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BNAT Footage Fest: Massawyrm Watches The WATCHMEN (for 22 minutes...)

Hola all. Doctor Massawyrm here. It is Sunday, December 14th and we are watching 22 minutes of Watchmen. You would like it. 12 Second ago you were minding your own business in front of a computer. 5 minutes from now you will be calling me names in talkback. Of everyone around these parts, I’m easily the most skeptical of Zach Snyder’s ability to nail Watchmen. It was almost exactly two years ago that I first wrote about my strong displeasure with his adaptation of Frank Miller’s brilliant 300 - chiefly that he robbed the story of one of its best characters (Stumblios) only to replace the missing story by expanding Leonidas’ wife’s role from one telling frame in the book into a 20 minute political rape story. And while a dark, political story involving the sexual abuse of a woman is about as Frank Miller as you get, it wasn’t the comic, nor the historical event. It just looked like it. Now there’s not too terribly much wrong with that. I didn’t like it. A lot of people didn’t. But a hell of a lot more people did. They loved the loud, slow motion, visual pornography of it. And God bless you if you did. I wish I could love it like so many others have. It really is a very pretty movie. But Watchmen isn’t just a graphic novel. It is one of the best comic book stories ever told. It is a book I always thought might have been even better as a full blown literary novel – a thick tome deconstructing the superhero mythos and updating it into a time when it seemed like even spandex and super powers couldn’t save us. Zach Snyder has made exactly two films before this: both of them adaptations. Neither of them faithful. So when he states how he has used the comic book as a Bible and couldn’t imagine changing a thing (except, you know, maybe the ending), pardon me if my asshole puckers up a bit. I’ll believe it when I see it. So how did the 22 minutes play to someone nervous about it? Well, it certainly LOOKED like Watchemen, I can say that with absolute certainty. Virtually every detail pops right out of the comic book – from the way characters look and move right on to the angles from which things are framed and shot. The image that most tickled me and evoked the comic was a simple one – Rorschach and Daniel (The Nite Owl) sitting on the steps down in the Nite Owl’s lair. It was EXACT. Every detail, right down to how Rorschach walks down the tunnel afterwards is right out of the book. Seemingly word for word and beat for beat. The credit sequence is gorgeous and entirely new. It is an elegantly shot series of 3D still-lifes of iconic photographs from the Watchmen universe and is a perfect example of what Snyder does best. It is beautiful, evocative and perfectly sets up the universe in which he is about to play. Several people have already asked me about slow motion in this film and what they’ve seen in the trailer, and I can say thus far there isn’t an abundant amount of it – not like 300. I’ve often joked that having cut out all of the story from 300, Snyder had to do SOMETHING to fill the time. This time around he doesn’t have a second to waste. So he doesn’t. Yet. Now I said LOOK for a reason – because from what we saw I didn’t yet FEEL like Watchmen. But I’m not going to blame that on entirely on Snyder. Despite getting 22 minutes in (of what I keep hearing will end up a 150-some odd minute theatrical release) we got exactly 13 pages into the first issue of the comic. That’s it. Aside from the credits there is the death of the Comedian, the first half of Rorschach’s rooftop journal entry and his investigation into the Comedian’s apartment, Daniel reminiscing first with the elder Nite Owl then with Rorschach. The footage ended with Rorschach walking down the tunnel and Daniel sitting alone on the stoop. We never got far enough into the story to feel any investment whatsoever in these characters – we just weren’t far enough into the film. As much as it all LOOKED right, this footage worried me for two reasons. Chiefly, it is that it takes 22 minutes to get through half of Chapter 1. There are 12 Chapters. The Pirate story is ending up on DVD and not in the theatre (a brilliant compromise), but what else will be missing from the final film. 1/6th the way through the film but 1/24th the way through the story. Just something to think about. Secondly, and far more minor is that the death of the Comedian is a bit weird. Despite Snyder saying that he couldn’t imagine telling that sequence any different than in the book, he does two things the book doesn’t. First off, it isn’t quite intercut with the subsequent investigation. He tells that linearly. And then he shows us the assailant (but doesn’t give anything away.) It’s not so much done POV like in the book. It’s watching this big guy whoop the ever living shit out of The Comedian. There’s NOTHING wrong with doing it that way. I only mention it because Snyder himself pointed out that sequence at Comic Con last year (a year and a half ago) and used it to illustrate what he intended to do. All told, it was a very beautiful, original looking 22 minutes that perfectly evoked Dave Gibbons classic art. I’m just not yet sold on how faithful this will be to Alan Moore’s grand opus. Really, it’s one of the best comics ever written. So I remain cautiously optimistic that all of the remaining changes to the film are as minor as rearranging the Comedian’s death is. I really would love nothing more than to see this rock. Many who saw it with me were already convinced. Looks like the big hurdle now is going to be that altered ending. I’m dying to find out what they do. Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em. Massawyrm
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Readers Talkback
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  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Looking good

    by G100

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:14 p.m. CST

    can't wait.

    by brassai2003

    Dollar Bill rocks.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:15 p.m. CST


    by brassai2003

    I'll gladly take second on a Watchmen thread!

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:15 p.m. CST


    by OnusBone

    I always loved that scene with Rorschach and Daniel in the tunnels. One of the most cinematic moments in a very cinematic book

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:16 p.m. CST

    I'm pretty fucking excited about this!

    by Powers Boothe

    March 2009 couldn't come sooner.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:16 p.m. CST


    by eric haislar

    Will u be pissed if its not a squid?

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:17 p.m. CST

    I'll never get what's the point of a page by page

    by David Cloverfield

    scene by scene adaptation. This is a different medium you better change it... all you end up with 22 minutes as the first half of the first chapter. 300 was as "faithful" adaptation as you can get. Too faithful, if you will. But then again, I liked Snyder's Dawn better than Romero's, so I'm probably an idiot. I'll go and eat my shoe now.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:19 p.m. CST

    I started reading this...

    by Jaka

    ...but quickly remembered I don't want to read anything about the film before I see it, so I stopped.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Are people still planning to "boycott" this if...

    by Powers Boothe

    the squid subplot is removed?<p>If so, I guess it will be easier for me to get a ticket on opening night!

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:21 p.m. CST

    Is this that movie that looks like a X Box game?

    by uberman

    Is it? Cause I love X Box!!

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Pity it's not intercut exactly

    by G100

    Because some of the transitions are wittily done and usually linked with dialogue or actions of the scene.<p> <p>Snyder could indeed speed things up by losing a great deal of his slo-mo but that would be too much to hope for.<p> <p>I suspect we're going to miss much of the periphery and even some charcters flashback detail to squeeze it all in. That and the fact that the "ending" seems to be deliberately more sparse and "straightforward".<p> <p>We'll see Manhattan and Rorscach's stories in full I think but possibly not everyones.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Why would I want to watch men...

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    ...when I could be watching Paul Blart: Mall Cop?

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST

    The pissing and moaning about changes is...

    by Powers Boothe

    annoying. <p>I can't think of a single book to film adaptation that wasn't altered in some way. It's impossible to get everything to fit without the finished film being at least five or six hours long.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:29 p.m. CST

    One of the best comics ever written ...

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    ... but not drawn. A superhero comic that eschews all the cool things about superhero comics is very writerly, that's for sure. <p>Funny thing is, the film seems to depart from the comic in that regard - there appear to be quite a few money shots. Is that a good idea or bad? I have no clue. I will say this: Alan Moore asserting Watchmen was "designed" to show off what exclusive stuff the medium could do is irritating, when I'm pretty sure he read some Lee/Kirby stuff from the 60s which made the same case in a lot less self-conscious fashion. <p>I like Watchmen, but some of this shit has gotten out of hand.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST

    If they intercut between the two scenes

    by David Cloverfield

    It would've looked like we see what they're hypothesizing, like on SCI. Asking for that kind of faithfulness is extremely weird. (I don't want to write stupid, because I respect Massa more than that.)

