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HEROES At
The Crossroads!!

I am – Hercules!!
With Jeph Loeb off the “Heroes” writing staff and the possibility that Bryan Fuller might be returning, I’m back to watching. My DVR has caught me up. It turns out that Hiro is willing to travel back in time again, as long as doing so accomplishes as little as possible. It bears noting that “Heroes” only gets Fuller, the best writer of the series’ first, best season, if ABC fails to order episode 2.14 of Fuller’s own show, “Pushing Daisies.” And Fuller remains hopeful ABC will continue the adventures of Ned, Chuck, Emerson, Olive, et al. “Daisies” ratings have rebounded a bit of late. And so many shows are floundering over at ABC the network may be contemplating leaving “Daisies” on Wednesdays as a lead-in to “Lost” when the latter returns in January. Fuller tells AICN:
“I love Heroes. I had a wonderful time there during the first season. I love the writers. I love the cast. I love the crew. But I want Daisies to stay on the air. There are so many great stories in the back 9 that deepen the world and enrichen the characters. Is enrichen a word?”
Whether Fuller hops back aboard “Heroes” or not, one remains hopeful that one of Tim Kring’s many assistants are even now on the phone to the WGAw checking into which agents represent Warren Ellis, Mark Millar and Grant Morrison for TV work. Because those are the three guys not named Alan Moore who have been writing the best new superhero stories of the last decade. And another comic-book guy without a lot of prior TV experience, Brian K. Vaughn, helped bring “Lost” back from the brink.
Tonight: “Villains.” To prepare for the confrontation ahead, Hiro follows respected businessman, husband and father Arthur Petrelli (guest star Robert Forster) in the days before he "died" -- to discover what drove him to create rival company Pinehearst and strike at Angela. Later, a moment unfolds where Sylar, horrified and guilt-ridden, might have stopped his murderous pursuit of abilities -- that is, if H.R.G. and Elle (guest star Kristen Bell) had swayed from their monstrous assignment. Finally, under the wing of Company man Thompson (guest star Eric Roberts), agent-in-training Meredith (guest star Jessalyn Gelsig) watches her new life go up in smoke, following the arrival of her hot-headed brother. Greg Grunberg, James Kyson Lee, Ali Larter, Hayden Panettiere, Adrian Pasdar, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Dania Ramirez and Milo Ventimiglia also star. Jimmy Jean-Louis, Malcolm McDowell, Ntare Guma Mbaho Mwine, Ron Perkins, Blake Shields, and Jeff Staron guest star.
Next Week: “It’s Coming.” After a preemptive strike against Hiro and Ando in Africa, Arthur Petrelli (guest star Robert Forster) orders Knox (guest star Jamie Hector) and Flint to hunt down his son Peter and granddaughter Claire. Nathan is stunned to learn his father is alive -- and leading a villainous charge to worldwide destruction. Meanwhile, back at Pinehearst, Sylar has a charged confrontation with Elle (guest star Kristen Bell). Suresh begins testing his new, combined superpower formula. Later, with the others dead, injured or on the run, Matt attempts to wake Angela. Jack Coleman and Ali Larter star. Robert Forster, Brea Grant and Ntare Guma Mbaho Mwine also guest star.
Nov. 24 “Eclipse Part 1.” After reuniting Sylar and Elle, Arthur orders them to find Claire and bring her to him. Matt, Hiro and Ando team up together and follow Daphne to her hometown of Athens, Georgia to discover what she's been hiding. Meanwhile, Nathan and Peter Petrelli travel together to Haiti in search of the the only man that can stop their father from destroying the world, the Haitian. Jack Coleman and Ali Larter also star. Robert Forster also guest stars.
Dec. 1 “Eclipse Part 2.” The eclipse continues to impact the Heroes' abilities as Elle and Sylar face off against a vengeful H.R.G. while Claire struggles to survive. In Haiti, Peter and Nathan join forces with the Haitian to battle the Haitian's brother, Baron Samedi (guest star Demetrius Grosse), and Nathan comes to a shocking decision. In the meantime, Ando, Sam (guest star Seth Green) and Frack (guest star Breckin Meyer) work hard to get Hiro's memory back with the help of the "9th Wonders" comic books at a local comic bookstore. Greg Grunberg, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Ali Larter and Cristine Rose also star. Brea Grant and Robert Forster also guest star.
9 p.m. Monday. NBC.


by Warren Ellis: $13.49!!

by Mark Millar: $13.59!!

by Grant Morrison: $13.59!!

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Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:58 a.m. CST

    It's too late

    by Mr Sidney James

    I've given up on Heroes. I don't know what went wrong but something did and it's lsot my interest. I suspect the same goes for the millions of poeple who have stopped watching it and frankly I don't think they'll be back. Sorry Heroes but your time is up

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3 a.m. CST

    Vengeful HRG

    by Xiphos_2

    That sounds somewhat promising.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:09 a.m. CST

    Heroes can be saved

    by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl

    Not that it'll be easy. They should start by trimming the fat and getting rid of characters that bring nothing to the series. Plus, when you kill someone off please don't bring them back in an episode or two. Did Eric Roberts really survive a gunshot wound to the head? I'm assuming that there's some trickery involved but if not... ugh. <p> I just want to see if they can make this a fun show again. It doesn't have to be Lost with a new twist or wrinkle by the end of every episode. Just a solid superhero show. <p> The only reason I still watch it now is because I do like HRG as a character and Robert Forster does look like he's having a lot of fun playing the bad guy.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:12 a.m. CST

    First series of Heroes was cool

    by kwisatzhaderach

    It has fallen by the wayside though. Squirrel Girl is right about bringing back characters that have just been killed, it completely kills the drama. Never mind, 24 and Lost will soon be here.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:19 a.m. CST

    I think I'm out

    by Jinxo

    I really think I'm just done with Heroes. My taping schedule for Mondays is already too busy so that I actually have to make an effort to see it and... it's not been worth the effort lately. The saddest thing is, normally, once I commit to a show I'll stick with it to the bitter end. I mean, I stuck with Alias through those final terrible seasons. But Heroes becomes one of a small list of shows that got me to bail before the end.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:23 a.m. CST

    NO!!!!! Leave it to die Herc. You gave it up.

    by Sakurai

    Now you come crawling back just because there is some slim possibility that it might return to being above mediocrity? You already caught up all the past episodes on your DVR? This is wishful thinking. Now any slight improvement will be seen as brilliance and a return to glory. That's it!! Heroes is the Obama presidency.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:26 a.m. CST

    I'd sacrifice Heroes for Dasies

    by pokadoo

    I've lost interest in Heroes, it lacks focus. It's turned into a soap with super-powers.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:27 a.m. CST

    over it

    by Magregus

    It's lost the plot, can't be saved, RIP HEROES!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Pushing Daisies > Heroes

    by Bob Loblaw Law Blog

    That's the hands down of it. the last two episodes of Heroes are sitting on my DVR, completely unwatched. I just don't give a damn anymore.<p>Meanwhile, two weeks without a new "Pushing Daisies" feels like an eternity.<p>It's unlikely I'd give Heroes much of my time now that I don't even bother to catch up... but, honestly, why would I (and all the other folks who given it up) care once "24" and "LOST" return in just about 2 months.<p>Answer: They won't. Heroes is done.<p>I blame it all on Mohinder. I just really hate his character.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:32 a.m. CST

    Again

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    If you don't like the show, don't discuss it. Just sod off to the old Lost talkback. No-one will mind, in fact we'll be happy that the TB is made up of people who've actually watched the last two episodes instead of people like Law Blog who don't give a damn but can't stop putting forth their Heroes-illiterate opinion onto the Internet.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:34 a.m. CST

    Herc

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I can honestly say I didn't miss your 'reviews', especially when you want Heroes to hire Mark Millar... whose both too expensive and too un-tested on TV to be of any use. Kudos for finally admitting Lost was on the brink, though - even if it contradicts your 'OMGLOSTANDMEAREGONNAHAVEBABIES' fanboy love during S2/S3.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:56 a.m. CST

    Robot Chicken in Heroes

    by watch_the_world_burn

    sounds good

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:12 a.m. CST

    Awesome

    by aleeminator

    If Fuller has hope for Pushing Daisies then I'm happy

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:13 a.m. CST

    A Reboot is the only thing that can save Heroes

    by Optimus Primal

    They have so cluster fucked these character and there story lines that only a Reboot can wipe this shit out of the ass crack of TV. Tim Kring's original Idea of Killing off most of the cast after the 1st season should now be enacted. Im sick of Nathan, Clair, Sylar, Hiro et al. Get some new blood in there and start from scratch.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:19 a.m. CST

    I want to love Heroes again!

    by DeeboShanks

    I whole-heartedly agree, we definitely need Mr. Ellis, Mr. Morrison, and Mr. Millar to come in and make this thing work again! I also wouldn't mind seeing Steven DeKnight, Jane Espenson, David Fury, and David Greenwalt drop in for a couple of episodes here and there. LET JOSS WRITE AN ARC! And add ARCS! I'm done now.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:20 a.m. CST

    Lost was never at "The Brink"

    by nalapou

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:21 a.m. CST

    I lied...

    by DeeboShanks

    I wasn't done. If it was up to me, I'd let the world burn before saving Claire. UGH she makes me want to hurl big cheesy shrimp balls!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:23 a.m. CST

    Oh, and also...

    by DeeboShanks

    What is Russell T. Davies doing now? Let him come work some Dr. Who magic on Heroes! Heck yeah! Let's see some UK power! And bring David Tennet on the show! He won't be playing Who anymore anyway!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:25 a.m. CST

    nalapou

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    For me, it was of being one of the worst shows on TV during S2. It managed to rebound in S3 and S4, but this 'S2 was underrated' rhetoric bugs me. I'm not a Lost-hater, but a fair chunk of S2 was terrible.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:25 a.m. CST

    DeeboShanks

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Heh - so basically, you want Buffy and Angel back on TV?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:31 a.m. CST

    isn't Loeb gonna write for Buffy season 8?

    by newc0253

    does Herc really believe Loeb's to blame for Heroes suckiness and, if so, what does he think of his immiment Buffy gig?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:32 a.m. CST

    newc0253

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Yeah, that's pretty odd. If you dislike Heroes, it's probably more of a team effort than one man twirling a moustache and pulling a Loki.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:37 a.m. CST

    no, disliking Heroes isn't a team effort...

