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Reader reaction: CRUSADE - "The Long Road" !!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
THIS PAGE IS RESERVED FOR TALKBACKS ABOUT "THE LONG
ROAD" - THE SECOND EPISODE OF CRUSADE !!!
Please feel free to post your thoughts, comments, likes, dislikes, creative input, etc. about the
second episode of this series, which aired the evening of Wednesday June 16, 1999 on TNT.
Just scroll down to the "Talkback" icon below, click, and get started!
REMEMBER - LET'S RESPECT EACH OTHER'S OPINIONS !!!
As uncomfortable as it may be, people may not always agree with what we have to say
about Babylon 5 and Crusade. Disagree with someone all you want in these
forthcoming Talkbacks, but if you start name calling, threatening, demeaning, or otherwise
running-down someone simply because they do not say what you wish they'd say (which
has
been happening to a lot of people voicing dissenting opinions abut this show lately), you will be
summarily banned and deleted from these Talkbacks. CIVIL DISCOURSE ONLY - and I will be
watching!
Saving Crusade
In the near future, you may also find yourself asking "How do I send letters to someone about
saving this show!?!?!?!
You can find out more information about sending "Save Crusade" letters by HREF="http://www.astro.umd.edu/~fleming">CLICKING HERE, or by HREF="http://homes.acmecity.com/babylon5/lurker/2/crusade.htm">CLICKING HERE to
access the primary SAVE CRUSADE web sites.
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Glen here: wanting to try someth8ing new: regarding CRUSADE criticism. Should you find yourself disliking tonight's episode, let's try a new
approach instead of directly blaming TNT. Let's actually entertain the notion...just the random thought...that TNT is not responsible for the low quality of some of these episodes. Let's say I hire a painter to paint my house. Say the painting does not go well. Is that MY fault because I hired the painter? What did *I* do wrong?
Either a) I hired a bad painter; b) the project was just inherently doomed (as some projects are); or c) the painter messed-up the job.
Take this these thoughts and apply them to CRUSADE's quality before one
goes bashing TNT. I've heard a lot of indication from people many folks readers of this forum might recognize, all saying the "it's all TNT's fault" scenario doesn't play right - and is a grave disservice to truths which may soon be revealed...**Glen** -
Glen, while I think you have a good point, I would like to suggest a d) option: perhaps you insisted that the painter use a certain kind of paint & tools, ones the painter knew would result in a terrible, terrible job, but you held over the painter's the facts that you had all the money and it was your house and the painter would have to do it your way, and then you blame the painter when it turns out to be crap even though the painter gave you fair warning. My point is that while I don't think total TNT bashing is a good idea, it's possible that TNT did screw with things enough to make the end product worse than it might have been. Anyway, I've liked CRUSADE so far, but I'm always out to expand metaphors.
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Epsilon: you missed my point. The option that I had given the painter specific intructions or demands was left out for a reason.
Maybe I made a few suggestions, but I never made demands re: the paint job. Continue the metaphor & project onto CRUSADE...**Glen** -
Lets see if this weeks show stinks as bad as last weeks. If so you cant blame TNT for every episode being crap. I personally like the B5 Universe but I think it needs a few years rest.
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Folks, it very possible that what we're seeing unfold is a classic example of THE BLAME GAME, in which one party screwed up and wants to lay the blame at the door of another party.....Based on what iv'e seen so far JMS seesms to be playing this game with TNT. Everything that is bad about CRUSADE such as the "new" opening episode is laid at their doorstep, anything the fans like he takes credit for.....I've seen both "Racing the Night" and "Warzone" and without quesiton TNT was right to ask for a new opening episode. It's very possible that TNT saw what others have seen months ago and tried in their own way (rightly or wrongly) to fix the problem, but couldn'... The buck on the merits of CRUSADE stop with JMS, not matter how much he doesn't seem to want it................IMHO OF COURSE!
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In my opinion, the episode today was pretty damn cool. Although the plot was a little hokey, I thought that Galen was an awesome character and the effects were top notch. I'm a dragon freak and I loved the giant golden dragon especially when the ship flew through it and the picture flickered. Then, the little demons were top notch, flickering from real to fake. I can't wait to see the next after this one.
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Hey, this episode was pretty good except for the trash can clanging at the end as the ship warped off in to hyperspace. That clanging garbage gets under your spine. Ack!
If I had to nitpick at all, I would ask why do all technomages overact? (especially Galen) If they are so clever how come they haven't cured male pattern baldness?
I was entertained very much by the demon scene in the barn and on the EA Cruser when the captain sent the Leutenant down to the planet, that was fun.
dave -
Now that's much better. A good solid episode. Nice effects. And Galen rocks. And to those that don't like the music, I think it suits the show. Crusade is such a different creature than B5 was. If only it wouldn't end so soon.......
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Jun 16, 1999 8:16:45 PM CDT
Good episode...Why are they so blaise about the size of the ship
by psifi
I liked the Long Road...it was a nice Galen backstory episode without giving away too much of the Technomage mystery. It was also nice that only Galen and Gideon were featured...I like Gideon more all the time.
One thing though: Why are all the Earthforcers so blaise about the immenese size of the Excalibur. Hell even on an Explorer ship yoiu couldnt have a gym that huge especially with artifical gravity. -
I have to admit, Long Road is a bit of a conundrum for me. On one hand, there were a lot of elements that were downright hokey. On the other hand, this was such an enjoyable episode that I didn't care. I didn't see what Glen was saying about the dragon. It did not look at all as hokey as I'd been led to suspect. In fact, I thought it was rather cool. Not horrific, just as Alwyn put it, an archetypical dragon. The FX were good, but the music had moments where it made the show seem cheesier than it should be. Obviously, Evan Chen is getting better with the ins and outs of television scoring, but if he does that damn cheesy music thing one more time, I swear I'm gonna go ballistic. Other than that, this was a fun little episode that works nicely as an exposition of Galen and the Technomages. Of course, CRUSADE still shows the fact that it is a first year series, but I think all the comments that CRUSADE is poor quality are *way* overblown. I think it has to do with the fact that it's inevitably compared to B5, which B5 it isn't. I can only hope that Sci-Fi gives it the chance at a second season that it has already earned.
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It was a great improvement over last week's episode. Anybody notice a difference in the main theme?
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I enjoyed this episode, and did not think the FX looked like "Land of the Lost." It didn't bother me that the Dragon didn't look real, because it WASN'T. The music actually did not bother me nearly as much as last week and Call to Arms. I am suprised Glen so no potential in this series. I definitely see it, and I can't wait for next week's ep. which looks cool too. If only this show could've survived.
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I really enjoyed this episode much better than the first one. Effects wern't that great but "real" sci-fi is not about effects. Its about story. Can't wait till next week when we get to know some of the rest of the crew. As far as Gideon and Galen go A+.
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Glen, you speak as though Crusade is total crap and all those who love it or 'apologize' for it will see the 'truth' any day now. Tsk tsk! It's fair to say that Crusade is not for everyone, neither was B5. Crusade is a different creature than B5, it has more of a Fantasy angle to it imho. Isn't it possible that Crusade isn't your cup of tea and that it may be someone else's. As for "The Long Road," it was a nice allegorical romp. I loved the holodemon scene in the bar. Nice conversation amidst the horror unfolding before them. If all the episodes from here on out are as good as this one, I can't wait! Not to mention last week's ratings were fantastic from what I understand. 1.9 is only about .4 short of what wrestling usually draws in. Let's hope this is what is needed to give us 4-5 more years of Crusade!!
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Okay, I held back an opinion when I saw "War Zone", but after tonight I had to say something. First off, I was very impressed with everything about this episode. Very happy! I liked the fact it centered imcluded only two of the main cast, probably the two strongest characters. I'm liking Cole more and more, and if we are going to ever begin a debate of "Sinclair vs. Sheridan vs. Gideon" I believe Gary Cole has a strong lead very early in this race. The man is just a better actor than the other two and the character seems to allow him a lattitude to show that in this episode. He wasn't called on to be a man of action but at the same time, he was completly perrephrial. A good performance. Galen wasn't fleshed out in the first episode as well as in "A Call To Arms" and this episode allowed for the character to show himself a little more in the spotlight. Well writen, good dialog, and a clever resolution. I think this is some of the best sci-fi I've seen on TV since the Forth Season of B5 (And yes that was a diss againt Trek. I fyou honestly think the resolution of DS9 was good I've got a copy of TNG's "All Good Things..." I can lend you. That's the way to end a series and it's still better than any of the movies they've made to boot.)
What I really want to say is that the show is going to develop as we watch. Outside of the 13 episodes, does anyone who watched B5 honestly believe that they'll be searching for a cure until the last episode in 5 years? This plot is going to expand and become complicated, moving beyond the original focus. I'm upset that all we may get is 13 episodes because JMS understands the need, not just for the audience but for the story-teller, to expand and develop an epic. That's one of the reasons I no longer watch Trek. Things become redundant and stagnant. The possibilities of this show harken back to Trek's Original series which never suffered from pre-rendered boundries in which to tell a good sci-fi tale. I want this show to be given the chance to grow into itself, a chance that goes far beyond a single season.
As for the effects, they were alright if not rushed. They lacked the small details we've come to expect such as some workers in the CGI scene of the processing plant (there were none). Not condemnable details but subtlties we've come to expect.
Chen however is a different problem. The music must change. I am not as versed in the composser of B5 but I know the difference. Chen's scoring is like watching a Dr. Who episode, incindental music played on keyboards which really doesn't fit in anywhere. If there was one thing I can say negative is that Chen must go. Other than that, I think TV just got worth watching again.
One love, Zuba love. -
Not one but two wise sages spouting pithy aphorisms, heroic captain, boom, pow... everyone's happy. I'm only watching the next 11 because I can't believe that they can any worse...
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DR. JEKYLL wrote: Glen, you speak as though Crusade is total crap...
GLEN SAYS: Nope, I never said that. Don't even try to put words in my mouth. I said it was a very uneven show.
DR. JEKYLL wrote: and all those who love it or 'apologize' for it will see the 'truth' any day now. Tsk tsk! GLEN SAYS: the only "truth" I'm concerned with is for us to be *fair* and *responsible*
about where we lay blame for the show's faults should they choose to express any faults If so many people are going to hold TNT responsible
for CRUSADE's misfortunes...without knowing the whole story (and believe me, many people don't know the whole story)...then WE - as fans and viewers - should be equally as vigilant and responsible about treating people with justice and fairness. I.E. - if we *expect* TNT to treat CRUSADE with fairness, then we need to treat TNT with the same fairness - and keep our minds open to the possibiity TNT is not unilaterally responsible for whatever "problems" people may find in CRUSADE. If we don't, then we're living a double standard. Very much like JMS' initial posts re: THE WAR ZONE, in which he said the filming of a new pilot was neither here nor there, because it all came down to a matter of taste re: how to start the series. Then, a few hours before the show premiered last week, he turns around and acknowledges the episode's shortcomings - but blames TNT for them. How does it go from being no big deal - to blaming someone for one's own artistic failures?
