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Massawyrm sets fire to BURN AFTER READING!!
Hola all. Massawyrm here.
Sigh. This is one of those talkbacks I just won’t be reading. It’s no secret that I’m not the world’s biggest fan of the Coen brothers. It’s not that I have anything against them, I just tend not to like what they do. I dig the hell out of a few of their films – Blood Simple, Miller’s Crossing, O Brother, Where Art Thou. You know, the ones everyone loves. And while I can appreciate entire chunks of some of their other films Fargo, The Big Lebowski and No Country for Old Men, I dislike the endings to all of them. More importantly, I dislike the experimental storytelling techniques they often employ that have become their stock and trade. But even more importantly than that, I dislike the Coen fanbase that I have to interact with after I’ve seen their films.
It’s that look they give you. They way they begin to explain what the Coen’s were doing as if to a child, as if you didn’t understand it. Because clearly, once you understand what they are doing, you’ll have to like it. But when you explain to them that you do in fact understand it and simply do not like it, they look at you with this befuddled expression, completely confused as if you’ve just spoken in some form of ancient Sanskrit. And then they try to explain it again.
”You don’t understand. It’s like a Raymond Chandler novel, except that NOTHING ties together rather than everything tying together. Isn’t that great?” No. When someone gives me information to process and hints that it means something, only to later tell me that everything I just saw meant nothing, then I don’t think it is all that great. I think they were jerking me off. ”Okay, have you ever read a Raymond Chandler novel?” Yes. ”Well, it’s like that, only you know how there are always two unrelated cases that are really related? Well here, they’re actually completely unrelated. Nothing’s related! Get it?” Yes. So why don’t you like it? Because that is just jerking off. Okay let me try this again…
And in what appears to be an effort to repeat the success of The Big Lebowski they copied much, but not all, of that original formula. This time in place of the Chandler novel they’ve taken the notion of the convoluted spy thriller, populated it entirely with a cast of completely unlikable characters and then once again offer up a story that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. It is a story about nothing. There is a plot and there are characters and things do in fact happen. But they never lead anywhere. There’s no hero, no true main character, no one you give so much as one Iota about. Only a troupe of lecherous, lying, cheating, arrogant, cardboard cutout high society lowlifes who we are never offered a single reason to care about who fuck with, fuck over and just plain fuck each other in what becomes a nightmarish web of repugnant interpersonal behavior. Which is the point. Get it?
The main problem here is that once again the Coen’s have offered up a film in which they have no love for any of their characters. Sure, the Coen’s occasionally love some of their characters - No Country for Old Men is a perfect example of that. They LOVE Llewelyn Moss, his wife, Tommy Lee, hell, they even love the hell out of Chigurh. But this isn’t that kind of movie. I know I mentioned Lebowski, but even then this isn’t that kind of movie either. The Coen’s love The Dude. And everyone around him skirts the shores of actually being cartoon characters rather than real people. That movie isn’t reality – it’s a warped alternaverse where few listen to reason. The Dude keeps trying to explain that he has nothing, and wants nothing, to do with what’s going on around him and no one will have it. He just wants his rug taken care of. Because it really brought the room together.
Burn After Reading is very much set in the real world. There are no cartoons here, although a few of the characters come close to being stupid enough to qualify for animated status. They are all ugly, shallow, self-absorbed, insipid wastes of flesh, most of whom manage to find their way to terrible ends at the hands of their own greed, ego or lust. While the film occasionally lingers on Frances McDormand, it really is an ensemble film. You’re following a tangled knot of relationships that leads to the overarching story – the acquisition of a mysterious disk – that ultimately pans out to mean nothing at all. Like a child in the sandbox slamming trucks together for endless, violent amusement, so do the Coen brothers slam degenerate buffoons together to watch them interact and ultimately do one another in, one way or another. But there’s no point to it…other than the fact that there is no point.
In fact, the only likable characters are the CIA agents (played hilariously by J.K. Simmons and David “Sledge Hammer” Rasch) who act as a mostly truant Greek Chorus who only occasionally show up to scratch their heads and ponder the meaning of all the stupid mistakes and unnecessary violence that occurs during the film. In fact, the main reason I liked them was that they mirrored my own thoughts about the film and its characters, only seeming satisfied when we weren’t ever going to be troubled by one or more of them again. But you don’t care about these guys either– you just feel for their having to even commit brain cells to unraveling something that will never amount to anything. Because that’s exactly what you spend the film doing.
This film isn’t about telling a story, it is an exercise in developing characters we’re not supposed to care about. It is an exercise in developing plot threads whose ends we aren’t supposed to unravel. It is an exercise in putting some of the most talented actors in the world into one film and not doing their performances justice. On the positive side, everyone here immerses themselves in their characters. The only person whose performance actually grated on my nerves was Brad Pitt, who plays his ignorant gym rat character so far over the edge that it becomes sheer lunacy. He’s not just stupid, it is a wonder he can actually lace his shoes in the morning and operate a motor vehicle. I’m a huge fan of Pitt’s work and have never in my life breathed a sigh of relief when he has exited a film for good, but when I discovered that it was unlikely that he was going to reappear, I did in fact breathe easy. At least in the cases of Swinson and Clooney and McDormand and Malkovich, I hated them for who they were as characters - what they actively did to the people around them and how exactly they went about doing it. With Pitt, I just wanted to smack the shit out of him. And yes, I get that this is the point. But then again, I’m also not a fan of characters that deliberately exist to annoy the audience.
I just didn’t like it. While it shares the same kind of storytelling technique of Lebowski, this bears little resemblance to it. It feels more like Intolerable Cruelty and The Ladykillers. This had the same lack of love for its characters and the same level of humor to its jokes. But at least there I felt like I was watching something with a beginning, middle and an end. Here the end is SURPRISE! There is no end! And yeah, I get it. Life is messy and complicated and sometimes it doesn’t all tie up nice and neatly together. So in case that doesn’t happen to be a lesson you learn every day of your life that you wake up and poke your head out into the world, then perhaps this has a lesson for you. But as I happen to be a person that goes into movies because I want, for two hours, to exist in a world where it does all tie together and nothing is supposed to be superfluous…well, this just doesn’t cut it for me.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Massawyrm
Got something for the Wyrm? Mail it here.
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"It’s that look they give you. They way they begin to explain... as if to a child, as if you didn’t understand it. Because clearly, once you understand what they are doing, you’ll have to like it. But when you explain to them that you do in fact understand it and simply do not like it, they look at you with this befuddled expression, completely confused as if you’ve just spoken in some form of ancient Sanskrit. And then they try to explain it again." And call you a Rethuglican fascist.
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it says it in the article. Didn't you see that, Braffed?
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YEAH BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!
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Well clearly ur an idiot and must enjoy the current state of our country. As far as this review goes I suppose the Massawyrm likes color by numbers endings to movies and doesn't want anything that isn't simply cookie cutter. Who gave this asshole this job!
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Well Massywyrm, I think I understand what you mean. I saw it too, and can't argue with you too much. And as one of those Coen fans that you have to deal with, I think your observation with how to deal with them is funny and probably very true.
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I swear, this review could be the perfectly describing Royal Tenenbaums with only minor editing.
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And I'm glad I don't consider his opinion at all.
And hey, to boot, Im not even that big a 'Coen' fan.
Learn to review, you hack. -
I don't get the Fargo love, and while O Brother was pretty good, I didn't think it was great. So I feel you, brother.
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until I saw them at the Academy Awards, and saw how smug and smarmy those pricks were. And for the record, Atonement was the best movie of the year.
