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Massawyrm wonders 'Who the hell was W. made for, anyway?'
Hola all. Massawyrm here.
To say that I’m not a fan of George W. Bush is a bit of an understatement.
As a lifelong traditionally conservative Republican, I have watched as the party of Lincoln, the party of Eisenhower and the party of Reagan has been systematically taken apart brick by brick by this man and his sycophantic group of catch phrase spewing cronies. Christopher Buckley said it best this week in his open resignation letter to the National Review when he wrote “I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for.
Eight years of 'conservative' government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.” The list of affronts to the very foundation of the party is longer than almost any list of grievances that any card carrying democrat could level against this administration. We’re no longer a party built upon the fundamentals of a political philosophy – we’ve become Anti-crats.
Pick a position held by a prominent democrat. That’s what we oppose now. Oh sure, we still loathe gun laws, government regulation and abortion for our own reasons, but not because of some overarching concept of state’s rights and limited government. No. We hate them because Jesus told us to. That’s what the conservative movement has been reduced to.
And while one could easily blame Rovian electioneering principles or manipulation by high ranking neo-conservatives or James Dobson and his accursed Focus on The Family, there is only one man truly accountable for the unmitigated clusterfuck that this country has found itself trying desperately to claw its way out of. And now, before his political career is even cold, Oliver Stone has produced a bizarre psychoanalysis of the man who still occasionally appears on the front lawn of the White House to remind us all that “I’m still President,” like we care and aren’t quietly counting down his last 100 days to ourselves.
And that’s what really has me in such a weird way about W. It’s not that I dislike, disagree or disapprove of ANYTHING this film has to say or offer. I just don’t know who the hell it was made for. One might call it a comedy, but it isn’t one. There are some laughs, sure, but mostly in very dramatic situations or at Thandie Newton’s beautifully ironic birdlike impression of Condi Rice. But this isn’t goofing on Bush. It is explaining him.
It is an incredibly even handed approach considering the source and leaves out a lot of the obvious barbs. What won’t you see? A single grain of cocaine. A drunken car crash. Bush in the National Guard. Dirty smear politics against McCain in the 2000 primaries. My Pet Goat. Almost none of the usual gripes or jabs. You also won’t see him misspeak very often. What would appear to be the perfect chance for a comedy of errors and an exercise in slaughtering grammar instead proves to be very kid gloved on the issue, only offering up a few choice, unforgettable lines of Bushspeak.
Instead the film focuses on the fact that George W. Bush is the less intelligent son of a former President who could never escape his brother’s or father’s shadow despite struggling every day of his life to do so; only to exceed them both by accomplishing everything neither could. Then fucking it all up. He is a well intentioned buffoon, a man who wants nothing more than to do the right thing, only to repeatedly prove just how woefully inadequate he is. It is a sympathetic film about a guy named George who lives the life of a shiftless drunk only to find God and almost magically become president. And it becomes very easy to like him – until the occasional moment when you are confronted by recent events and you remember that this is the feckless dipshit that has the missile codes. And here’s the kicker. It all feels VERY REAL.
There is little doubt in my mind that this is the closest to the truth there is to get. Personally I’ve never bought into the whole evil, Machiavellian, Hitler-esque picture of the man that many radicals paint. I’m a firm believer in Hanlon’s Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. This film is a true exercise in that principle. Even Cheney, the dark sith lord himself (who is more machine now than man), gets a most fair portrayal. Even when he runs a laser pointer over the oil fields of Iraq and Iran it is with the intention of putting America in a position that no one can ever fuck with us again.
My problem with the film isn’t that it is quite possibly a fair and even handed look at the single most disastrous administration in modern history, it is that I’m not sure who is going to want to see a fair and even handed look at the single most disastrous administration in modern history. Liberals are going to find it a rather toothless assault on an easy target and nothing akin to the evisceration that many of them have hoped for. And those Republicans that don’t sit there trying to delude themselves into thinking that this is just another liberal smear piece are going to find it a 2 hour and 9 minute walk of shame – a thorough reminder that you once voted for this man because he said things you agreed with (but he never followed through with), had the last name Bush and had your ass completely snowed into thinking he was in any way competent to hold the position of President. It is not in any way an ENJOYABLE film.
It is however a very well made one.
Josh Brolin gives the performance of a lifetime. I always knew Brolin had talent – but never this much talent. He BECOMES George W. Bush. While it is easy to look at photos of him in the role and see the differences, it is almost impossible to do so when he is moving and talking. His mannerisms, speech pattern, vocal inflection. It’s fucking George W. Bush. He’s so good you occasionally forget that you’re watching someone portray the president. Then you’ll see Brolin inserted into some famous footage like the infamous aircraft carrier landing and you get a rather sharp reminder that this isn’t actually Bush that you’re watching. Just an incredible facsimile that will no doubt earn Brolin a very well deserved Oscar nod.
Many of the performances are like that. For the first moment or two the person looks just like the actor they really are – but then they do something small and become the person they’re portraying. The way Richard Dreyfuss hangs his jaw in that crooked open mouthed Cheney smile. Rob Corddry’s uncanny portrayal of Ari Fleischer. Elizabeth Bank’s far too on target Laura Bush. Toby Jones ultimately creepy immersion into a Karl Rove flesh suit and crap ass comb-over.
There are even a pair of incredible performances that are NOTHING like the real thing, but so good you don’t care. James Cromwell gives a turn as Bush the Elder that will endear him even to the most devout of left wing republican haters. And Jeffrey Wright’s Colin Powell doesn’t even seem to physically capture Powell at all. You just know it’s him by process of elimination. But man does he steal the show, in part due to Stone’s seeming elevation of Colin Powell to near sainthood. Stone is so in love with Powell throughout the film (as goddamned well he should be), having him truly be the voice of reason in any scene he needs someone speaking both rationally and intelligently, that it surprised me that God Bless America didn’t play every time he spoke. But Wright delivers each line, no matter how painfully patriotic (and obvious to the audience in hindsight), with a gentleness and authority that can only be ascribed to someone like Powell, that he truly captures the spirit of the man even if he doesn’t embody his physical presence.
Stone’s selection of scenes from Bush’s life are strung together out of order, slowly laying out the case that Bush is simply trying to live up to the ideals set by his father only to fail miserably. But he never belabors the point. There’s no montage of all the devastation Bush and company have wrought, no ending crawl or title cards that list a number of dead soldiers or try to remind us everything he’s done wrong. Stone knows he doesn’t need it. Hell, the movie never even has to get past 2003 to make its point, and it doesn’t. By the end of the film you feel the beginning of a long ending to a presidency many of us feared we’d never see the end of. It is an elegant, wonderfully constructed film made pretty much only for those that want to see a fascinating, if thoroughly depressing character study.
This isn’t some kind of slam dunk sucker punch to Bush on his way out of office or something to get you to vote for Obama instead of McCain. No. It is a very sad film about what will no doubt go down as a very bad period of American history. A time when our arrogance outmatched our capacity to do good and do right by the rest of the world. And at a time when our spirit can’t seem to get any lower, I’m not sure who is going to want to put themselves through a movie like this.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Massawyrm
Oh yeah. 96 more days.
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I often ask that question about Uwe Boll films ...
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and hoping it's better than World Trade Center. I still can't believe Oliver Stone made that film, it was like a TV movie.
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Massawyrm wonders why it wasn't more of an antiBush left wing protest film, right?
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They took away his column, didn't they?
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I wanted to see it before. Now I REALLY want to see it. BTW: Great that nobody postet "first".
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so an AICN staffer is mad that an anti bush movie isn't an even bigger hatchet job? Or at least that's the impression I got between all the self absorbed clap trap. Big shocker there.
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There is nothing so powerful as a bad idea whose time has come.
And in this case, GW Bush is more powerful than the white hot nuclear furnace that is the sun's core. -
I really wanna see this now!
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If Powell is portrayed as a saint then how is his address t othe U.N. handled? Is it even seen? That monet completely destroyed the man's legacy in my opinion.
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Maybe we can get GOONIES II green-lit for theaters Summer 2010
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Question: since you're such a big reformer, will you collaborate with your good buddy Phil Gramm and close the Enron loop-hole?
