Cool News
Six New WATCHMEN Character Posters...
Merrick here...
Six new character posters for WATCHMEN are currently making the rounds.
Clumsily assembled thumbnails are presented below.
CLICK THEM to jump to the various sites hosting the images (where you'll find larger versions of the posters).
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Can't wait.
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Let's take the greatest graphic novel ever and promote it with crapola photoshop posters! Brilliant!
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Do those costumes remind anyone else of the Schumacher Batman films? Do they have nipples too?
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If you're changing the ending, why bother filming the book? He should have just waited and let another director do it.
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..is going to be awesome. Squid or no squid, I am there!
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Ozymandius' costume has nipples. I believe it was a deliberate decision to parody '90s superhero movies a little.
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photoshop for this stuff looks shit, its only a small thing but Blake's finger ain't even on the trigger of that flame thrower and it's shooting flame like full blast, it's like a splinter in my mind.
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he'd suck your dick as soon as look at you.
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For a movie based on a visual medium, someone in the promotions department is seriously sucking at their job.
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marketing this movie to the general public.
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Is it official; no squid?? I will lose my damn mind.
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I think I'm going to cry.
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giving them "exclusives"!
Shittiest network on the planet! -
Is it just me or is the Ozymandias poster kinda fucked up for practically spoiling the "who done it?" nature of the story?
Or am i just reading into it too much since I know the story? -
And Jackie Earle Haley comes out of obscurity (check out his devastating performance in Little Children), to wear a cheesecloth over his face? I am intrigued, though.
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everything i've seen him do so far is horrible (watching the webisodes...haven't read book).. but something Snyder is doing makes me love the guy. Maybe it's in the story as well...
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...and most people seemed to think that one was okay.
The book is still on your shelf, you can read it whenever you want. It hasn't changed. -
who said this is being sold very poorly to the non-Watchmen general public. These shots and the man-falling-from-window poster is not going to get Mr and Mrs Sixpack off their couch.
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Color me unimpressed. The trailers were visually amazing, the stills from production sets were inspiring, but these posters. . .well, let's just say that the majority of Photoshop newbies could slap the above posters together. And possibly do a better job, as well.
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Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Robert Downey Jr as brothers, quick.
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I just hope the movie doesn't suck. I have a bad feeling about this.
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http://tinyurl.com/5oly6q
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skimn Nov 11th, 2008
09:03:30 AM
who said this is being sold very poorly to the non-Watchmen general public. These shots and the man-falling-from-window poster is not going to get Mr and Mrs Sixpack off their couch.
This movie is not for them.
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All of them are cool but the Comedians poster is truly great. I want one baaahhh!
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Which I find oddly appropriate and awesome.
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The resemblance to RDJ in that shot is uncanny.
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Nothing as important as the squid from Watchmen was cut from Lord of the Rings.
I just don't understand why you'd sit down and think "Well, I'm going to direct a film of this book. Oh, but I don't like the last third of it, let me come up with something else".
This is probably the only Watchmen movie we'll ever get. If you're not going to do it right, just do something else and save it for someone who is up to the challenge. -
the character posters they released at comic-con this summer were 100 times better. why not make them the official theatrical posters?
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The Comedian poster rules, because the Comedian rules. I don't even care that his hand isn't on the flame thrower trigger or that it is on full blast. I'm gonna pretend it has a lock-on position like a gas pump. :)
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The movie can't be exclusively for you, us or the geek community at-large either. The WB hasn't sunk millions of dollars into this film to get a niche audience and the release date speaks to a lack of hope that it's going to be an awards winner. They're looking for solid box office performance and, in that regard, commenting on the lame posters and how they really aren't going to resonate with the general public is a valid point.
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...look who they released the new posters to: if giving exclusives to USA Today, MTV and Wired doesn't tell you that the WB desperately wants this film to appeal to everyone then you have blinders on.
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The squid isn't a deal-breaker for me, but I DO find it odd that Snyder would be so obsessively meticulous about the entire project (every mote of lint needs to have been made pre-1985!!!!) and then change something as major as the ending. Studio interference?
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Nov 11, 2008 9:18:44 AM CST
that one guy looks like Chris O'Donnel's Robin....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....with those eye covers and the rubber chest plate. Thats got Joel Schumacher all over it.
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I'm just remembering how sad and pissed I was when I saw the Galactus Cloud in the Fantastic Four movie, I can't go through that again
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The squid was just so.. Out there. It really made it hit home how ridiculous the entire plot was, but how necessary. Sigh. I'd be happier spending my money on blank DVDs and burning a copy for everyone I know than letting someone who'd fuck around with someone elses work have a penny.
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...need a muscle suit. This actor looks like Doogie Howser.
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I won't be satisfied until they produce a director's cut where the whole of New York is wiped out by a gigantic Spongebob. Squids suck.
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That was my point exactly. From a purely commercial standpoint, marketing being the advertising arm of the company, Warners will have a hard time making a profit with the material thats been released so far.The trailer does rock, though.
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Oh fucking hell, you're right! Ozy DOES look like Seven of Nine without the tits!That's ruined the whole thing for me now...well, that and the new no-squiddy ending.
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"From a purely commercial standpoint, marketing being the advertising arm of the company, Warners will have a hard time making a profit with the material thats been released so far."
Right, because actually marketing the film that's been made is always a bad idea. What would you have done differently, make shit up that isn't part of the story just to get people to see the movie? Besides, this one's still 4 months away- it's not like they're short on material that's yet to be released. You want all the cooler stuff out there now, to be repeated ad nauseum until March, so that everyone's so sick of it they don't WANT to see Watchmen? What you don't know could fill a warehouse, pal. But, opinions are like assholes, I guess- everybody's got them. -
And I have no dog in this fight of a movie. Just saying is all.
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And it sounds like the [SPOILER] Manhattan nuked everyone[/SPOILER]
Damnit it's practically all fucked up now, there better be more to this thing Snyder than what I'm hearing! -
I was just echoing the opinion of those that think these are lackluster posters. As was the original main poster (man falling from window). I'll be there opening weekend, although I have scant knowledge of the graphic novel. Read tiredpm's post above.
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Like some mention of the source material in all this please? I thought they would at least do one poster that isnt hack photoshop bullshit. If these are even real. Cause they are bad.
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...if I was Nite Owl, and Ozymandias had just laid out his master plan, the question I'd have to ask is, "Adrian, if you're the smartest man in the world, couldn't you have stopped WWIII in a way that was less...bizarre?"I accept that the alien invasion has a good, psychological basis (unite people against the ultimate Other), but it's such a strange solution that it would require an immense amount of explaining. And the film doesn't have the equivalent of 300+ pages to justify it.So I, for one, am glad they're dumping the alien invasion.
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This movie will rule. You know it. Prepare for another 'Dark Knight' phenomenon.
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A torch always has the flame on in stand-by mode once it it ignited. You turn off the gas via the valve above the tank cylinder. The hand lever on the gun controls the amount of gas released.
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And the return of the vinyl nipples! NOOOOOO!!!! I hope it has something to do with new story elements critiquing the Shumacher Batman movies, and it's not a serious design choice. Then again, 300. Hmmm.
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Let me put it this way: say you want to stop the fighting in Iraq so our troops can come home. So PLAN A is to spend years cross-breeding a giant squid with a vagina, in the hopes that people will be so freaked out by it that the fighting will stop?Why didn't Ozymandias try killing either the US or Soviet leaders who were so hell-bent on Armageddon?Why not go to Dr. Manhattan and ask him to pull a Superman 4: wipe out both countries' nuclear arsenals?I don't mind the alien invasion as a plan. But for that to be Ozymandias' Plan A strikes me as a little bizarre. And that's why I think it would require a lot of explaining.
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Snyder:
"The fans, god love 'em, they're all up in arms about the squid. What they should be up in arms about are things like shooting the pregnant woman, 'God is real and he's American', whether THAT's in the movie. That's my point of view, maybe I'm crazy."No, he ain't crazy. Obviously Snyder is an idiot. Whoa whoa whoa. I'm not saying he's not a talented director--he is. But if Snyder doesn't understand why Moore's ending is the most logical, ingenious solution to the world's issues in THE WATCHMEN, Snyder really doesn't understand the story at all.We're not talking a minor detail or line being taken out. This is the FUCKING climax of an epic story--what the whole goddamned story has been inexorably leading to throughout each chapter. It's worse than taking the Balrog out of LOTR. It's more like having Frodo tricking the Nazgul into destroying the Ring with collective heat vision (or something equally absurd and non-canonical). I'm not saying I won't see this movie--I will, though maybe not in the theater. I'm not even saying that Snyder won't do many things right (clearly he will). But taking the Squid out of the climax of THE WATCHMEN and replacing it with Manhattan-atom bombs is simply ludicrous. Whatever is the case, Snyder and Company have fucked up the ending of THE WATCHMEN, period. And, yeah--that's kind of a big deal. -
Appealing to the lowest common denominator of people who loved those flicks. Why not market in an original way? Another poster that they released yesterday or the day before just looked like a Dark Knight poster rip-off.
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Latex never looked so good
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WTF?!
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The public on the other hand is going to wonder why they should care for this cast of nobody super heroes. As a geek I am happy. I just don't think I would invest any of my own money into this picture.
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Nov 11, 2008 11:11:20 AM CST
Nothing as important as the squid from Watchmen was cut from Lor
by knowthyself
What about Tom Bombadil? Oh and don't forget the extended cuts put in alot of what was missing from the theatrical releases. Their will be a watchmen super extended black freighter edition. The squid is a symbol as long as the symbol remains you don't need the ACTUAL squid. Just the event itself needs to happen with a similar result.
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Did someone up there just admit to watching that show? If so, their opinion on any further Watchmen matters has been rendered moot.
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If you guys head over to itunes, and search Watchmen, they have 25-30 minute episodes of each chapter. It's actually pretty damn good.
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You made good counter-arguments, and I would imagine that Ozymandias would also have good counter-arguments if Nite Owl had presented alternative scenarios.It's just that I don't remember Nite Owl doing that, so you just have the leap from "Oh, my god, we're facing Armageddon." to "I'll genetically engineer a fake alien to save the day".I prefer to think of the invasion as Plan Z, something Ozymandias only did because more conventional solutions all failed.But thank you for keeping this discussion civilized thus far.
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..is you choose your battles with the studio. I'm sure Synder gave up the squid for many other MORE important details. Manhattans balls, the pregnant lady getting shot, the original look and style of the comics, the 1980's period setting, and so on. Stop obsessing over what's not there and be happy about what did make it. Hell you should be thrilled it's rated R and not PG13.
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He looks cool.
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they're gonna make The Comedian and Rorschach heroes aren't they?
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Do you REALLY think Tom Bombadil is as important to Lord of the Rings as the squid is to Watchmen? Think about it for a few minutes. Tom Bombadil has no effect on the story outside of the scene he is in.
I can understand people not liking the squid and thinking it won't work in the movie...but I wouldn't want you making it either. There HAS to be a director somewhere that fully understands the significance of the ending, and I would have rather Synder just passed on it, so someone who gets it could make it. We're only getting one Watchmen movie, don't you want it to be right? -
They look alright to me
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Cutting out the Squid is not like cutting out Tom Bombadil from LOTR. The Squid's horrific appearance is the climax of WATCHMEN--what the whole story has been moving towards throughout the chapters. Cutting out the Squid is equal to cutting out the Ring's destruction in the fires of Mount Doom. And, no, the Squid is not just a symbol. A completely non-anthropomorphic horror from another dimension does not equal Manhattan-atom bombs going off all over the world. An unexpected, completely mysterious threat from Beyond is the only viable way that the world will come together and stay together for any length of time. Doc Manhattan is an American and an attack by him would be considered an attack by America against the whole world. Even if you buy into the idea that the Squid is simply a symbol that can be substituted by a like event, the "solution" WATCHMEN movie creators came up with doesn't work. They would've had to go with a conventional alien invasion (which would have its own problems but at least would've made some sense). The Doc Manhattan mini-nukes solution is a COMPLETE departure from the book's climax.Honestly, it would be like substituting the Ring's destruction in the bowels of Mount Doom with Frodo figuring out how to trick the Nazgul into collectively destroying the Ring with heat vision (or something equally absurd and non-canonical).In short, Tom Bombadil is a minor character that bears no association with LOTR's climax. The Squid IS the WATCHMEN's climax, and its exclusion from the film is a huge, shitty change on Snyder & Co's part.