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Sep 12, 2008 10:04:23 AM CDT
Way to insert a political commentary into a non-political movie
by animorganimate
...and creating a problem where none existed before. Just what I expected from a Rethuglican fascist. As for this review, it makes sense coming from Massawyrm, and I don't want to say he doesn't get the movie, because I think he does (sort of), but that's why there are Coen fans and non-fans. Some get their movies differently, and therefore like them, while others take the movies at face value, while still getting the movie, but not 'understanding' the movie. I guess. I don't know. It's early. Still can't wait to see this movie.
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I love the Coens. But I guess some of their films are just a taste thing, not a good or bad thing. If you read this, good review as usual Mass, but also as usual I'll probably disagree with you.
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I've never been a big fan either. Loved No Country for Old Men but that had far more to do with the performances and loving the book. Fargo and Big Lebowski were ok, hate O Brother Where Art Though, it just annoyed and bored the shit out of me.
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It kicks ass.
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If you personally find the Coen’s work that distasteful, why even bother writing a review for their latest film? Is there any possible justification you could possibly have for writing this review, especially when you preface it with a lengthy, self-indulgent diatribe about how Coen fans are condescending assholes and how you won’t even visit this particular talkback because of how persecuted and angry they make you? By all accounts, you seem to want the negative attention and you seem to greatly dislike their movies, so by insisting to review this film regardless of those facts suggests that you want to create friction, animosity and controversy, which makes your little “sigh” and cries of persecution that much more transparent and ridiculous.
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Sep 12, 2008 10:10:26 AM CDT
Not liking artists because you dislike their fanbase is weak.
by stereotypical evil archer
I wish Massa would actually read this talkback, even though it won't change his mind.However my above statement is true and that is indeed the bias with which he frames this review.Weakest and most petty bias, but he has the most kick-ass avatars.
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Sep 12, 2008 10:11:41 AM CDT
I love the Coens for offering something different
by the gospel according to bastardface
You dislike a movie because it doesn't have likeable characters? Okaaaaaaay. The Coens tell stories. They don't tell plots. But to each their own.
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of what a Coen brothers film is about that I have ever heard. Like a Raymond Chandler story that doesn't come together. WTF? Either you really didn't understand what your friends were saying or you have some really dumb friends as Coen brother fans. Of course you're probably anti-Semitic as well (I kid, I kid).
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Sep 12, 2008 10:14:23 AM CDT
You said exactly what I've been feeling about their films
by zombieflicker
I think you need to watch Fargo again, because that was a pretty tight story (exept for the asian dude side story... what the f was that about anyway??). Other then that, I completely agree with you. No Country was the greatest until the end. I wanted my money back.
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Massa talks about many Coen flicks he likes. He sites Miller's Crossing and Blood Simple as movies he really enjoys. He doesn't say that he just has it out for the Coens, he seems to actually like a number of their films. I think he wrote a good review because he relates this film to other similiar works from the Coens so that you can gauge his opinion. Massa says he didn't really like Fargo and The Big Lebowski or this film, therefore you can use your judgement to decide that if you liked those other films you might like this one too. Massa just doesn't.
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is coz he's a dumb fuck redneck -- and proud of it!
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And ties together AT LEAST as well as in Chandler's handful of novels. Whoever told you it doesn't, doesn't know what they're talking about. Also, what the fuck's wrong with Fargo's ending? Fargo might be their most complete movie-- certainly far more accomplished and unified than O, Brother.
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It's nice to read a coherent, well-developed piece of writing on this site now and then, just for a change. So I don't have to feel guilty for thinking NCFOM was, well, just pretty good?
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I used to love the Coens - LEBOWSKI is number three in my top five ever by anyone - but the magic is gone. The last four films have done nothing for me, and I had a feeling this wouldn't be any different. I'll see it, because I keep hoping they'll get the magic back. But, I've been burned by these guys too many times now.
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His is just a sort of redneck pretension. And if that's how your friends explained The Big Lebowski to you, then your friends are fucking morons.
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His review is harsh and his comments about the fanbase still comes off as self indugent. He seems to hate more of their work than not so why even bother with this review? I'm sorry, but he comes off like a whiny cunt.
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Such trolls. Such hype. They make their fans feel smart, how nice.
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but still miles better than 'There Will Be Blood.'
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can completely understand why they're not to everyone's taste. The characters are often unsympathetic (even the protagonists) and the endings are often, shall we say, off-beat. BUT for me, the sheer crackle you get in a Coen's (Coens'?) script combined (ususally) with Roger Deakin's photography is worth the entry fee alone, and even when they do misfire - and I sincerely believe they've only done this once with the Ladykillers - their mis-fires are still 1000x more watchable than most other film maker's best efforts. That is all.
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...so there's a point where Brad Pitt gets taken out of the picture before the end, and the disk is meaningless. Spoiler warning would've been nice.
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Anyone who tells you the movie is not about Tom's unrequited gay love for Leo is plain wrong. That is all.
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No need to qualify your review, chief. Just spill it. Who gives a turd if you're a fan of the director(s) or not.
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Totally underrated movie.
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Change your user picture thing. That's the crappiest drawing I've seen all week.
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Nope. It's about ethics, as the first line of the movie tells you. Peddle your homo-propaganda elsewhere.
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"Well clearly ur an idiot" Shouldn't that be "Well clearly ur a idiot"?
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Sep 12, 2008 10:37:08 AM CDT
The rug tied the room together, not brought the room together
by savage lucy
If you did not like the ending to Lebowski, you completely missed the point of the movie.
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He explains why he doesn't like Cohen Bros. movies and is well aware that many film snobs feel like they have to like them. I usually either love or hate their movies. There isn't much middle ground. You just know that Harry and the rest will gush over this movie no matter what because it is the Cohens.
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There was a realism in that film that would have been cheapened by a Hollywood shoot-out or some fuller, unrealistic resolution. The ending caught me by surprise too but it also really forces the viewer to consider what they've just watched and what it all means. You could literally write a novel that merely discusses that ending and its implications but I guess some people really, really dislike it when narratives veer of the traditional trajectory.
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As we can already see, the "you just don't get it" Cohen fans *cough*whattheduck*cough* are already lining up. To all of them, may I say, we who do not worship at the altar of the Cohens are not a bunch of feebleminded simpletons who want all our movie stories spoon-fed to us and all our endings wrapped up in nice little pink bows. We are fully capable of understanding and appreciating movies with complex plots and open-ended conclusions and even movies that want you to figure some things out for yourself. You are the ones who "don't get it." We just don't like the Cohens' style of filmmaking! If you do, that's fine. We will make no effort to convince you that the Cohens are hacks (which they aren't - they clearly are very skilled movie makers). Now please stop trying to convince us that we belong in a special ed program if we don't like their movies. Thank you.
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You don't have shit to say!
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As much as I loved FIRE WALK WITH ME, the only great film he's made since WILD AT HEART is THE STRAIGHT STORY, and it's sad that the only way he could break up the monotony of his seemingly endless stretch of dual-identity horror movies was to make a G-rated Disney film. But, LOST HIGHWAY, MULHOLLAND DRIVE and INLAND EMPIRE are formless, recycled, overrated garbage. He hasn't had a new idea in years, and keeps remaking the same concept over and over. And, if EMPIRE is any indication, he doesn't even give a shit about cinematography anymore, which was part of why I used to love the guy.
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Period. End of paragraph.
