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Didgeridoo thinks Bryan Singer's VALKYRIE is pretty incredible!!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey folks, Harry here - about a week ago a fella called me up, industry type - not directly related to the film - told me, "I'm gonna burn in hell. I just saw VALKYRIE, I'm a Jew and I cried for a nazi, I'm going to burn in Hell!" The fella went on and on about the film - about Ottman's great score - about how it was incredibly thrilling - and he got me excited. It sounded like they were getting ready for a test screening, so I've been expecting some feedback - and this fella seems very enthused about the film. Drawing comparisons to SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. Based on the script and the cast and the talent involved - expect this movie to kick a lot of ass. Here ya go...
Hiya Harry and gang-
I haven't sent in a review in a while (the last review I sent into you guys was Spiderman 3), because I moved and other reasons. I'm living in Henderson, NV these days, and got into a test screening tonight, without knowing what movie it was until we were sitting in our seats. That surprise element was cool, because the movie itself was something I didn't expect. The screening was at the Green Valley 10, where I've seen TDK three times now, and me and my friends tried to guess what we would be seeing, but none of us guessed right. Then the NRG guy told us we’d be seeing… VALKYRIE!
Yeah, I've read a lot of bad shit about this movie, delays and whatnot, and we figured we were in for a trainwreck. The verdict? The truth is it’s pretty great. At over two hours, it's a little on the long side, but compelling and serious as fuck. I don't know if I've ever seen a movie about a 'righteous coup' like this- if I could compare it to anything it would be Saving Private Ryan- about a small group of people trying to something impossible.
Other than the length, it's got some problems. Here are the negatives right off the bat- I was confused in the beginning about who was who and how they'd play into the plot- but it comes together pretty quickly. It was also confusing if they were Nazis or not, but at some point in the movie, you find out they're in the German Army Reserves, which is not the same as Hitler's SS army but still had to swear an oath to the Fuhrer. Once I realized that, it made a lot more sense. Another part that’s questionable is the first scene where you meet Tom Cruise's character in North Africa, which almost seems a little out of place. Also, I read somewhere that they didn’t try for German accents, and I actually think it worked out better that way. If you’re gonna be purist about it, they’d be speaking German, not with German accents so why bother.
So, onto the review, there are spoilers aplenty since the events are true and right there on Wiki. But I stopped short of the final act.
Valkyrie is about a group of Germans who are secretly trying to overthrow Hitler and the Third Reich. The movie starts with Kenneth Branagh and Bill Nighy, whose attempt to blow up Hitler’s plane fails and almost gets them caught. You then find out they're part of a group that hate what Hitler's doing to their country. Their problem is they're plans aren't bold or organized enough, and Hitler's grip on Germany is absolute.
Then it's off to North Africa, where we meet Stauffenberg, Tom Cruise's character, who has doubts about the war- a dangerous thing to have under Hitler. He’s almost killed when his unit is strafed by Allied planes, and loses a hand (CGI'd out for the rest of the movie), two fingers on his other hand, and an eye (hence the eye-patch) in the attack. He gets a glass eye that he only wears sometimes, but carries around with him like a talisman. Finally coming home, and seeing his kids playing war-games to Flight of the Valkyries (a nice touch), he realizes that the disease of Hitler's propaganda has even infected his children and this is the final straw that makes him decide to join the resistance.
At their secret meeting, we meet a Terence Stamp as a German general who resigned in protest to Hitler. Stauffenberg is more strategic and aggressive than the rest of them. He wants to assassinate Hitler at his bunker, the Wolf's Lair, and take over Berlin immediately and declare martial law as a pretext for arresting all the Nazis. He brings an explosives expert onto the team to show them how to rig plastique explosives that will fill the entire bunker with fire. It's a bold operation, but these guys are just making it up as they go. None of them know if they have any chance- they're on edge the whole time, but pretending everything’s cool. Tom Cruise and Bill Nighy especially show the mixed emotions of fear and determination of these guys.
Stauffenberg's plan is to change Hitler's Operation Valkyrie- the order that keeps the Nazi government in place in the event of an Allied invasion. In Stauffenberg's version, once Hitler is dead, the German Reserves take control of Berlin district by district. But to change the Valkyrie order, he has to get Hitler’s signature, and to get to Hitler, he has to go through Tom Wilkinson, a slightly slimy general who will join whatever side is winning. He doesn't join the conspiracy but doesn't blow the whistle either. He's hedging his bets in case the coup happens. Meanwhile, Kenneth Branagh gets transferred to the front, and Stauffenberg gets promoted, giving him his chance to get into Hitler's inner circle. Now he's pretty much the leader of resistance.
I think one of the best scenes in the movie is when Stauffenberg goes to meet the Fuhrer at his mansion in the mountains. This is an inside look from a different view- there's something so grotesque about the casual afternoon among Himmler, Goering, and the other Nazi elite. The stakes are real, and everyone will die if their plan is found out. Even though Hitler is a cameo in the movie, his presence hangs over these characters and this film like a shroud.
Everything about this section is first rate (the location was like Castle Wolfenstein but real), and the actor playing Hitler is just madness incarnate. Tom Cruise is subtle and very real in these scenes, bringing a lot of complexity. Hitler sees Stauffenberg as a war hero, willing to sacrifice himself for the Reich, and signs the new Operation Valkyrie order without reading it.
Then, when Hitler calls a meeting that Stauffenberg is to attend, the plot is in motion. The Wolf’s Lair is heavily fortified, in the middle of a dense forest, with checkpoints and Nazis in trenches all along the way. Stauffenberg gets into the room with the other Reich officers, places the loaded briefcase under the table- but misses his chance because the others back in Berlin wouldn’t give the order since Himmler wasn’t there. Stauffenberg is, needless to say, pissed.
Meanwhile, Bill Nighy has done his part and mustered the Reserves as if Berlin is being attacked. When it’s called off, all the commanding officers are disgusted that it was just a drill. These scenes are very well done, with little scenes about some of the figures, down to the telegraph operators, who just transmit commands at first, but at some point will have to pick a side.
Stauffenberg finally gets another chance at Hitler when another meeting is called, and is determined that no one fuck it up this time. But when he gets to the Wolf’s Lair, he finds out that the meeting has been moved out of the bunker to another building with open windows- which will prevent the vacuum effect that would wipe out everyone in the room. Everything else goes like clockwork. He gets the briefcase in place right under Hitlers nose, gets called out of the room, and is out of there. As he looks back and sees the explosion, he believes he has done it. There’s no turning back- this is the beginning of the end.
Back in Berlin, Stauffenberg sends a message to Germany that Hitler is dead and martial law is in effect, then orders the Reserves to start rounding up SS officers. It's a huge, dangerous, epic operation- the fight for Berlin. The final act of the movie is fucking intense, but I’m leaving out the very end.
It’s a pretty incredible story, and even though the concentration camps aren't a part of the movie, you think about it in almost every scene- the knowledge of what these monsters did.
That's Valkyrie. Everyone clapped, and we were all pretty floored. I think Bryan Singer did a bang-up job making an intense, well-written and acted flick. One other thing I wanted to mention was the accurate use of German Luftwaffe aircraft of the period, which was very cool. I'll probably see it again once it comes out, and hopefully it will be trimmed down a little, but it’s worth seeing.
If you can use this, call me Didgeridoo.
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grizzly end though
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this sounds kind of great.
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Was worried this was going to be a stinker.
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but i hope not. i hope this movie is cool. i hope all movies are cool. but when you reference the fact that you've seen TDk a bunch it always reads as an Exec trying to sound like a geek during the review. Also, the fact that he references the lack of accents as a positive also lends to the plant theory. Just saying. Hope I'm wrong.
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just saying
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..is a space alien, from the planet Closeta Homos Prime.
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It seems like this was supposed to be out a year and a half ago. Are they still going to dump it in Feb '09?
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Always is with Tommy as the subject.
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and to wear bulging underwear at pube/asscrack level and leather cape! cripes they succeeded in making superman's suit gayer than it was. congratulations singer.
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Born on 4h July, A Few Good Men, The Firm, Color of Money, Collateral, Interview with a Vampire, MIssion: Impossible 1&3, Eyes Wide Shut, Lions for Lambs, Magnolia... Plenty to enjoy.
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thing seems like a mistake. Cruise could have pulled it off, given his level of intensity; if they had asked him to do it, I can't see him refusing. I can see him doing it and it just being "o.k.", somewhere between Kevin Costner Robin Hood Prince of Thieves and Meryl Streep Out of Africa, just "o.k."
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considering it kept being put back it appeared valkyrie was a disaster, despite the talent involved. i loved the usual suspects and way of the gun and though singer hasn't really delivered on his promise he's made some fine films. this sounds promising
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Jesus fucking Christ! How many Holocaust movies are we going to have to stomach. That's how you can tell it's ran by Jews. If it were run by Blacks then every other month we'd have a movie about Slavery. Are we going to tell the Jews to move on when all of the Holocaust survivors are dead, as we told the Blacks in our Country "We'll I don't see anyone who was a slave living today, so please move on".
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no german accent. still very good
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dick
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He couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.
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Sure, there are plenty of performances that work w/o an accent.
I think Cruise should have gone balls to the wall to prove why he can still be relevant. Accents attract awards (Meryl Streep, Daniel Day Lewis), just like singing(Reese Witherspoon), nudity(Halle Berry), playing gay(Tom Hanks), playing a retarded person(Tom Hanks), or being really, really old(Jack Palance, various other Geezers). -
This movie is a dud. Everyone knows it.
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not batshit crazy that'll be enough for me. i'll be like. wow, this guy is good. plus he wears a patch. that should enough for an oscar shouldn't it?
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Not even Apt Pupil, which most folk seem to hate.
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acting from Pegg.
