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Massawyrm calls DEFIANCE a pandering mess!!
Hola all. Massawyrm here.
Conventional wisdom states that, all things being equal, the film about the Holocaust will win the Oscar. Best picture, best actor, best score, best make-up. Whatever. It’s become something of a standardized joke – and a surefire way to win an Oscar pool (especially when it comes to Best Documentary picks.) That’s not to say that many winners haven’t been deserving. Just that there tends to be a clear bias towards them. So when Holocaust-era films come out during award season, it has begun to look less like there is a desire for these films, and more like a pandering towards the Academy. And the films get joked about – often undeservedly. And yet, occasionally you run across a film that feels entirely like pandering.
Such is the case with Edward Zwick’s new film Defiance. Of course, one could argue that most of Zwick’s films feel like pandering – especially the likes of Blood Diamond, (the albeit fantastic) The Last Samurai and Courage Under Fire. Having directed the outstanding film Glory, there seemed a lot of expectations upon him revisiting the war film. And sadly he fumbles this pretty badly.
It’s not that I so much hate Defiance as much as I simply resent it. It is the perfect example of a filmmaker trying to evoke sympathy for a film’s characters while being painfully obvious about his sweeping the occasional unpleasantness under the rug. Everything in this film is half-assed, from its emotional resonance to its action sequences. It seems to have no definite adherence to any particular aspect except to highlight the suffering of the Jews. That one point is made crystal clear. Life sucked for the Jews in WWII. And it particularly sucked for these few who escaped to the woods to face exposure, sickness, starvation and near ceaseless hunting by Nazi patrols. Their story is a fascinating one and one wrought with unending peril and suffering. It’s not that I don’t believe that this merits a film – just that it is clear that Zwick was not the guy to make it.
At first while I was watching it, I was trying to figure out why it wasn’t connecting with me. It just didn’t resonate. I thought perhaps you just can’t make a Jewish Holocaust action film. Then I remembered the brilliant Verhoeven film Black Book and all of this film’s problems instantly rose to the surface like skin on a soup. This film lacked the brass balls to tell the story as it needed to be told, but instead tried to white wash the little human details that could make it interesting.
You see, the film is about a group of Jews who all flee persecution at the hands of the Nazis and find themselves cobbling together in the middle of the forest. As most of the displaced are city types, it falls upon a family of three brothers (all woodland/farmer types) to lead and organize the group to be able to survive. These are all the recognizable stars of the film who couldn’t look less related if they tried – Daniel Craig, Liev Schreiber, and Jamie Bell. (In one almost laughable scene, Daniel Craig kicks some ass and a little girl asks her mother “Is he really a Jew?” “Yes he is!” – let that percolate for a moment.) With no land to farm and no income to purchase goods, the roving band of the displaced turn to becoming bandits, robbing local farms of food to feed the huddled, freezing masses. And this is told in a very Robin Hood sort of way. Not that they don’t find it unpleasant, but it is never given the weight it clearly deserves.
In one particularly glaring scene, a farmer delivering milk to the Nazis is held up at gunpoint and mugged of his supplies. This scene stresses that Tuvia Bielski’s (Craig) rules are that they only take half and do not harm the farmer. Seems fair enough, right? It’s all out of necessity. But the farmer says something that is written off – you see, he’s tasked by the Nazis to bring a certain amount of milk every day to feed their troops or they will murder his family. He’s not a Nazi or even German. He’s from Belorussia like all the heroes of the film. He’s as much a victim as they are. But when they let him live, he returns hours later with Nazi troops in tow. One man screams how they should have killed the farmer when they had a chance and the farmer is one of the first interlopers to catch a bullet. And the rest of the sequence is a chase action sequence of fighting and running from the Nazis.