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not liking the coen brothers movies? ok i can dig that if you legtimately dont enjoy the style. but to tear them down liek this is insulting. they are legends in the film indeustry. why i think you dont like them because of how much everyone else does. maybe theyve become too mainstream in your eyes and thats flawed to you...? maybe you just think they are overrated(some are dont get me wrong)? i have no idea what youre thinking but i know one thing for sure. the big lebowski is one of the best fuckin movies of all time, and youre are an idiot if you cant see the simple beauty of that movie. laserhead hit this it right on the nose, regardless of his punk interests ;). dont try to impress us with your words and 'insites'. are you saying these thigns because you need attention or because you wanna be different? also id like to say that Spandau Belly is an idiot because the royal tenenbaums was incredible.
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I don't worship at the alter of the Cohens. I just happened to really like the three films that this "reviewer" said he was happy with the endings of. And yes all three endings were not cookie cutter so my assumption is that he likes things black and white. Hell I will admit that the Ladykillers sucked. So blow me!
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BLUE VELVET is always going to be Lynch's greatest film.
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... made me like it. I really expected to hate that flick, but laughed my ass off at most of the jokes. Granted it wasn't their best, but still worth, in the very least, a rent.
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Besides being a beautifully shot and acted film MULHOLLAND DRIVE does have an actual point. It might take a little while to find it but it does all tie together (mostly)
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I have education and intelligent friends and family for that. I enjoy their films because they always offer something new, fresh, and often fun. Personally, I couldn't care less about consensus because I loved Ladykillers. Frankly, I think Coen bashing is just as hip as liking their film so either way, I guess we are all sheep. Personally, I think somebody like Wes Anderson deserves to take far more shit than the Coens; his work is one note and in my opinion mostly unwatchable.
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Mulholland took all the obsessions contained in Blue Velvet and worked them to much better effect. It's the apex of all Lynch's obsessions: women, sex, the image, parallel lives, way more accomplished than Blue Velvet. Lost Highway and Empire? Dream farts to me. Never had the urge to revisit them.
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that was an awsome movie bob, youre not alon on that one. who the fuck calls out david lynch? ok he lost his touch BIG TIME. but hes not trying to say his newer works are masterpieces. wild at heart, erasher head, BLUEVELVET for fucks sake? you come into this talk back and try to say that these movies arent a credible enough reason to consider him a geneous? well im here to shit on you for that. cuz thats what i do to fuckin idiots. sometimes you run out of ideas. that doesnt mean you stop trying.
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the first para was a declaration of a total lack of taste..thanks for not wasting my time, and im not wasting yours
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I remember my wife and I sitting in the car, talking about it for a few hours, after we saw it...really stuck with us for awhile. Oh, and the bum behind the dumpster still scares the living shit outta me.
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These Coen fellas get way too much credit
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Is a failed TV pilot, packed with recycled Lynchian themes and imagery and forced humor, and hot lesbian sex scenes thrown in. If it had been picked up as a series, it couldn't have played out the way the film did. The film was an afterthought, a successful attempt at recouping a financial loss, completely devoid of any new ideas from David Lynch.
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when you have to attack the character of people that like what you don't. I mean, I'm no Cohen apologist; they've made excellent movies, good movies, and a couple bad ones, but to say that people who enjoy their movies are somehow tasteless snobs who just 'want to feel like they're smart' is an admission of your own snobbery. As in, "If I don't connect with something, it must be crap and anybody who says otherwise is just posturing in order to appear intelligent." Morons can be snobs too. As Massa's reviews consistently remind us.
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He is right about their fanbase. I just don't like Big Lebowski & Raising Arizona. Everytime I say this, someone ALWAYS has to explain to me why I don't get it. I get it, I just don't care for it. They're not really funny, and they're not good at all. The best though, is after I try to argue that I don't like them, I tell them I really enjoy The Hudsucker Proxy.
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But I've enjoyed alot of their movies. Lebowski, No Country being the two I've most enjoyed. I've found myself in the odd position of having to explain the ending to NCFOM to alot of people. My question: why are people angry at 'Wrm's review of this movie? Someone earlier asked why he had a job? I thought his job was to provide opinion and analysis.
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Nope. He pitched it as a TV show in order to get funding to make it. Lynch scrounges his funds where he can, and tells the story he wants. That was the story he wanted to tell, and it actually is coherent and explainable, unlike his lesser efforts.
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Sep 12, 2008 11:02:49 AM CDT
Lebowski is a top notch comedy. Ladykillers is pure rubbish.
by stuntcock mike
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Is as far as I'm prepared to go with 'open - ended' endings. The C. Bros films I like follow that type of pattern. There are many of their film moments I love, but as complete movies go, I'm a very simple machine kind of guy. Some call it parochial. I usually punch those people in the throat, though.
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That some people are personally ripping on Massa because he dissed the Coen's. I like the Coen's, and I'll probably see this. But Jesus, peope, it's a review. Of course it's biased! It's his personal take on a movie. If you didn't want to hear what he had to say about it, you should have stopped reading when he told you he didn't like it. Man, oh, man.
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people who feel the need to 'explain' movies or books to people who don't like them rub me the wrong way. I've never tried to explain a Coen bros. movie to anybody and can't really see the point. You don't think Arizona or Lebowski is funny? Fine. Don't watch them. We probably won't be sharing jokes at a bar, as we've got different senses of humor, but to seek to 'educate' people so that their tastes align with your own is pretty retarded. What I gather from much of what he says is that Messa a)needs new friends, and b) is very defensive about being an idiot.
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its cool if you dont liek them. trust me its fine. but if after you say that you dont like them,you continue on to list all of the bad things about them, how are fans supposed to sit there and not say what was good about them?
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...though I loved Big Lebowski. That is the only one I loved, or even liked. So, I should probably skip this one too. I do think Massa's rant at the beginning was a bit odd, but hey, its all good.
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Well said!! Satire seems like a dying thing, and something the Coen's are very good at. A five year old can create potty humor -- there's no skill in it.
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Loved them both. Sue me.
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Massa, you lost all credibility after that review. I believe Harry's exact words were, "He's a retard." Yep.
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That would be The Man Who Wasn't There.
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i stopped reading your text. My main complaint here is this: Who Gives A Shit What Every Little AICN Staffer Thinks? Once Harry has posted his review, that should be the end of it. Well, maybe Moriarty. But we don't need a ton of reviews from everyone for every movie. If there must be more than two reviews, and there's no need for that, really, then they should end when the GUY WHO RUNS THE SITE posts his review. Like or hate his opinion, it's his site.
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and that is The Big Lebowski. Never did get all the hype. And I really enjoy the Coens. O Brother is probably in my top 10 of all time. Damn I love that flick (and if that doesn't tie everything together at the end... I don't know what doesn't!). But Lebowski never did it for me. That's the one that has pretentious fans. And I don't hate the movie, I just hate looks I get when I say its my third least favorite Coen film (above Ladykillers- also liked it- and Intolerable Cruelty- HATED it).
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by the standards he describes in his review, Fargo should be an easy hit for him. Characters the Coens LOVE... check, in McDormand's character... plot that ties together... check, its a simple fraud which ties the kidnappers, the police, and the family together... ending which makes sense and closes the story fully... check... everyone present and accounted for by the end of the film, all plot lines wrapped up. And while the film isn't PONDEROUSLY overt with its message, its by no means a head-scratcher. What's not to like?? And yes, Lynch's best film is Lost Highway, no question. Flame away!
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I actually think Fargo is their best film, and I liked its ending a lot. My main problem is that I always feel that the Coens create these charactes that they look down their noses at, and Massa's assessment that they don't like their own characters seems pretty accurate. I think you could easily apply this to Fargo, but I think that film and those characters have just enough charm and humour that you can forgive the snide. Now I like the Dude, Walter and Donny but comeone - every character in The Big Lebowski seems to be a stereotype without any subtelty whatsoever. Was this "the point" that I've missed? I don't know - with any other directorial team you'd have called them out on this bullshit a long long time ago. It seems the Coens get an enormous pass around these parts.