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Hey genius, You know this has nothing to do with the Holocaust righ? It has everything to do with an attempt to assassinate Hitler by senior members of the Wermacht general staff? Right slugger? Hmmm, no you don't know that tiger? Well go back and read the actual artical, you will see it doesn't mention the holocaust anywhere in it sport.
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As long as there's no lubed up volleyball scenes or scientology references I'll check it out.
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says this sounds like a plant. I mean, "industry type"?
Love ya Harry, but you can be pretty gullible and easily excited about anything.These clowns seem to know how to play you ( and this site) pretty well.
Singer's take on Superman was basically shit ( especially when you compare it to this last summer's crop of "comic book" films),a pale imitation of Donner's Superman, and after months and months of being hyped to death on this site.What a dissapointment.
It's gonna take some convincing to get me to shell out money for another project helmed by that guy.
I hope it turns out good mainly because I'd like to see crazy Tom knock one outta the park and get back on top, but I dunno.
It's gonna have to get a high rating on Rotten Tomatoes for me to even consider a matinee viewing and giving up two + hours of my life for another project from Mr Singer and friends. -
This debate about accents is so yesteryear. Cinema has moved past this. It's a directorial decision, and if it within the context of the storytelling and if it's consistent, then who gives a fuck? Your complaint is the type that a typical moviegoer makes, not a film buff. This is far beyond the realm of sophisticated film criticsism. Go read a book about filmmaking and its history. You'll find "accents" are a joke among filmmakers
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Aug 08, 2008 4:44:20 AM CDT
I'm willing to suspend my skepticism and believe this will be go
by newc0253
The trailer looked great & a lot of the negative press seems fixated on wanting Cruise's big film to flop badly. The guy may well be a giant dickwad freak but i ain't gonna hate it preemptively on that basis.
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You're an idiot. I would write more, but Geez, You're simply an idiot who knows less about grammar than you know about history. Why are you capitilizing "blacks" and "slavery?" Why do you seemingly ask two questions but fail to use question marks? "Run by Jews," not "ran by Jews." Wow, you're a moron.
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it wasn't the nazis who did the holocaust, it was the phycologists. tom cruise plays the bad guy. hitler was trying to stop the holocaust. they got von stauffenburg on side by getting him hopped up on prescription medication
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...about time to start the propaganda.
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firstly you're about 4 stories too late with that comment, how about you go on the talkback that's related to the casting and post your opinion. secondly your opinion is bollocks, go watch spaced and not laugh at pegg.
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"At over two hours, it's a little on the long side" is the only negative I saw, and then trying to convince us that the lack of accents doesn't matter. depalma25, accents do matter. The more convincing the details of a film are, the more you can suspend your disbelief and accept what's going on on-screen. That makes for a more engaging experience, and almost always a better film. Ideally you'd have everything in Valkyrie in German, and not only may the actors have to learn an entire language, but audiences might be put off. Rightly or wrongly, studios have to make financial decisions. What's far less difficult is to have these actors - who, by profession, are paid to impersonate other people as much as possible - learn the accent. You don't then have to remind yourself that even though Cruise sounds American and everyone else sounds British, these guys are meant to be German. Otherwise, you run the risk of waking up halfway through the film and asking "hey, why the hell is Tom Cruise alive in Nazi era Germany?"
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...quotation marks go after a period, not before. I forgot to mention that. Oh, and the word "country" should not be capitilized. What Ivey League college did you go to?
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but WW2 movies aren't always about the holocaust. some are about, yknow, war.
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I'm still excited to see this film. My only question is a.) when did Jack Palance win an Oscar?? and b.) I didn't think Bryan Singer had anything to do with Way of the Gun? I guess that's 2 questions.
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...much of the cast is British, yet don't speak with German accents. I understand accents have been a concern among filmmakers, but it has long been the tradition of Hollywood movies that it (authentic accents) are much less important than story. I can name ten classic movies where this is quite evident. Is Tom Cruise speaking with a German accent but speaking English more authentic? Not to Germans. Not to most of the world. What accent do ancient Greeks or Roman's speak with? Who cares. Sometimes they speak with a Britsh accent (Sir Lawerence Oliver). And sometimes they speak with American accents (Kirk Douglas). Again, who gives a shit? Does Sean Connery really sound like a Russian sumbarine commander?
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I really would like to see Singer on his feet again.
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I think the point is that they didnt try to do accents because if they were being totally accurate then they would just have everyone speaking in german! Otherwise you would randomly have a full english speaking GERMAN army with a german accent and that would just be fucking shocking!
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I hope it is good.Also, Jack Palance won best supporting actor for City Slickers. He loved those one armed pushups.
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Exactly how many holocaust movies have been made in the last few years? You sound like you are keeping track. How about a number.
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I definitely think that Singer wasn't THAT interested in the comic book Superman and mostly did Returns to put right what happened to Richard Donner all those years before. The fact that the X-Men films were produced by Donner's wife means he must have heard the whole Superman story from Donner firsthand. I think that Singer new as far back as 2003 that he was being canned. Listen to the second audio commentary on the X-2 dvd, when the end credits play it's almost like Lauren Shuler Donner is begging the Fox executives not to fuck up the third movie. So maybe Singer was trying to symbolically put right what went wrong with Donner's films, even if he couldn't fix his own. It doesn't make the X-Men 3/Superman Returns fuck up any more palatable though.
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Surely it can't be that great, otherwise it would have been released by now.
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because that was a bucket of ass...awful
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Don't you just get the sense he should have been first choice for the part of Stauffenberg? I wonder if you can insure a film against the bizarre publicity fuck ups of the stars. It seems like something people should do from now on. These days you never know when a star is going to kill someone when DUI, make crazy racist statements or be Tom Cruise.
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I appreciate the reply mate, always good to intelligently debate rather than have an internet shouting match. My problem here is consistency - yes, I prefer either subtitled German or English spoken in German accents. It makes it more believable for me. Equally, we've had plenty of movies where the native accent isn't used. But the problem here is that there isn't a consistency between all the actors - most are English, one is American. I'll reserve judgement until I've (probably not) seen this, but from the trailer alone I kept thinking "okay Nazi dudes, surely you can see who the plotters are here - they're the band of English guys with the American dude in the eyepatch!" Either have everyone speaking the same thing, and then the contrasts won't draw you out of your suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, the rest of the movie has to work pretty damn hard to keep you engaged.. And when you're cast and crew include Bryan "Superman Returns" Singer and Tom "Couch Jumping Xenu Worshipper" Cruise, that has to work DAMN hard.
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If I recall correctly they didn't and it worked fine.
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How much does this dude knows about German history? Does he think that every German was/still is evil and everybody joined the Nazi party because they wanted to? And that everybody who was a Nazi was pure evil, just because they were wearing this uniform?
Shit, what do you learn about WWII outside of Germany? Even my canadian girlfriend asked me a while ago if it's true that we still celebrate Hitler's birthday!
This been said: I hold my applause for Valkyrie until I saw it. Could be the next Saving Private Ryan, which earned much more negative reviews in europe than in the USA. -
Nothing makes you seem more in the closet than bashing a gay director, guys. Seriously.
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Now that Valkyrie has been declared a critical and likely box office hit that may win Singer the Oscar, he can now turn his full attention to The Man of Steel. Singer's Superman is the sexiest of them all.
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Yeah - it couldn't be because they know good and well that if it opened amidst HARRY POTTER and James Bond that it would have been DESTROYED - and if they open a WWII movie in the midst of Award season - without any gigantic opposition till March - that they would have a chance to really do solid box office. Yeah. Couldn't be that.
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Spoiler: Hitler doesn't die to this coup! Seriously, a spoiler-lite review of something IN THE HISTORY BOOKS is kind of laugh worthy. Then again, people are dumbasses when it comes to history. I remember many years ago at an old job of mine, me and a co-worker were talking about the movie Titanic and the boat sinking was the only good part, then this woman comes up to us with fury in her eyes and goes "THANKS FOR SPOILING THE END OF THE MOVIE, ASSHOLES!!", at which point she stormed off. Once she left, pretty much everyone in the store bust out laughing because no one could believe we just heard that.
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Stauffenberg was an army officer but never a Nazi party member. In fact, most of the members of the Reichwehr were not Nazi members. The only official Nazis in the armed forces were the SS. Many military leaders supported Hitler because he promised to strengthen the military and military leaders enjoy receiving and spending lots of tax-payer money. There's no difference to the U.S. in that regard.
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Seeing as how the film received millions of dollars in production coin from the German government, it's almost certain to premiere at the Berlin Film Festival in February, the same month it's scheduled to hit theaters in the U.S.
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There's been a depressing plethora of racists and anti-semites on these boards in the last few days. A more stupid, ill informed baseless rant I haven't seen in ages. What's the matter Ganymede? one of those despicable uppity black people steal your girlfriend? "Jewish" Bank Manager not approve your loan? Or, as I suspect, are you a narrow minded little tool that has to categorise people by race to make yoursef feel more secure in your misreable existance? You. Complete. Cunt.
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It's like Tony Montana in Scarface having to speak accented English because he is in America. Makes sense... he's in a foreign country other than his own.
Now if the movie took place all in Cuba, I wouldn't expect him or any actors to use Cuban accents. Its understood where they are. English is only a matter of getting across the plot.
When a film is set in somewhere like Germany and the cast are speaking english with no accent, I think "Oh they're speaking German because everyone can understand everyone. German people understand each other perfectly and this way I understand them perfectly so it's like I too am speaking German." It helps to draw you into the world. But when they're speaking English in Germany with a GERMAN ACCENT I think "Why the hell are these Germans struggling to speak English in Germany?". It's the major thing that killed Hannibal Rising for me (That and all the other horrible things it did).
