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Talkbacker Chrth Says Monday’s HEROES 'Kicked Ass'!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
SPOILER!! I’ve given up on “Heroes,” but I hear Claire is still trying to kill Peter will bullets. Also, Peter had to ask permission or something to take Sylar’s power? Then Sylar blew up California? But doesn’t Peter already have Sylar’s powers? And since when did Peter need permission?
Say, did Noah ever figure out Sylar's weakness is the Haitian? Or that Sylar was already captured with Elle's lightning?
Maybe my intel is wrong. Should I watch it when the West Coast feed rolls around?
Bandwidth. Predictions. Reactions.
9 p.m. Monday. NBC.
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Tonight I am giving it one last chance. But unless I am totally blown away I am done.
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Seriously, Herc, if this ep doesn't do it for you, you're right to stop watching.
But don't stop the talkbacks. Seriously, the new CW shows get 10 posts, while Heroes is second only to Lost in tb. You want web hits, man! -
I've been a Heroes fan from the start, and this one *was* very good. Season 1 good.
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(The first being the Spiderman 2 commercial that secretly aired during ... um ...)
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Somebody just told me Peter conveniently lost his healing ability when Claire shot him?
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http://www.aintitcool.com/?q=node/17330 (remove spaces)
*sniff* I feel like I've arrived now -
Sylar Killed Dexter And Stole His Talkback.
'Nuff Said. -
Trust me.
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His powers haven't stopped working yet
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"Heroes" TalkBacks probably generate too much traffic to get the axe, but I dunno.
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You only saw him for a few moments.
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This season is a joke.
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It took some enthusiastic posting in other TBs to get this one up. Something tells me if the episode had been on par with the first couple of the season (or any of last season), no TB would have arrived.
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"They managed to have a kick-ass episode WITHOUT Kristen Bell in it." Progress, this. :)
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Save Mr. Muggles, Save The World
Two great segues
"You don't read much, do you?"
"What he said! ... I do?"
Only 3 possible Ali Larter characters. 1 down, 2 to go. -
"Hiro, you son of a bit--!"
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its funny how shows that get far less posts get talkbacks on a site thas suppose to be about stuff people that post on a site like this find cool but there are no talkbacks for said stuff that this sites income is based on. sidenote: this episdoe today was pretty damn goood and seeing what happens now between sylar and peter is actually gona be interesting especially knowing the next chapter is fugitive
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Doesn't my whole line of Sylar slicing Dexter's head and taking his talkback deserve to be on that list as well?
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Nathan's flying looks really fake
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I did say 'some highlights'.
Also:
When I kick you that means go faster! -
Because all the good stuff happens 10 minutes aforehand
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Oct 06, 2008 9:43:16 PM CDT
An entertaining episode but the show is hardly transcendent.
by alpo jones
You know what would make this show better? Let's rehash all the plots from season one (FUTURE EXPLOSIONS!)and make it so everybody is an evil twin! Brilliant!
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"Hiro, you son of a bit-"
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Remember: Save Mr Muggles, Save the World
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Also, there was quite a discussion on turtles and plenty of >>>>>>>>>>>> to go around.
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Any time you go into a show like Heroes, and you search for Plot Holes, you are going to find them. The best thing to do is sit back for a hour, watch the show, and then move on with your life with realizing that you are not watching an episodic version of a Dickens Novel. Besides not all shows have to have perfect writing and make sense on every level, because there was a period on both Buffy and Angel where it became tedious to watch those shows every week, but the complaints didn't ring fales like it does with the Heroes backlash. Furthermore, a lot of people complained about the slow pace of Season 1 and the Season 2, and this is what happens when plots are rushed without full exposure because talksbacks like this one complain about the problems with the pacing, but offered no solution.
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The house fight reminded me of the only good fight scene in X-Men 3, they did good. Nathan's green screen flying gets a pass because HEROES finally put the budget in some superpower smackdown.
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It's only 748p in Cali... can't wait. oh and HATERS: SUCK IT!!! Stop watching! GO watch a shitty movie on SciFi Channel.
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Not all shows can be like LOST...
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I think that the whole "immortality" thing does have to have a limit, and getting buried alive for weeks if not months and coming out snarling "You sonofa -- " is a bit much.
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Peter can already absorb powers, and rather more efficiently than Sylar.
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But it still needs to do better. The problem is the show doesn't want to get rid of any characters. Ali Larter and Parkman are unnecessary. Parkman is in the desert following a turtle. I'm sure they could fill that time with something and someone more interesting than that.
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Nathan being President after only having been Senator four years. Now seriously, do the producers actually think Americans are that stupid?
*runs* -
scrunched up her moon face and tried to act badass
It was unintentially funny -
Because Peter is an idiot who can't figure things out on his own. Sylar's power is about figuring things out; he just uses it predominantly to read brains. But he can also use it to put together watches, etc. It's not about Peter gaining powers; it's about him putting 2+2 together and getting Jello.
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that I do like what they're doing with Mohinder.
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Reptile or bug?...
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he wasnt trying to steal the power of absorbing the ability. they have a convo that explicitly states he is needs sylar's power of fixing things. the way sylaw can look at watches and peoples brains to get there power thas what peter needs. Peter needs to figure out how to put things together to fix them
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Yuck! Heroes went from a promising new show to utter crap in just 2 seasons! I refuse to watch this debacle of a show and support Kring anymore!
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Sylar go boom... awesome. Wonder if we'll ever find out who the mother was?
So I guess Mohinder turns into the bug man coo coo ka choo. -
It has to be Sylar, right? He's so pissed off at everybody he uses Banshee's power to rip apart the Earth?
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"Because Peter is an idiot who can't figure things out on his own."
That line is filled with awesome. -
Peter didnt need sylar's permission, he just needed help understanding the power. same was with the invisible guy(was his name Claude, i feel like his name was claude.)And FWIW Herc, i stopped watching last season after the second episode, but i think this season has been good and tonights episode got better.
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It's been established in the past that just having the ability doesn't mean that Peter knows how to use it. He needed Sylar to basically explain to him what it was in order for him to benefit from it.
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Also, top ten tb in just over 30 minutes. Just saying.
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sylar can see how something works, and then he can fix it need be. Peter needs to fix the timelines, needed to see what was wrong with it first.
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yes, quite the twist!
meh, I say. -
I think that Peter needed Sylar's power for more than just the obvious reason. Remember, Sylar's power isn't just about duplicating a power. It's also about understanding how it works to its fullest. That's why even Sylar knew more about Claire than she did herself.
Peter's power is about duping too, but more on an intuitive level. There's no understanding there. Peter's just a hapless emo schmuck with no sense of just how powerful he really is.
I suspect that Peter's more intuitive absorption power, combine with Sylar's insight ability might enable him to be the single most powerful being on the planet. Right now, he's got the powers, but no instruction manual. Like the Greatest American Hero. =) He's potentially the greatest deus ex machina around, which is probably what they're hoping will save the future.
BTW: WTH happened to Sylar in the future? I know that he used radioactive Ted's powers and blew up, taking Peter & Claire with him. However, they both clearly survived and he already has Claire's invulnerability/immortality power too. I sincerely doubt that he died in the explosion, as Peter survived the same thing in Season 1. Was that him tied up on the table next to Peter? I forgot to DVR it. -
The important thing happens halfway through the episode. You didn't watch the whole thing, did you?
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Sylar wasn't there, I imagine he got out while Claire was still recovering.
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That's actually an interesting point you bring up. Not to get all wank-tastic up in this, but is it really AICN's responsibility to talk about something because it's popular among the geek demographic? Although the site's had its share of controversy over the years, I always saw its origins as a sort of "Notes from the Underground" thing, rebelling against how Hollywood/the entertainment industry treated genre fans. With that I feel like there has to be a little bit of tastemaking on the part of Harry, Herc, the other editors, to accept or reject what we're given... but who knows?
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because I was giggling every ten minutes - the iPod muse of future fingerpainting, Slyar's glasses (They killed a dog! They killed a kid wearing pyjamas! HA!) , Peter's Stallone mouth, Ms. frozen britches "suicide" attempt, and Parkman's kitty cat face.
Probably not what they were going for but I'd personally rather have an episode that makes me laugh, more than one that makes me cringe. -
quick moving scene. kinda missed that.
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This was it. That episode was filled with terrible. The whole season so far was filled with terrible. How many tangental timelines and post apocalyptic futures are there? Fuck that show! I am out...Heroes' fall from grace was quick and very painful.
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the ending was a let down because well the hiro character has been a letdown since season 1 since the writers still write him as an idiot who doesnt learn anything but the rest of the episode rocked
chuck was excellent too how come no chuck talkback -
why wouldn't he have absorbed Sylar's "fixing power" then?
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Every week, Herc posts a page of links to Amazon.com TV-on-DVD. He doesn't do this out of altruism, but because it helps bring in the Alighty Ollar. During the writer's strike, they still kept posting links to DVDs even though that meant the writer's would get the pre-resolution percentages. The site -- especially Coaxial -- is about making money. So why *wouldn't* you post a talkback to a show that drives page hits?
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Having a power and being able to use it are two different things. He needed instruction.
*Tomahh's excellent analogy. -
between absorbing the power, and knowing how to use it.
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He said it best so far.
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his power worked first. Similar to when Claude showed Pete how to use his powers in the first season. Sylar's power is more than absorbing powers. Peter needs to see how the pieces fit together like the pieces of a watch, in order to figure out how to "fix" the world. Although unexpectedly Peter didn't just get Sylar's strengths, he got his weakness too.
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im fairly new to aintitcool but once they started going to major set visits and accepting free trips on a studios dollar dont u stop being underground and start being commmercial mainstream however u wanna put it. and im not saying this in a bad way at the end of the day its all about survival and living the best life possible cuz it only happens once but this site is no longer serving a niche market since the geek/nerd whatever is mainstream accepted so everything that is considred cool should be covered
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When the Haitian was there.
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Just because he has a power doesn't mean he knows how to use it. Who knows how many powers he actually has that he doesn't know about. Sylar had to explain to Peter how to use his power since Peter doesn't instinctively know.
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Dammit. Bedtime, peeps. Save Mr Muggles, Save the World.
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Doncha leave no child behind!
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But still a pale shadow how good season 1 showed the series could be. Unfortunately, I think they've fucked up the entire concept way too much to be able to save it now.
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If you're going to ask 20 questions about a show you think "sucks", at least pay attention when they are airing. Pretty much every single question you've asked has been answered during the show's run...infact, some have even been spelled out this season (Like Peter not knowing wtf his powers necessarily are or how to use them properly).
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bring back Charlie (wikigirl) and Eden.
They were both cuties -
The writer strike happened and almost every show sucked...get over it.. we get a do over. Imagine season 2 never happened.
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That's it, I'm done. I've crossed the FTS threshold and I'm reclaiming this hour of my week. I almost bailed 20 minutes in when they had the one-two thud of Brundlehinder and Tony Randall Sylar, but decided to gut it out. However, I noticed I was surfing the web while the show was on and even a big nuclear explosion didn't grab me.
The plotting is more random than intriguing; the performances are getting worse, if that's possible, with Clair Bear about as threatening that name would indicate and Stallone Jr's screwface "acting" is laughable; I don't give a sh*t about Hiro and Porkman or the other 15,000 characters. Unlike Lost, which had to dig out of a sophomore slump that ran into its 3rd season, I don't see Heroes pulling out of its death spiral.
5000 G. -
It's worth a shot.
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It was a great episode. Fast paced, lots of action. Heroes became villians, villains became heroes.
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I was starting to lose interest in the show too. I was going to give it a week or two more. Tonight's ep turned it right around for me. Hit all the right notes, and the sequence at Sylar's house may have been the second best sequence in Heroes history (after the final part of Ep 11 -- aka Eden's death and Peter's vision).
Were there problems? Yeah. Nate's flying did suck. Nate did save Ali Larter (Boooo). I caught a 24 and a Kingdom Come vibe (ammo for the 'Heroes steals all their plotlines' folks).
