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Showrunners At Screenwriter Event Talk Secrets Of LOST!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“Lost” showrunners Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof spoke Saturday at Creative Screenwriting's 2008 Screenwriting Expo.
“Did they always have a plan for the show or are they just making it up as they go along” is a question often posed in fandom, and we learn again from the Saturday panel that the answer is “both.”
It sounds like a lot of the show’s broader direction wasn’t decided upon until Cuse joined the show for episode nine.
From IGN.com:
Asked if they know the answers to all the questions they raise on the show right away or sometimes figure it out as they go along, the duo said it was a combination of the two. Lindelof recalled how the entire pilot was put together – including writing, casting and production – in 12 weeks, which didn't allow much time to come up with any long-term mythology. However, once the series was given a full season order, beyond the initial 12 episode order it received, Cuse said he and Lindelof sat down and discussed, "What the overall mythological underpinnings of the show would be. We quickly landed on the ending, and then constructed this broader road map of other mythological points we'd hit on this story."
Discussing the flashbacks on the series, Cuse said it was really exciting in the first year, answering the question, "Who are these guys?", as the flashbacks could reveal big surprises about the character and their history. However, Cuse said eventually the problem became, "There's only so many revelatory flashbacks," and that by the time you get to flashbacks answering, "'Why does Jack have tattoos' and 'Why does Desmond call everyone brother', it's a fairly good illustration that these flashbacks were running out of steam"
The duo stressed that while they have introduced time travel and flash-forwards into Lost, they've firmly decided to never do a paradox story, with Cuse saying, "It's not like Heroes," where the future is always something that can be prevented or changed, but in fact on Lost, "There's nothing you can do to stop it from happening, and the more you try to stop it, the more potential there is for you to be the cause [of that future event]."
From spoilerslost.blogspot.com:
In the pilot when they introduced the polar bear, they knew that a group of people had brought it to the island for experiments, but they did not decide who these people specifically were until shortly after Carlton joined Lost for "Solitary" when he and Damon had a discussion about all the big mysteries that did not have answers yet. For example, Damon already knew what the monster and the island were, but they talked about question such as, what if the group of people is called the Dharma Initiative? What if the characters get off the island before the end because the audience would totally not expect that? What if the series becomes about the characters getting back together on the island at the end of the show? What is the final episode of the show? What is in the Hatch that is soon to be introduced?
They acknowledged that they stalled in the third season because they did not have an ending, pointed specifically to "Claire strapping a message to a frigging bird's foot!"
Originally, a flashback story was written and shot for Sawyer in "Adrift", in which Sawyer goes to Florida and falls in love with Jolene Blalock's character, who he is conning, but it was apparently was absolutely horrible so they got rid of it.
Other interesting tidbits:
* Ben Linus was originally only to appear in three episodes.
* Before Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje decided he didn’t like Hawaii, the original plan was for Eko to challenge Locke “for the spiritual leadership of the castaways.”
* Cuse seems more connected to the production in Hawaii than Lindelof. (On my visit to Oahu between the first two seasons, Lindelof told me he was looking forward to catching up with the cast members, whom he hadn’t seen since the pilot.)
* James Ford was named after Harrison Ford.
* Patrick Fischler, who plays comic Jimmy Barrett on “Mad Men,” will be in season five.
* Paul Zbyszewski (“Day Break”) and Melinda Hsu Taylor (“Medium”) have joined the writing staff.
* Drew Goddard has apparently left the show’s writing staff to direct “Cabin in the Woods,” the movie he wrote with Joss Whedon.
* 10 of the 17 season-five episodes have been written.
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Disaster! I've not seen Day Break or Medium, so I don't know what these guys are like, but they'd have to be pretty special to replace Goddard. I'm bummed out now.
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But gotta wait till January, the bastards!
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And first!
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Sadness.
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bitches
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I mean he's off doing his own thing, so much congratulations to him, but he wrote one of the best episodes of season 4 ("The Shape of Things to Come").
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I'm laughing so hard. So they knew where they were going, but they stalled in Season III anyway because they had no ending? And Claire tying a note to a bird was written in with no possible pay-off intended? Outstanding.
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I feel like they've already discussed a lot of these issues on the DVD extras of the previous seasons. Nearly (if not all) TV shows begin life as brief sketches before turning into full-fledged ideas. The difference with LOST is that NOW they have a definitive end time, so they now how to wrap up the story.The biggest difference I see with LOST is that it seems that they started very early deciding how it would end, even if they weren't sure how long they would have to get there.Meanwhile, on HEROES, they had this fantastic idea for the first season, that there would be a revolving cast of characters each season. But, once the show became a hit, they scrapped that idea so we could see how one dimensional many of those characters really were.But, anyway... I'm anxiously excited for LOST and thrilled that they've had time to work and adapt the story in such a bad-ass way.
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Yeah, the studio wouldn't let them end the show and they were running out of ways to tread water. Uh... gut-bustingly hilarious. You wouldn't happen to be Chilli, would you?
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Yep. That's me. And I'm sure you'll go 'oh, you hater', but I don't want to dislike the show. I want to like it like I did in S1, but articles like this don't exactly help matters. And as the shows shifts in 'seismic factor' every season, why not just ditch the weekly flashbacks in S3 and save them for special occassions? They have enough characters who needed screentime desperately to pull that off.
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A self-revolving cast on Heroes would've been interesting, but bombed. People like familiarity with characters.
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I've got nothing against "haters" per se; if there's things that you wanted the show to be that it's not, that's your thing and it's not my place to tell you that you're wrong. It just always seems to me like you have this weird sort of grudge/agenda going on, so the "laughing" at the writers for having problems breaking stories at the tail-end of season 3 (which I don't see how eliminating the flashbacks would have resolved) kind of creeps me out.
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Did any of us really think tehy had it all planned out perfectly? Of course they were making some stuff up as they went along. I can forgive them for treading water in season 3 (it was pretty obvious when jack/kate/sawyer were all kidnapped...for literally no reason at all) becasuse they managed to pull there shit together for the last few episodes giving us some of the best lost episodes. And then the obviously awesome season 5.
real shame they had to kill off eko would have loved to see that storyline play out with locke, you could definatly see them laying the seeds for it earlier on. -
If it comes across that way, I apologise. I think the show is a mix of brilliance and incoherence, but when it is good there's little better.
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So whatever happens Locke will still die then?
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Everybody who ever said, "They're making this shit up as they go along." Well done.
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People may like familiarity with characters... but HEROES is shedding viewers regardless. I'm not making a judgment call, I'm just stating fact. LOST has dipped in the ratings too -- like nearly every show post-writer's strike -- but nowhere near the free-fall that has been HEROES this season.IMO, they could get rid of at least *SOME* of the HEROES no one cares about now (or ever).And by that, I mostly mean Mohinder and Ali "What is her character's name these days" Larter (and maybe Matt Parkman if they leave him in Africa all season long...).
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but at least they still have Brian K Vaughn.
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although Goddard wrote two of the best season 4 episodes (and one of the best season 3 eps: the Linus flashback), he also wrote one of the weakest season 4 eps: 'The Other Woman', which had some of the most anodyne flashback material yet.
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even if they didn't want to admit it here. The good thing is that Lost rebounded and cranked out some fine TV. Now it's up to 24, the Masters of Making Shit Up, to do the same.Speaking of Heroes, has Herc let up on his smackdown and not put up a TB for this week?
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...well, you get the idea.
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"My name is Benjamin Linus. I turned a wheel on the island and woke up in 1973. Am I mad, in a coma or back in time? Okay, I'm back in time, but it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home..."
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I swear it's incredibly frustrating to read these talkbacks sometimes. Of COURSE they were making some things up as they went along. That's the organic nature of the TV show. What they said was that once they knew there was going to be a full season (because why come up with a complicated, long term mythology if you're only going to have 9 episodes?) they started to flesh out an actual long-term outline. And in previous interviews they've said they don't ask questions unless they know the answer to them already. So to me, they seem to be ahead of the game of most serialized TV shows, most specifically to me, Alias. I loved Alias for the first couple of seasons until it became realized that this Rambaldi stuff was nothing more than a giant MacGuffin with no real payoff. And anyone who hasn't watched the TED presentation with JJ Abrams should do so immediately and you'll become instantly informed of how that man cares absolutely zilch for answers. He's all about the interesting questions.
