Cool News
Golden Globes Hail MAMMA MIA But Snub THE DARK KNIGHT!!
I am – Hercules!!
Before jumping to the biggest blue box below, have a look at these best-picture choices from critics associations respected by actual journalists:
"Milk": New York Film Critics
"WALL-E": Los Angeles Film Critics
"Slumdog Millionaire": D.C. Area Film Critics
Critics Choice Awards nominees:
"The Changeling"
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
"The Dark Knight"
"Doubt"
"Frost/Nixon"
"Milk"
"The Reader"
"Slumdog Millioniare"
"WALL-E"
"The Wrestler"
Now.
Will the Hollywood Foreign Press Association's latest slate of nominees, announced today, mollify the legions who consider the Golden Globes bullshit awards, publicist tools bestowed by cabdrivers and waiters?
Some appraisals of the Globes:
“Never mind that the [Golden Globe] is considered a joke, given the dubious credentials of the 90-odd foreign journalists who pick the winners.”
-- Peter Travers, Rolling Stone
“Respect? Not much, especially from other journalists, who have publicly called [the Golden Globes voters] moochers, boneheads and bottom-feeders.”
-- Andy Seiler, USA Today
“[The Golden Globe voters are] freeloaders who would sell their votes for a vodka tonic and cross the Alps for a hot dog.”
-- Film historian Aljean Harmetz
“[The Golden Globe voters are] essentially just bottom-feeders around the industry, who've somehow been inflated to this point where their judgment is supposed to be very, very important.”
-- John Powers, L.A. Weekly
“[The Golden Globes represent a case of] let's sell the public a lie."
-- Producer Michael Phillips
"The Globes have long been the entertainment industry’s dirty little secret. At the heart of the con is the Hollywood Foreign Press Assn., the tiny, cliquish group of foreign entertainment journalists – and I use each of those terms liberally – whose votes determine the winners.
The members of the association are not, generally speaking, film experts (like the people who judge the National Society of Film Critics awards) nor are they members of the creative community (like those who give out the Oscars). They’re not even representatives of prominent foreign publications, like Le Monde or the Guardian or Haaretz.
Only a handful are full-time journalists; the rest are freelancers for mostly obscure publications, and some are simply hanging on for the parties and movie stars. To maintain their status in the organization, they need only write four articles a year."
-- Sharon Waxman, The Los Angeles Times
Read the rest of Waxman's illuminating 2008 piece on the Globes here.
"Who cares?" you whine. "Nobody pays attention to any of these bullshit awards shows!"
Ah. But if you're wholly uninterested in what these "journalists" think, then why click on this post?
Now, if you still care what they think, have a gander at the Globes' nominees, 100%-free of a best-picture nomination for "The Dark Knight":
FILM
BEST FEATURE - DRAMA
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" - Warner Bros. Pictures and Paramount Pictures; Warner Bros. Pictures and Paramount Pictures
"Frost/Nixon" - Imagine Entertainment, Working Title, Studio Canal; Universal Pictures
"The Reader" - Mirage Enterprises; The Weinstein Company
"Revolutionary Road" - An Evamere Entertainment BBC Films Neal Street Production; DreamWorks Pictures in Association with BBC Films and Paramount Vantage
"Slumdog Millionaire" -Fox Searchlight Pictures and Warner Bros.; Fox Searchlight Pictures and Warner Bros.
BEST FEATURE - COMEDY
"Burn After Reading" - Working Title/Releasing Company; Focus Features in association with Studio Canal
"Happy-Go-Lucky" - Summit Entertainment, Film4, Ingenious Film Partners, Miramax Films; Miramax Films
"In Bruges" - Blueprint Pictures; Focus Features
"Mamma Mia!" - Relativity Media, Playtone, Littlestar; Universal Pictures
"Vicky Cristina Barcelona" - Mediapro; The Weinstein Company
ACTOR - DRAMA
Leonardo DiCaprio - "Revolutionary Road"
Frank Langella - "Frost/Nixon"
Sean Penn - "Milk"
Brad Pitt - "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
Mickey Rouke - "The Wrestler"
ACTRESS - DRAMA
Anne Hathaway - "Rachel Getting Married"
Angelina Jolie - "Changeling"
Meryl Streep - "Doubt"
Kristin Scott Thomas - "I've Loved You So Long"
Kate Winslet - "Revolutionary Road"
ACTOR - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Javier Bardem - "Vicky Cristina Barcelona"
Colin Farrell - "In Bruges"
James Franco - "Pineapple Express"
Brendan Gleeson - "In Bruges"
Dustin Hoffman - "Last Chance Harvey"
ACTRESS - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Rebecca Hall - "Vicky Cristina Barcelona"
Sally Hawkins - "Happy-Go-Lucky"
Frances McDormand - "Burn After Reading"
Meryl Streep - "Mamma Mia!"
Emma Thompson - "Last Chance Harvey"
DIRECTOR – MOTION PICTURE
Danny Boyle - "Slumdog Millionaire"
Stephen Daldry -"The Reader"
David Fincher -"The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button"
Ron Howard - "Frost/Nixon"
Sam Mendes -"Revolutionary Road"
SUPPORTING ACTOR
Tom Cruise - "Tropic Thunder"
Robert Downey Jr. - "Tropic Thunder"
Ralph Fiennes - "The Duchess"
Philip Seymour Hoffman - "Doubt"
Heath Ledger - "The Dark Knight"
SUPPORTING ACTRESS
Amy Adams - "Doubt"
Penelope Cruz - "Vicky Cristina Barcelona"
Viola Davis - "Doubt"
Marisa Tomei - "The Wrestler"
Kate Winslet - "The Reader"
SCREENPLAY - MOTION PICTURE
Simon Beaufoy - "Slumdog Millionaire"
David Hare - "The Reader"
Peter Morgan - "Frost/Nixon"
Eric Roth - "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
John Patrick Shanley - "Doubt"
FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM
"The Baader Meinhof Complex" ("Der Baader Meinhof Komplex")(Germany) - Constantin Film Produktion GmbH; Summit Entertainment, LLC
"Everlasting Moments" ("Maria larssons eviga ögonblick") (Sweden) - Final Cut Productions Aps; IFC Films
"Gomorrah" ("Gomorra") (Italy) - Fandango; IFC Films
"I've Loved You So Long" ("Il y a longtemps que je t’aime") (France) - UGC YM/UGC Images/France 3 Cinema/Integral Film; Sony Pictures Classics
"Waltz with Bashir" (Israel) - Bridgit Folman Film Gang/Les Films D'Ici/Razor Films/Arte France/ITVS International; Sony Pictures
ANIMATED FEATURE FILM
"Bolt" - Walt Disney Pictures; Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures
"Kung Fu Panda" - DreamWorks Animation SKG; Paramount Pictures
"Wall-E" - Walt Disney Pictures and Pixar Animation Studios; Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures
BEST SCORE
Alexandre Desplat - "The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button"
Clint Eastwood - "Changeling"
James Newton Howard - "Defiance"
A. R. Rahman - "Slumdog Millionaire"
Hans Zimmer - "Frost/Nixon"
BEST ORIGINAL SONG
"Down To Earth" from "Wall-E" - Music By: Peter Gabriel, Thomas Newman; Lyrics By: Peter Gabriel
"Gran Torino" from "Gran Torino" - Music By: Clint Eastwood, Jamie Cullum, Kyle Eastwood, Michael Stevens; Lyrics By: Kyle Eastwood, Michael Stevens
"I Thought I Lost You" from "Bolt" - Music & Lyrics By: Miley Cyrus, Jeffrey Steele
"Once In A Lifetime" from "Cadillac Records"
Music & Lyrics By: Beyoncé Knowles, Amanda Ghost, Scott Mcfarnon, Ian Dench, James Dring, Jody Street
"The Wrestler" from "The Wrestler" - Music & Lyrics By: Bruce Springsteen
TELEVISION
TELEVISION SERIES - DRAMA
"Dexter" (Showtime) - Showtime/John Goldwyn Productions/The Colleton Company/Clyde Phillips Productions
"House" (Fox) - Universal Media Studios In Association With Heel And Toe Films, Shore Z Productions And Bad Hat Harry Productions
"In Treatment" (HBO) - Sheleg, Closest To The Hole Productions In Association With Hbo Entertainment
"Mad Men" (AMC) - Lionsgate Television
"True Blood" (HBO) - Your Face Goes Here Productions In Association With Hbo Entertainment
TELEVISION SERIES - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
"30 Rock" - Universal Media Studios in association with Broadway Video and Little
Stranger Inc.
"Californication" - Showtime Presents in association with Aggressive Mediocrity, And Then...
"Entourage" - Leverage and Closest to the Hole Productions in association with HBO Entertainment
"The Office" - Deedle Dee Productions, Reveille LLC, Universal Media Studios
"Weeds" - Lionsgate Television
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A TELEVISION SERIES - DRAMA
Gabriel Byrne - "In Treatment
Michael C. Hall - "Dexter
Jon Hamm - "Mad Men
Hugh Laurie - "House
Jonathan Rhys Meyers - "The Tudors
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A TELEVISION SERIES - DRAMA
Sally Field - "Brothers And Sisters"
Mariska Hargitay - "Law And Order: Special Victims Unit"
January Jones - "Mad Men"
Anna Paquin - "True Blood"
Kyra Sedgwick - "The Closer"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A TELEVISION SERIES -COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Christina Applegate - "Samantha Who?"
America Ferrera - "Ugly Betty"
Tina Fey - "30 Rock"
Debra Messing - "The Starter Wife"
Mary-Louise Parker - "Weeds"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A TELEVISION SERIES - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Alec Baldwin - "30 Rock"
Steve Carell - "The Office"
Kevin Connelly - "Entourage"
David Duchovny - "Californication"
Tony Shalhoub - "Monk"
MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
"A Raisin in the Sun" - Sony Pictures Television, Storyline Entertainment and Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment
"Bernard and Doris" - Trigger Street Independent Productions in association with Little Bird and Chicago Films and HBO Films
"Cranford" - A Co-Production of BBC and WGBH Boston.
"John Adams" - Playtone in association with HBO Films
"Recount" - Spring Creek/Mirage Productions in association with Trigger Street Productions, Everyman Pictures and HBO Films
BEST PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Ralph Fiennes - "Bernard and Doris"
Paul Giamatti - "John Adams"
Kevin Spacey - " Recount"
Kiefer Sutherland - "24: Redemption"
Tom Wilkinson - "Recount"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Judi Dench - "Cranford"
Catherine Keener - "An American Crime"
Laura Linney - "John Adams"
Shirley Maclaine - "Coco Chanel"
Susan Sarandon - "Bernard And Doris"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE IN A SERIES, MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Eileen Atkins - "Cranford"
Laura Dern - "Recount"
Melissa George - "In Treatment"
Rachel Griffiths - "Brothers And Sisters"
Dianne Wiest - "In Treatment"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE IN A SERIES, MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Neil Patrick Harris - "How I Met Your Mother"
Denis Leary - "Recount"
Jeremy Piven - "Entourage"
Blair Underwood - "In Treatment"
Tom Wilkinson - "John Adams"
-- Peter Travers, Rolling Stone
-- Andy Seiler, USA Today
-- Film historian Aljean Harmetz
-- John Powers, L.A. Weekly
-- Producer Michael Phillips
The members of the association are not, generally speaking, film experts (like the people who judge the National Society of Film Critics awards) nor are they members of the creative community (like those who give out the Oscars). They’re not even representatives of prominent foreign publications, like Le Monde or the Guardian or Haaretz.
Only a handful are full-time journalists; the rest are freelancers for mostly obscure publications, and some are simply hanging on for the parties and movie stars. To maintain their status in the organization, they need only write four articles a year."
-- Sharon Waxman, The Los Angeles Times
BEST FEATURE - DRAMA
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" - Warner Bros. Pictures and Paramount Pictures; Warner Bros. Pictures and Paramount Pictures
"Frost/Nixon" - Imagine Entertainment, Working Title, Studio Canal; Universal Pictures
"The Reader" - Mirage Enterprises; The Weinstein Company
"Revolutionary Road" - An Evamere Entertainment BBC Films Neal Street Production; DreamWorks Pictures in Association with BBC Films and Paramount Vantage
"Slumdog Millionaire" -Fox Searchlight Pictures and Warner Bros.; Fox Searchlight Pictures and Warner Bros.
BEST FEATURE - COMEDY
"Burn After Reading" - Working Title/Releasing Company; Focus Features in association with Studio Canal
"Happy-Go-Lucky" - Summit Entertainment, Film4, Ingenious Film Partners, Miramax Films; Miramax Films
"In Bruges" - Blueprint Pictures; Focus Features
"Mamma Mia!" - Relativity Media, Playtone, Littlestar; Universal Pictures
"Vicky Cristina Barcelona" - Mediapro; The Weinstein Company
ACTOR - DRAMA
Leonardo DiCaprio - "Revolutionary Road"
Frank Langella - "Frost/Nixon"
Sean Penn - "Milk"
Brad Pitt - "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
Mickey Rouke - "The Wrestler"
ACTRESS - DRAMA
Anne Hathaway - "Rachel Getting Married"
Angelina Jolie - "Changeling"
Meryl Streep - "Doubt"
Kristin Scott Thomas - "I've Loved You So Long"
Kate Winslet - "Revolutionary Road"
ACTOR - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Javier Bardem - "Vicky Cristina Barcelona"
Colin Farrell - "In Bruges"
James Franco - "Pineapple Express"
Brendan Gleeson - "In Bruges"
Dustin Hoffman - "Last Chance Harvey"
ACTRESS - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Rebecca Hall - "Vicky Cristina Barcelona"
Sally Hawkins - "Happy-Go-Lucky"
Frances McDormand - "Burn After Reading"
Meryl Streep - "Mamma Mia!"
Emma Thompson - "Last Chance Harvey"
DIRECTOR – MOTION PICTURE
Danny Boyle - "Slumdog Millionaire"
Stephen Daldry -"The Reader"
David Fincher -"The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button"
Ron Howard - "Frost/Nixon"
Sam Mendes -"Revolutionary Road"
SUPPORTING ACTOR
Tom Cruise - "Tropic Thunder"
Robert Downey Jr. - "Tropic Thunder"
Ralph Fiennes - "The Duchess"
Philip Seymour Hoffman - "Doubt"
Heath Ledger - "The Dark Knight"
SUPPORTING ACTRESS
Amy Adams - "Doubt"
Penelope Cruz - "Vicky Cristina Barcelona"
Viola Davis - "Doubt"
Marisa Tomei - "The Wrestler"
Kate Winslet - "The Reader"
SCREENPLAY - MOTION PICTURE
Simon Beaufoy - "Slumdog Millionaire"
David Hare - "The Reader"
Peter Morgan - "Frost/Nixon"
Eric Roth - "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
John Patrick Shanley - "Doubt"
FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM
"The Baader Meinhof Complex" ("Der Baader Meinhof Komplex")(Germany) - Constantin Film Produktion GmbH; Summit Entertainment, LLC
"Everlasting Moments" ("Maria larssons eviga ögonblick") (Sweden) - Final Cut Productions Aps; IFC Films
"Gomorrah" ("Gomorra") (Italy) - Fandango; IFC Films
"I've Loved You So Long" ("Il y a longtemps que je t’aime") (France) - UGC YM/UGC Images/France 3 Cinema/Integral Film; Sony Pictures Classics
"Waltz with Bashir" (Israel) - Bridgit Folman Film Gang/Les Films D'Ici/Razor Films/Arte France/ITVS International; Sony Pictures
ANIMATED FEATURE FILM
"Bolt" - Walt Disney Pictures; Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures
"Kung Fu Panda" - DreamWorks Animation SKG; Paramount Pictures
"Wall-E" - Walt Disney Pictures and Pixar Animation Studios; Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures
BEST SCORE
Alexandre Desplat - "The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button"
Clint Eastwood - "Changeling"
James Newton Howard - "Defiance"
A. R. Rahman - "Slumdog Millionaire"
Hans Zimmer - "Frost/Nixon"
BEST ORIGINAL SONG
"Down To Earth" from "Wall-E" - Music By: Peter Gabriel, Thomas Newman; Lyrics By: Peter Gabriel
"Gran Torino" from "Gran Torino" - Music By: Clint Eastwood, Jamie Cullum, Kyle Eastwood, Michael Stevens; Lyrics By: Kyle Eastwood, Michael Stevens
"I Thought I Lost You" from "Bolt" - Music & Lyrics By: Miley Cyrus, Jeffrey Steele
"Once In A Lifetime" from "Cadillac Records"
Music & Lyrics By: Beyoncé Knowles, Amanda Ghost, Scott Mcfarnon, Ian Dench, James Dring, Jody Street
"The Wrestler" from "The Wrestler" - Music & Lyrics By: Bruce Springsteen
TELEVISION
TELEVISION SERIES - DRAMA
"Dexter" (Showtime) - Showtime/John Goldwyn Productions/The Colleton Company/Clyde Phillips Productions
"House" (Fox) - Universal Media Studios In Association With Heel And Toe Films, Shore Z Productions And Bad Hat Harry Productions
"In Treatment" (HBO) - Sheleg, Closest To The Hole Productions In Association With Hbo Entertainment
"Mad Men" (AMC) - Lionsgate Television
"True Blood" (HBO) - Your Face Goes Here Productions In Association With Hbo Entertainment
TELEVISION SERIES - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
"30 Rock" - Universal Media Studios in association with Broadway Video and Little
Stranger Inc.
"Californication" - Showtime Presents in association with Aggressive Mediocrity, And Then...
"Entourage" - Leverage and Closest to the Hole Productions in association with HBO Entertainment
"The Office" - Deedle Dee Productions, Reveille LLC, Universal Media Studios
"Weeds" - Lionsgate Television
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A TELEVISION SERIES - DRAMA
Gabriel Byrne - "In Treatment
Michael C. Hall - "Dexter
Jon Hamm - "Mad Men
Hugh Laurie - "House
Jonathan Rhys Meyers - "The Tudors
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A TELEVISION SERIES - DRAMA
Sally Field - "Brothers And Sisters"
Mariska Hargitay - "Law And Order: Special Victims Unit"
January Jones - "Mad Men"
Anna Paquin - "True Blood"
Kyra Sedgwick - "The Closer"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A TELEVISION SERIES -COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Christina Applegate - "Samantha Who?"
