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Josh Schwartz To Pen Sassy X-Men Movie!!!
Beaks here...
I'll admit it: I watched THE O.C. All four seasons of it. So I'm not gonna go all high falutin' on Fox for hiring the show's creator, Josh Schwartz, to "inject a next-gen sensibility" into the X-MEN franchise.
It's just too bad that he's being forced to stick with established characters from the previous movies - e.g. Iceman, Rogue, Angel, Colossus, Jubilee and Shadowcat - rather than getting a shot at THE NEW MUTANTS. Then again, it's probably a good thing that Fox doesn't have access to those characters, 'cuz Rothman and his minions would just fuck them up, too (he says as he tries his damndest to remain upbeat about WOLVERINE).
I'd like to think Schwartz, who's enjoying a good deal of very well-deserved success with GOSSIP GIRL and CHUCK, will be given some degree of autonomy in the writing, but even if he decides to direct (and Variety claims he has that option), there's no way he'll get anything approaching final cut on his first feature outing. In other words, it'll be up to producers Lauren Shuler-Donner and Simon Kinberg to watch his back, and while I've plenty of respect for those two, The Rothman is a very formidable foe.
As with every other Marvel movie hitting theaters over the next five years, this one's got a clunky subtitle: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS. There's no word on a release date, but I imagine it will get in line behind MAGNETO. I'm sorry, X-MEN ORIGINS: MAGNETO. Did you know that Fox thinks you're a fucking moron?
Hit up Variety for the rest of the details. Good luck, Mr. Schwartz. I'm looking forward to a particularly sassy experience.
I am – Hercules!!
Just wanted to point out that The Hollywood Reporter's story on the matter suggests "First Class" could, like the "First Class" funnybook , deal with the early Xavier Institute days of Scott "Cyclops" Summers, Hank "Beast" McCoy and Jean "Marvel Girl" Grey (though perhaps not Angel and Iceman, since in movie continuity they came along later).
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uhuuh..thats right Cyclops..show me that one eyed snake..
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OH AND 1ST POSTERS CAN LICK MY SHIT ENCRUSTED,READY TO POP,OOZING,BLOODY HEMMOROID!
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Storm
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I have zero excitement for the wolverine movie, just looks like more of the same mediocre shit that is Fox and XMEN. It's such a shame considering I believe Xmen the best superhero comic book ever made.
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you're not first..you're not first..you hemmoroidial second poster!! HaHa
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for wolverine. Also did 25th hour and my favorite book ty so far City of Thieves.
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Nov 18, 2008 10:11:14 PM CST
I really hope there's a sunset clause for X and Spidey
by blindambition238
Cause Fox is seriously hellbent on fucking things up.
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Nov 18, 2008 10:11:20 PM CST
I really hope there's a sunset clause for X and Spidey
by blindambition238
Cause Fox is seriously hellbent on fucking things up.
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They just need to be nice and play ball with Marvel Studios
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it's truly an affront to the brain. anyone associated with that pile of shit AND the fucking OC should never be allowed near a film camera.re-goddamn-diculous...
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there was a dream called x-men.
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So will we meet the new x-men the ironist and little miss vixen?
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and stop acting like soapy teen drama and torrid romance has never loomed in the x-mythos in any capacity. come on now.
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They're not even using the actual first class(Jean, Scott, Hank, Warren, Bobby)! Sooo, why call it "First Class"? If they're making them companion movies to the X-MEN movies we have so far, then the "first class" would be Jean, Scott, Storm, and maybe Hank. Iceman, Rogue, Angel, Colossus, Jubilee and Shadowcat would not be anywhere near old enough to be in the school back then. They're not even trying. Fuck Donner, Fox, and Rothman.
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Because nobody can deliver the snark as GG than KB.
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To be fair, the OC (when it started off, anyways) was an interesting character study of social rejects/outcasts in what was portrayed as paradise. And then it devolved into male fanservice, shock-jock styled plot contrivances, and sheer stupidity.
Honestly, I think it's time that a new take on X-Men happened. . .the cartoons have bled the creative well dry--Wolverine and the X-Men can only do so much with material that's already been covered and recovered again and again. And the movies have already established and explored the X-Men mythos.
But a "sassy," teen-drama X-Men is something that will not appeal to comic geeks, nor drama-oriented teens. This is probably the worst idea ever. Aside from a Ratner-directed Conan, that is. -
rather than fight they can just rip each other apart with sharp stinging witticisms.
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rather than fight they can just rip each other apart with sharp stinging witticisms.
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Nov 18, 2008 10:42:56 PM CST
They had infinite amounts of good material in front of them...
by wolfman nards
And this is where they are? Cyclops? Dead. Professor X? Dead. Jean Grey? Dead. Wolverine? Hanging out with Gambit in 1970. Beast? Chillin with Niles on Frazier. Rogue? Cured! This should have been Marvels biggest franchise. This isn't completely Ratners fault. Bryan Singer has a knack for jumping into a comic book universe and smearing his jizzy DNA all over the place. Let's face it, the first X-Men was "cool" but it never lived up to the expectations we had after years of patiently waiting. X-2 was an improvement and foreshadowed potential greatness but we all know where that went.
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Nov 18, 2008 10:44:52 PM CST
not to keep on bitchin bout comic book movie adaptions buuuut
by crazybubba
they don't really need a new take on x-men, because, except for magneto and prof.x, they still haven't gotten it right.
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... but like TopHat pointed out, this isn't the "First Class". It's the "Second Class". But I doubt Fox wants to put a name to the quality of X-MEN movies they've been producing/developing since Singer bolted.Prove me wrong, Schwartz! I'm in your corner!
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Is there going to be a SMALLVILLE --DOOMSDAY--- talkback? DOOMSDAY, PEOPLE!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JT4ce7wePo
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What a dumb name
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can't wait til marvel get's the movie rights back...
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Nov 18, 2008 11:12:14 PM CST
They need to bring back Cyclops, put him in charge.
by flim springfield
James Marsden has actually been quite good in his movies since the terrible X-Men days. Give him another chance.
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Phoenix was totally wasted too, but then she comes back from the dead more easily. Cyc dying was the biggest fuck up though. It ruined the third movie and the series for me. Most other things that were wrong about X3 could be corrected, but that one takes some extra work.
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fyi rifftrax just covered X2..
