Cool News
Mr Sword Guy is doing battle work in LORD OF THE RINGS!
Hey folks... Looks like Mr Sword Guy is going to be kicking orc, hobbit, goblin, elf and human arse in LORD OF THE RINGS! Man... I can't wait! Here's the scoop....
Bob Anderson (who's done sword-choreography for "Star Wars," "The
Princess Bride," and "The Mask of Zorro") will apparently be working on
at least the first movie, "The Fellowship of the Ring."
Kevin Hurley
In Da Movies
-
+ Expand All
-
MEESA DONT GIVE A RATS GUNGUN IF IM FIRST, BUT I AM, SO WHOOPISY DOO
-
Strong approval here. Now can we have some casting, p-p-please?
-
Something wrng with your "Caps Lock" key, dumbass?
-
Jun 23, 1999 12:36:42 PM CDT
MEESA THINKS CAPLOCKS ARENT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN OUR WORLD TOD
by jar jar binks
MEESA DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE THAT ANAL RETENTIVE
-
Oh I am so happy. Not so much because I love swordfights and took fencing in college, but because this means that all aspects of the film are getting the obsessive attention LOTR deserves. Hail Jackson!
-
That's all I had to say!
-
If it is, they just said the guy was working on a film in New Zealand. They got a head-nod confirmation it was LOTR, but the logical project would be Star Wars Episode 2, wouldn't it? I can't get excited until I know what the deal really is. It would be sad if E2 doesn't have Bob Anderson.
Hey Jar Jar, dude, go light on the caffine! -
At the risk of being stoned to death by angry readers of AICN talk back, I'm going to post who I think the perfect world casting would be for the character of Aragorn. A group of friends and I were discussing "The Lord of the Rings" project the other day and I mentioned that I thought George Clooney would be a terrific Strider. I thought I would hear a bunch of moaning and groaning, and a reminder of the cinematic masterpiece which was "Batman & Robin." ( Insert strong tone of sarcasm.) Amazingly, they all loved the idea. They loved it so much they wanted me to shout it out on the Internet and get people talking about it. Well, here goes: If George Clooney is listening out there, have your agent call Peter Jackson's agent! Okay, people, try not to hit the face! Please. Okay?
-
If true, this is good news. However, more important is the "look' of the film and the casting. Pleeeaaase! No Richard Gere or Danny Devito!
-
I want to hate the idea of Dr. Ross as Aragorn but I think it might work. On another note, some have posted that Sauron should be depicted in the movie(s). This would be a major mistake, reducing him to the level of the other inhabitants of Middle Earth. Besides, it is clear from the books that while Sauron was once able to appear in physical form, he lost that power after being defeated at the end of the Second Age by the Last Alliance.
-
Personally, I don't have anything against Clooney (unless he had something to do with the writing of Batman and Robin, which he didn't).
However, something people forget is that Strider is supposed to be *UGLY*.
From all the swooning women do over Clooney, I don't think he'd quailfy. -
1. For those of you who didn't know, Claudia Christian is NOT in these movies, so qwitcherbellyachin. **** 2. Good to see that LOTR is getting a great sword wrangler or fight choreographer or what have you, but I never thought of LOTR as being about hand-to-hand swordfights so much as huge, Braveheart-style battles. **** 3. George Clooney as Aragorn? NAAAAAH. I like Clooney OK but he's not right. Too much a modern screen idol. (This from the guy who suggested Mel for he same part. But hopefully you get where I was going with that.) I'm really starting to think that Aragorn should be an unknown, to contrast with Frodo (and probably Gandalf) being a known quantity.
-
4. Where did we get this thing about Strider being ugly? He's CREEPY and dark, at least when the hobbits first meet him. That doesn't preclude him being handsome (although he shouldn't be a pretty-boy...he definately is getting up there interms of age). Remember, Aragorn is basically in DISGUISE throughout Fellowship, but he is noble and kingly and heroic later on. Kings, at least in the sort of Homeric fairy-tale mythic world that Tolkein envisioned, are by definition not ugly. **** 5. I don't recall Sauron being an ethereal creature. He lost his "fair form" after Numenor was drowned, but he was still solid. Remember, at one point a character refers to him as missing a finger (the one that he wore the ring on, that Isildur hacked off, right?) so how could he be "solid"?
-
Alright listen up. I am a true Tolkien Scholar. Ive read everything Middle earth and Ive been standing quietly by for the past year or so and have read these posts without saying anything. I am sorry but I can not sit in silence any longer. Listen up! Lord of the Rings is not something to take lightly. I hear all of these stupid suggestions about having these sleazy hollywood actors play what I think is the most important work of the 20th century. ONLY unknowns should play in the movie or lesser known actors. To have well knowns in the movie would destroy the image of middle earth. When this movie comes out it should not just be a normal movie it should be something to be held special. I cringe at the thought of all the people who will read the books after watching the movie and have people like Sean Connery or George Clooney and Elijah Wood being pictured in their minds as important characters. It would kill the magic of LOTR. At least wih unknowns they could keep that unique feeling people get from reading LOTR. PETER JACKSON, DONT CAVE IN TO WHAT THESE FREAKING FANBOYS ARE SAYING. kEEP THIS MOVIE UNIQUE LIKE THE BOOKS. DONT CAST KNOWN ACTORS AND ESPECIALLY DONT CAST ELIJAH WOOD. FRODO WAS 52 ALTHOUGH HE APPEARED TO BE ABOUT 30. MAKE THIS MOVIE FOR LOVERS OF MIDDLEEARTH NOT FOR HOLLYWOOD. I BEG YOU. I HAVE BEEN WAITING TOO LONG FOR THIS TO HAVE IT TURN OUT TO BE A CAMEO MOVIE. As for the rest of you posters, stop with the lame suggestions. Instead of naming actors for parts describe what you want for a part. It makes it more interesting.
