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We’ve seen senators Obama, McCain and Biden in something like 417 debates over the last two years, but now it’s time for the governor of Alaska to weigh in on the issues.
Gwen Ifill, moderator of tonight's Joe Biden-Sarah Palin debate, is in such a tizzy she broke her ankle on Monday carrying research materials for the event!
Here’s a question Ifill may not pose. A teacher in Wasilla claims Sarah Palin once told her that dinosaurs roamed the earth alongside Adam and Eve less than 6,000 years ago; if the teacher's tale is true, don’t we all feel a little less concerned about Mitt Romney’s use of magic underwear?
9 p.m. ET / 6 p.m. PT. Thursday. Every Channel Except The CW.
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MMA got nothin' on this.
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Never heard of 'em.
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It seems she did not ask anyone if it was Okey dokey to moderate the debate when she is writing a book called AGE OF OBAMa which will earn $ 500,000 more if obama wins the election.
You have to love our corrupt, in the tank media. -
His name is John McCain.
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depending on the affiliates, I suppose. It is in my area at least. And yes, I want to see Sarah Palin get owned. It is going to be brutal.
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Gwen Ifill's book deal was announced in July, several weeks before she was approved BY BOTH CAMPAIGNS to be the moderator of tomorrow's debate. Sorry it couldn't be, oh, say Bill O'Reily or someone else from Fox News.
Let's face it, Republicans are petrified and grasping at any straw possible to try to make excuses for Palin's performance - AND SHE HASN'T EVEN done it yet.
The line for purple kool-aid forms for you on Friday morning when the first post-debate polls come in. -
Would he ride a Triceratops or a Braichasaurs to church? He was into non-violence, so no T-Rex. Definitely a plant-eating dinosaur for Him.
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Everyone mock the man who's probably never seen a second of public television in his life, much less taken the time to actually research the moderators of Presidential debates himself, much less researched the context behind the silly crafted narratives that so many people in partisan demagoguery outfits spew.
Enjoy your Michelle Malkin-fed eternal anger, friend-o. We in the thinking majority of the country (Republican and Democratic) will move on to better things, like the issues actually facing us in the world and the choices at stake in this election. Enjoy being a Betamax douchebag in a Blu-Ray world.
haha Nuking the Fridge... if CW is running it, will they cut in dramatic contemporary pop music and replace the candidates with hot brooding teenagers? And will Gwen Ifill be replaced with Jackee? -
the mccain campaign knew who was moderating the debate when they made the agreement with the obama campaign...and they knew that ifill was writing the book at the time...the fact remains that palin doesnt know shit about national issues...and while herc was good enuf to post the 20 year old clip of biden acting the fool, he neglected to post one clip of palin and her "blizzard of words" answers to relatively simple questions...mccain thinks that the run for prez is a big fucking joke...and he is right...his run is a big fucking joke...and palin is the big fucking punchline...and she better pray to her false god that she wins...cuz when she returns to alaska, she is in for a big surprise....i would suggest that she google "impeachment"...hope she enjoys womens prison and that todd is as good a house hubby as he says he is...cuz that is where that bitch is headed....guaranteed
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dumbass piece of shit...biden said he was "forced down" in afghanistan...never said he was shot down...he was forced down by inclimate weather....get your fucking facts straight...oh ya, and he thought that roosevelt spoke to the nation on tv and forgot that roosevelt wasnt prez in 29...wilson the ahole who caused the depression was....and how did wilson cause the depression...but pulling the same shit that bush has with this fucking bailout....look it up...use the google....stop listenting to rush...he has rotted your already tiny little mind....I HATE WINGNUTS...I REALLY DO...NOT ONE HAS ONE REDEEMING QUALITY...AND WHEN I AM KING...OFF TO GITMO THEY AND ALL THEIR TOOTHLESS, INBRED, CHILD MOLESTING COUSINS GO
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How political discussions bring out the oh-so-best qualities of people. If you are unable to make a statement without slinging insults, it demonstrates a lack of objectivity and rationale discourse. Making unflattering comments about the other side does not prove your point.
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There are mormons (like me) that visit this site you ass. (I still love you though.)
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Enlightened, intelligent liberal discussion here, no? Heh. You people do the political left so proud.
Anyway, Palin is aggressive, competitive, and can zing with the bst of them. she will do fine in the debate. Her detractors on the left and right have done nothing but prove their affection for the middle class (wo)man cannot survive actually meeting one.
You all stay classy, now. -
Though the sad thing is, all Sarah Palin has to do is 'okay' and she'll come out with a 'moral victory'. Judas Priest am I glad I'm Canadian.
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That last video is The Office levels of uncomfortable.
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I hope this comes out tonight.
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Palin is an absolute insult. Seriously, she is unable to answer any question without falling back to catch phrases and buzz words.
She has no understanding of our constitution, supreme court rulings, or even environmental issues.
This is a person we want in public office?
Can someone just make one LEGIT reason why she'll be qualified? All we have so far is that she can "Zing" with the "bst of them".
It's not about being "classy", it's about taking a good hard look at the people we want running our country. -
if you support this woman after her appearances this week, you're a fucking moron. she's a liar who's way in over her head. she may not be a bad person, but she's bascially bush with a bush.
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sheeit, that's my new line
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"That surely dooes sound like a mighty big mess that needs a fixin guys and gals."
And America breathes easier knowing Palin is a heartbeat away from being in charge of this Cataclysmic Economic Clusterfuck.
BTW she's had at least 22 debates already but they are purely Alaskan Local Politics. So Yes, she knows how to give the non-answers and soundbites fed to her by her handlers but will that be enough with 2 intractable Wars and a disintegrating Economy to deal with ? -
She hasn't learned how to side step a question like a pro. That will come in time.
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So why the surprise that the far right bloggers McCain staffers and Fox News types are trying to smear Ifill before the debate begins ?
Before the night is over if she tries to get a straight reply out of Palin or one that requires more than a Yes No answer the McCain Campaign and their "little helpers" will be screaming that she is a "SEXIST! Douchebag!" while they are screaming that Biden and the rest of the "Gotacha" Media are the same for picking on a poor defenseless Pitbull.
We all know this to be true. -
http://interviewpalin.com/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc
just about sums it up perfectly... -
... where 1 mis-step of the Democrats = 1 mis-step of the Republicans regardless of what we're comparing ...
For your viewing pleasure, "The Many Lies of John McCain".
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
To pre-empt the accusations that The Rolling Stone Magazine is far leftist - is it? Is it really? I hadn't noticed. -
Conservatives are asking a legitimate question about her impartiality. You may recall earlier in the year Democrats refused to participate in a debate run by FOX news even though there were not going to be any Republicans on stage. It seems pretty fair for the republicans to have the same concern. At least Palin is not afraid of the prospect like the democrats were, not that she will getany credit for it.
I am absolutely certain if Brit Hume were moderating this debate at the same time he was writing a book on McCain, leftists would be more up in arms than any conservative has been about Ifill. they would demand he be removed, and if that did not work, demand Biden boycott. Liberals would applaud him for doing so, as well. They do have a history of turning tail and running from conservatives, you know. -
And a little offended, I think.
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the bar is so low with this clown has been so bad so far that not fucking up will be a victory. they are not looking for a real win. they are looking for a not fuck up. I think they'll get it. I think, given the rules of the debate she'll be passable. then watch the right wingers here bang on. all your left wing predictions will have come to nought. it is about expectations. the left has high expectations for biden and low expectations for palin. under these circumstances what in reality is a win for biden can quickly be interpreted as a win for palin.
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read on ...
http://www.progresspolitics.com/2008/10/01/should-tom-brokaw-moderate-the-next-presidential-debate-or-is-he-a-mccain-mouthpiece-who-will-attempt-to-sabotage-obama/
The question that is being asked by a few bloggers is whether Tom Brokaw of Meet the Press will be objective when it comes to his moderating duties in the second presidential debate on October 7th. The second debate will be a townhall meeting format but apparently the moderator will have some power to determine the direction of the meeting. Many are suggesting that Mr. Brokaw may attempt to sabotage Sen. Obama after viewing Meet the Press last Sunday. Further, Media Matters points out Brokaw’s blatant bias for Sen. McCain. The New York Times says that Brokaw is some sort of special “liason” for the McCain campaign. You be the judge. The following was sent out by MoveOn.org:
Sunday on Meet The Press, Tom Brokaw moderated a debate between McCain strategist Steve Schmidt and Obama strategist David Axelrod on topics ranging from Iraq to the Wall Street bailout. At the end, Tom Brokaw did something strange. He opted to give himself the last word and told the audience:
In fairness to everybody here, I’m just going to end on one note. And that is that we continue to poll on who’s best equipped to be Commander in Chief, and John McCain continues to lead in that category despite the criticism from Barack Obama by a factor of 53 to 42 percent in our latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. Gentlemen, thank you very much.1
We checked, and the latest NBC poll actually has no question about Commander in Chief.2 We contacted NBC about this, and it turns out Brokaw was referring to a poll taken weeks ago–right after the Republican convention and well before Friday’s big national security debate.3 And in each of NBC’s last two polls, Americans chose Obama over McCain.4 -
Gee, did someone watch O'Reilly tonight?
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Yeah,I saw O'Rielly tonight. Dick Morris was on. He said that Bill Clinton had no foreign policy experience when he ran for president. Maybe you should have watched it too. Unless you are a pinhead.
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Will mean that your country is completely f@#ked, but as a foreigner and a fan of Bill Maher and Stephen Colbert, their shows will have so much material, they will be in top form.
On a more serious note as a foreigner it baffles me how there is even a contest. The chance of Palin becoming president alone makes it a no contest. -
COMEDY GOLD.
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She admits she didn't tell the debate commission about her book. That was unprofessional and appears to be a conflict of interest. A professional would recuse herself. McCain, being the classy guy he is, said he has no problem and he expects her to be fair. If she isn't, she has seriously damaged her career.
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This chick is a Moron...
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Let's not forget, Joe Biden remembers how FDR went on TV to calm the nation after the 1929 stock market crash.
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You know you don't have to read this shit, right? I mean this IS America, last time I checked.
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You, sir, are flat out wrong with your attack on Krack. Here is a quote from Biden from the youtube presidential debate. "Number one, you take all the troops out - you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die." BIDENS WORDS! YOU are a dumbass piece of shit. Now tell Krack you were wrong and he was right.
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"No way. T Rex in the Garden of Eden? Adam and Eve would be runnin' all the time, scared shitless. But the Bible says it was paradise."
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"Biden is one of the most stupid, stupid men I've ever seen make it as far as he has."
Bush is the other one, right? -
Here is the quote "If you want to know where al-Qaida lives, you want to know where (Osama) bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me. Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are." That, my friends, is called a lie of omission. He is clearly implying his helo was forced down by terrorists for dramatic purposes. He admitted later that it was due to the weather. Would you accept it if VP Biden to spoke to the nation with the same level of honesty? or do you forgive his falsehoods because you like his political bent?
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He said he has been brushing up on his debating skills by watching old camera obscura of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, so I expect big things from him...
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Oct 02, 2008 3:44:57 AM CDT
"watching old camera obscura of the Lincoln-Douglas debates"
by caruso_stalker217
Ha-ha!
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would be a hilarious TV show, and a terrifying reality. I can't believe people actually support this person.
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As a governor she has a 80% approval rating, and her state runs a budget surplus. What has Obama got? He a member of the senate that has a 10% approval rating, and he is from a state in huge trouble. Who did he help? Himself.
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Tom Brokaw was--unwisely, I think--trying to balance out the reputation NBC and MSNBC are getting for being in the tank for Obama. Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews are not going to be allowed anchor duties on election night because of their open bias towards Obama at times when they should have shown objectivity.
I did not see the point of it since MSNBC is like FOX--the entire network has an open bias towards a political party and its audience expects to hear when they watch. -
uh-the-um-America-um-United States-we-will-defend-um-eh-America-When I get an answer I'll get back to ya.oh yeah, it's gonna be fun tonight.
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Did anyone squak back in 2004 when Bob Schieffer moderated one of the Kerry/Bush debates? You know, Bob Schieffer, the guy who is family friends with the Bush clan, and whose brother Tom was even business partners with W...
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We've turned politics into such a joke in this country. For Godsake, AICN, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT, and their ilk cover politics now. Each one giving their opinions with a wink and a nudge or in overt ways. All I ever wanted out of these types of outlets is what they were originally designed for, entertainment news! But I guess there is no getting away from this election. I’m tired of being told what to think, how to think, and getting insulted if I dare think differently.So screw it. I'm not voting. I don't want to be called a neo-con, racist, liberal, or socialist (all oft-misused and overly used terms) because I voted one way or another. I'd rather be that jerk that didn't vote. The guy that you say shouldn't bitch because I didn't make a choice. Fine. I'll be that guy. I'm okay with it. And guess what? I think that’s how a great deal of Americans are feeling. Just look at the low ratings for the first debate. Nearly every F’ing place I go, the questions always come up. “Who’re ya voting for?” “Did you listen to the debates?” “Don’t you hate that McCain?” “How can anyone trust Obama?” “Isn’t that Palin stupid?” “Did you hear what that idiot Biden said?” In supermarket lines, in bars, comic shops, movie lines, or wherever. Man, am I tired of it. Seeing friends insulting each other over their choices. Couples breaking up and people stop dating because they differ on the candidates. Watching people point out a sign on a lawn and making contemptuous insults about the homeowners. The campaigns have gone on for so long that people have lost reason and stopped questioning their own points of view. People seem different this election. Everyone seems brainwashed. If you dare question their candidates manifesto, you are part of the problem. You’re not a fellow American with a differing point of view; you’re a first-class A-hole and should die of cancerous AIDS.I really just don’t care anymore. No voting for me. I’m exercising my basic rights. Leave me out of your focused-grouped, marketed and televised revolutions.
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And how about Katie Couric stepping up to the plate and basically shredding Palin on the installment plan?
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It's comedic gold. If only there could be a dinosaur question. And my house is next to a road, making my an expert on transport policy.
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the worst thing about this, and it's all pretty bad really, is who he plagiarised: That massive failure and laughing stock Neil Kinnock. Twat, although, to be fair, he's marginally less insulting than Palin.
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I've invited my whole building up to watch this. I cannot wait.
Sarah Palin: The comedy gift that keeps on giving. -
is worth masturbating to. Seriously the Mccain/ Obama debate while good, left me limp... not in a good way. I had to finish by watching porn. PORN DAMN U *cry* ahem. anyhoot this should be a damn good debate, which are words I don't think has ever been said about any debate.
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Holy Christ.
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Indeed, the left did. But since CBS had been part of those false documents regarding Bush's National Guard service, nothing came of it. a balancing act, I guess. But unlike Schieffer, Ifill has a book to promote that would benefit from an obama victory.
It does not matter. Both McCain and Palin are fine with her. it is just the rank and conservative supporters who are making a fuss over it.
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and embed it it your post please!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =KTkqosRiyYo
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Gwen Ifill is the consummate pro, the standard to which young journalists aspire. She'll be unquestionably fair.
And her book is about post-Civil Rights era black leaders, profiling Obama as just one of hundreds of subjects.
Much ado about nothing, as usual. -
Palin's approval rating in Alaska has dropped to 68% in the last 3 weeks. There are now 4 governors with higher approval ratings than her. Chalk it up to the truth about her being exposed.
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Comparing Palin to Clinton now? You have to marvel at the mind-numbing twists of logic coming out of the far Right.
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First of all, if a reader is clever enough to make up his/her own mind, another opinion shouldn't disuade them.
Second, nobody forces you to read the political tb's. From the amounts of responds to each of them, clearly there is a definite interest also among tb readers to discuss matters other than cinematic.
Third, it's an illusion that one can be non-biased; everybody is, including you which is clear from your respons.
Fourth, your comment that Pallin should have been asked familial questions so she would have done ok is of a level of lunacy unfortunatley not unique from the gop side of the political spectrum. We are talking about a woman who could one day be president and you're saying that the level of questions put to her should be restricted to staying in her comfort zone? You can honestly demand this with a straight face?
I guess one can only if one considers a geographic proximity to a foreign country counts for experience in foreign policies.
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I love Biden, every day I wake up and look to what he said that will lift my spirits. McCain needs to let Palin pull her head out of her six point of contact and kiss some, you know?
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She was the salutatorian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdFIDygFwM -
There I said it.
She's a lying, vicious, baiting scumbag ... but I would SERIOUSLY turn her inside out.
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I don't think Palin knows what she's doing, and I think Biden is a smug wiseass. For some reason, I may still wanna watch, though. It'd be interesting if Palin DOESN'T embarass herself.
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Quayle debated Bensen back in 1988 and Quayle mostly got his ass kicked. Didn't stop Bush from winning.
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...to open the show and set the mood for Ifill. Oops, I meant to say those really cute and precocious Singing for Change kids will give a heartfelt performance.Seriously, what the fuck is up with that video? That has to be one of the CREEPIEST things I've seen in ages. The little girl who opens it has such a vapid, wasted look in her eyes, probably from her own Mom slipping her some sort of mind altering drug in her kool-aid. But I suppose indoctrinating the youth to sing on behalf of "The Leader" is something that makes Obama smile. Nice to know David Axelrod has Kim Jong-Il on speed dial...
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It's not just a name, huh ?
Like ' Sarah Palin ' ? -
She makes Dan Quayle look like a genius.
It is pretty sad that the Republican party is pushing her because they think they can get the female vote. I hope that undecided women realize the only one of those two who actually cares about them is Biden. His bills protecting them more than speaks for itself. Palin made rape victims pay for their own rape kits. Nothing like blaming the victim. -
I just went and reserved Iron Man from Redbox to watch tonight instead of this crap. Thanks AICN!
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OMG - I love Sarah Palin. I want her to sit on my lap and whisper foreign policy points in my ear.... that would be hot.
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That was a rhetorical question I was asking about Rolling Stone Magazine. We Australians do tend to lay the sarcasm on pretty thick but it may not always be completely apparent in text.
I read somewhere that Dan Qualye is worth 500 hundred million dollars.
There is no God. -
I don't know why my usually reliable spelling skills go fubar on this site.
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That they give each canidate 2 mintutes to talk and watch Palin destroy herself with him mindless chatter. I know water cooler politicans that can talk a point better than her. Palin is just a demographic template, she was to be seen as a maverick choice, woo the Militant Hiliary Dikes and get the pro-lifers in for McCain. No one bothered to really talk to her and notice that she IS A FUCKING RETARD. "one 72 year old's heartbeat away from being President" indeed.
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...but according to the Christers, all animals lived peacefully until Eve munched into that apple and brought sin into the world. T-Rex was a peaceful plant-eater who used his 6-inch long, serrated, daggerlike teeth to crack open coconuts so Eve could bake up German chocolate cake for everyone... or some such loony shit.
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Damn You Michael Bay
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First of all, to BizarroJerry and following up on your post, keep in mind that historically the so-called pundits in the media felt Reagan lost to Carter, that Quayle had crippled and ruined all of Bush I's chances, and that Bush II lost resoundingly to Gore AND then lost badly to Kerry, too......And yet on Election Day, as you pointed out, the American people showed that they didn't agree AT ALL with the so-called intelligentsia.Personally, that's why I don't give a crap about the post-debate shows -- to be fair and unbiased across the board -- because they ALL start spinning so much that it's rather pathetic and disheartening. And headache inducing, so keep your Tylenol handy. Actual discussion goes out the window on behalf of pure punditry and what's the point of that? Seriously, do you really think you're going to get a balanced opinion from EITHER Sean Hannity OR Keith Olbermann?The worst part of this being that we've now reached the ridiculous point where the freakin' media starts calling something BEFORE it's even taken place -- be it politics or a sporting event or whatever. For crying out loud, why can't today's newscasters just DO their fucking job and report things accurately and then leave the discussions to the American people at large? Seriously, does anyone just simply report the news anymore on any of these so-called news channels or is EVERYONE a paid commentator these days?
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Show her your pipeline. That'll throw her in a tizzy.
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...I mean, how can anyone be such a complete neanderthal, not to mention asshole douchebag, to actually make rape victims pay for their own evidence collection kits? Where is the outrage? The reason she did it is because most rape kits contain the "morning after pill" to ensure the victim doesn't get pregnant. The Christers are against the morning after pill or any form of birth control. Can't have that 8-cell blob of undifferentiated tissue (in Christer-speak: "pre-born baby") getting flushed out of the ambulatory womb (Christer view of women)! Also in the Christer worldview a woman who was raped was asking for it. It's amazing how much the Christers are similar to radical Muslims. They even like to blow up buildings (Timothy McVeigh) just like their cave-dwelling cousins in Afghanistan!
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...W DID lose resoundingly to Gore in the 2000 election. The Repubs then staged a coup using the judges they bought on the Supreme Court and their talking heads in the Repub-owned MSM to smooth over all discrepancies. Kerry would have won in the Electoral College count if the Repubs hadn't rigged the vote in Ohio. Go read a book instead of getting all your info from Rush Limbaugh!
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...hates all immigrants and anyone lighter-skinned than her lesbian lover Ann Coulter. Which is odd considering she's a freaking Phillipino.
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Lunalu, for crying out loud, if you don't like a candidate at the very least do some minimal research to find out the TRUTH as opposed to continually spreading BULLSHIT LIES.She did NOT try to charge rape victims for their kits. In fact, this whole rape kit story has long since been debunked, and it isn't even a Palin story.The Chief of Police in Wasilla (NOT Palin) had a policy of asking a victim’s Health Insurance Company to pay for the rape kit as part of their ER visit. And for the record, that's actually a policy employed in several states. This became an issue only because the PREVIOUS governor of Alaska (NOT Palin) signed a bill forbidding it. It was signed into law BEFORE Palin was even Governor.Ultimately, it boils down to something very simple: rather than sticking the cost of the kit to the victim OR even to the municipality and the local taxpayers, the Chief of Police in Wasilla (NOT Palin) wanted to charge the PERPETRATOR of the crime for any and all costs -- which frankly makes the most sense from a criminal justice standpoint. Seriously, send the bastard to jail AND stick him with all the legal/medical bills of the victim.
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The thing is that she hasn't really been making verbal gaffes, but rather just seems to be completely out to lunch.
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My half-wacked, senile, Uncle Joe is a more reliable source than Limbaugh.
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Strike Three. Yellow Card. Technical Foul. You may as well have said "idiotarian." Thanks for playing!
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It is completely unknown how she felt about the matter. One can argue one side or the other. She did not come out against the police chief who was completely for that practice of billing out the cost of rape kits to the woman and/or insurance companies. Nor did she come out and condone that practice either. I don't see how it's proof either way. We just don't know.But I do disagree to an extent that it's not a Palin story, since she was mayor during that time when the police chief was very forthcoming in how he felt about the practice.
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re: Rape Kits Palin knew full fucking well that uninsured rape victims would potentially be charged for the rape kit. This, admittedly, is not the same as presenting a rape victim with a bill, and not one victim was ever charged. However, it is bad enough that she was aware of the potential for this to happen, and lack the sympathy/ compassion to do something about it. BTW, the perpetrator being charged thing is absolute hogwash- you cannot enforce this bill until he would be convicted- which could be months or years down the line. In the meantime the victim was going to have to foot the bill. The rape kit thing is the one unequivocally appaling thing on her record (everything else can be argued about)- and personally I think it's dreadful enough to disqualify her from the race. Mind you, I also think lots of the arguable things are dreadful enough to disqualify her as well.
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no that only works if you show her your pipeline and then whisper "god made it" in her ear.
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Putting a tool like Matt Damon on this political site, I like my entertainment separate from politics, oh oops they are the same thing.
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I haven't laughed this hard in months (from the various comments) but I appreciate the 'passion' of both sides.
I think this debate will mark a significant crossroads in the election. From the accounts I've read, Palin should not be underestimated in debates and can most certainly hold her own. I dont anticipate a KO. However 90 minutes is a long ime to maintain. It's possible as the debate wears on, she may drop her guard. Unfortunately she will have to practically score a KO against Biden to lift public confidence in her. She will only have one VP debate so she will have to make it good.
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but arbitrarily throw the word "lesbian" around at women you don't like, along with deriding and collectively labeling a whole group of people you disagree with as "Christers."
At least you're not attacking the "'coons" and "chinks," huh?
There are obviously some major differences between a racial group and a religious group, but the act of isolating and demonizing a group of people to marginalize their beliefs and arguments is petty and no more than intellectual cowardice.
Hell, just writing something off as "liberal propaganda" can be just as bad.
I hope you're joking, because I can't take you seriously. And I don't even have a dog in this Palin/Biden fight!
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Oct 02, 2008 8:32:08 AM CDT
Augh, I promised myself I wouldn't get involved with politics
by shut the fuck up donny
on this damn site. I'm just throwing gasoline on the fire.
I LIKE SUPERMAN, STAR WARS, BOOBIES, AND KRAFTWERK. -
and tell her you'll "drill baby, drill".
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that you're all for deforesting the Alaskan wilderness.
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What's next? Is the PS3 blu-ray player better than the 360 HD player?
Oh, hello all you dumb-asses making your bullshit political amateur commentary. -
Both of these guys showed us last week how neither one of them is a leader. We have this financial crisis, one showed up and made a fool of himself, and the other just said call me if you need me. Neither one of them has any business running for president. One guy's claim to fame is that he got captured, and the other one has been propped up by the Chicago underworld. This country is in serious trouble. This will not change untill the people rise up & start seriously voting for independents.
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Walk the Pipeline...
Clear Cut....
I read whatever is put in front of me...
It's about Trade and Putin's Ugly Head... -
Ron Paul lost, just accept it.
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Probably not. But I'm certain that the McOldy camp picked someone that could easily be called "in the tank" for Obama just so they can claim that Sarah Palin's horrific performance in the debate was some kind of "media bias." It's the same kind of BS the RepCons have been pulling out since Reagan's decrepit evil ass.
http://tinyurl.com/3sjqcy -
It's a thread devoted to the debate. People will come here and throw around their views, right or wrong. It's still their right to express them in a POLITICAL thread. Why did you come to a POLITICAL thread and decide to take a shot at everyone? Why not go to Vern's Seagal thread and tell everyone what a worthless prize it is next?Dumbass.
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Well, actually isn't GW Bush meant to be the leader at the moment with this crisis?
How's that working out by the way? -
This chick is hilarious to watch. The more she speaks..the more I laugh.
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on TV. If Palin doesn't have an "emergency" which causes her to back out at the last minute.
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that prize would be useless for me as my region 1 DVD player went the way of the dodo last week.
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...NOT looking like an idiot. Says she prefers to appear dumb since it makes it easier to sneak up on the moose that way.
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People need to be honest with themselves and just accept her for what she is - a reckless political/strategic choice that disqualifies her senior running mate from Presidential consideration.
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Palin's going to bring her A Game. She's fine when she is prepped and versed o ntalking points which is all debates are now. Expect a battle.
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Oct 02, 2008 9:50:01 AM CDT
Rickey says "thanks but no thanks!" the The Bridge to Tarabithia
by rickey henderson
Sooooo.... there's some sort of debate tonight eh? How curious! Rickey is fascinated to hear this! What's the over/under on Jesus appearing in the middle of the debate and rapturing away Caribou Barbie?
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that title should've read: Rickey says "thanks but no thanks!" to the The Bridge to Tarabithia. For fuck's sake, Rickey can't even tell a joke properly...
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...I really think that guy's smart. I wonder why he didn't decide to run for president. He's so smart. He's Matt Damon.
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...Matt Damon.
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Matt Damon!
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Its amazing to me the stark differences between the two. Hillary was a good presidential nominee who just happened to be a woman. Just like Obama running for president. Palin is a woman running for VP of the USA. Woman first. Nothing she does convinces you otherwise. Everything she says is cringe inducing and embarassing. They can let her loose and stop hyping up these individual interviews to distasterious results. Or continue to keep her on a short leash and thus making each single interview that much more news worthy. Either way they lose. Tonights debate will only further expose her inability to speak honestly. The more she tries to tell you what she THINKS you want to hear the worse she looks. She's so green it makes me embarassed just watching her.
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tested for GSR after Vince turned up dead?
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I doubt we'll get any fun back n forths...they made it so they only have 90 seconds to answer each question. WTF is up with that? Pandering to the newb?
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Oct 02, 2008 10:00:40 AM CDT
Joe Biden will Swallow Sarah Palin Whole in Broad Daylight!!!!!
by rickey henderson
PS: Rickey would direct your attention to the only debate preview worth giving a damn about:
http://tiny.cc/eiNMg -
Oct 02, 2008 10:00:54 AM CDT
I think that if you have financial institutions...
by banzai rootskibango
...falling apart on election day or the day before...then Obama has a good chance of winning...if this bailout calms things down then I don't think he's going to win.
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...but an infant, begging to suckle at Sarah Palin's magnificent bosom. Mark my words.
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and she would be triumphant tonight. I'm anxious, and hoping Biden is able to rise to the occasion against this formidable chick.
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Not sure I can stand it long enough to watch the debate.
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Oct 02, 2008 10:06:31 AM CDT
I SAID THANKS, BUT NO THANKS, TO COFFEE AND DESSERT
by bringingsexyback
I prefer to eat out my wife after a nice dinner.
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The debate rules aren't really going to allow for a "battle". This works in Palin's favor because they allow her to spout off her recently memorized talking points in perfect sound-byte style without threat of confrontation or challenge.As for Biden, I think the best thing for him to do is to just act like Palin isn't even there...which is sort of true anyway.
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I need to find a warm, inviting mouth to urinate in....
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She's a fucking genius. Going on Katie Couric and being completely unable to name one Supreme Court ruling she disagreed with.
Rickey does agree with you in that the media has set the bar incredibly low for Palin. If she shows up for the debate and manages not to poop in her Star Trek outfit, it will probably be considered a win for her. -
Oct 02, 2008 10:09:52 AM CDT
"Let's not start sucking each other's dicks quite yet."
by dannyglovers_dickblood
I haven't heard that line since the 3rd Grade.
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Oct 02, 2008 10:10:17 AM CDT
Rickey Said "thanks but no thanks!" to the Bridge on the River K
by rickey henderson
Fuck yes, here we go bitches....
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That's what I meant.
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I think Jack find a weak spot in Iron Man's armor and win.
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The Bridge on the River Kwai!
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So you're 13 years old? It's from Pulp Fiction.
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Can any of you give a LEGITIMATE reason that her possible creationsit beliefs affect her ability to run the country? Other than just "because it's stupid and/or crazy to think that" because many great, intelligent people in human history have believed in creation (even after Darwin came along).
Accepting creation or evolution has nothing to do with foreign policy, with the current economic situation, or any other major issue facing this country. -
The Bridges of Madison County!
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The Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge!
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and that's saying something.
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Palin dropped to only 68% approval? She's only top 5 now? Well damn then, I guess you are right about her then. Bullshit! Most Pols would kill for that high a rating. Oh, and it was Dick Morris making the comparison to Clinton, not me. Rhodes scholar? So what. Cecil Rhodes was gay and only created the scholarship to keep his stable full.
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You sucked dicks in the third grade? what kind of school did you go to???
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The obvious answer is that in this allegedly enlightened day and age to believe in creationism seems to be either unbelievably stubborn or a sign of stupidity. The question being do you want someone either that stupid or so stubborn in the face of all available evidence available as President.
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The cost overruns would be immense!
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Rape kits. I am glad you care so much about victims. I can only assume you agree with me that Obamas opposition to Born Alive Infant Protection Act disqualifies him as well. For Christs sake, he thinks it's OK to leave a delivered baby to die. No other way to spin it. Don't believe me? You tube Gianna Jessen.
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Point #1: Palin is no longer most popular governor in Ameerca. That's now a false claim.
Point #2: 12 point drop in Alaska in only 3 weeks. That's significant.
Point #3: Rhodes Scholarship. Your average 10 year old can use a computer. But you don't compare him to Steve Jobs. -
I would argue that her reported SPECIFIC creationist belief would mean that she wouldn't be fit to run the country. Note that I said specific. It's a different thing to be a creationist who simply believes that there is a God who was responsible for the creation of life on earth than it is to believe specifically that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth simultaneously and that the bible is a LITERALLY TRUE accounting of the history of the world. To me, a belief that humans and dinosaurs were on the earth at the same time is indicative of being either uninformed, incurious, or unintelligent. Me? I'd prefer a leader of the free world who is informed, curious, and intelligent. It's not so much about issues per se as it is about the ideological underpinnings of the candidate, and I think that's fair game for whomever is running for an office this large.
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If you are a true believer of creationism, and if you truly believe the earth is between 6,000 to 10,000 years old....then you are fucking idiot.
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Here's a list of modern and historical scientists who would probably resent becing called "stupid or so stubbon in the face of all available evidence". http://tiny.cc/1cpoq
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It's possible. With God, anything is possible.
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Isn't it from Reservoir Dogs?
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Oct 02, 2008 10:26:05 AM CDT
I SAID THANKS, BUT NO THANKS, TO A PAIR OF HARRY'S USED UNDERWEA
by bringingsexyback
Love ya, Harry, but ... no thanks!!!!
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Saying that someone lacks curiosity or is uninformed... have you ever taken the time to read creationsit claims or information? Not trying to make it a personal attack, but if you're going to use that line of reasoning against someone else, it stands to reason that you should be curious and open to reading about other people's thoughts yourself.
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She's been on a small stage in her 10 yr political career. This is a HUGE stage she's on now and her whopping 2-3 interviews are the only thing people (outside if Alaska) have to size her up. We've yet to see her A game.
Biden has been sitting the Foreign Relations Committee for what...30 yrs? He's a Washington dinosaur and a known commoditee. We have years of commentary from him.
Obama and Palin are the 2 lightweights in these campaigns...but I don't buy the'lack of foreign policy experience' slam for either of them and here's why: If Obama is prez (or Palin hypothetically)they will be advised and brought up to speed by hundreds of advisors, specialists and experts. Within 1 year they will be up to speed on everything they need. The president does not make decisions in a vaccuum -
That was in the Craig-Foley Act of 2005. Didn't pass, thank God.
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that is bullshit and you fucking know it. Fuck's sake.
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Take a drink anytime Palin says Alaska, hockey or media elite. Drink when Biden says change, Bush or Iraq. Any other suggestions?
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Google "Palin Appeared To Endorse Hamas In Couric Interview"
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Not to get competely off track, but regarding dino's and man living together...
The creationist model calls for rapid speciation after the garden of Eden. There wouldn't have been the variety of dinosaurs (particularly flesh eating as everything was initially vegetarian) at the start. Life spread rapidly across the face of the earth, and natural selection factors led to the diversification of all the animal kingdom.
Things spread out in all directions, with humans staying primarily close together. So there could have been very little actual interaction.
According to the biblical creationist model, the dino's would have died out rapidly after the flood due to drastic changes in the global climate. -
That act is just a stepping stone to outlawing abortion and you know it. It's not leaving "delivered" babies to die. It's not allowing attempted aborted fetuses to die against the wishes of the person requesting the abortion. And how often does that happen? Almost never.
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Anytime Palin says "Ameerca".
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that's hilarious. You put up a link to a cretionous Genesis site. Wow, I'm convinved now.
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Get used to it.
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which is ironic.
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Now that i have your attention... anyone who votes for McCain and Palin hate America. They dont truly care about America like they say they do, all they care about is making money off of hard working americans to line their pockets and so McCain can buy a few more houses to keep his trophy wife happy.
Even with all that being said.. how could you honestly vote for a creepy old man like him... he reminds me of a pedophile at times... has that devious smile... like the cheshire cat on crack. Palin is a complete moron.. she has no idea what she is talking about. They pushed her into McCains compound to fill her empty head with their so called facts, so its like she is craming for her midterm, hoping she doesnt fail. But when her answers come out and she really doesnt know what she is talking about, the people will see this and fail her. Being the Governor of the 2nd least populated state doesnt mean you have experience. A mayor of a major city like Los Angeles or Chicago would have more experience, since the population of a city is 10 fold over the state of Alaska. Plus she is a moron for even saying she can see Russia from her home... maybe she can if she has x-ray vision and has eagle eyes that can see through mountains and a country a couple hundred miles away across a ocean. It would be like me saying i can see Chicago from my house in Detroit... its fucking moronic. -
...the world is only 6,000 yrs old. I MYSELF THINK IT'S LUDICROUS.
But isn't it just as ludicrous to believe in Noah's Ark; world creation in 6 days; the Virgin Birth; God giving His message directly to Mohammed; Moses parting the Red Sea? etc.
Our greatest presidents and other office holders believed just that...it doesn't make these things true.
Frankly, her believing the Earth is only 6,000 yrs old has as much relevance to me as what she had for dinner last night. -
Yup. I have. Generally speaking, the "literal creationists" (there are many different belief systems that are labeled creationist, but I'm focusing on this one because that one is the one most closely aligned with what Palin is reported to have said) generally believe that the earth is somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years old. They believe that all fossil evidence was planted simultaneously at the time of the great flood. They believe that all existing animals are descendant from the animal pairings that Noah brought on the Ark. They believe that man and dinosaurs were co-existant. These are the general beliefs of what I'm calling a "Literal Creationist." The problems with these beliefs is that when viewed against the evidence that exists in the natural world (i.e. carbon dating of fossils that clearly go back much farther than 10,000 years and that clearly show different time periods for dinos and men, ice cores that show annual cycles of thawing and re-freezing that go back much much farther than 10,000 years, etc.), these beliefs cannot literally be accepted as true unless you discount MOUNTAINS of data. Again, I'm not saying every creationist believes these things, but from what Palin's reported as saying, it sounds like she's one of the ones who does.
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the best format for testing a candidate since you don't really get two people directly confronting each other on each issue (something Lehrer tried with Obama and McCain) but rather we just hear them falling back to their usual talking points. The Sunday morning talk show circuit, one on one interviews and answering questions at a press conference are far better. These formats usually allow the person asking the question to dig a little bit beyond the default talking points. And for the real test, Obama/Biden should go on Fox News (I know Obama's been on O'Reilly) and McCain/Palin (I don't know if McCain's been on MSNBC since the Republican convention) should go on MSNBC in a series of one on one interviews.
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you know the Repubs got a new hi-tech reciever in her glasses to help her along tonight...
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Sorry, it is allowing "delivered alive fetuses" to die, if that language makes it easier to swallow for you. Read the account from the nurse who discovered a baby left to die in a closet. It happens more often that you would think. Also, the same legislation passed in the US Senate 98-0. Are you telling me that Obama saw it right and EVERY democrat in the senate was wrong? This is an indefensible position my friend. Admit it.
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Reminds me of those photos from back in the day of the square on W's back during the debate. He was being fed lines too.
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Disqualified. And Obama says "uh" and "um" a lot when his teleprompter is off.
What a buch of school girls. -
Although that comment about being able to see russia was stupid, you wouldn't need to be superman to do it. Russia is only 3.5miles (I think) away from Alaska ta their nearest points.
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And I expect it to be kinda blah...... I don't think there be any fireworks. McPlain made sure that the rules were tight. Only 90 seconds to answer with little time to debate. They thought it would be to dangerous for Fail-in Palin to have to much time so she doesn't spew her psycho babble.
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i never knew that...does not suprise me at all. I'm gonna be keepin an eye on you Palin!
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Provide me with the link to that alleged account and maybe I will. And, yes, every other Democrat was wrong. And spineless.
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From Anchorage or Wasilla she would.
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this line pisses me off. There was immortal fish, the ninja counsellor, on the other day waffling on about nurses putting foetuses in fucking tumble dryers or what ever stupidity. What. A. Load. Of. Bollocks.
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But see, that ignores arguments againt carbon dating and the claim that ice layers are annual. Such as the "lost squadron" of World War 2 that was found under hundreds of feet of ice.
Carbon dating is highly questionable. There are many cases of it giving VASTLY different dates for the same sample, or of giving dates to the effect of "1 million years, give or take 1 million years." -
Yes, it's a link to a creationist site giving a list of current known scientists who accept creation. Who else would put up a list of scientists who accept creation, when the evolutionist claim is that "all scientists accept evolution"?
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She's correct by accident, and it isn't what she meant.
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without the spaces. Look into it.
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I'll give you the point, no longer #1, but at least you admit that she was at one point. That's something. Tell me, when were Biden of Obama #1 at anything? Well, Obama was # 2 in terms of money donated from Freddie mac and fannie mae. That's almost as good. Also, reread my post, it was Dick Morris making the comparison, I was just letting you know what he said.
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I believe that the whole universe was created by some giant space being sneezing and I live in fear of the coming of the handkerchief.
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I have to go to the dr then get to class. Feel free to go back to your regularly scheduled republican/creationist bashing.
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am looking forward to the coming Obama police state.
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is still at least 900,000 years longer than her belief system will allow.
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Will do.
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Meaning? Bush is the one that signed the PATRIOT Act and created the DHS which is akin to Nazi Gewmany's SS.
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Look it up yourself, any link I send you you would dismiss as right wing nuttiness. Joe Biden voted for it, so if he is wrong and spineless, how can you support him?
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You'd be surprised at what an allegedly left wing government gets up to. Look at the UK for what is going to happen, because believe you me Obama=Blair.
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Oh go fuck yourself. You got one thing on our guys...and you're gonna try and convince us we shouldn't support him. Yeah....sure. I'll be sure and listen to you. I would vote for Kim Jong muthafuckin' il before I would EVER consider voting for McCain. He is the lowest form of slime. He will lose....and idiots like you will shut the fuck up...eventually.
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Oct 02, 2008 11:00:12 AM CDT
You people also need to remember that she tried to BAN BOOKS!
by nam0krut
FOR GODSAKES! I dont care if she only "ASKED" about banning books, but the fact that she even considered something like that should SCARE THE HOLY FUCK OUT OF ALL OF YOU!! If this woman becomes prez, there will be no more aicn no more movies no more tv, except 700 club, and veggie tales
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You guys are going down Saturday night!Go Uconn!
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Oct 02, 2008 11:02:12 AM CDT
I agree Jarv.....liberal control is dangerous as well...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...any government with too much power is dangerous. If liberals had absolute control of all government in the late 80s/ early 90s....they would have banned all violence in video games. ALL violence.......fuck that.
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Use the cucumber to fuck yourself in the ass!!
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I voted for the first time for Bob Dole (proudly), and for the second time for Bush (questioningly), and for the third time for Bush (to my everlasting shame), so I've been conflicted for the past several years as I began to feel less and less like a Republican. I was undecided and iffy on McCain five weeks ago, and he lost me completely when he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. This has everything to do with her being inexperienced, incurious about politics, and seemingly completely disengaged from current events. This has NOTHING to do with her believing the book of Genesis to be literal truth. Believing the book of Genesis to be literal truth, by the way, demands belief that dinosaurs and man co-existed. It does not demand that it was 6000 years ago that this happened, as the Bible gives no date for Creation, and scholars have simply infered this from the simplest possible reading of the text. Anyway...believing in the literal truth of Genesis is a crime that up to SIXTY PERCENT OF AMERICA is guilty of. With all the wars that Christians, Jews, and Muslims have fought over their beliefs, all three are right in line on believing the literal truth of Genesis. All that to say, there are dozens of reasons why Sarah Palin should not be Vice President of the United States. Belief in a religious principle that a majority of America agrees on (no matter how backward and dangerous intelectuals may call it) isn't one of them.
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I was arguing the "one thing" against lost jarv's "one thing" the rape kit story. He said( first) that the single issue dq's Palin, I countered with 1 issue against Obama. "Shut the fuck up" Hmm, a brilliant debate technique. Did you learn it during your online GED class? If you would really rather have Kim Jong as president, well then Obamas your man. He will set us on that path.
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I think that is rubbish.
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I found your story on a pro-life blog. And your language of "left to die in a closet" is misleading to say the least. First off it happened in 1985. Who knows what procedures are now. Regardless the aborted fetus was put in a bedpan and taken to service room where all aborted fetuses were taken. Your language conjures images of the fetus being swept up and thrown on the floor of a janitor's clost next to a wet mop. It's dishonest. To say nohting of the gaps in logic in the account I read. The "shivering, whimpering, gasping infant" was taken to the service room where a nurse took it and cleared it's air passages" Really gasping with uncleared air passages? Gotcha.
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I find that statement pretty ironic considering you just spent 8 years gradually losing your liberties to the Patriot Act and dozens of other Republican measures to restrict your liberties and spy on you. All of which the democrats fought against. You guys can be so delusional it's mindblowing sometimes.
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I'm not here to debate. If you are defending John McCain than you are a functioning retard. Grow a fucking brain and think man. McCain is a piece of fucking shit. I'm tired of hearing people defend this asshole. Let me guess....you worship him because he is an American hero and puts COUNTRY FIRST-- right? Oh fuck off. There are my debate skills....and here is my penis-- now blow.
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Sounds like complete propaganda horseshit. And I've said all along that I think Obama is a shit candidate. I just think he's better than Palin.
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Well, If you think being put in a bedpan alive is OK, I guess there's nothing else I can say to you.
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Put words in the mouths of others you foul sack of period blood. Nobody is saying this sort of behavior is acceptable. Hobo is saying it could be grossly exaggerated or just pure propaganda as Jarv has pointed out. How the fuck do we know these accounts to be true? Why-- because a conservative blog said so. They would never lie or exaggerate right? Fuck that. You go ahead and have your fun running around telling everyone that Obama supporters love killing babies. Yeah...fuck you.
Obviously if this is happening it is disgusting and needs to be fixed. Obama should have never supported something like this.....but does that mean I wouldn't vote for him? Fuck no. -
If you believe Bush was bad at restricting freedoms (and I agree that he has, though maybe not to the degree you believe) then wait till Obama gets in power. He's already showing a predilection for stifling dissent.
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Where did I state I was a Republican? Link please. Because for all of my life I've never EVER put a D or R after my name.
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Oct 02, 2008 11:25:49 AM CDT
Almost 85% of REPUBLICANS secretly hate Palin as VP pick
by shiftyeyeddog2
...and this is from a survey done by a Republican publication! Republicans see just how bad she is, how she's completely unqualified, and she's making HUGE blunders that are further hurting their chances.