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You wrote: "I'm sure Synder gave up the squid for many other MORE important details. Manhattans balls, the pregnant lady getting shot, the original look and style of the comics, the 1980's period setting, and so on. "
Um, you are joking, right? We're talking about the fucking climax of the story--not whether "the pregnant lady" gets shot or not or whether a random favorite line is in or not. -
Whether the blame falls on Snyder or the studio, then end result is still the same. I guess whose fault it is will all be conjecture until any dirt comes out after the movie. I would just extend my Synder thought to the studio head, then- why did they want to produce it if they didn't like the source material?
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Nov 11, 2008 11:42:08 AM CST
D.Vader, I hadn't thought of crazy supervillain angle.
by kevin holsinger
It does actually make sense, given what Moore was doing with the book.Well, I have to go. Thanks for the insights. Gives me stuff to ponder later. Enjoy the rest of your day.
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Sorry fatties, go be fat somewhere else. Except, I'm assuming that the squid is in, and the screening was a massive head-fake.
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Search your cameo in Back in School, you know it to be true.
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(disappointed Waylon Smithers-type groan)
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Making a big deal out of it is a mistake. I don't give a damn about some squid, it would have been a waste of money. If they can get the same point across without using a CGI squid, and the rest of the movie is as kick-ass awesome is it looks, I DON'T CARE.
BTW, we have to support this, and the Preacher movie, or we'll get more PG-13 shit made by Brett Crapner. -
If you want to be really fucking dense or really fucking pedantic, Snyder is making a commentary on recent superhero films. You might not like it, but don't gormlessly stare at a poster and think he's doing it for no reason.
I swear to God most of you tits are better off being turned into mulch. -
since everyone else got one.
wait let me guess: they dont like the potty humor in the reviews here? -
Of course I agree with your squid arguments, the revelation at the end of the book completes the tapestry and makes the circle complete. I also often make the point in film conversations that things don't have to be changed in adaptations because of "limitations of film" or other lame excuses. However, I am interested in how the movie Watchmen tackles the ending and am keeping an open mind regardless of the lack of squid. As long as Snyder and his team stick to the thought of the Watchmen film being a deconstruction of the modern super hero film (as the comics Watchmen was a deconstruction of the then-modern super hero comic book) changing the ending could be successful. If the rumored nuclear ending is in the cards, it would echo the modern super hero film trend of the villains causing massive destruction, and would also unite the world against the hero characters at the same time. I'm waiting to see how it plays out in the finished film before passing judgement.
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...I'm loving these posters!
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but my expectations for this have plunged since I found about the changed ending. I've gone from raving that everyone I knew had to see it to thinking I might catch it on cable.
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...Snyder reins in his impulse to slo-mo everything to death and do all this other over-stylized crap. He's a great director, but needs to drop that annoying gimmick. It's a crutch...you don't see Christopher Nolan or Steven Spielberg doing this, do you? (though I think mentioning Spielberg after Indy 4 is pointless..ugh).
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to fuck up the end by the studio. He seemed to be getting the story until the changed ending was confirmed. You know what, we do still have the book and I for one will read it again instead of paying for this movie. I'll watch it when I steal it off the interwebs.
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...that the newspaper office scene is gone too? Maybe I imagined that, I can't quite remember where (I thought) I read it. I can't help but wonder if *ahem* "Joe Sixpack" would even understand "Burgers and Borscht" or the newspaper office scene. It works extremely well in the book, but I've found that unless some horribly obvious bit of dialog isn't spit at the audience about subtleties in film these days, the majority of that audience just won't get it. I get what you're saying about the nuke ending opening up plot holes, but let's hope that any potential plot problems have been properly thought through by the filmmakers. Maybe the set up of a nuclear ending will happen throughout the film by dropping hints during Doc Manhattan's scenes, as the hints about the artists (in the Watchmen book) foreshadowed the squid. That's just one potential fix that could shore up a new ending as well as cutting running time by removing scenes of hinted squid design. Snyder has made entertaining films so far, let's see if he can make us think as well.
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which is what should be done with every adaptation. So, this might suck as an adaptation, yet make a great film. Or it might suck all on it's own. Who knows? Anyway, I judged V for Vendetta and From Hell as the films that they were, and they turned out great. Let's hope that, changed ending or not, this is a good film.
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But they did change the final act of LOTR - the whole scouring of the shire. And just like the Watchmen ending is supposed to represent the same motivations, character developments and general point of the project, so the same arguments were put across that LOTR got across the same messages of the Scouring through visions and other dialogue. Both are endings they don't feel would work with the general public, both reached for solutions that would keep the whys of their source material if not the hows. And I'd have loved to have seen the squid but I'm open to see how the new ending works. If everything between the group remains the same then I'll be happy. That's the most important bit to me - I don't want any owlarangs or anything. Let the living and dead be the same as the book's conclusion.
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I read somewhere that the final scene of the film will be the same as the final scene of the book. Obviously things could change but I hope not.
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What a mess! Lack of focus destroyed that film. Barely any resonance at the end, I can't believe how badly they underplayed it. I hope I don't leave Watchmen feeling like I did when I left Order of the Phoenix. I find myself more excited about performances in Watchmen so far, I've known they'd change the ending of a Watchmen film ever since Andy Mangels first reported one was on the way in the early days of Wizard Magazine. I guess I've lived without the idea of squid on film for so long it just doesn't bother me anymore.
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is fail. seriously, this is the best they can do for the character? i swear i'd rather see him in a $.99 yellow domino mask from the local halloween store. that shit looks BAD.
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And worse, every damned look at Ozy, especially in the mask, makes him look like a venal, sniveling villain. Snyder, you fool, Adrian Veidt is supposed to be JFK mixed with Robert Redford with a touch of Gandhi, not a skinny little weak-faced punk. Even Rorschach, who suspects Veidt is gay and so finds him perverse, respects him in many ways. This obviously sinister creation is not the Veidt of the book.
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The Scouring is a better example than Bombadil, but I still think we're talking apples and oranges here. The Scouring doesn't represent the climax of LOTR--that would be the destruction of the Ring. As I stated above, if Jackson had changed Sam and Frodo's struggle up Mount Doom, Frodo's decision to keep the Ring and Gollum's attack (and fall), THAT would be equivalent to the WATCHMEN filmmakers taking out the squid and replacing it with some other "solution." And it would've been a terrible mistake.The Scouring of the Shire, while important to the LOTR as a whole, was removed because Jackson thought it would be anticlimactic. It wasn't replaced or revised--it was removed completely. While I don't agree with that choice either, it was a lesser crime by far and far less plot-damaging than Snyder & Co's Squid-replacement.
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Get it? The costume is hideous, tacky and just plain stupid, but that's kind of the point. Ozymandus thinks he's such a great guy, but the other superheroes know he's just a big fat douche.
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sorry, but the more i look at that poster the more it annoys me. it's too shooped and ozy just looks bad. also, it being a commentary on joel schumacher? give me a break. i already know that schumacher is a fucking tit, i don't need to be reminded of said fact.
bubastis does look nice though. -
Hideous poster. Just bad.
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ozy is not a douche. the other heroes don't think he is a douche, though rorschach finds him slightly off. he is the closest to a real 'superhero' apart from doc m. he can catch bullets, FFS.
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Got a ragin geek boner and sprayed geek juice all over the place. Sorry guys.
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...to double as a convention for cynics. I really don't know why I ever read these things anymore. I have enough perpetually unsatisfied, whiny bitches in my life.
Show of hands. How many people declaring this a "fail" are going to happily pay $10 to see this film opening night? -
it sounds wrong, and kinda makes the Black Freighter irrelevant buuut Ill reserve judgement till I see the finished thing. Remember the shit storm kicked up when they revealed The Joker wore makeup? Soon after nobody cared...this could be kinda the same, if you consider how loyal people were to Mr.J's origin. Those posters are pretty cool...although Silk Spectres ass is as distracting as script girls breasts...hopefully ackermans vice is bearable.and Skimn-Rorshach will be pretty much the star of the flick, and Kovacs reveals his face LOADS in the book so Haley isnt coming out of obscurity just to cover his face...everyone will know the guys face after this thing hits like.
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if sixties audiences could handle a variant of it as an episode of the outer limits--look up 'the architects of fear'--then there's no reason that it can't be explained satisfactorily during the course of the film. advocating that there's no room for it just makes you sound like you want audiences to be stupid mouth-breathers.
to the poster who mentioned that they hope snyder doesn't rely on his slo-mo fetish for the entire film--i'm with you there. after the scream awards i noticed a bunch of it in that preview and it freaked me out a little.
and though i may be cynical, of COURSE i'm going to shell out the cash. it's the effing watchmen, FFS. -
In terms of the studio just making the film as a cash grab, that dosen't make a lot of sense to me either. If they just wanted to make bank, they have a ton of other properties avaliable that's much more bankable- whenever Green Lantern comes out it will make more money then Watchmen. I don't understand Watchmen being made as anything other then a passion project, which is why I don't get the people behind it changing the ending.
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I'll be seeing it at midnight.
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I agree with you but it's not like you're stating a new theory. These are the same people who bitched FOR MONTHS about heath ledger in TDK.
And for the record I'm very upset about the absense of the squid but also openly admit that I'll be at watchman on march 9th at 12:01 because I'm still extremely curious as to how it will turn out -
Looks like Snyder & Co got some shit right. But the exclusion of the Squid is NOT a minor detail change. This is not a geeky "OMG! The Joker is SUPPOSED to be REALLY white with green hair" moment. This is a quintessential change to the fucking CLIMAX of the whole story. I don't have to reserve my judgment to know that substituting an alien horror attack from Beyond with Manhattan-nukes around the world is a terrible, senseless change.So, yes--I'll see the film sooner or later. But I can already guaran-fucking-tee you I won't like the climax of one of my favorite stories changed beyond recognition or good sense.
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Doesn't really excite me where I need to be excited.
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Nov 11, 2008 3:34:39 PM CST
Who cares when AVATAR is fucking our eyeballs in 2009?
by motoko kusanagi
AVATAR - nothing else matters
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Just Avatar next year and Avengers in 2011, I don't need anything else.
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They've exchanged a big visual WTF shock moment for an "It was I..." moment. It sucks. But I'm holding out hope for those rumors about the alternate ending they've shot. Despite my disappointment, imagine you're someone who hasn't held the book in their hands and studied every frame and reread it to catch every detail, every bit of foreshadowing. The squid would absolutely take you out of the film. It couldn't do with just a few lines of dialog from Ozy about how he masterminded the squid operation. It's a deus ex machina in a film sense, but it makes complete literary sense. Moore was right. They were doing things that aren't, and shouldn't be, possible in a film. I'll miss the squid but c'mon. I don't believe general audiences to be drooling morons, but I understand why the change.
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but i will still suck it up and check it out. squid-lack will piss me off, though.
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please don't tell me it couldn't be made to work in the film. it annoys me.
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that the squid is in this film, with everyone in production bluffing us off?
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I could swear I remember reading some interview with him like 20 years ago, and he said he thought the whole squid thing was kinda lame. Sam Hamm dropped the squid, too, you'll recall... the ending involved going into an (our) alternate reality.
