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Are You Registered To Vote In This Year's U.S. Presidential Election?
Hey folks, Harry here...
This is a very very important time. You can still register to vote in the upcoming Fall election. Now - to do that - you need to be a citizen of the United States and be over the age of 18. Personally I wish all of you could vote, period, I think the results would always be better.
However, it's only those over the age of 18 in the United States. As I'm a supporter of Barack Obama - I'm on the campaign's email list and figured I'd provide a link where each of you who are qualified to vote in the upcoming Presidential Election this November... well that you could easily register right now, right here. Vote how you feel, read about both candidates - I'd recommend actually going to their campaign websites and reading their actual platforms, as opposed to just reading hardline op-ed pieces from the right or the left. Actually see which candidate you agree with, not because you consider yourself liberal or conservative... Democrat or Republican, but because you have the capacity to understand the issues, the ability to see which candidate you can align with - regardless of partisan politics. Vote on the issues and the alleged answers that the candidates are putting forth.
But having an opinion means nothing if you're not registered to make it count. So here ya go: CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!
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but I'm in the uk. It saddens me to think of another 4 years with a Republican in the Whitehouse but I've got a bad feeling that's the way it's gonna go. Bad news for America and bad news for the world...
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wouldn't miss it for the world. It's a freedom that we should not take for granted.
BTW, Harry, I appreciate your non-partisan approach to this. Personally, I'm a conservative and nothing irks me more than having people call me a fool because of it. Quite frankly, vote how you like and I'll vote how I like but I see no reason for us to make fun of each other over it. -
I'm writing him in, along with a haggis as his running mate.
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No, seriously. If who we elect president makes that much of a difference to the rest of the world, then immigrate over here and do your part.
Damned right I'm gonna vote. I'll be voting McCain/Palin, of course, since I am politically conservative, but a major part of me will be doing it to make the overdramatic Eurodicks squirm. God damn, the prospect gives me a hard on. -
So what's with people saying this talkback is disabled? And I was first, wow!
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Glad to know you're supporting Obama.
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I saw Barack in NH today with my wife and kids. Here's a guy fighting slander with the truth. You can go through life with blinders firmly in place or you can open your eyes to the lies and manipulation of the last 8 years.
Facts are facts:
We are almost all worse off now than we were 8 years ago and the party who's held power must pay the price.
Vote those responsible for this mess out.
Vote Democrat.
VOTE Barack. -
As in ignorant children under the age of 18 and citizens of other countries? That’s downright frightening Harry. This government is meant to be accountable to IT’S people not to some international popularity contest or bureaucracy (That’s the very foundation of a democracy and republic that liberals actually thwart regularly through the unelected courts blatantly breaking their constitutional authority).
As for children – they have had no time as an adult under their belt to allow time to develop a rounded and informed decisions should CERTAINLY NOT be able to vote. An adult can be ignorant (granted), but children by definition almost ALWAYS ARE ignorant for the reasons I stated.
I do agree that international popularity and ignorant children voting would help democrats though (Its true whether commented with rancor or not….but there’ a reason for it- the old saying strikes me here- if you aren’t a liberal when your 20 you have no heart, if you not conservative by the time you’re 30, you have no brain)
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...who's starring in this one then?...
Oh,not film related?...I see.... -
It's pretty freakin' important for those of us here in the states to vote and I appreciate you taking one little post to encourage/remind people to get out there and do it. It doesn't take up very much space from the site. Still plenty of geek news for folks to enjoy. So, thanks...
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http://edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html
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Because eight years of cronyism, war mongering and a general destruction of my rights just haven't been enough for me.
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your sentiments sum up why the republican party manged to fuck up our country in the last 8 yrs - and manage to weaken the dollar like never before and turn nearly the entire world against us - yeah, your right "fuck the rest of the world" - the rest of the world doesnt count for shit, right?
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Tiny alien parasites that are the initial stage of a grand galactic conquest... I am banging out the script as we speak. Expect it straight to the wal-mart budget bin in 2009...
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And I’m voting Obama because blatant ignorance of issues such as history, what makes an economy grow, and the necessity for an even fatter more crony driven government, and ultimately the need for the US to get away from this whole outdated “Democracy/Republic thing” is what this county REALLY needs! Yeah
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I dissed you in another talkback for stifling dissent in this article, I see you changed your mind, so despite our differences I salute you for that.
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I was being sarcastic- EXTREMELY sarcastic. The Democrat party is basically a bunch of special interest groups that is slowly eroding the things that made the US great in the first place. I wish they weren’t but they are– we once had Democrats like JFK who actually had a brain and understood economics and the dangers to a countries culture and existence- but those days are long loooooong gone.
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Voting is a civic virtue, and one that all sides of partisan issues should be able to agree on.
My piece of advice? Put off making up your mind for as long as possible. Once people 'commit' to a candidate, they start acting very strangely, as if they're cheering for a football team. I know which way I lean, but haven't committed yet. -
...but im honestly not seeing the whole Obama thing. The man is charasmatic as hell, immensely likable, and gives a great speech, but what else? Even my Obama supporting friends cant specfically state what tangibles he brings to the table. Like him, they speak in generality, sound bites, and broad terms. "he's for change". He's for change? Well lets roll out the fucking red carpet. Its laughable. I lean to the right obviously and even i thinkg George W is an embarrassment and a douchebag. He cant leave fast enough. Believe me McCain is not Bush. And Biden? LOL. Yeah OK. Way to go for the 'change' there. Obama shot himself in the foot with that one. I think the main reason im not liberal is because I shouldnt have to feel guilty about being a white christian english speaking heterosexual male that happens to believe in freedom of speech even if i disagree and happen to be a responsible gun owner and plan to keep it that way. But really? Dems or Repubs. whats the differnece. Peace all.
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I'm a Brit, but this election scares the fuck outta me. I can't see Obama winning, mainly because of his color. And we all know just how apple pie a black man is to White America, don't we? Now I hope I'm proven wrong, but why do I feel the Republicans will still be sat in the white house this November. The Neo-Cons will still be there and the rest of the world will be just as fucked as you Yanks. Come on, anyone who can vote for Bush twice will go for that old geezer and that satanic bitch. Oh and remember how those feminists used to go on about how much better the world would be with a women in charge, ie peace, love, understanding yada, yada... nice to see Sarah Palin shiting all over that theory by declaring that she's ready to go to war with RUSSIA!!!!! Dunno about you but I about shit my pants when that black eyed whore said that. Yep, Revelations is just around the corner, at least it will be with her finger on the button. Jesus. Like I said the Republicans will be still running the show folks and its gonna be all your fault. God bless America. Time to turn the lights out.
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obama has more going for him right now (knowledge of policy and what works, diplomatic nature, uniter not a divider etc.) than bush did going into his first term - the one thing more than anything else hes got in his favor is that hes not a republican - how much "fuck up" can you tolerate from that party? - seriously? - havent they shown us time and time again that theyre NOT for the little guy/average middle class working american - theyre "corporations first, workers (us) second" - its true, republican policies prove this - but their are more dumb voters than there are smart ones - thats why dirty campaigning works - as we speak there is a McCain endorsed ad running in chicago that paints Obama as a supporter of sex ed for kindergarden age kids (4-6) - an out right lie - theres one running here where they actually blame Obama for the hight price of gas (because he oposed to off shore drilling and drilling in anwar) - Obama's to blame for the price of gas? - sad thing is, a lot of voters believe this shit
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Always rise beautifully. McCain's chips never cook all the way through no matter how long you leave them in the oven.
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Well he did say he was gonna push back the oceans and heal the earth who would'nt want to see that. He also said he was going to lead the world in nuclear reduction by dismantling our nuclear weapons program and he said "I will slow our development of future combat systems" The Army’s Future Combat Systems (FCS) is the first full-spectrum modernization effort in nearly 40 years and he wants to slow it? mccain is by no means perfect but Obama is downright scary, he seems to think he can give a few cute speeches and the whole world will lay down their guns and join hands. The fact is leaders like Vladimir Putin & Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran will have him for breakfast. They will stall him and jerk him around until Iran has nukes. he also wants new taxes on stocks, great idea as fragile as the stock market is lets discourage people from buying them. This guy has done nothing but run for office his whole career. he has a ton of ambition I will give him that but he is not ready to be president.
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Hey alucardvsdracula why don't you pick up a book and learn some of your OWN history before ignorantly missing Palin’s point on Russia-she didn’t say we had to go to war, but she did want to nave NATO defend them- and she’s RIGHT. I am ever stunned by how many Brits seem completely ignorant of some of their most critical history in the 10 year Churchill/Chamberlain debate. What the hell do they teach you kids in school over there?
By the way Palin did come off as green in that interview though no more so than the Dem PRESIDENTIAL Nominee Obama who has basically said the same stuff in relation to Pakistan and changed his mind 3 times on what he thinks about Russia/Georgia (ie. he has no CLUE).
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Sep 13, 2008 2:24:29 PM CDT
You've been the laughunbg stock of the civilised world for 8 yea
by splinter
Once again, the vast legions of fuckwit right-wing racist homophobic gun-nut fundamentalist creationist troglodytes will come out in their millions to vote for more of the fucking same. It is truly hilarious to the intelligent among our species - you suffer a retarded monkey for 8 years, and a man like Obama comes along offering a genuine new order, hope, change, intelligence and empathy - and chances are you'll put a geriatric Bush-clone and a stupefyingly unqualified fundamentalist book-banning imbecile into power. Go America.
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"Laughing stock". Apologies for the typos.
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Sep 13, 2008 2:32:43 PM CDT
Do you vote for puppet on the left, or puppet on the right???
by the dum guy
I hope the worst choice gets picked (God knows who that is), just so I can say I didn't vote for him.Although, to throw my two cents in, I got a feelin' that McCain is going to win by a hairs margin.
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you described the very base that the inclusion of Palin has rallied and stirred - americans dont get it - they like getting screwed over then blaming the wrong guy/group/party for the screwing - McCain WAS a maverick to his party - not anymore - he is the very eptiome of what he claims he will clean up - his campaign managers are some of the biggest lobbiests in wash. - the one thing he helped author (with Feingold) labeled him a traitor to his party - campaign finance reform - other than that, he is right in line with all the neo cons - ear marks? - they wont go away - watchdogging those is not an agent for real change - watch, if he wins see how much more fucked up things get - we might very well start trading blows with russia over georgias independance - diplomacy? - thats for pussies - republicans shoot first and deal later
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You are not intelligent- you actually come off like a college kid who thinks he knows something after taking a few left wing classes. Come back when you have learned what US Conservatism actually means cause you clearly have no clue. (and by the way Bush is not conservative- he’s hated by conservatives because he’s far too much like Obama- and other leftists -so is Mc-Lame, but where he differs from Obama he is correct the Neo part of Neo-Con is actually liberal heck Bush even ran Iraq similarly to Johnson “D” Ran Nam).
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Do Republicans want to continue fighting two wars, and start two more, but not want to pay taxes to pay for them or volunteer to fight for them themselves? I'm confused? Does that make no sense at all?
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i agree - and i bet she does - Sarah barracuda - sounds like an 80s porn star
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yes yes and yes - well, they can activate the draft if need be
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Palin is just smoking. Still voting for Obama. And no I'm not a democrat.
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his race and skin color has nothing to do with it - i felt the same way about Kerry - the only women or non whites republicans respect are those that are hard core right wing neo cons - like Palin and Thomas - what do you do for a living? - im self employed, i have a skill i depend on - and i dont like paying more taxes (relatively speaking) than some ceo that makes 50 times more than me and sends his manufacturing overseas
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More government than your boy W? Really? Well I'm still voting McSame for his absolute disregard to the truth on earmarks (he's gone after over 1billion in earmarks over the past six years), his ability to disagree with W over 5% of the time, his stance against warrning kinder age kids of people who may want to "touch" them, his ability to ignore Palin's original support of the so called bridge to nowhere, his acceptance of the Bush tax cuts he once strongly opposed and voted against, his realization that water boarding actually is okay, the fact that he too dislikes lipstick on a pig, the fact that he still assosiates with Lyndsay Graham, his point while running against Romney that Gubenatorial and Mayoral experience were not sufficient for the Presidency, and his lack of funding for all of these new "new-clear" power facilities he proposes. But you go ahead and vote for Obama you crazy liberal.
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THATS RIGHT OBAMA BIDEN
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900LBShitwit, there is literally zero point in engaging with you. W has been in power for 8 years because incredibly stupid people with absolutely no concept of what is good and right and fair put him there. People who support torture, the suspension of habeus corpus, preemptive war built on utter lies, rendition, the black pit of Guantanemo - people who detest homosexuals, people who detest Muslims, immigrants, blacks....etc etc. The worst of humanity - the very worst - inhabits the Right wing. To those illiterate shitwits who are carping on with 'What has Obama got to offer??' READ HIS FUCKING WEBSITE YOU LAUGHABLE BUFFOONS. Immerse yourself in his policies. They are incredibly well-thought out, cogent and achieveable. Then go and read the corporation-whore typical Republican arseholery of McCain's ideas. People like you have had your 8 years, 900LBImbecile. The time has come for the bright,the discerning, the morally and emotionally literate to take the power back. The entirety of fucking Europe is crying laughing at Palin - she is literally like a bad joke. And millions of you fuckwits will actually vote for her. Will actually be inspired by this duplicitous sack of lying, Pentecostal creationist shit. Again, Go America. Don't bother replying, 900LBMuppetboy. Your words are meaningless.
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Obviously the average talkbacker gets their news from commercial broadcast sources, which is only capable of sound bites and editorials. Due to the conflict of selling ad space, these news sources qualify as "infotainment" at best. Since our nations political process has been reduced by the media to mere strands of "talking points", I think it's fair for an entertainment focused site such as this to treat the matter as the semi-relevant brain candy it is. Plus, a regular political column would have the additional benefit of routing the party hardliners away from the industry coverage, to a place were they can mistreat each other ad nauseam without offending the rest of us.
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on a slow week for actual movie news: try these talkback threads. "Who's smarter, a conservative or a liberal?" "What do you think about Christians?" "What's the coolest movie ever?" "Thoughts on Shia?" Hope this helps the hit-count, fellas.
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I'll go into what Obama has OFFERED to get my vote in a second. But first I want to just briefly address this whole "What had Obama done for you" argument. Well, Obama did vote against CAFTA and vote for the New GI Bill, but this is all besides the point. The point is: what had Bush44, Clinton, and Reagan done for you personally before they were President. Unless you lived in Texas, Arkansas, or California the answer is nothing. Actually by that logic, Obama and McCain have both done more for the country has a whole than Reagan, Clinton, and Bush had done prior to their becoming President.
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once he is elected.....and no longer needs the far right to get elected...
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Because he'll still have to fulfill his campaign promises or otherwise he'll be unable to run for reelection, and he'll hurt the name of his party even more.
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A) Bush is not my “boy” because he HAS spent too much – he is FAR too similar to a Democrat in many ways for me to like him
B) McCain is right to change his mind on the tax cuts- that’s what makes an economy grow and helps middle class people with what really changes their lives- JOBS and opportunities.
C) Some of your talking points are right some are wrong, but they are not worthy of addressing because both political parties play politics (such as Obama’s outright lie that republicans are trying to scare people because he doest look like the guy on the $1 bill or might be a Muslim). What is important is not all this sound and fury signifying nothing, but rather who understands the economy, international history and forign policy, and who supports a republic via the constitution more- and where it matters there is NO CPOMPARISON. Obama is downright awful, McCain is merely poor.
D) Yes REALLY Obama will have more government than Bush – his plan AS HE STATES IT dramatically increases the size of government – if you don’t know that you should NOT vote- Seriously because you are clueless on the basics
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or that he cares about the party? or a least the current shape of the party? McCain has had a history of saying that the Republican party needs to change, to move back toward the center..... of the choice we've got he'll get my vote...although I'd have loved to get Bill back in office.....
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but it needs to be the right kind of big government....
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Goriall, I'm going to explain something to you really gently. Your classic and embarassing right-wing tactic of telling people "they don't know what they're talking about" is utterly transparent, vaccuous and mind-numbingly predictable. At least TRY not to be a fucking walking cliché, eh?
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but it needs to be the right kind of big government....
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The only reason Liberals might be scared is there is a very real possibility that the party responsible for violating the Constitution, starting a bogus war, permitting torture, curbing civil liberties, and all-around Bible thumping may once again take hold of the Presidency through fear, ignorance, and shamelessness.klinteastwood - sounds like you need to grow the fuck up. No Liberal has ever declared Obama a "Christ figure". But the Rove-style Republican smear machine sure has. Gee, I wonder why...And if you want to talk about shallow, at least Obama isn't out hawking "I'd rather be Waterboarding" t-shirts like so-called true conservatives. (Get it? Shallow... Waterboarding... your conservative party...)
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Sep 13, 2008 3:15:09 PM CDT
Splinter You are right there is no point in debating me because
by 900lbgorilla
- First off W is not my “boy” as I have stated many times. But even there you are clueless. Because waterboarding is not torture (You want torture spend a day in a Chinese re-education camp or 30 minutes with a terrorist). I’d let someone waterboard me for a week before I’d spent 4 minutes with someone who would really torture me. (We actually train our own military with scenarios as harsh and harsher).
- Second, Pre-emptive war was already proven to be a course worth taking in extreme instances- the failure to do it in WWII led to about 60 million more deaths than were necessary- maybe you should brush up on your history before sounding so silly. (Though Bushg ran Iraq just like Johnosn “D” ran Nam which WAS stupid.
- Also where is your outrage against Clinton who bombed Iraq himself and demanded action from Bush when he handed over the reigns …where is your outrage at Clintons man Sandy Berger who illegally removed and destroyed top secret documents pertaining to Clintons handling of terrorism leading up to 9/11 which were being sought by the 9/11 commission? Your outrage is ignorant and rather silly.
-Also lets hear your suspension of habeus corpus argument. This should be downright fun.
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And McCain hangs out with John Hagee, a virulent catholic-hater. So maybe you can't judge people solely by the people they know.
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we just need the right one in office...and sadly, the one nominated isnt...maybe next time
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He himself says things that bring the christ comparison here is a speech where he says he will "push back the oceans and heal the earth"
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=obama+heal+earth&search_type=&aq=f -
I'll come over to your house and waterboard you. Then I'll pull your toenails out with a pair of pliers. After that you can tell me if the experiences were comparably terrifying.
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Quote: "Because waterboarding is not torture..."Oh really? John McCain seemed to think so during one of the Republican debates when he had a rather heated exchange with Mitt Romney over that precise issue: http://tinyurl.com/5etmk7
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You mean the video titled, "This is the moment WE begin to heal the Earth"?!Keyword: WEHe does not claim to be Christ, nor do his supporters. The Republicans put forth that accusation because it scores cheap political points.
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There was nothing extreme about the circumstance that led to the US invading and decimating Iraq. Nothing. At all. In any way shape or form. All the 'extreme' reasons fed to an amoeba-brained American public turned out to be totally and utterly false. Although wait...there's the oil. And the fact that the people are brown, so who cares. As regards Habeus Corpus - what do you mean, my Habeus Corpus argument? Do you know what Habeus Corpus is? Do you understand, deep down in the part of humanity that may be left, that getting rid of habeus corpus subjectively, at the 'discretion' of the US Government is among the most dangerous and repellent things that has occured in the last century? Do you realise that there are men languishing in Guantanemo without being fucking CHARGED for the last 7 years and this is tacitly approved of by your government? Have you any idea how fucking wrong that is? If you don't - and I honestly suspect you're shaking your head, scratching your thick ape-like brow in confusion as you read this - you are, simply put, scum.
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A balanced budget. Fair Trade agreements that open up foreign markets to American products. Lower taxes for 90% of Americans. $4000+ dollars to college students willing to donate their time in community service. HealthCare for all Americans. Green Economy. New Energy Sources. Winning the Wars we're in. Not starting new ones.
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Clinton was a massively flawed President - I am no blind defender of the man.
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Of course he has not said he was Christ, who is claiming that? the point is he said he was gonna push back the oceans and heal the earth which sounds very christ like. You are wrong that his supporters don't refer to him as christ like, many of them do. For the record i don't hate the guy, i just think his foreign policy will be way to soft and cost us dearly. Maybe if he spends another 10 years in the senate I will take another look at him and see if his policies have imprpved. He seems like a well meaning guy and maybe if he actually concentrates on being a senator for a while he could make a good president in 10 years. he will have to change quite a bit to get my vote though, hes way to liberal now.
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Sep 13, 2008 3:40:25 PM CDT
George BUsh is the stupidist and and the same time the greatest
by tacoloft
...at least that is the extreme left wing talking points as a lame reason to vote Obama. So which is it? Bush is an Idiot or the greatest mastermind stealing oil ect..? Forget about the leaders or congress of the past that have passed stupid ass laws and lets blame it all on one man. How convenient! That's using your mind!
I don't think that Obama or McCain are going to destroy the world. I don't think that Obama or McCain are Christ or the anti-Christ. I think that extreme nut jobs (911 was orchestrated by the U.S, Aliens are involved, Sarah Palin is the anti-Christ, ect...) are the ones eliciting the division in America. Why even lend them an ear when we are all Americans damnit! I know who I am voting for, and at the end of the day I will be supporting whoever wins. They will be my president and as an American supporting my fellow Americans we have to get over these stupid untruths that people will undoubtedly come up with. -
Well said, once there is a winner anyone not hoping they do a great job and giving them their full support is a complete moron. unfortunately there is plenty of partisans that will hope they fail miserably so they can get their guy in next time and that is simply idiotic, this is'nt a sporting event, the fate of the world is at stake.
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Well, I can honestly say that I have never heard one Obama supporter refer to him as "Christ-like". I have only heard this from his detractors (who either fear or don't understand his appeal). Again, the keyword in that speech is "We", as in "We the people".And I completely understand your other concerns. It's a sentiment that's shared by many when weighing experience, policy and so forth.
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In terms of the economy, McCain is no maverick. He's not even a 'maverick'... (The quotes are meant to imply he's trying to portray himself that way). He AGREES openly with Bush's economic policy. I'll suggest that these aren't good policies implemented poorly. Rather, the last two Bush terms are a carbon copy of what McCain views as sound economic policy: deregulate everything, privatize everything, corporate tax cuts to 'boost the economy'. The result: rising unemployment, shrinking middle class, jobs growing and slowing paces, a mortgage crisis, instability on wall street, high gas prices, the list goes on. McCain won't talk about his economic platform because it's made up of the same Bush policies that got us into this mess. McCain is no maverick, and this election won't be about that anyway... It will be about what MOST campaigns are about: Republicans claiming Democrats will tax them into the ground. If we, as a nation fall for that trick, we will have earned ourselves more of the same economic woes we've had to get used to of late.
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My friend, perhaps you could provide me with evidence to this bigger government plan. Just because Obama has plans for new programs does not mean he will not reduce others. I love that you've fallen back on the GOP playbook of fear, stating thelat the opposition to your candidate will raise taxes and create more government. For example, Grampy McSame approved a message that states that Obama wants to raise your taxes, while he forgets to mention that it is only true if you make in excess of $250,000 per year. For everyone else it will go down.
You also seem big on the economy and taxes, which is good but you're drastically off target. Bush and McSame have both supported tax breaks to companies who moved American jobs over seas. And let's not forget that never before in this great nation's history has a commander in chief given out tax cuts during a time of war. John McSame says that he should've stood up and asked Americans to sacrifice for our country, but now he's changed and wants to continue with tax cuts for corporations and wealthy individuals while our deficit balloons out of control.
I'm glad to hear W is not your boy & appologize for the assumption (you see unlike W I can admit to being wrong). I've complained to conservative friends for years that W is no conservative - he's spent more money and created more government than any president in history. He's a spend & spend republican and one that Grampy McSame has agreed with over 90% of the time.
As for republicans not attempting to smear Obama as a covert Muslim, I'm sorry to inform you thatis false. The information wing of the republican party (FOX news) has repeatedly made incorrect references to Obama attending a Madrassa and one of their anchors once famously described the fist bump that the Obamas shared when he clinched the nomination as a "terrorist fist jab" (easily accessable on YouTube). -
..and let America bury itself. If you stupid, inbred fucktards vote in another republican government after the last 8 years of global humiliation - then you will cement your already firm reputation as the dumbest nation on earth. Just don't expect ANYONE else to join in with your fucking oil-driven wars, or to pretend we want anything to do with you, you mindless hillbilly cunts. Being from the UK, I can't vote, but if I could it would be for Obama. Why? Because he's the only one who shows promise, and could actually dig you idiots out of the hole your in. But no, such a simple clear cut choice eludes you lot, doesn't it? Your too busy jerking your cock off over gun magazines and fucking your mother. Or too fucking RACIST to accept a black guy in your precious Whitehouse. Elect McCain, and you all deserve to burn and rot in the foulest pit of hell for being so weak and pathetic. In the UK, if our government fucks up big time, they are out on their ass (and believe me, Gordon Brown WILL be out on his ass)...but that just makes TOO MUCH FUCKING SENSE for you yanks, right? Oh no, you'll vote the same fuckers back in. You fucking fucking cunts. DIE!
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I'm more liberal than moderate, i suppose, but I'd never call Bush a genius for stealing oil... Why wouldn't I make that claim? Maybe because we are spending 10 billion dollars a month occupying a country that just made its first oil sharing agreement with... CHINA. That's right... Our brave sons and daughters are fighting to make Iraq oil fields safe for Chinese oil companies.
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we'll all be hoping he does a great job...of staying alive. 'Cause if he snuffs it and that moose-slaughtering creationist has her finger over the button then we're all doomed.
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You vote Republican because:
The right of the individual to achieve the best that is within him, as long as he respects the rights of others, is the source of our Nation's strength.
The government exists to protect the freedom of opportunity in which each individual's creative ability can flourish.
The government activities should be limited to those things which people cannot do at all, or cannot do so well for themselves.
The most effective government is government closest to the people.
That those who cannot provide for themselves should be assisted by both government and society, but that every effort should be made to help them become self-supporting, productive citizens with pride in the independence.
That equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity belong to all, regardless of race, creed, age, sex or national origin.
That the preservation of our Nation and the security of our citizens depend upon the Constitution, the laws, and the courts, and that respect for them is the responsibility of every individual.
The government is accountable for maintaining sound money and a responsible economy. Individual rights, liberties and properties are continually eroded when citizens are oppressed by excessive taxation, inflation, government waste and over-regulation.
The government is responsible for national defense and that only a strong American can remain a free America.
That it is absolutely essential to maintain a strong national defense posture in order that we may at all times negotiate from a position of strength, not weakness, in our continuing efforts toward world peace and friendship.
That's from the GOP.
Now the irony with Bush is that he's done what Republicans have always accused Liberals of doing - over spending and creating a bloated government, crippling the economy while lining the pockets of his cronies. George Bush is as liberal as they come. Now, I don't want another 4 years of Bush economics and policy, but if you think I'm running into the arms of a senator who has done nothing but run for president since joining the senate you're just as dellusional as those who think the last 8 years have been the best 8 years of the United States. Obama has done nothing but push socialist ideas (tax big oil, socialize medicine) and promised "change" without forwarding any concrete ideas on how he will "change" America for the better.
And for those abroad who think they understand U.S. politics so well and want to arm chair quarterback from across the pond remember one thing. Even if the last 8 years have been rough and in the next four you don't get the presidential candidate you hope for, the United States is still the straw that stirs the drink. Even with the mess in Iraq, the rest of the world still looks to the United States to lead. Do we screw up? Sure we do, we've never said we were perfect (we're just expected to be), but at least we step up to the plate unlike other would be world powers such as China and Russia (see what they do the next time a typhoon hits SE Asia). Personally, I would love to see the United States turn their back on the rest of the world and fix our own problems instead of spending resources we don't have helping others, but then again you should be thanking whoever that Bush is president and not me. -
The president is a puppet of a Corporate Oligarchy that's been running the country for the last 50 years. Its a ONE PARTY system with two slightly different factions. They have the exact same policies only they present them slightly differently to make you think you have a choice. Eat shit out of a bag or a bucket either way your still eating shit. Vote McCaine or Obama and absolutely nothing will 'Change'. There will still be pointless war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the industrial output of the country will still grind to a halt and the middleclass will still be ground down to third world status. The only candidates that were worth a Damn on either side were Denis Kucinich(D) and Ron Paul(R) and we saw how they were politicaly assasinated by the Corporate/Government controlled whore media. Wake up. The USA is being dismantled by this system and you are letting it happen.
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And someone explain to me rationally why we shouldn't vote for McCain because Palin is a heartbeat away from being president, while we should vote for the equally inexperience Obama who is zero heartbeats away from the button.
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I'd like to see Christ return to the world and Sarah will make that happen for us.
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How about because Palin is dumber than a hockey puck, for one.
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Thanks. Those of us who desire change here in the States appreciate your thoughts.Now, go back to your council estate you limey, socialist twat!
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Hey, those who desire change would have the sense to vote Obama. I'll assume that's not you though. Now, shuffle off and go fuck a gun or something.
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Give us a signal you're alive and okay.
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After 8 years of blatant incompetence, deception and shortsighted bullying, I can't believe anyone still gives Republicans any credibility. I don't know if it's laziness or incredible naivete or just irrational fear that explains why almost half the country would think that this cadaver and his arm candy wouldn't just continue their systematic fucking over of the country and everyone who isn't on their side. It is depressing to think that people still buy into that shit and think it will change anything.
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Vote vote vote or stop bitching everyone else...
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Don't assume. You need to re-read my posts.
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I don't know why you're insulting hockey pucks, but why is she dumb? Because you disagree with her or did you see her college transcripts?
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I'd put him solidly in the Middle, perhaps leaning a bit Left. He's good people!!!!!!
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the way you vomit ignorance and throw this country, the greatest stronghold and promoter for liberty on this earth, under the bus is truly inspiring.
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The non Christian Fundamnetalists of the Republican party (and yes we are out there) don't want another 4 years of Bush, but change for change sake doesn't equal better. Dems have control of Congress and this is the most inept Congress I've ever seen (yes that includes the Republican memebers as well).
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My "council estate" jab was nothing more than an attempt to humor your rather incendiary comments. No worries; we're more in agreement than you know.
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So, your pro-Obama?? That's just common sense. I may well be a limey twat, but at least I can put an X in a box correctly when the choice is crushingly obvious.
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Sep 13, 2008 4:14:00 PM CDT
Hey ryman7 - ''the greatest stronghold and promoter for liberty
by 69dude
...Where you been the last 8 years? Your country is a laughing stock.
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Hey, ok I take back any negativity towards you. Peace. See? It's easy to END A WAR! Almost as easy as starting one!
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McCain says we think of him as one, but we don't. We think he is smart and has new ideas. We like him, and we understand it's going to take a hell of a lot of work to dig us out of this mess. We don't see him as the second coming. And if you think we see that you are plain ignorant.
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Amen to that! Good thing, too. I was trying to figure out exactly how one shuffles off to fuck a gun. Yikes!
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The one voice of reason after a hundred posts. You forgot Gravel though, he was also a progressive, independent thinker.
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I've no idea, they don't let us play with guns over here. Ask a Republican...
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...about the political system in America that the worst insult a "left leaning" person can throw at a foreigner is to call him a 'socialist'.
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It probably says more about my ability (or potential lack thereof) to lob a joke on the fly.
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I know he did and as on soo very many issues- he's wrong.
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Obama's been making his case for over a year now. His plan, his beliefs, his outlook and his poise and character are all out there for us to watch, research, read and judge. I'm simply very impressed by him. I'd like to think his appearance on O'Reilly has not only put the smears against him to rest, but that he might have appealed to some on the Right. Certainly he made a good impression on O'Reilly, though not enough to win his vote of course.
Palin, on the other hand, is a complete mystery. She doesn't have a catalogue of interviews or a history of debates upon which to draw a clear picture of who she really is and what her plans are (Although a number of accounts of her tenure as Alaskan governor and Wasilla mayor leads me to believe she's utterly unqualified for the White House). Her interview with Charlie Gibson consisted solely of scripted and dodging answers. And she was so visibly unnerved by even the simplest questions. That's truly frightening to think she could be President in the case of an incapacitated McCain.
I personally find it an abomination that their campaign sought to shelter her from the press, not answerable to anyone. If she's qualified, she ought to make that case to the public. Not through rallies and speeches, but under questioning and through debates. No one knew who she was 2 weeks ago, but now half the nation believes she's qualified to lead the nation.
Apparently the admissions process for getting into a community college is more stringent than getting into the White House. -
Talking about how we're going out and helping our respective campaigns like phone banking or canvassing or getting new voters to register. Or at least helping our communities, You greasy neckbeards decide to be hopeless retards and argue stupid talking points. I'm voting obama myself but at least i'm not sitting on my ass most days being an idiot. I'm actually trying to get some people to vote regardless of choice. IT'S PRETTY FUCKING EASY, GO TO YOUR CANDIDATES LOCAL CAMPAIGN OFFICE!!
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So will McCain. Shit, that old fart got ripped by those women on The View, let alone his political competition.
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...it just amuses me the way the Republicans only have to call an idea (like universal healthcare, for instance) 'socialist' for most American's to dismiss it. Even the most right-wing Tory in Britain wouldn't dream of getting rid of the NHS.
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Yeah, I've heard Republicans bad mouth 'universal healthcare' too, like it was a...bad thing? No-one's saying the NHS is perfect, but y'know, it's certainly not bad.
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Stop being pussies and get out there and volunteer! ever since the RNC all i've been hearing is typical democrat doom and gloom about how Obama won't win and we're doomed to a country run by stupid people that were elected by stupid people. It's this defeatist attitude that let republicans win every single time even though their candidate seemed like a choice no one could possibly elect.
Get your ass out of your home, go to your local campaign office and volunteer... just because McCain is up by 2 point or whatever doesn't mean we have to lose. It's going to be a long, hard fight and there's no way we can lose if we just try. -
if they nominated someone other than a pompous, arrogant, elitist Messiah. Clinton came from a small town, didn't act superior and won easily (twice). The Dems have a strong wind at their back. If they lose, it's nobody's fault but their own.
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Honestly, I COMPLETELY agree that corporation hold WAAAY to much power in this country. But don't confuse you're disgust over politics with the idea that 'everyone else just doesn't get it'. Human beings, Republican and Democrats and Independents and members of the Brand-X Party, are swayed by power and money. It's a fact of life. But the government, politics, and more specifically the choice between one 'evil' politician over another can have SWEEPING effects on the country and the world. To buy into your rant would be to say today's America would be nearly the same had Gore been named President instead of Bush. I'm sorry, but I confidently reject that point of view. So as an adult you get a choice: Do you attempt to make a difference through running for office, donating to a candidate, volunteering for a candidate, or simply voting for a candidate? Or to do stay unengaged on the periphery, loud and full of bluster but ultimately irrelevant. The only other alternative, in my view, would be to over throw the government, but something tells be you have either a lack of time or ambition. I guess what I'm trying to say is, bitch and moan all you want about the evil government. That is the ONE thing that will do you exactly no good. And by the way, if you vote at all you are officially a whore just like the rest of us.
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but please just don't elect these fuckers for another eight years. look, Im from latin america and mccain's project is actually better for us. so it's not like we're doing this for ourselves, it's just sad to see a great nation -- hell, we admit it -- going down in this very melancolic manner.
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and also if this mccain figure dies, we're all fucked and you know it. he's NOT gonna last another eight years.
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Has anyone come to the realization yet that November may either be the greatest fucking month ever or a month that i'll make us want to skydive without a parachute?
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- I am still awaiting your Habeus Corpus argument-let’s hear the suspension. And yes, I understand perfectly what it is….but you don’t. And yes men are held in Guantanamo without civilian trial…just like they have been in every war we have ever wages- including by saints with “D”s after their names. Note to you habeus corpus applies to us citizens not enemy soldiers or combatants. For that we go to Geneva Convention rules (if they meet the standard) or military rules when they don’t I’d teach you a class on this stuff, but you’d have to pay me fist.
- I also know that” that getting rid of habeus corpus subjectively, at the 'discretion' of the US Government is among the most dangerous and repellent things that has occurred in the last century”, unfortunately you don’t know the president that did that to US civilians- he went by the initials FDR (Yup another saint with a “D” after his name). Sorry, your post doesn’t confuse me at all- it does make me laugh at your ignorance though. Maybe when you stop spouting left wing website left wing rhetoric and actually tell me what you are specifically worked up about we can continue your lesson.
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Up there with your excellent "Alexander" review.
Im not American- but I do have family there. Hope you guys do the right thing- its for you to decide.
Anyway- movies!
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I read your big post up there and I pretty much agree with your sentiments about what government should be doing, but I completely disagree that the Republican party is the only one who can get that done. The GOP's been hijacked by a cabal of deceitful assholes who only pay lip service to the real issues and scapegoat their opponents while they continue to pad their wallets and play cowboy on the taxpayer's dime. America is not in the position of power it needs in the world... thanks to the GOP's non-plan for Iraq. Health care is fucked, we have "free speech" zones now, people are being held without trial and spied on without warrants... and Republicans want to pretend it's the fault of gay people and elitist academics and Hollywood. The party of personal responsibility has become the party of shifting the blame and passing the buck. If we're not going to have a violent uprising type revolution against the government to fix this, the least we need to do is throw out anyone who has anything to do with these assholes. That's the only real shot at any kind of change.
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Actually, Obama rarely did well in the Democratic Primary debates, and was awful in that Saddleback forum with McCain. Biden should destroy Palin, but he has to do so matter of factly with no insults, flourishes, etc (which he is known to do). Palin's interview with Charlie Gibson would have been disastrous if Gibson didn't act like some condescending college prof giving an oral exam, always looking over his glasses. This is really such simple stuff.
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As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.
Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.
He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.
He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.
Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.
Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.
joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."
In the U.S. Senate - First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.
The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
The 2007 Government Ethics Bill - The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act. - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods. - and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
Obama's Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
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S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.
S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.
S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.
S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.
S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.
S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.
S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.
S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.
S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.
S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans
S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged. Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.
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so would patrick swayze from donnie darko, because obama is on the love end of the fear/love spectrum. he also has a kiddie porn dungeon just like the swayz
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Wow, I knew Republicans liked getting raped in the ass, but that's taking things a little too far.
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but just as rainbowtrout1265 said they fucked it up by nominating the most liberal inexperienced guy they could find and now they are gonna lose. All they had to do was nominate a solid moderate Democrat with a little experience and they would have won in a landslide. Like I have always said, as soon as the democrats nominate someone worth voting for I will vote for him/her. All the good democrats get the shaft.
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Well someone had to do it.
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ought to be a service as universal as police/fire protection....unfortunately no one Dem or Rep will get it done
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...of my favourite typo ever. The local paper had the following write-up of Crazy/Beautiful: "comedy/drama about the pain and pleasure of FIST love."
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Could we stop with the parade of crocodile tears for Hilary? There is not better lightening rod for conservative hate, than the Clinton one-two punch. All of these 'what if's and 'Obama should have's as a result of the Palin pick are ridiculous. Here's a reality for you: Obama/Clinton v. McCain/Palin would have never happened. It would have be Obama/Clinton v. two white guys and the republican party would have had the only one thing that could have rallied their base more than an anti-womens-health, anti-gay, pro-creationism, pro-theocracy woman on the their own republican ticket: a Clinton on the Democratic ticket. Any Republican or Conservative that says otherwise is a the worst kind of liar: one who believes the average person is dumb enough to fall for such a transparent political ploy.
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"...a solid moderate Democrat with a little experience..." Who fits this bill better than Obama? I'm genuinely curious who you were thinking of.
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Why don't I see that website in advertisements? I've always thought that, why don't these guys have ads telling people where to go to get registered and vote. Usually they just say HEY GO REGISTER YOU LITTLE SHIT!
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There someone had to say that!!
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Sep 13, 2008 5:00:33 PM CDT
Obama has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate
by rainbowtrout1265
He's not even close to a moderate. Obama is probably the only Democrat who could lose in this election cycle. How can he run as the "change" candidate when he votes in lockstep with his party more often than McCain does?
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"Gius"? Were you trying to address me at 04:28:19 PM?
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Someone above said something along the lines "why should you european fags care who we vote in?" Well, the reason us Europeans (and everyone else in the world) cares is because the USA traditionally likes to stick its war-mongering cock into every other country's anus at any given opportunity.
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Amen to that. What happens in America, affects most of the world...unfortunately. It's funny how Obama would be elected in a landslide in Europe and Canada, but in the US....oooh no, it's not so easy to figure out, is it?
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Sarah Palin looks like that jock-loving chick who grins wildly at you and cheers on her football trophy knucklehead boyfriend as he pummels your bloody emo haircut into the bathroom floor at someone's party.
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For Obama’s plan, just read his own site. This is not in dispute. He wants to increase spending by about 800 million. And it is not a “fear tactic from the GOP playbook” to comment that dems will increase taxes and spending - they ADMIT they will. That’s been their platform for decades now- I wish it were not as I would then have an option when I voted- and believe me I want one when I see Neo-cons running the Republican Party Also for clarification, I don’t base my tastes for a candidate on “D” or “R” – it is unfortunate that modern democrats are almost to a person socialists who will hurt the economy (and thus the middle and lower class), but that’s not an all encompassing fact. If JFK were running today on the Policies he used in the 60’s, I would vote for him over McCain. I think he was smarter than McCain and understood economics better….unfortunately the current apples of the “D” party have fallen very far from that tree.
For the record almost all taxes are currently paid by the upper and upper middle class (Check the IRS website for the stats). What Obama will do is increase taxes on investment, on businesses, and on S corps (which are basically run on personal taxes)- and he result is that he will discourage new investment and new business people to take the risk of opening a small business. These businesses also run on very low profit margins *which is why about 8 out of 10 out of business), so increasing taxes on them will put more over the edge and drive more large businesses out of the country. This is not even that complex. Ultimately how the middle class gors and becomes wealthy is by having more jobs that compete with each other for workers- so when you stifle business growth you lessen the numbers and wealth of the middle class. There is a reason the US economy has historically outperforms socialist and communist versions- its indisputavboe and not really that complex. Also JFK gave tax cuts in a time of war (including to the rich). And after both the JFK and bush Tax cuts (as well as those of the 20s and by Reagan) all resulted in the same thing – MORE TAX REVENUE FO THE GOVERNMENT. Indeed the federal government brought in 20% MORE tax revenue AFTER the Bush cuts than it did before. Which is because the economy doesn’t operate in a magical vacuum that is immune from taxes. All you have o do is think like a business owner (Small or large). Do you take a risk on investment where failure is a loss and wining with profit will be obliterated by taxes anyway? Of course not. Which is why time and against low taxes on performance results in more money for the government and a healthier economy. As for driving companies overseas- I agree that Bush and McCain do not have good plans at all on this front – lower taxes help, but free trade and Unions also effect this as to some extent do the incentives you correctly site. Unfortunately Obama is also bad here, and being terrible on the taxes will be what primarily differentiates him form Bush/McCain (He will change the equation- change it for the worse) I watch Fox and CNN regularly and have never seen the Muslim thing- there is no way this is a smear that has had any publicized impact that Obama repeatedly claims. Anyway glad the conversation has been civil- you are certainly right in you criticism that Bush is no conservative. Even in war- he may have understood the lessons of Churchill, but failed to learn those of Nam (he ran the war as Johnson made famous as a Liberal)
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The more Americans hear that Europeans like Obama the more they're likely to vote for McBush
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That was a genuine mistake, believe it or not.
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won't be happy until they elect someone who causes, through continuing Bush foreign policy, causes a bigger terrorist attack than 9/11. I'm talking about something nuclear. Oh, then they'll care what Europe and the rest of the world thinks, when they're sucking up to us for sympathy (again).
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http://tinyurl.com/66hu6w
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The more Americans hear 'liberal Hollywood' doesn't like Palin the more likely they are to vote for McBush (I meant it that time).
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http://i33.tinypic.com/2mwtgnn.jpg
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Or to put it another way, with America being the most powerful nation on Earth, who you vote in will have a significant impact on the other 5.7 billion people who inhabit this planet. However I reckon McCain will be elected as Obhama looked very indecisive over the recent Georgia crisis. Not a good omen for someone who wants to be President and needs to be seen as strong (not that anyone gives a shit what a council estate Limey twat thinks anyway).
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Republicans are becoming indebted to celebs who embarrass themselves with nutty political rants. Do the Dems really want to win the White House this year? If so, they should tell all their celeb supporters to shut up until the election is over.
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liberal political policies work - for the people as a whole - all citizens - they work when legislated properly - conservative policies do not work for all citizens - even when implemented with no discourse or abuse - thr Regan era proved this - see, thats the point - we need a govt that works for all the people - the poor, the non religious, the single parents, the disadvantaged, everyone - even, dare i say it, immigrants - our govt should not function only for rednecks, militant judgmental christians, and the rich and super-rich - they count too, dont get me wrong - but everyone else counts as well - everyone seems to hate bill clinton - but when he was president america wasnt doing too bad - our economy was strong (thanks in part to george sr) the dollar was strong, the middle east wasnt as fucked up - he even went after bin laden - you know who tied his hands on that hunt? - the republicans in congress - apparently getting a blow job is a bigger security threat
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I too suspect McCain will win. I suspect this because Americans are renowned for being stupid. Seriously, very very dumb. Every country besides America knows this. Yours sincerely - A Council Estate Limey Twat (who at least can vote correctly).
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Oh yeah, he played a genius in a film once.
Seriously, Damon's comical rant is about as helpful to Obama as the endorsement from Barbara Streisand -
McCain looks like the fucking ghost from the Ghostbusters logo. All he needs is the big red 'no entry' over him. As if that wasn't enough of a hint!! 'Fire and brimstone falling from the skies, rivers and seas boiling' - sounds like America circa 2010 if McCain wins (and hasn't died by then, moreso if he has).
Vote Obama - Bustin' makes me (and you!) feel good. -
I fear that Palin's gung-ho cheerleading gun loving fundamentalist Christian arab-hating spiel is going to appeal to a lot of A-moron-cans.
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Wow what a loser you are. I am not sure what country you are from but its a safe bet it would'nt be a free one if not for the USA. maybe we should just become isolationists and let the rest of the world go to hell.
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WOW. As a citizen of the USA, Matt Damon has every right to say what he feels about the candidates. Whether the people of this country choose to give credence to his opinion is another matter.I'd say the Republicans should be more worried about the embarrassing nutty political rants of folks like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Ann Coulter who speak on behalf of their party. Sure, they have a right to rant...but really, how embarrassing for you. And our country.
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Well done for buying the whole kit and kaboodle you sheep-brained cunt.
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And woman was not created from a man's rib 4000 years ago. Sorry to burst that bubble.
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I'd refute that claim. The average American seems to know far more about their rights and whats going on in politics and the whole process of governence than the average Brit. And if you voted Labour then I'd say you've voted in one of the most corrupt, incompetent and financially inept governments the UK has ever seen. Mindyou the Tories would be no better!! WE'RE DOOMED!!
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Ok whatever that means, now why don't you go away and let the big kids talk, your mommie and daddie probably need the computer back anyway.
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.......
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Sep 13, 2008 5:29:36 PM CDT
this isn't in the bag for either until after the debates
by eyeofpolyphemus
Chalk meas one who thinks Obama is a pretty lusy debater. He is a geat speaker, but meanders and fumbles about too much when he does not have a teleprompter in front of him. He knows it, too. that is why he avoided the town hall debates McCain wanted.
Nor do I think Biden will destroy Palin, if for no other reason than the is being set so low for Palin. The left has made her ought to be such a drooling, moronic red neck that as long as she says her name correctly, she will win.
Barring some major turn of events, I predict McCain will win. Except for theshortlived post convention bump, Obama has been trending downward since the Pennsylvania primary. The selection of Palin threw his campaign off balance and he has yet to find any way to fix it other than attack, attack, attack, and it has not worked so well for him.
Seriously, if you are running on hope and change, going negative and running with a 30+ year veteran of the US Senate is not the way to go. -
We owe nothing to America. Nothing. Don't believe your own Retardican hype, you buttfucking hillbilly. Go brew up surm moonshine or sumpin, mmmkay?
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Sep 13, 2008 5:30:48 PM CDT
Are Europeans going to mail voting advice to Ohioans again?
by skinjob69
Anyone remember that event in 2004? Didn't work so well, as I recall.
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I'm in my 40s and I have a young family who I'd like to see grow up safely. Stick your republican parents brainwashing back up your flabby white arse you soft little lamb.
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I'll confess, I did indeed vote Labour. But I sure as fuck am not voting for them next time round..maybe the Tories won't be any better, but at least I'll give them a chance. Same principle should apply to America considering the last 8 years.
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Wow, so in hating prejudice you drop the most imbecilic and ignorant rant seen on this entire board….Well played you leftist tool your own words show your stupidity better than anything I could possibly say.
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Don't be such a pussy as to make a remark like that without even admitting what country you are from.
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"Junkie.That's where I'd been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man. Except the highs hadn't been about me trying to prove what a down brother I was. Not by then, anyway. I got high for just the opposite effect, something that could push questions of who I was out of my mind, something that could flatten out the landscape of my heart, blur the edges of my memory. I had discovered that it didn't make any difference whether you smoked reefer in the white classmate's sparkling new van, or in the dorm room of some brother you'd met down at the gym, or on the beach with a couple of Hawaiian kids who had dropped out of school and now spent most of their time looking for an excuse to brawl. You might just be bored, or alone. Everybody was welcome into the club of disaffection.And if the high didn't solve whatever it was that was getting you down, it could at least help you laugh at the world's ongoing folly and see through all the hypocrisy and bullshit and cheap moralism."Source: Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama, p. 87 Aug 1, 1996
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Believe me, I'm way more intelligent than the average American't. It's just very frustrating to watch you flush your country down the toilet, but it's ultimately your choice, and your downfall.
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Brilliant post - well stated sir.
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I am from the UK. So, to reiterate, we don't owe America a fucking thing.
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What a valuable insight into the inexplicable support for the Republicans. I simply cannot believe how anyone under 50 years old can think that the Republicans are going to be good for the world. Their whole mindset belongs to a (supposedly) long-gone era of bigotry, hatred, violence and selfishness.
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we know that there is a whole world out beyond our borders...we just don't care....well accept for the oil....
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If your in your 40's and that is the best you can come up with I feel sorry for your little in-bred bratts. I am sure they would have been much happier under nazi rule.
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couldn't have put that better myself
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Except when you want the rest of the world to fight your wars for you.
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and "bratts" is spelled with one T you illiterate arsehole.
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Really so you had that whole WWII thing locked down by yourself huh? Your history books must look a lot different from ours. i bet you think winston Churchill was a war mongering cunt too.
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This is the thing with Bush. He's a terrible public speaker and seems to have a gift for putting his foot in his mouth. What I can't work out is whether he is years ahead of his time or infact dangerously behind the times. I have a lot of sympathy with him as he's had one of the most challenging and difficult premierships in living memory. I think only time will tell whether his foreign policy was a shrewd and forward thinking one or a kneejerk, guntoting reactionary one. One thing you've got to say for him is that he realised from the start what Russia was up to.
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http://i33.tinypic.com/2mwtgnn.jpg
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you can bet that our history books look different to yours. think about that.
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If you vote Tory next time then you're just as bad as most of these 'dumb' Americans. Sure, Labour have fucked up a bit but that doesn't mean you should automatically switch to the Tories, who, without out a shadow of a doubt would have supported the Iraq debacle even more fervently than Blair and co. had they been in office. Unlike America we don't have a 2 party system. Ever thought of voting Lib Dem? or Green?
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resorting to grammer checks in a talkback, LOL. Did you just get the internet in your corner of the world this week or something? LOL. I am not exactly writing an essay here.
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Oh please....don't try and tell me that a few U.S. pretty boys showing up at the last minute saved us all!! haha...maybe in a TV movie you get shown in school.
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"Personally I wish all of you could vote, period, I think the results would always be better."Probably the most idiotic comment I've ever seen from you. Who are you? The Wizard of Oz?
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I suppose I am currently a floating voter with leniancies towards the Tories. However, I do believe we have a two party system...just unofficially. The Lib Dem's have been completely obscure since Charles Kennedy, and Green...well-meaning definitely, but sure to not have much influence.
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Quote: "Because waterboarding is not torture..."
Oh really? John McCain seemed to think so during one of the Republican debates when he had a rather heated exchange with Mitt Romney over that precise issue:
- You are correct, and that’s just one of many, many areas Mc-Lame is wrong.
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Wow really so they left out the part where my grandfather came halfway across the world to save your sorry ass. Simple question do you wish we had stayed put then? honest answer yes or no?
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And yeah, we just got the internet in our local village called London, where the town crier holds a pitchfork over the door and admits one user at a time. The cost of using the internet here is one sheep and a potato. And electricity runs along string soaked in salty water. Fuck off.
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If you really think Obama is better than an actual conservative you are not more intelligent than the average American, don’t understand why the free market works well, and don’t appear to understand the Chamberlain/Churchill debate from your own history. Obama is clueless on nearly every level. His primary qualification is the fact that Mc-Lame is only about 30% smarter than he is and Bush is only 31% smarter than he is. They are all idiots, but Obama is the bottom of that barrel.
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Sep 13, 2008 5:54:22 PM CDT
Actually see which candidate you agree with, not because you con
by charlie_allnut
Right...as a conservative I am going to vote for higher taxes, greater regulation, a gutted military, more social programs, and William Ayers in the Lincoln Bedroom? Sorry to break it to you Harry but the candidates are respectively liberal and conservative, so liberals are going to vote for Obama and conservatives are going to vote for McCain. "Moderates" will vote based on the headlines during the week of the election. I doubt a socialist hippie is going to be voting McCain...I mean lets get real here. Just sayin.
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America did not save our sorry ass. It had no choice but to get involved sooner or later. America chose 'later', because they were too pussy or too disinterested to fight sooner. Either way, it doesn't deserve much credit.
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let's all make friends, after all, your grandfather came over and saved my sorry ass, didn't he, for which I am eternally grateful.
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You know damn well you were losing before we showed up but I am not saying the US did it alone it was an alliance. hell the germans came close to winning even with our help.
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go back to school you sad little guppy.
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If Obama is clueless on every level, then by U.S. logic he deserves to be elected. Twice.
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...Texas won't be threatened by the onset of destructive hurricanes during his tenure because going green will become a morally imperative chief priority!!!
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oh my
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Okay, so why are you trying to pretend that America swooped in, all square jaws and swinging cocks, and saved all us from the The Evil Forces Of Adolf? That version of WWII is pure Michael Bay.
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The powers that be are laughing hysterically at the citizens of the United States. Remember the old Futurama bit with John Jackson and Jack Johnson or whatever, idental clones? Obama stands for change the same as Pelosi was for change and just as effective, and McCain is duckhouse nuts pure and simple. Obama has nothing and I mean NOTHING in common with Biden, two more polar opposites you'd never find with the exception of McCain/Palin. Anyone who was smart enough to recognize how the people's choice, Ron Paul, was minimized and deliberately eliminated from the primaries knows what I've known for years:The fix is in, there are NO FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES, if there ever were.If you can finally admit it to yourself you'll be a lot less frustrated.
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well put - on republicans - i too dont get the appeal of that party for young hard working middle class americans - they have successfully painted liberals as weak and irresponsible
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You're right about America getting too much credit for saving Europe...You need to thank the Russians just as much.
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absolutely spot-on, well said.
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I don’t hate Bill Clinton. He screwed up some foreign matters pretty bad (such as N Korea and his inept action with terrorists), but you are right- the country mostly did well with him as President. Why? Because that’s the most conservative administration we have seen since Reagan He only had 2 years with the Dem congress, and when actual conservatives took over in the senate and House with (The Contract with America Congress) in the biggest landslide in American HISTORY (not counting the Civil war), Clinton had the political sense to give in from what he wanted to do and sign the bills the Gingrich congress forced down his throat. Because if nothing else he was a good politician. Clinton may have griped about the balanced budget and fought welfare reform in private, but he signed it in public. Unfortunately once the Republicans took over the white house as well, they lost some key members, and many new ones became corrupt and acted like leftists (as did Bush). Incidentally, Impeaching Clinton was asinine and set a horrible precedent even though he did indisputably commit a crime in lying under oath
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No problem with that. I just object to America painting itself the sole saviour of the free world, and the only reason Hitler was defeated. That's just pure runny shit.
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i did'nt think u would answer that question. You all know full well that if the latest bad guy comes knocking at your door (Russia, N Korea, Iran) You will want us to help so don't give me all this crap about how we are war mongering and should stay put. Do you morons actually want N Korea and Iran to have nukes? Do you actually want Russia to start gobbling up countries. If we dont stop them who will Britain, france the UN LOL. the UN will talk you to death while you build an arsenal of nukes
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are ineffective due to having stupid assholes in power in both the Executive and Judicial Branches. They're basically blocking any real changes that are trying to be made by the legislature. Which is way it is important to have Obama win.
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Very true. Obama has been the media darling for the best part of the year, but now...McCain is ahead in the polls and everything points to a third Republican election fix.
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The greatest trick the Republicans ever pulled was to convince a lot of simple-minded sheeple that the word "liberal" is a derogatory term.
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I think I smell a Stephanie Miller Fan...mmmm boxed wine...
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...since I usually hold with the great Dave Barry's description of Democrats and Republicans:
"The Democrats seem to be basically nicer people, but they have demonstrated time and time again that they have the management skills of celery. They're the kind of people who'd stop to help you change a flat, but would somehow manage to set your car on fire. I would be reluctant to entrust them with a Cuisinart, let alone the economy. The Republicans, on the other hand, would know how to fix your tire, but they wouldn't bother to stop because they'd want to be on time for Ugly Pants Night at the country club."
However, in this election I am most definitely voting for Obama/Biden.
As for you folks voting for McCain, I have a question. In the coming election, there are four people who have a chance of sitting in the Oval Office. Of those four, two will only get that chance if one of the other two (the winner) dies or is otherwise incapacitated. If you disregard that for a moment and look at all four individuals, how in the name of holy fuck can you choose the ticket that might place a zealot like Sarah Palin in the highest office of the land?
The woman's a reactionary, creationist, secessionist, hypocritical, book-banning, fundamentalist monster. Seriously, don't tell me you can look at her and not get Greg Stilson vibes coming off of her in chilling waves. She's exactly the sort of person who, if president, will wake her staff in the middle of the night after having a dream and threatening to cut her chiefs' "goddamned hands off" if they don't help her push the button.
Sarah Palin is quite possibly the most diabolical human being to come this close to the Oval Office. God help us all if she becomes president.
"The missiles are flying. Hallelujah." -
wow you really think Britain had it under control without us? What kind of crap are they teaching over there? Of course we got in to late, hind sight is 20/20 you think obama would have gone in sooner? LOL
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Ooh..the UN!! Ohh..no!! Talking!? What a fucking stupid idea diplomacy is!! Much better to just invade, right? I bet all the dead American's in Iraq would agree with you!!
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I'd like to see you in power and try to start wars with Iran and Russia, not only will you drive this whole planet into a pile of huge shit, you'll also be the most universally hated man in history. The economy will be dragged down the fucking gutter if such wars are started. Wars are a LAST RESORT, and you act as if you have the biggest case of blue balls from not having the cold war turn hot.
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Nobody in particular had the Nazi's under control. But please, give up this notion that American's saved us all, your going to end up mentally ill believing things like that.
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The Western Allies not only saved the countries they pushed the Nazis out of, they also saved them from the Soviets.
No D-Day = Stalinist Europe from Dublin to Moscow. -
But does it matter? My vote won't count. The dumb conservative rednecks outnumber our votes. McCain will win
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Oh you mean the party that was started by Abraham Lincoln and was critical to outvoting Southern Democrats to pass civil rights legislation fits that description? Better check your history. Republicans have long been for upholding a color blind society that treats all its citizens as equal as the Constitution calls for. Democrats to this day press legislation that differentials us by race which is both unconstitutional, idiotic, and a great way to keep the country in-fighting....
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The Battle of Kursk is often forgotten in the scheme of things. Hitlers increasing micromanagement and the resources he put into that battle were a major factor in the downfall of Germany. The German losses were catastrophic in the grand scheme of things.That is not to diminish the major contribution of the US on the Western front. It was equally as important.
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We're talking about now. What matters for this modern culture. Instead we follow rules written over 200 years ago, by white racist god loving slave owners
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A vote for McCain, is a vote for Sarah Palin to become president. That old fucker will be die during his first term.
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Unbelievable. Let me guess, it doesn't rank all that high on your personal pain threshold. Does that sound about right?I'm sorry 900LBGorilla, but you're a fucking ghoul. You've got the Republican Presidential candidate John McCain, a man who endured torture for a number of years, telling his PARTY and the COUNTRY that waterboarding IS torture. You know, the guy does know a little something about the subject of pain and torture. And yet, you seem to feel otherwise.Well, congratu-fuckin-lations. I'm sure you're already wearing your "I'd Rather Be Waterboarding" t-shirt as we speak. http://tinyurl.com/6675kl
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Dismay. It is the word that describes how I feel at this point from wasting my time reading "Krigan"'s ill-informed juvenile gobshite.
Dismay seems to be an appropriate word for how millions of ordinary people around the world must feel now as the inevitable result of another pointless US election creeps upon us. -
The Republican party may have once stood for something, but these days the party has become the party of Goldwater and Nixon. A greedy club that lures in an ignorant populace with blatant falsehoods and scare tactics that only serve to divide us.
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Who said anything about wars with them? Are you insane, you think i want a war with either one of them? If I was president I would take out N Koreas nuclear program though, not a full scale war just one bomb. If they start to rebuild you drop another. Of course I would not even do that unless i had warned them and tried to talk them down but I would not let them have nukes. As for Iran I would try to talk them down but as we all know they will never have nukes because Isreal will take care of that. As for Russia that will mostly be diplomacy and a matter of getting their neighbors into nato. under NATo we are all pledged to protect each other or did you not know that?
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I was worried you were like the assholes I meet on a daily basis. The "Let's just nuke em all!" segment of the population really drives me insane.
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I think that pretty muchs sums everything up. Harry, please close this talkback.
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If I am ill informed what does that make you. I actually do not believe anyone could be this dumb so I assume you are a troll just trying to stir things up. Other than call names you have done nothing, not one coherent thought or opinion on anything.
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he has said he doesnt do email or use the internet for anything - sounds trivial i know - but seriously, even my 72 yr old conservative dad emails and uses the internet
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Sep 13, 2008 6:25:11 PM CDT
And those of you voting for McCain should keep in mind...
by mr. nice gaius
...that he declared himself firmly against waterboarding. However, when it came time to vote on US interrogation standards in February, he voted for it. And his reasoning (believing that Bush & Co. would veto the ban!) was beyond foolish.
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" If we dont stop them who will Britain, france the UN LOL".
Nah. France will do a deal for oil or whatever else they've got going!! -
until you look it up, that is.
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that guy was a G
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Why are the Republicans hiding her from the public and press? Think about that.
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or "regular guy" like them, that they can relate to - in office - i dont - im no idiot, but i want someone smarter than me that can handle the pressure and deal with heads of state - a diplomat that doesnt make knee jerk emotional deciscions that can caust 1000s of lives (bush/mccain) - i want a politician in office, not "a guy like me" that id enjoy a beer with - id suck at being president, but i know it - conservatives think theyre all the same - theyre all equal in terms of ability and intelligence - a conservative hates being shown his/her ignorance on a subject - a very male trait - not admitting that you might be wrong or dont know something
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"...Because he's an uncaring republican"
Bastard who aren't compassionate democrats like you should all die, right, 69dude? You realize that Obama would really like supporters like you to stop talking?
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Actually America did largely save your bacon so stop with the hyperbole. Without the US, it wold have been RUSSIA in a 2 front war rather than Germany. Also the longer that war went on the greater effect German Technology would have had. Where you are right is that the US entered later than we should have and though we supplied you (and Russia), we screwed England on some promises such as destroyers early in the war. You can, however, thank our left wing president FDR for that screw up…actually we all got lucky that Hitler invaded Russia as FDR’s indecisiveness would have turned out much worse had that not happened (FDRs own cabinet wrote a letter about how paralyzed he was and how he stopped showing up to meetings when it looked darkest for England). On a sidenote the lionized FDR is the same president who had the same wring headed liberal non- war arguments that you 2 seem to agree with a SECOND time. He also thought that becoming “friendly” and using stick-less negotiations with Stalin would get him to leave Poland and Eastern Europe alone after WWII….oooops Sorry Eastern Europe, like Chamberlain before him FDRs “peaceable intentions” got a lot of you killed and took your freedom.
On a side note, England is given FAR too little credit in that war when we cite the Russian impact on WWII. Had they not invented Radar and had the Brave English pilots not outfought the Nazis in a tide turning battle for Britain, the Russians would have had a fare more formidable and intact Luftwaffe to deal with- and the Russians were pushed to the brink a couple times in that war- this (and lack of American mass bombing of German industry) certainly could have turn the tide completely or given German industry the time to perfect the Jet or invent a Bomb of its own.
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Krigan, do you know anything about how North Korea's nuclear facilities are layed out? Above ground, under ground? One bomb, huh? What kind of magic bomb are we talking about here?
What about North Korea's reaction? Do you give one shit about the hundreds of thousands of South Korean civilians who would perish in North Korea's retaliation? Or the U.S. troops who would get steamrolled because we currently don't have the conventional forces to repel an invasion? How about North Korea's promise to strike at Japan as well? How about the very real chance that China would use the conflict to retake Taiwan, a U.S. friendly country we'd basically be handing to the Chinese?
Do you, in fact, have any coherent thought in your head regarding international politics? -
JONATHAN HAIDT is Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Virginia. " What makes people vote Republican? Why in particular do working class and rural Americans usually vote for pro-business Republicans when their economic interests would seem better served by Democratic policies? We psychologists have been examining the origins of ideology ever since Hitler sent us Germany's best psychologists, and we long ago reported that strict parenting and a variety of personal insecurities work together to turn people against liberalism, diversity, and progress. But now that we can map the brains, genes, and unconscious attitudes of conservatives, we have refined our diagnosis: conservatism is a partially heritable personality trait that predisposes some people to be cognitively inflexible, fond of hierarchy, and inordinately afraid of uncertainty, change, and death. People vote Republican because Republicans offer "moral clarity"—a simple vision of good and evil that activates deep seated fears in much of the electorate. Democrats, in contrast, appeal to reason with their long-winded explorations of policy options for a complex world.
Diagnosis is a pleasure. It is a thrill to solve a mystery from scattered clues, and it is empowering to know what makes others tick. In the psychological community, where almost all of us are politically liberal, our diagnosis of conservatism gives us the additional pleasure of shared righteous anger. We can explain how Republicans exploit frames, phrases, and fears to trick Americans into supporting policies (such as the "war on terror" and repeal of the "death tax") that damage the national interest for partisan advantage." -
No, not because he's an uncaring Republican, but because America clearly can't make the right choice on it's own. If he were out of the picture, they would be left with the clearly unelectable Stepford Wife - Sarah Palin, and not be blindsided by unelectable John McCain's war stories.
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Well said, sir. And spot on about Palin. She is legitimately frightening on several levels. I feel that McCain's decision to pick her is about as transparent as they come. She is the means with which to motivate the far-right/evangelical voters who have remained ambivalent towards McCain. And when you consider this along with his piss-poor vetting process, it just reeks of a flippant risk bordering on lunacy.
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You know, I really hope the next President decides to cut back military spending. Start with Europe, please. They don't want us there anyway. We could save alot of money closing those bases and bring our troops home to spend their paychecks here. While we're at it let's send them the bill for the Marshall Plan. Disband NATO too, the cold war is over. We should make nice with Putin. The world is big enough for the two of us. They got oil and gas we need and I'm sure they wouldn't mind selling it to us. And if they want to take back the eastern block, go ahead. If they want to bully western europe, so what. They don't need us Yanks. They can take care of themselves like they did with what was formerly Yugoslavia. Oh wait, they complained because we didn't send our troops in soon enough. We Yanks never can send our boys to die soon enough for them. Of course, I wonder what worries them more? Russia or the radicals in their backyard that they can't seem to appease enough. BTW, I'm not Republican. I consider myself an independent who might vote Obama. He might do just that.
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theyre hiding her for the same reasons we think her being picked is a joke - theyre afraid she might stick a foot in her mouth - watch the charlie gibson interview - she is a joke
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Your right, we do need Americans! They make great cannon fodder......(that was a joke!!). :)
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I watched the Charlie Gibson interview, and yes, she was incredibly false and backtracked on virtually every issue he brought up. I hope the American public wake up to her before it's too late.
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If only there were less people like you in the world.
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is an ignorant, stupid woman. And not only because she called her son 'Track'.
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Probably short for 'backtrack'. She does that a lot.
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Japan does not want N Korea to have nukes they have been very vocal about it. I did say that there would be diplomacy first did'nt I? If we got to the point where bombing the facility was necessary we would make sure S korea and Japan were protected but do you really think N Korea Would try to grab S Korea just because A plant they were warned about was taken out? I guess the better option would be to let them have nukes and nuke Japan or perhaps even give to a terrorist to nuke britain or USA. Has'nt Japan been nuked enough already?
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Elect this man now!
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Also believes the earth is only 5000 years old. So...y'know all those dinosaurs you saw in the Jurassic Park movies? All those bones in the museums etc? It's all made up, sorry.
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I was being sarcastic. Look I have European heritage and I have no problem with Europe. I don't expect them to kiss our butt either. But, damn we take enough insults from the French, we don't need the Brits beating us up too. :)
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Just ask her what the Bush Doctrine is. Watch her backtrack...
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Never mind about the French, they are an insult to themselves. We should know, we live far too near for our liking.
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should make a national address saying if the American public doesn't elect Obama then he'll never release 'Avatar'.
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Get a grip Gius we do things harder than waterboarding in some military training for Seals, special ops forces ets.- is THAT torture too?. You are whining about a scary tactic that does no permanent damage whatsoever to a guy who would blow you up in an instant. This is called living in fantasy land. Is water boarding nice – no and neither is blowing up women and children…neither is bombing or shooting someone in a war…..in fat waterboadring is nicerthan any of that. I would bet you any amount of money that you would find waterboarding to be VERY distinguishable from real torture if you had the option of spending half a day with that option or the same time in a Vietnamese prison a camp, in Saddam Husseins actual torture rooms, or at the mercy of terrorists who chop off body parts. Comparing these is beyond silly- it’s childish.
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there is no bush doctrine, that is a generic term referring to many things bush did post 9/11. It was obvious charlie did'nt know what it was either he was asking a question he was told to. If you are so smart please enlighten us what is it?
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but especially 'cause she named her son 'Track'. What kind of loving mother would saddle her kid with a name like that?I see the headlines if he's killed in Iraq: 'He ran out of track', 'Blood on the Track' etc...
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"like Chamberlain before him FDRs “peaceable intentions” - Chamberlain may have been smarter than history gives him credit for. He managed to buy Britain a year in which to arm ourselves. If he'd gone in guns blazing in 38;, Britain would have been easily defeated. He bought us time for you to make your bloody minds up!! ;-)
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Do you know anything about North Korea? Or Japan? At all? If bombed, North Korea would invade South Korea in an instant. Once their final hand folds, which the bombing of their nuke facilities would entail, they would launch an all-out final bid to take the south. They have also already demonstrated that they have missiles capable of reaching Japan, whether armed with a nuclear warhead or conventional ordinance. Do you think Japan wants any kind of missile swarm darkening their skies?
You still haven't explained how your magic single bomb would work. -
The last 5 years looks like Hot Shots: Part Deux. I mean it, watch that movie again it's like a friggin prophecy. Lloyd Bridges' 'George W Bush' is better than anything Josh Brolin could come up with.
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Obama? How can you .. maybe you are too young to recall Ann Richards, my favorite politician of all time. Sarah Palin is Ann Richards reborn - and even more two fisted. My only real gripe w/ your almost nonpartisan post, though, is that you divided people into Democrats or Republicans. How about us Libertarians!? (Though since Sarah came along, I am tempted to switch my vote from Bob Barr)
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I like spending my own cash the way I please. Not to be taxed out the ass to fund lots of special programs in social experimentation and socialist goals like government-run health care. I'll choose my own doctor, thanks. Oh, and taxing the big business? Guess what happens after that brilliant idea. Those companies raise prices to compensate. Wheee!
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Tell me if you think this is not going to happen.
If John McCain wins we will remain in Iraq for four more years. Soldiers will continue to die, however the insurgency probably will wane. Civilian deaths will occur, but no more than they have in recent past. John McCain will reward those rich people and corporations that make the economy flourish by making their tax cuts permanent. The presence of a republican in the whitehouse will quickly improve consumer confidence and the economy will show an immediate but only slight improvement. The economy will slowly recover from this low point we are in. Banks will eventually relax their underwriting criteria, allowing more investment and home prices will rise back to where they should be. Sarah Palin will succeed in pushing for ANWR to be available to oil companies, and within a few years after that we may see some bit of relief in part of our energy problems. Sarah Palin might also make a succesful push for the development of many nuclear reactors, and environmental protest of that will sound like a whisper in contrast to the demand for smarter energy efforts. Sarah also might show some bit of effort to remove at least some corruption in Washington, both on the right and the left. She will not succeed in overturning Roe vs. Wade, although not from lack of trying perhaps. Overall we will basically have a very similar situation over the next four years as we have now, except our economy will have improved, gas prices may be the same as they are now.
If Obama wins he will pull out our troops as soon as possible, which I think will be in two years. No more of our soldiers will die of course from that point, however the civil war that is simmering right now will completely errupt into a lake of blood. Sunni vs. Shia war will result in the death of hundreds of thousands if not millions. Maqtada al-Sadr will use his violent nature to quickly remove Talabani and al-Maliki, and he will rise as the great power of Iraq, perhaps a more vicious man than even Saddam Hussein. The Shia will dominate over Sunni, and perhaps exterminate them as best they can. Back in our home where the troop withdrawl will have saved the lives of thousands of our marines, we may actually never see a terrorist attack on american soil, but this will by no means be as certain as it has been over the last 8 years. Obama will reduce our millitary as much as he possibly can, our borders will be ultra absorbant, and a delicate homeland defense will be constantly juggling the efforts of Al Qaeda with less authority than they have ever had before to prevent the attack. Another terrorist attack within our borders may actually occur. On the economic front, Obama will fulfill his promise to raise capitol gains tax from the current 15% to 25 or 28%. This will immediately reduce revenues as capitol investment will plummet. Obama will also increase taxes on corporations and on employers across the country, whereby there will be reduced expansion and increased cutbacks- unemployment will rise slightly. The 95% of americans that Obama promises to lower taxes on will not all get the tax cuts they were promised as his plans for government expansion will not jive with such cuts- the middle class will see either a tax increase or at best, taxes will remain the same. Obama will make speaches about alternative energy plans and efforts, and he will reward companies that seek alternative energy solutions for both transportation and generating stations. A cheaper, cleaner form of energy will NOT be found in a form that is economical and practical. This alternative energy initiative will have been the basket into which we have placed all our eggs, and when that shows no results, we will find ourselves in harsher energy problems in four years. In dealing with our foreign policy in efforts to improve a coalition against terrorism, Barack Obama will find greater cooperation among European nations than did George Bush. This will unfortunately result ultimately in a lackluster effort. Back again at home, Michelle Obama will have made considerable efforts to improve the legality of partial birth abortions, and she may even succeed. Barack will most likely make a big push to improve the quality of inner city schools, the change will be unnoticable. So to wrap up, in four years our economy will be slower than it is now with more unemployment, though we will have lost less soldiers in the Iraq occupation, at least hundreds of thousands more of Iraqis will have died than would have otherwise. Muqtada al Sadr will rule Iraq with an iron fist in a brutal theocratic regime. Energy prices including the price of gas will most likely be higher. The gas may be up to $5 or even $6.
Now these are my predictions based on information that I have been paying attention to, and using my logic. I am sure there are many people who would disagree with my logic here, perhaps even they don't think I am correct with my facts. If you think I am wrong on any of these details, by all means please share with me why. I am extremely open to differing interpretations as long as they are based on serious logic and facts, and not based on purely hopeful pipe dreams. My point is, if I am wrong, I really want to know why. -
He went and proposed loose nuke legislation?
With a republican?
Went to Russia? Why would we want to talk to them?
Next thing you know he'll want to talk to Iran. ....
That would be silly. What good is diplomacy in a world filled with inherently evil people?
Yeah yeah he's a constitutional scholar. But as Alberto Gonzales said ... the constitution is a quaint document.