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No point in naysayers entering smug mode until the end, if it turns out that the important stuff has definitely been pulled out their asses ad hoc.Even if that turns out to be the case, the retort will just chage from "they're only making up SOME stuff as they go along, like some character deaths etc" to "WHO THE FUCK CARES? That FUCKING ROCKED!". And yes, if you hadn't guessed, I can adhere firmly to both responses.
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...They're making it up as they go along. Yawn.
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The meeting went like this:"Shit boys, this pilot's really taken off! What can we do? We haven't written enough material for a long run?""No sweat, Bro - let's just write a stream-of-consciousness run of flashbacks for each character, and when we run out of ideas, we'll just toss some new characters in and run with them!""Erm...'new' characters? They're marooned on an island, dude. The viewers will never fall for that!""It's ok - we'll just have flash forwards as well as flashbacks! They'll be too busy trying to work out the overall plot that they won't realize there isn't any!"Genius! Now what about that polar bear?""Shh!"
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Nov 17, 2008 8:35:20 AM CST
'Monk' calls it a day. Now maybe somebody beside Tony Shalhoub
by pennsy
will win an emmy for Best Comedy Series Actor for a change. http://tinyurl.com/6zz5az
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Ok, I have had this theory simmering in me for quite a while. As far as moving the island, I agree with the theories about it moving 'in time' and not space. Wouldn't it be a kick if the people from 815 still left on the island are the same people who convince young Ben to turn on the Dharma Initiative (who now discover this amazing island sometime in the early 60's?)
As far as the whole 'reason' for the series, what if Ben knew all along about some cataclysm that will effect the Earth, and that the island is the only place immune from the disaster because it exists in a weird type of space/time. Makes his desire to help ladies have healthy babies a lot more logical. The conclusion of the series is that the island is an ark for humanity against some kind of (ecological?) disaster that will destroy the Earth. It's Eden all over again and Ben knew it all along. -
..."Not answers." That might be fine for a philosophical treatise on the nature of perception, but it makes for shitty NARRATIVE STORYTELLING.
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...why people keep eating up the shit this show serves continues to astound me.
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are sick. No television show has ever had its entire run planned out from the beginning, get a fucking grip people, it just doesn't work that way. They figured out an ending, and plotted a roadmap for how to generally get there. You think they would even want to work on a show where every detail is planned from the start? Where's the creativity, fun, and excitement week to week in that? And not only that, but its completely unprecedented to have a show that came to an arrangement with its network to let the show end on the creators terms. I forgive them for meandering a little in S3 because they didn't know when they were gonna be allowed to end the show. Literally, the week the accouncement was made that they had were allowed to end the show after S6, that week, the episodes starting getting awesome again. You nitpicking little bitches lvoe to hate because "they don't have a plan." They have a plan, they don't have a play-by-play book of every moment. Get over it. And as far as "Jack Kate and Sawyer being taken for no reason" BULLSHIT. They were taken because Ben had a tumor and it was all part of a huge plan to get Jack to WANT to fix him. Not to make Jack fix him, to make him WANT to fix him. Just because the plan didn't go how Ben wanted to doesn't mean they were taken for no reason. You're all such pathetic assholes. If you hate them so much for not "having a plan" go watch something else, because we all know whatever that show is, it isn't nearly as good as Lost, and it definitely doesn't have a plan or end date either you stupid fucks.
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Since you posted while I was typing, I'd like to know what "shit" they "served" in S4? Since S4 is the first full season since the announced deal to have an ending, I'd like to know how you think they fucked up in S4. DId you even watch it? Or are you still stuck on S2 with all the other whiney malcontents who gave up so early you couldn't possibly have a valid argument? I call people like you members of "The Bewildered Herd"
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How often have they established a small detail in an early season that had a big payoff later down the road? And if they never came up with the concept for the Dharma Initiative when they did the pilot, then why was the Dharma logo on the plane in the pilot? They keep getting asked this question, and they change their answers to throw the media a bone. No doubt the show changes, and plans change, but obviously they had some roadmap for the future given the payoffs we've already seen. Anyone who claims they make it all up as they go along is an idiot or a troll. Why should we feed either?
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when most writers write novels, they usually don't know exactly what's going to happen in each chapter until they actually sit down and start writing it. This is why novels take months to years to write, instead of 2 days. And most times, once you actually sit down and start writing something, you get new ideas as the creative process goes on, plot elements evolve, etc to the point where the content you actually commit to paper can be drastically different than your rough outline. I'm not sure why people would expect or assume TV writing would be any different. Or why they would act like these things that are inherent to any writing process are somehow flaws on the showrunner's part.
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Agreed. I like questions, too. But I haven't watched Fringe because I don't believe Abrams can deliver answers.
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Don't even bother trying to figure out the whiner's justification for their complaints. It still amazes me that trolls on this site have to criticize anything that doesn't meet their limited expectations. And to add to your "This just In'... IT'S JUST TV ENTERTAINMENT PEOPLE. You don't have to like it or even watch it, and you're constant slamming of it does nothing to invalidate other people's enjoyment. For God's sake, find something else in life to make you happy and quit raining on our parade!
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until the new Heroes TB is posted and he can whine to Herc for once again pointing out that show's glaring incongruity.
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... is how may people come around posting in Lost TBs that don't like the show. It's perverse, at the very least.
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Is the statement from Akelewadie...err let's just call him Ecko, where he said he didn't like Hawaii? Huh? Who doesn't like paradise on Earth, man that whack! It's also dissapointing because that arc with Ecko challenging Locke sounded sweet. Seriously, if you knew you were going off to shoot a serial in a foreign place, don't you think you would decide if you liked it or not, BEFORE you committed?
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Nov 17, 2008 11:28:34 AM CST
I fully believe and support that they have things planned...
by danielkurland
but I still don't know how that makes sense when they keep saying Ben was only planned for 3 episodes, and is such an integral part of not only the island's history, but what is currently going on on the island and everyone's lives.
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I would guess that Adewale didn't like Hawaii not so much because of the gorgeous scenery and weather, but because he was basically cut off from everybody but the people who he was doing the show with for an indefinite period of time (and being a newbie probably didn't help that whole dynamic either). Try to picture it like someone spending a semester abroad, or joining the Peace Corps. Some people get there and freak out immediately, even though they signed up in the first place. I don't know whether he's a "douche" or anything; I mean I've heard rumors that there were arguments on set, but I would never blame him for not being able to handle that kind of environment. It's just not for everybody. For what it's worth, he delivered one of the best performances on the show before or since, and should've been nominated for it.
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Often during the creative process you mold and merge characters, or you take one characters backstory and apply it to a different character. My guess? Ben was really going to be just the little loser who lead the Losties into the arms of the Others and then there was a new leader who would take over from there. However once they got a chance to see how cool and creepy Ben's character was, they decided to make him the leader and keep him around. So the main points of his story could have existed with someone else, for example, remember when it seemed that Mr. Friendly was the real leader? All they did was take the story elements of Mr. X and then twist them to work within the story of a creepy loner named Ben Linus, and viola, you have this quirky dude with a dramatic story arc that makes him integral to the entire framework of the show.
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"Ben" was not supposed to initially be "Ben". He was originally written as a captured Other that would then end up leading the Losties to his "leader". When Michael Emerson gave such a great performance as "Henry Gail", they decided to just eliminate Henry by transforming him into Ben.
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I was sort of kidding. Its just the article made it seem that he didn't like Hawaii, vs. not getting along with the staff or the crew. That is a pretty common issue. But again, it is too bad cause he was such an awesome actor and so incredible in his role. My only complaint was the episode when they killed him. In one quick sentence they totally robbed him of all his earlier motivation and betrayed the conflict that had existed in him since his youth. His whole "I ask for no forgiveness" was so trite and weak, IMO, that it pissed me off they would do that given how distraught he had been prior.
