Ain't It Cool News (www.aintitcool.com)
Coaxial

HEROES
Schmeroes!!

I am – Hercules!!
I have just a few more questions, then I think I'm done. SPOILERS FOR TONIGHT'S EPISODE AHEAD ... The Haitian continues to cancel powers. Hiro and Ando continue to follow Daphne. (Can’t blame them for that!) In a cinema, Hiro seems to learn she’s doing this for money. Did Daphne not make that clear last week? “I should never have given you up for adoption,” Angela tells Sylar. Noah is partnered with Sylar, who pretends to be an FBI man at the site of a bank robbery. Sylar bashed in brains with a rock last season; now that he has superpowers again, why is he suddenly trustworthy? At the site of the bank robbery, FuturePeter retrieves PresentPeter, leaving Noah to fend for himself. Why did Peter put Peter inside a prisoner with superpowers? Why doesn’t he recapture Sylar and punish him for what he did to Claire? Why does he leave Noah in such a fix? Why does he care what happens to Claire but not her adopted dad? Claire’s biological mom smokes. And Claire doesn’t want to go to school. Claire wants to fight. When the flames suck out all the air in the box, why doesn’t Claire’s mom have difficulty breathing? Matt sees more paintings. And learns his future has changed. And learns he can see the future too. But doesn’t seem too concerned about phoning in what he knows about Peter killing Nathan. Tracy, who looks like Jessica and Niki, freezes a flower. Video from the Corinthian Hotel is played for Nathan. She also meets Micah and learns she and Niki were born in the same hospital on the same day. Dr. Zimmerman announces he created Tracy. Did Micah ever get D.L.’s medal back? Is Monica out in the car? Four superhumans rob a bank with flaming hands and telekinesis. Good thing Peter shot Nathan to death to keep him from revealing to the world that there are people with superpowers! Noah announces he’ll kill Sylar as soon as he can learn Sylar’s weakness. Too bad Noah wasn’t there when Elle incapacitated Sylar with her lightning powers! I asked in talkback last week why Peter doesn’t just zip back a couple days and zap Sylar with Elle-lightning --before Sylar could open Claire’s skull and steal her self-healing power. It’s what I would do if I had Peter’s powers. Save the cheerleader, save the world, right? One thing I wouldn’t do is wander back to my apartment and string a bunch of yarn across my living room. At least one talkbacker suggested Peter won’t go back two days to save Claire because he knows the past can’t be changed. Does that make any sense? If the future can’t be changed, then why wasn’t New York vaporized as it was in one of Hiro’s earliest flash-forwards? The fact that New York was saved also, I think, renders pretty silly Hiro’s decision to never again travel back to the past. He could effortlessly trap speedster Daphne that way, couldn’t he? We’ve seen many times in the movies that one can tell smart superhero stories; why does “Heroes” seem to insist so strenuously that we turn off our brains?

NOW!!

$13.49 Dawn of the Dead!! $13.95 Road Warrior!! $13.95 A Clockwork Orange! $13.95 The Fugitive! $14.95 The Shining!! SuperCheap Blu-Ray!!

Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus
    + Expand All
  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Heroes just plain sucks

    by BrowncoatJedi

    Why do some people still apologize for this crap?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Ando

    by Alientoast

    At least Ando finally revealed in this episode that his power is being awesome. The big question I have this season: Why didn't Hiro's smart sister take over the company? The boy has some serious airhead issues this year...

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:32 p.m. CST

    by Johnny the tackling alzheimers patient

    Has last year carried over to this year? I think it's been pretty decent so far. Slow start I guess. Or just no trust in Jeph Loeb anymore lulz...

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:33 p.m. CST

    seems the hiatus didn't help writing

    by aboriginal

    This one could turd out real fast. And I thought Fringe sucked bad.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:33 p.m. CST

    I agree Browncoat

    by MrInsidious

    This show has laid an egg since the beginning of the second season. It's almost as if Kring and co. had years to come up with good stuff but never planned for it to go beyond season one. Even the premise of villains is tarded because they are dumbing down Sylar. He's becoming the plucky sidekick. If this show does'nt pull it's head out of it's ass soon it's all over ladies and gents. I for one hope that it al least inspires another network to tackle this genre, albeit better and much smarter than Heroes has done the last season and a quarter. Kring you like Milli Vanilli are a one hit wonder.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:34 p.m. CST

    The show is just spinning its wheels

    by Alpo Jones

    I feel that most of the plot twists are kind of random and unmotivated. In the first season it became clear that we were in the beginning of a story-arc and there would be a middle and an end. In season 2 and currently in S3 the show is just going from one convoluted superhero-infused soap opera scenario to another.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:37 p.m. CST

    I remember when the Heroes producers mocked Lost

    by Alpo Jones

    Around episode 15 in fall 2006 you would hear reports of panels where Tim Kring would talk about how unfortunate it was that Lost 'Didn't provide enough answers.' There was this feeling that Lost had dropped the ball and jumped the shark and had betrayed its fans. Now, this is the case with Heroes. The show is just as Lost and Lost.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Finally the world has caught up with me.

    by greenstyle92

    For years, I was the lone voice in the wilderness crying that heroes sucks while everyone else was rushing to suck it's dick. Finally herc realizes it's not as smart as he thought it was.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Alpo jones, the first season was the same way.

    by greenstyle92

    Matt has a partner he sees with her own eyes and believes he has powers, then suddenly declares he's full of shit and walks away. Jessica's husband is a dangerous fugitive on the run, then suddenly it's fine for him to go out in public and work a regular job. Hiro and Ando's story was about their journey to New York and there expierences, then the show is like "fuck that" and skips them to new york. And nathan petrelli commonly forgets he's got kids. Fuck, Heroes aint never been good.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Herc - You are Just a Heroes Hater - Own Up to It!!

    by blhotz

    Herc your questions make less sense than the show. I've read a lot of your past critizism and they are almost always "answered" in the next (or soon after) episode. Heroes is about people. Sometimes people don't make sense <--- THAT is REAL. That episode was great! Here's some "talkback" for those that still believe Heroes often doesn't make sense: Issue: Why didn't Claires Mom suffocate? Answer: Because she wasn't breathing as heavily as Claire who was obviously under A LOT of stress (mental and physical) ...Heroes Haters pwned! Try again.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Sad

    by picardsucks

    Fucking thing is that the show has all the elements to be great like an all star team that blows on gameday Oh well Shatner is back on Boston Legal tonight

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Since My Post Was Cut Off...

    by blhotz

    Maybe it's the Heroes Haters who aren't smart. How can you critics missed Claire's situation (mental and physical). She was obviously breathing harder than her Mom. Geez... take off the Heroes hate-blinders please.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Oxygen in the box...

    by MisterE

    Herc, Claire's mom didn't burn all the oxygen in the box. She was talking about torture techniques like waterboarding and convinced Claire that she was suffocating.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Oh, and ...

    by greenstyle92

    Horn rimmed glasses guy's wife is getting cancer, but nah, forget about that, that was a bad idea, never mention it again. Noah has undergo a total mind wipe and forget all about claire to protect her, but then nah, it wasn't really a mind wipe. Claire has a best friend at school who was mind wiped and she had to rebuild her friendship with him, but nah, forget that guy. <br> <br> Heroes is all about the "big twist" and soap-y revelling, but rarely follows up on any of it or has it signify. The show shit loose ends. The show slides by because it's good at making things seem more complicated than they really are. It's a bullshit show. Lost aint perfect either, but it aint near as bad as Heroes. Heroes is and always has been full of shit.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:48 p.m. CST

    since the season 1 finale ...

    by heroic_duo

    This show has sucked serious ass. Alpo Jones nailed it. The only thing good about this season is that we haven't heard, "Mi hermano! Mi hermano!" yet.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:52 p.m. CST

    The answers to your questions is simple

    by Z 008

    Peter is a GIANT dumbass. and I can't wait to see Elle and HRG team up

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Fire mom "tortured" Claire...

    by MisterE

    Claire's mom took advantage of Claire's agitated state and convinced her that she was suffocating when, in fact, she wasn't. Fire mom even apologized in a later scene for tricking Claire.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Heroes - X-Men (Summers Brothers)

    by pravusdeus53

    Hey I just sent this to Harry but has anyone noticed more then just the mutant connections? Im noticing a huge Summers Brothers connection. Nathan is Cyclops, not the greatest power but the born leader. Peter is Havok, Sylar is Vulcan. Nikki was Jean Grey, she died ... that makes Tracy Madeline Pryor. Im not too familiar here but doesnt Alex/Havok get transposed somehow and comes across someone he already knew Vulcan then finds out their brothers and the two sort of convince each other to join each other. Vulcan craves getting more power just like Sylar. Notice also the Summers brothers always thought there father was dead and then bam he comes back at a very important spot. Am I the only one seeing this?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10 p.m. CST

    what happened?

    by zooch

    How did it get all confusing? It almost feels like they stopped taking it seriously.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:02 p.m. CST

    "Heroes is about people. Sometimes people don't make sense."

    by TequilaMocking

    In the history of the world, no one has ever come up with a more asinine excuse for a bad show. Honestly, here's a challenge, try and find a person dumber on the internet than "bholtz." That excuse would apply if this was a reality show. Do you realize these are fictional created characters? Palin apologists have a lot in common with Heroes. They're the geek version of white trash Larry the Cable Guy fans.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:03 p.m. CST

    GUESS WHAT?

    by The InSneider

    This show sucks balls and you all suck balls for caring about it. Face it... Heroes isn't fit to be a zit on Lost's ass.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Um.....what?

    by F-18

    I read that whole thing and all I saw was "blah, blah, blah, I don't a give a shit".

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:06 p.m. CST

    Also

    by F-18

    Heroes sucks.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:08 p.m. CST

    Boy this show sucks.

    by HoboCode

    Painful. Even worse then last season. Nothing. Makes. Sense.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:11 p.m. CST

    HERC

    by HoboCode

    Instead of this shit, how about a Fringe TB? Please.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Flawed from the start...

    by Mal Carne

    If there are two "superpowers" that can get you into immense trouble when you're writing superhero stuff, it's time travel and the guy who has everybody else's powers. These tow things guarantee writing headaches no matter what.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Heroes is fun....

    by Russman

    Haters go somewhere else, christ.... to think you spend time and energy to watch a show you don't like and then to come online, enter a user name and password and compose a message - why?? Go the fuck away, write about a show you like. God damn, fucking children.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Heroes = WWE

    by buffywrestling

    Face turns, heel turns, swerves, false tags, jobbers. At least wrestling has sweaty, half naked men. Maybe Freddie Prinze jr should start writing for Heroes?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Sucks

    by PornKing

    Some of my favorite shows are going down the tubes. Heroes has officially sunk to crapdom, and I recently had to de-list Prison Break this season, which I thought was a great show the first 3 seasons.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Not jumping off yet but....

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    The time travel stuff has really convuluted this show. <p> Unless time control has an aspect of non-controllable ala Journeyman, the questions will always be asked, why couldnt they have chosen a more appropriate time. <p>

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:37 p.m. CST

    haven't read shit...

    by BadMrWonka

    but then again, I'm drunk...<p>Pennsy, I'm about to post my photo, I'm still playing poker, WHUT WHUT!!!?!?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Tonight's was better than either of last week's ones...

    by Pennsy

    But it still has a way to go to get back the 'can't-wait for the next episode vibe that I had at the end of almost every season 1 outing.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST

    this is Wonka

    by BadMrWonka

    http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=glassesur2.jpg <p> I play online poker to win, kiddos...12 minutes to Heroes, my time...I need to sober up big time!!! drugs are bad.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Why do you guys watch this show if you don't like it?

    by Dreadlock Holmes

    Geez, get a ife and let those of us who enjoy it discuss it. That goes to you to Herc.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST

    They can't paint within the lines

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    that they themselves established<p> They're all over the place<p> Characters switch sides as the wind blows<p> I'm betting Kring is spewing the overall plot and the writers go: you established that couldn't be done. Kring spews back: now I say it can.<p> This is like really bad fanfic

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:44 p.m. CST

    I aint watching this show any more and these writeups

    by drturing

    make it sound totally unwatchable and nonsensical.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:44 p.m. CST

    "He put the top of my head back on and left me there."

    by SpanksterOfLove

    This one line, delivered by Claire during this season's 2nd episode, has made me officially give up on "Heroes". It sucks, I'm done.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:45 p.m. CST

    I don't think I like what they've planned for Elle...

    by Pennsy

    http://tinyurl.com/4mr8ft.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Needs Limits And Rules

    by Rimjob

    There has to be limits and rules introduced for some of the powers (Time Travel & the Healing Factor being the two biggest story problems), otherwise you get what you have now; people scratching their heads trying to fill the plot holes. For one thing, it would be nice if they would have a story-arc where time travel was not a big part of it. Lacking that, there has to be LIMITS AND RULES TO THE TIME TRAVEL. In the first season they sorta did that with Charlie (the waitress with eiditic memory). The Universe, God, or whatever wouldn't let Hiro save Charlie & change the timeline. And the Hiro storyline this season is beyond stupid. Leaving aside the fact that the writers have made Hiro and Ando idiots that are basically creating a problem, Hiro is supposed to have complete mastery over Time. If he freezes time, how in the hell is Ms. Flash still able to move at all? Can someone fluent in DC Comics tell me if Barry Allen or Wally West could manipulate time through the Speed Force? They also need to do something about Claire's magic blood, and make it where the healing factor only applies to the character that already possesses the power, and no longer something that can be transferred with a transfusion. The writers of "Heroes" have written themselves into a corner where the characters aren't ever really in danger, since Time Travel or a blood transfusion from the cheerleader can make everything alright.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Yeah am with you Mal

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    Peter and Hiro - too much <P> Are there any great superheroes of all time (like Superman, Batman, Spiderman etc) that have the powers of Peter and Hiro and have lasted the distance ?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:51 p.m. CST

    I forgot this was on tonight...

    by AstroNerdBoy

    ...but it really sounds like "Heroes" writing has become too clever by half. I'll have to check out the episode on the website when it shows up there but I think the show has derailed itself, especially with the time travel.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Corinthian Hotel?

    by Unbirthday

    Wasn't the hotel in season one the Montecito from NBC's Las Vegas? Are they going to explain the name change?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 10:58 p.m. CST

    I couldn't agree more Herc

    by nicegoogly

    The writers painted themselves in a corner by giving such HUGE powers in the first season. As if the time travel reset button wasn't abused enough, we get reverso serum from Claire's blood. How about what they did with the Cerebro girl, Molly? She is conveniently missing from the show so no one can use her ability. They threw her in at the end of the first season to make a bad guy scarier than Sylar seem scarier. If I hear another "Let's see Dark Claire" request, I will shoot my self in the brainstem to prevent my regeneration. Claire is every bit as one dimensional as her character seems to cramp about every season. Twin Nikki? Fuck me. I was so happy when Nikki fuckin' died. Her storyline made the first season drraaggg on. DL was cool and heroic and they fuckin' killed him...twice. They tried to make up for the twin Nikki immediately by showing her in her underwear. That did soften the blow, I must admit. Season 2, Peter has amnesia and is out of the plot for a bit. Season 3, Peter is put into another body for a bit and is out of the plot for a bit. Exiled, this time, by his future self who fails the multiple choice test of using the right power at the right time. We also need to understand something, Tim Kring was responsible for Surface for Christ's sake. After that poor excuse for a SciFi original movie, they decided to have him helm a show about Superheroes. He, without a doubt, cribs from every major comic book, and now outright stealing from the Cronenberg's The Fly, claims to have never read/stole from these sources. Syler as a quasi good guy? You can't do that to a major villian until he has his comeuppance. There has yet to be a fantastic major showdown. Let's now think about the squandered opportunity with the finale from Season 1. Peter and Sylar are great adversaries that are unmatched by anyone else in the show. Let them go toe to toe. Peter, technically, should be kicking his ass since he can absorb everyone's powers and everything Syler has, thus giving him a greater number of powers. I could keep going on with the complaints, which fuckin' sucks since it has great potential. Two things need to happen right now: 1. Peter is your main character. Give him more screen time, show him training from time to time with his powers to master them. He is bad ass, let him be bad ass. 2. Stop making Hiro such a moron. He was great at "I want to be a hero." thing. However, stop making him as big a fuck up as Peter. I think they should have reversed the titles on the Heroes posters in the Subway. The Heroes and Villians title is above the wrong sets of characters.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:08 p.m. CST

    good opening!

    by BadMrWonka

    good pacing...<p>maybe I'm behind, since I'm on the west coast, but as of 0:08, I like it....

