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Nikki Finke has quite the scoop on SPIDER-MAN 4 (and possibly 5)!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Yes, I was severely disappointed with SPIDER-MAN 3 just like 98% of you guys were. It's one of those movies that just seemed to be off-key, missing every note by a few seconds.
But you gotta give Sam Raimi credit for what he did with the first two. Of the three films, I like SPIDER-MAN, but I love SPIDER-MAN 2.
According to Nikki Finke at DeadlineHollywood, Sony has locked in both Raimi and Tobey Maguire for SPIDER-MAN 4. There are a few reasons this could happen like this. Remember both were walking away from the flick.
They either had dumptrucks of money backed up to their door or they were both using this as a means to get something more out of the series. Maybe that something more is money, but I'd like to hope that Raimi is would decide to come back only if he's offered more freedom. We all know Venom was forced on him and I think that is what primarily derailed Spider-Man 3.
Then there's the third part to all this: Jamie Vanderbilt's screenplay. Maybe it's fucking amazing. Maybe that got both Maguire and Raimi to reconsider walking away from the series.
Finke's source also tells her that Sony is seriously considering doing 4 and 5 back to back in order to ensure the same creative team and save on costs. A release date of 2011 is looking likely for Spidey 4.
As far as the villain, the source wouldn't say, only that when we hear who the villain is, we'll know who'll be playing it. Lizard anybody?
Anyway, I love the idea of a fresh set of eyes on this series, but Raimi has earned one slip up... at least for me, so I can't complain if he comes back, especially if he has a little more power to do what he wants.
I'd love it if the next flick is Lizard and he shoots it a little like he shot his horror movies. We saw a glimpse of that in SPIDER-MAN 2 during the Doc Ock operation scene. Imagine if that style was done throughout the film.
What are your thoughts?
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i'm luke warm
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Surely they wouldn't carry on the legacy without another Oscar-worthy performance from the world's sleepiest snaggle-tooth? (I'd still bone 'er)
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NUFF SAID.
Spider-Man 3 wasn't nearly as bad as fanboys make it out to be.
Bring on Spider-Man 4, but for fuck's sake, don't do it without Raimi! -
Bascially the villain that should have been in 3 if the fanboys and idiot suits hadn't forced Venom on him.
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The Jaws 4 storyline ignored Jaws 3. Look how much of a classic Jaws 4 became? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Raimi needs to make Evil Dead 4 already.
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Personally, I'd like to see a new director take a shot at the franchise. How about... Mikey Bay! I'd love a Spidey/Transformers crossover. Megan Fox can play Black Cat.
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I don't think a series ever went quite to shit like the Jaws series did.
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Spider-Man 2 is decent, but I think 2 is the one that misses each note by a few seconds. The other two feel like train wrecks to me (3 more than 1 of course). That said, I'm a huge James Vanderbilt fan (Zodiac is absolutely amazing, and I'm a Basic apologist), so I'll definitely be standing in line for this one (even though I'd appreciate a new director/star).
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Word on the street is that Raimi and Co. have been working on the script!
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According to Finke's source, no contract has been worked out yet with Dunst, but Sony wants everybody back.
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For the Fantastic Four's fiftieth!
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Three-way Lambada!
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the casting of Macguire and DUnst were bad from the start and Raimi, while adept at atmosphere just has no fucking idea how to pace these films or create a palpable world around them. There is no reason a Spider man film can't be every bit as good as the Dark Knight, just with a lighter touch. But that is never going to happen with this creative team in place.
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Spiderman 3 is an absolute turd. I'll give this 4th one a chance, but my expectations are very low.
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What was that sound Spidey made for Electric Company?
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It was fucking unwatchable from start to finish. Almost as bad as Batman and Robin. Saying that it barely missed hte mark is implying that Peter Parker dancing down the street while pointing at women and making them swoon had any potential even in concept. it's fucking stupid even on paper. instead of a realistic personality change, Raimi just made it unbearably silly. Maybe Venom was pushed on him but he killed hte franchise in return. There is absolutely no way the series has anywhere to go after that horrible movie.
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The Lizard is a heavy hitter, one of Spidey's best villains because he doesn't want to hurt his friend Dr. Connors. Bring in Kraven to hunt Lizzie at the end of Spidey 4 and let the free for all begin in Spidey 5. I'll be there!
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a whole spider-m,an shot like the operation scene, no thanks. how about shooting it like the rest of spidey 2.
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But I guess I can let Raimi redeem himself for the awful part 3. I can give him the benefit of the doubt based on his track record, which is made up almost entirely of decent to fucking awesome movies.
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I'll touch on the later first. Kirsten Dunst is ok looking at best and fucking ugly at worst. She is the weakest link in the Spidey cast and should be replaced.
As for Venom, I think Raimi screwed the pooch on that one. Spidey fans wanted Venom and Raimi wanted sympathetic bad guys. Sorry, but go all out and give us a bad guy who is bad. Venom is the most recognizable villian for Spidey and deserved to be in a Spidey flick. Sadly he got his shot in a very shitty movie that was filled with way to much other stuff.
I am with most people I really enjoyed Spidey 1&2, but I was very disappointed in 3. I was actually looking forward to Sony bringing in a new director who actually wanted to do a Spidey movie with Venom as the bad guy and do it right. Now we're stuck with more misunderstood bad guys that we should feel sorry for. I'll check the flick out for sure, as Raimi is a great director normally, but I will always want a good Spidey vs Venom flick that Sam will not deliver. -
Won't Maguire be like, 90 at this point?
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I don't know why everyone criticized the Spiderman 3. It was good.
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By 2011 we could just have a reboot that actually tells the story right this time. And by RIGHT, I mean GWEN STACEY!
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All signs pointed to Ari Avid. If Venom had to make an appearance, they should have given him a 2 movie arc. Did they not think a 4th one wasn't coming down the pike? These things are cash chows. And Topher Grace doesn't have anything better to do. They got a great actor and character in Sandman and he was woefully given too little screentime. Still, it wasn't a horrible film, just wasn't as good as the first two.
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SUCKED BALLS!!!
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but he didn't derail Spider-Man 3. The rest of the movie was big train wreck in its own right. Every scene ended with all the characters crying
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i think more freedom might be bad
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In the fourth film, Parker realises that his spider-like powers have evolved beyond the ability to play jazz piano just like a spider, and now he's struggling to control them as he's forced to perform Debussy and Beethoven at Carnegie Hall as an outlet. It is at this stage that M.J. realises that, just like Brundle, he's becoming TOO MUCH like his namesake.I sometimes get the feeling (and I don't know any insider gossip) that the third film basically involves Raimi throwing his toys out the pram because of studio influence or something. The worst thing I could say about that film as I was leaving the theatre was that I wasn't too bothered about seeing any more Spider-man movies. Which is a shame. Whatever he does this time, I hope it's something new because the special effects (and spidey's abilities) didn't seem to be a step up for the third film, which I think contributed o my feelings about being a bit fed up with the franchise.
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I SO want Marvel to own all there properties It time for a Reboot Marvel style.
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i definately have my problems with this movie, MAINLY because it seems like one big cluster-fuck of a flick...just too many characters, situations, and dumb shit all wrapped up into a burrito with extra cheese and that my friends gave me diarrhea.
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he's a good character. too bad Raimi didnt get it.
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He sure seems like the logical next step. And he'd make a good opponent for some good fight scenes (probably very much as creative as Spidey and Doc Ock's train fight in S-M2).
And, of course, we'd have the great backstory of a scientist who's zeal for his pet-project turns him into a monster and into Spider-Man's enemy throughout the movie. But, since Spider-Man is in some way connected to this scientist, he can't really kill him, even though he'll probably die in the end. Wait... doesn't that sound familiar? Oh, yeah, it's already been done two goddamn times already. -
Those effects were pretty great and the sequence quite eerie and poetic. Probably the best scene in the film.
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...I think saying 'Spider-Man 3' was "off-key by a few seconds" is being VERY generous. You can't just miss scenes like the now-infamous Revenge Jazz Dance ("now dig on this!"), Venom entreating Sandman to "kill the spider" in some darkened alleyway, or Harry's butler making a last-minute revelation about Norman Osborn's stab wounds. They're either bad ideas or they're not, and they were very bad ideas indeed. I liked 'Spider-Man 2' quite a bit, and I liked the humorous touches like using "Raindrops Are Falling On My Head," but for whatever reason -- either his heart wasn't in it, it was too rushed, whatever -- 'Spider-Man 3' was just bad.
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I didn't hate Spider-Man 3, though it was not up to the quality of 2. The first one was pretty flawed as well, but it got the spirit right. At any rate, I'm glad to see Raimi and Maguire back. I too think the team earned another shot and I look forward to some good old-fashioned comic book action!
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For those who don't know what he's talking about when he mentioned the horror movie angle in the Doc Ock scene, please see the Evil Dead trilogy. Saw those movies before SM and when my friends and I saw SM in the theater our jaws were on the floor. I admit it's not as awesome if you haven't seen Evil Dead, but it still is pretty cool.
By the way, Kirsten Dunst is still little Claudia from Interview with the Vampire to me. That's probably why her teeth always make me think she's got fangs concealed behind those lips of hers... -
with one less villain because all the villains were shortchanged, saving a villain for spiderman 4. and they could have peter parker and mary jane break up, because their relationship was painfully boring, saving a possible reunion for spiderman 4. and...oh, what's the point? they're going to make this spiderman 4, and we'll see not with excitement, but because we're bored on a sunday afternoon.
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IMO tacking on Venom in Spider Man 3 was just a little too much...the straw that broke the camels back maybe??? well THAT and a few other things (YES the dance sequence was cheesey...YES the omelet cooking "twist" sequence was even cheesier, and yes...James Francos goblin outfit was a little ESPN Extreme Winter Game-sey) but to ME it was adding Venom that gave it that extra BLOAT.
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biggest mistake of the franchise.
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the "death" of spider-man. otherwise, i don't really give a fuck.
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Sep 05, 2008 4:57:34 PM CDT
i have a feeling the Raimi's excesses were as much to blame
by bmacsmith
as Venom being forced on him.
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There were a lot of problems with the third movie so I'm not even going to get into it. But, I kind of think the first two were derailed by just one or two poor choices. For instance, wouldn't Spiderman have been a better film if Mary Jane had died. And if Spidey hadn't been saved at the end by friendly New Yorkers. It was sweet right after 9/11, but it severely dates the movie and reeks of jingoism. Speaking of which, I would have loved to see him draw a net between the towers like he was originally supposed to. In Spidey 2 my big problem is that Doc Ock turns into a good guy at the end. Blah blah blah redemption blah blah blah. It sucked and you know it. I would have loved to see them actually duke it out while the reactor started exploding.
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I have no idea why everyone hates Spiderman 3 so much. It doesn't make any sense to me. I liked it. I know everyone seems to hate it, but it was still very enjoyable. Not as good as the other two, but still a hell of a lot better than most superhero movies.
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It worked so well for the Hulk. Haaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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Carrion/Jackal but would appreciate it more if they just said 'Fuck it' and made the biggest damn comic-book movie...MAXIMUM CARNAGE. Carnage played by Ben Foster, of course.
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The big problem in Spiderman 3 was, I felt like Raimi didn't have anything new to say. He tackled the Spidey MJ love story in 2. Most of 3 felt like a rehash. Either kill her or let them be happy. Also I want to see a movie with Mysterio in it.
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on any level. the best that can be said is that it was slightly better than batman and robin. slightly.
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Should never be allowed near another Spider-Man production after that last fiasco. A lot of people consider SM3 to be one of the worst comic book movies ever made.
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Actually he always fucks up on a part 3 maybe he can make an awesome part 4 film.
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they can try to get Jared Leto because they're both interchangeable emo-fags
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Sue me. Franco was great. The dance seen was funny and in character with the film Peter. The ending was rushed. People complain about Venom, but really, he was better fleshed out and arced than Sandman was. Sandman just... leaves. 4 & 5, stick with Gwen and forget Mary Jane. Neither Spider or X-Men 3 were the franchise destroyers people make them out to be (like Batman and Superman 4). And they were both better than Bat and Supes 3!
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Why does everyone think that Spider Man 2 was good? The only good parts were the ones that involved Octavius. Spiderman 2 was saturated with 2 much Mary Jane, and way to much Aunt May. I say let Brian Singer direct the next Spiderman. Sam Raimi is a fucking overated hack.
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And that pervert that tries to seduce Mary Jane. Can't remember his name.
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We geeks are a dramatic crowd. Spiderman 3 is certainly not one of the "masterpiece" "great" or "good" comic book films, but it doesn't constitute the same grade A garbage as Batman and Robin, Fantastic Four, Catwoman, Blade Trinity, Elektra, Fantastic Four 2, Ghost Rider, Hulk, or Spawn. It sucked for a Spiderman movie though.