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Fuck you!!!

    by MaxTheSilent

    Just kidding. Yeah, I think only the most blind optimist would have total faith in Snyder to translate this monumental work to the screen. The clips and trailers look nice, but there's no way they could ever do THAT ending. And I can only imagine that fact diluting the whole point of the story.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:32 p.m. CST

    LOTR stands the test of time.

    by knowthyself

    Despite all the changes (and their are many and some considered sacriligious by many fans) and despite the constant slo mo and despite the abundant sense of style. Sounds to me like Snyders on the right path with Watchmen.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:34 p.m. CST

    I'm with you, Cloverfield.

    by Fah-Cue

    NOT a single adaptation from book to movie is exact. Jaws. The Godfather. Jurassic Park. Clockwork Orange. Yet fanboys in here rant and rave when something from the comics is different on the big screen. It's like missing "more cowbell" from a "Don't Fear The Reaper" rendition. Ugh. "300" was great. And I'm glad that the majority of the people in here don't MAKE movies.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:34 p.m. CST


    by fettskull

    lol Fuck the squid.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Not boycotting, but...

    by Larry of Arabia

    I don't want to see it. Some stories work better on the page than in a film. For example, has there ever been a good version of "100 Years of Solitude?" No. Why? Because it's a book that can't be adapted into a short form film. The story is too epic in scope, long, detailed, complex, with a strong writerly voice. I just don't think it will work. Prove me wrong, please.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Dude, settle on an avatar! You've got more avatars than

    by YackBacker

    Padme Amidala has formal gowns. Geeky as my jab may be, you sir are an AICN Diva!<p> I did, however, enjoy your reaction to the WATCHMEN footage.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Moving Comics

    by slowgraffiti

    You all have to check out the moving Watchmen comics on iTunes. There are seven out of the twelve chapters out now and they are aroudn 30mins each. Me and some buddys just watched all 3 1/2 hours of it last night. As long as you can get past the fact that a man reads the female dialog too, it's clear sailing.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    If Naked Lunch could be made into a movie...

    by knowthyself

    ..I don't count out ANY book for film adaptation.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:39 p.m. CST

    David Cloverfield/erichaislar

    by Massawyrm 1

    <p>David - Not complaining. Like I said, I bring it up only two juxtapose what Snyder SAID about a specific scene and what he DID with that scene, to better give you an idea of the kinds of changes he might make.</p> <p>Erichaislar - Nope. As long as the ending is equally as brutal and means the same thing in context of the story, then who really gives a shit if it is a squid or not. The SQUID itself was never really part of the story - the point was the atrocity of what happens. If Snyder gets that right, it'll be just another Horn of Gondor moment.</p>

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Im gonna go see it the opening day...

    by m_reporter

    ... but I wont be expecting a true adaptation of Watchmen. If it looks like the book, it doesn't mean that it plays out like the book.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:41 p.m. CST

    If Who's watching the Watchmen

    by Snookeroo

    then the Daleks are running about unchecked.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:41 p.m. CST

    If film adaptations were just copies of their books.

    by knowthyself

    Why even bother? I mean why not JUST read the book instead? I think adaptations should offer something the book doesn't so that each is its own experience. You read the book for one thing and watch the film for another.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Depends what's cut Boothe

    by G100

    Would I prefer it to be six hours long and a couple of films ? Yep. But it ain't gonna happen.<p> <p>But we'll see what we see. Like I said he seems to be going for Manhattan and Rorschach's stories/backstories to be told fairly comprehensively (or at least what we have heard so far indicates as much) but Massawyrm is right to be concerned by what might be "jettisoned" to accomadate the runtime. It's a complex story that could suffer from feeling rushed.<p> <p>Happily it's clearly not the shitfest the spirit is and we can but hope that Gibbons will have at least tried to keep Snyder "honest" for most of it.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:43 p.m. CST

    if they can split KILL BILL..


    ...(which totally didn't need to run as long and painful as it could have been an effective 2 and a half hour movie, but it was like an exercise in 'how long can we stretch out a fight scene or a boring conversation and pretend it's dramatic)..then why not split WATCHMEN?<P>i guess kill bill didn't pan out?<P>they should totally split the watchmen...only make it even more of a 'first' release both halves at the same time. you can catch the 12 o clock show, go grab lunch and then get back in time to catch the last half at 3 or 4pm. or see 'em back to back if you have a strong bladder. the studios would make double the money off 'one movie' and you know you all would still pay it. i would.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Zom-Bot..where to start...

    by knowthyself

    1) Kill Bill was a huge success. Splitting it did them big business. Worked for KB. Didn't work for Matrix. 2)It would be a marketing NIGHTMARE to promote two parts of the same film released at the same time. Thats why CHE's two parts are being released seperately. I honestly believe three hours is enough for Watchmen. It's not THAT dense. LOTR was dense, not Watchmen. You don't have to adapt every single panel. The black freightner isn't necessary outside of the comic. The extra pages attached to each chapter don't have to be in it. I thought they did a fine job cutting the fat from V for Vendetta for an excellent two hour adaptation of the comic.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:55 p.m. CST


    by stolen

    would have made a great 12 episode series on HBO

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:55 p.m. CST

    oh i see-


    i hadn't heard watchmen was still going to be three hours. that should be enough time, but the 22 minute mark for barely into the story does concern me too. i hadn't researched the success of kill bill. i think if it did pay off it was the novelty, because most of my friends- many die hard tarantino fans, pretty much didn't care by the time kill bill 2 came out, and were left flat afterwards even though they saw it. so i just figured the majority of dumb america didn't turn out for KB2 and just bought the two pack dvd at walmart for $15.<P>i certainly feel if they split the watchmen with a time lapse, the general public would lose interest. i figured it may make a good marketing gimmick to release two two hour watchmen halves at once...but what do i know, thank god i'm not a corporate promoter!

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Yes I will boycott it...

    by Chadley BeBay

    because the creature from the 5th dimmension is cut out. Its bullshit. They changed the ending and that means they fucked up. You can tell me how retarded I am, but I don't need to see it. Its my favorite graphic novel ever, and a movie that is not true is something I just don't want to see. Have fun, though!

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 2:58 p.m. CST

    knowthyself....kill bill didnt do all that well in theaters

    by bacci40

    made all its money in dvd sales and rentals...and they did more to v than just cut the fat...they changed characters and motivations...they changed the point of the story...and if that is what zack ends up doing in watchmen, there are going to be alot of people who end up pissed

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    I kind of agree with knowthyself

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    The story isn't that long or complicated, minus the black freighter especially. <p>It might have been a cool TV miniseries but I don't know that there's really enough material there.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:07 p.m. CST

    My concerns more or less exactly

    by I am_NOTREAL

    Yes, the trailers have LOOKED good. It look like Watchmen. The concerns about using nearly a half hour of screen time to tell such a small piece of the story are well founded. This is an elaborate, fully realized fictional world that takes time to establish. It doesn't lend itself to a single feature, even one as long as three hours. A LOTR-style trilogy might've done it, but I guess no studio was going to bankroll that, and Snyder ain't no Peter Jackson. This movie will gloss over so many details that gave the original work such rich life that in the end, LOOKING like Watchmen is all it will accomplish. Like 300, it'll be a nice-looking but ultimately empty piece of work that only suggests the accomplishment of the the graphic novel.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:20 p.m. CST

    The HBO mini-series thing has ALWAYS been a great idea...

    by Thrillho77

    However! They would certainly not have anywhere NEAR the budget of a feature film and the quality of the film would take a HUGE dive. I don't know how you'd even do Dr. Manhattan for a mini-series...especially now that we've seen the CGI one that looks SO good.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:22 p.m. CST

    I'm ready. Don't fail me.

    by noncents

    I want this to be everything it can be. Nuff said.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:25 p.m. CST


    by jebuslovesyou666

    I agree. I'm not sold. And the fact that Snyder said he used the book as a bible for the movie, and then changes the fucking ending!!!??? Its horseshit. Snyder's bitch. There I said it. He's just as like any other Hollywood asshole except he spits in his while jerking us off.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:28 p.m. CST

    As I suspected, Snyder's work is beautiful but vapid

    by reflecto

    I suspect he will evoke Watchmen but not actually doing a cohesive movie - just another visual orgy.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Don't even read this review. It's not bad, just wildly speculat

    by dr sauch

    Just wait for the movie.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    just reminded me

    by RonnieDanger

    i cant wait to see what the smokes look like,,,,that damn circle has been pissing me off for years

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Nice introduction to the article..

    by Aeghast

    ..I'll keep reading now

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4 p.m. CST

    Zack Snyder - Get Off My Lawn!

    by IAmMrMonkey!