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Hiro

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    For me and the wife we were huge fans of Hiro in Season 1, his power is kind of cool and interesting but it was his personality, the geek that became something more and became a hero. An example of him being a geek and getting excited when he saw his future self with a katana (samurai sword). <p> Season 2, was pretty bad for me in respect of Hiro, I am a huge fan of medieval Japan (as some would be able to pick up from my name), and that was so embarassing and not fun at all. <p> Now season 3 starts off with him acting like a complete idiot, a bimbo even, am hoping his character improves over the season, but the recent track record ain't good. <p> Maybe I am expecting too much of this show. Its not like this is BSG or Lost or Dexter.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:15 p.m. CST

    buffywrestling, Swerves?

    by UMAGA

    Sounds more like TNA.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:17 p.m. CST

    The best character is clearly HRG /Noah

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    And he is the one without powers, the Batman of the show. <p> Very interesting and always great acting by Coleman.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:22 p.m. CST

    TNA, WWE, Heroes

    by buffywrestling

    It all becomes the same when the devices are overused with no pay off.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:22 p.m. CST

    They lost it

    by aversiontherapy2

    As others have said they need to establish a solid set of rules and follow them. If you're going to have time travel control it, don't make up convenient excuses, it's annoying and insulting. The first season was tight, since then it's just been all over the frickin' place.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:23 p.m. CST

    The Problem(s) With Heroes

    by Wrath4771

    My biggest beef with Heroes is Peter and Sylar. The two are pretty much invincible and render everyone else inconsequential. Get rid of these two and show us "Heroes" with singular powers working as teams or against each other. No more Peter will save us garbage. Second, and the biggest sin is Heroes never should have dealt with time travel. Looking into the future I don't have a problem with, but once a character and characters start traveling back and forth then it's too easy to catch yourself in paradoxes and situations that make no sense. Fix these problems and the show has a chance - otherwise they are just digging a deeper grave. Oh and Fringe sucks donkey balls. X Files at its worst was better than Fringe.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:28 p.m. CST

    What People aren't even noticing

    by LargoJr

    Syler was supposed to be a disgusting monster.. he was EATING peoples brains.. hence the entire "Save the Cheerleader, save the World" theme from season one. If Syler wouldnt, or in fact COULDN'T kill Clair, and only poke around then leave.. the entire first season becomes pointless suffering and horseshit. I know WHY it changed. The guy who plays Syler is in the new Star Trek, and audiences have a REALLY tuff time not associating one character with another. They HAD to make him less disgusting and hate-able.. or it would have royally fucked his Spock character thru simple guilty association. Once again.. I absolutely HATE this show.. and STILL think dear old dad needed to beat Clair till she forgot how to shit the SECOND she started her whole "I need to be free to be ME" crap.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:29 p.m. CST

    And What I Want to See...

    by Wrath4771

    I want to see more of what was hinted at with Parkman in Season 2. I want to see good guys trying to do good but end up doing bad things - like Parkman pulling information out of Angela's head. It was done for the greater good, but once you start down that slope it's a slippery one. I'd like to see more of that. On the flip side I'd like to see a villain doing bad things but things that we as viewers would root for. Like Dexter - serail killer bad - but killing bad guys good. And Boston Legal blows goats now. Bring back Alan Shore - not the imposter that has been on the show for two and a half seasons.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:48 p.m. CST

    Peter's Irish girlfriend

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    Yeah...it bugs the HELL out of me that they dropped that whole plotline without a thought. If Peter REALLY cared about her, why didn't he try to go back to that future and retrieve her? And now that he's prevented that alternate timeline by destroying the virus, did she just vanish along with that potential future, or is it a Back To The Future deal where Michael J. Fox left Elisabeth Shue in the "alternate" 1985 in part II but then found her still sleeping comfortably on the same porch when he "fixed" the timeline in part III?

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:52 p.m. CST

    It's the hunger

    by Kneprock

    except I think I'm full

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:54 p.m. CST

    gone is first season's human touch

    by bacci40

    allow me to use a comic book analogy...garth ennis is one of my favs...he wrote a classic series, "preacher"...he has started on a new trek, which he calls "the boys" and he has said the boys will out preacher, preacher...in terms of sex, violence and gross out scenes, he is totally right...in terms of story and characters...he is dead wrong...in the boys, all the characters are two dimensional...in preacher, although the characters were drawn on a page...you cared about them....and this was how it was in season 1....you could care about the characters because they were more than what was shown on screen...season two, they all walked around like zombies, following some inane script...season 3 is even worse, for kring has totally thrown out the pretense that anyone in this show is human...he totally missed the point of why the fans revolted during season 2...and breaking every rule developed through years of sci-fi and fantasy stories aint no way to regain the exitement of season 1....hope all the actors have gigs lined up...this show dies at the midseason break

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:55 p.m. CST

    btw, how absurd is it that angela is sylar's mom

    by bacci40

    had some kid submitted this script to marvel or dc, it woulda ended up in the nearest circular file

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:55 p.m. CST

    The root cause is Bad Writing

    by veritasses

    Kring and his writers had more time, full support from NBC and a huge list (from the internet) of all the things they were doing wrong and they still couldn't do Heroes justice. They just don't belong in the superhero genre. Period. The show isn't going to be fixed by changing/eliminating characters, setting limits on powers or changing the story unless they first get rid of the people who put the words on the page. The stupid dialog, dumb characters, brain numbing flaws in logic, wasted use of hero powers, lame story arcs etc etc etc exist because of Kring and the bad writing. And it's a damn shame because this is a show - if successful - would lead to more/better geek shows. And it's also a show which easily has the potential to be a cash machine. A rare ratings monster. But it needs a new creative head leading good writers.

  • Sept. 29, 2008, 11:58 p.m. CST

    They should have made everyone's powers less reliable...

    by Bob Cryptonight

    Since they are trying to "fix" Season 2 problems, they should have invented some bullshit about how the greater the power the more concentration and focus it takes and guys like Hiro and Sylar aren't that focused. That way, they could have an out to explain all these stupid holes in the story that everyone is (rightfully) noticing and bitching about. The guys running this show are true hacks.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:02 a.m. CST

    Sounds like Heroes is suffering from prequelitis.

    by Amy Chasing

    Prequelitis (n) - a condition that any show may suffer when the audience is able to think up a better story than the show-runners do. First diagnosed in the Star Wars prequels, hence the name.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:06 a.m. CST

    greenstyle92...your critique doesnt hold water

    by bacci40

    the company took care of matt's partner...sent the haitian to her for a mini mind wipe...the company also took care of phase man's conviction...if you think that the tela novella twins experiences were boring, think about what it would be like watching hiro and ando bum around the united states...and petrelli knows he has kids, after he got crispy fried, he and the wife kinda broke up, as he went a little nutso...oh, and the claire's "gay" pal from school was written out of the show when he got the terminator gig (that shit happens) and i dont remember mrs horned rimmed glasses getting cancer...that was nuke man's wife...i think you are confused cuz she and nuke man are married in real life....this is not to excuse any of the bad writing...it really has become like a bad comic...something from the charlton era

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:10 a.m. CST

    the problem is no fuller

    by bacci40

    and the probles could all be fixed if kring is removed as show runner, and replaced by jms or whedon...preferably jms, who already knows where to go with the show, as it is partially based on rising stars

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:11 a.m. CST

    Heroes lost it season one finale

    by A for Aristocrat

    After that huge letdown Peter/Sylar fight everything after has been recycled season one. Tonight I was actually bored with the show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:11 a.m. CST

    "Sylar eats brains"

    by Pancho Straight

    was an internet fanboy invention and, as I recall, an AICN user name ID. Someone post a screen cap or cite an episode in which they showed or mentioned sylar eating brains.<p>I'll go first. Last week Claire asked Sylar "Are you going to eat my brain?' and Sylar replied "that's disgusting."<p.I think that the real source of all the heroes hate - that what's on the screen being written by pros isn't exactly whatever their fannish-fic fantasies are when they're engaging in auto-erotic self stimulation. "Oh boo hoo hoo, I thought Sylar was a two dimensional cartoon "big bad" and it turns out he's a complex character capable of changing and having more than one emotion. That's not how I imagined it so now I'll never watch Heroes again." GOOD!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:13 a.m. CST

    for the record...

    by maxwell's hammer

    I don't watch 'Heroes' regularly, mostly because its a bad show, but I come here and complain about it because I'm hoping to contribute to the negative momentum that will ultimately get it canceled.<BR> <BR> "Heroes" is like a little kid running around the yard with a blanket tied around his neck for a cape. A naive pretender.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:16 a.m. CST

    bacci40

    by maxwell's hammer

    While they're getting JMS and Joss Whedon, they should also get Brad Pitt, Dolly Parton, and Lassie to be the new stars.<BR> <BR> Like JMS or Whedon would soil themselves by touching this show. Pshaw.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Pancho Straight.. you're not looking at everything

    by LargoJr

    Why were the brains ALWAYS missing from Syler's victims.. If all he needed to do was poke around.. then nearly all of those folks COULD have survived... Syler had what he wanted from them... Brain eating was just too icky to really admit too.. and the story lets us work it out for ourselves. It was changed AFTER the fact for the reason I explained. And those doors Clair hid behind.. WTF??? I've accidentally leaned against ones just like them and they break. That ranks right up there with sprayed gunfire that doesn't hit the star running behind the bar rails upstairs but hits every bar they run past instead.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:39 a.m. CST

    Pancho Straight...the original sylar

    by bacci40

    was supposed to look alot like nosferatu...and he was supposed to absorb brains...pretty close to eating...that got changed when zack won the role

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:41 a.m. CST

    wow, that was a bad episode.

    by DrPain

    and the preview for next weeks didn't provide any hope.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:45 a.m. CST

    maxwell's hammer...come on

    by bacci40

    you are really telling me that if jms or whedon were given total creative control, they wouldnt jump at the chance to fix this walking disaster? here is another prob with the show...something that star trek learned early on...you hire sci fi writers to write the scripts...not dudes who have written for other types of dramas...go look at the best treks..all written by real sci fi guys....guys who understand and respect the canon....oh and largo is right...that whole, claire hiding in the closet bit was truly retarded...and why sylar didnt just kick down the door, or use his telekenetic powers to open every closet door in the house is beyond me...plus claire is the type of gal who looks like she wears a ton of perfume...she is the worlds mightiest midget

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:46 a.m. CST

    and how many times...

    by DrPain

    are they going to show that video of Niki and Nathan screwing?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:49 a.m. CST

    DrPain....until

    by bacci40

    we get to see a nip slip

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:55 a.m. CST

    They messed up, that's all...

    by ChezKing

    They simply buried themselves by over-convoluting the story. They simply messed up.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:57 a.m. CST

    So Tim Kring never read a comic?

    by Blackguard

    That explains SO much. Looks like the writers do though. A Hulk reference. They call the fast girl a "speedster" (ala Flash). They need to hire a comic book expert to explain what would happen when certain powers are used. Also to tell them what storylines have already been used. I'm SO glad they got that extra .0001 cent per dvd. They're going to need it.....

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:02 a.m. CST

    joe pokaski wrote tonites epi

    by bacci40

    which is why it plays like a bad comic...cuz that is what joe does...writes really bad comics...im amazed marvel still gives him work

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:12 a.m. CST

    sarah connor chronicles is getting worse too

    by DrPain

    Cameron cried. Terminators can't shed tears! And when she was sitting on that bed, why didn't it break?? This show is getting so full of plot wholes just as Heroes.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Future Hiro from Season One go back & kill Sylar

    by zooch

    Save the cheerleader yourself. Why go back and tell Peter to Save the Cheerleader, Save the World, when he could just go back and kill Sylar when he's a watchmaker. Oh wait, no one was this critical in Season One.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:21 a.m. CST

    They should have stuck to the original plan..

    by CeejayNightwing

    ..and ended the story with the first season, then begin the 2nd season with a new cast and new story, then so on again with the third season and another new cast and new story. All this stretching out the original cast and narrative beyond its natural conclusion has done is make a time story that's incestuously imploding on itself!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:22 a.m. CST

    Amy Chasing - SW v Heroes

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    Difference is we had 15 years to come up with better prequel stories etc compared to Lucas, Heroes has only been around for a couple of years. <p> Seriously Kring, did he have a plan besides a very high level one and did the comic guys give him good advice on what strylines etc to avoid.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:26 a.m. CST

    The big screw up

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    was not making hard rules and following them. Make a Bible and stick to it.<br> Example: Clair heals automatically. Peter absorbs Clairs power. Peter heals automatically after rescuing her from Sylar. Now we have future Peter with a scar. Peter should be unable to scar.<p>

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:29 a.m. CST

    Awesome!

    by 24hourbbq

    I think it's rad that Ando said that he was trying to be Awesome when he knocked out the Haitian. Just sayin'.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:33 a.m. CST

    Terminator > Heroes

    by Volllllume3

    Last nights episode was fucking AWESOME. Too bad it's going to get cancelled, sigh.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Terminator's getting cancelled?

    by Amy Chasing

    Now that's worthy of a talkback, and a petition. Terminator is pretty good and doesn't deserve cancellation yet. But if they cancel Chuck I'll be really mad.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:40 a.m. CST

    zooch....the time stuff is the one thing they have gotten right

    by bacci40

    future hiro learned early on that directly interfering with the past has consequences in the present, which is why he tries to get peter to do his dirty work...prob is, that doesnt work either, and the future still sucks...why, because no matter what they do, ultimately the supers will be hunted....despised, and the world will be shitty place to live in...mama petrelli realizes this, as she is saturn girl and gets to witness the future each time it changes...basically, we are witnessing the ultimate loop....which is really why they shouldnt have effed with the time travel thing to begin with

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Oh! Oh!

    by drew mcweeny

    Can I own up to it, blhotz? I think HEROES is fucking awful. I think it's been fucking awful since the start, and it's just now collapsing under the weight of the collective stupid. Based on the fervor the show caused, I watched both seasons all the way through, and I feel more than qualified to pronounce you hardcore fans completely desperate to put up with this drivel. Awful characters, blatant theft, and tortured plotting, and when even Herc starts turning on it, it sounds to me like the clock is ticking. Oh, please, oh, please, oh, please, HEROES, go the fuck away.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Agent Johnson! Brilliant idea...

    by onezeroone

    for a change Hiro/Peter sees a Utopian future but one where all with powers perished. In fact it's such a smart idea that we'll never ever get to see it on Heroes. If you ever write some Heroes episode, let me know... in case you aren't, you should (:

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Sylar's weakness is......

    by deadboy1313

    Mallomars. Sylar will do damn near anything for a box of Mallomars.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:47 a.m. CST

    mori....you have to agree with me...in the hands of someone else

    by bacci40

    it could be a good show...and come on....you have to admit, the stuff done by fuller during the first season was good...admit it....you cried at company man...you big pussy

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:51 a.m. CST

    A prediction how Sylar will die.

    by DrPain

    Sylar will die after going into Mohinder's brain or is injected with the artificial serum.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:55 a.m. CST

    DrPain...if sylar goes into mohinder's brain

    by bacci40

    he will die from boredom

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:56 a.m. CST

    Clock is ticking?

    by zooch

    On one of NBC's most popular shows? I doubt it. And Mori, Why are you so concerned if Heroes is still around? Why does it need to "go the fuck away?" You never liked it, so stop watching it. The show has many fans. Some people actually enjoy the show and like the characters. They don't care what you think and want the show to be on TV and continue to watch.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:59 a.m. CST

    bacci40.. time stuff???

