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Time Magazine Reviews Joss Whedon's DOLLHOUSE!!
I am – Hercules!!
Time Magazine has what could be the first review of Joss Whedon’s new sci-fi series. Here’s how that review ends:
If it weren't for Whedon's pedigree, I'm not sure I'd be dying to see a second episode. But for me, the main draw now is not seeing Dushku become a different person every week, but getting to see Joss Whedon become a different writer every week.
Read all of Time’s review here.
"Dollhouse" premieres Feb. 13 on Fox.
Fresh, Hilarious Whedon!!
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Joss's flexible writing is what makes him an interesting watch, imo.
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That'd be a switch. Actually, it'd be a switch if it was a creative bomb and got mad viewers.
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Get hip to the street lingo, yo.
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I predict a very quick cancellation.
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Let's hope Joss is fully into this and he gets cut some slack by the network to develop the concept.
I know, those are both big things to hope for. -
Not the glowing rave I would have liked to read, but it still sounds promising. I agree that Dushku has not shown a huge amount of range in the past (and this is coming from a HUGE Buffy fan), but I still like her and have lots of faith in Whedon. I still can't wait for this and Lost to start up next year.
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Dec 04, 2008 9:34:28 PM CST
Well honeslty Firefly's original pilot was pretty lucklustre too
by paul t. ryan
...But look how good that got. Still, I fully expect this to get shafted by FOX.
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It's too bad that Joss didn't have a documentary crew following him around the whole time as he developed this show. Because the documentary would have ended up being the hit - not the show. Watching Joss struggle to steer and control this turkey of a high concept show would have been very interesting. These kind of documentaries only work when there is a conflict - and it takes something like Herzog's struggle with Fitzcaraldo (as documented in Burden of Dreams) or Gilliam's struggle with Don Quixote (as chronicled in Lost in La Mancha) to really learn about these great directors.
Really. I wish I could go back in time and make this doc. -
...Fox has demonstrated no patience for anything, so it is a risk. I hope they get all the episodes filmed, at least, before the suits at Fox do their usual stupid stuff. Then there can be a full season dvd.
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until Zeroturd comes in here to spew impotent flaming troll rage against anything related to Whedon. He is obsessed, that one is.
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I saw warning bells during the first two thirds of Train Job (then my VCR... remember those?... cut off and I missed the thug getting kicked into the engine), so I'm not worried about the show's quality. More worried about a slow start that forces Fox's hand to move it around to at least three different nights during it's first six episodes (to "generate interest").
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Really still amazed that Whedon got into bed again with Fox.
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if you catch my drift. Heh heh.
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I dread the years of whining when this is canceled after 4 episodes.
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from Friday. I think the most likely scenario that's going to play out is that they are going to burn the remaining episodes of T:SCC & Dollhouse and not renew either for the next season. Yeah, I think it's safe to say I'm keeping my expectations waaay down until I see at least four episodes and the direction it's going in.
The premise of a "Dollhouse" didn't really grab me from the onset but I thought, from the way Joss was talking, that it would be a little bit noir-ish and a lot of existentialism. Sounded cool and smart. But then the Fox execs got involved (We want BOOM! We want BOOBS! We want BOOMBOOBS!!) and it has become an actioneer. And for me, that's harder to take seriously. I mean I like BOOM and BOOBS, don't get me wrong, but I like to participate as a viewer in a television series and not just turn my brain off.
Secondly, Eliza. I think I might have the same problem about her as an actress. I can't speak of her work on Tru Calling - never saw it - but I never saw her in any movie where I didn't think, "Hey, it's Faith!" In other words, I am wary about her range. As Faith, she was not the best actress on either Buffy or Angel and she only had one scene in either show that made me really appreciate her acting talent. In BtVS, it was when she was Buffy in Faith's body trying to convince Giles of who she was. That was stand out, right down to the mannerisms (However, SMG playing Faith kicked that performances ass). On Angel, it was Faith fighting Angel in the rain, begging him to kill her. She brought the angst.
I mean, it might not make that much of a difference especailly if she surrounds herself with other strong actors and it becomes a real ensemble and not just a Dushku vehicle. But yeah, "wait and see" is my mid-season mantra. -
I fully expect this show to fail both ratings-wise and creatively. Whedon just brainstormed an idea to work with Dushku again without really thinking it out. This series was literally created over a lunch with Whedon and Dushku.