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suck too.
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Maybe they should switch directors with each sequel, that's the only way to ensure that the franchises continue to grow in the right direction.
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Fantastic 4, Blade 3 and Ghost Rider
It's better than stuff B&R and Catwoman, but I can't see how it could be in any way better than F4, Blade 3 and GR. All of them had bad acting, bad dialogue, a bad story and the only "positive" thing that can be said about all these movies (including SM3) is that they had good special effects and fight scenes. That's about it, though. -
I love all of the Spider-Man flicks about the same but prefer 3 to 2 because in 2, Peter hardly ever says any funny shit like Spider-Man is known for. (Part 1 got this aspect right in spades with him spouting shit like "Did your husband make that for you?") Also Doc Ock was a complete wuss. Having his tentacles control him was totally bogus. 2 also suffered from a slack pace. 3 had a kitchen sink quality to it that I liked. There was almost TOO MUCH stuff going on (a complete inverse of Part 2 which had about zilch going on in the plot dept.)and it fit in perfectly with my ADD addled brain. Sure, Venom was shoehorned into the final third of the movie, but so was Two-Face in TDK and no one complained about that. God, I always bitch about idiots who call The Dark Knight TDK like it's fucking ROTJ or EFNY or something (It's not). Now I am one.
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how people can justify Spidey 3. Does anyone remember how they changed the entire history of SM by having Sandman kill Uncle Ben and the have them cry together on a rooftop and then have Sandman float away into the wind? Are you fucking kidding me?!?
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They already got a good writer on Spider-Man 4 now to get a good actor or at least a good Peter Parker one who is sincere and has a personality, Mary Elizabeth Winston as Mary Jane and lets just bring in a new director as well, Spider-Man 3 was so bad that when I think back on it I think there's gotta be a change. I think Sam Raimi is great and made some cool films but to make a film as bad as spider-man 3, somethings wrong. I think Alfonso Cuaron would be a cool director he can do lighter fare like Harry Potter but still be dark just not overly dark cause Spider-Man is not Batman
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PLEASE Sony, I'm begging you: Sell Spider-Man's movie rights back to Marvel for a fair price. Let them include Spider-Man in the Marvel Movie Universe. You had your shot, and you fucked it up. It's time to return the property to the company that made it work for several decades in print and animation.
Make your own wall-crawling superhero, Sony. Let Spidey Go!!!
Same goes for FOX and the X-Men movie rights. Let them go home to Marvel! -
Hey, some guys do football picks. Me, on the other hand ...
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Fuck Russel Crowe, I want Gerard Butler or James Caveziel.
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Seriously, putting Spider-Man 3 on the same level as Batman and Robin is fanboy hyperbole in its purest form.
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And I liked 1 and LOVED part 2. And yes Transformers is a much better film then Spider-man 3 and Transformers would not even come close to being on my top 20 list that year so I'm not saying its great, just that Spider-Man 3 is that BAD.
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Being my favorite comic book character it actually hurts to watch SM3. They need to keep it simple, get rid of the gremlin (dunst), and for god sakes give spidey more humorous one liners. Lizard would feel like the right direction. Raimi needs this to be SM2 quality and nothing less.
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then completely reboot and integrate Spidey into the current Marvel movie character universe (Iron Man, Hulk, etc.) Problem solved. Raimi doesn't deserve another chance.
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bad acting, bad script, shit characters, cheap b-movie tricks like having a butler explain to Goblin Jr what really happened and rewriting the first one to say. Sandman shot Ben. it really is one of the worst Superhero movies ever. its that bad. its true. and Two-Face was certainly not shoehorned into TDK. he was central to the plot! he was the human representation of every thing Joker and Batman were fighting over.
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I have more respect for Batman and Robin than Spidey 3. Yes, it is that bad.
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...so was SPIDERMAN 2. OH YES! I know that just blows your fucking mind but it's the truth as far as I'm concerned. (And TRANSFORMERS has nothing to do with that particular suckiness.)
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...you know what else is "so passe"? The tired 'self-loathing geek' routine. You're right, Spider-Man 3 wasn't the worst movie ever made; it wasn't a disasterpiece. But it wasn't good. It was un-good. And it had more fundamental problems than missing a few beats. The sheer volume of hatred might make it seem like it's getting unfairly maligned... and maybe I would even agree that it is by SOME people, but more than anything else I think it's just that almost everyone agrees they didn't like it. I'm not saying Raimi is a hack or he should never direct a never movie or whatever, but I certainly hope that Spider-Man 4 is a step up.
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While Spiderman 3 wasn't as good as 1 and 2 it still was on the same level. It wasn't the disappointment that X-men 3 was.
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That makes no sense. Which do people find worse, the Spiderman crazy dance scenes or the Bumblebee pissing scene? They're both equally ridiculous and jarring. Also Gayformers? Please, have a little dignity.
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Vanderbilt is a great writer. I would love to see Mysterio. Yet the Lizard would be great to. I think let Sam do what he wants. I'm getting the impression that the studios know that Spidey 3 was a little crammed.
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I did forget that they had Sandman kill Uncle Ben. You're right, that movie kind of sucked a lot.
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Sorry you didn't get it. It's just as good as Spidey 2, which had plenty of problems you all conveniently give a free pass.
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Well, it has to be. You can't get much worse than that last sack of shit.
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A moustachioed man running around New York shirtless (save for some fruity looking furry shoulder pads) wearding leopard skin leotards that are so tight that David Lee Roth wouldn't be caught dead in them, is a poor idea. Don't get me wrong, I like Kraven, I just don't think he will translate well on screen. I say give Lizard his due, but get another villain (my vote: Jason Statham as Electro) and use him a la Scarecrow in The Dark Knight. Maybe start with a slam bang opening in which Spidey puts Electro away only to have Lizard free him for another three way superhero battle finale like Spidey 3.
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or that SM2 was all that great. I actually preferred 3. Sure, there were all kinds of problems (coincidental meteor shower, butler ex machina, shoehorning Gwen Stacy in), but I had absolutely no problem with the way Venom was handled (although, I have to say, I would have preferred the excellent Ultimate Venom storyline in which Brock was an older friend whose father worked with Peter's father, accidentally developing the symbiote, instead of the alien crap). But what they did fit the needs of the story, and I thought the Sandman character and how he challenged Peter around the vengeance and forgiveness theme were excellent. The jazz dance, well, yeah, it was cheesy, but it was fun in a Silver Age kinda way. SM2 was fine, with a couple of great sequences, but it wasn't really about anything, except another father/mentor figure that goes crazy and has no motivations for what he does beyond pure insanity. And if we go the Lizard route, we have the SAME story again. Father/mentor figure goes nuts and turns into a dark mirror of himself and Petey has to put him down. Yaaawn. I'm not crazy about Kraven either. Guy who hunts. Yeah. That'll work. Maybe they'll go with the Clone Saga, or something more interesting, like recasting Kingpin and doing a whole thing where Kingpin buys the rights to the Spidey image (I think that was Ultimate Spider Man as well). Anyway, if they do Lizard I hope they do something different with the story and make it more interesting.
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watch both back to back and tell me its not just as hammy
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There aint gonna be a reboot, dumdum. Critical acclaim for 1 and 2 and (something like) 2 billion worldwide not including DVD and merch = youre a fucking idiot. Im NOT saying these movies (especially 3) are masterpieces, or that I wouldnt mind a different take by a different director. I AM saying youre a dumass for thinking a relatively new billion dollar franchise has any chance of being "rebooted". Even if they brought in a new director and Gyllenhall(sp?) the trajectory and the feel of a new movie would remain the same. Sorry dipshit
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I've never taken the position that Spiderman 3 doesn't suck. What I was saying was in regards to the whole "IT'S WORSE THAN BATMAN AND ROBIN!" thing. My least favorite is still Fantastic Four. Talk about treating your most well-known characters like crap.
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We need Spiderman 4, just to find out what REEEEEALLLY happened to Uncle Ben. I think there was a THIRD villain there who shot from the grassy knoll. LOL. Has there ever been a plot device so overused in the history of film? Not to mention the bitch Kirsten Dunst turned into, what was that about?? I like to pretend S3 never even happened. I just go back to explanation of the uncle's death that was perfectly fine and the happy ending with Mary Jane saying go get 'em. Everything after that was a spicy-food nightmare.
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make him funny!! Not funny in that we laugh at his screw-ups, but actually funny. Give him good banter, make him a wiseass like Peter Parker is supposed to be. No more Emo-boy!!
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I like to pretend that Mary Jane died at the end of SPIDERMAN and that all the parts of SPIDERMAN 2 about her aren't in the movie.
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the hundred foot Sandman at the end or Spidey and Harry flying around together on the glider together? Je. Sus. Christ. I was honestly waiting for someone to yell "Nobody steps on a church in my town!"
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and give us more Betty Brant!! We need more Elizabeth Banks!
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You say yes.
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Well uh... I'm "sorry" (is that what they're calling it these days?) that you didn't "get" (is that what they're calling it these days?) 'Spider-Man 2' either. But I don't really feel bad for all you weirdos that Spider-Man isn't funny enough or whatever, so we'll just have to disagree to agree on what constitutes a good movie.
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I believe the name speaks for itself.
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Two-Face WAS shoehorned into TDK. DENT was given a fully fleshed arc, but once he became Two-Face, very little was done with him. Having him go around Death Wish style and execute the people who wronged him in the last 15 minutes of the movie felt tacked on and Nolan never bothered to explore the duality of the character. (I know he's supposed to be a two dimensional villain, but we only saw one dimension: the bad. He should of at least had a glimmer of the good that Dent represented in him. Say what you will about Tommy Lee Jones' portrayal, at least he showed flashes of Dent's former self, which is the crucial aspect of the character.)
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That's an apologist nightmare if I've ever had one. SPIDEY 3 was a major letdown coming off SPIDEY 2 and from a plot/scripting standpoint, it was just bad. The jazz piano shlock...iunno. I wonder if something that asinine wasn't just ad libbing. but moving on.
I love raimi's body of work. From the ED series to A SIMPLE PLAN, THE GIFT, and FOR LOVE OF THE GAME. So don't take this as if some fanboy hater is screaming it, but I think his creative juices have been exhausted for this series.
that's number 1. number 2: you're kidding yourself if you don't think venom is coming back. this doesn't bother me qua venom because he IS the natural choice for a spider-man nemesis, especially since Peter is at a point where the identity crisis stuff is behind him. that said, the venom character that they've already established in this iteration of SPIDEY-verse is poorly constructed. he LOOKS cool, but as was previously mentioned, his introduction was a clusterfuck, and the character would benefit from a reboot. but beside that, nobody was upset with christopher nolan for pissing on tim burton's legacy, were they? I would rather see a completely new approach ala batman begins and pray for a similar confluence of direction/scripting and audience enthusiasm.
number 3: FX need to improve on spidey. this was already mentioned and look, I gave the first movie a pass on this because they more or less got spidey onscreen. the second movie improved significantly the cgi swinging and battle sequences. the third movie certainly did not improve and may even have fallen below the bar set in the sequel. a lot of that probably has to do with the script - you have to have a scene that masks the inadequacies of the current technology better than SPIDEY-3 did. then again, it's hard to take anything the "green surf turd" does onscreen seriously.
I don't think raimi likes the venom/carnage characters. so that's a good argument for mysterio. personally, I think the only major stuff that's left involves the symbiotes: maximum carnage being the next logical step. I doubt they'd go the kingpin route, but the 90s cartoon did develop a pretty respectable story arc with kingpin as the primary villain. I suppose they can spare him from DD, but property rights are prolly an issue with the devils of Hollywood...er...I mean FOX. -
Because Singer inexplicably decided to make a sequel/homage to the 70's Superman movies, a complete reboot of Superman is certainly in order (and now more likely thanks to Nolan). They can keep that Brandon dude I guess, but other than that start over.
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or Rocket Racer
Maybe even Fusion The Twin Terror! -
Saw it one time opening night and I'll never watch one frame of that abomination ever again. The incessant weeping...the pathetic villains...the ridiculous coincidences...the emo dance numbers...and the coup de grace, the Osborn butler who's a forensic expert on knife wounds. I've tried to pretend it never happened but it's burned in my memory like watching your dog get run over by a bus. As far as I'm concerned this creative team is 1-for-3. Spidey 1 suffered from a limp villain and the burden of the origin story, but Spidey 2 truly kicked ass with the only great performance in the series thus far by Alfred Molina. It's time for Raimi and Maguire to step aside and let some fresh blood take a crack at it.
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Spidey 1 was great, Spidey 2 was AWESOME, and I liked Spidey 3, so I'm in for 4 and 5. I just hope that it doesn't get awful. Seems whenever you go further than a trilogy it all falls apart.