-
I mean I'm thrilled that this movie is getting expert attention. But nothing really on the level of Ep 1 is called for in LOTR. LOTR battles and fights consist of mass hacking and blood, like real battles. A bunch of people rush each other with sharp pointed objects, and a whole bunch of very nasty, painful, and unglamorous dying ensues. There are simply no snappy fights or duels in LOTR. In the Silmarillion however, there are plenty - Fingon and Morgoth, Beren/Luthien and Sauron, Gothmog and Ecthelion, Glorfindel and the Balrog, Hurin and a bunch of orc pieces, Tuor and that nasty elf dude (Eol's son). But probably the closest we get in LOTR is Eomer and Ugluk, which is mentioned only for the fact that we didn't witness it. As much as I am looking forward to this movie, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if Strider and Gandalf (and Gimli) start doing a bunch of cool-looking-but-pointless flips and acrobatic mumbojumbo. In a battle with this level of technology, when two armies collide everybody on both sides in the first three rows should die ignominiously within the first 15 seconds. I've come to appreciate that quick and nasty deaths are much more effective and poignant that long drawn out shakespearean oscar-winning death throes. Plus they don't paper over the fact that war is a nasty horrible business - something Tolkien was very familiar with. Anyway that's my two cents. Oh yeah, one more thing. That Jar Jar dude who posts everything in all caps is getting on my nerve. Hey Jar Jar, we get the point. Joke. Ha ha. Now find another one. (Reminds me of how Saturday Night Live would have a good joke and then beat it into the ground like a dead snake and go back and beat it some more, until it was just pathetic.) Anyway, I guess that's an extra cent. -CG
-
Aragorn was not ugly. He was of the line of the Numenorians which were of elven blood. When Frodo says that he thinks that Saurons SPIES would feel foul and seem fair, Aragorn says so I seem foul and feel fair. He wasnt refering to his looks but mare to his appearance. Aragorn was a Ranger and Rangers are travelers. He was probably rough looking and weather worn. Im sure he didnt have much chance to bathe or cut his hair things like that. Even Mel Gibson would look pretty bad if he lived Aragorns life. But I am sure after he got cleaned up he didnt look so bad.
-
I can confirm that Bob Anderson won't be involved with Ep 2, because he was the coordinator for the original trilogy - Ep. 1 had stunt coordinator Nick Gillard and Martial Art Artists/Actor Ray Park coducting the fight scene and the Jedi training. It's most likely that the people who were involved with E1 fight cooridination will do E2. So, Boba Anderson is really invovle in the LOTR trilogy (sorry for using that word, but that's what New Line put!).
-
Well, slap me twice and call me Aunt Bessie! A Tolkien Scholar! Hey Everyone! This dude's a Tolkien Scholar! How royal! Should we bow? Or are you too humble for that? (Probably not.) Tolkien Scholar my ass! It's a movie dude! No, I don't want Clooney or Bruce Willis or Mel Gibson to deliver sandwiches to the set, let alone act in them. But jumpin' geehosephats! Word of the day: perspective. Oh, and by the way, when you try and claim to be a learned scholar or some such shite, don't give the game away by going off on a teen-angst-ridden tantrum. It just makes you look silly. A good many of the posters who are keeping tabs on this movie have probably read just as much, if not more than you. So don't go around bragging like a fool. (It's like going into the Four Seasons and yelling "I've got lot's of money, everybody! I'm frikin rich!" ... no, on second thought, that's much more funny than your rant.) Sorry for the wasted post, but Sheesh! -CG
-
A lot of us have been reading Tolkien for years. Do you have a degree in Tolkienology? No? Well then, just relax yourself. Everyone has an image in his or her mind how Middle Earth and the various characters should look and this is unique to each individual. I'm sure when the movie does come out you will pan it because it doesn't match YOUR expectations. However, you have to realize that there will almost certainly be some known actors cast in various roles to attract an audience beyond Tolkien Scholars. Try to enjoy the movie for what it is...a movie. Whether its good or bad, people will still be enjoying Prof. Tolkien's written works centuries from now.
-
jar jar man, you rock, keep it up, but now since we all got your attention and realize you rule, do all your stuff in lower caps, your fans will still be reading your special brand of humor and opinions on these rather controversial talk backs. good luck my gun gun friend. and dont mind that ohreak dude, he just wishes he was a hacker or something.
-
I dont want this movie to suck. Period. I am one of those many people out there who read Tolkien seriously and to us this movie IS a big deal. I am puttin in my opinion just like every other person in the talk back and to me the idea of making a movie is rather unnerving. I dont want them to screw it up and I think putting hollywood actors in it will. If you dont like what I got to say fine but I am going to say it all the same.
-
No one is saying you don't have a right to your opinion. However, when you grow up you will find out that people don't take your opinions very seriously when you talk down to them.
-
A lot of people have state (nay, demanded) that the LOTR movie be made not for the great unwashed masses out there but for the Fans. As a die-hard Tolkien lover - not a Tolkien scholer, though; I don't know the secret handshake - I strongly disagree. We fans don't NEED the movie, although we're dying to see it, because we already have the book. It's the poor souls out there who haven't read it yet that deserve the movie. Nothing will make me happier than seeing LOTR break Titanic's back. Also, Tolkien may be the best, but there's plenty of other great fantasy writers out there, waiting to be filmed. If the film is a smash hit, we may be seeing stuff from Donaldson, Jordan, Feist and many others. So I'm willing to make some concessions.
-
You know in his own arrogant way i think our "Tolkien Scholar" had a point. These movies are going to be good whether they have known or unknown actors in them I think, but for example with Star wars it did so well without well knowns. One of the problems with Ep 1(which I did not like too well) was that it did not have unknowns like the original trilogy. I personally think this movie will do better with unknowns.
-
The films could probably bear itself witout any stars because it
-
OK, never read more then two words of this whole Middle Earth saga--can't remember much about the cartoon, either, otherr then that weird guy saying "Precious" all the time. Where should I start? E-mail me directly if you want. I'm 27, is it too late?
-
While I agree that everybody has their own definitive vision of what LOTR should look and feel like, to say that ONLY unknown actors should be allowed to even consider roles in these films is just plain silliness. When I watch a film, I dont think to myself *hey that Tom Hanks sure is putting in a good performance isnt he?*. In any good acting performance the actor BECOMES the part, they lose their own identity and become the character for the audience. Many KNOWN actors are brilliant at achieving this.