THAT...is not fair. And THAT...is the "truth" I am concerned with. **Glen**
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I can understand why people are complaining about the music, but other than that, I think we are getting a great sci-fi show. These first 2 episodes are better than the first 2 episodes of almost any show I think. Especially this second episode. And the next one looks great too.
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While I do think that JMS should take his share of the blame for the show being less then perfect, and "The Long Road" is definately less than perfect, whatever. Two episodes in, and I like what I see. The show is less about the big themes than people dealing with the big themes. So rather then big speach, we see more action and reaction.
I like how for the most part, EA forces are still tight assed dorks who don't take the time to think a situation through. 5 years of the ISA has changed things, but not everything. The music is good on and off.. I like it when it gets funkier, but when it is just kind of drooping along it doesn't create atmosphere as much as go "bloop.bloop. bloop". And the locals in the episode were pretty mediocre. A little more rang for them would have helped.
But the leads were good,. the story enjoyable ( equal to a good TNG episode), and there was a lot of moral grey in this. So, two episodes out of 13 have been good. Save the show, I say.
As for placing the blame, I do agree that we shouldn't leave JMS out of the blame ring. Just remember he is speaking as someone involved in the process, and in his attempts to protect his property and creation, will skew things a bit. That being said, he has been more open then most creators about their projects, and even has stated when he thought things went wrong. So, with the blame, I give him most of the credit as well. -
I love Galen's dry sense of
humor or toungue-in-cheek humor. He kept me chuckling
throughout and the dragon is
a nice touch. I could watch this
show for 5 years! I still like
the music. We are going into the
21st century, you know! It was
nice to see The Equilizer back
doing his equilizing. A good
part for him. -
Glen here...I've noticed many people talking about how they wish CRUSADE would stay on longer. In the introduction to this TALKBACK, I have provided links to web sites which can tell you the best ways to keep CRUSADE on the air. Just in case you didn't catch that, and felt like being pro-active...**Glen**
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I'd just like to say that this episode was light years better than warzone. While Warzone felt rushed, flat and onedimensional, this ep showed some real ability to sit back and reflect. Plus, the fact that it focused on Gideon and Galen was great, instead of some of the worse characters introduced last ep, ie Dr chambers and that idiot Trace. The relationship between Galen and Gideon is something i'm looking forward to seeing in the rest of this series if it is ever made.
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Come on people all this was was a Star Trek Holodeck adventure? I hear people bitching and crying about how bad they hate holodeck adventures on Star Trek. This was a poor episode with a weak script. It was about the same as War Zone IMHO. Im not even going to start on the FX.
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Would someone please explain to me what a real Dragon looks like? I'm at a loss since I have never seen a real dragon before.....How does anyone know what a real dragon looks like anyway? Isn't it just a matter of what you imagine what a dragon would look like?
Anyway tonights episode was a definate improvement over War Zone. The first half hour drug on a bit I thought, the second half was great. Music still needs work (I like tunes and themes not randomness, I can't hum his music!! [But it don't matter what I think does it]). And I don't really think any of his music fits the setting, he had some gong show sounding crap in the middle of some scenes, and the damn pots and pans at the end of the episode. Technomages, I do hope to see some faults (in technology), not just a Draal that is a part of the crew that can solve problems when the writter runs out of ideas (Al la War Zone). I think it would have been more effective if the first technomage would have died. I thought Gideon had some balls there for a second by blowing his ass away, but now it seems like he knew what was up and it sort of killed that for me. And oh yeah I thought I saw this episode when I saw Insurection over the winter as well. (Planet has magic cure for all diseases, some one tries to take it, other people think they are morally superior and try to stop them). -
Well, I have to say I actually ENJOYED this episode. I've been a big B5 fan since the word "go" back in january of 1993. I love the series and in my mind, JMS can do very little wrong. (grinds teeth at this comment) anyway, this episode wasn't that bad. Whereas "War Zone" was like a breath of stale air after having to hold my breath since the end of November, "The Long Road" was like less stale air. The plot isn't all that great still, but it's only the second ep, give it some time. The Woodward boys made me laugh, really, they did. At the end, when Aylen (whatever) supposedly "died" they actually got me, I thought he was dead. Again, this ep was a light-hearted romp. good job folks.
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This weeks Crusade was better than "War Zone" IMHO, but that's not saying much. It still was a rather thin story, and not very interesting. And the virtual effects (specially the city) looked TERRIBLE (it looked like a bad, small plastic model). And I am not sure about the music. I do not hate it as some do, but it still doesn't quite work. But to me, at moments, it hints at something VERY interesting. Given enough chance it may have become one of the shows strongest elements.
We'll see about next week, but so far IMHO Crusade is DOA. -
For those who said Wresteling only draws a 2.5 is dead wrong.
Nitro's low was about 3.7 and its been as high as 6.0. On average its around 4.0 - 5.0.
Thunder on TBS low was about 3.3 to a high of some where around high 5's to 6. It averages somewhere between 3.5 - 4.0.
Raw on USA gets about 4.0 - 6.0 dependings. Usally around the 4.0 to 5.0 range as well.
1.9 is a far cry from Wrestlings average. -
Well, because of scheduling problems at home, I didn't see "War Zone" until last night. Then I got to follow it up immediately with "The Long Road."
My first impressions: if you didn't see "A Call to Arms," then WZ probably wasn't a very good episode. You had no idea who this strange thief woman was or why this technomage was hanging around now. The techies didn't get much impact with the ship, and the only character with enough screen time of their own was the captain (at least he was pretty good with what he had). On the other hand, if you have been watching B5 for 5 years, and seen all the movies, then WZ was OK. That's about all. OK. Its rare for a scifi/fantasy show to do better than OK with their first episode (only Buffy springs to mind--the first eps was great).
Then along came "The Long Road." I must admit some bias going in--I am a long time Equalizer fan. Having the son as a regular is great, but having the man himself as a guest was fantastic. Woodward Sr. did his usual excellent job. Every line he delivers (whether hokey or not) comes out beautifully. The scenes between father and son were the best part of the show. Luckily, they were also about half the show (or so it seems). The best scene of the episode has to be the demons in the bar. Watching and listening to their commentary while the fight is going on is much more effective (and funny) than watching a big fight. None of the conversations between the three main characters seem forced. All three actors are to be commended.
As for the music, which everyone else seems to gripe about, I haven't noticed anything bad at all. In fact, I haven't really paid much attention to the music. This is a good thing. The score should always add to the overall enjoyment without calling attention to itself. The only times I remember "hearing" the music are at the end of each episode. I liked it.
What remains to be seen is the quality of the rest of the episodes. If they are like WZ, end it. If they are ANYWHERE near "The Long Road," please give us more!
My two cents.
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A better episode by far, and it has what B5 also needed to take time to develop, which was interesting banter and interaction between characters. It took B5 at least a season to put together any interesting stories (Babylon Squared being the exception), and most of the stories were interesting when viewed in the context of where they ultimately led, not when first viewed. Think about Londo's throwaway laugh line in the first or second episode about his dream that he and G'Kar would die with their hands around each others' throats, and where that ultimately led. I'm not claiming that we are missing something profound here, only that we don't yet know if we are because we haven't had the chance to see how things are going to develop (and may never if it gets killed). And in regards to the Insurrection comparison, if the film's plot had been less strewn with gaps you could drive the Defiant through, it might have been much more successful. Long Road was nothing new, but for a one hour TV episode, it's not half bad either.
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Here ere cable ratings (top 15) for the recent weeks before "WarZone". ---
http://www.ultimatetv.com/news/nielsen/cable/990531cable.html --- As you see during this comparable period (not sweeps) wrestling on TNT only got 2.8 - 2.3. On TBS it is worse. -
...by how much I enjoyed "The Long Road". Again, I praise Glen for his service in lowering the bar of expectations. Is this as good as B% at its best? No. Of Course Not. Is it great science fiction television nonetheless? Absolutely! I would rate the 2 Crusade Eps I have seen well above any TV SF I've seen of late. I love both Trek and B5, but only a few Voyager or DeepSleep 9 Eps have ever entertained me as well as these first two.
I didn't think I was going to like Gary Cole as the Captain, Matthew Gideon, but he has won me over quickly. This was a Galen/Gideon episode, timeless...it could be an ep occuring any time this season...but I've always been partial to gold dragons as well, all things being, er, ahem...Equal. -
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I'm really starting to like both Gideon and Galen. I also found myself wishing Woodward Sr. would stick around as Alwyn. Favorite scene: the demons in the tavern. I hope the rest of the series is this good.
-Mark -
a far improvment over the WarZONE episode...needs less Chen music...but he's improving. So what will they do now? every plot revolves around getting a cure for Earth right? ok i say we just use our imagination and say that...WOW, they found a cure!! all the lives were saved and everybody was happy.....
11 more to go!!!!! -
The second episode was much
more convincing, excellent
special effects and emotional
content. The acting was very
good, though I missed Dureena.
If they were all this good, it'd
be a crime to cancel it. With
B5 gone, if this doesn't make it
there won't be any quality
sci-fi left on TV, excepting
X-Files.
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Just finished watching "The Long Road", and I must say that was a super cool episode, miles above "War Zone"!! (What a diffence without TNT meddling, eh?) This is Strazcynski at his best: great characters, good plot, superb dialog, and unexpected twists. I love the way his guest characters are often his best: that technomage was awesome (nice acting). My favorite scene was when the two technomages were nonchalantly discussing the design of the demons while the soldiers were getting their butts kicked. I was laughing my ass off. I'll be a happy man if the rest of the series is half as good as this episode. Oh, and damn TNT once again for cancelling Crusade. The bastards.
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This doesn't really need to be restated but last week JMS posted to usenet that the first episode was written with alot of TNT influence. He specificly mentions this week's episode and points out that it will be fun. It is. And what he said about last week's episode seems very true, there was definitly a not so JMS paceing to last week's (mainly in the dialogue) that was completely missing from this week's. It looks to me like Glen's take is that since he personaly doesn't like the new show then JMS's credibility is destroyed. I liked tonight's episode more then just a little. Too bad the first of the major arc episodes was one of the episodes to get canceled. Anywho, I see some of the replys are biased towards how Glen saw the show. Here's what I saw...
Special effects are still improving over B-5. It's not "photorealistic" but how many full blown 3-D landscapes did you see in the course of the original series? I'm not talking about the static FX shots, like the Palace at Centauri Prime. It looks like every episode of this show will require many large scale landscape FX shots, so I'm not expecting SW:TPM here. The show IS just getting started. Or is there something in Crusade we should compare to the Pod Race scene from Star Wars?? Crusade should at least be that good right?