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Is that some kind of joke?
And I think to ask 'who was this film made for?', about any film, is just insulting everyone's intelligence. You don't need to agree with an idea to be interested in it, and to reduce the potential audience for this film down into the increasingly meaningless 'left' and 'right' political camps is ridiculous. -
Oh yeah, because the 1st Amendment Champions at AICN just erased his posts!!! Good job guys! You are my heroes!
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And to think I actually read the review before gazing at the talkbacks. Darn the Luck!
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That review caught me off guard. I wasn't even going to see it, but now I am somewhat interested.
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Because AICN is at it again. No more Senator John McCain. And they probably banned him too. That's how you do it guys!!! That, and use ACORN to register Mickey Mouse and the entire starting line-up for the Dallas Cowboys.
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fiscal, Paleocon, etc. conservatives, as if that is any better than Neoconservatism. Both are mean, failed ideologies.
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So Conservatism is a 'failed ideology?' I'm sure that it didn't have anything to do with the cronies that trashed the idealism of Senator Goldwater and President Reagan, right? C'mon brother! Didn't your little left wing communist ideology fail like a motherfucker? Yeah, thought so. Thanks for making everything so black and white with your brilliantly composed thesis.
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So the 60% of this country who self-describe as conservatives do this because they're Christian fundamentalists? I realize that it's easy and safe to say this because the media has been beating this into our weary heads for about 10 years now(since Lewinsky) but that math doesn't really add up when you think about it. There are reasons other than Jesus magic that people choose to not to be foaming liberals.
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Your days of bullying on the AICN talkboards is over!
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Is ignoring the retards in the talkbacks.
Anyway, that was a great read Massawyrm. Sounds like this will be an interesting film to watch and I'm honestly kinda glad the movie just didn't end up being Bush and Cheney Go To White Castle. It'll be nice to see a more even handed take on the whole subject. -
And maybe the film isn't for anybody just an attempt to set the record straight?
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you know the Republicans are gonna say this whole film is a low blow- why not serve them up???
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I was mildly curious about this film before. Now I'm downright interested in seeing it.
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Very well written and descriptive. Sounds like a strange move by Stone to even make this film. HOT TIP: Forget the stock market, invest in assault weapons. AR-15's AK-47's, anything semi-auto that holds more than 15 rounds in a single magazine. Judging from his record and liberalism, Obama will be the most anti-gun president in US history. No doubt there will be some STRICT gun laws put into place within a year of him taking office. You can triple your investments by slowly selling off your weapons for the next 4 years.
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If they do it like Fargo, it can't fail! Snowy small town corruption, incompetance, and happenstance. The Coens just have to switch into their default gear of making fun of hicks and the thing writes itself.
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Oct 15, 2008 2:17:42 PM CDT
Bill Brasky, Communism is cool, Communes are fun living.
by stereotypical evil archer
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...that's about all I need.
Also, I doubt Massa is really a "lifelong, traditionally conservative Republican."
Who are you voting for in this election, Massa? -
I'm no Bush fan, and I like to vote for moderates, whether democrat or republican. I don't need to see this movie to confirm what I alreday know.. the Bush has failed us. What gets me is how polarizing he is. The very things he seems to do (or not do) are symptoms of every single politician in Washington today... especially Obama and McCain. These people are all a reflection of what our society has become. They are the way they are because we have made them try to cater to us. We're like sheep, but instead little children looking for a handout. The reality of George Bush is no surprise to anyone, least of all those of us who voted for him.. but the scary side of that is that the alternatives we have aren't any better.
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Oct 15, 2008 2:20:36 PM CDT
ALEXANDER looks awesome, but is forgetable.
by stereotypical evil archer
It's strange how that movie doesn't work.
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I wanted an honest review from a fellow disenfranchised Republican--and that's exactly what I got.
I'm suspecting that this film may end up being required watching for anybody wanting to run for public office--so they can, if nothing else, make sure that they are doing so for the right reasons. -
Can't wait to see this!
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as he was doing temporary work to replace Mark Steyn's space while he was on leave (if you REALLY care you can see the story about it on their blog on 10/14). I think he then offered a resignation which NR accepted. So, it's not quite as hostile as you would think it is. But I still think that Both Buckleys leaving the NR (one intentionally, one symbolically way) speaks worlds as to the status of the Republican party after the Bush debacle.
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"As a lifelong traditionally conservative Republican..."
'nuff said
you probably voted for Bush back in 2000 -
I almost wish that Stone had made two movies - this one, and then an underhanded, below-the-belt nipple twister that was nothing BUT a gigantic smear job on the Worst President Ever. Lord knows he would've had enough ammunition.
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I remember reading a supremely arrogant comment by Tom Wolfe about American Cultural, economic and military dominance before the rot set in. It was unbelievably triumphant. Anybody know what it was and what he thinks of it now?
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I was just watching the 1978 version of the Invasion of the Bodysnatchers. It's an excellent portrayal of the Bush presidency. I just love reading the posts of these idjits who try to defend dubya. His approval is 27 percent. Massawyrm laid out a list of how dubya spit in the eye of traditional conservatism. Where's the argument? Where's the facts showing that dubya is living up to the conservative ideals of Reagan, let alone Lincoln? Oh that's right, we're all foaming radical communisits for doubting dubya, and that's all the argument you need. That's why everyone thinks you are retarded, because you can't defend your own positions without sounding like junior high drop-outs who listen to too much Limbaugh. "Dubya was a failure? SO WHAT! OBAMA IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HEAVY MACHINE GUNS AND ANTI TANK WEAPONS (or so some GOP fear-monger says)". Next time, just type "I POOPED MY PANTS! McCain is just like ME!", we'll know what you mean. Good Job!
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Yeah, vote for him just because he's not George Bush. That makes a lot of sense. Bush ain't even running! Try looking at this clown's resume and tell me it's a good idea to have the paperboy running the paper!
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Why would anyone want to waste one more second of their lives thinking about Bush is beyond me. Does this give you closure? Will you now see Bush as a tragic figure, rather than evil incarnate?
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This is one of the best pieces you've ever written.
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Kudos to you.
Insights were actually interesting.
Did W. send Fury out to retrieve Captain America's Shield from the artic?
Don would be a better Fury. -
Really, all bad?
Nothing.
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That is some esteemed company. -
Vote for "that one" who was basically encouraging the hate being showered upon his recent campaign stops by not saying anything to those who spewed that crap. At least he corrected that one woman who said Obama was an Arab.
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...."Hanlon’s Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"...LOVE THAT....going to use that all the time...although I might have to say I read it in a book somewhere, sorry Massa.
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No, Buckley resigned after the conservative reaction to his article where he endorsed Obama. Massa hit the nail on the head. I recommend looking up some articles on what happened because it's interesting to see a real conservative any more.
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To wit: " there is only one man truly accountable for the unmitigated clusterfuck that this country has found itself trying desperately to claw its way out of."
That's utter bullshit. Everyone who stood by while the presidency was decided by the Supreme Court, who voted for his second term, who did not care when it was revealed we were party to torture now, who didn't blink when this administration spent money like a trust fund kid given his first amex card... Anyone who believed that the division between liberal and conservative meant anything beyond tribal stupidity, It's all on your hands, too. -
...to meet (or better) his father's expectations and failed. It's that we put him in a position where he could do so much damage if he did.
But he's done so much damage - and seemingly unappologetically - that I refuse to feel any sympathy for him. I've said I don't think he is malicious, but that's all I'll give him.
Now, the propagandists in the media and the demogogues in the legislature that marched lock-step with him and shouted down any dissent or attempts at accountability, those folks can BURN IN HELL. -
God I hate that selective, arrogant bullshit. The Republicans are also the party of Harding, Hoover, Nixon and G.W. Bush, pretty much the four most disastrous Presidents we've ever had. Both parties have had chief executives both great and incompetent. Picking out the cream of the crop and ignoring the buffoons doesn't make your party inherently better. The Dems pull this shit too, but the Republicans invoke Reagan like he's the 2nd coming of Christ.
