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Mr. Beaks Goes To Lunch With Marion Ravenwood!!!

This is a long, entertaining interview, so I won't bore you with a protracted introduction. Basically, a small group of online journalists were offered the chance to have lunch with Karen Allen a few weeks ago, and I had no choice but to accept. An hour-plus with Marion Ravenwood? Jenny Hayden? Boone's girlfriend, Katy? ("I'm in love with a retard." "Is he bigger than me?") Um, yeah, I'm in. The occasion for this little get-together at the Paramount dining room was the looming DVD/Blu-ray release of INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL - which, it so happens, is out today! I don't know how involved the disc's special features are, but I'll gladly put our interview with Ms. Allen up against whatever Laurent Bouzereau slapped together. You get a bunch of geeks in the same room with Marion Ravenwood for an hour, and there's not a topic that's going to get skipped. Except for CRUISING. I just couldn't finesse it. Sorry. Going in, I had a feeling Ms. Allen would be a perfectly pleasant interview, but I couldn't have predicted that she'd end up being one of the nicest people I've ever met in this racket. It's always nice when your icons don't let you down. Here's Marion...

What kind of differences have you seen with the reception to the new film and the first film?

Karen Allen: It seems to me that the reception has been incredible for this film. I get a specific point of view on it - mostly people coming up to me and telling me how much they loved the film. In Japan, they were just so excited about the opening of the film. The Cannes Film Festival was just amazing for us. Cannes is an interesting place to open a film, because it can be disastrous. I mean, if they don't like a film, they don't have any problem letting you know. Films have been booed there and all kinds of things. A film like CRYSTAL SKULL is not necessarily a Cannes type of film, so you don't really know what's going to happen, but they just loved it. It was like a four-minute standing ovation. Steven had tears in his eyes. It was a lovely experience. And I hadn't seen it with an audience at all. The first time I had seen it... it was Shia and I at Paramount. We were just going in to see a screening before we went over to Cannes so we weren't seeing it for the first time in front of 3,200 people, which can be a little traumatic. (Laughs)

I think almost everyone who wrote about the film talked about what a welcome return it was not just for Marion, but for you. How did that feel?

Allen: It felt fantastic! I've had so many people who've come up to me and said, "When you came up on the screen, everybody in the theater applauded." It's just so sweet, really. It makes me feel very touched and very moved that somehow that character has somehow stayed in those people's consciousness, and that they were so happy to have me and her come back into the story. What could be better than to get that kind of enthusiastic response?

Several of the films that you've done have had quite a life afterwards. Not just Indy, but ANIMAL HOUSE and STARMAN.

Allen: STARMAN is just one of those ones that just hangs in there. And SCROOGED. And even this funny film where I just play this little part in it, THE SANDLOT. I still have little kids who constantly come up to me and go, "Oh my God. You're the mom SANDLOT!" (Laughs)

Was [INDY 4] one of those circumstances where you said, if this group of people ever comes back, I'll do another one? Or were you more particular about how you returned?

Allen: You know, I don't even know how to answer that question, because it's sort of like all of the above. To have an opportunity to work with Steven and Harrison and George Lucas and Katherine Kennedy and Frank Marshall again was just wonderful. As these rumors kind of persisted over the years, there kept being little hints that would be dropped, and they were trying to do another film and they wanted my character to come back into the story, I'd hear that and then I wouldn't hear anything for a long time. At one point, when they released the four-DVD package of the films, which I think was four or five years ago, the way they decided to do it was to get myself, Kate Capshaw and Allison Doody together out here in L.A. and do it as the women of the Indiana Jones series were going to promote the DVD's. Frank was there and Harrison stopped by, and we were kidding with them, like, "Is there going to be another one, and, if so, who's going to be in it?" Frank was like, "I'm not saying anything." So I never really knew what their plans were or how it would turn out. I think when Steven called me to tell me that they had written me into [the script], and that it was not just a cameo, but they had really written me a major role in the story, I think my first feeling was just like, "I'm there!" You know... with Steven, George and Harrison, you never worry that it's not going to be good. You know it's going to be good. They spent how many years trying to get a script that they were all happy with? Steven sounded very very happy about the outcome of the script when I talked to him, so I knew it would be a wonderful script. But I think there's that thing where you feel a little self-protective of your character, so there's a bit of trepidation when you read it, like, "What if I read it and I don't like what they've done with my character?" (Laughs) There was a little bit of a concern that I was going to be disappointed, or that I might not like the decisions they had made for where she goes from there. But when I sat down to read the script, all of that just went away. From the moment she came into the story, and when I saw where it was going and what they had done, I was just so knocked out by it. And then when we got to the end of the story, and I saw that they had Indy and Marion getting married, I was crying. I was really just so touched. I was like, "This is very special. They've really decided to bring these characters together and allow them to fall in love with each other."

At what point did you find out that Shia was involved?

Allen: Steven told me that he wanted Shia to do it, and I didn't know who Shia was. I had never heard of him. So I went Netflix-ing around, and got some films so I could see his performances. And I was just knocked out by him. I mean, what a fantastic young actor. And Steven told me he was trying to get Cate Blanchett to play the role of the villainess. He wasn't sure that she could do it, but that was who he really wanted at the time. And he had decided indefinitely on John Hurt at that point, but Ray Winstone wasn't involved yet. He wasn't sure who he wanted to play that role.

There's been talk that there was supposed to be more Marion in the movie. Is that true?

Allen: No, I think every single moment that was written, I'm there.

Do you know if there will be any deleted scenes on the DVD?

Allen: I don't. But I honestly can't tell you what scenes would've been deleted? I'd have to go back and read the script. I think the thing with the ants was a much longer sequence. That got sort of [cut] down. Other than that, I don't remember too many things that disappeared.

Working with Steve and George and Harrison, in what ways were they the same guys that you had worked with on the first film, and in what ways had they evolved over the years?

Allen: To me, it just seemed like everybody was much more relaxed and having a good time. I think when we were doing the first one, and maybe this was just more my perspective, but it just seemed like everybody was under a lot more pressure. We were all away from home [on RAIDERS], so, this time, Steven really made a decision that he didn't want to go overseas. He wanted to stay and be with his family, so the bulk of the film was going to be shot in Los Angeles. I think it had been such a long time coming, and they had been working so hard at getting a script that they liked, and... it just seemed like one of those projects that, when it was finally cleared, that we were going to all come back together and do it. From the first day, when I flew out here to do some camera tests... that was the first time I met Shia, Harrison was there, George was there, Kathleen Kennedy and Frank were there... and there was just this feeling that everybody was so excited that we were going to do the film. With RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, because it was kind of an unknown, and it was just this thing that... nobody really had a sense of what it was yet - I know I didn't. My joke is that I always thought we were making a kind of CASABLANCA. (Laughs) I had a whole different film in my head.

There were famously many drafts of [INDY 4] before it headed into production. At what point did you come in? Did you get involved with this script that we see on screen? Were there previous versions of the story that might have been a little different?

Allen: That's a good question, and I don't even know how to answer it. I read a version of it in Steven's apartment, when he first had me come into New York to sit and read it. As I'm sure you all know, they're very secretive about these scripts. They were secretive about the RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK script; I mean, a courier came and brought that script to me up in Northern California where I was shooting something. He sat in the hotel room while I was reading and then took the script back. (Laughs) [With INDY 4], I went to Steven's apartment, and I read the script. Then Steven arrived, and then David Koepp arrived, and I got to meet him. But then I had to leave without a script. There were some things that changed between my reading that script in his apartment and two or three months later when I got the new script. But what they were, I couldn't tell you; it was like, I read it once, and then two or three months went by, so I never had anything to compare it to when I got the final script. I'm thinking that once Cate Blanchett said yes to that role that... between the two versions I read, that role grew quite a bit; it got fleshed out a lot because I think Steven was so happy that she was going to do the role. I just don't remember it being as prominent, but, you know, it may have been. That script sort of remains like this vague abstract in my mind.

When someone gives you a script and takes it back, do you ever feel like, "No, I need this script so I can reflect on it"?

Allen: That's just the way [Spielberg] does things. I'm sure he'd be willing to let you read it a few times, but he didn't want to let it out of his sight. (Laughs)

What's happened with your career in the wake of this movie? Has Hollywood all of a sudden been like, "Get me Karen Allen?"