Oh, they'll defend her to others and try to spin things to say why she's a great pick and qualified, but behind closed doors they're like "McCain...WTF did you do??!!!?" -
OK you say it's disgusting, and you say that Obama shouldn't have (opposed) it. You and I agree it's disgusting. Why didn't Obama? What do you think his thought process was? That's what bothers me about him. Stop screaming invectives at me for worrying about this issue. Try some thoughtful contamplation.
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He is after all an original Maverick
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Okay. It is good of you to show concern over this issue. I agree with you...shit like that is wrong. I don't know Obama's thought process on this and I don't claim to. But I do know I agree with him on 85% of his other views.
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How can you fuck up the name of the guy with the biggest dick in the industry? They used to call him "The Pressure Washer" back in the day.
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This is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue. This person is simply too inarticulate, inexperienced, and dim to hold the VP post. This is perhaps best shown in her Good guys vs. Bad guys dichotomy of Middle Eastern politics...
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I loved him in Grand Prickx....Grand Prix
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sheesh, and you guys say liberals are bad? all you guys do is whine. "ZOMG the media's out to get us! it's all a big conspiracy!" maybe if the GOP would stop fucking up, you would get better press. funny how they were all over Mccain's nuts after he announced Palin. don't blame us cause no one likes you, blame Mccain and his need to support your boy Bush's failed policies.
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Just curious. How does a little more regulation in business and a little more attention to education and job creation translate to some kind of locked-down communist state? Please, someone give me a clue here. . .
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"if the teacher's tale is true, don’t we all feel a little less concerned about Mitt Romney’s use of magic underwear?"Harry Reid is a morman. Hence, he also believes in magic underwear. But he's a Democrat, so that makes it all okay.We should be way more concerned about the man that thinks he's talking to a little boy that lives in the bottom of a well. The same man that honestly believes he will bring about the apocalypse. But the Obamessiah has decreed that Iran is a small country that poses no threat, so it's okay, so that makes it all okay.
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"Can any of you give a LEGITIMATE reason that her possible creationsit beliefs affect her ability to run the country?"
In exercise of her confirmed creationist beliefs she demonstrates that she either does not understand or care to abide by the principle of separation of church and state. She has publicly stated that she thinks 'intelligent creation' should be taught in school as part of the science curriculum. This is nothing more than a ploy by creationists to promote their religion in the schools.
Believing in creation theology is not necessarily a problem. Using a position of authority to promote it is. -
The Conservative whining about everything since 2003 has been so shrill, I think I lost the ability to hear the tone altogether.
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Oct 02, 2008 11:36:42 AM CDT
Platypus, Because if Obama Wins Then the Terrorist Will Have Won
by darfurontherocks
Scare tactics 101
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I heard he slammed Kathy Bates' piss fenders until they were blue. He fucks until he's numb. The only thing that can stop him is a commercial free broadcast of Big Trouble In Little China.
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Fucking crybaby shit heads. There's no dearth of sources for their propaganda, they just want to have it all.
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The McCain of 2000? I had respect for that guy. I still probably wouldn't have voted for him (in what SHOULD be the bedrock difference between Repubs and Demos - the size of the government and its proper role in serving its citizens - I generally come down on the Democratic side of the line), I at least felt like the guy wasn't kowtowing to some bullshit right wing that's made the Republican party less about smaller government and more about different big government. In his 2K run, he had some of his own ideas, and he wasn't afraid of that. Then the G.W. campaign swift boated him and sunk him, and ever since, it's been a slow process of capitulation to the new "ideals" of the Republican party - especially in the last 12 - 18 months. The McCain of 2000 didn't freak me out; this year's model really does.
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...and that's sad. I usually enjoy the company of those crusty old fucks.
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I get what he's saying about Palin, but does he really believe Obama is any more qualified than Sarah Palin? Apparently, he doesn't realize that the bigger concern is that Obama will be gaining the presidency, not the vice presidency. I want to know more about what Obama supports, why he didn't vote on bills that he should have.. those speak louder to me than someone's religious views.
Further proof that celebrities have no idea how to speak to the common populace of this country. -
Maybe if I break it down in bullet form it will be easier for you simps to digest.
1)Dinosaurs are robots created by humans in the future from an alternate timeline.
2)They were sent back in time billions of years to the past to battle Xenu, and prevented him from stacking humans around volcanoes and blowing them up with hydrogen bombs.
3)Once they accomplished their mission, the dinosaurs lived with the freed humans until they eventually broke down and died. They have a limited operating life, much like a light bulb.
4)Dinosaurs operated on a special fuel from the alternate future, their bodies were able to reuse this fuel indefinitely (until they "died"). Once dead, over billions of years their bodies broke down, leaving only endoskeletal remains. Their fuel seeped deep into the earth, and became the "fossil fuels" that we use today.
Read between the lines and you can figure out where Palin gets her claims about dinosaurs and humans living together, figure out how Scientology isn't true (but it was in an alternate timeline), etc. It's not hard folks.
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Truth Squad. Annenberg vs Kurtz. Accountable America. His days as an "unopposed" state legislator. Seriously, if the party-affiliation were reversed, half the people on this TB would be screaming "this guy's gonna bring this country in a police state!"
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Could we possibly use that fuel technology to fuel our cars? Maybe this is part of the cover up. Palin wants to "DRILL BABY DRILL!!" and tear down every bit of Alaskan wildlife in site. If the fuel source of the dinobots was every discovered...it would be game over for the oil industry and dear old Taaaaad Palin would be out of his cushy consulting gig with big oil. She fucking hates those dinosaurs. She probably gives the finger to Spielberg and Crichton every time they cross paths. -
Well said. It's a sad notion to think that John McCain (as evidenced by his increasingly irratic and rude behavior) will now say and do anything to get elected. ANYTHING. It makes me wonder if the country ever really "knew" the real man behind the war-hero/maverick mystique.What's funny (and sad) is that the guy can't believe he's having such a hard time with Obama. It's written all over his face. Anyone who saw his little press conference yesterday can see just how frustrated he has become over the current state of his campaign and poll standings.
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I don't give a fuck about experience really. McCain seems to have all the experience in the world. He's been around for fucking ever....that doesn't change the fact he's a delusional cunt with a nasty attitude and a shit voting record. Experience isn't always a good thing. I don't judge Palin on her lack of experience...I judge her on her apparent lack of a brain. Obama has shown he can hold his own with McCain....so what's the problem?
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Did you cheat on your husband with his business partner? Did you abuse your powers and fire a police official? Did you let a road to nowhere be built for 25mil of taxpayer's money? Did you take credit for saying no to the bridge to nowhere, and still keep the 330 mil for your state? Did you exaggerate that you sold a plane on EBay? Did you try and have polar bears removed from the endangered species list just for a natural gas project? Did you ok the right to shoot wolves from planes because they were a threat economically? Did you say that "We have to make sure it's God's plan in Iraq?" Did you have a witch doctor expel demons from you at a church? Scary shit!What other kind of stupid baggage do we need to be aware of?
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...when Superman confronted Zod at the Daily Planet and they started giving chase around Metropolis? Everyones looking up at the spectacle and one spectator says with excited interest: "this is gonna be good." Remember that? That's where i am now.
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McCain senses his mortality. He is 72 years old. This is it for him. The last crack at the brass ring. He is mortgaging his legacy on this last try at the White House. I do not think that he has fundamentally changed, but I do believe he has compromised his integrity. The Palin gambit is perhaps the most galling example of selling out completely. He knows she is not qualified to be President of the PTA let alone, the United States. But he is gambling with our futures and could give less than a damn what happens to America if he dies in office and she takes over. As long as she can deliver conservative voters that is all that matters. That to me shows utter contempt for Americans and a total lack of good judgement. I too once admired the man, but he has succumbed to the temptation of the office. Everyone who runs for the Presidency, has a massive ego. But it takes a very strong willed person not to surrender his or her integrity in pursuit of it. Sadly, McCain has done so.
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..Cindy McCain dresses like a park avenue heiress. What exactly is "small town" about these people? What on gods green earth were they mocking at the republican convention? These folks are more Cosmopolitan than Obama and Biden. Not all of us have tanning beds in our mansions. Lord knows those things cost enough for small town folks like us.
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No I don't think it's OK but I guess my point went in one ear and out the other. Even if this story is true (which it's very possible it isn't), it's exagerrated for an emotional effect.
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Oct 02, 2008 12:01:29 PM CDT
McCain could still win? Obama just stole FLORIDA for god sakes.
by knowthyself
A state McCain had LOCKED DOWN for months. Obama is headed toward a landslide election on his behalf. McCain is so far behind he may never recover.
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Oct 02, 2008 12:02:31 PM CDT
Palin has been cramming for debate as if it is a mid-term
by toadkillerdog
So, if she does a credible job of spewing the answers from memory, without really understanding what she is saying, I fear she will be given a pass. The dust-up of Gwen Ifill, is just the Right trying to launch a pre-emptive strike: If Palin screws up, it will be because Ifill asked her 'too tough' of a question. My gut tells me this will be a very boring debate, and neither will make a mistake. The questions will not be so difficult or out of left field that Palin should be surprised. Palin probably will come out of the debate without any damage at all and maybe even slightly ahead. And the Right will trumpet that as a triumph. Do not expect anything much from tonight. Biden actually has more to lose than Palin.
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That's all good for you...but my post is about Matt Damon. He's being a hipocrite. Blasting Palin for lack of experience... did he even look at Obama in that regard? I think not. Fuckin' celebrities are political idiots.
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New poll out: Palin approval plunging 12% in Alaska in 1 month. 4 other Western state governors have better approval ratings. HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU REPUBLICANTS GOING TO TELL THE SAME LIE?
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"Seriously, she is unable to answer any question without falling back to catch phrases and buzz words. "
thats not the change we need!
thats not the change we want! -
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-biden-ought-to-say-rude-version-if.html
10/02/2008
What Biden Ought To Say (Rude Version):
If at tonight's debate, Gwen Ifill asks Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden whether he thinks Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and he doesn't say, "Gwen, let me speak for the vast majority of people in this country when I say, frankly and honestly, 'What the fuck?' No, really, What. The. Fuck. I mean, everyone's seen this goddamned idiot over here running around and playing national candidate dress-up. And isn't it embarrassing? Isn't it just so depressingly, godforsakenly embarrassing? C'mon, Republicans, you gotta hate yourselves for having to constantly defend her when she says something utterly incomprehensible or just plain friggin' dumb. You gotta hate yourselves for how far you've devolved.
"Really, what the fuck? And don't gimme that fuckin' little sour-faced sneer, Sarah, where you look like just sucked a sweaty hobo's cock. 'Cause you know it's true and every time you get asked a question that stumps you, which is every fuckin' question, and you get that look in your eyes like the deer laying on the road way after the headlights have gone by, you gotta wonder, 'What the fuck?' yourself. You're in over your head, and there ain't no life preserver here.
"Last week, we all had to watch while John McCain treated Barack Obama like he had just fucked McCain's daughter's lily-white snatch with his big black dick. Barack Obama fought for months to win the votes of his party to win the nomination. What the fuck did you do, Sarah? You ran a town that's the size of a Super Wal-Mart? You're a governor? Of fuckin' Alaska? Jesus fuckin' Christ, that means your only job is to see how much you can get away with fucking up the environment to squeeze a little more filthy oil lucre out of the wheezing earth so you can please the corporations that fuckin' own your state and to see how much you can afford to bribe the citizens there with Exxon's profits. And you're on stage with me? At best, you should be the second focus group-ready questioner in a townhall meeting, you know, the crazy Christian chick from a rural state no one gives a fuck about but we all have to pretend matters because of the electoral college.
"And you wanna make fun of me? Saying you were in 2nd grade when I was first in the Senate? Fuck you. You know what I was doing then while your daddy was showing you how to rip the intestines out of a moose or some such shit? I was trying to stop the Nixon administration from blowing the fuck out Cambodia. And when you were sashaying your ass around a stage in a swimsuit and heels, wondering if you could just handjob the judges backstage, I was facing down Ronald Reagan for his insane policies, including in Lebanon. But that'd be history and that requires you to think about more than whatever talking points John McCain has been jamming up your twat and down your throat for the last couple of months, which is the only time you've given a shit about more than how to use your office to get jobs for friends, take revenge on ex-in-laws, and get pretty, shiny presents.
"I don't wanna fuckin' hear about this dink anymore. I don't wanna know about how she went to five different safety schools before squeezing out a vanity degree like a turd from a constipated old man. I don't wanna hear about her retarded baby. I don't wanna hear about her knocked-up teenage daughter. I don't wanna hear about her fuckin' redneck husband. Fuck them. They are the ones who need to be led, not the ones who need to be leading. So I don't give a fuck about what Bush with boobs here has to say about jack shit. And you know what else? I don't wanna hear about the wisdom of small town America. You know where the Founders spent their time? In the cities. In Paris. In London. Small towns? That's called 'isolation.' And it's bullshit political talk for 'white,' Gwen. Oh, do I sound elitist? If it's elitist to want to elect people who actually have a thought in their head about more than whether or not to name the next child 'Remington' or 'Colt,' then, fine, fuck me, it's elitist.
"This ain't a fuckin' game, Gwen. It ain't a fuckin' beauty pageant where you can give a cross-eyed hummer to a flute and charm your way to second place. We already played let's-put-the-idiot-in-charge. How'd that work out, huh? So it ain't funny that we are actually having a serious discussion about someone who is caught off guard when asked for a newspaper she reads. It's not funny. Not when the top of her ticket is Old Geezer Grumpy McStrokeEye. So, no, Gwen, even if the economy was so good that everyone was knee deep in cash and pussy or cock, even if Osama bin Laden told all his people to go back to goat fucking and then killed himself, even if all of a sudden we discovered we could all power our cars cleanly with pig shit, even if the streets were paved with gold, Gwen, this fuckin' idiot, who couldn't discuss a foreign policy even though her soldier son's life depends on it and who couldn't even name the Exxon Valdez case, fer chrissake, oughta be arrested if she sets foot in Washington, DC," then the whole thing will be worthless.
// posted by Rude One @ 9:46 AM| DiggIt!| Del.icio.us|
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The dinobot fuel formula CANNOT be discovered. It would most definitely spell game over for Big Oil. And as for her dinosaur hatred, you're right on the money. She probably owns every Turok: Dinosaur Hunter game ever created, from the first two good ones to every other crappy sequel.
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Rasmussen has it at 51-44.....Gallup, 48-44......CBS news, 50-41......Washington Post, 50-46. You can go ahead and claim Obama's lead isn't impressive all you want. The fact of the matter is a young, fairly inexperienced, supposedly most liberal politician in the senate is beating McCain-- the maverick with 26 years of experience, in every poll across the country. He is picking up speed in key battleground states where McCain must win. This is shocking the hell out of the McCain campaign. You can tell by the old bastard's grouchy demeanor that he did not expect this. He expected an easy victory. The country isn't buying his bullshit anymore. He is finished. Go ahead and pretend otherwise....but you know this to be true. -
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081020/ames_berman
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It is too early to predict such a thing. Rememeber, the polls where headed McCains way just three weeks ago. What changed? Two things: The luster has worn off of Palin somewhat. She has time to get some of it back, and tonight will be big step in that direction. But probably not enough to get her back to the post convention bounce. Secondly, and most importantly, the Economy took front an center. Dems are thought to be better at the economics this time around, and McCain has taken a huge hit. But this could change in an instant. Consider this: A terrorist attack on the United Ststes, will wipe out all of Obamas gains, and put security front and center. Bottom line, no one saw Wall street mess happening so quickly. And no one knows if we will be attacked before election, or some other game changing event.
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This cult is really moving up the charts!
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I agree with you. Celebrities need to keep their fucking mouths shut about politics. Even if they are on my side-- I'm smart enough to admit nobody gives a fuck what those cunts have to say.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/mccain-chilly-to-obama-on_n_131126.html
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"DHS which is akin to Nazi Gewmany's SS"
DUDE??? -
He did vote against Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Hmmm...
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Ok ok....you're right. He hasn't locked it up yet. I don't think locking up is possible in modern day politics...unless photos of Obama in drag butt-fucking Rudy Giuliani surfaced. Then it would be locked up for sure-- Obama wins!! Everyone knows this country was built on vaudeville and show-tunes!!
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They're counterproductive to teh cause, I think. It turns quite a few people off. While I am voting for McCain, I think Obama will win it. People seeking a new perspective outweigh those voting down party lines. I wish the solution were that simple. I don't think Obama is the man to effectively do it. He scares me way more than McCain. Lesser of two evils in my book.
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""We really want to hear her views, and I’m sure she’ll do very well in the debate. She’s obviously a very accomplished woman," Bening said. "I’m a Democrat, I’m a supporter of Barack Obama but she certainly deserves our respect."
-Annette Benning -
Take a drink everytime she says "It's about the jobs" or "John McCain says..." or "maverick".
Chug the entire bottle if she says "I'll have to get back to you on that."
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Only an idiot would vote against the Bailout. Thats why both McCain and Obama support it. Anyone who knows even alittle bit about the economy can tell you that once banks can no longer loan out money for cars or small businesses we are finished.
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it's worth it. Just for "when you were sashaying your ass around a stage in a swimsuit and heels, wondering if you could just handjob the judges" Funny shit
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I dunno man. I don't claim to be an expert about this....but I have heard several economic professors say the bail out will do nothing but put the nation further in debt. Its basically gonna be like the stimulus package according to them....it may perk things up for a few months but it will return to the same situation very soon.
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Where the hell is that post? And where the hell are you today? We're in the Twitch TB.
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Oct 02, 2008 12:26:51 PM CDT
The only answer is Steven Seagal for President in 2012.
by stuntcock mike
Keith David as VP. Finally the world can breathe a sigh of relief.
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EXACTLY... none of us should be happy about it, but the only thing our congress should be doing is making sure we get our tax money back when its all done. We shouldn't have to be doing this, but its this or the economy completely tanks.
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You seriously think a country must believe in a higher being to function properly? Give me a fucking break. It just so happens to be like that from thousands of years of religious conditioning. If there was no such thing as religion-- the world would be a far better place IMO. Of course....no one will ever know. It is already tainted. A higher being belief is fine. It would be pretty sad to think there is absolutely nothing out there.....but I have a feeling when you say belief in a higher power you are referring specifically to Christ.
And England is almost an atheist nation now....they seem to be okay. -
No, only an idiot would blindly support a plan that is being rushed for no reason. I have very little confidence that the money will used appropriately. The fact that we have no control over our financial institutions makes our global image look like utter shit and us as utterly hypocritical. Especially since we've told various Latin American countries to tighten up their financial system, and ours is a complete joke. The impact on the world scale in terms of how much the U.S. has pull will be very interesting to see. Not only is our military stretched, but now it looks like are financial power is up in smoke.
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Being around a long, long time does not equal "experience".
Furthermore, showing you have a clue counts as important, if not more important than experience. Taking what knowledge and past experience you do have and synthesising it into an appropriate plan (ie judgement) is even more important.
So far, Senator Obama and the Democrats seem to be demonstrating that to some degree, while the Republican campaign currently careering all over the place does not. -
Oct 02, 2008 12:34:01 PM CDT
Agent Johnson -- oh yeah...and I do agree....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
FUCK CHINA.
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I can't say that won't happen, but if this bailout doesn't go through, it is known that businesses and the economy will not recover for a long time. We'll be as close to a depression as we have seen.
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..that there is literally ZERO accountability anymore? When Bush actually fucks up there's a parade of bobble-head asswipes to repeat endlessly that it's the fault of the democrats or the fault of the media or the weather or anything to distract you from the truth. When Clinton fucked up, we got this whole thing about how it wasn't him but instead this massive right-wing conspiracy and then everybody goes fucking bananas and retreats to their own corners where we glare at each other and throw sloppy piles of shit at each other. It's like we're not people anymore but a gang or group...a multi-bodied organism that defends the entire body even if it's a fucking useless appendix. ALL of our leaders are either criminally negligent, catastrophically incompetent, or closet extremists actually looking to take over the planet. Right vs. left seems more of a distraction for the sleeping masses than anything else. The current parties are practically unrecognizable from their origins. But it doesn't matter. I've got my starbelley tattoo which means you suck because you don't have a starbelley tattoo. Who favored the deregulation that is the cause of the economic madhouse? Guess what, BOTH parties are to blame! Even if one is more to blame than the other does it mean it's ok now? The guys who caused less trouble get off? Bullshit! You fuck up, you get fired. But not in government. Nope, gotta stick with the assholes for lack of other assholes to take their place. Look how much we hate each other just in general. Doesn't matter what you do...people insist on mindless loyalty to fucking nincompoops or some ambiguous party affiliation and I'm sick of the consensus championing fucking ass-backwards stupidity or smug arrogance. And I am absolutely talking about the entire political process in the US...BOTH parties!!!Once upon a time there was honor in this nation. Now what we have is hyper-'reality'-TV government..either incompetence or fascism, either cronyism or partisan bullshit. It all equals 'fiddlin' while rome burns' to me.I believe my greatest fear in this fucking mickey mouse bullshit idiocy we all participate in has not only already come to pass but is actually old news at this point. We just haven't acknowledged it yet.Truth is dead. Sorry folks but I think it's all over but the shouting. Only having 2 parties is bad enough, after this election, whomever looses is going to loose BIG and then we've got yet another imbalance of these hyper-extremist views. Take your pick, socialism or fascism...cause apparently that's all we're being offered if you listen to each side's respective bobble-head pundits.Again...it's all over but the shouting...which is exactly what a TB like this one is...no? Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking anyone here, even those who speak only in insults. Most of you make great points and speak with respect and courtesy even with your passion and your rage; this is the essence of democracy but I'm speaking of the larger picture here. I'm speaking of the "system" and how it's totally and completely out of fucking control.So, how's the weather in New Zealand anyway?
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So then there's no problem when God faring citizens purchase goods made by your aforementioned Chinese child labor?
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Oct 02, 2008 12:35:04 PM CDT
Sweden is 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic
by dannyglovers_dickblood
You know how they make up for it? Ridiculous amounts of sex.
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That's because Slick Willie Clinton is popping ruffies in her water at the podium.
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Just because someone espouses christian/creationist beliefs doesn't mean they would completely regard any separation of church and state (however debatable that topic may be).
As far as teaching creation theory in schools... yes there are people that push for that, but a lot of creationists simply want the major problems of evolutionary theory explored as well, and the fact that there is opposition to it. As of now, evolution is taught as dogma in the religion of secular humanism, and any questioning of it is shot down immediately.
A large number of creationists realize that it would never get a fair explanation in the schools, and that people would flip over the "church and state" issue. Merely presenting the fact that there are problems with evolutionary theory and that there are alternative schools of thought is simply opening the door for genuine open discussion and debate. -
This is from comedian Patton Oswalt's myspace blog. - - - -
LET’S ALL NOT BE MEAN TO SARAH PALIN!
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I've been saying bad things about Sarah Palin before right now in the past ago. But that's only because I thought she was an unqualified, passive-aggressive, hypocritical cunt.
However, I was hit over the head 11 times with an amber paperweight this morning. Then, seventeen minutes ago, I got my head trapped in a big plastic bag, and was not able to get any oxygen into my breath-hole for several minutes. And then I paid the mailman to give me a screwdriver lobotomy.
And so now I see things different and also clearer than before back then.
For first things, everyone who's laughing about her on the TV with Couric needs to understand that, when it comes to the country's money and bank outlook, we need to consider what Sarah said about jobs making and also the shoring up of our proud country and the mountains of glory and tradition that we, as a people, have forever held. And don't forget the health care which for the body of Americans as people and as a whole is critical. Do you remember the people who died in the towers?
And to qualify more than Obama? Let me count on more than one hand! Obama went to smart-school Harvard only, which is shown by studies to be only a single school with a curriculum. Sarah spread her mind over five different colleges for more than that many years. Do you need a fancy school to know a thing or two about a thing or two? Ask a Democrat about the movie TRADING PLACES, where Eddie Murphy, with only street smarts, takes down a whole building of smart-school elites, and makes them poor. But that's because Democrats are racists and also Republicans freed the blacks which they also don't want you to know.
Now to bring into a finish, Sarah's foreign policy expertly. Obama spent years all over every part of the world except America with Muslims and terrorists. And where was Sarah? She was in America, knowing everything about our proud country and you can bet if foreign leaders come here she'll know tons and tons about our country, and will set them straight! And Obama does not wear a metal flag on his clothes, which is a signal for brown killers.
And also the troops babies eagles 9/11.
I type everything I do now and now I just boom-boomed in my sweatpants.
http://www.myspace.com/pattonoswalt -
Unfortunately, there aren't any other options. I can live with the ramifications if I can keep living a decent quality of life.
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A very good one. Uh-Merica has some troubles, and we're all so freaking arrogant that we simply can't accept any solution that doesn't start with the phrase "America is the greatest coutnry on Earth, so I propose -" That is the definition of fidding while Rome burned. Of course, there are two solutions to this problem. . . engage in the process and work for change, or disengage all together and say "fuck it". What's it gonna be? Do you think we can educate the next generation, and seriously give them the critical thinking skill necessary to dissolve all the BS in politics, or are we going to let everything slide into opposing ad campaigns?
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While I personally could have done without the profanity, I agree with statements. There is no accountability at all anymore. Government, business... it's all ridiculous.
The government officials who made thsi mess pointing fingers to play the blame game.
The business men who made this mess getting millions in salary to run these companies into the ground, getting million dollar buyouts of their contracts, and I read somewhere (though I'm not claiming this part as truth as I don't know if what I read was right) that some of them will be getting hundreds of thousands in government subsidies with the bailout.
This lack of accountability bleeds into the public life as well. "It's because he played that violent video game or watched that viloent movie," etc. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ
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Creationism isn't science, so obviously no to a science classroom, but what about Literature? As an atheist, I'd still be behind Creationism in Literature. Honestly, how can you discuss Shakespeare without Creationsim? Perhaps that's the proper forum. . . what do you think?
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The rich will stay rich and the poor will stay poor. What the bail out does is keep our economy stable. At this point we can snowball our way into the worst economic crisis since the great depression. People think thats hyperbole but its truly not. LOANS people. Its our economy works. Student loans. Car loans. Small business loans. Home loans. Already GE is feeling the effect of fewer cars sold because car loans have to be so strict because of the bank crisis. US buys these failed loans, sell the homes hopefully for a small profit, and while we still have to work our way out of these troubles we can have some confidence that the constant bank failures will cease.
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the only bailout you will ever hear about is when he kills an entire Boeing 747 full of Jamaican/Columbian/corrupt cops/drug dealing terrorists. Then, after killing the flight crew(after realizing they had killed his first 2 wives), he realizes he is only trained to fly a Huey Cobra. Oops, time to BAILOUT!
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What other conceivable options are there? Who else can float that note? Maybe the Chinese? I don't see any other viable options. I'm no apologist for Bush, but if he didn't push for this to go through, he'd be branded for not doing enough. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I'm tired of Bush, but he's right on this one. The Republicans better get on board or Obama will have more fuel their fire.
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Washington was against political parties, because he felt they were too divisive. Looks like he was right. People split down party lines so strongly. No longer is it "My country, right or wrong", it's "My party, right or wrong."
I can't help but wonder if economically and politically we are on the verge of driving so far off the road we will never get back again. Karl Marx always claimed that the capitalistic society was doomed to self-destruct... looks like we might be getting close to that if we can't find a way to change the way this country operates on a massive scale. -
Oct 02, 2008 12:52:30 PM CDT
"While I personally could have done without the profanity"
by dannyglovers_dickblood
What the fuck? Have you ever been on the internet? Who is this....Charleton Heston is that you?
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who shouldn't be allowed to run AMERICA. (This message brought to you by McGooCain, who apparently is away from the keyboard for a minute.)
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That will never happen, because that would still allow an anti-evolution viewpoint into the school system in some way, and that "rock solid" theory just can't be allowed to be questioned in any way, shape, or form.
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Good post, Darth Macchio
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Yes I've been on the internet, and yes I know there is a large majority of people who have no problem with it. Particularly here. I'm simply saying I agree with the viewpoint without neccesarily agreeing with the exact manner in which it was delivered.
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I hear she runs a tough no-bullshit debate.
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The fact is that evolution has been established by scientific observation. Creationism is solely based on religious belief. They can't be taught side-by-side; they're not even the same topic! RELIGION IS NOT SCIENCE. That doesn't mean "RELIGION IS FALSE". It doesn't even mean "RELIGION IS BAD". It means RELIGION SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT AS IF IT WERE SCIENCE.
Pretending otherwise is dishonest - and the same religion that teaches that the earth was (literally?) created in 7 days also teaches that THOU SHALT NOT LIE.
If you have to *LIE* to promote your beliefs, that's not an act of faith, it's an offense against the God you supposedly believe in.
(And yes, for all your sophistry, you're lying.) -
It is nasty and shady....and its ridiculous that both Presidential candidates have to sign on quick out of fear of looking too partisan or risky in these tough economic times. But just look at the way in which both of them handled the situation. McCain is a scumbag. He really thought he would come out the hero-- whisking off to Washington to take credit for negotiations that had nothing to do with him.
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Oct 02, 2008 1:01:58 PM CDT
what was Shakespeare thinking when he wrote the Bible?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Surely....he was smart enough to know this whole creation bit would be dissected in years to come. Maybe he found it all quite funny.... -
Of course that guys going to say that.. and he's right... we're heading towards big banks shutting down because they can't back their loans with the minimums as required by law. Haste is paramount. The only other option is to find an entitiy with extraordinarily deep pockets to take over, and there is no other option in America. This situation is so very fragile. Right now everyone is waiting to see whats going to happen with the bailout. If it doesn't happen, a lot of big banks will fold, and we'll be screwed. This isn't about stock market performance. Its about our banking systems staying intact, and that's critical to our country's economic future. If it fails, it will take many years to repair itself.
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...if my kid's school started teaching them Creationism side by side with Evolution.
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How am I lying? I have yet to say anything that I don't believe to be true, or that goes against what has proven to me to be true.
As for scientific observation... that one is tricky. We have seen things change, yes. But change within the species. We've seen birds become birds, canines become canines, all through natural selection, or artificial selection by humans breeding for specific traits.
Evolution as pertaining to origin has not been observed, nor can it be. There is no way for us to observe what happened in the past (whether that past started 6,000 years ago or 100 billion years ago).
No mutation has ever been found to add genetic information, which is what would be neccesary for evolution as an origin of the species. -
Evolution = proven fact
Creationism = Religious in origin
I don't care if they teach both as long as they state the above as part of it. It's possible to believe in God and recognizing the facts... I do.
That's all I have to say about it. Attempts to argue with me will not be answered. -
I hate to play word games, but I think I need to a little bit...
It comes down to a difference between evolution and Evolution. Little e states that things change over time (generally through the process of natural selection). That's fine. That is obvious as we see mutations resulting in things like wingless beetles, antibiotic resistant bacteria, and things to that effect.
Big e pertains to origin science, not operational science. That has not been observed, nor is what has been taught as fact observable because it happened in the (increasingly) distant past. -
Oct 02, 2008 1:11:47 PM CDT
FORGET ABOUT EVOLUTION, CREATIONISM, DINOSAURS AND GOD
by bringingsexyback
It's the witchcraft we have to worry about!!!
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Yes, gravity is a theory, and it's something that can't truly be proved (one of the things about science is that it can't actually be used to disprove or prove anything, which always seemed odd to me), but it CAN be observed, as you said. I have nothing against science that can actually be observed and tested.
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She is stupid.... No amount of Partisan banter can hide that....
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I'd almost be more in favor of not teaching any origins science, as it is all speculation. Evolutionists will believe their side, creationists will believe their side, and never the two shall meet, save to bicker.
Of course, then the problem with that is, any hairbrained thought could be allowed to gain credence... -
It was a joke.
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Between Palin's babbling non-answers and Biden's drunken rambling, this debate should be comedy gold.
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after tonight, it will be official. Her 15 minutes are almost up. Her own party is losing confidence in her. She's so out of her league it's laughable. I love how the funniest bit in the Tina Fey sketch was the rambling speech that was almost word for word what Palin actually said. And having McCain 'defend' her in another interview with Couric (and when did she grow such a pair?)? Further evidence that she can't handle herself. And this whole thing with Biden and the FDR comment is just so overblown. Yeah, it was dumb, and a total gaffe, but he was thinking of the Fireside chats, and most people who make fun of it are missing the point of what he was saying, which is legitimate: there was a time when the President could talk to the American people, communicate with the masses and reassure them, which Bush has not been able to do, McCain can't do, but Obama can.
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Back to class I go. I'm sure I'll be back in a few hours.
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Seriously
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Sure, teach both. But teach evolution in a science class, and creationism in a religion class. I'll never understand why evolutionary theory is such a threat to religious folk. Why does it preclude the existence of a Supreme Being or a Prime Mover? Why can't we have both if we want? Why can't religious folk look at the complexity of evolution as evidence of divinity if they want, and atheists can take God out of the equation if they want. This debate is so freakin' 19th century. When will people wake up?
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I once heard 3rd-hand Obama is Muslim. Can you put that unsubstantiated crap up in your summary? No? Why not? Because it's unsubstantiated, partisan crap. Just like 90% of everybody's snide bitching about Palin. And McCain. And every political figure. The electorate gets the government they deserve.
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Anyone who SERIOUSLY thinks Wall Street and the Economy are going to magically reverse after the Bailout isn't paying attention. It MIGHT stop the Dow Jones plummeting for a while (and the only reason the Market isn't plummetting right now is because Wall Street thinks some kind of Deal is inevitable) But the recession is here, has been for a while, and it's hitting people in the pocket every day. The only question is just how deep and lasting the Recession will be.
And the Dominoes of Banks and corporations certainly haven't finished falling either. This is a Credit Crunch not just a housing bubble and the other half of it could prove as Catastrophic.
Amusing though Palin will no doubt be (even if she doesn't fall over and can adequately deliver glib generalities and rehearsed sound-bites for 90mins) the most pressing Question on voters minds will be, Can she take over from McCain, possibly without any notice, as President and tackle and Economic Cataclysm and 2 intractable Wars ?
Because that's why there are an increasing number of Republicans gagging on the Palin kool-aid and coming out publicly against her. -
He should be prez. He could kick Kyoto's ass....
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She may very well do a fine, impartial, objective job moderating the debate. But it is absolutely unprofessional for her to be put in that spot. It speaks poorly for everyone involved in the decision making process that it didn't raise a red flag. She would directly financially benefit from an Obama presidency.
That said, I think, especially now that the issue has been publicly raised, she'll be scrupulously fair. The trouble is that now, either side can claim bias if they lose the debate, truthful or not. That's why she should back out. -
Oct 02, 2008 1:26:55 PM CDT
Seagal's Stance on the Supreme Court: Out for Justice
by darfurontherocks
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When can I get my zinger in? I've been practising it all week. I just need an opening....
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I will stop now...
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And have done consistently for a long, long time BEFORE the past few weeks clusterfuck.
So you can be absolutely sure that it's going to be the number 1 issue by an overwhelming margin from now till November. -
and the Zombie Platform
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DarfurOnTheRocks you inspired me!
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Can we get back to inane trivialities and fanboy infantalism please? This site is better at debating the homoerotic implications of the tailoring of Superman's underpants.
Jesus is Magic. -
I have the shivers. In my dream, McCain dies of old age, bare moments after they swear him in... and it's President Palin, anyone? Oooh, I just gave myself the shivers again (brrrr). I'm going outside now. I need to sit in the sun and hug my dog.
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By Rassilon, that was good :)
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Oct 02, 2008 1:40:30 PM CDT
Seagal fucking hates the McCain/Palin ticket.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...because he heard McCain casually uses the slur "GOOK," and because Palin is all for destroying Alaskan wildlife for big oil. We all know the pony-tailer one is pretty much an honorary Asian-- he is know worldwide as the Dalai Lama of ass-kicking. And come one-- did Palin see On Deadly Ground?! You fuck with Alaskan wildlife....you fuck with SEAGAL!!
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First out of the gate. Let's get to Palin's experience. She has more than Obama in my mind, by far. She's certainly accomplished more. So, worst case the GOP #2 has a little to learn, but the Dem #1 does as well. I know which situation I find less unsettling.
Next, I hear a lot of guff about the media from both sides. In case you guys didn't know, all subsidized (state run) media in this country (PBS for example) is hardcore leftist. You won't find one person in their leadership who has ever voted Republican. NBC, CBS, ABC, NYT, LAT: They all might as well be called subsidized as well. They can't make a profit in a market situation and are propped up by their stature and public perception which was built up in less partisan days by good newsmen. Again, they are liberal mouthpieces (which is obvious to anyone to the right of Ralph Nader. Anyone to Nader's left thinks Castro didn't go far enough and their opinion can be pretty much thrown out as outside the mainstream)
On the other hand, so-called conservative outlets like Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reilly had to build up their followings one convert at a time armed with nothing but an idea and a microphone. Their message sells, and sells big, not because people hear the Pied Piper and become mind numbed robots. Rather, they hear a message they agree with and one that differs from that of the subsidized/state media which previously held an absolute monopoly. What a breath of fresh air Fox News is to me, because I can tune in and actually hear both Susan Estrich and Michelle Malkin in the same hour! Then, I can decide for myself which had the better points. If only MSNBC and CNN could learn from this, they could climb out of the ratings basement.
Now, let's talk about that old leftist canard, the fear of the right wing fascist. I hear a lot of cries about the Department of Homeland Security, abridgement of our Constitutional rights and general abuse of government powers under Bush. OK, I'll grant you the point once you can produce *ONE* example of an AMERICAN CITIZEN who was wrongfully intimidated, spied upon or had their right of free speech revoked. If you can't even think of one, pardon me if I call your cries of "the sky is falling" for what they are, utterly without merit.
As for the dinosaur thing, I actually find it funny. Personally, I'm a strong believer in evolution and the fact that the universe is billions of years (or more?) old. Doesn't conflict with my Southern Baptist beliefs at all, in my mind. So, if Palin thinks otherwise and prefers a more literal interpretation of scripture, I find that a quaint throwback at worst. It's obviously nothing to get our panties in a wad about.
In conclusion, I'd like to take a more philosophical bent and point out the tone of the liberals on this talkback. While calling conservatives shrill and hateful, they rant, curse and throw ethnic invective like it's going out of style. Even if the rest of my note reads like nonsense to you, I would hope that this one fact at least gives you pause and makes you consider who's using rational thought and who's simply parroting a mantra.
Cheers! -
The "SHADOW BANKING" system worth TRILLIONS is on the verge of TOTAL Colapse.
The Bailout doesn't affect this system but when it goes totally under you WILL see utter carnage.
Unregulated Private Equity and Hedge Funds are falling into the Abyss. Right Now. -
Wilson was not president when the Great Depression hit. Hoover was. You fucking douchebag
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Oct 02, 2008 1:44:29 PM CDT
Palin Thinks euthanasia is part of the Largest Continent...
by darfurontherocks
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On his campaign bus recently, Sen. John McCain told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live." Although McCain said he was referring only to his prison guards, there are many reasons why his use of the word "gook" is offensive and alarming.
It is offensive because by using a racial epithet that has historically been used to demean all Asians to describe his captors, McCain failed to make a distinction between his torturers and an entire racial group.
It is alarming because a major candidate for president publicly used a racial epithet, refused to apologize for doing so and remains a legitimate contender.
Contrary to McCain's attempt to narrowly define "gook" to mean only his "sadistic" captors, this term has historically been used to describe all Asians. McCain said that "gook" was the most "polite" term he could find to describe his captors, but because it is simply a pejorative term for Asians, he insulted his captors simply by calling them "Asians" -- a clearly disturbing message. To the Asian American community, the term is akin to the racist word "nigger." A friend of mine, a white male Vietnam veteran, pointed out that veterans, especially Vietnam veterans, know how spiteful the term "gook" is. It has everything to do with labeling someone as "other," the enemy and yellow. McCain sent the message that all Asians are foreigners and remain forever the "other" and the enemy.
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What do you think the SS was? Schutzstaffel means "Protective Squadron" in German. It was set up to protect the authority of Hitler's power and thus the State by suppressing any and all dissent. Homeland Security is already the third largest Cabinet position and is charged with protecting the U.S. from external and INTERNAL forces. It's not hard to imagine this organization slipping the way of the SS and becoming loyal to the President and not the people. It controls the National Guard, the Coast Guard, FEMA, the Secret Service, TSA, Civil Air Patrol, and immigration enforcement agencies so that prospect is indeed scary.
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His use of the word does not bode well for how he would deal with foreign policy issues.... If he is facile enough to view cultures in terms of binary opposites then heaven help us....
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Hey, did you know that if you remove a few letters from your name it spells OBAMA?
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...is, has, and will always be up to all of us. Until some overpowering alien race comes down and dictates life to us, we are simply the ones in control. Anything else is an excuse or some pathological compensatory psycho-babble nonsense.This is why I so dearly love creative works: movies, books, art, music..all of it.If some conscious entity came to know the human race outside of our awareness...what would be our worth? What would we have done to make ourselves noteworthy? Not as a universal contributor but for the sheer gratitude of being alive. My thinking is all the technology, wars, philosophies, advances, causes, etc, etc...are all fleeting..and usually a reaction to the way we treat each other.Our only claim to true objective beauty and worth is ONLY in our creativity. Everything else is a means to an end or simply nonsense blown way out of proportion to it's actual effect.My point? Simple: politics is up to us. Life as a whole, for good or bad, is up to us. Chicken shit, or chicken salad...up to all of us. Right?
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You're into piss drinking and shit like that? You struck me as a calm and collected accountant or something of that nature. But if its gargling urine you're into...I can set you up with Coughlin Laws. Where is that diseased used tampon?
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most enjoyable talkback in awhile..thanks everyone.
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Oct 02, 2008 2:00:55 PM CDT
Van Damme as Seagal's Running Mate: Second in Command
by darfurontherocks
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Amen, brother! ;)
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...destroying Alaskan wildlife for big oil"
Hey, so am I, 100%. -
Because really, he's not been damned enough lately.
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Much love for you man! Haha.
And HoboCode, please see my challenge above. Peddling fear about the government in this way is so pointless. -
except the giant worms that live beneath us of course. We need some mode of transportation.
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they wouldn't vote at all. no joke.
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Evolution has never been called a "proven fact" - even from it's biggest supporters. Evolution is a theory, and a shaky one at that. The only reason it is so widely held is that it is the best science can come up with. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain the origin of matter or what caused the "big bang". Nor does it explain how mutations - which are always destructive and degenerative- could continually go against nature to enhance millions of species to their current state. Evolution doesn't even begin to address what happened if / when a negative mutation inevitably killed off an entire species because it just wasn't beneficial. Would the entire species go back to the genetic soup and hope for the random positive mutations to happen all over again? Even with hundreds of billions of years, the odds are against evolution producing even a half-dozen species.
As far as dinosaurs and people co-existing, I really don't see what the big deal is. Since evolution cannot be scientifically proven (as that would require successfully repeating the process), why is so threatening to acknowledge the possibility that evolution may not have all of the answers? Is there no room for other theories?
It is well documented that there are several places in America where human tracks can be found embedded in the same surface as dinosaur tracks. Tuba City, Arizona and Glen Rose, Texas are two such places. The theory of evolution would say this is impossible, and would require that these prints be separated by layers and layers of earth. Though some may claim that these "cannot" be human prints, that conclusion is merely based on their refusal to consider anything else. The existence of these tracks alone demands room for another theory.
Is it possible that the legends of dragons originated from a few actual eye witnesses? It is not as unrealistic as you may think.
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I really wanted to like that movie more than I did. I haven't seen it in so long though, maybe it's better than I remember? Or not.
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"How am I lying? I have yet to say anything that I don't believe to be true, or that goes against what has proven to me to be true."
You're either lying about believing in some of the things you've posted, or have swallowed the creationist kool-aid whole. You're using every tactic - excuse me, every *DEBUNKED* tactic that creation apologists have been using for decades. So, you're either being dishonest or you're incredibly selective in what you CHOOSE to believe.
The crux of it is what I've already noted - RELIGION IS NOT SCIENCE. Treating evolution and creation as if they are competing theories when if fact they are addressing entirely different topics (metaphysics and physics) is dishonest in itself. -
"That said, I think, especially now that the issue has been publicly raised, she'll be scrupulously fair. The trouble is that now, either side can claim bias if they lose the debate, truthful or not. That's why she should back out."
Either side WILL *CLAIM* bias if they think it will help them in the polls, REGARDLESS of whether any bias existed or not, and REGARDLESS of whether Ifill moderates or someone replaces her (at the last minute). That's why she SHOULDN'T back out. -
Evolution was like a bad remake of Ghostbusters, but still far superior than Dinosaurs.
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Well we know that the telecom companies allowed the NSA to perform illegal wiretaps without a warrant so you can take one of the people spied on in violation of FISA as your ONE example if you like.
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...that will just be me, repeatedly falling out of my chair, clenching my sides as my lungs sear with the burning pain of laughter. That's not thunder, either, that's my orgiastic guffaws as my mind reels at the unbelievably fatal judgement of the McCain campaign and the feeble attempt to sway the masses with a cute lil vice presidential minx. That's not Continential Drift...that's all the undecided rushing towards the left in a desperate last-chance bid at saving what little face America still has with the world.
But just in case I've been reading up Dr. John Mack's "Abduction" and thumbing through my Hitchhikers Guide in cae I need to thumb a lift with the Vogon Constructor Fleet.
Please dear Lord hear my prayer. -
jsm1978 - Thank Thor you don't run ecucational policy. You don't even know the difference between Evolution and Abiogenesis.
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Are you fucking serious?! From your description of evolution you seem to have no idea what the theory of evolution actually is. Its not a mutation that suddenly happens to all members of a species and if its good they survive and if its bad they go extinct. Its small variances on a singular level, that if helpful continue on due to that specific gene-pool having a better chance at survival. And as for not being proven because the process cannot be repeated, what about Dog breeding? There are several cases where breeders have taken wild dogs or even wolves and through the selection of ones with specific qualities that the breeder wants, within even 5 or 6 generations they can come out with a completely different breed of canine with physical attributes tailored to what the breeder wanted. There's your proof of evolution.