What about "Hitler: The Last 10 Days?" Many people (myself included) consider Alec Guiness' portrayal of Hitler to be one of, if not the best ever put to film. As I recal, the cast is nearly all Brisith speaks with English accents, but the effect is riveting. (Did Guiness speak with a Russian accent in Dr. Zivago? I cant recall, but don't think so.)
Sure, in a perfect world they'd all really speak German with subtitles. But if you can't have that have normal English not some damn fence sitting crap.
If the script is good and the acting first rate (as seems to be the case here), I'm willing to accept any accent they use. If they aren't, then there isn't any authenticity that's going to save a second or thrid-rate movie. -
The one film I've seen that best solved the accent dilemma so far was 'Hunt For Red October'. No matter how believable it was hearing Sean Connery speaking Russian, everyone on the sub did (subtitles) until they zoomed in on his mouth while reading something and when they zoomed back out, everyone was speaking accented English. Almost as if the audience had a babel fish stuck in their ear. To me, that was a very clever way of getting around it and it worked for me at least.
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I don't understand all this silly criticism about the film lacking German accents. Since when did German officers speak German-accented English with one another? It's fine if they really are speaking English, say to a captured archeology professor or an Allied prisoner about to get tortured, but not to each other. As long as the characters speak a dignified and educated English and American actors lose their annoying drawls and California surf dialects, it's OK.
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each region of germany has its own dialect and accent. are they all going to have **german** accents? should they each have a different german accent to reflect the region they come from? maybe some should have cockney accents some should have scouser accents some geordie to point this out
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I agree to an extent, but I think it's the issue of contrast and consistency again. Traditional English accents are, for some reason, considered to be neutral. If you have an all-English cast then you can get away with it (and yes, ZaphodBeeblerox, HFRD pulled off the trick really well in a different way). But when you have the majority of the cast as English, which sets the precedent for the accents in the film, and then suddenly an American actor as big as Cruise pops up.. well, it might not sit right. It might, because I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not sold from the trailer. It's probably shades of grey. Is anyone seriously trying to suggest that all the actors could have different accents (if for whatever reason we had say, American, English, Swedish, Dutch and Russian stars in this) then we'd swallow it just as easily? It's a case of finding the balance, and I think Cruise sticks out like a sore thumb to threaten that.
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...it is indeed refreshing to have an intelligent debate. In an ideal world, all movies would be made with the actors of the native land, speaking the native language, with a native director, distributed by a native movie studio. Mel Gibson thought that all of his actors speaking Aramaic would add authenticity to Passion of the Christ. Well, it did, only if one believes Jesus was a six-foot two, blue-eyed Anglo-Saxon. A director, at one point, makes a decision about how the ideas of accent/language/race/ may or may not add realism or encourage historical accuracy. I love, on the surface, the idea of Sir Ben Kingsley speaking with an Indian accent. But, do Indians think his performance is any less absurd when they hear "their" Ghandi speaking English, despite his American-impersonated Indian accent? It's all kinda weird. Hollywood has seemed to make a deal with the Devil regarding such matters. I think in the end, for better or worse, we have as well.
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Cruise managed a pretty decent and sophisticated Euro/British accent in "Interview with the Vampire" as Lestat, so I'm not worried about holding his own against the Brit contingent.
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...but i stil prefer him with an English accent.
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You're sharp as a fucking marble.
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I need to lay off the Merlot. That's right Sideways bitches, I said Merlot.
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But it looks like an interesting film.I really came in here to say what others have already said. They're all speaking German to each other. So in no context would anyone be speaking English with a German accent. And Mel Gibson's approach isn't ideal either. When I watch a movie I want to appreciate the acting and the cinematography. Having to read subtitles takes you out of that. Of course in the case of an actual foreign film, subtitles are better than dubbing but that's unavoidable. Really the best solution is what they did in 10,000 BC and just say "fuck it" and have everyone speak English with an American accent. It's anachronistic and retarded but once you get past that, you're free to enjoy the shitty CGI, terrible acting and lame story.
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than knowingly, even indirectly, give money to Scientologists. And I live in Clearwater, which makes it difficult.
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it is a bit ridiculous when people speak in accents rather than the actual language - so this is no problem for me. The way I think of it - its like you have a universal translator working. Imagine the people are actually speaking in German, and the different accents indicate different German accents, and you can understand it because you speak German too. This can easily be used as a concept if, for example, they had a British POW who spoke gobbledigook and no-one could understand him. I honestly think that if you insist on making an issue out of it, you are likely to miss out on what promises to be a brilliant film.
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Aug 08, 2008 7:02:15 AM CDT
Cruises American Accent Will Grate For Five Minutes
by troutmaskreplicant
And then you won't even notice it, IF THE FILM IS GOOD. But I dunno, Cruise can be irritating even in films where he isn't playing a German.
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We'll agree to disagree then. I think not even bothering with an accent is lazy, but if it works for everyone else then who am I to dictate? Hitler? I hope you like what I did there.
In the meantime, your Sideways comment gave you the win on this one. -
Damn You Michael Bay
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Gosh.
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good is it? this is full on
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It's opening on February 13. I know I plan on having this conversation with my girlfriend: "Hey, it's Valentine's Day. Wanna go see a movie about Nazis attempting to assassinate each other and then getting executed when they fail?"
Besides that, the studio must know they've got a stinker on their hands, because they're releasing it two months after awards eligibility ends. Considering the amazing cast they've got, that should be telling.
Quantum of Solace: November 7.
Harry Potter: November 21.
Surely there's a date sometime before or after that they can squeeze in a WWII picture.
Sorry, but this has EPIC FAIL written all over it. Stop trying to defend it, because you know it's true. -
As I'm sure Tom Cruise will make clear, in all his publicity for this movie.
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Nope, not me. Haven't watched them at all since '84. I mean, who cares? In the news I see all kinds of shit about how China is getting ready, about the cultural disparities and stuff--but neither myself nor anyone I know is gonna tune in for anything
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And Scientology. And Nazis. Sounds to me like this will be a blockbuster. I'm thinking $30 million, at least.
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Well, it's quite insane. The scale is unfeasible. It makes me wish I had a hi-def tv.
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by judaism? Any exegete to confirm? There is so many bullshit in the media about religion that maybe it was some BS. Or maybe this "insider" was goy as hell. Or just leafy.
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He's gonna burn in hell?
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Most of the conspirators were part of the aristocratic military elite, who wanted to kill Hitler not only to stop the tyranny but especially so that their class would regain the political power that they had lost due to Nazi rule, which was (after all) a national *socialist* movement. The "what if" is of course a bit moot, but they would probably have continued the war, albeit with more reasonable tactics. I wonder if Singer's film will contain any of this ambivalent context or if it will just whitewash the conspirators as conventional Hollywood heroes.
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give the guy a break, so he beilves in xenu and jumping on couches, everyone gets a bit crazy sometimes. cruise as an actor has done some sterling work. this films seems the perfect role for him to get back into the limelight. working in an emsemble. singer has a lot to prove since his fuck up over superman as well.. its a win win on all sides. I went to berlin recently and the place is seeped in history ( fantastic place to visit) i've started to get a real fascination with world war 2 movies and documentaries. this is a fascinating story, i was giong to watch it anyways, but a good review always helps! give cruise a chance!
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Aug 08, 2008 8:41:45 AM CDT
If the film is great, I'll forgive and forget the lack of accent
by mefrog
If it's not, it'll be nagging at me the whole time. I hope this review isn't a plant, though the profile fits... despite the fact that I think FAR less plants are actually sent to AICN then people call out but what do you expect of TBers with nothing better to do.
Regardless, feeling pretty apathetic towards this now. If it were canned tomorrow I wouldn 't be too down though I am a bit intrigued and intend to see it if word of mouth is good. -
He lost his eye in Africa. Though admittedly it does look a bit odd on Cruise... maybe just because he's so recognizable...
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seriously...why all the hatred towards these people? Are you not allowed to practice your religion in peace anymore? Come on guys, this ain't the way it's supposed to be.
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The trailer kicked ass and Singer is a genius. That's right CUNTS. Superman Returns was a fucking masterpiece.
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I think it's somewhat the thing to do to hate on him, but I guess I never understood why. Because the man has flaws? Perceived flaws at that? It does make me nostalgic to see Tom now, remembering how intensely private and super-serious he once was, but so the man smiles more openly now, he laughs and tries to be more personal I suppose. What's wrong with that? Don't say it's the Scientology. Because he's been that since the start. The love for Tom Cruise to me seemed to diminish when his cool exterior cracked a few years back. However, from the little we've seen of "Valkyrie," I see the same charisma in Cruise that I always did. As poorly executed as "Lions for Lambs" was, I wouldn't fault Tom. He was excellent and rose to the occasion, as we've come to expect. His filmography is impressive, I don't care what people want to say or if they want to hate. Yet, for real, I don't really see people hating. And if so, I think it'll turn around. And some time soon, the media will be covering Tom's comeback or his rebirth or his whatever. Whatever. I think Tom rocks. So long as he doesn't force his Scientology on me, which I don't think Tom has, despite his seemingly prominent position within the religion (is it a religion?).
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Enemy at the Gates in favor of the no accent thing. not one american or englishman in that movie, but all american and english accents.and the movie was bad ass.
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get the fuck out of your backward ass lives if you think movies about the Holocaust and slavery don't need to be made.we didn't live through those things. they were as big in shaping this country/world as anything else. do you think they should just disappear into history and not get taught or thought about by people today? is that how we should go about becoming a better society?and don't bitch about remakes and shitty comic book movies and bitch at a project like this as well.fuck beans.
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Personal affairs shouldn't mix with the public persona and the work it sustains. However Cruise tried to mix the two and it blew to his face. It's not just tabloid material, the mainstream media took over as well. I blame them as much as Cruise, but in the end it's still Tom's fault. You can be a superstar without being obnoxious, or promotng a money-hungry cult out of insecurity. Even other Scientologists like Travolta play it down (Battlefield Earth aside, but that one was so much fun it's forgiven).