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I don't mind taking shit for an opinion I actually gave but I think you should check your sources on your comment
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...maybe, Crow, maybe.But here's the thing. I watched and enjoyed 'Lost' for a season and a half before I realised that they genuinely had no idea where they were going with it. I realized then that I could either carry on putting up with this lazy screenwriting - having my cock teased every week with no money-shot ever to look forward to - or I could realize that I'd been had and spend my time elsewhere.The fact that you KNOW this is how they've played you as a viewer, and yet continue to pander to it, is sad. I'm angry on your behalf, dude.And Smackfu, meCPS and good old Thunderbolt - the reason people like me still troll the 'Lost' talkbacks is that, because of that anger. Because there was that amazing, gripping first season, we trolls know that there was a fantastic show in there somewhere and that it was frittered away by intelligence-insulting, pedestrian writing.I'm on a mission to save you from yourselves, comrades! Turn off now and send 'em a message - that you won't put up with being spoon-fed garbage any more. Unless Evangeline Lilly gets her tits out, of course...
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...and all I can say is WOW. That season is entirely underrated! I am preparing to watch Season 4 on DVD (coming soon) and then dive head first into Season 5!LOST is, by far, the best show on television right now. In fact, I might just think that it is the best complete serial drama...ever.
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Maybe you need things that cater to shorter attention spans...like Barack Obama and Family Guy? Me? I'll stick with LOST. You can save yourself the trouble.
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... that the "Lost" creators have a plan that's more akin to a tree diagram than a fully fleshed-out linear story. The show seems to be driven by the premise, unique design elements, and strengths of the characters. I'll confess to never quite "getting" the interest in "Heroes," though I suspect that the audience overlap may be smaller than many people think. Some of the early "Heroes" characters were so stereotypical (the blonde cheerleader, the Black male convict) that a huge portion of the genre audience never tuned in. The other problem was that the premise was somewhat familiar... which gave some genre fans limited tolerance for the show. Whatever the case may be, the "Lost" creators have something that's working (on a number of different levels), even though I'd prefer they commit to *making* some of the Season 3 storylines relevant to the larger narrative, as opposed to simply writing them off. We may never know if there are other reasons for the way they've dismissed some of those prior episodes.
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... college professors (such as Pres. Elect Obama) aren't usually short-attention span oriented. Whatever your issue here, I politely ask that you please leave the politics out. Especially when they don't apply.
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Originally, a flashback story was written and shot for Sawyer "'Adrift,' in which Sawyer goes to Florida and falls in love with Jolene Blalock's character, who he is conning, but it was apparently was absolutely horrible so they got rid of it."
So, they 86'd this BUT left in the absolutely ludicrous 'Origin of Jack's Tattoos' episode? What, because Matthew Fox have them by the balls or something? That episode was the worst, by far, and I can't believe anything centered around the extremely entertaining Sawyer could be worse. Hell, 2/3 of the Kate-centric stories have been boring as hell = why didn't they throw one of them out and center an extra story around Sawyer, or Desmond, or Jin and Sun? The way these guys operate is completely baffling to me, but it's obvious this hit-and-miss-and-hit-and-miss routine has affected the show's quality (and ratings). -
So explain to me the big "cock-teases" that never had pay off? When you go back to the 1st season and half, which is where you said you stopped, a lot of those questions have since been answered: Why was there a polar bear? - Answered.Who was on the radio with Boone? - Answered. How did the plane crash, or why? - Answered. What was the hatch? - Answered. Who are the others? - Answered. What was the Dharma initiative? - Answered. I could go on and on. Now if you come back at me and say, "oh yeah, but what is Island? And what is the monster all about, huh? HUH?" Then you have proven you are a dickless shit with no discernable intelligence, as those are major questions yet to be answered by the end of the show, which is coming in two seasons, so calm the hell down.
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In looking at all the responses, I know exactly why trolls like Biggus Dickus is here. It isn't this so-called anger, its cause so many of us give her attention which is exactly what she wants. She feverishly hopes that her inane comments will be argued with, so that she can click refresh over and over again and see her "hillarious" name referenced. And we all played her game, and that sucks. Well played Sally, well played.
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...that's six answers! Over, what, five, six seasons? You really think sitting throught twenty-odd hours of filler for one treat a season is a reasonable return on your time and intellectual investment?There, now that's off my chest I can go and search for my missing dick...
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I am asking you: Outside of the Island and The Monster, give me a mystery or question that came up in the first 1 1/2 season(s) that has yet to be touched on? And anyway, if your whole reason for watching a show is to make sure that every question has a neat little answer tied up in a pretty bow by the end of the show, then go watch CSI Miami or some shit like that. The greatness of a show like LOST is in the journey, not necessarily these amazing answers. Answers to the questions are pretty boring narrative, relatively speaking, unless you care so much about what is happening to these people that you wade through their lives, stories, and experiences to understand them better. Stephen King made the point in his Dark Tower treatment, that if you only want to know what happens in the end, then you are someone who considers sex to be only the paltry squirt at the end, not the lovemaking that lead up to that drip of bisquick from your tool.
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But be honest - every time a new character popped up, didn't you find yourself thinking 'Ah, no! Who the fuck is this now?'Anyway, be a sport and tell me WTF a polar bear was doing on a tropical island, eh?
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I have to wonder if you applied this same logic to other franchises or experiences, and what was your outcome? Did you read the first 100 pages of The Fellowship of the Ring and say, "ahh fer God's sake, what is this ring nonsense, why does it make you dissapear, where did it come from, who are these black riders, why did Bilbo leave, where did he go? You mean there is a 1000 more pages to wade through?DAMN Tolkien, what the hell!?!? Stop teasing me with all these mysteries, just tell me if Frodo destroys the ring or not, I can't wait through the rest of this book plus two others, its just way too much! What a cocktease, this idiot had no idea where he was going or what he was doing, he was just meandering through a story about elves and wizards and shit, what a crock!"
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Was part of the animal testing that the Dharma initiative was engaged in. The Dharma group was essentially a team of hippie scientist who discovered the island and its "incredible" properties and set up camp to study everything about it. This included psychological studies, paranormal activities, zoological studies, etc. etc. The polar bears were being tested with a series of conditioning testing. So we know how they go there. As to why polar bears, many have theorized that they were being taught to "push a button" so that they could be used to enter into the ice cave a push the button or pull the lever that essentially "moves" the island, since it requires that the individual who does this be transported from the island, never to return again. We saw proof of this in the polar bear skeletons found in Tunisia by C.S. Lewis (Charlotte). So there you go. Now if you haven't seen any of seasons 3-4, you most likely have no idea what I am talking about, oh well.
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Nov 17, 2008 12:28:08 PM CST
Others from supermen to ginormous pussy fags, litteraly.
by evilwizardglick
Will someone ever explain how the others devolved from damn near unkillable superbeings to literally pussy homosexuals?
<p. I think that pisses me off the most. -
www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Polar_bear
Pretty simple. -
I always thought the black kids giant polar bear was a construct of his mind. I thought the dog was also. It seemed suggested when his father came to collect him after his mother dies.
That was what made him so special to the others.
I was disgusted when they devolved his character into now a shadow in the window. -
Sounds vey complicated, though. What you're saying seems to show you need to stay watching through good and bad with 'Lost'. Me, I just didn't have the staying power.I genuinely hope the show resolves in a satisfying way for you and the fans, though. Peace.
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Walt has the ability to draw the animals to him. Like the bird flying against the window. So the Polar bear is already on the island because of Dharma, but it was drawn to the group because of Walt. Yeah, I'm a bit dissapointed they haven't done more with Walt, but hopefully he'll play a bigger part before the end
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Walt is back this season dude. His arc is hardly finished.
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Nov 17, 2008 12:36:32 PM CST
Others were supermen/near-unkillable superbeings? SINCE WHEN!?
by turketron
What in the fuck? The only thing close to this description is Ethan, who was a badass when he was doing his whole infiltration thing, but he died, as did a whole shit load of others over the course of season 2. Remember when they attacked during The Other 48 Days? Eko fucked a couple of them up way back then. When were they ever supermen?
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Close to being a superman. That little bastardis a monster with that extendable baton...
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"I genuinely hope the show resolves in a satisfying way for you and the fans, though. Peace." Could have fooled me.
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I am trying to remember, when were the Others "unkillable supermen?" Are you referring to Ethan? Yeah, he was able to kick Jack's and Charlie's ass, but keep in mind he was living in the Other's barracks, eating regularly, and probably in pretty good shape. Where as Charlie and Jack were essentially starving due to their survivor type existence. But were there other examples of the Others being superhuman? I am not being sarcastic, I am asking?
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He was pretty badass... surviving the sonic fence and doing all the other crazy shit he did in Season 3...