    by onezeroone

    so you're trying to say that Future Hiro realized messing with time has consequences so decides not to do it himself but let Peter do it? Does it make a difference who messes with time? And if Hiro really thinks that someone else doing time bending would work out better, what does that make him? Dunno about you but makes him the dumbest superhero across all timelines and another example of shitty writing.<p>Unless, am having some comprehension issues here, and would love you to clear my confusion.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:02 a.m. CST

    ^forgot to add... in my book

    by onezeroone

    ...makes him the dumbest superhero across all timelines and another example of shitty writing...<p> in my book.<p>Need an edit button.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Oh and Miyamoto_Musashi,

    by Amy Chasing

    either way both shows aren't good. Star Wars because, as you say, Lucas had 15 years to get it right and didn't. Heroes because we're able to come up with better material off the top of our heads while the show's going.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:12 a.m. CST

    The second Sylar went after Elle

    by Maestro610

    in the premiere I had a sinking feeling in my stomach about her continuing on the show. Then for the second time in the series Elle defeated Sylar on her own. I know the first time was a weakened Sylar but this time he was even more powerful finally capturing Claire's invulnerability. She became the answer to the question that we all have asked, how do you beat Sylar? He even went so far in the premiere to suggest his evil tendencies were Elle's fault, presumably from shocking him over the years. He is vulnerable to her so what do they do? She is fired from the company so Angela can protect yet another of her misguided progeny. (Also, two out of three children that can absorb the powers of other superpowered people? Nathan got the short end of that stick.) This show is lazy. The answer to time travel is not super speed, Claire is purely kept around for ridiculous reasons, with, insert new reason to have her around every season. Fire doesn't burn without oxygen so even if her mother could choke both of them the fire on her hands would go out. I seem to be watching this show to see if I can find the moment of final implosion. I think Mohinder's chrysalis will probably be that point. Maybe all the Heroes will be trapped in the company building with a crying Maya or they'll take her back in time to cry on the day the company was founded. I think eliminating Claire previous to her powers being enabled is the only way to make this show workable again. (but then they'd have to get Adam/Kensei as well) So many plotholes... and not enough Hiro and Ando, or Kristen Bell to save this episode.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:18 a.m. CST

    onezeroone, i didnt explain myself well

    by bacci40

    in season one, future hiro appears only to give peter a clue, hoping that by not directly interfering with the past, his future will change and therefore, the present will not be a dytopia...that is what future hiro learns...however, it appears that peter is stupid in all realities (as noted by his recreating the string timelines) i mean the guy is just flat out stupid....the future cannot be changed...so the end result will be the dystopian present, no matter what they do...at least this is the logical conclusion to the show...but nothing has really gone along logically in this show, so maybe im just talking out of my ass...like wtf would future peter put present peter into the body of a super villian? why not into a postman...or better yet, a brunette with huge boobies...wonder how many kids mama petrelli has walking around...what a fucking slut...and at least kring did one thing right...he dumped the social commentary...this is a bad time to be preaching to people from the tv

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:18 a.m. CST

    Heroes needs a bailout package

    by nytivofan

    this episode's writing made me cringe. The new storylines are a complete joke. Virtually none of the characters behave consistently. Why is Hiro all of a sudden dumb? Why the hell is Sylar in a suit? The scene from next week's episode of Sylar playing homemaker in the Bennett kitchen? WTF?! Tom Kring-you're officially the M. Night Shyamalan of television.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:22 a.m. CST

    re: Terminator getting cancelled

    by Volllllume3

    Right now TSCC's ratings are shit, combine that with the fact that it's on FOX and you know this show is fucked. We'll be lucky if they don't pull the plug midway.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:22 a.m. CST

    It's better than it's ever been.

    by LordEnigma

    You would have to be a slick haired, overly tan, chubby stick of a man to not get this show. If you cannot figure out why things go the way that they do. You really should not claim people are desperate. When people like you are just... missing the point.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Why the hell is Sylar in a suit?

    by Pancho Straight

    His mother dresses him.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:28 a.m. CST

    fire burns oxygen...

    by Pancho Straight

    so if Claire's mom burned all the air, why didn;t her fire go out?<p>Let's try to explain that. Her fire didn't burn out and neither of them actually suffocated because there was still air in the room, in spite of Claire's anxiety attack.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:30 a.m. CST

    forget bionic woman

    by Pancho Straight

    Terminator: the Sarah Chronic Conicles is last years Knight Rider.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:31 a.m. CST

    FRINGE TALKBACK!

    by Pancho Straight

    I'm just thinking what everyone is saying.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:33 a.m. CST

    Fox should ax Bones, not Terminator.

    by Amy Chasing

    Bones hasn't been enjoyable since season 2.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:34 a.m. CST

    A few answers

    by zooch

    Why is Sylar suddenly trustworthy? He isn't.<br><br> Why did Peter put Peter inside a prisoner with superpowers? To get him out the way while he tries to fix things.<br><br> Why doesn’t he recapture Sylar and punish him for what he did to Claire? Why does he leave Noah in such a fix? Why does he care what happens to Claire but not her adopted dad? Future Peter is concerned with the bigger picture. He thought Nathan was the cause. But admitted he was wrong and that it's still happening, now Pete's still trying to figure out how to stop it.<br><br> Why doesn’t Claire’s mom have difficulty breathing? I doubt someone made of fire could be.<br><br> Why doesn't Parkman seem too concerned about phoning in what he knows about Peter killing Nathan? Didn't see a phone.<br><br>Did Micah ever get D.L.’s medal back? Is Monica out in the car? Don't know, don't care.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:40 a.m. CST

    Here's what fucking annoys me.

    by LordEnigma

    Motherfuckers not shaking their heads right. Claire and the Petrellis are descendents of Kensei. So... duh... this is why Claire cannot die. Does anyone else notice these things? Another thing that bothers: Noah wants to kill Gabriel. Unfortunately for him; he does not have an electrical transformer stashed in his brain. So it would not be that easy to take on Sylar. Unless Noah is able to harness electricity without killing himself. If you have a problem with a fast person being referred to as a "speedster". Go read Black Summer. The fast GUN in that comic is referred to as a "SPEEDSTER." Also; if you fucking read one fucking DC come in your entire life. You would realize that Barry Allen was so fucking fast. He moved faster than time. The Speedster is so fast. Hiro cannot stop her. This is how Barry Allen rolls. PAY FUCKING ATTENTION!. Finally; Peter does not listen. He's so fixated on doing what needs to be done. He misses the BIG PICTURE. He's the Jon Horus of this fucking story. His mom even pointed this out to him last week. Oh yeah; Future Peter has the scar for a reason. He keeps it on his face. Duh. So fucking pay attention before you state stupid shit online, Herc. If I can beat you. Anyone can beat you. DO NOT PLAY.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:45 a.m. CST

    Mori

    by DerLanghaarige

    I saw only Season 1 so far and while it was most of the time boring as hell and would have worked much better as 3-4 part miniseries, I wouldn't call it THAT awful, but I really appreciate that someone like you, who has some "authority" is brave enough to say his negative opinion about Heroes out loud.<br> Now I just wish someone would do the same with Battlestar Galactica, because this is 3 times as awful as you think that Heroes is. (Does this sentence make even sence? I just got up and had a bad night and an even worse day, so I don't even try.)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:50 a.m. CST

    Mohinders serum

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    may be a way to fix a few problems.<p> Say you give it to a person who already has powers and it *resets* them.<br> They lose their previous powers and develop a completely new power.<p> Peter and Sylar would no longer be able to absorb powers and be reset with with a single new power.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:58 a.m. CST

    now that i bitched and moaned, i watched it again

    by bacci40

    things i liked...marlo being bad ass...sale getting work through the new painter...how sylar got the fire power explained...nicki possibly being a clone (so they arent ripping off crazy jane, they are ripping off the spidey clone saga)the bank robbery being a ruse to get hrg to the bank...nathan reading a bible, which is bringing heroes back to season 1's biblical roots...i still cant get past milo's inability to act his way out of a paper bag tho

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:07 a.m. CST

    Heroes is in a big heap of trouble

    by Toby___Wong

    I wonder if the writers can get out of it. For the time being I won't waste my time on Heroes. Time has become to valuable. I never thought I would say that about Heroes after I saw the first season. It's time for a Heroes massacre a la mutant massacre. Only Noah, Elle and Ando should survive.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:18 a.m. CST

    Melvin_Pelvis, You are dead on . .

    by Mundungus

    I think that the writers are hamstrung by edict from Kring, who seems to want to paint with broad strokes according to his formulas. He is truly overwriting the established story, which has been greatly overwritten already. <p> Heroes is more palatable if one doesn't look for continuity too hard. They are just setting up character confrontations and action scenes, setting up scenarios where established characters can flaunt established powers. The big picture is very hodge podge, but the series can be enjoyed on an episode by episode level, at least by myself and many others. <p> But damn doesn't this show piss some people off. <p> I have no illusions that it is a great show, But I can enjoy it more than 95% of network shows, so I by no means want it to go away. I think that a few episodes have been very good and I'd like to see the show get better. It has potential every week.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:23 a.m. CST

    LordEnigma....what are you on about?

    by bacci40

    there isnt one coherent thought in your post...

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:37 a.m. CST

    This show is such a convoluted mess now...

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    I sit and watch but don't feel engaged with this season so far, 3 episode into it. So much is going on, yet, astoundingly, I feel bored. Maybe NBC should end this series after the "Villains" arc ends in Episode 13.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 4:40 a.m. CST

    LordEnigma

    by billypilgrimisunstuck

    is almost as funny as pretty ricky, late night special. ottoman humping giggolos

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 4:57 a.m. CST

    time travel is a bitch

    by bronsonbronson

    so... does anyone think it a little strange that peter travels back in time and has continuous physical contact with his former self. yet hiro can repeatedly go back and forth through time, in the same time mind you, and not see another version of himself. i think a great way to "shocking ending!" the first episode would have been to have hiro go back and just travel back in time into himself with a big masi oka explosiong. and i've tried the "hiro MOVES time, not THROUGH time" idea, and i don't buy it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:01 a.m. CST

    DerLanghaarige??

    by masteryoda007

    Battlestar is the best show on TV at the moment, Sho nuff! (Apart from The Shield) What is your favourite TV show? Desparate Housewives? Greys Anatomy?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:11 a.m. CST

    Mori, would ya please give SUPERNATURAL another shot?

    by Shermdawg

    I don't know if you've avoided it since mentioning it in one of your dvd columns a few years back, but it has become one of best shows around. It's MUCH better than Heroes, and quite a few shows that get talkback space here at AICN. Which is sad, because for a site that at it's core is targeted at the geek in all of us, the show, the real spiritual successor to The X-files (not Fringe) doesn't get ANY recognition around here besides the the countless posts of praise from talkbackers. You, Herc, and even Harry are missing out. Hell, even Vern would probably get a kick out it. It's hands down the best sci-fi show on network tv right now. (keywords: right now)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:20 a.m. CST

    Masteryoda

    by DerLanghaarige

    If you mean with "best show on TV" a show with amateurish camerawork ("documentary"-cam doesn't have to look clueless. Just watch 24 or [on a much bigger scale] Children Of Men), bad actors (Except Edward James Olmos!), shameless 9/11-exploitation in the disguise of a silly-70's-show-remake*, so that the producers can say: "Look how smart we are! We took TV-Trash from the 70's and made it about 9/11, just in space!" and stories that consist of the most popular (anti-)warmovie cliches and ST:Voyager-ish stuff like: "We let the president slowly die from cancer, but when she is almost dead, we let them discover that Cylon blood can cure cancer!"<p> *I'm not one of these guys who yell stuff like "Cloverfield is too soon", but when you make a post-9/11-show, then you shouldn't go for the SciFi-angle and go every episode like: "Get it? It's 9/11, winkwinknudgenudge."

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:23 a.m. CST

    ...then, yes, it's the best show.

    by DerLanghaarige

    I got distracted and hit the post-button too early. Sue me.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:30 a.m. CST

    OK what do you watch that is better?

    by masteryoda007

    Let me know what you think is better TV show DerLanghaarige? I am still keen to find out what you watch

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:58 a.m. CST

    Classic Simpsons Butterfly Effect episode proves

    by EvilWizardGlick

    The Simpsons covered repeated time travel to the past in one of the treehouse of horror episodes. <p> Everytime Homer went back he changed something so the future was different. <p> But if future Peter returns again he will cross paths with pastfuture Peter shooting Nathan. <p> Are we looking for a Primeval season two ending with a room full of future Peters representing different timelines arguing about what is best?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:04 a.m. CST

    The only character worth a damn is HRG

    by The McPoyle Clan

    and as someone already pointed out, he's the only one without a power...for now, unless they decide to screw him up, too. Company Man is no doubt the best episode this show has produced. When are they going to put Parkman out of his misery? Poor schmuck was worthless, got a purpose, and is back to being worthless again.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:07 a.m. CST

    I watch this show and hate myself

    by Itchy

    How can they possibly take something awesome like super heroes and make them so retarded. I find it painful to watch this crap .... but I can't stop myself. Who the fuck would let Sylar live, let alone try to "work" with him ? What the fuck kind of scientist tests a genetic theory by injecting himself with some virus ? Who the fuck casts Ali Larter in anything ... she's terrible ? The only thing that can save this show is a totally new writing staff and a 20 minute fully nude lesbo scene with Kristen Bell and Jessalyn Gilsig.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:11 a.m. CST

    Nobody complaining about black issac?

    by Supermans

    Now that may sound like a racists comment, but you all know better.. Is the writing that bad that since they killed off Isac, they can simply bring back another painter with exactly the same powers. I don't care if he's black, white or yellow by the way it doesn't matter.. Next episode they will probably have multiple people flying around in the future and it is a future that looks like crap.. The future episode in Season 1 where Sylar and Peter are about to fight in the end was classic.. We needed more of that rivalry, any fan would have attested to that. In fact, the last episode of season 1 could have been so much better had peter and sylar fought for a few minutes more.. Well, If I was writing the show, it wouldn't be in such a mess right now I can tell you that..

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:17 a.m. CST

    Urgh

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    This is aimed at everyone whose said Heroes has sucked since the end of S1. DON'T FUCKING WATCH IT. It's really simple. This post is courtesy of someone who does enjoy it, and doesn't watch shows he dislikes (cough - LOST - cough)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Showtime is aring Dexter at the same time....

    by j2talk

    watch that, its a better show....

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:44 a.m. CST

    Head. Wall. Bang.