Also, its amazing how people always want to refer to Star Wars as being cast completely with unknowns. Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing were both long-time legends when Star Wars was released.
In any case, whatever happens in LOTR, I don;t doubt my own personal ability to enjoy the characters for their place in the epic, and not worry about being distracted by a famous face. Im just going to be soooo elated that my favorite ever books are being brought to the screen FOR REAL, and not in some cheesy Rankin-Bass crayon-and-fingerpaint job.
Just my 2 -
I don't like the idea of New Zealand being the filiming place. Everyone knows New Zealand, it will take away from the magic. I suggest Peter Jackson find some unknown deserted island and film there. Unknowns!!! All unknowns!! IT must be all unknowns!!
-
George Clooney? Elijah Wood? Keanu fucking Reeves?
LOTR was written by a stuffy Oxford don in The Kings English; The Shire was his idea of an ideal England. Gotta use English actors for the main roles, anything like an American accent will reek of Hollywood. And the kind of wobbly imitations offered by actors like Reeves would really hurt the overall believability. May I suggest the frightfully British Peter O'Toole for Denethor?
***
And if I may: Strider is physically a pretty good-looking guy, but you don't notice it at first because he's so scruffy and bitter. Once he's cleaned up and begins to come into his own you begin to understand what an elf-maiden would see in him.
-
What does everyone think about what should be done with the Wheel of Time, assuming Jordan ever finishes it? I think it would probably be best as a limited-run series, the way Babylon 5 had a time limit of five seasons from the get-go. There's just too much material there even for a miniseries.
-
that looks and acts just like Jeremy Irons!I think Anderson was the stunt coordinator in the original trilo,not the prequels.One thing about LOTR is the lack of battles and duels in the first book.Maybe a long drawn out scene of the Second Age Numenorian battles that was recalled by Elrond or of the kickass Gandalf-Balrog duel?Imagine a final-doomed heroic -last-stand as in the Kurosawa film Ran for Boromir.Standing all alone with arows stuck in his torso;leaning heavily on his sword as a pack of orcs encircled him.....
-
they have surfaced. The true tolkien lovers!!! UNKNOWNS!!! ALL UNKNOWNS!!!! This movie will only work correstly if unkowns play all the important parts!!! Unknowns I say and may all the posters who want well knowns choke on their popcorn during the film!!! HA HA HA HA!!!!!
-
Its gonna be a nightmare its what it's gonna be!Sam shouting Cooee! everytimee he searches for Frodo!Gandalf saying it's ben a long time since he sat and had/'a spot o' tea with Bombadil(that jolly good fellow,god bless his soul)!!"well i'll never!DDo not speak of that HORIBLY DREADFUL name(Sauron) in my presence again !"
-
OK, while I would want the accents etc. to be right for everyone else, I think it may be OK for the hobbits to have American accents. Bear with me, here's my reasoning. Tolkien created this mythic, complex, strange world in which characters don't talk like real people. They talk in fancy prose. Everyone is larger than life...except the hobbits. (They're smaller than life, get it?) The hobbits represent heart and humanity and decency in an otherwise remote world. They are our link to this strange and otherwise inhuman story. Hence, while everyone else is talking like Shakespeare or the bible, the hobbits talk and think like rural Englishmen circa 1930's-40's. Lo and behold, Tolkien wrote the book in rural England in the 1930s and 40s. The hobbits are modelled on the present day of whichever audience is discovering the story. Now, I'm not saying I want them to drive cars and use street slang. But I don't think an American accent or two would be out of place, since the hobbits are already from a different world as the rest of the story.
-
yeah thats about right .You can actuallynfind essays in the Net on LOTR that traces the language of Middle Earth to the historical languages of Europe(the people of the Dales are modelled after Norse)
-
Hobbits are a bridge between us and the wide wide world of Tolkien.The book was written at the turn of the century and for an English audience while the movie will be made at the next turn of the century and mainly for an American audience at that(secondly global).
-
Could someone tell me why PJ was chosen to direct such a high profile trilogy? If you ask me, this is quite a risk.
-
When I first read LOTR as a kid, only one guy ever came to mind for Strider... Leonard Nimoy... after all, in the late seventies he was gettin' good and guant. A little personal trainer work and viola! He's there. Alas, he's probably a bit past the age for this character. But I agree about one thing: unknowns are the way to go for this flick! (And if anyone casts William Hurt for the role, it's letter-bomb time!)
-
Jun 23, 1999 9:00:09 PM CDT
My George Clooney idea, and the beating I knew was gonna get
by rodzilla
I want to thank Morgoth3 and a couple of others out there for at least defending me a little bit on the George Clooney thing. I knew someone would step up and intellectually bitch slap me around. Tolkien Scholar is certainly passionate about this topic, and basically that post blew his stack. I was quite insulted by the bit calling everyone here a bunch of FANBOYS. What in the world does Tolkien Scholar consider himself? He seems much more obsessed than anyone! I have read the books, by the way. I read them the first time when I was in the fifth grade, and I reread them in college. They are terrific. Timeless. Epic. I love them too. I was just expressing that Clooney, in both his appearance and general demeanor, fits my mind's eye picture of Aragorn. Sorry if I upset you. You should realize, however, that these are fairly big budget features and will likely have some familiar faces from the Hollywood talent pool involved. I'm afraid I agree with Morgoth3 on this point: Tolkien Scholar is going to HATE, HATE, HATE this film series because it will never live up to the films he would make in his mind.
-
Who can tell?Stranger things has happened.....Anybody seen Finian's Rainbow before?This from a guy that wwent on to direct 'Taxi Driver'.Personally I'm judging Peter Jackson's work based on a single movie,Beautiful Creatures.Great movie making.Maybe my faith for Peter Jackson comes from his 'little sell' at the end of the first QNA.He's obviously a Tolkien fan.My personal choice for director woulda been the director for 'A Little Princess'
-
I don't think that LOTR wwas supposed to be high profile.Peter Jackson ahas mentioned that it was supposed to be on ly one movie and then later on a mini series like Merlin(horror of horors!).If I'm not mistaken , he switched studios and personally campaigned for a trilo.Maybe his demo reel of his WETA works on LOTR impressed the suits enough to make it into a high profile movie....