Allen: I'm reading lots of scripts now. We're in this sort of funny little holding pattern with this looming SAG strike that isn't happening but is kind of keeping films from moving forward to the extent that they might be otherwise. But there are a couple of things that I've been interested in that have been kind of waiting to be greenlit, so those are things I don't know about. I think there are going to be other roles out there for me to do. I got to a point where there was just so little that I was being offered or being given to read that I liked, probably seven or eight years ago. I was also raising my son, so I couldn't just go to Thailand for three-and-a-half months at the drop of a hat. I would get a call, and they would say, "You're being offered this role. You have to be in Thailand in four days." My son would be in the middle of 8th grade or something. I was a single parent, so I couldn't pull him out of school for three-and-a-half months to go to Thailand and have him sit in a hotel room. I had a lot of those kinds of decisions I had to struggle with and make - and I have to say, also, there were very very few things that I would've been so excited to do that I would've tried to solve those problems. Most of the time it was very easy to say, "No, thank you." Television projects haven't interested me so much because oftentimes you have to relocate; you have to live in Los Angeles or you have to live in Vancouver or you have to live in Toronto. You have to live somewhere a good chunk of the year, a good seven or eight months out of the year, and I just haven't been willing to do that. So I just shifted my focus to a life that I thought was going to be in support of my son getting through school and finishing his primary education and me finishing my primary parenting duties. And that turned out to be starting a design company and creating a really interesting creative life for myself that didn't really involve the film industry. I think I was always open to something if it came my way and was something I really wanted to do and I could figure out how to do it on a practical level. Luckily enough for me, this film sort of timed out perfectly. Just as [my son] was getting ready to start college... the CRYSTAL SKULL sort of came into my life right at that moment.

Did your experience as a single parent inform your performance as Marion, who is, for all intents and purposes, a single parent?

Allen: Well, I certainly have that identification. (Laughs) They're exactly the same age, in a way. Sometimes you just get that for free with a character, where something you're grappling with in your own life, you're right on the same page. That was kind of great.

You've worked with so many great directors over the years, but Steven is different. He's one in a million. What are the qualities that make him who he is?

Allen: He's just so clear about what he's doing, about the storytelling part of it. You always feel as though he'll let you try anything, and yet he has a good sense of what he's looking for in a given scene. I think my favorite thing about him as a director is that... you know, some directors love to work in a very improvisatory way, and some are very structured. Steven is both; he's very structured and improvisatory at the same time. He will kind of go in having an idea of what he wants to do, and yet he's quite open to doing it differently if things happen in such a way. Some directors, I feel, get stuck and can't really decide how they want to do something; if it's not working, they just sort of stick with what they're doing. [Spielberg is] very open; if it's not working, he'll immediately shift and start working with people, and trying this and trying that, and bringing in elements, or shooting it in an entirely different way. All of his preparation is there, but there is this fluidity about him where he can come at something in so many different directions. I think that is what makes him a really interesting director to work with for me. He loves to draw out ideas from people as well, and use things in the spontaneous moment. I think a lot of those moments which weren't necessarily in the script have become these classic moments in the films, like Harrison shooting the guy wielding the sword. These are just little things that happened out of the moment on the set. I think for him to recognize a moment like that, and go ahead and shoot it even though it's a far cry from what was planned in the script - you know, that was supposed to be the big fight sequence in the middle of the film, and it ended in like five seconds. (Laughs)

Was there a particular scene in the fourth movie that was improvised like that?

Allen: Let me think. (Considers for a moment) Nothing's leaping to mind. Maybe it'll come to me as we're talking. Probably there were lots of things.

There's a lot of CG in the new film. Did you have to act in front of a green screen much? And how was that different from the first film?

Allen: Well, we didn't have any green screen in the first film. But there wasn't a lot of green screen stuff in this film. I think I maybe did three or four green screen scenes. There were little bits and pieces here and there. When we were in the jungle, they would add a green screen because they wanted to change the scenery a little, give it a vista that wasn't quite there. And, of course, a lot of the stuff in the temple with all the crystal skull guys had to be green-screened. You feel a little odd when you're doing that. Steven would be there screaming, "Okay, the wall is crumbling!!!" (Laughs)

Did you know what those aliens were going to look like at the time?

Allen: Yeah, they were there! Those aliens weren't green-screened in. People might watch the film and think that a lot more of it was green-screened than actually was. All of those sets were actually there, and we were all in the sets doing a lot of the stuff that you see us do.

How did that differ from the first film when you walked into the snake pit? Did that seem really fake to you?

Allen: Well, there's nothing more real than 6,000 snakes! (Laughs) That'll really wake up your sense of reality. But that film had a lot more creepy-crawlies than this one. The ants were CG-ed, so they weren't anything anyone had to contend with. The snakes... you know, we spent two weeks shooting that snake sequence, and then the whole sequence in the crypt? That was another week or ten days, even though a lot of stuff got cut from that scene. I guess when they started looking at it, they were like, "Get out of there, already!" They were trapped in that... what was that called?

"The Well of Souls."

Allen: "The Well of Souls." Thank you. (Laughs)

What is it that makes Marion the one love interest that we want to see again. And would you come back for a fifth movie?

Allen: I just think that she was beautifully written in the first film. We meet her, and she's living in a bar in Nepal; her father is this exotic person who worked with Indy, but he's gone and she's stayed on there. She speaks Nepalese, and she's ordering around men who are twice her size. Then Indy comes in, and she punches him in the jaw. She was just such a boldly conceived character.

Especially for that time.

Allen: Especially for that time. It's in that line: "I'm your goddamn partner!" It's saying, "We're working together. We're a team." I just think something happened with Harrison and I, where their relationship clicked on screen. You wanted to see them together. And people were so disappointed when I didn't come back for the second one because... they didn't realize that it went back in time. It was a few years before [RAIDERS], and we know from what she says to him that they haven't seen each other for about ten years. Had it ever gone back as far as ten years, it would've been played by a different actress because she would've been sixteen. (Laughs)

Did you go back and watch RAIDERS to get back in character?

Allen: I watched RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK a few times, but I have to say that it's been a film that, for one reason or another... it's very unique in the sense that it kept coming back into my life. People would be doing a showing of it, like [Jeffrey] Jacobs, who runs the Paris Theater in New York... he decided he really wanted to show RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK on the big screen, and he invited me to come and do a little Q&A after these screenings. It was an amazing experience. It was packed with people who were bringing their kids to see it on the big screen for the first time. There kept being experiences like that, where people would call me and say, "Would you please come? We're going to show the film." So it was a film that sort of kept re-entering my life, so I didn't feel like I had a distance from it. It wasn't like, "Who was that character?" or "What was our relationship like?" It stayed very current in my life because often I would stay and watch the film when I was doing these things; I would get the chance to see it all over again on a big screen - which is so unusual. Once a film hits the big screen, we're kind of stuck with seeing it on television after that.

What's the working relationship like between Spielberg and Lucas?

Allen: I don't know that I can give you any real insight into that. When we're shooting the films, George only comes every now and then. Usually, he's off doing whatever in his world. He'll show up and spend two or three days with us; he'll sit around the set, and we'll have a chance to talk about whatever - we talked a lot about education this time around. But [Spielberg and Lucas] will have lunch together; they'll go off and watch dailies and talk. I can't say that I ever really got a sense of how they work together. It's private. It's not something that's necessarily on display. I know George often feels kind of useless once we get to the point where we're shooting the film. He feels his job is over by then. He comes down just to show support. He'll laughingly say, "Oh, [Steven] never listens to me anyway. If I have an idea, he never listens to me." (Laughs)

How open are you to getting the band back together one more time? Or maybe doing a spin-off with Shia?

Allen: I would say very open to it. This was a delightful experience. I would welcome it.

Has anyone raised that possibility?

Allen: Except for fans... not anybody officially.

Was David Koepp on set much?

Allen: You know, I didn't see him at all when we were shooting. I met him at Steven's apartment, and I don't think I've seen him since. Now, that doesn't mean that wasn't there on days when I wasn't shooting. Maybe he and Steven were off in their trailers talking. He might've been around, but I didn't see him if he was.

While you were shooting, where there new pages coming in?