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    No continuity? You had Angela mention that Sylar's adopted Mother collected figurines and that his Father repaired Watches - stuff the majority of you probably forgot (mostly because very few of you - and I include Herc in this - seem to pay attention to the show.) And for kicks and giggles, they're going back and trying to bring the Niki-Jessica-Tracy strands together. The entire thing is littered with continuity.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:48 a.m. CST

    Sylar and HRG should get a cop show

    by Dazzler69

    It was a great scene of them pretending to be FBI guys. I noticed people are pissed how character choose to use their powers, you have to remember that's one of the ideas of the show how everybody chooses to use their powers.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:04 a.m. CST

    Bones back in Form

    by lagomorph

    Loved the most recent Bones with Zack Lectering from the Looney bin. Plus, the case was really solid for once. There may yet be hope for Bones.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:10 a.m. CST

    I gave up on it after last week's episode

    by Sakurai

    I am very pleased to see Herc not let this show get a free pass. I think its time for the show to die.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:12 a.m. CST

    Now my brain hurts

    by indyjonez100

    From all the time travel loops but I have to agree with Herc, why not go back and zap Sylar before he has a chance to steal Claire's power. I guess they underestimate the intellect of the people watching this show. Come on, throw us a bone here. We are smarter then you think we are.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Threads I like

    by lagomorph

    Like many of you I thought the Jessnicka plot was the worst part of season one and possibly season two (though competition for that distinction is high) However, I like where the Tracey Strauss story is going and the payoff seems imminent. I also dig Sylar's arc this season because what some have failed to see is that he's got no need to rush. When he says he wants to "see where it goes" it's consistent with his character's almightiness. Even putting aside that he believes Angela is his adopted mother, the situation is beneficial for him: he gets to feed on powers, and try on the role of the hero for a change. Where's the downside?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Two Questions...

    by Hagakure

    ...The speed chick mentions in episode one that, because she is able to have a conversation with Hiro, it means that he isn't stopping time but just slowing it down. After which, she super-speeds away. If that is the case, when time is 'slowed' wouldn't she be running at the speed of a normal person instead of being able to speed away? Second, why the hell was Noah even released from prison to help out with the hostage situation? Granted, I know the writers want to get him back in the show, but all he did was walk into the bank and shoot the guy. Does he have his very own super-power that he is the only one capable of using a firearm?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Hagakure

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    1) Daphne, presumably, isn't terribly fast without her ability. 2) If you've read the Online Graphic Novels, Noah brought in both Knox AND Jesse, in addition to a good half a dozen other Villains. He's by far their best Agent, even if he causes them a lot of problems.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Noah

    by Hagakure

    I have no doubt Noah is good at what he does, I just thought (and again, this may just be exactly what is happening here in 'talkback' where the fans are out-thinking the writers of the show)when Noah was going to go into the bank, I thought we were going to see some brilliant Batman-esque strategy on his part where he is a non-super-powered person able to go up against a couple of super-powered foes and defeat them (using different strategies to figure out a way around their specific power). But, instead, he just pulls a weapon. Ah, maybe it is just the disappointment talking.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Hagakure

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I think we did, actually - go back to the scene before, where he tells Sylar 'not' to enter. Noah enters, and tries to lull the thugs into a false sense of security until JessePeter can activate his ability. When that doesn't work, he manages to stall until Sylar enters (Noah figuring the 'buffet bar' line would entice Sylar.) Sure there's a lot of possibilities for the plan to fail, but I think what we got was better than the standard talk-back 'Sylar runs in and gets PUNCHED through the chest by Knox... but Sylar's chest, like, it pushes the fist out... and he ELECTROCUTES Knox... only for Flint to set Sylar on fire, and as Sylar is running around SCREAMING, Noah shoots Flint in the face, and Flint spins, SETTING Jesse on fire.'

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:21 a.m. CST

    2 weeks in a row...

    by Mr. Profit

    I fell asleep watching this show. I'm not trying to be funny either. I really did. What gives? How can fan fiction be better than the stuff on screen? Shameful.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:28 a.m. CST

    The favorite show of der Langhaarige is

    by Toby___Wong

    Gute Zeiten, schlechte Zeiten, but it's still better than BSG. :-)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:30 a.m. CST

    BSG

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    It's a work of art... but it bores the ever loving shit out of me. I'm not saying it's a bad program, I'm just saying there's an emotional disconnect there that means that I struggle to enjoy a single second of the show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:34 a.m. CST

    SUPERNATURAL

    by Toby___Wong

    Why are so few people watching this badass show ? I have said it before and I will say it again: The Shield > Supernatural > any other show. And no, Supernatural is not a teeny show. There is none of that crap in there.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Supernatural

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    It's on my list.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:40 a.m. CST

    AMEN Moriarty!

    by HoboCode

    Not only this the worst show on television, it actually makes me angry that they fucked up the concept so badly. We will never see a good superhero tv show because of the stink left by this retched pile of teenybopper bullshit.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Lost?

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    While I dislike the show, I'm trying not to bash it. But I will never understand how people can criticise Heroes for ripping properties off, and ignore how much Lost has stolen from Watchmen... The Stand... and countless other properties.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:45 a.m. CST

    HoboCode

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    If you think this is the worst show on TV, you've lived a very sheltered life.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Moriarty, why did you keep watching it?

    by theycallmemrglass

    For 2 seasons if you didnt like it from the start? Perhaps because you hoped it would become a better show? Or were you forced to watch so that you can give an in-depth review of it? If so, where is that review, I'd like to read your analysis of it. I think Heroes is seriously seriously flawed for reasons mentioned by most TBers here. Story is way too convoluted, the time travel elements is grossly mis-used, our investment in characters seems to have been thrown back at us. But the show is still garnering big ratings. Why? Because we love Heroes season 1. Its been downhill since but we still watch it because we hope the show can reach the quality of season 1 again and we still watch it because it still offers some good stuff amongst the bad. Thats why I still watch it. Why did you continue watching it? Why do you wish ill of it, seeing that there is a worldwide fandom who dotes on it. I know you are responding to blhotz but we are all reading your post and what you said didnt sound rational (as if there is much of that here!)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Seems to me

    by Oomlot

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:15 a.m. CST

    Seems to me too

    by theycallmemrglass

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:17 a.m. CST

    I guess it really was all about Bryan Fuller

    by _Maltheus_

    <p>I thought that season 2 was just a misstep (albeit much better on second viewing), but this season has made it clear that NBC desperately needs to replace the entire creative staff of Heroes, right down to Tim Kring. This show is easily salvagable, but it'll never happen with the current crop of writers.</p> <p>It's amazing to me that no NBC exec realizes this and attempts to fix it given that millions are on the line. What does it say for their stupidity that pretty much everyone on these talkbacks are smarter than they are? I would trust that anyone here could come up with better, more coherent storylines. And that really is saying a lot. I guess the real question is, are the writers related to the execs, or are they just giving them blowjobs? Blackmail perhaps? How do complete morons get high paying jobs, whether in Hollywood or Washington or Wall Street? Until we figure out the answer to this question, human civilization is doomed.</p>

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Seems to me as well.

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:19 a.m. CST

    GAH

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Did Fuller do a great job on Heroes? Yes. But to assume every single good thing from S1 came from his pen is idiocy.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    grrr

    by Oomlot

    as I was about to say. It seems to me that a lot of people here watch the show to be antagonized by it. Personally I just sit back and enjoy the awesomeness, rather than caring much about which character is supposed to be acting in which fashion, or if they're actually dumb. I mean, I think they've established that peter is pretty dumb, he doesn't even know diddly about himself, and keeps running into powers he has no idea how to control. I guess this means he'll gain that blue fire, soundwave thingy, and whatever the black guy was because he was in the room with them for 2 seconds, and since he got DL's power, he probably has Micah's and Molly's as well, without even noticing. Probably it would be good if sylar checked out his lobes, and explained at least a little bit of what he can do. I am disappointed though that Francis Capra didn't get more time. Weevil vs Veronica would have been groovy. And on a side note, anyone who goes to superheroes for rational, coherent storytelling clearly has issues, please read an issue of X men, then one a year later, and talk to me about coherence.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Oomlot

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Pretty much - if a show makes you angry, the best advice is to stop watching it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Seems to me, too too.

    by Pennsy

    OK, I like where this is going...

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:25 a.m. CST

    re: Fuller and S1

    by _Maltheus_

    Well, perhaps not as a writer, but as a producer, it would seem he had a lot of influence. It could be a coincidence that everything turned to crap just as he left, but given how good his other shows are, I strongly doubt it. It was like a night and day difference on the show. Granted though, Mohinder always sucked.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:28 a.m. CST

    Fuller

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I loved 'Company Man', and I love 'Pushing Daisies', I just don't think S2 was that much of a change from S1 in terms of quality. And Pennsy... dude, you have to chill. When Elle might be gone for good, you get angry... when they bring her back, you get angry that they're giving her 'that' story. What could possibly make you happy with regards to Elle?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Seems to me

    by theycallmemrglass

    That heroes need rescuing by heroes...in writers. Particularly the first season writers. Where did they go cos I know these arent the same ones.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:34 a.m. CST

    MORI and haters

    by g-ride9000

    How bout after this week you all fuck off and never watch the show again. It's total dribble, so watch some cartoons or the debate again. Just let us fans enjoy a lively discussion about this show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:35 a.m. CST

    Admit It!

    by Spank

    HEROES suffers from two of the oldest writing problems in comics today: 1) You have talented writers who have NO idea of comics, trying to "wow" an audience who have grown up in the genre. The cliche's inherent to the genre are all "fresh and new" to these folks, and 2) You've got comic book writing HACKS trying to help out the talented writers when all they know how to do (as modern day comic book writers) is write and rewrite to those same comic book cliche's, but have no real idea HOW TO WRITE CHARACTERS LOGICALLY. I thought this show kicked ass through it's first half of season one, and then slowly decayed into bad logic by the end of the second half. Too bad too becuase they WERE going in some pretty cool directions- at least it looked that way. Now, all you've got is bad writing on top of bad logic, with nowhere to go but down. Folks, sit back and read Watchmen and cry at the lost potential of this series. We could have/SHOULD HAVE seen a battle of the gods and now all we get is "Super Friends vs. The Legion of Doom". Seriously, it's time to pack up this series before it gets any worse, wait-a-minute maybe we should fight to keep it on the air just to watch it get HORRIBLY worse (if THAT could happen!). It may replace CSI Miami as the "Batman" of the 21st Century!!! Spank. www.spanksayswakeup.blogspot.com

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:35 a.m. CST

    Seems to me

    by theycallmemrglass

    We need more negative opinion on this TB.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:35 a.m. CST

    My God, there are some whiny bitches here...

    by SpyGuy

    Yes, it's obvious that HEROES is flawed and nonsensical at times, but it's also pretty entertaining if you stop analyzing every character move to death. You'll have LOST back in a few months, so just sit back and enjoy the light appetizer for a while before sinking your teeth into a solid main course.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:36 a.m. CST

    g-ride9000

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Hah - nice one, sir. And 'theycallmemrglass', there are no words. It's the same core staff, save for Fuller.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:37 a.m. CST

    theycallmemrglass

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Seems to me that no-one is saying no to any negative opinions, but that we'd prefer them to come from people who'd be capable of acknowledging that the show can be good. Heck, you don't hear any of us 'fans' saying Maya and Mohinder is a particularly good storyline.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Speedster between the sheets...?

    by ragingfluff

    I bet she goes like a train

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:52 a.m. CST

    TSCC > Heroes

    by LarryTate

    DrPain - Cameron can cry cuz she is not the Arnie Model. She is more realistic and has similar weight as humans (they carried her when she shut down a few eps back). This shit better not get canceled while heroes is crapping out grunt sculptures every week.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST

    mohinder is a joke to me,

    by g-ride9000

    but he's the classic idiot scientist, and the ego trip he feels after shooting up is great. It shows his true agenda (power). This is also what makes future peter interesting....what is that kid's agenda. Clair wants to hurt Sylar, Sylar doesn't care if he hurts people, a perfect company man. Where do they stand, when loved, when hated and when in trouble. These questions are what make up the whole theme of this season.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Why the HELL

    by KinjoAlcoholicNinja

    Would Angela Patrelli give Sylar up for adoption? A well to do mother who works for a company that is well aware that the children of super powered people will have super powers gives up one of her sons and keeps the other two....completely willing to let lil' super hero number 3 grow up completely unsupervised? Right....The only way this would make sense is if Sylar is younger than Nathan and she gave birth to him before she got involved in the company. Even if that's the case, it's still FUCKING STUPID. What an awful plot "twist." Bad form.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Hiro/Speester

    by Alientoast

    "The speed chick mentions in episode one that, because she is able to have a conversation with Hiro, it means that he isn't stopping time but just slowing it down. After which, she super-speeds away. If that is the case, when time is 'slowed' wouldn't she be running at the speed of a normal person instead of being able to speed away? "...She punched Hiro in the face, which caused him to lose concentration and thus ended the time-slow, allowing her to run away at her normal lightspeed-like movement.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Whoops

    by KinjoAlcoholicNinja

    Meant the only way it would work is if Sylar is older than Nathan.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:35 a.m. CST

    This "If I was writing it, I'd do..." criticism...

    by Kid Z

    ...is lame. That said, this show has always had plotholes galore. Just enjoy it when you can... last night's ep was pretty tense, even though it had some African who paints just like Tim Sale and gets those goddamn white contact lenses when he future-paints. Weak. As for all your questions, the answer is, "Because they didn't write it that way." Start talking about what the writers did wrong, not how you'd write it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Still like the show

    by lowman

    Is it flawed? Yes, but it is better than 90% of everything else on tv. You dont like it, dont watch. I dont see any talkbacks on here about the 50 other shows that are unwatchable and need to be canceled.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Angela giving up Sylar

    by lowman

    What if she gave him and hid the fact... like the company new how dangerous he was and wanted him destroyed so she faked his death (like HRG tried to do with Clair) and gave him up.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Did they explain.....

    by Blackguard

    ..HOW Sylar got his powers back? Last I remember he opened up a brain last season and nothing happened. Now he has all his old powers back??

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    Disappointed

    by STLost

    I don't know if I completely hated last night's episode, but it left me feeling confused and disengaged. It felt they were cramming too many arcs into the 3 episodes so far, and trying to speed through the process. And the adoption thing and sylar being a 'good guy' felt forced and just added for shock value. Noah and Sylar, if based off of 1.5 seasons of previous experience with these characters, would never do that. Chuck was my favorite last night, and stayed true to season one. I look forward to Chuck more than Heroes now.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Reading too much into this.

    by Mooly

    I admit that making one character (Peter) basically god creates all kinds of story problems. But this idea that just because YOU would do something if you have those powers, MUST be the only way to do things is pretty ludicrous. Why does peter walk when he can teleport anywhere? I don't know...maybe he likes walking around like a normal person some times. After all, he was a normal person at one time. Why doesn't Claire's mother suffocate? I dont know. I must have missed the episode where they explain every single aspect of her powers and how they work. Why do they trust Sylar? I don't think they do at all but we need more than hald of one episode to find out their plan. And if you are watching the show on TV (instead of the one in your head that you've supposedly written yourself) you would know that there is an alternate FUTURE that Peter is trying to stop...THAT is why the criminal exposing themselves in the bank is not a big deal. Peter said that in the second hour of the premier...the future changed when he shot his brother and they are clearly hinting that it got worse. That is why they still haven't shown us anything of it. I accept that there is and could be more small plotholes. Especially since Peter being GOD of the show is going to cause problems. But this season has been entertaining and far superior to season two. I just think people are looking for reasons to nitpick and bash the show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST

    I guess this is what happens without a game plan

    by Freakemovie

    It's why Lost will be remembered as legendary and Heroes will be another failed sci-fi show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by theycallmemrglass

    Oh man, the Maya and Mohinder subpolt was so frighteningly bad, I actually blanked it out from my mind. Curse you for making me remember it! I thought there was change of writers which would have made sense but if it is the same team then ...hmmmm. I am a heroes fan but a concerned one. Right now, the series is like a train going too fast round a bend that one side of wheels is up in the air. Will the train topple or land back on both sides of the track?.... I of course hope for the latter as most of us fans do. What I think is the problem is that the producers are listening to us fans too much. Fans have cried out for different things and are mis-interpreted as representing the majority. Stuff like "more super powers", "Hey more time travel please, that was cool when future Hiro met Peter" and so on. So the producers are trying to please the fans instead of listening to the writers' hearts in good storytelling. Kring said himself, they listened to us and will give us something spectacular in season 3. The thing is us "fans" who comment here on AICN or other fan sites are the minority. Most fans do not make comments on line (ok I assume or speculate this). We fans like to say what we want but we are not writers. I think most fans would just like to hand their faith over to the writer and give us a good story. Not us to tell them to write stories revolving around stuff we want to see.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:49 a.m. CST

    It seems to me

    by theycallmemrglass

    That was one fucking long ass post by my pea brain standard. Needs some serious editing.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Seems to me

    by theycallmemrglass

    That Oomlot needs to sue my ass for stealing his unintentional catchphrase.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore

    by Freakemovie

    You're accusing Lost of ripping off Watchmen but defending Heroes? How exactly is Lost ripping off Watchmen? I'm honestly curious; I can't really think of any serious similarity.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Curious: How many people here like Smallville?

    by theycallmemrglass

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11 a.m. CST

    Overnight rating: 5.7/8

    by Pennsy

    Not good at all.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Chuck did worse, actually...

    by Pennsy

    4.0/6 for last night's premiere, which means they lost 3 million viewers from last season. FUCK DANCING WITH THE D-LIST TO HELL.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:03 a.m. CST