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It worked for Batman and Bond. They'll never do it but they should really consider it. They could be balsy and do a "reboot" with a whole new cast and just bring Jackman and Halle (or suitable replacements) into the mix down the road in sequels.
I think both geek audiences and mainstream audiences alike would eat up a truer X-Men reboot starting with the original 5 coming together throwing on the old Blue (or Black)and gold masked uniforms and fighting Magneto for the 1st time. You could get Danielle Panabaker(the chick from Sky High) to play young Jean Grey, cast a new younger Cyclops, Beast and throw in a new Angel and Iceman(like I said, with Batman, Bond and too a lesser extent Hulk audiences are used to franchises rebooting nowadays).
For once we'd get an actual X-Men movie as opposed to "Wolverine and His Amazing Friends". An X-Men movie with all the awesome action we saw in X-Men 3 but the commonsense integrity and respect for the source material we really didn't see in ANY of the movies. AND a new Professor X and Magneto. I always thought Christopher Walken would have been a better Professor X than the obvious lazy fanboy choice of Patrick Stewart. How weird would he look with a bald head doing all that Dead Zone shit with his eyes. "Cyclops...the ice...IS GONNA BREAK!" and they can grab whoever the hell their casting as Magneto in the upcomming flick to play him in this one so no more brillo-faced queeny, catty Ian McKellan.
As far as Wolverine goes he can always be brought in down the road(either played by Jackman or recast) in a sequel. But it'll probably never happen. -
Anybody here who saw AVP knows that.
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quit buying tickets. Money talks, and when they make shitty ass movies, us going and then bitching about it doesn't do much good for future arguments.
I know, I know, we're all starved for decent Marvel movies, but I think by this point it's fool me once, shame on you.. fool me the fifth time, I know you only hit me because you love me. -
Damn enter button! I was going to say that I'll be happy as long as I get some more Kitty Pryde action. And either way, I'll always be up for some new X-movie and this idea sounds passable enough. I guess at this point, it's hard to be as harsh a disappointment as X-Men: The Last Stand was. And right now, I'm very skeptical about Wolverine.
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If it succeeds, we'll see what actually happens next. That being said, I'm tired of this franchise.And there ain't a Hell hot enough for Rothman...and Philbrick...
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there was an X-Men First Class miniseries a few years ago, but it's now an ongoing series, along with Wolverine: First Class (and apparently Weapon X: First Class, which makes no sense). I say they keep Grammer as Beast, recast Storm and make them the schoolrunners. Bring back Nightcrawler. Students be Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Angel, Colossus, Jubilee, Syren, maybe. Some new ones - maybe Warpath, Cannonball, perhaps the one from Joss Whedon's run (can't remember her name). Introduce Emma Frost (cast Julie Benz) and the Hellions as rivals, maybe a Hellfire Club scenario (all about seducing the innocent). No Magneto, Xavier only in spirit. No Wolverine. No Rogue unless you make her go nuts by getting her powers back and absorbing someone - make Emma the Mystique character who turns her badass (without the mother stuff). or better yet, do the real first class and reboot the whole damn thing, with young non-blue Beast, young Scott, young Jean, Bobby and Warren.
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I'm loving Chuck, so if Schwartz brought the same vibe to an X-Men film I'd be happy. It's not Joss, but it's as close as you can get, I think. Considering Schwartz, cast the uberhot agent from Chuck as Emma Frost.
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..watched The OC!??
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This is totally clusterfucked.
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it is not clear who the movie will be focusing on. i think the author of the original article just threw those names out there to speculate as to what direction the movie may take. my guess is that it will mostly feature "new" characters and 1 or 2 hold-overs from the past films. seems very unlikely that it will be a prequel though.
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Let the movie focus on the current X-Men movie universe and get the X-Men cast in for a few brief cameos so we can move the storyline forward fer crissakes. After 2 prequel movies in a row (Wolverine & Mags) do we really need a third?
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Lame This is really lame.
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What made the X-Men successful in the first place was the team dynamic. The original 5 were pale Fantastic 4 rip-offs with zero charisma or chemistry. They were in reprints for, like, 40 issues before they even hit issue 100. Cyclops could be a good character, but the only thing that ever made Jean Grey interesting was the Dark Phoenix. Angel is awful. Beast is unecessary, and Iceman...whatever...Iceman's ok. "ok."
I don't understand why Fox doesn't take the team that originally put X-Men on the map (Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat...maybe Rogue) and run with it. Use Shadowcat as the innocent, intangible eyes we see the film through, forget Jean Grey ever existed, cast Serena or Venus WIlliams as Storm and have them beat the fuck out of the Genoshan army (humans), the Hellfire Club (a rival band of mutants), and finally Magneto (former ally) over 3 movies.
I hated that there were students involved in the movies at all. Fanboys got all twitterpated when fucking Siryn was on screen. Siryn sucks. Don't give her a cameo. Don't give Arclight a cameo. Don't do cameos. Develop Storm (a great character) some. Make the team the students. More can be added over 3 movies (as needed), but seeing cameos just to see a cameo was gratuitous.
Also, I'd like to see the powers used. I'd like to watch Storm in action and be frightened. I want to see structure damage. I want to understand the scale of destruction. Play up the fear humans have of them. Because they should be uncanny.
Not quippy and overly emotional.
The first Nightcrawler from X2, the casting of McKellan and Stewart, and their handling of Mystique aside, all 3 of the X movies were painful disappointments. At least from this fan's perspective.
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Schwartz is one of the most hackneyed writers around. I believe he yearns to be Whedon, but will never even come close. I literally laughed out loud when I read an interview with him referenced the "mythology" of Gossip Girl. Wait to go fox! You're settin' yourself up for future summers as wonderful as 2008.
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...seeing Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, a girl that can't hit or be hit, and Frasier face off in their "Last Stand" against Magneto AND Dark Phoenix AND an army of evil mutants and win...just...I wept.
They blew their wad too early.
Reboot. -
steal their shit.
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..from Fox & Sony?
They clearly don't give a crap about the content, just the box office - X3 could have been great, and did have a few cool scenes (Danger Room, Wolvie/Juggernaut, some of the final battle) and don't start me on Spidey 3.
Seriously, if they do Spidey 4 are we still to believe Kirsten Dunst ISN'T a dog? -
.... kinda saved x3? I remember reading that average as the finished article was it was actually better than had been exected before he took over, o?
Anyway It's a bad sign that fox are wanting to do this because they are too tight to pay the established cast what they've earned after the 1st 3 movies.