    by newc0253

    i do it all by myself.<p> i agree with Herc that Heroes is a mess, i'm just not sure that Loeb is to blame, since he apparently did good work with JJ Abrams and presumably Whedon thinks enough of him to write for Buffy. I don't know the ins and outs of the writing staff at Heroes, or who is responsible, but Kring seems like the main villain here.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:42 a.m. CST

    newc0253

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I meant that you dislike the entire package, rather than blaming one writer. Sorry if that didn't come out right.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:54 a.m. CST

    Last 2 episodes were damn good actually

    by theycallmemrglass

    Left me wanting to know what happens next. A feeling I never had since season 1. What I dont get is what the fuck difference does it make, who's writing? They use several writers. bryan fuller only wrote 2 of the first season. So what fucking difference will that make if he comes back? In fact, I think all the writers are ok but it is the main story arc that needs careful attention, who is in charge of that? Kring?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:56 a.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by Bob Loblaw Law Blog

    I understand the frustration with people who just say, "[Name of show] sucks! Cancel it!"<p>But, I really enjoyed the first season of Heroes... and I hung on last season thinking, "OK, not awesome... but still fun to watch."<p>But, this season has just gone down and down for me. I don't hate the show... I just have lost my enthusiasm for it. That makes me sad, especially every time I look at my DVD collection and see the first season of Heroes box set.<p>I do hope that Heroes gets back to form... that'd be great; I might even start watching episodes in a timely manner again. I'll eventually watch those episodes on my DVR... probably this week. During season one, I arranged my schedule to watch Heroes. Now... my schedule and other shows trump my desire to immediately watch Heroes. I think I speak for many, many fans. I don't hate Heroes... I'm just no longer an engaged viewer. Lost may not always be 100% brilliant, but it's always kept me wanting more.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:57 a.m. CST

    Elle and Sylar, a team? Have mercy....

    by Pennsy

    The havoc they're gonna reek. :)

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:08 a.m. CST

    Wreak, that is...

    by Pennsy

    Seems to confirm Elle remains bad. She'a already got enough incentive to incinerate Mama P; and if Arthur fills in the literal blanks, with her memory being wiped time and again by the Haitian Sensation. Thing is, 12/1 could be Kristen's final appearance on the show, because 2 characters will die in the conclusion of The Eclipse, I heard.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:09 a.m. CST

    Baron Samedi.

    by Kevin Holsinger

    Voodoo reference. Nice. Kind of makes me wish they hadn't killed the Haitian's father in the online comics. He was a really interesting character.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:12 a.m. CST

    Re. "Lost was never at "The Brink""

    by Leopold Scotch

    Nalapou, I was about to write those exact words but I guessed someone would have gotten there first. Lost has never had more than three (maybe even two) lukewarm/average episdoes in a row (yep, that's including the first six episodes of season three).

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:24 a.m. CST

    Leopold Scotch

    by Bob Loblaw Law Blog

    Agreed. Even the slowest episodes of "LOST" are interesting... especially when viewed later in immediate succession on DVD.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:27 a.m. CST

    Nope, just let it die

    by br1947

    It's too far gone. There is really no comparison to Lost, Lost was never this f'd up. They screwed the pooch in season 2 and now they are cooking it breakfast and planning picking out china patterns. "Good" Sylar was the last straw.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:27 a.m. CST

    Pennsy

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    It's not a Heroes TB unless Pennsy shows up implying he'll leave Heroes if KB does ;)

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:30 a.m. CST

    Blog

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I understand and respect your viewpoint... but, legit, no episode of Heroes is as bad as Lost 404 and Lost 112.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:31 a.m. CST

    br1947

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Yeah, stop posting. PLEASE. Your brand of 'fuck this show' isn't needed here, it just makes you look like a petty fool. Go do something constructive.

  • Have Fuller return to Heroes or have one or more of those comic book writers you mentioned take a shot at it?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore, I think you don't understand

    by br1947

    I LOVED Heroes, this is like watching a family member slowly die of a horrible disease. It's not hate, it's "please put it out of its misery".

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:41 a.m. CST

    br1947

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    No, it is hate. You have no belief that Heroes can pull out of this, so I do not understand why you are watching it or discussing it. It's clearly causing you a lot of rage, so why not just cleanly cut away from it until you can either come back to it neutral, or just focus more attention on Lost. I understand there's a half dozen timelines for that show online to simplify.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 7:25 a.m. CST

    Peter's Irish chick lost in alt future?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    What the fuck happened to her? No mention this season at all. <p> Just how the fuck did Nathan heal unless it is part of his power.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Next obnoxiuos plotline has a Groundhog day theme.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Cut the tired stories and character names. Baron Samedi, jesus isn't Brother Voodoo gonna sue? <p> The interesting thing about say Grant Morrisons Doom Patrol was just how surreal it all is. <p> Or No Heroics just how obnoxious and callow super heros can be. <p> Pushing daisies, just like Wonderfalls and Dead like me, moved well beyond the tired old retreads into unique original territory.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 7:30 a.m. CST

    Give Nathan at least one single Profit reference.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    How fucking cool would that be. <p> Or maybe even that bad vampire movie he was in.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 7:32 a.m. CST

    Morrison is just too "out there" for American TV...

    by Kid Z

    ...think about it... with him on board, it's very possible all the characters could realize they are just that... characters on a TV show which would lead to Hiro meeting Tim Kring. Wile E. Coyote would guest star in an episode, Micah would morph into a cloud of techno-organic nanobots, Sylar would turn out to be either Jack the Ripper or God or both, the heroes would confront an invasion of transsexual, cathedral-headed anti-gods... and, uhm... etc. I mean I love Morrison's work, I just don't see it appearing on mainstream, network TV unless he dials it back... a LOT!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 7:57 a.m. CST

    EvilWizardGlick

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    You care about Caitlin? Since when. Most of you chaps loathed S2 and wanted it retconned... now you want them to go back to it? Whuh?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:13 a.m. CST

    even at its very worst Lost is

    by slappy jones

    still a thousand times better then the very best of heroes. Its ridiculous how they get compared here. Heroes is a badly acted, horribly written soon to be cancelled derivative piece of junk.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Claire's mom...

    by turketron

    Was funny when last week a friend called me to rant about how lame it is whenever Claire's biological mom shows up and shows off her power. "Can you do this?" followed by her showing a little flame in her palm. That's all she ever seems to do. Meanwhile, the blue flame guy always manages to look cool with his powers.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:21 a.m. CST

    slappy jones

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    That's just ridiculous. So you're saying 'Company Man' is worse than 'Eggtown' - there's being a fanboy and defending your show, and then there's talking absolute twaddle.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Kid Z

    by gotilk

    I have to say that any combination of those ideas would have saved season 2.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:38 a.m. CST

    KNOX???!! GODDAMIT!

    by Purgatori

    That's Claire's fucking boyfriend isn't it? God I hate that kid. Hopefully Seth Green will beat the living shit out of him in a scene and I can root him on. Also, who else is 100 percent positive Elle is baby Noah's momma? I smell ozone charged rape.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Purgatori

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Do you even watch the show? Knox has Enhanced Strength and punches through people's chests, he has no time for love.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Also....

    by Purgatori

    I'd just watch a shirtless Sylar running around glowering and killing people. Along with a shirtless Peter running around lighting his hands on fire. We need more of that.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Purgatori

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    ...

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:47 a.m. CST

    OH...

    by Purgatori

    Okay, I was wrong. It's the FEAR dude. Who might be Claire's boyfriend if she suddenly decided she liked her men like she likes her coffee. But I digress... I still hate that "Boy who could fly" I'd rather have had Jay Underwood.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:48 a.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by Purgatori

    You know I love you right?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:50 a.m. CST

    good thing "boy who could fly" hasn't been seen since S2

    by turketron

    Superdouche went the way of the Irish Girl and Monica from New Orleans.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:55 a.m. CST

    turketron

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    His story had a start, a middle, and an end. Which is good.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:58 a.m. CST

    The Haitian has a brother?

    by Celicynd

    I guess we're just discounting the online graphic novels that are supposed to "fill the gaps and go beyond the show" or whatever they say. Since they clearly make it seem like he was an only child and it was just him and his father... of course, this show being inconsistant with its own lore, doesnt surprise me.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Celicynd

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I'd say wait and see, but it's clear you're not interested in having faith it all ties back together.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    *Back to watching* (the cheque is in the mail)

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    jk'ing<p> if you can glean some entertainment from this. Go for it.<p> No chance of me rejoining, don't have a dvr / tivo so I couldn't catch up and it was such a pos when I quit watching, and I ain't gonna watch some postcard sized vid online.<p> They want me back. Fire the guy who led the way down the caacaa path, Kring.<br> Not the writers that he fed his ideas and arcs to.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    spidercoz, as long as they're on for just those 2 eps

    by Pennsy

    I'll be happy.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Kill it.Make it DEAD

    by Mr Sidney James

    Free up the schedule for something else. I used to love it now I just want it to be gone. It's like a having a dog - great fun at first, then a bit boring and old and eventually you just need a hole in the ground or a sack and a couple of rocks to get rid of the stinking corpse.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Mr Sidney James

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    You are utterly reprehensible if you're joking, an idiot if you're not. Way to make an appalling analogy.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:28 a.m. CST

    I still find the show enjoyable.

    by Purgatori

    they seem to be ramping it up from the poo that the first part of this season was. My biggest problem is the complete 180 that Sylar did. But I enjoy Quinto's acting and his torn anti-hero he's created. I do agree though that they seem to be trying to turn this into Kingdom Come. Which is fine, because that's one of my favorite comics of all time. If you are going to steal, steal from the best. And they've been doing that all season too. I see hope for the show. They just need to focus. They need to stop killing characters that are interesting (example Illusion Girl and Linderman) if they plan on bringing them back and finish storylines instead of just dropping them (example what happened to Nathan's wife and kids...I'll say again...what if his sons have powers?) I love Heroes AND Pushing Daisies. Why can't I have both?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Warren Ellis

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Overrated.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Is Thing looking at Invisible Woman's rack?

    by gruntybear

    Is Superman looking where his nut-sack used to be? Is Kong using a service window as a gloryhole?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Warren Ellis

    by Laserhead

    Very, very overrated.<p>Yet still not as overrated as Mark Millar.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Why you can't fix it

    by greg39

    I've stuck with Heroes through everything, and I think it's an unfixable mess. Even if you bring in better writers all of the ridiculousness of the past 2 seasons is now part of the canon. My biggest problem with Heroes if how characters are handled. Don't insist on cramming every character into an episodes. This is where the bad story lines are coming from. I don't care if we go 7 or 8 straight episodes without seeing Peter or one of the others. Include them in the story when it feels write, not because they're under contract.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:53 a.m. CST

    greg39

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    They don't cram every character into every episode. I agree they could narrow the focus some, but I also understand actors have contracts that state they're in a certain amount of episodes.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Mr Sidney James

    by frozen01

    Oh, God, was that insensitive. You know, some people actually love their pets instead of seeing them as a toy to dispose of when "broken".