    3 mil from its premiere last year, that should have read.

    by Pennsy

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:04 a.m. CST

    All Heroes needs

    by lowman

    Is a smaller scope. Just focus on the Company, bring Hiro and the Petrelli Family to work for HRG. Weekly adventures taking down new super villians and finding people with new powers with a larger season long plot. 3 or 4 times a year have a guest spot from one of the other "heroes" from previous seasons. Simple

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:04 a.m. CST

    People are finally seeing that the Emperor is naked

    by Rupee88

    I've been saying this show sucks since mid Season 1...it is finally sinking in with everyone else. I am shamed that it took me half of the first season, but that did have some good moments and the suckiness factor didn't kick into full gear immediately.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Freakemovie

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I know Heroes rips off Watchmen, but I don't care - what I do care about is people criticising Heroes for something Lost is just as guilty of, perhaps even moreso considering Lost isn't even the same fricking genre as Watchmen... (http://tinyurl.com/LostWatchmen)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:11 a.m. CST

    B/C Time Travel is a Paradox

    by aceattorney

    Duh

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Rupee88

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    So Company Man and Five Years Gone suck? Okay, not taking your opinion seriously considering even the people who dislike the show (except old groucho Moriarty) admit those episodes are fantastic.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Blackguard

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Sylar was infected with the Shanti Virus. He got a blood transfusion from Mohinder/Claire, and it killed the virus. He didn't regain all his abilities (he just has Telekinesis and the start power of Intuitive Aptitude. He's gained Spontaneous Regeneration, Alchemy, Clairsentience and Sound Manipulation

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Heroes just plain sucks

    by Unscripted

    I gave up on Heroes after an episode and a half. I listened to all the raves from people whose opinions I respected, and finally Netflixed the first disc. Gagged my way through the first ep, choked solid on the second. The bottom line is that major network television is never, ever going to be a competitive platform for drama again. After a decade of the unforced, open formats that the cable channels can provide, sitting through the 12-minute cliffhanger/commercial cycle is completely intolerable. As is the push-it-to-the-limit (but not one "shit," nipple or bare ass beyond) brick wall of antiquated S&P.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST

    PRIORITIES WRONG

    by Johnnie Walker

    When this show works, it's because the writers focus on the CHARACTERS first, not the concepts. That's why Company Man and Five Years gone work so well, as does much of the first season.<p><p> When they step outside the characters and just concoct "interesting" situations to put them in, instead of asking how they can create REAL journeys for them, we get nonsensical chaff like multiple characters existing in different time periods, and "surprising revelations" like Sylar is a Petrelli.<p><p> Now this show doesn't affect you on any emotional level, which is why it puts people to sleep.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:57 a.m. CST

    THIS SHOW IS STILL ON?

    by Darth_Kaos

    I tried watching it when it first came out, and it became totally boring and self absorbed, believing it's own hype. I don't get it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:06 p.m. CST

    The ONLY way to save this show

    by InActionMan

    1) Fire Kring <P> 2) Have some all powerful alien like the Marvel Comics "Watcher" show up and say to all the heroes something to the effect of "you have totally fucked up the space time continuum blah blah blah scifi/ fantasy mcguffin blah blah blah. Therefore I must institute the MASSIVE RESET BUTTON" Peter, Sylar and Hiro get massively toned down powers. <P> 3)Bring in the worlds biggest continuity whores Jackson Public and Doc Hammer as show runners. Problem solved.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST

    Heroes Shmeroes indeed

    by ShirtlessHostage

    The time travel stuff is a mess, and Sylar and Peter are just too powerful for this show to make sense anymore. Introducing magical healing blood, and I know its ridiculous to say this in a show where people fly and walk through walls, destroyed my suspension of disbelief. Magical cures almost always do that to me. How come the world isn't a diseaseless utopia at this point? <br> I find less than half of the story arcs interesting. <br> <br> I'm tired of watching this show just because I've been watching since day 1. It's just not enough to keep me around anymore.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:17 p.m. CST

    How does Sylar being a Petrelli make any sense?

    by Bunger!

    Why would she give up one baby but keep two? Particularly because she's rich, and because it is obvious that Nathan is the oldest and she kept him (i.e. no argument can be made that Sylar was born when she was young and unstable, but she kept her later kids). . . . Wait for it, it's going to turn out that Sylar is the bastard child of her and Sulu or some shite.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    HEROES HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THIS!!!

    by reflecto

    Am I the only one sane who GETS IT? This show has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS BEEN SHIT!!! The most mediocre, juvenile, shallow take on superheroes possible, because they know the audience is so hungry they'll take anything! That's what you get when you hire Jeph Loeb!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST

    2 for 2 in the LAME SHOW LEAGUE!

    by Ninja Nerd

    Geez...I had such hopes for this show. Season 1 had its moments...and my viewing loyalty...until the weak season ender. Season 2 was pointless, Kring and crew promise they'll fix it, and we wait patiently for Season 3. And get this drivel. There are FULL RETARDS that write better stuff than this. I'm killing this show from my DVR schedule...it's a waste.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Johnnie Walker's right

    by buffywrestling

    Situational development is not character development. At this point the only one who I care about even a bit is Claire. And as Agent Johnson said, I want to like the show - but nothing's happening for me this year.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Elle is best character (actor as well)

    by ZoeFan

    on the entire show. I assume she will be brought back as she appears to be the only one who can fuck with Sylar. And did I mention how great of an actress she is.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 12:55 p.m. CST

    What ruined Heroes for me

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    Was when they revealed the older generation had super powers. That completely undermined the "something new and different is happening" freshness. It just killed the concept. <p> Next week I wish AICN would skip the Heroes talkback and give Terminator a chance.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Why give Sylar up for adoption?

    by zooch

    Are you forgetting Angela Petrelli can SEE THE FUTURE? She gave him to a watchmaker where he learned how to make things work which leads to him discovering his powers and reaching his potential.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson hit the nail on the head

    by zooch

    You sir understand the true problems of the show more than anyone else here.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST

    HERC

    by thekylegassproject

    I love ya man but you are being so fucking whiny about this. AND some of the questions you pose have simple answers.<p> Q: Did Daphne not make it clear last week she was in it for the money?<p> A: Herc, you are a television man for FUCK SAKE! You know that in a massive episodic network serial like this that there will ALWAYS be rehashed expository dialogue to fill the mouth-breathers and people who missed last week's ep.<p> Q: Why is Sylar so trustworthy again?<p> A: Um, he isn't. Angela and the company are making a very poor decision. Noah knows this but is forced to play along. This was obvious, herc.<p> Q: Why did peter put peter in a prisoner with superpowers?<p> A: It had nothing to do with superpowers, it had to do with LEVEL 5, which Bizarro Peter couldn't foretell would be compromised.<p> Q: Why doesn't Bizarro Peter care about Noah and help him?<p> A: Bizarro Peter is a broken man, he only cares about immediate tasks at hand when dealing with past. You and all the others kill me. First you say that it is too powerful to manipulate time, yet when timetravellers show discretion, they are crucified for it.<p> Q: Why doesn't claire's mom start to suffocate in the loading container?<p> A: The air was getting thin in there, true. But it was EXCEPTIONALLY thin when the flames were inches from Claire's face, which her mom was making a definate effort - even bending down - to do. the air will always be nearly non-existent when it is inches from a flame. did you notice when she cut the flame off and claire stood up that she could breathe easier. she still went outside but she was breathing easier. C'mon Herc, be observant man!<p> NOTE: Matt can't see the future. I am thinking this is a one time thing brought on by shamanism and whatever the fuck he was drinking.<p> "good thing peter shot Nathan to keep the world from knowing about superpowers.<p> A: COME THE FUCK ON!!! The broad daylight assault on the bank happend BECAUSE of the shit that went a wry with nathan's murder and all of the fallout. YOU NEED TO TURN YOU BRAIN ON, HERC!!!<p> Q: Does it make sense that Peter wouldn't go back to save claire because the future can't be changed.<p> A: again, peter is learning how cautious he must be when fucking with the past. the "butterfly effect" explained this last week. ALSO, i think a future peter would know that Claire simply can't die.<p> Q: The fact that New York was saved also, I think, renders pretty silly Hiro’s decision to never again travel back to the past. He could effortlessly trap speedster Daphne that way, couldn’t he?<p> A: Again, you guys bitch because folks with time travel are too powerful, yet balk when the character reigns it in. That is a double standard. Hiro is learning, like peter, how dangerous it is to fuck with the past.<p> Hercules, you are being unfair to this show. Does it have flaws? absolutely. Did it have a bad second season? Sure. But IS IT RECOVERING? YES!<p> you could do this kind of petty bullshit you and all the haters are doing to just about ANY SHOW if you look hard enough.<p> what the fuck ever happened to willful suspension of disbelief?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:23 p.m. CST

    2001 is greater than 1999

    by Napoleon Park

    Too bad the '70s didn't nave internets so the whiney beachnuts could rediscover every single wek that Space:1999 wasn't as good as Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey and then go whinge about it on line.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Hereos is an okay show... from the late 70's

    by MateoMcD

    Heroes is unfortunate enough to have been born in an era where we're used to saga-television: Every series now is what mini-series used to be. It used to be that you could turn on a show you had never seen before and watch an episode and see a beginning, middle, and end. Heroes is also like a comic book story stretched over 40 years: different writers, different social issues, different fads kills continuity. It just doesn't usually happen within a few weeks or months in the comics.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:27 p.m. CST

    what the fuck ever happened to willful suspension of disbelief?

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    It's used in a selective manner. Ah well, I'll sit here in my Heroes T-Shirt and geek away. The bit in 3x03 where time slowed down as JessePeter unleashed his ability was fucking fantastic.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Unlike the X-Men's genetiic mutations

    by Napoleon Park

    in the Heroes universe there seems to be a limited number of DNA variants that lead to useful powers. While the "all immortals are descended from Hiro's hero" seems plausible, I doubt everyone with the same of similar powers is related.<p>The African rock painter has pretty much the same precognitive artwork power as Isaac Mendes and, "coincidentally" a similar art style. I'm just glad they kept tim Sale involved - his art was a key element in season one.<p>And hey, did you notice that firestarter and flamethrower have the same power? Only Claire's mom uses it to make small yellow-orange flames, light smokes and heat up walls - and burn the air in confined spaces. "Flint" (was that is name> that's what someone here called him) engulfed his hands in a bright blue gas flame and projected it in sweeping arcs. See, it's the same power, the interesting potential is in the differences in how each character uses them.<p>Come to think of it, there's probably a reason the guy with the most powers, Peter, isn't smart enough to think of ways to use them. Okay, not a good reason from a story standpoint, but an explainable reason from a story-telling point of view. If he was brilliant and inventive it would force the writers to be brilliant and inventive (which they might not be) and, oh yeah, he would be the most powerful person on Earth.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:38 p.m. CST

    I'll tell you why this show makes me mad....

    by ziah_vaempiir

    Shows like Angel get cancelled due to lack of viewership but this crap spawn millions of fans. Something in the world just ain't right.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore...

    by ZoeFan

    What happened you ask, audiences became smart. Suspension of Disbelief is one thing. Complete stupid logic or lack of any logic at all is a whole other matter.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Oh, get stuffed. I posted above that I have problems with the show, so this isn't some incredulous 'Heroes can do no wrong' fest. It just gets real old when some of you jackasses criticise everything about the show, but keep watching every week and turning the talkback into a 'fuck Heroes' bonanza.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    ZoeFan

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I'm a Uni grad and a Masters Student, so I'd consider myself smart - and I don't understand the hatred for Heroes, at all.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Does the Hatian's power now not work on Sylar?

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    I thought it did in Season 1. I kept wondering why Sylar's head wasn't getting blown off while he was saying "Once I discover his weakness..."

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Dom

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I assume that they both figure Sylar would regenerate as soon as The Haitian left Sylar's side. See Claire in S1 when the branch was removed.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:51 p.m. CST

    it would force the writers to be brilliant and inventive (which

    by Psynapse

    They aren't.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    So you're suggesting that no-one who enjoys the show should post in a talkback, and that only people who watch it just to hate on it should post?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Look - you have some faith in the show, so my 'hater' comment isn't addressed strictly at you. It's mostly addressed at certain cretins who've hated the show since the end of S1, but can't stop complaining about it and wishing it'd be cancelled. It's just so petty, like the shit I used to do with Lost.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:54 p.m. CST

    willful suspension of disbelief?

    by Psynapse

    Try willful suspension of intellectual capacity.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Psynapse

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Let me guess, your favourite show is Lost?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:58 p.m. CST

    AGENT JOHNSON

    by thekylegassproject

    seriously man, the things heroes gets criticized for is just the nature of television. face it, bitch. it's a fact.<p> like your little impression of the hick on the recliner with the beer watching the tube - the sad fact is my friend is this: get ready for it cuz it's going to hit you like a motherfucking freight train:<p> THAT IS THE MAJORITY OF THE AUDIENCE!!! and what's worse - EVERY network KNOWS this to be true. that's why these shows are so overtly accessible. so it is what it is.<p> what kills me is what Zeddermore was saying. you all getting together to bitch about a show you constantly watch whilst being nitpicky comic book fanboys.<p> fuck you and everything you stand for...bish...

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 1:59 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    I call foul with a fair bit of Heroes (Peter's lack of limitations... the way Sylar DIDN'T use his new ability to touch an item of Angela's and get proof she was his Mother... two Villains down already), but - like with all good shows - the flaws don't detract from the experience from me. I can knock the crap-tastic Maya/Mohinder storyline all day, but then you get a scene like Tracy and Micah... and it's just great acting!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore...

    by ZoeFan

    To answer your original question, there's a thin line between Suspension of Disbelief and idiocracy. Also there's a thin line between TV logic and Movie logic. Most of the people that bitch on this TB are using Movie logic. The standards of Movie logic are generally higher. Therefore when you have Heroes with dumb TV logic, it's gonna get picked apart. To further drive my point home. If the season premiere of Heroes was a movie, it would have been panned by everybody. Yet since it is a TV show, it's given leeway by most viewers. Most viewers are not on this TB. The TBers have MUCH higher standards of comic related shows and movies as this is their area of expertize.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Claire in Season 1 being taking out by a branch

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    That's another Sylar weakness. Branches. So either shoot him in the head with the Haitian around and he can't do any magic tricks or sneak up behind him and jam something pointy in his head. Then chop Sylar up into little pieces and spread him around. Maybe have the Haitian turn Sylar's brain into jerky or something and keep it in his possession at all times. Unless chopping Sylar into little bits makes multiple Sylars.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Ironic that a show about evolution....

    by drewlicious

    Is apparently trying to prove Darwin wrong. So far the dumbest people keep surviving. Why?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:05 p.m. CST

    It's A Live Action Comic Book, Folks.....

    by Jmacq

    All the stupid, seemingly nonsensical decisions these characters make basically amount to that simple explanation. Pretty much every superhero in existence (particularly the powerful kind) are struck with plot-induced-stupidity just so the plot remains moving. The forget they can pull of "stunts" they pulled just a couple issues ago in situations where they'd be really damn useful. Flash forgets he runs at the speed of fucking light so that an issue of Flash lasts longer than one page. Superman forgets 3/4s of the creative applications of his powers until a dramatically appropriate moment. Just like Heroes. Yet somehow people that are perfectly willing to put up with this same kind of plot induced stupidity month after month for years in comic books can't handle it on a live-action TV show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Actually no.....

    by Psynapse

    It's a toss up between Reaper, Pushing Daisies, Lost, and Supernatural but I like each of them for different reasons so I don't really have a favorite per se. And dude, if you're entertained and enjoying Heroes more power to ya (sincerely). For myself, I've every episode to date and keep having the same thought: I'd probably enjoy this more if I could just stop thinking while watching it. The characters are IDIOTS in service of soap opera plotting. and last night's episode was no exception. Example One: Meredith is breathing fine while Claire is choking? Riiiiight. Example Two: As soon as I figure out his weaknes, I'm going to kill him. News Flash Mr. Oh-so-saaavy Company Man with YEARS of dealing with these kinds of people under your belt: NOTHING lives when you separate the head from the body or did everyone forget Angela's dream showing EXACTLY how to take Claire out for good? Like I said, I can suspend disbelief, asking me to suspend rational capacity is a bit much,

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:05 p.m. CST

    ZoeFan

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Yeah, I've read Watchmen fifteen times and V For Vendetta twice, so I do have high standards. I just enjoy Heroes for what it is, which is a different take on established comic-book conventions that isn't grounded by forty years of sprawling mythology.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Psynapse

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Mate, I don't think during any TV. If I do, I rip it apart (to which I blame the theoretical and analytical TV Modules at Uni) in a brutal way. That's anything, from Lost to The Shield. So I turn my brain off and watch. In regards to Claire - if you put the head onto her body, she'll be revived. That's what they mean by 'she can't die.' Now obviously she can die a myriad of ways, but permanent death? That's up for debate.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Um Jmacq....

    by Psynapse

    Dude you obviously haven't read a comic published in the last 30 years if that's what you think they're written like.<p>The majority of comics are written FAR better than Heroes is and that's the problem.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Oh, and as for Claire...