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Either they have a solution that fucks everything up or something that works just as much or almost as well or even better. That is what is yet to be seen. Substituting Dr Manhattan for it probably won't work that well.
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Damn You, Brett Ratner
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"Just think how easy his task and mine might be...if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species...from another planet...outside in the universe...we'd forget all of the little local differences that we have between our countries...and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this Earth together...well, I don't suppose we can wait for some alien race to come down and threaten us...but I think that between us, we can bring about that realization..."
That's why (even though Nixon is still the president in the book) the squid is important, nay, NECESSARY...Especially to such a quintessentially 1980s story where the Cold War and the Russian/Afghanistan conflict Reagan was a participant in are an intrinsic part of the background story.
Besides, how does the whole "mask killer" plot that drives the story even get started if The Comedian never stumbles upon Veidt's massive island facility where the plot is being hatched?
Veidt's plot FRIGHTENED The Comedian. I giant psychic-powerd fucking space octopus is SCARY. I don't think The Comedian would have been as shook by nukes, or even Manhattan. It's not in his character.
So, there are problems with this lack of squid...BIG problems. -
Although I personally think the Squid (i.e., an apparent alien threat from another dimension) is by far the best solution, any substitution of like kind might work. HOWEVER, replacing the Squid with a quintessentially terrestrial threat (i.e., the *American*, Doc Manhattan) doesn't have the same impact and doesn't even have logic to support it. The world would not come together to defend against an American threat. Nor would any other country believe that Doc Manhattan had gone rogue. If anything, the world would unite against the US, and we'd end up with WWIII after all.Oh, and acamp, please post this interview you may remember when you find it. I'd be curious. There's no doubt that the Squid resolution IS a bit tongue in cheek (and is a commentary on comic characters and plots in and of itself), but I also believe it's one of the most brilliant, unexpected and horrifying moves ever written for the medium.
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Lose the squid, all the gab about being reverent towards the source goes out the window.
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this was terrible casting guys...
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Damn You Michael Bay
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Ozymandus clones or replicates or something another Dr Manhattan. This was mentioned somewhere, I think. Doc doesn't actually blow stuff up himself. Still, I really won't mind whatever they throw at me. Even if this was the best movie ever, I'd still go to the comic when I wanted Watchmen. This is just a movie. There will always be the comic. And it will always be better.
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Those photos really suck. They should stop cutting shit off halfway and start posting them on their own damn site!
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Sure, Ozzy's big plot in the Samm Hamm script is that he wants to kill Dr. Manhattan when he was created so Manhattan never exists so war doesn't happen - but the point remains: the climax of the film revolves around Ozzy conspiring against Manhattan, not Ozzy conspiring to fake an alien invasion. I think that's a holdover through the script development years that landed in Synder's script. Kind of like how James Cameron's Spider-Man scriptment had organic webshooters and that stuck around through all the scripts over the years. For those interested in Sam Hamm's watchmen script, check it out (the final page or two is downright gawdawful, though. At least they didn't keep that) http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/wtchmn.txt
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Veidt has measured Manhattan's specific energy signature and attunes his devices to it when they shoot death beams down upon the earth. Veidt also sends a fake message to the earth's governments. Thus, Manhattan is blamed for the destruction. As Fishus says, an attack by Manhattan, even if it included American targets, would lead the rest of the world to fear and hate America because AMERICA's hero had gone wild. It's a crap climax and even worse, it leads into a crap denouement. "Because you never hear them coming," anyone?
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it's the resolution, not the denouement.
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for communicating eloquently what I could not. Could you imagine any other nation on earth buying the story that the USA wasn't to blame for (the American superhero) Doc M's destructive shenanigans? Not exactly a neutral third party, is he?
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He's the ultimate sellout, complete with molded muscle suit and nipples. This is Snyder's poke at how Batman lost its way in the 90s, and how everything that a superhero is supposed to be was lost in toys and merchandising. Ozy's empire exactly mirrors Schumacher's Batman films. It's awesome.
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That may well be the case, but that is far from the character as presented in the book. Even Veidt is tired of being the public's hero in the book, but for all his action figures and self-improvement courses he's still supposed to be a glowing god to the public. Deconstruction does not mean radically changing huge swaths of story and atmosphere because you don't care for the original. It's sad, to me, that Snyder, who supposedly reveres the book, would be so slavish in some ways and thumb his nose at other, far more important, elements.
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NON-Americans are what caused the American puppy to go wild. I mean, say the talk show or scientists that accused Manhattan of causing cancer were Russian (now why would he be there? Who knows, but I'm sure they could come up with an explanation), then they'd ALSO be to blame for "Manhattan's rampage," which would give them cause to unite with America against this common threat. Yeah, blame would get thrown around, but their common enemy would trump the petty blame game at that point.
Otherwise, it'll be a pretty big logic leap, and definitely hurt the story. Still, I'm looking forward to the movie, if only for the 2+ hours before the ending, b/c it does look like Snyder nailed that much, at least. For some reason, Ozy doesn't bother me, I guess b/c I know Matthew Goode's an awesome actor who will most likely do the character justice, so I don't really give a shit what he looks like. -
If Sarah Palin looked like Bella Abzug, would the joe six-packs of the world have liked her so much? Same deal with Adrian Veidt.
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That freaky eye... that thing was fucked up.
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fan-fucking-tastic
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I've been trying my best to insult Ratner's, I mean Snyder's manhood whenever possible in hopes of shaming him into keeping the squid. But I guess at this point the squid is either in or not and it's probably too late to do anything about it. so rather than keep repeating myself I made a GIANT SQUID emoticon. (:‹›≈≈ It is an avatar for, "Fuck Snyder, that fucking frat boy piece of shit coward, unless he's secretly holding the squid ending as a surprise then my words are re-directed toward Kevin Spacey for no good reason. Plus it's like an Invisibles style magic thing where each time someone types the emoticon, Snyder's penis shrinks a bit until it actually pokes out the back through his spine like a lonely and terrible tentacle." (:‹›≈≈ .
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as does rorschach (in costume) and jon.
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I forgot the squid only had one eye. This is better maybe (ø‹›≈≈ That other emoticon means mockingbuddha finds a millions dollars and spends it on action figures. This (ø‹›≈≈ one means all that other stuff.
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MockingB--this will only work if TBers stare at the sigil/emoticon whilst masturbating. Just ask Grant Morrison.(:‹›≈≈ Brilliant.
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But how do we do the double tilde?
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Indeed.
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I went to MS Word and Insert then symbols then got the symbol and the copy and pasted it. (ø‹›≈≈
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I left that part out because I assume all TBers are constantly masturbating anyways. Plus that was comics this is an elaborate series of tubes. Much more powerful.
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http://tinyurl.com/6bavts
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I just laughed so hard at Mockingbuddha's post that I think I peed myself a little bit.
I think the idea of turning the hero's into the villians can work... perhaps the squid can be replaced with the characters already involved. -
You rock bud. keep on keepin' on. This has been one of my favorite talkbacks in a while, perhaps because of how civil everyone, including haters, are treating each other.
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I'm just asking..... And, yeah, Ozymandias DOES look a bit too young, but whatever. Maybe it's just that the guy LOOKS young. Ozy did keep himself in good health and physical condition.
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into an Invisibles talkback!!! I have the issue with the infamous letters page, but I got it after the date was passed so I could not participate. If they made invisibles into a movie Zack would probably get a woman to play Lord Fanny. Did you know that in Britain fanny is a harsh slang word for the vagina? About the equivalent of cunt here, and cunt is considered mild over there, about the equivalent of ass here? So Americaners should read Lord Fanny's name as Lord Cunt to get the proper effect. I learned that from watching the original British office and further investigation on the world wide web.
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(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈(ø‹›≈≈
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so, get over that part -your defensive reasons aside, it won't be there. if that means you don't go see the film in the theater, or ever, fine. Just understand right here, right now, THERE IS NO SQUID. I'll probably go the way of D. Vader and love "every minute of the film up until the climax, at which point I get really pissed off and leave feeling very disappointed.
Then I'll watch the movie everytime it comes on HBO and slowly get around to accepting the new ending and enjoying it, even if it sucks."
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it gives us a squid afterall Long live (ø‹›≈≈ !
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Nov 11, 2008 11:20:38 PM CST
Your fucking "squid" wasn't even in the graphic novel, dumbshits
by pagliacci
Go read it again. Ozymandias's monster was only briefly seen in a painting done by one of the artists. It never even appeared in NYC. These posters are decent, with the exception of Ozymandias, which is indeed bad. The character they have to get absolutely correct is Rorschach. And I think with Jackie Earle Haley they will. Everyone else can be tweaked for the big screen.
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I was wondering when some one was going to comment on her outfit. This is the first clear shot of her backside and all people can do is go on about the squid. Also, about her costume's front side: pelvic cleavage
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I suggest you re-read the book.
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Never before, in the history of talkbacks, forums and message boards the world over, has one mantra been repeated more often than "There must be a squid!"Why?Now, I might be crazy, in that I love Watchmen for its subtext and meaning rather than its pretty pictures, but I always thought the ending of the book was all about Ozymandias putting an end to all wars by uniting the world, something his great hero Alexander the Great tried and failed to do.Obviously, he achieved this by use of our tentacled friend, however am I the only one who spotted the huge flaw in the plan? Picture the scene:Leaders of the world: New York has been invaded by interdimensional squid-like beings. Quick! We must unite before we are all destroyed!Cut to two years of watching empty skies later:Leaders of the world: Boy, those alien invader things sure are taking their time getting here. I mean, we've obviously been pumping even more into our defence these days to combat our new enemy, so much so that our countries are almost bankrupt and our people are starving, but they still haven't shown up. Jeez, our armies are getting a bit itchy in the old trigger fingers here...Cut to another year of empty skies later:Leader of the most trigger happy nation on the planet: Goddammit I'm bored! To hell with this! We got plenty of bombs and I ain't waitin' for some tentacled sonofabitch to fall out the skies to use them! I'm gonna bomb some brown people while I'm waitin'!Ozymandias sure was lacking in the old forward planning there!That's without considering the whole boatload of extra problems the squid throws up.Firstly, in a world that is totally ordinary and mundane, sci-fi/fantasy wise, with the ONE exception of Jon, it suddenly throws in a whole new element of psychics.Secondly, whether the politics is Cold War or Post-9/11, America is still going to be the most paranoid nation on the planet. So if, during an escalating conflict, some weird psychic creature suddenly drops on New York and ONLY New York, the initial reaction of Americans both in power and out will not be "my god! The WHOLE WORLD is being invaded by aliens!". It will be "WE are being invaded!", closely followed (at least in the corridors of power) by "I don't believe in aliens. It must be a hoax! This is just a bomb with tentacles, goddammit!", closely followed by "That's it! We're launching nukes in retalliation!"The ending may work on an emotional level, but that isn't enough for mainstream cinema and it has some glaring problems from a logical perspective. That's why I'm all for the filmmakers trying new avenues that get across the basic message of the ending (Ozymandias tries a grand plan to bring about world peace, he believes he's succeeded, but it is hinted at least that Rorsharch foils him by revealing the truth in his journal, refusing to compromise even after his death), but attempts to make that ending work better from a cinematic point of view.Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Alan Moore is the world's first perfect human being and the Squid is the most essential part of any story ever told in the history of mankind, so much so that you could change King Kong to being a giant armadillo rather than a giant gorilla and it would make less difference...
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What are those splash pages at the start of Chapter 12 then, huh?
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Rereading Watchmen at the moment.
Utterly disappointed by the posters, besides the Comedian one.
Hopefully I am proved very wrong, but get the feeling, Zack is more worried about being artisitc than telling a greeat story, full of interesting characters. -
...my old asshole 7th grade Math teacher. Weird.