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Heroes vs Pushing Daisies

    by frozen01

    I have tried, time and time again, to get into Heroes. I've even come on to these TBs and gotten advise on how to jump into the show because the first few episodes just bored the hell outta me. I still just can't get into it. <br>On the other hand, Pushing Daisies, which I just picked up recently, is facinating and fun. I don't think it's necessary to cancel Heroes (after all, what are the chances that it'll be replaced by anything good?) but I really hope they keep Daisies.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Pushing daisies sucks about as much as heroes does now.

    by Volllllume3

    They're both shitty shows.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:20 a.m. CST

    mr. zedemore is easily entertained

    by Brians Life

    if you think this show is still deserving of faith, than I assume you watch Knight Rider and can't wait till that starts getting good too. This show started sucking the second to last episode of the first season and hasn't impressed since. I actually feel kinda sorry for you. It seems like you just want a show to like....sorry you jumped on a train made of shitty acting, horrible characterizations, paint yourself in a corner storylines and a big wheel of CHEESE. Take a class.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:20 a.m. CST

    daphne from athens, Ga? awesome

    by zom-bot.com

    my favorite stomping ground. i thought she looked a little punky...i will watch that episode.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Check that....

    by Brians Life

    this show has CONSISTENTLY sucked with the exception of a few episodes. Yes, "Company Man" was fanboy deliciousness and it's amazing that few notice it's the only title that gets tossed around in all camps as a good Heroes episode. This show sucks. NBC has dumped a TON of money into it. Do you know they think Ali Larter is a draw!?!? That's why they keep bringin her back...they think she's got the "star power" on the show. I'm not even kidding. So yeah, Tim Kring you can fire all the writers you want...your concept and execution especially are SEVERELY flawed. Go back to film school.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by Celicynd

    I tried to have faith in the show, but unfortunately, I think I hit the wall around 2 episodes ago where I just finally gave up and am now just watching it to watch the train wreck.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    i miss google girl

    by zom-bot.com

    she could save the show. :(

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Season 3 has been just as good as Season 1, and in many cases, b

    by zerogundamx

    The first two episodes left a little to be desired, but that's to be expected of Season 2's already filmed leftovers. Each episode since has been better than the last. They're definitely serious about fixing the show, because it shows.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Morrison is way too good for this tripe

    by cmsof

    My bootleg dvds of the X-Men animated series from the early 90s is more exciting than Heroes.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Heroes is done.

    by jimmy_009

    Is was done after the first season. They blew it.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Let it die.

    by Cameron1

    It's a mish mash of saccharine cod philosphical mumbo jumbo and soap opera plotting. The real crime however is that though the villains are generally villainous the suppsoedly "heroic" characters are either bumbling, whiny, stupid, or at worst spouting really bad "existentialist" dialogue about what it means to be special.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:12 a.m. CST

    The facts are these....

    by Fart_Master_Flex

    Pushing Daisies is the best thing on TV at the moment (now that Mad Men Season 2 has ended). If you don't agree with me, then you can so kindly go fuck yourself.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:15 a.m. CST

    zerogundamx, they've ramped it up a fair amount...

    by Pennsy

    But not as good as season 1, I believe. I still have faith. As long as the story moves forward, and the retconning of Sylar ceases once the eclipse begins (Remember what Usutu said "The dark sun rises. Soon it will be too late."? What if he actually meant "The dark SON rises"? As in the eclipse will revert Sylar back to his murderous way.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Please don't hire Milliar

    by Raymar

    or else Heroes becomes one big anti-American screed.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Morrison is awesome

    by nicegoogly

    But I tend to agree with another post. He is way too good for this crap. Although, imagine a Morrison-fuled Heroes, that would be great. Also, more fuckin' amnesia? Did they forget how lame that was the first two or three times they have done it in this show?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Yeah amnesia is lame, but it happens...

    by turketron

    When you have a mind-wiping character. Not that I'm excusing it as an annoying plot device, but still. Wonder if they'll ever explain whether Arthur knows of all the powers he has and whether he has reasons for not using stuff like time manipulation/travel...

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:48 a.m. CST

    One way to save Heroes

    by Itchy

    Brea Grant / Kristen Bell / Jesslayn Gilsig three-way. Every episode.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST

    DIE DAPHNE, DIE!

    by Pennsy

    Not Maya-esque annoying yet, but getting there.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Ellis overrated? What about BLACK SUMMER or DR. SLEEPLESS?

    by SpyGuy

    Warren Ellis would be amazing on HEROES, which is why the show will never land him.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:22 p.m. CST

    @ Fart_Master_Flex

    by Willyer Hero

    "Pushing Daisies is the best thing on TV at the moment.." If by "Pushing Daisies" you meant, "The Shield", then I totally agree with you.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    I don't think Morrison would be so "out there"

    by ChildOfMen

    I know Morrison does a lot of really weird and out there stuff, but I suspect that, if he was interested, he could do plenty with the template Heroes would provide him. As much as "Animal Man" had a lot of weirdness and metafictional aspects to it, it also was pretty heavy on that idea of taking a look at a more real-world approach to how a regular person might act as a superhero. I certainly think Morrison has it in him, if he were interested.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Hiro loses his memory?

    by AnakinsDiapers

    Really? Memory loss?....again? Really?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Heroes to Zeroes

    by I AM ROCKO

    I've never ever witnessed such a shocking decline in quality like I have on Heroes, I mean from the very first episode of Season 2 they dropped the ball, and also the show looked so much cheaper with really tacky effects. I understand Tim Kring's plan was to have a different set of characters season to season, with guest appearances from season 1 regulars...however due to the popularity of the cast he decided to shoe horn them in together, look how fucking popular they are now Tim...

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Morrison no stranger than Edlunds ( Blue)TICK

    by EvilWizardGlick

    And Edlund now does Supernatural. <p> Please Ben volunteer for a heroes arc, please....

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:50 p.m. CST

    AnakinsDiapers, caught it from Pete.

    by EvilWizardGlick

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Why didn't Peter steal Angela's owers?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Fuck he was in the room with her a number of times. <p> And just how the fuck did he get Micah's dad's power? He was never close enough.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Ok, so where is Caitlin?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Just wondering if that whole universe totally disappeared wiping Petes brain and leaving a stroke like facial distortion.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:56 p.m. CST

    Makes you wonder where the $4m/episode budget goes...

    by Pennsy

    Because their VFX house isn't getting the most bang for their buck.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:57 p.m. CST

    D.Vader, Except the bitching about NO action scenes

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Has everyone forgotten the pissing and moaning about the lack of action scenes in season one? <p> The whole Peter Sylar fight was only a suggestion.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Eric Roberts is back!!!!!

    by Kauzi Sezso

    Awesome!!!!!!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1 p.m. CST

    Pennsy, Farscape it with Muppets.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Remember when both Farscape and Invisible Man were dropped for being too expensive to produce? <p> But Heroes gets 4m per episode. <p> Jesus that is sad.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1 p.m. CST

    Kauzi Sezso Will he be Shroom powered?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Maybe set in the desert.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST

    I used to love this show. Now I just want it over....

    by namasteandgoodluck

    ...I know I would feel embarrassed to have anything to do with this catastrophe.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Where the 4mil budget goes? That's easy

    by Xiphos_2

    Coke and tall Eastern European hookers. Well that and the roughly 1003 cast members salary. Its not in the special efects that's for damn sure.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Xiphos! I'm ready for another Brad Lidge-esque relief

    by Pennsy

    go-to performance by Ms. Bell (who right now's in the south pacific with Favreau and company filming Couples' Retreat). She's been so underused it's not even funny, but script quality matters not with Kristen.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Cancel and Clear the Way for the JMS Series

    by nexxus7

    I stopped watching after Season 1 and greedy a$$ NBC pulled it off itunes. The buzz was pretty low so didn't bother to try to catch up. Now it's back on itunes and I bought a season pass but haven't watched an episode. But enthusiasm seems lukewarm and the fans are jumping ship. Somehow the characters seem tired and played out to me. I like the idea of them adapting the J. Michael Strazynski (sp?) comic. Rising Stars? as a mini-series. I really don't watch much TV but shows like this and lost seem to be one-trick ponies that hang aroudn way too long.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Lidge rehabed his image didn't he?

    by Xiphos_2

    Since that homer Pujos hit off him when he was with the Astros. He became a gas can and burnt down the bull pen.<p>now he went what, 49 for 49 right? None to shabby. I don't think Kring has it in him to Lidge it.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:43 p.m. CST

    company man

    by slappy jones

    is the fall back defense all the heroes fans go back to every time.....so they had a good episode. that doesn;t make up for the other 30 odd episodes of pure unadulterated garbage they have served up. And the ratings reflect that. I am glad to see a bad show for once achieve the failure it deserves and hopefully cancellation is not to far off.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Mark Waid told me this....

    by Brians Life

    and it's pretty much a "duh". It was at a panel on comic book writing, he said the worst crime in writing that can be committed is betraying established characters to serve a story. It's characters. Characters. Characters.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    zeddemore...

    by DeeboShanks

    Who, me? Want Buffy and Angel back on the air? That's ridiculous! I MOST CERTAINLY... do. I pee a little just thinking about it. <:/ Oh, and someone mentioned Ben Edlund... TOTALLY! His Angel Season Five work was astonishing! Bring him aboard! Talk about smile time!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST

    THEY GOING TO RUIN CAPTAIN AMERICA

    by Timahh

    dont know if anyone else saw, but they signed a director whose name is escaping me now, but its the guy who did Jurassi Park 3, October Sky and Hidalgo.....yeah.....oh and stan lee wants will smith to play the cap.......this is terrible news.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Removal of writers doesn't change what's already done

    by PornKing

    Don't see why Herc would watch the show the instant a couple of writers are fired...it doesn't change all the eps already created by them. Nothing will change until next season, if it's renewed...

