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Moriarty Reviews Gus Van Sant’s MILK And Marvels At The Power Of Sean Penn’s Smile!!
Hey, everyone. “Moriarty” here.
I got an e-mail last weekend from the great Matt Dentler, formerly of South By Southwest, about how you can now see THE TIMES OF HARVEY MILK online:
“Friends,
I wanted to let you know that Cinetic is thrilled to present the digital/VOD premiere of Rob Epstein's Oscar-winning documentary, THE TIMES OF HARVEY MILK, on Amazon VOD.
It is available for digital purchase or rental here.
It will also be available on iTunes in a couple days.
All my best,
Matt”
I bring it up because I think anyone who is interested in really understanding Harvey Milk and the importance of who he was and what he did in California should start with that documentary, which remains one of the best examples of the form that I can think of. Seriously. You should go check out that documentary if you’ve never seen it because it’s an amazing film that does a great job of telling an amazing story.
If you want to understand what it is that Harvey Milk meant to both gay Americans and what sort of legacy he’s left behind, then I’d say Gus Van Sant’s warm, big-hearted MILK is a good place to start, since it’s not so much a typical biopic as it is a reaction to a man’s life and a reflection of just what it was that these filmmakers saw in him. I don’t think MILK transcends its genre, but I do think it’s a great example of why Hollywood is continually drawn to the biopic as a showcase for actors and as a vehicle for social messages. By telling the story of this one person, Van Sant has managed to encapsulate an entire moment, a time and place, and he’s also made a film that speaks directly to how we’re living right now.
As soon as a group of us walked out of the screening of a film a few weeks back, still pre-election day, the conversation immediately turned to the use of this film as a political tool in the battle over Proposition 8 here in California, and several reviewers felt that the film should have been hurried into theaters so that the film could have been part of the dialogue about that potential legislature. Personally, I think the film would have been lost in the furor, and what the film has to say is larger than any one election cycle. Harvey Milk was the first openly gay politician elected to a major office in the United States, and what I liked most about Van Sant’s film is that it doesn’t position Harvey as a saint, but rather as a fairly shrewd operator who played the system very, very well, and whose sexuality may have helped motivate him, but it was hardly the only thing that defined him. Reducing the film to a simple “No on Prop 8” commercial reduces Harvey himself, and he deserves better.
Van Sant wisely deals with the notion of male-on-male physical affection within the first ten minutes of the movie, when Harvey (Sean Penn), celebrating his 40th birthday, first encounters Scott Smith (James Franco). It sets a tone of intimacy and explicitness that it continues to assert throughout, which is good. The film can't be called soft in terms of showing the intimate side of these relationships. It’s a quick pick-up that leads to a lasting relationship, and when the two of them start a business together, Castro Camera, it lays the groundwork for Harvey’s gradual political awakening. He sees the way the community greets him, the way his customers are treated in other stores, and, very simply, he gets angry. He’s tired of it. He’s looking for a place he can call home, and this place, this neighborhood, he sees potential in it, and he realizes that everyone’s talking about these same things, and all it’s going to take is one person who says them out loud. And Harvey steps up. His anger turns to action, and that’s the message of Harvey Milk’s life. His death, which is also dealt with in explicit manner in this film, is certainly noteworthy, but it does not define him. What defines him is the aftermath of his passing, the number of people he awoke with his presence, the number of activists who were part of Harvey’s campaigns who have gone on to any number of significant lives. These people were touched by this time where they all came together politically and realized that they had power. They had a voice. They had representation, and isn’t that a basic thing to expect in this world? A voice in things?
Look, Van Sant’s a complicated filmmaker, but he’s a studio shark. He knows what he’s doing when he makes a film with a studio, and he knows how to do it for a cost they like. He can be political if he has to. This is a fact. All you have to do is look at the existence of his PSYCHO remake, which is absolutely Dali-smearing-shit-angels-crazy, to know that he is a smooth operator on the studio level. GOOD WILL HUNTING. FINDING FORRESTER. These are movies that make sense to a studio, and Van Sant can obviously deliver movie star movies. I really love the way he experiments from film to film, trying things out, honing a style, then abandoning it completely. He’s nimble. And MILK feels like a studio movie, slick and classically styled. There’s nothing experimental about the staging of the film or the shooting of it, and that’s fine. The emphasis here is on performance, and that’s where Van Sant really pays off as a choice. Say what you will about his movies, but he is great with actors. When I saw DRUGSTORE COWBOY, those performances were captured in such a personal, raw way that I felt like this guy was sort of in love with all of his cast, intensely. That depth of feeling is true of MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO, MALA NOCHE, TO DIE FOR, PARANOID PARK. And here, he’s making this movie like he’s making a wish that he could live on Castro Street right in the middle of this, that he could be right there at Harvey’s elbow. That’s what the film does... it puts us right there with Harvey. We’re not asked to feel what he feels... he’s just one character in this sort of tapestry, with Franco and Emile Hirsch and Diego Luna and Victor Garber all doing strong supporting work, with familiar faces like Lucas Grabeel (familiar to anyone who has ever even seen the cover of a HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL film at the grocery store), Joseph Cross, Alison Pill, Denis O’Hare, Stephen Spinella, and JJ Abrams fave Kelvin Yu. Penn’s the center, the burning star that everything else orbits around.