This country isn't about the constitution...it's about jingoism .... gay marriage ... the rights of fetuses ... hunting with automatic weapons.
They really ought to put that stuff in the constitution for it to be relevant. -
for fuck's sake.
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Because unlike dim wits who vote Democrat Republicans understand that pro-business IS pro middle class. The middle class expands and becomes rich when there are lots of JOBS and opportunities to create your own business….IE a PRO BUSINESS environment.
The idea that an inefficient business killing bureaucratic system is “pro middle class” because it gives us some meager pittance to replace the jobs it drives away is beyond dim-witted. I don’t kno how anyone who has taken Economics 101 can vote for this.
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Nope Chamberlain is an idoit. ENgland had a FAR stronger military than Germany at the outset. Germany was not even ALLOWED a real military post WWI - they had to develop one- ENgland already had it....Hitler admits in writing even when he crossd the Rhine that he would have retreated if pressed as he was still not ready.
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Like I said we would secure S korea first. As far as the bomb goes, I never claimed to be an arms expert but a bunker buster bomb would probably do fine. japan has threatened N korea themselves in the past so if the Nuclear program gets too far along they will be begging us to do something. You need to understand that no one is saying to do this now it is a last resort and if we deploy troops in south korea first and are firmly dug in, N Korea will not try anything and if they do they would be swiftly defeated. We only have trouble when we deal with a hidden enemy like the terrorists in Iraq. A obvious enemy like n Korea would not pose nearly the same threat. As soon as they showed aggression toward S Korea we would quickly take out all their air fields and bomb their roads and bridges to S Korea. We could easily protect S Korea but invading N Korea would be far trickier and that isgetting way ahead of things anyway. You are making me sound like a war monger and as i said bombing the facility should ba a LAST RESORT!
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Aren’t you English- my prior post cites the BASICS of Churchill’s point. WWII would have been a minor conflict with Germany on the ass end of an ass kicking had Chamberlain acted on time.
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Except when you want the rest of the world to fight your wars for you...i don't think so....maybe assist us, but in all honesty we'd like you to get out of our way, and not interfere or prevent us for doing what needs to be done...maybe a history lesson is needed as well, a little thing called WW2, would've been a whole different without LendLease and our involvement...
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I tried posting something on this page last night and i thought the talkback was disabled because it didnt show up. It was cooler when I thought it was disabled.
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I should point out the Churchill Chamberlain debate began almost a decade prior to WWII- there was a lot of time to force Germanys compliance with WWI treaties. Though I cite the Rhine as too early for Hitler by then it would hav been very difficult as Chamberlain had waffled so long…. “PEACE IN OUR TIME!” Woops guess not...sorry to the 60 Mill Dead...but its all good cause he was a lib and had good intentions (inept is trumped by intentions).
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And like I said before, it's obviously a pain threshold thing for you. Because it doesn't involve drills, pliers, or some sort of cutting device you think it's acceptable.Quote: "...a scary tactic that does no permanent damage whatsoever..."Well, as far as damage and harm is concerned, a basic Wiki definition provides at least this much:"Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, psychological injury, and death. The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure."What seems lost on you is that the increase and APPROVAL of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (a term coined and used by the Nazis), means we lose the moral high ground on any sort of torture debate. It also puts our troops and citizens at risk should they be captured/abducted in various places around the world. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?I'd like to see how you faired under a waterboarding session. If you don't find it all that bothersome, maybe you can then volunteer for one of these vague military exercises that you seem to think validates the use of waterboarding.
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Really? How would you go about "securing" South Korea first? How would you go about creating the military resources necessary for such an effort? Or would you divert them from somewhere else? How would you keep a build-up like that secret from the pathologically paranoid North Koreans?
Japan has threatened North Korea? After WWII? With what? Japan has virtually no offensive capabilities whatsoever. Their armed forces are strictly of a defensive nature and minute.
One bunker buster? For an entire nuclear weapons facility?
"N Korea will not try anything and if they do they would be swiftly defeated."
No, they will not be swiftly defeated. Yes, they will ultimately lose but only after causing a gargantuan loss of life, both South Korean, American and, yes, North Korean. The destruction wreaked by the North Korean army would be devastating. They're well trained, well equipped and highly motivated. Going to war with North Korea wouldn't be the same as going to war with Saddam's troops. It would be very, very difficult and very, very costly. -
I'm not sure how many I'll be able to visit on election day, but I'll be sure to hit all the battlegrounds.
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Really, dude? "The first black guy that doesn't talk like a moron" - and you accuse OTHERS of being fucking shallow?
And yeah, Obama's gonna raise spending by $800 million.
$800 MILLION? Oh my GOSH, that's, what....an extra hour or two out of the yearly federal budget? Certainly nowhere NEAR some of the tax breaks Republicans gave to corporate giants. Heaven forbid that they (and their stockholders) pay THEIR fair share, eh? -
Well said, and pretty much the end of that debate.
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain what the hell Harry was babbling about in his piece. He says (quote): "You can still register to vote in the upcoming Fall election. Now - to do that - you need to be a citizen of the United States and be over the age of 18. Personally I wish all of you could vote, period, I think the results would always be better. However, it's only those over the age of 18 in the United States."Seriously, what the fuck does THAT mean? Does Harry actually think 7-year-olds should be voting? Or that people who AREN'T U.S. citizens should be determining who OUR President should be?Is that what Leftists like Harry actually believe -- that OUR elections should be determined by other people? Wait, let me guess, this is where someone is going to say "Yes, that IS how it should be! The United States is too powerful a country to decide for ITSELF how it should be run!" Seriously, I've already had my eyes pop and jaw drop at other web sites where ultra Leftists have made that argument. That the outcome of American elections should be determined by the rest of the world, which truly stuns me that anyone could even think that way...
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Our choices are, like always, a right-wing kook and a left-wing kook.
And seriously, you foreigners should stop interfering our business-- it will probably blow back in your face. Part of the reason we're stuck with Bush is because foreign assholes like Elton John started telling Americans to vote Democratic. -
you dont know what youre talking about - that regan theory doesnt work - it hasnt worked - are you a small business man? - do you employ a staf and provide benefits and a livable wage for each employee? - whats your overhead? - if you dont break even (make just enough to keep the lights and air conditioning on) do you skip filing at the end of the year? - republican policies/economics doesnt work - correction, they work great if your a very successsful business owner that doesnt worry about going under - do you know why when asked what qualifies as middle class McCain said anyone making less than 5 mil? - because thats roughly what he makes in a year (4-5 mil) - and he desperately wants to see himself as middle class - the country is broke and broken and republican politicians and their policies (foreign and domestic) are the reason - and you cannot and will not admit it to yourself - like all republicans/conservatives - at their convention the hot topic sound bite was "small town values" - what are they? - you tell me - then tell me how the last 8 yrs have helped any small town in america
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I may be a ghoul but you are a child.
A) You seem hung up on “terms” which is just a silly way to avoid the conversation.
B) If you think that terrorists are going to be nice to prisoners if we don’t waterboard then man I don’t know what to tell you – that level of naiveté is astounding
C) Yes torture is defined by damage and pain levels
D) You seem to have this fantasy land ideal that we can fight evil with harsh words- this has never been the case, and never will be. I wish it were, but that’s called fantasy land. We have every right to use fear abnd force short of actual torurte to scare evil people in order o save innocent lives. A terrorist who would blow up a woman or child loses his right to niceness. Sorry dude.
D) You continually fail to reconcile that we train our own troops with harsher and more painful exercises- do we then torture ourselves too yes no maybe? (I hear crickets)
F) Being reduced to citing the heavily discredited wiki is just funny.
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I am on your side here, and you have made some very intelligent points that people should listen to, however, you have made some seriously stupid comments as well, and this does our side NO good in this argument. "The first black guy that doesn't talk like a moron"? Please don't say something so incredibly stupid, please please please don't, not if you are representing conservatism. My life has been spent hearing a chorus of voices of extremely intelligent black people, many of them in politics. Barack is by no means the first intelligent black polititian to speak his voice. I simply do not agree with his politics which I believe to be socialist politics. I think he is far closer to socialism than any democrat presidential nominee in recent history. Also 900LbGorilla, don't go saying that waterboarding is A-OK, just don't talk about it at all. I highly doubt you are an expert on interogation and an expert on torture, so just keep your mouth shut altogether on that one- likewise, people who are against waterboarding with a similar lack of knowledge should probably be more thoughtful than their natural reaction wants them to be. But 900lbGorilla, don't be so incredibly obnoxious with your debate, you are saying some careless things that make you look looney- leave the looney talk to the liberals if you can, they won't dissapoint.
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LMFAO- The Reagan theory is called Macro ECONOMICS 101 and has been PROVEN to work without dispute for over 100 years on a major modern level and countless times prior. JKK understood it-that’s why he also followed it.
I do not own a small business, but I have worked doing the books for aspects of one, and have worked for large and small companies.
I have also studied economics and it is clear to me based on your post that you have not. There is not much else I can even say to you other than pick up a book and study economics and the history of capitalism and socialism. There is not even a debate here, you need to go learn about the topic- maybe then your vote will be more informed (and if so it will be different).
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I never said "The first black guy that doesn't talk like a moron" and would not say anything like that. Color has nothing to do with this. I would vote Michael Steel for President (an African American Republican) over McCain, Palin or Bush Not sure who’s post you saw, but those weren’t my words..
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Ah, but you can't beat a good bit of revisionist history, I like playing devils advocate ;-)
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You are the second poster that has quoted me saying "The first black guy that doesn't talk like a moron. I have never said this unless I copied someone elses post into one of mine- where are you guys seeing this?
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I really like Michael Steel too. Ok I will go check exactly what you said. Perhaps someone twisted your words, but I could swear I saw your post say something to that effect, and it was not cool.
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I agree- that would be beyond simply not cool- so let me know wherever it was.
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Excuse me, in no way am I avoiding the conversation. In fact, I'm right in your face about it.You already lost this argument when you said that waterboarding is not torture. It's been defined as such by everything from the most basic of Wiki entries (nice token "heavily discredited wiki" jab) to the Army Field Manual, Geneva Conventions and United Nations Convention Against Torture. Techniques such as this have been shown to be ineffective and are not endorsed by the Intelligence community who is certainly more experienced with extracting information from suspects than you. Your ignorance and apparent desire to validate the use of torture is astounding.
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Sep 13, 2008 7:50:13 PM CDT
"Sarah Palin is quite possibly the most diabolical human being t
by rainbowtrout1265
Again, this unhinged hyperbole is the kind of thing that leads to Republican victories in a Demorcatic year.
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In case you hadn't noticed, there's a Republican in the White House now, yet somehow consumer confidence is still low.
Our economy is not "flourishing". Large and growing numbers of highly educated Americans are stuck with low-paying nowhere jobs because those rich people you praise are sending decent jobs to third world workers. I think being rich is already enough of a reward for those rich people without us having to make them even richer by bowing to their oligarchy.
ANWR: start developing now, production begins in about ten years, by which time world competition for oil is so intense that the relative trickle coming out of that place makes essentially no difference to oil prices. I don't think you understand what a tiny fraction of world oil production that place potentially is.
Corruption: Palin lied about the Bridge to Nowhere and her state's addiction to Federal earmarks. She has abused her power as Governor to settle personal scores. If we have to depend on the likes of her to battle corruption, I say we enlist Doctor Doom to battle megalomania.
"Lake of Blood": must you resort to lurid overstatement to make your points? In all likelihood Iraq will continue to be a shithole no matter when we depart or who does the departing.
Michelle Obama: what? She'll be First Lady, not VP. She may state her views, but she won't have any power to make policy. For that matter, the VP has no actual power to make policy either, unless it's to break a tie vote in the Senate.
Nuclear Power Plants: we could probably use a few more. We'd need 1500 to replace all current power generation. Don't be so sure Obama will oppose them.
Gas prices: they will be at least $6/gallon within four years regardless of any domestic drilling we can possibly do, or any hand-waving on the part of McCain.
Paragraph breaks: good. I'd continue to sort through your predictions, but that immense block of text makes it even more uninviting. -
Why the hell don't line breaks produce paragraph breaks in this primitive messaging board?
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The first blackman quote was posted by klinteastwood in a post named "Liberals everywhere are scared LOL". Its near the top.
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"Back in our home where the troop withdrawl will have saved the lives of thousands of our marines, we may actually never see a terrorist attack on american soil, but this will by no means be as certain as it has been over the last 8 years."
I'm not absolutely sure what you're trying to say here, but if it's that we've been "certainly" safe from terrorist attacks for the past 8 years, I don't see how you can say that seeing as we had a pretty big one 7 years ago, early in the Bush administration. -
Amazingly you still HAVE avoided the question so I ask again -you continually fail to reconcile that we train our own troops with harsher and more painful exercises- do we then torture ourselves too yes no maybe? (I still hear crickets) Incidentally
former CIA agents have defended the use of waterboarding as an interrogation tool, insisting that the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah, a major al Qaeda figure, got him to talk in less than 35 seconds. So its ineffectiveness or the need to do it for extended periods is a myth. Should it be sued frequently- hell no....but to rule it out in drastic situations is insane.
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Oops.
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Thanks-I was worried I may have copied that into one of my posts-especially when 2 people thought I said that!
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>>>. Glad to know you are above prejudice Cap'n...it's class acts like you that make the world a better place.
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-Glad to see you are above prejudice Cap’n. Its “enlightened people like you” that make the world a better place…by the way where are you from Nazi Germany Circa 1941?
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Yes, you sub-literate simpleton, liberals everywhere are scared LOL. You wouldn't understand why LOL. We don't think Obama is a Christ figure, we just think he's a smarter man than McCain, with more integrity LOL. He's also more naive than McCain, more trusting that he should be able to win on the issues while remaining polite and not dealing in lies, slander, and obfuscation LOL. So he's certainly likely to lose due to the obtuseness of clowns like you LOL.
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Amazingly, you still deny that waterboarding is torture. Even the folks who interrogated Abu Zubaydah admitted as much.As for your question, I'm aware that we train our military (and the various sub-branches) by subjecting them to numerous hardships. I'm not going to assume to know what precise "exercises" you are referring to. Do you know what these are or are you hiding behind vague assumptions about our military?
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the choices a creepy *uncle* or a flim flam man that promises everyone everything
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...it's not really torture, is it? The torture is the fear of death. It's psychological, not necessarily physical. I don't think people in military training exercises are really expecting to die. If some guy came up and assaulted me on the street, that is and should be illegal, but if you enlist and your drill instructor kicks your dick in the dirt for weeks straight, that's to be expected and it's consensual. The "logic" that people use to justify their torture boners is ridiculous.
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Remember that part in the intro where the Liberals and Republicans had that giant battle in the woods in the beginning? That was awesome! Bitchin' soundtrack from Hans Zimmer btw!
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I stand by every word. Sarah Palin truly is that vile.
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Amazingly you still equate waterboarding to actual torture when you KNOW you wouldn't have to think for a 1/100th of a second about which to endure- waterboarding or actual torture as I defined prior- and as torture was defined prior to this being a political football with politicians relying on the connotation of a far more extreme word (torture). Some of our ops are waterboarded, some endure extremely low temp waters for very extended periods after extreme exertion, and some undergo portions of interrogation techniques they may face. Some die in training. Much of this is as or more rough than waterboarding- none of it is as rough as what Saddam, a WWII Japanese soldier, a terrorist, or many others would do to you to get information with actual torture techniques that actually make the word have the well deserved horrific connotations that Waterboarding does not meet.....Again I wouldn’t use it much, but if its between a planner who may be set to pull off another WTC and this….no contest- and I bet most Americans would agree. so do we torture our own Special forces?
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You're on fire tonight.
Waterboarding is torture; it would be easier for Gorilla to just admit it and say he supports it. Just be honest. We don't judge here.
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Reading Gorilla's pretzel logic posts.
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..have a look at how many wars were trumped up right around the time the money started to tank. Fractional reserve banking ALWAYS fails and shortly before it does, or directly after, that nation ALWAYS goes to war.It's a very old game and I am sick to my soul that modern society still falls for it. Remember the Lusitania? Remember Pearl Harbor? Remember the Gulf of Tonkin? Remember 911? It's called problem, reaction, solution, when will people learn to stop sailing off to some foreign land to kill other people for some fictional bullshit so that rich people can stay rich and poor people can stay poor? These jackasses running for office are bought and sold and to sit around arguing over heads is better than tails misses the point that it's the same goddamned coin! WAKE THE FUCK UP!
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Yes playing loud music and putting underwear on guys is also torture.... the US is horrible. We might as well just put bamboo shoots up thier fingernails and place peoples feet first into industrial paper shredders...its really all the same ya know. I love how you guys get hung up more on a word than the actual act- we NEEEEED to change th definition of torture so we have a buzzword. its SOOOOOOOO important- really. Talk about semantics over substance.
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Maybe while we're at it we should call call our troops murderers when they win a battle and demand they use rubber bullets so they arent murderers anymore- how's that sound?
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Ditto!!!
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That sounds pretty stupid. Just like all your arguments. Next.
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What up homes?
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Volunteering to experience the sensations of waterboarding is far from the same as being waterboarded by strangers in a strange place. The trust factor is completely absent, replaced by a real fear of loss of life.
Police subject themselves to Tasers to experience the pain. Doesn't mean a Taser isn't effective against a real perp.
Gorilla you paying attention? -
Damn You Michael Bay
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Great post. Excellent point.
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Thanks. And Gorilla knows waterboarding is torture; he just doesn't want to admit it despite his full-on endorsement.
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..without simply appointing a dictator.
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Quote: "Yes playing loud music and putting underwear on guys is also torture.... the US is horrible."Your forgot about how we've beat some folks to death. Maybe you should read up more on some of the results of using these more extreme (aka outside the Army Field Manual, Geneva Conventions, etc.) techniques.Quote: "Maybe while we're at it we should call call our troops murderers when they win a battle and demand they use rubber bullets so they arent murderers anymore- how's that sound?"Sounds like an incredible straw man deflection.
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Nope. Nothing about this topic is funny. But thank you for showing us your true colors.
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So torture is defined by "fear"? Give it up guys...Waterboarding does not = Amputations, crucficitions, or human paper shredders....Troops shooting someone in battle is closer to murder than this is to torture. Question-have we thus agreed rubber bullets are necessary in teh army?
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"Your forgot about how we've beat some folks to death. Maybe you should read up more on some of the results of using these more extreme (aka outside the Army Field Manual, Geneva Conventions, etc.) techniques>>>>.
-Now changing the subject to beating someone to death from a non lethal tactic that does not cause permanent damage IS a PERFECT example of a strawman. and Geneva conventions don't even allow QUESTIONING beyond name rank and serial #....this isnt EVEN a strawman-its off topic. (The Geneva Conventions also SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDE terrorists form the rights by the way). -
When was the last time either party ever did anything to heal this country? Republicans sell us out to corporate America, ensuring our further enslavement to high prices and unemployment, Democrats are only interested in appeasing to those crazy special interest groups that claim to fight for what's good and right but destroy what made the country great in the process with their political correctness and forced "open mindedness". The two parties are supposed to balance each other so that no one extreme can rule but both strip our rights away and give power to those who have no right to it. I can't complain if I don't vote? Well, I've been voting and I'm still complaining. I'm not gonna waste any overpriced gas driving to the voting booth this year. I'm just gonna sit back and watch the Dempublicans bicker, screw up and bring the whole country down around their ears. Happy voting.
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Your welcome -its also the true colors of most americans when it comes to extreme cases cause unlike you they don't live in an ivory tower in a fantasyworld. So guess I'll ask- President Gaius has a senior Al Queda operative (as we did) and who we think has material knowlege of an updcoming attack and says go bleep yourself when asked.....Preident Gaius let's innocent women and children die rather than runing water over the evil planner' head? Really?
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Sep 13, 2008 9:07:24 PM CDT
Sadly, it will probably take another 9/11 to wake people up agai
by skinjob69
Like the man says- They pull a knife; you pull a gun. They put one of your guys in the hospital; you put one of theirs in the morgue.
And that's how you beat Al-Quaida.
Or something like that.
And this might be hyperbole. -
... You are dumb. Sorry but you are. Now read this: http://tinyurl.com/6jnjjb
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Max Frost and the Troopers, "Wild In The Streets"
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The only logical reason I see anyone voting for democratic is they have an issue with inequality in this world. Their policies are positively Marxist and the Democratic Party for the most part has been leaning farther and farther left on the political spectrum. What would be considered Democratic back in the time of Roosevelt would be considered Republican today. The spectrum changes on a yearly basis. The democratic pledge to lower the taxes on the middle class and poor but raise the taxes on the upper class. This doesn’t make sense. First off the president does not have the ability to modify the laws. That is the job of Congress, which for the record has been controlled by the democrats the last four years. And it is interesting to note according to the Wall Street Journal one of the leading financial periodicals worldwide
This is an excerpt from Ari Fleischer’s The Taxpaying Minority
“If the tax forms you're filing this year show Uncle Sam entitled to any income tax, you increasingly stand alone. The income tax system is so bad, and increasingly reliant on a shrinking number of Americans to pay the nation's bills, that 40% of the country's households -- more than 44 million adults -- pay no income taxes at all. Not a penny.
Think of it this way. After dropping off your tax forms at the Post Office, you find 100 people standing on the sidewalk. Forty of them will be excused from paying income taxes thanks to Congress. Twenty of them, the middle class, will pay barely a thing. The 40 people who remain, the upper middle class and the wealthy, will pay nearly all of the income taxes.
Look at that crowd again and find the richest person there. That individual will pay 37% of all the income taxes owed by those 100 people. The 10 richest people in the crowd will pay 71% of the income-tax bill. The 40 most successful people will pay 99% of everyone's income taxes. Yet for some lawmakers in Washington, these taxpayers aren't paying enough. Our tax system comes up short in a lot of areas. It doesn't foster economic growth. It isn't very simple. And it certainly isn't fair. The one place where it does excel is at redistributing income.”
The Taxpaying Minority
By ARI FLEISCHER
April 16, 2007 is available here. http://preview.tinyurl.com/3c2x2p
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If the terrorist admits knowing about an impending attack, and refuses to divulge the details, I'd be in support of breaking his balls for the info.
What do you think of Bush and Cheney refusing to testify under oath about 9/11? If they were found to have been complicit in the attacks, would you be in support of torturing them? -
Bush's own spokesman. I'm sure it's real objective. *rollseyes*
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It's the Economy Stupid.
BTW Waterboarding was used and approved by the Spanish Inquisition and Pol Pot.
Perhaps a clue to the more deluded that it might not be the mouthfreshening party trick that FOX News and Friends think it is ? -
we should hit Mecca during the hajj.....eye for a eye... it's all they seem to understand..
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Bush and Cheney have not even been accused of being “complicit in the attacks” and executive privilege rightfully exempts the executive from congressional inquiry in all but a few scenarios (such as if there IS evidence of a crime as in Bill Clintons case). This is also a good thing as the executive is not SUBJECT to the congress in most things- it is an independent branch of government. The same scenario applied to FDR when he OUTRIGHT REFUSED to give ANY information to Congress regarding his wiretapping techniques. Funny how the NY Times doesn’t mention that (Actually they probably don’t even know about it as they aren’t that bright) What also separates Bush and Cheney is that even if they were complicit they are US citizens and thus have Constitutional rights that enemy combatants don’t.(just like if you or I were complicit). If there were evidence Bush and Cheney were complicit, then they WOULD have to testify, and impeachment and criminal proceedings (including possibly treason) would be appropriate. Now all that said, I reiterate, though Clinton undeniably committed a crime in lying under oath (He should have refused to answer which was his right), I still say that impeaching him for that TYPE of perjury was idiotic and set a terrible precedent infringing on presidential independence for politics. I say this even though Newt Gingrich is probably the greatest and my most admired current conservative – his spearheading of the impeachment Clinton was dreadfully wrong and though congress was lesser without him the price he paid was necessary to hold others in the future from repeating this mistake.
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Shut the fuck up you ignorant shitbag. Grown ups are talking. Know your place.
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What do you think of Bush and Cheney refusing to testify under oath about 9/11? If they were found to have been complicit in the attacks, would you be in support of torturing them?
NO, but jailing them is a good place to start.....since it seems highly unlikely they will be impeached, however they still could be (and should be) tried for War crimes... -
so what went wrong in the last 8 yrs? - businesses were put first, by and large - and yet here we are - youre the economist, explain what went wrong - youre a fucking book keeper for "an aspect of a business" - ? - and youve worked as one for others - your job and trade seem protected no matter how much the republicans fuck us over - good for you - beacon of truth - as filtered through "the man"
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Fact of the matter is this. The reason people who are more financially secure is they know how to hold onto their money. If you placed everything in a vacuum and gave everyone the same financial where with all and property to 100 people and locked the vacuum for a year. If you came back a year later it has been proven that people who had more money before would have earned the money back and the people who had less would have less again because it is a combination of tenacity, hard work, smart decisions and an ability to save a person's money and not spend it on frivolous items that separates man. Simple fact.
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Blackwater, Fox News, Dick Cheney, Carl Rove, Haliburton, Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Evil Christians.
Just wanted to help you complete your brilliant arguments. -
his approval rating is still higher than the democratic party controlled congress. What does that tell us? It tells us that both the Dims and the Repubs are corrupt and useless to America. We need a reboot and preferably one that doesn't involve partisan assholes that call the opposition stupid just because they believe in something different. Yes, I'm talking to you liberal AND republican assholes in this talkback.
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Sep 13, 2008 9:39:27 PM CDT
Even Greenspan says McCain-economics will bankrupt the country
by whytee
His top economic adviser is the senator-turned-lobbyist who created the mortgage crisis on behalf of his buddies at the French superbank UBS. Look up Phil Gramm and the Glass-Stegal act.
Oh, and his top foreign policy adviser is on the payroll of foreign countries including Georgia.
You want to stand in breadlines in the next four years, while your leaders rob the middle class blind while changing the laws to benefit big business and the superrich, vote McCain. You want to make the government work again and bring integrity back to the White House, vote Obama. -
Sep 13, 2008 9:39:43 PM CDT
The problem with wealth distribution is a matter of virtue.
by efxmaster
Who is to say that inequality is bad? That is the rub. What is there that says that some people having more than others is bad?
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But my question was, simply, if Bush and Cheney were complicit, would you be in support of waterboarding them?
Also, Bush had declared at least two American citizens as enemy combatants under Presidential order. So if Bush and Cheney were complicit, they could be deemed enemy combatants. -
Sep 13, 2008 9:41:49 PM CDT
Hey vezners, Dems don't have a veto-proof majority in congress
by whytee
They have torpedoed almost all democratic-led legislation. Your talking point is just another republican tactic to frame democrats. Just this week the democrats finally shamed them into voting for an infrastructure bill that Bush initially said he'd veto.
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McCain used it to attack Giulliani when Giulliani was the frontrunner in the primaries - "All I can say is that it was used in the Spanish Inquisition, it was used in Pol Pot's genocide in Cambodia, and there are reports that it is being used against Buddhist monks today,” McCain told The New York Times in an interview.
Clearly this was before he became a "Maverick" and changed his mind to lockstep into other Republican policies like the Bush Tax cuts for the wealthy.
Just wanted to help you realise that your brilliant evasion, fleeing and scurrying away from the facts is even more laughable when the source of the facts were McCain.
No, no don't mention it. Only too glad to help. -
face it, liar to thyself - bush and cheney and friends dropped the ball - they let us get attacked on 9/11 2001 - they had more than fair warning an evidence that a threat was there and an attack was coming - it was literally spelled out for them - a memo that got misplaced - ? - they wanted it to happen - cheney said as much when a member of a neo con think tank in favor of republican control of all 3 branches of govt - specifically, unchecked and complete control from the executive branch - they needed a "pearl harbor type of event to rally the pop." once the office was one - they got it on 9/11 - and we are no safer now - plus we are stuck in a war costing us 10 mil a day and up - and the real bad guys are still out there - regrouping for 9/11 part 2 - youre a smart guy, obviously - but you kill any argument you might have with comments like "...the first black guy that doesnt talk like a moron"
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Since you apparently just read the headline Greenspan continued to say that we could not afford the tax cuts unless the congress reduced their spending. If congress cut their spending (Granted not something traditionally associated with democratic reform) it would not make sense.
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Lets not forget that the USS Cole was attacked by Bin Laden back under Clinton and he did nothing about it. They knew where Osama was and didn't take him out.
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but the Dims were doing the same damned thing to the republicans when they held the majority in congress and their approval ratings were never even close to as low as what we are seeing now. Deny it all you want, but your liberal friends in congress suck at their jobs and the public knows it. And if you think I'm some Republican tool, you have less brain cells than I feared because as I said before, the republicans are JUST as useless as the democrats. However I think it's safe to say that liberals like you are probably the most frightening thing we have in the world today besides Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. You people thrive on hating the other side. Well guess what, I hate both sides but I particularly hate your side.
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he attempted to go after him - there was a plan - the republican congress stopped it - they were more concerned with "blow-job-gate" - just like they tied his hands when he went after adid
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That is all.
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but "there sisde" is responsible for the threat that has become Russia, Iran, and Venezuela - "there side" has fucked us all by getting this snowball rolling 8 yrs ago - where were you?
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Oh God, I just got a serious case of indigestion.
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-Jimmy joe Red, I don’t like talking about myself because its not pertinent to the debate (and you dodged my points to boot), but in this case I’ll make an exception as I am tired of this ridiculous assumption that I am some care free guy who made it and has no worries I have been laid off, I have almost been laid off, I have had to changed a career to move my salary and open opportunities that had closed in what I was doing…so screw your assumptions. Difference between you and I is that I didn’t blame anyone else for my challenges and I was thankful that I was able to move my skills to a career that had numerous jobs and improved where I was because of it…and I further understand that some leftist driving business away while saying he’s looking out for me is actually a moron who screws me over by discouraging business from staying in my area- what I did was choose a new career that is more insulated form idiotic leftists as it is needed and needed where I am. Without business I’m about as well off as all those people who grew up in Detroit, so thanks leftists, but they can take their anti business policies someplace else as far as I’m concerned.
The last 8 years are terrible how? We have had the lowest unemployment rates in 40 years (better than under Clinton even with the recent “bad number” being better than most of the Clinton years), we have had incredible growth in most Bush years outside 2001 and some normal dips. The main areas we have problems are energy (which is another story), the loss of blue collar and Manufacturing jobs- which has been a problem for decades and will CERTAINLY not be helped by Obama raising tax rates and strengthening Unions when corporations can get minimum wage workers (or less) in under developed countries, and by Illegals driving down wages in industries like Poultry where wages have dropped drastically as immigration rules are not enforced (that IS Bush’s fault but Obama won’t help that either). Our Economy DOES need to try and get manufacturing back-unfortunately neither Mc-lame nor Obama have a clue in this area- so we’re all kinda screwed.
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Lots of tactics were used in the scenarios you speak of- so what that makes them all bad is that actually your argument? Some of the tactis we still use in regular police work today-guess thats all bad cause Pot used them. Ie. You have no point.
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if we wiped out all terrorist groups and cells tomorrow - theyd grow back in a few months time if not sooner - the "war on terror" cannot be faught or won the way our govt has been doing so
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Do you honestly think the Republicans are responsible for the threat of Russia, Iran, and Venezuela? Do you honestly think that ANYONE from the USA has ANY control over the insane policies that these three nations make? Dude, that's like blaming Canada for Hitler being an asshole. Why don't you pull your partisan head out of your ass and call a spade a spade. It's the communist/dictatorship governments in those nations that are the danger, not some dumbass in our white house. Seriously, do you think Roosevelt was the cause of Stalin's aggressions post WWII? Was it Truman's fault for the communist takeover in China? Was it the USA's fault for the cold war? Did Kennedy force the north Vietnamese to commit horrible acts of terror against the south? By God I have a radical idea! How about we blame Stalin and the other aggressors I mentioned? Or, OMG hold on to your chair here dude, how about we blame president "however the hell you say his name" in Iran, Chavez in Venezuela, and Putin/whoever his new puppet replacement in Russia for the things they do? Or is that just not anti-american enough for you? God, what does an aneurysm feel like?
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you are a brain washed tool for the man - things havent been this fucked up for us in a long time - and youre ok with it - millions more are not - the republican party and conservative govt appeals to you with their black and white cut and dry simplistic view of "right and wrong - good and evil" - its a nice tight small package - no gray area - eay to buy and sell - like their constituents
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But Bush did authorize an attempted coup against him, and he is democratically elected.
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But Georgia did attack the South Ossetians first, putting the Russian peacekeepers at risk in the region. Israel launched a full scale war on Lebanon only 2 years ago - and that was over a couple of missing soldiers.
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"deomcratically elected", eh? So was Saddam. As I recall he got 100% of the vote. I'm sure it was TOTALLY legit as I'm sure Chavez's election was. ;)
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Sep 13, 2008 10:11:08 PM CDT
AND HOW IS THE RUSSIA-GEORGIA CONFLICT AN ANTI-AMERICAN THING?
by bringingsexyback
Has nothing to do with America, except Saakashvili overplaying his hand and now asking the world to bail his ass out.
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so what's your point? Was it all Bush's fault? I hear that Bush tempted Adam and Eve too. Man, that dude needs to be cast into outer darkness or something cuz he's gotta be the biggest troublemaker in history.
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...Cthulhu/Dagon '08.
With Cthulhu, you know what you'll be getting. With Dagon, you know all threats, er, all promises will be kept. -
It's a fucking joke, if you look at it.
Fred Thompson? Actor. Arnold Schwarzenegger? Actor. Sonny Bono? Actor/Musician/Bad Skier. Sonny Landham? Actor/Fucking Racist. Clint Eastwood? Actor. Ronald Fucking Reagan? Actor.All actors and all republicans. Shit, Ben Stein was a speech writer an policy wonk before becoming an actor, but that didn't stop him from being accepted by the GOP did it?
Actors are people too, and have reached the highest positions in the land. And since The U.S. is a representative democracy, and these people can vote, they have every right to voice their opinion. The fact that the right tries to vilify them as 'liberal Hollywood elitists' just points out how hypocritical they are. -
oh wait, he's Canadian. DAMMIT!
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Sep 13, 2008 10:14:21 PM CDT
VEZ - BEFORE YOU TELL SOMEONE TO PULL THEIR PARTISAN HEAD
by bringingsexyback
out of their ass, try doing it yourself first. Chavez was democratically elected whether you choose to believe it or not. Comparing him to Saddam means you've got that proverbial partisan head up your own ass.
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yes - they werent a threat (at least not like now) 8 yrs ago - part of poitics is talking and dealing with those that disagree with us on all sorts of things - the current administartions foreign policy model is "if youre with us we will deal - if youre not, fuck off" - not very mature - thats how anti-american sentiment gets a boost - we cant control other nations decisions - and we are not meant to - but we can influence decisions - we can talk and deal and mke more things than just trade a priority - famine is a big one - bush and friends have managed to piss off everyone that already had a beef with us even more - our troop numbers are limited - we cant back up all this neo con tough talk - we cant fight everyone - why is alienating then fighting the preferred policy? - macho bull shit - we are no longer the super power we were - china india and russia laught at us now - america sold too much of itself off and whats left still thinks it can kick the worlds ass - it cant - especially not without a draft
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OMG, did you just say that actors have reached the highest positions in the land? God, we're fucked.
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If I said Bush was a shithead you'd say was being partisan against the libs because I didn't say he was a "fuckin shithead." You libs are tough to please.
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You just lack a good counter-point.
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>>>
One of these was found on a foreign battlefield. I am not sure of the other. I am sure neither were waterboarded or the NY times would have written about 130 front page articles on it by now (like they did on the underwear scandal).
You do raise a more legitimate point here however- can Bush hold a Citizen as an enemy combatant without official charges. I believe he did this under the Patriot Act. (Correct me if I am wrong- I am not positive).
Using the Patriot Act which was approved by Congress CERTAINLY gives Bush the argument that he can do it. However, even if holding US Citizens is SPECIFICALLY APPROVED under the Patriot Act, I say that Bush is exceeding his authority as this is unconstitutional and Congress had no right to write (or Bush to sign into law) such a provision without a Constitutional Amendment. To be clear, the war powers privilege CLEARLY DOES give the president the power to suspend habeas corpus in some cases. As under Article I, Section 9, of the Cojstitution which states "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."
But I don’t think that low level US soldiers acting as enemies on the battlefield meet this standard. It may be treason- but habeas corpus should still apply. Long story short it is unconstitutional for Bush to hold American Citizens as enemy combatants in these cases. That said left wing courts do FAR FAR more to overtly act unconstitutionally on a nearly daily basis (As did Mccain and the Democrats when they used a filibuster to over-ride the presidents CONSTITUTIONAL right to select Judicial Nominees) - and all these acts Bush, Judges, and the courts) are completely unacceptable.
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I'd buy you a Heineken.
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Please please please go do some reading because if you think our foreign policy is simply "if you're not with us, you're against us" then you have been watching way too much damned Star Wars. And as far as talk goes, it can only take you so far but ultimately it's up to the leaders of those nations to make policy, not our president. And need I remind you that each of those countries has been aggressive against other nations, not just the USA. Ah fuck it, you're right...It's Bush's fault. Yeah, that makes life so much easier to explain. You libs may be on to something. Course, if Obama gets elected you're screwed because you won't have anyone to blame other than your messiah. Seriously, this partisan shit is lame. McCain sucks. Obama sucks. Who's left? Maybe I'll do a write in for George Washington.
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That says, I have no confidence in any of the above parties.
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judging from the number of blind republicans in here (a supposed left-leaning movie fan site), we are fucked - america is a big place - it seems all the "thinkers" reside in a few major cities and the coasts - fr everyone of my liberal friends there appears to be 20 or more conservatives - we are out numbered - americans love fairytales - they like being lied to - the truth is painful and scary - hence, being a mom of 5 and a small town resident become important qualifications for running for office - we are screwed - this talkback has become a waste of time - no more fun arguing with people that believe the earth is 6000 yrs old and our species is the result of 2 horny naked teenagers
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Amen to that. Someone else around here gets it.
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Jose Padilla was the other enemy combatant. I'm tending to agree with the rest of your post. Sounds pretty reasonable to me - and that's all I ask people to be - reasonable.
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You're an idiot. That is all.
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Sorry Jimmy but you are an under-educated tool. I don't say that just to be a jerk....it really is true. Go spend a few years learning about economics, then come back and talk to me when you're ready. Now you sound like a kid just into college who has read too much Marx and far too little real world mathematics, economics and basic psychology.
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Whose idea was it that we actually give screen time to hollywood actors to voice their opinions like it is fact when in this line of life they are no more than ordinary people who aren't qualified to speak on political issues?
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You were saying Gorilla ?
Or rather you were trying to squirm out of it by claiming that there must be some good things that came from Pol Pot and the Spanish Inquisition. (sounds like you are dangerously close to trying justify both things) Though you'll have to refresh my memory as they don't immediately spring to mind despite your attempt to cloak them in Policybabble and Spin about "tactics" or "Policework".
It IS odd though, that absolutely NO-ONE sane or desperately Spinning would, upon hearing the words "Pol-Pot" or "Spanish Inquisition" automatically think "tactical and policework pioneers!"
Why is that do you think ? Perhaps they lacked sufficiently brazen spin-doctors and mouthpieces ?
For example do the NYPD use thumbscrews and boil people alive ? NO. They self-evidently do not, so stop wriggling.
They were used as torture by Pol Pot and the Spanish Inquisition. McCain said so as well as saying they WERE Torture. So when you try and claim I have no point you are really trying to say McCain has no point.
And McCain ALSO said this of Giulliani when he tried to justify waterboarding. His failure to call it torture reflected his inexperience. -
Bush is a shithead, just not for the reasons most of you libs cry about. He's a shithead because we still have an illegal immigration problem. He's a shithead because he makes great promises but rarely does anything about them (Social security reform, alternative fuels that will break our reliance on foreign oil, and education reform to name just a few). Bill Clinton was just as much a shithead and Bush is. The only difference is Bill could play the saxophone and new how to kiss the world's ass, like that did us a lot of good. When are you partisan libs going to admit that your party sucks as much as the repubs do? You won't because your head is still up your asses.
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I've said this before - I don't envy the next President, whoever it is. Cleaning up Bush's messes is a thankless job. Part of me hopes McCain wins just so the Dems don't have to be in a position to have to clean up the Reps' mess.
But that's unpatriotic. I do hope Obama wins. Why would you so confidently believe otherwise? Polls might have them in a dead heat, or even McCain in a slight lead, but it's not like he hasn't led before. He did in early August.
The debates will define this election, for the most part. And in that I have utter confidence in Obama and Biden. Palin gave a rousingly snarky speech but if she crumbled so easily under Charles Gibson's questioning, she will surely implode in the debate.
I just think it would be funny if she started speaking in tongues. Wouldn't that be a hoot! -
I think that America has taken the equality issue too far. America seems to be hung up on the concept that all men should be equal when it only says that all men are created equal. It does not state that regardless of time, talent, or perseverance that they will remain that way or that they should. I guess this is what we get when people get their news from reading headlines on yahoo and watching comedy central.
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Hey Sexyback- BUSH WAS A SHITHEAD
Will you biy me a Heineken? -
I think we should build the wall. We have 20 million-plus illegals in this country and that is a devastating blow to our sovereignty.
Education reform? Absolutely - we need to improve to not only stay competitive against the world, but we need an intelligent nation. (One that doesn't vote for a creationist, btw).
I don't think the Dems are AS bad as the Reps, but they have serious problems. I agree with you. Both parties need a good cleaning out with a focus on the welfare of the people.
The only thing we may disagree on is Social Security reform. If you're supporting privatization, count me out. No way should we hand over Social Security to a financial industry teetering on the edge of collapse. -
Wow, we are reaching across the aisle here. It feels good.
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I'm voting for mccain. Obama can't even run his campaign, why the hell would I want him running the country?
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can it really be that the hordes chanting for obama aren't old enough to remember clintons?
It was his disdain and contempt for military and intelligence that set up the situation we have all inherited.
The best thing you can say about obama is *thank god it isn't hilldawg*.
The last thing this country needs is the clintons expanding their portfolio at everyones expense -
TOO SOON!!!!
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bush, mccain, cheney and rice - and palin even - already drew a line in the sand with russia - can we afford more war? - diplomacy works better - less expensive - the cold war stayed cold for a reason
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A) I never said “good things come out of Pol Pot and the Spanish Inquisition. I said that not all things they did were evil. You are using a what is called a non sequitur in logical debate. Your conclusion is not at all connected to your premise. If Pol Pot jails people for murder- that doesn’t make jailing people for murder wrong, if Pol Pot uses a toilet that doesn’t make toilet use bad either. You actually have no point whatsoever here from a logical standpoint.
B) I have already said McCain is wrong on this and indeed on many things….I don’t use him as a barometer of truth on almost any topic. He has some of the dumbest opinions I have seen in a Republican in quite a few areas.
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Kerry had a big lead - he lost - the exit polls were all wrong there - 2nd time in history - 1st being 2000 - fuck republicans
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That’s right- Bush has a better argument for Padilla as the dirty bomb would to me meet the “public Safety may require it” clause for suspending habeas corpus. That’s the only type of scenario I could see it justified though.
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= blank cheque
Welcome to New Tax City
Where everyone but you will benefit -
Not the first nor certainly the last.
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Bush/Cheny/Rice seriously under-estimated Russian intentions in the caucasus. And a resurgent and wealthy Russia desperately wants to regain its traditional rule of the caucasus. We have neither capability, will or need to engage Russia in that part of the world.
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Haha I love it. I disagreew ith some of your comments in that last Vez response (that dems would do this better), but mostly it was really good. Also some privitization of SS would begood to increase the return rate. It would have to be spread out like a 401K over many funds (and not amenable to day trading) so it was secure though.
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Sep 13, 2008 11:04:11 PM CDT
There are so many inacuracies above, I'm not sure I can get them
by leftofcentristdotcom
... but I'll try.
Krigan, You mention Obama wanting to stop Future Combat Systems. What you didn't mention was the FACT that McCain wanted to dump it as well to cut back on Pentagon Spending. Here's a link to McCain's budget plan http://tinyurl.com/6ed7eb
900LBGorilla said the Democrats are slowly eroding the things that made America great. Was it the Democrats who decided the Bill of Rights no longer count? Was it the Democrats who ignored the 4th Amendment and started wiretaps without a warrant? Don't forget that Bush once said the Constitution was nothing but a "Goddamned piece of paper."
Also, anyone trying to claim Obama and Palin are equals have no idea what they're talking about. Obama was president of the Harvard Law Review, Palin went to five different universities before she could get a degree. Obama majored in majored in political science with a specialization in international relations. Palin lived next door to Russia. Obama has reached across the aisle and worked with Republican Sen. Richard Lugar to cut back on Russia's nuclear missile stockpile. Palin worked on cutting back the Alaskan State Police by a single person (and when she failed to accomplish that, she fired the Public Safety Commissioner).
We cannot continue borrowing money from China to keep our government afloat. Bush and McCain want to pass the debt on to future generations instead of taxing the wealthy. McCain claims Obama wants to tax the middle class. Obama says he will only raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year. Then again, in McCain's defense, he does think the middle class includes those making less than $5-million a year.
This election is a no-brainer for those who have been paying more attention to the facts instead of the sound bites, lies, and spin.
OBAMA/BIDEN '08!!! -
I am an Xpat. When someone told me there are signs for barack everywhere. In the airport in the mall everywhere where the "CHANGE" Machine is.
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Harry,
If you were sincere about people voting, you would have sent them to a non-partisan resource for registering to vote and not the Obama web site. This is part of an intiative by the Obama campaign to get new voters in because he is failling in the polls and the word on the street is that his campaign is in full meltdown mode. Why else would you put out a web ad mocking a POW's war injuries? Amateur night indeed. Time for David Plouffe, Obama's Campaign manager to step down.
My humble anaylisis is that this campaign was lost with 72 hours after the Palin anouncement. The attempt by the Democratic Party and their surrogates in the media to knock Palin out within 72 hours backfired. All it did was ignite a culture war in this country. -
Sep 13, 2008 11:11:05 PM CDT
McCain leads in Polls Obama leads in Electoral college
by toadkillerdog
Polls are meaningless this far out as for predicting winner. However, they are telling for trending information. Palin has injected enthusiasm into Republican base. Caught Dems totally by surprise. Still no coherent gameplan for her. Underestimating her debating skills would be foolish. She shines on TV. She is a ligtweight intellectually though, but that has not stopped Americans from voting for people in the past. Obama needs to focus on McCain though. Palin is a phenomenon that they can not really control. But McCain is the real target. The gloves must come off. Obama has tried to take high ground, but when enemy is tunneling under you, you had better change tactics.
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As an unfortunate resident of Michigan may I point out that the unemployment numbers are derived from the number of new applicants during a given period and don't reflect the people who got layed off or downsized and eventually got dropped off the unemployment rolls but never got back on their feet. The media never, and I mean NEVER accurately report the true employment picture in this country because people's hair would turn white if they knew. It's all part of the plan, create a massive military from all the folks who's prospects for decent employment have all dried up, and if you think the Dem's or Repub's can, or will, do anything about it may I direct you to a little trifle known as the national debt? Both sides bitch about runaway spending and fiscal responsibility but they still pass the pork like Texan's at a BBQ. When the dollar finally tanks to the extent it must they will usher in your NAU and a spanking new Amero and kiss my ass anyone who hollers "nutjob", it is coming and when it does people will APPLAUD.
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As an unfortunate resident of Michigan may I point out that the unemployment numbers are derived from the number of new applicants during a given period and don't reflect the people who got layed off or downsized and eventually got dropped off the unemployment rolls but never got back on their feet. The media never, and I mean NEVER accurately report the true employment picture in this country because people's hair would turn white if they knew. It's all part of the plan, create a massive military from all the folks who's prospects for decent employment have all dried up, and if you think the Dem's or Repub's can, or will, do anything about it may I direct you to a little trifle known as the national debt? Both sides bitch about runaway spending and fiscal responsibility but they still pass the pork like Texan's at a BBQ. When the dollar finally tanks to the extent it must they will usher in your NAU and a spanking new Amero and kiss my ass anyone who hollers "nutjob", it is coming and when it does people will APPLAUD.
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...without remembering that government is a three tiered system. To blame only one part when all three are fully to blame for the situation we're in is just half past ignorant. Yes, voting for president is highly important but make sure you research those in other positions that are also up for election.
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how much i HATE those stupid, smug animations that run in the upper-left corner? That guy gets off a bit too much on those things. Oh, and sorry about the double post.
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Toadkillerdog, is attacking a Vietnam Vet who got the shit kicked out daily for 5-1/2 years by the same communist thugs who support your candidate for not being able to type a keyboard because it is too painful because of the injuries he sustained higher ground? I think not! Or attacking a 5-month old infant with Down syndrone 'Change you can Believe In"?
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Wow talk about cluless
Was it the Democrats who ignored the 4th Amendment and started wiretaps without a warrant- Actually YES. This Precedent was set by Liberal hero FDR prior to our entry in WWII when he started wiretapping and OUTRIGHT REFUSED Congressional oversight. Though FDR and Bush did have this right under the war powers act. Bush was even more within his rights as the 4th amendment addresses your property- calls generated from overseas are not a persons property, and thus not covered.
You should also tell the left of silly .com site that their GREATEST HERO- FDR set the precedent in WWII of actually IMPRISONING US citizens without cause (well except that they were Japanese)
Maybe left of silly .com should also generate its outrage at leftist judges who rob the citizenry of the CORE TENANT of the ENTIRE DOCUMENT which states that we are GUARANTEED A REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT which is trampled on by leftist judges who legislate from the bench while being immune from our votes. Truly despicable from a constitutional standpoint and one of Jefferson’s greatest fears now come to pass. No one who has read the constitution should defend this abomination.
Or maybe left of silly .com.com should get outraged at the Dems in the Senate who broke the constitution by imposing a supermajority on the presidents constitutional RIGHT to select judicial nominees- they overrode the constitution with a SENATE RULE (the filibuster). Talk about outrage.
Go read my prior posts on economics only an economic simpleton would vote Obama on that count.
As for Palin Obama being equals your right they are not- Obama has never run anything, Palin has run a state and town. Obama has studied more foreign policy, but it seems to have dine no good as he changed his stance on both Georgia and Iran like 3 times over the course of a week (Hilary – who I am no fan of- made him look awfully green- as he is-hes been running for president more than actually working in the Senate).
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a clinton is still going to be trying to fuck your daughter
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Under Clinton, we had a surplus. Under Bush massive deficit. Under Reagan, massive deficit. Under Bush the first, deficit. We are in no danger whatsoever of having China collect on our debt. Same as in the 80's when Japan and Saudi Arabia held most of our debt. World financial markets are too interlocked to allow any 'collection' on debt to take place on such a massive scale. No 'Ameros' are in our future. Fannie and Freddie where saved, due in part to the Huge Chinese held debt in those entities that if they had been allowed to crumble, would have roiled the Chinese economy and had a ripple effect around the world. Where debt hurts Americans, is that it raises prices for goods and servcies, while lowering gov't spending on programs and infrastructure. Politicians know that they can always ship the debt into the future, because if the worlds greatest economy, and greatest consumer of goods and services, would ever really fail, it would take every industrialized economy with it. The Chinese included. That is the beauty of capitalism.
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Sep 13, 2008 11:33:44 PM CDT
"Not all things they did were evil" and you include Waterboardin
by g100
Is Waterboarding evil ? Since it was a commonly practiced Torture along with other many other Tortures used by the Spanish Inquisition and Pol Pot.
Because Waterboarding and Torture is what we are talking about. You know it I know it and anyone who isn't completely blind knows it.
Trying to claim the premise rests on the farcical fallacy that Pol Pot and the Spanish Inquisition were brought up because I, McCain anyone sane wouldn't connect them with torture is a Lie.
Only someone trying desperately to find excuses would bring up idiotic nonsense about "toilet use" or "imprisoning people for murder" when the subject is torture.
Talk about a complete non sequitur and complete blindness to common sense never mind logic.
Both are self-evidently used for their CLEAR and UNCONTESTED association with Torture. Period.
It simply doesn't matter that you are hopelessly trying to divert and change the discussion. Nobody believes that Waterboarding, Pol Pot or the Spanish Inquisition has anything to do with "toilet use" or "imprisoning people for murder". The only person deranged enough to believe that they are relevant to a discussion about Torture is you. You can Spin all you wish it just looks pathetic and evasive.
Waterboarding is self-evidently associated with Torture NOT "imprisoning people for Murder" or "Toilet use".
That some are trying to wriggle out of this with horseshit excuses about toilet use and police procedure merely proves a complete lack of integrity and an inherent inability to face the facts. To claim otherwise is absurd and somewhat staggering in it's ineptitude.
As for disagreeing with McCain, that is your right. But I am willing to bet he knows a great deal more about the subject than you or 99% of Republicans. -
if it garners a vote
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im not bothering.... mccain is going to win by a landslide. i think the only chance obama had was by picking hillary as his running mate....picking the old white loose lipped dude is boring to most americans cuz u basically know who has the most experience and its not obama, so u know who will be making most of the decisions behind the scenes....mccain actually surprised me by picking a woman, an inexperienced one , but a woman none the less...i was surprised ,but not impressed enuf to care... what kind of a republican thats so moral and god fearing have a daughter that cant keep her legs closed long enuf to grow tits....but YES mccain will win , because as much as some of us like telling ourselves we live in a free and equal society....plain hard truth is that this country is no where near electing a black man to the presidency..hate to say it , but its true. especially the majority of voters that actually re-elected george bush 4 yrs ago...i keep sayin it ...GO HILLARY IN 2012 !!!!!
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blah, blah, blah
Why wasn't Hillary tested for GSR the moment Vince Foster was discovered dead? -
>>.
Under Clinton we had a deficit until the Conservative republican Congress FORCED THROUGH a balanced budget which Clinton signed because his party just lost the largest landslide in US history (Civil war excluded) and he wanted to get re-elected.. This was part of the “Contract with America” written by the new conservative congress- maybe you’ve read it? Guess not.
Under Reagan we had a deficit, but it was not as large as in much of the past in comparison to the economy (like most figures such as movie grosses these numbers are given without relating inflation or size of the economy and is thus which is utterly meaningless unless 1dollar in 1987 is with the same as a dollar in 1937-and I think anyone out of second grade knows it isn’t even close)
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I see you guys are fighting the good fight!
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****Under Clinton, we had a surplus. Under Bush massive deficit. Under Reagan, massive deficit. Under Bush the first, deficit***.
Under Clinton we had a deficit until the Conservative republican Congress FORCED THROUGH a balanced budget which Clinton signed because his party just lost the largest landslide in US history (Civil war excluded) and he wanted to get re-elected.. This was part of the “Contract with America” written by the new conservative congress- maybe you’ve read it? Guess not.
Under Reagan we had a deficit, but it was not as large as in much of the past in comparison to the economy (like most figures such as movie grosses these numbers are given without relating inflation or size of the economy and is thus which is utterly meaningless unless 1dollar in 1987 is with the same as a dollar in 1937-and I think anyone out of second grade knows it isn’t even close)
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ou do realize that hilldawg would part you out and sell your organs for 10 seconds of a commercial?
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Maybe you missed all my prior posts. I contend Waterboarding is not torture. Go read why….then get back to me.
M
As for the rest your argument IS based on a non-sequitur- sorry. If you want to debate tell me why I am wrong based on my prior posts- I’m not going to retype or double post them.
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Sep 13, 2008 11:47:21 PM CDT
Everything that is wrong with the country is all becasue of Bush
by tacoloft
Pretty retarded statement isn't it? But alas this is what most Obama and some McCain supporters are saying. Personally I think that the economy is bad because of bad business decisions being made like outsourcing overseas, signing over loans to people who should not qualify, and the mass irresponsibility of people going into debt en-masse. I mean when did it become necessary for a person to have a cell phone, the escalade, the huge house, the entertainment system and all of the furniture to fill it right off the get go? I built up those things over time. Over time our society has "trained" the masses into loans, credit cards, ect... because "you got to have it now!" Keeping up with the Joneses is why the economy is bad due to bankruptcy and federal bailouts-- not entirely because of Bush (although he has spent federal taxpayer dollars like a drunken sailor and is bailing out Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae.) I would like to remind readers that the democrats have controlled the house and senate for the past couple of years now.
Is it the role of the government to save everyone? Is this what the majority of Americans think government is for? Once “we the people” realize that we are just being used through taxes to further the selfish careers of the majority of Politicians then maybe we can make steps for some real change. Obama bringing change is joke. Change can only come from the sweat of the people not a politician.
I want a flat tax on all goods purchased. That is all the taxing we should have. (This would solve the immigration drain on the economy as they have to buy stuff too!) I want small government and no-handouts as I believe that it is the responsibility of individual families, neighborhoods, and cities to be doing the handing out. (It’s called being responsible) The governments only role in my life should be to provide roads and physical protection from outside threats.
It is in the self serving governments interest to politicize any and all issues personal and private because then it can eventually own all issues. Socialism is bad, fascism (a form of socialism) is bad, a large governing Nanny State is bad. I think having a paid political body is bad. History has revealed at least those simple truths. If we think we are “different” and that history does not apply to us presently than we are truly ignorant of the facts.
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Clinton
Loosly translates as democrat -
Is probably right.
Cos most sane people realize is the only worst thimg than having a moron in office is having an inexperienced wanabe moron in office. -
I'm voting for Obama for a variety of reasons. I'm not saying that anyone who votes for McCain is an idiot, and I would really appreciate it if his supporters in this TB don't call me an idiot in return. I am supporting Obama because"
1) I cannot vote for a man who has supported the war in Iraq along with all of its major policy blunders in the past five years. McCain said that the war would be easy and wouldn't last long. He supported all of Bush's decisions on the war issue. This war was a colossal failure and anyone who had a hand in its execution does not deserve to be president. McCain has shown his judgment with his rhetoric that this is still a war to be won. What an immoral, severely misguided sentiment. Obama has talked about timetables for withdrawal (something the Iraqi leader agrees with)for two years and FINALLY the Republicans are starting to realize that the Iraqi government and military will not get their act together unless we show them that our time dealing with the chaos is nearing an end.
2) Face it, the US needs to restore its image abroad. The rest of the civilized world hates us and sees our leaders as war-mongering idiots. McCain will do NOTHING to fix this, as he is an even more hot-headed "war" president. "There's gonna be more wars, my friends. Let me tell you now, there's gonna be more wars." His words.
3) Bush's tax policy has crippled our economy (along with this never-ending money-sucker of a war of which McCain is all too happy letting the US pay 12 billion a month to continue). McCain has flip-flopped and shares the same policies as Bush. I'm not an economics expert, so I'm pretty much putting blind faith in Obama's new plan. I'm completely open to hearing the criticisms since I do not have a vast knowledge of how it all works. What I do know, however, is that our economy is shitty, McCain will keep us on the same trajectory we're on now, and the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Also, his chief economic adviser played a key part in the housing crisis and McCain himself has said the economy is not his strong suit. I'm trusting Obama, who is bringing things back closer to the way things were under Bill's rule (and the economy of the 90s looks pretty good right now, doesn't it?). We have the greatest disparity between rich and poor in the United States since the Great Depression and if you don't think that that has plays a major role in the failure of our economy, you are delusional. I also strongly support Obama's plan to punish corporations that ship jobs overseas and reward companies that keep things domestic.
3) Obama will do FAR MORE to spearhead projects to find alternative fuel and energy sources. McCain's chief campaign contributors are lobbyists for big oil. And sorry, but offshore drilling is a JOKE. I'm not trusting a man who puts forth a gimmick that all economists in this country hate and will not put a dent in gas prices for a decade (when foreign oil dependency will have already brought about even more disastrous effects than it already has). And to the people that think alternative fuels are a dead end: you are wrong if you do the research. Go rent "Who Killed the Electric Car." We have the technology and the one thing that keeps it out of reach is the tyrannical hand of big oil controlling this country, and I trust Obama to take on this task FAR more than McCain.
4) Obama's education plan is SPECTACULAR. It's one of his major causes and will be pursued vigilantly in an Obama administration. McCain HAS no education plan.
5) I agree with him on social issues. I am pro-choice, pro gay rights, pro sex education, and pro separation of church and state. These issues really need to take a backseat to the war and the economy, but they're still important nonetheless, especially in contrast with the ass-backwards social agenda of the woman who (if McCain is elected) has a 1 in 4 chance of becoming president, which leads me to
6) Sarah Palin. She scares the living hell out of me. The one thing she has accomplished is allow me to look at McCain's views in a far more positive light in contrast with this right-wing nutcase whose justifications of experience are downright laughable. Then again, McCain DID make the choice to pick her (although I strongly believe the rumors that this was a campaign decision that McCain fought against; word is he wanted his pal Lieberman). The fact that McCain is old as hell and suffered through cancer multiple times makes his VP pick key, and handing the country over to this psycho keeps me up at night worrying for the future.
7) The president is a figurehead, and loathe to admit it, personality and charisma are ESSENTIAL. He is America's image, and after suffering 8 years with that dunce Bush, Obama's charm and eloquence are sexy as hell right now. Even his detractors must admit that he has the ability to tap into the idealism of America. The man can inspire, and that's something we need with so much anti-American sentiment going around. He has made politics cool again and is the DIRECT reason why so many young people are getting ultra-interested in the political process. Say what you will about his beliefs, but you must admit that this is a VERY good quality a nation's leader can have. I may disagree with Reagan's politics, but I will be the first to admit that his charisma was superb and healed American dissolution from the seventies.
8) I watched both the DNC and RNC with open minds (my dad is a smart man and is voting for McCain). I heard Obama lay out specifics and he spoke about every pressing matter we as a nation must confront. I heard McCain pander to the right wing, spin and/or ignore the reasons why our nation is in so much turmoil today, and propose NOT ONE credible plan to fix our country.
I actually have many more, but this is a brief overview of why I'm excited to vote in November. Now, I call myself a liberal and will probably be one for the rest of my life (definitely on social issues). But I'm not one of these partisans idiots that will make up my mind before hearing and pondering the issue. There are many instances throughout history that require conservative policies and values, and I'm sure that smart Republicans can explain their points on fiscal issues and convince me why their viewpoint is at best superior to the left and at the least a rational argument. But I will not sit back and watch our country continue in the downward trajectory of the past 8 years, and while I am positive McCain is a smarter man (and would be a generally better president) than Bush, the very fact that he still supports this war and has voted with Bush 90 percent of the time discredits him as a candidate. At another point in history McCain would probably be a fine president, but at this time we need a massive change and we just so happen to have an intelligent, charismatic, progressive, and inspiring person to accomplish it. I believe in Barack Obama.
Any thoughts or disagreements would be appreciated, as I believe there are smart people on both sides of the spectrum this time around. -
cos this topic *needs* the insight from the people who use their urine as talismans
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Bush may be a semi retarded redneck, but at least he’s not a card carrying Neo-Nazi. Citizens of the UK have actually elected several white supremacists to parliament in the past decade (British National Party). As bad as some republicans might be, they still pale in comparison to some of the elitists and psychopaths the UK has brought in to govern their country.
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I address economics and war in my earlier posts. Too much to start new with you- read them if you like. I think you are very wrong on many of these issues, but respect the amount of thought you seem to spend on the topics. Cheers to you on that count.
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How many of those new conservatives are still around? I know full well that Clinton could not have done it without congress. But Congress could not have done it without him either. It was an elction cycle, and he did want to get re-elected. He had to run against part of his own constituency to make it work. He had to buy into it and sell it. He had to cut spending and programs that liberals and even moderates had come to count on. Welfare reform was done under HIS administration. The get tough tactics that that angered some Dems had to be pushed through by him. Why is it, that credit can never be given where it is due? Why is it that Reagan and both Bushes could not achieve balanced budgets and leave office with a surplus? Reagan came into office riding on more momentum for change than any President in recent memory. But typical republican apologists like you dismiss his deficit, but give no credit to Clinton for his surplus. You can not have it both ways. No President can change the economy on his own. None. And Clinton benefitted from a very prosperous economic boom. But he KNEW how to take advantage of it and a Republican controlled congress. Every President runs for re-election - save LBJ, so do not try and play that card. Clinton knew what he was doing. He knew the risks and the rewards.
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appease the gods
We take both candidates and their running mates
Grind them into a paste
Mix them with mud and straw and use them for the foundation for something useful -
Call me an asshole all you want, I stick to my guns. After Dr. Paul fails to secure nomination at RNC, I removed "Ron Paul President" bumper sticker to replace with "VOTE NADER: Shock the system. Revive democracy" on the back of my vehicle. I ordered "NOBAMA" "McBama: Same crap, different pile" and "Don't blame me! I voted for Ron Paul" (I cast ballot for Paul in closed Republican primary on Super Tuesday). I don't like Obama's inconsistency (remember Kerry's flip flop?) and his stance on gun control. McCain/Palin's lies and smear tactics is nauseating but not surprising. I wrote the letter to Libertarian Party HQ to demand Bob Barr step down or get stripped of his nomination after spitting on Paul at a recent press conference on third party, and made good on my resigning my LP membership to change affiliation to Independent. I will be donating $50 to Nader campaign as soon as I pool it together. To be fair, I sent Obama $5.01 (my mea culpa regret but who cares), Paul $293 and Mike Gravel $11.11. I would prefer Mike Gravel for his patriotic courage taking on Obama, Hillary, etc to task at the debates but some think he's a loon and his campaign flopped as the result. Oh well, I like Mike. No way I'm voting for the "lesser" of two evils. The two-party Establishment duopoly must end, and Nader will make a significant impact. By the way, those who still blame Nader for Gore's loss to Bush in Florida - GFY, get over it. It gives Democratic Party a bad name by constant whining, and look what they did by consistent failure to hold Bush-Dick administration accountable through corruption and intentional negligence in putting bipartisanship and party above the Constitution and people's right to rule. Ron Paul and Mike Gravel gave America the choice and they rejected. Soon they will say "Caveat emptor" when they elect one of two Elitist bootlickers to fuck up American even more until economic collapse due to unsustainable costs of war, deficit, liabilities, shit US Dollar value and hyperinflation becomes reality. VOTE NADER
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You look at America today, you look at it under the previous regime, you decide when you liked it better and vote accordingly.Politics today isn't about mavericks or change. There is no individuality. Parties work in concert top to bottom. It's called being on message. The Republicans will not change with a new public face; the Democrats will not be significantly different than their last power period, merely 8 years ago. Believing 1 man can control the party is uneducated and simplistic - childish - today.Voting for McCain because you dislike Bush but believe McCain will be different is childish. Voting for Obama because you dislike Bush and his 8 years is as logical as the American system gets. If you like Bush and his 8 years, then voting for McCain is logical too. But that doesn't apply to many people now.I see a lot of Republicans who cannot defend the last 8 years but believe McCain will somehow change the entire policy and approach of his party and redeem Bush's mistakes. They believe in the myth of personality. That is childish.One of the great problems with American politics is the long term inflexibility of its voters - a small group by turnout. Many of those who vote devote little actual consideration to what they are voting for; they will vote for who their parents voted for, or their friends, or who they think they should given their social position. And they will do it their whole lives, it will become a tradition - I vote Republican, I vote Democrat. And thus radical changes over time in the party they believe they support, they forgive, ignore or rationalise/cognitive dissonate because the thought of voting for 'the other side' is so awful. It is so contrary an idea to the concept of democracy and yet it has such a hold in a nation that believes in it so much. If voters would just swallow their pride, tradition and what their daddy told them, and vote for the party with the best chance of fixing any problems, whether that follows a Republican or Democratic presidency and whether it is the same or the other party that is in the best shape, or not. Then politics in America would be a little better off.
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You know.
It was a fucking redneck who said to me:
*No matter what, if you got a chance, you do whatever you gotta do, to see that, that never happens again* -
You Know.
It was a Nazi who said to me: *of all the peanuts, I think Linus is my favorite* -
Are the reps and libs fighting? the whites fighting the blacks? ah yes, mission acomplished.
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*of all the peanuts, I think Linux* (and by proxy Linus) is my favorite*
Geek Laugh: ARK! ARK ARK ARK! SNORT! -
Yes the republics and democrats are fighting, the whites are fighting the blacks. Now only the Mexicans and the Chinese must fall before the age of the Koalas will begin.
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If you just know that McCain is white and Obama is black and have not been keeping up with politics. Have no idea what they stand for and are voting because one is white or one is black or based on hype. Your voting registration should be taken away. Because this is how Bush got in the White House. You motherfucking simpletons!!!
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Compare Clinton's 8 years to Bush's 8 years. On ALL major issues, McCain agrees with Bush, especially the war and the economy (he's now flip flopped on the Bush tax cuts). I mean, do you just think the last 8 years never happened? Would you want Bush back in office again for a third term? Because every stupid decision he made for 8 years had McCain's support (and if he didn't then he's flip flopped to agree with Bush now). How do you act like this is unimportant? Like I said earlier, madness is defined as doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
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It does seem that way, doesn't it? But I believe, that change, takes a generation or two, to really set in. For example. In the 60's, Barry Goldwater was all alone - among national politicians, in his conservative stance. Raegan did not break through until 1980. It took a generation of shifting voter mentality to usher in the 'Reagan revolution' - whatever that was. I lived through it, and still can not tell you what it was - other than the country tacking to the extreme right (even more than Reagan intended I believe.) But a personality cult surrounds Reagan, and his defenders embellish his legacy at every turn. A generational shift is occuring even now in the U.S - especially in the south. More and more white collar workers - educated, and younger, from northern states, are changing the voting dynamic. It may not be enough this election cycle to change the outcome, but change is coming - pun intended.
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clintons 8 years.
Cut funding
Later. Called on it.
Clinton: *We tried to hunt and neutralize Bin Ladin*
Launch a cruise missle. Call it a score.
Clinton: *Hey Baby, let me park may cigar in your hangar* -
The best way to register to vote is to check your Secretary of State's Website and follow those instructions. Why? I'm not saying that Harry's link is to one of these groups, but it is very common for groups that collect voter registrations to NOT turn in your registration card if they feel you will vote against the party they favor. If your state has same day registration this is merely an annoyance. If it doesn't, then you just got duped.
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Clinton- only President of the last four to leave our country with a surplus. Only Democrat of the four.
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was the most ineffectual president, evar.
We. Are. Here. Now. Because. Of. Him.
He kneecapped our ability to gather intelligence and respond in avenues outside of massive deployment. -
Ok, well I'm glad to discuss these things unemotionally with you. You seemed slightly irked by my predictions, but not pissed off too much. Well the consumer confidence is indeed low in the presence of a republican president. However, I remember that the economy was quite good until about a year and a half ago. I remember saying to my liberal friend the day after the 2006 elections when the democrats took senate majority, "well it was nice having a good economy while it lasted". Sure enough, the economy took a dive. Was it their fault as I predicted? I really am not sure. But it most certainly was no more sure that it was Bush's fault. I don't know all the things that the president could've done nor the things that the liberal senate could have dont to hurt this economy so much. But I certainly would never blame it only on him when he seemed to lead a strong economy for several years up to the arrival of a liberal senate majority. Let me point out that George Bush does not act like a fiscal conservative, he spends like a democrat, and I am not sure how conservative his tax plan is. And Dave you are right, I wish I could make a paragraph break here, but I can't:) Now when it comes to the rich people that are so precious to me, well in a way they are precious to me. Without someone to give me a job, I would have a much harder time making a living in this world. I do not particularly enjoy rich people living a far better life than they deserve, and indeed this is true of pretty much all wealthy people. But the fact seems to be that the less taxes they and coorperations pay, the more jobs that they make available in our economy. That pretty much sums up the basic philosophy of fiscal conservativism. Economy is king to a conservative. Let me ask, who do you think suffers the most during a bad economy? The rich, or the poor and middle class? The rich suffer a slight adjustment to their lifestyle, the middle class suffer major life changing adjustments and the poor depend on the economy as something that may determine whether or not they get to eat. It seems to me that liberals should care about the economy moreso than the conservatives since they claim to be the party that cares about the poor and even the middle class. But they don't care about the economy, they care about maintaining their posture as the party to go to when you are poor and need a life support system. The greatest fear of liberals is that people may pull themselves out of the muck, and become self reliant enough that they won't need a government that constantly is taking care of them. This is the very reason why democrats refuse to persue a program that will help the economy and move most people upwards. I saw proof of this in several different interviews and debates with Obama when he was questioned about his plan to increase capitol gains tax from 15% to 28% despite the proof that it would have a negative effect on the economy, his reaction demonstrated that he was not concerned with the economy, rather he felt it was more "fair". I don't care what is fair, I want everybodies lives to be improved, not a feeble attempt to slighlty hurt the rich while REALLY hurting the poor and middle class.
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Register to vote. Nothing's worse than a winer who complains about one candidate or the other on to find that he/she couldn't be bothered to leave the house to vote or post a ballot absentee. If you want to complain about it be a part of it first and foremost. My rant after listening to whiners who couldn't be bothered then bitch and moan about it all. Sad state when such a ridiculously low % votes nowadays.
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Wait what?
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Really what we need as a country is a true moderate who can knock some partisan heads together and hammer out a new foreign and economic policy that benefits the country and not a political party or special interest group. Unfortunately, we have been given the choice between a candidate who believes the last 8 years have been good for the country and a candidate who thinks the United States should apologize or be ashamed for who we are. We need a candidate who at the peril of his re-election tells the country, "It's time to make some sacrifices for the good of the country." It's time for a candidate to say, "What can you do to help rebuild places like New Orleans and Cedar Rapids?" It's time for a candidate to say, "Instead of supporting illegal immigrants and visiting students, let's support American citizens get a secondary education who will help our society and our economy." And the least popular, "When you turn 18 you owe your country two years of service. If you don't want to serve in the military fine, but you will be expected to help in the relief efforts in New Orleans, Galveston or any other area of the country affected by natural disaster. If you don't want to do that then you can spend your time on a road crew helping repair and build highways to maintain a strong infra-structure for the country." Unfortunately this won't happen as either a special interest group, right wing conservative or bleeding heart liberal would put a stop to it. The next four years are going to be tough and I don't think either candidate is up to the challenge, though I would be very grateful to have them prove me wrong.
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Really? I had nooooooo idea!
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Go baby, go!
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When I said there will be a lake of blood in Iraq if we pull out within two years, I don't think I was making too harsh of a statement. True enough, it won't look like a literal lake of blood, but hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis is certainly something that deserves such a provacative description. You know, I am seriously a cold hearted conservative, and yet I still care about the concept that there are hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people that are alive and well right now that will be dead in a couple of years if we pull out of Iraq too quickly. I am not sure why that concept doesn't bother liberals. If we stay, those people will survive, at least longer, perhaps and probably long enough that a solution to the sunni shia discord will be achieved that doesn't require such massive bloodshed and suffering. You said I made a lurid overstatement. Do you think I am wrong that so many lives will be lost? Or do you just think that "lake of blood" is too much of an exageration to describe the death of hundreds of thousands. Well we may very well see in a couple of years. If Obama wins, and he does pull out his troops as I am sure he will, pay attention to what happens in Iraq from that point, then ask yourself if you were on the right side when you wanted this to happen. Well it's not like a similar situation hasn't happened before- the same thing happened when we made a hasty retreat from Vietnam, the Khmer Rouge Genocide occured immediately after our retreat in 1975 and 2 million cambodians were murdered. I have seen Jane Fonda's reaction to this consequence, and she seems to not care at all. She was on the forefront urging a speedy withdrawl, and now history is repeating itself. If genocide such as this occurs in Iraq after we pull out, I wonder if the liberals who urged for the withdrawl will even care. I bet most will be as indignant as Jane Fonda.
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If you are sick of the name "Baghdad", and prefer "Maqtada al Sadr City", by all means, vote Obama '08.
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I'm being sincere here, because I'd really like to know the answer...Would you all really be happier if this country were more like Canada or France (and I truly mean no disrespect to our NATO allies!) Is that the ultimate goal?
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Is there not one among you who will answer my question about Palin?
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Beyond Americans 18 years and up? Really? You think 7 year old Swedes should vote in our election? You think Chuck Manson should be voting? And Kim Jong Il? You're pretty $%^#ed, Harry.