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Here is my review:
Suvudu Review of Burn After Reading -
http://www.suvudu.com/2008/09/review-burn-after-reading.html
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idiot. it's in the title. and someone probably also said this but 'No Country' was based on a book with an ending that yep, you don't get.
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Sep 12, 2008 12:10:48 PM CDT
You just don't get it. Let me explain it to you---
by the reluctant austinite
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I love them, and when people don't...FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK
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Because you think their fan base is pretentious, thats a good reason to have a flick? Don't you guys get sick of the same formulaic, unoriginal, tv remake movies or tired, played out, never-ending sequels? Being different doesn't guarantee that the movie will be good, but can you really say the Cohen films aren't interesting at all?
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Or better yet, in what sense should a writer "love" his character? I would think any writer would love every character he/she creates.
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Someone finally had the guts to say what the silent majority were all thinking.
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I agree that a lot of Coen Brothers' films are just not for me. Combining repulsive characters with no plot payoff just irritates me rather than interests me.
The Coens have made some great films - RAISING ARIZONA, BLOOD SIMPLE, MILLER'S CROSSING, etc. The first of those is one of my all-time favorites.
But they have also made plenty of what I agree are just jerk-off films that go nowhere - like FARGO, NO COUNTRY, and LEBOWSKI (which was at least redeemed by the Dude and the likable tone).
I also dislike the Coen fans who are evangelical in their belief that you, too, MUST agree that all Coen films have incredible depth, subtext, and intellectual artifice.
Wes Anderson has the exact same problem to a worse degree. At least the Coens actually - occasionally - produce a film with realistic and/or likable characters who actually advance a plot that is paid off at some point. -
Thanks for the in depth review of Coen Brothers Fans, but can we get more talking about the movie and less talking about your admitted bias against the films because you dont think you like the majority of their fans?
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alert the presses.
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Why was Blood Simple good? Because it had a twist or two? It was your basic love triangle that ends badly. Not funny at all, at no point did I wonder what happened or what was going to happen, no clever dialogue. Help me out, i'm not in the know.
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how does the big lebowski not "go anywhere"? there was a plot. the plot was resolved. does every movie need a deaper meaning? do you rely on cinema for your spiritual enlightenment? the big lebowski is about a simpleton who stumbles into a big mess of things. all he wants is is rug and to bowl. That IS the story. youre notbeing jerkked aroundjsut because you didnt reach some weird sense of personal gain or spiritual clensing. fuckin people and their hate for the dude. its hard to deal with people who miss the point on such an enourmous scale.
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Several years ago, Massa claimed that "United 93" was a must-see movie. I talkbacked saying I took issue with the term "a must-see movie", saying it was smug to tell me what movie I HAD to see. (I also, admittedly, said a few not-very-nice things about the Wyrm.) Sir Wyrm wrote back, called me arrogant, said I hadn't read the review correctly and told me to read it again. How is this behavior different from how the Bros' Fans act to him? Here, someone disagreed, and the guy was like, "No, let me tell you why you're wrong for thinking that way by directing you to the same argument." Huh. Also, for the record, "The Big Lebowski" is friggin' brilliant. Brilliant.
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BRILLIANT!!!
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But you can't deny that's a great piece of writing. Massawyrm, you articulated your opinion perfectly and you made me laugh - and that's what all film criticism should do. You're a great writer. The little cartoon signatures make you out to be an idiot (like a Coen character), but really you're not. I'm hit and miss myself with the Coens - LOVE No Country and it really IS hard for me to undertand any film lover that doesn't "get" that film. I also love Barton Fink, O Brother, Blood Simple - most of the B's. Lebowski doesn't satisfy me ultimately; as you say, even though I know what they were going for. I just wish they had made a stoner Chandler movie where the mystery sorta-kinda mattered. A left-field version of The Big Fix. Detective fiction is always ripe for subversive retooling. And Intolerable Cruelty was an unbelievable letdown, with one of the most beautiful vamps in film not utilized. Ladykillers did not thrill at all as a caper movie. The Man Who Wasn't There is downright mystifying. But I also agree with the people who say that even the Coens' worst films are better than 90% of other people's films. Because no matter what, they are always THEMSELVES. And they have a sick amount of talent.
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I didn't watch my brothers lie face down in the mud in Vietnam so you could rip on The Big Lebowski. I'm not a fan of all of the Coehn's work either. I liked Millers Crossing, The Big Lebowski, No Country For Old Men and Fargo and semi-enjoyed The Lady Killers but other than that, they aren't my cup of tea, but the Big Lebowski is one of the best movies every made. It's funny as hell. Obviously you're not a golfer.
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"You don't have shit to say!" Shouldn't that be "U dont have shit 2 say"?
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even with all you lebowski haters ripping on him.
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And fuck you and you and YOU too. I'm not going to apologize for loving these movies and I've never asked you to like them. And I've never cared whether or not you like them, or why. Fuck off.
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They might be all smart arsey but then they don't waffle on about their movies or genius.They might have made few stunkers (why would you even attempt to re-do the classic Ladykillers spinning a lot of graves there! and Hanks is Sooo SHit! but they have created a bunch of absolute classics so the odd slip is ok They might not be your cup of tea but at least they try something different and original and never bend to the hollywood wind in a world weary of Giant Sequels and Remake !Splosions
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But I hardly think they can do no wrong. Big Lebowski is one of my top five movies of all time because I adore the brilliant dialogue and wonderful characters. But the movie's pacing, especially in the latter half, is self indulgent and makes the audience restless. Some of their movies, like Miller's Crossing, say, and Oh Brother Where Art Though are masterpieces. Some of them are pretty mediocre. All of them though have something fresh about them that makes me smile because the quirky deviation from Hollywood formula is invariably refreshing. So basically even when they suck I think they're pretty good. But I still don't think they can do no wrong. they do it aaaaaaaall the time.
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...there best and ONLY truly great film is Hudsucker Proxy.
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You don't dig "absurdist theatre" and I for one won't try to convince you that you should. Different strokes bro...
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Never seen it all the way through.
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Lighten up, Francis.
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I fucking despise that high falutin horse shit that you're a fucking idiot if you don't GET Coen Brothers films. Give me a fucking break.
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... Massive Worm is just expressing his opinion on the film and those who created it. You don't agree, that's ok too. He ain't reading this anyway.
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American's hate anything they deem more intelligent than themselves. Hence our moron President.
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Yes, our president is an idiot...but not for much longer. Buh-bye, Bushie. Buh-bye. Don't history hit your ass on the way out.
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It woulda' been witty if I hadn't fucked it up.
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if you get it, dont get, or get it and just dont care thats cool...who the fuck am i to say different. i enjoy the Coen brothers films, well some of them anyway...i like parts of Fargo, parts of The Ladykillers, cant stand O Brother Where Art Though but i love Raising Arizona, No Coutnry For Old Men, The Big Lebowski, and Millers Crossing...havent seen Intolerable Cruelty...and if my instincts serve me well, im better for it.