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You know, a person can fall into more than just the far-right neocon and far-left liberal camps. There might be reasons that someone might not want to become a "foaming liberal" but that doesn't automatically put them in the neocon category, which is what Massa is talking about.
Besides, when was the last time you heard a "conservative" mention states rights? -
Oct 15, 2008 3:17:22 PM CDT
I just don't get Republicans who invoke Reagan...
by hawaiian organ donor
...as a true conservative in the same vein as Eisenhower. Republicans should curse Reagan because his economic policies and evangelical base ushered in the end of true conservatism. The only difference between Reagan and Bush was that Ronnie knew how to talk in coherent sentences and without looking smug.
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His father was great
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Thanks for making my point. God this nation becomes more like Idiocracy all the time.
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...see the past eight years exactly as the liberal Treason Media have portrayed it.If you were REALLY a "lifelong traditionally conservative Republican", you'd know that the problem isn't that the party went to the far right, hijacked by Rove and Jesus, but that it swerved to the left, futilely trying to pander to the liberal-moderate voters. "Hey, we'll give you free everything, too! You want some amnesty for invading our country? Coming right up!" THAT is why the GOP is SOL these days; they ran to the left and left true conservatives behind.
Of course, a "lifelong traditionally conservative Republican" would have known this. Which is exactly why I had to explain it to you, Massa. You aren't. -
He corrected that woman who said Obama was an Arab by saying, "No maaam, Senator Obama is a decent family man." So Arab's can't be decent family men? Gotta love the Republicans. Even when they try to do something good they fuck it up with their ignorance and hate.
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And I can't speak to how satisfying it is to see real conservatives coming back to their roots and breaking the traditional Republican 1st Commandment: 'Thou shalt not condemn fellow Republicans', in order to condemn the "psuedo-Republican & psuedo-Conservative" neo-con usurpers/parasites. Shit, even the word "neo-conservative" is basically an oxy-moron! I wouldn't praise Reagan that much either as he marked, in some ways, the beginning of the end of the historically traditional GOP. Here's to hoping you guys get the real party back to form and play a true counter-argument to Democrats. Of course, the modern Democrats need a similar rebirth too but that's another story.Oh and hate on Buckley if you want but what he says is quite interesting...even for the libs out there - I'd bet you'd agree with him on McCain on a variety of issues if you just read his article. And you'd definitely agree with Buckley's take on Palin. If more conservatives spoke their minds instead of apparently keeping mum for the sake of party unity appearances, then maybe she would have never got in the picture and basically fucked McCain's chances in the first place. Opinions, natch.
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"Treason Media"?
It's wierd, but crazy righties and crazy lefties are starting to speak the same language. Isn't it obvious that BOTH parties abandoned their constiuents to pursue and service the very rich? The Jesus talk, as well as the talk from the left bout ending the war or fixing healthcare is just lip service while they plunder this country for the benefit of the special interests which bought and own them. Wake up and stop blaming the left, they're in the same boat as you, and as long as the treason media can keep parroting the poison that flows from the lips of the thieves in charge of this nation to divide us and keep us hating each other, your lifestyle is only going to get worse. Isn't it time for us to put aside this kind of poisonous rhetoric and take our country back to make it something worth fighting over again? -
got to let the sorrow, horror, and shame fade a little before it can be laughed at
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Being a beligerent conservative doesn't make your penis any larger. Sorry to bear the bad news. Obama and McCain are both corporate stooges, with almost identical platforms on the real issues: "Fix nothing and let the rich keep plundering". Fixing our country won't happen in this election, but this economic meltdown could start waking people up. Or you could keep letting Rush and Moveon do your thinking for you, in which case I'll see you in the sweatshops!
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but because its murder.
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Thanks for that, now I won't have to right it myself.
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Thanks for that, now I won't have to write it myself.
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Oct 15, 2008 3:55:46 PM CDT
i cant wait for this. I luv me some Stone political flicks
by col. tigh-fighter
Nixon is a truly great film and should be seen more.
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Oct 15, 2008 3:58:23 PM CDT
There is NO McCain Vote; a vote for McC is a vote for Palin
by sepulchrave
and Palin IS Bush in a skirt. The neo-cons are grooming her already; she's dumber than pigshit, has the mental horizons of an earwig and is malicious and arrogant in that way that only people who have nothing to be proud of, that empty prom-queen pride, can be. And McCain is OLD and VERY SICK and will DIE. So vote for the clever paperboy who talks about hope or vote for the stupid beauty queen with the hate running through her. But don't pretend that there's any vote for McCain going.
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"There is little doubt in my mind that this is the closest to the truth there is to get.Personally I’ve never bought into the whole evil....."
Ahahahahahaha!!!!!!AAHHHHAHAHAH! What a maroon. 'Hes just stoopid! thas all!'
Holy shit, thats hilarious.
its not that theres "little doubt" in your mind......just very little anything. -
You see him giving addresses these days and you can tell that he's only fully grasped his legacy to the world.
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"The village idiot sells a nation for magic beans"
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This is just the flipside of "Obama is a terrorist!" Palin isn't hitler, you can read her emails on line with regards to trooper gate, and the woman isn't a moron. She is totally unprepared to be VP or President, true.
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Skate or Die!!!!!
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YOU did. I said she was malicious, small-minded and unimpressive in the way that nearly all smug suburban evangelist prom-queens are. we all detested them at school, when they were sniggering at the freaks and geeks; and that's what you're voting for; a totally undeveloped personality; one who stocks the government with her highschool buddies. A tiny, tiny woman ina BIG world.
Not a monster; worse; a prating nobody. -
a thorough reminder that you once voted for this man/woman because s/he said things you agreed with (but s/he never followed through with), had the same political party as you and had your ass completely snowed into thinking he was in any way competent to hold the position of President
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Yes, Conservatism is a failed ideology. No, talking about 1980s liberalism has no particular relevance today.
It is the conservatism of an administration that is in charge today, albeit not much longer, that killed over two thousand americans, deciminated America's reputation and powerbase worldwide, and simply slaughtered thousands of Iraqi men, women, and children in their hometowns. That sir, will be the legacy of American conservatism for years to come. -
Obama at least has a harvard law degree. Palin has a journalism degree she went to 3 colleges to get. However, they both serve the same corporate masters. But so does McCain, Pelosi, Dubya, et al. We need to hold politicians accountable for their actions in office.
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people would understand the value of confidence. Obama and Palin are not the same; the image is as important as the resume. Obama has worked very hard to run a clean campaign, to raise people's expectations, to appeal to their better natures. McCain and Palin had behaved revoltingly, invoked racism, stood by which people yelled death threats and he in particular has jettisoned all his earlier principles to wallow in the sty of redneck prejudice. One candidate will make the world FEEL a lot better. The other will make a minority of hoodlums yell and holler but will send the rest of humanity into a psiral of depression that will, yes, affect the global economy and people's faith in the future. So they are not the same; they are both dubious in content but one is psychological poison and the other is a symbol for progression and healing, some sort of new development.
Vote for the idea that appeals to you. -
The reviewer spends many paragraphs putting his Bush Derangement Syndrome on display and then has the audacity to suggest that the Oliver Stone hit piece on President Bush is "balanced." In fact the thesis of W, that President Bush (who made better grades at Yale and Harvard than both Gore and Kerry, those smart liberals) is stupid and ridiculous. This is the kind of slander lefties always use against conservatives. Reagan, who wound up winning the Cold War, was an "amiabloe dunce." Bush is a drunken frat boy. And so it goes.
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Man, I thought they was a myth. Stone is being VERY KIND to Bush and Massawyrm is being SUPER NICE to both. Jeez, OLIVER STONE makes a chunk of pro-Bush propaganda and W's moronic disciples are too dumb even to appreciate him for it.
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"...the single most disastrous administration in modern history." James Dobson = evil. Only a fucktard liberal would say these things. Yeah, Bush is nothing special and will be judged poor by history. But, for example, Reagan worked with the Christian Right more than Bush ever did. Reagan was accused of being dumb as intensely as Bush is. These inconsistencies are the hallmarks of .edu liberal looking to score cheap cred by claiming to be a "traditional conservative."