But compared to last season and the season so far, this ep has given me hope that tptb have finally figured out what made the show so good in the first season. It's given me hope.
Of course, next week's ep might suck. But I'm feeling a lot better about it than I did 3 hours ago. -
Oct 06, 2008 10:26:52 PM CDT
Heroes STOLE the whole Shuresh ( is that his name)storyline..
by darthmrbelvedere
from "The Fly". WTF! This show REALLY blows...Lost rocks!
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Made sense to me. I would have preferred if an entire episode were dedicated to this, so we could really understand the Sylar process. Fixing the watch was a pretty cool test for Sylar's real ability, and maybe now we might start to see him emerge as a genuine character, and not just a dark version of Peter, assimilating powers in a messier way. If Sylar's power is understanding things, maybe he's the ideal candidate for a master planner behind the scenes. All he has to do is snatch up Hiro's brains in one episode, and he can very easily become the series' master villain, manipulating things behind the scenes from the beginning.
Granted, this would be pretty cheap, but efficient. -
...Sylar going boom was pretty nifty, but poorly handled...like a lot of things on this show. (Still better than the majority of the last few years of Smallville though.)
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And steal his brains... that would end the show rather quickly too...
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the wrose part about season 2 was the strike. if anyone here has seen the extras from the dvd set it seems that they were gonna take season 2 somewhere pretty kool with the virus getting out and having the spanish girl's whose name escapes me being the cure which actually gave her an arc. and then doing the villains that had alot of promise but the strike killed that whole thing so now season 2 looks horrible but damn what could of been
anyone seen chuck? -
Yep, they've crossed the event horizon of suck and there's no turning it arround (imho)
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Yeah, Nate's flying effects aren't looking as good as they did in season one.
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Oct 06, 2008 10:34:20 PM CDT
In Europe and America there's a growing feeling of Hysteria...
by darthmrbelvedere
...conditioned to respond to all the threats of the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets. Mr. Khrushchev says we will bury you, I don't subscribe to this point of view...You guys remember that song? How awesome was that Sting album!
There, you didn't TOTALLY waste yer time reading a Heroes talkback...ps-can't WAIT till LOST comes back! -
so is suresh "devolving" into a cockroach?, maybe even with a time traveling ability. could explain a lot-or at least why there is always this cockroach crawling around at the end of some episodes. maybe not the sticky hands though.
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We see a POV looking down at their feet as the ground rushes up, and then a waist-high shot of them as they land. Laaaaaaaaame.
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just terrible. it's like they're flaunting the fact that they don't give a shit about their own internal logic or continuity. heroes is complete shit.
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Oct 06, 2008 10:40:35 PM CDT
HEY mighty BRONTOsaurus, don't you have a lesson for us...
by darthmrbelvedere
...don't you have a lesson for us. Thought your rule would always last...if we explode the ATOM bomb, would you say that we were dumb, we're walking in your FOOTsteps...Damn, that was an awesome song too! Yeah, this Heroes has to be put out of it's misery
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..appears to be Clair
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Oct 06, 2008 10:46:10 PM CDT
Can we all join hands, and turn this into a LOST talkback? That
by darthmrbelvedere
Season 5 will own ALL of television! Okay, Entourage is pretty good...but LOST is as close as you can get to Genius tv.
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have had a goatee?
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Oct 06, 2008 10:49:39 PM CDT
"Pretty much every question you've asked has been answered"
by hercules
No, they haven't.
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And so far it's delivering on it's promises. The heroes are being challenged to make tough decisions and pretty soon will have to decide whether to become villians or heroes.
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Oct 06, 2008 10:52:02 PM CDT
Many Heroes actors want to get out of their contracts.
by darthmrbelvedere
Kristen Bell's agent has advised Kristen to "mysteriously contract" the Epstein bar virus on vacation whilst visiting Mexico...oops, can't work on Heroes anymore! Guess she should have taken the Charlotte role on Lost...word yo
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Was it the one about Peter that was answered by several talkbackers? or was it the one about Noah, who wasn't even in this episode?
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That would equal incest, which I'm sure the writers would not go for. I'm thinking maybe Elle... unless she turns into a Petrelli too which is very possible in this show. Hell, I might even be a Petrelli.
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actually if we are to believe that Sylar and Peter are brothers than that would make clair his niece too. chances are sylar's kid is probably elle's if it isnt some character we dont kno yet but prolly doesnt matter since we will never see that future again
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(I'm reposting this from an earlier TB in an effort to encourage others to really look at this show objectively)There's just too much good shit on television for me to waste my time with a show that has consistently insulted my intelligence.The core issue I have with Heroes is that the plot has always driven the characters, instead of the characters driving the plot. Every character keeps making dumb ass decisions, not because it makes sense for that character based on what we've learned about them as a person, but based on the fact the writers need the plot to advance from point "A" to point "B".So, suddenly Suresh is going to forget everything he's learned about the dangers of the blind pursuit of science over the last seasons and just inject himself with that shit? Why? Because the writers needed that puzzle piece to advance their plot. Well, I'm done tolerating that crap. I've removed it from my DVR.
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After Botox injections foreheads get Shiny and waxy looking. Okay, Elizabeth Mitchell from Lost looks like a Restalyne/Botox filled muppet...but she's still a great actress.
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Everything that has happened is poorly handled and mismanaged. They fucked up, that's all there is to it. The first season was okay, it wasn't what people act like it is, but it was okay. Everything since then has been completely retarded, and at this point I don't see how they can fix it. Everything with Peter is so retarded I can barely talk about it.
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thats it for me and this fucking awful show.
was it always this bad?? did the first season just trick me?
Awful on every single level. acting. writing. idea stealing. everything. -
Oct 06, 2008 10:59:43 PM CDT
I feel sorry for the actor playing Nathan Petrelli..
by darthmrbelvedere
What's his name? The dude from "Near Dark"? He's an exceptional actor. Too bad he's locked into this steaming pile of..well...you know;)
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1) Couldn't Peter have found a better way to stop Nathan that shooting him in front of a press conference?
2) Why didn't Peter go back in time to stop Sylar from attacking Claire?
3) If the future can't be changed, why is Manhattan not a smoldering, radioactive crater?
4) If Noah could afford to buy Claire a new SUV, why did he take that minimum-wage job at Kopy Kingdom?
I have many other unanswered questions. They can be found by clicking on that "More On This Topic" button below.
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wtf?
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he just fucks with peoples adrenal gland... so because peter and telekinetically fix a watch all the sudden he can murder his own brother in cold blood??? and can ali larter's characters been any more boring for christ's sake????
the more i think about this show the more it pisses me off.
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Agent Johnson did not find a plot hole in Buffy
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agreed about the ability to poke holes in just about any genre show but don't you think its getting ridiculous in heroes... i'm usually such an apologist for the shows i watch and have great powers of suspension of disbelief...but for god's sake there is no logic, no coherent thread, i just noticed that chrth and penny were going apeshit over this episode in the dexter talkback but i just don't get it...they've got to get there shit together, this volumes are supposed to resemble comic book story arcs but there is nothing to arc this story..heroes?? villains??? who? where? i just see a bunch of people that shit keeps happening too and alternate universes that come in and out of existence...and how did scarface peter (scar???) know all about this future? isn't this the future that he created when he came back from the OTHER future in which heroes were persecuted. so claire goes dark and wants to kill peter in BOTH potential futures... and does anyone else feel sorry for that poor fucking irish chich that is either stuck in some alternate dimension timeline or has ceased to exist depending on your space-time cosmology!!!! sigh.. after all that, i'm a loyalist so i will be sticking it out but for god's sake put more david anders in it before i kill myself, unless of course they fuck up his character next.
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...the reason why the future can't be changed NOW, is most likely due to Mohinder's formula. Remember Adam was said to be the key? My guess he is the first, and only true person with powers and with the constant time jumping, and research that went on, everything, and everyone that has powers are all connected to him through injections or genetic engineering.
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Where did Sylar go after he blew up? Pete didn't die when he went boom. Neither did Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.
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This show has meandered drunkenly into uncontrollable territory. They have set up too many impossible situations and powers. The time travel is the worst, they never set up rules for their universe and now it's just all over the place. It's ugly and not fixable.
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to asnwer question 4, the same reason any spy or cia or undercover agent takes a weird job to hide who they really are a cover. Same reason Sarah works at the orange orange and the wienerlicious before that (yes cheap Chuck reference show was damn funny tonight)
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u r correct good sir. Mohinder's serum obviously doesnt work correctly and it seems they are gonna reveal if it isnt considered revealed already that half the heroes were born that way and half were created and that is probaly cuz of papa petrelli and that formula is what causes the future
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Sarah took those jobs to keep an eye on Chuck. Chuck isn't in Heroes.
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1. "It's just a TV show. Ignore the plot holes and meandering narratives. If you enjoy it for an hour, then it is a success. Watch it an go on with your day"
Analagous with: Sarah Palin is a fucking moron. She did not fall flat on her face, nor did she run out crying during the debates. Despite her empty rhetoric, she won.
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this show after the premiere of season two. I understand that the shows has tons of plotholes form what I hear and I'm definitely hearing all the explanations from fans of the show but it just seems to confusing and convoluted. And it's funny when Heroes fans bring up and put down Lost when that is a far superior show. Lost may have had its bad moments but it's still a great fucking show with a great mythology that I feel will perfectly make sense in the end. But above all else, it has characters that I actually care about. I enjoyed Heroes first season but aside from Hiro and Ando I didn't carte about anyone else. You don't even get a sense of who these people are. What makes them tick. So, I ask all you Heroes fanatics. Is there one character on this show that you'd care if the died? And be honest, please.
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i know that it was jus to illustrate my point people in who need to be undercover take weird jobs as a cover in every type of genre show so why it is a plot hole on heroes but not on any other show
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If I wanted to sit down and enjoy a show for an hour I'd watch some reality show. If I have a show like Heroes, I want intriguing story arcs and I want shit to tie together.
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Outraces a nu-cu-ler explosion, shows up at her apartment, falls into husband Matt Parkman's arms, moans "I wasn't fast enough" and reveals that her entire back has been charred off, then collapses and dies. Seriously, that would be a majorly cool moment in any superhero comic from any publisher, and by Heroes standards that was a season one way-awesome moment on a par with Claire waking up and discovering the front of her torso has been removed. Not. Fast. Enough. Jeebus!
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really fucking big holes. And to all those who keep with the all shows have plot holes rhetoric please shut up. All shows have some holes, this one can drive a bus through them and continually contradicts it's own rules to further it's rather boring story. My advice, get rid of a lot of characters, focus on a few. Kring has become like George Lucas, a poison to his product. Get out of the way and let others handle this shit. It just amazes me how bad this show has gotten, I pretty much watch it now just to see how out of control they will let it get.
P.S. Can Claire, Hiro, Speedster, Nikki, Tracey, Barbara Triplett get any more annoying and gay? For the love of God Kring, kill off some fucking characters you douche. -
i am a fan of both heroes and lost prolly a bigger fan of lost as my name here is kinda based on lost as i made it while watchin the constant but ur as for as caring about the characters you're are probably more than ryt. there a bunch of characters i like and if they died id would be frustrated unless their death was actually written well (unlike DL's ) but not like lost where if sawyer died i actually be pissed
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What could possibly be worse than a talkback full of h8ters?How about if the guy hosting the article turns into a f*cking troll?
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but I hated that there were so many characters who I didn't care about and hated having to sit through they're stories. Nikki and Mica and DL , Matt Parkman and season two brought Mia and her brother. Just two many storylines that I didn't care for. I gave yp because the show gave me no reason to watch.
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There i a place for a Heroes talkback. I don't see why they can't just make generic talkbacks each week for all kinds of shows so people can come to this site and discuss things. Makes sense to me.
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That scene with Nathan flying was so funny when he zipped off the screen I spit up my drink all over. Funny fucking shit.
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My goodness, chrth! What have you gotten yourself into?!I don't watch the HEROES but this TB is hysterical.