Buffy was an idea that took years and a bad movie for Whedon to get right. Angel started out as a bad concept and grew into something very different and far more interesting, but at least it already had some solid character. Firefly was a pet project of his based on his love of old westerns. Dollhouse is nothing more than a cool concept that Whedon conceived for Dushku's development deal. He built the series for Dushku not developed the series and cast Dushku in the lead. That seems as a recepite for disaster. Add that they already had to reshoot the pilot and retool the concept just re-enforces disaster. -
Where are you?
Looks like he was on the mark with all his criticisms. -
to never work with Fox again. Also, I hope he rediscovers a love for TV and comes back with something else for the next pilot season. Something that ABC buys, or CBS, or even the CW. Serenity was good, but Joss needs to come back to giving me TV every week, not trying to make movies.
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Fox is showing plenty of patience with Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. If this was the Fox of five years ago that would've been off the air by the 5th episode this season. It sure as shit wouldn't have gotten an extension of its season. I mean, why even order a back nine when you're just planning to dump them off on Fridays?Yeah, I don't think the Friday timeslot will work out for either shot, but this isn't so much a contractually obligated dump-off; it's a last ditch experimental effort to bring an audience to this show. I mean, come on, would Dollhouse ever have had a shot against Gossip Girl or even Chuck? Do you think a high concept show such as Dollhouse would hang on to an American Idol audience or hold its own against NBC's comedy block? Trying to build a sci-fi block on a Friday is a ballsy, ballsy call, and it probably won't work. However, I don't see anyone actively trying to bury this one just yet.Guys, wait until early February, when the ad campaign for TSCC's return and Dollhouse's premiere would most likely be in full swing. If we can't find any, THEN we can start calling bullshit.
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I'm actually looking forward more to Cabin in the Woods than Dollhouse.
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starts more like early January than early February!
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After this fails
Huge fan of Joss, and it is sad to feel so certain that this will fail.
I would like to see Joss put his creative hat on, don't create a vehicle for someone as hot as Eliza (though I can understand wanting to spend lots of time with her), but create a great story with great characters and give it a go on HBO or FX or Sci Fi.
But I think he will take this one personally, and go into his shell for a while. -
I was having computer problems, script pitching problems, girl problems...oh, and I had my karate lesson. The last two weeks have been a real bitch!!!As you know Medicinaluser, I love me some Joss Whedon, and I should be working for the guy, at least I think so, I'm a good muse, but I just wish he had hit the points of weakness with this series that I saw a mile away. After I pointed this stuff out, on another web site, about a month later, a studio insider complained about the same things that I highlighted about Dollhouse...and it was clear to me, he had read my post and started thinking. This show needs Echo (Eliza) to maintain a steady and regular personality, at least in between missions. Hell, it might even be best for them to have her secretly retain her memory each time they try to imprint her with a new personality, although she would retain the skills that they impart to her, she would be essentially like Joe 90, or Neo from the Matrix in that regard, save her programmers would have no idea of this aspect of the flawed imprinting. What would be cool to see is this twist, I just thought up, if she is retaining her memory, again, secretly, per each mission...and the new skills and muscle memory she learns each time, sooner or later, Echo would become the most bad ass threat to the organization that controls her. Somebody who is picking up new and intriguing special skills with every mission would make the ultimate assassin, the ultimate spy, the ultimate badass enemy.Joss has a great concept here, except he is failing to steer it in the right direction it appears, instead, the character is being positioned to be a brainwashed Equalizer for the rich (now how can you relate to that???), and she plays the dream girl in made up or real life Fantasy Island scenarios (agin, for the rich???). All this, when this show should be a straight out spy series, or about a secret criminal organization ala Wanted, or perhaps about a international group of terrorists who are brainwashing people to be the perfect killing machines!!!
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Dec 05, 2008 12:06:50 AM CST
That suggests that Whedon is capable of becoming a different wri
by the funketeer
The guy is a one or two trick pony who panders to his audience like nobody's business.
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My suspicion is that TSCC (which I like a LOT) is still on Fox not because Fox is wise or patient, but as a loss-leader promotion for the Terminator theatrical release.And Fox has demonstrated so little patience with the original stuff in the past, especially Whedon's character-development based work, that I remain unconvinced this will be any different. I do hope to be wrong!And I really want to see more of Lena Heady's Sarah Connor--she owns that role, now, as far as I am concerned.
