Cool News
"Crusade" miscellaneous / "GvsE" web site on-line !!!
Glen here...
...with a few brief newsbits for the weekend.
Crusade miscellaneous
In no particular order:
** Don't know if this has hit the Net elsewhere yet, but I thought I would mention that the
soundstages used to film Babylon 5 and its spinoff series Crusade are now being
used to film the CBS / Sammo Hung television series Martial Law.
** In other news: ratings for Crusade's second episode ("The Long Road") dropped
substantially. Overall number of households watching the series fell 29% from Crusade's
first week; adult viewers 18-49 dropped 40% since the first episode; teenage viewers dropped
52%; and so forth.
The first episode of Crusade pulled a borderline but respectable rating, but these
diminishing numbers (likely fueled by increased competition from South Park and basketball)
certainly will not help the show's cause.
** The message boards and chatrooms at the official Babylon 5 website (HREF="http://www.thestation.com">www.thestation.com) are being closed effective Monday June
21.
Amidst cries this move is an effort to quell the increasing level of discord and dissent currently
being voiced about the franchise by long-time B5 followers, HREF="http://www.thestation.com">THESTATION's official announcement read as
follows:
Comlink and Cultural Center have become a hindrance to
doing the job of serving the members."
The rest of the web-site will be re-configured and re-designed to make the site "more
responsive and easier to navigate".
** Speaking of closures: I know I had initially promised to have Talkbacks open for all 13 episodes
of Crusade.
To be honest, when I made this promise I was not expecting to have to spend so much time
moderating the discussion board. As anyone who has known me for more than a day can attest:
time is something I have very little of.
I have received numerous messages from people complaining of harassment because they
voiced their feelings about the show - either pro or con. Several participants have had to be banned
from the boards due to their personal attacks on other readers (both posted and through e-mail). I
wasn't expecting this to be such a mad house, and I wasn't expecting so many complaints from
people trying to participate in what the hoped would be a civil discourse.
A such, I am considering closing the Talkbacks for the remainder of the series. I can be
convinced otherwise - and if the level of interest in continuing the Crusade Talkbacks is high
enough, I might be persuaded. But as it stands, it's just a mess, and there are a lot of pissed-off
people. M y inclination is to discontinue the process effective immediately. I can not wrangle the
passions of those who feel so strongly about this project - one way or another.
Which is sad in a way, because I admire such passion (both pro and con) - they just
don't seem to be merging very well in this particular endeavor...
GvsE website on-line
I've received many message from people asking about a new TV series called GvsE
(also known as Good -vs- Evil. In answer to many questions, yes, there should be
some GvsE coverage in Coaxial's immediate future.
In the meantime, the GvsE website can be accessed by HREF="http://www.gvse.com">CLICKING HERE!
Glen
If you send a message to the above address & bounces back to you, HREF="mailto:glenoliver@hotmail.com">send mail to a back-up address!
Or call:
(512) 347-1992
Mail can be sent to:
Glen Oliver
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
USA
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I know that it must be irritating for you to have to police so many rabid posters, but please consider leaving the Talkbacks up for CRUSADE. Now that they're closing down our other meeting places, we need this one even more. I'm upset as well by the childish behavior of some of us, but please don't penalize everyone else for their faults. -Dawn
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I ask a simple question: Should the actions of the foolish be allowed sway over those who wish but to express their honest views? This is a slippery slope indeed!
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I have been attacked in the past. But hay thats what you get when you have a passionate beleife in something. As long as you dont threatin killing me im ok and I can take up for myself. Simply keep the boards up and put a disclaimer in them saying your not going to be the mediator. That way maybe those people will leave you alone Glen. And they can still attack me and others :)
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They're closing the chat rooms? In other words, thestation.com is only getting complaints so they're jumping ship. And damn, people aren't watching? Dang it, the first episode was crap, but you have to give it more time than one episode. Farscape's first episode sucked, but people are watching that show! Damn, this is just a sad state of affairs for Sci-Fi fans.
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Hola, Glen. Here's another request to keep the boards open, or at least try it again next week. Personal attacks are a problem I've noticed at AICN in general, but usually it seems that most people are polite, or at least civil enough to be able to discuss things without the personal attacks. I don't have that many people with whom to talk about CRUSADE where I live, and I look forward to the talk backs every week. Perhaps you could put a warning at the top of next week's CRUSADE talk back stating that it will be the last if the personal attacks don't stop. Let's see if we can police ourselves.