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    She wasn't choking, she was having a panic attack. Meredith even alludes to this, saying Waterboarding isn't about drowning so much as a mental trick to manipulate the victim into a false perception of the events.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Lost doesn't have real emotional complexity. I don't think Heroes does, either, to be fair.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:13 p.m. CST

    I'm pretty sure the fire scene...

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    was just an excuse to get Claire sweaty. I don't know what a panic attack or running out of air has to do with teaching you how to fight.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Did anybody catch Life afterwards?

    by ChittyChittyGangBang

    "tell your friend on the floor I plan to count to three and then shoot him.."<p> Great show.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Soap Opera

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    You're right, it's a soap opera with action scenes. I can dig it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Heroes = Spiderman 3

    by biffy88

    What they need is to finish this season and start afresh with season 4. Get rid of EVERYONE. Have new characters, new powers, new storylines. It's the only way for the show to survive.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:21 p.m. CST

    biffy88

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    You think NBC would let that happen? Why'd you think Claire/Sylar can 'never die?'

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:25 p.m. CST

    by biffy88

    Oh NBC would never let that happen, from a business point of view it's practically suicide, think of all the money spent on merchandise with all the current cast pictured on everything. However from a fans perspective it seems like a good idea considering the mess of the last 2 seasons.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST

    biffy88

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Mess is debatable, but logic says they should have done it at the end of S1 if they were going to do it at all. Now, it'd be pandering to people more than anything.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:27 p.m. CST

    AGENT JOHNSON

    by thekylegassproject

    well, first. i do like LOST better. make no mistake.<p> but you can't make comparisons to MAD MEN and SOPRANOES because they aren't network because<p> a) MAD MEN affords itself great cerebral humor and satire because it's not a fucking SUPERHERO EPIC. and<p> b) the sopranoes isn't network television. apples and oranges and you know i'm right.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:30 p.m. CST

    AGENT JOHSON

    by thekylegassproject

    bah. fucked that last post up saying that mad men isn't network, i meant to apply that to sopranoes only. forgive me.<p> what i'm saying is heroes can be given a pass for some of its mindlessness (just as LOST can be given a pass for some of ITS mindlessness) because it is meant to have the most broad appeal possible and because it is an action based serial. and let's face it, even the source material of superheroes (comics) are easy to pick apart when it comes to logic.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Who died and then came back in Lost?

    by Novaman5000

    When they die, they stay dead.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:33 p.m. CST

    err...sopranos. just an unfortunate typo, i know how it is fucki

    by thekylegassproject

    jittery. fucking cola.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Re: Head and body

    by Psynapse

    Separate the two and dump them a sufficient distance apart. Like say, the Atlantic and Pacific oceans? Now if a Marketing Assistant from Florida can figure that out you'd think a friggin' handler of such people could. Oh wait, I use my brain whereas Tim Kring and his writers won't for the sake of keeping their bloated marketing ( I know whereof I speak in regards to this) monstrosity afloat on the fumes of it's own flatulence. <p>But hey, what do I know? Just that the ratings for this show have been in a steady decline since the first season and show no signs of slowing down in that regard now do they?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Psynapse

    by Mr. Zeddemore

    Except she can still be ressurected - just put them together. Hence she can't 100% die.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Just watched

    by SUPERJIM

    And holy shit. will this show ever get good again? Will any of the people with super powers actually use their brains and their powers to fix things? SO many holes. This show could be amazing and they are throwing it to the dogs!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Well sure....

    by Psynapse

    As soon as said head is retrieved from the bottom of the friggin' Mariana Trench. C'monnn...you're splitting hairs to be contrary not actually countering the practical merits if my idea. 'Cause hey 99.9 percent dead is certainly good enough in this instance.<p>And again, S3 premiered with 25% less viewership than S2 did and S2 was SERIOUSLY down compared to S1. Enjoy it while you can those of you who are, I doubt you'll be seeing it on the schedule in fall 2009.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    In an ocean of haterade...

    by Pennsy

    It's nice to see folks come to K-Bell's defense; I know I've changed my habits with this season. I watch the show, and will until/if they kill Elle off. But I don't DVR it; the next time that's fired up will be the next time she's on the show. The ratings went up slightly in the last half-hour as opposed to last week, when they went down. It's a good sign, no matter its size.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:24 p.m. CST

    All I know is..

    by turketron

    In season 1 I archived all of the episodes and read the online comic. Season 2 I stopped. I still watch the show for its entertainment value, not for sharp writing. Right now what's keeping me watching: Sylar, HRG, The Hatian, the Company, Marlo Stanfield as a villain who feeds on fear, and I'm a sucker for seeing people get flung around by telekinesis. I choose not to think about the way they use time travel on this show at all (keeps me from flinging shit at the tv during this and TSCC), but I still get irked whenever Peter and Hiro act like dumbasses.<p><p>Hiro annoys the shit out of me these days... Ando needs to go ahead and get his powers and zap some damn sense into him.<p><p> NOW WHERE IS THE DESPERATELY NEEDED SUPERNATURAL TALKBACK!? WHY does that show continue to be ignored by the entire staff at AICN?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:28 p.m. CST

    re: Complete Suspension of Disbelief

    by veritasses

    There are several reasons why an audience is willing to suspend belief for one particular show/movie and not another. The first involves the world that is created. If the world where the story takes place is clearly made up (like say "Middle Earth" or the Star Wars universe) we're willing to accept made up creatures, events and "laws of nature". So elves, Ring Wriths, droids and "the force" are accepted without question. Conversely, if a story goes out of it's way to say that it takes place in our real world (or a world closely resembling ours), than our minds come to expect the story to stay true to the real world. When it's supposed to take place in the real world but we see obvious evidence to the contrary, it breaks the illusion and the audience ends up groaning. The show "24" is guilty of this on many counts. Second, we expect (human) characters to think and behave and interact like real people. There's some leeway here depending on if the story takes place in a fantasy setting but for the most part people need to act reasonably like real human beings and true to the character. The writer, actor and editor have to take particular care to ensure that the audience will believe that a character's actions are reasonable for their situation. There are tons of examples where illogical behavior pulls us out of the illusion. Sometimes it's because of bad acting or because the character wasn't setup properly but sometimes it has to do with putting story over character (instead of having the character drive the story) and trying to shoehorn in a story element. Third, the story can't break it's own rules and laws. Whether it's "The Force", Superman and a giant island of Kryptonite, time travel or even non super powers things like Rules of Law or police procedures, established rules need to be followed. Good writers will write intelligently and logically and keep the audience in the illusion/story. Bad writers will pull the audience out of the story.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Oh make no mistake Pennsy...

    by Psynapse

    Kristin Bell (along with the smoke-itude that is Ali Larter and Hayden Panettiere) is one of the things that keeps me coming back despite the groaner plotting.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Darwin

    by Alientoast

    "Is apparently trying to prove Darwin wrong. So far the dumbest people keep surviving. Why? "...Actually, Darwin never said that the strongest/smartest/etc survive. That was a false quote attributed to him (and probably propagated by Social Darwinists who DID use that as a phrase). Although in terms of evolution, in the end, brains + brawn don't matter alone. If your species can't adapt to changes or selective pressures, there's a good chance you may become extinct.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Take a bow Veritasses...

    by Psynapse

    Thank you sincerely for quite eloquently deatiling where and how it falls apart for me when watching Heroes.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Grrr...damn typos....

    by Psynapse

    ....

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:41 p.m. CST

    HEROES is still a fun show but...

    by Sackratte

    it isn't what it could have been with real and good writing. The shows are written like from a bunch of 10 year olds. It is obvious there isn't any plan behind the show. I bet they don't know what this strange symbol is for and so on. They pull out storylines out of their ass and left others hanging. Just when Sylar is back he is caught in the next episode again. WTF!? LOST seem to have a big plan behind all and that alone makes LOST a superior show compared to HEROES.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:45 p.m. CST

    How they write it!

    by Sackratte

    I think I know how they write the shows. There is a team of writers and everyone can write one character. Because of the interaction between characters you get a mess real soon after a view episodes. Now think what happens when you change the writing team each season too... yes that is right you get a show like HEROES.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST

    It's a mess

    by Photoman

    This has really gotten to be a big big mess of a show. Way too many characters all going off in different directions. No logical flow of the use of super powers at all. Herc is right...if Future Peter could fly back in time to try and change history by shooting his brother before he reveals to the world about people with super powers (instead of...i don't know, just coming back about an hour before the news conference and telling him not to do it)...then why can't he go back in time to stop Sylar taking Clair's super power? I mean...come on! Oh and Moriarty is still an asshole. Go away McWeeny.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 3:56 p.m. CST

    I have battered wife syndrome from this show

    by SID 8.0

    and Smallville. He only hits because he loves me. It's my fault I ask to many questions like; why doesn't Hiro go back and stop his father's will tape from ever being played? SMACK! I deserved that. Or why isn't Clark flying yet? POW! Silly me. See ya next episode. Ned Supernatural TB now, make it happen.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Daphne is just plain HOT.

    by ZeroCorpse

    I'll keep watching as long as she's on the show, and as long as they continue to give us upskirt shots of the leggy members of the cast.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 4:53 p.m. CST

    ‘Heroes’ Scores Lowest Rating Yet for Original Episode

    by Hercules

    http://tinyurl.com/54epho

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Kind of sitting on the fence this season

    by BigMick

    Season 1 of Heroes, I thought, was awesome. Sure the first half of the season was a bit too slow but once it picked up it kicked ass. Sesaon 2 was brutal from the get-go. Season 3 so far I don't think is that bad, sure they need to weed out some of the flawed characters (i.e. Claire and Peter) and also get rid of the pointless characters (i.e. all of Ali Larter's characters). <p> They also need to fix all the problems with their reset buttons, I personally think they should figure out a way to make all the powers that Peter has accumulated more temporary than permanent. I think that would add a bit more drama and suspense to Peter's character, instead of allowing him to do anything, he can only use a certain amount of powers or retain them for a brief period of time. And they need to start using the time travel thing in more interesting ways, instead of at the beginning of each season they see something that happens in the future and spend the whole season trying to prevent it. <p> And finally Riley Martin, what in the hell are you talking about with dead characters coming back on Lost. All the characters on that show that have died have remained dead. If you're referring to Jack's father or Charlie, that is clearly part of a larger picture and quite obvious that they are still dead and not alive. I know it can be hard to pay attention to interesting shows when you're head is up your ass, but trust me on this one.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:12 p.m. CST

    IT. HAS. ALWAYS. SUCKED.

    by reflecto

    It has been just this ADD, immaturely plotted and written, thin on character and so on since DAY ONE. People were just SO EXCITED that "OMG FINALLY A REAL BIG SHOW ABOUT SUPERHEROES!" that you all let it go for a year.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Season 3 Premiere was better than all of season 2

    by Greenleaf1

    That isn't saying much though. I didn't hate the premiere, it was better than I would've expected. Not even comparable to Lost though in terms of quality.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Did Jeph Loeb finally run out of comic stories to crib from?

    by blindambition238

    I followed Season 1, despite the shows really obvious flaws, but was too let down by the climax to even bother tuning in again

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Stupidest thing this season...

    by _Maltheus_

    ...was when after an entire season of Peter protecting Adam out of gratitude for saving Nathan (even with plenty of evidence that he was being used), when Nathan is on the verge of death again and Claire (Nathan's daughter for crying out loud) offers to help, Peter says, "no you're in California," as if he couldn't teleport, fly or use his own blood (assuming that's possible). I SO want this show to get better.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:29 p.m. CST

    The fire scene..

    by gotilk

    .. was actually ONE that made sense. "To help people" is often a BS reason to do something or pursue a career. There's always some other underlying reason or motivation. Sure, we want to help people, but we don't come to that usually out of thin air. Her mother was trying to help her face that, not "teach her to fight". I thought that was fairly clear and was one of very few things that didn't leave me scratching my head while watching this show I happen to love and do not want driven into the ground. They should bring in a sci fi writer to shore up the flood of time travel loose ends. Very messy. Still has my love, I will still watch. But come on.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Ratings

    by Toonol

    _Every_ series premiere this year has had substantially lower ratings than their premiere last year. It's misleading to point to one show and use the ratings as an indicator of quality when it is happening uniformly to all. It's obviously something outside the shows themselves driving that.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:32 p.m. CST

    And BTW Kensei/Adam could've been a GREAT longterm villain

    by reflecto

    The progenitor of the superhumans. But no, within 12 episodes or whatever, they have a dumb little fight with him and Peter and bury him alive. Back to more people we don't know! Oh, Molly and all those important characters? They don't matter!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:33 p.m. CST

    And those questions

    by Toonol

    The show has inconsistencies and the time travelers powers are too powerful; so there are legitimate criticisms to level against the show. But most of Herc's questions have pretty obvious answers that make it seem that he is either not paying attention, or (I suspect) predisposed to avoid seeing the obvious answers the show's laid out. That's not serious criticism, that's just partisan ranting.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Is it me or does Mama Petrelli look like an older Sarah Palin?

    by Pennsy

    Or not?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:48 p.m. CST

    I'm not feeling it.

    by Audio_of_Being

    I thought Season 1 was great. Upon re-watch on DVD, season two wasn't *quite* the shitfest I remembered it being, but season 3 is not pulling me in at all. It's like a switch was hit where I stopped caring about the characters because either they are written obnoxiously ridiculous, or the situations they are put in have become obnoxiously ridiculous.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Zeddemore and Agent Johnson

    by Freakemovie

    Zeddemore -- reading through some of your posts, you seem to think Heroes is an entertaining show but not a *great* one in terms of logic, storytelling, etc. That's cool. But don't drag Lost down to Heroes' level just because you don't like it. I'm <i>very</i> invested in Lost's story and characters, and I don't turn my brain off when I watch it. I'm not pretending the show hasn't made its share of mistakes, but as Agent Johnson said, it's Lost's commitment to its characters -- and I would add to that its overarching game plan that allows it to avoid Heroes-style logic gaps and create a momentum -- that make it great, and of a higher quality than anything else on network television.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6 p.m. CST

    Can't stand Mama Petrelli

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    makes me think of those grandmaws that make the grand kids give her long lingering kisses on the lips, smells of too much perfume and hair spray.<p> I refer to her as PruneFace

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Please, Lost and Heroes BOTH suck

    by reflecto

    In some similar, some different ways. They both offer a thin veneer, a false patina of "sophistication" or "out-of-the-box creativity" with the same sappy, made-for-TV, shallow concepts, plotting and characterizations underneath. "Lost" DOES have more character and story consistency than "Heroes" but not much. They are both "smart shows" for people who don't like "smart shows." "Lost" is a junior high, Livejournal-era version of "Twin Peaks." "Heroes" is a dime store, Nickelodeon/MTV-ready "Watchmen." They can't compete with the stuff being produced by cable.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:03 p.m. CST