The Dragon was pretty cool it got my attention (I was not expecting it since I hadn't read the individual review for that episode yet from Glen's report). The rendering of the EA ships in orbit looked clean. I liked the explosion from the main gun firing on the mine, that was an excelent composite shot. The music fit this episode well. All in all I'm pretty jazzed about the show. But as it was mentioned last week I'm probably just trying to hang onto my devotion to B-5 and missing this show's shortcomings. Err... yeah... :)
I think some of the poeple here should relax and let the show take them along instead of thinking that where they stand is where the show should be.
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To those who think that JMS should shoulder more blame for WZ, well, when someone tells you to open your first episode with a fight scene, that IS having someone looking over your shoulder. According to a JMS Usenet posting, that's EXACTLY what TNT said - open the series with a fistfight.
And the new ep was NOT a 'holodeck' episode - or did that poster completely miss the moral dilemmas presented on both sides? I mean, do you kill a small colony to help save the life of the mother planet - trading hundreds or thousands of lives for billions. If you only saw 'a holodeck episode' you were only looking at the FX, IMO, and not paying attention to the dialog. -
Say you want a painting. So, you call up a man named Salvador Dali. And you tell him you want a series of paintings of your family. So he starts to paint. But they are surreal. So you tell him, "No, I want something more realistic." He understands your desires, and explains that this is not how he works. But he tries. Of course these are not going to be up to snuff, because he is working out of his element.
JMS and TNT are probably just a bad match, ideologically. They don't have enough in common to work together. not bad, not good, but a simple reality. (Like the reality that "All Good Things" was a DEEPLY flawed piece of drek with vast plot holes in it. Check out a Nitpicker's Guide if you have to.)
Personally, I liked Last night's ep. fun in all the right ways, a classic tale of the town wizard, played well. -
Over and over one sees here in the
talk back people saying that there is really nothing out there now that is real sci-fi. Has anyone here watched Farscape or First Wave on Sci-Fi on Fri. nights? These are two of the best original show to come out in some time. And the effects and creatures on Farscape are fantastic. My point is, before you blast everything else out there or say that nothing else exists, look first. -
Hello,
I have seen this story in MANY different forms and i am sick of it! Can we have some originallity please! I could not watch past the part were the bad earthforce guys were hurting the environment...I mean how cliche can you get!
I will give each episode a chance but the stories better improve. It almost seemed like a bad episode of Star Trek. As long as it is original...
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VORPAL wrote: It looks to me like Glen's
take is that since he personaly doesn't like the new show then
JMS's credibility is destroyed. GLEN says: NO WHERE did I say this, an no-where did I imply this. It's not an issue of *credibility*, it's an issue of *accountability*. Tell ya what - next time someone puts words in my mouth...or tries to create me as having said anything than what was actually said...they get deleted.
**Glen** -
Zathras like this epsiode better than War Zone and hopes to never see Tim Thomerson again outside of standup comedy. More drama at the final confrontation would have been better though. The EA captain believes Alwyn can destroy the ship just because Gideon says so. In turn, Gideon blows up Alwyn (not really) just because the captain asks. If a powerful bolt of energy narrowly missed the ship, it would have justified the captain's being so easily duped. And if Gideon had resisted the request to fire, it would have made it seem more realistic. WE will never really know if he had the power to destroy the ship at all. He just did some wizardly stuff down in the mine that looked like a Nintendo 64 graphic. Of course, Zathras knew Alwyn was not dead. In fact, Zathras would have been pissed if Alwyn had not come out of the bushes at the end. Zathras is big fan of Equalizer and glad to see the Great Hammy One in action again.
PLOT HOLE ALERT: If the mine workers have no resistance to the compound and are working right over the hole without breathing apparatus, wouldn't they all be VERY sick and dying?
Zathras still waiting for Matheson to do something besides looking cool. Maybe next week.
Finally, Zathras wonder if TNT suggest dressing Gideon up like a cowboy. No...not good...never do that!
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TLR was even more boring and inane than WZ. Crusade is such a step down from B5 (which was wonderful) that my head is spinning. Even the CGI has gone down the crapper. No wonder they dropped Babylon from the title!
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I enjoyed this ep., though it was flawed. I think that most shows have flawed episodes, especially to start with, and as far as new series go, CRUSADE is better than most. Granted, I'm biased being the B5 fan that I am, but oh well. Some things did bother me, however. 1)I'm sick of people talking about giving up technology, bla bla bla, and then living with things like candles, farming tools & buttons (all technology. I wish someone would point this out to the proper people). 2)Perhaps this is nit-picking, and I don't know who's to blame, but did anyone else notice that the candles in the inn seemed to be magic (they never burned down, even though Gideon and Galen had supposedly been sitting there for a really long time). 3)Finally, to write the hostage note, where did the anti-technology farmers get a laser printer? All in all, the story was good. Galen no longer seems a sucky Jedi. I'm really digging Gideon & I'm liking the fact that these seem to be intimate, character-driven stories and not space battle of the week crap. I'm looking forward to the next 11. And I want the soundtrack album. Chen rocks, I don't know know what the Chen bashers are talking about. Viva la ambient music!
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All this debate over whether this was Crusade's version of a Star Trek holodeck episode! It's not, of course. It's obviously Crusade's "Star Trek: Insurrection"... Save the agrarians from the misguided home team.
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!!!!SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately, my vcr cut off the last 1-5 minutes of "Long Road" The last thing I saw was Galen talking to who, apparently, did not perish in the Excaliber bombing (no big surprise here). He tells Galen something about ebing at home or whatever- I forget- Can someone please fill me in on what happened from that scene on (was it the last scene)? -
This episode was a step up from Warzone, and it really showed the potential of what Crusade could have become. I am also getting sick and tired of all of this nitpicking! Jeez stop comparing it to trek or the old B5! If you are a true fan just enjoy the show, or better yet those of u who are so good at destroying the stories, why don't u start writing some! I am a fan of Trek, B5 and other sci-fi stuff. Lets not kid ourselves all tv series have flaws! OH yea, I agree with the guy who said there are other Sci-Fi shows out there. FARSCAPE IS A GOOD QUIRKY SHOW! I agree with everyone that Crusade has flaws, but it is only the 2nd of 13 episodes. Lets enjoy! Oh yea...Evan Chen..your getting better baby! That music had me feeling some drama and tension. And I can honestly say I thought your score of A Call to Arms was okay, and your score of WARZONE was terrible, but you were hitting on all cylinders with The Long Road. Hey everyone, I do enjoy reading the talkbacks, but lighten up!
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I thought that the episode tonight was much better then the first one under TNT's direction.. I for one hope someone else picks up the series..
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This series is shaping up, in the first two eps, to be quite likable. Blah blah blah "B5 started out bad" blah blah blah...that's obvious and a point that has been done to death, but all good series, ultimately, start out bad. The ones that start out GREAT end up being hated ultimately and have people wishing their quick demise while they air for another 10 years. Just give it time, please. The people I watch this show with are all musicians with various talents and we all agree that that, as one poster put it, the "klanging garbage cans" have to go. Evan Chen's music is very evocative and enticing when used as small underpinning to the main action or plot, but tends to fall on it's face when used as an overlay (e.g. battle scene in the first ep) since it doesn't evoke any strong (or recognizable) emotions in the viewer. Also, that oriental-type synth klanging simply jars the viewer's brain at a time when the music should be settling them (mainly when used at the end of the two eps and CtA movie). Watch ER or X-files, for example, as listen to how the music, if used at all, underpins the scenes until major plot points or action when it cranks up and compliments the emotion trying to be invoked by the actors and director. The acting is good. Nothing outstanding comes to mind yet, but time will settle these actors into their roles (time being more than 13 eps...usually takes at LEAST a full season for an actor to "fit" into their role and another season for all the actors to "fit" together). The plots so far...first ep was a bit jarring as there was no "changing of the guard" from old to new (see DS9 pilot for example). If we had been dumped in the middle of the action as first intended, you wouldn't think about transition since you would be trying to keep up with the new plot. However, on this "new revamped" intro episode (the only decision I will blatently blame TNT for as being dumb) we are placed almost back-to-back with the old series, and yet not given any clear plot ties to B5, Sheridan, or anything. Some parts of that plot seemed disjointed becuase of it's nearness to the movie. The second ep, the plot was OK (mediocre at times), but the acting I felt made up for it. This could have been just another farmers/ranchers vs big business or little guy squashed by big guy ep, but the acting and, to some extent, directing was able to show us different aspects of the story (the part I particularly liked was the bar room scene with the daemons where you really didn't see much of the fight....loved it!). Overall, still worth watching and supporting, regardless of what some people say. My advice, freely given, is ignore what is said by ANYONE in any authority regarding these eps (including AICN and COAXIAL who seriously colored the opinions badly before the first show...and only now people are starting to realize that it aint as bad as was told to them...if you don't believe, do a general comparison between both ep's TALKBACKS...better, more though out opinions are appearing this week). Bravo for the independent thinker!!!
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I didn't see the first ep. of Crusade, but I have to say that this one was lame. Someone said that Sliders blew, well this ep could easilly have been an ep. of Sliders in my opinion.
First, I hate the Technomages. IT is just such a pretentious concept. OK, so these guys do this stuff with technology, (i did like the scene when the two of them talked about how he edited the program) and try to make it look like magic, but the name of their group gives away the fact that they are doing it with technology. Really subtle there. And what exactly is their point for being all Vorlon wanna-be? I didn't like them in the B5 ep they were in.
Second, like almost every sci-fi I've seen (in fact all that I can remeber) JMS treated a whole entire planet like it was just one town just like he did in B5. This is a fairly small conlony right, so instead of spending a couple of weeks finding another place to mine we'll just do it right next to these people. That makes a lot of sense. And I would think that in teh future a mining operation would be efficient enough that they wouldn't let lots and lots of what they were trying to mine just get into the air. I mean, hell, gold mines are so efficient that they are going back through the rubble that gold mines from the past threw away to extract ten or twenty pounds of gold per ton. I would think that in the future mining would be able to get even the most miniscule portions of the ore they were after.
third, the mine just happens to be a parabolic dish??? I can't imagine why the mage would need a dish to focus his powers. Second, he would have to be in the loci of the parabola for that to work. Look at a satalite dish. Most of them are parabolic. The end of the arm sticking out of the dish is the loci. It is the focus point of the dish. IF you aren't in the focus it's (not surprisingly) out of focus. The mage guy was just standing there, so he couldn't have been focusing his powers. And was anyone surprised when the guy wasn't dead? When they went to shoot him, I said to myself, "Self, they ain't gonna kill him."
OVerall, this episode reminded me of that episode of Battlestar Galactica where one of them got stranded on a planet and a Cylon was their sheriff.