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It has come to my attention in private email from Glen that he, and several other people, thought that in The Long Road talkback I was implying that he is a Troll. I have never thought Glen is a Troll, and I obviously miscommunicated the point I was trying to make in major and embarrassing way. I have already apologized to Glen in private email for the misunderstanding, and I apologize again in public for any offense anyone may have taken at my statements. I think Glen is a great guy, and I love Ain't It Cool News, which has great articles I read every day.
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I have to be honest and add support to the fact that the TalkBacks have become a problem. I have spoken with Glen on several occasions about how policing the TalkBacks has become difficult. If it were a matter of simply deleting offensive posts and banning the rare poster, that might be made a managable task. I myself have monitored the TalkBacks for Glen once or twice, when he was busy with other AICN business. But now? I don't know. Maybe the TalkBacks are more trouble than they're worth. I posted *one* message in the Crusade TalkBack, and someone has taken to sending me email filled with obscenities. Although it is the work of only one person, this could have only been as a result of the TalkBacks, as it is the only place I use this particular email account, and I believe I have seen the person on the TalkBacks in the past. Do we advocate shutting the TalkBacks down? I don't know anymore. I once believed the TalkBacks were a good thing. As much as I would be the first person to say cite the phrase "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I will defend your right to say it", when a public forum becomes a source of personal attacks directed specifically at a person, I have to question the forum. I just don't know. Perhaps we should take my experience and look at it from Glen's point of view. I am pretty anonymous around here, and I received offensive email. Imagine what Glen must get.
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I'll make this short but sweet - it's been my experience on the net that public message boards are a source of no end of idiocy, trouble, and blather. Now, before everyone gets all in a tizzy over this, let me say that while I have not posted to the Crusade talkbacks nor any other for that matter, I have read through them all. For the most part, what I observed was that very few people had anything to add to the conversation (or lack thereof) except for "me too" posts - posts that do nothing but say again something that has already been discussed, without adding any real substance. A good example of this is the number of posts talking about Chen - most, if not all of the ones I read were the exactly the same in their content. Very few people that I recall offered up any kind of actual discussion about his music, save to say that it sucks and B5's music was better. As a matter of fact, I don't recall a whole lot of -any- posts that offered much substance either. It's this reason that I say shut them down - this so-called "discussion" is in fact nothing of the sort. There are other boards, other places to discuss this, AICN will not be hurt in the least by thier removal, nor will it benefit from thier restoration.
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I really don't see why the board should be watched over in the first place. I think people should be able to say whatever they want. But I suppose I understand that things can't sink into sheer anarchy, either. As for the "me too" responses someone complained about; I appreciate hearing them because a statement has more weight if it's a general consensus as opposed to one person's opinion. Reading the CRUSADE talkback, I noticed that A LOT of people dislike Chen's music. If not for the "me too's," it wouldn't have sunk in that maybe this was something I should really pay attention to. Like I said in the CRUSADE talkback, the talkback is more fun and interesting than CRUSADE itself. Glen, if you shut down the talkbacks out of concern for your time, I'll understand, but if you shut them down because the immaturity of a few people, I will be most disappointed.
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Glen here...In answer to a most legitimate question which seems to be coming my way a great deal over the last few hours: WHY do I not simply let the CRUSADE Talkbacks go whatever direction they end up going w/o excercising any moderation or editorial influence over them? Fair enough. I hope my answer does not sound arrogant or prissy - because I really do not mean it that way at all. BUT, I suppose the answer is: when I look at the Internet I see countless newsgroups and various boards that are unpoliced, unpleasant, and just plain ugly. I know many people (including myself) feel uncomfortable posting in such places, because they feel like they will be open to immediate (and highly visible) attack on said forums. I want(ed) the boards at Coaxial to be different: a place where people's opinions...no matter what they may be...could be openly expressed without fearing some sort of personal repercussion or persecution. While most people behave nicely in most discussions, and most conversations unfold pleasantly and maturely - clearly this is not always the case. As such, if I want my boards to be clean and evenhanded for all - I've gotta be on the lookout. I've gotta exercise some control over the proceedings. Not because of a power trip on my part, not because I think most people are children, not because I am waiting to censor ideas. Because I don't want Coaxial's Talkbacks to degrade into a slimey hell like so many other message boards on the Net (including some on this very site). I am not *satisfied* having my site be like so many other sites and newsgroups. I am not *satisfied* knowing my readership...as a whole...wants something I did not take the time to give them: a nice place to talk. If that's arrogant, pompus, idealistic, or wrong-headed of me - I apologize. But for whatever it's worth, I think my heart's in the right place, and I really do mean what I am saying.**Glen**
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This would be a big mistake Glen.