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...apostrophe!
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...Schneider from One Day At A Time! And , the chickened out on having him wear the S&M mask.
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I believe John A'Dreams = The Chess Player. Of course I also think he = Mr. Quimper (same style in clothing for one). Thoughts?
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I hope I'm wrong, but at best this looks like a rental. Granted, I've never read the comic, but if this is supposed to be "real world", how the fuck does a squid belong in it?Might as well just have a galactus type cloud show up too.
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I'd love to go back and forth about the merits or shortcomings of the Watchmen film and demonstrate my deep understanding of the source material and so on and so forth but shit all I end up doing is staring at that ass.
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Not having read the comic (like most people in the world), the idea of some sort of giant mutant space squid uniting Earth and ending war forever just seems, well, daft.
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..and really the great thing about the original books is the "mature and realistic fashion" in which the subject matter is treated, which at the time was SORT OF ground breaking. I've stated it before and I will again, the thing is in serious need of editing, I remember even as much as I enjoyed the books at the time when they came out I still knew by issue 11 that the damn thing was bloated as hell, semingly for no other reason than to simply round out an even 12. It was good, even great in many ways, but also seriously flawed, and I'm sorry to say, butt damn ugly, the coloring is absolutely horrendous beyond imagining, like someone puked a carnival midway on every page. Worth the read, though the advantage goes to reading an issue a month as originally presented, holding that goddamned phone book of a collection nowadays just would turn you off, big time.
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Nov 12, 2008 9:19:47 AM CST
Why is H.I. McDunnough lighting a cigar with a flamethrower?
by dr. magnifico
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C'mon, it's time. We want a trailer.
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from the first Hellboy?
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....why the Rorschach guy can run up buildings sideways and shit, if he is just a regular guy? Doesn't this sort of kill the theme of the entire story?
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this and avengers will be better than "the avengers" w/ fiennes and thurman. worst movie i've ever seen.
how the fuck does that movie even exist!? -
only the blue guy has 'real' powers, but Rorschach can run up buildings? Is he Tony Jaa, and if so, can he do FLAMING LEG KICKS?
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to include more broken arms and legs and snapped tendons.
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It's set in a dystopian but realistic world. The only person with superpowers is that blue geezer. Some other geezer can run up walls The smartest man in the universe has a plan to unite the world and stop war that involves a giant piece of calamari. Said piece of calamari has been removed for being daft It's been replaced with something else that you don't like. Bruce Campbell is not in it.ZAck Snyder is your god is that everything?
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Oh fuck this. I'm not seeing it. And I'm telling my whole block to boycott because they didn't get Bruce for The Comedian. They got that poor man's Javier Bardem guy.
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that was going to end the world.Such a missed opportunity.
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Why are you wasting your time trolling here..? Your uninformed jokes are pretty tired. Either go read something else, or read the (whole)book and discover what all the fuss is actually about, rather than what you think it's about?
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Ghostball has no sense of humour and pees himself when he talks to women Most of the world neither knows nor cares about Watchmen Said Blue Guy is naked with big swinging balls and you are all inexplicably pleased about this World's smartest man can catch bullets but isn't super powered? There's a fat guy that can only get it up (even with that chick) when he's got his costume on. They've deliberately put nipples on costumes, and you're inexplicably happy about this Reading Talkbacks full of fanatical weirdos is probably not the best place to get information from.
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Okay. Seriously.....Rorschach doesn't have powers of any kind right? Does it upset you he can run up walls ala Tony Jaa? Or do even the normal people do shit like this in the comic?
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This movie is going to have a tough time reaching an audience outside of the comic book readers. I mean, there's supposed to be a squid in this? From my understanding, these heroes are more like Batman and you don't see Batman fighting Moby Dick or irate starfish.
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No need to get personal - I'm getting help with the peeing problem and have been told I'm making admirable progress.
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The comic doesn't have shit like that - the movie's deliberately stylised, and I have no problem with that... the comic was always gonna be a pretty different animal.
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Very well played sir.
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I wouldn't say any of the characters act like anything like batman. They aren't superheroes, they aren't wish fulfillmet figures. They're broken people who happen to be able to fight, but they're not action-doll material, even if WB hopes otherwise. As to the 'squid' - they never 'fought' it... that was never part of the deal.
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and with Zack at the helm, I can only think this movie would shit on the comic's premise. I mean, they'll be slo-mo action, and probably lots of fighting. Are you confident that the script will follow the comic? Or is the blue guy always going to be in slow-mo?
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It just seems like having Rorschach run up walls completely destroys everything the comic is meant to represent. How are we to believe the plight of these wannabe superheroes with no powers if to us, the view-- they do indeed have powers. I'm not able to run up fucking walls. So I see those as powers. So by the end of it I'm thinking-- what the fuck? They do have powers. What the fuck are they bitching about?
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Was this intentional or did they really just not have the funds after investing in so much detail in the set design? I don't get it. You would think they would cast a few familiar faces as security. I mean this is a story nobody knows about afterall. P.S. Mystery Men looked much better than this.
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Don't know what I'd use it for. But it would be a cool thing to do nonetheless.
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and I bet you that Watchmen will be totally overrated.
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Just further example Snyder is all style over substance. I don't understand why the fans feel obligated to defend this. The books and the film can be two separate things. One can be awesome and one can fucking suck.
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This is a tough one. I need to think on this. I know I wouldn't want to be a fat inadaquete with the power of impotence.
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sorry. meant to say, the "fat guy" is played by Patrick Wilson, so that's one more nuance taking away.
I seriously think that if they were going to alter it, they should have brought William H. Macy's Shoveler character over to this film. Honestly, he would be 3 times as compelling as Rorshach.Imagine it. -
Although I'm a Squid-advocate, I must defend Snyder on this point. Running up a wall and flipping off of it is not a superhuman feat. Hell, look at Donald O'Connor's amazing "Make Em Laugh" dance routine in SINGING IN THE RAIN in which he literally runs up and flips off a wall repeatedly. That stated, Snyder can be legitimately criticized for his flashy, heavily stylistic action scenes. It concerns me as well.
(ø‹›≈≈ -
would be a great Nite Owl. He has the experience, since he used to play The Tick, which is essentially the same concept as Watchmen.
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You can justify people running up walls all you want. Yes I know this is possible to an extent. But the wire-fu running up walls stands out like a sore cunt. The general viewer looks at that and thinks of it as a super power to an extent, so it becomes a hard sell to convince these are regular people with absolutely no extraordinary ability.
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PointlessSquid. And I shall torment you in the most narrow minded and trollish fashion until this film sinks below the water leaving only the traces of shattered fanboy dreams gently floating on the surface.
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I had to blink and look again to make sure I knew who it was.
Hello, warciples!
And since I'm here and don't feel like skipping around, let me just comment that Pine's head on the new Trek poster is WAY huge, and the angle is physically impossible for a human to achieve. He's looking down with his face, with his eyes turned up in one of those glamour-boy poses, yet the size of that huge cranium suggests it was a nearly complete overhead shot, which of course it couldn't be, not with the face the way it is. What I'm saying is, it sucks. The Quinto Spock poster is okay. He actually looks like Spock and the shot is full-front. But that Pine poster is for wiping butts when the toilet paper runs out. -
it all depends on whether Watchmen is worth all that effort. At the moment I feel it isn't.
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Running up the side of a wall and flipping off of it is a human skill that even highly trained dancers can perform. It's not superhuman. Bear in mind that Moore's WATCHMEN never posited that its heros (aside from Doc M) were just regular Joes with no extraordinary skills or intellect. On the contrary, Nite Owl and Ozy had extraordinary *human* minds and *human* martial skills, as did Rorschach. I'm sorry, but running up a wall is not a superhuman ability beyond the pale of the original story. That's not a justification--it's a fact.
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I'm sorry but the general mainstream audience that makes or breaks a film do indeed see running up walls to be a super human skill. There are also people that can bend steel pipes in half, its still super human to ordinary folk.
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That's how it should look
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Birth defective squid.
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There's the aforementioned superpowered naked blue guy with swinging balls that you lot are pleased about. Then, the other guys that aren't superpowered are nearly superpowered? How do you catch a bullet without superpowers. This contradiction bothers none of you? Calamari is very tasty but not belonging in a watchmen film I've seen the picture and the lardass with the power of impotence isn't even a fatty There are nipples. Rubber ones, not the fun baby feeding ones. The main Villain looks like a bit, well, gay. Mystery men is better than this will be.
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Nice to see I'm not the only one who believes you can be a fan of Watchmen WITHOUT believing it to be perfect and above reproach.I recently read Preacher for the first time and believe it to be far superior, both in terms of artwork and storyline. It probably helps, though, that religion and philosophy have always held far more interest for me than politics.Even then, your "in need of editing" comment could be applied to Preacher as well. Again I think they had a set number in mind (66) and offered up a bit of padding to reach that number.I still think the most perfect graphic novel/limited run comic/whatever you want to call it I have ever read was James O'Barr's original Crow story. Possibly the darkest and most personal story ever told using the medium of the comic.
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I've lost a reference somewhere. Please take pity on this poor swiss-cheese brain and direct me to footage or reference thereto of Rorschach doing a wall-run. Seriously. Thank you.
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Where the fuck is this? Seriously? And which guy is the villain anyway? Its not the Chris O'Donnell looking guy in Robin suit is it?
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Fired or sauteed?
Marinara or Horseradish sauce?
Discuss. -
maybe that's how he's running up the side of the building. nite owl builds it for him. yes? no?
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Awwww fuck that. I like mine with marinara please.
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ozy (in the comic) is able to catch a bullet at various points in the story, yes. and yes, ozy is the guy who looks like robin because snyder wanted to 'comment' on how joel schumacher is a tit, which we all knew already anyhow.
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What? You really think Snyder deliberately made Ozy look identical to O'Donnell's Robin to comment on Joel being a tit? So the actual tits on the rubber chest plate are representative of what?
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and you're all happy with this? I'm completely lost now.
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and have to say that it sounds better than Watchmen. Mind you, fucking Archie sounds better than Watchmen. At least there's no naked blue guy with big swinging balls and an intergalactic appetizer in Archie.
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Watch 300 for proof!!
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that makes sense.
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yeah. that's what i'm saying because that's what the production has been saying. ozy's tits = joel schumacher is a tit.
how's life on /b/ treating you these days? -
Is that bridge getting bigger so your ego can fit underneath?
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Having been reading up about it: Watchmen is arguably the most important comic book ever, and the only one that transcends it's medium It has a naked blue guy with big swinging balls in it. It has lots of other guys, that aren't superheroes but can do superhero things such as run up walls and catch bullets. It has calamari saving the world It has a fat guy with the power of impotence that makes shit for the other guys The Bruce Campbell guy is a rapist that then tries to shag his own daughter, and inexplicably we're meant to give a fuck that someone murdered him. The fat guy gets over the power of impotence by putting his costume on. The masked guy is a nazi and we're meant to give a fuck about him. The nazi guy has magic cloth that moves around on his mask. Snyder has adapted all this shit fairly literally, except for being squidiphobic. There are inappropriate nipples. Joel Schumacher is a cunt. We all know this, yet one guy has been made to look like a gay love item in a piss poor joke that takes the piss out of schumacher that will zip straight over the heads of the audience. The mainstream neither knows nor cares about this Dark Knight Returns and Preacher are better Mystery Men is also better. Have I covered everything that we learn't in class today?
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no, you missed some stuff.
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Are his naughty bits super duper powered? Do they have thier own spandex? I seem to remember from the comic strip, his junk flops in the breeze.