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You know, Harry, you’re “everybody should vote” thing is admirable and I know it’s the PC thing to say and all, but seriously, these last 8 years have really made me question that assertion. The trend in U.S. politics is not to vote for the person who is most qualified or most likely to do a good job, but rather for the person who the voters most identify with. It’s all about personality and who you would most like to hang with. That’s incredibly frightening but it’s the inevitable result of the Republican spin machine that for decades has pitted the family values of small town Christian America against the godless heathen liberal elites of the northeast. Anybody with a modicum of thoughtful intelligence or any demonstrable oratory mastery is seen as “not real”. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard some energetic Republican spout off about how they love Palin because she’s a working mother just like them. Look at McCain, the Republican base didn’t even like him until he chose Palin (an obviously empty-headed pretty face who can’t open her mouth without lying and who counts being able to see Russian from an island off Alaska and having her plane stop over in Ireland as foreign policy experience). But they love her because she’s a hockey mom! It’s incredible. Why these people think it’s a good idea to have an average person (average people are obviously fuck knobs) running the county rather than the best and the brightest is beyond me. Maybe we have too many (stupid) people voting???
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It was 14-15 years ago, from 1993-1994. That was when the Dems last controlled both houses of congress and the presidency. I was so successful that they lost both houses in 1994, for the first time in many decades. The last time prior to that was Carter's post-Nixon administration, widely viewed as a disaster in America. If you add Bush to the mix, the problem appears to occur when one party has power (Carter, early Clinton, late Bush) as they will drift further from the moderate track because they don't need to cooperate with the other side.
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Poison- Every Rose Has It's Thorn
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Sep 14, 2008 2:17:20 AM CDT
Hey Gorilla, instead of dwelling on the past ...
by leftofcentristdotcom
... why not answer my questions directly? This is the same way the neocons have conned their way into power. Don't look at what the right hand is doing, just gaze at the left hand. Are you saying Bush has stayed with the Constitution, or are you going back to FDR? yes, FDR ignored it - he was wrong to do it. John Adams ignored it - he was wrong to do it. Abe Lincoln ignored it - he was wrong to do it. Bush more than ignored it, I can list at least five out of the 10 Bill of Rights that Bush has decided were no longer relevant. You can go back to FDR as much as you like, but that still doesn't wipe the stink off that asshole Bush. And McCain has sided with "Dubya" 95% of the time. When McCain says "Change", I say, change your Depends you old Fart!
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I'd check your beliefs about Palin via FactCheck or Snopes. There's been some nasty misinformation spread over the last 2 weeks via the internet, akin to the Obama is a Muslim/Will not say the pledge crap. I enjoy a good political jab, even the occasional punch below the belt, but a lot of this stuff is outright fabrication and needs to be corrected, even if it helps the other team.
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at the Lake Creek location. You should come up and check it out.
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Trust me. It's not because she's a woman, it's not because she's young, "attractive", (shudder) or a hockey mom. It's not because she's folksy, or that she appeals to ignorant redneck racist/homophobe/creationists. It is because she's from Alaska, but not because that's 'close' to Russia. It's because of "Energy Independence". Come on, say it with me, everyone say it together: "Energy Independence". "Energy Independence". "Energy Independence". "Energy Independence"....
Of course, the actual amount of oil in ANWR has been estimated to yield enough actual oil to power every American's car for a single day, but who cares what the tree huggers say? Drill Now! Wildlife Preserves are for pussies! There's no such thing as global warming! Adam and Eve had dinosaurs for pets! San Francisco! Energy Independence! Energy Independence! Energy Independence! Ignorance is strength! War is Peace! Freedom is Slavery! Energy Independence! -
The Dems lost both houses of Congress in 1994 because Clinton enacted one of the largest tax hikes in history. Not a single Republican voted for the measure but it laid the groundwork for the strong economy and balanced budget that would come later in Clinton's term (the Repubs could never muster the numbers to overturn it). Of course, taxes is an easy thing to run on so the Democrats got killed for it but it was the right thing to do. That's the history of the Democratic party - doing what's right and paying the price for it. Much like the civil rights movement which to this day has cost them any chance to win in the south. It's sad really. Repubs always take the easy road - pandering. Lowering taxes without cutting any programs that would piss people off is sheer genius . . .
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Why? They have lots of kids and liberals don't. They are going to fuck their way to the top...
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Sad but true. That was theory behind the Catholic Church banning birth control so how fitting that it will now pave the way for the conservative ascendancy. Now if only McCain and Palin can commence with ushering in The Rapture.
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I read what you said about Sarah Palin. I've learned a lot about Sarah Palin since she came on the scene, and I knew right away that her popularity would cause the McCain ticket to overcome the Obama ticket in polling numbers, this would of course make Palin the mosted hated person in america, echoing a pattern of hatred that exists agaist all powerful conservative and christian figures. Indeed the hatred for Sarah inspired liberals to use a very effective tactic, pure lies. Within a day blogs were claiming that her down syndrome baby was not hers but her daughters, in an effort to embarrass her. Of course this was not true, but it kind of doesn't matter because the tellers of the lie are unnamed, and many people will never look into the details further, and they will discount her from that point further. A new lie; she tried to ban a huge list of books in 1996 as mayor of Wassilla. I looked into that when I first heard it, far more closely than most people did I am sure, and I found a supposed list of books that she had sought to ban. This list was in fact a copy and pasted list of books that have been banned at one time or another in the United States. Among the books which she supposedly sought to ban were several Harry Potter books, but the problem is that the first Harry Potter book was published in the United States in 1998, this apparent book banning was supposed to have taken place in 1996. Do you care? Well moving on, she is a creationist. You don't seem to understand much about religion if you find that so alarming- in fact all Christians are creationists- so are all Jewish practictioners. The belief in God and his creation of people is what religion is all about. Since you are apparently an atheist, I am aware that you don't believe in creationism, let me point out that I totally respect that viewpoint. But you don't seem to be aware that Christians do believe in creationism- I don't know how that is possible that you don't know that. Or is it that liberals like you hate her simply because she is a christian? Well that fits the pattern. Hatred towards Christians. Let no Christian enter the White House again. I take that to mean that you don't truly think Obama is a Christian, that he is just pretending to be one for political purposes- you may be right. As for her being a succesionist, I take it you are refering to the story that she was part of a group that sought for Alaska to secede from the USA. I have tried to look into that and have found nothing substantial to support that claim. My initial reaction when I first heard that story was that it sounded like something a liberal would want to do, not a conservative. Indeed, in every instance I have ever heard of someone wanting to secede from the country, it has been a liberal or even more extremely leftist. First it was when democrats wanted to secede in the 1860's because republicans wanted to ban slavery, There are tons of liberals in San Francisco that want 'Cisco to secede, then of course there are people like Louis Farakhan and Malik Zulu Shabazz who want to establish their own country. It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing Sarah Palin would want to do- she's conservative, remember? Perhaps you have found some pretty rock solid proof that she was part of such a group- if that is the case I find it very peculiar. Just don't accuse her please of all the things that you ever hear about her- remember that there is a large very very very powerful media dedicated to destroying her. Our media decides for us who should be president and who shouldn't, and then filter the information to us in a way that allows us to come to the same conclusions that they want us to have. I can see that you have been receiving your information just as they would have you get it. They are indeed very powerful, and they hate conservatives. Hatred is their theme. I for one am not hateful towards christians, so it is not so easy to manipulate my anger.
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1) Palin hasn't banned books per se, but she asked the librarian in Wasilla on at least two occasions how one would go about banning books.
2) She's married to a secessionist and has been present at Alaskan Independence Party meetings, despite being a registered Republican.
3) She says that one should teach both creationism and evolution in schools, but not as science and religion but as two scientific theories, thus undermining the difference. -
You've made a good point that lies about all the candidates are floating around all over the place. Anybody can say whatever they want on the internet. The problem is, the lies about Palin are originating from the unknown, nameless blogosphere while the lies about Obama are originating mostly from McCain and Palin's campaign. Those are not equal offenses.
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Another thing, Samus, if the media is liberal and they dedice who should be president, and they hate conservatives, why do conservatives keep winning elections?
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Patently untrue, Samus Aran. Only in America's most fundamentalist Christian sects and in fundamentalist Islam and and orthodox Judaism will you find creationists. Most Christians in the rest of the world have no trouble, none whatsoever, melding their christianity with a belief in evolution. My wife, a bio-chemist, considers herself a Christian and believes wholeheartedly in evotlution as well as God.
Furthermore, I am neither a liberal nor an atheist, which proves how fundamentally shallow and poor your deductive reasoning is. -
Tell me what lies are being said about Obama. Most of the negative things that I think about him are things that I have heard directly out of his own mouth. I honestly can't think of anything that I have heard about him that isn't directly related to obvious proof or things that have come right out of his mouth. If this is about the fact that he wouldnt put his hand over his heart, or the speculation that he is a muslim- believe me- those details hold no water for me. I am not going to worry if he is a muslim or not- I see no real direct proof on that, and that suggestion is not being pushed. If he doesnt put his hand over his heart during an anthem, I really don't worry about it- he may not have been thinking about that at the time. I only care about the facts which are clear, and there are MANY.
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well then perhaps I don't know what creationism means- I thought it means that god created man. Personally I believe that god may have created us with evolution as a tool for that creation. I think that I am still a creationist, even though I am comfortable merging the two concepts.
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How about that wants to teach comprehensive sex education to kindergarteners? That he plans on raising taxes on the middle-class? That his health plan would force people into a government run bureaucracy that would put a bureaucrat between a person and their doctor? All ads approved by McCain and all are patently untrue. Not just distortions or spin but flat out lies.
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Let's not stop with Obama either. McCain and Palin can't stop lying about themselves either - thanks but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere, Palin didn't request a single earmark as Governor, Palin sold the governor's plane on Ebay (for a profit), she fired the personal chef, blah blah blah blah. All lies. Her whole persona is a constructed image that bears little resemblance to the truth.
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Ok well first on the comprehensive sex education to kindergarteners, take a closer look at that video of him laughing about it- at first when I saw that video, I thought he and his audience were laughing because some rediculous lie had been made about him- and I thought, oh somebody told some stupid lie about him- then he ends it with "but it's the right thing to do". I was then completely confused- What? so one minute you are laughing about some lie that had been said about you that said that you wanted to teach sex education to kindergarteners, next you are saying it is the right thing to do- then I realized- the only explanation was that they weren't laughing about a lie that had been said- they were laughing that the concept of teaching sex education to kindergarteners was wrong. Based on that video- with him saying "it's the right thing to do" I think he does want to teach the sex education to kindergarteners- and guess what- I really don't care too much- even in light of the fact that my 3 year old daughter is soon going to be a kindergartener- I'm just pointing out that it doesnt seem to be a lie- where am I wrong here? OK the concept that he is planning to raise taxes on the middle class- I have heard that recently, and it was presented by Dick Morris I believe in which he had apparently done the math and found that Obama would have to raise the tax on the middle class in order to fund his proposed programs. I certainly care about that since I am in the higher middle class, but I don't know if that is true one way or another just yet, and so I am not putting much weight to that claim. Finally you said that negative claims have been made against his health plan, let me tell you- I am a conservative, who does not trust Obama hardly at all- I think he is not going to look out for me, but his health plan may be enough for me to actually vote for him. I want his health plan, and I want it now. I think it is the best thing for most everybody, though I could be wrong. However, lies that may have been said about such health plans, are not actually lies about Obama, they may just be arguments against policy. But let me tell you, if Obama could seriously make that health plan a reality, and not just something like Hillary was trying to make and failed at- I am on the fence between Obama and McCain- we need that plan bad.
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sexiest tomboy beanpole on the planet
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-- we will at least get the country we deserve. Blather all you want, just fecking vote.
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It is a lie that Sarah Palin sold that jet? Are you freaking kidding me? And she changed her mind on the bridge to nowhere, big deal. The story as I understand it goes like this, She seemed to want to help build a bridge in her campaign for Governer, when she got into office she decided not to build the bridge- end of story. Based on that, you are scared of her becoming president some day? Is there some detail that I am missing? I seriously would like to know, perhaps you can tip me i the direction of Obama, but I want to hear something pretty evil on her part, not just changing her mind on whether or not to build a bridge. That's not a flip flop. A flip flop is quickly changing your mind on a fundamental value based purely on polling numbers. Whether or not to build a bridge is not a fundamental value. I changed my mind on whether or not to put carpeting in my house or not once, did I flip flop? I chose carpeting after all- cruicify me.
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If these are ALL or most of the lies that have been made against Obama in the two years he has been campaigning- then I have to say that McCain and the republicans have been running a pretty squeeky clean campaign. I think I debunked most of your assertians. Look at the lies that have been said about Palin in two weeks- Nasty nasty stuff- and they are indeed lies. I wouldn't be proud if republicans had been as vicious- I'd have to lower my head and admit to the creepiness of it all.
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The bill Obama supported was one designed to protect children from sexual predators. That's the bill he was defending as the right thing to do. No, McCain didn’t invent the bill, but he did so mischaracterize its purpose that the ad still qualifies as a complete lie. As for his tax plan, he claims he won’t raise taxes on 95% of Americans (obviously that number depends on being able to fund his budget through effective cost cutting measures which can be extremely subjective). Non partisan, independent analysis estimated that the number might be closer to 80% (that is 20% might have a tax increase) but it’s still nowhere near the majority of the middle class that McCain is claiming. It’s 5% to 20%. McCain is lying but it’s a powerful argument. In a recent poll, 53% of respondents thought Obama would raise their taxes and nothing effects an electorate like money.
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Well perhaps that video of obama was putting his words out of context- it was a very short video, and I thought that it may be out of context- don't worry- that video did not affect me much at all anyway. Well if the top 20% will be getting a tax hike, then that doesn't seem to be a lie about Obama. It doesn't exactly make Obama a lier either- if he honestly thinks he can lower the taxes on 95% of americans. However, it does suggest that he hasn't really figured out what he is going to be doing when he gets into office.
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Ok, Samus, here’s the story. Palin supported the bridge to nowhere during her campaign. She didn’t stop supporting the bridge until it became a national scandal and Congress de-authorized the funds. She then kept all the money that had been allocated for the bridge and used it on other projects (including continuing to build a road to a nonexistent bridge to avoid having to return the unused funds to the Federal Government). She did not sell the plane on Ebay and certainly not for a profit. It was placed on Ebay, never sold, taken down and then sold to a wealthy backer of her campaign for a $7 million loss. As for firing the chef . . . no, she simply changed the person’s job title and had them continue to cooking for her family. How about her charging the state of Alaska a per diem for days she spend in her own home ($17,000+ worth). Again, none of this evil. I’m not claiming that Palin is the devil or that I hate her. What I am saying is that she is a liar. And these aren’t trivial issues. The entire campaign is based around the fact that she is a corruption fighting crusader against government waste when the facts show that she was anything but. That should give anybody supporting her pause. I also think it’s relevant when every stump speech is littered with these types of lies. If the best examples they can come up to illustrate Palin’s positions are so easily debunked, why should we be supporting her at all?
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Indebted to your wisdom and have now purchased necessary books to enlighten my poor English education. Thanks for the tip, I thought Churchill was just an English insurance company. May God have mercy on the souls of your feet. Sorry for mocking Sarah Palin and refering her as a child of satan. She of course isn't, as the devil doesn't really exist. Found that out after reading one of the new books I purchased. Again thanks. And the Neo-con's scheme of getting us all back to a cold war stand off is of course a very good idea - so you're right to frown upon a weak minded Englishman's ill-judged ramblings about the continued escalation with Russia (aparantly they used to be in a band called the USSR or somthing, according to another of these book things I picked up). Anyway godspeed my American cousin and feel safe in the knowledge that we godfearing English will no longer worry when your rebublican friends guiding us ever closer to nuclear conflict. Oh and if you detect any sarcasm in anything above, then forgive me, I am English and we have penchant for things like that.
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Furthermore, I think that the top 20% of americans cuts pretty deaply into the middle class- as far as I know- My household may be within the top 20%. In which case I would experience a tax hike. That doesn't sit too well with me, since I am a typical person in my income bracket. My wife and I make a fair amount, and we pay a huge amount. What we keep after all is paid for are savings that we desperately need. We can't afford to fool around with our money, we are ussually stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I myself have spent the last 8 or 9 years consistantly worrying about money, despite that I have been making a fair amount. The idea that someone who makes a lot of money, has to constantly worry and worry and worry about money is a concept that I don't believe Barack Obama is in touch with, nor cares about. But I could be wrong- I also don't believe that McCain cares about my situation any more, but at least fiscal conservativism is a healthier aproach to the economy for me. Also I am convinced that Sarah Palin understands EXACTLY what life is like for me and most americans, and she would see to it that our lives our easier. I know, who cares about making the lives easier for people who don't have to worry about being able to afford food or medicine? I vote for who will make my life easier- if someone can convince me that is Obama- then I vote for Obama. I then don't care if his pastor thinks white america is pure evil.
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Sep 14, 2008 3:47:40 AM CDT
I love the way reps always say, will just drop the bomb on them!
by orionsangels
As if dropping a nuclear bomb on a city is nothing. It would effective the planets climate, not to mention the radioactive fallout and clouds that could blow our way.
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The middle-class is typically defined as the 60% of Americans below the top 20% and above the bottom 20%. If Obama's tax plan calls for raising taxes on the top 5%, and even the most conservative analysis of that plan says it could be 20%, then saying he will raise taxes on the "majority of the middle-class" as McCain has repeatedly stated is a flat out lie. Also, these aren't all the lies that have been told about Obama for the past 2 years. This is what has come out of the McCain campaign in the past week so it's fresh in my mind. Also, I admit there are lots of untrue things being said about Palin (I don't believe are care about any of them). They are not however, being said by Obama. What I do care about is the constant stream of lies being told by McCain and Palin (whether it's lying to slander or Obama or falsely representing themselves).
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http://preview.tinyurl.com/5lk5lp Wish people would get over the idea that they're electing her and not McCain, but if they have to, they need to know who she really is.
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Isn't that what the Boston Tea Party was about? How come US legal residents get taxed even though they can't vote unless they become citizens?
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McCain is worth $150 million and couldn’t tell a reporter how many houses he owns (seven for the record). He grew up as the son and grandson of two Navy Admirals, was handed his admission to West Point where he promptly graduated near the bottom of his class, married a swimsuit model, went to war, came home to find that said swimsuit model had gotten in an horrific accident, and then proceeded to begin having an affair with Cindy (18 years his junior and heiress to a beer distribution empire) while his wife was still recovering in the hospital. Meanwhile, Obama grew up as a the poor soon of a single mother, put himself through Harvard, and got involved in politics in the hope of helping his desperately poor community on the south side of Chicago. His small fortune comes from the royalties on two books he has written. Who do you think is more in touch with the plight of Middle America? Perhaps Palin is, I don’t know, but you’re voting for McCain as President, not Palin. And for the record, Joe Biden’s net worth is about $150,000 and he is the poorest member of the Senate.
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I read what you listed about Sarah Palin. If this stuff is true, I'll learn more about it- no doubt it will become major points made in the media if it is true. Then I am saddened to hear these. Indeed I have been excited by the concept that she is a crusader against corruption, because corruption in Washington seems to me to be a poison that harms our lives- noticably perhaps if we could only see how our lives would be without corruption in Washington. The mere concept that she may clear Washington of at least some of that poison is refreshing and energizing to me. I seriously hope that your facts are at least wrong. If she is the person she claims to be- she may really help our lives get better, not that we are all living in hell, but I would like life to be better.
As for why she would keep the funds from the bridge, why exactly is it wrong to use the funds on different projects? If it was wrong, it seems to me that whomever gave her the money in the first place would certainly force her to give it back- since they seem not to have, I don't think it was something that they saw as wrong. Why exactly would she continue to build a useless road purely so that she wouldn't have to give the money back? I don't understand how that would bennefit her or her agenda. Why is it wrong that she didnt sell the airplane for a proffit? If one governor buys an airplane, and then the next governor sells it, I am certain that it was sold for less than it was originally purchased. Planes are like cars- they go down in value, not up. Why would that suprise you? Perhaps she sold it way too much under value to her backer? Well why didn't it sell on Ebay then? How much was she trying to sell it for on Ebay, and how much did she end up selling it for? Unless those prices are extremely different, I don't see the problem here. As for not firing the chef, I was only vaguely aware of that chef story in the first place. So the problem is that she didn't fire him? Why fire a poor chef? If she changed his position from being a personal chef for something more appropriate, then good for her. I'm sure that job change still was using his talents as a chef anyways, just in a more appropriate position within the government. What are the details of him still making meals for her family? Did he do it out of friendship? Perhaps he was grateful that she didn't fire him? I can imagine that he may have, or something like that, and people who want to make her look bad have exagerated some details and ommited details to make the story fit what they want to tell. The point is that none of these stories are so clear that I know she did wrong, or that she lied about her record. When it comes to the firing of her ex brother in law, most people only describe her involvement as a grudge firing for a messy divorce he had with her sister- they ALWAYS leave out the fact that this brother in law trooper used his tazer on his 10 year old son. I am not sure I know all the details of this situation, but it seems to me that someone tazering his kid with a tazer from work is not fit to be working there, and that is the conclusion she came to as well. Her story goes that she fired a lot of people as she took the governors office from a corrupt politician. And the only person she didnt actually fire was a chef- somehow I doubt that chef had it coming to him anyway, but the other people being fired may very well have deserved it. -
and that retarded Alaskan Hillbilly bitch. I am tired of the world laughing at us. WTF!! U mofos really want more of the same old shit. I am tired of the bloodshed. Iraq doesn't need a babysitter. We did our job and got rid of a tyrant but let them be them. Imagine if another country came in to try to tell us how to think and live. We'd be pretty pissed off. Go get the real assassin Bin ladin ... Whre the fuck is he? Did Georgie forget about him? Imagine if McBush wins and dies after taking a shit because he is so fragile, we are stuck with a cunt for president. A fucking hillbilly bitch from Alaska... A L A S K A??? It's like they don't even belong in the states. She's the fucking new commodity of the news and that just might make McBush win. FUCK, I AM TRULY SCARED! No joke!
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I know, McCain does not have a heartwarming story exactly. His POW story means something to me, but the rest is pretty stupid stuff just like you say, except Cindy seems like a real humanitarian. Obama does indeed have a better story overall. He seems to have a good family. I don't think that he and his wife truly love and appreciate america as it is, and as human beings, I don't hold that against them- they are under no obligation to love it, though I find it a little spoiled considering how america has afforded both of them fantastic opportunity, both huge successes because of their hard work and intelligence, both stories would not be so possible in other countries. I'm sure they have legitimate gripes, but I don't think they approve of the very core structure upon which this country works- they seem to want to change it completely, and I don't want it changed that dramatically. Change is their platform, but I don't want change if it is change that makes my personal life harder. Based on some things he has written in his books, and based on his relationship with Jeremiah Wright, I am worried about his personal feelings towards white people. I don't know his mind, and if I could be convinced that he harbors no such resentment to white people in america, then I would feel quite comfortable with him as president, despite his polital views. I think Palin's story trumps everyone's. And yes, I am very aware that Joe Biden has a net worth between $50,000 and $350,000. Indeed that is suprising low, and it suggests to me that he has not partaken in corruption in his 30 years in the senate and that sits well with me. However, he is apparently the third most liberal senator in politics, and that worries me given my political views.
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4-8 more years of more sucking will maybe wake you guys the fuck up. Let's just hope Palin doesn't nuke us at the other side of the world, because and angel told her we preach evolution.
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not Houston.But, my sister-in-law said that Austin was shutting down yesterday in preparation for Ike, in case the city felt any effects from the winds and rain. Hopefully Harry, Yoko, FatherGeek and Co. are safe, dry and happy!
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Some of the arguments being made in its defense are truly inane. It's being reduced to "which torture hurts the most" and "which torture leaves the most permanent physical damage".
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that waterboarding doesn't leave any physical damage even if it causes pain and discomfort. Does that in theory mean that if a machine is designed which can inflict any amount of physical pain and discomfort on its victims, that it doesn't constitute torture? If not, then at what level does the pain in effect become torture?
Sure, being fed into an industrial shredder or having one's nails extracted is probably very painful and uncomfortable, but could a case be made that being burned alive feels a lot worse? If so, does that mean the shredding and nail pulling isn't torture as much as being torched is?
Or what about special forces soldiers who knowingly and willingly endure beatings while training for interrogation? Does their willing participation mean that real captives who are beaten AREN'T being tortured?
The bottom line is that if we condone waterboarding then we have in fact begun descending a very slippery moral slope which surely and inexorably will erode America's moral high ground. What is the point of fighting an enemy which we slowly and gradually begin to resemble?
Waterboarding is torture, plain and simple, no matter how many "worse" forms of bodily harm you try to compare it with. -
I am enjoying our debate and you seem fairly reasonable but you’re missing my point. I’m not saying that any of things are wrong in and of themselves. What is wrong is the lying about them to create a persona that clearly does not exist in reality. McCain told reporters that Palin sold the plane on Ebay for a profit (it was to illustrate how crafty she was at saving the government money). The only problem was, she didn’t. I don’t care if Palin fired her chef. However, she repeatedly stated in her stump speech that she fired the governor’s personal chef in an attempt to fight government waste (much to the chagrin of her kids – a line that always gets a good laugh from the crowd). Again, the only problem is, she didn’t. The chef continued to work for her and to get paid and to cook for her kids. The whole story was made up for effect. As for the bridge to nowhere – her exact quote is that “I said thanks but no thanks to that bridge to nowhere. If we want a bridge in Alaska we’ll build it ourselves.” This was to show that she was so against government waste, she actually told the Federal Government no when they tried to give her money for a wasteful project. You see what the problem is? She didn’t. She fought for the project, and only pulled her support after it became clear that the Feds would no longer pay for it. However, she certainly didn’t say “no thanks”, she actually negotiated to keep all the money. How is that fighting government waste? She was fighting for and taking handouts just like everyone else. As for the road . . . annual federal highway allocations are budgeted on the previous year. Had she returned the unused money, Alaska would have received less money the following year as a starting point. Rather than let that happen, Palin authorized spending tens of millions of dollars on a useless road. That is not fighting government waste, it’s contributing to it. McCain also claims Palin has not requested any earmarks as Governor when in fact she has requested over half a billion dollars. Her earmark requests amount to over $200 per capita while Obama’s amount to about $20 per person yet McCain and Palin are seen as crusaders against government earmarks. It’s almost comical. The simple fact is that everyone would love someone to cleanup Washington and fight corruption. Palin has been portrayed as that candidate but it’s fairly clear that such a portrayal is fiction. These aren’t passing comments either – these are bedrocks of the McCain/Palin campaign that they repeat over and over again. These lies are their proof that Palin is a reformer. If the primary things they point to are inventions, I can only assume that there isn’t actually any real record to run on.
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I cannot really argue with your belief that Obama doesn’t appreciate America. I disagree but I don’t pretend to know Obama’s subconscious thoughts. I live in an inner city neighborhood in a major city and the economic realities that divide white from black are astonishing. The schools in this neighborhood are horrendous. I would never send my kids there (if I had any) but all the white people around here send their kids to private schools while the poorer minorities are all stuck with lousy public education where their children will learn little more than to accept the reality that they’ll probably never do any better than there parents. Obama grew up in a similar place so his frustration with the economic unfairness that persists is eminently understandable. However, a recognition that your country has problems and a belief that it can do better are not bad things. We're the wealthiest nation in the world but have an unacceptable level of poverty and homelessness. It’s not unpatriotic or a lack of appreciation. The hope that life can be better for all Americans is what has driven this county to progress for 200 years. It’s what makes it such a wonderful place. It’s not just the hope – it’s reality that a system is in place to allow us to make it happen. 40 years ago Obama couldn’t vote and in two months, half the country will be voting for him. America is amazing – but it’s not perfect there is nothing wrong with recognizing that and striving for something better always.
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Also let me ask, has your life been easier under Bush than it was under Clinton? The current Republican Party cannot remotely be called fiscal conservatives. Bush has destroyed the federal budget like no other president (we are probably the first civilization in history to lower taxes while waging a war) and McCain’s voting record as been in line with Bush 95% of the time. His proposed economic policy is virtually an extension of Bush’s current policy – tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations (with no accompanying cuts in spending) with the hope that the money will trickle down to the lower reaches of the economy. It’s an economic theory that the Republicans have espoused for decades that reality has repeatedly undercut. Deficit spending to this degree is not sustainable (if we continue on this path, the resulting inflation and destabilization of the dollar will make us all far more miserable than paying a few percent more in taxes). Bush’s father was smart enough to raise taxes and it cost him the election in 1992. Clinton was smart enough to do it again and it cost the Democrats the House and Senate in 1994. Still, it was the right thing to do. Our country, and the population as a whole (including the wealthy who did get wealthier under Clinton, it’s just he middle-class and poor also improved) have never been as economically sound as during the mid-to-late 90’s. You will not be better off under McCain. None of us will. In fact, the neo-con theory that is informing the current Republican Party depends upon it. It goes back to the New Deal. They hate Medicare and Social Security above all else but these are extremely popular programs that they’ll never be able to outright kill. However, if the budget is sufficiently unsustainable to the point where they have to be cut . . . success!!! Will you be better off without Social Security and Medicaid in a few decades? Grover Norquest, a neo-con architect integrally involved with the Bush/McCain economic worldview, outlined their philosophy best. “The plan is not to get rid of government, it’s to reduce it to the size where it can quietly be drown in the bathtub”. Be careful what you with for.
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I must sleep now . . . thanks for good-natured debate. That's a rare thing in AICN political talkbacks.
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look into ALL candidates.
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..are outta their fucking mind.Let's see, one who was obviously clueless during an interview with Charles Gibson and the other who was released from a POW camp via giving away his country's military secrets and of course he's too old, feeble and out of touch with the working class.If he's elected *gasps* he won't outlive his first term and by default we'll have a dumb ass hick chick for Prez.My only gripe with Obama, is that he should have picked Hil for the VP spot as this may effect his chances of winning.
WTF was he thinking or drinking?!? -
I tried posting on this yesterday and couldnt! whats the deal man?
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I guarantee that if you were asked about your opinion concerning the Bush Doctrine, you wouldn't have had a clue either. There is more to the Bush Doctrine than simply saying we are cool with a preemptive strike. Gibson was trying to torpedo Palin because he's a bleeding heart liberal. Nothing more needs to be said other than these partisan politics piss me off. Neither candidate is going to bring change, just more of the same partisan bullshit that we've had now for decades. I'm sick of it.
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Check out this article:
http://tinyurl.com/5mqokw -
Sure, all Christians believe that God ultimately created man and everything else. The question lies in the details. Creationists believe every detail of creation is revealed in the book of Genesis, which they think literally describes the origin of everything, with all species being created at once in their present forms, in the recent past. This is Creationism. Many Christians instead believe that scientific evidence and scientific theories illuminate the actual mechanisms used by God to bring about the universe over a long period of time. Those theories include the Big Bang and evolution. Creationists reject all this because it is not described in detail in their primary science text, the Bible, and because it makes them feel less good about themselves. Based on what you've said, you're not a Creationist.
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It's not a good idea to use the politics of the Civil War to make points about the current reality. Neither party was anything like what they are today. Republicans proudly point to Lincoln as one of their own, but if he ran today he'd be pilloried by them as an outrageous liberal whose bleeding heart wanted to deprive good capitalists of their property. Similarly, if Eisenhower could run today, his liberal warnings about the military-industrial complex would instantly lead to his being Swiftboated by his own party, just as McCain was back in 2000. The South hated Republicans for all those years because Republicans defeated them and took away their slaves. When the Democrats enacted civil rights legislation further freeing the blacks, the "Solid South" switched to hating Democrats instead.
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Jason Bourne has given us the most accurate assessment of a McCain Presidency yet. If he's incapacitated or croaks, I hope it's at least in 2012 or late 2011.
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It's not that she didn't intend to.
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Thanks for correcting. Glad Harry's okay.
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Its going to be tight now that the nazis have a milf to sing "jebus uber alles" to their joyless, sexless, hatemongering twilight of the no-soul, but Obama is still going to win the race. The bump from the 11th hour Palining is already on the wane, she's yesterdays news, now its back to reality, and reality favors Obama. Reality, as Steven Colbert once said, having a liberal bias. And that, dear friends is what this fight is really about -- the neocons wish their worldview made sense or bared any relation to reality, but reality itself has shown them, and the world, that it doesn't, so they're angry and in denial of their own innate wrongness, and therefore their rhetorical flourishes dismiss rational discourse altogether, favoring a bully-like screaming-head stance; the hot heads always get the most attention and cause the most damage until the cooler heads, the progressive heads, prevail. Truth will out. And out will be the neocon junta in t-minus approx. two months.
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I have to disagree with your premises here. For one thing, I have no sense whatsoever that the ongoing decline in our economy has worsened one bit since the Democrats took over the congress. I certainly didn't think the economy was in any way good before then. The continuing destruction of our economy which makes it difficult for middle class people to live decent lives has been apparent to me for a long time, at least since the Clinton era, in fact. Whatever new jobs rich people are creating are for the most part in the Third World. New American jobs mostly consist of low-paying opportunities for us to sell things to each other. That kind of economy is like a flywheel which is spinning a little slower all the time because there's no new energy coming into it. You don't create wealth that way. You create it by making things, not by bringing them in from outside and then passing them around. That kind of system sends your wealth out into the world. It acts to average out incomes throughout the world. If you average out the decent incomes of a few hundred million people with a few billion poor ones, you wind up with a few billion somewhat less poor people ruled over by the tiny minority of the super rich who engineered all this. The idea that rich people react to tax cuts by creating more jobs seems highly dubious to me. They create jobs for only one reason: if they think it will make them more money. Usually they find they can make more money, at least in the short term, by eliminating jobs, or outsourcing them. They don't express their gratitude for having even more money by virtue of tax cuts by running out and creating unnecessary jobs. Nor do they need their already fabulous wealth to be increased before they can create those jobs. If they think the jobs will benefit them, they'll create them, taxes or no taxes. If I saw any evidence that corporations give a damn about middle class people and were really being held back from developing our economy by taxation, I'd be all for reducing their taxes. I certainly agree that it's not rich people who are harmed by bad economies. At least in the short term, the less they have to pay their workers, the happier these people are. In the longer term, they're going to find that people with lousy jobs can no longer afford to buy anything, and it's all going to implode. The engineers of this collapse won't be going hungry over it. You're tarring liberals with a very broad brush if you believe they dread the day when poorer people will be empowered and then abandon them. The less power and wealth is concentrated in the hands of the super rich, the stronger this country will be. I want rich people to realize they need us more than we need them. We all want to see that day.
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I think your predictions of doom are only speculation. If things go the way you fear, then I'll reconsider whether Obama should have taken longer to mitigate the disaster in the making created by Bush. After all, once we willfully and needlessly destabilize a country, we do have an obligation to try to contain the damage, no matter which side started the mess. We might also ask ourselves if such a disaster could have been avoided if we hadn't chosen to go blundering in there in the first place.
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OK I don't have a vote in the USA I am British but I want every body to vote in every election they are eligible for. I see that some of you are complaining that us non americans are stating our preferances for, why as the President of The USA will control the actioons of most of the civilised world. Britain marches to Americas tune that is why we are your closest Allie.
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"I guarantee that if you were asked about your opinion concerning the Bush Doctrine, you wouldn't have had a clue either." Well vez, I'm not running for the candidacy of Vice President also the Palin interview was such an embarrasment not only to the Neo Cons, but too those who support Sarah.If you ask me, I thought "Charlie" went easy on her compared to that asshole hypocrite Bill O'Reily (another disrace to the Irish.) who grilled Bam on his show.Let's face it, Palin is White trash in disguise, so was Bill (Clinton) to a fault but atleast he did more for the country than both Bushs combined.Oh and if you ask me, a Mother of 5 has no business running the country which she will once McCain gives up the ghost.Don't blame Gibson cause this Woman failed to give direct answers, she's a idiot and she was coaxed/prepped nonetheless.You bitch about partisan polititcs, well guess which side fucked up the Country during the last 8 years?No candidate can bring total change, but i'll support the "lesser evil" any time of the motherfucking day.Most Republicans are classless douchebags and the Dems need to grow more pairs of balls to go after McCain/Palin we don't need to treat her with kid gloves because she's a Woman.Ol'Johhny picked her for obvious reasons one of them would be a psychological tatic: "you can't diss a mother of five, you sexist bastard.."Race Card?1? No, "it's the Gender card stupid".
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I want to point out some things about the current Congress. The Democratic lead is too slight for them to accomplish much. They don't have the votes in the Senate to defeat the frequent Republican filibusters, and they don't have the votes in either house to defeat the frequent Presidential vetoes. You might see these as good things preventing the Democrats from running wild and actually doing things. Thus, as long as the Republicans are more interested in rendering Democrats ineffectual than in advancing the country (as I believe they are), there's not much the Democrats can do.
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I found out in the last hours of voting that I couldn't. I made several phone calls and figured out what happened and I sent stuff in, but there are some uniquely weird things concerning my multiple addresses that kinda leave me in the dark about whether I am even registered now. I'd really dig if somebody somewhat savvy who did this cliche "hey register to vote" thing posted some info that laid bare the means to check to see if you were registered.
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I don't think it's fair to characterize the Republicans as joyless. Palin, for example, is known to enjoy slaughtering entire groups of defenseless caribou with high-powered weapons. McCain has stated that his favorite thing in the world is grilling steaks. I'm sure he does it with a smile on his face.
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seriously, with the log jam in congress, is anything REALLY going to change? Either way we will be out of IRAQ in 4-8yrs...its not like Obama will bring the troops home inside of 30days of being elected or McCain would have the power to keep the there for "100 years"
The only real change that the new administration can make is on the Supreme Court...and if the nominee is to far right or left Congress will move to block them
Yes it is important to VOTE so your voice is heard, but dont go expecting any real "change" -
She asked the librarian how she would respond if she were asked to pull books. She did not ask how does one go about pulling them. Big difference. On creationism (which is important to me as I teach Biology), she has said that it shoudn't be part of the curriculum, but should be open to discussion if a student asks about it. As for secessionism, there is no evidence to support the claim that either she or her husband holds secessionist sympathies.
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Sep 14, 2008 10:24:32 AM CDT
Whats the point in voting in a two party system...
by whinynegativebitch
...When both the parties are fucking awful?
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The bullshit you just spewed is exactly the kind of partisan politics that I'm talking about. You talk like the repuglicans are the only one that are screwing up this country. Well you must be licking your scrotum too much and not paying attention if you think the dems are any better. FACT, neither party is truly in it to help America because they are both filled with career politicians. And BTW, when I point out the bullshit that Palin had to go through with Gibson, that doesn't mean I automatically support her or McCain. As you pointed out, Obamaessiah goes through crap too. Why, you ask? Because all of the media is filled with biased bullshitter reporters that couldn't be unbiased if the truth slapped them in the face with a sledgehammer. But I digress, you go on and be your left wing nut job self for all the good it will do the world. Me, I'll be looking for real change that doesn't come in the form of the typical left wing or right wing nutjob that we've been so cursed with over the last few decades. God, just think about it... What have we had for the last few presidents...Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush sr, Clinton, Bush jr, and now Obamessiah or McPappy. Each of these scumbags was in it for the power and not for the good of the nation. God we need another George Washington and we need him NOW!
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perfectly said. However I think people like you and I are getting more common these days. I think the middle of the aisle type people are getting fed up with being led around by left wing or right wing assholes. This election won't bring change but I bet we'll see some in the next decade or two. There's only so much bullshit people can take before they are going to tell both parties to fuck off.
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candidates is that at the moment they are too fringe to be successful and often only single issue...even the ones that look good a first glance-Perrot,Ventura,Nader,Paul...dont look so good when you investigate further...Maybe one day there will be a viable candidate but not in the near future and not until there is a nationwide groundswell for a new party with a wide platform
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Middle class voters, don't fall for this GOP scam again. Don't you see? Find the lady, find the lady... well, there's no queen - they're palming that card. There's no Republican president coming who gives a damn about your interests. It's just 3 guys in tailored suits w/ flag pins under there. Aww, shucks, you got Bush, tough luck... guess it'll be tax cuts for the super-wealthy, bailouts for Wall Street, $4 gas, and a huge boondoggle in Iraq for all our cronies. C'mon, mainstream America, wanna play again? Triple or nothing.
Values voters, haven't you noticed that they don't end up doing anything on these social issues you care about? Gays in the military? Federal ban on gay marriage? Nothing has been done. Immigration? Border wall my ass... The Republican plan is to expand guest worker programs in order to CRUSH WAGES. I'm sorry, but you're being manipulated.
Did you know that Obama's plan to reverse Bush's tax cuts will only raise taxes for people making more than $250,000 a year? Obama is *not* going to raise *your* taxes. If you are such a person raking in that kind of cash, go ahead and vote Republican. If everyone truly voted for their own interests, we'd have a Democratic landslide.
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Do you honestly think the dimocrats give a damn about anyone either? Neither party gives a rat's ass about you. All they care about is power and quite frankly it won't matter who's in the white house because we're all screwed either way if it's a republican or a democrat.
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...but, thanks, MNG and BSB, for the sentiments and for fighting the good fight round these parts. The CoC is the party of true (or possibly 2for2true) change.
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Let's recap what the DEMS and Obama are against:
1. Working Women
2. Hockey moms
3. Disabled Veterans
4. American POW's
5. Mayors
6. Governors
7. Small states
8. Teenage mothers
9. toddlers
10. toddlers with special needs
11. children
12. children with special needs
13. the military
14. tax cuts
15. fighting islamo-fascists
Sounds like a winner. Looks team Obama is going after the community organizer transgender islamic vote. good luck with that.
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women should have a place in the grown up world. Hint: If she starts throwing nukes at infidels and appoints her high school girlfriend to head of staff, then back to the kitchen for them.
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...you're thinking of. People Against Goodness And Normalcy. Not Democrats. And good luck to you as well with your special needs, it's inspiring that you people are allowed on the internet unsupervised. Don't give out your password.
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I hope you wrote that simple-minded pack of nonsense as part of a your job application to Fox News.
In case you need to prove your versatility, I offer this similar assessment to what the Republicans are against:
1: Thinking 2: Book larnin' 3: Black people 4: People who live in cities 4: Senators 5: Big states 6: Science 7: Community organizers 8: Self-made men 9: Truth 10: Freedom 11: Caribou 12: Wolves 13: Any animal that can't be shot or eaten 14: Any animal that can be shot or eaten 15: Wildlife refuges 16: Public works 17: Integrity -
It appears that you have not understood my entire post. I am aware of the Dems' flaws but when you compare them against probably one of the worst administrations in Government along with a president who has the lowest approval rating ever, well you know which side is the fuckup.I did stated rooting for the "lesser evil" did i not? and it's so obvious that most Republican elected officials don't give a damn about the american people unless they are within a much higher tax brackett..ergo the rich.
With them it's less compassion and more greed. was'nt McCain part of the Keating Five who was responible for the S&L crisis? yet this old fucker got a slap on the wrist.He also supported Gingrich slashing of School lunch for children.If you hate the partisan BS, then stay your uber cynical ass home during election day.I however will vote for change if any.Bam is not the so called mesiah, but I'll give him the job before that rhetoric spewing ol pussy and the MILF. Atleast you're honest enough to attack both contenders, however you are very bitter.Not looking through Rose tinted glasses.SE -
answering questions, Honesty, Accountability,Learning,Change, giving the voter a straight answer
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18) 9/11 Victims 19) families of 9/11 victims 20) small towns 21) medium towns 22) big towns 23) cities 24) people making less than $5 Million 25) nature / environment / God's green Earth
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Don't forget the bears.
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Sunday, September 14, 2008
UH OH!
Current mood: shocked
I really cannot bite my tongue anymore when it comes to Sarah Palin.
I couldn't be more supportive of a woman in office, but let's face it, it comes down to the person, and their beliefs, male or female.
Is it a sin to be gay? Should it be a sin to be straight? Or to use birth control? Or to have sex before marriage? Or even to have a child out of wedlock?
I find it quite interesting that a woman who now is running to be second in command of the United States, only 4 years ago had aspirations to be a television anchor. Which is probably all she is qualified to be... Also interesting that she got her passport in 2006.. And that she is not fond of environmental protection considering she's FOR drilling for oil in some of our protected land.... Well hey, if she wants to drill for oil, she should DO IT IN HER OWN backyard. This really shows me her complete lack of real preparation to become the second most powerful person in this country.
Hmmmm-All of this gets me going-Fear, Anxiety, Concern, Disappointment, and Stress come into play...
Is our country so divided that the Republicans best hope is a narrow minded, media obsessed homophobe?
I know that the most important thing about this election is that people need to exercise their right to vote, regardless of their choice... I would have liked to have remained impartial, however I am afraid that the "lipstick on a pig" comments will overshadow the issues and the fact that I believe Barack Obama is the best choice, in this election, for president...
Palin's Desire to "save and convert the gays"-really??
According to this Associated Press story, the church of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is hosting a kind of conference devoted to the "conversion of Gays" -- no kidding.
Here's the AP text:
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) ? Gov. Sarah Palin's church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer.
You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality," according to the insert in the bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed since she was a child.
Palin's conservative Christian views have energized that part of the GOP electorate, which was lukewarm to John McCain's candidacy before he named her as his vice presidential choice. She is staunchly anti-abortion, opposing exceptions for rape and incest, and opposes gay marriage and spousal rights for gay couples.
http://zennie2005.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah-palins-church-hosts-anti-gay.html
I feel it's necessary for me to clarify that I am not against Sarah Palin as a mother or woman.
Women have come a long way in the fight to have the choice over what we do with our bodies... And its frightening to see that a woman in 2008 would negate all of that.
Oh, and...Hint Hint Pali Pal- Don't pose for anymore tabloid covers, you're not a celebrity, you're running for office to represent our, your, my COUNTRY!
And in the words of Pamela Anderson, "She can suck it"..
Lindsay- "I have faith that this country will be all that it can be with the proper guidance. I really hope that all of you make your decisions based on the facts and what feels right to you in your heart-vote for obama!"
Samantha- "I love this country- however i wasn't born here and don't have the right to vote- so i beg of you all to really do your research and be educated when you cast your vote this coming november.... and if you're in doubt- vote for obama! Mainly because if she gets elected my green card probably won't get renewed!!!"
xoxo
Lindsay and Samantha
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Let's recap what the REPS and McCain are against: 1. Common sense. 2. Rational foreign policy or discourse of any kind. 3. ANYONE and EVERYONE who makes under $500k a year. 4. Any and all non-white, non-christians (they're all evildoers after all). 5. Veterans, disabled or not (remember, under Bush, having PTSD means that you have a character flaw -- get you to the rat infested VA hospital and get thee gone, sayeth the Neocon Junta). 6. American POW's (unless they shill for oil companies like McCain). 7. Minority Mayors 8. Minority Governors 9. East Coast and West Coast states 10. Teenage mothers who decide they would rather control their own vaginas then letting a theocratic supreme court do it for them. 11. middle class, working class, poor toddlers (especially minority, non-christian or immigrant ones). 12. middle class, working class, poor toddlers (especially minority, non-christian or immigrant ones) with special needs. 13. middle class, working class, poor children and adolescents (especially minority, non-christian or immigrant ones). 14. middle class, working class, poor children and adolescents (especially minority, non-christian or immigrant ones) with special needs. 15. the military (fighting a war on two fronts? dropping the ball on the real goal to steal some oil? kicking vets off the benefits rolls? open-ended tours of duty that stress families and cause job loss? These are all Republican policies. 16. tax cuts for the middle class and working class (republicans like to help out the RICH and fuck everybody else after all) 17. fighting endless wars so that the Oil Baron in Chief can increase his coffers. Looks team McCain is going after the ultra-wealthy neo-nazi vote. good luck with that.
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Bowman if you larned anything from books, it that's the republicans are the party of freedom. They were the a-b-o-l-i-tion-ist party. (That means they were against slavery) And fought against and won. Ir was called the Civil War. When the Dems instituted the Jin Crow laws in the south, the Republicans fought to give southern blacks the right to vote. Teddy Roosevelt (another Republican) started the C-o-n-s-erv-ation and Women's suffrage (Right to Vote) movements in this country. And remember it was a Democratic Governor who put the Confederate flag on the state house in NC and it was the Republicans who actually passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act through the Senate when the Dems (like Al Gore Sr.) opposed it. Go back and read your history books if you can read.
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Sep 14, 2008 11:45:32 AM CDT
To Samus Aran, Dave Bowman and all posters who loke long posts
by toadkillerdog
Please guys, use paragraph breaks. It makes ii so much easier to read your words. You make the breaks like so - remove the spaces from the 'p' and the greater than and less than signs It really makes life easier for us readers.
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What the hell does any of that past history have to do with the present? I mean really? Which party since the early 70's overwhelmingly pulls support from the far right religious and cultural extremists? Which party since the early 70's consistently draws support from the most racist elements in this country? Yes, the Republican party was all those things you said they were in the past, they changed. And guess what? So did the Dems. This is 2008 dude.
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I'd like to thank Dick Cheney and all he's done for the United States in his time as Vice President and as Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. As Secretary of Defense, thank you for cutting the military back so far that the United States can no longer effectively respond to any crisis in the world. Ronald Regan spent eight years building the military and creating cilvilian military jobs building planes and ships so the United States could effectively respond to any threat in the world. But thanks to your vision, you cut back the military closing many bases and causing thousands of Americans to lose their jobs while destroying the economy of many areas (like the Upper Peninsula of Michigan) who depended on the jobs and the money spent by the armed services to get by. As Vice President thank you for showing H.W. he was wrong not to invade Iraq by pushing W. into invading Iraq. Obviously H.W. was wrong about being stuck in a Vietnam like situation if the United States tried to invade Bagdad. Your intelligence, wisdom and belief that Christianity must be spread throughout the world was realy what the country has needed all along. And thank you for making sure your friends at Haliburton were able to make a dollar or two off the suffering of Hurricane Katrina and the Iraq conflict. Dozens of your friends would have been much worst off and wouldn't have been able to move Haliburton headquarters to Dubai if it hadn't been for your level-headed leadership. And last, but not least, thank you for showing us why we have a government for the people by the people. By throwing the constitution out the door, by ignoring the Bill of Rights and ignoring the will of the people, you showed us why the founding fathers put a system of checks and balances in place (though you are trying very hard to show us why that was wrong as well). So thank you Dick Cheney for showing us how much dmage one person can help influence on a country by setting us back 100 years. And thank you for showing us why Ronald Regan is one of the greatest Republican presidents ever because he was the only one smart enough to see you for who you really are and keep you out of the cabnet.
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You can't handle the truth so you ridicule. The Dems are actually the Neo-Nazis. First they wanted to take my heavy metal records away, then video games and now they want to institue the Fairness Doctrine to supress free speech because it opposes them.
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...oh, and did anyone see Tina Fey's bang-on impersonation of Sarah Palin on SNL last night?
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Matt Damon.
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Does she believe as some hardcore christo-fundies believe that God Created Aids to punish gay people.? Is she someone she hates muslims? and believes that their book is a book of lies? does she believe that islam should be erradicated(that's what the Christo-fundies who support the war on terror believe or believed). these are are all really relevant questions for someone running for the highest office in the world.
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Their net worth is greater than Alaska's GDP!!!
And hence better qualified! -
I love how the go to guy everytime a show needed a cool republican is now Hitler. I love how the left is now freaking out because their messiah isnt just going to be handed the presidency. Most of all I love the people that think any of this matters. Everyone wants their guy to win so they can believe that the good guys won and someone that thinks like they do is running the country the right way. Good luck with that. If Obama could actually do the things he is promising I would vote for him and I still might but not because I believe he will accomplish anything. The only reason to vote for Obama is because the world will automatically love us and the dollar will go up. Its all show. If he does win he will try and make everyone think he has a mandate and will make a huge power grab like Clinton and Congress will go back to the Republicans. However, If McCain wins then we will be treated to the liberals flipping out and no one freaks out better then liberals. Its like candy. The only other reason I might vote for McCain is the brilliance of picking Palin. Actually derailing Obama and knocking him out of the spotlight all by simply picking a woman with a downs syndrome child...brilliant. (and again downs syndrome mom and tortured war veteran are nazi's...hilarious)
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Regardless of who you vote for, you are still voting for the same system. Only under a microscope will you see the differences between Dem and Rep. There is enough money in this nation to give everyone shelter, food, medicine, and sanitation. But because of the greedy fucks demand their % we will always have that divide between the rich and the poor. So much wasted money and food could be used for the betterment of the needy. I'm just fucking baffled that the word homeless and hungry is in our vocabulary. Even in the world but more so in the USA. It should be a common law on this planet that everyone born in this world deserves the needs I mentioned above. Fuck you, to all of the assholes standing in the way of what is fair for everyone.
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No one. No - one, in their right mind believes Palin is qualified to be VP. let alone President in the event something happens to McCain, should he win. There were far, far more emininently qualified female republicans he could have chosen had he wanted to. Palin brought ultra conservative values and sex appeal - as well as an immediate bump in the polls. McCain has lost all his integrity in reaching for the brass ring. No one who is more interested in the welfare of the country, as opposed to personal interest in just winning the presidency, would put palin within a heartbeat of taking over. No 72 year old man, who has a history of cancer, and whose health will be an issue in the very near future would do that, unless he is so cynical that he just does not give a damn what happens to this country once he is gone. I used to like McCain. he lost all credibility with me with this pick.
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Give me a break with that "there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans". The cynical love to throw that out as the crowning argument that it doesn't matter what we do. What a load. Does anybody honestly believe Gore would have done the same shit over the 8 years that Dubya pulled?
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1) When the librarian spoke her mind about the banning of books she was later told that Palin felt that she "didn't have the support" of the librarian. The fact that she's never gone as far as actually banning books (or been stopped from doing so) doesn't make her any less of a ban-happy harpy.
2) She has said that BOTH creationism and evolution should be taught but she has NOT emphasized one as being taught in science class and one in religion. She, like so many other creationists, is using a very popular tactic these days, the purpose of which is to blur the lines between the two.
3) Her husband was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party for YEARS and she was present during meetings in Wasilla. How common is it for Mayors in America to attend the meetings of every political party just because they happen to be mayor of the town in question?
You're splitting hairs here in an attempt to deflect legitimate criticism of her anti-American and zealous behavior. -
We flipped our finger to the king of england
Stole our country from the indians
With god on our side and guns in our hands
We took it for our own
A nation dedicated to liberty
Justice and equality
Does it look that way to you?
It doesn't look that way to me
The sickest joke I know
[Chorus]
Listen up man, I'll tell you who I am
Just another stupid american
You don't wanna listen
You don't wanna understand
So finish up your drink and go home
I come from the land of Ben Franklin
Twain and Poe and Walt Whitman
Otis Redding, Ellington,
The country that I love
But it's a land of the slaves and the ku klux klan
Haymarket riot and the great depression
Joe McCarthy, Vietnam
The sickest joke I know
[Chorus]
I'm proud and ashamed
Every fourth of july
You got to know the truth
Before you say that you got pride
Now the cops got tanks 'cause the kids got guns
Shrinks pushin' pills on everyone
Cancer from the ocean, cancer from the sun
Straight to Hell we go -
You are 100 percent correct sir. It's the liberals who brought us the record rating system and were afraid video games were going to make us all serial killers. And it's the Liberals with the Fairness Doctrine who feel the need to supress people like Rush Limbaugh and Savage Nation because they dissent from their Shangri-La point of view.
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BUT, you can only assume what he might have done differently. The candidates can say all the nice and pretty things they want, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. It has to pass through congress, the system. Bought and paid for by big corps. I like Gore better and I like Obama better, but you are still saying yes to the same system. Any real change would come from people like Nader and "perhaps" Ventura (don't know any polices of him though). But the simple fact that these parties are blocked and have to go through hell to have a chance, means the system is corrupt. The same way Tucker was crushed by the big 3 auto companies is the same thing here. You can change the frosting but it's still the same fucking cake.
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You are a FUCKING IDIOT. The tax cuts help ONLY THE VERY WEALTHY, meanwhile increasing taxes for THE VAST MAJORITY OF US. If you are a middle class, working class, or poor person making under $500k a year (pretty much most of us) and you vote Republican? You're a fucking idiot. You are voting AGAINST YOUR OWN SELF-INTEREST because you like the idea of faking moral superiority from a bunch of theocratic oil-barons using your religion to sucker you into compliance with your own self-destruction. D-U-M-B. Time to wake the fuck up America. Wake. The. Fuck. UP.
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McSame is reached a new low with just saying anything to get elected. The fuck has used the lipstick on a pig remark 3 different times. But on The View he said he was referring to Clinton's health care policy. Well Obama said it once referring to McSame's policies. Then Obama used another anaolgy right after with the fish/paper. I completing understood what he was saying. But both Barbra and Jill told McSame on The View yeah, but you said it too, and he said "He shouldn't of said it". Fuck off you half dead corpse, and on top of that everyone that has paid attention KNOWS Obama's polices cut 95% of people's taxes, at least 3 times a better offering then McSame. But McSame is going around with his puppet sidekick saying Obama will raise your taxes. WFT?
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The very fucking reason that she'd tried to take polar bears off the endangered species list so she could promote drilling is enough reason to be removed from everything except babysitting her granddaughter so it's mother can actually get a decent education to raise the unwanted birth, rather then to continue to get laid and smoke a hockey player's cock that on his Myspace page says he hates kids. OMG what a fucking joke this is. That dude fucked the wrong chick. Palin will use hers powers like she did with the cop thing to grab this teen boy by the sack and make him somebody he's not. But I'm sure Palin will hire out the babysitting and bill it to Alaska's budget like she did everything else.
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The wealthy in Ireland dont like that word and believe everything is fine. Where or Where is Commander Brian. Well before the start of the Irish political season. He was last seen on the golf course. He is now headed for his party's convention. We have a tosspot for a Finance minister. A real blatherer. Nobody knows what will be in the budget, next month. I think they will savage all the state bodies. There was no peep from our govt all summer long. After failing the lisbon treaty. they went all quiet. Not one statement about the Economic crisis. Not one. They are all back to School next week. The pay talks collapse. and the situation at Aer lingus has left the Unions stunned. Public Sector Unions are adament there will be no pay freeze and the private sec. want that. Add to the mix, the idea of Cutting the civil Service, and you have a long winter of discontent. To paraphrase the late great dermot morgan. "that's what you get for hanging bertie out to dry"
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Large scal Voluntary redundencies. The unions all read about this in thier newspapers before heading to Pay talks. Which the omens arent good for.
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"We need to pray that this is God's plan", or whatever the fuck she babbled from her brainwashed, twisted Christian bullshit way of thinking. This bitch is dangerous. God's plan, her God believes in war. Invading a country based on greed and dominance. OK........Anyone that knows this and still votes for this shit is totally fucked in the head. And remember that McSame couldn't beat Bush before when his age wasn't an issue. Does that tell you anything???? Hello!
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You are deluded if you think the Republicans of 1860 or even 1910 have anything in common with the Republicans of today. Why did the South hate the Republicans so much for so many years? Because they defeated their secession and took their slaves away. Thus they were all Democrats for decades after that. In the 60s, when Democratic presidents of conscience pushed civil rights, the racist Democrats then running the South rebelled and became Republicans overnight, as most Southerners are to this day. Yes, Republican votes were needed to pass the bill because the Southern Democrats were racists. That was back in a time when not all Republicans put party loyalty above all else and many were worthy of respect. However, NONE of the few Republicans representing the South voted in favor of the bill. In the rest of the country, a greater proportion of Democrats voted in favor of it than Republicans. The only "northern" Democratic senator to vote against the bill was Byrd of WVA. He seems to have changed his tune since then.And TR, yeah, he began the conservation movement, which is one reason I admire him. Now ponder how that would go over today. What, he wants to take big tracts of land away from miners and ranchers and developers and set them aside for tree-huggers and hippies? Oh yeah, that would go over really well with your crowd.
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Well, i voted democrat in 2000 and 2004, but as i got older im more in line with McCain now, lol, ive gotten conservitive as i greew older.
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Thanks for the tip on the paragraph breaks.
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From a inexperienced Democrat who spent twenty years in the Daley political machine in Chicago during the week and being indoctrinated into anti-American, anti-Semitic, racist, liberation theology? Seriously?
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I posted a reply like 3 minutes after this went up, and the next day there still weren't any talkbacks. Now it shows the first reply was from 1:07pm the next day, 17 hours later, and apparently all earlier posts never made it.
Wha-happen? -
In the first version of the Civil Right Act, 7% of Southern Democrats voted in favor, and 0% of Southern Republicans. In the second version, a single Southern senator from each side voted in favor, the two from Texas.
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"First off the president does not have the ability to modify the laws. That is the job of Congress, which for the record has been controlled by the democrats the last four years."
For some reason they forget this
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Like the rest of all the Hollywood fuckers, both Rs and Ds...keep your opinions and who your are voting for out of your "please register to vote" post.
There are plenty of neutral and non-partisan voter registration sites like votesmart.org - it is disingenuine to send people to Barack's (or McCain's) voter registration site. -
Sep 14, 2008 3:05:47 PM CDT
Progressive Black Man vs. Braindead Crooked Nazi Whore Fundie MI
by laserpants
So its come to this. I say Progressive Black Man wins by just enough to make it count. Watch country start to bounce back from the brink; an apocalyptic precipice we almost fell over due to 8 years of republican criminal incompetence and lies. Watch FOX NEWS and your local red state right wing propaganda radio scream and vomit with rage HILARIOUSLY for the next 4-8 years.
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Nazi Milf.
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He'll set a whole new trend in depends
They'll probably come out with a signature line -
First of all, the Democrats have been running the Congress, with a very small majority which does not enable them to overcome Republican opposition, for a bit less than 2 years, not 4.
Second, Bush has taken to issuing numerous "signing statements", claiming he has the authority to ignore any law he doesn't like. According to Samuel Alito, these are useful to "increase the power of the Executive to shape the law." This sounds like modification to me. Try again, loudmouth. -
Up here in Canada, we have a choice of three parties. All total Douches.
Our idea of dirty politics is putting up a website where a Puffin shits on your biggest rival. That's entertainment! -
It doesn't matter who get elected, nothing is going to change. In fact, things are only going to get worse until the great winding up scene.
The power isn't with the President, it's with Congress.
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Thank you for advocating people researching and coming to their own conclusions. Too many times, nutjobs from both sides launch into vitriolic rants about how the other side is evil. Thank you for your maturity and insight.
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Just an observation, I haven't read too much here from anyone with an ability to call it down the middle. There is a lot of noise coming from closed minds on both sides. It's not black and white or good vs evil here. If you consider it be you are intellectually lazy. McCain has made a career out of speaking his mind and Obama is an impressive guy also. Neither of these guys really deserves to be demonized.
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every major decision is already laid out before hand? and besides Congress makes the rules and runs the country, not the President. He's just a figure head. 1 vote doesn't make a difference and your "voices" are not heard so stop living in fairytale land.
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He used to be more of a moderate Republican, someone who reached across the aisle, but since ramping up for nomination, after the pantsing at the midterm elections, he's gone more and more to the far right, the religious far right specifically, the "religious" BIG OIL RIGHT most specifically, trying to shore up that loony right wing christian base along with the Money people, the UberWealthies, and the Palin nomination (which I think is going to wind up back-firing in a big way), was clearly an 11th hour hail mary shot to the lowest common denominator -- the ultimate example of the very "celebrity politics" he fallaciously accuses Obama of wielding -- which might boost the numbers now, because she's a celebrity, but I don't think that necessarily translates into votes, just popularity. Just wait for the debates, they're going to be GREAT. Don't worry though, long after Obama is sworn in, Palin is going to be a right wing pundit / puppet / model / prop of some kind on the tv box for you to fawn and stroke your gundildos over, and McCain, sad, broken McCain, will just fade away into the detritus bin of history, the also-rans... as a man who completely sold out on all his ideals and lost it all anyway. "Straight Talk Express" done went Crooked. What a shame.
Go Obama Go! -
I'll put the Thrust back in Trust
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Death to unborn baby = democrat = evil.
Other than that horrible stance (abortion), the majority of democratic policies will send us into a recession faster than you can say Bushwacked.
Republicans FTW. They're not perfect but way "better" than democrats. -
But let's not rely on big goverment to legislate morality. That stance has not been working out very well so far.
My biggest problem with the wacko right-to-lifers is referring to stem-cell research as baby-killing. The embryos in question are most often gotten from fertility clinics to be used rather than discarded. Sounds like making lemonade from lemons to me. And some real cures for real diseases would be a direct result of this research. Both Obama and McCain know this. That is one reason the far right hates them both.
Do you know how many embryos are destoyed in fertility clinics so that a couple can have ONE child? If you mouth-breathers REALLY wanted to stand by your convictions you would be protesting fertility clinics and rallying that this practice be BANNED ala stem-cell research. Then you'd see how tolerant the general population actually is of your radical views. -
explain in detail how republicans are "way better than democrats" - republicans only care about fetuses, once the bay is born theyre on their own - theyll fight to save a fetus, but once its out in the daylight... "fuck you, youre on your own"
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Scraps: "GRRRRR"
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with that you point out the craziness of using the "word of god" as an argument to their viewpoint...after all, if a couple is infertile isn't that "God" telling him that they shouldn't have children? lets see a minister spout that view and see how the public reacts....Abortion may not be a pleasant idea, but it should remain a personal decision and not one forced on people by legislation based on someones religious views......
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And he hates America for "flipping off" the European powers that where responsible for the majority of native American slaughtering and slave trading. Welcome to the historical mindset of the average Obama voter.
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If the anti-abortion fanatics who consider a fertilized ovum indistinguishable from a human being were in any way consistent, they'd be holding a funeral every time some woman has a miscarriage or when an embryo doesn't implant. I'm sure the funeral industry would be happy to oblige.
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He said he's voting for *Mc*Cain
He's just not *Mc*sure *Mc*why... -
But it's your retarded Irish duty to whine about an American governor's dangerous Christianity. Beautiful.
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It's better to beat someone to death with the Koran than the Torah
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toad, I don't have a crowd. and your history on the south is a little skewed. The Dems are still the party of Jim Crow.
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Two bucks more and I would've voted for McCain.
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The Hannah Montana vote
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it's the daughters kid
The family that plays together.... -
Sep 14, 2008 5:48:56 PM CDT
IF MCCAIN IS SO GREAT, WHY THE NEED TO UNLEASH THE TORRENT OF LI
by bringingsexyback
about Obama? Why is his campaign so undignified and vile that even Karl Rove has said he's crossed the line? Is his pursuit of the Presidency worth lying to the American people? Does he think the American people don't deserve truth, only lies? And why won't he release his medical records?
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Sep 14, 2008 5:51:15 PM CDT
WHY DID SARAH PALIN INSIST ON CHARGING RAPE VICTIMS FOR RAPE EXA
by bringingsexyback
Why does she hate rape victims so much?
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by the Alaska Women Reject Palin group. They outstripped Palin's own support rally by over 40%. Nice!
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once someone has been victimized, it's ok to victimize them again.
And if no ones looking, it's actually kinda fun -
Damn, BSB. Is AICN helping you out by paying by the post?!
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Are you better off now than 4 years ago ?
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vote for Zombie Orville Redenbacher
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No, not really
But I do believe it could be worse and no matter who wins, they are inheriting a trend that has been development since clinton first took office -
Sep 14, 2008 6:09:11 PM CDT
Obama and McCain supporters are tards and wads, respectively
by _maltheus_
Vote the issues Harry? That'd be great. Just one thing, Obama and McCain are pretty much identical on all issues. And anything they appear to differ on goes away once on of them gets elected. While they're talking about lipstick, healthcare and pointless wars, the economy is on the verge of a total collapse making everything they stand for irrelevant. The Great Depression will seem charming and quaint by comparison.
It is an interesting horse race though. Obama should have won this by double digits but now he's in trouble all because the democrats are so mind-blowingly incompetent at campaigning. It's like watching a train wreck. All he has to do is focus on McCain and the economy but instead he decides to duke it out with McCain's flunky, Palin. They'll burst her bubble, leaving McCain to emerge unscathed just in time for the election against a much diminished Obama. The more he points out her lack of experience, the more he draws attention to his own. Not that I have a preference on way or the other now that Obama made it clear he's on board with FISA and the war agenda (even talking draft).
The sad truth is, if you're a Democrat, you should root for McCain and if you're a Republican, you should root for Obama. Because no matter who wins this, they will go down in history as one of the worst presidents of all time. There is nothing either of them can do to get us out of the hole the bankers have dug. The next president will be a one-termer. What we need to do is throw all the bums out of congress (except for the one honest one).
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Sep 14, 2008 6:20:23 PM CDT
Tomorrow's stock markets will dominate current Election "message
by g100
All the Palin trivia and mania is going to be forgotten VERY quickly.
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but still doing very well if taking into account combined income. Thank God my wife works hard so I can talkback. Now that I think about it maybe I should go out and hustle some more. Now I feel guilty.
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Sep 14, 2008 6:23:24 PM CDT
Actually, It Was REPUBLICAN Policies That Started The Depression
by laserpants
and the current, ongoing (for what, like 4-6 years now?) Recession. Isn't it weird how history seems to repeat itself? Republicans in power, the common man suffers. But truth will out. Truth will out.
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You got your eye on the ball, sir. Barclays pulled out of talks. But I'm sure someone will pick up Lehman at the 11th hour at a bargain price. They'd be stupid not to. But still that only means the banking industry is going to continue to be in tatters. Next week, as you said, AIG will be the talk of the Street.
Did you know the Fed shut down Silver Springs State Bank in Nevada last week? McCain's son was on the board, and he bailed out in July. He was on the oversight committee overlooking internal audit practices. Likely he saw some bad shit, but neglected to share it with stockholders. Nice. -
It's by no means certain anyone is willing to step up to the plate and this will be an 11.59 hour bailout if it is.
The Fed IS however talking about some kind of "softening the blow" funding and lending to wind down Lehman Brothers and other comparable institutions over the coming weeks to avoid a catastrophic domino effect not just in America but Worldwide.
It is true though, a lot of (relatively) small banks are beginning to go to the wall and the knock ons from Lehman Broters could well be horrendous.
Were I a campaign manager of even rudimentary intelligence I would be feverishly prepping the candidates for "All the Economy All the Time" very soon. -
Sep 14, 2008 6:43:28 PM CDT
Samus Aran, are you saying Republicans don't lie?
by leftofcentristdotcom
No conservative would ever try to convince voters that Obama was a Muslim would they? Surely they wouldn't resort to such blatant lies. Here's the sad part of that statement - what difference would it make if he was a Muslim? Is there a law somewhere that says a candidate has to be a Christian? or a Jew? Actually, according to the Constitution, there is no religious test. Why do you think there is more diversity in the Democratic party? Could it be because they are more accepting? I'd say they accept everything but conservative doctrine. Also Republicans are about as two faced as they come. O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh and their likes were all up in arms when Jamie Lynn Spears got pregnant. They blamed the mom. Now with Palin's daughter being pregnant, these same hypocrites are saying it wasn't mom's fault. What the FUCK is the difference? NONE!!!!
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Though the Fed talking about instituting far more favourable Emergency Lending rates tomorrow is a quasi bailout of sorts.
A "soft landing" for Lehman is being contemplated now rather than the panic immediate liquidation would bring. -
All My Ex'es Live In Texas
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Lehman Brothers will be the primary beneficiary.
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'Tell Me Lies' from Fleetwood Mac
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Sep 14, 2008 7:05:05 PM CDT
If you're Middle Class and you're voting for McCain/Palin...
by kazamasmokers
... you have some serious self-hatred issues.
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"Just one thing, Obama and McCain are pretty much identical on all issues" - Maltheus
Not true, Malthus. They hold completely opposite views on NAFTA renegotiation, the 700Mhz Auction, and Net Neutrality... perhaps the three biggest economuc issues of this election. Also, they have wildly varying tax plans. 58% of McCain's planned tax breaks will go to the wealthiest 1% of Americans. -
Can YOU, in good conscience, vote for a President who doesn't know how to use a computer, and a Vice President who believes cavemen fought with dinosaurs?
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Sep 14, 2008 7:13:18 PM CDT
I believe the Flintstones should be taught alongside Bible Stori
by g100
Fred and Barney would not lie to me.
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..is because things only change for the worse, consistently. These arguments over who better to run the country have been going on since the country was founded, the "us vs them" set-up is deliberate and as you can all see works VERY well. I'm sick to death of people saying get out and vote, the fultility seems to be lost on so many, I agree with a vote of "no confidence", both sides SUCK and I wouldn't trust or depend on either if I was standing at a crosswalk to even slow their cars down.
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..is because things only change for the worse, consistently. These arguments over who better to run the country have been going on since the country was founded, the "us vs them" set-up is deliberate and as you can all see works VERY well. I'm sick to death of people saying get out and vote, the fultility seems to be lost on so many, I agree with a vote of "no confidence", both sides SUCK and I wouldn't trust or depend on either if I was standing at a crosswalk to even slow their cars down.
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Now that you mention it, I'm sure you don't have a crowd. Brilliant rejoinder there, clown.
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the one you'd butt zex with
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No shit
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At least he is thoughtful and brilliant. McSame, not so much.
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All that FDR's micromanaging of the economy did was drag things out for almost a decade. It was having to fight and help win an extremely costly world war that put our economy back on track. Honestly we don't have to become USSR v2.0 just to survive as a viable economy, it's just about not doing stupid shit like having the govt mandate that private lenders give a percentage of their loans to poor people who are almost certain to default. Big surprise that bit of govt intervention blew up in our faces...
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he is thoughtful and brilliant.... oh Really?
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uhhh, yeah, sure
Whaevah, he's promised me the worldAnd he has such a deep background I know I can count on it -
NAFTA won't look all that different in the end and you won't personally notice the impact. And if you consider the 700Mhz auction and net neutrality among the biggest economic issues we face then you'll be in for a rude awakening in the next six months. Those are petty concerns given what we're up against. Taxes are an important issue but I don't see them as being that far apart there either. They're just quibbling over percentages and brackets. And considering all the debt that's being nationalized, we'll likely see a rise in taxes regardless of the rhetoric of who gets in. Along with hyper inflation followed by a sharp deflationary recession. People will be worried more about having a roof over their heads and food in their bellies. We're about to pay the price for focusing on nothing but fluff for the last 50 years while we've maxed out our nation's credit card. And both parties share equal responsibility there.
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You meant to type "democratic", right? And not some talk radio buzzword, Right?
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I am in the northeast, and the level of just-below-the-surface panic about the coming winter is frightening. And while I agree with what you say on the whole, the fact that one candidate (Obama) has definitive positions on those three issues - issues that ARE of major importance in a trillion-dollar information economy - and the other does not... is, to me, definitely indicative of a greater trend.
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I'd rather go about life while listening to McCains annoying voice while his cronies get rich
Than
Listen to Obamas grating voice while his cronies get rich -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbu5FxD9IUg
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Sep 14, 2008 8:42:00 PM CDT
I want an elite president who is smarter than me, not someone I
by right bastard
Though I'm sure Barack could throw down a few. 'Bama FTW. Enough of this right wing shit. Of course, if no one votes for democrats in congress, Barack winning may not mean much. As usualy, they're running a shit campaign in spite of themselves. As an independent, I hope the dems don't fugg it up again, as usual. They got a shitty president, a weak opponent, and (for once) more money. And for once, they even have a candidate who doesn't remind the voting public of Frankenstein. If they lose...the dems will be officially over.
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"I want an elite president who is smarter than me, not someone I 'could have a beer with'"
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I know you Foreigners think you have a say in our elections, you don't.
If you have a problem with that fine, pick up a firearm and come over and do something about it... oh wait most of you can't; firearms keep some (though not all) politicians from making too many wild outrageous laws that are detrimental to USA and personal freedom.
personally I am glad my ancestors left your sorry ass lot and will again remind you to stay the hell out of our affairs.
besides we shouldn't even be involved with Europe at all, should be concentrating on colonizing the rest of the solar system (lets get the hell off this rock they can keep Earth right up till they name it planet Mecca hope you bastards like berkas assholes) -
"I know you Foreigners think you have a say in our elections, you don't. If you have a problem with that fine, pick up a firearm and come over and do something about it..."
Oh sweet jesus... how much Jergens did you go through while typing THAT sentence? -
Not just the Fed but a collection of high profile Banks Worldwide are expected to contribute to the 50 Billion Emergency Fund.
Real fear is motivating these Banks to try and nullify the blow that a bankrupt Chapter 11 Lehman Brothers will have on the markets.
It may be too little too late though.