There is always an element of verbal abuse going on in ALL the forums (mainly in The Phantom Menace chatback). It's just one of the negative disadvantages of running such service.
I'm sure I speak for most AICN readers when I say that I really enjoy reading ALL comments. If some get easily offended (probably Trel fans out to cause trouble), then they shouldn't read or post.
Don't let a small handful spoil it for the vast number of B5/Crusade fans who are keen to discuss what is promising to be another unique and highly watchable sci-fi show.
Please Glen, don't do it. -
Where did you get this data on ratings? Is there a web page for this info? Please post any of this info, thanks!
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I've read Glen's comments and I can understand his POV. Given there are plenty of forums to post comments on Crusade from USENET to AOL, I understand his feeling that if he can't provide a definable difference such as making this the "civil" board, why bother?
I've noticed that B5 fandom has generally evolved into a much more contentious thing than it was when I first joined it back 1996. It's much more lined up into feuding camps, particularly over Crusade.
This forum isn't the only place that has had this problem. It happened on the Fan Club websites as well.
Fortunately, the mailing lists I belong to are still pleasant. -
I can certainly understand your point of view as to why the Talkbacks are problematic. But I have to reiterate: Does the actions of one person, or a few people, or several people, dictate the fate of the great majority who simply use this forum as common ground on which to discuss and debate?
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There are still the forums people. Post all you want over there...
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I recognize and deeply believe that it would be wrong to shut down the Talk Backs because of one person, or even if it were a small handful of people. But in this case, it's not. If it were, I would say ban the person or persons and keep the Talk Backs open. The abuse and harassment occurs nearly at every Talk Back opened at both Glen's Coaxial and Harry's Cool News. As Glen said in his post, he's been contacted by numerous people about harassing mail, and a lot of people are pissed off. Also, as I said, if I received harassing email, Glen must get a heck lot more than I do. If I thought the TalkBacks could be monitored with a minimum of effort, I would say keep them open. Although I don't read every post, I have enjoyed many that I have read (McCracken trying to hum the Crusade theme song last week was a riot - I couldn't stop laughing, and neither could Glen, BTW). I just don't know if monitoring the Talk Backs so that they can be a benefit to those that do not abuse them is possible.
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I hope that posters take this as a shot across the bow. The fact that thestation is closing in part because of the nastiness on the board and you yourself saying in effect enough is enough ought to make people pause and think. Yes we can go to other forums but that doesn't aleviate the problem. I also post to other boards with differing opinions but the conversation doesn't sink to such a low level. The meaness of some of the posts on this board stunnd me.
I would hate for you to close down the talkbacks in lieu of thestation but its your call. Do you want to chance it with another talk back for the 3rd ep.
Is it any wonder that rastb5 unmoderated board created a moderation board for just the reasons you stated. People can have differing opinions but one doesn'thave to stoop to name calling and threats to make a point.
I have a strong feeling that there are other reasons for thestation closing maybe it has something to do with money but I think there are other underlying reasons. It also surprises me that there is not more feedback concerning these developements.
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Well, Glen, I don't blame you for wanting to keep the flames down in the talkbacks. I completely agree with you on that one, and I realize that you're on a limited schedule, and flames are the last thing you want to deal with. The only thing that pops into my head at the moment is to somehow allow some more levelheaded people to help you moderate the forums. Several boards I frequent have tried this with great success. I'm not sure how this could be done, or if it's feasible at all, but it might be a solution. Too bad about Crusade, but it looks like hope is dim. Then again, as Galen points out "Hope is all we have..."