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I was being snarky! oh well. my point was there isnt gonna be a reboot cuz they (Sony AND Marvel) have absolutely no incentive to do that. yada yada yada
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Yeah, and he didn't get to snap her neck either. SNAP.
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I have a huge feeling/hope that they're going to do the Sinister Six Trilogy. This time, they're going to do it a bit bigger and better. They've got to introduce two villians at one time during the film series. But let's face it, this time it's going to get really serious film only because we have James freaking Vanderbilt at the script. He's got the ability to make things get really serious, really fast, and he can get comedic as needed. I have a feeling that we're starting a new trilogy with much more for the villians to say this time, rather than the girl. Downplay MJ and boost up the villians, THAT is what will make people go apeshit. It worked for DK, it worked for Star Wars (Original Trilogy), and it will work for SM4. Just PLLEASEE don't title it Spider-Man 4!!!
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Does NOT need a fucking reboot! Fucking Hollywood has gone fucking reboot crazy! Shut the fuck up! Bryan Singer is talented and could easily have made a more action-oriented slam-bang sequel that pleased all you attention-deficit teenage losers who thought the first one "din't have nuff 'splosions innit". Give me a break. He set up a greate world for Superman and now they're going to start over??! Let me guess. Superman wears a bat suit and gets really angsty and dark... I repeat: shut the fuck up!
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Weirdly enough, I think that the origin story was the best part about Spidey 1; it all goes downhill once he moves to Manhattan. But all those scenes with him in Queens are gold (in my opinion).
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I will admit that I mostly thought the first Spider-Man was good, but my god the first hour is really hard to sit through after the second time. It's just slow, and all the awkwardness of watching fuckup Peter bumble and stumble through life isn't really so much entertaining as painful. The second half is much stronger, but the movie still misses what I consider to be Spider-Man's defining trait: He's one of the original wise-cracking heroes. Before you saw jokey wiseasses beating up bad guys all over the movies, there was a Spider-Man. And in the first Spider-Man movie, he manages ONE little wisecrack - "Hey kid, let mom and dad talk for a minute" - and that's it. It's a good line, but it's hardly capturing the spirit of what has always defined the character to me - the sense of fun he feels when he's in the costume. Life may be rough outside the costume, but in it, he's free and lovin' it.
There's not really anything nice I can say about Spider-Man 2. There are three action sequences in the whole movie, one of which is over almost as soon as it starts and another which is the sleep-inducing climax. Other than that, the entire movie is about Peter Parker: Professional Crybaby. He can stare out a window and IMAGINE conversations that never took place which cause him to weep like an itty bitty bitch! I guess that's kind of a superpower. Even more amazing: His ability to WILL AWAY his superpowers simply by not wanting to be Spider-Man anymore. That's one atrocious plot device. Add to this the fact that he looks like a Grade-A Moron throughout the film for how he handles MJ and Harry (seriously, he can't even muster up a single "No" about Spider-Man killing Norman - royal idiocy to the point where you start to wonder if Peter thinks he DID kill Norman), and then of course the version of Doc Ock that somehow steals the main gimmick that makes Venom unique - his multiple personalities - and you get a complete clusterfuck. And yeah, Spider-Man is actually LESS FUN than ever before.
What Spider-Man 3 captures, then, is fun. It's still disappointing in other ways - they totally cock up how they handle Venom, even though I rather enjoyed their incarnation of Eddie. But there's so many FUN scenes in this movie. First off, you get more SPIDER-MAN scenes than either of the first two films COMBINED. Second, you get the best action sequences in the series to date - from Peter fighting Harry out of costume to the final confrontation and even points in-between like the subway fight, there's a lot of golden material here. Thirdly, Peter finally gets a scene where he gets to act like the sarcastic wiseass I've always known him to be in a fight - although sadly it happens when he's supposed to be under the "evil influence" of the black suit, but whatever. And fourth, yeah, the black suit provides for some truly hilarious scenes. The dance in the jazz club, the walking montage down the street - uproariously funny. Even when Peter winds up yet AGAIN crying like an itty bitty bitch, Harry's glee over it is so hilarious that it really helps mute the annoyance level. Mix in the best musical score of all three - I've long been a lover of Danny Elfman, but Christopher Young's themes for the black suit and for Sandman trump ANYTHING Elfman pulled out on this franchise - and yeah, this is easily my favorite of the three. It's still not there, and certainly not as good as the currently animated series that is tearing up the airwaves stateside, but it's easily my favorite of the films. -
I agree that Spiderman 3 was the worst of the bunch, but none of it was Raimi and companies fault. The blame for that should be squarely placed on Avi Arad's shoulders for forcing Venom on the film. You can clearly see what that movie was going to be in the scenes with Sandman, which are all very good. I'm ecstatic that they are bringing back McGuire and Raimi and hopefully they will just let Raimi do his thing without interfering. They better get Dunst back to too, even though she is crap.
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Why are they incapable of getting a goddamned Goblin suit right? They did get the look of Sandman and Ock dead on but they managed to buttfuck both goblins. How is this possible?
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Superman is not the topic. Keep it the webhead, the superhero who doesn't have to BEG to have you willingly suspend your disbelief.
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There was no "Sonar" action scene. A sequence so haphazardly structured and incomprehensibly edited that we needed Morgan Freeman constantly narrating over the action just to figure out what the fuck was going on. ("SWAT team's on the top level! Hostages are on the bottom! Look out for kidnappers, the kidnappers ARE the hostages!") It was like trying to play a video game when your buddies are all drunk and saying "Shoot him! Go there! Kill that guy", which is to say, annoying as fuck!
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Not too keen on another BIG Spidey movie though. 3 was just too much. I wanted them to step back to something more like the first: lighter, faster, more fun.
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Video games that structure themselves off of video games are annoying as the McCain Speech at the GOP convention.
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Umm having a green skinned harpy dressed up in a fucking purple vest and cap that looks like it came from a Renaissance Festival is just plain stupid...
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i felt that Twoface wasnt meant to be the next Batman villain or a major threat. he was a supporting character or a plot device. if that meant he had to be simplified a little, that was fine if it served the story. this was the Joker movie.
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Because they cast Kirsten Dunst..thats why! I mean just look at her! She isn't Hot in the typical Hollywood way...oh no. She is hot in a Jersey/South Georgia Trailer park way. Ya know what I'm talking about, you've seen these types...stringy hair usually colored..skin a little pale and pasty...a figure defined by a diet of junk food/cigarettes/late nights/perhaps some meth..yet with a glorious set of natural mams...just droopy enough to let those hot pink nips hang down into your mouth when they are on top...Yes sir...Kirsten defines that look....It really is too bad she got lucky and became a well known actress..I can picture her sitting outside a trailer...a hot humid day in the park...her long red hair slightly damp..and her braless full C's clinging to a sweat soaked wife beater as she fidgets in a pair of daisy dukes so tight they were too small when her mom bought them for her when she was 15; sucking on a cancer stick and carelessly wiggling a Dollar Store Flip Flop clad foot as she waits for someone..anyone besides her drunken boyfriend to rescue her and pay attention to her for even if it is just for a few hours of careless booze fueled sex...ummmmm....oh...sorry...
Spiderman 3 sucked by the way..and I can do without 4 or 5 if it represents whats in store. -
Check IMDB, that sack of shit was written by Sam and Ivan Raimi. http://tinyurl.com/p3dzd
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pretty obvious
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mostly mad scientists with gimmicky powers.
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Ummm. Yeah, you just described the Joker. That worked just fine.
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Just wondering. Cuz it seems we're gonna' be watching this shit the rest of our lives. How many people can stumble into radiation disasters? How much spandex is too much? American movies are starting to look like Halloween in West Hollywood. Please, someone, make a film about real people.
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Sep 05, 2008 5:56:25 PM CDT
Saying "Its Like A Video Game" Is No Longer A Valid Argument
by laserpants
Video games have gotten to the point where they are immersive, sometimes incredible, experiences. They are complicated, visually stunning, and intelligent. Truth be told, I'd rather play an average action game then watch an average action movie. At least with the former I am directly involved with the action and having fun rather than having a passive experience. So you'll have to say, "Its like a BAD video game" from now on. Comparing something to a video game is no longer an automatic negative.
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me! i dread the Avengers movie and all its tie-ins. TDK was great but it killed superhero movies for me.
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1)When a star has too much say over a movie's direction, it usually ends up bad.2)That's why Spidey's mask is off for half of Spider-Man 3; so that Maguire's face is shown.3)Maguire's a major weenie -- which is the closest he should get to an Oscar. Heh.4)Did I mention Maguire's a weenie?
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I didn't say he was dressed like a $12 pimp with cocaine all over his face.
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do you think one reason is so that they can TRY and intergrate it into current marvel u, Magneto, Doom, hell Punisher (if it's as bad as it's sounding), SHIELD, Hulk, even Kingpin are all possibilities that we know and could be intergrated into Spiderman. I don't know if it's a GOOD idea but it's a possibility. I wonder if Rami saw what Favs and whats his face that did Hulk did by setting it in a common universe and are trying to emulate that
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They're different. You got a jekyll/hyde that Spidey HAS TO KEEP ALIVE, a jealous magician, the ultimate conman, a buisness man that takes things too far, the ultimate hunter, and a student who has a horrible accident with electricity. It's Spidey's job to be the scientist.
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I walked away from Spider-Man 3 very disappointed when I saw it in the theatres. Having seen it twice on DVD, though, it works much, much better. In fact, I like it better than the first one (part 2 is still the best). I'm not sure why it works better on a smaller screen. Perhaps because the spectacle of the action sequences isn't able to overwhelm the smaller character moments (which are quite good and very melancholy). I personally thought it was a nice ending to the trilogy (all three added up to a nice beginning, middle, and ending) and don't really see where they can still take the characters.
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I don't hate the origin story in Spidey 1, but for comic book movies in general I feel that filmmakers are somewhat neutered by the obligation to dedicate half the film to the origin story. Spidey 1 pulled it off admirably, but I still see the hero's backstory as a burden when what we really go to see is good guy vs. bad guy. With origin out of the way, Spidey 2 was focused and exhiliarating.
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the comic book Green Goblin couldn't have looked any worse than Battle Armor-Power Ranger goblin. You know it to be true.
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Spidey 1 - was good... first comic book movie and so we loved it .. looking back, could have been MUCH better....
Spidey 2 - definitely better, but still not enough action and a bit of moping (but that's ok)...
Spidey 3 - Hairy stinky turdball... I want to say worse than Superman Returns, but they duel it out ... Marvel vs DC in who has the bigger stinkiest hairiest turd!! -
Enough giving excuses for Admiral Raimi ... if he can do 4 the way he shot those scenes of Doc OC then MIGHT be good
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The Goblin's face was still there and Dafoe really sold it. (Especially the rooftop scene. That little walk he did and the way he crossed his arms was priceless.)
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she was feeling jealous and frustrated at her own failures so she makes out with another guy? what the fuck? it was so funny cuz the audience completely turned on her after that. Then in Peter is shown as a whiny, crying little bitch punk for crying over the skank. Why did Raimi think the audience would care if Peter and MJ made up? he ruined both characters. one is a slut and the other is weakling. good job, raimi
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...which maybe explains their hatred for Spiderman 3, perhaps the most emotionally-complex and character-driven film of the three.
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I haven't liked any of the Spiderman films that Raimi has directed so far. His early films (i.e. Darkman and Evil Dead 1 and 2) are great though. But that said if he could make the next films all feel like that Doc Ock operation scene I would be down with that. Right now Christopher Nolan is the best comic book director working...Period.
Iron Man and Spiderman 1,2,3 were TERRIBLE.
The Doc Ock scene in 2 was just about the only inspired part of that entire series because it was like Raimi's earlier work. -
....it giving Spider-Man back his Balls.
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I haven't read all the previous posts yet so sorry if someone already beat me to this, but I wonder if they're indeed planning to have the lizard as the major baddy in part 4 and Kraven in part 5 to hunt him. It's been done in the comics.
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Films about real people come out every week, you just have to buy a ticket and go and not see Dark Knight for the 5th or 6th time...
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Was extremely reminiscent of Superman 3 in suckiness. Lame comedic elements, terrible villains, split personality Spidey/Supes. The only cool part of Superman 3 was the fight between the bad Superman and the good one. We didn't even get that with Spidey 3.
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It's much better seeing a character going overboard with his powers than moping around and not using them. Also, 3 was great because of the theme: the choices we make affect our lives. The Black Suit was not a part of Peter. He chooses the Black Suit and it costs him almost everything. When he learns Sandman killed Ben, he chooses to wear the suit for revenge. When he confronts Brock at the Bugle, he's wearing the suit out of spite. Although it wasn't exactly like the comics where the suit was a part of Peter, it added another dimension to the character as well as the film that many choose to ignore.