Other than that, to be fair to X-Men it's make up does kind of lend it to being very teen friendly, given that it is often dealing with several Teens in it's storylines. As usual I'll wait and see, I'm dissapointed mostly because I was hoping that the "origins" movies were gonna be the end of it for fox and the "X-men" films could go back to Marvel.
Wolverine is possibly the film I'm most looking forward to next year, mostly because of my love for the character and the way Jackman has played him. -
Nov 19, 2008 3:05:26 AM CST
wouldn't it be better if they made this into a tv series?
by colonel_blimp
then it could be everything heroes isn't. ie. good.
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Turn X-Men into a cable television show (cable shows have so much more freedom. None of that watered-down bullshit. I say put it on F/X Channel. They have great programming.
Only this time instead of just blatanly calling it X-Men, just call it Children of the Atom. And throw in the real-life twist that Heroes originally had, only better. -
that's what Marvel need to do, and steal Josh Schwartz on the way out! He's a great writer who could make us give a shit about the X-Men again, you only have to see one episode of Chuck to know he's perfect for the job.
Marvel please please please please don't trust Fox! they'll just leave the raped & coked out corpse of the X-Men in the gutter.
Is that what we want? -
only a chosen few have been truly great...HellBoy for one, 300....
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Nov 19, 2008 5:04:51 AM CST
TURN X-MEN INTO A TV SERIES, BUT FIRST GET IT BACK FROM FOX.
by shermdawg
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will arrive on set and then thier dad appears. starts to direct the movie. orders coke. starts to fire the entire crew. puts himself in charge makes cardboard signs and starts to jump up and down when things go wrong.
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He was driven away from X-men.
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sounds stupid, and probably will be too
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So have at it.
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Nov 19, 2008 6:28:22 AM CST
Hey, Shermdawg... Colour me curious...
by i_am_not_the_droid_you_are_looking_for
I always thought Singer jumped ship for Superman. How was he driven away?
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But I do hope they use Dazzler someday. It could be a good low budget solo movie with a hot lead that sings.
X-men needs better writing whatever they do. I am surprised they are not shoehorning in Wolverine in this one. -
I WANT my Wolverine in the black and gold costume (with the mask) I WANT my goddamn Cyclops to kickass in an X-Men movie..I'd love to see a movie that's more like the source material. They're just messing it up more and more :-(
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marvel would buy back the rights to all its characters, use their own writers to write screenplays and find directors who specialize in directing comic book action flicks. Nothing against the established practice of having directors jump from genre to genre, but there have been way too many screw ups to think this is the best way to do these kind of movies. The directors who seem to have the most success with it are guys who not respect comics, but have a passion for the material. Nolan's gritty style fit perfectly with Batman and Rodriguez went out of his way to convince Miller to make Sin City. If the people behind the scenes are more concerned with leaving their stamp on the material and doing things their way we end up with batman and robin,catwoman and spiderman 3. Ratner specializes in comedies and their good, so let him do his thing. Schwartz specializes in teen drama so let him do that. Despite what some of these TBer's are sayin, X-Men does not lend itself to teen drama. Any comic fan knows the best issues took place when they were adults and had to deal with the Hellfire Club, Arcade or aliens from Shi'ar.
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Wait and see!!!
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..X-man for some time now. Certainly in the Ultimate x-men there has.
I'm curious; are you saying that would be a problem? -
It's not some epic masterpiece in storytelling, but it's well written and acted. The two leads (Leighton Meester and Blake Lively) are two of the hottest girls to ever grace the CW/WB network. Not to mention KBell does the snarky narration perfectly. How can anyone hate a show where the kids smoke joints, drink whenever they want, spend money like crazy, while wearing incredibly short skirts?
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I could care less if there is a gay X-Men- this movie is moving into campy territory and looks to be high schoolish... so there will be the stereotypical gay character, funny black man role, and bitchy female role too!
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gay and alpha flights an x-men spinoff group.
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So, likely no Wolverine in this one. At least he's getting his own movie...although it might suck. So, are they sticking to the same storyline from the previous films, but just going back in time, or is it a reboot? And should I care? Because it will probably suck too. Too bad Marvel doesn't have the film rights to these characters.
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Nov 19, 2008 8:25:43 AM CST
Can Marvel get creative control of Xmen like the Avengers?
by mr slippy fist
I want to see the Hulk vs. Wolverine!
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It just feels wrong. Let Schwartz dev something ORIGINAL or take a stab at an as-of-yet unproduced Marvel property.
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"Eldest" and "Greenwitch". And not fuck those up. Besides, is it just me, or do they want their Walden Media productions to fail? I wanted to see "City of Ember" about 2 or 3 weeks after its release, and it was gone. Next time, don't rely on commercials leading up to the release date and Wendy's toys to carry a movie like that.
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What's the point of labeling something "The Final Chapter" or "Last Stand" when it's clearly not the fucking case? That said, I'm not looking forward to the Wolverine movie. I find him a boring character, just another "tortured" hero. The Magneto film, however, looks promising. Villains are much more interesting than heroes, especially one with such a twisted and tragic past like Magneto.
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two, one
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Okay, it's two more letters to type out "write" but you don't sound so much like a douchebag writer for Variety.
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fuck this shit. i wont see it. sorry fox, but fuck off and stay out of comics.
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Until Marvel can buy back the X-Men movie franchise from Fox, then f*** this movie.
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let's have an Alpha Flight movie!
Sasquatch! Guardian! Snowbird! Shaman! Puck! Box! That hot French Canadian twin whose name escapes me! Cool characters! The death of Guardian was devastating! I am done with exclamation points!!! -
is pure crap and anyone who likes it is a mental midget.
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Until they're in the hands of someone other than Rothman and Fox.
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Just wanted to give a little more accurate history of the X-Men.
They were in reprints from 1970-1975. In May of 1975, Giant Size X-Men #1 was published with Xavier recruiting new talent. The reprints stopped in August when #94 was published. #94 was also when Claremont started working on the title. #94 has been the crown jewel for collector's for several decades.
You mention "the team that originally put X-Men on the map (Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat...maybe Rogue)". They were on the map for several years before this lineup was in place. The modern team was in place for 5 years before Kitty joined and Rogue didn't leave the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and join the team until #171 in 1983. While Rogue turned into a great character, Kitty was universally disliked. Similar to Jubilee.