And, goddamn, does that rub Dan White (Josh Brolin) the wrong way. Brolin continues his streak of strong performances with one of the best things he’s ever done. He plays Dan White as a clenched fist, a man who looks at Harvey and sees someone who has made every choice opposite from him, and it’s paying off. Wouldn’t that make you a little sick? If every single day, you worked face to face with someone who personified every value you rejected... and he was monstrously crazy successful?
The snapshot of big city politics in California in the ‘70s, and the way it lays out the Anita Bryant campaign and the way the battle over Proposition 6 becomes a flashpoint for the exercise of whatever political power Milk has built up by that point. He draws a line in the sand and says, “This is worth fighting over,” and what happens is a matter of public record. It was 30 years ago. And it was a more rational and human choice that was made then than was made in the same state earlier this month. California sent a message 30 years ago that was important, and then absolutely dropped the fucking ball this year. It’s impossible not to think about it as you sit through the film or think about the film if you live in California. I don’t think the rest of the country is necessarily feeling any ripples from what happened here, and certainly the rest of the world isn’t. To them, what they’ll see is Harvey Milk’s legacy of hope and action and promise and possibility. And Sean Penn turns out to be such an inspired choice for this role that I’m sort of shocked. I’ve written at length about my admiration for Penn and his work over the years. I was a fan from the start, from BAD BOYS and FAST TIMES, and watching him smile his way through so much of MILK, watching him really work a room, I was struck by how rare that is, and how much it transforms him. Harvey’s a guy who shares himself with everyone, and the toll that sort of personality takes on the relationships in his life is definitely part of the movie. But that’s also what made him so effective. That open quality. It’s Sean Penn’s secret weapon, since he’s almost always closely guarded. He’s played so many characters who are so dark, so imploded and tight, that this almost feels like it’s a different guy. Inspired. I mean that in every sense of the word. Technically, the film’s a knockout. Harris Savides is one of my favorite guys working. ZODIAC. BIRTH. ELEPHANT. THE GAME. Beautiful stuff. And for the first time in a long time, Danny Elfman’s score surprised me. This is one of those films that’s taken forever to make its way to the screen, that I’ve been hearing about almost as long as I’ve been in Los Angeles now, which is a loooooooooong time. I think this is about as good a fictional recreation of Harvey Milk as anyone could ask for. I think it will lead people to take a look at who he was, and at what he did and said and believed, and that can only be a good thing. Bill Groom’s production design never oversells the ‘70s thing, but it has a real authenticity. I visited my aunt in San Francisco during this time, and this is what I remember. Exactly.
And, look, this is personal for me, as I suspect it is for pretty much everybody to some degree. Like Harvey Milk says, you can’t look at your own family and not be affected by the issue of gay rights. When I was in my early teens, a family member was revealed as gay to me. The adults in the family knew, obviously, but I was just starting to notice things and pick up on things enough that it was explained to me. And... that was that. That’s how much my life changed or the fabric of reality changed. It was just something that was true about someone who we all loved, some detail of their life. I think the way my family handled it was pretty amazing in hindsight, because it was just normal. Nothing was a secret or a controversy. And it set a standard for me that has, hopefully, continued throughout my life, an acceptance of others that was simply part of the core values I was taught. Much of what Milk talks about in this film is how important it is for people to be honest about who they are, and not be closeted from their loved ones. The difference it makes, on both a micro and a macro level, is astonishing. That’s definitely important to remember as Prop. 8 remains a political football in the months ahead, but also beyond that, as that same fight plays out nationally, as the echoes of Harvey Milk’s anger turned to action continue to play out until they are no longer needed.
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
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you pricks
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You're fast, man.
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is a really fantastic film.
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but you're ancient and slow you fossil
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It is.
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I am.