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Not to be a cynic here Masswyrm, but you come across as someone who enjoys a formulaic film, one that is not that challenging. If you cite 'Blood Simple,' 'Miller's Crossing,' and 'Oh Brother Where Art Thou,' as the 'Ones everyone likes,' you obviously haven't lived in the same realm I have of film fanatics. The Coen movies that 'everyone' seems to like to me are 'Raising Arizona,' and yes 'Fargo' and definitely 'The Big Lebowski.' I suppose we'd have to throw 'Miller's Crossing' in there too, as I meet alot of people who want to mate with that movie, despite my reservations I have with some of the elements. I'll give you the 'wacky' label to films like 'Hudsucker Proxy,' and definitely 'Intolerable Cruelty,' and 'The Ladykillers,' but I've always look to them as a beacon of creativity no matter what they try their hand at. 'Barton Fink' is probably one of the greatest hollywood sendups I've seen. I even enjoyed 'The Man Who Wasn't There.' I mean this whole snobbery about guys like the Coens or Wes Anderson or Michel Gondry seems like such a wasted amount of emotion. No matter if some of their projects can miss the mark, they all represent an alternative field of great craftsmenship to the occasionally disappoiting vets like Spielberg, Coppola (for damn sure), they have never sold out to try to make a purely commercial endeavor. This Burn After Reading does seem to worry me, as I can't quite tell if it'll be another Intolerable Cruelty, or if it will be A Big Lebowski/ Raising Arizona type comedic stroke of calculated genius. Your review does seem to exacerbate those concerns to me, and I thank you for the heads up, but, that opening paragraph kind of put some doubt in the reliability of your point of view to their work. Then again, I think I argued the same thing to my friends who told me Intolerable Cruelty was horrible, and I turned out to be the asshole. Ah well, and oh yeah, I thought the ending to No Country For Old Men was brilliant in its execution, and it begged you to rewatch the film. Having done so several times, I'd say No Country is probably their strongest overall film. But that 'No Ending' comment is one I too have used on Hitchcock, an artist I think these guys are often trying to emulate, so it seems only fair to... Oh, forget it...
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nailed it. I can understand being a little upset at (SPOILER, though you must've seen it) the abrupt and anticlimactic demise of Brolin's character. But to say it's a bad movie for it is so fucking absurd. Llewelyn's storyline is just a foil...it happens to be a thoroughly engaging and thrilling foil though. I wonder if Mass would've like it if Brolin dodged the bullets Matrix style, Tony Jaa'd off the scenery, disarmed two gunmen before taking cover to hold off the baddies until (wait for it) Tommy Lee Jones can get there with a sawed-off shotgun and a cigar in his mouth muttering one-liners ("This is my country!"). Then maybe Brolin could've jumped out firing two uzis at once a la Woo. Pan the aftermath, close-up on the two bullets lodged in Brolin (one in his arm and one in his leg, thankfully non-lethal spots). Cut to Brolin crawling over to Jones to create a makeshift tourniquet for Jones' more serious wounds. Heartfelt dialogue: "Don't die on me." Some sirens. Fade to black. Fade in. It's a lively dinner scene at Lleweyn's girlfriend's mother's house. Jones makes an appreciative comment about the meal ("This is a damn fine roast.") They all laugh. Credits roll. MC Hammer jam (replete with dialogue samples) tops off the complete, wholly satisfying conclusion.
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And every fucking star in Hollywood who is dying to work with them? Those apologists? If you don't like the Coen Bros. it's because you don't get them, pure and simple. This isn't snobbery, it's just the fact. Hey, I don't get Woody Allen, but there are so many who do that I've got to think it's just my taste. To say a Woody Allen fan is an apologist, however, would make me a complete fucktard given his track record and continued support as a "genius" by fans and peers.
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careful man....the writers of Superhero Movie and Disaster Movie are taking notes as we speak.
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i enjoy Coen Bros. films for their semi-serious nature and semi-real-life situations...they tend to be wacky romps of dark humor and borderline cartoon characters...its the mixture of all these things that makes it the perfect coctail...well for ME anyway.
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Well done. The coup de grace was the "This is a damn fine roast."
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But its also true the Coen Bros. crowd is populated with elitist pricks that think their shit doesn't stink when it comes to taste in film. FUCK THEM. And FUCK SARAH PALIN!!
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If Massa is reviewing this film after already stating he typically doesn't like Coen Brothers films, does that mean I should submit a review of the latest Warfaggle 69k miniatures set?
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yes it does.
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"...a few of the characters come close to being stupid enough to qualify for animated status. They are all ugly, shallow, self-absorbed, insipid wastes of flesh, most of whom manage to find their way to terrible ends at the hands of their own greed, ego or lust."
So, there are liberals in the movie? -
Come on guys, don't you know how Massa operates by now? From saying he "won't read the talkback" to ripping apart Coen Bros. fans before even reviewing the movie objectively it is once again clear that his intention here is to incite as much talkback as possible. He's a knee-jerk reviewer. Maybe it's an ego thing or maybe it's to make up for his lack of intelligent critical thinking. Regardless, I look forward to Uwe Boll whipping his ass again soon.
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Yeah sure...liberals are know for greed, right?
Fuck off. Cunt. -
There's no other director or directing team that makes movies I can never predict whether I'll like or not...it's really weird. About half their movies I really like, the other half I can't stand. There's no halfway, either; I love them, or I hate them. Sounds like this one will be one of the "hates" on that list, but you never know.
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Pitt and Clooney are so quirky and good looking!! I would love to see them continue working!!
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Pitt....Clooney....continue working???....does a bear shit in the woods???
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"You don't dig 'absurdist theatre' and I for one won't try to convince you that you should. Different strokes bro..."
Amen.
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You are a pathetic, smug, little cockhole. FUCK YOU douchebag. For someone who purorts to be a film critic, your opinion is worth shit in a hat.
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Hey bud, you're probably the guy I have least in common with movie loving wise on AICN. I seriously don't see how you couldn't be incredibly pleased with the Coen's body of work in general. Perhaps you have to be a bit of an intellectual to be a fan of their works. (Har har, but I guess it doesn't hurt if you are one, har har again).
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"The trouble with "Burn After Reading" is not that its compulsive, unhappy, angry, greedy, disloyal, deceitful and hopelessly stupid personnel are unrecognizable or even unrepresentative, it's that they're not particularly funny." Ouch, babe. Double ouch.
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...the way you wankers collapse to your knees in tears over the idea that someone dare write a negative word about the Coen Bros. What the fuck is up with that?! Seriously. Who gives a flying fuck. Lame. Ass. Bitches.
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opinions are like assho....well, you get the idea. i mean, there are people out there that probably think The Dark Knight is the most god awful shit ever made...i may think they are crazy tasteless assholes for saying that, but i can do nothing accept it for what it is...just another opinion out there
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You are dead to me...
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opinions are fun aren't they, i think its great you can have an opinion about someone elses opinion and call it shit...thats entertainment and the "opinions" NEVER end when you think about it that way.
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Then I understand. Not like I'm defending that fucker. Fuck him. Proceed.
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i dont think he was referring to the ENTIRE Coen Bros. fanbase...just a certain group, and i can see where he is coming form on that. some "fans" are a bit too "fanatical" about there obscessions.
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....stop fucking posting. If wanna make a point-- take a stand the only way we TB'ers really can-- boycott the shit out of any future Worm TB's. Don't give him numbers. He fucking eats this shit up when he sees you guys go ape-shit over what he posts. Just ignore this fucker and give your posts to someone else. It may not seem like much, but I guarantee after a few months of virtually no traffic in his TBs-- he'll start to sweat. -
Naaaaaaaaww. You're fine.
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Have done everything you can on this talkback to prove Massawyrm's point for him. Well done.
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... absolutely not true. There are many Coen films I haven't liked and have given negative reviews. There is no one working in film today who gets a pass simply because of who they are. Either a film works for you or it doesn't.
In Wyrm's case, he doesn't like the majority of their work because of a certain attitude in their work or because of the way they love to do certain things. Seems fair enough to me. They make films with a very particular sensibility, and liking that has nothing to do with "getting it." It's simply a matter of whether that sensibility works with yours or not. -
Then why did Massa review it in the first place? You would think his life would be a lot more pleasant without devoting 2 hours of his time watching it, then however long it takes for him to write his review? I dunno. Fuck.