America Ferrera - "Ugly Betty"
Tina Fey - "30 Rock"
Debra Messing - "The Starter Wife"
Mary-Louise Parker - "Weeds"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A TELEVISION SERIES - COMEDY OR MUSICAL
Alec Baldwin - "30 Rock"
Steve Carell - "The Office"
Kevin Connelly - "Entourage"
David Duchovny - "Californication"
Tony Shalhoub - "Monk"
MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
"A Raisin in the Sun" - Sony Pictures Television, Storyline Entertainment and Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment
"Bernard and Doris" - Trigger Street Independent Productions in association with Little Bird and Chicago Films and HBO Films
"Cranford" - A Co-Production of BBC and WGBH Boston.
"John Adams" - Playtone in association with HBO Films
"Recount" - Spring Creek/Mirage Productions in association with Trigger Street Productions, Everyman Pictures and HBO Films
BEST PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Ralph Fiennes - "Bernard and Doris"
Paul Giamatti - "John Adams"
Kevin Spacey - " Recount"
Kiefer Sutherland - "24: Redemption"
Tom Wilkinson - "Recount"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Judi Dench - "Cranford"
Catherine Keener - "An American Crime"
Laura Linney - "John Adams"
Shirley Maclaine - "Coco Chanel"
Susan Sarandon - "Bernard And Doris"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE IN A SERIES, MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Eileen Atkins - "Cranford"
Laura Dern - "Recount"
Melissa George - "In Treatment"
Rachel Griffiths - "Brothers And Sisters"
Dianne Wiest - "In Treatment"
PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE IN A SERIES, MINI-SERIES OR MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION
Neil Patrick Harris - "How I Met Your Mother"
Denis Leary - "Recount"
Jeremy Piven - "Entourage"
Blair Underwood - "In Treatment"
Tom Wilkinson - "John Adams"
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he played the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude .....
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"You're an inanimate fucking object!!"
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Seriously, did these fuckers even look at any Shield episode this years? Chiklis' confession scene = LOCK for a nomination. Walton Goggins this entire season = LOCK. What the fuck did they nominate instead? Jeremy Piven? Seriously? His plugs give a better performance than he does.
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I assumed such an un PC (even if it's intentional) performance wouldn't be recognized. I doubt the Academy will touch it. It still does change the fact that the Golden Globes committee can be bought easier than a Sente seat in Illinois. Swag anyone?
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but I'm trying to change my AICN name and can't figure out how. Anyone on here wanna help me?
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Am I the only one who thought the IRON MAN was better than TDK?
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you just sign up for a new one. you cant alter your current profile
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You're not the ONLY one...but, I have the feeling you're DEFINITELY in the minority with that opinion.
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just like his "performance". Good to see the Harris get some love but where is the love for Pushing Daisies? Or was that last year?
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Dec 11, 2008 4:58:19 PM CST
Hunh. Another year of voting for movies nobody's seen...
by orbots commander
...or will see until they hit DVD or cable. Way to go Golden Globes. I mean for cripes sake, most of the nominated movies haven't even been released yet. Way to stay relevant, guys.
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stop posting people!
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Dec 11, 2008 4:59:17 PM CST
TDK not being nominated for picture, screenplay, director, score
by themcflyfarm
makes no sense
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I totally hear you on that. I might be one of the only people on Earth who saw "Tropic Thunder" and wasn't really impressed with Cruise's performance. All I saw was Tom Cruise in a fat suit with a bald cap...he didn;t really alter his voice, his inflections, his physicality, mannerisms, nothing. It was just fat, old, balding Tom Cruise. I really didn't see what all the hubbub/big deal was about his performance in the film.
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I know that its news to everyone else, but he he was pretty good in that Batman movie.
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Where do I go to create a new account? If I sign out and click the sign in button all that is on the side is a get a new password button.
I've been a member for about 3 years now and I can't for the life of me remember how I did this shit.
Help anyone? -
And is this for the 2007 season or this season, because if it is this season then Jimmy Smits was robbed!
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Before we start, yes I know it is FAILED. Either way, they did both.
Hoping that the Oscars get them right at least.
Just... just what happened?! -
Was I the only one who though Tropic Thunder was a bit boring? And I'm a fan of most Ben Stiller films...
Not a critism as most people seem to enjoy it, but I was disappointed. -
...for score, screenplay, director, and picture is a total joke, correct. But, from what I understand, the picture wasn't nearly as well received overseas and internationally as it was here (especially in Japan and Asia). I could be wrong...but, that's what I understood. And isn't it the Hollywood Foreign Press that votes on the noms? So, perhaps they're coming at it with a similar viewpoint. I just hope the Academy rights the wrongs of the injustice of the Globe nominations. TDK definitely deserved more than just a nom. for Ledger. If nothing else, it should've also got screenplay and director noms.
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What's most interesting, I think, about In Bruges' surprising success today, is that it hasn't really been screening a lot for awards contention. It hasn't been listed once in Variety's Screening Guide for guild and Academy members. I'm sure both groups were sent DVDs but still... a pretty remarkable feat for a movie that came and went earlier in the year. This movie has already gotten pretty damn far based on reviews and word of mouth. My hat is off. Who would've thought after all the praise Ralph Fiennes earned for his performance, that both his co-stars would be nominated instead. No worries. Fiennes got nominated for The Duchess instead. And it might as well be for The Reader too. Guy had a hell of a year.
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I laughed at a few parts, but I didn't like it all that much. Now, In Bruges was pretty good.
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I wasn't bored by "Thunder"...but, just as with Cruise's performance, I didn't think it was nearly as great as everyone else hyped it up to be. I thought it was funny...but, not life-alteringly so.
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I have friends, co-workers, family members that believe IRON MAN is a better movie than TDK.
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Very overated, and I know it has already been said, but how can Tom Cruise be nominated for a cameo role? Imagine if he won, ahead of Heath Ledger, for that! Step Brothers...now that was fucking hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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In Bruges was great - Tropic Thunder, not so much IMO. Oh, and Peter Gabriel should and will win best song.
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Again, I don't deny that you are telling the truth and that your story is indeed the case for YOUR family and peers. But, I still say more people preferred "TDK" to "Iron-man". Which, of course, it is. : )
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...I bought it the other day, and you do notice the flaws: it's about a half hour too long and I think I also counted three different climaxes. Also, the Bale Bat-voice started getting really funny. I also caught Tropic Thunder on DVD: it's good if a bit overrated, but Tom Cruise was not the standout, it was Downey.
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They should be absolutely ashamed for that oversight.
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Best Actor for Pinapple Express, hahahahahahahahaha. That's fucking stupid!
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Heath Ledger seriously annoyed the shit out of me.
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Thats a fucking joke. Cruise just played himself in a fat suit. ANd people who thought the dancing was funny are probably also entertained by shiny rocks.
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are the inexcusable omissions here. In Bruges deserves any award it gets, and then some - best film I've seen this year. Heath Ledger was seriously awesome and should win.
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Agree that Downey was the standout...It's weird if I take each individual thing...Downey, Stiller, Coogan, Cruise, the trailers...I liked them but the whole wasn't as good as the sum of some of it's parts.
TDK was awesome although I'm a lifelong Batman fan...I took a couple of people who don't even like action films or comic book stuff and they came out buzzing saying that it was probably the most invested in a film they'd ever been in a cinema. Think it got them loving seeing stuff on the big screen again! -
I liked TDK but I'm glad to see it get mostly snubbed. Ledger's performance is deserving of any awards it gets, but the film isn't. Also, the Tom Cruise and James Franco nods are ridiculous. And while i haven't seen it, I think Revolutionary Road might be the film to beat this year.
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Bale's voice is flaw #1, the film is a bit too long, and that bat-sonar thing completely derailed the final action scenes, but other than that it's top-flight.
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He played like 5 roles!
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It's got 4 nominations and the general public can't even see it until Christmas day.
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But we all knew it was going to happen...
At least they nominated Wall-E for Best Picture... wait... they didn't do that one either? Jesus Christ... No one cares about the Globes anyway... -
the world does not revolve around the darknight unlike on that other sites where they eat sleep and shit heath
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wow where is The Dark Knight!!! one nomination for what was easily one of the best films of the year. this is an outrage. No one is saying give it every award but it has to be nominated i mean come on.
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Thats crazy.
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Doesn't make the movies any better or worse, and its really a popularity contest anyway. I used to watch the Oscars every year until Titanic won over much better movies.
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In Treatment is the most annoyingly self-important thing I've ever seen on TV (except for the night with Mia Wasikowska as Sophie - she was amazing). Nobody watched it, and it leads the globes for most TV nominations, so that ought to tell you something about the Hollywood Foreign Press Assn.
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Is that most people's initial opinion of TDK will fade on the inevitable repeat viewings now that it's available to own. I do like the score, and Ledger was good, but as a whole the movie was simply not what everybody has built it up to be. I know it's not necessarily a popular opinion, but as somebody who was looking forward to it at least as much as a lot of you (maybe not as much as some of you), I am still amazed with regard to the extent sentimentality towards Ledger (in a performance which was good, but not as good as the one in Brokeback Mountain) has clouded so many people's judgement on this one.
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No Dark Knight I can kind of understand, although I disagree with, but the lack of a nomination for Milk is beyond me. Frost/Nixon was entertaining, with Langella in a brilliant fucking performance, but I would not put it in a best picture category. Same goes for The Reader; while I think Winslet should grab an Oscar for this, it's just too much of the same and not exciting enough to get a vote. I've yet to seen Revolutionary Road or Benjamin Button, so can't say anything about them. I hope SLUMDOG takes the cake. After seeing it three times, it still is my favorite film of the year, or maybe in the past couple of years. If I were making decisions, I would take out Frost/Nixon and The Reader and put The Dark Knight and Milk instead. The latter two speak more to the current discourse of pop culture and are way more culutrally prevalent. On the TV side of things, no Lost= I don't care.
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Why do people complain that half of the movies aren't out yet - every year? I understand the idea that says "why should we care if we can't watch them yet?" - but it's been this way for fucking forever people. It's like screaming into a deaf man's ear.
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Fucking travesty. There should be no discussion that at least Best Drama, Chiklis and Goggins must be on the list. Especially when run of the mill stuff like House or a mixed bag like True Blood are on it.
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More like an empty bag. I have to admit that I've never watched the Shield (or any F/X shows for that matter), but I'd say it would be a travesty if any of the nominated shows beats out Mad Men.
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I'm not surprised they left out TDK and WALL-E here, but I wouldn't count either of them out at the Oscars. WALL-E still stands a good chance at getting a screenplay Oscar nod, and is obviously a lock for animated feature. I still think Dark Knight will come up with a best picture nod after it gets DGA/SAG nods.
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wasn't nominated.
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Jorge Garcia deserved a best supporting actor nod, if nothing else.
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Dec 11, 2008 5:48:34 PM CST
"But if you're wholly uninterested in what these "journalists" t
by amy chasing
then why click on this post?"
Because I'm bored at work and can't be arsed buying a women's magazine to read the same shit. -
belong to select porn starlets and myspace "models."
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years and years ago, winning and cupping his chest to see "i'll show you golden globes." Hah!
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Lost is smoke and mirrors, about as compelling as daytime soaps
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First, I liked Iron Man as much as the next person but to say it's better then The Dark Knight is just crazy. TDK changed the way comic book films should be made. Nolan actually went out and made it into a film instead of just the same old comic book flick. In the end Iron man doesn't stray away from the comic book movie formula (i still love it though). as for best song springstien should be taking that for the wrestler. I have seen all the films nominated (although i can't tell you how) and most of the films up for best picture are not better then the dark knight. and just so you don't think i am some crazy TDK lover there were some films i thought were better like Let the right one in, Doubt, Milk, the Wrestler, those just being a few.
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I think if there had to be ONE nomination for it, then it definitely should've been for Henry Ian Cusick. I mean, The Constant!!!!!!
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So glad to see it getting love. I rented it back when it came out because I remembered wanting to see it after watching the previews. Everything just worked wonderfully in it.
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TDK doesn't hold up after repeat viewings. Once the buzz wears off, it's just a really good movie, not a great one. Ledger deserves every award he can get, though.
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Good one, AICN...
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Next year, no one remembers who won what Golden Globe, they remember who won the Oscar. Not endorsing or detracting, just sayin' keep it in perspective.
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In Bruges is a pretty good film I'm glad to see that it got noms it got. and as far as Ralph Fiennes goes he was a lot better in In Bruges then he was in the Reader or the duchess. he should have got the nom for that.
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And it was the best-reviewed movie of the year before Iron Man came out. Even if you don't think the acting was up to snuff, there were 2 songs that easily were better than hearing Clint Eastwood sing. "Inside of You" and "Dracula's Lament". And how closer are we to hearing four words that should strike fear in the hearts of every real movie fan: Oscar nominee Miley Cyrus?
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Now witness the beginning of Slumdog's ascendancy and backlash. Time will reveal this to be a far less important movie than people seem to believe it is now. Its structure and back-end have serious tonal inconsistencies. The whole thing just doesn't hold together, which is all the more disappointing since the movie does illuminate such a generally misrepresented corner of our world.
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That's definitely also setting off my BS detector. I mean I watched every episode and it was enjoyable enough, but its not one of the five best dramas on tv. Same with In Treatment. If those blurbs above the noms are to be believed, then these people just love giving huge blowjobs to HBO, probably because HBO wins everything, deserving or not. True Blood has no right being in that category. Reading this list is basically a punchline in itself. This just isn't credible, any of it. Sure, Cruise was great, but does he deserve a nomination for 3 days of work when you could give recognition to some one who could actually use it? That's basically giving Cruise props for doing something people don't expect of him. I love Tom Cruise, unapologetically, but that's some serious bullshit. The only good thing on this list is Colin Farrel for In Bruges. If anyone deserves some credit for doing something right for once in his career, its him, he was fucking brilliant. And as far as no Lost....I don't even know where to begin.
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Wow. I totally forgot about that. How could it not be on best original song? That had me crying it was so funny.
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i think TDK does hold up after the first viewing. In fact i thought it was even better. yeah it h as it's small problems like batmans voice which you can get past. But the many positives far surpass the few negatives. in the end TDK is a great movie.
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Jim Breuer is probably turning in his grave, knowing that James Franco was nominated for an award for a character her created and perfected. RIP Jim.
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come on man , give ne a fucking break . really ,is this how sad this site has become , reporting on every little slight from the films score to this ..who gives a shit . just had to say
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But no nomination for Breaking Bad?
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I did think Tom Cruise was funny in tropic thunder accept for the dancing but he should not have got a nom. And yes i totally forgot about Dracula's Lament one of the funniest things i heard this year.
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It worked for Mama Mia. Don't forget about Spiderman3. Possibly the greatest cinematic masterpiece of this or any other generation. If The Dark Knight had a couple of dance numbers with Bruce Wayne then it would have made a couple of billion dollars.
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That's pretty sad though. "The Fall" was the best movie of the year IMO.
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That's pretty sad though. "The Fall" was the best movie of the year IMO.
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I disagree, and here's why. I've seen the film three times, and with each repeated viewing there's something else that I didn't notice, or a theme/idea that hit me harder than before (such as the true devastation of the film's finale, the "social experiments"). That's just me though. Anyone else agree?
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Damn You Michael Bay
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I mean Meryl Streep was amazing in that mov... ahem...I mean what an outrage! Momma Mia??? This is a travesty I tell you!
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I'm with you on this: it's a solid film that reveals a little more the more attention you pay. Yes, it has flaws (see my post above, and I probably missed a few) but it is a seriously good crime film. I also agree with the guy who wanted some love for "The Fall," but have to wonder what it might be nominated for? Best cinematography and production design at Oscar time, for sure, but the Globes are much more about performances, and the ones in The Fall just aren't that flashy or special - unless they create a special award for "Most Appealing Performance From An Utterly Unappealing Child" which it would win, hands down.
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it definitely was one of the best...
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Heath Ledger got a nod for best supporting actor.
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Best film of the year?
Sorry about the above link; my baby hot 'Post' while I was typing! -
...the film's supposed darkness. I thought it was pretty tame aside from the thematic implications of the Joker and his actions. And the censorship in it was fucking lame.
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I've watched it about 20 times now and it has flaws, lots of them, but they are outweighed by the good stuff. The sheer ambition. Really great great movie.
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...for Best Soundtrack, Best Film, Best Supporting Actor for Gary Oldman, Best Actor for Heath Ledger, Best Screenplay and Best Director for Christopher Nolan. If it actually receives any awards is another matter and I don't think that's as important as nominations personally. Nominations would show that the awards committee at least as some appreciation for the flick. And it rightfully deserves such. It's an excellent film and I say that as a film lover and not just as a life long Batman fan.
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and when I looked at it I didn't see a hint of TDK. Since TDK is the best movie ever, I'm not surprised.
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but TDK is a great movie. So it has flaws - I don't know a single film that I love that doesn't have at least one little thing in it that I would have done differently. And that's down to personal taste and choice. There are no perfect movies. Only movies we love that have a couple of little things we'd prefer to be different.
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Lots and lots of $$$$$$$ awards.
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Dec 11, 2008 6:57:30 PM CST
The way this article was front-loaded with GG criticism...
by countryboy
... you'd think the nominees were all movies like FOUR CHRISTMASES or something. These are all perfectly respectable films. Is this newfound indignation based solely on the fact that TDK got only one nomination -- which everyone agrees it should get anyway? It seems kind of silly...
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This site is always critical of the Globes; it's nothing new.
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Just a dude in Blackface.
I thought Downey, Jr. was funny as hell, but i'm just sayin....it's kinda like art imitating life imitating art....
hollywood is so ridiculous that they probably don't even get the fact that this shit is what the film was actually satirizing. -
I thought TDK was terrible. Not standing up in support of the Golden Globes or anything... but it doesn't bother me at all that it was left out of most of the nominations.
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viola davis and blair underwood.
please don't send the reverse racism hounds after me that usually attack after anybody brings up race on these talkbacks. -
They're hardly HAILING Mamma Mia over Dark Knight. Granted that Best Picture nomination list is a joke, beside Frost/Nixon and CCoBenjaminB.
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"High Noon". There are others, just none in the last 10-20 years or so.
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can't think of anything I'd change - I especially loved the ending.
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I've said it before, but the first viewing mixed with Ledgers performance were the only reason TDK was so hyped and praised. Glad to see now that people are revisiting the film at home they can evaluate it properly. Just as I suspected. Either way it probably should have got a few more nods. These nominations are a fucking joke. Tom Cruise??? He was easily the worst part of that movie. This is must-miss TV right here folks.
