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#28 11/19/08 #7

Happy Turkey Day, Faithful Talkbackers. It’s your holiday host Ambush Bug here. Normally we don’t announce comic shop events since it’s a bit too local for the interweb, but since this one is for a good cause, it’s worth a holler. Looks like Alan Moore has decided to enter the world of the living and do a book signing at his local comic shop (Close Encounters) in Northhampton. Alan will be joined by Melinda Gebbie this Saturday beginning at 1pm. The event is to help funding for a Romanian orphanage, so it’s a worthwhile cause and worth the trip. Click here for more information or email here.
Now, on with the reviews!

The Pull List (Click title to go directly to the review) AVENGERS/INVADERS #6 KINGDOM COME SPECIAL: MAGOG #1 THE GOON #30 THUNDERBOLTS #126 HACK/SLASH #15-17 BEYOND WONDERLAND #1-3 Big Eyes for the Cape Guy presents PRINCESS RESURRECTION V4 Big Eyes for the Cape Guy presents BLEACH V1 COLLECTOR’S EDITION Indie Jones presents WOLVES OF ODIN OGN Indie Jones presents MR SCOOTLES TPB Indie Jones presents… CHEAP SHOTS!


Plot: Alex Ross & Jim Krueger (script) Art: Steve Sadowski & Patrick Berkenkotter Publisher: Marvel Comics/Dynamite Entertainment Reviewer: Rock-Me Amodeo

First off, when this series came out, I was dubious as to how good it could be. After all, super-team crossovers are tricky things, and rarely do they satisfy. The ones I always liked were the ones where you would spend time with two folks from each team as they went off and fought two or three folks from the team of bad guys (and the Grandmaster always seem to be involved, at least in the Marvel 616.)
So I’ve been pleasantly surprised from the first issue. The dialogue has been entertaining, with at least one or two good zingers each issue (I’m still chuckling over “chronundrum” from last month.) The artwork has been pretty good as well, maybe a little stiff here or there, but with a great sense of portent, of happenings larger than life. And the plot has delivered over the past few months. But this month, things unravel just a bit.
Not overall. The overall plot is fine, and a great way to bring the two teams together, even if a little disbelief must be suspended here and there. Yes, Cap and the rest of the Invaders had to be a little muddle headed to make things work. Yes, the Avengers seem to be unusually uncompromising. That’s the thing about these crossovers—there has to be a fight, at least at first. I get that.
But the fight this issue…ouch. One of my pet peeves is when heroes or villains are deliberately depowered for the sake of the plot. You know, where the main plot might be about minor character who has to step up when no one else can, and an explosion goes off that takes out Wasp, and Hawkeye…and Thor. Yeah, right. But that was what the plot called for.
In this case, instead of an explosion, we have one hero wielding the one power that no one can seem to resist: absolute moral authority. He’s mad, he’s been wronged, and he’s unstoppable. Hey, it worked for WORLD WAR HULK, right? Except in that case, we were dealing with the freaking Hulk. Not a human matchstick.
So when someone like the original Human Torch says something like “You’ve never dealt with anyone like me before”…I just have to laugh. Because I’m thinking that they have: flame guy, blue uniform, hangs out with his sister and Stretcho and, well, you know…I don’t buy it. So why do the Avengers? Because the plot demanded it. But shouldn’t there be at least one fire extinguisher on a carrier that size?
This is the Avengers, and the mighty ones at that. And when the Avengers fight the Torch, let us not forget that we have not one, not two, but THREE Thor-level folks. Wonder Man can’t take a little heat? Ares can’t take the heat? Hey, you’ve got the guy that so strong that he actually DID take out the Hulk at the end of WWH, the Sentry, and he can’t take the heat? I just had to laugh.
And the team somehow SO anemic that they’re having problems with a bunch of LMD’s? Heck, we can see the Wasp taking out one by herself, Black Widow is handling three, and I’m supposed to believe those heavy hitters AND Ms. Marvel can’t handle some robots?
Oh yes. I called them robots. I know the 616 has some unique life forms that are artificial in origin but human through circumstance. Personally, I’m still rooting for the original Vision to come back, grab the Scarlet Witch by her neck and yell “No more skipping your lithium!” So I have nothing against Android-Americans. But did I miss the part of the standard LMD assembly process that imbues them with a soul? We can’t decide as a society whether or not unborn children have a soul, and I’m supposed to feel empathy for a legion of gearboxes with eyeballs? But that’s not even the most presumptuous assumption: I appreciate the subtle nuance of a good metaphor, but did I really just read a comic that compares the plight of human-looking machines to the Holocaust?
Look, I’ll give the creative team, artists and writers all, their props. They almost sold me. The numbers on the arm of the LMD was a particularly powerful image, I’ll give them that, and a lot more. But with all the other artistic licenses already pulled, this issue just collapsed under its own pretension, for me at least.
That doesn’t mean I won’t pick up the next issue. It just means that something that was supposed to be dramatic and powerful wound up being a little silly.


Writer: Peter Tomasi Art: Fernando Pasarin (pencils), Mick Gray (inks) Publisher: DC Comics Reviewer: Optimous Douche

I was truly agog when I saw MAGOG #1 it sitting on the shelf at my local LCS. Tomasi’s work on GREEN LENTERN CORPS has made him a scribe I will gladly follow into books I have previously dropped (GREEN LANTERN CORPS) or titles I never considered before (AQUAMAN). I’m also a zealot for KINGDOM COME and one of the few fans OK with the fact that this once Elseworlds future is now relegated to one of the 52 alternate universes in this brave new world of what I can only call After CRISIS (sort of like after M*A*S*H* without Jamie Farr).
While Tomasi did an admirable job with this issue, there were two glaring flaws.
First off this is the comic that didn’t need to be made. Like the Alex Ross Superman special from a week prior that gave us deeper insight into Grecian formula Superman, this book was supposed to peel back the skullcap of the new Magog and justify why he dispenses justice in the form of murder. Now, before he was Magog, he was Lance Corporal David Reid, grandson of FDR and career military man. And there’s the justification. Military men kill bad guys. Well, that’s all well and good, but let’s also remember that before Reid was reincarnated as Magog he was a member of the JSA, a group that never kills no matter how nefarious the bad guys might be. I’m not quite sure how his transformation absolves him of the Golden Age tenet “thou shalt not kill,” but in his mind it does. I guess being transformed into the son of Gog made him forget his JSA training.
I’ll be the first to admit evil-doers are far more interesting when they have underlying motives as opposed to just simply being evil, but this is Magog for Gog’s sake. Fans of KINGDOM COME will buy into him being the foil in the upcoming JSA special because we all remember what an epic cock he was twelve years ago. JSA fans will buy into him being evil, because his creator Gog has been offing bad guys with a laissez-faire attitude during his endless walk of goodness for the past umpteen issues of JSA.
And there’s the second problem: here is another very special issue of JSA, with Gog doing what he does best…walking and smiling. When the story isn’t traversing Reid’s past in flashback, we see the JSA trying to change the course of a river that was poisoned by jungle guerillas and enlist the help of Forrest Gog. When Gog finally does decide to stop walking for a few minutes, he kills the guerillas by turning them into a purifying water elixir and fixes the river’s course by stomping his foot. Once again this Godly douche has taken life, and while the JSA gets very perturbed they still let this guy keep walking. And the foot stomping just felt lazy. This scene was either not written very well or interpreted poorly. One foot stomp, some rumble of rock and voila, all is right again in the third world.
As I said Tomasi weaves a fine tale, but this one just felt like an editorial mandate to siphon an extra $3.99 out of this seemingly never-ending story. Even with a damn interesting Starman back-up story by Johns I still felt cheated at the end of the day for some reason. Perhaps I’m jaded, or perhaps this simply should have been woven into the main JSA title. You be the judge.
When Optimous Douche isn’t reading comics and misspelling the names of 80’s icons, he “transforms” into a corporate communications guru. Optimous is looking for artistry help, critical feedback and a little industry insight to get his original book AVERAGE JOE up, up and on the shelves. What if the entire world had super powers? Find out in the blog section of Optimous’ MySpace page to see some preview pages and leave comments.


Writer/Artist: Eric Powell Colors: Dave Stewart Publisher: Dark Horse Comics Guest @$$Hole Reviewer: steverodgers

When you read THE GOON you enter a Depression-era American city, where the hobos have been swapped with slackjaw zombies and Woody Guthrie has been replaced with a 6 foot 5, newsboy-capped gangster thug and his Orphan Annie-eyed, psychopathic, midget pal Franky and society has broken down into a never-ending series of cartoon violence. The retro-art by Eric Powell with colorist Dave Stewart adds to the time-out-of-mind experience with painterly sequential storytelling that reminds the reader of something and somewhere that you can never quite place but you’re pretty sure you’ve read about— maybe the Yellow Kid is there, maybe Dick Tracy or maybe a hungry band of undead Little Rascals. But luckily, it’s only the Goon.
THE GOON’s world is dark, might is right, and magical paranormal hullabaloo rubs elbows with orphans and their werewolf dog. It’s a horrible place that you want to visit each month because of the sophisticated juvenile humor that comes packed into each issue. THE GOON is funny. When you pay money for this comic you know that you are going to laugh, that things and people are going to be brutalized (then brutalized again) in some fantastic way, and if you’re lucky there might be a man whoring out his reluctant horse. Somehow it all adds up to a pretty sunny yarn that’s a solid diversion from whatever it is you need to be diverted from. It’s an elementary school Field Day sprint down into hell.
Recently, however, THE GOON has taken on a more somber feel. Powell has expressed his desire to bring more “depth” to THE GOON and that has meant a little less humor, more melodrama and a lot more killing, as the Goon jockeys with his nemesis Labrazio and his Lonely Street hordes for control of the town. Goon’s gang, whom we have grown to love over 30 issues, is being whittled down by the murderous Labrazio. This includes the Bog Lurk creature, Bill Mudd, one of the loveable Mudd Brothers who was sold out by the treacherous Merle the werewolf; the Goon in retribution tortures Merle through the night and finally a darker Goon than we are used too offs him with a silver bullet. Something about this change of tone had rattled me a bit, especially in this issue. Maybe it is the heartwarming scene between a pal of the Goon’s and the orphans that is prematurely broken up by Labrazio; maybe it is the dire warning of Taliba the Gypsy to the Goon to not let darkness touch his heart (it’s starting to touch mine); or Franky adding heretofore unseen emotional weight by accepting the Goon’s bond with his ex-girlfriend (she wronged him) even while he reminds her of his past threat to murder her. The serious turn of the comic makes all the exuberant throttling and “floppy neck syndrome” that has happened in the past seem a little bit more real.
All of this is getting me to see a new Goon. Maybe the Goon isn’t a loveable thug operating in a cartoon world; maybe he’s just an opportunistic bully, the type of guy who will kill a dude over some ripe sauerkraut. Maybe a knife to the eye isn’t that funny—maybe it’s actually a knife to the eye. By adding “depth,” Powell has taken away the two-dimensionality that lets us laugh at all the torture and mayhem and makes me wonder if we are to take these characters seriously, then aren’t their actions serious, and doesn’t that make me seriously disturbed for laughing?
Maybe I am reading too much into it and a knife to the eye is always funny. In the end the art alone will have me happily following Powell into whatever zombie ridden hobo-jungle kill zone he has planned for the Goon and his pals. It does however change the way I read the comic; I am really not sure what the next issue of THE GOON will bring and I am unsure of what my expectations should be.
With this issue, Powell really seems to be trying to stretch the world and characters he created and although currently for me it’s not as good as what came before, I’m betting each month with my comic book dollar it might end up being that much better in the end.