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"We need Spiderman 4, just to find out what REEEEEALLLY happened to Uncle Ben." Yes, that's brilliant. Keep adding layer upon ridiculous layer to Uncle Ben's death, with every subsequent film, until CLiff Robertson's death - and then continue with a totally CGI Cliff Robertson.
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i think its too late after the last one.
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If Frank Miller can save Batman's balls after Adam West's tragedy, then James Vanderbilt can do the same for Spidey.
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"Does NOT need a fucking reboot! Fucking Hollywood has gone fucking reboot crazy! Shut the fuck up! Bryan Singer is talented and could easily have made a more action-oriented slam-bang sequel that pleased all you attention-deficit teenage losers who thought the first one "din't have nuff 'splosions innit". Give me a break. He set up a greate world for Superman and now they're going to start over??! Let me guess. Superman wears a bat suit and gets really angsty and dark... I repeat: shut the fuck up!" I think I love you.
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rebeck2. there. that's better. sorry. it was a shitty thing to do to someone i just declared love for.
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i feel something similar about both these movies....why, because in my opinion both shared the whole "second is better than the first" thing..and both also shared "the third is worse than the previous two" thing. i dont find Spidey 3 to be un-watchable nor do i find X-Men 3 to be either, they were just let downs for me because the subject material used seemed so jam-packed like they had to cram as much into the films as possible, reminds be of a triple stack from Wendy's with a biggie fries and biggie coke....i feel full but miserable at the end, where as a prime filet cooked just right with asparagus and garlic mashed potatoes would have me feeling full and satisfied....mmmm....beeeeef
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Let's have the lizard and have Kraven hunting him and SM trying to protect Lizard/Dr. Conners. That actually may be cool, but Raimi will probably turn it into Salamander Hulk.
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The Dark Knight didn't suck at all.
The two villain thing worked for TDK, because Nolan isn't a fucking retard. And ALSO Nolan plays by his own rules. (i.e. casting Heath Ledger, known as the guy from Brokeback, as the Joker all you dumb fuckers doubted it)
Raimi on the other hand listened to you fucking dickwads and reluctantly put Venom in there (he didn't want to do it, you fuckers forced him) and thus the reason why he had to also put the symbiote in there aswell to explain Venom.
Spiderman 3 didn't suck because there were too many villains, with the right script treatment you can have any amount. It sucked because its fans made it suck, and forced Raimi's hand.
YOU guys killed Spiderman. So go fuck yourselves. -
I'm not too sure on why people are complaining that tobey's spidey is a wimp....Does anyone remember GREG BRADY as Spider-Man?
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I hate the fucking hollywood impulse to try to turn Superman into Batman because he isn't "dark enough". Christ, Superman isn't dark and isn't supposed to be. He wears a red cape and shiny red boots and goes around catching school buses that fall off bridges. Don't run from it, it's what he is.
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emotionally random. characters acted in ways completely opposite of their past actions for no reason. character driven? it went out of its way to disrespect the characters (MJ a bitch, Peter a whiner). character's personalities changed whenever the clunky plot required them to and with the flimsiest excuses (harry's fucking butler?!? )just weak
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....ALSO....i think i was getting tired of watching Peter and MJ bicker, piss and moan and stare at each other with those big doughy eyes like it was a damn contest er something. i was kinda hoping MJ was gonna bite the dust in 2....but oh well, more 3rd grade romance coming right up in 4 im sure.
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has been around for awhile, but I think really he should be Chameleon since he keeps popping up as different people and no one seems to notice. Maybe he saw Peter in the cage match in the first one and is stalking him only to pop up from time to time to get the goods on his true identity.
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Why? Too many villains. It was "Batman & Robin" all over again, and I couldn't put myself through it. Frankly, after Dark Knight and Iron Man, the Spiderman movies just are not holding up. I have absolutely no desire to watch any of them; 1, 2, or 3.
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Amen. I couldn't have put it better myself.
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yeah, i read how Raimi mentioned he didnt like the character and he didnt get why people like him so much (is it cause his suit is black???...he has spider man powers AND hes a villain???). im not a big Venom fan really, and he did seem a little shoe-horned into the movie...but oh well, i hope the fuckers that were clamouring for him got what they wanted.
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Sep 05, 2008 6:30:21 PM CDT
If Spider-Man 4 is going to set-up a villain for part 5...
by tylerdurden3395
They should do it exactly what The Incredible Hulk did with Leader. That scene had people going buckwild at the midnight show.
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I have to agree with you about Bruce Campbell as Chameleon stalking Peter. That would be cool and actually make sense. And wasn't Chameleon Kraven's brother or something?
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studio making him combine too many stories for 3. I could do without Tobey as Spiderman though. The guy lucked out with that role. Replace em'
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He's obviously bored with the series. Spidey 4 needs the Raimi who did Darkman. S3 was bloated beyond belief. And fewer villains, pleeeeeez!!!
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oh yeah....now it's a going...
how about Electro and Mysterio?? -
I think you're right, at least I think I think I remember that's how it was in one of the cartoons.
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Spiderman 3 cheese but not FF cheese(except spiderman and goblin on same glider)disgrace. Need a better story and character for Venom he is way to important in the mythos. Juice is right Kraven/Vermin story awesome. Do not reboot for 4 get a great script and take time to make it right. In part 5 make Carnage the baddest villain ever to be on screen, wicked evil. A little harsh on raimi huh. He was a god after part 2 I read. Dont be dicks. enough said
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sony and marvel need to leave sam alone. they seriously fucked up spider-man 3 with the shit sandwich they dumped on sam.
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Gets Peter's DNA off the wine glass in the restaurant in 3 and figures out he's got spider DNA. I'd like to see him be Dr. Connors' put upon colleague who screws up his experiment that turns him into Lizard. (Remember Raimi's villains are all FLAWED so it can't be Connor's fault that he's a monster.) Chameleon holds the city at ransom until Peter fesses up he's Spider-Man while dealing with Lizard, who now has his own agenda with Chameleon. Whoa, okay this sounds just like Dark Knight so never mind....
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They should have a great Lizard and Carnage story maybe including Kraven hunting the Lizard. Then at some point have the Carnage symbiote jump onto the Lizard and then have Spidey try to deal with that.
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...was they piled straight into it as soon as 2 was released, with a release date set in stone. Sam & Ivan cam up with a story involving Sandman and Vulture and the film was already in pre-production and doing FX work when Arad stuck his oar in and forced Venom AND Gwen Stacy on them. Of course the script was gonna be a hodge-podge in those circumstances. Everyone was burned out from the first two with no chance to take a breather. Raimi looks like he aged about 10 years during the making of that movie, all the on set interviews I read seemed to stress how exhausted he was. I'm not making excuses for him, he fucked up for sure but anyone would have had a tough time making a good film in those circumstances.
Saying all that, though I didn't think Spider-Man 3 was the complete train wreck some make it out to be. It did have its fun points and I didn't even mind the goofy dancing too much but the plotting was atrocious and the last act just fell apart. My theory is, if they could have edited it down by 15 mins or so, toned down the dance scenes, got rid of the butler and that fucking annoying reporter,
maybe reinserted some of the sandman scenes which got cut (and apparently really pissed Hayden Church off) then the general reaction would not have been nearly so negative. It would still have had major problems for sure and would have been a letdown after 2 but the fanboys wouldn't have been nearly so vehement in their hatred. -
I think the Ultimate Carnage story has Carnage being created when Dr. Connors tried to use the Venom symbiote to regrow his arm, which fits right in to the scene where Connors kept the black suit sample in 3.
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I was really looking forward to some kind of epic venom story that spanned two film (he gets the black suit in the first film, have him fight some other villian, maybe harry, finally gets rid of it at the end 'cos MJ dies from his carelessness once he becomes evilspidey, build up eddie brock as a character, then second film we have him fighting venom) but they ruined that ever happening.
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What "sandman scenes which got cut (and apparently really pissed Hayden Church off)" are you talking about?
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Extended cut or something. It does seem that that movie was all cut to shit.
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more scenes with his family and back story I think. I remember an interview with Hayden Church after the premiere where he said he had words with raimi about all his best scenes being cut. he was diplomatic about it and said it was better for the film overall or some bullshit (this was during promotion, he wasn't gonna bad mouth it) but reading between the lines I think it's pretty clear he wasn't too pleased.
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holding a stuffed teddy bear or some shit. The director's cut will probably have a lot of Flint Marko family BS with a boozed out Teresa Russell hollering about the child support she was supposed to get while Sandy was in the clink. That and three more make up-break up scenes with Peter and MJ
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Any fucking opportunity to remind everyone you thought it sucked. What movies do you actually enjoy? Go lick a clit.
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Stop lying to yourselves, True Believers.
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Sep 05, 2008 7:02:25 PM CDT
I think part of the problem with 3, that no one...
by whinynegativebitch
...Likes to face is that there is nothing left to say. 1 and 2 covered the whole Spider-Man mythos. 3 just turns into soap opera, because their was nowhere left to go. They had potential with the introduction of Venom, but since Raimi had no idea how to utilise that character, it just became an awkward intrusion on the dawsons creek like drama.
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Connors finally turns into Lizard and Vulture is Aunt May's new love interest. (played by Ben Kingsley) THERE'S YOUR FUCKING MOVIE.
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Sep 05, 2008 7:09:03 PM CDT
Sorry UnionJACK, Macguire doesn't capture the character
by industrykiller!
He's good in the beginning of the first movie, other than that he's crap. he has no character arc int eh films. he raminas as pathetically nerdy as he was in frame one of the first film throughout. Moreover he captures none of the wit and sort of off kilter rogueish charm of Parker in the Spider Man costume. People who don't know the character well don't understand that once Peter graduates high school he actually becomes a pretty cool well rounded guy. he grows into his own and through Spider man gains some confidence. He doesn't stay all squeeky voiced and meek. macguire doesn't get that, he only plays one note nerdy. Someone like Jim Sturgess, who is handsome yet real, and has the capacity for a bit more swagger and fun would be a MUCH better fit for the role.
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the other day. I hadn't seen it since last summer. I was enjoying it until the emo dance and the rushed act 3. They went from Eric Foreman (dumbass) becoming Venom, to the final kidnapping of MJ (again) sequence in a matter of minutes. Hopefully part 4 leaves MJ the fuck out of the climax.
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What happened to that rumor?
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it's been WAAAAAY better than any of the X-Men flicks.
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Damn you BND
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I'd also like to see a reboot but I liked 1 a lot, loved 2, and liked parts of 3, so I'm ok with Raimi taking another crack at it.
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that the line "spider senses tingling was NEVER said in any of the movies. fuckers.
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-spiderman 3 was the worst of the 3. but, they STARTED cool with the black suit. the idea of "great power" corrupting peter was a good one. it STARTED cool. i did hate how the symbiote just fell from the sky, unexplained, and that was that. i thought they were going to have the astronaut that MJ almost married in the 2nd bring the symbiote back from space.
-venom was handled poorly. raimi doen't like the character (even though it would've been great to see someone that cared about venom direct his movie...we didn't get that). the cgi venom clinging to the wall looked ass. topher grace was an ass choice. topher grace wasn't good as venom.
-james franco was GD awful in it, but they had a good idea with him getting amnesia, because you knew eventually he would remember...he was a time bomb. this story arc needed an ending, and i'm sure they assumed they were not going to be back for 4 & 5. so, they had to wrap it up.
-sandman was rushed through. this could have been developed into a more interesting story, if we didn't have to have venom forced in. but, sandman always struck me as a villain like "juggernaut"...cool to see, but not real important in terms of the story's continuity.
-spiderman 3 was better than batman & robin. this is a no-brainer. anyone that argues that these 2 movies are neck in neck in terms of quality needs to re-watch batman & robin as punishment. that movie was the worst piece of shit ever shat. spiderman 3 suffered from shoehorning 3 villains into one movie...2 of which were introduced in it. batman & robin suffered long before they brought in poison ivy.
-sam raimi is better than joel schumacher. it gets me a little bit upset that fanboys rip on him for spiderman 3. it wasn't the best. it was kind of a chaotic mess...but, don't come down so hard on raimi. this si the dude tht brought you evil dead 2, army of darkness, and the first 2 spiderman movies. i think it's awesome that he and tobey are back for the 4th and 5th. i look forward to it, especially if dylanbaker is back.
-the franchise fizzled. the first 2 were great. (willem dafoe made the 1st one. he gave an incredible performance). but, i think the fact that they're not just saying "spiderman 4" but, "spiderman 4 & 5" could be a good sign. they might continue on with bryce dallas howard. they could be building up to something hueg in 5.
-we're all obviously excited about this news. this TB has blown up. -
Especially when Dylan Baker's film "Trick 'r Treat" has been in limbo for a looong time...
I hope if they do Electro, he doesn't look like a huge dork. Heck, the one from the new cartoon looks better. -
Spiderman 2 is one of the most overrated superhero movies ever...in fact, it is THE most overrated. Lame FX, retardedly simple psych101 storyline...just horrible. Give it to a new director.