I agree with a couple of others who recommended Farscape. IMHO, that show is the best Sci-Fi on TV today. -
IMHO, Long Road was about 10 times better than War Zone. As far as I'm concerned, you can watch Call to Arms, then go right to Long Road. Did anybody catch the bit about Elric, the technomage from the B5 ep, Geometry of Shadows? Very cool tie-in.
I'll tell you right know that I think Gary Cole has M. O'Hare and Bruce the Box beat in the acting department.
After WZ, I was thinking that this was not a particularly cool show, but I'm willing to sign on if there's more like this one.
Toodles.
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My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I love the mix of magic and technology, very classy, and I loved all the humor. The effects were fabulous, none of them stuck out or looked amateurish (which I could not say about the first ep.) and the story moved along quite nicely. I found myself wanting to know more about the inner workings of the technomages. The point about Olwyn staying his welcome too long, was well done. I loved how Gideon was acted, a very likable yet confident character and one I could get used to. All my fears from watching the first episode, have been allayed.
In regards to Glen, (Yes, I'm risking deletion) he's seen the whole thing, and I think he's entitled to his opinion about the show. But from the episodes I've seen thusfar, he was far too harsh on it. When a show gets started its bound to have unpleasant bounces as actors, writers, and all the rest get a feel for the new show. I thought this episode was flawless in presentation of a new concept and new characters. It's a great introductory episode, and leaves me hungry for more. Perhaps I'm a bit slow, and those who criticize (not speaking of Glen, but Talkback doesn't allow new paragraphs, so ... ) the show think the episode was trite, or they have the characterization down and don't need to see these types of interractions and character developments, but this is the stuff I loved about B5, and I think it worked its magic in this episode of Crusade. Best regards, Raymond... -
I really don't care whose fault it is, they missed a great opportunity to present a well thought out and well presented series.
It's the second show of the series and Galen and Gideon are too chummy, too familiar. I was really looking forward to the crew dymanic of them getting to know each other. But here we are with Gideon and Galen going down to a planet by themselves. Just great. Where's the rest of the crew? It would have been nice to see some of them in this episode.
They could have built this show slowly and developed the characters the right way. I have no idea why they decided to do what they did but they missed the boat BIG TIME. I really want to support the show and was greatly dissappointed to see that TNT had cancelled the series. But if this is the quality of the shows that they are going to produce, then maybe it isn't all that bad that it was cancelled. It would be too painfull to slog through five years of the crap that they have shown us so far.
My hope is that another network picks up the series and helps guide the production of the rest of the shows to make sure that it realizes the tremendous potential for greatness that it has.
Also, the techno music was great in A Call to Arms as well as in the Intro. BUT it is starting to get real old. Don't get rid of it, just get better scoring and integration into the story. It doesn't fit right now. -
It was so nice to hear the references to Elric the original Technomage, and to see the Omegas in orbit (not to mention all the officers in EA uniforms). I finally felt like I was watching a continuation of B5 and not just some vague new show. Overall, I enjoyed it a great deal, especially considering it only focused on two cast members. And the music is growing on me-- as some have said, there are moments when I hear something prominent in the score, and think, "Cool!" Unfortunately, so much of the rest is so understated... maybe I've just been brainwashed by Chris Franke's booming, hummable themes and can't appreciate subtlety... I'll give this one a B.
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I hear people say they should be doing more by the fact that they only have 13 episodes, don't they understand that it got cancelled after the first 13 had been filmed? And the fact that Galen and Gideon look like they've already gotten to know eachother is because this epiosde was filmed later on in the season. Oh well, what can you do...
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I think some people are expecting a "Severed Dreams" or "Coming of Shadows" in every episode. When your expectations get too high, then you are bound to be disappointed. This happens to me all the time. Whenever I get excited about a new movie or show, I'm almost always let down. So now, I try not to expect to much from anything new. The Matrix was a surprise for me cause I wasn't expecting anything from it. I am doing this with Crusade. And it just keeps getting better each week. So if you people want to keep seeing this show, visit those sites Glen posted, and send some mail to those idiots running the TV stations. Let them know that it isn't just a small bunch of fanatics who want to watch Crusade. I for one would love to see 5 years of the Excalibur.
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The relationship between Gideon and Galen isn't at all what I expected. They are much more friends than I'd believed they'd be. They're much more like Gerabaldi and Marcus Cole than Sheridan and Kosh. That's a relief too because Galen's got much more flavor than I thought he'd have. The FX still need work, but this was a fun episode. When Alwin reappeared at the end, it got me. I had an investment with the story and characters that I don't have in Voyager. WELL DONE JMS, KEEP IT FUN AND INVOLVING LIKE THIS!
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I want to love this show, I really do. I was a die-hard fan of B5, even the last season which admittedly could have been much better.
But I just don't like Crusade.
What I like- it feels like a role-playing game. We've got the fighter, the leader, the wizard; everybody's got their individual shtick. The "campaign" has a long-reaching goal, and some really bad guys to play the villains. There's a lot of potential here.
However...
What I DON'T like- the special effects. Everytime we see a long shot of an effect, it looks like a 3-foot model. There's no real distance blurring, the textures are unimaginative, and the design just doens't make sense. (Like that damn stripmine- why do you need to have that arch over it?)
I do this sort of thing for a living- I'm a 3D modeler and animator, but I'm normally not too picky. Babylon 5's fx were almost always absolutely amazing, and I loved 'em. Crusade's, on the other hand, feel like something that was thrown together in as short a time as possible- there's no sense of love for the job. For instance- in the pilot episode, there's a view of the surface of Mars; and it's done with what looked like a procedural bump map called Cellular. I've nothing against this paricular texture, I use it a lot. But the FX artists just plugged it in, without the tweaking that's necessary to make it look real. Planetary surfaces just don't look like that, sorry.
The Dragon had basically the same problem- I didn't look at that say, "That's real." Some say that's the point, that it's not supposed to be real, 'cause it's an illusion. But the point it that it's SUPPOSED to LOOK real, and it doesn't. That dragon looked incredibly cheesy.
Also, not to nitpick (or maybe, what the hell), was anybody NOT expecting there to be a TechnoMage behind all the shenanigans? I mean, come on, Captain- A giant dragon that breathes fire that doesn't do any damage, vital parts being replaced by peanut butter or fusing in place, your own TechnoMage hints that there's something down there that he knows about, and you're surprised that it's another TechnoMage? This guy's not the sharpest tack in the bunch, is he? -
The ratings you listed were for one particular week, also I think I should point out that Nitro is 3 hours long and they're ratings for that week were very bad. Nitro used to average around a 4.5 sometimes going as high as 6. Lately though they've been getting killed by their competition (the WWF) who have been averaging around 6.5, while WCW's ratings have fallin to around a 3.5 sometimes dipping to 2.8. This is the lowest their ratings have been in two years. Needless to say neither WCW nor TNT thinks well of the show doing this badly. Anyway, a 1.9 is by no means bad, just nowhere near what they expect from their major wrestling show nor is it as high as what B5 used to get on TNT(which was close to a 3). On another note, how is it that A Call To Arms gets a 2.8 without any promotion while with promotion Crusade only gets a 1.9?
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I enjoyed the 2nd ep., it expanded the character of Galen and explained his background, meanwhile you had a chance to learn more about what kind of a man Captain Gideon is. I particularly loved the "chummy" scenes between Gideon and Galen, the rapport between the two had me chuckling also, just great. Can't wait till the scenes between Galen and the rest of the crew, especially Eilerson (sp?). I agree with rayb, the Techomages do add a unique dimension to the show.
I've enjoyed both eps, they are great introduction shows, especially if you have not seen Babylon5. The music is too cool! Out of this planet! Someone described it as Alien (I hesitate to say who in case I'm wrong) but thankyou for that very fitting description.
Yes, I want to see more.
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so far i mostly agree with the general assessment of Crusade: not as good as B5, but much better than just about anything else on right now. i was -->this
but there *is* a better show on right now (IMHO): Farscape. even my friend who's never satisfied by anything [we asked him last week to name a TV show he didn't think was cheesy, lame, crappy, or [insert derogatory generalization], and he couldn't] grudgingly admitted he thinks it's pretty good. of the 8 episodes aired so far only one was a dud. even the intro ep was OK. morally ambiguous characters and lots of interesting character development. good plots (including the best "time-paradox" plot i've seen since Dr. Who). gorgeous sets (this is one area where it blows away anything i can remember seeing on TV--except perhaps the Tardis in the Fox Dr. Who pilot). the only issue my friend has is the muppets. personally, having seen The Dark Crystal, Farscape, Dragonslayer, B5, Crusade, Dragonheart, and The Phantom Menace, i find a good muppet *way* more believable than all but the *very* best CGI (and Farscape also uses CGI aliens when appropriate), but YMMV.
my letters are going in the mail this weekend to try and make sure Crusade and Farscape *both* have long and happy lives. -
I used to be a B5 fanatic. I used to love JMS, his attitudes, his writing, his ideals. But I've discovered something in Crusade that I never noticed in B5, but perhaps should have:
The guy can't write dialogue. I'm sorry, it's just so stilted, hackneyed and poor. It's not natural. One could say that he is writing it with a playwright's sensibilities, but one would be forgetting the fact that he's not writing a play - he's writing for television, a completely different medium. TV in the 50s was like this, and it changed, and now it just doesn't work anymore. People expect realistic dialogue, not what JMS has been giving us.
In addition, the music is still atrocious (I flirted with the idea of muting my TV and watching the closed captioning) and the CGI, while groundbreaking 6 or 7 years ago, looks the same and really just isn't that impressive anymore. In fact, it now looks WORSE than models, and FAR worse than DS9's effects, which used to suck in comparison to B5. That mine was just laughable. The dragon was even worse. -
This was a better episode but it still doesn't have the same draw as B5 for me. The pilot of B5 raised many questions and each new episode answered a few and raised several more. I found The Long Road to be a cute but very predictable episode.
The FX seem to be significantly more primative than those of B5. I found the dragon effect to be remarkably "cartoony" and not very threatening. The demons were quite nice on the other hand.
I'm still not appreciating Chen's "music" very much. It has its moments but I consider it more sound effects than music.
The finale with Alwyn threatening to attack the EA cruiser felt all wrong. Especially considering that we know that illusion is a main part of a TechnoMage's ability, the EA commander seemed far too easily convinced he was in danger. I also wonder if afterwards the commander realized that he may have been duped. (That would have been a nice touch.)