Allen: There were occasionally pages that would come in, but they were just tiny adjustments in the dialogue. Nothing very major. There were some cuts in the ant scene. And as we got toward the end, and it looked like it was going on longer than we'd planned, they started looking for things that, if they fell away, they'd still be happy with the story. So there were little changes like that, but nothing major.

What was the flow of the shoot like?

Allen: It actually had a really great rhythm to it. It never felt that we were moving too quickly or that it was slow. There were very few problems, too. The sets, for the most part, all worked; they all did what they were supposed to do, and some of them were very, very complicated things. Like the set where the stairs are retracting as we're running down them. We all had to be in harnesses and everything, because if we fell off the steps it was a long fall. All of the sets had amazing little things that they were doing, like when we finally open up when we go into the temple, that incredible door that opens up. It was real, and... it worked beautifully. The first time that they opened that door for us, we were like, "Oh, my god!" We just wanted to go kneel at the feet of our wonderful set designer [Guy Dyas].

That door wasn't CG?

Allen: No, he made that. It was incredible. I hope they didn't destroy it because it was just a work of art to see that thing function. Other than the vacuum tubes or whatever it was that we were using when we were in the quicksand, we had some malfunctions with those that was not a lot of fun. (Laughs)

Aside from Shia, who's just starting his career, did you notice a difference in passion. Because [Steven, George and Harrison] are doing this as a choice. That it's something they love to do and are able to do.

Allen: Shia was there in a sense of awe. Shia couldn't believe his luck. He was like, "Oh my God. I'm going to be in an Indiana Jones film!" When I met him, he was sort of like, "Oh my God. I'm meeting Marion Ravenwood." "Oh my God. I'm meeting Indiana Jones." He had already met Steven and George, and the day that he met me... he met Harrison and me simultaneously. He was so excited about doing this film. He was just over the moon about it. Harrison was, too. Harrison came bouncing up the steps to my trailer, and he was just delighted to be working with Steven again. I think they have such a great working relationship, and he respects Steven so much as a director. I think he feels like he's in such great hands with Steven. I don't know anything about other directors that Harrison has worked with, but I think Harrison really wanted to do this film. He just really wanted to put on that fedora and the leather jacket again. And Cate Blanchett was so excited to do it. She had been an Indiana Jones fan as a kid, so I think there was this sense of passion and excitement, and even though it was something they had done again and again and again, it had this very fresh feeling because it had been such a long time. There were also all of these new added elements, like Cate and Shia and me coming back. But you're right. They didn't need to do it. Steven didn't need to, George didn't need to... it's not a matter of them needing to do another Indiana Jones film. Steven said he did it, really, because everybody kept asking him to. Everywhere he went, people kept coming up to him and asking, "When are you going to do another Indiana Jones film?" He said he felt like he was making this film for the fans. And that felt really good to him, to do a film that was like, "This is for everyone who supported the first three."

What did you think of Shia? How did you feel about him once you got to know him?

Allen: I just adored him. He is a great young man. He's very bright, and very funny and witty. To have the pleasure of sitting next to him in the makeup trailer every day, I would start the day laughing. He's like a raconteur. I've never met a twenty-one-year-old person who can tell stories the way he can. He's had quite an unusual and interesting life, both as an actor and starting out as young as he did. The things that got him into wanting to be an actor; he wanted to be an actor because he met an actor who had a really nice pair of tennis shoes that his family couldn't afford. (Laughs) He said, "How did you get those tennis shoes?" And [the actor] said, "I'm on this television show, and I make a lot of money." And Shia was like, "Okay!" He's lovely. As an actor, I think he can do anything that he wants to do. He's got a lot of depth to him. I've been very impressed. When I saw TRANSFORMERS... I mean, that's hard. Talk about green screen. That's really hard what he's doing: making us believe that these giant robots are there, and that he has this relationship with them. He commits himself so completely to each moment when he's working. Seeing the other independent films he's done, like [A GUIDE TO RECOGNIZING YOUR SAINTS]... he's excellent in that. I think he's fantastic. I had a great time with him. He's just an easy person to work with.

Now that CRYSTAL SKULL has brought you back, do you have a sense of where you want to take your career from here?

Allen: I suppose I feel a little reluctant to get involved in that conversation with myself. I would say I'm at this place of curiosity. I just want to see what comes my way. I feel like I'll invest myself as I go. Being realistic, I'm in my mid-fifties, and I'm not convinced that there's a real career out there to be had. I think there might be some interesting roles out there, but I just want to play it by ear. I'm not buying an apartment in Los Angeles and waiting for the phone to ring every day. I'm going to go on with my life as I was living it [before CRYSTAL SKULL] up in Massachussetts, and if an interesting script comes my way... I would love to get my career back to a place where I get considered for the interesting roles that get written for women in their fifties, sixties and even on into their seventies. I'll do whatever I can do to encourage that to happen, but you never know what you can do other than taking the best roles that you're offered and doing [the best work possible]. That's my feeling: good work begets good work.

What's the most unusual place you've been recognized as Marion?

Allen: (Long pause) Hm. I could tell you the funniest time I was recognized. It was here in Los Angeles, and it was just the situation. I had a boyfriend who lived here in Los Angeles, and I came here to surprise him on his birthday. Some friends of his were going to do a dinner to sort of get him out of the house while I came into the house to surprise him when he came home. I had a key to the house, and I came in through the front door, and then I called to say I'm here to his friends. They ended the dinner, and I'm sitting in the house. And he came home, started to open the door, and I'm listening and getting ready to say surprise. All of the sudden, I don't hear any noise. I wait and wait and wait, and I don't hear footsteps in the house. I keep waiting and waiting, and I'm thinking, "What happened to him?" I finally got up and I went to the door, and the door is slightly ajar. I went outside, and I don't see him. So I look around, and I hear a police helicopter above the house. Lights are flashing all over the top of the house, and I'm thinking, "Oh my God. He thinks somebody's in his house." Suddenly I hear all this noise outside the house. and, somehow through the glass doors, I see two cops in the yard with guns drawn coming towards the house. They're like, "Freeze!" And I went, "I'm his girlfriend! I'm his girlfriend!" So I very cautiously go over, and pull open the door, and the policeman looks in and says to me, "Weren't you in RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK?" (Huge laughter)



We lobbed a few more questions Ms. Allen's way after that, but this is undoubtedly the ideal place to end the transcript. Again, I can't emphasize enough how delightful she was. Hopefully, this is the beginning of a long, sustained comeback. Faithfully submitted, Mr. Beaks

Readers Talkback
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  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST

    I'm your Godamned Partner!

    by vic twenty

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST

    I'm your Godamned Partner!

    by vic twenty

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Best work in Carpenters "Starman".

    by vic twenty

    WHERE is the Special Edition DVD????

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:24 p.m. CST

    It's just a shame that...

    by Jedibobster

    Marion was reduced to a bit of a grinning muppet in KOTCS. And as it was her who drove off the cliff and landed on that big sticking out branch I hold her most responsible for stretching credibility more than any other moment. I'd have even let the fridge moment go...Anyhoo, Karen is still GREAT in Raiders, sweet and charming in Scrooged and Starman and erm...quite the hottie in The Wanderers.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:28 p.m. CST

    She was knocked out by Shia's acting?

    by Rocklover79

    Poor woman's going senile.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:36 p.m. CST

    a lot of talk about a crappy film

    by Rupee88

    I would rather hear Animal House stories.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Great interview, beaks

    by Smilin'Jack Ruby

    What a fun piece. Always thought she deserved more of a bump for her Laura Wingfield, but oh, well.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:45 p.m. CST

    I want to hear a story on Donald Sutherland's bare ass

    by Stuntcock Mike

    in Animal House. Cheating slut.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:45 p.m. CST

    RE:Rocklover79

    by thefrood

    What did you expect her to say "I thought Shia's acting sucked ass?" Show some respect.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Yeah that Door is real It is Amazing Watch the making of on the

    by eric haislar

    I thought it was CGI too. There was alot of stuff i thought was CGI that that was not.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:46 p.m. CST

    KOTCS did to Marion

    by kwisatzhaderach

    what Last Crusade did to Brody and Sallah - turned them into comedy caricatures of the roles they played in Raiders.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Rupee88: Don't speak for everyone

    by Playkins

    I didn't think it was a "crappy" film at all. Was it the best of the bunch- no. But I don't think it was crappy. And I don't appreciate it when people like yourself make a broad statement like "it sucks!" or "it's crappy!!". Add the words "I think" before those kinds of statements, chico.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:51 p.m. CST

