Father Gill convinces Peggy to contribute on a pro-bono church project. To win the business of an imported beer brand, Duck and Don try to create market appeal to a new demographic. Harry is overwhelmed with the workload in his department and recruits assistance from an unlikely source.Titles for season two: 2.1 For Those Who Think Young 2.2 Flight One 2.3 The Benefactor 2.4 Three Sundays 2.5 The New Girl 2.6 Maidenform 2.7 The Gold Violin 2.8 A Night To Remember 2.9 Six Month Leave 2.10 The Inheritance 2.11 The Jet Set 2.12 The Mountain King 2.13 Meditations in an Emergency 10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
Sept. 14, 2008, 1:51 a.m. CST
Will Don Draper become Un-Don?
Sept. 14, 2008, 3:11 a.m. CST
Must be pure for viewing.
Sept. 14, 2008, 5:57 a.m. CST
BOOSH I LOVE THIS SHOW
Sept. 14, 2008, 7:40 a.m. CST
A truly great season. Last week's episode, especially the last ten minutes, was riveting. This show profits from great writing. Jon Hamm is great. The women, however, I think make this show as great as it is.
Sept. 14, 2008, 10:38 a.m. CST
Hoping to see something about his death on here today. Us nerds have lost a gentle giant of our number.
Sept. 14, 2008, 11:47 a.m. CST
Odds that... <br><br> * Harry will go on to be a major power player 2:1 <br><br> I think the writers are establishing Harry's rise to power. It's not like electronic media advertising is going to get less important in the future. Right now, he's humble guy we can all sympathize with, but in the future...? <br><br> * Ken will be the one to grow the "60s establishment guy taking a dip into the funky pool" sideburns 4:1 <br><br> As someone correctly pointed out in a past talkback, someone is inevitably going to get the sideburns. Sideburns were the businessman's long hair. Paul already has his beard. Ken has an artistic streak. I vote Ken. <br><br> * The producers will clear the rights to use Beatles music on the show 50:1 <br><br> No other musical group marked the decade and the generation like The Beatles. And none is more expensive, leading to... <br><br> * The producers will clear the rights to use The Byrds music on the show 5:1 <br><br> The Byrds are the go-to group for the affordable soundtrack of the 60s. <br><br> * Betty will have an affair with the horsey guy 20:1 <br><br> As Betty learns more about Don's trysts, things become more about that struggle than her sexual tension. Had the bomb not been dropped in the last episode, this odds of this happening would have been much higher. If Don and Betty don't talk about things during this episode, I think there may be some retaliatory screwing around on Betty's part sooner than later, but right now I'm thinking no. <br><br> * Betty will get fat and Don will dump her for a trophy wife 6:1 <br><br> This is how this story plays out in real life. I think this is too irresistable of a social comment for the writers to let go of. Unless things take a turn for the happy unexpectedly, this will eventually come to pass on the show. * Sal's marriage will result in shattered lives <br><br> * Bertram Cooper will die before the end of the show, and there will be a struggle to fill the power vacuum 2:1 <br><br> And I think Harry will, again, be a major player. <br><br> * Joan will never marry, and wind up a grim caricature of herself <br><br> I mean, she's already a caricature, and with the arrival of Don's secretary, I see an eventual, tragic decline. <br><br> * Pete and Don will forge some sort of alliance, which will benefit Pete once Don gets "Head of Household" <br><br> Whoops, wrong show -- Or is it?? At the end of last season, Cooper mentioned to Don how Pete could become a powerful ally. I think that was a signpost of where things will eventually head. * No one will be happy 1:1 <br><br> I mean, come on. <br><br> And that's all I got for this week.
Sept. 14, 2008, noon CST
* Sal's marriage will result in shattered lives 1.5:1 <br><br> Considering that this is the first time this kind of story has been explored with this kind of focus in a major television show, there's only one direction I see things going here: by the numbers. Closeted, then gay affairs, then revelations, then ruin, then redemption. The more radical choice would be for him to just stay in the closet or for him to have an early coming out, but for the sake of drama and the position of the show, I don't think that's where they're going.