-
I'm sick of all these fools that say that LOTR will suck if it has American actors. If he or she is a good actor, that should be all that matters, especially if they are good with changing their accents. Saying that an American can't do these type of roles would be like saying someone British can't do an American role.
-
Don't mess with New Jersey. We've got road rage.
-
Yo,Yo... Peter Jackson is directing this film because it is the greatest epic of all time. And he loves the books as the rest of us do. I find it very interesting how many diferent views there are about Tolkien. From scholars to fanboy geeks, everybody has experinced LOTR's in their own way. Who's right? There are people who study every detail others who simply enjoy!! This person read them once, another eight times. Me personally have read them outloud to my daughter at night. I love it!!!!!!! Peace!!!!!
-
Deep Space is over. Great in Commitments, The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill and Came Down a Mountain, and even played a good heavy in Under Seige. He's got the range, experience, accent and the curly hair. Nuff Said.
-
This sounds crazy, but bare with me. Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin (with help from Jimmy Page) could write a beautiful score for these films. Think about it, he's already a huge fan of the series, just listen to his songs Ramble On, The Battle of Evermore, and Misty Mountain Hop, all with referneces to los libros. Plus, he can write very medieval, very mystical songs, with flutes, strings, and what not. He could do the movies justice, just like Peter Jackson. Who better to direct the movies than a die hard fan, and who better to compose the score than another die hard fan?
-
I read long ago on Cinescape's site that Lee is a big fan of LOTR. I think he would be an excellent choice for Gandalf. Sort of an Alec Guiness type figure to play off of the (hopefully) unknowns. Aragorn is basically a Han Solo-type rogue. He need not be some pretty boy. Use someone with a few battle scars, I say.
-
I read long ago on Cinescape's site that Lee is a big fan of LOTR. I think he would be an excellent choice for Gandalf. Sort of an Alec Guiness type figure to play off of the (hopefully) unknowns. Aragorn is basically a Han Solo-type rogue. He need not be some pretty boy. Use someone with a few battle scars, I say. The gravelly voice is a must.
-
To the guy who suggested Robert Plant for the soundtrack - close, but if you really want a 70's progressive rocker, why not go with Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull? I mean, he's been more or less writing the LOTR score for the last 30 years, hasn't he? Think flutes, lots of flutes. Also, as to Peter O'Toole - he'd be the perfect Gandalf, if they could get him sober long enough to film him (the guy's been stoned since 1970).
-
peter jackson knows LOTR..realizing the trilogy as epic fantasy films has been a dream of his. He went to the studio with the idea. He has made films as disparate as "Heavenly Creatures" and "Brain Dead" (aka "Dead Alive"...this talented fellow can handle LOTR. As to casting all unknowns, with the budget that he's been granted, New Line is within rights to request one or two "bankable" stars just to cover their corporate asses...they ain't in this for charity, folks! I'm all for the best performers for each role...if it turns out that an established star is cast as Gandalf and he's fantastic in the role, how can it hurt the film? Trust Mr. Jackson...he's a talented and creative fellow with a love for the material. Let me exit with a playful nudge of the memory cells to Morpheus--it was Coppola who directed "Finian's Rainbow", not Scorcese....and so "Apocalypse Now" instead of "Taxi Driver"....but your point was still made and a good one!
-
Sorry, Morpheus, if stiffness and Britishness offends. Do you really think Brits speak like that? Cearly you confuse being British with being English (and people throughout the centuries have died for less). I'm sure the Scots out there would agree, as would the Welsh and the Northern English, and the Cornish, etc, etc. A little piece of advice: don't make sweeping statements which include a wide range of people, if you are simply annoyed at one individual. Remember that a "Stiff ass Brit" wrote LotR, and the Hobbit and things Middle-Earth. And P.S. - the Hobbits and Wizards are the typical English - the rest are European. American accents are fine for other roles, provided the actor can carry off the part (and that is, after all, what really matters - whether they are famous or not).
-
You have no idea what you say, therefore, as a human being, I forgive you. To mock LotR is a SIN and your judgement will come. For now, rant all you like, but naught will you avail by doing so.
-
GODDAMN!!! Peter Jackson, will you give the cast list before I donkeypunch your ass? I know all of us are having a grand time arguing about this person and the other but really - do any of us have any clue as to who will play what part? Any of us? Anybody have any info I havent heard yet? Cause Im dying here! I know hes got the casting done! I know hes got his list and hes just laughing at all these fans!! I want the cast list NOW!!! Im tired of speculation, I want to know who is what and when. Filming starts in another 2-3 months, and we still dont even know whos in the movies!!!! ARRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all.
-
Thanks, Celt, for your earlier response to Morpheus regarding his insulting and inflammatory comments about "Brits". As a Scot, the points you made reflected my own reaction to his/her ill-considered statements. And in response to Petrov, who suggested Colm Meaney as Sam, I must admit that I was rather intrigued by your idea. IMHO, you're right - he does look like I imagine a hobbit might (given that they're going to use CGI to "shrink" the hobbit actors) and he does indeed have appropriately curly hair. How hairy are his feet, though? :) And I suppose, given his age, that Sam is the only one of the LOTR hobbits he could reasonably play - he's too old for Frodo, Merry or Pippin, and too young for Bilbo. Nice idea.
-
And Legolas wasn't blond. Just thought I'd throw that in. (It has as much to do with the original topic as any of the other posts.) -CG
-
Funny, I was thinking this morning we'd probably see a soundtrack of recycled Yes, Rush & Led Zeppelin tunes...
Though it's true that Robert Plant used Tolkein imagery in his lyrics, it's a bit of a stretch to think they'd be suitable... I quote:
"In the darkest depths of Mordor/I met a girl so fair/ but Gollum the evil one/crept up and slipped away with her (-er, her-er, her-er, yeah)"
Seeing how there were no "babes" in Mordor and Gollum never showed any interest in "gettin' some"... (and Led Zep never really appeared in Middle Earth to my recollection, making Plant's chance groupie encounter as mentioned above seem a bit dubious) I wonder if he'll be fielding calls from the producers.