Then you go on about, "forget Jean Grey ever existed, cast Serena or Venus Williams as Storm and have them beat the fuck out of the Genoshan army (humans), the Hellfire Club (a rival band of mutants), and finally Magneto (former ally) over 3 movies." This is where I really take issue with you. Why would you completely 86 Jean Grey, the star of one of the best story arc's of all time, The Dark Pheonix Saga? This arc alone is enough for several movies. In fact, there is literally no need to write new storylines for this franchise. Take what is already written and polish. Dark Pheonix, God Loves, Man Kills, Days of Future Past, Mutant Massacre, Fall of The Mutants, House of M, or X-Cutioner's Song could make incredible subjects for movies. And please don't tell me the Dark Pheonix story was already dealt with in X3. It was not dealt with. It was forcibly sodomized with a fire hydrant and left on the side of the road to die in X3. Also, does it matter to you that the Williams sister's cannot act? We've seen what a horrendous actress can do with Storm, how about casting a talented woman for the role? -
I've known Josh since he was in college. He's always been a total comic book geek. This is not something he'll take lightly. Given his body of work on TV, I totally understand the hesitation, but knowing his passion for the realm, please give him a chance.
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Once an proud original member of the X-Men, now will be forever remebered as that young whiny kid in the movies.
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He was criminally under used in X3, and he's the best actor out of all the young ones.
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He should be in this too.
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Just like those Muppet Babies. Yeah. Bring it on.
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its cool that you were straight-forward about knowing this guy Josh instead of pretending to be some random impartial poster calling every one a whiner or idiot for questioning this guys creditability. If he does love comics,even though his background is questionable i'll give him a shot, just tell him to get the casting right and stay true to the genre by not making it the x-men version of Twilight. Even if he is good the man and his army suits will probably find a way to make it suck.
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I liked the guy who played Iceman. I thought he did a decent job. I don't see the need with half the X-men dead now you could have Patrick stewart and Hugh Jackman, with Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, Kitty and some other "young" ones anyway? Surely even Fox could spring for paying Jackman and Stewart. Oh, no wait it's Fox they are tight as it gets. They've made 2 decent Marvel comic movies out of whatseven? 7? and the 1st of those they got lucky that Singer got so much out of his teeny budget.
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she needs to play X-23
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Such language, from such a gentleman?
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Having them fight giant robots will get my ticket money, otherwise no deal.
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Nov 19, 2008 2:28:51 PM CST
Speaking of Joss Whedon, I couldn't help but think...
by blindambition238
when I was watching Serenity that the main cast/ crew of the ship could easily have been transplanted into an X-Men movie.
Fillion=Cyclops, Baldwin=Wolverine, Torres=Storm, Doctor guy=Beast, Glau=X-23, Engineer Chick= Kitty.
Hell the character dynamics even sorta resembled the X-Men. I never watched the show though, so I can vouch how truly accurate that is. -
i really don't want this to happen.
really.
seriously...this is bad. just stop with the x-men movies for a few years...just stop...then start over.
because this...this can't happen. the x-men comic books literally changed my life and to see them continuously butchered on the screen and not taken seriously is really sickening. so please- God in heaven- make this stop. -
say whatever you want about the rest of the film, but you know this to be true...
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can't agree that X-Men doesn't do teen drama. The arcs you mentioned, with the exception of the Hellfire Club (and not every Hellfire Club story), those were the weakest. Shiar, Arcade, Brood - all that stuff was cheesy ripoffs of other genres and other comics. Where X-Men always excelled was in the group dynamic and the teen drama (story arcs with Kitty and Jubilee were especially good). Even the Dark Phoenix arc worked because of the drama around Jean, not because of the whole Shiar aspect. I had no problem with the film taking the alien aspect out of the story. Where they really raped the Dark Phoenix story was by taking any of the drama out of the situation - no struggle with the dark side. Just boom, she's evil and joins Magneto for no apparent reason. Plus the fact that the struggle over Jean and her powers should have concerned the triad relationship with Scott and Xavier, where Scott has to ultimately sacrifice her. The only role Wolverine should have played in that story was to be the voice of practical reason, goading Scott to make the right choice while sublimating his own feelings for Jean. He certainly should not have been the one to do it. Killing Cyclops early on and offscreen was a dumb move that completely sucked any resonance out of the story and shit on the most important character in the X mythos next to Xavier. Oh, and they killed him, too.
Ironically enough, Joss Whedon had said that if he had written the 3rd film he wouldn't have used the 'cure' idea, which was taken from his own X-Men comics. Instead, he would have firmly focused the film on Dark Phoenix, as part of a theme about powers getting out of control. This would have been great for a Rogue arc, where she gets a bit more crazy after absorbing too many powers, maybe even turning her against the X-Men, in homage to her original story arc in the comics. And of course, Wolvie getting a bit too feral. This would have been a great opportunity. The X-Men accidentally hurt or kill people because they (probably Jean) get out of control and the Brotherhood exploits it and adds to it. The public gets confused and no longer sees the difference between a good mutant and an 'evil' one. People really start to fear them, the protests and riots begin, and the government decides to go ahead with Operation Wide Awake, ending with a climactic Sentinel battle, instead of that dumbass throw everything at the wall and see what sticks non-sensical fight scene in X3. The cure could have been introduced late in the plot and still used to put down Jean, but save the cure story and its implications for a later film. It would have even worked if it was saved for the First Class movie, because then you could focus on Beast as a mentor, and have the kids struggle with this. I really wish we could erase the shit stain that was X3 and start over with a REAL continuation of X2. -
I think you detractors are taking it too seriously and therefore out of context. It's a parody and damn well-written one. It probably helps to live in New York though, and, Crankyoldguy your mom's basement doesn't count.
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Wolverine for me was what undid the X-Men movies. Not the character specifically or the actor who played him (although I am part of that minority who never believed Hugh Jackman in the part) but the fact that they focused so heavily on him at the expense of all the other characters. Yes, he is the most popular X-Men, and yes, it is a movie and you are supposed to have a central character, but not at the expense of all the other characters. Everything was always Wolverine this and Wolverine that. Just look at the first X-Men movie: they originally thought Magneto was going after Wolverine; than they realized he was going after Rogue, who happened to have a bond with Wolverine; that the X-Men had to make so much effort to recruit Wolverine because he didn’t want to join; that Wolverine was the only hero who had a one-on-one fight with another villain, Sabretooth; that Wolverine always got the last word or taunt in with stick-in-the mud Cyclops; that Wolverine and Jean Grey obviously had an attraction towards each other; and that it had to be Wolverine that finally put a stop to Magneto. If I was another actor in that series, I could see why they would be reluctant to do another X-Men movie.