Controversy aside, Cruise is a great actor when he tries to be, and Valkyrie sounds interesting. Silly accent or not. -
.....but this movie is going to blow. Tom Cruise as Stauffenberg? Give me a break. He'd have to wear lifts to clear the real guys boots. Beyond that, we've seen the trailer - it was a trailer for a bad film, let's be honest. Unless they've reshot the whole movie in the intervening months, how is it going to clear moments like Cruise's eyepatch turning to the camera with lightening crashing behind him? This film is going to be an insult to the guys who had the courage to risk torture and certain death to take out Hitler. The accent issue is a non-issue really, this film will suck so badly that'll just be the tip of the iceberg. Call this one a big 'pass' from me.
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eventually the bitching can still be valid depending on the level of bullshit revisionism displayed in the movie, but one has to wait for the goddamn release.
And Enemy at the Gates/Stalingrad was indeed badass. No silly accent = better movie all the way. -
and sadly even if it is singers best work to date I can't give tom a dime till he wakes the fuck up and drops that scientology BS.
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I agree: the thing that makes it stick out (no matter how historically accurate) is that it's Tom Cruise wearing an eye patch. But you know, I bet his performance will trump any reactions that a still photo expresses.
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what's the difference?
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Well I just don't know if I'll plunk down my duckets for this..
While going to most movies are like sittng down at a gambling table. This one had some serious
shit stacked against it to not
succeed.. -
Bryan Singer knows what he's doing.
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I'm totally down for no accents/language if the performances are good enough to justify it. I haven't seen much to give me a solid idea of what it will be like in the trailers.
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PLANT
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..but if you are Scottish Lord I am Mickey Mouse!
Fuck me, I love that flick. Oh and by the way, in case no-one heard, Indy IV sucked ass. Fuck you, Lucas. And my opinion on this ridiculous Valkyrie flick hasn't changed either. It's going to be so bad, they'll need to invent a new word for how bad it is. -
They really only need to use accents when they have have characters from different countries. It helps having accents in movies like Indiana Jones because it sets them apart, but its pointless in a movie like this where they are all playing Germans.
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Well if it's damage control, they took their sweet time getting it together. The bad buzz is months old and the film won't be here for months. Those Tom Cruise in the cockpit ads, now THAT'S damage control.
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Aug 08, 2008 10:14:21 AM CDT
In fact, I've decided. I AM going to use my enormous fortune
by hint_of_smegma
to travel across America, visiting every single theatre showing this dreck after it's release, and I'm going to take a shit in each screen showing it so that when the poor deluded fools enter in like the sheep they are to be brain-raped by Tommyboy, they get the visceral smell to go along with the turd onscreen. So there's no mistake about what they're watching. I'm providing a public service, folks.
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WTF!? Sean Connery is about the only actor who never bothered to do any accent EVER and after a while you know going in the Russian Submarine comander's gonna sound Scotch but imagine Christian Bale using his own Welsh Accent for Batman or Ewan McGreggor doing a Scottish Obi Wan Specially as the cast in this are more than capable of thesping a wee bit of hun into their act!I think Toms German voice must've been sooo shit the rest of the cast were all told not to show him up so now I have to sit in the theatre getting pissed off at the lack of decent line delivery until i 'Get used to it' !? WTF?
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Who do you think granted the first reach-around? I bet they make a cute couple.
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oh and now he decides to make a good movie? ass.
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How many people on here don't get the accent thing. It's not about absolute authenticity, it's about creating an illusion that makes it easier and more comfortable for the audience to fall into the story. It's simply there to make your imagination fire better and FEEL like its in Germany in WWII. Hearing guys speaking with proper British accents and the short one-eyed guy like he just got done riding a wave in Malibu does NOT inspire suspension of disbelief. I don't know why you can't understand that. Your arguments that they would actually be speaking German blah blah blah are illogical. It's like saying, why put blood on that actor when he gets shot? I mean, we all know he didn't really get shot, so what's the point? Why have the actors in the nude when they have a sex scene? We all know they're not really fucking, so why not do the scene in matching snowsuits? Why have Morgan Freeman play Nelson Mandela, why not Chevy Chase? We all know it's not really Mandela, might as well go for a smart-allecky "Fletch"-type portrayal. Rosie Perez as Betty Ford. Why not?? Seriously...try to apply some logic. It's all fantasy, it's all bullshit, and we all know that, but we want the ILLUSION of reality. Make sense?
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Blacks are still fucking poor, and Jews still control the wealth of nations.
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A pit full of cocks! He would dive in there Mission Impossible style and giggle and moan.
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White people aren't your enemy, but dumbfuck neocons like anchorite are.
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I case you hadn't noticed.
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I dig historical pictures. Also I hate this idea that subtitles ruin movies... It's called learning to read ass hole. Is the educational system that bad here? Holly shit I watch movies with subtitles easily and don't miss anything.
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The most hilarious thing about you is your hypocrisy. You say all sorts of totally racist stuff against blacks, nearly constantly, but get all bent out of shape when people say anything about jews. If you had ANY shread of credibility, you would be up in arms defending ANY minority who has been or is the victim of racism, bigotry, hate speech, what have you. But you are SO racist, so completely over-the-top hateful, that you can only see it when its directed at your own heritage. Your hate, your bigotry, has become a part of your being to such a crippling degree that you can't separate from it and look at yourself objectively. I mean, you said here that Barrack Obama is essentially a mix of George Jefferson and a gangsta rapper. Why? Because he's black. In your eyes, ALL black people are raging ghetto stereotypes, but then you completely lose your mind when anybody throws your hate back at you. You don't see your raging hypocrisy. THAT is why everybody here fucking hates you and tears you apart all the time. But I guess thats why you come here; desperate for attention, the only place anyone pays any attention to you at all is here. I feel sorry for you.
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I never said anything about reparations you deluded asshole. I'm just sick and fucking tired of seeing movies that elevate the historic suffering of Jews above everyone else who's suffered. These WW2 movies are made so we never forget the Holocaust, I understand and respect that, however, there's allot of other people who've suffered and their stories will never be told on the silver-screen. Slavery was a 1,000,000,000,000 times worst then the Holocaust. However, look how many movies and Oscars have been won that centers around WW2 and the Holocaust. Name one, just one fucking Oscar that has been won by someone making a movie about slavery? ****crickets****
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Just wondering.
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But it makes it easier to spot the idiots in life. If someone says, "I don't like subtitles" - you know you're hangin' out with an illiterate loser, ipso facto. There's no grey area there at all. I went to a movie recently where the ticket person made sure I knew it was subtitled. I asked why and she said people kept coming out and asking for their money back. What do you wanna' bet they all voted for Bush too?
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Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in Hollywood. I never said I hated any group or heritage.
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Who cares? I have no desire to see this movie. At all. It could be the Tom Cruise factor. It could be that I'm wary of Singer after Super-deadbeat-dad Returns. It could be that after a lifetime of having World War 2 movies shoved down my throat, I'm more than a little burnt out on the concept. I really just can't bring myself to give a rusty fuck about any more new World War 2 movies unless they're written & directed by Quentin Tarantino.
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Does Driving Miss Daisy count?
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But Morgan Freeman was robbed in the Oscars that year:)
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I didn't see your original posts. I was just commenting on what anchorite was saying. I apologize.
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you two should sit down and watching Driving Miss Daisy together. Old Jewish woman and here servile black male. you guys can suffer together. "we are the world..."
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You really are an atrocious moron.
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Good to see you again. I'm only giving those two kids shit. I hate all people equally, Especially rich white males.
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What is 100,000,000,000,000,000 worse? Maybe you can explain that to me. The "extermination" of six million Jews wasn't as bad as slavery? What measuring stick do you use for that? And why is one people's suffering have to be "better" than another's? Give it up, dude. Slavery has been dealt with in plenty of movies, as it should. The real question is what the fuck does one thing have to do with another? You think there is a limited pie of compassion out there, or you just wanna' be The Biggest Victim? And this film isn't about the Holocaust anyway! Jesus...this is just a stupid fucking argument. How about we all be human beings together? But hey, don't let me put a crimp in your Jew-hating conspiracy theories.
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I'm still waiting for you to explain exactly what the "external forces" were that "in part" forced poor Stalin to become the second biggest mass murderer of the 20th Century.
Let me guess -- Jews? -
If you hate Tom Cruise are you considered a Xenuphobe?
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...playing the zero-sum game. It's the cheapest political tactic in the solar system: no injustice is worth adressing until the greatest injustice of them all is rectified. And which injustice is that? Whatever the person in question feels like.
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capitalists. and i don't really think the jews are to blme for everything. i just said that to piss anchohead off. Israel on the other hand, and their lobby, is too blame for a lot of our problems. it just so happens alot of israel's policy dictated by jewish xenophobia.
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Which capitalists? And how were they exerting pressure on Stalin? And what kind of pressure makes a person feel that he has to kill millions of his own people?
Cretin. -
Too easy.
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What's "easy" is your endless string of cop-outs. As soon as you run out of your usual mouthpieced, Marxist-Leninist buzzwords you invariably show yourself to be as intellectually fatuous as you are morally bankrupt.
You've got nothing. -
MOVIE SOUNDS GOOD, THOUGH.
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then why did they have to hide it from The Dark Knight? Its been sitting in tin cans for almost 6 months, and will continue to sit in tin cans for another 5 months.
If its the next Saving Private Ryan (which was 5 minutes of glory and 85 minutes of card-board characters and hammy acting), then why are they hiding in tin cans until winter after the summer blockbusters are already gone? -
You don't know shit about me, you dry assfuck. Take your moral superiority and outrage someplace else you fucking pedantic piece of shit.