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how many we black boxes can go with
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losing out
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tastes like Big Red
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it is clown blood
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do a sequel to FAST TIMES with an aging Spicoli
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stunned them all into silence
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That's intimidating.
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... it's full of stars. If we stack enough black boxes, it'll be like a monolith at the top of the talkback.
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you should have written the whole film review as a metaphor to the joys of ass to mouth
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Bomb, please return to the bomb bay doors
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it's all as much fun as putting a finger in your ass as you take a shit
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BlindAmbition238, cuz I can
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... I made a Kubrick joke. Harry put his finger in his butt and pooped. You, sir, are a barbarian!
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Harry deleted some poor dude!
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... another review to write. And I'm not sure if I go "best film of the year" or "silliest addictive video game guilty pleasure of the year". Which one's first...?
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Yeah, I retorted with a Kubrick bit and raised you a John Carpenter
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to join in
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you're gone too
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should actually discuss this movie
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... the way I always am when locked alone in a room with Harry. He's got that look in his eye like he thinks I'm a cheeseburger or a rare collectible KING KONG lunchbox. Someone talk, damn you!
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Did someone say my name?
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... but it's Harry and he's in one of "those" moods. Back away. Slooooooowwwwww.
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I'm late to the party and we're segregated now! Fuck-damn!
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I got your talkback too, bitch
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muahahahahaha
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... is throwing out all the whites. Every conservative's worst nightmare come true.
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We scared all the whites away with our loud gangster rap.
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watching Heath Ledger's JOKER on Blu-Ray tonight
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and the whites are out
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the racist... to point that out
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where everyone knew Drew was a racist
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shut the fuck up, parents are talking
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... you are insane! I'm going to respond as if you are a grizzly bear by falling down on the ground and pretending to be dead until you return this talkback to the talkbackers, you madman!
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FROST/NIXON?
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Milk is excellent. I imagine the liberal elite in Hollywood that Fox News keeps talking about will give this one the extra push come awards time as a sort of political statement in reaction to Prop 8, but at least this time it's a good movie dealing with intolerance, not a predictable on-the-nose ball of mediocrity (I'm looking at you Crash)...
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... I believe Prop 8 will not withstand a trip to California's Supreme Court. I think all this has done is mobilize the gay community in an organic way, rather than being told to mobilize by a movie. I think now people may actually be more receptive to what the film's about and more attuned to it.
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after Prop 8's defeat - to give people the pep talk to rebuild the coalitions necessary to fight intolerance
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... I'm not telling. I'm just writing.
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Talking to himself yet again.
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who the fuck you talking to?
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answering questions that nobody has asked.
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You're nuts!
Or, if you'd like, your nuts! -
this is parent's talkback go away
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I have believed from the moment Prop 8 failed that Gus Van Sant was responsible and it was all a brilliant marketing strategy. I'm writing a book on the conspiracy now... Oliver Stone has preemptively bought the movie rights... I'm thinking Sean Penn as Gus Van Sant and Nic Cage as Sean Penn as Harvey Milk...
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... the absinthe will knock him out soon, and people will be able to post talkbacks again.
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can't see his posts disappearing... fucking get a cornea transplant and see ghosts of your posts
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... I'm with you on that. DEAD MAN WALKING is so much more than MYSTIC RIVER, in every way. As a performance, as a film. Time will be kind to one of those movies.
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right boys?
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proud - cuz with Quint, Drew and I - this is pretty... you know Golly Am Yep
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seriously
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on the holiday shopping guide and then I heard the conch trumpet and had to run back here to see what the emergency is. What's going on?
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I'm just fascinated by Brolin these days
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seriously
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is Piggy in trouble?
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We fat geeks behind AICN prefer much better junkfood than Twinkies
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sugar free things, but in very intense moderation
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My favorite thing is a commissionable art piece from a brilliant movie geek artist. But there's lots of cool stuff. James Bond villain watches, Batman stuff, Indy Stuff, watch with real moon dust in it, etc.
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whatever the fuck that means you cryptic motherfucker
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And a 1/6th scale Joker figure that is fucking scary-accurate to Heath's appearance and badass. I love it.
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on the list for my Birthday
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Conch, Piggy... Lord of the Flies, fool!
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been assigned at school or been written by Stephen King?
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That one thing on that list will be presented to you by me at BNAT. I will say no more on that.
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Yeah, so?
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CHOKE official anal beads?
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promo items I've ever received
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I'm saving those for the New Year's party... no better way to ring in the new year... plop-plop-plop-sigh
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that's BATMAN ANTI-SHARK REPELLANT amateur
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what are we doing this year - that party at my place was too crazy
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dude you don't want us there - we have this one friend Monki... he had 40 sparklers and a fifth of Captain Morgan in him... your house could burn
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Party at Moriarty's house...