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Oct 02, 2008 2:28:42 PM CDT
I meant Dinosuar, not Dinosaurs; though Dinosaur had Dinosaurs.
by stereotypical evil archer
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Nobody will deliver a knock out blow, nobody will self-destruct. The 90 second format and the intensive cramming will help Palin, who will use her winsome charm and folksy 'I'm just a small town mom' ways to further charm the Republican base and infuriate Democrats.
Biden will be hampered slightly by the 90 second format, and will struggle to get all his points across, still his experience and knowledge on the issues will delight Democrats and piss off Republicans.
Both sides will claim victory. Fox News will determine Palin the clear winner. MSNBC will declare the debate a clear victory for Biden. Polls will suggest a tie. Nothing will change and on we go... -
Oct 02, 2008 2:35:29 PM CDT
jzarbaugh has some "always destructive and degenerative" mutatio
by stereotypical evil archer
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Oct 02, 2008 2:38:35 PM CDT
jzarbaugh is too evolutionarily advanced for this talkback.
by stereotypical evil archer
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that the bible is true and that God created the heavens and the Earth, and man in his image. And that we will have the rapture, Armageddon...blah,blah blah. So what does this mean for an intelligent species on another planet somewhere in our galaxy? Are they left in the dark? Where's their Bible? If the same God created their world do they have their own version of what took place? Did God create them in his image too? What happens if their planet has a different make-up/mixture of elements and how much? They can't be like us. They will have to evolve according to their environment. The WHOLE concept of what the fuck happened is an egotistical, center of the universe, bullshit fantasy. Humans are seriously flawed in the brain department. Everything we do and say revolves around us and for the moment. There are humans on this planet that have never met anyone outside of their own tribe and culture. Never heard of Jesus, they worship their own things. Are they going to hell for it?
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Oct 02, 2008 2:42:15 PM CDT
jzarbaugh's seed will kill God. jzarbaugh! Forever! with nipples
by stereotypical evil archer
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Along with evey puppy and kitten in the world. They think they can just go around being cute and not have to go to church and repent. Ha! their day will come, then they'll See!
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I'm just his conscientious objector.
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Why don't you man up and defend your idiot of a vice presidential candidate instead of hitting the Republican talking points. Wow in his 30 some odd years in the senate joe Biden has had a few off color remarks? Considering none of them, in 30 years, come even close to the pathetic display Sarah Palin has managed to put on for us all after one month in the spotlight probably tells you something. Joe Biden is obviously, by anyones estimation, and incredibly intelligent guy of real character and there are far more instances of that than the opposite. Palin is a backwoods ignorant hick, and I can say that because I also come from a similar place and there are certain brands of stupid that just have no place in the public discourse and that is one of them. I dont care that she isnt experienced enough, I care that she isnt smart or informed enough. this is George W. bush part 2 here and its disgusting how Republicans keep piling these dangerous assholes on us all.
And if you dont like the political stories here then dont click on them. This is a site about art and people who love art and guess what, all that art is created by liberals, and as taxpaying citizens they have a God given right to speak their minds however they see fit, as they should when the country is going completely to Hell. So if you cant take it, fuck off. -
I eff you not.
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http://tinyurl.com/4d5slz
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therefore if she writes about a major figure in her field they're pretty likely to belong to a political party. That's not bias, it's DOING HER JOB. Or maybe you'd be okay with it if she wrote a book about a Republican at the same time, nice and fair and balanced, right? Simpletons.
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0% transfat yet somehow full of pork...?
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Lilith, now she was hot. She could make be forget about the fact of evolution.
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....to take a dump on John McCain's face. It would be fantastic.....and they could wash off my mess by waterboarding him clean. -
" It was set up to protect the authority of Hitler's power and thus the State by suppressing any and all dissent." And Bush is leaving office this year so I guess DHS reallydropped the ball. Unless of course you think he'll pull an Inagural Day coup with black helicopters gunning down people in the streets?
"It's not hard to imagine this organization slipping the way of the SS and becoming loyal to the President and not the people." That's quite a lot of imagining there. You're also assuming the worst possible intentions to countless people in those branches you listed above. They would all have to be spineless lap dogs to fall in line with such chaos.What about the other two branches of govt? would they just follow blindly?
But more to the point, I don't care how fucked up you think ANYTHING in this country is...comparisons to Hitler's Germany is Whack! Talk to me when were at least bulldozing emaciated corpses into mass graves. Dude. -
I love your moronic logic Doc. I didn't say DHS was like Hitler's SS now did I? Hence the "slipping into" I mentioned. And the goal is to PREVENT the bulldozing of emaciating corpses into mass graves, asswipe. You want me to speak up after that happens? Talk about being a spineless lapdog. Excuse me if I take a cautionary attitude.
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McCain should have done his fucking research. He agreed to her placement several weeks ago. Had he properly vetted her (something I'm beginning to wonder if he's even capable of in the first place) then he could have gotten someone new to be the moderator.
This is not Ifill being corrupt, it's McCain being incompetent. -
Wow, this post and these videos really show just how leveled and non-partisaned this website really is. Wait a minute, it's never been that way...
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The national polls have Obama ahead by 5-7%, but if you look at the Electoral Map projections (you know the votes that COUNT) based on polls, Obama currently has 259, McCain only 163, and 116 are "toss-ups". That's a pretty thorough trashing! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain And check the trends, almost all the tossup states are moving more and more to Obama.
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The national polls have Obama ahead by 5-7%, but if you look at the Electoral Map projections (you know the votes that COUNT) based on polls, Obama currently has 259, McCain only 163, and 116 are "toss-ups". That's a pretty thorough trashing! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain And check the trends, almost all the tossup states are moving more and more to Obama.
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Germany before the war was not a nation of retards, nor was it a dictatorship, Hitler was elected much like Bush. It wasn't because everyone else in the nation were retards or lapdogs that they followed Hitler, it was because he worked them up into such a fervorous sense of national pride and falsely made them feel that everything that occured was for the greater good of the country. That does sound familiar! I don't like to compare the current administration to Nazis but all I'm saying is that where the US is now in many ways is where Germany was a short time before the war.
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Why in the hell does he not know that FDR was not president at the breakout of the great depression, and that FDRs fireside chats were on the radio, not TV? I am as old as apparently Joe Biden has been a senator of the United States, and I have known that FDRs fireside chats were on the radio and during WWII for a very long time. How is it possible that I knew more about american history than this guy? How? He represents america and I was just some kid. And this is not the first senator who demonstrated an amazing ignorance of WWII, Obama had no idea that Soviets were the ones who liberated Auschwitz, how can a harvard graduate who now serves in the US Senate not know that? And how does someone with such a GIGANTIC gap in his knowledge of history presume to lecture ANYBODY on war? And I have yet one more liberal senator who's knowledge of WWII is astonishingly bizzare to me. A few years ago Harry Reid said that we had been in Iraq longer than we had been in World War II. Astoundingly rediculous since that wasn't true on any level at the time. For one, we had been in Iraq for only about 3 years at the time when he said that while we were in WWII from December 1940 to Summer 1945 if I know my history right. Then the next point is that we had only been in war in Iraq for like two weeks, the rest has been occupation. And although I don't know exactly how long our occupations of Germany and Japan were, I know that they lasted for several years. Either way, Harry Reid didn't know what he was talking about. How is it that United States senators don't know the most basic facts about World War II? Basic. Maybe since they believe that war should never be engaged in- they likewise refuse to study the history of war. They put their hands over their ears and refuse to even acknowledge the fact that war EVER existed. I seriously don't know what is going on in the senate- but these are not trivial facts that they are unaware of. These are some of the major details about US history that US senators should know. I don't know how Sarah Palin is going to fare against Joe Biden, but he is not a fountain of knowledge- this may not be as cut and dry as most liberals seem to think.
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I gotta get my popcorn ready for this one tonight. Biden is going to wipe the floor with Palin's silicone. "I can see Russia from my HOOSE!" LOL LOL LOL
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We need a massive write in!
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(and that's a HUGE "if" -- like, "never") I would expect the Democrats would raise a hue and cry. AS THEY WOULD HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO. If Ifill is a conscientious journalist, then she'll see the apparent conflict of ethics and bow out.
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He'll fake a heart attack at 8:45pm EST. He'll fake an assassination attempt. He'll hire some homeless person to drive a car bomb to the site of tonight's debate. He'll fake his own kidnapping and say it was a black dude. He'll have a dude beat his ass, looking all bruised and fucked saying it was an Obama supporter. He'll have Bush taken out.
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People who compare Bush to Hitler seem to be demonstrating their lack of knowledge of history as well. I think comparing Obama and his BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY to Hitler is far far more accurate. Hitler came to power by citing the greed and corruption of jews as the causes of the problems of the poor Germans. Now we have a canidate that at church blames the white devil (and according to black liberation theology ALL white people are devils- no exceptions) for the plight of the poor american people. Unfortunately for Barack he can't speak so plainly, and is fighting an uphill battle because his beef is with the majority population- but he does indeed have similar viewpoints. If Bush launches a coup- NOBODY in this country would support him, and that includes the military. You are retarded if you think that is anything more than science fiction. We are having elections, and we are getting a new president, and I will support Barack Obama for a new president long long time before I support Bush to take over the country- that is freaking RETARDED- you conspiracy theorists. Yikes.
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and that's WHEN, not if.... Republicans will immediately keep repeating the whole "Ifill is Pro-Obama" distraction, despite the fact that she will be offering NO commentary. ALL she will do as moderator is ask the questions - the SAME questions to both candidates. So there goes that excuse, losers.
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Gwen Ifill cleared of ethics charges. http://tinyurl.com/3nlgqx
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It'd have to burst in out of nowhere Jurassic Park style and chomp down on Biden, while a 'When Dinosaurs Ruled The Earth' banner fell down across the stage...
Mr. McCain, after careful consideration, I have decided NOT to endorse your running mate. -
Didn't you read the Dinobot/Palin theory. She fucking hates dinosaurs dude!!!
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Please appraise yourself of the concept. I cannot speak intelligently on the precepts of Creationism or Intelligent Design other than what I've read but I've studied a variety of sciences extensively. To say that all mutations have only negative effects simply reveals that you have absolutely no idea what you are speaking of with respect to the theory of evolution, much less science.From what I know of Intelligent Design, it is a very compelling *hypothesis* but ultimately does not lend itself to theoretical testing; it exists instead, in the realm of scientific conjecture and observation. Does that make it an invalid scientific hypothesis? Of course not, unless we allow human bias to color science which is the end of science if we do!.But does that mean it is remotely a theory much less can stand shoulder to shoulder to the actual Theory of Evolution? Of course not, unless we allow that same human bias to not only deny hypothesis based on nothing more than opinion anymore than confirming theory on nothing more than opinion. But you wouldn't know that much less recognize it if your understanding of science, and how an observation becomes a hypothesis which in turn may become a theory if given some validity through independently repeatable experimentation, is colored through unscientific motivations or sheer bias.One fundamental goal of science is to remove, or reduce to insignificance, the ever-present human error and tendency for human bias. This simply cannot occur if we redefine what, when, and how an observation skips over all experimentation and simply becomes a 'theory'. For a scientist to accept a valid hypothesis as a theory simply due to its compelling nature but without actual experimentation, undoes the entire scientific method making it impossible to even define the concepts with their now fluid definitions.
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Oh please. Obama didn't so much not know the Soviets liberated Auschwitz, as he did confuse Buchenwald with Auschwitz. That's a "GIGANTIC" gap in historical knowledge? Confusing two concentration camps from 60 years ago? Really?
And how you made the leap from that to claiming Senators don't believe war should ever be engaged is simply astounding. That is as moronic a claim as I've ever heard on this site. -
She'll be eating her words.
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Why even bother coming back? You're fucking finished....old Grampy McSame is done!!
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a kerosene cat's chance in hell. A moderator with a vested interest in one side performing badly. Doesn't seem moderate at all, does it.
But you know, you can't reason with someone who doesn't see the surface conflict. Most folks take the "wait and see if she says anything biased". If you can't see the obvious conflict, you won't hear any problems, either - and that's a little bit of closing the barn door after the barbecue, isn't it?
There's so many sites that aren't supposed to be centered on political discussion having political discussion that I want to climb into a cave and not come out until March.
Lookie here - one party had the Oval Office for 8 years, another had it for 8 years, and the first guy (Clinton) is now reviled because he won't drink Obama flavored Kool Aid and the other guy from Texas is a world class fuck up. Grand total of 16 years of everyone having a chance at this thing and it's still jacked. So we'll go back and forth and want to kill each other for a bunch of lying whores who want nothing more than to gain, maintain and perpetuate their own personal power. They don't give a shit about us - why should we start crapping all over our sports' talk, our movie talk - our fucking escapist entertainment and ruin even our moments of respite with this continual line of assfaces.
We are operating outside of reason by ruining our escapism with all the political bullshit. Guys, we're only hurting ourselves: Neither Obama nor McCain would piss on any of us if we were on fire. It doesn't matter if Palin's got a freezerful of dead eskmoes or if Biden tells you he wrote the Magna Carta. They don't care about us, they only care about their power play and we're ruining the fun of yelling about movies and giving more time to these vermin. Stop the madness.
I feel like Chucky Heston at the end of 'Planet of the Apes' as I troll through these ruined talkbacks . . . -
Just to clarify, I do not compare Bush to Hitler, I compared pre-war Germany to current USA. There is a big difference. I do not think Bush is at all disturbed or evil in the way Hitler was. I don't agree with him in most things he does, but I don't think he's actually EVIL. Secondly, if you really think Obama is of the "kill Whitey" mindframe, well, I don't what to say to that. That's just retarded. You really think he believes his mother is a devil?
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On your follow up. One slight flaw in your Obama/Hitler comparison. Aryans weren't the minority in Germany, the Jews were! I think that throws just a bit of wrench in that theory.
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well Buchenwald would also be a lie anyways, since his grandfather didn't liberate Buchenwald. But no, I do not believe he mixed those two up. Auschwitz is far more well known than Buchenwald. That is like mixing up General Patton with General McAuliffe. Nobody could mix up Patton and McAuliff, nobody could mix up Buchenwald and Auschwitz. That was just something their campaign put up their to cover up his amazing ignorance. And at the time I was far less concerned with his lie and more concerned with his ignorance.
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And McCain voted for it! That's odd for someone who has actively campained AGAINST it.
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All I said was that Obama is in line with Black Liberation Theology since that is what his church is based on and does teach. If you are comfortable with him being in line with Black Liberation Theology then fine. I never said that Black Liberatin Theology teaches to "kill whitey", and in fact it does NOT. But it does teach that all white people are devils, and if barack goes to church to learn that- then I would say he believes all white people are devils.
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Oct 02, 2008 3:42:21 PM CDT
Samus Aran -- you are a fucking freak dude.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
And you represent the Republicans well. You convince me that my hatred toward your way of thinking is justified. Thank you. Hope you enjoy the next four years.
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You did not read my post right- I was pointing out that this was the big difference. In Germany Jews were the minority, and in United States, whites are the majority. I think I was clear on that. Black liberation theology. Look it up- if you dont like what it teaches, then look how obvious Barack Obamas connection to that philosophy is- it doesnt take many lines to connect the dots- just the slightest bit of research. Almost no effort at all. I don't even have to direct you anywhere specific- it is all there.
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The guy has my respect though. She's a MILF but Christ, when she speaks, erections will fall. "Yeeeeaaa"
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And what way of thinking of mine is it that you hate? specifically?
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Oct 02, 2008 3:45:48 PM CDT
Has anyone noticed how much Palin looks like Harry Truman..?
by workshed
Take a look - you'll see what i mean.
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You spew lies to prove your point and you're a fear monger.
And you're the guy that said you'd be very interested to hear who Ben Netanyahu endorses right? You were pretty much saying you base your vote on whoever is better for Israel? Thats you-- right? -
Name ONE of your personal rights or freedoms which you have been denied.
HOBO: Quote "Bush is the one that signed the PATRIOT Act and created the DHS which is akin to Nazi Gewmany's SS" AKIN: allied by nature; having the same properties.
"I love your moronic logic Doc. I didn't say DHS was like Hitler's SS now did I?" Um, yes you did. And you don't have to be a dick.
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I meant his great uncle, Samus. And there is absolutely no proof that Obama's great uncle wasn't serving in the 89th Infantry when they liberated Buchenwald. NONE.
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wow....we havent been a majority in canada since the early 90s...it must be nice.
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tell me one lie I just said?
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OK, if you want to "connect the dots" like you have with Obama, lets do it with John McCain: he has stated that he is Catholic. Catholic belief and teachings are based on the Bible, which states that slavery is OK, sacrificing of animals is expected, and menstruation is a sign of evil.
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And I'm not even voting for him. But I've been so tired over the past eight years of all the carping from Democrats about how Bush has screwed up the country. I say, hand the reins over to a Democrat to show us how THEY can fuck up the country.
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Yes, akin, dumbfuck, not exactly like. Which I clarified in the statement below the one you didn't c&p.
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Everyone watch! Everytime she raises her hand too fast to wave at the crowd, he flinches and cowers his head down, making small wee-wee drops in his pants.
Damn, there is nothing sadder than an animal with its spirit broken. -
Name ONE of your personal rights or freedoms which you have been denied under this brutal, repressive Patriot Act.
Just one.
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I probably wouldn't know if my personal rights or freedoms were violated now would I? My phone could be tapped right now for all I know. It's not like they are going to broadcast that they are spying on the populace. And it's still wrong even if it isn't my own personal rights and freedoms being violated.
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And I alreayd provided an example above of others rights being violated by the PATRIOT Act. The illegal warrantless wiretaps conducted by the NSA.
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wow, I really don't care very much who Ben Netenyahu endorses. I honestly dont worry about Israel, it is not a major issue to me. But if I did care about Israel, why would that make me look bad? Are you honestly trashing on me for caring about the welfare of Israel? Again it is not something I hardly ever think about, but why would it be bad if I did care about Israel?
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But this country is so fucking stupid and backwards her ticket will probably win anyways. Stupid Jesus loving, science hating, gun loving, war mongering, hate spreading, big business supporting backwoods shitheads.
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Doc: "Name ONE of your personal rights or freedoms which you have been denied."
Well, none of mine have because I live in Canada. I'm just fascinated with that clusterfuck of a political mess to the south. Seriously, I couldn't give a fuck about Canadian politics right now because everything's hunkey dorey, but I can't believe some of the stuff that's gone on south of the border in the last, oh, 8 years or so. -
Exactly, People are just imagining that the Patriot Act has had a negative impact on their lives. I don't know for sure if the Patriot act is good or bad, but I do know that my life is exactly the same as it has always been.
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Too true. "I told you to SMILE, you worm! That's the strap-on for you when we get back to the hotel, Hubby!"
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Are you drawing a comparison between Catholocism and Black Liberation Theololgy? Are they both equal offenders in your book?
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puts the U.S. in the crosshairs of fundamentalists and terrorists. That's why you should care.
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As soon as I hear the phrases "in the tank" or "under the bus" I know you're a fucking moron that can't rub too original thoughts together.
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Seriously all she has to do is appear competent enough and she won't lose. THAT'S WHAT IT'S COME TO, it's insane.
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That is exactly how I feel. I almost want Obama to be president just so that the news media will stop telling everybody how bad the economy is (thus actually helping it to really become bad). If we have a president that the media likes, then the media will start telling us nice things about our country again, and that will have a positive psychological effect. Media decides our presidents, this is the world we live in. As someone who is mostly concerned with the tangible results, I just want a happy media that will allow us to also have happy lives.
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Yeah, i agree, the limiting of personal freedoms is fine as long as you're not fully aware of it. Just like its OK if your girlfriend is fucking your brother as long as they keep it a secret from you. My god, man, are you one of those people who think that the end of 1984 is a happy one?
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"Thank goodness that in 3½ months George Bush will be on a bus back to Texas and our long national nightmare of suppression will be over, as President Obama ushers in a new era in which everyone's free speech rights are respected. (Does not apply to bigots, sexists, homophobes, Islamophobes, gun nuts, right-wing radio hosts, Fox News Channel or anyone who questions Barack Obama's patriotism.)" - James Taranto
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I can hear her on the phone calling him.
"You stay your ass right goddamn there in that hotel! I'm coming straight over there and I'm going fuck you in the ass! RIGHT IN THE ASS!!! Also you do not get to bite down on the stick this time and there is no safety word!!!" -
It's obvious you're a hack, or a troll.
It's also obvious that shut_the_fuck_up_Donnie was not comparing Catholocism and Black Liberation Theology, but the two arguments themselves. He was using his bad argument to illustrate how bad your argument was.
And that is perfectly clear to anyone interested in an honest discussion. You obviously aren't. -
How dare they report on the continuous failure of our financial institutions.
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Ok fine, anyway, I really never cared too much for what Ben Netenyahu thought. That is all I can say. I'm sorry I offended people so horribly by caring about the opinion of the former president of Israel- I can see now that you guys hate his guts. I don't know why, but again- I can't stress this enough- I REALLY DON'T CARE. I feel like I am Stan and Kyle explaining that over and over again during that one Okama Gamesphere episode. Shut UP I DONT CARE.
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"Are you drawing a comparison between Catholocism and Black Liberation Theololgy? Are they both equal offenders in your book?"
Actually, Catholocism is a worse offender in my book due to the hundreds of thousands of deaths that can be attributed to it throughout history. -
More than anything else. More than any issue, please, if you consider yourself a patriotic and caring American, vote. Have a say, do something. Vote! It is the most patriotic thing any American do.
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Recording phone calls between US the Middle East is hardly usurping your personal liberties
WHAT RIGHTS HAVE LOST AS A RESULT OF THE PATRIOT ACT? -
Free speech zones. Warrantless wire-tapping, suspension of Habeus Corpus (right to a trial and to know what you are accused of, etc) and yes the rules allow the gov to process American citizens in the exact same way...not just foreigners. And all presidents from now own will have this right to claim anybody, foreign or domestic as an 'enemy combatant' and then you're simply done; no courts, no attorneys, no reason, no laws. Confiscation and intrusion of personal laptop computers with no warrant and no reason/suspicion from US citizens traveling abroad....new fancy airport x-ray machines that violate our privacy by basically seeing us naked (ok, privacy isn't a "right" per se but damn well should be). and the list goes on...Doc, I'm sorry my friend but I must respectfully call you out on this notion of ignoring even a HINT of anybody in power taking away or 'curbing' our rights for any reason under any circumstance EVER. I think if a president you didn't agree with had that power that you might balk as well..I would hope you would anyway! So many of our "leaders" have either wanted to or actually attempted to take away our rights and those same rights, including the right to bear arms, are the only reason I consider the US government to be one of the greatest governments ever created by humanity. Our government granted rights (some of which are indeed 'self-evident') is EXACTLY what makes us fortunate to live here and to dismiss even a hint that some asshole might want to take them away, as they get in the way of individual demagoguery, is more than I can stomach. To take your eye off that most precious of concepts is a dereliction of your citizenship, in my respectful opinion.
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Jesus. It is if it's for legitimate reasons, Doc! And I've already answered your question with an "I don't know." What else do you want me to say?
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no he was in fact comparing the two. He said that McCain should be associated with Catholocism as much as Obama should be associated with Black Liberation Theology. I say fine- go ahead and associate them both. I don't see any problem with being catholic. I do see a problem with being a black liberation theologist or whatever you want to call it. I am not being a troll, I am asking people to pay attention to the philosophies of our canidates. Perhaps you noticed that I am white, and I don't want a president who is fine with being preached to about how ALL white people are the devil. People either don't think it is possible that Obama might think that, and so they don't even bother looking into it, or they don't think there is anything wrong with that. I don't want people to vote for Obama without understanding this aspect of his character. I don't think there are a lot of black people who have this same belief system- but Barack Obama really seems to. Tell me where I am lying.
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Well that is a very extreme point of view, and I am sure there are Catholics reading your post who would take issue with you on that. All I can say is, give Black Liberation Theology it's chance. They base their beliefs on very doubius principles and "truths" so I am sure that given the power and lifespan of the catholic church they would provide you a very interesting historical performance as well.
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The safety word is ......Obama.
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Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia for those of you who refuse to look into it. This is from the criticism section of that article... Theologians such as theology scholar Dr. Robert A. Morley take a dim view of black theology. Morley's paper "The Goals Of Black Liberal Theology" is one widely quoted paper citing specific criticisms of black theology. He states that black theology turns religion into sociology, and Jesus into a black Marxist rebel. While making statements against whites and Asians, it promotes a poor self-image among blacks, and describes the black man as a helpless victim of forces and people beyond his control. Black theology calls for political liberation instead of spiritual salvation. Fundamentally, it is not Bible-based, Christ-honoring theology from this critical viewpoint. Anthony Bradley of the Christian Post interprets that the language of "economic parity" and references to "mal-distribution" as nothing more than channeling the views of Karl Marx. He believes James Cone and Cornel West have worked to incorporate Marxist thought into the black church, forming an ethical framework predicated on a system of oppressor class versus a victim much like Marxism. Stanley Kurtz of the National Review criticizes black liberation theology, saying, "A scarcely concealed, Marxist-inspired indictment of American capitalism pervades contemporary 'black-liberation theology'...The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the destruction of America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the story of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with the filth of their evil."
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Thanks for the great post
But until I see some evidence of the civllian population being subjegated as such I'm not going to rage about it.
I know it's possible I could go into the woods and get killed by a Grizzly bear too. It's quite possible. But I won't spend my time wringing my hands over it. I despise hysteria of this sort and should these things manifest I will be the first one to raise hell.
These things didn't arise in a vaccuum. 9/11 spawned much of this and with good intentions. There is always an ebb and flow with these things. We locked up Japanese citizens during WWII...we didn't cling to that bright idea very long did we? -
Bin Laden was more pissed about us being in Saudi Arabia.
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Acutually, I'm Catholic. At least I was born and raised Catholic. And I was fine with it until I got out in the world, started learning some world history, started paying attention to world politics that I realized that the Catholic Church on a worldwide stage was doing more harm than good and going against the basic teachings of Jesus I learned as a child. Things in history like the hundreds of thousands of women burned to death because they showed signs of intelligence behond what was expected of women and therefore must be witches, the refusal even to this day to help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa by banning condoms, the crusades, the constant attempts to ensure homosexuals are not given the same rights as the rest of us, and the preying upon the weak and destitute to take their money "for God". By no means does every church take part in any one of these things and there are many many decent human beings doing good work in the name of Christianity out there, but the amount of bad extremely outweighs the good on a world scale when it comes to Christianity. Christianity in principle is great, its the people who abuse and manipulate for their own needs or discriminations that bothers me and why I have distanced myself from my catholic background.
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biden is an ass. bought and paid for by washington insiders.
obama is in fannie and freddies back pocket.
evolution is a theory. creationism is a belief. they can not be compared to each other.
Stone's W looks like a piece of shit.
That being said I cant wait for Watchmen.
Peace out you bitches. -
Thank God....I fucking hate Bible based horse shit. And Obama is associated with this because.....why? Oh thats right-- Rev. Wright, eh? Thats all you got. Fuck off you cowardly little puke. I'm talking to you Samus. You are a delusional twat. You spread all your right wing propaganda horse shit to defend the cancerous toxic scum that is McCain. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I would love to see Bush take a test on WWII or even Palin now that i think about it. I'd put Biden's expertise on the era up against anyone conservative senators.
Some of these talkbalkers are yappin about black liberation theology as if they are experts are on it when i'm sure they've never studied anything about it at all. Name one source other than Rush Limbaugh that says ALL black liberation theology preaches hatred of the whiteman. Please point out as many black liberation theologists as you can who actually preach this and when they said this. -
Darth M, nice synopsis of how our civil liberties have been damaged by the fuckheads in control of this country (and, incidentally, I include many spineless dems for their participation as well).
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Oct 02, 2008 4:36:55 PM CDT
Black Liberation Theology -- pathetic desperation
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...on the side of the Republicans.
This is absolutely all they have to cling onto. McCain is finished. He knows this. We know this. The cancerous growth eating away at his face knows this..... -
When did I say anything about abiogenesis? I never said anything about spontaneous origins of life. The only thing in that regard I talked about was mutations.
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If you no longer follow Catholic teachings then you are not a catholic. I myself am also not a Catholic and I don't feel like arguing about Catholocism. I am simply asking you to learn what is going on with the church that Barack Obama attends (well he did attend it until he conveniently left it as soon as he decided to run for president- showing that he knew just how inflamatory his attendance was in the first place). For all intents and purposes he STILL subscribes to black liberation theology, and because of that we should know what that means. We already know what it means to be catholic. So if that is a major point against a canidate to be one in your book then fine. For those of you who dont get mad about someone being catholic, please now learn what Barack Obama believes. I go to church, and since I do that, I know how much of an effort it is to do that. I then also know that it is highly unlikely that Barack Obama does not fully understand and then believe in the basic teachings of his church. Barack's church has a HEAVY political agenda- and as such it is obvious that his church is deeply desirous for his election into the powerful presidential office. I don't know what he can do with that power to aid in his church's goals, but I do believe he will do whatever he can to aid them. His church has some very extreme political goals that are not good for americans, and this is what concerns me. Marxism, Racial Segregation, and the political goals of Malcolm X are all in Trinity United Church's to do list. Tell me why this doesn't concern people. None of you Obama supporters have known Obama any longer than the time he has been running for office. Your first exposure to him was when he recited some very moving platitudes at the DNC in 2004. I don't see any evidence that liberals in general care to look at Barack Obama's past, and to analyze his deep beliefs. Of course looking at his past and his associations in THE PAST are the ONLY way to understand who he is as a person. But most people only pay attention to his behavior during his campaign- as if that is the true window into a person's soul. Please people, don't be so foolish. We are getting really close to this election and most people voting for Barack Obama don't know anything about Black Liberation Theology. I don't know what he is going to be able to do when he gets in office, but I doubt it would be a good idea to elect him. Please choose the lesser of two evils in this case.
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That is artificial selection, which mirrors natural selection. Did you start with a canine? Yes. Did you end with a canine? Yes.
Get back to me when someone starts out by breeding a dog and winds up with a whale or a horse. -
He went to the church RELIGIOUSLY for 20 years. That isn't enough connection. I don't give a damn if his church is bible based or not- how retarded of you to think that part is what matters. How about the deep connection to marxism- the destruction of america as we know it, and the white man will tremble and go mad for the filth of their own evil. Here is a quote from James Cone's Book "Black Theology and Black Power" pg 39-41 which Jeremiah Wright cites as inspiration for his church- "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man "the devil." Do you understand that Malcolm X religiously believed that ALL white people were devils- no exceptions. Not just some- you, if you are white. If you feel that is true, then there is no arguing against you on this. But if you feel that is not true, then please take care not to rush into electing Barack Obama. His church is based on THESE principles of belief.
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You bring up good points, but you're being VERY disengenuous here. Lay off the handpicked talking points for a second. Frankly I think people care more about who knows more about current events and world conditions. You know, stuff like Hamas, Sunnis and Shia, Supremer Court stuff, etc.
Biden would kick Palin AND McCain's ass in a open and unrestricted foreign policy debate. -
the tide has turned and the nation is no longer enamored of Sarah Palin. McCain lost the last debate on foreign policy which was supposed to be his biggest strength in the race. America is preoccupied with the economy now, and most Americans have more faith in Obama on this issue than they do McCain. So how do the conservative bloggers respond? Smear tactics. Let's smear Obama because of his name. Let's rehash the past, because we don't have a leg left to stand on.
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yeah yeah
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Pathetic denial. Truly amazing how you refuse to pay attention. I now see why none of these facts have had any impact on people like you. It is just simply a rigid maintainance of ignorance. It is really true, Liberalism IS a religion. No facts that I present have ANY effect on you, because I am arguing against your deep faith. And faith can never be swayed, faith in liberal gospel. But you have not told me ONE lie that I have told, you just simply ignore it. You are a true zealot.
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palin is an evangelical...she believes in the end times...she has an israeli flag in her office...now why would that be? well, because all evangelicals have the israeli flag somewhere, because they believe that israel will be the center of the great conflaguration that will bring back jesus...she thinks she has been chosen by god to do that...and if she gets into that president's chair, its gonna be like the dream sequence from dead zone...you dont believe me? why dont you google israeli flag and evangelicals...you are so afraid of black people, it is sick...think obama will reinstitute slavery for white people and you will have to call him massa and fetch his slippers? that might be a step up for you....FETCH MY SLIPPPERS....BOY
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Biden has been wrong his whole career on the foreign relations committee. He wanted to partician Iraq into 3 equal parts under a weak central govt. It would have been a blood bath.
He voted against the first Gulf War which everyone from Bill Clinton to Al Gore thought was the right move. And he voted against the surge.
The guy just has bad judgement. Meeting lots of world leaders doesn't make your judgement better. Nice guy though. -
It came from Pulp Fiction in which Wolf (Harvey Keitel)assited Vincent and Jules with getting rid of the bloody "evidence" in Jules car.(The Bonnie Situation chapter)I just lovvvve Movie trivia.
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First of all, each man & woman's choice is their own, and I don't think many of us will change anyone's mind.. sounds like we've mostly made up our mind. But no one has mentioned homeland security. When the terrorists return to attack us on our own soil, and they will, they are waiting for a soft commander-in-chief like Obama, who wants to abandon our effort in Iraq, where Al Qaeda has some operations now. As soon as we let our guard down, they'll return. I'd rather have McCain calling the shots when that happens.
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thank you for at least listening to what I have to say, and acknowledging it. But how am I being disengenuous? This issue is the second biggest gripe I have with Barack Obama- I genuinely feel this is a major issue. In that case, how can I be disengenuous on this? My main gripe is what Barack Obama said in his debate against Hillary when asked about his intention to raise the capitol gains tax from 15% to 28% even though the facts showed that revenues increased as taxes came lower. I have no vested interest in this since I am not a stock holder. My main concern is that I translate the power of the stock market almost directly to the power of the economy, and as a human being who depends on the US economy, I care greatly if his tax plans will help or hurt the economy on which my life is so dependant. There is nothing disengenuous about my concerns about Barack Obama. I believe that he will make my life harder than McCain will. If you are in the same boat as me, (and most likely you are), then your welfare is in jeopardy as well. You should be looking out for number one, as should ALL voters.
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That would be entertaining. Who watches this crap anyway? No real questions will be asked or answered because they don't want to make it too obvious that neither side really gives a fuck about their constituents, they just wants to be in power so they can control the money-hose while pointing fingers at the other totally corrupt and incompetant party and pretend they're not really cooperating in driving this once fine nation into the ground so that their donors can continue to destroy the middle class and steal the riches of the nation. Screw this noise, I'm voting Green.
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I haven't gone to church for a while so maybe someone can answer this for me, just out of curiosity: Is the official Catholic stance on Dinosaurs that they did in fact exist but only for a couple hundred years before Jesus was born? It seemed a while ago that Dinosaurs were a hoax in Catholic eyes, has that officially changed to acceptance? Did the Pope have to actually give some sort of decree or speech on the topic? Or is it still some sort of grey area that each Catholic kindof finds his own explanation for?
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started well before ww2...they started almost as soon as roosevelt took office...and he did go on radio the day after the crash, to talk to the citizens of ny....so you still dont know shit
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started well before ww2...they started almost as soon as roosevelt took office...and he did go on radio the day after the crash, to talk to the citizens of ny....so you still dont know shit
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...That those rich fucks avoid with the lowered capital gains tax. It was higher during the Clinton years, and guess what, the economy was in much better shape. Next time some rich asshole tells you that giving him more money and letting him pay less taxes is going to somehow make you better off, try looking up "gullible" in the dictionary.
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Don't you even accuse me of being afraid of black people. How dare you. I haven't said anything that supports that. I am afraid of a particular person that truly seems to have hidden racism because of his church and associations. I would be equally against a canidate who had equally huge connections to such potent racism against blacks. Dude, you are way out of line accusing me of that. I am not going avoid pointing all these details out just because I might get criticized by people like you the way you just did. You are a coward. A true TOOL.
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Oh, so are you saying that Biden knew what he was talking about?
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If you think Clinton was responsible for the economy being good, you're crazy. The economy has been just as strong, if not stronger, during the heart of the Bush years, until the past year or so. The economy is cyclical and has very little to do with the presidential or congressional admistrations.
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Oct 02, 2008 5:23:58 PM CDT
This Is Going To Be The Comedy Hit Of The Decade: BIDEN PWNING P
by laserpants
Tonight, oh my brothers, is when the Retard Nazi Xtian MILF goes down in flames, HILARIOUSLY. Can't wait!!!
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Thats quite a stretch there. I bet you believe we faked the moon landings, am I correct? So Palin has strong religous beliefs. Obama does'nt? he spent years, over 500 visits to a church with a pastor that hates jews, whites and says the USA deserved 9/11. No thanks, I will take my chances with the girl that believes in creation over the guy thats extreme left wing and hates Jews, whites and the USA. Lets also not forget shes running for VP and hes running for President.
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Dead Freakin' ON!
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Don't bother asking, its a rhetorical question -- like when Palin asked if she could ban books from libraries for Jebus. That said, where in the name of high holy fuck did Obama EVER say anything even remotely racist? NOWHERE. You're fucking insane. Luckily, you and your ilk are in the ever-shrinking minority as the scales of fit tip ever more strongly in favor of Obama. Hope you can deal with a black man as President. We all know how you feel about "those people."
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So, according to your brilliant deduction, Obama hates whites. That would include his mother. And most of his close friends and advisors. He would have had to be the worlds greatest actor as well, to fool so many people - especialy those whom he relies on the heaviest in his campaign. But lets say you are right, he hates whites, and he gets in. What are you afraid he will do? Last time I checked a President can not pass legislation on his own. So he would need the consent of the mostly lily white congress. That also includes federal appointees. So, let me get this straight, you are broadly implying that Obama hates white people. Yet the only way he could govern is with the consent of the white congress and the white majority in the country - who would be looking out for the slightest hint of favoritism to blacks or minorities, no matter how benign. Samus, you are a moron.
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Snake oil Salesman & You are all his suckers.
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"That is artificial selection, which mirrors natural selection. Did you start with a canine? Yes. Did you end with a canine? Yes.
Get back to me when someone starts out by breeding a dog and winds up with a whale or a horse."
So, jsm, if you admit that going from one type of CANINE to another is possible, so you must also admit that going from one PRIMATE to another is possible (this includes homosapiens). So then do I take it that you admit evolution within a specific Order (be it Primate or Canine) but not between them?
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And when he was faced with these comments, Obama officially decried the man and left his church. NOW, on the other hand, McCain is well acquainted with an ultra-rightwing, ultra-racist, homophobic, fundie-freak pastor AND STILL GOES TO HIS CHURCH and NEVER made an official against him.
Let me guess why this doesn't bother you neocon freaks? -
And he is subject to some horrible gaffes and outright lies.
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Palin is the definition of ignorance
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...Except when an administration is so corrupt and morally bankrupt that they repeal almost all regulation, and wage class warfare to a point that our economy becomes so imbalanced that it collapses. Happened with Hoover, happened with Bush. Here's a clue: you take away all the money from the middle class and make them pay all the taxes and do your best to make sure that the standard of living for most of the nation decreases, and guess what? The average citizen loses the ability to keep buying worthless crap, and our consumer based economy comes apart at the seams. I hate Clinton, but at least he wasn't totally short sighted. He DID start us down this path, but it was the GOP's recent contempt for non-millionaires that is tearing our economy to shreds.
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Oct 02, 2008 5:34:35 PM CDT
And MCSAME's UltraRightWingNut Racist Homophobe Priest / Witch D
by laserpants
How come nobody is up in arms about that? And how come the so-called "liberal media" never went after him with the same kind of gusto? Because the liberal media DOESN'T EXIST, or at the very least, is only as "liberal" as the conservative billionaires that own and run it.
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He went to the church for many years and even let the racist marry him after his 911 comments. He only left the church when he was forced to a few months ago. He was in danger of losing the nomination over it.
Also I think you are full of it over this mccain pastor stuff link please? i would be glad to provide you with rev right links. Provide a link or STFU. -
You made me think of something, but it doesn't really apply to you, because you have educated yourself. I think people that are not educated on the candidates should not go vote for the sake of voting. I'm so tired of hearing you have to vote... you don't.. and if you don't know where the candidates truly stand, you shouldn't vote at all.
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"The host of PBS' 'Washington Week' and senior correspondent on 'The NewsHour' said she did not tell the Commission on Presidential Debates about the book." So much for conscientious journalism... :\
http://tinyurl.com/4xtvfa
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So Ted Turner is a Liberal according to you? Most of the owners are liberal and so are most of the reporters. Talk about clueless.
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No you are talking like a moron now. You seem to assume that it is impossible that he hates whites. Why again is it impossible? What evidence do you have that he doesn't? Because his grandparents are white? Because he has to work around white people to get elected? Yes I am saying that he may very well be an actor, and not a very good one at that. He doesn't really even seem to like white people that much anyway. He's not doing a superb acting job. But yes, I am most definately calling him an actor. And it doesnt take an amazing actor to pull off the performance he has been offering us for the last couple years. Big deal, he is trying to atain the presidency. Why wouldn't he be willing to act his heart out for a while? Yes indeed I am implying that as a possibility. And the evidence in his past STRONGLY supports my theory. I have seen no evidence that he has strong regard for his white grandparents anyway. He wrecklessly accused his grandmother of being a racist citing a story of when she didnt want to go to the bus stop where she was continually being harrased by a black vagrant. Where is the evidence that he holds his grandparents in high regard? Where is the evidence that he has ANY positive feelings towards white people? I don't know why you think it is impossible for a black man to hate white people.
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correction:So Ted Turner is not a Liberal according to you?
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That's not true. The economy is in the shambles because of socialist types of programs built into the loans that Freddie and Fannie were REQUIRED to make to low income applicants. It started in the Carter administration, and was reinforced in the Clinton Administration. These should have been repealed, but weren't, and now these entities crashed as predicted by many economists. Also, the rich do pay more taxes, not the middle class... but they are taxed at comparable rates. You tax the rich, the little guy still pays because they control goods and services and that costs get passed down. Don't believe the hype.. everybody's taxes are going up.
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Oct 02, 2008 5:43:33 PM CDT
What Cowardly Pussies trying to blame Ifill for Palins performan
by g100
Before the Debate has even BEGUN.
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I still can't imagine there are still people so monumentally naive that they would actually support this farce. Einstein was right when he said the limits of human stupidity are infinite.
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That's nice. Calling people stupid because they don't agree with you. Not everyone stands in your shoes, and feels as you do about the issues. Are you that much of an elitist that everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid? That's naive.
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Own most of the wealth, and run the government (in spite of, or with the help of the puny Democrats), and have run everything for years. Where do you assholes get off complaining about a bias against you? Have you paid attention to anything Bush and Co. have been doing for the last 8 years? There were political litmus tests for just about every government job. It makes me ill when you rich, white, ignorant dipshits complain about how rough you have it. We'll all bend over so you can stick it in a little deeper if it will keep your mascara from running.
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The CRA wasn't responisble for the glut of subprime mortgages the GREED of those who made a FORTUNE was. And the CRO only oversaw a FRACTION of the total of sub-prime and oter bad debts.
And when did the CRO force all the Banks and Corporations to take out the shit securities that infect the Economy like a Cancer ?
Not even McCain is crazy enough to try and Blame the CRA. It's a desperate last gasp attempt at a distraction for those on the far right who would rather blame poor people or anyone else rather than the greed of those on Wall Street or the incompetent deregulation presided over by Bush. -
I would agree that Bush has outlived his usefulness, but that doesn't that doesn't mean a new republican president will do the same things. The notion that McCain would be four more years of George Bush is the craziest notion I've ever heard. It would be phenomenally better.
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Didn't he want to give Iran $200 million right after 9/11, no strings attached? So much for his foreign policy expertise.
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Some people just call it as they see it. If that makes everyone in the nation with a triple digit IQ 'elitist' then I hope they finally get back in power and put you salt of the earth types in institutions where we can keep you from hurting yourselves with sharp objects. Maybe if you could put together a coherent argument that wasn't directly regurgitated from some right-wing blowhole with too much money and a microphone, or disagreed on ANY of the scandalous nonsense that sprays out of our GOP politicians, we'd respect your IQ's a little bit more. As it is, I think you're a bunch of pod-people who lack the ability to form an opinion of your own due to childhood trauma or perhaps genetic damage, so you try to boost your self esteem by believing the utter horseshit the rich feeds you so they can steal your money. Eat it with a smile, dum-dum!
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I thought better of you at one time, but not anymore. Disliking Obama on the issues is fine. Becoming irrational to the point of stupidity, is a kettle of different colored fish entirely. I suppose Oprah hates white people too - she was a member of that church as well. And I was being sarcastic, because I do not think that church espouses hatred of whites as much as it espouses self-reliance. Sure some blacks hates whites. Some whites hate blacks, Some Koreans hates Japanese.I asked you what you were afraid of if a Black man - a lone black man, came to power - with a mostly white congress. Apparently you can not answer that.
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If there truly was a black canidate who had strong anger and even hatred against white people, how would that look different than Obama's presidency- this is hypothetical. Are you imagining him saying racist stuff in front of camera's? Are you picturing him only surrounded by a black entourage like Malcolm X? Do you think that his campaign promises would be loaded with ideas like creating a seperate black nation? Now you asked me a valid question. What do I think he is going to be able to do against white people? I already said before, I think he is going to be able to do very very little. I don't think presidents are supremely powerful, thank god for the balance that congress and the judicial branch offer. I am not suggesting he will be capable of initiating a monumental effort to further the Black Liberation Theology agenda. I am just saying, it is not a good idea. If he has as radical philosophies as I am saying he does, and we elect him, and he doesnt have the power to do any harm- then we might as well literally elect anyone, because ANYONE would be equally harmless. What exactly was your point when you pointed out that he would never have the power to do horrible things? Why elect such a guy in the first place?
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WOW. Delusion is the first sign.. might want to check yourself into a facility before your ego causes your head to explode.
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i am afraid of Obama. I am afraid he will raise my taxes which he has promised to do. I am also afraid of the effect his bigger government, higher taxes and weaker military will have on the economy and the world.
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Oprah. She might. Why is that so impossible to imagine? The Church teaches that ALL white people are the Devil. The people who go to that church do NOT find that inappropriate.