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Oct 15, 2008 4:33:15 PM CDT
James Dobson = evil. Only a fucktard liberal would say these thi
by sepulchrave
Only a redneck and an idiot would combine mindless defence of James Dobson and the word 'fucktard' in one post.
I really bet your thoughts are appreciated over at National Review and The Weekly Standard, oh conservative intellectual. -
Buckley was only temporarily writing Mark Steyn's column while Steyn was taking apart the Canadian free speech prevention courts. Buckley's also a huge hypocrite, spending months telling conservatives to sit down, shut up, and back the centrist McCain - only to turn his back on his guy at the last minute. One has to suspect he's going to continue down the David Brock path to millions from leftist readers.
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I suppose I'm not referring to all of you, so maybe some of you do think first. Still, I can't believe the anti-Obama comments on here! I personally think he'll make a great president, but he is only human.
I am aware of Obama's history. That's why I like him so much. As is typical in Chicago politics, someone pointed out that Rezko did something dirty and was also a contributor to Obama's campaign. In response, Obama donated a matching sum to a charity. That's the kind of guy he is.
If you're going to bash Obama, do your homework first and make your criticisms count. -
"It is the conservatism of an administration that is in charge today" - Bush 43 isn't remotely a conservative. He's a big government, center-left type who occasionally panders to social conservatives. In order to be a conservative, you have to be in favor of certain things: decentralized power, individual liberty, free markets, a government the size of the Constitution - all things 43 has emphatically rejected. For pity's sake, we're NATIONALIZING BANKS under him.
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...And our nation is in fine shape thanks to our glorious leader's inspired governance! Huzzah! Damn liberals and their inability to tell reality from pundit BS.
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WTF is that? If I go see 'Cloverfield'...was that made for people who like big scary monsters devouring cities? Then...I guess it was made for me...I hadn't thought about it before I viewed it.
In Stone's case, 'W.' was made for "People Who Enjoy Oliver Stone Movies"...But that same guy made 'Platoon' & 'Born on the 4th of July' (which I loved)...also made 'JFK' and 'World Trade Center' (which I found plodding, and vacant).
Who cares who the director or studio is aiming at audience-wise, whether it be 'W.' or 'Beverly Hills Chihuahua'? If the movie is coherent, well made and successfully tells a story that most people enjoy...I consider that the goal....NOT pleasing a specific demographic or crowd.
I admire Stone's restraint in the handling of Bush's well documented buffoonery. I would have liked nothing more than for Stone to rip Dubya to shreds on his way out of the Oval Office...a stiff kick in the ass as he departs, leaving a world of shit for the next president to have on his plate when he steps in (no matter who wins, Obama or McCain, they BOTH lose).
Nobody asked who 'Walk The Line' was made for...Nobody asked who the dozen's of 'Elvis' bio films...or who 'Monster' was made for...They simply try to faithfully depict what drove Johnny Cash, Aileen Wournos and now George W. Bush to become the person that they turned out to be.
Take out the politics...it's just another bio pic...done by a guy who usually has an 'agenda'...but this time he checked his 'agenda' at the door, that's all.
Besides...makin fun of Bush at this point?...It's like kickin a dead horse. I applaud Stone for taking the non-redundant route. -
Let's see what your mindless brand of socialism can do to "save" the country. Seriously, do your worst.
To clarify, I think Christianity is a crock of shit, but I have nothing against people who believe in it. They believe in fairy tales which helped guide Western Civilization until more rational times. You believe in fairy tales which helped sink great nations into brutality and poverty. Fucktard. hehe -
He laid the groundwork that turd blossomed into the George W. Bush regime. You know.
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I am a Conservative who can't stand Bush because I think he is too liberal among other things. I know that is going to make some liberal's heads explode but there it is. I honestly think that everyone in the country right or left is tired of hearing about the Bush's. I can't imagine anyone who would shell ten dollars to hear more. Maybe some liberals who think this is going to be a great smear job, but thats about it.
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When he delivered that BS presentation to the U.N. in advance of the Iraq invasion. He's the very definition of a sell-out.
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And it is exactly that kind of thinking that has destroyed the party. Reagan worked with Christian conservatives to PROTECT the rights of worship in accordance with the traditional philosophy of this party - not to proselytize. One can only hear his party and religion invoked by tyrants working to their own ends so many times before he has to speak out.
Every time Dobson speaks about how many Christian Republican voters there are, he is speaking about guys like me. And then he pretends that he speaks for me. I didn't say evil - that was your word. But I will say self-serving and call him and his ilk a blight on this party.
I understand that it would be easier for tools and buffoons such as yourself to believe that only a liberal could pretend to be a disenfranchised republican - because you cannot fathom why we would be upset. You cannot fathom it because you do not understand it. And that's why the first people I pray for every night are the ones who do ill in my name. People like yourself, Slugbat. -
... so it's no surprise that he rolled over when he made a movie about one of the perps.
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...that this was a good review. How often have I deluded myself with regards to Bush...
Only now, at the end, do I realize just how many of the things that he promised didn't get followed through on... -
Do you say "Jesus is a piece of shit" in front of a Catholic? Do you say "Muhammad is a douchebag" in front of a Muslim? Do you say "David is a motherfucker" in front of a Jew?
You must realize that what you said is considered blasphemy to several sects of Conservatives. -
Damn those insufferable top-level domains, with their liberal bias.
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Not in My Name, Slugbat! That's just another bankrupt leftist slogan; shit doesn't mean anything.
Massa, it's time you come out of the closet as a Moveon.org editor. Like another poster said, your worldview is colored in exactly the same shades as these frothing liberals on the boards. You criticize Bush not mainly on substantive conservative terms (esp immigration), but on Katie Couric's latest "unbiased" talking points.
In fact, your claim to "traditional conservatism" weighs approx 234 Courics. -
It's hilarious that you criticize people and news sources as having a liberal bias, yet you are hardly the objective commentator here. And for the record, there's nothing biased about asking legitimate questions and revealing the idiocy of certain republicans.
It's like, if you look in a mirror, and you see a hideous person, do you blame the mirror?
And I love how you insult liberal comments by calling them "bankrupt". As if what you said has any worth... -
I am so far very interested in this flick, and the recent trickle of reviews that have come out make me even more enthralled. You ask who this movie is made for Massa? I think it is made for the people who want to see an entertaining biopic on a man who somehow achieved greatness despite having no real greatness within him. This is Forest Gump, only instead of running around the world and saving his Lt. he decides to take over the presidency and start a war. In other words, far less innocent and much more sobering. However, I so appreciate that Stone attempts to show a portrait of a man who couldn't possibly be the mustache twirling maniacal evil genius that some on the left paint him as, cause that would give him far too much credit. At the same time nobody can continue to pretend that his policies were good for this country, or the world, and so it is not a "pro-Bush" propoganda piece, simply cause it doesn't make him evil enough, it is simply what it is. Bush is who he is. He isn't as evil as some want to make him out to be, but remember the road to hell is paved in good intentions. To me this movie reminds me of Primary Colors, which I thoroughly enjoyed. That movie showed the foibles of Clinton while illuminating what made him so attractive. No president, even the strongest, are all good or all bad, only the moronic pundits, talk radio hosts, and web site blogs believe such nonsense. Bring on a dose of entertaining reality wrapped in a story of disaster, I think it sounds fascinating.
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When I said "achieved greatness" I meant to say, he achieved the presidency, I am in no way saying as a president he was great.
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It is long past time that the people of the United States stood up and said enough is enough. It is time to tear down both parties with the biggest wrecking ball we can find. I am so tired of people blaming everything on one party or one guy. Bush is going down in flames, but he isn't going alone. History will bear out that both parties sent us down this road and Pelosi, Dodd, and Reid (Who, along with Frank, are the most directly responsible for the economic problems) will have spots right next to Bush in the Hall of Shame. Line them up, Republican and Democrat and the result is the same. Politicians who care more about beating the other party than doing anything to help the people. You think Obama is going to be any different? He's just going to finish destroying what Bush and the Congress started. We the people have to stand up and say hell no to both.