    I want my squid damnit. If I wanted any less, I'd feel ashamed of myself for shaking Alan Moore's hands all those years ago and telling him how great his work is. If you fuck this up, I'm going Clint Eastwood on your ass.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:01 p.m. CST

    You haters...

    by Sixtyhurts

    Chadley BeBay, jebuslovesyou666, and others. OOH! You're going to boycott it because they made an AWESOME movie based on an AWESOME comic book series? Well, I guess that makes you super-legitimate extra-special fanboys, huh? I guess that PROVES how super-pure you are to...who? You mom when she does your laundry? The guy who makes your fries at Burger Queen? Wow--you sure are cool! I'm sure Alan Moore REALLY cares an EXTRA lot about you now, huh? Get bent. More room to stretch out at the theatre for the rest of us REAL fanboys. Who actually enjoy movies. And comics. Rather then loathe them. And live in our parents' basement.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:10 p.m. CST

    So...prepare for a big bag of pretzels...

    by Darth Macchio know...I was going to put back in the fray that the fucking squid itself is NOT the fucking point and that the notion the squid represents IS the fucking point and changing that is shorting the end of the story but that IS fucking pointless. Other than the idiotic "people would hate the squid! they'd think it was Cloverfield!!!" I have heard no compelling reason outside of time constraints for removing the squid. But who cares! Change everything! You guys get upset if they call it "The Watchmen" but not if they alter the ending? Really?<p>But instead of trying to work the original ending out Snyder drops an entire portion of the story and then just fucking makes everything else up. Makes it up out of thin fucking air! Do we even know who's writing this shit? Who's attempting to put their likely mediocre work up against the greatest Graphic Novel of all time? As well as one of the greatest Graphic Novelist of all time? (Moore)<p>But then I realized that I simply don't give a shit guys insisting on removing the squid are right. Of course you are. You've been right since the beginning. Fuck all the praise for the Watchmen GN; you guys know better. Obviously.<p>All nonsense aside tho...I really do hope you're right. I hope I'm wrong that this will be shit if they pretzel twist Manhattan as the enemy the world unites against. A human who, through a tragic accident, was turned into a God. Helps us win Viet Nam and now either wants to kill us or is killing us accidentally (I don't even give a shit anymore where Snyder is going with it) and thus becomes the "threat" that unites the world in common purpose.<p>Yeah, believe it or not, I hope that bullshit does work on screen. I do hope I'm wrong that it won't.<p>Cheers...

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:15 p.m. CST

    douchebag sixtyhurts

    by jebuslovesyou666

    I never said I was boycotting it, in fact I wouldn't even believe anyone who said they were. I just think its pretty fucking lame when Hollywood takes a story we all love a changes it to suit what they think will make the story better. Get off Snyders nuts cockgobbler. And the fact that you call yourself a fanboy is really gaaay dude. Don't be such a tool.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    And of course I won't boycott it....

    by Darth Macchio

    ...but that won't stop Snyder's gratuitous story line changes from screwing the whole thing up.<p>I want this to be great and I hope I'm absolutely proven wrong about Snyder. 300 is corny and pretentious but fun and beautifully shot. I hope Watchmen is Snyder's masterpiece...I really do.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    and another thing

    by jebuslovesyou666

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    by jebuslovesyou666

    I can't wait to see this movie and I hope it fucking rocks.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Massa--quick question

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Do the protagonists refer to themselves as "the watchmen" as in the last trailer? If so, that fucking sucks for myriad reasons.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST

    if there's no squid

    by Saint Andeol

    i wonder how the Comedian discovers the secret plot without seeing the island out an airplane window.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Massa--quick question

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Do the protagonists refer to themselves as "the watchmen" as in the last trailer? If so, that fucking sucks for myriad reasons.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Massa--quick question

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    Do the protagonists refer to themselves as "the watchmen" as in the last trailer? If so, that fucking sucks for myriad reasons.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Le Vicious

    by Thrillho77

    Yes, they do. It was confirmed on Slash Film's podcast. Dan Dreiberg says, "Watchmen are over" - in the actual film (the 22 min. at BNAT) and not JUST the trailer.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:44 p.m. CST

    And yes, I'm pissed about it

    by Thrillho77

    Because there is no reason to change this. It is clearly just so that the public doesn't walk out saying, "Minutemen??? But then who were The Watchmen?!?! I don't get it?!"

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 4:53 p.m. CST

    well, you saw 22 minutes...

    by Stickman83

    but aren't 8 of those minutes the opening credits? I mean, the GN doesn't have any credits to deal with... so in reality it's not 22 mins and more like 14... that's not that bad, almost a page a minute. I'm sure some things will be cut or shortened but it doesn't look like it will be TOO drastic. I think we'll be alright.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Just reread this the other day

    by Bass Ackwards

    Was actually surprised at how quickly it went. I remember it being a long, involving experience that, but it actually moves through its plot points pretty quickly. I think this might be better suited to a movie adaptation than many give it credit for.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:01 p.m. CST

    2 things:

    by FatherMcGruderKicksAssForTheLord

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Squid-no squid...

    by worldofwarcraft

    Pointless to bitch about it now, it ain't in. But can we all agree that The Comedian looks great? ... Dad!

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:07 p.m. CST

    oh great, way to begin, FatherMcLoser

    by FatherMcGruderKicksAssForTheLord

    So anyway, 2 things: <p> First, thanks for a reasoned approach to this, Wyrm. There's a reason you're swiftly becoming a favorite around here. This sums up what I've felt pretty much all along with regard to hope vs trepidation and mixed opinions on Snyder. <p> Second, @ knowthyself, I assume you know that while Cronenberg made a movie entitled Naked Lunch which featured elements from Burroughs' text, his movie was a loose adaptation at best.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Watchmen will be a disaster

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Snyder has no feel for story or character, only slo-mo visuals. He's not even a good action director. The word which will best describe this film? Empty.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:25 p.m. CST

    This reminds of those old 'Star Trek' reviews

    by Jodet

    You know, the ones that would say, 'I've never been a Trekkie, I don't own a Starfleet uniform, I don't put on little Spock ears and go to conventions. Now, here's my review....'

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Saint Andeol

    by Wants Vaders Executor

    "if there's no squid i wonder how the Comedian discovers the secret plot without seeing the island out an airplane window." <br> <br> Turn your brain on man. Instead of an island he stumbles upon some other facility of Veidt's. It's not that hard to incorporate into the film.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 5:42 p.m. CST


    by Mockingbuddha

    Uh, once again, then Minutemen were the old school capes. The first and only meeting of Nite Owl, Rorschach, Silk Spectre II, Ozmandiius, Doc. Manhattan, and the Comedian was for a group called... wait for it... The Crimebusters. Very lame name but that is exactly why it should be in the movie. What upsets me more than the name change, cause I can understand an image conscious dude like Zack not wanting to soil his perfect fucking frat boy teeth with a name like Crimebusters, is that there was ever a group at all. The attempt to form a group like the minutemen showed that you couldn't be in a super hero group with someone like Doc. M walking around and Milhouse in the whitehouse forever. The fact that there ever was a super group made up of these pathological freaks is a big mistake, I'd say even bigger than a huge chuthulu thing that slaughters the brains of half of New York. By the way, I'm still planning to throw raw week old calamari at the audience of this movie on opening night. Squid or Death!!! (ø‹›≈≈

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:01 p.m. CST


    by thecrimsoncurse

    i preferred the review of the footage from the guy at chud.<br><br>I believe the team isn't known as "the watchmen" but that all costumed vigilantes are called watchmen. i mean that makes sense if people are tagging 'who watches the watchmen', maybe years later they casually refer to themselves as watchmen, as the term has penetrated the culture. thats not how i would prefer it, but i find it acceptable.<br><br>i'm curious as to what massa thinks of the chud review.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Intercuting the investigation< linearly

    by Power_Girl

    You know why he is doing it linearly? because the intercuting/layering methods Moore used are amateur attempts to give an greater illusion of complexity in the place of simplicity. <p> Yeah I said it! There are a lot of amateur things about Moores work. He is a raw writer who is very indulgent.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:15 p.m. CST

    I read David Hayter's 2006 script.

    by Kevin Holsinger

    It was faithful enough to the point where I wondered why they even needed a rewrite. The dialogue was mostly intact, and the only major deviations were giving Laurie a power and, of course, Ozymandias' master plan. All they had to do was put Snyder's visuals to that script and fans would be ecstatic.<BR><BR>So the question I have to ask is, why did they feel they needed a rewrite?<BR><BR>Oh well. Guess I'll find out in a few months.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Kevin Holsinger

    by Thrillho77

    Good question. I have another question though...why would they give Laurie a power? Why are writers apparently compelled to change things for zero reason?