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Jebus, they've been setting up that character for three movies now.
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Do the Wendigo story arc from Todd Macfarlane's 1990 Spidey comic reboot. That was a great story. Too dark for the kiddies though.
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they suck. all their products are too expensive and not that well made. that is all.
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What was so annoying about the butler scene was not just how stupid it was but how unnecessary. It was obvious that deep down Harry knew all along that Peter never killed his father he just didn't want to admit it. The butler scene was a piss poor attempt at solving a narrative problem which never existed in the first place.
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Carrot Top as Electro.
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I cannot get over the fact that there are films based on spider-man (spidey 3) and the x-men (The cunt stand) that i will only see once. They are that bad. How do you make a bad film on that source material.
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Personally I want to see Raimi and Maguire go out strong with a fourth film - maybe advance the story a few years, look at Pete and MJ in their late 20's/early 30's - this time though, the studio need to leave Raimi the fuck alone and let him make the film he wants; hopefully without the added pressure of fanboy Venom expectation and the fact that everyone's looking to the next Bat-film as opposed to Spidey 4 might give them the breathing room to really make a damn good film instead of the entertaining (yes I said entertaining, its in no way the disaster some people think it is) but messy third film. Also I hope they're just gonna make the one film and not some 'epic two part' story - call me old fashioned but I like my movies to have real endings as opposed to some useless cliffhanger (Pirates 2 and Matrix 2). Though I have to disagree with the posters who say Venom should have been a two movie story in the first place; even though he was shoehorned into the film, the Venom arc actually made sense - he was a result of Peter's actions (confronting his literal demon so to speak) and the emphasis remains on Spidey, not Venom - even if there was no Sandman, this still would have occured if Venom had to appear within one film. If we had some cliffhanger with Venom at the end and then a fourth film, I honestly don't think the character would have had much to do and you'd need probably ANOTHER villain just to help push the story along. The character's backstory is too protracted to be anything but a third act villain considering Peter is so instrumental to the 'traditional' origin. I think Raimi knew that and when the people asked for Venom, they did receive just that.
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A whiney, unsupportive, jealous bitch. Everything the original MJ wasn't. Kill this Raimi MJ off and bring in Kirsten Stewart for Blackcat. Blackcat always had better chemistry with web-head anyway. http://www.superiorpics.com/kristen_stewart/pictures1.html
Imagine Kirsten Stewart wrapped around you... Meeeeeow. -
and no dunst.
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Please please please no more dancing!
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Sometimes she's just wrong.
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He was either complicit in making Spidey 3 as majestically awful as it was, or lacked the artisitc integrity to walk away from a project he didn't believe in if these "creative differences" with Avi Arad were as vitriolic as the apologists claim. Either way, there's plenty of blame to lay on his shoulders. I'm noth bashing Raimi--I like his work overall--but to absolve him of any culpability in the shitbucket that was Spidey 3 is preposterous.
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it not like any of them has been making anything else worth talking about
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Just please, for the love of God, don't have the third act revolve aroound Mary Jane being in trouble. It worked for the first two flicks, but how 'bout something else.
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Sep 05, 2008 7:53:37 PM CDT
MJ dies and Spider-man and Blackcat has spider-kittens.
by damien chowder
Kirsten Stewart, Kirsten Stewart... repeat the mantra, make it so.
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Tropic Thunder, my friend. Tobey's cameo was BRILLIANT.
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...Raimi had it going on with Spidey 1 and ESPECIALLY Spidey 2 which I still consider to be one of the greatest hero films of all time...and I enjoyed Spidey 3 because I'm a fan...but the train came off the rails for many more reasons than the "forced" Venom plotline.
I had A LOT of trouble with ALL OF THE CRYING and the revenge jazz dance sequence and as much as I appreciated the "nerdy walk" montage of Spidey 2...that "comedic" "badass" walk that they utilized in Spidey 3 took something that was supposed to be serious (black suit) and turned it into something completely ridiculous.
No more Raimi! REBOOT! -
Bringing in the Lizard (finally) is obvious, especially with the whole "we'll know who's playing him" note, but he's not a two-movie villain. I'd even hesitate calling him a one-movie villain, though I think it could be done if done carefully.
Unless 4 and 5 are completely different stories, and not one huge film split in two, I can't think of any huge Spidey villains left that could warrant two films. Doc Ock and both Goblins are dead; Sandman's been done (though he could come back as a Spider-ally); and let's not even mention Venom ever again.
Kraven's worthy of a movie, but the only way to use him effectively over two is to adapt "Kraven's Last Hunt." Which is pretty dark, but if studios are convinced superheroes have to be dark to be successful, I could see them going in this direction. The Lizard could fit into a Kraven story. Raimi can certainly go dark, as well. Don't know who could play him, though.
Mysterio, maybe. I'd personally love for them to try a Mysterio movie, but again, this might not work over two films. Past these two, is there anyone left, barring a Sinister Six flick with a bunch of random super-hoodlums? -
is that in Spidey 3, Connors is like "I'm a physicist, not a biologist." I remembered that line because it pissed me off when I heard it. How does he become the Lizard if he's not a biologist? What an odd line to have Curt fucking Connors say, unless you specifically don't want him to become the Lizard.
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...see 3. Dodged a bullet there.
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Movie starts with the Lizard terrorizing New York already, and both the police and Spider-Man are unable to stop him. The police bring in Kraven, a famous hunter, to help them capture or kill the Lizard. Meanwhile, Peter discovers that the Lizard is actually Curt Connors. Kraven is dead set on killing the Lizard, so Spider-Man gets in his way, trying to convince Kraven that the Lizard is really a man. Kraven doesn't care, but after being defeated by Spider-Man, becomes more obsessed with him than the Lizard, because he's never before been defeated by any animal, human or otherwise. Because Spider-Man is seemingly protecting the Lizard now, the police give Kraven the go-ahead to capture Spider-Man as well. But Kraven becomes more and more insane and obsessed with killing Spider-Man, and begins to go too far, putting innocent bystanders at risk, and even using them/killing people to draw out/bait Spidey. Spidey confronts the police (maybe Captain Stacy), who are now more afraid of Kraven then anyone, and they agree to help him bring Kraven in, setting up a finale where Kraven buries Peter alive, but Peter is saved by Captain Stacy or something. That's how I would do Spidey 4. Not that anyone probably cares.
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that would help set up some kind of relationship between those two, and maybe make it more meaningful when he dies in the next one. Did I mention I would have Captain Stacy die in the next one? Yeah.
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I won't be seeing 4 or 5
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Spiderman 2- 8.5/10
Spiderman- 7/10
Spiderman 3- 3/10
So I will be looking forward to "Spiderman" 4, and 5. Even though number 3 sucked balls. -
'Spider-Man' and its initial sequel are on my personal Top-10 List of Best Superhero Films Ever -- [1] The Dark Knight; [2] Superman Returns; [3] Superman; [4] Batman Begins; [5] Iron Man; [6] Unbreakable; [76] X-Men 2; [8] Spider-Man 2; [9] (Ang Lee's) Hulk; [10] Spider-Man -- and even Lucas got away with a not-quite-up-to-par 'Return of the Jedi' on the backs of 'Star Wars' and 'Empire,' and didn't catch TOO much grief for his transgression. A shame '3' burned through a great villian -- Venom -- however; I personally think Sandman was the straw what broke this film's dromediad back. Unlike ANY future 'X-Men' film -- that franchise is dead to me, and fuck you eternally, Bratner -- I'll be standing in line to see a Raimi-helmed 'Spidey 4'. Bubblehead.
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Sorry, bnut you actually put Superman Returns as the 2nd best comic book film ever, and Unbreakable before X-2. You lose all crediility.
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Off-key? whatever...
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There's another character who was completely obliterated from the theatrical cut of Spidey 3. Why bother getting an actor of James Cromwell's stature in for a nothing bit part like that? They must have shot more scenes with him. Someone seriously needs to go back and re-edit this thing. I think the post-production on this was majorly rushed, all to reach a release date which was probably decided before the second film was even released. Hey Sony, how about letting the filmmakers get the job done first rather than forcing their hand with impossibly tight schedules? (I know that's how the business works but this is hardly the first time a movie has been compromised by a rush job in the edit room to meet a release date)
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What A Shitty Character! Raimi says hes one of his favorite characters? What the fuck? The only EPIC villian for a double movie is Venom or Carnage. And he fucked them both. A 4 and 5 with Lizard? I would prefer the Lizard over others but come on. And why does everyone want fucking Kraven so bad? Kraven? Are you serious? For a Spidey 4 and 5 he needs to team up for a final battle with the Human Torch or even god awful Daredevil. Sony doesnt have the rights to either of them but that would certainly expand the Marvel Universe. Atleast open the movie with Spidey racing the Human Torch around the city. Fucking Kraven....
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First off I think that this story is bullshit. Tobey MacGuire does not want to play SPIDER-MAN anymore and besides that they need a more physical actor in the suit (while he excels as Peter Parker) he is horribly stiff in the suit. Kirsten Dunst needs the boot big time and anyone who thinks her Mary Jane is correct has no idea what their relationship in the comic book is all about. We need a villian like the LIZARD. And we probably need a new director. Hell re-booting the series with an entire new cast and maybe throw in the Black Cat for Spidey/Peter's love interest. I know that SOny's original idea after Spidet 1 and 2 were such big hits was to do 3 triliogies ret-connin each Trilogy. Spidey 1-3 would be the SPIDER-MAN trilogy. Spidey 4 - 6 would be THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN TRILOGY and 7 -9 a yet un-named SPIDEY title trilogy. I am not sure the powers that be are still going to do that but they DO NEED to re-cast the films. Believe me, the actors and actresses they have picked are getting stale in the roles and so are the storylines. Let's get some fresh blood in here. SPIDER-MAN 3 was the biggest sequel dissapointment of my whole adult life. It sucked in every way imaginable (didn't get the black suit stuff right, Venom was heinous, Mary Jane was a mean-spirited bitch, even the action was ho-hum). Raimi's done his trilogy let someone else stir up the mix and please end the sub-par sequels before we get SPIDER-MAN 4 looking like BATMAN & ROBIN!!!
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He could be real scary. He could climb on walls and fight Spidey on the side of buildings. His sharp claws could really do some damage. He's scarier than Goblin, faster than Doc Ock and more deadly than Sandman and Venom. No reboot. We already have an established world and cast. No need to reintroduce everyone again. I say keep it going. Raimi made 2 good Spidey films, he deserves another shot. Someone tell him no more dancing.
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Cause Bruce Campbell needs the work and we need to see what zany character he'll come up with next. 'nuff said.
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they would hit up the Revenge of the Sinister Six storyline and cross over with Ghost Rider/Punish/ and hell introduce DeathLok while it's getting crazy. That Macfarlane Spidey Deathlok cover was one of the greatests ever. Maybe I am just being sentimental.
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I dont want to the see the actors ugly mug poking through the ooze. I could not stand that. I took Spideman 3 as a "Well if we make this one shitty then they wont come back to us for more. Besides, Im tired of making these." I love every crappy superhero movie ever made. But Spiderman 3 hurt the most. Fucking killed me. Raimi I love you. But you are finished with Spiderman because you stopped caring. Tobey Im ok with. Lizard yes. Kraven fuck my mouth pussy.
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Says the newspaper cover framed on Jamesons wall. Plus The Ock actor said he would love to come back. Sinister 6? Glad to hear someone using their brains around here. Fucking Kraven...
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I think a lot of our movies will be a little darker and push that pg-13 a bit.
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Was the saving grace of that whole sack of shit movie.
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That would be perfect. The Vulture was possibly THE most inventive villain Spider-Man had, if only because he was a brilliant but very old man.
At least introduce the character... AND CAST PETE POSTLETHWAITE. -
I mean really. Iron Man and The Dark Knight raised the bar. X men 2 and Spider Man 2, two movies I held in very high esteem, simply pale in comparison. I even prefer 2008's The Incredible Hulk. And Hellboy 2? Oh my God. Spider what?
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Tired of the look of the Spiderman films in general - SPIDERMAN III pretty much killed the franchise for me: the cliched repetitive music, the Emo-Saturday Night Fever scenes showing how cool Parker is, one-dimensional villains who morph into Godzilla at the climax, Sony's insistence on taking Parker's mask off for many scenes, Raimi's interruption of action scenes featuring TV reporters, the same gliding/flying angles, the infuriatingly boring love triangle with a most undesirable and irritating actress Kirstin Dunst - I could go on but a reboot is in order. They better get someone else too to direct, Raimi has kinds lost his edge on these films, they all look like carbon copies of each other. And I'm tired of numbers behind the titles; why cant they make sequels called THE AMAZING SPIDER MAN, THE SPECTACULAR SPIDERMAN and so forth. Sony is trying to milk the franchise but by sticking to the same formula, cast and director it is killing it.