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Back in Season 2 when we didn't know who the Others were, the show did lead us to believe they had some sort of mystical island power. Remember how they seemed to show up so quickly, how they could track the tailies, how they moved so quietly through the jungle, all barefoot and creepy like? Then again, this is also due to the perception of the Lost folk, they were barely surviving, and these people knew the island like the back of their hands, and so that would give the perception that the were more powerfull than they actually were. This is part of how LOST works, you see something one way, then you realize you are seeing the truth from another perspective, sort of a Rashomon effect played out over the multiple seasons. Pretty cool if you ask me.
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Yeah, but I think we all recognized that he survived because of the Island's healing properties. It wasn't Mikhail that was so badass, it was the Island healing him.
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Too bad you couldn't say the same thing during this last election. AICN turned into an Obama-humping station. That being said: I am excited about the end of January. We have a lot to look forward to, at least in regard to LOST. ;-)
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Of course he could kick ass. And they explained his surviving the fence due it be on a low setting combined with the island's healing ability. As for the harpoon. Obviously it was a mortal, but not immedialty halting wound, since he decided to kamikaze Charlie with the grenade. The Others definitely have been trained to fight as evidenced by Ben, and Juliet, and the like, but callign them supermen is a bit stupid.
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No, really.It would be lousy for you to be suckered with a lame cop-out ending after sticking with it all this time, wouldn't it?
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And how to dance the Bat-Tusi.
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I actually really like the treading water. While I loved season 4 a lot I missed the character moments that was in the pervious seasons. Season 4 had character moments, but not as many.
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I ran into Darlton at Comic-Con and asked them about Ethan's fight with Jack in season 1 and if he had superpowers from the island or if he was just a really good fighter. They said that he was a really good fighter and that the Others had special training for everyone that joined them. Thats why Ethan, Mikail, Juliet, etc could all beat the crap out of Jack, Sayid & Kate.
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Well, retrospectively, all lost fans no doubt will name 'Stranger in a Strange Land' as the worst episode ever for one reason: Bai Ling. Nikki and Paulo? Well, I'll just say, it was pure torture seeing them attempt integration into the cast, but no more rewarding than seeing them buried alive. Claire...goth girl? Jack's sister? Birds? That was a little convoluted...but her relationship with Charlie was truly heart tugging. And his demise, well...things of genius. But let's remember the great amazing progression that season 3 gave us. First...New Otherton, whose reveal was the most revelatory season opener of the series. Locke thrown out a window...amazing. Desmond joining the cast...brilliant. Plus, Tom, Danny, Richard, Juliet...Mikael! or more bluntly revealing that the 'others' might not be bad guys afterall. Season three may have been 'stalling' but damn good job of treading water guys, and season 4 was the ultimate answer to season 3. The show does seem to have started a trend of making not only an overarching storyline for the entire series, but each season's focus is also a single arch, and more so, it seems that the show paired the seasons, meaning seasons 1 + 2 seem like one book: Finding out who these damn others are and what the hell is going on. Season 3 + 4 also seem similarly paired, being with said knowledge, how the hell can these guys get off the island? And seasons 5 + 6? Seem destined to be the journey back. I'm just giddy. Each passing day brings Lost closer. Jan. 21 can't come soon enough. And Heroes blows. So does Fringe. Yeah I said it.
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no, not Superman, but certainly they seem to have some pretty smart moves for a bunch of scientists and the like.
just look at how many have pulled Bourne-like shit: Ethan, Mikhail, Ben, Juliet. yeah, Mikhail is ex-military. but Ethan? the guy's a scientist. Ben's a weed and Juliet was a frakking weepy geneticist. three years on the island and somehow she's got mad skills?
between that and the stuff that Mel Gibsteinberg says, showing the Others as having the ability to move silently, track the Losties, turn up out of nowhere, etc, it's not hard to wonder about their abilities.
i mean, if some of them don't seem to have aged a day in thirty years, how improbable is it that something else is at work with their fighting skills? if the explanation is just "they took some really good self-defence classes", then i'm gonna call laame.
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Man theres a lot of awsome episodes in season 3. I read that some of the planned stuff for Eko was given to another character. Im guessing that storyline of being Lockes spiritaul rival was given in part to Ben.
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Or to Jack. Remember in S4 how Locke lead some to New Otherton while Jack lead the rest to the beach for rescue. I don't know where Ecko would have fit in there, but it does seem like the elements of struggle for leadership were clearely there.
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If you truly are saying, "well if it works for you, go enjoy in peace." Then why do you consistantly show up to decry a show that by your own admition, you gave up on long ago?Why do you care, why do you troll? I think you know as well as I that it is because you don't think we should go on in peace, you think we and anyone else who enjoy LOST are wrong and should go away and shut the F up! Which means you are subject to being proven wrong whenever you err in your argument, as you did by saying the show provided no answers. That is all.
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It's hard, I know. But, please, everyone try a little harder. ;) One of the keys is to make up your mind about what it says AFTER you read it, not before.
Everyone does understand how silly it would be to plan out every detail in a show that lasts an indeterminate amount of years with no idea what actors will be able to stay around or what characters will gain that unexpected "it" factor, right? Good.
Oh, and I don't know if someone else answered to this one, but to the person that said jack/kate/sawyer were kidnapped for absolutely no reason: If you can't comprehend basic storytelling, please don't comment on it, unless you simply say, "I can't comprehend basic storytelling." Thank you.
Also, I apologize for the snarkiness, I'm over it now. Sometimes the talkbacks get to me. It's sad, really. -
this is someone who watches tv for his cock. He's upset at cock teases and is waiting for his money shot. If you watch episodic television the same way you watch porn, then I suspect you're going to be pretty angry most of the time. So really, why bother? Just keep it on the XXX channel.
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... in prior talkbacks with Barack Obama, Sarah Palin or John McCain in their title, it comes as no wonder that politics were discussed (though many questioned whether such discussions belong on AICN). Your illogical analogy--- which you somehow tried to associate with "Lost"--- is about as far-detached from those discussions as possible. *That* being said, I'm like the majority of voting US citizens, and am looking forward to the week that "Lost" will be back on the air.
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You're right. You guys love it, I don't. End of. I promise I will never post on another 'Lost' talkback again. But honestly, I really hope for your sakes it all resolves successfully. I don't think it will though. I think when the interest wanes enough they'll cobble together a rushed ending that'll have you guys flaming from now 'til Doomsday. Ah well, I could care less...Off now to watch porn as it's all my limited attention span can handle. Can you recommend any good ones, Oisin?
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The Dharma Logo WASN'T on the plane in the Pilot. They just said up above they didn't think about Dharma till Cuse joined in 1x09.
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He didn't survive the fence. Mikhail died. Just like he died multiple times in the finale. The Island brought him back because It wanted Charlie dead. I wouldn't be surprised if Mikhail was in the party that lynched Charlie back in 111.
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Nov 17, 2008 2:30:32 PM CST
I don't understand why so many people think they are lying
by coughlins laws
when they say they know how the series is going to end. For something like this, they need to have an end point. Now it's true, they have to make up the details as they go along. As far as the whole Henry Gale/Ben thing only being a 3 episode arc, I believe that. They planned on him being an Other and letting him go. It's just that they liked Michael Emerson so much that they decided to make him the leader. It's true, alot of things they started ended in dead-ends. Especially all the character's they introduced in Season 2 that they decided to off. I'm glad Ana-Lucia got killed. The producers must have fallen in love with her because she's cute. But, the way the show used her she had a permanent scowl on her face that made her look ugly and very unlikable. That and her zero chemistry with Jack. And it's a shame we lost Mr. Ecko. I like his character. But, what a lot of people don't realize is that living in a place like Hawaii is tougher than it seems. It's akin to Cabin Fever. But, I just rewatched some of Season 2 and I'm not sure why they killed off Libby. They obviously had plans for her they didn't pursue. Did she get a DUI, too? And anyone who didn't like Nikki and Paolo, wasn't their flashback episode worth it? I liked seeing how the Island serves as a sort of St. Peter/Judge-Jury-Executioner like it did to them and Mr. Ecko...
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Biggus Dickuss is gone, forever and ever. Who's next? But like Jason, Freddy, Michael Myers, and Russian Eye-Patched wearing freak, Mikhail, can we ever be sure he is really gone? one wonders.