    HALLOWEEN and THE FLY

    by Jawa 007

    Did anyone else see the nods to those movie in the season openers? Doesn't feel like homage so much as plagarism.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:05 p.m. CST

    another amusing thing about the h8ters TBs

    by Pancho Straight

    is how there's no single right threory about what's wring with the show. One group says "get rid of all or most of the characters and start over' while other groups want Kensei gug out, Copycat pulled from the fire, Molly returned and Urura a regular. Yeah, and I miss Parkman's chubby b*tch wife, too.<p>Then there are the non-thinkers still parroting the "everyone who dies come back" catch phrase. No, if you're confused by seeing the dozen or so named recurring characters who died and stayed dead, stop watching the DVDs.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Pancho, be serious

    by reflecto

    It's not that we all want Molly or Kensei or whoever back. It's that we want there to be any long-term impact or consistency to anything that happens with these people. Both Molly and Kensei were built up in late Season 1 and throughout Season 2 as oh so important, and the kid was shown to be sooo important to Matt and Mohinder. Just like Matt's pregnant wife. But as soon as these things become inconvenient, Kring and his crew of idiots dump them with no regard for the character history or everything they've already built up. "LINDERMAN IS THE BIG BAD - oh, no, he just died so MYSTERY MAN (KENSEI) IS THE ULTIMATE EVIL!!! No we just buried him alive...who's next?" They don't stick with anything. What even happened to Monica?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Okay

    by Oomlot

    So I held in there as long as I could, reading the same points reiterated over and over again. But jebus that's hard. I just wanted to add to my 'Peter is not smart' thing, in saying that he also has Sylar's primary power, so he could probably pull his own skullcap off, grab a mirror and check out his brain to see how all the things work. A few minutes discomfort to actually be able to control himself, would be a sensible trade off. But again, he's just not a bright or rational guy. I still want the answer as to how future Peter got his scar. Oh, and theycallmemrglass, I'm not litigious in any way, shape or form so I don't sue people. (note: humour was intended in that last statement, it probably failed though)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:20 p.m. CST

    It;s a f*cking comic book

    by Pancho Straight

    Every thing people complain about - repetition, lapses in logic, plot holes, stupid characters, recycled plots, plagiarized plots and characters... these have all been extremely typical of the comic book medium for seventy years now.<p>The problem is that you expect Heroes to be the best ever comic inspired property, and it isn't. There are certainly many better comic book based movies and novelizations. Heroes is not the best television adaptation of superheroes. That was JLU. It's not the most popular or influential comic book based TV show - that was the Adam West Batman series. It's not the best live action comic book show, that was The Tick. And it's not the most effective example of cross marketing a property with graphic novels, games, contests, web sites, etc.; that would be Lost, where it grew naturally rather then having to be forced.<p>Sobbing that Heroes isn't the best and therefore it's no good is like buying the Archie Mighty Crusaders trade paperback and then b*tching that it isn't Watchmen.<p>Of course the people who hate you are delighted that you're incapable of experiencing pleasure and enjoyment from simple light entertainment. If it makes you unhappy or upset that Heroes isn't the best.. show... EVER!... Well, that's fine with them. But I don't hate you, so I just think it's sad. Lighten up and dig the action and special effects or flip the channel and watch something you like.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by reflecto

    On Caitlin the Irish girl, Kring and co. cavalierly said they were going to handle her "final fate" in the eps that got eaten by the strike "but now we probably won't do it, Peter left her in a future that doesn't exist it." NO BIG DEAL! WE'RE THE ONLY SUPERHERO SHOW ON THE AIR SO IGNORE OUR PROBLEMS!

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Pancho there are GOOD COMICS

    by reflecto

    Jeph Loeb does not write them but they exist. I can expect a quality comic book television show just as I can expect a quality comic book film. If you had to watch X-Men 3 or Spider-Man 3 or Ghost Rider again, would you want to because "it's just a comic?" I don't and never did expect Heroes to be "THE BEST EVER." I expected it to be good, and it's not, never has been. That's all I expect from any film or television show, that it's good, and if it's not, that means it's BAD. Why should I invent a new scale for Heroes because it's the first show about superheroes? This is not the Special Olympics, where you win an award for gumption.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Irish Girl

    by Pancho Straight

    Irish Girl was taken to a possible future that no longer exists. Therefore, she ceased to exist. So here's a great super-realistic plot development, why doesn't Peter go to a future that never came/will come into existence in his current time line and rescue a woman who no longer exists. Yeah, that makes super sense. Then he can reverse time by rotating the planet backwards and you can save your mom and the dog you had when you were a kid.<p>Revive a character in a established comic book way, such as a blood transfusion (see She-Hulk, origin) and everyone freak out. But then they want to see a woman who no longer exists returned from the limbo of a future that has been prevented from coming into existance, and they things all the other fans will love that.<p>Oh, and Nikki/Jessica are probably dead, having been caught in an explosion or whatever, and the new Larter Character is identical in appearance to them because they were all created as part of an experiment. Depending on how active that mad scientist guy was, they can keep killing her off and bring in a new, different Ali Larter character every chapter.<p>Go the IMSb and read the cast list - for every half dozen characters they revived from the dead, there's a dozed they killed who stayed dead. Charli, Ted, Linderman, DL, Isaac and his girlfriend, Sylar's (step-?)mom, Julia Roberts brother,... okay, I can't think of twelve off the top of my head. Let me know when they all come back.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Pancho

    by jmyoung666

    The average superhero comic on the racks today is significantly more sophisticated and requires more of its reader than Heroes. The Second half of the first season was the only area where Heroes shone somewhat. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a smart super-hero TV show. Movies like Iron Man also demonstrate that superheroes can be written effectively. <p><p> I am not expecting the Watchmen, but I am expecting that that the characters will not be required to act in uncharacteristically idiotic fashion just to create tension in the plot. Also, in a serial show, like a serial comic, I expect the characters to grow and change.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Irish Girl

    by jmyoung666

    If Kring really said what Reflecto said he said, he is a fucking moron. If they do not return to that plot point, then that is just terrible storytelling.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Irish Girl

    by reflecto

    Not everyone in the audience is up on time travel comic book mechanics well enough to know that Caitlin got lost in a deleted future, so that could've been wrapped up. Secondly, the relationship between Peter and Caitlin was developed enough to the point that Peter MIGHT have wanted to be a little more upset when he lost her. Instead it was "OK moving on." Heroes operates on Internet fandom and what they want in their ADD haze. They give people what they think want more of - more Sylar, more naked Peter, more badass Noah, more wounded Claire, more cute crap with Hiro and Ando, MORE alternate futures - without acknowledging any consideration of solid story or characterization or narrative.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:43 p.m. CST

    revisionist history

    by Pancho Straight

    I keep hearing how great season one was/What show were you watching? the Heroes I watched was slow paced, plodding and took forever to introduce the main characters and establish their powers. Things started to click half way through season one when they finally had everyone in place and they began to have them meet and do things.<p>Then there was a huge backlash I didn;t understand over the season finale from people who apparently expected a three hundred million dollar special effects budget team-up extravaganza <p>The major season two backstep was resting on glories and covering the same group, reintroducing, reestablishing things we already knew and breaking up the characters through time and space.<p>Season two set people up to hate the show, but if the season one finale had as much action and superhero effects as this season has had so far everyone would have loved it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:43 p.m. CST

    jmyoung

    by reflecto

    Kring did say that, I very lightly paraphrased. Google "Tim Kring" and "Caitlin."

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:44 p.m. CST

    I NEVER liked Season 1

    by reflecto

    It had one good episode: "Company Man." Let me be very clear. This show has been from mediocre to suck since Day 1.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:46 p.m. CST

    The biggest problem is they could've had a new start

    by reflecto

    Instead they started S1 AND S2 with the SAME START as Season 1. Season 1 ended with the heroes banding together in the lamest fight ever after spending all season separated. OK fine, at least make up for it by showing these characters tight-knit, assembling together not necessarily as a superhero team but in some way so they're not doing the same dragged-out lame shit where they don't know what the other person they've met before knows and they can't communicate properly and everybody is farting around with bad information. That got old in S1 and it was even older when they did it again in Season 2. "You remember me? From Kirby Plaza?" PLEASE.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Pancho,

    by jmyoung666

    In regard to the season finale, I can understand the limited budget, but this is what I referred to earlier as characters acting stupidly. Sylar should not have been able to take down Peter that easily the way that he did. If the writing had been a little smarter, they could have avoided a special effects monstrosity and still had an acceptable ending. Characters should not be suddenly bereft of intelligence just to set up plot situations.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:50 p.m. CST

    And heeeeeere's ChrTh!

    by chrth

    Finally caught up. What are we talking about?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:52 p.m. CST

    Maltheus_

    by bacci40

    that was future peter...he wanted present nathan to die...

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 6:55 p.m. CST

    okay, then, it's not just a f*ckin' comic book.

    by Pancho Straight

    Heroes is a TV show. I don;t want to say anything snotty about the comparative intelligence of people who read for entertainment and people two turn on an electronic book and stare into a light. But TV has lower standards than cinema and is less literate than sci-fi novels or good comic books.<p>I would love a series with superpowers, capes and tights and masks and code names and a tight, coherant continuity and logical stories. Most comic book fans would. but comic fans are a very small minority in this country and to get a TV audience they have to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator.<p>But look did you ever read Dr. Weird of Nuklo or the Dell super-heroes? There are people with a sense of humor that don;t gold all comics to the same lever as the best of the medium. they can't all be the Spirit or Watchmen. I'm not advocating Adam West batman style "camp", I'm just saying that there are people who can enjoy BAD comics, whether they're inconsistent, poorly drawn, juvenile or corny, hackneyed and cliched. Just like some people like crappy arena rock bands or romance novels or Ed Wood, Roger Corman and Russ Meyer movies or whatever the best and brightest feel they're too cool for.<p>I don;t expect heroes to live up to my concept of what a really good comic book would be or could be like. It's just a TV show, take it or leave it.<p>Excuse me, I'm gonna go watch House and Fringe now.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7 p.m. CST

    Why Haitian can't stop Sylar

    by chrth

    Um, is the Haitian going to stand next to Sylar's corpse for the rest of his life? Are they going to cut him up into ten million pieces and scatter him across the universe with Mama Petrelli protesting? Think about it: HRG needs to stop Sylar is a way where Mama Petrelli (you're evil ma) can't reverse it. Using the Haitian is out unless it's a momentary measure.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Company Man

    by theycallmemrglass

    ...was one of the greatest piece of television in any series. Not the greatest but pretty much up there. Heroes needs to throw us an episode like that to lift us out of our gloomy response to what they are dishing out at the moment.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Mr. Zeddemore, you're joking

    by bah

    Any of those things that are not coincidence would be homage (e.g. Bernard and Rose. How unoriginal, they stole two names from Watchmen!)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:37 p.m. CST

    TV has lower standards? WTF?

    by flickchick85

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Oops, hit enter...

    by flickchick85

    What is this business about TV having lower standards than cinema? I say that's kinda true, if you've been watching the wrong TV. For example, shows like The Wire, Deadwood, and Battlestar Galactica are the kinds of achievements cinema can only dream of.<p> As a medium, I think television has more storytelling potential than any other medium on that planet. Because you CAN tell really long, epic stories in live-action, and create characters that evolve over several seasons. Movies have 2 to 3 hours, so they can't even hope to get that complex.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 7:52 p.m. CST

    For another example...

    by flickchick85

    I found the 1st season of Veronica Mars to be a much more emotionally involving murder mystery story than any I've seen in movies...no matter how passionately Sean Penn screams at the heavens. Because they were actually able to take the time and go in-depth on how this event effected the individuals of an entire town, in a unique, textured, fleshed-out little universe.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:04 p.m. CST

    I hope you assholes are happy

    by zooch

    IF it gets cancelled, I hope you are people are happy. You got your way. You never have to hear about it anymore. You never have to force yourself to watch it even though you hated it. The show that many liked would be gone. The chances for a serious superhero sci-fi drama on television would gone with it. The fans with nothing to replace it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:05 p.m. CST

    by My Pretty Pony

    The 1st season was pretty good w/ the exception of Mohinder, who is one of the stupidest characters I've ever seen on television, and that includes Screech from "Saved by the Bell". Season 2 just got worse and worse. Claire's high school storyline was lame, so was Hiro's bizarre ancient Japan storyline, and they introduced new annoying characters like that godawful Maya, yet killed off or ignored better characters like DL, Simone, Ted, that girl who could make herself look like anyone she wanted to, and the invisible guy. There was another interesting woman w/ powers who inexplicably disappeared from the show. Also, what happened to Micah's grandmother & cousin from New Orleans? I actually liked them. They seem to abandon storylines for no particular reason and then introduce new convoluted ones as if the audience won't even notice. Not to mention all of the blatantly obvious plot holes. Then there's the fact that they keep killing off major characters only to bring them right back to life. There was no doubt in my mind that Nathan and Niki/Jessica would be back for the 3rd season. Even though it would've been smart to get rid of Maya, they actually killed her and then brought her back to life in the same freaking episode. Argh! Everyone was saying that the show was finally getting back on track this season, so I recorded the premiere and it was actually painful to watch. Terrible writing, ridiculous plots, awful cliches. Just horrible. I won't even mention how bad the acting was because I don't see how anyone could've delivered those heinous lines well. There really is no excuse for this kind of drivel. I think they decided at the last minute that Sylar would be Peter and Nathan's brother just to justify keeping him around.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Sure, their are better shows out there

    by zooch

    I've seen LOST and BSG, but they are almost over. I'm sure I could watch The Wire, Dexter, Mad Man, but those just aren't really my kind of shows. I hate the mostly everything on the Sci-Fi channel and CW. Not sold on Fringe. Hate Sarah Conner. What's going to fulfil my need for a cool serial sci-fi drama that doesn't look cheesy? If you know, I'd like to hear about it.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:34 p.m. CST

    "Mohinder, who is one of the stupidest characters"

    by Melvin_Pelvis

    I think Peter is operating at a far greater level of stupidity.<p> It doesn't matter though cos his true super power is the power of love

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:42 p.m. CST

    SUPERNATURAL

    by My Pretty Pony

    Everyone should be watching this show. You have no idea what you're missing. Buy seasons 1-3 on DVD immediately and watch the current season Thursday nights on The CW. In fact, you could start watching season 4 w/o ever having seen the show before and not miss a beat. Watch the season 4 premiere online and all you'll be thinking is how awesome "Supernatural" is & that you should've started watching it a long time ago.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Peter

    by My Pretty Pony

    I won't disagree that Peter is also a moron. Maybe Mohinder's stupidity stands out even more because he's just so pretty.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 8:56 p.m. CST

    My Pretty Pony

    by flickchick85

    I'm always looking for good shows, so I'll take that challenge. You sure I can watch the S4 premiere and not miss a beat?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Heroes will be on this entire season

    by zooch

    This isn't FOX we are talking about. They aren't going to let this ship sink so soon. NBC still has been keeping Friday Night Lights around for two season without it finding an audience. NBC will move a show around until it finds more audience or has none left. It hasn't even moved Heroes yet. Heroes is still a big deal to NBC, it still sells alot of DVDs, gets the website a ton of hits, still generates a ton of ad revenue, and still wins key demographics. I predict a good two or three more seasons even if the ratings continue to decline.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Supernatural Season 4

    by My Pretty Pony

    They pretty much reinvent the show (in a good way) w/ each new season, plus there is a lengthy & awesome recap set to an AC/DC song before the premiere actually begins. You should have no trouble following along. I think that after seeing the premiere, you'll most definitely want to catch up on the other seasons, though.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Thanks, MPP.

    by flickchick85

    Going to check it out now...