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I couldn't agree with you more about the Coens (although I dig Lebowski) and the whole idea that their movies are some profound, nonlinear storytelling nirvana. No, it's called cheating the audience.
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It is an ingenious way to kick start a TB, by calling the fans of the directors movies annoying right out of the gate. Kind of like asking an old person not to shit their pants. Yes, I said it. Old people shit their pants.
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Maybe I'll watch this on DVD eventually, but the preview is dreadful, particularly Pitt's overacting which makes Shatner look restrained.
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After such a dark movie the guys got together with their friends and family and had a goof. Massy didn't laugh. Some of you did. Nobody is right or wrong about that. It all depends on your sense of humor. I like random absurd humor. I find much of it hilarious. I figure I'll like this. Massy doesn't, and that's just as valid. It doesn't make him a moron or someone that doesn't get it. It just means he has different tastes.
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SPOILER. She catches him through good detective work (she had the read on Gunderson) and luck. That's how most cops do their job. Luck has as much to do with it as anything as someone slips up or a random clue breaks a case. And Mardge sums up the entire movie in the car with the perp. The Cohen's LOVE Mardge. The film is a mash note to her. She figures crime scenes in a second. When something doesn't seem right she keeps thinking about it till something sparks in her and she figures it out. She loves her hubby. She's folksy, warm, and genuinely can't figure out why people would want to do such things. The others look like idiots because to Mardge they are.
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Mass talks about the Cohen Brothers' masturbatory film making while writing a review which itself masturbates for several paragraphs in a recap of his revulsion of the Cohen Brothers' careers and fans. Just get to the review of the movie, otehrwise we really don't give a shit!
oh, and Carla Gugino is a goddess. Someone give her bett roles than this and the hot babe in Sin City! -
... it's Coens. No h. And Marge. No d. Did you just stop by the letter store and pick up a bunch of extra consonants you're trying to get rid of?
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... Gugino's not in this. Not sure what you're referring to, although I agree that she's ridiculously hot.
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Sorry, if I haven't established sufficient coen bros street cred. I'll try to work on that. how about "man who wasn't there"?
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I know I ragged on Massa hard for his Disaster Movie review, but I think this is an entirely legit review and I'm glad it's here. Unlike the DM review, there's a chance that some people are going to WANT to see this. And some people are going to disagree with his opinion. It IS a little pedantic to go on for multiple paragraphs in a preamble to the review, but obviously the preamble was necessary since despite it there are still some calls of "you don't get it" or "your friends didn't explain it right" or whatever. The dude's not into this particular style of Coens. That's fine. I'll see it and probably enjoy myself just fine. But at least I'll have been warned. I HATE The Man Who Wasn't There and I wish I'd read a dissenting Coens opinion on that stinker so I would've been warned...
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get it straight fellas
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I also think Lost is a great TV show, the war in Iraq is going really well, and I eat my own shit.
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I'll be the first to admit that I'm no Coen-ographer or anything, and I'm not saying that they stink. Like I said, Lebowski was fun. I'm really just annoyed by the whole No Country/There Will Be Blood lovefest from last year. I think both were really strong at least 2/3 and could have been really good movies, but then just fell apart. I don't subscribe to the idea that you can build up the audience, tell a great story, great mood, captivating characters, then just cop out on the final act, cheat them out of some kind of resolution, but then it's okay, because they meant to do that. Like Pee Wee Herman or something: "Ha, ha!! I meant to do that!" And we're just supposed to say, "Well, that ending really threw me for a loop. Not what I was expecting and couldn't quite follow it, but the fact that it's so perplexing is what makes it so great. Blah, blah, really makes you think, blah, blah, talking about with my friends at work, blah, blah." Sorry, not buying it.
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Well, let's consider the approach Hitchcock perveys in his filmmaking, often using what is so lovingly called the MacGuffin, this is a traditional 'thing everyone's after/or item that drives plot,' this is a dramatic tool used to push characters/story forward. Hitchcock, like the Coens, realize that it is the trip that is the experience and not the destination that makes the movie. You are right about resolution, I feel totally fulfilled even in his lesser endeavors, because often it is his style and execution that makes the film, rather than the story. Hitchcock often hits you with a sudden knee-jerk, out of the story moment. Take North By Northwest, one of my favorite films, our climax on the heads of Mt. Rushmore is phenomenal, but the transition from struggle, to happiness (Cary Grant pulling Eva Marie Saint 'I can't reach...') is instant, no Hollywood style play the moment out approach, he realizes, that's the end, here's the happy. Similar in a film like 'The Lady Vanishes' "Oh here I am dear..." End point now. Equate this style to a film like The Big Lebowski, a film our humble reviewer references. There is no big 'gotcha' ending. Same in No Country For Old Men...The Coens, like Hitchcock realize that viewers are in it for the adventure, and then they want out, whether or not it's an out they really want. The Coens have approached this gracefully at times...I still think Tommy Lee Jones' end monologue really does sum up the entire heart of the film...Fargo's sad, tragic ending, with one man's life destroyed, after he had given one last final hurrah to get out from the gutter, a task undertaken by our police officer Marge, and she's back to normal, talking with her husband over breakfast. Lives are made and destroyed in these films, and it's not a big traditional style wrap up we are often pushed by the 'studios' (To use a term of scorn). This idea of the 'no ending' was not a dig at Sir Alfred, merely a way to equate the style of the crime driven narratives that dominate both of their bodies of work and that includes the way they choose to unhinge us once again right at the conclusion, to take us off the rails, and not like that one guy who makes all those 'scary' movies about ghosts and superheroes and villages and fairies and global warming, these guys, Hitchcock and the Coens can both deliver an ending that can sideswipe you without giving you a Michael Bay hero pose from the protagonists. Because there are no heroes, only people in extraordinary situations that litter these artists' bodies of work, and when the credits roll, they will have to keep on living, be it uplifting or not. And this approach from Hitchcock and Coens is one that I will take gladly any day in the genre of crime, one that displays the lack of black and white, good and evil, separation in our society, over the mercilously formulaic and traditional wrap ups in the films of, oh, say, Tony Scott and yes Mr. Steven Spielberg.
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in every Coen Bros. talkback there's always at least one idiot who write something to the effect of, "I dont get the love for teh Cohen brothers, they're movies stink and shit!"no shit, if you can barely manage to construct a sentence using this crazy complicated device known as a KEYBOARD, and you can't even bother to spell correctly the last name of these multiple academy award winners...you shouldn't be worrying about the Coen brothers. start with maybe an SAT prep course.
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I mostly track with you, and Psycho is one of my favorite films. I'm even okay with a "not the destination, but the journey" kind of film. Heck, I dug Vanilla Sky (that's right, let me have it, everyone!!!). The thing with No Country is that everything about it leads you to believe that there is an actual three-ish act story, but then we're supposed to fall over ourselves with acclaim for the way the Coens gyped us. PS, it's been awhile, but I remember liking Fargo.
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It wasn't cheating anyone out of a resolution. The film posited from the VERY beginning that nothing and no one could stop Chigurh. He's a force of nature. He always prevails. The "resolution" of that film is ever present. I liked the choice they made because what happened was inevitable. Tommy Lee Jones' speech in the beginning about being a lawman and his father being a lawman and times having changed and whatnot was a warning: there are no heroes here. It's a credit to the character that despite knowing Llewellyn can't win we desperately want to see him win anyway.