Writer: Andy Diggle Artist: Roberto De La Torre Publisher: Marvel Comics Reviewer: Rock-Me Amodeo

There seems to be a tendency in my favorite team books where the writer builds all his characterization into the surrounding players, and merely uses the title characters as foils and props. I can’t remember the last time I read two consecutive issues of AVENGERS that actually featured Avengers. THUNDERBOLTS has been doing this for a while, too, (during Gage’s mandated SECRET INVASION crossover, and before with Ellis) but Ellis did such a great job, no one cared. His run was like an all-you-can-eat buffet of beer and funnel cakes at the county fair. And we all indulged with gusto, myself included, happily. Only recently did I wake up with a literary hangover, smelling of grease and confectionery sugar, and wondering forlornly, “Whatever happened to The Thunderbolts?”
You remember them. Melissa, Karla, Abe, Hallie, know…PEOPLE. Actual characters. Not props.
Well, this issue, I think, marks the return of the Thunderbolts in a way I remember. Where we get to see what these people are thinking, what they’re planning, and not just reacting to the crisis de jour. Where we see the sometimes fine line between pragmatic, brutal “heroes” and villains that operate barely this side of the law. These were the things that made this book great, and they are here again.
Though most of the focus is on Osborn (maybe a little too long), much focus was on Songbird, and I would love to see her return to center stage. She is the heart of the Thunderbolts, much as Captain America has always been the heart of the Avengers, at least until she BECOMES an Avenger. And she’s never going to fulfill her destiny of becoming an Avenger at this rate (or maybe she needs to be pushed OFF this stage and onto a bigger one?) I would love to see Robbie do more than sulk or burn, and I think we’re on our way with this issue. I think Chen deserved some face time, but it looks like he’s not going to get much more; if he doesn’t, then everyone missed their chance to flesh out a fascinating character.
The fact that Osborn and Bullseye are feature prominently makes me feel that one of them may well be on their way out, which would make me quite happy. And at least one of them NEEDS to go.
As much fun as these characters are, they’re like twice as much curry in a good recipe: once you add that much, it tends to overpower everything else. No one can be nuanced with two pit-bulls in the ranks. My guess is Bullseye is bye-bye, while Osborn sets up for an even larger stage that reflects his place in the new, post SI status quo. We’ll see.
At any rate, instead of caring for the bit players (American Eagle, five-armed Spider-Guy, Doc Samson) and watching the main characters from a distance, Diggle is allowing us to watch two of the characters (Karla and Melissa) that made this book…at least until he shakes everything up in another issue or two. Still, I’ll take it. And De La Torre’s artwork is nothing short of outstanding.
This book continues to impress, and Diggle’s first issue at Marvel (since his PUNISHER one-shot) is an excellent benchmark of things to come. He will hopefully make the book his own, and I think we’re seeing the beginning of that. And I don’t think Diggle is rearranging the “pieces” so much as he is working with his characters (there IS a difference.)


Story: Tim Seeley (script) & Barry Keating Art: Emily Stone Publisher: Devil’s Due Reviewer: Ambush Bug

HACK/SLASH is a love note to 80’s horror--specifically, a love note to slasher horror that was prominent in the 80’s. Having been weaned on the teat that was 80’s horror, I often find myself enjoying HACK/SLASH. Sure, horror from that time gets a bad rap. It is often called misogynistic, unimaginative, and downright cheesy, but there’s nothing like a good old 80’s slash n’ dash film to make me smile. Writer/series creator Tim Seeley must share my passion for horror from that time because from cover to cover, HACK/SLASH homages the hell out of it.
This latest HACK/SLASH arc raised some controversy when the legal department representing the RE-ANIMATOR movies tussled with Devil’s Due over the rights to use the Herbert West character. I can understand protecting the rights of your property, but in reality, HACK/SLASH is only guilty of writing a pretty fine story and making me want to rewatch those old RE-ANIMATOR movies.
As with the last crossover involving the stars of HACK/SLASH’s meeting with killer doll Chucky from CHILD’S PLAY, writer Seeley, with some help from writer Barry Keating, doesn’t just hamfist mad doctor Herbert West into the story. They give Herbert West an important role to play in the origin of Cassie Hack, the star of this series. Seems he worked with Cassie’s father for a time. Not only that, but West brings Cassie’s serial killer mother back from the grave to torment her even more. The fact that Dr. West is tied so closely to our star really makes the story more than just a throw-away crossover.
The crossover isn’t the only cool thing about this series. HACK/SLASH delves into the mythology of the 80’s serial killer and tries to make connections and explanations that never really have been dealt with before. What gives all of these killers their motivation? Why do they seem to all be impervious to pain? And why do they never seem to die? Sure, the real reason for this is because in the 80’s there are knock-offs after knock-offs of groundbreaking horror films such as BLACK CHRISTMAS, HALLOWEEN, and FRIDAY THE 13th, but when set in the comic book world of HACK/SLASH, explanations more interesting than mere hackery are delved into. The result is a respectful and smart tribute to a genre of horror that more often than not is scoffed at by the general public.
For quite some time, I have been waiting for someone with talent to come along and highlight that which was special in those 80’s chillers. HACK/SLASH does this in spades and is worth a look to horror movie fans. This crossover with the RE-ANIMATOR is yet another great arc in a series that continues to be a winner.
Ambush Bug is Mark L. Miller, reviewer and co-editor at AICN Comics for over seven years. Check out a five page preview of his short story published in MUSCLES & FIGHTS 3 (AVAILABLE NOW at Muscles & on his ComicSpace page. There you can also see a five page preview of his short story in MUSCLES & FRIGHTS! Bug was recently interviewed here and here at Cream City Comics.


Written by: Raven Gregory (with Joe Brusha and Ralph Tedesco) Illustrated by: Dan Leister Published by: Zenescope Entertainment Reviewed by: Ryan McLelland

I’m a relative newbie to Zenescope’s line of what I like to call “totally screwing with classic fairy tales.” I AM a big fan of the genre (even working on a book like that myself) so it is a big sigh of relief to get a killer book like BEYOND WONDERLAND in my grubby little hands.
While the book is a continuation of the Wonderland saga already presented in other Zenescope titles like RETURN TO WONDERLAND, readers luckily don’t need the early books to get what the hell is going on. What is going on? Well it is not about some ten-year-old named Alice running amok in some strange land.
Rather the book follows a busty brunette named Lacy who has since fled Wonderland for the safe streets of New York City. That’s right…safe streets, as Wonderland is a far-off place full of horrible creatures and constant danger. Lacy has changed her name, gotten a job, and is trying to get on with her life though she is consistently haunted by the horrible Wonderland memories.
Though the girl can escape Wonderland, it seems there are those in Wonderland, like the twisted Mad Hatter, who will never let Calie (Lacy’s old moniker) go – doing whatever they can to screw over her life in this world. That’s right – the horrendous fairy tale has brought horror straight to Lacy’s doorstep as her life quickly falls apart.
This series is wonderful, brought to life by the phenomenal artwork of Dan Leister. This guy is a full-on kung-fu master of the ‘good girl’ art. Never have I been more thankful to an artist for bringing the New York City streets to life and filling it with beautiful women like Lacy. I sort of feel like a perv from that statement, but I am reading a modern day fairy-tale nightmare starring a totally hot chick so I don’t feel too bad. Raven Gregory unwinds this nightmare with finesse and I’m just pissed because I don’t have the next issue…something I need to pick up NOW. For those looking for a haunting experience starring characters you’ve loved in the past that will scare the hell out of you now, BEYOND WONDERLAND is the book for you.
Ryan McLelland has worked in movies and comics journalism for the past several years before joining the @$$holes here at AICN. Ryan’s comic work has already graced comic shelves with Arcana’s PHILLY, WISE INTELLIGENCE, UPTOWN GIRL, and THE SENTINELS ANTHOLOGY. He rarely updates his blog but when he does it can be read at


By Yasunori Mitsunaga Released by Del Rey Reviewer: Scott Green

There are a number of phrases that I attempt to avoid whenever possible. "Slice of life." "Like X on mind altering substance Y." And, relevant to PRINCESS RESURRECTION, "guilty pleasure." Not only is this latter one overused, I don't find it to be particularly accurate. It's not as if by watching trashy anime or reading offensive manga you're wasting time that you otherwise would have spent deriving a solution to the global financial meltdown. Yet, given the kind of anime and manga of which I've been critical, defending PRINCESS RESURRECTION as a favorite is a bit tricky.
Hiro Hiyorimi is an unembellished instance of the nobody who gets the girl(s) character archetype. Starting out as an entirely nondescript school boy, he's brought back from his accidental death to become the champion of Hime (literally "princess"), the second daughter in the royal line of monsters. This unlikely prominence is compounded as the female members of Hime's fractious yet growing monster cadre develop affections for the undead loser. The classmates who can spit blood in jealousy that the clueless Hiro gets to spend time with the local vampire student queen bee or the hot blooded werewolf girl tend to be a bit cretinous, and Hiro seems like an okay guy, but if PRINCESS RESURRECTION weren't otherwise interesting, this agency-free blank slate would make for an aggravating protagonist.
This sort of wish fulfillment relationship comedy can be given to more pandering than cleverness. However, personally, PRINCESS RESURRECTION overcame my antipathy for that part of the premise. I'm not going to say that PRINCESS RESURRECTION is one of the more inspired manga that you can find, but Mitsunaga's appealing design mixed with an affection for horror tropes does it for me.
In PRINCESS RESURRECTION, you get what the cover advertises: the manga version of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER - avenging last girl. Each volume features an image of Hime in a goth gown hefting some extravagant weapon, such as the giant pair of scissors on volume four. Hime in her scream queen regalia and Hiro in his shirt and slacks wander into a ghost town and find something a bit like one of the European interpretations of a slasher movie. From a farm house, she grabs an imposing scythe, he grabs a hoe, and the death match against the local bag headed stalker is on. Volume four also offers the bickering, hand-cuffed vampire and werewolf in a showdown against a Harryhausen cyclops, an ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 / Alamo situation against a horde of lesser vampires, and a cross between THE FLY and MIMIC in a sub-mansion system of catacombs.
As PRINCESS RESURRECTION is read, you're watching someone who is evidentially a genre fan construct homages to a wide range of favorites, then execute those familiar set pieces with manga vitality. Mitsunaga gets into a fluid rhythm with the manga's illustration. The sexy young women of anime/manga are cast with an eye towards fashion and black (the shade, not the mood) aesthetic. These character don't lose their attractive distinctiveness as Mitsunaga fits them into intricately rendered horror context shots. Panels of a stubby Franken-maid at the shore of a murky lake or wolf and vampire looking into a stone, medieval European street are beautiful examples of cross genre/cross cultural mash-ups. Working off this, Mitsunaga goes in a couple of intertwined directions. There's action/violence, which is often people getting stabbed, bludgeoned or otherwise grievously injured, often with storms of speed lines, gushers of inky blood and infernos of flame; PRINCESS RESURRECTION is manga that does love its arterial sprays and dismemberments. And, there's slapstick with comic strip style cartooned expressiveness.
The accumulation of these elements is shamelessly fun, even if it isn't genre defining brilliance. Its faults are actually a testament to the extent of its accomplishments. Though there is a progressing continuity at work in PRINCESS RESURRECTION, it is very situation based. A premise is introduced, and while there might be ongoing implications, matters are resolved over the course of a 40 page chapter. Maybe as a function of fitting the development and resolution of the story into that page count, the manga ends up doing a lot of teasing. Both small and grand elements that are introduced never see action. A given story promises the deployment of an army in violation of Hime's game of king making. This will probably be brought to bear later, but in that story, it was a disappointment. In another case, the cast gears up, with Hime grabbing a chainsaw, Hiro a battle axe, and the Franken-maid a sledge hammer. Turn the page, and the action is resolved, the characters are drinking tea, and the story is ending.
Beyond that, and despite the frequency of characters getting shanked in the ribs, it is often more about the impression than actual, graphic violence. For example, a character promises to torture Hiro, then comically slaps him around, followed by a later panel with a bloody knife getting licked. This difference between expectation and actuality might be partially the result of unfamiliarity with the manga's background. PRINCESS RESURRECTION ran in SHONEN SIRIUS. That's an anthology dominated by moe or bishojo manga, with cute girls integrated into various genres from sci-fi/fantasy to horror like PRINCESS RESURRECTION. As opposed to an anthology like SHONEN ACE (home to MPD PSYCHO and THE KUROSAGI CORPSE DELIVERY SERVICE), you're really not likely to get stomach turning expressions of grisly scenes.
PRINCESS RESURRECTION’s a cute enough and fun enough date that it's possible to forgive plenty of it's teasing. Early on, the manga seemed to be limiting itself to the Universal Monsters. When that was the scope, the manga looked like it might have been in danger of wearing out its premise. In that respect, volume four turns the corner. As Mitsunaga's set the sights wider for the manga's inspirations, concerns about tiring of seeing Hime swat monsters with chainsaws have been allayed. Especially as a horror fan, the manga's been evocative enough that it's created anticipation for what's coming next. It isn't often that the untranslated, out of context previews pages that Del Rey appends to their manga releases excite me, but a glimpse of the cast in a DAY OF THE DEAD scenario earns PRINCESS RESURRECTION VOLUME FIVE a spot on my looking-forward-to calendar.
Scott Green has been writing for AICN ANIME for close to seven years. If you like what you see here and love anime & manga, be sure to check out his latest AICN ANIME column here.