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we're all kinda better than you.
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Classic trashy british sit-com set in WW2 France. That's how to do accents with class. "I was pissing by the door when I heard two shats. You are holding in your hind a smoking goon. You are clearly the guilty potty."
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However, if you want to get specific. The Conservative number is 60 million. 60 million died during the Slavery Holocaust. And millions more were lost at sea.
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but will put it aside for Tropic Thunder. But ONLY Tropic Thunder.
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I know all I need to know about you, you amoral cocksucker.
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Glory didn't have shit do about Slavery. Glory was dealing with the issues of segregation, not the institution of slavery. Birth of a Nation was a fucking racist propaganda film that glorified the terrorist acts of the KKK. Your examples were completely moronic. But I'm still standing by original statement. The Holocaust wasn't the only atrocity to take place. So Hollywood should stop treating at such. And when will it be politically correct to tell Jews to get over it, just as most Americans tell blacks, to just "get over slavery". That's a valid fucking question.
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Bullshit. Show me statistics that say "most Americans" tell blacks to "get over" slavery.
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Aug 08, 2008 12:47:05 PM CDT
Oh I forget, any constructive critisism of Jews=Racist!
by ganymede3010
I'm done with this fucking conversation since no one is being intellectually honest.
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Anchorite, you are the king of hypocrisy. Its great to see you get all outraged about anti-semites, but are just fine with racist statments made against blacks. Like, you're crazy about the evils of the Holocaust, but seem just fine with the slavery, lynchings, hangings, shootings of blacks that went on for HUNDREDS OF YEARS in the US. You are a fucking RAGING hypocrite.
Btw, hypocrite, when are you going to enlist in the Endless War you seem so keen on? Let me guess, never? I suppose you have no problem with letting a bunch of black guys fight it for you then? BGAWWWWWWK! CHICKEN HAWK! -
You want intellectual honesty? How about your provide those statistics I just asked for to back up that outrageous statement.
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Take a look at this poll. What a fucking disgrace. http://redblueamerica.com/poll/2008-03-28/poll-should-united-states-apologize-slavery-2078
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I don't have the numbers your asking Ganymede for, but anecdotally, most of my white friends, most of the people I grew up with, voiced the sentiment that blacks need to get over slavery. Again, nothing scientific about this, but in my neighborhood growing up, that was he majority opinion. I have no idea what the statistics nationwide would be, but I bet they're high.
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Holy shit! 66%?! Yeah, I'd say that pretty much exposes the underlying racism that permeates the US.
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Those are in no way or form statistics which back up your assertion that "most Americans" tell blacks they should "get over slavery".
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http://www.examiner.com/a-606492~Apologize_for_slavery__Take_the_poll.html
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How the hell is this asshole not banned yet?
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66% of the readers of redblueamerica.com saying America shouldn't have to apologize for slavery isn't the same as racism.
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having fun yet? good. because your are about to receive TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION.
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For your link posts.
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DocPaz, excuse me, but that IS racism; it shows that the majority of the country is racist or has racist opinions. I mean how could see it any other way? Having the opinion that the US did NOTHING WRONG when they used blacks as slave labor is the very definition of racist ideology -- it was okay to dehumanize this people and use them as slave labor, lynch, and murder them for hundreds of years! How is that not racist?! HOW? I'm actually kind of shocked at you, the guy all bent out of shape about people excusing Stalin for his atrocities. Seriously, man, thats pretty hypocritical.
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That Examiner poll is really scary. That is a tabloid style freepaper here in DC that many blacks read. Very surprised at those results.
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...might be gay. Also, Spike Lee is probably gonna have a fit over this because there aren't any black people in the movie...that being said, I'll wait for the DVD on this one. Also, can a person actually get BANNED from this website? Like has it happened to anybody? Everyone is like, "oh, prepare to be banned..." like, for real? Seriously? I didn't see any terms or conditions when I signed up.
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While there are doubtless racists among them there are plenty of people who find slavery repugnant but don't feel that an apology is constructive or that the fact that the Union fought a Civil War to a great extent against the idea of slavery is enough. There are also people who feel apologies should be issued only for oppression and injustices committed within the Union SINCE the Civil War, and there are also those who feel that reparations should only be paid to the descendants of those injustices and not those committed during slavery.
See what I'm getting at here? There's a lot of nuance here and screaming "racist" at people who feel that there are other ways to right the balance is foolish and inaccurate.
Also, there is nothing in those statistics which states that "most Americans" feel blacks should "get over slavery". -
Aug 08, 2008 1:15:50 PM CDT
Jew Hunter is the name of a character in 'Inglorious Bastards'
by carmillavondoom
Talk about a handle designed to piss people off though. Have fun getting banned.
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Chillax. I wouldn't take it that far. What the poll says is that people here and now don't want or feel they need to take responsibility for what happened to Blacks in the past. It's still shitty and exposes some latent racism or prejudice, but it's doesn't say peopel think slavery is ok.
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Historically, it was without a doubt one of the most horrific undertakings of all time. It has to be said, though, that the tragedy was a HUMAN one, not just against Jewish people but many others. It is estimated that 12 million people died in the machinery of the camp system; 6 million of them were Jews. A majority for sure, but the holocaust certainly doesn't 'belong' to Jews the way that slavery in the U.S. 'belongs' to Blacks. Just imho.
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I totally respect the right of anybody to say whatever the hell they want to say...that includes Jew Hunter, LaserPants, HoboCode, Doc Pazuzu, the Dickblood guy, republican, democrat, left, right, black, white, gay, straight, racist, Paris Hilton, anti-semetic, hispanic, weed-head, fat, skinny...everyone is different and everyone has different opinions about everything and they should all be heard in my opinion...if they can be made humorous then that's even better...I have a great big sense of humor and I can appreciate a good joke or a far-out statement...actually, the more outrageous and challenging it is, the funnier I seem to find it. Too many people are trying to silence others simply because they don't like what they have to say or disagree with it...I get on these talkbacks to read around and be entertained and I usually am...I don't get offended by anything.
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Is written by the oppresors not the oppresed.
By the way fuck Tom Cruise an his whole... intergalactic shite. -
Your antics in the Lethal Weapon 5 talkback along with jew hunter are indefensible -- simple as that. Don't give us that bullshit that everyone should be able to say whatever they want in any arena. The fact is there are plenty of racist websites you and your scumbag buddies can hang out in with nobody banning you. In here we prefer not to have to deal with fucksticks like you, no matter what our other differences may be.
In other words, fuck off. -
Now, I didn't go to the same "Ivey (sic) League college" as some people, but please, hear me out. I have no problem with films that don't employ accents. Some are great, some not so much. My original thought was that if Tom Cruise is still looking for that Oscar, then adopting an accent is a good way to go. If the accent plays then it will enhance the performance, if it sucks... Tom Cruise is notorious for a lot of things and one of those things is his high level of commitment to his craft. Obviously, it was a directorial decision and the results remain to be seen.
Sweet Sassy Molassey, how did this innocent little talkback get so political? -
It was fought to preserve the Union. The abolition of slavery was a bi-product of that, it was NEVER the main goal. Hell, Abraham Lincoln himself said he never thought that blacks were equal in status to whites. It was, however, a great way to destabilize the economy of the South -- to eliminate their ability to use free labor. I mean come on, Doc, you're smarter than that. You should know your american history.Oh, heres a choice quote from Abraham Lincoln himself. Enjoy!
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."
Wow. What a humanitarian. -
Sometimes I like to make statements just to get a reaction and it usually works...these would be the "antics" to which you refer. It obviously works as several of you talkbackers are...quite easily provoked; your reactions are quite entertaining and at the very least I can say that I have not wished any harm on any single talkbacker in here not will I ever...also, I usually keep myself from using the types of "four-letter" words which some others do (like yourself), unless it is to make a humorous comment or to prove some kind of point...never against a fellow talkbacker. Nor would I ever wish harm on another as some did in the Leathal 5 talkback (I believe it was cancer which they wanted me to suffer from)...how do you know I don't already suffer from cancer? This kind of sensibility is alright? Justified? Whereas a simple statement about an issue at hand - a collection of words about a greater subject is worthy of being "banned?"
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Are you familiar with the term "straw man argument"? Look it up.
One of the integral parts of the Union which was to be preserved was the abolition of slavery in all states. The South broke free to preserve their slave economy. If the abolition of slavery weren't such a big thing to the Union, they wouldn't have pushed the issue in order to preserve the Union as the Confederacy would never have formed in protest. No matter how you slice it, slavery was THE big issue of the Civil War.
There was still segregation in many parts of America during WWII. Does this mean America shouldn't have fought the Axis along with its allies? -
Don't try to compare me calling you a "fuckstick" to your use of the word "nigger" in the Lethal Weapon TB. You're full of shit.
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But I can also find other quotes attributed to Lincoln that show a different picture:"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, (August 1, 1858?), p. 532.I'm by no means saying he's a humanitarian, but one can throw around many quotes to try and make oneself 'right'.And I think you, Doc, Gany, Node, have all valid points. I firmly believe that racism is alive and well within America, perhaps not out and out demonstrative as it was in the past. But it is most definitely there. Fuck, I wish an apology was all it took to eliminate racism. It could be argued that since the government is supposed to be for the people, by the people, that it is that very people that should apologize, regardless of when it happened. I understand where both sides to this are coming from. While we are not responsible for prior acts of racism/slavery, etc, there's no doubt we have the responsibility to fight it now. I seriously hope that fuckheads like Jew Hunter and Bonzai are the extreme minority.BTW, I realize you were the subject line Laserpants, but my little spiel was directed only at you. I apologize if it seems so.
