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Mr. Beaks Delivers One Last David Goyer Interview For THE UNBORN!
Welcome to Part III of my exhaustive THE UNBORN coverage.
For those of you playing catch-up, this entirely unplanned series of interviews with writer-director David S. Goyer began at Comic Con, continued with an edit bay visit last October, and concluded today with a lively thirty-five minute back-and-forth at his Beverly Hills office. Had all gone according to studio plan, we would've finished this cycle back in December at the press junket, but a scheduling snafu on my end forced us to push until the day before the film's theatrical release. In a way, this was preferable. Junket interviews tend to be rushed and canned. Better to get your subject either prior to or long after the media tour; they're more relaxed, and you look less like the enemy.
Not that Goyer is ever adversarial. He's always friendly and unfailingly honest. In turn, I felt like I could speak freely about my thoughts - good and bad - on THE UNBORN. Hopefully, this translated into an interesting interview. Aside from his demonic possession flick (you've probably been inundated with ads by this point, but here's a link to the trailer), we also talked about his steampunk adventure take on THE INVISIBLE MAN, Nazis, glory holes, Batman and the importance of a leading lady with a good scream.
To ease us in to our third conversation in six months, I commended Goyer on becoming my all-time most interviewed person. As I started my recorder, he was trying to determine whether that's a good thing.
Mr. Beaks: Well, I'm obviously not avoiding you.
David Goyer: Okay. That's good.
Beaks: You know, the tough thing about having seen a chunk of the film three months ago is that I built up this expectation of how I felt the film was going to play. I was surprised that this is a very briskly paced horror film.
Goyer: You thought it would be more leisurely?
Beaks: Yeah.
Goyer: Because you'd seen most of the first act, which is more leisurely.
Beaks: Yeah, I thought it would be one of those horror movies that soaks into your bones a little.
Goyer: Do you wish it had been more leisurely?
Beaks: Honestly? Yeah. But I think that's more my kind of horror movie. Sitting in the theater with an audience, I can't deny that they were responding to the movie the way you wanted them to respond.
Goyer: It's funny. It started out longer. And it's not like the studio was pressuring me, saying, "Cut it down!" I just... we tested it and watched it with audiences, and you could sense when they wanted the rhythm to be paced up a little. I don't know. I still think the first act is fairly leisurely. Then it kind of torques up, and then the last act is just this onslaught of... whatever. I go back and forth. I like movies like THE MOTHMAN PROPHECIES - which was very leisurely and savaged at the box office. (Laughs) I ended up being fairly happy with [THE UNBORN] even though it became more fast paced. But it didn't become that much more fast paced than what you saw.
Beaks: And that's the thing. I see the first act, and then I build from there this expectation of where I think the movie is headed. It's this problem I've been having lately with footage presentations. I've seen the first twenty minutes or so of WATCHMEN twice now, and, even though I know where the story is headed, I don't know how it's going to be arranged. I'll probably have to see it twice before I can work up a fair assessment of the movie.
Goyer: But, again, I would say the experience of watching it with an audience is different. When I watched [THE UNBORN] with an audience, I could feel when they were getting restless. You always have to decide how much you're going to listen to the focus groups or not, but it's a palpable thing when you're sitting there. It's a tough call. I guess I'll take it sort of as a compliment that you wanted it more leisurely. (Pause) But I think the experience is different from you watching it in an edit bay or at home or something like that. So many times you see these longer versions that come out on DVD afterwards. At home, you can take another half-hour and it's not a big deal; you can pause the movie and go get a drink.
Beaks: This is just my experience, though. I'm not the intended audience - well, maybe a little.
Goyer: No. How old are you?
Beaks: Thirty-five.
Goyer: You're not the intended audience. I mean, I hope that you got something out of it, but the intended audience is probably eighteen to twenty-six. That's a big gap. I read some early reviews where people said, "You know, there's some interesting creepy stuff in this, but then the final act is just the usual scares." But there's also an expectation from the audience that that's what they want. There's that moment where you have to, as Guillermo [Del Toro] would say, "show your dick". It's a tough call.
Beaks: Well, when I said that I was the intended audience, I meant as a fan of horror. I go into every horror movie wanting to be scared or creeped out - and there's some creepy stuff in this. But I've also seen over 1,000 horror movies or something. If that's possible.
Goyer: It sure is possible.
Beaks: But [THE UNBORN] reminds me of the kind of horror movie I went to see when I was a teenager. It's got the jump scares and--
Goyer: I'm hoping it's a movie that will satisfy the jump scare audience, but have maybe a little bit more integrity than some of those do. Maybe it'll have a moments here or there that are a little more off-center or odd. Because, like I said, I love movies like MOTHMAN PROPHECIES and SESSION 9, which are all about atmosphere. But there was a complete jury nullification in terms of those movies. They were rejected 100%. I guess I'm hoping that I can straddle the line between the two.
Beaks: I also think those two movies were victims of studios or distributors that didn't know what to do with them.
Goyer: They were dumped, yeah.
Beaks: That's the tricky part with movies like that. But I see what you're saying in terms of added integrity. I've talked to you several times about this movie, and it's clear that you're keen to introduce more interesting elements like heterochromia or Nazis experimenting on twins. Films like this typically don't have that kind of intelligence behind them. They're usually running from the same playbook. So you've at least tried to get people thinking about things more profound than a guy with a big butcher knife.