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Nov 12, 2008 12:21:02 PM CST
uhhhh....isn't this still sort of a major spoiler?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Correct me if I'm wrong. http://tinyurl.com/5zzakc
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some spandex undies. If the Hulk isn't allowed to show his giant green cock and balls on camera then it strikes me as unfair that Doc Manhattan can. I may start a campaign: FREE HULK'S PIECE. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR GREEN COCK.
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So in the comic, is the dude who looks like Robin actually look like Robin? Or did Zach just change him completely to take a shot at Shumacher? That's stupid if he changed a character just to take a shot at a stupid director.
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So it doesn't matter. Plus purple pants wouldn't look good with blue skin.
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Nov 12, 2008 12:39:42 PM CST
I dont think Snyder actually took a shot at Joel....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...and uhhhhh people can slam him all they want. Lost Boys, Flatliners, Tigerland, Phantom of the Opera....yeah you got a ways to go Snyder. Maybe bring something original to the table next time.
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was to 'comment on' or 'parody' the outlandish costume designs of superhero films of recent years. specifically batman and robin. which to me says they were trying to be all meta meta meta like watchmen itself is, but didn't think very hard about it.
just pillow, no, ozy in comic does not look like the fey boy in the poster. he looks more like a nazi than rorschach does. -
Is that confirmed...it was meant to parody recent superhero costumes?
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...I've been hearing so much about. It's about damn time they made a sequel. I always thought there were more adventures waiting for Mr. Furious & Company. Is Casanova Frankenstein coming back for this? And The Shoveller now has a blowtorch? Awesome upgrade. So long as he keeps it away from The Spleen of course.
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constantly being repeated in this thread and others--over at the watchmen movie board--then yeah, i guess it's confirmed. i haven't seen concrete proof anywhere.
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Nov 12, 2008 1:29:39 PM CST
Hawaiian Organ Donor -- this is not Mystery Men 2 dude...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Oh thats stupid. What a bullshit justification for the shit suit. You shouldn't repeat that as if its fact.
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Just asking.
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I nearly shot hot coffee out of my nose on that one! He does look like 7 of 9. Fuck me that's funny.
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I mentioned that WAAAAAAY up top. I asked about Jeri Ryan having breast reduction surgery, because the nipples may be there but the sweater puppies sure as hell aren't.
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is that it's completely divorced from the simplicity and (okay, slightly queer-looking) elegance of his outfit in the book. I can accept the other costume changes, though reluctantly, but ALL of the changes they've made to Veidt and his use in the promotional materials seem designed to telegraph the fact that he turns out to be something far from what he seems.
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Have you checked out the first collection of Hellblazer? The artwork is spotty but that's some cool shit as well. I tell you the best thing I've read in ages recently was New Frontier, the Daryl Cooke Justice League origin. I know, men in tights but there's some excellent social commentary in that as well....jeebus.."there's some excellent social commentary"...what the fuck am I on Democracy Now! or something? Cripes I sound like a total douche, no wonder Danny Glover hands me my ass often.
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Please see rev_skarekroe's 5th post regarding this riff.
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Also, from a pure B&W artwork standpoint I read my bros copy of the Tomb of Dracula Masterwork and was F'ing blown away by Gene Colan's stuff. I want to say Tom Palmer inked it, hope I'm not wrong but jeebus that stuff is awesome.
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every movie ended with a giant squid. That would be heaven.
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laurie and bubastis?
you know it's coming. (ha) -
Yes, that was Tom Palmer. Marv Wolfman wrote and Colan and Palmer handled the art for a long damned time. It looked great in color, too. One of Marvel's best '70s comics.
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on stuff like DD and some of his Avengers stuff, so loose and half-assed, must've been the inkers because Tomb was just awesome.
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(ø‹›≈≈ Sorry about my tardy reply, I had to get some sleep. Quimper is John a' Dreams is Mr Quimper, and I though he was the Chess player for a long time, but there is this book called Anarchy for the Masses which is full of annotations and interviews about The Invisibles, and it says that the Chess Player is Satan. He was in a couple of scenes, that one with Robin when she finds the head of John the Baptist, and where he plays chess with Jack of course, and I think one of those scenes where King Mob takes one of his short cuts through the diseased universe. Oh yeah, he gives an apple that looks like the world to Mary Shelly in the Arcadia story too, I think. I don't know why it is supposed to be Satan, except that this book says Grant says it is. I like it better as John A'Dreams,and maybe it was because the point of the book is kind of that we are all just aspects of an objective all encompasing GODTHING that continually folds itself back into the time constrained reality in order to experience itself subjectively. Or maybe it is that our universe is a hologram formed by the overlapping of two higher order universes, one of which is healthy and one of which is diseased, and we are all just entities that jump around between these universes and shed our personalities and swap them out as we go. What I thought was cool was that the King of all Tears was Ragged Robin in the time suit all along. So when Jim Crow is charging his gun with erotic energy to fight the King of all Tears by looking at Robin's ass, he is really checking out the ass of the King of All Tears!! Hilarious. I've already read this shit like four times and I think I need to read it again. I think that soldier that King Mob killed and who later had his own solo death issue may be more important than I originally thought. Maybe he was also John A'Dreams. (ø‹›≈≈ (ø‹›≈≈
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is also one of those British guys, I forget what they were called, Mr. Six's friends, I forget which one, or maybe he was Sir. Miles... It's been a while. I know Sir Miles ended up being really important. I always like John A' Dreams being mysterious because he was the guy that made King Mob look like an amateur that was in over his head, and if they told us too much about him it might have been less creepy. "I am cool as Bruce Lee... I am cool as Bruce Lee... I am cool as Bruce Lee..." (ø‹›≈≈ (ø‹›≈≈
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Nov 12, 2008 8:29:44 PM CST
Try to equate this with "MM" marks you out as hilariously out of
by g100
Yeah we heard all that ludicrous shit about Mystery Men, what was it ? 3 or 4 months ago ? Longer probably ? As early as when there was almost no information on the Movie anyway ? So repeating it now not only makes you laughably unoriginal but woefully misinformed.
Try reading Watchmen. I know it's a radical fucking concept but rest assured after you do you won't make the pitifull error of confusing Watchmen with Mystery Men. Watchmens status as one of the greatest comics is absolutely safe. No amount of whining, out of context feeble attempts to take the piss will affect it's status WHATSOEVER.
Even if the Movie turned into a shitfest (unlikely since no-one who has seen the significant portions of it in the secret screenings so far has said it was a shitfest, quite the opposite) anyway EVEN if the Movie was a shitfest the comic remains the same.
If only it was more realistic like that Movie about the Guy who dresses up like a BAT to fight a dude in makeup. (We all know how terrible the Box Office for THAT was.) SERIOUSLY ? Who wants to watch such ludicrous nonsense about Bat fetishising vigilantes with technologically implausable gizmos and mutilated makeup crazies ?
Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. -
If your going to try and take the piss at least do it with FACTS, like oyu do so well with the NeoCon idiots in the Political talkbacks.
"It has a naked blue guy with big swinging balls in it." Mahatten first manifests himselfnaked as he reconstrcuts his body not his clothes. And his GRADUAL loss of clothing reflects his increasing isolation from scoiety and it's customs. It's a plot point. Besides you would be happier if he DIDN'T have balls ? What ? An anatomically "politically correct bump" ?
"It has lots of other guys, that aren't superheroes but can do superhero things such as run up walls and catch bullets." Like Batman you mean ? And the bullet catch is signposted as ludicrous deliberatley. It is after all the most common defect of all "superhero" films. The terrible fucking shooting of the "bad guys" and the invulnerabliliity of the "good guys to bullets.
"It has calamari saving the world." SPOILER** It destroys half of New York and is never given a name as it is meant to be lovecraftian horror (others have christened it squiddy etc. it's name is irrelevant) and it is CREATED just as the hugely improbable alien trheats created for Superman and all the other Superheroes are created. The Difference is Watchmen TELLS you it is created.
"It has a fat guy with the power of impotence that makes shit for the other guys" Nope. It has a Hero who used technology and his past phyicall fighting skill to fight crime.. like.. (work it out) And his impotence is a reflection of his having to give UP being a Hero. He regains his self respect when he returns to his "calling".
"The Bruce Campbell guy is a rapist that then tries to shag his own daughter, and inexplicably we're meant to give a fuck that someone murdered him." Nope. He never tries to fuck his own daughter. He KNOWS it's his own duaghter. And the FIRST time was attempted rape but not afterwards. And yet again it's a CRUCIAL plot point that NOBODY really gives a fuck he's died APART from Rorschach.
"The masked guy is a nazi and we're meant to give a fuck about him." He doesn't wear jackboots, and a fucking swasticka and he STARTED as grim but human he tries to save a child from a kidnap when no-one else gives a fuck about her. But the years in the criminal underworld took their toll and he develops a Zero tolerance for criminals as well as a ludicrously black and white outlook on life. Yet he is implacable and a force of pure will who will never compromise on what he thinks is right or wrong. The genius is we DO give a fuck about him despite his manifest crazyness and problems.
"The nazi guy has magic cloth that moves around on his mask." Nope. Nothing to do with "magic". The technology is an offshoot of Manhattensresearches and is not only explained but is another CRUCIAL plot point.
"There are inappropriate nipples. Joel Schumacher is a cunt. We all know this" We do indeed and some of said Ozy was a serious mistake when we first saw him months ago. How badly he will affect the Movie remains to be seen.
"The mainstream neither knows nor cares about this" Well those who went to see The Dark Knight know about it since it was the trailer and correct me if I'm wrong but that's quite a few fucking people. As to caring about it.. we'll see but the sales of the Comic have rocketed so it's clearly untrue to say there is no intrest.
Dark Knight Returns and Preacher are better. Nope Dark Knight Returns is VERY good but better ? not in my book and since it's obviously a matter of opinion hardly something that can be stated as fact TBH (Preachers pretty good (but again IMO) not in the same league as Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns or even Kingdom Come.
"Mystery Men is also better." Though it's opinion it's sooooooo far off the mark as to be dismissed with a laugh frankly.
"Have I covered everything that we learn't in class today?" You tell me, HAVE I ? -
More tomorrow. Great post. I'll respond in full, and I will bitch about the cop-out, bullshit conclusion of THE INVISIBLES (which, nonetheless, I consider the greatest comic series ever written).
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Hey guys, been a while Warciples. I've read Watchment a few times and really enjoy it as a comic, but I have to say that reading jarv's lists up there had me laughing and remembering how silly comic things sound when taken out of context. I won't bother trying to recount the details of Watchmen, or even trying to defend the "pointless" (or not) squid that plops onto NYC at the end. But I will say in order to best understand the whole (pointless?) debate, the best thing you can do is scare up a copy and read it. or at least skip to the end and gaze upon the giant vaginal calamari monster. At least pick it up in a bookstore, stand around and read a few pages and if you aren't compelled to read on, then flip to the end to see the squid. Otherwise it's like me trying to debate the origins of the "aliens" in They Live or how it is that humans just don't see the real words behind the subliminal messages when I've never even seen the movie to begin with. Chang ho, bros! Finky
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[SPOILER WARNING] A recent read of THE INVISIBLES verifies that it's still amazing, despite the random weirdness at the end. Still dissatisfied with the BIG climax, what with Dane "I ate them" and all...
What a cop out. Hell, I would've preferred even a Kingian conclusion (thinking along the lines of CARNIVALE) to that anticlimactic, Beatles-feel-good-"all you need is love" Bullshit ending. Grant, if you're going to go down the Lovecraftian route, PLEASE don't wuss out--follow through. Think how good it could've been with the gruesome (and possibly heroic) deaths of most if not all of the gang (which still would succeed only in a brief reprieve for the human race). Dane was way too powerful, and if they were going to go THAT route, Grant should've had him eat all the Great Old Ones and reveal that Dane was (in actuality) Nyarlathotep. Buddha my ass...
