is a matter of arbitrary stylistic choice - but let's say that we all stipulated that "profluence" is important in fiction. There would be one necessary [and obvious] exception to the "profluence is good" rule: the storytelling of mysteries, particularly mysteries where the audience is supposed to learn the answer to the mystery at approximately the same pace as the protagonists, and/or part of the enjoyment of the story is derived from puzzling the answers out. That kind of storytelling requires large amounts of misdirection, narrative blind alleys, etc. Mystery storytelling in a genre context requires atmosphere. Im not saying that all the BSG "filler" has been this sort of material, but a lot of it has been, particularly in the 4th season. It doesn't excuse the boxing episode, of course, but it at least demonstrates that you can't sum up all criticism in the single word "profluence".
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Dude. She says "everything's in place. We'll be reborn."
RDM flat out states that she's the fifth, and says when they came up with the idea during the third season.
You may not like it, but she's the fifth Cylon. That doesn't EXCLUDE others from being Cylons, like Kara after she died.... but it does mean that Tigh, Ellen, Anders, Tori and Tyrol are the only Cylons from this planet 2000 years ago.
THAT IS ALL. -
I didn't see your post about your dad until just now. Really sorry. My mom died from breast cancer so I'm right there with you.
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(1) It's fiction. It has to get "made up as it goes along" at some point. Do you think the authors of every book you read know how it's going to end when they start writing? (2) The one thing they've admitted to "making up as they go along" is the identity of the Final Five and, since the five didn't know their own identity and neither did anyone else, it really doesn't matter that they decided it late in the series. It's not like there would have been any hints. I'm guessing they made the decision NOT to identify them early on in the series so they could see which characters worked. It's impossible to plan a 4 season television series out ahead of time because you discover what (and who) connects with the audience as it goes along. There's always the possibility you'll have to drop elements that aren't working.
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I'm not very into this show, and in fact have quit watching outright twice, but I liked this episode. Now I may even watch the 9 remaining episodes (that's the number, right?).
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As Colonel Tigh is wading into the ocean in the grips of his flashback, what appears to be remnants of the base of the Statue Of Liberty are visible off to the right.
This corresponds to the Brooklyn Bridge remnants glimpsed at the close of the previous episode. The landing party was in Manhattan; it was "our" Earth. -
I pretty much agree with everything your saying. But as this season progresses, you will see that there where in fact clues as to the identity of the final five. (Except Tori.)
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...interesting episode. Heck of a return after such a stupidly long wait.Dualla. Dee. What have you done??? I was totally blindsided by that one. SHOCKED. In fact, that hit me harder than the "Ellen Tigh Is The Fifth Cylon" reveal (which, I thought, was strangely low-key).So much for my "Tom Zarek Theory". However, judging by the preview for next week's episode, it looks like my boy, Zarek, is going to be stepping up to the plate. I get the distinct feeling that RDM & Co. are now kicking it into high-gear.
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...more and more I feel that he is (perhaps) the best character on the show. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Baltar and I LOVE Adama. But the one character who continues to suprise me is Colonel Saul Muthafrakkin' Tigh. I love how his tenacity shines through when the chips are down. The tough-love medicine that he gave Adama after Dee's death was great stuff.From the alchoholic EXO who feared real responsibility...to the leader of the Resistance on New Caprica...to a member of the Final Five. He seems to be one of the few (barely) keeping it together while everyone else starting to crack.Gotta love that tough, old bastard!
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don't rule out time travel. they've been time traveling since the first episode--when they jump they're going faster than the speed of light, so, time travel could play a role.
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Saul Tigh is certainly giving the famous tough guys of all time like Lee Marvin in THE DIRTY DOZEN or Charles Bronson a serious run for their money.Tarantino and Stallone better be taking notes. Col. Tigh is what "tough guy" looks like.