Goyer: I hope so. To a certain extent, there may have been more of that that we cut out. There were longer scenes with Gary Oldman and longer scenes with the Jane Alexander character that sort of spoke to those elements. I find that interesting, but it seemed at a certain point that the audience was like, "Okay, I like that up to here, and then we've heard enough. We don't need more Kabbalah stuff."
Beaks: That's another thing about horror films. There are two ways to do it. On one hand, the more information you get, the creepier the film gets. On the other, the more inexplicable things are, the more you don't know... that fucks you up.
Goyer: It's a hard line to walk to know how much to explain and how much [to leave out]. There are a few moments in the movie that I wanted to explain less, and the studio was pressing me to explain more; I felt that the more you explain, the more you demystify. To a certain extent, they weren't wrong. You go to some of these focus groups and some of them want more. So you give them more, and then they say it's confusing or they didn't want the information. It's interesting. There were moments during the preview process of this movie that I did listen to the audience, and there were definitely moments where I didn't - where I just went with my gut.
Beaks: Did you get any resistance with regards to the Nazi element?
Goyer: Bizarrely, no. None. None from the test audiences and none from the studio. I thought we would, and we didn't.
Beaks: That's strange. Then again, there's something weird going on because there are a lot of--
Goyer: Nazi movies. I know. There's DEFIANCE, there's THE READER, there's VALKYRIE.
Beaks: i have no idea where that came from.
Goyer: It's just one of those things. Shaun [Cassidy] was in here earlier*, and he had this show a few years back called INVASION. It came out the same year I had a show on CBS called THRESHOLD and NBC had a show called SURFACE. One year, three major networks had shows about alien invasions. It's just this zeitgeist film. Like THE ILLUSIONIST and THE PRESTIGE coming out within a month of each other.
Beaks: I guess.
Goyer: But no push-back on the Nazi thing. None. Every once in a while, you do a preview screening, and out of 400 people, one or two people say they're offended. Like a right-to-life person would say they're offended by [THE UNBORN] because "you're advocating abortion". You'd have these strange, anomalous reactions.
Beaks: What about the shooting of the concentration camp scenes? I always wonder how filmmakers cope with creating such an upsetting environment. Does it get to you at some point?
Goyer: We tried to make it as historically accurate as we could. We weren't doing a full Holocaust film - and they're not speaking, so I think that makes it more abstract. It bothered me, but it's also weird because you have 200 crew members walking around. We also had EPK that day. And we had to film all of that in one day. I would say that on a typical movie we would average maybe twenty-seven setups a day, maybe a little more. But on that particular day - and we had child actors, and you can only shoot with them for, like, six hours - we shot fifty-two setups. That's an insane amount.
(Pause) By including those things, I was wondering whether I was trivializing [the Holocaust] or not. Hopefully, because the whole movie isn't about that, we're not. But I did think about it.
Beaks: Well, to a degree you are exploiting it. But it's not like you're making ILSA.
Goyer: Exactly. I guess we are exploiting it by the mere fact that we talk about it, but... the character of Sofi is Hungarian and my wife is Hungarian. And my wife's grandmother was a Holocaust survivor who was Hungarian. And the woman who taught Jane Alexander the accent was a Hungarian Holocaust survivor. So it's not like I was some Catholic guy deciding to co-opt the subject. I had relatives who died in the Holocaust as well. And there are certainly many books that have delved into horror and linked whatever monster or ghost story they were telling to the Holocaust. That's been done much more in books than in film.
Beaks: Very true. Moving on to your lead Odette Yustman. I read an interview recently, and was amused that, when you auditioned her, you had her scream. I like that this is still a requirement in the horror film audition process.
Goyer: Well, I wasn't going by some rule book. It wasn't so much that I wanted to make sure she had a good scream; I wanted to know that she would be prepared on a film set to go to a raw, unhinged place. If she couldn't do it in the audition - and we saw hundreds of women, and would ask them all to do that - then I would say, "Fuck it, I don't think she has what it takes to go to the places we need to take her for this movie." But she went there. And it was disturbing when she did it.
Beaks: That's cool. It's just that I have visions of John Travolta auditioning screams when I think of that.
Goyer: I know. [BLOW OUT] is one of my favorite De Palma films.
Beaks: It's my absolute favorite. But that idea of auditioning these girls who are, in many respects, factory made. I've heard Odette compared to Megan Fox--
Goyer: I don't think she looks like Megan Fox. I think she's a little more ethnic. Odette is obviously really beautiful, but I think she's also a talented young actress. Maybe you felt differently, but I was really happy with her.
Beaks: No, she was fine. Oddly enough, I think I really started to like her when the doctor tells her that they're going to have to insert the... (searching for the word)
Goyer: Speculum?
Beaks: Yes. Insert the speculum into her eye. Her reaction was adorable.
Goyer: It was a real reaction. Men and women seemed to like Odette equally. The women liked her because she was approachable. I like her. I think she's got a good future ahead of her.
(For some reason, I went off on a tangent about auditioning CW ingenues. Not a very interesting topic of conversation. This, however, is.)
Beaks: I want to congratulate you for having the first suspense beat to ever be constructed around a glory hole.
Goyer: (Smiles) Well, it's true.
Beaks: That's groundbreaking stuff, man.
Goyer: Somebody said that was unintentionally funny. And I was like, "No, that's intentionally funny."
Beaks: After the screening, someone was saying, "How could he do that? Did he know what he was doing?" And I said, "Um, I think he did that on purpose."
Goyer: That was totally on purpose!
