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More on SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE according to Guillermo via our friend at Variety!
Hey folks, Harry here... here in BOSTON that is! AICN long time writer - John Robie - is getting married and I have to witness this for myself - as well, that's what friends do on these occasions. Meanwhile, I just plugged into my over-priced internet connection here at the glorious Omni Parker House - and I find an email from Michael Fleming regarding an extended comment from Guillermo regarding SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE. Kudos to Michael for not letting the extended comment wilt with the ravages of time. And VARIETY... I know y'all have tight word counts for the print edition - y'all should seriously allow your writers to have online special editions of feature articles.
Harry,
I saw your report on Guillermo's movie directing plans, and saw that one of your readers wanted to know more about Slaughterhouse-Five. Though I didn't have room in my Variety story to carry Guillermo's elegant description of each of these projects, here's what he said about Slaughterhouse, and feel free to use if it's helpful:
“When I read the book and had the fortune of seeing the movie not far apart, I enjoyed both. But I thought that the way Vonnegut plays with and juxtaposes time was perhaps too edgy to be tackled on film at that time. The key for me was how in the book Billy Pilgrim becomes `unstuck’ in time. This allows for storytelling that can be eminently pure cinema, not so linear, where you can jump back from one time period to another, and present a reality where these juxtaposed time periods meld together. It can be less traditional and more adventurous, and presented a bit more boldly.”
Hope you're well. Cheers. Mike Fleming
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Sep 04, 2008 9:36:22 PM CDT
Screw Hobbit, this is the damn movie DelToro should be doing!
by tallboy66
Amazing book, and he's going off to do the Hobbit and The Not A Book movie. Damnation.
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This is EXACTLY what a S5 movie needs to be. It's Vonnegut's masterpiece, it's one of the best American books ever written. I hope that our man Guillermo can keep the staggering pathos that drives the book though. You hear me? Make me cry with this movie.
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holy crap!
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If there is a God, Bryan K. Vaughan and Drew Goddard will be asked to adapt it.
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For that previous post, I mean I didnt even read the piece!!
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At GOP convention that is
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Good gracious, has any one actually seen the old Slaughterhouse Five version made almost four decades ago? It may have been good at the time, but to today's standards it is balls. I'm not even sure how they got away calling it Slaughterhouse Five it's so loose an adaptation. And if there's one person who could do it, and make it properly with today's CGI, it is Del Toro. He even proved it with these comments. Producers should start lining up like three minutes ago.
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Sep 04, 2008 10:02:07 PM CDT
Hopefully Kilgore Trout appears in this version (SPOILERS)
by thekeenguy
George Roy Hill's film version was excellent except that, by cutting out the Kilgore Trout character, it removes a key element of the novel... which is that Billy Pilgrim isn't actually unstuck in time, but that he came to believe he was after the brain injury from the plane crash and constructed this Tralfamadore fantasy based on elements of Trout's novels. Hill's film basically presents the sci-fi fantasy as if it's actually happening, and it sounds like, based on Del Toro's quote, he doesn't get that either.
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Sep 04, 2008 10:02:24 PM CDT
CloneWars, everybody is watching McCain. Sadly.
by stereotypical evil archer
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Great book? Or greatest book?
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I have heard other people stating this theory as well and also many people saying that it was all real and Billy truly was unstuck in time and Tralfamadore was real. When I read it I assumed it was all real. Anyone know what version Vonnegut truly intended?
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Sep 04, 2008 10:15:06 PM CDT
If any author is difficult to bring to the big screen... (beside
by gravitysrainbow
it'd have to be Vonnegut. Would rather see someone tackle BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS.... oh stupid Bruce Willis! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120618/
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sorry for the cut off the title was meant to say besides Thomas Pynchon
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That's what we all want.
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but it'd be great if they could get Nolte to reprise his role as Howard Campbell, the last free American..
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it was those around him that believe he has lost it and created a fantasy life...and i thought hill's version caught that completely...i loved it when star trek tng did a tip of the cap to vonnegut in their final episode
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For those saying they read it as though it all actually happened, there's nothing wrong with having that interpretation. The point is that the book presents it so that there is a non-fantasy explanation. The book lays it out so that if you were to arrange everything chronologically, you can see how Billy began referencing the fantasy only after the plane crash, and like I said, much of the material from Trout's novels are incorporated. George Roy Hill's film, however, did not treat it that way, which takes away a great deal of the book's complexity...namely, the various levels of reality/fantasy presented. I suspect that Del Toro's film would have the same problem.
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Yeah, that final Star Trek: The Next Generation episode was very clever, indeed.
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Anyone want to lay it down now?
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like what does he end up saying about everything else... dammit i want to know
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Sep 04, 2008 11:10:27 PM CDT
RE: Screw Hobbit, this is the damn movie DelToro should be doing
by melvin_pelvis
no, no, no
At The Mountains of Madness, first, then these other movies. -
does overcharge for the internet really bad, stayed there last years and it was crazy. Restaurant isn't cheap either.
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is right. Breakfast of Champions is hilarious. But why not go straight to the top and try Cat's Cradle.