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Well, yes, if you support McCain/Palin, you are most likely stupid or have some other kind of problem that impedes you from thinking clearly. I thought I made that pretty clear. Although I suppose stupidity isn't the *only* answer... greed, racism, and insanity could be other factors involved in the decision to vote republican. I have no patience for sugar coating the obvious to prevent hurt feelings on the part of talkback dipshits. It's "No Sympathy" night. It's "You're Wrong" night.
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What are you doing here? You should be doing blow or a call girl with that kind of income!
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If that's true.. thats sad. It sounds all too familiar... like the way the 9/11 terrorists view the western world. We're all evil. Glad to see tolerance is alive and well in our nation's churches.
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I'm sorry you lost respect for me. I know I am offering a very dramatic argument. But I have offered this argument before. Perhaps just not with so much vigor. For a while I kind of forgot how scary this Black Liberation Theology was. But then I got on youtube recently, and I listened to an interview with Malik Zulu Shabazz with Jon Gibson in which Malik said that Barack is definately pretending to not agree with his church for the time he is doing his campaigning, and Malik said that Barack and Farakahn are definately closely connected. Does this not alarm you? Malik Zulu Shabazz is a CLOSE friend of Louis Farakahn, and a strong supporter of Barack Obama of course. Associating Obama with Farakahn can ONLY hurt Obama's campaign. But Malik is like Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men", he is too proud to deny the truth because it makes him sick to have to deny what he believes in. But then again, the more I watch what is going on, the more I realize that even if Louis Farakahn was actively participating in Barack Obama's campaign side by side- most democrats wouldnt care. Louis Farakahn has been staying back to avoid hurting Obama, but he might as well just go ahead and drop the charade- Democrats simply DON'T care. simple as that.
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You guys and your egos. I'm sorry you have such low tolerance for people who don't agree with you. Doesn't the liberal left preach tolerance and acceptance for all colors / races / sexual orientations? So how are you a liberal if you can't accept someone who feels differently than you? I'll pray for you and your higher taxes next year :)
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I'm playing Palin Bingo tonight!
www.palinbingo.com -
I have reservations about Obama, but he is not stupid, nor can he act on his own. It takes working with congress for any legislation to pass. In these economic times, it would be political suicide for any congressman or President to expand gov't programs - which is why taxes would be increased. Also, he has said time and time again, that 95% of Americans get a tax CUT. As for the military, I am a former Marine, and I would never support any weakening of our military. But I do not support sending men and women into harms way for nebuloous geopolitical purposes either.
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Is it because she is a celebrity that it is impossible to believe that she might hate white people? I believe Michael Richards hates black people even though I watched him on Seinfeld (and still do) for so many years. Celebrities can be racists just as well as anyone else. That is not absurd.
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And thinks Hurricane Katrina was Gods punishment for a "sinfull New Orleans ?
Because that's what Batshit Insane Pastor Hagee thinks and he Endorsed McCain publibly and with warm appreciation from McCain.
Yeah, lets all worry that McCain secretly harbours the identical views of John Hagee like...
The Catholic Chuch is the "whore of Babylon" and a "Theology of hate", called literature such as J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter contemporary witchcraft, and of course said "I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that."
Despite ALL this and after weeks of it being pointed out that Hagee was Batshit crazy McCain STILL didn't reject his endorsement instead McCain said that it was "probably a mistake" to court and accept Hagee's endorsement, although he was still glad to have it.
Only AFTER it came to light that Hagee had said Hitler had been sent by God to hint Jews & God sent Hitler to cause the Holocaust did McCain finally realise he had sought out and been endorsed by a babbling loon.
And if that example of "good judgement" wasn't enough his SECOND endorsement by a Religious Right extremist was also eventually rejected when he realised that depite having called Pastor Parsley a "spiritual guide" he simply couldn't live with Parsley's hate speech. -
That is funny sincerely, but unfortunately no I do not. My business does and it will qualify reducing my income. Also he is raising capital gains tax and repealing the Bush tax cuts. So essentially he is raising taxes on everyone that has any income or investments. The line that I will only raise taxes on 5% of the population is a huge lie but everyone seems to be drinking the cool aid.
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Do you all really think the stock market as volatile as it is can take a huge increase in taxes on capital gains. One of the dumbest things he has proposed by far.
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No truth.
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He was thrown out of NOI because he wanted too much power and espoused even more hatred than Farrakhan could tolerate - and that is saying something. He and Farrakhan are not buddies. You are grasping at straws to rationalize why you do not want to vote for a black man.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUEQz5dltmI
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I believe it is true. But look into it for yourself. Research Black Liberation Theology. You can almost end your homework their, because that should be enough. But for more information see what Malik Zulu Shabazz has to say about Obama, and Farakhan. Look how proudly Jeremiah Wright espouses the tenets of Black Liberation Theology and the writings of James Cone in his Book "Black Theology and Black Power". After all this, consider the glaring fact that Obama attended that church for 20 years, and ask yourself what that means. What does your common sense tell you?
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Why should I tolerate bullshit? That's all I've been hearing from the right wingers on this site... not informed, well reasoned positions, but disinformation and nonsense that amounts to pure, unsubstantiated bullshit. I have respect for people, but I have no respect for their bullshit... however, unlike yourself, I can differentiate between the two. Pray for whatever and whomever you'd like, I'll be hoping that people like yourself wise up and stop regurgitating bullshit.
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I have been paying attention to Malik for a long time and I have never heard such a thing. However, I am happy to learn more, and I will look into it more. And what? Do you think Malik would actually try to sabotage Obama's campaign? And why have you not come to fear the same things that I have if you are informed enough to know who Malik is? Malik is not the cornerstone of my argument?
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Besides, there is hardly any information on Malik on Wiki? And by the way, wikipedia is not a bad place to start for information- it is a lot more reliable than just some random blogger anyway.
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woohoo! that's some good crazy.
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Oct 02, 2008 6:23:01 PM CDT
Stock market "volatile" yeah a Hurricane is simply wind "turbula
by g100
Jesus. Wake the fuck up.
And small businesses are far more concerned that they have reliable functioning Banks so they can deal with Payroll and Stock levels week in week out at the moment. -
The government is going bankrupt. We've gone from $5 trillion in debt to over $11 trillion (or 16 if you count the bad loans we got with Freddie and Fannie) in 8 years. Either that or we hack the heck out of the military budget and end the wars. We'd probably have to raise taxes eventually anyway.
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First Blacks are not a monolithic group think. Some dislike Obama intensely - See Jesse Jackson and cutting his balls off. Second: Some blacks distrust Obama for being Too white. Obama was trailing Clinton in Black support before the primaries began. I am a Catholic - lifelong, do I agree with everything my church has said and done? No. Nor do most Catholics - see the whole contraception issue. Bottom line, people pick and choose things to believe in or not - and they make deals with themselves when they see a greater good. Regardless of what I or anyone thinks or Rev. Wright, Trinity served its community very well with its charities and outreach. Obama may have ignored some of the pastors outrageous and inflammatory statements, because he saw a greater good. These are my words not his.
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It distresses me that so many of my fellow actors and movie buffs get caught up in the Hollywood Liberal Lock Step! Just because the Rich and Powerful like to cram this Liberal Agenda stuff down out throughts and use McCarthiast like tactics in Politics(i.e. you just about blacklisted in H-wood for being a conservative or Republican or both!) It does not mean you have to just follow along midlessly with it.
You can disagree with Palin Politically but every time someone from the left tries act like she is dunb or get her on a GOTCHYA! question they end up looking foolish. Except of course to the Mindless Sheep that follow their orders to back it up! Palin is a strong and itnelligent woman that came from a regular background like any of us and has been successful. However because she is a Repeublican the mass Media want to tear her down.
I hope those of us who like to claim we are independant thinkers will start acting like it! I am not saying who you have to vote for but for Pete's sake dont just buy into this Propaganda that certain media people are trying to shovel into everyones head!! -
From my previous discussions with you, I respect your opinion. You seem to have a level head, and because of that, I am strongly curious what you think about what I am proposing here. I know it is dramatic, but that doesn't mean it's not accurate. I accept that it is possible that I might be wrong, but I do know that I haven't lied about anything here. I have offered an argument based on facts that I have been paying attention to for a long time now. If my facts are wrong in any way, please tell me. You already did suggest that I was wrong that Malik and Farakahn were friends and that he left NOI, you may be right, I will have to find out for myself- I am curious. But that was not the crux of my argument. Tell me if I am wrong on any of the facts that I have presented that are the main body of my argument. To accuse Obama of being a racist is definately a very bold statement I know. But I didn't come to this conclusion then search for facts to back myself up, it was a conclusion that I slowly came to over the last couple years as I learned what was going on. It is very possible that he is a racist- there have been MANY prominant black figures in recent history that were. Obama has come farther than any of them by keeping his rhetoric sober- this is my argument. I hope you consider what I have to say without dismissing it out of hand just because it is too dramatic for you to take in.
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Just for clarification, you're saying that right-wingers regurgitate bullshit, but not left-wingers? Is it because they're not open-minded?
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What the hell does matt Damon know about what it takes to handle Putin? I admire his work but i think his opinion is about as relevant as anyone elses. Being a skilled actor doesnt make you smarter than everyone else
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Oct 02, 2008 6:32:44 PM CDT
Samus - how can you say you were paying attention to Malik
by toadkillerdog
For a long time, and not know about his falling out with NOI?
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i don't really have an opinion here but reading your debate ive been thinking something. you're dead right that there is a huge range of opinions in the catholic church and that many catholics cherry pic which things they go for (within reason - there is a church in brisbane that is getting kicked out) but see, one of the things we cherry pick is our priests. Some priests are boring, others idiots others inflammatory many are good. You can be a catholic and change priests, and this is what i keep coming back to. there are some crazy mo fos in the catholic church, but see, i avoid those guys and go to a church with a sane pastor. I wouldn't go back to a service where the priest railed against blacks, i would stay a catholic but switch to a different priest. Though i am not sure of the details here.
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... as much - at least relative to Palin's uber-gaffes/incoherent babbling: Because Biden, as gaffe-prone as he is - and he is a blowhard - has a lot more on the record to counter it. His idiocy is a small part of his overall oeuvre, so to speak ...Palin's "oeuvre" on the other hand is much smaller, so the any moronic moments she's had take up a large percentage of her total output. So yeah Biden is an old fool at times, but she is a young moron A LOT of the time.
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I'd be surprised if a Christian church picked up on the same mythology of an Islamic offshoot. Show me the money!
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In my religion we don't pick and choose what we like and don't like. So I guess I am not coming from the same place you are. Personally I don't even come close to understanding why someone would follow a religion unless they regarded that religion as perfect. If most people are like that, then I can accept your argument. I consider Malcolm X to be an example of someone who only followed his religion because he felt it was perfect and complete. The moment he realized it wasn't, he left. At this point I would feel more comfortable with Malcolm X running for president as the somewhat reformed man he ended his life as than Obama. If Obama left his church, it was political posturing- that is what my common sense tells me. And you may be right, his church may have been a whim for him all along. I don't understand casual religious beliefs, but I know they exist, and I am open to the idea that he is just one of those. But consider that your catholic religion does not offer you such hateful concepts as that which says that "ALL white people are devils". I feel even casual church attenders would leave immediately should they be confronted by such nasty doctrine- if they disagree.
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But I'd rather have him as VP than mushmouth/witch hunter Palin.
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Trinity United Church is BASED on Nation of Islam, at least from what I have been able to understand. Nation of Islam teaches, however, that black people can not be christian. Trinity United Church takes most of NOI concepts and grafts in christianity. There is your money. Just read about it man. Please. Don't rely on me to give you these answers.
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Oct 02, 2008 6:41:41 PM CDT
Samus - it's possible Obama is an Alien from outer space too
by toadkillerdog
I am sure some people must believe that. But just because they think it, does not make it true. You have had a persistent problem with the facts and truth - as we explored in past posts. Remember the dictators? You come up with a thought, and because you have a sliver of inforamation, you then jump to conclusions. Then, when presented with evidence to the contrary, you back -pedal furiously. Like I said, being against Obama on the issues is fine, but creating a false rationale for voting against him, is not only intellectually dishonest, it is stupid too.
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SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST! SEXIST!
Just getting Practice in for the Debate. -
Right wingers don't have a monopoly on bullshit, but, as you and some others here demonstrate daily, they sure have a natural talent for indulging in it.
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see i think this is something people don't give catholics credit for. we truly do examine the alternative positions to our own and accept the possibility that we are wrong. one thing that reviewers keep mentioning about the bill maher doco is the priest at the vatican who accept the flaws of the religion but belive anyway. I think anyone who considers a faith or denomination of a religion flawless is stark raving mad because whenever you organise something you open the way for individuals to benefit from the organizational structure while paying lip service to its underlying goals. Catholics are very aware (and if you go to a catholic school you are taught) about the times in our church's history that were dominated by corrupt individuals (such as the Borgias). anyone who has zero mistrust of an organisation is certifiable.
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I just skimmed through three articles on Black Liberation Theology, including an NPR piece and some blogger's incredibly negative assessment of it as it pertains to Obama's church. There is no mention of whites or anyone else as devils in any of them The Nation of Islam has the mythology involving white devils, that's the one Malcolm X was involved with ... Malik Shabazz I'm pretty sure is also an NOI-sounding name. There may be some community relationship between Obama's church and the NOI but from what I can tell Black Liberation Theology is still a form of Christianity, while the Nation of Islam practices a (bizarre) form of Islam
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So we can just go further into debt forever? WRONG. They are already talking about downgrading the US government's credit rating, and the Chinese are starting to look for other places to invest their money. Going into defeicit in hard times is good, because raising taxes in a down economy is typically bad. But that assumes that the stupid government wasn't running enormous deficits in the good times. There are plenty of insolvent countries that can't pay their debt, look at the third world. We are heading that direction. But that's right, in your right-wing fantasy land, debt is free, the filthy foreigners are too dumb to stop giving us their money no matter how far into debt we go. You are obviously an economic genius. Let's just stop paying taxes altogether and borrow ALL the money we need!
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I stated what I stated based on what you said about Black Liberation Theology, then you switched it to Obama's church. You're now going to have to post some links since I did my hourly maximum of internet research in the name of a stupid message board argument on your ORIGINAL point. Which you might call a request to SHOW me the money, not TELL me about it.
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Palin is neither a mushmouth nor a witch Hunter... see the reason I think people get so heated in political debate at times is because when talking about there is a preconception that there will be Logical discussion. However T-Ross has demonstrated the basic argument that the Liberal media elite and so called intellectual elite devolve into when they cant talk strait on issue. They try to paint an exaggerated characterture of someone and try to use absurd scare tactics to tear them apart. In this case T-ross uses palins accent and Christian background to say she is a "Mushmouth and Witch hunter" Wow real good way to insightful open-minded, accepting and all the other things that Liberal pose to stand for. By the way I actually admire what Liberalism used to stand for. it is unfortunate that it ahs been hijacked by extremeists
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You are right about that, and you put it well. Like I said, those were my words, not Obama's. The cherry picking goes on in just about every religion. We make choices based on our comfort level, and sometimes, just like a bad relationship, we stick around too long because we have become too comfortable. I will be honest, I do not know much about Trinity church, other than snippets I saw on youtube, and some stories - both positive and negative about it. But I do know that to get a complete picture, one must go beyond casual or anecdotal knowledge.
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... right. You know now that I realize Palin is "just like Bill Clinton" - or that Alaska is "just like" Arkansas or any other of the contiguous United States - I feel so much better about the fact that by all appearances to be a vacuous, overly-ambitious halfwit.Oh I'm sure she'll change my mind tonight with her wonderfully-memorized lines and "sassy" political zingers.
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Where did you hear or read that TUC is actually based on NOI? that would be interesting to validate.
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I suggest you widen your spectrum of political knowledge. I'm hardly right-wing. I'm just not as apparently left-wing as you are. (In your own way, you seem to be as bad as any true right-winger, viewing things in strictly black-or-white terms. Not everyone is this country is absolute Republican or Democrat.)
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I think you've just shown us what constitutes a true mushmouth.
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Oct 02, 2008 6:58:26 PM CDT
PASTOR MUTHEE SPOTTED ON THE MCCAIN ARIZONA COMPOUND!!!
by bringingsexyback
Make no mistake - witchcraft is involved tonight. Now I'm afraid. Lord! Make a way!!! Make a way for Senator Biden. Talk to God about this man!!
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I can see what your'e hinting at... monkeys and apes are labled as primates, humans are labled as primates, isn't it possible that humans came from monkeys/apes.
As someone who believes in Biblical creation, I believe humans were a special creation, and so they would not fall under the same created "kind" at other creatures science lables as primates. -
If you truly think I was trying to use "scare tactics" by calling Palin a witch hunter , you are paranoid at best. I think it was pretty obviously a humorous exagerration. THat's not to say you need to find it funny but to characterize it as anything else is patently ridiculous.Also ridiculous is the idea of defending her hideous, mush-mouthed performances whilst being interviewed. And I'm not "liberal" or "intellectual" (??? Jesus talk about assumptions), I just, you know, HAVE EARS AND EYES. If I was a McCain supporter, I'd be even more troubled by her apparent lack of gray matter. I happen to be an Obama supporter but in large part that's because John McCain PICKED A FUCKING IDIOT FOR HIS RUNNING MATE.
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I really can't remember and it might have been a conclusion that I made because their teachings are so similar, and they are both based in Chicago. But it seems to me that I did in fact read that somewhere, look into it.
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McCain's entire staff, including experts who coached Dubya, prepared Palin for this night. It's conceivable she may come out strong. I just hope Biden holds his own.
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Sorry, but what economist is saying we can run these kind of deficits forever? My point is, eventually we are going to have to raise taxes in the GOOD times.
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Black Liberation Theology is CLEARLY the base of Obama's church- that is EVERYWHERE. You don't have to do hardly any research to validate that. Just check. Listen to Jeremiah Wright interview with Hannity (if you can stomach watchin Hannity for a couple minutes:) ). Just do homework, but I am glad you are interested.
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Well look into James Cone's book "Black Theology and Black Power"
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Coming from a guy who warns of the impending Obama police state, I don't think I need any advice from you on what movies to netflix, much less anything actually important.
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You are right. And actually I have to learn more about Trinity United Church as well. More than anything, I just want people to look into it, and then make a conclusion from that point. From my experience, you don't have to dig too deep before you start seeing angry rhetoric towards whites in Trinity United Church. If you look closely at that church and conclude that it is not as racist as it seems- then that is fine. I may be wrong. But it bears looking into. I am glad that you guys seem to be taking this somewhat seriously, it makes me feel a lot more comfortable to know that people don't just glaze over this too quickly. I am happy that if after being well informed on it, you may come to a different conclusion than me.
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Not to worry, I'm not expecting you to be open-minded or anything. (btw, that particular post was "exaggeration," though it's clear that Obama doesn't like dissent.)
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Are you serious or are you just yanking people's chains? I am WELL AWARE Black Liberation Theology is the basis of his church, as I just clearly demonstrated in a response to you. What I am not well aware of, and what I asked you to give links to is the relationship between Obama's church and NOI. Which you won't do, since I just read in a post of yours you "read it somewhere" ... Holy smokes.
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should really just fuck off the planet. There's no place for you here. Read more books, please. It's not rocket science.
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Oct 02, 2008 7:26:02 PM CDT
The difference between "looking novice" and "looking idiot"
by thunderbolt ross
Well, there is a difference.
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I actually didn't clearly demonstrate I knew Back Liberation Theology was the basis of Obama's church, but I didn't question the fact either.
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Glad we got that sorted out, then. Good luck convincing others to be open minded toward your bullshit--- er, exaggerations.
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It is a matter of lowered expectations. Palin has performed so badly, that she can not possilbly get worse. Tonights debate, should really pose little problem for her or Biden. The questions will be on policies - that she has been cramming on. She will regurgitate the party line - even if she does not fully comprehend what she is saying. Biden is gaffe prone, and thus has omre to lose. If Palin simply links hers memorized answeres to the write questions, and does not try to go off script with bullshit answers - a'la her interviews, she should be fine. She does well on camera, and when she can rely on rote. Biden, had better be prepared. I suspect, it will be boring, and that both will be under strict orders to stick to the script and not improvise. My guess, it will be a tie, and spun by both camps as a victory. Actually, it may come out with Palin ahead, because she exceeded expectations - by simply not putting her foot in her mouth.
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It is not just experience, it is comprehension and understanding. She is out of her league and depth. She has never had to face issues beyond the limited scope of a small state (population wise) -nor has she shown the intellectual curiosity to overcome being in a small state. I am not saying she is dumb, she is not. But she does not have the intellectual heft to be President or vice president. She is a decent enough person, but we have already seen what happens when we elect someone based on personality, as opposed to brains or good common sense. She may be the 'guy' next door - albeit with lumps on her chest, but I do not want my next door neighbor running the greatest country on earth.
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REALLY ? No. I'm fairly sure that with this Colossal Economic Clusterfuck and 2 intractable Wars all the public will be looking for is a couple of Palin Zingers and some glib "folksy" generalitities. That should do it. Right ?
A heartbeat away from some of the most complex and serious issues a President could ever face. -
contrary to popular belief most expenditure is non discretionary (unless you count starting a war as discretionary spending) the minority of govt spending is choice based, lets assume that obamas spending is much higher than mcain's (for argument sake) the difference will still constitute a small percent of the overall budget. most will go on fixing roads, ongoing military expenses (even without a war) paying the public service (which tends to grow under repulians). so that is the expense side. largly unchanged between recessions and booms (some changes sure) now the revenue side. when times are good the govt gets a bonanza in tax. more people employed and higher wages. obviously when times are bad, lower wages less employment. so, good times: lots of rev, bad times: smaller rev, same expenses. consequently, unless you want to go back to unsurfaced roads it makes sense to run a deficit in bad times.there is a second reason for this. two types of policy can effect an economy, monetary policy and fiscal policy. most countries have independent central banks that control mon pol. so what can a govt do? well it has fiscal pol. basically you have contractionary fiscal pol (higher taxes, less spending or both) and expansionary fiscal pol (lower taxes more spending) as the names indicate exp will increase unemployment and reduce inflation and vice versa. so in the lean times there is a strong argument for running a deficit to stimulate the economy. that said you are coming from a bad base, you are already in a lot of debt i may fuck this quote but it was a good one (paraphrase) obama: without this bailout a crisis will become a catastrophe. one big reason the crash of 29' and its envitable recession became the great depression was that it instigated a large scale closure of banks. you guys have a recession no matter what you do. you can prevent it from becoming a depression by bailing out the banks.
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Like it or not, quite a few people vote based on 'who they like' not who they think is smarter or best for job. It becomes doubly difficult for Obama, because when that curtain closes, people are going to be confronted with stark reality: 'Can I really vote for a Black man?' So, yes if Palin can re-assure her base, and indepenadants that she is not a complete doofus (and she is not, just sheltered and uninformed - with no time to learn on the job), then it may assuage some who are having problems voting for a Black man, regardless the situation.
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palin sucks...actually i dont know yet but its my prediction and i think thats a right,
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Damn you Michael Bay and Sarah Palin!
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...unless you count on FOX giving you actual news. I will continue to get my news from things like the NY Times, a journal that according to you must be continuing to spread the lies.
As Mayor, she stood by the jerk who was handpicked by her for the job. She did nothing to stop him and the city from continuing to charge victims to 'save the taxpayers money'. The governor had to step in so that victims would stop receiving the bill. Maybe you don't give a crap, but I sure as hell would rather my tax dollars pay for something like that than half the garbage our government pays for.
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Whoo Hoooo!!!!!!!!
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who's here?! live debate talkback!
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Think Bill Maher is right on the money in the respect of religion and Presidents and Presidential Nominees.
That is with 60% of Americans believing literally in the Noah's Ark Story, you would be stupid if you said you were either an athesist or a believer in another religion, regardless of what you actually believe. -
Let the masterdebating begin....
Fail-in Palin just simply needs to show her tits. -
sweet! I'm in Alaska...must be a delay
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Creationism tosses aside fundamental scientific principles and discoveries about evolution, carbon dating, you name it. No self respecting scientist actually believes in the literal explanations in the bible (though many of course have religious beliefs).
That means Palin has no basis to understand issues of global warming, alternative energy, computers, or any other issue in which science needs to be understood to form reasoned solutions. This is why her stance on creationism matters. She cannot make the kinds of informed decisions that a president needs to make. We've seen what that leads to over the past 8 years. You'll see it in the debate tonight. She went to five schools in six years, or was it six schools in five years. You can't cram successfully for a debate if you don't have the background for it just like you can't cram for the presidency.
You're either smart enough for the job or you're not. Obama may not be as experienced as we might like, but he certainly is a hell of a lot smarter than the other guy and will make better choices in crisis situations. You can see that already. -
so wait...it's not true?
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I don't disagree about running a deficit in bad times. But we are no longer in a position where we can totally ignore the debt, because we ran it up so enormously under Bush. At some point, the Chinese and Arabs are going to stop trusting our ability to pay back our loans and they are going to stop buying treasuries. That would be very bad. We not only are running about $600 billion in deficits without the bail out, but we have a $800 billion dollar trade deficit that is funded by foreign loans, as well as $200 billion per yer for the wars. We are spending TOO MUCH even for bad times. As for the bail out, there are 400 economists who have come out saying it's a bad bill. Maybe we need a bail out of some kind, but this particular bill is terrible. FOREIGN banks will be allowed to sell bad mortgage derivatives to us at above face value. YOUR tax dollars will go to alleviate the bad gambles of FOREIGN investors. A large chunk of the bail out money will just leave the country. There's a whole host of other enormous problems with this bill I won't go into here because it feels wrong discussing it here without calling someone a stupid asshole or a prick. It boils down to the fact that Wall Street has given millions to ALL of the major politicians, and now want us to make sure their bad bets get paid on the public dime. This is BAD BAD BAD because it will only reinforce bad behaviors on the part of the banks who were the most dishonest while driving the honest banks (who will not get bailed out, because they didn't take those extravagant risks) into a position where they can't compete. Look. the fed has already doled out nearly this much through their TAF, and the economy is NO better off, why do we think this bail out will make any difference? Because some lying politician like Bush or Pelosi says so? They're both lying assholes and fuckwits! (I feel better now).
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Poor bloody woman should have said No, when Mccain asked her to be his running mate. She's too under qualified and too damn dumb!
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woo hoo!
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biden or palin? i pick palin the milf.
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this bitch means bizness! (the mediator)
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Oct 02, 2008 8:03:35 PM CDT
"Will I still have a Job in the future?" beats "Awww, she's cute
by g100
But yeah, there might be a few dumb enough to be swayed on her "folksy" image.
But the fact the many Republicans are now backing slowly away from Palin doesn't bode well even if she doesn't fall flat on her ass. -
when she appears im doing it serious.
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afafasfasfsga
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Whoo hoo!
she's a robot so far -
she talks like a robot who was ordered to say blah blah blah oh wait blah some more
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This talkbalk is owned by the devil! Lets get that witch doctor who did Palin over here now!
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she keeps looking at the camera i think i know why.....photoshoot! playboy territory.
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And Republicans are all Mavericks now.
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thats why
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take advantage of who, its u who wants to rape us bitch.
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We can, darn right, agree on this, darn right, do this to get it done. DARN RIGHT!
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Had to say it since nobody had yet... MILFASAURUS SEX!!
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she's had to clean Todd's jizz off of those shiny glasses.
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i think she masturbated before she came on stage. so as to ease her stress,
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"i'm not going to answer the questions i'm gonna tell ya'll this shit!..." hahahahaha
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...answers the question"...can you believe this shit?
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Whose playing Biden? Is that Chris Parnell?
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15 each
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and i think i know what shes gonna do with it oh man
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...is Failin. What a dumb broad. "I might not answer the question in a way that answers the question" is perhaps the worst "answer" I have ever heard a politician give to a question.
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If she says it one more time, I'll have finished this bottle of tequila.
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look closely at her neck and chest. Tod was a busy boy!!! thats how Alaskans do it. Drill and Spill!!!!
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When Bidden throws her a curve ball that isn't on her prepped agenda. She says. I'm not gonna answer that. I'll get back to ya lol.
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"of george bu...i mean john mccain"
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This is an hour and a half Guys an Gals. Pace yourselves.
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That's why she keeps going back to certain issues, because they're next on her prepared list.
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It begiiiiins.
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What an idiot, she just reminded the country she has only been at this for 5 weeks.
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and im gonna give it to her.
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NOT a good sign.
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dumbass!!
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you're seizing up something in my pants Sarah.
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her sentences are ... err...5 weeks!!!
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But I'm not sure why, so let me talk about my energy policy again."
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i've got sweaty palms!
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she doesnt want to answer the question thats why shes staying on the attack.
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..what? He's not dead? Sorry.
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If she doesn't have any idea what causes it how the fuck can she stop it ?
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jesus hates that bitch
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yeah i cant tell if it's cause i'm high or her fast talking scripted lines
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notes. She's not staying on the question. She's been baby fed if you don't know the answer then turn the question around and answer something else that she practiced.
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Like countries that didn't ratify the kyoto protocols. Oh, the USA is one of those countries....nevermind.
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drill we must
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she doesn't support equal civil rights for gay couples... does she want camps or something?
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sawwwy....
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we all agreee YAY yeepee !!!!!
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the way she repeated what the moderater said...creepy
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i hate fags tooo my friends hate fags tooo but we all keep our mouth shut
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if any of y'all are into baseball. and you should be. cause there's only one october.
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big ones
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White Flag of surrender. What a clueless Douche.
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Palin - Give us a chance, will end this war, with victory! 'Mission Acomplished'
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He's a total 'mo! Weird old man sex!!!!!
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He is debating John McCain....and I love it. This broad does not belong on that stage. S
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He is debating John McCain....and I love it. This broad does not belong on that stage.
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There is seriously nothing on TV. I am finally checking out Supernatural though. Not a bad little show.
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Last time I checked this was a website about tv, movies....you know the entertainment industry. Not the Huffington Post.
You Cuntfuck -
it is now. forget hollywood Washington is where all the action is
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Palin is a joke, but he is making himself look like a cocky asshole.
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Is on right now... Coincidence, thou art a foul bitch.
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Most her debate consist of her saying is McCain voted against. He voted against every policy George had. Oh so he can't be trusted on supporting his own party
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it does admit it.
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Talking about Joe Biden in the third person.
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What could Palin say? "He didn't know the guy was from Spain, ya know"?
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"Oh every Administration has blunders." Just that every Bush Administration move was a blunder, lol
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hard of hearing
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that i like to stick my cock in its ass. thats how i love it.
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Omg, this bitch is the most ridiculous person on Earth. This whole thing has been hilarious! Biden is DESTROYING her. McSame is fucking weeping right now.
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Palin once again sticks to repeated catchphrases and talking points. She just kept saying "We will be a friend to Israel" repeatedly. Biden showed a thorough understanding of the policy faliures that have resestablished Hamas and Hezbellolah in the region and even tied them to Iran. He even forwarded solutions to the problemds. He just didn't keep saying "McCain/Palin is a friend to Israel" over and over. Palin can't debate Biden on foreign affairs. She knows absolutely nothing about them.
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only fair when you blow them up.
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She'll embarrass herself by pronouncing nuculer.
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what is distracting you? Is there a huge cock dangling in your face?
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That's McSurge Mcsame for ya
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= stop loss
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'Cause being VP is not a job she is going to be getting. So don't worry neocons, the retarded fundie milf will live on as a kind of failed celebrity on your favorite propaganda network.
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"Can I talk about moose hunting?"
Thanks for the laugh.
That is all. -
Screw it....Raptor Jesus 08!!!!!
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is kicking ass. Considering McCain would bounce in the polls even if she managed to simply to not throw up and run away screaming, look for a significant bump in a couple days.
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$700 Billion all at once to bail out the greedy wallstreet giants, aided by the Obama puppetmaster Fannie Mae
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oh you cunt, you said yes to the bridge then you changed your story.
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Look I'll vote for a giraffe in Nov just as long as it wasn't part of the Bush administration.
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Don't try to bring up Biden's initial support of the war and agreeing with McCain. Because it allows two things: 1) Biden to say how the senate was misled by the Bush administration on the WMDS 2) Point out he no longer agrees with McCain because of his failures. It is not a good debate position. Second note to Sarah, Biden like alot of americans did agree with the war initially. You allow the audience to identify with his change of position. Not smart.
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As in, she has no experience whatsoever and is woefully unqualified, not to mention retarded.
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She is striking the exact right notes to get working class people too exhausted to pick up a decent newspaper excited. She comfortable, folksy, and ballsy. Biden's on defense (he'd have to be to not appear sexist) and Palin looks like that hockey-mom reformer that was so damn appealing right after McCain picked her. This could be the first vp debate game changer in history.
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she started robot mode. she changes her tone when shes repeating stuff she mesmerized
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Vote for Obama or 4 more years of, My Name is Earl.
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his hairpiece mesmerizes me.
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...like that? What the fuck.
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are you saying that if obama wins they are going to cancel my name is earl? MCAIN/PALIN 08!!!!
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She just lost the race for McSame. Its done. She sounds like an idiot and Biden's laying out the facts and pwning her pretty badly.
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...and be held on his ass as prisoner for five years is what he knows...
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have their head hung near a moosehead
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God she's good. I was just about to exhale when Biden got it back to the economy when she "say it ain't so, Joe"'d the room. Shout outs to teachers. God damn.
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She sounds like some woman teaching kids who ride the short bus..
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It ain't working.
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Oct 02, 2008 9:13:59 PM CDT
Ooooh palin slipped up. That's that Alaska humor we heard about
by orionsangels
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3rd grader: i want a blowjob not extra credit give me a blowjob bitch.
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Sweet Jesus this was the easiest open goal in the history of VP debates and Biden has royally fucked it up. Well done you bumbling tool. Thanks America for 4 years of fucktards McCain and Palin.
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I do think a Earl/Crabman ticket might defeat Obama/Biden.
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People don't respond to facts, they respond to personality. Didn't Bush's cowboy brush-cutting two terms teach you anything?
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they told her to talk to the camera like a newscaster
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I've never seen that word spelled out, because I don't live in the 50s.
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that's the only reason why he picked her
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OMFG....tell me you got that, tell me you got that!
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...she had the killer lunchroom instincts of a popular high school queen bee.
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Oct 02, 2008 9:17:14 PM CDT
Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also
by g100
Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also and Also Moosehunting.
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And I'm looking for a new job.
Suggestion? PORN. -
connecting mccain with bush
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Does McCain have any shot at all after Palin's bomb tonite?
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That's right. Wish it weren't.
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He said, FOR A FACT, "YOU? This is the greatest country in the world. We have an entire system to keep people like you from ever becoming president! Stop your day-dreaming, Melonhead!"
Palin disproves that point. -
She's KILLING. Just wait for the bump. It's coming. Normal people, who watch NCIS and laugh at According to Jim are smitten. She didn't puke on her flag pin- she wins.
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not on the facts, but on the charm factor. She has been succinct and to the point whereas Biden has rambled. Personally I find her an utterly condescending and smug cunt, but I can see that the average American idiot will lap it up.
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Wait a minute. Holy Shit! A vote for McCain is a vote for the new Ronald Reagan!
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....Poor LIttle Match Girl Sad Story....nicely done.
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Were those Hillary tears from Biden? Is he trying to out-chick her?! Dumb-ass!
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Watching this debate live, I am not even sure if Palin is speaking English, she opens her mouth and gibberish comes out. She is clearly insane and representative of every thing that the rest of the world perceives as being wrong with America. She is a bible bashing, folksy moron who is so obviously unqualified for any form of sincere statesmanship that is is completely baffling to think this person is actually on my TV screen partaking in such a high level debate. It is truly mind boggling! If she gets in as VP and anything happens to McCain...She will be president...can you imagine how terrible that would be?! I shudder to think...
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choked up JUST right...
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Biden taking a page out of Hillary's play book and getting teary eyed! good job Joe!
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This isn't American Idol. She has Zero Depth. But her completely robotic delivery isn't helping her "folksy" image either.
The "Maverick" horseshit is ALSO getting NEARLY as Old as McCain. -
every time she's said McCain is a maverick just come back and say McCAIN VOTED THE SAME WAY AS BUSH 90% OF THE TIME.
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Oct 02, 2008 9:24:29 PM CDT
Cedar that's what he has to do. What Obama should have done
by orionsangels
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This IS American Idol.
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"How are we going to pay these tuition bills?"
Your assets total over a million dollars, you fucking stupid bitch. -
10 point lead for Obama after the next polls? Maybe it's my bias, but she is horrible at this.
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If i hear the word maverick one more time I gonna jump through the TV and rip the podiums apart.
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People LOVE Obama. Like flat out fucking LOVE him. He's got crazy personality AND he's intelligent AND he's a great orator. People react to him like the messiah. Kerry was just "Not Bush" and thats not enough to motivate people. Did you know anyone who was on fire for Kerry? Yeah, me neither. But people are on fire for Obama. Palin has some popularity, but Obama love is much deeper and much wider. This election is all but won. I think its going to be close-ish, but Obama is going to take this.
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...here at the end. "the common clay of the New West....you know...morons." You gotta keep them happy.
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Now jobs win over cuteness. Trust me on that.
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Believing a total fucking moron can become president...Is this a good thing?
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don't live up to the American dumbass image. The person who runs our country is the Prime Minister - and gets elected in a much fairer and more democratic way than you elect your President.
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...LOL
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but Obama's black. He's awesome, but semi-rural freaks just made some babies due to Palin's everylady performance. I hope he wins.
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fo sho
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The Pibull Whines about the Media before they replay all her rambling. Nice!
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I still don't know what Maverick shit that they will engage in if they win!
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That was good, seriously
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Goose just went into ICEMAN's jetwash!
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Obama love is more about his personality and intelligence. People love Palin because of two points: 1) Pro-Life 2) Gun-Friendly. Two two simple points will get you a good 30% of the popular vote on those two principals alone. Alot of people on the right care about only those two issues alone. Economy..nah, Iraq... nah, Energy Policy... nah. Guns and abortion... absol-fucking lutely, Hoss. Honestly at this point if they flipped the Republican ticket they might have a better chance of winning.
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Wins. I bet Obama still pulls it out in the end, but things just got a lot more interesting.
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...I'm not sure how this will play tomorrow. Palin lovers will still love her, but I'm not sure about Independents.
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nice biden
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Its done, MILF, better head on back to the moose huntin' ranch! DUH-HILT!!!
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That's worse than breaking your leg while playing chess?
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says me! right?
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"I choose not to answer that."
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it WAS a great performance.
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I think we could have concluded that before the debate even started.
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For spreading rumors about Palin's personal beliefs and then ridiculing those faiths. I'm sure you don't have any beliefs that others might find ridiculous. But just to in case you do, would you mind sharing any so we may ridicule you? If not, maybe someone can supply some wholecloth to make you look stupid. It's a thinly vieled mystery why so many claim this website has been prejudicial and nasty towards the (admittedly poor) Republican candidates.
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WTF! Who lets a child that young walk around holding a baby?
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uh, no honey, I really don't. Reasonably attractive, soccer momish? Sure. But he rvoice is grating and her homespun crapola is a load of crapola. And her facts were few, her talk of their "change" intangible. Reform what? Biden nailed (again) for me with the $250,000 money makers and above benefitting less from a plan than those below. Boo hoo for them. I could give a shit about their problems. Also, "I'm tolerant" she says. In a pig's eye. She fuckin' hates gays, atheists, agnostics, and liberals of every kind, there's no doubt.
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Seriously get a fucking grip.
She didn't take a dump on the stage but no-one could watch that and think, there is a President ready to lead in 2 intractable Wars and repair a shattered Economy. -
GOTCHA, BITCHES!!! You thought I was gonna say who!I thought this debate was better than the Obama-McCain debate. Who won? Who cares? Did you hear anything new beyond the old talking points? Can't we do better than this? I mean, fuck, this is the Internet age. Bring some new and fresh and unaltered info to the table for Pete's sake!
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Beliefs? You mean antimodern accounting errors? Dinosaurs and people were contemporaneous?? Did they have air conditioning, too?
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and palin is great at giving talking points...prob is, not one thing that she said about her record was true...they dont have state taxes in alaska, so she did not cut taxes...she cut property taxes in wasilla, but weighed heavily to box stores...go look at pics of wasilla, the place is a mess...she left wasilla with a 20 mil deficit (she came in with a budget surplus) she has appointed hs friends to positions of power, irrespective of their experience...she appointed her sons gf to a commission on volunteerism, despite the fact that the girl is going off to school and doesnt have even the tiniest experience doing anything other then sitting on tracks white dick and snorting crank off his chest....the woman is a puppet...pray for america should mccain win
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Oh yes they could. Wait and see.
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'cause I am one.
If I wasn't so worried about the mess it would make, I would vomit. If ANYONE buys the shit she was spewing... I notice she didn't mention how her DECISION TO CHARGE RAPE VICTIMS IN HER STATE FOR THEIR RAPE KITS IN THE HOSPITAL wasn't mentioned. WAY TO STAND BEHIND THE PEOPLE, bitch. FUCK YOU and your winking-at-the-camera spiel. FUCK YOU. If this performance- PERFORMANCE- is all it takes to obscure the fact the FUCKING MCCAIN PULLED OUT OF MICHIGAN CAUSE THEY FUCKING LOST ALREADY, I'm not kidding. I am moving to Montreal. I hear they have FAB little theaters that show all KINDS of cool-ass shit that I don't get to see in bum-fuck New Jersey.
I am astonished, after her bullshit Couric performance, she nailed this. ASTONISHED. -
I thought you had the channels on. Whats the betting that, in fact, that IS the way they are spinning it?
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back when she was first named the VP pick and everyone was talking this young attractive woman. I saw her and said, "No."
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standards? i am sure that one of the reasons you married your wife is because you guys can talk...ask her to think about spending 40 years with palin and that vapid sense of the world....
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Fred got on with Dinosaurs just fine.
Besides, why would a potential President need to be well versed in the hard facts of Evolution, Biology, Modern Technology, Economics or Science in 2008? -
in every semi-rural community from coast to coast, including Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin...
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Pathetic....
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She WOULD be beautiful... if she wasn't a hatehul harpy who thinks that Jesus demands that rape victims pay for their treatment and bear the children of their rapists, maybe. Maybe.... nah, I take it back. Her voice destroys any attractiveness she night have had. I would personally do Hillary before her. As a chick, and all.
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she DID win!
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you're wrong. If McCain-Palin gets in there, we are going to be deeper in the hole than we are now. Welcome to Creationism taught in schools and women being castigated if they happen to be victims of rape.... for starters. You're sticking your head WAY down there in the sand, buddy.
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Palin is going to be picking pieces of Biden's ass out of her high heels for a month.
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Amusing as this debate was, if they can't put the Bailout to a vote tomorrow because they think it will still get voted down and Wall Street gets wind of it...
This little skirmish will be forgotten in a heartbeat never mind a week. -
She owned it.
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"She won by not losing": A lot of people WANT to pull for her, and she gave them the opening.
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no. She ended up breaking even. She is an accomplished test-taker, to be sure, but a record of cronyism in her own state is undeniable. We are in for more of the same with McCain-Palin, no doubt.
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then rural ones. She so didn't come close to "win." Of course it wasn't a DISASTER like her last few interviews, but Biden laid up a slam dunk on MILFy-poo.
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She stands for those things, and legitimizes them to a new degree, but the federal gov't will NOT bend to her will. There remains a diverse Congress to contend with, and those remain fringe issues even for Republicans.
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Gotta love this new spin, what a load of SHEEEEEEIT. I mean, HOLY SHIT. The GOP fucks us up the ass for 8 years, and now "looking back" is a BAD THING???? Yeah, OK. What color is the sky in the Republican world???? (Watching MSNBC... full disclaimer)
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she pawned him so bad...go palin Palin rules!!!!!!!
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Thats right! He worked closely, and is all but indistinguishable from several of the most evil men on Earth -- Cheney, Bush, et al...
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I agree with you- I'm PrObama. But she played VERY well with alot of semi-ural folks across the country, especially the battleground. She picked up votes for the ticket tonight - just wait for the polls...
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Biden pooped on her face. Especially when asked if she can fill McCains shoes if he died. In no way did she prove she could do that.
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"She stands for those things, and legitimizes them to a new degree, but the federal gov't will NOT bend to her will. There remains a diverse Congress to contend with, and those remain fringe issues even for Republicans."
This is a candidate that just "agreed" with Cheney that the VP has a wide range of powers (previously unexplored) under the constitution. She'll do whatever she can through decree and dare anyone to do anything about it, just like this administration has. -
Don't matter anyway the base of both sides will claim victory.
but also I also seriously also doubt Palin has also somehow reversed McCains poll decline with that performace... Also.
We'll see next week though won't we ?
And how exactly can she hide from the reporters NOW ? Also. -
please even out the "Fuck You"s and the "Bitch"s and direct some towards Mr. Biden, please. Holy shit! Feel free to disagree with opposite political beliefs but for the sake of humanity, learn how to be civil. Isn't name calling and profanity-laced diatribes the calling card of someone who lost an argument/debate and doesn't have the mental capacity to end a situation that is going nowhere?
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I'm arguing with actual fact. The spin is spin. I fear that it will have more play than I can imagine with dumb-fuck racist moron assholes all over this great nation... but my hope is that this will squash any rumors of her stepping down. WE NEED HER ON THIS TICKET, because she can't keep this recital up for four more weeks. She is a hot mess.
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Palin will not make women give birth to babies in the instance of rape. She just won't be able to. Nor will she be able to force creationism into public schools. She gets those freaks to the table, and that's a bad thing longterm, but she will not wield the kind of power in which hyperbolic posters indulge.
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Check out this Rolling Stone article on McCain's life:http://tinyurl.com/3oje6nThroughout the campaign this year, McCain has tried to make the contest about honor and character. His own writing gives us the standard by which he should be judged. "Always telling the truth in a political campaign," he writes in Worth the Fighting For, "is a great test of character." He adds: "Patriotism that only serves and never risks one's self-interest isn't patriotism at all. It's selfishness. That's a lesson worth relearning from time to time." It's a lesson, it would appear, that the candidate himself could stand to relearn.