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I never said I had statistics that showed most Americans feel blacks should get over slavery. That was Ganymede. I do know that the prevailing opinion in my neighborhood growing up was that blacks should "get over it." Something tells me my neighborhood wasn't the only one who felt that way, though I do not have the data to back it up. However, I do think that these statistics reveal that the supposition Ganymede made originally is correct. I mean, clearly a person who thinks that the US shouldn't apologize also thinks there is nothing wrong with slavery, and ergo, blacks should "get over it." I mean, I don't think thats making too much of a leap, do you? I mean, really?
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Damn.
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i like how you showed up just as jew hunter requested your dink ass. i bet you guys wear the same pants. maybe you'll get a two for one special today on TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION.
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Thats "revisionist history." You know what that is? Look it up. The civil war was fought to preserve the Union, not to end slavery. Period. Ending slavery was good tactics, it was used to great ends -- destabilizing the Southern economy -- but it was never a matter of humanitarinism and it wasn't the big issue of the war. Preserving the Union was the big issue of the war, and only revisionists believe otherwise. Again, please refer to Lincoln's quote above. You're welcome.
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That's a GARGANTUAN leap of logic. Are you seriously claiming that if someone doesn't feel that an official apology from the United States government is the constructive, correct or relevant way to deal with the past that that person is a racist?
What about all those other examples I mentioned? What about blacks who don't feel an apology or even reparations are the right way of going about it? Are they racist too? Or just "uncle toms"?
Try not to be so myopic. -
The Union could have been preserved without abolishing slavery thus preventing the deaths of hundreds of thousands and weakening the nation for decades. It would have made much more sense for a pragmatic Union if they hadn't pushed for abolition.
The only example of revisionism here is yours.
As for Lincoln, look up "straw man argument" like I said.
Again I ask you: did the segregated America that fought WWII have no moral authority in facing down the Axis? -
I still can't get my head around the fact that you actually said that if someone doesn't think an apology is the right measure, then that person thinks slavery is okay.
That's.... mind-boggling. -
...the word "nigger" because there is a type of "nigger" to every race. There are black people and then there are "niggers." There are white people and then there are "crackers/trailer trash." There are hispanics and then there are "spics." Hell, there's even a difference between being gay and being a fag. If you ask me what I think about Bill Cosby or Will Smith or Barack Obama...I would say that they are intelligent, accomplished, well-educated African American gentlemen...if you ask me what I think about Lil Wayne...I'll say he's a nigger. I have black friends and they are great people...the kind of people that someone like myself would appreciate hanging out with...they are not "niggers" but they along with myself acknowledge that there is a certain line which is crossed way too often that turns a person into a "nigger" or a "hick" or a "spic." Every race has their "low-class" type and that is what I was reffering to. It's just like the old Chris Rock routine...only when he speaks of such matters it's ok because he's black...it's a double standard which should be broken down in my opinion...also, how do you guys know that I myself am not black, or a jew, or gay for that matter? You jump to conclusions simply according to what you've been spoon-fed since you were children. Now, take a look at the statement that I just made...do you see any insults towards anybody in there? No way. I can have a civil discourse without resulting to childish remarks or statements with the purpose of insulting. Also, you guys came after ME on this talkback...my first post was a clean jab at the topic of discussion and an honest question albeit stated with a somewhat sarcastic tone.
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Is it really? To assume that people who don't see anything wrong with the enslavement of a race just might be racists? Really? Are you sure? Is it that much of a "gargantuan" leap? Or are you just trying to protect your rhetorical ass with overblown hyperbole because it was just handed to you by data you asked Ganymede to show you? I mean, really now, Doc, please. Its okay to back down and admit that you may be wrong. There is no shame in this. In fact, its quite noble.
In terms of the hypothetical blacks who disagree with the apology, maybe they just don't see the point? Oh well. They're entitled to their opinion. Although I haven't yet heard that opinion voiced either in my family or in the community I work, I suppose it must exist somewhere. Like maybe under a rock? In a dream?
Try not to be so blind. -
Are you being willfully dumb? Of course if someone thinks slavery is okay they're racist. When have I said otherwise? what you said, on the other hand, is that the lack of belief in an apology is equal to racism.
Ganymede did not provide any hard data to back up his claim that "most Americans" think blacks should "get over slavery". -
I hate to agree with CockSpaz here but you ARE reaching. He didn't say that people who don't see anything wrong with slavery aren't racist. He said that people who don't feel they need to give an official public apology for slavery are not neccessarily racist.
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I have to agree that many people probably do hold this viewpoint. I grew up in Ohio, and not even a rural part, and the prevailing thought then was that Blacks do need to "just get over it."
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The war was not fought over slavery. Period. It was fought to preserve the Union. Period. The emancipation of the slaves was a tactic to help destabilize the Southern economy, a great political move because it cast the Union in a more positive light that it might have been otherwise. Period. It was ancillary of the goal. I mean, hey it worked out, but there was no humanitarian mission there -- it was just good strategy. Again, see the quote above. Its not really strawman argument if the man said it and believed it. I mean, c'mon, now, don't be silly. Its okay to admit you're wrong. Really, its okay.
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If you use the words "nigger", "spic", "kike" or others like it in your everyday language then you are a "cunt".
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You are one of the worse types on these boards. You try and rationalize your usage of a word -that most if not all decent people find highly offensive. You say you were only referring to a specific type of black, well who gave you the authority to differentiate between what you consider a " African American gentlemen" and a black person worthy of the disgusting sobriquet you recklessly throw around? No, not once did you ever try and create this so called distinction until you started backpedalling. Even so, you have said other things that brand you a racist. Remember the comment about everyone should be able to 'own' a Black? If I may borrow a line from the LiberalWarrior, You are a racist piece of baboon shit.
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The "straw man" in this case was you acting as if I had claimed Lincoln was some kind of saint, after which you provided a quote to show how "wrong" I was.
Lame.
You're so off the mark when it comes to the Civil War that I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Each time I've pointed why it would have made more sense to ignore the issue of slavery in order to preserve the Union, you have ignored it, as you have ignored my twice (now third) asked question about WWII-era America. -
Are YOU being willfully dumb? Or just playing rhetorical games? The lack of belief in an apology for slavery points to an underlying racism. It implies that 66% of the country believes there is nothing wrong with what happened and, ergo, no apology is needed.
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No, I get your point -- that you are more "civilized" because you don't call people profane things.
You racist cunt. -
That was joke...I like jokes...admittedly, it was a joke at the expense of black people, but jokes are always at the expense of someone or something. I thought it was funny. I guess, you didn't...but that's ok because sometimes it's alright for people to have different senses of humor...also, I don't have to be givne authority from anyone in order to hold an opinion on what I feel (that's opinion talk right there) is a distinction between different types of people. You have your own opinions as does everyone else in here and I more than respect your opinion as you are entitled to it.
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No, it does not. The question asked was if an apology should be made. In no way could the respondents explain their answers or add other options which they may have felt were better than an apology.
Again, I must refer you to the examples I listed of various reasons why people could have answered that way.
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What did you just look up "strawman" recently? I provided the Lincoln quote to show you, and all of those not aware, that Lincoln was not interested in freeing the slaves as a humanitarian goal. Also, to illustrate, that the goal of the Civil War was the preserve the Union, not to free the slaves. Period. And that is the fucking truth, no matter how much you want it to be otherwise. I never said anything about him being a saint or a sinner, I just said that there was nothing humanitarian about it, that emancipation was not THE issue, nor was it the goal of the fucking Civil War. The ONLY goal of the Civil War was to preserve the Union. PERIOD! Thats it! Stop believing in the dream, start reading about the reality. Thanks.
Oh, and if you are going to tear up, do it as the expense of your own historical ignorance. -
I have a friend who doesn't believe in an apology for slavery, yet is very vocal about both an apology and reparations paid to African-Americans today for injustices they suffered during the 20th Century.
Is she a racist? -
...you seem to be preoccupied with the word "cunt"...is this something that reverts back to your childhood? Perhaps? Also, are you being accused of being a racist because of something having to do with the issue of slavery in the United States?
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Show me one single white opponent of slavery among the founding fathers who also believed in true racial equality. By our standards they were racist but they opposed slavery on moral grounds all the same.
Your Lincoln quote proves nothing. -
It was not fought over the freedom of the slaves, but was fought over slavery. That is a distinction that must be appreciated. The North and South were at odds for decades. The South was envious of the economic and political power of the North, and aggreived over the perception of the South as backwards, sadists. The expansion westward, was the tipping point. Both slave and anti-slave movements believed that if slavery were prevented in the new territories, slavery in the south would eventually wither. Slavery meant money, meant culture. The south wanted to secede long before the civil war. In fact Lincoln's election pushed the south into almost open conflict because the leaders knew he would never permit slavery in the new territories. Lincoln did not want a civil war. If he could have kept the south in check, and allowed them to keep slavery, without expansion, he would have done so. His hand was forced though when the south declared independance. The war was fought over slavery, but not the slaves themselves.
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1) The WWII America question?
2) The fact that abolishing slavery complicated preserving the Union?
I eagerly await your replies. -
She doesn't believe in an apology but is vocal about what? that there should be one? That makes no sense.
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She believes that an apology and reparations should be paid for injustices committed during the 20th Century, but not for slavery.
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Oh. It was 'joke'? Well, that clears that up. Yes, indeedy. And of course all the other remarks denigrating blacks, er, excuse me, the specific 'type' of black person that you and you alone deem worthy of receiving the sobriquet in question, because it is your opinion after all, all those remarks should just be considered appropriate because you deem it so. Even though most decent people of all races, would be opposed to your opinion. Well, my opinion is that you are a racist piece of baboon shit.