While Wolverine might be everyone’s favorite member of the X-Men, he isn’t the most important. No one is, they are a team. That to me was the number one reason why the series was bad; they failed to create any other characters in the team that we cared about or would want to follow. Can you imagine a 10-year-old kid wanting to be any other members of the team save for Logan? Hell, when Star Wars came out when I was six, kids wanted to be Obi-Won, Luke, Han, Princess Leia and even frickin’ Chewie. What kid would want to be Cyclops or Storm from the movie?
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My other problem with the X-Men movies was the tone and sensibilities that Bryan Singer brought to the project. While I do not wish to sound homophobic, and I have no problem with a gay director doing a major blockbuster, this is one time where his personal viewpoint seriously damaged the project. Bryan Singer didn’t make the X-Men gay, he made the entire series about only being gay. The great thing about the X-Men is that they make a great metaphor for anyone who feels left out or disenfranchised, so they can work as a stand in for sexuality, race, religion, foreigners, teen angst, women, you name it. Singer’s X-Men was just about being gay. Senator Kelly asking if you want a mutant teaching your kids in X1; name any other group people worry about than homosexuals being around are children. I don’t think I have ever heard someone mention they were worried Asians or Blacks might be teaching their kids. Or how about when Iceman tells his parents he is a mutant, and his mom ask him if he could try not being a mutant? Or how the religious zealot General Stryker planned on getting rid of mutants because he finds them an abomination? Or even the idea of the Cure in the third one seemed like the homosexuals communities fear (and probably a well place one) of the Christian Churches attempts to ‘cure” homosexuality.
Like I said before, I don’t mind the gay metaphor and subtext, but that is all the movies became about (hell, even the casting began to take on a gay sensibility). The X-Men represent much more than just one group of persecuted people.
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Well to be fair,I had no idea that "Chronicles of Riddick" was a sequel to Pitch Black. I didn't see either movie.
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huh? How did Singer make X-Men just about being gay? All these examples you've pointed to are only evidence that people still use this kind of language of fear about gays (just ask Californians). It's no longer ok to use that kind of language with other races or ethnicities. But it certainly used to be, especially at the time that X-Men was created. Nowadays, that's the language of persecution that we recognize because it's still being used. It's the most immediate to today's audiences. And "gay sensibility casting"? With the exception of Ian McKellen queening up Magneto a bit (and really if any character would be gay, it would be him), EVERY other character is pretty damn hetero. Ok, Nightcrawler was kind of asexual. Anyway, I think this criticism is a bit odd and unfounded, and says more about you than the movies.
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Seriously guys the new suits are design by Dolce and Gabana. Iceman like his Apple Martini on ice. Kitty Pride backstaps Rogue and steals her boyfriend. The girls all pine over the new boy Angel, who is quiet and handsome and kind of a rebel.
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yea taking the key dramatic element of jean's struggle with her dark phoenix side killed X3 along with offing cyclops and xavier. Having logan and rogue go apeshit along with jean and accidentally kill people works for me as clusterfuck mexican standoff scenario--X-men vs. x-men vs. everyone or least the Hellfire Club. Not only are they outcasts because of their powers, but the problems they have controlling their powers alienates them even further.Can't agree w/ you on the teen drama though. I was never a big kitty p. fan and don't know much about jubilee. Besides most of the x-men are adults and so are their best characters.
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i enjoyed all of them. for different reasons.
X1 basically was a brilliant invention - Singer figured out how to bring costumed heros into the 'real world'. so many movies since then have riffed off his vibe - please let's give him his due. the first time wolvie pops his claws out in the bar?? awesome! also, jackman was PERFECT for that role and the movie had emotional depth via the rogue storyline and the other excellent actors.
X2 - emotional stakes go up, addition of Nightcrawler (awesome), Wolvie berserker episode, Pyro going wrong. More Mystique. C'mon it was great.
X3 - slight change of tone. faster, shorter. Cyclops death - devastating. Prof X too. she shattered him to pieces. crazy. Phoenix full on destruction - awesome! Wolvie has to kill her. Awesome!
i like the word awesome. -
to let you know about scandelous lives of the mutant elite. xoxo, X-Men.
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I don't mind such criticism at me, and would expect it. What I suggest is a very touchy subject, and should be challenged, and I respect the fact that you have called me out on it. But I have my reasons, which I will explain:
Yes, there is still homophobia and fear directed towards gays, and some of that language was once directed towards other minorities. But first off, the type of language used in the film is no longer used towards them. This type of hateful language is now directed primarily at homosexuals. If they wanted to use mutants as a surrogate for other racial or ethnic hatred, maybe they should have had a variation of the infamous 14 words of White Supremacist groups, or the old Nazi charge against Jews comparing mutants to vermin. But no, I didn’t hear anything like that. Not even a “how mutants and humans shouldn’t mingle.”
And secondly, I have never heard someone asked to stay in the closet like Ice Man save for a gay person. A Jewish person might be felt compelled to hide his ethnicity in public, but not by his own family. Nor would he expect his brother to reject and hate him. Same with the idea of being afraid of a mutant teaching your kids; He might have had Sen. Kelly say they don’t want them to be scoutmaster’s as well. And it is hard to “Cure” being black or Hispanic. I don’t think I have heard of the concept of someone using drugs or gene treatments to eradicate any other group save for homosexuals, Not even Jews since that is not viewed as an ethnicity and a religion and not a genetic predisposition.
As for casting, perhaps that was a poor term to say gay sensibility as much as to say Bryan Singer’s aesthetic taste. One of my biggest faults with the first X-Men movie was that all the heroes were good-looking, and all the evil mutants were freaks. They should have had some of the weirder, less human X-Men in the first movie if they wanted to show how being a mutant can be also be a curse. As it was, I don’t see any reason why any of the X-Men should be whining about being a freak (save for perhaps Rogue).
But as for all the choices being very hetero, I have to disagree with you. Both the male members where definite eye-candy and went against the depiction of the characters in the comic. I mean, James Marsden is a little too much of a male model to be Cyclops in my opinion.