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I'm sorry, but these two are completely different movies, even though they are based from comic books. Look, RDJ made Iron Man a great movie, no doubt, but TDK was on a different level. Batman is a few notches above IM in that Batman's villian's are classic and are able to be transitioned on to film, whereas IM's villians are second-rate and cheesy--MANDARIN anyone? Either way, Nolan has crafted a comic-book masterpiece and Iron Man can get their if Favreau does not fuck up IM2 and the Avengers, which is all supposedly happening in 2010...Am I the only one believing this bullshit? (they can't even keep the Hulk around) TDK is a great crime drama film that deserved a nomination, and IM was a great comic book movie, two completely different things, but it is amazing that TDK did not get a nom for best pic or best director, because they both elevated from traditional summer blockbuster to mastery, and no other (comic book) film can say that... That's my take and I hope the Oscar's have something better to say than the FUCKING GLOBES!!!
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seems to use the list of GG nominees as a cheat sheet of who to vote for when they don't feel like actually watching the movies themselves. How many times has something been ignored by the HFP and we all think that the Oscars will get it right but then the nominees are the same damn people? I mean I like Tom Cruise. I think he gets gypped a lot of the time because of who he is. But to nominate him instead of Brad Pitt in "Burn After Reading"? No one's been funnier than Chad in years. The fact that they didn't even nom the score for TDK makes me think they purposely snubbed it as much as they could. They knew they couldn't get away with not nominating Heath without getting their dumbasses deported. If the Academy thinks for itself this year, it won't be a problem, but I doubt it.
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it was a good movie, but what I find questionable is that there is nothing for Walton Goggins, and nothing for BSG. That tells me that these awards are full of shit. Also, I tried to watch MAMMA MIA and it was the most retarded piece of garbage I have ever seen and my wife agrees (her favorite Xmas movie is LOVE ACTUALLY). You give me Bootstrap Bill and James Bond! I will make a good movie, and I know shit about making movies.
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It's leagues ahead of the rest of the nominations. And Farrell, Gleeson (I'm really glad to see some Gleeson love in the nominations) and Fiennes were all superb (and I normally hate Colin Farrell). Fiennes has had an incredible year so he deserves some love. And in the TV categories Dexter deserves to clean up (how often do you see a show that's SO consistently good?).
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I haven't heard hardly anything good about this film. Movies like Frost/Nixon, Button, Slumdog Millionaire are getting enough praise that I get their nominations. But The Dark Knight is a brilliant film that deserves its due.
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on Tuesday. And here's what it felt like: a "real" crime drama/mob movie with Batman. And that's a good thing. It wasn't trying to be a superhero movie. It was just an excellent crime movie. Excellent.
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Unless you consider story, pacing, and continuity small. It looked and sounded (if you overlook Batman voice) great, but there were all kinds of missed opportunities and outright bad decisions (Gordon's cliche fake death) that kept me out of the movie for at least half of it.
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how Nolan bases things in a real-world environment, almost as if these characters really could exist. It would be interesting to see his take on more bizarre characters like Killer Croc or Mr. Freeze.
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If Benjamin Button has nominations, with nothing for Valkarie which comes out the same day, what does this suggest? Is Valkarie not good enough as an awards film? Have they not put it forward for consideration?
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best performance I've seen of Colin Farrell - and that's an amazing thing itself. Excellent old school film making.
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It should win everything for everything!ALmost all the huge set pieces I thought had to be CG'd up to the eyeballs were mostly in camera, Practical FX! and the cameras were fricking huge weighty Imax beasts that they invented rigs to carry even some shots on Steady-cam! Nolan pushed everyone in every area! pushing technicians and artists who have been in the game for years to stop saying it can't be done and do it! like the car stunt guy who actually air rammed the jokers big rig straight up and over on location! and the only CG'd out the ram! amazing or the fact they actually physically made the batpod for real from scratch and a pro driver learned to ride it! then they find out the updraft from the back wheel instead of snagging the batcape like they thought actually blew it up perfectly and the specially designed backpack for the cape to CG into was made reduntant by something that actually happened for real! I'm waffling and i only mention a few bits of what went into this but that's just from a technical angle not even taking into account the story and phychology of all the characters and the performances! Man i need to see this in IMAX! and I might be a bit byassed as I cant fucking stand musicals but fuck Mama Mia!
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OK so I bought the "special edition" 2 disc dvd. The second disc has one 7 min documentary and one 15 min documentary, then the Imax scenes shown in their proper ratio. On the blu-ray, the Imax scenes, in their proper ratio, are incorporated into the film, because that is "the way the filmmakers intended them to be seen". So why the f@%k are they not that way on the "special edition." Oh, yeah, because I didn't pay $10 more for the blu-ray. Totally f&*king lame. I guess the "filmmakers" only intended for rich people to see the movie, then ...
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is a little ridiculous..the movie was a decent, entertaining flick. Yes it was Colin Farrel's best performance in a while but the movie as a whole did not wow me. Fiennes character seemed almost identical to Ben Kingsley's in Sexy Beast yet not as good.
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I HATED him before In Bruges, but he is one funny little m-f
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The headline is not a very relevant contrast, seeing as how the nominations Mamma Mia! received did not take away the nominations Dark Knight could have received. Mamma Mia! very well might not have deserved the attention (although what other big-budget musical were the studios going to lobby to have included?), but if anything stole Dark Knight's nominations, look no further than Benjamin Button, Frost/Nixon, or The Reader.
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as anyother talkback. Get used to it.
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Better get some Love
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... got trapped into seeing it with a couple of sisters in law and a daughter. The film is a perfectly competently executed technically, and aside from a couple of cringe inducing moments, the performance are mostly competent and "good enough" to accommodate the high level of execution and sophistication of the production design & values, but it's sugary enough to melt your molars like alka-seltzer tablets. I mean how much Abba can any sane person listen to? I found it almost unwatchable. The girls thought it was "stupid", but "sweet"
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i went into that imax theatre expecting a fairly decent film and what i got was the best film of the year, easily. if you cant see past a little too much base on batman when he talks then you really are just a fickle movie goer.
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Dec 11, 2008 8:27:55 PM CST
Anybody who uses the term "hater" or "hating" is a douchebag.
by mr. waturi
Just thought I'd point that out.
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Dark Knight is obviously a better film and in terms of craft Mamma isnt exactly a classic but it was a gloriously stupid amount of fun and is going to be a guilty pleasure of mine for many years to come and thats due to the grumpy loser haters convincing me to be embarrrased at liking it.
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Where are they, assholes? Nobody ever gets specific...
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...For best actress...Melissa Leo. Add to which, have any of them even seen Revolutionary Road, or is just an awards toss kinda thing.
And Tom Cruise? Are you fucking drunk? It's one thing nominating the good performance from Tropic Thunder, but why the fuck chuck in Tom Cruise? Novelty value? If you wanted another comedy, why not go with Franco for Express? And nothing for Brolin, at all? I hope the oscars aren't this gay. -
Sorry....
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is just an excellent film. Don't even throw it into the "superhero" category like so many others. Great pacing, sets, acting - it's all good.
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...come on AICN, lets try to be professional here...I havent even seen the film, but that kind of error always bugs me. Sorry, its just one of my "things" :S
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go with you (overrated movie)
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Yeah, I like House, but it has nothing on The
Wire. If there were any indication of how much a joke these awards are it is this: every critic worth his weight in ink will tell you how great The Wire is. Yet these so-called "entertainment journalists" have yet again ignored the best show on television, proving they are clueless to quality and are more concerned with consumption. They should be ashamed of themselves. -
Really? I get the distinct impression it is a great movie every time I watch it.
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Most people who say this are simply mistaking something they don't understand for a plot hole. The bottom line is these people don't really care even if you explain the logic behind their so-called plot hole to them. It's backlash time. I'm seeing the trend on every talkback thread now.
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I actually didn't mention that myself, but aren't you a hostile little douchebag? Let's just start with: how could the Joker could anyone to work for him when he is instantly famous for killing everyone who works for him? That's a pretty big hole, right there. I loved the movie, by the way, asshole.
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asshole
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It was entertaining, sure, but award winning? Best Picture??? Come on ... Heath was great and it was a good crime story, but I just can't see it deserving nominations OR major awards. Let's be realistic guys ... this is fanboy dreaming here.
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I was actually musing on a dick from the /film talkbacks - among others.
But to answer your question. The Joker preyed on the mentally instable, greedy, and desperate. People will do A LOT for the chance at a vast sum of money.
Besides, he was new on the scene and unlike any criminal before. The people had to assume that if they played their own cards right, they could get on his good side. After all, everyone needs right hand men, right? Not the Joker. -
just sayin
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"Entertainment Journalism" is all about who Paris Hilton is dating or the release date of some Hills cast member's album or what Miley Cyrus ate for lunch. These people have about as much taste as the trash they gleefully report on. It's not news, it's just filler. And stop yelling - announcing the so-called "entertainment news" in a loud voice does not make it any more interesting or exciting.
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In fact, it's kind of ham fisted. It's a whole lot of clunky symbolism and big clunky obvious thematic pondering.
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TDK > Mamma Mia, therefore, Ang Lee's Hulk > TDK.
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...But it does take a leap of faith to buy The Joker as borderline pyschic, or so retardedly well organised to have set so many different, varying options up ahead of time. Other than that, The Dark Knight IS a very good film, but the last third rushes Harvey Dents transformation into Two Face through so fast that it makes the entire conclusion suffer and not make a lot of sense character wise, although it suits the thematic purpose of the film that Nolan was going for.
So yeah, in closing, great film, weak third act because of poor writing in regards to two face. -
Ang Ree if you diss his HULK.
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the bank with him, but who knows that? Everyone he worked with is dead so who is left to tell the tale? Even the guys robbing the bank didn't know the Joker was with them. They thought Heath was just another guy on the crew. I can't think of anyone else who worked for him who was indiscriminately killed by him.
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kicks gayish mamma mia every second in the arse. Rock Me Sexy Jesus. "Youre teachers pet, what do you want more??"
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Much like Tropic Thunder. All the right ingredients, left out the jokes.
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...and apparently the Hollywood Foreign Press agrees. The best things about the movie were the Zimmerman score and Heath Ledger's Joker. The TDK score was just a retread of the Batman Begins score, and Heath was nominated for Best Supporting Actor. So what's the problem?
I remember all everyone would ever talk about when the movie was running over the summer was that overrated Joker-pencil scene. Is that what made it a great picture? Let's think about that. The script certainly didn't follow a cohesive three act structure, making Pulp Fiction look like Robert Townsend's Chinatown. So there goes your screenwriting nom. What, they should give it to the Nolans because they made the Joker a mouthpiece for Psych 101?
The film certainly didn't produce any gut wrenching emotional scenes that I remember. I mean, who really gave a damn when Rachel Dawes or Harvey Dent bought the farm? I certainly didn't care. And Gordon's death was a hoax, so it doesn't count. There goes your Best Picture nom out the window.
I really can't think of anything else the film should be nominated for, except maybe Christian Bale for Most Annoying Voice. TDK is the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time. Heath Ledger will probably most likely get something for his Joker performance, if not the Globes, then maybe the Academy, who are all about politics and popularity. That should be accolades enough. -
Who would've guessed?I'm not exactly surprised that DK didn't get best pic nom, but I thought for sure it would get more than just a supporting actor one... and James Franco for Pineapple, really?
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the amusing way talkbackers can slag off complete strangers is second only to those people who write for AICN (and those who say they're not anymore but still seem to be). Even if you have none in your heart, know that you put a fleck of joy in mine.
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Dec 11, 2008 9:12:34 PM CST
"Script certainly didn't follow a cohesive 3 act structure"
by mattmanreturns
Oh so every great movie must conform to the three act structure? Don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/12/bettie-page-the.html
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don't get me wrong it was a good movie, but the storyline was predictable at least to anyone who read a book, a comic or even watched TV over the last decade...the REAL impressive bit was that it was a "comic book" film that was done without dumbing things down because it was "only a comic book film"
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Well, if you want to win a major Hollywood mainstream award like an Oscar or a Globe, you have to play by the rules...
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The screenplay, despite its weakness in regards to Two Faces development, was still far, far, far better than just about any other film out there this year. (note, haven't seen frost/nixon or button of course). You dismiss it simply because it doesn't follow some retarded three act structure? Thats a rule now? It was a dense, layered, script that pulled its weight with great characters, in a great story with great themes and they all slotted together almost perfectly. Granted it's not Lawrence Of Arabia, but it's possibly the best written Summer movie we've had in a decade or more. Again, it didn't really have any gut wrenching emotional scenes, but neither do any of the Globes choices for best picture. You don't need "gut wrenching" emotional scenes to be a good film. As the list of nominees shows. If your asking for moments in the acting where the performer gets to bawl and flail and do serious face, I'm sure there will be some of that, yes. But they didn't even nominate The Wrestler, the only film that could have fufilled that part of the equation.
It should get nominated for director. There is no other film this year to match it on scale. I don't think Nolan handled the concluding action scene all that fantastically, but he still did a more impressive job than any other director on the list. It doesn't even look like they have a screenplay nominations list...As for performances, well, Ledger, for sure. He's got no competition, except maybe Farrell for In Bruges. But they aren't nominated against each other. Or Brolin for Milk, who isn't nominated either. The Dark Knight hate is like the Titanic hate. Two films that were monstrously popular, successful and good at the same time, yet because they aren't 2001, The Grapes Of Wrath or Lawrence Of Arabia, people shit on them for being unworthy. -
I wonder what (other that Ledger's) the other 3 where for?
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I guarantee that when Oscar voting comes around, the TDK screenplay will get shredded by the Screenwriter's Guild and anyone else who writes Hollywood screenplays for a living except the Nolans. Giving a nod to as scattered a screenplay as the TDK will mean that the three act structure, which is the bread and butter of all professional screenwriters, means nothing and you write your script full of so many holes just as long as the director is good enough to cover them up. Sorry but surprise plot twists and good monologues do not a great screenplay make...
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Dec 11, 2008 9:30:24 PM CST
No one in the world cares about any of those movies besides TDK
by most excellent ninja
so Dark Knight wins, it was the movie of the year to the world, the fun experience of the year at the movies. That is more than enough than these silly awards. But to be snubbed for Best Pic and best score. Can anyone really honestly tell me any of those scores was better than just that Joker theme. The score destroyed anything but that one theme was enough to beat all scores. fucking asshats.
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...for a variety of reasons, including the pitifully lazy script that substituted dry voice-over for character development, the complete lack of anything resembling sensuality, and the distinct feeling that Woody Allen has made this fucking movie close to fifty times already, with the exception that this one takes place in Spain. But on top of all that, I hated the characters and despised the performances by Scarlett Johansson and Rachel Hall. In other words, I'm outraged that not does the movie land in the Best Picture (Musical or Comedy) category, but Hall also picks up a nod for her abysmal performance. Seriously, she does a shitty Woody Allen performance for the first half of the movie and then settles for just reading her lines in the second half.Anyways, it's just one movie and it's just my opinion, but I had to get that off my chest. The idea that the HFPA nominates this garbage for Best Picture and skips out on The Dark Knight is a little maddening. But it's the fucking Golden Globes. I shouldn't expect any better.
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...wrote the TDK screenplay. And I agree with naysayers who feel Joker was really really organized for someone who represented chaos...
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No, that makes sense. It's not the fact that it's a poor screenplay, it's the fact that other writers are jealous of not being able to match it that it won't get nominated. A bunch of hacks adhering to some magical seminar taught structure pissed that real writers put up a script that actually engaged people. It's retards like that mean shows like The Wire get left behind because they don't have a a fucking murder in the first five minutes followed by an hour of puzzle solving and a neat conclusion.
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do crazy joker esque shit. that'd be more interesting than the actual awards. every little piece of transcript fucked with, videos played jokerized. hahahahaha.
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Just because he set up chaos, doesn't mean he wasn't smart enough to deal with what he was faced with time after time.
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...I mean a great "Hollywood" screenplay that wins mainstream awards. For myself, I'm not an ardent subscriber to the three act structure philosophy.
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Look I ain't hatin on any shows. I bet fans of different shows can give reasons why their favs should have been nominated. But seriously no Shield noms? I don't give a shit thats just a joke. I thought for sure it would get alot, show, actor, supporting actor, shit I am stunned. And In Treatment? Really? Sad. True Blood I actually like and big ups for nominating a fun show in all the serious shit. At least they got Dexter and Californication. I think these douches just pick the same shit all the time anyways. I mean MONK?!!!! MONK???? fuck me I have had enough Monk.
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Will wipe the floor with the other shows.
If it's this years season then where the hell is Smits? His acting in this last episode...
**spoiler**
...right before he was strangled was absolutely phenomenal!
That scene in general now ranks as one of my favorites in any show of all time.
"...and I killed yours too."
It was perfect.
GO DEX AND COMPANY GO -
Or maybe that was the joke. Although he espoused and preached chaos, he was the most organized f#@ker of them all.
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...With their poor taste. The Shield didn't get nominated because, well, it's really bad. Dexter? I rented the first season, got three episodes in and couldn't take it shittiness anymore. I tried tuning in to watch the second season on TV, but it was like fucking Hannibal Rising. There ARE some quality shows around, sure, like LOST which as far as slick, big budget commercial network television goes is very good, or The Wire, which is as good as television can get. Strangely enough, it's also largely ignored by everyone but elitist fanboys and critics.
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People who claim there are plot holes are not just making shit up, examine the film, and you'll see them as well. Plotholes do not by any means equal a bad film, but definitely are result of a less than stellar script.
First of all, as the person right above me mentioned, what's with the Jokers speech to Harvey Dent. He's like a dog without a leash, just doing what he does without really knowing? Hello, this is one of the most elaborate villains to grace the world of cinema. The amount of pre-planning and thinking that went into his schemes is ridiculous. Hey though, maybe that argues his insanity better. To me, plot hole. It renders the Joker/Dent scene much less valuable.
Next how about the Joker in the cell, guarded by ONE old run-down cop. Are you serious? After the intense interrogation, and intense manhunt for him? They leave him in the IR, unshackled, with one cop!? Seems like a ploy to move the plot forward, but does not go with anything the film set up. Shall I keep going?