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just saying... also, why's that black spanish chick all of a sudden the typical girlfriend to Mohinder's Jekyll? how diappointing was that? show needs to trim down and streamline, off some characters, keep the storylines to single digits. Larter is dead weight, never been relevant to this show. also, to the nitwit who compared this to comics, Hey man, the really good comics make sense and have coherant storylines and plausible plots. Someone kidnap Geoff Johns to write this sucker.
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Who saw Shirley Manson go all "deep throat" on that guy? Gruesome stuff. P.S. Heroes is still a lot of fun. Forget the haters.
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I finally dropped this show when one of the sub-plots involved the mulatto kid's cousin trying to recover some stolen comic books.
Doesn't sound like it's improved much since. -
Sure, there are holes. Sure, there are better shows on tv. But I choose to watch this one on Mondays at 9'o'clock. If it was a choice between this show and a show I actually cared about, Heroes would get the ax. Until then, I'm watching the "Pete and Sylar Show."
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Ando is my favorite character from the show. Hiro is a shitty character without him. I wish they'd killed everybody off and then we could have "The Ando Hour." It was not to be, apparently.
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now that he has and can control sylar's power, he is the blue man from watchmen - a God but completely fucking useless for our purposes. and claire is now annoying, but in an entirely different way. the gun makes sense if she is teamed up with the haitian...but she still sucks and doesnt that make her completely vulnerable? The most interesting people are the ones without powers(Ando and Noah), which makes the show frustrating to watch...BAH!
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Screw you haters! This was good!
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they do. in The Zone.
Is Herc's column the only part of AICN you read?
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I have better things to do with my time than waste an hour on this crap. I liked season 1 (until the lame finale), was willing to chalk season 2's lameness to the writer's strike...but this is just plain bad. Oh, well...an extra hour for me.
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i just read whats on the main page?
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Thanks for posting the talkback, even though you aren't that into Heroes.
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Between Oct 2 & 6, after the "Heroes Schmeroes" talkback fell off the front page and no one else was posting there, I posted a series of "variation on a theme" mocking the "everybody who dies on this show is revived" cliche that's repeatedly been disproven with a dozen examples of dead characters who stayed dead. Since it's unlikely anyone went there and saw them, I'll repost it here in an attempt to lighten the mood of the haters and the tone of the discourse. enjoy._Everybody that dyes on this showchanges color.Everybody that diets on this showloses weight.Everybody that dines on this showgets to keep the salad fork.Everybody that Dianetics on this showis a kook.Everybody that's Diana on this showis either a dead princess or Wonder Woman. What, not soon enough?Everybody that Dial-up's on this showshould switch to high speed cable for the faster download times.Everybody that dials on this showgets a wrong number.Everybody that dices on this showrolls a seven.Everybody that diametrically opposes someone...else on this show is, by definition, their arch enemy.Everybody that digs on this showis really far out and groovy.Everybody that disses on this showposts to the AICN talkback.
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Are you willing to listen Herc
1) Couldn't Peter have found a better way to stop Nathan that shooting him in front of a press conference?"
Future Peter, as has been established, is not an expert in time travel. He's made a LOT of mistakes. Hiro would have never tried to do something like that cause he learned his lessons.
"2) Why didn't Peter go back in time to stop Sylar from attacking Claire?"
As explained in the same episode, there is somehting called the butterfly effect. Everytime you go back in time, you screw it up. Peter realized he totally was mucking things up. Time Travel is not an easy answer in the Heroes world.
"3) If the future can't be changed, why is Manhattan not a smoldering, radioactive crater?"
As per episode-Future Peter already screwed up the timeline for Matt and his future wife. As already established in the series-things change: Not always for the better.
"4) If Noah could afford to buy Claire a new SUV, why did he take that minimum-wage job at Kopy Kingdom?"
That's a second season question: He had money saved up for when he had to run.
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The mind will react (a bit) differently depending on the medium. So something that might have worked in the comics may not necessarily work on TV. We're more likely to be (a bit more) accepting/forgiving of comics because we're viewing something that is clearly not real (pen and ink, small color palette, static images, reading thought bubbles, exaggerated physiques, onomatopoeia etc) vs a live action flesh and blood TV show which our mind can better relate to. So as an example Micah interacting with computers might be cool if viewed in a comic book but seeing the kid act it out (horribly) makes it seem silly. Or wearing tights works fine in the comics but not in a live action format etc. Reading comics also only uses one of our senses spent processing static images of points in time of a story so there's far less information that's processed from the process of reading and we're more likely to "skim through" the story. The mind will also "fill in the gaps" left in between panels and automatically associate objects in the comics to things in the real world as necessary. The other argument I often read in these TB's is about plot holes in Heroes vs plot holes in other shows. One plot hole now and then is normal and forgivable. But multiple plot holes in a single episode which cause the brain to balk each time is an issue. Plus, Heroes' plot holes tend to be far too blatantly obvious. The aggravation with Heroes' plot holes becomes amplified because they are only part of a larger problem stemming from bad writing leading to bad dialog, bad acting, lame stories etc. Most of the issues people have with Heroes should be fixed with a new creative head leading better writers.
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My biggest gripe is that Heroes only has ONE WAY to create urgency and to start a storyline, and that is to send a character (or hell, all of your characters) into the future and have them miraculously view what happens (which is always a HUGE catastrophic event). Why not actually have something happen in the present and have our heroes react to it? Why not try to figure it out using your BRAIN rather than getting lucky and randomly seeing what happens (Hiro in all seasons, Peter in S2)? I DON'T GIVE A SHIT what happens in the future, because we all know its going to change. To me thats one possible future out of an infinite number of possible futures. Gahhh time travel is just way too fucking complicated for a unintelligent show like Heroes to take on. Ok, Sorry...end rant.
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Anyone notice the stupidly huge error with Mohinder's tape recorder? They do a fancy CG shot of Mohinder's tape recorder collecting dust, after he puts it down on a table, for four years. Likelihood of it not moving for four years when the rest of his place was trashed in the future? Unlikely. But when we're back in the present, a few hours from when he originally set it down, he's holding and using it again! I guess that makes the future not very certain, making everything taking place in the future kinda meaningless since it could apparently easily change.
I'm nitpicking, but it's something that hugely bothered me and my friends watching it. Heroes sucks so much now. I think I only keep watching it just to painfully deconstruct it.
Keep asking those questions, Herc. -
You say "Time travel is not an easy answer in the Heroes world." Unless the question is this: "What device do the writers use to dig themselves into a hole, but won't use to get themselves out of it?"
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It's a good episode in LOST if it is Locke-centric, Desmond-centric, or Ben-centric.
It is a good episode in HEROES if the majority of the episode is spent in the future. Apart from that, the other episodes seem rather bland. -
We come to the talkbacks (or at least I do) because we used to be really into Heroes and its been sad to watch it simply recycle stories, add characters (while neglecting to develop the ones they already have) and use storytelling that just doesn't make sense. Its like watching your favorite aunt become senile. You don't really like being around her anymore but you still feel like you should spend time with her.
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Wassss a man!!!"Tim Kring: I've never seen G.I. Joe: The Movie, what are you talking about??
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Oct 07, 2008 12:56:22 AM CDT
And I didn't need Sylar's fucking ability to understand that...
by pirateemery
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The thing is the series has been establishing the "rules" of time travel throughout the series. (They don't reveal everything at once) Time Travel is possible in the Heroes universe. Rule 1 You cannot change the past to your desired result easily. (established first season by Future Hiro)
Responsible use of time travel is to 1) Find out information from the past. 2)Look to the future to see potential problems.
If you need to change the past-you need to use the people in that timeline. (hinted at first and second season-established firmly by Mama Petreli in the third.
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Woo...
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the most interesting thing about "Heroes" now is that it's developing the same flaws as most good or great comic books. No overall arcing of story or character - instead we get a lot of new characters and the new scenes of the old characters don't build at all on what's gone before. I won't pretend I can or would even care to follow all the threads on "Heroes" since the 2nd season was a tremendous bore, but I think it's worth looking back on what the 1st season did so well --- it was the best crafted and best FX integrated series in history in theh superhero genre. Powers and abilities were trotted out verrrrry slowly and treated like the miracles they would actually be. The slow reveal, filmmakers call it. Anticipation. And the 1st time Nathan flew or Hiro shifted, it was pretty interesting and done very well. But now they're ruining and reruining it and here's how:
1) Too many characters / too many powers. Takes away the specialness of it and loses a lot of focus, too many characters to track. Really -- losing the miracle of the "Marvels" was a very bad thing for this show.
2) Time travel / healing / immortality - they should stop using these elements all together and close these holes to allow at least some narrative cohesion, scenes should happen that can't simply be reversed a minute later (this is probably the single worst part of the show and has given us all this lazy writing). It's such a crushing bore when nothing means anything.
3) Kring has designed it to be a pastiche of all the great comicdom story lines of the last 30 years - Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne's X-Men "Days Of Future Past" and Cronenburg/ Charles Edwar Pogue's brilliant "The Fly" and many others. I appreciate the respect but ... we all know these stories so Kring and co are not staying ahead of teh audience with these ... not at all.
4) This season has no overarcing story / tension / villain except ... the future ... and the heroes become the villains and the villains ... uch, I'm bored typing it. Again, even if that were good (it's not) the time travel et al would do it in. Simplicity, Kring and co. Not more hot actors.
BTW, Charles Edward Pogue's "The Fly" is probably the best superhero script ever written, albeit nominally for the horror genre. It has been emulated endlessly and never close to touched. A true work of art.
I guess that's enough. I pulled for "Heroes" when it came on. It was ambitious. Like "The Fly" and "Unbreakable" it took its material seriously. For awhile. And then the writer's strike and schedules and god knows what else ran it down I guess. I am the audience for this show and I don't know how much longer I'll watch without that respect from the 1st season and that slow, simple narrative cohesion any good story needs. -
Just watch "No Heroics" instead. They "get" it. Gotta love the Brits.
I think it may be the end of the line for Heroes for me. I gave them a few chances but continue to get let down. It has a GREAT premise that has been bogged down since the end of season 1. Now we are in season 3 and the main theme is "Save the World"? Really?? Again?? They need to have a REAL showdown between Sylar and Peter where they end up killing each other. That way, no more overly super powered people. For a season called "Villains" we haven't really seen much of them aside from a bank robbery and a "future" story. And is it just me or is 4 years too short a time to go all evil? I could see maybe 10. But 4? I give up.
Thank God there's Supernatural (pun intended). I LOVE that show. -
When they met in season 2 where the Haitian wiped his mind.
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Whatever happened to Peter's Irish girl? I just remember her getting stranded in the "Virus" future, and he now has seemed to have forgotten all about her.
Did she automatically get sent to the new future when that one was diverted? Did she cease to exist since she was from the present and the reality she was stuck in was changed? Is there a reason Peter seems to forget that he left a chick he had the hots for stranded in an alternate universe? -
to answer ur question simplu because of the strike her whole story was dropped and probably will never be piked up again so choose whatever answer makes u happy
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Honestly, I really haven't cared about all of the complaints from people who don't like the show any more. I forgave season 2 for sucking because it was cut in half and therefore rushed. I like season 3 so far, but seriously, dropping a character off in an alternate future and then just forgetting all about her without even a throwaway line in the script to show they wont be revisiting it (like Peter talking about why time travel is dangerous and refering to the fact that he "lost" someone in time) that's just sloppy, irresponsible storytelling. It's beyond a plothole, it's "let's pretend our audience is to dumb to remember this ever happened"
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Nope... Peter's ability is empathic mimicry. This would be suppressed were the Haitian around. There is no way that Peter can get the Haitian's ability as he has to have witnessed it in order to use it.
Sylar, on the other hand, can knock out the Haitian and then steal his ability, as he only needs to get access to the brain. -
1.) Present-day Peter travels back in time to right before 2007 Peter and Irish Girl travel into the future, turns invisible (he has that power) so he doesn't disturb the timeline, and grabs ahold of 2007 Peter and Irish Girl (their clothes or something they won't notice) so he travels into the alternate future with them (it must still exist at that point, or this never happened at all). 2.) Let 2007 Peter and Irish Girl do their thing without disturbing the established history. 3.) Teleport to where Irish Girl is (he must have some people-tracking power at this point), grab her, turn her invisible and tell her to shush up so as not to disturb history, and then again hitch a ride with 2007 Peter back to 2007. 4.) Now safely in 2007 with Irish Girl, go forward in the current timeline to the present-day.