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Sep 12, 2008 8:03:39 PM CDT
Universal and Focus Features Co-Producing Park Chan-Wook’s Thirs
by filmoholic
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/09/12/universal-and-focus-features-co-producing-park-chan-wooks-thirst/#comments
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i usually despise massa's review's, particularly the ones where he seems to be infatuated with the notion of being 8 years old... but this is one of the best reviews i've read on this site. the first couple of paragraphs articulate EXACTLY how i feel about coen movies... anytime i don't like a coen movie and someone tries TELLING ME WHY I SHOULD like it, ill just point to this review
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i noticed the coens smugness at the academy awards... they didn't feel like they needed to thank anyone... typical nerds who believe their own praise, just because they're a little odd they think that makes them geniuses
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Great, thanks for the heads up on what the film "posits." I'm not asking that Sugar Bear get justice, only that you don't completely skip over the resolution to the Brolin story as if that's a minor point we don't care about.
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thats dismissive to say that just because someone disliked the ending to no country, means that they don't like it when a story deviates from the norm... i didn't like it, but not because it was unusual, because i thought it was a stupid stunt that didn't really add anything to the movie other than to make it different... different just for the sake of being different... yes i know its in the book, but a good adaptation doesn't have to follow the original source scene for scene and i think they could have made moss's death just as shocking but still showed it on screen
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congrats, you just demonstrated the coen bro's fan condescention people are talking about... america hates any sign of intelligence explains this review?... i don't think they display much intelligence, sure they're not michael bay type fare, but their quirky 'innovative' tricks don't display what i'd call intelligence
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Okay, I'm bored. And I'm on board with the Wes Anderson hatorade. I liked Bottle Rocket, Rushmore was good, Tennenbaum's was amusing but bloated, Zissou was too much already, and I couldn't even finish Darjeeling. I get it: "Kitschy production design + emotionally distant and wounded young adults." Enough already. That guy is coasting on creative fumes.
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makes ma head hurt sumthin fierce, durnd coens always doin it in thar films
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Only a movie, and not a book. And about Texans, not interstellar empires. And heard of, rather than not.
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Stay home is blissful ignorance. Ponce.
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I know it was also a book.
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And Darjeeling is fantastic. Get your shit straight. And buy some taste.
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and we are so clever. Our cleverness has fooled you into thinking that our films are good.
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I'll try to buy some taste. Maybe head on over to ebay or something. Tennenbaums is good. Darjeeling is a huge snoozefest. Good night.
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those conan's are awesome. i love how the coan's really make their own cinema. no one does it like the kona brothers...
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For those of you complaining about the review and its content, many of you have either validated Massawyrm's criticisms of the Coens' rabid fanbase or need only look a couple of posts above or below to find it. I LOL'd when I saw all these people piping up, "BUT YOU DON'T GET IT!" Hilarious. Really, he just addressed that issue. Seriously, Coen fans, you're annoying; the filmmakers you idolize are not very far removed from complete hackdom; I don't enjoy their style of storytelling (in large part), and if you had a grain of intelligence, you'd respect my opinion as my tastes are different from yours. I don't need your "explanations" - I get it, and I'm underwhelmed. For those of you idiots who say, "Why would you review the movie if you don't like the Coens?" - first, you're idiots, but second, come on, what the hell do you expect from a movie reviewer? THEY REVIEW MOVIES ALL THE TIME. They go into a movie, watch it, and offer their thoughts as to whether or not it was any good so that you can decide whether or not it's worth your while. The larger question is, why did you bother reading the review? You are a Coen blowhard, and were going to watch the movie one way or another; no matter what was said here, you weren't going to be swayed.
This talkback has been a great validation for everything Massa said. -
Massawyrm claims he makes his living as a film critic. Do you think maybe he's lying?
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I see your point on No Country, but that is the rub though isn't it? That it is misleading? I mean, I definitely kind of hit a wall the first time I watched it, but then upon subsequent viewings it has actually opened up the film further. Yeah, Psycho is wonderful. And what's wrong with Vanilla Sky? I like that one too. And considering that Crowe followed it up with Elizabethtown, I'd say it makes the film look down right genius. Plus I still can't quite wrap my head around the fact that he did that back to back with Almost Famous, so, I think it will be a nice retrospective film in like a decade or so.
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There are times when idiocy must be pointed out; I did so at the earliest opportunity, which, sadly, was late, as you noted.
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Their worst movie is tons better than most movies.
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john hughes?? where'd that come from? is that post meant to be directed at someone else or are you again showing your failure to accept that some people think some coen movies just aren't smart or funny... cos if we don't like it then it must be because our small brains can only handle the depth of john hughes?
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i didn't put words in your mouth or question your intelligence for liking coen movies... extend me and others the same curtesy hey?
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Unlikable characters, no true hero, lying and cheating, fucking each other over. I'm surprised Massa wasn't bothered by the "experimental storytelling" of Blood Simple where at the end M. Emmett Walsh is dying from bullets fired by Frances McDormand and realizes she has no idea who he is, in fact she thinks he is her husband who he knows is actually dead. These types of stories have been a Coen/Cohen/Cowan/Co-in trademark since the beginning. It's true that some of their better ones have characters you care about more, but that's not a requirement for telling a good story.
I do think this is one of their weaker ones though. It's actually alot like Blood Simple in that all the humor comes out of the stupid mistakes and misunderstandings and out of the big mess it adds up to in the end. But the difference is this doesn't have that foreboding atmosphere, it feels like a lowbrow comedy the whole time but without very many laughs. At least on a first viewing. Still worth seeing though, I will explain it to you afterwards.
Also I got a question for Mr. Dickblood if he's still around. Since you have been acting as the comedy police with your bold stance against Apatow and the Coens I was wondering what comedies you like other than I believe you mentioned Kangaroo Jack was a favorite at one point. just curious. -
In other news, I love some of Coens' films and hate others.
Do I not "get it"? -
Personally I adore THE BIG LEBOWSKI - it's a film that at first sight looks inconsequential... but somehow isn't. Somehow it's way deep. But - also personally - I thought that with OLD COUNTRY there was much LESS than meets the eye.
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Sep 13, 2008 6:33:19 AM CDT
As time goes by, my dislike for Wes Anderson multiplies.
by stuntcock mike
And it's pronounced The Coin Bros.
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Wasn't that the Coens'?
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All right, truce. No Country was goodish, but the expectation bar was so high, coupled with all the Kohen Bros worship that I just felt a little disappointed. Nice little film, offbeat third act. But stop acting like its one of the great masterpieces of all time. Again, I'm cool with the bad guy "winning"--that's not exactly an unprecedented cinematic event. I'm cool with double-crosses and things going awry (Vern). I was just disappointed with the way they handled Brolin's exit. Felt like a gimmick and a cheat, rather than some great narrative risk. But okay, uncle, already.
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...A walk, not a run, from the Cohens. They fell flat on their fucking face with the one two whollop of Ladykillers and Intolerable Cruelty, but got right back up on their feet with a smart adaptation. Now their first post No Country effort from an original script turns out to be, well, weak. But not bad. Just not as good as their best. Thats a promising sign. I hope they can keep improving, get back into the game like they used to.
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Thing is, I DID care about the Old Country characters. Right down to the old dude in the gas station who doesn't know the coin flip is for his life.
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Immediate banning for life anybody who spells it "Cohen," followed by some internet private detective work to find the basement where the person is living and filling said basement with cement. P.S. I didn't like the ennnnddddiinnnng to L'Eclisse.... I just can't get INTO the CHARACTERS that Antonioni puts on the SCREEN....
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Harry says he wants to encourage all of you to vote, so I thought I'd pitch in, now that this is a political site.
