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Warner Brothers Almost Gets It - In Regards To Their Superheroes

Hey folks, Harry here... Today - over at The Wall Street Journal - Jeff Robinov is talking about the "master plan" for DC's Heroes as they apply to Warner's film slate. It seems that the big series of round table meetings that they had - back after IRON MAN came out - have caused trimming of the bush - along with planting of new seeds in their development slate. Then DARK KNIGHT came out - and kinda changed everything in their executive brains. Jeff Robinov has decided to follow the MARVEL model in regards to their characters. Introducing Stand Alone Character films "For every character they have the rights to" - a statement that I feel is probably a gross exaggeration. But I bet it's every character that Robinov is familiar with, ie. that DC put in front of him. Then use those Stand Alone hopeful Franchises to build toward a multi-character film - like a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie. Ok - I'm down with that. Sounds good. Then you get toward the end of the article and Jeff apparently wants "the next pack of superhero movies to be bathed in the same brooding tone as 'The Dark Knight.'" Ok - this is where it becomes readily evident that Jeff Robinov doesn't get it. BROODING is what BATMAN does. DARK TONES is what makes BATMAN and GOTHAM the places they are. You can apply some of that to Green Arrow - but making a dark brooding SUPERMAN - bathing Metropolis in a darkness isn't necessarily what we want. Robinov feels that they need to explore the evil side to characters - as the key to unlocking these other characters. The key isn't to make all the heroes realistic vigilantes - that hate themselves. The key is to take their villains serious. If you want to make a SUPERMAN movie to blow peoples' minds - do a Darkseid story. If you want to blow our minds with a GREEN LANTERN movie - by all means - go crazy Science Fiction with it. BUT these other franchises and characters are OTHER CHARACTERS. They are not BATMAN clones. The reason IRON MAN did so well for MARVEL - although in some monkey's brain he was a 'B' Character - was because they realized the character as he was meant to be realized. His character is a womanizer, a lush and a genius. SPIDER-MAN worked because Peter Parker is a sweet kid that messed up and got his Uncle killed and is trying to spend his life making up for that. But when they tried to make his character DARK & BROODING in the last film - fans rejected it. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT SPIDER-MAN. The key to all of these heroes are their villains. Because the measure of a hero is the villain that they face. Lex Luthor isn't a bumbling Land Grabber like Richard Donner gave us and that Bryan Singer gave us - Lex Luthor is the evil TONY STARK - actually - he's closer to Jeff Bridges's Stane. Lex would have been the world's greatest man had SUPERMAN never existed. His mind was an evolutionary step forward. His company solving the world's woes... for a profit. Then this orphan from space comes and puts him in a shadow. Put's him in a corner - and nobody puts baby in a corner. And it caused something to snap - it's the tragedy of SUPERMAN - his existence created Lex's villainry. BUT more importantly - you have amazing villains like Braniac or most importantly - DARKSEID! Painting SUPERMAN with dark tones... does anyone remember SUPERMAN III? Of course that was done tongue in cheek, but I am just not one to want a brooding sad sack SUPERMAN moaning constantly about being ALONE. That's THE MARTIAN MANHUNTER - not SUPERMAN. Ideally - what I'd like to see is to have each character realized as well as BATMAN has been. Just develop the properties with RESPECT and GRANDEUR. That's all I ask. What about you Talkbackers - how would you like to see the DC heroes handled. Take these and tell us what you'd like to see from WONDER WOMAN, SUPERMAN, GREEN LANTERN, GREEN ARROW, MARTIAN MANHUNTER, THE FLASH - and building to a JLA flick?

Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:51 p.m. CST


    by Banzai Rootskibango

    Flip yeah!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:53 p.m. CST

    You're right about emo Spidey, Harry...

    by memento108

    Good article. What is the complete list of characters they have the rights to, anyway?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern

    by SimpleSandwiches

    What sound would his ring make every time he make a construct?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Warners may finally be THINKING...

    by Banzai Rootskibango

    Dark Knight rocks the shit, and now their trying to get back on the ball with everything DC. <P> GOOD! Start over with Superman, give it to a great team, make it work! <P> Marvel will ALWAYS kick DC's ass in the movie wars. They have too many great properties. Even the lesser known ones (to the normies that is) like Iron Man become major hits! <P> All DC really has is Batman. As long as they don't fuck up Batman like they did a few years ago (Schumacker) then everything will be cool beans.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Uggg no dark Superman

    by eric haislar

    reboot fine just get some one good and not the dude from wanted.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:57 p.m. CST

    We're to blame to an extent, Harry

    by terry1978

    We gripe if any comic flick, as fun and fantasy filled as its source material is, goes that same route and all the execs see and read on message boards is how such and such comic movie wasn't "dark enough, wasn't bad ass enough, etc." Then TDK comes out and basically embraces that theory, of course they'll think all their movies need to follow suit. You do The Flash, it can have dark tones, but it has to be equally fun and colorful to an extent.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:57 p.m. CST

    As long as they dont go TOO campy, I dont mind realism.

    by Mike_D

    if thats what he means.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:58 p.m. CST

    I agree....

    by jarodvhale

    the fact that they all want to copy the same thing because it made money shows shortsideness... obviously the filmmakers have a great amount of respect and our brilliant at getting into the themes is what did it...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Nolan's realistic Superman would be a blast.

    by Stalin vs Predator

    Can't see through anything. Can't fly. Can write an article and meat the deadline.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Geoff John's has a Dark Tone...

    by The Superior

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3 p.m. CST

    I wish i ran the WB

    by eric haislar

    These things would be done right.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3 p.m. CST


    by uberman

    Pull it together by using the original Wrightson comics as the template. Those are grade A+ DC classics-not the cheesefest that the movie portrayed.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Respect the source material

    by FilmZ0mbie

    as a studio and find people who are eager to bring the demigods to life and make incredible films worthy of the DC logo. Don't give a property to a director that's just going to use it as a mouth piece completely for their own agendas. That's right Singer, no more Superman for you.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    I don't really dig female superheroes...

    by Banzai Rootskibango

    ...on their own. I wouldn't pay to see a Wonder Woman movie. I think they work well when placed into a bigger picture like Storm in the X-Men or Wonder Woman within the JL... <P> It's like that Elektra movie that came out. She was alright in that so-so Daredevil flick but I still haven't seen the Elektra spin-off. Why? Because I don't give a shit.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    They already did a 'brooding' Superman flik

    by playahatersball

    "Superman Returns" was dreary and distrurbing in all the wrong ways. If they really do reboot that particular franchise, they should do something halfway between "Superman for all Seasons" and Animated series. Half the tone of Donner's is dead on (which Singer seemed unable to recreate at all, to him grandeur=plodding), just put Clancy Brown in as Luthor and make his chaufer his ONLY SIDEKICK.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST


    by Unlabled

    MOVIE sounds ill.. DO IT!!1

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    How can someone that stupid get that job?

    by IndustryKiller!

    i mean that is just such a fucking idiotic thing to say that I wonder how Robinov has gotten this far in his life without forgetting how to breathe. So he thinks its the fact that Dark Knight was fucking DARK that brought in those big numbers? Yeah nevermind the fucking excellent story, the now classic turn of Heath Ledger as The joker, and the brilliant characterization. Yeah none of that has shit to do with the films success. What a jackass. There isnt a single other DC property, whether it be Superman or Green Lantern, for which a dark tone works.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST


    by Unlabled

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    SUPERMAN going DARK!!!? Are they F#$Ken INSANE!????

    by tbdeinc

    see subject line...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    It really is mind-boggling, though...

    by Stalin vs Predator

    ...that those cretins really do not seem to realize that Ledger's death was the ONLY reason why "The Dark Knight" made as much as it did and was well-reviewed. Not the "darkness", not the "realism" - Ledger's painkiller overdose. That's it. <p> <p> That deluded fanatics won't accept this simple truth is understandable, but a studio head? It's as if all studio executives really were their own living caricatures.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Action Comics

    by The Superior

    John's been able to give superman a dark tone by making his villains darker but keeping the core still the same. Look at his current Brainiac storyline. In the last comic Supes pulled a tube out of his mouth and was coughing off blood.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Make a Superman movie set in the 30's

    by uberman

    like the original comics. Like the Fleicher cartoons.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST


    by mr.brownstone

    Robinov probably looks at the fact that SM3 made significantly more money than 1 and 2. So from that perspective the dark approach paid off I guess. That said I agree whole heartedly with everything you wrote in this article Harry. Not that surprising though that an exec would approach this from such a trendy and short sighted perspective, that can only lead to over saturation and diminishing returns.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Why are so many important people such idiots?

    by O_Goncho


  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    And fuck Donner's Superman.

    by FilmZ0mbie

    It was a sharp looking movie, but Superman Returns did everything that was wrong with the original Superman films. Give Superman to somebody who isn't going to put him in a black and silver suit with no cape either. Philistines!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Superman is the Light to Batmans Dark.

    by eric haislar

    Hollywood amazes me at its own stupidity.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Oh, and on a final note...

    by Stalin vs Predator

    This is precisely what Jon Peters wanted to do (minus any giant spiders, that is). That turned out well, didn't it?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Be true to your school...

    by jgsugden

    These characters worked in comic books for a reason. Change only what needs to be changed to make them work on screen - which shouldn't be much. If you as me, they changed Batman too much into a tech reliant crusader. The Detective has yet to appear on screen. If DC/Warner is smart, they'll get someone that has had success in comics and the screen - someone that loves these characters - A Straczynski or a Whedon (they may work for Marvel, but both love DC characters as well) - to plot out and outline the next 30 to 50 DC/Warner movies for the next decade.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Sounds like another clueless executive

    by fiester

    And didn't Lex Luthor hate Superman because Superman inadvertantly caused him to go bald? That's what I thought it was.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:08 p.m. CST

    like people said above

    by mr.brownstone

    respecting the source material is the key to success and a long afterlife for a comic movie. aping the last success is just very shortsighted. they have the potential here to build franchises more longevity and staying power than ever before.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:08 p.m. CST


    by eric haislar

    Luthor does not really hate superman he kinda likes him because he is the only one on the planet that he considers his equal. the only one that really challenges him.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST


    by A_Porpoise

    Ideally, I would like to see standalone films that could hint at a team movie, but without actually making Superman or Batman part of the team. Keep the A list characters separate - part of the world, but not part of the team. I just can't see Nolan's Batman or even a well-done Superman working as part of a Justice League project. So....Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman as standalone projects each highlighting the best attributes of the characters - Batman as the brooding Dark Knight, Superman as the beacon of hope (truth, justice, etc - with a villain worthy of his powers such as Brainiac, Metallo or Mxyzptlk), and Wonder Woman at her mythological best (I vote for the story involving Athena and Ares taking over Olympus, or maybe something with Doctor Psycho). The next tier of characters - Green Arrow, Green Lantern, etc, could be used to bring together a Justice League. Green Arrow's "supermax" feature sounds like fun, and a space opera-esque Green Lantern would be great. Aquaman deserves a chance too, if writers can manage to take him seriously enough.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST

    I am a giant Superman fan, but...

    by depalma25

    ...I think it's about time we see a different side of Superman. Singer's film was basically a love song to Donner and the nostalga alone kept me entertained, but I believe I am indeed ready for a darker more realistic Superman. I'm even all for scrapping the William's score. It was recycled in Quest for Peace and look how that turned out. Ottman's original work on Returns was the best part. William's score has been used to death and is no longer rousing, just labored. Hey, I never thought Batman would ever get a better score than Elfman's 89 triumph, but Zimmer and Howard did a pretty damn good job.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:10 p.m. CST


    by mr.brownstone

    that really made me laugh.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Warner's finally got Batman right,

    by greenstyle92

    And it only took them, what, 6 tries? Even Begins pales because it had no where near as good villains. Ra's is good in theory, but Begins just gave us EVIL QUI GON JIN, with no clear reason why he did what he did. But you are fairly right about villains. It' not that Lex is overused, it's that he hasn't been used right yet. I know this is a tired argument that I'm cribbing from Batman, but hey, why not get Clancy Brown to do Luthor in a live action movie? That would be sweet! I always thought of Luthor as actually like an evil Bruce Wayne, but your Evil Tony Stark might be better. There's this all powerful invading alien and a brilliant scientist who can invent things that can challenge the invader. Lex should be the good guy! that's the irony. Lex can't get over this. But Superman is refusing to be the bad guy, so what are you gonna do?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Dark Superman could work...

    by tlsivart

    If they were to approach Superman the way the Justice League cartoons did in the second to last season it would work. Superman being manipulated by Lex into the bad guy, but he'd have to save the world and be redeemed in the end... none of this "I have to be the bad guy" stuff like Batman did.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:11 p.m. CST

    This article marks a fucking sad time for movies

    by mefrog

    The article as a whole essentially talks about WB gearing more towards big budget blockbusters as opposed to independent films. They shut down Warners Independent and Picturehouse, which has released some great movies, in order to focus on... blockbusters. I like my blockbusters only at a certain time of year... summer and (occasionally) winter.<br> <br> So the indepdent filmmaker gets screwed once again. Yes, I'm absolutley sick of all those small budget films billed as "indies" like Juno and Little Miss Sunshine but I'd rather not be consistently overwhelmed by THE NEXT BIG MOVIE EVENT every other week.<br> <br> In regards to the superhero movies... well, I'm totally against a Dark Knight sequel but it will happen so just bring back the team. I'm down for a Superman reboot in a few years (like... five though it'll probably be sooner) but I'm utterly sick of Lex Luthor being the villian. Bring in a supervillian!<br> <br> I hope other studios don't follow suit, though I can't say I'm optimistic about it. Whatever.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Does anyone esle want to see a CGI JLA Film?

    by eric haislar

    Make it look just like a Alex Ross painting? Could be cool if they don't have that uncanny valley look.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    "Getting comics right"

    by The Wolf at the Door

    The problem as I see it is that it's wrong-headed to view comic book films as a genre onto themselves. I'd say the reason Dark Knight is doing so well is because it's a good MOVIE that respects the characters on their own and not within the construct of "Teh Comic Book Film." <p> All this talk of doing the whole DC-universe in the vein of Dark Knight is fine, if that by they mean "Respect the characters and situate them in a world in which their existence makes sense." (And no, that doesn't mean stripping all super-powered characters of their powers ... it means, okay, if Superman can fly ... imagine how society would react, what it would mean to the world.") But what sense does it make to say, "Dark Knight was a big blockbuster, so let's do ALL comic book films the same way ... get me Bill Keane of Family Circus on the phone!" <p> When a successful book adaptation of, say, "Moby Dick" is done ... what sense does it make to use that as a model for adapting the Harry Potter series?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Stalin vs Predator...

    by depalma25

    Yeah, and Canadian Bacon really benefited from John Candy's death. Ledger's performance put butts in the seats.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Harry gets it, WB doesn't

    by waggy

    It's funny how closely these statements mirror the path the comic industry followed after Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen hit the stands. Someone at WB's sister company would do well to educate Mr Robinov on the effect grim and gritty superheroes had on the comics industry during the 1990's. In movies, just like comics, a project is successful when it is well made, not because it's dark. It's encouraging that they plan to mine their larger stable of characters the way Marvel Studios has, but first let's make sure the people involved with the projects understand what makes those characters cool. Warner has access to the minds of people who have built entire careers out of understanding these characters. Perhaps it would be a good idea to use that resource, (ya know, like Marvel Studios did on those movies WB wants to emulate).

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Mysterious Yobo

    by eric haislar

    HAHAHA read my mind.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST


    by mr.brownstone

    your argument hold absolutely no water from Rubinov's perspective considering he's sitting atop the second highest grossing film in history. Not that I wouldn't want to see Batman the detective, but do you really think he's questioning his own judgement when it comes to Batman right now?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Dark Superman flick? Knowing WB, it'll be Doomsday

    by KongMonkey

    Lets make a depressing superman dies flick and rake in the dough. Typical. Someone else mentioned swamp thing. With the right tone and fx, that would kick ass.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:15 p.m. CST


    by MR. MURDOCH

    This is what it sounds like...before Warners comes in and chooses to "edit out" all the "dark" stuff in three years when the movie is made, because we'll be in a different political and social climate...likely with a new, optimistic administration and world-view... Seriously folks, Singer's Superman should have never been made in that approach. What they needed was a full-on reboot, as it seems they are finally realizing now ($200 mil too late). That franchise should have been rebooted just as Batman's was... The attachment to Donner's "vision" is way overboard -- yeah, the guy made a good movie, and a semi-decent sequel (before he got pulled off), but do we really need to follow that up 30 YEARS LATER??!! PLEASE, WB, GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME! I would think in terms of "dark", for Superman, this would mean more badass, more intense, more of an attitude that Superman can show when he's angry...not necessarily, as I've already seen the fanboys freak out in three hours, "emo." As far as Robinov's statements, this also makes it sound as if they might approve of SUPERMAX as a potential franchise-starter as well... Supermax 2010, Nolan/Batman 3, Superman Rebooted, 2011, that's your plan WB -- GET TO IT!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:15 p.m. CST

    They should create a digital Heath Ledger...

    by Banzai Rootskibango

    ...and have the Joker in the next Batman movie. Like Jar Jar Binks only, dangerous.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

    The Wolf at the Door

    by eric haislar

    I like your idea of superman. That would be wonderful. Superman should Be Hope for mankind and what we can all do to achieve that with out powers.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Where is my dark and brooding Scooby Doo re-boot?

    by DerLanghaarige

    Y'know, the one where we find out that Shaggy's eating habits come from a childhood trauma, Fred is doing drugs because he can't take the pressure of being the leader of Mystery Inc, the kids meet psychopaths and serial killers who dress up as monsters just because they like to play mindgames and Scooby Doo...Scooby Doo isn't there, because an animal might make it look like a kids show.<br>

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:17 p.m. CST

    somebody simply give them

    by j2talk

    the seminal books on each hero....I.E. Batman:Year One, The Killing Joke...GreenArrow: The LongBow Hunters, Green Lantern :Rebirth...ETC...the stories are there,look at the award winning stories lines from the monthly books..... just film them it really that difficult to understand? Hand the director a comic book,"There, that's your story bord,Now film it!!!"

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Superman was never dark

    by Sithdan

    Unlike Batman, who is a dark, brooding vigilante, Superman is a light-hearted, spirited affair. It would defeat the character's purpose to make darker than it really supposed to be, in my opinion (unless you go with the Death of Superman arc, which could work). But you can't alter Superman's personality. He's the world's biggest boyscout, not Charles Bronson in Death Wish.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:18 p.m. CST


    by MCVamp

    It's not that hard. It's not that hard. It's not that hard. IT'S NOT. THAT. HARD. Why is WB doing this so stupidly? Any three talkbackers above me could scribble out a better business plan on the back of a napkin. They will never match Dark Knight. Ever. Batman vs. Joker is the nuclear bomb of movie showdowns, it's the biggest matchup anyone can do--even Marvel has nothing that can top it. It's all downhill from here.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern is easy if you have a budget

    by ChorleyFM

    Act 1, the New Frontier origin. Act 2, Sinestro comes and they go to Oa where he trains and learns, Act 3 Manhunters Attack Oa when battle ending Hal gets called to Earth where Manhunters are looking for something buried with Abin Sur, then Sinestro comes to help out. Sequel Hal vs. Sinestro and talk of the prophecy in the background.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:19 p.m. CST

    You need to follow the Justice League cartoon's model

    by Kevin Holsinger

    Each character has to be distinct, but somewhat diluted if it's to fit in with the other characters. Batman can be grim, but if you did him like in Grant Morrison's "Arkham Asylum", he'd be too grim to put in the same world as Superman.<BR><BR>Superman can be more idealized, but no so much that he couldn't exist in the same world as Arkham Asylum's lunatics.<BR><BR>As for Nolan's Batman, I like it, but I think it attempts too much to be realistic to fit in with, for example, Wonder Woman (made out of clay).<BR><BR>As I said, I think you need to dilute them a bit.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:20 p.m. CST

    But it's good that I'm not the only one anymore...

    by DerLanghaarige

    ...who is sick and tired of "dark and realistic, just for the sake of it".

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:21 p.m. CST

    The Next Superman Film should be by..

    by BartholomewNeff

    Brad Bird. He's perfect to be the director and writer. Look at Iron Giant with its subtle references to Superman. Look at The Incredibles. He'd be perfect to make a great Superman film.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:21 p.m. CST


    by eric haislar

    You can't do that man. It just won't work Take the ideas from those books and do a original story. I have read all those why do i want to see it on the screen. I liked sin city as much as the next guy. But some of it was really silly man.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST


    by eric haislar

    True that!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:24 p.m. CST

    i pray for the death of superhero movies, for awhile

    by BMacSmith

    i'm starting to hate Marvel's ultimate plan. it either means all the movies have to be the same tonally, or worse shoehorn all these very different stories into a crappy Avengers movie. the more i think about it, the more i hate it. i dont want an Avengers or Justice League movie. i dont want movie further reduced to serials.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Looks like Dark Knight Really did destroy The Comic Book Movie

    by Phategod2

    I saw this coming, Nolan Basically redefined the Genre, and now the Hollywood parasites are going to copy TDK to the T. Get ready to see main side characters unexplicably Die, and villians who are insane for no damn reason. expect about half a dozen copy cat TDK by 2010.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:25 p.m. CST

    They won't do 'Death of Superman'

    by MR. MURDOCH

    Especially not as a "New Franchise" starter. Here's two more reasons they won't do it: 1. They already explored SINO basically "dying" in the last movie. 2. Smallville is introducing an adaptation of Doomsday this year, and I'm SURE that they had to get approval for that one -- if WB/DC was seriously considering using Doomsday whatsoever in the film franchise, they wouldn't have let the 'Ville touch it with a 100-foot green screen... Now, who started up the Tom Welling for Supes talk? Ooops...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:26 p.m. CST

    You Missed The Story Harry!! Superman Is Getting a Reboot

    by A-COD

    Robinov stated that Superman is getting a reboot. " "It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned." "Had 'Superman' worked in 2006, we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009," he adds. "But now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:26 p.m. CST


    by waggy

    An indie film bankrolled by the biggest media empire in the world isn't really an indie film, is it? But even ignoring that whole argument, you'll never see the studio-backed "indies" disappear because they all want their statues in February and the Academy has made it abundantly clear in recent years that they are not interested in honoring films embraced by the masses.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Brandon Routh Should Stay!

    by Judge Briggs

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    These Movies Need To Be Produced By DC Studios!!!!

    by Media Messiah

    I have said it for years, Warner needs to assemble a council of Fanboys/Fangirls, to ask them what they really want and to review projects and to give their imput on scripts, casting choices and directing choices...but no one was listening.<BR><BR>Joss Whedon should be given back Wonder Woman and Joel Silver should be stripped of the project. Chris Nolan should be brought in to replace Silver as producer or someone lke Jerry Bruckhiemer to make things run smoothly.<BR><BR>The Flash should also go into production simultaneously with Wonder Woman, and the budgets should be handsome, but not over that for the sequels, if they are earned. Budgets within the 85 to 100 million dollar range, per picture, are more than enough. And with Fox threatening the Watchman project, DC and Warner should counter with a super hero team movie that can threaten the X-Men franchise. I would start with Invisible. That is a great comic, with great franchise potential and could rival Columbia's Spiderman. I would suggest that they also bring in Paul Dini to do an Invincible cartoon, to introduce the character to children and parents ahead of the movie. As well, I would do a Wonder Woman and a Flash cartoon, to re-introduce the characters and concepts as lead stand alone heroes, and to establish their villain galleries, to, and for, the masses before releasing the movies.<BR><BR>I could say more, but unless Warner gets serious and creates a council of Fanboys/Fangirls, to help steer these projects and point them to the better characters, storylines, and comics, the point is mute.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Refreshing Superman without a reboot:

    by MCVamp

    First off, Batman and Superman share a world. The two Nolan Batmans have taken place while Superman was gone for 5 years. Secondly, put Lex in the background with a government pardon (weapons deal and an "Anti-Superman military backup plan) and have him mastermind the following: Zod (alive, powerless and in prison) is re-powered by Lex's synthetic recreation of Kryptonian crystals and becomes Doomsday. Brainiac is attracted to Earth and activated by Superman's visit to the old Krypton system (the five year absence.) An attempt by Lex & military to clone a weaponized Superman becomes Bizarro. Superman & Lois's son gets banished to the Phantom Zone in an accident (coda: he is released in the 30th Century by the Legion as a teenaged Superboy.) Clark Kent meets Bruce Wayne--NOT Superman meets Batman. Finally, an emergency in Greece calls him away and leads into the first JUSTICE LEAGUE movie...which serves as the introduction to Wonder Woman, who CAN NOT hold her own movie--but she can lead the Justice League when Superman and Batman aren't around. Then mix in other heroes. Franchise and done. One napkin.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    VERY well said, Harry

    by ryman7

    a darkseid supes epic would be AWESOME. pay attenion you execs! You can't just copy and paste a film's success. For God's sake, just listen to the fans (like Nolan) and you'll make GREAT movies and ALOT OF MONEY TOO

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST

    All the way around stupid news ...

    by doubledown44

    If Brandon Routh is not involved in the next Superman movie, I will not see it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Acqually, Lex was created when Superboy made him bald

    by Squashua

    but I digress.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Totally agree Harry

    by br1947

    Think you nailed it. If there is ever to be a 'dark' Superman film, it needs to be Darkseid. But I don't know if you can jump from the previous films to that without bridging the 'class' of villians. Do it like Iron Man, start out with a lesser villian, don't jump straight to the Mandarin. Maybe Brainiac for the next one, then move on to Darkseid.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST

    What take do we want on each character?

    by Evil Sean

    Superman: I'd love to see the tone and grand scope of Loeb/Sale "Superman for All Seasons." What Donner got right was the epic scope (Krypton/Smallville), casting of Reeve and John Williams' score for the ages. I'd use the same theme music and scope. You need to cast an actor in his early 30's - he'll still be in shape as you sequelize for up to one decade. I don't like the whole Mickey Mouse club approach to casting. Lois needs to be at least 27 or 28. She needs to be capable and mischevious, not a little girl playing dress up whose sole purpose is to nag the whole time (I'm talking to you, Simger & Bosworth). Lex needs to be a ruthless, type A billionaire who is secretly a murderer and maniac without conscience. In addition to Luthor, Supes needs to take on a formidable foe: Zod, Braniac or Darkseid come to mind. You need an action director who also loves the characters: I don't know who that is, but someone like Jim Cameron might be game. Robert Zemekis? I know the closest he came to action was Back to the Future. Flash: a hybrid of the classic Barry Allen origin and job mixed with the 90's Mark Waid Wally West run's sensibilty. Lighter in tone but not campy: think the tone of the current Marvel films. Green Lantern: Is it set on earth or is it an intergalactic "fish-out-of-water" story. If it's set on Earth, does Hal save the world from an alien threat? Green Arrow: I kind of dig the Supermax premise or you could mine the seminal 70's material. This could go darker - I'd like to see if David Fincher has a take. Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter: Never read their books with much regularity. Other properties I'd love to see: A Superman movie set in the late 30's or early 40's. I'd love to see Supes in Peter Jackson's King Kong NYC subbing for Metropolis or see what Kerry Conran (Sky Captain) might do. Ditto for a JSA movie set during WWII (this could also be a terrific DCU animated feature). A Sandman Mystery Theatre (Wesley Dodds) pic set in the 30's inspired by Matt Wagner's excellent Vertigo series directed by Brian De Palma or Curtis Hanson. Guy Pierce? Elseworlds animated direct to DVD: Gotham by Gaslight would be amazing. A Justice League movie inspired directly by the cheeky, B-List 80's run. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see 100 Bullets as a serial on HBO or Showtime. Let a number of driectors do individual eps like the old Amazing Stories. I'd love to see guys like Zak Snyder, Frank Miller, Robert Rodriguez, Peter Berg, QT, etc moonlight for one ep each. Or, just hand it to the guys who brought us The Wire and Generation Kill.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST

    DC Sucks

    by SpawnofAchilles

    except for the batman, MARVEL FOREVER...Superman is the lamest of the lame

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST


    by Vic_Arpeggio

    is so incredibly stupid that it boggles the mind. He's of the Toby Emmerich "let's copy everything until it ultimately self-destructs" school. There's no way Warners isn't going to screw this up badly (think how Lionsgate has consistently bungled THE PUNISHER). No way. Robinov and Jeff Bewkes are to moviemaking what cancer is to living.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Here's my "back of the napkin" buisness plan.

    by greenstyle92

    1. arrest Nolan and Bale under the "patriot act," send to guantanomo, then get them on work-release programs where they have to film Batman movies for the rest of their lives or be executed. next Batman movie will have to explain "electronic ankle bracelets" on the bat suit though. wait, just put nipples on the suit again and then nobody notice ankle bracelets. 2. Reboot Superman. Take donnor's film and give new computer special effects a la "Star wars special edition." refilm Luthor sequences with Clancy Brown. insert digital brainiac. bill as all new Superman film. nobody would notice. 3. Green arrow film. take Batman Forever and digitally color correct Batman's suit to look Green. Nobody will notice. 4. Wonderwoman: TITTIES TITTIES! BIG TITTIES! LOT'S O TITTIES! TITTIES TITTIES TITTIES! (I was quite drunk by this point, but I do love me some titties. And hey, there's going to be an "unrated" version of that Wonderwoman cartoon movie next year, so you never know...)

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Superman: Birthright

    by jobytack

    That series, I think, got Supes's origins right. The S is a Kryptonian symbol seen in war images, etc. The choices he makes and paths he chooses are logical based on the story. Very interesting, except the Lex storyline is kind of played. But if a reboot has to be done, this is a good source of inspiration for a more "realistic" approach.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:32 p.m. CST

    DC Will Never Get It Together Onscreen

    by The Funketeer

    Until they have a deal like Marvel does where they produce their own movies, they will always have WB second guessing them and lurking in the wings to push changes on the creative teams. Of course, it doesn't help that even DC doesn't seem to get some of it's own characters right now. To say that Dark Knight made them stop thinking about change and start thinking that they were doing things right pretty much sums up why WB doesn't get it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:32 p.m. CST

    I will say it first! NO WELLING as Supes

    by eric haislar

    Please! yes he is good on smallville, but that show has become so horrible i do not want a Film franchise to have anything to do with it. Though I still think Supes Should Be a unknown and about 40.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    they'd have to reboot batman

    by juice willis

    i love Nolan's take, but the DC universe batman would have to be an order of magnitude more bad-ass than Nolan's "realistic" turn. he'd have to convincingly hang with the heavies nahmean?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    they'd have to reboot batman

    by juice willis

    i love Nolan's take, but the DC universe batman would have to be an order of magnitude more bad-ass than Nolan's "realistic" turn. he'd have to convincingly hang with the heavies nahmean?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Man, did I ever call this

    by epitone

    There are, of course, a million reasons why The Dark Knight is such a huge financial success. Chief among them, I believe, is that it was a really good movie. But of course, making more good movies is impossible. So they decide that the reason it was successful is because it was dark and brooding, and greenlight a million more clones of it. Tune in next week, when most of those clones fail at the box office and Robinov decides every superhero movie needs to be light and fluffy from now on, full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:35 p.m. CST

    damn twitchy finger

    by juice willis

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Fan rejected Spider-man 3 alright...

    by Thrillho77

    to the tune of over 300 millions dollars. <p> Sure, maybe NOW they reject it - after they paid to see it. But here's the secret with that - don't show any of the shitty stuff you snuck into the movie in the trailers. <p> Other than that, I think Harry is absolutely correct.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:35 p.m. CST

    If Brad Bird did a Superman...

    by greenstyle92

    It would be all about how Superman is a great and wonderful guy who never did anything wrong always protected us, but us little people with inferior morality were jealous of his success and did everything in our power to hand cuff and tame him and take credit for his stuff. The pivotal moment of the film is when they force superman to quit but realize they are weak and talentless and beg Superman to come back.<br> <br> After "Incredibles" and "Ratatouille," I think Brad Bird should just film "Atlas Shrugged" and be done with it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:35 p.m. CST

    I just can't see Nolan's Batman existing with other superheroes

    by heavenlykid

    Nolan worked so hard to make Batman a believable, realistic character, to suddenly toss in an Alien from Krypton, or Plastic Man, I just don't see it. The Dark Knight seems to be in our world, every character they've added, even Joker, they've tried to put in a real world setting. A guy who can fly wouldn't fit. I'm sorry but that's just how I feel.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Fuck Justice League and all that shit

    by Gungan Slayer

    I fucking hate the concept of Justice League and The Avengers. fucking stupid. I don't give a shit of having a bunch of superheros working together to fight for justice or whatever it is. Fucking stupid. I've always hated the idea. Same with Batman vs Superman. Movie studios love this sort of shit cause they can crank some movie out and just sell tons of shitty toys and what not. As for Superman, fuck you Warner Bros. Bunch of dumbasses. You and you alone are the one to blame for this problem. You guys spent over ten years developing shitty ideas for a Superman reboot (not to mention some $40 million). you get Singer, he gives us a good Superman movie, but what's wrong...not good enough for you? Budget too high (your fault)? Character wasn't "in the position you wanted him to be in" What the fuck? WB, you had control over the project, you should done whatever you wanted then. Now we can endure an entire cast, a new Superman, etc. LOL....time to spend millions more to reboot a franchise that you already rebooted not even five years ago.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Hopefully it will give Downey enough time to graduate

    by SpencerTrilby

    so he can understand comic plots outside of "hero cracks lame jokes. Faces bigger foe. Finds his weak point. Snappy comeback. End credits".^^ <p> Albeit I agree with the general sentiment: not EVERY hero should be given the dark, brooding treatment. Then again, what's worse: turning Wonder Woman into a crypto-feminist "serious" movie starring Ashley Judd, or dumbing down the source material to make the cynical Shrek audience laugh?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Marvel Rules! DC drools! Except for Batman.

    by Banzai Rootskibango

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:40 p.m. CST

    They were close

    by Philvis

    I think what is needed is simple. A serious approach. Of course there can be some comedic elements when necessary, but make it a film like The Dark Knight in the sense of you really could believe that happening. Obviously you have your comic book element to keep, but we don't want to see Batman of the 90's type films. They definitely need to be made with a certain continuity that they can be combined. Visually, we don't want to see cops outs like leather or latex costumes. Put some thought into a realistic interpretation for once. A movie doesn't have to be super dark like Batman, it just needs to feel real. If you are going to make it over the top goofball, I would rather just watch a cartoon of it. DC/WB would be flat out idiots to not invest wisely in how they approach their core characters like GL, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Arrow, Supes, etc. Singerman blew a golden opportunity with Superman Returns. It is time to allow someone else who can actually make a decent film do so.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:40 p.m. CST

    It wasn't a dark, brooding Spiderman that...

    by Shepard Wong

    people hated. It was the laughable execution of the dark and brooding Spiderman that people rejected. If you are going to do dark and brooding, you can't be hokey and goofy at the same time. No lame dance scenes. No goofy strut scene. Would people reject McFarlane's Torment story arc being adapted just because it was dark and brooding?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Superhero movies have PEAKED

    by bluebottle

    This is the beginning of the slow descent into comic book movie hackery. The only movie on the upcoming slate that could be at all interesting is Ant-Man.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST

    No Justice League movie!!!!

    by tigermonkeyclaw

    It works for comics and cartoons, but it would never work for film. The DC universe was never created for this kind of crossoverablity. Wonder Woman is Mythology, Green lantern is Sci-fi, Batman is crime drama, Superman is... I don't know, something else. I really hope we somebody takes at DC takes of Millars script, I think it would set the tone for how to deal with that character, much like Nolan did for Batman.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:48 p.m. CST

    DARK BROODING EMO-SUPERMAN... just what we need!

    by Damien Chowder

    While they're at it, Superman will need a butler named Manfred, Ma and Pa Kent is killed by a young Lex who later turns into LEX LUTHOR!! <BR> Next a Dark and brooding Bouncing Boy.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Legal issues

    by Philvis

    In 2013, the Superman copyright reverts back to the Siegels. Essentially anything in the first 6(?) Action Comics for Superman, becomes their property. They can lease it how they want. The only catch is that if it was a power that Superman had after those first 6 issues, the Superman they lease out may not be able to have them, or DC will have to be paid some kind of royalty. That is what is going on in a nutshell. Steve over at has a pretty good skinny on it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST

    You're *wrong* about emo Spidey, Harry...

    by d-rok

    have any of you read the alien suit saga? peter parker *was* a jerk while he was unknowingly serving as the host for the symbiote. the problem with spiderman 3 is not that they tried to make peter parker a jerk, it's the *way* they tried to do it. the "evil pete" dance sequence had no place in the film. none! and let's not forget how they went all "batman and robin" on us and shoved way too many characters and plotlines down our throat. i get the point you're trying to make re: "brooding characters", harry. but i think the problem with spiderman 3 was the execution of the storyline, not the fact that they went there.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:50 p.m. CST

    AMEN, Harry

    by sanzaru

    AMEN. It's always darkest before the dawn...?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Tread lightly WB.