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All the Heroes receiving temptation into villiany.
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he just can't access them. Some work subconsciously (healing, flying, dreams) some he has to learn from others (invisibility, Sylar's understanding, time travel). They don't just kick in when needed. I don't see what's so hard to understand.
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and then watching it out of my peripheral while I do something else a bit more productive... like read talkbacks. "Heroes" has pretty much lost me as a focused viewer. I can barely follow the plot when I DO pay explicit attention.
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I agree. It is necessary to watch AND pay attention. Nothing against anyone here at all, but the Haitian was there when Claire shot Peter. No powers typically means dead if you're indestructible in the Heroes universe.
However, this begs the question... why is the Haitian still alive after all that time?
And I agree, the ending was not a WOAH moment at all. What made this one good was pretty much everything that led up to it. But instead of being snarky, I'm going to directly answer a few of those questions from earlier.
1) Couldn't Peter have found a better way to stop Nathan that shooting him in front of a press conference?
Yes. Better for TV? Not sure. Probably. But we already know that most of last season's choices were B A D ! !
2) Why didn't Peter go back in time to stop Sylar from attacking Claire?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but which Peter are we talking about? If Sylar is known to be needed later on, why would Peter stop his ally from gaining powers he will need to "save the world"? And did present Peter have a way to do so at the time he was aware of it? I seem to recall he was busy somewhere.
3) If the future can't be changed, why is Manhattan not a smoldering, radioactive crater?
Because they were wrong? Is anyone an expert yet? Honest question, has an expert been established on the show? Hiro's been to the future, Peter has. Do they know the future can't be changed? Or are they just saying that because screwing with it just seems to lead to another similar disaster of equal horror? Remember exasperated, loner Hiro with all the string timelines from the future?
4) If Noah could afford to buy Claire a new SUV, why did he take that minimum-wage job at Kopy Kingdom?
Cover? Normal life? Try not to stick out? I thought it was effective in the sense that it made it very clear his choice of profession was something he must enjoy on some level. Or at least had grown accustomed to on such a level that made it nearly impossible for him to fit into normal society.
And the flying effects in this one WERE kinda hokey. Everything else was top notch. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Heroes is back.
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I don't think anyone's asked yet about the one thing that really stuck out as silly to me... Hiro teleported Adam INTO that coffin, why did he have to DIG him back out?
Also, TBer Lukecash stated "Time travel is not an easy answer in the Heroes World"...unless you're the writers? That's their answer to EVERYTHING! -
I fell asleep half way this one. Seriously. Maybe it's the repetitive score (no I don't care who you used to open for), or the many dumb-even-for-TV-shows characters. How many nuclear explosions does it take before one no longer gives a crap?
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It sure seems to be fucking Prison Break in the ass when it comes to ratings, Huh...
Fucking a prison show in the ass..........
You can't make this stuff up folks...... -
If you don't think that episode kicked unholy ass, stop watching the program now. End of.
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Yeah, I think they took that in a new direction considering Mohinder was still alive four years into the future.
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Yeah, there are plot holes, but I'm watching a fucking tv show to be entertained ... not to develope a comprehensive legal argument. And this episode entertained. They upped the action, threw in some plot twists, and added a dark element that suits the show well. I hope it continues.
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Are both correct in my opinion. This is how was entertaining. Not sure also, when anyone can "realistically" fly. I think you may be nit picking a little there.
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Didn't Sylar lose all of his powers except for Intuitive Aptitude and Telekinesis due to the virus from season 2? But now in the future, he has them back... but still gets thrown around the room by the bad guys. Ok, well I guess we can assume that in the present, he will eventually regain all of the powers he lost? Also, how did the fear eating guy survive the nuclear explosion? And you can just kill peter while the Hatian is around? He wouldn't just come back alive as soon as the Hatian left the room?Last night's episode was entertaining, but they can seriously drop Parkman and Ali Larter's storylines.
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I wish I had a mind erase power to forget this show. -
Some more random thoughts:
I absolutely love the crack in the Earth being the Kensei symbol
Sylar would definitely survive that explosion, just like Peter did
Talkbacker ChrTh says We Should Have a Supernatural Talkback!
I mean, I don't watch it, but it's obviously popular enough that people want one. You never hear anyone say "I can't wait for the Pushing Daisies talkback!"
MNG: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and rounnnnnnnd -
It's interesting for a character who didn't appear in the episode at all, his fingerprints were everywhere. Claire's attitude, "Noah" ... I wonder what happened to him? Sacrificed himself for Sylar?
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Where are Nathan's wife and children? I must have missed that while accidently dozing off last season.
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...on all things superhero (which most of you claim you are in every comic or hero movie you write about) you guys sure don't get what's going on or why.
Reading these talkbacks are like reading stuff from someone who has no idea what a superhero is.
"Somebody just told me Peter conveniently lost his healing ability when Claire shot him?"
About that, the reason he gets shot by Claire is because Peter was surprised. Peter (As explaining in Season 1 and again in Season 2) needs to THINK about the power he is going to use. Peter isn't invulnerable naturally.
Pretty lame not to figure that out. -
Why was Clairebear torturing Peter? Just for kicks? Missed that too.
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HRG being dead is the only thing I can think of to make Claire such a bitch.
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I enjoy Heroes put the time travel thing does raise some problems. With Peter jumping back and forth in time wouldn't he constantly be running into another version of himself. Meaning, there is n't just one Peter from 4 years in the future. If you jump to 10/7/2012 at 8:33 and 10 seconds you would find Peter at that time. If he leaves, then comes back to the future he would have to come back at the same exact second or he would come across Peter from 10/7/2012 at 8:33 and 15 seconds. My point is there is more than just a Future Peter and a Present Peter. If your still confused think about the second Austin powers movie. Austin went back in time and met Austin from ten minutes ago. Why isn't Peter meeting Peter from four years and 10 seconds from now and Peter from four years and 15 seconds from now. I'm confused.
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I've fallen asleep while watching this show. I'd say that I slept through the kick-ass part , but I woke up and re-wound the DVR so I didn't miss anything.
Maybe I just have a different meaning of kick ass. -
Oct 07, 2008 7:43:04 AM CDT
"If your still confused think about the second Austin powers mov
by chrth
Um, didn't Basil Exposition tell us not to worry about it?
But seriously, no he wouldn't. Peter leaves at 10am and comes back at 11am. There's no Peter between 10am and 11am.
Now, if Peter leaves at 10am, comes back at 9am, and stops the 10am from leaving, yes, then there's an extra one. Or if the 10am one comes back at 11am, then there will be two Peters from 11am onward.
As long as Peter never comes back before he leaves, he won't duplicate himself. -
I think peter wanted sylars power because future peter stated he needed sylar. What happened was that peter thought oh that means his ability when I think it really means sylar as in get him to befriend you.
Remember peter is dumb and always picks the wrong way of doing things. -
Remember sylar got claires healing ability so her healing ability got him his powers back. Come on heroes isn't that difficult to follow.
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Peter had it, but didn't know how to use it. Or why he would use it, considering he has a way to get abilities. It took Future Peter and Future Gabriel for Peter to realise that Sylar's root ability would allow him to figure out the logistics of how to properly use his abilities. With Intuitive Aptitude, Peter can master time-travel to the extent where he won't cause future Butterfly Effects... in theory,
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No, Peter does not need to "think" about the power he is going to use. Not the healing ability anyway. Claire doesn't. Peter doesn't. We were shown this when in season 1, Sylar killed Peter with shards of glass. Once these shards were removed from Peter's head, he regenerated.
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In the present? Is there some kind of delay with Claire's healing when it comes to powers? Sylar should have all of those crazy powers from season 1 right now...
One thing that did tick me off last night was how much trouble Peter and Sylar were having with the 3 that showed up at Sylar's house in the future. Telekinesis alone (which both Sylar AND Peter have) should have been able to subdue them. But the story didn't call for them to use their powers in a smart way, so they didn't. Not to mention PETER CAN STOP TIME.... AAAGHH.... still, I was entertained and enjoyed the episode, but there hasn't been an episode of Heroes in a long time that hasn't been groan inducing. -
Gabriel didn't want to use any abilities in front of his son. They set that up. It's likely that he figured if Peter left, he wouldn't have to use any of the abilities. Peter thought he could talk Claire down. When he couldn't, he hit her, and was caught off guard by Daphne. Now he could've stopped time, but Gabriel would've been affected to - and Peter wasn't finished there. TK wise, Daphne was moving way too fricking fast for Peter to get a lock on her.
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..."it" being why people don't like this show. I guess it's just a personal taste thing, and I can respect that. But still watching it, that's just plain weird when you don't like it.
They wouldn't run into themselves a: if they didn't want to, and b: if they jump into the time after future Peter jumped back. or to think of it another way, maybe the time travel power has a paradox correction thing, like the universal time code's doom field. Clearly there is a doom thing going on, since no matter what they correct using time travel, it just makes the future worse and worse. I mean first it was 0.07%, then it was 97% (if memory serves), and now it's the whole planet. I would think after they fix it, it's just going to escalate again, until Hiro and Peter actually get their power under proper control. The Sylar thing should help Peter in that regard, but not Hiro yet. -
I always get the sense that a bunch of things will happen. 1) Nathan becomes President. 2) There's an explosion. 3) The supers are, to a degree, hunted and experimented on. It's just the specifics that change.
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I mean, his power is just to negate the power of other heroes. It's not like he actually *does* anything. what did they do, expose the entire Island of Haiti to superhero powers and see which one among them resisted the powers?
On a related note, you'd think sometime in the next five years someone would have just tried to shoot the Hatian and kill him, I mean, he has no resistence to bullets, as far as I'm aware. -
They did two Graphic Novels about his origins. In short, his Father had an ability and it corrupted him... Thompson found The Haitian, brought him to America.
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Seriously, watch No Heroics. For those who don't like Heroes you'll finally have some credible (and really quite funny) superheros in real-life schtick on TV again, and if you do like Heroes, well, this is just better. 'k.
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Come one people, the reason future Peter is dead from the gun shot is Peter got his healing power from Clair and her healing power works unless the brain in involved.
Remember the stick in season one?
That is why she said a bullet to the back of the head would kill him.
I caught that and I have only watched the show on and off since it started... -
That was easily the worst episode to date. Yes, they're showing more powers (albeit with worse CGI), but the story is getting exponentially dumber as time goes on. I watch television to relax, but this show is only reminding me how everything is crumbling down around us, in all areas of society. It's actually gotten worse than Smallville, which I never thought possible.
I remember when I forgave the show for not killing off Sylar, cause he was such a cool character. Now I wish they had since they've made him such a goof. The Parkman story is fucking unbearable! Nathan finding God is un-fucking-bearable too. Why the fuck didn't Peter stop time when his nephew was taken hostage? Oh yeah, then they couldn't have their neat explosion. All of the future crap was so heavily contrived that I was actually yelling at the TV set.
I keep hoping that this show can pull its ass out of the fire like Lost did in S4. But I'm thinking now that it's unfixable. And there's definitely no hope for it unless NBC fires ALL the writers in a last ditch attempt to rescue it (can't they hire one person to monitor the boards). There is nowhere to go but up at this point. Any other writers will likely be better so they have nothing to lose by shaking things up. This is shaping up to be the worst TV season for every show I've watched so far (Entourage aside - that actually made a comeback, surprisingly enough). -
Also, if The Haitian is there when Peter is shot he can't heal. At all. So he dies. End of.
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If this was a good episode then I have watched the wrong show. Plot holes man, plot holes. Do the writers think the viewers are retarded? I am really disappointed with almost every show that I watch this season, if not EVERY show. You would think the writers strike would have given them time to think about their shows even if they couldn't actually put pen to paper.