  • for Best Sci-Fi/Fantasy series, announced this morning. The awards will be handed out 1/7 on CBS.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:16 p.m. CST

    I'm only watching to help...

    by Philvis

    I think I am only watching the show now so the actors don't starve if the show is cancelled for going crappy the past two seasons. I championed the hell out of this show the first season. Last season disappointed me greatly and this season just seems dull. They are trying to make it too deep or something and it just isn't working. Maybe my habitual viewing of the program is preventing it from being cancelled.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Supernatural

    by Xiphos_2

    Should be the winner of the People's Choice. Its clearly the best show. So Heroes will probably crush the competion.

  • If they get their groove back, then they have a chance to swipe it away,..from SCC. I've a sinking feeling Terminator is going to play spoiler, like Stargate Atlantis did year before last and swiped that year's honor from BSG.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Supernatural >> Heroes + Terminator:tSCC

    by turketron

    Watching Supernatural week to week you don't end up calling the main characters retarded over and over again (*cough* Peter, Hiro, John Conner, etc).<p><p> It shits on both Heroes and Terminator from a great height. I've seen every episode of all three shows. It won't win the People's Choice award though.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Herc's GLARINGLY HUGE comic writer omission:

    by Arkillo

    Geoff Johns. THAT dude has been writing the absolute greatest superhero stories for the last decade. The dude can blow your mind with stories featuring characters you previously didn't care AT ALL about. Don't care about Flash? Read Johns's run. You will love Flash. Superman's stale? Pick up the recent Braniac arc. Green Lantern is lame? Sinestro Corps War is one of the greatest Sci-Fi epics in ANY medium. Do you think the Legion of Super-boring-silver-age-goofiness-heroes isn't worth your time? Neither did I until I read Geoff's Legion of Three Worlds. Every other writer Herc named had made at least one huge misstep in the last ten years with a major character. Johns... not so much. Get that dude on 'Heroes' and I guarantee within two episodes it wil be redeemed. Of course, we'd then have to give up Johns's further work in comics for the time being, and I don't know if I can make that sacrifice. P.S. Supernatural should win that People's Choice award. By far the best choice of those three.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Athens, GA, the Classic City!!!

    by UGABugKiller

    This is pretty damn cool, if you ask me.<br><br>But here's the thing. I've been living in Athens, attending UGA, since Fall of '06. I'm not a big-time social guy, but I know my way around and hear things... and the thing is, I don't recall hearing of Heroes coming to shoot in Athens this summer, or earlier this fall.<br><br>So Herc, or anyone who knows, are they really going to be in Athens?<br><br>Will Hiro and Ando go eat breakfast at The Grill, or maybe lunch at the Varsity?<br><br>Will they walk down Milledge Ave, checking out all the hot sorority chicks?<br><br>Will they see Daphne doing sake bombs at Buddha Bar and join her for a round at The Loft?<br><br>Will we see Hiro and Ando on th corner of Broad and College, next to one of the many, many Bulldog Statues in Athens, contemplating their next move?<br><br>Will they attend the Georgia-Georgia Tech football game at the most beautiful stadium in college football, Sanford Stadium (home to 92,746 of my closest friends)?<br><br>Or did they use a stand-in city that will look nothing like one of the most unique and wonderful college towns in this great country of ours?<br><br>Home to REM, the B-52's, Widespread Panic, and my fave, the Drive-by Truckers.<br><br>Oh, and BTW, for those of you who don't know Athens or the University of Georgia, I suggest you pop in that classic Tom Green comedy "Road Trip," because that ain't Ithacca, that's Athens, GA, otherwise known as the greatest frakking place on the face of the frakking earth!!!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Supernatural FTW.

    by Cameron1

    Shit on heroes from a great height, as I said last week.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:41 p.m. CST

    You're absolutely INSANE if you think Millar is that good

    by IndustryKiller!

    No one, and I mean no one, has yet been able to justify his complete and utter unraveling of Marvel in the Civil War series. The company STILL has not recovered from that horrible crossover leaving only Captain America in Brubakers hands as the only tolerable piece of the Marvel cache. Not to mention the douche bag gladhanding Millar does with both Wanted and Kick Ass. I would go as far to say as if you like Millar that much then superhero comics as a medium completely escape you.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Athens, GA

    by turketron

    I'm kind of ashamed, but I will admit that in 24 years of living in GA I never have checked out Athens. I definitely regret it. I even lived in Atlanta for 3 years going to Georgia Tech, but was so caught up in academics I never made it out there for a weekend of fun. Maybe someday I'll go, but I live in Florida now :(<p><p> I SERIOUSLY don't think they would have gone there to film though.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Supernatural shits on Heroes if

    by Inigogal

    Showing or telling the audience every week how much the brothers love each other is your thing.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Supernatural shits on Heroes if

    by Inigogal

    Showing or telling the audience every week how much the brothers love each other is your thing.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    I think Pushing Daisies is dead

    by TVguy4566

    People may be holding out hope, but production is set to shut down on Thursday with no renewal announced. Not exactly encouraging. <br><br> Might as well save the show that is on the air through the end of the season and next year. Pushing Daisies maybe a lost cause.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST

    re: brotherly love

    by turketron

    And yet Supernatural still manages to have a clever and fresh story every week, whether dealing with the main arc for the season or the monster of the week. And the bricks continue to be shat...

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Heroes was great until the last episode of Season One

    by symphy

    But man, that season finale, SUCKED. I couldn't believe that after all that build-up, that had such a lame anti-climactic finale. And they haven't been good since. No since of drama, no one really dies. It's like the anti-24. Which is funny, because at the same time, 24 was having a horrible season, redeemed by a really awesome season finale! :)

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by nalapou

    I respectfully disagree as I was completely fascinated by almost all of season 2. Especially all the Dharma stuff like the other stations, the blast door map (#1 most viewed page on Lostpedia, btw, so someone likes season 2) and 'The Other 48 Days' were fantastic. There wasn't much to hate at all, people were just impatient/too stupid to follow. And were obviously proved wrong about the "lack of direction" in the seasons that followed once the Lost writers were given their end date. I enjoyed S2 immensely from beginning to end. If Lost does have a week spot, its the start of season 3, still nowhere near the low-quality that I would refer to as "The Brink". I'm going to assume Herc meant "The Brig", another excellent Lost episode.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    Leopold Scotch

    by nalapou

    considering you opinion on this matter and your AICN handle, i'm guessing we'd get along very well. lol.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Lots of unjustified critical talk...

    by jimbojones123

    That's all I have to say about that.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:44 p.m. CST

    Who finds Heroes interesting anymore?

    by Amy Chasing

    It has entertainment value (a bit), but does anyone actually find it interesting? I'm not usually able to read & watch TV at the same time, but I can with Heroes. Reading is interesting, Heroes is background noise with colors. Even Stargate Atlantis is more compelling (and that's saying something).

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 5:46 p.m. CST

    I'm late to this party, but it's worth noting that---

    by I87D

    --- Loeb and Alexander were let go because they cost too much. Heroes is now on a strict budget, and that means they aren't going to be bringing any A-list talent (even from the comic world) to replace them... Bryan Fuller says he wants to come back, but NBC probably won't pay his fee. He might be able to consult on a single teleplay in the back 9, but even that is optimistic...

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:01 p.m. CST

    New York Times article on Heroes' upheaval...

    by Pennsy

    http://tinyurl.com/56la72. And I do miss VegasRon. :(

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Talkback for Jensen Ackles' performance of Eye Of The Tiger

    by Amy Chasing

    Truly an Awesome moment of television.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:36 p.m. CST

    Amy Chasing I find Heroes interesting

    by Xiphos_2

    Like a train wreck sort of interesting.<p>I absolutely agree about the Eye of the Tiger thing with Ackles. Truly inspired.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Doc Jensen

    by b-rock

    Interesting that Entertainment Weekly's resident fanboy wrote the story that caused the cannings at Heroes. Good. Maybe he can write something similar about Lost, which currently is nearing its zenith above the shark. (Hey, Rocky, watch me pull an island out of my hat!)

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST

    But even a train wreck has pacing.

    by Amy Chasing

    I just can't engage with any of the stories this season. Last season, boring though it was, was more coherent.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8 p.m. CST

    And awaaaaaay we go.

    by Pennsy

    Yes.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Good sign; Kristen in the last scene of the teaser. Again.

    by Pennsy

    :)

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:11 p.m. CST

    "Pie.

    by Pennsy

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Please don't eat the DAISIES!

    by JackIsLost

    I love, love, love PUSHING DAISIES. I don't even think love is strong enough of a word. I loave it. I luff it. It is one of the most unique shows ever put on TV. I'm sure Fuller will go back to HEROES if it's cancelled, because the man's gotta eat, but ABC please give this show until the end of a full season 2 to see if you can build the ratings up. It's on the up-swing! If by the end of a full second season, the ratings are still abysmal, then I will understand. But you know this is one of the most wonderful things your channel has ever produced... I promise I will buy Season 2 on DVD...even if it costs $90, whatever. I LOVE THIS SHOW!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:20 p.m. CST

    WOW another heroes flashback

    by SWEEP

    guess when you cant write anything new you just spin your wheels in flahback stories , no moving forward , just tired oh so tired

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:27 p.m. CST

    TV is not like comics

    by SWEEP

    Heroes need to die , stories need to move forward its just not the same medium. Spiderman cant keep rebooting and court Mary Jane. Thats why they fired the executive producers

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Kristen Bell ... Pie

    by D_T

    Ummm...<p> They ate a TON of pie.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:33 p.m. CST

    I'm finished...

    by darthschneider67

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:34 p.m. CST

    With your pie?

    by D_T

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:38 p.m. CST

    Arthur has the Haitian's ability!

    by Pennsy

    Whoa..