    by Bartleby T. Scrivener

    Nolan's Batman has been a success, but that's not so much of a plan, rather it's a comment on a well-executed film(s). Superman Returns suffered from trying to pay homage to films instead of trying to establish it's own identity. Do we really need to have a bumbling Clark Kent? That may have worked in Donner's version, but we are talking about a movie that was made 30 years ago during a different time and era. It's simple: hire quality directors and writers with a unique vision, and let them try and deliver a good film. If it's good, the audience will be there. BTW, avoid the team movies(JLA and Avengers). You have 2 to 2 1/2 hours to make me interested. The last thing I need is a scorecard to keep track of who is and/or who isn't in the movie.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Another thing I don't understand....

    by Thrillho77

    Aren't we to the point where we as a general audience can handle a stand alone "Superman" or "Spider-man" story without doing a "reboot"? <p> Will anyone really be confused why a new guy is playing Peter Parker, but they never showed him get bit by the spider? <p> Bond has been the most successfully long lasting franchise ever and they've been doing exactly that. <p> And now I read on JoBlo that they want to "reintroduce" Superman?!?! WHY??? Why can't we just have a NEW Superman story?!!?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Dark and brooding

    by punkazzINC

    I say thee nay! I can only hate executives for so long. They really are only as important as the last blockbuster they were attached to. Hollywood is funny that way. Only thing you can do to stop it is to Continue to bombard the execs with what fans want.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:53 p.m. CST

    jim caviezel is kalel in park chan wook's "MAN OF STEEL"

    by ironic_name

    make it happen.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:54 p.m. CST

    I second Caviezel!

    by eric haislar

    That's a great choice!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    what about...

    by quicksilver80

    An Alan Moore's Miracleman movie? there's your dark Superman

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Kingdom Come

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    Did dark and brooding Superman quite well. I would not poo poo the notion right out of hand. I would not mind seeing Kingdom Come writer Mark Waid take a shot at scripting some of these potential films.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Spidey 3 sucked for many, many reasons...

    by fiester

    Shoehorning in the lame Venom storyline to appease fanboys, retconning Uncle Ben's death, the hokey dance sequence, the poorly handled Green Goblin, Jr. storyline--it was a shitstorm from the script and there was just no saving it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Marvel... Rules?

    by greenstyle92

    let's see... X-men did rule in it's first two movies, then it had a mostly sucky third and an embarrassing looking prequel coming. Spider-man is an emo franchise for emo teenagers that like to cry about how their lives suck and their parents suck and their quasi ugly girl who they want to be their girl friend but don't have the stones to do it friend won't fuck them, and how college is too hard because they don't like to make effort and how if they somehow got amazing super powers that would suck too... geez. Iron Man? pretty good, but it's second half suffers as it fails to produce an interesting villain and muddies it's theme. Anything with Hulk in the title? Oh fuck me. I just realized this year that Hulk is The fugitive with Superheroes, and that's lame. Fantastic Four? abortions. Dare Devil/Elektra? go to hell. Ghost Rider? Jesus Christ. Marvel suuuuucks.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:58 p.m. CST

    as for "realistic superman" see fleischer cartoons

    by ironic_name

    tone down the Fleischer shorts, make supes more like hulk in a normal sized body, bullets bounce off, he jumps really high, no laser vision.. <P> it could be done, but who needs that?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:59 p.m. CST

    "we're going to try to go dark..."

    by teddanson37

    that just sounds utterly retarded. just complete idiot hollywood exec talk, with no idea what property they have on their hands. if it's the "dark" element of batman that worked, then fire up some characters that are "dark". if it's the superhero aspect that made it work, then just make a freakin awesome superhero movie. it's simple. after the summer we've had, i thought hollywood got it. but i guess they never will.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 3:59 p.m. CST


    by mefrog

    You have a valid point there, and I agree. But still, it seems like WB shutting down those two studios just goes to show that they've turned to rely more on the "blockbuster." I completely understand from a business perspective that it is, indeed, a money maker. Yes - WB will make more money like this. Just from a filmgoing perspective, I wish things were the way they were years ago.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4 p.m. CST

    and the problem with DC characters is simple...

    by teddanson37

    they suck balls. bats is kicks @ss. the rest choke.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Harry, I agree , BUT...

    by DrunkByNoon

    Fan's did not reject a dark and brooding spiderman, they rejected a movie with as many dance numbers as fight scenes. SINGING AND DANCING DOES NOT belong in a spiderman movie. WTF, and they rejected it cause venom got relegated to a minor subplot rather then the spotlight.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:02 p.m. CST

    dark and brooding plastic man

    by ironic_name

    eel o'brian is a felon and a drug addict, he has stretchy skin.. he turns his life around and marries a down and out waitress played by deborah harry.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:02 p.m. CST


    by Parallaxmjm

    To me, that statement re: making Superman darker is being taken out of context. It was making things as dark as the characters would allow, so Superman himself wouldn't have to be dark, nor even Metropolis. He would just have to deal with darker situations, more threatening villians, etc. I think this does open the door for a Doomsday/Reign of the Superman storyline, though they would have to reboot the franchise and have that movie work first before you could go there. I just hope Green Lantern is the movie that gets the green light (no pun intended) ASAP. If the script is as good as the review says, it cries out to be made. Certainly before that Super-Max thing, which to me is a hard sell to begin with.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:05 p.m. CST

    dark and brooding hawkman - cop who has nightmares

    by ironic_name

    of being an egyptian god <P> finds out he's a dad, battles a fight fixer.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Green Arrow can go dark

    by Aeghast

    He's a Batman copycat anyway. But the rest of the guys..? Come on, it's a bad idea. Hopefully there's someone out there who will let these guys know this is wrong and could be worse if they decide to go with it and make these over-darkly silly superhero movies.. The one and only dark character is Batman--let the others be flashy and colourful

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST

    I'd love to see a dark and broody Flash

    by Larry of Arabia

    Yeah, that's TOTALLY the way to go. (WB- Please note the sarcasm)

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Batman has to use the stupid voice

    by Phategod2

    If he used "inside voice" with Gordon after a few discussion with bruce Wayne something would start to click. As for Supes I've been saying that a palatable story arc would involve Darsied kidnapping his son and turning him in Kalibak and Superman having to destroy his own son and the fighting Darksied in a subsiquent sequel.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:08 p.m. CST

    dark and realistic metal men

    by ironic_name

    class action on behalf of five men who died in a smelting accident.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Agent Johnson

    by Philvis

    Go to and message Steve(archangel). He is well versed on the situation and what possibly will and won't happen. It potentially has the possibility of becoming a majorly screwed up thing. On one hand, you root for the Siegels because WB has ruined the character of Superman, but in the same sense, there are implications that they could lease out Superman to Marvel or whatever they want. It is a really big cluster fuck of a situation.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:10 p.m. CST

    brooding green lantern

    by ironic_name

    "all these powers, and I still can't maintain an erection!"

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:10 p.m. CST

    I knew this would happen.

    by Irina Spanko

    WB execs have never gotten it, and never, ever will. Just look at their history and you shall see. Their main problem is that they chase gimmicks that worked most recently in another superhero film, like dark tone. They never realize the ones that work are the ones that match their comic originals.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Rothman Versus Hood

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    Did anyone read about the potential shenanigans with Rothman and the Wolverine movie? If this keeps going on, the talent will avoid Fox till he's gone. Who wants to put up with that shit?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:13 p.m. CST


    by Philvis

    Im hoping that Robinov is merely trying to say they are going with a more serious tone as opposed to camp. Obviously not every Superhero is brooding. Superman essentially is the opposite of Batman. The modern day Flash has a more light hearted attitude,and then you have others like WW, GL and Green Arrow. You cannot make them all brooding. I'm really hoping he just was trying to say serious and didn't mean he was making everyone have a vigilante type attitude.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST

    True Problem with Superman Returns.

    by Reverend Toast

    It was basically Fan-Fiction. Guy who loved the originals so much, decides to make a movie that follows all the original plotlines, hires actors who look and act like the originals, and basically shoot it in a similar style too. Bryan Singer has the ability to make awesome movies (X2, The Usual Suspects) but he was too much of a fan of the Superman Movies to make a good Superman story.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST

    dark and brooding gorilla grodd

    by ironic_name

    gorilla can speak english, becomes tv sensation.. is jaded, leaves for congo.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:15 p.m. CST

    superman returns WAS warner wanting a batman begins version

    by ironic_name

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Batman does not have to use Stupid voice.

    by greenstyle92

    It's Bruce wayne who uses "stupid voice." he puts on a smug and smarmy attitude. Batman uses a low whisper. It's about separation. It makes the connection more unlikely. "Smarmy Rich Drunk Asshole Bruce" = "Bumbling and Awkward Clark." Both "put ons" make sense, but oddly fans have taken to the Bruce version but have rejected the Clark version. Maybe it's because there's been a turn around on both characters. Golden and Silver Age: It was accepted that Superman was the true person and Clark the "mask" or "put on" (goes back to the immigrant assimilating metaphor thing.) Where as Bruce was the person and Batman was the mask, (because, you know, of the mask and all.) In the Modern age, writers changed that up and reversed both characters. Now Clark is the person and Superman the put on, and Batman the person and Bruce the Put on. So "Bumbling Clark" got transferred to "Rich Asshole Bruce." however, both really do make a lot of sense. Remember Superman Returns. The guy was look "you know, Clark and Superman left and returned at the same time, and they do have a similar build..." The Clark gives them that goofy wave and Lois is all like, "Oh, come on..." That to me sold the importance of "Bumbling Clark."

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    i loved Spidey 3

    by teddanson37

    ...when it came out. it was on starz the other week and, after ironman and dark knight, it was a lot worse than i remembered. the singing (which was strange a year ago) just seemed so out of place i could barely stand it. Eddie Brock was now crap from the moment he appeared on screen, and Gwen Stacy seemed pointless. Also the whole Harry making MJ break up with Pete was stupid, and riddled with holes. the biggest flaw to me is in the "climactic" battle scene, where it's continuously interupted by bad actors pretending to be news reporters to tell us how much danger spiderman is in, or by raimi's kids who just so happen to also be bad actors telling us how cool spiderman is and making the funny with JJ Jameson. I don't have a real problem with the storyline, except I think it would have worked better as a two part movie. The first ending with Pete's defeat of the Sandman in the sewers, with a cliffhanger as to what Spidey is becoming. Then Pick back up on the whole Venom/Eddie Brock storyline for the second film. Take out the dance numbers and Gwen Stacy, and you have a decent film on your hands. I disagree with Harry (as i do probably 7 times out of 10). Spidey 3 didn't fail because of the "brooding" spiderman and cuz that's not who spiderman is, that was the only thing that grounded it for me at all. That's what the movie was about. All that power minus the responsibility made Pete into something he's not. And what a better script/director would have done is through all the dark and brooding Peter Parker moments, make the audience long to see the Peter Parker we know and love, and making his return at the end all the more triumphant. i still got a kick out of him pulling out the classic suit and the spidey theme slowly building up behind it though.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Batman's shadow

    by Rolnikov

    The original Batman cast a shadow over superhero films that lasted as far as Mystery Men - I enjoyed The Dark Knight but I could see it having a similar effect.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Batmans voice......

    by BacardiRocky

    Although I know the reasons behind why Batman uses the voice with Gordon, Criminals etc...Wen he uses the voice with Lucius Fox (who knows his identity and is helping at the moment)it just got annoying. What made it worst was when Batman was giving the emotional speech at the end with this gruff voice. I wanted to laugh out loud in the theater when i first saw this. It was still the best film of the year though, just wish they toned down the voice. They should have done what Kevin Conroy did to distinguish the voices of Bruce Wayne and Batman in the Animated Series. As far as Superman. I hope they make it "dark" by killing the kid and getting rid of Singer. He brought nothing to that film. A good film is something I could watch multiple times without getting tired of it. I could sit through the first Superman and never get bored, and I have a feeling once the DVD is released The Dark Knight will be one as well. Superman Returns didn't have that "view this multiple times" feel. Once you've seen it. Do you really want to see it again?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Good luck with that.

    by thedarklinglord

    Asking your average studio to treat an established and well-loved property with RESPECT is like asking your dog to pick up your dry cleaning.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Preach it Reverend

    by Bartleby T. Scrivener

    It's exactly why fans/fanboys should never do a genre film. They are too emotionally attached and cannot see the big picture.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    IT'S SUPERMAN! by Tom De Haven

    by BrooseTheScharuk

    That should be the next Superman movie. It's actually a novel, not a comic. As a handful of others are saying here, Supes needs to go back to the 1930's. I agree that someone like Brad bird could totally do it. Fuck dark. Stop trying to appeal to emotionally stunted teenagers and give us something with heart. Superman is an example of the best that humans can be. It's his character that makes him Superman -- the super powers are beside the point. Draw heavily from the Fleishcer Brothers cartoons -- toning down the powers so that he's just really really strong and relatively invulnerable (bullets bounce off, but they still hurt), not magical -- and show us a guy who made his commitment to humanity and will not waver, no matter the personal cost. The world could use one or two expamples like that today! This just goes to show what stupid, artless cunts these studio pigs are. Superman doesn't have an evil side! Un-fucking-believable! Fucking bean counters.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Superman has so much to offer.

    by mrfan

    It just seems that all of them have been trying too hard to imitate the first one in many areas. Time to let go. Bring in new villian(s). The special effects should not be a problem. Stories should not be that hard. I vote to keep Brandon as Superman. That thought he did a good job considering what he had to work with in that movie.<p>Please. No Dark Superman. I don't want him spouting poetry off some mountain top.<p>Bad move, DC. Bad move.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Jim Cazaviel

    by Bruce T Shark

    Me too. I always wanted to see him take on the role of big blue. He always has that "not from this planet look" anyway. I'd love Supes to never have his feet touch the ground too.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:23 p.m. CST

    More Batman voiced like Walls sausage dog

    by MrJJonz

    Commish: "Hey Bats what was stolen from this butchers"<p>Bats: "Sausages" in total Bale Batman voice.<P>This post will probably only make sense to people in the uk

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Jim Cazaviel?

    by greenstyle92

    Boy, that says a lot about the heart of the current Superhero fan. Feeling the need for some meaning in your life?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST

    I vote for Brainiac as the villian

    by mrfan

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST

    If Batman is down in the gutter, then Superman should be in the

    by DeusExMachina

    When I go to see Superman at the movies, I not only want to see a good story and a villain that is respected, but I also want to see Superman and that villain doing some major Goku vs Freiza type damage to Metropolis. If Batman is dark, brooding, and just fucking miserable, Then Superman should be the total opposite. He should represent hope on a planet wide scale. While Batman is down in the trenches and in the gutter, Superman is high above the clouds in the light. While Batman's villains bring down the property value in Gotham, Superman's villains should rock the world. When Superman meets Batman, they shouldn't like each other at first because they have two totally different views of the world and their methods of doing things clash. So what are these executives smoking?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:28 p.m. CST

    I know who to blame now if

    by Spartan_Im_Not

    Tom Welling is cast as the new Supes. That emo pretty boy will sink this franchise if cast. Keep Routh on the project. He was not that bad.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Jim Cazaviel seems like a nice guy.. but haunted

    by ironic_name

    and he WANTED to be superman.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:29 p.m. CST

    thats why he'd be good.

    by ironic_name

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Don't reboot Superman

    by Macstone

    We don't need to sit thru another origin story. Granted, the last one was not what we were all hoping for, but that doesn't mean they can't just move on and do a Brainac or Darkseid story. Aside from what Harry said about Lex being portraid wrong by both Hackman and Spacey, Donner's take on Superman is something that won't be easy to top.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:31 p.m. CST

    If you want to make Supes bad

    by Spartan_Im_Not

    then go the Frank Miller route. Adapt the Dark Knight Returns. Supes would be the most terrifying thing on earth if he were some uber-American patriot on government pay. Think of it like the physical manifestation of the USA PATRIOT ACT.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:35 p.m. CST

    So Moronic!


    I loved the Dark Knight it was aptly named but on second viewing it struck me it wasn't much fun, I don't want that to change with regards to Nolans way of doing things but I think comic books aren't all as fucking predictable as these assKnob producers! and that's why fans like certain ones and not others. Ironman was so great because it got all the elements nearly perfect from the humour to the FX to the plot. Batman was none more black and all the better because it was a realistic asdult kick up the wazoo for comic book movies into the realms of the Graphic novel, but do I want a Graphic novel Thor or seriously suicidal Superman? No! variety is the spice. But then i guess it all comes down to repeating the formula that made the most $$$$ which is a sad truth and nothing to do with the bloody fans or movie goers at all!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:36 p.m. CST

    or even the source material!!!



  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Jim Cazaviel And Blandness

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    All Jim Cazeviel can do is look at things and people. Would you want a Superman film of him just looking at people...with compassion? Superman is always portrayed so blandly. Is he bland? Is he just his superpowers + his moral + his nature as a symbol? Does Superman have a sense of humour? What kind of joke would Superman find funny? Does he not not crack jokes because he believes it isn't him? What would Superman say to someone like George W. Bush? Does Superman ever wonder about his dealings with Louis Lane? He's an alien, is his affection for her normal?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST

    They're already making a dark Superman movie

    by mefrog

    It's called Watchmen and in it, Superman doesn't give a shit.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST


    by LHombreSiniestro

    I mean come the fuck on!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:41 p.m. CST


    by The Dum Guy

    Are they meaning to incorporate the entire DC universe based on the Dark Knights world? So, they wouldn't make each hero a Batman redux, but have that vision of Gotham be the cornerstone to the entire future films.<br><br>If they aren't going for that, I don't want to have to see a half dozen films all based on the same premise.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:42 p.m. CST

    There are 2 types of Geeks in the world....

    by uberman

    Do you love: DC or Marvel? Star Wars or Star Trek? Werewolves or Vampires? Classic Disney or Pixar? Classic monsters or slasher horror? Playboy or Penthouse? Godzilla or King Kong? Apocalypse Now or The Deerhunter? Playstation or X Box? Emo or Metal? Beatles or the Stones? AICN or CHUD? Sharks or Crocodiles? Big cats or bears? Tits or ass? Sci Fi or creature features? Stephen King or Dean Koontz? Pepsi or Coke? Lake monsters or Bigfoot? Speilberg or Cameron or Lucas? Choose wisely...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:43 p.m. CST


    by mrfan

    The possibilities are unlimited.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:43 p.m. CST

    He does the same thing In Batman:TAS

    by Phategod2

    when he's alfred or whomever if has the mask on he changes his voice it's not as drastic as Bale's voice change but it always struck me as odd. Not annoying

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Harry, you might be overreacting...

    by LoneGun well as misrepresenting Robinov in your article. In the Wall Street Journal piece, Rovinov is quoted as saying this: "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it." *TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CHARACTERS ALLOW IT* These actually sound like the words of someone interested in preserving the integrity of the DC mythology. He's not quoted as saying he wants the next batch of films to be as brooding as THE DARK KNIGHT. (The Wall Street Journal says that, and it might be an exaggeration on their part.)<p>Perhaps Robinov deserves a little more credit than you give him. After all, he did help foster the making of two truly great Batman films. And as the Journal article points out, Christopher Nolan praises Robinov in helping to make these movies. Harry, you talk a good game about how "the key to all of these (super)heroes are their villains" but you fail to point out Robinov's unique contribution in developing the villains of both Batman films, especially the Joker.</p>To me, it sounds like these next DC super-hero movies are being handled with a respectable amount of care. It's admirable that JLA is being delayed because of "script problems". And it's exciting that Warners is at least trying to get these franchises right.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:44 p.m. CST

    DeusExMachina And Dragon Ball Z

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    You struck on a very interesting point there regarding Goku. Dragonball Z is just a Japanized version of Superman. Other than the fight sequences, which even The Matrix Revolutions couldn't rip off properly, is there anything else Dragonball Z could teach the makers of the next Superman? Well probably not...but it's an amusing comparison.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:45 p.m. CST


    by LHombreSiniestro

    "I'm tha kung-fu hippie, from gangsta city!"

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:47 p.m. CST

    is this the guy who approved the Superman Returns script?

    by Rupee88

    If so, then there is no hope and he'll never have a brain. Of course that film was profitable, but it clearly could have been much moreso. But maybe he got where he is by playing it safe and great movies are not always part of that equation.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:48 p.m. CST

    superman cracks weird jokes [so does jim caveizel]

    by ironic_name

    and he did a good job in frequency, and deja vu looks interesting.. superman, as an alien WOULD have a lot of "looking at people" <P> and mcaulay culkin was a bastard in richy rich.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:48 p.m. CST

    WARNERS--Don't Overthink This

    by Johnnie Walker

    You've got great material in the books, just follow Marvel's lead and adapt core concepts for the screen. Focus on the things that translate well (i.e. Batman existing in the real world, with real tools). What I want to know is, how is this policy change affecting the already-in-the-works Greg Berlanti Green Lantern, or the Shawn (God help us) Levy Flash...?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:48 p.m. CST

    If They REALLY Want To Duplicate TDK's Success......

    by thelordofhell

    The executives need to make sure that whatever actor plays Superman's villain in the next movie dies before it comes out.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:51 p.m. CST

    dark and realistic powergirl

    by ironic_name

    woman has big tittays, wears suit, they jiggle. you know, that would make for a cool movie.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:51 p.m. CST

    JLA will never happen b/c

    by Spartan_Im_Not

    WB finally realizes that Christian Bale is Batman. The American public has accepted Bale as Batman and has fully bought into Nolan's vision of Gotham. JLA will never get done while Nolan & Bale sit at the helm. Till then I expect WB to fast-track either this Superman reboot or The Flash. You can't do Green Lantern before Superman only b/c both guys FLY. It'd be alittle redundant imo. And since Superman is the bigger name property -- do it first.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:52 p.m. CST

    And speaking of great material

    by Johnnie Walker

    You want to do Superman justice? Take a page (or 120) from Morrison's All-Star Superman. Act 1: Superman exposed to an overdose of solar rays, and catches Luthor for good. Rest of movie is him trying to wrap things up and find a cure. Lose the Bizarro/Zibarro middle-issue stuff and keep the GREAT comedy with him and Lois (and Luthor in jail). You get to go back to some of those earlier Kevin Smith/Death of Supes ideas, but infuse them with all the imagination that Morrison is known for. A PERFECT foil for the gritty realistic Batman.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:54 p.m. CST

    I would love for an HBO Kingdom Come miniseries

    by BacardiRocky

    Its been mentioned already that they should do a film using the story of Kingdom Come but I say do it one better. Since DC Comics is under the same umbrella with HBO, I wish they would do an HBO Miniseries of Kingdom Come. Just set it apart from any of the film series. Get older actors to play the characters. A story like Kingdom Come would be hard to pull off on the big screen in one film, and though there is talk that Snyder is doing just that with "Watchmen" I would rather like to see such a grand series done as a mini series instead. Then again, it won't happen because they want to sell movie tickets. Fucking greedy as fucks.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Don't reboot Superman

    by doubledown44

    or I will reboot you!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Very well said, Harry. I hope the suits are listening.

    by Heckles

    You freakin' pegged it- "each character realized". That's what is about. Batman is not that jackass from 'Batman & Robin'. Dark and brooding for the sake of being dark and brooding is mindless studio bullshit. Each of the main DC heroes can be featured in a movie with different tones. GREEN LANTERN can be more of a sci-fi flick. WONDER WOMAN is more of an over-the-top action film, like something Bay would do, but not so shitty. As much as I like MARTIAN MANHUNTER, HAWKMAN, GREEN ARROW, or THE FLASH can fill a movie. One runs really fast! One shoots arrows! One is... from Mars! Team a couple of them up. Make it a buddy flick, who knows.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Superman must be rebooted.

    by fiester

    They gave him a super-powered son, fer crissakes! Are you people high? A reboot is the only thing that can save this franchise from what Singer did to it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Hey, Robinov, wanna know the secret?

    by necgray

    Write them all as a mediocre crime drama full of plot holes and directionless subplots, then hire a bunch of Oscar-caliber actors and a great visual artist director to make it look all "cool" and "dark" and "gritty" and whatever other hyperbolic bullshit words people have used to describe the LOOK of the thing as opposed to the STORY, which was so flawed I'm shocked that so many reviewers have given it a pass. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to come into talkbacks and denounce Dark Knight's script, but I guess that's the burden of a dissenting opinion...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:05 p.m. CST

    I actually wanted to see a comedy Green Lantern

    by TallBoy66

    You can only do superserious origin movies so much until the formula gets stale. I liked the idea of some schumck finding a power ring and going hogwild with it. You don't have to be totally reverent with every property, it's Green Lantern.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Billy Zane as Luthor.

    by JediRob


  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:08 p.m. CST

    What I Find Peculiar Is...

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    Singer is a sci-fi nerd. He never read comic books as a kid, he read sci-fi novels. You'd think then he'd have been all too ready to bring in the more sci-fi elements to Returns. Would it have been fun for Superman to return to earth to find an impostor doing his job and everything being business as usual? Also is there a way to include characters like Bizarro and Metallo without their ridiculous names. What are they Italian? Maybe the mob made them?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Fire Singer, keep Routh and almost no one else

    by reflecto

    Maybe Langella as Perry and Sam Huntington as Jimmy. But Singer is the king of big-budget mediocrity. He made the X-Men, some of the most outlandish, colorful characters out there, into a droning monotone and did the same to Superman. As a gay fan, I was also annoyed as fuck by his endless repeating of the same tired "outsider looking in" crypto-gay metaphor, which he applied to everyone from Wolverine and Rogue to fucking SUPERMAN. Cast Rachel McAdams or Winona Ryder as Lois. Use Brainiac as the villain. Let the Green Lantern Corps cameo as Supes' backup against Brainiac. Use a real budget, a great director and writer with a full vision just as Nolan had one, and spend the money and take the time to craft a huge, bright, optimistic quality product that has both action and art. So few comic films still do that; IMHO, of the latter-day flicks, only Nolan's Batman films, Iron Man, and Hulk got it right. As for Wonder Woman, I still say Jennifer Connelly.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:10 p.m. CST

    What would you do-oo-ooh...

    by socalactor

    WONDER WOMAN: Should be suitably epic, with a firm grounding in mythology. Much like the rumored approach to Marvel's THOR, it should be set firmly in the distant past of the DC Universe, focusing on the battle for the throne of Olympus, the Amazons' role in that battle, and the creation of Diana as the supreme Amazon warrior. SUPERMAN: Reboot this franchise, show the destruction of Krypton, perhaps even have the Science Council wondering why the Guardians aren't helping them, and focus on the Metropolis story with a heavy focus on how Supermans's appearance upsets Luthor's applecart. GREEN LANTERN: Sci-fi the hell out of this franchise. The death of Abin Sur and the portents of the Blackest Night. The selection of Jordan and his education by Sinestro. End the first film with the fall of Sinestro in battle with Hal, and tease the rise of the Sinestro Corps. GREEN ARROW: Batman with a bow. Plan and simple. MARTIAN MANHUNTER: Go noir, maybe even set it in the 40s with a great detective story, and end with him sort of sliding into obscurity, until such time as the world is ready to accept an alien among them. THE FLASH: Fast, fast, fast. Use Captain Cold as the major villain in the first one, and use Barry as well. The continuing theme of detective work, perhaps even have Captain John Jones in charge of Barry's section. - Building to a JLA flick: Why weren't the guardians able to prevent the destruction of Krypton? What destroyed life on Mars? Has it ever come to Earth? If it did, maybe it was the Olympians who stopped it before. They're gone now, so who stands for Earth? Who can fill in for Hermes, Zeus, Athena, and the rest? I bet the telepath who's been kicking it on Earth knows...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Media Messiah made a good point...

    by sundancekeed

    If Warners (or Marvel for that matter) want to make comic book movies that appeal to comic book fans, then why the hell not actually show the scripts to some honest to goodness comic book readers who know the backstory, know how the character is portrayed in the comics, etc. It wouldn't have to be a slavish reproduction of the comic world but at least you might get the flavor of the character. If something like that had been in place, maybe we wouldn't have gotten "Batman, The Gay Blade" by Joel Schumacher. A lot of filmmakers have never read comics, which frankly surprises me because that's basically the same thing as storyboarding a movie. But it's the main reason why most comics based movies have always sucked. The license the name and the costume but don't have a clue what the actual comic is about. And also, most comic book movies seemingly are made by the suits at a studio rather than by people who're making the film for the fans. The reason Chris Nolan's Batman has worked so well is because he respects the source material but isn't held hostage by it. Bryan Singer did the same thing for X-Men but look what happened when he fell into lockstep with Donner and Lester's Superman. He made a movie that was a pale imitation of two decent (but not great, due to Luthor and Otis) versions of Superman. And I'm still trying to figure out why Superman had a brown S on his chest in Singer's version. Ma Kent couldn't afford Tide? I'd love to see faithful versions of Flash, Green Lantern, etc. But I'm not holding my breath.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:12 p.m. CST

    arnold vosloo as lex

    by ironic_name

    remember habib marwan from 24?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Carla Cugino

    by Phategod2

    Can we please Have Carla Cugino recast as Lois Lane or Wonderwoman.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:14 p.m. CST

    TallBoy66 And Green Lantern

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    Well as the review of the comedy (Jack Black) Green Lantern script pointed out, why does it have to be Green Lantern then? Can't you just make up a new character like Hancock and leave the original alone? Did anyone read the review of the latest Green Lantern script? Apparently the problem now is that it's too big and epic, and that Berlanti guy probably couldn't handle the scale. Has anyone ever seen his film, The Broken Heart's Club? Horrible! Singer at least started out with the Usual Suspects.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    arnold vosloo?

    by Phategod2

    Sorry for the double post but isnt that the guy from the Mummy 1 and 2.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't mind the boyish routh if he had a suit that wasn't sh

    by ironic_name

    he trained like a bastard for superman, then they poured him into a wetsuit.. <P> uh-uh, an alien suit with heat seams.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Harry, Superman IV dark?

    by Anakin Whoopass

    To the extent it made any sense at all, with its completely FUBAR production woes, Superman IV wasn't dark. If anything Superman was overly idealistic. Sure you're not thinking of Bad Superman in III? Which was the best part of that movie, btw, but only because Bad Supes loses the fight with his good self.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Jesus christ these fucking suits

    by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World

    Why am I always amazed with their displays of complete ignorance in understanding anything. How the fuck do these people come to be? They have to be grown or some shit, I can't believe these are actual people with actual fucking thoughts.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern should crib heavily from Johns

    by reflecto

    Introduce the color spectrum and all that. You can use any Earth GL you want, though: Hal, Kyle, John, it makes no real difference except to angry fanboys. I think Kyle or John have more possibilities for a great film. Then just re-work "Emerald Dawn" and GL's initial partnership and betrayal by Sinestro for the original film.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST

    I disagree with a lot of people here.

    by Damien Chowder

    I'm down with a Superman reboot because Singer's version doesn't exist in my mind. Nothing bloody happened!<p> What Hollycrud writers have done since the emergence of artists like Aronofsky, Fincher and Nolan etc is copy them and they haven't snapped out of it. <p> They apply deep meaning and brooding characters to stories that don't need it and never had any in the first place. <p> You guys ever seen the Orange mobile phone ads in the cinema with with the idiot crew of film execs and producers? It's funny because they are most likely too true to reality.<p> Spider-man 3.... Problems... Well for starters since Kirsten Dunst's MJ is the whineyist mutha focker of all time. A crap MJ since day 1. Rather than people say that Venom was chucked in for us fanboys... Well to me it should have just been Venom and nobody else! A dark and violent Spider-man film. No frikkin skinny kid as Brock. The dancing scene was good and most of you guys didn't see that emo Peter Parker was portrayed as silly rather Raimi thinking it would have been cool.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Unpopular Opinion; Katar Hol HAWKMAN is a good idea

    by reflecto

    Use the old "Hawkworld" series and the alien Hawkman to do a solid, not as epic-scale as the others but good, stand-alone DC film like Green Arrow in "Supermax."