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was in relation to Ana Lucia. They felt the audience wouldn't be mad at Michael for Killing Ana Lucia because she became this hated character. So they killed Libby too so that people would hate Michael for that and not be happy he killed Ana.
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It gave us the most dead ends of any season, it seemed to flounder more than any other season, and the revelations of Seasons 3 and 4 make the revelations in 2 look weak and impotent. There just seemed to be too many "what ifs" that never materialized, and who knows why? If you ask me, Season 4 was near perfection. Season 1 obviously started it all off, and we needed the countless flashbacks to discover who these people were, but after that Season 2 sort of stalled because we didn't need to know that much more. Season 3 picked up a lot more, but still had some stalls, but by Season 4 we were rocking and rolling, with only a sliver of episodes that seemed weak or pointless, the Juliet one being the clear winner there. All I know is that with so much happening, I have high expectations for season 5 and can't wait for what is in store.
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Nov 17, 2008 2:40:24 PM CST
The one thing I don't buy, that I think they just changed
by coughlins laws
their minds on, was portraying the Others as savages. I think they changed their minds on this. It doesn't make sense why Mr. Friendly had to wear that beard. Why did they have to disguise themselves when they haven't seen any new people on the Island since the Dharma Purge? And, when did the guy in the Hatch that Desmond killed get there? When did he join the Dharma Initiative? Wiki-Lost says the purge happened in 1990. But, we know that he was involved in the first Gulf WAr which ended in 1991. So, who brought him there? Ben? That doesn't seem to make much sense, unless it adheres to the theory that time passes differently off the Island. But my biggest complaint happened in the Season 4 Finale. What happened to the island only 5 miles from the other Island? How come the helicopter never saw it? I don't even know why it was necessary to even introduce the second island.
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I hated the fact that Nikki and Paulo were dumped into one flashback episode. The characters weren't great, but I have to figure they had mileage for an episode a-piece, at least.
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If you ask me, I think this is what happened:End of season 1 they introduced the hatch, and we saw Mr. Friendly and the boat of Others cruse away on a decrepit POS with Walt. By the beginning of Season 2 we see that Dharma was a long lost experiment gone wrong, everything was dated and the remnants seemed to be living like savages. HOWEVER, something happened where they realized they wanted the Others to have contact with the outside world, they wanted to make them more powerfull and more connected, maybe they morphed who the Others were (savages) with who the Dharma group became (Mittelos Bio-Science) and Ben's little cult of science junkies and new age believers. So at that point then had to figure out a way to explain why the Others had been savage, and viola, they made the whole thing a scam, a rouse, with fake beards and tattered clothes. You knew they had been thinking this by the time they showed Mr. Friendly at the fire circle, all of a sudden his beard and eyebrows looked overly ridiculous. His eye shadow and lashes had people surmising the gay aspect for the first time, but there was definitely something fake there. The only support for thinking that they meant for them to always be "civilized" and not savages was Ethan. Ethan had access to semi-normal clothes, and he was taking Claire for some reason, and even back then you knew it had something to do with her baby. So how they tied all that up with Juliette and the fertility of women on the island, made a lot of sense.
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Nov 17, 2008 2:52:52 PM CST
The only thing I can figure out is that Ben moved both Islands
by coughlins laws
Yeah, I also think Season 2 was the low point. And sometimes I think they go way to out of their way to explain thinngs that I'm nervous about the ending of the series. Was it really necessary to tell us how Jack got his tatoos or the guy in the Hatch with Desmond painted with invisible ink that map that Locke saw? Who was he keeping that map on the wall a secret from? And if that guy knew it was BS having to be in a HAZMAT suit, why was he going out in it before he saw Desmond? And my biggest question of the series so far is, just how many jobs did John Locke have before coming to the Island? They mad it seem in Walkabout that he was an office drone for years. Not to mention that Ben says he spent a large part of his life in a Box Company. Then we find out that he's worked at Toy R Us, was a building inspector, and he helped grow pot. I just hope they don't show any more jobs.
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I had two problems with S2. The first was that it took Desmond ages to sync the dates between failing to enter the code and the crash... and the second was that Desmond stole the drugs they were taking, that he knew were placebos, and ran off into the Jungle with them... but they never mention it. But then Eko was in S2, and Eko is awesome... so I can push past those two flaws.
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Has anyone noticed that Locke rhymes with cock!
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Remember he was paralyzed for 4 years prior to the crash. I imagine he wasn't going on many wild adventures during those times...
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... usually you're head over heels in love with S1; I on the other hand didn't really get enthusiastic about the show till S2. Though I like the mystery surrounding S1, I like better where they went with it and how cool the pieces were once they started getting filled in. Also, I know that mysterious vibe is extremely transitory and if you get too into it, by definition it's going to leave you feeling bereft - as evidenced by you sad sack S1 slaves ...
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There definitely seems to be a trend of some of the answers being ham fisted, and simply a means to wrap everything up. Especially when they build it up as something so huge, and it turns out to be nothing. But those are more rare occurences if you ask me. The show is not perfect, there have definitely been some "are you serious?!?" moments, like the time that Paulo was in the Pearl hatch and Ben brings Juliet all the way down there just to show off Jack and reveal a part of his plan. Why not go to Mikhail's, didn't he have full video access? Also remember the rocks that Sawyer and Kate were smashing at the beginning of Season 3, what happened there? Supposedly they were building an air strip, and it was referenced in a deleted scene, but one has to ask how does a plane land on an island with the time vortex swirling around it? Also remember how it seemed like such a mystery as to what happened with the children and those who were "taken" because they were "good" people? What happened to them, we know they ended up with the Others, but what did the Others show them to keep them in line? What did they show them that they could cure cancer and some other neat tricks, and Cindy the stewardess was like "Crikey, that's a bloomin' good magic act, I'm on board fah sure! When do I get my tattered clothing and a weapon?"
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To illustrate how hapless the plight is of the anti-Lost missionaries - trying to convince others the show stinks.
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You didn't get into it till S2? Seriously? 1x16 - 1x19 is flawless TV.
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Yep. Saying 'this show sucks' is as bad as saying 'this show rocks and you suck for not enjoying it.' If you don't like the show, fine. Don't comment. If you like it, fine. Comment and ignore people ripping into it.
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Out of love for the show. Even Darlton has admitted missteps and areas where they "stalled" But the point is none of these things have overwhelmed the show, like it has with Heroes. So ultimately I am happy. What pisses me off with the anti-LOST proselytites is there need to point out the obvious flaws, as reason for why the entire show is crap.Those of the faith can have inhouse debates as to some of the show's more problematic elements. Those who just want to bash it, to prove they are the kings of the Snarky Cock-Breath Award can keep their cum stained teeth hidden behind their shit smeered lips and shut the hell up!
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Word. Then again, it's a contradiction considering how many people rip into Heroes AND those who watch it (such as myself.)
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Nov 17, 2008 3:13:06 PM CST
Well, the toughest thing about Locke is it's hard to judge
by coughlins laws
his age in the flashbacks. They give him a badly receding hairline in the episode he meets his Dad. How old do you think he is there? He does look like he could've already been working at the Box Company when he was thrown out the window. He was already down and out, there. But, didn't Ben say that he worked "the better part of his life at a Box Company"? He couldn't have been talking about just 4 years, could he?
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He could, actually. Locke lost all of his faith when he took that job, so perhaps it's more that he stopped living there.
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I always thought that the weed grower flashback was one of those that betrayed his character. Locke was always meant to be a tragic character, but that was just plain dumb. First it shows him in a family, where he is accepted and such. It just seemed to revolutionary for a man who was more about reading about life experiences rather than actually taking the risk of living them out. Secondly he is so damn dumb in that episode, he never suspects his "family" are liars and a-hole drug dealers? He actually believed their "all for one and one for all" sense of community, while they were reaping the benefits of selling massive amounts of dope? C'mon, John was supposed to be smarter than that. I don't know, that episode made John seem infantile, not simply emotionally insecure, but truly dumb and it is one of my least favorite episodes, along with the death of Ecko.
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Locke tends to want a family bad enough to do idiotic things. See Helen - she treated him like absolute shit.
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... you make an interesting observation, considering that most of Locke's fellow box company employees looked noticeably younger than him. He could've been working there--- and feeling stuck--- for such a long time that some of the younger guys felt he was a joke. It makes you wonder if he had a visit from Alpert, an older Walt, or another like-minded character during that stint...