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Okay, name the plot-holes. And please, don't get angry if I'm able to argue against them.
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Peter got :"THE HUNGER OF KNOWLEDGE" from Sylar/Gabriel. Herc listen to me: just because the characters believe something in the show, does not make it fact. Their abilities and futures are all flexable and unclear. The writers can explain anything they want throught this lil' writing trick. If this disregard for suspension of disbelief bothers you, then that is a matter of personal taste.If you think I care if you like
heroes or not, you are wrong. -
Heroes is off my DVR list. Unwatchable.(Pardon me but I'm bored.)
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Lost may have improved in Seaso n4 but that show never plummeted to the depths Heroes has. This show has offically become a hopeless disaster. I mean it's breathtakingly AWFUL and NONSENSICAL. Has to be the most poorly written show in recent memory. I hate people who say what I'm about to say but "I'm done." I really am. This was my last episode of Heroes and my last post on any of the TB's about it. For the the masochists who still watch this show, enjoy.
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Fuck that, Lost 4x04 is the worst episode of any TV show ever made.
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From any season of it. Aside from the usual solid writing, that episode set up alot of things later revealed in the rest of the season, it had Locke tieing up Miles and shoving a grenade in his mouth, it had Kate/Sawyer sex, and it had the mind blowing Aaron revela at the end.
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I broke my last post rule because of Mr. Z. Consider this one the last unless I am personally engaged again.
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BULLSHIT. The grenade thing was never mentioned again, Kate and Sawyer's sex was ultimately ignored, and while the Aaron reveal did lead somewhere I don't think you can give 'props' to an episode that ultimately accomplished nothing. And better than any ep of Heroes? That's just ridiculous. Even if you think Heroes sucks, I can't believe you'd rank the worst episode of Lost above Heroes 1x17, or Heroes 1x20. There's being a fanboy, and then there's being an incredulous fanboy.
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He did survive it right? How did that happen when he was practically ground zero for the explosion... I mean, I know Marlowe is awesome and everything, but still...
Maybe I missed something.
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I might have missed it, but I thought he took all the slugs to the chest...
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Whuh? They never show Knox again after that. The Haitian is shown, but not Knox.
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Molly's superpowers include not aging? Hiro and Ando dig up supervillain Adam with no back-up from The Company (okay, I'm sure we'll discover some guys are just off-screen with tazers - but not shovels obviously - next week)(And you're quite right about the whole digging thing Spidermonkee). What's with Parkman's face-paint? Another nice touch to demonstrate how in-tune the writers of this show are with other cultures (Also see: portrayals of Indian, Japanese, Irish culture). And I think the almighty nature of Peter and Hiro's powers pretty much ruins any chance of telling stories that can't be nit-picked for this show unfortunately.
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He took two to the chest. With The Haitian nearby. So he died. The Haitian blocked Peter's empathic ability to regenerate, so he couldn't heal himself. Ala Claire in S1.
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Hiro can stop time at a seconds notice, so if Adam tries anything, Hiro can just teleport him into a Level 5 prison. Molly wise, I'll give you that.
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...And Firefly, and anything else vomited out by Joss Whedon. I'd rather watch a five-day marathon of Heroes than one episode of Buffy.
I think Herc's whole problem is that Heroes isn't Buffy. In fact, I think that's Herc's problem with ANY show. If it's not Buffy, America's Top Model or Gilmore Girls, Herc doesn't seem to like it for very long.
I hated Heroes at the end of last season, but so far this season is entertaining in a soap opera kind of way. -
If Hercules bails on a genre show what more proof of it's suck-itude do you need? And honestly Chrth, (whose posts I generally admire as rather eloquent all things considered) web hits to justify keeping a Heroes TB up? Really? THAT says more about how bad the show has actually become than anything else.
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Just the fact that you're defending this shitfest makes you one Z. Who gives a fuck if the grenade wasn't mentioned again. Any halfwit ca nassume it was removed the next time he was fed. It was an offhand punitive measure, not a plot device. And Kate and Sawyer having sex was ignored? Did you want them talking baout it for the rest of the season?
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Yeah, I don't think Herc's particularly with it. He keeps asking the dumbest questions of all time in regards to Heroes. There's criticism, and then there's the 'I don't understand, so I hate' nonsense that people like Herc throw out there.
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Except I'm not an incredulous fanboy. I'll admit eps of Lost are better than eps of Heroes (and vice versa.) I'll admit that Maya is incredibly pointless in Heroes S3, and that it seems odd that Claire was such a hardass in 3x01, but wavered in 3x04. As for Kate and Sawyer, I would honestly have preffered her centric episode in S4 to have figured out a logical way for her to avoid prison. But it didn't, and that sucks because up to then I loved Lost S4.
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Shouldn't Future!Peter automatically regenerate? The same way he did when Sylar killed him with the glass shards back in season 1, once they were removed from his brain...
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Of COURSE the grenade matters. Is it a dummy grenade? How long was Miles chewing it? When was it removed? If it's important enough for a cliffhanger, it's important enough to be addressed, not ignored for multiple episodes and then shrugged off.
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Yeah, but whose gonna remove the bullets from Future Peter? They wanted him dead, he's dead. Of course, the real answer is that NBC didn't want to show them decapitating Future Peter.
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Claire and Maya are pretty dull as well.
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Should we expect Sylar to have his season 1 acquired powers back soon? (Melting, freezing, nuc-u-lar, super hearing, Charlie's super memory/learning, in addition to the new stuff he got this year - immortality/healing, soundmanipulation, goldfinger, historylessontouch... am i leaving anything out?
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IS it hard to realise that with the exploding power sylar didnt expect his son to get killed and the fact that he did it himself. HE got so upset that the exploding power kicked in.
ITs part of that power. It shows that the writers didnt forget about all the abilities that peter and sylar have.
I think the writers are doing a pretty good job of keeping everything together. A lot of the question are answered in previous episodes. I just dont think everybody pays enough attention to each episode.
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Technically, we're assuming that Sylar has his old powers. He might've just killed some new Heroes and taken the powers that away. Kinda like how in Five Years Gone Peter has the same Pyrokinesis as Meredith, so we assume that he absorbed it from her.
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There's no bullet in his brain that we know of, and regeneration seems to push the bullets out of the victim while they heal... Future!Peter should be rising from the dead as soon as Hatian isn't around.
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Technically (heh), it might not even be Induced Radioativity. Sylar's always been in control of his abilities, but perhaps the grief caused him to burn up like Peter did in S1, when he started remembering everyone he'd met.
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You didn't think an episode devoted to Kate getting acquitted in a court of law was a logical way for her to avoid prison?
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She got off because her mother wouldn't testify against her and the DA was forced to give her a deal. That's not logical?
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I'd assume that once a regenerator dies near a power negator, then they can't regenerate later on because they've shut down.
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Not in the way they did. Think of how many witnesses there are to her crimes - the Bank Robbers in Australia, the Farmer; surely the Marshall kept some records. There's no logical way that she'd win that court case, especially as all she had was the word of Jack. Now if they'd had someone bribe the Judge, then I'd buy it - as it stands, they're asking us to believe that she'd get off scott free? Ridiculous.
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I'm not a fan of Lost, but I'll admit it's sometimes brilliant. Not particularly consistent, though - and too reliant on the end payoff being satisfying.
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It must be difficult for Herc, being unable to gently pet Lost every week.
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best line of the talkback
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Could have been an easy line of exposition to insert, and a very important plot point. When a regenerator (who up until now we have been shown CANNOT die no matter what) dies while next to a negator, they die for good... no matter what. And if Claire is so upset about not feeling pain, she should just hang out with the Hatian.
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Yeah, but Peter isn't Claire. It's not clear how far his Regeneration stretches - can he heal with his blood, for instance? Or live for hundreds of year? By all means he can scar, so I'd say there's some future plot points there.
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Herc will put up a talkback about some show called Valentine, or some reality show, but a "cool" show like SUPERNATURAL goes ignored every week. What gives?
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No idea. I don't watch Supernatural, but a fair few people do. If it helps, I wouldn't feel phased if you guys wanted to discuss Supernatural in this one.
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Since he's hung out with both Claire and Adam. I would assume that he has the same healing abilities as them. Immortality, blood cure, etc. But here we go again... we must assume or not assume... which do we do? Same deal with the hatian... do we assume that a regenerator dies for good when killed near him? Or just Peter, because maybe his regeneration is different. If Claire were shot and killed near the Hatian, does she die for good? How about Sylar? Is his regeneration exactly the same as Claire's? Can he revive people with his blood? Next week should be interesting... SPOILER...
but the "surprise return" is totally not surprising to me, I think many including myself expected him to show up at some point since he was mentioned way back in the first or second episode. -
Kate had become a national hero in the eyes of the public after the crash and she had a good lawyer who argued to the DA that the jury would never convict a national hero, new mother, and a woman who's initial crime was saving her mother from an abusive alcoholic husband. Guilty peopel get off all the time. And she may have avoided jail time but she still got 10 YEARS of probation in which she wasn't allowed to leave the state.
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I don't think they've tried to hide it. And in regards to Sylar, he masters abilities... so I'd say he's probably functioning at the same level as Adam.
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If you dug the logic, fine. I just think they had the chance to rework Kate's story. They could've gone anywhere, like they did with Sayid and Hurley... and they went there? Her story is basically Claire's story, and that sucks because when they actually give EL something good she isn't a bad little actress.
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What in the hell does the African future!painter!guy listen to on his walkman? Brittney Spears? Justin Timberlake? Pink Floyd? Dr. Dre? Pantera? The LOST season 1 soundtrack? I need ANSWERS!!!!
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...I posted that I was pretty much done with this show. I had in-laws over for dinner last night, so I needed an excuse to pass on stupid conversation, so I watched a stupid show...Heroes. And, I have to admit, this episode was better. HERC - have you read "Methusalah's Children" by Robert Heinlein? The one that introduced Lazarus Long? Trade extended lifespans for super abilities, and you have a key plot point that was advanced last night. Some people are born with ability, some are made...like Nikki/Jessica/Tracy...via DNA manipulation. So, while there are some definite "WTF?!?!" moments with Heroes, I am back as a watcher...for a while, at least.
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Until he loses control and explodes. And if I were a master of telekinesis, I'd be able to do subdue a few assholes who were threatening my kid...
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In what way is Kate's story like Claire's?
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It isn't like Claire's, it is Claire's. Kate's now raising Aaron, and that bugs me because it's like they ran out of her story and decided to give her Claire's.
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We've never seen Sylar grieve, so I can buy he'd lose control.
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Kates episodes are generally some of the least interesting, to me, on Lost... although that could be attributed to the writers who usually did those episodes. Maybe they do something for the female demographic though, but I wouldn't know I don't have a vagina :shrugs:
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Except they're continuing her story using Claire's. And sidelining Claire. Which bugs me, because while I do think EL can act... Emilie is really underrated.
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Dude, there is no need for me to name the plot holes as they are repeated numerous times in posts above mine. I wouldn't dream of getting angry if you can argue against them, feel free to do so if you wish. You could never justify all of the time travel nonsense to me. You have 2 characters who can travel to anywhere and any when they want at any time yet the chose not to for no apparent justifiable reason.
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So does Peter still have the potential to explode if traumatized enough? That was one thing that never set right with me from season 2. It's not like he ever lost Ted's ability... I just remember him being without his memory for a bit.
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People don't really seem to have a problem with the fact that the writing isn't perfect on the show. The writing isn't perfect on any show really, when you think about it. But with Heroes, the bad writing is just so transparent. I mean things like in last night's episode with Future Peter being shot and killed, should not have happened, he can't die. And even is the Haitian was there, once he left wouldn't Peter's healing abilities kick in and bring him back to life. Lame excuse to kill the character.
And Hayden Panettiere is proving to be a pretty hack actress, is it me or did it seem like she really phoned it in this episode.