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:20 p.m. CST


    by DarthBakpao

    not dark or brooding, you idiots at WB!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:21 p.m. CST

    and i still think CAVIEZEL would make a perfect SuperMAN

    by DarthBakpao

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:24 p.m. CST

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    IESB's take on the new Green Lantern script. Worth a look.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Build up to a KINGDOM COME movie...

    by Rindain

    Yeah, that would rock, plus you would get the awesome fascist Superman with dark overtones.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Fucking halfwits!

    by Samson_K

    I was having a talk with my mate last night and his nine year old son. The kid was genuinely crestfallen that he couldn't see 'The Dark Knight' - he loves Batman but doesn't have a screen Batman that caters for him.<BR><BR>Now much as I love 90% of TDK - I do kind of feel sorry for the youngsters who can't see it because of responsible parents and even if they did see it would be bored by it.<BR><BR>That's why I didn't think a kid-friendly JL was such a bad idea because like it or not - every superhero film in the world is not going to be for us.<BR><BR>Or so I thought<BR><BR>Dark Superman??? Dark Flash??? Dark Ambush Bug????<BR><BR>This is one of the shittiest ideas that I have ever heard - we need Superman to be flying through bright skies saving us all<BR><br>It's like when Justice League International came out - I fucking loved that comic because in a sea of Dark Knight Returns inspired darkness this was a comic book that was fun and entertaining and funny as Hell!<BR><br>That's what we need in the movies you Warner Brothers dolts - light and shade!<BR><BR>Of course if Watchmen tanks (which I sincerely hope it doesn't) we'll see all DC superheroes going ultra kid friendly again.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Official "I told ya'll so

    by ckane123

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:36 p.m. CST


    by Godovhellfire

    I want Superchilli for lunch. For real this time!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Official "I told ya'll so" posting

    by ckane123

    Sorry, accidentally hit the return key (Harry, can you invest SOME time/energy into making this talkback work better?) <br>I remember posting many many messages in Superman Returns message threads at AICN saying "SR underperformed, isn't very good, and there will never be a Singer-lead sequel" and got slammed/criticized/lambasted. Where are the SR fans? Isn't this horrible news for them? Or did the film just not age well, or pales in comparison to a GOOD comic based flick (like... hmm.. the Dark Knight?) Anyone? Anyway, I agree, a Dark Superman film is NOT the way to go... but clearly Singer's "remake Superman: the Movie and remind everyone Christopher Reeve is still dead" take didn't work either.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:39 p.m. CST

    Oh, and if you recast Superman...

    by ckane123

    Jon Hamm, from Mad Men. We need a Super MAN, not the boy-man that Singer cast.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:42 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    There are plenty of comics and cartoons of Batman for kids that age. There's nothing wrong with having a Batman story that adults can appreciate.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:45 p.m. CST

    by oneragga

    The thing is, the Superman films of the past were reflections of the decades in which they were made. The problem with Superman, and the reason for the title/character relaunch in ’86, was the same reason the last film was not as successful as hoped; who the hell wants to watch 2/12 hours of Supes military-pressing increasingly heavier shit? We don’t need to see the fucking origin yet again, Smallville, Donner flicks, first five minutes of Returns have covered it. What I’d like to see is what exactly in this world, can test a guy who can lift 50% of it into orbit on any given Sunday? That’s why Superduperman 2 worked; he had to use his brain and brawn to scrap with 3 cats who could seriously open a can of whup-ass on him individually. Superman is fantasy by nature, he does everything every little kid wants to do when they are allowed to let their imaginations run wild. So make the fucking thing fantastic. One thing I still love about the first movie is the fact that despite all his badasserey, he can’t be in two places at once…just like Bats in TDK. Some element of that perhaps…plus a big ass, physical test. Which is why I think Doomsday would work, if the damn shit dvd cartoon and the elements of him “dying” in Returns haven’t fucked that idea. Or maybe something from that novel from the 70’s, Last Son of Krypton. The way that thing was written was pretty kick ass. But I don’t go to a Superman movie to see his day-glo suit wearing ass brood all fucking day….fly bitch, fly!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:51 p.m. CST

    If this "new direction" gives us a great movie Lex

    by David Cloverfield

    I'm all for it. They've finally got the Joker right, now it's time for Lex, who I've always found more fascinating, for the same reasons Harry wrote. Man kind's savior who got cheated out of his destiny for some alien smuck. The ultimate human, vs the alien Superman. That's cool stuff. Get someone young and imposing and we're talking. TAS, Red Son... Luthor can be the greatest villain ever if used well.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Hit the mark

    by descolado

    Hi, Harry It is the first time I wrote in the talkbacks... "The key isn't to make all the heroes realistic vigilantes - that hate themselves. The key is to take their villains serious." I just wanna say that you hit the nail in the head. Pitty that these stupid "executive brains" will never listen.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Also Supes vs. Lex = Kid vs. Grownup

    by David Cloverfield

    as world views go. Supes is what we want to be when we grow up, but we all end up as Lex. There's some powerful cinema to be made there. Either that, or I'm drunk.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Here's The Story Of "Invincible"--Pretty Great!!!

    by Media Messiah

    Family Matters (Issues 1-4) <BR><BR> 'Markus Sebastian "Mark" Grayson is a teenage superhero who calls himself Invincible. He was a normal high school senior with a normal part-time job and otherwise normal life, except his father Nolan is the superhero Omni-Man, the most powerful superhero on the planet. At the age of 17, Mark begins to display superpowers, which come from his father being a member of the Viltrumite race, who, according to Nolan, pioneer the galaxy on a mission of benevolence and enlightenment. As Invincible, Mark begins working as a superhero, with his father acting as his mentor, and meeting other heroes. Mark worked occasionally with a superhero team called the Teen Team (consisting of Robot, Rex Plode, Dupli-Kate and Atom Eve), from there discovering that his Physics teacher has been turning his students into human bombs. He stops his teacher with the help of the heroine, Atom Eve. He also foils a plan to make an army of robots, created by the Mauler Twins. Meanwhile Omni-Man is kidnapped by aliens, taken to another dimension, but returns after what seems to be only a few days, but was actually eight months to him.<BR><BR> Eight Is Enough (Issues 5-8)<BR><BR> Invincible goes into space to fight Allen the Alien. After an initially hostile encounter, Mark discovers that Allen has actually been employed to test the stregnth of superheroes. Allen realises he is on the wrong planet and leaves. Mark goes to college with his friend William, where he is attacked by a mysterious robot zombie (later revealed to be one of DA Sinclair's 'Reanimen')and in the process, William learns of his secret identity. Mark begins dating his classmate, Amber Bennet and Eve's boyfriend Rex Plode has an affair with Dupli-Kate. Meanwhile, earths' premier superhero team, The Guardians Of The Globe are brutally murdered by Omni-Man. Only the de-powered Black Sampson survives. At the funeral, Sampson's butler destroys the graves, jealous that somebody killed the Guardians before he did. Nobody knows that Omni-Man killed the heroes, but an investigation is launched. After the funeral, the Mauler Twins dig up the body of the Immortal. <BR><BR> Perfect Strangers (Issues 9-13)<BR><BR> The Guardians Of The Globe hold auditions for a new team. All of the Teen Team (except Atom Eve)are hired into the new team (led by Robot) by Cecil Steadman, head of the global defence agency. Monster Girl and Shrinking Ray are also hired. Mark and Eve stop a team of criminals called the Lizard League from poisoning the water supply. The Mauler Twins reanimate The Immortal, the leader of the old Guardians, who fights Omni-Man. Invincible arrives to see his father rip the Immortal in half. Omni-Man then explains that the Viltrumite is actually a race of alien invaders, and he was sent to initiate a hostile takeover of Earth. His father describes everyone on the planet as meaningless and insignificant. Mark defies his father and the ensuing battle results in thousands of deaths and just as Omni-Man is about to kill his son, he flies off into space. After Mark recovers, he is hired by Cecil Steadman as a professional super hero. Eve and Mark's friend William embark on a relationship. Mark's mother is left into a state of shock. Invincible flies into space to find that Allen the Alien has returned, warning him that his father is a Viltrumite. Mark replies that Allen is too late and that he knows and he has turned against his father. Mark says that all that's left is to finish high school.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:01 p.m. CST


    by Earthquake WestCoast

    I'm not surprised by the STUPID decision by WB execs. They know NOTHING about film. A lot of them are just former lawyers and business people who get hired by their friends.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Not completely wrong...

    by DanielKurland

    Some of my favorite moments in the new Hulk were when they explored how fucked up he was, like when he freaks out in the shower, and just breaks down and cries. Or when he's coughing up blood. You don't always need to be dark, just properly show how big these super people affects them. That's what Dark Knight did.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:02 p.m. CST

    PS-The Above Came From Wikipedia

    by Media Messiah

    Invincible is just a stand-out property and many of the characters can easily be spun-off into other movies.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:03 p.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    Which is why they canned GLOBAL FREQUENCY when it could've been the biggest TV series since THE X-FILES; they feted Singer's X-MEN movies (which were, let's face it, boring as fucking hell) and allowed him to make that turgid self-indulgent borefest SNOOZEMAN RETURNS (Act III: unconscious Supes in plane piloted by James fucking Marsden of all people, vs a fucking wave. Seriously.); they managed to make a half-decent CONSTANTINE by keeping the tone but casting Bill S fucking Preston esquire when it should have been Paul Bettany - preferably set in the UK; they haven't had the fucking sense to see what could have been with a PREACHER trilogy, instead letting Mark "fucking GHOST RIDER! Seriously!" Read Johnson piss all over it with HBO; they've managed to take some of the greatest adult comic characters ever created and systematically fucking ruin any chance of them being faithfully recreated up on the big screen. And Jeff "no fucking clue" Robinov is just going to keep that shit streak going and going.<P> A fucking dark Superman movie. Dark fucking Superman? I never thought I'd say this, but bring back Michael Bay or McG, because some over-the-top flag-waving ultra-patriotism might be the only thing that can save that franchise from its own fucking studio. How do these dumb fucks manage to keep breathing without instruction?!?!?!?<P> DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:09 p.m. CST

    A Superman movie can't be done well anymore

    by performingmonkey

    It's fucking impossible! The very essence of Superman will have to be raped to make it suitable for today's audience. The Dark Knight was PERFECT because darkness sells (as long as it's PG-13) and also the world of celebrity got entangled with the movie due to Heath Ledger's death. Suddenly you're getting people who couldn't give a fuck about seeing a Batman movie wanting to see The Dark Knight because of Heath Ledger. This is forgiven, of course, because Ledger was fucking amazing in the movie, The Dark Knight was FANTASTIC. However, you can't go down that road with all comic book movies and expect them to succeed. You need talented directors and writers for a start.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:09 p.m. CST


    by Earthquake WestCoast

    Batman was dark because the comic and character was dark. Superman is suppose to be the opposite. And the other DC characters are a mix inbetween. But to make every film DARK just because TDK made lots of money is just plain stupid. It's just the shiny new toy. Disney made the same mistake when they got rid of their 2D animation division, just because 3D films were the "IN" thing. The same "receipe" doesn't work for everything. If Iron Man went as dark as TDK, I guarantee you that movie would of FAILED.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Hire socalactor, RIGHT NOW!

    by spud mcspud

    Because that little campaign of movies he/she came up with is far away cooler than anything WB has managed so far from their DC franchises. Yep, even from TDK, which I absolutely loved, but still hate the high-handed overly-serious tone of. Why is the Joker the only person having fun in that movie?!?!?<P> Seriously. Hire socalactor NOW and make those movies!!! I'm sold.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Fuck Superman

    by Damage_Inc

    There is nothing interesting about an invulnerable super hero. It's already been done to death anyway. If they want to keep him around so bad, they can just put him where he deserves to be. Comic books or television. Though Reeves was good in the part, there has never been an all around good Superman movie anywayy. Yeah, I said it.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:12 p.m. CST


    by Earthquake WestCoast

    As long as they bring something to the story and character. But, just to be dark for the sake of "darkness" is pathetic.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:17 p.m. CST

    By "almost", you mean WB doesn't get it at all.

    by DEX

    Reading Robinov's comments gave me a laugh, he's like a parody of a movie executive. It's pretty obvious that Robinov is just a businessman trying to duplicate the success of The Dark Knight and totally missing the point. "Respect and grandeur" - that's it. We don't want to see the same thing over and over again. Each character is unique and should not be put through a grinder to make them all dark. The key is to take the material seriously (you can still have humour) and have talented people behind it! Wonder Woman should be next - it's time for an iconic female hero to take to the screen.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:18 p.m. CST

    The thing with Supes is...

    by spud mcspud

    The best graphic novels are the ones that pit him against Batman morally, as Batman always sees a problem from an inherently realistic/nihilistic point-of-view, and Supes always has the optimistic, good-will-out view going on. Batman believes inthe worst in people, Supes believes in the best of people. This could actually work in a movie, given a writer who fucking understands that level of duality. I'd say team Nolan with Goyer for that gig, but can Nolan handle the level of optimism that Supes requires to work as a character?<P> Oh, and Damage-Inc - not to nitpick, but Supes isn't invulnerable. He can be hurt or killed by kryptonite, magic, and possibly prolonged lack of exposure to any sunlight. I think a half-decent scriptwriter has enough jeopardy there to work with... just don't let Bryan Singer anywhere near it!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:21 p.m. CST

    spud mcspud

    by Damage_Inc

    You know who would have been the perfect Constantine? Dennis Leary.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:22 p.m. CST


    by Earthquake WestCoast

    Imagine being the last of your race. With ultimate power. Power corrupts people, yet you're fighting that temptation every day! It would be SO DAM EASY TO GET WHATEVER YOU WANT! TAKE IT BY FORCE! WHO WILL STOP YOU? don't. Instead of using this ultimate power for personal gain, you use it to help those weaker than you. People love you. Yet, there's so many people that call for you. So many people that need help and you can't save them all. You also have to keep your identity a secret, and therefore you have to control your PRIDE. If someone messes with clark kent, he has to just take it, even though he could crush them. He's just like Batman, except Clark chooses to help people not out of avenging his parents, but out of compassion for the weak. AND SUPERMAN IS NOT INVULNERABLE. HIS POWERS HAVE LIMITS! HAVEN'T ANY OF YOU FANBOYS SEEN "SUPERMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES"? Supes had trouble stopping a plane. And imagine if you gave him villians like Darksied, etc. It could be awesome!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:27 p.m. CST

    by nilskidoo

    wait til they see my screenplay for Leonard Part 7.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:28 p.m. CST

    When will Hollywood get it?

    by richjb77

    Its very simple stick to the comics it works ( Dark Knight, Ironman, Spiderman 1, X-men) Try to change the comics it doesn't work (Catwoman, League of Gentlemen and Spider-man 3)....or lack of action sux too ( Superman) seriously....2 hours and he caught a plane..lifted a plane...and a island...

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:29 p.m. CST


    by Earthquake WestCoast

    I want to see a Wonder Woman film, but make her as girly as Lynda Carter. NO MUSCLES! Wonder Woman didn't get strong by working out! She's strong because she got superpowers! Therefore any amazon babe would be strong, even a 14 year amazonian schoolgirl could kick all our collective butts! So get a non-muscular woman to be Wonder Woman, and make her act femine. Then have her kick butt and save the day. Oh, and HAVE IT TAKE PLACE IN THE 40s! And give her WW costume, NO BLACK LEATHER! Or anything dark. (talking to you Mr. WB exec)

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:30 p.m. CST


    by SilentP

    Man, these guys will take any excuse not to be faithful to the source material. <br> "Why do you think The Dark Knight was so successful?" <Br> "Because it took the character seriously?" <br> "No, you moron, because it was dark! People like darkness! All our movies must be dark from now on!" <br> Coming Summer 2010 - THE DARK MAN OF STEEL - STARRING DENZEL WASHINGTON

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:30 p.m. CST

    Dark Supes?

    by Roffstafarian

    Well, I dunno. Maybe if he actually threw a fucking punch this time around I'd be interested. To tell you the truth, when I read that James Marsden was cast in SINO, I thought that he had replaced Superboy as the title role and all I could think was "Good." I'd like to see him take a crack at it. Also, give us Laurence Fishburne as Lex. Just imagine that voice taunting Superman. And whoever said that Carla Gugino would make a good Lois? Fucking stellar. If the Superman films should take anything from the Nolan Batmans, it's to cast grown ups in these roles. I mean, I think it says something when Smallville is able to churn out more mature stories than Superman Returns was able to. Yeah, that's all I've got for now.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:31 p.m. CST

    WB = We Be RETARDED when it comes to superhero properties.

    by TheIronManofSteel

    Okay...when are the big wigs at DC going to understand what their problem is? WARNER BROTHERS...wait out the contracts and sell EVERYTHING to Sony, or shoot, even Lionsgate would work. You can't take what works for one superhero, and use that as a formula to create movies for every other superhero. Wonder Woman deserves to be treated like a crazy Amazonian/Jungle/Old-School Clash of the Titans type film. Green Lantern, I agree should have a crazy Sci-fi flair...let J.J. Abrams direct it! Flash...could be handled in a variety of ways...either way, the effects have to be on point...let I.L.M. head it up, or Weta. Same with Martian's got to be believable (to an extent), but still stretch our imaginations...because that's what superheroes do. They're a side of us (the fans), that we can't experience any other way than film or comics, and since we watch the movies, and we buy the comics, and we support all your employees and pay all your bills, I think we deserve the best...which leads me to Superman. Superman is a character I hold near and dear to my heart, and after the regurgitated pig-brain of a movie that was Superman Returns. A watered-down completely mind-numbing version of what had potential to be a good movie, I feel we deserve Darkseid, even Doomsday, throw in Conduit, Leech, SOMETHING that will cause us to grab our armrests and scream at the top of our lungs...GIVE US SOMETHING WARNER BROS.! ANYTHING!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:31 p.m. CST

    DC characters, overall, not as popular as Marvel

    by Heckles

    Batman and Superman are iconic. But Marvel has more upper echelon and mid level characters, popularity wise. Seriously, is anyone really crying out for a Hawkman movie? Aquaman? Please. DC characters are bland, boring.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:32 p.m. CST

    To the above comments

    by Damage_Inc

    Yeah, I get it. Kryptonite is his weakness. The sun is his power. Jesus Christ. You'll have to come up with a better argument than that to prove that Superman is cool.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:33 p.m. CST

    Did I just see a Pantene commercial on this talkback?

    by Heckles

    I know AICN has to pay the bills, but shit, can't you at least give ZJ's to unassuming travelers in an airport bathroom to keep the lights on?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Like I said a year ago...

    by comx

    Del Toro would be awesome for Superman. Whether it's Darkseid or Brainiac. And Statham could make Aquaman kick ass.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Warner Execs, please read

    by namasteandgoodluck

    Stand alone franchise films is not the way to go. It works for Marvel because their characters are (with the exception of their corporate mainstays Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman, the Flash and perhaps Green Lantern) are a little more "relatable" to, better aesthetics and are more compelling. For empirical data on that check comic book, action figure and other merchandise sales info. DC isn't completely lackluster. The Paul Dini animated era is possibly one of the greatest accomplishments in animation. They captured the essence of who these characters were supposed to be, beautifully if I may say so. A standalone Martian Manhunter movie wouldn't be a sound financial risk, nor is the character worth the endeavor. The New Gods, Black Canary, Green Arrow (although that Supermax Goyer thing sounds very kickass)just wouldn't do it. Using the mainstays I mentioned earlier is really the only surefire way to go but you simply can't ignore the better aspects of the DC universe, namely CRISIS, or something similar. The Justice League animated show had an episode where they had to fight their dark counterparts, the Superman animated had a kick ass show where Lois Lane gets teleported to a world where she's dead and Supes goes off the deep end, and Alternate Batman is definitely interesting, especially after watching The Dark Knight. If you want to make all the characters brooding and dark, you have to do it like that. Metropolis is not a dark place. The Flash does not fucking brood, nor does Clark Kent nor does anyone want them to. IT ONLY WORKS FOR BATMAN. Just trust me on all of this. If you can assemble a Crisis movie that sums up all of the story and gives the fans a good taste of the DC universe before Marvel comes out with the Avengers everyone involved in that project would have solidified a sound foothold in the industry FOREVERMORE (think Lucas with Star Wars).

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:38 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    Amen. Let's see, you have a guy who runs really, really fast. A guy with a magic ring and an Amazonian Goddess or some shit. Most D.C. characters just suck.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman

    by Gunslinger1919

    Hardcore porno. You know it's the way to go. It's the only way to go. And we all want to see it. So let's try and get this thing moving.... --G

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST

    A dark Green Lantern film

    by Thenedain

    ...could actually work. But only in a movie based around Emerald Twilight / New Dawn. A brooding, insane Hal Jordan destroying Oa leading to Kyle Rayner getting the last power ring would be a perfect dark film. Problem is, to do it right requires waaaay too much set-up than the idiots at WB seem to be able to do. Ideally, you'd have to have at least 1 or 2 GL movies just introducing Hal Jordan, then you'd have to have a Death/Return of Superman film showing the destruction of Coast City. As awesome as all that could be, it'll never, ever happen. Instead, we'll get a goth/angsty wrist cutting mega-gangsta John Stewart and a fucking goofy guitar playing Guy Gardner played by Jack Black. And people wonder why Marvel's more popular.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Women Characters

    by Sacredfun

    I think it could work for a female actioner lead (and I still wonder about Joss Whedon's treatment of Wonder Woman). I think Wonder Woman could work if it was perfectly cast and really let her be the #2 shitkicker in DC universe that she is. I say keep threads of her past throughout, but have her tackle some kind of massive global or maybe even intergalactic threat that tests every ounce of her strength and force of will. I think people would respond.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:43 p.m. CST


    by namasteandgoodluck

    Fucking stupid touchpad deleted a good portion of that post. And to clarify my first statement DC's 5 corporate mainstays are as compelling as Marvels...thats about it though. I've read years of both companies works and DC had some serious bullshit printed. But whoever came up with that Kingdom Come comment...EXACTLY. That story was THE SHIT!!!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:44 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    Does sound good. I'm surprised that any of those dumb fucking execs allowed anyone to have an original thought like that. That's not saying it will be good, just original.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Obama chose a VP!

    by PirateEmery

    It's Al Gore! OMG!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Martian Manhunter would own your nancy-boy asses!

    by Uncle Stan

    He's creepy and kooky. An amalgam of The Batman and Superman. Done right, this movie will fuck your mind.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:44 p.m. CST

    The only good things WB has done....

    by Gunslinger1919 stay out of Zach Snyder's business. Watchmen may be good. It may be bad. But at least it's Snyder's. --G

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:46 p.m. CST

    My girl has Wonder Woman boots

    by namasteandgoodluck

    ...and an amazing body. I highly recommend that if you have a hot gf, get her to put on the WW outfit. I always get most of the fit ripped off her but I always leave the boots on.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Hurry up and get The Flash going!!!

    by flimz E

    There was some talk a while back about Ryan Reynolds playing Wally West (aka The Flash) and I say: MAKE THIS MOVIE BEFORE HE GETS TOO OLD! He has the look and he can definitely pull off the comedy that the character demands. Plus, The Flash can do a lot more than just move quickly. This is an opportunity to delve into some serious eye candy. With Reynolds as the leading man, the script practically writes itself. So, what's the hold up?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Martian Cockhunter

    by namasteandgoodluck

    Look at that fucking outfit. It's straight from the Folsom street fair.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:49 p.m. CST

    Leaving the boots on....

    by Gunslinger1919

    ...ingenious...tho I think I'd go the Frank Miller route and have her hog of the only good things Miller ever came up with... --G

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:49 p.m. CST

    The Dark Knight Returns

    by namasteandgoodluck

    They should just get it over with. You know it's coming.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:49 p.m. CST

    @ namasteandgoodluck

    by Thenedain

    Agreed totally. The problem is that WB can't see past their own shoes. The other problem is that the studio will undoubtably go out of their way to meddle with any DC movie that gets made that's NOT headed by Nolan. That's where the Doom of DC comes in. I'm still not sure why WB just doesn't get the guys most familiar with DC characters to help write the screenplays. I mean, they're all under one roof, why wouldn't you? DC's loaded with talented writers, a few of which actually do work on scripts and such. The things WB does when it comes to DC properties really boggles the mind sometimes. I often have to wonder what kind of crazy miracle occured to make the Dini/Timm animated universe so awesome. Considering WB's track history, you'd think it should have tanked.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Speaking of dark and knights...

    by Kizeesh

    Am I the only one who thinks that for Chris Nolan to successfully do a third batman movie and include the Riddler, he'll more or less have to remake Se7en?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Folsom Street Fair

    by Gunslinger1919

    Sorry...unfamiliar...please explain.... --G

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:51 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    We want to see a picture.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:52 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    I totally agree. Wasn't Mr. Reese supposed to be him anyway?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Problem with most DC characters

    by Heckles

    With the exception of Superman and Batman, DC characters were mostly one trick ponys or derivative from a Marvel property. Run fast, power ring, lasso, wings, live underwater, etc. At least Marvel took their single idea super heros back in the day and made them a team (Fantastic 4).

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Is it that hard to read a few comic books?

    by CherryValance

    I didn't read them as a kid, but as I've enjoyed the movies so much I try to pick one up now and again. It's not so hard. They have them at the library. So if these executives are going to make huge monetary decisions about them I think they could try reading one, maybe on a plane ride or something. :)

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:56 p.m. CST


    by Gunslinger1919

    Al Gore???!!! Holy shit! Who'd have guessed. Tho I'm not surprised by anything anymore since seeing that footage of McCain running Martin Sheen's monologue from the DEAD ZONE...PUT YOUR FUCKING HAND ON THE SCANNER OR I'LL LOP IT OFF AND PUT IT ON FOR YOU! --G

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:57 p.m. CST

    I don't agree 100%

    by veritasses

    Staying true to the material is always a bonus. But that by itself has no influence on whether or not the movie will be good or bad. Having a great villain doesn't guarantee anything either. It's really much more basic than that (so maybe Harry implied it or meant it as a given) but a good superhero movie is really just about having a talented creative team (most importantly the writer and director) who "understand" hero themed movies and for studios to know enough to give them support and leave them alone. I guess it really just boils down to immensely talented storytellers who understand the hero myth/arc/story who can execute on their vision and there __really__ aren't many of those around Hollywood... though even under the best conditions, it's still damn hard making a great film. I have no doubt that a "dark" Superman can be made that's every bit as good as TDK or Spiderman with the right creative team under the right circumstances. It's got to start with an awesome, @ss-kicking script though. Finding one of those is probably the hardest step.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Can't wait for Superman's own...

    by Banzai Rootskibango

    ...revenge jazz dance sequence just like the one in Spiderman 3 which I KNOW all of us Spidey fans were just dying to watch! <P> Then Superman can be even darker by walking down the street like a black person while assaulting attractive women with his Joey Gladstone finger flirting.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 6:59 p.m. CST

    @ Heckles

    by Thenedain

    The last few years have actually made the DC Universe a bit more distinguishable the Marvel U, and has brought some serious character building to most of the big guns. The arc Batman went through from 2000 to Infinite Crisis/One Year Later was awesome. The whole One Year Later concept worked wonders: take the big mainstays, bring them back to their quintessential roots and get engaging stories centered around them. It's why Green Lantern went from being the redheaded stepchild of DC during the 90s to being one of it's biggest tent poles today. WB and DC would be well advised to look more towards the most recent stories for movie ideas rather than the older stories that really did make them all very sucky. Even Superman was a stale, unwritable character for the longest time. How do you make stories about a guy who can do nearly anything and can't be hurt interesting? While not falling back on kryptonite? I still say a Hawkman movie could be damned awesome if done right. It'll never happen, but one can dream.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:01 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    What footage of McCain are you talking about?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Dark Knight Follow-up Spoiler

    by Harry Pairatestes

    The Mayor has an integral role in the next film as Captain Mascara. He will battle Batman with his powerful eyelashes that are engulfed with eye makeup through all of the Dark Knight.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Harry May Be Right...

    by C.K. Lamoo

    But it too late to go back now. The next time Lex appears, he'll be waaring clown white. We all voted with our wallets.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Dark Superman = Absolute Fucking Disaster

    by Geekgasm

    This has literally ruined my day. What an IDIOTIC SACK OF FUCKING MONKEY SHIT this moronic WB suit is. Way to take an enormous success and learn ABSOLUTELY THE OPPOSITE LESSON from it. And as for Superman (and I fucking loved Superman Returns, you adolescent homophobic pigfucking haters), making a "dark Superman" movie would be like seeing the Ang Lee Hulk and deciding to reboot it as a teen sex comedy. It makes as much sense. ABSOLUTE FUCKING DISASTER. ABSOLUTE FUCKING DISASTER. ABSOLUTE FUCKING DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:12 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    What the fuck does homophobic have to do with it?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:14 p.m. CST

    reboot superman

    by stickmangrit

    and give us Lex. not Gene Hackman, and not Spacey impersonating Gene Hackman, but Lex God Damned Luthor. and in all honesty, i can totally see a bald Clancy Brown pulling that role off in spades. disagree? go watch Carnivale and come back. people were bitching that nobody could top Nicholson In Clown Makeup, but that shit came to an abrupt halt the second they got to see the real Joker on-screen. the same can be done with Luthor.<br> <br> here's how you do it, follow the formula that Iron Man and Nolan-Batman have used to such great success:Step 1) start with Luthor, he's a great villain and utterly integral to the mythos. he's not a super-criminal, and under no circumstances should he have anything resembling an "epic showdown" with Supes. he's the hand guiding events from behind the scenes, and you HAVE to start with him if you're going to do a full reboot. pair him with Brainiac following Kal-El from Krypton. hell, HAVE BRAINIAC BLOW UP KRYPTON. have him hack his way into Supes' ship, and lay dormant until modern tech can catch up with him. then have him use Luthor as the means to emerge. gives us both an intellectual and physical challenge for Supes to overcome. most importantly, you need to build empathy and goodwill for the franchise. make supes matter again, which leads us to step 2:<br> <br> Death of Superman. biggest goddamned fistfight in the history of comics, and bring in the GL corps or some group of super-soldiers from Luthor as backup.<br> <br> Part 3: Funeral/Reign. might have to be two movies, but then you have two new franchises, two great stories, and a solid trilogy/quadrillogy on your hands. MAKE IT FUCKING HAPPEN.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:16 p.m. CST

    RE: DAMAGE Back when SR 1st came out

    by Phategod2

    Alot of people attacked Singer's Sexual orientation, and many still do. But I also senjoyed SR but I do recognize it's flaws.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:19 p.m. CST


    by Geekgasm

    Pretty obvious, wasn't it?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Fuck Lex Luthor too.

    by Damage_Inc

    How many different versions of that bald headed faggot do we need? I even heard he will be in Supermax. Fuck that character.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:29 p.m. CST


    by Damage_Inc

    Yeah, that's exactly what they said about Singer and SR.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:29 p.m. CST


    by ragingdrunklove

    TDK didn't work because it was brooding, it worked because Nolan has a huge amount of respect for the character and the source material, and put it to good use. Brooding is inherent in Batman, it wasn't just plopped in for Nolan's films. I agree with you, Harry, is what I'm saying. A brooding Superman would be stupid as shit. We already have two fantastic Batman films (hopefully a third in a few years) for that style of superhero, try something new. Just because Batman made boatloads doesn't mean it will work for every hero. Remember, WB, TDK made boatloads because it was a GOOD MOVIE HOLY SHIT WHAT?!?!?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:33 p.m. CST

    "Dark" Superman = epic failure

    by Aranthrael

    Once again the suits over at Warner Brothers have proven they know jack about what to do with their superhero properties. The whole "dark" Superman bullet has already been dodged once before (Tim Burton's failed attempt in the late 1990's) and with any luck the Superman franchise can dodge it again this time around. (And does anyone remember evil Superman from Superman III? Yuck.) When will Hollywood learn that you just can't do a dark, evil, brooding Superman; those very sentiments are the complete opposite of the character. Who wants to see a sulking Superman anyway? Why is Hollywood dedicated to giving us some guy in a cape sitting on top of the Daily Planet building crying about his love life, when he should be out saving the day? What would Superman have to be sad or mopey about, really? Would he really have problems with getting a date? This is Superman for chrissakes; he is like Elvis Presley with superpowers. Would he really have issues with being an alien in a world he never made? No, cause that is Howard the Duck's schtick. If anything, Superman could only be bummed about not being able to do MORE for his adopted planet but wouldn't that just drive him to do MORE? Why can't DC take a page from the better Superman stories (Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorrow?, Superman For All Seasons, Grant Morrison's All Star run, hell, even Alan Moore's run on Supreme) and develop a script from there? Geezus, why does Warner Bros hate all the things about Superman that people love about the character? I have no answers folks, just questions.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Simply raise the stakes, keep threat real

    by lastboyonearth

    Superman must not lose his noble character, but the threat can be grim and realistic, just not dark for the sake of dark.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:43 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern

    by cyberskunk

    I'd be interested in a science fiction and serious Green Lantern with Hal Jordan. <p> I would also be interested to know what happened with the Steve Lisberger interview that was supposed to happen on a weekend.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:46 p.m. CST

    Um, they DONT get it, at all...

    by WhinyNegativeBitch

    ...I'm not even a comic book fan, but fuck me, a dark, brooding, realistic Superman? Just stick to the fucking source material. Its actually easier than hiring some losers like Singer or Burton to come in and fuck it up. If they want proof of how it works, just look at the two highest grossing films of the fucking year, Iron Man and their own Batman. They just stuck to what the fucking material was originally, and made the best movie they could from that material. Voila, massive hit. I can't believe someone could be a top executive and be so fucking dumb.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:48 p.m. CST

    Of course...

    by WhinyNegativeBitch

    ...You do need to make it more realistic for it to work with real people up on the big screen, but you simply choose the more realistic elements and treatments from the back catalouge. Like fucking Batman. No, seriously, how fucking stupid can one man be?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:51 p.m. CST

    And by best movie they could...

    by WhinyNegativeBitch

    ...Thats not an inditication that you hire people like Singer or Ratner and let them do the best they can. It means you hire guys like Nolan who give a shit and have talent, and get behind them one hundred per cent and yeah, treat the fucking property like its the Godfather. Good enough for a Funny Book film isn't the right mentallity. It's got to be treated like your making something great. No, seriously, how fucking dumb is this human being?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:52 p.m. CST


    by Veraxus

    That's all I need to say. Very well put, Harry.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:58 p.m. CST

    What a bunch of buffoons

    by -888

    I don't even know why I'm posting; everyone seems to be in agreement here and the article/post itself is dead-on. <p>Treat the characters with respect, give 'em a sense of grandeur, and make the movie as well as you can. That's all there is to it. The hero characters that have lasted (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Iron Man, etc etc etc) have done so because they happened to be constructed well from the ground up. When you adhere to their basic construction, the movies work. When you don't, they bomb.<p>Superman Returns sucked not because it wasn't dark enough. It sucked because that wasn't Superman. Superman's not some miserable, indecisive twerp who winds up in the hospital. <p>Get Patrick Warburton to play Superman and stick to the elemental core of the character. Ya gotta break the myth down and figure out what makes it work. Then execute. It ain't rocket science.<p>Actually, TDK failed in my mind because it presented Batman as being an indecisive bitch. Spider-Man's indecisive. That's his weakness and it works fine given the fact that Peter Parker is a nerdy teenager. Tony Stark's shortcomings were pretty well-represented in the Iron Man movie. Good work, Favreau. Good work, Downey, jr. Good work, Marvel. Batman's shortcoming is that he's TOO sure of himself. That makes him frighening. TDK woulda been way better if they'd gotten that right. Superman's weakness is a naive overconfidence in the American Dream, and in order -- that's what he represents, for better and for worse. Ay yi yi yi yi yi.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 7:59 p.m. CST


    by Maniaq

    seriously, how many films have we seen that are either direct or indirect ripoffs of this seminal piece of fiction? <p> that includes some of these comic books they want to make into films, too, btw...

  • Darkseid is like chocolate, it makes everything better.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:07 p.m. CST

    I'm ok with this article 'xcept for 1 line...

    by ColloquiallyBorn

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:14 p.m. CST


    by Banzai Rootskibango

    DC < Marvel <P> Star Wars > Star Trek <P> Werewolves > Vampires <P> Classic Disney < Pixar <P> Classic monsters < slasher horror <P> Playboy < Penthouse <P> Godzilla > King Kong <P> Apocalypse Now > The Deerhunter <P> Playstation > X Box <P> Emo < Metal <P> Beatles > the Stones <P> AICN > CHUD <P> Sharks > Crocodiles <P> Big cats > bears <P> Tits > ass <P> Sci Fi > creature features <P> Stephen King > Dean Koontz <P> Pepsi > Coke <P> Lake monsters > Bigfoot <P> Speilberg > Cameron > Lucas <P> That's the kind of geek I am.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:22 p.m. CST


    by MacGruber

    Spiderman becomes dark in the Venom story and then he becomes good ol' spidey don't seem to be familiar with that.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:24 p.m. CST

    Banzai Rootskibango

    by Phategod2

    DC < Marvel Star Wars > Star Trek Werewolves < Vampires Classic Disney < Pixar Classic monsters < slasher horror King < Black Mens Magazine Godzilla > King Kong Apocalypse Now = The Deerhunter Playstation < X Box Emo < Metal Beatles < the Stones AICN > CHUD Sharks > Crocodiles Big cats > bears Tits < ass Sci Fi > creature features Stephen King > Dean Koontz Pepsi < Coke Lake monsters > Bigfoot Speilberg < Cameron > Lucas thats my take

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:25 p.m. CST

    I'm ok with this article 'xcept for 1 line...

    by ColloquiallyBorn

    "But when they tried to make his character DARK & BROODING in the last film - fans rejected it. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT SPIDER-MAN."<p>Sorry, but that's not why we didn't like the third Spidey movie... I guess you didn't get that either... Not being mean, just want to point out why...<p>Ok, 3rd Spidey movie was not good because Raimi got pressured to put in Venom. He wanted Sandman. Presonnaly the movie was great up until the whole Venom stroyline came to be. I mean the dancing and singing got everybody in the Theater going "WTF!?!?!" ok to put in some funny skits in Spidey, but the dark Peter going all Saturday Night on us in the streets, and then the whole scene at MJ's work place was just ridiculous. Raimi boomed on that one.<p>Then you have Harry going nuts and after Peter, you get a great storyline for the Sandman to come in and just to complicate the whole issue, hell Venom comes in. <p>They lost us when they tried putting in to many vilains in one movie for the whole movie, oh and let's not forget the Academy Award winning performance of Gwen Stacey, my god... Anyone wants to buy her an acting coach? I mean Ron Howard's girl? Damn, ask your dad for some tips! Maybe I'm being harsh, maybe it was the whole character who was built wrong (and let's face it way to late to introduce in the third movie!), maybe they also rushed this character for no freaking reason again just like the rest.. <p>What I like about Batman 2 was that we get Scarecrow, but for a whole 5 minutes. And then that's it, he goes back to the Asylum and we know Batman continues to do his job. Of course Raimi can't do that 'cause he kills all the freaking bad guys in the first two movies, way to go... <p>What Raimi should've done is stand is ground , take the buy-out from Marvel/Sony and say "Later!". Tobey and the rest would've followed him which would've prompted a fan uproar and brought him back to do the third movie has he wanted. Sandman all the way.<p>So as far as I know and saw on many posts, people didn't hate the movie because Spidey went dark, no those scenes were the good ones (excludind the dancing and prancing mentionned above) but just not for this one. The whole Venom thing should've happened as a stand-alone movie, no other villains, no dancing, no rushing to get thru the next scene. How 'bout he would've finished the third movie with Spidey battling it out with Sandman, wins.. Cut outand back, we see him going to this meteorite that he saw crashed (always like the whoel Secret Wars origin better!), he goes in, gets to close.. Venom jumps at him.. BLacks out.. Waked up hanging upside down (as in the movie) with the black outfit on.. "Wo! What is this?!" End movie! <p>THis would've set up the next movie, fans would've freaked out about not seeing more, and would've just foamed at the mouth until Spidey 4 came out... Anyway, my two cents!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:30 p.m. CST

    At this point, it's S.O.P.

    by CACross2

    Well said. It seems to me that this is how these guys (movie execs) think: "It worked once, so it'll work over and over and over. We just need to add some little tweaks." It kind of saddens me. As much as I love seeing comics brought to life, I hate seeing it done badly. And there's a little voice inside me that just knows that there are some phenomenal scripts floating around out there that won't get made.....because everyone in charge is waiting for the next guy in spandex and a cape. I'm really not all that surprised. We've seen it happen before....involving the dark knight franchise, no less. Remember when Jack Nicholson took his wonderful crack at the Joker. Good job. Now that's how it's done. So what do we get next? Danny DeVito dressed as the Penguin and playing the Joker. Tommy Lee Jones dressed as Two-Face doing his take on the Joker. Jim Carrey and Arnold Schwarzenegger doing dark and over the top. (And Bane in a monkey suit...but I won't go there.) What worked for the Joker, worked because he was the Joker. But what studio execs got from that is that dark and wacky works. These guys don't seem to be the brightest bulbs in the pack. I'm telling you: We are only a few steps shy from seeing a dark and brooding Plastic Man. With Woozy Winks as his butler.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Preach it!

    by buffywrestling

    Work that magic, Harry. They need to hear it. Lucas has become blind, deaf & dumb. Don't let it happen to other franchises. Remove the scales from their eyes.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:35 p.m. CST

    woo hoo...

    by bowtiehoon

    Yes!!!no more fucken kid superman... I swear, if they reboot superman to make a dark superman where they have Superman raping Lois (just to be dark), her getting pregnant and poping out another super kid (so the kiddies can relate)...i'm giving up on the

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:39 p.m. CST


    by TroutMaskReplicant

    Yeah cause that worked for Richard Donner, Tim Burton and Bryan Singer. At least you can say with the next Batman movie, if Nolan is kicked to the curb, the rabid fans who threatened to kill critics that gave TDK bad reviews might actually take WB executives to task in the worst way possible. I might wonder if Sony held up X-Men 3 as an example to Raimi, when he disagreed with them, and soured his feelings for his own film. Imagine coming in to work every morning feeling like a corporate shill. That can't do wonders for your creative instincts.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:41 p.m. CST

    They need to make us CARE about the characters

    by BobParr

    The first SPIDERMAN and IRON MAN had mediocre villians but they made you care about Peter Parker and Tony Stark so the films worked. TDK had a geat villian that made you care about him being stopped. I personally didn't care if it was Batman, Gordon, or Dent that stopped the Joker. Donner's SUPERMAN worked because Christopher Reeve was a perfect Superman/Clark Kent and you caqred about them. It isn't about tone.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 8:49 p.m. CST

    I'm writing a Superman script...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...and it is really, really good. It is both dark, fast, and filled with "Iron Man"-like fun. It covers the origin again...sort of (it begins in the past). Who do I send it to?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:10 p.m. CST

    I would love a Green Lantern film where they introduced...

    by rbatty024

    all of the crazy ass space stuff of the DC Universe. There has yet to be a superhero film to truly take advantage of the full galaxy. Even the Fantastic Four films were disappointingly terrestrial. I could use some Jack Kirby Fourth World wackyness, if they figured out how to translate it to the screen.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Cut Jeff Robinov some slack....

    by Action Hero

    After all, he produced "On Deadly Ground" with Seagal. Hollywood is creatively bankrupt because of idiots like this in charge.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Hollywood has forgotten how to do "Good Guys"

    by Dreamfasting

    As much as I enjoyed Batman, I'm feeling about ready for some more uplifting stories again. Superheroes struggle with so many flaws ... and when they don't have many flaws, the story instead focuses on the villains. It's one thing for a hero to overcome their demons ... but when I think "superhero", I think of a character who never gives you reason to doubt their ideals. For once give me a superhero without demons, without a nemesis. Give me a Superman without Luther, without Kryptonite, able to leap tall buildings but not lift continents. Let him simply looking at this alien world with infinite compassion and patience, just trying to live peacefully amongst us, just trying to help.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Ok...let there be rock!

    by Powerring

    The flash: need to allow him to show his stuff against any number/combination of his worst enemies. A movie showing his real abilities would be like a movie about the God of speed. Superman: knock down, drag out, city-flattening battle with doomsday, or darksied and his minions of apokalipse Green lantern: a more accessible silver surfer. A fearless war hero that will kill only to survive and has a casual omnipotence. He needs to have a planet-decimating battle with sinestro. The possibilities are as limitless as imagination, and a movie budget. GL's time to be on the big screen is nigh. Wonder woman: what more do you need than a hot athletic babe in a tiara woopin ass? Men and lesbians everywhere could be enthralled by someone who could make Xena her bitch. (literally and figuratively.)