Now, if anyone suggests Roger Dean (Yes cover artist) for the movie poster, I'll screaaaaaammmm.... -
Let's not forget that we are talking just Fellowship
here, it has no epic battles yet, but it has some
idividual combat: battle with Wargs, fight with
Orcs in Moria, and I bet they'll show the
fight of Gil-Galad, Elendil and Isildur with Sauron.
It's not an important part of the story, I agree,
but still if they make them cool fights I won't object. -
Legolas' hair wasnt blond?! I could've sworn it was . . . would somebody please tell me what color it really is then? Please?
-
I was curious to see what Mr. Jackson has done in the past, so I rented The Frightners the other night. The special effects were good, but as for the rest of the movie it sucked. I AM FRIGHTENED!! If this is any indication of what Mr. Jackson's talents as a director are then I hope that he wakes up and figures out his craft. Not just for my expectations of what this movie represents, but for the sake of the seminal work of epic fantasy that is LOTR. Let's just hope that he gets it right and J.R.R.'s ghost doesn't come back, ala The Frightners, and haunt Mr. Jackson.
-
Ahhh. Intelligent posts. Intelligent questions. About Legolas' hair: Now I admit, I haven't read the books in about two years (I'm currently reading them, but I'm only still in the Shire). But Legolas was a Sylvan elf, son of King Thranduil. They were pretty much all dark haired. Of the three elf houses (breeds, for lack of a better word), only the Vanyar were blond. The other two - the Noldor and the Teleri - were dark haired. In fact, it was probably uniformly black hair, but I can't back that up right now. And Legolas, being a Wood elf, was a Teleri. Anyway, the reason people think of him as blond probably stems entirely from the Bakshi movie, where because of time constraints and ineptness, they merged Glorfindel with Legolas. Glorfindel was the elf lord who found Strider and Co in the wilderlands west of rivendell and helped them get back there. He was blond; he is described as such, and his name even means something like Golden-hair. (Don't ask about the difference between Glorfindel in LOTR and Glorfindel in the Silmarillion. I don't know the answer. I know sometimes the LOTR one is given the additional II to indicate "the second," but I don't think that was Tolkien's idea (some encyclopedist or whatnot?).) As for the battle scenes, I know there's quite a few good ones. And I'm looking forward to all of them. But they're really hack-n-slash jobs if you get right down to it. The warg attack has more to do with arrows than swords - it's really a scene that picks up the tempo of the book, but in terms of sword play, I think Aragorm and Boromir and Gimli each get in a good one or two slashes. That's it. True, a little more could be done with the orcs in Moria, but not much. The Fellowship knoew that any prolonged battle would end up with them succumbed to the massive numbers of orcs and trolls (not to mention the Balrog). So they made the fight as quick as they could. Maybe there could be a few neat swordplay tricks at Helms Deep, when Aragorn and Eomer (and Gimli) rush outside the wall, but that scene is supposed to be remarkable in how quickly Aragorn & Co dispatch the orcs. And as for the Pellennor (sp?), the thought of a duel taking place in the midst of a huge war is just silly. So yes, there are some chances for good sword play in the hack-and-slash variety, but not SW Ep1 type duels ("every strike a chess move," in some dude's words). I guess that was my only point. -CG
-
Hey dude. As for the best way to read them the first time, I can only say how I read them and my reactions. I first read LOTR. It took me a month to get through the first book. I was playing lots of video games at the time... Wizardry and stuff. I had no clue what I was getting myself into. The beginning seemed a bit slow, and I had no idea what the plot was supposed to be (except in general terms from the dust jacket and preface). Plus I was pretty young. But still the dialogue and tone and the mystery of the ring all got me hooked. Of that month that I read the Fellowship, probably three weeks was getting out of the shire and Bree. The Two Towers took me a week to read. And I read the Return of the King in two days flat. It was summer and I didn't have anything else to do; I can still remember clearly my mother telling me to go swimming or play outside or something and me ignoring her. Anyway, I was a bit confused about the back story (the Hobbit) because LOTR does talk about it a bit. So tried to find a copy of the Hobbit, and in the meantime I read LOTR again. When I read the Hobbit, basically I knew most of the general plot, but it still helped to clear some things up. The I read the Silmarillion. And then I read them all over again. Then I became a fanatic and I started reading everything about Tolkien I could get my hands on. Christopher Tolkien had only just started publishing the History of Middle-earth, and I gobbled up every volume. I know most of that is probably irrelevant to your question, but I still have trouble trying to decide if I should tell people to read LOTR first, or the Hobbit. Because quite frankly, the Hobbit is geared much more towards a younger audience. It's still a fantastic book, but LOTR is much more powerful, much deeper, and much more engaging in the long run. In fact, I'm trying to get a friend of mine hooked so I'll have some more people to have endless discussions about the movie with. (He's a skiffy geek, but for some reason he refused to read them. Don't ask me why.) I gave him one of my copies of LOTR (yes, one of them; I have three), but not the Hobbit. I guess him being skeptical made me want to give him the big kahuna one first. for someone who really wants to read them, I don't know. If your committed to reading them, I guess I'd say read the Hobbit first, with the understanding that LOTR is much more mature and dark and sad. Good luck. -CG
-
No, it's not an earth shattering movie, but I still thought it was ok. Go rent Dead Alive. That'll really throw you for a loop! Anyway, I still think that someone offbeat like PJ will do a much better job than say... anyone in Hollywood. Also, remember tat George Lucas was virtually unknown except for American Grafitti. Imagine the direct of THAT wanting to do a space flick. No wonder people were skeptical.... Am I the only one still on this talkback?... Oh well... -CG
-
Tolkien does refer to Legolas as having "dark hair." I'm pretty sure it's in the two towers somewhere (help anyone?)
If you read the history of Middle Earth series there's an interesting tidbit in the last volume Peoples of Middle Earth concerning Glorfindel. It seems that Tolkien himself was a little confused by the two Glorfindels and decided that they were in fact the same person after all, possibly re-incarnated- a-la-Beren and Luthien.