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:22 p.m. CST

    I don't want to see a compromised adaptation

    by ebonic_plague

    So, call it a boycott, whatever... I just don't have that nerd compulsion to pay to see Snyder's movie just because it's officially licensed Watchmen product. I enjoyed the movie version of 300 just fine and actually preferred his version of Dawn, but I'm finished with wasting time and money on merely "adequate" movie versions of truly exceptional comics. I guess some people really enjoyed V, but to me it was just a dumbed down excuse for professional cosplay and a completely underwhelming movie experience. I hope you guys enjoy this one for what it is, but frankly, I've got better things to waste my time on than yet another compromised, rationalized, Hollywood-ized disappointment. That shit's for the birds. I'll stick to the comic book, and then hopefully the movie will be less of a disappointment when I catch it 2 years from now on cable.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:30 p.m. CST


    by ebonic_plague

    If you're a fanboy, then I'm about to go pledge a frat, because, god damn, you are in desperate need of a swirlie, at the very least.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Is the public stupid or is it Hollywood?

    by IAmMrMonkey!

    Actually i can quite believe that people would ask "Who were the Watchmen then, if that movie was about the Minutemen?"<p>Yeah, it's the public. They will look up and ask me to believe that they have brains and i'll whisper "no",

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:50 p.m. CST

    The opening credits may be the best part of the movie

    by Garbageman33

    And if so, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. They're just that cool. Although I certainly hope they get to keep the Dylan song. It's so iconic it makes the Watchmen seem equally iconic.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 6:52 p.m. CST

    It's a shame Snyder didn't make Lord Of The Rings

    by IAmMrMonkey!

    I'd have loved to have seen Frodo have a full on battle with a three headed skeleton dragon in Mordor (possibly whilst wielding a giant magical axe), and then listen to him explaining how he knows better than Tolken.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 7 p.m. CST

    Dude is Mssawyrm smoking a meth pipe?

    by Ace of Knaves

    or is it supposed to be like Laurie Juspezcyk's cigarette holder?

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 7:52 p.m. CST

    I love Massa

    by buffywrestling

    Yet I hate him too. I'm so conflicted...

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:30 p.m. CST

    I really had hoped for a mini series on HBO

    by Six Demon Bag

    or something...that way they could've stretched it out faithfully

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:36 p.m. CST


    by Earthquake WestCoast

    The dog dies in that movie. DO NOT TAKE KIDS TO THAT FILM. It's being promoted as a family film. It will scar kids. It opens on christmas day. How sick is that theyre releasing it on that day.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:40 p.m. CST

    Thunderbolt Ross and stolen

    by Jaka


  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:42 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    Dylan has allowed his songs to be used in other film and tv with far less intergrity attached to them than 'Watchmen'. I'm pretty sure their budget will allow them to use whatever songs they please.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:49 p.m. CST

    several days after

    by j_difool

    CHUD reported exactly the same thing. why am i reading this twice?

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:55 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    True, but there is a clear distinction between the Trek fans who do, and those who don't. I have a feeling the same can be said for 'Watchmen' geeks. I'm a fan of 'Watchmen' because I was 17 the year it was released (yeppers, I still have all my first printings) and in the heyday of my comic book collecting (these days I collect graphic novels). But to this day, 'Watchmen' is the only comic book I own with characters in spandex being taken seriously (well, I guess there are a couple issues within the Sandman series, but I'm a SUPER Gaiman freak and have not even THOUGHT about touching his superhero work). Whether all this turns out to be good, or bad, for those behind the creation of the 'Watchmen' movie remains to be seen. A boycott, really, is kind of a joke, as the filmmakers are CERTAINLY looking to pull in a MUCH broader audience than JUST die hard 'Watchmen' fans. But if they get a percentage of the die hards, a percentage of the casual readers, a percentage of comic book readers in general, and can somehow grab the moving going publics attention as well, chances are they're going to have a sizeable hit on their hands. It's worked with quite a few other comic book adaptations recently. It just seems as if they haven't quite figured out the formula in regards to getting all those peoples attention just yet, so we continue to bounce back and forth from massive hit to giant flop in this genre.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 8:57 p.m. CST

    The comic deconstructs superhero comics

    by bah

    The movie should, and I think will, use the same story to deconstruct superhero movies. Which means it will necessarily change some. In one sense, Watchmen is a parody -- or maybe satire is a more appropriate term. That's why you might get nipples on Ozymandias' costume.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    opening credits may be the best part of Snyder

    by future help

    you have to admit....the first 10 minutes of his Dawn of the Dead was the best stuff in years. Johnny Cash helped.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 9:25 p.m. CST

    Ok so everyone is super anal

    by Series7

    About their Watchmen being fucking beat for beat of the comic. So much that if the movie so much as gets one thing wrong, they would rather have seen a high school style overhead projection of comic book pages instead??? <P> Where the fuck was all this concern about Wanted. Timur Borgir pretty much read the title of the comic and the first 10 pages and said. YES I'll have that one and then decided to do the opposite of the comic, though without ever having read the comic. Shit that comic book movie was so bad why did they ever bother calling it Wanted? Why didn't they call the movie Loom of Destiny? All the while Harry's cupping the balls of that movie about how over the top it is, while I'm falling asleep during the big train sequence, though I read the trade in one sit through. I saw that movie with some friends that thought OH Wowy. Didn't know it was based on a comic and then I told them all how the comic ended and they all agreed that it was much better. I know Watchmen is everyone Koran and all but come on Wanted has to at least be the Book of John Smith or at least everyone Million Little Pieces. Its a fucking good book, and even if Zach fucks up the ending, at least he's shown initiative and tried, which is more then you can say for 90% of comic book movies.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Hopefully they got Rob Cohen

    by Series7

    To do the closing credits. The director is the BOMB at making amazing end credits, always much better then his films.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 9:36 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    "Everyone" doesn't feel that way. But lets be honest, 'Wanted' is NOT 'Watchmen'. And I'm not slighting 'Wanted' (the comic book), not one bit. But in terms of comic book importance, they're not even in the same galaxy.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 9:49 p.m. CST

    My #1 Must-See for 2009

    by grievenom

    Can't wait for Watchmen.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Don't think of it as a movie

    by jocutus

    Think of it as a two hour multi-million dollar advertisement for the book. I don't expect a trailer to have everything the movie will show, and I don't expect this movie to have everything the book had. But, hopefully, it will lead people to actually read the book. And maybe it will be a decent movie in itself. Here's hoping.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Has anyone weighed in on the fact that there's no squid?

    by Shaw

    curious to her peoples' reactions, if any

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:02 p.m. CST

    and by "her" i mean

    by Shaw


  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST

    I want the squid

    by Russman

    Squid Squid Squid!! Haters - suck it

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:27 p.m. CST

    Can ACE OF WANDS even read?

    by Massawyrm 1

    "It is a book I always thought MIGHT have been EVEN BETTER as a full blown literary novel". Only a complete idiot would assume that I am insulting the format it was told in, as most readers would understand that I thought the story was good enough to be considered LITERATURE. Tosser indeed. You don't disagree, you just wanted to look smart in talkback by name checking industry giants. Tool.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:32 p.m. CST


    by Series7

    Like a day after the first trailer for Watchmen came out that Watchmen sold more copies on one day then it had since it had been released?