All in all, I did think this was a pretty good episode, really forwarded the plot of the show. Aside from Haresh, is he turning into Spiderman? And good to see that they were able to bring back Adam, and the way they did it was awesome. -
It was pretty unbelievable that 2 kinda-heroes were able to even make Sylar blink. He should have pinned Clair and the black guy to the wall in the first .1 seconds.
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Time-travel is complete nonsense, no matter where it's executed. If you go back in time to do anything, you're going to change the timeline you came from and thus will - theoretically - cease to exist.
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Once again, he didn't want to use his abilities in front of his son. The show had him say this twice.
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The reason they took away Peter's memory was so he could learn to use his abilities without relying on so many other people. He used Induced Radioactivity to crush the virus to prove this point. Theoretically, he could overload if he was subject to a significant amount of grief.
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The continued existence of an individual who has altered their own past (but remains themself unchanged) is a textbook example of paradox. Also, theoretical (Hey, it HAS to be at this point) temporal mechanics suggests that you don't actually alter your own timeline but rather create a parallel one adjacent to the one you initially departed from.
t lie.....
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Nope, not really good at all. Derivative, ponderous, boring and tiresome...those are the words I'd use to describe this episode. SOOOOO unoriginal and best line: When future Peter said he couldn't go back and change the past because he'd made terrible decisions. WTF? No, not good.
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It's insanely large plot holes which make it impossible to care a whit about what happens to anyone. This and Dexter need to stop receiving all the unearned love, as it's convincing networks that they really CAN just produce dreck and you guys will eat it up. In a world where all of you actually cared about the quality of what you watch, shit that networks make would actually HAVE to be good... and you wouldn't all have to convince yourselves it's entertaining to enjoy it. Ah, Stringer, how your death meant so little.
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But I have given up on this show.
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What? If I was capable of time-travel, and went back to correct a mistake, and made a worse mistake, I wouldn't want to rush back in time unless I could be sure I would know exactly what to change. Future Peter is thinking logically there.
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I love chaps like you, who are a second away from calling us chaps who enjoy the show 'retards' for liking it.
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.. how the seemingly innumerable "You're just HATERS!" posters make me hate the show all the more.
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I don't remember ever saying that word. I do think people should stop watching and commenting if they don't find any enjoyment with the show, but most people do note they enjoy some parts of it.
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Until next week. In the 18-49 group, it's a 3.9/9, also a series low. They've lost 25% in overall viewers and in 18-49 since last season. Maybe Kristen Bell is the smartest cat in the room signing up for just 5 episodes. :|
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Ya know, there is a show called Veronica Mars that one can watch if one is gaga for Kristen Bell.
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Herc, you seem to be channeling me and your black coloured boxes making people discuss my thoughts, hurrah for you I say. To quote my flatmate who gave up on Heroes after 3x01-02; 'I don't think I ever liked Heroes, just the potential coolness it had of being X-Men done right.....its failed'
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Not hating on you at all, but just one quick question. Which do you prefer, Heroes or X-Men III?
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Will determine Heroes fate. Unless something changes the current trend and soon, it's quite unlikely there'll be a Season 4. Boost or Hate all you want, thems the facts jack.
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They are falling, but I believe it's still one of NBC's Top Five shows.
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Oh no, its' not a kingdom come vibe. it's definatly an earth X vibe. The Mojinder as spiderman, then in the future a dark robed figure, the everyone has powers future. it's all there.
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I tell ya, I hope they go all the way with his ability. I'd love to have a real freakish looking character on the show, just to show how the genetic marker can affect people - plus it may, hopefully, give us someone who fights crime.
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See you all next week!
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..."figuring out how stuff works by looking at it" power. Now he does. The rub: It's an addiction! Last night's ep was pretty good, surprisingly, even though Hayden just cannot make me believe she's a badass! Also... four years in the future and the "locate anyone on a map" kid's still the same damn age?
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Heh, I'll be back. I love this show. That bit where Sylar went Nuclear was absolutely jaw-droppingly awesome.
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I've tried... very VERY hard... to get into this show. VERY hard. I've tried watching two episodes and every time, just when I get into the character, they switch to someone else. I really want to like this show... it kinda seems right up my alley... but I'm also getting in really late.
Any suggestions for a good point to jump in? I've tried watching the show from the beginning but I just keep turning it off cuz I'm lost or, more frequently, bored. Suggestions? -
Why in the world would peter need instruction on the ability to KNOW HOW THINGS WORK? If Peter absorbed sylars' power when they first met in season one, he should know how things work just as sylar does. It doesn't fly that he needs explainations since the power itself provides it.
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You kinda have to watch from 1x01 onwards. Best advice I could give you would be to watch three or four eps back to back, and if you hit an unbearable point, just go get a drink. By the time you get back it'll be over and onto the next character.
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Yeah, I said that for about four months with Lost. I did eventually give up, though. I just got sick of all the threads left blowing in the wind for 1-3 years, and then when they finally came back to tie up the loose ends for which you'd been waiting FOREVER for a resolution or explanation, they just did it quickly with some really stupid explanation that just made me go "Really? I've been waiting 2 years for THAT?"I hope that, if I ever actually am able to get into Heroes, that it isn't the same experience as Lost.
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Peter's ability allows him to absorb powers, Sylar's ability allows him to take powers AND gives him an ability to see the variables of a situation. Which is why Sylar was able to pose as an FBI Agent, because he read the situation and acted accordingly.
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Seems like a series can come back from the deepest depths of suck. I wouldn't bury heroes.
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Heroes works in Volumes. A good 80% of the story for each Volume is self-contained. There's overarching stuff, but it's not as complex as Lost.
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i had a journalims teacher who liked to say, there are no new stories, only new story tellers. ever conceivable decent type of story, has already been done. if suresh wasn't ripping off the fly, he'd be ripping of flubber. Theres nothing new anymore, only the way you tell whats old.
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Awwwwwww... :(
Sounds like it's just not going to work for me. What a shame.
I just can't pinpoint what it is that doesn't work for me. I mean, Lost had a lot of characters, but I was always able to keep track of them and they were my favorite part of the show. I just can't get into the characters in Heroes like I could with Lost... like I said, just when I'm starting to dig a character, they switch to someone else and then I have to start all over again with the next one. Maybe it's just a lack of a perceived connection between the characters that ruins it for me, I don't know. -
Peter needs to leave the Moronverse
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I thought the same thing when I was watching. In 8 episodes we'll probably find out Molly has a disease where she doesn't age. She'll be 10 forever.
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Yeah, it's a big ensemble show. But you'll find they split up better as they go along. What you could do is go to the finale of S1 (which has a recap that condenses S1 into three or four minutes), and see if that works better. Maybe knowing where it goes will help you want to get there.
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..you do realize what you said doesn't refute my point right? It backs it up further. Sylars abilities are instinctive, which would make peters use of that power instinctive as well. I mean, peter doesn't have to be awake to regenerate does he?
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Heroes is much better on DVD. I watched season 1 and 2 on DVD and loved both of them. 1 being better than 2 of course, but I don't understand the hate for the second season.
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...is Nathan and Peter's father. Pretty obvious.
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The writers like to tell many individual stories in pieces as they happen but all at the the same time. Sometimes week to week viewers lose sight of the whole picture. In one episode the focus will be on one story that seems to move right along, while the others seem to drag on.
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They said it was the best since the first season!
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Let me put it this way. When Sylar takes an ability, he masters it. He was able to improve Claire's to the point where she felt no physical pain. With Peter's, every ability he absorbs is taken at a basic level. He doesn't understand how to use them properly, or what their placement should be. Future Peter could time-travel, but he didn't have the variables to understand an effective way to stop his future from happening. Intuitive Aptitude allows that, it means Peter is able to connects the dots. He can see how the events come to pass, and change them accordingly without doing a lot of guessing work.
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I agree on the DVD front. Ever watched 1x21 - 1x23 back to back. It's not hyperbole, that feels like a feature film unto itself.
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so, um i've scanned all this and i don't see anyone mentioning the revelation that is sylar's kid being called NOAH.
so, is the a young HRG before he would have been deposited backward in time to grow up safely? now that he is dead in this alternate future, what previous story points will fall apart? was he just named Noah in memorial for HRG who is dead in that future? Or will some hero with healing or regenerating powers somehow 'enyoungen' HRG and somehow Sylar is his chosen protector? Is HRG so protective of claire not because she's his adopted daughter, but because she is really his mother, and if she dies, he does not exist? -
Is why once exposed to Sylar, doesn't he have Sylar's ability to master things? It's kind of weird that he has to learn to Master Sylar's Mastery ability.... shouldn't just HAVING the Mastery ability give Peter the Mastery ability? He has had it since he first ran into Sylar... that he has to learn to use it seems kind of dumb, but I guess you can argue it either way. Whatever, it's not worth me thinking about.
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It IS dumb-as-a-brick Peter we are talking about, so I'll allow it.
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Thanks for the suggestion, I think I'll try that!
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It would be dumb, but The Company couldn't figure out what Sylar's ability is and neither could PapaSuresh. Now all of the above are smarter than Peter, so it stands to reason that he wouldn't twig it until he got a demonstration.
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BUt NO network will continue to spend the kind of money Heroes costs to remain number three.
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Do NOT watch 'What Happens In Vegas.' It is the worst film I have EVER seen!
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Possibly - luckily, they've finished shooting Volume III. So at the very least, we get a complete Volume on DVD.
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Oct 07, 2008 1:50:43 PM CDT
Complain Complain Complain you idiots are writing the season for
by tthenomad
What holes did we forget about? Check talk back.
Where should we go?
Check talk back.
Who will always complain from their computer?
Check talk back. -
I'm going to assume he's been underground for months since Hiro buried him. You'd think he'd at least have a five o'clock shadow or something. Although I'm curious to what motivated Sylar to name his kid after Noah.
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And sadly, I'll keep on watching like the sheep that I am. Last night's episode was ridiculously horrible. Too much crammed in, horrible plotlines, tiring and aggravating to watch. No wonder Heroes is down 16% in viewership.
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It's been 4 out 5 so far this season, some good storylines and some solid writing make for good sci fi. BUT FOR FUCKS SAKE MOVE IT TO ANOTHER TIMESLOT FOX!!!! IT CAN'T COMPETE WITH FOOTBALL...
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It's been three days since Hiro buried him.
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he can clean slate himself, age wise...or clone himself.would you say that kid looked for years old? and it's four years in the future? hummmm.
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That's what the show has become too, a couple of moments of brilliance each episode between long minutes of utter shit. Also where the fuck was Elle in this future?
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Four years means nothing. We're in March 2007 currently, for all we know they were in December 2011.
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HERC deserves credit for bashing this episode.
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totally. I am really warming up to TSCC. I was iffy last season but this season has been kicking ass despite the slightly hokey premiere. TSCC is INFINITELY better than Heroes.
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HoboCode, you lied - you said you'd only return if someone called for you too.
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Kring is retarted is all you need to know
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This season is was ordered in full IIRC. (Volume 3 is the first half of the season, Volume 4 (Fugitives) will be the second half of this season). And hey, if you're TRULY enjoying the show without mounting frustration at the ever increasing stupidity of the characters more power to ya. For my part, my disappointment mounts with each episode and I lament what could have been. (I'm watching it until the end of this volume because one of my OCD's is "complete-ism")
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Desparate for a TB for a show that's actually good I guess.
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I don't disagree with ya, sir - it's ridiculous that Supernatural/Terminator don't get talkbacks. Terminator especially - everytime there's a hint of a movie casting there's a new TB, but the show gets nothing?!?
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That is all.
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When you barely eke out a win against the frakkin' Sarah Connor Chronicles, it's time to pack it in. Put Deal or No Deal back at 8, My Own Worst Enemy at 9 and Medium at 10. Move Heroes to Wednesday nights. I know that's running up the white flag against that piece of galactic shit dance show, but sometimes you have to cut your losses. NBC doesn't have any other night to move Heroes to except Wednesday. If they do that, they just might ensure themselves a season 4.
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Thought it was okay last year, but enjoying the hell out of it this year...especially the last 2 eps.