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If you're married, then Monki will make sure to announce to the room that he wants to make out with your wife while standing 3 feet from you. There's a reason why you don't give simians hard liquor...
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will get my attention
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that is peeling his banana right?
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will probably not be reviewed in advance by a senior AICN person - cuz FOX doesn't let us into screenings
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Not that I know of, but I'm sure even if he was that wouldn't stop him from hitting on all the married or engaged chicks at the party. That's his MO now.
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I can't see Australia until after Thanksgiving because of no early screenings, but I'm pretty gay for Baz Luhrmann, so I'll definitely hit that up when I can.
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screened last Thursday here, but no invites for us truth tellers
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she must be insane
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I'm kinda sorta maybe thinking of seeing it
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to join us, he can't keep up
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likes to think of itself as Texas with shitty beer
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I think Penn for Milk, that Nixon guy and I'm sure that Eddie Murphy will win for DAVE
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I think the Keanu Day the Earth Stood Still looks like warmed over diarrhea soup. There might be some cool visuals to distract, though. I'm not expecting much.
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Is for Tyrese in Death Race Not-2000. I think Mickey Rourke might give him a run for his money, though.
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looks unbelievably awful as Klaatu
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as an ALIEN that acts like an ALIEN
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I'm working on getting us a screening of WRESTLER on December 11th - my actual birthday - so I can see it then
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I want Clint in front of the camera until he dies. The dude's amazing and has just seemed to grow more badass and threatening with age...
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... I'd like to see Langella in that race, along with Penn and Del Toro for CHE. I'm sure I'll get knocked out by some others as well.
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... and Mickey F'ing Rourke, of course.
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That'd be awesome. I can't wait to see that movie.
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Wall-E FTW
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Time for Quint to go sleepy-bye-time. Nighty nite, people
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foster's: australian for knoife
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Nov 26, 2008 5:38:56 AM CST
now that all the geek fury is in one place, answer me this..
by jonah echo
what black and white film has a miniature elephant in it, because it's been driving me crazy trying to find out?
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what did all of YOU think of Slumdog Millionaire?
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the live action mowgli?
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A sexbot. The humans have robots tending to their every need for 500 years, but they over looked one of the most basic ones?
Especially considering they all turned into mutated hambeasts who couldn't get up to stand and walk much less roll over on top of each other.
I bet EVE had an extra slot to accept 'other biological' samples... -
a Planned Parenthood after prom.
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=165938655988147885
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no, it wasnt that...This was a mini elephant in a cage, or something. Small, like hand-held size. I always thought it was in Bride of Frankenstein when Praetorious unveils his creations, but I watched that recently and it wasnt there. I know both sky captain and Stardust have mini-phants in them, but all of us seem to remember something older with a stop motion elephant in it, and Im starting to wonder if Im not crazy.
Silly thing to worry over I know, but we are geeks. -
this is without a SHADOW of a doubt the most bizarre talkback I've ever encountered on here, I love you guys!
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But you mistakenly thought that the money was normal sized and everything else was just really tiny?
Cause I do that sometimes. -
That's really funny.
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but that one's CGI, so I don't think it counts.
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a film about little known gay politician Jay Juice
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that in most cases not being allowed to see a Fox film would be considered a favor.
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a film about little known gay activist Wally Water
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best case of TB I've contracted in months. I have no idea where the miniature elephant might be, I'm really spotty on b&w film, really on all film. If it wasn't directed by Michael Bay or Tony Scott, I haven't seen it. Before I am slain, I joke.
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has no business making movies.
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a film about little known gay pastor Sal Soda
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Fox Searchlight is like the cooler, laid back, creative and artful version of the bloated giant. Kind of like the relationship between Austin and Texas.
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A unique cross-genre horror/gay pride flick
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agreed.
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was in that ep with Anne Heche and Malcolm McDowell about the "joes". He was a larger mini-phant. And there was that multi-colored elephanty thingee that was Oldman's pet in Fifth Element, but it's not that one either.
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I'm going to dream about the little bastard.
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the hot blond foreign daughter to Fox's fat trailer park trash family of regular properties who occasionally beat her cause she's way more attractive then them, which also cause them to occasionally fuck her as well before stealing her money.
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i want one
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I'd have stopped paying attention to American film, other than blockbusters.
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Miniphant, unless it's a boy, he shall be name Megaphant.
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what do you think of paramount vantage
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fox atomic, hahah. I think fox Atomic is the silliest thing to come from hollywood since that company who made Superman 4.