"I'm sure John McCain loves his country," says Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism czar under Bush. "But loving your country and lying to the American people are apparently not inconsistent in his view."http://tinyurl.com/3oje6n -
i agree! like when i said biden pooped on her face...i totally take that back
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She did not answer many questions, and fell back into her comfort zone - energy. Biden was on tonight, but he could have eviscerated her on a number of issues, but chose not to. That resulted in her being able to turn on the small town charm. She plays well on TV. I could not stand the winks and obvious evasions, but I think she shored up her base, and made no mistakes. She held her own, on her own terms. Biden showed the superior knowledge and debate ability. But in the end, it was a draw. And I do not think it will change the game in any direction. But at least it will keep McCain from slipping further - this week. Goodbye Cubbies
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I want a better ticket, even for the republicans. Put Romney on the ticket - the GOP might win.
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Cheney has expanded the realm of the VP's influence considerably. She WILL have more influence than she should... and as a woman, I am TERRIFIED. She is a horror.
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Oct 02, 2008 10:03:26 PM CDT
Thebearovingian....You DO Realize Where you are at?!!!
by darfurontherocks
Welcome to the Jungle! But I agree let's keep this civil.
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Romney on the ticket would equal Republican victory. My one joy in this night's performance from Palin ensures that she will not be removed from the ticket. Romney is a no-go, Sarah recited well!!!!
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She'll be influential, no question. I don't want her there AT ALL. But I think the horror liberals are feeling is a bit overcooked.
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you could not be more wrong. Bush hasn't been in control since 2001. He does a sweet softshoe, though...
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im voting for mccain folks...why? well lets see...he got palin shes totally cool. shes like one of us unlike that elite guy with sunglasses
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Cause if that don't pass Wall Street will head south REAL fast.
And I'm not denying she has an appeal to a certain demographic of Voters. But that demographic was shrinking for her before this debate and the Economy will dominate and overshadow even Obama and McCains next debate never mind this one. -
the real horror the liberals are feeling really IS NOT about Palin (horrific as she may be) it's about McCain. He makes decisions from the gut and deals with the results later. Look at the LAST MOTHERFUCKING WEEK. He changes his position with the wind. He's WORSE than Bush, if that's possible. WORSE.
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but IF the GOP wins, I'd much prefer Romney. I'll never pray for an unqualified ticket because the likelihood my candidate would win improves. That's a karmic gamble I'm not prepared to take.
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With such a low bar to jump, I give Palin a lot of credit for not fainting on stage or speaking in tongues. She had a few speechless duh moments but semi-recovered. I won't slag her for that. Good job, Pastor Muthee.
But Biden nailed it. Not only gaffe-free, but totally on point, a fact machine, corrected Palin's lies, and dismantled McCain's maverick image down to the last brick.
Where Palin refused to answer a number of questions, he kept on topic and addressed every one. He was fearless on every topic where Palin just muddled or dodged through. That's what's important. And she made a major gaffe by NOT KNOWING what the VP's role is. Biden took her to school on the CONSTITUTIONALLY-DEFINED role of the VP.
Biden also had the best moment of the night - where he teared up. That had our personal judg-o-meters spiking through the roof.
Speaking of which, I was shocked by how many spikes through the roof Biden received on the CNN audience meter (as well as winning the CNN pundit polls 5 to 1). Palin definitely turned on the folksy high-falutin' elevated rhetoric, but it was Biden who managed to connect with the audience with a mix of idealistic language and solid facts and truths.
Good debate. Biden FTW -
I'm civil. OK, I try to be civil. Even on the Internet. You know what they say about character...
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dude. Not cool. You will never get laid having said that... nto even if it's satire.
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Liberals are more incensed by Palin's antimodern platform (the whole rape/creationism/abortion/speaking-in-tongues business) rather than McCain's impulsiveness. Most liberals I know (and I know many) didn't fully freak until Sister Sarah parachuted in.
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much less the middle class. He left his Irish setter in it's crate on the roof of the family car for a family trip... when the dog shat itself in terror, he stopped the car, hosed the dog down, AND KEPT GOING. He is a sadistic bastard. Look it up.
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Yes, she blew it on the constitutionality of the V.P. role, but, I think that is so 'inside' washington, that it will barely register.
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day. She will go home tonight and beast fuck Todd. She's gonna beat his ass and rip that dude's dick right off.
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I wouldn't VOTE for Romney, I just think the country's affairs would be in less jeopardy with him than with Palin.
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those of us voting for Obama for the ISSUES know that McCain is more of the same, and is playing for the Boomer-"Greatest Generation" vote... which means that all of most of us on this board (I suspect...) for whom health-care is an elusive dream and the word "pension" is from a mythical time of yore will be SCREWED if McCain gets into office in January. Believe it.
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And that COULDN'T POSSIBLY be him hoping she will put her foot in her mouth and freeing the field up for his 2012 run. Could it ?
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Palin represents the type of conservative that Liberals are genetically programmed to hate/fear. Attractive, glib, personable, clueless. In short, the perfect storm. I am an independant, and I find the Libs reaction very amusing.
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sure coz thats all i do, and that i got no brain at all just a penis-driven idiot. !!!thats my opinion that is unmotivated by fuckry.
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its a dog so what i swear i never get pple like you, its a dog not treating pets like babies doesnt mean you are Satan okay!
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"What's your name"
"George Stone"
"Nah, what was it before yeh CHANGED IT?"
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Explain. Me dumbfounded.
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I'm not one of those fucktards who believe in animals-before-people, but cruelty to animals is a bad sign. You do know they use that to determine whether someone might be a psychotic, right?
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I thought you would get it. *sniff* The scene from Untouchables? Where Connery asks Garcia his name? Because he KNOWS he's changed it? Like I know you must be one of the ole guard, from before the ScriptGirl incident??? Just sayin...
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I've been Holy Hell since I signed up a like a year and a half ago. I don't know if that's a comfort or a disappointment to you, but there it is.
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Not to throw gasoline on your fire, but Sarah Palin supported legislation offering a bounty of $150 per paw for every wolf killed. She enthusiastically supported aerial killing of defenseless wolves.
She also sued the Federal government to take the polar bears - who are drowning due to glaciers melting and turning to cannibalism because they are starving - off the endangered species list. She wants to remove protection for them.
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Oct 02, 2008 10:32:41 PM CDT
But BSB you are out of touch because you are not from Wassila
by darfurontherocks
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Does a dog not cry when it's hurt? Does a dog not feel joy? Sorrow? A dog is one of God's creatures - to be cruel against a dog is to be cruel to God.
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She did better than expected and surprisingly didn't stumble, but still came off very rehearsed and ignorant of some the points; repeating herself many times. She also has a tendency of creating a whirlwind of words taking a long time to make her point.
I think that she does that when she's trying to think of an answer.
Biden on the other hand was very succinct and clear. He seemed natural and real and most importantly knowledgeable. He engaged the moderator, audience and camera.
She would only engage the camera and occasionally make that annoying wink. If you, still, after watching that debate, feel the McCain/Palin ticket is the right choice, then you are not voting for country first, you are only voting out of sheer foolish pride for your party. That's not what this or any election should be about.
McCain is 72 years old. He could easily die in office, you cannot seriously believe she can handle the job. She wouldn't even be able to handle the job of VP much less President.
The choice is clear. -
Ummm... in a reasonable world, there'd really be no super passionate "he won/she won" type reaction. They both just stuck to their talking points "Lets bring maverick reform to washington" and "McCain = Bush." I don't think anybody "won" because... well, it never felt like a debate. It just felt bland. The only people interested in making a stink or significance about this are the networks who want ratings.
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I don't know if that's high irony, but if sincere I endorse your dog/God equation.
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LOVE that you brought all that up, but see, with Palin, it's so much easier to keep to HUMAN issues. SHE HATES WOMEN, she promotes middle-school classmates to positions they are WHOLLY unqualified for, and she DIDN'T HAVE A FUCKING PASSPORT until 2007. How any of this is not reaching the idiots in the heartland who think she's the bees' knees, is beyond me. ENTIRELY. She's abhorrent.
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That's right I'm a fucking elitist. Cry me a fucking river Wasila!
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here endeth the lesson.
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That's the stuff that IS reaching the heartland. That's exactly why she's resonating. I'm going to bed. Everybody get well soon.
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removed from the list because of a natural gas project. This bitch is dangerous and you republicunts want to give her more power and money? WTF! Her LOL (lack of logic) and mind set is the reason the world has problems. Greed and power. Her type is the worst the planet has seen.
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I started typing it as irony but ended up feeling strong empathy for said dog. It ain't easy being Liberal what can I tell ya.
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there are more important things at stake than dogs feeling sad and lonely alright? okay now.
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She nailed this one. As long as I can remember you guys have been eagerly anticipating this debate, proclaiming how horribly Biden was going to show her up. Why was that? I really never understood why except for the fact that he had so many more years of experience. The poll numbers on McCain have been dropping and I believe mostly because of Palin's "poor" performance on Gibson and Couric. I just finished watching Olberman meekly trying to deny Palin her victory, which was more of an admission than I EVER expected from him. And now I look on this thread and see some of that same meekness. I am saying this is a game changer. Those poll numbers are coming back up now, because they were based on unfair assesments of her ability to handle herself. I knew it was true. And a part of me believes that she might actually have known what the Bush Doctrine is because her response suggested that she understood what a broad and unspecific question Charlie Gibson was offering her. Charlie Gibson then played "Gotcha" by describing a fraction of the bush doctrine, and not the whole bush doctrine. There exists no proof that she didn't know what it was, but I believe I see proof that Charlie Gibson did not know what it was. Then afterwards as the throngs of comedians and commentators made fun of her for not knowing what the bush doctrine was- they demonstrated their fractional knowledge of what it was by defining it exactly as Gibson had. Palin could not of course come forth and defend herself because it was too late- everyone was now convinced that she hadn't known, and nothing she could say from this point would EVER change their mind now. I however think she may have actually known. Anyway, it doesn't matter too much, because she did so much better in this debate than all the democrats thought she would, and now they have no choice if they want to be intellectually honest but to admit she did FAR better than they ever gave her credit for. It makes me happy to see a normal person do well in the world and represent normal people.
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Watch this video and take comfort (keep an eye on the elderly couple in the middle):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTkqosRiyYo -
and she came off looking like a freshman sorority pledge at the end of rush week; sweaty, covered with the discharge of an older and wiser man, and deep in the dignity defecit.
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I, for one, distinctly said she had the ability to stop her own bleeding with a fair performance tonight. She accomplished that.
Did she convince anyone she's ready to be President-in-waiting? Not by a long shot. -
If that's true what the fuck is Micheal Vick in prison for?
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thats what my Chinese friend says
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oh wait what did i mean by that. man thats a thinker.
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Good, yes bleeding did stop. I think McCains poll numbers are going up from here. I'm glad to see that you were watching the same debate I was.
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DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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watching a seeing-eye dog guide a blind person, giving that person not only freedom to navigate our beautiful world, but giving unconditional love - love that we find hard to give each other.
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give it a rest...zero pets in the future thats what im voting for. filthy little buggers and baby-eating puppies, and weird freaky looking lazy cats and ass licking dogs and scratchy dont-give-a-fuck cats, and humping dogs and i-shit-everywhere-coz-i-said-so dogs....and the list goes on.
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Ohhh,you betcha! Don't cha know! Oh Yeah? What a character.
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Thank you for reminding everyone what the Constitutional duty of the office of Vice President actually is. (Because the notion that Palin wants to further expand the powers of the VP is frightening.). And thank you for calling her on the "The Maverick, John McCain" bullshit.You were a little stiff in the beginning and you looked like you had decided to handle her with kid-gloves. But in the end, you brought it home.
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Hell yeah
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Quote: "I am saying this is a game changer."VERY doubtful. As for her ability to handle herself...yes, she proved that she can recite well rehearsed talking points in a non-debate format with the best of them.
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Why does that offend people so much? It's not an act, at least I don't think so- and so what it leaves us with is a portrait of a real human being. Commentators complain endlessly (rightfully so) that our politicians are completely out of touch with regular "folks". They are right to complain because that is something we really need. A smart person who understands the issues, but comes from amongst US. We need a person like that. Who among you doesn't agree that is EXACTLY what we need in Washington? Well now we have her, and you want to make fun of her accent and her folksiness. Did you decide that you were wrong and you want your stiff rich starch shirt politicians back? I want someone like Sarah Palin, because she represents people like me. Her "folksiness" gives me little indications that she is like people like me.
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By game changer, I meant that McCain will now stop dropping in the polls as he has been for the last little while, and he is going to start climbing again. Do you disagree?
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that thinks that Wall Street bailed out. Let them fix their own problems. Only thing i see is the stock numbers drop but at the same time more cash in my pocket due to gas prices dropping with it hmmm the rich get poorer and all of a sudden prices drop wow isnt that weird
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Bush played the same folksy card. Nuff said.
Gaius - great points. -
Take a look at the CNN and CBS polls. Read 'em and weep. Those are some definitive fucking numbers (more so than after the first Presidential debate for instance).Most people thought what I did: Palin lost this debate.
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wall street should not be bailed out
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I just popped in so I missed a lot of what was said, but I'd like to address a couple of your points from a previous post. I never thought that this would be a blood bath, but I think the reason that she did better here than in the interviews had nothing to do with reporters playing "gotcha." In the interviews she had to think on her feet and she is not very knowledgeable in any of the issues in which she was questioned. In the debate, though, she was well prepared and stuck to what she had prepared no matter what the question. She made almost no attempts to answer the questions she was asked, instead flying off into unrelated issues. Now this is something many, many, many politicians do, so I'm not directly knocking her, but this is my theory on why the bumbling interviewee looked like a stronger debater. And game changer? Eh. I think things might just level off until the vice presidential nominees have the same effect that they always do- a minimal one.
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Fundamentally, I disagree. But we're still 33-32 days away from the election. The poll numbers are going to fluctuate regardless.
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I think we should not give that 700 billion. I can't say for sure. But the dropping stock numbers despite the fact that the bailout seems to be about to succeed demonstrates to me that stocks are not dropping because of the possibility that the bailout won't happen, but instead because Obama is ahead in the polls and he promises to raise taxes on all proffits made in the stock market. Of course it doesn't take a genius to see that investors are far less eager to buy when it seems Obama will take over. Watch what happens tommorow. Everyone thinks Palin won this debate, and that is most definately going to result in a better day for the Dow Jones first thing in the morning. Watch and see. Prove me wrong. The better McCain does from this point on, the better the market will do- why would it be any different?
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your a fucking disgrace to metriode you stupid a-hole
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It's a little sad to me that some of the more interesting public debating I read is on a movie web site. I work with a canvassing group in Wisconsin and I talk to people everyday who have no fucking idea what is actually going on in this election. They make their decisions based on talking points, not facts. So I think it's awesome that you guys are so into it, but the state of knowledge in average Americans depresses the shit out of me.
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Biden Won 46%Palin Won 21%Tie 33%CNN Poll:Biden 51%Palin 36%Ha.
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Did I just write that? It was a long day of canvassing.
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For a lot of people, expectations were so low for Palin that she exceeded them handily. For me though, my expecations were high - too high. I was hoping so much - perhaps unwisely, given the format - that she would deliver a disastrous, hilarious Couric intervew-esque meltdown. She didn't do that of course, and I was disappointed and a little bored.But watching some of the clips they're playing now, I feel like she was actually reasonably amusing in her performance. And I didn't appreciate it because I wanted an absolute horror show. Yes it would have been great but I really missed a chance to laugh gently along with her more measured ridiculousness. Ah well!
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I think you have a good point. I know what you are talking about and I will grant you that. I do think that this will have a more positive effect than a normal running mate would provide, however. When it comes to Palin, she has a dramatic influence on the Polls, much more than any running mate I can think of. This is an unusual election with an unusual VP pick. I think everyone will agree that this time the VP canidate is far more popular than the presidential canidate. How she does matters, both for ill and for good. Today it was good.
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from my own gathering she came off as not ready for the big leagues. She even said hi to her father in the audience and it that doesnt come off as winning an award or soemting not trying to be VP i dont kno what does.
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Today, America's largest Chevy dealer - 17 dealerships - closed its doors due to the credit crunch. 2,700 unemployed just like that.
Magnify that by the number of businesses across the country.
Magnify that by the domino effect of massive business shutdowns. This is for real.
$700 Billion? Spend it. Then when Obama gets into office, tax it right back out of the wealthy and the tax-evading corporations. -
you must be watching fox news because so far every other news channel has shown polls in favor of Biden. Now this is the same fox news that said most people thought Mcain won the first debate and then two days later said most people thought Obama won the debate.
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Really? You're surprised that a politician has selective memory? Because McCain never lies? He is the biggest flip-flopping lier since John Kerry.
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"She will go home tonight and beast fuck Todd. She's gonna beat his ass and rip that dude's dick right off."
Thank you for supplying some of the laughs I missed during the debate ... -
Why do you keep saying that "everyone thinks Palin won the debate", when every single poll I have seen says the opposite? Wishful thinking?
Do you want McCain to win this election just so the stock market goes up? What does that accomplish. You do know that no economist gauges the health of the economy based on the DJIA. They factor in a lot of different things like inflation, unemployment levels, consumer confidence, bankruptcies and foreclosures.... -
If you go to factcheck.org you'll see that both candidates spewed out an equal number of exaggerations, distortions and--yes--lies. Don't even try to state that lying is the sole purview of the dems. Welcome to politics, son.
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Yay.
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I hate to make fun of one of the talkbackers that is on my side here, but when you say "I counted 10 Biden lies", no you didn't- please. Immediately after the debate Carl Rove said that HE counted 10 Biden lies. That seems like a pretty incredible coincidence that you were just as aware as Carl Rove. There was simply no one in the country as far as I am concerned who understood the debate better than Carl Rove (except for Dick Morris perhaps), and I was very curious what he thought about it. He counted 10 lies, not you- you just are parroting what Carl Rove said. Sorry to call you on this one- I know we are on the same side and all, but it makes you sound like a creep.
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Oct 02, 2008 11:29:21 PM CDT
To claim Palin victory because it wan't a bloodbath
by thunderbolt ross
is pretty much admitting she's inadequate.
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And Palin wasn't really under scrutiny or hard questioning in this debate. Nor was Biden. They BOTH went after the top dogs.
Biden could have destroyed her several times but that wasn't the gameplan. As he clearly feared after all the whining about SEXISM! against the Pitbull it might backfire as well as distracting from the main players of McCain and Obama.
If Biden was TRULY debating Palin she would have been in real trouble likewise the likes of Hillary would have reduced her to a quivering mess.
Regardless, She certainly can't Campaign without speaking to reporters or she will get less and less coverage from here on in. It's up to the McCqain Campaign do they risk "freeing Palin" as Romney and others are urging ? Or do they stick her in the box to appear at rallies ?
Campaigning you will have a very limited impact unless you play the Media game and give them interviews. Which is why Biden gives so many interviews even if he does occasionally gaffe. -
is a piece of shit. I thought everyone knew that?
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Who cares, he knows what he is talking about
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Ouch!
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Are you serious? An economic tsunami is fucking them up daily already, and they're worried about the next administration? Uhhh, no. Trust me, the market is reacting to an economic disaster, not a potential Obama/Biden White House. Seriously, think about what is going on right now. BTW there's no guarantee the bill is gonna pass so the market will be skittish until it is signed sealed and delivered. And even then there is still a lot of shit to sort out. We merely will have taken steps to avoid a crisis turning into armageddon.
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Jeeeeeesus Christ. And here's one you'll like Caughlins Lies.
Also ALSO, also, also, also, ALSO, ALSO. Also... Also, Also Also. Also, Also, Also, Also, Also, Also, Also, Also, ALSO, also. -
Regarding Andrew Sullivan, here is a DIRECT QUOTE from his live-blog of the debate:"10.30 pm. Biden's sobriety and authority and call for fundamental change is both reasonable and solid. It will resonate, I think. As you can read, I began this debate feeling that she was steam-rolling him. She was. But it was a steam-roller coming at you on fumes, not real fuel. She doesn't have it. Maybe one day she might. But not now. Biden's peroration was very, very strong. There is no contest here. There was only one loser: Gewn Ifill. She was intimidated, peripheral, neutered. The rules didn't help. But Ifill put in a dreadful performance.10.29 pm. She's just whirring now. Attacking the mainstream media - I think that means she will refuse to have a press conference before the vote. If that happens, it will be the biggest surrender of the press in this country's modern history. She survived tonight as I suspected by a blizzard of soundbites and folksy populism. But people have to see through this, no?10.23 pm. I'm changing my mind about this debate. Biden is now cleaning up. He's particularly powerful in bringing the conversation back to the anxieties of middle class Americans. He was thrown off-guard at the start, as I was. But in trying to figure out who you can trust to lead in these troubled times, I think he has now won this debate.10.22 pm. Biden's answer about his kids, the moment when he clearly choked up, was emotionally very powerful. I expect it will resonate more with women.10.18 pm. Biden's response on Cheney and the constitution was devastating. His authority against her chatter really told. And that is what is slowly happening in this debate. She started by dazzling people with sheer velocity and energy and gimmicks. But as the debate goes on, her cutesy soundbites actually begin to unnerve. And his authority comes through. This is now a tie, as Biden is gaining fast in the closing stretch. Classic tortoise and hare.10.17 pm. The unraveling on the veep constitutional role continues. Oy.10.12 pm. "Doggone it." "Say it ain't so, Joe." "God bless her." A shout out to her home town school. A total ramble of nothing on education. Total ramble. She has begun to unravel once substance is actually required.
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Sorry - couldn't help myself ...
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Nobody is claiming victory because it wasn't a bloodbath. I'm claiming victory because it was a victory. She presented her case better than Biden. She came across better than Biden. She defended almost every one of her positions, and I don't think he was able to do the same. When she said that raising taxes would reduce jobs, and more than once she said that simply and CLEARLY, why did Biden NEVER retort on that? Because he doesn't have the facts to back it up. His only response on that EVER was that it was an issue of "fairness". To him it is more important that everyone plays fair than that more people have actual jobs. She won that debate, and he had nothing to say about that.
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You're spilling Kool-Aid all over the place! Be more careful I almost slipped!
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The Bosniaks or Bosniacs (Bosnian: Bošnjaci, ) are a South Slavic people, living mainly in Bosnia and Herzegovina ("Bosnia") and the Sandžak
Bosnia and Herzegovina - The country is home to three ethnic "constituent peoples": Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats. Regardless of ethnicity, a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina is often identified in English as a Bosnian.
Duuuuhhhhhh!!!!! How stupid do you feel now Caughlin ? -
"KKKarl Rove?", don't worry, that reminds me of something one of Barack Obama's friends said about the people of america. Half of the country didn't care then, half won't care now.
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He's resorting to making shit up. Kind of like McCain-Palin.
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"Where was the BLOOD BATH?" you said. Sounded to me like you were crowing about there not being one. Like, "yeah she didn't fall on her face! We won!" Anyway if you really believe she did a good job and not just a good enough job to get her out of the trough SHE created with her amazingly bad interview performances, that's tough to believe. But it's tough to believe anyone in their right mind who supported the ticket wouldn't be lamenting her presence on it. She. Is. A. Joke.
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What did this "friend" say about the "people of America" exactly. And by me reminding you of it, do you mean this friend made an obvious joke and immediately followed by apologizing for the inherent lameness of the joke? Cause I can't figure out who it is, if so.
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If the market is only reacting to the crisis then why was there not a gain today? Wall Street is seemingly about to get what they want. The bailout passed in the Senate 75 to 25, and yet the dow falls. They are dealing with two economic crisis, and the other is Obama's strong polling numbers. I think I was pretty damn clear when I said "Where was the BLOOD BATH?" Clearly I meant that I thought she won- if you don't believe me, I will say it again - she won.
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The dropping Dow Jones has absolutely FUCKING NOTHING to do with Obama and EVERYTHING to do with the Bailout Bill.
Half of Wall Street isn't even sure that it will do much good and the other half isn't even sure it will pass. Hence UNCERTAINTY. Hence plunging stock markets.
A Recession is here and has been for a while. It's whether it will be a quick(ish) V shaped Recession lasting a couple of years or an L shaped Recession and stagnation like Japan experienced with Zombie Banks and almost no growth for 10 years. -
Oct 02, 2008 11:56:42 PM CDT
BRAND NEW: PALIN SAYS CHENEY WORST MISTAKE: DUCK HUNTING
by bringingsexyback
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4496829n
Now we get the real Sarah Palin back. -
you can't be serious. I truly hope you know who I am talking about. He's the guy you have been pretending doesn't exist for the last several months. I guess you forgot who I am talking about because you did such a good job denying his existance. Liberal denial is amazing.
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Moderator: *insert economic question*
Palin: *insert random soundbite about something other than economy*
Seriously, why didn't they just let her give a speech if she doesn't know enough about the country to do a debate? She clearly doesn't have a clue unless someone forces her to memorize a canned answer. If she doesn't have a canned answer prepped for the question, she goes ahead and talks about whatever else is on her mind! LOL! VP material? Are you kidding? -
well you are probably more right than wrong. But uncertainty presents itself powerfully in what Biden described tonight as "the most important election of our lifetime"- he may be right. How about a little test. Tommorow if the Dow starts higher than it left off- admit I might be somewhat right, if it starts the same or lower, then I will rethink my logic.
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October 2, 2008
The consensus from the debate seems to be that while Sarah Palin exceeded the exceedingly low expectations set for her, Joe Biden won the night. The word comes from former members of the Bush administration and even John McCain's former press secretary.
Torie Clarke, who worked with McCain back in Arizona and with the Bush Administration's Department of Defense, had the following remarks on ABC:
"I'm so surprised at what we are talking about before and after the debate. Before the debate the speculation was all on Sarah Palin, how well can she do, can she answer the tough questions? Nobody was paying attention to Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden had his best night tonight. He came with one mission, and that was to go after John McCain, and he did it, backed up by facts. I think he did a better job tonight of tying McCain to the Bush administration than Obama did last week.
Matthew Dowd, who worked for George Bush's communications team while in the White House, followed Clarke and he too agreed that the Delaware Democrat took the evening.
"I think, you know, I agree with her on this. I think Sarah Palin did reasonably well. The death spiral she has been on for the last week, she survived. She's lived another day. She did well. But I think, when the polls come out in the next two, three days, Joe Biden won this debate."
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just might show how racist are country actually is. The race card is going to end up becoming a big issue when it comes down to actual voting day. At the end of the day hate is a bigger reason for more people to vote than economics or politics
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And you were among those who were adamantly claiming this crisis was clearly republicans fault. I have been hearing left and right that this was largely democrats fault on part of democrat urging for "homes for everybody" during the clinton years, and recently because of Christopher Cox and Barney Frank. Are all these analysts just wrong that it was their fault? When we were talking about all this before, you never mentioned this stuff. I was the only one saying it seemed like it was democrats fault.
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..trust anyone with fake hair. Call me shallow, but it's true. I don't like Palin either. Fuck!!!!! What am I going to do? Not vote? Nah. I guess I'm goin' with the Big Bird/Carrot Top ticket on Nov. 4th.
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jeezus, she said "also" atleast 1000 times...also..up there..also..blah...blah
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If it DOES pass the Dow will respond positively. If it DOESN'T and the House headcount necessitates a delay in presenting the Bill and more horsetrading the Dow will head south.
Most in Wall Street still think SOMETHING will be passed (which is why it hasn't been plummeting like it did after the Monday 777 fall) but the Markets have rarely been more panicky and trust me Obamas position in the polls means diddly squat to these guys as HUGE Banks and Institutions continue to feel incredible financial pressure and more WILL fall. -
True. But let's see how the Dow starts tommorow morning- then you can call me a moron.
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BSB, I love your statement: "She enthusiastically supported aerial killing of defenseless wolves." First, what she supported was the thinning of wolves to protect other animal populations which, fine, is a whole other debate. I'm not sure, but I gather you're against hunting or something. But what I love is your choice of words. Seriously, what the hell are "defenseless wolves"? What, to make things more even do you think the wolves should be given firearms all their own?BSB (as Dr Evil): "You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have wolves with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!"
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Fannie Mae Pledges Continued Support for President Bush's Nationwide Effort to Increase Minority Homeownership
Business Wire, Oct 15, 2002
Fannie Mae Chairman and CEO, Franklin D. Raines today joined President Bush and U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Secretary Mel Martinez, and other industry leaders and non-profit organizations, for a housing summit to promote the Administration's proposal to expand minority homeownership.
Fannie Mae's ten-point plan to help advance the Bush Administration's homeownership proposals was included in the Blueprint for the American Dream document released by HUD today.
"Fannie Mae commends President Bush and HUD's continued efforts to make minority homeownership a national priority through today's housing summit," said Raines. "As we know, homeownership builds stronger families, communities, and improves our quality of life. Through the expansion of minority homeownership, the Administration will advance housing equality in America."
"The Blueprint for the American Dream that we unveiled today is the response to the `homeownership challenge' President Bush issued in June to increase minority homeownership," said HUD Secretary Mel Martinez. "Our partners, representing every segment of the affordable housing industry, are committed to working together to achieve the President's goal of adding 5.5 million new minority homeowners by the end of the decade." article http://tinyurl.com/4oqxjx
This clusterfuck is way, WAY beyond some fruity conspiracy involving the fraction of mortgage forecloseres that the C.R.A were responible for.
So can we PLEASE drop the far-right talking points about it somehow being Clinton or fucking Frank or Carter or anyone else. It's 100% HORSESHIT. -
Where Sarah Palin was able to fire back or discredit ANY of Biden's claims against John McCain? She just wasn't. Biden clearly knows more about McCain record the she does. She simply replied everytime, "well...he's maverick, he's a reformer darnit, and I'm just gosh derned hockey mom" or gave some other CANNED answer.
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has decided the bailout won't be enough to turn things around sufficiently. Or maybe not - maybe it's Obama's economic policies that are freaking them out, not a crippled credit market. Where do you live for god's sake? Do you have any clue what is going on here?And now that you mention it I DO rember the FRIGHTENING Rev. Wright making silly jokes about the American people and acknowledging how silly the jokes were. Sitting there laughing, spelling people's names wrong. Yes that was just like what I did! I'm just like Rev. Wright, the Islamo-Christian hater of the American people, and corny pun-maker. It's because I'm a liberal, of course. How could I NOT be a liberal if I'm not voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. It's not like I'm an independent who once saw McCain as a legitimate presidential option or anything. And who would know these things better than you, a stranger on a movie website message board. Please, make some more assumptions. I have to go to sleep so it's all you, buddy.
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Joe Biden, no question. Sarah Palin went out of her way to talk around questions.
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"the market has decided ..." etc
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THAT is the crucial point Wall Street is waiting for and at the moment the only Politics they give a Fuck about are the headcounts for and against the Bill passing.
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that Palin looked like she was reading off of a teleprompter. Biden seemed natural with his movements which is crucial in coming off as accesible to the audience. The next debate will be interesting when they can actually rebuke each other
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that's part of the mcdonald's tirade. i bet he also starts fires and wets the bed.
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To sum up a Palin supporters take on things: "If you don't think much of my halfwit VP candidate, you must be LIBERAL" ... ha tell that to David Brooks ... hell even Charles Krauthammer.
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The market may rally a bit if the bill goes through, but I seriously doubt it's going to go crazy or anything. It's these people's business - literally - to try and figure out where things are going and a LOT of them have pretty much written off this fourth quarter, as of right now, even with the bailout.
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race i going to be a huge issue. i always personally thought before the scandal john edwards would of been a great vp candidate to help obama in the south to counter the racism he is gonna deal with. But in to get your opinion too i think chances are people who are racist against blacks probably are gonna have some prejudice against women too
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1.Answer questions DIRECTLY
2.CHALLENGE opponents answers
Sarah Palin did neither. -
this debate wasnt like that not to defend Palin but they werent actually allowed to directly rebuff the other debaters statement
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That bush article you gave me was educational. But it proves nothing more than that Bush is clearly one of you guys. Does that houses for 5.5 million minorities sound like a plan created by democrats or by republicans? Seriously. Now I am not saying that Republicans are anti-minority, but it is the democrat position that poor minorities should have EVERYTHING that more rich people have. And so in these last few weeks we have seen the stunning revelation of what that kind but flawed attitude creates. It is simply not realistic, and republicans again and again are the realistic party, and democrats are the ones who live in fantasy land. We republicans have been saying for a long time that Bush is not one of us- you guys can have him. We are against his reckless spending, and when you show me articles like this- it only proves my point more. George Bush is one of you, do with him what you like. It seems we didn't realize it- and we may be getting yet another Republican who acts like a liberal with McCain- you might be right- it may be more of the same- more fiscal liberal. I am suprised you showed me that article as evidence of the chaos of todays mortgage world. Did you seriously not notice that the proposal there was a liberal style proposal? Do you know the difference between liberals and conservatives? That is not a conservative idea.
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If it passes though it will stop some of the worst bloodletting for at least a while.
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I agree, after the house votes on the bailout, the dow will be more effected than it will by this debate. But I still say this debate will have a positive effect on those numbers- noticably so.
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Sarah did both, you simply refused to notice. Amazing.
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Yes. they were. Each candidate was given two minutes for rebuttals. Were you not paying attn?
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And perhaps you can also persuade the Voters that the word Republican that appears next to McCain Palin on the Ballot isn't REALLY the same Republican Party that was so in Love with Bush in the early days and 2004.
OF COURSE he isn't your guy now. Imagine everyones surprise. Because all those Republicans who were defending his many clusterfucks have "mysteriously" melted away as his approval ratings plummeted and left only the most stubborn Loyal Bushies to complain that the Republican Party now treats him like a pariah. -
The fact that conservatives don't feel that there should be constant handouts such as houses and reperations to minorities is the very basis for why the conservatives are labeled as the more "racist" party. And really for no other reason. Again, that 5.5 million houses to minorities was a liberal proposal presented by liberal Republican George W.
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the article i read before the debate had stated that it wasnt allowed to rebuff i must have misunderstood the article.
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You just proved that he acted like a democrat- remember that article you just showed me? Does liberal or conservative mean anything to you? They are distinctly different political philosophies. It does not matter what party a politician belongs to- if he follows the other sides political philosophy, that is who he is. Bush spends like a democrat and everyone knows it- he is therefore LIBERAL. Get it through your head- it is so incredibly simple. It's like if I go sign up to be a cop, and then I go around taking bribes and helping drug dealers- I would then not be an agent of the law, I would be a criminal. It doesn't matter if I am wearing a badge, it matters what I do. Same thing with Bush. He spends like a liberal, creates proposals like that HUD home thing which helps lead to this housing crisis- he is a liberal.
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Jesus Christ Samus, stop the wriggling, squirming, dodging and spinning. It's laughable.
Man up. Bush WAS and IS a Republican. End of Fucking story. -
"And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also." -Sarah PalinThe moderator would ask question X, and she would answer Y.There's was one point in the debate where Biden was asked about the subprime mortgage crisis to which Biden gave a lengthy answer and Palin's rebuttal was about her energy policy plan! Absolutely nothing to do with the question! READ THE TRANSCRIPT! It's all there.
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Right he is a republican- A LIBERAL republican. You stop squirming. Admit that political philosophies are how you behave.
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she was still laughable. Actually saying she wasn't going to answer the question the way they want her to, but she'll 'talk straight to the American people.' Um, wouldn't talking straight entail answering the fucking question? I just can't believe how she replaced the questions with her own agenda, while Biden made clear, pointed arguments, and provided information. And didja notice how she kicked her accent and 'folksiness' up a notch as soon as Biden mentioned his middle class roots? Such a fake. Biden clearly wiped the floor with her. But because she didn't completely fall over herself, she survived another day. Pathetic.
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Hell, I'll watch it again tommorow and see if there is even any substance to what you are saying. I distinctly remember her challenging her opponant many times, and I remember her directly answering questions many times.
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Stop squirming and tell me what political philosophy that proposal falls under. Just say which one?
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You always talk like you know so much, but you don't even seem to know the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals- you can't even tell me which political philosophy that proposal falls under.
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Oct 03, 2008 1:08:57 AM CDT
StuckInThePresentPaused, race will obviously play a big part...
by big dumb ape
Look, it goes without saying that with the nation facing the choice of electing it's first Black President that everyone will be looking at race as a determining factor. In the end, I'm sure there will be some that are going to vote against Obama just because of race -- and that's a shame. Obviously the ONLY determining factor should be the positions held by each candidate. Judge the two men for what they stand for, not their skin color.Of course that said, on the other end of the scale, I totally hate the bullshit argument that somehow if I DON'T vote for Obama that I must secretly be a racist, as if the ONLY reason that I'm voting against him is because of his skin. That's just as equally fucked up. And I say screw that. I'm voting against him because I think he's a slick talking, empty suit, used car salesman. He's an old style ultra Liberal, the Left just dressed it up better this time around.But as for Race and how it will affect things, the other week there was that eye-opening AP/Yahoo story that talked about a study, which revealed a high percentage of Democrats who said that once they get into the privacy of a voting booth that they'll secretly vote for McCain because they DON'T like the fact that Obama is black. So it will be interesting to see. Will Obama win? Will it be close? Will it be a landslide? Or will McCain win with the exit polls revealing there really WAS a major scale Bradley Polling Effect at work the entire time? I think we're all going to learn A LOT about the state of race relations in the U.S. on election night.But I will say this: that Bradley Effect is for real, even right here in ultra liberal Hollywood. A friend of mine went to a Democratic Hollywood Hills fundraiser the other week, your typical party thrown at some guy's home. My friend is a diehard Republican, but he thought it would be fun to go, basically because he was told there'd be a lot of hot girls there (which frankly is always a good reason to attend a Hollywood party!) The shocking thing for him: on the surface, as expected, everyone was singing praises to Obama and towing the party line... everyone was pulling out their wallets and giving their expected contributions... but as the night went on and he'd talk to people (and they clearly got a bit more drunk and loose lipped), he was stunned by how many of the guests said they WEREN'T going to vote for Obama on election day. By his estimate...much like the AP story indicated...he said about a full quarter of the people at the party were privately saying, "Hey, I don't mind coughing up some money or saying things to look good, but there's no way in hell I'm pulling the lever for THAT guy."So, it'll be fascinating to see what happens on election day, although it'll also be incredibly hard to tell how much race really played a part since people talking to exit pollsters will obviously duck the entire issue by saying "Well, in the end, I just thought McCain would be better on the economy (or the military or whatever)." I mean let's be brutally honest: how many people are SERIOUSLY going to say to an exit pollster: "Yeah, I just couldn't bring myself to vote for a black guy."So, everyone will just have to read into the results and determine for themselves how much Race was an issue. If Obama loses, you can bet we'll hear no end of it. Hell, Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann will pontificate for years. And even if Obama wins in a close one, we're STILL going to be force fed entire lectures on race by the media. So, get ready for it no matter what...
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And Palin schooled Kissinger in Foreign Policy and the fundementals of the Economy are strong.
Meanwhile the moon is made of cheese and dogshit has magical healing properties. Wakey, Wakey Samus. -
I definitely agree with your statement except ofr the not voting for Obama part. My problem is with the system itself. If i go vote i will vote for obama though i havent decided if im going to spend my time on election day going to a facility for one simple reason: the electoral college. I'm from new york and whether i vote or not doesnt matter because the state is going to vote democratic theres no way new york is not gonna vote democratic. When i graduated college a year ago i wrote a thesis on presidential vs parliamentary system of government and i dont want to make too long of a statement but parliamanetary governemt is just a bettter system than a presidential system especially with the electoral college which basically means your actually vote means nothing since the electoral college doesnt really have to vote the way popular vote turns out though obviously they usually do
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Let me give you a quiz on liberals vs. conservatives. Politician "X" wants to outlaw the day after pill - answer: conservative another one, more tricky: Politician "A" wants to make harsher penalties for people walking their dog without a leash - answer: liberal Politician "N" wants to extend the sentance for child molesters - answer: conservative See how easy these are? Another one: Politician "Q" wants to allow more controversial forms of interrogation on terrorist prisonors -answer: conservative that was an easy one Politician "U" wants to outlaw smoking in designated smoking areas -answer: liberal And finally: Politican "E" proposes a plan that will dramatically reduce the underwriting standards for home loans to allow more minority home ownership - Answer: liberal of course See how easy and fun that was? how many did you get right?
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I bet you got the terrorist interogation one right, and the day after pill one rigth- the rest I bet you got wrong. Probably because you don't understand your own party.
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Politician "F" wants to make a mandatory $40 fine for drivers not wearing their seatbelts because Politician "F" is uber excited about pushing rules and fines on law abiding citizens - answer: liberal Politician "U" wants to free a murderer and the founder of a major street gang back into the public because society made him do it in the first place -answer: liberal Do you understand your party better now?
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*Yawn* By all means keep trying and wriggling, if nothing else it's amusing, but the simple fact is Home Ownership has been suported by Democrats and Republicans for DECADES.
Just because it's uncomfortable to admit it now doesn't mean it's not the truth.
It's simply not a purely Democrat Policy no matter how hard you try to ignore the fact that Bush did it and did it with the SUPPORT of the Republican Party or it wouldn't have got off the drawing board.
Likewise Reagan here shows us how he viewed a home & property owning society and shows us that it stretches way, WAY back in time.
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN
From Speech Presented at the White House August 3, 1987?
PROJECT ECONOMIC JUSTICE
"I've long believed one of the mainsprings of our own liberty has been the widespread ownership of property among our people and the expectation that anyone's child, even from the humblest of families, could grow up to own a business or corporation."
"Thomas Jefferson dreamed of a land of small farmers, of shop owners and merchants. Abraham Lincoln signed into law the "Homestead Act" that ensured that the great western prairies of America would be the realm of independent, property-owning citizens-a mightier guarantee of freedom is difficult to imagine." -
Doesn't exactly bolster your argument that you said this "I have been hearing left and right that this was largely democrats fault on part of democrat urging for "homes for everybody" during the clinton years, and recently because of Christopher Cox and Barney Frank." And then when it was pointed out that Bush did the SAME you splutter and misdirect with, well he's not a Republican or he's not a REAL Republican. Yeah, Riiiiiiight. Not trying to dodge the issue at all.
I doubt anyone else will be QUITE so stupid as to miss the motives for your turning on Bush. And "hearing left and right" about this for "years" somehow didn't prepare you for the fact that Bush did it with the support of the Republicans.
But please, do go on. -
I don't know what exactly happened, but I am hearing a lot about this being democrats fault, and there are very specific explanations of why that I have only half been paying attention to, I admit. But the point is, there is a vigorous argument being made against the democrats most notably Chris Cox and Barney Frank, and the liberal argument that it is republicans fault lies only on the fact that Bush has been president for the last 8 years. And you obviously realize that the proposal that you showed me was a liberal proposal- otherwise you would have made an argument of it being a conservative proposal. I am not arguing Republicans vs. Democrats, they can both go to hell. I am arguing conservativism vs. liberalism.
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Promoting home ownership is not what this is about. Promoting Home ownership for EVERYONE no matter what their financial situation IS.
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WKUK Getting high with Dinosaurs. The Palin Damon Theme Song!
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When you present that quote from Ronald Reagan, you show me how you are missing the point. Ronald Reagan in that quote is verbalizing the very core beliefs of conservative values. He is expressing the very true idea that anyone from any background can work his or her way into a greater life and achieve among other accomplishments - home ownership. The liberal viewpoint takes this concept and twists it horribly- demanding that all people from any background should have their homes NOW!!! They should have their dreams given to them NOW!!!
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yes let's all listen to what Matt Damon has to say about how we elect our leaders. Everyone gather around Matt Damon- here is another celebrity who wants to open his mouth and let us asshole americans bask in his great wisdom and understanding. Let's ignore that Matt Damon is a self obsessed fancy boy who dedicated his formative years educating those around him as to the majesty of his awesomeness. Now that he is done and over his vanity it's time for us to learn what he learned during those years when everybody was telling him how great he was. He has SOOO much to teach us. Gather around everyone.
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Liberals look to celebrities like they are apostles embarking on great ministry. These religious icons represent all the core values liberals hold most dear. Celebrities follow a pattern (all of them it seems) of extreme selfishness followed by gross and horribly misguided mass repentance. The repentance of celebrities comes in the form of truly disgusting self righteousness which of course feeds back into their constant base selfish instincts. The back and forth roller coaster of brutal wickedness followed then by grotesque pentance is truly a disgusting constant display coming from hollywood. A message to all celebrities- Please stop repenting- it's disgusting.
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Is saying Governor Palin won the debate.
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what planet are you on? she wasn't an epic spectacle trainwreck, but she was awful. darn right doggone it soccer mom (wink)! really? i could respect supporting mccain, but i will never respect anyone for supporting palin. she's the worst.
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He did one hell of the job tonight. The man did great.
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Objectively, even though Palin didn't embarrass herself (too much), Biden absolutely obliterated her in the debate. Palin kept throwing out obviously rehearsed catch-phrases and incorrect, outdated statistics - she did well parroting back the things she was coached on, but she didn't understand the things she was saying and could not go into any detail whatsoever. She seemed way too rehearsed like she was coached intensely by McCain's senior advisors, and nervously repeated them. I didnt feel it was Palin talking, just acting. Biden actually made points and, agree or not, helped viewers understand his ticket's stance on the issues discussed.
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One is a Dem and the Other a Rep. Both are Running Conjoined for the Title. It's the next Logical Step, and both Parties can support them!
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I've said it before, but it's become even more apparant.
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i prefer our system but we still have the same problem. our country is divided into 'seats' and these seats have similar numbers of people but on average the right wing seats have fewer people. consequently in 98 the guy who won the popular vote did not become prime minister. really it is the same as your congress in which the same thing can occur. overall though i do think it works a little better here (australia)
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that's painfully obvious as well.
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Are you serious? You're going to talk about celebrities after having talked about how wonderful Reagan was? The Republican party has continuously put celebrities into seats. Somehow, if they are of your party they are just "regular folks." Give me a break. Get new talking points.