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over their decision to hold Heroes back until the fall. That 10-month gap was just an absolute slitting of one's own throat. They should have made at least a basic effort to get back in the race with a five or six-episode mini-arc. But the show's problems are more than that, obviously.
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So we can fill the time slot with a shitty game show or reality show? No thanks.There is definitely room for improvement on Heroes, but if I didn't enjoy watching it I would stop. I stuck with The 4400 to the bitter end (actually... they didn't end it... it got cancelled before it could get a proper ending) and I'll stick around for Heroes. I just wish the writing could be as tight as other shows I watch. If Heroes were ultra shitty, in the realm of Flash Gordon, Painkiller Jane, Moronic Woman, or the new Knight Rider (which I admit to having never seen... but I never saw Disaster Movie either, and I feel I can take a massive dump on that if I like) then I would say cancel it.
Right now, it's keeping me interested, so let the show go on. If I ever decided to stop watching it live, it would at least be good fodder for a rainy weekend or during the holiday or off season when the tv schedule is a wasteland. -
Yeah, I don't think five eps would've been a success. Heroes has too many regulars to give them all adequate story in eleven eps, let alone five.
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I think both are equally flawed, but entertaining. T-1000!Shirley Manson is hot... but don't let her deepthroat you because you're the one who will end up getting your throat (and other internal organs) poked and mangled.
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I can see why people would think TSCC was better. It's more focused, it gives the regulars adequate story, and it's tightly scripted. But me, I like the scope that Heroes has and the worldwide feel.
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I'm not quite ready to give up, but I will if Volume 3 doesn't make sense in the end. Right now people are just making stupid decisions, constantly. HRG wants to find Sylar's weakness? It was the guy he was talking to when he said that. Peter is in a showdown with Claire again (without the Haitian there) and doesn't freeze time and get everyone to safety? Claire goes *into* a battle with Peter *and* Sylar without the Haitian in the first place? You could say, "oh, but they're human and they make mistakes," but watching people be stupid for an hour every week just isn't that entertaining for me.
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Well said, Turketron. This season's first two eps were not living up to this show's promise. But I still enjoy watching it; contrary to what the smug ADD herd says, I haven't seen anything so godawful as to put me off my feed. I truly wish the writing was as snappy as what we're used to from other genre shows such as Buffy and Lost. It's just ignorant to give up on the show at this point when it has yet to unleash its potential.
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You're clearly in the minority. All I see nowadays are entire hours of airtime devoted to watching people be stupid. It's honestly a sad statement that so many people find "reality" tv entertaining. I don't know about you, but there's only so many time I can look at the attention-starved wreckage they call human beings.
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...is the child of Sylar and Elle. The original Noah helped Sylar regain his humanity but was killed by Claire. Sylar gained control of the hunger and named his kid after Noah to honor him. Wait and see.
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Peter has been around the Haitian a number of times. So that means would have his ability and not even be aware of it. The Haitians damping power would seem to just flow out of Peter. If that's missed then its truly a shame on the part of the writers. That might explain why FP didn't awake when the PP teleported back to the present time. If Peter does have the Haitian's power then he's now unstoppable.
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The problem there is that Peter cannot absorb an ability from someone who blocks abilities. And he won't, because then he could destroy anyone. There'll always be people he can't beat.
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Now that show isn't filled to the brim with stupid, not to mention it's building quite the mythology about it.
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Do any of you Hollywood insiders have an explanation for why bad writers aren't replaced when they need to be? Assuming that NBC likes money, you'd think they'd monitor their investments (by watching the shows and not just watching the Neilsons) and make changes as needed. Is it a union thing, where they can't fire anyone? That's what drives me so crazy here, I just can't understand why they don't fix things when it would be so easy to do so. The writers are obviously retards, but is everyone up the chain a tard too? So it's either gotta be a union thing or they just don't like money. Mind-boggling!
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...because the Hatian's power disables Peter's power to absorb powers. Isn't that obvious?
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They're all good shows worth watching. All very flawed, but also very enjoyable. And they're the best we have until BSG comes back on the air in like 5 years.
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I stand corrected
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1. Didn’t Peter already have Sylar’s abilities from when they fought? Sylar seemed to imply that his Power wasn’t just for the taking. Peter: “Then I’ll just take what I need.” Sylar: “as if you could.”
2. Why shoot Nathan with a gun? Future Peter shot Nathan rather than fry him, or whatever, because he was testing what an action (the shooting of his brother) would do to the future timeline. The main point was that he didn’t want Nate to tell everyone that there were people with abilities, so frying him would have also pointed to that, so he chose a garden-variety style of assassination.
3. Why not go back and stop Sylar from stealing Claire’s power? Butterfly Effect. Future Peter says it wasn’t supposed to happen, so will try another time fix to make it right. Present Peter was trapped in another’s body, so he didn’t even know it happened.
4. If the future can’t be changed…? Yes the future can be changed, yada, yada, just not to ones desired effect, necessarily.
5. Who needs the Kwicki Kopy? Yeah, cover, or what looked like rather lame cover, because I’m not entirely convinced that Noah actually ever did leave the company, but it was just a game they were all playing with Suresh, Claire and others to get them in line. Where the Hatian is always present, maybe Noah also doesn’t ever really know what his bad self is up to either.
6. Peter does not have the Hatian’s powers because Peters powers do not work around the Hatian, duh-hoy.
7. “Didn't Sylar lose all of his powers except for Intuitive Aptitude and Telekinesis due to the virus from season 2?” Erm… yeah, Claire’s healing powers restore them all, over time, I suppose, but in the future, he had learned to suppress them and was trying to live a normal life without them. So much so, that the Clairebear Kids clearly caught him off-guard when they attacked the house.
8. “Also, how did the fear eating guy survive the nuclear explosion?” And wouldn’t Claire and Peter been vaporized, too? I mean, how far does this healing power go? Oh, wait, I’m supposed to be apologizing. Peter transported everyone in the room out of there before Sylar went off, except for Flash-Girl, who tried to run for it. Yeah… that’s what happened, while the writers were busy manipulating the emotions of parents with small children.
9. “And you can just kill peter while the Hatian is around? He wouldn't just come back alive as soon as the Hatian left the room?” Didn’t Claire say that a bullet in the base of the head should do it? The Achilles Heal, I guess. It might also be that Scarface Peter, having made too many “terrible decisions” and “stepped on too many butterflies” knew he would/should die then, and was passing the buck back to his past self.
10. “Where are Nathan's wife and children?” Nate is quite divorced from his first wife.
11. “Why was Clairebear torturing Peter?” Just for kicks, and she’s become just like her “Dad.”
12. “…My point is there is more than just a Future Peter and a Present Peter.” No doubt that Peter and Hiro have proliferated themselves throughout many timelines to varying degrees of influence. (?)
13. Why did Hiro have to dig up Adam? Let’s see YOU teleport into a tiny coffin underground and back out again with its contents, big shot. And who said Hiro teleported him there in the first place. Hiro said himself that he buried him “so deep.” *ahem*
14. “Four years in the future and the "locate anyone on a map" kid's still the same damn age?” Uh… yeah, that’s right, one of her abilities is slow-to-no-aging. Really, it is. *cough*
15. “Is HRG so protective of claire not because she's his adopted daughter, but because she is really his mother, and if she dies, he does not exist?” Dude! You are freakin’ me out?! Could be, though, could be….
16. “So Adam's hair doesnt' grow?” He had some stubble, but presumably, he went into a kind of suspended animation limbo, neither dead or alive, or maybe it has just been a few days.
11. Why doesn’t Peter just do X? OK, Peter is a deeply confused and troubled individual, no doubt about that. He’s reluctant to use his powers, usually doesn’t even know how to, and is clearly becoming more and more disturbed and disassociative as things progress. Fact is, he hasn’t been able to assimilate anything properly and is merely reacting to things as they happen or will happen. Scarface Peter is a vision of a Peter who does use all of his powers (freeze time, etc…), but doing so has backfired and made him a villain in everyone’s eyes (why?). Once driven by the simple urge to “do right,” and, now, having absorbed future Sylar’s powers, he has also has “the hunger,” so his sanity and soul are in serious jeopardy.
Yeah, the show's silly, but I still like it.
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Absolutely, I agree. The thing that pisses me off the most is that this show could be improved 100% if its fictional universe were more consistant! Instead, the creators thunder on, oblivious to the vital fact that any production like this requires a carefully sustained set of rules! Sure, it's great to have plot twists, and cute little quips come out of the characters mouths, but Kring or somebody needs to ride herd on this bunch of spider monkeys and make them earn their fat paychecks!!
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X-Men 3, what you talk about??!? (I wiped that piece of shit from my mind, it was so ball achingly bad I felt the need to call anyone who had seen it a prick.....so...heroes) Heroes had lots of potential but seems to have written nearly all its characters down avenues of shite boringness they are all having mental breaks of personality changes, seriously its getting like WWE where the most popular characters become good guys.
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Seriously, dude. That was a helluva job.
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If you're still reading this: Punctuation, man! Jesus Christ! The comma and period are right there on the bottom right of your keyboard.
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They are putting across the rules. It's just that we're not getting them all at once. You have to consider that your (not mine, I liked S2) hatred of S2 has led them to reboot the show, so everything 3x01 onwards is a new show with the same characters.
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...and I'm gonna throw up! Also, "Clairebear as a Badass"? Not convincing. Stop that.
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..to fans who can explain off all of the nonsensical shite that happens on the show. Make it a big game, that way the writer's can put forth the notion that the "whu-huh?" moments could be there on purpose.
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...drive me insane because they watch five minutes without giving the show their full investment. The first season (sans the finale) was nearly pitch perfect for what the show was trying to achieve. Because of the strike, Season 2 did have some misteps and wasn't given it's full due to right the ship. Season 3 so far has been nearly on par with Season 1, only darker and more mysterious. I hope the show is meeting it's target demos because I'd like to see how the whole advenutre pans out.
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Im not big on complaining about plot holes. Especially in a series I like. And I did like last nights episode. But the only thing about the whole issue of Peter getting Sylars ability is the fact that if Peter did absorb his power during the final fight in season 1, then why is it two seasons later that he is getting the hunger that Sylar spoke of. And during the scene of Peter asking for Sylars permission/ help or whatever, Sylar refused to give him the power because he didnt want Peter to feel the hunger that he is having so much trouble fighting. Whatever that scene was supposed to imply, I think most of us can agree that it was just badly written.
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He gets his strength from fear right. Well, maybe everyone being so scared of Sylar going nuclear at that moment turned him into Superman, and was able to live.
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but then a moron like kring wouldn't know that, so yeah he probably lived
(nothin personal) -
I'm busy banging my girlfriend in the next room, not giving a shit. Just so you and the producers know....
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The "hunger" of the power angle spits in the face of the excellent S1 episode with his mother that explained why he was so fucked up in the first place. But hey, they wanted to show him in a goofy domestic role so they tied his darkness to his power so that he could will himself good. They're actually undoing the good parts of S1 with this season.
re: Devil's Own, you're right about internal consistency. If they could get that down, the rest would follow. -
Season one was OK, but this season sux as bad as season 2.
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kring wanted to start with new characters in season 2. He can't create a character with any depth or real motivations or actions.
He did all right in the 1st seasons origin stories. Blew the finale and it's been going down hill since. -
i totally agree with you, I enjoy this show a lot and admit it has it's flaws but it entertains me. I think the haters are trying to hard to pick it apart. However I really don't like Sylar's "hunger" I like him being evil for the hell of being evil it's much more fun. It's like giving the joker a sympathetic side. Also Mohinder's a bit too much of a blatant theft of The Fly for me but thats more in the way the writers are having it happen more than the fact he's actually mutating. I am mighty curious as to what he looks like under that hood.
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They could at least spread the story out a bit. This means Adam was barely punished at all.
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It's in season 4 and only getting better. Heroes can't get it's shit straight and it's barely into season 3. Supernatural makes a story arc look like child's play while Heroes can't get two eps. in a row without falling all over it's self.
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I've watched every episode since the pilot up until this week."Heroes" Sucks.