Beaks: I was like, "I think he knows."
Goyer: No shit! I just thought that was funny. And in most cases, the audience seems to respond how I want them to respond.
Beaks: And then to have those little beetles pouring out. Where did that come from?
Goyer: I was out in my backyard and I found a potato bug. My dog was playing with it and I'd never seen one before. They're also called Jerusalem Crickets. I thought it was nasty, so I went online, found out what it was and said, "We should put that in the movie." We had to hire these entomology students in New Mexico to find them because they're seasonal. We got about 500 of them and then the rest were CG.
Beaks: Actually, I was more interested as to how you thought of them in conjunction with a glory hole.
Goyer: Why the glory hole? Because it's sexual. There's also the block she wears in her mouth when they do the exorcism; I think that's very sexual as well. A lot of times, good horror will connect to that. It's playing on a convention of if you hear a creepy sound are you going to move toward it and look. There's obviously titters in the theater because some people think, "Oh, is a cock going to come out of [the glory hole]?" And what comes out of there isn't what you expect. So I think the scene starts out creepy; then, as you start to focus on the glory hole, people start to titter and it's funny. But then what I hope happens is that it gets weird and fucked up; I hope it destabilizes people, and that they don't know whether to be freaked out or laugh.
I tried to do a couple of scenes like that in the movie. I like the scene where the kid gets hit by the car. That's a funny scene. You laugh, but then it's kind of fucked up afterwards. I like mixing the two intensities.
Beaks: There's something very Wes Craven about that approach.
Goyer: I'll take that.
Beaks: When you made this film, was there an expectation that it would be built for a franchise?
Goyer: I think even if there weren't a movie after this, I would've ended it the way I ended it. It's a very traditional way to end a horror film: a) the curse is continuing, and b) the whole reason it began was not quite for the reason we thought. It's like, "Oh fuck, it didn't really want her; what it wanted was inside of her!" Could there be another movie? Of course. And I don't think it would be a cheat to do another movie. But if there weren't another movie, I'd be fine with it ending like it ends.
Beaks: Would you personally want to write another movie?
Goyer: I have some interesting thoughts for what you could do in another movie. There are sequels that are welcome and sequels that aren't welcome; it depends on whether audiences like it or not. Even if it does well at the box office, that doesn't mean there's a love for it. It depends. Would I do a sequel to DARK CITY? No. Even if DARK CITY would've made $100 million, I wouldn't have done a sequel. Alex [Proyas] might've, but I wouldn't have. Would I do a sequel to [THE UNBORN]? Under the right circumstances, possibly. There were some questions that I wanted to get into. This whole curse didn't start in the Holocaust; it started way before that. So I'd be interested in going way back and exploring what started it. I'm also interested in exploring what caused her mother to commit suicide, so I'd be willing to go back and start a movie with Carla Gugino [who plays the mother in flashback] for about ten or twenty minutes and move forward from there.
Beaks: I can always do with more Carla Gugino.
Goyer: She's lovely. She's a sweetheart.
Beaks: Speaking of franchises, the way you've described your steampunk take on THE INVISIBLE MAN, that sounds like it's built for a series.
(Here's where Goyer gets up and retrieves some early artwork for his film. I promised not to describe it, so I'll just say that Jamie Rama's illustrations were colorful and kickass.)
Beaks: So this is a big period adventure.
Goyer: It's meant to be big. We'll see.
Beaks: When I included your comments in our last interview, some of the talk backers approved, and some were like, "Why the hell can't you just make a fucking horror movie?"
Goyer: I saw some of that, too. We all look at the talkback stuff. I don't know why I can't just make a horror film; I just had this idea! (Laughs) Sometimes in these talkbacks or message boards, people will say, "Oh, Hollywood just does "x" or "y". Or they'll say, "Those Hollywood bastards!" Most of the time it's not some Hollywood cabal that says, "We've got this marketing research, and we've decided that this is what we'll do." Once in a while a movie gets made because of that, but that's not how movies are mounted most of the time.
Look, I'm not going to sit there and do a movie based on what the talkbackers think are cool; I'm going to do something based on what I think is cool. So if people want to see it, hopefully they will.
Beaks: Someone should throw $20 million at a movie based on what the talkbackers think is cool. It'd probably be a disaster, but...
Goyer: Or it might be great! Who knows?
Beaks: Well, I don't want to keep you any longer...
Goyer: Anything else I can help you with?
Beaks: Well, let's do the obligatory you-can't-tell-me-anything-about-Batman thing.
Goyer: I cannot--
Beaks: I know. But I went to that reception for THE DARK KNIGHT last month.
Goyer: That mixer?
Beaks: Yeah. And I finally got to talk to Chris and Jonathan. I chatted to Chris for a little bit, but actually got to talk to Jonathan for a good long while. Sadly, eighty or ninety percent of what we talked about was off-the-record, but it did bear out what you'd been saying: they're going to take their time.
Goyer: Warner Bros. would love Chris to do it. Everybody would love Chris to do it.
Beaks: But there's no deal in place.
Goyer: There's no deal in place. And Chris won't do a deal until he's satisfied that there is a story worth continuing. He doesn't want to make... I don't think there's ever been a good third movie. And I say that having made one. I like THE EXORCIST III in a way.
Beaks: I think it's a very effective movie. I mean, you can see the on-set turmoil on the screen. The tone's all over the place.
Goyer: Yeah, I kind of like that movie. But it wasn't a successful film. And Chris doesn't want to come from the heights of THE DARK KNIGHT and make something that feels like it was an unnecessary sequel - aside from box office.