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Massa, thanks for putting into elegant words something I've been espousing for a long while. I've always known for a long time that GWB was his own man and really wasn't a Republican. In the beginning, despite his glaring public ineptitude, it was something I sort of admired in him.I'll admit I was stupid enough to vote for the man in his second term (but really, John Kerry running this country?) because I'd liked that he had the convinction to follow through on his talk. Sadly, I was fooled like so many into a dismantling of his party and this country. (Though anyone who thinks the Bush admin is solely responsible for this economic mess we're in now is ridiculously deluding themselves about a defunct Democratic Congress and Bill Clinton's presidency.)
The interesting point you make, Massa, about the GOP's stance on things today is perhaps one I had failed to see clearly until you mentioned it. It's been in stark relief that the driving force of the Democrats for the past 30 years has been simply to disagree with Republicans and to try with all their might to get any Repub out of office. (Which was a big reason I wouldn't think to support Kerry at all in '04. Their whole platform was just about removing Bush from the office. Admittedly, in hindsight, that aspect would have been a good thing. But they didn't have any direction for this country and I'm not quite sure we'd be in a better space today.) I hadn't realized - except maybe in how McCain has changed so much from his 2000 run, as evidenced in the debates where he seems more content about dogging and disparaging Obama and the Dems then really offering a succinct message to get behind - that the GOP had basically sunk to the same thing.
Sure, bi-partisan politics, by its nature, is going to have fighting purely for party's sake. But now it's no longer clear that either party has the country's interest at heart and even wants to pretend that they have clear ideas of where they want to drive the car. Very interesting point of view, Massa. Thanks for sharing it. -
For either party it is all about winning and nothing else. They want power for power's sake, not to help any of the regular people.
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Fuck you make me sick to my stomach. You spew armchair quarterback weakness in your pathetic rant. Why the fuck would you want to see a movie that just takes jabs at a guys character for two fuck'n hours? Are you really that bored with your life? Would it make you feel better about your own fat ass as you sit and stuff your over sized mouth with popcorn? Stay out of politics. Regurgitating what years of smear campaigns crammed down your throat doesn't make you an expert on politics you drone.
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It's time to fire OUR government and reset.
And Pelosi is scarier than Bush, in my opinion. Don't even get me started on Barney Frank. -
Massawyrm has had a profound change of heart. He now knows he was voting for the wrong party all along. That is a beautiful thing to wake up and finally realize that the Republicans CAN NOT GOVERN and DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR WELL BEING AT ALL. They are the party of the wealthy, by the wealthy, and for the wealthy. Too bad it took plunging the country and the world into war, death, and abject economic ruin for the past 8 years to make the majority of americans wake the fuck up.
Make sure to get out there and vote for Obama. Its a new day America, time for hope, change, and progressive politics to once again restore America to the greatness Bush and the Republicans ruined. -
Ha, Ha, Ha! I knew there was one of you out there.
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"The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. How did it come to this?"
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Makes me wonder what some of you did before he was elected.
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I think that question indicates that, culturally, we've moved away from the idea that movies are supposed challenge us, to expand our imaginations, and to increase our understanding...now, in the post Emerich/Bruckheimer/De Bont/Bay era of film-making, movies are expected to reinforce our own prejudices, to tell us what we want to hear. We don't want movies that make us think, we want movies that make us think we're thinking ("American Beauty")...maybe it was always like that, but, if so, I doubt it was ever as encouraged as it is today (it's like we all now finally understand movies the way the hustlers and the advertisers told us to understand them)...I was going to avoid W. after seeing the trailers, which made it look like "Farenheit 9/11 part Deux", but after reading the description and a few reviews, I can't wait to see it. Directing a serious examination of the Bush presidency, in this climate, may be the gutsiest thing Oliver Stone's ever done.
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And good question, who is this movie for anyway?? I am definitely curious to see it but not in a hurry. Maybe sometime after January. Or maybe never, so I can convince myself it was all just a bad dream.
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He arrested thousands of Northerners who spoke out against him, confiscated all civilian arms, threw out habeas corpus, condoned the burning of civilian farms, and even deported a rival Congressman! He was with out a doubt the worst president we ever had, and Bush fits just finely with him.
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Oct 15, 2008 7:41:13 PM CDT
Why don't we let history decide the legacy of this administratio
by donnyunitas
It's very to say, in the heat of the moment, when things seem really, really awful, to say that this Presidency and the corresponding administration has been inept, unethical, and misleading. To make the assumption is fair, and I can't knock you for it. But only time will tell whether their policies were smart or not, regardless of what we think here and now, in the moment. If we regret our arrogance over the last 8 years, why perpetuate it in damning something that, for all intents and purposes, we are unable to predict?
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Nice! Smite his ass!
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Bush is a colossal failure. However, let's not call him a "conservative." His whole "compassionate conservative" schtick was a colossal expansion of government social programs. He had a decent tax policy but it wasn't that different than Clinton's. In fact, Clinton, for all his own policy flaws probably governed, at least after 1994, as more of a conservative than Bush.
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I meant I'm Massa politically in that I'm a Republican but I see Bush as a failure.
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This sounds like it's a degree removed from an HBO original film rather than something anybody will see in a theater. Not a bad thing, but not really something I'm going to pay ten dollars to watch on the bigscreen.
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(or a determined clone)
Observe the classic references to moveon.org, socialism and liberal fucktards.
And his unique mixture of deceit and spite. -
Probably at least since the 2004 election.
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DonnyUnitas: "Why don't we let history decide the legacy of this administration."
yes, why don't we...but look, it's like saying right after it sank, "let's let history decide how to view the sinking of the Titanic."yeah sure, historical perspective can change quite a bit over time, but the ship crashed, split in half, and sank, and hundreds of people froze to death or drown. it ain't gonna be FAVORABLE in the long run, yeah?the only question about Bush's position in history is if there is a consensus in 20 or 30 years that he is unequivocally the worst president in history, or if there is still debate. NO ONE is going to look favorably on him. the only question is the level of disgust and shame. -
The philosophies represented by GWB had been building steam for years before GWB became POTUS. Tom DeLay-ites, Christian terrorists (FRC, PTC, all televangelists, etc), big business, and others have been testing the waters and discovering that they can break the laws and no one fights back. Gaining power locally and poising themselves to come on the national stage. GWB merely provided a way for these movements to gain public acceptance and stop lurking. GWB was perhaps the catalyst for today's catastrophe, but not the source.
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Screened "W." last night and I think Massa is right on. This is a movie that doesn't really play to sides--strong liberals are going to be angry that it's not an SNL-style laff riot at the goofy president and ultra-conservatives are going to be made because they'll still feel that it's an attack. But that's why I enjoyed it so much and even feel that it's one of the year's best films. In 20 years, no one is going to return to this film for a political discussion. We're going to view it as a film, plain and simple. And by giving us a portrait that empathizes and humanizes Bush even as it states that he was in over his head, Stone has made a film that is not disposable but will be returned to in the future to see a truly fascinating story about a polarizing President. This may bomb at the box office, but I think film lovers are going to love it simply for being more than a political screed.
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We're all tired of the whining and bitching from the left. And sure enough, Obama will kick this old political hack's ass. It's all over by 2040 anyway. Everything until then is, to rob another analogy up there, polishing the brass on the Titanic.
Until that hellish date comes, let's tax the shit out of the rich, the smart and the wealthy for the short term benefit of the lazy and inept. Let the European-style socialization of America begin! -
It's as predictable as the crap I take after my morning coffee.
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I'm not going to say anything you said was a lie. What I will say is that the very notion that Lincoln could even be in the bottom half of a ranked list of presidents is both ignorant and completely absurd. That man is responsible for the birth of this country. Because though we may have had the same constitution and same government and same name, we were never truly united until after the Civil War, which was one due to the truly amazing leadership of Lincoln. Had Lincoln not been assassinated, the South wouldn't be the impoverished, racism-torn region it is now. Which is why, in my humble opinion, Andrew Jackson ranks up there as one of the worst presidents in history for fucking up Reconstruction. Along with LBJ for fucking up Vietnam, and doing not much else. And Millard Filmore for being a racist, power hungry warmonger with a silly name. That son of a bitch should burn in hell.