Remember the whole Joker tries to kill Dent action scene? Sure it was fantastically done, but when you really think about it, he went through quite the effort to kill Dent which he now thought was Batman. Now we all know how Dent is Gotham's White Knight, and without him the mafia cannot be prosecuted. And the Joker's plan was to just get to jail anyway to kill Lao. Why though? Why couldn't he just kill Dent, who was arguably more important than Lao. To me, it clearly looks like he's trying to kill Dent, but why do it all to go to jail? Plothole, that's why.
I really did enjoy this film, but it is clearly not flawless, and it has it's issues. Not to mention the botched climax, the rushed storylines, and abrupt scene ends. You fanboys though will go to the end of the earth saying its a masterpiece, which it was NOT.
Once again, I enjoyed this film, and thought it was a good time at the movies. Definitely one of the best comic films ever. However, this Best Picture talk is nonsense. I'll be shocked if it were to win, let alone be nominated. -
Just write a simplistic, five-bar piano/guitar theme and repeat on autopilot for two maudlin hours. Eastwood's movies used to have awesome scores by Lalo Schifrin, Jerry Fielding and Ennio Morricone (hell, even Lennie Niehaus was okay), but ever since he started scoring his own movies, the music has gone to hell. I realize everyone likes sucking Eastwood's cock right now, but his music does NOT deserve awards recognition (and Changeling sucked all around).
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... TDK is pretty fearless sophisticated film making on a grand scale. It's successful elements far outweigh it's weaknesses by any reasonable yardstick you care to use for projects executed at it's level. Is it "Best Picture of the Year"? I don't know, and who cares? It's a meaningless destinction. By what standard are you measuring "Best"? Having said this I'll opine that anyone who thinks TDK is not at least a very good film, that is downright spectacular in several places, just isn't much of 'big production/blockbuster' film fan; doesn't know, or doesn't care much about how films at this level of production are made, or doesn't have any interest in the subject matter. As genres go, it is in fact more of a 'crime film' than most of what we've come to know as 'super-hero films', and very tightly scripted one as well punctuated with a couple of well documented/if overly 'fussy' 'plot holes'.
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The Joker was lying to Dent. Just like when he flat out lies to Batman about where Rachel and Dent are. It's not a plot hole, it's key to the character. As for the Joker with the one guard... I'll give you that one. Although it could be argued that the cops were pretty distracted and stretched thin at that moment. I still see no gaping plot holes in the film... maybe a few oddities which can easily be attributed to human error within the film. Which would only add to its realism.
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Perfect name for you! You are a person with no taste (aside from The Wire, that is). Lost is better than Dexter and The Shield?!? That is so inane as to defy rebuttal.
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Those aren't plot holes dumbass. you obviously haven't read a comic, The Joker does things without explanation, if he kills Dent or not in the chase, it doesn't matter to him, in the end it makes no difference, he just does it, if the plan fails which he knows is a possibility then he'll just do something else. He has no explanation for motivations and plans, you just accept it, because that's how he is. Dumbass. It'd be hilarious to hear what you think of Grant Morrison's psycho joker. dumb fuck.
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but I was more bothered by the logical lapses in the Joker's whole connection to the Gotham crimeworld. It's shaky at best. He may be an anarchist with no plan, but what about the guy who set the fire truck on fire, or the guy driving the garbage truck that rams a police caravan, or the semi that takes out the SWAT van? If these guys are career criminals, they would know better than to take on the cops. (The Joker wasn't going to be there when they hauled that poor guy out if his semi, and you just know he got his ass kicked five ways to Sunday). There are characters in this movie who behave as extensions of the Joker's plot but don't have any credible motive of their own. I really do love this film, but it is very far from perfect.
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I suppose you could say he was lying, though I don't think there's any hard proof to that. If anything I'd say he wasn't lying, but it goes to further prove he's one crazy motherfucker. Sure he was trying to motivate Dent to take out some mob members, but I would assume that in Dents condition, even an elaborate planning speech would have worked. Let's face it, Dent was pretty ticket either way.
I'll agree with you that the film was done fantastically on all technical levels. However, just because someone didn't like the film does not mean their opinion on film is any less that those who love it. Such is the case with all film. To each his own. And I'll agree awards mean shit, but you wouldn't think so reading these boards... -
Dexter is the second best show. I hope it wins.
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Do you know what a plot hole is? It's a part of a film that does not go in line with what the rest of the film has set up. Thats exactly what I've described to you. You clearly don't know what a plot hole is. This isn't a film for every Joker comic reading geek, it's one made for the masses. Your using pointless examples.
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I gave you the hard proof when I pointed out that he lied about Dent and Rachel's position, to deliberately fuck Batman up. That's the proof. If you choose to ignore the evidence, there's no talking to you. Why do you take everything the Joker says at face value? Are you an idiot?
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Only what you THINK are plot holes, because you ignore the facts.
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...those final scenes of the last two episodes with him and Dexter were fantastic TV. And the Shield better make the cut too...Chiklis and especially Walton Goggins.Of course, for the Emmys. Who gives a shit about the Globes.
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Honestly... The Golden Globes are just "adorable".
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Proof? Facts? You've stated your interpretation of things, which has nio more or less validity than anyone else's interpretation. You need to take a logic class and learn how to argue.
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Judging by your talkback name, I can see your the typical fanboy who won't take no for an answer. In reality, it's quite obvious that your the one ignoring the facts and are seeing what you want to see. I dont give a shit if he lied to Batman or not, that doesn't prove anything. I don't think those are plotholes, I know they are. You need to accept it and move on. I have.
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I think that you can pretty much call the Godfather a perfect movie: great writing, acting, directing, cinematography. Everything was just...well, perfect. My other perfect movies? A tie between The Quiet Man, Casablanca and It's a Wonderful Life.
They sure as hell don't make 'em like that anymore. -
are you kidding me that the best picure list is a joke? I am dying to see Benjamin Button and Frost/Nixon. Also, Slumdog Millionaire happens to be, in my opinion, the best movie of the year thus far so three out of five movies sounds like a pretty respectful nominee list to me. Then again, I still have to see the other four, but they all look great.
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Tom Cruise. That stupid fucking movie wasn't even funny. Aside from the faux trailers, it was lame. Just like Role Models and Step Brothers. There's been a lot of comedies this year and most of the them have been mediocre. I just rewatched Burn After Reading, the other day and that's the best comedy of the year so far. I can't believe I didn't like that movie the first go round.
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Nothing else seems all that important really.
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Because Talkbackers here are so obsessed with being cool and anti-popular. It's freaking pathetic. BTW, it just crushed Iron Man's Blu Ray record.
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Dec 11, 2008 11:11:10 PM CST
BTW, The Joker saying he has no plans isn't a fucking plot hole.
by umaga
It's called a lie. Perhaps you missed his back stories? The guy LIES. Shocking, I know.
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he was great in the last few episodes of Dexter. Fool is crazy.
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Is a mess. It's a mechanical movie that has a bunch of miscalculated errors. Dent's transformation into a rageful, law-breaking vigilante is completely ridiculous and unearned (that is before Rachel gets killed, btw). The whole presence and personality of the masses of Gotham is leaned upon far too heavily. It's like a remake of HEAT with costumes, sloppier filmmaking, a super-pessimistic ending with high school writing level philosophical speeches, and a background world/canvas that rarely feels credible or real. The movie jumps to conclusions quickly and builds off poor narrative foundations (like the whole connection between the commissioner and police corruption). I agree that IRON MAN is much better and WAY more grounded in reality, despite TDK having a "gritty" look. Favreau gave his story the time and space to unfold in an organic, credible way. TDK is better than the horrible BATMAN BEGINS, so it's a step up from that at least, but this "snubbing" was because of obvious problems and sloppy flaws.
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Did it ever occur to you that maybe Dent DOES have split personalities but it's not pushed down our throats? Begins..horrible? Oh fuck you.
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Seriously two of the greatest writers to ever work in Television and they not only get fucked over for 5 years with the Wire but they get completely snubbed for there brilliant work on Generation Kill. I know the masses are played out on the Iraq war but Generation Kill was some of the best war correspondence in the past 50 years and was beautiful retold in that series. I'm willing to be the Mini Series awards are John Adams to loose, with that cast its probably a slam dunk, but seriously Generation Kill should have gotten some nominations at least. I won't even get into the travesty that is there treatment of the Wire which should have won dozens of Emmys and Golden Globes!
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I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with you. Iron Man was good merely because of Robert's performance. The plot was as mediocre as you can get and don't even get me started on Jeff Bridges lame villain. Plus the direction of the film was so bland. I still really enjoyed the film but Downey was its saving grace. Nothing else stood out. TDK on the other hand was a great film. I'm one of the guys who enjoyed Dent's transformation and the wrap up of his character. The only thing that didn't work for me about the last 45 minutes was the freighter scene and the final action scene utilize the sonar bullcrap. But I love what it said about Batman and how he decides to be the bad guy for the sake of the city he's trying to save. it may not be complex to understand, but it offers a lot more than what Iron Man did. The only thing I don't care for is Ledger's Jokers. The more I see it the more his little nuances annoy me.
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Henry Ian Cusick as supporting actor, hell, lead actor in Lost just for "The Constant". Motherfucker deserves an Oscar for his performance, which is one of the best I've seen on TV. I wish I could buy stock in that dude.
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Cancelling out Mendes, Howard and Daldry coz they won already and no one seen the latter. This could be fukn awesome news for new indy directors everywhere. Hope Fincher gets it, he deserves something for all his challenging films that never make money but have cult love all over them. The only music video director that tries to say something unique in most of his films. (excluding Jonze coz its Kaufmans work really)
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'nuff said.
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Dec 11, 2008 11:39:22 PM CST
The Fall, Singe did 2nd AD on BB actually, WALL E judgin by revi
by fisheater
and LOST, wtf do you expect. its gone sci fi and thats pretty much the walking dead to critics isnt it.
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The Golden Globes always were cut-rate Oscars...
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The Golden Globes never had it. Non of the critics awards have it. The Oscars lost it about 10 years ago. They all lost or never had any public credibility. I remember when I used to love to watch the Oscars. I used to know every film nominated and all the actors. I haven't watched one second of them since Return of the King won Best Picture. The Oscars and the Globes are now only promotional tools. They don't reward films. The Oscars especially just trade on a rapidly diminishing popularity to try and trick audiences to go see a film they want to make money or that they think is important. I read the list of Globe nominees and counted the number of films that I could have gone to see at my local theater to maybe a handful. You have to go to big city art houses to see most of these films that get nominated and that turns people off. It is not about rewarding films that deserve it. We all know Milk will win best pic. Is it because it is the best? No. It is because Hollywood is pissed about Prop 8 and wants to ram their political views down the public's throat. There are still a few impressionable people out there who will go see a movie just because it wins an Oscar, but that number is shrinking fast. The average person just watches the Oscars for the glitz and glamor. It is hard to care about films that you cannot see unless they come out on DVD.
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Fucking nodded off watching the trailer...I can't believe they still make pretentious relationship shit like this.
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Raging Bull = no
Chopper = no
2001ASO = no
Hitchcock = no, fuck off with ur talent asshole
Kubrick = get fucked, he sucked
Redford = yea, he's better than 80's Scorcese eh? stupid fucks
We all know how it works because IT DOESN'T WORK EVER. Scorcese should have just been given a lifetime oscar because thats what it was
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Synecdoche, N.Y. Why isn't this film getting more love. I mean it is nice to see In Bruges get some love, but Synecdoche is the best film of the year hands down.
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I'm feeling like I completely misunderstood it. Was it really a comedy? I know it had some comic elements, but I didn't really interpret it as a comedy at all.
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and that was because it was a self mocking inside holly wood joke i suppose
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The guys here who slam TDK are pretty funny. You know they've never created anything of merit, so instead they choose to tear apart something the majority of society enjoyed. "Oooh, look at how deep I am! I'm going against the grain of the majority." TDK was art. You want to pick it apart, take a step back and look at yourself in the mirror. What contribution have you given the entertainment industry? Demonstrate your superior story-telling skills for us, please. Since TDK was filled with plot holes, why not improve upon what so many of us enjoyed with your obvious superior interpretation of the medium. Please, I'm asking nicely. Impress us.
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Suck my batpod-shaped dick.
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So that's fine with me. I couldn't care less about the Globes and/or Oscars.
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my feelings about whiny bitches exactly thanks for saving me having to say it.
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So, " TDK had a weak third act and a lame ending. " ( Which is, in all serious-to-God sense, is FURTHER FROM THE FUCKING TRUTH !!!!!! ) . The exact same way ' the squid isn't necessary in Watchmen anyway, 'coz Zach Dumbass Snyder said the fuck so.
All it fucking takes for you to TRASH GOOD ART, is to be ' talked down ' by a buncha douchebags, and fucktards in power. They're ' Hollywood '.Fine. Don't ever go whining about bad movies on this site again. -
Some of those plot holes can be explained in two ways. The joker is psychic. Or he had multiple, interconnected back up plans. Like I said in one of my other posts, they aren't really plot holes, and its not really bad writing...BUT...It does stretch the credibility Veeery thin. I mean, we're talking Bobby Fischer forethought here. To me, the biggest plot hole was the inredibly weak motivation for Harvey Dent to become full on psycho killer. It never really made any sense for him to jump from being the character he was defined as to an errant crazy man targeting Gordons kids. I figured they just really had to rush to fit all that story in under 3 hours.
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...just kdding. Way too many too mention. But on the tv side, you see the same folks nominated over and over. I love Tony Shalhoub but come on. I was really hoping to see that guy Sheldon from the big bang theory. Fuckin hilarious
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I'm not in a position as of yet to have anything I've written get in the hands of producers or directors. That doesn't preclude me from having a valid opinion. I'll criticize TDK until I'm blue in the face because despite the fact that I liked it, bitter fanboy fuckwits like you will continue to throw invective at anyone who dissents. Why is it that any critique of your darling, precious film automatically results in a pile-on? Some of us didn't think TDK was God's fucking gift. Excuse the shit out of us. And when those of us who actually HAVE a point take the time to POST it, the least you could do is respectfully disagree. Instead of being a ridiculous douchebag. I'm fucking tired of defending critiques of TDK. Let it go, people. Your baby is more than well-loved. You don't need to protect it from the 10% of us who don't suck its proverbial cock.
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...But shit like Revolutinary Road etc...It's a televised awards show in Hollywood, conducted by foreign entertainment tabloid reporters. It's about trotting out stars whose faces on a magazine cover push high sales. Despite The Dark Knight being the most popular film of the year and terrifically well reviewed, there is no one in that cast to match the tabloid power of Pitt. Just look at the drama nominees...No Frozen River, no Milk, no The Wrestler. Frost/Nixon is apparently so damned good they can't ignore it. The others are good/average films whose stars pull audiences.
Yes, not nominating The Wire or Generation Kill is a travesty, but again, ones a show for black people and ones a show for marines, neither of whom combined have as much advertising revenue power as the audiences for even a show of Dexters scale. -
Can you guys post an awards news item without saying a single mother-loving word about the goddam Dark Knight???
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Dec 12, 2008 12:51:11 AM CST
I've had a couple of drinks, so ya' know what, TKD does suck....
by the dum guy
The whole Joker being in Wayne's penthouse and leaving doesn't make any sense, we need to know exactly what happens after Bats saves Rachel ('cause I wouldn't argue that another half-hour added on of film was a bad thing).I also have a problem with how the Joker can come up with such complicated plans, since in the comic he knows he's in a comic-book, so Ledger should've winked to the camera now and again just so we'd know he was 'in on the joke'.And, there are so many fucking plot holes, it reminds me how much of a shitty film Citizen Kane is, since no one was around to hear him say "Rosebud".I've seen the light of day (instead on Knight) and can understand how so many other movies that feature real life stories are more deserving of praise than The Dark Knight. I know I sure as hell loved Shakespeare In Love over Saving Private Ryan, since all that WW2 stuff was only backstory, when in fact there was a Bill Shakespeare, and he was most likely in love (I know most people on here don't like SIL, but it was kinda funny).Or, I'll admit it wasn't a perfect film, but it sure as hell beats Titanic.
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Wow. YOu may be the biggest loser ever on aintitcool. Iron Man as many people have said was fun, but nothng special. could have been done by anyone. TDK and yes even Batman Begins can be called art.
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The first thing I want to find out is whether there are films Academy Awards nominate that Golden Globes doesn't, & how shitty the latter would be looking like in comparison. So, um, here it is :
Sample taken from 2006 :
65th Golden Globe Best Motion Picture Nominees ( Drama ) :
Babel
Bobby
The Departed
Little Children
The Queen
79th Academy Awards Nominees - Best Picture
The Departed
Babel
Little Miss Sunshine
Letters from Iwo Jima
The Queen
So, at least two movies in the Golden Globe list ( Bobby, Little Children ), do not appear in the Academy Awards list ( Little Miss Sunshine, Letters from Iwo Jima - and what lame-ass sort of awards does NOT nominate ' Letters from Iwo Jima ' ?!? ). Not to mention the fact that , which I guess is most times, they've got different Best Picture winners. So, that's that.
Sure, it's pretty much established that the Golden Globes is a cesspool of an awards giving body ( even worsened by the apparent fact they snubbed THE DARK KNIGHT ! ); and so tend to pick the laughable, more inferior one compared to the Oscars. " Babel " over " The Department ". Let's even put aside the outright gut-wrenching offense of picking Atonement over ' No Country for Old Men ". What I wanna know, is this : has the Academy ever picked a best picture winner that WASN'T nominated by the dingy Golden Globes ? ' Coz that is what is gonna make things right in the world again.... This was as if Golden Globes snubbed ' No Country for Old Men ' -
OKAY, not really screw it. But still. It was a very good movie for an hour and a half. The last hour is extremely problematic. In fact, it falls apart. As soon as Dent turns into Two Face, it goes south in a big way and it's a shame. That having been said, very glad to see In Bruges get nominated, and particularly Gleeson and Farrel. I know the Globes are a farce, but getting a flick like Bruges more notice is always good. Plus glad Downey got a nod for Thunder. But where in the hell is the nom for It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?????
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You dumb ass. That fourth wall shit wasn't canon and only an idea. If you think for cinematics sake, him winking at the camera would be a good idea, then you are a fucking idiot.
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" The Dum Guy ", and others roll over and die, because the fricking Golden Globes say so .
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Some of your criticisms are founded. However, TDK is a far better film than the shitty made for TV Heat, and Iron Man, a completely slight, barely there by the rote comedy action film, which I practically forgot before it came to an end. Not before it Ended, but simply stopped and the credits started.