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Which is why I never watched any of his shows when they were on, sadly. I only discovered them on DVD b/c it takes a few eps for all of 'em to find their footing, which probably (unfortunately) has something to do with his history struggling in the ratings. He's the ultimate case of long-term investment=worth the reward. I'll watch for the 1st season. If I'm not interested after that, I'll quit. That sounds kinda stupid, but Joss has earned that much with his track record, imo. Besides, with most of his other shows, I was generally completely hooked by the halfway point, so I doubt it'll be much of a sacrifice.
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You make it sound like a bad thing. One man's one trick pony is another man's auteur.
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It takes all of Whedon's shows a couple of episodes to get going.
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That would be funny.
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this thing just looks really cheap and cheezy. it looks like burnt orange color wall to wall shag carpeting. ugh. and you know its gonna have some science nerd thats never been laid acting all dorky in it.
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And more on Dushku, great eye candy, terrible actress. The review didn't really temper my concerns about Dushku's abilities, but we'll see.
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I'm a big Whedon fan, but I have to agree with you: this show looks very cheesy. The production value has the feel of an Angel episode from five years ago. Not a good sign, especially in the "sleek" psuedo-realistic J.J. Abrams era of genre TV.
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sounds like too much network interference
He shoulda pitched other networks or not done it at all -
...is to end the season on the cliffhanger revelation that Dushku's character in DOLLHOUSE is an amnesiac Faith the Vampire Slayer.
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Not a Whedon, FOX, or Dushku hater. It just looks and feels so bland. I wish anyone well with a television series nowdays. It has to be tough. I certainly know that Whedon has a reputation in certain areas to live up to. It will be a huge uphill climb.
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I wonder if there's a lack of confidence in the show from Joss/his team? At the same time, there's a lot of pressure, and high expectations from the frothy uber-fans. I'm almost one of them, I may be more forgiving than most.
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... or is FOX going to cancel it before it even debuts? That'd be the ultimate in early cancelling, but I don't put anything past FOX anymore.
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I never got into Buffy or Angel, but I did absolutely LOVE Firefly, so I will give this a shot for as long as FOX leaves it on the air and doesn't show episodes out of order and shit like that.
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The Train Job was what FOX used as a Pilot episode for Firefly, and "Serenity", which was the intended pilot, was shown last, which was just retarded. IMHO "Serenity" (not the movie, but the 2 hour episode) is an amazing pilot.
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I'm not expecting to be blown away in the first few episodes, but I'm sure that will come. Like Bryan Fuller, this guy is three for three so I'm sure I'll come to love it. That is, if they don't end up Foxing it up.
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when they told Whedon to do a second pilot because the first didn't have enough action. The episode starts in the middle of a fight. There was a good amount of action. And it ends on a cliffhanger. However, I saw it in reruns but it's not on the DVD; before the first episode (the second pilot) there was a bit of a prologue, much like the one before the movie. I think that would have been better before the first pilot, instead of just jumping into the action. I lent my DVD of Firefly to a few friends and warned them all that the first episode "just starts". They all said they were glad to know that going in as it did seem a bit abrupt like they'd missed something.
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That is all.
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I mean look at the basic premise of Buffy. The first season, the entirety of which was in the can before even the first episode aired, does not hold up well today, despite the fact that it had a good premise and fairly unique ideas for the time. It's only once Whedon's shows move past the formula (like Monster of the week) that they start to really transcend the concept. Firefly was a bit of a departure, since it was doing something different. But Dollhouse seems to have a procedural aspect, so we have to get through some formula episodes first before things get more interesting. I have Faith in the Joss.
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Dushku should be fine. After all, if people worried about acting in their genre series, Dark Angel would never have gotten a second season.
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Good point oisin5199. It was clearly monster of the week for most of first season. Almost to the point of being a joke. However, that set up made me really underestimate the show at first and the episode with the Dummy caught me off guard with the simultanious Buffy/Dummy "Die Demon!" scream twist going into a comercial and I became a fan for good. I think that's the world he likes to work in. A lot of early Firefly episodes were "Yeah, yeah, it's a space western, get it?". A lot of Angel episodes were "He's Batman, get it?". A lot of Buffy episodes were "It's a typical monster movie, but the victim is tough here, get it?". Then he takes all the cliches of those three genres (Star Wars was a space western, Superhero Detective, and Teen Horror Movie) and uses them as fodder and filler while telling the story he really wants to tell. This seems like a natural progression of that where he basically can set up the show as any genre he wants each week, but it'll probably take half a season to set up the overall background story to frame everything.
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That means, "I'm a Whedonite so I'd probably watch him take a shit on a rock and call it good entertainment with witty dialogue."