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What an episode! And poor Dee. The acting in this epiospde was immense. Cant wait to see what happens next! Yay BSG :)
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good points...and to be honest, i should apologize for one thing--before i responded to Nelson, i went and read the posts of the guy he was originally responding to. i may have read those posts too quickly, but i thought the main issue being debated was the self-contained episodes that do little to progress the overall arc. now i realize the main criticism at hand was about season 4 being mediocre. i would agree that the first ten episodes do not live up to the quality of what came before, and we agree, fluffyunbound, that the issue of profluence isn't the sole and major problem with those episodes, it applies, but not completely. As for the boxing episode, which i'll admit was dull, still progressed the storyline, with the flashbacks, so it's not a completely pointless episode. if i had to critique it, i would say that battlestar strayed too far off what they do best, and devoted an episode to what it does not do well--romance. i love the fact that bsg doesn't have many romantic arcs... adama/roslin's "romantic" ongoing storyline is handled masterfully. i like how they did the dee / adama storyline--they didn't show ANY of the romantic moments that led to their marraige, they just expect us to fill in the blanks ourselves, and that's the way a show like bsg should do it.
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wow... that is fucking retarded. an uninteresting side-character that got killed off ages ago is the final cylon? i loved this episode, but i'm hugely disappointed. i was hoping it would be someone HUGE and unexpected, not someone no one ever gave a shit about in the first place.
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none of that shit is going to last 2000 years of no intervention by mankind - it's a nice little SciFi device (like in Planet of the Apes) but but there won't be much more that some stonework left after a couple hundred years...
ever visited Rome or Athens, or even Cairo for that matter?
the stones are all that will be left... -
have you been paying attention? no one knew who the final five were until d'anna saw their faces. duh.
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firefly was frivolous, fun, and adventurous. in other words, the opposite side of the spectrum as BSG. comparing the two is like comparing raiders of the lost ark to schindler's list, because they both take place during WW2.
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way to be the voice of reason alucardvsdracula... i think i speak for alot of people when i say that no one wants the tired and redundant debate about firefly/bsg. They're completely different types of shows. Also, if you say battlestar has gotten worse, and its best days are behind us, you can't then argue about firefly, as it only lasted 13 episodes. Remember when season 1 of bsg ended? everyone was praising it...this is before it became cool to hate on bsg. But the world will never know how good firefly would have been in its fourth season. I love whedon's work--not excited at all about dollhouse, but buffy, angel and firefly (plus the movie serenity) are some of the best shows i've seen. Whedon as a person? kinda creepy. i read that long email/message that was posted on this site a while ago, and i think the guy thinks and writes like a nut. I guess when you have time to write and revise and have a quality group of writers around you, the crazy doesn't come out.
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Things like the jacks and especially the guitar piece, seemed to survive after all that time...do you think we should just overlook that point and not think too much about its implausibility, or were these things purposefully put there for the five to find?
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Absolutely right. If you've got FTL you have a time machine. Doubt that'll turn out to be a factor, though. After four seasons it would seem like it was coming out of nowhere.
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There's probably no more to Dee's suicide than meets the eye, but I'm only assuming the jacks we see in Dee's Box of Personal Effects are in fact the same jacks she found on the beach. It's not as if we actually see her take them back to the ship.
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Yes, I both read the Weisman book and saw the documentary as well...to BSG's credit, all that appears to remain of Lady Liberty is her ankles atop the much more robust pedestal.
It's also worth noting that the Brooklyn Bridge is in fact overbuilt (by today's standards) something like four times. The span won't survive, but the towers might last a bit.
The most accurate future for NYC is shown in the movie AI...buried beneath a glacier in the next ice age, a routine geologic occurrence in that vicinity. -
Someone may already have brought this up; but does anyone think that Felix had something to do with Dee's death?? Doesn't it seem like the end of the webisodes was him walking into the room where Dee killed herself? What about the fact that he told his bf whatshisface that he had a bright future and now that guy has Dee's job? Am I seeing connections where there are none or does anyone agree?
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I don't think so. I thought it was just suicide and it fits. If you absolutely know a certain moment will be the best experience you're ever likely to have, I can see the logic in killing yourself. Throw in the fact that she knows any real relationship with Apollo, given their history and the imminent extinction of man, could never happen, and you have a pretty good argument for suicide. Always leave on a high note... Question: If there are only 12 cylons, and the planet we saw was comprised solely of cylons, who were those people in Tyrol's flashback? There was at least one discernible face (a woman)that wasn't one of the twelve and the other people we saw at the market were definitely not of the twelve. So, what gives? If this was already addressed, sorry
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Barrak Obama is the fifth cylon?!
Damn my poor TV signal.
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