Beaks: Okay, but what happens if you guys win Best Picture and a bunch of other Oscars? Will that add to the pressure?
Goyer: It's not going to be much greater than it is already. (Laughs) It just made so much money. Trust me, the pressure is insane. It is the single most important thing on Warner Bros.' agenda. There's enormous pressure. I guess there's a knock-off effect with me and Jonathan because we're the ones who Chris is looking to to "convince me that there is a third one."
Beaks: But you guys are off doing your own things now.
Goyer: As Chris said, we're musing. He just needs to be convinced that there is a story that has credibility. I was talking to him the other day, and I said, "It's at least a movie that the audience clearly wants." And he said, "I agree, but 'wanting' and 'getting it'... that doesn't mean it'll be a great movie." And if it's not a great movie, then to spend three years on it is kind of heartbreaking.
Beaks: All you have to do is get Eddie Murphy, and you guys are set!
Goyer: Or Cher. Or Shia LaBeouf.
THE UNBORN opens nationwide on January 9th. Thanks to Mr. Goyer for taking the time once again. He's a mensch.
*He might be joining Goyer's new show FAST FORWARD in some behind-the-camera capacity.
(Pause) By including those things, I was wondering whether I was trivializing [the Holocaust] or not. Hopefully, because the whole movie isn't about that, we're not. But I did think about it.
Beaks: I want to congratulate you for having the first suspense beat to ever be constructed around a glory hole.
I tried to do a couple of scenes like that in the movie. I like the scene where the kid gets hit by the car. That's a funny scene. You laugh, but then it's kind of fucked up afterwards. I like mixing the two intensities.
(Here's where Goyer gets up and retrieves some early artwork for his film. I promised not to describe it, so I'll just say that Jamie Rama's illustrations were colorful and kickass.)
Beaks: So this is a big period adventure.
Look, I'm not going to sit there and do a movie based on what the talkbackers think are cool; I'm going to do something based on what I think is cool. So if people want to see it, hopefully they will.
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Ya should have.
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it's not like the interview wasnt long already.
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Thank God for Joshua Rothkopf of Time Out New York!
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You should've taken that boy to task for BLADE: TRINITY. Ther'es no fucking excuse to go from the heights of DARK CITY - a stone-cold fucking CLASSIC - to BLADE: TRINITY, or as I like to call it, GOYER & REYNOLDS: A LOVE STORY.
I'm sure Goyer's a nice guy and all, but FUUUUUUUUCK... the guy canNOT direct. -
..."I don't make what talkbackers think is cool, I do what I THINK is cool" shit...
Guillermo Del Toro IS a fanboy, and it fucking shows. Which is why BLADE II is an awesome sequel in every respect, and BLADE: TRINITY sucks donkey vampire balls. When it ain't sucking Ryan Reynolds' balls, anyway. Christ, Goyer, get a fuckin' room already... -
...but it sure smells good!
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I'll go with The Bourne Ultimatum. Beyond that, it does get a little tricky.
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I thought I was the only one. I really did.
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Cher and Shia! he does pay attention to the ridiculous rumors...
even if this is a pretty standard horror movie, with a couple quirks, I think it'll at least be a bit smarter than the average, and hey, that's enough for me to give it a shot. -
Blade Trinity was one of the worst comic book/Wesley Snipes films I have ever seen, and that is saying something. I bet Unborn is a piece of shit as well.
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Maybe Ocean's 13 at a push. And yeah Andry Travis is right when he says Bourne 3 but after that....I'm stumped? Can anyone think of a decent part 3?
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RETURN OF THE JEDI. Yes, I know there are Ewoks. Didn't detract from all the Jabba's palace stuff, the Rancor, the Speeder Bike chase, the space battle at the end...
Hell, I'll even take the Ewoks over shit like battle-droids-vs-clones-cos-the-director-is-a-pussy and fucking Gungans. GUNGANS! Aw HELL naw.
Also RETURN OF THE KING holds up, and let's not forget NINJA III: THE DOMINATION, starring Lucinda dickey and Sho Kosugi, which is without a doubt the greatest threequel EVER MADE. FACT!!! -
Jan 08, 2009 10:32:11 PM CST
3rd film will of course happen, no question but what? what?
by stormwatcher
Catwoman makes sense and so does the Riddler but instead do you go the route of the first and focus less on the enemy and more back on Bats? Tough, tough, though
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So sue me. I'd have re-edited the third act, cutting between the Neo-and-Trinity-go-to-Machine City story, the Gunbots-vs-Sentinels-at-Zion story, and the Morpheus-and-Niobe-head-back-to-Zion stories in the same way RETURN OF THE JEDI cut between the space battle, the battle between Luke and Vader, and the Endor shield generator assault. Other than that, I fucking loved ALL the Matrix movies - yep, even the Animatrix - and I don't have to apologise to you bitches for that. I do not.
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I had completely forgotten about LOTR and as for Star Wars - well Jedi goes without saying doesn't it?, but then again aren't we supposed to think of that as part 6 now instead?
You're right about that space battle tho spud, get's my heart pounding every time I see it - which is quite often lol -
Though what I'd REALLY like to see is a movie of Grant Morrison's ARKHAM ASYLUM. Kind of hard now, as Ledger's Joker would be VERY hard to replace, but daaaaaamn would that be awesome...