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I really liked it. Was it the greatest movie ever made? Hell, no. Was it an enjoyable 2 1/2 hours? I think so. Then again I didn't over analyze it. Can't you people just go watch a movie to be entertained? Or does everything have to be Citizen Kane?
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That statement is true. Just the other day I saw a billionaire wearing an iron suit being chased by fighter jets. It was crazy.
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nail on head about fanboy clowns waxing their cars to Dark Knight. They literally lose their shit when you say it wasn't Jesus on a flaming pie. It's because this movies makes them feel deep. Kind of like when the Matrix came out. Every dipstick in love with that mediocre flick thought they were some kind of freaking philosopher, that they were deep on account of they wore a duster... I now welcome fire.
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...Bruge would have a lock on Best Screenplay. At the academt awards at least it wont be competing against frost/nixon, so it might have a chance. Like I said though, the biggest, strangest omission is Melissa Leo. Unless Winslet gets one of the sympathy wins, Leo is probably the favourite.
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I was completely serious, I thought the film would've been even greater if they've done some Castle-like shit, and had a guy dressed as the Joker jumping out of the curtains with a fake Tommy-gun, shooting blanks at the audience.You obviously have no idea how to put on a good show or how to make a good movie, for if you had, you'd of agreed completely with what I typed.BTW, the Joker in comics does know he's in a comic, much like Deadpool knows he's a comic book character as well, and that's not just saying it would make for a good movie, because it would make for a GREAT MOVIE...
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahah
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I'll admit it was a bit underwhelming, but at this point in cinematic history I applaud Nolan's attempt at originality instead of throwing in the cliche'd done to death cringe and sleep inducing battle royal with the villain while trying to save the heroin with a gun to her head, slow motion oooooh aaaaaaah zzzzzzzzzzz
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All he did was replace the Heroine with a cute kid. Even worse.
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And the thing is, they sometimes cause me to devolve into an asshat myself. It IS just a difference of opinion, so it's kind of funny and sad when I get bent out of shape about it. Which I would tend to not do if it weren't for the CONSTANT browbeating and the recent too-frequent news posts involving the fucking thing. I just don't get how damn DEFENSIVE these guys are.
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That aren't even fucking out yet???
I know I live in the UK, and America basically takes the piss out of us with release dates, but even the UK award ceremonies have jumped on the bandwagon.
If the movie hasn't already been release worldwide then kindly fuck off and wait til next time. -
But once again I doubt the Oscars will reflect the Golden Globes.
I was surprised The Wrestler was not nominated in more categories. Same for Milk. I think both will be Best Picture nominees.
And - Mamma Mia? Wow. -
completely validates the entire set of quotes that Herc listed. the only reason he's on there is because he's parodying all of the studio execs that the Golden Globe doofuses have been shit on by for decades. I know awards shows are all pretty stupid, but jesus christ. way to go blowing the last tiny table scrap of credibility you had, Golden Globes. morons.and by the bye, you just fucked yourselves with the dark knight. if it's nominated for an Oscar, you'll look idiotic, and if it doesn't, you'll shoulder part of the blame. nice move.
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...comes the next milestone in motion picture history:
AVATAR - Fucking your eyeballs in 2009!
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Walter Goggins and Michael Chiklis in The Shield. What the fuck is wrong with the world when an important TV show is snubbed in this fashion?
Season 7 of The Shield was fuckin intense and the acting on this show equals anything I have seen on the big screen this year. The line between TV and Cinema is fadin more and more each year. -
Not arguing on behalf of the Globes or anything, but your fact-checking doesn't really work out. You point out that 2 of the 5 Oscar-nominated Best Pics that year weren't nom'd for Globes. But "Little Miss Sunshine" WAS nominated for Best Pic (just in the Musical/Comedy category instead of Drama) and "Letters from Iwo Jima" wasn't eligible for Best Pic because it was considered a Foreign Language Pic (which it won). The two organizations have different rules, which is also why WALL*E wasn't eligible for a Best Pic nom this year, due to its being animated. Just sayin'...
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Dec 12, 2008 3:55:02 AM CST
My only problem with TDK is the Joker being so ellaborated
by ricarleite
With schemes almost as over the top as Nicholson's Joker - and that is a guy that organized a fucking parade with baloons and gas. How did he set up the Dent/Rachel trap so well in advance? Up to the point he was arrested, he wanted to KILL Dent! How did he know exactly the time and location for the "I kill the bus driver" moment?
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What a well acted, well plotted piece of television. I won't say too much here, but I loved Vicky Christina Barcelona, but am surprised to see it getting such attention here. And it wasn't really a "comedy". Also, Tom Cruise getting a nomination for Tropic Thunder is just silly.
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The way they didn't get Blade Runner when it came out (for entirely different reasons). And when I say "don't get it," I mean exactly that -- I read every negative review and only one critic understood the relationship of the two levels of story (they all thought it was trying to be The Princess Bride and failing). It will be remembered as the best movie of the year, though.
Great to see love for In Bruges, currently 3rd on my list (Let the Right One In is 2nd). And for Dexter, which has edged past Pushing Daisies as the best thing on TV. And Californication, which might be 3rd. And for Neil Patrick Harris for How I Met Your Mother (most underrated show on TV).
The GG's provide a nice list of end-of-year movies to see (doing Milk tomorrow, then Slumdog Millionaire, and catching up on some others) and it's insane to get worked up over omissions like TDK (which may or may not be a great movie--I do plan to see it again in IMAX in January). -
The BAFTAS (British Oscars) are a bit like this. A huge leaning towards any project with literary origins (and I guess their definition of literary embraces novels but not graphic novels). A hint of snobbishness. Biography will do well too - Gandhi winning over ET etc. (though yes, I know that was in the Oscars). Awards NEVER really count for much, and with all this fuss about TDK being nominated we must remember that Star Wars was nommed in 1977 for a Best Picture Oscar. So it's not that big a deal.
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The bus driver moment was chance... and Maroni's men set up the dent/rachel trap on the jokers orders. did you not watch the film?
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Let's take two films from the 90s that, when you look back on the decade, seem to me at least like major American movies: Heat and The Big Lebowski. They don't have a SINGLE Oscar nom between them. And you know what the best part is? The lack of Oscars hasn't dented the reputation of these fine films one iota.
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Even Citizen Kane wasn't Citizen Kane originally, given the total lack of awards it was nominated for (admittedly probably due to a lot of external pressure) but it's now considered a classic.
I guess the worst thing that could happen to TDK at the end of the day, it's a film that didn't win awards (if at the end of the day it does not) but is highly acclaimed and made $1 billion in worldwide box office gross alone. -
Dec 12, 2008 6:05:24 AM CST
"if you're uninterested in what these "journalists" think, why c
by its a lion
Actually, I clicked only to read the talkback. I couldn't give two shits about the Golden Globes.
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50,000+ SUPPORTERS IN TWO WEEKS AND COUNTING!!!!! -
Normally, I am a HUGE geek when it comes to superhero movies. Because of one thing of another, I didn't get a chance to see Dark Knight until it came out on DVD. Day before yesterday in fact. Um .... don't mean to piss on any other fanboys. But I was HUGELY underwhelmed by the movie. It failed to live up to all the hype, which --- let's face it, really got stacked up to incredible proportions. And I DID like Heath Ledger's performance. And I AM sorry he's gone. But - Oscar-caliber? No. Posthumous doesn't guarantee that, and it didn't in this case either.
Based on the calibre of work he turned in from ALL his movies this year - RD Jr's time has come. I think he's earned all the kudos he can get. -
by mogul Randolph Hearst, who thought it was based on him. He didn‘t found that funny and maybe he destroyed even Orson Welles‘ way to real stardom
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While a seminal film deserving of praise, I don't think it's the greatest film ever. I'd give that award to Frank Capra's It's a Wonderful Life. Two different cinematic styles and two different views of humanity and America. Welles' a sort of psuedo-European take on America, Capra's a working class Italian-American take. I prefer Capra's.
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people talk about Iron Man being formulaic, but seriously you can walk down the checklist in the Dark Knight...yes it was good, but where there any surprises???..From the moment Dent/Rachael were kidnapped you KNEW how that would turn out,you knew what was going to happen with Gordon, you knew what would happen with the ferry...hell you could see the endings with harvey and fox and even the joker coming a mile away..
Good movie? YES Popular? Yes Best Picture?NO -
These awards are often hilarious, most assuredly wrong, and never, ever in line with my own opinions. Besides, most of these folks who vote on the awards are stuffed shirts who don't give two thirds of a shit about genre.
I think what we need here is a talkback forum, through the Oscars, where we talkbackers can spout off on our own top ten choices. Even give us separate talkbacks for specific awards.
What say you AICN mods? -
Golden Globes
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she could take a crap on a Manhattan Sidewalk and they would give her awards for it
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a bigger fan of Ironman than I am of TDK. Sonar vision, the tumbling batpod, and the overly perfect Joker plans were too much to swallow. TDK IS THE CITIZEN KANE OF OUR TIME?!?! That movie sucked too. Hell, almost every movie before 1970 sucked.
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...buncha fags.
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...have you tried to watch that thing when it comes on TBS or whatever? It's UNWATCHABLE! That "movie" win any award besides a Golden Turkey alone destroys any illusions of legitimacy that the Academy Awards ever had... and there's so many more legitimacy-destroying choices, it's not even funny. So, really, who gives a fuck what any of the incarnations of the F.ilm A.ctors G.uild think constitutes a good film?
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...right, and a guy flying around, transcontinentally mind you, in a rocket-powered suit, is total realism???
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I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one getting sick and tired of the constant bickering on either side of the TDK fence.A lot of people (can I say "most"? I think I can) really liked it.Some people liked it, but saw flaws in it.Some people didn't get it and therefore disliked it.Some people got it just fine, but still didn't like it.Some people just criticise it because it's cool to hate anything mainstream.Apart from the last group (who are idiots and should clearly be ignored), every group there represents a perfectly valid opinion. If people who hold different opinions debate them, that is normal and healthy. However, we all know that most talkbacks do NOT represent normal and healthy debate, but merely descend into childish playground taunting.Is it really so difficult to accept the opinions of others that you have to INSULT and ABUSE anyone who doesn't fall into your group? I believe that TDK is a GREAT movie and I believe this for a number of reasons. Unfortunately, the last time I went into these reasons, the typical abusive haters launched a tirade against me for being "pretentious", presumably because I used more than 12 words.So if anyone actually wants to DEBATE the merits of TDK let me know. Otherwise, let the children play...
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Dec 12, 2008 7:55:39 AM CST
you people aren't tired of having TDK's cock in your mouth ?
by jeanluc dickhard
get off it already ... that shit couldn't hold IronMan's jockstrap..
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Dec 12, 2008 8:11:24 AM CST
I'm more offended by Mamma Mia being nominated
by spifftacular squirrel girl
I thought TDK was great like most of you but I don't know if I can fault the movies that did get nominated for best drama. They all seem like solid choices.
The fact that somehow Mamma Mia got a nom is way over my head. It's just so mediocre. -
Dec 12, 2008 8:19:41 AM CST
Well, Mamma Mia! is a superior film to The Dark Knight.
by excaliburffolkes
Just kidding.
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The big dinner party, with Pat Leahy, where the Joker and goons crash looking for Dent and Joker subsequently throws Dawes out a window...and Batman follows...and he and Dawes fall to the street...and she says something cute like 'let's not do that again'...and that's the end of the scene...? Wasn't there a whole load of bad guys left alone with the defenseless rich? What happened to them? Did they leave? Was there a hostage situation? Were there deaths or any kidnappings? What happened!?! Please somebody explain to me how my having a problem with that is an example of me just not "getting it," and not a problem of the Nolan boys being lazy writers. I honestly could go on, but my problem was less an issue of holes as it was an issue of an overrought story that tried to fit way too much in, relied pretty heavily on cliche plot devices over actual character development, and could not decide between what level of reality it wanted to maintain.
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I just assumed that The Joker and his thugs got the hell out of dodge as soon as they were able to get rid of Batman. Why wait for Batman to come back or a SWAT team to show up and kick their asses? Especially considering they weren't able to find Dent in the first place?
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...The Joker and his goons turned around and left. Dent was hiding in the panic room, Bats dived out the window to save Rachel. Joker wasn't interested in a bunch of stuffed shirt rich people, holding them hostage at that point didn't fit his plans. Seems like a good enough explanation to me.
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Thanks for reaffirming it's masterpiece status asshats.
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What a pleasant surprise.
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doesn't make the hole go away. The fact remains that Batman leaped out a window to save one person leaving dozens defenseless, and the incident is not even sewn up with some bit of lazy dialogue (as in "all those people were lucky the Joker left when he had the chance"). It's just left there. The plot was done with it. The Joker got to learn that the Batman likes Dawes, which was the whole point of the scene in the first place. Once the storytellers had established that, there was no need to finish the scene. Or mention it again, accept to reiterate that the Joker learned the Batman liked Dawes. In other words, the whole scene was a meaningless device. There was no need for the guests to be there except to make it plausible that the Joker would show up in the first place. Once he showed up, they might as well have disappeared.
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Some of the debates on here get pretty silly (not just with TDK, but that is currently the best example). I just can't stand when people ASSUME that everyone loves a movie or hates a movie. I almost walked out of TDK. I am in the minority, obviously. I have no desire to change the opinions of those who love the movie - writing a laundry list of the problems that I have with it will not change anyone's mind about it. "Debating" the merits of a film seems pretty useless, but there is nothing wrong with good healthy discussion.
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Well, it was a kinda random sampling I did there ( and , thank you for that ), but I was just trying to illustrate a larger question of whether a film not nominated by Golden Globes but was so by the Academy ever won Best Picture. ' Coz, like you said, it's always that the prospective Best Picture would be most times included in BOTH their list ? " The Dark Knight " is not there in any capacity. That's kinda very worrying as far as it's Oscar prospects are concert. It's kinda disturbing, if you will....
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I don't think people who like The Dark Knight are pretentious. I think they've been overcome by a combination of factors: a desire for it to be great (which I definitely shared before seeing it); a sentimentality over the death of a real talent (understandable); and an unhealthy reverance for the skill and taste of a filmmaker who has continually gotten by on tone and ambiance in the place of honest and rich storytelling.
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Dec 12, 2008 9:21:34 AM CST
I wonder if Herc had posted these negative comments...
by derlanghaarige
...on the Globes if TDK has been nominated as best pictures. It's paradox. The Globe jury is a bunch of drunken cocksuckers, but you are still angry that these drunken cocksuckers don't have the same taste in movies like you?
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I guess that our journos do not like foreign journos and their obscure publications.... The problem with the Globes as being a dirty little secret is that all the other domestic shows especially the Academy Awards are no better. I know we all love Dark Knight.... but fuck off already with the GG bias.
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What a complete douche you are. You're the pretentious cocksucker. TDK is great. Your tiny brain just can't comprehend it.
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Nolan could have avoided all our bitching if he had not ended the scene with Batman and Rachel sharing a "moment" on top of a crushed car. Batman would have been on his feet immediately and calculating which exit the Joker and his cronies would be using to get out of the building. WWBD? He would have been doing his job, not making smalltalk with his girlfriend while the Joker gets away.
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due to legal issues, the next scene was an insert of Batman getting back to the party only to find that it had somehow turned into the orgy scene from Eyes Wide Shut.
The Kubrick estate declined to comment. -
Um, I'm rubber and you're glue. To this day, I've not heard a very compelling argument for why people like TDK based solely on its merits. I've heard about the look and sound of the film, which I agree are good. I've heard about how good Ledger was, a point with which I also agree. I've heard that it's a great story, a point that I find to be demostrably false. The story, in fact, has problems on so many levels--be they pacing, character development, the implementaion of cheap devices, or rampant suspension of disbelief in a movie that's supposedly set in a 'real world environment'--that it's difficult for me to not assume the pleasure people take from the movie is not grounded in the rational.
That being said, if you object to my little psychoanalysis of why people forgive or ignore the miriad flaws in the film, well then I hope you will accept my apology. Bad taste, afterall, is not always the result of pathology. I shouldn't treat it as such.
And don't get mad at me because I said you had bad taste. Allow for a little bit of snark, and don't take things too personally. -
...you mean with all the goons unconscious (Batman beat them down remember? He's pretty good at what he does), no Dent and the cops coming (remember Wuertz would have called backup at the first opportunity)? The Joker did what most do after trying to kill someone. He left. Granted a simple oncoming siren over "Let's not do that again" (No mop up scene, pacing) could have hinted at safety but then if you're trying to catch someone like the Joker would you risk a siren?
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Why do you have to be such a nit-picker? The Joker was only running wild--and maybe killing people--in Bruce Wayne's apartment! Have you even read the comics? That's so not the sort of thing the Batman would care about. ;)
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What is so hard for you pedantic fucks to understand about this. Joker went looking for Dent becasue he thought he was Batman. Batman hid Dent in a safe place out of Joker's grasp. Batman jumps out the window to save Rachel and Dent is no where to be found. Cut to Joker leaving the party in a car saying he was still going to kill Dent. What do you fucking want? Batman had just saved thew woman he loved and fell off a building. like he's goign to run after the Joker's car i nthat condition? Get fucking real.
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Why are you taking it upon yourself to change peoples' minds about this movie? You act like people are *forcing* you to step in and clear things up for them. You're obviously a highly rational guy - I don't see why you would want to keep banging your head against a wall. As for the results of your previous TDK talkback appearance, if all they did was call you "pretentious", you got off easy. You did some serious ear-boxing on that one guy - condescending to him in grand form, making sure he knew his intellect was inferior to yours, and then scolding him for somehow making you do it. In truth, you did a little bit of "insulting" and "abusing", yourself, and you're behaving like a martyr about it. Lighten up, man! This is not real life, here.
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Either or.
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...kinda worrying as far as its Oscar prospects are concerned.
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You're dead wrong on all your complaints. The pacing was good, the character development and story are the strength of the film. I don't know what you refer to as cheap devices and what was so hard to believe i nthe film. i honestly don't.
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Look at the bullshit name-calling I just got from the defenders after the comment I made about the party. I noticed you didn't really mention these kinds of TDK supporters on your list. Are these the guys you want to align yourself with?
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I really can't see any of the plothole(s) evidence as plot holes at all.