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Bravo. Couldn't agree more. I'm not a fan of Bush, but I don't think its fair to say right now that its the worst Presidency we've ever had, because we honestly, believe it or not, have still not seen the long-term effects of it. Take, say, Woodrow Wilson for example. If it were 1921 today, we could easily say the following about Wilson: He lied to us about a war we had nothing to do with, dragged us into it and too many of our young men killed in the process. Not to mention killing many innocent foreigners. And for what? Now we have nothing to do with Europe. We left Germany with the bag and high-tailed it out of there, leaving the rest of Europe with no money because they were expecting a Germany with no money to cover their war costs. He also completely blew his chance at an unprecedented time of international unity by not reaching across party lines and including Republicans in the process. Now jump forward 15 years. Hitler has taken control of Germany, essentially, due to the Treaty of Versailles. He's rebuilt Germany from its ashes on a dangerous ideology that emphasizes Deutschland uber alles. And really, this is all Wilson's fault, for, again, allowing the rest of the world to slip into vast economic depression. Now, neary 100 years later, we can look at Wilson as a man who faced difficult times and likely did his best based on his convictions, and in fact had wonderful ideas that were never properly executed. Again, I'm not saying Bush IS this kind of man, but I'm also not saying he definitely isn't. Because, as Donny Unitas pointed out, only time will really tell.
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Now hit my Web site fools!
WeWillMissBush.Wordpress.com
Oh and D@MN you Michael Bay.
And Stone's gotta eat. Too soon. You know the drill. -
I think in another hundred years or so, Hitler will be looked at about the same way we now look at Napoleon: just a douche who ended up losing due in no small part to a failed strategy against the Russians and the hard-headedness of the British (the only difference is the masterful invasion of Europe by Eisenhower and the Allied blitzkrieg led by Patton). Its funny, because in the late 19th century, Napoleon was often used as an associative term for a evil megalomaniac, the same way Hitler is today.
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Forget politics. Just before debuting JFK, Stone drew a guest spot on NIGHTLINE. And then he launched into a William Castle routine, firing-off a string of gimmicks. "The FBI is after me, Ted! There was an attempt on my life. There are people who don't want this film to be seen by the public." Koppel, desperate to beef-up the interview, appeared to buy it (it was pretty pathetic journalism, like a couple of guys swapping Ed Wood dialogue). When the extravagant ALEXANDER bombed, Stone blamed the failure on "a homophobic American public." Remember, this is the cat who had written crap like THE HAND and SEIZURE (talk about Ed Wood). As for the current candidates, meh. I'm not impassioned by Obama (his censorship tactics scare the shit out of me). Too bad that Nancy Pelosi didn't run for presidential office (in lieu of an opportunist like Hillary Clinton). By the way, check-out FACE IN THE CROWD, a criminally underrated fim (should be reissued as THE BILL CLINTON STORY); Andy Griffith delivers a one of the best performances ever applied to film (yeah, Andy Griffith. The film died because he plays--with maximum conviction--a corrupt hayseed who effectively manipulates the media. A pity he slid into a sitcom). As for "W", I'll catch it on cable in January.
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Simulate my pocket, I need to pay down my credit card lol.
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I don't know how anyone can make a film about W that ends before Hurricane Katrina strikes. I try and apply Hanlon's Razor to the Bush administration's inaction and I don't know that stupidity begins to cover it. I think we're left with the other option.
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that's all I got
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Oct 15, 2008 11:53:05 PM CDT
SERIOUSLY, MASSAWYRM, you're a CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN REPUBLICAN
by copontheedge
I guess I shouldn't assume. Long haired, movie geek, backwards ball cap, encourages all to smoke up (cigs or doobies? I vote doobies, considering he has more than a passing resemblance to Jay of Silent Bob fame), crass, foul-mouthed...and yet prays every night to both Jesus and Reagan? In fact, he's so devout he even prays for his enemies! Man, I guess you just can't peg anyone anymore. (In case you're wondering if this is sarcastic, I can't really decide myself since I'm so flummoxed right now with this revelation)
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I just had to say that before I Indulge in Talkbacks. Pray for me.
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I hate when Republicans try to pull that. Everyone knows the Republican party back then wa nothing like it is today. Republicans were the liberals in Lincoln's day, & is what today's Democratic party evolved from.
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fuck me. I don't want to read his shit anymore. all i will see is Nixon and his evil orders of fucking up south america.
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He has more high-tech equipment at his disposal, but his films are usually very interesting train wrecks! I love the ol' coke snorting freak!
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You know how it is - I'm a mystery, wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a douchebag...
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When most of us invoke that (as I did above) it is not to compare ourselves to their greatness, but to hold them as idealogical examples to live up to.
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and do you have the slightest clue what "European style socialization" means? I bet you don't. But answer me this, AnimalStructure in Disguise- what is it about Europe (which you've clearly never been to) that scares you so much? is it that most of the continent "don't speak 'merican", not even England? Get a passport, broaden you're horizons beyond whatever one horse town in the ass end of nowhere you live in, do some travelling, read a book that isn't entitled "The Old Testament", and try to experience something beyond your ever decreasing circle of negativity and bigotry.
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at least he is green.
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They figured out how to hate all by themselves, please bring that up if you're going to stick Jesus into the conversation. Jesus said to love each other, not to hate the Gentiles or the Jews or the "liberals" or hell even the sinners (since we all are, even the Ned Flanders of the world).
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Because the previous administration was too busy cheating on his wife to notice that the failed WTC bombings of 1993 might have led to something bigger. Because Slick Willie just played his saxophone, wanting to be liked, when he could've been doing something to help this country. Thus, I'm voting for McCain because I don't want Clinton Lite in the white house.
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is rather worrying...
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I work with a bunch of angry republicans.
Weirdest moment...
One guy brought up Bill Ayers. IMMEDEDIATLY the other 3 guys perked up and said " Yeah, what about Ayers?"
In unison.
Freaky -
...yeah, that's just the ignorant and naive attitude our leaders have counted on throughout all history. Everything is just a big fuck up. Iraq, the economy, 9/11, the Patriot Act, Abu Ghraib, etc... just a big misunderstanding between a bunch of well-intentioned public servants. Dear Lord, the founders of this country would be shocked.
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I'm so sick of people portraying Powell as some poor saintly man who was forced to do things by Bush and Cheney. Give the UN a bunch of bullshit about Iraq? Well, he just had to do it. His boss made him. That poor little guy had no choice... The man was a general in the Army. The head of the joint chiefs! If he was being forced to do stuff he hated, why didn't he resign? Why didn't he refuse?Personally, I respect Powell and actually like him. Hell, I probably would've voted for him. But I hate that he seems to get a pass for any of the crap that happened, while everyone else in the administration are evil and sinister.
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...where Cromwell looks lovingly
down at James Brolin, whispering...
.."That'll do, pig...that'll do." -
Think about it..I'm not talking evil like our bullshit interpretations of it, evil cause you don't take communion or evil cause you gassed people with poison-based munitions..I'm talking 666 evil, "palling around with Baelzebub" evil..."Fru-eets" of the "De-veel" evil? As in before he goes to sleep at night he kneels on an altar of infant skulls while totally naked and carving a large symbol of some type directly into the flesh of his chest as he sacrifices teenage virgins to the dark powers between dimensions. Candles, shadowy figures in hooded robes, a rumbling basso-drone coming from under the WH floorboards. And his wife wouldn't even be a human being but a demon made flesh, twisted into the form of the first lady. Using her beguiling charms to thwart the forces of good in all of us. How awesome would those foreign diplomat meetings go?If we had an actual devil-worshiper, someone charged in the cells with actual, tangible EVIL, for president, and those foreign leaders knew it, who do you think would fuck with us? No one! That's who!!! We might not simply invade your country or give you support...instead we'd devour the souls of your every citizen. And you got what...bullets? HAHAH!
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Love the description of the Republican Party
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I have been torn about going to see this movie. To me it is too soon by far to accurately and justly look at this administration as the sum of all evil (liberal viewpoint) or flawed but good (conservative viewpoint. We have to be able to see the results of this as time passes to be able to both appreciate its positives and negatives. All of you that bash or praise the man that is George W. need to try and hold back judgement til you gain perspective. Perspective changes from when you are in the midst of something to when you look back on it.