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Any site that accepts ads or is soliciting more advertising can't continue with the increasing level of nastiness as has been growing on this board.. I mean, I guess I just Don't Get It as to why some people have to throw out so many 'unprintables' in addition to death threats and death wishes (I guess they think that makes them 'kewl' - to me, it just shows their ignorance and an increased likelihood of having no idea what Real Life is about). I, for one, am glad that it's become an issue. I *really* like the news I read here and the talkbacks used to be a highlight. But there's NO WAY I can let my 11 year old daughter here - I'm a bit relaxed about what she can read - but the tone over the last couple of months is just unbelievable. I wouldn't mind enduring a little pain for this shakeout to occur. I mean, yuou wouldn't treat a stranger on the street the way some people get treated here, and it's time for that to stop or at least slow down.
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Many people wonder why there isn't a website they can go to for getting any ratings info they want.
It's because Nielsen, the company who does the ratings, is in the business of selling this info, not giving it away for free.
The companies that buy the ratings from Nielsen have contracts which state who and under what circumstances the ratings can be shared with others.
There are some media entities, including websites, that are allowed to publish very general ratings info, such as "top 15" rankings and household ratings and such. But none publish a comprehensive cable ratings list that would include Crusade's ratings. It's not in the top 15 or 20.
TNT, as a Nielsen customer, gets the ratings and would be allowed to share ratings for PR purposes, but that is their choice. So would other cable networks, hence the reason the SciFi Network's website published the ratings for the first episode. -
If something's worth doing, its worth doing right, and it's worth not doing wrong. As anyone who's been around knows, it takes a lot of effort to maintain a discussion board. It's not a fire-and-forget proposition; you need to moderate it to keep it on-topic and civil. I applaud Glen for wanting to create a forum for civil discourse and putting tremendous energy into maintaining it. That's why I read talkbacks here and don't bother with most "fan" newsgroups. I also applaud his decision to shut down a board rather than let it devolve. It lets people like me know that every time I see a talkback board here, it's going to be more civil than 99% of what's out there. And if that means I don't see talkbacks on every subject known to man, I'm OK with that: I'd rather have a few high-quality talkbacks with Glen's deft moderation than a bunch of boards filled with people trying to f*ck sh*t up. :)
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King Grinch... the question of whether or not to shut down (or moderate) the Talk Backs has nothing to do with sponsorship, or the need to keep the boards "clean" in order to please a sponsor. Glen would *never* let a sponsor dictate the content of pages under his direction. The issue at hand regards the descent from civility on the part of the posters, nothing more.
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>>the soundstages used to film Babylon 5 and its spinoff series Crusade are now being used to film the CBS / Sammo Hung television series Martial Law.<< ***** Umm, I haven't seen this confirmed by JMS, but both Crusade and B5 are filmed entirely at Babylonian Productions, and not at any other studio. Unless Babylonian Productions is now renting out their space, this is bogus. Also, as to the ratings, this is a quote from JMS: "We got a 1.4 on The Long Road, which from what we're being told was down because of being up against the first night of the NBA Finals; the East Coast was down as a result, so the numbers dropped even though they were about right for the west coast. And the demographics are great." He also said that the numbers for ep. 2 of Crusade on the Canadian SPACE channel doubled the usual B5 ratings. The first broadcast of Crusade episode 3 will also be against the NBA finals. After that, there should be no other basketball interference.
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That's the problem with the Internet today. Everything has to be kinder and gentler for the kiddies. To HELL with them, I say! The great thing about the Internet has always been the free flow of information across the distances. With all of this "I don't want my kids to see this" crap, the Internet is getting too diluted. We already have to tone down TV and radio. When do we adults get a medium of our own? I'm very sincere in this belief -- It's not just some random flame.