Plot holes are exactly that holes, dead space without logically fitting into the plot without explanation. but every plot hole I see brought has a pretty clear explanation for it.
I think Nolan doesn't want to treat his audience a stupid and have everything spelled out for them, you can use your imagination.
For instance, for there only being one cop in the interrogation room with the joker. He was one of the only cops that Gordon KNEW wasn't corrupt, you through three or four in their, who do you know ones not on the take. I'll give you that joker should have been shackled though.
JOker left after batman jumped after rachel, simply because he thought dent was batman at that point.
Theres a difference between not liking something and it not being good. I'm don't like Mozart, but I can't say it's bad.
The joker, doesn't care about anything but causing chaos, thats his goal, and he won. he just wants to see the city burn, he's psychotic, but also a genius.
thats one of the reasons why I think the film is so great, the Joker wins. -
Of course it's me that's wrong. Seeing as you put up such an airtight defense, on par with 'It and everything about it was awesome, now shut-up,' I can't imagine how I still find myself somewhat unconvinced. That's okay, though, it's neither of our jobs to convince the other that we're right. I do wish you would attempt to make a more complex argument though, if you feel so strongly about it, I mean. In the end, I can patronize you and tell you that you're right, or I can respectfully disagree. I'm going to try to do the latter. Good day.
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Wow. Are people really that pissed off at that scene?! I mean, you've got to be kidding, right? I've yet to hear one legitimate reason why that scene is such a bone of contention. It would barely qualify as a blip on the radar screen for another movie and yet it somehow gets blown up into a massive plot hole in TDK. Come on. For those who seem intent on slagging TDK (a great movie that is not above criticism), try not to look like you are simply for the sake of doing so.
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Goodness gracious, dude, it's not spoon feeding the audience to carry a scene, like the much discussed party, to its natural end. As Mosquito said before, Batman would not hang out on a car sharing a moment with a lady while a murderous gang was in his proximity. He would jump into action. He might not catch them, but he sure as hell wouldn't hang out on a car and hope the cops would take care of things. At the very least, he would return to the apartment to ensure the safety of those he left behind when he dove out the window. Instead, he comes off as somebody entirely uninterested in anything but Dawes even after he'd ensured her safety.
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Not that I would have watched a fucking awards show anyway.
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Might be a little hard to do after falling several stories and absorbing the weight of another human being as you slam into the top of a car. Despite Batman's armored suit, I'm gonna have to say that he probably had the wind knocked out of his sails.
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As the person who very well may have introduced the scene in question into the talkback, let the record show that I did so only to provide an example of a plot hole, which it unquestionably is. That being said, I don't necessarily view it as a bigger mistake than, say, devoting so much screentime to the unnecessary Hong Kong subplot, or throwing continuity to the wind by recasting Dawes and the city of Gotham, or giving the Joker such an incredible introduction (with the pencil trick) and then never coming close to matching that lunacy and intensity for the rest of the movie (a fault of the writing not the acting), or, what bothered me most initially, the total wasted arc of Harvey Dent.
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...I'm not going to tell you whether or not I liked this movie or that movie...I'm trying to find the quickest way to not be nearly as kewl as you guys and since half of you are saying TDK was a masterpiece and the other half are saying it sucked. You guys are just way too kewl for skewl and for me.Now, I will say that I bought the DK blu-ray and I'm also not rich. Should I have gotten a check or something? Are winning lotto tickets sold with Blu-ray players cause I didn't get one. Although my player did cost over thirty-seven thousand dollars (it's made of gold and diamonds and pixie dust, which is like $3000 per pound last time I checked).
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prettier women set to music. I don't care if you're in Greece. Trailer trash has a baby, but not sure who the daddy is because she was boinking three dudes. This is one step above Maury Povitch.
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The Hong Kong subplot - you need to watch the Joker's meeting with the Mob again and pay special attention to Lau's relationshiop to Wayne. Also, the Hong Kong scene illustrates how Batman has no jurisdiction - his reach goes beyond Gotham City. Crucial for a feared crimefight, wouldn't you say?The recasting of Dawes - who cares. The studio didn't like Holmes and the character wasn't refined enough for the actresses to make a difference.The city of Gotham - uh, it's still the same city except this time we got to see more of the downtown/metropolitan areas instead of the establishing train shots or the Narrows.The Joker's pencil trick and lunacy - how many handbuzzers and acid-shooting lapel flowers would it take to show how someone could throw an entire city into chaos? No, I believe the intensity was there and it was a more disturbing kind of lunacy; one that inspired fear and not gags.Dent's arc - well, that's certainly open to criticism as it was a matter of story focus and compression. But I think we all would have liked to have seen a little more of Harvey Two-Face.
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'Cause I bought the same player you did, but I got the upgraded one that dispenses hot cocoa and cold beer.
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I would certainly characterize them as 'weak plot points' in the very minor. Personally, I had no complaints, I loved the film and saw it three times. But I can see how people perceive the final act as a bit contrived. Simply because a) Harvey Dent's reaction went pretty far beyond the realm of reasonable reaction to tragedy. b) it went far enough beyond the realm of expected or predictable reaction to tragedy for Joker to have counted that as a reliable master plan.
Nice people have loved ones murdered all the time and they pretty rarely react by becoming homicidal maniacs. When assembling a diabolical master plan, counting on a variable as abstract as that is pretty illogical and contrary to everything he'd done so far with such exacting precision. But again, the movie was so great I was willing to let it slide. Might not be the same case though for D.B.s -
Dec 12, 2008 11:32:06 AM CST
Jumping in to the Dark Knight debate it was a good fun movie but
by spike fan
the greatest film ever. Ledger though does deserve his nomination.
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I thought it was too long and thats not disliking long films (I love Lord of the Rings extended editions) but it should have ended with Dent becoming Two face and setting him up for the villian to be stopped/redemmed for the next one.
As it is its ridiclous him going around threatning Gordorns children while sparing the guy who DID scar him and murder his girlfriend then just dying.
People are also talking about a dark grittyness to the film but was there anything more cheessy and groan inducing than the ferry scene complete with nobel prisoners or the fact Batman manages to rescue every caputred cop dressed up like Jokers criminals with out 1 being killed!!!! Surely I was not the only who groaned through that scene???? Or Gordons pointless fake out death being revealed!!!
Then there is the issue of why he saved the Joker from his fall considering he did not save Liam Neeson in Begins or Harvey at the end. Then you realise that its cause Nolan was probably going to use Heath/Joker in the next film which takes you out of the whole experience.
For me it was an enjoyable film and Heath Legder owned every scene he was in but it was a fun movie and certainly not in my top ten.
But like I -
...Well, people experience entertainment on different levels, guy. Just because most of us can't hope to attain your apparently rarified intellectual level vis a vis viewing a film, that's no reason to denigrate us. A lot of people liked The Dark Knight immensely... you didn't. That's life.
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i guess 'TDK hate' is the vogue of the day. simply put, the film is brilliant and was wrongfully snubbed here. true, it's only the globes, but a snub's a snub. oh, and rdj for the win.
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Just expressing my opinion. If you love it good for you. I was not trying to put you down or say my opinion is better than yours.
If you read my post you would see I thought it was fun and enjoyable just not brilliant. -
Condescention aside, I'm not saying that I didn't understand the Hong Kong thing, I'm saying that it didn't work for me. I don't need to watch it again, I understood what was going on. I simply feel that it was not an integral sequence, and by devoting so much screen time to going to get Lau other aspects of the film (e.g. trying to establish Maggie G. as the same Rachel Dawes from Begins; or trying to really build up the Dawes / Dent angle; or scenes that hint towards the notion that Dent was faintly deranged and prone to a psychotic break; or developing any other character or tonal progression that might help to actually inform the movie as a whole. In the end, the only thing Hong Kong did to advance the plot was introduce that lame sonar thing, which ended up being nothing more than a didactic lesson in the evils of wiretapping.
As for the recasting of Dawes, I understand why people didn't like Holmes in Begins (she was miscast!), but recasting a role that needn't even be in the movie rarely works. (Did we really need the love triangle? Was the requisite superhero sequel 'I don't want to be Batman I want to be with my lady' crap really necessary?)
Gotham...Yes I know both movies were shot in Chicago, but go back and look at Begins, look at the big matte paintings of that Gotham, look at the grit of the (unmentioned in TDK) Narrows. In Begins, Nolan made the decision to set Batman in a world like ours, but one in which a man dressing up as a bat was somewhat conceivable. In TDK, it's Chicago. That's a tonal shift.
As for the pencil trick, I don't need pranks ala Tim Burton, but I don't think a higher body count would be too much to ask. As a matter of fact, when the faceless guy in the press conference shouts out to Dent, "Things are worse than ever now" all I could think is, they are??? Did none of the people at that press conference live in the Gotham from Begins?
I'm sure we more or less agree on Dent, it clearly upset me more than you, but I think we at least agree that, in the simplest of terms, that could have been handled better. -
My "anti-abuse" comments were not directed at any particular group and CERTAINLY include pro-TDK people. No one should get abuse for their opinion, whatever it is and the abusive name-calling being slung your way is definitely uncalled for and wrong.As for my previous talkback comment, yes I did lay into that guy pretty heavily (maybe too heavily, I'll admit), but I do not think I was "abusive" in any way towards him. Remember, this concept of "debate" I long for does not preclude you from saying that you think someone else is wrong - AS LONG AS you can back up your claim. He made a number of statements to the effect that TDK was poorly written. I did not agree with him, I said so and backed it up by referring back to the same scenes in the film that he referenced. Clearly this stance of believing myself to be right would come out in the tone of my comments, but not once did I insult him, call him names or even swear. Sure, I might have chucked in a couple of sarcastic asides, but is that really so malicious? To me this had the makings of a decent debate if he had got back to me, ultimately cut short by a slew of insults and the talkback itself getting archived (always an issue).Also, since when does "debate" necessitate the intention to change the other person's mind? Surely the whole starting point of debate is that the participants' opinions differ? If we debated right now (about TDK or anything else), I would not expect to change your mind, just as you would not expect to change mine. The fact that the ultimate result would be "agree to disagree" doesn't make debate futile. Debate doesn't need a winner!
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I've not denigrated you. I've denigrated Christopher Nolan. That's not the same thing. I've not told you not to like it. My original post with regard to this was simply a prediction that the movie would not age well with a lot of people who today think it is brilliant. Later, because somebody was insisting that everybody who hated the film spoke in mere generalities, I brought up a specific instance in which the film was, in my opinion, quite weak. I did later suggest that the positive reaction was not based on the film's merits, and gave a few obvious hypotheticals as to what people were truly responding to (namely their desire, expectations, and sentimentality), but that still doesn't qualify as denigration. I did say that Hobo has bad taste, but that's because he was mean to me first. You have to give me a little latitude.
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What I was trying to say was that other, more important elements of the story suffered with the focus on drawn to Hong Kong, a sequence that was RELATIVELY speaking unnecessary.
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WITH PROBLEMS TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION.
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IN TDK
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And no, Ledger was not the only award-worthy thing about the film. I think most aspects of the film are (music, director, cinematography, costume, etc), and will be nominated for Oscars.
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...in the follow-up. How else are we gonna have hope of something even BETTER from Chris Nolan and company.
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selected by a bunch of French fucks? they are so stuck up they insist on three hours of tedium being superior "art" to TDK or Wall-E, with the odd indulgence of something distinctly French (ie homosexual) with a Swedish pop soundtrack. BTW, Heath has won it, for if a live actor actually gets that award they will be expected to dedicate it to Heath, a la Ving Rhames when he did that thing where he gave the award to Jack Lemmon for some obscure reason
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would be the one you enjoyed the most. for me, difficult to pick one from Wall-E, The Dark Knight and Iron Man.
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Expect Magneto to show up an ruin the festivities.
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Really, fuck the Golden Globes. TDK was the best movie of the year. Mama Mia was better than TDK? Fuck that shit!!!!
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and have gambit be a presenter. right after he announces the winner, he can throw a kinetically charged envelope at brett ratner.
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SHIT! And I'm out of the 30 day period where I can return mine for the newer version! Altho, you might want to check your own cause I hear the newer version of the gem and gold encrusted blu-ray players models will be dispensing not only hot cocoa and cold beer but watching blu-rays on them will actually increase your musculature and your dexterity as well as your hand-eye coordination and your cardiovascular. It's a bit steep at msrp of $75,000 but where else can you ENJOY watching TDK and also turn into a super-ninja? While drinking either hot cocoa or cold beer?Antics aside...after finally seeing TDK (flippin sweet on blu by the way), I must say that Ledger's performance was simply amazing. Perhaps I'm biased due to the dude's fucking tragically untimely death but I've got to say that it is one of the greatest villain performances I've seen in a movie in 20 years easily! If not longer.I disagree with the plot-holers as I think it's quite easy to run with your take and dismiss things out of hand that might disprove your theory. I mean, unless you've got dry-erase boards filled with storyboards and scene information, as well as the original script and some of the original story-boards, plus notes from Nolan, et al, my guess is you're either exaggerating the plot holes a bit, completely making shit up, have missed something, etc. You could say some of the scenes were extraneous or even a slight bit implausible (particularly the Dent descent from 'White Night' to lunatic bent on revenge) but I wouldn't call them plot holes.Also, according to IMDB, Nolan offered the part of Rachel Dawes to Katie Holmes and she turned it down preferring to do "Mad Money" or whatever that forgotten idiocy was. I'm not sure if it was just a case of the studio not liking Holmes.My only problems after 2 viewings (spoilers): Batman's response to the Joker during the ferry finale and Batman's speech to Harvey right at the end. Odd, but I felt that Bale (as Batman) had the 2 worst lines in the whole movie but it wasn't cringe-inducing or even overtly bad, just a slight miss. I do not think Maggie Gyllenhall is remotely attractive ("And you ARE beautiful!") but she's a far better actor than Holmes. The last line she says to Dent just before the explosion is what I think drives him over the edge. I can also see how maybe Dent had a pre-existing 'two sides' where one was the white night and the other was more aggressive and more 'ends justify the means' (especially the initial Dent interrogation scene after Gordon's "death") .All that said, I'm still dwelling on Ledger's excellent performance and how perfect a character he created with this Joker. I'm sure the comic purists would disagree (though my guess is Ledger is far closer to the real Joker than Nicholson) but the whole "agent of chaos" thing was brilliant in my mind. Also, to the question of how can an agent of chaos have a "plan" if he's an agent of chaos? Well, that's because I think true chaos is a destination and must be arrived at...thus the Joker had a "plan" to create chaos. If he was chaos personified, he wouldn't have spoken to anybody or did anything that was remotely close to normal human behaviour (like speaking, dressing, walking, interacting, etc)...but that's just me...Personally, I think TDK just might be the best super-hero movie ever! And most of that is due to Ledger's performance, no question.
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Not that anybody wants to hear any more of this from me, but I am at work, and need something to fill my time...Anyhow, to bounce off of what Darth Macchio said, I'll try and make a quick sketch of my initial reaction to the film. Like everybody else, I had followed the film forever, watched all the viral stuff, loved all or most of the promotional materials, watched the billboard of Ledger looking over his shoulder get put up over Houston Street...I cannot express how much I wanted to see this; I can only assume many of you felt the same way. A friend of mine saw it in LA at the first midnight viewing and texted me at 5 o'clock ET with one word "Epic." I left work early, and saw the movie the afternoon of opening day. When I came out, I felt like I'd been punched in the gut. It was, and still is, incomprehensible to me how many times they zigged when they should've zagged on this one. While I found it to be incredibly well-produced and occasionally brilliantly acted, I also found it to be bloated, poorly structured, horribly written, and a lazy bore. And I guess I did take it personally. I think that's something all of the TDK lovers misunderstand about a lot of the so-called haters: we wanted to like it, too. Before going in, I couldn't imagine not liking it. Two and a half hours later, as silly as it sounds, I felt betrayed, robbed. Everybody knows the feeling. If you didn't get it this time, I'm honestly happy for you, but trust me when I say I think you'll get it sooner or later. The movie is simply not that good. It's probably not as bad as I say it is, but it is without a doubt no where near as good as it should have been.
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Spot on.
Ultimately TDK was an incredibly SMART film, in that Nolan didn't try to dumb it down, by saying there was too much going on, everything fits nicely together, and all the themes played out within the characters and the story really well.
Lau was incredibly important to the story, it was how they connected the dots and were able to arrest all the mobsters, by bringing him in.
It was easily, easily one of the best pictures of the year, if not THE best picture, you can't rally say it was ONE thing only, a super her movie.
Two face should have more screen time though.
as far as plot holes go. the only one I saw, that can't be pretty obviously explained is when the joker pulls the school bus out into street from the hole in the bank. I think it was more to show the blatancy of the joker, but still.
the godfather was a near perfect film and a masterpiece, but sonny getting shot hundreds of times with tommy guns and still standing for a far too long a time, didn't make it any less a brilliant piece of film -
You're delusional. It was a good movie, but ultimately there have been better movies this year, I'd hate to tell you.
That being said I agree with the above assessment of the golden globes. It's a mess. -
When bedridden, deformed Harvey Dent reminds Gordon that he used to be called two-face. Talk about unnecessary.
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just happened across it with no preconceptions or clue what it was. Fantastic.
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All you haters have changed my mind! TDK was terrible, right? And for so many microscopic reasons, like the ones you keep whining about here. Let me add; the shade of purple Joker wore was a red-purple, when clearly it should've been a blue-purple. Michael Caine was 2.3 inches too tall to play Alfred, and what was up with those shoes Gordon wore? You only saw them twice, but they were square-toed! Ha! Gordon never wore square-toed shoes before! And like Novaman said; why the Two-Face line? God, that sucked right! And remember when Morgan Freeman made a joke about a submarine? That wasn't needed in the film, either!! Lucius Fox would never joke about submarines with Bruce Wayne in Hong Kong. God! Jesus, once you pick the film apart, I see now how you haters could've made this movie 1000% better! Who does Chris Nolan think he is, making a Batman movie this terrible? When clearly, the AICN talkback haters could've done soooooo much better. Where do so many people get off liking this movie? Continue on tearing it apart, by all means. It's so enlightening.
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Every other character was just there for background.Put a lesser actor in Ledger's role, the movie would have been a huge dissappointment.It didn't help the rest of the film that Ledger's Joker was so mesmerizing and intriguing--when he was not on screen, everything else seemed pretty mundane. And Nolan's dry, emotionless delivery, nearly unintelligible voice really widened that gap.