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Sirens of Titan could be wild. But I'd settle for a good depiction of Kilgore Trout and Eliot Rosewater
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Come a block down the street from the Omni-Parker to Borders. I'll totally make you a free Cold-Brewed Caramel Mocha.
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I'm actually quite moved by Del Toro's intricate understanding of the necessity to retain Vonnegut's structure of SL5. He always seems to strike me with a rather incredible sense of depth on not just projects he's working on, but on story telling, and of great pieces of fiction from all over. He is a truly well educated guy in terms of all the things we as 'geeks' have clung to since our infancy. This is why he would be an excellent mind to bring into the development process of this novel, I hope it happens. But if not, the book will always remain an unrivaled masterwork (except from other Vonnegut works, of course).
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That sounds promising. Del Toro is one deep dude and tallented artist. I love watching the bonus features on any of his movies, especially when he breaks out the sketchbook. Can't wait to see what he has in store for The Hobbit also.
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hence the screenname.
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...certainly after watching the disjointed crap-fest that was Hellboy 2. Del Toro is extremely overrated and at his best when working in cinema away from Hollywood. All of his American films appear to be over-burdened with CGI and all share the same 'dark', 'studio-bound' visual style. There is one man who understands how to manipulate the convoluted narrative structure, the necessary emotional charge and create the kinds of diversionary moments to fully realise this masterpeice - and his name is Christopher Nolan.
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That is all.
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Not all great books should be made into movies. This is one. I don't think the studios will want to pay for this to be filmed. Not a big audience for this book anymore. Could be done independently though.
The original adaptation was pretty terrible. I'm more excited about the prospect of Fahrenheit 451. -
Harry, my wife and I stayed there a year ago and found out that the hotel is haunted. We didn't see any ghosts but it was very mysterious how all my cash disappeared while I was there! Maybe it was all of the Boston Cream Martini's? It's also the home to the first Boston Cream pie - which was pretty good.
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Has everyone forgotten that George Roy Hill already did a fantastic adaptation? Even Vonnegut himself loved it.
Someone needs to tackle a different Vonnegut story. One that'll adapt well to film, like Bluebeard. -
Hell, if hollywood isn't doing it, who's got the rights? Sort of a Forrest Gump meets Shawshank vibe to it.
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Come down to Chinatown tonight, so I can take pictures of you.
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Please let this happen.
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I remember reading that some time ago. Actually, I don't think that Vonnegut's work translates well to film.
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Jerry Lewis. Madeline Kahn. Awful.
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Read the book. The Dresden sequence is really the only thing I'd be interested in seeing. But there had better not be any bullsh*t revisionist historian writing saying that it was all unnecessary and we should have "talked" to the Nazis. The whole thing could have been avoided if the League of Nations had actually bitch-slapped them after they invaded Austria instead of saying "STOP! OR WE'LL SAY 'STOP!' AGAIN!"
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I don't know why it doesn't get more love.
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The people who say that the bombing of Dresden was unnecessary, are not saying we should have talked to the Nazi's.
There's a MAJOR difference between bombing a civilian population, town, infrastructure and EVERYTHING until it looks like the surface of the moon, and simply waging war.
There's a reason we hold up the bombings of Coventry and Dresden as some of the worst atrocities of the war. -
Whether its real or not the message behind the masterpiece has never been vonfused or unclear as mentioned above. "So it goes" explains the entire book in three words. Vonnegut is one of the most unambiguous authors meaning wise and SH5 is a masterpiece and one of the best books ever written.
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What's weird is I don't remember seeing the guy play Billy Pilgrim in anything else. Ron Leibman (almost typed Perlman) as Lazzaro was pure menace, and Boss Hogg himself plays Billy's father-in-law. Sure, the sci-fi elements were a little wack, but who cares when the scenes involve Valerie Perrine? Oh yeah, and the guy from Riptide is the chronic masturbator son. The only reason this movie got overshadowed was because of MASH and Catch-22; it's heartbreaking and thought-provoking on its own.
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...and i also loved your middle name as render by elp. which should not be confused with el-p -- tuned mass damper, baby/yeah that's the shit!!!where was i? right! the first _slaughterhouse_ filmization was truly brilliant, george roy hill's finest work, very fluid and melancholy. felt closer in spirit, if i may be permitted to work the room a little bit, to _gravity's rainbow_, or at least the "in the zone" portion, than the brisk unstuck-in-time exposition of the vonnegut novel. i certainly would love to see del toro tackle any vonnegut -- ron perlman as kilgore trout, anyone?
(and, damn, gravitysrainbow, leobloom...when did this become the 20th c. literature seminar? i ain't complaining, fanlads -- i'm SHOCKED!) -
its a great movie and no one has seen it.