I will admit, however, that Whedon is a better writer than Akiva Goldsman. At least Whedon follows through with the story as it was written, instead of tacking on some horrible out-of-right-field ending that has nothing to do with the main storyline. Whedon sucks, but Goldsman sucks Just A Little Bit More.
Enjoy your "not Buffy, not Firefly" show, Whedonites. Be sure to tell the furries sitting with you that I said "hello" and "don't look at me." -
Forming any sort of judgement about a tv-series after watching one episode doesn't make any sense to me.
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And yet network execs do it all the time.
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Now I'm picturing Corpsie outside of Whedon's gated community handing out his homemade pamphlets entitled "The Whedonite Manifesto" wearing a raccoon costume.
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By the time Mal shot the horse - He SHOT the HORSE!! - I was hooked.
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and the homemade pamplets will be in crayon....
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*mental pic*
Ya know, I don't really dislike Corpsie though. First, I call him Corpsie and he likes Dr. Who & Torchwood. Second, he's been around forever and when the screw loose "Browncoats" were spamming the site around movie release time they made everyone snap. But I think they broke him. Well, either them or Herc. Herc pisses people off a lot. I like that. He embraces it, like Harry.
Where was...oh yeah. Corpsie. Do you remember that South park ep where it was Vamps vs Goths? I think Corpsie is goth. And he can't stand douchebag vamp lovers. Whedon's vampire series encroched on his gothiness just as much as Twillight has done to the next gen's perception.
Kinda sad, really. We should have a telethon. -
Hosted by the cast of Firefly, Buffy, and Angel.
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I'm a bad, bad man....
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"I swear by my pretty bonnet I will end you."
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"My food is problematic" (not Mal, but still a good quote, one I sometimes use at mealtimes)
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and I'm armed
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... people know he's not afraid of anything
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Book: Afraid I might be needing a preacher.
Mal: That's good. You just lie there and be ironical.
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Jayne: Do you know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with till you understand who's in rutting command here.
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Now what does that make us?
Zoe: Big damn Heroes, sir.
Mal: Ain't we just. -
which is at about 90%. obviously fox knows what to do with it.
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A world where Whedon's shows get tramped, and Damon L and Carlton C get street-cred is a sad, sad world.
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Mal: Define "interesting". Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?
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Mal: You invited me.Inara: I never thought for a second you'd be stupid enough to come!
Mal: Well that makes you a tease. -
Jayne: Can't get paid if you crawl away like a bitty little bug neither. I got a share of this job. Ten percent of nothin' is, let me do the math here... nothin' and a nothin', carry the nothin'...
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Dec 06, 2008 7:24:16 AM CST
Mal: [so only Jayne hears him] Now, you only gotta scare 'im.
by mr. zeddemore
Jayne: Pain is scary.
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Firefly is amazing.
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. . . knock him the hell off. Never thought Firefly was all that, and the movie version, although good, was never all that either. Sorry, nerds of Whedonism, everyone screws the pooch eventually and even ya'll have ta' admit it.
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She's not a cempelling enough person to keep you entertained for 22 weeks at a time. They tried with Tru Calling and that failed. They need to stop trying to make her happen. She was marginally good on Buffy because her tough girl routine worked for the character. But she has no range whatsoever as an actress. And I know it's cool to dislike Sarah Michelle Gellar on AICN, but she was always the better actress. I love it when people start trying to retcon their love of Buffy all after the fact by saying shit like "I never watched Buffy for Buffy, I watched it for (insert random Whedon alum's name here) because she left the show after 8 seasons. Dushku is just not good enough to anchor an entire series. I'm waiting for people to realize that already. Even in Wrong Turn you never thought anything would happen to her because she was tougher than the main dude.
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I'm a huge fan, but I'll admit it if this isn't good. Can you admit it if it is good? Come on here really. You're basing the opinion that a show is "screwing the pooch" on one review of one episode of the show. Let's see before we judge, eh?
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Abrams TV definitely looks grand - too bad narratively it always falls apart after a couple of seasons (Lost is NOT his - he has nothing to do with it anymore). Alias was a complete mess by the third season, and it was so clear he didn't know what to do with the story (really? Another Rimbaldi device? How many did that guy make? And do any of them do anything besides lead to more Rimbaldi devices?). I'll take excellent long-term storytelling, great dialogue, and real character development over good production values anyday. Hmmmm, sounds like I might still be bitter about how lackluster Fringe is - I wanted it to be so good and can barely make myself watch each episode, I'm so bored (I keep watching cause, as people here have already said, sometimes it takes a show a while to find it's footing).