Bush was a conservative conservative. He was right of right. At the very least that is how he panders. I like how you try to tag him on to the liberals. You can keep your own dang mess, stop trying to spread it around. The worst part is some conservative hack trying to talk about responsibility and try to pin their stupid vote on liberals. You guys voted twice to put the idiot in charge. -
Palin is still a moron "Irregardless" if she was coached for over 3 days.Her as President (obviously Mac, ain't gonna survive his first term in office should he actually win.) would spell D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R!
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..to the list of Closet racists.
"Obama or yomomma"? Very creative.Asshole. -
http://tinyurl.com/6lsjty
http://tinyurl.com/2bujj6
http://tinyurl.com/4c22v6
Theres tons more, but thats just offa the top. So how does it feel to be so very, very pwned?
Hope you can adjust to a black man as President, btw, cause McSame is DONE. -
Oct 03, 2008 6:08:47 AM CDT
BUSH THE LIBERAL ... CALLING LIBERALS "THE ANGRY LEFT" AT THE RN
by bringingsexyback
Once Bush became a lame duck and became indefensible - not for lack of trying by wingnuts - they sought to label him a Liberal. Really, the level of political discourse in this country has been dragged into the sewer thanks to these people. Lord, make a way and give us a worthy Conservative to talk to once in a while. Make a way!
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Samus - I'm posting this to be fair, don't use it as propaganda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTkqosRiyYo -
SNL will surely use that.
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The word originally comes from a man who was a known swindler and cattle-thief. ...Hey, that starts to make sense to me now that I wrote it down.
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Cram it, you cliche-sucking robot. I'm as liberal as they come, but believe me, I don't look to rich movie stars for my ideas on how to handle being one of the "Working Class" - anymore than I expect a millionaire 30-year-term senator to "Feel My Pain". (And yes, before you pounce, that goes for ANY senatorial lifer, including Biden.)
Palin came off as a wind-up talking-points Barbie yet again, even sinking so low as to attempting to rip off famous lines from Reagan. And it bothered me, how Biden spoke to the moderator, but Palin always spoke into the camera, blinking frantically and constantly spouting her canned Down-Home-isms - "Dontcha Know", "You Betcha"; Biden debated her, she gave a rehearsed performance. Biden didn't NEED to crush her - he just gave her all the room she needed to expose the puppeteer's strings.
Saddest of all, the only time I detected a note of honest sincerity in Palin's voice was when she was defending her bigotry against gays that want to get married. That was the only moment of her entire evening that sounded like she truly felt what she was spouting. Pathetic doesn't begin to describe it.
And, for chrissake, doesn't ANYBODY else get that sick feeling in their gut when they watch the party of Billionaires try to foist off yet another backwater political hack as the Next Leader Of The Free World by playing up the "They're Jes' Reg'lar Folks" bullshit? Doesn't anybody remember how it turned out with their most RECENT winner that used that strategy? -
everytime she said that word, i kept thinking back to that awful mel gibson movie, and it made me want to punch someone in the throat.
she did better than I expected, but she still sidestepped alot of things. Guess shes learning to be a politician, but she's still got a LONG way to go. -
Do they get team jerseys to wear now?
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If the UK wasn't so far up the US's ass I'd be rooting for MCain/Palin purely from a comedy perspective. I was amazed at Bush's re-election and I am even more amazed that an idiot like Palin will be in with a chance of getting the top job! I can't believe that she got through this in one piece.
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It seems like the only people taking about the Bradly effect an the "darn shame" that race will play in this election. . . is you and other desperate conservatives. You see, that's the lat play. After the failure of McCain to convince Independants at the debate, the failure of Iraq to be a relevant issue, the failure of Palin to make a positive impact, the campaign suspension stunt, hell. . . even his legit philosophy about the role of govenment in private life and business . . . once all that fails and it becomes somewhat clear that Obama will win (a day like today), they have to stem the tide before it becomes a rout. At that last gasp, the only despicable strategy left by the Republicans is to hammer home his race. . . "He's Black!" It's an attempt to change confidence, a way to let your base know that they should go ahead and vote, because "you never know", there might still be alot of lying racists out there somewhere that make these poll numbers irrelevant. The "race" strategy is a combination of subtle psychology and brute ignorance, acutally a somewhat fascinatiing combination in itself, but ultimately irrelevant. You see, Americans may be a country of dumbasses, but unless your in some rural hillbilly locale, you'll find that for the most part, America is starting to move on. Your racist grandmother will be dead soon, and your color blind grandchildren will never consider race in their assessment of anyone. Racism is going away in this country, and I won't miss it. Everytime I hear this arguemnt now, I only see a barometer for abject desperation.
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That's when a conservative gets pissed and convinces himself that he is being judged as a racist because he is not voting for Obama. It's like watching a 4 year old spin themselves around until their incredibly dizzy, puke on their favorite shirt . . . and then blame the puke.
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damn that would make a cool drinking game.
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She may not be the most experienced politician, but she came across as far more normal of a human being than Biden's whiny typical liberal responses. Also, why did they let someone who wrote a book about why Obama should be president be the moderator of the debate? Thankfully, Palin held her own and whupped Biden's hairplugs into submission!
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She may not be the most experienced politician, but she came across as far more normal of a human being than Biden's whiny typical liberal responses. Also, why did they let someone who wrote a book about why Obama should be president be the moderator of the debate? Thankfully, Palin held her own and whupped Biden's hairplugs into submission!
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.....What exactly DOES FoxNews spume taste like, first thing in the morning? Is it actually better than, say, coffee, or raw sewage?
Admit it, son - you see Palin, and you see a Fuck Doll, don'tcha? The stratas of hair frosting, rouge, mascara, lipstick and control-top pantyhose piled onto Palin, and you're going after a 66-year-old man's hairplugs? You, my friend, are a cheap-ass rube punk. -
Why INDEED did the REPUBLICANS agree to her in advance? Why, Oh Why? Look to your own team for that answer, chump....
By the way, dummy - she's writing a book about the history of ALL black Americans in politics, not just Obama. And she's not writing that he SHOULD be president, just how he may be the logical progression of a grass-roots political movement.
Gitcher facts straight before you smear yer cheap-ass rube stupidity all over the net, ya crybaby. -
is on the BP payroll (a foreign oil company, at that).
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Smells like...... Victory.
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Well, you are a zpinn3r, I got ta hand it to ya, donchaknow. *headshake* *wink* The far normal human being in this country still can't find Iraq on a fucking map, ya know, so I guess she's got that going for her too *smile* *headshake*.
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Excellent post - especially the last paragraph. I too can not believe how often Amurricans get suckered by the Republicans into believing the 'folksy - he/she is one of us' candidates they foist every few years. Samus is so smitten he thinks Palin is just like him. I do not want Samus or anyone who is just like him as my President. Dems are not immune to that - remember Carter? But Repubs have had a lock on it since Reagan. But Reagan had a brain, and convictions (whether you agreed with his convictions is another matter). He also had common sense. Which GWB sorely lacks. Palin is such a lightweight, and she never answered the questions, but she very deftly turned each qustion back to energy policy. I shook my head with amusement and horror.
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but not in the slam dunking Biden kind of way. But in the "yeah i am a standard american that rose in Politics and know what i am doing even though I am hot" kind of way
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And she sure showed "humanity" when she followed up on Biden's heart-warming moment of reminiscence with another robotic ramble.
She stopped her own bleeding, but there's nothing "winning" about that. -
From Arianna:
"Watching the debate at a Fortune women's conference, I asked Meg Whitman, the co-chair of McCain's campaign, what she thought of Palin's performance. "Good enough," she said."
What a ringing endorsement ... zzzzzzzzzzz -
Still, she scares the bejebus outta me.
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http://tinyurl.com/vprikrol
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Only the dumbest of "Ameeericans" would fall for her fake "I'm just a smeeeall town seeeoccer mom." schtick. Honestly, her fake folksy coloquialisms are enough to make you puke. Could it be any more forced on her part? It was painfully obvious she practiced every one of them in the mirror so she wouldn't make herself puke. I'm from the Midwest, OK. We smell bullshit. This is reeking cow patty. The Republicans are done.
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once he started Bush isn't REALLY a Republican. Guess what dude. Six of the past eight years you've had Republicans in both houses of Congress and in the White House and the federal government has done nothing but grow, grow, grow. Republicans aren't "conservatives" anymore apparently.Unless you count the neocons who had the classically realistic conservative idea to invade a foreign country in one of the most volatile reagions in the world with the Pollyana-ish notion that we'd be greeted as liberators and heck pretty soon the whole middle east would be overflowing with freedom and democracy.This is why a guy like Ron Paul gets traction. The conservative movement of the 90s is dead. The neoconservative movement is a disaster. The Republican Party is without a coherent message and something needs to change. Just not how you categorize Bush. Go ahead and call him liberal if you want but he was the toast of the entire Republican Party until pretty recently. Maybe you should join the Libertarians.
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It may just be my loathing of shallow-minded, silly women, but I think Governor Palin is physically repulsive. Her face looks like Harry Truman's. Ugh. Knock yourself out with those disgusting Paling fantasies, guys... You can "have" her.
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What an incredible douchebag and miserable fuck you must be in real life. For the record, in terms of trying to call me a racist for simply responding to a previous post, let me re-post exactly what I said...QUOTE: "In the end, I'm sure there will be some that are going to vote against Obama just because of race -- and that's a shame. Obviously the ONLY determining factor should be the positions held by each candidate. Judge the two men for what they stand for, not their skin color. Of course that said, on the other end of the scale, I totally hate the bullshit argument that somehow if I DON'T vote for Obama that I must secretly be a racist, as if the ONLY reason that I'm voting against him is because of his skin. That's just as equally fucked up."Frankly, I think that's about as well-reasoned and balanced and fair as you can possibly get. And for the record, ass-wipe, I didn't write the AP/Yahoo news article and I certainly didn't stage the tests that they ran which showed a solid percentage of voters were displaying racist feelings. Like I said, I was simply agreeing with a previous post that there was no denying that race would be a factor in this. Hell, even the most diehard Leftist commentators are now wondering aloud, as we get closer and closer to election day, what effect race will play. It's simply a topic to examine, no different than any others.But hey, in your morally superior and self-serving way, I'm sure you've decided who is and who isn't racist just because they're open to addressing the topic intelligently versus a total butt crack like you who claims to not believe in racism, and yet who likewise can't hold a calm and intelligent discussion on the topic without throwing a temper tantrum.Way to go, Wereplatypus. From your political posts, we already knew you were an intolerant fuck, we just weren't sure if you were a solid 10 on the scale. Nice to know you're actually a 14.
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Oct 03, 2008 9:31:35 AM CDT
Palin ignored half the questions & was vague on the other half
by spyguy
But wasn't it cute how kept winking at us and charmed us with her folskie, Joe Six-Pack, Washington outsider, maverick way? Oh, and she even pronounces the word nuclear as "nuke-you-lure" just like Bush! How adorable!
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Well you totally made my point for me when you said republicans aren't conservative anymore. Keep going. And I think I can agree with pretty much everything you just said. I can admit to the foibles of my party.
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(((rips out hair)))
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I posted this yesterday.Like it or not, quite a few people vote based on 'who they like' not who they think is smarter or best for job. It becomes doubly difficult for Obama, because when that curtain closes, people are going to be confronted with stark reality: 'Can I really vote for a Black man?' WP I do not think that BDA was being racist pointing out the so called Bradley effect, in fact I agree with him when he said it was a very balanced and reasoned approach. I do have other problems with his logic, but not on that issue.
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Rovian tactic #1. Distraction. Forget the message, forget the debate, go after the person. ((I am ignorant, intolerant, blah blah.)) Rovian tactic #2. Bluster. Pretend that your opponent has done exactly what you have done, and attacked your personally instead of attacking your position. ((You called me a racist, how dare you, blah, blah.)) Rovian tactic #3. Strawman. Claim a series of outlandish beliefs for your opponent, so you can refute them and "win" for your team. ((You don't believe in Racism, you're throwing a tantrum, blah blah)). I sorry Ape, but the race issue will not add +10 points to McCain's team. . . it's a way to stem the tide, change the messaage, keep the base energized with some ray of hope. Let's call it. . . I dunno, Rovian tactic #425.
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.....At least when Palin crawls back out from under the mountain of subpoenas on her desk a year from now, back in good ol' Juneau, she'll still have that job offer from Fox News' Morning Show to mull over...
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Just as I predicted. Are you people seeing this? They are responding to a good performance by Palin.
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"We shouldn't be looking back" will be the new talking point buzz-phrase for Fox and the Republicans that will be used to shirk any responsibility for the current administration and it's fuckups. To be repeated ad nauseum until November. Exactly like how the phrase "blame game" was used to try and divert the public's attention from the Katrina fuck-up.
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Sorry Toadkillerdog, that's what happened. Reread my post as well. This conversation is about spin, nothing more. I certainly believe that Racism exists (for the moment), but there is no possibility that race will add +10 for McCain in 2008. Again, this is just a controlled message to keep the base focused and to keep some element of "drama" in an election that is pretty much over.
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The Dow is responding to Palin's performance?! I'd say it's probably more of what Wall Street insiders call, "A Dead Cat Bounce".
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I agree with you. I have no idea what shocks me more, that you wrote a fair and balanced post, or that I agree with what you said. I hope this is not a sign of the apokalips!
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Palin and Biden trying to outdo each other on who loves Israel more. WTF???!!!
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In what way was she horrible? Becasue she didn't try to instigate a fistfight like Lehrer did?
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Rereading my post, I can see a misunderstanding. For that, I'm sorry. I wasn't implying you were a racist yourself for bringing this up.
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Nice try at Spin Control there, Bunky.
Actually, it was a wetted-pants, lame-ass attempt at spin, but what the hell.
Yeah, the debate matters, son - because if last night's pathetic Palin performance pushes the fence-sitters over to the Obama/Biden camp, ensuring their election, then the debate FUCKING MATTERED.
Your "Can't-Win-'Em-All" attitude is a marked contrast to your "She's-Gonna-KILL'IM!! YAAAYYY, BLOODSHED!!!" attitude from a few days ago. That may work to console yourself, but please - learn about dignity. You just make the rest of us laugh. -
Quote: "I don't believe that Obama or Biden or McCain or Palin will do a damn thing to move our country forward and help America prosper."You are depressing. But that's OK - I know you LOVE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!!
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Oct 03, 2008 9:56:39 AM CDT
anchorite - damn it, just when I thought you were capable
by toadkillerdog
Of being a decent human being, you turn into a platypus dick with that Gwen Ifill comment. No, she was not sharp last night, but she was no horrible either, and she has been very good in the past. But even if she really was horrible, that affirmative action remark just shows the racist piece of cow crap you really are. I will not be fooled again by you.
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Both candidates trying to gloss over their blatant disregard for equal rights by pointing out they don't support gay marriage.
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It made you long for the days when two windbags would get up and say things like "With all due respect Suh, your positions inmdicate that you are a horse's ass". God, whatever happened to politicians who are spontaneous or even, dare I say it, funny?
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fro mthe moment she opened her mouth. "I'm going to speak directly to the American people." Translation: "Fuck you and your questions Gwen. I've got my memorized canned speeches to recite."
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it must be true. Palin apparently thinks Scott McClellan is out lead General in Afghanistan. Shut the fuck up Coughlins. Palin's ability to recite memorized canned responses proved she's ready to be VP? Please. And know it wasn't a tie for anyone who's got half a brain. She didn't answer any questions and her fake folsky coloquialisms came off as forced and disingenuous. "Bosniac" was funny though.
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Oct 03, 2008 10:09:32 AM CDT
You have to ask yourself, since goverment is irrelevant....
by smerdyakov
and economics pretty much rules the world, which one of these people would be the most fun to have as President? You got two boring old white guys, and a black guy who comes off like your social studies teacher. I got to go with the crazy Republican bitch.
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SHE DIDN'T TIE. She held her ground - which, her being down by ten points, isn't exactly going to electrify the electorate.
As far as "Far Exceeding Expectations" - Well, maybe, insofar as I half expected her to start twitching, sparking from her nipples and collapse in a leaking pile, bleeding Revlon from her ears.... -
Oct 03, 2008 10:14:28 AM CDT
Yup, Coughlins Laws is definitely the most stupid poster here
by lost jarv
G100 knew what a bosniac is. Moron.
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Somebody please explain to me how you can be "Joe Six Pack" when your total family income is over $300,000.00 a year, you own two homes and an airplane?
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John McCain is pulling out of America, according to two unnamed Republicans, a stunning move a month away from Election Day that indicates the difficulty Republicans are having in finding blue states to put in play.
McCain will go off TV in America, stop dropping mail there and send most of his staff to more competitive countries, including Russia, England and France.
A McCain aide confirmed the move and chalked it up to America's Democratic tilt and the resources Obama had put in place there.
"It was always a long shot for us to win," said the aide.
McCain will now turn his attention to bolstering his defenses in England and France while putting more resources into Russia, Germany, Italy and the Virgin Islands, where there are more votes available.
Obama's campaign offered a muted response to McCain's decision to abandon America, only promising to keep it in the Democratic column.
"We will continue to fight for every vote in America, because middle class families there just cannot afford more of the same," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.
Republicans had been bullish on America, hopeful that McCain's past success in the country in the 2000 primary combined with voter dissatisfaction with the Democratic Congress and skepticism among blue-collar voters about Barack Obama could make it more competitive.
But recent polls have shown Obama extending what had been a small lead, with the economic crisis damaging an already sagging GOP brand in a nation whose economy is in tatters.
A McCain event planned for next week in America has been canceled.
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that you support Alcoholism in the American family! (thatwasanattemptathumorand Iwouldinnowayimplythat Palinactuallysupportsalcoholism orotherwisedisparagethefamiies thatsuffereverydayfromthisdisease)
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BWAAAA HAA HAA HAA HAAA!!!!Seriously though, bud--care to point me in the direction of ANY economist, regardless of skill level, that's also claiming that Palin's "good" performance last night has ANYthing to do with the stock market's performance today? Nice Post Hoc fallacy, guy.
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/newsquotes.asp. But when did truth matter when politics are discussed on the internet?
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Dude, the PR release for her book was reported on months ago. If the McCain camp had done their research (you know, like vetting their VP...), they would have known this. Bitching about her as moderator is classic Rove-style politics where you actually resort to attacking the moderator. And considering the rules and nature of the "debate", that's fucking pathetic.As for her performance, it was definitely hampered by the established rules. But I don't think she came with her A-game either. Perhaps she was a little woozy from her pain meds after her fall. Who knows.
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Oct 03, 2008 10:32:58 AM CDT
THE DOW IS UP BECAUSE I BOUGHT A VENTI INSTEAD OF A TALL
by bringingsexyback
I got mad butterfly effect yo!
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It's deeper than the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
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There are no actual quotes about Palin regarding creationism out there at all. Yet that's what people (like the idiot Damon) want to talk about. Why? Because they WANT her to believe that so their smug superiority can be legitimized. I actually voted Democrat in the last election, but the way liberals love to demonize anyone right of center has me so pissed off I can't imagine voting for Obama. McCain, unfortunately, isn't much better.
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Right, investors have ZERO concern over who is president. They don't give a damn about what happens to the capitol gains tax. How stupid of me to think that they would care about how their profits are taxed. McCain would keep the capitol gains tax where it is or might even lower it I believe- Obama has promised that he would DOUBLE the capitol gains tax. What kind of effect do you think that will have on investing?
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By "defenseless wolves" I was referring to Palin promoting, by cash bounty, the aerial shooting of wolves in the winter when they have no cover. They are shot from helicopters, in the back, left to die in cold, slow, painful agony.
Look see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQobIUE1zTU
Also I don't know if you caught my response in the other TB about Obama's bracelet retort to McCain, but Tracy Jopek, mother of the slain soldier, said she was "ecstatic" and "proud" of Obama's mention at last week's debate. -
because of a little something you may have heard of that some people are calling the "Bailout Bill." Seems that some folks on Wall Street are expecting the House to pass it today. Oh, sorry--that COULDN'T be the reason there's a financial bounce today. Oh, but that lil' charmer from Wasilla, Palin, did one heckuva good job last night, didn'tshe! I'll start buying up more stocks right-diddly-now 'cause our national mavericky hockey mom'll soon be throwin' punches in Washington for us Joe and Jodie six packs!Also, note: because I didn't comb my hair to the left today, it'll be a sunny day tomorrow. Just remember, fella: if it doesn't rain tomorrow, it's because of my grooming habits. Be seeing ya!
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Yeah, because a simple google search of the name "Gwen Ifill" wouldn't have turned up that she was writing a book. Nice try, though. What else did Michelle Malkin tell you to say, anchorite?
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Oct 03, 2008 10:44:13 AM CDT
SAMUS: YOUR IGNORANCE OF INVESTOR MOTIVES IS STAGGERING
by bringingsexyback
But to use your reasoning, the vast consensus of viewers and test groups, especially of Independents, was that Biden was the victor in the debate, and thus investors are reacting positively to an impending Obama/Biden win.
Do you like apples? I said, do you like apples? -
Then why in the HELL was it dropping all day yesterday even after it passed in the Senate 75 to 25? Don't talk like you think I dont know what is going on with the bailout. I am saying that lowering stocks was being affected by two things- the bailout problem and Barack Obamas strong polling numbers. Now that McCain should be gaining ground- investors are getting some hope back.
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Look it up.
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Oct 03, 2008 10:47:36 AM CDT
ANCHORITE - WHAT DID GWEN IFILL DO OR SAY LAST NIGHT
by bringingsexyback
that showed any sign of bias or personal preference?
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Keep flappin' those beautiful wings!
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Just looked it up on this wacky thing called "The Internet." You know, the voodoo magic thing beyond John McCain's comprehension.
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Palin's performance wasn't good enough to effect the race in any meaningful way (even assuming that Wall Street wants an economically clueless duo like McPalin in the White House which is very debatable). Face the solid facts: most people thought Palin lost to Biden last night--two to one for undecided voters. Even most folks who found her personally more likable than Biden still thought she was fucking clueless. Or do you think the CBS and CNN polls are rigged? If you do, I think having a rational discussion with you is clearly impossible. We're in a fucking economic crisis here. Voters don't want Miss Robot-PTA Fresh Faced Sunshine in the White House (and certainly not one frail, twisted dwarf heart away from the Presidency).
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My ignorance on EVERYTHING astounds you anyways. What the hell do I care what you think. My experience with you is that you seem to be an expert in every area of life. So it is no suprise to me that you are so knowledgable about stock investing. Sexy, when I need information on anything, can you make yourself available to educate me? If I have a friend like you in my corner I will be invincable.
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"I think that Gwen Ifill is a professional and I think she will do a totally objective job, because she is a highly respected professional. Does this help that if she has written a book that’s favorable to Sen. Obama? Probably not. But I have confidence that Gwen Ifill will do a professional job." That was on Fox news.So anchorite, if McCain didn't think it was a big deal, why do you?
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Well you better buy up some stock cuz I'm about to super-size my happy meal today!
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Right Wallstreet wants economic geniuses like Obama Lin Biden who are more concerned with "Fairness" than what will best help the economy. Their bleeding hearts are not going to help this financial problem.
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Seriously, ugh. The Ifill book was already announced before she was picked to moderate. Had McCain Campaign actually taken the time to check the backgrounds of the moderators they should have known. They probably did know and still agreed.
Bosniaks is actually a term for an ethnic group in Bosnia. They are Bosnian Muslims. You seriously need to step away from Fox News. -
Always glad to help!
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the Senate pass yesterday was almost unanimous. That was no surprise to Wall Street. The Senate did the same thing last week. Wall Street knew it. The REAL news today is that it looks like the House has the votes to pass the bill. Also, historically nearly every day on Wall Street that the Dow drops precipitously, bargain hunters go to work the very next day causing a temporary spike in stock buying. Bottom line: the premise of your argument (i.e., Palin won the debate last night) is flawed. Polling evidence, in fact, is pointing to the contrary. How do you reconcile this fact with your reality?
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Oct 03, 2008 10:56:40 AM CDT
ACTUALLY DOW JUMPED ON NEWS OF WAMU BUYING WACHOVIA
by bringingsexyback
without need for aid from the Fed. Straight up purchase for $19.1 Billion, a sign that banks can potentially get out of this crisis without a constant lifeline from the government.
But if Samus chooses to believe it was ... Sarah Palin ... that boosted the market, then let's let him enjoy his personal fantasy.
No harm, no foul. -
That theory that Obama puts forward seems as flawed to me as the very analogy itself- water does NOT flow up. But when water trickles down it eventually becomes slow wide river impossible to hold back.
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Not that anyone's really surprised...
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I'll pay attention over the next few days as to what people say about the debate. I think she won, I have been hearing everyone say she won- and when I hear Keith Olberman not trash on her, I really know she won. Over the next couple of days I will hear the whole story and then I can know for sure. And yes, polling numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. CBS would prefer to spin it that Biden won, and their polls might reflect that.
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Wall Street is more concerned with the passage of this bill than anything else right now. And whoever gets into the White House is going to have one fuck of a mess to try to clean up. Of course, we'll be in financial shit no matter who is elected for a long time to come. I'll write this very plainly: Palin lost the debate. I know it doesn't seem so to you. You're entitled to that opinion. But the evidence strongly suggests that you are in the minority. Thus, the rising stock market isn't responding to a Palin win. Case closed.
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Obama '08
Peace and Prosperity '09 -
Minor error. Point still stands brilliantly. Eat my ass.
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I think wall street still cares about MANY factors. And no when you stop talking that is not when the case is closed.
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Ya got me, pal! Ok, I was going on memory and was incorrect, but what the fuck does it matter if the bill passed in the Senate by a very large majority or an almost unanimous majority. The point wasn't that the Senate passed the bill unanimously--it was that for Wall Street it was a foregone conclusion that the Senate was going to pass it. You're little non sequitur attempted to redirect the discussion away from logic-based discourse to irrational name calling (e.g., "Hell, to Liberals, 13% is the majority" ). Nice try, buddy.
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Ok then. We'll close it at your stunning rejoinder, "I think wall street still cares about MANY factors." Will that work for you?
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I hope the feds don't come after us for insider trading...
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look, she was crap. She just didn't die on stage. The bar was set so fucking low that this is a resounding victory. Palin's performance did not make the stock market jump (where did that come from? talk about reaching), nor did it cause the sun to fucking shine on me today, and Samas, if you are lucky enough to get that sorely needed blowjob (shit, just pay for it- the world will be a nicer place for you and that's an acceptable free market solution) then this will not have been down to Palin not looking like a complete fucking retard.
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Apparently, you, like Palin, didn't understand that there were actually questions being asked. Biden's used the Bosnian conflict as a reason why we need to intervene on certain occasions, say when there is a mass genocide like in Darfur. No, you're a one man Fox News that stupidly gets his facts wrong and when you can't actually get a fact right, you just outright lie.
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I had to go to a dictionary to find what "rejoinder" means. Lo and behold I found legalese- how poetic coming from a liberal. And the pattern is just a continuation of your parties endless stream of politicians coming from a lawyer background. It just astounds me how so many people I know are lawyers and going to law school. How many fucking lawyers do we NEED? Lawyers Lawyers Lawyers EVERYWHERE- half of our country are lawyers- suing people and clogging up life- and they are ALL voting for Obama. My guess is that you are a lawyer as well. How fun and INTERESTING- what a fresh perspective you bring. Please shed your fresh light on this discussion- I want to hear more about what LAWYERS THINK. I am almost as interested to hear your GOD DAMN opinion as I am in hearing what celebrities think about MY PROBLEMS!!! Thank you lawyer for pissing me off and making me mad. I have a job where I have to be creative all day long, but you just stifled my creativity with that "REJOINDER" word- I have to spend the rest of the day trying to forget I know that word while I draw. YOU ASSHOLE!!! LAWYER!!!!!!
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Gays get up to. If they want to get married, then let them. Does it matter?
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Hispanics now outnumber Blacks in this country, bro. And there are certainly a lot more gays and people who believe in separation church and state than you seem to think there are.
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Isn't there an ambulance you should be chasing?
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I'm standing outside the XCEL ENERGY CENTER in St. Paul Minnesota Sarah Palin has just finished her speech to the Republican National Convention, accepting the party's nomination for vice president. If I hadn't quit my two-packs-a-day habit earlier this year, I'd be chain-smoking now. So the only thing left is to stand mute against the fit-for-a-cheap-dog-kennel crowd-control fencing you see everywhere at these idiotic conventions and gnaw on weird new feelings of shock and anarchist rage as one would a rawhide chew toy.
All around me, a million cops in their absurd post-9/11 space-combat get-ups stand guard as assholes in papier-mache puppet heads scramble around for one last moment of network face time before the coverage goes dark. Four-chinned delegates from places like Arkansas and Georgia are pouring joyously out the gates in search of bars where they can load up on Zombies and Scorpion Bowls and other "wild" drinks and extramaritally grope their turkey-necked female companions in bathroom stalls as part of the "unbelievable time" they will inevitably report to their pals back home. Only 21st-century Americans can pass through a metal detector six times in an hour and still think they're at a party.
The defining moment for me came shortly after Palin and her family stepped down from the stage to uproarious applause, looking happy enough to throw a whole library full of books into a sewer. In the crush to exit the stadium, a middle-aged woman wearing a cowboy hat, a red-white-and-blue shirt and an obvious eye job gushed to a male colleague they were both wearing badges identifying them as members of the Colorado delegation at the Xcel gates.
"She totally reminds me of my cousin!" the delegate screeched. "She's a real woman! The real thing!"
I stared at her open-mouthed. In that moment, the rank cynicism of the whole sorry deal was laid bare. Here's the thing about Americans. You can send their kids off by the thousands to get their balls blown off in foreign lands for no reason at all, saddle them with billions in debt year after congressional year while they spend their winters cheerfully watching game shows and football, pull the rug out from under their mortgages, and leave them living off their credit cards and their Wal-Mart salaries while you move their jobs to China and Bangalore.
And none of it matters, so long as you remember a few months before Election Day to offer them a two-bit caricature culled from some cutting-room-floor episode of Roseanne as part of your presidential ticket. And if she's a good enough likeness of a loudmouthed middle-American archetype, as Sarah Palin is, John Q. Public will drop his giant-size bag of Doritos in gratitude, wipe the Sizzlin' Picante dust from his lips and rush to the booth to vote for her. Not because it makes sense, or because it has a chance of improving his life or anyone else's, but simply because it appeals to the low-humming narcissism that substitutes for his personality, because the image on TV reminds him of the mean, brainless slob he sees in the mirror every morning.
Sarah Palin is a symbol of everything that is wrong with the modern United States. As a representative of our political system, she's a new low in reptilian villainy, the ultimate cynical masterwork of puppeteers like Karl Rove. But more than that, she is a horrifying symbol of how little we ask for in return for the total surrender of our political power.
Not only is Sarah Palin a fraud, she's the tawdriest, most half-assed fraud imaginable, 20 floors below the lowest common denominator, a character too dumb even for daytime TV -and this country is going to eat her up, cheering her every step of the way. All because most Americans no longer have the energy to do anything but lie back and allow ourselves to be jacked off by the calculating thieves who run this grasping consumer paradise we call a nation.
The Palin speech was a political masterpiece, one of the most ingenious pieces of electoral theater this country has ever seen. Never before has a single televised image turned a party's fortunes around faster.
Until the Alaska governor actually ascended to the podium that night, I was convinced that John McCain had made one of the all-time campaign season blunders, that he had acted impulsively and out of utter desperation in choosing a cross-eyed political neophyte just two years removed from running a town smaller than the bleacher section at Fenway Park. It even crossed my mind that there was an element of weirdly self-destructive pique in McCain's decision to cave in to his party's right-wing base in this fashion, that perhaps he was responding to being ordered by party elders away from a tepid, ideologically promiscuous hack like Joe Lieberman -- reportedly his real preference -- by picking the most obviously unqualified, doomed-to-fail joke of a Bible-thumping buffoon. As in: You want me to rally the base? Fine, I'll rally the base. Here, I'll choose this rifle-toting, serially pregnant moose killer who thinks God lobbies for oil pipelines. Happy now?
But watching Palin's speech, I had no doubt that I was witnessing a historic, iconic performance. The candidate sauntered to the lectern with the assurance of a sleepwalker - and immediately launched into a symphony of snorting and sneering remarks, taking time out in between the superior invective to present herself as just a humble gal with a beefcake husband and a brood of healthy, combat-ready spawn who just happened to be the innocent targets of a communist and probably also homosexual media conspiracy. It was a virtuoso performance. She appeared to be completely without shame and utterly full of shit, awing a room full of hardened reporters with her sickly sweet line about the high-school-flame-turned-hubby who, "five children later" is "still my guy." It was like watching Gidget address the Reichstag.
Within minutes, Palin had given TV audiences a character infinitely recognizable to virtually every American: the small-town girl with just enough looks and a defiantly incurious mind who thinks the PTA minutes are Holy Writ, and injustice means the woman next door owning a slightly nicer set of drapes or flatware. Or the governorship, as it were.
Right-wingers of the Bush-Rove ilk have had a tough time finding a human face to put on their failed, inhuman, mean-as-hell policies. But it was hard not to recognize the genius of wedding that faltering brand of institutionalized greed to the image of the suburban American supermom. It's the perfect cover, for there is almost nothing in the world meaner than this species of provincial tyrant. Palin herself burned this political symbiosis into the pages of history with her seminal crack about the "difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull: lipstick," blurring once and for all the lines between meanness on the grand political scale as understood by the Roves and Bushes of the world, and meanness of the small-town variety as understood by pretty much anyone who has ever sat around in his ranch-house den dreaming of a fourth plasma-screen TV or an extra set of KC HiLites for his truck, while some ghetto family a few miles away shares a husk of government cheese.
In her speech, Palin presented herself as a raging baby-making furnace of middle-class ambition next to whom the yuppies of the Obama set -who never want anything all that badly except maybe a few afternoons with someone else's wife, or a few kind words in The New York Times Book Review -- seem like weak, self-doubting celibates, the kind of people who certainly cannot be trusted to believe in the right God or to defend a nation. We're used to seeing such blatant cultural caricaturing in our politicians. But Sarah Palin is something new. She's all caricature. As the candidate of a party whose positions on individual issues are poll losers almost across the board, her shtick is not even designed to sell a line of policies. It's just designed to sell her. The thing was as much as admitted in the on-air gaffe by former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan, who was inadvertently caught saying on MSNBC that Palin wasn't the most qualified candidate, that the party "went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives."
The great insight of the Palin VP choice is that huge chunks of American voters no longer even demand that their candidates actually have policy positions; they simply consume them as media entertainment, rooting for or against them according to the reflexive prejudices of their demographic, as they would for reality-show contestants or sitcom characters. Hicks root for hicks, moms for moms, born-agains for born-agains. Sure, there was politics in the Palin speech, but it was all either silly lies or merely incidental fluffery buttressing the theatrical performance. A classic example of what was at work here came when Palin proudly introduced her Down syndrome baby, Trig, then stared into the camera and somberly promised parents of special-needs kids that they would "have a friend and advocate in the White House." This was about a half-hour before she raised her hands in triumph with McCain, a man who voted against increasing funding for special-needs education.
Palin's charge that "government is too big" and that Obama "wants to grow it" was similarly preposterous. Not only did her party just preside over the largest government expansion since LBJ, but Palin herself has been a typical Bush-era Republican, borrowing and spending beyond her means. Her great legacy as mayor of Wasilla was the construction of a $14.7 million hockey arena in a city with an annual budget of $20 million; Palin OK'd a bond issue for the project before the land had been secured, leading to a protracted legal mess that ultimately forced taxpayers to pay more than six times the original market price for property the city ended up having to seize from a private citizen using eminent domain. Better yet, Palin ended up paying for the fucking thing with a 25 percent increase in the city sales tax. But in her speech, of course, Palin presented herself as the enemy of tax increases, righteously bemoaning that "taxes are too high," and Obama "wants to raise them."
Palin hasn't been too worried about federal taxes as governor of a state that ranks number one in the nation in federal spending per resident ($13,950), even as it sits just 18th in federal taxes paid per resident ($5,434). That means all us taxpaying non-Alaskans spend $8,500 a year on each and every resident of Palin's paradise of rugged self-sufficiency. Not that this sworn enemy of taxes doesn't collect from her own: Alaska currently collects the most taxes per resident of any state in the nation.
The rest of Palin's speech was the same dog-whistle crap Republicans have been running on for decades. Palin's crack about a mayor being "like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities" testified to the Republicans' apparent belief that they can win elections till the end of time running against the Sixties. (They're probably right.) The incessant grousing about the media was likewise par for the course, red meat for those tens of millions of patriotic flag-waving Americans whose first instinct when things get rough is to whine like bitches and blame other people -reporters, the French, those ungrateful blacks soaking up tax money eating big prison meals, whomever -for their failures.
Add to this the usual lies about Democrats wanting to "forfeit" to our enemies abroad and coddle terrorists, and you had a very run-of-the-mill, almost boring Republican speech from a substance standpoint. What made it exceptional was its utter hypocrisy, its total disregard for reality, its absolute unrelation to the facts of our current political situation. After eight years of unprecedented corruption, incompetence, waste and greed, the party of Karl Rove understood that 50 million Americans would not demand solutions to any of these problems so long as they were given a new, new thing to beat their meat over.
Sarah Palin is that new, new thing, and in the end it won't matter that she's got an unmarried teenage kid with a bun in the oven. Of course, if the daughter of a black candidate like Barack Obama showed up at his convention with a five-month bump and some sideways-capwearing, junior-grade Curtis Jackson holding her hand, the defenders of Traditional Morality would be up in arms. But the thing about being in the realitymaking business is that you don't need to worry much about vetting; there are no facts in your candidate's bio that cannot be ignored or overcome.
One of the most amusing things about the Palin nomination has been the reaction of horrified progressives. The Internet has been buzzing at full volume as would-be defenders of san-ity and reason pore over the governor's record in search of the Damning Facts.
My own telephone began ringing off the hook with calls from ex-Alaskans and friends of Alaskans determined to help get the "truth" about Sarah Palin into the major media. Pretty much anyone with an Internet connection knows by now that Palin was originally for the "Bridge to Nowhere" before she opposed it (she actually endorsed the plan in her 2006 gubernatorial campaign), that even after the project was defeated she kept the money, that she didn't actually sell the Alaska governor's state luxury jet on eBay but instead sold it at a $600,000 loss to a campaign contributor (who is now seeking $50,000 in taxpayer money to pay maintenance costs).
Then there are the salacious tales of Palin's swinging-meat-cleaver management style, many of which seem to have a common thread: In addition to being ensconced in a messy ethics investigation over her firing of the chief of the Alaska state troopers (dismissed after refusing to sack her sister's ex-husband), Palin also reportedly fired a key campaign aide for having an affair with a friend's wife. More ominously, as mayor of Wasilla, Palin tried to fire the town librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, after Emmons resisted pressure to censor books Palin found objectionable.
Then there's the God stuff: Palin belongs to a church whose pastor, Ed Kalnins, believes that all criticisms of George Bush "come from hell," and wondered aloud if people who voted for John Kerry could be saved. Kalnins, looming as the answer to Obama's Jeremiah Wright, claims that Alaska is going to be a "refuge state" for Christians in the last days, last days which he sometimes speaks of in the present tense. Palin herself has been captured on video mouthing the inevitable born-again idiocies, such as the idea that a recent oilpipeline deal was "God's will." She also described the Iraq War as a "task that is from God" and part of a heavenly "plan." She supports teaching creationism and "abstinence only" in public schools, opposes abortion even for victims of rape, denies the science behind global warming and attends a church that seeks to convert Jews and cure homosexuals.
All of which tells you about what you'd expect from a raise-the-base choice like Palin: She's a puffed-up dimwit with primitive religious beliefs who had to be educated as to the fact that the Constitution did not exactly envision government executives firing librarians. Judging from the importance progressive critics seem to attach to these revelations, you'd think that these were actually negatives in modern American politics. But Americans like politicians who hate books and see the face of Jesus in every tree stump. They like them stupid and mean and ignorant of the rules.
Which is why Palin has only seemed to grow in popularity as more and more of these revelations have come out. The same goes for the most damning aspect of her biography, her total lack of big-game experience. As governor of Alaska, Palin presides over a state whose entire population is barely the size of Memphis. This kind of thing might matter in a country that actually worried about whether its leader was prepared for his job -but not in America.
In America, it takes about two weeks in the limelight for the whole country to think you've been around for years. To a certain extent, this is why Obama is getting a pass on the same issue. He's been on TV every day for two years, and according to the standards of our instant-ramen culture, that's a lifetime of hands-on experience. It is worth noting that the same criticisms of Palin also hold true for two other candidates in this race, John McCain and Barack Obama.
As politicians, both men are more narrative than substance, with McCain rising to prominence on the back of his bio as a suffering war hero and Obama mostly playing the part of the long-lost, futureembracing liberal dreamboat not seen on the national stage since Bobby Kennedy died. If your stomach turns to read how Palin's Kawasaki 704 glasses are flying off the shelves in middle America, you have to accept that middle America probably feels the same way when it hears that Donatella Versace dedicated her collection to Obama during Milan Fashion Week. Or sees the throwing-panties-onstage-"I love you, Obama!" ritual at the Democratic nominee's town-hall appearances.
So, sure, Barack Obama might be every bit as much a slick piece of imageering as Sarah Palin. The difference is in what the image represents. The Obama image represents tolerance, intelligence, education, patience with the notion of compromise and negotiation, and a willingness to stare ugly facts right in the face, all qualities we're actually going to need in government if we're going to get out of this huge mess we're in.
Here's what Sarah Palin represents: being a fat fucking pig who pins "Country First" buttons on his man titties and chants "U-S-A! U-S-A!" at the top of his lungs while his kids live off credit cards and Saudis buy up all the mortgages in Kansas.
The truly disgusting thing about Sarah Palin isn't that she's totally unqualified, or a religious zealot, or married to a secessionist, or unable to educate her own daughter about sex, or a fake conservative who raised taxes and horked up earmark millions every chance she got. No, the most disgusting thing about her is what she says about us: that you can ram us in the ass for eight solid years, and we'll not only thank you for your trouble, we'll sign you up for eight more years, if only you promise to stroke us in the right spot for a few hours around election time.
Democracy doesn't require a whole lot of work of its citizens, but it requires some: It requires taking a good look outside once in a while, and considering the bad news and what it might mean, and making the occasional tough choice, and soberly taking stock of what your real interests are.
This is a very different thing from shopping, which involves passively letting sitcoms melt your brain all day long and then jumping straight into the TV screen to buy a Southern-Style Chicken Sandwich because the slob singing "I'm Lovin' It!" during the commercial break looks just like you. The joy of being a consumer is that it doesn't require thought, responsibility, self-awareness or shame: All you have to do is obey the first urge that gurgles up from your stomach. And then obey the next. And the next. And the next.
And when it comes time to vote, all you have to do is put your Country First -- just like that lady on TV who reminds you of your cousin. U-S-A, baby. U-S-A! U-S-A!
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Since they are a "staggeringly small group", they don't count? And what forced concessions are being made? You've got to be kidding me.And I see that if you don't agree with a group, you call any topics they bring up for discussion "whims and complaints".Nice.
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God Damn Danny Glover that is a LOT of reading- makes me dizzy to look at. I'll just assume what the whole point of that article is "Palin is a cunt". You should have just said that. Brevity, as they say, is the soul of witt. Look at me, I'm the last person who should be preaching consise writing.
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I live in DC, the lawyer Mecca of the world, and yes there is a plethora of lawyers. Perhaps too many. But Samus, you seem to have some notion that every lawyer in the world is some form of ambulance chaser. There are many types of lawyers. Prosecutors, Public Defenders, Criminal, Civil, Divorce, Class-action lawyers (for when Republican corporate cocksuckers get out of hand), Real Estate, Bankruptcy (for when Republican corporate cocksuckers get in over their heads), Insurance, Commercial, Corporate (see above), Property, Malpractice, International, Appeals
Cyber, and yes Tax Attorneys (for when rich Republican cocksuckers want to avoid paying taxes). -
Palin was better than expected, but Biden still won.
I just can't get over the "Gosh, It's just so obvious I'm a washington outsider" Line. Does it get more scripted than that? -
Oct 03, 2008 11:40:45 AM CDT
Samus Aran -- you finally got something right.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Palin is a cunt. Thanks for summing it up for us.
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I saw a lot of U-S-As in there. That article must have been about the evils of jingoism. Hell the whole damn country is awful. Thanks for the news flash Danny.
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how clever for you
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...honestly Sarah could be Nick Palin-- and I would still be calling him a filthy cunt. I refer to McCain as the old rotting cunt. To me the term is not gender specific.
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Wow thanks Hobo, you educated me about the wonderful world of Lawyers. So many kinds, kind of like cereal. Ooo man they're all so cool, I I can't decide which one is my favorite. I want the Class Action Lawyer with kung fu grip and spring loaded vibro axe. Thanks Hobo, I now like lawyers. I bet you are one too. Thank god there are millions and millions of them to help SAVE THE DAY!!! So many ideas, so many out of the box thinkers. They are such fascinating and interesting people. You'd think they would get boring but they never do. I had no idea there were SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS!!!
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Look, gay marriage is quickly becoming a non-issue. The American public have seen gay folks marry over the past year particularly without the fucking world ending, and as time passes overall support for civil unions will become support for gay marriage (in all but the most homophobic and generally fearful). Personally I think that all marriage should be abolished on a governmental level in favor of civil unions which provide identical rights for all couples regardless of sexual orientation. People may have their own marriage ceremonies (through the religious or nonreligious organization of their choice), but government needs to back the fuck off regarding constitutional amendments making gay folks--at best--separate but equal. From a libertarian perspective, that makes most sense. Don't take my guns away and don't tell me who I can and can't be in love with.Look, I seriously was a staunch conservative for years in my adult life, so I understand where you're coming from. But the fact is that the republican party has pulled one over on all of us for years. It took me years to slowly realize that the political reality of republicans in power was not at all in line with what their stated philosophy (minimal governmental intervention) was. The repubs were successful throughout the 90s at always redirecting--pointing the finger of blame and derision at the weak dems (for everything from affirmative action to gay marriage), but times are changing now. Who would've thought even four years ago that the idea of civil unions would be a no brainer for all but the most traditional evangelical voter? Hell, even Palin agreed that couples should be treated equally under the law. We have and are progressing socially as a people.Now don't get me wrong. I have BIG problems with the democratic party. They're often wasteful and patronizing and pandering and spineless as a group. HOWEVER, the repubs in my estimation are as a whole clearly the worst of the two. They claim to be the party of small government and common sense. I've never, EVER seen that rhetoric becoming fact (except, perhaps, for their loving, hands-off treatment of big business, which arguably got us into the financial mess we're in). Notably, over the past eight years I've seen the most wasteful spending, the most arrogant breaches of privacy, the most aggressive and foolish foreign policy decisions and the most tone deaf pandering to big business that I've ever seen in my life. Maybe one day the repubs will become the party of libertarians they've always claimed to be, but that day is clearly a long way off. Thought a little context for my political opinions might be nice. McCain/Palin is a bad ticket imo. On a factual, demonstrable policy level, McCain is not significantly different from Bush. And, goddamnit, this country can't survive four more years of Bush.