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:34 p.m. CST


    by Series7

    When I am reading a comic and the writing it very good I don't even notice the picture/drawings. Sometimes I finish a really good comic and have to go back and look at the pictures. Its like a great foreign film, in that you don't even realize that the subtitles are there. But they add so much that you probably don't even realize.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 10:40 p.m. CST

    As far as major cuts

    by RipVanMarlowe

    I think we'll be OK when you consider how the background writings (i.e. Hollis's book, Dreiberg's journal, Veidt's interview) and the Black Freighter stuff won't be included in those 150-some minutes. I'm still cautiously optimistic, but I want to believe Snyder can make this work.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Not Excited...

    by symon

    Did the first 22 minutes really look like the Watchmen? That would be the first good news I've heard - because from the preview it looks like the Junior Watchmen at best. The actors are too young and Nite Owl is too thin (also too Batman). In terms of costume design it looks close to League of Extraordinary Gentleman. Ugh. Oh well, it will still be one of the best graphic novels of all time, no matter what they do to the movie...

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 11:27 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    lol Whoa dude. Most of us understood where you were coming from with that statement. And what Series7 said is most definitely true. It happened to me repeatedly with Sandman, and I'd often flip through Cerebus to look at the art first, then go back and read the text and/or dialogue, deconstructing the format in my own head, as Dave and Ger did while creating it.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 11:33 p.m. CST

    One more thing...

    by Jaka

    ...apologies, I've been really sick for over a week and awoke from my cold medicine induced stupor with a truckload of energy this afternoon.<br><br> As has been said MANY times in the various articles and write-ups about the 'Watchmen' film, the graphic novel will ALWAYS be there. And getting more people to read it will ALWAYS be a good thing, much the way the LOTR films re-introduced books as a whole (not just the LOTR books) to an entire generation raised on teh internets and the Mtv edit. What I don't understand is how ANYBODY could make up their mind about this film before having seen it. I felt the same way about the LOTR films. People were FAREAKINGUH! OUT! And for no good reason. AFTER this film is released, and possible the DVD, too, THEN you can decide if it sucks. But until then, you simply have nothing to base your hatred (and supposed boycott) on. I was as worried as anyone else that Tom Bombadil wasn't goingt to be in LOTR, but after having watched the extended versions about 25 times each, I totally understand. A book is a book. A comic book a comic book. And a film a film. Each should be given it's own room to grow and breath, and each should be judged on it's own merits, vs. being judged against each other. They simply aren't the same thing.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Massawyrm, THAT'S your logo. Stick with it.

    by BurnHollywood

    No shit...that's cool enough to paint on the side of a 70s van complete with sweet-ass Cragers and a waterbed inside (and I'm old enough to remember when this was actually cool).<p> Either that, or on the hood of a TransAm Firebird after you peel the giant chicken decal off (and I'm old enough to remember when that was cool, too).

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Alan Moore is an asshole

    by White Goodman

    He is. I love Watchmen, but man, that guy is a dick.

  • Dec. 19, 2008, 11:49 p.m. CST

    Vampire Chronicles

    by Poopfoot1980

    The Watchmen movie has Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles written all over it. On one hand, it could be Interview with the Vampire. There could be minor changes that make the movie more palatable to a wide audience without sacrificing the emotion and meaning of the book. On the other hand, it could be The Queen of the Damned, which took my love of the book, bent it over, and sodomized it with a pinecone dildo. Please, Zach Snyder, don't penetrate my anus with an uncomfortable melding of wood and latex.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 12:12 a.m. CST

    ^^^ lol

    by Jaka

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 12:12 a.m. CST

    ^^^ lol

    by Jaka

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:31 a.m. CST

    A literal adaptation of a book, novel (graphic or not) would be

    by moviemaniac-7

    Peter Jackson understood that (Bombadil) and Snyder understands it. You take the basic story and take the best elements and adapt it into a different medium. Do we really need the psychiatrist's private life in the movie? Maybe as a deleted scene on the DVD. Some stuff works on the page, other stuff works on the screen. No matter how brilliant this movie will be (and I am sure it will range from pretty good to awesome, given what I have seen), there will be a tsunami of backlash on these boards going after Snyder et. al, just because he couldn't live up to the fanboys' wet dreams of Watchman Might Have Been.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:32 a.m. CST

    ... a disaster

    by moviemaniac-7

    (I hate it when the board takes away half the subject line)

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:21 a.m. CST

    Wait, I don't get it...

    by Ravetin

    ...he's pre-bitching about how innaccurate it is but then says it's not moving fast enough turning 13 pages into 22 minutes? Anyway, i just kinda doubt that Snyder's smart enough. I have this feeling he likes it because it's a "dark superhero movie", completely glazing over the comic decontsruction antics.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:26 a.m. CST

    Massa, the Manhattenesque opening was nice, but...

    by onezeroone

    there shouldn't have been any 'will' in there, everything is present tense, every moment is now.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:59 a.m. CST


    by jedihillis

    Well, someone had to say it....

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Who the fuck cares when AVATAR hits theatres in 2009?

    by Motoko Kusanagi


  • Dec. 20, 2008, 4:36 a.m. CST

    "The Spirit" borrowing a shot from WATCHMEN?

    by brokenheadstuff

    PLEASE TELL ME I'M CRAZY.. i've read Watchmen a million times like the rest of you. i've seen and know the panel of the good Doctor getting 'sploded for the first time..(hold that thought) I'm also a Frank Miller fan -at least for his classic comic works, not quite sure how i feel about his treatment of the Spirit for his movie adaptation.. and I'LL BE DAMNED if while watching a trailer for the Spirit, i didn't see the exploding Jon Osterman panel in motion at the end of the spirit preview. I've seen the one from the Watchmen clips.. the real one.. but even THAT one didn't look AS close to the original as the one i just saw in the spirit preview. was it coincidence? too crazy.. Frank borrowing an image? kinda crazy... Me having too much to drink?? probably.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 4:56 a.m. CST

    22 minutes and the squid...

    by Spidermonkee

    But... it should NOT take that long to get through to Rorschach exiting the tunnel. If you watch the Watchmen motion comics, which is precisely word for word faithful, that's only about 8 minutes. They get through each chapter in 25 minutes. How much superfluous stuff is added?? As for the squid debate, my only concern is that in the book it's a psychic squid from outer space because it is a threat from outside our world that is needed to unite us. I get the impression that Snyder's ending has something to do with Dr. Manhattan(supported by the blueness of the explosion in the trailer), which it seems to me would unite the world against america.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 5:19 a.m. CST

    HEY ACE OF WANDS guess what...

    by brokenheadstuff

    go whack off somewhere else huh? some of us are tryin to have a little fun here. FUCK. some of you snotty douchebags really took those highschool beatings seriously huh? or is there some sort of award your monitor magically squirts out when you dissect a message like that? dude, i like comics too, but FUCK do you sound like an asshole.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 5:49 a.m. CST

    Moore's cuts are witty and inventive

    by G100

    They aren't a crutch nor are they an attempt for some kind of faux complexity. The story is complex.<p> <p>The world the story takes place in is evocative and memorable because it is imagined and described in great detail with an overarching narrative that stretches back to Hooded Justice, the inception of the Heroes and all that flows from that politicaly and culturaly in the alternate world he creates. Moore uses this narrative to feed into, but never overshadow, the main plot thread of the murder mystery which evolves into a vast conspiracy. The characters are never neglected either as the intercutting and layering in of their backstories is crucial to understand them and their motivations fully.<p> <P>Tell me how the funeral scene would have been improved by omitting the superb and completely justified flashbacks and cuts from the "mourning" characters to illustrate the Comedians actions and impact on each of them ? The non-linearity of Manhattan's story is another example where the flashback, jumpcut and fracturing of the narrative is in fact a crucial plot point.<p> <p>And running alongside for most of the Comic we have the parrallel story of the Tales of the Black Frieghter which is also intercut visually and thematically.<p> <p>All of this makes the story complex. Period. And complexity is hardly a sin.<p> <p>As David Simon said in an interview when asked if the complexity of the wire was far too offputting for the casual viewer, "Fuck the casual viewer." There are plenty of far less complicated stories out there if simplicity is what people crave.<p> <p>Of course I could always try for the illusion of intellectualism by calling Moore's work in one of the best regarded Comics ever written, "amatuer". But to be honest it would reek of self indulgent posturing particularly if I had nothing to back such an eccentric claim up other than a barely concealed pomposity and contempt for the man. Yeah I said it !!! Aren't I wonderfully "forthright" and "contrary".<p> <p>Many have now seen around 20 minutes or so of the Watchmen and none are calling it crap or an outright failure. Quite the oppostite mostly. Sure, there is some probably justified caution, like Massawyrm shows, but he isn't damning it yet.<p> <p>Contrast that with the collossaly obvious shitfest that was apparent within seconds of viewing the spirit clips.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 7:06 a.m. CST