Written and Illustrated by: Tite Kubo Publisher: VIZ Media Reviewer: Ryan McLelland

I was totally unfamiliar with BLEACH, which you can take as I’ve been truly out of the loop on some books or series. BLEACH is popular the world over and for good reason – it is a fairly unique and fun story by Tite Kubo. Viz Media has put together a great BLEACH COLLECTOR’S EDITION HC which is perfect for those looking for a better copy for your bookshelf.
The plot is not so simple: Bleach is a 15-year-old student from a, as usual, not so normal family. Bleach himself can see ghosts, which doesn’t really bother him much until he starts seeing big ol’ angry ghosts. Through circumstances beyond his control, Bleach becomes a Soul Reaper whose job is to kill the angry ghosts thusly releasing them from Earth for the after-afterlife.
There’s nothing truly new here. While called a ‘Collector’s Edition’ there isn’t any extras, pin-ups, sketches, or thought processes by Kubo. Rather if you’ve read BLEACH before basically what you are paying for is just the hardcover. The hardcover is pretty damn sweet so if it is your thing and you don’t already own BLEACH it is well worth the pickup. However if you have BLEACH in your collection already and wondering what this offers beyond a snazzy dust cover then you are better off not even putting too much thought into it.


By Grant Gould Publisher: Super Real Graphics Reviewer: superhero

Throughout history there have been certain perfect combinations: peanut butter and chocolate, sex and leather, super-heroes and secret identities. Well, now it looks like another pairing can be added to that list: Vikings and werewolves. Or, I should say, Vikings versus werewolves. That's the basic concept for WOLVES OF ODIN, the new one shot from SuperReal Graphics.
The story here is pretty straightforward. In ancient Norse lands a band of werewolves have been roaming the countryside, decimating village after village, leaving almost no survivors in their wake. No one can stand against them except for a small group of Viking warriors, and even they are facing what seem to be impossible odds. At first read the story seems every bit as bit simplistic as the basic concept, but as the book continues certain elements are revealed that add a layer of creepy mysticism to the tale. WOLVES OF ODIN takes great advantage of the trappings of its genre and plays not only on the combat aspect of Viking history and fiction but draws much from the religious folklore of the period as well. Thor, Odin, and even a certain trickster half-brother all play a major role in the book even if they themselves are not actually physically present. As a result WOLVES is elevated beyond just being a hack and slash horror tale with a twist.
Creator Grant Gould does a great job of delivering an impressive package with WOLVES OF ODIN. The art in the book is very well done and Gould has an obvious talent for setting up the perfect atmosphere in a particular scene with his use of color. While I thought some of the actual figure drawing looked a bit rushed in places, Gould more than makes up for that with his coloring skill and his direct storytelling ability. ODIN is a book that has a unique and gloomy look to it--a look that is perfectly suited for the story being told.
With this latest publication, SuperReal Graphics puts out another winning book. Much like their previous comic, GNOME, this book takes me back to days gone by. This time, though, WOLVES OF ODIN reminds me of the hours upon hours of time spent at a tabletop rolling dice with my D & D friends. Those were good times and any comic book that can give me the same old feeling I had when I was rolling a twenty sided die to fend off a marauding gang of orcs is a great comic book indeed.
Discovered as a babe in an abandoned comic book storage box and bitten by a radioactive comic fan when he was a teenager, superhero is actually not-so mild mannered sometime designer & cartoonist, Kristian Horn of Los Angeles, California. He's been an @$$hole for three years. Some of his work can be seen at


Written and Illustrated by: H.C. Noel Published by Alterna Comics Reviewed by: Ryan McLelland

Someone should seriously give Alterna Comics an award, because in collecting the amazing MR SCOOTLES saga in one massive trade paperback they have published their finest book. I have a true kinship for MR SCOOTLES; it was one of the first indie books I found when I got into comic journalism. My quote, from another site I once worked for, proudly graces the back cover shouting, "It's Damn Good!" I was lucky enough to sit at the same table with Noel at one great SPX where we drank excessively and tried hard to sell each other's books. I also covered a story where MR SCOOTLES was being put out by another publisher without Noel's control.
So what the hell is the hubbub all about? The story follows two art students who find a film can that contains a long forgotten cartoon of MR SCOOTLES. Watching this cartoon sets off a chain of events that could literally bring Hell to Earth's doorstep. Mr. Scootles himself is born and lands in hell, trying to make his way through a world that doesn't make sense while, back on Earth, the art students find themselves embroiled in what could be the most important mistake of all time.
MR SCOOTLES is unique, the plot phenomenal, the pacing amazing, the artwork superb...I really think there aren't enough adjectives in the world to do this book justice. How good is it? It's damn good...too damn good...and I'm so glad that this collection is out so those out there who never had a chance to read it can finally do so. For fans who love the series there is also reason to buy the trade, as the latest "issue" was never put to print as an individual comic and saved for this collection, wrapping up the first arc of this series.
MR SCOOTLES is just a book that won't disappoint, especially for those out there looking to get away from the same old crap you read month after month. With this wide release we can only hope that the book gets a wider audience and thusly causes new issues to come more often then they have. Head to toe and start to finish Noel has created a book that is truly timeless. There is, without a doubt, no other indie book on the market today that I could recommend higher.

Hey folks, Ambush Bug here. We’ve got a heaping helping of Indie goodness for just in time for Turkey Day! We’ve got a pair of biographical works (one for a dancer, the other a master of the macabre), an adaptation of one of the most important documents in US history, a pair of highly original zombie prose, and a book done in 24 hours. So say Grace, and dig in to some comics with an independent flavor.


Teachers be aware! This was the most interesting and entertaining mode of education about the United States Constitution I have ever read. I remember my Social Studies class. Sure, I got a lot out of Mr. Worthington’s long-winded lectures, but I’m sure even he was bored with some of the stuff he was teaching my fresh young mind. If only Mr. Worthington had this book, I think I may have retained even more of one of the building blocks of our country. I’ve read some biographical and educational comic books in my time and the one thing that all of them had in common was that they were boring as hell. Just because the material is not the most exciting in the world, that doesn’t mean the comic has to be visually stagnant. Hill & Wang’s US Constitution adaptation is the exact opposite. It offers a variety of cool imagery and vivid storytelling. There’s not a dry or boring page in this book. Sure, it’s filled with crucial facts behind both the making of the Constitution and the article itself, but writer Jonathan Hennessey and artist Aaron Mitchell give it their all to make the story fresh and alive. I’m serious when I recommend this to teachers all around. Instead of that stale old Social Studies book you’ve been reading since I LOVE LUCY dominated the airwaves, order THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION: A GRAPHIC ADAPTATION. You will be educating the kids and entertaining them too. If you’re looking to get your students engaged or if you’re just interested in a refresher course on US History, check this book out.


First they make the US Constitution cool again, now Hill & Wang do what big time comic book publishers like IDW (with their Barbiturate-laced PRESIDENTIAL MATERIAL biographies of Obama & McCain) fail to do: make an interesting biography. This book succeeds for the same reason THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION: A GRAPHIC ADAPTATION does: it presents the story and art in a genuinely creative manner. In this case, writer/artist Sabrina Jones’ fascination with the influential dancer is evident from the very first page. Jones shows great artistic range by transcribing the ups and downs of Ms. Duncan, a true free spirit who lived in a time when it wasn’t accepted to do so. Although poo-pooed by the elite for her barefoot and robed dances reflecting inner thoughts and feelings rather than classical ballet techniques, Isador managed to raise children, marry, develop her own schools of dance, and influence modern dance to this very day. Sure, the spandex and ‘splosions crowd may scoff at this type of book, but it serves as a true testament to the versatility of comic books and a gateway drug to a whole new population that may have never stepped into a comic shop. Who said learning has to be boring? Reading these books by Hill & Wang really taught me something--something I can’t say for the latest (or any) issue of ASBAR. In the end, ISADORA DUNCAN: A GRAPHIC BIOGRAPHY is a book done with care and oozing with affirmation for and inspiration to those bold enough to dance and dream.


This is an impressive first issue of a magazine that looks like it will be focusing on a different aspect of horror in each issue. Issue one focuses on Edgar Allen Poe. The magazine offers a new Poe origin tale of sorts. Being the enigmatic and mysterious figure that he was, Poe’s life lends itself to a lot of artistic interpretation. This historical jaunt interweaves highlights of Poe’s more famous stories with actual facts. The inclusion of the actual inscription on Poe’s tombstone was pretty indicative that the man only achieved fame after he was in the grave, yet the tragedy of his life is presented in fine form here. The book also highlights some very talented gothic artists and a few stabs at short fiction. I found this magazine to be a pretty thorough and engrossing look at one of horror’s most famous authors and a nice showcase for gothic talent in the ways of both the printed word and the drawn/painted line.


Although I can’t qualify this pair of short novels printed on paper with a graphic illustration on the cover as traditional comic books, I can qualify them as some damn fine reading. Both books were offered for sale at this year’s Monroeville, Pennsyvania 2008 Zombie Fest and both stories are of the highest quality. THIN THEM OUT is a parallel tale of one zombie’s journey and a group of survivors who are on a collision course. Written by Kim Paffenroth, R.J. Sevin, and Julia Sevin, this story does what so few zombie comics fail to do: offer something new to the zombie genre. Here not only do we go into the mind of a zombie, but the survivors are faced with such moral dilemmas as which children to bring with them while fleeing zombies. This is a surprisingly personal tale about one zombie who has a fleeting grasp on what it was like to be a human and a group of humans who are forced to release that grasp in order to survive. It is a harrowing tale with a pulse that quickens right up to the last word.
The second chapbook entitled FLESH IS FLEETING…ART IS FOREVER (or, SOME BULLSHIT WILL CONTINUE EVEN AFTER THE DEAD WIPE US OUT) is probably the best zombie story I’ve read this year. This is true mainly because it tells a zombie story from a perspective that is completely fresh and told in a way that has never been done before in the zombie genre. A type of zombie fiction that is becoming more and more fascinating to me is a story that moves past the initial outbreak type tale and tells a story set in a society that has already accepted that the dead rise. Sure it’s still unsettling, but telling a story of what happens after the first shock is something that is more interesting to me. And that’s what you get with this book, which focuses on a famous conductor’s effort to bring back Art to a post-apocalyptic society. Written as if it were to be submitted to the high society section of a newspaper or finer magazine, this story focuses on every minute detail from the quality of the programs to the decorations in the auditorium…everything except the fact that the orchestra is made of zombies. The story makes the mundane interesting by satirizing pish-posh reviewers and those who spell art with a capital A and crescendos with a grand finale that elevates this story from amusing to something quite profound and imaginative. It’s a story that must be read to get the entire message. And don’t worry, those of you who avoid prose like vampires to crosses--these chapbooks are quick reads, but within those short prose pages is some of the coolest zombie action you’ll read this year.

MASSIVE HEADACHE: A 24 Hour Comic by Dale Wallain

In this day and age where primadonna artists take months upon years to finish a 22 page comic, I think some words of praise should be offered to those professional artists out there with enough dedication to finish their drawing in a timely manner. Artist Dale Wallain draws with indie flair, so you folks who want polished photo-realism are sure to be disappointed, but nevertheless, Wallain’s command of the pencil is impressive. This story tells a simple tale of one man’s personal struggle with migraines. I don’t know if the artist himself suffers from this malady, but the story is heartfelt enough for me to believe in this pain on the page. If the speedy hands of Mr. Wallain can craft this type of terrific yarn in a mere 24 hours, the work he takes his time on should be fantastic. Pampered artisans look out, there’s a whole crop of artists out there more than willing to step into those shoes your manicured toes reside in. If you don’t put down the X-Box and start working in a professional manner, you may find your job filled by such talented and worthy artisans as Dale Wallain. You can read Wallain’s full 24 hour story on his MySpace page.