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As long as Maguire is back and Raimi has more freedom im good.Spiderman would need a reboot without these too becuase it wouldnt feel or look right without them.Hopefully they can ditch Mary Jane also and have Spidey hook up with Gwen Stacey like he originally did.
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they gave raimi more freedom (let him write the screen play) and it turned out to be a disaster. this sucks, im not even going to see spiderman 4.
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But oh well...maybe down the line. I just want to see Jake Gyllenhaal as Spidey...and some to direct like David Fincher or Doug Liman, someone who could turn into a freaken slick film
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Using Michael Clark Duncan maybe?
Who knows! Bring it on though, it's not my money on the line, apart from $10 to see it only once if it's crap -
...they tried to give her too much. Raimi was coming under some sort of mommy-complex and needed to give her more attention, which is what weighed down the story. Did we really need an almost entire movie of her whining that she lost her acting job? I mean, the whole thing felt like some sort of guilt trip on Peter just for, you know, SAVING PEOPLE'S LIVES. "Oh, I'm sorry good citizen, but, I can't save your life right now. I have to go see my girlfriend's play!" Its something that's being done more and more in today's movies; they're idea of having strong independent female characters is basically to make the male characters feel guilty for whatever they're doing. Raimi should of just put up a scroll at the bottom of the screen that read something like "To my wife: I'm sorry for working so much". Because that's what Dunst's character's storyline pretty much feels like: Raimi apologizing to his wife. And stop with the cutsey moments already! Chubby Checker? Are you serious?! I swear, sometimes the Spiderman movies feel like they're being made for sterotypical middle-class born-again christians who think talking animals are the most hilarious things ever.
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Spidey 1 was not first comic movie. X-MEN!!! Unless you count BLADE!!! Oh and, (no longer directed at Darth_Valinorean), venom is NOT an important Spidey villain. I respect the fact that he is one of the few "modern" creations to catch on with writers and artists beyond the original creator, but nothing important has happened to Spidey in the comics since before the Toddmeister intro'd complicated looking webs and venom. Seriously. The last cool thing that happened to the regular Marvel U. Spidey was when he kicked Firelord's ass and the Avengers had to pull him off before he killed him. Also the death of Ned Leeds in a special one-shot crossover in which Spidey is duped into killing some spy chick in a kimono with his fist. Venom never has and never will matter. All who think different are strange and off-putting and probably younger than me. I hate young people SO much when I drink.
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it wasnt as great as 2 but it pulled it off as an entertaining movie. An extremely entertaining movie.
I want to f Kirsten Dunst so hard her vaginal walls catch fire. -
just to piss people owffffff
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Sep 05, 2008 10:48:24 PM CDT
SPIDER-MAN 4: LIZARD dovetail into SPIDER-MAN 5: KRAVEN'S LAST H
by babba-booey
Spider-Man 4 should have Peter trying to help a Lizard-ized Curt Connors. Once the Lizard persona takes over, the city employs Kraven to bring him down. Kraven kills the Lizard at the end of 4 and 5 picks up with Kraven answering the bounty call for Spidey from JJJ-leading Spidey and Kraven to a Last Man Standing kind of epic battle. CAN'T A GUY WISH?
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Will Spidey 4 and 5 be tied into teh same universe as Iron-Man/Hulk/Avengers??? They'd be dumb not to! I want to see a Tony Stark cameo in Spidey 4!!! Make me believe Marvel!!!!
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And only $169.99... fuck.
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http://tinyurl.com/6dezhq Sounds like Tobey WANTS in, but also wants a boatload of cash. Sounds like no one has officially signed on yet. Finke ain't always the most reliable source... but I hope she's right this time.
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Count me out that has to be the worst spidey villian. possibly the worst villian next to Stilt-man
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Reboot the series and make it DARK!
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Reboot the series and make it DARK!
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GET HIM THE FUCK OUT OF THERE! PETER PARKER DOES NOT CRY THAT FUCKING OFTEN!
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OK so most posters have already said my thoughts in pieces, but I have to chime in on the genre killing itself and Superman Returns as it does pertain to Spidey 4 and beyond and more importantly - REBOOT Bullshit. I liked Ang Lees Hulk, but it's not the comic book Hulk we all knew. I can't rewatch it as much as I was able to watch the original Superman over and over and over like I watched Burton's Batman films (1&2) over and over. The same now applies for BB and will for TDK and the new Hulk. The new Hulk was a reboot as was BB and both succeed IMO. What bothers me is rebooting when there's no need and when a director and actor just need to refocus on the good and to strip away the bad. I'm sure we've ALL made horrible mistakes (not million dollar ones, but mistakes in general we'd like to take back) Spidey 3 is a largely broken movie. You've all stated the good and the bad. It can be saved by going back to the roots of the books and the original film. The same I hope is true for Singer and Routh. Routh is as close as we might get to Reeve and believe me Reeve WAS Superman. I hope they don't got darker for the sake of darker. Explosions are cool and look nice on big screens, but the need meaning to them. Singer made his homage to Donner and he can do something new next time. THERE IS NO NEED TO REBOOT SUPERMAN. I'm as sick of the term as Hollywood is afraid of the term 'remakes'. I'm not a huge fan of Maguire, but he did OK in the first two. I agree that the genre has been hot and overdone to a degree, but Romances and horror films continue to come out nothing is really new, but rather a new vision on the same old story. Back on topic though...Spider-Man 4 needs to have GOOD quick sarcasm and not one-liners. I'm not saying it's easy, but the video games, cartoons and comics hit it on the head so Live Action can too. I also agree that the effects were kind of like ROTJ as time and technology got better the effects got worse! I think the Birth of the Sandman was PERFECT. Spidey saving Gwen was great too, but the Goblin air battle was up and down and Venom was OK, but quick and rushed. In short we need solid stories and concepts and good direction and acting no matter who's behind the scenes.
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Sep 05, 2008 11:33:08 PM CDT
I could see CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM's Larry David as 'The Vulture'
by spacesheik
Even in a cameo, say at the opening of the film.
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He could do it!
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Spdermand with four arms and the Morbius arc. That was a great story!
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the old pedophile from Family Guy
Vulture is way beyond the lame horizon
Old fart with wings
And he's an ol' meanie! -
to involve Sandman in the death of Uncle Ben, or force him to turn into some sort of grumpy monster the size of a building? Did the studio force Raimi to mess up the roles of MJ and Gwen Stacey? Did the studio force Raimi to create the "new goblin"? How does the director of two of the biggest films of all time get pushed around by the studio at all? I don't care about a re-boot, but I want a new team. Looking back, I tend to think Spider-Man 2 was a fluke(and the ending sucks too).
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Just curious here...
How is it that Sam Raimi is forgiven for Spider-man 3 and allowed to blame it on a poor script and studio interference?
Is Brett Ratner not crucified on here almost DAILY for the SAME THING??
Take THAT, suckas!!!
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Ok we can point to one scene... alone... that reminds us of the old Raimi. That scene could have been shot by anyone concsiously doing a 'Raimi' scene. What about the nonsensical fights? What about the forced comic relief? What about the emotionless Tobey Maguire? What about the fact that I don't become invested all in xtremely CGI characters bouncing around a plate shot?
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I would love to see a huge production of Arcade and Murderworld on the Big screen..(just for humor..Carrottop as arcade...I kid about the top)But If they wanted someone to put a hit out on spiderman..(Kingpin anyone)Then thats how you would do it...Then Agin I would love it if they brought in Kraven..especially with a lizard story..could rock..But I have always loved the old Murderworld..not arcade like he is now..but with the amusement park...(Hey LOOK A NEW SIX FLAGS RIDE)...what ya think people's..peace
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sam raimi has made quality movies before.
brett ratner...
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spiderman 3 is better than x3, anyway. although both of them jammed too much into the final installment. how magneto, juggernaut, the dark phoenix, and an army of angry mutants were defeated by frasier and 5 of his friends (one of which was kitty pride who does nothing) boggles the mind. -
It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great.
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Watch Darkman 30 times again before Spiderman 3 - it sucked
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i'm with quint on nearly everything he said: raimi definately gets a pass on sm3, and the horror thing would be dope too. mostly, i hope that they are coming back because the script IS that good.
btw, that spider-man vs magneto thing is just about the worst idea i've heard in a while. -
Whoever first said it is an idiot. I don't know why some jokers want everything "rebooted". Myself, I want new movies instead of ones that are remakes.
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So what you're saying is that he FORCED it to suck?
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Only do it properly!
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Sep 06, 2008 2:43:56 AM CDT
J-Dizzle raimi didn't force it to suck. avi arad wanting venom d
by ironic_name
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iron man is marvel studios silly but true.
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some old dude in a suit, spiderman says something about not spoiling his diaper [as you yanks call nappies].. I'd really like ted raimi to be mysterio, and have him be a convenience store robber with a funny disco thing on his head.. a pop escalation.
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Sep 06, 2008 2:52:17 AM CDT
lizard will menace tobey, but he will only jack off to his son
by ironic_name
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ROBIN
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I see Robin and Spider-Man really making this movie into something special.
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Spider-Man: Hey Robin
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Robin: Kissy Wissy
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http://tinyurl.com/68ev3w
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After Superman 1+2, Superman 3 was weird and off-key, just like Spider-man 3 was to 1+2 in that series. Anyone remember Supes 4? Hoo-boy...
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...Of course Tobey Maguire is back, no one else in hollywood has been falling over themselves to hire the guy in the past few years. I mean he's got two supporting roles lined up in the next couple of years, and his last non Spidey role was 2003's Seabiscuit. Spidey is really the only big paycheck role Maguire has, or will likely ever have, and I think he's smart enough to know that. Raimi on the other hand will likely always have opportunities for work, however he too doesn't seem to have any other really 'big money/big budget' projects lining up at his feet, even after he said that Spidey 3 would be his last, just a few rumours that never panned out, so him coming back for the money is likewise not all that surprising. Dunst on the other hand has enough of an ego to think that she doesn't need any more of this 'silly Spider-Man' shit, so I wouldn't be surprised if her ego trumps her common sense and she doesn't return, or only shows up for a "death cameo" or something.In other news, I don't even really care, I've found even the first two Spider-Man films to be nothing more than merely passable but instantly disposable popcorn films, and the last one was just plain awful for much of it's length, so I'm not exactly thrilled by another Spidey from this team regardless.
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story lines would be good. Leave out the shitty vampire dude though.
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He pulled it of. Ranks third now in my book after DK and Superman the Movie. Kept me on the edge of my seat the whole movie.
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like the rest of us. His masterpiece was followed by a turd. Yes it can happen. Give him Spider-Man 4, he will come up with GUNS BLAZING.
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as it DEFINETELY will hold Raimi on a multitude of tasking levels.
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... then the Spider-Man series will be great as opposed to a trilogy of films with a lackluster (though by no means as bad as many of you are making out) conclusion. Part 3 will be a lull instead of a ROTJ. This love for 'fuck it, let's start all over again' reboots is frankly embarrassing. If reboots become the norm then it will only serve to make films even more disposable than they already are. We'll all end up getting less involved with films in terms of story and character and so on because in the back of our minds we'll be subconsciously preparing for the reboot, wherein everything will change and none of what we are watching on screen will have happened anymore. Beyond that, those who really, really, vocally disliked part 3 are very much in the minority. The film made close to 900 million dollars in world-wide ticket sales, plus another couple of hundred million dollars off of DVD sales. Those who really care about whether the Venom character was given a great storyline and so on are greatly outnumbered by those who just want to watch some thrills and spills for a couple of hours. They know Tobey Maguire as Spider-Man and Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane and so on so why on Earth would it be a good idea for Sony to recast them? For the eighteen people in the World who think Tobey's 'just all wrong because in my head Spider-Man is more this way and he says this like in the comics and wah wah wah...'? I just can't see it happening really. And beyond that it's Sam 'Evil Dead 2' Raimi. Dude's given more than a decade of his life to Spider-Man, cares about the character, etcetera, and this is how you treat him after a stumble? What a bunch of fucking cunts.
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They really really blew it with that ending. I think the film would have been a lot better had Brock only been in the movie and the villain been Sandman and Goblin 2. Early drawings suggested Vulture would have been in the movie too though, and he'd probably have served the same function in the third act that Venom did, so I think people are too quick to say it wasn't Raimi's fault that it sucked. He may or may not have seen the error of too many villains and dropped the third villain, and maybe without the symbiote it all could have been fine. I maintain that Raimi deserves his hits for the way he handled things regarding Venom and the black suit (Symbiote just falling out of the sky next to Parker was simply unforgivable). Also, this series needed the King Pin. I don't care what anyone says, he's a Spider-Man character, Daredevil just borrowed him and the legal shit needs to be cleared up. The animated show Spectacular Spider-Man has handled all of this a 1000 times better, but it also needs to be allowed to use King Pin.