Vol 1 of THE INVISIBLES was undoubtedly the best in that you felt like the group was pretty ragtag, barely staying ahead of the horrors around them. I Vol 1, they did well against minor cultists and minor demons and fared pretty to very poorly (and often by the skin of their teeth) when faced with greater minds and horrors. They were ALSO really riding the line between sanity and insanity ( e.g., Jim Crow and--in a completely different sense--King Mob). Yes, Vol 1 was genius.Have you ever read ZENITH by Morrison? If you have, St. John seems like a template for John a'Dreams, doesn't he? If not, READ it immediately. Not nearly as good as THE INVISIBLES, but still amazing (and, imo, has a much more satisfying ending than TI). -
St. John reminds me of an occult-oriented Adrian Veidt.
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it tells the world to hate squids and makes them the enemies of mankind, when they are in fact innocent marine creatures being scapegoated for the actions of some gay douche with nipples on his rubber suit.
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Just Boring
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Fuck me. I didn't know that.
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what's wrong with some Hulk-style spandex?
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I read an interpretation that stated that he had the power of impotence due to serious self-esteem issues and the fact that he feels totally inadaquete compared to his costumed persona. Therefore, he doesn't get wood when he returns to his true calling- he remains the same fat inadaquete he always was.
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I stand corrected. That is very clever.
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that was attempted satire. Neocon's aren't smart enough to do that. Hmph. Say sorry.
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...Zack 'All Your Watchman Now Are Belong To Us' Snyder thinks some of us are a bunch of squid-loving anal whiners who need to get a life...
Well let me tell you something Zack, we - Oh *observes mirror*. Sorry - right you are. Carry on. -
A SUBTLE difference but in the end it's the same weakness almost every Superhero story either ignores, has a technological "fix" OR like Watchmen tackles head on.
I already said WHY the bullet catching thing was included. It's clearly preposterous BUT this is supposedly the smartest guy on the planet honed to the peak of physical perfection (which is WHY he shouldn't look like a fey gothic gimp Snyder you fucking idiot. He's supposed to be Charles Atlas, a Doc Savage style self made man) THE most ridiculous thing about Heroes and Superheroes is their seeming indifference to guns and bullets. Even with Batman's tri-weave topsheet (keeps you fresh, safe AND active even on your heaviest flow days) Ahem.. "Armour" exactly what the fuck is to stop anyone shooting Batman in the face ? Particularly with a shotgun, say ?
Moore tackles it head on and acknowledges how ridiculous it is but at the same time imbues Ozy with enough of the same type of backstory of rigorous training in "mysterious" Martial and fighting arts that all these Heroes get so it's the same trope taken to it's ultimate conclusion.
NiteOwl is all about Dual identity and which is the stronger and which is the "true" identity. Driberg is in Rorschachs words is a "flabby failure" BUT Rorschach seeks him out because he knows NiteOwl is still in there somewhere and he does reappear after the rescue and in the prison breakout. So Rorschach is proved right and both NiteOwl and Silk Spectre are forced to admit that, like it or not, the costumed hero part of their lives and persona can't simply be discarded without consequences to their "normal" lives. They are both "incomplete" without them.
Manhattan DOES wear a costume. To begin with it's full body, then it becomes shorter then it becomes underwear THEN he simply doesn't care how he looks after he "rejects" the last of his "humanity".
And reread my post Jarv. You must know I was complimenting you on attacking the NeoCon idiots not calling you one, so presumably this is some double bluff piece of satire on your part. In which case, well done. ;-)
BTW Where exactly is the part where Rorschach "runs up a wall" ??? The only thing that comes close is he vaults up onto a climbing frame and that isn't quite the same as running up a wall ? He never looks like spiderman. Besides which, we SEE that Rorscach is definitely NOT a Matrix style "hero" when he jumps out that window. BELIEVE ME that doesn't end well for him.
Though it must also be remembered Rorschach IS physically formidable. Not due to any super regimine of mystical training or healthy diet (bean shlomping and sugar cubes are not exactly the Ozy fitness plan) Rorschach is formidable because he has been doing tt for years almost non-stop. He never quit and he doesn't take a holiday or a break and he doesn't HAVE any other life. Being Rorschach is almost all he ever does. More than any of the other "Heroes" he "fights crime" constantly. He simply cannot take the Mask off. He IS Rorschach.
Now I'm not saying anyone NEEDS to like Watchmen, because they obviously don't. But comparing it to Mystery Men is a joke. It's not even close. Christ even the Tick would be a closer parallel. It also has a MASSIVE Blue impervious superhero a Batman "style" Hero a fighting hot chick and, well there IS a mothman in both.
But the Tick is pure satire and Parody and so is Mystery Men. Watchmen isn't. It's far more complex and clever. It does indeed take some satirical swipes at the Superhero and Superteam stories, style and ideas but it's more than smart enough to do so without ever becoming pure farce or parody or just played for laughs. -
I want to specifically talk about that stupid costume. The accepted version at the moment is that they've deliberately made the "world's smartest man" who is in perfect physical condition into a "fey gothic gimp" (I like that), to paradoy/ satirise Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin. If this is the case, and I accept that Watchmen is a deconstruction of the superhero mythos, yada yada yada, then why on earth are they choosing to parody a film that came out over 10 years ago and was accepted as being an abortive fag-fest at the time? Watchmen as deconstruction was relevant when it was written, this is not.It doesn't make any sense at all, and strikes me as being, well, stupid and inappropriate.
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...definitely the elephant in the Watchmen movie room at the moment, but if that's the worst we have to put up with, I can live with it. Anybody caught that youtube camcorder footage of a sneak screening of the movie on youtube, where Rorshach discovers Edward Blake is the Comedian? So tonally right its chilling (oh, and no - it's not in slo-mo, wiseasses). I'm trying real hard not to build up my expectations, but I'm getting the strange woozy feeling that despite the outrageous gargbage of 300, Snyder's actually going to knock this one out of the park. Shit - I'm doing it again...
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Let's keep this TB going. Don't let it end.
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Ok- given that as DocManhatted starts to reject his humanity throught the funny book is the reason for him getting his junk out, then if the film, for the sake of decency (I feel no desire to see a big swinging pair of blue balls), decided to keep his spandex underoos, would this upset you?
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...but I really won't notice much either way. Will you?
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Hmmmm. That's what I get for not reading the talkbacks first.
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can't say I will. But I'm not worried about authenticity of the film compared to the comic. And what's wrong with giant blue junk?
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I respect you a lot more now that you admit 300 is indeed trash. And you don't see Zach Snyder as the Messiah many others do around these parts. Good for you.
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Doc M's nudity is a minor detail. Snyder seems bent on keeping all of these little touches whilst letting the CLIMAX OF THE FUCKING WATCHMEN be changed beyond recognition. And this is why Snyder doesn't get it: he's taking style over substance. He can't understand why keeping the manufactured Lovecraftian Horror (or at least a sensible alien-threat in its proxy) is infinitely more important than keeping "God is real and he's American" in the film. Fuck you, Zach Snyder. Talk about an empty fucking suit (or in this case, a tank top). Hey, Snyder--go back to the gym and stay there, you fucking air-headed dipshit.(ø‹›≈≈
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Zack Snyder is not god. He's a prick with some crap ideas. Giant blue junk, while in the comic, is a non essential detail that Snyder is keeping for no apparent reason. The Calamari has a vagina. The Calamari is called squiddy. The calamari is in itself not essential. However, some kind of alien threat is. It would be fine to change the vagina faced calamari to a.n.other alien, but not to what has been chosen. Ozymandis looks like an inflatable fuck toy and you're not happy about it. Even though Rorschach can run up a wall, and Ozy can catch bullets, this is acceptable for a normal human because it is a deconstruction and shows the absurdity of comics as a medium. Having said that, Rorschach running up a wall is still Snyder being a style addicted wanker.300 sucks ass.You're not all that enthusiastic and are actually puckering the nearer it gets to release.
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How can you say that to this guy?
http://tinyurl.com/6s56as -
I definitely don't want to see this as it seems more and more diehards think this will shit the bed. Or if I do see it, then I most definitely shouldn't read the comic as it seems the movie will not follow the comic as it should be.
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You sound bitter about the fact that Snyder can fill a T-shirt. But there's no need to be - YOU TOO can have the body you always dreamed of... by using the VEIDT METHOD. Go for it, my friend... the NEW YOU awaits!
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Yeah thats what I don't get. The fans of the comic don't seem to really fancy the look of the movie for the most part, yet they post these two slightly contradictory statements back to back.
"I don't know if Snyder can pull this off...."
"I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT FOR THIS!!"
Its that sort of blind dedication the studios are banking on. What do they give a fuck about the quality of a film if the douche bags will put their asses in seats regardless?And that whole notion that the Ozy's costume is meant to say something about comic films....BLA BLA BLA....fuck off with that bullshit. Nobody is fucking thinking like that. It was simply a design choice and you fuckers can't accept that Snyder's costume sensibilities are no different than Joel Schumacher. I personally have no problem with this-- I thought Robin's suit was great. But don't sit here pretending like Watchmen is something its not. It is not sitting on this higher plane of existence than all other comic films. Give me a fucking break. -
The problem with most TB'ers is not that can't fill a shirt. They can fill a shirt just fine.....they can fill a shirt a little too well. Myself included.
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Heh. Pretty good rejoinder there, bud.BTW, I agree that the Ozy-Schumacher commentary is weak.
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It is not the creature, but what it represents - *spoiler* - alien invasion, that is important. I have read and re-read, and re-re-read Watchmen, it is a great comic, and deserves it's rep as one of the best comic book series/graphic novels whatever - although in my humble opinion, The Dark Knight Returns is superior. That being said, the squid only matters in the scheme of Ozy's plan on *spoiler* representing an alien invasion. In the movie, I think a multi-colored ugly as sin squid would elicit far too many giggles, and thus destroy what the movie was going for. All ofthis is conjecture, because no one has seen the entire movie. Still, even in the comic, I thought the squid was jarring and could have been portrayed by another type of creature of moore had so chosen. <
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I've got to state: for the most part, your summary is pretty dead on this time (at least when it comes to my opinion)...Now mind you: detailed touches like Doc M's nudity would be nice to be included in the film as a nod to the comic, but they are not essential. And, yes--any kind of alien threat, preferably from a Lovecraftian, unfathomable source, would work so much better than Doc M nukes (which is, to say the least, a senseless substitution). Film Ozymandias looks terrible. To be fair, though, all the other characters look pretty great.I still don't have a problem with R running up a wall, though you're right that it is another example of action-Snyder-style gone wild.300 was an amusing bit of fluff. As a serious movie, it's a complete failure. As an over-the-top, hammy, stylistically out of control bit of hilarious cinema, it was quite a success. And--no--I'm not waiting on WATCHMEN with baited breath anymore. Snyder pretty much lost me when he was quoted as stating this condescending, characteristically moronic bit:"The fans, god love 'em, they're all up in arms about the squid. What they should be up in arms about are things like shooting the pregnant woman, 'God is real and he's American', whether THAT's in the movie. That's my point of view, maybe I'm crazy."That pretty much told me all I need to know about where Snyder was headed with the WATCHMEN film adaptation.