Sept. 14, 2008, 12:17 p.m. CST
I'm very curious where they'll take Sal. I gather this show will eventually go all the way to 1969, but that still wasn't exactly a great time for any guy to come out, particularly not in the business community. Three options: 1. Sal stays in, 2. Sal comes out, 3. Sal gets busted while on the down-low. My bet is number 3.
Sept. 14, 2008, 1:22 p.m. CST
Since Sal is the lone, closeted character on the show, with aspirations to be flamboyent and the the show will run through 1969, maybe Sal will get caught up in the Stonewall Tavern riots of 1969 and that's how he gets outed.
Sept. 14, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST
I'm intigued by what's going on with Sal on MAD MEN, but for some reason I found Vito's secret homosexuality on the Sopranos down-right funny!
Sept. 14, 2008, 4:05 p.m. CST
Even when Pete tries to take Don down it tends to be motivated in no small part by what Pete sees as Don's mistreatment. Pete obviously sees Don as some sort of father figure and craves his approval.
Sept. 14, 2008, 9:59 p.m. CST
Powerful acting... great ep.
Sept. 14, 2008, 9:59 p.m. CST
For Peggy and Betsy and maybe even Joan. Fucking all-around most solid episode of the season so far.
Sept. 14, 2008, 10:17 p.m. CST
I'm betting Don's going to be either elected to some political office, or a hippie...Betty will be a bitter alcoholic divorcee...Roger will have died cheating on his wife...Joan will have put on 100 pounds...Duck will have jumped from the roof of Sterling Cooper...Peggy will have Don's job...and Pete will have killed 30 people from a clock tower.
Sept. 14, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST
Just having Don berated by someone he thinks so little of. And why is Pete the only character that just disappears from entire episodes?
Sept. 14, 2008, 10:27 p.m. CST
Don't new secretary out-Joan Joan. She's such a pleasure to watch, and it's nice to kind of see that area get shuffled up a bit. I'm enjoying her a lot, and frankly, Joan deserves someone knocking her down a peg.
Sept. 14, 2008, 11:20 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Wow, Betty just asserted herself like nobody's business. Having Don outright lie to her face was painful to watch, too. It will be interesting to see how this development in their relationship will play out.<P>Kind of rough watching Joan start to feel a newfound sense of direction and importance only to have it quickly taken away. I think she's beginning to realize what it is that Peggy has done. But after getting out-played by Don's secretary last week, she's definitely having a rough time these days.
Sept. 15, 2008, 8:49 a.m. CST
But now I'm stuck on it! It would be nice if one of these people had some happiness in their lives, but I suppose that's an argument with any drama. I don't really see how Don and Betty can recover from this, but I guess marriages have survived worse.<p>It's interesting how so much of this issues with the characters is all based on the idea that, at the time, they have almost no alternatives. Sal really can't just come out and be gay at this time. His poor wife just seems clueless, but you gotta feel bad for her. Joan's "job" is just quickly yanked away from her not cuz Harry's a jerk. It's just because in Harry's mind, she's just one of the "office girls", and he doesn't even consider she could be an executive at all. I agree the guy here who said Joan may be starting to understand Peggy, and somewhat resents her for getting a little bit into the man's world. It's funny to see her future husband's attitude, that some men definitely would've had back then. She "deserves" to not have to work and be able to watch soaps all day.<p>For my final babbling, I'd just like to say I'm always a fan of purposely dated shows. But only shows that do it well, and don't fall back on making a parody of the cliched pop culture of the day. Basically, "That 70s Show" vs. "That 80s Show".
Sept. 15, 2008, 8:54 a.m. CST
Do people think Roger is purposely undermining Joan from behind the scenes for some reason? His handling of the new girl (only because he wants to be handling the new girl) and his complete ignoring of Harry mentioning Joan was a big help. By the way, I personally don't know how these guys have gotten used to Joan. I never would have. Of course, if you know you can look but there's no way you'll get to touch, I suppose you'd pay more attention to the new girls. I mean, the new women. Damn sexist show!