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Spent at least a month and millions of dollars deliberating whether or not they should put an 'X' at the end of Atomic.
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true. But didn't Harry like AvP?
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Vantage has Black Snake Moan, but half of my dvd collection is either searchlight or focus...still, black snake moan is freakin awesome.
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Yea, but I think we've all long established that Harry has the cinematic equivalent of spousal abuse syndrome, where a movie only hurts you because it loves you.
Although I'm not to sure if he did give it a positive review. I always thought Paul W.S. Anderson was a line too thick for anyone here to cross. -
The Emperor's New Clothes was really fun
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All wannabes.
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At the rate they're going we'll have more Saw Movies in 15 years than Bond films.
Remember folks, its quantity over quality! -
Milk is probably the most culturally and politically relevant film to be released this year, and with such a superb cast and crew behind the scenes, it should be stirring up all kinds of discussions from us on a political level as well as creative...
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If you see this movie or are against Prop 8 you will burn in hell for all eternity and won't get to party with my space Jesus and our fifty wives.
Also you must hate children, which means you hate families, which means you hate America. So, why do you hate America?
Discuss... -
I look at that insane block of black up there and cry a little tear. Mom and Dad have gone apeshit and are running the monkey house.
MILK is the best-timed movie ever. -
Seriously though. That was retarded. I'll give an honest answer, I find this movie almost irrelevant considering the backlash Grey's Anatomy received because of their openly lesbian couple, which was cut from the story rather hastily. I mean, so there is a movie released that has a gay protagonist. It won't change anything, just like Crash didn't end racism, Cider House Rules didn't popularize abortion, etc...
It looks well made, but the subject is uninteresting, and to show that I'm not a bigot of some sort, I'm also pretty bored by Valkyrie, the subject matter just doesn't grip me. -
before I'm soundly thrashed, I like a more up close and personal story, like Million Dollar baby as opposed to those WW2 movies, or the wrestler versus the fountain.
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Nov 26, 2008 6:57:35 AM CST
I don't think Milk will or would have a big impact on
by blindambition238
Prop 8. As I stated in a previous comment, nobody for prop 8 probably would have and will bother to see it.
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I'm just more drawn towards seeing Singer work from a McQuarry (sp) script again.
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I put a lot of retard up there
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serious talk, and then go all wacky on me...so, I guess all of it?
It's kind of odd, the uproar over gay marriage, technically, marriage is an institution of religion, not the state. If you wanted to have gay marriage, you'd have to go after the religions (mainly Christian denominations and Catholics) who define marriage as one man one woman. By definition, there is no such thing as gay marriage according to them. And why should gays want to have some sort of "acknowledgment" or treatment as equals from groups that discriminate against them? -
I can't believe how many of you are laughing about how it's the best talkback ever to see Harry and Mori running rampant like that, when it seems pretty obvious to me that those posts are NOT being written by them, but surely by someone who's hacked the site. I mean seriously, when has Mori, a professional writer with a penchant for verbosity and clarity of language, EVER used a 'txt/net-speak' abbreviation like 'LOL'?
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pah.
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Off to work now.
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and IF true, then they cannot be too happy about that.
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I feel like I was just transported 40 years into the future and was a fly on the wall at the AICN retirement home.
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Once again Moriarty shows the other AICN writers how to write.
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It's good to see you guys stir it up a little.raw_bean - I've seen Mori "LOL" several times in Talkback. He's probably "LOLing" right now...
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Nov 26, 2008 9:40:15 AM CST
I've never seen so much Black in one place- Mitt Romney
by stuntcock mike
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Seriously. What the fuck. First you mysteriously take down the Gus Van Sant interview, now this bullshit? Whats your beef? -
....did any of you find that Merrick Downey quote to be funny? Seriously. What the fuck is up with that?
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You couldn't have it more backwards. Marriage has always served the primary function defining certain secular legal rights and obligations, and exists prior to the idiosyncratic ceremonies individuals and religions wrap around it. Countless straight couples marry without ever seeing a priest, and remember what it is the wedding official, religious or secular, typically says: "by the power vested in me by the state of X, I now pronounce you husband and wife." Not by God, by the state. If you are a Christian, even Jesus says that marriages are irrelevant in the hereafter, and do not survive death. Marriage is by every reckoning a mortal affair, and to say that religions own it because priests bless marriages is like saying that because Christians pray before meals they own the word "lunch."