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Just for a year or two? Pretty please? Aside from Batman, they've all pretty much burned out. Hulk; X-Men, Spiderman; Superman; Daredevil; Ghost Rider. Sure Iron Man was a bit of fun, but go take a look at Robocop and then tell me how much fun it was. And Hellboy - well, I know it's a superhero movie taechnically, but it doesn't feel like one, it's more like a fantasy film.
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Yes it is. Spider-Man 3 had its moments but obviously the studio interference dragged it down. I don't hate Spider-Man 3 - it was ambitious, but it was the disjointed script that brought it down. The chances are this screenplay probably owns if it's managed to get these two back.
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I do agree, fans were too hard on the dance scene in Spider Man 3. To say that scene ruined the entire film makes you a fucking idiot. But for you to say 3 is the same quality as 1 is fucking ludicrous!! There were several other factors that killed part 3 that DON'T have to do with that goofy dance scene. The opening 20 minutes of Spider Man 1 is more exciting than the climax in 3, that says something.
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Can you imagine the all-star cast? But, I suppose, the studios would have to see eye to eye.
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Raimi can make it up. The back to back shooting, the Lizard.. all of that, me likes :D
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To say I was disappointed is an understatement, i even got into an argument with one of the security staff afterwards as he claimed I was "ungrateful" for not saying I thought the film was good, talk about pressure to enjoy.
I really, really wanted to love this film and there are some great moments in it, but overall all i keep feeling is "where's Venom" after teasing us with the black suit promo shot ages before the film launched I felt they then stiffed us on Venom, whom I should say I had no issue with Grace playing, I thought he and Howard where welcome cast additions. -
Not just for Spiderman 3 and pissing off Danny Elfman but for killing Freddy vs Jason vs Ash.
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To keep these films fresh, they need a really innovative idea. Simply adding a villain to the mix won't do it. They need to map out these stories better and plan where the character is going to go. I'm sick of these stand alone comic book films that only exist for a villain to be invented and Spidey to fight them. This works for a comic but not for a film. Can anyone really be bothered with more Peter Parker and Mary Jane? They've exhausted that story now!
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Good post. I only disagree with your comment about what people want to see. Back in 1989, people were more than happy to see the Batman version that was presented and praised it to death. Now, in hindsight, B89 no longer looks as impressive because they rebooted the Batman franchise and gave us something much more impressive.
However, I do agree that this reboot nonsense has gone too far. People are calling for a Spidey reboot because he doesn't use artificial web shooters for crying out loud! That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The Raimi films ARE great. There is no need for reboot for at least 10 years. And reboots are pretty normal. They've been rebooting (aka remaking) films for decades. -
Personally, I'd want to see Tombstone as the villain in at least one of them. There are alot of actors who could do great things with that role.
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There weren't NEARLY enough scenes of Spider-Man running in front of flags. I won't be happy until they shoot the ending fight sequence in a flag factory.
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Sadly the Spiderman movies just never felt as though they were set in a real world, and that was only partly due to the CGI. And although I though Maguire was alright, Dunst seemed woefully miscast. So Spiderman 3, although utterly forgettable, wasn't so much a letdown as just more of the same. Unless there looks to be something different and exciting about 4&5 I'll probably end up waiting until they screen on tv. Wish I liked them more.
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The Lizard/Kraven story would be great... but I'd love to see Mysterio played by Bruce Cambell.
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The comics themselves kind of go between goofy self-reference and serious pathos/drama all the time, so I do applaud Raimi for at least attempting to get that part right. Kind of went overboard on part 3, but if he's back for 4, and it is indeed Doc Connors as the villain, hoping he can maintain the balance.
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Haven't read all the posts, so I apologize if I'm repeating whole threads. Yes, Venom mandate bad. Yes, Sandman as U.B.'s killer then forgiveness at end ATROCIOUS! Yes, Peter dancing awful. And what the hell was going on with Harry as Flying Ninja Snowboard Guy (I'm sorry, but that was NOT the Hobgoblin or ANY type of Goblin, it was just stupid - and yes, another element too many.) But let's talk about Gwen for a minute. What the hell possessed them to shoehorn her in so randomly? And how do they get her up in the skyscraper to put her in jeopardy? She's modeling. Um, hellooooo? Isn't MJ the model? And this Gwen is also kinda kicky and sassy and sexy - an MJ trait again. And Bryce Howard is an actual redhead that they slap a blond wig on. Now let's look at Dunst's MJ - bland, vanilla, sweetly pretty, whiny, earnest, goody-goody girl; not any type of "Face it, tiger, you hit the jackpot" knockout. The comparison only points up one thing - they fucked up the female casting from the get-go. Dunst IS Gwen Stacy - and I'm not alone in wanting Dunst's blah character gone (or replaced - give us an actress with some spunk and spark - or go in a different direction with a new girlfriend for Peter (Black Cat anyone?)) My dream, like many of yours, is a reboot with Marvel in control - but that's just laughable with Sony having raked in so much cast. If Sony had any smarts though, they'd pull the Marvel guys in to reshape the series and get it back on track.
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fat baby gorilla..
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I loved that wendigo story - one of the classics of the Macfarlane era!
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is my vote if they go in the direction of a hero crossover.
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...means this has serious fucking potential. If TDK is supposedly HEAT with costumes, I'm all geared up for ZODIAC with masks.
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Maybe in Spidey 4 and 5 we'll get EVEN MORE CRYING! YESSSSS!
And some more REVENGE DANCE SEQUENCES! Just what every Spidey fan wants to watch! This time featuring the SAMBA and the TANGO!
Let's get some more crying villains who are really bad and good at the same time with little cancer daughters who's story has no resolution anyhow!
Let's take some more serious comic-book subject matter (wha?) and turn it into a SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER STRUT where hot women are repulsed by Spider-Man's sexual creepiness!
Go RAIMI, GO! -
He's a talented unique visual director whose work has always been quirky, creepy, humorous, and a little outside the box, perfect for the world of Peter Parker/Spiderman. Be glad James Cameron never got ahold of this franchise...
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Anyone remembers when Spidey 2 was relesed? Everyone on these boards was sucking Raimi's dick, praising the hell out of him and his movie. Then he slips with Spidey 3 and everyone wants to set the guy on fire and piss on him. Bunch of wankers. I'm up for another Spidey flick by Raimi, although I'd rather see him do something else, more smaller and original films. Also, I wish Chris Nolan doesn't do Batman 3, cause he can hardly outdo TDK. And even if he makes a great Batman 3 film but not as great as TDK, you guys are gonna assrape his name just like you're doing Raimi now.
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I read the script for that one, it would make a good movie but it has almost nothing to do with the spidey from the comics. Villains where Electro, who was a rich fucker with an assistant he cant fuck, because he electrocutes her whenever they touch, and sandman who was a huge dumb brute. He was electro's bodyguard or something. Oh, and the organic web shooters originated from this script, but hardly anything else survived. Long story short, I'm glad Raimi got to make his films and not Jim, although his take on the character would be also interesting. And in my opinion spidey 2 shares the no.1 spot with TDK as best superhero film. Hard to decide which is better, cause they are two very different films.
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In that every character in SM 3 had the choice to make for right and wrong, good or evil. And even though Peter was under the influence of the Venom symbiote, he was still able to choose, and in the end, he chose the right thing. The same with the villains, Sandman and Harry chose, and Eddie Brock chose to remain being "bad." And like Dark Knight's Two-Face, the Venom symbiote was the symbol of the choice we make, the fine line between good and evil, the "responsibility" of choice.
It also seemed to me that contrary to the majority opinion that Two-Face and Venom were tacked onto the endings of both films, I felt both villains were always present. Harvey Dent was always Two-Face beneath his normal face, and Venom was always present as the "blob" symbiote, then Dark Spiderman. And at the end of both films, we see a final climactic fruition of those existential symbols of the choice we make, in the traditional comic book image of Two-Face and Venom. -
Thats the Spidey series. What i wouldn't give for a Cameron Spiderman movie. Sam lost his flare the bigger his budget got, think about that for a second, you know its true.
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and I would be all about seeing the Lizard since every other SpiderMan villain is pretty weak...Electro, Vulture, etc. maybe throw in the Black Cat as well.
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SP3 had some nicely shot material. Some of the scenes I didn't mind at all. But for the record here is a list of everything that was goddam terrible about that flick.
The symbiote falls from space and lands yards away from spidey. Peter is inexplicably an egomaniac douchebag from the very next scene. Sandman's kid. Sandman at the scene of uncle bens murder and the police only think to mention it years later. Harry's new and improved super goblin with all new weapons designed by...? Mary Jane becomes a waitress again. That awful attempt to recreate the "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head scene". Harry's amnesia and then recovery. The butler suddenly spills the beans about daddy having killed himself and having been a psychopath. Peter going to a nightclub with his new chick to upset his old chick and dancing about like a drunk monkey. Eddie Brock standing exactly beneath Spidey as he rids himself of the symbiote. Venom's first act is to find Sandman(why?) in an alley (why?) and suggest they team up (why?) and Sandman agrees (why?). The villains kidnap Mary Jane. Harry's change of heart and consequent death. Venoms death. Sandman says "sorry." Spidey say "OK. Bye then". The funeral/ happy ending.
If you bothered to read all that you'd probably gather I think that the writing was just terrible. Really woeful. Dire beyond belief. Fucking lazy as shit.
Other than that I'd say SM3 was OK. I actually liked the bits with Bruce Campbell and J.K. Simmons. And the credits. -
... I love Chabon as a novelist, but I've read his SPIDEY 2 script, and you're waaaaaaaaaay off-base if you think that the film you saw is what he wrote. I don't think his script was very good at all, and there's a reason it was heavily rewritten during production by Alvin Sargent, who has been doing this WELL for a very long time.
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bring it.
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That small minded dummies have with being "First" on a talkback? I have seen posts that say "First fuckers" or "First Bitches" or some stupid variation. Am I missing something? Do you get a prize for being first? Does Harry dance around in your room for you? Unless you get some kind of reward, being the first talkbacker is no different than being second or third. In fact, the "First" is usually a useless post bragging that they are first, with little or no content. Sometimes the total lack of intelligence around here is staggering. Anyways, I commented on my blog about Spiderman 4 & 5.
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I agree with you, 3 was not great but had some good things about it. Overall it was inferior to 1 & 2. But to crucify Raimi for one misstep is fucking retarted and short sighted. I say give Raimi another shot, he has done 3 Spidey films and 2 of them were good, one was not, that is no cause for taking him off the films.
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...To reply to rogueleader66.
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Agreed. Chabon's script was shockingly bad - a surprise/lesson given how good his novels are - and the fact that he still gets more praise for Spider-Man 2 than Sargent is a crime. I suppose the name-recognition factor coupled with the fact that he was not involved with the less-popular Spider-Man 3 is what causes this confusion. Further to my earlier rant I want to add that I am looking forward to what Raimi cooks up for part 4. I tend to think that he will feel as if he has something to prove and that this won't be just a lazy money-making exercise. He does actually give a shit about Spider-Man. He can use the story/character flaws of Spider-Man 3 as a way to ward off further studio-meddling and really let loose this time (and presumably this is new contract time so if Sony want him he's in the position make demands along the lines of 'No forcing me to include characters that I don't want in the film' and so on). He raised the bar with Spidey 2 and arguably Iron Man and certainly The Dark Knight have raised the bar again. I think Raimi is going to come out fighting and I'm really fucking pleased that he's been given the opportunity to do so. Rebooting has worked in the past but that doesn't mean that everything should go down that road. A reboot is like an apology for fucking something up beyond repair the last time out and, whilst I accept that Spider-Man 3 is the lesser of the three films by a substantial margin, I cannot accept that this series is beyond repair.
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I am truly honored
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Could not agree with you more. I also feel Spider Man needs a truly evil merciless villain. Not once ounce of good in him. All of Spider Man's foes were not truly evil, and that would REALLY be a challenge for him. Think about it, Spider Man has never had to really kill anyone. He got out of the way of the glider in 1, Dock Ock sacrificed himself, he let sandman go, Harry was killed by Venom (who was good at that point anyways), and Venom died in the explosion even as Peter was trying to stop him. He needs a villain so evil that he is forced to make life and death choices.
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Of course, it makes perfect sense. I mean, the vulture is old and bald and so is Larry David. There you go, perfect, flawless casting. Nevermind that Larry David isn't really an actor or has ever followed a script or acted like someone other than himself. The important thing is that he is bald and old, and therefore perfect for the Vulture. Everyone knows that you cast the people who already have the same hairstyle as the character they will play. That's why Patrick Stewart had to play Professor X. Nobody in Hollywood could ever just change their hairstyle, no no no. You guys are so brilliant.