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Nice dovetail into Claire's rescue

    by Pennsy

    Pretty good episode. And Kristen Bell Pie is mine, dambit! :D

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:43 p.m. CST

    Pie huh?

    by br1947

    Maybe there is a Pushing Daisies cross over ahead... lol

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Lady MacBeth, she is...and the Haitian is the key.

    by Pennsy

    to stopping him. Arthur couldn't do a thing to her while he was around.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    This is a first season episode!

    by chrth

    They're closing the open loops from the first season (Angela's attitude early versus later, what was found in Sylar's apartment the first time it was visited, how Thompson found out about Claire)<p> They killed African Isaac!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    Didn't expect that until next week's episode...

    by Pennsy

    Wow.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:01 p.m. CST

    This was actually a much better episode than I thought it'd be

    by Magic Rat

    the end was great, with Papa Patrelli practically ripping Hiro's head off.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:02 p.m. CST

    most pointless episode ever

    by jccalhoun

    So what was the point of that episode? It was nice to see Sylar and Elle together but, really, what was the point? If it had been a breather episode between story arcs itg would have been ok but in the middle of an arc it did nothing but irritate me.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:04 p.m. CST

    Solid ep, but we need to stop the flashbacks/forwards

    by chrth

    Pretty much every loose end from season one is answered, and the flashforward shtick is overused at this point (although great earlier in the season).<p> Noah is Elle's son, maybe?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:09 p.m. CST

    FUCK YOU HATERS THAT WAS FLIPPIN AWESOME!

    by thecomedian

    Seriously, I didn't watch most of the second season of this show because it was horrible but this season has been awesome. You haters just want something to bitch about.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Yeah, at least for tonight, thecomedian, Heroes ruled.

    by Pennsy

    "God gave you a big sister instead of a brain." LMAO

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:25 p.m. CST

    Mama Petrelli: HBIC

    by Pennsy

    Head Bitch in Charge ($1 to VH1's I Love New York), shamelessly stolen from TV without Pity.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:26 p.m. CST

    I enjoyed it better than any other ep this season

    by turketron

    I liked the filling in of all the holes and questions regarding Arthur from season 1. Liked the "VILLAINS" title card. The way they showed Sylar's "iwannabespecial/hunger" manifesting was cool too. The emo douche that Sylar killed totally deserved it. Nice shocking ending too, been a while since they've done one of those well. Also, the season 1 style gore is back! The narrator on the preview for next week was retarded though... "the eclipse that gave them their powers" ??? <p><p>um... NO.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Xiphos, Kristen Bell is the Cole Hamels of Heroes.

    by Pennsy

    Never mind Brad Lidge. She was eight kinds of awesome tonight, as was the old guard (Cristine Rose, Caligula, and that dude from the Black Hole).

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Lookin Good

    by Punch_Drunk

    You guys all suck. Try not to choke on all that hater-aid. This show rocks hard! This episode was awesome!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Haven't seen this ep yet (and now looking forward to it), but...

    by Amy Chasing

    one good ep doesn't save a season.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:35 p.m. CST

    Amy, one episode doesn't, but it's a start, yeah?

    by Pennsy

    I can't wait for next week's episode, and that's something I haven't said on the record since the preview of last year's Cautionary Tales.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:40 p.m. CST

    hmmm... 8 episodes in...

    by Amy Chasing

    I'll let it slide if the rest of the season isn't like ep 7 (I was asleep with my eyes open for that one).

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Not bad

    by David Lazarus Long

    Reeked of retcon... sure, they're filling in the gaps in consistency between the S1 and S3, and they did a decent job of using past events to shed light on newer characters... but parts of it still felt like the Lost episode where they stuck what's-her-face into a bunch of old scenes. Cute, but pointless. And what's with the paste? It's just so damn magical that it happens to show you the specific events from the past OR future that you need to see in order to find the right path? Just a little too fucking convenient. Entertaining episode, at least. My standing on Heroes right now is this: It's decent, almost good... But it should be fucking GREAT. And it COULD be, which is the most frustrating part. Guh.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 9:59 p.m. CST

    this is all for naught as it will soon be cancelled

    by slappy jones

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10 p.m. CST

    Pennsy

    by Xiphos_2

    I won't see the episode until I down load it later on today. So until then I have to think of it as Mitch "Wild Thing" Williams. <p>Amy Chasing mkaes a good point. One episode does not a season make, although a few that are good do help. In Heroes case immensely.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:04 p.m. CST

    I'm a heroes defender

    by smackfu

    and about 45 minutes through that episode it occurred to me that it might have been written by children. Like Jeph Loeb went on a weekend bender and his 8 year old kid wrote the episode for him so he wouldn't get fired, but he got fired anyway. And then the Heroes producers were like....well...we don't have enough time to write another one, let's air it and hope no one notices.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:08 p.m. CST

    The paste.

    by Amy Chasing

    Is peyote paste, with a dash of flux capacitor. <P> Actually, I can buy that Hiro would see what he needs to see with the paste. If it's done well (and it sounds like it is) I can suspend my disbelief enough for that to pass. That and everyone seems to be genetically connected in this show anyway so Hiro is probably just accessing his genetic memory. But I'm making that up of course... aren't I?

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST

    filler episode

    by zooch

    So we went back in time, nothing happened, another future painter bites the dust.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:27 p.m. CST

    WTF,That was ... decent???

    by _Maltheus_

    <p>Not bad. I'm having trouble finding who wrote it, but it might have been Kring himself (or one of the fired ones who took his name off?). It was almost overloaded with stuff that probably should have been spread out in some of the earlier, crappier episodes in the season.</p> <p>Although, I'm not quite sure what Papa Petrelli's power is. It seemed like he had Maury's power, but he had only just killed him in the present. And presumably he didn't remove Maury's power a year ago. Perhaps he has Peter's ability and the power suck ability is merely an evolution of it?</p> <p>I noticed that we didn't have to deal much with Parkman, Claire, Schizo chick or (especially) Mohinder and that certainly didn't hurt things this episode. And it was more in line with what we were promised after S1, what with the dealing with different Heroes thing, without totally abandoning the originals. In any case, the ep was a big step up from the earlier dog food.</p>

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:30 p.m. CST

    T:TSCC

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    tonight's episode was very good

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:34 p.m. CST

    i agree, T:TSCC was also good tonight

    by turketron

    Cromartie was duel wieldin and strafing like master chief when he was shooting at their car. And LOL at "CROMARTIE'S STORY". It was just him fucking people up.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Maltheus, Rob Fresco wrote tonight's episode...

    by Pennsy

    Allan Arkush, who's a Kring loyalist from the days of Crossing Jordan, I think, directed.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:52 p.m. CST

    I'll never look at pie the same way again after tonight.

    by Pennsy

    ;)

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Good thing Colossus is weak to fire attacks

    by SonOfSkywalker

    She shoots fire at his metal arm and it hurts him? Lame!

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 10:58 p.m. CST

    And what a difference a year makes re; BigAppleCon

    by Pennsy

    One year ago this coming weekend, I met Kristen Bell for the first time. That convention was loaded, guestwise, with her and Hayden Panettiere for starters. The top guest this weekend? George Lazenby.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:08 p.m. CST

    TERMINATOR

    by Adelai Niska

    I agree, TTSCC was the best show on TV tonight. Felt more like a seaon finale than a regular episode, when you consider the odd structure, Riley learning things, and Cromartie's story. Plus Summer Glau.

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Also agreed on TSCC

    by _Maltheus_

    <p>Much to much constant surprise, that show gets better and better. I was only so-so on S1, but this season has really pulled it together, writing wise.</p> <p>Thanks Pennsy on the writer info. It doesn't seem like he's ever written anything for the show before, is that right? If so, it's a great first time ep.</p>

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:30 p.m. CST

    "ok, so it wasnt your mothers recipe"..

    by steelerman

    lmao at that

  • Nov. 10, 2008, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Heroes Brand Toilet Paper

    by pinkraygun_guy

    What a load. http://tinyurl.com/3laq5z

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 12:14 a.m. CST

    I thought Elle never left the Company...

    by PirateEmery

    Did the Haitian wipe her memory of her romance with Sylar so that when she met Peter she was awkward and stuff?<p> The Haitian... solving plot hole problems since 2006.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Loved it

    by Purgatori

    Nice nods to the previous seasons. I also liked the fact that everyone we thought was a complete shit really wasn't. Except for Daddy Petrelli. Bring on the Sylar's Peach Pie shippers. You KNOW its coming.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 12:58 a.m. CST

    zerogundamx...are you kidding?

    by bacci40

    season 3 is like a live action version of the late 90s x series...lots of characters, lots of action, continuity out the window, and absolutely no soul...im watching, but only cuz i get easily bored

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:15 a.m. CST

    EVEN BRAD LIDGE CAN'T SAVE THIS SHOW

    by Murraypalooza

    ...oh come on, that's gold!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:17 a.m. CST

    The problem is..

    by billypilgrimisunstuck

    ..this is the Golden Age of television. Seriously. I would argue that television shows are beginning to have a much larger influence on the discourse of pop culture than films. There are just so many good television shows that having one that pales in comparison just doesn't cut it anymore. HEROES is an old vehicle, stuck in the ways of how television use to work. It's just not keeping up with the times. It's a shame, cause it was a good premise, just poorly executed.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:38 a.m. CST

    No but seriously...

    by PirateEmery

    Do these writers care anything about continuity? Am I really expected to turn off my brain while I watch?<p> Noah creates the monster that is Sylar, and then we are expected to believe his anger when Sylar cuts up his daughter? Dude, your "daughter" is invulnerable and you had a hand in sending Gabriel down this path. I'm not supposed to come out of an episode HATING a good guy that I've liked for a while.<p> And how the HELL did Papa Petrelli get Pinehurst off the ground from the Coma-Bed? He's got no cash, he can't take any from his family without them knowing that he is still alive. Is he just telling people through his mind to keep doing his bidding regardless of how much money it is costing them?<p> How did Elle go from a level-headed human being with a brief yet loving relationship with Gabriel Gray to a socially awkward, introverted sociopath that played with Peter like he was a toy? She accidentally blew up her grandmother's house at 6, yet her father was training her to be an agent at 4. "A sociopath with paranoid delusions" is showed to be the voice of reason in a story involving Sylar? She is "twenty-four years old and never went out on a date," and yet here she was getting her romance on with Gabe.<p> I'm sorry, but this shows absolutely NO respect for any of their previous episodes.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:42 a.m. CST

    AND HOW THE FUCK...