No court or government could force a church to perform a marriage ceremony, or any other rite, not endorsed by its doctrine. The First Amendment still guarantees them religious freedom. Moreover, nobody is asking them to. Gay Californians don't need the "acknowledgment" of religious bigots any more than religious people need "acknowledgement" of their beliefs by atheists. All they want is the equal regard under the law guaranteed them by the state Constitution.
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...we can make CHOCOLATE MILK.That's America! Fuck yeah!
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Haha. Fucking idiot.
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Harry just got a little too giddy. Over what? Dark Knight on Blue Ray! It's cool Harry can still get so, stoked over a film. Seriously.
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What's that look like? I still have difficulty picturing him without the cigarette.
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I don't even need to reply. All other TB already mentally did it.
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in a TB?
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Well, not really, but Australian beer is infinitely better than the shit you Americans drink.
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Fuck this. I'm outta here.
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Nov 26, 2008 1:59:24 PM CST
these black box comments sort of piss me off....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
They may be kidding around, but it sorts of sting every time the mods speak to the TB'ers like we're fucking children. I just dont like that shit. Its not cute. Its like a big fuck you to the regulars on this site. Whatever.
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you're just pissed cuz you discovered your dickblood tastes like BigRed which is made of Clown Blood - which means... you're made of clown blood, meaning... you're a fucking clown
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Uhhhhh. If that is you-- then you are in a weird fucking mood. No one is finding this funny but you. Haven't you done enough self-serving damage already with Script Girl and Twilight coverage?
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That was neat-o!
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while they were preparing the AICN Thanksgiving dinner it seems....
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this is just really fucking embarrassing. And I don't even work for the site. What a joke. Maybe I should consiter giving Ain't It Cool a break for awhile. Or at least until they cut out the stupid shit like the first half of this talkback.DGDB's right. It's not funny or even remotely clever. It's just obnoxious. And I can stick to other websites to get my movie news. Good riddance to this shit.
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It does look, um, out of character. That having been said: DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD had his feelings hurt? Seriously? What's wrong with this picture? How does he talk to people? Is this April Fools?
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watch this instead!
http://tinyurl.com/64sa65
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that's much better!Why not cover Run Bicth Run instead of shitting all over the people that visit the site Harry? How about some real fucking news? And no, that doesn't need I need seven more reviews of Milk.
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Took me a while to figure that out.
Ok we get it, this movie came out and gays should have the same rights as everyone else. Hey Harry, this is your site, you do what you want, but without the "kids" who come to your site, you're nothing. Try not to forget that. This thanksgiving, give thanks for the people who let you live the life you live. -
don't forget "gone"! that was pretty fucking damaging to this sites rep too!
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Except that long before there was any state government, there was religion. I was just being historically accurate, marriage was adopted by the state from religion, not vice-versa. I don't have it backwards, if the state could change the definition of "marriage" they would. Notice that in the past presidential campaign, both sides said they didn't want to change the traditional definition of marriage. Because it's not something the state would be able to change, if church and state are truly separated. Even Barak Obama, who let's face it, wasn't going to be getting the evangelical/right wing vote, said the same thing. And JP's say "by the power vested in me by the state of California" ministers say "by the power vested in me by God".
In order for gays to actually marry, the definition of marriage will have to change within the church, not the state. And if/when it did, there wouldn't be a roadblock from the state holding gays back. -
Why are the talkbackers always the ones concerned about the reputation of AICN? Is it because the staff is just fucking around and enjoying themselves, and the talkbackers... aren't? I come here specifically BECAUSE it's so immature and ridiculous, with an occasional nugget of truthiness (usually coded in satire and hidden in a Vern review) mixed in for good measure. What, I'm going to come here for journalism? I mean, what good is mod power on your own site if you don't abuse it?
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As both religion and government are at least coincident with the beginnings of recorded history, you don't really have any traction to claim that there was religion before there was government in any sense that informs this discussion. You are not being historically accurate. Instead you are inventing just-so stories that justify your prejudices. The earliest notions of marriage actually more resemble a legal property transaction than they do a religious rite. A dowry is the price paid by a suitor in exchange for a man's daughter. The "traditional marriage" described in the Bible is still quite similar to slave ownership in many respects. This is presumably not the "traditional marriage" you wish for.
In fact, religions have widely varying notions of the spiritual significance of being married, and those notions have changed drastically throughout history, mostly owing to shifts in secular social sensibilities. You don't begrudge Buddhists the word marriage. For that matter, atheists marry one another all the time with no public outcry. They certainly are not seeking the blessings and permission of Yahweh or anyone else. They are simply declaring themselves, publicly, to be a family, with all the legal and social implications that carries. This is the common underpinning of all the sundry religious interpretations of marriage. It is itself irreligious in nature, being concerned solely with the nature of a commitment two human beings make to one another. The state defines how the law respects that commitment, and in a secular nation your religion cannot dictate the terms. The government has an obligation to justify how they define distinct classes of people for discriminatory treatment under the law, and appeals to religion do not pass muster.