I'd also like to see a movie based on Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean's BLACK ORCHID graphic novel, right now, please. -
I will NEVER bow the knee to Darth Gizzard and his LFL Empire and call JEDI number 6! There are NO prequels!!! In my fevered imagination, Vader pre-STAR WARS was ALWAYS a badass, and that whiny bitch Hayden Plank-ensen never existed...
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For me that movie will alwayd be over shadowed by the potential awesomeness of what the Matrix 2 and 3 could have been.
I thought we would have Neo teach everybody how to bend the rules of the matrix and then have two movies of humans vs agents set againt a Rage Against The Machine soundtrack.
Sigh....It still makes me sad. The imagery is wicked tho. -
Amen
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And say that I enjoyed X-MEN 3 more than the other two? Less boring old men yawning at each other, more large-scale mutie wars. I liked it...
HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN. Still my favourite of the Harry Potter movies, and a threequel!
ELM STREET 3: DREAM WARRIORS. Second best movie in the whole series, after the first. -
In fairness, the only other way to make the third Matrix movie cool would have been to go your way with it. An entire Matrix full of woken humans versus an infinite army of Smiths...
Wow. Would have been as great as the Messiah complex ending we got. Like it... -
Got to agree with Beaks on that one - you could see two movies fighting for domination on there: one a thoughtful humanist movie about faith and the nature of evil, the other a special-effects driven jump-scare fest that tried to copy the first movie with better effects. The result? Everybody shat themselves when the nurse jumped out with the head-lopping shears - greatest jump scare EVER in my book, no question - but I did love the George Scott monologue when he's frying on the ceiling of the cell containing the possessed Jason Miller - "Yes, I believe in filth! I believe in pestilence, I believe in greed, I believe in sin, GOD I BELIEVE!!!". George C Scott is a force of nature in that movie, and it's still a very powerful horror that has no idea what it want's to be. It's a VERY interesting failure.
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If only to see Gary Oldman doing an Exorcism!
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originally that movie was not connected to blatty's exorcist. it was an adaptation of the blatty novel called "legion". the studio got blatty onboard to direct the movie version of legion and then the studio decided it wanted to turn it into a third exorcist film and forced blatty to tie it in. lol. thats why it feels like 2 seperate films.
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you were harsher on Goyer than any talkbacker would be. I mean it's not like he's McG. And for whatever snobby uppity thing you think, there's a reason Megan Fox is on her way to becoming a bone fide huge fucking movie star and Odette Yustman might just be, but like, say, the cast of Gossip Girl are not and never will be.
While it's true Blade Trinity sucks ass, it sucks ass wonderfully and hilariously. The scene between Parker Posey and Ryan Reynolds is gold, like something from a whole other movie. -
These are on par with at least one of the other 2 films of the trilogy:
LOTR
Austin Powers 3
Mission Impossible III
Bourne Ultimatum
Pirates III
SYmpathy for Lady Vengeance (if that counts) -
But if you've never read the Vern talkback for CHAOS (like I hadn't untill just now) then I really recommend that you do so. It's the funniest thing I have ever read at this site.
Vern rips on the movie, the director and the producer. This in itself is funny, but the good stuff is when the said director and producer join the talkback and try to defend their movie.
I mean, if you thought it was cool when Stallone came on here and answered our questions then you ain't seen nothing yet.
http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/24309 -
Ever here of a little known movie called Goldfinger? How about The Good, the Bad and the Ugly?
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As each film is a remake of the last (not literally but you get my drift I hope). However props to you sir for The Good, The Bad And The Ugly! Damn fine film.
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He admits Blade Trinity sucked and then he also claims that anyone over twenty five shouldn't see the Unborn. Sooooo the film was made with quick scares to get 16 year old girls and their bf's to scream. Lame. The one question I would have for Goyer is this: If she's being haunted by an Unborn child why is he wearing clothes? Did he pick this outfit out before he went on his haunting spree? Seriously stupid shit. Unborn is unwatchable.
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I'm interested in why they keep hiring those actor/models or slashies from that crappy network for every horror film that comes out nowadays.
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I CAN SHOOT THE FLEAS OFF A HORSE'S BACK AT 400 YARDS TANNEN! AND RIGHT NOW IT'S AIMED STRAIGHT AT YOUR HEAD!
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must have got it off of a dead chinese.
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One of the best Fridays ever?
I think so...
just cause of the handstand chop AND Jason gets his mask. -
Good call on THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY too. Many people like DEATH WISH 3 the best of the series, although it is the general crappiness and ludicrousness that makes it awesome. BEYOND THUNDERDOME is also seriously underrated although it's not as good as the other two, so that may disqualify it. I sure like DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE. And SHAFT IN AFRICA.
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Third and the best of those movies.
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Is a great flick. Completely underrated.
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Leprechaun 3. Lady Vengeance Return of The Jedi Return of The King Die Hard 3 Alien 3 (fuck you, I like it), Exorcist 3 Halloween 3 (In a batshit insane sort of way), 3rd movie failures are usually comic book properties. And, by the way, Oceans 13 sucked heavily.
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Clearly the man can't direct a film, but he sure as shit can write one.
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Jan 09, 2009 8:13:25 AM CST
the intended audience is probably eighteen to twenty-six.
by zom-bot.com
jeezus christ....i feel so old at thirty two and yet i know for a fact 30 to 40 is like the new 20's when it comes to geeky man boys. we still watch and buy movies, we still spend money on stupid stuff....the difference is, we are more intelligent and discriminating when we do- and we know shit when we see it.it's make for 18 to 26 because maybe they aren't quite aware of all the standard scares and historical nonsense put into this movie.