Well, that should be enough to fill you up until next time. If you have an indie book you want one of the @$$Holes to look at for review, click on the name of your favorite @$$Hole and let them know.

Ambush Bug is Mark L. Miller, reviewer and co-editor of AICN Comics for over seven years. Check out a five page preview of his short story published in MUSCLES & FIGHTS 3 (AVAILABLE NOW at Muscles & on his ComicSpace page. There you can also see a five page preview of his short story in MUSCLES & FRIGHTS! Bug was recently interviewed here and here at Cream City Comics.

FANTASTIC FOUR #561 Marvel Comics

YAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNN! Gah. Well, damn. Is this story arc still going on? Looks like the big finale finally came about and it turned out to be quite the dud. Now, if this story had some balls, they’d have ****SPOILER**** killed off young Sue instead of offing the old one****END SPOILER****, instead we’re back to Status Quo’sville, hep cats. This really has been an underwhelming run for Millar, proving that even he doesn’t have the Midas Touch for everything. Even with the talented pencils of Bryan Hitch, this book still lacks the luster to even be mildly entertaining. My only hope is that Millar will move on to his next project and a creative team understanding of the concept of family and fun will be assigned to this book. Right now, it’s about as boring as you can get. - Bug

X-FACTOR #37 Marvel Comics

What a difference the right artist can make! Larry Stroman’s grotesque and near-abstract pages just didn’t mesh with the down-to-earth attitude of Madrox’s team of mutants (well, down-to-earth compared to the other X-books, anyway), but with the more realistic pencils of Valentine DeLandro on this issue, everything fell into place. Jamie Madrox looks human again rather than looking like some sort of hamster; ditto for Monet and Siryn, and DeLandro actually manages to update Longshot’s uber-mullet into a hairstyle that, while still keeping business in the front and party in the back, manages to look hip. And the plot and subplots that had been faltering over the past few issues are now cooking nicely. This book just jumped from my “one-more-issue-then-I’m-dropping-it” list to the “can’t-wait-to-see-what-happens-next” list. - BottleImp


I’ve gotta give Frank Tieri some credit for stocking this new lineup of Outsiders with some offbeat choices. I like the idea of Batgirl trying to replace the “mysteriously missing” Batman with a set of heroes that don’t measure up to the Caped Crusader by themselves, but represent all of the Batman’s talents and abilities when put together. Tieri’s got balls dropping the previous cast of the book in favor of a completely new crew. But a shake up is needed for this title which has been losing steam from the beginning. Vigilante, Spoiler, Man Bat, Batgirl, and possibly the Riddler--sounds like a fun mix. Now if only Tieri would toss in other Gotham oddities like Ragman, Richard Dragon, and maybe even Jason Blood, this would be a comic to stand up and cheer for. The art is decent from Fernando Dagnino, but he could work on making Man Bat look a bit more monstrous and a bit less goofy. I’m going to be trailing close behind this book to see if the stories match the cool cast being set up. It’s not the comic itself, but the potential coolness of this comic that will have me back for another issue. - Bug

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #578 Marvel Comics

Well, BND is long behind us, and the days of hip, happening Peter Parker and his groovy friends are hopefully long gone, too. And, as always, I miss Mary Jane, I do. Any issue I pick up, I pick it up wanting to hate it. But I can’t deny this was a good story. With Mark Waid at the helm, and pencils by Marcos Martin, I think the weakest page of the whole book was probably the first page. I possibly should have made this a full review, but it would have been just me saying over and over again “I can’t believe how much I enjoyed this issue.” Great, eye-catching artwork and a classic villain. Also, as a true-blue comic geek, I truly appreciated the homage to several classic Ditko-era Spiderman poses. One was, of course, the classic “Spidey holds something heavy over his head,” but the last page was also very cool, with the introduction of a character that completely took me by surprise. Recommended. - Rock-Me

THE HELM #4 (of 4) Dark Horse Comics

Well, it’s over and everything is more or less wrapped up in a nice little package (there are still little details that remain somewhat nebulous, but perhaps I’m nitpicking). Writer Jim Hardison mentions in the letters page that he has more HELM stories in mind, so even though the majority of this miniseries never again reached the level of entertainment that was contained in the first issue, there’s hope that the comic potential of a fat fanboy and his talking hat will be explored more fully down the road. - BottleImp


Another damn fine issue from writer Gregg Hurwitz, who continues to write some gritty action upholding the quality of this book after Ennis’ departure. My only complaint is with the fucktards in editorial who decided to put a gigantic spoiler on the cover which ruins the big reveal of the issue. Now, I understand they wanted to cash in on the tie-in with the upcoming film, and I probably should have seen it coming in this story, but I was honestly let down when I saw the cover to this issue. Despite the cover, though, this is still a great comic. But the cover really does a disservice to the excellent story. - Bug

If you missed Monday’s Shoot the Messenger Column, you missed a huge interview with THE UMBRELLA ACADEMY writer and MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE frontman Gerard Way where he talked about the new UA miniseries, the upcoming UA movie, and a ton of other stuff. You also missed out on previews for SHEENA and UNKNOWN SOLDIER (in stores now) and SUPER HUMAN RESOURCES (available to order in December and in stores in February). Plus the winners to our JOHN HOWE: FORGING DRAGONS/HOBBIT Casting Call Contest were announced. Check it out here and look for SHOOT THE MESSENGER every Monday with news, interviews, previews, and all other types of ews!

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Remember, if you have a comic book you’d like one of the @$$holes to take a look at, click on your favorite reviewer’s link and drop us an email.

Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 26, 2008, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Well written article.

    by Shan

    As always by AICN Comics. <p> And yes I read it before posting.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Why dont you ever mention Aarden's Flash Gordon?

    by kingjovis

    The book is amazing. It certainly is a classic character and issues #1 and #2 sold out from Diamond. Issue #0 was premiered at last year's NYCC. Seriously...what gives? Jovis

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:07 a.m. CST

    Like You Didn't See The CopOut Death In F4 A Mile Away

    by LaserPants

    Lets see, we have an arc called "The Death of Sue Richards," and we have young, hot Sue Richards, and an olde crone Sue Richards from a different timeline. Gee wiz, I wonder which one is going to die? Duh.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Does Beyond Wonderland Alice take on The Jabberwocky?

    by Squashua

    You know what I mean. Because if not, then those covers are just a tease.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Is Millar's FF even in continuity?

    by sean bean

    I mean, is this happening pre- or post-skrulliness? Too many big ideas got thrown in the mix here which have massive implications for the wider MU. For example (*SPOILER*), Galactus dies quietly in this issue. Galactus. And how did the New Defenders supposedly overpower him and the Silver Surfer in the first place? Oh, and Doctor Doom, too, for that matter.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Anyone mentioned that She Hulk is cancelled?

    by V'Shael

    Anyone give a flying fuck?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:45 a.m. CST


    by fanboyspodcast

    2008 was the worst year ever for Amazing Spider-Man. I wish the AICN Crew would pick better books to review each month besides this crap.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:48 a.m. CST

    That Punisher cover is cool.

    by rev_skarekroe

    I don't read the book, so I don't know about spoilers, but it's a great design.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Sean Bean - That Galactus...

    by alfiemoon

    ...was the Galactus from the future, wasn't it? So, like the death of future-Sue, didn't make quite as many waves as the death of the present-day version would have. And see the previous issues for the story of how Galactus was brought down (which still feels a little bit forced and unlikely, but anyway). And if they can overpower Galactus, they can definitely take down Doom easily enough.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    I miss Baracuda.

    by cookylamoo

    Yes, I know he had to die, but he was the greatest Punisher villain ever.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Oh please,

    by Joenathan

    A. Who amongst you thought, for even a second, that they were actually going to kill off regular continuity Sue? Who? Come on. Come on. <br><br>B. If... IF... they had actually killed off regular continuity Sue, I honestly believe that several posters here would have died from anger induced strokes, Bug included, so don't pretend for a SECOND that any of you actually wished that the comic had "had some balls". What Bug forgot to include in his "review" was the line. "P.S. I hate Millar and everything he does, so I don't ever plan on liking any of it."<br><br>I think Millar's FF has shown an easy familiarity with each other that showcases their long standing family status. The way the four of them interact with each other, they way they accept each other, often with a tinge of eye-rolling indulgence, not only showcases their history, but highlights that these people know each other very, very well, that they are more than friends, they are family and that they may get thrown off balance at times, but when the chips are down, they come together. And as for fun... We just saw Galactus burned to a husk, we've had fights that have destroyed buildings and future heroes and all sorts of craziness. What are you really looking for? Wah-wah-wah jokes?<br><br>Admittedly, this Four is a different tone from previous versions, but lets be honest, how long has it been since the FF was anything more than hum-drum status quo plodding along? How long has it been since any of us actually cared enough to mention FF?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Future Galactus's death

    by Joenathan

    Didn't the new Defenders say that they lost like 100 and some heroes subdueing him? That seems to make sense, especially considering how easily they whipped Doom's ass, so they're obviously powerful.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:37 a.m. CST

    RE: Anyone mentioned that She Hulk is cancelled?

    by cookepuss

    Q: "Anyone give a flying fuck?"<p> <p> A: No.<p> <p> Ever since Slott left, the book has turned into a piece of shit. As credible a Hulk writer PAD is, he's got ZERO handle on Shulkie. He stinks. He's driven her book into the ground. To take her from "Ally McBeal" to "Dog the Bounty Hunter" destroyed everything that made the book so unique. <p> <p> With the exception of the X-Factor SI crossover, I happily dumped this book from my "must read" list a long time ago.<p> <p> She-Hulk works best when it's a funny book first and a superhero action book second. Even with her superhero antics, it's always worked best with that court room dramedy vibe first.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:41 a.m. CST

    But then...

    by Joenathan

    Isn't She-Hulk just... Daredevil?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Also doesn't help..

    by cookepuss

    .. that her great supporting cast was driven into the ground too.<p> <p> As for killing off 616 Sue... Totally possible. Jean Grey has croaked more times than Kermit. Shit. Even Thing died... and then Reed "rescued" him from Heaven. Death in comics is like going to New Jersey. It sucks, but at least you can always come back.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST

    She-Hulk != Daredevil

    by cookepuss

    Daredevil has a totally different feel. She-Hulk's supporting cast of B-listers like Awesome Andy & the Two Gun Kid made it much more light hearted. Comedy was always at the front - at least one laugh per page. There was none of this heavy Lady Bullseye, Hand, or Kingpin stuff that can make Daredevil a serious book at times. If you've ever read Slott's 1st She-Hulk volume you'd totally see the difference.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Thats true

    by Joenathan

    They could have killed her and brought her back, but then, everyone here would have torn their vocal cords yelling: "STUNT! STUNT! MILLAR'S A HACK! STUNT!" So either way, I put forth that there are certain elements on this board that would not be pleased no matter what had been done.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Joenathan : Shulkie was never like Daredevil

    by V'Shael

    because She Hulk dealt with cases based in the "reality" of the Marvel Universe. Like villains suing heroes for excessive force. Or the Leader pleading gamma-poisoning induced insanity. And these sorts of cases were usually done tongue in cheek with shits and giggles. <p> Daredevil tends to be much more serious in tone and hard-core.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST

    I see the comedy/drama difference, BUT

    by Joenathan

    I'm saying maybe thats why PAD switched it up, feeling that perhaps being the "other lawyer" in the MArvel Universe wasn't allowing She-Hulk to shine and lets be honest, as awesome as Slott's She-Hulk was (which I've always heard that it was) it certainly wasn't selling like gang busters, which is why it was always on the verge of cancellation. So, PAD tried something different and failed. Maybe, much like Wonder Woman, She-Hulk just can't support her own comic and works better on a team book.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:52 a.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    Daredevil is awesome. People haven't been talking enough about that book lately.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Stunt? Hack? Death is just a plot device in comics

    by cookepuss

    Death in comics is designed to further along the story not end it. While I agree that death in comics has become hollow, when done right, death and a sufficiently plausible rebirth can be an awesome way to build new stories. Winter Soldier springs to mind. Some characters must forever stay dead. 616 Ben Parker should never be resurrected. Thomas & Martha Wayne should stay dead. Everybody else is fair game. It's not cheap deaths that worry me. It's cheaper resurrections. Why kill a character if you aren't going to make the rebirth and aftermath matter? THEN the death would be a cheap stunt of a hack writer.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST

    PAD didn't do something different

    by cookepuss

    He just resorted to tired storytelling. He resorted to a formula. Strip the book down to its basics and She-Hulk went from unique to cookie cutter. The characterization went from well thought out under Slott's direction to wholly phoned in and cliche under his. Most of what made She-Hulk She-Hulk has been swept under the rug. PAD's first arc made her nearly unrecognizable.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Thats my point,

    by Joenathan

    The "death of the Invisible Women" story was very obviously NOT going to be regular continuity Sue, because no one would care and it would lack any drama, because no one would believe it was permanent, much like no one believes Cap is actually dead (although they're certainly letting him hang out there for a while, an increasingly disturbinhgly long while...)<br><Br>but really, my point was not to lambaste Millar or his storytelling, but the folks who are standing ready to do so, regardless of the tale told and that the implication that they would have preferred to see the "real" Sue as the one dead was false... dirty, dirty Millar haters.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:07 a.m. CST

    I'm not saying PAD made a GOOD choice,

    by Joenathan

    just that it was obvious that he was charged with changing the book up, which would then, as a result, hopefully increase sales. Like I said: it failed.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Anyone read the latest Old Man Logan?

    by Joenathan

    speaking of Millar-y goodness... Bug, you should read it, if you're not, its fun in a classic Marvel What if kind of way. I think its one of the more exciting mainstream superhero stories going right now.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Lovin' Old Man Logan.

    by BangoSkank

    Great, fun stuff. Borrowed it to a friend who keeps bugging me about when the next ish is coming out. <p> I'm not a F4 guy, never have been, but am also enjoying the current run. It took a few issues to get rolling, but it's easily the longest run of F4 that's ever held my interest..... <p> I haven't received my shipment with X-Factor yet, but it's good to hear they have a new artist. I was ready to quit that bitch, but when I heard that there was going to be some changes, I was willing to give it a few more issues.... Hopefully they allow PD to do his thing, and not hobble him with another slew of forced crossovers. <p> I did drop the Avengers/Invaders crossover.... After five issues and a two month hiatus, I just didn't give a shit anymore. When I realized that the "bad guy" looked like it was going to be an army of robot decoys.... well that was enough for me.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:42 a.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    I too did not get why the Original Human Torch was suddenly so powerful. This last issue was a bit... silly.<br><br>I'm betting the LMDs are being driven by a remnant of Ultron's programming hiding within Shield's mainframe.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    Steve Rogers : Dead a "disturbingly long while" now

    by V'Shael

    Much as I think the Winter Soldier story line is rocking the world right now, am I correct in saying that we ALL know Steve will be back in time for the Captain America movie? <p> I mean, if Marvel resurrects the freaking black suit Spiderman just so kiddies who see the movie won't get confused by the comic....

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:44 a.m. CST

    rsanta74 wins best comic quip of the week.

    by Smerdyakov

    New Jersey indeed.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Deaths in comics are not the problem

    by Continentalop

    My problem with comics isn’t with death and resurrections in comics, but with cheap publicity stunts and bad writing. Yes, we all knew Sue Storm wasn’t going to die; in fact I am one of those guys who would have had a conniption if the regular, in continuity Invisible Woman had died for “real” (or as real as comics allow). But when you make it the name of the issue and promise some intense and deep moment, as if this is going to be one of the moments in comics where nothing is ever the same, and then pass this off, well it leaves you a little disillusioned and disappointed. You don’t have to kill her, but at least have something profound happen; or better yet, don’t make hyperbolic statements you never are going to deliver. <p> That is my problem with Mark Millar, he seems spend most of his energy trying to get our attention and then not delivering a payoff; his hype in always the best part of his work. He is like a barker to a strip club promising the lewdest, sexiest and hottest girls in the world, and when you finally do enter you find that the place is just a bikini bar. <p> Or the dancers have penises. <p>

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Cap movie

    by Joenathan

    I'd say his resurrection will be timed with the movie. And I'm not surprised that would either and I don't think its as marekting driven a ploy as the black suit (although the black suit just looks so good.) <br><Br>I AM surprised though at not only how long they've kept Cap down, but I'm honestly unsure where and how his inevitable resurrection will happen, which makes it somewhat exciting, at least.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST

    But personally I think this death thing is overused

    by Continentalop

    I just wish they would save it so it would have a bigger impact when it happens. I was just scanning through my old comics yesterday, and I noticed that in the Silver Age, and through a lot of the Bronze Age, very few characters just arbitrarily “died”. They always had a strong reason within the story for their death and rarely did those characters ever come back (or at least not for years if not decades). Death in the older comics was more permanent and much more profound. <p> There is of course exceptions to this, but even these cheaper deaths obeyed certain rules: villains would die of course, most often in a mysterious way so they could be provided some sort of story of their amazing survival (Hammerhead becoming a ghost from a nuclear bomb, anyone?); a hero would die only to return in the same or very next issue, often changed by the ordeal (Jean Grey becoming Phoenix for the first time); and of course, a character would appear to die and the world would morn him or her but we would all know that they had survived (“Oh my God, Mr. Stark! They just killed your body guard Iron Man!”),

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:16 a.m. CST

    Come on, Continentalop,

    by Joenathan

    You were really let down by the hyperbole?<br><br>dude...<br><br>The name of the comic was "the death of the Invisible women" thats it. And it happened. Millar didn't promise you anything beyond that. YOU were the one who added the bit about intense and deep moments. YOU bought into what was very obviously bombastic hype and I, for one, think you only did so, so that you could complain about being let down. Its either that or you're faulting a guy for not meeting YOUR expectations and thats just not fair.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:18 a.m. CST

    Golden age deaths

    by Joenathan

    sure, they used death less, but they also started the trend... they also had Sue Storm concerned about her new hair-do and her husband's reaction. Times change.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Dead Iron Man

    by Joenathan

    Remember at the end of the Iron wars, Tony filled his armor with blood packets and let it take off and the Army blew it up and everyone thought Iron Man was dead? <br><br>Filled with blood? That armor must exploded like a ketchup packet. Imagine the soldiers watching. "Wow... we just killed the fuck out of Iron Man... did you see that? That was like a blood filled water balloon... gross."

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Thanks Ambush Bug for the shout out ...

    by ian216a

    about the Alan Moore Signing - Youse a Gentleman. And to chime in on the Miller FF run - I had my reservations on the first arc too. The latest one pulled me back in though, started making a lot more sense. Same with the art, couldn't recognise it as Finch to begin with, but loving it now. Just look at how he draws The Things face in the last ish - most expressive rendition I've seen of Ben Grimm in a looong time.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:56 a.m. CST


    by Psynapse

    Why would we have to yell this at all when his body of works speaks it so eloquently already?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Oh Psynapse,

    by Joenathan

    I'm slowly, sadly shaking my head right now and then sighing...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:01 p.m. CST

    where to find

    by garcicr

    Where do you find those zombie books could they be at a bookstore or maybe comic book shop??

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:08 p.m. CST

    You're probably better off finding them on-line

    by Joenathan

    Or ordering direct from the publisher.<br><br>Here's a question about zombie stuff: How many people here like the intelligent zombie stuff and how many prefer the dumb zombie stuff?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:18 p.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    But personally thing death in comics in overused Actually my statements were meant in a broader sense of what I don’t like about comics. I was referring to the over use of death and publicity-gathering devices to sell a comic, instead of trusting the characters, writing and storyline. Sure, Marvel has always had bombastic titles and statements for their comics, especially in the Stan Lee days (“The World Will Never Be the Same!” or “Behold! The End of the World!”), but those were so obviously showmanship that you never felt robbed, plus strangely enough they never really promised something in the title that they couldn’t deliver. But nowadays, it seems like once a month in some comic they are promises of death and revelations that will forever change the character, only to read a story were some minor character dies or something happens that we know will be reversed by the next writing staff or conveniently ignored from now on. <p> I mean, you write a story called “The Death of the Invisible Woman” and then get away with it on a technicality because you killed an alternate version of the character. It doesn’t smack me as clever, but as weak and desperate. It would be as cheap as writing “The Death of Cyclops” but instead of Scott Summers it is the Cyclops who fought the Thing back in the 60’s, or “The Death of Peter Parker” and having some guy who happens to share the same name as him getting off-ed. Or to stretch this premise even farther, write a story called the “Rape of Wonder Woman” and then say “Well she had all of her memories stolen, so based on Webster’s Dictionary of rape being ‘to take something by force against someone’s will’, this is technically true.” These stories are the comic book version of the phone contract: legally correct but very misleading. <p> I will also admit I am probably being overly critically because Mark Millar wrote this. If this had been some relatively unknown writer I wouldn’t have made such a big deal. But Millar wrote this, and besides the fact I don’t really care for his work, he has only himself and his reputation to blame. He is associated with shocking moments and breaking comic book taboos, you can hardly blame people for having a preconceived notion or expectation that they are going to see something shocking. It is like a magician known for doing dangerous stunts telling everyone that his next trick is called the Dead Man’s Hand, and all it turns out to be is a mere card trick.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:19 p.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    Exclude the first sentence "But personally thing death in comics in overused" . Don't know where that came from.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:22 p.m. CST

    For anyone interested in zombies...

    by The_joker

    I'm launching a webcomic next month at The site is up but just a teaser, I'm still working on the first issue, it's obviously more on the silly side but hopefully I can tell a good story. Sorry for tooting my own horn, anyways. I haven't read Spider Man all year long, I miss it but can't bring myself to read the hip young and single Peter Parker again. If I wanted young Peter I would read Ultimate Spider Man.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Yes, they had her worry about her hair-do

    by Continentalop

    Nowadays comics have characters act much more realistically. Like have characters make deals with the devil even though he knows this can't be a good idea.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:25 p.m. CST

    NO mention of BATMAN R.I.P.?!! Hes gonna fuckin die!!!!

    by Mike_D


  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:27 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    BUT... don't you think Millar is TRYING to do the same thing as Stan the Man with the bombastic headlines? I mean, don't you think that was his intention?<br><br>AND it wasn't an alternate reality version, it was future Sue, it was her, but old. He said "the death of the Invisible woman" and that is what happened. The point of the title was to "trick" you in the same way they used to back in the day. To mislead is the reason it exists. Its supposed to tantalize and intrigue and drawn you in out of curiosity. "The World's greatest comic!" Thats how its always been. Fail or not, I think Millar's intent was to acknowledge the roots and to plow ahead.<br><br>As for Millar's rep, to me, its a good one. I trust his stuff. I chek it out, because to me, he usually delivers, so thats actually personal perception, not reputation and as such it is YOUR fault, not Millar's.<br><br>And Magician's always rely on grandiose names. Why? Because in the end, much like a omic book character's death, its all just a plain old card trick. Sometimes, you just have to relax, play along and let yourself have some fun.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:28 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    Ah... that was "deal A devil", not "deal with THE Devil"<br><Br>There's a difference...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:29 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    it totally made sense, given Peter's history.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Contintentalop I agree

    by The_joker

    That is why big crossovers make no sense to me, because you know their are going to be no major repercussions after the story is over. Case in point, does anyone really think that the DC universe will change dramatically after the events in Final Crisis? No. Just like in Civil War. I mean Spider Man is still out there swinging around un registered, but is anything being done about it no. It's ridiculous.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST

    "The Devil" "A devil"

    by Continentalop

    I guess that is like making a deal with Himmler instead of Hitler and saying I make a deal with A Nazi leader, not THE Nazi Leader.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    Marvel changed alot post-Civil War and its reflected in its current titles. I mean, we can do the list, but really, come on, the changes are easy to see.<br><Br>As for DC... well, they try, but I think they have deeper problems then staying an editorial course, at the moment...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:38 p.m. CST