Not a horrible episode but I would put it on the same level as B5's "Infection". (Cheesy special effects and formula plot with some interesting character development.) -
When I saw the promos for TLR last week I sighed, remembering so many crap ST episodes like this. When I sat down to watch the episode I brought a book with me, I was expecting to be bored.... but I wasn't, I watched it all the way through and ENJOYED it. They explored the technomages and showed that Earthforce is willing to be a little brutal to find the cure. The interaction between the father and son team was awesome, both class acts. I'm sorry, if you don't like the special FX, but at least we get some of them, in ST:TNG and spinoffs the FX was so expensive they hardly ever used it, and those shows get 2 or 3 times the money that B5 or Crusade gets -imagine if B5 had twice the budget for every show!! *sigh* Crusade is improving and I dare any of you to disagree, yes I acknowledge Warzone was kinda lame, but I believe that was up to the bogeyman of TNT. I just wish we were going to see more of this series!!! To all the Farscape fans out there... I wish I COULD watch sci-fi, but no cable channel in Tucson offers it... they all want you to shell out for digital cable... sigh again!!!
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The 2nd episode of crusade was MUCH better than the first. It was pretty good. Room for improvement still, IMHO, but overall, very good. THe first one sucked, but I'm starting to be impressed with the show after this episode.
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Orac_uk wrote: "However, it seems to me that Glenn [sic] really has severe problems with Crusade that no one eles [sic] is picking up on... I don't like this implication Glenn [sic] that you "know the full story" whilst the rest of us know nothing. If you know something, then tell us, but if it revolves around the petty artistic arguments against JMS and TNT then keep it to yourself." There's nothing to "pick up on." Glen could not be any clearer about the problems with Crusade. He has said it is uneven, but time and time again cautioned us to draw our own conclusions. Heck... I sat in the same room with him and watched two of the episodes, and while I agree that the show is uneven, I disagreed with him about other things. The show isn't up to the quality level of B5. Furthermore, the "petty artistic arguments" you refer to aren't petty at all. If they are someone's reactions, then so be it. As such, they ought to be included in honest discussions of the show. To censor comment just because those comments may be inconvenient for some does not further a genuine dialogue about the show's merits, or lack thereof.
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"dink dink dink dankdankdank....donkdonk....DODODODODODOD...dinkdink....dinkdink....dank....binkbink binkbink....bank...bankbankbankbank....dinkdink...dinkdinkdink....donkdonk....dankdank....dodo...dinkdink...dododo...dinkdink..." how can you guys HONESTLY hate this great theme? --McK
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I've really enjoyed these first two episodes. I don't find the music as annoying as some do - I really like it in fact. The more rhythmic feel and its eastern modalism underscores the fact that Crusade is not intended to be B5 - the story is a journey around the galaxy encountering other races and cultures, and does not have a single geographical or spiritual center, which the station itself provided in B5.
Some of the interchange between Alwyn and the indigenous folk was a little cheesy - the acting on the part of the burly father was not that good. And, frankly, you knew Allwyn was not going to die when Excalibur fired - a technomage isn't really going to die onscreen. They're still too mysterious and powerful for that, at least at this point. But what a great device for taking out the mine, accomplished at EarthForce's own hands.
Speaking of which, the background afforded to the technomages was quite interesting. I've been intrigued by the idea that their use of tech "simulates" magic. Why would they be interested in "simulating" magic - is there something about their culture or spirituality oriented toward making outsiders think things about them that aren't true?(Obviously so) So what do they really believe, beneath it all, and how do they relate to each other using it? Also, we've only seen human technomages. In b5 season 2 Londo specifically says of Elric "this one is human," implying that there are techno-mages who are not human. So perhaps they comprise a larger order than one might suspect, but you've got to wonder how humans got mixed up with a mega-advanced technological order that's been around for centuries at least. That must be some incredible backstory.
Raising questions about Galen. Just how powerful is he? JMS wrote about Jason Ironheart that he wasn't comfortable with an omnipotent character because he unbalanced things to much. While Galen isn't omnipotent, if he is shown to be _too_ powerful he could amount to a deus ex machina element that might cop out on some of the drama. I kind of doubt this will happen, knowing JMS, but as the mystery surround technomages clears, I wonder what we'll see.
The dragon was cool and if not entirely convincing looking, it was _supposed_ to be a hologram.
The CGI has been inconsistent. The space scenes look great, the landscape scenes are pretty but not necessarily convincing.(I say convincing rather than realistic because how do we know what a planetscape many light years way would look like?) The one long tracking shot of the mine in _Long Road_ did look like a photograph - of a model on a table. I literally fully expected as the camera panned to see the main characters standing around the table discussing their plan of attack.
So I've liked the first 2 eps, but I'm eager to see what's yet to come. It would be tragic for the series not to continue if there's an arc anywhere near as good as B5's. I am hoping to see more of the familiar races - Minbari, Drazi, Centauri, etc- in future eps. If the series goes beyond ep13, I hope there will be a more detailed look at some of the familiar races, perhaps from a quite different perspective than in b5. Of course, I hope there will be plenty of new stuff as well.
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I haven't seen the second eipsode
yet,but the fact that some people are already whining about this
new series makes me laugh for one
VERY good reason.This is only the
SECOND eipsode people.Lord above,
you'd think an entire season had
come and gone.You have to have
more patience.Very few shows are
great,after only the two eipsodes.
And this show is no different.If
at the end of the season(kind of
pointless here,seeing as only 13 got filmed)the general feeling was
that the show was lacking,then fine.But to tear a show apart after the 2nd eipsode is competely
unfair to the show and it's makers -
MUCH better! This is more like it! Not one of the greatest eps, but miles ahead of 'filler' like WZ. This is real JMS stuff - not TNT. I'm looking forward to more...(although it was too bad about Elric :-( - he was one of my favorite 'guest characters'!)
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I wasn't suggesting that those who disliked Crusade should be censored. I actually thought that Glen's original review was fascinating. You say that Crusade was badly produced (or words to that effect) compared to B5.
Well, I can't confirm or deny that statement as I haven't seen it. But most of the postings above really enjoyed it! B5 had some "badly made" episodes well into it's run, its just one of those things. Time, budget, late re-writes etc. Grey 17 is Missing, Racing Mars to name but two. It happens full stop. The War Zone suffered because it was a last minute addition, an additional episode which JMS had creative problems with. To be honest, most people are not bothered about the creative differences because we have heard all about it since last December. Fact is, JMS has still managed to knock something out despite all the problems that most viewers/fans seem to be enjoying! Glen tells us that we don't know the half of it - so what? We've got 12 episodes (forget TNT's War Zone), 6 of which will probably be very, very good with the other six being average. Let's just enjoy it, be critical at the things that don't work, and praise the good stuff.
The show has a great premise and a even better cast. Let's take a step back from JMS VS TNT, because the truth is that none of us can imagine the daily battles between the creative lot and the suits (except those who are lucky enough to work on such projects!). -
Er Beserker mate...had it not occured to you that people above actually enjoyed Crusade? Nothing to do with fanboyism which you display so well when it comes to defending every lame Trek spin-off!
Another thing, you rip B5/Crusade apart. Odd how you keep tuning in to every new episode every week!
Something must be making you switch over to TNT to catch Crusade! As JMS used to say about B5 "If they watch three episodes in a row, we've got them for life!"
Keep watching!!!!!!! :)))) -
THAN CRUSADE -- which isn't bad. I have watched both episodes and thought TLR was much better than the "pilot." I like B5 and Crusade the same way I like Dr. Who and Blake's 7. The FX really suck, but they are trying to tell a story that could be good. I don't like that Sci-fi Channel stuff -- It has an even lower budget. B5 could never compete with Star Trek for FX. ST simply has more money... and it's obvious. Cole and the Woodwards are all good actors. The woman who plays Dureena seems competent as well, but the rest of the cast looks like driftwood. I agree with every point Glenn has made. He is 100% right. And I find it interesting that even the B5 fanboys seems reticent to like the show. It's an obvious sign of weakness when half of your fanbase is unhappy with a show. Face it, people -- this show is dead in the water. (But, like I said, the actors are like driftwood, so it fits.)
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I liked it and I like this show. Crusade has the ability to make me love this show.
-Again Even Chen must go. Christopher Franke rules and his music adds to the show. Chen's music distracts and annoys.
-Its nice to see all those leftover STARSHIP TROOPERS helmets are getting used. I believe I have seen them on a Fox Kids tv show too.
-I love the technomages and the two Woodwards. The technomage adds a nice touch / a wizard to this type of show and the idea of magic is a great addition.
Sci - Fi Channel SAVE THIS SHOW !!!!
Brian -
Let's see if this makes it past the (seemingly ever-thinning skinned) censor.
I read the reviews and these talkbacks every week and this is the first time I was prompted to talkback myself. Glen wrote: >
I didn't see the comments involved at all as someone trying to misrepresent Glen's words. But as people trying to interpret them. Glen, get a clue . . . the people were just responding to what their interpretation of what you were saying. If they missed the mark, then correct them. To threaten deleting people's posts is pretty childish in my opinion. If a person can't take the heat of having their words scrutinized, criticized and commented on then they need to just keep their mouths shut. That attitude of "its my sandbox and I'll just delete you" made me doggone mad! Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just delete the words of our critics and those who disagree with us? Um, what do they call that again? -
Like Glen, I got to see it before it was shown on TNT. I saw it as a solo episode some time after watching A Call to Arms. So all I had was a dim memory of ACtA to guide me.
My first impressions were I liked the Dragon. I immediately knew a technomage was involved. It didn't look real real, because it never was and never was supposed to. It was Technomagic. Seeing Peter and Edward working with each other was wonderful. And I liked all the convolutions of the plot, though they weren't all that difficult to figure out. I liked the special effects and Chen's music was finally finding its place. All in all a very good episode. Definitely not one of Joe's best but just good and fun and well worth the 40 some odd minutes.
Seeing it this week after WZ has changed my impressions little. I just wonder for those who started with WZ and not ACtA, will the relationship between Galan and Gideon work? After all, they hardly seem to know each other in WZ and in this episode they are being good friends. That is kinda weird.
I do know that I want more than 13 episodes of a "limited" series. Already writing my letters to Sci-Fi, Warner Bros & TNT. See Glen's notes on the web addresses for the Crusade for Crusade sites.
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Man you guys annoy me. You're already declearing the show dead meat after TWO episodes!!!!!!!!!!
HELLO??? You guys say it didn't compare to say 'the 2nd and 3rd series of B5'. Well If by some boon of god Crusade HAD a 2nd and 3rd season THEN we could make a fair comparison. I'm an unashamed fan of B5, and I think Crusade has the same kernal of light that the 1st season had. It could be GREAT and you guys are bagging it already!!! GO back and WATCH the first season of B5. There are some episodes that are painful to watch. TLR was a joy to watch. The first 13 episodes may be uneven, but MAN - this guy restored my faith in American sci-fi (I'm not american - surprise). DS9 was good, Voyager is now just a peepshow (can we get 7og9 in anything tighter?) and While there are some great episodes of Star Trek:TNG, many were unforgetable. Give JMS a break! This is a guy who had a bisexual main character, deal with religion and betrayal and all on mainstream TV! Sheesh!!!