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Jan 09, 2009 8:17:47 AM CST
Odette is so hot that I can't pay attention to the films she's i
by dr sauch
I'll be there later tonight
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Yeah yeah, I know, odd numbered Star Treks and all that, but I liked it. I tend to think of II, III & IV as one single movie, and in that respect, III is a worthy second act.
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dark half, mouth of madness, jacob's ladder, probably even exorcist or any others from the list of older films that the Unborn pulls so heavily from...
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just announced sam rami is pushin morbius to the studio as his choice for upcoming villain. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
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but they'll rave about as if it was totally original. just like everyone did when Silverado came out. It was fun and all but lifted heavily from better westerns that came before it to the point of cliche. The only thing missing was the a wagon train surrounded by war-whooping "Injuns."
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is that it's no fun. I don't mean in a silly, ha-ha sort of way but in an X-files, cool investigating cryptozoology sort of way. It's a shame because a lot of work from very talented people went into the flick plus Mark Pellington is a helluva nice guy. .The mandate at the time was we're not doing a science fiction film. I was always like WTF?
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Can't really say it was much worse than the first two!
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That is, except for people who make the tragic, life-destroying mistake of getting married and having kids in their early 20s, thereby ruining their lives. But, then again, they usually get divorced by time they're 30, so, after getting over the crushing depression of realizing they have just ruined their lives, attempt, sadly, to recapture a feeling of freedom they never really had.
The lesson? Don't even think about getting married and having kids until you are AT LEAST 35 years old. Better yet, don't even think about getting married and having kids AT ALL. The former because its a bankrupt social construct that doesn't work in the real world and only serves to make people miserable. The latter because WE DONT NEED ANYMORE KIDS. There are already plenty of useless meatspawn shambling about, and making more just seems pointless. Unless, of course, you are some sadistic masochist who enjoys creating and experiencing pain, in which case, feel free to ruin your life while creating more wretched, depressed, painful lives so you can have a pet human for a few years before they morph into hormonal monsters. -
Least favourite (after 5) but still a good'un.
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ha! i am going through those stages myself now, only without the burden of children. i agree- marry in your 30's!
nothing ruins a perfectly good relationship better than marraige. if you want to live with your lover for the rest of your life, fine- but marraige breeds problems and resentments, it seems. -
Wow, only one positive review. That's epic.
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i mean i know there are alot of stuid forgiving reviewers out there. man i actually feel sorry for goyer right about now.
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Look, its so high on my list of fav films, i adore Leone, Once Upon A time in the West is brilliant for Fonda's against type bad guy and Bronson is basically Roland of Giliead incarnate and Robbards gives his best non dickhead lawyer role ever, I love all the Leone films but GBU is not a sequel of a trilogy like StarWars ect... Its a very different beast, like the 3rd batch of chili where you finally get the recipe right. Such a perfect movie. Damn its good.
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I beg to differ but that's not the point here. The point is were there any good third movies in a series. This is the third movie with Eastwood playing the same character as he did in the previous two..
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I've scrupulously avoided marriage and children, preferring to keep my freedom, whilst watching my friends slowly whither and die in loveless marriages with children. I notice my "married w/ children" friends look older, and more haggard, and more miserable by the day whilst they tell me, "man, how do you stay so young looking?" Easy. No marriage and no kids. Luckily my girlfriend agrees with me.
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Through the movie he picks up the different items of clothing he wears he in FISTFUL and MORE...
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You just for gave me a schooling. I never knew that and am now going to watch it over the weekend to see what you mean. Thanks for the info!
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With candid interviews like this, it makes me want to give the movie a chance. I posted on the other forum about how plants were doing damage control. I don't like spin. Reading something like this which sounds genuine, doesn't mean the movie is great, but I want to give it the benefit of the doubt. Also, as he said, it is aimed at 18 to 26 year old kids. They know what they are doing. Most of the talkbackers on this site are over the age of 26 and not married or have a serious relationship. Yes, there are exceptions, but as a general rule, this comment is probably true. This isn't a knock, I am immature and made peace with it.
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There's a difference between stuff like Bourne or Matrix that is one story told over several films, and something like James Bond or Indiana Jones that are just films you can watch in pretty much any order and without having seen the previous one or feeling like you need to see the next one.I think it's harder to make a film that is just a conclusion to two other films because it always just feels mispaced and disappointing since the final film in a series usually feels the most incomplete without the previous installments. If you watch the beginning or middle of a story you feel entertained, but if you just walk in for the end it feels like you missed something.The Dark Knight built on Batman Begins well, but in a way it's also a fine standalone film. Kinda like Aliens. So I predict that the next Batman will be the Alien 3 of the series, hated by most for BS petty reasons and loved by few in spite of its flaws.Oh, and Goldfinger is the best number 3 ever.
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The book was better. Especially considering it's...non-fiction.
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Jan 09, 2009 11:29:36 AM CST
Chris Nolan: you are going to direct the next Batman movie...
by leafar the lost
Lets face it, Nolan, you are going to direct the next Batman movie. You don't have a fucking choice. Stop saying that you won't commit to another Batman movie unless there is a good story. Write the fucking story yourself! Get someone else to write a fucking story that you want to direct! Jesus Fucking Christ! Are you looking for more money? Look, if you don't direct this movie your career is over!