A buy out is now almost certainly off the table. Question is will Wall Street hold it's nerve or will Panic of incredible proportions set in tomorrow ?
Hold onto your hats folks this looks like being a rough one. -
McSame said "Palin has foriegn experience because Alaska is by Russia." Then Palin said "Yeah you can actually see Russia from Alaska." Wow then, you two stupid fucks, I am an astronomer, I have interstellar experience because I can see Mars, and Jupiter and Lyra from where I am.
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If I'm going to be skull fucked by an effeminate twit
I choose the less pretentious one -
with the right drugs you can
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I'd like to make a rational choice on whom to vote for, based on their beliefs and stands on issues, but I have no idea who McCain is on that basis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&feature=related -
Its really simple. If you believe in civil liberties and freedom you are a Democrat. If you think YOUR belief that homosexuals should not get married, or women do not have the right to decide for themselves that they should terminate their own prengancy, or that people do not have a right to privacy... then you are a Republican. See Democrats believe in what this country was founded on, freedom, and are the true patriots. They are not constantly questioning your patriotism, or throwing theirs in your face. So if you believe in taking away OTHER peoples freedoms, then my all means, vote Republican... Oh, yeah, except for guns, everyone should have the right to bears arms, and shotguns, and assault rifles, and have the right to use them in a school, mall, church. Lets keep the freedoms that make money for the special interest.
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you get originality points for the funny jergens comment; but its not like I can't say what I want for now, its still a free country
you act like you are above me in intelligence and genetics and call me a schmuck for saying whats on my mind
why? because I have an opinion of my own and am willing to talk to others whom I know don't agree with me.
funny that you use schmuck when it seems with your attitude you should scream schwinehund! goose step much Kazma'pole'smokers? -
He'd be working on the CERN Large Hadron Collider right now, not running a faltering campaign, being upstaged by a hockey-mon. This "brilliant" idiot should be leading by 10 points easy. Well at least he's "thoughtful"...that's right up there with thrifty and reverent.We haven't had brilliant politicians in this country since the late 1700's. Obama is just a figurehead for the Chicago political machine. Chicago will be running the country if he wins. Well I guess they can't do any worse then Texas.
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You. are. a. DICK.
Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.
Now get back to beating off to Roadhouse -
so the peanut gallery has a voice eh?
Champvinyl you are so hostile for an evolved chimp
, call me a dick because I speak my mind fine, try and stop me Skippy
as for your roadhouse comment, funny shit, hated the movie but funny comment; let me try one...
now go back to beating your respective bishop while watching bowling for columbine
silly fucktard!
and that was done in your own vernacular! enjoy douche bag -
just a small subject change,this is someting I have been interested in in for some while now; has there been any entertainment producer hints of DVD documentry on the development and use of this huge beast?
any info is most welcomed -
and one other question since this was supposed to be about politics
which canidate is more likely for putting up a moonbase in a five year time span? and don't give the bullshit response that "its not possible to do that in five years" fuck it! we could do it, just have to take some major risks (astronauts might die ohhhh like exploration is ever safe)
wondered if any one has heard anything on that -
but, a tip for puntersfor each of the following the first number is the public deficit in the first year in office and the second number in the last year in office: ford: 3.4%,4.2 carter: 2.7%, 2.7%, reagan: 2.6%, 3.1, bush: 2.8%, 4.7%, clinton: 3.9%, -2.4% (surplus), bush: -1.3% (surplus), 2.6%.basically the only presidents really since say, Johnson who have not significantly added to US public debt have been carter and clinton, and the two worst offender are bush and regan. That said, you may well say that you got a bang for your buck: bush's major expense has been the war on terror and communism fell sooner rather than later because of regan's military spending. so i'm fence sitting on whether it is a good thing or not, but the fact is republicans spend more and have bigger government.
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since and including nixon, the only time that the US govt has balanced the books was during clinton, the first year after clinton, and carter went close. Not that balancing the books is the only thing a govt should consider, there are good reasons for going into debt from time to time
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but why isn't there a Fringe talkback? Huh? EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!
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I love watching you lib lemmings go after Palin because she "believes dinosaurs lived 4000 years ago and fought cavemen." Keep drinking the kool aid. She never said it, said evolution should be taught in schools, and the only quote to the contrary being bandied about has been acknowledged a fake. http://tinyurl.com/6rnjmw
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Sep 15, 2008 12:54:31 AM CDT
"Congress, which for the record has been controlled by the democ
by shan
Wrong.
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As said earlier in the talkback - Wrong.
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Seems to me that on Friday night neither I nor anyone else could post here. And it was better that way. Cuz these dumbass TBs are not a place of positive and civil discourse. No one here hasn't already made up their mind and if there really is an undecided in the house all the BS they'll hear will discourage them from voting anyway. And that was kinda the point for this TB, wasn't it? I mean, other than the umpteenth opportunity for you to proudly wear your Obama cap.
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or full frontal from one of her daughters
2 years. max -
You know it to be true!
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You can't change the world. Politicians will always be liars. And don't forget the corporations who are the real rulers. They decide who gets chosen, not you. As much as you would like to think that you can have influence on an election you haven't. Just take a look at the way Bush got "elected" twice, with the minority of the votes. I always thought the majority of the votes got you an election. And now the Obama McCain show is on. If you seriously think Obama has a chance you are sadly mistaken. McCain will win. There is no way in hell that Obama will win. It's just to keep you people satisfied that a black man has a chance. There is no way in hell that America will accept a black man as a president. Don't get me wrong. Obama winning would be a big boost to the African-Americans and I am all for that, but the fact of the matter is that Obama won't win. Stop wasting your time, people. Take care of the people you care for, but ignore politics. They will do you no good.
And Harry. What the fuck are you doing ? Keep your site politics free, please. We come to this site to read and talk about movies and tv shows and comics and stuff. Please don't feed us politics. -
I would never blindly follow one party because i might agree with a few of there idea's. If either one of those guys had the United States true intrests at heart they would break party lines and attempt to fix this shit before it's too late. And on a final note i want to send a big FUCK YOU to anybody in hollywood ,or any other entertainment outlet that wants to try and tell me how i should cast my vote. Fuck you Matt Damon, George Clooney, Stephen Baldwin,Elizabeth Hasselback, and every other douche that abuses entertainment forums to try and tell me whats best for the U.S.Whats your qualifications? Fucking idiots. Sometimes living here really sucks.
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I'm voting for whoever supports giving the 5th digit to our porcine brethren
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Waterboarding not torture? May I direct you to www.vanityfair.com? Please look up Christopher Hitchens for a recent article on what waterboarding actually is, and then stop this nonsense once and for all.
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for you in the cheap seats (chucknchz) Nazi= FAR RIGHT totalitarian government. So by your own argument the Democrats can not possibly be the nazi party.
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I'd vote for a tapeworm rather than see that thing anywhere close to power again
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That America would rather vote for another Bush than Obama because he is Black.(actually he's half Black.)If the US preferred an feeble self centered ol fart and his Caribou killing Hockey MILF who has no class whatsoever, then this Country deserves all the Hell and misery it gets.Sooo, anyone heard the latest financial news regarding investment banks?!?
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It said Harry never calls anymore
I think it's lonely -
complete cunt. You vile piece of human flotsam, do us all a favour and fuck off.
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If I don't vote for Obama
I'm a fucking racist, right?
I need to know
Got to schedule my time
Make it to the rallies
Buy the T-Shirt
Yea us!
rah rah! -
A few of you have asked why us non-Americans think we have a say in the US election. I'll try to answer this for you. We don't. We know damned well that we have no say whatsoever in who the next American president is. However, as the US is the world's only superpower we look on this with a sense of terrified amusement. Remember, when the US sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold- so damn right we care that a creationist is within an ace of the White House.
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and the idea of Christopher Hitchens getting waterboarded makes me feel warm and fuzzy. from memory he lasted about 10 seconds. maybe this is because he is a heavy drinker/smoker. even he acknowledge in the article that him getting waterboarded was a wet dream for a lot of people. that crazy hitchens family, you english, you crazy guys. loveable loons
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And to think Palins granmaw rode t-rex'es with Jesus
This'll be the best x-mas ever! -
and have the nerve to call others Kool-Aid drinkers? LOL
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but for President too. Maybe after the debate in which she has to answer some remotely challenging questions you'll build churches in her name. LOL
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They waterboarded the wrong Hitchens, frankly. They should have done his brother- who is the journalist equivalent of Palin.
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Is your wife voting here?
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the trouble with Aunt Bessie's Yorkshire puds is that they try to sell you that their different but really their just the same as all the other Yorkshire puds only with a bright new wrapping
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The guy who said Charlie "Mr. Softee" Gibson was too hard on her. LOL
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There's a place for it in church or schools run by religious institutions.
Even the Jews don't want Creationism in public schools - and they were the ones who wrote the Old Testament. Jesus. -
look hawt in 6 inch fuck me now heels
Gotta go with Dino-Gal -
Looks like Bruce might've hit him too hard in the head.
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Please don't let the scary black man become President
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Sep 15, 2008 6:29:48 AM CDT
OBAMA WILL MAKE T. BOONE PICKENS HIS ENERGY SECRETARY
by bringingsexyback
Sarah will make her second cousin on her mother's side hers.
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. . .is if we all vote Libertarian. Please consider it!
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but the prospect of Palin's finger on the nuculur button is too frightening to consider.
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Sep 15, 2008 6:37:12 AM CDT
SARAH HAD AN AFFAIR WITH HER HUSBAND'S BUSINESS PARTNER
by bringingsexyback
Did the wingnuts use up all their righteous indignation on John Edwards?
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i'm on the motorboat platform
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Than political shit. It's only a battle of the verbal bitch slapping campaigns. Whoever has the best sound bite wins. At least with the HD players you can try them out at least.
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Yeah, she's postal voting, but her state is California which is shoo-in democrat. She's trying to find a swing state to vote Obama in as she's terrified at the thought of Palin/McCain.
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I think of Ginsu knives and the Popeil Pocket Pole
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What I meant was that the powers that be would never accept a black man as a president. The American people would accept Obama. I expect that Obama will get more votes but McCain will get elected the Bush way, i.e. not having the majority of the votes.
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You know you don't reach his level in any occupation
And especially his occupation without insane levels of scruinty and peer reviews.
And you know
In spite of all that.
I think this is a very ethical man.
Yeah, I'd vote for Colin Powell -
We're not voting for a president
We're voting for a prom king and queen
(Obamas up for both roles) -
...based on information that HE KNEW AT THE TIME TO BE FALSE. There is a very special level of hell awaiting Colin Powell.
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chuknchez said "... for not being able to type a keyboard because it is too painful because of the injuries he sustained.."
WHAT? Did you make that up?
McCain doesn't use the internet because he's old school... not because "he can't type". Good god, man. Have some respect for the guy and don't trivialize his injuries so you can score a campaign point for him. -
I appreciate you taking the opportunity to encourage _informed_ voting.I don't agree with your choice for President, but I would rather someone vote for Obama because they like his policies than vote for McCain because they like his ads.Informed voting ftw!
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Yeah, generals have been known to do that>br>
They've also been known to obey lawful commands.
Right up to the moment they retire.
You should just vote for who you think has the most rad tats -
would stay far away from voting for a light weight, do nothing, accomplished nothing Obama. Unless you want people who associate with domestic terrorists, go to Church with racist preachers and biggest claim to fame has been a community organizer.
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Quite right, anyone with half a brain would avoid Obama. Anyone with a complete brain will stay away from a candidate so desperate to win and so debased he'll select a running mate who is an ignorant religious fanatic, merely to appease the religious lunatic wing of his party.
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We should vote a black guy as president
Because he's black
Well, kinda... -
Seriously, whoever votes for McCain must need their fucking head examined! The guy has completely dismantled his "maverick" persona and fucked up his legacy by pandering to the far right and hiring that crazy, gun-toting creationalist sociopath Palin. The rest of the world can see exactly what's going on; this is America's last chance of redemption. Obama represents change, McCain more of the same. THAT COULD NOT BE ANY FUCKING SIMPLIER.
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Jesus Christ some of you people really enhance the stereotype of the dumb fucking American. Watch the news, check policies and, like Harry said, check their respective sites. Also, take your fucking head out of your ass, stop whacking off to quasi-sadistic internet porn and turn on CNN, The Daily Show, what-fucking-ever; just make an educated, informed decision. You're fucking with your children's lives here, not just yours. Good fuck you ignorant, thick-shit assclowns anger me.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Rbu5FxD9IUg
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Thats why I love this election, I dont really care about it so I can enjoy it for the entertainment it is. There are good and bad things no matter who wins. If Obama wins then it ensures 8-12 years of Hillary not being able to run. If McCain wins and dies like everyone thinks then Hillary will never be the first woman president. Also, If McCain wins this will be the best liberal freak out ever. You could have months of crying and whining. However, voting for Obama is an automatic get out of racism free card. Other than that whoever wins will be more of the same. Neither party wants to be completely in control since they wouldn't have anyone to blame for nothing getting accomplished. Some bills will get passed to look like something is being done but its all for show.
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-You include Obama's middle name whenever you mention him
-You mock the term "community organizer" because you heard Palin do it and it sounded like fun
-You mention flag pins
-You mention Jeremiah Wright
-You mention the Weather Underground
-You use "maverick" not to comment on the overuse of the word "maverick" but because you actually think it's a good descriptive term for McCain and Palin -
I hope he gets elected. You deserve eachother. Really!
Fucking tools. -
Sep 15, 2008 9:54:01 AM CDT
WHEN I WATCH OBAMA SPEAK IT'S LIKE LISTENING TO JESUS
by bringingsexyback
I'm not kidding.
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I thought Daniel Craig was pants but talkbacks (and Yackbacker) convinced me he's tits.
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I don't know if you are even reading anymore, but I had a good discussion with you. And you are right, such a sober and unemotional political discussion is rare here and most other places too. I have to say that you made some very good points, and I agree that if those Palin facts that you stated are true, it doesnt reflect well on their platform. I am not ready to change my mind yet, but I was listening. I am not an independant, but I am open to learning the opposing view. Normally I hear the liberal viewpoint through very unconvincing and simplistic "discussion". You gave very detailed and logical arguments, that still may or may not be true- I will have to find out, but I am used to very lame arguments in the media, and it is ussually completely unconvincing. Anyway, I would like to finally hear a convincing reason why I should vote for Obama- and I mean an intelligent well thought out reason like King_Midas would give, not the typical boring mantra. As someone who knows a lot about Obama and has followed him closely for a couple years now, please give me a comprehensive explanation of what he is going to do in office, and why that will make a positive overall difference for the main issues.
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I really believe that Obama will win. Despite the hoopla that the announcing Palin as a running mate caused. Check her background, check her policies, if she is ever in charge there will be another world war. McCain just completely disappointed me. Not just with the horribly petty ad campaigns; he has gone from rogue independent, to extreme right wing in a matter of months. I disagreed with a lot of his ideals/policies before, but I always admired him. Now he just makes me feel sick.
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Rather than settling for whatever regurgitations and outlines you might get from the posters here, you'd do better to go to Obama's web site and look under "Issues" if you want to know what he intends to do.
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Sep 15, 2008 10:38:26 AM CDT
I guarantee almost everyone on her praising McCain...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...is full of shit. They're just trying to piss people off and have some fun. No way in hell
are people who are online all the fucking time, with this much access to information-- going to vote McCain. Its just not possible. People are stupid....but not THAT stupid. -
If you seriously think that Jeremiah Wright or Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground are not serious topics when discussing Obama then you are an incredibly blind follower. Basically what you are saying we should not discuss any of Barack Obama's skeletons in the closet. His skeletons are huge. We are all trying to figure out if he is the person he says he is. Anybody in the country could change his persona and go campaign for president, and pretend to be someone they aren't, and pretend to have values they don't have. This is why we look so closely at Obama and his past, and his friends, and his previous activities. If you look at the same for my life, you will have a very good idea of who I am. I believe that is true of everyone, including of coure Barack Hussein Obama (I included the Hussein part to get you worked up, just laugh it off). Jeremiah Wright is very closely connected to Obama, and he has a very potent oppinion on both United States and white people. He is of course welcome to that oppinion, and so is Obama if he shares it. But if Obama does share that oppinion, I want to know before I vote for him for president. It is also relevant how closely associated Obama is with Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers bombed several places in United States including the Pentagon Fort Dix, as well as others. Then recently it seemed Bill Ayers made the big push that got started the Obama campaign. And Bill Ayers was quoted immediately before Sept. 11 2001, how he didnt regret the bombings and how he didnt feel he did enough. If a terrorist like Bill Ayers all of a sudden made a push to have Barack Obama become president, I'd like to know exactly why. That is most definately relevant to this discussion one way or another. But perhaps you just want Barack Obama to be president so incredibly bad, that no skeleton in his closet will phase you. I ask anyone who supports Obama, if you haven't spent some serious research learning about Obama's relationship with Wright and Ayers, consider now how obsessed with getting Obama elected you are. You seriously can't ignore that stuff outright. Even if it turns out to be innocent- you need to find out. These are not minor details. But perhaps if you are a person who has similar skeletons, maybe this isnt a big deal to you.
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Yeah, you're right, we do deserve McCain. But I'm still hoping he loses because I don't want to live under his regime for however long he lasts, much less under the far worse one that would succeed him when he croaks. It's human nature to try to avoid getting what we deserve.
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OK fine I will do that. So far I haven't heard him personally describe any plans very convincingly, so I havent thought his website would be more elequent. I do like a few things he promised to make happen. I like that he promises universal healthcare. I like that he promises to reward companies that keep jobs in the US. I like that he promises to cut taxes on the bottom 95% of americans. And now I am going to say something nasty, forgive me- the cold hearted part of me that doesnt really care about the fate of the Iraqis likes the promise Obama makes to bring the troops home soon. However, I do care about the Iraqis more than that, so I dont really like that promise. Ok Dave, I will go to his site. I want to know exactly how he is going to do all these things, and why these are going to be possible. I'm don't think he is specific enough in person to convince me of these things.
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Remember John Kerry and Al Gore...
I'm glad neither of them won, but I really like this Obama guy over McCain and Palin.
Palin's got a lot of Botox work in that face. Hard to read any real emotions when looking at it. Making it very hard to trust what she says, since her face gives no tells. She's mastered the look at the center of the eyebrow area of her interviewers. Her eyes don't catch/follow their eye motions when these interviewers move their eyes. This is a trick my dad taught me to intimidate people and lie if I need to save my own ass.
She's pretty slick with her words and she seems too gleeful when talking badly about the Bama. I hate women who relish in talking badly about other people. Practically getting off on it.
The one thing that gets me though, about this pick a winner to run the country stuff. Why are these guys always so rich and well off... Were is the average guy who represents the majority of us blue collars here. Why do these guys hire other people to write their speeches. How can I believe in anything they say when they are reading someone else's words. Until that guy or woman comes out and runs. I'm going to stay at home, but If I voted it would be for Obama. -
by Lost Jarv Sep 15th, 2008
03:48:29 AM
complete cunt.
You vile piece of human flotsam, do us all a favour and fuck off.
wow, disagree with me fine, how about trying to type something relevant in response, seems like you can only write insults and even then only once; try using the lob of meat on your shoulders called a head and respond with wit and humor, if you haven't noticed I respond only with insults when they are thrown my way, repeatedly I might add before I respond in kind so get off your high horse and smell what your shoveling
You fracking coward -
Yeah, the upcoming Canadian election is a bit fucked but if you think it's even remotely as bad as the US one - let alone worse - please stay home during it as I don't want your obviously uniformed vote cancelling mine.You seem to envy the Americans and that's good because if Stephen Harper gets in we really will be on our way to being the 51st state. Our problem is that we have four parties splitting the left vote and only one for the right.
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Right we are such idiots, we should be smart like you and tune into the Daily Show to make an informed decision that will affect our childrens lives. Well I have been reading many of these posts and I can see that people are indeed relying on the Daily Show to stay informed- I know because I recognize specific quotes and arguments from that rock solid program. How about listen to a little of everyone- including FoxNews and Rush whom you probably avoid like the plague. I agree that they represent the conservative viewpoint, but that is the least we can get in an entire media dedicated to the election of Barack Obama. If you never listen to an opposing point of view, of course you are going to vote democrat- the media people are experts at manipulating you. They repeat myths about republicans to you over and over again until it is part of your personal code.
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What "myths" would those be?
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obama for president 67,900,000
mccain for president 40,300,000
snakes on a plane 4,710,000
aint it cool news 551,000 -
living up to your name I see. This is talkback. Grow a set of balls and don't start crying like a little bitch when you get picked up for your blazingly cretinous revolting post. And by the way, asspiece, there is nothing that keeps politicians from passing "bad" laws (define this, please) and certainly not guns. The fact that you are such a stereotypical NRA card carrying redneck isolationist tool that you think that your beloved gun keeps democracy intact is beyond laughable. For your information, aside from flaming your crushingly ignorant post, I provided 2 pieces of relevant TB- the vanity fair reference and an explanation as to why the rest of the world cares about this election. So go back to beating off over guns and ammo or Soldier of Fortune or whatever the fuck it is, and be thankful that you live in a country where you are allowed access to a firearm, despite having a similar IQ to a brick.
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Sep 15, 2008 11:02:13 AM CDT
SAMUS - HALF OF BILL O'REILLY'S AUDIENCE IS LIBERALS
by bringingsexyback
Do you know what you're talking about? Ever?
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I am glad you asked, thank you HoboCode... Conservatives are racist, Conservatives are sexist, Conservatives hate gays, Conservatives hate foreigners, Conservatives don't care about the poor, Black Conservatives are Uncle Toms, Conservatives love war, Flyover country Conservatives are stupid
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Tell me if you don't think one of these is true
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Samus, if you think the beliefs of Obama's former pastor, whom Obama has since repudiated, are relevant to Obama's candidacy, then surely so are the views of Palin's current Pentecostal church and minister, which believes the world is likely to end at any moment due to the intervention of a supernatural being, a prophecy which they hope to actively bring about by manipulating world events to conform to these prophecies as closely as possible. These are people who believe their policy decisions are based on some direct understanding of the will of God. As such, it's impossible for them to make a secular decision based solely on reason or pragmatism. It's impossible to maintain the separation of church and state if your every deed is a religious one.Maybe you're okay with all that, I don't know. It worries me a little more than Obama's former minister being pissed at Whitey.As for Bill Ayers, thanks to you I've looked into this. I'm not concerned about Obama's peripheral connection to a guy who committed his crimes when Obama was a child. I see no evidence that Obama is Ayer's pupil in domestic terrorism, any more than I believe that Don Rumsfeld's former paling around with Saddam Hussein means Rumsfeld is likely to start nerve gassing his neighbors.
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Well that is good. I've heard that before. It sounds like a group of liberals who keep themselved informed with a balanced set of voices. I am not discouraging them at all. I am not suggesting that if they listen to all points of view that they will definately turn conservative. Only they will know better what is going on, and the discussion will be more logical. Why do you think I don't ever know what I am talking about? Am I saying something that seems so ill informed?
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That's a very narrow point of view.
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I haven't heard her repudiate them yet.
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Yeah, Samus, I don't think Obama has been super specific about many of his policy discussions yet when he's on the tube. The same is true of McCain. When pressed by Barbara Walters on some talk show recently to specify exactly what kind of "reform" he and Palin intended to enact, he was unable to say a thing other than sputter reform, reform, reform. Reform everything! Not very impressive.
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Well I am glad that you looked into Bill Ayers- though I am suprised that you have never looked into him before. Your comments from before suggested that you are well informed- how did Bill Ayers slip past you. Well you may decide that the Ayer's connection isn't strong enough, but I urge you to look even closer before you truly decide that. Take a closer look than the ten minutes it's been since you started researching it. It sort of sounds like you read a pro-Obama argument for why the Ayer's connection isn't a big deal. I say that based on your phrasing "a guy who committed his crimes when Obama was a child". As far as if I think Obama's pastor is relevant despite the fact that he repudiated him, let me point out how rediculous that thinking is. A presidential canidate disowns an association of his who is highly controversial. Did he disown him because he all of a sudden contrasts his values? Or did he disown him because he was hurting his campaign? Tell me you are smart enough to know the answer to that one. We don't know the mind of Obama, but we have some common sense, please use it. In fact Obama stopped going to that church when he started his presidential campaign- why? Well let me theorize, though it doesn't require too much thinking. He knew ahead of time how that church and their rhetoric would not go over well with the american people in large. He seems to be aware of how nasty his church is, but continued faithfully to attend until it didn't jive with his political aspirations. As for whether or not this makes Palin's church minister relevant, it is. I am aware of Pentacostal religion, and I think I find it disturbing that she is pentacostal. The views that her church may have, and that if she attends, I agree she must have them as well, are not anywhere near as disturbing as Jeremiah Wrights points of view. I think you have exaggerated her church's beliefs when you say that they believe policy decisions are based on understanding the will of God- please dont do that. And when you mention a "Supernatural Being" you are talking about God, why didn't you keep it simple and use that word- it's a lot easier to type and more accurate- however it doesn't sound as creepy as the description you used for effect. Anyway, my point is, yes her church is just as relevant as his church. Bring it on. In a battle of Crazy church vs. Crazy church, Obama's wins EVERY time.
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Yeah I agree. McCain has not been specific either. Trust me, this isn't a fun year of politics for me exactly. I am worried about the value of my home, and other economic issues, and I just want the best man for the job. If I can be convinced that Obama is the best man for the job- I am voting for him, trust me. Right now I am not so sure. Oh, another myth about conservatives, we are all closed minded.
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Has major implications for the rest of the world. Financially and politically and to a lesser degree Militarily. There are some who dont give a flying fuck about about the rest of the world. or what happens to it. There is a wider world outside america. the rest of the world is holding its breath to see who assumes the office of the most important and powerful office in the world. Gordon Brown said he prefered obama and McCain was furious. McCain seems to be more of an isolationist then bush. to the point where he doesnt want to hear who other world leaders think should or would like to be leader. Having a miliarist as a leader is not a good idea. Stalin, hitler and the list goes on. Is America heading down that road? Everyone in the world cares what happens in the US. even if americans dont care about what people in the rest of the world think. or dont care what happens in the US>
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I hope you are just trying to be a wiseass.
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In a battle of crazy preachers Hagee wins easily with that and many other pieces of lunacy.
Pastor Hagee has a whole lot more crazy in the tank than merely that batshit insane opinion.
Yet McCain not only saught him out and tried for months to get his endorsement but held a press conference greeting the endorsement warmly and did not finally reject the Endorsement till well after many of his crazy opinions had been highlighted.
In fact McCain recieved endorsement from another Religious Right moonunit Parsley whom he also had to disavow and reject the endorsement of.
So that's 2 crazy preachers to Obamas 1. And Hagee WILL get wheeled out if McCain is foolish enough to try the cheap smearing of Obama by association.
Were I McCain I would be far more worried about his clear and present connection to Bush and the Republicans than trying to stir up fear with these peripheral characters. -
Why must you compare McCain to Hitler and Stalin? Here is another example you convenienly left out, Eisenhower. The constant comparison of Republicans to Nazis and their leaders to Hitler ends up with an undesirable effect that you may not be aware of. It waters down the negative image of Nazis and Hitler. They were damn bad people, but kids growing up nowadays might not really realize that. When a little kid hears people constantly comparing Bush to Hitler, the kid will think, oh Hitler wasn't that bad, he just was some unpoplular politician who poorly managed an unpopular war 60 years ago. So go ahead and use up your Hitler card, eventually Hitler will be watered down and benign, and who knows what negative consequences it has when an entire new generation grows up unaware of how evil the nazis were. Good job dems.
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If Obama had merely been endorsed by Wright, I certainly wouldn't care. That is a big difference there, and you should know that.
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And when you compare Republicans to Nazis, kids will think, "Oh, I see, Nazis were kind of like republicans who don't support reperations, big deal"
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Sep 15, 2008 11:55:40 AM CDT
IF BARRY LOOKED MORE LIKE DEREK JETER OR VIN DIESEL
by bringingsexyback
Would that have made a difference? I think so. Sadly.
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Show me a media source where these "myths" were repeated. But either way if it walks like a duck...
Conservatives are racist
Don't support affirmative action which would help people of color gain higher status in society. You can bitch about AA being racist itself if you like but it'll just make you look like a jerk.
Conservatives are sexist
Don't support a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body; didn't support the Equal Rights Ammendment
Conservatives hate gays
Don't believe in same-sex marriage or even same-sex civil unions in many cases.
Conservatives hate foreigners
Want to be either isolationist or impose our culture upon foreigners; refer to France and Germany as Old Europe; "Freedom Fries."
Conservatives don't care about the poor
Tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans; Won't even support social security tax on incomes over $102,000.
Black Conservatives are Uncle Toms
They support policies through association that harm the poor who are frequently Black.
Conservatives love war
Could have fooled me. We're fighting two preemptive wars right now; "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."
Flyover country Conservatives are stupid
See above.
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...I'd probably abstain from voting in the presidential election. Her and McCain have pretty similiar policies.
But Barack has done something amazing; he's actually made Hillary Clinton look reasonable by comparison. He's such a hard core socialist radical (even having radical mad bombers and race baiters as friends and mentors), that Hillary looks like a reasonable human being when standing next to him. Incredible. I never thought I'd say it, because I grew up hating the Clintons with every fiber of my being.
The fact that Obama has actually pushed me to McCain is also quite striking; I was considering not voting for him in the general because of his past antipathy to his party and his support for things like campaign finance reform and amnesty for illegals.
However, Obama is a dangerous man who has shown that he has little to no judgement of character. His list of friends and associates is a garden of unsavory characters (Ayers, Rezko, Wright, Pfleger, Frank Marshall Davis, etc.).
Even IF (and this is a big if) I believed in some of Obama's policies, I'd still probably not support him. Being President means being able to delegate duties and appoint people who are competent, reliable, and of good character. Obama has shown that he is absolutely incapable of this.
Do any of you guys here actually pay capital gains taxes? Do you seriously want taxation on your investments to go up? Does it make you feel confident when Obama says that he'd raise capital gains taxes, even if it meant less federal revenue, because he wants to promote "fairness"? Do any of you Obama supporters understand how insane that is? Probably not.
Obama is a political Rorshack test; people see what they want to. They project their hopes and ideology on his very blank slate.
The good new is that it's do or die for the Democrats here. Your Congress, who has a 9% approval rating, and your candidate, whom you didn't vet properly, might sink what should have been a sure thing this year.
If you can't win this year, with an unpopular incumbant president and respect for the Republican at an all time low, when can you win?
We Republicans can afford to lose this one. When Obama runs the economy into a depression with corporate, cap gains, and personal wealth tax increases, we'll be able to ride in and lobby for a return to the free market and away from the statist Carter-style policies of the President Obama; it'll be 1980 all over again in 2012. However, if you Democrats lose this one, I'm afraid it's lights out for a long, long time. -
Sep 15, 2008 12:07:04 PM CDT
If Barack were White, he wouldn't be in the running...
by theghostwholurks
One video of a White candidate's 20-year pastor ranting "God Damn America" would've put him in the political grave LONG ago. And then finding out that he associated with domestic terrorists who proudly bombed the Capital and Pentagon? AND he's subsequently praised and cheered by a crowd of hundreds of thousands of Germans when he visits???C'mon... Barack Obama should thank GOD every night he was born as dark as he was, because if he WERE White, a background like that would destroy any chances of a first-term Senator like him ever attaining high office.
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Sep 15, 2008 12:16:12 PM CDT
The Ghost Who Lurks, and if JFK were white, he wouldn't have ran
by irrelevntelefant
cause of his lack of experience and limited time in the senate...
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Sep 15, 2008 12:17:24 PM CDT
and if Barack were white and a lipstick wearing female...
by irrelevntelefant
hell, he couldn't even get nominated VP...
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Sep 15, 2008 12:17:36 PM CDT
Course I believe you Samus. I mean WHO would care ? Republicans
by g100
So if Obama had been caught getting endorsed warmly by someone who thought the Holocaust was Gods divine will, that Katrina was punishment from God on New Orleans, that Catholicism was a "great whore", then Republicans would of course merely have shrugged their shoulders and said "not important" ???
There's nothing far fetched about that scenario at all.
Others may say it's splitting hairs to complain about one crazy preachers opinions but dismiss anothers because McCain only ACTIVELY SAUGHT HIM OUT FOR ENDORSEMENT.
He didn't just fall into a press conference and there was crazy John Hagee who just happened to endorse him while he was there. He had months to vet and scrutinise Hagee and Parsley yet didn't seem to care about their crazy so desperate was he for a Religious Right boost.
Endorsement means Endorsement. If you think the views of Preachers who have now somehow become a crucial test for a candidates fitness to be President then Hagee is completely valid for McCain as Wright is for Obama. They are connected.
I myself doubt the wisdom of judging candidatesb on the views of Preachers who are associated with them rather than the candidates own views. But if that is how far the discourse has fallen then McCains choice of Pastor is entirely relevant. It speaks to McCains judgement and that judgement is poor. -
A jerky political debate on a website that talks about movies, video games and comic books. The internet is such a wonderful waste of time.
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"One video of a White candidate's 20-year pastor ranting "God Damn America" would've put him in the political grave LONG ago."
Funny. Palin's pastor delivered a sermon entitled "God is Going to Strike Out His Hand Against America" and no one batted an eye. -
So what's your excuse?
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You still have something against Germany?
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Since we're now devoting this thread to rude and retarded renaming of the candidates, I figure I'll get my ban today. Im sure the guys who are throwing the juvenile slurs McCain's way wont be banned, tho. This site has already shown that you can say/do whatever you want as long as you tow the correct line.
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There was a secret order given to raid hitlers bunker and bring its contents to the United States. After the contents were Brought back to the United States by a senior military General. They were placed in Harvard University and the Skull and Bones Society was born. Amongst the people who went through this society Were George Bush Snr, John Kerry, George Bush. It is a society where only the well groomed and the super rich get in and are groomed for poltical power. The Skull and bones has some connection to the CIA. But some members of the nazis became members of Fianna Fail.
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Creatures with no soul (like Mr. McCain) are fair game.
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Joe Kennedy's wealth and influence had his sons' prominence in politics in the bag before they were even born.
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You got any video to back your claim and put Palin's pastor in context, as well as a long history of making similar comments, as we do with Jeremiah Wright?Unless you do, you're simply blowing smoke.
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Do you actually believe that? A secret American raid? Into Hitler's bunker? The most closely guarded construction in Soviet-occupied Berlin?
Oh, please... -
U know his work as a community organizer for ACRON hooked me up with a few voter registrations. Some live, some not so much. But hell, in Chicago we don't worry about things like that we just keep adding to the demonrat count.
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I am aware of skull and bones, and I really don't care for fraternaties like that. They are obnoxious ways of networking and they make the efforts of normal people to make a difference in the world even more difficult. However, I don't understand what your point on it was since you are trying to link nazis to republicans. You are tenacious.
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After 2 World Wars, tens of millions dead and the Third Reich's attempt to eliminate anyone who wasn't blond and blue-eyed on the the planet, I would think ANYONE with common sense would be "interested" in whom the Germans support in terms of being "a good leader."
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ground, people get fearful and they turn to the person who is the strong leader. McCain is an ex-marine. He is a war hero. He has a lot of anger, he is a very bitter man. Hitler and stalin were also very angry men. who used that anger to climb to power but then to dismantle their countries bit by bit. Read Hitler by Ian Kershaw. and Stalin the biography by Simon Sebag Montifore. also Mao The unknown Story by Jung Chang.
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You forgot to mention that Skull and Bones stole Geronimo's remains...Bastards.
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Again, HoboLoad demonstrates what a complete moron he is.
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No one gives a fuck you shitbag!
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That wasn't my line numbnuts.
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Actually, I read about Ayers from a neutral source which discussed the man and then alluded to his remote connection to Obama. I have the feeling that any source which didn't damn Obama for knowing this guy would automatically be suspiciously pro-Obama in your eyes. The timeline involved is a simple matter of fact, not of bias or interpretation. My further reading on the subject does nothing to indicate more than the most tenuous connection between the two men. I can well believe that Obama shares Ayer's view that the Vietnam war was a travesty (I do too). The notion that means Obama is also a likely terrorist bomber (if that's the implication) is hysteria.
As for the Pentacostal worldview:"Palin also said "God's will has to be done" in building a natural gas pipeline in the state, and said government functions won't "do any good if the people of Alaska's heart isn't right with God."Her pastor in Wasilla: "It quoted Pastor David Pepper of the Church on the Rock, a charismatic church she attended in Wasilla before running for governor, as saying: "The purpose for the United States is ... to glorify God. This nation is a Christian nation."So yes, I believe such people make their decisions based on the perceived will of God. I said "supernatural being" instead of Jesus because it doesn't matter to me whether it's God or the Great Pumpkin, prophecies of supernatural events aren't a fit basis for policy decisions. So we'll have to disagree on which crazy pastors are the most dangerous.I expect Wright's head was puffing up due to all the attention he was getting, making it necessary for Obama to ditch him for political reasons as you stated. I note that Palin has seen no reason to distance herself from her own crazy religion. She knows her supporters are in favor of crazy religions. Obama's are not, and he knows that too. No doubt Obama would have stayed with Wright if all this hadn't come up. But I think he could have done that without agreeing with every offensive thing the man ever said or believed. Wright can't be all bad. I'm sure even Palin's pastor would refrain from running me over with his car, heathen progressive that I am.Finally, if you want this discussion to continue, you're going to have to tone down the patronizing attitude a little. Questioning my intelligence when I don't see things your way is not going to be productive for you.
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I'm not a republican or a conservative and I'll be voting for Obama, but drawing parallels between McCain and the three worst mass murderers in history is, at best, simply moronic, and at worst, immensely dangerous.
It's like when porn haters try to equate regular porn with kiddie porn in an attempt to paint an image of regular porn as being just as abusive and degrading to the participants. What they do instead is dilute the true heinousness of kiddie porn. It's a cheap, loathsome way way to score political points. -
As if you don't agree with it.
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So are you saying that Germans in the present hold those very same ideals or beliefs that Hitler and his ilk did?
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Pretty much.
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"living up to your name I see. This is talkback. Grow a set of balls and don't start crying like a little bitch when you get picked up for your blazingly
cretinous revolting post. "
Care to single out which post dear sir? I have put several just here
This is besides the fact that I have evoked an emotional response from you I would at least like to know which speech set off the morons
Seems ANYTHING I say is going to piss you off; again not problem with that I certainly hope it does
As my intention was conversation provoking discussion
Have you thought of having therapy? It might do you some good. Clearly you have anger issues
Oh and also a response to this
"There is nothing that keeps politicians from passing "bad" laws (define this, please)
OK just for an example Revolutionary war, Limeys decided to pass laws that we could no longer stomach so they got SHOT, similar to the civil war that had more disastrous results for the south; the price of not being on the moral high ground (should never have allowed people to own people for any reason) so far there has not been another uprising here in the States, but you can bet EVERY politico has that in the back of their mind when they make broad changes to laws that effect everyone.
as for the "The fact that you are such a stereotypical NRA card carrying redneck isolationist tool "comment, it seems you sir are very much a racist here to even use that as a canned response, I am merely speaking my mind; and as for having an IQ equal to a brick try this one on for size, my name also implies to my Job.
So sorry you silly burke for once again showing your ignorance is equal to your arrogance and your IQ is not as holier than thou as your portend
My IQ is high enough to know I don't know everything; it is certainly high enough to not worry about some socialist wanker sitting sipping chi-tea in your euro briefs slapping your dolphin to the latest Obama election posters.
Good day to you lackey
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Let's just say that the Germans are among the LAST group of people whose opinions I'd look to, in choosing our next President.
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So then what was your fucking point in saying that it wasn't your line?
Cretin. -
I think people should know everything about the person they are voting for. and believe that he or she should be challeneged and questioned about certain things. Like was McCain a member of the Endtimers. I read an article about a meeting of these people and McCain was present. and I would equally ask tough questions about obama. The media should not be gagged. by either party. I have seen this to often in my own country. last year, the media were warned not to ask bertie aherne about his finances. that is a public interest thing. The media Carried on asking questions and those in the media who were loyal to aherne, got really angry about what they percieved as the liberal Irish medias bullying of aherne. everyone on this talkback should know who they are voting for. I am irish and I cant vote in the US election. Americans should be informed. and if they are not. america is in deep trouble.
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Sep 15, 2008 1:23:09 PM CDT
i'm just amused how much time you all are willing to waste
by irrelevntelefant
arguing the same talking points over and over (and over and over) with people who are not going to change their position no matter what you say regardless of who wins, 4 years from now the side that loses this time will be telling us how we are even worse off than we were with Bush, and the side that wins will be telling us we are better off (regardless of what actually happens)
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Sep 15, 2008 1:28:18 PM CDT
I AM VOTING FOR PALIN / MCWHATSHISNAME AND HERE'S WHY ...,
by bringingsexyback
I like bitching on AICN. 4 more years!!!@!
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Just that I wouldn't use that phrase per se. And to make you look like the dumbdick you are.
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"God is gonna deal with all the inhabitants of the earth. He is gonna strike out His hand against, yes, Wasilla; and Alaska; and the United States of America. There's no exceptions here -- there's none. It's all.... "It's so very possible that God, instead of responding by granting spiritual renewal and sustained prosperity could just as easily...it's conceivable that He could just as easily, for example, raise up a revived, prosperous and powerful Communist Russia with a web of alliances across the Middle East. And our gas pumps would go dry. The dollar would collapse. And the markets would crash. The kayak could go upside down. And it could happen in a matter of weeks. That could happen. It could happen by this fall." - Larry Kroon, Wasilla Bible Church
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You guys really make my day ...
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So would you have rather he been booed off the stage there? I'm not sure I see how that would influence your opinion one way or another. It seems to me the bigger issues you have with Obama are his associations with certain people, and apparently you think he's using the race card and that has enabled him to have a get-out-of-jail-free-card from the before mentioned associations.
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that people could think the way Palin's pastor does. It's like the modern era just completely skipped over Wasilla. Jesus Christ.
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That's what happens when you indoctrinate people from an early age to believe a medieval book is the infallible truth and put them in an isolated community.
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I'd rather he'd not gone to such great lengths to try to gather an enormous crowd to speak to, in the first place. It shows an extraordinary ego and bizarre need for adulation from another country when it's the AMERICAN people he needs to win over.Even Germany's own leaders were perplexed why Obama felt the need to want to address Germans on such a large public stage, when he's only a candidate, NOT the President.This is simply one other thing, in addition to his other "issues," which he's been given a "pass" on politically, while it would have likely sunk a White candidate.
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Sep 15, 2008 2:08:41 PM CDT
TheGhostWhoLurks -- I do agree with the ego thing....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
..I think he has a large one. But who the fuck wouldn't in that situation?
McCain....what the fuck has he ever done? Been shot down, locked in a tiger cage, cheated on a paralyzed wife......if you're going personal. There are some good reasons to support the guy!! True heroes end up in cages! -
Palin's Project List Totals $453 Million
McCain Campaign
Says Record Shows
Drop in Requests
By LAURA MECKLER and JOHN R. WILKE
Wall Street Journal
September 15, 2008; Page A5
Last week, Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, hadn't sought earmarks or special-interest spending from Congress, presenting her as a fiscal conservative. But state records show Gov. Palin has asked U.S. taxpayers to fund $453 million in specific Alaska projects over the past two years.
These projects include more than $130 million in federal funds that would benefit Alaska's fishing industry and an additional $9 million to help Alaska oil companies. She also has sought $4.5 million to upgrade an airport on a Bering Sea island that has a year-round population of less than 100.
Gov. Sarah Palin sought more than $130 million in federal funds for the Alaskan fishing industry.
Sen. McCain has made the battle against earmarks and wasteful spending a centerpiece of his campaign. He has never sought earmarks for his state of Arizona and vows to veto pork-barrel spending bills that come to his desk as president, saying these projects should go through normal budget review. And he derides the argument that states often make: that they're funding important projects.
"If they're worthy projects they can be authorized and appropriated in a New York minute," he explained on his campaign bus earlier this year, before Gov. Palin joined the ticket. "If they're worthy projects I know they'd be funded."
During an appearance Friday on ABC's "The View," Sen. McCain said Gov. Palin shared his views, and hasn't sought congressional earmarks. "Not as governor she hasn't," he said.
In fact, in the current fiscal year, she is seeking $197 million for 31 projects, the records show. In the prior year, her first year in office, she sought $256 million for dozens more projects ranging from research on rockfish and harbor-seal genetics to rural sanitation and obesity prevention.
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I would think if they didn't, they wouldn't ever run for president.
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The very moment you come to the conclusion that you yourself, are the most capable person alive-- to run this country is the birth of a massive ego. How could you not have an ego with that much self confidence?
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First thing, he went to Europe to bolster his foreign credentials. He met with heads of state and other dignataries. It was in direct response to Republicans saying he had little foreign policy experience. So, he goes to Europe, and then what? The Republicans beat up on him for being popular! Wow. The horror. An American popular in Europe. Secondly, the crowds came out to see Obama. If they did not want to see him, they would not have come. Foreigners have no say in this election, nor should they, but foreign policy certainly does. Reagan was popular, Kennedy was popular. It is far easier to gain Europeans help on trade issues when you have good relations with them.
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Sep 15, 2008 2:17:26 PM CDT
yeah-- that airport thing is fucking hilarious
by dannyglovers_dickblood
They get 3 flights per month!! And the tax payers in Alaska had to foot some enormous bill for it.
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I am kind of enjoying Nodes and Doc's mini showdown for the creativity in twisting the other's screen name.
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Per BSB's post above, how do you feel about these apparently blatant lies from Palin and McCain about her not accepting earmarks? Are you worried that McCain has succumbed to the Christian Right by taking on Palin as his VP?And I think this is very pertinent since it has been a major theme of which McCain has run on: cutting out the pork in spending. I'm also very worried that if McCain is elected, she's right behind him. She certainly doesn't seem very fiscally responsible to me, and with McCain at 72....It's much more feasible for Palin to step in than Biden if Obama were to be elected.
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And if it's McCain it'll be a racist-money-whore cocksmoking warmonger.
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Do you know what a non sequitur is? Well, you should probably look it up before you post, jackhole.
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I feel kinda excluded - no one's called me Bringing[InsultingWord]Back in a long time ...
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That is because you have mellowed since getting married. Damn shame dude. Maybe you need your ol' bud Morbid to wake to restoke the fire!
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Always keeps popcorn handy just in case...hee hee Fire stokin Fred
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...once you admitted to being brokebackcowboy, I felt no more need to call you anything else but BSB. At this rate we'll be opening respective embassies before long!
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What the hell happened to Morbid? Maybe he finally found a boyfriend on Craigslist? Praise be!!!
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... then McCain will die and Palin will start World War 3 in order to bring about her desired armageddon. Palin is a hideous fucking joke of a human being in my humble opinion. Why do all christian fundamentalists go for that unblinking eyes brain damaged look? 2012: Palin/Phelps.
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Just a few days ago I had a reconciliation with 900lbgorilla. I can't begin to describe the feeling of warmth that ran through my loins.
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You are both taking a risk invoking such names - especially in a political TB. Although I know how much Fred loves watching the carnage and eating popcorn!
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Sep 15, 2008 2:47:25 PM CDT
TOADKILLER - WELL, IT WOULD'VE BEEN, SHALL WE SAY, ENTERTAINING
by bringingsexyback
to have Morbid around during this Lehman / AIG meltdown. He's 1 of 3 people on the planet who still thinks the economy is fine. The other 2 being Bush and McCain ...
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With the waterboarder? Damn....
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Where did you get the funds to build those bridges? Be honest.
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...with 900LBGorilla didn't include a bridge to Torture Town.
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It was total carnage. Yes, Morbie would have been a good whipping boy. But no one, will top Brane. There are wanna be's around, but they are just nitwits. I do not even feel the urge to smite them because they are so pathetic it is a waste of time. I just laugh, shake my head, and wait for the return of the truly demented.
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...Strabbo's a reptard.
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This just in:You. Don't. Matter.
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I didn't really mean to be patronizing. I don't think less of you just because you don't agree with me. I'll try not to talk like that.
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Granted, I bribed Gorilla with a cyber-Heineken but I got him to call Bush a shithead. That's progress!
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They create jobs! Lets all go work at Wal-Mart! Because of those tax cuts, they just opened 1 million new stores! Shitty jobs with low wages! Shitty products at low prices! They just put dozens of small businesses in the area out of business and prevented anyone from competing or trying to start they're own businesses. But you won't need to start a business or work at one, because you can work at Wal-Mart!
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REMEMBER THE WORDS OF SISTER PALIN. THIS IS GOD'S WAR!! PRAY FOR MORE DEAD BROWN SKINS!!
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Thanks, I appreciate that.
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he comes it over from the lobe...
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"This year will not be a year of politics as usual. It can be a year of inspiration and hope, and it will be a year of concern, of quiet and sober reassessment of our nation's character and purpose. It has already been a year when voters have confounded the experts. And I guarantee you that it will be the year when we give the government of this country back to the people of this country. There is a new mood in America. We have been shaken by a tragic war abroad and by scandals and borken promises at home. Out people are searching for NEW voices and NEW ideas and NEW leaders."Great speech, no? Really hits us where we live.Hm? Obama? No, no...Jimmy Carter said this back in 1976. So much for Obama being an agent of change. He's spouting 30 year-old ideas.McCain/Palin 2008 :)
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If your really struggling with the prospect of a 'nigguh' in the Whitehouse, put down your KKK outfit for a moment and think of it this way. First off the name - Barack...sounds a bit weird, don't it? Try calling him Barry instead. Next, don't look at him as black...don't even try mixed race..nope, try 'tanned'. Yeah, that's right he's just got a really great tan, okay? That helping? I sincerely hope all of my advice helps to wipe the sweat from the brow of middle America during this testing time for you.
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Funny, McCain has pretty much said the exact same thing. Hell, he's even snagged Obama's message of change. But more importantly, have you bother to see the type of campaign McCain's been running here lately? I didn't know "maverick" stood for bald-face lying hypocrite.
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Harry...if McCain gives you a tax cut, can you put in an edit feature, Big Guy? Pretty Please?
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Take that non sequitur and shove it up your dickhole.
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Showing how he's more bipartisan than the "Great Unifier" Senator Obama.
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And guess who the witches are today. I'll give you a hint. DannyGloversDickBlood just called out an accusation, and now so did 69Dude. There are several such accusations throughout this whole thread. As far as I know, I might get accused just for pointing this out.
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A recent survey said that 15% of American would not vote for a black president. That's a disgustingly high number in this day and age, and those criminally racist neanderthals need to be ironed out. What place do they really have in the 21st century? None.
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And those are only the ones that admitted it. We gott problems people. SERIOUS problems.
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Can someone just take a few minutes to explain why anyone would vote for these two? Please, I really need to know. McCain's campaign has been completely void of any substance, and has relied on insults, lies and smears to get where it is now. McCain has no plan to speak of, and never mentions the issues facing the country. Palin certainly grabbed the headlines, but the Stepford Wife is also just as clueless. Her 'experience' has been exposed as being just more lies. So tell me, why are they ahead in the polls (for whatever that's worth)? Why is America so ready to elect a 72 year old liar, with an inexperienced basket case lined up right behind? Is America really 15% racist and 85% retarded?
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I just followed Gov. Palin's teachings and chanted this is God's War? Where is the witch hunt there?
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Sep 15, 2008 4:13:50 PM CDT
Fred thinks it is because people get comfortable
by freds_balls_in_a_mason_jar
And are afraid or unwilling to take a chance at change. Fred sees that type of thinking almost everyday, in all types of settings. So it is no surprise that it would also effect peoples political thinking as well.
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So America is the ultimate battered housewife who'd rather keep on getting kicked in the tits every night, than take a chance at change and leave...
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yes.
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I sit here and read with great amusement the mundane ramblings of the self knowledgeable. I am no longer scared that the likes of the typical ignorant Amorican are in control over my destiny, that they seek to limit my freedoms, my industry, and my life in pursuit of the "common good"; that the politics of envy and state subsidized lethargy have won out over informed debate and common sense. No, I find it sadly amusing now...that the typical citizen actually thinks there is a speck of difference between these self anointed saviours of "Democracy", that they bvelieve Government control and regulation is prefered over Freedom, and that war, theft, and intolerance is fine and dandy so long as it is "Your guy" doing the marauding so that you see the immediate benefits. It is no wonder that those of us with the means and the forethought are planning our escape from this coming Socialist/Fascist Oligarchy, and in fact from the clutches of the herd that legitimizes it. I doubt many voters can even fathom the workings of Economics or even know there is more than one theory, or that foreign policy should be limited and not in the hands of one man; let alone how robbing the so called "wealthy" to feed the "Children", or sending anonymous soldiers to die in the mountains of some 3rd world country will someday come back to bite their ass right off. No..Americans today are more interested in photo ops, 15sec sound bites, baby pictures, religion, and rhetoric...mostly because they can't understand the deeper subjects, but also because the idiots running for office do not understand them either....The Politics of Photos and bankrupt promises. The again..this has been know for some time, and it really is too bad most Americans are illiterate and never read..instead being fed a steady diet of Pop culture and one sided arguments from a flickering bulb....
Someone far more learned than I wrote the following....
"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.
"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L.Mencken (Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920)
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That's great... "Take that non sequitur and shove it up your dickhole."
What's the matter -- run out of Marxist-Leninist buzzwords? -
Wow...
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...and the forethought are planning our escape from this coming Socialist/Fascist Oligarchy."
Really? So, where are you headed? -
Instead of being "amused" by the state of the country and the tone of its debate, why don't you do something about it instead of "escaping" or offering further "mundane ramblings of the self knowledgeable."Surely, with a name like "conspiracy" you've got some great ideas up your sleeve. No? Didn't think so.
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but in real life I'm voting for Obama. Probably would have gone with Ron Paul if he ever stood a chance.
aabiohazard1972, don't you think America already has enough foreign relationship problems already? Thanks for bringing nothing to the table -
"Democracy is the worship of Jackels by Jackasses" And so true it is..never have I seen such fawning over candidates whose core principals but for the most superficial of ideological rhetorical vote pandering (Taxation, war, regulation, government growth) are essentially the same.
Keep on voting these bastards into office...go right ahead and legitimize the very people who brought you Iraq, the Patriot act, cradle to grave welfare and Corporate bailouts....I'm abstaining from being the clown at the circus. -
Sep 15, 2008 4:43:42 PM CDT
"Personally I wish all of you could vote, period, I think the re
by shan
"Personally I wish all of you could vote, period, I think the results would always be better."
What this means - Polls of the preferred Presidential Candidate in countries other than the US have shown Barack Obama to be the more popular candidate by at least 9% upto 50% or more in a poll over 40+ nations. Basically if the population of the world could vote, the Democrats would win by 10000 miles.
Yes we get it, we don't get to vote, large numbers of Americans don't care what we think - the fact that Senator Obama is far more popular overseas than Senator McCain actually counts as a negative if it were widely public - we get all that.
However, given that what the US does impacts on all of us is probably why we have an opinion and for whatever good it does, we voice it.
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I warned quite some time ago bout these pig in a poke financial "products" causing havoc.
Nice to see McCain has got on board and if heaping scorn and blame for this current financial fuckup on... the President ? The Republicans ?
Not too sure actually and he seems even less so, but he says he's on the side of the workers so that makes perfect sense. -
Y'know, I'm in the UK so unfortunately I can't vote - but if I wake up on Nov 5th, switch on the TV and see McCain grinning back at me...I'm going back to bed. Traditionally, we set off fireworks on Nov 5th, and I might just set some off in the direction of the Whitehouse. See if I can get McCain to start a war with me...you hear me old man? I can take you and your android VP any day..
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It's entirely possible that Palin could be our president. McSame dies of a heart attack from winning and she slides right in like the slim ball she is. Who the fuck then will the VP be...God? Isn't it fucked to think if she did pick God that he would back her for the war to continue and a gas pipeline to be built in Alaska?
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If not in 50 days, then at least within the next 4 years. C'mon, McCain could realistically die within his first term. Of course, all of this could only happen if America votes for them in the first place.
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From what I heard, he was a marine for 6 years. Which is 6 years more than most Republicans (and a lesser number of Democrats probably) combined. He received a citation from President Johnson. He was involved in numerous projects to help the poor of his community.
Yes, he made those "God damn America comments". Somehow how I doubt he spent every minute of twenty years just saying that though, maybe he was talking about other things for 19.999999 of those years.
Also there's the matter of context. Maybe he said that in context about how appallingly poor people are treated by the country as a whole. I bring up context since so many people seem to think it's important when Senator McCain says things like he can see the US in Iraq for 100 years. There's a context apparently which needs further explanation (ie, he means like the situation of US troops in South Korea, Japan and Germany - it's a bad analogy though). If Senator McCain can get the right to explain the context in which he said things (and he should), so should Jeremiah Wright.
Still don't know about that "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" though. Even as a joke, it's not funny. -
Not to Vote for these would be butchers and theives...one who foresees a hundred year occupation of the Middle East; the other who foresees a wider war within Pakistan and Domestic war in the form of Taxation and the creation of a 500,000 man civil security force.
The last Century saw enough waving flags, super patriotism, and brown shirts....I refuse to vote for those who seek to bring those things into the new. -
Sep 15, 2008 5:02:40 PM CDT
John "Keating 5" McCain says more oversight is needed on Wall St
by kazamasmokers
And some of you will buy what he says.
You people are called suckers by the people in power. -
...is it to your secret underground tropical paradise in Antarctica? Or do you folks have a giant space ark? Where's it taking you? The dark side of the moon? Mongo? The planet of the apes?
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My wife and I own some land in the RPI, a small province away from the Power center of Manila, we are going to set up a small business and call it a life. Politicans in the RPI are corrupt liars...just like in the USA but for two important things. 1. They are blatant about it..you know where you stand with a Phillipine official..they simply ask for $ instead of stealing it through taxation, 2. Filipinos know all politicans are corrupt and don't trust any of them, nor look to them for handouts...so the people basically ignore their own government and go about their lives as best they can.
So we plan to leave, unless sanity returns to this country, as soon as possible...our investments are already based in non-dollar holdings as we see bad things for the greenback in the next 20 years due to the ignorant morons in Washington, and our liquid holdings can be put into HK based banks without much trouble. Government is fine so long as it is small, weak and only does those things allowed by the people....but in the USA, the government now tells YOU what to do...The Jester has become the King..and the King doesn't even know it. -
What country do you live in, and how does america and it's policies affect your life? This may sound like a challenge, but I am not challenging you right now. I am genuinely curious. I want to learn how america and it's policies affect people from various other nations. I'd be curious what other talkbackers from other countries have to say as well.
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...you're basically moving to a country which has fully devolved into what you're afraid the United States will become.
Boy, you sure showed them! -
...a spokesperson for the U.S. Consulate in Gothenburg, Sweden, was asked during an unrelated press conference why Swedes and other Europeans should care who's voted in as president, to which he replied:
"Well, because he could melt you all."
Nobody seems to be asking that question any more. -
Higher thoughts demand greater prose, words with weight, meaning and passion behind them. Why write like a simpleton, for instance someone like Bob Orci, on the empty hope that the plebs would understand when you know they can't fathom anything other than cheap bear, boobs, and when their next government handout will arrive? Really...don't you hold yourself to a higher standard than.."I don't like that McBama mutherfucker"?
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...don't knock cheap bear.
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You sound like a dweeb. You should talk like a regular person. Here's something for your intellect to think about, regular people are not stupid, and many times they are much smarter than you sound to be.
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Though the ruler has been described as "a bit of a strongman" and "somewhat authoritarian" he has instituted a flat tax and attracted Ross Perot.(who by a quirk of birth and fate has deposed the former King of the Hawkpeople Voltan and taken his place on the throne mainly due to his amazing jug eared gliding skills and brain full of crazy.)
Remember, in Mongo no workforce is cheaper than the slave labour in the profitable radioactive mines and overheads are low ! Boom times indeed. -
When you brought up that "because he could melt you all" comment, were you responding to me? I think so but I can't tell for sure.
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of Socialism, Fascism or Oligarchy.
1. They are not a socialist state...and no money to be one. Besides the typical Filipino would not trust them and therefore never allow them to get that powerful.
2. Not a fascist state..They are not an authoritarian government and have no power to send the military to arrest you nor the power to control the media, nor do they really meddle with the economy for State gain. Also they are not super patriotic, in a Nationalist way, to the point of pavlovian responses at the sight of the Flag or the passing mention of some event...such as we see here today.
3. They ARE a minor Oligarchy...as most governments are, as with any country there are those more likely to be in a position of power through blood ties and business elitism. However, people there don't listen to them and they are all but powerless.
As for the RPIs economic problems...you better look into the international trade laws that limit developing countries ability to climb out of such status, and more importantly the role America had in their current situation. Such as supporting their President Marcos...who kept the country under marshal law for over a decade while raiding billions from it for his own pockets. They learned from that...they learned never trust your government and never trust a foreign power who meddles in your affairs. The 3rd world is in many ways depressed because of the US and Europe, in fact many areas are depressed because of US/EU/WTO protectionist regulations that hiunder access to larger markets for those wholesalers in developing countries..not through LACK of government or lack of desire.
So yes...I am showing them....I am taking my money and my industry to a place where the government won't tax me as much, where the government doesn't send its army all over the world to spread democracy through bullets and bombs on my dime and good name, and where they will basically leave me alone to live my life as I see fit. -
You're completely mad, God bless ya.
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Barak Obama is not a muslim and if he was that would not matter anyway. Only if he were a radical militant muslim bent on jihad aginst the west would it matter.. Only if he were the kind of muslim who assosiated with suicide bombers and the like would it matter...The reality of the matter is Barak Oboma spent 20 years in a racist black seperatist "christian" church. (If you belive for a secound that reverand Wright only preached hate when Oboma was not around you are a fool). Oboma has conections with William Ayers the founder of the Whetherman Underground. This organization attempted to bomb the pentagon. An act the was completed succesfully on Sept 11, 2001 by another radical organization. William Ayers stated on Sept 11, 2001 that his organization should have done more then they did while they were operating..Oboma refuses to distances himself from Ayers. These things matter..Wake up.. If McCain had ever attened any type of organization that preached hate speach against black America I would be very much against him.. If McCain had ever consorted with anyone like Timothy McVay or Terry Nichols I would be very much against him.. We should not care a whit that Europe likes Oboma.. People in Europe are ready to bend over and spread thier cheeks for radical Islam (not saying Oboma will do anything like this) and for good reason... The devil is at thier door. These are very serious issues that the media does not bring up often enough becouse they have already picked thier horse.. I am nether a Republican or a Democrate..I am not a fan of George W. Bush nor am I blind about McCains faults.. I am fiercly Independent... I have stayed indipendent becouse of what Geroge Washington stated in his farewell address to the nation.. Washington warned us that partizen politics will ruin our nation.. And I think that is what is happening right now.. People are supporting Oboma simply becouse they are towing the party line. Its either that and/or people are so simple minded that they are falling for the pretty sparkely Oboma packaging. Oboma is a great speaker and I think its past time that we have a black president.. For these reasons I really wanted to vote for Barak..But speaches are usless experiance is what matters.. And to give my vote just becouse of a mans skin tone is not the right thing to do..Wake up.
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And prove to me they are not the base of intelligence. Look at the insipid conversations about the candidates. Not one debate about economics or foreign and domestic policies. Instead, we get insults, and thoughts worded by 16yr old shut ins with Transformers posters on the wall about the 15 second sound bites they saw on the local news. No in dept analysis of the miniscule differences in policy or ideology. Instead we get four lettered insults and knee jerk reactionary chest thumping bravado. Perhaps YOU would like to tell me the differences in McCain v. Obama in regards to the Georgian conflict and why America needs to get involved, or instruct me how they differ in their approach to the Fed and the currect credit crisis and what the next step should be? Or should we just stick to talking about who lied when and who is the better talking head?
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You make fine points, and I agree with you, but you really need to know how to spell both Barack and Obama. Was that really an accident or are you spelling his name wrong on purpose?
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Im just a poor speller.. I forgot to add on my post that I refuse to appoligize for my spelling errors
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I would also love to see an African-American as president, if only to finally put to sleep the like that we are a racist country. Unfortunately, Senator Obama is not the man for me because of his record.
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Above..."like" should read "lie."*sigh* I used to dream about Naomi Watts...now I dream of AN EDIT FEATURE!!!!!
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There you go again, you may be the worlds worst speller, it almost looks like you are doing it on purpose. Hey type something more, it's funny. Type "Peter picked a peck of pickled peppers".
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Sep 15, 2008 6:26:38 PM CDT
show of hands- who has changed their political view based on thi
by irrelevntelefant
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I've been reading your posts and I mostly don't agree with your point of view but I know you are being sincere and reasonable.
I live in Australia and to be honest, what the US does has relatively less impact on us than many other countries in the world. However, it still has a massive influence. Our economy is tied into the US which is still a major engine of the world economy. If the US economy goes south, so does ours. Foreign policy is also a big thing. We follow the US just about everywhere. Korea, Vietnam (even the UK sat that one out), Iraq 1, Iraq 2, Afghanistan.
I have to run but classic examples of countries really affected by the US would include Iran. Probably the UK were the prime movers but the US were also involved. You had a democratically elected President (Mossadeq) overthrown by the West because he wanted his country to have a greater share of their own oil wealth. The much hated Shah is put in his place. This opens the door for the religious fundamentalists to take over, creating our present situation. You could argue that we created it. There's a strong case to make that if it hadn't been for what we did in the 50's, Iran would be a more secular democracy and much more like Turkey than it is today. Many of the Iranian people of the Iranian people are actually very pro US. They admire the people and the technological innovation of the US. However, as each day passes, it's getting increasingly trying for them.
Then there's Guatamala. Their democratically elected government is overthrown on behalf of a US Fruit Company in the 50's. A fruit company???? That has to be a new low.
Then there's Chile, Nicaragua etc etc etc.
I said to someone on a talkback a while back when America's great, it's truly a great country. But when it's vile - it is truly vile - and the sad part is, there was never ever any need to have done these things to these countries, they had very little to do with anything more than a venal attempt to protect some rich people and their money - and in the process dragging the reputation of the country as a whole into the gutter - which for all the good things it has done, doesn't deserve.
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As has my feeling that Harry needs to get a Damned edit feature for this site. People should not be questioned for things misspelled in the heat of writing before the boss/wife/S.O. comes back into the room and see's you wasting time on here yet again.
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It would be the end of talkback as we know it.
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Maybe you're not particular to AICN political Talkbacks. There have been plenty of well-informed and incredibly well written arguments put forth on these boards. Sure, they get heated and yes, they don't always bring out the best "faces" on this site. But to simply say that there is no in-depth analysis of the issues or that the rancor consists of nothing but bravado is simply petulant and ignorant. Like I asked earlier, do you have any great ideas (besides running away)? Because I see you've offered nothing of substance beyond paranoia and, quite frankly, cowardice.Quote: "Politicans in the RPI are corrupt liars...just like in the USA but for two important things. 1. They are blatant about it..you know where you stand with a Phillipine official..they simply ask for $ instead of stealing it through taxation, 2. Filipinos know all politicans are corrupt and don't trust any of them, nor look to them for handouts...so the people basically ignore their own government and go about their lives as best they can."UNBELIEVABLE. Good fucking luck.
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Good to hear an outsiders voice.
As someone who has travelled extensively abroad...I have seen first hand how our single minded two party system has meddled far to often in others business...99% of the time for some economic gain. People who think this will change under Obama are folling themselves....Carter et al...propped up Marcos in the RPI, JFK helped get you guys involved in the Vietnam bloodbath, Regan LOVED Saddam,etc...The only thing that changes are the names and the political logo. Very few in the States ever thinks of the butterfly effect...how these actions almost always have far reaching effects that end in tragedy for everyone involved. -
Very well said
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BSB Note: Carly Fiorina is HP's former Chairman and CEO, and is now McCain's economic advisor ...
HP to cut nearly 25,000 jobs by 2011
Computer maker to trim 7.5% of its payroll with half of cuts coming in the United States as it integrates outsourcing giant EDS.
By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: September 15, 2008: 6:43 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Computer maker Hewlett-Packard said it will lay off 24,600 employees, or 7.5% of its workforce, over the next three years in a plan to integrate tech outsourcer Electronic Data Systems, which HP bought late last month.
HP said the workforce reduction will result in annual cost savings of about $1.8 billion. Of the nearly 25,000 layoffs, HP said about half will come from workers in the United States.
"HP has a strong track record of making acquisitions and integrating them to capture leading market positions," said Mark Hurd, HP's chief executive, in a statement. "We will deliver on the promise of HP and EDS for our customers and shareholders."
A company spokesman said HP was cutting positions that were made redundant due to the acquisition of EDS, but the company expects to hire about 12,000 new employees over the next three years to fill new expansion needs.
HP (HPQ, Fortune 500) expects to take a $1.7 billion charge in its fourth quarter 2008 financial statement due to the restructuring.
(BSB Note: That bit about hiring 12,000 people is typical bullshit that accompanies news of layoffs in order to temper the effects. Any hirings will fall far short of that mark, will come in cheaper overseas markets, and will come at payrates lower than the current basis). -
Sep 15, 2008 6:59:33 PM CDT
SO MUCH FOR CREATING NEW JOBS IN AMERICA, HUH MCCAIN?
by bringingsexyback
The Reps can seriously go fuck themselves.
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We can survive Obama or McCain...
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They hired me after I left the Marines. I still have friends there. I read this story on CNN and it saddens me.
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Nope, sorry, I don't care about Wright, the Weather Underground, or Ayers because all they do is distract from the election at hand. Any candidate running for any significant public office, let alone the MOST significant, is so thoroughly vetted on all fronts that we would've known long ago if Obama was some kind of potential anti-American sleeper or Manchurian candidate. (Besides, there's so much propaganda online about Obama being a secret Muslim -- saw on CNN a few weeks ago a poll that revealed 12% still think he is one -- that it's hard to find factual information considering whoever's writing it is biased one way or the other.) But let's say we've all been duped and Obama is a terrorist-sympathizing communist: there's something called a BALANCE OF POWERS and CHECKS AND BALANCES that prevent worst case scenarios like that from happening. All the noise on his so-called connections with questionable people is just that: noise. It's an utter non-issue. If you want to talk about how Obama is one of the more liberal democrats in the Senate, or how McCain's pandering has reached painful levels, let's talk about that, because those things are actually relevant to the election.
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Well you come from a country that mostly appreciates us as I understand it. I have known the story that you told about Iran, but it has been some time since I read about it and I am not clear right now on the details. It seems to me that you are correct that we are partially responsible for theocratic form of government that they live in. I also have understood that the people of Iran are very pro United States, and the government is very anti US of course. Perhaps we get involved in foreign affairs more than we should. I'm not an expert so I don't know. I would like to suggest that we stand in a completely unique situation, and people criticize our behavior, though there is no frame of reference in history to compare United States to. We are the first country ever to be so powerful, nobody probably disagrees with that. Thank god we are benevolent. And indeed we are, even if we make mistakes. We do not conquer others, and if someone argues that we have just conquered Iraq- that is freaking rediculous, unless there is something that we have not been told about, because we have every intention and have always had every intention to leave Iraq when they are ready and strong enough to handle it on their own.
We americans know that if another country makes a major offensive, we will be intervening, just as we did in WWII. This is our role, this is why most people in most countries probably feel very comfortable knowing that United States has incredible military might, despite their outward griping. Like it or not, we are the police, and I expect this statement will get a string of angry comments, but it is true one way or another. I only hope that we can continue to stay strong enough for my lifetime to stay the police. If something really really bad happens in the world between two countries, we will be taking the major role in fixing it, just like WWII, and I am positive that we will do the best most benevolent job we know how in doing so. I know that England worked with us equally in WWII, and as far as I know, they even did more (please dont get mad at me if I am wrong on this), but in the future, as things are- we are the main ones who will put the fire out. Some people will disagree that this should be our role, and in essence be saying, let the other side of the world burn, War is not the answer. I don't think even Barack Obama would let the other side of the world burn, we will be helping. And so I think that is why we get involved in other peoples bussiness, The police analogy is accurate because not only will we get involved when things really go to hell, we are going to get involved when we think things are headed to hell. I think it is the right choice. Sometimes bad things happen as the result of our involvement. Most of the time I believe things are better off. If we shouldn't get involved, then we should just close our doors and not consort with other countries for any reason other than to trade with them and go on vacations. But this is our country and when we vote, we vote mostly for someone who will put our interests first. People in other countries benefit from our presence, but our governments whole purpose is to protect us. So you don't get to vote for our president. Let me add, if United States had never come to existance, how would the world look? Some science fiction author could probably come up with an amazing scenerio, but my guess is it might not be pretty. Just keep in mind, there has never been a situation in history like this one. Be so freaking glad that so much power as we have isn't in the hands of some Ayatolah. -
1. real debate. No more agreed upon questions and hand picked pannels. Real Questions from Real citizens. As it stands now they are served vetted softballs and puke out pure vote pandering rhetoric.
2. An end to government regulation of Education thus allowing dissent and differing points of view without the Feds pulling funding.
3. An end to the 2 majors drawing the rules for campaign funding and coverage...allow the 3rd parties equal access.
4. A return to Constitutional authority for all military engagements. Make congress vote...make them answerable for their actions...and make them set definite goals before they set about murdering people arounf the globe.
5. Tighter controls on the Fed, or abolish them. They have allowed the Government to spend money it does not have on projects they have no authority to begin. They have devalued the dollar to the point of near worthlessness and caused a shift away from it and to other currencies such as the Euro. Lenders didn't cause the credit crisis...Washington and the Fed did by flooding the market with greenbacks.
6. Either go with Sound money or mandate balanced bugets..no more deficit spending no matter the "good" cause. No more corporate handouts, or welfare forever...no more trade regulation that only benefits multinationals, no more Farm subsidies...They only Spend what they have.
7. And what they have will be what we are willing to give instead of them simply taking what they want....A Flat tax...Justice demands that if taxation is a reality then we all should pay the same and not be singled out for any reason to pay more or less. We paid over 20K in taxes last year...money I could have invested, spent, given to charity or saved but for the thieves in washington with their welfare and war.
8. An end to lifetime benefits for elected officials, and term limits. As it stands now elected officials do only those things that will get them elected again to ensure they can grease the wheels of graft. Politics is the only job where someone can go in $200k in debt with nothing but a B.A. Art and a good speech writer and come out a few years later a millionaire with a consultant position with a defense contractor waiting.
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But this won't happen. Because these are the slyest of the worlds crooks, who have well educated their wards..and now need do nothing but make promises they can't keep..or beg borrow (China, Japan and Russia hold 25% of our debt) and steal to make them happen...and people are only too happy to feed at the government table with nary a care as to how they got this bounty so long as it keeps coming. Nothing will change...it hasn't despite the warnings, despite historical fact..and it never will. There comes a time to call it quits..as only a fool stands outside and curses the storm...the smart ones get out of the rain. -
We are doing the vetting right now. Obama hasn't won yet, and I actually don't think he will. But you talk as if a Manchurian Canidate is not even possible- I am sure it is. But you are right, there are checks and balances in place to help us even if he is a nasty character. But frankly, if he is, We'd be much better off figuring that out sooner than later. Just because are comfortable with Wright doesn't mean that everyone else is and should be. This election process is mostly to help us understand character. Obama's appreciation for Reverend Wright is relevant to his character.
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All Super powers of their time, all created empires and sought to bring civilization to the barbarian, all fell and are either gone or ghosts of themselves as they spent every last cent of their money, time and lives to hold them together.
Also...I think your opinion about might change about the States having such great power if you were say a brother of one of the estimated 100,000 Iraqis killed during our little democracy spreading adventure, or perhaps a country where we illegally dumped military toxic waste, or where we refused to let country sell its goods due to domestic farm subsidies, even while you allowed the US to flood your own country with needed products. Oh...and the Ayatollah has never directly attacked the US, they are Shiite and as such much more Moderate than our Saudi Wahhabist "Friends"....remember..the Ayatollah didn't threaten a military response and then overthrow a fairly elected official...that was us.
America is Great...but is no longer loved as it once was...simply because we don't stay out of peoples business, and we abuse our power. We have become a bully. -
If you could put the might of the United States into the hands of some other nation, which one would it be?
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Let's just drop that crap okay. In terms of personal politics she doesn't seem that much different from a lot of women in America. Which is probably why she polls so well. As a politician she doesn't seem much different than most, she just learned how to play the game a whole lot faster. Too many people have wasted time on both sides with the personal attacks and not enough time on the issues. It's just mean-spirited and vile. Deconstruct her on her potential, or lack thereof, as a leader.