    I love her

    by yodaismyhomie

    I've had a crush on Marion since soemwhere around 1983 or 84...that's when i first saw Raiders. Ummm...Crystal Skull could have been better but I did enjoy it. And Shia is not as bad as everyone says...I mean seriously. Is he perfect? NO! but I have no real complaints.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Just Got The 2-Disc

    by TheMovieLover

    Started watching the Production Diaries on the making of the film. They did a TON of stuff practical. I mean seriously, get the disc and watch it, tons of sets, locations, practical stunts and effects. A bunch of the jungle stuff was on location, all of the lighting was natural and real. It's very interesting to have all this material released to show how little CG was actually implemented. Sure there was some, and sure, that little bit kinda stuck out like a sore thumb. But instead of berating Steven and George for not getting it EXACTLY right, I think we should give them some credit for trying as hard as they did. I think that Kaminski is probably the one to fault, if anyone. They guy has such a talent with making things look surreal, I think he set up the location and practical shooting in a certain way and it just came off as fake looking. OF COURSE it's not going to be as good as the original, none of them are, the original was lightening in a bottle, and the squels have done the best to try and keep with the spirit of that. And for the record, I HATE George Lucas, and even I can learn when to swallow my pride and say, "you know what, you did a good job." Even though they didn't use the Darabont draft, which was pretty amazing.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:53 p.m. CST

    worst raping ever

    by reckni

    I laugh at anyone who buys that movie.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:55 p.m. CST

    It's not

    by FrenchBastard03

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 4:57 p.m. CST

    It's not "thought" of as a crappy movie. It simple IS a crappy m

    by FrenchBastard03

    And any thinking that it's not is nostalgic insanity skewing your objective thought on a truly worthless film. South Park pretty much nailed what George Lucas and Steven Spielberg REALLY made us watch this summer.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:02 p.m. CST

    great in Pacino's Cruising

    by Prossor

    an underrated gem from 1980 with Pacino doing his undercover cop Serpico bit, except he's infiltrating the s&m bondage underworld.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Also...

    by FrenchBastard03

    What happened to the days of honest journalism? Really Ms Allen? Incredible response from people who loved the film? I highly doubt that, and the fact that there was a room full of journalist who not once brought up the fact that a lot of fans of the series were disappointed just reeks of kiss ass "omgz Karen Allen" fanboyness rather than unbiased journalism. Shit.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:02 p.m. CST

    the Mask is coming to blu-ray on dec 9

    by Evil Hobbit

    Much more fun and doesn't hurt as much as Indy.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:07 p.m. CST

    So Frenchie,

    by vic twenty

    If you met Karen Allen would you really tell her how much she sucked, and Indy 4 sucked? Nobody was there to have an actress address what fans think of the film. That is not her job. She did what she could with the role, and if you don't like it, take it up with the director. Sheesh.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Beaks - you lucky fucker!

    by m.dung

    Karen Allen is one of my favorite actesses. Hope she's able to get some quality roles. Great Interview!

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:10 p.m. CST

    That South Park episode...

    by spaceworlder

    ...was a muddled mess.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Now I know why thee was a lack of location shooting

    by Spacesheik

    "Steven really made a decision that he didn't want to go overseas. He wanted to stay and be with his family, so the bulk of the film was going to be shot in Los Angeles"

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Get over it.

    by imagin78

    The complete exaggerations going on about the perfection of Raiders and the failure of KOTCS is insane. The minute that you dorks saw an old Harrison and old Marion, you had your hatchets out for the film. All four films are silly, adventure films that stretch credibility. That is the point of cliffhangers. KOTCS was just as entertaining as the other films and, IMHO, better than Crusade.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    French Person

    by r_number6

    This was a group interview to promote the DVD release of the movie. It was not a press conference to discuss the state of the economy. Would Leno or Letterman tell a guest "you know, I just saw your new movie and thought it was the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. What the hell were you thinking?" Yes, most actor/actress interviews are going to have an element of "kiss-ass" to them. Again, things liek this are promotional, not investigative journalism.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    FrenchBastard03 simply IS a useless waste of skin.

    by rev_skarekroe

    He simply IS a worthless human being with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not opinion - FACT.<p>Now go and look up the difference between "objective" and "subjective". Thus endeth the lesson.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Rrgh..."things LIKE this..."

    by r_number6

    Harry, pleasepleaseplease add a Preview button!

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:22 p.m. CST

    "You can't do this to me! I'm an American!!"

    by Chishu_Ryu

    Marion did have a bunch of good lines. In fact, the entire script of RAIDERS seemed to be one good line after another, kind of like a working man's CASABLANCA or something...

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Playkins

    by Rupee88

    I don't think Crystal Skill is crappy...I KNOW it is...atomic fridge and all.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:23 p.m. CST

    What A Hero I Would've Been...

    by mrbeaks

    ... hammering Karen Allen on a movie she neither wrote nor directed. You're right. We all disgraced our profession that day.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:32 p.m. CST

    I dont think it was great but...

    by FILMFUNK

    Will get it on Blue-ray for my kid. He's 4 and just loves Indianna Jones, I obviously prefer Raiders but enjoy watching Doom more coz he's mad for it! He has the soft sound FX Bullwhip and sings the themetune all day long but we try to check what movies are like first at the theatre before we take him and thought Indy 4 would be a bit too much on a massive screen so i can't wait to watch it with him on TV. The biggest kick i'll get out of this latest installment is seeing him loving it. There's no doubting it fails for the majority of us older, Raiders loving synical moanbags but seems to hold enough of the good old Indy magic to keep the young and young at heart happy, just wish people would be as honest about it's failings as they are about what works with it because that interview although entertaining and she sounds like a super lady comes across like a typical Hollywood gushathon!

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Karen Allen wasn't to blame for KOTCS

    by Octaveaeon

    Though I thought it was terrible what she was reduced to in her role. Felt more like an excuse to introduce Indy's son than a continuation of the character she'd portrayed in the first film. <p> And btw, that SouthPark episode wasn't very good, though I think that the graphic rape scenes were more a visceral illustration of fanboy jargon than a jab against the movie, though the interpretation remains open.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Just think, Beaks...

    by vic twenty

    If you had laid into her and made her cry, you could have gone upstairs and told Dad what a man you are. What a missed opportunity. Next time send Frenchie.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Not a horrible film

    by enderandrew

    I said it the day I saw in the theaters. I had fun. It was a fun ride if your expectations weren't too high. The biggest problem is that Indy doesn't save the day. Somewhere along the line Spielberg forgot how to end a film.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Fuck South Park

    by wampa_one

    That whole episode was CG! Long live Dr. Jones!

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:38 p.m. CST

    He knows how to treat a lady.

    by vic twenty

    They're all askin for it, all the time!

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:43 p.m. CST

    KOTCS is as good an Indy movie as the others

    by dr sauch

    You're all small minded nerds looking to wax intellectual and act like big-bad critics. KOTCS was just as good as the other 3, it just has not had time to sink in. You're all so very very fat, I hate these boards so much.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Damn Proud

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    of my 30+ year crush on Karen Allen.<p> Can't think of a performance of hers that I've seen, that I didn't like.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:54 p.m. CST

    dr sauch -

    by Samson_K

    You're an apologist idiot who can't recognise quality against quantity. You come onto a board that you hate so much and basically rate KOTCS as being just as good as Raiders. You act as though you have deeper insight into film because you like all 4 Indiana Jones films as much as each other. You might not be very very fat but you're not very very bright!<BR><BR>Just take the time to let that sink in!!!