*Crusader storms off and slams the door to watch 'War without End'* -
The episode was *FABULOUS* The effects and the story-line were surpurb. And while people were worried about the music and f/x I found the dilemma of weighting the lives of a cople of hundreds or thousand lifes verus the life of billions; and Gideons decision to stop one one who was leading a movement much like Martin Luther King. So I can't wait til next weeks episode.
And its ironic: It will be A VERY LONG ROAD FOR CRUSADE TO GET A SECOND SEASON. But, like Galen said: "Then it always is a long road."
SO WRITE YOUR LETTERS TO THE SCI-FI CHANNEL AND WARNER BROS. -
ZOOMDADDY wrote: "Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just delete the words of our critics and those who disagree with us? Um,
what do they call that again?" Nice try, good run at the superficial buzzword there, but this isn't censorship. If you wrote me...and said you were having troubles in Talkback because someone falsely attributed a quote to you (and could prove this to me), I would delete that post for you so that you would have a chance to be properly understood - as misrepresentation is akin to a lie and no one deserves to have something believed about them falsely. It is your right to be understood, JMS' right to be understood, it is the right of everyone in this forum. Furthermore, I have never...and will never...delete ANYONE for "disagreeing" with me. I *was* threatening to delete people who were putting words in my mouth, and attritubiting semi-slanderous remarks to me which I did not make. There are ethical and LEGAL consideration for this, which have nothing to do with censorship. There is a big difference between this and the censorship you so naievely and improperly postualte is going on here. If I wanted everyone to agree with me, I would never have allowed all of these posts which *disagree* with both my opinions (and me as a webmaster) to remain on Coaxial for posterity.**Glen** -
Glen here...It has just come to my attention that a few posts in this Talkback have "dropped out" (i.e. have disappeared). I just wanted to let you know this was *not* my doing - we have had problems at AICN with posts disappearing in the past, especially when the Talkbacks become numerous. I deeply apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, the incidents of missing posts seem isolated, infrequent, and are unpredictable (in fact, one of mine has gone away). If you notice your comments missing please feel free to re-post them - there's still a better-than-not chance they will remain unaffected by gremlins (although I'm not really sure how all of this stuff works, and the actual Talkback posting software component of the site is something I have nothing to do with, and is not controlled by me locally - so no promises). Sorry for the trouble here, just wanted to give you a heads up...**Glen**
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One BIG bitch I have about TRL is how Galen and Cole are all buddy-buddy all of a sudden. At the end of the last ep, Galen was still this enigamatic presence saying he would be there when needed and now he is just standing on the bridge in broad daylight like it's no big deal. Where is the transition? What is up with that?
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I don't care who's to blame. Speaking as a B5 fan from the very start, who has taped and archived every episode, and loved 90 percent of them, this show is a frigging mess.
Maybe it's because the order of the episodes has been messed with (The Long Road seemed like it should have been the 10th episode, not the 2nd), or maybe JMS just ran out of ideas (The Long Road could have been an episode of Gunsmoke with VERY little rewriting), but there is clearly no arc, no structure, no narrative, no energy, no joy, no depth, no nothing.
And frankly, it's a goddamned shame.
What a mess.
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I will agree the show has some kinks to work out. But heck, the first Bab 5 season was uneven. Sinclair had all the emotional qualities of a rock. So far, I like all the characters in Crusade, especially Gary Cole as Gideon. One of the other main reasons I was keeping my eye on Galen is because of the actor portraying him. Someone in an earlier post had mentioned the great atmosphere between Galen, Alywin, and Gideon. This is ironic of course last night, with Edward Woodward playing Alywin (who is an amazing actor and can pretty much have the crappiest dialogue in the world and STILL make it sound excellent)- considering that Galen is also a Woodward - Edward Woodward's son. Some of the dialogue when the two are talking about Galen's father becomes much more poignant once you know this.
Anyhow, I really think the show deserves a fighting chance from TNT.... or someone else if they decide to pick it up. -
this is all unreal. This is the SECOND episode people. It is not two or three seasons down the road it is season one, ep 2. I thought B5 was the best show on TV. As much as I loved it, what attracted me to the show was it's potential in the first season, not its output. The first season had a couple of outstanding episodes, a couple of good eps, and a whole lot of okay ones. It got its second wind second season and then it took off. Like all shows do. Let crusade do that. It is not perfect, they are trying to do something different that was never done before... just like B5. I have been impressed by how good it actually did start off. I knew that it was going to get ragged on by people because it isn't B5, just like people ragged on B5 because it wasn't star trek. Evan Chen, Sheesh. Why don't we give him a little time as well. He has certainly gotten better, and if the show survives, I am sure will be incredible after he figures out what works. Of course B5 is awesome, and it's shadow is large, but let its younger sister grow too. I am sure that she will take you places that you can't imagine. Stop comparing 2 eps to 120. And for peace of mind --- ----- ---- --- 1. The long road was not filmed second, it was moved to second because of TNT wanting War Zone to be made and JMS didn't want two 'action' episodes in a row. 2. to the person who wondered what the arch was for: it had a light in the middle for night operations. 3. To the person who said that they had to admit that they just like to rag: Sounds like someone really has no life. 4. to Glen, Coaxial, and AICN: Thank you for devoting so much effort to a show desperately trying to become something great.
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Whenever someone tries to
rationalize how Crusade will only
get better and that it's just the
first season, I need only
recollect the 1st seasons of
shows like Star Trek, Max
Headroom, Soap, and even to some
extent Babylon 5 itself to know
that I really know when I am
going to like something.
Crusade is limping out the gate.
I like the captain (hell, I
strongly resemble Gary Cole so it
would have made a great Halloween
outfit), Galen's OK though
overacted, I like the way JMS is
once again casting where are they
nows like Tim Thomerson and
Edward Woodward as guest stars,
and I'd love to have another
space opera show besides
the Two of 38 D-Cup Hour. But
alas, this show probably died a
merciful death.
Crusade is not abysmal, but the
music is, many of the secondary
characters are worse than the 7th
season Gul Dukat, and when I
find myself singing things like
"Drakh and Cover" mid-episode,
I know something's really wrong.
And for those of you who say
this thing's still better than
most of the crap on TV right now,
you're absolutely right. And
a dried dog turd is much easier
to scoop up than a fresh one too,
what's your point?
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I saw the Gathering as well as the first 2 eps of babylon 5 when they premiered. I never watched another episode until TNT started stripping them. I was lucky enough to "begin" during the 3rd season. B5 is a show that works as a whole, but was only average most of the time. As a stand alone, Crusade ep 2 is actually much better in my opinion than most B5's. I missed War Zone so maybe that helped. As for the poster who said there was no arc..... how the hell would you know what was arc and what wasn't after only 2 episodes? Did you know midnight on the firing line was a prelude to the centauri/shadow alliance and invasion of narn? In fact I detected multiple references to the known B5 arc. As for Voyager, when they go fully nude let me know. I may start watching again.
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This is my first post, so excuse me it I hit the wrong button and submit this too many times.
I thought he first episode sucked. However, I really enjoyed this one. For me, this episode wasn't about the effects (which don't thrill me), or even the basic story (which has been told a thousand times). To me, this story was about the budding relationship between two powerful and intelligent men. I'm really bummed that Crusade will only be around for 13 episodes. I want to watch Galen and Gideon as they go through this journey. It seems to me that neither of them trusts others quickly - I'd like to see Gideon get behind that 'I am an all knowing, mysterious, powerful TechnoMage' front that Galen puts up. I want to watch Dureena change and evolve from an outsider-pickpocket-thief into a valued and respected member of the crew, who realizes her own worth and works from that, and not from a place of pain and pain. That's what I'm interested in and I think that's what JMS would deliver. I think back to the beginning of B5 - Londo was the friend and G'Kar was the pain in the ass annoyance. That changed. I wonder journeys of the soul JMS could have taken these characters on, and I'm sad that I'll never find out. -
Well, just finished rewatching the Long Road. An interesting little note: I now like the title sequence. A lot. It's a shame that this is probably the best score we'll hear from Crusade, since (I'm guessing) it must've been done towards the end. The first few minutes prior to that, featuring a really cool-looking dragon, a bit of humor from Gary Cole, and those damned Starship Troopers outfits (Grrr...), really pulled me in. I was grinning like hell when I saw the dragon, practically chanting "War Zone WAS TNT's fault!"
But I digress.
I loved this episode. The interactions between Galen, Alwyn and Gideon were priceless. Gary Cole was totally nonchalant, as always, even when Gideon screws up (funniest part #1: Galen's little thumbs-up). But he does get frusterated every once in a while, especially at basketball hoops.
Galen and Alwyn, however, were the real meat-and-potatoes of this episode. All the conversations with them were acceptable, which is really amazing considering this is a "talky" episode. And some of their comments just make you smile (funniest part #2: Galen and Alwyn discussing the holodemons and their teeth).
On to the plot. One of my nits with B5 was its tendency to put cliche'd, trite, uninteresting villains into their one-shot episodes. It looks like Crusade might have the same problem. I don't think we can blame TNT when Evil Corporations start infringing on Good People's rights (read that sentence over; there's a kind of hidden joke there). Anyways... get better villains, people!
I also thought that the ending was a little predictable. I actually remember mumbling to my TV: "Okay, there's Galen in the forest... and, Alwyn says something and steps out of the foliage." Fah. It's been done.
Overall, good episode. Give us better villains and a more original plot and you'll have great ones.
-Cass (please excuse the errors) -
Hey... I was just readin' my TV GUIDE and noticed a review of CRUSADE hidden in there. It was a little bit of good, and a bit more bad. Overall, the review was negative. The critic brought up the fact that these people don't seem in too much of a hurry considering they only have 5 years. To be honest, I think CRUSADE sucks. But I still sorta like it. I must be schizophrenic. I'll watch all 13 eps. And I think that if anything, this show will make B5 look really good in comparison, although B5 is nothing to brag about if you ask me. But you didn't, did you?
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Okay. I watched the B5 pilot. I really didn't like it. I watched the first couple episodes. I hated it. I hated the wooden characters, the fact it felt like star trek lite (since I really didn't care for star trek) and consigned it to the same list I put all badly acted, poorly thought out sci-fi one.
I caught an episode everyone once in a while, because many of my freinds would shut down their lives to watch it while I was with them.
Through it all I was unimpressed.
Then after a few episode I didn't pay much attention to, I saw 'The Long Twilight Struggle'. It sank in, all the imagery and allegory. The 'Fall of Night' hooked me and by 'Passing through Gethsemane' I was a convert.