    No its not

    by Joenathan

    THE Devil is a THE embodiment of Evil, the darkness opposite the light. It is a Cosmic essense, intrinsicly involved with the very fabric of reality. THE Devil existance is proff of GOD's existance. THE Devil is a big thing.<br><br>A Devil, in a world of Norse Gods and Greek Gods and Heroes of Legend and Myth and Space Aliens, is just a creature from another Dimension powered by magic, just like the guy in the cape down the street. A Devil is a wholly know-able quantity in the marvel universe. Something a her CAN run into and if need be, beat the hell out of.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:39 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    I totally butchered that last post

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:43 p.m. CST

    You may "know" there will be no big changes...

    by Joenathan

    but that doesn't mean it won't be a fun read. It doesn't make you the Amazing Kreskin to predict that Spider-man is going to survive, it makes you a wet blanket. Sometimes you have to forget the outside influences and just live in the story.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Yes, it is my fault

    by Continentalop

    Yes I should go into every movie or read every book or comic without any preconceptions or expectations, but it doesn’t work that way. I am only human and we are all built to have preconceived notions. It is built in to us by evolution as a time saving tool. When I said Millar has only himself to blame, I didn’t mean quite literally we should all wag our fingers at him, but instead he can’t be surprised when he writes something and we are all disappointed with because it doesn’t follow his earlier examples and expectations. If I went to see a boxer with a reputation for slugging it out, I couldn’t help but be disappointed if he took a conservative strategy and just jagged, stayed his distance and clinched throughout the fight.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:51 p.m. CST

    And Mephisto is more than just...

    by Continentalop

    ...A creature from another dimension powered by magic. He has said numerous times that he exists as long as evil exists in our world, and that he is evil incarnate. In fact, it has been hinted on many times he is the inspiration for mankind's idea of the Devil. <p> He might not be Satan himself, the enemy of God, but like I said earlier he is at least equal to one of the Nazi High Command standing next the Führer.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Death of Galactus

    by sean bean

    Ah, thanks alfiemoon/joenathan, that makes more sense. I'm pretty sure I've read Millar's whole run on FF but forgot those details. It will probably read better as a whole but I've been pretty underwhelmed by the issues as they've come out.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:01 p.m. CST

    My brain aint working today...

    by Continentalop

    "Jabbed" not "Jagged". Jesus, I need some coffee.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Ah Joenathan,

    by Psynapse

    "I'm slowly, sadly shaking my head right now and then sighing..."<p>Well quit looking in the mirror you doof!

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST

    But we weren't ALL disappointed

    by Joenathan

    Thats my point

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Its been hinted at,

    by Joenathan

    but its never been said... so maybe its a lie for reputation's sake. And like I said, when presented with a magical oppurtunity tos ave Aunt May, given his fragile mental state and history, it made perfect sense that someone like Peter MIGHT make a bad choice. <br><br>Also, MJ made the deal, technically...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    That Fantastic Four

    by Series7

    Ape variant cover is pretty sweet though.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:13 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    I think you were going for an insult, but instead, you just made no sense. Do better from now on, please.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:15 p.m. CST

    "I can think of a couple of big differences."

    by Joenathan

    What do you mean? do you mean: boobies? Is that what you're refering to? Green Boobies? Is that what you meant? It was green boobies, right?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:17 p.m. CST


    by RyanMcLelland

    Yeah he's Ichigo...but I didn't feel like calling him that because I just like Bleach better. So I call it such because...I like it? I'm lazy?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST

    By the way...

    by Continentalop

    If Marvel under Quesada is experiencing another Golden Age, what was it under Shooter in the late 70's & early 80's? Another Platinum age?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Dear Joenathan,

    by Psynapse

    The only person it didn't make sense to is you, apparently. I rest my case. (*_^)

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:30 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    yeah, sure, it can even a Golden Age as well, the names don't matter to me as much as the content does.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:31 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    Case Re-opened. You are speaking gibberish.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:42 p.m. CST


    by Psynapse

    You make the case on my behalf, like shooting fish in a barrel.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Oh and....

    by Psynapse

    You really need to take a comparative religion class. THE devil is Christianity and it's offshoots ONLY.<p>BONUS ROUND!<p>1. What is 'the' devil's true name?<p>2. What was his original sin?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:11 p.m. CST

    I was amazed at the STUPIDITY of Sue's Death.

    by cookylamoo

    She knows from her memories that shortly after a complete and satisfying victory that Doctor Doom is going to kill her. So why the fuck does she just stand there and let him do it? Why not cut out when you're ahead?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:14 p.m. CST

    I did enjoy seein Wolverine get his head punched off.

    by Smerdyakov

    So I guess Wolverine can't be destroyed now by ANYTHING. They should put him on HEROES.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    I fell asleep due to boredom. Please repeat.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:21 p.m. CST

    Maybe Sue's death

    by Joenathan

    is important to a future timeline?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    Heroes blows

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:51 p.m. CST


    by Psynapse

    If falling asleep has rendered you unable to read a previous post I can't say I'm surprised in the least.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 2:52 p.m. CST


    by Psynapse

    Heroes does indeed blow.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST

    ASM #578

    by steverodgers

    I haven't bought a Spider-Man comic for a long time, but I got this one on the strength of the cover alone and man was it ever good. I might be hooked. My only issue is that if Pete lives in Queens wouldn't he have has a monthly metro-card? Web-swinging or not, single rides are for tourists.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Then consider us in agreement,

    by Joenathan

    Hell should be completely frozen over right about.... now.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    His Metro card

    by Joenathan

    was part of the deal with Mephisto... a devil's got to get to the Cake Shop too, you know.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Batman RIP WTF

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    Just read the latest issue of "Batman", the finale of RIP - I still have no clue what any of that story was about!! Well, ok, I'm not that stupid, but I'm still very confused. I demand closure! Who is Mangrove Pierce? I think I need to read Morrison's whole run again or something.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Mangrove Pierce

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    A quick Google search tells me he was the actor in some movie that was mentioned in that story when the "Batman Club" or whatever they were called were having that party. I think.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST


    by steverodgers

    Always had a sweet tooth...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Black Lanturn Bruce

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    Hey, I just thought. Bruce Wayne should have died and then come back as a Black Lanturn! How cool would that be!!!! Who's with me??? No-one? Aw balls.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Mangrove Pierce

    by Continentalop

    Was a porn actor, right? I mean with a name like "Mangrove Pierce"...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Millar, FF, Old Man Logan, and Hackiness

    by gooseud

    So let's see, have we been hitting all the Millar touchstones? Alternate universe/timeline issues? Check. Villains win? Check. Sacred Cow Heroes getting offed? Check. Wow, I feel like I'm reading "Wanted" all over again!! How quaint! Is Logan going to stick his claws up my ass on the last page laughing at the money spent on the comic? And yet.....and yet....Old Man Logan is pretty bad ass (hangs head in shame) I hate myself for caring what happens next, given that it is so by-the-numbers Millar that I could practically write the plot myself. DAMN YOU MILLAR!! There was a big debate in the local comics shop over what exactly was done to Logan. 3 theories: raped the crap out of him (hence the overreaction to the impending gay joke), tortured him for years letting him heal til he broke, or he accidently killed a fellow hero in anger.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:53 p.m. CST


    by loodabagel

    I like their coverage of so much comic related stuff, but jesus fuck, it's like their entire staff and readership is 30, lives with their mom and has never had sex. Whatta bunch of nerds. It's like this stupid, meaningless "devil" bullshit on every article they do. And they suck the Iron Man movie's dick like it's the second coming of Christ. F-in A, man. Iron Man was all right. It was serviceable. It wasn't the best movie ever.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 3:59 p.m. CST

    I'm betting...

    by Joenathan

    Logan gave in to his berserker side and was so shocked by his savagery, he vowed never to fight again. Then I predict, you guys will piss and moan about how this wasn't a grand enough revelation for you and then damn Millar to Hell. THEN, I'll defend him and then someone will bring up BND and Mephisto and we'll get sidetracked by that until Psynapse and I get in a fight and then Bug will threaten to ban me again for disagreeing with him (wink). Ah... the weekly comic book TB...<br><br>What brought on the Newsaram rant?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:04 p.m. CST

    no mention of Fables 77?

    by v1cious

    that was probably the best issue in decades.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:07 p.m. CST

    I hate to brag

    by Continentalop

    But I don't live with my mom and I have had sex. Does that still qualify me as a nerd?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Can you name all three Robins?

    by Joenathan

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Question about the Invaders

    by Continentalop

    While I love the Invaders, I always wondered why they never had a Pacific Theatre counterpart. I mean the Asian side of the war was pretty bloody and important as well. <p> Hey, somebody at Marvel, I got an idea for you: come up with WWII team that fought the Japs under MacArthur and call them the Marauders (after Merrill's Marauders). I nominate The Defender & Rusty, the Fin and the Blazing Skull as members. Now the entire story of the war can be told. <p> Eh, maybe some things are better left untold.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Yep Joenathan

    by Continentalop

    Robin Hood, Robin Crusoe and Robin Givens. Plus Robin Leach if you are giving out bonus points.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST

    No, there are NO bonus points

    by Joenathan

    Denied!<br><br>I also would have accepted Robin Williams. Naa-Noo! Naa-Noo!

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:20 p.m. CST

    The real difference between THE Devil and A devil:

    by SleazyG.

    There's no such thing as A devil. I mean, other than when people say "oh, you little devil, you", when has anyone suggested lesser demons are devils? They haven't. Y'know why? Cuz they're DEMONS. There's THE DEVIL, and then there's DEMONS. I can't recall a single time in mythology or fiction (christian or otherwise) that anyone has referred to Hell being full of devils. Sure, there's a crapload o' demons running around from belief system to belief system, but there's just The Devil.<p> Ever notice how there was a comic book called THE DEMON, and it coulda been about just about any demon you wanted, but in this case happened to be about Etrigan? Good luck pulling that one with a comic book called THE DEVIL. Know why? Cuz there's only, y'know, ONE DEVIL. Call a book THE DEVIL, and everybody's gonna expect it's about THE DEVIL, not "a randomly selected dude we're calling The Devil, but he's really A devil." That devil dog won't hunt.<p> "I'M THE GODDAMNED DEVIL!"<p> Case closed.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    How about Robin Goodfellow

    by Continentalop

    Or Robin Wright Penn? or how about Cock Robin?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    There are many stories that refer to multiple Devils. Feel free to do the research.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    Just Robin Williams

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Millar's reputation has nothing to do with his comics, and you k

    by SleazyG.

    His reputation is his reputation, and it is based solely on his words and actions in public. His reputation is as a shameless huckster, lying on a regular basis to fans and professionals alike in a sickeningly desperate attempt to convince people he's relevant. This "Put me on Superman! I'm the only one who can do it right!" bullshit has been going on for, oh, A FUCKING DECADE now, and all of a sudden he convinced somebody in the mainstream press to report it to try and get heat off the studios. Why? Because all he cares about is shameless self-promotion of shitty product. If he spent half the time on his actual work he spends coming up with absolutely bullshit lies that make him look like an asshole to promote that work, we'd all be much better off.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Not gonna happen, Joenathan.

    by SleazyG.

    Feel free to post links and prove me wrong, but I don't need to prove myself innocent--you need to prove me guilty. Show me where, in well-known christian texts, there are references to multiple devils instead of referring to them as demons.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Thats your opinion

    by Joenathan

    of Millar's rep, not mine.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Who said Well known Christian?

    by Joenathan

    Not me. I said plenty of stories. the precedent is set. I know it, you know it. <br><Br>here's the number 1 reason Mephisto is not THE Devil. Because making him Satan proves the existance of a christian God, which is a sticky thing for a multi-national/ethnic/religious corporation in today's world, so therefore... A Devil.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:30 p.m. CST

    As for Millar's FF run...

    by SleazyG.

    ...I actually enjoyed the ULTIMATE FF launch he did with Bendis, because I can't stand their writing separately any more but felt that together they struck a pretty good balance. I also loved Warren Ellis' followup arcs. Then a bunch of whiny-ass fanboys complained Dr. Doom's legs didn't look like they did in 616 and the series slowly shit the bed more and more until it was all shit, no pillows.<p> On the other hand, I read the first two issues of Millar's current FF run and it sucked so hard, so bad, so quickly I decided to cut my losses and bail before it got any worse. I've read nothing anywhere from anyone that's even suggested I made the wrong choice.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:30 p.m. CST

    I don't know it...

    by SleazyG.