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Locke in the flashbacks with Peg Bundy made a lot more sense, those were the days when he was starting to improve, only to lose it all because of deep seeded anger and bitterness.
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Nov 17, 2008 3:31:36 PM CST
Flash forwards: The best decision the writers ever made
by mel gibsteinberg
We have to agree that the concept of moving the show off of the Island and then the use of flash forwards (or Island flash-backs, depending on how you look at it) was brilliant TV. How many shows in the history of TV have decided to make game changing risks like that. It just doesn't happen, and it was refereshing to say the least.
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403 was one of the best episodes of TV in ages. Amazing what a flash-forward did to make Naveen enthused again.
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... good point. To wit, as great of a show that "DS9" was, I think most people got tired of the characters spending so much time on that station. Having some "Lost" characters spending some non-flashback time in the real world (maybe) came in good time.
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Either they just go from the Oceanic 6 and Ben's POV while they try to get back on the Island. If they do this they can show the Island as flashbacks. It seems that a couple of years have passed since they left the Island. Does that mean 2 years have passed on the Island or will they think that the Oceanic 6 just left? Or, the other thing they can do is keep the focus on the people on the Island and what happens to them immediately following the Island moving. It seems like each episode has taken about 2 days of Island time. If they skip ahead two years, that will bypass too much stuff. Plus, I want to see Sawyer bag his third broad on the Island (get ready to spread em, Juliette). I really can't figure out what they're going to do. It seems like they won't have to do flashforwards anymore. So, where will the flashbacks come from now? It's dizzying to ponder. I hope they know what they're doing...
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WAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTT
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Nov 17, 2008 3:54:32 PM CST
Yeah, I feel sorry for Harold Perrineau. That poor guy
by coughlins laws
had to scream "Waaaaaaaaallllllllllllllttttttttttttt!!!!" and "I want my son!!! I need to find my son!!!!!" over and over again throughout Season 2. It must've been annoying to whine about it take after take, week after week. And then, after all that, they hype the fact that they're bringing him back in Seaons 4, only to have to wait 8 weeks for just one Micheal-Centric episode before killing him off. What a waste of 2 years of his life...
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Darlton confirmed in the crash anniversary podcast last year (Sept 07)that Mikail was dead and would never come back and that Mikail did not die at the sonic fence.
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Each episode will focus totally on a different group for the whole episode. An episode of the OC 6 and episode of island people, Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, etc and their interaction with the hostiles and with 70's Dharma since the island has gone back in time. It will switch back & forth episode to episode between the two or three groups.
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Nov 17, 2008 4:09:56 PM CST
The Island went back in time? Where did you hear this?
by coughlins laws
That's interesting. Also, are you saying that the Oceanic 6 will not have contact with the Island people anymore? So, no more Kate and Sawyer scenes? No more Ben and Locke scenes? That seems dissappointing...
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But he stopped breathing. Sayid's not dumb enough to leave a guy like Mikhail lying in the Jungle.
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Every goddamned time the Others came up they were nigh invincible.
Ethan, Others in the woods, the Other in the tail section, the continual superhuman other kidnaps.
Fucking god people most of that shit, meaning the same points, was posted here way back in when.
Starving to death? jesus christ they had barely crashed on the island when they killed Ethan.
While Lost is well written it is NOT the most consistent show. Supernatural is far more consistent in plotting than Lost.
No Lost throws ideas and people out there to see what sticks. Then when something clicks they remake the previous direction.
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Nov 17, 2008 4:49:16 PM CST
the problem i have with the island moving (possible spoilers)
by stuckinthepresentpaused
this is something that is bothering me with the whole island moving in time thing and won't be explained until season 5 is this; anytime someone has physically left the island ( alpert, friendly, ben etc) they have always been in the real world at the current time that is suppose to be taking place. So what i mean is ben has been traveling back and forth etc but we know that locke will end up off the island with the O-6 in current/present time. So if the island moved to the past between mid 70s-mid 90s, how does locke end up traveling from the island mid-whenever to current time. The producers said there won't be paradoxes so he can't leave the island mid-whenever and wait for current time so ... i don't know its the one thing i can't put my finger on.
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I'm surprised no one picked up on the young guy honey trap set for Locke during his dope grower days.
Does anyone really think they chose some young guy Locke could bond with over "vulnerability"?
Locke is fucking GAY!.
Maybe Freddie Mercury "Bisexual" gay.
Since his time on the island he has chickened hawked damn near every young male to walk within two feet of him.
I imagine he even tried to lure Hurley in the woods with promises of Skittles and Mayonaise. -
The island doesn't necessarily need to physically move anywhere.
We already know it is out of synch with "real world" time.
The island only needed to phase shift a bit more to remain unnoticed.
I doubt there would be enough energy, even with a zpm, to physically move that much mass while still keeping it all cohesive.
It is the cohesive part that is important. -
I was plenty into the show during Season 1, but they were creating mysteries and situations and who knew how effectively they would cash them in? Not till Season 2 was I confident they had a really great idea how to knock em down after they set em up.
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you mean like how the original title was "The Emperor's New Clothes"?
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"Since his time on the island he has chickened hawked damn near every young male to walk within two feet of him.I imagine he even tried to lure Hurley in the woods with promises of Skittles and Mayonaise." Damn that was funny
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Go back and check out some of the episodes, were they really supermen or was it just the perception of the Losties who were confused and scarred? The kidnaps did seem awfully amazing, but were they anything more incredible than what some well trained black ops people could do? I think we are supposed to suspend disbelief that it was all a combination of good training, island mojo, and the fact that the Losties were scarred shitless and confused as hell. I mean Ecko killed some, Anna killed Goodwin, Charlie (freakin' Charlie) killed Ethan, so they were hardly invincible.
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I think they were meaning to play on his "mentor" side, the fact that he wants to be a leader, a teacher, and have others listen to his word. But it is true, he did sidle up next to Walt, Charlie, Boone, and later had the adoration of eyeliner wearing Richard. But he did conspicously avoid Sawyer and Jack. Jack, cause he most likely wanted to be the one to wear the pants, and didn't think Jack would like pretty in a dress. Sawyer, well maybe he avoided Sawyer cause he knew he had spent time in prison and figured either his cornhole had teeth, or else he was going to get Hep C, and even the island can't cure certain STDs, like Hep C and the clap, oh and herpes, cause Ana definitely got that from Sawyer, as did Kate, and as will Juliet soon enough.
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From what I understand there won't be any contact between the OC 6 and the island people until season 6 or maybe the very end of season 5. Season 5 will be all about the OC 6 trying to figure out how to return to the island. The island traveling back in time is just a theory, but I would say that the new trailer confirms it with the scene where a Dharma guy in one of Kelvins yellow radiation suits is standing in the entrance to the Swan (Which is now blown up) aiming a rifle at Faraday. My guess is that we will get Danielles story, but rather then a flashback its first hand with some of the castaways observing it. Same thing with the story of 70's Dharma, Ben & Annie, the real Henry Gale & more insight about the purge. Its already been theorized that the cameraman shooting this years Comic-Con video of Piere Chang, Marvin Candle, etc was Daniel Faraday. During Comic-Con Darlton also said that when the season starts you will not only not know where you are, but when you are. Its a guess, but I think that the island did move back in time.
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He also sidled up to Claire. Sawyer made the comment of him doing that to get sex out of her.
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Nov 17, 2008 6:00:37 PM CST
Looks like this will be the unofficial Heroes TB for tonight...
by pennsy
Only because it's at the top of the coaxial plate. Trust me, I'm not into the Heroes v. Lost debate; it's just that unless Herc puts up a Heroes-specific TB.
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Is there a seperate trailer other than the one released several weeks ago? I will have to go back, I don't remember the Dharma dude with the rifle at Faraday.
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So they show the drug plane falling from the top of the cliff. Wonder why? Either this was a quick clip of the original crash, which isn't that interesting considering we know it was Ecko's brother, orIt was a replay of when Locke let Boone die. Or it is all a giant tease, and it is just the drug plane, with some happy coincidence that Kelvin was there to see it, or some little easter egg like that, like "hey remember the plane that crashed, yuk yuk, well heeeeere it is!!!"
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Its true. I have no doubt of it. But not because of a failure on the writers' part, but because no one answer will ever meet the dreams and imagination that's run through my mind. That's fine in my book, because as some others have said, its about the journey, not the destination, and it's been a fantastic journey. I for one hope they leave me one good question unanswered at the end to let me mull over past the show's life span.