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...add just one more thing to toadkillerdog's post to you:
You're a cunt. -
...I think that you sir or madam, are of the same caliber of person which you are clearly trying rile against for you see...you look down upon baboon shit which let me tell you, is quite underrated, and yet you refuse to see this because of your blind hatred/dislike of myself. You have become exactly what you were fighting against, or seemingly thought you were fighting against. It's ok though, because I respect your opinion about baboon shit as it is your right to hold it.
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In your case, baboon shit is highly overrated.
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...I like you. Let's be Aint It Cool News talkback friends!
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...about this review is that the reviewer pretty much lays out the entire movie. Plants never do that.
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I encountered an australian girl who looked like sloth on yahoo! live. Fact.
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and made him into a stalker and not have anyone interesting to fight.
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Guys this is absolutely correct. The American Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was fought over state's rights
Specifically over whether or not States had the right to allow human beings to own other human beings as slaves.
Yeah yeah I know its such an insignificant difference, but Southern Hillibillys are pretty insistent that we clarify this insignificance. -
damn wrong page
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You do seem to have a degree of intelligence, unlike the spewing Jew Hunter. But if you enjoy pushing peoples buttons just to get off on their reactions, you really need a hobby.
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...you're probably right...I should get a hobby.
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"Folks who have seen near-complete cuts of Valkyrie tell me the movie is a tight, suspenseful, well-made Nazi-esque version of Mission: Impossible without the spy gadgets. Director Bryan Singer (Superman Returns, X-Men) manages to keep you on the edge of your seat, even though you know Hitler survived the attempt ... Will whatever virtues the film has be enough to overcome our last image of Cruise in that gosh-awfully over-verbose excuse for a movie, Lions for Lambs? ... As for Valkyrie, "if you give them a good film, the public will forgive anything you've done in the past," says my friend the marketing whiz."
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this is like a role call of people who have just flown off the handle and started abusing me. docpazzu rebek2 delpma. It's not revisionist to say the civil war was about a constitutional argument. The original constitution was clear that most power lay with the states, the federal govt only had limited power. This was upheld by presidents such as jackson who, after a supreme court decision went against a state, he commented that the judge could go and enforce it himself. it was not till the gettysburg address that slavery was to be ended. The main point was that the states felt that the federal govt was taking powers not given it by the constitution and so they decided to leave the union. think about this. most people who fought for the south did not have slaves, only the minority did. for a non slave holder it is bad if other people have slaves. we use capital and labour to create output. where there is not much capital, the return on capital is greater and the return on labour is less and vice versa. as someone selling your labour, you don't want to live in a country that has slavery. slavery was against the interests of most who fought for the south, particularly given they had no slaves.there really is no need to be so rude to each other, for crying out loud. and don't take the above as being for slavery or anything stupid like that, it is disgusting. and also yes i think one can make a movie about the second world war without being guilty about not making a movie about slavery straight after
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and i would agree with that. the issue at hand, the tipping point was slavery. which is obviously totally wrong
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Subway makes great sandwiches.
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I'm with others who've written that accents in films DO matter. A whole fucking lot, in fact. I just watched the HBO series "John Adams" on DVD, and was struck by the care every actor, including the young children, put into speaking like early Americans. This wasn't something they HAD to do, of course, but damn I enjoyed it so much more without the distraction of bad diction.
I was a fan of Singer's "Usual Suspects" and a lesser fan of "X-men." "Superman Returns," however, was one of the biggest piles of garbage I've ever seen. Thus I'm skeptical of Singer now. I question his decision-making and wonder whether he's completely lost it. I hope not, but he'll have to have to hit one out of the park to lessen my skepticism.
If German accents aren't ADR-ed into the film, I'm going to skip "Valkyrie" entirely. That's how much the first trailer made me wince. I was actually embarrassed for Singer.
Get your shit together, Bryan, and don't puss out on the details that create drama. American and British accents saturating a serious film about Nazis is laughable. Case in point: "Schindler's List." Did even one character speak with a non-German accent in that film? No. But imagine if they had. Tension destroyed. Foreign atmosphere annihilated. Jewish Holocaust survivors shaking their heads.
Do the right thing, Bryan. Go with accents. It'll make a huge difference. -
Didgeridoo, for all his seeming sincerity, sounds fake to me. He geeked out, sure, but in ways that corporate lackeys are want to do. I call bullshit.
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Oy vey!
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Read your quote again. What Businessweek did is report that people have praised the movie. No Businessweek writer has seen it, because Valkyrie sucks and only United Artist's studio shills have seen it ... hey, like the plant who wrote the story. I hope you're better at blackjack than you are at reading comprehension.
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than in the Holocaust, and I include the forgotten GENTILES that were also murdered by Hitler. That's right, not only Jews were victims. DUURRRR
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In Schindler's List, the characters weren't all German. The ones portraying Germans spoke with German accents so that they would sound different from the Poles, Czechs, etc.
Using German accents in a film with only German characters is completely retarded. -
You don't see them making 100000 movies about the Rape of Nanking, do you?
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...it's not a Holocaust movie.
As for your death toll figure, it's more along the lines of 1.5 to 3 million dead (conservative estimates say 500,000 to 750,000). However, Mao did kill more of his own people than Hitler and Stalin combined during his rule so I'm nitpicking, really. -
...SHOULD make a million movies about Nanking.
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I stand corrected - but this movie looks damned silly. Where are the German accents?!?!
Also, did you know Adolph Eichmann waqs Jewish? -
He had a stepmother who had Jewish relations. He even visited Palestine -- also irrelevant.
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HoboCode ?
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Just throwing some trivia out there ...
Hey Doc - you watch the Olympics? -
Because taking Palestine and the creation of Israel was the goal of the Holocaust - to create the base for the One World Government with Jerusalem as the capital.
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It's just one of many anchors holding blacks from moving forward. Slavery was horrible but we need to deal with the present day and future.
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Aug 08, 2008 8:09:36 PM CDT
BESIDES, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION WAS A MANNER OF REPARATIONS
by bringingsexyback
and we all know how well that worked out. Time to moveon.org.
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A bunch of murderous Middle Eastern terrorist thugs smash themselves into towers, & wipe out 3,000 + lives, and ' the world changed ' ( enough of a justification to piss on all rules and decencies such as the Geneva Convention, and bomb any nation as necessary ). Yet when millions of a people have had their lives razed to the ground for several hundreds of years, whose heavy ramifications and psychological damage reverberate to this day ( i.e. the African situation, mayhem in the ghettos ) , and the perpetuators of which still benefit ( as in the bussinesses and conglomerates who have gotten rich of this enterprise, and continue to feed off of that to this day ), these people are expected to just ' suck it up ' ?!? Come on.
Now, I'm not suggesting a similar ' scorched earth ' policy; much less that of taking it out on any other enemies you can name EXCEPT the actual direct perpetuators, and those who have aided and abetted them ( which, by definition would constitute as the maniacal, racist and bigoted behavior ). But an ' official apology ' wouldn't be so damn bad, would it ? Is it a painful act ? Is it going to destroy American values. And it wouldn't be enough. Damaged parties get properly compensated all the time, and put through therapy, and genocide is just something to be sweeped under the rug. So, no. Not even a formal admittance of grave error here that's universally recognized ? Daaammmmnnnn. Get over your arrogance and egoism, step to the plate, and OWN UP, and they can ' get over the slavery '. But then again, those 9-11 victims DIDN'T get enough compensation either.
Not when you got that homicidal oilman upstairs who is clearly on the take. Lotsa people else also went on exploiting their all-too-real grief to unleash out their pent up murderous power fantasies onto the planet enough to care where heads should rather be at.
At least Iraq got Haliburton, which is BULLSHIT. -
You wrote "Using German accents in a film with only German characters is completely retarded." Ok, I understand your point. But I disagree. Without German accents, these characters lose a sense of German-ness that might otherwise exist. Tom Cruise speaking American English as a high-ranking Nazi officer is just Tom Cruise speaking English. It's what he always does. It's boring and smacks of laziness. More importantly, the dramatic elements of the film lose some punch when you constantly have to remind yourself he's German, not an American playing a Nazi.
And are you sure there aren't characters in "Valkyrie" that aren't German? The French waitress? The Czech baggage handler? I say it's horrible idea to have high-ranking Nazi officers speak with non-German accents. Just my opinion. -
Didn't we get a Holocaust movie, like, last year?
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HE'S STILL A DAMN GOOD ACTOR
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Reparations , like affirmative action, is not a ' cure all ', it's simply JUSTICE. Might as well get rid of the ' lawsuit ' and ' damages ', if it's not going to apply to everybody.
And the black people who think otherwise are not racist, they're just INEPT. Well-educated, improved, and decent African Americans don't have to suffer their clear distinct lack of self-respect. That's just the death kneel of civilization right there, really. PONY UP, BITCHES. -
Reparations , like affirmative action, is not a ' cure all ', it's simply JUSTICE. Might as well get rid of the ' lawsuit ' and ' damages ', if it's not going to apply to everybody.
And the black people who think otherwise are not racist, they're just INEPT. Well-educated, improved, and decent African Americans don't have to suffer their clear distinct lack of self-respect. That's just the death kneel of civilization right there, really. PONY UP, BITCHES. -
since the last time I was on Canal Street. Damn!
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Aug 08, 2008 8:23:54 PM CDT
THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON SLAVERY HAS EXPIRED!!!!!
by bringingsexyback
and so has the one on the Holocaust!!!!!! Moveon.org!
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A sense of "Germaness" is also obtained by the characters wearing correct SS and Wermacht uniforms. Showing title cards that say things like Berlin 1944. Period clothing and references all can add to the sense of realisim without resorting to having English speaking characters trying to sport an accent, especially a German accent. Germanic accents are hard to pull off. The speaker usually ends up sounding like an Agent of KAOS from the old Get Smart TV show or an extra from Spring Time for Hitler.