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:21 p.m. CST

    ~~~Studio Bosses Just Wanna Fuck Hot Chicks~~~

    by The Marquis de Side 3

    that's THEIR bottom line... their Ralph Lauren custom power suit slacks around their ankles and whatever form of powderized narcotics their can snort to the big time. Fuck superheroes, fuck audiences, fuck the "artist's vision", even fuck the guy who believes you CAN tell great stories AND make money too, like Chris Nolan... <br> <br> fuck 'em, <br> fuck 'em <br> fuck 'em <br> up the ass <br> in the vagina <br> through your heart <br> and into your brain... <br> cuz whenever a studio boss gets an idea, it's ka-ching ka-ching ka-ching and the next moment your hopes and dreams are at the rape crisis clinic... <br> whatever WB says about taking care of their characters, I'd take it with a grain of salt. because WB has, is and always will be run by a bunch of yuppies who've never dreamed, never seen beyong their yachts, and never EVER will take care of their creative properties. Marvel Studios is doing well so far... here's hoping they dont' become corrupt like other studios... <br> and as for the Watchmen fiasco, I'm pretty sure WB brought in upon themselves, not only for ignoring the due diligence, but also because someone up above in the food chain at WB is a real jerk which is why whenever that CA judge can side with another studio (even if they're inscrupluous also) to jab at WB, you betcha they will... <br> <br>

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Exactly how would the world react realistically-

    by samurai sark

    -to Superman. Presumably some terrible disaster would be taking place; a shuttle crash, or a hurricane. People are in danger and there is no one to help. Then a mysterious figure appears, doing unbelievable things.<br><br> Of course people would think it was a hoax, some trick from a special effects artist; like a fake UFO video. But then he appears again, and again. <br><br> Then what? Panic? Would people freak out? Declare some kind of martial law until the mystery is solved? <br><br>Then he is revealed to be an orphaned alien, who crash landed on our planet and wants to help us. How many people would really believe this?<br><br> The United States would be after him immediately. They might even hire a wealthy industrialist like Luthor to help. If they don't capture him, the Russians might, or the Chinese.<br><br> What if the alien is lying, and his appearance is the sign of an invasion? What if he has some kind of disease that could infect the planet? What if he's a God? The pressure would be enormous.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Why don't they add the giant fucking spider while there at it

    by evilkyle

    because i just have this feeling that the executives at wb would ruin the character of superman by making him dark, which isn't his character, just make him fight a giant spider instead

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:34 p.m. CST

    Has anyone heard something about the Super Max film?

    by rbatty024

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:36 p.m. CST

    I wonder if Kal-El would accidentaly kill

    by samurai sark

    if they took the character seriously, then a child of 16 with enormous strength must have some accidents, even if he was saving someone. Guilt of that magnitude would no doubt encourage his oath to protect mankind.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Ma Kent made the Superman suit right?

    by samurai sark

    From Kal-El's blankets?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Someone please make a Next Wave movie.

    by Amy Chasing

    Or anything by Warren Ellis. Just not dark-and-brooding(TM) please.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:44 p.m. CST

    I thought Smallville was supposed a be a

    by Phategod2

    Realistic albeit annoying take on Superman.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern is my first choice...

    by zinc_chameleon

    followed by the Flash. Why? Because their superpowers can be used wrongly, inadvertently, out-of-context, etc. And then the character arc emerges from their attempts to set things right, while their villains prefer a fallible super-hero. Superman is just too perfect for our Greek-tragedy-style modern superhero.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Fuck Smallville and

    by anyrandomhero

    Fuck Tom Welling...i'm all for a dark superman film in the sense that the villain has a sick rampage and that they dont change the basic characteristics of Superman. I honestly liked Returns the only thing wrong with it was that it never felt like any character was in real danger.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Moody depressed Superman was SReturns

    by Rufferto

    Superman 3 was bad because it took a comical disrespectful tone. It was written as a comedy. It also sucked because of the villains. But evil Superman had some great scenes. When he beat up Clark for one. Although, I haven't seen it in ages. I'm just saying from what I remember. It wasn't really disrespectful to the character because he wasn't himself. Spider-Man 3 sucks for a ton of reasons but all the problems were seeded in the first two only amplified. Spider-man was hardly in it compared to him as Peter trying to get Mary Jane to marry him and all that booh hooh. Look. It was just a horrible script with awful dialog and convenient plots falling from the sky, literally. Spider-man can be some what moody when he's racked with guilt. That in itself doesn't ruin it. It was a combo of things.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Total lack of interest in Superman

    by tbransonlives

    Haven't read the rest of the tb, but am I only one who feels this way? Maybe he's a hero for a different era or maybe it's just that the last movie wasn't great. Anyway, total lack of interest needs a complete reset.<p> And it's probably been pointed out before, but isn't it funny how everybody lost on Singer directing Superman? WB's got a franchise they were trying to restart in limbo, Fox's X-Men is pretty much worthless now after a decent start, and we the fans, well we just got horrible product in the end.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Who gives a fuck about D.C. characters anymore?

    by ZeroCorpse

    They're whored out left and right, and the only medium that has any respect for them outside the comics is the Dini-verse. Everything else just shits on them over and over. <p> I was not one of those people who thought TDK was the best film ever. It was good. Excellent, even. But it was WRONG on so many counts, and the first problem is that it was a Batman movie with about 15 minutes of Batman, who gets less than 1/4 of the lines in the movie. He was relegated to being a background character. BATMAN is not what made TDK a hit-- The Joker (a skewed version of him, no less) was the real ticket-seller. <p> I bet you could edit all Batman's scenes out of TDK and it would feel about the same. <p> Superman Returns was HORRIBLE. He lifts stuff, stalks Lois, acts completely wrong, and faces a "genius" villain whose whole plot is just fucking STUPID. On top of that, Superman looks like a member of a boy band. <p> Superman should be an older, authoritarian, square-jawed MAN. He should look at least 35 years old. Looking 40 wouldn't be a problem, though. <p> A twenty-something Superman is not commanding. He's not The Man Of Steel, but the lad of aluminium. <p> But back to my original point: D.C. and WB have whored out the D.C. comics characters to an incredible degree, allowing them to be watered down each time. Smallville sucks, and completely ignores D.C. history. Mortal Kombat vs. D.C. just reeks of stupidity. And need I remind you all that not too long before TDK and BB, there was Batman & Robin and two really lame non-Dini versions of the Batman in animation. <p> I think Timm & Dini are the only people in the world of moving pictures that 'get' the D.C. characters and treat them with the respect they deserve. Everyone else just splashes shitty versions of The Superfriends out there.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 9:59 p.m. CST

    I think Green Lantern has a lot of potential

    by Rufferto

    if it was as carefully respectful to the source material as Iron Man was and also if the Green Lantern is Hal Jordan there is a lot of potential. It's all very Star Warsish. The GL corp have always reminded me of Jedi. The idea that it has never been adapted for the play it safe Superman Batman movies always baffled me. WB i don't believe the WB knows what to do with the DC universe characters. Part of me doesn't blame them and I was sorta glad there was more restraint on it then Marvel has. I mean Marvel is making a friggin Ant man movie! And yeah, i don't think they should make a Wonder woman movie either.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Here's a novel idea.

    by Stan Grossman

    How about an original movie. Im fed the fuck up with comic flicks. For every dark knight there's thirty daredevils. And I knew this would happen after DK's sucess. What these jackoffs dont realize is that it was'nt because the movie was "dark and brooding". it was in fact because the property was taken SERIOUSLY. Picture this, Supermans a heroin addict and cuts himself to feel.....something. All of which is set to a bright eyes score and directed by gus van sant. anyways, Original ideas please. does anyone really want a green lantern movie or wonder woman. give me a break. Not every comic needs a movie. All these people give a shit about is that built in audience money.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:18 p.m. CST

    This talkback..

    by Laughing Irishman

    needs some black boxes.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Why didn't they reboot X-men and Spiderman

    by Phategod2

    In my opinion both those movies were lackluster but they gave them a oppertunity to do better with the sequels WB is overreacting. it's there own fault for giving singer too much money and free reign. I say give Singer and Routh another chance.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:25 p.m. CST


    by BizarroJerry

    He doesn't have to be "darker" and more "realistic". Just have him PUNCH SOMEBODY. And Singer's version of darker just gave us a sad sack Superman. How about someone who likes to fly and stop bad guys?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:27 p.m. CST

    they just need good creator/directors+good comic writers

    by pipergates

    A director with vision, like Nolan, working together with the best brains of the comic industry, people who actually knows and understands which are the most spectacular possibilities of these characters. Would be smart to get a visionary like Grant Morrison involved, but maybe he should be restrained with the participation of some DC old-timer. Its amazing they cant come up with something that works, they could be making so much cash. I do like the idea of taking a more serious tone, the audience is getting a lot more sophisticated, finally. But yeah it doesn't necessarily have to be gritty.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Please stay with me here...

    by BizarroJerry

    But this is the kind of thinking Disney had a few years back. After seeing Pixar films performing much better than their 2D animated movies, they thought, "Oh, people want computer animation. That's why no one saw our movie. Cancel all 2D animation." Their executive brains failed to consider that maybe the quality of the film and not the format was the problem!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Amen Harry

    by XoanonTORN

    'nuff said

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST

    I Have A Script Along The Lines Of Supe Max

    by Media Messiah

    It's an original idea and was authored years before Super Max, but is truly brilliant. The story does something very, very interesting...but I'm not in the position to reveal it on the net as there are too many rip-offs going on these days.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST

    Amended: I Have A Script Along The Lines Of Super Max

    by Media Messiah

    It's an original idea and was authored years before Super Max, but is truly brilliant. The story does something very, very interesting...but I'm not in the position to reveal it on the net as there are too many rip-offs going on these days.<BR><BR>If anybody at Warner Brothers is game, I'd like to pitch it to you. You won't be disappointed!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST


    by chrth

    Wow, Harry just gained several hundred points of geek credit in my mind. Well done!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:44 p.m. CST

    "Someone please make a Next Wave movie."

    by chrth

    Fucking right, Amy C. Fucking right.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:45 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    I daresay that director does not exist in today's dojo. Someday that director will arise, but until that time, just give me a really awesome 100% CGI Justice League movie. Thank you WB.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:46 p.m. CST


    by uberman

    Thanks for taking the geek challenge! Without even meeting you, I think I could predict the flicks you'd like by your answers. We agree on some, not so much on others. Cheers.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:56 p.m. CST

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Good. <P> Hi Shia.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 10:59 p.m. CST

    How long ago

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Was 'Catwoman'? Not very. Fucking idiots. I hate you WB. I fucking hate you. No one owes you anything. You owe us. Rat bastards.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:01 p.m. CST


    by alice 13

    because kent's eyeglasses cant work in a realistic version.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Harry gets one right

    by INWOsuxRED

    Iron Man was a sucess at being fairly light and colorful. Same with the first two Spider-Man films. Hulk, Ghost Rider and Daredevil were much darker and much less successful. One film does not a pattern make.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Superman Returns wasn't "dark"?

    by nyj_et

    If not, it certainly was bleak. I saw it on opening night and found myself trying to like it, just like after watching "The Phantom Menace". There were a few moments that worked for me. His rescue of the spaceplane and public return. The Prometheus speech Luthor gives to the horrible Kitty Kowalski (I couldn't tell who was worse, the character or the actress playing her-she's just plain terrible. The fact that he was gone for five years and in that time, his illegitimate son was born to the woman he loves. Everybody hated on that, but it was original, and that kind of take on these characters is what we constantly ask for. Here's what didn't work. The Prometheus speech aside, Spacey channeled Hackman the same way Carrey channeled Gorshin. I was completely looking forward to seeing Lex Luthor by way of Keyser Soze and feel completely ripped-off. The retread of the "Land-grab" plot from thirty years ago. Kitty Kowalski, again and I can't stress this enough, terrible. I loved the situation Clark is put in. Lois is with a decent guy (who's been doing a great job raising his kid). Clark can't change that just by rescuing her everytime her helicopter, or plane or car or whatever crashes. He can't be a father to his son without acknowleging his paternity, and by doing that could destroy Lois' happy relationship with this guy, and crush this good man in the process. I'm no writer, but it seems that he's just painted into a corner. It's just a mess at the end of the movie and I'd be curious as to know just what the hell they had planned to do with him in what they must have thought was a guaranteed sequel. It starts to become painfully obvious that a "let's worry about that when we get to it part". I'd like to see the most of the actors return (sorry, Ms. Posey), and I'd like to see Lex have a legit public persona, pulling the puppets' strings from the top of LexCorp tower. Have Clark move on. Maybe have him date Wonder Woman or Maxima and see what Lois thinks of that. Bring on Brainiac or Doomsday (a monster, not a pretty-boy bartender), or Darkseid, or even General Zod. Think of it, a non-powered Zod and his cronies, wandering around without powers all these years, plotting revenge against the son of their jailer. The more I argue against a reboot, the more it seems self-apparent that a reboot is exactly what's in order. Just no origin story. Dosen't everyone know where he comes from by now?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:08 p.m. CST

    George Lucas is a fucking genius.?

    by Phategod2

    (Not feeding the troll)

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:09 p.m. CST

    Have A Good Look At All The Posts Harry

    by C A Iversen

    For once, nearly everyone agrees with you. You need to get your article above and this talkback into the hands of the WB. Seriously! There are many damn good ideas and some pretty accurate assessments of how DC's heroes have been handled so far. Please tell me your gonna try and get all this in front of their faces? They needed to understand this 5 years ago, at least!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:10 p.m. CST

    By the way.....

    by C A Iversen

    I can't believe how well you get all the DC heroes! Most impressive!

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:14 p.m. CST

    We'ren't Steel, Hellblazer and Catwoman kind of dark?

    by C.K. Lamoo

    And we all know how well they went over.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:16 p.m. CST

    I just wanna see a movie of Evan Dorkin's "World's Funniest" one

    by Iblis_mage

    Adapted straight off the page as is. And at least one film of Adam Warren's Dirty Pair manga series.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:17 p.m. CST

    What If Watchmen Is Bigger than TDK?

    by Andre the Frog

    Will DC demand that all their movie heroes be rapists, disinterested Gods, and maniacs?

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:17 p.m. CST

    I do wonder what happens

    by INWOsuxRED

    if they build to these supposedly giant films and then don't deliver? You're going to lose out on most of the directors that built you up to this point, and ride everything on only one. Assuming he has been a part of what got you to the dance, he still may not have the touch for the other characters. Fav may like Iron Man, but what if he doesn't connect with Hulk or Thor? Are all the stars of stand alone pictures going to tolerate being ranked 3rd or less in the team movies, or are you going to be stuck making the film everything built up to as some sort of bizarre retcon? What happens if you drop a few turds into the team? If something like Thor sucks, or even worse if Cap doesn't work, how do you continue on with an Avengers? Worst of all, what happens if you do a New England and have all the stand alones kick all kinds of ass, only to ruin a bunch of franchises by fucking up the team movie? This plan could be fun, but it also has the potential to near totally destroy the comic book film genere with a couple of bad films.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman

    by Rommel Catuncan

    needs open-toed boots and a bare midriff. And Diana Prince should work at Vogue. And she should have a perfume squirter as a weapon.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:35 p.m. CST

    i agree

    by Handcannon

    the biggest problem with singer's superman was the lack of a strong villain. honestly though, i can't see the flash, green lantern or wonder woman working as movies.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Let's see...who did right by the DC Universe?

    by Dingbatty

    Timm, Dini, McDuffie, and the rest of their crew and friends. Let them handle these live-action properties. That's your recipe for success. Heck, even Mark Millar, who often goes the Watchmen "dark side of supers" route, wrote a respectful and exciting Superman for the Superman Adventures cartoon adaptation comic.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:46 p.m. CST

    I'm in total agreement with the trimming of the bush.

    by otm shank

    Particularly on Wonder Woman.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Re Superman reboot

    by codymr

    I'm not convinced that a reboot of the Superman franchise is a great idea. I should preface by saying that overall I thought SR was OK... it was not a masterpiece for sure, but it was a HUGE improvement over parts III & IV and much of the other superhero stuff out there... it was even on par with the mixed bag that was part II. My feeling was that it's a satisfactory bridge to Donner's 1.5 films. That said, I'm not against a reboot - I do acknowledge that Singer's interpretation put off fans of the comics. But, what if the Brother's Warner hire someone like Paul WS Anderson to do the reboot? I'd rather they stick with Singer who has some good work under his belt. I'd give him another chance and see what he is able to pull out of his hat the second time around. Regardless, thank god TDK was well received and has made WB retool their thinking towards their super hero properties.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Compelled to...

    by Pulagatha

    Christ In Fucking Holy Hell, people don't want A dark and brooding Spider-Man? Then what the hell was he when he said in the first movie, "It's not my problem." The problems with Spiderman 3 weren't necessarily him having A darker tone. If he's going to show what A great and kind superhero he is. Spider-Man is going to have to be A little more gritty. James Cameron would have done this right. Especially, with Michael Biehn in the title role like he was supposed to be. It was the terrible Venom they did. It was Gwen Stacy being A model? WTF? It was another tale of how do we get this guy? I know we'll kidnap the girl for the third time. It was Sam Raimi and his "I got to have all my little directorial quirks in this movie." Especially, The God Damn Saturday Night Fever dance sequence they decided to put in there. And as for Superman? If they're going to do A Superman movie and reboot it again. Then lets get something straight right now. There needs to be A good story. Not just A good story. A GREAT STORY. I mean how did they fuck A Superman story to begin with? About an hour too long, him being revived at A hospital, A subplot about him having A kid, and lifting A giant piece of Kryptonite out of the fucking ocean. That's how. I think what's going on with Robinov is he's trying to appeal to these characters having some sort of ground as far as film goes. Because the color scheme in comics and the the color scheme in film is not on the same level. I love the character of Superman. It's not like there isn't potential for him. Christ, the Nietzsche or Hitler ideas surrounding the character would make him great for any story. Those implications are the wealth of the character. Since the idea of trade paperbacks started picking up in the comic book industry I've been much more A fan of Marvel than DC. I'm with Jeff Robinov. Darker is where things need to be. Because if these characters or the environment they are set in were all sunshine and roses there would be no story to tell. It certainly should not be exclusive to the villains. That would be bad story telling. The main problem with the DC characters is the costumes. They're all Golden Age and THIS DOESN'T NOT APPLY TO PHYSICAL REALITY like it does to the colors of A comic book. Let Alone, Superman's costume. His underwear on the outside and what not. Not to mention, finding A suitable replacement for Christoper Reeve. I kind of like them borrowing the idea from Marvel to release each character film separately and then the team venture, but hopefully the brains behind all these things can be A little more productive than this. Honestly, Anybody in charge of these things should be more productive than that.

  • Aug. 22, 2008, 11:58 p.m. CST

    by Rommel Catuncan

    I wouldn't mind seeing Metropolis more messed up. Not necessarily having Superman going into soliloquies about his place in the world, but he should feel helpless in some way, because he means well. There's something about 'Returns' that lacked urgency. I think it was the point where Clark was sitting around having beers with Jimmy, just waiting for something to happen ie. saving Lois again. And then waiting for something to happen again, ie. Lex throwing a stick into the ocean. In between, Supes just flew around thinking about Lois, listening to his dead Dad and then blowing out a housefire and stopping a robbery or two.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:01 a.m. CST

    DC Movies

    by jsm1978

    I've always been more of a Marvel person myself, but wouldn't mind seeing a few DC characters such as Green Lantern given a good big screen treatment.<p> I agree, Green Lantern would almost have to be treated like a space fantasy similar to Star Wars. Maybe a little more grounded in reality, since Hal Jordan is from and protects Earth, but it needs to be on a massively cosmic scale. <p> Wonder Woman would HAVE to have a costume change. I know people complained about the X-men costumes in the movies, and it's debatable whether that worked (though the idea of a team actually matching makes sense). However, WW would have to change. The costume is ridiculous, and any real person wearing it looks silly. I cannot imagine any movie being taken seriously with her in that outfit.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:05 a.m. CST

    I agree about Superman Returns.

    by jsm1978

    The biggest problem was definitely the villain. Luthro as a comedic criminal type just doesn't work anymore, particularly with the excellent portrayals of him in the Superman/Justice League cartoons and Smallville.<p> Oh yeah, and the Superkid was one of the stupidest plot devices... well, ever.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:10 a.m. CST

    by Rommel Catuncan

    I don't think Wonder Woman needs a costume change, just make her costume more practical (eg. it's more like armour.) Once you start doing costume changes, you're messing with the source material. (I know that X-Men changed theirs but I feel it's more important to stay true to the iconography here.)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:18 a.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    In terms of 'dark', Superman was created during the Great Depression and before WWII.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:23 a.m. CST

    "Dark Knight" wasn't just dark

    by Gozu

    It was incredibly well written, directed, and acted. We're talking about a synergy of quality that hasn't been seen since the original "Star Wars" trilogy. The thing that strikes me is this whole "single character" nonsense. "Dark Knight" had like thirty characters running around, all of whom had complete arcs, not to mention the flat characters who still were well-realized. As long as the film is well structured and each character fits into the overall tapestry of the film, there's no reason to not do a "JLA" or "World's Finest" movie. As for tone, well, there are dark "Superman" stories that are great. "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" comes to mind. "All Star Superman" is about Superman fucking dying. However, to arbitrarily say all DC characters are now dark and brooding is stupid. It's weird. It's kind of like we're reliving the early-90's in comic books in terms of tone and quality, this whole grim and gritty bullshit, only now we're talking about $300 million feature films. All that said, I'm glad they're finally moving on from the Big Two.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Warner should talk about rebooting the next Superman reboot...

    by Hellboy

    ....because the next one is obviously gonna crash and burn.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Matter Eater-Lad: The Motion Picture

    by Pop_aristocrat

    And I would argue that Spider-man 3 was rejected by fans because of its bat-shit insane, dancing, goofiness rather than its dark tone. In fact, a consistently dark tone would have been more appropriate for the emotional weight they tried, and failed, to put into that film.<br> <p> However, Harry is right, keep dark heroes dark, and light heroes light. Then again, Kyle Rainer's girlfriend did get cut into pieces and shoved into the fridge... but if you go ALL dark, you end up as a self-parody, also bad.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:30 a.m. CST

    I agree...give Singer a second chance

    by zacdilone

    But don't give him free reign. He had too much power in his "golden boy" status after X2. Set some guidelines, give him some advisers with strong ties to the totality of Supes (not just the Donner films), and I think he could crank out a great Superman film.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:31 a.m. CST

    i put baby in a corner

    by chipps

    my girlfriend got a copy and insisted it go in book case with rest of my dvds. It did. but straight to the corner.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Darkseid Newbie

    by Cobbio

    I had no idea who Darkseid was before Harry's opening, but after reading about him on Wiki, I think Superman battling Darkseid would kick serious ass.<p> From Wikipedia: "Darkseid's goal is to eliminate all free will from the universe and reshape it into his own image. To this end, he seeks to unravel the mysterious Anti-Life Equation, which will give him complete control over the thoughts and emotions of all living beings in the universe. While he has yet to obtain a working copy of the Anti-Life Equation, Darkseid has tried on several other occasions to achieve dominance of the universe through other methods. He has a special interest in Earth, as he believes humans possess collectively within their minds most, if not all, fragments of the Anti-Life Equation. Darkseid intends to probe the minds of every human in order to piece together the Equation. This has caused Darkseid to clash with that of many superheroes of the DC Universe, notably, the Kryptonian Superman. Darkseid works behind-the-scenes, using superpowered minions in his schemes to overthrow Earth."<p> Wow. Among other things, he wants to destroy free will. This is the best fucking Superman opponent I've ever heard of. Maybe Superman himself loses his free will for a time and becomes a minion? Because damn, that's scary to think about.<p> I agree with Harry. Darkseid is who I'd like to see.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:37 a.m. CST


    by Tthenomad

    "I cried when i thought of my dad" Come on you simpletons i love how your all "your right Harry" When him and this site gushed all over "Returns", but now he is like Superman was too dark. Remember Harry said "It was the best comic book movie ever" But he left it off his best of 2006 list. Boy no wonder WB screw up there movies Fan boys are just as bad.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:43 a.m. CST

    Superman Batman

    by Oknight

    The key nobody has realized in Superman Batman dynamic is their secret identities. Clark Kent chooses to be a snoopy reporter-- its his profession, his non-super hobby if you will. Bruce Wayne is a fabulously wealthy sort-of-monk with a life-long vocation to stop crime. Kent must find Wayne the most fascinating SOB he ever met. Wayne is INCREDIBLY jealous of this guy who is born into more ability than Wayne could ever train/build and who WASTES it by being a mere dilettante. If Wayne had Kent's powers he could eliminate all organized crime on the eastern seaboard in a week. Kent may never be able to publish the Batman story, but WHAT a STORY.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:46 a.m. CST

    A Green Arrow/Green Lantern movie could be dark

    by Googam_Son_of_Goom

    This is giving the execs at Warner's too much credit, but if they did a gritty Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams GL/GA/Black Canary 70's action-buddy flick, it would rock.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Cobbio-- they did that story on TV

    by Oknight

    The last 2 part episode of Superman the animated series dealt with Darkseid brainwashing Sup into leading his invasion of Earth. It was followed up with several episodes of Justice League where Superman dealt with the aftermath and his hatred for Darkseid. And YES it would kick ass as a movie.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:50 a.m. CST

    Clark Kent

    by Rommel Catuncan

    He's weak. He's unsure of himself. He's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:56 a.m. CST

    And yes Darksied is Comics best villian

    by Oknight

    He's not really evil, you understand, just ambitious-- he's the God of Power. He just wants the total control of all thought throughout all the various parallel universes. Is that too much to ask? He's from the planet of evil gods, so he's kind of evil, but his heart isn't in simple murder-- that's a waste of his future property. He lets Scott Free go, but ASKS him to stay on Apokolips so Darkseid can complete his destruction and make Scott a part of the glory that is Darkseid-- from Darkseid's perspective that's an attractive offer (Scott turns it down)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:58 a.m. CST


    by Cobbio

    Good to know, Oknight. Such a battle is striking to think about, because the only way you could ever defeat Superman (in a film, anyway) is by taking over his mind. He's too powerful to beat physically. But mentally... besides kryptonite, that's his only weakness. A new film could pump up this dynamic, plus introduce an insanely scary megalomaniac to challenge Supes, much like The Joker challenged Batman.<p> I'll check out the final 2-part episode of Superman, the animated series.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1 a.m. CST

    Your opinions suck Harry

    by sleeptones

    dark superman would be awesome bring on Doomsday!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:03 a.m. CST

    Just give Superman to Mark Millar

    by StrokerX

    It really is just that easy people.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:03 a.m. CST

    If they have Darkseid in a movie...

    by jsm1978

    One thing they HAVE to have is the line from the Justice League cartoon where Supes fought Darkseid and let himself cut loose... <p> I feel like I'm living in a world made of tissue paper. But you, you can take a punch, can't you big boy?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:04 a.m. CST

    The Brains -- bad writing

    by Oknight

    Clark is far more interesting when he has CHOSEN to be a journalist because 1.he make a change with journalism that he cannot with "powers" 2. is simply interested in people (part of the boy scout) The Boy Scout isn't an act-- that's why he also has to be Superman-- he isn't taking revenge for his parent's death. He IS human-- adopted, born alien perhaps (although physically more like a European than any east-Asian or Pacific Islander)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Too Soon!

    by jsm1978

    I know that's an AICN cliche there, but it would be FAR TOO SOON to even think about Doomsday. We just had a "Superman comes back" story, to have him die and come back, even if we are talking about ignoring "Returns", it would feel too much like a rehash.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:05 a.m. CST

    incredibly well put, Harry

    by palooka_boy

    I really think you hit the nail on the head with this. The reason Dark Knight is such a great Batman flick - nevermind that its a great film in general - is that it really nailed the character. It depicted the character, his villain, his themes, his conflicts, all his original purpose on film. Superman has been done well, but never as perfectly as Batman was done this year. And I think Singer could do another Superman flick, and do it well, as long as they don't try to make him some troubled, conflicted vigilante. The properly done Superman should deal with the proverbial weight of the world on the hero's shoulders, the idea that this man should be able to save us all, and the unforeseen consequences of his messianic mission (ie, Luthor), or the fact that he is so god-like, and yet so human at the same time. I'd love to see a Superman film that explores how Superman is compelled to be the hero because he is the only one who can be, even though he sacrifices his humanity to do it, and that his role as the hero can not be something sporadic or part-time, but it has to be his entire life, and he has to commit to it completely. I don't know much about the other heroes, but I know I would not enjoy a Wonder Woman movie that relies entirely on GIRL POWER! type themes. I'd hope a Flash movie would have a sarcastic, fun Flash that deals with a power he doesn't fully understand. I agree that a Green Lantern movie should be go science fiction crazy, and include the entire mythology of the Guardians. And the Green Arrow, I think would be good as somewhat like Iron Man was done: rich playboy enjoys the luxuries of wealth, then realizes he has a bigger destiny/responsibility whatever than to spend his life spending his wealth, but not necessarily correcting the adverse effects of his own business. More like a man realizing that there are people who don't enjoy the resources he has, and that nobody, least of all the rich, are looking out for them. And my limited knowledge of Martian Manhunter leads me here: a concurrently humorous and serious movie about an alien stuck on Earth, forced to figure out how to conform. The only problem with that, I think, is that if done incorrectly, it would turn into some ham-fisted "Why do humans make war/pollute/allow poverty" morality story. And I know I'm in the minority on this, but I still think there's potential in an Aquaman movie.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:08 a.m. CST


    by jsm1978

    I think a bigger risk with your Manhunter idea would be that it would be too campy... "Oh look, the alien doesn't understand why humans do such and such. Isn't that HILARIOUS??? lolz"

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:12 a.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    That's a quote from "Kill Bill Vol. 2". (Glad you picked that up). So go into geek meltdown with QT please. Maybe at some party. <P> "Man, you can ride my tail ANYTIME!"

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Superman to Mark Millar and

    by StrokerX

    Aquaman to Aronofksy....Flash to Whedon...Green Lantern to Spielberg...Wonderwoman to um....Alexandre Aja?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:13 a.m. CST

    a great look at Superman as a character...

    by palooka_boy

    read a book of poems called "Krypton Nights" by Bryan Dietrich. Four sections of poems, written from the perspectives of Superman, Jor-El, Lois Lane and Lex Luthor. The guy (Dietrich) obviously knew his Superman shit when writing it.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:14 a.m. CST


    by palooka_boy

    good point. I think I was thinking of that while writing but forgot to put it down. It can be funny, but not "Brother From Another Planet" funny

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Bad news

    by darthvedder81

    I'm in a great minority but I loved "Superman Returns." The movie obviously didn't connect with mass audiences or comic book fans but I don't consider myself a member of either category. I was really looking forward to where Singer was going to take it (especially his comment about MOS being about an "angry god").

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:33 a.m. CST

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Shia as Jerry Siegel and/or Joe Shuster.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:34 a.m. CST

    Did I just hear John Carpenters music...

    by mr.brownstone

    from Escape From New York playing during the diving recap on the Olympics just now?!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:53 a.m. CST


    by jsm1978

    Had it's good points. I thought Routh did well (as good as you can when someone points to Reeve and says "be that guy"), and it looked beautiful. Metropolis, the Daily Planet... everything about it looked amazing.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Superheroes are as individual as everyday people.

    by JDanielP

    Harry gets it. And Warner Bros. needs to know that comic book superheroes aren't just "cut and paste" characters. Gotham City is much different than Metropolis. In fact, these fictional cities mirror their hometown heroes. Dark and scary? Bright and energized? You figure it out.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:13 a.m. CST

    How about Ridley Scott for directing SUPERMAN?

    by JDanielP

    If Warner Bros. desire a touch of that Nolan flavor, seems Ridley Scott might be the answer. Though, I would question Ridley's interest in Superman.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Dark and brooding Howard the Duck reboot

    by Darth_Inedible

    Hell give us a dark and brooding Star Wars reboot with Luke as a feral orphan wandering the hard streets of Nar Shaddaa. What property wouldn't benefit from more brooding?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:32 a.m. CST

    They'll SCREW IT UP... as usual, simply because

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    They DON'T think... They just react.<p>Marvel has a long-term plan of introducing individual heroes, culminating in a team-up film? Let's DO IT!<p>Dark, brooding real-world Batman and Watchmen made over a billion bucks? Let's do Superman, Shazam, Plastic Man and G'Nort the SAME WAY! It'll be a SMASH!<p>Until the morons in Hollywood seriously go back to the source materials and understand that each of these characters brings their own unique flavor to the mix, they'll simply continue to pump out crummy films that fail to excite the audiences and lose money hand over fist.<p>And for the last time — okay, maybe not last — HIRE BILLY ZANE to play Lex Luthor in any future Superman films!!! He needs the work and WE need a Lex Luthor we can RESPECT and believe is actually DANGEROUS! >:O

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:35 a.m. CST

    Uh, you realize that if the Sun actually shrunk...

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    We'd all be dead, right? There'd be no human race left alive to enslave and it'd be a really short film.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:39 a.m. CST


    by SnapT

    That is all.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:40 a.m. CST


    by SnapT

    So a dark and brooding movie reboot would make perfect sense and could cause creator Steve Gerber to smile down at us all from Heaven.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:48 a.m. CST

    LEX LUTHOR would be fine, as long as...

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    He was the catalyst to a GREATER threat. Say, as a "fer instance," if LexCorp created an artificial wormhole and it led to Darkseid discovering Earth as a new world to conquer and enslave.<p>Of course, that might work better as a Justice League film, where you could show the effects of such an invasion on Gotham and other cities besides Metropolis, with the various heroes each defending a different area.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:52 a.m. CST

    There'd be no "war of survival" if the Sun shrunk...

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Even a little. And especially if it shrunk enough to affect Superman's powers.<p>The Earth is in a perfect balance in regards to distance from the Sun and the Sun's size, in order to support life on the planet. Change either dynamic, even a little, and life on Earth wouldn't exist. We'd be an ice cube.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:56 a.m. CST

    Just read the fucking Bryne reboot

    by David Cloverfield

    The first few issues of Man of Steel are telling you how to handle Superman in a more or less realistic way. It should be theirgoddamned cookbook.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:06 a.m. CST

    Hackman as Luthor

    by mrbong

    WAS NOT BUMBLING! i think you are thinking of Ned Beatty as Otis. Hackman played the megalomaniac to deranged perfection, you lot just want that bald broody twat in the shit that is Smallville i guess. anyway, this whole article is less actual film talk, more Harry's desire to see a Darkseid film, whatever the hell that is.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:08 a.m. CST


    by Aranthrael

    I don't have any faith in movie studios getting cosmic villains right, either. Think about what happened with Galactus (a fucking cloud? boooooooooo.) Darkseid, while an awesome comic book villain, would probably end up as a bad pun spouting intergalactic slave trader played by a ex-WWE wrestler. Ewwww.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:15 a.m. CST

    Typical Hollywood

    by sailingmaster

    Just more proof of how Hollywood thinks. The standard model has been this way for almost 20 years now. Whatever works, whatever made money, make five more just like it, make those five cheaper and faster to maximize the profit before the next "thing that works" comes along. Hollywood like many American business venues has suffered greatly since they let the accountants into the boardrooms.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:29 a.m. CST

    You think you know me.

    by UltimaRex

    You don't. <p> I hear everything. <p> I see everything. <p> I am faster than thought. <p> Stronger than your wildest imaginings. <p> I am all power. <p> All control. <p> And I'm all alone.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:42 a.m. CST

    just saying...

    by UltimaRex

    ...if anyone actually wants a "dark and realistic" Superman. It can be done. Dealing with the R-rated side of it will be a challenge though...