What the film blatantly ignores is that this isn’t a case of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. It’s stealing from the poor to give to the starving. These guys aren’t brave enough to jack Nazi shipments. They’re mugging poor, occupied farmers who are only still alive because they AREN’T Jewish. And they’re useful. Zwick didn’t think to include the scene in which an angry Nazi puts a gun to the Farmer’s head and dispatches his men to go to the farmer’s home and hang his family from the rafters, forcing the farmer to offer them the one thing they craved more than his milk. Jewish blood. He failed to write the line of dialog saying “We don’t want a map, show us where the Jews are.” And he sure as hell didn’t want us to feel one lick of sympathy as an angry Jew put a bullet through him for bringing the Nazis to their doorstep. Because that’s not the story he wanted to tell.
The problem ISN’T that he refuses to demonize these people in any way. Don’t for a minute think that’s the issue here. The problem is that Zwick keeps presenting us with very complicated, dark situations that he always seems to white wash in the favor of our characters. They’re not allowed to be dark and conflicted, even when there are hints that they might be. Married men take “Forest Wives” and it is treated more as a comedic angle rather than one that is both sad and all too human. They keep hinting that Tuvia might be having his way with various women at the camp, but it is never addressed, only mentioned in passing – and always in confusing manners. In one of the most human moments of the film, Jamie Bell’s Asael is confronted by the teenage girl he’s been pining for only to have her beg and plead for him to go and save her parents from a ghetto. “Please,” she begs “I’ve seen the way you look at me. I’ll do anything you want me to. Anything.” But he turns her down cold. “No. I can’t.” Guess what the next scene is.
Do you think we revisit that relationship to see if this girl really is in love with him or simply gives him the pretty wedding in the snowfall out of necessity? No. The movie simply moves on. The film is riddled with half presented relationships like this and not a single one of them gets the time or care they need to be fully explored.
Because when all is said and done, Zwick wanted to make MOSES: THIS TIME IT’S PERSONAL. It’s a half assed action film told with the Moses story framework. Ultimately the film isn’t half as gritty, pretty or epic as ANY of Zwick’s previous films – even his weaker ones. In fact it has a distinctly made for television feel with what looks to be budgetary constraints every time an action sequence gears up. Just wait until the epic final battle against three planes, 20 Nazis and a tank. It is at times goofy, deliberately pandering to the audience and noticeably uneven – and at all times lacking the emotional punch to tell a story as rich, evocative and dark as what these people really endured.
Like one of the survival techniques used in the film, it feels like Zwick watered down Verhoeven’s Black Book again and again until it was a thin broth that could feed everyone poorly rather than providing the proper nutrition to the smaller, but more distinctly ravenous audience. That this film has garnered any ‘best of’ praise this year astounds me. There are a number of incredible Holocaust films out there, a couple from this year even, but this is far from being one of them.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Massawyrm
Got something for the Wyrm? Mail it here.
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I thought it looked fun...
But honestly, what ISN'T pandering to the Academy these days? Milk? Benjamin Button? Frost/Nixon?
All of those are pandering... -
...film of this title starring Jan Michael Vincent is an absolute blast. Just sayin...
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Zwick specialises in sanitised, bland filmmaking.
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Dec 23, 2008 11:08:41 AM CST
thanks for omitting the Naliboki massacre....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...this story is fucking bullshit and these guys weren't the Saints we see in this film. Read about the real event.
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first it was munich, then it was Zohan. Now it's Defiance. soon it will Inglorious Bastards. I'm already done.
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Was what the trailer reminded me of! However i'm probably alone in loving Last Samurai and Blood Diamond so i'm giving it the benefit and will pay the ticket price (the great cast doesn't hurt either)
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ALL of his films are made-for-TV quality. They're the film equivalent of an airport newsstand novel. Why he has any sort of following is bewildering to me. It's like being an Arthur Hiller or Mark Rydell fan.
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When did this happen?
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Was a pathetic remake of Dances w/ Wolves. I really liked Blood Diamond though.
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It's an Edward Zwick film. This man hasn't made a great film in 20 years, and he completely relies on phoned in emotions, and tired cliches that only hollywood can pull out of it's ass.
In short, I'am not wasting 12 dollars on the "Defiance(aka oscar bait)." -
... if you re-imagine it as a comedy called "The Littlest Samurai."