    Alan Moore

    by Chishu_Ryu

    I believe a part of Mr. Moore's non-support of this film is that I think, as I think Mr. Moore thinks, that his Watchmen books are not only Moorish take on super-heroes in the late 20th century, but also a take on the medium of comics, super-hero comics, themselves. And much of that would get lost with a big studio multi-million dollar summer action movie. It's like trying to adapt a Mel Brooks movie to a comic book. Much of Brooks' films involve satire of movies within the style of the film itself i.e. the b&w cinematography of Young Frankenstein or the stylized crazed acting of Gene Wilder. Translate that into a comic book and you've lost the peculiar element which makes that movie work so well. It's the same thing with Moore's Watchmen. Kind of.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Ace of Wands

    by jackalcack

    I love Watchmen and absolutely worship David Simon and 'The Wire' and by no means am I the casual viewer, but when you start saying things like 'Go and have your fun and let us adults discuss the nature of art' you do yourself absolutely no favours on this site cos you just come off as embarassingly pretentious

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Cuts will be made. Hurm...

    by Lashlarue

    However, the film always stands on it's own. Imagine if Spielberg had the shark eat Brody at the end? Or Coppola had included that whole nurse love affair with breast reduction surgery in The Godfather? <p> Changes can be good.<p> But I agree on there being no need for slo-mo Matrix action sequences in this film.<p> The whole thing is really a character study, more than a plot driven story. Which is why the squid change isn't that big a deal. <p> .)(.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 7:53 a.m. CST

    you missed MY point, O Queen of Cocks

    by brokenheadstuff

    you sound like a douche. you obviously have a very large vocabulary, so i know its not the individual words you have a problem with. but like the guy that passed me on the way to work the other day is his moms Saturn Sky in the snow and ended up in the fucking ditch you're too busy stroking your FUCKINING EGO like a tiny little pecker with a barbie doll pink feathered scarf on it and fantasizing that your every word is a softball sized anal bead for your lipstick smeared gaping asshole... i better stop before you scratch your nylons on that pointy bee stinger of a boner you're getting. ANYWAYS you missed my point. i was not debating which of you was correct, only stating that you, the Ace of Wands, sounds... like a DOUCHEBAG. YES. the thing that is WATCHMEN is only as great as it is because of the medium which its on. BUTT (and i used two "t"s to get your attention back) i THINK what the man was trying to say is that even the story COMPONENT of the admittedly much larger work of art that WATCHMEN is, even if you strip away all that great stuff you feel you need to keep explaining to us commoners, if you were to STRIP it DOWN to JUST text, THAT little stripped down element would still be AWESOME enough to warrant the credit of being labeled GREAT LITERATURE. ...... I'm a humble man, and i know i could be wrong about all that. except the part about you having a small penis decorated in doll clothing accessories. THAT, Wand Ace, i would bet your mothers wasted uterus on. (or 20 bucks... I'm not much of a gambler). FUCK YOU and GOOD NIGHT!

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 8:02 a.m. CST

    Unlike Frank Miller...

    by Chishu_Ryu

    ...who's always been a wannabe filmmaker(even though he belongs in the comics industry) and borrowed a lot of cinematic-like techniques and story elements from other movies for his comics stories. Miller's comics stories are tailor made for movie adaptation. I think it's when he starts to actually write for movies that he gets into trouble. Alan Moore, on the other hand, knows his place, and humbly remains in the medium that is his strength...

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 8:08 a.m. CST

    jackalcack -!

    by brokenheadstuff

    "pretentious" ... THATS the word i was looking for. Oh well, i like the way I said it better anyhows... no offense good sir. You have a good night -dont drop the soap or FairyCard up there or he might try swordfighting one of your asshairs with his golfpencil pee-pin. ...i'm gonna be SOOOOOOOO hung over...

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 8:23 a.m. CST

    League of Extraordinary Expectations

    by sanzaru

    Excepting some of the more lugubrious metatextual sections, I've never really bought into the assertion that Watchmen is unfilmable. I know it's approaching utter sacrilege to say so, but I'm actually sort of looking forward to seeing how some things are streamlined for the movie. As Chishu_Ryu suggests, it's this "big studio multi-milllion dollar summer action movie" vibe that doesn't quite sit right with the source material. For those of you who are interested, this article lays out some nagging (and quite possibly superfluous) concerns:

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 8:52 a.m. CST

    A 'faithful' 300 movie would've been about half an hour long

    by PaulSC

    Frankly if adding one superfluous subplot and taking out a minor secondary character is a dealbreaker for you, you deserved to have a miserable time watching it.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 9:04 a.m. CST

    I find it funny that many...

    by mrfan

    still consider it to be a graphic novel when it is a comic book mini series put in tpb form. Obviously some people here don't know what a graphic novel is. Yet, they think they can call themselves fans of the genre.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Massa, I'm surprised you don't know how Snyder changed the endin

    by agentsands77

    Snyder's ending replaces the squid in this way: It's established earlier in this WATCHMEN adaptation that Dr. Manhattan and Adrian Veidt have been working together to find a way to artificially replicate Dr. Manhattan's unique energy signature. But Veidt uses this for his own purposes. The short story is that he frames Dr. Manhattan giving the earth a DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL-style ultimatum. How that works is, he fakes Dr. Manhattan speaking to the world and giving them the ultimatum that they better shape up or he'll make 'em shape up ("From this moment on--I'll be watching."), and then using Dr. Manhttan's unique energy blasts, takes out some cities (you can see this in the trailer). Essentially it's a spin on the Dr. Manhattan-as-God idea that's been floating throughout the novel. I don't think it's a bad idea at all, assuming Snyder gets it right, and in some ways makes significantly more sense than the squid. Anyway, your math was bad. 22 minutes of a 150-minute film is roughly 15% of the finished product, making it, in actuality, 3/20 of the way through the film. So your statistics are more than a bit misleading.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST


    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I think, besides ignorance, it's referred to by many as a graphic novel because that sounds more serious and impressive to them.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 11:59 a.m. CST

    One thing I DO know about superhero movies..

    by malificus that The Incredible Hulk stands up. I just rented it a few days ago and watched it again and not-only is it better paced the second time (don't ask me how), the damn thing had more cool action money shots than any other "superhero" movie I've seen in recent memory. None of the super-quick cuts or dingy night scenes where you can't even see anything that fucking Hulk SMASHED and smashed GOOD. Sorry about hijacking the Watchmen thread but jimminy that movie rocked and if you haven't seen it don't miss it even if you don't like the Hulk you'll really feel sympathy for Norton's Banner and by god I'd like to buy an adult-sized papoose and cling to Liv Tyler the rest of my days.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 12:54 p.m. CST

    who gives a shit

    by lopan

    i don't think i could be any less interested in this. i'll go see it because i like to go to the movies and watch shit blow up, but jesus titty fucking christ have people got their man panties bunched up their crack over a fucking comic book movie? relax.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST

    MrFan/Thunderbolt Ross

    by FearfulSymmetry

    I agree, I remember buying these when they came out and nobody was calling them anything other than a comic book back then. I loved the comics, if the movie sucks I could care less cause the comics will still be just as good. I think the movie is going to be great and I hope it's different in some ways, otherwise I'll just stay home and re-read it.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:42 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    If Akira Kurosawa were to make a film about Thermopylae and had access to modern CGI techniques, he would've made the same movie as Snyder.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:42 p.m. CST

    300 was great. style over substance isnt a bad thing

    by BMacSmith

    especially in art.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:49 p.m. CST

    when criticizing people for loving 300 and Predator,

    by BMacSmith

    why is it always the same insult? "you only like them because they both feature big, sweaty, muscle dudes. You must be some kinda gawd damned faggot! huhhuhuhuhuh" *drool* <p> fucking idiots.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:52 p.m. CST

    The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Stunned me. They even had the same tone/lighting scheme. You bought them completely taking place in the same universe.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Yeah, I don't buy the hate for that. You KNEW what it was from the trailers, if you still went it's your own fault.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:04 p.m. CST

    re: Incredible Hulk/Iron Man

    by sanzaru

    Did you notice they had pretty much the same story as well?