As for Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, I know he is well loved by many fanboys, but I have always thought he was wrong for the part. I used to be a doorman at a biker bar (scared the shit of me) and I have seen the type of tough, mean son-of-bitches that go there. I always imagined that even without his adamantium skeleton and claws, and regeneration powers, Wolverine could mop the floor with most of the guys there. I did not sense that from Hugh Jackman. Even while they were trying to ugly him up, he was way to good looking to be Wolverine. Ok, maybe in the above examples to use Bryan Singer’s sexuality as a reason for the casting was a bad idea. Maybe it has more to do with his own personal taste of what leading men should look like. But from stories I have heard from people who have worked with him, I can’t help but associate the two (especially when I see the teen X-Men in part 2, Ice Man, Pyro, and Colossus).
As for the rest of the gay subtext in the movies, I can understand why Singer put it in. You make films based on what touches and affects you. If Spike Lee had made it, I probably would have felt more of direct link between mutants and the Black Experience; if Spielberg directed it maybe he would have made it seem more like the Jewish experience during the rise of the Nazi’s; and if Josh Whedon made it I would have only seen the thing as teen drama writ large (and I would have complained about such narrow depictions as well). But Springer did make, and I did notice the gay subtext to the film, and unfortunately it distracted me from enjoying the series. Maybe for you and others it didn’t bother you, or maybe you felt it was a very small part, but not for me. It seemed to have become the entire reason for why he was making the movies. And for me the X-Men aren’t just a metaphor for being accepted for being gay, despite how noble that gesture is.
But like I said before, that is only my opinion.
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he just not convincing as a tough guy and he's way too tall. They found the one actor in hollywood over 6ft. Should've been Angela Bassett not Halle and Affleck as daredevil was just wrong.
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Nov 19, 2008 6:47:02 PM CST
I do admit I might have misread and misinterpret things
by continentalop
And that I was seeing evidence of a subtext by Bryan Singer that really wasn’t there. Sometimes the “gayness” of the X-Men movie had me seeing subtext that probably didn’t exist, such as: does Sabretooth represent “Bears”? Does Mystique represent a fag hag or the cross-gender individual? When did Prof. X and Magneto split up as a couple? And is Cerebro a euphemism for ‘gadar?”
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You've probably moved on from this thread, but...
It bothered me that Halle Berry couldn't act...at least Venus/Serena look the part...beautiful and imposing. A decent director paired with a good script could cure that...but...looks like that is too much to ask.
What I meant by the team that put X-Men on the map was the team that brought them from cancellation...Kitty Pride wasn't there right away, but she could be used (as she was in the comic) as a device to draw the reader/audience in. I didn't know she was disliked, but she's a great character. I am concerned that having a movie with Beast, Cyclops, and Jean Grey with the X stamp on it. Those 3 characters are boring...boring because they are good guys. Only good. No struggle with them. Storm was a thief. Wolverine (should be) a maniac. Nightcrawler is frightening to look at.
And, if Jean Grey is going to be included...I would hope it would be as the Dark Phoenix. Although, if they were to do this...the Shi'ar Empire would have to be introduced. There's nothing cosmic about the Golden Gate Bridge. I wasn't saying the Dark Phoenix saga was represented well in the 3 movies...far from it. I hated the way they handled her. It was brutal. If Jean Grey needs to be present (ugh) then the only pay off, for me, would be to see her as the Dark Phoenix. And, I also HATED how she killed herself at the end of X2 before she even was the Phoenix...takes the power away from her doing herself in to save the universe.
I was more complaining about the saturation of underused cameos. Psylocke (one of my favorites) was wasted. Fuck, all of the characters were wasted. It was a bad trilogy.
I think I agree with you, I just didn't state it correctly, perhaps.
And, my timeline wasn't 100% accurate...
They need to take parts of X-Tinction Agenda and God Loves, Man Kills (human fear =hatred) for the films, because that is a unifying thread throughout the X books. However, taking Days of the Future Past, or Mutant Massacre, or Inferno or any of these is biting off more than they can chew. It's too much ground to cover in an ensemble movie where ends needs to be tied up.
Anyway, I love the X-Men. I'd rather there be no movie at all, than a shitty one. -
Why don't they just pull some random cast members of the OC to star in it, too?
Fuck everything. -
Married and Dad you fuck. Don't live in basement you wussy sack of shit. If you're gay and like Gossip Girl, fine, but I don't know one straight male who does; in fact, our gay friends think it's mighty stupid too. I would've been out of it's demographic in any decade since my teens. I can spot TV crapola on Gossip Girl is among the worst. It's for the small-brained folk of the universe, which is clearly you.
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Just do an installment... if you don't want to honor the existing series, that's fine. But for the love of god don't reboot.
The story is done. It's solid. That latest installment stumbled,,, so what.
And really go back and watch X3 again.. it wasn't bad. It wasn't what it *should* have been, but it wasn't bad and it had some truly good segments.
Go back and watch X1.. it has just as many flaws as X3.. different flaws, but just as many. X2 was just so freaking awesome, you forget how uneven X1 was.
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I did. But maybe because I hadn't read the comic books... oh and at least you X-fans didn't have Michael Bay (D@mn you) screw it like he did in Transformers.
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XINO or would it be XMINO?
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Why don't they have him make a real Generation X movie instead? He could use half of the cast from Gossip Girl in the roles as it is..They made that mediocre Generation X tv movie back in the 90s but on the big screen they could actually do something good, and they wouldnt have to worry about staying within the Xmen continuity. Just spin off Jubilee (who lends herself the most to the Gossip Girl style of writing anyway), bring in Emma and Banshee as the new teachers and intro the other GenX kids. Could be a whole new franchise or tv series.
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It would be to track down that moron Brett Ratner (Yea, the guy that fucked up X-3, I liked Joss Whedon's idea much better) and tell him "Hey, Asshole!!! How does it feel knowing you FUCKED UP X3!!" Then I would turn to the producers of that movie, forgot her name and recite the quote she made about X3. She said "X3 is the best movie out of the trilogy." To that I have to ask, "What the HELL were you smoking when you made that retarded comment? Cause all I saw was a pile of shit on a screen posing as the X-Men." Wolverine isn't a leader! Storm actually has an accent! Dark Phoenix is supposed to have vocal chords! Fire vs Ice battle should actually be interesting to watch! Senitels are supposed to be MOBILE. Cyclops loves Jean, not fucking Wolverine. And Wolverine never smiles, so dont try to close out a fuckin X-Men movie ever again with him standing on a balcony smiling like some happy camper of a faggot. Sheesh, is that too much to ask for?