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Last Samurai sucks, what a floater.
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So they make shoes?
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He announced about a month ago on his Benjamin Button review.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1063669/
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Dec 23, 2008 12:13:06 PM CST
I totally missed that. I guess because I didn't read that review
by the gospel according to bastardface
Thanks, Danny.
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Dude, thanks for the link! I love German cinema and I've never even heard of Gansel. I'm humbled. Are his other films any good?
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That about sums up your WWII lesson for the day. Tomorrows class will cover tunnel digging and the Vietcong.
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was the curious case of ben button. He saw the movie as about the changes in life. In the final paragraph of his review he announced that after that he was leaving. not straight away but in six weeks and that he was moving to a new site called hitflix.com
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ZIONIST PROPAGANDA FROM HOLLYWOOD...come on masswyrm, sure it may be a shitty film, but your point about including the farmers point of view is silly. Too many germans, poor or otherwise sat by intimidated and did nothing during ww2, while extreme monstrosities were occurring. The Nazi's would not have stood a chance, if those "poor farmers" had joined an insurgency
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exterminated. the following Jews, the Gays, The disabled(there has never been any movies about that, to dark subject matter that) Communists, bolshiveks. However, the experiments on the disabled rank amongst the greatest crimes in history. They were killed because they unpure. That was also how they dealt with the communists, the bolsheviks. oh and the gays. Anyone who was ungerman was unpure.
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Because it screwed around with the samurai code. Look Tom Cruise was the produder on the movie. fine. He became a samurai. yet he did not died on the battlefield. and Ken Wanttanabe did.
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thing in samurai code. yet tom didnt do that in the movie. It makes a mockery of the samurai code.
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was very good, I thought. Good performance by Leo, characters were fleshed out, and it shined some light on a subject nobody knew anything about.
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When are they going to make a proper Wolfenstien movie?
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...that no samurai ever won a war by dying for his daimyo. He won it by making the other poor dumb samurai die for his daimyo..."
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...You knew this was going to happen. What I don't get is that in attempting to sanitize true life events, Hollywood actually robs them of what makes the story interesting. The moral quagmire faced by this group simply becomes a tale of Luke Skygoldstein and his merry men fighting dudes in black hats. Such an interesting story to waste too.
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It helped me learn to respect Leo DiCaprio's acting. That helped make his kickass work in The Departed less of a surprise than it might have been. Leo doing an Afrikaaner accent + Jennifer Connelly + Djimon Honsou + cool locations + ultraviolence = Me Likey. And I for one prefer The Last Samurai to Dances with Wolves. Sure, it's a little derivative. But Watanabe's supporting actor work is absolutely superb. And it has ninjas vs. samurais. And nowadays when I watch Dances with Wolves I don't see the Untouchables Kevin Costner, I see the Waterworld Kevin Costner. And I keep wondering why President Roslin is talking so funny.
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I'm not gonna get into it, but the seventh paragraph is telling.
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They weren't german farmers.
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That is just too funny, man.
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I remember reading some positive buzz about this film, but you make this seem simplistic and heavy handed. WW2 was complex and forced many people to make horrifying decisions where there were no good options (though plenty of people also made horrifying decisions when they still had options to do the right thing). Including some of that moral complexity would have made the characters stronger and made it a better film. This leaves me more time to see some of the other oscar bait.
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While I often will enjoy the occasional sunday afternoon comics section of my local overstuffed newspaper, I do that moreso now out of a sense of nostalgia than a sincere venture into entertainment and whimsy. Its as if Ziggy weren't even trying anymore and Zippy the clown? If I read one more bold face scribbled TH' my eyes are going to leap from their sockets and roll away.
All this personal prologue to say that Im not afaid of the vegetable wash color palettes of pastel mints and sapphires that have become such a stable staple of our "Sunday Funnies", but only in the sense that they are part of our history - they were the Silver Age of avatars, long before forums and talkbacks and graphically enhanced over-glorified usenet bicker-fests.