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:02 a.m. CST

    Create new villains

    by Happyfat73

    Okay... so this will probably be unpopular, but why can't they just create new villains for the film medium - heck, most of the villains in the comic properties are liabilities rather than assets anyway.</p> Film is a diferent medium... I reckon they shouldn't be too beholden to existing characters and story arcs and go ahead and create villains and storylines that are more cinematic. </p> Of course, it has to be done right, and by artists who understand the characters. But it's food for thought, anyway.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:02 a.m. CST

    I think we are forgetting one thing Here and its

    by emeraldboy

    very important. HARRY HATES WB.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:12 a.m. CST

    Dark and brooding??

    by kafka07

    There are definitely dark and tragic things that happen to every one of these characters, so I can almost see what he might mean. But to go and make each of them tonally "brooding" like Dark Knight is a strange way to go. I just don't get it. Tragic things happen to Tony Stark, but Iron Man isn't a brooding movie. I hope Warners comes to understand this difference. At least this news comes with the end of the JLA film (for now). It's better to build gradually to a multi-hero film, but only if each character's film has its unique color and tone.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:15 a.m. CST

    I thought Kevin Spacey

    by bender7

    was achingly close to the perfect Lex Luthor. But the script just didn't do him justice. The whole seducing that old lady bit and then the just plain retarded land scheme made the character laughable. But I don't think Lex is the only factor to a Superman movie to make it work. Why I hated Returns was because Clark Kent was not so much mishandled as just completely left out of the picture. Clark Kent isn't just some pathetic facade that holds Supes back, Kent is our best connection to Superman.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:20 a.m. CST

    Gutted for Singer...

    by wildphantom07

    Superman Returns, despite not pleasing everybody, was a beautiful piece of work and a fine tribute to the original film. Part of me really wants to see what Singer would do with a sequel to that. Routh was great, despite not being the build I would want. <p> I think WB are going to have to bring in a HUGE name to direct this next reboot. and no we don't really want dark Superman. Harry's dead on. Do we need an origin movie again? Hmmm, I'm not sure. Big decisions to be made. Doing the origin for Batman again was the right decision. For Supes, just not sure. <p> Thank god they're not rushing into a JLA movie though.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:22 a.m. CST

    I would like Harry...

    by emeraldboy

    To make a fucking movie. Stop talking about making them and do it. criticism hollywood is easy. if you hate hollywood. Hating Hollywood can get very tiresome, if you dont at least say, I'll give it at try. You will either fall flat on your face or you will succeed. Preaches to the obviously converted with his anti hollywood bias. Untill such time as he starts making films. I am not listening. oh and one more thing. my elder brother(who is an immensly qualified dr) has met people in business at the very highest level who have degrees in medicine and havent got a clue.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 5:16 a.m. CST

    If I ruled the world

    by a rolling stone

    Ryan Renyolds would be the fast-moving, fast-talking Flash, Josh Halloway would by a wise-cracking, arrow-slinging Green Arrow, Patrick Wareburton would be the squinty, boy-playing-man Capt. Marvel, a bearded, angry, tortured Brad Pitt would be Aquaman, and Mr. Eko would be painted green with a stick-on beetle brow and called J'Onn J'Onzz...oh, and Megan Gale would be Wonder Woman with ample nudity in the script (all tastefully done with blue lights and baby oil, of course).

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 5:48 a.m. CST

    I vote for...

    by Film.guy.Pete

    Tom Welling as superman or A CGI Alex Ross style JL As for a "dark" superman and other superheros - yes WB will fuck this up. Man WB just doesn't get it. The just keep missing it. Their whole angle is going to change yet again when WATCHMEN gets here and kicks ass.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:31 a.m. CST

    I'll respect MARVEL more when they making 'Ultimates' films

    by Monkey_King

    basing their films on the ULTIMATE universe is separating to longtime die-hard fanboys from the new, virgin comic-reading crowd who were probably born in the mid to late 80's and are fed "reimagined" heroes and villians that were famous to begin with.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Get Grant Morrisson to script

    by L. Ron Bumquist

    Philip Glass to score. Don't bother with an origin story. Do Lex right and throw in Brainiac. Krypto to make an appearance please!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Now, I don't see ' dark ' being the issue....

    by PTSDPete

    But classic DC esque ineptitude. Dark Knight makes it and works, let's make films that are EXACTLY like that - and make that spastic, assembly-line. Just coopt the nominal profile of a triumphant product, and transpant it into yours uninspired. That's been DC Comic's awfully transparent policy since Dan Didio arrived ( well snatch even MORE currently high-profile creators at the moment for the top product ; not realizing what got them high profile to begin with; and that is them being ' outside ' as choices for the respective titles, and the radicalism of handing material to new talent - and emphasis on the NEW ... ); I did NOT expect that policy to directly indicate their parent company ( thought they were more autonomous than that ). For shame. Carbon copy shit. Making each and every film look and feel like this tentpole one, and patterning their properties model exactly to the current Marvel one stems from a corporate lack of vision. ' Hit and Miss ' is the only other thing they got packed as arsenal. But then again, ' Hit and Miss ' is the only one that works - w/c is morally correct, ultimately worthwhile, and deserved. Fuck that Titanic.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:09 a.m. CST

    Here's a Shocker....

    by emeraldboy

    No more superman movies. if they cant do right why do it all.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:18 a.m. CST

    And I take issue with that Spiderman blurb, Harry :

    by PTSDPete

    When HASN'T Peter Parker been gloomy and brooding ? He's always a miserable, whiny turd ridden with post-traumatic anxiety, and that's how the crowd has always loved him. ( w/c just got me into a thought - that we haven't really much seen the actual, neurotic-edgy, original Steve Ditko incarnation yet ( the one that truly felt unstable, just like nearly all teenagers ); Sam Raimi was a merchandize-friendly, cloying , and Disney-fied bastard ( that got emo in the third, and went cloying-to-infernal ). So, that would be an interesting thing to explore in a new franchise incarnation ). He couldn't shut up about Uncle Ben's death in his mind ; at least, the Christian Bale Batman really moved on , and kudos to that ( the ' darkness ' stems from the course of action he takes afterwards, and the instability of his social battle against a noun ( ' crime ' ). And for a young adult to take in forever ? Pretty dark, I say. So, yes, I was actually counting on that film to be REALLY dark. Like " Gwen Stacy going snapped-neck through Spidey's lifeline by the bridge ' dark ( which so happens to be one of his most classic stories of all time ). The major distinctive trait he has is that he'd ' crack jokes ' while at it. That's what made him ' Spiderman ', in a way that lame-ass Tony fucking Stark cannot compare ( reducing him to an even more B-grade character than in the comics ). What you should have said, Mr. Knowles, is that Spiderman shouldn't have to be ' The Dark Knight '- AND Superman shouldn't have been ' The Dark Knight ', and that DC/Warner Brothers should just stick to getting their own imagination. Plus, didn't they go all moody bitch on Superman already, and FAILED at it ?!? The fault is that they're all done mostly lame, and they don't go the distance with these sort of stuff. ' The Dark Knight ' and hopefully, ' Watchmen ' would have change that one bit.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:19 a.m. CST

    Warner Brothers right about one thing...

    by Mal Carne

    It's made very, very clear in TDK that Batman is Batman because Gothan *needs* him to be. There *must* be a Batman. If he wasn't there, Gotham would suffer. That's a question that has to be answered in every superhero movie. Why must there be a Superman? Or a Flash? The Flash can be dark - look back at the old TV series. It just has to be the right *kind* of dark. A '30 Superman would be awesome, but would it really sell, or would it feel too much like "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow II"? Time will tell...

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:20 a.m. CST

    Superman as Batman

    by Neosamurai85

    Oddly, I saw a lot of what I'd want in a superman movie in The Dark Knight, in that I want Lex to be that devastating. They pushed Batman's technology to Godlike extreams... making him almost like superman, and yet the Joker still got the upper hand. I don't want the tone of The Dark Knight per se, but I want Lex to win. I want the triumph Singer showed, when he stabbed superman on the island. Lex IS Smarter, only this time don't make superman THAT powerful. Overall though, the secret to a good superman movie is not in the suspense from fear for superman, it's the fear for the people he tries to protect. The scene in Superman returns when he saves the plane with Lois, that's the best part of that film, because lives are at stake and superman is up against realistic physics, his super strength rips the plane apart as he tries to grab it. At the ending when Superman flies through the city and is able to save EVERYBODY... that's when the film fell into bullshit territory and never got back out. Superman catching stuff moments before it could crushed someone is boring. Superman, despite all his powers, being unable to be at two places at once and having to make tough calls because Lex hits him from multiple angles... that is NOT BORING. I swear, the original Donner film was brilliant. Other than the old black and white TV show (which got the point about putting the suspense on the fate of bystanders and friends of superman and came up with creative was to actually hurt him now and then), I've never been a big fan of superman, but when I saw that SPOILER climax where Lois seems to have died in the earthquake... I was sold. I was into superman... and then Donner lost me within seconds by pulling that time travel crap. Superman can't be THAT godlike, it gives no reason to invest. You've got to let some characters really die. You've got to let him fail now and then. He doesn't need to be broody, but he needs a Lex that can put him in his place and make it stick. That's all.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:33 a.m. CST

    Actually, Why Not The Wachowskis?

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    I'm pretty vocal about my dislike for the Wachowski brothers. But why not let them do a pitch at least? (I imagine they will, I imagine everyone with WB/DC connections will). Could they really be worse than Michael Bay?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:34 a.m. CST

    That being said :

    by PTSDPete

    They should inspect closely and see what REALLY made ' The Dark Knight ' mindblowingly successful to the people who watched it much as the accountants with their calculating machines. And that is this is the perhaps the first superhero film that felt like an actual complete movie, not just something to sell toys & such. It's the first one that DIDN'T feel like a franchise, asking for your support - one that any filmgoer could level with and respect without stooping down to its preconcieved base-level consumerist aims. One that actually seemed like it only wants to tell a story, in any way it needs and deserves to be told ; so much triumphant that it's not just something you can mess and extend to put in a fave villian-of-the-week anymore. This makes any notion of a third film a banality, besided ' tough '; and yet cinema more of wins. So they should do more of these string of ' story movies '; and make it culminate in a grander ' story movie ' that makes logistical sense ( aka League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ) - instead of just one to put successful franchise characters in the same boat just for the heck of it. That would be a pretty compelling cinematic ( if not literary, to some extent ) experiment, much as a worthwhile endeavor. To do truly different, disparate series of stand-alone superhero movies that interlock like jigsaw into an even bigger one starring their lynchpins. Do ' Supermax ', not Green Arrow; do ' Amazon ' or something, and not Wonder Woman, ' Guardians of the Galaxy ' or OA and not Green Lantern, then bring all them together. Not as story threads and spin-offs of a bigger arc ( ' coz that's corny ); make them as independent and disparate as they can be than blatantly title character ones - and then put them all into something that doesn't just continue all their stories in the previous films ( whose logistics is as problematic as unnecessary, ' coz it's just pointless self-cannibalization ), so much as put them in a place where they can go even further, and veer into grander directions. Make that ' Justice League ' , and it would be alright. Pardon me for just shooting the shit here.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:56 a.m. CST

    The Super Script Problem

    by TroutMaskReplicant

    One thing I've noticed reading all the discarded Superman scripts, is that they're all the same really. They all could've been plotted out by some guy on this talkback. There just wasn't that special something. When people talk about the great Superman comic book storylines they keep bringing up peculiar stories like Secret Identity or Red Son. It's almost like the core Superman stories are worn ragged. I also think the Lois and Clark TV show and Smallville have given Superman a nasty small screen sheen, where he should be epic. And it's a shame that Singer misused the growing crystals plotpoint. Quite a few interesting things could have been developed from that which didn't involve real estate schemes. Arguably it was Krptonian nanotechnology. If ever there was a need for the supergenius Lex.

  • It ain't dark but it sure as hell is adult. It doesn't change or reinvent the character but it sure as hell casts him in interesting new situations. And it ain't silly, but it sure as hell gets at the core of what makes the character great. It's moving and strange. It's perfect. Get Grant Morrison to work on it. He's an icon himself; his involvement would be a good story to get the initial hype machine cranking. <p>ALL STAR SUPERMAN ALL STAR SUPERMAN ALL STAR SUPERMAN

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:12 a.m. CST

    harry are you in marketing?

    by HypeEndsHere

    why else provide Warners with a free roundtable discussion of what they fanboys want? if they don't know what to do with billion dollar characters, fuggem

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:13 a.m. CST

    fans didn't reject the dark

    by Curious Jorge

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:14 a.m. CST

    fans didn't reject the dark Spider-Man

    by Curious Jorge

    in SM3; they rejected the campy way the dark Spider-Man was handled.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:25 a.m. CST

    I Think it's been mentioned...

    by TCSailor

    But Superman is a Boy Scout. If you want a darker tone, get a darker villain or at least one that does some exceptionally horrific deeds and make him one a powerful foe, along the lines of Braniac. Superman should have to use all of his fantastic abilities just to stay alive and not just save the day. Darker might work with Green Arrow. Green Lantern to a degree. Can't see an evil side to Wonder Woman or Flash.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:40 a.m. CST

    I wouldn't mind seeing a "Nolanised" Superman.

    by OptimusBob

    The thing is Christopher Nolan got the tone RIGHT for Batman i.e. dark and brooding. The thing is Gotham was in the grip of crime and corruption, Metropolis is not, well not to the extent of Gotham anyway and not to mention the fact your protagonist is an alien who fights supervillains. Basically, different source material, different city and different cirmstances/situation= different tone and I bet if Nolan was to helm Superman he would respect the SOURCE MATERIAL like he did Batman.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:43 a.m. CST

    They already made a Dark Green Lantern Film.

    by Smerdyakov

    It's called Star Wars.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Couldn't have said it better myself....

    by Jazner

    I think Harry hit the nail squarely on the head......dark and brooding is NOT Superman. I personally was anxious to see what Singer and co. did with 'Man of Steel.' Don't get me wrong, 'Returns' had its shortcomings, but it was obviously primed to set up a huge story in the next film, something Singer did with X-Men/X2. Who knows where they go with Superman now. Dear Lord, please don't give it to someone like Brett Ratner!!! If they really want to 'reboot' the franchise, then REBOOT it. Bring in someone who knows the source material to write a seriously kick ass script, with Lex Luthor as the supporting villain to someone like Brainiac, and let Zack Snyder direct it. Now THAT'S a Reboot.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Casting Fun

    by OptimusBob

    Superman/Kal-el/Clark Kent - Matthew Fox Lois Lane - Courteney Cox/Helena Bonham Carter Lex Luthor - Bruce Willis (I think he would be good playing a villain who believes he's actually doing the right thing by ridding the world of an alien threat like Superman.) Pa Kent - Sam Elliot Ma Kent - Katherine Ross Jor-el - Robert Downey jnr. (remember, Supes was a baby when Jor-el blasted him off into space, so his dad wouldn't be that old and later appears to his son as a HOLOGRAM; holograms don't age.) Director: Christpher Nolan/Ridley Scott.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:57 a.m. CST


    by cripeman

    CG is how you should handle your properties. <P> Have the characters stylized. Go nuts with colors ... <P> CGI characters never die...age...or look obvious when the CG is introduced into the live mix. <P> PLUS <P> You can do the big Crises -type movies or *fingers crossed* Marvel/DC cross-overs.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Damnit! You know what this forum needs?

    by OptimusBob

    an EDIT function; so you can go back and fix any errors you made instead of typing it all out again. Just looking at my last post, and there's a couple of grammatical errors in there, oh well.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:15 a.m. CST

    Emo Wonder Woman?

    by telecomplainer

    Because of course it's no longer "PC" to put her in red white and blue. So she'll be in all black. And her lasso will no longer be golden and make people tell the truth. It'll be black and make people conform to her emoness.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Well said Harry

    by Ko-Dan_Mothership

    Well said. . . but I doubt that stuio executives take anything seriously anymore. They look for a formula, some combination of merchandising and hype . . . Remember all those lines fom the Player . . . It's "insert movie" meets "insert second movie." Sad and uncreative, the only way they know how to think about the films they finance.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:26 a.m. CST

    When they make the next Superman film...

    by OptimusBob

    ...I hope they get the character of Lex Luthor right. He isn't some bumbling schmuck who fucks old women to death to get at their assets, he's an egomaniacal billionaire genius. On the surface his reason for making an enemy out of Superman is that he believes that this alien superbeing poses a threat to humanity, but when you look below the surface it's because Lex's ego has taken a bruising; He can no longer make the claim to be "The most powerful man in Metropolis" or the world for that matter, not with Superman flying around.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:38 a.m. CST

    They did not get Iron Man right, either, in retrospect....

    by PTSDPete

    Looking back, it just bothers me how they utterly mangled that character in that movie. That whole bit just sort of became one drawn-out, deadpan Robert Downey Jr. TV sitcom routine on a character. They practically just handed that property to him to take it everywhere he damn pleased; and that's what happened : it did not look like the comic at it's best times. That's practically like putting Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio in as Superman, and make them go all pathos at it like a sonofabitch. It should have been far straight, like ' Jason Bourne ' straight, or ' Casino Royale ' James Bond straight, as it should be - fucking gritty and sophisticated where they could really go crazy techno-thriller all over that, and not a washed up, happy camper version of ' Batman Begins '. Instead, we get some Republican anti-Spiderman, whose run the tangible possibilities of the cannon down the ground with his quips. Shit, it's probably what has been irking me from the start, preventing me from liking it as much as everybody else. 'Coz, really, I don't give a fuck about the lousy womanizing billionaire. I give a fuck about the lousy womanizing billionare taking down the Crimson Dynamo !!! If that's what you are only gonna get from this, then fuck that. The plotting of the origin was impeccable, as is the more salient way they wrote the ' mechanical heart ' aspect - brilliant and original. Sadly, in all fairness, that's the only thing good it had. And I finally figured out why so many people liked it. This is a film that has practically allowed people to legitimately laugh AT superheroes again , and superhero movies in general; & to see it as the Archie-level jokebook they ever thought it was - by having people at the center who, inadvertently or otherwise, practically tell you it's really all ridiculous. Can you imagine them doing something that to, I don't know, their ' Vantage Point '? This is of malcontent bias thrown in the direction of a fricking medium, they say should stay goofy or else dead. They practically went off and had their way on this property here. Did you ever think audiences got the action, and the spiffy robotics and shit ( its strongest suits ) ? Fucking grating. It took ' The Dark Knight ' to get all these people to pay attention again, but sadly, in this case, the joke was on superhero comic fans all along.....So I guess this ' dark ' treatment may quite end up fine; though I hope they revise that to at least mean ' serious ' - like Marvel Movies' initial slate of films ( X2, Spiderman, Daredevil, especially X2 ) were. Stop thinking like Dan Didio, dammit !

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:46 a.m. CST

    Mark My Words :

    by PTSDPete

    Few years from now, when a maverick director nobody ever anticipated ( like Paul Greengrass, or, well Christopher Nolan ) goes headstrong mining the major potentials of ' Iron Man ' material properly, and delivers THE legitimate techno-thriller ' Iron Man ' film people need in their lives, you will all look back at Robert Downey Jr.'s performance and DESPISE it, and you'd be right. Just like with the Jack Nicholson ' Joker ', or the Tim Burton ' Batman ', or Adam fricking West. And people will still think Heath Ledger was brilliant. Face it, ' Iron Man ' was a movie for people not wanting these superhero things going Hunt for Red October onto them.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Can i say...

    by brandon11

    can i say that a "The Question" could kick some serious ass? i think his comics are pretty underestimated. if there werent so many recent film noir-type movies coming out, he could probably have a kick ass film

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Forget those superhero clowns.

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    Make a Sgt. Rock movie. Dark Nazi's and Hitler as a villian. What else do you need?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:48 a.m. CST

    At this years edinburg TV festival the head of ITV

    by emeraldboy

    Peter Fincham Angrily Blasted the UK TV watchdog OFcom. He accused them of using poltical correctness of Suffocating creativith He said of them that they imagine Tv as a sort of Social Enginerring experiment and that they were not of the real world. "You wouldnt" he said "imagine a parking warden getting into your car after giving you a ticket and tell you to drive your car. if this tick box contiunes tv drama will be eliminated as will comedy too. This suffocation is also being felt in the film business. When Janet jacksons boob fell out and america went into convulsion, in europe we shrugged out shoulders and said big deal. When the same thing nearly happend to judy finnegan at an awards ceremony in london it made for great tv, her husband rushed up on stage to stop here boob from falling. hilarious. PC is being used by the American film industry to strangulate creativity. Oh and by the way go to darkhorizons and see a picture brandon Routh in the new superman costume.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST


    by brandon11

    also, how incredibly sick could a Sandman movie be if done properly? maybe guillermo del torro...well i guess neil geiman(i forget the spelling) would probably do it. i dunno. thoughts on a morpheus?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST

    For those who have been here a while.....

    by Underoos Hero

    I've been part of these talkbacks for 8 years now under many names (as most of you change your handles every day it seems) And most of you know my new handle "Underoos Hero" as the Batman Begins hating mongrol. Well, fellow TBer's I'm here to say that as much as I hate to say it, THE DARK KNIGHT KICKED SOME FUCKING ASS!!! Goddamn it I wanted it too suck. But it just didn't. Damn I suck.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:54 a.m. CST

    I'm sick of reboots.

    by rbatty024

    Superman Returns wasn't perfect, but it was much better than most superhero films. Instead of doing away with the first movie why don't they fix what they didn't like with the first film. Remember how much better X2 was than X1, well that can be done with a Superman Returns sequel. <p> Does anyone remember that Green Arrow: Super Max prison film? That sounded like a really interesting idea. What the hell happened with that?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by brandon11

    i dunno dude. i really feel like they should have rebooted superman. dont get me wrong, the old films are awsome and i would never hate on them, but they should have rebooted in an Incredible Hulk type way. i think its time for a new superman for a new generation of comic book movies.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:02 a.m. CST

    The Kryptonian Knight

    by necgray

    It starts out with Supes interrupting Luthor in the middle of a bank heist. Some bodybuilders in Superman capes are trying to emulate Supes and stop the robbery, but they're getting their asses kicked. These faux-heroes will not be relevent to the story in any way despite the inherent intrigue. Supes tells Luthor, "I don't want to see you in my town again." Luthor then inexplicably disappears for the rest of the movie, despite the fact that he's a primary villain and was a huge part of Returns. Clark shows up for work at the Planet where he runs into Lana Lang, who is currently dating Pete Ross. There's an implication of romantic tension between Clark and Lana, but it doesn't actually play onscreen and isn't really resolved. Braniac meanwhile has landed on the planet and begun tearing Metropolis a new asshole. He shows up at the Planet and threatens to kill every staff member until they hand over Pete Ross, who Clark has hidden in a broom closet. To show how serious he is, Braniac throws Lana out a window. Supes flies out the window and saves Lana. Cut to a completely new scene, ignoring the questions: Did Braniac kill the Planet staff as threatened? Why didn't he find Pete? I think you get where I'm going with this sarcastic little diatribe...

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST


    by brandon11

    that was actually pretty entertaining. i was confused about the scarecrow's defacement as a major player too.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Iron man DID work.

    by So What?

    Ptsdpete, you are so wrong. People do not despise Nicholson's Joker!Or the "Tim Burton "Batman"",or Downey as Stark(Who was fuckin great).

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST


    by Ko-Dan_Mothership

    So basically, what you want is stone-faced, one-dimensional heroes and flat dialogue. Well if you want that, go to Blockbuster, close you eyes, and pick a random movie from the Action shelf. You got choices, man. Go wild.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Ugh Reboot is fine but don't try to make Superman into Batman

    by BLWiseass

    They are different characters. How do these people get high paying jobs with studios when they are so incredibly clueless. Superman is an uplifting hero. He's the epitome of good almost to a fault. He should not be self loathing & guilt ridden. I am all for a reboot. After Returns, it was clear thats what we needed. As for a good Lex Luthor, look no further than the Lex that we saw in the animated Superman and Justice League cartoons.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:19 a.m. CST

    I refused to see the Hulk reboot...

    by rbatty024

    and I will refuse to see a Superman reboot. I had a couple of problems with Superman Returns. Namely, the plot was a retread of the original film and Bosworth was cringe worthy as Lois Lane. Other than that I thought there was a lot to like in that film: Routh was great in the role, I thought the kid was an interesting change with some great possibilities, and I liked how they dealt with Superman's estrangement from humanity. <p> I suppose if you hated the first film a reboot wouldn't bother you, but I actually liked it. Most people just thought Superman should have punched more stuff, so all you have to do is make Superman punch more stuff. You don't need a reboot to add more action.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:21 a.m. CST

    PTSDPete, you miss the f'n point, jackass

    by necgray

    Comic book movies are still movies, dillweed. They're not your personal precious little comic book fanboy fantasies. They have to play to more than just you and the crowd at Comic-Con. I don't get you small-minded purist types who can't seem to understand that adaptation is not slavery. A film is NOT a comic book! It's a film! What is this "their" Vantage Point bullshit? It's a MOVIE! They're both MOVIES! Iron Man was every bit as commercial Hollywood as Vantage Point! You're as bad as independent filmmakers who use that bullshit "us vs them" mentality to denounce mainstream film. It's all the same goddamn medium, the same artform, the same industry. And if someone comes along in 20 years and makes a techno-thriller Iron Man and it does great business, Favreau's Iron Man will STILL have been a worthy and well-received film. It's like assholes who think that Nolan's Batman Begins somehow trumped Burton's original. It didn't! It was a different movie entirely, different in tone and intent and EVERYTHING. Both legit efforts to tell part of the Batman origin myth.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Reboot issues

    by A for Aristocrat

    I think Superman returns boxed the franchise into a corner to a point that they have to reboot. The Batman Begins reboot had the benefit of being the first origin movie. Superman already had a origin movie and it will be very hard to top that. Also, rebooting means yet another movie with Lex freaking Luthor. While it would be great if they used the rich smartest man in the world Lex, they cannot make him the main villian again. That would have Lex as the villain in 5 out of 6 Superman movies. Counting Zod the superman movies have had 2 comic villains. Even reusing villains,the past 6 Batman movies have used 11 costumed and 2 mob. Which brings up Supermans biggest flaw, not enough good enemies. Luthor and Brainiac are about it. Darkseid is a co-op. Kind of like Doctor Doom becoming everyones enemy, not just the Fantastic Fours. After five movies, Brainiac deserves the movie treatment.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    30's Superman!

    by demzer

    I agree with the poster who advocated a period Superman--now THAT would be interesting--even the earliest version where Supes couldn't even fly--he just could leap tall buildings in a single bound. Barring that choice ( way too daring for the studios) a good screenwriter could explore the CONTRAST between The Big Blue Boy Scout and the cynical world--if he didn't have the power to back up his idealistic world view, he'd be laughed off. But in some ways just like JFK, his power combined with his hopefulness of what humanity can be can actually inspire people and pull them out of their selfishness and cynicism...the line I loved from Donner's Superman was when Chris Reeves said, "I never lie, Lois." He wasn't embarrassed that was old-fashioned or boy scoutish...he said it so simply like, that's the way it SHOULD be. He stands for community and service and integrity. Now match him up against a villain who stands for the opposite (and has some real power, too) and you have a movie.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:27 a.m. CST

    oh, brandon11, the questions don't stop there

    by necgray

    From start to finish, TDK is chocabloc with undeveloped subplots and holes like that Joker fundraiser scene. It's still an enjoyable film on many levels, but it kills me that so many people seem to outright ignore the script flaws.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST


    by A for Aristocrat

    I think you hit the nail on the head and thats how Lex Luthor would work in a reboot. Superman the eternal optimist, seeing the best in people. Lex Luthor the cynical realist seeing the worst in human nature. You have an outside foe (Brainic!!!) and have the intellectual fight between those two philosophies as the theme. Again...Lex Luthor NOT the main villian.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Jon Hamm for Superman!

    by wilsonfisk89

    And a strong, independent, kick-ass Lois Lane as opposed to the meek Ms. Bosworth.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:44 a.m. CST

    bring back the j.j. abrams "Superman" script

    by steely_dan

    I unabashedly loved "Superman Returns." It was a beautiful, dark, melancholy film that (and I know this is sacrilege) was better than the Christopher Reeve films. But if WB is going to make a change and go in a different direction, then really go in a different direction: use the J.J. Abrams "Superman" screenplay. What i like most about the Abrams script is the way it was set up from the beginning to be a trilogy. Many people who read the script cried foul because Krypton never exploded. But I liked that. It was a "Wayne Manor burns to the ground" idea like Christopher Nolan used in "Batman Begins": something so unexpected and different that it tells the audience that this series is clearly going in a different direction than you expected. The idea of Krypton not exploding (or at least not exploding in the first film) also opens up different avenues to explore in the sequels. I haven't read it in awhile, but if I'm not mistaken, the Abrams script ends with Superman flying back to Krypton to rescue his family. That would allow for the introduction of: Kara-Supergirl (without all the convoluted contortions that are usually necessary to introduce her when Krypton no longer exists); Zod (without the silliness of the Phantom Zone); Braniac (if you go with the Bruce Timm angle that the character is from Krypton); and Kandor (as a real, functioning city, without the silly miniaturization angle). Assuming that Superman liberates Krypton after returning, the character is then faced with a legitimate moral dilemma: stay on his home world where his roots are and where he is revered as a liberator and a king; or return to Earth to be with his family and loved ones. That's a direction (both narratively and emotionally) that the character has rarely (if ever) been pulled before. Adding to the dilemma: on Krypton he would be a king but he would lose all his physical powers; on Earth he would keep his physical powers but would be not be a ruler. Then assume that Superman does come back to Earth. What if while he's gone, Luthor has taken over the planet (in the script he was Kryptonian, another one of those "Wayne Manor burns to the ground" moments), perhaps with a series of Superman clones (a riff on the Bizarro idea). If that happens, it shows real consequences for the actions that Superman has taken: he left to liberate the planet where he was born, but in doing so he left unprotected the planet where he was raised. By saving one world he causes another to suffer. I'm just throwing these ideas out there, but by doing so I'm trying to suggest that doing something different (sacrilege, I know) can actually be interesting. Having familiar characters face unexpected moral choices makes them interesting to an audience which has demonstrated little interest in the characters otherwise (and again, I say this as a huge fan of "Superman Returns"). I just hope WB has the courage to push the envelope with Superman the way they have with Nolan's Batman. And I hope they don't get beholden to the DC Comics Fundamentalists (as Michael Keaton called them back in the 1980s) who will not accept any change at all from the status quo of what's in the Superman comic books (but which no one but the Fundamentalists are reading anyway). Just my two cents.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Harry sorry to break it to you...

    by fassbinder79

    ...But some of us like our comics dark and brooding (i.e. David Lapham, Garth Ennis, Warren Ellis). If DC wants to start taking their characters in this direction THANK GOD. Iron Man was awful. There is a reason that Dark Knight spanked it this summer and its because the movie represented the times we are living in. If potential war with Russia isn't "dark and brooding" enough for you then I don't know what is. DC/Warner Bros go back to the Cagney precode days. Give us something dark and menacing like you are good at. Don't listen to these people on here. They don't know what they are talking about. Trust your first instinct.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11 a.m. CST

    TDK was true to the comic

    by A for Aristocrat

    I don't see Batman Begins or TDK as breaking new ground or being innovative. The brilliance of the movies is that they stayed true to the source material and made it mainstream. Nolan juggled some events and changed some things like Ra's becoming Bruces mentor but he did that in the comics (though much later). Nolan didn't copy things word for word from the comics but he retained the spirit. You can see alot of The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, and Batman Year one in TDK. What completely blows me away about Nolans Batman is that I never thought I would see this version of Batman on the movie screen. The fact that he was able to get this version on the screen and make it profitable and even create the possibility of an Oscar is amazing.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:10 a.m. CST

    fassbinder, I disagree...

    by Arnold Shitzembigger

    Not everyone wants to wallow in fear and darkness just because the world around sucks. They also want to escape. I think it's a personality thing. There are probably less dark and brooding folk out there in the world so that is why you get the craptaculars such as the Fantastic 4. I also disagree that Iron Man was awful. I thought it struck the perfect thematic balance with its material. Funny without being campy, serious when it had to be, and entertaining and compelling. Maybe a little lackluster in action, but the right tone. Lighten up Francis! :)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:23 a.m. CST

    it was wallowing in fear and darkness

    by emeraldboy

    that brought arnies film career to an end. it was over by then, anyway.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:29 a.m. CST


    by codymr

    As a fan of the World's Finest, your breakdown of the Wayne/Kent Batman/Superman personas is very interesting. I never thought about it quite that way, but you make a lot of sense.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:36 a.m. CST

    So here's why Dark Knight worked for me ...

    by The Wolf at the Door

    Batman was treated by Nolan as if he really existed as a human being, not as a comic book construct market-tested to appeal to as many comic book fans as possible while still being palatable to the general public. <p> Instead, Batman/Bruce Wayne is kind of an unpleasant guy to be around who's a phony to everyone he knows as Bruce Wayne and an out-of-control psychopath when he's Batman. (In other words, he's kind of just like Patrick Bateman of "American Psycho" with justice and order on his mind instead of mindless bloodshed.) His actions have motivations and they make sense -- he develops as a character and he's understandable, if not entirely relatable. <p> The villians also made sense, not in some contrived, shoe-horned way to make sure they conformed enough to the comic books to be recognizable, but rather in a "Huh, that actually DOES make sense" sort of way that doesn't depend on the comics as a backdrop to support all the defiance of logic and reality. So Crane is a prison psychologist who plays with drugs because he enjoys the power trip it gives him over big, beefy criminals who could easily overpower him. And Ras has delusions of cleansing humanity of all its corruption and disease because he's a fanatical idealogue a la Osama Bin Laden. And Joker is a sort of criminal's response to the breakdown in social order represented by Batman ... because once the police stop playing by the rules (by allowing a vigilante to run wild without Miranda rights or all that 'bullshit'), then the mob gets their own vigilatne to even the score. <p> The next Superman film, if it's going to follow in Nolan's footsteps, shouldn't worry on the one hand about shoe-horning in old, established characters from either the Donnor films or the comics. But on the other hand, it does need to consider how the society, how the city, how the PEOPLE would react in a believable manner to what was happening. <p> I mean, HOLY SHIT! A man can fly! He's an alien from another world! Aliens exist!!! Wouldn't this have at least a little bit of an impact on the city and the world besides folks wondering "Hey, when's that dude in the tights going to save me from this bank robber?" Gotham City REACTED to Batman in ways that were fascinating. I'd argue that Gotham City is the main character in the Dark Knight. That doesn't mean Metropolis should be the main character in a Superman sequel - whereas "Batman" is a sort of glorified crime drama in my eyes, "Superman" is more of a glorified love story, old-school Greek mythology style, of a god lost from another planet finding love with a mortal human. <p> Sure, I want to see a Brainiac character in the next film who's true to all the bad-assery that he's capable of being ... a TRUE threat to Metropolis (and maybe the human race as a whole). But I also want to see a Nolan-esque take that shows us (A) how the city reacts to these developments ... and (B) what it means to be a god in love with a mortal, forgetting for just a sec that this is SUPERMAN (tm) and LOIS LANE (tm) and instead considering them as two characters that need to make sense in their setting.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:53 a.m. CST

    I have to agree with the Harry one . . .

    by adiehardfanwithalethalweapon

    I nearly shat myself when I read that "dark and brooding" line from Robinov on comicresource. TDK's succes had nothing to do with "dark and boording." It had everything to do with some very talented people and an undertsanding of the material. Just when I began to think these armani wearing studio jerks had learned a little something, this idiot chimes in.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Nice try, Harry.

    by Knuckleduster

    But those WB fucks are still gonna do whatever their focus groups and test audiences and accountants tell them.<p> Someone at WB needs to read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:59 a.m. CST

    What if...

    by codymr

    For the Man of Steel they kill off Supes kid and James Marsden at the end of the first act. That gives Superman something to wrestle with internally (other then the whole "I am not one of them" angst. It was also bring things back to normal. That kid has the potential to be a real drag if the Singer version is made into a trilogy or more.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:59 a.m. CST

    If THOR is a success

    by Immortal_Fish

    Yeah, a longshot, but if rumors are true and 90% of the thing takes place in Asgard *and* it hits big... then there's no excuse at all not to do Wonder Woman using Perez's run as source material. Similar stuff on the surface where the casual movie goer is concerned, only with a gender switch. And it's all about girl powah these days.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:02 p.m. CST

    DC Movies

    by bravojo

    Oh my voice is but one grain of sand in an ocean of opinion, but I hope Harry, Warners, or anybody just reads this once to see what I am about to say: Wonder Woman - this movie would work if the origin is kept intact and the WHOLE movie centers around an epic battle and struggle for power on the island of Themyscira. Think clash of the Titans and 300 mixed together. It is only at the end that she is called upon to protect her people from man and we see the glimps of her going in to the world. As far as the look, I think you should really look at Alex Ross for inspiration. Her look in Justice and Kingdom Come are pretty awesome as far as armor. Green Lantern is a space epic as should be treated as such. I know this sounds crazy, but you should highly consider Dennis Quaid in the role of Hal Jordan. He would be perfect. The aging test pilot with nothing left to look foward to and being pushed in to a desk job is endowed with all the power in the world and the chance to have new meaning in his life. Enter Sinestro. The story writes itself pretty much. Sinestro once was the protector of Earth and found a power that has driven him to take Earth as his slave planet. Dennis quaid could knock this out of the park!!! Superman - Look at what Donner did right as far as tone, but that is all that should carry over. Luthor is wayyyyy under used before. Change that. Luthor is just a man, but he is the catalyst for bringing serious threat to Superman. Remember he is out to get Superman, not man kind. He actually thinks he is the savior on mankind from this alien who has invaded his earth!!! Darkseid, Braniac, Metal-o, it all is spawned from the ever scheeming and genius, Luthor. Aquaman- ??? Flash - This could be a great movie for a light hearted tale for the family. Sounds like they were on to something with David Goyer. Hope that materializes. Well, I hope I didn't bore you too much. Really the maing things to take out of my post is treat WW as an epic period peice. And Dennis Quiad IS Hal Jordan.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST

    The Wolf at the Door

    by codymr

    Great words. SR did have a bit of what you are talking about near the end when the people of Metropolis thought Supes was going to die in hospital... but there was not nearly enough. I agree that Gotham was a character in TDK. You make a great point.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST

    I always laugh when people talk of how "dark" Batman is.

    by Knuckleduster

    Just because he doesn't dress like a boyscout. At heart, Superman and Batman are very much the same: They don't want to see people get hurt or killed. Batman doesn't kill, remember. The Punisher is fuckin dark. That guy has issues. Batman's mostly scary, but not much darker than Superman, really. <p> Actually, I wish some filmmaker would take an in-depth look at the Superman psyche, because he's actually incredibly "dark", isolated and complex (read Kingdom Come).