But if things go poorly, Crusade will never have that 'long twilight struggle', no 'coming of shadows' or 'war without end'
And of course it seems weird. Lets look at the showing order.
108, 107, 106, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 103, 102, 101, 104, 105
hmmm.... giving it a chance doesn't consist of 2 episodes. -
First off has anyone else noticed here over the past week that all of the text for Talk back and other pages is way over into the left margin and you half to scroll over to read everything. Kind of makes me sea sick, just wondering if that's just me or if something changed.....
Anyway first I would like to say that I was wrong in Wrestling ratings (how much things change in a few sort weeks). It appears WCW is thinking of going from WCW Monday Nitro to WCW Monday Night Asskicking by Raw. Ratings for WCW have been on the decline for the past 30 or so weeks but it seems that they've really gotten piss poor in recent weeks.
Also the much promoted Hollywood Hogan pic Assult on Death Mountain only got a 2.09 compsite rating, compared to War Zone's 1.9 with little promition. Also Crusade's raitings also dropped this week to 1.4. What else is on South Park????
Also TV guide has a review of Crusade in the June 19 - 25th Edition, page 14 (Atleast in the Comcast Baltimore County, Maryland edition).
I'm also curious as to see what Pirates of Silicon Valley will receive, the idea for the story seems pretty boring, and geek would proablly already know that back history, and what other kind of person would watch it, remains to be seen.
Also Its a damned shame Crusade doesn't kick ass, its good and watchable, but it still doesn't kick ass.
Also my friend made a comment that they should stop exploiting children by making them score TV shows. I had to exlain to him that Chen isn't a child. He said OH. -
It was a step up from the first one, mainly because of more characterization and less horrible dialogue. Certainly better as a second episode than, say, "Soul Hunter", though a few continuity issues in the episode led me to wonder whether it was supposed to be shown second. Let me cast another vote of confidence for Farscape as well - but I didn't care as much for this week's episode due to what I saw as very out-of-character behavior for the blue Australian chick (but the fact that I recognized it as out-of-character means the writers have actually established the character - yay!) I still don't care for First Wave and have pretty much stopped watching. But Crusade continues to show a lot of potential and I guess I'll write some letters to try and help get SciFi to pick it up after all - it would sure be a better 9pm Friday show than "Sliders!"
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Honestly...I could care less who's to blame. TNT, JMS, gnomes in the satellite feed...point is, while I do agree that this recent episode was something of an improvement, it wasn't really that great. Nothing within it engaged me. Oh, sure, it was fun seeing the Woodwards banter between themselves (though if that smarmy annoying air of superiority is typical of Galen's general attitude throughout the series, he needs to be exterminated now...sorry, I've been watching a lot of Dr. Who Dalek episodes, lately). But that didn't make up for the recycled plot (maybe now it'll come out that the makers of Insurrection had a look at this script...naah), the cardboard-cutout Earthforce Captain, and the tension...er...nope, no real tension. No sense that everything wasn't going to work out all right. It wasn't bad by any stretch...but sadly, it wasn't especially good, either. And no matter who's fault it is, that's a shame. Oh, and Farscape, though also uneven in quality, really and truly is quite good at times.
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Jun 20, 1999 3:32:26 PM CDT
Some things I wanted to say last night but couldn't cause my ISP
by jello bean
I just watched "The Long Road". I enjoyed it. It was not anything that I would want to tape and keep however. Last weeks episode had people up in arms because of the silent battle.I noticed that there were no silent scenes in this weeks episode. I wonder if that's because there was a different director? Ya think?
Last weeks ep was directed by Janet Greek who has used the silent scene before (go back and check your tapes). This weeks ep was directed by Mike Vejar. No silent scene. I also noticed the music was used in quite a different way as well. As was the lighting. This ep was "very well lit". As in "there were lots of lights turned on". Last weeks ep was also well lit, as in the lights were used very well . Not that I don't like Mike Vegar's use of light, but I find Janet Greek's far more interesting to watch (her use of color and shadow is amazing). I think part of my thorough enjoyment of the whole Babylon 5 universe is seeing how the directors have grown at their craft. And they have. All of them. The biggest difference between Crusade and B5 is the directors now know how to direct actors. "The Long Road" proves that. That was some of the best acting I have seen in the B5 universe. My one major problem with this ep was the effects. I hesitate to call them special, because they were awful. That mine looked like something off of Moon Base Alpha. I truly do hope that someone picks the pieces of this puzzle up and figures it out, cause I for one, would like to see the whole picture. Oh, and for those of you who didn't get it, Galen is staying with The Excalibur.
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The different between The Long Road and War Zone is like night and day. While War Zone was a intro that used battles, fights, and explostions to move the plot along this one used the people to move it along. The chacther development is whole hell better than War Zone. In War Zone there wasn't anytype of humor and in this one there was humor and it wasn't the childest type it was some real good humor, the type that you needed a brain to get and understand. The best part of it was the banter that Galon and Aylwn had about the holodemons and the fight that it had with the Earth Force personal.
I wasn't supprise about the ending of it because I knew that he wasn't dead. I think that as watching to many eps of Babylon 5 that has tought me to second guess what I am seeing.
Once again the GCI is great and it seem that it kept getting better and better as the show moves on. The music in this one I have to say is better, but isn't not great. I can't wait to see "Well of Forever" next week. That was look good and look like to be another Galon eps of the show.
In all to all this was a a lot better I give it a B. Not up there like Endgame and Z'ha'dum, but not as bad as Infection. -
Zathras point out that Mike Vejar also directed A Call to Arms, which featured yet another silent battle. Enough with the artsy fartsy stuff!
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First, a few administrative details. Glen, while I find the talkbacks exasperating, they perform a valuable service. Please don't end them. Thank you and AICN for your support of the Crusade for Crusade despite your personal dissatisfaction with the show.
Second, I feel I must respond to those who have suggested that there has been an credulous belief of everything that JMS has said and a constant pushing of blame onto TNT. JMS is difficult to work with. Like every artist with a vision, he's quite sure that he is right no matter what. Sometimes he's wrong. Oh well, it happens. And TNT had a right to make suggestions. No problem there. The problem is the suggestions that they made. I would never have stayed attentive as long as I have had TNT merely canceled Crusade because they thought it was bad. They haven't denied a word that JMS has said, and that says to me that it's at least partially true. If so, they behaved in a morally reprehensible fashion and deserve whatever censure they get (on that subject).
As for Crusade itself, well... War Zone was inferior. But it was also an introductory episode that was entirely unnecessary. Perhaps JMS ought to have made more out of it, but according to him, he didn't have very much time. He did the best he could with what he had. It wasn't great, and the timing, overly long fight scenes, they just reeked.
The Long Road, now this was another story. Jello Bean, I love your comments about the use of light and about the growth of the directing--real analysis, hurrah!! I thought the holographic dragon was magnificent, exactly what an old, recently adapted classic animated dragon used for children's parties ought to be. Ever seen Da Vinci's old men? Ugly, hideous in fact, but the truth of it is, they're the BEST ugly old men ever painted. They were utterly and completely appropriate for what was intended--I think the dragon was the same. The dialogue between Galen and Alwyn was lovely. The slow cadences in the bar scene provided just the right contrast to the frantic scene inside. And whomever made the point about this symbolizing their power, bravo. As for the ever so convenient parabolic mine and Claire's illness (anyone notice she's the girl from the Dentyne commercial?!)--sci-fi trades on such serendipitous occurences. In an hour show, it'd be difficult to wrap up a plot otherwise. So, I think it probably unfair to slam JMS for doing what everyone else does and indeed has to do. And, if Alwyn died at the end, wouldn't you have been disappointed? You knew that he and Galen hadn't said all they had to say. Sure, it's tired, sure, maybe JMS copped out on killing him off, but in the end, it provided nice closure to the Galen-Alwyn scenes and left open the possibility of encountering Alwyn again.
One more thing, I know Chen's music is a bit too loud sometimes, but that's hardly his fault. Surely the sound engineers could fix that. Otherwise, I find the non-Western rhythms and sounds and the occasional atonality an excellent backdrop for the series, highly evocative of the questing, mysterious, and spiritual tone that Crusade at its best will have.
Be patient with Crusade, its faults may be many, and it is not Babylon 5. But it may still grow to be some of the finest science fiction we will be privileged to watch in our lifetimes. If you'd rather watch Days of Our Lives in space, so be it. I prefer a show that tries and fails to one that never tries at all. -
I walked back into the room during the battle montage and thought there was something wrong with my TV. The clanging cans, did not, in any way, fit the action, in pacing or mood. If they are going to overlay music in a video montage, at the expense of all other sound, they MUST have a full sound. They did this successfully in several climatic battles in B5. The bongos in War Zone sapped the drama from the scene because they cannot hope to get the rich, fill-your-ears-with-waves-of-emotion sound. Between every beat is dead air! Have dead air when the good capn's lips are shouting fire, and people start slapping their TV sets. C'mon Crusade guys, you are professionals. Do your jobs. The music is entirely inappropriate for the show.
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OK, so those of us who have seen all two episodes - is it a fair assumption that we think the show at least deserves a CHANCE to survive? Forget about whether these episodes were the best written science fiction since Starlost. Forget about how you feel about Trek, Turner, or heavyweight wrestling. Forget about whether or not you like JMS. *Does the show deserve a chance?* I daresay it does and I find it hard to believe many of you would disagree. So have you written or called? I know a few of you have but what about the rest? You think your opinion doesn't matter or it's a lost cause? As someone who works in broadcasting, I can tell you that, just as in politics, the people who take the time to write and make intelligible phone calls are the ones who the people making decisions think about when they're making decisions. The ratings are not great. More importantly though, they're *not bad*. That means that SciFi won't dismiss the idea of picking it up based on ratings alone. It means that dedicated people who represent even more people will make the difference. Last year, me and about a dozen people had a brief picketing outside the offices of a major studio because we were upset with the script of a film in development that we felt portrayed a helpless person unfairly. Without getting into the details, this protest was enough to get the entire script changed as well as a postponement of shooting. It must have cost them millions to do this! And we were only 15 people! But we got their attention and communicated that there were many more of us. It worked there and I've seen it work countless times before. In that case we had to stop them from doing something bad. In this case we need to convince someone to do something good. Don't think for a moment that it's impossible. We're programmed to believe throughout our entire lives that our voices will never be enough to change things. Enough people believe this to make it seem like reality. But you really can make a difference if you express yourself without being too much of a pain in the ass - unless that's necessary. Here, I believe we can get our point across by showing our numbers - a dozen phone calls in one day is enough to evoke comment from employees. Imagine 100 a day. Or more. (And if you think not getting SciFi gets you off the hook, think again. Even if you have to wait a few years for a video copy or a syndication repeat, is that not preferable to losing all chances of ever seeing it?) I'd like to see people post the responses and reactions they're getting from calls and letters. I'd also like to see reasons why this *won't* work. Because, unless you truly think the show is vile and is an affront to our culture, I can't think of a single good reason. Since I haven't seen much of this sentiment expressed here, I really hope people realize what a difference they can make. Sorry for the speech. -emmanuel
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All I can say is that this is a series with a lot of potential. It is true that were a lot of us that were expecting WAY too much of this series and now we feel shortchanged.