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I created a Lost Fan Blog along with some some other friends. I created the character designs on the sidebar area.
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
Dude, there's better places to discuss Heroes. Why, I got a warning just the other week at TWOP for yelling at you about the ratings.
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Awesome blog, mate.
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WTF is up with that?!?!?!
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They're tres' puritanical over there.
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Why? In Ep. "Shape of Things to Come" Ben time travels two years into the future, a revelation not revealed until the finale's frozen donkey wheel. Plus Richard? What evidence do you have that when he saw Locke in the fifties it was the 50s on the island? Plus have you seen that Mark Wickmund/Edgar Halliwax/Marvin Candle video from Comic Con? Farraday's stuck in the 70s! Word.
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and it's here (we go)...
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Sure it may only have been the ravings of Frenchy (poor Frenchy Noooooooooo! don't kill Frenchy. bastards!) but it seemed to be pointing to a bit more than that what with all the Quarantine and Biosuit stuff. (though some of that WAS dealt with with the nerve gas plots)
Rousseau is supposedly coming back this season (presumably for flashbacks) and her flashback was always one I wanted to see with her science teams entrance to the Island and eventual slaughter.
As for Locke being dead... are we QUITE sure he's dead ? Just saying, Ben rigging a fake death for Jack and the Oceanic6's benefit is hardly beyond his powers. As well as the fact that Jacks Dad coming back to the Island would seem to point to Locke perhaps having quite a bit more to do even if he IS dead. Locke becomes Jacob ? Perhaps. -
With the Heroes commentary. Those of us without the US want to know.
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Elle doing a Dr. Manhattan on Sylar...
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Kickassery to follow. :D
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Claire with the full gainer off the 10th floor (?)
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Nov 17, 2008 8:17:56 PM CST
There's gotta be a catch to this...Elle having her way w/Sylar
by pennsy
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I don't think Flint knows he's related in a roundabout way to Claire.
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And now we veer into Buffy season 5 endgame territory. Remember "The Key"? Claire's gonna wind up being the one to make the formula actually work, I think.
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And this I can do without.
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Elle's just about spent; asked Sylar to 86 her...
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Don't do it,Nathan!
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Power, that is, *without* killing her.
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Arthur and Elle were in on it all along. Elle is full-fledged Pinehearst now.
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Its been a great labor of love for us.
As for the sickness I assumed that the sickness was what a lot of the frieghter crew had gotten. Mikowski's time tripping, Regina jumping off the boat with chains tried around herself, etc. They kind of lead you to believe that. -
The promo for next week's episode of Heroes already spoiled the effects of the looming eclipse. Now I don't have to bother watching. That frees up an hour for me.
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So what's new?
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That it all.
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Sen-fucking-sational. This is her guest actress Emmy submission tape. She's on for just 2 or 3 more episodes, and she's stepping it up even more on the way out. I am in awe.
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the very end and cut off the last 15 seconds of the episode and the preview for next week.
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I really hope they explain who's continuing to write the 9th Wonder/Future comic in the same style as the dead Issac did.
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It doesn't deserve to appear in the same TB as Lost.
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episode convinced you to reinstate the Heroes talkbacks at least until the midseason finale. It was hella good tonight, as good as the best of season 1.
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From TV Without Pity: "It was like BOOM and a freaking switch went off in every single actor and they finally stepped up. Kristen Bell deserves the legions of fanboys that worship her. I respect her game and always have. I actually warmed up to Sylar/Elle just because she was selling the hell out of it. I will be tuning in next week with anxiousness for the first time in forever. Thanks Kristen for making me like Heroes again."
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Reinstate a heroes talkback so these people don't sully the Lost talkbacks with their awful show.
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And to think that she choose that show over Lost and look where the show has gone.
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He was written out because the show took place over... what? 90 days in the first 3 seasons? And Walt had grown a foot or two in that time.
I don't know WHEN they thought of the flash forwards, and of bringing people BACK to the island, but now that they have jumped ahead in time several years, Walt's age is again the age of the character, and can therefore rejoin the cast without upsetting the space-time continuum. -
I guessed (correctly) way back when they were still just HINTING at the possibility of time travel that it would be like TWELVE MONKEYS - where you can't change anything and whenever you go back (or forward) in time you're a part of how things ALWAYS happened like that!
Just like they explain in that movie, you can go back and revisit and see new things you never noticed before or see them in a new light, but the movie will always remain the same - you can't actually CHANGE anything, the only thing that changes is YOU!
-James Cole, talking to Dr Railly in the movie theatre, while they're watching Vertigo (which he's seen before) -
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU
as for the rest of us...
Just coz there's going to be stuff happening in the 70's next season, doesn't necessarily mean it's because the ISLAND has moved to the 70's - somebody already mentioned Alpert in the 50's and him not necessarily coming FROM the 50's - we could just be seeing bits of FLASHBACK, or watching some individual time travellers...
Has it not actually been confirmed Faraday is Dr Candle's cameraman? I thought that was obvious...? -
one really gross mutant.
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...doesn't mean we're trolls. BiggusDickus explained it better than me but essentially we were big fans and were so disappointed that we honestly wonder what happened to our former favourite show. Calling us "trolls" implies we're posting obviously false opinions when - to us - nothing could be farther from the truth. Speaking for myself at least, I truly believe that the latter half of "Lost"'s run - including the ridiculous season four - is a litany of desperate plotting and wasted potential.So lambast us if you disagree but don't insult us because you feel threatened.
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With the Heroes TB. I'm one who happens to think both shows are good. The more quality scripted shows there are, the less chance of Dr Drew Celebrity Rehab VIII and Tila Tequila: Shot at Love 20 stay off my TV screen. :)
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Imagine if your past self jumped ahead fifteen years and saw the state of comics today, you'd be absolutely horrified.
"$3.99 for an issue of CRISIS?! And it's delayed until WHEN?! Spider-Man's not married to Mary Jane?! And...and...they finally made the WATCHMEN movie? Without the squid? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
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Nov 18, 2008 9:17:00 AM CST
Locke is the gayest and Trueblood's Eddie defines him.
by evilwizardglick
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Jesus wh ydo I keep watching this trainwreck. The fucking acting SUCKS. Normally decent actors like Forster and Bell are cringe-inducing. I feel sorry for anyone forced to be on this horribly written show. It's sad. There is not one likable character. It tells you something that Hiro and ten-year-old Hiro are barely distinguishable.
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I can't find the quote but it was eddie describing how he bacame a Vampire.
I imagine Locke had a similar moment somewhat before the dopers.
Thus the Honey trap laid for Locke. -
Kudos for ignoring my post where I asked why you guys had to treat people who like Heroes as if they were pathetic... yet whine when anyone dares criticise Lost. It's a nice way of revealing a petty and cretinous nature about yourself that you refuse to be cool with people having a different taste in TV to yours.
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Per Mediaweek magazine. Numbers don't lie, but last night was exceptionally kickass.
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I really enjoyed 309. A return to form after the awful timeline blotch up in 308. And if you disliked the ep, your loss.
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Chances are next week will restore some faith. By far the best episode of the season. That section in Angela's mind in particular - awesomely shot, written and acted.
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That scene in the beginning where Ando uses his "powers of awesome" to do that crazy flying jump-punch at Arthur Petrelli made me lol. That was crazy.
And the scenes with Daphne and Matt creep me out for some reason... I didn't mind in the future episodes where her hair was normal looking, but her and him together in the present time seems weird...I don't really get why Arthur doesn't hypnotize more people into doing his bidding. Still love Nathan's flying effect. -
What's up with Elle teaching Sylar how to use her powers? Shouldn't Mr. Intuitive Aptitude be a pro at it? I realize he didn't use the brain-cutter/examination process to obtain them, but I don't see why he would have to... of course that could be the reason. Eh.
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That is the reason. If Sylar cuts into the brain, he understands how the power works... without it, he's like Peter who has NO concept of how to use an ability at first. And total agreement on Ando - yeah it makes no sense, but that was an awesome moment for the character. Taking on the big-bad to save Hiro? So cool!
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This is a LOST TB so if you don't like it you can fuck off to The Zone.