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You called me out on that one, yeah Trek III is cool, and yes I also see it as part of one longer movie (II, III & IV)
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Scorcher III? That was by far the best of the bunch.
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is riding off the coat tails of the dark knight..yes he came up with the story outline with nolan, but he takes credit for the script which besides an outine, he had nothing to do withand hearing him comment on a third one, like he is going to have anything to do with batman 3 beyond small story ideashe's only involved the nolan series because WB insisted on nolan having an "established" writter for begins, but its so obvious now that nolan always wanted to work with his brother, goyer is too campy and his dialogue is never very wittyhe really doesn't have anything to do with TDK sucess but he thinks he does and that bugs me
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for emo high school boys who will spend friday and saturday nites dreaming about odette yustman in her underwears.
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The guy was great in it and the scene in the kitchen is slow-mo worthy.
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I really don't consider the Good, the Bad and the Ugly a sequel. I don't even really think that the Man With No Name trilogy is really even a series, it seems like marketing after the fact. Clint Eastwood DOES NOT play the same character in those movies. I think it's just a case of a director consistently making similar movies with the same star(s).
Also, Army of Darkness is a pretty good third movie. -
Anyone seen the 3-D DVD coming out soon? That and some beer will make for a fun night.
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Way more quoteworthy than the other two. Awesome movie.
LAST CRUSADE as well, of course. I was 17 that year and saw it at least five times or more on the big screen. Hazy memories of that halcyon summer back in 89 obscure any attempt at objective criticism... I just saw it at an awesome time in my life, ergo it's a fantastic movie for me.
INDY III and EVIL DEAD III. Excellent stuff. -
The first appearance of the "modern" Klingon (the first 3 minutes of Trek 1 aside), that huge breasted Klingon woman (again, setting a standard for the future), Kirk's pussy son getting killed, the destruction of the Enterprise, Sulu having a scene where he's a faaaabulous James Bond type, kickass fight scene with Kirk and Doc Brown, the first appearance of the Bird of Prey, which they would use ad nauseum in the future, nice visuals on Vulcan, including hot Vulcan servant girls or whatever they were...what's not to like? Much better than the goofball comedy that was Trek 4.So about this film...Nazis and WWII. We can't stop making movies about it. They've even creeped into our shitty horror films.
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seriously any trek fan that hates that movie is a douchebag, search for spock is exactly what the series was all about why it gets saddled into the worst of the franchise is belong mein fact the whole odd number films thing is rediculous, agreed trek one is slower, but its in no way bad and if it sucked so much then why did they even make a second one..clearly it was a sucess at the box office..5 is a bit bad i'll agree but blame that on the studio taking control from shatner as well as it coming out nextto a million other great films of summer 89 (its the same situation going on with price caspian, a great film that got lost in the shuffle of summer and everyone calls it a failure now), generations i'll admit is bad poorly handled and feels akward to watch..however insurection is a fun film and probabaly the closet TNG movie to the feeling of the series (although maybe that's why people don't love it)
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Not to mention Dan Fielding from Night court. John Laroquette in Klingon makeup - that was worth seeing. I DO NOT DESERVE TO LIVE.
The only real problem I had with III (and II as well) was the wimp who played Kirk's son.
To (mis)quote Commander Eddington from In Harms Way (With regard to David Marcus) "I'm afraid I can't accept you as Kirk's son. I think somebody got in there ahead of him.
David -"Now Just A Minute Eddington."
Eddington - "Yes???" he answers, grabbing David by the neck and twisting his head off. He walks away, satisfied that he has saved the franchise. -
I take back what I said about it possibly being good. Aside from a somewhat interesting idea, it was... horrible. Absolutely horrible.
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Yup...sucked...
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After reading this interview with Goyer, and knowing his past efforts I was cautiously optimistic that The Unborn would be a nice post-holiday surprise.
Boy was I wrong.
The film opens interestingly enough and the cuts right to two hot girls talking on the phone and all of a sudden one hears something. I've seen this a dozen times in more then a dozen films. I was almost devastated by watching the events unfold in this film in an absolutely illogical manner while we have misogynistic shots of our lead protagonist in her underwear feeling afraid.As the movie unfolds there are scary children with gloomy faces and curses on top of curses, and of course, the black friend gets it first. I am hesitant to just flippantly say "Goyer sucks" and move on. I believe David Goyer should be taken to task at delivering a movie of such pedestrian quality, especially given his repertoire of writing unique and interesting material. I take issue with his choice of a lead, not because she's beautiful, but because the choice was obvious. I take issue with the idea that he believed the film had to be paced in such a way that as information surfaced the movie jumped along so we weren't able to digest it. The Unborn is everything that is expected of these kinds of films with a couple interesting ideas, but built upon a formula that relies on the pretty girl, the scary kid, the demons after her, and the curse she is about to find out about. I've just described most of the supernatural horror thrillers that have been released in the past few years. What I was hoping for was a film in the spirit of The Exorcism of Emily Rose, a film based in reality that was truly horrifying because the cast delivered the story in such a way to make us believe. I didn't want The Unborn to be Emily Rose 2, however, I wanted Goyer to engage me as a viewer with the same dignity and respect as The Exorcism of Emily Rose did. What I saw instead was a film that pandered to the worst of our instincts and went for cheap thrills over genuine suspense and thought-provoking scares.I'm disappointed in you David Goyer, this was a paycheck film for you. -
It's absolutely staggering how many people don't understand that the reason THE EXORCIST is so fucking scary is because IT TAKES ITS TIME GETTING TO THE SCARES. You get to know the main characters inside out. Seemingly pointless scenes - like Damien visiting his sick mother - all come into their own at the end - "Why you do this to me, Dimmy?". That movie takes so long setting up the possibility of demonic possession as being real and factual by being filmed almost as a documentary (very few ostentatious camera shots, and the few we get are related to the film-within-a-film), and by treating the whole thing as cmopletely serious. Sure, THE EXORCIST has jump scares - the flaring lamp in the attic, Regan grabbing the psychiatrist by the balls etc - but they're used sparingly, so when the first REAL scare arrives - Regan with the crucifix, her mother smacked across the face - the quiet of the first half of the movie has lulled us into a false sense of security. The rest of it is just pure relentless nerve-shredding terror: every bit presented in the same verite style, purely documentary style, as if every second of it were absolutely real.