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:11 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I did.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:21 p.m. CST

    something to seriously consider and think about here fellas

    by BilboFett

    This is the only WATCHMEN movie we'll have. There could have been others, but there aren't, right? I mean... you could never have been born, but you were. Deal with it. This is it. Even if its not 100% faithful, and has some flaws (depending on who defines the flaws), its our WATCHMEN movie. We should be thankful and appreciate the fact that we have it. We can't kill ourselves over what might have been. I would focus more on the fact that this is a reality, and got done, instead of what we could have had. I for one think it would be absolutely no problem to make it a 3 hour movie. Give it that extra 30 mins to breathe and flesh out a tiny bit more characterization. But... probably not going to happen. Oh well. I still get 2.5 hours of a probably-truncated WATCHMEN. I think that rocks.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST

    I am predicting it right here everyone...

    by BilboFett

    WATCHMEN is a colossal flop with a box office return that even hordes of fanboys can't help, or... its a huge monster hit that came out of nowhere, basically by word of mouth. "Did you hear about that WATCHMEN movie? It's supposed to have a great story.. really neat characters. Not a typical superhero movie man.. go see it! You'll be surprised". AND! If its a huge hit... I bet theres MASSIVE MASSIVE pressure to make a sequel, and it will divide us almost perfectly down the middle.. 1/2 will want one (like the people in support of the in-between-Hobbit-and-FOTR movie) and the other 1/2 will think its blasphemy. Obviously Alan Moore would be totally against it. Zak Snyder will be freaking out trying to figure out what to do. Even worse, if he doesn't do it, some dipshit director will, and it will probably be a DTV affair that we'll end up seeing late night on HBO2. That is unless they do a prequel? -----DISCUSS

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Ace of Wands

    by Jaka

    Art is subjective and personal, and it's "nature" is not going to be defined in an AICN talkback about the 'Watchmen' film adaptation. What point are you trying to prove exactly? What part of EVERYONE HERE getting it and just not caring do you not understand? There is a vast difference between discussing disparate opinions and belittling others because you feel yours is superior. You should really work on figuring that out if you expect anyone to take you seriously.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    agentsands77, re: math

    by BilboFett

    If it was 15% of the movie, then it would be a little over 1/6th of the movie. There's no way 13 pages is 1/6th of the book. There's a huge problem there I think.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    p0llk4t, literature rankings for WATCHMEN from official sources

    by BilboFett

    "one of the 100 best english-language novels from 1923 to present" -Time magazine. "One of the 50 best novels of the last 25 years" -Entertainment Weekly. It was an Eisner Award Winner. A Hugo Award Winner. "Watchmen revinvented what was possible" -Chicago Sun Times. "No collection should be without it." -Library Journal. "The greatest piece of popular fiction ever produced." -Damon Lindelof, co-creator of LOST.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Why bother Bilbofett ?

    by G100

    You aren't going to change the same old ignorant wank spouting from the mouths from those who keep infesting Watchmen talkbacks. We got it the first 100 times they posted the same thing TBH.<p> <p>The TPB of the Comic is doing HUGE sales and it ain't going anywhere.<p> <p>I myself don't really give a fuck if there will always be people who will never regard Watchmen or indeed any Comics as legitimate literature or not. I'm fairly sure Moving Pictures and TV were widely regarded as degenerate and unworthy of serious cultural contemplation not THAT long ago (culturaly speaking) either.<p> <p>I've said it many times before nobody NEEDS to like Watchmen. But don't act so fucking surprised that there are those who do and might actually marshall arguments instead of baseless invective to say why.<p> <p>Though I also wouldn't place too much faith in Box Office "predictions" this far out either negative or positive.<p> <p>But I'll repeat the fact that those who have at least seen a good 20min or so clearly aren't shitting on it from a great hieght so it's not going to be the unmitigate disaster some here were, and clearly are, hoping it would be.<p> <p>EVEN if it MIGHT actually eventually disappoint in the end.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Ace of Wands

    by Jaka

    Rules are made to be broken; techniques can be changed, bettered; some things can NEVER be taught or learned, and the BEST art often comes from those places. <br><br> Again, what part of most of us (I will not speak for everyone) understanding what you are trying to get across are you missing? What part of most of us disagreeing with your interpretation of mass' comments do you not understand? You keep repeating the same thing, over and over, as if we're all just going to sigh and relent with a, "oh golly gee - he keeps saying that so he must be right". And how exactly whould your last post, which is badly written, confusing and near contradictory, prove mass to be a "comic snob"? Wouldn't that make him a novel snob? In short, stop trying to make yourself look intellectually above the rest of this talkback. Because all you're succeeding in doing is making yourself look like a pretentious know it all, which is exactly why most people hate art snobs to begin with. <br><br> Also, if the film has "frak all to do with it", then why are you in talkback about said film trying to prove some non-existent point? Nobody else here took mass' comment as a slight against humanity, or art, or even 'Watchmen'. Just you.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST


    by krushjudgement

    Alan Moore is humble?

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 3:50 p.m. CST


    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I think you COULD be less interested. Obviously you're interested enough to read the article and post in the TB. That's way more interested than most people. Geek.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Watchmen? is that the one with the giant intergalactic platypus?

    by Xiphos_2

    and the big blueman group looking gay dude that shows his junk all the time? Yeah that funny book seemed alright.<p>Cue the nerd alert siren in 3...2...1

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Ace of Wands, you pompous douche

    by GilbertRSmith

    I'm not going to go see Watchmen, in theaters or on DVD, because it's not the comic. The comic is perfect, and there is no need to adapt it into any other format at all. There. Now I'm the most pretentious jerkoff on the talkback. You've already confessed you will see Watchmen, so I win by default. What's more, I've read Understanding Comics, as well as Reinventing Comics (which blows) and Making Comics (which is very helpful, but no Understanding Comics). I'm also a comic artist, and I collect obscure underground Comix (ever hear of Rory Hayes? No, you haven't, because I'm better at comics than you are), and I have a signed copy of EAT IT! A Cookbook. Do you know what that is? Of course you don't, but it's a cookbook illustrated by R. Crumb. Now then, go away, and leave the useless cock flapping and predictable name dropping (You said Scott McCloud four times, misspelling his first name every single time) to the big boys.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Anyone else find it ironic that as well as McCloud Understands C

    by malificus

    ..that ZOT! blew so bad?

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Kinda like the way everyone sucks Danny Elfman's member..

    by malificus

    ..over his unbearably shitty soundtracks but Oingo Boingo was such a failure.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Fuck Danny Elfman

    by GilbertRSmith

    And yeah, as much as I learned from Understanding Comics, I'm not a big fan of McCloud's narrative works. And while we're on that subject, anyone who calls Understanding Comics the best comic ever is just bragging about the fact that they (LOL) UNDERSTAND comics. Here's why Understanding Comics isn't the best comic ever: It doesn't tell a story, and comics are primarily a storytelling medium. Understanding Comics is great, but it is not emotionally involving, it is merely perfectly crafted. Imagine if Citizen Kane had no story, and instead, was Orson Welles talking about making movies. It'd be great, but only someone with no REAL respect for the medium would call it the greatest movie ever.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Watchmen's being integral to the format

    by GilbertRSmith

    ...Is common knowledge, anyways. If that's your higher ground over the uninformed, it's pretty shaky. You may as well tell us that Wizard of Oz TOTALLY synchs up with Dark Side of the Moon. You know how you can tell Watchmen is symmetrical? THE MIDDLE CHAPTER IS ENTITLED SYMMETRY. What they ought to do is use Watchmen as a touchstone, and take the general aesthetic and thematic concepts and play those into a movie. Rather than doing a page for page remake of a comic deconstructing superheroes, do a movie deconstructing MOVIE heroes, like a James Bond type. Make the first shot the same length as the last, etc. Of course, originality is a little too much to ask for in this or any other Hollywood era.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Sorry Ace

    by sanzaru

    GilbertRSmith wins. The end.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 8:19 p.m. CST

    I knew it

    by GilbertRSmith

    I knew being a pretentious jerkoff would get me places someday! Now I've finally won a meaningless argument on the internet! Long live pseudo-intellectualism and common knowledge parading itself as insight!