Sept. 15, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST
just to fuck over Joan. I think Joan is one of the people on the show who's time has past, she just doesn't know it yet. Joan is going to be going to Peggy for advice soon, which is a pretty big jump if you look back at the first episode.
Sept. 15, 2008, 10:35 a.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
Interesting idea about Don's secretary rendering Joan obsolete. Certainly, the body-type difference is also the difference between eras. I really liked how last week, Sal was still very tender with is wife, instead of being mean and/or resentful. Good cliche avoidance there. And yeah Roger is definitely fucking with Joan, cause she got hitched. He's jealous and controlling. One wishes Don would just fess up. It's almost as bad as the cheating that he can't come clean about it.
Sept. 15, 2008, 10:35 a.m. CST
After the first season, which actually had something happen in almost every ep, I was wondering if they'd ever get past the setup and actually start moving the story forward again. I think we're in for a wild ride from here on out.
Sept. 15, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST
The closing montage on this ep was magnificent, but the very best shot was of Joan rubbing the deep groove of her bra strap. Says everything about how much she pays for how little she gets, no?
Sept. 15, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST
..of the play off between how men see & treat her versus how she treats the other women. Knowing her role as the office sex symbol is dying, she's now going to use her conniving skills to blackmail her way to the top, heading straight on to a power clash with Peggy over the dead bodies of anyone who gets in her way. Season 3 will reveal her to be as big a ballbuster as Roger. F'ing great show.
Sept. 15, 2008, 10:48 a.m. CST
Last week, Joan was a total total bitch. This week, you feel for her. (But man, that is one HUGE ass)
Sept. 15, 2008, 11:41 a.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
This is not a plot-driven show, so waiting for stuff to happen, I think you'll be waiting a lot. Season 1, even with the gimmick of Draper's past, wasn't any more story-oriented, as far I'm concerned. I'd be shocked if there's a "wild ride" of any sort on Mad Men. And that's fine with me - I think it's amazing as is.
Sept. 15, 2008, 11:52 a.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Just out of curiosity, are you aware of the CoC? Do you know who Burt Gummer is? Have you heard the phrase, "pencil jihad"?
Sept. 15, 2008, 12:01 p.m. CST
Maybe not plot-driven, but last season things did happen and people's lives moved along. What we've had this season is eight rounds of establishing with hardly any forward movement in any story line. 2.8 was the first ep in which things started to change, and I think the changes are going to come much faster in the last five eps. (Besides, we really don't need any more "You're not the REAL Don Draper!" flashbacks disconnected from everything else.)
Sept. 15, 2008, 1:54 p.m. CST
Is Draper's wife will get banged by that creepy horse guy.
Sept. 15, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST
Nah, I think we're going to get a big picture of what really happened to Peggy in 2.9. I'll bet heavily that things don't work out quite the way they've been portrayed - something happened beyond her just having a baby unexpectedly.
Sept. 15, 2008, 2:25 p.m. CST
As far as I'm concerned, I wish the show moved slower and were an hour longer. Seriously, if you're watching Mad Men expecting Lost-like revelations, go see another show. This is about character and how we live our lives. It's more Six Feet Under than Sopranos and it's brilliant. Draper is one of the most amazing characters on TV. His cold blooded ability to lie to the people he loves is such an incredibly honest characterization...and the way they are fucking with Joan...I can't wait to see how she wraps up. You can see her starting to unravel and lose control. It's both subtle and strikingly powerful.
Sept. 15, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST
He knows that under no sane circumstance will a man confess to having an affair. Not even of your dick is still in your mistress and the bedroom door's open.
Sept. 15, 2008, 2:59 p.m. CST
I wouldn't at all disagree that it's a character based show and that major plot action is going to be sparse. But the first season had a reasonable mix of character portrait and story movement. This season went eight and a half episodes with as close to no story movement as possible. No matter how intriguing the players - and I agree that MM has two or three of the most insanely well drawn characters of all time - there has to be a current moving them along as well. The audience won't hang for unending subtlety without a framework on which to hang it. Harold Pinter didn't write this. :D
Sept. 15, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST
Certainly Weiner's attempt to flesh out the characters, as well as their home lives, has diverted some attention from any huge forward momentum in terms of plot, but on the other hand, the little details about Duck's life, Joan, and esepcially Peggy still have me sort of perched on my seat waiting for an emotional or dramatic leak to turn into a gusher. Definitely we saw one this week with Betty's attack on Don. Joan gets snubbed and marginalized. And poor Peggy being put to task by Father Gill. The women had it rough this episode. I loved Betty's reaction to the whole beer experiment. And I agree with the earlier post to - Joan massaging her skin from the bra strap speaks volumes about where these women are and the options that they see before them.