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but that doesn't make jingoism less repellent.
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How is it that lawyers even visit this site? I thought most lawyers were bored out of their mind by movies. There is only one interesting thing that lawyers actually take their ties off to enjoy- and that would be sex. The rest of the time they are wearing their bussiness suits and rolling their eyes at those of us who childishly like Jabba the Hutt. Go watch your chick flick so that you can take your pants off and fuck your date HoboCode- don't pretend to like real movies.
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this coming from the guy named after dick blood, nice
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It amazed me you used to be a staunch conservative, yet your views on gay marriage are so sane. Good for you. We're all equal here friends. Nobody is telling you, you can't legally marry your girlfriend because she looks like Charles Dutton in drag. Grow the fuck up people.....
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LOL! Hit a little nerve, did I? Actually I'm not an attorney of any type, though it tickles me to no end that you think I am. The use of "rejoinder" was a purely sardonic move on my part. You know, we were debating as if in a courtroom, throwing out various arguments (some fallacious, others not). It's a metaphor, bud.I'll ease up on you, though. I can see that you clearly can't take the heat today.
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Where did you get that? Who wrote it? Highlight: "It was like watching Gidget address the Reichstag."
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I may have a goofy name and I may go off on some goofy tangents concerning films-- but my world view and opinion on politics isn't nearly as fucked up as yours. Your way of thinking is dangerous and the people you support are disgusting.
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...of the 'dumb hick' we see your true face, a rabid partisan.
(shrug) Ramble on, sirrah. -
http://palinbingo.com ;)
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What the fuck is up with this bit? You are a bizarre individual. And like McCain...you seem to be getting more grouchy and antagonistic as election day approaches.
"Go watch your chick flick so that you can take your pants off and fuck your date HoboCode- don't pretend to like real movies." -
what do you give a shit if gay couples want to marry or don't want to marry? Does it make any fucking difference to your life at all? And if they don't want to marry then they get the same benefits an unmarried heterosexual couple get. Why is this such a mental block for you? who gives a shit if consenting adults want to get married?
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Good for you!
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Oh thank god you aren't a lawyer. Ok I am calming down. Phew. I thought one of those stiff assholic bullshits had creeped their way into this crystal pure haven of fun. Ok I am calming down... blood pressure dropping, creativity returning, blood vessels relaxing... Slow easy breathing. OH SHITT!!! HOBOCODE IS STILL HERE!!! BLOOD PRESSURE RISING! HATRED IGNITING!!! CONSERVATIVISM INTENSIFYING!!!
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And you are a lawyer. So we are even.
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Insightful and hilarious posts keep up the good work!
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The writer is Matt Taibbi, and its on Smoking Chimp. Here is the link.
http://tinyurl.com/4pm4oq -
It's a belting article.
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If I had known just how stupid many of them are I would have pursued it.
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your world view shouldn't be fucked up at all. You should have a good world view:) Sorry if my ideas are too unconventional for you. I guess you don't want to hear different ideas- just your own, or ones not too dissimilar.
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I had a feeling it was him. Thanks.
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Are you saying that minorities deserve fewer rights than those in the majority? If so, that way fascism lies. Marriage should be a nongovernmental religious (or nonreligious) ceremony between couples. If the religious/nonreligious institution is against homosexuality, they have the right not to perform marriage for gay couples. Government should in no way be involved in this "marriage" between two people. HOWEVER, civil unions between gay OR straight couples living together (regardless of their nongovernmental "marriage" to each other) should be afforded the same rights--period. Bottom line: the government should stop calling the civil unions between couples "marriage." The government should butt the fuck out of these private relationships and simply give everyone the rights of insurance and visitation and protection under the law that they all deserve.
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I was much more open to your side 8 years ago. Not that I was agreeing with any of the propaganda....but I was listening a bit more. The time has come for you people to shut the fuck up. The very notion that a human being with a fully functioning brain would continue to defend John McCain absolutely fucking amazes and disgusts me simultaneously. I understand there are people with different views than mine. I understand some people have a more conservative approach to life....thats fine. Even if you are a life long Republican-- fine. But do yourself a favor and stop defending this repulsive puke John McCain and his pathetic, floundering campaign. You are just pumping your mouth full of urine and election day is fast approaching, when you'll eventually have to swallow.
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If Palin appeared in Maxim magazine wearing sexy clothes, swimsuits, and nothing, it would insure a GOP victory. She is a MILF, or a VPILF, and we know why McCain really picked. One night after the election, Palin would come to McCain's office wearing just an overcoat and lipstick...
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Oh well then sorry. I guess I do go around shooting from the hip and jumping to conclusions- that is my style- maybe you noticed :) Personally I don't see any problem with that- especially here on this TOTALLY irrelevant forum. My brain is used to brainstorming, and as such I like to throw stuff out there fast. Don't get me wrong, I really do believe a lot of what I say. But my mind is more maleable than what yours seems to be. Did I spell that right? I myself could NEVER have ended up a lawyer- I'm not as rigid and uptight as you and Danny Glover. But you probably already realized that. Good talking to you.
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All people, straight or gay, deserve to live with the person they love and have the full rights that heterosexual couples currently enjoy under the law. Fewer and fewer people today dispute this. The word "marriage" is the problem now (and one that would be overcome if the government and religious organizations weren't traditionally so tied together). Change is scary, but sometimes it makes sense.
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Well I don't remember ever defending John McCain with any effort. But why exactly is John McCain so "vile". I have already presented my arguments against Obama which you dutifully ignored, as usual. Now how is John McCain anything more than the same boring politician I have always seen him to be in the corner of my eyes as I pay attention to more interesting people? Educate me how he is so much worse than the portrait I fairly painted of Obama.
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The truly disgusting thing about Sarah Palin isn't that she's totally unqualified, or a religious zealot, or married to a secessionist, or unable to educate her own daughter about sex, or a fake conservative who raised taxes and horked up earmark millions every chance she got. No, the most disgusting thing about her is what she says about us: that you can ram us in the ass for eight solid years, and we'll not only thank you for your trouble, we'll sign you up for eight more years, if only you promise to stroke us in the right spot for a few hours around election time.
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C'mon guys... This is starting to SCARE me! She's... not ugly, but she's certainly not model material, either.
Anyway, back to the exchange of insults! -
Oh Jesus fucking Christ.....I've gone on and on and on about that piece of shit for months. I'm not going to take the time to pull up all the specific evidence of McCain being an absolute scumbag. I'm not gonna change your mind just as you won't change mine. Everything that needs to be said about McCain-- has pretty much already been said on these TB's. And of course the "Fair" arguments against Obama somehow always lead back to his race being an issue. Lets forget voting records and all other controversy. Lets keep this campaign with the hot topic the Republicans have always wanted to keep in-- RACE. Obama is not fit to lead this country because he is an extremist black guy. Thats right. He's dangerous folks.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha! Jeeeeeeesus Christ! I hoped you were joking last night but it appears not.
The Bill has passed NOW there will be some upward movement on the Dow. -
reads like a parody of a Liberal opinion column.
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Exactly. I love that little smirk she gives while saying, "Awwww Joe. You guys just wanna keep talkin' about the past dontcha?"
The past?! Its not the past you fucking whore. Its RIGHT FUCKING NOW. You can only call it "THE PAST" once its long behind us and the issues have been resolved. If we're living in these dire time with our country in shambles-- how we got here should probably be discussed donthca think?! Nope. Instead she'll just dodge every question and keep bringing it back to, "Remember folks...I'm just like you!"
Stupid fucking ignorant whore. -
Maybe they were all watching a rerun of the Palin speech ?
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*chug*
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Obama made his "race" an issue from early on in his life. I would like a black canidate who doesn't attend a church that is based on the stark differences between our races, but Obama didn't. I am not making his race an issue - He did that a LONG time ago. Don't pin this on me- I don't enjoy criticizing a black man only to open myself to criticism and accusations of racism. I am not flattered, but it is exactly what I would expect to receive in response to my argument. I believe in the past you have made a sly accusation of such against me as well. Yes let us close our minds off from this aspect of the debate because it is too "touchy". Let me assure you once and for all- I don't like racists. Not liking racists should not make me one in your twisted logic.
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And don't you dare put words in my mouth. I never once insinuated you were a racist motherfucker. I your arguments against Obama are the same as most Republicans....it always comes back to his race. Do I think you're racist? How the fuck do I know...I've never met you. Your attacks are weak and based merely on his inability to lead based on the color of his skin. Deny that all you want fucker.
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we're ALL stockholders now!Now what the fuck do we do with that other 700 billion we've got laying around here?
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Whoever chose that word i nthe drinking game did not show up to work today. One of the many examples from last night of Palin repeating herself in order to dodge questions. "Governor, what do you say about...MAVERICK!"
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Don't answer yet. Think about it. Just think about it.
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Oct 03, 2008 12:36:30 PM CDT
watch interbank lending rate if it frees up this shit might work
by g100
But I'm not that hopefull myself.
And the Dow isn't responding ecstatically either. -
...loooooooooove to misquote. It is their secret weapon.
Cunts. -
you kind of just did- let me read your last post to me again... yup you snuck one in their- not too blatantly, but not very subtle either. You put your own words in your mouth. Trying to bully me out of feeling comfortable to present an honest argument I have that happens to be sensitive. That is one of the BIG reasons I HATE liberals. I HATE political correctness- it is the best innoculant against honest debate. And it is the poison which fills the media today.
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...eating away at McCain's face would hiss if you threw holy water on it.
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Hey I already used the word Cunt, you have to come up with a new word.
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Right the Dow is not responding. That means something doesn't it?
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Oct 03, 2008 12:41:39 PM CDT
DANNY, her shit was so obviously rehersed it was painful
by stuntcock mike
Well, it would have been painful no matter what. Biden's response was right on the money. "What's past is prologue" Pat Buchannan was tripping over his tongue after her speech. More than usual.
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Spelling is fun
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If my attacks were based on his inability to lead based on the color of his skin- that would in fact be a pretty clear racist position. Fortunately for me I have never come close to suggesting such a thing- I know better than that- in many ways I know better than that. Look who is misquoting people. You do exactly what you falsely accuse me of- awesome.
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Political correctness? What the fuck.....I am the least politically correct person on the planet. I never said you were racist or meant to insinuate such. I said all your arguments against Obama lead back to his race. Is that not true? That doesn't mean I think you despise all black people. It just means that your side is weak and desperate and realizing the inevitable end is near. Go ahead and attack him anyway you like...use whatever tactics you have at your disposal, but just realize you look like a cunt. -
NO YOU FUCKING ARE NOT!!!
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Not that the Economy is a complete clusterfuck and no-one is completely sure of the implications of the Bailout.
Go back to your Palin cheerleading Samus.
It's early days yet and the Dow plummeted 777 points when the Bill was rejected. WHY ? Was Wall Street secretly all watching Palin fuck up badly on the Couric interviews when it droppped 777 ? -
Palin won on style and liability. The unfortunate thing is that the bar was set so low for her a bigger deal will be made over her performance. GBiden won hands down on the issues and explaining what Obama wants to do more so then palin did for McCain. I think they both did good, but it's not going to be a game changer. Palin just wiped the sweat off the fore heards of her base and slowed their hearts back down.
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No you said that I base my argument only on the color of his skin. That is outrageous. Look back at what you said if you want. Don't worry, I'm not mad- I'm just calling you to task- I'm not as angry as you might think I am.
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"You're going to have to replace a $12,000 [health-care plan] with a $5,000 [tax-credit] check you've just given to the insurance company. I call that the ultimate bridge to nowhere."
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There are too many questions I asked you that you never answered. What political position does Politician "F" represent?
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That was the one area in which I agree with Biden. I was totally on Biden and Obamas side on that one.
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uhhhh....how about I start calling you Maverick instead, Samus? I'm pretty sure the Republicans have created their own definition for the word. They seem to thing it means -- LYING SCUMBAG.
So yeah....I'll refer to you as a FUCKING MAVERICK from now on Samus. -
Then that's ALL she wrote. Bush and Paulson didn't even have a competent plan "A". Their version of the Bill was a complete fuckup that was rewritten almost instantly. Do you think these idiots have a plan "B" ?
If this doesn't work the Dominoes will really start tumbling again in earnest and there will be no light at the end of the tunnel. A recession is HERE. This is triage and mitigation.
IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID! -
Cheney that. Here's her rambling, barely coherent response to Dick Cheney's abuse of his position as VP:
“Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president’s agenda in that position.
“Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we’ll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation.” -
that would be fine..
Danny I hate political correctness, and always have so much that my instinctual reaction is ussually to go COMPLETELY in the opoosite direction. The more PC people get around me- the more nasty becomes my rhetoric. I almost can't help it- I want to do everything in my power to distance myself from those dishonest lying tools. My reaction is so extreme I won't hesitate to accuse you of it if I get even a whiff that you are one of them. Forgive me. It's in my dick blood. -
Not picking on you, Founder. I just love observing harmless typos like that one when they suit my political agenda!Speaking of which, did anyone catch when Sarah Palin said last night, in reference to McCain, "He is the man needed to leave," then quickly corrected it to "lead." My wife and I cheered. McCain IS "the man needed to leave" indeed.
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Oct 03, 2008 12:57:05 PM CDT
I just can't believe people think Palin is good as VP
by just pillow talk
Put plainly: she is not smart. Not for this position. All she does is repeat what she said before and she cannot expand, nor explain, her positions anymore than her initial response. Are you not worried as hell if she were to become President of the United States of America?? I do not understand this blind loyalty to the Republican party when they are the farthest things from fiscally conservative.And is no one worried about her thoughts on expanding VP power? Would you really want her to potentially have more power if McCain was elected?
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Oct 03, 2008 12:57:19 PM CDT
Over 80% voters R committed now. Not good news for McCain.
by the founder
Now I don't want to scream victory before it happens, because this damn election is a freaking whirlwind. Obama is surging in the polls in all the battle ground states. The problem for McCain is people's decions are starting to cement in cause the election date is nearing. Already a little over 80% of registered voters have their minds officially made up. now the 15-18% of undecideds are still enough of an edge to maybe give it to Mccain, but it's not looking good. McCain's already given up Michigan and WI is coming next i heard. Personally I still think the electoral map is going to be a tie and in some weird never been seen before shyi that Obama will be president and Mccain will be VP or vice versa.
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“The primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there’s a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit."
“The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he’s part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.” -
Keep trying in vain to divert the discussion. You tried to claim the only people who supported a homeowning society were the Dems. I PROVED you were talking out of your ASS with the Bush quote and you started whining about Bush. I showed you REAgan had the same view and you flip-flopped and said Homeowning was a "core-conservative value" and tried to claim that the it just wasn't a praticular "type" of homeowning.
Stop spinning son. You just make yourself look more and more foolish. -
I found it rather amusing.
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You are scaring me, seriously. I have to keep reminding myself that you who are the bearer of bad tiding are the same guy that can't distinguish conservative behaviour from liberal behaviour.
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Here is my quote:
"Your attacks are weak and based merely on his inability to lead based on the color of his skin. " I never claimed you said "Obama can't be President because he's black." I said your attacks are "BASED" on the color of his skin. Which is true. I have heard you bring up the black extreme ideology bit every chance you get when trying to prove why he is unfit for office. Now I will agree, this doesn't directly mean you think it has to do with the fact that he is black. Sure-- Joe Biden could be the Presidential candidate, and you could offer evidence that he himself has black extremist views. So fine...you're right....it is not based on the color of Obama's skin, its merely based on the way he might be thinking-- based on the color of his skin or the color of the skin of those he has surrounded himself with. -
Oct 03, 2008 1:02:48 PM CDT
"Bearer of Bad Tiding" yes dipshit it's MY fault the Economys fu
by g100
And PLEASE keep trying to paint Bush as a Liberal or a Democrat.
My God that shit is Hilarious and the posters lined up on here to laugh at you. -
Ok touche- I see what you are saying, not a bad argument. I withdraw that. Well I sort of agree that you made a good argument just now- but it still was a sly underhanded little jab at me.
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You said, "It makes me happy to see a normal person do well in the world and represent normal people."
Call me an elitist if you want, but I want my leaders to be smarter than me and my "normal" friends. I want a leader, not a goddamn amiable grocery checker, at the controls of the ship of this country.
And if I have to hear it pronounced "noo-CUE-lurr" for four more years, I'm gonna pray for a NU-clear missile to land in my living room. -
I know it's not a real "issue" much less a life/death situation but could someone please tell these people (Bush and Palin at the least) that the fucking word is pronounced: NUK - LEE - AR and not fucking NUK - U - LAR? Please? Someone?
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CDS Credit Default Swaps. Remember the name :Posted Aug 5th 08
by G100 Aug 5th, 2008 03:52:25 AM
Think the Economy can't get any worse ?
The Banks are currently terrified that all the C.D.S. currently in play and looking shaky will make Fannie Mae and Feddie Mac look like a mom and pop bail out.
*****Now fuck off back to your Palin cheerleading as it's all you are fit for or can adequately mange. Leave the heavy lifting on the IMPORTANT shit like the Economy to those who at least a little about it. -
Overloaded with info from the Mccain/Bush camp. I think in the debate she was able to put a little of herself in, but she's been made to look like a parody by the people drilling so much info in hear head. I'm an Obama supporter and nothing she does is going to sway me, but I can be fair. Poeple are screaming that she couldn't explain the answers or defend Mccain. Well duh, the republicans have no record to run on after Bush. All they can do is attack with the usual ammo the Republicans use against the dems every election. Now it works more then it doesn't cause the Dems has always been 2nd to attacking and discrediting the republicans even when their right.
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How do you gage that? You don't like the sound of her voice? She doesn't agree with your views? And Obama is "smarter" than her why? Because YOU agree with him?
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CDS Credit Default Swaps. Remember the name :Posted Aug 5th 08
by G100 Aug 5th, 2008 03:52:25 AM
Think the Economy can't get any worse ?
The Banks are currently terrified that all the C.D.S. currently in play and looking shaky will make Fannie Mae and Feddie Mac look like a mom and pop bail out.
*****Now fuck off back to your Palin cheerleading as it's all you are fit for or can adequately manage. Leave the heavy lifting on the IMPORTANT shit like the Economy to those who at least know a little about it.(sp corr.)
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Agreed. That shit is annoying as hell.
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Imagine trying to not answer one of his questions. He would stare right through her ignorant ass. If she's man enough to shoot defenseless wolves from helicopters, then she is man enough to go for an arm snapping from The Sultan of Pain himself.
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I also said that I want that normal person to be smart and understand the issues. And I believe I am a smart normal person (although many people here would quickly acuse me of being misinformed:) ) So I want someone in who is like me. I know ahead of time that I am opening myself to all kinds of criticism- who cares. Anyways, normal person does not mean average intelligence- it means that they arent living in some weird life in Washington snorting lines off the pussies of prostitutes. I know Biden doesnt do that most likely, I actually think I like him- and Obama doesnt do lines off pussies, but his friends who he is almost exactly the same as sure do. So anyways, let me reiterate, because I am so proud of my funny little imagery :) Normal means intelligent but not snorting coke off pussies, or Charlie Kelly's boner as the case may be. Got it? Oh and yeah I am irritated that she can't pronounce nuclear too, I was wincing all night long during the debate every time she said- I decided I am used to hearing it that way, and perhaps that is the correct hic way of pronouncing that word. There is such thing as "proper slang" - of course I am kidding here- it is just plain wrong, but again- oh well.
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By the way, I didn't make it clear- Palin is definately smart. Get over yourselves thinking she is less intelligent than y'all- that is baseless.
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Oct 03, 2008 1:20:33 PM CDT
Samus Aran -- now I know you're full of shit....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
There is nothing wrong with snorting lines of coke off the pussy of a hooker. NOTHING!!
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...does not make you smart. She can memorize talking points. Who fucking cares?
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"Liberals" DO wanna talk about "The Past".
But Conservatives wanna LIVE There. (But only in a romanticized, de-minoritized Fantasyland.) -
Finally you made me laugh- sorta
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Oct 03, 2008 1:23:42 PM CDT
Palin Knows a lot about the economy, she does live next to a ban
by the founder
Couldn't resist that one. It came from Jimmy Kimmel by the way.
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Oct 03, 2008 1:26:07 PM CDT
Founder-- it got cut off.......you fucked it up!!
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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You take one sliver of information, and bake it into an entire pie full of jack shit. The Dictator issue, the NOI/Malik issue. Trinity/Obama. Lawyers, etc etc. You yourself said " I guess I do go around shooting from the hip and jumping to conclusions- that is, my style- maybe you noticed :) " So, you want a President like you? Guess what bunkie, his name is George W. Bush. I am tired of him, and your ignorance.
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Likewise, not knowing where Charlie Gibson was going with his broad question about the Bush Doctrine does not make her stupid- I have no idea what kind of answer he was looking for either. Do I agree with a multifaceted strategy on fighting terrorism? Well I am not an expert of fighting terrorism so I can't say for sure yet. I guess that is the answer she should have given. The Bush Doctrine is not ONLY about preemtive action- that is part of it- sorry she didn't read Charlie Gibsons mind on which specific aspect of the bush doctrine he was talking about.
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Than how come she struggles to put a coherent sentence together. And not to be elitest but fucking speak correctly. Donchya and Gochya and Nookyoolar are not words. It's a bastardization of the English language conservatives hold so dear and it makes you sound like an illiterate hick.
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now you really made me laugh- that was clever. natch
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does not change the shithole that we find ourselves in. It would be nice not to repeat the same mistakes of starting wars based upon lies, screwing up the economy, and telling the rest of the world to fuck off and piss them all off. But wait, who cares what the rest of the world thinks, right? Only it does matter since cooperation is key to stabilizing regions and countries, to provide united fronts against nations that are questionable in nature at best. It also makes it harder for us to provide consultation to other countries if we don't even follow our own rules (a la the lack of regulation we told Latin American countries they needed to fix..too bad we didn't do the same).
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Oh my god I could ask you the SAME EXACT THING about Obama. The same damn thing- but every single one of his speaches is like that. However I consider Obama to be very smart actually- his intelligence is not in question in my mind.
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Not knowing where the question was going, Samus? She didn't know what it even WAS?
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Oct 03, 2008 1:34:09 PM CDT
Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also Also
by g100
ALSO, Also, also, also. ALSO ALSO! Also, also, also, also, also. Also, also. ALSO, Also, also, also. ALSO ALSO! Also, also, also, also, also. Also, also.
ALSO Palin Also said "you said you were for it then against it Joe!" Yes just like you did on the Bridge to nowhere Palin you Robotic speaking dimwit. -
At least I am adding a little color to this "debate". It wasn't a debate at all when I first got in here- it was just bullshit dimentia like "Bush is going to declare Marshal Law and crown himself dictator for life before January". That thinking isn't extreme, but my impuning Obama for regular attendance to a racist church is insane. Oh and I was dead on with my lawyer comments. There are so damn many of them- admit it it's true. They are like Pogs.
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reported more on? Two of the largest banks in the US and just a gloss over about them going under. Gotta love the media. Yeah people call most of it liberal, but the heads that run them are conservative leaning. After that Leaman Brothers went under and the big reporting on that and bringing the economy front and center gave Obama a good edge. I see why they ordered litte be reported on WAMU and Wachovia failing.
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She might not have known, I don't think that is certain. What is certain is that it is waaay too late for her to come out now and refute that if I am right. I really don't know, and neither do you.
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http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnypictures/ig/Funny-Pictures-of-the-Week/McBush.-20K.htm
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You are completely delusional. And defending her ignorance is inexcusable. She is a fucking moron. Go ahead and promote ignorant minds to run your country. After all-- intelligent people are just fucking elitists, right? I love how Republicans defend her by saying, "Well...would you be able to answer that question about the Bush Doctrine?" Uhhhhh....I'M NOT RUNNING FOR VICE FUCKING PRESIDENT!! I would like to think I would be a little more prepared for shit like that. And now you see-- she was incredibly well prepared for the debate. She memorized everything the campaign shoved in her face. She was not a human being speaking, she was a trained robot. She didn't understand a word she was saying, and that was quite clear. She looked like a 3rd grader that stayed up all night memorizing their presentation. They recite it to the audience with the glossy, unsure gaze of a cow. Its cute for a little kid....but terrifying for someone running for a V.P. seat where the head guy is in his 70's and his race is rotting off. -
His speeches are fumbling and awkward- I don't know why you guys think it sounds like such poetry- it sounds weird. Full of stuttering, stumbling and I detect insincerity because of it.
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Hiding or Pretending this catastrophe will somehow "go away" is simply not an option.
And McCain and Palin better get used to speaking about the Economy, day in day out, because that's the whole fucking Ball Game from here on in. -
I never said that the Bush Doctrine isnt important for her to know- I know better than to say "Well...would you be able to answer that question about the Bush Doctrine?". I didn't know what the bush doctrine was before I watched the interview, but I also quickly realized that she was responsible to know that when running for VP. My point is that she seems to have actually known, but Charlie Gibson seems to not have known what it was. That is why she was slightly confused- at least that is my thesis.
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Yeah McCain's "Pedophile Whisper" is music to your fucking ears, right? He's a wonderful speaker my friends!!
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you've added nothing to the debate except rightwing political brainwashed rants. Your a legend in your own mind.
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Who in the hell cares? My only point was that you guys are jumping to conclusions about intelligence based on the speech patterns of these people, and I am saying they all are awkward at times- except for Biden- big deal- instead he makes bizzare Gaffs.
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More of a melting wax mixed with Elmers Glue consistency. Ah, fuck it, rot sounds about right.
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Nice one. Very little that I have said here is stuff that has been preached to me by anyone- that is the very reason why people find my suggestions so alarming- they have never even heard some of these arguments. You can say that I am wrong- but I am coming up with my own arguments- you can't accuse me of parroting talking points here. I am saying the things that most people are too scared to say. I may be wrong, but I am not a parrot. Well not always at least- I havent been here.
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Oct 03, 2008 1:48:58 PM CDT
Samus Aran -- no one is jumping to conclusions...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...we've had about 5 weeks to come to the conclusion that yes, Sarah Palin is indeed a fucking moron. I'm not talking about stuttering or bizarre speech patterns-- I'm talking a dead, vacant, hollowness in here eyes that screams, "GET ME THE FUCK OUT OF HERE, I'M LOST!!"
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Everybody makes gaffs - exept in Palin's case, that's ALL she seems to do, and in everyone else's case they have tons of past performance to measure their gaffs against.
"I'm surprised I have to explain this." - Joe Bob Briggs
(Well, not really. You're just flailing about like a drowning man.) -
...and say-- I looked into her eyes and I saw 4 letters, the D, the U, the M, and the B.
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Don't give yourself so much credit pal. Your arguments are the same regurgitated garbage I hear from right wingers everywhere. You are basically Coughlin Laws' dull little brother.
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He has drastically cut back on the soaring rhetoric of his past speeches, in direct response to critics who said that is all he could do. He has been parsing his words lately, and that has led to the halting, pausing and frankly slightly dishonest sounding speeches of late. He is trying too hard to mold his image into less populism and more convntional sounding. He is losing his edge in that way. The speech he gave on race relations - after the Rev. Wright thing blew up, was the finest speech I have ever heard in my lifetime. Now, I am going to shock some of you and say that the second finest speech I have ever heard was from George W. Bush. It was his State of the Union after 9/11. It was magnificent.
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How did she seem "to have actually known" what the Bush Doctrine was? What part of the non-answer she gave made it seem like she knew? And did you mean 'theory' and not 'thesis'? Thesis is a brief description of what your paper is about.
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I think you see in her eyes exactly what you want to see.
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He used thesis correctly.
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oh ok sorry- theory, whatever
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....is your position in an argument. It doesn't have to pertain to a paper. It is just the position you wish to take.
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Thank you danny- I should've had more confidence in my use of language- I was pretty sure I used it right
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I've only heard it relating to your position within a paper.
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Oct 03, 2008 1:59:35 PM CDT
Russell Crowe puts on weight for Body of Lies....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Actor Russell Crowe wants to avoid roles where he has to put on weight - after piling on the pounds for Ridley Scott's upcoming movie Body Of Lies.
The star plays a CIA boss in the thriller movie, and was told by Scott he needed to bulk up for the role.
So the Gladiator actor piled on more than 50 pounds (22.7 kilograms) preparing for the part.
But Crowe was so disgusted with his appearance, he will now think twice about accepting a similar role again.
He tells USA Today newspaper, "Ridley called up and said .Now, mate, would you mind putting on a significant amount of weight? I see him (the character) as an ex-athlete who has let himself go'. And I trust him so much, I say yes first and rationalize pretentious artistic reason later.
"When I see my gut hanging between my legs, I don't know what I was thinking. I'm not sure I'd do that again."
Crowe's Body of Lies co-star and close friend Leonardo DiCaprio was also shocked by the actor's bulky new physique.
He adds, "I busted out laughing, I couldn't stop."
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A dissertation (also called thesis or disquisition) is a document that presents the author's research and findings and is submitted in support of candidature for a degree or professional qualification.[1] The word "thesis" comes from the Greek θέσις, meaning "position", and refers to an intellectual proposition.
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Yeah...I think thats the modern day use of the word. I believe it was more common way back...I have heard in Charles Dickens era stuff where someone says, "I immediately took a thesis on the disagreement." Weird shit like that.
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Oh yeah, there is an example- WHere Have any of you heard ANYONE suggest that Palin actually did know what the bush doctrine was like I just suggested? I certainly have never heard anyone present that possibility. See? I am coming up with my own material. See? See?
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Unless you want to add to the conversation concerning Russell Crowe's massive gut...I'm finished with yee.
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Oct 03, 2008 2:03:37 PM CDT
"Obama made his "race" an issue from early on in his life."
by oisin5199
Yeah, he made his race an issue early on in his life when he insisted on being born with dark skin.
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but like him, she's evasive, untruthful, fake, and waaaaay out of her league. I hope that when she loses this election, that she goes back to Alaska and loses re-election as governor, and she'll go away forever.
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I remember he gained a bunch of weight for The Insider as well. Then turned into pure muscle for Gladiator.
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what did I just do? that was weird... A weird angry comment against me out of nowhere- I was being very corgial- real nice like. I think you owe me an apology for this one.
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http://tinyurl.com/5xqbfw
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Damn you Dickens!
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Jesus Christ another one. Thank you for totally misunderstanding EVERYTHING!!!
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Sounds like a pot calling the kettle black.
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Just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful reply regarding my entry into your "Find a lie in the Michael Moore movie" challenge.
While I think we can debate the semantics of MM's presentation being dishonest for days, I will concede you offered a good defense.
But overall, I'd say you were being intellectually dishonest regarding the integrity (or lack thereof) in Moore's so called documentaries. I think you know as well as I that MM's movies are one-sided to a fault. He tends to present only data which support his thesis, and leaves out any contrary facts or opinion. His failure to point out these contrary ideas constitutes a "lie of omission", in my opinion.
If Moore were truly a journalist he would be held to a different standard. The omission of relevant, contradictory information would be regarded as poor reporting. Perhaps documentary films are not held to the same standards as the press, perhaps. I don't know, but it seems that similar rules should apply to these films as well, if they are to be taken seriously, that is.
But then again, nobody really takes Moore's films seriously anymore. Since the debut of Farenheit 9-11, many have realized that Moore has settled into his role as a writer of propaganda pieces. There is no trace of journalistic integrity to be found in his recent films.
You mentioned the Guantanamo stunt in Sicko. This was a ridiculous flail by Moore to create buzz for his film. Yes the soldiers deserved medical care, but to take them to an island used by the military as a prison was just foolish. He may as well have taken them to San Quentin. It's not the role of the base on Guantanamo Bay to care for injured soldiers. Period. MM knew this, knew he wouldn't get in, and the whole mess was just a ridiculous, disingenuous stunt.
And the bit on Cuba's healthcare system? Disgraceful. Maybe he didn't say Cuba is the paragon of medical care (that would be laughable on it's face), but he does imply their system is superior to that in the US. He was willingly 'rolled' by the communist propaganda agents there. He was taken to Cuba's most elite hospital, and this is what he depicts in the film. Do all Cuban citizens receive this level of care? I think not. And there are many first-hand accounts of the exceptionally poor healthcare on the island (unclean facilities, lack of medications, etc.). There are just as many accounts regarding flaws in the other systems he depicts (e.g. Canadian healthcare, which is truly known for it's long waiting periods for care).
But showing the downsides of government run, universal healthcare doesn't suit MM's purposes, does it? So he convieniently leaves these issues out of his film, presenting only the best of these systems while ignoring their worst.
Dishonest? Most certainly. An out and out lie? Perhaps, perhaps not. But if what MM does is not a lie, per se, it's certainly a far cry from an straight-forward, objective depiction of reality. And this does a disservice to his audience.
You may disagree here, Hobo. But we both know you're smart enough to see the propaganda techniques Moore uses. Whether you will admit to it or not is the question. -
A speech given by Dubya is the 2nd best speech you've ever heard? Really? That's sad let me list a few speeches for you better than that one.
Any speech given by Bill Clinton.
Any speech given on the sitcom Boston Legal.
The "Summer of George" speech from Seinfeld.
Any speech given by a third grader anywhere within American borders. -
I want my Mac back. No redo function? I undid an awesome Samusian post and it was gone forever. It was poetry.
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Oct 03, 2008 2:24:53 PM CDT
Pillow - if you are still here, head over to the twicth board
by toadkillerdog
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What you had the good smackdown on me? Can you give me the jist of it? I am all ready to woop that ball over the net!!!
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http://tinyurl.com/3nhhuv
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But following the attack on our country - unprecedented as it was. Following the groping around our leadership did in the first few hours/days. Following a real anxiety about our security, what Bush did at the SOU was simply tremendous. It was not just 'we shall overcome' boilerplate. 'We are a strong nation' etc. etc. It was not paens and platitudes, it was strong, forceful, leadership. It was a brilliantly written speech, and brilliantly delivered by a man whose public speaking expectations hovered in the Palin range. I make no apologies for abolutely feeling the most patriotic I felt in a very, very long time after that speech. He was my President at that time. And this was and always will be my Country, and we were attacked. I would have followed him all they way to Mullah Omar's hidey hole if he had asked.
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That fucking blows.
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Oct 03, 2008 2:36:06 PM CDT
One last thing bubba - I am and always will be a Marine
by toadkillerdog
So legitimate appeals to my patriotism - especially when we are attacked, work on me like a hungry dog being lured by a T-bone
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Moore has never claimed to be a journalist. He has repeatedly said in that vain that he is an activist and a filmmaker. I'm not going to argue that Moore's films don't have an agenda. In that respect they are propaganda. But they are propaganda based on factual evidence (with the occasional gaffe; i.e. the newspaper headline), which was the point I was trying to make. It's not like he's pulling figures out of thin air.
I also don't deny the Gitmo scene was a stunt. Stunts are part of Moore's gorilla tactics. I don't think anyone with half a brain walked away from that film thinking Cuba's healthcare was superior to ours, and I vehemently disagree withyou that that was Moore's intent. Cuba is poor country that has been decimated by our longstanding and cruel embargo against them. Of course their healthcare system is lacking. They're driving around in 50's era automobiles for goodness sake. That's not becasue of socialism. A better depiction of what universal healthcare would look like in this country would be the western European and Canadian health facilities he visited in the film which are far from paltry.
Whether Moore's films do a disservice to his audience is subjective. My personal belief is that they are anything but harmful, but do a good job of showing where America needs improvement but at the same time showing the resiliance of the people that make up our nation. I find that inspiring and challenging and I think many others do as well. -
The flowchart made me laugh!
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http://tinyurl.com/5cwump
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http://tinyurl.com/4tjodw
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Please look at this and tell me what you think... http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=d8y1e-z1JA0 Take out the space. Please tell me if this doesn't turn your stomach completely. You guys are smart guys- please tell me if this doesn't seriously make you want to reach into youtube and throttle the necks of each of these FUCKING ASSOLES. I ranted about celebrities earlier- oh my god I just wish these SONS OF FUCKING BITCHES WOULD DIE!!! I'm not kidding, I can't take the self righteous bullshit of these people ANY MORE!!! Look at this video and tell me please that you agree with me- I need to know that I am not alone in my hatred of these horrible horrible people. I know you guys vote democrat and all, but please tell me you cant stand this putrid display. Please... I promise not to make any more nasty comments- like for an entire day- I SWEAR. Just tell me you hate these people too.
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...statement up above. Hey genius, go jump out a fifty story window and see the "effect" of gravity. I think, on you way up to the Purly Gates, you'll believe you just proved it does exist. Honestly, are some of you people that stupid?
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I have said before I wish celebrities would shut the fuck up when it comes to politics. They do not but hurt the cause.
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That comment was meant to illustrate that the claim that evolution 'has not been proven' is just as invalid as claiming gravity 'has not been proven'. It was not meant to be taken at face value.
What was that you were saying about stupidity? -
since you are still floating around i actually think that it is you (and most americans) who don't know what liberal means. put simply it means 'i want the government to be smaller and to stay out of my business' which sounds more like what people claim the definition of conservative is. in fact in my country the conservative part is actually goes by the name the Liberal party. ps for the last forty years the party that can be most relied on to increase the size of the government is the republican party. and as for 'the government staying out of my business' well the republicans don't follow that motto either (unless you are talking about guns.) for example: gay people, the republicans love to get involved in their personal business. phone tapping. the patroit act.
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Oct 03, 2008 4:01:10 PM CDT
Coughlins Laws -- there you are you filthy cunt...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....I was looking for a warm hole to cover in urine. Now open your mouth and blow!!
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http://tinyurl.com/52lc5sRather interesting.
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"Hey...I just saw "The Dark Knight.""What did you think?"I thought it was okay, but it's not the Second Coming."You Filthy Cunt.
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The interesting thing about it is, in last week's debate, he was also reading MCCAIN'S lines. You could see Obama moving his lips slightly along with McCain's grousing. Awesome teleprompter; amazing debate.
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... a link to a page refuting it:
http://womeninbusiness.about.com/od/womenspolitics/a/cra-lie-truths.htm
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don't legitimize the man's comments. Judd Apatow pretty much nailed it.
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Oct 03, 2008 4:08:50 PM CDT
Coughlins Laws -- you better save that grand buddy....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...you'll need it once Obama boosts the taxes on all you rich folk. You have never once proven me to be a liar. It is true....I'm a 12 year old virgin. And the only time I ever got close to a vagina, I had the uncontrollable urge to urinate on it. Its the same feeling I get every time I see your name on one of your bullshit post-- where you spew right wing propaganda and no one listens.
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It wasn't a smackdown, it was just silly. I painted a vivid picture of the world seen through your eyes. At the end, I worked the letters "KKK" into your name. It really was quite fabulous.
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her Folksy shrill voice and delivery of nonsubstance cuts into my last nerves. i hope America doesn't fall for her "Oh, gee, you betcha fellowww Soccer annn Hockey Mom" crap. but i'm fearful they will.
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Governor Palin did okay by me in the debate. Now on to McCain and Obama.
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And I got news for you. Offering money to get my real name and address is a chargeable offense. Now I have documentation of it.
Thank you. Now fuck off. -
http://tinyurl.com/4pfj3n
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My use of the word CUNT is not at all misogynistic. To me-- the word has nothing to do with women. For example, you can pull up any one of my posts directed toward you-- and find me referring to you as a filthy CUNT. The term is not at all gender specific.
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Pull up a direct quote from a post where I wished death on you. I dare you.....and tell me the name of the TB and at which date and time I can find it. Lets see it fucker.
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Obama said he reserves the right to sit down with the head of any state, including Iran. The grayness comes in because 1) Ahmedinejad (sp) will likely be voted out of office within the next six months, and 2) one could argue that the REAL Iranian power lies with the mullahs. Acmedickwad isn't a necessary component to the Obama/Biden point.
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You're a fucking liar. Post the quote and tell us where to find it or shut the fuck up.
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I find his films "challenging" as well- but maybe not in the same way as you do :)
I'm glad Moore doesn't claim to be a straight documentarian. At least that is honest. But why then did he submit a propaganda film for Oscar consideration in the "Best Documentary" catagory then? Isn't it a shame that a propaganda film, lacking in journalistic integrity, should win over more traditional documentaries which at least try to present an accurate depiction of reality? You can guess my opinion here.
That he won is another issue entirely. Hollywood's bias is well-known, so this is not unexpected. It was an award given to make a political point, much the same as Al Gore being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Regarding the disservice to the audience: I'd say that what Moore does is a disservice because he wants to railroad the audience into one conclusion. He certainly discusses important issues of the day, and that is a good thing. But wouldn't it be better to present more than one side of an issue and let people draw their own conclusions? Can't the audience be trusted to reasonably evaluate the merits of all the arguments? It's almost as though Moore doesn't give the viewer credit for this ability, or perhaps he has such disdain for opposing viewpoints that he doesn't feel the merit presentation. I think any argument that he either has too little time for a full discussion, or "it's his movie, he doesn't have to present the other side" (which I've hear on TB's before) is complete crap. I say- let the audience decide. You may feel differently.
Just as an example- in Sicko, Moore argues exclusively for state-run, universal healthcare. Are their no other viable alternatives out there he could have discussed? Truthfully, there are many, and showing some alternatives would give a more complete picture. If UHC is clearly the best solution, people would appreciate that for themselves. And by presenting the various sides, Moore's credibility would have been bolstered.
Oh, well. -
Why the FUCK I won't Vote. Obama is better but only a small percent of what he blabs about he'll pull off. Like I said before, all you are doing is changing the frosting, it's still the same fucking cake.
I will vote when in this country homeless shelters are not needed. Soup kitchens are history. That the lowest level of living is that they are provided their OWN shelter, food, sanitation. and basic medicine. From there we can build up.
Education about planned childhood/adoption, finances, animals, health/diet and the responsibilities of them.
A limited time frame candidates have to campaign. A narrow window for advertising. A fairness for other candidates to run for president. Rather then a rigged election process that only lets dems and reps run. Unless you have hundreds of millions of dollars.
Please VOTE and say yes to this horse shit of a system.
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I hope your house has been baby-proofed. You've both lost control - take a breather.
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...all I can say is fuck off and gargle my urine.
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vote for Nader if you're not intending to vote at all. Seriously. Don't waste a vote, but if you'll stay home anyway...
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back to your corners - literally no one cares about your personal battle. take it somewhere else.
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This diseased cunt just likes to play with me...
Its fine until he starts licking my balls without fingering my asshole. I've told him several times....balls....asshole....they are indeed bedfellows. -
To see why, amusing as last nights Debate was and as amusing as the next one will no doubt be, this Election is already being Won and Lost on Main Steet America RIGHT NOW for both Candidates regardless of all the "personality" fluff.
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you americans are so stunchly against it it amazing me. i've said it before and i'll say it again, australia has free universal health care and those that want private cover can get it for about 1k per year. we also pay LESS tax than you guys. plus you got to keep in mind (most people don't realise this) that the economic incidence of a cost is not always the same as legal incidence of a cost. for example if you introduce a tax on petrol, it makes NO DIFFERENCE if you tax the supplier or the consumer, the supplier will pass the tax onto the consumer anyway. consequently if you think your employer gives you health care cover for free you are wrong. it comes out of your pay, in the sense that without it, they would otherwise pay you more. so even if your employer pays it you are still being charged, what, 14k per year for health care coverage, on top of pay more tax anyway. that 14k, not really necessary under universal health care can be seen as a tax on your income anyway. someone, the other day said outraged, that universal health care would cost 400b. (i don't know if that figure is acurate) so ok, fair enough, they take 400bill out of your pocket. but then they put ten times that back into your pocket, cause your don't need private coverage, and if you choose to get it it will be cheaper. Not only do i not have an out of pocket expense for health coverage, but i also pay less tax. (oh yes and we have world class services, my gf works in a hospital)
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any of you guys catch O'Reilly slapping Barney Frank around?Man, NOBODY will every be a guest on O'Reilly's show now. They'd be too scared.
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Because he fucked Bills wife. Yeeeeaaahhhh Boyeeeeeeeee!!!
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Poor Bill will get that burning sensation soon.
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How dare those celebrities that are idolized by the public and have nothing better to do participate in a video trying to get young people to take part in our democracy and vote. What is the big deal? It's a fucking PSA and you act like it's a personal attack on you.
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I have to admit I know little about the Aussie healthcare system, but I'm glad you feel it is working. Other countries do not do as well.
I live in upstate NY, and I have seen more than a few patients who have come to the US and paid out-of-pocket for various surgeries. The wait time was simply too long for them back home. I am good friends with a number of Canadian physicians who report similar issues with access, particularly for patients needing urgent diagnostic studies. Some stories I've heard in this regard are quite troubling.
I personally have little faith in the US government when it comes to the idea of UHC. One only need look at their local Veterans Administration hospital to get a sense of how things would be. Remember the Walter Reed fisasco? I'd hate to see something similar spread across the country here. And unless we break the backs of taxpayers, care will need to be rationed. In the UK, for instance, this has resulted in an age cap for dialysis- that's right- you hit 70 years of age and no state funded dialysis for you!
There will always be high-end hospitals for those wealthy enough to afford them, but based on their track record, I think it's a distinct possibility that patient care will suffer under UHC. Plus- does everyone really want their private medical information in the hands of the government? Something to consider there.