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I love David Lynch and (most) of his movies... but I'd say the difference here is, Lynch drops you into bizarro-world from the first frame, so it'd be foolish to expect a tidy ending. The Coens (whom I also mostly like) are more likely to sprinkle on some weird dust on a plausible story and then pull the rug out at the end. FWIW, Blue Velvet's my favorite, and it's got a pretty tight, conventional plot.
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Because it's time somebody in one of these talkbacks finally takes a stand against this guy.
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They can make absolutely brilliant films - Barton Fink, Blood Simple, Fargo, No Country etc - but some of their shit is just relying on "cutesy" bullshit and contempt for their audience and their material. I hope this one isn't like that.
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I liked this movie, but I get why some folks don't. bfd.
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Getting slammed in TB is what the cohen bros. get for expressing themselves artisticly. How smug can these guys be? Making movies that don't have singing highschoolers or fire crapping toaster ovens? Please, where is the entertainment value in viseral character exploration with dashes of social commentary? I will have no more of this "Man Who Wasn't There" give me Big Mama 3 through 8. Back to back.
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Everything since has gotten steadily worse: one-note characters and cutesy set designs and crappy, sentimental stories. Bottle Rocket is brilliant, though.
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Coen bros can express themselves artistically all they want, although I think their next project should be a Miley Cyrus vehicle or an action-comedy where Martin Lawrence has to go deep cover as a white guy.
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I like Rushmore better, but Bottle Rocket was good. I think Tennebaum is either loved or over-backlashed. I think it's pretty good. Hackman is good. Stiller is trying too hard to be dramatic. Owen Wilson: first rate. Gwyneth Paltrow: pretty good. Indian chauffeur guy: a triumph of the human spirit.
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His characters become cartoons the further in his career you go. Rushmore lacked some kind of basic unity in the story, which Dignen provided in Bottle Rocket. I don't love Anderson or hate him, and I like Rushmore. But Tennenbaums and Aquatic were pretty bad. The brother/sister/suicide shit was terrible and contrived and didn't belong in the movie. Loved Hackman as Royal, though. By Darjeeling I'd lost interest in him as a filmmaker.
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It had a frickin ending!!!!!!!!!! Oh, but it would have been so much better if Gene Hackman just disappeared after the wedding/accident scene and then they jump to Danny Glover and Anjelica Houston in a dinner sipping coffee and talking about African debt relief.
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It might have been cool if they had been in a casserole or something. not really my bag, but whatever
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All right, I think we agree more than disagree, and as fellow maverick washington outsider, I'm committing to reaching across the aisle with you to bring this country the change it needs. I do think the unifying theme of Tennenbaums was Royal and basically the idea that every dysfunction this family is going through is at least partly the fruits of him being such an s-o-b of a father and husband. So, the unifying theme is, in spite of what a mess he's made of his and their lives (not that they're not also certainly responsible), can they come together and try to make something with the time that's left--as a family and as individuals.
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I sure just made that sound like a Hallmark hall of fame movie.
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Jim Belushi?!? I'm there dude. You doubt me, I have three words for you: According to Jim!!! You still doubt me? I've got one hyphenated quasi-word for you: K-9. You still!! doubt me, I've got three more words: Red Frickin Heat.
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So some guys make movies that are kind of weird but usually in an entertaining way and some people really like them and that's so offensive to talkbackers? You guys are just looking for new reasons to talk shit. I guess that's maybe AICN in a nutshell these days.
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they find in their favorite movie when confronted by a hater, it takes a pretentious snob to pull out the "I know the names of the director's first two movies and the story archetype this one departs from so I get it" bullshit. You are a bitch and hating on the Dude and Walter should be automatic grounds for having the "smoke 'em if you got 'em" tagline stripped from your honky ass.
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Burn After Reading sucked, Wyrm's review of that movie was pretty spot on, but it will be impossible for any prospective theatre goers to learn anything from the review since it was prefaced with hate-through-fanbase of The Big Lebowski, Fargo, and Raising Arizona, all three cinematic miracles.
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I liked the characters. and I think the Coens did too. I especially liked Brad Pitt. They were pretty realistic and weren't Hollywood cardboard cutouts. I guess real people with terrible personality flaws just aren't good enough for some people. How do you have real relationships? No one is perfect; in fact, there are a lot of wonderful people in the world who do terrible things. and I agree with Beaks that the obvious message of nihilism is not the real message, and that there is something else going on, which seems to be the case with all the Coen movies. I've never seen them as hopeless nihilists, but as artist aware of the nihilistic image the world presents to us. Doesn't mean that our perspective of the world is true. A poet's job is to skew that perspective so maybe we can catch a few hints of the world we can't see. And the Coens are a couple of the best poets of cinema.
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I can accept that Tennenbaums just wasn't my thing. That it was an ensemble character piece and not a plot driven movie even though it had several plots, none of them had any real meaning for me and the movie just didn't feel like it had focus.But with Life Aquatic Anderson just really fucked up. He had the setup for what would've and should've been his most plot-driven movie. Just a crusty old sailor who wants revenge on a shark. A pure adventure story. But once they brought in Owen Wilson as the estranged son and then Cate Blanchett, the whole thing got bogged down in shitty subplots that Anderson had already done. More intergenerational love triangles, more upper-middle class psychological clusterfuckery, and Steve Zissou just turned into Mr. Tennenbaum part two because all these subplots just served to get him to say arrogant and biggoted things. The stuff where they fought pirates was fucking great, and same with the part where they looted Goldblum's facility, but the movie was just all over the place.I haven't seen Darjeerling Limited, though it looks incredibly racist and from what people say it is.
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I take no issues with problems he has with the Coens' work or this film in particular. However, I'm pretty bothered at how he views his personal dislike for the Coen fanbase as being "more important" than any issues he has with the films themselves. What kind of backwards logic is that? How could a dislike for certain people ever be more important, especially for a critic.
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I remember the good old days when you actually reviewed a movie and didn't spend three paragraphs at the start pre-emptively defending your position by attacking the fanbase.I do enjoy the whole "provoking the fanbase and then telling them that you don't care enough about their opinions to not respond despite the fact that you obviously do or else youwouldn't make suck a big deal out of it" tactic, though.
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The ending is irrelevant to the movie. Did you actually care? The movie is farcical and absurdist. It replaces Marlowe with a stoner and his Vietnam Vet friend in a Chandler novel.
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Don't know why, maybe he was just so dumb I couldn't help it, and killing him off seemed so mean spirited that it kicked me out of the movie (well almost, the second killing was what really put the nail in this coffin). Very off putting, all in all. Simmons's reaction what had happened to Cox at the end was the best in the whole fucking movie.
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Sep 14, 2008 10:19:56 AM CDT
No talkback for ye olde men
by elvispresleehorsleyharveyoswaldoprahwinf
"They are all ugly, shallow, self-absorbed, insipid wastes of flesh, most of whom manage to find their way to terrible ends at the hands of their own greed, ego or lust."
Wait, I thought Stone was making W? -
Start writing reviews instead of rants or relocate to myspace. Thanks.
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The other 5% was the resolution... BUT I just thought of the movie as a violent episode of Seinfeld, and that seemed to square just about right.
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Wow I completely agree with Mass here. He described their fans to a tee. The only Coen brothers film I liked was Big Lebowski (which truely is one of the funniest movies ever made) NCFOM was so completely overrated. The performances were pretty good, but the movie as a whole was horrible. TWBB was soooo much better in every conceivable way. Dont even get me started on how these Fuckheads acted at the Oscars. I wasnt excited about this movie from the previews (dont think it looks funny at all) and this review saved me from seeing it.
P.S. Mass' description of Coen fans is spot on for Wes Anderson fans as well. I actually think they are worse than the Coen fans
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