This particular avatar features some interesting perspective choices such as the dramatic over-sizing of the Dr Pepper soda can and the cigar sized fag (I used that correctly. Look it up.) of cigarettes he's smoking. The author's signature shows that this particular avatar is a re-release from 2006, and while I enjoy a good BNAT-style showing of Massa's past treasures as much as the next guy, this time of year we're all looking for something new and something daring. Like, oh I don't know, maybe a santa hat and a fake beard on a visibly too long ear strap ala Bad Santa. I enjoyed this one the same way I enjoy whatever cryptic Twilight Zone-y hi-jinks are going down in The Far Side (and yes, the seasonably unfunny Family Circle group portrait that gets recycled every Christmas), but now's the time for Massa to really show us something grand - we're all looking for that end-of-year avatar blockbuster. Something with heavier airbrushing than a FHM Hilary Clinton pictoral. Maybe in June, this avatar would really hit me in that nostaligic bone, but right now, its just sort of an indian burn on my oblongata.
chew em if you quit em,
RKDN -
It doesn't matter....there comes a time to fight, put down the HO and pick up the AXE. Those jews had good reason to rob to survive, because those farmers were weak....
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The best line from a movie: Dom DeLuise in "Loose Cannons" playing a Jewish porno film dealer picking up a automatic riffle and shooting at the Neo-Nazi bad guys while shouting, "You've fucked with the wrong Jew this time!"
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When does Inglorious Basterds come out?
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To option his script, "The Last Nigga on Earth" to Ed Zwick. It would star Tom Hanks. Hows that for Oscar bait?
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what the nutzis did in africa?
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Tim Busfield needs the work!
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Was the chick Arael banged a shiksa? That's Morbid's ultimate fantasy.
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After Bernie Madoff takes all their money, it's back to the woods for our favorite group of lovable bandits.
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Think about it. They all hide in the forrest, then defeat the Nazis with their primitive weapons. And I haven't seen this yet, but I assume they all dance at the end.
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who cares is moriarty is gone from AICN? He was a pretentious douche...but then again, I think I just answered my own question...most of the people on AICN are pretentious douches. If Michale Bay got hit by a truck, I think most of you would kill yourselves within the week since there was nothing left to bitch about.
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summer 2009.
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Putting aside their COMPLETE LACK of physical similarities, isn't Bell, like, 20 years YOUNGER than Craig or Schrieber? How many parents have a pair of kids, wait 20 years, then decide to have ANOHTER one? Just like Mel Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix in Signs, this shit just drags me out of a movie every time.
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Yet he takes this?
Fire your manager Now! -
About Zwick pandering toward the Academy. I've been fucking screaming that ever since I saw the first trailer for this movie. Hey Bond is playing a jewish person, what's this guy only capable of two roles?
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What a fucking terrible movie that was. I couldn't believe how bad it was.
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A good movie that discusses the plight of gays or the disabled during the Big One. Anybody have one to recommend? Oh, and From now on when you say a director isn't an auteur, lease name one that is so I have a reference point to work with.
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Some of you fuckers are too creative for your own good.funny shit.
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Sounds like it. I've seen some decent direct to dvd movies that fell just short of being good enough to release in a theater. This sounds the same. But Craig is a box office draw right now, so that will help the film. Plus people just love Nazis. Especially around the holidays.
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Nasty, I"m not justifiying the casting choices, but I have 1 brother and 1 sister, there is a 13 year difference between my brother and I and a 20 year difference between my sister and I so it's not unheard ofemeraldboy, you also forgot many christians toward the end (see Corrie Ten Boom and Deitrich Bonhoffer) and the Gypsys in those that the Nazi's went against
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there is a French or German film about a lady in WW2 who is married to a nazi solider, he goes off to war and she finds love with another woman, they are discovered and persecuted, can't think of the name right now but I've seen it
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It's a true story. I read the book. This shit is real. It doesn't always make sense because life doesn't always make sense. These were not perfect men fighting this battle.
That's not to say it's not a bad movie. It might very well be that this all comes across as cheesy, half-assed and just plain bad.