    by PirateEmery

    ...DID AFRICAN ISAAC GET HIS HEAD CUT OFF? WOULDN'T HE HAVE SEEN IT COMING?<p> And PETER'S POWER DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Papa Petrelli can't absorb the abilities that Peter has absorbed through Peter! That makes no sense! Peter's ability is empathic mimicry, so that's exactly what Papa Petrelli should have stolen. And if this was indeed the CASE and Papa Petrelli has all the abilities that Peter has been exposed to, then wouldn't he be giving into 'the hunger'?<p> Am I the ONLY ONE that thinks that Season 2 was better than this? Which reminds me...<p> WHERE THE FUCK IS CAITLIN?!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 2:21 a.m. CST

    golden age of television?

    by bacci40

    more like marking the end of the roman empire...it is all gladiator battles with the shit faux reality shows...for every the wire, there are 10 who wants to marry a fucked up millionaire hooker, 20 dancing with the overthehill actors and athletes, 50 freak shows masquerading as talent shows...chuck barris was pillaried for this shit...the networks should treat him like a god...he created the entire concept of today's tv...but at least he was honest about it

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 2:44 a.m. CST

    This one was great fun.

    by gotilk

    Huge improvement. A lot of the nitpicking here this week is essentially stuff like "so the peyote conveniently gives him exactly the vision he needs?". <br><br> Yes. <br> <br> And Hobbits have furry feet, Superman is energized by our sun instead of weakened by it, Skynet only knows the details it needs to know in order to threaten but not kill John Connor.. yet always knows EXACTLY where that time bubble needs to be in order to be in close proximity on the correct day and time.. all while never, ever showing us the true mechanism by which they acquire this knowledge. <br><br> (that said... the TTSCC episode tonight was ALSO very good) <br> <br>People still nitpicking this show to a huge extent after this episode are just kicking it while it's perceived as down. It was well crafted, well written, had the heart and soul of season 1 and was just a whole hell of a lot of fun. Perfect? No way. But it was GOOD. Let's hope it stays in gear.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 2:57 a.m. CST

    This was was better

    by The McPoyle Clan

    mostly due to them focusing on the better characters and guest cast. No Parkman, Nikki, and just a glimpse of Mohinder. Nathan did seem to forgive his dad pretty quickly for trying to off him, and crippling his wife, though.<br><br>I'm not part of the Kristen Bell Stalker Club that seems to congregate here, but was thinking how she deserves a better vehicle of her own, rather than hanging out on this show.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 2:59 a.m. CST

    Gotta agree, bacci40

    by gotilk

    But much like game shows, eventually only old people and the mentally challenged will watch reality TV. You know the crowd. Imagine the people hanging out by the tour bus at say... a Journey concert. Anyone under 35 standing around waiting for an autograph appears to have something significantly off about them. Genetic issues, mild to extreme retardation or just flat out deformity. Nothing wrong with being those people, I'm sure they're all very nice, even more interesting than most. But they are clearly still an INDICATOR and cannot be ignored.<br><br> And just like game shows, they will never go away. But their place in the sun WILL turn out to me a TIME in the sun instead. (an American tragedy indeed.. sob sob boo hoo)

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 3:12 a.m. CST

    Oh most definitely.

    by billypilgrimisunstuck

    Yes. We are living at the dawn of he Golden Age! Mark my words. Despite the overabundance of reality/game/bullshit shows, the quality of every real show has been exponentially gaining momentum. Convergence is growing and with more channels, media outlets, and ubiquity will come the bad along with the good. What we will remember, however, is the good. I don't remember a time period where there has been so many good, high quality television programs for the public to get their hands on. For example: The Sopranos, Mad Men, Lost, The Wire, Dexter, Californication, Damages, Breaking Bad, Pushing Daisies, Weeds, Six Feet Under, Curb Your Enthusiasm, 30 Rock, The Office, Battlestar Galactaca, The Shield, 24, Arrested Development, Deadwood, Extras, It's Always Sunny, South Park, The Venture Bros.,Flight of the Conchords. LIFE RULES!!!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 3:46 a.m. CST

    Warren Ellis, Mark Millar and Grant Morrison

    by most excellent ninja

    Huh? I thought the best superhero stories of the past decade came from guys named Geoff Johns, Ed Brubaker and Brian Bendis.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 4:26 a.m. CST

    PirateEmery

    by hatemphd

    I had the same questions about father's Petrelli powers as it pertains to Peter. It really makes no sense at all... unless he thinking "Peter can do this" the whole time. Its still annoying.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 4:50 a.m. CST

    Perseverance

    by Aeronaut

    I have been sticking with the show through this weak spell, clinging to the occasional great moment to carry me through - but the apparent lack of continuity is starting to make my head hurt. I think Kring needs come out and publish an article (in EW say) explaining for each key character how some of these wildly disparate scenes are supposed to be the same person.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Aeronaut, I agree

    by Inigogal

    A lot of people would benefit from "Heroes for Dummies."

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 5:50 a.m. CST

    Kristen Bell's Pie

    by Itchy

    I want to eat it.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 6:06 a.m. CST

    by Alientoast

    "He's got no cash, he can't take any from his family without them knowing that he is still alive." Methinks a master criminal has money in other places besides a joint checking account.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Several things

    by chrth

    This wasn't the best episode of the season. Not even close. That honor goes to the one that Talkbacker ChrTh said 'kicked ass!', when Sylar lost his temper and went KABLOOIE. Of the episodes since (all solid), this may have been the weakest if you look at it in terms of Season 3 only -- it didn't progress much. If you look at it in terms of all seasons, though, it raises a bit in esteem.<p> The hardest part of the episode was buying HRG as a hardass again. Remember those days? Company Man, while brilliant, really took apart HRG's hardassedness -- even being a badass at the copy place in the premiere of season 2 couldn't restore him to his former glory. To go back to that was fun, but disconcerting.<p> They still need to kill off some characters. Anyone want to bet that Meredith bites it versus her brother in the Villains finale?<p> Hiro has really become a liability for the show. He was cute at the beginning of season 1, and cool as Future Hiro, but ever since Charlie died and he spent an episode in a limo, he's been pretty dang pointless. The writers really need to do one of two things: mature him, or kill him.<p> Peter takes powers. He keeps them after he takes them. Papa Petrelli took *all* of Peter's powers. That includes -- Flying. The company already knew where African Isaac was, so anyone nitpicking how Papa Petrelli got there really hasn't been paying attention.<p> That said, he seems to have Maury's powers and the Haitian's powers. Maybe he can restore powers as well? And maybe he doesn't lose them when he gives them back?<p> The one big unanswered question is: what did Papa Petrelli want to do in the future with the bomb (which he must have known about)? Obviously not make Nathan President. So what was it?

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:34 a.m. CST

    I'm a Heroes apologist but even I hated last night's episode...

    by Pdorwick

    ...seriously, what the hell was the point of any of it. Heroes should stay away from these type of flashbacks. It stopped working for Lost years ago and it doesn't work for Heroes now.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:38 a.m. CST

    Are you guys serious?

    by Epictetus

    Last night's episode was total schlock. How about the guy running back and forth in the train car and then them jumping out together in front of an obvious blue screen? <p> Then you have HRG saying "fascinating" after watching a good guy get murdered in cold blood by a bad guy he's trying to catch. Stupid.<p> I have enjoyed parts of this season but last night was the "wurst episode everrrr."

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:45 a.m. CST

    TSCC and HEROES were both solid

    by SpyGuy

    I know it's fun to revel in hating on sci-fi shows, especially the way HEROES has been recently, but it's okay to give the schadenfreude a pass for one week, people. Just enjoy the notion that last night was pretty damn entertaining and move on to bitching about Lil' Kirk driving a Corvette instead...

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:45 a.m. CST

    The fact that it didn't deal with S3 much...

    by _Maltheus_

    ...is the reason this episode was good. It was more like a S1 ep. As for the Sylar blowing up episode being the best, I'd say that ep represents everything that's wrong about Heroes. Sylar in an apron is not Sylar. Having his evil comes from his power undermines the excellent S1 ep that explains why he's so fucked up in the first place. Instead, they wanted to tie his evil to his power so that we'd accept him as a good guy (gulp) Petrelli. And the fact that his "son" died at all was ridiculous since Peter could have just stopped time to save him (or any number of other powers). Hell, between him and Sylar, nobody should have been able to stand against them for even a second. No, I'd say that was the worst episode of the entire show, putting aside the wow factor of seeing Sylar explode. Yes, last night's ep was easily the best of the season.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:50 a.m. CST

    Ok... so I get it... the graphic novels are pointles

    by Celicynd

    My first post mentioned that based on the plot synopsis of the haitian episode, they're contradicting his online graphic novels. Now they give Elle an assignment before the "Elle's first Asignment" comics... why bother with online comics that further the story if your show is going to actively contradict the show? Last night was terrible. My one issue with the first season, even though I loved it, was that everything was TOO interconnected. So what do they do in this "flashback" episode? They make everyone even more so. Not to mention ruining Syler's character by changing his origin. Ruining Noah's by having him actually sacrifice someone to Syler (a retarded idea in the first place). Ruining Angela... apparently she was just mind fucked constantly up until a year ago and isn't anywhere near as manipulative as we thought (since that shit doesn't just develop in a year). I stated I was watching this show now just because it was like watching a train wreck. i think I just may be done with watching for that reason too.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:53 a.m. CST

    why are there no paragraph breaks

    by Celicynd

    in my last post? Do I actually have to manually put <p> </p> tags in? or something?

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:53 a.m. CST

    guess so

    by Celicynd

    hehe

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:57 a.m. CST

    Invisible Man

    by arby64

    I can only hope the Invisible Man reference was to a different one than Christopher E. played, since I'm pretty sure he has been on the run for years and wouldn't have been helping the Company at this point in the timeline. And now Claire has ANOTHER Uncle.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:05 a.m. CST

    good sylar...

    by jason baum

    is the best thing about the television show - in all 3 seasons. yes, the turn could have gradually happened, but whatever, i think it's brilliant and i love quinto's struggle.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    god this show blows now. it is sooo bad.

    by THE_ONE_MAN_GANG

    it has some of the worst ideas i have ever seen on tv. i tossed this show about a month ago. i really give it a chance. i did. the people writing this are laughing at you. seriously.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:25 a.m. CST

    dudes

    by Cap'n Jack

    "Peter takes powers. He keeps them after he takes them. Papa Petrelli took *all* of Peter's powers. That includes -- Flying. The company already knew where African Isaac was, so anyone nitpicking how Papa Petrelli got there really hasn't been paying attention."<br><br>Peter also has Hiro's ability, so arthur could have teleported there, he can also travel in time and freeze time. Arthur is very dangerous now.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Let Alan Moore write a few episodes.