    ...and you've provided no contradictory evidence.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Of course they can't decree Mephisto's THE Devil.

    by SleazyG.

    But we all know he is. You name me a higher-ranked, more powerful, Hell-based demon in the 616 and I'll reconsider.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:33 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    THE Devil

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:35 p.m. CST

    That's my opinion of Millar

    by Laserhead

    exactly. Nice, Sleazy.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Batman R.I.P

    by Laserhead

    Uh... huh. So, no real resolution in sight... Was Dr. Hurt telling the truth? Does it even matter? Wouldn't some of the implications in the story deserve some exploration? ...But there won't be any, because it's over, and it looks like Morrison's not coming back to Batman after all.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Come on Sleazy

    by Joenathan

    You made your mind up about Millar A LONG TIME AGO. Nothing is going to change your mind now. Thats alright, I guess, as the man says: A critic without bias is akin to a general who fears loss of life. However, an obvious bias does skew the reliability of that opinion.<br><br>As for my lack of evidence, I simply return your attention to the fact that he is not THE Devil due to corporate concerns. Thats fact. Your dispution seems solely based off your recollection of some nebulous idea of ancient christian texts or something.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:38 p.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    personal opinion. Thank you, Laserhead

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Really? THE Devil?

    by SleazyG.

    I don't recall any Marvel stories where THE Devil shows up and interacts with people. Maybe it was in that shitty NEW WARRIORS series I didn't read this year.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST

    I'm glad the new warriors are dead.

    by Joenathan

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:50 p.m. CST

    You are both right...

    by Continentalop

    ...and wrong. There have been cases of Christian referring to multiple demonic beings as the Devil, and even acknowledging that each exist independently. The Unholy Triumvirate is one example, when Christian demonologist (such as Sebastian Micheals of the 17th century in his book Admirable History) claimed that three fallen angels ruled hell: Lucifer, Beelzebub and Leviathan (others had it as Lucifer, Beelzebub and Astaroth or Lucifer, Beelzebub and Azazel). But all three of these beings would be compatible in power and evilness with the classic Satan, and it would be appropriate to refer to each one of them as The Devil. <P> Which brings us back to Mephisto, whose name is a derivative of Mephistopheles. While Mephistopheles is sometimes as just a demon (but a powerful and clever one) who serves Satan in Hell, many times he Satan himself and the name is just an alias. His name, Mephistopheles is thought to mean “Not a lover of light” in parody of his original name Lucifer, or combination of the Hebrew words meaning liar and destroyer. Even if he wasn’t Satan, any deal you made with him would be just as damning and blasphemous. <p> No matter if Mephisto is Satan himself or a different demon, he is one of the same power level and the same disposition. Most Christian demonologist would recognize him as a powerful demon, one of the Dukes of hell and possible ranking him as one of the most powerful in the hierarchy of hell, possible only behind Satan (or maybe even equal with him). The Catholic church did not view any sort of devil or demon as being lesser than another in terms of evil, to them Asmodeus, Beelzebub, Astaroth, Baal, and all the others are considered infernal creatures, each one an epitome of evil.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Woooo Continentalop...

    by Joenathan

    very nice.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Why are you glad the New Warriors dead?

    by Continentalop

    I never liked the comic, but I never saw the appeal of killing off characters just because you don't like them. I guess I just don't see death as a cheap entertainment (not saying you do, just curious why you are glad they are dead).

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Nice try, Continentalop...

    by SleazyG.

    ...but then where does Little Nicky fall in? Cuz I don't really consider him all that infernal, really.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 5 p.m. CST

    Little Nicky was half Angel,

    by Joenathan

    so he was always the white sheep of the family and not often mentioned.<br><br>Contenentalop, some part of me has always hated Night Thrasher and his stupid, stupid skateboard. Now admittedly, the time his Vietnamese Nanny tried to destroy the World? That was awesome. But the fact that he had a skateboard? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Dead. Hooooray!

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 5 p.m. CST


    by gooseud

    I'll take "beserker rage" over "Millar patented Wolvie ass-rape" any day. In fact, I'll go on record: if it is berserker rage and not butt-sechs, I will officially not complain. And Ellis's Ult FF run was some of the biggest genius comics work seen in the past 5-10 years. Yes I said it.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 5 p.m. CST

    NEW WARRIORS are dead?

    by SleazyG.

    You mean they finally cancelled that Grevioux piece of shit that somehow lasted several issues longer than THE ORDER?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Ok the Skateboard was lame

    by Continentalop

    I never got why they didn't just have him take the Nighthawk mantle when he first appeared. I mean, he was already a Batman clone, take the name of another Batman clone who was thought dead at the time. <P> Still he didn't have to die - just recieve a massive makeover (and then probably forgotten afterwards).

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Plus the New Warriors name was pretty lame

    by Continentalop

    Jesus, the more I think about it the less I can use to defend against their deaths.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 6:34 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    bleach...good stuff...

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Morrison's a hack, Batman's "death" sucked

    by TallBoy66

    I expect realism from AICN comic reviews - if I see a pro Batman RIP final issue review like I saw on newsarama and CBR, then I'll be sorely disappointed.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:08 p.m. CST


    by Reelheed

    More like Batman: W.T.F. <p>Worst death ever.

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Superman New Krypton

    by Reelheed

    Erm. I'm actually enjoying this story at the mo. The whole thing looks to be headed straight for Superpeople vs. Superpeople civil war (or is that a civil crisis or even an infinite war?)

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Also more proof of Morrison being a hack

    by TallBoy66

    See - New X-Men. Batman RIP + New X-Men = fucker's an overrated hack

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 10:49 p.m. CST

    i didnt read Morrisson's Batman

    by the milf lover

    but I looked up some reviews to know what the fuss is about, and lemme get this straight:<p> Not only did they ripoff Kraven's Last Hunt with the buried alive part, but then Batman falls to his death fighting a mystery bad guy that turns out to be Satan????<p> yeah, sounds like a hack job to me... is this really the same Grant Morrisson who wrote the great All-Star Superman?

  • Nov. 26, 2008, 11:22 p.m. CST

    garcicr: Zombie Chapbooks

    by CreepingHemlockPress

    Thanks for asking. The books are available only through us ( <br><br>They're limited to 250 signed copies each, and given the printing costs, it's not possible for us to give dealers the standard 40% discount. <br><br> They're $5 and $6 each, and nicely produced-- with free domestic shipping! Thanks again-- and thanks for the great reviews!

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 6:34 a.m. CST

    That's NOT what happened in Batman

    by Laserhead

    The mystery villain is definitely not Satan. Not that we actually learn who he is, but it's not Satan. No, Batman didn't fall to his death. Batman's final fate will be revealed in Final Crisis #6, when he becomes some kind of New God or something. However, as the last piece that a reader was hoping would wrap up all the threads Morrison had planted, R.I.P.'s conclusion couldn't have been more unsatisfying. The worst thing about this is that, with the movie's success, we should be positioned for someone to come in and do a defining Batman series for a new generation; something that finally and forever rids us of Miller's version, which we've been suffering through for two decades. But, as a big Morrison fan, I have to say, he was not the guy. And now, Christ, we're going to have Dick Grayson and Damien as Batman and Robin; Tim Drake as Nightwing, etc.<p>You know what we all really, really need? DAN SLOTT'S BATMAN. There.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 6:36 a.m. CST

    And Morrison's the opposite of a hack

    by Laserhead

    even when not at his best. Hack is a word that should be reserved for Austen, Winick, Loeb and, increasingly, Millar.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 6:45 a.m. CST

    Just checked out the Wiki page for R.I.P.

    by Laserhead

    It's wrong; Dr. Hurt says he's NOT Mangrove Pierce, that he killed and skinned Mangrove Pierce in the "Club of Heroes" storyline... He continues to insist that he's Thomas Wayne. And then he blows up.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 8:17 a.m. CST

    I Don't Care Who Spidey Made A Deal With

    by Buzz Maverik

    Somebody made a deal with Badstorytellingophelus or Stupidibub.<p> "Here's our hero. He's the common schlub with problems just like them. We've limited our character development potential by having him be married. What can we do?"<p>"Hey, Joe, since over half the marriages end in divorce and all of our readers have some experience with divorce, why don't we explore some real character issues with Peter and Mary Jane by having them realistically split up? Talk about taking a toll on Spidey--"<p>"Who let this idiot in here? I've got it! Aunt May dies, like, you know, everybody does, and Peter and Mary Jane make a pact with Lameocus."<p>"Yer brilliant, Joe."<p>"Now, the only problem is, the fans will be split on whether this is a bad idea or the bad idea."<p>"Fans? Those guys don't care. They haves to have their funny books and where else are they gonna get 'em?"

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 1:54 p.m. CST

    You sound bitter, Buzz

    by Joenathan

    Perhaps if this is causing you soooo much pain, you should walk away from comics for awhile. Especially if you have such a hard time grasping the core of Spidey's powers. Look, just repeat after me: "Everything can be reset. It can all be changed and put back. No comic book story is forever." Just calm down before your head explodes. <br><br>Also, Morrison, even at his craziest, is always one of the best.<br><br>And so is Millar... heh...

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Not spidey's "powers"

    by Joenathan

    Sorry, I meant: Spidey's "character"

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Joenathan is a kiddie rapist and I can prove it

    by Continentalop

    No, not really. Just doing the big hyperbolic blurbs that fail to deliver what I promised just like they do in comics so you'll read this post. <p> Although their could be a kiddie rapist out there named Joenathan, so I could be technically right. See how misleading some of these comic blurbs are? <p> Anyways, Happy Thanksgiving Joenathan. I'll argue with some more about BND later.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 3:27 p.m. CST


    by Psynapse

    Continentalop, thank you sincerely for my Thanksgiving guffaw. Nicely done friend. I have to say reading a post wherein Joenathan actually presumes to attempt patronization of Buzz of all people gave me a chuckle as well.<p>Joenathan do you work for Newsarama? That would explain a lot.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST

    thanks for the Batman R.I.P. insight

    by the milf lover

    I read the R.I.P. wiki, and it's actually worse than I thought. It says that Bruce "as a defense against psychological attack, created a "backup" personality, a "Batman without Bruce," the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh"???? WHAAAAAAAAT??? THE FUUUUUCK?????? Is this shit for real?? <p> seeing this grabage, I'm now thinking that All-Star Batman and Robin isnt so bad after all...

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 5:39 p.m. CST

    hey at least I didnt waste money on that shit

    by the milf lover

    If said reviews and wiki had made it sound like an exciting, interesting story, then I might actually want to buy and read the damn thing. <p> Not that I care what some stupid troll thinks.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Um, excuse me..

    by Psynapse

    Anyone using the nick "J.J. Binks" probably shouldn't be throwing around words like stupid and clueless in discussion of a pop culture product by any means lest they self-implicate one would think.

  • Nov. 27, 2008, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Sogbird is a boring character and Osborne/Bullsere are exciting

    by chien_sale

    So the writer has his priorities screwed up. Maybe he would like for Thunderbolts to be a boring book?

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 12:02 a.m. CST

    Should It Really

    by optimous_douche

    Take a wiki to help one muddle through the storyline of a book they just read?<p> There is such a thing as being too ponderous, and from the TBs alone I can tell I need to keep trusting my instincts and ignore RIP.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 2:08 a.m. CST

    I Think Millar Is Great, Don't Get The Hate

    by LaserPants

    Civil War crapped out, but I've really liked pretty much everything else he's done. OLD MAN LOGAN being the best thus far. Its the first time I've given a shit about Wolverine since the 80s. I think Millar is great. He and Brubaker are the two best writers Marvel has. Bendis is mostly suck with some good. And Quesadilla is just fucking terrible.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 8:57 a.m. CST

    Oh I don't 'hate' Millar per se...

    by Psynapse

    To hate you have to genuinely care about something and honestly, the body of work I've read of his thus far has been so very lather, rinse and repeat in his plots that I'm bored by it more than anything else. Something supposed to be entertainment that bores me gets nothing but disdain and always will.<p>REALITY CHECK: This is known as 'having one's own opinion', get a lawyer and try suing me if it gets you that hot and bothered.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 9:46 a.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    I, too, merely stated and opinion. You should, perhaps, try to follow your own advice?