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cold medicine numbs the mind....
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"Chop'em up and feed'em too his pooches. That way he can see just how loyal a hungry dog really is."
No offense but if you think the writing in TDK is bad you are fucking moron. End of story.
And come on Nova. That line is only unnecessary if you're a raging fanboy. You're better than that -
...actually I do get it. I don't think any of you were looking to hate this film going in and, honestly, it's probably unfortunate that you did not get the same experience from the film as those who love it did (forgive my dreadful grammar!). It's the same for movies like Transformers and the upcoming Watchmen. The reason all of us argue one way or the other invariably starts with each of us, being movie geeks after all, wanting to enjoy if not love these movies. I just saw TDK for the first time 3 days ago, avoiding all spoilers, sucky-noisy movie theaters, and all talk and all reviews but even then I felt the hype meter was a bit high thru no fault of the film.So to well reasoned individuals like 'funwithwords' et al, I think outside of a few, we know you guys wanted to love this movie and that you did not come to your opinions from anything other than your natural reaction to the movie. We can argue the semantics of plot holes, etc, all day long but I do feel TDK is one of the best comic book movies and in a way, it sucks that it didn't do for you guys what it did for so many others.Personally, I'm still a bit overwhelmed by Ledger's performance...I think it completely transcended that movie and brought it out of just being good to being something much more.I really do not envy Nolan the task of coming up with the third film...the studio will give it to us, Nolan or not, but if anyone else gets it it will be ASS for sure and even if Nolan gets it (which he will if he wants it and scheduling permits) he's already said he's worried about it and that it's traditional for the 3rd part of a trilogy to suck shaved moth balls and he won't do it if the story doesn't carry these characters along in a meaningful way...here's to hoping someone comes up with meaningful way but I will always miss the potential Ledger could have brought...it's bittersweet, really.
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"I'm not a monster, just ahead of the curve" Not only a fair encapsulation of the point of the Joker but also the only true thing he says in the entire film.
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I think you mean Bale and not Noland fucktard. If you cannot type, then do not enter the talk back.
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I think you mean Bale and not Nolan fucktard. If you cannot type, then do not enter the talk back.
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How did a movie geek website cultivate a community that didn't like Dark Knight or Wall-E?
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No, honestly we do. Here's to hoping that Obama sees the same sense I do, orders the building of several special 'cinemas', invites the TDK haters to special screenings of Avatar (which will be fucking our eyeballs in 2009 remember!) and then orders the gas to be pumped in.Okay, that was a bit mean. Perhaps he should just order them flogged in public or something.
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Let me explain some shit to you:
1) Lau and Hong Kong was very important to the plot. It shows, along with the meeting, how far crime has stretched in Gotham City. How big the network is, it even extends to other countries. You cannot just throw the mob boss in Jail and be done with it.
It also shows what old crime is (Money, Social and Political Power, Exploitation) as oppose to new crime Crane and Joker represent. (Anarchy, Chaos, Selfishness, Brutality).
Rachel was also important. She was the only shred of normalcy for Bruce, the potential light at the end of the tunnel. Remember, this is still in his first years. Bruce thinks that once he inspires people like Dent he can just retire until he is needed again. With new crime blowing that dream for hell, it solidifies Batman into being the Dark Knight and knowing he will do this until he dies. He is a necessity for Gotham, not just a patch.
Lastly, yes things were getting worse than ever. Under Carmine's rule, people were bankrupted but life still went on. People were killed, but they were nobodies. The fat cats being payed off things were well.
With Raz, the Joker and Crane, people were getting bumped off all the time for no logic or reason. They were just being killed for the fun of it or as the thought at the time, because they wanted to challenge the Batman. They think that because Batman has shown up (I mean right after that is when Ras attacked Gotham) that he is attracting this new crime to the city. Plus he has been breaking various laws, they want to put him under. Batman is and will always be, a necessary evil.
Too bad your brain was to small to understand this shit. -
Your problems with this film are based on 'matter of interpretation’/ differences of opinion on script “validness"? Pretty much all of what you all consider to be "plot-holes" have been successfully refuted by various logical, if not un-debatable arguments. Are you familiar with the phrase: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? Need I point out that TDK rates a 94% positive rating on Rotten Tomatoes? Are you seriously going to suggest that your nit-picky-ill-informed/un-film-educated "opinions" outweigh 262 professional/semi-professional/agenda-driven-jerkoff's OPINIONS? I submit that you are masturbating to a self-indulgent assessment of the value of your personal opinion.
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Heath is nominated and that is all that it should have been nominated for. He was great, when he wasn't on film it was just a comic book movie, nothing more. Talk all you want about how it was so far above any other comic book movie and was so revolutionary but I didn't see it like many others didn't. Sin City was a great comic book movie that broke new ground. TDK had moments but enough of them to be great or nominated film.
I agree with everyone who liked Iron Man better than Dark Knight. It may not be a great film but it was entertaining. Dark Knight was too long and far to many plot holes.
Saying that the film made the most money means it was popular with more people shows that you know not of what you speak. Fan boys went to see it many times, on IMAX costing three times as much as a normal movie, the same way that girls went to see Titanic over and over and over again. If we could actually know how many different people saw it we would see that the number isn't as big as you think it is.
In the end though I also agree with those who say how does this matter? If you like a flick then it's already won. Empire Strikes Back didn't get nominated or lost to that English film about running for an Oscar, I don't remember it for sure. I was so mad when I was young but now I am older and wiser I understand that popular films are not the ones that necessarily win awards. -
You are a precise example of the self-import, "infatuated with your own opinions" jackass I was referring to in my last.
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Believe me, I understand the arguments in favor of the movie not sucking. I'm not dense. While I admit to finding some of the decisions incomprehensible, I do not find the plot that way. I find the plot simple and familiar enough. I think it's bloated, and I think it's fair to argue that some of the things I felt did not work (Hong Kong or Rachel Dawes, for instance) would have worked better if the filmmakers had decided not to stuff so much into this single movie. One of the many sad what-ifs I've held to since walking out of the theater all those months ago, is what if they had decided to hold off on transforming Dent into Harvey Two-Face until the end of the movie, and that 'I thought you were dead' 'Half' scene was a tease at the end of the credits. I'm not suggesting that the movie was too long, I'm suggesting that it was too full of too much stuff, and since there wasn't enough time for all of it, too much of it felt utterly wasted to me. Couldn't they have figured out a way to make the killing of Dawes the climax? Think of how much a little extra time could have done in terms of developing her relationship with Dent, and really establishing Dent as a flesh and blood, heroic character, how much more tragic his fall would have been had the film ended with his being burned. And the whole end sequence in which Batman and Gordon decide that Batman has to take the blame for Harvey's crimes? What the hell is that about? There aren't enough scapegoats out their in the murderous gang that has been terrorizing the city? Why not just have the murders go unsolved? Why would the people of Gotham need to blame anybody for that? I mean, I understand the role it plays in the particular narrative the Nolan's established, I simply question its implementation. In the end, that's my whole problem with TDK, it's not all that complicated, it's not all that smart (what a gloriously condescending concept, the second highest grossing film of all time is simply too smart for me!), it's that the planets were aligned for this film to be great, but time and time again the Nolans made dumb choices that weighed the thing down. Obviously not everybody agrees with me. I've suffered through that reality before.
As for Skyway Moaters:
Are you seriously asking me if I cherish my opinion over that of the Tomatometer? I should hope so! -
If you value your opinion over the "tomato-meter" you are a self important jack-hole. I'm not saying you should AGREE with the "tomato-meter", merely that you are a moron if you think that your OPINION carries more "weight".
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My biggest problem was the writing. It was just clunky in so many places. For a movie that tried so hard to feel real world, everybody outside of the main characters talked like they were from a bad cartoon.
My biggest problem was the writing. It was just clunky in so many places. For a movie that tried so hard to feel real world, the dialogue just did not deliver. And everybody outside of the main characters talked like they were from a bad cartoon. The ferry scene was just awful (you mean the big scary-looking black guy is NOT going to blow up the boat?! That goes against everything I've ever learned about black people!). The press conference scene was awful. Everything about the sonar gag was retarded, as was the notion of pulling a fingerprint from a bullet hole in a wall. I understand that they were trying to give Batman technology that the cops wouldn't have access to, but what they came up with was ridiculous. Bruce Wayne showing up to rescue the cops at the parade (instead of Batman) was retarded (good thing those cops were blindfolded!) It reeked of a scene that was originally intended to frame Batman as he stood at the window, but had to later be changed. I was not blown away by Ledger, and think other actors could have done better. Maggie Gyllenhal was terrible in pretty much every scene she was in (which surprised me). It had some great scenes (the bank heist, Batman going after Lau, Joker's interrogation to name a few) but overall it was not a great movie. All of you apologists will realize this when you find yourselves skipping over parts of the DVD to get to the scenes you like. It might be the best of the comic book movies, but to compare this movie to a classic like "Heat" is patently absurd. It had some great scenes (the bank heist, Batman going after Lau, Joker's interrogation to name a few) but overall it was not a great movie. All of you apologists will realize this when you find yourselves skipping over parts of the DVD to get to the scenes you like. -
If ever there were an intellectually dishonest argument! Sure, it works wonders when you agree with the meter, but god forbid something you like falls below 90%! Besides, if you're going to use quotes, it'd be helpful to put words I use in quotes. What I said is that I cherish my opinion over the Tomato-meter. I don't know how one would begin to judge which carries more metaphoric "weight." How do you measure the lifting ability of such a thing? On a separate line of thought, why is it, do you think, that you feel so compelled towards reactionary and inflamatory language? Jack-hole? Moron? Elsewhere you call somebody jackass. I mean WTF? I don't know whether you're an adult or not, but couldn't you make the attempt to act like one? I mean, I'm not insulting your mother, I'm offering a critique of a film you like. You're more than welcome to disagree. You can scan through all of the comments I've made and the most inflammatory thing I've said was that I thought people's reaction to the film was based in part on Ledger's great performance and in part on the sentimentality they feel towards the fact that it is his last great performance. You may think that I over analyse or nit-pick, that's a fair argument, I suppose. I could just as easily, and I guess I implicitly have, say that you are too forgiving and are not critical enough. But I don't call you an idiot. And if you want to know a secret, that's why I win this argument. That, and the fact that I am right. ;)
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No offence, but I value my opinion above those of strangers who've voted on a 'tomato-meter.' What I think is right for me, and I wasn't a fan of the film. If the majority liked it... fuck, good for them. But I formulate my opinion rather than have theirs formulate mine.
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Seems you cannot type, nor can you read--I typed a correction right after it, fucktard.If you cannot type or read, do not enter the talkback. Everybody knows "you don't go full fucktard"
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I'm obviously a stupid clueless moron. Because as much as I know about cinema; as many films as I've seen and sometimes obsessed over in my 42 years of film watching, (can't count anything before age 5) and pretty much universal critical acclaim of TDK, I think TDK is fucking brilliant. Thanks for setting me straight.
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Go stroke your ego elsewhere.
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Cut out the hate, chaps. If you liked the film, fine. If you didn't, fine. Don't be a dickhead.
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Surprise surprise, I agree with a lot of what you said. One thing in particular that nobody really says, Maggie Gyllenhal's performance was really underwhelming. A lot of that I put on the writing too, though. The most painful moment of the movie was where she was amazed that Dent came up with a supposedly brilliant idea to charge an organized crime syndicate under RICO laws (You think!?!). She was essentially forced to repeat a line that Dent had said when she was out of the room, and I remember it being one of the early moments of me being taken completely out of the movie.
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What I factually SAID, is that I don't suggest that you AGREE with the "tomato meter", only that you don't suck the dick of your own limited experience/educational/IQ experience of a film over the opinions of people who are PAID for their opinions about films.
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its nothing short of that. it was a great movie.
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maybe when The Watchmen comes out, you'll realize the irony of calling somebody a moron for holding their own opinion in higher esteem than the Tomato-meter. Although, hopefully that movie will be good.
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So if I got paid 50p to write a review, my opinion would mean more than yours? Good to know. I'll go test that theory.
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... all I'm trying to say is don't get too caught up in your own perceptions. It's FINE to say that you didn't like TDK. But to say that it's a "bad movie" is just self indulgent ego maniacal bullshit.
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Don't give Skyway any of your time, he's clearly operating on a weird wavelength whereby he has to justify why a film is good and why we are wrong for not liking it.
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This is always raised... but WHO SAID it was a bad movie? Even the people who dislike it admit it has great elements.
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Like what you like, but don't disparage others for disagreeing with you, especially when the vast majority of critical opinion disagrees with YOU.
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such is life when you have a two week old. Don't worry Skyway, I don't take offense to this stuff. I don't consider you a troll. I'm honestly happy for you that you liked the movie so much, as I've said, I wanted to like it twice as much as you do. Alas, it just didn't work out that way. Good night all.
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I'm not disparaging anyone... you guys are. When people present their opinions on why something doesn't work, you guys tell them they're wrong. And who gives a crap if critical opinion disagrees? Most of them rated ROTS at the time, only to backtrack and deny it.
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I'm not telling you, or anyone else that didn't like TDK that they are "wrong". All I'm saying is that you are in a minority, and that in-and-of-itself, requires a little introspection. You may still arrive at the conclusion that you are "right" and everyone else is "wrong" but at least you've tried to look beyond your own OPINION.
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Skyway, not for nothing, but your presumption that people's opinions require further introspection on their part simply because they fall within the minority doesn't hold water. One could just as easily say the inverse is true: what does it say about you that you agree with everybody else? The answer? It doesn't say much of anything at all. I think most of us understand that designations between good and bad are largely subjective in matters of art, but their subjectivity doesn't make them less genuine. It just makes them less objective. And for the record, by repeatedly pointing to majority opinion, you're the one implying that the majority should rule, you're the one suggesting we are 'wrong' based entirely on the fact that we are in the minority. You're also the one who's quick to call people names. If anything is due some level of introspection, it's your tendency to project your habits onto others. But again, I'm not offended.
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your welcome.
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Anybody who wants to bitch and moan about how TDK is not a good Batman movie are A.) not real Batman fans or B.) have completely forgotten George Clooney's blockbuster hit. We've come a long way, babies. Quit crying! Did it live up to the hype? No! I don't think Jesus lived up to his hype either, but was there something special about Jesus? I'll go out on a limb and say yes. There was something special about TDK, too! They respected the medium it came from, they explored current social conditions, they fleshed out their characters so everyone was 3-dimentional. "It wasn't deep"- fine. It's FUCKING BATMAN. You want to brag about how you're deeper than a Batman movie? Call your mother. Why all the fucking hate? Are you not fanboys? Can you not appreciate the fact we now have Batman movies that are Oscar-worthy? Bitches are bitches for a reason. They live to bitch and bitch to live. If Jesus made a cameo in TDK, you'd bitch. "What was Jesus doing in that scene with the pencil? Was that a magic trick? Or a miracle?" It's cool. The world needs bitches, but damn! How many bitches (and I'll put money you're all MALE bitches) does AICN need? Isn't this a TB about the Golden Globes? Reign in the bitchyness, bitches. Please.
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TDK sucks donkey ballz. I've been schooled sho''nuff...
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Just pointing out that your opinion and I do mean YOUR opinion, doesn't count for very much, and, so don't discount the majority out of hand. For what it's worth, MY opinion doesn't count for jack-shit either. Starting to get the point of my somewhat incoherent rant yet?
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...is just as valid as the Three Act Structure. Just my opinion, of course.
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While the question of whether TDK is overrated or not is not uninteresting, it represents about 3% of the interesting conversation about 2008 movies and TV shows that this talkback could be having. That's it's become 97% of it is sad, sad, sad.
And, BTW, am I the only person who enjoyed the fabulous Hellboy 2 even more than either TDK or Iron Man?
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Dec 12, 2008 11:28:36 PM CST
I HAVE ANOTHER NIT TO PICK ABOUT THE DARK KNIGHT!!!!
by bringingsexyback
It's about the employee who blackmailed Lucius about Batman's ID. That was totally unnecessary. He would not have been the only guy in the company to figure it out, first of all, because for a publicly-traded corporation this size you have entire internal auditing departments that would track Fox's R&D expenditures.
But more to the point ... HOW MANY PEOPLE OTHER THAN LUCIUS AND ALFRED KNOW ABOUT BATMAN?
You have the whole R&D department making Batman's suits, gadgets and equipment. You have the pilot(s) of Wayne's plane snatching him and Lau away in Hong Kong. (Not to mention that such a plane flying so low in Hong Kong would be shot down by the Chinese in a nano-second.)
Looka heah. If the core of the Batman mythos is his secret identity, you need to be more careful working the story so there's no question that Batman's identity is safe.
I still enjoy the movie. I even bought the 2-disc set but IMO the bonus materials are pretty shitty. No interviews with Bale, Ledger or ANY of the actors? Come the fuck on!!! -
Big problem with just the first 2 minutes of the movie. Joker is standing on the street with his mask off, and puts it on when the henchmen pull up.
Then they're talking in the car about how they had never seen the Joker before.
Hello!!! You just saw him standing on the street in full make-up, without the mask on! -
Dec 12, 2008 11:59:50 PM CST
omg what they didnt service the nerds! Fuck them they're nobodie
by burgerking
Oh but if Dark Knight got nominated it'd be a different story. All praising the choices and hoping the Dark Knight wins.
Doesn't mean the Globes aren't shitty, but everyone knows they're just the foreshadower to the Oscars. -
Wait, what? Has that even come out yet?
...just checked IMDB and the release date is listed as 1/15/2009. How can they nominate a movie that hasn't been released (and won't be until next year)? Can I go ahead and nominate Iron Man 2 for best visual effects? I haven't seen it, but I'm sure they'll be great.
Seriously, did I miss something? -
1) Internal Auditing gets real fuzzy for defense contractors, which Wayne Industries is. So long as the expenditure is related to a valid national security-related issue, it can effectively disappear...at least, as long as a guy named Bush is in office.
2) There's a great bit in Cronenberg's THE FLY where Brundle explains how he subcontracted and subcontracted to manufacture his pod parts with all involved parties remaining clueless...same principle for the batsuits, gadgets, equipment.
3) The pilot and Chinese authorities in charge of Hong Kong airspace were told that a Batman-inspired Japanese beer commercial was being filmed, and paid off to avoid a fuss. Something similar probably happens twice a week in Hong Kong, so no biggie. -
I kind of forgot that Tom Cruise was supposed to be in 'Tropic Thunder' when I saw it, and I didn't recognize him until the very end. So I reckon you guys are just too clued in to understand what a great performance that was. So-so movie, but Tom Cruise was fuckin' A.