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XRAE wote: " Umm, I haven't seen this confirmed by JMS, but both Crusade and B5 are filmed
entirely at Babylonian Productions, and not at any other studio." GLEN: correct. However, Babylonian Production is a leased facility. While I do not
know of Babylonian's specific status at the moment (I've heard it's all but closed down - if not closed down entirely), I had heard rumors that Warners was contemplating leasing the facilities themselves with the intent of shooting otehr shows there. Presumably, this means the facility would still be in-place should B5 / CRUSADE be resurrected fro further adventures. This is, of course, simply how *I* understand it.**Glen** -
XRAE wrote: "Umm, I haven't seen this confirmed by JMS, but both Crusade and B5 are filmed
entirely at Babylonian Productions, and not at any
other studio. Unless Babylonian Productions is now renting out their space, this is bogus." GLEN says: the facilities housing Babylonian Productions were indeed leased. I do not know Babylonian's current status (I believe they have either shutdown or significantly down-sized their operation), but I have heard indications that Warner bros. might have been interested in leasing the facilities for a while to film some programming there (also leaving the facilities avialable should B5/CRUSADE be resurrected).**Glen** -
KING GRINCH wrote: "While I understand that AICN is looking for sponsors I do not see the need to worry about talkbacks. Let people post what they want and do
not moderate." GLEN says: this defies the entire point of my above message. Clearly you didn't read. GRINCH wrote: "hanging AICN to get sponsors will only drive people away." This has NOTHING to do with sponsors - and is *only* about the issues mentioned above. No where did I say these considerations involved sponsors in any way did. Don't put words in my mouth - it's not polite.**Glen** -
Last year, when TNT pre-empted B5 for their coverage of the NBA, many fans acted as if the concept that NBA is preferred programming was alien to them.
Now, the admission is being made that a good number of Crusade viewers would rather watch the NBA Finals than Crusade, hence the rationale for the reason for the ratings decline from Week 1 to Week 2.
If it's true, I'm not sure how to interpret that. -
KING GRINCH wrote: "I read and understand what you said but has
anyone gotten the idea that two of the REASONS we come to AICN is intelligent talk and the sometimes bellegerent opinions?" GLEN says: Sure, and I agree completely. But many readers have complained about being personally attacked through e-mail, etc. during their participation in the CRUSADE Talkbacks. By keeping the CRUSADE Talkbacks active, I am...in essence...encouraging (and even endorcing) such behavior. I do not want to be in any way responsible for my readership being harassed.**Glen** -
Jun 22, 1999 4:41:33 PM CDT
Can you not ban those who send abusive e-mails to those who post
by orac_uk
If it is simply down to what you mentioned above, can you not ban these "people" who resort to this form of harrasment? Surely it would be better to do this than take away a popular a fascinating Crusade forum??
Or could you not issue a warning to those who may easily be offended by postings that disagree with them?
It's such a backward step to remove a platform of free speech. We may aswell disconect the computers if this worrying trend continues and give up using the net all together if we cannot enjoy a bit of harmless yet healthy debate. -
GLEN, Couldn't you just fix it so that it wasn't possible to email someone from their post? That way, they couldn't be harrassed -- except over the talkback, which is mediated by you.
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Glen here...BOTH very good and fair questions. ANSWERS: I can not ban most of the people who are sending abusive e-mails re: the CRUSADE Talkbacks because they are getting people's e-mails off of the Talkback "from" link, then sending them harassing e-mail from different / anonymous accounts which conceal their true identity.
In other words: I have tried to ban some of the e-mail addresses, etc. which had sent the harassing mails to readers, but they were not addresses currently registered to Talkback users - so my effort was fruitless. IN ANSWER TO THE SECOND QUESTION: I would *love* to be able to configure Talkbacks NOT to display user's e-mail address. Unfortunately, this is built in to the CGI script (or somethng like that which I don't fully understand), and no one at Tech support has time to make such adjustments at the moment. If *I* were in control over the site's design, these Talkbacks would be designed very, very differently - and the kind of issues we now face would not even be a point of concern...**Glen** -
I have been reading the talkbacks for a long time, but only started posting when PJ's LoTR movies came into the discussion. The TB's are nastier now, however the quality of discussion is so much better than at other sites. I think the discussion is better here because the regular posters are well informed on the subjects, and also because this site is moderated, most of us try not want to sound like idiots. I see little value in keeping the TB if it becomes unmoderated. It would quickly devolve into a playground for trolls and flamers like many unmoderated newsgroups. The TBs are the best entertainment discussion site around, and it would be a shame to lose them. But absent extra help moderating, I do not see how to solve your problem for the Crusade TB. I'm sure you recognize that not all the subjects are as bad as the B5/Crusade TBs have become. If you have to end this discussion, do it. But I hope this does not start a trend.