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...with the anti-gay slurs.
I can stomach things being called "gay" because everyone knows...sometimes shit is "gay." It's a phrase that even the gays have grown accustomed to. I understand and use it myself, even as a "faggot."
But, hey...can it be used sparingly?
There's no need to drop an "F" bomb.
It makes you sound really stupid.
Really stupid.
Really.
Stupid.
Don't be stupid.
Stupid.
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When i use the word faggot, I don't refer to gay people. For me it means cheesy/campy/corny/lame/wack as hell. If you don't subconsciously refer to yourself as a faggot and have high self-esteem, then you shouldn't be offended by my use of the word because it wasn't used to describe you. Not unless you personally identify with it. Just like your repeated use of the word stupid. Im not offended by it b/c I'm not stupid. Moving on....
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tackle a faithful rendition of the Claremont/Sienkiewicz run on New Mutants.
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Nov 20, 2008 3:57:41 AM CST
Does time give people 20/20 vision or glorified distortion?
by i_am_not_the_droid_you_are_looking_for
Because the x-men flicks were good. I'm no fan of the comics, but i went to the first one and it was WAY better than i thought it would be, even if I thought Russell Crowe should've been Wolverine (look into your hearts, you know this to be true). X-men 2 was really damn good. Xmen 3 was ok. A disappointment to be sure after the first 2. But it wasn't bad. Ratner is a shooter. Not a filmmaker, so all the blame should not be pointed at him. It was a combination of story, script & execution. But it was still ok.And someone mentioned Bay fucking up Transformers. My question is... What the fuck could ANYONE do better when saddled with giant robots duking it out for the good of mankind? Is it because he put flames on Prime? Was it Shia? Transformers was exactly what it had the potential to be. Nothing more. I'll go see the next one, because no one rolls shit off the back of a truck into oncoming traffic quite like Bay!There, is said it.
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Damn!
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fuck that movie, it was a slap in the face. Juggernaught died running into a wall. The power of love killed pheonix..... wolverines love and Beast takes down magneto. i agree fox thinks we are all idiots who will pay to see whatever they make.
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dude, I havent read many X men comics (although I looooved the cartoon series) and while X3 was kinda watchable, it was just a damn mediocre film no matter what way you look at it. There was so much potential, not just in adapting stuff from the source material, but in basically following up the events presented in the first two. I mean, the Phoenix could have been a fantastic villain but she was totally totally wasted, killing cyclops was just a strange decision that didnt lend much to the drama of the over all story, and giving Rogue the cure was an abysmal idea. I mean the first two films delivered the message that people are who they are and no matter how bad your circumstances may be you should stay true to yourself, and they did this brilliantly through Rogue-she was basically the main character beside Wolverine in the first one after all. To build all this up and then have her go for the cure completely undoes all of Singers good work and brings the film directly into the realm of "just plain bad". There were good things in X3 (Ellen Page, as I said before,was the highlight for me)but you have to admit in logically following the narrative set down by the preceding films the thing shot itself in the foot. I dont blame ratner-I blame fox for fast tracking it. that was the death knell right there and they didnt treat the material with the care it deserved. Warners could have fast tracked TDK but they gave Nolan the time to make anoher film inbetween for Gods sake, and look at how well that turned out!
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I pretty much agree. When Cyclops died i kinda spent the rest of the flick waiting for him to re-appear. Yep, they built up Phoenix in the second one then wasted her. All your stated issues with the film are valid.But i guess the point of my post was that when X men 1 and 2 came out, 99% of the fans went apeshit over how good they were. When the 3rd came out and it wasn't that good, it seems people decided the whole series was shit. Hell, Terminator 3 was shit. But Terminator and T2 are still fucking awesome. I think the problem is that X3 was mediocre. Not complete shit. All the same actors were there, you could see the possibilities, so you sat there hoping that it would somehow magically be a lot better than it was. I think thats why its become so hated, and Ratner has been the whipping boy, when, as you say, the fault lies with Fox.It seems Cameron is the only director Fox won't fuck with.
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since they already made the second film twice. These movies suck. All of them. Good superhero stories require a certain intimacy that has been completely ignored by this franchise. Finally, we get a good old fashioned adventure without the Chris Claremont political soap opera.
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Justify your use of that word however you'd like, it still is only used by stupid people.
Moving on... -
So hopefully the means the new X-Men will be full of spuzz-guzzling slut teenagers
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FAGGOT DINNER
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Like it or not, the teen drama made X-Men unique, while Shiar, Brood, and Arcade made it like any other scifi, adventure superhero comic book. And I'm not talking about the Claremont 'Sprite' years that laid the foundation. I'm specifically thinking of issues of New Mutants, where Kitty Pryde gives a speech to the school about her reaction to a mutant friend who committed suicide over his mutancy. Or when she later tried to comfort Jubilee about Ilyana's death, to no avail. And this is resolved in an amazing scene between Jubilee and Xavier, ending with Jubilee helping Xavier from his chair so he can walk, leaning on her. The relationships are what brought me back to the series, the sense of the surrogate family - is it any wonder they were such an influence on Joss Whedon and his shows, and why he fit so well into that universe when he wrote it?