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Damn right. "Mother Night" is one of the simpler Vonnegut narratives, by which I mean, its one of his best but least flashy novels, so it gets no love. Likewise the movie, which does a fantastic job getting the tone and philosophy of the book right, but regrettably never seems to have found an audience. Great cast, great direction, great source material. Sigh. At least we'll always have Bruce Willis drag in "Breakfast of Champions"
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Sep 05, 2008 12:09:25 PM CDT
btw, for those who doubt del Torro's understanding of the book
by subtlety
Just because he wants to set up the film as 'pure cinema' i.e. treating the 'unstuck in time' device more or less literally... doesn't mean he doesn't understand that its all probably in Billy's head. Look at "Pan's Labyrinth"... the great thing about that is how seriously he treats the fantasy, while still completely (or almost completely) acknowledging that it IS fantasy. Tralfamadore is real because to Billy, it IS real, and the movie should reflect that (just like the book does) even if it also gives us reason to doubt that reality.
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That was a festival of vintage boobs.
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ABSOLUTELY NO NEED IN THIS POINTLESS REMAKE. Also, Del Torro is overrated.
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Sep 05, 2008 12:44:31 PM CDT
George Roy Hill...Nailed the feel, missed the essence
by adrian marcato
The opening show of Hill's SL5, with Billy Pilgrim running through the snow is hauntingly beautiful. His flash to Billy as an adult, typing, is also quite genius. However, while we do get a wonderful and beautiful film, it does not actually capture the central theme of the story: Time is not a linear entity, it is all encompassing, all point line together. "We're al trapped here in the amber of time, there is no when..." Hill's adaptation, while wonderfully elegant in places, suffers from just a few minor problems: Makeup is one. It is noble to see them use Billy's age with makeup in a stylized way, but it was the performance from Michael Sacks who really did capture who Billy was/is. Lazzaro looks like a man in makeup, which sadly took me out of his pivotal moment with Billy. The linear narrative is present, but the tangential expressional passages are mostly taken out. There is simply no way to make a Vonnegut film without at least incorporating some of his majestic prose deviations (Much as Burroughs' is in Cronenberg's Naked Lunch). The humor of the novel lies solely in the narration, which while omniscient is predicated with a brief anecdote about the author himself researching the book you are about to read (another section omitted from Hill's), this frames our perception around the fact that we are placing our trust in the analysis of a seemingly wandering, and passive individual, but also in a 'true' story, or at least one 'based on a true story.' It is Vonnegut's little twitches that make the novel pop beyond the story of time travel and war and aliens. Take this passage from the prologue/ chapter 1:
"Well I Know," she said. "You'll pretend you were men instead of babies, and you'll be played in the movies by Frank Sinatra and John Wayne or some of those other glamorous, war-loving, dirty old men. And war will look just wonderful, so we'll have a lot more of them. And they'll be fought by babies like the babies upstairs..."
We need Vonnegut's voice now more then ever in a time like this. I miss you Kurt, we all do. -
You might be right about Del Toro not having picked up on that element of the book, or disagreeing with it, but if there's one thing you can take heart in, it's that 'Pan's Labyrinth' was constructed in a similar fashion -- that it was all real, but told in a way where what was really going on was ambiguous and (until the end) open to interpretation.
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...even through the end. Ofelia's escape from her room (and the chalk on the desk) is the only real tell. The other stuff that happens at the end... the labyrinth opening up (unreliable because it's only seen from her point of view) and the flower blooming on the dead tree (not necessarily impossible) can go both ways. So... Del Toro understands the value of blurring the lines between fantasy and reality in storytelling... and it may have even been what attracted him to the project in the first place (but that's just a guess on my part).
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...Unless Guillermo has magiacally gained a massive increase in talent since Hellboy 2, he needs to just stay away from yet another raping of Vonneguts work. Let him fuck up, or maybe even succeed at a lovecraft Adaptation. The Hobbit seems more his go. Just stay away from this book.
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Del Toros biggest failings after his magical abillity to make everything look fake and over designed, yet flat at the same time, is his abillity to structure the most lazy, pointless and cliched scripts imaginable. However, with Hellboy 2, he managed to improve on the look of his films, and he stuffed it with so many interesting, colourful and creative elements, that it overrid the completely unused pregnancy angle and the whole fantasy film stock story device of some magical item split up that you gotta re-unite to take control of some great power. But Vonnegut? There is absolutely nothing in Del Toros resume that indicates he could do this. Totally left field.
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GDT is a creative dude, for sure. Undeniably. Pan's Labyrinth is visually amazing, metaphorically touching, and i like the way it works on two levels and yet blurs the lines between the fantasy and realtiy, creating a sort of third level. But in my opinion it doesn't really have that much depth at all. It *looks* great but the more I think about the symbolism the more I realize how shallow it actually is. And good god, Hellboy 2... also known as "The Pan's Labyrinth Victory Lap". Fusing a nearly-identical-in-appearance-to-Pan's-Labyrinth fantasy universe to a preexisting comic book universe is not worth Star Wars comparisons for chrissake.But. All that being said. In Devil's Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth GDT has shown himself really capable in at capturing the horrific reality of war, and that's something nobody's touched on here yet: Vonnegut's disgust with war is a HUGE part of Slaughterhouse-5. If there's a saving grace to the idea of this project, it ain't del Toro's willingness to make a movie that is 'pure cinema' (whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean). It's his understanding of just how ugly war can be.
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