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I loved Fred and seeing her play a scientist again is maybe not so much of a stretch but I bet her role is interesting.
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She wasn't flashy, and she had issues with Joss, but if you can watch BTVS 516 'The Body' and say she's not a damn fine actress, you're a liar.
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JAYNE: What, you mean like masturbating?
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Call it the "Buffy" syndrome: You get an actress who derives half of her appeal from being sexy, and then you put her in a big heavy coat so viewers can only see her from the neck up. They did it with Sarah Michelle Gellar in later seasons of "Buffy" and they did the same kind of thing with The Dushku in that "Tru Calling" show.
Let's not do it again. If The Dushku is in a show, we want to SEE The Dushku! -
Joss Whedon, Ron Moore and Seth Macfarlane in the opening of the new Robot Chicken ep.
http://tinyurl.com/5az6sk
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...and start reading from the middle.
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...Likely crash and kill us all.Mal: Well, that happens, let me know.
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...somewhat less attractive now that she's all corpsified and gross-
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...you try to kill 'em right back!
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I call it Vera.
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You know, with the exception of one deadly and unpredictable midget, this girl is the smallest cargo I've ever had to transport, yet by far the most troublesome. Does that seem right to you?
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Joss Whedon was given the task of writing a script for Wonder-Woman, and he couldn't even do that. How in the hell can you not write a script when you have almost 70 years of comic material to draw on?Dollhouse is going to suck and be cancelled after episodes, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer was over rated asshole!
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Jason Priestley
He poisones every scene he's in -
The little man loved fire.
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"Please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket."
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Then he got all emo.
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by why was dialogue in Firefly so much better? It was clever and witty and didn't have to resort to that wb teen speak that shortens words from probably to prob the way buffy did. Those lines quoted above only touch the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the dialogue in Firefly and nothing was funnier than the planet that built a statue in honor of Jayne the hero.
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I hope it's not as generic as it seems.
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As somone who used to watch Buffy and Angel. When he was on form he was great but he could also write some real shit. His main flaw was he could raise an interesting issue or storyline but not know how to devolp it and so drop or waste it.
You Had the events of Becoming and a few episodes later in S3 things were back to normal with the boring B/A relationship angsting away and everyone is fine and dandy.
You had in Part 1 of Graduation day Buffy decide to kill Faith a fellow human which was what Faith HAD been doing and could potentially lose her soul (metaphorically)really emotinally engaging by pt2 Faith was not dead simply in a comma and Buffy was fine and it was ended with a really big CGI and laughable snake.
In Angel S2 You had argubly its best episode Reunion where Angel goes dark and locks a bunch of laywers with Vampires and fires his crew. Few episodes later its brushed away with "Those laywers were going to die anyway line" and Angels motivations focus on Cordelias wardrobe and then Pylea.
Buffy episode the Gift was also full of holes and Dawn should never have been introduced to the show and ruined the whole dynamic of the Buffy charachter but at least the idea of the ending was right. IE Buffy dies to save the world and finally knows some peace.
Of course it was completely negated by S6 and S7 since it was obvious she was going to be bought back.
The Dark Willow storyline potentially the most interesting on the show focusing on her rising power coupled with her Hubris and insecurties (The threat scene between her and Giles in the otherwise crap episode Flooded was the best in the whole year) was discarded for Magic = Crack.
Add to the fact you have Willow/Fred and that Doctors girlfriend on Firefly (forget the name) but they are essentially the same charachter with the ohh /gosh feel sympathy for me sign stiched on them.
Dont get me started on the awful S7 or that awful piece of hackwork that was Chosen. That was his series Finale WTF!
While Angel was still a great show he completely avoided the risky topic that Angel MURDERED Drogon a good guy for his own ends or manipulated his supposed friends like they were mere pieces on a board. But hey thats not important compared to a CGI Dragon right.
For me when Whedon was on form he was great but he was never consistent and never made it to the next level where good turns to greatness though to be fair few can. -
"I swallowed a bug"
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Dec 07, 2008 9:00:44 PM CST
This will bomb so hard that anyone not living in a fallout shelt
by anthony w
will be killed by it.I can't wait for Herc to give this show it's own talkback. Not because I like Whedon's work, but because I know this will get canned. After the show gets canned the people wanting a Supernatual talkback will really lay into him :)
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sorry :)
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