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:29 p.m. CST

    I can travel

    by LarryTate

    in time, so I'm getting a kick out of these responses.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:43 p.m. CST

    4400

    by Evil Chicken

    I really miss it. I'm still checking out Heroes on the DVR but the 4400 was awesome. Oh yeah, BSG is one of the finest things on television.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Concept vs execution

    by Dreamfasting

    It's frustrating to see a show that hit such a chord on its initial concept then seemed to flounder so completely trying to figure out what it was people liked. It had idealism, optimism, individuals finding their worth in the world. But it's been weighed down by the bleakness of false prophecy and frustration of conspiracies and people blundering and blurring their ideals to create random conflict. And Peter's character is a disaster in my humble opinion - from a story structure point of view, he's interchangable with Syler: he drains all the characters he encounters of their uniqueness and individuality in the show's universe. I don't know, perhaps if I gave it more time it can still pull itself around and find a voice again ... but I fear I've given up on it already.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 9:57 p.m. CST

    Why the fuck do I keep watching this show?

    by Series7

    Seriously. We get it, the squatty cheerleader girl is a big star WOO-Hoo. Skylar is a bad guy doomed to start from the beginning at the start of every season. Fucking Lost may never go any where, but at least it does run around in circles after its tail like Heroes does.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10 p.m. CST

    Oh and

    by Series7

    Hey lets kill Veronica Mars and replace her with..... a fucking Veronica Mars stand in? <P> Am I missing something? Is this show's target audience 12 year olds and 80 year olds?

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:08 p.m. CST

    This episode was better than the first two

    by kyle051554

    Although that might be because I was watching it with a friend and didn't want to just complain relentlessly about it. I'll watch it next week, although the massive plot holes still bug the hell out of me.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Making Excuses: The Heroes Fan Story

    by necgray

    I tell you what happens when I "turn on my brain": this shit is stupid. This shit is emo. This shit is inconsistent. This shit rips off a TON of far greater material (Mohinderfly makes me want to fucking smash the TV). Fail. Epic fail.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:52 p.m. CST

    How Peter Can Save Irish Girl From The Alternate Future

    by SnapT

    1.) Present-day Peter travels back in time to right before 2007 Peter and Irish Girl travel into the future, turns invisible (he has that power) so he doesn't disturb the timeline, and grabs ahold of 2007 Peter and Irish Girl (their clothes or something they won't notice) so he travels into the alternate future with them (it must still exist at that point, or this never happened at all). 2.) Let 2007 Peter and Irish Girl do their thing without disturbing the established history. 3.) Teleport to where Irish Girl is (he must have some people-tracking power at this point), grab her, turn her invisible and tell her to shush up so as not to disturb history, and then again hitch a ride with 2007 Peter back to 2007. 4.) Now safely in 2007 with Irish Girl, go forward in the current timeline to the present-day. (That all makes SOME sort of sense, doesn't it?)

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 10:59 p.m. CST

    I'm done

    by ShallowGrave

    I exed it off my DVR season pass after last night's episode, which, in hindsight, I should've done after the "Sylar Kills His Mom" episode. Dumb fun I can excuse, but when a highly serialized show refuses to obey its own internal logic I refuse to give in to the weekly, lowest common denominator, circle jerk. Oh and no one on this show can act.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Blow me, zooch

    by reflecto

    "The chances for a serious superhero sci-fi drama on television would gone with it. The fans with nothing to replace it." PLEASE. If you really care so fucking much about "serious superhero sci-fi drama," why do you blindly follow the first piece of shit in the genre to come along? Why don't you demand real quality? Instead of just doing what NBC expects: "OMG a show about superheroes, finally! Let me ignore all its problems and bad writing because hey, it's all I got!" If Heroes is our only shot, I'd rather have none.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Emo?

    by gotilk

    What does that even mean anymore? It's thrown around more than a trailer park girlfriend. It's just lost any weight it used to have as it defines far too much, inconsistently and inaccurately. Time to move on to something else South Park conservatives and Metal fans.

  • Sept. 30, 2008, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Ok maybe that was harsh.

    by gotilk

    I should be more like Thumper.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 12:32 a.m. CST

    reflecto

    by zooch

    Heroes is most certainly not the first in the genre to come along. It's the most popular. It's the first that seems to really connect with people. It's the first to be taken seriously.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 1:05 a.m. CST

    Hot speed girl's funny line.....

    by Ka Dargo

    How does no one comment on that funny line where she pushes Hiro's glasses and calls him Pinkachu!!!...HA!!

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Heroes should have ended after season 1

    by DIBARAHMAN

    There is nowhere to go with Heroes. I quite like ep 1 and 2, but ep 3 was ridiculous. All of a sudden, Sylar is acting like hes an extra in Heat, buddy buddy with HRG. Peter has been lost since last ep of 1st season, and the whole thing is starting to remind me of 24 each season, usually about episode 16-20, when they make ludicrous stuff up because they have run out of ideas. I used to like Hiro, he was kind of endearing, but now I find the writers have made him and Ando, a stereotypical racist stupid double chinaman act.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 2:15 a.m. CST

    4400 was impressive given its difficulties

    by jbs0209

    4440 was impressive given how much the actors and network screwed with it.<p> The writers would build up a plot line only to see it blown to Hell by the actor going round the world on a cruise, or the network scaling back the budget, or some other crippling real world development.<p> And they still managed to put out a half decent reasonably logical story story despite the real world screwing with their master plans. I wonder what 4400 would have been like had the writers gotten to do what they wanted.<p> It was still better than Heros.<p>

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 2:19 a.m. CST

    Ando/Hiro & Sylar

    by jbs0209

    Dibarahman, I agree about Ando & Hiro. Their comic relief has fallen to Charlie Chan levels.<p> That said Ando and maybe Sylar are the only two characters I care about or am interested in anymore.<p> What I really want is for Sylar to go on a killing rampage and end up in control of the Company. Cue series end credits

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 2:33 a.m. CST

    Sylar

    by DIBARAHMAN

    He is the star of the show. Quinto is a phenomenal actor. When hes on screen, everyone else fades into the background. I am interested to see just where this season is going to go, but I have a feeling Kring is playing it safe, and rehashing season 1. Plot turns in ep 3 were ridiculous.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 4:10 a.m. CST

    I think it's obvious...

    by cifra

    Sylar is Magneto. Bad guy turns into good guy or the final saviour of the world, that's why nobodoy comes back in time and prevents him of getting ANY power, for starters. The Cheerleader is just the excuse to have these guys interacting with Sylar so he can fulfill his future. I honestly think that's the original plan of the series.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 4:27 a.m. CST

    Reflecto is right

    by evil twin

    This has always been utter shit.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Mohider's "instant powers" formula.

    by gotilk

    They should have inserted a nod to 4400 by including the word "promycin" in there somewhere.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 6:16 a.m. CST

    Claire's Mom

    by NudeandAroused

    Wasn't she killed in season 1? Anyway, Herc's questions have some merit but are too much for me this early in the AM.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 6:42 a.m. CST

    A major improvement

    by Lane_myers111

    Gotta say i hated series 2 and last weeks episodes were abysmal,so much so that for the first time ever i came on here first to read the spoilers and talkback before the show because id gone past caring..i was expecting a major shitfest after what i read but was unbelievable surprised. Great to see no muhinder except for those unbelievably annoying sometimes incomprehensible gibberish voice overs. Pretty much all the bank robbery stuff was great,especially future peters arrival on the scene. Excellent to see the haitian and micah back. Think both their powers are very usefiul and good characters. Cant believe two of the big VILLAINS who escaped have been captured and killed after 3 episodes. And that guy was hardly magneto. Magneto would have ripped that safe out the wall. Hate the fact that they've brought back ali larter in such a contrived way. Ditch Larter,Mohinder,Nathan and possibly Parkman,cut down on the timetravel and bring in two greater characters and we may have a decent chance of recovery.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 7:36 a.m. CST

    It may have turned into shit but, you know what?

    by IAmMrMonkey!

    It still managed to entertain me for its entire duration. I'm not sure what that says about me, really, but the show still did its job. It may have plot holes the size of a giant's asshole, but it moved fast, had some impressive sequences (the moment where Future Peter stopped time was a nice repeat of Future Hiro doing the same thing in season one) and kept me wondering what wacky plot twist they were going to introduce next.<p>Big props also to Life. That show is amazing. It's a shame but I fear it may go the way of Twin Peaks/Firefly/Daylight pretty soon based on ratings.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Oh by the way.....

    by Psynapse

    QUOTE: "Nope. Claire indeed can be killed, as can Adam and Peter and Sylar, too. Decapitation does a pretty good job. We think Sylar was just fucking with Claire. "<P>This is quoted directly from CBR's "Behind the Eclipse" column of this week so anyone and everyone decrying my "chop the fucker's head off" method of disposing of Sylar (and if ever necessary Claire, and Adam), can suck my hairy balls. Go on, suck 'em. You know you like it.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Officially Nuked The Fridge

    by ls420

    what a shame, ill still watch, but its really lost its magic

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Over

    by kesoze4

    Those who've said it sucked from the getgo are correct. It has. There was some serious potential on this show. To all those whining about why we're still watching if we hate it? It's because we keep HOPING it'll get better. But after a really just-okay first season (Claire surviving her nuked home episode was the only great episode) and terrible second, it's become clear that they have no idea what they're doing on this show, and have just decided that constantly time-traveling to a destroyed future and arbitrarily changing characters' personalities will go ignored by the shows' fans. Guys, to all of you who used to enjoy watching -- THEY DON'T RESPECT YOU, so why do you still defend them? With so much great unwatched television out there, it's time to try something else. RIP Journeyman.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 10:18 a.m. CST

    re: bacci40

    by _Maltheus_

    Oh that's right. Thanks.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 10:53 a.m. CST

    I don't mind turning off my brain...

    by Banzai Rootskibango

    ...as long as I'm entertained and Heroes does that for me. I agree that it has it's faults and blunders...even the assessment of the characters from above...but not every show can be LOST, right?

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Heroes Sucks

    by The Alienist

    But FRINGE just keeps getting better and better!!

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST

    I don't understand the creative decisions.

    by Homer Sexual

    Ok, one person posted that Sylar is the star of the show, but most viewers I read here or talk with feel that Sylar is way overexposed and it is lame that they can't come up with other nemeses. <p> And the creators just loooove to focus on Peter Petrelli. I have never read here or spoken with even one single person who is a fan of Peter Petrelli. TPTB must know this,yet the show continues to focus on Peter Petrelli. <p> Claire is a popular character, and so is HRG. But they can't figure out how to use these characters effectively. <p> Mohinder....who likes Mohinder? Who finds Mohinder intersting? Anyone?.... <p> Elle is very popular, so let's keep her character minimal. What is up with that? <p> Matt continues to be lame, Hiro and Ano have become lame, with a falling-out between them the only way to make them interesting again. <p> I will give some credit for creating Daphne, who everyone likes. For casting Jesalyn Gilsig, who is great. For making Ali Larter's character(s) way, way better this year. But what is the deal when Niki/Jessica/Tracy is the most interesting character. <p> Heroes days are numbered.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST

    There is still hope

    by shaft478

    The Hiro and Ando story has potential to be interesting. I'm curious as to how Ando gets powers or if that was the real Ando that kills Hiro. I hate where they're taking Sylar, but at least he's back to being a prominent character. Kill Parkman, Mohinder, the poison girl, and Claire. They're all useless. Might as well kill Peter too.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Why is Sylar stealing powers?

    by David Cloverfield

    It's not like he uses anything other that telekinesis. Would freezing the fire guy cost so much? He has radioactive powers, wikipowers, freezing powers, golding powers, he's supposed to see the fucking future... He's practically a demi-god, even more so than Peter, who has to work on his powers. What does he do? Choke people. I don't want much, just some reminder that he's fucking dangerous.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Also, S3 is the complete opposite of s2

    by David Cloverfield

    Things move crazy fast. Saying it's he same old shit is just not true. I'm sure they're scratching their heads now. "We've put twice as much into three episodes than into the entire second season, and they're still complaining?" I hope it'll get better.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Telekinetic choking

    by Napoleon Park

    is cool because it's a Darth Vader power. Still, David, I can't wait to see Sylar turn someone to gold and then break off bits and melt them down to fund himself. You are right, the shows kinetically fast paced now and with all the action, plot twists and special effect superheroics. They're obviously trying to give the fans what they were asking for, but now the bitchers and whiners are asking for something else just to complain. You'd almost think that griping in an internets forum was more fun than watching TV or reading comics.<p>Shaft, I'm hoping that Ando doesn't get powers and that the Superawesome Future Ando that Hiro saw was someone using a shapeshifting ability to get close to him. Odd Hiro hasn't figured that out.<p>And odd that the Heroes haters aren't rushing over to the Pushing Daisies talkback with their "everyone who dies on this show comes back" chanting.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 9:16 p.m. CST

    it blows

    by dr_pepper

    i'm not much of a whiner, but the show has gotten plain stupid and confusing - way too many useless characters that are built up like they are going to mean something and then forgotten about. the only way to save this show is make HRG the main character and tell the story from his point of view. The characters with powers can come and go and be killed or die heroic deaths save a few steady characters. The business with Peter's godlike powers but plain retardness and stupidity in using them is just plain freaking stupid and oh so painful to watch. Hiro - what a waste. Establish that the past is a lost cause. Have him traveling with Peter through time saving the world throughout it's multiple futures as impacted by HRG in the present day. Sylar can be part of those future time threads as well. Keep those 3 god like characters at arms reach "out" of the here and now action with HRG. This allows them to totally let lose with their powers in the future without f*ing with the base of the stories/series that take place in the present with HRG.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 9:20 p.m. CST

    forgot

    by dr_pepper

    The overall arch of the show and Hiro, Peter, and HRG is to save Claire who has been killed/destroyed/lost in limbo by Sylar. Everything will come to an end unless she is saved. Sylar wants the end and is the main nemesis......you get the idea. It might not be original, but it'd be better than the mess this show currently is.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 10:17 p.m. CST

    It's not a matter of turning your brain off...

    by Bob Cryptonight

    ...because that only works if the situation is implausible not illogical. There is no drama on HEROES when the characters DON'T do things that we the audience know they can do...but ONLY the needs of propelling the story forward keep them from acting rationally. This is PURE soap opera formula, where characters and situations can be bent at will by the writers REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED PREVIOUSLY. That's what makes the show so bad. It's truly shows how little talent their writing staff has.

  • Oct. 1, 2008, 11:47 p.m. CST

    To all the whiners......

    by Ka Dargo

    Sylar said it best....."Aren't you curious to see how it all turns out"....or plays out or however he said it. That's the point....cool characters and powers....don't you wanna see how it plays out? Can't all be perfect but the good parts outweigh the bad no?

  • Oct. 2, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST

    No.

    by Psynapse

    Sadly the good DOES NOT outweigh the bad and that's the problem for most folks.

  • Oct. 2, 2008, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Everybody that dyes on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    changes color.

  • Oct. 3, 2008, 1:53 a.m. CST

    Everybody that diets on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    loses weight.

  • Oct. 4, 2008, 3:48 a.m. CST

    everybody that dines on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    gets to keep the salad fork.

  • Oct. 4, 2008, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Everybody that Dianetics on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    is a kook.

  • Oct. 4, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Everybody that's Diana on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    is either a dead princess or Wonder woman.<p>What, not soon enough?

  • Oct. 4, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Everybody that Dial-up's on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    should switch to high speed cable for the faster download times.

  • Oct. 5, 2008, 2:38 a.m. CST

    Everybody that dials on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    gets a wrong number.

  • Oct. 5, 2008, 5:14 a.m. CST

    Everybody that dices on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    rolls a seven.

  • Oct. 6, 2008, 1:26 a.m. CST

    Everybody that diametrically opposes someone

    by Napoleon Park

    Everybody that diametrically opposes someone someone else on this show is, by definition, their arch enemy.

  • Oct. 6, 2008, 1:26 a.m. CST

    everybody that digs on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    is really far out and groovy.

  • Oct. 6, 2008, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Everybody that disses on this show

    by Napoleon Park

    posts to the AICN talkback.

  • Oct. 6, 2008, 9:12 p.m. CST

    I'm out...

    by tile_mcgillus

    That is it. I can't take it anymore. How many alternative apocalyptic futures do we need to see before we become numb to them? How many abandoned characters and gigantic plotholes do I have to ignore to enjoy the show? FUCK IT. This show is more of a chore than entertainment. Worst fall from grace of a TV show ever.