I don't hate George and yet I don't agree with his decisions. I have agreed with some directions he took based upon the information available just as he must have. At the same time he has not been the cause, mearly the catalyst of such division between different political ideologies that many seem to blame him anyway. You don't blame a person for a societal issue as no one person can ever be the cause.
It is partly the fault of each of those that don't just follow a party but become almost a fanatic about it. Where reason never enters the equation and where because you think you are right the other side must be wrong at all costs. We are fighting what could almost be considered a religious war here but with political philosophies instead of deities. We are starting to treat our politics with some of the worse elements of faith, and that is scarry. It was one thing when it was just a few hundred extremists on each end of the equation, but more and more it seems to be "infecting" the moderates on both sides.
It is no longer not important enought to just believe that your party's ideals are the best plan for the future of the US, it is now more that the other side is so deluded that it is up to us to save them from themselves.
Burn me if you will, but I did vote for Bush both times. All I ask those of you that say you regret it is that who were your other choices? Gore? Kerry? Are you going to honestly say they were by far better and that there is no way at all that things could have happened to them the same way and maybe been worse with them there? Not to say they couldn't have been better, but if you are honest with yourself they too were flawed and a large portion of this country believed so as well.
I don't like McCain. But then I don't like Obama. More and more our choices are not who do we want, but who do we think will not hurt us the most. Right now that has me leaning McCain. May be wrong, but I hope not. And that's all we can do. So go and vote and I hope that each of you can finally start to calm down and regain rational civil talk again once this is over. Because how long can we continue to do this before serious harm comes from our actions. -
Yeah, screw all our closest allies for caring about their citizens more than keeping taxes low for rich folks! Working healthcare, childcare garunteed, 32 hour work weeks, plenty of vacation time every year, functioning infrastructure, all while maintaining strong economies (look at Scandinavia and Germany!), heck when they measure the happiness of citizens Denmark is no. 1 (followed by Switzerland, Austria, Iceland, Finland... USA! USA! WE'RE NUMBER 17! WE'RE NUMBER 17!) sounds terrible. The EU average tax rate is 14% higher than ours (of course, they don't have to pay thousands of dollars per year for health insurance either). I'll go back to working like a dog for minimal benefits, while my nation disintegrates around me, so the upper 10% can live like fuedal kings. AWESOME!
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Obama isn't a socialist, so we aren't going to see any socialism here, just more pandering to corporate interests.
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Is on the Supreme Court and in the lower federal courts. Thats actually the most lasting impact any president will have on the country. And in that, Bush is more conservative than any republican president in the last 50 years.
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It was made and shown NOW because there is an election in a few weeks and they want to sour any impressionable independent from voting for Republicans. Duh. Just as NBC airs a segment "So what if Obama is a Muslim?" So what? So, that would mean he lied about his religious affiliation.
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Powell DID resign. Remember? The generally accepted view of Bush's cabinet -- independently corroborated by insider accounts and reporters -- is that Cheney and Rumsfeld were the Iraq masterminds, Rice went along with them, and Powell disagreed with them behind closed doors but publicly held up a united front. I can't find the quote, but I remember reading that after he resigned, he called his presentation to the U.N. the low point of his political life.
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Congratulations, you managed to sneak the old "Obama might be a Muslim" fearmongering back into the conversation. And FYI, the movie was released now because the distribution company knows that it has a better chance of doing business while Bush is still in office. Everybody who's watched it has said it will have zero effect on election opinions. It's not about politics, it's about money. Duh.
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Are you telling me you don't like having a shitty amount of vacation time?Strange.
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Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from evil.
It's like in the movies, aside from Darth Macchio's cartoon fantasies. The villain never thinks he's the villain. He thinks he has good reasons for everything he does. Sure he tortures, murders, lies, and steals. Sure, his actions benefit no one but himself and his friends, but hey as far as he's concerned he's following a logical justified course of action. You can't distinguish between a person's motives and what he actually does. The road to hell is paved with shit. -
Pot and kettle. Are you 'conservatives' purposefully hypocritical, or do you just not know what the word means? I am always boggled that with the shape the nation is now in after 8 years of Bush, you guys still come running to yell conspiracy and treason any time anyone criticizes Dubya. I mean, really - bridges are collapsing from lack of infrastructure maintenance while we squander billions on avoidable economic collapse brought about by the president's free-market voodoo ideology and blowing up poor people who you would never know and who posed no threat, after Bush is shown to be a liar time and again, with our military tied down and shredded beyond the ability to face any real threat to this country, after he has used his fecal-touch on everything this nation stands for... ...And it's all some "Liberal" conspiracy from their vast and powerfull media? After that same media has let Dubya off the hook time and again, and lobbed softballs when they should have been packing heat, you continue to insist that he's a great president that for some reason 73% of Americans think is doing a horrible job. What are you people smoking? Excuse me, huffing? Don't you ever take a moment and do some fact checking just to make sure you're not full of shit, as everyone outside of your pod-person community keeps trying to show you? YOU HAVE NONE OF THE ANSWERS, YOUR WORLDVIEW IS BANKRUPT AND CRUMBLING, THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES. So instead of the same tired lies and misdirection, the same worn-out "Socialism is the boogeyman" schtick you inherited from your parents, how about showing us why Bush shouldn't be universally hated and derided?
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My favorite line on a protest sign was "Would somebody give this guy a blowjob so we can impeach him already?!?!"
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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the problem with it is that there isn't a lifeform discovered (outside of Coughlin's Laws, Chrism and a few others) that would willingly drop to their knees and suck his cock. And even Bush has some standards.
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In hell. Piece of filth disowns his own flesh and blood, and his sainted (by conservatives) grandfather declares the child "predeceased" in his will. Wonderful way to treat a little boy who'd like to know who his daddy is. Love those family values.
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No joke, you are quite possibly the dumbest motherfucker I've seen on these boards in some time, and that's no small achievement. Enjoy that precious and infallible ideology of yours, and your absurdist conspiracy theories.
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1. I now believe the only point of the Presidency is the appointment of Supreme Court judges. The court is more powerful than either branch.
2. Who feels worse; my Dad for voting for Nixon twice or me for voting for Bush? Ye gods, it's got to be me. I will never get over this one.
I wish I had 'thrown away' my vote to some 3rd party - like I'll do this year. Clean conscience and all that. Impotent and dissatisfied, politically. Who's with me? -
Oct 16, 2008 12:58:13 PM CDT
2040...is that when the Cubs will win the World Series?
by just pillow talk
Hmm...if it's the Europeans fault...do the Cubbies have a French centerfielder at that time?
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The same Harry Knowles who holds an irrational and neurotic hatred for the man called 'W' upon whom HK projects all blame for all evil in the world/universe.That's the truest statement in this TB.
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Your ranting against Republicans who despire Bush and his approach to Conservatism clearly shows you share his lack of mental strength. I too am a disenfranchised Republican who has despised the death of Reagan Republicanism and the unholy afterbirth that is neo-conservatism. Let me provide examples you whiney little bitch: Reagan protected the Constitution...Bush had Ashcroft chew it apart with the Patriot Act. Reagan upheld the Geneva Convention....Bush signed an executive order allowing torture. Reagan believed in cutting spending and restoring state's rights....Bush blew our national debt by 3.5 trillion (I'm not crediting the rest of the 10.5 to him...Clinton and Greenspan own a ton of it too). Reagan believed in a strong national defense that utilized strong alliances...Bush began a 'go-it-alone' approach that has lowered our credibility in the world. Reagan believed in the tenants of what's become known as the Powell Doctine (Have a pretext for war, go in with overhwleming force, and have an exit strategy)...Bush had a false pretext for war, he sent us in without sufficient troops (even McCain agrees) and we had ZERO exit strategy. Need I go on? Or are you done spewing your ignorant neo-con bile while sitting on the memory of true Republicans? Douche.