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 9:27 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    We all will!

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 9:44 p.m. CST

    an IGNORE DOUCHEBAGS option would be nice too

    by brokenheadstuff

    please castrate yourself. or pour cement in your vagina. whichever applies, then do both to your parents just for good measure. pretty please with sugar on top? be proud that you've gotten more typing out of me than any article i've read on here in years.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 10:01 p.m. CST


    by brokenheadstuff

    piss anybody off? good. I know it was a series collected in a trade. and i'd bet that DAMN NEAR everyone that referrers to it as a g.n. also know for a fact that it is a Trade..those that follow comics anyway -which are the people you were bitching about (i cant remenber your name and i dont feel like scrolling to find it because I dont want to accidentally read another one of Ace WandTards posts without my brain puking) what the fuck was i talking about... OH YEA even DAVE fucking GIBBONS has even called it a "graphic novel" many many times that i can remember reading - and i think he knows its not, because he clearly also remembers drawing each fucking issue - if HE is gonna give in and go with the flow, you should just fucking deal with the anger it creates inside of you because someone else used a different fucking word that you would have. and I wouldn't have to waste my anger on You instead of that OTHER self masturbatory snooty little fucking prick Ace of Anal Wanking Wands. end scene.

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 10:03 p.m. CST

    i hope some of that made sense..

    by brokenheadstuff

    but i really dont give a fuck - now back to the real question.. anybody besides me and that other guy see the spirit/osterman thing?

  • Dec. 20, 2008, 10:23 p.m. CST

    KurtLockwood, thanks for being just

    by brokenheadstuff

    as crazy as i am. or as observant as i am. i'll go look at it again after i'm done powerwashing Ace of Wands tonsils with my urine. might take a while, he really wants them clean!

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 12:01 a.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack, you are my most

    by BilboFett

    favorite next to Dickblood. Just an FYI.

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 2:48 a.m. CST

    It's as if a million nerds cried out, and were suddenly silenced

    by samsquanch

    opening day. <p> Or not, I can love me some adaptation, I can handle no squid, as long as they pay homage to it somehow, and come up with something that embodies the insanity of it, the spirit, the POINT of Veidt's plan. <p> All I know is that sometimes, all adaptations do is fucking cut the balls off a great story, in a world already filled with neutered, boring drivel. PLEASE don't fuck this up.

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 4:28 a.m. CST

    If people are really that ganked about the lack of squid..

    by malificus

    ..they should bring their own, smuggled in their coats and leave them lovingly draped over their theater seats in protest. The resultant horrific screams of the theater workers will mirror the dying psychic scream of the comic book squid, thereby providing the all-important symmetry the fanboys are on about. Everybody's happy know..Alan Moore, but that fucker's NEVER satisfied.

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 9:34 a.m. CST

    I wrote a great post

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    But it disappeared. Sorry everyone, I know that's a real tragedy. I'll try and make it up to you. Someday.

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 6:25 p.m. CST

    ace of wands

    by Turingtestee

    Damn, beat me too it.

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 6:31 p.m. CST

    V for Vendetta

    by whofan71

    was not exact, page for page translation of the book, but still pleasantly suprised me by being as close as it was. It worked because it captured the spirit of the book. If the Watchmen movie is able to stay faithful to the spirit of the book, I can forgive a few deviations from the book.

  • Dec. 21, 2008, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Giving credit to Wyrm's cynical eye.

    by Sithtastic

    Well, I certainly will hand it to Massa. He does keep a cynical eye as to the material and in area of the net where mere pronouncements of "sucks/rules" are law, he maintains at respect for the source material while at the same time giving legitimate reasons why we might be disappointed with the adaptation and that's to be commended. To be fair, I disagree with him on 300, but having read the script for this, I too am uncertain whether the Watchmen will live up to the hype.

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Bilbo Fett

    by Posthumos1

    Watchmen will have to run under 2:40. Reason is, it is released in IMAX. The IMAX prints for Dark Knight Ran at 2:36 with trailers. The film was less than an inch and a half from the edge of the platters on IMAX's MPX system. The MPX system is probably now the most wide released IMAX projector and the pring has to fit the unit. I would bet they are pushing really hard to have this movie in at 2:30 on the button. IMAX and the studios will definitely want to run trailers for Star Trek, Harry Potter 6, and perhaps Ice Age 3, on the front. Logistics will definitely have a say in the film's length. I have faith it will be a solid hit though. Dunno why you guys are worried. I can't wait for Star Trek either. JJ Abrams is gonna rock that one HUGE! Star Trek shot from a guy who was into Star Wars. The trailer looks awesome in IMAX.

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 3:06 a.m. CST

    The Ending is the One Fungible Element

    by emvan

    The contemporary reaction was that the book as a whole was impossibly brilliant but the ending (echoing Theodore Sturgeon's "Unite and Conquer" and The Outer Limit's "The Architects of Fear" all too strongly) was "meh" and the only weakness of sorts. It is also the one element of the story that might need updating because our concerns are different now from what they were 20 years ago.<br><br> I'll only bitch is the ending is weaker--not if it's merely different.

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Finally someone whom isn't jacking off to all things Watchmen

    by Nabster

    300 was an absolute pile of trash, eye candy for ten year olds, so its refreshing for a writer to be skeptical of Watchmen for once.

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Marley and ME...

    by Kid Z's Hollywood, the dog ALWAYS dies! In horror films, when people are looking for the monster, a cat always jumps out of a cupboard, closet, dark corner and hisses right before the monster kills someone. In action films, the villain's thugs are armed with massive firepower, but can never even hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, whilst the hero can bust a cap into everyone without even aiming. In dog movies, the dog always dies! Also, kids are way tougher than parents give them credit for, they can handle a dog dying. They may not be able to handle a crappy Jennifer Aniston/Owen Wilson movie, however. (I know I couldn't!)

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 10:47 a.m. CST


    by Kid Z

    ...Really? I always figured if 300 were a person, it'd be Ted Nugent (even more not a compliment!)

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 12:21 p.m. CST

    ATTN: Posthumos1 re: IMAX

    by BilboFett

    Um, they edited down, what was it.. episode III, or something, to be able to show all of it in IMAX? I'd rather have a longer WATCHMEN in existence than having to trim part of the story so we can all see it in a large format. It's not shot in IMAX anyway. Maybe we'll get it a bit longer in a director's cut edition on home video. Of course that will be the double dip or triple dip arriving sometime in 2010.

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST

    It doesn't look bad. I will see it.

    by mrfan

    Didn't care for the comic books as much as others. Still, I think it will be a fun time.

  • Dec. 22, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    A novel can be serialized

    by DennisMM

    Serialization does not mean a story cannot be a novel. A number of Dickens's novels were serialized in popular magazines, as this gave him steady income while writing and allowed the public to enjoy the man's novels while they were in progress. He wrote to tight deadlines, too. Any number of science fiction novels were serialized in the big sf mags from the '40s into the late '60s. They were collected later and remained novels. Alan Moore wrote "Watchmen" from detailed story notes. He had the character arcs mapped out and all the major plot points pinned down. Because of his writing habits, he and Gibbons were scrabbling up to deadline the way Dickens had, but it wasn't because they'd lost track of where the book was going - they were simply writing in a serial format while Moore tried to continue several other projects - including wrapping up Swamp Thing, writing volume 3 of Halo Jones and working on book 3 of Miracleman. <P> <P> Watchmen was serialized because that's what comics companies did in 1986-1987; Serialization was where the money was for the company and the creators, whereas today collections and OGNs are the real moneymakers. Tell me - how many of you would pay $50 for a 400-page comic book (which is all GNs are, no matter what you may care to think), sight unseen, from a writer working in a form in which he had little experience, featuring characters you'd never heard of or who seemed vaguely familiar at best? Damned few, I'd bet. <P> <P> Some trade paperbacks are just issues pasted together. Some are graphic novels. Watchmen is a graphic novel as certainly as is Maus, another serial pasted together into book form.