Give it a rest! Crusade will evolve in something greater if we just let it. What's done is done. 13 episodes, thankful for that.
Nothing is perfect not even JMS.
(Lighting strikes!) :)
Let's focus to try to keep the flame burning! Do not douse it with contempt.
Take these episodes as they are.
Crusade is not Babylon 5 nor they were ever intended to be. It is different. Sadly what is different frighten us.
PS
I love Galen! He's Kosh with a pulse! -
Having seen both eps, read jms' apologetics, and these talkbacks, all I can say is that moving the start of this show to the summer was the best thing that could happen to it. So far it's not as good as B5, Deep Space, Sliders, or Voyager(on one of it's better than average days--it's as good as average Voyager), but right now it's the only sci-fi show in town. Deep Space is gone; Voyager is in reruns; not everyone can get the Sci-Fi channel. If this show does not do respectable in the ratings now, when would it? I thought the first ep was weak. The second was better, but it still rehashed an old story line we've seen many times. I liked the Galen/Alwyn dialogue. The heavy reliance on the CGI is not all it was cracked up to be. And I fault JMS, not TNT for that. The music is "different." At times I like it, particularly during action sequences. But during the acting intensive scenes, it is distracting or creates a disjointed mood. I have seen worse(some first year B5 come to mind), but I expected much more. I'll continue to watch because it's a fair show, and besides, it's the only game in town
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Yes, I liked TLG quite a bit. *Much* better than TWZ. Nice story, good characterization, good acting. Heck, I'm even beginning to like Chen's music...much better than what I've heard before. JMS can't write a "realistic" dialogue someone said here? My, I have never read a book or heard a movie or TV show with such so-called "realistic" dialogue...and I have read quite a bit in every genre. That is, unless some people consider lines with one 4-letter expletive every other word as "realistic." SFX? I liked them, but then that is just icing with little if any nutritional value, demanded in heaping teaspoonfulls by those who like junk food...the story always comes first no matter what the genre is. I hope Crusade is given room to develop somewhere else, someplace else with people whose fetish for wrestling, cowboy diplomacy, and gratuitous sex is not so obsessive-compulsive.
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Chen's music is awesome! Especially in this episode. I think that the Asian influences work very well as a counterpoint to the music that we are all used to in Franke. Especially the string instruments used in the opening title. It evokes a different emotion; one that makes you feel as if you are being transported to another time and place (which we are!). I would agree with some people that after becoming used to hearing Franke's music throughout B5, listening to Chen will take some adjusting. All I can say is that when I hear those faint, short pluckings on whatever stringed instrument he is using in the opening credits, it gives me goosebumps! I would live to hear him coming up with new and innovating orchestral pieces over the next 5 years. Just as Franke was allowed to come up with them over his 5 years.
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LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT.
There's so much history between Gideon and Galen and we won't be able to see it.
the "sex" scene was funny. And Gideon landing on the surface. GOOD FX. Still like Chen's music.
Max would have been a great character - so greedy. It would have been nice to see him become more dimensional. Liked seeing Michael Beck w/grey hair - looks good. SO, does Dureena have the hots for Matheson? Acting much better. Loved getting more details about the ship and the personal lives of the characters. Too bad we won't get to know them. 3 down, 10 to go - SOB!!!!! -
I agree with Bubbarider666 above. Nobody seems to be demonstrating any urgency here. (Note to Captain: Helllloooo. All your Earth friends and family are going to DIE if you fail in your mission. You haven't made one step of progress in three weeks. Get your skinny butt off your treadmill and get out there tracking down them nasty ol' Drakhs bubba!) I'm underwhelmed about the whole series so far. Also, I think JMS is "borrowing" WAY to much from Star Trek. Gee . . . where have we seen jelly-fish-in-space before? Maybe on TNG's "Farpoint" episode. And didn't we see a TNG episode where the Enterprise was mistaken for a space beastie's mommy and attached itself to nurse? A copulating space beastie is not that far removed. And all this in one episode. I thought the CGI inside the well of forever sucked. The Excalibur in upper right of the picture in the Well shot while Galen was at the grave site looked about as 3-D as a xerox. And hey I think I'll have 'em put those glittery sparkle thingies in my ashes when I die. What great special effects are next - salt shakers for medical probes (oh wait ST has done that too!). (Production Note to props: Put windows in your common areas on the space ship. 1. Your crew will appreciate the view, and 2. We guys in the audience will know you're on a spaceship and not just at your local YMCA or highschool cafeteria.) (Note to Writers: Ship Captains usually take their meals either alone in their stateroom or with their senior officers in the senior officer mess hall, not sitting alone in the general mess hall being ignored by their crew. It's lonely at the top. Chain of command, officer mystique and all that kind of thing you know. It sort of helps in keeping everything in perspective when Captains have to select individuals to go out to certain death on difficult missions and things like that.) I'm with Crusade to the bitter end because I love SF, even bad SF. But its a sad, sad day in Babylonia because the mighty JMS has struck-out.
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I have watched the first three episodes of "Crusade" experiencing the same high hopes, mild disappointment, and apologetic rationalizations that most of the people here have expressed. The first episode was frantic, the second fun and the third fizzled. What puzzles me is the rationalized consensus that the first thirteen episodes of B5 weren't very good. I for one think the first thirteen episodes of B5 were on the whole quite good. There were a couple of dogs in the bunch, "Infection" and "The War Prayer". Dogs, however, are not as bad as lemons --"Gray 17 is Missing" was a lemon. Even these dogs were at least enjoyable in a shallow hide-and-seek kind of way. They play with the interesting concepts of organic technology and racial intolerance. I found the other episodes to be either good or excellent. "Midnight on the Firing Line" hits the ground running, introduces the Narn Centauri conflict, and ties together three distinct plots nicely at the end. "Soul Hunter", "The Parliament of Dreams" and "Believers
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What can I say, major disapointment on this episode totally. I've actaully enjoyed War Zone and The Long Road, but Well of Forever had no story line what so ever. I feel I could have watched the last 10 minutes and caught the complete story. And is it me or does Crusade seem more and more like it is becoming the
Galen show co staring Gary Cole as Captian Mathew Gideon? This whole Technomage mystique is starting to annoy me some. I like Max's character a lot, he's a capilistic pig and only serves himself. For me this show was 45 minutes of bordom. And I really find it hard to belive that a ship like this one with this mission would be left with 'Nothing to Do' and 'No leads to follow' come on. Maybe this crew wants Earth to die while they fuck around on thier own little Love Boat luxury liner. I sure hope it improves from here. And oh yeah the lead in music for this episode sounded like it came from CHiPs.... -
i'm really wondering if i'm watching the same show as some of you. why is there this almost sadistic thrill in tearing apart each and every moment in crusade? i saw last night's episode and, while it was no "coming of shadows" it was still an enjoyable hour where i felt like i actually was part of a journey into the world of science fiction. in other words, unlike most other drivel that passes for science fiction these days. the dialogue was good and not insulting to my intelligence. i was afraid that galen would wind up being possessed by some mystical force that made him take over the ship which would be the star trek way out of the conflict. i *liked* the way he rationalized his actions in the end and i don't recall any other story of a similar nature where that was that kind of resolution. my only complaint was that dureena seemed a little flat. but i'm sure this will change with time - i remember thinking the same of ivanova in the beginning. really people, what do you want? if you're going to tell me that voyager, ds9, or, god forbid, earth: final conflict is better science fiction, then we might as well be debating the theory of evolution because we have no common point of reference and we'll never resolve it. seriously, lighten up on the critiques and try to let yourself get pulled into the story. maybe it'll suck in the end but let's at least try to find out. i really hope there are more phone calls and letters being made to scifi this week. - emmanuel
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First, in order to be sucked into a story, there has to be one. Second, if I had a choice, I will always choose NO sci-fi over BAD sci-fi. Just 'cause it's sci-fi doesn't mean it has to be "saved". I mean, look at Galactica:1980! That needs to be buried somewhere. I've always liked the Trek series myself (despite a few stinker eps). Farscape is great! And I happen to like Earth:Final Conflict (when I can catch it). In other words......there is NO excuse for bad sci-fi except as fodder for MST3K (which I love!)
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i can't believe that people are comparing star drek to crusade. crusade has huge potential, look at what babylon5 has become. it is now the standard by which future sci-fi will be judged. earth final conflict is an example. voyager has always sucked, as had ds9. did anyone else see the donnie brosco ds9 ripoff? lame. and as for bubba, keep trying loserboy. your lack of intelligence is showing.
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I think that 1) we haven't really seen enough of Crusade to judge Crusade but I'll do it anyway... 2) It's not as if JMS had the excuse of creating a show for the first time as he did with B5 -- Crusade should be blasting out of the gate but it isn't really. 3) It isn't all bad but it could be much better - how ? We're not feeling any real Stracynskiesque political intrigue yet. There's no arc, really... it's a quest show to me right now - I really hope that changes over the next episodes. 4)There is a problem of credibility in the situations (why screw around on the planet if you're not advancing earth's cause ?) as there always has with B5 and some of the dialogue is poorly written (then again sometimes JMS really writes great dialogue even though that is one of his weaknesses but who am I to criticize HIM - dialogue is damn hard to write !)
5) We know it probably isn't going further than 13 eps so it's easier to bitch. 6) I really hate it when people are childish on Talk Balk ... grow up and ignore people who deserve to be ignored. -
I enjoyed "The Path of Sorrows". Some nice character stuff and good alien effects. Crusade has taken some time to get used to. Unlike most sci-fi, we don't get a life or death situation in every episode. There is no solve the problem of the week or the ship, or the planet, or those people are doomed. No, Crusade is more subtle and introspective. Like B5, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The first four episodes of Crusade, taken together, show an interesting story developing. The last three episodes have provided intriguing character development. Next week we get to learn more about Dr. Chambers. I'm enjoying the show and looking forward to more.
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Hi Glen,
I enjoy your site and the talkbacks... I hope you won't put an end to
them.
The order in which they are broadcasting Crusade is really killing me... For instance, it seems odd that Gideon would say to Galen : "You've saved my life many times since then [since he joined the crew]" even thoug it has happened once or twice in the Well of Forever.
Also, the crew members seem to know each other too well - some events seem to be missing - even though we have no idea of the timeframe.
So who's bright idea was it to show the episodes in that order - TNT's or Babylonian Productions' ?
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