The problem with every exorcism movie since - even the better ones like EMILY ROSE - is that they ditch the verite/documentary style camera work and go all flashy because "hey, it's what the kids want, yeah?". Worst example: STIGMATA, or THE EXORCIST as MTV rock video. Then they forget that the subject matter has to be treated as absolutely real, and start throwing mad shit in there like levitating waitresses (yep, STIGMATA again), spooky silhouetted figures-that-might-be-demons (EMILY ROSE) and other random nonsense. Stealing from others should be absolutely verboten (yep, Goyer, that opening sounds suspiciously like THE RING to me) and the actual mechanics of the possession shouldn't get pyrotechnic until the end of the movie, and even then not over-the-top (EXORCIST III, with your frying-on-the-ceiling priests, that's YOU). Why is all this so hard to do?
EXORCISM OF EMILY ROSE was great precisely because (a) it loked like a documentary, and (b) because (spooky silhouetted figures aside) the actual exorcism / possession scenes were played brilliantly (Jennifer Carpenter is TERRIFYING in that movie) and for what they were: completely inconclusive. The fact that she could have been epileptic and/or mentally ill, and that the movie played it as either/or, added to that realism, and that's what made it great.
Best exorcism drama since THE EXORCIST? I enjoyed the hell out of CONSTANTINE, with its grimy, broken-down exorcism scenes, but I'd have to say the UK TV series APPARITIONS with Martin Shaw was absolutely awesome. Yep, it may be for the olds - I'm 36, and appreciate getting to know my characters without being induced to epilepsy by Tony-Scott-style editing - but it built slowly and got great towards the end. Sounds like when Goyer says he made this movie for the 18-24 year olds, he thinks they're ALL attention-deficient fast-cut-addicted thoroughly dumb-assed idiots who can't remember any other horror movies they've ever seen (otherwise they'd remember that opening from THE RING and it'd feel strangely familiar) and don't care if the story makes any sense whatsoever (because it REALLY doesn't sound as if this does).
Fuck, Goyer. Show some respect for this business you're in! You're one of the best writers we have in Hollywood - so why are you so hell-bent on being the fucking worst director?
And if ANYONE goes near remaking THE EXORCIST... A Spud will rise... -
I mean come on, he didn't really write The Dark Knight. The cheesiest stuff in Batman Begins is probably his. And he's a horrible director but at least funny about it. And yet, he's a really nice, sweet guy. Come on it's not like he's McG or something.
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I dig his taste and I'm happy to learn that there is a writer/director out there that actually likes *The Mothman Prophecies* as much as I do. I was disappointed when Goyer closed down his MySpace profile because I always wanted to ask him a couple of questions...
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See, I'm going to post this on and on for the next three years until Warner Bros. sees the logic in my wisdom. I did that regarding Ra's Al Ghul and he did show up in *Batman Begins* after all. And I want a [really] hot actress in the role. Shame Monica Bellucci will be too old by then. Then again, there's always Rhona Mitra. She might even be A- List by then. Mmmm... Rhona Mitra.
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Jan 11, 2009 1:15:47 AM CST
So it's the audiences who make bad movies, not the directors!
by brandon25
Damn it all makes sense now!
"You know, there's some interesting creepy stuff in this, but then the final act is just the usual scares." But there's also an expectation from the audience that that's what they want."
That's a long-winded way of basically saying that the movie was made as a throwaway horror release to be nothing but a loud distraction so teens can goof off in the theater between "scares." And that's what's wrong with the industry, the horror industry at least-- the practice of crafting a genuinely good horror picture. It's what happened with The Strangers, a well-made scare fest but as empty as theater rooms still playing The Unborn in a couple of weeks. -
since you're advocating FOX boycott, please stay home when cameron's avatar is out. oh, you mean you STILL want to watch that movie? but it's a FOX movie. and you already told everyone to boycott all FOX's future releases.
so which is it? boycott or no?
it's precisely movie like the unborn who needs boycotting. support good movies, boycott bad ones. who the hell cares if one big studio is stealing money from another big studio! -
George C Scott is batshit insane. And one of the best "shit your pants" moments ever(Hallway scene with the nurse)
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What a stupid film. You don't even know what the evil spirit/little kid wants. A baby? to do what? enter the kid and make him nuts like everyone else he enters? The lead girl is very cute but has bad skin. Her black friend is super horrible and super annoying. The whole film was awful, just no imagination or interest in showing something new. Goyer swears the Kabbalah Nazi shit is smart and interesting but it is just lazy and boring. Gary Oldman plays a rabbi who sits in a temple without a yarmulke on. Everything about this film was terrible.
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