Final two cents, I trust Peter Jackson's casting weather it's unknowns or big names. Anyone who cares enough to hire Alan Lee and John Howe for the production artwork is going to find the best Aragorn his money can buy. -
Me! Heck, I'm an unknown and who knows if I can act. According to half the posts I'd be perfect. :)As long as PJ keeps me waiting, I'm with Eriol. Tell us the official cast so we can stop this cast wishing/guessing. True it's fun, but maddening. Halcyon, thanks for the second on Colm Meaney as Sam. I don't guess I'll get one for me as Aragorn.
-
This is a copy of a scoop I sent to Harry, but i can't wait for him to print it :
Swedish actress Izabella (GoldenEye)Scorupco was named in the swedish newspaper "Expressen"today. She has just finished a swedish film called "Dykaren"(The Diver), in wich she plays a Polish prostitute that falls in love with a swedish sailor. Also starring is Klaus (Never Say Never Again) Maria Brandauer, not playing the sailor. There has been silence about Izabella for a while but she has had a child and not making any movies, except a polish one. Maybe you know that Martin Campell wanted her for Mask Of Zorro, but then Steven Spielberg saw that Titanic mini series... -
These are actors who embody my vision of LOTR characters; however, I generally think well-known actors should be used sparingly, e.g., Cate Blanchett as Eowyn.
Aragorn=David Strathairn (Theseus in -
I would like to preface this by saying that this is my first post ever. I have read the trilogy at least three times, and consider it to be the most profound fiction ever written, nothing could ever take its place. I want to bring up a couple points, and questions. First, could anyone shed light on what exactly they think Tom Bombadil is? Is he a man, or some sort of wood spirit, or even some sort ancient descendant of the ent lineage? Second, does anyone agree with me when I say that some of the nature imagery in the movie "Legend" was superb and perhaps partly what some of LOTR should look like. Finally, cuthbert51, you are an idiot. I cant believe you said "The story is not engaging", and "only a halfway decent read"! There are only 2 possibilities here: 1) you never read the books and are only saying that to get a rise out of other posters. Or 2) You are the most pitifull, shallow sack of shit on this planet! Later!
-
Jun 24, 1999 8:37:10 PM CDT
Apologies to all present Brits for a moment of unthoughtfulness
by morpheus
Heck LOTR was the book that made me spent hours reading up on Celts and later the other ancient culturees!One thing I realise that Tolkien was creating and describing middle-earth from an archaelogist point of view.which is maybe why he placed much emphasis on language(philology is the best way to study history),less on monuments and buildings(arhaeological sites are ok but still enormous tombstones) and were rather vague in describing appearancces (how much can one deduce from a broken jawbone).Just apoint here......
-
I read LoTR at age ten. I reread it and other Middle Earth books every few years. By today's standards it does move slow in many places, particularly the Fellowship of the Ring's early chapters. When Tolkien wrote, there was not a mass market for fantasy books. Writers wrote in what they considered a literary style. Think War and Peace: a great novel, but real hard to read for people brought up on quick satisfaction pop-culture. I've found the same to be true of LoTR. When you learn to assimilate information at the rate of sound bytes and quick flickers of the computer screen, long plot and character development can seem slow and boring. Today's fantasy reader can go to Barnes and Noble and chose from action oriented books like those written by R.A. Salvatore. He writes for an audience reared on instant gratification.(Note, I like his books too, just a different style) When Tolkien fleshed out the books, T.V. was not invented. People were used to reading stories with long plot and character development. Cuthbert probably likes today's style. But if he doesn't like the books, why is he hanging around this topic?
-
Petrov, I actually agree with you on that point, and I think you brought up a different way of looking at it. However, (you knew it was coming) the story may develop slowly, but that is because it is so rich with characters, and places, and content. It truly has created an entire world with its own languages, races, wars, and so on. Its development is what makes it so powerful, because few other books have the depth that LOTR possesses.
-
I've been thinking about the appearance of this "Mr. Sword" in LotR - most people who post here seem to be expecting one on one sword clashes like Star Wars. But don't forget, there are several places where swords and axes (and bows) get drawn, even if it is only for a brief scuffle. What is the point of showing these "scuffles" if the actors can't actually make the melee convincing. Even in the bigger battles later in the tale, the orcs and the humans are gonna have to make the fighting look convincing - not necessarily the ones way off in the back ground, but certainly the near-shots. Is that where a sword-fight expert-type-of-person might come in useful . . ?
-
Excellent exposition "creamy goodness" on Legolas' "blond" hair. Yes, only the Vanyar, and Noldor of the House of Finwe through his second marriage to Indis of the Vanyar, have blond hair. That includes Galadriel and Glorfindel, but not Legolas, Elrond, Arwen, et al. All other elves had dark hair, which Tolkien mentions in a couple letters equates to his use of the term "raven" as in "black as a raven's wing." Evidently all elves had grey eyes, as that is the only color he mentions for them. Numenoreans (Dunedain) also had grey eyes and dark hair, hence their furhter resemblance to Eldar. However, elves do indeed have pointed ears. The Quenya words "lasse" (leaf -- as in Lego-las - "Green Leaf") and "lhas" or "lassi" (ear) come from the same root. Tolkien's intent was that Eldarin ears were "...leaf-shaped and somewhat more pointed than human [ears]..." So they were the same size of human ears -- definitely NOT anything on the order of Vulcan size and shape or anything -- but still subtly arched and pointed. As to whether Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell were one and the same. The conclusion JRRT eventually "came to" was that they were. He accidently used the sam name twice and didn't intend to. Part of his consternation was that he intended for ALL elves to have a unique name. The whole issue is brought up in several chapters of "Morgoth's Ring," which is Vol. X of "The History of Middle Earth" by Christopher Tolkien. He pulls together several writings his dad was working on referencing that whole issue.