Why not expand the income limits in which one can qualify for medicaid? That system is already in place, and it works fairly well. Physicians are poorly compensated for services, but it does allow low income families to get good care. This would also require a tax raise, but it would be effective and relatively easy to implement.
Rarely do things improve in this country when the government takes over management. I firmly believe that, and many of the founding fathers did as well.
As Thoreau said: “The best government is that which governs least.” How true. -
I would have liked to have seen one celebrity say something like, "If you don't care about the unborn, don't vote," to balance things out. Or perhaps, "If you don't care about your right to bear arms, don't vote."The commercial was not so much a PSA as a Democrat ad.But yeah, seeing well-paid idiot actors trying to sound deep is amusing. Why we think their opinion matters more than the opinion of the guy who fixes your sink is beyond me.
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I hope you slide under a gas truck and taste your own blood. Lets get this straight fuckers. These huge companies and WS brokers get so greedy, that they tip the rules in their favor (big time). The auto industry doesn't get it through their oil soaked heads to push for alternative energies. So gas sky rockets and now none of the materialistic fuckers want to buy their gas hog machines. So they cry to Uncle Sam....boo hoo! Bail me out. So $25bil is going to the auto industry. So because of "leveraging" on WS and mortgages both at fault from the mortgage companies and just simple "I gotta have it" assholes that try and live beyond their needs are why we are in this problem. So now the gov wants to do what they have taught their brainwashed students to do. Charge everything. We'll pay for it later. So expect some big time inflation down the road. And you are paying for it. The printing of $850 billion is 8.5 billion $100 bills.
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It seemed as though they misheard ever question as "ignore what I just said and instead pander to dumbass middle America with feel-good folksiness that is empty of all meaning."
Remember when they were asked about gay marriage? Did you see how they both slid to the middle so much that Ifil incredulously concluded with, "Well, I guess you both feel exactly the same way about gay marriage. Huh, okay. Next topic."
I didn't hear a single actual plan for anything, just sweeping generalizations about nothing. They just recited feel-good talking points and made baseless attacks against each other. I sat there waiting and waiting for one of them to say anything of meaning, but all I heard was empty PR talk.
If you think anybody "won" this debate then you've already sank into the pit of bias of whichever campaign that you will never escape from. This was an insult to any intelligent person, a disillusionment with politics, and a collosal waste of time.
I mean, think about how many millions of collective hours people spent on watching these two vapid parrots spew out talking points. Millions of hours! A whole freaking lifetime! Think about how much better that time could have been spent to help the world. Think of how much good could have been accomplished. But no. We've all been cheated here and the only loser in this debate is America. -
Leo and George don't want you to get out and vote...they want you to get out and vote for Obama so why don't they just say so?
They don't see themselves as partisan...they see their view as the right, superior and natural order of things and anything contrary as a gross abberation of all that is good. -
Bail out the people who have fallen
in the huge cracks in this selfish system. -
I everybody took that amount of time last night and put it torward their favorite cause it would bear unbelievable fruit.
That's a key reason why I don't believe in a government solving peoples problems. We could fix the world in a week if humanity were so inclined.
McCain and Obama are just 2 people. -
Yeah well it amazes me that there are actually people like you who don't want to wretch when the see celebrities talk down to people like this, but my energy against that fucking commercial has really died down because I have been totally enjoying the newest episode of Sunny in Philadelphia- so I am all better now. I'm not mad anymore but screw those celebrities- I hate everyone of those filthy creeps.
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And one more thing, are you seriously comfortable with the idea that kids who idolize celebrities go out to vote? Those are the dead last people who should be voting.
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They just reported that a 90 year woman shot herself when they were trying to evict her because of a foreclosure. Fannie May said that they would drop the loan and she can have the house. She's in the hospital.
So this is what it's coming to? WTF! -
that is not to say it is perfect, we have had controversies lately, but the controversies are of a different order. it is my view that government should intercede in the event of market failure. I certainly would consider having a large part of ones population without or with too little health care market failure. furthermore one must remember that there exists a thing called externalities (which are a major reason for market failure). A transaction will occur when a consumer and supplier agree on price. Sometimes, due to the existence of externalities this point is not the most efficient point. an externality is usually an economic benifit or loss that is not included in the actual transaction. the classic example is the wood pulping mill that puts it's by product into lake reducing the lakes value for commercial fishing. This costs someone money, but because that someone is not the mill, and they are the one that makes the decision, they do it anyway. In this example less runoff will be economically efficent, but do to the external nature of the cost the pulp mill does not do the thing that is efficent. health care is like this. healthy people work harder and longer and pay more tax. they are less likely to go bankrupt and steal your radio. there are a large range of social benifits acrued from having a healthy population that are external to the cost charged by a private health care firm. consequently they supply below the efficient level, because due to privatisation some of the benefits to health care exist external to the actual transaction.
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I thought you said it was gonna go up because according to you, palin won the debate. Are you going to admit that your a moron now?
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Has anyone else seen this thing? Even if you're not voting for McCain it's pretty offensive. This is right up there with those "secret Muslim" e-mails about Obama. Seriously, wow.
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this is the magazine that somehow finds a way to incorporate Bob Dylan into the modern music scene with every issue. The whole magazine reads like it's written by a 40-something-year-old trying to look cool to college kids. Fuck 'em.
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I agree with you completely, but again, if the government must intervene, I believe it would best be done by bolstering the existing systems of medicaid and medicare. It would be the quickest way to implement change, and would avoid the need for a wholesale restructuring of the system. Look at the frickin' bail-out bill! What started off as a simple plan to help with the credit crisis now has a ridiculous amount of 'sweeteners' that have nothing to do with the problem at hand. This is exactly the kind of crap that would be introduced into UHC if it comes here: wasteful beurocratic nonsense that would ultimately lead to frustration for both patients and physicians.
This ultimately is my biggest concern with Obama- I don't think he's aware of the incredible amount of tax raising that would need to occurr for his healthcare plan to work. Hillary has already been up against this problem, and she failed miserably. Maybe she would have done better with her second go-around, but we'll likely never know. I have even less faith in noob Obama's ability to tackle this incredibly complex issue.
So let's keep it simple- expand the existing systems of medicare and medicaid to cover a wider range of ages and income. And we may want to consider, at the same time, capping malpractice awards for instance to lower the overall cost of delivering care. (not likely given the amount of $$ trial lawyers contribute to both parties.) -
Oct 03, 2008 6:43:29 PM CDT
My favorite Palin moment: she referred to Joe as "O'Biden"
by chromedome
by accident, or on purpose, either way: priceless....
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I don't care what you say: the bailout package really IS a shit burger that should have been voted down yet again till Washington wised up and stripped it of its pork. Typical Washington: "Hey, people are pissed that we're going to spend $700 Billion of their money on this thing, so what the fuck -- since they're already pissed let's ADD another $150 Billion on top of it."And now I just saw on the news that Arnold gave a press conference to warn that the California State Treasury will be out of money by month's end. Result: California will need somewhere in the range of a $7 Billion bailout to get by.You know, once the Wall Street thing broke, my brother (who is an MBA financial whiz kid) said "Mark my words. After this bailout goes through and the piggy bank has been cracked open, one by one the states will come knocking to wipe out their deficits, looking to use bailouts to rebalance their budgets citing all the same concerns as Wall Street. Talking about all the dire things that will happen at the state level if they don't get more money from somebody." I guess I'll have to call him up since it looks like he was right.Honestly, who the fuck is running these banks and state governments and everything else? Seriously, isn't the idea that you can ONLY spend what you take in something they still teach in Economics 101? Or did all these morons cut class that day?
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Oh my god you are the moron- I said that the day would open with it up- from that point on I knew that it would be affected by the bailout- Nice try there though buddy. Did you notice it started up 100 points like I said? Good for you.
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is Ifill did a sub-par job. Now go back to accusing a politcal journalist of bias for ... covering politics.
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You said: "Rereading my post, I can see a misunderstanding. For that, I'm sorry. I wasn't implying you were a racist yourself for bringing this up."No problem. Sorry as well for blowing my stack at you earlier too, Were. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, and I have no problem with that. We each can take a stand and vote how you want, and so long as people are arguing or are going out to vote and taking part in the process I'm a happy man since I like to see people energized and actually involved in the process, regardless of who wins.And for the record, I brought up the race issue to simply follow up on a previous post by someone else, basically to say that I agree that it will still be an issue come election day. That's not me trying to be Karl Rove or me trying to "shore up the base." Hey, I'm a base of one -- me. But that said, I do think it's silly to think that race WON'T somehow be involved in this election. However, that could be a GOOD thing. Maybe (as you've countered) we'll find out race wasn't so important to the voters and we HAVE advanced as a society. So race played a role, but only to a teeny tiny degree and that tells us something as well.All I was trying to say in my post is that we really won't know the answer till Election Day since obviously nobody is going to say to a pollster right now that they intend to vote against Obama for because of race -- they'll just cover themselves by pointing to anything else they can think of. That's why I said the exit poll numbers and how they break down really will give us a solid idea of where we stand as a society. As for your notion that I was saying McCain would get a 10+ bump from it, I never said that at all -- in fact, I never stated ANY number except what the AP/Yahoo polling tests seemed to reveal. Now, whether those numbers are disturbingly right or totally way off, again, we'll find out on election day. That's all I was saying...
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Here's my current favorite: "“nuclear weaponry, of course, would be the be-all, end-all of just too many people and too many parts of our planet.”True, true.
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both a challenge and a real question: do you know where i can go to find the text of the (both) bills. If you don't you're a tool. but if you do, i am in fact keen to read them, at the moment i only know vague details of those bills and it seems to me most people only know vague details and mold these partisanly raised details to back their own premade opinions. In short if you know where i can read the bill, i would like to.
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That is totally on the stupid ass 12 Republicans who voted against the measure the first time. They were WARNED what would happen, and sure enough, the economy started tanking at an accelerated pace in just the last 5 days.
Thanks a lot, Republicans. Another $150 Billion wasted for no reason. Well, except for the portion going to the FDIC increased insurance limits. That's a good thing and it was proposed by Obama. -
And just to clarify this was already the Balout mark 3. The 3rd iteration after the lunacy of the first Batshit Insane Bush/Paulson Bill.
Moral Hazzard is what the Economists quaintly refer to eliminating risk by bailing out in a free market. And that was broached long ago now.
The real part 2 of this solution has to be tackled soon. Yes, some of the worst poison in Toxic worthless securities will be sucked out of the worst Banks and Institutions and Corporations BUT unless the Government injects Capital (capital matched by the current shareholders) into the GOOD Banks then this is merely stopping the blood loss. There needs to be solid reliable trustworthy fully working Banks again not just patched up half dead ones. And reducing the debt burden is step number 3.
Will any of this happen ? Doubt it, as the people in control at the moment are fuckwitted idiots but those steps are not my idea but I have heard them proposed again and again by some of the few people who DID predict this clusterfuck and it's implications so it's not inconcievable that they will occur if things get much worse. -
The problem was how to stuff their buddy's pockets full of cash while PRETENDING to address the crisis. This way a massive amount of money can disappear, and everyone having trouble with their mortgage STILL owes the bank! They get paid TWICE!
"I'm surprised I have to explain this" - Joe Bob Briggs
(Actually, I'm sure you're well aware of all that.) -
By buying the mortgages, the government hopes that they will recoup the money once the housing market recovers. No such hope if they just pay them off. Besides, can you imagine selling that to the American people? "Hey, ummm...hi everyone. Um, you know how some people bought houses they couldn't afford? How they got in over their heads instead of acting responsibly with what little money they had? Yeah, uh...about that. We're just going to pay off their mortgages. Hope that's ok."
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they bought them with the intent to resell back when the market recovers. To make a profit. Even before that, gov will not do anything for its citizens. It'll never help the little guy. You have to be 90 and shoot yourself like I posted earlier before the bank says "Ahh, you can forget the loan!"
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Yes they are a BIG part, but not all. The toxic securities bringing down Banks and Corporations are in large part sub-prime mortage ones. (in fact alt-A which is a level above sub-prime are ALSO defaulting fast) but it's not all sub-prime.
Put simply it's CREDIT and DEBT of all types. This is a Credit Crunch. Loans of all sorts are infecting those poisonous securites not just mortgages.
This Bills headline action is to buy the sub-prime backed Toxic securities but it will probably also be used to clean out the most pernicious and infected securities of those Banks and Institutions that can be saved. That means sub-prime and alt-A mortgages and all the other debt backed securities.
But reducing the Debt burden is a clear and necessary goal. Debt reduction is a huge factor. House prices have to stabalize at some point. Snowballing foreclosures will simply accelerate the house price crash. So if that means a deal on mortgages then that's what will happen.
The Bail out is to save the Banking system from total collapse. Like it or not. Because if that goes then all else is pretty moot.
Action to save those in trouble with mortgages and to try and wrest control back from a tanking Housing Market must occur too. And the sooner the Politicians get on board with that the better.
This is a colossal clusterfuck. It will not be simple to get out of. And it's going to take a whole lot more than this one Bill to do it.
Not to mention finding competent people who CAN get it done as those like Bush and Paulson and Bernanke have proved nothing but a complete and utter fucking inability to regulate or predict or present reasonable legislation to tackle all this. -
She asked if she could because she had this stupid folksy "Say it Ain't So, Joe" line ready, and she wanted to get permission to use it without being disrespectful (normally they call eachother Senator or Governor). She only called him "Joe" once, when she delivered that stupid line "Say it Ain't So, Joe. There you go again, looking backwards". You could see the big grin on her face before she said it, "Oh boy, I get to use a folksy Reagan-ish catch phrase now!" Do the Republicans have their "Say it Aint So, Joe" placard s and attack ads ready? So phony.
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And her say it ain't so Joe line was pathetic because she tried chide Biden for being for something then against it, EXACTLY like she was with that enromous triumph of insider "Maverick" pork The Bridge to nowhere.
Oh and Ted Stevens indictment is coming along nicely from what I understand, so I wonder how she will respond to questions about him ? (If she is ever let out of the box again of course.) -
is where something (such as the laws or regulations) provides an economic incentive to cheat (loosely) in the context of this debate, bailing out the banks (which i agree with) creates a moral hazard in that it sets a precedent (but we already knew this would happen, current evens is just proving what we know). The moral harazard created is that ten years from now big banks (such as a still existing freddie) to some degree will have an incentive to engage in risky behavior as they know the govt will bail them out. kinda like free insurance. don't know if that makes sense, but the point is bailing out the banks sends a signal to future ceo that if you make your bank big enough, the govt won't allow it to go bankrupt now matter how risky your behavior. this is moral hazard.the credit crunch is estentially a bunch of major lenders on the international market suddenly realising they have no more money to lend and also, the rerating of some loans from investment grade to junk grade forcing some investors to dump them (eg superannuation funds that have rules over the type of investments that they are allowed to hold) i really want to read the text of the bill but my guess as to why they are doing it (instead of giving the money to homeowners) is that giving to home owners would also send the wrong signal. they way they are doing it for want of better words is more free market. i mean i wouldnt call the bail out socialism, but paying off peoples home loans certainly would be.
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And here is a passage from Final call.com News about the mortgage crisis which explains a bit.
"As home prices fall, that wipes out home equity, often leaving homeowners underwater, with mortgages worth more than their homes,” the article said. “Some 10 million homeowners are now underwater, according to Economy.com, and that number will continue to grow as home prices plummet. Underwater borrowers have higher rates of foreclosure than those with some home equity, since they can’t tap their homes for cash in case of an emergency. And some owners are simply walking away from homes that have lost so much value rather than continuing to make expensive payments every month.”
***You have to help those in forecluse and trouble without somehow wrecking the rest of the housing market. Not easy. Not simple. -
you seem pretty switched on. a week ago i was disagreeing with a lot of what you were saying, but you are obviously reading a lot about this because you come across as what i would call 'the sensible left' which is what i call myself. mostly believe in free market but with caveats. plus for all you republicans out there, having just finished a degree in economics i would say most economics are what i would call slightly left wing (my lecturers anyway). most people in finance are left wing. i think this is due to the difference between short term and long term economic growth. sometimes the steps for those two things are the opposite, and economists are more likely to look to the long term. healthy well educated people commit less crime and pay more tax.
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As I Have no doubt made some. I FOLLOW this Economic story closely and have for a long while but it certainly don't mean I am an Expert. (though who fucking is by the looks of things?)
Though just speaking for myself, I still say privatising profits and socialising losses is Financial Socialism however you try and slice it. -
Certainly no direspect aimed at you chipps as I value your contributions.
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Doh!
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and i have no idea. i have been talking in vague concepts not specifics because the specifics of this bill are a bit of an unknown to me (and i think most people commenting here) the biggest question i have right now, and i don't know the answer is 'who will fund this' not the us govt, they plan to borrow the money. but the point of the credit crunch is they ran out of people to borrow from. i find this a scary question. my gut says fucking everyone will band together to fund it because it is against the interest of EVERYONE to see the us go under. germany and china will be talking a hammer to the piggy bank. as for expert in charge don't know. buffet (greatest investor of our and prob everytime) is a good person to listen to. particualar since as you pointed out he has been banging on about this stuff for a while. and really, bailing these guys out does in fact cause a big problem in the form of moral hazard, but it already existed in an implicit sense and there is not much you can do about it. people are right in saying that the way our system works is if you take a risk and do well you get money, if you fuck up you should loose. people are right to say that fucking with these ideas causes big problems. that said they are less bad than the alternative problems.
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he is a big obama supporter, and a massively patriotic american and if you listen to him, while he believes in capitalism and making a profit, he also believes in looking after the little guy. it may be unrealistic politically but BUFFET FOR SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY!!!! There is no way you could do better.
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Biden's attempt to correct Palin ignored the following:
Article I of the Constitution pertains to the Legislative branch of the government, not the Exectutive branch. "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided." Note that it mentions a role beyond the tie-breaking vote. As President of the Senate, the Vice President can (and has through most of the country's history) preside over the Senate. Which is why there is an office for the Vice President on Capitol Hill. Palin wasn't talking about expanding the role of Vice President, just about how the role is flexible in that it's not just about being a tie-breaking vote. But this won't matter to anyone who has already made up/closed their mind... -
Kidnapping, assault, robbery. 13 years to the day on the murder trial. He'll definitely be away for life. He's 61 and the kidnapping is a 15 year sentence. Plus 1-2 years on all other counts.
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Chipps, you said: "Do you know where I can go to find the text of the (both) bills? If you don't you're a tool. But if you do, I am in fact keen to read them, at the moment I only know vague details of those bills and it seems to me most people only know vague details and mold these partisanly raised details to back their own premade opinions. In short if you know where I can read the bill, I would like to."Well, since I don't want to be a "tool" here you go. This was the original bill...http://tinyurl.com/4nlp6aAnd here is the revised Bill...http://tinyurl.com/4d5gjwOh, and next time you can be less of a tool yourself and use this amazing new invention called "Google"...
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"Can I call you Joe?" is because
"Say it ain't so senator" just doesn't cut it. It was already written on her cue cards. -
Just saw the announcement live. At long, long last there will be some sort of justice. Hope he gets plenty of ass rapings. That son of a bitch deserves to be squealing like a pig every moment he's behind bars...
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yeah i found i it and have been reading. and i do mean thanks. my point is and was that, you were being very specific and seeming to claim extra knowledge over others. if you had the extra knowledge than that is fair enough but if you were claiming extra knowledge and didn't have it then you were a 'tool'. I myself only had a vague knowledge and wanted to upgrade. and i did google it. and it took a while to find it. i couldn't even find a good copy on the congressional/ senate web site (or at least my browser didn't like it). anyway thanks.
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google? what is this google you speak of. is it on the internets??
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has been slow in coming to my large barren land. if i stop riding my stationary bike, my commodore 64 loses power and shuts down.
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he wrote the law that fucked over Chong for selling a bong across state lines. Fuck Obama/Biden they're both fascist fuckwad puppets like EVERY POLITICIAN ON EARTH. You sheeple are pathetic.
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For years US Financiers made "ninja" (No Income, No Job or Assets -I think) home loans to poor people.
They were risky (high prospect of repayment default) but profitable -the Financiers charge higher interest rates (often after a Honeymoon period) to compensate for the risk that many borrowers would default.
The borrowers gave mortgages over their (cheap) homes. So on default, the Financiers had a right to sell the house in a rising market, so there ought not be a major loss on the defaulted loan.
There were substantial commissions for the middlemen who went out and found customers for the Financiers, and for employees of the financiers who wrote the loans.
Therefore there were major incentives to write risky loans. Lots of people were making money out of this risky business.
Then the Financiers sold their rights (ie to receive repayment, or to sell the house and recoup the debt) to other Financiers.
That is, the risk was passed on up the food chain.
These rights were then, in effect, traded for profit by bankers in the US financial market - and to some extent, overseas.
Then the economy slowed, so there were less jobs and the housing market fell, so that the poor people started to default in large numbers and when the mortgage-holders sold the houses (if they could be sold) the sale prices were insufficient to repay the new financiers what they paid when they purchased the mortgage rights.
This meant that gradually financiers had less money to lend. So fewer people bought houses. The vicious cycle drove the housing market further down.
This didn't happen in your large barren land because your government (like many others) implemented strict lending and prudential controls in the 1990s, In the US, the Republican administration didn't favour that sort of regulation.
The solution is more complicated.
The financiers (mainly banks) will sell their mortgage-backed securities in a series of auctions starting in about a month.
Private financial firms will be hired to handle the process, subject to Treasury guidelines.
Nobody knows what will happen at the first auction. The financiers hope they will be able to sell their assets (aka "toxic loans and mortgages") for at least 20% of what they paid for them. They'll take a loss but won't be wiped out.
The Treasury can spend up to $700bn at the auctions but it's expected that there will be other buyers of these assets. There is still plenty of investment capital looking for assets in the market. The fact that the US Treasury is prepared to outbid private purchasers at these auctions to ensure a sale at a reasonable value should encourage purchasers.
When all these toxic loans and mortgages are sold (and maybe the Treasury will purchase the majority) the new owners will wait, hoping that they rise in value. Meaning, that they hope the housing market will improve so that the mortgaged houses can be sold at a reasonable price: alternatively, that the economy will improve so that the original borrowers (remember the poor people) can start making repayments to save their homes.
Make sense?
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demanded banks lend money to the poor and minorities who should NEVER have received loans in the first place.
The bail out should NOT have passed. Too bad we can't hold a special election to replace ALL the government except those who voted against the bailout. Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, George W. Bush, and Chris Cox should be hanged for treason. -
I'm not faulting you but too many are trying to put this crisis on the poor and minorities. The truth is some low income people did default because their payments jumped up. The lower income home buyers just wanted a place to live and own their own home. Sure their may have been risk but if their interest rate remained the same most would still be in their home. Now lets add in both the middle and upper middle class that jumped into the mix who instead of buying that 300k home got a 600k home or the upper middle class who instead of buying that 600k home that they could afford bought the million dollar one. So lets not put it on the low income and minotrites as the main reason. Also lets throw in realtors, investors and brokers who bought several or more properties in growing areas where home values were skyrocketing and flipped them to make a profit, but then got stuck with more inventory that they could afford when the market slowed downed and crashed. Lets be fair and point the blame at a host of people and not just the low income.
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starting to get drunk so i will reread later but 'risk was passed on up the food chain' this part dosn't sit right. see when you value an asset, one crucial aspect is risk reward, in theory, every asset should have the same payoff, adjusted for risk. you don't just 'pass it up the food chain' you get a profit from taking it on. i think that the problem lay in a, complicated conracts people didn't try to understand (as long as nick leason is making a profit no one wants to look into it), and b, poor oversight by the govt. as i've said before, the law is prob fine, the prob prob lies in lack of enforcement. (drunkenly) i pretty much agree with most of what you say. as for us, we are the only first world country to rely on agriculture and mining. the only one. i am not a fan of our previous govt, but we got lucky. see china wanted our ore. we export more than we import, really through luck alone, us having most of the worlds coal, aluminum, iron ore. thankful china wants it so we lucked out. if you guys are thankful of anything in our aliance, don't be thankful of the aussies who died in the war on terror. be thankful that we will always support you, and we oppose digging up our uranium for anyone but you and britain, and we have 40% of the worlds supply
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I don't know if Obama is going to win, but the truth is this close to the election things are starting to cement and things are in his favor but i won't and no one should declare victory for him just yet. McCain has issues that are troubling for him and things calming down isn't going to help. 160k jobs has just been lost, Mccain said 2 weeks ago that the economy is sound and that gave people a WTF moment about his reasoning. Also with the unpopularity of this bail out by many americans it doesn't look good. Most americans see it as the GOV with their tax money is bailing out these greedy, wealthy and corupt rich guys who caused this mess. A lot of people do understand that it has to be done cause it will impact mainstreet aswell but it doesnt sit right with most including me. These ceo's are walking away with tens of millions. They aren't losing anything. No this crisis is to freash and 30 days isn't going to calm, especially if Obama and the dems keep it in the news and talk about it, which they will. The hope that McCain has is some international crisis happens, Obama makes some huge gaff which is probably unlikly or McCain does stellar at the last two debates, which doesn't look good, cause both him and Obama are skilled politicians and I think the next two will end up being draws as well. McCain has an uphill battle, not impossiable, but now more difficult.
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Low income borrowers were, understandably, attempting to buy homes. I can't see why they can be blamed for that.
I was simply attempting to outline the situation in neutral terms to Chipps.
He indicated uncertainty about the mechanics of the Buyback. -
Get the fuck off that latest tactic. I'm black(minorty) and I didn't lose my home and so did a lot of other minorties. Don't come with that racial BS trying to put the blame on us. The GOP is trying to float this tactic around to get support from whites. Can you sink any lower. I'm surprised you left out blacks in your comment like that btrain dead bitch in congress who said exactly that, and she made sure she used blacks and other minorties lodly trying to blame us for this crisis. Alot of factors caused this mess, with most coming from the greedy on wall street. I can list a host of points that proves how wrong you are. Middle and upper middle class poeple got over their heads as well and bought homes they couldn't afford as well. Sure it's good if you could afford a 600k home, but stick to that and not go for the million dollar one, which pleanty did who earn very decent incomes. Theirs plenty blame to go around, but the poor, blacks, and other minorities aren't the cause of the problem.
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Oct 04, 2008 3:52:03 AM CDT
Irritable it's fine but where i live I see a lot of defaults.
by the founder
I live in Broward county FL and I can tell you in the south Broward area that is hardly low income their are a so many forclosures, bank owned and short sales going on is sad. 800 and 900k homes are going for 400-500k. You can go to yahoo real estate and just put in cities like Miramar or Pembroke Pines for proff. Bank owned, and short sale is listed on a lot of them. Anything you see from 350 to 500k was a years ago worth between 500-900k easily. All I'm saying is a lot of higher classand income earners got in over their head to.
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speculation in the housing market by wealthier investors grossly aggravated the situation.
Housing prices became inflated. The market kept going up.
The point is, that this rising market encouraged financiers who lent to low-income borrowers, ie. the Sub-Prime lenders, and banks who purchased Sub-Prime loans.
So, it seems correct to say that the eventual collapse of the Sub-Prime market "caused" the crisis. But it's incorrect to say that the low-income borrowers were in any way morally responsible for the crisis. They had no control over housing prices or the state of the job market.
There's always a risk of this sort of problem in an under-regulated market.
However, US governments (and especially Republican administrations) have traditionally been reluctant to closely regulate markets. You can understand the reasoning, but there are inherent risks. -
The general collapse of the housing market burned many higher-income borrowers severely.
However, they were lower-risk borrowers with more valuable security to minimize the loss to their banks.
These non-Sub-prime lenders were therefore less badly affected by the crisis than banks which had a high exposure to Sub-Prime securities. -
I've let myslef get way out of hand lately, making assumptions and trying too hard to reframe issues at the expense of civility. I'm glad someone could call me on it. I appreciate the kind words, and I'll try not to be such an ass going forward.
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Oct 04, 2008 7:48:14 AM CDT
VICIOUS FISHUS USES WORD "REJOINDER". SAMUS HAS MELTDOWN.
by bringingsexyback
ROFLLMMAAM!!!OOO!!!!
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It's a legal document.
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"And one more thing, are you seriously comfortable with the idea that kids who idolize celebrities go out to vote? Those are the dead last people who should be voting."
........That's where it starts, y'know. "I don't think that those people should be voting. Those people are too stupid and too easily influenced to be entrusted with a responsibility like Representative Government. Those people shouldn't be ALLOWED to vote!"
Well Now, I COULD say the same thing about idiotic religious fanatics that let their pastor/minister/rabbi/guru/"spiritual guide" do all their thinking for them, now couldn't I? Or maybe the same goes for people who out of sheer disgust have avoided politics for years - until, that is, a polarizing, galvanizing figure finally emerges to rekindle their interest. But they "forfeited" their right to vote, eh? Through their "Prior refusal to engage in the process", maybe?
Then, logically following, I could rule out people that are too "stupid" to "Understand" the "Complexity of the trenchant issues." (I'll let someone totally unbiased like, oh, say, YOU - and your particular political belief system, natch - do the "Stupidity" definition. There. Nice and Tidy and Oh-So-Convenient, isn't it?
Get Over Yourself, asshole. You're just mad because you know that those "Stupid Kids" won't be voting for YOUR candidate. You'd be barking a different tune if those filthy, inhuman celebrities were encouraging kids to vote for McCain - or for Bush and Reagan, the way Schwarzenegger, Willis and other conservative celebs did years ago. Ah, but that's DIFFERENT, isn't it?
You have one of the highest Bullshit-To-Message ratios on this board, you know? Or Do You? That's another place where it starts. "Me? BIASED?! Horrors, NO! I just know where I stand on a particular issue...............like Voter Qualification." -
"Honestly, who the fuck is running these banks and state governments and everything else? Seriously, isn't the idea that you can ONLY spend what you take in something they still teach in Economics 101? Or did all these morons cut class that day?"
They were probably at the same political rally as you.
The word you're looking for isn't "Economics" - it's CAPITALISM, where niggling details like Ethics and Regulation and Legality are just "concepts" to be swept away when the neighbor just pulled into his driveway in a new Mercedes and you're still driving last year's model. THAT'S who the fuck is running things. What, are you SURPRISED or something? -
Good luck with that John. We all know Independents love the negative ads. Can't wait to see you cower before Obama on Tuesday.
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She wasn't promoting expanding powers a la Cheney, nor was she referring to the "flexibility" of the VP role. She was talking out her ass, and making very little sense. What she said was a Rorshach test, an abstraction that people are reading too much into. It was babbling, nothing more.
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I didn't notice during the debate but watching clips, including her bizarre VP spiel, she answers questions saying "we" instead of "I". I wish someone would point this out on televesion and validate my sad and pathetic life.
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...not just low-end borrowers but middle-class and slightly above who just had to have that McMansion like everyone else seemed to want in the recently burst bubble-market of home buying. No, a nice two bedroom starter home wasn't good enough for the "ownership society" who seemed to exemplify gluttony what with parking their Hummers or Excursions in front of the two gas-hog car(?) garage. Face it Uhmerika, we met the sub-prime enemy and he was us.
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You didn't really listen to what she had to say, but heard only what you wanted to hear. Since you didn't want to hear anything from her in the firs place, nothing she said would make sense to you. As for your words, "She was talking out her ass ... babbling, nothing more." Well, anyone can see that you were really talking about yourself. A fair person would debate on the ideas presented. Just flinging shit is for monkeys. Also, Palin's use of "we" was never a 'royal' use of the word. It referred to either the McCain-Palin administration and/or the American people. That was clear to any fair minded person listening. However, you did mention that you came up with this from watching clips. That is not surprising, since many such clips are edited for slanted effect. If you rely just on such biased sources for your world view, it's no wonder you have such a negative view of your life. Take off your blinders, do some independent research, LISTEN to all sides, and think for yourself. It takes more effort, but it will expand your world and help you help yourself and others. Once you are used to being a truly self-reliant and independent thinker, you will realize that you no longer rely on television talking heads to validate you and your life that is no longer sad and pathetic.
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Read the post. I said I DIDN'T NOTICE IT AT THE TIME but did watching clips. That means I WATCHED the debate when it first aired AND have watched the clips as they are shown on news shows. I happen to have the ability to watch "talking heads" AND form my own opinion. I wam not that easily swayed. As for her use of "we" YOU do some research and then tell me it was in reference to the administration. At times it was, but at times it wasn't. Similarly, I did listen to what she had to say regarding the VP position and it was more or less lacking in any kind of substance, plus being coherent. Your assumptions about how much someone is paying attention and/or forming their own thoughts are a poor tool in an argument, especially when you form them simply because the other person disagrees with you.Here's the Governer's water-treading response, for anyone who actually cares:"Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also."
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McCain should give himself a chance and actually present some kind of overall plan and philosophy. So much of what he does right now is based on "trust me, I'll do what's best for America because I'm a Maverick." Independants have NEVER swallowed this stuff. So, why negatve campaigning? Two possibilities: 1. His real ideas are actually more liberal than the Republican base will tolerate. 2. He has no ideas that differ from the current administration. Either way, you can infer the same truth from both possibilities: McCain has little control over his own message. Far too much power is in the hands of special interests, big biz, and impractical ideology who have grown fatter off the gov't teet since 1994. Frankly, if this is true, than I almost feel bad for McCain. He's had to sacrifice almost of of his principals to offer a 2 dimensional caricature of himself, shallow and without substance. He's too good a man for that, and frankly, it kind of sucks. So what choce does he have other than bringing on the negativity.
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Here's the question and the answer, lest anyone think she actually answered it with any kind of substance:Ifill:"Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?"Palin:"Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also."
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...but I know of at least three couples who knew they were getting in over their heads but chose to gamble anyway. They're still hanging on (barely) but the Hummer is proving to be a tough sell for one of them...wonder why?
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It seems that you read my post with the same care you listened to Palin... Try reading it again with an open mind and with your defensiveness switched 'off.' Then take some time away from your television and computer and enjoy this beautiful day. That's what I'm going to do. Heading out to the country for a BBQ, skeet-shooting, and fireworks party. God bless America! And you, too, T.R.
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I think the simplest solution to these banks failing - and requiring bailouts from the federal government to prevent a catastrophe - is to not let them get too big,nor too intertwined. Then if one fails, it will cause problems but nothing like the current mess.
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You're right, I need to open my mind and chill. I'm so uptight. And sad and pathetic ...
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In essence her answer was correct because her answer was vague enough to be correct in essence to almost any question regarding the vice presidency. However in this case, being correct in an abstract sort of way is insufficient. What Cheney has claimed in regards to the nature of the posistion has less to do with flexibility than with a lack of culpability. His position on this is far, far more controversial than any mere "flexibility" would be, hence the question. So in the most Palin didn't demonstrate much if any understanding. That's my take, anyway.
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I get the housing market crisis enough where I understand it. I won't pretend to know more then I really do, but I get the basics. Sub-prime loans were shady, but I still stand by that it was mid to upper middle class buyers that were in just as deep as low incomers. With the way prices were rising and the market booming a 350k house wasn't what it used to be 10 years ago. If you wanted something spacious like over 3000sqft you were going to pay 500-600k easily in south FL without the additional upgrades. I stand by the fact that a lot of people with decent income of say like a working family with a 150k income went out and grabbed that 700k house when they should've stuck with what they could afford in the 300k range, heck even the people who could afford a 700k home wanted more and they as i've said went for the million dollar one. Yeah they may have been able to provide more stability on paper, have a higher fico score and put that 20% down or more, but a lot of them defaulted also and the loss in my opinion was bigger then say someone who lost a 150k home as opposed to a 700k plus one. They to were inticed with the low interest rates and the interest only loans just as well as the starter home buyer or low income buyer. I'm didn't even include the folks who were buying and flipping properties. A lot of investors purchased properties at preconstruction prices and I'm not talking one. i saw a special on tv, and some of these people were going in to new home communities and buying like 5 to even 10 properties at the lower price with the intention of flipping. A lot of them got burnt and was stuck with them when the bubble burst and they ended up defaulting as well. We can go back and forth and i know you're not just blaming the poor but the truth is the blame is enough to go around for many, especially the banks who knew they were going to sell those risky loans off.
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I like McCain and he is everything you said he was. I think McCain's time was in 2000 personally. Even as a democrat I liked and respected him enough speaking honestly to even vote for him. Just one of the problems that doesn't sit well with me about Mccain is that all the Bush people moved in a took over his campaigne. He sold his soul, especially since one of them Bush people were the one who put that nasty and racist rumor out there in the SC primary in 2000 that he had fathered a black baby, when the girl was adopted and not even black. It makes me question his integrity and if he can even be trusted. Another problem is that he don't have a sound plan for the country, or if he do it will probably upset his to conservative base. Yeah he can try, but the republican brand just doesn't hold much water and can't be defending becasue of Bush. Can McCain win? Sure hestill can, but it becoming more and more difficult for him. He's got an uphill battle. I'm sure he's gonna fight, but going negative isn't the answer and pretty much works with your base only. McCain has to gamble and try a new risky but at the same time interesting tactic or plan or policy. Just something that's pretty far out there that people will make people pause and go "that could work".
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This is AICN, not CNN. ;)
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That would actually be pretty ironic, as now there's been at least one case of an investment bank scrambling to merge with a commercial bank to try and remain solvent! Strange days ...
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of the VP's powers. Biden verbally cut her head off and reminded the american public, That Cheney is easily the most dangerous VP in History.
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I know what you're saying, but like I said, I think she was just blabbering as generally as she could. I seriously doubt she fully understood the question, much less called for anything ...
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talking about Ayres again. You know . . . when the charges against Ayres were dropped in 1974, Omaba was 12 years old. 12 years old. 12 years old. TWELVE! Just wanted to mention that.
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Of course, I'm talking about my beer...
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I was thinking the exact same thing when she pulled the "say it aint so Joe" and "pointing backward". What a retard she is. Anyone with half a brian could see past that D-list howdy doody acting skill.
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Coughlin has such a hard on for you! Hahaha! Keep up the good work man.
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... Billy Brownbag?
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...just how drunk ARE you, anyway? LBJ had JFK whacked, but WE'RE conspiracy theorist nutjobs?
Everybody KNOWS that it was Nixon and Bobby Kennedy Jr and Frank Sinatra and Marilyn Monroe's monm that put their little noggins together and framed Jack Ruby for it.... -
....Sonny Gambino played bass on the soundtrack! NOT Charlie Haden! Take THAT, Conspiracy Nutjobs!
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I think our debate boils down to this: Is there something special about sub-prime lending that makes the US housing market collapse a more severe crisis?
Wikipedia has info on "Subprime Lending" and "Subprime Mortgage Crisis" which provides far more detail than my original thumbnail post to Chipps.
Although "subprime" loans are imprecisely defined, the significant statistic is that although subprime ARMs only represent 6.8% of the loans outstanding in the US, yet they represent 43.0% of the foreclosures started during the third quarter of 2007.
So although the collapse of the US Housing Housing Bubble caused defaults and hardship amongst many middle class and wealthy homeowners, (due to unwise borrowing by many of them, as you say) it seems that the worst economic damage (foreclosures, bankruptcies, bank failures etc) was found disproportionately in the subprime sector. -
....has an entire TB devoted to Biden/Palin, and Agent Johnson is worrying if "The Media" is "obsessed" with Sarah Palin.
These kids today - they're so CUTE!
Yeah, Agent, keep the spin rollin' there, son.....three weeks ago, Palin's "Folksy Manner" and "Authentic Hometown Style" and her "Vast Governing Experience" were her chief selling points - and now that America has decided that her speech patterns grate on it's fucking nerves, and we have also realized that Palin is an opportunistic neophyte - suddenly it's "The Media"'s fault....In much the same way that a mouse that's too smart to take the bait is "The Media's Fault".
Conservatives remind me of a frightened child that can only be consoled by hearing the exact same fairy tale, over and over and over and over...... -
talking non issues as well. They both went from Lip stick on pigs to Obama the pop star. For god sakes man the McCain campaigne is getting a taste of their own medicine. I a 100% agreewith you. i want the issues talked about and Obama has been doning that, maybe not perfectly but he is hell bent on keeping ot to the issues and not cultural and who do you like the best and who is more like you. that is what McCain and Palin were doing before Leman Brothers and AIG tanked and changed the whole format of the race.
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... to be obsessively interested in Palin, Agent Johnson.
McCain's 72 with a history of melanoma.
Palin warrants careful scrutiny as the person who would sit in the Oval Office if McCain is elected then becomes ill.
The fact that she is shameless enough to state that "Obama has been palling up with Terrorists" is exactly the sort of conduct which deserves intense, critical examination. -
Anybody else have a problem with Palin referring to regular working people as Joe Six-Pack? To me that's a pejorative. Joe Six-Pack makes me think of of an overweight middle-aged man who hasn't shaved in days, wears overalls and drinks beer and argues with his wife while his 7 children who don't have college funds are on the ground being chubby little clones of ol' dad. Obama calls these "Joes" working people/ Working families. That's much better sounding.
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The media is TRYING to get Straight Answers from Palin - She's the one that has gone evasive and disingenuous and generalized in her availability, comments and policy statements.
Which I would say, barely a month before the actual election, and after her brazen Mayberry-On-Steroids entrance, is an issue that should itself stand out as an item worth the attention of the media, and should be covered per it's worthiness....
Palin & the Republican braintrust seem to be trying to convince everybody that their ad campaign can conceal not only the fact that she's a lightweight, but also the concurrent realization that John McCain can't be trusted to make smart decisions about important issues - Which is not a good vibe to have spreading uncontrollably through the electorate in the middle of an economic catastrophe..
......Or, as an "Independent", are you just sore because the Big Bad Media didn't pay enough attention to Ron Paul's opinion about the VP debate? -
I saw a documentary about his wife's murder. The big revelation in it was his "alleged" involvement in a Drugs cartel in mexico. According to a man who went down manfacturing, distribution, Dealing and selling in narcotics and who now resides in LA prison said he sold drugs to OJ, Nicole and Ron Goldman. Nicole was living the highlife and was being very open about this, word got back to the cartels boss, He gave this guy his orders to shut Nicole up. to make a long story on the night of the murder. Ron Goldman Turned up . goldman new this guy and a fight broke out. Goldman was stabbed many times and his throat was cut from ear to ear. there was a loss of blood. But crucially when they fought that bloody fight, this guy who went down for his narcotic activity left two bloody imprints on the back goldmans shirt. it were not admitted as evidence. Goldman dialled Nicoles number, she got there and put up one hell of a fight. But she too had her throat slit from ear. The BBC doc showed her dead body. She died a horrific death. The Documentary in question was an investigation into the whole thing by a PI. This cartel had links to the LAPD. The Murder scene was a bloodbath. I believe that OJ was a Narco Criminal. For that reason he should have gone to Jail. Cartels have friends in high places. and the FBI believed they had thier man and arrested him on a AandB charge. I dont doubt that OJ a piece of trash. But LAPD knew all about OJ links to a drug cartel. and sat on that file. There is more than meets the eye to the story. He may have beaten is wife black and blue. But that Narcotics angle deserves to be looked at. OJ was trying to flee the country. hence the false beard, 150,000 dollars and the false passports. Fbi were trying to prevent him from leaving the country. He is going to Jail. The juice aint going nowhere.
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Al Gore is a bit stiff, he's too robotic, he's not the candidate I want to have a beer with.
Never mind the fact he's been Vice President for 8 years, a Senator before that, has done a huge amount of work in other areas of government.
No, let's go for the other guy who had a job for 6 years where it was actually the Lieutenant Governor who actually ran things, had minimal actual experience, ran every previous enterprise into the ground and needed to be bailed out - are we really surprised at how things turned out?
So never again. Let's scrutinise absolutely everything we can about the people running before it's too late. Not yet convinced that relatively speaking, the Republican ticket is far more wanting than the Democratic one. -
"Not yet convinced that relatively speaking, the Republican ticket is NOT far more wanting than the Democratic one."
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Sorry, I think this one is more apropos than the other one I posted. Palin uses the royal "we" here, too:"Of course, we know what a vice president does. And that's not only to preside over the Senate and we'll take that position very seriously also. I'm thankful the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate and making sure that we are supportive of the president's policies and making sure too that our president understands what our strengths are. John McCain and I have had good conversations about where I would lead with his agenda. That is energy independence in America and reform of government over all, and then working with families of children with special needs. That's near and dear to my heart also. In those arenas, John McCain has already tapped me and said, that's where I want you, I want you to lead. I said, I can't wait to get and there go to work with you."
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There is one song that I have been thinking. apart from the mighty Television drug of the nation. the other song is Rem's bad day. Here are said Lyrics. Stipey can be a bit of a bore sometimes. These lyrics are higly relevant....
A public service announcement followed me home the other day.
I paid it nevermind. Go Away.
Shits so thick you could stir it with a stick-free Teflon whitewashed presidency.
We're sick of being jerked around.
Wear that on your sleeve.
Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
We're sick of being jerked around.
We all fall down.
Have you ever seen the televised St. vitus subcommittee prize
Investigation dance? Those ants in pants glances.
Well,look behind the eyes.
It's a hallowed hollow anesthetized
"save my own ass, screw these guys"
smoke and mirror lock down.
Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
The Papers wouldn't lie!
I sigh, Not one more.
It's been a bad day.
Please don't take a picture.
It's been a bad day.
Please.
We're dug in deep the price is steep.The auctioneer is such a creep. The lights went out, the oil ran dry.
We blamed it on the other guy
Sure, all men are created equal.
Heres the church, heres the steeple
Please stay tuned-we cut to sequel
ashes, ashes, we all fall down.
Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
Ignore the lower fear
Ugh, this means war.
It's been a bad day.
Please don't take a picture.
It's been a bad day.
Please.
Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
We're sick of being jerked around.
We all fall down.
It's been a bad day...
-
Oct 05, 2008 11:11:19 AM CDT
WATCH THIS IMPASSIONED SPEECH ON RACE FROM UNION PRESIDENT
by bringingsexyback
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIGJTHdH50
-
complete rubbish. Homosexuality does not equate to incest. I'm disgusted at you making that link. It's spurious, inflammatory and fallacious.If 2 people (non related) are in a stable, loving relationship and want to get married, then why do you care? You're a racist and a homophobe. That is obvious.
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