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I think the squid could've worked with some modification to design. Think Cthulhu (which was clearly what Moore was thinking of when he wrote WATCHMEN). Any kind of unexpected, Lovecraftian horror appearing in Manhattan and blowing the mind of sensitives around the world would do the trick. But Snyder isn't even substituting the squid with an alien threat of a conventional kind. *SPOILER (though I doubt it's needed this deep in TB)* Ozymandias is framing Doc M--making it look like he's pulling a DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL by nuking cities all over the world. Never mind that Doc M is an AMERICAN and the loss of major cities around the world would destroy the global economy. No other country would believe the US's assertion that Doc M had gone rogue. WWIII would come even more quickly as the world cried out for vengeance against the blue american devil. At best the world would live in fear for a while and then go back to their cry for vengeance against the US when they realized Doc M wasn't coming back. This is a TERRIBLE change to WATCHMEN's climactic moment--the moment the whole story was inexorably leading towards throughout eleven chapters. I'm not bitching about something small--some minor detail--here, guys. This isn't some fan-boy whining about Glorfindel being taken out of the FOTR. This is the fucking climax of WATCHMEN being replaced with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT resolution (an incredibly inane one at that). It is a resolution that literally ruins the story as a whole. Shit, even the stupid fucking death ray from the skies (which was the change in a screenplay some years back) would be better than Doc M nukes around the world.
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Actually, that spoiler alert was necessary - I did not know about the chang! Heh heh. Oh, well, no biggie. Anyway, lets address that change. In the book, you have a solitary 'alien' invading a solitary American city, and this suffices to halt all threats of global violence and unite the planet. Uh, nope. Aint gonna work that way. People, and especially countries, are not that selfless. If the 'great satan' was getting pounded by an alien threat, then while it would no doubt cause consternation, it would not cause people to change their attitudes and suddenly say, 'hey we better help them'. Just flip the script. Say that Germany, or Japan, during height of WWII were invaded by an alien. Would we stop all hostilities towards them and attack the alien? Nope. Say the soviet uniion during height of cold war was attacked, would we just forget about all other conflicts? Say, that Afghanistan, under the Taliban was attacked, right after 9/11. Would we help? Nope. The squid was a comic book convention. That a solitary threat unites all mankind. But the real world requires a different motivation. It requires a personal - this is affecting me, motivation. It requires nukes, or some other event to happen in my country, my city, not just someplace half-way around the globe. And especially not a country quasi or fully inimical to mine. Would Israel support Iran if a giant squid wiped out Tehran? I have zero problem with the change - outside of framing Mahnattan, who is supposed to know about that type of stuff. I know the the 'tachyons' prevent him somehow, but still, given his abilities, I would think he would have known something was up. It will be interesting to see. As far as destroying global economy, chaos breeds opportunity. If Ozy is as smart as he says, he will only target cities whose loss economic output can be absorbed by a global community. Remember, as bad as katrina was, and we almost lost an entire American city, and countless lives, America would have been able to absorb the impact.
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That's actually pretty bad> I just thought that he'd removed vagina-calimari to fanboy squawking. I didn't realise he was doing all this "god" shit. Moore will do one, he's proper atheist.
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If naked blue guy= God then it's just plain retarded to try to frame him. That's just silly, and impossible to explain without a whole lot of exposition
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The Squid attack--a Lovecraftian horror outside of conventional time and space--WOULD bring the VAST majority of the world together for this simple reason: the attack was outside the world--utterly--and could thus be a threat to ANY country ANYwhere. People this unthinkable catastrophe unfold (and, a crucial point, FEELING the horror in their MINDS the world over) would cease thinking of themselves as belonging to any given nation and start thinking of themselves as belonging to the WORLD. It's a brilliant concept, and it works far better than any conventional method would. It's my opinion, but I'm not alone in that line of thinking...
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It's actually completely wrong for Snyder to frame naked blue guy for global nuclear strike. In the funny book, which is a deconstruction of steroetypes in comic books, Vaginacalimari flattens new york. Right? Flattening New York or A.N. American city is totally a superhero convention- to flatten new york with a giant vagina appetiser is therefore silly and makes the convention look silly. To change this to naked blue big swinging balls crushing the world misses all this. Especially when you're trying so hard to get all the minor points, and dressed your villain as a gay sex toy to make one of them. Snyder is a cunt.
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Fuck. Someone should have told me.
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...why is it dropped for every single movie with big a monster that has dropped in the past 2 years? What the fuck? I've never read a word of Lovecraft, and it would piss the fuck out of me if I wrote a monster film and everyone were jerking off over it for being so Lovecraftian. Is Godzilla Lovecraftian?
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about Lord of The Rings (Ringwearer9, for example) is that they always complain about the wrong thing. They might (and I say might) have a point if they complained about moving Shelob from 2 Towers to Return of The King- which is stupid because it gives Return of the King 3 climaxes, and 2 Towers 1 instead of 2, thereby unbalancing the pair of them- which shows because neither is a patch on the first one.
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Did you just compare Zach Snyder to Adolph Hitler?
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Nov 13, 2008 11:58:10 AM CST
Lost Jarv -- I agree with that bitch Shelob...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...it was the perfect cliffhanger ending for Two Towers and they fucked it all up.
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No, it's Giantlizardian. I think it has to have tentacles to be Lovecraftian. But I'm not sure.
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Stupid fucking generalization.
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If they had put Shelob at the end of Towers it wouldn't have been in the proper timeline.
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It's just a famous quote- and I think it is Ozymandias' rationale for being such a bog-brush.
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Helm's Deep battle and the Ent battle.
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Nothing wrong with that. Without a doubt singular events can unite a vast majority of the planet in outrage or sympathy - 9/11 is a prime example. But, it also serves as an example of how quickly that sympathy can be lost. True, Bush squandered that sympathy. But, unless you have a clear and constant threat to use that empathty/sympathy against, it will evaporate. The squid was a singular event, which I grant you would be jarring (but would look silly in the movie), but it was only one monster, in one city. And eventually, the shock would wear off. There would be no constant enemy to be attacked. It would be an event taking place halfway around the globe. People would become inured to it, and once that happened, they would become complacent. The only way to keep that heightened sense of planet wide peril alive, is to have it personally affect people worldwide.
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So what? It would have been dramatically better. It's also a split narrative, so it doesn't matter when you put it. To be honest, I'm not a great fan of ROTK, but I think it would have been immeasurably improved by moving Shelob out of it- and shortening the climb in the 2 Towers. Less of the tedious hobbit on hobbit action and more of the good stuff. Not to mention the fact that Jackson shortened a lot of ROTK to accomodate this switch. I just think it would have been a much better balance.
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Who watches the Watchmen? The COC watches the watchmen.
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I would rather them alter the time line......the ending is part of the reason I feel TT was the weakest of the trilogy. It needed much more.
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Take it from a noted toadkiller
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is actually usually reserved for a kind of horror story, most often psychological, but also dealing with more cosmic, mysterious and alien forces that are not on a relatable level to humans, but vastly greater in scope and breadth. It's the horror of man finding he is insignificant against the greater forces and those forces are not benign but malignant.
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Anything involving the Ents should never be discussed on this site again. Fucking pathetic. Its as if Jackson was intentionally trying to destroy the pacing of Helm's Deep. I know!! Lets cut back to the fucking trees talking for 10 minutes right in the middle of this massive fast paced battle scene!!
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but in fact, Ents suck balls and the battle was reported by Merry and Pippen to the rest. Therefore. that could also have been dramatically shortened and told in flashback. The main narrative thrust is Aragorn on one side and Frodo on the other. The narrative climaxes should feature these 2 characters. Problem solved. Jesus, I'm not even that much of a fan of the books, and I'm doing this. I have a rule with it- every time you see poetry: turn the page. It's much less painful if you do this.
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That may be the true meaning, but you know what I'm saying-- right? People throw the "LOVECRAFTIAN" term around like its a sack of free blowjobs.
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I thought it was a giant lizard. you learn a new thing every day.
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They usually cost £50 erm. Whoops. Never mind. Carry on *Strolls away whistling*
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I can't believe that anyone actually wanted to see this cunt on the screen.
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Methinks he has been pissed off all these years being called a 'giant lizard'. But, frankly, being an amphibian is no great shakes either.
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Here is one description: "Though not an amphibian, Godzilla has an amphibious lifestyle; he spends half of his life in water and the other on land to either wreak havoc or save the day. He is as adept a fighter underwater as he is on land. Capable of marching on the sea floor or swimming by undulating his tail like a crocodile, Godzilla is displayed as being able to breathe underwater (occasionally hibernating in the ocean depths between movies), and being submerged apparently does not impede his atomic ray. He engages opponents in the sea on multiple occasions, fighting King Ghidorah, Ebirah, Battra, Biollante and Mothra either beneath or on the surface of the waves. " Here is another: " Like other sea creatures, Godzilla requires gills to breathe (though, like an amphibian, he seems also to have lungs and thus can survive on land as well). " I think he hates being called a lizard more than being called an amphibian.
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lizards, blowjobs, or the failings in LOTR?
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and they're reptiles.
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Nothing apart from fish can hibernate underwater. that's called drowning. And I seem to remember something about amphibians dissolving in salt water.
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..............Moving swiftly on.
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So, I admit my antipathy towards it's appearance.
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Can't we just all agree to classify Godzilla as a HUSTLA'?
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are the following monsters Lovecraftian: Stay Puff Marshmallow Man. Kong Xenomorphs The thing that Robert Englund turns into in Jack Brooks (apologies if you've not seen it, but that isn't really a spoiler), The squid in 20,000 leagues under the ocean (the good one with James Mason. Fuck you all, I like it). Galactus I'll think of some more in a moment.
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why Watchmen is cool? Haven't read the graphic novel but nothing about the teaser has me interested.
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We may need to have a whole new classification for him. But he aint a lizard! He hates being called a lizard. He thinks it is racist. Of course he did call King Kong a 'Giant Monkey'. Whoo, did that piss off Kong!
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Lindsay LohanCthulu (only kidding. I know he's dickensian as a result of being raised in a Victorian London Orphanage) Predator Predalien Alan Moore's beard (Have you seen the fucker? it's got planet death written all over it) THE BATES (ditto) That'll do.
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Its sorta like what a Lethal Weapon 5 should be-- Joe Pesci, strippers, Danny Glover slobbering all over himself while being tortured, and shitloads of cock.
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Giant blue balls swinging around. That seems to be the gist of it.
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Hahaha. I wonder how an actual British orphan would feel if you told him, "Ya' know kid....you are rather Dickensian, aren't ya?"
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I'd give you some internets, but Mrs. Jarv wasted them.
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It was over 100 years ago.
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http://tinyurl.com/ypy9jx
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Have fun deconstructing the Talkback mythology Changian soldiers.
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Why does no-one listen to me about this? Fucker's more cracked than a fat person's toilet seat.
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I've achieved NOTHING today. And now I'm really off.
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So count me in
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Nov 13, 2008 12:46:12 PM CST
I'm gonna be Alan Moore for Halloween next year...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....but everyone will just think I'm Rob Zombie. FUCK!!
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Check out that fucker's rings!! http://tinyurl.com/5sbcg2
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Maybe its some sort of vibrating mechanism he sticks up his ass on his lunch break, and then slides it out, wipes the clumps of shit smears and hair on a paper towel, stares at the shit blot for a few weeks, and maps out further adventures of The Watchmen based on what he sees.
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None of the cited examples that I'm aware of (not familiar with Xenomorphs or Jack Brooks) are Lovecraftian. Even Galactus, as powerful as he is, has an anthropomorphic appearance. A Lovecraftian monster is one that's very presence potentially drives human beings insane by their utter Otherness. These beings are malignant in every way--though not evil. Lovecraft's Great Old Ones (e.g., Cthulhu) don't care a fig for humanity any more than we care about ants (and Their mental and physical prowess dwarfs human beings' accordingly). So DANNYGLOVER, if you're annoyed by this adjective, why not read some Lovecraft so you can intelligently bitch at people when their using the term inappropriately. As for WATCHMEN's Squid--that's as Lovecraftian as it gets (which is one of the reasons it works as an elegant solution--at least temporarily).Speaking of which, I think one of Moore's central issues regarding this solution is that it IS only temporary. "Nothing ever ends," Doc M states mysteriously, and he's pointedly referring in part to Veidt's so-far successful plot. I argue, though, that Moore's original climax--were it possible to pull off--would indeed work perhaps long enough to establish some sort of long lasting peace. Doc M going haywire and threatening the world? No fucking way. All that would create would be panic and chaos and vengeance against the US. Remember, the psychic explosion that kills folks around the epicenter and is felt the world over is one of the most compelling reasons everyone the world over would huddle together in fear and unity against a common threat. This isn't 9/11. This is the possibility of utter, careless, and hideously alien genocide of our whole species.