and speaking of Joss, Contintentaltop, you do know that the whole 'have you tried not being a mutant' is a direct lift from Buffy when Buffy's mom asks her if she's tried not being a slayer? That certainly was not about gay subtext. Now I'm saying that Singer's films had no gay subtext. They're full of it. But EVERY superhero story is loaded with gay subtext. The whole notion of a secret identity, dressing in costumes (drag), the list goes on. It all can be read as gay subtext. Where I disagree is the notion that Singer's films foreclosed any other possible interpretation. X-Men are about alienation, pure and simple. And your family can reject you for having different beliefs about anything, not just about gay identity. Hell, when I was a teen I felt misunderstood by my family because I listened to weird music and had friends with weird hair. I think many teens hear a variation of 'why can't you be normal?' Plus, you're also dealing with the notion of 'passing' - which is obviously a big deal in the history of race and ethnicity in this country. And I still call bullshit on the whole casting thing. Jackman may not fit the perfect comic vision of Wolvie, but having someone who is a good actor and very physical (like a Broadway musical actor has to be) is necessary for the role. Look at what happened when they tried to cast a wrestler as Sabretooth! And your whole notion that good-looking actors = gay is ridiculous. So if an actor is attractive, they must be trying to make me gay! (relax, I'm not saying this is your argument, but observations like yours have been used to make such arguments). Look at variations in comic art: you've got Frank Quitely's odd distorted figures in Morrison's run, and then you have the Greg Horn-style airbrushed supermodels in current X-Men runs. It's not a stretch to think super good-looking actors would play the roles. Especially since Singer's films were the beginning of the current superhero movies boom, of course they were going for good looking. At that point, who wanted to see unattractive superheroes? (though I argue they could have gone with even more supermodelly types with Jean Grey, Rogue, or Iceman). As I've said many times before, if Singer wasn't openly gay, people wouldn't be looking for ways to 'gay up' the movies, looking at every directorial choice through a gay lens. -
While I have not seen the episode of Buffy you have mentioned, and I do agree that all Super-Hero movies have a somewhat unintentional gay slant, I still stand by my opinion that the X-Men movies where predominately about being gay. Besides the Ice Man scen, which incidentally almost every reviewer commented on how it seems like a kid coming out to his parents, there is a number of other references to gay rights and issues: When I hear Senator Kelly say “Love the mutant but hate the mutation” in the Mutant Watch mockumentary, what am I to believe? Or when he is asked to explain his views that mutation doesn’t represent a natural phenomenon, Kelly responds “Evolution? Or aberration?” Or when Nightcrawler meets Mystique and asks her why she doesn’t use her powers to fit in with normal society? “Because”, she replies, “we shouldn’t have to.” Isn’t that commentary on “passing” and “staying in the closet”?
You don’t agree with my viewpoint, than maybe read the review of the X-Men movies in the Advocate, where they point out the massive amounts of gay subtext in the movie, or listen to Ian McKellan when he told an interviewer that Singer explicitly invoked the argument of gay rights when he pitched the role of Magneto to him. Or read Variety’s Justin Chang when he wrote that X3 (ironically not directed by a gay man) is even more explicit when equating mutation with homosexuality. Or maybe X-Men screenwriter Dan Harris when he was interviewed Filmfreakcentral.net where he explains the cultural shift of the X-Men being about race issues to becoming a metaphor more about sexual identity or orientation. Or maybe you should just read Willaim Earnest’s essay, “Making Gay Sense of the X-Men” where he spells it all out.
I do not see anything wrong with making a superhero movie as a metaphor for being gay and dealing with sexual orientation, and in fact you can make a movie that is exclusively about that. I just have a problem when they used the X-Men for that purpose, and EXCLUSIVELY for that purpose; any other subtext or suggestions of discrimination and alienation that could apply to other groups was just a coincidence or happened to be a element that shared similarities with other groups.
And I don’t blame or heat Singer for putting it in there. Like I said in an earlier post, you make films that are personal to you, that you feel connected to, so I would expect to find some themes in this movie that resonate with Singer. I would be more surprised if there was no gay subtext in this film when you consider that besides the director, the two screenwriters were gay as well. Of course, I have always found it amusing that the “gayest” X-Men movie was X3.
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I do NOT deny that gay subtext is all over the X-Men films, or deny that it may even be the predominant subtext. All of your evidence supports that and I agree with it. Besides, Singer was not the first person to use gay subtext in X-Men. It was well trodden territory before he ever got there. However, I adamantly disagree that it is the ONLY interpretation available. For instance, passing was a phenomenon among light-skinned African Americans for a long time before it was ever applied to gays. And so what if it's gay subtext? As I've already demonstrated, I could relate to my own adolescence, and I'm not gay. Hell, I could totally relate to Hedwig from Hedwig and the Angry Inch, and I'm not a transvestite glam rock star with a severed penis. The point is that the situation is still universal and can be applied to many, many different situations. Being gay is not the only way an individual can be at odds with his or her surrounding society.
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Let us be honest, oisin5199, we both just differ in opinion. You were able to look at the movie and apply the metaphor of mutants and mutation to your own life and experiences; I could only see it as a clumsy metaphor for sexuality. Does that mean one of us was wrong and the other one was right? Of course not. Film is a subjective medium, and we can only take out of a film what we bring in. Some films I can enjoy that others can’t because I can somehow relate to them and think it works for the story (I love Battle for the Planet of the Apes because I can see how it is commentary on American race relations at the time), while there are other films that everyone seems to enjoy save for me because of a philosophical difference (The Matrix for example; to me it is an al-Queda recruiting film). Sometimes I relate to a film because I see things that were unintended by the filmmaker (like Red Dawn, which I see as the American kids being recast as the Viet Cong and we get to see the flipside of Viet Nam).
In this occasion, I felt that the gay themes were too obvious and were distracting me from the story, while you could see the gay themes as applying to other discriminated groups. Neither one of us is right nor wrong.
I will say, however, that the reason I brought it up to begin with is that I felt that it hurt the X-Men movies because a number of the audience, such as myself, felt disconnected to the material. Obviously, I have no way to prove that, or to prove the opposite, unless I did some sort of massive poll, but that it how I feel. I don’t think of myself homophobe or intolerant, but I do believe in being honest enough to say that sometimes I cannot relate to a character in a movie because of sexual orientation, racial issues or a completely alien experience (movies about mother’s losing their kids do nothing for me). And their are many people out their like me, whether people like that fact or not. Of course, there are those films that take the experience of someone I normally would not relate to (Hedwig and the Angry Inch for you, Brokeback Mountain for me), and make me see the similarity between their characters and their experiences and my own. The X-Men series was not one of them for me.
I will add, so we can close this argument on more agreeable terms that teen angst has long been with the X-Men. I mean, just look at the original team, the entire mutant thing back in the 60’s was just teen angst and the generation gap writ large. Although I don’t think teen angst was the number one issue in the best X-Men stories: to me it was always about intolerance and learning and learning to over come prejudice against those different from the rest (“…protect those who hate and fear them,”). -
Well obviously you must be a faggot if you keep getting offended by it. Silly stupid.
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when's that wolf man movie coming out?
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weird way of moving on...
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just say that we agree to disagree. That we both have our subjective experiences. You obviously fixated on the 'gay thing' so much that you couldn't enjoy the films, whereas I saw it as a potent, easily universalizable metaphor that lent to the immediacy and relevance of the genre. Really, the main thing I was calling you out on was saying that there was only ONE way to interpret the film.
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