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    Then a few weeks later he can get pissed off, blame Tim Kring for ruining his work, and sue to have his name taken off the episodes.......

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:38 a.m. CST

    I couldn't stand Coleman last night; over the top, he was.

    by Pennsy

    I thought he was trying a bit too hard, while Bell and Quinto were a little more relaxed and natural, not trying to overact. And damned if the streak continued; whenever you put Kristen in the closing scene of the teaser, you're in for a very good episode. It's been that way since her debut last year in Fight or Flight.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:38 a.m. CST

    So many continuity breaks!

    by Snake Foreskin

    Elle was a loner? What about her daddy, the man with the Midas touch, who ran the Company? HRG threatened her with being left in NYC all alone unless she cooperated with him.<p> Mama Petrelli was a sweet woman until Arthur tried to kill Nathan and Linderman (who suddenly has a conscience)decided to heal her scarred brain amd restore her memories? THEN she becomes a bitch? The brothers acted like she was an overbearing bitch for quite a while.<p> What's more important, in Season One didn't everyone talk about Papa Petrelli commiting suicide? Wasn't he supposed to testify against Linderman in court and supposedly couldn't hack it? How then did Nathan see daddy dying from a supposed heart attack on the floor of his parent's dining room? This show has worse continuity than Star Trek!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Another week, another series-low...

    by Pennsy

    4.9 rating, 7 share. Down 25% from a year ago; at this rate, the CW may be nipping at their heels.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Snake Foreskin: Answers! (plus HRG & Linderman)

    by chrth

    Re: Elle: her father was mentioned in the ep. I think it was an idle threat on HRG's part.<p> Re: Mama Petrelli: Re-watch the first few episodes of Season 1. Mama Petrelli is screwed up; she even overdosed on pills at one point, iirc. It's only later in the season that she became Evil (still the best line of Season 2: "You're Evil, Ma"). Obviously it took her some time to overcome the effects of Papa's meddling. I don't think it was until after Peter and Nathan learned of Mama Petrelli's support of the bomb that they understood her evilocity.<p> Re: Papa Petrelli. No, it was always a heart attack. Not sure where you're getting the suicide from (unless you're confusing him with Mama's drug overdose).<p> HRG: Again, this is similar to how HRG was at the beginning of the 1st season. Coleman may have overacted it a little, but it was consistent.<p> Linderman: I think Linderman was just scared of Arthur at that point and knew the best way to stop him was via Mama Petrelli.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:40 a.m. CST

    $4M per episode

    by veritasses

    Popping popcorn with Pyro Man's power. Two people with fire abilities shooting multiple fireballs because they can't hit the side of a barn. The whole train sequence. The car crash. One decapitated African guy. A huge cast. 100 different locations because of huge cast. An entire episode that tried to explain just some of the jumbled mess of stories Kring has strung together and which wouldn't have been necessary if they knew what they were doing from the beginning etc. It's worth noting though that the Haitian's power actually save money. <br><br> What was better about this episode was the stronger focus on character and plot as well as the lack of coma inducing bad dialog and stupid moments (there were still stupid moments, but they weren't coma inducing). Just to be clear though, this wasn't a good episode by any means... though I don't think it was the writer's fault as much it is Kring and his "vision". Unfortunately, just about every part of the show is such a huge mess that "better than usual" writing doesn't mean much.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Ratings

    by chrth

    Remember, Heroes is one of the top DVR+7 shows, so you just can't look at its overnights (although, of course, the DVR eyeballs shouldn't count as much as regular eyeballs). There also still 3rd in the ratings, Fox is still sucking way worse than NBC on Monday night. But when House and 24 show up in January ...<p> NBC needs to move Heroes to a new night, otherwise it might not see a season 4.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:48 a.m. CST

    re: chrth

    by _Maltheus_

    Mama once lied to Peter and told him that Papa killed himself after Peter jumped off the building in S1.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:48 a.m. CST

    In the show's blog, Beyond the Eclipse...

    by Pennsy

    It's looking like a 7-week break between the end of 'Villains' and the beginning of the 'Fugitives' arc. Which means the show will resume either on February 2nd or 9th. And as for moving it, the only option I saw in moving to a different night evaporated (Wednesdays).

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:52 a.m. CST

    one of the stupid thing about the show

    by Lane_myers111

    one of the stupid concepts of the show is that there would be any chance whatsoever of keeping the special abilities secret from the general public. With all the things that have happened out in the open as well as the fact that you have random people developing powers there is absolutely no way it would not be widespread knowledge by now. They need to get it out in the open and incorperate that aspect of acceptance into the show. (admittedly thats x men territory but the way they have it now would be completely impossible to maintain in reality)

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:52 a.m. CST

    One more question, chrth...

    by Pennsy

    Where do you move the show to, if not Wednesday? Not Friday or Saturday, obviously, as the former's lineup is just cratering against Ghost Whisperer. Thursday is off-limits, and if you shift to Tuesdays, then it'll get punked by American Idjit Karaoke. Not too many options on a network that has one foot off the cliff, staring into the abyss.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Just watching this weeks episode

    by Lane_myers111

    that scene on the train with eric roberts was terrible

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Why not Friday at 9?

    by chrth

    Heroes had its best numbers after DOND. The best show on 9pm Friday is a freaking CBS rerun (which CBS is replacing with a new show at some point) so it's a vulnerable slot. It's also vulnerable since another new show (Dollhouse) will be there.<p> I don't think Heroes will ever recapture its original numbers. But there's no reason it can't be a steady performer. And to save cash, maybe they could get rid of some freakin' characters!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    _Maltheus_: Thanks, I had forgotten that

    by chrth

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Moving it to Wednesday?!

    by PirateEmery

    ARE YOU INSANE? That would put a dying superpower against a formerly dying superpower that has had several REALLY good seasons since then. The world would explode if TV viewers were forced to choose between Heroes and LOST.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:12 a.m. CST

    The perception, though, chrth - Friday is the new Saturday.

    by Pennsy

    As in a graveyard. That's why the Whedonites are up in arms over Dollhouse going there. Look at the sad-sack numbers for Lipstick Jungle. And I fear if Heroes goes to Fridays, then the perception will take hold that NBC knows the end is near for the show. Right or wrong, that is.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Wednesday at 8, not 9. Just to clarify.

    by Pennsy

    Heroes seems like an '8PM show' to me, at least, if you don't count the beheading of African Esaak at the end of last night's episode.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Chrth, I appreciate the try, but you're mistaken

    by Snake Foreskin

    Papa Petrelli was definitely said to have committed suicide in Season One. I've seen whole threads on fan sites devoted to that season where people are talking about Papa Petrelli committing suicide. mama Petrelli told her sons he committed suicide. Google "Petrelli suicide" for yourself.<p> And there was no line about Elle's dad in the last episode. HRG specifically threatened her with being left alone. From Season 2 we know Elle's dad was head of the company until he was killed. Then Mama Petrelli took over. So HRG threatening Elle, the boss's daughter, just doesn't make sense! It was a flub-up that makes me cringe.<p> Here's some evidence from Wikipedia: "She confides in Peter that she has lived in the Company's holding facility for 16 years. She also admits to being diagnosed as a sociopath; Noah tells Elle that Bob allowed the Company to perform tests on her which had begun as early as the age of seven. This included subjecting her to high doses of electricity, which scarred her emotionally for life. Elle has no recollection of the tests, and Noah suggests the Haitian had a role in causing Elle to forget her experiences." So clearly she was in the company from an early age and her dad was head of the company, therefore the HRG threat in the last episode was ridiculous!<p> I wish this show was written by people who could keep up with their viewers. It's embarrassing and infuriating!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Only way to save Heroes now is a 'Crisis' event...

    by Orbots Commander

    ...i.e. just reboot the whole story bible, eliminate a bunch of characters and re-set the rules of the Heroes' universe. Inside of a Season and a half (S2 and S3) Kring and company have managed to write themselves into a giant corner. Unless they do a re-boot, the show is a dead man walking.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST

    re: Snake Foreskin

    by _Maltheus_

    Yes, HRG did mention Elle's dad in last night's episode. It stood out, cause I was wondering about him too until they mentioned him. And it's not like her Dad wouldn't threaten her himself.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 11:31 a.m. CST

    Some enterprising TV executive...

    by Orbots Commander

    ...should learn the lessons of how Heroes screwed themselves with inconsistent and silly writing, and then proceed to option the Wildcards series of novels. The concept of seeing the week to week drama of Aces and Jokers would be really cool.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    The whole business with HRG and Elle

    by PirateEmery

    Was just bad... I know it and apparently several others in this TB picked up on it too...<p> Heroes usually has one or two continuity errors in each episode... However, this one was different: there was nearly a continuity error in EACH scene!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Friday (and Saturday) night 'wasteland'

    by chrth

    Is only because the networks allow them to be wastelands. CBS has demonstrated that you can have successful shows on a Friday night. Yes, HUTs are lower. But it's not completely gone.<p> Yes, it's going to be tough for Dollhouse because it's a new show, it follows a show that's not doing very well, and because the Whedon name does not excite a very, very large percentage of the American viewing public (sorry Herc). But Heroes is an established show. It may be able to prosper on Friday night.<p> Besides, with the way things are going on Monday night -- and with 24 on its way -- it may be Heroes' best hope for long-term survival.<p> And if Lipstick Jungle is on past midseason, NBC needs to fire everybody because obviously they have no clue what they're doing.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 12:50 p.m. CST

    How Heroes should have gone

    by jimmy_009

    The whole thing was based on the idea that these are Heroes in OUR world, the real world. The potential was huge and it started out well. They completely went the wrong direction with it and quickly made this the "Heroes" universe instead of ours. What makes Heroes different than Mutant X or similar shows? Nothing. All we see are the sinister plots and unrealistic cabals and agencies, nothing about the real world. What they should have done was actually project out what would happen if real superheroes lived among us, what the show PROMISED from the start. Forget these endless, convoluted plots. Make the Heroes public and deal with the consequences. All of these heroes exist and not one wants to put on some spandex and fight crime, get on the news, etc? This show had potential but they forgot what was good about their concept. They blew it.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    NBC and Global TV promos for next week are online.

    by Pennsy

    http://www.heroes-france.com/news_1226386456.htm

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:26 p.m. CST

    does anyone see this show returning next year?