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 10:34 a.m. CST

    Comic Fans Don't Have To = Sheep, Joe

    by Buzz Maverik

    Repeat after me: "Comic book companies are not my friends. I don't have to swallow whatever they're selling. I am an intelligent being. I am capable to discernment. I know good art and storytelling from bad and am not afraid to say it because even if I do, comic books will not go away. They will still let me buy their products. I will now stand upright even though I am a fan."

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 10:38 a.m. CST

    And Millar Can Be Great.

    by Buzz Maverik

    He can also suck. Let's use a political analogy. He's the John McCain of comics. Not a maverick, but a faux-maverik. He knows his demographic and he sets out to please them and his bosses. With Morrison and Bendis, well, they're even better because you get the feeling that they're doing what they do and they wouldn't change regardless. Or irregardless.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Will Somebody Please Explain To Joe...

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...that I'm not really known for going away when somebody tells me. Sorry I make you uncomfortable, Joe (ten seconds before he posts swearing that I don't). I say, there's room enough for everybody and personally, I like to read opinions that differ from my own but I'm funny that way.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    Capable OF Discernment.

    by Buzz Maverik

    OF not TO. Stupid lack of edit feature.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Yes, I HATE Millar...

    by Continentalop

    …Or to be more specific, his work. While I can’t say I don’t like him as a person, and in fact he might be charming and fun to hang out with (just like Uwe Boll might), but I doubt that if his writing says anything about his personality. I find it juvenile, sophomoric, offensive and very annoying. In short, I can’t stand his sensibilities. <p> I can’t stand his glib handling of pain and death, his treatment that every character is an asshole or a jerk. I can’t stand his stories where no characters have any moral outlook, where a protagonist rapes and murders and never regrets it, and that all that matters is that you are cool or witty. I can’t stand the fact that he seems to enjoy killing people in his comics, as if it was some big joke. It reminds me of a quote by Raymond Chandler, It is not funny that a man should be killed, but it is sometimes funny that he should be killed for so little…” Millar seems to find it funny that a man should be killed. <p> I can’t stand how he has disdain for the idea of a hero. Heroes in his world seem to be someone who hits a man on the ground or tortures someone or kills an unarmed opponent trying to surrender. It is like Millar can’t believe there could ever be anyone out there who does good deeds for altruistic reasons, that they must be fucked up or assholes. I think this says a lot about Millar and about his fans. I mean, what kind of people go through life thinking that the ones who save us are doing it for ulterior motives, or for personal gain, or because they are sadist who love beating people up. I once told a friend I don’t really like watching 24 because it seems to be saying to be a hero you HAVE to be an asshole; well Millar and his fans seem to say heroes ARE assholes. <p> Some of you would say that it this is my personal viewpoint and that not necessarily Millar’s. Yes, you are half right. It is my personal viewpoint, but that is the only way we judge art is by making decisions based on are own personal perceptions and experiences. You can only take out of art what you take in. I mean, I wish I could read every comic or see every movie as a tabula rosa, but unfortunately I can’t, I have to bring with me some of the baggage of past things I have read or seen, or my own life experiences and beliefs. And my personal reaction to Millar’s writing is that I don’t like it. <p> And for the idea that Millar doesn’t really believe this stuff, I leave you with a quote by Kurt Vonnegut, which was one of his major themes through much of his work, “You are who you pretend to be.”

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Newsarama is the Enquirer of comics.

    by mrfan

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    anybody read the Body Bags One Shot

    by the milf lover

    that just came out by Jason Pearson? Awesome, fun book, full of swearing and ultraviolence, with a very nice satire of a current 'cultish' trend. Best thing I've read in a while. I just wish Pearson came out with these a little more frequently, 12 years is a daaaamn long time.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 5:20 p.m. CST

    So Anyone Who Likes Millar Is A Vicious Sociopath?

    by LaserPants

    Really? Methinks you maybe take this stuff WAY too seriously and read WAY too much into it. There is a clear dividing line between entertainment and the self. Some people here haven't quite figured that out yet. By Continentalop's logic, anyone who likes anything that features any kind of similar themes is actually a mirror of those themes? So if you liked A Clockwork Orange you are exactly the same as Alex? Really? Like you aren't able to separate the text from the person who reads and enjoys the text? Sheesh. Bit of a scold, huh? Puritanical much? <br><br> From my point of view, theres room for all kinds of comix stories, from the more traditional, moral heroic stories to the stories of unrepentant sadism. Further, that it is possible to enjoy both on their own merits for different reasons, and not take on any aspect of those stories as part of ones personality. People who aren't able to discern between the two are commonly referred to as schizophrenics.<br><br>Btw, ones choices of entertainment are not the same as the self. Its a curious phenomenon in much of geekdom that many people aren't able to make that distinction. Which lends support to my theory that the phenomenon of geekdom points to a kind of mass schizophrenia -- that many people have been so distanced from their own lives through and endless media barrage since birth, that they literally do not know the difference between the stuff they own and who they are. Its sad, but I see infinite examples of this theory baring out on these boards every time I visit.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 5:48 p.m. CST

    My view on Millar can be summed up......

    by gooseud

    very easily and succinctly: If Old Man Logan was the first story of his I had ever read, I would think he was the next coming of God. Unfortunately, it isn't. Or is it? Might as well be, given the carbon copy nature of most of his most popular work. So to sum up, in an alternate universe where Wanted doesnt exist, Old Man Logan is an all time great arc.

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Laserpants & JJ Binks....

    by Psynapse

    Laserpants: Not even remotely directed anywhere near you Bud but rather a certain someone who equates disagreeing with his own opinions with downs syndrome apparently. I'm always good to agree to disagree myself.<p>JJ Binks: Uh yeah, nice try there but still so far from the mark. What I care about is the entertainment medium of comics which HAS been a lifelong pleasure of mine. Said caring allows me to freely fling disdain at any Book, Writer, Artist, Editor, or Company that I choose and for whatever reasons I may have at any given time. As can any of you. :)

  • Nov. 28, 2008, 6:40 p.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    I actually do regret saying “Millar and his fans”. I should have wrote, “Millar and SOME of his fans”. If you have read any of my earlier post on this or other TB’s, I do not like to label people with blanket terms or broad accusations. I am a firm believer that their can be two opposing viewpoints that are of equal merit. But for the sake of argument, let us take the position that I meant what I wrote. <p> You brought up Clockwork Orange, which is a good example. I don’t think you are like Alex if you like that movie; however, I would be concerned about you if the only reason you liked that film is because of the rape and “ultra-violence”, and that is all you cared about. And let’s be honest, there are people out there like that – I have been to many screenings of the film where some douchebag is sitting there cackling and laughing when Alex and his droops rapes a women thinking it is the funniest thing since the Three Stooges, but try sitting next to a rape victim and tell her how funny it is (and I know some TB will probably use this as an excuse to crack some joke, proving the point about how sensitive and compassionate geeks really are). <p> Clockwork Orange is more than just an exploitation flick for people to get their jollies off; it is a treaty of violence and human nature. Sure it is shocking, entertaining, and strangely seductive, but in the end the film is about how these horrible things we do are just as much part of us being human as anything else, and if we believe in free will we have to accept that. It is the fact that it is trying to say something that separates the Clockwork Oranges of the world from the I Spit On Your Graves. <p> Plus if message and content is so unimportant to a movie or comic or any art form, then why do we worry about the racist propaganda in Birth of a Nation or Triumph of the Will? I am sure ALL the people who saw those did so to admire the skill and technique that goes into it and didn’t even notice the racist message they advocated. Yes people do watch those films for purely aesthetic reasons, but I doubt those people would claim themselves fans as much as admirers of the techniques used in them; you can like the skill involved in making them without actually liking the film or what it is saying (and no, I am not comparing Millar fans to racist, I am only doing an extreme example to demonstrate my argument). <p> I expect art at times to be shocking and pushing the boundaries, and sometimes offend my sensibilities. I also expect it to have something to say and be about something. Those works of art that I find that seem to only exist to provoke and offend only to attract attention or push an agenda I disagree with, I will point out and criticize. I am not going to sit through the Turkish movie “The Valley of the Wolf”, biting my tongue saying, “Who cares that they show American soldiers harvesting organs for a Jewish doctor; it is only a movie”, I am going to challenge those that like it by pointing out that viewpoint or opinion is wrong. Maybe those who like that movie are not anti-Semitic, but it would be hard for me not to assume that or expect anyone watching that film have their opinion swayed in a negative way. <p> And once again, this is MY personal viewpoint and opinion, what I consider good. And what I consider good might not be the same as yours, and I might have some things on my list that you find hypocritical (I love Battle Royal, and that is pretty violent), but to me those films still work within my personal belief system and moral code. Just because I criticized violence doesn’t mean I am ant-violence, I am just anti-bad or pointless violence. <p> I also understand that people will have a different viewpoint or opinion based on their viewpoint and life experience, and while I might not agree with them I respect it (unless I figure it to be so odious and disgusting that there is no way I can ignore it). I also dislike the film Monster and think it is a bad, radical feminist apology for Aileen Wournos on why she killed all those men, but I can understand why Charlize Theron was drawn to the script based on her life experiences. I could never believe the film’s rationalization of why she killed those men, as if it was somehow justified by her being victimized once; Charlize Theron could very well believe this, since her mom killed her father in self-defense. I could understand how she came to that opinion that the film was accurate, but I would still argue with her that she was wrong despite her reasons why until one of us changed our opinion or we both agreed to disagree. I would do that with anyone here, because that is what we do here; we debate, criticize and compare notes on each other’s opinions about a comic, films and other art forms. <p> Obviously Millar is not nearly as far out as some of these examples, otherwise I really doubt there would be these arguments concerning him. But Millar is definitely in the grey area, where there is much room for us to debate if what he says has merit or if he is just all sound, no fury. As I said earlier, I was listing why I don’t like him and why I think he is a bad comic book writer. If you want, next time I will list specific examples from some of hi work, but right now I am going to take a break,

  • Nov. 29, 2008, 8:13 a.m. CST


    by blackthought

    who the fug is mark millar? and what does he have to do with the devil?

  • Nov. 29, 2008, 8:36 a.m. CST


    by Bluejack

    If Batman is Dick and Damien as Batman and Robin, and Tim Drake as Nightwing, then I will sign on. Sounds interesting. I used to collect robin and Nightwing because there were too many Batman titles to keep up with and I could still enjoy some of the "Bat" universe. Dick as Batman will bring some fun back into the character which, as someone posted earlier, is dominated by Miller's vision of the character.

  • Nov. 29, 2008, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Batman RIP **Spoiler**

    by Redmantle

    When Dick Grayson finds the batcowl, and holds it, while standing dramatically, the cape fluttering behind him as if he is wearing it.. i think says everything as to who will take up the bat-mantle

  • Nov. 29, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Wait a minute! What is this Batman shit?!?!

    by L.H.Puttgrass <p> Mind the spaces. <p> After a smash hit like TDK, why would you chance possibly killing the renewed interest in Bruce Wayne by actually killing him?!? What the fuck DC?! <p> The one character that people want to see after all the amazing PR from TDK! And you kill him... nice one. <p> Don't forget your Kewpie-Doll.

  • Dec. 1, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST


    by Joenathan

    An exciting talkback, too bad I missed it. <br><br>Contentalop... you'll get yours, sir...<br><br>Laserpants, I heart you and your levelheadness.<br><br>Buzz, I forget what we were argueing about after reading all this and I'm too lazy to go look again. So I'm going to fall back on: Neoner, neiner.<br><br>Psynapse, I still sadly shake my head at you.<br><br>Old Man Logan IS awesome, seriously... y'all should take a gander at it.

  • Dec. 1, 2008, 10:53 p.m. CST

    That Was A Very Cool Response, Joe!

    by Buzz Maverik

    Seriously! I can dig it. I've used similar myself a time or two!