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How can you not even take into consideration Wright, the Weather Underground, or Ayers. I don't even understand what you mean when you say "they distract from the election at hand". And who vetted Obama? When did that happen? That is the medias job and they refuse to do it becouse there too worried they'll offend someone or mabey becouse they don't want to out thier own candidate.. So by your way of thinking David Duke would have been a viable candiate for president if only he were a democrate.. Becouse his KKK conections were only noise..And if "BALANCE OF POWERS and CHECKS AND BALANCES that prevent worst case scenarios" were so reliable how come we are in such a supposed "worst case scenarios" right now..YOu need to realize that there are true "worst case scenarios" in this world they are out there waiting to stike again and they've been waiting for the last seven years...Somebody must be doing somthing right..............I refuse to appoligize for my spelling errors
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And it isn't Obama.
Lets see, taken prisoner by a hostile Asian country at war with the U.S. Tortured then eventually sent back home.. Hmmm.. this really should be ringing a bell but it escapes me for the moment.
And McCains appreciation for Pastor Hagee tells us a great deal about HIS character.
On a more serious note the idea that any candidate could be a "sleeper agent" is pure 100% horseshit. Not for the weather underground (the weather girls are a proscribed group but not officialy terrorists) not for Al Qaeda, not for any foreign power. Take the tin-foil hat off please. -
That's very clever. I am not worried that he is some sleeper agent for Weather Underground. However, I am somewhat worried that he is the politically correct, succesfully disconected representative of Louis Farakhan. This is why people who are paying attention don't feel good about the reverend Wright conection. If Obama loses, Farakhan will be pissed to high hell. Who do you think hates Sarah Palin more than any person in the world? The answer- Farakhan. Can you imagine the things that Malik and Louis say about her in private company? It's probably pretty raunchy stuff.
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Meanwhile Carly, rather than lamenting the bleeding of American jobs (in fact she's probably celebrating HP's cost savings and the value of her own stock holdings), is fixated on Tina Fey and calling her ... sexist. Witness:
Carly Fiorina Criticizes Tina Fey As "Disrespectful...Sexist"
September 15, 2008 01:28 PM
McCain spokeswoman Carly Fiorina has weighed in on the major issue of today, namely, 30 Rock creator Tina Fey's portrayal of vice presidential contender Sarah Palin from this weekend's Saturday Night Live. Fiorina, astonishingly, termed it "disrespectful." Because that's what SNL does - paint flattering pictures of political figures. You'd think she'd be immune to such concerns, or at least not humorless about it -- after all, the very candidate she supports went on SNL last season and wittily lampooned his own age. But in Fiorina's opinion, Fey was "sexist" and failed to delve into Palin's substance.
Speaking of Palin's substance, today on the stump she loudly declared that she'd end the practice of Wall Street rewarding incompetent CEOs with "golden parachutes." Palin made no note of Fiorina's own $21 million-dollar ripcord, because I guess that would be too substantive.
MITCHELL: You are the first person from the McCain campaign I can ask, what did you think of Tina Fey as Sarah Palin?
FIORINA: Well, I think that she looked a bit like her. I think that, of course, the portrait was very dismissive of the substance of Sarah Palin, and so in that sense, they were defining Hillary Clinton as very substantive, and Sarah Palin as totally superficial. I think that continues the line of argument that is disrespectful in the extreme, and yes, I would say, sexist in the sense that just because Sarah Palin has different views than Hillary Clinton does not mean that she lacks substance. She has a lot of substance.
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Sep 15, 2008 8:19:15 PM CDT
OH CHRIST, NOW THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT LOUIS FARRAKHAN?
by bringingsexyback
The shit people dream up just to feed their irrational anxieties is laughable. Y'all need therapy. And fast.
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Sep 15, 2008 8:27:22 PM CDT
I THINK SOME OF THE TALKBACK WINGNUTS HAVE BEEN BUSY ...
by bringingsexyback
pretending to be pollsters and harassing Jews ...
September 15, 2008
Politico
Categories: Polls
Jewish voters complain of anti-Obama poll
Jewish voters are complaining of a poll that, after confirming their religion, asks a series of questions that appear aimed at alarming Jewish voters, including linking Barack Obama to Palestinian terrorist groups.
Debbie Minden of Pittsburgh described receiving the call from "Research Strategies" late yesterday afternoon. And a Key West woman, Joelna Marcus, reportedly received a similar-sounding call from the same group, according reports from the Obama-backing organization JewsVote.org and from a local blog.
Minden, a psychologist who lives in the Jewish neighborhood of Squirrel Hill, said the poll -- which came from an identified number -- began with relatively inocuous questions about what organizations she belongs to, whether she prefers CNN or Fox News, and how Obama and McCain compare on a range of issues, from national security to hte economy to education.
The caller also asked whether she was Jewish.
"It sounded like a real poll," Minden, 56, asaid.
Then the caller asked, as she recalled: "Would it change your mind about Obama if you knew that his church was anti-Israel? Would it change you rmind if you knew that the leaders Hamas had endorsed Obama? Would it change your mind if you knew he had met with the leaders of Hamas?"
She also said one question asked whether it would change her mind if she learned he were a Muslim, though she didn't recall the precise wording.
The poll lasted about 15 minutes, she said.
Marcus gave a similar account to JewsVote's Mik Moore, who wrote in an email that Marcus was asked if her opinion of Barack Obama would change if she knew that he had given money to the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
Marcus couldn't immediately be reached. If you've gotten a similar poll, or know someone who has, please get in touch.
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Rising from the grave by any means necessary to "terrorist" fistbump Obama into enslaving whitey.
Fearsome indeed! -
Right, there aren't enough connections.
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http://tinyurl.com/6s6bo6
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Maybe Dr. Minden can help you.
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Honestly... what's the deal? Do you not love America enough to commit to her with more intellectual rigor?
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Well even if the connection was blatently obvious, which it almost is, it doesn't sound like you would care. Because you may think that our friends have no relevance on who we are. You'd just vote for him anyway.
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Now I am convinced you're one of those faux pollsters. Stop harassing Jews. Freak.
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For getting people to vote for who they want and not for who you want. The greatest thing about being an American is having the freedom of choice (something that Sarah Palin doesn't agree with), especially in an election.
P.S. NADER in '08! -
Dude don't call me moron. Louis Farrakhan has spoken several times about Barack Obama, and he looked fine to me. He has said that he will step back now, because he doesn't want his presence to interfere with Obama's election. I'm sure Obama agrees that it is best if they stay away from each other right now. But Obama was happy to support Farrakhan a few years ago at the Million More March.
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We know that Barack Obama is close with Wright, and attended his church faithfully. We also know that Wright is good friends with Farrakhan; Wright and Farrakhan traveled together to Lebenon for some reason I forget, and Wright gave Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award, at which time Wright described Farrakhan as a man that "truly epitomizes greatness". These are facts. If these sound like facts that would disturb you if they were true, then go ahead and look them up- do some homework for once. If these facts don't disturb you, then never mind, no biggie. Maybe you agree with Farrakhan's rhetoric. But I'm not out of line when I describe the connection. There is a connection that is quite close.
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and think that Samus might benefit from the "How Reality Goes Viral" section. Try it out, Samus. Detox your brain.
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I don't know what you are talking about, but you sound like someone who has his fingers in his ears and is mumbling to drown voices out. I'm not going to ask you to look into it anymore, you obviously don't care.
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Go to jewsvote.org, click the Reality button, and there you will find some mythbusting truths that put all your fears about Obama to rest. Also click the button labeled "Barack Obama".
Comprende? -
OK I promise to do that if you promise to go look into Farrakhan. Look his name up on wikipedia if you have to- I know that Jerremiah Wright and Barack Obama both have sections in that article. Google Wright and Farrakhan and Obama Million Man March, there is plenty of information there- You can't miss it. I will check your jewsvote.org page. I would seriously like to find something that would put to rest my worries about the Farrakhan Obama connection. I might even want him to be president if the connection wasn't there. Just don't dismiss it until you have looked into it.
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You want every slimy cunt TB'er denying racist outlandish shit moments later after they hastily delete their objectionable comments?! Fuck that. I can delete with spelling errors. And if you really can't get past them, then please see yourself to the door and fuck off.
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right after you watch this video of Triumph at the RNC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKwesxb83c4 -
Sep 15, 2008 9:33:54 PM CDT
hahaha.......are you people still bitching about Wright
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Sep 15, 2008 9:34:59 PM CDT
hahaha.......are you people still bitching about Wright?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Jesus fucking Christ....read the entire quote people, not Fox News excerpts. His statement about 9/11 isn't even remotely anti-American. That is such a fucking bullshit argument.
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Ok I looked at that site. The Obama article basically said that jews support Obama, and that he met with Benjamin Netenyahu and that they walked away happy from each other. It didnt say that Benjamin agrees with Obama, or thinks he would be a good president, it just said that Netenyahu thinks he understands the situation in the middle east, and that they both agree Nuclear Iran is unacceptable. That's not exactly an endorsement by Netenyahu, and actually I would seriously like to know who Benjamin Netanyahu would prefer to be the american president.
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Already saw it, it was funny. And I saw Triumph personally at the San Diego Comic Con. But I will watch this Triumph again.
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You're link didn't work
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You talk as if there is only one quote, and as if that stuff is so obviously taken out of context. I've seen enough to know where Jeremiah Wright is coming from. Maybe you have strained yourself trying to justify Wrights comments. It can't have been easy.
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Sep 15, 2008 9:42:57 PM CDT
SAMUS - YOU NEED TO WATCH THIS OBAMA SPEECH FROM MLK DAY
by bringingsexyback
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfHQB8VRUA
Take out the spaces in the link. -
Aren't you the same guy bitching about Obama trying to win European support when he should be trying to win more support here? If not...then fuck off-- this comment is not for you. But it seems a bit hypocritical you complain about his campaigning overseas yet you sound so interested in who Netenyahu supports. Why? Going off your very words-- shouldn't we not give a fuck what other countries think?
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No that wasn't me. So I guess I won't fuck off, or maybe I was supposed to fuck off, I got a little confused with your words there. That was some other guy, and I don't really care about his trip to Germany. Yeah I do care about what Netenyahu thinks, that is relevant. Again you have me confused with some other guy. I think I won't fuck off.
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Now I'm curious.
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Well I don't care really. I just mentioned that in relationship to that article you wanted me to read. But I would say his opinion is relevant because he probably has a good idea how strong of a friend Obama will be with Israel. I'd actually be far more interested in what economic experts think about Obama.
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I watched that video you sent. I'm not really sure what you draw from that. For one thing, I was never hung up on any rumor that Obama won't say "god bless america". That video doesn't really do anything for me. What does it tell you?
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Of course Netanyahu has a good idea which of the candidates would be a better friend to Israel. But why do you give a shit who is a better friend to Israel? You are voting based on the well being of Israel? I'm sorry-- I just don't see that way of thinking. I'm not from the John McCain school of thinking that we should destroy every Arab nation to preserve Israel. Cue the anti-semite remarks!!
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that Obama's tax plan will cut taxes for the middle class, and benefit over 85% of Americans. McCain's tax plans yield no benefits for the middle class and only benefit corporations and the wealthy.
Funny because Ralph Reed was on Larry King earlier and said McCain's capital gains tax reductions will help property owners. Funny thing is ... you only get a tax advantage on selling your property, or other investments, if you make a profit.
Considering the housing and stock market meltdown, I'd say that's a tenuous claim at best. Maybe Ralph should stick to what he knows best - fleecing Evangelicals. -
Find me one quote where he clearly states he hates America.
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dude I am not even suprised. Indeed that was a genuinely antisemetic remark, but that is what I expect from democrats deep down. They don't support Israel, and they for the most part would be fine watching Israelis pushed into the ocean. I never stop wondering why jewish people are generally liberal- there must seriously be something I am missing here. I am confounded. Someone please tell me why. I plead ignorance here. Call me an ignoramus all you want, just someone please finally give me the answer. However, no, who would be the best friend to Israel is not one of the major issues to me, I am just curious why it isn't a major issue to most jewish people. By the way, if it isn't obvious, I am certain McCain would be the better friend to Israel, yes.
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Sep 15, 2008 10:17:24 PM CDT
JOHN MCCAIN'S COUSIN SPEAKS OUT - AND IT MAKES ME SAD
by bringingsexyback
Cousin John, where did you go?
Adam Vaulx Boles
St. Petersburg Times In print: Sunday, September 14, 2008
Recently, my father gave me an envelope full of press clippings which chronicle the history of a very notable part of our family. Most of the articles come from the Florida Times-Union, a Jacksonville-based paper he read during the '60s and '70s when he taught at Lake City Community College. They detail the years in which my cousin, then-Lt. Cmdr. John S. McCain, was imprisoned in North Vietnam.
John and I are related through our grandmothers. Katherine Vaulx McCain and Huetta Vaulx Boles, both of Fayetteville, Ark., were sisters. My side of the Vaulx family represents a long line of Democrats, but it is with no small amount of pride that we've followed the life and career of now-Sen. John McCain.
My dad knew John when he was a child, and maintained a close relationship with his father, Adm. Jack McCain. When my dad was a teenager, the McCains visited his family in Arkansas around the time my great-uncle, John's grandfather, was commanding an aircraft carrier group in the Pacific during World War II.
He and Jack remained close over the years, exchanging many letters while my dad was in Lake City and Jack was commanding the fleet in the Pacific during Vietnam. When John was taken prisoner, the letters my dad sent took on a tone of deep concern and sympathy.
My father is, above anything else, dedicated to his family. Although he had never met John's then-wife, Carol, he knew that she lived an hour away, just outside of Jacksonville. He did everything he could to make sure she was taken care of during that time.
Although neither my father nor I have ever voted for a Republican, when John threw his hat in the ring in 2000, we were both very proud and encouraged, and not just because he's our relative. This was the first Republican who, on a national stage, was saying things like, "If we repeal Roe vs. Wade tomorrow, thousands of young American women will be performing illegal and dangerous operations," and, "Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer-reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance." Wow!
Here was a man who was not abiding by partisan lines, who was, instead, living up to his promise of "straight talk" and commonsense thinking. The right-wing Republican base may not have agreed with everything he said, but the rest of America certainly respected him for speaking his mind honestly.
Jump ahead to the campaign Sen. McCain is currently running. Clearly, a lot can change in eight years. Our nation has gone from a time of unparalleled prosperity and peace to one marked by debt in the trillions of dollars, record foreclosures, and a global reputation for warmongering and neo-imperialism.
So, where is the straight-talking, commonsense John McCain of 2000? I'm afraid he is long gone, replaced by a desperate version of himself who seems to contradict nearly everything he once stood for.
What becomes apparent in his ideological about-face is just how out of touch McCain really is with America's working families.
In a time when the country is facing the worst housing crisis in the memory of most Americans, McCain couldn't even recall how many homes he owns. When asked how many homes my side of the family owns, I can answer you pretty quickly. Zero.
Just like so many working families in this country, we were nearly ruined by the ongoing mortgage and foreclosure crisis. Our family home of three generations was sold at auction last year. The story is a familiar one: We were suckered into a refinance deal during the real estate boom, and when times got tough, the near criminally deregulated mortgage companies changed the rules on us.
What was John McCain's response to this? He lumped together all the families who fell victim to the smarmy sales pitches from subprime lenders, calling us "irresponsible," a move the New York Times described as "mean-spirited and economically naive."
What contortions has this new John McCain twisted himself into in order to win this election? When asked last year about his stance on abortion, he told a group of supporters, "I do not support Roe vs. Wade. It should be overturned." This statement not only sharply contrasts with what he said back in the 2000 election cycle, but is also at odds with a majority of American public opinion, according to the most recent Harris poll on the subject.
Further, McCain's decision to put the antichoice, creationist Sarah Palin on his ticket appears to be motivated completely by a political desire to shore up the radical right evangelical base with whom he's been at odds for so long. This is the same woman who claimed in June "that our national leaders are sending (our soldiers) out on a task that is from God."
A part of me is made very sad to write this article. As I've said, my family has followed John's life and career with no absence of pride. If there ever were a Republican we might consider voting for, it would have been my cousin John.
But, as he continually demonstrates in this campaign, my cousin John is long gone. "Straight talk" has been replaced with "flip-flop." Saddest all, this is the same man who, when campaigning in 2000, told a crowd of supporters, "I don't think Bill Gates needs a tax cut. I think your parents do."
My parents, John, need some help after the economic destruction Bush has wrought in the last eight years, but it's clear you're not the one who'll give it to us. America's working families no longer recognize you, nor does your own.
Adam Vaulx Boles lives and works in Tallahassee.
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Sep 15, 2008 10:21:42 PM CDT
So Samus do you think McCain should be disqualified for the Holo
by g100
Of Hagee ?
After all it's not like McCain knows a guy who knows Hagee. McCain was ENDORSED by Hagee. Publicly. Without reservation. On camera.
Which of Hagee's views are you and McCain comfortable to be smeared by association with ?
The Virulent anti-Catholic hate ? Claiming Katrina was a punishment sent by God on New Orleans ? Claiming Hitler was sent by God to Hunt the Jews and cause the Holocaust ?
Because like I've already said if all you have is pathetic smears by association then McCain is in VERY deep as there may just be a few catholics and jews and sane people who might just find Hageee a vile reprehensible figure.
One VERY easily put into a 1 minute attack ad should such cheap Rovian attack dog crap (that McCain knows SO well from personal experience) actually finds it's way onto the Election.
Because God forbid the Republicans were simply too scared to to put any coherant argument forward on the real issues like the Economy, Iraq and Healthcare.
Whining about trivia like Wright or Farrakhan or whoever frightens you the most will not win this election but it WILL prove something about those doing the smearing.
It's the Economy Stupid.
All this pathetic trivia is going to be swept away in a gale of anger in the face of the number 1 issue with voters. -
Sep 15, 2008 10:22:35 PM CDT
SAMUS - I'M SURE YOU'RE SINCERE ABOUT YOUR FAITH IN BENJAMIN NET
by bringingsexyback
But to me it's sickeningly misplaced. Perhaps you also agree with Netanyahu over his April 2008 statements about 9/11?
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Since I know Wright's quotes by heart, I can already tell you that he never used the specific words "I Hate America". But if you listen to his words, his anger towards america and towards white people is as apparent as his friend's Louis Farrakhan. And by the way, they are free to feel that way all they want, and they have some very legitimate reasons to be so angry. They can remember times when they were treated very horribly by both white people and by america. Those times have changed dramatically, but they don't forget their anger. I would like a black president who isn't connected to such anger. I don't know a lot about Michael Steele, but from what I do know about him, I would vote him in office in a second. There is a true died in the wool conservative, he sticks by his values despite what others probably say about him. And there are plenty more great men like him too. Just be careful when you elect someone from Chicago, there is some funky networking going on up there.
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Ron Paul is the only real proponent of change. Our economy is in the shit, the world is sick and tired of us thinking we can police the world, and our civil liberties are being taken away everyday. Neither Obama nor McCain have any clue what a monetary policy is. McCain is insane in his warmongering, and all Obama really wants to do is move our troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. And Obama is lucky he wasn't in office when the Patriot Act was voted on because I can guarantee he would have voted for it. Ron Paul 2012! Vote 3rd party this year, show the Republicrats that we're sick and tired of the same bullshit over and over again!
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You're trying to label me an anti-semite for this comment, "I'm not from the John McCain school of thinking that we should destroy every Arab nation to preserve Israel." My point is it is absolutely asinine to vote based on the well being of a nation other than ours. You disagree with this? You think the well being of our own soil should be secondary to Israel? Of course you don't you fucking cretin. No one could possibly be that ignorant. You're just running your mouth for the sake of spewing your right wing sludge and hoping to bait some douche bag like myself into getting caught up in a conversation with you. I agree-- McCain would be better for Israel. Why? Because McCain is a war monger, and war is good for Israel as long as they are our ally and we are destroying everything around them.
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Ok enough, I don't know enough about Benjamin Netenyahu to speak about him, I really don't. I have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about his statements, and if has said some stupid stuff- then that is beyond what I know. Forget anything I said. I don't know enough about him to be talking about him. All I know is that he was the Prime Minister of Israel, and I was under the impression that he was a good Prime Minister, that is the extent of my knowledge of him.
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You know Wright's quotes by heart? And you hang out on AICN like 12 hours a day? You're fucked up dude. Get a life.
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Did you fail economics? Tax cuts work. There are at least three exellent examples in US History, Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush. The problem with the Bush Tax Cut is they didn't go far enough. And Obama wants to discriminate/disenfranchise those who suceeed and his idea is Marxism 101. As for the cridt crunch/housing problem, we wouldn't be in this predicament if the Democratic congress pushed the mortgage companies to give high risk loans for low income housing and illegal aliens. by the way, Obama stands by his camoaign ad of mocking a POW's war injuries. I guess that's change you can believe in.
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ok ok, I'm sorry, you're right. That was harsh. I didn't mean it. Seriously don't bust a nut. Nothing you said tells me you are antisemetic- it was stupid of me to say.
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Well, let's clue him in. Most Jews actually believe that diplomacy works better than war. That perpetual war is not to Israel's benefit, nor to America's. That a lasting peace for Israel can only come from engaging the Palestinians and its neighbors in a non-aggressive, non-confrontational manner.
It would behoove Samus to do some homework on subjects he opines upon. -
I'm on here enough to know that you are on here a hell of a lot more than me. I just like talking politics today.
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...he was specifically mocking that cocksucker John McCain. He deserves to be mocked. Only a wretched cunt such as McCain could come out of a POW camp and spend the rest of his career voting against the well being of War Veterans. Wow. How could anyone trust such a cutthroat individual bent on military power.
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Sexy, the Isreali's aren't the problem. It's the Palestinians. Their movemenet grew from their relationship with the Nazis. Your stikup for Nazi's?
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Tonight is a fluke. I'm home alone. Usually I'm on here about 6.5 hours a day, on week days while I'm at work.
Fuck off. -
That is why I asked. I admited I don't understand it. What would be best for Israel? Perpetual war seems to be all they have been allowed. Solving that situation would be best for Israel, but until that time, they have to be constantly vigilant. The support of the United States makes that possible. You seem to know the solution to the middle east problem. Why isn't anybody listening to your comprehensive plan? I will stay away from the topic of Israel, it is too touchy a subject. It seems I couldn't say anything about Israel without you getting juiced up.
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So Obama wanting to give tax cuts to the middle class, to spur consumer spending and to provide tax incentives for corporations that keep jobs in America is ... Marxism 101?
I don't know what online university you got your edumacation from but, yeah, I would've done pretty poorly in your Econ class.
Good luck with that virtual diploma, Einstein. -
dude tonight is no fluke for you, it is for me because my wife is away right now. But your name is all over this website like paint on the walls. Don't tell me you arent posting all day every day. And really, it's no big deal. It's fun to opine once in a while.
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I appreciate your apology. And with that.....good nite all.
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It is very rare for me to be on after 4pm Pacific Time.....but whatever. Who cares.
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Most Jews worldwide, and a majority of Israelis, support diplomatic engagement with the Palestinians and a negotiation for a two-state solution for lasting peace.
Are you suggesting that Jews and Israelis are sticking up for Nazis?
Einstein? -
I certainly don't care
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You're talking to the man around here. Show some respect.
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Oh how is that. Did he get interviewed?
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Sexy, it's called the communist manifesto or redistribution of wealth.
There will be no peace. Arafat had what he wanted and walked away from peace. The Iranian masters of Hamas and Hezbollah will never allow peace. (All three endorse Obama). Democracy is poison to their power. Go read up the history of the Muslim Brotherhood and you will find the Nazi connection. -
What do you think about Obama's connection to Farrakhan?
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and from that moment DGDB was made immortal.
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Oh really? Judd Apatow mentioned Danny Glovers Dick Blood on Leno? Why? Is there video of this? That is pretty cool. DickBlood, if you are still there, Kudos.
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Man they got your brainwashed but good.
Communist Manifesto? Redistribution of wealth? Pretty big words there, but I watch Fox too, Chuk. You don't fool me with your feigned intellect.
Tell me where in Obama's economic plan does he support seizing the collective wealth and property of the rich and reassign it across the board.
Seriously. Tell me. -
Sep 15, 2008 11:01:03 PM CDT
HOW ARE OBAMA'S TAX CUTS FOR CORPORATIONS AND MIDDLE CLASS
by bringingsexyback
indicative of a Marxist agenda?
More importantly, why am I debating a motard? -
Taxes are seizure of collective wealth. Are they not?
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If Obama wants to cut taxes on corporations, well that is good. That would open up new jobs. And Obama's desire to give Corporations incentive to keep jobs in america, also good. I have to say that he has some good ideas there. And no, those particular points do not sound like marxism.
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I don't know, I guess I have to look into that. I haven't paid any attention to that. It seems that while I have been wrapped up worrying about Wright, you have been worrying about Hagee, and neither one of us has paid attention to the other one. And you are right, the main topic that will really matter is the economy, more than anything else- and that is good. Whichever canidate can convince the most people that he can improve the economy wins. McCain hasn't been making a very good argument. Obama kind of has, but he is from the party that doesn't care about the economy. So then that looks bad.
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Sep 15, 2008 11:15:59 PM CDT
SAMUS - IF I COULD BROKER THE PEACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND PALESTINE
by bringingsexyback
They'd be having a falafel party by tomorrow. But AIPAC and Hamas won't let me sit at the bargaining table. Oh well, at least I have AICN.
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So what you are saying is that you seriously do have the answer. Well it must be a simpler problem than I thought.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XW7tkN-_GM
and move on to part 3 if you're so inclined (and I believe you are). -
But I will watch it again,and tell you what I think.
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I cant stand McCain, he is a major suckup to whoever he wants something from. Palin is a fucking hick from Alaska, just cause she is reasonably good looking doesnt make her qualified. Hell, the Mayor of Detroit is more qualified than her and he is a fucking pimp ass crook.
The problem is that most of America is stupid, this is partially why we are in this shitstorm of a mess we have right now. If you vote for McCain, you are un-american, cause you truly dont care what happens to this country letting Grandpa Munster the MILF of Frankenstein in office. Because he will keep doing what Bush is doing, even though he lies out his stroke & cancer ridden mouth. I just emailed Dennis Miller for going from an intelligent comedian to a stupid one since he thinks Palin is the right choice and anyone who makes fun of her should be shunned. I told him he used to be funny when he was a Democrat and didnt have that jesus shaped cross stuck up his ass. -
What do you think about that interview? I am not sure how people could watch that interview and have a better view of Obama on his economic plan. The points made in there are exactly my biggest worries about him.
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the people that vote for McCsame
Don't have a clue.
Anyone making under 250,000 should vote for Obama.
McCsame gives to much money back to the rich.
If America is made up of 85% Lower and Middle class it makes sense giving more money to them.
If you give a person that makes 30,000 a year a Thousand bucks that makes a Diff.
If you give someone that makes 250,000 bucks a thousand will he notice it at all ? (thats a big NO!!)
wake up people . -
How is it important that Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah "endorse" Obama? Did Obama use that "endorsement" in any way? Has he even acknowledged that "endorsement"? Finally, when Reagan was running for president in 1980, he had the "endorsement" of the KKK. Does this mean Reagan was a secret sheet dressing cross burner?
How fucking stupid are you, anyway? -
was our last good president. search your feelings, you KNOW it to be true.
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Just how stupid are you? Please tell you which post set me off? How about the one that I referred to. And even quoted from. You know nothing about me, and I have more interest in this than most non-Americans. Anger issues? This is TALKBAAAAAACK. How stupid are you? and as for your laughable history lesson, please, dipshit get a grip.BTW shovelling toxic waste with your hands is not a job that requires intelligence, which is just as well or you'd be back on the street giving hand jobs for crack seeing as your beloved conservative ethos would strip social security to the bone.
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They're always hilarious.
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he's madder than a box of frogs. And he knows what fascism is. I thought he didn't when he first posted, but he's got it spot on. And I'm envious of his plan to bugger off to somewhere remote. It sounds great.
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...what kind of people Sarah Palin and her pregnant 17-year-old unwed daughter appeal to.
I was involved with a woman from West Virginia years ago. She had a brother and a sister-in-law who were born again baptists of the raving lunatic variety. The sister-in-law was particularly odious. She was a staunch conservative, creationist, die-hard republican and completely ignorant of anything outside of her home county -- which isn't surprising since everything outside was EVIL. She was especially vocal about abortions which she considered to be the biggest evil in a morally decadent America.
Can you imagine my mingled disgust and endless amusement when I learned that she had not only had one, but TWO abortions after becoming pregnant twice with her doctor. How did she reconcile this with her beliefs, I hear you ask?
Easy!
She prayed to Jesus -- real hard, mind you -- and received SPECIAL PERMISSION to have the abortions because she had been such a devout Christian.
Ain't it cool?
This is just the tip of the iceberg in her case. Needless to say, I loathed her to no end and she thought I was Lucifer himself.
This is the kind of conservative Palin appeals to: the kind who says "Don't do what I do, do what I SAY!" You know, the kind who thinks it makes sense when that swine Rush Limbaugh, upon becoming exposed as a pill-popper after excoriating drug addicts on the air for years, says "Yes, but does it mean I was wrong about drug addicts in general?"
Fuck 'em, fuck 'em all. -
That is a very close summary of the difference between the parochial and the truly fucking insular- Parochials characteristically have a naive, sunny outlook- and no nothing about the outside through no particular fault, whereas the truly fucking insular are those that know about the outside world full fucking well but don't fucking like it and really DON'T FUCKING NEED IT. For an example of this mindset, look no further than Ms. First passport in her 40's. And this insular twat has a good chance of inheriting McCain's soiled mantle.
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electing somoene that never left fucking Alaska until a few years ago to the presidency? She has so little grasp of the world that she makes Bush look like Google Earth. And then to justify it with the staggeringy boneheaded "She has experience because Alaska is close to Russia" just defies logic. Seriously, if you lived near the ocean would it make you a fish?
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The sloppy use of this term always bugs me. "Semite" refers to ethnic groups from all over the Middle East. It includes the Jews but isn't limited to them. The Arabs are every bit as semitic. In fact they're more semitic, since the original Jewish bloodlines have been so mingled with European ones due to the centuries of the diaspora.
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Coffee, meet keyboard, by way of nose.
Cheers, Jarv. -
hehehehe
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That's a stunning retort... "shitbag". I have a fair idea who you're voting for. Now stop smelling your finger and register to vote you fucking anal spunk bucket.
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Point taken - but I watch as much news as I can, including Fox. But what am I gonna do, tune in to Bill O Reilly on a regular basis!? I love The Daily Show, but it isn't exactly the only election coverage I watch. If you're truly interested in a neutral view, watch and read non-American news coverage online. The Guardian.co.uk and the BBC.co.uk all have well informed, unbiased election coverage. How can that be biased? There is no agenda for them.
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That is some funny shit.
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Did you fail economics?First, does it makes sense to cut your revenue stream (taxes) when your costs (war, bailouts, etc) skyrocket? Increases the budget deficit, no? The increase in the deficit slows down the overall economy. Sure, there is a short term growth, but that quickly fades away. And don't you think there's interest associated with those tax cuts since the government had to borrow?The benefit from Bush's tax cuts lasted about 3 years per the Congressional Budget Office. So much for the long term, right?
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How much hirer do gas and food prices have to go? How much worse does the economy have to get? How much more value does your home have to drop? How many more young men and women have to die in a senseless war? How much more power and respect does America have to lose worldwide?
Is it really worth it? No one is making YOU get an abortion. No one is making YOU marry a same sex partner. If someone else wants to do, it’s none of your business, worry about yourself!!! Worry about your own pocket and your own life!! Vote Democrat!!
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Let's hope the job market is better for prices...
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Samus Aran said: "Louis Farrakhan has spoken several times... and he looked fine to me."
Well, that settles it then.
You're a Rhodes Scholar, Samus.
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Very well put!
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"How about listen to a little of everyone- including FoxNews and Rush..."
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Ah. I think I've found your problem.
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How about for the next three months YOU get your news from just two sources: The Christian Science Monitor and The Economist? -
How are your stocks?
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Oh well. Everyone just read "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy."
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Fred laughed very hard at that google earth comment! Fred warming up the popcorn hoping for some fireworks today! Flame Wars Fred
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As I understand it, the BBC is not unbiased. However I haven't been listening to them, so I can't say for sure. But to say that there is no possible reason for them to be biased is pretty rediculous. They care what happens in our country too, and if they interject their wishes into their coverage- voila, bias. Bias isn't a big deal, I don't know of any news source that doesn't have a bias, I just think it's good to listen to everyone. I tend to gravitate to the bias that supports my point of view, I admit- because I am petty. But I listen to other sources from time to time as well, because I don't want to be entirely blind.
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...and Wall Street's biggest drop in seven years are economic hallmarks of the last 8 years. Why would anyone trust another Republican administration with the economy after such dismal results?
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Can you answer me how Obama is going to improve on each of the problems you stated? I know that I can't explain how McCain is going to improve on some of those problems, but I can on some. The problems you stated are: gas, food, economy, home value, men and women in senseless war (well I know how he is going to solve that problem, but I think his solution creates a new huge problem), loss of respect abroad (well I know how he is going to solve that problem, and he probably will succeed in that). Well that was about it. So I guess just tell me what he is going to do about those economic problems. I've asked this question of people a few times here, and nobody knows the answer, because Obama has never given an answer. Well he has given one answer which is pretty good. He will give tax incentives for companies to keep jobs in america. That's a good start, but it's only a start. And how do I know that will be enough to work for that specific problem?
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Sep 16, 2008 10:38:35 AM CDT
Fred, let's see if we can't give you a reason to...
by hawaiian organ donor
...crack open your popcorn bag.After watching the stock market tumble and knowing full well the reverberations the banking and insurance industry collapse are going to have over the months to come, I don't think one candidate has the magic solution to fix the problem.That said, for all the crap I give Obama about being a corporate stooge just like every other politician on the beltway, at least he's not parroting soundbites from Bush and trying to sell Americans a used car out of alignment with no steering wheel."The fundamentals of our economy are strong?" McCain has been saying this exact same line since the primaries and Bush has said it word for word as well.The fundamentals aren't strong, bonehead. Banks loaned out money to homeowners that couldn't afford them and insurance companies like AIG insured the banks to cover the cost of non-payment and foreclosure and if the government steps in to save AIG, they'll be passing the bill off to us. Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul.And the Fed may go with ye olde kneejerk reaction and reduce interest rates. But guess what? That accomplishes nothing as banks are skeptical to hand out loans right now because they'll need that money to bail themselves out.It's an Amway economy. It's setup to fail.People don't need additional fearmongering as right now the GOP already has us on high alert with terrorism, illegals, gay marriage, and drill here drill now, but for McCain to hand us a corn-filled turd and call it potpourri is insulting.
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Wallstreet was fine until democrats took control of the senate- then it started dropping, actually almost immediately. How is that reason to elect more democrats? Home prices were good until the democrats took control of the senate, then they started dropping. Now this could well have been moreso Bushes fault, but my main point is that it isn't so cut and dry. The senate is as I understand it collectively as powerful as the president.
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Obamamama is all Bark and no Bite.
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"gas" - proposes raising CAFE standards 3% per year, then helping cover enormous tranition costs by partially subsidizing auto industry's retiree health care exposure in exchange for CAFE guarantees. And perhaps most importantly, supports the ADS, the alternative diesel standard. Clean diesel. It's why Europeans get great mileage.
"food" - supports reducing the massive U.S. subsidies to ethanol, shifting emphasis to cellulose-conversion biofuels.
"economy" - energy rebates for cold-weather homes - very important for those of us in the northeast, where the coming onset of winter is starting to cause a bit of a panic. Also, he would raise the SS tax level from 99k to 102k, BUT create a middle-income gap in the 45-60 range for middle class earners. This would probably prevent - in the short term anyways - any necessity to push back the SS eligibility age.
"home value" - he's been endorsed by the three past chairmen of the SEC, because he favors tighter eregulation of the lending market that would prevent the kind of housing bubble we are seeing now.
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Well Fox is widely regarded as being a haven for the conservatively minded newshound, no? While the likes of The Daily Show would be liberalist, despite claiming to represent the disjointed centre. My point is that the BBC won't have a hand in whoever wins this election, thus they're far more likely to offer a more congenial overview of the election. As are the likes of The Guardian and The Irish Times. From what I can tell, from browsing online, election coverage is being reported on all cases and not dictated from the aforementioned outlets. Also, while you make a fair point asking how Obama could "better" certain issues, you fail to see the overall picture. The world outside of America (citizens, not the media) supports Barack Obama by something like nine to one. Do you not think it's easier to see what's going on when you're standing outside the kitchen looking at the chef's fighting!? Obama as president with invigorate the world's economy as confidence in America grows, from a popular, policy driven man in charge. Obama was criticized for spewing mere rhetoric at while still in the primaries; but that's all McCain and Palin have done since. Mark my words, he may profess to bring change, and even might at first, but McCain will soon descend into another clone of Bush. Palin meanwhile, is just fucking dangerous. That woman scares me, and she should you as well.
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Samus Aran said: "Wallstreet was fine until democrats took control of the senate..."
Dude.;
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Do you really think that the collapse of the housing market was due to Democrats taking the Senate?You do realize it was only a matter of time before the housing market fell on its face. The whole supply/demand thing: overbuilding of houses, increasing energy prices (higher construction costs and whatnot), giving out mortgages to anyone...It follows the cyclical pattern, I mean, who could keep buying houses at the same rate that they were skyrocketing in value?And both of their tax plans would greatly increase the budget deficit UNLESS a ton of governmental spending was cut. Do you honestly think that will happen? More importantly, if McCain were to be elected and was to not make it through his term, would you trust Palin to slash spending as much as McCain's proposed tax cuts are? BTW, the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's tax cuts amount to $4.2 TRILLION for the period 2009 - 2018, Obama's is $2.9 TRILLION.
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That explains a lot. Stop watching 24 hour news networks. You'll be better for it.
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Two wrongs don't make a right...
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Sep 16, 2008 11:09:29 AM CDT
good to see the people that can't be swayed on either side
by irrelevntelefant
are still trying to sway each other....
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I've been saying it since the primaries. Sadly McCain will win as Americans stupidly see the rich old white guy as comfort food. And we all know comfort food is usually fattening crap that does you no favors.And no, there won't be race riots. Just 47% of the country driving to work on November 5th with an expression like they were raped while they slept.
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Sep 16, 2008 11:14:11 AM CDT
The Ruling Class Applauds Your Fear. It is Useful to Them.
by kazamasmokers
"I can see that it's inevitable that this country will slip farther and farther into socialism..."
... but you're okay with theocratic feudalism, apparently. -
Jesus you are dumb as rocks. And a raging xenophobe. Obama doesn't care about this country? And what makes McCain a hero? Becasue he participated in bombing raids that evaporated MILLIONS of civilians in an unjust war? Just....just stop.
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Sep 16, 2008 11:18:35 AM CDT
Come on.. we all know what this election is really about:
by kazamasmokers
It's the U.S. vs. The Confederacy... just like the past two elections.
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It's incredibly naive to think that the democrats were responsible for the housing markets decline. That's ill-informed finger pointing
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Most of the posts in this talkback are evidence that some people are just too stupid or ignorant to make an informed decision to vote. If you're not going to get a political education, please don't vote. Uninformed voting is worse than not voting at all. Why is the importance placed on voting rather than for voting for a reason? Think about it -- the people who want you to vote for voting's sake don't care if you've thought it out -- they just want you to vote for them. If you're too apathetic to make an effort to register and vote on your own, you shouldn't be convinced to do it because more than likely you haven't put the mental effort into making a valid choice either.
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I for one had a lot of respect for John McCain. He is a war hero, but he's also leaned so far to the right he's in danger of falling over. He's now simply pandering to the fucking morons that voted for Bush twice. His legacy is forever tarnished in my view, regardless of the elections outcome.
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Geez. You guys are...misguided. First-up, Coughlin. Lets take that assertion of yours about McCain loving this country more than Obama (whom you implied does not love the country at all). Would a person who loves his country, who would want to see a strong and powerful America, an America with wise and solid leadership, an America that would continue to be great even after he was gone from power, would that person, who has been a genuine reformer - in the past, that person who has genuinely opposed his own party over issues he felt would compromise his values, that person, who has never coddled the extremists in his party, that person who was smeared eight years ago by his own partys now incumbent president, that person who has suffered multiple cancer bouts and though is 'only' 72, has suffered more physical abuse than most American's ever will. Would that person who you Coughlin think, loves this country so much, would he select as his running mate, a person with near zero knowledge of how this country - let alone the world operates, a person whose only attribute is that she brings ultra conservative values. Would a man who loves his country really place it in such jeopardy because he so desperately wants to win the Presidency, and could care less what would happen to the country if he died in office and it was left to Sarah Palin to run? Do you really think he loves this country more than he wants to be President at any cost? Do you? He could have chose Kay Bailey Hutchinson from Texas if he wanted a strong, knowledgeable female. He chose Palin, because he wanted to shore up his conservative wing. He could have chose Tom Ridge if he wanted a great leader. He chose Palin, because he wanted to shore up his conservative support. He could have chose Mitt Romney if he wanted conservative values. He chose Palin because she beleives in creationism. Yeah he really loves this country. Samus - boy that line about the Dems in the senate being responsible for housing crisis. I laughed so hard I cried. There are 49 Democratic Senators, and two independents. It takes 60 votes to be filibuster proof. So even if your ludricrous, unfounded, unsupported assertion -even by you because you have not show one shred of proof to support such a ridiculous statement. Even if the Dems had passed such legislation, the Republicans could stop it. And even if THEY did not, there is this little thing called a Presidential veto. But of course none of that came into to being, because it was NOT the Dems who created this mess. It was greedy, money driven poliies launched by wall street firms, and large banks who felt secure enough because they were 'protected' by the influence they thought they had with -well lets see which party is generally considered the most money loving - free market, capitalistic of them all? Hmmm?
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1. If the Democrats are wrong, and 4 years from now McCain has helped put America in a much better place than it is today, that’s a good thing for America. (cause in the end, that’s what is what it is all about, advancing the prosperity of America… isn’t it?)
2. If McCain turns out to be McSame, as the Democrats believe, and in 4 years America is still struggling or worse off than it is today, then the Democrats have an excellent chance in 2012 to win the White House.
In 2012, Obama will have 4 more years of experience, Hilary would/should still be a viable candidate, or even maybe a new face will emerge as the Democratic front runner. (someone with experience, of course)
So if you are an Democrat or Obamamaniac, vote McCain 2008/ Obama 2012
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Denigrating one's war service worked for you cocksuckers against John Kerry last time out.
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We've already been though your parties skewing attacks of Obama (Ayers, Wright) and you've been proved wrong everytime. Why go through it again?
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Well as much as I love insulting you in this fun filled talkback you have hit on a really interesting point "KazamaSmokers
It's the U.S. vs. the Confederacy... just like the past two elections. "
Begrudgingly I must admit that feels spot on
Oh don't get all weird on me for agreeing on a single point no doubt that you will hurl other insults at me from your high place where you sit in judgment of all you deem lesser
Just remember Kazama and Lost Jarv (two wonderfully hate filled flamers)
The fact remains I do Live in the South, born and raised in VA, and recently moved to TX, I have visited almost every State in the US (notable exception of Hawaii), I have Visited overseas to the following countries
Turkey, Germany, England, Tajikistan, Afghanistan so I have experienced more than just the south (figured I would respond before you bitches complain I haven't ever left my precious right wing southern hillbilly brethren and wouldn't know what other countries are like)
Instead I will ask you oh evolved ones; have you EVER been to the United States? How about the South? Which states?
Mostly curious to your answers on this. I look forward to my disgust of you two each and every day...
I am your other side
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"So, the Democrat Party" ---> Obviously you meant to say "Democratic Party" and not use the right-wing talk radio buzz phrase... right?
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"It was the vast majority of those that served with Kerry that denigrated his service."
----> There wasn't a single Swiftboater who actually served with Kerry. But you knew that.... right? -
NONE of the Swift Boat Veterans EVER served with Kerry. Keep lying. As for finding Vets against McCain that was pretty easy:
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
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I'll gladly answer your question... but first let me ask you: which candidate are you supporting?
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“I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”
He also admits that the Vietnamese responded by rushing him to a military hospital normally kept unavailable
to U.S. prisoners, but denies the “special medical
treatment” he was given was because of his promise to collaborate. -
You're typing with one hand, aren't you?
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You think I don't know cunts like you and your party will lie and cheat your way to the presidency again? Doesn't make you any less of a douchebag. Obama worked with Ayers to help the poor 30 years after he was with the WU (an org. trying to stop McCain from evaporating more civilians) and after he was pardoned and working as a college professor. The same with Wright who also advocates for the poor and served in the MARINES for 6 years I might add. God damn Americans like you, Coughlins!
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Check your facts. None of the SBVT served with Kerry, except for Stephen Gardner, was not present on any of the occasions when Kerry won his medals.
Have some self-respect, man. -
Visit McCain's, Obama's, Ron Paul's and whomever else's websites and download the PDFs of what they actually plan to do and what they stand for.
Vote what you believe to be the best course for the US. -
... as a typical example of the modern Republican. Please read all his posts.
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Sep 16, 2008 12:40:03 PM CDT
No, I'm making the point that you are intentionally and dishones
by kazamasmokers
You ARE aware, aren't you, that John McCain has repudiated EVERY ONE of the allegations made by SBVT? You ARE aware, aren't you, that of the 3,500 Swift Boat Veterans, fewer than 250 joined SBVT when asked? And I'm sure you're aware that the founder of the group went to Vietnam six months after Kerry had left? But somehow, I think you're most aware of Thomas Pynchon's famous quote: "If you can get people to ask the wrong questions, you don't have to worry about the answers."
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You've named yourself after a ridiculously awful film though. Not surprising considering what a mouthbreathing moron you are.
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Ok fine I will look into those answers you provided for what Obama will do with these problems. One thing I do know about is housing, and what you said he plans on doing doesn't sound like it would help the problem, but instead increase the problem. You said that he will push for tighter regulation of lending practices- maybe I am not understanding you right, but do you mean that lending will be more strict than it is now? The whole problem is that lending practices are way way too strict. They were way too relaxed a couple of years ago, and I have heard it suggested that democrats are the ones that pushed for more relaxed lending practices back then- thus the magnitude of our current problem. Now as I said, lending practices went the other way entirely. It is almost impossible for anyone to get a loan. The housing bubble is over- it popped. Our housing market is currently undervalue, and it will have to correct itself upward, probably in 2009, I think almost sooner it will start. The problem that keeps the market from correcting itself upwards is that lending practices are too strict right now. People who know what is going on in real estate would love to start buying like crazy, but it is too hard to get loans. If Obama plans on tightening that up more- that is going to hurt things. Somehow I don't think that is what he plans, because he is smarter than that. Anyways, yes I think it is possible that democrats contributed to the current housing problem- how much I don't know. I know that we were headed this way anyway, but I think they inflated the problem. Without them, we would already be improving our home values, as far as I can tell.
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"You just admitted that 250 of the SBVT served with Kerry."
... I see you're not taking any of this debate seriously. I will consider myself thoroughly trolled. Well done. -
(fucking unconscionable boatloads of money, the media, hell, even on lots of the issues) and they still might fuck it up by using racebaiting, misogyny, namecalling, hypocrisy and other kinds of just plain bad behavior. Face it guys, you're just not easy to like. If you just had some class you might be able to take this thing back. Democrats 2008 - Feel the Hate!
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"If you want to make the case that those 250 veterans were lying about Kerry when not ONE SINGLE PERSON FROM THE KERRY CAMP EVER DISPUTED WHAT THEY SAID."
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"Kerry's actual crewmembers have disputed SBVT's various allegations: "totally false" (Drew Whitlow), "garbage" (Gene Thorson), and "a pack of lies" (Del Sandusky)" [SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE]
==
Next. -
9/10 of foreigners want Obama because almost every country outside of the US is left leaning. That's all there is too it. I don't think we need to take advice from them, they haven't shown us how a country such as ours can be the most proserous. We have been the most prosperous with our political philosophies. When other countries can demonstrate a more succesful method, then I'm sure we will pay attention. We may be in a bit of a mess right now, but soon enough we will demonstrate our clear success. Can I ask you, which country has demonstrated a better more succesful approach?
And this clone of bush bussiness is funny. In a way that is true. We need someone far more conservative than both bush and McCain. You liberals should be very happy that Republicans put forth such centrist politicians, but you're not. You want conservatives to elect a thurough liberal, or you never stop bitching. And another thing. I was asking a friend of mine who works in business loans, and as such is very sensitive to the current economy, which canidate will help the economy the most- He said that the media has been completely exagerating the problems of the economy, and because of that- the economy suffers. He said that if Obama is elected, the media will be happy, and they will stop doing that- and we can have a nice economy, basically because they say so. Are you not disgusted by that? I am. The Media most definately decides who we are to elect, and they will punnish us if we dare to oppose them as the american people. I might just vote for Obama so that I can have a pleased media. The days of free elections seem over. NBC and CNN decide our presidents now. -
You don't know me very well do you? If you were on these boards for any other reason but to troll and make hysterical and inaccurate rants you'd know that I have repeatedly lambasted DGDB for his tasteless moniker. But were relatively cool now so I've learned to overlook it. Anyway farewell. I've grown tired once agian of your outright lies and strawman arguments. Until the next time.
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are left leaning should tell you something Samus.
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"9/10 of foreigners want Obama because almost every country outside of the US is left leaning. That's all there is too it."=== THAT'S NOT TRUE, THOUGH. Most nations outside the US are actually to the right of the US.
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"We may be in a bit of a mess right now, but soon enough we will demonstrate our clear success."
"You liberals should be very happy that Republicans put forth such centrist politicians."
"He said that the media has been completely exagerating the problems of the economy, and because of that- the economy suffers." -
I'm not good at figuring that out, please educate me. What does that tell us? Many other countries are pissed that we are so succesfull here, and then they want us to listen to their recipe for success. Why would we follow the advice of the least successful among us?
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Holy crap, that must've been a big boat! Dude, you're embarassing yourself.
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"...of the least successful among us?"
Because he's our current President? -
There is nothing wrong with being against Obama and for McCain or vice versa. But it is ludicrous to suggest that Sarah Palin was the best candidate for VP that McCain could pick. It was a cynical, shameful, pick used only to shore up his flagging conservative support. Palin is the soup du jour - for the moment. Fine. But no one in their right thinking mind and that includes many, many republicans (see the Peggy Noonan 'off mike' comments blasting Palins inexperience), believes she is ready to run America or even be VP. The polls love her now. She gave a great speech, and is very telegenic. So what that she blew it in her first unscripted interview - and uh, how many has she done since? So what that she is being protected by the McCain campaign because she has no knowledge of doemstic or foreign policy. Hey she was a governor! So what that the press following her have zero access to her - because the McCain campiagn is afraid of her answers. That is all meaningless. Right? So what that Obama and Biden answer every question - whether you like the answer or not. So what that Obama and Biden are open to the press. So what that Obama and Biden are not being hidden because they can not be trusted not to put their feet in their mouths. Hey McCain does that by himself. 'Strong fundamental economy' ring a bell? Hey, giving a great speech and being telegenic has worked before for the republicans. But saying that a former mayor of 6k people, and a governor of less than two years of 600k people, is experienced is really drinking the koolaid. It is putting the blinders on and accepting the party line no matter the cost. It is a shameful and pitiful and cynical calculation on McCains part, to win no matter the cost. I have zero problem with people against Obama -as long as it is fair and on the issues. Obama IS lacking experience. Obama - HAS changed positions. I am not sold on Obama, but I am far more likely to vote for him, over a man who has completely sold out his integrity for one last shot at the brass ring. And McCain was and is a war hero by any definition. But that does not make him qualified to be President.
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Who? and by the way, way more than half of my family is from all over the world, and I don't say damn foreigners. I love other countries immensely. I just don't see that their governments are the best examples of success. But I ask you, which countries are more right leaning than us. Who among them pushes for smaller government, lower taxes, less involvment of the government in the publics lives? Who is doing this more than United States?
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Makes a change from him spreading lies about the current race though. Always knew he was as classy as the swiftboaters.
oh BTW in case you have been on the moon for the past couple of days..
IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID.
ARE YOU BETTER OFF NOW THAN 4 YEARS AGO ? -
Because, God Damn it I want to fuck her (there, I said it). I'd fuck Obama, but my parents would never forgive me.
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If you're such an easy mark that you can be taken in by a keating 5 Senator and an evangelical who believes cavemen fought with dinosaurs, then you're going to need a lot of help (from that Jesus guy who Palin believes is coming back in the next few years) to get through the next few months. BTW, can I interest you in any fine Amway products?
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Keep throwing out that "x" percent of people who think Palin is ready to be a leader as it is another log on the bonfire of our national embarrassment.Over 50% of Americans believe in angels80% believe in miraclesNearly 2/3's of Americans can't point Iraq out on a mapNealy 3/4's think English is the most widely spoken language in the worldThe majority of Americans still don't know that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi77% of Americans cannot name all three branches of their governmentSo Coughlin, I don't put any faith in the intelligence of Americans as we are dumber and more ignorant than dirt.
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Right-leaning: the majority of nations. Left-leaning: the majority of western nations. Govts that are the best examples of success: those with a higher standard of living and a higher freedom index than the U.S.
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I see no reason why the Flintstones can't be taught alongside Bible stories with the warning that Fred and Barney are just one way of looking at the world and may just be a "theory".
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Ok good. I'm glad you and I agree. You mentioned Sarah's lack of experience. She has 2 years experience as a governor, Obama has 142 days as a senator. Those are their main resumes. Which one sounds like the more experience? It has been 45 years since we last elected someone strait out of the senate, but we have elected people strait from governorships many many times. I naturally place more weight on the responsibilities of a governor over a senator- I don't even have to think about it, that was my feeling long before Obama and Palin. A Senator writes legislation and makes speaches, A Governor governs the state. She spent more time in a higher experience office than he did in a lower experience office. Even if you ignore all else- I can't believe how people are attacking her lack of experience in light of his lack of experience.
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Have you even been to Europe?
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Oh really, a country as big as ours with a higher standard of living. I know that Lichtenstein is the highest per capita income, thus they probably have the highest standard of living. They are also so incredibly small, their country looks like a speck on the map of Europe. Show me a country even close to being as vast as ours that is anywhere near as succesfull as we are. Those small tiny countries DO NOT COUNT. Of course they do well sometimes- they are little pockets of wealth here and there dotting the world landscape.
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You really need to write a book HOD. LOL.
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yes many times. I have been all over the world. and visited plenty of countries including China, Russia, Finland, France, England, Sweden, Mexico, Estonia, Norway and even one of those tiny super prosperous countries KazamaSmokers brought up as more succesful than United States- Monoco. Don't even question my travel.
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"McCain was totally cleared and vindicated of any wrong doing whatsoever" ==== OOOH, wrong again. But hey, at least you're consistent. Let's review what McCain did, shall we? I'm sure you'd rather another pointless distraction, but allow me to educate you. Even Wikipedia will suffice on this one. McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981, and McCain was the closest socially to Keating of the five senators.Like DeConcini, McCain considered Keating a constituent as he lived in Arizona.Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates. In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln. McCain was brought before the Senate ethics committee, which concluded that, while his actions were improper, they did not fit the statutory conditions for legal action to be brought. In essence, he got off on a technicality. But hey, YOU be the judge of his political character.
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Name a few of those right leaning nations. I don't have any clue who you have in mind. I'm serious, I'm not just being a wiseass here.
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Ont surface, it seems the wrong pick. Surely Hillary would have been better. Right? No. She would not have. Consider: They had a very contentious primary. Hillary did everything but burn down his house to stop him, now they are all ready to serve together? Political exigency trumps reason you say? Uh, not in this case. The people and media would tear into that choice as being a cynical move. So what if it works you say? Well, why would it? Hillary may have been loved by member of the Dem party, but she still had some of the highest negatives of any politician when it came to the rest of the country. Point two: Hillary is the more qualified nominee. There I said it. She knows it as well. Do you really think she would be happy with being a powerless number two? How long would it take before friction between both camps overflowed? Would it be in the campaign or in office? Can you take that chance? Point Three: The Clinton circus. Hillary does not come alone. Remember Bill? When the focus should be on YOU as the party's nominee, do you really want the potential circus of the Clintons hanging around your neck? Point four: Biden is a cynical choice. There I said it. He is the old 'wise' experienced white man. Obama could not go young with Kaine or Bayh. He needed someone who had gravitas. Was Biden the best choice? I do not think so, but he was the best after Edwards self-destructed. On the whole, Biden is a better choice than Clinton. Will he lose votes over the choice? Maybe. But they will not defect to McCain in any large numbers. They could stay home though - and that is the risk he chose to take.
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Like most conservatives, you're insulated in your nice little bubble. I work in the corporate office of a specialty grocery chain and although most of the employees in this office are doing ok, the blue collar ones who work in the stores are not. The majority of them are either taking hardship loans on their 401(k) or stopping 401(k) contributions completely. Either way, they are shooting themselves in the foot come retirement time. These blue collar workers represent the majority of Americans. You and your ilk can fly off to Vegas for a weekend of blow and hookers and not feel the pinch, but the hard working folks in the trenches who make your lifestyle possible are scrambling to pay the bills.Get out and do some volunteer work just ONCE for the less fortunate and see what 8 years of Bush economics has done for them.
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Way to teach those crumb bums from Worshington about pork and corruption McCain!
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Before Edwards got caught in that hotel in Beverly Hills, you would have liked him better than Biden? You would have prefered that ambulance chaser? I am not sure what you have said about Palin, but I will assume you can't stand her. So in your mind "Ambulance Chaser > Governor of Alaska".
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Did any of them not involve you living on military bases? Just asking. Regardless I guess it comes down to how you define success. If you mean the accumulation of wealth than yeah the U.S. is pretty good at gobbling up wealth and resources.
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Dude, pay attention. Not all governors are created equal. Some are powerful, some are no more that party heads. Some have control of the state, while others are mere puppets of the lege. Guess what governor of a large state had weak powers? Give up? Texas, and GWB. Palin, was a governor for less than two years of a state with a pop the size of a neighborhood in my city. Does that make my alderman just as qualified as Palin? Now, lets look at experience vs knowledge. Is Palin in the same intellectual class of A: GWB B: Obama? C: Even less than GWB? She has NO knowledege of how this country works, or the world for that matter. It does not matter if you come from a small state like Arkansas (Clinton was a Rhodes scholar), but you had better have knowledge of how the country and the world is run. And she does not. Obama does.
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...as we are simply choosing another wolf to run the henhouse.I don't want to vote for either Obama or McCain. I'd like a third party candidate who has zero ties to corporations. If I wasn't living in what could very well be a swing state this election, I'd cast my vote for Bob Barr just as a means of letting the big two know more and more people want a third choice even if Bobby is a little bugnuts.To me, current elections are nothing more than a boiling pot. Eventually we will get tired of electing corporate lackeys into office and when enough Americans are out of work and lose the roof over the heads and are at the end of their rope, they'll be storming the castle walls.
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From Asia? Malaysia. Indonesia. China (now considered fascist/capitalist by many political modelers). From Africa: pick your dictatorship. From South America: Argentina, Chile, Colombia.
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No I Have never been in the millitary. I traveled to those countries to see them for fun and in some cases to visit family. I love most of those countries a lot, but not one of them has a government that makes the peoples lives better than ours- well maybe Monoco, but that is just because the only people that can live there are rich already. And I mean SUPER RICH. Again, KazamaSmokers, countries like that do not have more effective governments than ours. Those countries are more like sons of Oil Tycoons- they are rich because they were born rich. Countries like United States are a lot harder to gaurantee wealth- we are too large for such an easy gaurantee.
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why McCain was living it up on a yacht owned by Anne Hathaway's exboyfriend? You know...the CON MAN.
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Loved how McCain flip-flopped in mere hours after painting the Economy as "strong" then changed his mind realising how foolish he looked as carnage ran through Wall Street.
AIG matters. Even more than Lehmam Brothers did. -
Because, at the end of the day, like most Democrats, Obama come off like your high school science teacher. Sure, he's a nice guy, but does anyone really want responsible government? Hell no, we want crazy ass motherfuckers and motherfuckesses. The only reason Clinton did well is because he was a bad boy too. Screw Woodrow Wilson, give us Huey Long and Marion Berry. I think what Americans are most interested in is finding the WORST candidate that is likely to provide the most possible amusement. Like George W. Bush, for example. I mean sure, the country is a mess, but wasn't it FUN having an idiot for a President. Wasn't it fun being smarter that he is? Let's face it, we like 'em crazy, we like 'em senile and if they cum all over a blue dress we like that best of all. McCain the fighter jock and Palin the bible Bimbo are PERFECT for this country. Yeeehaaa!
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and I'm voting for Obama because he makes me horny!!!!
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Payrolls are already being slashed. There's no real job creation going on right now. The banks are going under, insurance companies are going under, HP and the automakers are laying off tens of thousands of people. So tell me, how has having a Republican in the White House benefited the American worker? If you honestly think McCain is going to stem the tide, you're delusional.Once again, Obama's not my guy and he doesn't have a magic wand. I don't think I'll be better off in four years with him in office. I'm going to get slammed by my liberal brethren but I don't believe one is any better than the other.The only reason I don't want McCain to win is I can't stand the sight or sound or the guy.It's like a choosing between getting a handjob by the Handjob World Champion who looks like Edith Bunker or one from a very inexperienced Playboy model. In the end the result is the same, but you're going to choose getting off to the one you can stand to look at.
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LOL, you actually made me laugh. You think communist China is more right leaning? Oh my hell I can't believe what liberals think. My wife is from China. Somehow based on your simplistic understanding of Fascism, you think Fascism equals Right leaning. And you think Dictatorships equals right leaning. Yes Wu Jintau is a dictator, but that does not mean he leans right. In fact he leans very far left. Fascism starts when a leader exploits the anger of the poor class, and inspires them to submit unconditionally to his inspired leadership in exchange for his solution to their problems. My description here may still be simplistic, but it is a lot more accurate than your understanding of it which is, dictatorship equals fascism equals right wing. You only think that because you understand Hitler to be right wing. Well Stalin was left wing and he was also a dictator- do you not know that? What is going on in Africa are a lot of War Lords dominating people through force. This is not similar to republicans if you think so. I don't know Malaysia and Indonesias government system, but somehow based on how wrong you were with your other examples, You must be wrong on those too. Argentina? Are you freaking serious? Indeed they probably are fascist, because once upon a time they were a very prosperous nation, very prosperous. Then some politicians came along and helped flame anger among the poor, and created a government in which companies could no longer prosper,so they left. Now Argentina suffers, they may never get what they had back. Indeed they may have fascism- left leaning fascism. I'm suprised you didn't mention Cuba. They have a similar story. But you probably think they are on the right track.
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...he's all about Israel and his health care plan does nothing to fix the central problem of HMO's. He seems also to buy all the right wing nonsense about the threat Iran represents....but he is an infinitely better choice that McCain.
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Obama is fighting perceptions that no Presidential nominee has ever encountered before. The biggest being: Race. Obama has to convince an electorate that he is calm and cool (which is the easy part because he is) in the face of adversity, but he must also show that he has the experience (which he does not)and wisdom to lead. Thus his choice of the 'wise' old white man Biden. Do not put too much stock in the change motto. Look at what McCain is running under. The same word.
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Clean-up on Aisle 5!
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Fair enough question, originally it was Ron Paul; it has since changed to McCain, though he is not what I really wanted, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt more than Obama, as even I admit to likening Obama when he first started the campaign trail (way better than Hillary, her I met once, Bitch-numero Uno)speeches in a way he reminded me of Kennedy (got to catch his speech in person at the Democratic primary speeches in Missouri) but on careful reflection on some of his policies he intends to bring about I most certainly will fight tooth and nail on (I'll just give one example but an explanation is in order I think for this) his stance on nuclear weapons being removed from ready status (others here are probably better able to explain)not on a 24/7 battle ready stance which I am most whole heartedly against we need those ready at all times! (if McCain said the same I would drop him like a bag of hammers) and that is not the only reason but its one of my most strong felt; I will continue to monitor this all the way up until the day I vote, (hey Obama could still surprise me) till then McCain will get my vote unless he grossly screws up my current image and knowledge of what issues are he will deal with and the decisions he intends to make.
So it’s a good race as far as I can tell, can't quite call a winner yet by a long shot
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The "fascist capitalism" designation comes from that bastion of left-wing craziness, the Wall Street Journal.
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I have to agree with you there. Obama's seemingly gung ho support of Israel and his tough talk on Iran are worrisome. But I'm also hoping he's saying it just to get elected. Because let's face it--if you say you're going to put restrictions on Israeli aid and that you might not necessarily think Iran is a threat to the U.S., you're going to be shouted off the platform by AIPAC, the neocons, and the rest of their ilk that are currently driving our foreign policy.
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And you totally missed the only country I can think of that might be as right leaning as we are- Japan. However, that is just my perception, I need to look closer into that.
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What are you talking about? All I can see is that you don't know what Fascism is. You are so scared of fascism that you seem to be running into the arms of the most likely fascists. Obama promises you great change and to help the poor, all he asks is that you expand his government and give him more power over our lives. Let me clue you in, all fascists are not religious, they are not all white, and they are not all right wing. During World War II, fascists happened to be right wing, but that is not the only flavor it comes in- learn what fascism is. Consider the possibility that your excitement for the democrat party may mirror the German excitement for the exciting new Nationalist Socialist party. I'm not saying it is definately true, but it is not entirely dissimilar. Angry poor germans were pretty energized by Hitler's exciting new ideas for "Change". I am not suggesting that Obama is the same- I don't think he is, but I'm just saying it is a lot more similar than McCains position right now.
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Sep 16, 2008 2:37:50 PM CDT
damn, wish I didn't get high all through civics class
by irrelevntelefant
all these "isms" is confusicating...
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The WSJ characterizes China's "third way" as "fascist capitalism". Their designation. Not mine. Put the gun down, son.
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Hopefully what you say turns out to be true. One thing Obama isn't, is a fool. Nothing to do but wait, see and hope I guess.
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Huck will cure him of that strayin urge...
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It was the nationalism of national socialism (Nazism) that was it's ultimate downfall. The hyper-patriotic, militaristic, racist nature of nationalism is what destroyed Germany. Most of Nazism's alliances were on the political right.
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They are communist. Are you somehow trying to deny that? Are you somehow trying to say that Communism isn't left wing? China somehow seems to be trying to embrace capitalism- they clearly want to dramatically improve their economic standing in the world- and they are not stupid people. They understand that capitalism is the way of the future for economics, yet somehow they seem to want to mix communism and capitalism. That is not a free country, and they are not right leaning. To me, conservativism is best described as the belief in the individual, and that individual's ability to succeed. It requires that the government stay OUT of the way of that individual- thus the government comes down in size and also taxes the individual less, allowing the individual to keep more of his money, so that he can use it best for his personal success. Listen to Michael Steele describe conservativism. This belief system might not seem so bitter to swallow if you listen to it coming from the mouth, not from a typical old white man, but from a black man who has come to his own conclusions in life. Go to Youtube and type in Michael Steele, you may come to understand where all us evil conservatives are coming from. I support every word that man says.
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I have no idea what you think your point is.
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Don't smoke those cigars from Bill Clinton's Humidor.
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I cannot think of a single dictator who rose to power from nothing, without first using the anger of the poor against the rich to fuel their support. You don't need to focus on anger towards the rich in order to help the poor. Helping the poor is a very noble cause, just don't do it by making them insanely angry. Do it by helping them, and sharing with them correct philosophies of success, this country is fertile ground for that.
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To beat them, the Democrats need Chris Rock, not Obama.
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the only reason Obama is the nominee is so that Will Smiff can play him in the movie.
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and Tina should match every outfit Palin wears at every debate...
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"I cannot think of a single dictator who rose to power from nothing, without first using the anger of the poor against the rich to fuel their support. " Dude - no offense, but you really are young aren't you? Just take a look at the lives of Military dictators. Most rose from nothing, but hardly used the anger of the poor masses to achieve or hang on to power. They used the power of the gun.
Khadafi, Hafez Al Assad, Pinochet. And there are many, many more
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...is they are always ready to sell their soul. What they abhor one day, they embrace the next."Earlier this year, right-wing luminary Paul Weyrich announced that, if John McCain secured the Republican presidential nomination, he'd be voting for a third party candidate. Weyrich told National Journal earlier this year that he questioned whether McCain had the temperament to be commander in chief because he was too hot-headed. But, of course, like just about every other right-wing leader who once declared McCain utterly unacceptable, Weyrich has changed his tune as he's the latest neocon to throw his support behind McCain."And then there's the ultimate case of foot in mouth disease."John McCain struck a tough, quasi-populist pose this morning during his morning sweep of the television news shows. Speaking to NBC's Matt Lauer about the current crisis on Wall Street, the Republican nominee said executives have 'treated it like a casino and need to be held accountable and stop walking away with these fat-cat packages.' Apparently McCain forgot the fact that one of his top economic advisers, former Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, walked away with a $42 million 'golden parachute' after being fired."
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Nice racial stereotyping Arcadian.
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Fey is a character on a successful TV show who people think is kind of hot. Palin has been riding in on Tina's coat tails. When she appeared, America already loved her.
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Yeah I am a real ingoramus. Fine I guess it is a good idea to rile up anger and hatred amongst the poor. Go ahead and let's do it again.
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Isn't Obama a Christian as well who believes his soul has been saved by the Blood of Jesus? Just askin'.
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The Republicans should make it their mascot.
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How did they rise from nothing if they already had the power of the gun? Was it just one gun in this persons hands, and he took the whole country hostage all by himself? I stand by what I said. Any dictator that had enough millitary support to overthrow a country, was not taking control of a country from nothing. I said rise up from nothing, not rise up with a militia behind him.
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"Christian" =/ "Revelationist".
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Sep 16, 2008 3:38:39 PM CDT
Samus Aran - you are not an ignoramus, you are ill informed
by toadkillerdog
You and Coughlins suffer from the same disease - political and cultural myopia. This is a very big world. A very complicated world. A very interlocked world. And it rarely breaks down to a simple black and white solution. Also, if you are going to post an opinion, be sure of your facts beforehand, do not just state what you feel, state what you KNOW. Here endeth the lesson. BTW I like a good debate. I like hearing opinions that I may disagree with. So please do not think I am being critical of your beliefs. I just want you to make your arguments based upon the truth and not simply because you feel a certain way. You open yourself up to extreme ridicule with statements about the Dems in the Senate being responsble for the current Housing crisis. I have not even heard Fox put forth that canard!
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Sep 16, 2008 3:42:04 PM CDT
MCCAIN'S ECONOMIC ADVISOR AND FORMER HP CEO, CARLY FIORINA
by bringingsexyback
said Palin is not fit to run HP.
That's nice.
"McCain's Victory 2008 chair Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, tells a St. Louis radio host that Palin would've been unqualified to lead HP--a slightly less demanding role than leading the free world. Today's exchange:
HOST: "Do you think she has the experience to run a major company like Hewlett Packard?"
FIORINA: "No, I don't. But that's not what she's running for.""
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yyc32ciiGs -
Instead of me giving you an example: As i did, please share three of your own.
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or lets say passed away before the election. And that is not offensive to bring up before you attack me. He is a 72 year old male with a history of cancer so its hardly unfair to lay it out as a possibility..lets say for whatever reason mccain pulled out before election day would conservatives seriously be happy with palin steeping in to be the first name on the ticket? would you happily run her for president?
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What facts am I wrong on? I know I don't know everything, just like you. Where am I wrong. And perhaps I am wrong about the democrat senate adding to the problems of the housing crisis, but I do think that they added to our economic problems. I specifically remember when they won in 2006, and I said to people, there goes our economic stability. If it seems rediculous to you that I would suggest that democrats have caused these problems, then you know how rediculous it seems to me that Bush has caused gas prices to go up, and that he was the great cause of all our economic woes. However, he has been spending like a democrat, so part of it seems true. You are mistaken if you don't think I knew ahead of time that we were naturally headed for a housing problem. I don't see how democrats could have caused that- though I barely see how republicans did either. Perhaps I spoke too potently because I am so irritated by liberals blaming every single problem on republicans. It is a richly complex situation- just as you pointed out. Have I been suggesting some simple solution? You guys are the ones with the simple solution. Elect Obama and all our problems will go away. I have said no such thing about McCain, nor has anyone else. I say elect McCain, and our problems will be less severe than they would be with Obama. I may be ill informed, or you might be. I am open to not only hearing what you liberals have to say. My mind is open enough that if you make sense, I might change my mind on something. I don't get the sense that is true of you. But I guess as a liberal you are naturally more open minded- so open minded that you have found a state of mind beyond being open minded- you're mind is just simply correct. A higher plane of open mindedness.
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At what point did I ever identify myself as a liberal? At what point did anything I wrote have a liberal feel towards it? In the words of Ronald Reagan " There you go again". You are attempting to tar with one brush. Please, stop making sweeping generalizations of perople and events that you have no knowledge about. Stop going with the 'feel' and start using true knowledge. Like I said earlier, this is a big world, and it is not black and white. Someone can be against McCain and for Obama and not be liberal. Let me give you a hint: Independant.
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Sep 16, 2008 4:02:08 PM CDT
CONSERVATIVES SPEAK OUT AGAINST SARAH PALIN (AND JOHN MCCAIN FOR
by bringingsexyback
David Brooks writes in the New York Times that Sarah Palin is unqualified:
In the current Weekly Standard, Steven Hayward argues that the nation's founders wanted uncertified citizens to hold the highest offices in the land. They did not believe in a separate class of professional executives. They wanted rough and rooted people like Palin.
I would have more sympathy for this view if I hadn't just lived through the last eight years. For if the Bush administration was anything, it was the anti-establishment attitude put into executive practice.
And the problem with this attitude is that, especially in his first term, it made Bush inept at governance. It turns out that governance, the creation and execution of policy, is hard. It requires acquired skills. Most of all, it requires prudence.
Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she'd be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness.
Ross Douthat agrees at the Atlantic:
Now that we've seen the entirety of the Palin-Gibson tete-a-tete, I concur with Rich Lowry and Rod Dreher. The most that can be said in her defense is that she kept her cool and avoided any brutal gaffes; other than that, she seemed about an inch deep on every issue outside her comfort zone. Yes, the questions were tougher than the ones that a Tim Kaine or Tim Pawlenty probably would have been handed, but they were all questions that a vice-presidential nominee needs to be able to answer. And there's no way to look at her performance as anything save supporting evidence for the non-hysterical critique of her candidacy - that it's just too much, too soon - and a splash of cold water for those of us with high hopes for her future on the national stage.
And in the Washington Post, Richard Cohen goes off on McCain, seizing on the Palin pick as a sign of how far gone the candidate is:
McCain has turned ugly. His dishonesty would be unacceptable in any politician, but McCain has always set his own bar higher than most. He has contempt for most of his colleagues for that very reason: They lie. He tells the truth. He internalizes the code of the McCains -- his grandfather, his father: both admirals of the shining sea. He serves his country differently, that's all -- but just as honorably. No more, though.
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His opportunistic and irresponsible choice of Sarah Palin as his political heir -- the person in whose hands he would leave the country -- is a form of personal treason, a betrayal of all he once stood for. Palin, no matter what her other attributes, is shockingly unprepared to become president. McCain knows that. He means to win, which is all right; he means to win at all costs, which is not.
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Tell my why you are not a liberal? Are there conservative views that you agree with? Which ones?
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Sep 16, 2008 4:05:14 PM CDT
"Do you think she has the experience to run a major company like
by shan
Some may argue (have been arguing) that Fiorina could not/did not run Hewlett Packard successfully either.
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Off the top of my head, France, Germany, Denmark, Italy and Sweden have bourgeois governments at the moment. And that's just western Europe.
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That made me laugh! For some reason I pictured Barbara Walters asking me that question -sorry. LOL. Dude, I am not about to list my thoughts and beliefs here. I will say that I am a former Marine. A staunch Catholic. A beleiver in this country, but not blinded by phony patriotism, or patriotism for show. Yes, I have conservative values on some things. But I have never been a lock step follower of anything - ok maybe in boot I had no choice, but that was a different world. In short, my life has dictated my beliefs. My exposure to other cultures and societies and beliefs within and without this country, has given me insight that I try to use to make informed decisions. Are they always correct? Hell no. But they are my honest attempts at making the best and most informed decision that I can possibly make.