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Compare Brea Grant's money scene last night vs, Kristen's; no comparison, actually. Bell sold the living shit out of Elle and Sylar actually being friends. Grant sounded like she was reciting a grocery list, somebody else said who watched.
KB carried the show on her back last night, then handed off to Angela and Matt and everybody else. Heroes is such deepest doodoo when her deal runs out next month. But how can anyone, me included, begrudge her the bright future that's staring her in the face? FIVE movies next year she'll be in. TV's loss is movies' gain. -
Don't like what? Being talked down to by a prick of a fanboy? I don't think many people like that. And I intend to 'fuck off to The Zone', because people with your brand of inane hatred of shows that you don't personally like (hatred that spreads to the people involved) aren't welcome there... as said hatred spells you out as another useless fanboy unable to accept that your feeble opinions aren't fact so much as ramblings and defamation approaching garbage. Enjoy your talkback, you dunce.
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What was the point of Peter trying to get Sylar's ability so that he could understand how to use time travel to fix the the future? I guess that was just a theory of his that we never got to see play out, since FPeter doesn't exist anymore.
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That's not really a fair comparison though. Bell spent three years as the lead on Veronica Mars, and before that years in other productions. She was polished before Heroes, and falls into that patter quickly. Grant's actually doing a good job given her relative inexperience, and the fact that they're only just now starting to write her material she can sell. Back to Bell, the scene where she has her back to camera and is manipulating electricity will wind up on a poster someday, guaranteed. Iconic barely describes it.
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Whenever Sylar absorbs an ability now, he could theoretically cut his own head open and look at it in a mirror, and understand how the ability works.
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FuturePeter is an idiot. The plan never made any sense because The Hunger stops people acting logically.
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Or Sylar can use TK on Arthur, then cut into his head and see how Intuitive Aptitude really works.
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More power to you. When you're done with your pedophilic-carthatic masturbatory fantasy of "Claire Bear" be sure and stuff that gunky tissue in your ears so you don't have to hear your own sobbing tears, or the atrocious dialogue of this horrendous bullshit you defend so pitifully.
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Defend it? I'm not defending it, I'm asking why a human being is incapable of chilling the fuck out and letting people enjoy it.
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That's when you frakkin' KNEW this was not going to be your run of the mill episode. Too bad I don't have a T-Mobile Sidekick or that image would be the wallpaper of my mobile phone. That's going to be one of the iconic images of the series, not just season 3.
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Yep. It's actually cool, Heroes has always come through with the ninth ep of the season. 109 'Homecoming', 209 'Cautionary Tales' and 309 'It's Coming' have all been rather awesome.
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Now fuck off.
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Was going to, but decided I'd rather not. For two reasons. 1) People aren't really discussing Lost currently, so I don't see the harm in going off-topic, and 2) There's no Heroes TB. So I'm following the lead of Pennsy. If you don't like it, take it up with Herc.
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Chill, HoboCode; if it's any consolation, I pre-ordered the Lost season 4 blu-ray. ;)
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For the sake of civility, let's discuss Lost. When do you think we're going to see Claire again?
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Sylar was almost like Spike, wasn't he? As in his trials to get him back to being a demon?
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Claire is on hiatus this season but is supposed to return in Season 6.
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Seriously, you used to engage in relatively calm, reasoned argument; what's happened? That's an unreasonable amount of anger directed toward someone who's intelligently expressing his opinion. Mr. Zeddemore is the kind of contributor we need in the TB's while you're turning into the kind who we definitely don't.Chill the fuck out.
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I'm hoping they put Sylar in a HRG situation. Not good or bad, he'll go wherever the logical situation takes him.
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Eh, I should be apologising. It's not like I've been particularly fair to Lost fans in the past.
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I mean, Isaac's been dead for quite a while and Ando pulls a fresh issue of 9TH WONDERS off the stands to show Hiro they're doing exactly what's in the comic, so who's creating the new issues?
Or did Ando just happen to pull the very issue containing events that Isaac predicted would happen way in the future after his own death?
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I thought Peter did a good job of standing in between fire man and fear man when he's got no powers. First time he's actually showed some balls.
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how do you think shes going to get Nathan to join the villains?
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She's pwned him. Yeah, he temporarily got the upper hand in Level 5, but she's kicked his ass for the third time now. At least I don't *think* Sylar will kill Elle and that will be it for KB on the show. He has her power and he didn't have to slice her open to do it.
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at least i dont think they will her off...but they may have to, to send her off.
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This is set, roughly, four months after Isaac died... so I'd buy that he'd have comics stockpiled. BUT... the snag with that is this future only came about because they stopped New York... and the Virus - so how could he fucking paint a future he wasn't sure would exist?
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Aye - I have to laugh at how many outs they've given Bell that they haven't taken.
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...you've done wrong nothing but present reasoned arguments. The TB needs more like you.
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as to how they get their powers back after the eclipse takes them away?
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We all know that; this was always a limited gig; she's in next week's episode definitely. Maybe 12/1 as well. I just hope she gets a Claude 'out', as in Arthur sending her off somewhere if things get dicey.
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I think after 309, we all know why she's going to go and that she won't be back for... oh... about a year.
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:) I'm crossing my fingers as the video commentary for last night hasn't been posted yet on the NBC Heroes site. If there's ANY justice, let Kristen and Zach do the honors.
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I'd actually like them to start doing Lost commentaries. For some reason, I'd like them to stick TOQ and Fox in a room together and see if they can generate any enthusiasm to co-exist.
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So who all recieved todays e-mail from Hans Van Eegan for the Dharma game? I thought that it was very odd with him selling the company to the show Lost because of financial problems.
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I received an email saying I could log on to see my final results and position but have not been able to log on all day.
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Rather Blake Shields (Flint) and a couple BTS folks (behind the scenes).
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Just to clarify. I hope the show gets its own TB next week, too.
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That's a little meta...
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Im having problems getting on also. Must be a lot of people trying to get on since Lost is a very popular show. Chief Brody said over at the real talkback that he got a construction job. I love the e-mail though.
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Nov 18, 2008 5:20:40 PM CST
have not watched season 3 of heroes quick question for those tha
by cekma
Did peter's irish girlfriend who was trapped in the future ever get resolved? I predicted when the writers came back for season 3 they would just "pretend" that storyline never existed. I have a feeling I'm right. Which would piss me off. It was a horrible storyline, but regardless, tie up loose ends! Don't insult an audience further by pretending it didn't exist!
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Angela Petrelli rules. The scene where Arthur has this smirk on his face and lets her go... even he knows it, and he's evil.
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They ignore it. I'm a little annoyed too, but S2 ended almost a year before S3 began - only Internet folk remember Caitlin, and most of them hated her.
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Sounds like a Blues song, but my former employer, a 158 year old Investment Bank went bankrupt, the economy is screwed and need some cheering up.
So how about some episodes of Lost now.... please .....and whilst I am begging....some free booze too. -
Simply lost (har!) any residual interest in it.
New Hatch! That's what we want and need. And Frenchy (even if she is dead) I'm off to listen to some season 4 LOST commentaries. ;-) -
Mikhail as a creepy animal smuggler on SVU!
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Yeah, it must go back instead of forward. Because that dharma dude that chatted up Locke late last season is coming back for some eps. Can't believe they'd bring him back for several just for flashbacks.
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Herc, wassupwitdat?
I got a Lost question - in the teaser trailer, who is the guy in the yellow Hazmat suit pointing a gun at?
It all just goes by so quick! The QoS editor must have cut it -
It appears to be Daniel Faraday. As for who the guy is in the suit I agree with 4we8 that it's probably Radzinsky. I haven't heard anything about Clancy Brown (Kelvin) returning, and if the island moved back in time to Dharma time then that would be before Kelvin arrived which was presumedly just after the first Gulf War.
This brings up a question for me. Many people think the Island traveled back to Dharma prime (i.e. the 70's), but if we are going to witness the Purge then it would have to be much later. The Purge was in 1992. We don't really know if Kelvin arrived before or after the Purge but one would suspect before since he said he responded to an ad by Dharma to join (unless it was outdated, but then how did he get there?). Of course Kelvin could be lying off his ass, but assuming he's telling the truth it makes me wonder if Kelvin will appear if we are to witness the Purge. -
The reason why it will be hard to find the island after the Donkey Wheel was turned is because everyday the island jumps to a different time?
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Tha twould certainly shake things up wouldn't it?
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