Also, "In Bruges" was complete shite. A horrible disappointment, something I would have pretended to like when I was 15, with the only character that actually stayed true to his core being the nominal bad guy. Who, let's face it, was trying to punish someone for killing a child. Shit, shit, SHIT movie. -
You almost had a great point with the mask thing. Except that the car pulls up and he gets in it...after putting the mask on. So who knows if they saw him or not. The plot was not an ironclad logic problem. It was the plot to a freakin Batman movie. Does anybody really think Batman movies in the past have been foolproof plotwise? I'm not taking the time to do so, but if you gave the original Burton Batman this much scrutiny, it would probably collapse like a house of cards.
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Your ignorance is beyond belief. Do you truly believe that because someone has not contributed something to the entertainment industry there opinion is not valid? Was Christopher Nolan's opinion not valid before he made his first film? Not to mention, it's a tough business to crack, and many times brilliance is overlooked for popularity.
I for one am still at a young age, but have been an accomplished/educated musician for years. I've done work for many labels and independent artists, and played with some wonderful musicians. Sure, I haven't sold a million records, but does that make my taste in music or ability to play any less valid?
Tell me, what have all these renowned Rotten Tomato movie critics contributed to these films? They are not involved in any artistic process in film making. They simply analyze finished products, and then write a bit about them for the public to see. Exactly what we are doing. Just cause they've pursued the field and gotten a good job makes them infinitely more legit? Sure some of them are great, but a lot of them are just as much hacks as internet fanboys.
You really need to get over yourself, as do most TDK worshipers. Yes, it was a good film, but it's just a film nonetheless. It's there to be watched, loved, hated, criticized, etc. Many will love it, but there will be plenty who don't. It doesn't mean they're doing it to be cool and go against the grain (although I'm sure some do). I for one just noticed some issues with the story and wanted to discuss them. Why can't I? I'm giving valid reasons, and it's not like I didn't enjoy the film and am bashing it. Just cause someone doesn't think the film is "art", doesn't mean they're mental. Once everyone realizes that, maybe we can have some decent discussions. -
I liked the film, and especially on my first viewing. I also acknowledge it was an impressive achievement in the genre/ and for film in general. All future screen villains have the bar raised thanks to Heath. However, on repeated viewings I noticed a lot of things that bothered me, and wasn't nearly as captivated as the first time. In fact, I almost fell asleep. I guess this makes me a hater, right?
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...But Not All Of The People All Of The Time.Hell, I've got a friend who has never seen the last two Lord Of The Rings movies because he says the first one was terrible and says Peter Jackson is a hack director for what he did to the books. Another guy I know says The Matrix is one of the worst movies ever and calls it "a predictable shitfest".There are people who don't like The Dark Knight? This surprises me not.
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this talkback is about not simply the Golden Globes nominations, but how TDK was supposedly snubbed. The whole tone of many of the quotes in the post are put their to discredit the Globes (not a difficult thing to do, when you think about it) in large part, as the headline suggests, because Mama Mia (which I didn't see, but am sure I didn't like) was awarded with nominations while TDK (which I did see and have shared my opinion here) was only nominated for supporting actor. My point is that it was not the TB that turned this being about TDK, it was the author of the original item. That being said, it most assuredly would have become about TDK sooner or later in the TB anyway. At any rate, I would wager that most of us are--or have been--Batman fans, and that we all remember Batman and Robin. A lot of us loved Begins (though some of us have no doubt begun to look at that one in a different light, too). The point is not that we're crying over Batman. My first post was simply a prediction that it wouldn't age well with a lot of people who think it's great today. If anything, it's the mob (or certain individuals in the mob) who for one reason or another, have too personal a connection with the film that they can't stand to here it criticized without trying to shout down its critics. At any rate, I don't know what it means to be Oscar worthy. I don't put much stock in the Academy. I don't think TDK was a very good film worthy of the praise it has received. I couldn't care less if it won no awards or all of them. Neither scenario will make it into a better movie any more than Crash was made into one when it won Best Picture.
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Just reiterating the old "opinions are like assholes" meme.
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you bash TDK but you will watch it more than any of the trash out there that you think deserves to be on this list. I dare you not to buy it and watch it 10 times in 2009!!!
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Unfortunately I find new problems every time. I'm not saying it's a bad movie - I think it's pretty great, actually, for a Batman movie. I just think it's far from perfect, and Nolan should pay more attention to characterization and continuity. Taking constructive criticism can only make one better.
And what's with the bank manager sitting in his office while everyone else was being booby-trapped? First thing you do in a robbery is grab the employees and guards. And how stupid was it to come out blasting with a shotgun when the robbers have Uzis? That was a bit of a lazy setup.
And I repeat - the bonus disc is pure bullshit. -
BECAUSE HE USES ALL CAPSno need to argue with him, because HE USES THE ALL-CAPS-OF-TRUTH
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Actually, I haven't bought the TDK DVD and don't plan to. And for all of those dorks who dismiss all critics as "haters," I've notice much more anger and name-calling from those who defend the movie than those who dare criticize it. Reminds me of religious zealots, actually.
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First, I'm not going to quote Mandrake’s personal resume, but he posted it earlier if anyone’s interested in learning more about his life and accomplishments. I, for one, am…not? But let’s move on to his bad quotes: “I've said it before, but the first viewing, mixed with Ledger’s performance, were the only reasons TDK was so hyped and praised.” So the ensemble talent of Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, and Gary Oldman were inconsequential. The writing, score, direction, plot devices, character-growth and action scenes…all of this was shit, in other words? This quote makes him sound ignorant, but he’s included far more ignorant quotes on this TB. Let’s re-visit some now…“What's with the Joker’s speech to Harvey Dent? He's like a dog without a leash, just doing what he does without really knowing?” Um…hmmm, maybe because he is lying? That’s what Joker does? He lies to everyone through the entire film? He’s the Clown Prince of Lies! Mandrake must’ve slept through the parts where Joker spoke of his past, his scars, when he told Batman where to find Rachel, or when he claimed innocence. But let’s move on…“Next, how about the Joker in the cell, guarded by one old run-down cop?” …in a locked interrogation room in the middle of the MCU unarmed and surrounded by a squad of detectives and officers right after he got his ass handed to him. Hello? Next bad quote: “Remember the whole Joker tries to kill Dent action-scene? Why couldn't he just kill Dent, who was arguably more important than Lao? To me, it clearly looks like he's trying to kill Dent, but why do it all to go to jail?” SO his argument is Joker acted too chaotic and crazy? Mandrake wasn’t able to comprehend the method to the madman’s madness, so he proclaims this as a plot-hole? Really? That’s his argument. If Mandrake doesn’t comprehend it, it’s a plot-hole. Not because he doesn’t have the imagination to see around corners; it simply wasn’t well-enough written? Joker moved in to kill Dent because of the mob-promise to off Batman. If he would’ve succeeded, there would STILL be a guy in the MCU with a bomb in his belly. Joker set himself up to win, even if he failed. Remember the big boats full of people who didn’t blow themselves up? Joker still had a back-up detonator, didn’t he? Oh, and lastly, my favorite Mandrake quote: “I don't think these are plot-holes, I know they are.” Ah-hah. Now who sounds ignorant?
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I see your point. I am a diciple of the Bat. Believe it or not, it was my first word. My world was crushed when Clooney killed the franchise. But now I've gotten a chance to see Ra's Al Ghul in the flesh, Scarecrow in the flesh, and a Joker I never could've imagined before! A Two-Face that blows Tommy Lee Jones out of the water, an Alfred I actually care about, a Gordon who lives up to the image I've held onto since I read Miller's Year One. This movie is a milestone for Batman on the big screen. It's done for comic movies what Crouching Tiger did for kung-fu flicks. It raised the bar and proved comic books is a valid medium for all ages and mindsets. So yes, it bugs me when people complain about tiny flaws and neglect what an accomplishment this movie turned out to be. It's like kicking Cindy Crawford out of bed because of the mole. To me, it's bitching just to bitch. Of course I'm bias, but would I defend 1997's Batman & Robin? I got to see Bane and Poison Ivy in the flesh watching that movie...but I'm not proud of what I saw. I'm proud of Batman Begins, and I loved the Dark Knight. And if Nolan ever decides to make a third, I will go see that to. And you know what? Something tells me you will, too.
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Your a pretty big douche. Those are exactly what plot holes are. I comprehended the film fine. I'm thinking maybe you didn't, because your response reek of Bat dick sucking. Nowhere did you convince me that the plot holes I listed are not legit. Please move on with your life. And like I could give two fucks about what you think of my personal story, I was using it to prove a point, not wow you. Go jerk off to Nolan and Bale.
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Do you really think anyone gave a shit about this film other than the fact it was a Batman movie and had Heaths last performance? Yeah, I'm sure the masses were going nuts over Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, and Maggie Gylenhaal. Please. Also, you clearly didn't understand the problems with the Joker/Lao situation, and clearly didn't pay attention in the first half if you don't see the flaws in the logic there.
It's also funny, you also say the Joker lies all the time, which is true. But it's also true that he's a dog without a leash, just doing things, as shown in his scar stories. So he's not really lying. It's just contradicted writing. In other words, poor.
Also, your explanation for the Joker escaping was very useless. -
Dude, it's a movie. Chill. I was just pointing out you don't know what real plot-holes are. No reason to get personal, man. Go get a girlfriend. Nerd.
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I'm leaving the house to engage in real life, but before I go, I had a revelation...now I might be reaching here, but dude...are you Joel Schumacher? You can tell us if you are.
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And of course a third will be made. Nolan is just teasing people with this nonsense about being unsure, or that the story would have to really touch him. What's going to have to touch him is Warner shilling out a much more lucrative contract than they gave him for TDK. This will happen, and there will be another film. Most of us will see it, although some of us will go in having adjusted our expectations far lower than they were this year. I have a long list of things that I thought were wrong about this film, much of it I would accept being classified as nit-picking. After a certain point, I found it difficult not to allow myself to get hyper-critical. I suppose that I thought it would be more of a cathartic experience to totally unload onto this film (in my mind, not in this TB--in which I think I've been fairly restrained), but I still feel somewhat robbed. It happened throughout the summer and now it's happening again, I see the ads and all of the promo stuff for the DVD release and I can't help thinking, "I can't wait to see that movie" then I remember that I did see it, and I really didn't like it, and the sadness returns.
All of that being said, of course it was better than either of the Schumacher films and probably either of the Burton films. I happen to think it is not as good as Begins, and that it doesn't even work as a continuation of that same narrative or universe of the first film. A lot of people prefer the new reality, and that's fine. I disagree with them, though. And, out of habit, I tend to agree with myself, so I am going to say that I'm right. Not to offend anybody else, but simply to reflect my own perspective. Anyway. As I've said before, I'm glad for you that you had such a positive reaction to the film. I wish I could have had that reaction. In the end, I'm convinced that you guys would have liked the movie I wanted it to be a lot more than the movie we were given, but that's sort of a gratuitous and meaningless point. -
Not shilling out.
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Not shilling out.
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Its stupid for us to attack each other personally, like we honestly know anything about each other. You can call me a nerd all you want, but what does that mean to me? Maybe I took it too far, but shit happens. Anyway, I like to think at the end of the day we just had a film discussion and that's what this sites here for. This is actually one of the first talkbacks I've posted a lot in.
Anyway, let it be known that I dig your name. Is it a reference to Dylan, or Jagger and co? Maybe Humble Pie? Anyone would make me very pleased. If you like classic rock and roll such as that, I think you'd really get down with my band. Let me know if your ever interested, and I can point you towards our music. However, you probably won't be, but either way... cheers man. -
Its stupid for us to attack each other personally, like we honestly know anything about each other. You can call me a nerd all you want, but what does that mean to me? Maybe I took it too far, but shit happens. Anyway, I like to think at the end of the day we just had a film discussion and that's what this sites here for. This is actually one of the first talkbacks I've posted a lot in.
Anyway, let it be known that I dig your name. Is it a reference to Dylan, or Jagger and co? Maybe Humble Pie? Anyone would make me very pleased. If you like classic rock and roll such as that, I think you'd really get down with my band. Let me know if your ever interested, and I can point you towards our music. However, you probably won't be, but either way... cheers man. -
The name comes from Muddy Waters' "Mannish Boy", and you're the first to ask me about it. No hate here, man. I get touchy when it comes to the Bat. Forgive me if I was offensive. I think we can agree with Skyway Moaters. We're all dorks here. It's AICN.
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Fuck 'em.
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How old you be Mr Rolling Stone? A latter day "convert" by chance?
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Yeah, Muddy's well before my day. But my first job ever was working in a blues bar; live blues every night and the best BBQ in Houston? I was well-educated. I dig old school, if you can hear some pain in it. Morrison's TB Sheets, Lennon's Cold turkey, the Stones doing Monkey Man, Stray Cat Blues and Let it Bleed- all good shit, in my humble opinion.
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In light of your last post, if you really dig the blues, you OWE it to yourself to check-out (if you haven't already): Son House, Bessie Smith, Robert Johnson, T-Bone Walker, Little Walter, Lonnie Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Elmore James, Willie Dixon, Freddie King, Charlie Patton, Ma Rainey, Leadbelly, 20. Howlin' Wolf, Louis Jordan, Big Bill Broonzy, Skip James, Sonny Boy Williamson, Professor Longhair, Mamie Smith, Blind Blake, Robert Nighthawk, Memphis Minnie, Leroy Carr, Arthur Big Boy Crudup, Ida Cox, Tampa Red, Sonny Boy Williamson, Lightnin' Hopkins, Charles Brown, Albert King, Brownie McGhee, Junior Wells, Mississippi John Hurt, Jimmy Reed, Blind Willie Johnson, Big Mama Thornton, Big Joe Turner, Albert Collins, Sleepy John Estes, Rosco Gordon, Otis Spann, AND, Walter "Furry" Lewis.
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Her houndog blows Elvis out the water. So, Mr. Moaters appears to be a Blues Childe! Right on. Ever listen to Nina Samone? She's good for that list, too.
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Muddy Waters? Hell Fuckin Yeah! I'm a huge blues fan, in fact playing blues is my biggest passion in life. Glad to see some other cats on the boards are into that stuff too. Some of my favorite artists are BB King, Howlin Wolf, Robert Johnson, Willie Dixon, Buddy Guy, Elmore James (LOVE me that slide guitar), Junior Wells, Pinetop Perkins, Sonny Boy Williams, and of course, Muddy Waters. Some of my favorite Muddy tunes include Rollin and Tumblin, Hoochie Coochie Man, Mannish Boy, I just Wanna Make Love to You, You Shook Me, Rock Me, and Good Morning Little School Girl. Of course he's got wayyy to many classic/blues staples to name, but those are tracks were always personal favorites.
I totally agree with Skyway about all those blues artists, although some I've never heard of, I'm sure there great. Furthermore, I'm a huge fan of the British blues, all those great bands like Free, Humble Pie, Zeppelin, the Yardbirds, early Stones, Blue Cheer, Jeff Beck Group, Early Fleetwood Mac (before the females came and ruined the band, Jeremy Spencer the slide guitarist does a MEAN elmore james, slide all. Not to mention a spot-on Elvis), etc, etc. I don't know if your into that stuff, but they really do great justice to many of those blues standards by Waters and Wolf and Dixon. If you haven't you should definitely look into all those groups early material (later stuff is great too, less blues though).
Really pleased to see some great taste in music on here. I'm also way after all these groups time, but to me, there's nothing better. This is definitely one of the more pleasant surprises I've had on this site. Keep jivin man! -
I'll agree spot on that Big Mama's Thorntons Hound Dog is superior to Elvis. Those vocals always manage to give me the chills. That being said, I do love me some Elvis. Well that's alright mama.....
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You jam the blues? Right on. Any place on line where a rolling stone can hear your band jam? I'd love to check it out.
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Not to get nerdy, but back to the TB topic--I totally get where you're coming from on the TDK thing, ok? They hyped it up like it was the 2nd coming of Christ. No movie could live up to the hype produced by the media, so of course the hype actually worked against the movie. Imagine if this movie came out and no one was talking about it before-hand? As far as good movies go, we can at least agree it was worth watching, right? It wasn't Halle Berry's Catwoman, it wasn't Jen's Elecktra, or Dolph's Punisher--it was entertaining, right? And because of the level of talent, anyone who does (I'm hoping Nolan) the next Bat movie will do their best to give us their best, if only to live up to what came before. My bitch is that many people don't take comics seriously, because "they're for kids". Comics haven't been "for kids" since the 80's. Frank Miller helped change that with Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. It's now a respectible medium, and films like TDK help promote the respect I feel the genre of comics deserve. It's a beautiful mythos (in my opinion), and these stories have been told since ancient Greek times (Superman: Zeus, Batman: Hades, Flash: Hermes, etc.). I was just happy someone finally paid attention to the current written mythos and translated it so all people could find the beauty in it that I found so many years ago. That's all. It's just my opinion, anyway. Again, I meant you no offense.
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... and Nina Simone absolutely KILLS...
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Do you have the other half of this amulet...?
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...but it sure smells good!
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I feel like I'm in an empty room everyone else has left, because Hugh Jackman is in the next room. I like Hugh Jackman, don't get me wrong, but what the hell?
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I completely agree about the empty room bit. As for the Dark Knight, it was most definitely the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and it was definitely worth watching. In fact, I absolutely loved it the first time I saw it. My second viewing was just a bit disappointing, and that was the "classic" make or break for me. Either way though, It was a very good film, and I am actually looking forward to seeing it again on Blu Ray due to all these recent TDK debates on AICN. I will say it has been hyped to hell, but hell, it deserves it over most movies. I know shit gets heated in movie debates, and I take no offense. I also meant none either.
you can check out my band if you wish at www.myspace.com/waterd2 ..........the bands name is heavy water, and those two songs are recorded from a live show we did last weekend at Uncle Mike's in Manhattan. Quality is only ok, and the vocals are mixed wayyy high, but you can still get the jist of the music. We actually have our cover of You Shook Me up, one of my fav. blues staples. Hope you check em out and like em! It's great to see someone on here interested, especially in blues. Actually pleased to have met you (even just online) after all this heavy handed debating. -
So the GG has finally achieved the epic fail, of epic fails.
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