Sept. 15, 2008, 4:48 p.m. CST
That is all.
Sept. 15, 2008, 4:51 p.m. CST
It has to hold up those rock solid bowling balls all day long.
Sept. 15, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST
by Creamery Butter
If that's too much for the bra strap, I'll take one for the team and volunteer to do it. Thank you, I'll be here all week!
Sept. 15, 2008, 5:09 p.m. CST
by Creamery Butter
... because it'd be on vs the Emmy broadcast. Will Jon Hamm lose to James Spader? Tune in to find out!
Sept. 15, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
If killing the messenger were my style, you'd be in big trouble, mister.
Sept. 15, 2008, 5:33 p.m. CST
I have loved Betty since the first episode, and this episode just showcased how fantastic she is. I fully expected Don to just coast through affairs and deal with it internally, but to have him actually be called on it, and have to deal with that is immensely satisfying. You know hw fucking hates himself for doing it, but when he can propose things like just picking up and leaving with Menken, you see him thinking if he really does love Betty. My only complaint here: yes, we technically got some Pete scenes, but they were superfluous. I fully agree that Pete wasn't at all needed for this story, but he's such a fucking interesting character, I wish they'd find more ways to take advantage of him.
Sept. 15, 2008, 5:38 p.m. CST
Mad Men be the first drama on TV to be two hours each week.
Sept. 15, 2008, 7:30 p.m. CST
People are complaining that the overall story this season is progressing slowly, which is true, but I think this season is about how almost every character is mentally breaking down. This has been Betty's season. Not very much of the "story" story has moved but almost every character is in a completely different headspace then when the season began.
Sept. 15, 2008, 7:32 p.m. CST
The progression of this season of Mad Men has been very much internalized within the characters.
Sept. 15, 2008, 8:18 p.m. CST
She's pretty and, clearly, Don is fuckiner her over. However, she's mean to her kids and we've seen glimpses of her past that demonstrate she's really just a mean, shallow, women. In a way, her relationship with Don is similar to the Carmela-Tony marriage on the Sopranos. She appears sympathetic because of who she is married to. However, she made a concious decision to marry that person for selfish and shallow reasons. And, just like Carmela, the real victims are turning out to be her kids.
Sept. 15, 2008, 8:50 p.m. CST
he is on the verge of becoming Duck. His family is rejecting him, and as he correctly stated, much of his talent at work comes from the life he lives with them. They may very well be the only difference between being a Don and being a Duck.
Sept. 15, 2008, 10:12 p.m. CST
Anyone else notice the look of anxiety on Don's face when his friend asked when Don was going to join the country club? <b> Don knows that he will never pass the background check. <b> Don may have hit his own personal glass ceiling. Sterling and Cooper are trying to move Don into a higher social circle but, Don is not going to be able to stand up to the increased scrutiny. <b><b> On a side note can we have a Sarah Conner Talk back? <b> The logic problems on that show are growing by geometric proportions. The time synchronization between the A and B plot make no sense. And Sarah and Cameron being able to get temp jobs as janitors at a high security area like a nuclear power plant in under an hour is a classic example of the "Idiot Plot"(i.e. the plot only works if everyone is an idiot.) <b> I'm all for big dumb fun but, I've seen episodes of "Scooby Doo" where the episode's internal logic held together better. As ludicrous as the premise of any SciFi/Fantasy show is, the show has to respect its own internal logic and plain common sense.