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Beaks - at the very least

    by Samson_K

    You could have repeated everything she said in a high-pitched screechy voice - after a few hours that would have made her cry!<BR>Nice interview with an actress that I simply cannot understand why she didn't have more of a career. Is it something to do with being latched onto a larger than life hero character. So many of the Bond girls, Margot Kidder, Kate Capshaw (and yes she played Willie Scott brilliantly) - they all just seem to sputter through careers that don't fulfil the promise that they showed in these big action adventure movies.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Beaks

    by enderandrew

    Her job in the interview is to say positive things about the movie and promote it. I don't think you should hammer her, but why offer up boring softball questions? I think it might have been fair to ask if she might have handled the ending differently. It might have been fair to ask if she believes rabid fans are unfair in their criticism. It might be fair to ask if successful franchises get such a pass that they lack the proper editorial process that might otherwise catch storytelling flaws (such as the hero being meaningless in the grand scheme of the story). It might have been fair to ask if she felt slighted not appearing in the other Indy films. And instead of asking what did you think about X, when the person is obligated to say they liked it, ask instead what actor surprised them the most on the set, etc. Seriously, I think very few people at AICN know how to do a decent interview. Capone has done a few that I really enjoyed, but I am usually underwhelmed by the quality here. Quint frustrated me the most because he has had opportunities to interview Spielberg, perhaps the most influential and famous director of our generation, and asked not a single interesting question.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Work on your HTML motherfucker!

    by JimCurry

    Otherwise, great job.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:22 p.m. CST

    I agree with Butters

    by vadakinX

    I thought KOTCS was pretty good. <p> Aliens are just as legitimate as religious objects when it comes to Indy movies. Sure Marion could have had a little more to do and there are some silly moments but if Temple of Doom came out today we'd all be bitching and moaning about how Lucas had raped our childhoods by creating a new Jar Jar called Short Round. <p> If you don't like the movie, fine. But if you're just gonna bitch and moan over it...well get over it. <p> Read the interview...Lucas did fuck all after the script stages, most of the sets were real, most of the action and effects, practical. So you can't blame Lucas. <p> Most of the "controversial" elements actually came from Darabonts script, so you can't blame Koepp. <p> Spielberg shot it old school like the first 3 films so you can't blame him. <p> It made a shitload of money so you can't say everyone hated it. <p> But if you need someone to blame...blame yourself. Blame yourself for not being able to let go of your nostalgia and your childhood memories which has prevented you from enjoying the film. <p> I could be wrong but it looks to me as if a lot of people compared the film to how they imagined it should be rather than taking it for what it was, and that's sad. <p> So what is it? A fun adventure film in the style of old movie serials...just like the first three films, with a little 50's B Movie charm thrown in. <p> In the summer of 2008, Indiana Jones returned with a bang...I'm sorry you couldn't see that. But to each his own.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:24 p.m. CST

    PS

    by vadakinX

    I'm not an apologist...I feel no need to say sorry for liking the movie and I feel no desire to spend the night defending it. I'll just let the movie speak for itself. Goodnight.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST

    vadakinx

    by t40stunt

    liked the post man . just wanted to say that if any of the crybabies on here took the time to watch the whole behind the scenes dvd to kotcs you'd see how much passion people put forth to make this an indy to be proud of . i myself am biased having done a bit of work on it but i have to say i was always stoked to go to work knowing that i got to see my childhood idol and live in that fantasy for a few hours a day . none of the creative folks behind this "phoned it in" or were trying for a "cash grab" . i saw it in their faces that they believed in what they were making .i also want to defend the whole "to much cg " bullshit . i can say first hand almost all the stunts were practical ....it fucking kills me when i hear all that noise about everything being cg ...check out the behind the scenes and fucking get informed . as for the final product ...was it my favorite ? no ...then again i'm not 10 anymore and something tells me a lot of you out there aren't either . of course thats one guys opinion , but from someone who was actually around . if you don't like what i had to say ,and i know there's a few shit talking babies out there ...well then tough shit and there's no helping you anyways .

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Didn't cover everything

    by RenoNevada2000

    How come you didn't talk about her knitting?

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Indy 4 is great fun!

    by sonnyfern

    It just moves a little too fast is all, they never stop to just relax for a moment. All the other flicks had a moment like that somewhere in them. But I'm not going to complain, despite the flaws (mostly the weird unreality moments) it's still a damn FUN FILM. And there ain't nothing wrong with that.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Mixed feelings, of course, but thanks nonetheless.

    by DarthCorleone

    Admittedly, I abhorred the film, but I very much appreciated the interview and enjoyed the read. I'm happy that Karen Allen had a positive experience in the creation of the movie and shared her Indiana Jones tales with us. And thanks, Beaks, for being the messenger.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Indy didn't save the day in Raiders either...

    by sonnyfern

    He was tied to a stake :-P

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Was the standing ovation at cannes serious?

    by lord_zedd

    I really really thought they were being sarcastic...

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 7:08 p.m. CST

    She did good in Skull with what she had

    by performingmonkey

    As written there was just nothing to Marion in KOTCS. It was as though Koepp never saw Raiders and realised what her character was like. She could have been just ANY of Indy's girlfriends (the only thing that showed she wasn't was the exchange where he says 'they weren't you, honey'). It's similar to how Willie pissed me off so much after Marion had been so great in Raiders. Some writers just don't get that a female role can be more than either shouting and screaming or being the weak damsel. Shia was the best co-star in Skull, partly because he was given at least some character material and a real connection with Ford's Indy.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 8:11 p.m. CST

    "I won't bore you with a protracted introduction"

    by O_Goncho

    Am I on the right site? LOL OMG JK JKIN'

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Classy lady.

    by Zarles

    Say what you want about Crystal Skull (I enjoyed it just fine), but Karen's awesome. She's the reason I'm so attracted to tough, intelligent women nowadays, and I hope like hell I get to tell her that to her face someday. I wish her much success.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 8:39 p.m. CST

    the jungle chase was practical...

    by Captain Katanga

    ...and then it was touched up with CGI from top to bottom, leaves and foilage were added, and the colour was turned right up. Theres a before and after image somewhere on The Internets. What started off as a dusty, dirty chase through real jungle ended up a weird fake-looking CGI hybrid with the colour green dialed right up. I can just about tolerate people saying this film is OK, provided you lower your expectations, there's some goofy fun to be had... but anyone that claims it's just as good as the others, when it so demonstrably, objectively ISN'T, deserves to be taken outside and put out of their misery.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 8:56 p.m. CST

    katanga ?

    by t40stunt

    its ALMOST just as good as the others ...just wondering if your going to be the one that takes us out and puts us out of our misery ? for some reason i doubt it . just wondering

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    Whoa calm down people.

    by FrenchBastard03

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 9:04 p.m. CST

    by FrenchBastard03

    I'm not exactly sure where in my post I blamed Karen Allen on the failures of KOTCS. I was simply wondering, as enderandrew so wonderfully puts it, why any of the interviewers couldn't simply bring up the fact that no, not everyone was happy with the film, and what are her thoughts on the fans that reacted negatively toward it. I'm sorry if my hatred of the movie somehow poured over into hatred of Karen Allen, for that is not the case. It just would have made for a more interesting interview in my opinion. But hell, who am I to say what would be more interesting than hearing Karen Allen try to sell DVDs and tell people what her favorite color is.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 9:16 p.m. CST

    t40stunt

    by Captain Katanga

    Yes I'll be the one to do it. Either that or I was exaggerating for comic effect...

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 10:22 p.m. CST

    "I'm your goddamn partner!"

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    I like the TV edit, where she yells "I'm your DANCE partner!"

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 10:52 p.m. CST

    I want the recipe to the kool-aid they serve at lucasfilm.

    by TOGSolid

    That must be some strong shit.