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Aug 08, 2008 8:25:44 PM CDT
WE GOT BIGGER FISH TO DRY THAN DWELLING ON SLAVERY AND HOLOCAUST
by bringingsexyback
Open your eyes! The Illuminati Zionist Satanist Antichrists are creating a One World Government, and you're worried about shit that happened 150 years ago?!
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I'm sorry!!!!
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If you need to feed your anti-Nazi fetish, look no further than the definitive film on the subject - Black Book.
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Now we're talking, Petey.
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I see no mention of him on Valkyrie's IMDB profile. A shame if he was omitted, having been forced to suicide over suspected involvement in what I assume to be the plot this film details.
Also, a good example of the strange dichotomy existing in those who served the German cause and fought under the swastika, without ever truly swearing philosophical allegiance to Nazism. -
Aug 08, 2008 8:31:19 PM CDT
DID YOU SEE BUSH HAVING A LAUGH WITH PUTIN AT THE OLYMPICS
by bringingsexyback
while Russia is invading Georgia? That's what Antichrists do - they frolic with glee while innocents die.
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And BSB, AA is only applies to government jobs and contracts, not in the private sector. So answer this, blacks are 12% of the population, about 2% of them work for the Government. So you're making a big stretch when insinuate AA is equivalent to reparations. And one last thing BSB, name one prominent black politician that's campaigning for reparations. ****CRICKETS****
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"Highway to the Nazi zone" indeed. Thank Christ my boss didn't hear me laughing.
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Do you know what's in store for black people if the Illuminati establish the North American Union? Well let me tell you.
If you think Blacks are at the bottom now, oh nigga, wait until our economy continues to merge with Mexico's. Bush trade secretary, in an extended interview on NPR, said that with regards to immigration, we need MORE migrant workers from Mexico. Yes, he said MORE. Because our economy "needs low skilled" workers to work our farms, and if they don't our farms will be outsourced to Mexi-fucking-co.
At the same damn time, our unemployment rate is rising, (with a large percentage of the unemployed being black). Asked about this obvious contradiction of high unemployment and need for labor, all this Bush antichrist lackey could say was that those jobs are low-skilled and the unemployed are educated.
So do you see what Bush is doing? He's trying to merge our economy with Mexico's by a massive influx of illegal, cheap, practically slave-wage labor, and eventually through a linkage of infrastructure, too.
And once that's accomplished, blacks will be in the worse position by far, when even the American middle class has been destroyed.
Reparations? Holocaust? Give me a break, your future is pretty bleak - never mind your past. Even middle class Jews should be concerned because the Zionists don't regard them as original Jews. Obvously, since they were made to be sacrificial lambs for the greater cause of creating Israel. -
However, there's a positive element to this equation. We'll get to lay hot Brazillian chics without the hassle of getting a greencard:)-
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But the Illuminati will keep the hot Brazilian chicks for their own slave pool. We don't get shit.
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Agree with your comment at the top strange how others mentioned the delays yet yours was the only to ilicit a reply from BigHarry himself.
I thinks the Xenu ref was whats did it.Oh this movie will suck Xenu dick no doubt about it -
HEIL!
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You wrote "A sense of "Germaness" is also obtained by the characters wearing correct SS and Wermacht uniforms." I'll agree with this, but only conditionally. People wear fake German uniforms all the time and no one knows they're fake. I, for example, wouldn't know whether someone was wearing a real or a studio reconstructed German uniform in a movie. Maybe you could, but I bet 98% of the people of there couldn't tell the difference.
Whereas I can always tell when I hear a poor German accent. It's not terribly hard to speak with a convincing German accent, expecially for actors trained to do such a thing. It's true comically exaggerated German accents like those of KAOS agents are out there too, but lots of good actors have pulled off convicing facsimiles in their performances. It's not hard. It just takes some effort. But, of course, Tom Cruise has never played a character with an accent ever. Not once.
Coincidence? -
white people white people white people! Then you ask me to relax? How? By offering me some of your delicious cuisine? What? Meat and two veg? (We got gravy!) 'Cause you're so cool? Yeah, you're SO hip-hop! You're so Zen! I thought I was in the friggin' Clone Wars when all those Asians were beating them drums in the Olympic stadium! That's how rare it is to for me to see so many other Asians. Have a nice day, honky. Your pal, Rommel.
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Didn't Cruise do a southern accent in All The Right Moves?
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I do remember he had an accent in Far and Away.
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in Far and Away ... maybe it was a good idea he stuck with Americanese.
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Apatow had picked on our friend Mohammed Was A Butt-Fucking Pedophile III here, he would've had a fatwa jihad declared on him in an instant. Disaster .. averted.
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But he likes guys a lot younger than me. Which is also a lot younger than him. That's it. Nothing to say about Valkyrie. Although I love Superman Returns. And I'd like to fuck him too. Bah-zing.
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Superman? Do gay people do that? Is there a name for this practice?
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That practice is called "The Australian Crawl".
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The point of my post was that the audience will accept the actors as German because they see them on the screen in uniforms or appropriate period clothing. An accent is not needed to show that the actors are German, especially since they are talking in English. The audience understands that the characters are actually speaking German. Also my friend I'm not sure if I have ever heard a convincing German accent but I'm willing to concede the point because somebody will point out so and so in some movie and I'l then go Duh how could I forget that.
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I mean this in a postive way but did you suffered a major head wound while on your honeymoon? Because you are getting really wierd.
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rommel was elsewhere. he was kinda in the know but did not really participate. it is true he had to kill himself because of it.
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German guy, but I've been saying to my wife how strangely 'stereotypically German' not just his accent but the timbre of his voice is. Yes, he sounds like a Kaos agent.
Or Benny Hill doing his German shtik. Crazy! -
A person who, while watching Valkyrie, either forgets Cruise's character is a German or is otherwise confused by the historical facts being played out on screen, is too fucking stupid to be let out of the house without a helmet.
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Slavery couldn't have been abolished without preserving the Union. That South Carolina seceded was a preemptive measure based on their desire to preserve their state's right to retain slavery.
No matter what was said by Lincoln at what stage, and no matter what deals were struck with border states, the overriding goal of the preserved union was to end slavery.
Circular arguments can be trotted out where the timeline of officially stated policies are shown as proof that slavery was a minor issue, but the fact is that it was the most immediate goal of the preserved union -- regardless of what Lincoln said to soothe the fears of the general populace in certain states where fear of emancipated blacks was strong. -
Wasn't a bad film, it was a very good movie in the vein of films they stopped making in the early 80's because they were rubbish.
As a homage to the style of the superman movies it was spot on so I didn't hate it, I mildly found it entertaining, not great but not bad. -
I'm laughing damn hard at your assessment of people "being too fucking stupid to be let out of the house without a helmet". This visual could be the basis for a television pilot.
Both you and Xiphos have made solid arguments as to why German accents aren't necessary for "Valkyrie" to be good. I'll concede your points and try to keep an open mind.
And maybe use the visual of a man so fucking stupid he needs a helmet to exist as inspiration for a Comedy Central pitch. Thanks for that. -
Hey man ... I recently went through a voyage of discovery on the topic of New World Order. The recent Religion talkback exacerbated my seeking out more information.
If only out of curiosity, if you open your mind to the mere possibility of these secretive dealings shaping our world and look at current events through that prism, a lot of things make sense where they didn't before. Everything from trade, immigration, war, economy ... everything.
For starters, if you're curious, check out on Google video the documentary "Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement" and this website: http://www.illuminati-news.com/mission-statement.htm ...
RIP Bernie Mac -
thats a damn shame. now there is a comedian who's death IS a shame.
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Who's the next two to go. This ain't right America. I loved his show because he didn't take crap from the kids like you see in so many sitcoms today. Bernie was a genius.
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Who wouldn't pay to see Cruise, Nighy, Wilkinson, and Stamp.
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Losing too much talent...
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The last movie I can think of that had so many issues and pulled out the win was Titanic. Can Valkyrie be something similar? Don't know.
The movie sounds interesting. Then again the topic always was interesting. It's the delivery that will determine how good or bad it is. -
Alex Jones you're basing this new run of nonsense on Alex Jones? Shakes head and walks away. Thats just sad to hear. You hold some really goofy opinions but I never took you for a scared little person living your life in fear.Please hold off on the Alex Jones Defense. I've heard him for years on Coast to Coast AM and I've seen info wars and prison planet I'm familiar with his brand of BS. Answer this one question for me without recycling Jones defense. If Alex Jones is such the scourge(his words) of the Bilderbergers and the Bilderbergers bosses, the all powerfull Illuminati, why is still alive?Check that never mind. I'm not even going to bother.
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wouldve called you all niggers. and byrd would have called you white niggers. and both would have been in ss uniforms trying to sprichen der whateverthefuck. you know. to better immerse you.
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I can't quite get past my knee jerk reaction of doing a spit take every time I see Tom Cruise dressed like a nazi with an eye patch.
Maybe I can desensitize myself by the time the movie comes out by looking at it every other day...but I doubt that will be enough.
The cast is amazing. The plot sounds good. BUT when 1 nazi has an American accent surrounded by British and German accents.. thats distracting. This isn't an episode of Sliders or Quantum Leap.. I expect more realism from this subject manner.
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studios always try to keep storylines secret, scripts printed on special paper so it can't be copied, actors only getting to read they're own parts, security guards on set... yet, they are happy to write a review giving away the entire story to a website that has in the past been blamed for ruining a movies chance at success. Yet still some declare that early positive reviews are the work of a plant...
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The story is true...and it's about ww2, it can't be all that bad.
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Oct 15, 2008 6:20:19 AM CDT
"If you’re gonna be purist about it, they’d be speaking German"
by hoisin
WTF?! How can you have a film about German soldiers when they use American accents?
What an American thing to say!
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