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As orac_uk said, why not just cancel out the e-mail option for registered Talkback users? Oh, you can't give the order to do that? Then talk to Harry or whoever is in charge of everything and politely suggest that the *ahem* "user's e-mail address being shown option" is removed. I haven't been actually posting to the talkbacks very long. Maybe my memory is wrong, but didn't it used to be that the option of having your e-mail listed for the Talkbacks was optional? I wasn't too happy myself when I registered a few weeks ago and saw that I had to give my e-mail address. Why? Well, I too worried about getting harassed. IMHO, it would be a common courtesy to just get whoever controls the inner gears of the TBs and tell them to reconfigure it so that you don't have to leave your e-mail address vulnerable and out in the open for Trolls to pick up and use to harass people with. I remember seeing e-mail addresses in the past on AICN's TBs that sounded, well fake. Like,
yomomma@hotmail.com. I personally didn't recieve/send any angry or obscene e-mails since the Crusade Talkbacks were put up, and yeah, I feel really sorry for those who did. My guess is that the current e-mail "option" was originally put there to discourage people from trolling the boards and recieving retribution. But if that were the case, then that
idea would seem to have backfired. If e-mails weren't automatically listed, then it would probably be a lot easier to maintain the board and pull posts from people who just want to yell and fight. Just a logical suggestion. I was looking forward to seeing thye TBs for all 13 eps. I guess it's not too hard to imagine why the fighting would start up when we had Trekkers trolling the Crusade TBs who mostly dislike B5 in general and who usually had little more to "add" other than, "Don't be mean to TNT. They're just doing their job," or "jms is a big fat meanie-headed arrogant jerk and I hate him. Why did he have to lash out at good ol' TNT? waaaahhhhhhh." Come on, Glen. Please try to fix this, but don't burn the boards! They're fun most of the time and interesting too. Why not move like heck to talk to whoever it is that can fix the e-mail option? Not everyone wants their e-mail shown, and I'm one of 'em. Wether or not you want your e-mail address listed so people can e-mail you after reading a post should be a personal choice when registering to a forum like the Talkbacks. -
So, will there or won't there be a new talkback for the new ep of CRUSADE on tonight? The suspense is killing me...
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I understand and appreciate your concern for your readers. There will always be cowards who hide in the dark like roaches. There's a great shadow comparison here, but I can't think of it. I do, however, have a rule. If I don't recognize the e-mail address, I don't open, just delete. How much would it cost to add a moderator for the next 9 eps? Glen, you are grey, you stand between the candle and the light - it's been a long time, hope that's right! PS - I didn't choose SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED for nothing! Thanks! STILL LOVED LOVED LOVED the Well of Forever!!!
You cxld before the best ep so far! -
... I dont know why I'm so reminded of that scene from what is generally considered the worst B5 episode (Infection), maybe it's because I've just watched Crusade, and I long for better days gone by... But I digress, the problem simply put is that "fans" do not discuss, they rant they rave, they organize themselves into "camps", they petition, and they draw "trolls" like flies. If you *gasp* suggest that Star Wars/Star Trek/X-files/Babylon 5/(insert tired old franchise here) is (a) stale, tired and no longer original, (b) shoddily produced, or (c) a crass and definitely NOT artisticly motivated attempt to cash in on prior success, then you can be GUARANTEED that you will be (a) insulted, (b) flamed, (c) harassed and E-stalked. Which can be mighty frustrating, and after a while after trying to reason with a fanbase you become AS OBSESSED, and therefore become as bad as the fanatik (Trust me, I know of what I speak). And then of course there are the Trolls, which are drawn to passionate debates like horse flies to shit. They, unable to form coherent thoughts of their own, and too degenerate to atleast appreciate that some people might be passionate about something, intentionally and exclusively set out to piss people off. Thankfully spammers have been fairly rare on AICN, as they lay somewhere below trolls (though still a couple of levels above Lawyers, Studio Executives and George Lucas(Couldn't resist)) Despite all this, I would not frequent AICN without the talkbacks. I can get most of this info from TV or magazines, but this is one of the few places where I can discuss my opinions and gauge the general opinion on matters. Star Wars: TPM is a perfect example of how this system works. Without the talkbacks, anyone reading Harry's pages would assume that Star Wars was being received by open arms by EVERYBODY. Even the negative reviews were only posted due to pressure from the talkbacks. And who can forget the talkbacks about the 60 minutes piece on the Colorado shootings? As far as Crusade goes, posting a talkback for EVERY episode is simply ASKING for trouble, all we will get is the same arguments over and over for 3 months, which will just serve to iritate and generally piss people off. My idea? One talkback after "Appearances and Other Deceits"/"Racing the night" which marks the transition point between pre and post-TNT medling, and one after the full run. Sound reasonable?