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Jesus, Samus. You seem like a nice enough guy, but damn -- you need to work on the myopia a bit.
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Well that's cool, and I had read earlier that you were a marine. Well you have a unique perspective, what do you think we should be doing with Iraq? By the way, I'm sorry I just jumped to the conclusion that you were a liberal. I guess I just concluded that too quickly when you attacked me.
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Absolutely!
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I'm currently doing a translation of a paper on politics and election procedures, and am literally at a loss for a word: is there an English or American word for a person who doesn't care about politics and therefore doesn't bother to vote?
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The desire to grow taxes on the rich despite the negative effect it may have on our economy is just one example of the current anger of the poor against the rich. When Barack Obama defended his position on raising the capitol gains tax from 15 to 28% despite the obvious negative effect it would have on investment, he based it on fairness for the people making less money. It is a concept of hurting the rich even if we really really have to hurt ourselves in the process. I do not consider myself rich, and I don't enjoy seeing people living it up any more than the next guy, but I do not have such a strong desire to see them suffer slightly that I am willing to destroy my own properity. But some people feel that way, and I think that motivates them to vote democrat.
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How about apathetic?
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I did not attack you. I was pointing out your errors of judgement. Believe me, this has been a very, very civil political TB. These things normally turn into a very rough and tumble no holds barred exchange. To answer the Iraq question. That was above my paygrade! Hah! Ok, just kidding. The surge has worked in curtailing violence and fostering a belief both inside an out of Iraq that a normal country can emerge. But, as the recent uptick in violence suggests, it is far too early to declare victory. When U.S. troops leave, a power vacuum will exist. And the Iraqi army can not fill it. Moqtada Al sadr (or whatever his name is) still has power. He has been prudently lying low. But if you or anyone thnks he will just let the current gov't exist without a fight, that is plain foolishness. And he is not alone. Others will also seek power once we have left. We can not stay there indefinitley, nor can we just cut and run. But a timetable must be put in place for a withdrawal that will give the curent gov't the best chance to succeed. I do not know how long that will take, but my best guess is that we should be out of Iraq within three years max. After we leave, there will be fighting. Will it erupt into civil war? I am not sure. I do not think it will go that far. I think it will be more regional, and wind up with power centers for the powerful clerics. But it will be bloody for a while until the current gov't decides to negotiate. No one likes to give up power, and it will take some violence to bring that about.
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I was referring to your assertion that all dictators come to power only by using the rage of the poor against the rich, which is simply untrue.
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Sep 16, 2008 4:42:57 PM CDT
I came to power using a bendy straw and a pudding snack
by irrelevntelefant
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I know, the Economy will totally overshadow all this trivia and mania about Palin.
But I seriously doubt Independent or former Hillary voting women, when they find this out, are going to vote for anyone who thinks that was a good idea. -
but I was thinking more of noun, or a nickname. In Norway they're called couchvoters. You don't have anything like that?
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Well, you and I agree mostly, or even entirely perhaps on Iraq. In fact my very first post here included my belief that Muqtada Al Sadr will take control of Iraq shortly after we leave. I know it was his people who carried out the actual execution of Saddam, all the while chanting "Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada". Eery. I know that he sits alongside Maliki, and I feel his low lying plans as you say, cleverly waiting it out until we leave. And so I consider that McCain says we need to stay there a long time- I take it to mean that this is how long it will be before we can actually leave without a huge civil war breaking out. The other alternative is what Obama and the liberals call for. Leave now. Perhaps it is for the best. I know I don't enjoy the wasting away to our country that the war (I mean occupation, I thought I should correct myself) is causing. If bleeding heart liberals are comfortable with that civil war- then I guess I should be too, because logically I am more cold hearted than they are. Does the prospect of a huge civil war give you pause? How huge could the civilian casualties be? I picture something happening along the lines of what happened in Cambodia after we left Vietnam. Is my understanding of history flawed. I expect that you have a clearer understanding of millitary history than me.
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Go to this site instead of their campaign sites. This will give you all of their voting records and everything. Make your decision the smart way.
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Well my statement was a little bit more detailed than that. I said that the ones that came to power from nothing did. I also said that I myself couldn't think of an exception. I admit my knowledge of history isn't flawless, but I do know a fair amount. Examples I would give are Stalin in a way. That is how I see the rise of Fidel Castro, though admittedly he did overthrow the Cuban government, but he inspired his militia with communist ideals. And Hitler, who rose up from nothing breathing anger into the german people. Perhaps I am sketchy on my details here- like I said I am not perfect in my history. But I see patterns.
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And unlike Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, AIG is not Government Sponsored.
The cost will be truly astronomical and staggering for the Taxpayer. -
If Muqtada Al Sadr does assume control of Iraq. Then without a doubt- that war was completely useless. Wouldn't you agree? As a marine, I would think you would be revolted by the concept that so many soldiers died in true vein. The whole enterprise will have accomplished exactly nothing.
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Disenfranchised is a verb that comes to mind for me but that's more of a forced apathy or deturrence. I don't think there is a noun to describe someone in America that doesn't vote or care about politics. A cynic?
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Sep 16, 2008 5:00:11 PM CDT
We should just keep paying the Iraqis not to kill each other.
by smerdyakov
Like we do now. That's what the Surge is, you know, a gigantic payoff to Arab Warlords.
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Well, That is how we stopped Al Sadr to stop fighting. But I think you are speculating too much there.
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"You guys are the ones with the simple solution. Elect Obama and all our problems will go away. I have said no such thing about McCain." ===== No one has said that about Obama either.
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Sadr City is a virtual no-go area for Troops with the death squads and Militias having sworn "blood oaths" to keep fighting against the occupation DESPITE Moqtada urging them to lay down their arms. There is no one faction or militia in control. There is no one figure uniting any faction. The situation has begun to mirror parts of Afghanistan with many Warlords establishing their own private fiefdoms. The Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis are now entrenching their territorial gains and rearming while the Green Zone Government does nothing.
Add to that many of the factions (mostly shiite) have thoroughly infiltrated the fledgling Army and Police and unrelenting pressure and influence from Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran on the three main groups means that a strong unified Iraq assembly actively using Politics to defuse the situation is the one real hope for stemming the bloodshed before it begins in earnest and sadly the one thing that is as elusive as ever.
The idea that Civil War or Partition can be avoided indefinitely or that the Democrats must be fine with this is I'm afraid merely partisan soundbites more suited to FOX News than a serious discussion.
Iraq requires an internal Political solution. One that includes all sides. Period. -
I just got this feeling there is a word for it that I've heard before but can't think of right now. On election day, when the news anchor give the statistics on voter turnout - let's say it's 80% - what does she call the other 20%, the ones who didn't vote? Sorry for messing up your TB with this, but it's kinda urgent.
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I somewhat compared Democrats to fascists, and I was exaggerating. You are right that neither is comperable. However, I have become so sick of liberals calling us fascists that my mind has searched for a way to throw it back in their faces. Indeed there is a similar pattern of modern day liberalism and fascism, but it is slight I admit, and I am stretching. But I find far more in common between democrats and fascists than I do with republicans and fascists. Conservatives just don't seem to seek to bolster up the control government has over our lives the way that liberals do. A liberal might argue against me that indeed republicans do control our lives by laws on abortion and gay marriage. From a certain point of view- that point may have some validity. But overall democrats are far more controlling on normal day to day life than republicans following true conservativism. Rules upon Rules upon Regulations upon more Rules and then Taxes and more Taxes are the natural byproduct I see coming from democrats. It is a stiffling atmosphere. But no, they are not fascists, at least I don't really think so.
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When it comes to my predictions on Iraq and my conclusion that liberals don't care about the lives of the Iraqis, I am not drawing that from FoxNews or any other source except facts that I have learned about. My curiosity on why liberals don't care about the lives of Iraqis is purely my own- though I am sure many other conservatives wonder the same thing. These wonders of mine are not based on sound bites I am trying to say- they are based on my own limited ability to analyze the situation. YOu say that Iraq requires it's own internal political solution. Well you are probably right. That solution will most likely present itself as a terrible civil war immediately after we leave, if we leave soon. As a conservative, I guess all I can say is I guess you guys were right. We should never have gone in there. I thought it was for the best, but it proved to be a more terrible situation than I thought. Perhaps brutal raping and murdering dictators like Saddam are the best solutions for certain parts of the world. Maybe in this situation, conservatives turned out to be the idealists and liberals turned out to be the realists - I'm sort of being fasicious here- I don't want to admit any of this. So screw you all.
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I know you haven't, I was exagerating.
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...the ones who didn't vote?"
Don't think there's a generally used noun for them, rather one which describes their inaction, namely "voter apathy".
What she should call them is "miserable, un-American, cretinous fucktards." -
While it's true the SS had members from other nations, they were far from being a melting pot of ethnicities, as that contradicts everything they, and by extension the Nazi party, stood for. They were all of "acceptable European stock".
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I'll stop bothering you now. Thanks for the help guys!
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Whether Obama gets into Power and tries to implement the timetable the Iraq Governing Authority were in favour of or whether it is McCains extended timetable, will not effect the situation on the ground UNLESS either candidate pushes and pushes HARD for real Political changes that can somehow defuse the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds own power and territory grabs in favour of a unified approach to Governance and the allocation of resources.
A civil war is not inevitable and neither is partition. But both cannot be avoided indefinitely by continuing surges or blustering rhetoric about "victory".
Stasis is not a solution. An indefinite occupation that simply stretches into decades has been ruled out by all parties.
Sooner or later the provinces will have to unite or Iraq as an Independent country will cease to exist and what follows may well be a nightmare.
Brutal murdering Dictators are a reality and a reality Bush is entirely comfortable with or Saudi Arabia would have been in the crosshairs for it's clear uncontested connection to 9/11 and sponsoring Wahabi Terrorism. Instead of the King of Saud gets treated like Bush's prom date.
Zimbabwe of course shows that internal political solutions are possible and North Korea shows that rhetoric about appeasement is hollow posturing if a Diplomatic Solution can be brokered.
Put simply Bush has left McCain and Obama an enormous bowl of shit sitting on the Resolute desk in the Oval Office. He has polished the spoon for both candidates but be in no doubt, one of them will be forced to eat heartily from that bowl soon enough. -
That seems all true. I don't know for sure if you guys don't care about Iraq, or if you just have accepted an ugly situation sooner than we have, and concluded that there is nothing that we can do about it but wash our hands and go home. And feel bad for the result. I had a dream once that I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing, and I beat the tar out of my dog with a bat. All of a sudden I came to my senses and looked down at my mangled dog looking helplessly up at me through bloody eyes. Now with my senses intact I had to finish the beating to put my poor dog who I loved out of his misery, and it was painful to do. It's not exactly the same situation, but it is sad to see happen. I'm not admitting that we shouldn't have gone over there yet- I'm too stubborn for that. I think the Iraqis still have hope. It is possible that this story could end with them better off then under Saddam Hussein.
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Anybody who believes, even half heartedly, that the Deomcrats and Republicans give 2 shits about what is good for the people of this country, much less the world, is either willfully stupid at the worst, or painfully ignorant at best. These hell-bound fuck's (Dems AND Republicans) sent American citizens to a foreign country to kill other people for money. Everyone likes to talk about how to win the war in Iraq, on terror, or whatever, but nobody has had the sense to step back and admit the truth: that America has no fucking business invading other countries without legitimate reasons. The reasons for Iraq were weapons of mass destruction, which anyone who bothered to look critically at the Bush administrations "evidence" would have quickly realized were total horseshit. Motherfuckers lied to the entire country and got away with it, scott-motherfuckin-free. Nobody in this government has lifted a goddamn finger to hold anyone accountable for this clusterfuck of a war on terror (except the few dipshit grunts in Abu Graib who just followed orders) Do you REALLY think they give a shit what John Q. Public wants/needs?! These guys couldn't show more contempt for rule of law if they fucking tried!
Orwell was right about everything but the dates. War on Terror is Perpetual war. There is no definable measure of victory, it can never end, we can never be safe, and that means we can never have those freedoms that we claim to love and want so very badly.
Obama? McCain? Palin? Biden? What fucking difference does it make, they are all going to fuck the public in favor of their corporate masters. Americans are the battered wives of politics. No matter what they do, no matter how badly the parties treat them, Americans go back to the polls and vote for their Man, because this time he really is sorry and promises he will treat us better. Any vote for a Republican or Democrat is a wasted vote.
That's my two cents. -
Hey, someone in this thread named Colonel_Blimp came in looking for a single word to describe people like you. People gave him lots of suggestions.
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Those rich people must be incredibly vindictive. They are made to "suffer slightly" (their "suffering" taking the form of slightly lower numbers in their various portfolios, the poor babies), and in return, they wipe out your prosperity.I guess the alternative interpretation is them saying "Crap! With all that money gone to taxes, I can't afford to create all those lovely good-paying American jobs I was planning on."
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You misinturpreted my point. It wasn't that they would act vindictively- it is that they would have less opportunity to expand whatever various company or bussiness venture or investment that they would've made under a more affordable tax plan. You basically got it right with your second interpretation. And I do agree that some incentive needs to be created for them to create jobs within the US. Now this all isn't a joke. Jobs come from these people- this is almost the only place where jobs come from. If they aren't creating jobs, there are very few other options to turn to. I hope this matters to you enough that you want to make it as easy for them to create jobs as possible. They want to make jobs, and it isn't out of the kindness of their hearts. In most cases, if they want to make more money for themselves, they have no other choice than to make jobs. The moment that it is no longer proffitable to expand- they will not make more jobs. jobs jobs jobs. But don't think jobs are a joke. Jobs make the world go round. If not taxing them at all made the economy excellent and brought in just as good revenues, I'd say stop taxing corporations and those who create jobs altogether. I'm sure that is not the case, and we don't need to go that far, but my point is that is how far I am willing to go to help them create jobs. Of course at a certain point we probably don't need to encourage them to make any more jobs, because at a certain point almost everyone that is willing to work is employed. We have been very close to that rate in the recent past- so I would say we had things going pretty well in that area.
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im curious as to why no one anywhere (except for the show "now" on pbs, npr news and bbc news) has been reporting on or discussing the crackdown on reporters at the republican convention in st. paul - its no secret that protesters were tear gassed and beaten - what most dont know is that any reporter outside the convention walls was treated the same way - they were rounded up and arrested - some were roughed up good too and held against there will (for being reporters/cameramen/media) - apparently the republicans view the media and a free press the same way the chinese hard liners do - especially judging from their treatment in st. paul and their being kept away from palin - the truth is bad and evil according to the republicans
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Right, that is so true. The entire media is in love with the republican party, and they are so obsessed with getting McCain elected that they will coverup any of the republicans evil deeds. Yeah it makes perfect sense that the republicans would beat protesters outside their convention because they are so adored by the media and even democrats that nobody would even care. Thank god we have people like you to help us see the truth. People like Bill Moyers, Keith Olberman & Jon Stewart have been covering up every single one of the republicans disgusting mistakes. They love the republicans so much. Thank you BBC for telling us about the republicans what the right wing media won't. I think this is the first time the term "Right Wing Media" has even been said. Another disgusting coverup.
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You don't live in United States do you JimmyJoe. You're understanding of the United States media is amazingly warped. I am flabergasted at how you think there is such thing as "Right Wing Media"- that is true of ONE channel. Great observational skills.
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i live here and was born here - im not sure what about my post you misunderstood - but my point was that the republicans hate the media/free press and those incidents in st. paul were hardly covered by the networks - there were quite a few reporters and camera men that were assaulted and arrested in st. paul for no other reason than the fact that they were on the street covering the protests - the cops were acting on orders from inside the convention and the local govt in st. paul - many reporters inside the convention hall were warned by freinds via cell phones to stay clear of the area, stay inside or the cops will nab you - the press that were arrested were visibly wearing press id and were not "protesting" or causing a disturbance - the protesters had a right as americans to be there - and the press had a right to cover it - and on palin - the republicans are shielding her from any real questions by the media because she is a prop - she is what they have been calling obama for so long, a vacant celebrity - her and mccain are joined at the hip now - he wont go anywhere without because she will win him votes, regardless of the fact that she is still a mystery - thats fine, but her being guarded from the press and any questions of substance is so transparent - they know what most do - she is a tool, nothing more - she is the "lipstick", mccain and his lobbyist campaign managers are "the pig" - the conservatives that control the govt, the ones that lifted the regulations on investment firms and got rid of all reasonable oversight, are always calling the media (free press) bias and liberal - the truth is, the major networks are pawns of the conservatives - because careers in the news are ended if a conservative exec is crossed or disobeyed - and the information we get from network news (liberal as it might seem to some) is filtered and excised of any real news and information - look into, i did - and the truth is scary
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let me clue YOU in - in america, the fascists are religious, white and right-wing - if by fascist we are talking about a focused group of people that want everyone to live and think the way they do - or else - you can be fascist without having the immediate power or an army to enforce your ideology - just look at the neo cons, the hardcore evangelicals, the hardcore pro-lifers (who advocate bombing clinics), just listen to limbaugh, hannity and oreilly - all rich happy american fascists - they have a big loud "fuck you" for anyone that disagrees with their ideology - and unfortunately they represent the majority of americans right now - some might do so quietly, but most americans between the coasts pine for a "small town"-america that adheres to this conservative talk radio mentality
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Why would the haters of republicans not report things that make the republicans look bad or terrible? The hatred towards republicans in the media is so thick and bloated, it is like a tumor ready to explode. They can barely contain themselves. Bush cannot go to the bathroom without the medias permission, and if he dares, they will report it. I am quite comfortable knowing that if republicans EVER do anything evil or wrong- I will see it plastered EVERYWHERE. The same is not true of the democrats, unfortunately- though I probably would see it on FoxNews if they did something terrible. As far as the media not getting close to Palin, hey that is their own strategy right now. I have no doubt that she will be open to the media soon enough, because they are not going to win without her out in the open. I'm sure they are preparing her for the task of interfacing with the media, and perhaps that is not a good thing- but they are free to perform that strategy. There is nothing evil that I can see about it, maybe just overpolished in my opinion. I would prefer to get to know her now, when she is unpolished and truly herself, but oh well. The fact is that every one of our political figures has gone through some gross polishing process, and since she is new to washington, she is too raw for their tastes perhaps, not for mine though. And no, she is not just lipstick. She has a ton of substance for how I measure substance. She is an actual human being. Compare that to Hillary Clinton who doesn't even have enough of a heart for herself to divorce her adulterous husband because she is more concerned about her political posturing. She is inhuman- that is lipstick. There is no human being there. She has no desire for happiness. She has no soul it seems.
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Oh, don't worry Jimmy Joe Redsky, that day will never, NEVER come. Now you drink your ovaltine and go to bed.
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And JimmieJoe - I agree it was a travesty what was done to the Democracy Now! reporters at the RNC. It was truly brutal.
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Sep 16, 2008 10:02:39 PM CDT
HILLARY FORGAVE HER HUSBAND'S WEAKNESS AND IMPROPRIETIES
by bringingsexyback
That was very Christian of her.
But it doesn't surprise me that Samus views Dems through a different lens than he does Reps.
Palin = Substance? Only if that substance is a crack. -
Why don't you learn what fascism means. Also why don't you learn where your enemies are coming from. You don't seem to understand what motivates them, and you don't seem to understand their perspective. You just clued me in with the most cliche, stereotypical description of what has been described as THE most misused word in modern times. Way to be original. Bombing clinics? How many people advocate that? Half of america? No they don't. How exactly do we say Fuck You to anyone who disagrees with us? By arguing? Intensely? That is how you resolve differences in a society such as ours that values free expression of ideas. We argue with each other. I value that free expression of ideas, and I don't respect anyone that doesn't. When you write "a focused group of people that want everyone to live and think the way they do - or else - you can be fascist without having the immediate power or an army", what do you mean by "or else"? Or else what? We will argue more with you? What does your imagination tell you will happen if you disagree with conservatives? I will tell you, nothing will happen to you. Deep down you know that. You will not be thrown in jail, and no conservative even wants to throw you in jail.
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Sep 16, 2008 10:05:07 PM CDT
WHAT ABOUT TODD PALIN STAYING WITH SARAH AFTER HER AFFAIR
by bringingsexyback
with his business partner? Hmm, Samus? What sayest thou about that?
Would you say he's inhuman, not a human being, has no soul? -
Oh brother. I didn't say that day would never come. I guess I should have been more clear because you heard what you wanted to hear. The news has been all over every single last mistake Bush has done, am I wrong?
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even after knowing what that supposedly great man said about America and 9/11.
Samus apparently hates America. -
according to Samus.
Because even after finding out about Sarah's affair, he stayed with that adulterous fiend. -
Hey good to see you again. Hey I looked into that Bibi Netenyahu thing that he said in April. Big deal. Am I supposed to be offended. The only problem is that he should have known better that when you say something like that it will piss off every moron who is waiting patiently to get pissed off. In the political world, you basically have to walk on eggshells all day, every day. Bibi didn't walk on eggshells in April, and of course that pisses morons off.
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Are you insane? For one thing, I clearly told you at the time that I didn't know what he had said. I just barely found out like half an hour ago. Hey Everyone, according to Samus bluh bluh bluh... Hey Everyone based on what Samus just said he thinks bluh bluh bluh...
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Well, it's nice to see Samus use his nickname, especially since they both agree that the 9/11 attacks on America are a good thing, a beneficial thing.
Apparently over 3,000 dead Americans is inoffensive to Samus. How treasonous. -
your arguement is hinged on the idea that the media/press in general hates republicans/conservatives - this is my point, they do not - they are bound by conservative politicians and conservative corporate execs on what they report as news - its all a sham - paint them as the bad guys that hate us while we control the information they are reporting on - network "news" isnt real news - the evening news is a tv show that depends on sell advertising space (commercials) - those ads pay for the show (news) that we see
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So you are warmed by the beautiful love story which is Bill and Hillary Clinton. How touching. I'm sure she lets him sleep with her and everything. I'm sure he isn't chasing trim anymore. I bet Bill and Hillary kiss. Very romantic that marriage.
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Sep 16, 2008 10:18:15 PM CDT
AM I INSANE? NO, SINCE I VIEW 9/11 AS A HORRIBLE EVENT.
by bringingsexyback
But since you and your hero Bibi Netanyahu think 9/11 was a good and beneficial thing, well, I guess that makes you both insane.
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Ok wait a minute. Are you saying that they are pretending to hate republicans, as a big scheme to make them look like the watchdogs? That is really really hard to believe in.
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Pay off some bills. Buy a new car, and a country.
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because we don't think 9/11 was a good and beneficial thing. And that we ought not be pissed at him for being a traitor.
He's got some nerve. -
Sep 16, 2008 10:25:21 PM CDT
SAMUS WANTS TO "GET TO KNOW" SARAH PALIN'S "RAWNESS"
by bringingsexyback
Well, I can tell you Todd Palin's business partner knows all about that ... rawness.
Did I mention that Samus thinks 9/11 was a good thing? -
McCain wins. He helped create the BlackBerry. http://edition.cnn.com/ 2008/POLITICS/09/16/ mccain.blackberry/ index.html
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Dude, calm down . Please. I think about Israel maybe once a month. I've thought about Benjamin Netenyahu maybe 5 times in my entire life. How can he possibly be my hero. I was responding way back then to an article you wanted me to read. I got the impression you were jewish, so I spoke well of Benjamin Netenyahu, which I sincerly had a positive image of him. Somehow you got offended- I was suprised you were offended. I had never heard of the April statement he made, and made that clear to you, and yet you maintained offense. Your mind is like an open wound. You touch it with anything and you go berserk. You have no clue how little I care about this issue which you think is so important to me. It doesn't suprise me then how easily Netenyahu's statement offended you. I don't think you even are actually offended. You sound like someone who seems to be trying to pretend like he really cares about 911, and you are struggling to act like someone who cares. What Benjamin Netenyahu, the former Prime Minister of Israel, said was that 911 had created more support for Israels cause against terrorism, and that this was a positive side effect. That may simply be a fact that he is acknowledging. But there you are trying to understand what it would be like to care about 911, so your feeble logic tells you that you should be offended by any remark about 911 that isn't weeping and crying about the horribleness of it all.
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You're saying that if rich people aren't taxed as much, they'll be able to expand their businesses and create more jobs. But if we tax them more, they won't do that as much. We've agreed that they won't create jobs that don't make them more money. So, if they're really grousing about not having enough money because of taxes, why would they not still create those jobs, even if it meant digging a little deeper into their vast fortunes, if those jobs are going to result in them making more money?
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Sep 16, 2008 10:31:06 PM CDT
GREAT, NOW SAMUS WILL BELIEVE MCCAIN INVENTED THE BLACKBERRY
by bringingsexyback
Maybe McCain invented it with the help of Bibi Netanyahu (who thinks 9/11 was a good thing).
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It's always fun when someone does that. McCain was doing that all day. But Netanyahu stands by his assertion that 9/11 was a beneficial thing.
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There always comes a point at which it is unprofitable for a company to expand. Otherwise they would just expand forever. The higher their taxes, the less acceptable becomes the risk vs. reward. I'm not a bussiness expert. I'm just trying to understand it the best I can with my laymen mind. I don't think it is that complicated though. That is why I talk about it. I'm just some guy typing on a movie website about politics today. I have some opinions, I'm sharing them, it's fun to see what other people think. You sound like you are thinking about it too. Then there are people like BringingBackSexy over there who are getting way too worked up about things.
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Sep 16, 2008 10:37:23 PM CDT
SAMUS STILL HAS NO COMMENT ON TODD PALIN STAYING WITH SARAH
by bringingsexyback
after she had an affair. Maybe Samus thinks we'll let him off the hypocrisy hook.
Samus is wrong. -
No shit?
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I'm not kidding, you sound like you're high. You are talking way different than earlier. Before you were just a little jumpy, now your heart rate just shot up.
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i cant argue with you - you are on of them - one can you say to someone that thinks corporations shouldnt be taxed at all because they create jobs - good luck with everything - live and let live, thats my motto - everyone should be free to pursue their own happiness, as long as said pursuit doesnt victimize anyone or drag down society as a whole - now go get a crucifix tattooed on your right butt cheek and a dollar sign on your left one - or is it the other way around? - answer this last question... do you believe homosexual marriage, a woman's right to choose not to carry a child to term and strictly enforced gun laws are a drag on society? - are these things (among others) making america weak? - if yes, youre a redneck... i mean republican (or what passes for one nowadays) - but ill take my answer off the air, bye ass hole
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Sep 16, 2008 10:42:42 PM CDT
MY HEART RATE JUMPED UP WHEN SAMUS MENTIONED PALIN'S "RAWNESS"
by bringingsexyback
I am a man, after all. My desire to "get to know" her "rawness" is the same as Samus'.
But I don't share that traitor's view that 9/11 was a great thing. -
Todd Palin:
Human or not? Soul, or no soul? -
I am an asshole because I am conservative? You sound a lot closer to that "agree with us OR ELSE" than I am. Live and call people assholes is your motto.
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i dont mean that in a sexist way - imagine how much she'd rally the base then - my base is rallied at the thought - she might not know shit from shine-ola for being president but she is a looker - too abd she had 5 kids - that kils my fantasy a little - elasticity being what it is
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Sep 16, 2008 10:49:06 PM CDT
NO, YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE BECAUSE YOU DRINK MILK OUT OF THE CARTON
by bringingsexyback
and you think 9/11 was a great thing.
Do they behead traitors here? -
Well guess what BSB, I read that Obama cheated on his wife. What do you think of that, huh big guy? Gettin' mad? I also read that Obama said that Hurrican Katrina was a good thing because it helped the democrat poll numbers. Are you getting all worked up on that? Why don't you punch your fist through your wall?
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LOL Jimmie ...
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The militarization of St. Paul and the brutal treatment meted out to protestors and journalists by riot-masked goons during the Republican convention was covered by the Minnesota papers but mostly ignored elsewhere. This systematic suppression of free speech, the right of assembly, and freedom of the press by these thugs wasn't considered newsworthy, I guess. Most media questions directed at the police after these events were softball and police-friendly, assuming that anyone daring to protest the Party's shindig got what was coming to them.
I want to say something about the persistent myth of the "liberal" media. Most big media outlets are owned by a few big corporations. Most big corporations are controlled by Republicans. Try to imagine the circumstances that would lead these guys to permit, or even encourage, their employees to go out of their way to attack their corporate interests. American journalism has long since been nearly defanged, reduced to a means of disseminating Government talking points, afraid to offend for fear of being excluded or labeled "liberals". For the most part, they regurgitate this "information" with little question or comment.And yes, the press corps's infatuation with McCain and now Palin is well known. If it weren't true, you'd be reading a lot more about McCain's flip-flopping on immigration, offshore drilling, and other issues, and a lot more analysis of the curious views and "qualifications" of Sarah Palin, among other things. For the most part, the press adores their "maverick" with stars in their eyes. -
Although I wouldn't call Michelle inhuman and soulless if he did, and she stayed with him. To forgive is divine.
So what do you think of Todd Palin? -
Hey Sexy, I learned on Keith Olberman last night that Jeremiah Wright gave Bibi Netenyahu a lifetime achievement award, and said he "truly epitomized greatness", Doesn't that make you just want to go outside and kill Bristol Palin's unborn fetus!!!
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Maybe Michelle can lend you her baby killing scissors.
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Be cool, Samus. Don't embarass yourself.
What's your opinion on Todd Palin? Is he inhuman? Does he have a soul? -
Oh wow, Hey sexy, Bill O'Reilly just said on the Factor that Barack Obama has just named Louis Farrakhan as his secretary of education. I wish I could go back to school again for some delicious re-education.
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in a word? - yes - all conservatives are assjoles - im related to a few - i still love them though - but conservative minds (in my experience) are attached to assholes - to different degrees - some are bigger assholes than others - conservative ideology is bullshit - it cant and doesnt work - its killed by the hypocrisy of its proponents - every conservative ive known (a lot mind you) rely on double standards in their favor, see admissions of fault or guilt as a weakness, and have rigid 2 dimensional views on right and wrong/good and evil - so, based on my experience, when i get a wiff of someone being conservative i automatically think "asshole" - you shouldnt let it offend you, its coming from a liberal democrat - according to your ilk we are all full of shit and a bunch of untrustworthy liars cowards and phonies - lets try to get along anyway, asshole
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Sep 16, 2008 11:00:16 PM CDT
ACTUALLY, BILL O'REILLY GENUINELY LIKES BARACK OBAMA
by bringingsexyback
so your slander against him won't stick. Try again Samus.
Right after you tell us your thoughts about Todd Palin. -
No Todd Palin got so pissed off at Sarah that he went to settle the score by getting a genuine Lewinsky from the most authentic source. And then Bill took his turn again. Then Bill and Todd gangbanged her, but only in the mouth.
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Whatever man. You have some real inconsistancies in your language there.
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Your own rawness, as it were. Good show. Thanks for playing.
Good night. -
Registered - Check
Taking my life and dealing with this shitty economy (thanks W) by the horns and making my own way - Check
How-just published my first book-hopefully handing myself the means to get ahead.
Learn more:
http://roparslibrary.blogspot.com/ -
You just called yourself a liberal democrat, but you came in here saying how stupid it is for people to vote either republican or democrat. Make up your mind. Same with the Live and let Live motto. Is it live and let live, or is it "everyone else is an asshole"?
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Sep 16, 2008 11:07:36 PM CDT
weather or ont one cheats on htrer wife is earelivint
by jimmyjoe redsky
nowadays to be presidient you need to 1. be chrisitian 2. believe in creationsism and .3 be christitan - bull shit - why were the nominees meetinf at hte saddle back ranch to address evangekicals? - we need their approval on whio girts electde? bull shit
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Isn't that why people vote Republican? And yet even Palin isn't pushing it as an issue (and she should). Can it be that even the diehards realize they're not going to win this one?
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Isn't that why people vote Republican? And yet even Palin isn't pushing it as an issue (and she should). Can it be that even the diehards realize they're not going to win this one?
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what a moronic ass - bin laden shares his sentiment - whats evil - whats good - so is mkcane gonna defeat all our enemies - i mean the evil ones anyway - tall order, you old asshole - conservative creedo, "shoot first, ask questions later" - the bush doctrine, "america has the right to stage a preemptive war against any and all percieved enemies" - fuck foreign policy - thats for pussies, right? - buncha conservative tough talking self righteous assholes - your all made of butter and wip creme, youd all melt in a real showdown
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This isn't an issue either. Have the fag stoners thrown away their stones? People will me marrying cows any day now.
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Don't worry, you're people will get rid of christianity soon enough, then they can't force you anymore to do the things they are forcing you to do everyday. So tell me, what are christians forcing you to do? Those bastards! They are always forcing people to do and don't do stuff. It's always don't do this, don't do that, don't fuck this, don't smoke that... What a bunch of controlling assholes. You know what you should say is, "Hey Mom and Dad, I will fuck who I want in whatever hole I want, where I want- And I like totally want to know what you two are going to do about it." And they'll be like all "well good, then you can just go to your room and think about what you just said" and then you'll be like "I hate you guys, you assholes won't let me do ANYTHING!!! I hope you DIE!!!" Such assholes.
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i never said that - someone else did - im a democrat because its the only real opposition to republican conservatives - another poster said what you claim i did - reread up top
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You know what you should do, you should go and do some serious heroin, that will show those Neo Con Religious right asswipes. Then they will never try to control you again- I bet they totally give up on you. Then you should like go marry a man or something and then say "Look you stupid Bush-lovers, I just married my best friend, and I'm not even gay, That's what I think of your clinic bombing value system" You go JimmyJoe
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Oh woops, sorry JimmyJoe, I guess that BringingSexyBack guy got me all distracted. Never mind, you are a total strait shooter. You go girl.
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Sep 16, 2008 11:20:44 PM CDT
Oh, and the charge that McCain voted with Bush 80% of the time?
by andre the frog
Only 80 percent? Wow, he really is a maverick. I bet most Republicans have voted with the president over 95 percent of the time. It's his party, who's he supposed to vote with? Has Obama crossed party lines? On right, his Senate seat is covered with cobwebs. He's made a political career out of not voting for anything. The only Senator who doesn't vote with his party these days is Joe Lieberman because he doesn't know what his party is.
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bestiality - ive heard conservatives say, "whats next, marrying a dog or a horse?" - the difference is, two homosexuals are still two humans - there in lies the problem in conservative anti gay thinking - they equate being gay with being less human - also, its not a choice like so many assholes wanna believe - i didnt choose to like chicks and their tits, asses and twats - i was born that way
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ever watch porn? - do you take showers with your undies on
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Alright, it's been fun. I gotta go home and have fun with my wife. Anyway JimmyJoe, don't give up the fight. Those evil christians are in a struggle of wills with you, and you just got to be tough with them. Show them just how evil you can be, and they will be totally shocked and leave you alone. Maybe you should go get a tatoo- and it should say satan and have flaming skulls and everything, and like snakes that look like they are biting your skin- it is going to blow their minds. Then you should like cut the skin off your hands so that you can only see your red muscle meat on your hands you know, and then it looks like you have like really evil hands and you don't care about shit. Then like wear like really evil clothes, and they like say satan all over them and shit, and like have skulls and demons and shit. And like tats of naked ladies going all the way up your arms, and their like naked ladies that are fucking other naked ladies with like devil tails and shit. then you should have like real human skulls hanging off like a killer gold chain on your neck, and like those evil neocons will think twice before messing with you. And then you should like vote for whoever you want to vote for- like satan and shit, and then like maybe other people will vote for satan, and that will show those evil neocons- and then they'll be like, we cant be evil anymore because satan is totally showing us up. And then JimmyJoe can like be Satans first lady and shit, and on network television you can like be getting boned by satan in your asshole in front of like millions of people and like everyone will be going- "damn strait!!!" And then like satans bone will come out of your mouth and you'll be like saying "FUCK NEOCONS, FUCK THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT!!!" And then we can all go hunt the neocon assholes and like totally peal the flesh from their faces and stick nine inch nails in their arms and legs and like crucify them, and make fun of them and stuff. Well anyways, I think you have a good political plan going there JimmyJoe- damn christians. Well all this talk is making me excited to go home to my wife. Ok see you later. good night JimmyJoe.
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because they voted in an asshole that puts corporations before workers and the middle class (me) - and theyll vote in another this term - because they cave in whenever they here someone mention a fetus, science is evil, fags are taking over and guns for everyone - thats how bush won 2 terms - christians roll out buses full of voters on election day - my side, the whiny punching bags they are, sleep late and leave the polls if the lines too long - im a democrat, but they piss me off too - so, to answer your question... christians and conservatives in general make my life less enjoyable by forcing me to pay higher taxes than some ceo with a golden parachute
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It's Samus. Learn your video games man. Or did your damn christian parents not let you play games- those asshole fuckers make me so mad. Dammit to hell!!! Well anyways, yeah go watch porn- that'll show George Dubya Bush! No I'm not a virgin the fascist racist bastards. Yeah, like what's up with people comparing beastiality to homosexuality, it's like totally different. Fucking Nazis!!!
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if my dick would fit - not in public though - whyd you assume im some kid - palins daughter, trigonometry, didnt let her moms philosophy keep her from fucking that retarded redneck jock - and she was a minor
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it represents the selling off of american labor - something your conservative leaders are fond of doing
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Yeah I know, those republicans are all like, hey we want to lower your taxes, but then those commie bastards like totally raised them, and I'm all like "what the fuck?" I'm like "I totally thought like you assholes were going to lower my taxes, so I could buy more crack and shit" And they're like, "Well we don't want you to buy crack because crack is against the bible and shit, and you need to stop marrying other men and marrying cows and shit" And you're like but I was going to use that money to buy a giant satan statue and worship it, and my parents like totally won't let me cause their just these totally stuck up pricks that are all completely obsessed with jesus and shit. And then bush is like all, well I'm going to slap that dick right out of your mouth if you don't start going to church, and then you are going to jail in like Gitmo and shit. And then you like go well fuck you Dubya, I'll go to church and raise hell, and show everyone my weiner in the middle of church and shit. And Bush will be like, you better not show your weiner in church, you better sit down in your chair and listen to what the pastor has to say and shit. And you'll be like no way man, I like totally am going to show my weiner, and then you like do go to church and show it, and like everyone starts worshiping satan and shit and votes totally democrat and it is going to be awesome!
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theyre good tvs
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Let people marry a cow, just as long as I'm there to laugh at them.
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Oh I assume you are a kid because you whine like a little kid who wants to fuck his cat, and his parents are totally pissed because they are jesus freaking assholes. You know? And then like you go say to them... LOL never mind this is kind of getting boring, but you are funny man. And the fact that you are 43 and still bitching about Christians makes it even funnier. You sound like a spoiled little brat, and you are 43 fucking year old man!!! lord help me jesus. That is good stuff.
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yeah my wife is hot, she is a chinese hotty, can't wait to go home, but she is probably very pissed at me right now, because I am staying at work too late writing funny things about you. But you are too much fun man. I like you A LOT. Yeah my wife is quite nice.
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biden is a seasoned vet. her will destroy palin and then the right will claim he was a bully and he behaved in a sexist manner. as for obama and mccain - lets face it..obama never lets you see him sweat. he never appears to be flustered. have you seen john mccain when he is under pressure? how awkward he looks. just itching to snap..its going to be great.
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Sep 16, 2008 11:57:00 PM CDT
i meant wine... spitting or swallowing... at a tasting
by jimmyjoe redsky
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If you think Metroid Prime is the game that Samus is from, then you truly know nothing about video games. You are some old man who started playing games as soon as they got 3D, but you were too cool for real video games back when they were cool and interesting. Good for you asshole.
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Sep 16, 2008 11:57:45 PM CDT
can someone tell me why the right are against gay marriage?
by slappy jones
and if the reason is because of "marraige is about the family etc" does that also men infertile women and sterile men women are not allowed to wed also? I am totally confused as to why anyone cares whether or not a couple of blokes or a couple of gals want to get hitched? Please I am not trying to start a war or antagonize anyone I just don;t see how it affects anyone outside of the two people who want to do it
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Sep 16, 2008 11:58:59 PM CDT
i hope Joey "the shark" Biden bites that her head off
by jimmyjoe redsky
i swear, if he takes it easy cause shes a chick... this guy is the real deal - she will melt in a face off with Biden
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Because gay marriage is totally gay
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my first exposure to games was pong and asteroids in arcades - then i got an atari and played pong, space invaders, biplanes, racing, missile command etc - im an asshole because of my lack of an encyclopedic knowledge of games? - i am an asshole, but thats not why - google your name, i bet metroid prime pops up
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because the right is dependent on the christian vote - christians are against gay marriage - and they vote in vast numbers for the party that champions there causes (like banning gay marriage) - and 2+2=4 - its ironic because there have been so many gay themed scandals in the conservative/republican party - self hate is another conservative trait
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I just wrote some really nasty shit that I felt too guilty to say to you, so I deleted it. My disgusting Christian conscience told me not to send it. Dammit. Yeah you are an asshole for not knowing anything about video games, just like I am an asshole for being conservative- remember that part? Why don't you finally grow up- you're not that old, but you are way too old to have the stupid opinions you have. They say if you aren't a liberal by the time you are 20 you don't have a heart (I pretty much skipped that part because I don't have a heart), and if you aren't a conservative by the time you are 30 you don't have a brain. Well there you go. I'm an asshole and you are an asshole. Go drink more beer and bitch about Christians who are just trying to be good people the best they know how.
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Sep 17, 2008 12:17:32 AM CDT
they think gay marriage is a threat to the institution
by jimmyjoe redsky
... of marriage - which is ironic - McCain, divorced and on wife #2 - Ghouly-ani, divorce and on wife #3 - both against gay marriage in order to save the institution and keep it sacred - hypocrites - straight people have traditionally been fucking up the sanctity of marriage since its invention - so, if they really believe the argument they should ban marriage period
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I totally agree with El Hermano Politico. For the past 50 years and more, the switching between Dem and Rep as presidents hasn't done FUCKING squat for the 46 million without health care, the 4 million dogs and cats euthanized every year in the US due to human ignorance with no education on the matter and without penalty ( not even mentioning the abuse towards animals), the deplorable conditions for animals and treatment at factory farms, almost 100 billion lbs of food wasted per year in the US, 1 in 4 children grow up not being able to read, the drop out rate at an all time high, obesity at an all time high (the American diet is fucked and lets companies market fake unhealthy foods to your children), 600,000 homeless, 35 million (considered poor) in the US, hatred for the US at an all time high, bringing terrorism right to our country, crime has sky rocketed, 750,000 teen pregnancies every year in the US, shall I continue? The system is FUCKED! Only self centered, greedy, power hungry white fuckers run the system and you want to vote for this? No matter who gets elected nothing above will change. It never has and it's getting worse. Just look at the economy. Get that through your warped, brainwashed, baby simple mind. You actually think your existence holds any value other then feeding the machine the fuel to dominate? So I guess it doesn't bother you to have Uncle Sam's 12 inch black cock in your ass? Oh, all right,...vote then if you think it matters any, and makes you feel important and apart of something. Giving you the right to vote is just throwing you a bone to keep you from bitching at them all the time about shit. Because if they didn't you wouldn't be able to go around saying "I FEEL FREE...FREEDOM."
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i was conservative minded growing up - i started changing, becoming more liberal and less afraid of peoples differences, when i was about 18 - i lived in nyc for a while in college - that clinched it - when you have to live shoulder to shoulder with all types of people, the differences become less and less important - you notice the similarities more and the differences less - plus, the girls in nyc are fucking batshit insane hot - and in every shape color and size - discrimination, in thought or practice, was never a consideration - im still liberal minded - if by liberal you mean... i mind my own business, stay out of other peoples and expect them to stay out of mine... unless my business is a threat to society or victimizes others - in my book, gay marriage and abortion dont qualify - theyre above my pay grade - its not my place to vote for any policy that would be a detriment to a free individual - gays and immigrants pose no threat to me - and women should have the right to choose whether to keep a fetus inside them or not (even if they got pregnant by being irresponsible) - im a liberal minded democrat then - im the bad guy
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your points are valid and i admire your passion - but the reason bush one 2 terms and mccain will probably win this one is because angry fragile vegetarian long-hairs like you wont pick a fucking side - "they both suck, im not voting" - idiot, thanks for the noble observation - i dont have an obama poster on my wall either - but between the 2 he is the safer bet for all of us - all the stray dogs and cats might not feel the effect, but i might and you might - i love dogs by the way - cats suck
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Think that money is gonnna come from Leprechauns ? The Bush Presidency will be passing on undreamed of levels of debt onto the Taxpayer. And it's 85 BILLION NOW, it may yet climb higher.
BTW the Sara Palin cheating on Todd story came from the exact same source the Edwards story did. So why the double standard now ? Republicans praised the Enquirer and it's integrity to the skies when it Edwards so why don't they believe it when it's Palin ? (ok that was rhetorical we all KNOW why.) -
yeah - our govt sucks (lately) - and we dont have a spotless track record - but id still rather live here than anywhere else - mind you, ive never been overseas - ive been to Tiajuana (sp?) a few times
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if i had a dollar for every time a conservative christian man cheated on his wife with a male hooker id be rich - being gay isnt a developmental behavior disorder - if it is, it can be cured, right? - your full of shit - no one knows exactly why some humans are gay - its a brain thing, but its not a defect like you claim - our brains are bigger than any other mammals - if whales evolved enough thered be some gay ones im sure - homosexuality occurs in the primate world (apes) - we evolved from primates - its a primate/human thing - and its not a defect or disorder - adultery IS normal behavior, pre-marital sex IS normal - for humans/mammals - youre not normal and neither is forcing a 17 yr old into a loveless marriage so you can become vice president - is jacking off normal? - all mammals do it
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when it comes to being against homosexuality? More stupid fucking shit to fret about. There's nothing wrong with it nor gay marriage. No human has the right to enforce any law against gay marriage and abortion. Yes abortion is terrible but you can't tell/make/enforce someone not to do it. They have that right. Fuck, do you have any clue how many losers have children when they can't even take care of themselves? The child has a terrible up bringing and carries on the same routine. That's child abuse. Just because they are not molesting them or harming them verbally or physically doesn't mean that they are not in pain. One law I think should be put through is since women have to deal with pregnancy and the main caring for the child, all guys should have their sack snipped at birth. If a competent couple wants to have children then they have to go through strict conditions, meeting the proper criteria then getting the vasectomy reversed. I'd rather have people fucking (immorally) then having unwanted children brought into this world. How fucked is it that ANYONE can wield the most powerful force "life" like it's nothing? That we let our teens just have kids and nothing is done about it. But it's so strict to adopt a child. A lot of the time, having children is a very selfish act. Especially asshole fucks that name their kids after themselves.
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remind the pedophile priests in your church - and speaking of pedodophiles, traditionally it wasnt until the later 20th century that men marrying girls became frouned on - historically and world wide, men have been marrying young girls for thousands of yrs and under the sanctity of religion - i think its creepy, i like women with full grown parts and hair down their - but the point is, your side is full of shit and bends rules when it suits them and condones buggery of boys by priests - ive never been married, but ive had sex with more tan one woman (not at once) - animals dont marry, they have families but the male spreads his seed to as many females as possible - watch the animal channel - if youre righ, why do so many conservative christians fuck arounf? satan? - theyre not the real deal? - fuck this, im gonna go watch krull
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and he is the nicest neighbor ive ever had
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break all the old laws in one shot - i tried, but it was like pushing a square peg in a round hole - your part of the problem - your why my taxes are higher and getting higher - vote with your head, not your bible - oh wait, what head - speaking of head - ever see a porno? - is jacking off evil and unnatural - if rubbin it is wrong, i dont wanna be right
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and are dinosaurs just some made up bull shit? - are we the off spring of 2 dumb horny teenagers tricked by a talking snake?
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carol, a former swimsuit model, survived a severely disfiguring car wreck while john was away - he stuck it out until 1979 - then he got picked up in a bar by cindy the rodeo queen and brewery heiress - he married her 1 month afer divorcing carol in 1980 - i guess if youre trading, trade up
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Correction time: 1)Node- Germany did not thrive under socialism. I don't know where you got that but by any reasonable evaluation the Weimar Republic was a fiasco and the mistakes made (especially the economic ones) were responsible in part for the rise of Nazism. 2)Biohazard. Eat a dick. I am married to an American, I have travelled extensively around America to states including some in the south. In fact, your travel history does not impress me in the slightest- but at least you have been outside of America more times than your potential president. 3)Nine to One in favour of Obama. This is a bit of an exaggeration, but essentially true. However, your reasoning as to why is completely off the mark, as you are arguing all the western nations are left-leaning. The support for Obama is regardless of political affiliation (I'm not left leaning), and is born from a combination of horror at the thought of McCain and 4 more years of republican fuck ups, and astonishment/ hilarity that someone as obviously inappropriate as Palin could be nominated as Vice President. Seriously, and don't give me this horseshit about Executive Experience. It's obviously bollocks- and the fact that you think someone who's only experience was fucking up a town of 6,000 and being governer of a state of less than 700,000. And you want to put this monster of a person in striking distance of the White House? Are you lot fucking nuts?
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Because of the possibility that McCainiacs will steal the election, silence is the greatest protest.
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FASCISM= RIGHT WING TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT. If you really want to play the liberals=fascists game Samas then I am more than willing.This is a horribly disingenous move by the right, and not only is it utter bullshit, but also morally repugnant and dangerous. Stop it. If you want to label the left something then a good old fashioned "commie" will do- This is not hard.
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wish we could do it all the time.
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Sep 17, 2008 6:20:12 AM CDT
LENDING AIG $85 BILLION AT 11.8% INTEREST FOR TWO YEARS
by bringingsexyback
while they're still losing money. That's not a solution - that's delaying the disaster for the next Presidency.
McCain/Palin 08!!!!!!!! -
Sep 17, 2008 6:32:46 AM CDT
WHO ARE WE KIDDING - THEY'RE GOING TO FORFEIT THE LOAN
by bringingsexyback
after the panic wears off and the taxpayers - like G100 said - will foot the bill.
Obama/Biden 08!!!! -
I fucking resent having to pay for the greed and incompetence of bankers. Fuck them all.
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Do you not sleep? Anyway, here's your "When good things happen to bad people" story of the day. Yet again another out of touch, warmongering chickenhawk Republican:The Pioneer Press reports on the self-described "poor judgement" of Gabriel Nathan Schwartz, 29, of Denver. Schwartz was in Minneapolis last month for the Republican National Convention when an innocent one-night-stand ended rather badly for the young delegate.He met her in the bar of the swank hotel and invited her to his room. Once there, the woman fixed the drinks and told him to get undressed.And that, the delegate to the Republican National Convention told police, was the last thing he remembered.When he awoke, the woman was gone, as was more than $120,000 in money, jewelry and other belongings.The Pioneer Press also posts footage of Schwartz taken from the convention in which he lays out his hawkish plans for the Middle East. He says that the US should "bomb the hell out of" Iran. When asked how the US should pay for such a strike, he suggests, "We should plant a flag, take the oil, take the money. We deserve reimbursement."
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That - in a nutshell says everything much better than I can. Listen to the man and vote Democrat.
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I attempt to engage in a reasoned debate regarding a certain political issue, but get banned at for my troubles. I was not flaming anyone, using vulgar langague, or trolling. Others certainly did those things, and they were not banned. Fine, it's not my website, but if political dissent is not tolerated, then please let it be known when a thread such as this is started. When people on the Left accuse conservatives of trying to bring about Christian theocracies in a Taliban-type fashion, I always chuckle, as it is the Left that engages in censorship and in trying to quiet people who disagree with their political view. Look at the discussion about bringing back the Fairness Doctrine, just to silence Rush, Hannity, and other conservative talk show hosts that are obviously having a political effect.
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Would you like a Kleenex?
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The fairness Doctrine was bollocks. The left should be embarrassed for even mentioning it. As much as I want to see Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, Boortz, Savage and Beck tossed out of an airplane with a anvil strapped to their back, they should be allowed to spew their rhetoric much the same way as I'm doing right now. But...To insinuate that only the Left engages in censorship is disingenuous. Look at how Bush cronies like Rove and Myers ignored court subpoenas and how Bush "censored" them by claiming executive privilege. And of course, McCain and Palin are doing the exact same thing right now by muffling the subpoenas being served in the Troopergate affair. Yeah, the Right doesn't know anything about trying to contain the truth from reaching the public.
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That's withholding information based upon a legal theory that the information does not have to be disclosed. Something all presidents have done. Censorship is when someone says, "I don't like what you're saying, so I'm going to shut you up." Huge difference.If you can point to a time when a Republican has engaged in censorship, I'm all ears, and I'll happily join you in condemning them. The only example remotely close I can think of is Ari Fleischer's comments for the media to watch what they're saying, which got a well-deserved backlash.
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Wow, no way to discuss things with someone who uses blinders so tight they cut off the blood flow to the brain. Regardless of who uses executive privilege, it IS censorship. It is the president declaring "I don't want damning information revealed, therefore I am going to order you to keep your mouth shut." THAT IS CENSORSHIP. If you can't see that, then your argument is an epic failure. Whatever Republican OR Democratic presidents have used that "privilege" are total scumbags.Seriously, what is it with you Republicans who think you're above it all. "Republicans don't engage in censorship?" Man that's ballsy. Both sides do. That's why both sides suck.And by the way, what Ed O'Callaghan is doing in Alaska right now is censorship in any thinking person's book, although I'm sure you'll call it "containment."
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censorship: Mary Whitehouse. It's utter horseshit to pretend that the right is the side for free speech. And if you try to pretend that that bitch was liberal for a second then I hope God rewards your lie with 10'000 volts through the keyboard.
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I knew there was a reason why I liked you.
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"Why would the haters of republicans not report things that make the republicans look bad or terrible?"
THAT'S THE BLOODY POINT. They AREN'T "haters of republicans", that's just the spin you've been fed for over a decade to condition you to discount anything negative that makes the air.
If the media were truly supporters of the democrats, they'd be focusing on negative reporting on the Bush administration and the right wing instead of glossing over it or devoting their time to diversions. For instance, you'd be hearing people pressing the McCain campaign on his platform instead of spending a day or two over the 'controversy' on Obama using the "lipstick on a pig" metaphor.
Let's go WAAAAY back for an obvious and (hopefully (yeah, yeah, I know...) irrefutable example:
Remember when Bush first entered the White House? Remember how the press secretary and Republican spokesmen RAILED against the VILE VANDALISM that the outgoing Clinton staff had done to the White House? Broken furnature? Feces on the wall? HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars of damange to the PEOPLE'S HOUSE? AN ***OUTRAGE***!!! Remember that?
Remember when the GAO issued a report, months later, that said NONE OF THAT EVER HAPPENED?
Remember how the so-called "liberal" press reacted? Not a peep. They reported on the GAO report and let it slip into oblivion. Where was the heated questioning on WHY such lies were made and HOW THEY COULD POSSIBLY BELIEVE THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH THEM?
I'll tell you why. It's because the "liberal media" is a MYTH. The major news outlets do what's best for their business, which is to promote false controversy and false moral equivalence to attract audience attention without actually shaking the boat for their owners and advertisers. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kP2VYjbfZA
Seriously watch this. Colbert is god. -
Amen, brother.
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Sep 17, 2008 10:03:33 AM CDT
Until there is unlimited radio spectrum and unlimited radio lice
by kazamasmokers
... there will be a necessity for the Fairness Doctrine. As long as radio spectrum is limited, spece needs to be available for all viewpoints. Somehow this is construed as an attempt to "silence" someone. What crybabies.
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"Radio licenses", obviously.
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You can't dictate what type of programming a radio station plays. If it so happens that the majority of conservatives in this country decide to get the bulk of their news through conservative talk radio, that's their choice. And if the programmers decide this is where the money's at, then that's their choice. It's the beauty and curse of the free market system.It's not like there aren't reliable sources to get news for both sides. You just need to know where to look. Unfortunately the conservative crowd is generally a bunch of can't-think-for-themselves boneheads who need to have elitist spankmonkeys like Hannity or O'Reilly shove half-truths and fear down their throats.The reason why Air America is an epic failure is because liberals have already figured things out and don't need to hear the rantings of Al Franken to form an opinion.Look, we don't have a fair and balanced society. Most of us only have one electric and gas company to turn to and they can charge us outrageous fees and short of writing a letter of protest there's nothing we can do if we want to keep our arugula fresh.If you don't like the one-sided views you hear on talk radio, turn it off and pick up a book.
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He's just the kind of clueless dipshit a con artist would pick. I'm so happy he lost his money and jewelry. Who carries $120K around like that?
I hope he went home and committed suicide. -
In a perfect world all clueless d-bags would cliff dive like lemmings.
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Another disturbing Obama connection: Harry Knowles!heeheehoohoo
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Can I have a Gold Catchers Mask now?
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Of getting new voters to vote. I can't tell you how many times I've been handed Voter Registration forms at work the past 2 weeks.
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one of the following: rich (I'll say 250,000 or more a year), someone who thinks they will be rich soon,a fundamentalist Christian, a racist, pro-life (no exceptions at all), or a complete idiot. McCain choose the VP that he wanted to screw the most; I suppose he is looking for one more affair....
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Why did you jump to the conclusion that Hawaiian and BSB wanted to rid the world of people who voted for Bush? This is why lots of people have problems with the current Republican guard: they blow things out of proportion and use inflammatory language.May I ask you a question? Did you vote for Bush in '04? If so, why? (I'm not sure if you ever mentioned this, so forgive me if you already have)
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I only wished suicide on one guy dumb enough to think he was gonna get laid. One look in the mirror should've told him he was getting scammed.
That should be a lesson to you, too. -
Coughlins, let me spell it out for you. There are a myriad of people on this planet that I wish would kill themselves. I'm not condoning mass murder, but one's own self-realization that they are twisted, evil and a scourge upon the planet.The gentleman I quoted from the article/video is a mindless drone who probably would, if given the choice, wipe out entire countries in the Middle East, starting with Iran.I couldn't personally pull the trigger to send him to the ninth circle of Hell but it is without question that the world would be a more civilized place without warmongers like him in it.I have tolerance for the average Republican, I just don't respect them. If somebody voted for Bush twice, chances are they are reaping the benefits now by either watching their home equity plummet, obliterating their vacation fund to fill up their gas tank, packing up a box because they work for a company like HP or all of the above. So I don't need to wish them ill as they are their own worst enemy.Sure there are liberals who go to extremes and wish every Republican would put a sawed-off in gaping maw, but I'm satisfied enough knowing that most of them have shot themselves in the foot.
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HOD is a classy sorta guy. I'm not. I will say there are plenty of Republicans out there that should most certainly implode. As I said before in regards to Palin-- if you you really believe a victim of rape should be forced to have that child, then yes....you should die. You have no business living on this earth, as you have made it quite clear you have no soul. Got some time off from your many successful restaurant establishments to come and play on AICN eh? Thats nice.
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Sep 17, 2008 1:46:59 PM CDT
coughlin, its nice to see you and Samus Aran switch off....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...on AICN. One of you hammers away at the keyboard while the other fucks in you in the ass from behind, eh? It must be sweet being a Republican. A lot of man on man comradery. After you wipe each other's dicks off you can high five over the strength of our economy's fundamentals. Yeeeehah!!
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There are few things more amusing than Republicans suddenly getting their panties in a bunch about namecalling , attacks or "respect" for the other side.
Nothing hypocritical about that in the slightest. -
"In a perfect world all clueless d-bags would cliff dive like lemmings." You went on a bitchy rant about HOD wishing Republicans dead. He said CLUELESS D-BAGS.....if you take this term as meaning REPUBLICANS, than that is your issue. I will say-- I will agree with you on that. Republicans can be defined as clueless douche bags from here on in and I would be fine with it. I love your little 12 year old cackle of celebration, "HA HA HA HA!!!!!! It's almost TOO funny." If your bullshit restaurant owner bit is true, you must be a serious cunt of a boss. I can't imagine working for someone of your brain capacity.
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You and Samus are both whiny uniformed cunts, so I like to imagine you're in the same room when you post. Fuck off.
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...when Clinton was in office and the economy was chugging along and people had money in their pocket and gas was 89 cents a gallon, there were Republicans that despised him and Hillary and more than a few who wanted the First Couple dead.So maybe, just maybe, you might want to forgive a liberal for having murderous thoughts when in 4 short years they've watched the value of their house drop to where it's worth less than they owe, gas has nearly doubled, unemployment has risen to 6.1% (and let's not forget that doesn't include unemployed people who don't qualify anymore), taxpayers and their children's children are being burdened with bailing out corporations due to fat cat chicanery and the lower class can't even afford to eat a healthy meal anymore because the good stuff costs so much.I said it yesterday Coughlin and I'll say it again. You're insulated. Until you spend time with a family who is struggling to make ends meet and has to give their kids soda because it is half the cost of milk, you'll never know the plight of the angry American.And your lame excuse that the small business you run keeps you busy 6 days a week is weak. Just because YOU don't have time to spend with those at the bottom doesn't mean they don't exist. And until you've spent some time in their shoes, you'll never know how bad Republican policies have been to them these past 8 years.And because I have no faith in him either, when I cast my vote for Obama on Nov. 4th, I'm going to be gritting my teeth so hard that Vegas odds on my having an aneurysm currently sit at 2 to 1.
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Sep 17, 2008 1:57:31 PM CDT
that uninformed, not uniformed cunts....my mistake
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Sep 17, 2008 2:00:56 PM CDT
Coughlin-- I don't believe I've ever wished death on you....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...only on Palin and all others who agree with her stance on rape/abortion.
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Sep 17, 2008 2:03:15 PM CDT
p0llk4t the Chicago political will be running the country?
by the founder
That was funny. You gave me a good laugh, but truth is you have some credibilty in your comment.
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If the majority of people who voted for Bush believed he was right to invade Iraq, was right to intervene in the Schiavo case, is right to block gay marriage, was right to wipe his arse with the Constitution and is right to think that a woman shouldn't have the right to choose, then yes, it is my right to not have any respect for them. To a decent human being who is a honest to god patriot, anything on that list should offend you. But for the 60 million people who voted for Bush in 2004, they looked at that laundry list of despicable actions/beliefs and declared it was clean.
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It's a shame that people domn't want to admit it. Sure obama has made some mistakes where he should be punched in the mouth for, but McCain? This man is only benefiting cause he's white and is playimng up his POW credentials. I'm sure people will bitch at what i said but the truth is the republicans have nothing to run on. Bush and his crew has ran the country i8nto the ground. They screwed up the economy(dems have some fault in it to)and worse of all has nose dived the US Military into an unwinnable war period. YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE THOSE PEOPLE MINDSET AND CULTURIAL BELIEFS BY FORCE EVER! They have to want change theselves and rise up and take their freedoms. Race is a big issue and i don't belive the US that far away from racial problems and discord. The media is downplaying the race and you have the librel elite who are so taken by the idea of a black man getting elected that they and the Dems in washinton(not all) are just ignoring that millions of americans aren't going to vote for obama because of his half black parentage and that is enough to swing the election. Sorry obama supporters but it's true. I'm also an Obama supporter and as a black man i'm proud but i'm also a realist. Hillary would have abetter chance of winning. I still say it would have been better for an Clinton/Obama ticket. That woud be a shoe in.
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Sep 17, 2008 2:14:01 PM CDT
Coughlins-- there is reason to have hatred for the other side
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Look at the current state of our fucking country man. How can you not comprehend that this is because of your side? Even if you are a conservative person, how could someone not want to give someone else a chance and see what they do with it? I just cannot fathom somebody thinking more of the same shit is a good idea. What the fuck is going through your head? Thats the root of the animosity. People finally feel enough is enough and we have all become a hell of a lot more aggressive because of it. McCain is a bumbling old fool. Palin is even worse. Even if I was a conservative person socially, I would like to think I would have the brain to understand they are a bad idea.
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"Hillary would have abetter chance of winning. I still say it would have been better for an Clinton/Obama ticket. That woud be a shoe in."
Hillary would be DOA as the Democratic candidate. There are too many people who HATE HER GUTS based on what they've been told, over and over for the course of nearly 10 years. She'd never have won; the right-wing pundit machine would be after her 24/7 and the media would happily parrot their points as they have for the past (at least) 8 years. -
...if everyone in it suddenly coughed up a pint of blood. So I live and work with mostly Republicans. I stopped eating in the lunchroom long ago as the level of conversation in there is usually accompanied by dueling banjos. So I may not respect the people I interact with on a daily basis but I am respectful to them. that's just common decency.I look at someone who opposes gay marriage like you look at someone who believes in slavery. Both are violations of a basic human right, only conservatives have somehow managed to convince half the nation that fire and brimstone will rain down if we allow gay couples to be as miserable as us straight married blokes are.
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He never once said YOU opposed gay marriage, he is answering in response to your post about our hatred toward Republicans in general. Jesus fucking Christ.....are you dumb.
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I kid! Jesus take it easy. Why don't you call me an anti-semite; it'll make you feel better.
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Sep 17, 2008 2:38:58 PM CDT
and again Coughlins....you're doing what Repubs do best...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...you are twisting my words to your benefit. I never once said Bush...I don't believe Bush himself is responsible for much. I believe everyone he has surrounded himself with is....I am from the school that believes he is but an unfortunate puppet. You will never convince me of a thing. Just as I will never convince you. So why continue to discuss this? We'll just keep going back and forth, I'll throw insults in response to you twisting the words of others. You'll continue to play the victim, fingering all liberals as being big bullies.
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So I'm assuming since you didn't answer my question, you voted for Bush in both 2000 and 2004? So you favored Bush's policies, yes?Now you are for McCain, whom you called "Bush's biggest Republican critic for the last 8 years". So are you saying you made a huge mistake voting for Bush the past two times and now realizing your error, have decided to vote for McCain? Or do you blindly always vote for the Republican candidate?
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Fucking tool. Gargle my piss and swallow (not die) you worthless cretin.
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...the second questions are asked of his personal views he conveniently has "Restaurant Manager Business" to tend to. Works every time. Fucking pussy.
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How did you feel back in 2000 when McCain and Bush went head-to-head? Ari Fleishner accused McCain of "vilifying his opponents" and "tearing people down".
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That's the sound of Coughlin shooting his argument in the foot. Dude, you just proved how insulated you've become."I USED to be poor. However, I'm not now. And it's not because anybody handed me anything. I have worked my ass off for almost 20 years to get where I am. Plus, I didn't make alot of bad decisions alot of poor people make."Let's go through this one by one shall we?1. Not everyone can be successful. There's just not enough room at the top. Besides, without people collecting garbage, working a cash register at Wal-Mart, picking vegetables in a field or waiting tables, the economy would collapse. And that right wing rhetoric that these are temp jobs is insulting. For some people it's all they are qualified to do and higher education isn't within everyone's reach.2. Home care aids earn less than $19,000 annually. Since all of us will eventually be old and feeble, this job is a necessity. Aids generally work very long days, don't ask for any handouts and haven't made bad decisions, on the contrary, it's a "humanity" decision. Yet these are the types of people you crap on.People who your business depends on (day laborers), people who you may one day need (firemen) or will most likely need (nurse) are paid abysmal wages and they represent the majority of low wage earners in this country.Lastly, and here's the real kicker, you lash out against liberals who say hateful things on DailyKos or HuffPo, yet with the broadest of strokes you roped in the bottom class as people who want nothing but handouts, who are lazy and made bad decisions. Many of these people are making "passionate" decisions. Teaching your kids, cutting you out of your wrecked car and then stitching you up or making sure that your final days on this planet are dignified are jobs of passion, And they don't pay a damn.So regardless of your Tom Sawyer beginnings, you have fallen into the typical rags to riches trap and not only forgotten where you came from but that, even if hard work was involved, you probably had to step on more than a few people to get there.
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Bush has been accused himself of dividing the country, pitting the south and midwest against the coasts. I'll have to see if I can find some quotes of him essentially dividing the country in two.
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Sep 17, 2008 2:55:16 PM CDT
ACTUALLY, BUSH'S BIGGEST REPUBLICAN CRITIC IS RON PAUL
by bringingsexyback
along with notable Conservatives like Chuck Hagel and Lincoln Chaffee.
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when Katrina was laying waste to Louisiana and Mississippi. How nice.
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and DIE!!!!!!!!
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And leave out the opinions. Thank you!
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Sep 17, 2008 3:09:22 PM CDT
ALL THIS TALK ABOUT FOOD AND DEATH HAS MADE ME HUNGRY
by bringingsexyback
I think it's time for a Gray's Papaya Recession Special.
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.....you don't have the balls to discuss actual issues or views. You just like to stir shit up and run. Classic conservative cunt behavior.
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"You can't dictate what type of programming a radio station plays."======
Of course you can. It's called Terms of License".
"It's the beauty and curse of the free market system."
No. Thailand has a free market radio system, where whoever has the strongest transmitters gets to blow everyone else off the air. The U-S does not.
"It's not like there aren't reliable sources to get news for both sides."
You cannot compare radio to other mediums and say they are equal.
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Sep 17, 2008 4:27:32 PM CDT
Watch as America puts another Republican in the White House.
by jdanielp
How smart do you have to be to vote for the other ticket?
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It's the 21st Century. Are you REALLY going to vote for a President who doesn't know how to use a computer and a Vice President who believes cavemen fought with dinosaurs?
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...and already Palin is above the law, claiming she's unlikely to "cooperate" with a special prosecutor appointed by the Alaskan legislator to investigate possible abuses of her power as Governor, a probe begun before her selection by McCain.I don't think America is quite what it used to be.
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His computer skills don't matter to me. Her beliefs don't matter to me (Obama believes a young Jew was the son of God and died for his sins 2,000 years ago, so I'd drop the religion angle if I were you.) What matters to me are their policies. Leftists policies are not my cup of tea and Barack simply is more of the same lefty garbage. McCain reached across the aisle way more than Obama did. Obama is no uniter.
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is Obama's elitist and condescending attitude."The one thing that I want to insist on is that, as I travel around the country, the American people are a decent people. Now they get confused sometimes. You know, they listen to the wrong talk radio shows or watch the wrong TV networks, um, but they’re, they’re basically decent, they’re basically sound."Thanks Barry...
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Do you need a cracker? Man, nobody can parrot that right wing rhetoric like a conservative lackey. All Fox News has to do is put up a picture of Obama and repeat the word "elitist" over and over and before too long the neocons latch onto it like a 50 dollar bill.Yeah, Obama's an elitist, I'll give you that. But it's no moreso than a guy who thinks $5 million annually is upper class, can't even hinder a guess at how many properties he owns and surrounds himself with economic advisers who say we're in a "mental recession", call Americans "whiners" and run a company into the ground and are rewarded with $42 million golden parachutes. Yeah, nothing elitist about that group.
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Sep 17, 2008 7:25:05 PM CDT
THE CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE KNOWN AS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
by bringingsexyback
marches forth under the McCain/Palin banner.
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Because foregoing a corporate law career to help poor people is such an elitist thing to do.
Such cynics on the Right. Such a hateful, loathesome bunch. -
http://tinyurl.com/46so8b Big surprise huh? duuh...
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Think again.
Hockey Mom was the right choice to boost an unquestioning far right and religious base but the flipside of McCains Gamble is now obvious to all to and starting to backfire spectacularly.
Because when something truly important, urgent and complex appears to dominate the election (as the Economy always would) McCains leftfield choice of a "folksy" VEEP was always going to get crushed under the weight of the almost intractable problems ordinary Taxpayers will DEMAND get solved.
IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID. -
McCain was against the AIG bailout yesterday befeore he changed his mind but was for it today.
Last year he led the call for yet more DEREGULATION in Wall Street today he is calling them crooks and crumb bums and scraaming for crackdown regulation immediately.
Put simply McCain is not good on the Economy. He is not comfortable campaigning on the Economy. But he is going to have to get used to it because that is the game and that is the number 1 issue. From now till November.
He will also have to frantically train Palin VERY fast lest she Quayles Big Time on the Economy. -
Take this for what you will.....
http://fairlyconservative.com/the-race-for-president/a-chat-with-anne-kilkenny-from-alaska/ -
Right, Senator Obama grows up in a single parent family which was not rich by any stretch of the imagination. Through the kind of hard work that the Republicans are always bleating about that people should be doing (and not hanging about on welfare), he is in the serious running for the US Presidency. Of course he's obviously worked hard and become well off (another thing Republicans yammer about a lot) and that somehow makes him elitist.
Meanwhile, Senator "Son of an admiral, grandson of an admiral seven houses" McCain is somehow less of an elitist and down with the common folk. The mind literally reels ... -
Population grew from 4,635 to 5,817 from 1996 - 2002 while Palin was mayor. That's 25.5% increase during that time, while property and sales taxes increased by 47.3% during the same period.The first year the town of Wasilla issued general obligation debt was in '98. Bonded debt per capita tripled between '98 to '02. Three of her seven years in office, expenditures exceeded revenues (capital outlays).
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Is the same person that's proposing 800mil to 1bil in new spending on entitlement programs during war time.All you people decrying tax cuts during war time -- why are you so fond of such a widespread increase of entitlements during war time?
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Palin has been commander of Alaska's National Guard for almost two years, which makes her "totally qualified to address every challenge as the next vice president of the United States" McCain said.
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hacked into, if the allegations are true.
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Please. I'd love to run the same numbers on Vermont but lack the energy and inclination to do so. Argue that I must know I'm wrong if it makes you feel better.Lookit -- you folks were perfectly fine with a 1-term "outsider" Gov of A SMALLER STATE and NO energy reserves potentially holding the highest office 4-years ago. In fact, you guys liked him so much you elevated him to chair of the party.Lemme put it this way -- If she was such an inexperienced failure, then why has her career been such a meteoric rise? There should have been a major grassroots organization against her, given your findings.And are there no analogies to the other side to be found here? In what measurable ways did Chicago improve during Obama's tenure as state official? I do know that he got the asbestos out of a tenement, but lacking information beyond that.
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Post RNC convention, Obama dropped to a 6-point deficit below McCain. Today, he's leading by 2 points. And CNN reports he's got a slight lead among white women now. Various reports show that Sarah Palin's lustre has worn off. The debates should cement her demise.
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LOL she said that? Can't wait for the YouTube videos ahahahaahhahaahaa!!!
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Shouldn't the fucking President address and reassure the nation in this difficult time? Is he out chasing possums again? Does anyone still deny he's the worst President ever?
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Sep 17, 2008 9:31:11 PM CDT
McCain"economics is not something I've understood as well as I s
by g100
In fact, on numerous occasions over the course of the campaign, McCain has volunteered that he is unsatisfied with his lack of knowledge about aspects of economics.
"I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated," McCain told the Wall Street Journal in late November.
In December he said, "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," as the Globe reported on its "Political Intelligence" blog at the time.
On at least one occasion, McCain has raised the matter himself. On Nov. 10, while traveling through New Hampshire on his Straight Talk Express bus, McCain was asked what he would seek in a vice presidential candidate if nominated.
After mentioning the ability of a potential running mate to replace the president, McCain said, "You also look for people who maybe have talents you don't, or experience or knowledge you don't, as well."
"What are those qualities that you don't - that you wouldn't mind complementing?" asked David Brooks, a columnist for The New York Times.
McCain paused. "Uh, maybe I shouldn't say this, but, somebody who's really well grounded in economics," he said. -
"Do your research!" - Kent Brockman
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How the fuck do the Reps expect to continue paying for the war that continues to cost $10 Billion per month? What a goddamned mess.
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Reminds me of those Yankton cocksuckers and when Bullock...insane fuckin' person though he may be...was making a fair fight for Sheriff against that hooplehead Harry Manning. And by God if Hearst wasn't offerin' bribes to every bluecoated cocksucker.
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Heng Dai ! Sweagen.
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What the hell does "no energy reserves" have to do with Howard Dean's fitness to be president or anything else? Is Vermont somehow a lesser place because all it has is hardwood forests? Are you hoping to get a break at the gas pump if you elect someone from a state that has oil?
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Sep 18, 2008 12:49:26 AM CDT
only the right would have the balls to paint the black guy
by slappy jones
as the elitist. Amazing.
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weird that.