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Fire Tim fucking Kring. From what I've seen, he's one of the worst writers on the entire show. Losing Bryan Fuller was tragic for this show, but for my money, there are still talented writers on the Heroes staff. Joe Pokaski proved to be pretty decent, having written "Five Years Gone" in season 1 and "Cautionary Tales," probably the best episode from S2. Aron Coleite's not that bad, either. However, they're both fairly inexperienced, so I wouldn't make either of them a showrunner (though could they really be worse than Kring?).
I say bring in some new blood to run the show. Obviously, they probably couldn't get any of the great HBO showrunners, so I won't even go there. But David Greenwalt proved to be very good at long-term character arcs when he was Angel's showrunner, and that show was in a similar vein as this. He's not up to anything now, why not give him a call? Daniel Cerone, Dexter's former showrunner, is quite adept at running self-contained season-long story arcs, so maybe if his gig with Dirty Sexy Money doesn't work out (doesn't that show have issues keeping showrunners?), they can give him a call.
Honestly, there are plenty of options out there. Tim Kring has had more than enough shots to get it right. They need a regime change before its too late. -
felt the Mohinder monologue voice-overs sounded like an older, wiser Mohinder was telling the story of Heroes as if he were in the future himself looking back - and perhaps he'll become some Gandalf like character.
I always liked that idea. Seemed to make the story of Heroes more cohesive. Wonder if it'll ever happen. -
"Hey, Herc, here are the answers to your questions: unrelated nonsense unrelated nonsense unrelated nonsense. Justify justify justify. Reach reach reach. Geez, how can you not see that?"
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He has mentioned roaches a few times on the show, particularly as survivors. And also it would give the unoriginal rip-off artist writers a chance to rip off Kafka.
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kring. you've jumped the shark, we all gave you the gave you the opportunity and you flushed it. no worries. i'll still watch, but this show has become like smallville to me. so much promise. so fucking little deilvered.
did anyone else think it fucking bizzare that parkman hooked up with that speedster that's old enough to be his daughter? kring's transformation of mohinder has not only been influenced by watching the the fly, but lost in space the movie as well. bad ass future claire toting around a gun is rediculous. future peter dead, rediculous. hiro unable to teleport from his cell, rediculous. nathan convenenatly forgetting about his own wife and kids rediculous. -
I was here reading last night and Nappy Park put up an excerpt from an article on the best TV characters of the 21st century about Ando. About an hour later the piece had been removed. Was that because it was1. too long?2. not negative enough? 3. concluded that the latest episode had addressed and corrected some of his reservations? or4. (and I think this is most likely) that mentioning the Y! group and the Blog(get) where the full length article had been posted constituted some sort of spam>I mean, Ando's pretty cool and it was a pretty inoffensive piece and specifically on target for this talkback. Anyone have any theories on why it would be removed?
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and watching two milo's was totally painful...this is a fucking charlton comic...when i was a kid, i loved charlton...but as an adult, they are unreadable...just like this show has become...there was only one cool scene...the apt number is 613...the total number of commandments in the hebrew bible...a very nice touch, as the show initially had alot of biblical references...outside of that, it really is becoming tedious
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But lets face it, it's better than most of the tripe on TV. I think your enjoyment of it depends on how much you can overlook/explain away the plot problems, which I am finding increasingly difficult. Every time I see one it brings me right out of the show and irritates me to the point of almost switching off. I almost see it as a personal insult and that the writers are taking liberties because they see me, the viewer, as someone who is mindless enough to not notice as long as there is something badass on screen to distract me.
I am very disappointed with most, if not all, of the shows I watch this season. My expectations were probably too high as I assumed writers would have had a huge amount of time to map out upcoming stories in their head's due to the strike. Shows were cut short last season which also meant I was looking forward to them more as we got so much less last year and had to wait longer for their return. I guess I should lower my expectations and just be grateful that someone is actually funding these shows, otherwise I would have nothing to watch. -
But I like Heroes alot better than some of the shit that's on the tube.
by the way, Claire DID say in the autopsy room that Peter's "still alive". So saying that Claire killed peter with bullets is wrong.
I liked that Episode, most of these mega series style tv shows ebb and flow, some of the episodes are terrific, some are ok, some are slow and tedious, some have no bearing whatsoever on the story. Lost is also a big culprit. I would wedge this one somewhere in between ok and terrific, its certainly a step up from anything season 2 offered, and a step in the right direction to return this series to the way it was mid way through season 1.
I can understand the apologists being on here defending everything that's questionable about the show... but for the rest of you, what are you doing here? i understand you're frustrated, you can no longer be entertained by it. If you're going to bail on the show, that's cool, I don't really the show doesn't need you. But say your not going to watch the show and be done with it because it would seem that you now feel cheated to the point of channelling all your time on here trying actively to bring it down. it seems strange to me... -
"by the way, Claire DID say in the autopsy room that Peter's "still alive". So saying that Claire killed peter with bullets is wrong."Didn't she mean the younger Peter is still in that timeline, therefore there is still a Peter who is alive? That's how I took it anyway.
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I think the majority here really want to like the show and aren't bagging on it just for the sake of...but it's getting hard to overlook the deficiencies.And to say that "it's still better than..." is a cop out and doesn't salve the feeling of frustration many have. Sure it's better than a reality show, but when you compare cat shit to dog shit, both are still shit.Part of the problem is that the network and the producers take this show too seriously and overhype it; it doesn't measure up in those terms. Contrast that with the show the precedes it, Chuck. Low expectations, just a dumb, fun show, but it manages to fulfill them for the most part.
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I still love Cuti and Staton's E-man (with Byrne's Rog 2000 as back-up). Charlton Premiere did some interesting things. Of course Steve Ditko's work on Blue Beetle, Captain Atom and the Question are historically interesting if only as the Watchmen prototypes. I never read Peacekeeper but I understand it had nothing to do with the movie that stole the name. I liked Wayne Howard's imitation Wallace Wood style on the covers of various Charlton horror covers. I usually just looked at them in the store, though, and then left them on the rack. I did not know that Wayne Howard was 1 a former Wood assistant and 2 black.House of Yang was an interesting early American Manga attempt, though inferior to Marvel's Kung Fu titles. Pete Morisi's work on Vengence Squad was stiff but interesting and I loved JoeStaton's Mike Mauser back-ups.and of course the Charlton Spotlight fanzine was interesting if only for the other wise unpublished Layton, Staton, Byrne and Giordano work it contained. I believe that Layton worked on Hercules comics for Charlton, Marvel and DC at different times, but don't bet on that on my say so.I haven't dug any of those out recently to reread them, but I don't think my tastes have calcified that much in old age. While I don't know if any TV superhero series will ever strike upon such a perfect combination of character, actor and reinvention as Jeffery Combs portray of the paranoid conspiracy buff Question on JLU, I would watch a television series as good as the Charlton comics I just mentioned.Especially E-Man, where I actually prefer the subtlety of the Charlton run to the broad humor and spoofery of the First Comics revival that's influenced every subsequent comeback attempt. But that's just me.
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It does a damn good job of the action/comedy genre. Heroes on the other hand, does a hack job of its not-so-original source material with its hack writers sitting there hacking away at their keyboards. DIE.
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http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20231475,00.html (remove spaces). Agreed with most of it, although I didn't catch the Mohinder thing. So Mohinder is a snake? Hmmmm.
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And it's dragging Heroes down with it. But a USA TOday article says Heroes is down that same percentage JUST SINCE ITS 9/22 PREMIERE. I think that's even more ammo for those like me who now believe in order for it to stem the bleeding, it has to be moved to a different night.
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Just saying. Heroes has more than its share of issues.
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Did anyone else pick up the direct throw back to Cronenberg's The Fly with Mohinder's story? I thought it was quite interesting.
Yes, I have questions. Why would a gun be at all threatening to Peter? Peter can freeze time, and do a myriad of different things, and I am supposed to believe that Claire with a gun is any kind of threat? If by chance Claire for some reason was able to shoot Peter, could he not just regenerate as he did in season 1?
Milo Ventimiglia's acting was quite bad in this last episode, and his character is my favorite thus far. I also don't like how Sylar has been gutted because he's feeling moral. I want the bad guys to stay bad. This jumping from good to evil back to good again eviscerates the characters.
All of that aside, I enjoyed this last episode, but the plot holes were quite apparent. Lastly KILL PARKMAN. He's useless, annoying and a distraction. -
The comparisons to Cronenberg's Fly are deliberate per the producers, although it appears he was rattling in the episode, so it might not be a fly
Claire could shoot Peter because the Haitian was there to stop his powers. Once they had him injured (and while the Haitian was still present) they could finish him by putting a bullet in his brain. -
But at least the characters and writing aren't dumb. That's the difference between this and Heroes this year. Although, I will say that Chuck feels a little off this season too (not that much though).
As for Mohinderfly. Fans have always hated his character, so why no just kill him off already? He could have been good since he was suppose to be a genius, but we now know that isn't true. -
I've read the DVR ratings won't be counted until mid-October, that's next week- Heroes and Lost gets the highest boost from DVR ratings, so the bleeding may not be so bad.
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Oct 08, 2008 12:37:10 PM CDT
Yeah um... I still watch heroes hoping it will get better
by novaman5000
but this episode was not particularly good. Perhaps the biggest problem for me is the fact that Either peter can get seriously harmed (or scar for that matter). We know that Peter can heal now... How did a few bullets kill him? How did past peter not heal right after being cut? It's as though the writers are just ignoring what's come before.
But perhaps the most frustrating aspect of this show is how they insist on spending a majority of the time in a future that will ultimately not come to pass, with characters who will ultimately end up not existing come season's end. Not to mention the fact that their time travel mythology simply doesn't make a lick of sense.
I will continue to watch the show, but now it's more out of mild curiosity than of actual affinity for it. -
this week because my wife had it on in the bedroom. It sucked.
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I have tried to stick with this show, but it is all too stupid now. Powers stop working for no reason. People don't use their powers... it is all so dull. If not for Hiro, I would have abandoned this show already. But now, even Hiro is starting to get on my nerves. One or two more weeks and I am done.
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I wanted to stick this show out, but I missed this weeks episode out of commitment as opposed to actively ignoring it and I honestly didn't care once I realized it.I think I'll just tough it out and wait for BSG and Lost(assuming it doesn't fall off the tracks again...) in January.
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Oct 08, 2008 5:52:26 PM CDT
Sylar and Peter are supposed to be these badasses...
by banzai rootskibango
...and they can't stop a black dude (who's supposed to have powers, yet, I have no idea what the hell they are - kinda like Barack Obama), a chick with a gun and a really fast girl?
I kept watching the scene thinking "What the fuck is wrong with these two dickheads?"
Then I realized it was sloppy writing just so that we can get to the huge explosion...which was very cool...so I'll forgive them. -
It takes the fun out of it. If the charecters didn't do goofy things on occasion the plot would go nowhere, or if it did, it would do so boringly.
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won't even try.
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These future episodes were cool at first but wasting a whole episode on a future that never comes to fruition is pretty wasteful. Also, this show collects characters like Sylar collects powers. Kill some people off for chrissakes, we don't really care that much about them anyways. And keep them dead, don't inject them with blood or something.
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im not sure why people are son intent on looking for holes, they choose not to even watch the scene...the reason peter was able to get shot was because the haitian was there and was able to remove his powers...there was lots wrong with this epi, but that wasnt one of the probs...
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your political racism...especially since obama has more education and experience than you could even hope to attain...and since you have shown your ignorance to the world, outside of being marlo (badass) stansfield, that "black guy" has the power to use the fear of others to increase his own strength...you need to use the power of google to increase your own tiny pinhead brain...fucktwat
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they are stealing from the fly? to me its lazy...not an homage
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And nobody makes a big deal about it.
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If Peter needed Sylar's ability to fix things, why didn't future Peter just do it? I know future Peter said something to the effect that he has made some bad decision, but isn't that supposed to be what Sylar's ability is supposed to fix?
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Is ultra hot this season. Guess her moping etc turned me off last season, but shit she is reminding us she has a rack lately.
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