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:09 p.m. CST

    To those of you amazed at Hollywood stupidity:

    by Rev. Slappy

    The big studios were founded and run by people who were movie people. That is no longer the case. The big studios are run by people who floated to the top of giant multinational corporation. The people running the studios simply do not get it. And they don't see Dark Knight as a great film because of it's quality, they see Dark Knight as a great film because it's made a ton of money.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Huh ... this could be a pretty cool idea for Wonder Woman

    by The Wolf at the Door

    And it could give a period "Captain America" a run for its money ... <p> The scene opens with Nazis landing on a beach on a Mediterranean island that they believe will give them a strategy advantage in Africa. The island is uncharted and appears to be uninhabited, but in fact results in a massive battle with Amazonians with superhuman strength and Greek-era weapondry. Think sword and horseback versus rifle and tank! It's '300' meets WWII. And the film ends with a particularly vicious Amazonian woman, having seen much of her island decimated, walking across a battle field strewn with bodies to find yet another invader on the horizon ... branding an American flag. Diana's mother grabs her shoulder before she has a chance to raise her sword in aggression and says to her, "I have a feeling these men are not the same, perhaps we should see what they want. blah blah blah, I'm sending you with them to be our emissary -- we are no longer isolated on our island, or whatever." <p> Really, anything that ultimately builds to a live-action NEW FRONTIER ... that's what I wouldn't mind seeing, if they're gong to go the whole "DC Universe" route.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:20 p.m. CST

    Spot on, codymr

    by The Wolf at the Door

    And not just because you agree with me (snark) -- that scene with Superman in the hospital was my favorite. I'd venture to say it's the one scene in the film, besides the opening credits, that REALLY nailed the potential grandiosity of Superman. I love how all the hospital equipment just sparked and exploded when it touched Superman, and how everyone stopped and stared as Superman fell from the sky. THAT'S what I'm talking about, the "HOLY SHIT, we have no idea what's going on, who this guy is, or what to do with him" sensation. What to do with a god in your midst? <p> I'm a supported of SR, but it kills me that they didn't follow up stronger on Lex Luthor's best line in the whole film, "Gods are people who fly around in tights and don't share their powers with the world." Something like that. THAT touched on the mythic purportions of Superman for me ... and that's where I'd see room for movie sequels. <p> And am I the only one who caught the parallel scenes between BB and SR? The "falling" scenes? Young Bruce Wayne falls down the well and finds himself surrounded by darkness and fear ... having to overcome it, whereas young Clark Kent falls through the roof of the barn and floats? Come on, that was DIRECT! Dark Knight did a perfect job in my mind of showing what happens when you confront that darkness ... the Superman movies still need to step up and show us what happens when you can fly instead.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:20 p.m. CST

    A few things

    by jsm1978

    Luthor should NOT be a villain in the new Superman, not even a supporting part. As someone pointed out, he has been the villain in all but one so far. We need a break from Luthor, particularly if they are rebooting the whole thing. Have Luthor in there, but at most some forshadowing for the future. Something like him looking at a newspaper and saying that something has to be done about Superman toward the end of the movie. <p> Whoever threw out the CG idea. I've thought about that some too. Then they wouldn't have to worry about recasting the characters once they're not longer interested or get to old for the part. The hero would still look the same, they'd just need a diff voice actor, which wouldn't be AS big of a deal. <p> The red, white, and blue isn't the problem with Wonder Woman, it's the fact that runs around in a bathing suit basically, and the whole "star spangled panties" thing. You could keep the basic look of the cosume, but have the top come up around her shoulders and give her pants. That would be much easier to take seriously. Or the "armored look" idea works too, given her background.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:21 p.m. CST

    deliciouscowbell well stated

    by Tthenomad

    I was wonder if anyone remembers what Harry post on his own board or are they like sheep to the slaughter.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Oh leave the poor guy alone...

    by jsm1978

    Politicians flip flop all the time, who's to say movie reviewers can't too?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:37 p.m. CST

    dirty dancing reference

    by lucid dreamstate

    swayze does have a way with words. remember in roadhouse when he says "you're too stupid to have fun"?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:37 p.m. CST

    I'll never understand those who disparage DC.

    by rbatty024

    Think of all the great epic stories like The Dark Knight Returns or Kingdom Come that have come out of their characters. Marvel has some great characters, but nothing on the level of epic storytelling that DC has. DC's characters are like the Greek Gods of superheroes. Warner Brothers needs to understand that.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Realistic Superman

    by A for Aristocrat

    Showing the impact of Superman would make a very interesting movie. Not just on how it would impact the world but how we would actually deal with it. Make the theme of the movie on if we could really accept someone that good. Since he looks human, alot of people would think he was lying when he said he is an alien. Some would fear him because they could never believe someone that powerful would use that power for good. Others would find every way possible to tear him down to their level. There is a big story there if someone was capable of tackling it. I figure if someone thought they could inspire people to be better in the real world by dressing up like a bat it would end up like TDK. But if someone that was the real deal and had the power to back it up came along, that would be an interesting story.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:04 p.m. CST

    DC has always sucked ass compared top Marvel

    by DarthJedi

    Why even bother with their crap main characters? Superman? Green Lantern? Wonder Woman? Martian Manhunter? Who the fuck is that? No wait, I don't give a rat's ass who that is. Yaaaaaawwwwwn. I'll stick to Marvel thanks.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:08 p.m. CST

    Hey they can call it SUPERMAN REBOOTS!

    by DarthBakpao

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Memo to Mr. Robinov: Superman is NOT dark and brooding.

    by Orbots Commander

    That's what fans rejected in Superman Returns. A Superman movie, while big and epic, should not be a dark and brooding affair; it should be light, frothy and have a 'gee-whiz' sense of wonder, like a late 70's Spielberg flick. In fact that's it: the tone for a Superman movie, should be half Donner's first movie, and half Close Encounters of the Third Kind. If you could get Peter Jackson to direct, I think he'd nail it.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:40 p.m. CST

    DC heroes

    by blah13

    Green Arrow - do the shipwrecked origin, keep him sardonic and extreme leftist. But also make him as cheerfully brutal as he was during Kevin Smith's run. And BLACK CANARY!! Too essential to Ollie's life to be left out. Wonder Woman - TOugh one. So much that could be done. Start on Themiscura (i know I spelled it wrong), show the training and explain why its important for her to go to man's world. Make Circe the villain, having her running wild in man's world, have Diana kill her, hence be banished for failing in her mission of controlling the situation while teaching man a better way. Green Lantern - Big Space Epic. This flick could be top gun meets Star Wars. Exploit the awesomest awesomes of the mythos. Kilowog, the Gaudians, Sinestro, hell, even introduce the concept of Parralax. And if Guy Gardener isn't in it, I would demand a refund. The FLash - First offf, Ryan Reynolds is the only Wally West. Play with the FLash legacy, do flashbacks. Intro Wally as the third in the line and have Jay Garrick in there as the 'Alfred' style character. Drop us in the middle of a fast-paced story where the rogues already exist and have always been a nuissance, until Cpt. COld enters the fray and organizes them. Along the way, intro a workable version of Prof. Zoom. Lotta banter, and blatantly steal the JLU scene of FLash talking to the Trickster about how he's off his meds. Martian Manhunter - He's alreadfy here, as John Jones, and he gets discovered after being exposed to fire. Have him tell the story of Mars and how he came to earth to his discoverer. Villain: last surviving white martian. Booster Gold - just make this movie, please. Quantom Leap meets The Time Machine meets Wall-E (Skeets) meets Lethal Weapon (Rip Hunter) meets the marketing department. Awesome! JLA movie? Villain: Darkseid. reason for formation? Planetary invasion.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    How the DC heroes should be realized

    by ninpobugei

    Superman...make it modern! Give us the real Lex Luthor (or Darkseid is an extremely awesome idea). And please, give him a costume worthy of the name. A Superman movie needs to be BIG...big effects, big scope...building to perhaps a more cosmic scope in future movies (JLA build-up?). Batman...keep going as they are, though 10-20 years from now I'd like to see a reboot more in keeping with the comics. Batman's skill and mental acuity are far and away above the average man. The current Batman movies, while good, really aren't the comic book version. Not bad, just different. I'd love to see a Batman movie set more in a present-time of comics. No new origin story. Everyone knows Batman, everyone knows about superheroes. So get him involved in real crime mysteries...big bat cave, criminal underworld sources, less gadgetry, disguises, bigger scope to his operation. Show the intelligence behind the mask, the physicality he's capable of outside the gadgets and money. The supreme martial arts ability and strategic fighting that make him capable of taking out just about anyone. It's not reinventing the wheel as there are SO many story arcs already in existence. Wonder Woman...needs to be a 30-ish-looking ass kicker with presence. The female version of Superman. Powerful, tall, olive skinned, muscular without looking like a pro-bodybuilder (or silicone princess). The look is all-important to making her believable. She should not wear a bathing suit, but armor! Women would look up to her (albeit fearfully), men would be attracted to her...until they stood next to her and became intimidated by her obvious power and presence. She has to be a diplomat, a warrior, the epitome of womanhood. Green fiction all the way; Abin Sir, the Oans, Sinestro, the GL Corp...and Hal Jordan. Yes! Just imagine the implications when Hal goes rogue in the second movie, dies, and gains redemption....and maybe he gains that redemption in the JLA movie! Hmmmm. His costume should have some substance to it (not a spandex leotard). There can be NO copping out on this one. Try to do a cheesy origin story without the grander sci-fi aspects of the character and you've ruined it. Captain Marvel...sounds like they got started moving in the right direction with hiring The Rock, but I think the whole "BIG" approach is a mistake. Sounds campy just thinking about it. And the idea that some kid suddenly thrown into the body of an adult superhero is going to take on - and win - against The Rock's Black Adam is laughable at best. I'd rather deal more with the magical side to him and the displacement of Captain Marvel from Billy Batson (and vice versa). His costume should be reflective of the newer comics (kind of a cross between a uniform and something a gladiator of old might have worn). The Flash - I'd like to see Barry Allen and Jay Garrick in a kind of epic movie set between different time periods. It would be different and bigger than the treatment Flash usually gets. He's too much of a 1-trick pony and so the story needs to be built around something more than a scientist gets hit by lightning/covered in chemicals and now (literally) runs around stopping criminals. Yawn. Aquaman...while this character is often derided when people consider an Aquaman movie, I think the obvious choice to beat that is to get into the Atlantis side of things. Making Aquaman a fish-out-of-water is kind of a played, tired concept and, again, could become too campy. Bringing in Atlantis and the concept of an advanced race of undersea mer people has grand implications (something Marvel should consider for Namor, as well). His costume shouldn't necessarily be all costume; I like the idea of scales so that he's not entirely human in appearance (after all, human skin can not take long-term submersion in water). Martian Manhunter...there's your brooding character. But at least this guy has something to be pissed about (the last of his kind; his whole world killed off; stranded with backward humans). Poor bastard. Cool powers, as well. I think the sci-fi angle could certainly be played up; he's just the guy to protect his adopted home world from an alien invasion. Green Arrow...not a lot to say about this one. I like the "SUPERMAX" approach. If that doesn't move forward, Green Arrow would have to be a darker, down and dirty movie. He fights in the streets. In the shadows. No superpowers, just his wits, archery & fighting skills, and some trick arrows. In the real world, that's really not much. I think of him a little like Dare Devil. I think his costume as-is would probably be okay, but hard to take seriously in a gritty street fight (though it could be a funny angle that he'd always have to defend looking like he was on his way to a costume ball...until he kicked the snot out of a few thugs and word got around...making it all the harder on him). Let's face it, though, that goatee can't fly in the real world for both his identities. There are numerous other characters of interest...Deadman, for instance, could be cool if they play up the magic and supernatural aspects. Firestorm...think Spiderman, but more science-based and bigger in scope. Hawkman/'ll get back to you on that one <lol>. Actually, don't set their story on Earth. Set it on Thanagar where they belong (or incorporate their introduction into the JLA movie...kind of like "Star Crossed" from the Justice League cartoon story arc). Atom...definitely like what they could do with him. Think "IDENTITY CRISIS". Elongated; Plastic Man...yes...but crazy as hell. Think the Wachowski brothers.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Re: DC Heroes

    by blah13

    Forgot Big BLue: Make him dark and brooding, have him kill, whine about being lonely, no costume, and he's the Punisher, too. Studio morons. How's about they make a Superman Movie about what it's like to be a god among mortals, and an immegrant, in fact, why don't they just watch the animated series and JLu and do that Superman exactly. Also, make Luthor f'n Luthor! Cast someone like Alec Baldwin as Lex. Talented, dark, charming, intelligent. that's what lex needs to be. and set him up with more than one villain, have Lex create Bizarro. Or use brainiac. And for the love of God, let Supes punch something!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern, Superman, and The Flash could work...........

    by crackerfarmboy

    Who gives a fuck about Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter though? When it comes down to it, aside from Batman, DC's heroes just aren't as good as Marvel's.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST

    From Camp to Psychological Thriller

    by Zola

    I think Robinov is on to something, and the direction he chooses to take DC's characters is correct. Michael Uslan and Chris Nolan have utterly transformed and evolved the Batman myth in ways I only dreamed of. For the first time, The Joker was a creature to be feared in the most primal way, perhaps in the same vein as the uncomfortable stirrings we felt when Hannibal Lecter first graced the screen. The realistic world the franchise is set is one which Warner can build around other characters in the DC Universe. It's time for a Superman film to face the primal isses which face we mortals each day. A psychological expression of the Superman myth is long overdue in cinema. Now I don't believe Superman the character is dark and brooding, and perhaps Robinov's comments have been taken the wrong way. What I'd like to see the Man of Steel face is, well, the real world, face real problems, express real emotion. If future DC films can touch our primal emotions, as THE DARK KNIGHT did, evolving the characters and the world around them into something we can connect with, then the future is actually quite bright for Warner, not dark and brooding. The first time, with THE DARK KNIGHT and BATMAN BEGINS, filmmakers didn't patronize the audience, but honored our intelligence and imagination.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Crackerfarmboy...are you shitting me?

    by ninpobugei

    Whoa! Get a grip!! DC heroes have had a hell of a run and continue to have grand story arcs. I love Marvel, but let's face it, nothing they've ever done competes with IDENTITY CRISIS, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, KINGDOM COME, or CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. They did SECRET WARS, which I liked a lot, but for every SECRET WARS there's a CIVIL WAR, which - sorry, but it's true - was nothing more than a marketing scheme to get everyone to buy a million different comics just to make it through a story that didn't end much different than we might have predicted when it started.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:13 p.m. CST


    by jedimast3r

    should be the "team-up" movie WB wants to make.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:48 p.m. CST

    by Waff

    DC needs to forget this dark superman and concentrate on GL and Flash. GL is a multiple movie arc and spinoff series (GL Corps) just waiting to happen. Flash is a perfect lead in to JSA, Teen Titans/Young Justice and Crisis. It won't happen but one can dream.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:50 p.m. CST


    by brandon11

    how incredibly sick could a Sandman movie be if done properly? maybe guillermo del torro...well i guess neil geiman(i forget the spelling) would probably do it. i dunno. thoughts on a morpheus?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Why not have like have cult of krypton...

    by emeraldboy

    movie. In the beginning of the movie Clark kent is kidnapped and taken from earth and is brainwashed by Zor-el. when kal-el returns to earth he is different. He is colder, less compassionate. Zor-el and lex luthor have hatched a plan to rule the world. Zor el then kills lex luthor and plots to destroy the earth and rebuild krypton in its place. Zor-el and the god like Kal-el will rule. Supermans cousin turns up. and in the end of the movie. Zor -el orders Kal el to kill his cousin. But she frees him from his control of Zor el. Zor el escapes and over the next films Kal el tries to track him down. Clark has to face angry citizens. and as punishment hace to rebuild earth. Supergirl Stays and helps hunt down zor el.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    because that is rediculous

    by brandon11

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Infinate Crisis is the world worst Retcon

    by Phategod2

    I'm just saying

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST

    The Green Lantern..

    by dirty john

    ...would be awesome if done on a huge scale like Star Wars. (obviously with George Lucas not anywhere near it.) Just go balls out crazy with Hal's training or the recruitment of Jon Stewart.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Harry Nails It

    by Grinning White Skull

    Perfect, Harry. I've worked in this industry for a while now and I can tell you the execs just DON'T GET IT when it comes to adapting comic books. They jump on trends concerning genre until that screws up a project and then declare the genre dead. The only thing that is dead is their brains.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Make a Superman movie set in the 30's - Uberman

    by my liege

    It shouldn't be SET in the 30s, but it should LOOK that way not necessarily with it's technology, but with it's fashion and aesthetics.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Superman vs. Hollywood

    by sanzaru

    As told by Kevin Smith:

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:37 p.m. CST


    by my liege

    Whatever happened the the Wonder Woman movie? I rememeber a year or so or ago, the forums were shitting themselves in anticipation after they heard about a totally rad script that was set in WWII

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:39 p.m. CST


    by my liege

    I imagine we'll see it spring back into life when Captain America rakes in the green with it's own WWII era film.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST


    by Dip Dipshits Laameasssss Song

    Actually, dark and brooding is *exactly* what Spider-Man should be like while under the influence of the black suit. Raimi got that part right. What he got wrong was the execution. Instead of having Peter actually doing evil things to show the audience that he's evil, Raimi had Peter changing his hairstyle, acting like a sleazy pimp, and dancing like The Mask in a nightclub. OMG TIHS GUY IZ EVIL AND DANJUROUS!!1! Balls. The most evil thing he did was push his girlfriend to the floor. (Yeah, he also threw a bomb in his friend's face, but since they were enemies at that point, it doesn't really count.)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Superman Done Right = Birthright.

    by joker2thief

    WB wants to reboot Superman, I say go for it. Swing for the fences. Seriously, we haven't seen a Superman origin story done right since S:TM and that left a lot of room for some spaces to be filled in. If WB really wants a Superman origin story with SCALE, ACTION, and a SATISFYING 3RD ACT for a change, they should just do a Zach Snyder and use Superman: Birthright as a storyboard and run with it. It's not broodingly dark, though, so they'll probably be digging out Tim Burton's script instead. Fuck.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Re: Dip

    by joker2thief

    I agree about the black suit, but the most frustrating thing about that movie was that the FUCKING KID'S CARTOON DID IT BETTER! Pete wearing the suit in the cartoon wasn't picking up chicks and dancing down the street with messy hair. He was picking up Cop cars, throwing them at the police, and holding criminals by the throat and about to drop them off buildings. He was being the VILLAIN that JJJ had been painting him as in the papers for the past few years. The reason Spiderman 3 sucked wasn't because they decided to bring in a dark element into the story, it was because they didn't trust their own material and didn't take it where the comics did, and the writing in the 3rd act was arguably the worst I've seen in recent history. I mean, Christ some of that dialogue was horrible. I've said it for years... they should re-cast everyone, skip the origin, and do a new trilogy based on the Clone Saga and make it as dark as hell, just like that story was. Spiderman can be dark, anyone can, but they have to act HOW THAT CHARACTER WOULD ACT IN A BAD SITUATION. You could certainly put Superman, the big boyscout himself, in the middle of an actual warzone, say somewhere in Darfur, and show how this righteous, squeeky clean hero would act when confronted by sheer evil inhumanity. Imagine if Superman showed up in the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan. What would he do? Just because it isn't easy to write, doesn't mean it can't be done... but you can't sacrifice the integrity of the character just because you want to "go dark." Anyone who thinks differently, just wait for Frank Miller's take on The Spirit opens this year. Ouch.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:26 p.m. CST

    agree totally with Harry

    by Boborci

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Missing story?

    by Dasinfogod

    Am I crazy or did I see a story posted on AICN about Tim Burton visiting ILM to prep a new Superman flick? It was up for a few minutes then disappeared. There were even a few talkbacks posted, so I'm guessing it was up for a bit... Anyone got a clue?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:30 p.m. CST

    "do a new trilogy based on the Clone Saga and make it as dark as

    by my liege

    Jesus Christ, it's like you WANT Spider-Man to fail.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Some of you TDK detractors are such cunts

    by TheLastCleric

    It’s fine if TDK didn’t resonate with you but for the love of god, can you please stop saying that it was Ledger’s death that made the film such a success? Do you people even realize how fucking stupid that theory is? Ledger was well known but hardly a box office A-lister and even if his premature death did spark interest in the film I seriously doubt it added 100 or 200 million dollars to the box office. It’s really narcissistic and petty to claim Ledger’s death is the only reason the film has been a commercial and critical success but I guess several of you subscribe to the Devin Faraci philosophy, which states, “If I didn’t like it, it must suck.” Seriously, get the fuck over yourselves and move on.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST


    by emeraldboy

    If you put supes in a real life situation. I can now hear the counter argument about not making superhero films topical starting off all over again.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Re: my liege

    by joker2thief

    Haha I know, I know... I was one of about 5 people who thought it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, and I still think it's one of a few stories that would benefit GREATLY from the chop-job that gets done on stories to make them fit into a 2-hour movie. In all though, I think the story is sound, if it was broken down into Movie 1: Spiderman is told his life's a lie at the end, and this other dude is the real deal. Movie 2: Follows both individuals and the public as Spidey works for the bad guys, comes to his senses and walks away, and the clone tries to fill the shoes he thinks he deserves, and Movie 3: GG reveals it all as a mind-fuck to destroy Spidey's life, Spidey has to put on the suit again for the first time in a year, teams up with the clone spiderman and, of course, the clone dies in the end. Sounds wonky, but I think it could work. Better than Forman as Venom, anyways.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:47 p.m. CST

    The Wolf at the Door

    by codymr

    It is now quite obvious to me that you are some kind of genius! I agree 100% with what you are saying... And according to Singer, if he can get MAN OF STEEL into production, that is what he will do. I think he is quoted as saying that he wants to do a WRATH OF KHAN on the sequel.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Re: my liege

    by joker2thief

    And we get to see Scarlet Spider, which was pretty fucking cool, even if you did hate the story.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Did anyone just see Bob Orci agree with

    by Phategod2

    Harry. Hi Bob how are things. Hows the show with JJ stacking up.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 4:56 p.m. CST

    this too little late to calm people down, but...

    by I87D

    Harry did leave out the key sentence: "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it" which the exec used to qualify his "dark, brooding" statement. Sure, it takes some faith that he interprets "the extent" the same way you do, but it's disingenuous of authors of this cite to leave that out, making his quote more of a blanket statement than intended. carry on...

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 5:18 p.m. CST


    by my liege

    Heh, I didn't think the clone saga was THAT bad. I just think 3 Spidey films of doom of despair would be the wrong way to go about it.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon

    by INWOsuxRED

    is better than any of the Rami movies. They get Spider-Man way more than the heads at Marvel. Get those folks to work on a movie, just like you want to get the Dini folks to work on the live action DC movies. I wish these studios would green-light scripts or creative teams, rather than forcing those two things into a greenlit property.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 5:51 p.m. CST

    Superman & Wonder Woman film...

    by marlow2

    The next film should have Diana prince being a foreign news correspondent who visits the daily planet. This sets up a love triangle between Supes, Lois and Wonderwoman. Have supes really consider hooking up with Wonder Woman...his equal in every way. In the end he chooses Lois... she needs him more. Lex is an evil Bruce Wayne who was the smartest man in the world and earth's savior until the boy scout showed up and stole his thunder...Lex is more behind the scenes like Ras al Ghul in Batman Begins. He summons Braniac and Doomsday from the outer reaches of space and claims that Supes brought this terror on earth. The people of the world/metropolis don't know wether to fear supes or trust him until the end of the film. Supes teams with Wonder Woman to fight off these major villains. Have it be a multi-character story. There were so many characters in TDK, it could work in MOS. Wonder Woman's origin is explained in a flashback. WW only works within another story. I don't think she can handle her own franchise.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 5:58 p.m. CST


    by slfricky

    Yeah, I think any DC character MOVIE could be done Dark, and the term here might mean the story and characterisations be more sophisticated and complex, as opposed to something like the Fantastic Four movies, which I would not describe as at all Dark. A Superman movie can be dark without making Superman dark by making everything around him more heavy and foreboding (the villains, the world he lives in with all the problems he realises not even he can solve) and him being the hope for it all. And even it does make him darker, it's not like there haven't been dark Superman stories. Kingdom Come's Superman was a much darker version of him, but still quintissentially Superman.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:03 p.m. CST

    The Dini Timm Thing can't be argued now

    by Phategod2

    Look, the cartoons where good, great even, But Really I wish people would Stop comparing them to the movies, especially Batman. Batman can not be done like TAS. TAS take place in this Distant dimension where you can't tell what year it is and Batman is annoyingly invinsible. IM not saying Timm and Dini cant do live action movie but I think they start from something alot less risky before giving them a $100 million budget to do a superhero movie so lets agree to let that pipe dream die for now.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:09 p.m. CST


    by Larry Sellers

    Not just the weaving of characters together through films, but the tone shift to capitalize on what people responded to in The Dark Knight. Look at Iron Man and Hulk. Released within two months of each other, both successful in every sense of the word, and still remain DIFFERENT MOVIES. Iron Man/Stark is a genius millionaire playboy finding his conscience and taking accountability for his actions...and still enjoying being a genius millionaire playboy. Hulk was the more brooding of the two, but even then it FIT because Banner is being pursued by the military, can't see the woman he loves, and could lose control at anytime. Two different tones, two different films, but in the same universe. The Dark Knight worked because the theme was dark. Pushing moral boundaries, corruption v anarchy, redefining what Batman IS in this film series. Those things are not Superman. They aren't Green Lantern. They aren't fucking Wonder Woman. They're the consequences of the actions of a vigilante who's probably bitten off way more than he can chew. Superman Returns was angsty enough. We don't need to see an "angry god", which is the direction this article seems to indicate. We need Superman with less angst. Something to counter the darkness of Batman. It seems like the rebellion against Schumacher's films is pushing all the way to the other side of the spectrum. Is it that hard to find a good medium? Just take the material seriously and RESPECT IT and at the same time maintain the comic book flashiness when it's called for. WB needs to look at Iron Man as well for how a good comic book film is made. The Dark Knight should most certainly NOT be the template on which every DC adaptation should be based. Within the next decade we'll be right back to wonderful neon camp. Fuck it all.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:16 p.m. CST


    by javery56

    they better let Singer finish what he started, i dont think ill be able to watch a reboot knowing what Singer could of made. I know a lot of people didnt like RETURNS, im not one of those people, and i think Singer was setting up for an awsome action packed sequal. And by the way.. i can not understand what the new Hulk reboot had that the old one didnt. I really like both films, but i cant understand why they would reboot it with THAT film, there wasnt much more action in it than th eprevious version, and isnt that what all the complaints werea about.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Supes should be a light..

    by datoole083

    in a dark world. he should be saving ppl with a smile on his face. he needs villians that are sick sadistic and powerful not bumbling (ie darkseid, braniac, zod)..lex needs to be GQ a renesance man who is furious at this savior from the sky..they could bring in authority-type 'heroes' who want to kill the bad guys and contrast that with supes approach and show why supes is a true hero, while commenting on the whole turning heroes dark movement at the same time.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Stick with Man of Steel...

    by Barney_Tabasco

    Come on WB, stick with Man of Steel, with Singer, Routh etc. Keep all the great elements of Superman Returns, add more action, a powerful and serious villain (Darkseid would be great) and let Singer do the X-Men 2 thing. Crank it up. DON'T REBOOT SUPERMAN. You have a great franchise on your hands guys - don't forget, SR made MORE money than Batman Begins and look what happened with Dark Knight!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Darkseid Superman for sure

    by brobdingnag

    but Routh is a lightweight who was hired only because Singer wanted to fuck him just like many straight directors have done and screwed up movies. Dump Signer and Routh start from scratch. Personally I think Peter Jackson would do an amazing Superman/Darkseid, especially after seeing what he did with depression era New York in King Kong. Get Jackson/WETA and hire someone for Superman who can actually act.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Iron Man was the real wake-up call

    by Silverglade

    Iron Man's success. DC knows their franchises and they know Marvel's. Then out of left field, Marvel takes a lesser known character and makes a mint. That was a huge eye-opener about taking risk. Now Marvel has a broader list of franchises, leaving DC with really just 2 that keep being repeated in various forms. To make things more challenging, Marvel is now involving their characters in other hero's films, like the Hulk. <p>I find it funny the first response is... go back to more Superman again. Sure, they will make some other characters now that they have the confidence based on Iron Man. I will see them and hope they are quality.<p>The things DC needs to remember are: no camp (there is a difference between humor and camp), take the material seriously and respect it as the "new mythology" it is, hire good writers and directors who care for the story. Chris Nolan has his brother Jonah and David Goyer - who care a lot about the character. Favreau cares a lot about Iron Man. Get good people. Not whoever's popular or cheapest or known for making big explosions.<p> Iron Man woke them up. TDK kicked their asses into gear. The next several years will be fun. :)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Frank Miller's SUPERMAN!

    by JMFabianoRPL

    Make it happen, WB! I would SO buy pre-order tickets for 20 showings. So long as I thought Supes would introduce himself as "the goddamn Superman," and go on to call Jimmy Olsen a retard. And oh yeah, Lois, Lana, Supergirl = whoreswhoreswhoreswhoreswhoreswhores ;-)

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Marc Singer, Chris Nolan, realism and World's Finest

    by GourmetMayonnaise

    The frustrating thing is that Marc Singer is perfectly capable of giving fantasy stories a realistic feel as he proved with X-men. Had he not had such a hard-on for Richard Donner and instead focused on making a Superman film rather than a Richard Donner film, we would have had a universe that would mesh pretty well with what Nolan created which would set up a World's Finest movie perfectly. Both directors have similar approaches to creating super hero movies. What a waste of time this has been.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Marc Singer ... from V and Beastmaster???

    by Geekgasm

    You mean Bryan Singer

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:42 p.m. CST

    "Routh is a lightweight who was hired only because Singer wanted

    by Geekgasm

    FYI, that's an example of what I mean by homophobia.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:42 p.m. CST

    I stand corrected.

    by GourmetMayonnaise

    What a jackass I am. In my defense, I do have a few Boddingtons in me.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:46 p.m. CST


    by truthmaster

    From the people who thought Steel, Catwoman, and Batman & Robin were GREAT ideas, comes a Justice League movie...Dark Knight style!!! Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter sit around bitching and moaning for 2 hours! Batman does not appear. He's too depressed. YAY, Warner Brothers!!!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:48 p.m. CST


    by GourmetMayonnaise

    That's not homophobia. That's being a retarded moron. World of difference.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:49 p.m. CST

    OK, serious post time. I think AICN needs to have another talk

    by JMFabianoRPL

    ...after all, Harry making WB aware of the complaints from fans was what curbed some of the anti-canon things about the Abrams script, did it not? Oddly enough, don't the TDK detractors criticize that movie for being "too dark"? Not that I agree... Now...if "dark" actually was their (generalized) way of saying "serious," then I'll have an open mind. I didn't hate SReturns, but thought it was actually too much of a Donner tribute. People, we've been through the original Crisis (and now several more)...Superman and his universe have gone under numerous changes since. Personally, the mainstream Superverse I want to see is closer to the one we saw in Bruce Timm's DCAU. On the other hand, if they are being literal and it means making Supes into an emo anti-hero who is TOTALLY EXTREME AND EEEEEEEEEDGY, forget it. (Unpleasant thoughts of Nicolas Cage as an ugly black apparatus, as detailed in Superman vs. Hollywood. I wanted Tim Burton's hide for even THINKING of that idea! Yes WB back away from that script draft, NOW) In short, please WB, prove that you didn't just luck out when you signed Chris Nolan and that you're no longer the same old Schumacher/Catwoman/Steel company we've dreaded for years, just having stumbled into a few decent films now. (trying to rush Justice League and threatening at one point to make Jack Black GL doesn't help that cause, BTW) Maybe DC needs to somehow get the creative control Marvel has? If that's even possible?

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 7:55 p.m. CST

    BTW if the full subject didn't appear last time...

    by JMFabianoRPL said "AICN needs to have another talk with WB" Oh yeah, and if they do TDK style for all the movies, that will make it cliche and eventually a joke. And next you'll see TDK style being parodied in "Porno Movie" or whatever witless spoof movie is coming next. Which it doesn't deserve, as TDK WAS good.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:19 p.m. CST

    If we're throwing directors around...

    by tbransonlives

    How about Cuaron? His Harry Potter was the best of the series and come on, Children of fucking Men. The Warners should do everything in their power to get him to take on one of those properties.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:29 p.m. CST

    WB reads AICN

    by richjb77

    We make and break movies. When sites like this bash a movie before it comes bombs. They can't all be stupid. Some young up kid read all these posts and will let the powers to be now that the general public is crapping on their ideas...