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And I could not agree with you more re: FIRST FUCKERS! People who boast about being the first person to post on a talk-back are basically shrieking 'I am a ridiculous cunt' as loudly as they can. One imagines them unable to contain their excitement as they see the new topic appear and go through the pathetic ritual of writing 'First' and then waiting with fists clenched ready to rocket aloft and teeth-gritted ready to exclaim 'YES!' through as the page reloads slower than ever. Fucking pointless cunts, every last one of them, though it's all been said before and they're still at it. Where's your blog at by the way?
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I am glad I am not the only one annoyed by those idiots. I just started my blog, and I am trying to get more traffic to it, it would be great if you would check it out, and even pass along the link to anyone you know. Thanks for asking btw!!! Here is the address - http://movietalktime.blogspot.com/ Hope you like it!
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the whole reason spiderman 3 was such a clusterfuck is because of sandman. they made up that shit about him being uncle ben's killer, and everytime they cut to him they're just taking you away from what the story is about... fucking HARRY OSBORN! franco is what made that movie, and venom wouldn't have been that bad if he had lived. but then at the end, sandman just decides out of nowhere that he's done fighting and floats away. fuck that. he's the only reason i don't really like that movie.
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and i'm so over raimi spiderman flicks. the more control he has, the shittier it gets. i want a reboot, or at least just a different director. kill of m.j. too. she's a selfish cunt.
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Right now I'm all about The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon. Great first season. Can't wait for more.
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Well, besides oodles of cash, with the promise that he can perform without the mask even more this time around. The signs are all there in Spidey 3: the removal of masks at the drop of a hat, the crying, the singing, the dancing, and all the other self-indulgent, thespian crapola that far too many actors insist on performing in order to demonstrate "range" and how they've "honed their craft" -- completely disregarding the needs of the story or the characters. I guaran-goddamn-tee you that before they signed for the trilogy promises were made that they'd be able to perform all that shit for their own egos' sake.
Like Quint, I really liked Spidey 1 and LOVED Spidey 2. Hell, I even thought Tobey was perfect for the role. I've always loathed Dunst's MJ, and she comes close to scuppering S1 and S2 several times. It's a testament to those two movies' strength that they survive despite her miasma of suckitude. However, with Spidey 3, this particular take on the Spidey mythos (hate that word) is irreversibly tainted. Honestly, how many of you felt relieved when Parker went back to MJ in Spidey 3? Even with Gwen Stacy and Betty Brant readily available? It made me sick and hate Maguire's take on Parker for the first time.
The ONLY way I'll pay money to see a Spider-Man movie again is if they do a reboot. New director and new actors. If they insist on MJ as a character, then for fuck's sake use someone who, oh I dunno, actually RESEMBLES THE CHARACTER IN AT LEAST ONE RECOGNIZABLE WAY! Get someone like Rachel McAdams.
Fuck Spidey 3, fuck it with a rubber dick. -
Sep 06, 2008 6:32:08 PM CDT
Sandman completed the trilogy of surrogate father villains
by chishu_ryu
In the films, Norman Osborn/Green Goblin and Prof. Octavius/Doc Octopus were both surrogate fathers to Peter Parker, each had a personal connection to Peter Parker, had a part in his development as a man and Spiderman. In keeping with this father/villain themed trilogy, Sandman completes the triumvirate by being the man responsible for Peter finally understanding Uncle Ben's words, "With great power comes great responsibility," when he inadvertently kills Ben, Peter's original surrogate father. And it is Sandman that also inadvertently makes Peter finally forgive the murder of his Uncle, and finally come to terms with it. In that way, Sandman is unseemingly perhaps the most important of the three "father figure" villains.
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...I don't mean a new origin story. I mean continue with the established characters, but use new actors and get a new director. Change the FLAVOR.
Keep Simmons, though. He's the best thing about the series. -
Aside from turning Parker into a total wimp (slowly going broke delivering pizzas, pussy-whipped by a truly irritating Mary Jane), there was possibly the corniest sequence in comic movie history (an injured Parker carried around like Jesus, with a subway car full of passengers assuring him that the entire city of New York can keep a secret) and a fairly uninteresting villain with a preposterous back-story (fusion power is just putting a miniature sun in your living room, I need the crazy-ass arms to make it happen, and oh, I'm not really a villain at all...just a tad obsessive). All this, and Raimi couldn't keep all the balls in the air...the pacing was infuriating, starting and stopping over and over.
I'm so glad Dark Knight put this in its place for all time. -
that Marvel and Sony were quite understandably furious when at comic con, dunst spilled the beans about the villains in Spiderman 3. Her character will remain off screen for the rest of the Series. as pusnishment for dunst blabbing. her attitude during interviews was "I dont give a shit about this franchise anymore". Dunst looked bored.
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Sep 06, 2008 7:02:48 PM CDT
Simmons IS the only good thing about the current Spider-Man fran
by iforgotabout19
Spider-Man's a menace, Beecher
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But his performance in Spiderman 3 was the best thing in the entire film. Oustanding. I lvoed the comic timing he brought to the role. I know..I know he is supposed to be the egomaniac. Bruce campbell. Wow. He should play the villain. or Dylan Baker. or both. How do you make a comic film with a lizard like villain and keep your target audience.
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what Sam Eliot was to Thunderbolt Ross in Hulk.
Brilliant piece of casting, that. -
IRON MAN! Taking a cue from the terrible "Civil War" storyline in Marvel, Robert Downey Jr is the new "villain" for Spidey to come to blows with! I know this because I overheard rumors of it while they were shooting Tropic Thunder!
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Peter Parker and Tony Stark holding hands in Satan's Alley... *shudder*
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The studio really fucked this one up!! By locking in May 2007 as a release date for SM3, Sony fucked Raimi in the ass! With such a short window between the two, re-writes and a long post-production just wasn't possible. And I'm sure Raimi would have loved to do something else before SM3, much like Chris Nolan did before TDK.
Greedy fuckers! -
if not Pygram, who would own the role, Ben Kingsley would fit perfectly as well.
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The Jackal and the spider clone.
Just change the story so it isn't a farce like they ended up with in the comics.
Marvel had a great story going, but then they got greedy and tried to extend it to far and ruined it. -
Sep 06, 2008 9:21:39 PM CDT
Chichu Ryan just compared Spider Man 3 to The Dark Knight
by industrykiller!
Just in case he must be easily discredited later, which is more likely than not.
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because YOU. NEVER. CAN. HAVE. TOO. MUCH. DEAD. UNCLE. BEN.
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Should create the Spider slayers for either Spidey 4 or 5, that would be cool, he hates Spider Man, and here is the perfect opportunity for him to really let loose. I would love to see that, they were cool in the comics and the technology exists to make them on screen.
Visit my blog-http://movietalktime.blogspot.com/ -
and he has done that well. peter wasn't a pussy, he was just shy and into science. replace tobey with jake gyllenhall since audiences are now conditioned to expect a crybaby peter parker. and btw all the other retards in the group home LOVED spidey 3. and tater tots.
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you can force yourself to like Spider-Man 3, but it takes a bit of work. It's like winning the no-prize, you have to come up with explanations for the shit that doesn't make any sense in you own head, and the reward is a movie that you can enjoy. It's the same way people managed to enjoy Titanic and Pay It Forward. The only difference is that Spidey is a character that is worth the effort.
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First of all...I'm glad to hear that Raimi & Tobey are back. Both have all the quirks that it takes to make a Spidey flick seem...real. Heh heh. Anywho, secondly...I’ll be agreein’ with several fellars on board…Raimi does indeed need to make Evil Dead 4 & the Lizard needs to be the villain. Kraven needs to come to town huntin’ him, & Spidey needs to save Doc Connors from Kraven. Raimi could shoot this one the same way he did Spidey 2 & add in some underground sewer shots & the Lizard takin’ over Central Park with Kraven soon to follow the big game. Raimi’s horror bits could fit well in a scenario like that. Could be sweet.
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Is NOT about a girl. I'm one of the people who don't want anyone back but the bugle cast and Aunt May. I hated Dunst but in the third movie I managed to hate everyone! I'm tired of overly dorkish Spider-man who is obsessed with Mary Jane. He's a nerd but not that nerdy! I'm tired of him having to save MJ at the end of every movie. I'm tired of the villains dieing and learning Spider-man's identity. It's become a formula and it sucks. Do something fresh. This story should be about Spider-man, and only partially about Peter's relationship problems. It's not about crying and phone tag. I like Raimi. I just think he was in position to do what he wanted after 2 successes, He didn't have to listen and green light a script riddled with plot conveniences and awful dialog especially one where the plot is narrated by once by Toby and another by awful news reporters. Also get rid of New yorkers love Spider-man to much in this. They should never be that friendly. I like it when no one trusts Spider-man not when he's in a position to act like a braggart and a show off.
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he needs to keep hos mask on more. If they need to adjust it so that it looks more apparent that the actor is talking then do that, please.
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The guy who played Doctor connors should also come back heh. and Ben if you really need flash backs. Going back to that hurt the third movie a great deal though.
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Has he ever done any interviews, given his side of the story? Anyone know? I guess it'll all come out one day but I'm really curious to hear his views on the hows and whys of the trainwreck that was Spider-man 3. Oh, and same goes for Spielberg on Indy 4!!
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If you read the Spiderman comics, particularly the Stan Lee issues, the stories were most importantly about Peter Parker's relationship and friendship issues. Many of the villains, like Lizard and Goblin, had a personal relationship with Spidey/Peter, which made the hero/villain dynamic a little less black and white. While Spidey had to beat the Lizard, he also had to save him as Dr. Connors. This sentiment is superiorly echoed in Raimi's films, who really gets what the "old school" Spiderman was about. In the 60's, Stan Lee made Marvel stand out from DC by giving his heroes, particularly the Fantastic Four and Spiderman, personal issues like family and relationship problems. It was never just about good guy vs. evil bad guy. Again, Sam Raimi gets it.
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All the cast were tired and needed a break. They were all bored at least dunst looked and sounded like. that during interviews. Tobey maguire cant and couldnt carry off the duel spider man roles. The main problem with the movie is one that shared by all films these days. there is no element of suprise left. You see all the movies in the advertisements. The response to Peter Marrying Mary jane watson went down really badly. I saw a news item about it on tv. The fans didnt like it all. I think it revolved around deal with the devil. I could be wrong. as the decision to unmask spiderman.
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You Raimi bashers are like J. Jonah Jameson, never happy unless you're bringing him down. "Sam Raimi needs to be run out of town! He's a crook! A menace! A hack! And now I've got Spiderman 3 to prove it! If this Raimi character doesn't want to play by the rules, then we're ruling him out!"
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The Grimily brothers, identical triplets, AKA the “New Enforcers” secret minions of the original Green Goblin dispense with their cover identities (wrestling MC, theater usher and restaurant Maitre D) to plot the downfall of Spiderman. The casting is obvious.
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Sep 07, 2008 11:01:26 AM CDT
BenBraddock, if u want a little more understanding of SM3
by chishu_ryu
I'd suggest listening to Sam Raimi and the cast's audio commentary for Spiderman 3. It's got some real enlightening moments of what Raimi was doing with this film, and all the films, and how SM3 completes the themes and arc he started with the first film.
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The Horror...!! I suppose I could just listen though.. ;-)
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I know all that. I didn't say it shouldn't be there but it doesn't mean it has to dominate 3 films. It's not with his friends I have issues with, it's his reaction to Mary Jane as the "only girl for me! O boy! Gee wilikers!" Honestly, he was always dedicated to making it work between him and Gwen not MJ if you are talking about Stan's work. MJ was a completely vacuous mush head who didn't begin to develop a brain until Gwen died. The Aunt May character always like her, but as Stan was writing it, MJ's ditsiness quickly got on Peter's nerves and he never thought twice about her, again, until she got serious. She went out with Harry as I recall, and treated him like a dormat, only using him to get close to Peter who was going out with Gwen at the time. She's actually worse in the movie, because she's written sort of scummy. Didn't she even steal money from her waitress job? You need a lot of looks to have appeal after being so high maintenance, don't you think?
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supporting cast, then why did he not strengthen the Flash Thompson character? After all, Peter is going to need all the friends he can get now that MJ is the only one left!
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why ppl think the Marvel controlled movies are any good. Hulk was lacking, well, a plot. And, Iron Man didn't deserve to even go to a theatre. I mean, the guy with the multi-billion dollar metal suit's gonna fight the man who doesn't make that much in a week...C'mon! Seriously, though, the only interesting thing Marvel is doing is creating a coherent universe. But, let's be honest. They're only doing that to set up another franchise so they can sell more toys and lunchboxes.
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So this studio Marvel, they're in it for profit? Screw them then, I'll stick with all the other movie studios who are in it for the art.
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