But suffice it to say, the story is true and so...tough noogies! -
there needs to be more movies set in the eastern front, like stalingrad (a real movie not that enemy of the gates horeshit), kursk, moscow battles or some such. Because if i see one more WWII movie about the D-Day invasion my ass will cave in and i'll FUCKING SPEW SHIT OUT OF MY MOUTH.
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Awesome.
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badasses together gets my butt in the seat.
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set to Sammy Hagar's Winner Takes it All. This would have worked better as 80s camp then as failed Oscar Bait.
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Since you've read up on the events this was based on, I have a question for you:
(Spoiler)
Did the brothers plus survivors really have a shootout with a Nazi platoon and armored tank, but survive thanks to the heroic last minute intervention of Russian soldiers and one brother's hijacking of said tank to blow the away the rest of the Nazis?
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, but that finale was the final nail in the coffin for me since it was so contrived and Ramboesque. But on the other hand, Zwick gave a talk before the movie, and he seemed so sincere about the story that I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt. I could of looked it up myself but I actually forgot about the entire thing until now... -
His present avatar is a blatant Gahan Wilson tribute.
Look 'im up. -
Dec 23, 2008 11:11:41 PM CST
Wow, those pesky Jews and their problems with being NEARLY EXTER
by annoyyou
"The problem ISN’T that he refuses to demonize these people in any way. Don’t for a minute think that’s the issue here. The problem is that Zwick keeps presenting us with very complicated, dark situations that he always seems to white wash in the favor of our characters." Wow. Have you ever read "The Painted Bird" by Jerzy Kosinsky, or even heard about Roman Polansky's childhood during the Holocaust? If you had and had internalized the horror of both their stories, I doubt you would have leveled such a criticism at Zwick. You remind me of the Austrian guy I used to know who would always complain about how "the Jews never forget about WWII." Right, dude - we also can't really excuse or sympathize with the plights of the Gentiles who colluded with the Nazis to help exterminate 6 million of us. Call us crazy that way. Zwick may have made a lousy film for many reasons, but as a Jew there's no way he could paint a very different picture than the one we all call Shoah.
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Right. So by your rationale 1) a Jewish man who steals and then murders a gentile is justified because it was during the holocaust and all gentiles are clearly in collusion with nazis and 2) I am an anti-semite on par with Hitler himself for daring to say that a movie is weak because it hints at his characters being human but presents them as one note. Nicely done sir. You do your race proud.
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Another retarded argument on AICN. Take a deep breath everyone.
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towards the Zionists instead. They were the ones who deliberately provoked Hitler and the Holocaust. Read the archives at nkusa.org.
I'm also sure if AnnoyYou is true to his convictions then he's understanding of Hamas and Hezbollah for defending Palestinians against Israeli democide.
What a racist. -
Time to move on. The human race is constantly trying to top the Holocaust anyway. So remembering it will in no way stop another one from happening. And constantly regurgitating it is, in itself, the epitome of pandering.
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Damnit Charlie - I was clearly trying to bait the guy. Why you gotta spoil my fun? =P
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Dec 24, 2008 12:07:37 AM CST
ANNOYYOU, YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT "J'ACCUSE" BY AHARON SHABTAI
by bringingsexyback
His poetry and writings throw cold water on your argument. Meaning, there is no excuse or justification for persecuted peoples to mimic the actions of the persecutors. Here's PW's write-up:
From Publishers Weekly
In this provocative collection, Israeli poet Shabtai, author of more than 15 books of poetry, confronts what could be described as a collective identity crisis in Jewish culture, particularly in Israel.
Having suffered immense persecution throughout history and learned to identify keenly with the dispossessed, Israeli Jews are now in a position of dominance over another people.
Shabtai condemns Israel's role as occupier and military power, distancing himself from his country ("I'm a disciple of Shakespeare, not Ben Gurion") and identifying explicitly with the Palestinians ("I'm a Palestinian Jew").