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Fuck all y'all.
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On the twitch TB you asked who was the person Ankin something or other threatened to and I quote "I will come to your house and fuck your shit up" That was me. I invited him over. Oddly enough he never showed and I provided all the info he neeeded to use his internet mojo to find me, even overseas. I told him where I was.Surprisingly enough, I've got that threat more then a few times around here, including one by a former reviewer. Jarv was threatened by this same person.
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Whose internet moniker is an ancient Greek weapon. Everyone knows that
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...but Peter handled it like absolute fucking shit. Why on Earth would you destroy the pace of Helm's Deep and cut back to Tree Beard mumbling for ten minutes. I remember Peter saying they trimmed the films down by cutting anything that didn't directly influence the mission. What the fuck?!! Tree Beards "We have decided you are not Orcs." Uhhhh....we didn't need it. Its not funny. It was stupid to have John Rhys do the voice, he sounds exactly fucking the same as Gimli. The hours of Merry and Pippin sitting on Tree Beard look like shit with some weak ass green screen work. What a waste of cool talking tree characters. You would think this would be easy to get right....
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Hitler never said that lie quote you attribute to him, that was Propoganda Minister Joseph Goebbels.
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not the images but they do look like cheap overly Photoshopped work...not sure how this slipped past quality control.
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...throwing rocks and shit. It just looked fucking retarded. I fucking hate every minute of them and it makes me mad I do. Prince Caspian handled the trees much much better. I always thought the Ent attack should be more like what they were able to do there. Make it fast, violent, and showcase their size and might. We should have seen the bulk of the Ents attacks from the Orc perspective, looking up at their massive size from the ground. Instead we get these huge wide shots where the CG Orcs running around look like shit, the scale of the Orcs isn't impactful, and the flood scene showcases poorly detailed miniature work.
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Your criticism is valid but it's not unheard of to cut away from an intense battle sequence to give the audience a breather or a laugh. It is a legitimate editorial device
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You obviously like the 'lovecraftian' element of the squid. My argument is that the squid is totally irrelevant. Consider: It is the psychic blast that is felt worldwide that did the trick. If that 'alien' had landed in NYC, and destroyed it, without benefot of psychic blast, it would not have the effect Moore was trying to convey. So, any creature, or event, coupled with the psychic blast would have sufficed. A nuclear blast, or several, combined with the psychic blast, would have sufficed. And before you dismiss that, consider this: During the height of the coldwar, people in countries that did not have the bomb - which was just about everyone other than U.S and Soviet Union, were terrified by it. Without any help of psychic blasts. Now, combine an actual thermonuclear explosion, or several, give it a psychic boost of fear that you are next, and voila. Instant dread and fear of the perpetrator. Instant outrage. Instant 'lets get him before he gets us' group think.
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I understand that, and it works for other films. For me it was the nail in the coffin for TT. That film is already the weakest by far.....and that just destroyed anything it had going. As an editorial device it would have worked had they cut to something a tiny bit interesting.
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I never gave that much thought to LOTR 2 but you are right on with your statements. Too much tree and not even good effects work...very odd...maybe PJ has a leaf fetish.
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You really shouldn't let the Ents get to you. You're letting the terrorists win
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The whole Ent attack scene was poorly executed and it should have been one of the best moments in the entire series. Instead it was ten minutes of some of the worst special effect work I think I've ever seen. Sometimes the Ents looked like lincon logs with fake vegitation from model trains stuck to them.
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Nov 13, 2008 1:33:33 PM CST
TerryMalloy -- it is un-American to hate The Ents....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...thats what makes me sad. I know.
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makes Sound of Thunder look like Starship Troopers.
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its also the horrible writing of their dialogue, the editing, and their method of attacks.
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should have been shaved down a LOT. It didn't warrant a long subplot. Simple stuff, really: Pippin and Merry meet Treebeard, there's an entmoot, the ents decide to go to war against Saruman, and they do it. Simple. No need for dull-witted Treebeard being tricked by Pippin into going to war (ha)! And, yeah--the design of Treebeard was good, but the execution on the closeup shots sucked. With the hobbits on Treebeard's shoulder, I felt like I was suddenly watching THE NEVERENDING STORY.BTW, the Watcher in the Water is Lovecraftian (a mysterious beastie of unfathomable power that the fellowship has to run away from and who even Gandalf doesn't know or understand). THE SILMARILLION's Ungoliant makes the Lovecraftian grade too (i.e., no one knows where she came from--the Outer Dark?--and she was fell enough to kick Morgoth's ass ten ways till Sunday).
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Sorry Watchmen folk..... we could have taken you back to the top....but I gotta split. New Twitch TB is callin!
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Feel free to come join us in the Twitch TB's anytime. Great discussions on all things Kurt Russell, Richard Nixon, lactating tits, Evil Dead, John Carpenter, Europeans, Charcoal Barbecues, cocaine, Rowan Atkinson, and David Duchovny's sex addiction.
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you're proving my point:"Now, combine an actual thermonuclear explosion, or several, give it a psychic boost of fear that you are next, and voila. Instant dread and fear of the perpetrator. Instant outrage. Instant 'lets get him before he gets us' group think."Precisely. Even with said psychic blast, Doc M's apparent involvement would point to the United States as the common enemy of the world. Doc M and thus America are the perpetrators. And the world would plot retaliation for the perceived attack from an American tool (i.e., Doc Manhattan).The beauty of an appearance of a Thing from Another Dimension is that the countries of the world would have no terrestrial threat to point the finger of blame towards. This would be a threat truly from Outside--and, thus, it's reasonable to assume that the countries of the world might consider setting aside their differences and begin unifying against the threat of a foe much greater and fouler than they could have dreamed.Veidt is hoping for this worldwide epiphany in response to his artificial alien attack: We are all one human species living upon a small mote in the face of the great Unknown. Small time nationalism expands worldwide as nations unite, and we all basically become earthlings rather than Americans or Iraqis or Chinese, etc. That's what Veidt is aiming for, and--as misguided and idealistic in the long run as it is even with the Squid--framing Doc M with multiple nukes around the globe and a threat to make peace would not do the trick even temporarily. <BRThere would be no unity in the face of a terrestrial attack from Doc M. And WWIII would follow very shortly.
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(ø‹›≈≈And I'll drop by on Twitch. Thanks, Dickblood. You're good people.
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Not if America's greatest city was also destroyed. If NYC was blown away, or at least mostly destroyed, no one in their right mind would think it was an American plot. Also, consider this: Doc M is so far removed from human normal, that his very appearance causes people to fear him Let alone his near godlike powers. He is thought less an American, than an 'alien' already. Combine that fear of him already with the nuking of America's greatest city (eliminating any doubts of his worldwide ambitions), add the nuking of cities around the world, throw in some psychic compulsion, and you have the unifying event that Moore was trying to convey. And you do not need the squid to do it.
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Well damn. You're not buying my rationale, and I'm not buying yours. Moore would obviously agree more or less with me, but the author's intent doesn't necessarily mean my argument is the best one. I will state this: in the confusion of multiple nukes--with Doc's signature or not--there would be mass hysteria and general chaos on a level this world has never seen. The chances of the Soviet and American leaders' taking the detonations instantly as attacks from the other side would undoubtedly cause a kneejerk reaction to retaliate in kind with nukes. Remember, their fingers are already on the button. A nuke attack would certainly push them over the edge. It is half expected anyway.And Doc M is considered American through and through. People who have actually been in his presence feel his godlike force, but he's DEFINITELY considered an American tool by the world (and has proven himself to be one in 'Nam for one). In fact, his presence is the only thing preventing the tensions between America and the USSR from exploding in the first place. It is my firm belief that your argument presents a scenario which is MUCH more problematic than mine (and--yes--Moore's).
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Remember, it is not the event alone, but the psychic compulsion, that triggered the unifying feeling. And lets address the nuclear explosions in question. If the time period is the same in the book - 1985, or even today for that matter, thermonuclear explosions of the type that could level a city the size of NYC, can only happen through MRV - multiple warhead re-entry vehicles. Airbursts from a missile. Missiles can be tracked - even way back in the sixties we could track incoming missiles, not a lot we could do about it, but we would know where it came from. Maybe a Sub-based missile could not be tracked - I honestly do not know, but considering the amount of targets, it should be easily discernible that they could not have all come from subs. Now, perhaps you are thinking it was a bomb smuggled in. Well, sure could have happened. But a thermonuclear bomb has different characteristics depending on where it explodes. Meaning: an airburst - which does considerably more damage, than a ground level explosion. And it is easily discernible. So, if the Soviet Union and the United States, would have been attacked simultaneously - presumably, not to mention all of the other cities attacked - simultaneously, and it could be easily proven not to be missile launched attacks, and Sub based attacks could not account for all of the cities worldwide that were attacked, it would sow mass confusion as to who did it. There are communications open at all times with former Soviet Union - even at height of cold war, simultaneous nuclear explosions on every continent, would make even the most trigger happy warriors on both sides pause. Combine that with no missiles being tracked, and it leaves you with ground level - or some other type, of device. It would quickly be determined that no country on the planet possessed the capability of carying out such attacks. So, who then? Who has that ability? Add to this. The framing of Doc M by Ozy, and the psychic compulsion, and you get a plausible scenario. I am not saying it is full proof. Nor, was it the right thing to do to the movie. I am saying it is far, far better than a squid.
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I understand your rationale, but it's much more problematic and much less interesting and unexpected than the squid solution. There's a reason that Moore didn't go down this road. The basic, inescapable fact is this: Doc M, despite his godlike powers, is an American citizen. He is an American tool. Psychic blast or no, there's not one leader in the world who would believe that America wasn't in on the attack. It would not bring the world together. It would drive them even further apart (and would destroy the global economy to boot). The attack CANNOT be terrestrial for it to work. Veidt knew this. The Doc M attack is an incredibly flawed one. And twenty years plus of delighted WATCHMEN readers would indicate that the Squid solution worked just fine.
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Nov 13, 2008 3:30:22 PM CST
Fishus, do you know the holy cities of Mecca and Medina?
by toadkillerdog
Would you believe that Saudi's would destroy their holiest cities in order to mask a greater attack on the world perpetrated by oh, say Osama Bin Laden - a Saudi citizen? Did the world hold Saudi Arabia accountable for 9/11 even though Bin Laden is a Saudi? Even though most of the terrorists were Saudis? No. If NYC - America's undisputed greatest city, were destroyed, along with other major cities around the world, most of which would be our allies to boot, do you really think the world would believe that America was responsbile? Oh, sure some would. But consider my question about Mecca and Medina. NYC aint holy, but in the fabric of importance, the world knows how much it means to the United States. And consider my Bin Laden analogy. DocM is an American, has fought for America. But even Americans are frightened by his power.
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But I still don't buy it. Even if they thought that Doc M's actions were not condoned by the US government, they would still BLAME the US for his actions (which would be understandable, since he had been the ultimate US weapon for decades). There's no escaping the fact that Doc M is a well known, terrestrial threat who has been used for decades by the US government as a weapon. In order to come together, the threat MUST be an unknown one that has NOTHING to do with the planet or its people. Sorry, the Doc M frame-job just doesn't work for me.
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I still have not seen a single still that makes Ozy look like anything other than a snot-nosed trick-or-treater. The guy should look fit and confident. Visually, he is the weak link in this film.
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