  • Oct. 14, 2008, 11:56 p.m. CST

    Nepal Marion vs Egypt Marion

    by Dreamfasting

    It really struck me watching KotCS that there were two Marions in Raiders: one in Nepal who was stronger and more independent and one who was in Egypt who was a little more the traditional female-in-danger. The KotCS Marion seemed more like the Egypt character even though my preference was for the Nepal version, but even so there is something wonderfully non-traditional about her character in this sort of movie. Women became treated as throw-away eye candy in the Indy movies and that just never felt true to a character as focused and obsessive as Indy. For all the flaws I felt I saw in KotCS, the fact that Marion (any version of Marion) was there felt very right.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:50 a.m. CST

    I'll buy ten copies.

    by imagin78

    I'm going to buy a couple copies just to spite the pathetic fanboys that cling to these misbegotten notions of the perfection of the first three Indy films. Bring on Indy 5 and 6. I'll take a million second rate Spielberg films over any of the piles of crap that Bay, Ratner, and McG churn out.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 2:14 a.m. CST

    Karen is OH so sweet.....And glade to see

    by StraightToHell

    love for Cruising (albeit from one person). C'mon you zombies, you can't tell me that Cruising is one of Friedkin's best and most underrated films. It just gets better every time you see it. I love how he had different actors play the killer every time (the last victim being the killer the next time) and Pacino's descent into semi-madness was/is extremely unnerving. The feel and the atmosphere of the whole piece is very creepy and I love the enigmatic ending. Oh yeah, Karen Allen was awesome in it too. But, like others, I see Starman as her best role. I too get chocked up every time I watch that fucking ending, and the deer scene never fails to turn me into a sniveling bitch. There is movie magic there, all these years later. As far as Indy 4 goes, I didn't mind some of the CGI (dude, how many special effects shots did TOD have??? the whole damn mine chase is FX), but the animals and the whole bits of the jungle chase looked unbelievably fake even if most of the chase was shot in real jungle. Ford looked tired and almost got lost in the last act. This could have been dynamite, but just turned out to be blah. Spielberg has a real problem of late of not being able to end his films. Munich, AI, Minority Repot, War of the Worlds, all had spectacular first two-thirds and then unraveled towards the end. The action scenes in Munich, the down-the-wall car chase in Minority Report and the first alien attack in WOTW is some of the most spectacular directing Spielberg has ever done. The guy can stage reallistic, visceral sequences better than even Cameron (which almost seems impossible). But he has no patience anymore to finish the film as well as he started it.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 2:17 a.m. CST

    FUCK!!! that meant to say

    by StraightToHell

    you can't tell me that Cruising is NOT one of Friedkin's best and most underrated films.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 2:28 a.m. CST

    No Shia spin off

    by deanbarry

    Ever. Ever. Ever! No, no, no! That would be wrong. Really, really wrong. Don't do it!

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 2:30 a.m. CST

    And Saving Private Ryan was

    by StraightToHell

    unbelievable in terms of sheer technical skill and reallistic depiction of combat. But lets face it, the movie itself is laborous, obvious and very heavy-handed. Compare it to The Thin Red Line that came out the same year and it just does not hold up as an intelligent study of war and its effect on people. Shit, The Big Red One had a fifth of the budget of SPR and it said more in any one of its scenes that SRP did in its entirety. And one more thing about Friedkin. Can somebody please tell me why were are getting a Special Edition # 20 for Constantine but have yet to see even a remastered version of the masterpiece that is Sorcerer??? Not only is this a rare case of a remake eclipsing the original in every possible way, but on its own it is one of the best existantial action movies ever made. Friedkin went for broke here and the rope bridge scenes alone still kick all kinds of ass out of the pathetic pieces of shit we call action films these days. Considering that they were done for real and with no CGI, they are downright astounding. Please, somebody do something. We got the much wanted Special Editions of Friedkin's best work (The French Connection, The Exorcist, Cruising and To Live and Die in LA), can't we get one of Sorcerer too?

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 2:38 a.m. CST

    imagin78

    by Samson_K

    So - are you going to buy 10 copies or a couple of copies - I just need to know so that I can feel the full force of your wrath?<BR><BR>If you honestly have such a high tolerance for movies that you feel that KOTCS is every bit as good as Raiders - and you also feel that LC is every bit as good as Raiders - I'm happy for you - seriously I wish that I was devoid of higher brain functions too. I'd have liked nothing better than to have loved KOTCS - even liked KOTCS - but there wasn't that much to like.<BR><BR>Oh, by the way, pathetic fanboys is probably a phrase that best suits some idiot that proclaims he's going to buy more than one DVD copy of a film just to spite anyone who didn't like the film - the 78 part of your name? IQ or date of birth?

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Spielberg loved ID4!!

    by darthvedder81

    I just finished watching some of the special features on the KOTCS DVD. At one point Spielberg is talking about why Indy 4 got delayed and mentions the success of "Independence Day" and all of it's Area 51 mythology being the culprit. Then he goes on to say how much he liked the movie and even praises Roland Emmerich! That sort of blew my mind. ID4 was fun though and so is KOTCS!

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 3:17 a.m. CST

    Scrooged

    by tomdolan04

    I love that movie and I loved her in it (sighs)

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 3:20 a.m. CST

    Indy being raped

    by darthvedder81

    I can understand people being a bit let down by KOTCS but I'm mystified by the "rape" comments. Any problems with Indy 4 were not due to the legacy of Harrison Ford/Indiana Jones being disrespected by Spielberg or Lucas. If anything there was a little too much gushing reverence for the character in the movie. For a 65 year old Indy I thought Ford held his own.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 4:03 a.m. CST

    darthvedder81, I beg to differ.

    by StraightToHell

    Ford not only did not hold his own, but looked like he was in danger of either falling alseep half the time, or appeared to be ready to wander off the set due to a lack of interest in the surrounding proceedings. Look, Ford is the man. One of my favorite actors. The Mosquito Coast is one of the greatest characters performances by any actor (right up there with Salieri in Amadeus and Brandauer in Mephisto). And the first three Indy films had Ford with a look in his eyes like he couldn't wait to get one step closer to whatever it was that he was after. But in Indy 4 he just looked like he kept wondering from scene to scene because the script told him to. I know that he's Indy at 65 and not at 30 or 40, but Connery was the same age in Last Crusade and he was hysterical and commanding at the same time. The one look he gives to Ford right after they get away from the Germans on the bike (when Ford grins at him waiting for a complement) is priceless. He felt alive in as Henry Jones, and his child-like joy in the second half of the film, where he gets a taste of the rough-and-tumble world of archaeology that his son deals in, is just wonderful. It's not about the age. It's about an actor clearly getting a kick out of his work. Hollywood Homicide gets shit on almost by all of Ford's fans, but his performance in the movie was dynamite in terms of comic timing and physicality. And he was not that much younger there. But in Indy 4 he just looks spent.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 4:09 a.m. CST

    darthvedder81

    by Samson_K

    The problems that I had with KOTCS weren't down to Ford or Spielberg's direction - the problem I had was with the screenplay. And I've read Frank Darabont's and am not really convinced that would have made a much better movie either.<BR><BR>I just felt that on the whole it wasn't really an Indiana Jones film - I understand the family thing but after 19 years I really wanted to see Indiana Jones being the main focus of the story (I thought Shia was very good as a matter of fact), I wanted Marion to be given something to do - too many characters made this almost impossible. No-one really had anything defined or memorable to do.<BR><BR>There were scenes in the movie that seemed to have been written for Henry Jones Sr - the quicksand scene especially, I can imagine that playing quite well with Connery explaining the differences between quicksand and drysand while Ford tries to escape.<BR><BR>Far too much exposition - not very defined or compelling exposition.<BR><BR>Mac's character being introduced with a few lines and then double crossing Indy immediately - I'm not sure if we were meant to care - better to have had Mac betray him later in the film so we could see how close a friendship these guys had. It was almost as if this was actually Indy 5 or 6 - we just hadn't seen the original (how much more compelling and shocking would it have been if Sallah had betrayed him rather than someone we had never met before?)<BR><BR>See, the fridge, the monkeys, the gophers - none of them would have particularly bothered me (in fact I like the Fridge scene) if the remainder of the film had been well enough written to support the goofiness - but when you have a film with so many criminally underdeveloped ideas then it's hard to ignore.<BR><BR>Ford and Spielberg are not really to blame for acting or directing - they must take some share in the blame for accepting this script - but after having read many of the rejected scripts I've come to the conclusion that Indy seems to be really hard to write for.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 4:10 a.m. CST

    OK Connery was 59 in Last Crusade but

    by StraightToHell

    it's not that much older than 65. And Ford is clearly in a superb shape still and did manage to bring some energy to the fighting scenes in Indy 4. But when the movie switched from action to character work, Ford dialed down his performance dramatically.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 4:39 a.m. CST

    KOTCS was good...

    by wildphantom07

    I'm fed up of the whinging on here about how much it sucked because it plain didn't. <p> I dislike the tarzan scene as much as everyone else; but there really isn't alot else wrong with it. <p> Sure the second half is much goofier but it was fun and I had just as good a time with it as most of the other good flicks this summer. <p> Technically it was a marvel. Pick up the DVD or blu-ray and just watch what a master spielberg is at composition. That jungle set-piece was mostly awe-inspiring; the likes of which we haven't seen for over a decade. For those of us that have to put up with Bayhem action scenes you can't even follow year after year seeing this kind of old school proper action was heaven-sent. <p> Right now I would say its as good as Last Crusade in its own way and look forward to another instalment.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 4:51 a.m. CST