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:35 p.m. CST

    Why can't a comic just be a comic?

    by hyattmarc

    Comic books are a great medium and most of the characters people are discussing can only exist within 24 brightly coloured pages. A flash movie could only visualise his powers as either a red streak "flashing" past or showing him moving with everything slowed down. That was great in Smallville season 1 but tired now. Even the comic books are marred by the exposition neccesary to explain when he uses his powers to vibrate his molecules or create a counter vortex against a tornado (another version of the comic book trope "reverse the polarity"). Do you want to see a Green Lantern movie with a bright green fist emanating from the ring to catch the bad guy or creating a Green sports car. Marvel has had the biggest success in films due to having a more believable setting for their characters, whilst DC has always had the cosmic/multiverse backdrop which makes it harder to compress into a movie. TDK created a believable world for Batman to exist in. Whether it's Ant-Man or Of Mice and Men it should only be put on the screen if you can tell the story in that medium. Comic book movies are never canon and exist as a one shot/elseworlds type story and that's the way it should be. They get to pick and choose which aspects of the characters history to incorporate without re-inventing the basic origins and motivators of the character.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 8:39 p.m. CST

    How about just making good films?

    by zooch

    Going dark? Fine. As long as it's a good compelling piece of cinema Superman can wear black and eyeliner for all I care. Okay maybe not that far but you get the idea.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Peter Parker wasnt "DARK" Or "Brooding" In SPIDERMAN 3.

    by GenreBoy

    There is nothing dark about dancing around like some 70's saturday night fever reject. And wearing Eyeliner and have your hair combed forward doesnt signify "Brooding" harry. Thats not why it was rejected.. It was rejected because it was ridiculous and lacked any of the meaning or context Spiderman 2 completely took everything he learned and flushed it down the toilet.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:08 p.m. CST

    More importantly..Why hasnt anyone called Geoff Johns to write s

    by GenreBoy

    No. Seriously.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Lastly..For the Green Lantern Film

    by GenreBoy

    Hal Jordan-Nathan Fillion an Joss whedon should write an direct. Now That would be AWESOME.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:12 p.m. CST


    by hyattmarc

    Superman Returns was a really good movie, not great, not amazing but really good. Routh was excellent and I loved the continuation of Donners world but it does need to change. Routh should return, he recreated everything Christopher Reeve made great about the role. He fumbled and mumbled convincingly and looked the part when he stood up straight. The problem with all the Superman movies is they never got Lex right and depended too much on Kryptonite. Lex Luthor is one of the smartest, richest and most powerful people on the planet, Superman by benefit of the sun has god like powers and is always the boy scout. Lex argues that Superman holds man back but really Lex would rule the earth if the positions were swapped. Superman, the eternal boy scout and optimist, uses his powers to help mankind and by doing so inspires them. By Lex using Kryptonite in every movie they weaken Superman and bring them down to his level. They need to have him face someone with the same kind of power. Darkseid is great in the comics but Apokolips and New Gods takes too much explaining. Supes got bloodied in Returns, Lex can clone him (Red Son Bizzarro) or as mentioned Braniac can be introduced as the destroyer of Krypton. Just look at the latest issue of Action for the kind of awe-inspiring shot of Brainiacs arrival we could have. Routh definitely is Kal-El, Clark Kent and Superman, all he needs is a worthy enemy.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:20 p.m. CST

    DC = TV

    by Trusty

    They can flesh things out better there and save their crappy 1/2 network at the same time. And yes, simply because there are some movies going on doesn't mean audiences can't tell the difference. DC needs to go to well-written serial television and start over.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern

    by Silverglade

    Have the movie open with him motionless, wide-eyed, hair flaming green, suspended in space, floating. In a voice-over of what his mind is thinking, he is in disbelief over what events recently transpired that he had dealt with. He wonders about his future. The ring pulsing. Suddenly there is an explosion on a nearby moon and he comes to his alert senses. He dashes to the spectacle to deal with whatever is making the noise. Forget Earth. Just have GL out there kicking ass in space. Maybe remembering Earth with fond thoughts. At the film's end, he returns to it.. and runs into someone familiar to him...

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:24 p.m. CST


    by hyattmarc

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:36 p.m. CST

    "Darker" takes on the JLA

    by Wyatt

    So we've already got the dark and brooding Batman, which is par for the course and actually fits well for the character and his mythos. As for the other six, here are my takes, taking into account WB's apparent wish to go with a "darker" tone: Superman - do this "Incredible Hulk" style - don't completely blow off "Superman Returns", but at the same time, do away with the less popular elements (superkid, primarily). In my opinion, to truly humanize Superman and make him a more sympathetic character, you need to use a villain who's even less relatable than the Man of Steel. Doomsday and Darkseid spring immediately to mind, but I see either of those an even better sequel to a good first movie (a la Dark Knight to Batman Begins). With that said, I'd use Geoff Johns' current take on Brainiac - cold, emotionless, traversing the galaxy collecting DNA samples and then wiping out the planets they are from in a quest to become the supreme being in the universe. Wonder Woman - Diana needs to be a complete fish out of water - no civilian identity, just Princess Diana of Themyscira, who comes to New York to appeal to the U.N. as a pre-war emissary from the Amazonians. If you use a multinational corporation as the villain, and have them dumping waste in the waters around Themyscira, you could even work in a "Tony Stark in the Hulk" cameo for Aquaman. As for the villain, I'd use a secondary villain from Diana's rogues gallery, and highlight instead the conflict between Diana and the rest of her people, who are prepared to wage war on mankind. Really highlight the dichotomy of the Wonder Woman character - in her homeland, she's one of the more rational, level-headed citizens, but in our world, she's perceived as being extremely blunt and almost hostile, even though she's attempting to broker peace. Martian Manhunter - Make the John Jones civilian identity black and deal with the racism that the Martian Manhunter faces in his everyday life and his superhero one. That's one aspect that I think has been greatly ignored in the comics to this point - Superman is an alien, but because he looks just like the rest of earth's population, he's a beloved figure, while the Martian Manhunter is green and has a pointed head, so he's immediately met with distrust and is seen less favorably than the Kryptonian. This would require a very, VERY good writer to pull off capably, though. Green Lantern - I'm assuming this'll be Hal, so a simple origin story in the vein of Iron Man would work nicely. Show Hal's training with Sinestro (a la Bruce and Ra's in Batman Begins) and have them take on some intergalactic threat at the end of the movie after spending a lot of the movie foreshadowing the eventual rift between Hal and Sinestro over ideology. Flash - Barry or Wally? Either way, you can take this movie in two directions - keep it grounded as a more suspense-style thriller and play up the police background, or use the most awesome Rogue's Gallery in comics in some way, shape, or form. Either way, this is probably the hardest movie for DC to screw up, because Wally is their Peter Parker, easily the most relatable guy on the entire JLA team. Aquaman - Yeah, I'm not totally sure how this one would work, unless you play off the story I suggested for Wonder Woman and build to a war between the Atlanteans and the rest of the world. Whereas the war with the Amazons was diverted, at the end of the Aquaman movie, the Atlanteans appear poised to fire their first strike, leading directly into the JLA movie, which would ideally appear a couple months later. So that the Aquaman movie gets a resolution, have the storyline revolve around a usurper who turns the Atlanteans against Aquaman, only for Arthur to eventually win back his throne. By that point, though, the seeds are sown, and it's going to take the entire JLA to stop the war on the surface. Eh, just some thoughts. I think it's pretty obvious why I'm not a Hollywood writer.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Just make Sgt Rock dammit.

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    We don't need another weak Superman film.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:44 p.m. CST


    by hyattmarc

    I loved Tim Burtons Batman ( i was 14) bu Nolan has created a world where Batman exists and we will pay to see it. Is it; is it believable....yes, but we still haven't seen the worlds greatest detective yet. To be fair the comics haven't shown much detective work either beyond asking Oracle or putting data in the Batcomputer. The comics have positioned Batman as the master strategist though, always 4 steps ahead of everone and willing to do what's needed. Batman to me is summed up in The New Frontier when he says to the martian manhunter "It took me a $70,000 sliver of meteor to stop the one in Metropolis, with you all i need is a cent for a box of matches". Batman knows, and if he needs to he will fuck you up. Until the detective or the strategist are put in a movie then there is no point putting Batman in a JLA movie. What planet threatening disaster would need the JLA to depend on a husky voice and batarangs.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 9:58 p.m. CST


    by JTStyler

    Robinov talk about how SR disappointed and how plans for Supes v Bats have fallen through. He then says that the plan is to reintroduce Superman with no regard to a previous Batman and Superman film. Note the use of "and" NOT "or". Guys, he's talking about any previous drafts of Supes v Bats, he is not talking about all the previous Supes films. Reintroducing Supes could mean anything - complete reboot, semi-sequel, Incredible Hulk style. Hold your horses, SR-lovers and haters, there is plenty more mileage in this story yet.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST


    by Wants Vaders Executor

    Haven't read the article, haven't read one single comment. All I'm here for today is simply to proclaim to the world that I just finished seeing a double feature at the cinema of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. It's my first time with TDK, it just got released here in Germany on Tuesday. Both films are great, but I'm a little bit disappointed in how much potential TDK wasted. Ledger/The Joker is pure magic, but instead of focusing on him and what else works in the movie, they cram in Two-Face and even Scarcrow at the beginning. TDK is one fine example of a film which simply is too stuffed. Too much. And that's a shame, because those things that work for me, Joker, Dent (pre-Two-Face), the casting in general, are great. It's half past 5 in the morning here in Germany, so that's good night from me.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Geoff Johns as a consultant

    by datoole083

    DC needs its own studio division to work on super hero properties like marvel and also like marvel they need to consult the writers who actually write the comics..WB needs to hire guys like geoff johns and kurt busiek to get to the core of what superman i said b4 supes needs to be the hero who MUST find a way in the darkest of circumstances..heres my plot for the new supes movie..dont spend alot of time on the origin..quicky recap it in an opening montage at the begining..lex luthor is a swave renesance man billionaire scientist who is ruthless in pursuit of progress..lex corps is genetically egineering a team of heroes (ie infinity inc in 52) they are ruthless and kill bad guys makin supes appear obsolete however when a real serious big bad like braniac or darkseid appears..lexs super team cant beat them..supes is put in the moral crisis to kill or not to kill..theres lots of punches and explosion but in the end supes finds a way to defeat the enemy and lex WITOUT killing makin the whol anti-hero thing worthless and showing supermans relevance

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:36 p.m. CST

    In the immortal words of Robert Downey Jr.

    by Blanket-Man

    Fuck DC.

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 10:38 p.m. CST

    maybe the wachowski bros could direct

    by datoole083

    they showed they could do a good supes from the first needs to focus on core cast roamntic tension between lois and clark..bring in lana..i think too they should do the whole clark and lex being friends as teens..its already been incorporated into dc continuity..makes the rivalry more personal..other ideas..could do the new krypton thing with kryptonians and Zod arriving to earth to invade for a 2nd film in rebooted franchise with supes torn between alliegence to earth and needs to be a well balanced mix of personal conflict and balls to the wall action

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:47 p.m. CST

    Screw Realistic ... Make a Myth!!!

    by darwindante601

    Instead of trying to take Supes and associates into the "gritty real world" why not get all Alan Moore and Grant Morrison-like and actually put us into Superman's world. You can still have dark themes, but you can also have stuff like The Bottle-City of Kandor, Krypto, a Fortress of Solitude that isn't sterile and empty (and that supervillains just can't walk right into) Bizarro-World, Mr. Mxyzptlk ... 70 years worth of comics, people ... Brainiac would be a cool villain, but someone who would be a real challenge to what Superman represents would be Manchester Black (& his "Elite") or Gog. Picture the Elite making a mockery of Superman and them having the big HIGH NOON showdown at the end! The Elite would be perfect ...a whole plethora of mutant-like powers being handled in ways that Superman would consider to be amoral. At one point, the public would even turn against Superman and embrace the Elite as hipper and more effective "heroes" Supes would get a chance to defend his virtues to both the inhabitants of Metropolis and the whole "dark and gritty" movie-going public. The story was in ACTION COMICS #775 and it's a great modern Superman story, filled with grandeur and fantasy ... bigger than life!!! The first Richard Donner movie is great ... an amazing start, that went nowhere with the tacky sequels! Keep the John Williams theme, MAYBE the crystal Kryptonian technology and Jor-El holograms ... but otherwise move ahead, willya?!!? For those of you who only see things in movie-terms ... cross THE INCREDIBLES with the Chris Nolan BATMAN-sensibilities and give us a Superman who can step up to the plate and be a whitebread, but NOT STALE BREAD!!!

  • Aug. 23, 2008, 11:52 p.m. CST

    Morrison is a hack. A one-trick-pony.

    by Uncle Stan

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:21 a.m. CST

    bring on Welling and Rosenbaum, but....

    by lynxpro

    As I've been saying for years, they need to bring aboard Welling and Rosenbaum, but then treat the *Smallville* back story through the lens of selective continuity. Like ignoring the death of Jonathan Kent, which was ordered by Warner Bros. Pictures so that the casual *Smallville* viewers wouldn't supposedly be confused when they went to see *Superman Returns* (to which they didn't see anyway). You also ignore the death of Lionel Luthor because his character - and John Glover himself - is too good to keep from the silver screen. You get rid of the meteor freak stuff and hone in on the John Byrne interpretation. You build up Luthor as the credible villain of the trilogy, but you have other villains serve the main course for the first two films. You go with Metallo, Zod, Lobo, or if it could be pulled off, Darkseid. And that my friends is the key to bringing Superman back into box office gold. But first, kick Singer off the project and return Routh back to Telemundo or whatever soap opera production company will still take him. Even better...send him to hang out with Gary Cherrone (sic) who was just like him in terms of an unfit stand-in replacement in another venue associated with a different Warner Bros. signed entity.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Hey, LastCleric, I'm a TDK detractor

    by necgray

    And I haven't once mentioned Ledger's death as having undue influence on the audience. The. Script. Is. Flawed. In several major ways that become more heinous the more people like you step up to blindly defend the damn thing. I'm not a cunt, buddy, I'm just a discerning filmgoer who is disappointed when otherwise intelligent fellow filmgoers become mindless droning zombies to a phenomenon with nary a criticism between them.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:50 a.m. CST

    The Epic of Gilgamesh is more epic.

    by necgray

    It's in the title.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:57 a.m. CST

    No way this will be read amongst all these talkbacks, but...

    by KCMOSHer

    ...I think I get what Harry's saying and can add to it. One thing Harry doesn't touch on that WB predictably misses is that you have to show a character's strengths, not focus on their weaknesses. Each hero, traditionally, has a weakness. But that's secondary. We don't care about kryptonite unless Superman is the most powerful being on the planet. We just haven't seen that since the very first Superman film by Donner. The only thing he couldn't do was be in two places at once, and even then he found a way around it (as stupid as it was). The initial Batman movies were all about style and never really had any reason to believe Batman was special in any way, beyond being a pretty tough fighter and having a ton of gadgets. What makes Batman powerful is the FEAR he wields. The gadgets and the prowess play second fiddle to his gigantic brain and his natural ability to out think his foes and use panic and terror to his advantage. The Nolan films get that 100%, so we love them. Stark's strengths are his engineering genius and his devil may care attitude. He's unpredictable. Just when you think you've got him in a corner, he does something brilliant and just a little crazy. He's an alcoholic and a womanizer...which makes him alone, and without a great sense of self-preservation, which makes him incredibly dangerous at the controls of a powerful creation like the Iron Man suit. If they take this angle on their films, Warner Bros will succeed at the box office. Focus on the strength of these characters: be it pathos (Martian Manhunter), burden of responsibility (Green Lantern), deep-bred warrior culture and thirst for justice (Wonder Woman), or even an addiction to the power that allows them to combat evil (Flash). All of those strengths make for -super- heroes. Once you build that foundation, then you can build the universe around them as needed. Batman needs a dark, rotting, dessicated hulk of a city for Gotham. Superman needs a bright, shining beacon of humanity's greatest in Metropolis. What does The Flash need? Green Lantern? Wonder Woman? Find their strength and you'll find their environs and, by rote, their weaknesses and villains.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:05 a.m. CST

    General Crom - about MIRACLE MAN

    by LoneGun

    Yeah, I loved the MIRACLE MAN comic book series. I think it's the most exciting comic Alan Moore ever wrote - not necessarily the best, but the most exciting. It's hard to imagine any studio having the courage to make it into a film, unless they were to change it into family-friendly rubbish, the way Fox destroyed THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMAN. Maybe, if WATCHMEN turns out good and performs well at the box office, they could hire someone like Zack Snyder to direct it, or the Wachowski's.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:26 a.m. CST

    Arkham Asylum :

    by PTSDPete

    That's the future of the Batman franchise. Right there. It is safe to say that the Nolans capped off their ' Nolan ' era magnificently with ' The Dark Knight '. That's a story as complete as ' Heat '. Finito. What they're left with here is to retire the franchise for a short while, and start with a wholesale different take on the mythos, and the franchise. Coz that's how they can really guarantee longevity with the character here. It's outright futility to hinge it all on what a group of people specifically did; especially when it was done in a manner that was finite in its legitimacy. So, DON'T. Let us not allow the risk of this magnificent achievement being run down the ground in the direction of ' Batman Forever '. Which is to say, do something else different with it already. The Batman character has leapt into the realm of myth enough to transcend being hamstrung into a particular mode. You don't see them being as tied down with the Sherlock Holmes or Dr. Jerkyl and Mr. Hyde; but they all know what it has to be about. I think that's what the Nolan people were trying to get at back there....

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:34 a.m. CST

    No One-Dimensional Characters for Me , Either ( Obviously ):

    by PTSDPete

    But multifaceted, complex. three-dimensional character that look and sound like Iron Man. Not a total doofus of somebody just stepping in and running his way. One which allows for geniuinely engaging, sophisticated, techno-stories much as the title deserved & not make you look like an idiot. Sure, that movie version was slightly 3 Dimensional in its own way, and there was something to it. But it WASN'T Iron Man.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:56 a.m. CST

    I'd like to see...

    by Campion

    A second New Frontier movie. The first was good, but to me, a casual fan not into comics, The focus on Green Lantern wasn't too very interesting. He always seemed like a second tier hero. Make something about JLA with Luthor, Braniac, Darkseid etc. in that New Frontier universe.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 2:26 a.m. CST

    Make Superkid the VILLIAN in the next Superman flick :

    by Killfriendly

    " In order to save mankind, will the Man of Steel be able to sacrifice his own begotten son ? " The little twerp destroys humanity against his will due to his erratic human-Kryptonian hybrid nature / DNA. Somebody would have to stop him.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 2:51 a.m. CST

    This Superman idea is so bad.

    by ivehadsex

    When will these idiots learn? Just give him a better villian like Darkseid.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3 a.m. CST

    Two and an half hours of a completely black screen.

    by Dingbatty

    Dark enough for 'ya?

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:02 a.m. CST

    it's easy.

    by deanbarry

    Movie makers...PICK UP A COMIC! Read it. Get a grasp on the character. the Tone. The villains. Then transfer to screen. Treat with love and respect. Nothing annoys a fan more than seeing a beloved superheor transferred to celluloid and CHANGED beyond recognition. There are years and years worth of back catelog to digest. And most of all...LISTEN TO US!

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:41 a.m. CST

    "Put's him in a corner"?

    by drwynninblack

    Does ANYONE know how to use a fucking apostrophe these days? When in the hell did everyone get so fucking stupid when it comes to use of the English language?

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 4:45 a.m. CST


    by blah13

    C'mon (sorry, drwynninblack) guys, stop all the fussin' and a-feudin'. We need a Booster Gold movie! I see Matt Damon as Booster, Harry Shearer as the voice of Skeets, Guy Pierce as Rip Hunter, Megan Fox as random stripper number 4 (the one with the chaps and whip cream gun...sorry, forogt what i was saying...BOOSTER, right!) and Rachel McAdams as Goldstar. As for evil Supernova/Booster's dad, Viggo Mortenson (I know I can't spell his name).

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:10 a.m. CST


    by blah13

    Scratch Viggo Mortenwhatever...GORDON RAMSAY as Supernova!

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:25 a.m. CST

    An R-rated Huntress film?

    by Kommandok

    I'd love to see that! As long as they cast the right actress!

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:52 a.m. CST

    Re: R-Rated Huntress

    by blah13

    MEgan Fox, or Gordon Ramsay

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 7:52 a.m. CST

    Why is it?

    by Darth W. Bush

    That most other studios seems to get it more, to some extent or another, than WB? Execs are why WB's potential roster of great superhero stuff will never get realized except for Batman& Superman. WB needs to take a note from the other studios & back off & let producers who get it enable directors & writers who really get it. BUt "getting it" can't be quatified, you either do or don't.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 8:09 a.m. CST

    I think the "costumes" in Batman and Iron Man helped...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...their respective movies work. Both movies elegantly sidestepped the whole MEN IN TIGHTS problem. The mechanical suit in Iron Man lent itself perfectly to CGI...looked great (as opposed to Hulk, who still looks pretty fake). Nolan's more realistic Batman world allowed them to go for a more body armor-ish look. My point is that I have a hard time imagining a classic GUY IN SPANDEX sort of superhero working these days...but you can't just change the look arbitrarily either. You can't just make the costume out of leather and buckles because you think that's dark and cool and what THE KIDS want these has to make sense and be true to the character. Both Iron Man and Dark Knight either didn't have a costume problem (Iron Man), or managed to solve it gracefully (Batman). Obviously lots of great work went into both movies, but if you are thinking about making a superhero movie your first big problem is weather or not you can make the costume work. I say that a lot if not most of the characters being discussed here will look ridiculous in live action.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 8:58 a.m. CST


    by brandon11

    Despite my own opinions on spider-man, they did a good job on his coustume and hes classified in the "men in tights" category. super man also. it leads me to believe that a captain america, green lantern, or even flash movie arent necesarily too far-fetched. And i think we all need to take a second and remember how lameboostergold is

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:07 a.m. CST

    The Question/The Sandman

    by brandon11

    how sick could these moviesm be? the question might be a no go for a few years with all the frank miller film noir projects etc. but the question is a power house of a character with some serious movie possibilities. also, think about a guillermo tel toro directing a sandman movie (although neil gheiman would obviously do it). That first arch would make for a crazy movie. ive had trouble thinking of actors for the roles, any ideas?

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Agreed...going dark isn't the way...

    by alienindisguise

    but given how stupid execs are, every DC flick that comes out will have signs of the Dark Knight all over it and that just won't work. They shouldn't try to have the same tone for every character but like has been said goes balls to the wall. Sci fi for Green lantern, mythological for Wonder Woman..etc...The dark knight was a subpar flick and I don't give a shit how much money it's made, it shouldn't be the template for every dc character.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Warner Bros.Will Fuck Up The Green Lantern!

    by What The Duck

    Im really worried about ANY studio touching this material. I don't think Warners really know what they are doing. Green Lantern I feel is a very complex hero and Im afraid they will rush all these projects to cash in on the success of the Dark Knight. I mean this is the studio that pushed Harry Potter back almost a full year just to make more money. For fuck sake want a bunch of money grubbing cocksuckers.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:27 a.m. CST


    by brandon11

    subpar? thats rediculous. and everything else is a repeat of things that have already been discussed too many times here. apologize to The Dark Knight. also, how many different times and ways can we say that dc shouldnt make every charactor dark? get on with it guys

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Dark Knight Returns will NEVER HAPPEN.

    by wookie1972

    Quit dreaming. There are many reasons why they would never do it. The most important is that while Superman can be dark, the general public would never go for a morally challenged Superman fighting Batman to the death. (The right-wing bloggers went ballistic when they dropped "the American Way" from Superman Returns; imagine if they portrayed Superman as a government stooge). As well, the Siegel and Shuster estates will soon have more control over the character; I doubt they would appreciate such a portrayal. The only way they could do it is if they removed the Superman character, which would piss off both Miller and the fans of the original. Then there's the matter of Dark Knight Strikes Again, which is even more unfilmable. If you really want an adaptation of DKR, just watch the Tale Of The Dark Knight episode of the Batman Animated Series. It's available on the Gotham Knight DVD.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Dark Knight Returns will NEVER HAPPEN.

    by wookie1972

    Quit dreaming. There are many reasons why they would never do it. The most important is that while Superman can be dark, the general public would never go for a morally challenged Superman fighting Batman to the death. (The right-wing bloggers went ballistic when they dropped "the American Way" from Superman Returns; imagine if they portrayed Superman as a government stooge). As well, the Siegel and Shuster estates will soon have more control over the character; I doubt they would appreciate such a portrayal. The only way they could do it is if they removed the Superman character, which would piss off both Miller and the fans of the original. Then there's the matter of Dark Knight Strikes Again, which is even more unfilmable. If you really want an adaptation of DKR, just watch the Tale Of The Dark Knight episode of the Batman Animated Series. It's available on the Gotham Knight DVD.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:51 a.m. CST

    yes it will

    by brandon11

    doesnt have to include superman or necesarilly the frank miller ideas from that graphic novel. it could just be about him returning to defeat a newly escaped joker or saving the city from something only he can stop

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:54 a.m. CST


    by wookie1972

    Then it wouldn't be DKR. MAYBE you could do the mutant gang and leave it at that, but there's simply no way you could do the last act.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by brandon11

    im just saying the next movie will literally be him like they could use it in the title and not necesarilly have to do that story at all. i dont think mutants are the way to go when there are so many other possibilities with riddler and joker

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Let Phil Jiminez direct the Wonder Woman movie!

    by Jawa 007

    You're right though, Harry. Hollywood is so reactionary. "Fans loved Dark Knight, they must want dark, brooding heroes examining the evil within!" There is no one conclusive answer other than "be true to the spirit of the source material." Man.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10 a.m. CST

    "literally him returning."

    by wookie1972

    My point is that 1) if they use the title, it would get a lot of fanboys in a tizzy expecting the Miller story and 2) the Miller story, as is, would not appeal to the general public. It won't happen.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Jon Hamm is a brilliant choice

    by wookie1972

    I'm not sure who should play Lois (NOT Angelina. She's the standard go to for a tough, "dark" female, and she's just wrong.) Is Cate Blanchett too old? It will never happen, but I want to see Bruce Campbell or Patrick Warburton as Bizarro.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST


    by wookie1972

    Maybe. But like I said, they already did the Mutant gang on the ANimated Series. In any case, it will never be an official live action Batman movie. It just won't.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST


    by wookie1972

    Maybe. But like I said, they already did the Mutant gang on the ANimated Series. In any case, it will never be an official live action Batman movie. It just won't.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:05 a.m. CST


    by brobdingnag

    Bullshit, pointing out that one gay guy wants to fuck another guy is not homophobia. You just cant deal with reality so you have to make it about something other than Singer fucking up and hiring a prettyboy who cannot act.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Hookers? Coke? Yachts?

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Texas Tea? Please, it's not that glamorous. I mean, it's true...Just not that glamorous.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Is Two Face Even Dead?

    by What The Duck

    I i didnt think they made it clear in the movie.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:27 a.m. CST

    Totally Agree, Harry

    by LaserPants

    You know what this sounds like? This sounds like what happened in the 80s when Moore and Miller radically altered the super-hero landscape with Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. Remember how after that, every single superhero suddenly became a vicious sociopath? Isn't that also when Wolverine started to become the most important XMan when previously he wasn't such a big deal? <br><br> I'm really, really happy that The Dark Knight raised the bar for comics, and SUPER happy that this means we'll finally get to see somebody do a GOOD Superman movie. (ALL previous films based on Superman have SUCKED. Flat out sucked. Both Donner and SInger's films sucked dead donkey cock. The only thing good about the previous Superman films were the score (perfect!) and the Krypton / Fortress of Solitude art direction (yay!), everything else is pure shit.) But I agree, it has to be done right. Superman is a boyscout, and should be written as such. But make the bad guy he has to face be a superpowerful raging cosmic demon like Darkseid would be fucking GREAT! I hope they realize this and act accordingly.<br><br> P.S. Great dissection of Luthor too. I always felt like he was more akin to Tony Stark then people generally think of him. And totally Stane in Iron Man was much more like what I think of Luthor as than the dumb-ass bullshit Donner and Singer excreted. "I know how I'll foil Superman this time! A crooked real-estate deal! Sub-prime loans to everybody and their pets! The economy will collapse for sure and Superman's credit rating will drop and so will the equity on his Fortress of Solitude! MWOO HA HA!!! MWOOO HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Soooooo eeeeevil!" Duh.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Goerge Lucas has handed to Red tails to

    by emeraldboy

    peter Jackson.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:31 a.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    Geeknation just experienced a collective mindgasm. Give it to Del Toro to direct. Eother that or make it a really awesome epic animated film by the folks who brought us JLU.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:32 a.m. CST

    I say bring on JLA & AVENGERS

    by lucky slevin

    if they suck they suck, and we will have wasted $10.50, but what if it works. it will be a like gift from the above , . and How about a cheesy ass Marvel vs DC animated film anyone?

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Well put, Harry.

    by PotSmokinAlien

    I don't know shit about superheroes, but even I know that making all of them brooding because of the success of TDK is moronic.<P>What about Capt America, is he DC? That storyline about him getting assassinated sounded pretty awesome.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST

    WB Morons...

    by ColloquiallyBorn

    I think a whole reboot will have to be done. If they want some darkness they'll flop again!<p>I don't know how many of you out there would like this idea, but the whole Man of Steel mini-series by Byrne a few years back was for me a great re-invention of the character. Even had it's little moment of darkness in it when Clark is in Metropolis and catches the plane Lex built and Lois was inside (yes that's where Singer stole another idea to put in his fuckfest and messed it up!). When he returns to the farm, he's completely beaten up mentally from being hounded by hundreds of people that went to him!<p>I think going thru that story and making it happen would be the good choice.<p>Byrne didn't make him invulnerable, he had weaknesses, the cape did tear if pulled on it. The flying was explained as his will to fly off; he didn't have all of the ridiculous powers like the brainwash kiss; or other things that where used in the 50's thru the 80's. He was more human, more flawed. <p>I think the next movie should contain some of these aspects. Hell I'm even game of having Lex in it again, but has a puppet master, like the corporate big wig he is. Have Superman fight off Metallo, a creation of Lex to fight off Superman. Or even bring in Darkseid, Lex would stand up to him, Darkseid likes him, makes him his Lead Counsel for Earth, Superman comes in, battle ensues... <p>Less stupid freaking land ventures (even if he got millions illegally from a dying old woman, that would never stnad-up in court) and more manipulation on his part.<p>Singer clearly didn't get Superman, it's clear that he never actually bought more than three Superman comics or seen more than what was present in the 50's and 70's. He didn't get the character, the storyline. What makes him tick, what makes him stand-down.<p>I would rather have someone that came from the DC Comics background write this new story than have another Hollywood type moron make this movie.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST

    The problem here is that

    by emeraldboy

    Geeks are demanding perfectionists. and one teeny tiny detail is out of place, they raise hell. Jackson bashing on this site is goin to be interesting considering the owner of this site went out his way to spew as much hyperbole on all three films and on the talkbacks not a bad word was allowed to be mentioned about the shortcomings on all three films. Anybody who did was barred and was astonished after KIng kong and quickly the talkbacker turned against Peter jackson.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:55 a.m. CST

    What are these

    by Rommel Catuncan

    "comics" you people keep talking about? You mean the ones with the pictures? The last thing I read was "The Secret", which was a birthday gift from my (ex) wife. A script for it was even put into turnaround until that "Love Guru" movie bombed.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:02 p.m. CST


    by Geekgasm

    Dismissing Singer's work because he's gay is homophobia. Saying Singer hires somebody as the lead for a multi-million dollar motion picture because he wants to fuck him is homophobia and also exceptional stupidity. Too many fanboys hated the movie before they ever saw it because they don't want no faggot making no Superman movie - dude, he's a fag! He hired a good lookin guy to play Superman so he must be a fag too! Superman ain't no fag! So, yeah, homophobia.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:09 p.m. CST

    80's all over again

    by A for Aristocrat

    This is alot like the comic industry in the 80's. The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen came out and changed comics forever. Everyone tried to put other characters in that mold and it influenced the industry for decades. Now comes TDK. If Watchmen does huge numbers then we will have a repeat of the 80's.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:27 p.m. CST

    How to salvage the "superkid" plot.

    by ZeroCorpse

    The kid develops a genius intellect, and (without being detected) finds ways to access sensitive documents, computers, and locations via his reporter mom (played by someone who looks like an adult this time). <p> Bad things start happening, and soon it's clear there's some sort of plot in motion that may just lead to the destruction of the human race. (maybe it's control of all nuclear weapons, or shutdown of all power, or release of nanobots, or something else.) Superman gets into some fights with monstrous threats (a giant robot, I suppose) and then tries to find the source of this attack. He questions Lex Luthor in prison, and Luthor laughs, saying it wasn't him, and that if it doesn't involve real estate he doesn't care (a nice self-deprecating joke for the fans), but he says it's closer to Superman than he thinks, and that maybe he'd better take a trip to Gotham City for some answers.<p> In Gotham, we get a short cameo from Batman as Superman brings him a piece of technology to analyze. Batman figures out that it's nanites combined with human tissue, and he gets a DNA sample from it. Shit happens, and eventually we find out that the Superkid is actually BRAINIAC, who implanted himself in Lois just prior to Superman leaving Earth (Maybe he was originally part of a computer that took half-cents from some company). Brainiac took the form of nanobots who "impregnated" Lois, borrowing tissue from her own body to make a humanoid body. Of course, just as we start to realize this, Batman gives Superman a call and explains it to us. <p> So the child-Brainiac, in an effort to speed up his growth, takes over the body of Lois' boyfriend, and then faces Superman, spouting CGI tentacles and controlling all sorts of computerized stuff around the world, causing disasters. In the end, Superman finds he can't destroy Brainiac and he's forced to banish Brainiac by hurling him into the void of deep space, where he cannot control anything again. <p> Lois is heartbroken, having lost both her "son" and her fiancee at once. Superman sets the world straight again, and comforts Lois. <p> Everything back to normal for the Superman universe. The end. <p> Just please, no more Brandon Routh. He looked awful in the role. Give us SuperMAN for once. Not Super twenty-something, or Superboy.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:30 p.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    Robinov is admitting to past mistakes ie. not knowing enough about the source material and admitting they need to catch up on all that. (Which should've been done ages ago but whatever). I don't see anything wrong with making a Superman movie edgier. That's what I think he's basically saying. It seems as if people are afraid of hurting the "Boy Scout" image of Superman. (Poor widdle Canteen Boy.)

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:47 p.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    I think it's Samuel L. Jackson for "Red Tails". Not Peter.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 12:58 p.m. CST

    I think

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Jason White was a big factor in this whole reboot thing. The kid carried too much baggage (don't mean to sound like a deadbeat dad). Too bad for Tristan Lake Leabu (though I heard he's up for the lead in a remake of the classic '80s sitcom "It's Your Move".)

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:10 p.m. CST

    "Comics Aren't Just For Kids Anymore!" Says Some 80s Guy

    by LaserPants

    Thats right 1980s comic book critic, its true. Actually American comics haven't been "just for kids" (or kids AT ALL) for well on 20 years or so. And in Japan you could say that comics have never been "just for kids." The Japanese are still a good 20 years ahead of the US in terms of comix in terms of the sheer range of stories -- from the most brutal deviancy to the most innocent fairy tale. Eventually, the West will catch up. Eventually.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:35 p.m. CST

    A MUST watch for the Superfans....

    by LazarusRevival

    Please Please Please watch this. If you don't like it you can bash the shit out of me

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Right about Superman Returns baggage

    by A for Aristocrat

    The kid is a major problem for a variety of reasons but he isn't the only one. Singer wanted to put his stamp on the franchise and it backfired because it was true to Donners film not the source material. Donners version came out before Crisis, before Man of Steel, and between the 20 years of comic character development. What some people have a problem with is that Superman abandoned the earth for 5 years (after saying he would never leave again in Superman 2}. Lois leaves Superman to marry some generic guy. Luthor is still doing cheap real estate schemes. Worst of all, Superman comes off as a creepy deadbeat dad stalker. There are good things in the movie but it is overshadowed by the bad. There are things in the movie you either accept or you don't. Obviously at this point there are enough that dont accept it to warrant a reboot.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern? Simple.

    by Baked

    Trilogy of Emerald Dawn, Twilight, and Night with all of the other heroes removed and the entire GL Corps in play. <p> Use the McDuffie John Stewart, throw out the Parallax retcon (because no matter how you spin it, it is STILL a top 5 MOST HORRIBLE AND INTELLECTUALLY INSULTING RETCONS OF ALL TIME), and use Mongol and Sinestro as the main foils. <p> Sinestro should be an anti-hero more than a villain, so when he falls from grace and tries to redeem himself against Jordan and dies it becomes that more poignant.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 2:45 p.m. CST

    A DKR flick would be awesome, BUT...

    by blah13

    THe studio needs to hire GORDON RAMSAY to play Batman...and the Joker...and TwoFace...and the Mutant gang leader...and Commisioner Gordon...and girl Robin.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST


    by blah13

    And Booster GOld

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    All superheroes aren't Dark Knight

    by hallmitchell

    I loved DArk Knight. Yet I don't want everything to be that way. I don't want DArk Knight now to be a formula. I want to see heroism on screen. You guys have stuffed up Superman since Superman 2. YOu should of made the Kevin Smith script. You lost your nerve. I don't want Lex to be a bubbling fool and by the way I"m sick of Lex. Let Superman fight someone else for a change.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:13 p.m. CST

    How ?

    by question83

    I can't really wrap my head around this ? How one can make Superman emo ? It would be a interesting idea, but not true to the character what-so-frickin-ever. I mean it would be great to see a elseworld Superman movie (like Red Son) in darker tones, but dark Superman as a franchise ? Not gonna work. And if i remember correctly Singer wanted to make another movie in darker tone. I think the idea was to show Superman in "angry god" kind of way. Or something like that.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Robinov is an idiot

    by PANtheMAN

    i constantly have to remind myself that there isn't really a set criteria per say to be an "executive" at a studio, other than having a business degree. Dark Knight kicked ass because they (nolan's team) had the balls and fortitude to tell Warner's they were gonna do it that way without consenting to studio notes.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Batman A-Go-Go!

    by sanzaru

    I highly recommend Mike & Lee Allred's "Batman A-Go-Go" story (from DC's Solo #7) to anyone interested in the whole superhero "tone" debate. (Here is a review:

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST


    by brobdingnag

    The problem here is that you can't think for yourself. You have no identity other than victim because that allows you to invalidate any opinion you don't agree with as being some kind of hate or fear. If you actually read my original post you would see that I said "as many straight directors have done." So you can clearly see the point is sex, not gay sex, or straight sex, but sex. But,as I said, you have invested so much in your identity as a victim because it allows you to not have to think for yourself. Simply point your finger and cry some type of -ism. Then its about me being a bigot instead of you liking a bad movie with a shitty actor in the lead.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 4:52 p.m. CST

    R. E. S. P. E. C. T.

    by mrdinky

    I think you're overselling the potential of comic book properties when they're taken seriously. And the fact of the matter -- TRANS-fuck-me-in-the-ear-FORMERS proves this rule -- where was I? Ah yes. The fact of the matter is that the wonderful world of mainstream movie audiences will go see whatever shlock shoveled in front of them (myself included). So to be honest, except for a select few highly marketable franchises (the "franchise" part of that is also a handicap in the taken seriously camp because the accompanying novelties & memorabilia will always take precedence over the quality of the film), it's a wasted effort to put together a top notch film. And you know what? I hate that Michael Bay and George Lucas pissed all over my most cherished childhood memories, but you know what else? It's my fault too. SOMEONE keeps paying to see these things. And for every one of me who wants Optimus Prime taken seriously, 10 other people wanna watch shia lebouf hit on megan fox and see a buncha giant robots play hide and seek in a teenager's backyard. That's a fact. It fucking sucks. But it's a fact. I've given up explaining to people how fucktarded 300 and TRANSFORMERS are.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:13 p.m. CST

    About Superman..Lissen'p Hollywood

    by punjeb

    Sorry if somebody's already said this, but here's my idea for a Superman movie done right. Start with the WB shield morphing into the "S"-shield, pull back and see it is the S on Supes chest, getting pummled by a giant robot manned by the Prankster--pummled because he's not all powerful, maybe 40s-era strength. (Bear with me) As Supers takes Prankster to prison, Luthor is looking out from his tower cursing the alien and plotting his revenge yet again. (This of course is the Byrne-reboot Luthor, no Hackman/Spacey here, this is one cruel SOB.) Metropolis is darker, grittier than in the comics, much like the stereotyped real-world NYC. In fact, Supes may be the only truly decent person in the city. A new hero group shows up. reflecting the more-urban, modern hero--Manchester Black and his team (yep, under Luthor's employ although we find that out later). Then just follow the comic's storyline. So you have a grittier, darker Man Of Steel without making him darker, maybe just a bit edgier, as in the golden age. You could even bring in Lois learning knowing his identity. BTW, as for the Prankster, Supers will use him later in the storyline as 'bait' to smoke out Manchester Black. To me, it works and also shows Superman's place & purpose in today's world. OH, and get almost anyone else to play Superman besides Brandon Routh. Heck, I'd even be willing to see Dean Cain back in tights.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST

    RE:About Superman..Lissen'p Hollywood

    by blah13

    Casting Superman is daunting, so I suggest...Gordon Ramsay!