In essence, Tolkien wrote that because Miriel (Finwe's wife) wasted away and died from the vast quantities of life energy she expended giving birth to Feanor, and Finwe grieved so much, and death was NOT supposed to enter the Blessed Realm (Aman), Manwe approached Eru Iluvatar and requested permission to in some way return the Eldar to life. Eru said that the elves who died would remain in Mandos for a certain number of years and then would be given a choice -- to roam Aman as an eternal spirit (similar to a Maia), to be re-housed in a Vala-made copy of their original body, or to be re-born into their clan through their children or children's children. They also, evidently, were generally restricted to Aman, but could by special exception, return to Middle Earth. Here are some excerpts that address it.
Conversation Between Manwe and Eru Regarding the Resurrection of the Elves
Manwe: " . . The First-Born children, whom Thou madest immortal, now suffer severance of spirit and body . . what further should be done?"
Eru: "Let the houseless be re-housed!"
Manwe: "How shall this be done?"
Eru: "Let the body that was destroyed be remade. Or let the naked fea (spirit) be reborn as a child."
NOTE: (Eru then gave the Valar the authority to do either of those tasks through his power and their skill. Eru also tells Manwe that each elf who is put back in bodily form will retain all of their original appearance, memories, skills and powers).
Here is another explanatory excerpt.
The Debate of Finrod and Andreth
In this section, Tolkien says that dead elves were, after their waiting period, summoned from Mandos to Aman and there given the choice to "remain houseless or, if they wished, to be re-housed in the same form and shape as they had had. Normally they must nonetheless remain in Aman. . . Only in exceptional cases, such as Beren and Luthien, will they be transported back to Middle Earth."
Christopher notes that the prerequisites for a "special exception" being allowed appear to be the following: (1) Some connection with a figure carrying the divine spark of the Maiar (such as Luthien), or (2) ensuring the continuance of that divine bloodline, or (3) through some extraordinary deed.
Glorfindel was evidently one of the "special exceptions" for a couple of reasons. He not only accomplished an extraordinary deed (killed a Balrog), but in doing so ensured that the divine bloodline of Melian continued (Glorfindel's victory ensured that Idril and Tuor and (especially) Earendil escaped the fall of Gondolin and survived). Christopher Tolkien also mentions that his father wrote a letter to a friend about the nature of the elves which included a section about "the Resurrection of Glorfindel of Gondolin."
So, it would appear that Glorfindel was indeed "re-housed" in his original form, and was able to return to Middle Earth. However, for the VAST majority of elves, Aman was their resurrection home. So, for all intent and purposes, you were correct, the elves stay in Aman after they are released from Mandos. I believe if I had the choice to live eternally in either Paradise or Earth, Earth would NOT be my first pick. :-)
Advance apologies for the EXTREME length of this post. Hope I didn't put anybody to sleep out there. I am really loving all the indepth and thought-provoking posts that have been cropping up lately. Namarie.
-
I echo Eriol's sentiments. Please PJax, as soon as you can possibly do it, release the official cast list. In fact, I hope to see much more than that. I hope PJax posts on the official website the following: clickable, full-color photos of all principal cast members (isn't it something like 33?), in full costume, with a bio of each. Then I will trule be shouting "EGLERIO!" from the rooftops. OK, now that I got that bit of rampant geekiness out og my system, I'll just say Namarie for now.
-
Elen sila lummen omentielvo, Vanyar! (I hope I got that right - that's from memory) That'll teach me to stop buying the History of middle-earth volumes! (I'm missing the last few... couldn't justify the expense). Anyway, thanks for the exposition. Don't apologize for your post. If morons can post foul-mouthed and mindless insults without apologizing, then you certainly shouldn't. I'm thinking... does Tolkien say HOW Glorfindel got back to middle-earth? Did he possibly come back with Earendil in the War of Wrath? I could see the Valar letting him come back for that, and then him say choosing to stay with, say, Elrond. It makes sense since Glorfindel died to save Tuor and Celebrindal (was Earendil born yet, or was he born outside Gondolin?), Earendil's parents and Elrond's grandparents. Hmmm. And I'm not sure about that whole not dying thing. Why are elves sad if someone dies then? [I originally wrote a big long essay about why it doesn't make much sense, but the logic is pretty simple. So I'll spare you all the read. Anyone can feel free to respond or try and explain or ask me to explain what I mean.] Ferthu hal! -CG
-
Yarg! I profusely apologize to all who read my stupid question about the color of Legolas' hair! I've read the Silmarillion, I knew all of that! He's even described as looking like that! What threw me off was the 50th Anniversary cover that I have on one of my copies of LOTR (I also have the red collectors'). On it he is depicted with Gimli and he has golden blond hair, but he also has blond hair in many artists renderings of him too. Unfortunately, he's often just seen as the "stereotypical" elf of human history, having aryan features and some pointy ears. Tolkien's elves are definitely much more different. Once again, I apologize for my lapse of intelligence. BTW I still want the cast list NOW. Over and out.
-
Jun 25, 1999 12:41:04 PM CDT
And God created the One True Book. I mean the Three True Books.
by godbear
OK, I wasn't even going to touch this but so many people are treating this work like its the Book of the Dead meets the Karma Sutra it's getting kind of annoying. If you think The Lord of the Rings is the greatest piece of written art mankind has ever generated, fine!! But stop saying anyone who has any problem with the friggin books has either never read them (Thus not being brought into the sight of God and blinded into following the path of the righteous) or is so shallow and stupid that they should be supervised night and day for fear of choking to death while attempting to swallow pinball machines. I thought the books were OK. They do drag a bit. And not because I've been superglued to Global Groove all my life and can't concentrate on anything longer than a BlipVert. I've read some pretty long, slow moving books in my day and if they're good I really don't care. Come on people, we're all very different people here. We're not watusi. I like different stuff than you. Don't be mad, butterfly. Just fly on. P.S. One part I really hated was when that moron in the tower just chucks the crystal ball out the freaking window because he's looking to vent some frustration. Oh please. That was just stupid. Obvious plot manipulation. Other than that, I really love the day after day of discussion on how lembas goes from tasting like chocolate covered ambrosia to magical elven saw-dust patties because they eat it so much. Everytime they mentioned anew how it tasted I know I became excited.