You at least strongly imply you will be okay with the state not "holding gays back" as soon as the church changes the definition of marriage. Mind if I hold you to that? Gay couples can go to any Unitarian Universalist church and have a service performed right now, a religious rite the state refuses to recognize. Furthermore, back when San Francisco started issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, a number of local churches immediately began voluntarily performing services for those couples, and happily so, because these were members of their congregations realizing a much longed-for dream.
If religion owns the concept of marriage as totally as you believe, then the case for state-recognition of gay marriage is actually even stronger. The existence of even one church anywhere in the country that performs a gay marriage means that under the Establishment Clause the government must honor that marriage. The United States Government may in no case be used as a tool to define whose religious beliefs are the "correct" ones, and to deny the legitimacy of those marriages would be doing exactly that. That is, IF marriage is entirely a religious status. -
That was wierd. Love all the uptight nerds over-reacting. I mean, immature shite goes on all the time in these TBs. Let the hosts have a go sometime!
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Why so fucking serious!
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what's the use of all that vast movie knowledge if we can't locate the miniphant?
Nice observation on the clownblood, but if you really try to savor it you'll find there's a hint of mime too. -
is using the geekmeister's account without his knowledge.
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Nov 27, 2008 4:21:52 AM CST
Oscar Chase for this type of film is A-Typical
by dracula_wants_the_amulet
All I can think about is Tropic Thunder and that "Full Retard" Quote.
Playing a gay character, or a psychically challenged character, or starring in a musical- shouldn't equate to an instant oscar win and or nom.
Same "Oscar Chase Type Shit" Every Year. You can literally point to it and then point to another winner a few years back and say~ Same fucking movie!!! Same fucking Movie!!! And yet the biz and crits still try to make us believe otherwise... They tell us that it's something new and dynamic and praiseworthy, and they know better... Deep down they know it.
Hows about something like the Ram or the Joker getting one~ I don't know maybe for making us believe and enjoy their preformances.
I mean no offense MILK supporters... It just to common an approach. And I know what a win will mean for the film. More sales on DVD. More minds opened. I get it. Brokeback didn't stop Prop 8. and that films had a long time to change things. -
Better late than never...Australia likes to think of itself as Texas......without the inbreeding....without the Bush family....with a high school diploma....without the rampant obesity....without the horse fellatio.
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That's one of the dumbest acts I've ever seen by a trio of 'staff members.' You guys have no call to delete anyone for anything after that ridiculous stroking session.
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... THAT MORI MISSED! LOL! You guys jack each other off much?
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... I've met Harry a couple of times, and well, he's 'weird'. If he didn't like your vituperative posting style you'd have been banned long ago. Harry has a pretty close circle. I can write circles around Moriarty, Quint, Herc, Capone, et al, but I am persona non-gratis for whatever reason, and he keeps rejecting my offers of assistance/AICN staff/reviewer overtures. My hunch is that I'm "too old". Have a look at www.clubangband.com - home of the 'original' "Tailenders" (similar to CoC)...
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Forgot that we lost the .com domain name! We are now: clubangband.org
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is writing "circles around Moriarty, Quint, Herc, Capone, et al" really that difficult? Not to generalize against all the AICN staff, but if you can use proper grammar and spellcheck, it's automatically better than half the articles on the site.
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THE LAY OF HARRYLLUVATAR In Austin Towne in days of yore, To be more precise, In Seventy Four, A band of Gypsies could be found, In their halls deep underground, Where hammers fell like ringing bells…
Oops! Wrong Poem! Ahem, To two of these a child was born,
Upon a chill and frosty morn,
A lusty lad with fiery hair,
The dresser drawer? He slept in there! They were traveling folk, of artful bent, In caravan they often went, To trade in wares from Cinema’s industry, The lad soon steeped in Hollywood history, No Mathoms these, but stuff of dreams, Original ‘One Sheets’ stacked in reams! This connoisseurs’ trail, the boy followed fast, ‘Til came a fateful day at last, When a poster cart, twelve hundred pounds, On loading ramp came hurtling down, No mortal strength could block it’s path,
And over his back it rolled in wrath. Thus Harry the Red laid waste and left low, Withdrew to his room and a CRT’s glow,
Then came he early, to the Internet ‘Faire’, And began to unearth the gems buried there,
Reinventing himself, from bed and on chair, A new Cyber Titan, with flaming red hair! ‘Tis Harrylluvatar, or Knowles you may call him, He’s first to tell you, film CRITICS appall him!