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Jun 24, 1999 6:03:44 AM CDT
THIS IS NOT A TALKBACK FOR THE LATEST EPISODE OF "CRUSADE" !!! (
by coaxial
Glen here...please note subject line.**Glen&&
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I was really looking forward to the talkbacks for last nights ep only to get here and find that one doesn't exist because a few dumbasses ruined it for all. I think I have had enough with the CRUSADE crap. Last night proved it could be a good show and now even coaxial refuses to mederate the talkbacks that they promised for each ep. If mud flies, oh well, some of us just scroll down. Thanks for removing a valuable forum. Sheesh, what is the point?
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While I do agree that things are much more pleasant when everyone is civil....don't lose your perspective here. Afterall, this is only text on a screen....nothing more. If you read something...and it offends you....then DON'T READ it....nobody forces you to offend yourself. If you read something on this board, and it offends you so much that it disrupts your day....then may I suggest that you are far too sensitive and should take immediate action to block yourself off from the world.....so that you do not encounter any more opposing ideas\opinions. In addition, the Internet is NOT for children.....it is a vast sea of information. No one would throw a child into the ocean unless that child had learned to swim. By the same token, no child should be surfing the 'net unless he has been sufficiently emotionslly\mentally prepared. Afterall....he is bound to bump into a LOT worse things out there than offsenive opinions on a message board. That's my 2 cents, at least.
OH an BTW...I have seen the 1st and 3rd episodes of CRUSADE. I'm sorry....it's not that good. I am thinking TNT was very merciful by cancelling this BLATANT Star Blazers rip-off (they even have a wave-motion gun...sheeesh....way to go JMS) -
Glen here...This isn't just about the relative brutality
of the public forum known as CRUSADE
TALKBACKS. This is about the numbers of people
who found themselves being abused and harassed
through their private e-mails because they genuinely
tried to participate and found themselves being
stalked and harassed by rabid fans. I will not
*enable* such behavior to be launched off of my
forum. There are many posts about this subject, feel
free to check the numerous Talkbacks about the
cancellation of the CRUSADE posts for complete
details.**Glen** -
Zathras have non-abusive, even-handed observations on "Crusade" deleted becuase they are "off-subject". So sorry! (smacking own naughty hand!!) Thanks to Glen for courtesy. Now Zathras forced to go to Cinescape where they merely have 10 times as many scoops and pictures every day. Very sad. *sighs and deletes Favorite shortcut*
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ZATHRAS: so, do your brothers read the site? Are you taking them with you? ;-)**Glen**
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While I agree that you don't want to be a part of or enable such behavior. There is a REALLLLLLLLL simple solution to harassing e-mails. It's called a DELETE button or better yet...an E-MAIL filter. If someone is constantly receiving unwanted e-mails from an "e-stalker" that they KNOW is nothing more than harassment, then by all means DON'T READ THEM. I don't know why people have this desire let themselves get offended.....then COMPLAIN because they are offended. And if an "e-stalker" has turned into a real life stalker....then I offer another solution .....a BASEBALL BAT. It is just my belief that EVERYONE is at fault here.....the psycho "e-stalkers" for taking their little TV shows so seriously that they would harrass other net-citizens. The people who get offended are to blame....for wasting the time and enery it takes to even get offended at the "e-stalkers". However, I will add.....I have never really been a victim of "e-stalking"....so I may be talking out of my ass here (that's always a possibility)
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This is a little off topic, but your little jab at Zath_ras reminded me of something I read from JMS, that one of the characters on Crusade was going to be one of the Zathras brothers. Now THAT would have been "To be must seing, how do they call it? Oh yes the TeeVee." Too bad. Opportunities lost.
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Glen here...DOLFANAR: you are correct, Zathras would likkely have found his way into CRUSADE at some point. I understand there was some initial talk about making him a regular cast member, but then he got relegated to a potentil "guest spot". Now????**Glen**
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Did anyone change your mind? Where are we on this? "What do you want?" "Whom do you serve and whom do you trust?" Just looking for answers and trying to lighten up the mood here.
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I'm dying to know some details about it and your personal ratings compared to the previous two eps.