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I bought the hype on Obama, I certainly supported the guy (especially as an alternative to Hillary Clinton). I'm a Democrat and thought this guy was a shoo-in. But I'm now in Ralph Nader's camp. Obama recently fumed, "If the FOX network supported me, I'd be up another 3-4 points." Now, let's face it, every other network has been crawling up this guy's ass. NBC has nearly canonized Obama, other networks have circumvented tough questions. My party notwithstanding, the network adoration is pretty condescending. Hence, Obama's preening, egocentric boo-hooing does not paint a flattering picture. If your feelings are hurt, switch to CNN (the hosts pretty much dance with a life-size, cardboard Obama cut-out). Plus, in last night's debate, McCain put Obama on the defensive (painful). Hence, this election is just another "lesser of two evils". I'm not going to slander Republicans or Democrats, I'm not searching for a scapegoat. Just a better candidate. Apparently, plenty of former Obama supporters are equally pissed. If only Pelosi had been a candidate--she would have nailed the presidency.
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Greeeaaat idea.........
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at a second run theater. The day after Obama wins the election when our long national nightmare will finally almost be at an end.
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is a masterful filmmaker. That's the main reason I'm seeing this film.
But I have one question for republicans.
Why are you so against taxing the rich to help pay for those less fortunate? Some may take advantage of handouts, but surely there are those who need help, no?
I simply cannot understand this. -
As a lifelong conservative, I find it impossible to jive Massawyrm's claim to the same while spewing the most mundane, common, banal talking points of the left. To say that the Bush Administration is the "single most disastrous administration in modern history" is asinine. It ignores Hoover (restrictionist policies directly leading to the depression; Bush is freeing up liquidity to avert the same); Lyndon Johnson (the disastrous Vietnam war and Great Society Ponzi schemes that are still fucking us up); and Carter (a well meaning ponce who oversaw a nightmare that had my parents convinced the end times were at hand), among others. Bush has had one of the most difficult presidencies in history to be sure: the 9/11 attacks (remember those?) were perpetrated only 9 months after he was sworn in, and much of the subsequent recession and war was a direct result of that (don't forget most democrats voted for the now successful Iraq war). In the aftermath, most americans, including myself, experienced unprecedented prosperity. In 2003 and 2005, REPUBLICANS attempted to restrain Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and were opposed at every turn by Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, Barney Frank, and others, who thought it was a basic right that people be allowed to obtain loans for houses they could not afford. The current economic crisis is a direct result of those two GSE's unfettered corruption. All this is not to discount the wasted opportunity the republicans had. I am very disappointed in George Bush. But not because he is the charicatured buffoon that Stone seems to think he is. Rather, it is because in the waning days of his administration he has tacked inexorably to the left, pandering to the worst politicians in this country. Searching for a legacy? I don't know. I changed my registration from Republican to Unaffiliated this year, but not because I'm voting for the would-be pretender to the throne, Obama. Rather because true conservatives shouldn't stand for the pansy-ass BS that the Republican party has become. Of course, Stone's movie doesn't do any of that. Instead, he's made a movie for Fidel Castro and his brother, so that they can laugh at the monkey in the white house running the greatest country on earth. Oliver Stone is a washed up hack, and he should just stop. Stop making movies, Oliver. BTW, I wonder what his Yale grades were???
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be whining, coz their previous hero is dead in the water, their current one is on the slide and does nothing but makes bad choices...
and
brobdingnag
you ARE that crap after the coffee -
That if this movie were truly meant to be written, shot AND released under the pretense of its being an unbiased depiction of the man, and remaining a-political, it should have been intentionally put off until after election day. I'd say the same for An American Carol, but that film's not really making any bones about which side its taking.
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No one wants McCain. He stands for nothing. He's a milquetoast politician with his finger in the wind, like Bush in a lot of ways. His legislation that he has championed has been disastrous to our core principles (McCain-Feingold). He represents no check against the expansion of government, no check on immigration, no reform. He's utterly pointless in every way, like a Michael Bay movie.
What do you people have against the "rich?" Who pays your salaries? Government? Taxing the rich just cannabilizes the economy in the long run...shit's basic. You think these EEEVIL rich peoples will give up their yachts to be able to hire another couple IT guys (56% of AICN readership)?
Alas, your way will win this election, so let's see what you guys got. All of our problems will be solved by taxing successful people! -
The rich are cannibalizing us. The spending power for everone except the top 10 percent have declined in the last 10 years. My children will be worse off than me, and so forth, all because we have taken supply side WAY to far. Maybe we shouldn't over tax them, but they should pay their share. Taxing them at a lower rate and taxing capital gains at 15% is stupid. Cutting their taxes way back helped inflate the deficit and damaged the dollar, and restoring those taxes will not destroy the rich. Over-concentrating wealth damages the economy, because it lowers the spending power of the middle class, and they drive the consumer econmy. Shit's basic. Trickle down economics doesn't work, because the rich don't trickle enough down, they concentrate wealth in their bank accounts. Taxes were much higher for the rich back in America's golden years in the 50's and 60's, and we didn't cannabalize the economy, it worked far better and americans were far more prosperous. Now I know this is contrary to the opinions that Rush Limbaugh (rich) and Sean Hannity (also rich) parroted to you, and that you claimed as your own because, well, thinking is hard for some people. But when rich people tell you that giving them your money is good for you, and you believe them, then you are gullible. You know what else is great for the economy? Sending me all of your disposable income. I promise I'll create jobs (mainly in the prostitution industry), so at least your mother will be employed so she can keep a roof over your head.
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I also strongly doubt life will be too hard for the wealthy under Obama.
The whole idea that I should be greatfull to the rich for creating jobs is retarded. Without labor, there is no economy, and therefore no rich people. How rich would Bill Gates be if all of his employees quit? Besides, a corporation pays my salary. And you know what else? In Finland, people have jobs. Even in France, people have jobs. There are even rich people in those socialist countries, believe it or not. I find it offensive to think that I should pay more taxes because if richie rich doesn't get his yacht then he's not going to employ anyone. Rich people aren't neccessarily evil (any more than anyone is in this world), but they are greedy. And, Mr. Christian conservative, what did Jesus say about the Rich? How about taking care of the Poor? But then again, you hypocrites only keep the parts of the bible that stroke your ego by telling you how much better and more righteous you are. -
I've been watching Real Time with Bill Maher clips on Youtube (yeah, go ahead, call me a liberal wing nut), and apaparently on the Oct. 3rd episode on his show, an interesting point is brought up. A raise in taxes isn't so bad in a balanced and responsible government, because those taxes will pay for things like education, health care, and so on. Bill said something like, if nobody's taxed, then the cops are going to look for reasons to ticket your car, impound your car, give tickets for jay walking, etc. to earn their money.
I don't know how accurate that is, but it does provide food for thought. If nobody was taxed and we didn't have to fill out our 1040s in late winter, how would our social and political climate change?
As a side note--I have to get this out there--there's a couple misconceptions about Ayers. He was a radical hippie activist who was involved in protests which included explosive devices. I've yet to hear that anybody was even hurt in these demonstrations. And there's a big difference between being an activist and a terrorist. To me, anyway. -
face it, man, the Bush brainwashing just hasn't worn off you yet. Even my dad, a HUGE supporter of Bush, said he blames Bush for a few things wrong with the coutry right now. For my dad to say Bush has done anything wrong... well, it's a day I didn't think I'd live to see.
Face it... even the conservatives are disenfranchised with Bush. Why else is Obama campaigning against Bush rather than McCain? The same jack-off's that were upset over Billy Clinton having his cock in Monica's mouth and wanted 'change' in 2000 are now pissed off with real issues... such as war and economy... and are voting for Dems this time around. Funny thing about people that want 'change'... it's usually their bad decision that caused a need for change in the first place.
I guess I'm an anomoly in this election... I don't see either guy as the lesser of 2 evils many claim it feels like in voting for them. I see either guy as a step up from the fucktard in the Oval Office now. Of course, I'm from Arizona and have voted for McCain many times for the Senate. The man is what he says in so much as doing the will of the people rather than the party. Has he had to make concessions? Sure, what politician hasn't? One of his big things had been campaign finance reform (against the will of his party) but he still got it passed even if it wasn't as restrictive as he originally proposed.
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