And thus to the web came “Ain’t It Cool News”, A forum for Film Geeks to share their views, Much to Hollywood’s lasting lament, Never shall Knowles ever relent! He takes on the mavens, the screeners, the pundits, Never succumbed he to the lure of the junkets, When ‘lluvatar speaks the industry shakes! And the NRG; it rumbles and quakes, They tremble with rage over posts that he makes. I could go on to tell you about Robin & Batman,
Or how Q. Tarantino’s a big Harry fan. But time grows short under Mr. Mofo’s Sun, So I’ll end with: Huzzah for Harry! A fine job, well done. -
tis' not mere circles,
thou scribe concentric hyperbolian haikus! -
... are you being truely "congratulatory" or or are you perhaps being "sarcastic"? I don't know you well enough to make a determination. My inclination is to believe the former. For what it's worth, that poem met with a lot of praise, including from Harry himself, when it was first promulgated in 2004.
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Is there a poster named "Yeats" that you are referring to? A quick word search indicates not. Fuck You, your Mom, your Dad, your little sister, the fucking horse you rode in on, and the hamster that looks like you! Freedom of speech you illiterate asswipe.
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Good call. I responded to that post just after he posted it, but he deleted it. Are you from Australia?
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Nice response.Perhaps the reason you're not asked to do reviews for AICN is because you're a foul mouthed person who will sling crude insults for no reason.I know this to be true, as you insulted me (and swore at me) on the "II Am Legend" talkback for not sharing your opinion, despite the fact that, had you read ALL my posts rather than just the last one, you would have found I DID share your opinion...Most journalists I read who write about film (except maybe in mainstream newspapers) will occasionally swear, but they will also present a reasoned opinion, irrespective of whether you agree with it or not. You, however, seem to swear more than my construction-site-working mate, who is the most foul-mouthed person I know, and you normally couple it with unwarranted insults.And by the way, your poetry sucks! I get the cute references to both real life and great works of yore, and at least you got it to rhyme, but your meter is all over the place! Iambic tetrameter to start, then going to Iambic pentameter, then to something I don't even recognise as a genuine poetic meter.Also, since when did the ability to write crappy poetry count as a CV entry for a job in journalism? If that was the case, the journalism industry would be flooded with millions of bored, illiterate housewives and angst-ridden, hormonal teenagers!
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And he told me to tell you to shut the fuck up too.
You're not a writer for this site because your writing sucks. That and you're a douchebag.
Your reading skills must not be up to par even with your rudimentary writing skills. Because if you could read, you would have deduced by now that people here know that you suck. -
Is it that obvious?It's pretty fucked up that he would delete peoples posts like that. Maybe it's a backlash because TB'rs have been giving him a lot of shit about his love of Twilight. Who knows?Anyway, I just thought I'd add my two cents, and stand up for my fellow aussies.And really... Texas? What a delusional motherfucker.
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yeh... i was kind of shocked by it all... anyway, cool to see another Aussie, there are only 20 million of us, glad to see a few wind up here. I havn't seen twilight so i cant comment, but speculation makes me iffy on that review, i can comment on his review of WANTED, i did not like that movie, infact i loathed it, i dont hate to many movies, but that one felt like a slap in the face.
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I haven't seen Twilight either, but I don't think anyone who was giving him shit had. Didn't see his review of Wanted, but I wouldn't be surprised if he tossed his cookies over it. It was a load of shit.
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I can't remember in detail his review of wanted, but i do remember that it was quite positive. He definitely gave it his endorsement. Although Moriarty took a dig at him in his own review of WANTED, so that was pretty cool. I have not seen MILK, but this was a great review, its just a shame that the talk backs seemed to overshadow the original topic... Milk should show up at the Dendy soon enough i hope. I appreciate Van Sant as a film maker, but i'm more interested in seeing the cast in this movie.
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It wasn't you that Galactic admonished to shut the fuck up, though apparently it should have been. Happy "Black Friday" lemming boy.
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Any time. Apparently you don't understand the concept of "trolling" any better than than yianni. I'll admit to being a loser with nothing better to do than antagonize other losers on a lame movie message board. Will you?
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The point of "The Lay of Harrlluvatar" was to tell a story. It was never intended as serious poetry. It was a joke, part of a birthday gift to Harry a few years back, you pedantic prick.
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