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Sep 18, 2008 1:30:49 AM CDT
BringingSexy, polls are completely for shit right now...
by big dumb ape
Sexy, weren't you the one saying to me "cool it" over politics and getting too heated under the collar in a Talkback just a short while ago? For crying out loud, man, you're like every other post here. We get it -- you're voting Obama. Me, I'm voting McCain. If you live in California, congrats, we just cancelled each other out. But for all the truly bitter arguing that's going on in here, do some of you guys actually think you're going to sway any votes in here? Like you're suddenly going to talk someone INTO voting for Obama? Seriously, some of you people should go talk about TRANSFORMERS or whatever else is the topic of the day already. It'll do your blood pressure wonders...But since we are talking politics, I'll simply say this. As for the polls there's no question that this week's economic news will shift a few numbers around, but the election is still a month & a half away and frankly the average voter has the memory span of 2 days. Current events can always affect things at the last minute. An economic calamity might help Obama...then again just yesterday there was an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Yemen. Thankfully no one was hurt, but just imagine that a series of major bombs goes off in London (for example) and suddenly the specter of terrorism is thrust on the front burner again. Given that McCain holds like a 20 point advantage over Obama as "who do you think will be a better Commmander in Chief" I guess THAT would tip the polls too. So who knows what's going to happen? Hell, something could happen literally 48 hours before the election and THAT even could turn the election.Personally, I think the debates more than anything will finalize this election, and even then...given the fact that even with all this bad economic news breaking Obama STILL can't pull away substantially from McCain...I'm sure this will still be a total nailbiter on election night.As for your post noting that CNN was reporting that Palin was fading fast, give me a break. In truth, that report was them picking up on a NEW YORK TIMES piece that's out right now and I think we all know just how fucking biased the NYT is, and I think we all know how reliable their shit reporting is. For Heaven's sake, the NYT saying that Palin is fading? In the immortal words of Claude Raines in CASABLANCA: Why I'm shocked! Gee, just imagine -- this news flash coming from a paper that just last Sunday had no less than 5 of it's editorial writers trying to tear Palin a new one. So the idea that they would now issue a story saying she's fading is only par for the course for a once-great and now-rag newspaper that is desperately trying to do anything it can to try and ensure an Obama win.Of course, if you're so interested in polls, then fine -- you go with the NYT and I'll go with ABC/WASHINGTON POST which noted: "One poll in particular may be causing concern for the Obama campaign. A new Washington Post/ABC News survey finds McCain is now ahead of Obama by 12 points among white women, 53 to 41 percent."Look, until we get to the week before the election, I think the only FAIR thing to say...and I am trying to be genuinely fair here...is that ALL polls are pretty much for shit. There's just too much going on right now and people are simply trying to digest "how" it affects them and what it means in terms of "who" will fix things best. Then again, I hate to prompt yet another bitchy talkback debating race, but I'm sorry -- personally I'm still convinced that all polls are somewhat off due to the Bradlee Polling effect. And I think that unless Obama can open up a SERIOUSLY large lead on McCain by election week -- like 12 or more points -- then if I was a Democrat I'd still be bracing myself to sweat this one out. Personally, I'll be very curious to see "what" the exit poll results were on election night as people FINALLY fess up as to "why" they voted they way they did. But until then it's just too volatile a time to predict how people are going to vote.And along those lines, BSB, I also wouldn't crow about a 2 point Gallup lead. After all, weren't you one of the loudest yelling before -- back when McCain was slightly up -- tat a 2 point lead is nothing, especially since that's still within the margin of error? Weren't you one of the ones yelling loudest before that a national Gallup poll does NOT accurately reflect how the Electoral College will go? As far as I'm concerned, this thing is still dead even and up for grabs. And frankly, given the Wall Street news of late, it's rather telling that Obama STILL can't run away with this thing which just goes to show how many people STILL don't believe in him or trust him or buy into the economic plans that the Democrats are putting forth.As I said before, we haven't even had the debates yet. In Football terms, the fourth quarter has officially started for sure, but it's essentially a tie game and anyone can still take this one...
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is anyone reminded of the Tall Man whenever McCain does his creepy looking smile with those fish teeth of his?
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I ask again, what the fuck is wrong with you? How on Earth can you lot even consider voting for someone with a running mate that is the fucking poster child for insular, backward, extreme cretins?
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there is a fucking world of difference between a moderate religious belief like Christianity and a raving fundamentalist one. And you know it. Palin's ludicrous creationism, which flies in the face of science, is akin to a child putting his hands over his ears and yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over again. That is a filthy disingenuous argument. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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preferential voting. seriously, it's the shit. lets say you want to vote for nader, but you don't want george bush to win. guess what? you can do this! yippie! this is what your voting card would look like 1)nader 2)gore 3)bush. the candidate that comes last has all of the voting cards that have him as number redistributed based on their second preference. this would be simular to someone saying to you, who do you want to win. you say nader. then they say, but if you HAVE to choose between bush and gore, who do you pick. that way a vote for nader isn't a vote for bush, as it was in 2000. seriously guys, it really is the shit. most of the rest of the world has it. (i know for some of that in itself is a reason not to do it) but anyway.
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Damn, that's a long post!! What a way to start my morning!!!!
For the most part I agree with you - there is still a long haul to the election and polls don't matter much on a daily basis. But there is value in pointing out that Obama's rallying an 8 to 10-point net positive swing in just 2 weeks and erasing McPalin's post-RNC bump.
That's great news for us supporters who have watched McCain and Palin smear him endlessly - even going as far as putting out those salacious and vile "kindergarten sex ed" ads - with him barely hitting back. I guess it is about the economy after all and people don't want to talk about lipstick on pigs.
Unfortunately you are right about the Reps benefitting from terrorist attacks - in general. Since Bush and the NeoCons helped pull off 9/11, I hope they don't give us another October Surprise just to put Palin in the White House. And it is clear which party Al Qaeda endorses - they would love to keep up the perpetual war the Reps are so fond of fighting. That both would use terror and fear to win their causes sickens me.
Do y'all remember the last time we had a Homeland Security Alert? It was one of many leading up to the 2004 elections. Practically once a week - Bush was pressing the Orange button just to stoke our collective fears. It worked then, I hope it doesn't work now.
Anyway I'll try to keep the post count down. -
Possibly, but only if the Tall Man got stuck in one of his own interdimensional dwarf making machines.
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I'm not an Obama fanatic, and I don't like that choice either.
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That's not exactly good foreign policy, Johnny ...
Did McCain Diss Spain?
By Lisa Abend Thursday, Sep. 18, 2008
You gotta feel for José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero. Here the Spanish prime minister is only four months from an end to his government's strained relations with that of President George W. Bush and blam! — along comes John McCain to suggest the next four years might not be any better. During an interview in Miami earlier this week with Spanish-language station Union Radio, a reporter asked McCain whether, if elected, he would receive Zapatero in the White House. McCain answered, "Honestly, I have to analyze our relationships, situations, and priorities, but I can assure you that I will establish closer relationships with our friends, and I will stand up to those who want to harm the United States."
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http://www.adn.com/politics/story/511471.html
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...Did any of you see where Palin's vice-principal was interviewed, and she described Palin as "Simplistic - she wants to take us all back to Junior High"?
Also described her as "One of the Popular Girls...but also one of the Mean Girls".
To quote somebody from another site, "Doesn't she remind you of that one college cheerleader with a weird gleam in her eye that was screaming for blood and cheering on her football-team boyfriend as he pounded some poor nerd through the bathroom floor at a party?"
Yeah, that's pretty close.....Don't any of you proud, unenslaved GOPers here think there's something....funny in the way Palin, who came out of nowhere in such a burst of instant celebrity, and quickly got tagged as a "Free Spirit", as a "Woman That Speaks Her Own Mind", as an Unstoppable Voice of Freedom and Integrity From The Great Frontier" would take her "No-Nonsense Attitude" to Washington where her "Unflinching Vision Would Shake Up The Established Washington Order", how, after she said some stupid things, suddenly this Force Of Nature is squirreled away in a RNC think tank / rehearsal bunker and now only comes out for photo ops and regurgitates carefully scripted answers to pre-approved questions?
So much for the Independent Voice of Freedom, eh? Boy, she sure stood up to the Washington Masters, didn't she? I wonder if her leash is a pretty Baby Pink, encrusted with rhinestones and wolf pelts? I'm sure McCain's is a manly patent leather black, with little spaces where they let him pin his medals. -
You're not actually IN radio, are you?
Tell me, how do you feel about a small-town, Ultra-Right Wing Christian station that, time and time again, illegally overamps it's signal, blotting out competing stations in the area? Especially, how does a free-market FCC supporter like you feel when the FCC, when complained to, does absolutely nothing to this lonely little Christian station?
Is that the Free Market at work, or just cheap, ass-kissing politics that CALLS itself "The Free Market"? -
at one time and I am sure the Republicans had thier cronies on the board of Wall street financial institutions. At least the fraudsters are being exposed just like they are in the UK.
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visiting the Alaskan National Guard in Kuwait and visiting wounded soldiers in Germany.
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Hard to know. Either Way The Eu is going to have be very careful. the embattled UK PM Gordon Brown said he was backing obama. McCain was said to be furious. Republican presidents have no time for Ireland. Though bush played his part in the Peace Process's end game. I am wondering if the whole thing falls apart and the peace process is teetering once more on the brink of crisis and if McCain is president what will his stance be. Will it be a McCain/palin/dup love in? will McCain be told about adams background as a terrorist leader. Will McCain shun the shinners?
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3o year year. Nixon was asked what he thought of the Irish and he said he didnt trust the Irish and thought they were dishonest.
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"Especially, how does a free-market FCC supporter like you feel when the FCC, when complained to, does absolutely nothing..."
I think you have the wrong guy. I made the point that radio WASN'T a free market. It is a controlled market. -
Sep 18, 2008 8:17:41 AM CDT
Hey, *I* don't trust the Irish and think they're dishonest...
by kazamasmokers
... and I'm Irish.
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Very true, and stupid, considering there's an estimated 90 million Americans who claim Irish descent. Obama actually has Irish ancestry (not sure if most folk knew that or not). Well, things sure worked out great for Nixon, didn't they!?
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Don't mind me. You're welcome to keep arguing and keep your post count up. It's free country, so rant away. I just like reading your comments on the geek movie stuff, so I just didn't want to see you -- or alot of others here -- bursting a brain blood vessel over this stuff. Man, if everyone is THIS heated a month and a half out then I don't even want to think about how it's going to be on election day.Then again I guess I should have some Tylenol ready -- I just saw a piece on the news that mentioned that Obama and McCain have something 4,000 lawyers EACH lined up across the country, state by state, ready to challenge results depending on how close this turns out. I tell ya', if this turns into another Florida-like recount then I just hope some good movies will be at the mall because I will need to turn off the TV and get away for a bit. I don't know if the country can go through THAT kind of heated experience again, especially if it stands the chance of really getting far, far uglier this time around with charges of racism and sexism mixed in for good measure...
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and ship them to Iraq, along with both candidates and VP's. Have them all strip down and wear a billboard like John in DH3 saying "Drill baby, drill".
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According to my brother, who just emailed me about it. McCain was asked about venezula, Bolivia, Cuba and Spain and didnt differieniate between the EU and latin america. its one thing a soon to be former incumbent not knowing the name of the former Pakistan Leader Gen Musharif but it is a whole other thing not differentiating between Latin America and the EU. Somewhat worrying that. This is what I was getting at in a post about challenging the leaders. McCain will have to brush up on his geography. but I dont know if McCain cares about the world at large. Those debate are going to be fascinating between obama and McCain.
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...and its pathetic, because now you're really getting desperate for new material to spew. First off-- I never once claimed to be the "Champion of Poor People." I never even mentioned poor people....that was HOD and LibWarrior. And I never intended the "waiting tables" thing as a derogatory term. I meant to highlight that I think you are completely full of shit, and I still do. I meant no disrespect to the profession itself. The truth is I have a hell of a lot more respect for the grunt workers that keep a company moving, than I do for the owners. Now you're gonna rant about how I'm elitist, somehow trying to flip this on me. Same tactics used against Obama. Thats right-- the former community organizer is more of an elitist than Mr. Keating 5....sure. Again-- you fit beautifully with typical Republican sentiment. You will try to convince others that in reality Republicans are for the little guy, because after all-- if tax breaks for business keep the businesses here in America, then that means more jobs for everyone!! Right?!! Wrong. Fuck off. Keep believing your own garbage rhetoric. Nobody else here does. And you're doing a good job of painting yourself more and more like a whiny cunt bent on converting others. Karl Rove loves ya'!!! -
His posts are far more entertaining and hilarious than the last 4 Farrelly Brothers movies.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:49:18 AM CDT
ANTICHRIST GEORGE BUSH DENIES AMERICAN P.O.W.s RIGHT TO SUE IRAQ
by bringingsexyback
Watch this everyone. Bush vowed to veto a bill just passed by the House, drafted by a Dem and a Rep, that enables these POWs to sue Iraq for torture in the first Gulf War.
This is the true face of Bush. AntiChrist Satanic Whore.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ (Click the POWS' PLEAS link on the page my fellow Americans!!!) -
amount to 1% of the monthly interest earned on Iraq's American bank deposits. ONLY ONE PERCENT OF THE INTEREST!!! SICK
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Service around here stinks!!!
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If this comes down to another Florida debacle I'm personally going to Ground Zero to back Obama. NO WAY are the Young Republicans gonna scream and steal this election again.
Palin Lied And The Mooses Got Fried -
Obama will have a fun time ribbing McCain about geography. Especially when asked to name the two extra states he claims we have.
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The polls going into the last Presidential election turned out to be frighteningly accurate.
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Whoever wins in November, we lose. The top 1% will continue to make out like gangbusters but the rest of us are circling the drain. If Obama and McCain had a shred of decency, they would give back campaign contributions they received from the banks who are now going under. These guys are class A turkeys so it's fitting one of them will win the presidency a few weeks prior to Thanksgiving.And this election is going to be a mess. The mass registrations and probable machine glitches are going to give us all the finger when we wake up on the 5th.If anyone here is ignorant enough to think that either one of these asshats has the ability to fix our flailing economy then you might as well start investing in cold fusion futures for all the good it will do.Lastly, KazamaSmokers, how's about before you worry about a Fairness Doctrine that governs the airwaves you put our energy into a Fairness Doctrine that seeks to balance out earnings? Who cares if talk radio is mostly right wing propaganda? Focus your fairness energies on the nurse who works an 12-hour shifts, saves the occasional life and is forced to give her kids Sunny D because real orange juice costs too much.
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Damn near every state was red.
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A delicious blend of different fruit juices for that taste kids love.
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Sorry. I'd just woken up.
My point still stands, though. -
I guess no one read my post from way above saying that according to the tax policy center, each of the candidate's tax proposals will lead to trillions more in debt. Does anyone here really think that either will cut governmental spending by an equal amount to pay for such cuts? Moving money from the general fund ain't gonna cut it.
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Redistribute the wealth. If some guy worked hard to build up a business, now that he's on top, we take away from him to give to the people who have yet to do anything.Our company deals with many people who come from other countries, barely know the language and instead of sucking on the government tit (my father's phrase for welfare) they start small businesses. One gentlman I know started with buckets and mops and sold himself as a janitor. Now a few years later, he has a janitorial company and massive contracts. And idiots on here have more respect for grunts than they do for owners? How about respect for everybody who is working trying to make it and congratulations to those who have?The Politics of Envy...where would Democrats be without them?
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Shoplifting! Zabar's here I come!
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The problem is this. My company CEO started with one grocery store. He and his wife busted their humps and 25 years later they now own 100 stores. So I can applaud their hard work.Unfortunately they treat their employees at the store like trash. They pay 1/4 million dollar salaries to young punks at the corporate office who don't have the experience to back that type of paycheck up, but people at the store who have been with the company for over ten years are barely making a living wage.So once again, it all comes down to remembering those who helped build your empire. And few of them do. It's an American sickness. That's why athletes, celebrities, lottery winners all go from one extreme to another. Their brain becomes diseased with entitlement. They were poor, lived in squalor and ate mustard sandwiches as a kid, but that big payday comes around and they have diamonds the size of my fist in their ears, a fleet of Ferraris and Hummers and a house so enormous, there are rooms they will never enter. Humility goes right out the window.I have no problem with achieving the American dream, but these a-holes who say they busted their back to get where they are but conveniently forget that their workforce continues to bust their backs to maintain that empire without just compensation are the lowest form of dirtbag.Call me a Commie all you want. It's not the government's job to ensure equal distribution of wealth but those at the top should have enough shame, enough humanity to realize those keeping them at the top are getting screwed.
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You are correct sir. People should remember where they came from and help out. It is not the government's job. Unfortunately, we have many bad people out there who do what you said. They ruin it for the rest of us. What we need is not government to change things, but we need to look at ourselves. Verrry hard to do.
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I disagree. Of course I understand that all politicians are corporate stooges. But you have to admit that Obama would be a hell of a lot better than a Bush clone. Of course he won't fix all the problems....but he'll steer the country onto the right path instead of digging the hole deeper. I totally respect an approach that is completely anti-corporate run government, but one of these guys will be President. And I know you would prefer Obama.
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educate them, tell them how to go about making their own businesses if they need to. One Cuban guy I know is doing just that. He likes to hear about one of "his boys" breaking away and starting his own business. We need more guys like that.
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and so far you have shown no inclination to earn it, much less attempt to.
What kind of sandwiches do you have on the menu? -
Good job calling out the guy that got banned. Lets see how quick he responds. What a man you are!!
I have never once wished death on you......I have demanded you consume my urine, which could result in death depending on the amount-- but it is unlikely. But oh well.....keep telling stories. Your entire world view is based on fairy tales. Have fun. And do you promise to return the day after the election no matter which side wins? -
'"Especially, how does a free-market FCC supporter like you feel when the FCC, when complained to, does absolutely nothing..." I think you have the wrong guy. I made the point that radio WASN'T a free market. It is a controlled market.'
His point was that it isn't really a controlled market if the FCC won't enforce license regulations. -
Did you know that the Warrior got banned? What the hell did he say?
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It isnt SANDWHICH, its SANDWICH. Normally I wouldn't give a shit. But certainly a restaurant owner wouldn't make this mistake. You have already admitted earlier your establishment does indeed serve SANDWICHES. Going over the menu and the inventory and sales, you must pass this word hundreds of times a week. You may misspell it once by hitting the wrong key....but certainly not twice in the same post.
FUCKING LIAR. -
If I wanted a sandwich, I'll make it myself.
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What happened? I didn't even know he got banned. Danny - can you give us details?
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I dunno what happened. I heard from the CoC TB that he is gone.
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Ease up fella. All the nastiness you rail against on these boards is a staple of the guy you're going to vote for in November. And as I can assume you voted for Bush twice, that means that twice you condoned a piece of filth who gave the go-ahead to allow his campaign to spread vicious, hateful, despicable lies about his opponent in South Carolina back in the 2000 primaries. So please, stop with the martyr talk and condemning us of slinging mud and lies and threats if you're going to continue to support candidates and a system who engage in far worse tactics.And by all means, come back after McCain wins and gloat and sink to the level you claim your adversaries here to be at.In the end, you and I and the other guys here are pretty much the same. I bet you and I could talk for hours over a case of beer about movies and college football. The only real difference is that you appear to have blindly pledged your allegiance to one political party regardless of who they prop up to represent them simply because of their perceived stance on taxation, and possibly a few other issues.But if you want kid gloves or like minded people, then go hang out at Malkin's site or Drudge because around these parts you're mainly dealing with a demographic who thinks Republicans are insane putting the world's first talking chimpanzee at the wheel and keeping him there.
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Sep 18, 2008 11:09:42 AM CDT
Coughlin-- last time I respond to you fucker....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
You have not earned respect from me for the simple reason that you are a fucking liar. You repeatedly twist the comments of others to fit into your own agenda. Like you claiming HOD wished all Republicans dead when he said, "All clueless d-bags should jump off a cliff." You misinterpret the words of others to prove your point. I have said over and over again that I have never once wished you dead, yet you insist on saying otherwise. You are a fucking liar, and a whiny cretin. You have proudly earned the title of Honorary Cunt, and you should now just knock it the fuck off and let me finish my morning tea. FUCK. YOU!!!! -
Sep 18, 2008 11:09:51 AM CDT
OBVIOUSLY COUGLINS HAS FILTERED OUT THE WINGNUT TIRADES
by bringingsexyback
against Obama and the Left and chooses to take the victimization role. Just like McCain and Palin after their smear campaign against Obama failed, miserably.
Pathetic. -
You come on here spouting nonsense, and accuse people of saying things they absolutely did not say or even remotely mean. Then you try and play victim when you get called on your bullshit. There is nothing wrong with presenting a cogent argument. But I have yet to hear you make one.
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I will miss the rampaging black rhino fucked, dumber than zombie shit, inbred macaque and various monkey shit eating references.
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Free him!
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Sep 18, 2008 11:25:00 AM CDT
And yes Danny, I'm guessing I'll end up voting for Obama
by hawaiian organ donor
Even though this a red state and he has zero chance of winning here. But to me voting for Obama is like choosing to have one fingernail pulled out rather than five.You know what's funny? All those conservatives who insisted there was no way in hell they would vote for McCain if he got the nomination are fully onboard and creaming themselves over the ticket with Palin.By contrast, more than a few liberals who were so gung ho for Obama during the primaries have soured on him and are sitting on the fence. To me that's a true measuring stick that Republicans are far more inclined to blindly tow the party line regardless who the candidate is.
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Sep 18, 2008 11:25:33 AM CDT
Harry-- if you want Obama in...then FREE LIBWARRIOR!!!
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Thats my exact reasoning for getting behind him hardcore now. I sensed the Republicans doing what they do best.....BLINDLY UNITING THEIR CORE. Happens every time. And if I had the choice...I would surely choose to lose one fingernail over five.
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"His point was that it isn't really a controlled market if the FCC won't enforce license regulations."
Well, it is certainly a de jure controlled market if not always a de facto one.
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He won't let the motards go unanswered. But whomever he was battling must've been axed too. I don't notice anyone else missing though...
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Too bad medieval England and France didn't have the Internet.
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Sep 18, 2008 11:33:52 AM CDT
HARRY!! When Liberal Warrior was banned.......
by dannyglovers_dickblood
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of liberals suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. This could cost Obama the election!! -
'"His point was that it isn't really a controlled market if the FCC won't enforce license regulations." Well, it is certainly a de jure controlled market if not always a de facto one.'
So... it doesn't matter if it isn't REALLY regulated as long as we SAY it is on paper?
Hokey Dokey... -
I was one of the ones who was not happy with McCain. And yes, when he picked Sarah Palin it cemented my vote. I was going to vote for him anyway because the left is garbage...but when he chose Palin, he got my respect. Why? Because she is more conservative than he is. Simple as that. And yes, she may very well be President some day.
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Thanks for clarifying.
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Right on. Right on. And, you are not an idiot. Don't listen to that guy named after the blood in the dick of some actor who thinks Fidel Castro is a great guy. :)
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Sep 18, 2008 12:15:25 PM CDT
"And yes, she may very well be President some day."
by hawaiian organ donor
Flying Spaghetti Monster help us all.That is easily the most disturbing thing I've read this year.
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Seriously? Jabs at my handle? Yeah...Danny Glover's politics were my biggest concern when I created my name. Grow the fuck up.
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I expected nothing more from DannyGlovers_Dickblood than a personal insult.
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Seriously...the thought frightens me a lot less than having a not-very-successful Community Organizer at the helm. The man barely worked in the Senat for 143 days before he decided to put out his Presidential Exploratory Committee. He has nor earned his stripes, that man. He's done nothing but give speeches and write two books...about himself. No executive experience at all. And his leftist politics? No thank you.
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The most disturbing thing I have heard this year is that Barack Obama may change this country permanently to something far different exactly the same way Woodrow Wilson did. If you don't think a liberal president can dramatically "CHANGE" the country for the worse, just learn about Woodrow Wilson who did. I find the government takeover and bailout of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and AIG to be very disturbing stuff- we are making HUGE strides towards socialism, just as we did under Woodrow Wilson, and I am positive that Obama is thuroughly pleased by this.
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Let me get this straight. Simply because he picked a conservative as a running mate you are now voting for him? Not because he picked a qualified running mate who could assume the presidency in the event of his demise, but simply because she is conservative? And you are proud enough of this to announce it on a public site? My god.
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Looking at the town of Wasilla's financials, 3 of the 7 years expenditures exceeded revenues. Bond per capita tripled. Please see my post from last night.Nor did she give back the $27M or so to the government for the bridges to nowhere. It was spent on various projects.And how in the world could you think her being president is a good thing is beyond me.
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I was going to vote for him anyway...read above. I was lukewarm towards him (I was a Romney fan) but when he went to Palin who is conservative...it made me fell better. And yes, I am thinking of the future. I would like another conservative at the helm and not a leftist.Proud to announce it here? Should I be ashamed? Look around you. Yeeeeah. Class acts one and all.
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Well, I just want you to know that someone is on your side as you argue sober reasoning. From what I read of your arguments, you have offered nothing more than optimism in individual peoples ablility to succeed no matter what their background. That attitude is cryptonite to a liberal. And so that talkbacker named after the guy who roots for Fidel Castro's success over the success of Fidel Castro's own people is understandably going to call you an idiot when you have such optimism.
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Been to Chicago lately?
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that Bush has brought onto us the past eight years, right boys?
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As I've said before, I'm not for Obama either.
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"So... it doesn't matter if it isn't REALLY regulated as long as we SAY it is on paper?"
Sorry if I gave that impression. I was simply saying that perhaps that one instance is the exception that proves the rule. -
Hey...you guys think Track Palin could be President someday? A Palin dynasty! :)
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...that he got your respect because he demonstrated he's weak enough to pander to you? And you know that if he DOESN'T die in office that's all it is, as the VP doesn't have authority to do ANYTHING unless the president delegates it?
And you respect him in spite of the fact that this is obviously pandering and that he expects you to fall for it? Doesn't that mean he thinks you're... gullible? -
Oops...sorry. Should have read better.
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isn't very conservative. Sure, she cut property taxes, but that was small potatoes compared to the 2% sales tax that was implemented, that's where their main source of revenue comes from.
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I love it. This is the new weapon against me. I am named after a guy who loves Fidel Castro. Jesus fucking Christ!! Are you two numb-skulls Christians by any chance?
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Blue_Demon- you are comfortably the stupidest poster on here. Even Anchorite and others on the far end of the right think Palin is a horrendous choice, but she actually is encouraging you to vote republican? Fuck me rigid- I'm not a liberal and have no say, but if I did then the thought of that creationist nut job with a piss poor record, absolute lack of qualification and at best shady past as President is something that terrifies me. Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
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Not exactly...I am conservative and had problems with him. But he is better than Obama...way better. When he leaves office, we will have a good shot at another conservative. It means that he didn't abandon his true base. We were wondering where McCain went. You may call that gullible. As I have stated...ANYTHING is better than Senator Obama and his politics of envy. Anything. He is the least qualified person running for office today among all candidates.
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It is my understanding that most people rally behind Obama almost entirely because he is liberal (and very liberal at that). So why would it disturb you to see someone follow Palin chiefly because she is very conservative? Of course another big reason that people follow Obama is for a reason far more superficial. But perhaps healing your deep personal sense of misplaced guilt doesn't seem so vein to you. The fact is people were having orgasms over Obama long before he had said anything specific about his policy plans- and I still think he hasn't been very specific. The reasoning behind following Obama has ALWAYS been superficial and empty, well until recently- only in recent weeks does there seem to be some actual substance to the guy. Not entirely good substance in my opinion, but my opinion isn't what I am talking about right now.
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Granted, some have not put that point to you boys as nicely as others, but it is a extremely valid point. You're worried about socialism taking over this country, like maybe Obama would pull a fast one on us? Presidents don't do that. Not at all. Not one bit.
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Reading comprehension is important. One more time: I was going to vote for McCain anyway. She did not make me vote for him because (again...read carefully) I was going to vote for him anyway. Iva votar por el como quiera.And again, Governor Palin has executive experience. Senator Obama does not. People are voting in a man who has done nothing. Nothing at all. And you call me stupid?Honestly gents...honestly.
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And how has McCain been anymore specific about his policy plans?
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Well I am just making fun of your name, you know, for the hell of it. Big deal. He does in fact love Fidel Castro- that's not disputed. I'm just pointing out how weird liberal minds are, that Danny Glover is so damn liberal that he admires dictators who force leftist philisophy on his people, and brutally. I don't care if you named yourself that because of that fact or not. For all I know, you don't even like Fidel Castro.
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Sep 18, 2008 12:40:22 PM CDT
Samus Aran -- you're using it as a personal jab against me...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...and I don't fucking appreciate it. I can give a fuck about Danny Glover's political views. Fuck Hugo Chavez, fuck Fidel Castro, and most importantly FUCK YOU.
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"I find the government takeover and bailout of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and AIG to be very disturbing stuff- we are making HUGE strides towards socialism"======= That's not socialism. That's cronyism. It's also Corporate Fascism. But it's not traditional socialism.
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I was reading my post to you, and I realized that I may have implied that you personally are following Obama out of guilt. That is not what I meant. Please don't interpret it that way. I meant many liberals are doing that- not specifically you.
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I wanted to clarify that before you got mad at me about that.
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The Policy of Envy is sort of like that great track from 1983 by Re-Flex, "The Politics of Dancing." And we all know McCain is more specific about his policies because he begins every speech with "My Friends."
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Government controlling corporations. That's not socialism? Then I need to learn more about what socialism is. You are a true scholar, and I am but a humble learner.
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Who is in office now? Who is making the decisions now! I have told you before about errors in judgement and making statements are simply unsupported by facts or truth! And here you go again. So desperate to paint Obama with a liberal brush, so despearte to try and form a 'case' against him, that you completely ignore the present reality. Russia invaded Georgia on the Bush watch. Yemen embassy attacked on the Bush watch. Iraq war started on Bush watch. Massive financial failures occured on Bush watch. Even more massive bailouts occurred on Bush watch. Repuplican appointed heads of regulatory agencies not dong their jobs, or authorizing hundreds of billions of dollsars in bailouts. But YOU are afraid of what Obama might do? Grow up. I mean really. It is one thing to dislike Obama, fine, but learn some history. Make an argument based on the truth, not on a rant or because you think it is true. And maybe you will earn some respect. Until then, you are simply a runny-nosed child with a keyboard whose lolly pop fell in dog shit.
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Fastball down the middle. Would anyone like to do the honors?=====
"And again, Governor Palin has executive experience."=====
And she can see Russia from her house. Really. How many time is your party going to bend you folks over and show you a picture of Dan Quayle and know you sycophants are going to buy it? At some point it stops being politics and becomes a mental illness.
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The Politics of Envy is always used by leftists. "Look at how many houses McCain has! How many do you have?" They count on anger to vote them into office. Anger and jealousy. Did it ever occur to people that the rich may have EARNED their wealth? Did it ever occure to the left that perhaps if they work they can put themselves in a better place? That is what I mean by that. When Senator Obama actually suggested that African American men should take more responsibility, Jesse Jackson threatened him with bodily harm (Nuts.Snip.) Why? Because his base (angry, envious people) would be diminished if they actually worked for something and became happier.Envy is a poison. Instead of feeling envy, one should look at those who have and say, "Hey...he did it...perhaps I can too!"Alas, lunchtime is over, gents. Gotta go. It's been informative. :)
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Here is a little description of the relationship between socialism and corporations as it were... Economically, socialism denotes an economic system of state ownership and / or worker ownership of the means of production and distribution. In the U.S.S.R., state ownership of the means of production was combined with central planning — what goods and services to make and provide, how they were to be produced, the quantities, and the sale prices (cf. Economy of the Soviet Union). Soviet economic planning was an alternative to allowing the market (supply and demand) to determine prices and production. During the Great Depression, socialists considered Soviet-style planned economies the remedy to Capitalism's inherent flaws — monopoly, business cycles, unemployment, unequally distributed wealth, and the economic exploitation of workers. So are you comfortable with the state owning the means of production? Either you are, or you don't understand the basic nature of the government system you seem to want.
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"That's not socialism?"
It's more like corporations controlling government. That's fascism. Or, more accurately, when you can't tell the difference between one and the other anymore. If THE PEOPLE actually had control of their government, do you think they would have approved these bailouts? Corporate lobbyists made sure these bailouts happened.
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So then can I use the term "Politics of Avoidance" for Republicans who can't define all of McCain's policies (since apparently he's been more forthcoming than Obama), how Palin is actually conservative, how Palin has executive experience, why anyone would have voted for Bush a second time?
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Here's a lesson in State politics. When you ask the Federal government for money and they give it to you, and you decide the project is stupid, you do NOT GIVE BACK THE MONEY. Giving the money back would fuck up the whole system and everybody would think you were stark raving mad. Spending the money on something else is standard operating peoceedure.
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How does anything you just said relate to what I just said against you? You went on a total tangent there. I told you that the follow of Obama was based almost purely on the fact that he is liberal- bacause you were trashing blue demon for following Palin for being conservative. Instead of responding to that specifically, you just argued against the supposable recent republican record. Why don't you respond to what I said? I'll tell you why you don't respond, because you are a smart guy and you realize that the next thing I would ask you is what substantive ideas Obama had six months ago that you were so energized by. Any answer to that question would have either looked pathetic and again superficial, or have been a lie.
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The state simply assumed the economic liability.
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I've been convinced thoroughly enough that all conservatives can do is parrot Hannity-esque rhetoric."You have offered nothing more than optimism in individual peoples ability to succeed no matter what their background. That attitude is cryptonite to a liberal."Uh-huh. That's why there are no self-made liberal success stories. Every single lib is down in the gutter begging for handouts.But if that's our kryptonite, I'll take it compared to what repels conservatives. Show them logic, compassion and a brain capable of thinking for itself and hiss like a vampire exposed to the cross.Conservatives have bought into the whole mantra that their party is fiscally responsible and reduces government and yet under Bush and Reagan, spending exploded and government actually expanded. So go ahead and keep drinking the kool aid that convinces you electing someone like McCain/Palin is going to do anything but continue that woeful legacy.The only thing that conservatives continue to maintain from their platform is guns, God, keeping gays as second class citizens and trying to return women as second class citizens. Oh yeah, that's a party to be proud of.If you want to give the finger to Democrats, I'll be right there with you giving them the Super Finger(TM), but you're smoking crack if you think this country is going to continue anywhere but down under McCain.And I love the mentality that is capable of saying, "I find the government takeover and bailout of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and AIG to be very disturbing stuff- we are making HUGE strides towards socialism, just as we did under Woodrow Wilson, and I am positive that Obama is thoroughly pleased by this." Well, McCain's party is the one assisting in the bail out so he must be pleased too. Only a Republican can take the crap happening under his party's watch and spin it to make the opposition look bad.
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You and I have never spoken before, so I'm going to ask you a question that I always ask the hard-core conservatives on this board - something that they never - repeat, NEVER answer.
A fact that I find fascinating, as so much of the conservative mind-set these days involves seeing politics as just another - or even adjunct - Belief System. A distinct attitude that if you are unfaithful to the cause, that if you ever express a moment of doubt or concern, then you are WEAK. Weak and Unfitting to receive whatever reward that will be handed to the unwaveringly devout.
So:
What WOULD it take for you to vote Non-Republican? What would McCain or Palin have to do, how badly would they have to screw up for you to go - "Jeez - I didn't sign up for THAT!"
Would they have to be caught watching PBS? Unknowingly videotaped kicking starving Namibian children? Unwittingly saying into a live mike "You know what? FUCK poor people. They ain't voting for me anyway."? Nailed on hi-def surveillance video in a boardroom saying "The bribe for the bailout is exactly THIS much, Mr.CEO."?
I'm serious. Have you ever even considered that any candidate, especially yours, is even capable of committing an act like any of those? Or is it just too impossible, too frightening, even after the rule of guys like Nixon and Cheney, to admit that your side may not be as noble, moral and deserving of leadership as they like to claim? Or do they just frighten you so much, that you won't risk defying them? -
Would a maverick give it back or conform to the system of spending every last penny?
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That's right, we can't describe McCain's policies, because he hasn't offered any ideas hardly- just like Obama. So basically we are forced to choose between two canidates who have no specific ideas- and thus we all have to choose the canidate that follows the party that at least somewhat follows our basic political philosophy. It's a stupid race so far- on both sides. That doesn't mean I don't care who wins. We are hoping that McCain and Palin will offer some very specific plans that sound like they will work- you guys are hoping that for Obama as well. Like I said, until that happens, we just have to vote for the party we like the best. You guys should be happy- you have the most left leaning democrat you could possibly get, and we have the most left leaning republican we could possibly get- one way or another- you guys win.
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"The most disturbing thing I have heard this year is that Barack Obama may change this country permanently to something far different exactly the same way Woodrow Wilson did. If you don't think a liberal president can dramatically "CHANGE" the country for the worse, just learn about Woodrow Wilson who did.
I find the government takeover and bailout of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and AIG to be very disturbing stuff- we are making HUGE strides towards socialism, just as we did under Woodrow Wilson, and I am positive that Obama is thuroughly pleased by this"
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That offer goes out to blue_demon, Samus Aran and the other ultra-conservatives on this board, as well...
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Uh... I support him simply and almost solely because he is a technocrat.
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Your compassion to the poor comes in the form of tying their hands down to the ground and feeding them prostrate for the rest of their lives.
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It like the State Lotteries. They tell you it's for education but it goes straight into the general fund. That's the reason funds are "earmarked". So you can't spend it on your sisters divorce.
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What draws you to the Republican party as of right now. What do they stand for that agrees with you? For the past eight years it's been anything but fiscally conservative, and as pointed out before, when was the last time a Republican President was conservative? Are you for abortion, regardless of the circumstance like Palin? Against gay marriage or unions? Did you have a problem when your own party's President lied about Iraq? And no matter who wins, the country loses. Not the rich though, which is all that matters.
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Samus Aran Sep 18th, 2008
01:01:54 PM
"That's right, we can't describe McCain's policies, because he hasn't offered any ideas hardly- just like Obama. "===== Samus... about halfway up this thread, you posted four or five issues you were concerned with and I responded with some of Obama's positions and ideas on each one. In light of that exchange, how can you post the above?
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Is there anything that your Republican Presidents, current and potential, can do that would make you think the Republican party has serious issues?
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Oh fuck off. Try to grow a heart-- difficult for a right winger I know. No fucking Democrat on the planet wants to hand out freebies for the rest of time. Democrats are by nature, compassionate. They feel it is a good idea to help people out when they are down. Sure-- many will take advantage of this. Thats human nature. But it is our duty as human beings to help those less fortunate. If you can't comprehend that, then thats your problem.
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Which makes Palin no different than any other politician, yes? So why is she now the "chosen" one?
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"Democrats are by nature, compassionate."Never a good idea to generalize. There is compassion on both sides of the aisle, as it were. Don't let all the hate mongering blind you from seeing that. Otherwise you are no better than the extremists on both sides.
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Once more into the fray I go."The Politics of Envy is always used by leftists. "Look at how many houses McCain has! How many do you have?" They count on anger to vote them into office. Anger and jealousy. Did it ever occur to people that the rich may have EARNED their wealth?"Blue Demon, can you please give us one, just one original thought from that mass you call a brain? All you do is repeat the nightly rantings of Boortz, Hannity and Savage.No, no, no! The left is NOT envious of wealth. We got a whole lot of rich f-ers roaming the country ourselves. What we do find offensive is someone who owns more property than he can count on one hand with a wife who struts around in ensembles that could pay off both my house and yours calling his opponent an elitist. It takes a mighty impressive set of stones to condemn a guy for being something when you're that something times 10. And really, only a true conservative can buy into it.They voted for Bush because he was the guy they could have a beer with. And look where that got us.And now they're voting for McCain simply because he paraded out a running mate who they perceive as one of their own. Ooooo-kay. Yes, all lipstick wearing hockey moms get to hop on a plane and travel for 12 hours after their water breaks so that they can deliver the baby in their hometown. Uh-huh, she's one of us alright. No privilege apparent there.
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Jodi Rell. Or Olympia Snowe. But the two of them are pariahs in the modern GOP because they are fiscally conservative, but they are cultural moderates. THAT alone should tell you something about how twisted the GOP has become in the past 20 years. It went from being the party of Ike to the party of Segretti, Atwater and Rove.
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I never said Democrats are compassionate and Republicans are not. I could have though. I have yet to see evidence of a compassionate Republican....but I'm sure one or two exist. -
Thats is an excellent question, but to be fair, it must be asked of Dems and independants as well. Part of the reason, is that people who become fanatically committed to any group or cause - for an example Abortion or gun control, develop an irrational knee jerk reaction to any change, because they fear that any crack will lead to a flood. So when perfectly good and decent and common sense legislation comes about, they fight it as if hell itself will open and swallow them up. Give no inch, none whatsoever. This exists on BOTH sides of the issues. And it translates into the political choices as well. Samus Aran admits he does not know McCains policies, but will vote for him anyway. Samus Aran thinks the country is sliding into socialism, and is against the big bailouts, but just which party has the white house now? He leveled a rant against socialism and the bailouts and then tried to tie it to Obama! I shake my head at such twisted thinking. The same twisted thinking that can lead anyone to believe Palin is qualified - such as Blue Demon. Here is the academic background of the big four Obama:
Occidental College - Two years.
Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
& Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank 894 of 899
& Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism -
Because she's right wing, she's not too smart like Hillary was, and because she's got high cheekbones and a nice rack. As for experience. American's believe that with a week's experience they could do any job. Hoe many movies have you seen where a guy gets a job he's completely unqualified for and in a month he's doing fine. Like the little kid in "Big" for example.
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"Your compassion to the poor comes in the form of tying their hands down to the ground and feeding them prostrate for the rest of their lives."OK, sure. That's why I spent years giving up every weekend I had helping build houses for the less fortunate who HAD to contribute 100 hours of their own time to the construction process and HAD to make monthly payments on time afterwards. That's me, Bastard McPrick, who's only method of helping the lower class is handing them a fiver with my boot on their throat.
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You've gotta hand it to Bush after completely destroying Republicans foreign Policy credibility with Iraq he has now removed another sacred cow he and the NeoCons championed for the Republicans. Namely DEREGULATION.
Seen many pundits, Republicans or McCain asking for LESS regulation on Wall Street lately ? Nor will you.
It's now accepted that Wall Street, short selling, derivatives, the rules on liquidity and international Banking treaties are all going to come under intense scrutiny and legislation after the colossal turmoil of the last week.
And for those who didn't realise it the Economy hasn't suddenly become the Number 1 issue for voters. It has been the number 1 issue for voters for many, MANY months and by quite some margin ahead of Iraq and health care.
This week has just made absolutely certain that the candidates can't ignore it any longer and that everything will have to be framed in the context of the Economy from now until November.
Any of the few remaining voters sitting on the fence about the importance of the Economy have been kicked off the fence HARD by this chaos.
This isn't a one week wonder either. Hopefully the markets CAN calm down and stabalize but the damage has been done and when the earthquake from Wall Street starts to rumble through to the rest of the Economy the aftershocks hitting everything from unemployment to house prices & foreclosure to inflation to consumer confidence will not be pleasant.
Where now Republican credibility on Fiscal responsibility and competence ? -
...but I'm going to pat myself on the back as I leave as I think I've maintained some funny @ss posts in spite of having to spar with a roomful of broken records.
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Because everybody in congress is being paid off NOT to regulate. Besides, what's the government supposed to do, pass a law that you can't lend money to prospective homeowners? Pass a law that you can't make a bad investment without clearing it through congress?
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It even came back! That's awesome to the max! Radical! Tres cool! Bitchin! Far out! The bomb! Stellar Evil Ted! Excellent! Bocci Balls! Kool & Tha Gang!On a different note....did you guys see where Nu Line is apparently (rumor?) offering Conan to fucking Brett Ratner??!?!!Oh and as far as politics...I hope John McCain wins and then personally drops napalm on all of your houses! Ok...maybe balloons filled with whipped cream or maybe cream corn. It's not like anybody has to die because they've got the wrong political idea.I also hope Obama gets elected and changes the name of 1600 to "The Black House" which would be awesome to the max! Personally, I don't see why we don't use Louis Black's idea for prez...put a chimpanzee on a plane...give him lots of candy and maybe some whisky...strap a parachute to his back and shove his pink ass out of the plane. When he lands and drops the chute...the first person he walks up to and holds their hand HAS to be president for the next four years.How is that complicated? Consequences, schmonsequences...as long as I'm RICH!!!!!!!!booyaa
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I think he is an arrogant, boorish, bully of a man. but...I have to agree with him on this point and it applies as much to the Us as it does to the UK. You hear alot about the word Change, but Change into what. Does anyone really know what McCain, or obama really stand for. Campbells point is a good one. I know things are different in the US. But all the opposition parties in the UK should be challenging the Tories and the media should be doing the same. Is that happening in the US?
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I am pro-racks. Might as well have script girl as VP then.
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...I think the single most important qualification for being president is fucking break-dancing.If you cannot bust at least 5 complete back spins, and at least 10 full sweep 'hands on the crotch' windmills then you simply cannot be President of the United States of America. Go be a Pizza Hut manager or something and leave the govamint runnin to those best able to bust a move. Bleeark.
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For laying out this turd filled swamp for the rest of us fools to wade through while you sit back and remain silent. I bared my soul and got kicked up and down the street. The least you could do is lay down some covering fire for a brother.
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Fred meekly adds. Please don't ban Fred.
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Burping is kind of like farting though your mouth.
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Oh, absolutely. The same should be asked of Demos. I myself HAVE asked that question, and I know my answers. Ted Kennedy never ran for anything that I could vote for him, but I'd vote for Newt Gingrich before I'd vote for that pathetic ass-coverer. Adlai Stevenson the IIIrd was the exact type of ineffective, overly-intellectual "elitist" that the GOP so loves to pretend doesn't exist within their own ranks. I wasn't too crazy about some of the shit Clinton did, the ethical slipperiness, the "Situational Ethics", but I'll tell you one thing:
I can be a mean, heartless motherfucker when I think the situation requires it - but even I would never want to be a fly on the wall the day that John McCain has to explain to his adopted daughter why he turned the other cheek when Bush and his scumbag re-election team called his little girl a "n*****r baby".
No doubt about that. That's where I drew the line with John McCain. That's where I stopped believing the "maverick", "hero" bullshit. I simply can't imagine McCain trying to tell his kid, "Well, honey, I did for America..."
If I was John McCain and I knew that sleazy little sack of shit Karl Rove sent operatives into a closely-contested state to spread rumors like that, Trust Me - the next time I bumped into Turd Blossom at a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser and DIDN'T tear his balls off, gouge out at least one of his eyes and then take a long hot piss on him, right in front of any reporter that felt like taking a picture - that would be the day that I'd never dare show my face in daylight again, let alone work up the fucking nerve to run for President of the United States with the same political party that endorsed an act of political cuntery like Rove's.
Come On, blue_demon, Samus, all the rest of you faithful - Come On, Big Talkers - You've all gone strangely silent since I asked my original question almost two hours ago.
Well? What act of heresy would be too much for you, too unforgivable for Hannity to sweep under the rug, too horrible for you to close your eyes and pray to God to burn the memory from your brain?
Well? I've fucking waiting here.....You demand "respect", do you? Then you'd better start setting some fucking standards. -
Hear the news. Rack up 800 billion in bad debt making bad loans and then dump all the crap on the government and let the taxpayers take the loss. No wonder capitalists love this county.
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"I can be a mean, heartless motherfucker when I think the situation requires it..." ===== Wow, Steve, I loved that scene where you kicked Kris Kristofferson's ass in "Fire Down Below".
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What would it take for me to vote Non-Republican? I wold not vote a man back in if he completely turned on me. If McCain appoints an activist juddge he has shown me that he's forgetting his party. If he turns to the left, he won't get my vote again. But I will always vote conservative over liberal. Always. And you're talking to a Hispanic guy here who's the son of a farm laborer, not a rich white dude.
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I'm at work and I can only respond on breaks or lunch. But I answered you.
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I don't remember asking for respect. (wtf?)
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As far as experience goes...Senator Obama has quite a bit doesn't he? Again, the man has done little more pen two autobiographies. I'm not going to vote for a lefty...and even if I was a lefty, I'd wonder at the wisdom of voting in a man because of his version of "What I did on My Summer Vacation."
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Time to get back to the wonderful world of Insurance.Totally unrelated: Does "Blindness" look like a scary movie, or what? I'm in line for that one already. :)
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Sep 18, 2008 3:40:00 PM CDT
Demon, I'll see your conservative son of a Hispanic farm worker
by kazamasmokers
and raise you Cesar Chavez.
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You're a very smart dude. Keep up the good fight.
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"But I will always vote conservative over liberal. Always."It's time to settle the tab, Half Baked. You can't reason with a sheep.And as a guy who's 50% Hispanic, I weep. I don't understand Log Cabin Republicans or conservative Hispanics. Those things should only exist in bizarro world.
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Don't believe a word Blue Demon says. If he's willing to vote for a guy who was stabbed in the back by his own party with the most despicable smear campaign in modern political history and ran back to them with open arms, then he'd be willing to do same if his party "betrayed" him as well.Logically, it doesn't hold water.If you asked a hard core neoncon woman two months ago what she thought of mothers with pregnant teenager daughters, that right wing nutjob would have teed off. Ask them the same question now and that it's a completely different story.Conservatives have more waffles than Belgium.
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But Joe sixpack really believes that if you gave him a desk, a secretary and a phone, he could run a multinational corporation. In fact, a lot of people believe that requiring experience and education is just another way for the man to keep then down.
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You are a tool and a moron.
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I didn't respond to your question to ultra conservatives because I hadnt read it up till now. Sure I would be happy to respond to that. More than happy. I used to really dig Bill O'Reilly. I felt that he had a good opinion and underststood reality well. I still do, but after that one controversy of the sexual harrasment, I paid close attention and noticed that he never once actually denied the charge. I don't watch him so much anymore. I think he still has correct opinions in most cases, but I have to admit- he does come off as somewhat of a hypocrit. I don't follow republicans like little jesus's. In fact I am hesitant to call myself a republican. Republican is a party filled with selfish sellouts (Democrats are the same by the way). I don't even know if hardly any of the Republican elite even care about conservativism- likewise I don't believe that democrat elites really care about progressivism- take Ted Kennedy for example- he doesnt care about shit but getting his nob polished while stearing his awesome sail boat. Perhaps if you have read my posts, you may see that I am quite critical of McCain. There is not much that excites me about him, and I have repeated that here time and again. So for you to think that I hold him to some god like esteem is obviously wrong. Right now, I see Sarah Palin as a breath of fresh air- someone who actually believes what she says- this is how most conservatives are seeing her right now. It wouldn't take much to destroy that image I have of her, and she would descend into the typical uninteresting politicians of our day. So she is not unimpeachable. But up to this point, all I have seen is a desperate attempt to destroy her character in the eyes of the public by a gargantuan group of liberals who hate her more than anyone in the world. After her acceptance speach at the RNC, I said that I am anticipating the news that she has received a clean headshot, and her brains sprayed all over the pavement- this day may yet come. Because I have already seen lies made against her from every direction, I default to not believing a single negative thing about her. If I discover that some horrible skeleton is in her closet, I will ditch the esteem I have of her as quickly as I lost respect for Obama after the Jeremiah Wright stuff. And Half-Baked, how rediculous that you ask such a question when you have ignored heinous facts about Obama. It seems the best place to hide stuff is in plain view because there is all the evidence you need not to respect Obama, and you seem to not care. All you need to do is pay attention to even his own books to see what an angry character he is. You sound like a hypocrit asking this question. Even though most of the stuff said about Palin have been totally fabricated, none of those lies sound nearly as shocking as the obviously true stuff about Obama which he freely admits and writes about in his books. The best place to hide stuff is in plain view. Nobody will think to look for it there. Does this satisfy your curiosity? I think I just explained clearly that I am open to turning my back on canidates the moment truly bad stuff comes out. Even then, the choice between one bad character and another bad character would leave me with a perplexing choice to make. I feel I am already in that position, but Palin so far seems like a spot of light. I seriously hope she is as good a person as she claims to be. If you care about getting corruption out of politics, you should hope she is as good as she claims to be as well. If she was a democrat but truly seemed like a crusader against corruption, I would be just as excited. Lord merciful Jesus almighty sheperd her through the valley of darkness, for she is truly her brothers keeper, cast down and rebuke those who attempt to poison and destroy my sister. Amen.
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woa, gotta call you on that one (i'm not in favor of either candidate) the thing with bailing out banks, particularly big ones is that together those banks (this is not a hard number) represent more than 50% of american morgates. i think fannie may and freddie mac (one of my friends was asking me the other day what i thought about the collapse of bernie mac) held like 40%. just think about what would happen if they went under. It would be worse than an financial crisis in american history. and i don't just bandy that term around as it has been lately. Plus if anything in the long run there are negitive effects on the little guy from this and positive effects for the big guy. so much for it being socialism. this comes to what is called 'the too big to fail effect'. This is a type of moral hazard. basically the banks know that if a big bank goes under, so too does the whole economy so they specifically make themselves overly big (though mergers and lots of other ways) to get free insurance. this is not a formal thing btw, just implicit. once they have done this they can make bonanza profits by taking on lots of risk. if the gamble pays off they get lots of money. if it dosn't you the tax payer pay for their mistakes. now that sounds like socialism dosn't it?
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and I'd be the first to tell you Ted should have done jail time... but is there another American Dyanasty that has done more for the working class? EVERY holiday the Kennedys are dishing out food at soup kitchens around New England. They ask news crews not to show up because they don't want it publicized. Have the Bushes created anything to rival the Special Olympics? Have the Cheneys created a Citizens Oil Corporation? Have the Rumsfelds forced the clean up of the Hudson River?
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All though his youth he ran up huge debts and when he reached forty he told all his creditors that unless he became rich and famous, they'd never get their loans back. So everyone promoted Caesar and the rest is history.
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You and I agree perfectly. PERFECTLY. I think you must have misunderstood me then. I know that there was no choice but to bail them out (You accidentally called Fredie Mac, Bernie Mac- that's fine they have both been in the news lately:) ). Anyways, you are exactly right- there seems to have been no choice but to help them. Right now big companies are merging as I understand it in order to become too big to be allowed to fall under- just like you said. We agree point for point. Basically, the companies are entering a world without consequences- unfortunately this is a socialist world. Socialism is a world without consequences- somebody always there to bail you out- so you might as well do whatever you want. Companies are starting to feel free to take huge risks- because the consequences no longer are going to exist soon. This is terrible shit we are going into. I don't know, but I believe these are the fruits of a brilliantly conceived plan by democrats in years past put in motion to get this going. Cue the insults to me for thinking such ludicrous conspiracy theories. AIG has been in trouble as I understand it since the mid nineties, and now is the culmination of it. These companies are victom to hyper regulation in years past by the party that likes to regulate things. With enough regulation a company begins a slow but deliberate downward spiral. Here we are. Entrance into socialism. Chipps, I never said that the government should not have bailed these companies out- we have no choice right now. I think that the colapse of these companies has been orchastrated by the party that stands to bennefit the most from the colapses. Does anyone think the republicans want private corporations to fail? ANYONE? Only democrats root for such things- then they can say "AHA" see, see- capitalism doesn't work- we need to put these companies under control of the government- we told you so. Well it's happening- pay attention please.
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Just want to check to see if you know where that dynasty got it's money in the first place. Not to really discredit what you are saying, just want to make sure you are comfortable with that. If I have to spell it out to you, basically it is a family that was the kind of "family" that they are talking about in The Godfather. And now they are the dynasty of America- how cute.
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Old Joe essentially stole it from rich Yankee WASPs. Hey, it's not like he was getting rich off the Nazis or anything....
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Because she or McCain certainly haven't denied most of the stuff doing the rounds.
Unless you mean the Daily Kos rubbish that Obama and his campaign never once went near ? That it ? Or the Inquirer story about her affair with the business associate ? Sorry but your beef there is with the Enquirer who lest we forget was the Republican paper of record and praised to the skies for Edwards.
She tried to ban books from a Library. She is a creationist. She wants to ban abortions for incest and rape. She wants to overturn Roe Vs Wade. She was for the Bridge to nowhere before she flip-flopped when it became unpopular but still kept the money. She recieved Washington earmarks for Millions including such essentials as studying crabs fucking. She thinks being able to see Russia from Alaska equates to foreign policy experience. She didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. She left Wasilla 20 Million in debt after her stint as Mayor. She charged women for Rape kits as mayor after they were Raped.
Point out which of these are lies please ?
And while we're at it, hypocrisy would be whining about scrutiny of Palin then STILL trying to smear Obama with Wright while ignoring the unbelievable views of a lunatic like Hagee who endorsed McCain.
Besides I've seen Palin trying to campaign on the Economy this week and it is truly fucking embarrassing. She's way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of her depth and boy does it show.
Putting your fingers in your ears and shouting because FACTS about Palin show her to be anything but a safe or reasonable choice for VEEP is amusing but will accomplish nothing.
And nationalisation would seem to be a somewhat socialist policy but the the more correct term would be Corporate Welfare. -
Because if you understand the history of the Irish in America, you know that he pretty much ripped off The Enemy.
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I was going to blast you off the page in an insult laden rant I hope would be worthy of the Great fallen Liberal Warrior. But I decided, you are not worth it. Because there are only two possiblities at work here. A) You really believe what you just said. In which case you are hopelessly motarded and not a damn thing I can say would change it. But let me try anyway: Alan Greenspan. Republican. The culprit was DEREGULATION, not regulation. And Republicans pushed it. No regulation for issuing sub-prime mortgages. When some regulation was forced back through, Greenspan sat on it for over five years. None was put into place until this past July. By his successor. I am not making this up. There was a story on msnbc website last night. google it. B) You are just playing devils advocate to rile people up and get a response. And believe me Samus. For your sake, I truly, truly hope that is all you are doing. And that you do not believe what you just wrote. I am being very serious here. Because if you do believe that. I really feel sorry for you.
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Yes let's celebrate the elevation of a prohibition Chicago Crime Syndicate family into one that no longer needs to kill people as part of daily bussiness. Now they can give a little back to the people from whom they have taken so much, and they will be our shining example of liberal generosity and compassion. You have chosen a very very appropriate symbol to represent your party. Take a lot, give back a little. Classic symbolism.
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PLEASE keep trying to peddle that hilarious horseshit. Truly unbelievable. Great Stuff. Uberman could not have done better satire.
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Dude... Joe K wasn't ripping off the little guy. He made his cash ripping off the elites in Europe and on Beacon Hill. And in terms of giving back... at least he didn't protect his kids from war. And I think the family's history of support for the working class can stack up against any of your "compassionate conservatives". You know, the ones who like to cut veterans benefits?
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Ok, no I know- in the case of home finances- yes it may have been deregulation- I know exactly where you are coming from. And I am just ranting somewhat about things I don't know ALL the facts on, but as I understand it, democrats were pushing for banks to have less strict lending practices- that doesnt necessarily mean deregulation. As far as I know- the regulation was for banks to adhere to less strict lending practices. I really don't know for sure who was at fault there. Basically I just look at who wants banks to fail so that they go under government control- it most definately isn't the republicans. And by the way, Alan Greenspan may have an R next to his name- that doesnt mean he is conservative. Several of the most liberal judges have an R next to their name as well. R doesnt mean shit. Story on MSNBC you say. What kind of twist do you think MSNBC wants to put on things. Maybe I have been been hearing twisted information to make the democrats look bad, and I am wrong- but my scenerio makes the most sense when you look at who are the players here- can't you agree? Why would banks who are run by proffesionals want to relax their lending practices? Haven't you ever wondered that? Didn't it seem odd that banks who should know better would go down a path that so clearly is headed to destruction? Based purely on short term gains- but with clearly long term catastrophe. Are they just stupid people running banks? Or are they being strongly "regulated" to take less proffitable paths? If you answer no other questions, please just answer that one for me. Did you honestly think this whole time that the banks made this terrible move simply because they have no forward thinking ability? Every single bank? Everyone run by a perfect moron CEO? Please at least answer that one question truthfully. Bank presidents aren't morons. At least I don't think so. What do you think?
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That's Olberman, and he is really really not funny. Jon Stewart is incredibly funny- so my opinion is not based on my bias.
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While I don't agree with my Compadre Samus about the current financial mess being a Democratic Plan, I have to ask...whose fault is it? In 2003 Bush recommended an overhaul of Housing Financing Industry. Guess who fought it?''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.'' Man oh man...guess ol' Barney didn't see that one coming, eh?
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yeah i'm pretty much in line with toadkiller (again). I'm not an american so i have no partisanship here, but fair suck of the sav, bailing out banks is not really a left wing thing to do. i thought you guys were saying the left winger had money envy. wouldn't they be happy to see the banks fail. and toad is dead right, less regulation has led to this (although i am not fully against less regulation) basically all around the world business have called for less oversight in order to compete with other countries (where they say the same). that has led to this problem. and don't pidgenhold people dude. I am somewhat leftwing (consider myself centre left) this to an american makes me a crazy left wing psyco because your whole system is to the right of the world (i'm not trying to be offensive, that is literally true). and you know what? your economy, the basition of right wing capitalism has not done as well as australia's at any point during the bush administration. you seem to interchange 'socialism' with 'communism' if socialism is working hostpitals and good schools i am a socialist.working hospitals and good schools are GOOD for the economy. they are good for the big guys because the little guys provide better labour and have more money to spend on microsoft products and ford motor cars. the right do not own the argument on the economy the left just can't explain itself very well, but the truth is that you should look at hospitals and schools as 'investment in human capital' longer lived, healthier, better educated plebs pay more taxes, and reduce the tax burden on rich people.lastly, in my experince the multigeneral rich can be more compassionate than the newly rich becasue the newly rich belive, if i can do it, everyone else is just lazy. this is partly true and partly not true. certainly though i belive in reward for effort and talent, but also in a minimum standard for all people.
toad i find it interesting that in another talk back we were 'idoits' for believing in the spaghetti monster and evil for being right wing fasists, and yet here we are. -
I know, I am kind of being a little conspiracy theorist here- I'm stretching. Kind of throwing shit on the wall and seeing if it sticks. I totally know I am theorizing here- I guess I should have been clear that I was just throwing out a theory. As a layman, what else do I have but theories. I'm no banking expert- I'm just trying to figure out what is going on. It never made any sense to me why banks would chose a root that ALL OF YOU GUYS know better than. All these years they knew that they shouldn't give loans out to high credit risk people, they knew there was a housing bubble, and they were worried that what happened in Japan years ago may very well happen here. Yet somehow, every single bank acted incredibly stupid all at once all at the same time. Don't tell me there wasn't government control here. They weren't be deregulated, if they were- they would have followed the smartest lending practice with that freedom. They must have been pushed without choice into stupid lending practices- all at once. Democrats were of the belief that everyone should have a home, and now everybody does. I don't believe that when they were in the minority democrats were incapable of getting anything done ever. Perhaps this was not a huge partisan issue, and they were able to get some republican representatives on their side on that one. Is this totally impossible? It seems quite possible to me- Again I am mostly theorizing. I don't think republicans would want this situation so they wouldnt push for it.
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You are correct, sir.The left worships equality. The right worships Equal Opportunity. The left will shove equality down our throats no matter what. And we see the results of that daily.
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sure i got your question. it is about competition and risk management. waren buffets says that the economy is run on 'fear and greed' not karl marx, waren buffet. he (the oracle of capitalism and a person i greatly admire) has been criticizing the banks for some time. i wouldn't say these ceos are idoits, but it is quite common for them to be ego manics and to have bad risk profiles. one reason for this is they often get as the major part of their pay packet options. they only get paid if the banks profits go up. so for them the risk of the bank failing is out of whack with the reward of it going up. even a slight share price gain can mean a lot of money with options. further more we have been in an environment of take overs. people don't want their bank taken over. the best way to avoid this is have big profits. the best way to do that is to take risks. your housing market was doing well for a while there. this created a bit of a feeding frenzy for customers. the risks are usually hedged but in really complex almost ununderstanble ways. this means that not everyone (or even anyone) fully understood the hedgeing. a big bank might buy or sell a small homeloan book, and the contract may be so complex that no one understands who is holding the risk. when one bank goes under the shit hits the fan. the short answer is, complex contrancts that no one understands, people intentionally kidding themself, the motives of the ceos being out of wack with the share holders (this is called an agency problem). banks protecting themselves against take overs, and simple greed. none of these are problems when the market is going up. when it turns however.....
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Amazing. Use Google Blog Search and search "Barney Frank" and "Freddie Mac" and you get Blue Deamons talking point almost word for word, dozens of times over. That must be the big Right-Wing Talk Radio Deflection Tactic for today. BARNEY FRANK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ECONOMIC CRISIS!! Can Chuck Schumer be far behind? =========== Let me ask you guys: who's the lawmaker who authored the amendment that prevented the federal government from regulating finacial derivatives? Why don't you go reasearch that one and then let me know what that man thinks about the average American's troubles.
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Yeah you are right, I mixed Socialism and Communism too closely- I know there remains a huge difference. I just don't even want to head in that direction. No I know we are more right wing than the rest of the world- in fact earlier I was defending that point- where one guy said China was right wing. Without knowing more, I am hugely in favor of social medecine- this is one area where I depart from conservativism. I agree with you there- I agree with you on education as well. It just doesn't make any sense to me why less regulation in the banking world led to this problem. Do bank presidents normally need to be told by the government how to run a bank? And as soon as the government stops telling bank presidents how to run banks- they all simultaneously act like morons and abandon their time honored lending practices in the face of a well known immenent housing bubble problem? Tell me if that is what really happened. Are you telling me that the government is run by geniuses and that banks are the ones run by incompentant morons- I always thought it was the other way around.
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so yeah, these guys (or me) dont know better. it sounds simple as a sound bite (have less risky customers) but in reality these are vastly complex contracts (at the end of the day the ceos do know that they are risky though, but don't necessarily fully understand the contracts, most of which are based on exotic options - which incidentally can not always be accurately valued)also some of these guys have strange risk profiles. let me illustrate. look at haliburton or endless other. you are talking about multi millionaires (sometimes hundreds of millions or billions - look at conrad black) who do illigal things, risk a decade in jail in order to increase thier wealth by like one percent. would you do that. risk ten years in jail to increase your wealth by ten percent. you could do that by robbing a bank. many of them are like that, but they only get caught when something goes wrong and the administrators come in. that is a strange risk profile, yes these are the people who run the banks.
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I've never even watched Olberman though I know who he is.
Uberman made some hilarious satirical posts on a quite a few AICN topics.
I would also advise people to dig a little deeper before pontificating about how the current chaos came about.
It's complex sure, but it's not just a simple housing & credit bubble with defaulting loans to blame.
Here is a prescient article involving one Warren Buffet from 2003! Warning about one of key aspects of the meltdown. Derivatives. He calls them time bombs and "financial weapons of mass destruction" that could harm not only their buyers and sellers, but the whole economic system.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2817995.stm
And here are the yearly profits for AIG which, you will notice, were more than healthy enough for extraordinary lucrative bonuses and payments to the CEO and many of the traders in AIG not so long ago.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/09/17/business/17aig-graf01.jpg
Lastly if it the Chaos wasn't due in large part to irresponsible Deregulation WHY is everyone now calling for more Regulation ? -
no i'm deffinatly not saying that govt is smarter than banks or that they should run them. I am saying that where we don't have laws and consequences in some cases people will do the wrong thing and cheat. we can agree that you shouldn't a hundred ks an hour in a school zone but unless someone says don't do it some people will. if you don't punish people they will still do it when no one is looking. basically you don't want to fully regulate it, but you do want some regulation. without it game theory says people will cheat. one simple reason for this is agency costs. you need laws that say ceos have to look after share holders, or some of them will not. in fact in oz some of the regulations are weaker and some stronger (we don't have specific percentage of funds that a bank must keep and not lend out you guys do). basically were people are competing with each other, they will not always make the right decision, one of many reasons being as buffet says 'fear and greed'. even people who should know better do this.
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Notice the quotation marks around the paragraph? That is not my talking point. That was an article on Barney Frank telling us to relax and fighting against the tightening of regulations.
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You did a good job fighting the good fight on these political threads so pat yourself on the back.And as for reeducating the McKain Kool Aid drinkers, one is better off explaining the End of Evangelion to casual Otakus (or even worse; MGS2's storyline to an average gamer.)than to reason with the NeoCons their pedestrian minds are made up.Alot of Hispanics are backing McCain claiming that he has done alot for them.I doubt he did much of anything for anyone.Log Cabininites are a wacky lot, why would anyone support a party that is against their sexual orientation? Then there's Black Conservatives like that jissssmm..er, I meant Chrssssmm who is as welcomed as a "turd in a swimming pool".Some people just need to belong I guess.
Once again good job. Anyway what's new in the asian flick scene? -
Sep 18, 2008 5:50:01 PM CDT
Troopergate investigation postponed till after the Election?
by stalkeye
Hmmmm, wonder who made that call?
*Sarcasm intended* -
Frankly I'm surprised nobody seems to have picked up on this yet as there can be no better description of what has occured this week.
And Banks are run by people. They are neither superhuman nor dribbling trolls. Some WERE idiots. Some were brilliant. Some were greedy. Some were carefull. Some unlucky.
But many simply didn't want to ask too many hard questions when the profits were flooding in from shaky (bordering on fraudulent) financial products that brought massive returns for (seemingly) little risk. (Yes the like of Standard and Poors and other credit evaluators appeared to be asleep at the wheel too. That will also have to change) -
and i know it's freddie mac, but in oz no one has heard of a)bernie mac or b)freddie mac, and one of my mates the other day asked me about 'the collapse of bernie mac'. which caused a long conversation about the difference
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You still didn't answer my question:
What would McCain or Palin have to do for you to throw up your hands and go, "Christ on a bike, I'd rather see Obama in there than either of those two back-stabbers."
Do NOT attempt to turn it around on me again - When you answer my question, I'll answer yours.
And, in case you weren't paying attention, I DID list several Demos/Liberals that had gone Too Damn Far - I am NO hypocrite. But when you try that old Rovian "Turn-It-Back-On-Them" stunt, instead of answering the question, I detect a distinct waft of Republican Playbook Bullshit coming from your direction...
Now, as for your truly otherworldly claim that the DEMOCRATS engineered the collapse of Fannie Mae, Lehman Brothers, Freddie Mac, etc, etc - You actually think that the Democrats WANT the biggest American financial mess in 80 years to land in THEIR laps? That the DEMOCRATS put together a brilliantly subversive plot, under the watchful eyes of the FTC, the Republican Congress and the most powerful, always-searching-for-a-loophole banking and mortgage lobbyists and lawyers on the planet, to STRIP the banking industry of any meaningful regulatory watchdog programs, in order to allow the industry to make insanely risky loans in the hopes of windfall profits - all so that they could throw thousands of Americans OUT of their homes and the DEMOCRATIC PARTY could take the BLAME for it?
I must now ask, seriously - are you insane? -
What did you mean when you said that you don't know better? Are you in banking? Well you made a good point and probably helped illuminate a weird situation that I have been having a hard time trying to understand. I am just trying to suggest possible explanations here, and it is funny how calling republicans racist nazis is considered a simple observation here, but all hell breaks loose when I suggest that democrats may be to blame for the current housing crisis. As if that is far more inflamatory and wreckless. Perhaps one or two bank presidents took a rediculous risk, but ALL Of them? come on. And I don't buy into your analogy of 100 kph regulation in a school zone- these are not just everyday citizens- they are bank presidents- and I don't seem them all at once actively making a choice that likely ends in their self distruction. Who are these people? Sociopaths? I am glad that you offered me an explanation, I just don't really see it making sense yet. Perhaps you are right- bank presidents are all very strange people- I just don't think so.
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people do know about it and that article is legendary. it is still trying to be determined what to do about it because there are many ways to skin a cat, if you got rid of options it would be still possible to use them because there are ways of creating them. we keep them because the possibility of arbitrage makes our markets more efficient. for example. (lets use forward contracts with are similar to options) you can get a forward contract to sell a share at a certain price at a certain time (or for wheat or gold, something useful for farmers and jewlers who want to lock in their costs and profits in order to get loans) alternativly instead of getting the contract you could borrow money from the bank and buy the share now. the way these things are valued the two costs (including the interest) should be roughly equal, otherwise there is arbitrage. this is a simple example but the point is that there are complex ways of making options, even when no option for that thing exists.
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And I'm certainly no Economic expert and you are clearly better informed on the positive aspect of options and the permutations thereof.
If I am not getting woefully out of my depth (and I could well be) I think one of the reasons that Banks and others favoured options rather than simple borrowing was to do with keeping such things off the balance sheets as it were, and some Legal Technicalities to do with Banks and options that meant creating seperate entities for them ???? Not too sure about this BTW And I'd be glad to be corrected
But if I might hazzard a guess something IS going to be done very soon. Once the bones of the vulnerable Banks have been picked clean other targets might just hove into view. -
i've been job hunting, i just finished a double degree in economics and commerce, majoring in finance. they are not all stupid, but the banks are massively interlinked so if one goes down the shit hits the fan. that is why your govt is bailing them out, because it is like a house of cards, and they are trying to quantinte the problem. maybe in person i could explain it better, sometimes this medium makes it hard. i did an experimental economic course last semester. one of the main criticisms that politicians have of experimental design in economics is they say 'sure that is what STUDENTS or whoever would do, but PROFFESSIONALS wouldn't do that' consequently a lot of testing goes into that very question and they find that professionals usually do just as poor as everyone else. when you tell them what they should have been doing they slap thier foreheads. I agree it is strange, but these guys make the same mistakes as everyone else. plus many of them have weird personality types and it would not surpries me that, like with many jobs you need that personality to rise to the top. some are idoits with their risk taking, and these are big wigs. wiki any of the following people: conrad black, rodney adler, allan bond, christopher skase the list is huge. like i say if you were worth a billion, would you risk ten years in jail for ten million? that is a strange risk profile and it is common amoung these guys.
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with whats happened in the last week - and mccain wants to have a commission look into it - like the 9/11 one which took years - theres no time - like it or not, all this shit going on with the banks is directly the result of republican policy - they divert your attention with talk about god, family, babies, guns and small towns - while at the same time their fucking us all over economically - this massive fuck up will effect everything from school loans for kids that want to go to college to the price of a gallon of milk - all because some republicans in congress thought the best way for the markets to right themselves would be to lift all regualtion and turn a blind eye - way to go GOP - you stupid short sighted fucks
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i think you are pretty much spot on with that last post. one thing that is happening is they are changing the accounting practice so the options stuff come on balance sheet. this is hard because 'american options' (they are not american this is just the name for a type of option, the other major one being 'european') are basically impossible to value. some of it is to do with making things so convulted that no one knows how they work, alowing people to get away with stuff. the other thing is that ceo now get as part of their pay packet to encourage them to do well. problem is this gives and incentive to the ceo to fiddle the books in a million different wierd ways.
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"I wold not vote a man back in if he completely turned on me. If McCain appoints an activist juddge he has shown me that he's forgetting his party. If he turns to the left, he won't get my vote again."
Now, a few years ago John McCain was not such a hard-liner on topics like abortion, creationism and regulation. Thses "moderate" stances helped him build a base among American voters as a whole, not just republicans.
Then, when the primary races started getting hairy, McCain moved to the Far Right, leaving behind thousands of disillusioned voters that had been hoping for a centrist GOP candidate.
So...are you saying....that you will continue to trust and support John McCain, that's it's okay if he betrays THEM....as long as he doesn't betray YOU?
Please, define an "activist" judge? Is that a judge who isn't an activist as long as he makes changes only to laws that YOU don't like? Or would that include "activist" judges from the past, you know, dirty commies that enacted un-American stuff like the Equal Rights Act and allowing women to vote? -
No I am not insane, and I was just suggesting that possiblity. You're catching me at a time when I am a little spooked by what has just happened- we have made a major socialist move- we are RIGHT NOW a much more socialist country. I am simply speculating that perhaps this wasn't an accident, and I am trying to figure out how that could have been. It's a lazy theory that I threw out there. But we are now more socialist than we were a couple months ago. Democrats are the ones who would want that to happen. To you that may be just fine, and so it doesnt scare you. Again, I was not seriously saying that it did for sure happen, I was just throwing it out there. This is not Frontline, this is an aintitcoolnews forum. If such speculation is so horrible even here- then let us never wonder anything again. Yes it is conceivable that I would vote for Obama. I have said that several times before on this forum. Ok you are asking me to dig into my imagination and come up with a scenerio in which I would change my mind to Obama, let me think... OK I have one. If she turned out to be a member of the corruption which she supposedly is out to fight against- that would change my mind on her totally. And I might (maybe) go Obama. If she turned out to have connections to racist groups, then maybe I would go for Obama who is connected to racist groups against my race- although I don't know why that would be better. This is a tough one, I am floored by what keeps me turning back away from Obama. Once in a while I am tempted to vote for him, and then I always come back to stuff like Jeremiah Wright. I gotta say- that controversy really did a number on me. Part of me wants to vote for him JUST because he is black- I know how you guys feel. I just want to see an underdog story of a good african american man who beat all the odds and made it to the white house, and then showed us how much better things can be if the president doesn't come from the same old stale stock- but then I remember that some of his friends might actually hate my guts. And I go, let's just wait for Michael Steele on this one. I don't know, was that a good enough answer? Can you then answer my question.