Sept. 16, 2008, 1:10 a.m. CST
You can't exactly blame Betty though, whereas I think you could blame Carmela. You look at the comments Betty has made about her mother, and obviously the type of woman/mother that Betty has become is an amalgamation of what her difficult mother pushed onto her and what the media is pushing a wife to be. Betty is torn between those voices telling her to be something, and obviously it's gotten to her, as you see her treating her children the exact same way her mother treated her. Also, InactionMan, wonderful point about the country club, I completely agree. And the Duck/Don comparisons here hold a lot of water.
Sept. 16, 2008, 2:08 a.m. CST
id love to eat out her asshole
Sept. 16, 2008, 9:10 a.m. CST
There is a reason that Weiner set this in the early '60s. The series is like a scrapbook of a very specific time. The mores and attitudes in the workplace and women's place in it, the dissolution of the "nuclear" family (it's not for nothing that Don has the "ideal" marriage, with beautiful blonde wife, and one child of each gender), the artiface of success, etc.<p>If Billy Wilder were alive today, I wonder what he would've thought of this series.<p>BTW, the Whedon-verse continues. Anyone notice Marti Noxon in the credits as consulting producer...
Sept. 16, 2008, 9:33 a.m. CST
who runs the horse farms. Did anyone notice that character is played by Denise Crosby?
Sept. 16, 2008, 10:32 a.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
That doesn't mean it's necessary. Your taste is for more plot. The show's writers, and it seems like most of the fans of the show, are happy with it as it is. Believe it or not, bang-bang storytelling isn't everything to everybody.<p>
Sept. 16, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST
Oh, fer gossakes, not another clichéd lesbian tryst. It seems like every hot show of the last five years has to squeeze in a hot lesbian tangle - enough, enough. I find Betty to be by far the most annoying and two-dimensional character on the show, even behind the whole rat-pack of the office boys. She's a whiny Barbie princess unhappy with her life, and has absolutely nothing to bring to a more developed character in the same mold. So she had her big blowup after a season and a half. <fx Ben Stiller> Ooooh. I'm impressed. </fx>
Sept. 16, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST
And I hate the stone-age limitations of this posting system, too. The above post had several elements just disappear.
Sept. 16, 2008, 1:33 p.m. CST
I think I've established that I'm not looking for "bang bang" story pace or anything like it. However, I find it frustrating that we spend an hour on the map of a character's mind and then end without anything else AT ALL having occurred. There's simply no reason why the overall story can't be moved along by these character studies. Too much dissociation from plot advancement and a show falls prey to Star Trek Syndrome - something like thirty season years of the various ST shows, and with almost no exceptions each series could be run in any order. Every ep begins and ends at zero - a square tile that can be fitted before or after every other square tile. I admit that my preference is for the shows that blocked out a strong set of story arcs and then used them as a vehicle for all the other elements - Babylon 5 was pretty much the first, and then Sopranos, Carnivale, Deadwood. I can hang with a character-based show but I am dismayed that the writers have suppressed everything else SO much that the first eight episodes of this season could have been run in any order at all without more than very minor continuity errors. The line between artfully character-centered and something akin to lazy arrogance gets pretty fine.
Sept. 16, 2008, 5:07 p.m. CST
Betty's mother might be the reason, but it isn't an excuse. That's the whole point of the story why Don refuses to beat/spank the kids, no matter how often Betty wanted him to do so. Don may be a scumbag on many levels but he won't let himself become a prick to his kids just because his dad and mom treated him like shit growing up. He understands the need to rise above his parents, even if sometimes fails, whereas Betty can't or won't. That's the beauty of this show, and why the comparison to Tony and Carmela is so apt. Neither is completely a villain but neither is completely blameless either. They are both flawed and those flaws are exactly why they ended up together and exactly what threatens to destroy both them and their kids.
Sept. 17, 2008, 11:21 a.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
I think Betty is a great character ... the two dimensional unhappy housewife is only part of it. If anything, her story is of a woman trying to assert a third dimension in a life that wants her to stay a cardboard cutout. Most of the characters are changing or on the precipice of change, as is the country itself.
Sept. 22, 2008, 3:09 a.m. CST
I used to think Betty was sorta cardboard too, but starting with the episode "Shoot" last season I began to see there was a lot more to her than met the eye.