While there are occasional glimmerings of personal struggle here-"O my country, my country,/ with each sandal,/ with each thread / of my khaki pants, / I've loved you"-for the most part, the book is a relentless polemic, elegizing innocent Palestinians and demonizing Israeli soldiers: "Idiotic soldiers of lead, / was your father a knife/ that only knows how to chop?"
Plumbing modes familiar from Turkish poet Nazim Hikmet's subtle eroticism, Shabtai veers into sexual and violent shock value: "In the morning she sucks off a sniper in uniform,/ and at evening he returns/ and proudly displays/ the X he etched / into the butt of his rifle,/ after he'd terminated/ a young woman, age 19,/ who was hanging up laundry/ on her roof in Hebron."
Titled after Emile Zola's impassioned defense of Alfred Dreyfus, these poems seem particularly designed to provoke a Jewish audience, using images of oppression drawn from Jewish liturgy and history. The book compares Israeli soldiers to Pharaoh's troops in ancient Egypt, refers to "pogroms" against Palestinians living in "ghettos" and explicitly likens present-day Palestinians to Jews living in 1930s Germany.
What role this book will play in ongoing debates about Israel, the West Bank and Gaza remains to be seen, but it could prove even more controversial than Mahmoud Darwish's recent (and much more nuanced) Unfortunately, It Was Paradise.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc. -
Do me a solid and dial it back a little. You aren't gonna win an argument with this guy. He wanted to highlight one part of the review while ignoring another in order to get up on his soapbox. And he looked like a douche doing it. There's no winning this.
Come on, it's Christmas. =D For me? -
Happy Christmakwanzanakah!
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What kind of geek are you?
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Dec 24, 2008 12:45:17 AM CST
LIFE DAY? I THOUGHT IT WAS THE GEKKO LINE FROM WALL STREET
by bringingsexyback
Maybe I need to do the movie a day thing myself ...
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Those Nazis had a good reason to rip the gold fillings from peoples mouths. Inflation was through the roof and those jews were weak.
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Sorry I don't have a direct quote, but Ebert has made Massawyrm's point about Holocaust movies and Academy voting before. It's kind of silly.
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An Ed Zwick movie is PANDERING? You don't say.
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What the devil is Mass griping about?
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was Carice's nudity. The movie itself was cartoonish.
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I can't wait to see Jessica Alba in Mickey Mouse ears!
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or however that movie was spelled would be great. I know Spiegelman has had offers before. Maybe some day he'll reconsider.
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...is not your friend.
When will left wing nut jobs get that their friends in Hamas and Hezbollah are fascists and hate them? All you have in common is that you hate Israel and/or Jews. Pathetic. -
No interest in this.
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"what? again with the milk? Always it's milk with this guy..."
"Is it 1%? Because you know anything more than 1% makes me gassy"'oh Heaven forbid morty should have gas...never mind that I'm starving over here!' -
Well, not all the holocaust films can be Schindlers List. I actually liked The Boy in the Stiped PJ's, so maybe this has some hope...
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that have ostensibly foriegn characters set in foriegn lands speaking English to each other in silly, theatrical accents. How can you take a movie seriously when everyone is speaking their dialog like they were in a cartoon? It's distracting and pointless. We know that they are supposed to be speaking Russian. Let the actors use their natural accents. The audience will get it. Watching that trailer with Daniel Craig talking like Boris Badinov really put me off this thing.
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you idiot....those jewish fighters were not committing acts as devious as what the nazis were committing, your point is ridiculous....you and massywyrm just have hollywood jew envy
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is the same as stealing to get sustinence. There goal was to survive, not some malicious intent to dominate the farmers in czech republic. They were stealing from those farmers who were indifferent, or weak willed to let genocide occur....those who trade freedom for security deserve neither.....
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I read in creative screenwriting magazine that this is another movie that has been in development for like ten years. Not necessarily becuase it was bad, just rewrites and scheduling and so forth. So I don't think Zwick saw black book and said, "I'm going to make a more audience friendly version of this" but who knows maybe he did.
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Does this work?How about this?
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