    by slappy jones

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 1:29 p.m. CST

    slappy jones: Yes

    by chrth

    NBC doesn't have much choice because their lineup has so many holes. I also imagine that if Heroes is cancelled by NBC, another network might make a grab for it. Ignoring creative issues for a second, NBC has done a lousy job with Heroes since Season 1: removing it from DOND; pairing it with shows that just aren't being watched (sorry, Journeyman fans); not bringing it back after the strike (this has hurt a lot of shows). CBS could put it on Friday at 9 and pull in more viewers than NBC is doing right now, and I bet CBS knows it.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    by Oldnewbie

    PirateEmery....You are right about Elle; it was the first thing I thought when I saw her out with HRG. According to last season, she had spent almost her entire life inside the company and her first mission was to get Peter. But then again, last season HRG told her about all the tortures her father had done to her as a child that she couldn't remember. So it is possible the Haitian erased her memory of this mission as well.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 3:24 p.m. CST

    I just watched this five minutes ago

    by Xiphos_2

    I'm not sure why everybody is going gaga over it. It's definantly an improvement over the proceeding weeks but now I think more plot holes are opening up and what continuity it has is about to be bent over a chair again..<p>On the plus side, just how hot is the cheerverines pyro mom? Jesus, Mary and Joseph that's a fine piece.<p>More Eric Roberts please. He's the talented member of the Roberts clan.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Jimmy i completely agree with that

    by Lane_myers111

    it was heroes in our world as u said and they fucked it up. Also after just watching the end of the latest episode and got me thinking..im Hiro..i have a special ability..im in a hut in africa and i hear the scream of a friend outside..what do i do..hmmm...WHY DONT YOU INSTANTLY FREEZE TIME YOU STUPID DICK..he then walks outside sees whose causing the problem teleports them to the middle of the ocean and teleports back duh!! in the first season he did it all the time to stop people being hit by trucks or dying in car fires but he never does it anymore. really fucking annoying

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Problems with Heroes

    by CMan

    Most of the talkbacker critics have pointed out the main flaws in last night's episode, which for me was one of the worst (and I too am a Heroes apologist, though not as bad as Chrth...no disrespect). But no one has addressed the continuity between Sylar and Elle. We've seen these two encounter each other twice (once at the end of Season 2) and again at the beginning of this season when they caused the villains to be set free. At no point in either event did the two acknowledge knowing each other. Now I will allow the season two example to be refuted by the fact that Sylar ran away from Elle when she saved Mohinder, Molly, and Maya. But why didn't the two acknowledge having met before when Sylar shows up on Level 5 at the beginning of this season? He merely taunted her about killing her father. Their exchange leads me to believe that the writers thought of the flashback after they had written that episode, which was badly constructed based on previous continuity. Other folks noted HRG's interaction with Elle (plus Elle's lack of a sociopathic nature even though this episode's events took place before she met Peter). I have a real problem understanding Pa Petrelli's power (btw he was mentioned as having committed suicide in the first season, Chrth) because I thought he absorbed the power from people by physically taking it away, yet he was shown, in the past, to have Maury's power and the Haitian's without them having lost their ability. These problems plus Pa Petrelli not killing Hiro like he did the African painter cause me to be very concerned about the show's rapid decline in quality.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Oldnewbie

    by PirateEmery

    The Haitian... solving continuity errors since 2006.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 4:44 p.m. CST

    but..

    by Lane_myers111

    although if papa patrelli has his power which he stole from peter i suppose it wouldnt affect him but he didnt know that so if the writers had made him freeze time and then patrelli had surprised him by being unaffected it would have been better. He could have stood still by the african guy pretending to be frozen and then suddenly grabbed him to steal his powers.that would have been much more effective

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Am I supposed to believe that Papa...

    by PirateEmery

    ... never touched anyone?

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 5:25 p.m. CST

    pirate

    by Lane_myers111

    i think he can touch people without stealing their power.its up to him if he wants to take it. but why would he not steal everyones power he comes in contact with..i would. Maybe that power only came to him while he was paralysed

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 5:34 p.m. CST

    CMan

    by PirateEmery

    The reason I didn't refer to the "Seller" relationship in my rants was because of the reasons you cited above. The whole deal with Sylar-Elle-Noah... EVERYTHING in those scenes contradict an earlier episode. So, Sylar killing Elle's father was for revenge for her... what?<p> You know what... FUCK it. I'm done. I tried. But now I'm officially done. I decided prior to this season that the show sucked but that I'd keep watching it because I had nothing else on a Monday night. Now I'm of the mindset that I'm better off just doing ANYTHING but watching Heroes. I feel as though I'd be smarter to just watch the paint on my walls than try to deal with this drivel that the "writers" keep coming with. It isn't HARD to have a constant afterthought of continuity. All you have to do is say, "hey, is anything in this scene blaringly contradictory of an earlier episode?" That's all they have to do! Just have that ONE THOUGHT while writing new episodes.<p> Fuck Heroes. Fuck Kring. Fuck NBC.<p> AHGHAGHGHAHGAHGAHHAHG!

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 7:46 p.m. CST

    Sylar killing Elle's father was for revenge for her... what?

    by gotilk

    seriously? He already dissects with glee. He arrived at a decision to quit and Elle brought him fresh meat on purpose. Not sure how that's unclear or not motivational.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Am I an apologist? Depends on your definition

    by chrth

    If you use the traditional definition, then yes, I am. If you use the Internet definition of 'someone who defends something without criticism against trolls, etc.' then no, I am not. <p> Heroes is flawed. It's by no means perfect. My role on this (and other) talkbacks is to merely point out where arguments may not have merits. My history on AICN over the past decade has always been motivated by an adherence to honesty and logic. My approach to Heroes and BSG (where I am also a defender of the 'faith', so say we all) is to point out flaws, defend against unwarranted attacks, and to answer as honestly and truthfully I can any questions that others pose.<p> I am guilty of a sort of pollyanna-ishness, in that in general I am optimistic (and this applies to everything, not just Heroes et al), so I am more often than not willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Do not confuse that, though, with unflinching loyalty. I once abandoned BSG and did not expect to return (interestingly enough, I gave up right before the ep where they introduced the best character ever, so my timing was piss-poor). I almost abandoned Heroes this season; if the episode with Sylar going ka-blooie didn't Kick Ass (as Talkbacker Chrth said), I might not have lasted to this point.<p> But it did, and I have. I don't apologize for that. So say we all.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 9:18 p.m. CST

    chrth.. it's a good way to be

    by gotilk

    People can be bothered by optimism. Not me. I strive for it, fail often, but remain optimistic that I can maintain my optimism. Good on you.

  • Nov. 11, 2008, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Papa Petrelli

    by Darth Chef

    I'd like to think that he does take powers, but that once a doner's body heals, adjusts, what ever, gets back that power after a time. Hence why he has Daddy Parkman's power.

  • Nov. 12, 2008, 1:17 a.m. CST

    jimmy_009 hit the nail on the head!

    by thevision

    The premise should've been the emergence of superheroes in the "real world" and how society would deal with them, instead its just become another conspiracy show AND more of the wimpy angst "I hate having powers and wish I were normal" Marvel-bullshit. Should take a page from JMS "Rising Stars" and actually have a guy or gal put on a costume-because in the "real world" if people were becoming endowed with abilities, someone would actually put on a costume and fight crime. What would put Heroes back on top is a season cliff-hanger where an unknown super would make his presence known buy doing a Superman or Hyperion and going public- that's what HEROES needs, their version of Superman- instead we get Peter Petrelli.

  • Nov. 12, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Still Worth Saving....

    by Memnoch71

    Hero's is still worth Saving if you ask me. Just get rid of some of the more Expendable Characters. I could care less if they kill off Maya, Elle, Ando, Daphne, and several of the Level 5 Bad Boys. This would make for a better show in my opinion. It would give some of the characters the necessary motivation to become interesting again. I want to see Parkman try to get back in with his wife and son, but be a more intense person in the process because of the loss of someone dear to him. Where has Nathan's family went off to? Please just get rid of Ali Larter or at least make her interesting again. I want to see Hiro start to become the Sword weilding, Ponytail wearing Bad-Ass he is supposed to become and start to lose the bad accent. Losing Ando is the thing that is supposed to move him in that direction. They keep on messing up the future with all of the Time Traveling, why can't this all lead to a complete reboot of these characters? I can live with Gabriel being Peter's brother. As a matter of a fact that made for one of the best episodes this season so far. I want to see Sylar\Gabriel be the ultimate Anti-Hero. Let him try to be the one to redeem himself, but at the same time be completely ruthless about it. The good old 'I'm trying to help and I don't give a damn if you don't approve of how I do it.' Get rid of both of the elder Petrelli's, let them take each other out. Let the next big catastrophy be because of the Actions of the Hero's and not because of some Decades-Long stupid plot straight out of an old James Bond movie. I half expect papa Petrelli to show up at a board meeting stroking a cat!

  • Nov. 12, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST

    gotilk

    by PirateEmery

    The reason I didn't finish that sentence was because I couldn't find the thought to finish it. This show has become SO convoluted that it makes no sense.<p> And I'm sorry, but your explanation doesn't even hint at why Elle and Sylar don't refer to their little thing. The writers are making this up as they go along.

  • Nov. 12, 2008, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Wait...You guys LIKED this episode? It was so flawed!!!

    by chaseguy17

    They basically tell us that the reason Papa patreli was in the hospital / almost dead, is because Mama Patreli poisoned him because he wanted to kill Nathan. Are these writers kidding me? How many times did we see Papa Patreli use his powers that episode to put thoughts into Mama Patreli's mind. How fucking retarded is Papa Patreli, that he didn't think to put thoughts into the mind of Nathan... Instead he decides to kill him? This is why the writers are fucking idiots. They set up plot points with specific characters that should logically be able to get out of them. I mean seriously...last episode we have Papa Patreli come up with the genius idea to have the speedster LIE and TRICK a character who is supposed to have the ability to read minds. First off...why would he come up with such a stupid plan...and second off, why the hell did Fat cop fall for it? Stuff like this is ridiculous.

  • Nov. 12, 2008, 5:22 p.m. CST

    PirateEmery

    by gotilk

    A LOT of those (and your) criticisms ARE fair. But I'm satisfied with the Elle-Sylar encounter. Bragging about taking out her daddy seemed like a comment that reflected a sense of betrayal.

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