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I suggest going to (IRONICALLY enough)TNT's official Crusade and Babylon 5 forums. I post there regularly and, believe it or not, a lot of unbiased, in-depth, and insightful discussion goes on there. Another nice thing about it is that when you post, you DON'T have to give an e-mail address. It's totally optional as it should be which apparently never occured to whoever made the *ingenious* set up here. TNT's moderators also yank abusive posts right away. No profane posts there, and you don't have to worry about your e-mail address constantly out in the open ready for trolls. You just delete your address before you post. They even have seperate boards for dicussion of each character :) Go to:
http://chat.tnt.turner.com/
Or you can go to one of the unofficial "save Crusade" sites where there is nifty bulletin board. Check out:
http://homes.acmecity.com/babylon5/lurker/2/crusade.htm
I post to TNT's boards much more than I have here anyway and maybe you should too. If you really enjoy Crusade though, in the end, it'd be better to write WB and the Sci Fi Channel encouraging them to take the show instead of wasting energy trying to keep the very unfulfilled TBs for Crusade going here. Sorry Glen, but you let quite a few people down. This really is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you're really so comitted to covering Crusade, then why let a few troublemakers ruin your mostly helpful coverage you've given us in the past? The majority here are thicker skinned than you may think and really do want the TBs back. -
Though I'm saddened by the idea of the talkbacks being canceled, Glen, I can understand your disgust. I love AICN and have been impressed by the the passion, the insight and the intelligence of many of fans who take time to post at this site.
Sadly, that group of folks seems to be in the minority - so many of the posters here come off as brain-damaged teenagers who have no concept of civility, spelling, grammar and, apparently, couldn't put together a coherent thought even if their lives depended on it. As an older fan (much older, to be honest with you), I find picking through a paragraph where the word F*** is used as a modifier eight times in a single sentence to be a wearisome task.
I'm not shocked or repulsed by the use of this kind of language, I'm simply bored. I wish there was some viable way that the angry, hormonal idiots who buzz around these sites could be filtered out while the intelligent and civil could be free to post their well thought out opinions (even if I might disagree with what they're saying). In any case, great job, Glen - you're much appreciated!!
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I must say this is disappointing. It is truly a shame that the power and freedom of the internet gives bullies the ability to be the aggressive cowards that they are with no consequences to themselves. I suspect that if they had to face the people they harass electronically they would shit in their pants and run away. (Or at the very least stop giggling to themselves and thinking that they were all mighty.) > Glen would it be possible to post on an ftp site the source code for the cgi script that generates the talk back page? I suspect that somebody outside of your support staff could find the single line of code that prints the email address and delete it for you. (ala Linux). As long as it was not written in Basic I might even be able to find it. (well Lisp or APL might be a challenge as well ;) By just posting the code that generates the page of responses I think you can avoid any issues with somebody copying the style of your entire site. It that is not possible I would ask that you push your people a little harder. If all you want to do is remove the email link from the response line (I
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I wouldn't mind seeing the Talk Back format go. Although there are some reasonable "discussions" that occur here (I'm talking about ALL the Talk Backs), there seem to be too many individuals who criticize unread and some times even unwritten scripts, unseen acting, unseen SFX, and a host of other things that cannot logically be discussed about a film or TV show that hasn't even been made yet. I'm referring in particualr to some of the heated debates regarding the Lord of the Rings movie. I wish that I could deliver a critique of a film that hasn't even begun shooting yet. I'd be wealthy. Sure, we're all entitled to our opinion. But didn't any one ever teach these folks that even opinions should be based on facts and not on hearsay, rumors, untruths, and hoaxes. Educated opinions are not a problem. The uneducated opinions are a bore for the most part, where one can only shake his head in disbelief. Others are downright irritating by virtue of the appearance that their "word" is gospel, and any who dares to disagree with them (even in the most pleasant and benign way), is an idiot not to be tolerated. But do these cretans use any logical argument to bolster their claims? No. Instead they resort to calling names or maligning the mothers of those who disagree with them. This post has been written before by others on other boards. I'm just another person tired of seeing the greatest revolution in human communication being wasted by hate filled cry babies. I suppose that those who own and monitor this board could do away with this style of BB and instead post only those notes that actually have something to say, like "Letters To The Editor" in newspapers or magazines. And I am just waiting to receive an obscene message in my email. Go ahead, make my day!
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