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"Enact" = "Upheld".
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what did he say that wasnt true? - the fact that he said "god damn america" is what angered people - which i can see - but everything he said, every historical point and reason as to why we are in the state we are in is (however inflamatory to some) true
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I thought of a much better reason I would go Obama. If someone showed me unarguable proof that the economy does better under democrats than under republicans- then I will vote for Obama. These last 8 years don't count because 6 of those last 8 years were quite prosperous for one thing- and we were under very unusual economic situations. I highly doubt democrats would have steered us any better than the republicans did in this situation. And sure Clinton saw us through a very good economy. The economy was good because of the people making it happen- not clinton, how do I know it wouldn't have been even better under a republican. It's very hard to pinpoint which is better. So I kind of have to rely on which economic philosophy holds the most water. Based on debates with between Barack and Hilary, I saw proof that Barack Obama is not concerned with the economy- Proof. Recently Obama has said that he changed his mind that he will keep the capitol gains tax and the taxes on the rich down until the recession is over- this is tantamount to an admission that his higher capitol gains tax and taxes on the rich are not good for the economy. Admittedly when he said that, I felt more likely to vote for him, even though he seemed to be admitting the economic flaw of his own tax plan- but at least he was promising not to implement his tax plan until things are better. I look at this as proof yet again that democrats don't care about the economy.
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Can't see that lasting much longer TBH. Hiding is not an option.
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on jews not believing in jesus as their savior - why isnt that news?
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...that got us here now - clinton signed it because it was veto proof - he had to - proposed and voted by 2/3 majority (republican) in favor of this "Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999" - Also known as "Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act" it helped unleash unbridled banker's greed that has caused our current economy to fail so badly - republican law makers and the banking industry have been wanting to deregulate banks since the early 1980s
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You think that that was SOCIALISM?
Allow me to disavow you of that notion.
What we have here, is a bunch of filthy rich, greedy, unethical sonsabitches that get caught with their hands, feet and dicks in the cookie jar, drop it AND break it into a million pieces....and their buddies in Washington, ANOTHER bunch of filthy rich, greedy, unethical sonsabitches ride to the rescue, pick 'em up, dust 'em off and tell them "Don't worry about it. We got 400 million suckers out there that we'll just dump this on them. Don't worry your heads a whit there, boys. Get back to mindin' our portfolios. AND, just for the hell of it, we'll blame it all on the guys that tried to STOP you! Ain't that a kick in the ass? I ask you, Is This A great Country Or What?!"
That is nothing more than old-fashioned POLITICS - World-Spanning Economic Theories don't even come near it.
Now, as to your question: Are you equating approximately .000000000000000001% of the Islamic faith with Barack Obama? Do you still buy the hatespeech bullshit that he is some sort of Al Queda Manchurian Candidate, and he will somehow "hand this country over" to a DIFFERENT Fanatical Religious Sect That Wants To Kill Everybody That Doesn't Agree With Them (Instead of the one we have NOW) as soon as he gets his hands on the keys? Aye Yai Yai.....
What would Obama have to do for me to totally reject him? Well, for starters,he'd have to not like Space Ghost Coast To Coast. I fucking LOVE that show. And Mythbusters, too.
But, he'd have to do something totally craven, like re-embrace Jeremiah Wright if it looked liked it would get him some crucial votes. If things get really close as the election draws near, he'd have to announce that he'll personally pardon or commute the sentences of every black man imprisoned in the United States if it will get them out and to the voting booths in time. He'd have to walk up to the microphone at a rally a few days before the election and scream. "IT'S PAYBACK TIME, WHITEY!!!" He'd have to be caught on FBI digital tape telling the Academy of Motion Picture Arts And Sciences "Spike Lee wins it ALL this year, or you can forget about Michael Moore getting his Green card renewed." He'd have to go on record as saying, "You know something? Dick Cheney's got more soul in his pinky toe than Aretha Franklin ever DREAMED of!" He'd have to start eating bag salads from Shop'n'Save.
And Biden? he'd just have to plagiarize a speech from somebody like Phil Spector or something.
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seriously! he spent 6 years in solitary confinement in a communist prison. dude just waiting for someone to pull out the red queen. ok sorry, but seriously, his life is suspiciously like that movie (only russia isn't communist anymore and china hardly is too)
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WHAT? No I wasnt talking about Muslims, I was talking about Trinity United Church or whatever. You know, where they listen to that guy screaming at the top of his lungs about White US of KKK A. No I wasnt talking about him being a muslim- I dont know if he is a muslim and I dont really have any real reason to think so- that is just stupid speculation as far as I am concerned- no proof on that, and I will only respond to proof in that case.
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Well at least you and I agree on Space Ghost and Mythbusters- see, we can build bridges- I like you better already. We just disagree a bit on some philosophy, and relatively not by much.
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is if he hooked up with a white woman. Don't get uppity on me now!
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"What the hell does "no energy reserves" have to do with Howard Dean's fitness to be president or anything else?"The same as all the claims that Palin isn't worthy or experienced. In other words -- Absolutely nothing.But since you (as in "your side") mentioned it, shouldn't an unqualified person in charge of phenomenal natural resources be much more worthy to lead than an equally unqualified person in charge of nil resources? (BTW, I believe Governors are way more worthy to run for President, which means Dean is more experienced and tenured than Obama bin Biden and McCain combined).If you were for Dean, then you should be for Palin, where worthiness to run is concerned. Yes, I agree that leading is leading. Welcome to the conversation!
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So basically when it comes to Barack Obama, the only way you would turn against him is if he stopped putting up a really good persona. How hard is it to pretend to be someone you're not? I honestly don't think we are seeing the true Barack Obama here, why would he EVER act any differently than he is now? Who cares how he is acting now? I don't care how McCain or Palin or Biden is acting now- they ALL have to put on a good show now- let me see what kind of show they were putting on BEFORE they were in the spotlight. Are you so convinced by ACTING that you believe people are who they are pretending to be? Let me clue you in, I'm sure I don't have to, but this will make my point. Heath Ledger was not a homicidal sociopath obsessed with sowing chaos in the world- he was an actor. If you want to know who Heath Ledger was, you don't take notes on his performance in Dark Knight- you look at how he was behaving in his day to day life before he got that job. Same with Obama. You shouldn't even really care what he does NOW. He was even reluctant to turn away from his pastor EVEN when the spotlight was on him- that is how hard it was for him. Do you honestly look at his behaviour now as a window into his mind? Please.
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I've just never caught it before.
Though come to think of it I'm fairly sure there was an early Harvey Birdamn Ep with Space Ghost or something... -
and worked his way up in the primaries through numerous debates, interviews and a clear presentation of his plans and positions.
Palin? Interviews with People, Gibson and Hannity. And wearing a hole through the script she repeats daily. And she crumbles in even a pre-screened townhall Q&A.
Nope. No comparison. -
Palin leaves in her wake. Too many to count. No comparison.
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is if he hooked up with a white woman or lived in a gated community. Oh, wait...! Don't get uppity on me now!
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Sep 18, 2008 7:34:21 PM CDT
EVEN KAZUO KAWASAKI, THE DESIGNER OF PALIN'S GLASSES
by bringingsexyback
prefers Obama. They even named a city in Japan after him.
No comparison. -
The MSM leaves in her wake. Too many to count. No comparison.
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Spaceghost is much better than either of those. But then again, I might be insane.
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Is if he claimed God sent Hitler to hunt Jews and cause the Holocaust, claim Katrina was a punishment sent by God on an "immoral" New Orleans or say the Catholicism was a "Great Whore". Oh, wait...! don't get batshit insane on me now!
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I'd heard of it sure, just not enough clearly.
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Saul AlinskiSaul AlinskiSaul AlinskiSaul AlinskiYou do realize that either way, you guys win, right? McCain certainly is McSame. He's a RINO. You guys win either way.Conservatives secretly hope that Matt Damon is right.
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I don't buy the "He went to THAT church, so he can't be trusted" hogflap.
I went to a Catholic church and grade school (Until I was "asked to leave", around the 6th grade), and I neither hate all other Catholics as a result, nor do I expect to be branded as a Catholic for the rest of my life.
(Which is not to say that the guys running that church weren't a gaggle of pointy-headed bigots themselves - I was thrown out for DISAGREEING with them, in front of classrooms full of students and in front of churchgoers on Sunday mornings.)
Obama's TIMING at leaving Wright's church was unfortunate, as it looked entirely politically motivated. As opposed to only partially, which I believe to be the case. I am of the opinion that Obama was already getting more than a bit fed up with Wright's more extreme antics, which of course were the only ones that Fox News and the like chose to exclusively focus on, as opposed to the church's known history of financial and other aid to poor Chicagoans. -
i was only joking
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Samus Aran, "Half-Baked-Goggle-Box-Do-Gooder"Yabbut, he DID turn on his pastor.For some reason I feel like I'm taking "the bite." Am I?Either way, as an agnostic, I'd rather invest in someone that speaks in tongues so long as it doesn't translate into a proclamation of "God Damn America" that went unheard of for more than 20-years.
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Okay, so now I recognize you as a TB handle instead of a concept. Sorry for my previous posts.Anyway, "Obama's TIMING at leaving Wright's church was unfortunate, as it looked entirely politically motivated."Please explain what action by Obama was not politically motivated?
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Sep 18, 2008 7:56:11 PM CDT
FISH - WHAT TRAIL OF LIES HAS THE MSM LEFT IN HER WAKE?
by bringingsexyback
List please.
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I'm glad that you agree that it at least looked politcally motivated. I can't say 100% for sure what was the cause. But I do have common sense, and although common sense might not be how you rule in a court of law, common sense is what I rely on when choosing a president. Common sense tells me that looks extremely fishy- especially when you match it up against all the other stories of anger and connections of bigotry that surround Obama, and if you don't mind, I will tell those stories. Comparing your adolescent attendance to Catholic Church (which is not an extremist church) to Barack's adult until recently attendance to that clearly extreme church- is rediculous. One example shows no real personal connection, the other shows a very deep connection. When you are talking about the good that the church did, I have no doubt that they did much good for other black people- Black people are the ONLY people that church cares about. Of course they helped them. Tell me, did they help poor white people in Chicago as well? If you provide me any proof that they did to any significant degree, I am prepared to change my mind on them. However I am not even going to waste my time looking into it, because my common sense tells me they don't give a damn about poor white people in Chicago. I never said that trinity church doesnt care about the poor, just not all poor. If you discovered a church that specifically only helped white poor people and specifically avoided helping black poor people- you would call that church racist too. Anyway, Obama could be totally against everything that we americans believe that church to be about. But it sure doesn't look good.
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"Conservatives secretly hope that Matt Damon is right." If you are talking about his fear that McCain will die and Palin will be Prez. That is no secret- We ALL can't wait. Let it be heard. I want a true blue (or red as it is nowadays) conservative in the white house. McCain is just the catalyst we have to deal with to raise up Palin, once he is out of the picture- let the drilling begin!
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And yes, I know that Alaska drilling in ANWR will only make a small difference- it's a hell of a lot closer to our goal than making sure our tires have the correct pressure.
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You two are contemptible.
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I know you were kidding. I don't get all worked up like other people here. And anyways, you can say whatever you want about McCain- I'll join in. But if you talk shit about Sarah, it'll sound like bullshit to my ears unless you have some real concrete stuff. McCain, fair game- He's a womanizing, low in his class, elitist, BORING, bad on the economy, 95% agreeing with Bush (as if that is so bad, heh), Almost dead hack who thinks that middle class is anyone making less than 5 million. Do you guys have anything to add? I'll throw it on the pile. You will not find me denying any of this anywhere on this thread. But Palin, I like her. I hope she's as good as she seems to be. I know I want a president who understands how I feel every month trying to make sure I can make my mortgage payment. Don't trash on her unless you know for sure please.
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I've tried to not make personal attacks here. But this time I have to. You sound like a pussy. And I base that on all your previous comments as well. I'm serious here. Something tells me that if you have a wife or girlfriend- you completely let her tell you when you can go to the bathroom, when you can watch tv, when you can go to sleep. Act like a man.
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Spread the word indeed!http://tinyurl.com/47yl3dHere's hoping the green(!) ring is passed onto a worthy recipient!
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As if your opinion counts for anything.
I may support Obama, but anyone who wishes McCain dead - as you and Immortal Fish, self-proclaimed Conservatives even, just did - you should know your opinion is automatically shit on arrival.
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All these people care about is whether or not people have an R or a D next to their names during interviews. R they Hate, D they love. Bush acted a lot like a democrat when it came to spending, but they hated him anyway, from the first day he took office, and nothing he ever did made them hate him anymore than that. McCain in many ways is more left of Hilary Clinton- You'd think they would feel very comfortable with this race. But it isn't about policy, all they care is if their president technically can be called a democrat or a republican. In theory they should still feel very happy then with Joe Lieberman, he is a DINO, and that's all cool with them- They wanted him to be VP. Again, not about policy.
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Pretty cool. I want to see "Palin, Romney", or "Palin, Steele"
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Do female Barracudas scream SEXISM! if any aspect of their fitness to lead is brought up ?
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Keep on with the viral marketing, as if your opinion counts for anything too.We wish McCain dead? We wish him dead no more than you and your people do. In fact, we celebrate life. Bristol Palin, perchance? It's a shame you do not.
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I wonder who Palin's VP will be. Romney? Oh man, these are going to be the best 4 years EVER!!!
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Now that's "Change" I can believe in!
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My post looks really funny coming immediately after yours Fish, We totally look like we cannot stay on the same page.
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I'm not kidding- that is going to be the ticket someday- you just wait and see. Unless somehow the media succeeds in destroying her. And they will hate Steele too- they better get started trying to destroy him before he becomes an upstart. I can already hear the liberals taking issue with the fact that his sister was married to Mike Tyson.
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BringingSexyBack, "anyone who wishes McCain dead"So now by acknowledging opposition opinion, we SHARE said opinion?Wow.
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You and Samus are alone in wishing McCain dead. You'd like to believe others share your beliefs, but you won't find another post here to back that up. But that's your MO - never a fact to back up anything you say.
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*crickets chirruping*
tumbleweed rolls by........@...
in the distance a dog howls and a bell clangs mournfully....
Palin finally *coughs* clears her throat.. and.. "Guys an Gals that sure looks like a mighty big mess that needs a fixin! I'm a reformer and I'm gonna go to Washington and CHANGE everything! So Remember to VOTE REPUBLICAN in November!"
Silence.. *crickets chirruping* Tens of Millions of Voters realise the the Economy is definitely one of those things they DON'T wan't a folksy Hockey Mom in charge of in a time of unparalelled chaos. -
"But since you (as in "your side") mentioned it, shouldn't an unqualified person in charge of phenomenal natural resources be much more worthy to lead than an equally unqualified person in charge of nil resources?"
No. This is a total non-sequitur. The only thing likely to impress me about any leader is their ability to lead with fairness, justice, and reason. The fact that one person is "in charge" of oil while another is not is irrelevant. And of course Palin isn't any more "in charge" of Alaska's oil than the governor of Arizona is in charge of the Grand Canyon. Most of that oil is taken from is Federal. Palin has precious little to say about any of it, other than to decide how much to tax the oil companies.
Dean served as governor for more than 10 years, 6 times longer than Palin's paltry experience. He's also an MD, a profession which puts slightly greater demands on a person than being a small-town TV sportscaster. But the real thing that separates them is this: Dean isn't an ignorant, insular creationism-spouting religious fanatic. He's not a proudly card-carrying member of the cult of ignorance that promises to return us all to medieval times. -
Don't even try to talk to BSB like a normal person- he is daffy and half unghinged. He explodes from my experience at almost everything. You can only talk to him in jokes. Constant joking is all that calms him down.
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I'll agree with that.
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Sep 18, 2008 8:51:51 PM CDT
So...Obama is going to fix the economic situation by raising tax
by banzai rootskibango
...really?
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And who do we want in charge of the economy? A lawyer who wants to experiment with taxes even though everyone who knows better tells him it will decrease revenues?
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The party of punitive capital punishment, unprovoked and unplanned war, and guns for everyone... you think a celebration of life is forcing someone you've never met to bear a child that you will then consider to be a parasite on society immediately after being born? Is this like how conservatives celebrate freedom by opposing organizations dedicated to civil liberty and profiting off an incarceration rate higher than communist China? Honestly, "fuck you" isn't a strong enough reply. DGDB can take his moral high ground, I'll "celebrate life" by hoping that the living are spared having to share their time on the planet with unbelievable assholes like yourselves.
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You're right, Howard Dean is not a religious fanatic- in fact it seems that he doesn't value religion AT ALL. And of course this is the pattern of the democrat party- an image that they try desperately to ditch because they know it hurts them. And so they pretend to be religious in many situations. But most people know better, both within and outside of the democrat party. It is a farce to say that democrats have any religious structure within their membership. Every liberal that has spoken up during this discussion has only proved that pattern- a vile seathing hatred exists within almost all of you towards people of any religion and most clearly towards christians. It is the last acceptable prejudice and form of hatred, and you wear it proudly. You argue that it is ok to hate people who have a choice on who they choose to be. So long as they have an alternate option, it is ok to hate and discriminate against them. I find liberals to be the LEAST tolerant of people different than them. Christians seem to have given liberals an oportunity to fill a great internal need to hate someone- anyone, and to discriminate against those people solely on general prejudices. The vile venom that has been spoken against christians on this thread alone- let alone on tv EVERY day, is commonplace and quite acceptable. You act as if a person's personal religious convictions is so much easier to shed then the dark skin of an african american, and because of that, Christians can be hated. Don't lecture conservatives about hate. We don't generally hate anybody. Who do hate?
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And I know McCain himself has already admitted the Economy is an area where he feels least comfortable and lacking in expertise.
And finally I know that Obama and Biden have been campaiging on the Economy constantly.
McCain & Palin have just arrived at this Party even though it's been the Number 1 issue by a huge margin for months if not years. They were busy talking about trivial bullshit like lipstick just as Wall Street tumbled.
Argue with Obamas Poicy all you wish. But he has one. McCain & Palin are floundering. Trying to hoof it on an Economic Policy that seems to be a bad rerun of Bush's. Trying to blame everyone but the Republicans. And all the while seemingly unaware that Blame has a habit of falling squarely on whoever the Voter, not the Politician, thinks deserves it most.
McCain & Palin are Republicans. Period.
Unless they change to Independent or Bull Moose Party or Whig or Libertarian they will appear on that ballot as Republican. That's the simple fact of the matter.
And when people and families jobs, homes and future are at stake they tend not to listen to elaborate justifications or folksy rhetoric.
They tend to punish those in power by not voting for them again.
McCain & Palin wouldn't keep trying so desperately to copy Obamas message of CHANGE if they thought it was a losing strategy. -
Just because Obama finally has presented an economic policy doesn't mean it is a good one- and it doesn't look to be one. And John McCain does have an interesting economic plan that I am right now interested in- Ihave heard that he is thinking of bringing Meg Whitman into his cabinet as his economic advisor. As they say on Rush Limbaugh- "Simply Brilliant". I also understand Mitt Romney will be coming too- Bonus. Tell me, who is going to be advising Obama that is more AWESOME than Meg Whitman? Who? WHO?!?!
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Sep 18, 2008 9:30:58 PM CDT
Samus - BSB could wipe the floor with you if he wanted to
by toadkillerdog
When he drops the joking you better beleive he can bring the pain. You on the other hand - are just a child.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:32:29 PM CDT
I do NOT wish for John McCain to die in office!
by half-baked-goggle-box-do-gooder
I merely EXPECT him to die in office,
It's a Tough Job.... -
Last night: "I'm not a bussiness expert. I'm just trying to understand it the best I can with my laymen mind. I don't think it is that complicated though."
Maybe McCain is getting his economic advice from Samus. -
Yeah he can bring the pain- I've already experienced it. He brings pain in the form of getting extremely pissed off and offended by ANY remark. The first time he brought the pain it was like trying to quiet down a screaming baby. Believe me I know, I had a screaming baby recently- it was very similar to dealing with BSB. Not fun. Don't worry, I totally know what you are talking about. My Grandfather who fought in the Finnish-Rusian war once said that it was like torture trying to argue with an idiot. Believe me, I know exactly where you are coming from KillerDog, but thanks for the warning anyway.
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Unfortunately I was laughing VERY hard indeed!
Why not bring O'Reilly in as an Economic advisor too ?
Whitman was SO AWESOME McCain chose the Hockey Mom over her for VEEP. EBay is a nice enough record and company though and might bring McCain into the 21st Century if she shows him what it is.
Yeah you're right Obama only has some guy called Warren Buffet to advise him.. poor sap, what does he know....
DON'T make me requote the fact that he saw this clusterfuck coming as far back as 2003 and his current ranking on Forbes compared to Romney or Whitman Samus.
It would be demeaning for both of us. -
"Maybe McCain is getting his economic advice from Samus." Is this the floor wiping you were mentioning?
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I'm only offended that Samus believes, in a traitorous way, that 9/11 was a good and beneficial thing.
Otherwise his opinions are of no import. -
If he gets Buffet, maybe I will support him. But I could have sworn I saw Buffet on a list of potential advisors for McCain as well.
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Yeah I did see Warren Buffet as a potential economic advisor for McCain.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:46:43 PM CDT
Samus - I have been on this site a tads bit longer than you
by toadkillerdog
Unless you have been here under a different name that is. I know BSB jokes quite a bit. But I have seen him on occassion, drop the joking persona, and display serious intellectual chops. So, yes, he could destroy you if he wanted to - he is just playing with you right now. The thing is, with the exception of chipps and Half Baked, none of us regulars have really brought our A games because the level of discorse has not merited doing so. Please step up your game Samus - then we can rock and roll. Otherwise, it is just jokes and insults.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:46:49 PM CDT
I do NOT wish for Sarah palin to get attacked...
by half-baked-goggle-box-do-gooder
....ravaged and devoured by a wolf!
I'm just a big fan of karma, that's all. -
Yeah, a lot of Democrats don't much care about religion. The difference is, once in office they don't systematically work to marginalize religious people. They don't try to mandate the teaching of evolution in Sunday school. That's the way it's supposed to be in this country. Be religious if you want to, run for office, but if you win, remember you're serving a bunch of people with very different beliefs, and don't try to institutionalize your particular set of beliefs in the law.I fear Palin and the corrosive effect she's already having on rational thought and truth-speaking in this country. Straight-talker McCain says Palin "knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America.". What an utterly contemptible lie. He might as well have called her a Nobel laureate in physics. Palin, for her part, believes dinosaurs were sent to Earth to be defeated by cavemen and turned into fuel for snowmobiles. I do hate liars, and these two have lied so much they're lying about their lies. Do I fear the implications of these simpletons being in charge of our education, science, and energy policies? Oh yes, I do. They are practically cartoon characters.And Palin, do you delude yourself to think of her as free of hatred? Have you listened to the way she talks about Obama? That harridan hates anyone who ever crossed her.McCain? Bush? How many Republicans are pretending to be religious too, knowing they have to please hordes of churchgoers with their piety? I bet it's just as many as among Democrats. Yeah, I want a secular government, and I fear the alternative. Is that hatred?Never once have I argued that it's okay to hate anyone, or that I wear my hatred proudly. That's purely your twisted interpretation. Your posts are getting uglier all the time.
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You are exactly like a drive by shooter. I see how democrats act now. Every once in a while here you force me to defend that 911 thing again. Well the easy thing for me to do is copy and paste the last post I made where I defended myself against your slander... Here we go again...
Dude, calm down . Please. I think about Israel maybe once a month. I've thought about Benjamin Netenyahu maybe 5 times in my entire life. How can he possibly be my hero. I was responding way back then to an article you wanted me to read. I got the impression you were jewish, so I spoke well of Benjamin Netenyahu, which I sincerly had a positive image of him. Somehow you got offended- I was suprised you were offended. I had never heard of the April statement he made, and made that clear to you, and yet you maintained offense. Your mind is like an open wound. You touch it with anything and you go berserk.
You have no clue how little I care about this issue which you think is so important to me.
It doesn't suprise me then how easily Netenyahu's statement offended you. I don't think you even are actually offended. You sound like someone who seems to be trying to pretend like he really cares about 911, and you are struggling to act like someone who cares. What Benjamin Netenyahu, the former Prime Minister of Israel, said was that 911 had created more support for Israels cause against terrorism, and that this was a positive side effect. That may simply be a fact that he is acknowledging. But there you are trying to understand what it would be like to care about 911, so your feeble logic tells you that you should be offended by any remark about 911 that isn't weeping and crying about the horribleness of it all. -
I agree with your sentiment exactly. No use engaging in real debates with raving loons like Samus and Fish. Serves no purpose. I actually respect guys like Gorilla and Ape because they make cogent points even if we disagree vehemently. But guys like Samus and Fish bring no facts to the table - there's no basis for a debate like that.
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That's backpedaling. But whatever, it's not like I care.
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i've been thinking about something you said earlier. I think there really is no concrete way to compare the economic policies of the parties, if i say the economy was shit under bush but good under clinton you can say 'but times were good when clinton was in charge and bad when bush was in charge' you would be right too. that said i would argue that the respective leaders had something to do with it. the economy was bad under the other bush and these guys book end the clinton admistration. it is prob also true an economy is a huge and largely ununderstandable collection of interactions, to understand it....well there are 300mil americans and they make up the economy. I do have an argument over why the centre left is the best group for the economy (not the far left) but it is a long story and this not a fantastic medium. (the centre right can be just as good, they are essentially the same)the best thing i could say is go to wikipedia and look up public debt over the last 50 years. republics, claiming to be fiscally conservative and believers in small government, ALWAYS increase the size of the government and increase spending. now in any given year or given administration this can be explained away but it is a long term pattern. keep in mind a business cycle is like 3-5 years so any given two term president should have good times and bad times, but clinton pretty much only had good times and bush has pretty much only had bad times. lastly as i say look at public debt. Since lyndon johnston the only presidents to balance the books were clinton and carter and debt bordering on negligible - essentially event. Clinton had surpluses every year other than his first - left over from bush. w bush had a surplus his first year, left over from clinton. Since the 60s, only the democrats have balanced the books. some repulicans are worse than others. regan and bush have, to paraphase buffet been selling the family farm piece by piece in order to live the high life. this will come home to roost. and as for good times and bad times, australia has had about 11 years of uninterrupted growth so again it is tempting to say that bush had something to do with it. star face. you a bag full of crazy son.
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May 19, 2008 FRANKFURT (AFP) —
Warren Buffett, the world's richest man, is backing Barak Obama for US president and thinks current US economic policy will push the dollar lower against other global currencies
Buffett told a press conference here Monday he had offered support to both Obama and Democratic rival Hillary Clinton but that since it appeared Obama would win the party's nomination, "I will be very happy if he is elected president.
"He is my choice," Buffett said
*Sorry Samus but McCain must have had a "senior moment" or you must be looking at some pretty goofy info if you think Buffett was lying.
Add to that he is one of 3 advisors Obama is talking to TOMORROW (having already consulted with him many times previously) and it would seem that whatever McCain or his campaign might wish the simple fact is Obama has him as an advisor.
Though I am glad to see that his clear force as an Economic figure of Gravitas and Stature could well sway you to Obama. -
I really don't believe you. Earlier when he seemed to be calm and talking with intelligence, he directed me to some videos on YouTube of Obama which were almost completely irrelevant. Every statement you guys have presented tells me that you think anyone who argues for conservativism is a moron. So my A-Game would be coming in here and arguing for progressivism. Go ahead, step it up wordsmith. I'm here to be convinced, and you guys have nothing interesting to say but typical stuff.
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Hey that could help. Greatly.
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if the earth is only 5000 years old, and cave men fought dinosaurs, where does oil come from?
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clinton and carter had debt bordering on negligible - essentially even.
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wow - talk about white privilege - at the end of the day, thats what it boils down to - all the undecideds are so because they cant bring themselves to vote for a black guy - but theyd never admit as much in public - whenever i see or hear a white person say theyre still undecided, are very unsatisfied with the last 6-8 years and need more to go on before making a pick i laugh - "well republicans have fucked us over for 6-8 years, and i dont trust mccain... but i dont trust a black guy to do the job either" - a variant of this can be heard in households all over the country, i dont doubt it for an instant - america's dirty secret, the majority of white americans are afraid of black people (still!) and dont trust them - - polls have shown that race is a factor - when asked anonymously over the phone, it comes out loud and clear
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and its supporters - it made a lot of people and corporations rich(er)
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Thanks. That was fairly convincing. I've heard that come out of a few peoples mouths on tv- if it is really true- I wish I would hear it more. I remember hearing while Clinton was in office that he had balanced the budget- that mattered to me. It was at a time when I felt sick worrying that the United States was hemmoraging money. Of course we are hemmoraging yet again and if that was changed by Obama, I would feel sorry for most everything I have said about him. And actually, I believe he can do it, especially when he wants to stop our biggest open wound- the War. I'll take your word for it that the economy works best under a left center government, and similarly under right center. But is not right center or even left center what we would be getting with McCain? You said it doesn't work with far Left government so well- well am I wrong that is Obama?
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oil is god's runny excrement - rain is his tears - thunder is him farting - god's a dude by the way - every good christian knows that - a giant old white dude
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One, he is ignorant of the past. I think he is very young, but that still is no excuse in today's information at you fingertips age. Secondly, he is not the most flexible thinking individual I have come across - but I think he has potential to change. Which is why I am hesistant to just bomb the hell out of him. Disagreeing on issues is fine. But making up inane arguments to attempt to bolster your own failing viewpoint, is childish. That is what I am hoping he grows out of. Here me Samus? No problem with you being a Republican or conservative, but there is a guy around here named Samsquanch, who is both, and I respect his opinion more than just about anyone. Because he does not need to make up phony facts or argumenst to bolster his opinion. I have heard people say that AICN is not the place for political discussion. Why? Because most osf us are geeks? There are smart geeks and dumb geeks. Geeks who really do still live at home, and those who have made it. Racist geeks, and liberal geeks. Conservative geeks, and military geeks. In short - representative of America.
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But Samus is too deranged to be reasoned with. He wants to be "convinced" but ignores everything written by yourself, G100, Dave Bowman, Chipps, Ebonic, Goggle, et al.
But he didn't miss a chance at wishing death on McCain with Immortal_fish though. How nice. -
Even AICN past. You may want to dive into some of the old political talkbacks that are archived. Just do a google search on subjects like Jimmy Carter man from Plains. Or Greengrass. Anyway, I am tired. Going to bed. Just grow up some Samus. Do not change your beliefs, but change your perceptions, and broaden your thinking. I expect this to be a long term project.
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Well I am glad you dont feel hatred then. I was talking about liberals in general. Perhaps you have been seeing different information than I have on Palin, but nothing I have seen of her suggested anything to do with being a religious fanatic. But that is what you called her, and it seems to be based on a fact that you have discovered that religion is a big part of her life. Such a worry that she may be genuinely religious suggested to me that religious people should be shunned in politics. I have a friend at work that refuses to vote republican because they are the party of christians. His general and blanket distaste of them is just one note in a chorus I listen to all day every day. It's very ugly coming from the people who lecture about hate in the same breath.
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i'm a bit of a fence sitter really, slightly tipping to the left. when i say centre left or centre right i basically mean policies like a fair working week, good working conditions, good public hospitals, good schools. these are things (certainly in oz) that have been the back bone of our left wing parties policies since day one, always told by the right that they would ruin the economy. now they are accepted as good ideas by both sides, and we squable over the exact amounts. we have free public health here and i don't break the bank, our govt runs a surplus and we pay less tax, most people don't get health insurance and when they do get it, it is usually in the order of $1k - $2k per year. we also have hecs which is basically a public funded loan for higher education (but you only pay a fraction and only pay when your wage gets to a certain point) this discourges career students but means poor but gifted people get to go to uni for no upfront cost. we also have good social security and a relatively good pension (under review, it is said to be too low, i think it is 260 a week) again, the budget in surplus. this stuff i would call centre left/centre right.certainly as someone who studied economics i believe if you don't look after business the workers will lose out. that said, when there are productivity gains, the workers should benefit as well. we have a phrase for this stuff that gets used all the time. we say everyone deserves 'a fair go'.
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Of course I am ignorant of AICN past. Why is that relevant? You imply that you are over there shaking your head at my ignorance, what is the most major fact I have been wrong about here?
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And Lo Fred did gaze upon the face of Bedrock and he espied that the great Lizards of thunder were transformed into a Black substance that was not known to him or Barney.
But yay after Wilma had waxed wroth upon seeing Freds rainment stained with the Black Goo Fred was struck by inspiration most Divine.
He poured the Black Goo into a chalice inscribed "worlds greatest dad" and Barney did bring a burning frond unto the chalice...
And Fred saw the light. And Fred saw that it was good.
And there was much rejoicing ans supping of wine in Bedrock. Verily even unto the dawning of the new day when Fred and Barney deviseth "price gouging" and never more would they toil in the quarries of bedrock.
So it was and so it ever shall be. -
I think you have read my views on economics. Where do you think I am wrong, and where do you think I am right?
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way back at the start like two years ago i always like mcain, i remember when he ran against bush and they hated each other, people saying mcain had no place in the rebulican party cause he was too left. now i lean toward obama because his policies (particularly toward iraq) seem fluid, he seems to change them as new info comes in. in the middle of the surge i liked mcain, i have been against the war since before it started but that was the one time there seemed to be headway. mcain was talking about giving it a fair shake. i agreed, but i think now it has been given a fair shake. now you may say 'well obama keeps flip flopping' but i don't mind that. it has been a two year campaign. anyone who thinks it is the same world at the start and the end of that two years is insane. but at the end of the day i only slightly prefer obama (like a whisker) hardly enough say one over the other. then again, i'm american so i don't have as much heart in the issue as you guys would, i'm less passionate.
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i'm not really sure. (this is kinda general stuff) i think the benefits of tax cuts to the rich can be oversold. in bad times, like now you want money moving through the economy. since poor people spend a larger percent of their wage it is prob better to given them the cut. in bad times you should run a small deficit because this will stimulate the econ (should have small surpluses during good times). I don't mean to be rude but i think a big part of the problem is the american political system. over here we, like you have two big parties (but our equivalent of the president it the equivalent of your house majority leader - we don't have that same separation of power) a big difference is our guys vote along party lines more (i can only think of one conscience vote in the last 12 years, it was on abortion) most americans would say this reduces accountability but it actually increases it. on any issue SOME replucans were for it as were SOME democrats and vice versa. we don't get that if a policy fucks up one party definatly owns it. it also means we basically have no such thing as log rolling or pork, in fact no real members bills at all. when the majority leader say 'were doing this' (we call him the prime minister) it gets done. no one needs to get paid off or coerced the bills are not endlessly complex. this is one reason our tax is more simple. a simple tax system is good. there are negitives here too but i think both of your parties lack accountablity because there is no real central command for them. some democrats were in favour of the war others wern't. here, no member of the labor party was in favor, there is a more clear distinction between the policies of the parties.
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There are a HELL of a lot of examples in this talkback. From you blaming the Dems in the senate for the economic crisis. To blaming the Dems for the financial markets meltdown. To not knowing the differnce between regulation as DE-regulation. To claiming that we are headed towards socialism - becuasein part of the big bailouts and gov't take over or banks. To using that as an argument not to vote for Obama, when even if socialism is where we are headed, it would be the REPUBLICANS who are now in power taking us in that direction to which McCain is one. And BTW I do not for one second believe we are headed in a socialist direction. To your claim about dictators who came from nothing to power by inciting the poor, which I easily disproved by giving you the military examples, and you countered with Stalin - who was the number three in power behind Lenin and Trotsky until he had Trotsky killed. And who could care less about the Poor. Hilter, who founded his own political party and recruited across the socio-economic spectrum, but played mostly on nationalistic, and anti-semitic feelings. Then You chose Castro - who is the only one of the bunch to really use the poor to catapult himself into power. That is your problem, you do not know your history. You know bits and pieces, but not enough to make a sound argument. If you do not beleive me, then just look up Stalin and Hitler. Look up the military examples I gave. Or, if you insist on excluding the military dictators who came from nothing (which you did not do when you made your initial statement) then learn how to phrase a statement or question so that you do not look like a fool when it is exposed. Do that by being SURE of your facts. Do not just think 'hey Castro used the poor, so all dictators must have down the same thing'. Ok, I am done. Good night.
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i think i agree with a lot of what you say about the economy, but while i have been following the race i can't really apply much of this stuff to the players because they both talk in riddles and don't really reveal much.
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G'night chipps!
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i certainly wouldn't blame the dems for the current crises or say that it is good for them that the banks are collapsing, but you've pretty much already taken that back
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which means stop posting on the political talkback
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I know what you are talking about. I can see you are more well informed than me on these things, but I'm not as ignorant as you think I am. I know how unthought out my accusations were against the democrats concerning the current economy. I have to admit that maybe I just want it to be their fault. I was seriously grasping for straws with that argument, and actually it seemed pretty foolish even to me. As far as history goes- I know the history you laid out. Was not the anti-semetic sentiment that Hitler appealed to based heavily on economic woes? He encouraged the people to blame jews for the loss of the Great War, claiming it was caused by their economic greed, and that their poverty was an extension of that. I said Stalin kind of pulled himself up that way, and by that I meant just what you said- he came up with Lenin based on anger among the poor. I admit that you probably know your history better, but I seemed to have known what I was talking about in this case. You seem pretty rationale, does so little of what I say seem reasonable to you? I am comforted that you don't think we are headed to socialism. Truth is, I would have a hard time believing if it were really true either- it seems too exotic of an event to really happen. Nothing that interesting happens anyways.
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Oz is Australia right? Why do you pay such close attention to our election process? Does the outcome have that much of an effect on Australia?
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There's a huge percentage of people in this country who just cannot look at ANYTHING with nonpartisan eyes. They are blind slaves to an ideology that's been fed to them. Damn. We are SO screwed.
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australia. it gets coverage here, but also it interests me.
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Certainly not during the past two years, and farther back look at the Republican attempts to fix Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac over the years, there were always enough Democrats around to prevent their baby from having any sort of effective oversight. You can certainly argue that Bush hasn't done anything to prevent it but the current mortgage mess is essentially the left's creation, thanks to things like Clinton's use of the Community Reinvestment Act to strongarm private lenders into taking on trillions in bad loans. One of his biggest talking points that year was how he "boosted homeownership" more than any President in history... It's a great example along with things like the pre-depression era wheat market of government interference causing utter economic calamity. There's a stunningly prescient article from 2000 about the subject here: http://www.city-journal .org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html
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Does the fact Jessica Simpson's new album debuted number on the country charts and number four on the Billboard Hot 200 when McCain/Palin have this race in the bag?
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to quote yourself "Reading Comprehension is important"- what I said was in direct reaction to your "And yes, when he picked Sarah Palin it cemented my vote. I was going to vote for him anyway because the left is garbage...but when he chose Palin, he got my respect"- his selection of Palin has therefore encouraged you to vote for him- in that you are now no longer ambivalent. But thanks for the civil reply to my explosion of disbelief. But really, if she was fat then she would be the living embodiment of the negative American stereotyps. How can you vote for her?
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He's white. Any other election the Mcain/Palin ticket would be a joke, but because they are running against a minority they have a chance.
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Apart from the obvious fact that this is FAR more than a simple housing bubble with bad debt crisis.
For proof look into Derivatives and Liquidity as the Fed and Treasury (Bernanke and Paulson) currently are with a view to far reaching comprehensive REGULATION Legislation to passed in days in the hope of stopping the bloodletting. (The news of which appears to have boosted markets worldwide and may have thankfully steadied the markets)
Bloomberg article on it here > http://tinyurl.com/3gw7z5
And here is an article debunking the CRA myth.
http://tinyurl.com/3sjcfj
Which basically points out that half of all subprime loans were made by institutions that are not subject to CRA and another substantial share of subprime loans were made by subsidiaries of banks that do not fully come under CRA. They estimate that the substantial number of riskier loans banks were forced to accept by CRA were not enough to be a problem.
And the article you claim to be "stunningly prescient" is merely a call for the next President to either abolish or "roll back the compliance criteria" for the CRA. Which happened with Bush deregulations in 2005.
It's apocalytic "stunningly prescient" tone ? "concern" and a "threat to the health of cities".
It's not quite up there with Warren Buffetts far more accurate analysis and warnings of "time bombs" and "financial weapons of mass destruction" that could harm not only their buyers and sellers, but the whole economic system. Is it ? -
We pay a lot of attention to US elections because it does have a lot of impact on us. Especially in terms of foreign policy, we do send a lot of soldiers (relative to our population size and total military) to assist the US/NATO
Plus, US elections are quite a major drama - ours tend to be a bit more dull in comparison. I had fun explaining to my US friends how the Electoral College worked and how in 2000, Senator John McCain was the Republican to watch when he was coming second last out of all of the Presidential Candidates.
What's happening now is quite sad, really - what got my attention back then out of all of the other candidates is that he really was different from the Republicans and that's what caught my attention all the way from Australia when he was one of many.
If he'd kept going exactly like that now, even if he went on and lost, I think a lot more people would really respect him. Right now, it seems like he will say and do anything to win - the irony being I think he'd have a better chance if he'd been the McCain on 2000.
Now, even I'm starting to wonder if the McCain of 2000 ever existing and whether that was also an act tailored to what might have gained the best advantage at that time and those circumstances. -
I wouldn't underestimate BSB- while I do not agree with his rampant 9/11 conspiracy theories, I also recognise that he could destroy you, especially on some of the more ludicrous positions that you take. Don't forget, you're the ninja counsellour that lectures rape victims and genuinly believes that Doctors put aborted foetuses (should that not be foeti?) in a fucking tumble dryer. You are a cretin and a hypocrite and you simply make yourself look more and more stupid every time you post.
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and by Presidential Candidates, I mean Republican Candidates in the Primaries.
I think a) Al Gore should have offered John McCain 2000 the Vice Presidency and used the grounds of how he was treated and b) John McCain should have taken it.
GW (and the Republican Party as a whole) deserved to be screwed for how his campaign treated McCain back then and even more importantly, it might have saved John McCain from selling his soul to be nominated and elected. Not to mention the rest of the country and the world.
I have to note the frequent mentions of Barack Obama's "lack of experience". Well, Al Gore - Vice President for 8 years, a Senator before that, was he in Congress too? A whole load of committees and I don't even know what else. Of course go for the other guy. Was it a one term governor of a state where supposedly the lieutenant governor has the real power? And where there were serious doubts about - well to be frank a lot of things. That ended up working out well. B Obama seems to have a lot more than GW - not to mention more importantly a sense of - well sense for starters. Funny how GW's lack of experience when "taking" the top job is actually going to hurt him instead. Might be time to start asking questions about the experience of the electorate in picking candidates and who they elect. -
Just in case that wasn't clear.
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the reason the rest of the world pays attention to what happens in America is that America is the sole superpower and when it sneezes every other country catches a cold. This current economic crises shows that. At the moment we're stuck between horror and hysteria at the current mess and most of us are simply fabbergasted that you would even consider putting a fucking creationist (For fuck's sake! a CREATIONIST) within spitting distance of arguably the most powerful position on the planet. What the fuck is wrong with you? If you had any fucking nouse at all the appointment of Mrs "I only got my first passport in my 40's but I know about foriegn relations because Alaska is near Russia. Oh and the Flinstones is just like it was" should cement a 95% landslide for the Democrats. It's lunatic and absurd that some of you are even considering voting for McCain. Are you trying to put America back into the middle ages?
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We should be so lucky. I was worried about "dark ages" myself. Though a strong argument could be made that we're there already.
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Sep 19, 2008 4:07:42 AM CDT
Yes, tbransonlives -- I won't vote for Obama because he's Black!
by big dumb ape
You said "If McCain wins its only because he's white. Any other election the Mcain/Palin ticket would be a joke, but because they are running against a minority they have a chance."Yeah, you're right, tbransonlives. You nailed it. Because Obama is Black both me and literally MILLIONS of other people won't vote for him. And the fact that HALF OF THE COUNTRY (going by the polls) might actually disagree with his Leftist political positions has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.Damn! You figured it all out. And now I feel so exposed for being the racist that I am (insert mocking eye roll here)...
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heh- whoops. I should have said "Stone Age"
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He's half black...all liberal. That should be the slogan for his movie poster.
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After her acceptance speach at the RNC, I said that I am anticipating the news that she has received a clean headshot, and her brains sprayed all over the pavement- this day may yet come. (Why do you think she is more likely to get "popped"?)Part of me wants to vote for him JUST because he is black- I know how you guys feel. I just want to see an underdog story of a good african american man who beat all the odds and made it to the white house, and then showed us how much better things can be if the president doesn't come from the same old stale stock- but then I remember that some of his friends might actually hate my guts.(Let me clue you in, McCain's 'friends' don't give a fuck about you either)Basically I just look at who wants banks to fail so that they go under government control- it most definately isn't the republicans. It's a lazy theory that I threw out there. (what a fucking ridiculous statemetn)If you are talking about his fear that McCain will die and Palin will be Prez. That is no secret- We ALL can't wait. Let it be heard. I want a true blue (or red as it is nowadays) conservative in the white house. (so much for distancing yourself from those crazy lefties who wanted someone dead, huh?)McCain, fair game- He's a womanizing, low in his class, elitist, BORING, bad on the economy, 95% agreeing with Bush (as if that is so bad, heh), Almost dead hack who thinks that middle class is anyone making less than 5 million. Do you guys have anything to add? I'll throw it on the pile. You will not find me denying any of this anywhere on this thread. (and yet you still will be voting for HIM and you clearly don't care if the President of the U.S. blatantly lies to the American public since you've continued to back Bush in everything it seems)And John McCain does have an interesting economic plan that I am right now interested in- Ihave heard that he is thinking of bringing Meg Whitman into his cabinet as his economic advisor. (what's so interesting about it?)Because gay marriage is totally gay. (so are you against gays?)I haven't the words to describe the bullshit that you write down.
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If you're still lurking about, come find me in the "5 Days to FanFest" TB currently sitting at #2 and I'll give you the lowdown on Asian film. A whole lot has come out since we last spoke.
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Sep 19, 2008 7:40:55 AM CDT
Considering I'm reading the same bullshit on every web page
by shut the fuck up donny
including a fucking sports blog talking about college football, I am about fed up with this need to drag the political fight into every aspect of American culture.
I'm looking at you Harry Knowles.
But I digress. You spell it habeas corpus, people. Not habeus corpus. I have to review these damn petitions all day, so I should know.
Cheers.
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"And the fact that HALF OF THE COUNTRY (going by the polls) might actually disagree with his Leftist political positions has absolutely NOTHING to do with it."
No no no... don't you remember? He HAS no positions on anything, right? I mean, that's what the right wing has been saying for a year now. You're getting your talking points confused. Better turn on the talk radio and get that straightened out, son.
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... that the Republicans are done. With the country in the shape it's in, this is a prime example of a "change" election (in case anyone hasn't noticed). So why is it so close? I think it's perfectly legitimate to discuss racial prejudice in this case. People like to act like this country is "over it" but that's patently false, particularly among the older generations. Look at the split of who's voting for who above and below fifty years of age. Anyway, sure - some people are completely fed up with the Republican-run DC yet Obama is still somehow less palatable to them politically. But I think this is a small minority (pun intended after the fact).
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No need to bring out the big guns on Samus - you could whip him with a feather, he's such a lightweight.
Ape - it's not necessarily that all right-wingers are voting against Obama because he's black, but there are some Dems, too, who aren't voting because he's black. Many Dems are convincing their neighbors to go color-blind on him, to judge him on the issues, on substance.
And there's a significant effort to scare certain voters with race-mongering smears. For some insight into this, check out the blog at jewsvote.org.
Next week will be huge in this campaign. The debates. It will be bigger than The Dark Knight.
Obama: The Darkie Knight -
Sep 19, 2008 9:18:50 AM CDT
nothing gets my dick hard like politics in the morning...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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Sep 19, 2008 9:25:12 AM CDT
there's a local issue on my ballot in California....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...concerning a Bond measure for a local community college.
I would like to support it-- though I'm going to have to research Benjamin Netanyahu's stance on the matter first, before I jump to any rash decisions. -
Because Republicans understand that capitalism will ultimately be what brings peace to the world. Free trade. They're also for a strong national defense and for personal defense. It is unfortunate that conservatives have to pander to the religious-right wingnuts. That said, I'll be voting for McCain. By the way, I'm making almost twice what I was making eight years ago, so the Bush years haven't been altogether bad for me and mine. Hate to give more of that up for Joe Biden's version of "patriotism".
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Because Republicans understand that capitalism will ultimately be what brings peace to the world. Free trade. They're also for a strong national defense and for personal defense. It is unfortunate that conservatives have to pander to the religious-right wingnuts. That said, I'll be voting for McCain. By the way, I'm making almost twice what I was making eight years ago, so the Bush years haven't been altogether bad for me and mine. Hate to give more of that up for Joe Biden's version of "patriotism".
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"Because Republicans understand that capitalism will ultimately be what brings peace to the world." ===== That is the best laugh I have had all day.
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I think that a lot of people hate Palin, and that includes some people who would solve it with a shot in the head. If it can happen to JFK, why wouldn't it happen to her? I'd rather McCains friends who don't give a fuck about me than Obamas friends who think I have had it too good for too long. I am not wishing McCain dead, I was just exaggerating. I'd hoped that was clear enough by my tone. Yeah I still want McCain after all those nasty things I could admit about him, because the things I could say about Obama are worse. I haven't heard anyone on your side admit anything negative about Obama here. There is plenty to admit, and you guys don't sound objective if you refuse to acknowledge his weaknesses. And it makes it hard for me to get past his weaknesses when those issues are never addressed. The reason that the possibility of Meg Whitman as his economic advisor is interesting (as opposed to convincing I assume you mean) is that I don't yet know if that is going to happen, and also I don't yet know if that is as good as it sounds. Thus it is interesting. "Because gay marriage is totally gay"? You actually took that statement seriously? This is the second time you interpretted a complete joke as a serious statement. Go take everything that BSB says seriously too then.
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Do you find that statement funny because you don't like capitalism?
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... is give capitalism a chance! Because the USA is the largest exporter of capitalism and the largest exporter of ... *cough* peace. You can't deny it! Oh wait I just sarcastically criticized my country. I must hate the US!
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"Do you find that statement funny because you don't like capitalism?" ====== Not at all. of all the economic systems, capitalism is by far the least problematic and has the widest innate advantages, but like all systems it is based in a large degree on exploitation. To believe ANY economic system will bring peace to the world is laughably messianic. Pope JP2 would have been the first to tell you that.
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Actually I think you are right. If he does lose, it may be because he is black. A small percentage will turn away from democrats, and that will be enough to even things out. Furthermore- I believe that people lie in the polls even right now- they are doing perhaps exactly what Chris Rock said years before Obama what they would do in case of a black president- They will say that they would vote for him, but turn around and not- because it sounds like the right thing to say. The polls may be lying. The fact is that you are right, there remains racism in the country. I don't have any clue how much, my guess it is less than we are made to believe- but it is there. Based partly on that- I just don't think Obama is going to win- this election is extremely close and that is likely going to be the tie breaker. I know it isn't a fair reason- it should be only on issues.
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ok touche
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Well said.
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but even those diametrically opposed are making their arguments reasonably. But I gotta say, Coughlins Laws is ill-informed to a degree where I literally had to stop reading his posts, they were that ignorant. Yeah I'm behind the curve of the TB a little, but wow.
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I'm going to try to be more sober like you said. Sometimes I have to constantly reel myself in because I act like a bulldozer normally. When I hear outrageously wreckless statements like that Palin can't wait to kill all people with dark skin, and stuff generally comparing conservatives with religious nutjobs, I am sometimes too tempted to kick back with just as much wrecklessness. But I have noticed that you are generally more thoughtful, and I will try more to stay in your tone. But why don't you attack people making the wreckless statements on your side? That doesn't aid in this little debate any better.
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I'm sorry I had to miss reading it and laughing along with some of you. "Vote or Die!" Huzzah! Hooray! "Gesundheit!"
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Let's not forget she has been governor of Alaska for almost a whole two years! (I think that's even longer than how long she's owned a passport!) And that great state shares so many concerns with the rest of the union, it might as well be a mini-version of the US. In fact, one might argue she's practically been president already. Think about how complex the issues are in Alaska, and you'll get an idea of the deep executive experience Palin has.
Did I mention she has five kids and said "thanks but no thanks to that bridge to nowhere up in Alaska" and figured out how to keep the federal funds for it in-state anyway? Also as far as commander-in-chief cred goes, it's fairly obvious she'll be very "inspiring" to our boys in the military. -
Yes that was a re-post
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I have attacked extremists on both sides. But I am not the AICN police. I do not patrol for trolls. And besides most true trolls are only saying outrageous things to provoke a response. I have a an SOP: Do - Not- Feed -The - Trolls. You, on the other hand, I do not consider a troll, just misguided, which is why I have engaged you in conversation. And I have not attacked you - at least not in the true sense of what normally goes on around here. Like I said last night, keep your beliefs, and stand up for what you believe in. But do not bolster your arguments with false or inaccurate information. There are more conservatives on here than you think. The ones who have gained respect - state their views forcefully, but back it up with the truth. The ones who have derision heaped on them, say outrageous things that makes them an easy target. Ignore the trolls - on both sides. Make your case. We may still disagree - and that is fine. But it will be with mutual respect. And we both might learn something.
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As John McCain learned so vividly back in 2000, when he was Swiftboated by his own party as he sought their nomination, the last thing the Republicans want or will tolerate is a "maverick." You know what happens to a maverick? They get roped back into the herd, branded, and gelded. Today, the word sounds good in a campaign, but McCain has reversed himself on just about every one of his "maverick" issues, including tax cuts, immigration, offshore drilling, abortion rights, and torture.In 2004, Republicans had a name for men who change their policy positions under political pressure: flip-flopper. Today, the word they favor is "maverick".Even the Wall Street Journal is castigating McCain for his feeble, flailing performance during the current financial crisis. If McCain is elected, we'll get as much Maverickness out of him as we got compassionate conservatism, a "humble foreign policy", and bipartisanship from Bush.
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This paragon of manly virtue has refused to testify in the probe into his wife's misdeeds being conducted by the Alaska Legislature, a violation of Alaska Law. Guys like him can break the law at their convenience. It's inspirational.
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After decades of Republican yammering about how government regulation is needlessly hampering our ability to do business, and decades of successfully dismantling those regulations, it's now become a little bit noticeable that the purpose of those nasty old rules was to prevent irresponsible rich bastards from screwing around with your money! The Republican line was as follows: "Well, fellows, heh heh, you can really go to town now! Try anything you want, no matter how shabby, how shady. When your house of cards comes down, we've got a few hundred million taxpayers out there who will be happy to prop it back up again for you."Suckers. Behold Republican fiscal responsibility at its finest. Behold the vaunted Republican mastery at managing the economy.
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LOL!!!
GOBAMA!!! -
Unless you take into account his embracing and support of Jeremiah Wright and the rantings of Black Liberation Theology for the last 20 years. THAT is definitely in the back of many Americans minds as to exactly what type of person would happily attend such a racist church and what their REAL core beliefs are.If Obama loses, it will simply be because people DON'T TRUST HIM. Because of Wright — whose message directly contradicts Obama's campaign claims of "HOPE", because of Obama's lack of experience and spending most of his time in the Senate running for the Presidency, because of his dealings with convicted slumlord and businessman Tony Rezko, as well as domestic terrorist William Ayres, who bombed the Capitol and Pentagon.All of these things add up to Barack Obama being a dangerous gamble for MANY people, who see him as someone who says one thing, but whose actions and associations tell a completely DIFFERENT story. And rightfully, those people aren't willing to put such an unknown quantity into the most powerful position in the world because, regardless of what he says, we simply don't know what he'd actually DO.If Colin Powell were running, on the other hand, Powell would win.
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marches forth to Washington, thanks to McCain's reckless judgment.
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Enough already. Get serious or get lost.
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...After surging back 400+ yesterday. Which means if the day holds -- despite all the bad news of the last few days -- Wall Street and the Dow will be right back where it was a week ago. Possibly even ahead. Let's just keep our fingers crossed that it does stabilize so people can sleep a bit easier.But if the number holds steady and Wall Street stabilizes a bit, the economy will still be a prime factor in the election, but it will reshape the tenor of the debates next week too. This week has left people saying "What the fuck?! It's up! It's down! It's back where it was!" which means each candidate will really have to stand up there and actually outline HOW they're going to stablilize things long term and HOW they're going to improve peoples wages/savings in the next 4 years. Then again that could be bad news for Obama if Biden keeps opening his yap with statements as ridiculous as "You should all pay more taxes to demonstrate your patriotism." I think it's safe to say THAT one isn't going to fly with the American people as a vote-getting slogan. Then again I'm sure someone has already bitch-slapped Biden and told him to never make such an overt "we're going to raise your taxes" statement again. Although here's a news flash for dopey Biden: there already IS a federal program that exists where you can OVERPAY your taxes to make a donation to the Government. So someone in ObamaLand might want to point that out to him...But I'll agree with BSB on this -- the debates are now going to be politic's DARK KNIGHT mega event, most likely producing all-time record high Neilsen ratings much the like convention speeches achieved. Which frankly, regardless of who wins in November, makes me happy as an American to see. It's always a good thing for our country -- regardless of which side of the aisle you sit on -- to see so many people at least TRYING to take an active interest in what's going on or at least TRYING to decide which way they'll actually vote based on the issues. So as far as I'm concerned a DARK KNIGHT ratings-like debate is a good sign for our country...
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Let me guess... "a lot of your best friends are black".
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When the Democratic head of the investigating committee has bragged about dropping "an October surprise" before the investigation is even complete?Since Sarah Palin's been tapped for VP, the whole Troopergate investigation as sunk into the toilet by Obama supporters in the investigating committee who've made no secret of trying to use it to try to hurt Palin and get Obama into the White House.
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As well as my entire family. Sorry to burst your liberal racist bubble of how Negroes are supposed to think.
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If you think attending, supporting and defending a racist church for 20 years doesn't matter and has no bearing on the attitudes of those attending it, then you're a pretty big fool.And I have no doubt that if John McCain attended a church run by David Duke, you'd be all over him. And rightfully so. So what does that make you? Hint: It rhymes with "hippogriff".
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It looks like this massive bailout has stabilized investor confidence and given the banking industry a breather from plummeting values in their holdings ... but there's s much work to do to help the economy actually rebound. Housing will continue to slide because foreclosures will continue to rise and that's affecting surrounding prperty values.
I'm glad you're going to be watching the debates as closely as I will be. I'm glad you're going to hear Obama's plan with an open mind.
Obama's not out to tax the rich for the sake of it, nor is there any "income redistribution" plan. Our government has serious budget deficits (I think $500 Billion this year) which are adding to the 9.5 Trillion national debt. This bailout will likely extend that even more.
Everybody has to pay taxes. Bottom line - rich and poor. But to stimulate the economy, Obama is asking for reinstating Clinton-level taxes for the rich and giving a break to the middle class - which should spur consumer spending. And more consumer spending and enabling people to cover their mortgages will serve the banks and corporations well. Trickle up, as it were. That's the best way to stabilize the economy.
Giving tax breaks to the wealthy, even to create some new jobs, will not do much good if the middle class can't afford to buy anything. And an eroded consumer base will prove disastrous for the corporations and businesses who sell to them.
Also Obama is offering a investment in rebuilding our national infrastructure. Rather than sinking $10 Billion a month into Iraq - that yields ZERO return for our country, why not spend that money here? Schools, roads, rail system, alternative energy resources ... all this will yield BIG DIVIDENDS for our country in the near future.
I'm sorry but to me there is no one nearly as viable a candidate as Obama when it comes to the economy. Even the Wall Street Journal has been severely critical of McCain (see: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/19/ wall-street-journal-editorial-board- skewers-mccain/#more-19356).
GOBAMA!!! I hope he does some campaigning in NYC. What I would'nt give to behold him with mine own eyes!!!!!!!! -
Sep 19, 2008 12:16:26 PM CDT
MAYBE GHOSTWHOLURKS CAN TELL US HIS THOUGHTS ABOUT REV. HAGEE
by bringingsexyback
and how McCain ACTIVELY SOUGHT his endorsment only months ago. Please, let's hear it.
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Clever.
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How was Reverend Wright's church racist? Because he yelled about racism in our society? So balck people should just shut up and accept it?
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Sep 19, 2008 12:21:02 PM CDT
AND FOR THE RECORD THAT'S THE *ONLY* TIME I MENTIONED HAGEE
by bringingsexyback
I've not once bashed McCain based on his association with marginal characters like Hagee. But since Ghostwholurks is still on the Wright/Ayers bandwagon while the rest of the country - including Bill O'Reilly - has moved on to real issues, I thought it was worth mentioning.
The issues. They're what are important. No more lipstick, no more abortion. That's just smokescreening by desperate people. -
I would like to see where you're finding that Obama had "dealings" with a slum lord. And William Ayres. Post a link, please. Talk as much as you want, but it sounds a lot like the whole sex-ed-to-kindergarteners nonsense to me. As for what he'd do, folks have accurately laid out his economic plan right here. Also, keep in mind the fact that $3 billion a Day (!) is being spent on killing Iraqis. Obama ends the war, frees up a huge chunk of funds, and maybe we can stop laying off teachers and being the most backwards firstworld nation healthcare-wise in the world. What's McCain gonna do? In between all the attacks on Obama's character I can't say I even know. Other than DRILL BABY DRILL. Disturbing.
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You'll pardon me while I call bullshit.
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No hypocrit is not the right word. He has a double standard. Racism against whites is not a big deal. The thing about Obama is that he has been trying to elevate himself above the issue of race, and for a while people were buying into it. But eventually his past caught up with him, and for some reason he handled it extremely poorly from that point on. If americans are not willing to have a black president, it may be more complicated than you may think sexy. And the thing is that in response to Jeremiah Wright, Obama completely confessed the very reason many people would be worried about a black president. He said that black people may be nice and of good manner in front of white people, but in the barber shop where it is only black people talking- there is a deep and passionate anger that still exists. The scars of the past are still pissing them off. So he said. I've seen examples of that in public demonstrations in real life- and it is potent stuff. However, this is probably not true across the board, and I see many examples where I believe it is not true. But Barack is nowhere near one of those positive examples. He seems the be the very personification of the type of black man he was describing in that press conference. I have been meaning to read his book "Dreams from my Father" in its entirety. However, I have listened to excerpts of him personally reading from his book, and it is the kind of thing that you need to read somewhat between the lines, but you can sense the explosive anger he has. The very title suggests that he doesn't have strong regard for his white heritage. His father whom the book is so respectfully titled after, is not the kind of man that deserves Baracks respect. Barack met his father only twice in his life, because his father was busy traveling from life to life, leaving a wake of unfathered families all across the planet. Why did Barack care about this man enough to take his name, and to write a book so seemingly respectful of him. I can only conclude that it was because his father was the only link he had to his black heritage, and that blinded him to what a terrible father (and seemingly terrible man) he was. There is a chapter in his book in which he describes the "proof" that his grandmother was racist. It seems that she wanted her husband to start driving her to work because she no longer wanted to go to the bus stop where a black vagrant was always present, and would continually harrass her. This is Barack's proof of racism. The book has other examples of Barack being angry over extremely benign situations.
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Sep 19, 2008 12:34:48 PM CDT
JOHN MCCAIN JUST ASKED HIS AUDIENCE FOR "LONG AND SUSTAINED" APP
by bringingsexyback
But of course he used a military reference to get it. So sad.
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for giving us a clear example of how those in desperation resort to smokescreening in lieu of a good argument. You did well.
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To say "I haven't heard anyone on your side admit anything negative about Obama here" is disingenuous. I say bad things about the bum ALL. THE. TIME.His campaign took massive contributions from some of the banks going under right now and the bastard doesn't adress it by saying, "Oooops, my bad. I can't in good conscience keep this money so I'll make the token gesture of giving it back."Obama does plenty to piss me off. And I've always been ready to call him out on it. Seriously, if you haven't figured out that most of us are liberal but are having trouble stomaching the thought of having to vote for him this election, then you're glossing over our posts.I mean really, if I vote for Obama it's actually going to be more painful than when I voted for Kerry and Kerry was an a-hole.Lastly, this sentence makes no sense: "I'd rather McCains friends who don't give a fuck about me than Obamas friends who think I have had it too good for too long." You do realize that McCain's friends (and Obama's) are the guys who ran companies like Enron, Global Crossing, AIG, Fannie/Freddie, Merrill Lynch into the ground knowing full well YOU would be stuck with the bill. So it seems to me they think you've had it too good for too long as well.And for all these small business owners and upper class Republicans, bailing out the banks will eventually tip us over $1 trillion. Coupled with the billions we're pumping into Iraq every month, exactly how do propose the government is going to curb that debt if not to raise taxes? If you think McCain won't be forced to do this once he's in office, you're delusional.
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Maybe he got lost in his own smoke.
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To what post are you talking about? And what was that post supposed to be responding to?
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How about because he's required by law to do so? Or doesn't that count in their world?Maybe McCain might have picked a running mate not involved in an ongoing ethics investigation? It could have been a good move on his part. If the findings would indeed hamper his candidate, too damn bad. Do you think it's possible for the investigation to have real evidence of real ethics violations which maybe voters ought to know about before the election? Or should it all be swept under the rug because the investigation is being run by a Democrat (as if the Republicans would ever investigate anything she did).
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It's all about what Obama stannnnnnds for. Cough. Bullshit. Cough. Are you serious? Even if Obama wins, there will be no shortage of votes cast for McCain cause Obama's black(ish). If you don't know this for a fact - which it is - you live a sheltered life.
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Ethically - he and the Guv should be required to testify. Legally they should be compelled to do so (I have no idea if the Law requires them or not). But realistically, and politically, I absolutely understand why they would NOT testify. It would be a total circus, and yes, it would be designed to inflict maximum damage on the Palins before the elections. If I were his advisor, I would tell him the same thing. Avoid it until after the election. It is only two months away.
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Quote: "If Colin Powell were running, on the other hand, Powell would win."Well, thanks to his credibility smashing, magnificently self-destructive WMD slide-show performance at the UN, that will NEVER happen.Quote: "Since Sarah Palin's been tapped for VP, the whole Troopergate investigation as sunk into the toilet by Obama supporters..."Maybe John McCain should have...you know...vetted her first. Good lord, have you heard some of the stuff she's been saying on the campaign trail? What does all this say about McCain's judgment when he takes a risk such as Palin?! Seems highly dubious to me.
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If you did not know who Obama was, and he was walking towards you, would you think: A) Thats a nicely dressed black man. B) Thats a nicely dressed bi-racial man. C) Thats a nicely dressed man. Most would choose A. Blacks included. Obama identifies with being black because his and others perception is that he IS black. Tiger Woods can claim any and all heritage he likes, but if he was unknown, and if a APB went out for a medium toned black man, athletic build, and if Tiger just so happened to be walking past a LA police car, well he could scream 'I'm cabalanasian' all damn damn, day, but he would still be black to the rest of the world.
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Would you Palin supporters concede that the Scientific Method is THE foundation of western civilization? That it is the premier cultural edict that distinguishes the west from other societies that are steered by superstition and myth? If so... if you believe this... then how can you elect a woman who believes that the earth is 7,000 years old?
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This whole Troopergate debacle has proved once again that Republicans do hypocrisy better than anyone. They had zero problem going after Clinton like rabid dogs during Monicagate, but when it comes to one of their own, suddenly it's a witch hunt.And by defying a subpoena that would land the rest of us in jail, Todd Palin has proven he's garbage and through association and non-condemnation, so has Sarah Palin and McCain.And to think that there are still pieces of human slime that still have the gall to call Obama an elitist. Anyone who can give the finger to a court ordered subpoena and not face criminal charges is at a level of elitism us slobs in the trenches cannot even fathom.
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...how about
C) That's a nicely dressed socialist who wants to raise taxes on everything under the sun at a time when raising taxes would absolutely destroy any hope of fixing a troubled economy. -
Hah!
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"That's a nicely dressed socialist who wants to raise taxes on everything under the sun." ======== Son... it's a tough fact of life: no one rides for free. Now, the way we've been partying it up, the bar tab will have to be paid. You have three choices: the middle and working class pay for all of it (McCain), the middle and working classes kick in some, and the upper class pays their fair share (Obama), or the children and grandchildren of the middle and working class pays for it (Bush). Now...if you're upper class, what are you going to do? You're going to use the media to get the rank and file to think someone is a "dangerous socialist". There will be enough suckers out there who buy it.
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Uh, BR - well one you are wrong about Obama and taxes, as has been pointed out by the national factchecks on multiple occasions. But let me ask you this: With the Hundreds of Billions of dollars being put out by the Federal gov't to save the banks, don't you think it is just a tad bit imprudent to be cutting taxes (a'la McCain wanting to keep the bush tax cuts permanent)? I mean, that money gotta come from somewhere -or are we just gonna print more?
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...dude...I totally respect you for that write up. It was clear and concise...respectful and to the point.
I disagree however about the term "fair share" when it really isn't a their fair share...it's much more and it's clearly unfair. Basically, it's punishment for being successful and I just don't agree with that.
Income redistribution is not something that I feel should be a part of our capitalistic system.
Also, this is economics 101 here...the practicality of the issue at hand is that any sort of raising of taxes is going to make a bad situation terribly, terribly worse.
Obama himself has stated that he may need to "hold off" on his economic plan and keep the Bush tax cuts in effect longer than he anticipated if elected to office.
This says one and only one thing to me...but others will read it however they want to read it.
I'm pretty sure the majority of the people on these talkback already know who they are voting for...so nobody's being swayed here...we're all just a bunch of talking heads at this point. -
Exactly right. By changing his mind on taxes until after the recession is over- it is admitting that increasing the taxes on the rich from this point will hurt the economy. The change in plan comforts me in that at least he seems to somewhat care about the economy- and that he is willing to follow common sense in extreme cases such as these. I do believe that if he keeps the capitol gains tax down, it will have more revenues coming in than if he raised them. Raising those taxes just simply is not going to result in more money to pay off the bailouts. I just don't see any purpose to raising the taxes on the rich. It's not that I care about their wallets- I could care less, but I believe in the argument being made.
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Drag him back to Alaska on a dogsled. And waterboard him until he admits how he hates America so much he wants Alaska to secede. Then raise his taxes.
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"I disagree however about the term "fair share" when it really isn't a their fair share...it's much more and it's clearly unfair."==========
REDISTRIBUTION OF WEATH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON. Never before has the nation's wealth become so concentrated so quickly. At the state and local level, the top 1 percent already pays a lower rate than everyone else. When payroll takex are factored in, they pay a lower or equal share at all three levels, and most of that tax is on dividend income, so the perceived "penalty" for hard work doesn't exist. The richest 5% now pay lower taxes than they have in 7 decades. -
Outlaw them and waterboard all CEOs who drive companies into the ground.
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Sep 19, 2008 3:13:54 PM CDT
FREE SANDWICHES FOR EVERYONE MAKING LESS THAN $250,000
by bringingsexyback
How can we rebuild the economy on an empty stomach? Sandwiches are the building blocks of America.
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That'll provide an incentive for people not to be assholes.
Good idea huh? -
Imagine the revenues!!! ZOMG
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I'll just pimp out mo biatches!!!
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GODAMMMITTT!!!
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New season starts next Monday! Mark your Blackberries! Tell your mom upstairs to have sandwiches ready!!!!!!!
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U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!!
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Yes, according to Alaskan law, Palin is required to comply with the subpoena, and is therefore breaking the law. Todd Palin is a criminal.Yeah, if I were a Palin advisor, and thus devoid of any ethical compunction, I would advise him to "avoid" (defy) the subpoena too, knowing there will be no consequence to him. What of that? What's the issue here, uncovering the truth, or inconveniencing McCain's campaign? Any damage done would be due only to the Governor's abuses of power. If she's innocent, establish that and let the Democrats look like fools. If she's guilty, that's something I want voters to know before the election. If she wins, and she's found guilty later, my suspicion is she will somehow be immune to any consequences whatsoever. She can go to being the scourge of government corruption which McCain paints her as.
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That's a given. Total abuse of power and corruption of the law. Release the hounds now!!!!
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i agree that a country should run a deficit during bad times but the problem is that the US has been running a massive deficit for a while. In fact the US by virtue of the fact that every economy in the world is linked to it gets special treatment (keeping a high credit rating when it shouldn't being lent money long after people would have stopped lending to others) It is all well and good to cut taxes but that money has to come from somewhere. considering that oil will continue to run low and cost more (whether you believe in global warming or not oil is a limited resource) and the west has an aging population (in our life time we will see the smallest working age pop as a percent of total pop, basically in history) it seems to me that we (western countries) need to get our houses in order for a coming storm and that it is totally the wrong time (if there is a right time) to have crazily high foreign debt. and the US debt is getting crazy.i would certainly disagree with wealth redistribution but taxes should still be progressive. really what we are talking about should not be punishing the rich but saying: at what point will they stop putting extra effort because of taxes. that is the real question and a big concern. really the US requires a massive reform of its tax system, one of my mates works at the australian tax office and he was comparing the ato to the US and the complexity of your system (brought about largly due to log rolling and lobbyists) makes tax collection much more expensive in the US than it is in most other countries ie: when you pay tax obviously the dudes who work for the tax department get paid, so how much of what you pay acctually becomes revenue. the answer for the US is a smaller percent than most countries in the western world.largly the biggest fear is that people will stop lending to your govt. that is bad news and is already starting. it is also a big part of the reason for the credit crunch. your govt has 'crowded out' private borrowers, the people lending the money are running out. one thing your govt has started to do is print money to raise money (not a great deal but enough to sting) the bad news with this is that because china is artificially keeping its currency low it is gathering US reserves (over a trillion i think) - at some point they will get sick of helping to fund the war in iraq (through the inflation on those reserves brought about by the US funding things by printing money) at that point they will sell the reserves and everyone will be fucked. in fact that is prob why they havn't done it yet, because of the damage it would cause. still it is like holding up a growing dam and you would have to expect that at some point they will float their currency and the chickens will come home to roost.long post, sorry
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ARRRGH!!! Sexy I can't believe you support waterboarding. I have never been so offended in my life. Hey everyone, BSB supports WATERBOARDING!!!
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Someone IN THIS COUNTRY is going to have to pay off the national debt which has ballooned over the last 8 years. Unless you guys want to become the United States of China, I suggest you let Obama raise the taxes back to where they were pre-Bush and, ironically, pre-grotesque national debt. The fact that 85% of taxpayers will get tax relief makes me wonder how anyone can make a fuss about this. Is it the principle? That's a laugh, my friends.
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I thought you lived in Australia. How are you then part of western countries? Just curious.
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When Capitalism fails the state provides.
So much for Economics 101.
Very nice post chipps and all too true I fear.
Pressure is building on the pristine triple-A credit rating of the US government, the chairman of Standard & Poor's sovereign ratings committee said. The bail-out ‘has weakened the fiscal profile of the United States’, John Chambers said. ‘There's no God-given gift of a triple-A rating, and the US has to earn it like everyone else,’”
Of course it's a bit much for credit evaluators & rating agencies who foolishly rated the bad debt in Collateralized Loan Obligations and Credit Default Swaps as triple AAA to suddenly realise they have a job to do.
And if the "Comprehensive" solution being hatched is indeed more than a SuperBailout Fund and actually begins to look at solving the roots of the problem, perhaps the fact the credit rating agencies get paid by the seller and not the buyer will finally get addressed.
Many of the Derivaties and stuff like CLO's and CDS's are not ON the books at all so they are lurking and will lurk still after the Superbailout. The total market in Credit Default Swaps if I remember rightly account for something like 23 TRILLION.
Derivaties and Securities and the like