    Samson_K 'Indy is hard to write for'

    by Mr Gorilla

    I reckon you hit the nail on the head. James Bond has the same problems. The lone hero just isn't that interesting. What's interesting are his relationships. Sheer gusto got Spielberg etc through the first Indy film - it really was a case of lightening striking. Then they tried a goofy romance and surrogate son in the second film - didn't work. Then the dad thing in the third film - I thought that worked brilliantly. Funny and touching. So their instincts were dead right in making the fourth film about a real (not surrogate) son. But where do you go from there? You can't KEEP having new family members. (Do you remember the rumour that Kevin Costner was going to play Indy's 'evil brother'?) Bond, meanwhile, well if you look at that it's insane. The moment you get real in any way about the character, you have to face the fact that he's a horrible bastard. What relationships can you give him? And you can't 'warm him up' in the classic Bogart/Casablanca fashion, because he's got to come back for film after film. The only trick they have up their sleeve is to make him fall in love - OHMSS, Casino Royale - or to hurt him by killing a friend, lover or associate (which happens in most of them).

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 6:27 a.m. CST

    "You know it's going to be good."

    by ricarleite

    BULLSHIT. This woman is so out of touch with reality, it HURTS. The movie BOMBED, lady, it was a FAILURE, and you KNOW it, and I HOPE Spielberg knows it. Also, the DVDs have been out here in Brazil for at least a MONTH! You're telling me those are getting released in the US just NOW? This is NEVER a good sign. Never. When a film usually is released here before it is on the US, it means one thing: SHIT.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 6:40 a.m. CST

    The jungle chase comparison image

    by ricarleite

    http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20080522/wgtindyCG0522/IndySpecial_800big.jpg Fix the URL yourself. And by the way, I prefer the one on the top. How about you?

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 7:34 a.m. CST

    Not being shot on location

    by I AM ROCKO

    Ah..that explains the look of the film in some of the outside sequences, especially the jungle chase (which seems to have caused the most controvesy)- again the sets looked great but everything about the "location" work when abroad seemed off, and that is because it was lots of green screen...

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 7:37 a.m. CST

    "Remember that r-refrigerator scene?...

    by Kid Z

    ...i-it didn't m-make any sense!"

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 8:02 a.m. CST

    ricarleite...

    by Zarles

    I'm not sure which backwater Brazilian shithole excuse of a city you live in, but back here in civilization, $800 million worldwide is hardly considered a 'bomb'. Oh, and KOTCS wasn't released in Brazil until October 3rd, which is quite a bit less than a month. Not sure if you've flagged down a missionary to help you learn to count yet, but just so you know.<p>Anyway, you can get back to milking your goat now. Sorry to interrupt you at work.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 8:18 a.m. CST

    Damn Zarles.

    by vic twenty

    You really emptied both barrels, there, eh? Nice.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Zarles

    by Lou Stools

    You owe me a new keyboard. Hilarious!

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 10:30 a.m. CST

    WHEREIN I SALUTE KAREN ALLEN

    by ArcadianDS

    Pardon the Dumasian subject line, but Im feeling a bit French-Restorationic this morning.<p> I always wondered what happened to Karen Allen. I only remember seeing her in half a dozen movies, and she was simply wonderful in every role. And then she vanished. The first assumption, and a safe one unfortunately, is to confuse her with Kate Bosworth and attribute her Hollywood disapearing act to a bad acid trip culminating in a futile search through a restaurant dumpster for her missing bridgework. The other knee-jerk assumption is to attribute her falling star to the unfortunate ravages of time and gravity on her body. Upon seeing KOTS, it is clear that she neither drugged herself into oblivion nor did she hit the proverbial wall that has shattered many a promising thirty-something starlet.<p> And now having read this interview, a mystery is solved - she raised her son. As I read her recounting her past days of turning down exotic shoots because her son was finishing his 8th grade in school, I thought to myself, "god bless her." She put aside her own personal and potentially selfish needs and expectations, to ensure that her son grew up stable and educated - that he had a 'normal' life instead of the 'Hollywood childhood' of studio tutors and a lack of true structure - a system that continues to crank out empty vessels devoid of humanity, wisdom, education, and spirit. Who among us would NOT want a mother like that?<p> God bless her.<p> And lets get some scripts in her hands, please. Arguably, some better scripts than the KOTS script (arguably because I argue that it wasn't a bad film. I did NOT care for the X-Files theme, but who among us is NOT guilty of saying, at one point or another, "heck I'll take a Temple of Doom II over not having any more Indy movies at all!" - well in many regards we got a Temple of Doom II (at best).<p> Anyway, odds are not good that she's ever going to read this talkback because its going to be vile, unsupervised, and unmoderated - but all the same, she deserves some praise not for being a great actress and not for being a warm and gracious interview - but for being a good mother. We should be handing out gold statues for that.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    I'm tired of the BS...

    by LarryTate

    this statement: "You know... with Steven, George and Harrison, you never worry that it's not going to be good. You know it's going to be good. " ....Was Karen the actress found naked in some bushes or was that Lois Lane?

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Love Karen Allen, don't love KOTC

    by thot

    I too was glad to see her return in the movie, but too bad it was such a piece of tripe. I have no interest whatsoever in seeing it again or buying the DVD. If they do an Indy V, you can bet it'll suck too.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 10:44 a.m. CST

    KOTCS, a complete failure?

    by Rikrik the White

    It almost certainly isn't the best film of the series, but I wouldn't call it a failure. It's the second highest grossing film this year, it grosses far more than it cost to make. It put a lot of butts in seats, and did quite a bit of repeat business. Granted, Raiders is the only perfect film in the series, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull I think is on par with any of the other Indy sequels. I don't get all the hate toward this film. When the original indy's and star wars's came out, we were all young, our minds very open to the filmmaking revolution that was happening in the mid 70's to early 80's Seeing star destroyers pass over camera, lightsabers blazing, and rogue archeolegists being chased by giant boulders was new at that time, and in our present day, there has been so many things put on the screen since then, when you don't get that feeling that you cherished as a kid during that filmmaking revolution, you whine and cry about how badly something sucks. Here's an idea, stop being so hypercritical about every detail on the movie screen and just try and enjoy something for one time in your pathetic adult lives. That revolution of the 70's and 80's is over, everything that follows is imitation, deal with it.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Remember When...

    by TheMovieLover

    Remember when everyone was saying that the trailers for the 3rd Mummy movie made it looks like THAT was a movie that had the Indiana Jones spirit, and not this "piece of shit", as some people put it? Remember that? God how much did THAT movie suck? Indiana Jones movies will still reign supreme in the genre of action/adventure. No one does it better. Adventure has a name, and it ain't Rick O'Connell or Benjamin Gates, it's INDIANA MOTHERFUCKIN JONES.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Ahh.. Cruising.

    by gotilk

    I remember that. That was my first introduction to fisting. The second was many years later, right after waiting in line for about 13 hours for The Phantom Menace.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Now I wonder

    by LarryTate

    if all the old movies I liked really sucked and I was just a kid at the time so I didn't know better... And repeat viewings now are supported by that high nostalgia factor.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, noon CST

    KOTCS

    by JLo

    Heres my take on it, Lucas has just lost it. The ants, Tarzan swinging, the snake rope,gophers,and worst of all the nuke the fridge scene, all on their own,along with a great script, could work or at least be passable. The probelm is when you add all those silly scenes together with a script that is OK at best you're going to piss fans off. Sure,all the Indiana Jones movies have a few "roll your eyes" moments, but they kept it to a minimum in the past. It comes down to this, Lucas has lost a feel for what is COOL,and thats the bottom line for me. After watching this movie and the PT I really think Lucas should start doing cartoons full time. Everything he has been involved with over the last 10 years or so wants to be a live action cartoon. I guess some people are ok with that but to me it is out of place.<p>As a result I've decided to stop spending money on ALL Lucas products, that means movies, t-shirts, toys, everything that has to do with Lucas. I don't have any bad feelings for the guy, dont' hate the guy, I don't feel raped, I just don't like the direction as an "artist" he's taken so I will speak from my wallet and hopefully more fans will do the same.<p> Also, I just watched the latest South Park and I do not think they are making fun of the fans. If you have ever listened to some of their commentary its clear how they feel about Lucas Film projects. I think it's pretty cool that they're speaking out on this.<p>One more thing, you don't hear people complaining about the TDK so it is possible to make a come back. If they can make a cool Batman movie after "Batman & Robin" then I know it's possible to have a really kick ass cool Star Wars or Indiana Jones movie. We just have to hit them where it hurts most, the wallet, until that happens we're just going to keep getting these little cartoon crap movies.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Watched it again last night...