-
Hail and well met, Elf Friend! A Star Shines on the Hour of Our Meeting, indeed! Good eidetic memory! MorGoth's comments were right on the mark re: Earendil and why the Eldar are saddened at a death. Also those who remained in Middle would not, in all likelihood, see their loved ones again until they left Endor and went to Aman. They were also saddened when an Adan died, because they knew they would most likely NEVER see them again. Don't know of any reference where JRRT mentions HOW Glorfindel got back to Endor, but your theory makes a LOT of sense. Yes, the "official" LOTR out now has an inaccurate cover -- oh well, if it had been Nasmith he would have gotten it right. Eglerio to you both, and Namarie!
-
I've just read the casting requirements for each character. They say it comes from the Victoria Burrows Casting Agency and I have to say it looks pretty real. But they've gotten a few characters horribly wrong. For example: Boromir "has been oppressed by a domineering and violent father". WHAT??? Boromir was Denethor's favorite son! And this: "Gandalf is frustrated by his failing memory and arthritic knees" There's also "Gimli loves wine and women and song and has a hearty sense of humor". That's only the parts I didn't like but the rest is pretty good. Now, it seems to me that they've made the kind of mistakes that anyone would make on a first read. So I think the question begs to be answered: just how deeply has PJ researched Tolkien's world ? And how much will the story differ from the original ? (Arwen as a warrior princess is nowhere in the original story) It's also interesting to note that for Aragorn, Gandalf, Saruman, Boromir they say "ALSO SUBMIT STAR NAMES". For Denethor, Faramir, Eowyn, Arwen, Legolas they say "PLEASE SUBMIT STAR NAMES". And for Elrond they just say "STAR NAMES". Could there be a difference between "ALSO" and "PLEASE" ? More likely it means the same thing. Namarie
-
You know, its been neat-o and great theorizing about all the cool things that could happen or could be screwed up in FOTR, but I think it would be fun to start talking about the other two books. I mean, we've already been talking about this one for months, but they're all being filmed at the same time - why not talk about them at the same time? Personally, I can't WAIT to see PJs rendition of the Battle of the Pellanor Fields. I think the whole scene should be centered around the destruction of the gates - by that I mean that shifts in the plot focus would happen around the gate destruction, and thats how people would be able to figure out the chronology of the scene - after all a whole lot is going on, and dividing it up like the book does into chapters is too hard to do in a movie. At the end of the Siege of Gondor the last sentence is something like "Rohan had come at last." In the movie, newcomers would be like "Holy shit, those horns were cool, too bad we wont know what they meant for 15 minutes while we lost track of time over Rohan traveling through the mountains." I think it should go something like Theoden's forces quietly assembling, changing back and forth between the gates and that (im not going to complicate this thought with Pippen/Denethor now though I DO want that to be included). Then, the gates are smashed, the confrontation between the Witch-King and Gandalf, music is ominous, cock crows, horns are heard. Scene changes to a sullen Theoden, we see the gates destroyed from afar, music is ominous, Theoden slams upright in his seat, cries his little verse, music begins to rise, blasts the horn, the cry of horns arises, Theoden tears off, music builds to a thunderous roar as the sun sweeps across the field and blazes across his golden shield . .. ahh, its so beautiful in my mind. Yeah, so comment on that and describe others things/scenes from the other volumes. Its time to start talkin about them.
-
I liked Vanyar's etymological evidence for pointy elvish ears. Tolkien would have been proud, we all know his love of language. ;) This is also good for the movies because aside from slightly pointed ears it's hard to see how you'd be able to tell the difference between elves and men onscreen. Things like longevity, etc. don't show up on film.
It seems that not *all* Sylvan elves had dark hair, however. Recall in The Hobbit that when the dwarves and Bilbo were wandering through Mirkwood chasing the wood elves' party, the "woodland king" was described as golden-haired. That's on page 153 of the paperback version I looked at yesterday. I'm inclined to believe that Legolas was dark-haired, but I'd appreciate it if someone could provide an actual quote. It's been said here that he's described as dark-haired in The Two Towers - can anyone find that?
A related issue is Aragorn's facial hair, since he's part elvish. There are references to elves with beards but these seem to be exceptional. I think an Asiatic/Native American type of disposition towards facial hair is the best human example. In other words, when imagining an elf with a beard think Ho Chi Minh, not Karl Marx. For this reason I would like to see Aragorn portrayed as always clean-shaven, since there's no way they'll have thin wispy facial hair on their hero. -
The spectre of the ring wraiths! Sorry. That's the political geek in me. The above poster mentioned thinking about Ho Chi Minh and Karl Marx when thinking about elf beards... I'm just babbling because nobody will read this. I personally have the strongest conviction that I should be hired to sit on the set of filming this movie everyday and watch. -CG
-
That was funny, CG. :) And anyone who recognizes my handle knows that I'm certainly a political geek. :P
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Baz's THE GREAT GATSBY explodes with one helluva dazzling trailer! -- 171 total posts 154 posts
- G.I. JOE: RETALIATION Delayed Nine Months...Thanks To A Force More Sinister Than Cobra!! -- 141 total posts 141 posts
- UPDATED!!! A Six-Pack Of New Character Posters For THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Forecast A Lot Of Gotham Rain And Snow!! -- 265 total posts 129 posts
- Who Is The Voice Of Batman In WB's Animated Two Part THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS? -- 129 total posts 129 posts
- Cats Beware!! An ALF Movie May Soon Come Our Way... -- 126 total posts 126 posts
- Zach Galifianakis Is Ignatius J. Reilly? -- 81 total posts 81 posts
- AICN COMICS REVIEWS: INCREDIBLE HULK! DANGER CLUB! CLiNT 2.1! JAMES BOND! BATMAN INC.! AND MORE!!! -- 62 total posts 62 posts
- The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day… the horror… the horror… -- 45 total posts 45 posts
- Quint has seen Andrew Dominik's crime thriller KILLING THEM SOFTLY starring Brad Pitt! Cannes 2012! -- 41 total posts 41 posts
- The Next Season Of DOCTOR WHO Was Delayed To Fall Just To Build Anticipation?? -- 68 total posts 38 posts