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Wrong again Harry!

    by Evangelion217

    <<<<But when they tried to make his character DARK & BROODING in the last film - fans rejected it. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT SPIDER-MAN>>>> Fans rejected it, because it wasn't faithful to the source material, and it turned out to be an unintentional comedy. If they managed to make "Spiderman 3" dark, and brooding, without accidently making it into a comedy, then fans would of loved it, and it probably would of made more money then "The Dark Knight." But it sucked, and there you have it.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:35 p.m. CST


    by Evangelion217

    <<<<that those cretins really do not seem to realize that Ledger's death was the ONLY reason why "The Dark Knight" made as much as it did and was well-reviewed>>>> It wasn't just because of his death. It's the amount of publicity that it got. His death gave "TDK" even MORE publicity, that gave it an extra amount of marketing. Plus, the film is fantastic, which gave it great word of mouth. And that's why it became a juggernaut at the box office.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:45 p.m. CST

    Singer's oreintation

    by Chief Joseph

    You realize that there is a gay talkbacker on here that said X-Men 1-2 ans Superman Returns were too gay. Was that gay talkbacker a homophobe, too?<br> If it was too gay for him, imagine how a straight guy like me felt watching Singer's boring movies.<br> "Have you tried not being a mutant?" Give me a break.<br> When Singer said that Superman Returns was _really_ about "meeting up with a guy you used to be in love with that you hadn't seen in years", I knew right there that I wasn't paying to see it.<br> If Singer wants to make a boring superhero movie with gay themes, he should just film Alpha Flight and be done with it.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 5:52 p.m. CST

    They tried a dark Green Lantern..

    by Shepard Wong

    on the Justice League cartoon. He worked out ok.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Inevitable. . . Not likely.

    by DumFownDid

    Everyone on here thinks that TDK is going to be the end of the superhero genre and in that respect I strongly disagree. If anything, TDK made Batman true. It made the idea of the vigilante that much more attainable in a real society. And although Robinov has stated that he wants to go the "dark" route on all of the superhero films, I think what he was going for was the idea of making these characters relatable to human standards. Spiderman and Batman are prime examples. . . Revenge, being an outcast, etc. However if it were up to me, I would go with the Green Arrow script where he is thrown into Sing Sing with the villians from all of the different comic series. . . It would be the perfect splice into a possible JLA movie. Just think about it.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST


    by erykthedead

    They should just give Timm the reigns and say "Go" He actually gets bright, shiny, Superman whosw not so much. And Dark, Brooding Batman, whose not so much. I liked Dark Knight a lot, it's a better "movie" then I could have imagines, still Timm captures a balanced Bat better, and I'm convinced only Timm gets Superman. Flash "Your not as big a Boy Scout as everyone things" Supes: "Never even got a merit badge." Supes to Bats after Supes Vs Darksied 1: "Your not always right Bruce." He gets the Supes/Bats dynamic/friendship. Timm Gets Wonder Woman, he made the Green Arrow/Canary Romance a blast, he was so good at the Bat/Wonder Woman romance they inserted into the books. Timm just seems to get it. He doesn't need to direct, but he should head the "DC Studios" Division

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 7:27 p.m. CST

    XMen Works As A Gay Metaphor (Superman Not So Much)

    by LaserPants

    The underlying metaphor of bigotry in the XMen is a pretty obvious gay metaphor. Being a mutant = being gay, being a minority, being an outcast hated (usually by ultra-right-wing theocratic sociopaths) for WHAT you are, what skin you were born in, rather than who you are or the quality of your actions. The metaphor is literally screaming at you with the XMen and thusly was that metaphor explored to its furthest extent (hell, even in the comics, the entire XMen homebase has been moved to San Francisco). Superman, however, doesn't fit this metaphor. Although I suppose being an alien makes him a minority, he isn't hated, he is more revered as a king of god-protector of Earth. So, gay-emo Superman is and was such a completely out-of-character theme that I seriously wonder if Singer ever read a single issue of the comic if even only as research. He saw the Donner films, clearly is obsessed with Reeves, must have jerked off to the movie thousands of times, and then made his own; a film which was an EPIC FAIL.<br><br>Still, pretty much any character with a dual identity is a pretty easy gay metaphor (they have to hide who they really are for fear of catastrophic social circumstances), so all superheroes have that vague trait symbol, but none as strong as in the XMen.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Give Routh a 2nd Shot

    by Alex Childress

    Not saying he should be cast. They should at least give the guy a screen test. If Routh does play Superman again, he needs to seriously train with bodybuilders, take some boxing classes, and maybe even pitch a few bales of hay on a farm, if he wants to go all method.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 8:18 p.m. CST

    Kingdom Come

    by Fekko

    Warner Bros. would be wise to option the "Kingdom Come" Elseworld mini-series as feature at some point. It's one of the best takes on the JLA and the DC universe ever put to print. It has it all: a disgraced Superman, a cripled Batman, a Flash that exists only partially in our universe, a Wonder Woman that, finally, lives up to the "Warrior Princess" moniker, and a Green Lanturn/Paladine incarnation that will rock you! This doesn't even begin to give you the direction of the awsome storyline. The characters as presented are very arc-typical; drawing on the Olympic Gods, the Round Table Khights, and several other mythical legends . Each characters story is interesting an well thought out. It has the dark back-drop mentioned in the article, but still has a positive conclusion. The Alex Ross artwork in the series is brilliant! If they could capture his style on film, it would surley be an instant contender an AA in photograph. A "Sin City" style look would fit it very well.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Is this a result of that summit Warners were having?

    by hallmitchell

    I heard that Geoff Johns and David Goyer, DC and Warners were having a think tank on where to take the DC universe. Does anyone know anything about this? It's got me geek excited.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 9:39 p.m. CST

    by claudiomonster

    Fact is I dont think when he say Dark he literally means - gloomy, sad Superman. I think he's talking about a more gritty, realistic Superman, ala Dark Knight. Hell, I've been waiting for this for 20 years. I was so pumped for Superman Returns -- fucking sucked, boring as shit. This movie should be a mix of storyline and action and character devel. 1. Origin Superman, show him learn how to control his powers. 2. Show him devel. his alter ego 3. Don't make his goofy, make him the top reporter who goes neck to neck with lois. 4. set up for a doomsday trilogy 5. have people react to a flying man -- not everyone embraces it. The gov't may want to catch him, hide him. just some ideas.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:14 p.m. CST

    darkseid a hard sell

    by Devyn Angelus

    The only problem with Darkseid is you either have to set up all the new gods which no one really wants in a two hour movie or make him a human villain. Plus it's hard to ground your movie like Batman and Iron Man did when you have evil ETs running around. They should stick to the human villains or do a really good Bizzaro take to witness the good and bad sides of superman. And not that "me am happy" crap but a really twisted messed up Clark Kent with twisted values. And I think Pete went Chris Gaines in Spidey 3 not emo

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:14 p.m. CST

    I still don't get why Warners didn't reboot Supes in the first p

    by UnChienAndalou

    So much time had elapsed. Just because Bryan Singer was hot off X2 doesn't mean that he should've been given free reign to dictate story parameters and insist on picking up where the Donner sequel left off. Who knows how much further damage will be done by the damning reverberations of the decision to not establish the origins from scratch.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:22 p.m. CST


    by danation

    I would like to see some team up films. A Worlds Finest film would be quite nice. Superman and Batman, then add more when more characters go to screen. It could very possibly redeem Superman films to me.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Superman Reboot Is NECESSARY

    by LaserPants

    I think the powers that be know this to be the case. Just erase the Singer Donner-fetish bullshit and start over. The theme music can stay though 'cause its friggin' perfect.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:09 p.m. CST

    Questions about Superman in a modern world

    by uberman

    Things I wanna know: How does he cut his hair? Shave? He obviously does because its always the same, yet it doesnt burn off of anything. He doesnt need to breath, as he can spend years in space or underwater or under the earth, so where does the Super-breath come from? Are his organs 'like steel' or just his outer self? How would countries 'protect' themselves from his interferance? Would they use a nuclear deterant? After all, Supes could'nt stop every nuke from hitting a target. What would be the strain of being blamed for not preventing every catastrophy? How about the news? Does Supes watch it? Would he intervene in those cases where he felt that justice was not being done? Would he grab the bad guys and fly them away and make them confess? Would that be thrown out in a court of law? What about 3rd world dictators and genocide? Supes could track the leaders down and drop them off at the UN. How would the bad guys counter? Would they kill innocent civilians in retaliation? Would Supes be seen as a threat to the worlds religions? What is Supes was an agnostic? That would cause alot of controversy. What if he was socialist in his views? If he was strictly pro-American, would he be used as a weapon? A spy? A Missle defense system? And what if he became disillusioned with his government? Would he inervene? Would Supes practice Buddism and only use no-violent methods? Would he be more militaristic? People from all over would beg him to intercede in their causes. How does he chose where and when to get involved? Does he begin to see himself as messianic? These are just a few questions that could be raised in making a new Superman.

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Superman's SuperCuts

    by LaserPants

    Superman shaves and cuts his hair with his eye-beams and a mirror. No kidding!

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:37 p.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    There was a Variety article about ten days ago: <p> <P> QUOTE: <p> "We're having a lot of internal discussions on it," Horn says. "We haven't committed to any change at DC at this point," adding that both Warners and DC are committed to turning "the properties into viable movie product in an intelligent way so that we introduce them like planes on a runway. They have to be set up the right way and lined up the right way and all take off one at a time and fly safe and fly straight." <P> and <P> "To put it simply: the studio doesn't want to piss off the Comic-Con contingent. <P> "We're not off the notion of a Justice League," Robinov says. "There's a massive interest and knowledge in the comicbook industry and it takes time to sort of catch up and understand the characters and the history, where they've intersected with each other and what their worlds are. That's part of the education that we're going through.""

  • Aug. 24, 2008, 11:57 p.m. CST

    I just saw the worst movie I've seen in years,,,

    by uberman

    Its called 'Doomsday'. Good lord, what a trainwreck of epic proportions. Its 'Plan 9 from Outer Space' level of bad. I just had to share that. Now, back to Superman...

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Go back and read waggy's comment

    by Interficium

    I love his take on this being a parallel to the "grim and gritty" wave of post-TDK, post-watchmen 90s comics.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Jeff Robinov is Out of Touch

    by thegrayghost

    Jeff Robinov is the typical clueless studio exec who is overpaid and cannot form an original thought. They are so detached from what the viewing public wants that they depend completely on statistical data and what is currently "hot." They have their heads so far up their asses, that they find it easier to simply mimic blindly what worked before than to truly figure out why a movie was good in the first place. The Dark Knight was DARK because that character is SUPPOSE TO BE DARK! To simply assume that darkness, internal brooding and conflict will work with every character is a naive over-simplification of why DK was successful. The Dark Knight was by no means perfect, but what Begins and this movie did was not rush the development process, pay respect to what the core of this character was and to the source material, hired some of the best writers/actors, brought on an intelligent, talented, and inspired director, and backed it up with a big budget and brilliant marketing campaign. Jon Favreau and Marvel did it right with Ironman. Sam Raimi did it with Spiderman 2. Singer with X2. Donner with Superman. All very distinct characters done right for its time. They were not all dark. Wake up Jeff. Though, I'm glad they are starting to think about crossovers and building up to JLA ... yes, Marvel thought of it first, but who cares, its a great idea!

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 12:46 a.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    That Batman vs Superman poster in 'I Am Legend' was totally serious! WB, you coits.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Re: Jeff Robinson being out of touch

    by blah13

    I completely agree, making DC heroes all be Batman is a huge mistake. So, THey should start really understanding what these characters are about and respect the source material in the same way Chris Nolan did. SO...HIRE GORDON RAMSAY TO PLAY EVERY DC HERO THERE IS, YOU STUPID DONKEYS!!!!!

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 3:30 a.m. CST

    Spiderman 3 was RACIST.

    by flimz E

    Did anyone else notice that, in the black suit, Peter Parker became a womanizer who plays jazz and dances well? AND how about that jazz scene? I'd like to officially declare that music numbers in hero flicks are "no-no's."

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 3:35 a.m. CST

    For the love of Jove, it's "seriousLY"

    by Boromir

    The key is to take their villains SERIOUSLY. "Serious" is an adjective; "seriously" is an adverb.<br><br>Save the adverb!!!!<br><br>Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 3:47 a.m. CST

    Follow history

    by news2me2005

    What has made the recent Marvel movies so good as of late is that fact that they have gone back to the characters roots. Gone back to the source material, they also have a lot of control. And control canbe a good and bad thing. Marvel has final say and thats what Warner Bros. needs too. DC needs to appoint a liason to over see all the DC owned properties. That way they are getting the right depiction of their heroes on screen. That being said, i also think more comic book writers should be brought in to develop story lines and screenplays.. that way they could fit into both the continuity of the comics and into other DC movies. Just my take.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 7:45 a.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    Does anyone understand this? It was like Grindhouse, but about late 70s, early 80s post-apoc movies. Am I the only person on Earth who understood this fact???

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 8:22 a.m. CST

    I'll make this clear :

    by Killfriendly

    Superman is gonna be FORCED TO KILL HIS SUPERKID in order to save mankind. If he is such a God boy, will he be up to that task ?!?!? It's one way of getting out of potentially limiting loop and save face. It's dark, yes, but in a way that is legitimate and makes sense; posing a question about the futility of an alien basically meddling with the affairs of a humanity that is not his own. How DO you do this ' Superman ' bussiness, anyway? It's what I was thinking.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 8:37 a.m. CST

    re: Darkseid a hard sell

    by Killfriendly

    Well, they could just mention that there are these ' New Gods ' somewhere, where he's come from. Darkseid would be the only one we'd ever had to see. But, it would be really awesome if ever it came to pass. They always do that in the Hollywood movie, it's a no-brainer. BUT they will really have to resolve that Super baby problem, because that is what it's gonna be. I actually proposed it that way as a means with which Superman could go forward from there and transition into something more magnanimous and cosmic, and as a way to decisively leave the whole human realm ( and wallowing around it ) behind for a while - or at least realized in a way that is different, like looking from a set of new eyes. The imposed detatchment would have him being more of ' outside looking in ', deliberately shaping society into a sort of New Krypton, where he can have babies and not worry about the consequence, and the sort of alarm it triggers across the cosmos, bringing them into the fray. About damn time we see a movie with Superman tussling with otherworld bastards, but in a way that makes sense. It'd be really helpful if they started treating the whole coterie of Super-movies as sort of part of canon, recognizing them but not being hamstrung by those - in the same way Grant Morrison and all those people do it all the time in their work, as means of propelling their material forward. The paradigmatic shift can't just come out from nowhere, seeing how this wasn't how the public would have remembered the whole thing being; other than it creates a fine tapestry, since all these movies have had pretty much the same aesthetic. An outright reboot, however, should be fine, if they take their time off a few more years. I'd put my money of them letting all these ' dark-and-gritty ' spate of superhero movies such as Watchmen come to pass, before they surge into the fray with something looking like gleaming hope, and stuff. That would be swell.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 8:57 a.m. CST

    DC movies have no style... Marvel movies have a certain art dire


    the problem with DC movies is they dont feel like they are set in the same world as each other... like batman and supes would never bump into eachother.. there is no art direction that implies this. With the marvel movies you feel like spidey could bump into iron man at any time... the hulk ccould cross paths with Iron Man.. daredevil could run into nick fury, etc... DC just cannot comprehend this concept.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 9:06 a.m. CST

    also- i agree with Harry- Darkseid it should be...


    and for green lantern, a huge sci fi experience. i dont need his origin story- fuck that. i hate origin movies. what a waste of film. people arent dumb, they dont need to see how the green lantern got his powers! its a waste. people dont care! why do you think the dark knight made so much more money? it wasnt a boring origin story, and it had a great villain. fuck origin stories. do a huge superman /darksied movie... do it with huge explosions and fx... but respect it! same with green lantern and all the others... just get somebody who knows the material

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Brandon Routh OR Tom Welling for SUPERMAN

    by JDanielP

    In my opinion, Brandon Routh or Tom Welling should be Superman in the new flick. Either way, simply ignore EVERYTHING that came before, in both film and television. (This IS a Superman REBOOT, after all.) Simply pull from the best comic books in Superman history. (And work towards a "KINGDOM COME" flick.) - Sometimes, actors get too much blame or too much credit. And sometimes, actors don't get enough credit, just as they may deserve more blame. "BATMAN AND ROBIN" was a horrible flick...and no actor would have changed that fact. But had George Clooney been under the right advisement, in a flick much like THE DARK KNIGHT, many a talkbacker would've been singing a different tune. - But please understand...that even with the best of talent and vision behind the camera, Superman is much more difficult to cast. Michael Keaton would never have passed for Clark Kent. So allow me to finish this by saying that...either Routh or Welling should be Superman. And for heaven's sake, make sure that Superman's costume is done RIGHT,...a costume for a hero that offers hope.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 9:29 a.m. CST

    A faithful Superman costume should inspires hope.

    by JDanielP

    I suppose that would be better said.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 9:30 a.m. CST


    by JDanielP

    dang it

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 10 a.m. CST

    Cher (age 62) and Depp in THE CAPED CRUSADER?!

    by JDanielP

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Superman, like the Hulk...

    by Kid Z just plain unfilmable. Give it up, WB.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Big shock, everyone to copy DK

    by Beezbo

    God, I hated that movie...

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Hope that Cher rumor is just that...

    by Kid Z

    ...a rumor. A horrible, horrible rumor. It's Catwoman, Nolan... not Crazy Cat Lady.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Superman Returns was NOT a gay metaphor

    by oisin5199

    that's just homophobic bullshit from Singer-bashers. The main personal theme was Superman as an adopted child, with a godlike but absent father figure, which carried over into the plotline with his sun, hit home by the scene towards the end when Supes recalls the words Jor-El said to him and repeats them to his son. It had absolutely nothing to do with a 'gay' metaphor.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 12:25 p.m. CST


    by blah13


  • Aug. 25, 2008, 12:27 p.m. CST

    I say do an adaptation of Morrison's Animal Man

    by oisin5199

    This is probably quite a long ways off, but it could be a great spoof on superhero films. Have Animal Man realize he's in a superhero movie (just like Buddy Baker realized he was a character in a comic book and met Grant Morrison, back in the classic series). It'd be like the Truman Show version of superheroes. Of course, you'd have to write out all that Crisis on Infinite Earths stuff.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 1:51 p.m. CST

    I vote for a film version of Grant's Doom Patrol...

    by Kid Z

    ...just 2 hours of the loopiest, insane, hallucinogenic, x and blow-fueled superhero freakiness... with the guy who's just a brain in a robot body as the most normal character in the script. Just wish there was an actress who was wacked-out and dangerous enough to be cast as a credible Crazy Jane.

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Spiderman 3 sucked.........

    by Crackles

    because we didn't even get to see dark spidey!!! He got infected with the symbiote and the worst he did was dance in the streets and tell his neighbor to make him cookies!! Give me a fucking break!!

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Oh wait.......

    by Crackles

    he slapped Mary Jane ONCE and then snapped out of it!! And everything Franco did in that movie honestly made me and my brother laugh out loud in the theater....he's one goofy bastard in that movie!

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Superman III? Do I Remember It?

    by fedrich519

    Not really, I blocked it out of my memory quite successfully. However, the one memory I can't erase is the woman being swallowed by the supercomputer and turning into an evil robot. Pretty scary stuff for a nine year old. Now, its just comedy

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 7:17 p.m. CST

    Re: Darkseid a hard sell

    by Devyn Angelus

    Yeah i suppose they could drop all the old god stuff and make him some super alien tyrant with little backstory but i still worry that the first half of the movie would be all alien invasion with a little DS thrown in. Not that i wouldn't like to see that necessarily but they have such trouble capturing what superman is all about on film i'm worried his alien origins are quite compatable with his image as the ultimate amercian symbol. I admit any new supe film after Dark Knight is going to be very hard pressed to find a worthy enemy that non-comic readers can get into. But i agree Killfriendly superbaby must go. I didn't now the last movie was going to be an episode of Maury

  • Aug. 25, 2008, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Vertigo Sandman

    by davidlosers

    as broody as DC is gonna get.

  • Aug. 26, 2008, 12:33 a.m. CST

    I hate to break to the idiots.

    by Evangelion217

    But the script doesn't have ANY flaws until the last 5 minutes. And even that's barely a flaw, since alot of people have come up with different theories to overshadow it. So the film is a true masterpiece. And with Nolan, his brother, and cast, the script wouldn't of been half as brilliant as it turned out to be. Fact.

  • Aug. 26, 2008, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Trying to replicate DK success is a fool's errand

    by Breck

    The huge success of the Dark Knight is attributable to the over-hyped death of an overrated actor. I'm sure it's a good movie and I'm sure it would have still been successful, but there's no way in hell it would have made anywhere near as much money as it has if Heath Ledger had not died. Seeing this movie became the "in" thing to do, even for people who had absolutely no interest in the movie itself. Anyone who denies this is just a deluded fanboy. Anyway, the WB is no convinved that the movie did so well because of it's "dark and brooding" nature and are trying to apply that formula to all of their properties. (As if, somehow, this is the first "dark and brooding" superhero movie.) Hate to break it to them, but the only way to duplicate DK numbers is to stage the "tragic" death of a "young and promising" actor from the cast of everyone of their upcoming movies.

  • Aug. 26, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST


    by FleshMachine

    love 'em.

  • Aug. 26, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    HEy FleshMachine...

    by blah13

    YOu know what would have made those SUperman flicks better? GORDON RAMSAY playing Superman and Lex Luthor. ANd Lois Lane.

  • Aug. 26, 2008, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Superman Returns 2

    by badboymason

    Simple: have the Wachowskis make the action-packed Superman film that their "fighting flying superhumans" Neo/Smith battle at the end of Matrix Revolutions showed us was possible... seriously, that scene is like a textbook guide for how to do Superman fights in the next movie...

  • Aug. 26, 2008, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Green Lantern

    by badboymason

    Is so setup for a classic, simple storied three act movie its unreal. Much like Iron Man you would have the origin at the start - The somewhat selfish test pilot Hal Jordan is flying some fancy new jet over the desert when he has a close call with a green object hurtling to Earth. He bails out and investigates - a mysterious alien garbles something to him and gives him a ring. The ship explodes. We cut to him waking up in the middle of a crate completely unscathed... we have some scenes of him learning his powers and maybe realizing he can use his powers to do some good in protecting his city. Sinestro then shows up and after a quick fight explains he is another Green Lantern and gives Jordan some training. We would then have Jordan wanting to stay on Earth while the Guardians want him to come help with some intergalactic trouble... while at first he defies them, he is shown that if he doesnt head into space to help, Earth will be next. So in the final act we end up on Oa with a war between Sinestro and other rogue GLs against the Corps/Guardians. Throw in a subplot about Carol Ferris and a potential threat on Earth to give Hal conflicted reasons to want to stay... and thats all you need. really.

  • Aug. 27, 2008, 3:10 a.m. CST

    Hollywood One Word Synopses

    by Betty Kane

    Hollywood has a short attention span so keep your synopses short. Batman = Vengeance. Superman = Honor. Wonder Woman = Sacrifice. Green Lantern = Power. Flash = Duty. Green Arrow = Justice. Aquaman = Courage. The Atom = Wonder. J'onn J'onnz = Alien. Hawkwoman = Fury. Yes, Hawkwoman, not Hawkman. The weak one here is Aquaman but a good writer could do a killer eco-flick about a man who understands the oceans and won't quit trying to save them against all the forces of all the nations on Earth. A one man Greenpeace, it may be the only way to do a serious Aquaman movie. - Betty

  • Aug. 27, 2008, 4:36 a.m. CST


    by blah13

    should be played by GORDON RAMSAY

  • Aug. 27, 2008, 1:51 p.m. CST

    "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters

    by Jor-El23

    Does everyone keep missing this quote? I agree that WB still doesn't quite get it but they're getting closer. Why would they make Superman more brooding than he already was in Superman Returns? It obviously didn't work for that movie. That being said, there are aspects of Superman as a character that are a little dark. Haven't they explored that in the comic books? What happens when a benevolent god-like being goes rogue? Wasn't that sort of the plot of one of the Batman v. Superman scripts anyway? Isn't there something inherently dark about grown men dressing up in leotards and fighting crime? Isn't it also dark when you think about the powers that many of them have and what they could do with them if they weren't good people?

  • Aug. 27, 2008, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Darkseid? No, no, no, no, no, oh god, no.

    by DonnyUnitas

    Big blue and grey villain who controls minds? Yeah, that'll sell real well. I say, give Singer, Spacey, and Routh one more shot. Rebooting the Superman franchise yet again will have the same effect that it had with the Hulk; nobody will really care. Here's how to do it: Lex verbally renounces the jokes, the banter, and finally gets SERIOUS. He does this by killing off all the ones holding him back: Kitty, Kumar, the Henchmen, etc. Then, he kills the kid. And Lois' husband. BOOM. The storyline is rebooted, and we have dark undertones that the studio wants, plus a more-realistic approach to Lex as a believable, and lethal, villain. This should all be done in the first 15 minutes. From there, I dunno, do the return of Zod, or the Lex For President storyline, or whatever. Just bring it back to what we wanted in Superman Returns, and I'll be satisfied.

  • Aug. 27, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    GO with Darksied

    by Phategod2

    I make it epic leave out Lex or if you really wan't to go dark have Darksied kill lex within seconds of the two meeting. Anyone who thinks Darksied can't be done due to his origin or looks is short sighted and proof of the main problem Hollywood has which is lack of vision or imagination.

  • Aug. 27, 2008, 11:38 p.m. CST

    No Plasticman movie coming out?

    by The Dawgfan


  • Aug. 27, 2008, 11:55 p.m. CST

    No, WB doesn't almost 'Get it'

    by thehoebo

    A reboot at this stage will 'Hulk' Superman, noone will care. Hulk didn't work, and won't work cinematically because, well its rubbishone of the least interesting comic book characters ever. A Superman reboot now will make less money than Returns. Donners original is the template that all the good origin stories still follow, you reboot it now, and all that will happen is the rebooted version will be directly compared to the first one, which is the definition of masterpiece. As usual Harry you don't quite get it,Spiderman 3 didn't fail because of the emo garbage, it failed because it was a badly written mess, unexplained villains, uninteresting story, and a lack of direction. Yes Returns wasn't perfect, but you cannot deny it was better than either FF films, or even Supes 3 and 4. It would be pretty simple to turn the story round on Singers Superman, that said, the superman villains aren't great, they're the weakest aspect of the franchise, Brainiac, could work brilliantly, with a redesigned look, it would bring a sense of danger at last. As for WB wanting a 'ream up' movie, forget it. NO WAY will Bale be part of it, it won't fit with Batman at it is currently. The only way a team up will work now is after the TDK sequel, serving as an introduction to a new Batman. It won't make any sense grouding Bats for the standalone films, then have him fighting aliens in a team up. They are best waiting 3-4 years, establish some other JL members, give Returns a direct sequel and have it set the ground work for a GL, WonderWoman, Flash, etc, set of films. WB don't have any sense of how to treat comic book films, they see how well Marvel are doing and think, we want the same. Well, you won't get it by doing a Superman reboot, it's actually a big step back. Despite what AICN thinks, there are a lot of people that are fans of Returns, and it wouldn't take much to win a lot more over. There is no need for another origin story, been there, done that, just give us a good story period.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 12:02 a.m. CST


    by vadakinX

    Nevermind us, did you read the whole quote? He doesn't just say to the extent the characters allow, he says they're going to explore the "evil side" of the characters.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Adam Strange

    by holidill

    You want a good franchise. Come see me about Adam Strange. 7 movies, the first three are like back to the future/pirates trilogies, first one intros characters and is a stand alone, 2 and 3 are connected. Film 4 will connect the previous trilogy to the upcoming trilogy which will be the Rann/Thanagar war. Nice!

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 7:06 a.m. CST

    On Superman Returns

    by Steven Latch

    I really like the movie but I understand why it didn't work or please the studio. What Singer did was an hommage to Donner's work that wraps up the themes that were set back in the days (he doesn't get the girl but he gets an heir). It's very much a movie for guys in their 30's who grew up since the Donner movies and their is not much for a younger audience. Still it felt a bit outdated in some ways. Unlike many other superheroes that are real loners, Superman is the ultimate corporate super hero, fighting for truth, justice and the american way. That's what Franck Miller portrayed perfectly in the Dark Knight Comic. In a post golden age, desillusioned America, how does Superman cope with the fact that he is a black and white hero in a grayscale world. Superman doesn't have ( and shouldn't have to) be dark. But the world around him is. The Iron Man movie deals with this a bit by making Tony Stark a reformed weapons dealer, unlike the proud weapons dealer he originally is in the comics. Don't get me wrong, I don't want an Anti-US Superman, but at least a conflicted Superman.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 9:12 a.m. CST

    If you want a "dark" Superman movie, greenlight Phillip Wylie's

    by C.K. Lamoo

    Set in modern times.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 9:13 a.m. CST

    If you want a "dark" Superman movie

    by C.K. Lamoo

    greenlight Phillip Wylie's Gladiator.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 9:27 a.m. CST


    by bravojo Someone came up with a fuctional design for Wonder Woman! Not bad at all. I think they could pull that off.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the

    by Jor-El23

    I think this article is hard to read and make an accurate assessment of direction for WB. Plus, isn't Rubinov going to be out as head of the DC properties? Didn't we recently hear someone at WB saying that they want on person in charge of the DC properties, sort of like what Marvel is doing? I just don't see them making Superman dark and brooding like Batman. You can't say that based on this article and the way it's written and the quotes given. You can't say one way or the other actually.

  • Smart people can wise up, but dummies stay dumb. And the Warner people have been dumb for ages. Anything good that comes out of there is in spite of the knuckleheads running the show, not because of them. Marvel's lucky.

  • Aug. 28, 2008, 11:03 p.m. CST

    bravojo - Nice design but I prefer the original colors.

    by JDanielP

    I love the illustrative work of Alex Ross in "KINGDOM COME", where you can find (perhaps) the BEST reference for a Wonder Woman movie-costume. And you've just got to love her battle armor!

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 2:30 a.m. CST

    Wonder Woman...

    by blah13

    THat costume is fantastic, as is the Alex Ross design in Kingdom Come. However, I think the only person who could portray a greek amazon warrior princess is...GORDON RAMSAY!!! Imagine it..."HERA!! The risotto is undercooked, CHeetah, you donkay!!"

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 3:58 a.m. CST

    There are no un-fullfilled subplots 'The Dark Knight."

    by Evangelion217

    So the jackass who tried to make that claim, is somebody who has not seen "TDK." Everything was executed brilliantly, and finished in a way that felt satisfying. You can dislike it all you want, but don't try to make up lies to make you feel better about you're opinion. And what "Joker fundraiser" is that guy talking about?? Did he even see the film??

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Let's face it: The Dark Knight just doesn't fit with the Justice

    by the merciless adriano

    Sorry but I really don't want to see the Chris Nolan Batman getting mixed with the others superheroes. To me a world full of superheroes just goes against the realistic portrait he did. I can see the Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America movie leading to an Avengers because THEY FEEL TO BELONG TO THE SAME WORLD. The Chris Nolan Batman feels like a loner with too much of his own problems to go around space hunting aliens. Actually I always felt Batman as quite misplaced in the Justice League in general because of that.

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 8:19 a.m. CST

    by the merciless adriano

    I'd rather they make a Superman AGAINST Batman movie, where Superman is sent to capture Batman on the way of the Dark Knight Returns. That by itself would set up the stage for a great action movie with Batman using all his tech trying to figure out ways to defeat Superman, using morgan freeman, alfred, all the cast and try to add some depth to the superman charactes as well ( since on the Singer movie they are mostly so ridiculously shallow and dispensable ). And PLEASE no Lex Luthor. And NO Brian Singer style of script wher there is always a 'beyond absence of disbelief' huge plan to kill millions of people but for real just killing our patience with all of its obvious flaws.

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 8:21 a.m. CST

    by the merciless adriano

    Set up a superhero movie without villains just the conflict of will between two superheroes. At least would go beyond the regular formula of superhero meets villain, his girlfriend is threatened as well as the whole city/world, huge fight, hero wins and villain gets his ass kicked.

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Darkseid a hard sell

    by Oknight

    Just remember, if you do Darkseid right, he'll never actually do anything. Darkseid would never go toe-to-toe with Superman, he has a whole PLANET OF SUPERVILLIANS (well, evil gods) at his beck and call-- he's no more involved than Sauron. Superman the Animated Series did it perfectly-- Kanto (Darkseid's personal assasin) showed up pretending to be human and gave Intergang Apokolips weapons to use against Superman-- only later did Darkseid deploy his actual forces, and then he was only stopped by Superman backed-up by the PLANET OF SUPERHEROES (well, good gods). Darkseid only personally killed one guy (as a rather dickish ploy).

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Codymr-- World

    by Oknight

  • Aug. 29, 2008, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Codymr-- World's Finest

    by Oknight

    Thanks for the props-- My other profound revelation about Superman/Batman that nobody ever figured out-- Superman as Watson. "Good heavens, Wayne, why do you want me to drop a mountain here?" "My dear Superman, in a moment you will see the army of criminals I deduced would be arriving just as you dropped it." -- Superman may have "super intelligence", but lets face it-- he keeps forgetting to turn it on.

  • Aug. 30, 2008, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Unknown User

    by goatfever2007

    About your whole laser blasting a Jedi at head and waist level at the same time...The Jedi would probably just jump 15 feet in the air..

  • Aug. 30, 2008, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Konichiwa bitches

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Take all the fun out of it, render the costumes unrecognisable and make it purely for adults. Thanks!

  • Aug. 30, 2008, 6:21 a.m. CST


    by Rommel Catuncan

    I wouldn't mind a James McTeigue (V for Vendetta)/Mark Millar version of Superman.

  • Aug. 30, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    I'll KILL to see a Green Lantern film

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    Especially if it utilised the Green Lantern Corps. And maybe the Sinestro Corps could be used in the sequel. Awesome.

  • Aug. 30, 2008, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Actualy I think Spider-Man was brooding too much in those movies

    by chien_sale

    Spider-Man needs to have fun being Spider-Man! Epic fail by Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire.

  • Aug. 30, 2008, 6:51 p.m. CST

    I agree with PTSDPete

    by chien_sale

    Iron Man was enjoyable. I loved it. But that intense techno-triller would have been magestic. I think Joe "Narc" Carnahan was interested at one point.

  • Aug. 31, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST


    by IRhino

    I <br> agree

  • Aug. 31, 2008, 1:59 p.m. CST

    I really agree

    by IRhino

    I <br> agree <br> ALOT

  • Sept. 1, 2008, 4:39 p.m. CST

    I would LOVE

    by Half-Baked-Goggle-Box-Do-Goader

    to taste some krypto goo