    by sapno_krei

    It was better than I remember it, perhaps because it plays well as just another Indy adventure rather than as the Second Coming of Dr. Jones. I honestly think they could pull a fifth one out of the bag and do something really great and worthwhile.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Have you seen the Grosses?

    by MamoVaka

    Raiders - 386m worldwide Temple - 333m worldwide Crusade - 474m worldwide Skull - 783m worldwide The numbers speak for themselves.. the movie is the most successful in the series from the studio's perspective.. If you feel the filmmakers need to learn something from this what can they possibly learn? the movie didn't tank.. it made a fortune.. the only thing they will learn is that they should make another one.. STAT to make another billion..

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Still an Awful Movie

    by Jack Shepherd

    Six months have passed and still people defend this movie? When will it finally sink in that every second of this film is awful? I can say with 100% certainty that I'll never watch this movie ever again. It's easily on my Ten Worst list.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:32 p.m. CST

    ricarleite

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Skull is the second biggest film of the year behind The Dark Knight. How does that equate a bomb? Please, explain it to me.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Iron Man is #2 for the Year

    by Jack Shepherd

    I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Iron Man edged Indy 4 out in total domestic box office by a couple million dollars.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Jack Shepherd

    by kwisatzhaderach

    That's right, I was referring to worldwide figures though: Indiana Jones - $784 million, Iron Man - $573.8 million.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:46 p.m. CST

    kwisatzhaderach

    by Jack Shepherd

    Ah, yes. I'll never understand how that happened, but you're right.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 12:46 p.m. CST

    It did make a bunch of money...

    by JLo

    so im pretty sure they are going to make another one. Honeslty you cant' argue with the box office. Still to me everything that involves Lucas looks like a cartoon. I guess thats what people want.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Hard to read AICN's interviews with the formatting

    by Flip63Hole

    fix the red text at least...

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Interview was better than the flick!

    by alienindisguise

    Good job AICN!!!

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 2:50 p.m. CST

    "You suck, your movie sucks, get the (beep) outta here."

    by thegreatwhatzit

    Would Leno or Letterman tell a guest "you know, I just saw your new movie and thought it was the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. What the hell were you thinking?" The late Mort Downey had no qualms about "reviewing" a guest's movie. He was nuts but he was also the only talk show host to pan a movie while the film's star was in attendance. I'd love to see Lenp ull the same routine. As for INDY 4, I was stuck in the hospital for the summer so I'll screen the DVD. A local reviewer compared it to Abbott and Costello's JACK AND THE BEANSTALK. Not a good thing, right? Oh, Zarles: your comment to the Brazilian fan was acidic and hostile. I also split my sides reading it (LITERALLY fell out of my chair). If I retreat to the hospital, it's your fault. Meanwhile, I've gotta scroll back up and read it again.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST

    LET THIS FUCKING MOVIE DIE!!! FUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!

    by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD

    This is painful. Its like reliving the Presidential Election of 1888 over and fucking over again. Benjamin Harrison beating incumbent President Cleveland? Give me a fucking break!! Talk about an upset!! FUCK YOU BEARDS!!

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Inflation

    by enderandrew

    If you account for inflation, no movie today will hold up for a variety of reasons. Our entertainment budget is now split between theaters, DVDs, internet, video games, 200 cable channels, etc. Back in the day you could go see Gone With the Wind 20 times because you weren't getting a DVD, and there was nothing else to do. Even in the early 80's VCRs hadn't fully caught on with every house.

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 6:04 p.m. CST

    money

    by MamoVaka

    It's not just the money it made.. but the fact that it also was well reviewed.... it's not like it was a turkey in reviews and somehow made a fortune.. You are all hating on a well recieved (by critics) and successful film.. On a personal note, I saw it 2x in theatres and bought the blue ray and watched it again.. it's entertaining and has some good action scenes and some decent heartfelt scenes also.. I truly believe it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge this film vs. our memories as children of the originals.. you just cannot compete with nostalgia.. that is the main problem.. it may be impossible to make a new indiana jones movie be as good as the last ones in our opinion..

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 6:04 p.m. CST

    money

    by MamoVaka

    It's not just the money it made.. but the fact that it also was well reviewed.... it's not like it was a turkey in reviews and somehow made a fortune.. You are all hating on a well recieved (by critics) and successful film.. On a personal note, I saw it 2x in theatres and bought the blue ray and watched it again.. it's entertaining and has some good action scenes and some decent heartfelt scenes also.. I truly believe it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge this film vs. our memories as children of the originals.. you just cannot compete with nostalgia.. that is the main problem.. it may be impossible to make a new indiana jones movie be as good as the last ones in our opinion..

  • Oct. 15, 2008, 6:45 p.m. CST

    i hated the fucking movie like i hate your mother's

    by kamar

    ugly fucking face ... i had an unpleasant reaction ... some people like the taste of shit, some people don't ... some eat the shit even though they don't like the taste ... but for reasons unknown I enjoyed the hell out of speed racer ... even I don't understand that, but i guess one person's turd is someone else's filet mignon ...

  • Oct. 16, 2008, 2:30 a.m. CST

    The Nostalgia Argument

    by Samson_K

    Doesn't mean anything - look, we can buy our favourite films in various formats and watch them and inb many cases movies or television shows that we loved as kids can be pretty fucking terrible when revisited.<BR><BR>It's not the case of Raiders only existing as a memory for us now. Nostalgia plays little or no part in this for me at least.

  • Oct. 16, 2008, 6:24 a.m. CST

    I love to see Indy fans who hate Indy 4

    by theycallmemrglass

    cry out in misery, "they raped my childhood" and they all come to AICN, the haven for these minority miserable gits, for solace. , Well boo fucking hoo. Bwahaaa, it makes me sooo fucking happy to see them be so miserable. While I along with apprx 70% of the movie going public and a die hard Indie fan, enjoy Indy 4, another fun filled Indiana Jones movie. Love it. Ha ha you poor sods. And to think, I was one of those who did not even want Indy 4 to be made because Harrison was getting on. But they pulled it off taking the franchise in a new direction.

  • Oct. 16, 2008, 8:44 a.m. CST

    die hard Indie fan???????

    by Samson_K

    Really?<BR><BR>Show me five people who have actually said 'They raped my childhood'?<BR><BR>Just because you're willing to accept shit in a hat as a good movie doesn't mean to say that anyone not using film as a version of Prozac has to

  • Oct. 16, 2008, 9:28 a.m. CST

    The question that was not asked

    by Abominable Snowcone

    "Given your fine contribution to Crystal Skull, and notwithstanding the joy of seeing Indiana Jones on screen again, don't you think Stephen and George nuked the fridge?"<p> C'mon baby, give me some sugar

  • Oct. 16, 2008, 9:29 a.m. CST

    eustisclay

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I snuck into that movie when I was, what, maybe 12? Yep, true jackoff fodder.

  • Oct. 16, 2008, 4:01 p.m. CST

    nuke the frij

    by Staldo

    I am gettin sick of the idiot-gasms over hiding in a lead-lined fridge to escape a nuclear blast. I read "lead-lined" on the fridge and that, along with the fact that he was Indiana fucking Jones was enough explanation for me. I know nuclear bombs are the ultimate disintegrator of everything in the minds of most ignorant dorks, but the fact is a lot of things can survive a blast from a few miles away, including lead objects. If any of you have actual experience working with 50's-era nuclear weapons, please set me straight. But there are plenty of metal artifacts from within a few miles of ground zero in hiroshima. I find other elements of KOTCS far more concerning, however, such as the heavy use of CGI for things as common and real as gophers and, well, jungles.

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